Uh, the wiki seems to be experiencing technical difficulties right now.
I think they do mean that, it's super frequent right now.Uh, the wiki seems to be experiencing technical difficulties right now.
....By which I take it you don't mean 'random pages 404'ing when clicked on' yeah?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't have it -> EVIL creatures skipped. If they have it, evil creatures with SLOW_LEARNER or without CAN_LEARN will be also available as pets (with PET), pack animals (with PACK_ANIMAL), wagon pullers (with WAGON_PULLER), mounts (with MOUNT or MOUNT_EXOTIC), and siege minions (with TRAINABLE_WAR or SLOW_LEARNER), even the normally untameable species.
Are the entity raws posted on the wiki anywhere? Each creature has a wiki entry with its creature raws attached to the end. But civilized creature entries like "dwarf" are predominantly descriptions of the entity, not the creature. Seems odd to then conclude with a link to the creature raws and not the entity. If anyone were trying to learn anything about the main races using the wiki it'd be helpful to have both.They are accessible with DFRawFunctions (an extension we have on the wiki); however, the standing convention is to include creature raws on creature pages (similarly, the pages for dwarves, elves, etc. have the creature sidebar). I can try to piece together how to access the entity raws using the extension if you think that would be helpful, though.
-Don't say "in the new version" or anything like that. The "new version" is nearly two years old (some of the stuff is five years old)Agreed. It's worth linking to the community portal (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal), specifically Rule T (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#T) (we have namespaces for a reason!). For larger sections about things that were added in specific versions of "DF2014" (0.42.01, 0.43.05, etc), there's {{new in}} (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Template:New_in). For smaller bits (e.g. sentences), {{version}} (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Template:Version) works.
-Mention bugs if there are any, and ideally workaroundsAlso link to them with {{bug}} (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Template:Bug) to make it easier to figure out if they're fixed.
-Don't say silly stuff like "candy", "clown" or "circus". No one's ever been spoiled by demons since DF2014. If you really must, say "HFS" like Toady, and only for demons. Adamantine hasn't been a spoiler for 10 years nowFor anyone concerned about giving away too much, there are some spoiler templates (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Warnings) you can use.
-Don't just link to a post, actually copy and paste the post and editorialize it. It's a wiki, not a links collection(do be careful to avoid copyright issues - there are also some basic citation templates (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Citation_templates) available)
--snip--
-Try to search Toady's forum posts for stuff, especially in FotF he sometimes gives out a lot of information
-It seems everyone's on Reddit now, and you can find useful scattered info there. Of course, this being reddit, it's a pain to search and browse. One more reason to centralize all info on the wiki
Your character will have a limit on the maximum number of companions, that is based on your reputation level and the Social Awareness attribute. With average social awareness and the maximum level of fame, the limit is 19 companions.
Touching on stress one more time:The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.
For a bug that has such in depth work arounds and information, it could merit it's own page. Something like 'Managing Stress Guide for V44.12'. That's a pretty normal thing on standard wikipedia, and if we did that there would be no worries about it being left behind in the Stress page after the problem is fixed.
That said, I'm not arguing that it needs to be done, just that if someone wants to volunteer to collate that data and write it up they should feel free to. As of now people are looking for that info constantly, that to me seems wiki-worthy even if it's going away soon.
I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.
I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.Digging too deep should still be a spoiler. You can know about demons in legends and adamantine in economic stones without knowing about hollow spires.
You know worldgen dwarves are going to be able to dig too deep in the next version, right?I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.Digging too deep should still be a spoiler. You can know about demons in legends and adamantine in economic stones without knowing about hollow spires.
You know worldgen dwarves are going to be able to dig too deep in the next version, right?We'll have to see how much info legends gives away.
The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.
A quick raw change to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress works just as well and you can actually have fun playing the game.
Just worried that too much will turn new people right off playing at all. DF is already thought of incorrectly as a game that's "impossible to play without mods".
Dwarves can quickly become stressed by exposure to corpses and body parts. Bug:7435
Worldgen dorfs can already dig too deep. It's just that the clowns just stay there, rather than flood the world. The fortress I've seen (probably 0.40.24) was a reclaim of a site where the spire consisted of Unknown Material where it had been breached and then re-sealed, with a limited number of clowns in the fortress itself.
Zach and Tarn have drawn a lot of pictures of creatures for donors. I think we ought to try to add them to creature pages where they exist, like the troll page (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Troll) has. Is there a collection of crayon art they've sent out somewhere?
Yes. So long as the options are clear, then yes of course it should be on the wiki. Too often it's written as "xyz is broken, micronanage in this insanely boring way to deal with it or the game won't work".The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.
A quick raw change to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress works just as well and you can actually have fun playing the game.
Just worried that too much will turn new people right off playing at all. DF is already thought of incorrectly as a game that's "impossible to play without mods".
Withhold information because it's not fun enough? I don't understand that logic at all. It's also very un-fun for new players to search forums and reddit to figure out how to solve these problems when there is a wiki that should be used as a single source of truth. Why would you think changing the raws to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress wouldn't be the first and simplest solution in the stress guide?
Method 1 - edit these values in this file.
Method 2 - run remove-stress and fill-needs in DF Hack every few months.
Method 3 - run brainwash on troublesome dwarves.
Method 4 - Exile everyone in a bad mood & disable weather
Method 4-infinity - A bunch of micromanagement.
Right not the wiki simply saysQuoteDwarves can quickly become stressed by exposure to corpses and body parts. Bug:7435
That's not how to operate a wiki, it's supposed to have detailed info to help people, this comment about a bug is at best not helpful for the current stress situation, at worst misleading about the the problem.
Also, the DFHack wiki page is woefully undocumented. Should it just point to the manual on readthedocs? What about dfhack scripts that fix bugs, should they be mentioned?
I added a section for the managing stress discussion. I didn't make it it's own page because I need an account with a history to make one. Please feel free to add anything you like to it, or clarify anything. I don't actually know the micromanaging ways of dealing with stress so I added the basic work arounds I could think of.Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stress#Managing_Stress
Also, the DFHack wiki page is woefully undocumented. Should it just point to the manual on readthedocs? What about dfhack scripts that fix bugs, should they be mentioned?Sounds like a good idea to me. At least adding the helpful link to docs, but also a laymen's write up of useful commands and ways to use df hack would be great for a wiki.
For an exhaustive list of and manual on the commands in the utility, see the documentation (link)
Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?
I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).
Huh? That page already contains the link to the documentation and has a section/comment on bugfixing. In many ways it is an exemplary page in that it doesn't ramble about irrelevancies (unlike me ;)). No point in repeating the commands and information contained in the manual that it already points to.
Many bugfixes are included with DFHack, but not enabled by default - check dfhack.init to see if the "tweak *" and "fix/*" lines are commented out. The Starter Packs enable all bugfixes by default.
(There's also a dead link to Isoworld but I don't know about the status of that project and why it is missing a page: - at least in the short term - linking instead to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Isoworld might make sense.)
(There's also a dead link to Isoworld but I don't know about the status of that project and why it is missing a page: - at least in the short term - linking instead to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Isoworld might make sense.)
I fixed this link.
+++++++
I also found this redirect page, this should not redirect to Mountain gnomes, because there are also Dark gnomes. If nobody knows how to remove it I can try to figure it out in a couple days. I think replacing it with simple links to the two gnomes would be good.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Gnome&redirect=no
If it's not on the tracker, it means no-one has been able to prove it, which generally means it doesn't exist. Best to be careful about adding stuff just based on forum talk.Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?
I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).
I've not experienced it, since I don't really exile, but I've read about it happening so I assumed that meant it was. I can alter it and add a note.
Does anyone know how to remove this (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no)? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Animal_person does redirect as expected.
Does anyone know how to remove this (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no)? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Animal_person does redirect as expected.
You linked to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no - the "redirect=no" parameter in the URL prevents redirects from redirecting, which allows you to view/edit them, but isn't the default. (Maybe you followed the "redirected from" link on the "Animal person" page, or a link provided by someone else?)
If it's not on the tracker, it means no-one has been able to prove it, which generally means it doesn't exist. Best to be careful about adding stuff just based on forum talk.Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?
I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).
I've not experienced it, since I don't really exile, but I've read about it happening so I assumed that meant it was. I can alter it and add a note.
You can add this one for exile bugs though:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10848
When in doubt, but you think it's useful information, just add it and someone will fix it later. If an item of information is not verified, it should be labeled for verification.
Does anyone know how to remove this (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no)? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Animal_person does redirect as expected.
You linked to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no - the "redirect=no" parameter in the URL prevents redirects from redirecting, which allows you to view/edit them, but isn't the default. (Maybe you followed the "redirected from" link on the "Animal person" page, or a link provided by someone else?)
When you click this in the search box it brings me to that page with that url. I actually wind up at this page pretty regularly, I never think to search it singularly.
(https://i.imgur.com/QieZRVZ.png)
Oh, thanks for the clarification - so it's actually the "Animal people" page that was the issue, not "DF2014:Animal people".
When you click this in the search box it brings me to that page with that url. I actually wind up at this page pretty regularly, I never think to search it singularly.
-snip-
Hmm, yeah, this is a problem I caused when I moved the pages* over some week ago. It clearly didn't work out as intended. Redirects are tricky, sadly I can't really tell how to solve this either, but I am sorry for causing the problem to begin with.
*DF2014:Animal_people => DF2014:Animal_person
v0.34:Animal_people => v0.34:Animal_person
I just updated the wiki page on Emigration and added some known bugs. Is there anything else I should add?Maybe add a note that returning dwarves requires testing. That way someone will get round to checking if it's really a thing.
If none of that helps, PM me and I'll create an account for you (and I should be able to exempt you from the captcha requirements too, while I'm at it).
The "12 captcha screens" issue is probably a Google thing - not much we can do there, sorry.
I just updated the wiki page on Emigration and added some known bugs. Is there anything else I should add?
Lots to do as of the new release. Altars and guildhalls and bastards and monasteries and nobles and mounting monstrosities, dragons and more.They need category pages for the links to not be red. Some examples: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Version
But first, a quick question: how come 0.47.01 (and 0.44.11) are not identified versions by the {{version|0.xy.wz}} template?
So... I guess we're not getting a DF2020 namespace? :DHistorically that has only been done for releases that broke compatibility. Also, it's a bit late to make a new namespace at this point, since DF2014 is being updated with 0.47 stuff. We could consider renaming it "current" or something, though.
Do the workshop templates get updated automatically from the raws? The craftsdwarf workshop has two new products (dice, altar) that should be added. I haven't found a way to edit the template so I assume it parses the information from somewhere else.
Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Bogeyman&curid=30961&diff=250100&oldid=250099), due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.
Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Bogeyman&curid=30961&diff=250100&oldid=250099), due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.
The behavior difference between 0.47.01 and prior versions should probably be noted.
Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Bogeyman&curid=30961&diff=250100&oldid=250099), due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.
The behavior difference between 0.47.01 and prior versions should probably be noted.
There are a lot of changes from 44.12 to 47.01 that don't warrant a new namespace but I wonder if the 44.12 pages should be archived and kept as separate pages? Would that be a ton a work lethosor?Separate namespaces are how we keep older versions of pages. Granted, there are other ways to do it too (e.g. subpages), but namespaces are the cleanest solution we've come up with. Doing a migration like that is non-trivial, and would rapidly become more complicated as people make more changes to DF2014 pages.
Right now the wiki shows the versions as v0.47.01 · v0.34 · v0.31 · v0.28 · v0.23, but imo players will be using 44.12 for a while. Until several versions of bug fixes come out and there is a stable LNP I don't think the bulk of causal players will switch to 47.01 for much longer than a quick investigation. If all the wiki pages update for how things exist in 44.12 I think it will be a pain in a lot of asses.The same could have been said about 0.43 and 0.42. I don't really disagree, but I'd like to be consistent, and we didn't make new namespaces for those even though the same argument applies. (Basically, people are able to migrate from 0.44 to 0.47, but weren't able to migrate from 0.34 to 0.40, or 0.31 to 0.34.)
The same could have been said about 0.43 and 0.42. I don't really disagree, but I'd like to be consistent, and we didn't make new namespaces for those even though the same argument applies. (Basically, people are able to migrate from 0.44 to 0.47, but weren't able to migrate from 0.34 to 0.40, or 0.31 to 0.34.)
it makes more sense to me to make a wiki page based on stable version not namespaceWhat do you mean by this? There are 5 namespaces on the wiki, corresponding to 5 major DF versions: DF2014, v0.34, v0.31, 40d, and 23a. That's how information is split up between major versions; are you picturing using something else instead of namespaces to do this?
I saw someone mention they play .42 the other day, it'd be nice if they could see the wiki data from that version when looking something up, but not much will work the same in .47.There are some templates that might be useful:
But whatever, I'm not interested in crusading for some huge change. I do think if we're bundling all those versions together that we should include info (where changes apply) from each stable version on a page. For example stress, aquifers, boogeymen, etc info from 44.12 should stick around on the page in a clearly labeled section for that version.
it makes more sense to me to make a wiki page based on stable version not namespaceWhat do you mean by this? There are 5 namespaces on the wiki, corresponding to 5 major DF versions: DF2014, v0.34, v0.31, 40d, and 23a. That's how information is split up between major versions; are you picturing using something else instead of namespaces to do this?
So double the size/work of the Wiki for the 0.001% of players using minor versions? I wouldn't think that's a great allocation of resources (human or server).
Anyone got dibs on starting the "Experiment (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Experiment)" page for the wiki? I'm using compressed saves, so I don't have sample RAWs, which would seem useful, but I might at least set up a stub with a brief explanation on what those wacky names in the Adventurer Mode start screen are.
Someone beat me to it by the time I got home.
I did, however, take time to extract some sample RAWs (https://pastebin.com/i3nCPL49) and do (minimal, initial) clean-up on them. It might be worth posting them, as is done for angels, as examples of the commonalities in experiments. Or at least, it provides some idea of what is universal among experiments.
NO_GENDER is quite an old tag.Someone beat me to it by the time I got home.
I did, however, take time to extract some sample RAWs (https://pastebin.com/i3nCPL49) and do (minimal, initial) clean-up on them. It might be worth posting them, as is done for angels, as examples of the commonalities in experiments. Or at least, it provides some idea of what is universal among experiments.
found a new token in those raws i think:
NO_GENDER
Also,
[NIGHT_CREATURE] token with no arguments
NO_GENDER is quite an old tag.Someone beat me to it by the time I got home.
I did, however, take time to extract some sample RAWs (https://pastebin.com/i3nCPL49) and do (minimal, initial) clean-up on them. It might be worth posting them, as is done for angels, as examples of the commonalities in experiments. Or at least, it provides some idea of what is universal among experiments.
found a new token in those raws i think:
NO_GENDER
Also,
[NIGHT_CREATURE] token with no arguments
Do you have any idea what NO_GENDER does?
Also, the I:SOURCE EXPERIMENT has a link to one of my posts. I don't know for sure what it does, as I haven't experimented with it, and that post was more, I found this new tag, here's what I assume it does.
Could that link be removed or changed to a post that explains what it does?
Artifact etc. magical stuff is all on the giant table for the magic release, but no idea what we'll support on the first go.
The SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED tag was a precaution after I had one bug with effects not fully manifesting due to low levels. It may not be necessary, but I decided to give everybody a full dose of the juice until I could get a closer look at it.
EXPERIMENT_ONLY: Rather than just a source, it should probably be mixed with USAGE_HINTS somehow, but it has to be starker in stopping it from being used outside the experiment context. It's just a cludge for the mix there since I didn't have time to do better. It stops the use in play and also encourages the usage specifically to create experimental population. Theoretically, though I didn't check this, if you have an invader in w.g. that does experiments, they should apply any modded effect that has EXPERIMENT_ONLY and an ADD_SYNDROME effect, no matter what it is, to make whatever kind of army (though these armies will probably be treated as less than intelligent/soulless in some contexts since they are expected to be zombieish.) An "invader that does experiments" here is a UNIQUE_DEMON with deformity or chaos (and the demonic experiments param is set) or anybody with NIGHT_CREATURE_EXPERIMENTER, who also knows a relevant interaction. I'm less sure about the demons -- they can know lots of secrets since they get them for free through spheres, but I don't know how easy it is to link one of these ghoul-type interactions to them. Doing it as a deformity or chaos I_SOURCE:SECRET/IS_SPHERE may work.
if it is, it's on https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Adventurer_mode somewhere... That page really really needs to be split up :sI searched for 'tactical' on that page and did not find it.
NO_GENDER is quite an old tag.
found a new token in those raws i think:
NO_GENDER
Do you have any idea what NO_GENDER does?
Hmm... I'm not sure why I said that. I should have been able to look it up on wiki even then. Maybe I meant to write some other token, but wrote the same one as the first one?*facepalm* Apart from the obvious (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#NO_GENDER), I think you mean? Not really, no...that is, me neither.NO_GENDER is quite an old tag.
found a new token in those raws i think:
NO_GENDER
Do you have any idea what NO_GENDER does?
I'd personally like to see the adventure mode page updated. As well as some info on escaped necromancer experiments. And finally some info on the new generated structures.
Hey, would it be helpful for me to list the age at which a creature reaches full size? Some animals take, say, a year to reach adulthood, but 2 years to reach full size, and knowing that is important for the meat industry.
To that end, would editing the animal template to include a "Full size at x years" make it so all articles with that template have that field?
Wouldn't that be the `Adult at` age listed on the animal pages?
The advanced world generation page http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Advanced_world_generation (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Advanced_world_generation) is missing information on some of the new parameters, specifically
[ALLOW_DIVINATION:1]
[ALLOW_DEMONIC_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_LIEUTENANTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_GHOULS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_SUMMONS:1]
Presumably the settings are 1 for on and 0 for off. If anyone feels confident that they know what each does, it would be useful information to add.
I say each because these are the (copy-pasted) tags/switches provided by Toady in world_gen.txt. But maybe he's confused about it? I posted here because I don't know much about the workings of these parameters in the hope that someone else who did might pick up the slack.Ah. That aside, if anything, there doesn't seem to be much to know from my experience - its just on/off switches for mostly necromancy (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Magic#Night_creatures) and divination-focused (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dice) stuff ATM - portents of mythgen and the Big Wait, I'd have thought.
Nice as the new interaction examples (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Interaction_examples) page happens to be...there's no actual explanation about what interactions are, either. As a semi-layperson, my reading has led me to infer that they're mostly used in creature modding (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Modding#Modding_creatures), correct? But beyond that, there's no explanation on that page, or anywhere else that that kind of explanation might be likely to be.Huh, you're absolutely right. Huh.
How up-to-date is this page?Mostly not updated to reflect changes in 47.x. Especially in the "new" and "lingering" bugs.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Known_bugs_and_issues
It's linked from the reddit sideboard, so it probably gets a lot of traffic.
The cost of a weapon or piece of armor in metal bars can be calculated by using material size/3 and rounding down, with no item costing less than one metal bar.
I'm not sure how new the token are, but Descriptor Shape Token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token) is probably in need of an update due to how various tokens get used and the presence of them.Roger roger! (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token&diff=251613&oldid=244971)
[CATEGORY:] (Simple, Dice), [FACES:], and any others would probably be good areas to explore.
I'm not sure how new the token are, but Descriptor Shape Token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token) is probably in need of an update due to how various tokens get used and the presence of them.Roger roger! (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token&diff=251613&oldid=244971)
[CATEGORY:] (Simple, Dice), [FACES:], and any others would probably be good areas to explore.
I'm not sure how new the token are, but Descriptor Shape Token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token) is probably in need of an update due to how various tokens get used and the presence of them.Roger roger! (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Descriptor_shape_token&diff=251613&oldid=244971)
[CATEGORY:] (Simple, Dice), [FACES:], and any others would probably be good areas to explore.
oh my god. a savior
When Shadowfury333 originally added that sentence (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Prickle_berry&diff=117567&oldid=106428), he linked "delicious" the the "value (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Item_value)" article. For processed plants, it looks like underground plants have a higher multiplier than above ground plants.So, dwarves get some kind of happy thought bonus to drinking expensive booze?
I 2010 they might have. I've seen it claimed that meal value affecting the amount of satisfaction a dorf gains from a meal, but only if it contains a favorite ingredient. If that's correct, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess the same might apply to booze (which would presumably result in Sunshine lovers being happier, or average, than Gutter Crouor lovers, but what about the weirdo water lovers? I don't think water has any value?).When Shadowfury333 originally added that sentence (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Prickle_berry&diff=117567&oldid=106428), he linked "delicious" the the "value (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Item_value)" article. For processed plants, it looks like underground plants have a higher multiplier than above ground plants.So, dwarves get some kind of happy thought bonus to drinking expensive booze?
Seems that "valuable" would be a more useful word. It does make a difference when people look it up. From "no point as plump helmet wine is just easier" to "wouldn't want to trade with this, but then, you wouldn't rely on booze for trade anyway".I 2010 they might have. I've seen it claimed that meal value affecting the amount of satisfaction a dorf gains from a meal, but only if it contains a favorite ingredient. If that's correct, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess the same might apply to booze (which would presumably result in Sunshine lovers being happier, or average, than Gutter Crouor lovers, but what about the weirdo water lovers? I don't think water has any value?).When Shadowfury333 originally added that sentence (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Prickle_berry&diff=117567&oldid=106428), he linked "delicious" the the "value (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Item_value)" article. For processed plants, it looks like underground plants have a higher multiplier than above ground plants.So, dwarves get some kind of happy thought bonus to drinking expensive booze?
Seems that "valuable" would be a more useful word. It does make a difference when people look it up. From "no point as plump helmet wine is just easier" to "wouldn't want to trade with this, but then, you wouldn't rely on booze for trade anyway".I 2010 they might have. I've seen it claimed that meal value affecting the amount of satisfaction a dorf gains from a meal, but only if it contains a favorite ingredient. If that's correct, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess the same might apply to booze (which would presumably result in Sunshine lovers being happier, or average, than Gutter Crouor lovers, but what about the weirdo water lovers? I don't think water has any value?).When Shadowfury333 originally added that sentence (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Prickle_berry&diff=117567&oldid=106428), he linked "delicious" the the "value (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Item_value)" article. For processed plants, it looks like underground plants have a higher multiplier than above ground plants.So, dwarves get some kind of happy thought bonus to drinking expensive booze?
But would need science, probably involving Dfhack extracted numbers to check how true it is, and I wouldn't wan t to change it without proof.
Thank you. That is actually what I asked originally as the article doesn't actually link to this page and the value page doesn't mention it at all. It's just a random word "delicious"with a meaningless link to anyone without this knowledge.Seems that "valuable" would be a more useful word. It does make a difference when people look it up. From "no point as plump helmet wine is just easier" to "wouldn't want to trade with this, but then, you wouldn't rely on booze for trade anyway".I 2010 they might have. I've seen it claimed that meal value affecting the amount of satisfaction a dorf gains from a meal, but only if it contains a favorite ingredient. If that's correct, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess the same might apply to booze (which would presumably result in Sunshine lovers being happier, or average, than Gutter Crouor lovers, but what about the weirdo water lovers? I don't think water has any value?).When Shadowfury333 originally added that sentence (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Prickle_berry&diff=117567&oldid=106428), he linked "delicious" the the "value (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Item_value)" article. For processed plants, it looks like underground plants have a higher multiplier than above ground plants.So, dwarves get some kind of happy thought bonus to drinking expensive booze?
But would need science, probably involving Dfhack extracted numbers to check how true it is, and I wouldn't wan t to change it without proof.
Science has been done a long time ago (for both food and alcohol). The value of the alcohol stack the dwarf is drinking from determines the strength of the good thought they get, assuming they have a preference for it in the first place. Last time I checked it was still working that way, although I haven't bothered confirming for 47.xx.
This information is already in the wiki here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Thought#Nourishment (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Thought#Nourishment) so rather than needing proof it needs disproving if you wish to change it.
Under performance it says:Speculation: The hearsay might stem from dorf's inability to seek out others, but rather just select a random tavern location to go to, and a large tavern might mean dorfs would be spread too thin to form groups. If that's the case, the recently modified behavior of seeking out others might invalidate the comment.
"
"While one would assume a larger dance floor would increase the chances of dancing, it does the opposite. This is presumably a bug."
Good example of useless heresay that prevents people from enjoying the game. Is there a link to the bug report at least? Dfhack data analysis?
Seems a reasonable assumption. If there had been a link of any kind we could have edited this to say, working now. But now I guess we just have to wait until whoever wrote it explains why they wrote it. Never noticed this before or after, but then, never carried out the science.Under performance it says:Speculation: The hearsay might stem from dorf's inability to seek out others, but rather just select a random tavern location to go to, and a large tavern might mean dorfs would be spread too thin to form groups. If that's the case, the recently modified behavior of seeking out others might invalidate the comment.
"
"While one would assume a larger dance floor would increase the chances of dancing, it does the opposite. This is presumably a bug."
Good example of useless heresay that prevents people from enjoying the game. Is there a link to the bug report at least? Dfhack data analysis?
Aquifers page could do with a complete overhaul. As the bane of many players' existence for many years, the first thing any new player is going to see with a quick Google search is "whatever you do turn off aquifers" followed by further checking of the wiki which confirms their aquifers-are-complicated fears.
Right now, almost the entire page is dedicated to the very rare heavy aquifer (something for thrill seekers to hunt down and try) and nothing but a side comment about what to do with the regular type normal players will be encountering most of the time (dig it, profit).
That's much better. Should be easy enough to add in any extra tips and things that people find when working with regular aquifers now.Aquifers page could do with a complete overhaul. As the bane of many players' existence for many years, the first thing any new player is going to see with a quick Google search is "whatever you do turn off aquifers" followed by further checking of the wiki which confirms their aquifers-are-complicated fears.
Right now, almost the entire page is dedicated to the very rare heavy aquifer (something for thrill seekers to hunt down and try) and nothing but a side comment about what to do with the regular type normal players will be encountering most of the time (dig it, profit).
how's this? i didn't really add that much, and the bulk of the page is still about the heavy aquifer, but it should be a little less heavy-specific.
are danger rooms worth keeping around? i understand that due to the risk of fatalities they're currently worse than useless when compared to sparring.
What does everyone think about questions asked here or in /r/dwarffortress (not official) that go into more detail into the mechanics of the game? Right now, for example, there's a question about what happens to items you sell to other civilizations. There's a bunch of questions about the vanilla game that you can't find on the wiki, and I was wondering whether the wiki should include more in depth information on the game. For example, on /r/dwarffortress, there's a question about what happens to the items you trade with other civilizations. Do they use it, does it just despawn? etc. It's not my question, if you must know, but these kind of questions are things anyone would think, but you would have to ask them instead of them being documented already. The wiki feels full of incomplete information or perhaps just full of basic information.Stuff which isn't on the wiki is generally stuff that isn't known since it's really hard to test. It's not left out because someone thought people didn't need to know. That and really new stuff that people just haven't gotten around to checking yet.
So is the wiki for basic information on the game or a complete source of information on the game?
That is all for now.
So right now you have four choices. You don't have to take any of them. You can just do a regular attack which in general will take three steps in and three steps out, or you can do a quick attack which will be two steps in and two steps out. Sort of like a jab or a little stab or something. But that decreases the velocity of your attack by fifty percent so you wouldn't be able to penetrate maybe even certain leather armours or whatever with your dagger or whatever. And so if you want to do a little, little jab though, and get it in quickly before the, before the person lands an attack, and you think you can get some mileage out of that then you can do that. You can also do a heavy attack which makes it four steps in and four steps out but increases the velocity by fifty percent. And then there's the wild attack which is kind of a roll of the dice, you do two steps in and then something like five steps out. So you're just kind of going in really fast, you get the velocity bonus, but you have a minus to hit. And you also become unbalanced and unsteady for some turns while you're recovering. So that people can hit you easier but if you really have a... if it's a desperate thing, you can do that.
And then the final option we have was a precise attack. It's five steps in so you are really taking your time and you get an increased roll which kinda increases everything about the attack. [...] And then the final option in the menu is the, the option to set it as a multiple attack and then you can go in and then add another action like a moving away or climbing while you're doing this one attack. Or you can choose another attack if you want to do something like stab, stab two daggers at once. The penalties are massive so it's, it's not something you really wanna do. It's more for like, stylishly stabbing somebody a bunch of times when they're unconscious. Or when you're sneaking up behind them and you wanna jab two daggers in their ribs or whatever. [...] Then you can go ahead and take the massive, kinda seventy five percent cut to your roll or whatever [...]
Can I make a suggestion for the Wiki? On pages that have items, could we include the stockpile/s go in? I was thinking they could go in the table on the right.
a thing i think should be included in the wiki that would make the adventurer mode section a lot better (but not nessesarily related to the newest release) is a table that shows how many skill points / attribute points you need to spend to reach certain skill levels or certain levels of abillity as just a sort of general utillity, not knowing exactly what you can and cannot make with the character creator before you get started can be a bit frustrating, such a tool would be really helpful and would be rather easy to research.
Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token) instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot, each should link to the category page where creatures containing that token, so for instance instead of linking you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS) it links you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable) An link linking you to the same page and the same place on the same page feels kinda pointless
Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token) instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot
Is the Premium release not going to break saves?It's not planned to break saves, but it needs to be good so saves will be broken if it's necessary. Was the last thing Toady said on the matter.
Anyways, we really need a systematic way for going about this.
What if we created a new quality level called "needs review" or something similar. We put all of the current DF2014 articles into that quality level. And then we only take articles back out once they've been reworked and/or checked over. You could make a procedure for that too. An article has to be checked over by X number of people before it's let back out of the box.
Dwarven merchants start off wanting about a 100% profit, maybe a little more.
It is likely that dice with more sides have more extreme effects: dice with fewer sides than 12 cannot cause the stronger effects (shown in bold), both good or bad.
When Sphere page will get effects of spheres? Like list of spheres that make regions into evil, spheres that add HFS experimenting or summoning or UL et cetera.
When Sphere page will get effects of spheres? Like list of spheres that make regions into evil, spheres that add HFS experimenting or summoning or UL et cetera.
Huh? I didn’t know that was in, already! I thought regions being tied to different spheres (instead of just “good”, “neutral”, or “evil”) wasn’t coming until after the Big Wait.
We seem to have something of a problem:I took the liberty of unbolding the two that were originally not bolded, as lethosor outlaid. Better would be to do the advmode verification testing, though (albeit personally I'm unexperienced with adv mode, so maybe someone else can do that).QuoteIt is likely that dice with more sides have more extreme effects: dice with fewer sides than 12 cannot cause the stronger effects (shown in bold), both good or bad.
...the entire list, like it or not, is in bold ATM. Suggestions?
Searching for "Plot" currently redirects to Farming, does anyone else think it might be sensible to set up a disambiguation page for people who are looking for Intrigue plots rather than Farm plots?
Can I make a suggestion for the Wiki? On pages that have items, could we include the stockpile/s go in? I was thinking they could go in the table on the right.
Quoting this not because I've reached the level where I know how to edit wiki templates, but as it is a good idea I don't want to bury.
Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token) instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot, each should link to the category page where creatures containing that token, so for instance instead of linking you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS) it links you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable) An link linking you to the same page and the same place on the same page feels kinda pointless
This article or section may need to be updated due to recent changes.there should be e.g.
This article or section may need to be updated due to changes in 0.47.05 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.47.05).
{{old}} is a very practical template to use whenever a new update comes up, to remind that a certain article needs updating when you don’t have time/done the research yet. I feels like it’s lacking a way to refer to which version changed things up though, as if you had that other users could look at the right release information to make the change/know which science to do.
I.e. in addition toQuoteThis article or section may need to be updated due to recent changes.there should be e.g.QuoteThis article or section may need to be updated due to changes in 0.47.05 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.47.05).
These are two things I've been wanting to do for a long time but it seems like a large chore. I'd like to do this for all tokens, not just creatures, is there any simple way to create a category page from all known Tokens and then populate it from the raws that token appears in? I can imagine a script that could do it with the raws themselves but I don't know how it would work in on a wiki.
Maybe we could also make a template sidebar for items/objects (like creatures have) that holds the common item info like the translations, description, the stockpile it belongs to, possible materials, tile, image from the premium release, possible workshops it can be made in, etc?
Firstly, I think that the main page of the wiki isn't great. The term "Dwarf Fortress Wiki" should be larger, and the organization of the various things on the page isn't the best. I think that the pages new players will need immediately (which is currently just an orange-outlined box) should be right at the top, and among the four articles there should be a fifth article containing important notes, such as "There is no way to win and hundreds of ways to lose." and "You should always set up things (such as a farm, a milatia, a hopstital, etc.) before you need it.". Under that would be the quote and image of the day, followed by extremely useful articles below.The design has gone through several iterations. Not saying it's "perfect" by any means, but there have been a number of compromises made to balance overall appearance and positioning of important information. I personally think the orange box is close enough to the top and stands out enough that it's fairly easy to find.
Second, I'm not a fan of the current rating system for articles. I think that the guidelines for article rating are overall too vague, and there aren't enough ratings. I personally think that a rating system that goes "tatterred, normal, well-crafted, finely-crafted, superior, exceptional, masterwork, artifact" would be best, with "tattered" being used for unfinished articles, and "artifact" being reserved for articles that are important enough to be on the main page.We did go from 4 to 5 at one point, but decided we didn't need more at the time. It is subjective, yes, but 8 would take up a lot of space, and I'm not seeing a strong reason to exactly match DF's item quality scale.
Fourth thing: I feel that the Wiki needs to be promoted in more places, such as in #df-questions in the Kitfox discord and in the biweekly DF questions thread on the subreddit.The questions threads already link to the wiki (example from yesterday (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/lhys5s/biweekly_df_questions_thread/)). I haven't really monitored the Discord channel you mentioned much, but it could be worth adding references to the wiki there if there aren't any already. It's not something that can be done on the wiki side, though.
Sixth thing: I would like to see a dark mode available on the wiki, since most dark mode extensions distort the colored text.It has been suggested a few times. There might be a wiki extension we could install for it, but if the colored text you're referring to is in the articles themselves, it would almost certainly have the same issue. (Are you referring to the "article version" box, snippets of DF-style inline text, or something else?)
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I would like to see the current captcha system replaced with something less intrusive, since ReCAPTCHA is run by Google, and Google is a terrible company.The wiki relies heavily on Google ads to keep the servers running. It might be possible to replace ReCAPTCHA; the only usable alternative I'm seeing that our extension (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit) supports is https://www.hcaptcha.com/, and I'm not sure if our version of the extension supports it, but it might work as a replacement.
The [main page's] design has gone through several iterations. Not saying it's "perfect" by any means, but there have been a number of compromises made to balance overall appearance and positioning of important information. I personally think the orange box is close enough to the top and stands out enough that it's fairly easy to find.
A page like the one you described could be useful. I'm not sure if there is one already.
We did go from 4 to 5 [quality levels] at one point, but decided we didn't need more at the time. It is subjective, yes, but 8 would take up a lot of space, and I'm not seeing a strong reason to exactly match DF's item quality scale.
[Subnamespaces is] not a feature that exists, unfortunately.
[Dark mode] has been suggested a few times. There might be a wiki extension we could install for it, but if the colored text you're referring to is in the articles themselves, it would almost certainly have the same issue. (Are you referring to the "article version" box, snippets of DF-style inline text, or something else?)
Alright, then. I guess the main page works fine for now, and while I would like to see it revised a bit more, I don't want to disturb anybody.I'm not opposed to revisions - if we can make it easier to navigate, that's fine by me! I just don't think there's a need for a major redesign, or the controversy that could come with a major redesign. But it's a wiki, and it can be changed.
Alright, after taking this into consideration, I have a new proposal:I was also about to point out that the current system is more of a quality (or sometimes completeness) indicator than an importance indicator (the criteria for "masterwork" do mention importance a bit, but there are several other criteria as well).
- "Tattered" would be used specifically for stubs and unfinished things.
- "Well-crafted" would be the default, used for things like articles on specific stones, gems, creatures...pretty much anything there's a lot of.
- "Finely-crafted" would be used for the above things, but really notable examples, such as obsidian, star sapphires, fire men, etc.
- "Superior" would be used for things that aren't the most important, such as dice, taverns, hotkeys, etc.
- "Exceptional" would be used for things that are important, but not important enough to be directly linked on the main page, such as megabeasts, trading and caravans, þe hidden fun stuff, etc.
- "Masterwork" would be reserved for things that are important enough to be linked to on the main page, such as the military, dwarves, fun, etc.
I've also realized that this is more of an importance indicator than a quality indicator. Maybe it could be implemented alongside the current system, although the current system works fine as-is.
Quote[Subnamespaces is] not a feature that exists, unfortunately.Dang. Would there be some other way to sort them?
I'm specifically referring to DF-style inline text.Ok, thanks, that helps. Do you have a screenshot of the issue handy?
QuoteFourth thing: I feel that the Wiki needs to be promoted in more places, such as in #df-questions in the Kitfox discord and in the biweekly DF questions thread on the subreddit.The questions threads already link to the wiki (example from yesterday (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/lhys5s/biweekly_df_questions_thread/)). I haven't really monitored the Discord channel you mentioned much, but it could be worth adding references to the wiki there if there aren't any already. It's not something that can be done on the wiki side, though.
Just copy and paste it all to the wiki.
I suspect an automated process is being used to divide up the raws, which can hopefully be changed to divide after the newline instead.
Correct, it is https://github.com/quietust/DFRawFunctions. But changing it unfortunately introduces the opposite issue, because relevant text is sometimes added before raws. I believe the decision was made to assume that text corresponds to the object following it because that is the case more often.
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CLIMBING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
Grasshoppers were sponsored by the generous contributions of the Bay 12 community.
Bernard Suits
[CREATURE:GRASSHOPPER]
[DESCRIPTION:A tiny insect which uses its powerful legs to leap and make noise.]Toady's exact words:Quote from: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6843526#msg6843526It looks like 6/7 < size < 8/7 are the limits.
That means the size limits for dwarves should be 51429 to 68570 (not 50002 to 69998 as the size page implies.) Either there's a bug or something's misunderstood if 52500 is too small.
Does it work the other way where 52500*8/7 = 60000, and that would have to result in 60001 to be worn? That is, 52501 could be the minimum size for dwarves? Then the largest size would be like 69999 or 70002. Someone's going to have to mod creatures to test.
For small/large, the formula I see is
wearer creature size <= item creature size * 6/7 means the item is too large
and
wearer creature size >= item creature size * 8/7 means the item is too small
Clarification from Toady on the armor sizes:Which translates to: Strictly greater than 7/8 * wearer creature size up to, but not including, 7/6 * wearer creature size when your focus is shifted to the potential wearer from the item worn (which is what Bumber suggested two posts back, with the clarification from Toady [in the text quoted, but outside of the snippet quoted] that the exact quotients belong to the "does not fit" side).For small/large, the formula I see is
wearer creature size <= item creature size * 6/7 means the item is too large
and
wearer creature size >= item creature size * 8/7 means the item is too small
The page on wagon structures (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Wagon_(embark)) claims that it's possible for dwarves to embark into a volcano, but there isn't any source listed.
Traitor dwarves were added with the first villainy update. At the time of this edit, next to nothing is known about them except that the concept exists.
is there a page listing what the default glyphs are for everything? most items have an example in their infobox or on their page, but as far as i can tell there's nothing along the lines of "list of things by glyph" or anything like that.
Are you talking about taking down the crayon art from the devs?
One last thing: It appears that <ref></ref> tags don't work on the wiki, which seems rather inconvenient.
One last thing: It appears that <ref></ref> tags don't work on the wiki, which seems rather inconvenient.
This is provided by a third-party extension - it's not a native Mediawiki feature. We do have our own {{cite}} and related templates here: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Citation_templates - they are primitive compared to the extension, but can be useful if you just want to link to where something came from.