"I should be happy to be lynched because then people would lynch the person who lynched me"
No, I'm not going to plan to be lynched to prove that I was right.
That wasn't the question, nor was it the situation.
First of all, you weren't right. You didn't suspect Shakerag at all. flabort's the one who was correct in this case.
Secondly, the question wasn't "wouldn't you get yourself lynched to prove to town that your suspicions were correct." It was "wouldn't you get yourself lynched if doing so outed scum you were not aware of."
Third, the actual question was how you could be glad flabort had outed himself in setting you up, but wouldn't have felt it worthwhile to out scum by letting them hammer you. You failed to address... well, either of those scenarios, but also the actual question of how they intersect.
I'm not planning on getting lynched. No. Fuck that- that's stupid. I have nothing against people lynching scum who hammer me, but I'm not going to go about acting such that that happens. That you think I'm scummy for wanting to keep playing this game (rather than let Shakerag, who I didn't know the alignment of) is not okay.
You're dodging all of the questions again. Do you have any intention of responding to the questions I'm asking, rather than the questions you'd like to answer?
You've displayed nothing but the most contemptible, cowardly, self-preserving terror
Rude.
My apologies, then. Nonetheless, I maintain that attempting to stay alive while dodging issues related to staying alive to the point where it interferes with your wincon is a Bad Thing.
"I am scum because I voted to lynch somebody rather than die myself."
No. I had no way of knowing what alignment he was, and spoiler alert: turned out to not be townie.
Right, there's exactly the problem. You had no way of knowing what their alignment was. You didn't suspect them. It is a spoiler to mention that they weren't town.
You've displayed nothing but the most contemptible, cowardly, self-preserving terror, both in actual actions and hypothetical responses. I even went so far as to ask if you'd intentionally mislynch a townie because they suspected you, and you brushed past it to carry on about how you had no choice.
So apparently the answer is yes, you would intentionally mislynch a townie if they suspected you, simply because you don't want to die yourself. You're not scum because you "voted to lynch somebody rather than die yourself." You're scum because you have no regard whatsoever for your supposed faction, and instead nothing but unadulterated intention to personally survive at any cost.
Sorry? Where did you get that conclusion from?
From asking you about it explicitly, asking about similar issues repeatedly, and getting the same generic semi-relevant BUT I HAVE TO LIVE! response each time. Presumably if this was
not the case, you would have at some point addressed or implied it in some way, rather than dodging the specifics to reaffirm the principle.
You have not.
"You want me to believe you! Aha! I've caught you!"
Errr... I want you to at least consider my points. You're tunneling a bit much here.
And flabort was just voting who he felt was scum! Clearly he did nothing wrong.
You responded to my asking flabort for clarification about this own role by pre-emptively reminding me that he could lie about it and asking me to consider your assumptions instead. That's not asking me to consider your words in a reasonable manner. That's more of the blind panic that's convinced me that there's no chance in hell you're town.
Not that you really have "points," mind. You have a self-serving set of assumptions that you'd like me to believe because they're convenient for you. For the record, I do believe flabort, and now webadict, in stating that said assumptions are incorrect.
I'm not sure you're really responding to what I said with half of the stuff you have here.
If Webadict really has confirmed whatever the hell it is you were saying about Flabort's abilities (he could've lynched two people with it, iirc, which was not what you were saying initially,) congratulations- I assumed something incorrectly about a power that Flabort himself didn't know how to use.
Alright then, let's go piece by piece:
Seeing as you see Flabort as equally suspicious for creating the situation- why do you view my reaction as more scummy than him setting it up?
He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively. If they'd had the chance, anyone before you could have pulled the shit you pulled on their preferred target, and then justified it with "Well but I wanted this one to live!" But I suspect not many of them would have, because they'd have known it was scummy and counterproductive. Even flabort knew that, in the midst of panicking and scrambling to save his own skin otherwise.
Everyone but you, in other words, probably knew that was a terrible, scummy idea.
But hey, let's ask them about it. Why not, right?
No, he couldn't've. The way I see it, he could put X number of votes on two people - that is, both people would receive the same amount of votes from him. So if he set it to 9 it would've tied the day.
1. You ask me why you're more suspicious for pulling the trigger than flabort is for pulling back the hammer
2. I explain that flabort intentionally set it up so that there was room for discussion, rather than panicking fully
3. You assert that he wasn't holding back, just unable to go all the way
No, he couldn't've. The way I see it, he could put X number of votes on two people - that is, both people would receive the same amount of votes from him. So if he set it to 9 it would've tied the day.
Mm. Possibly. Let's ask him about it too.
flabort: Did your one-shot target two or up to two targets? What would have happened if you applied an uneven number of votes to each, or tried to vote additional targets?
There's absolutely no way he would lie for his own benefit here!
My conclusion was drawn based on how he described his abilities prior and how they worked- no, I don't know exactly, but I'd hope you'd at least consider what I've said and how things rather than immediately discounting it and going to Flabort for the answer.
4. I admit that's a potentially valid point, and ask flabort about it
5. Before he even has a chance to answer, you explain that:
a. He might lie about it to save himself
b. Your conclusion is drawn from his prior explanations and observed results
c. No, your version isn't perfect, but you'd like me to consider your version rather than immediately discounting it and accepting flabort's
5.a and 5.b are obvious. There was no particular reason to bring them up except to pre-emptively silence flabort. 5.c sounds downright desperate; you're explicitly asking me to believe you and not flabort before he's even had a chance to answer, and thus before there were any merits to make that call on.
That's all that's absolutely necessary for explaining the connection, but let's keep going anyway:
There's absolutely no way he would lie for his own benefit here!
My conclusion was drawn based on how he described his abilities prior and how they worked- no, I don't know exactly, but I'd hope you'd at least consider what I've said and how things rather than immediately discounting it and going to Flabort for the answer.
So you want me to accept your interpretation- remembering that you'd do absolutely anything to save yourself as well- over his claim. And not only that, but you're paranoid enough about me doing otherwise that you feel it wise to nip it in he bud right now and request that I at least consider your self-serving assumptions before going and doing something strange like asking him about it.
"You want me to believe you! Aha! I've caught you!"
Errr... I want you to at least consider my points. You're tunneling a bit much here.
And flabort was just voting who he felt was scum! Clearly he did nothing wrong.
You responded to my asking flabort for clarification about this own role by pre-emptively reminding me that he could lie about it and asking me to consider your assumptions instead. That's not asking me to consider your words in a reasonable manner. That's more of the blind panic that's convinced me that there's no chance in hell you're town.
Not that you really have "points," mind. You have a self-serving set of assumptions that you'd like me to believe because they're convenient for you. For the record, I do believe flabort, and now webadict, in stating that said assumptions are incorrect.
I'm not sure you're really responding to what I said with half of the stuff you have here.
If Webadict really has confirmed whatever the hell it is you were saying about Flabort's abilities (he could've lynched two people with it, iirc, which was not what you were saying initially,) congratulations- I assumed something incorrectly about a power that Flabort himself didn't know how to use.
6. I point out that you're no less likely to lie to save your own skin than flabort is, and that you're paranoid about it enough to try to stop me from asking him about it in the first place
7. You streamline the above into "You want me to believe you, therefore you're scum," accuse me of tunneling, and claim that you just want me to consider your points; despite the fact that the actual quote explicitly mentioned the
qualities of your desire for me to believe you and the response didn't, meaning it glossed over the actual point to restate your thesis.
Again.8. I
restate the exact issues mentioned9. You confess bafflement as to what I'm even talking about
Is it now clear what I was talking about, how it relates to what you said, why I think you're scum for saying it, and why I think you're scum for glossing over, ignoring, and/or dodging all conversation related to it?
Yep, sure, just completely change your tune as soon as your scumbuddy comes into the question. I should jump at the ability to be lynched by the combined efforts of precisely two people, but for a now confirmed townie to die having listed people he was certain as scum and third party? No, no, that's stupid, that wouldn't help town at all!
You should! Just like flabort should jump at the chance to be a juicy, convenient wagon. See how much we're learning from who is and isn't on him and why? Marvelous; much better than him quickending the day because he's scared.
Of course, that's different from hammering yourself or being ambivalent about it to prove a point, in either case.
Bleh. Being happy that anti-town are dead? Scum! Lynch him! Jesus, sorry for not being depressed about your loss. I don't appreciate your hyperbole at all, by the way- that's not what I've been doing and you clearly know that because you are a rational human being.
Nice save by putting the tiny bits of suspicion on Flabort, though! That way people won't think you wanted him to survive when he flips anti-town.
And I don't appreciate you dodging the more important issue to flippantly address the gist of the easier to address, less important issue.
Hyperbole aside, you've undeniably tried to use knowledge of Shakerag's alignment to justify your actions multiple times. I explain above why that's so scummy, you're free to address that any time now. Or you could dodge the issue entirely to complain about how you don't care for my tone, I guess.
If you're just going to keep attacking my character rather than what I've done (or continually misrepresent what happened), we're done, Irony Owl. You're not going to convince me to stop voting for Flabort, whatever strange reason it is you don't want him to be lynched I do not care about- he's scum, or at least anti-town.
Quote one instance where I've attacked your character as it didn't relate explicitly to your actions after repeated attempts to discern the intent behind your actions. Alternatively, quote one instance where I've misrepresented what happened. Notice I said "quote," not "sarcastically pass off the gist of kind of what was more or less involved."
Also, this sounds like you know I'm not scum.
Author
Topic: BYOR 13 - Game Over: Thirteen (Read 242694 times)