In.Tie vote is a no lynch. I'll add a line about that.
What will happen if the vote is tied? No lynch? Randomly selected? Selected by mafia?
Even if the game is completely randomized, will you reroll absolutely stupid setups? Say, if random alignment choice makes a ratio of 2 town, 3 mafia, 1 serial killer and 1 cult leader, or if nobody has kills or votes of any kind?
By the same point can only town have kills for some reason. I'm guessing even if Mafia whittle down town to match them, the game won't end there. Only when 1 faction remains standing.Any alignment could potentially have a kill. The Mafia members are just not guaranteed one.
I see a lot of third-parties in there. Will jesters potentially be a thing in this game?There is one jester role in the Xylbot list, so it is possible, but unlikely.
It's yer basic day/night townsfolk hang a fool during the day mafia kills a fool in secret at night, right?Definitely not basic, this one. As the OP notes, this is a bastard game, meaning that unlike a normal game, you can't trust everything the moderator (Shakerag) says. Bastard games aren't very beginner-friendly, but you're definitely welcome to join if you can take the weirdness.
I've never played on the forum here, can I try? I started getting into this game structure via other mediums recently :DWelcome aboard! :) Just post the word "in" and Shakerag'll sign you up.
It's yer basic day/night townsfolk hang a fool during the day mafia kills a fool in secret at night, right? And everyone has some sort of special allowance or ability, except in this case its hilariously randomized? Sounds super fun to me.That's about the size of it, yeah. I dunno how much experience you have with this game (I know I don't have much of any), but there's a nice collection of material to peruse in the new-players' guide. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88720.0) It certainly helped me.
I've never played on the forum here, can I try? I started getting into this game structure via other mediums recently :D
It's yer basic day/night townsfolk hang a fool during the day mafia kills a fool in secret at night, right? And everyone has some sort of special allowance or ability, except in this case its hilariously randomized? Sounds super fun to me.
I've never played on the forum here, can I try? I started getting into this game structure via other mediums recently :D
It's yer basic day/night townsfolk hang a fool during the day mafia kills a fool in secret at night, right? And everyone has some sort of special allowance or ability, except in this case its hilariously randomized? Sounds super fun to me.
ahhh ninjarag.Sounds like a KYOSN role.
Nirur Torir: Explain in haiku, why you are town and not scum, you poet at heart.I hate all the scum.
I hate all the scum.How do you know they hate you?
They are bad, okay? And dumb.
(Now they all hate me.)
What are your plans if you succeed in lynching the mod?At the moment, I don't quite want to lynch the mod, only to know if it's possible. However, lynching the mod changes the game so much and so uniquely that it's nigh-impossible to plan for anything that comes after.
I just called them all dumb for no reason (other than that they are). Now killing me is not just a victory condition, but personal.I hate all the scum.How do you know they hate you?
They are bad, okay? And dumb.
(Now they all hate me.)
At the moment, I don't quite want to lynch the mod, only to know if it's possible. However, lynching the mod changes the game so much and so uniquely that it's nigh-impossible to plan for anything that comes after.Can you link me any games where the mod was lynched? It sounds like a fun read.
Shakerag: As this is semi-bastard, is it possible to lynch the mod?
This is a semi-bastard game (as you may be given misleading information from role abilities).
TricMagic: Your vote looks like an RVS pressure vote, but what information are you trying to get out of DA, when you don't even ask a question to go with the vote?
Deus Asmoth: What do you believe is the reason Tric voted for you?
Uh... Everybody: on a scale of 1 to cunt, how much do you hate Shakerag right now?D:
IcyTea, I accuse you of being a prick. Why are you rolefishing? /probable s
Uh... Everybody: on a scale of 1 to cunt, how much do you hate Shakerag right now?Now who's rolefishing for power strength?
Yes, Nirur’s trying to distance himself from the idea he’s scum because he called them dumb, and he wouldn’t call himself dumb.Obviously.
Why didn’t you ask me a question? Also, why did you ask less than half the town a question? Why those particular players?I only thought of good questions for Spin and Superdorf, and asked questions of the three I haven't played with in the last two games.
One more thing: give me one reason that isn’t “I’m town” or “I’m not scum” to not vote for you.Voting me would deprive you of the joys of having your vote on IcyTea.
I just called them all dumb for no reason (other than that they are). Now killing me is not just a victory condition, but personal.So you know that the mafia is made up of players who take things personally?
Can you link me any games where the mod was lynched? It sounds like a fun read.Neruz's Bastard Mafia Game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46294.msg918784#msg918784) was an interesting one.
Voting me would deprive you of the joys of having your vote on IcyTea.Why is having one's vote on me a source of joy? Why aren't you doing it?
These questions are backwards. Dues kinda has to answer his before my answer comes into being.So you expect an answer to a question someone else asked after you had already placed your vote, before you can say why you didn't ask that question?
MaxSpin, why are you Mafia!Deus Asmoth didn't answer your non-question yet. Why are you switching targets so soon?
Excuse me, IcyPrick, could you answer the question you gave kingawsum as though I asked you?Player-specific tells, definitely. General scumtells, sometimes, though they are very cyclical: the tell needs to be either so fresh that nobody knows to avoid it, or so old that people have become complacent about it.
Uh... Everybody: on a scale of 1 to cunt, how much do you hate Shakerag right now?Not at all, so 1. There are only a couple people in the world whom I hate. Why does your scale start from 1 rather than 0? Are you projecting the hate that you feel for the town, scum?
Welp, out of the House.
MaxSpin, why are you Mafia!
I don't see any other way to take an insult to one's intelligence.I just called them all dumb for no reason (other than that they are). Now killing me is not just a victory condition, but personal.So you know that the mafia is made up of players who take things personally?
Thanks.QuoteCan you link me any games where the mod was lynched? It sounds like a fun read.Neruz's Bastard Mafia Game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46294.msg918784#msg918784) was an interesting one.
It seems to be for Hector.Voting me would deprive you of the joys of having your vote on IcyTea.Why is having one's vote on me a source of joy? Why aren't you doing it?
Simple, I used my power at the beginning of the day. I pry into their business, they learn my alignment, I learn theirs. And so I repeat.I assumed you were doing it to get attention.Welp, out of the House.
MaxSpin, why are you Mafia!
Also, Nirur Torir, you kinda completely missed the post didn't you, read it. Right here. Why the non-reaction to mine?
nirur How is asking if someone doesn’t like Shakerag rolefishing?Right after getting roles? Why else would we dislike him, other than "This role's bad!"
What makes a good question?I don't know, but there are only so many things I can be bothered to think of for a first round of RVS questions.
How will the answers to the questions you asked Superdorf and MaxSpin help you figure out their alignment?It gets them talking, and hopefully committing to an action.
Why do you think I am voting IcyTea, and why do you think it’s enjoyable? /oh dirty IcyTea ninjas my precious question you sumbeachYou seem to vote him a lot, and so you seem to like it.
Day actions will be unable to be processed for a few hours. They will be processed in the order that they are received.
Aw...
Vote Deus Asmoth.
Simple, I used my power at the beginning of the day. I pry into their business, they learn my alignment, I learn theirs. And so I repeat.So you're claiming Nosy Neighbor? Why do you lead with an outright claim of a powerful role before trying to earn some towncred and not cause instant WIFOM?
I literally rolled the random.org to see who to random vote while I waited.Do you understand at all the purpose of the random votes in RVS?
IcyTea who do you hate?Nobody who has a Bay12 account. Let's leave it there; it's personal and doesn't matter for this game.
Why would a scale start at 0? That’s just silly talk. Zero is nothing, and thus not worth measuring.
I’d be more bothered that my scale measures cunt, as I don’t think that’s a unit of measurement.Firstly, it is in fact an occasionally useful unit of measurement. Secondly, why did you use it in your scale if you didn't know it? Why ask the question at all, if you don't know how high the scale can go?
I don't see any other way to take an insult to one's intelligence.Ah, I see you're not well-versed in the art of banter. True gentlemen of class can trade insults with dignity and without taking them personally. Why aren't you a gentleman of class?
Day actions will be unable to be processed for a few hours. They will be processed in the order that they are received.Aw...
Vote Deus Asmoth.
Targeted MaxSpin. Hence the Aw... I literally rolled the random.org to see who to random vote while I waited.
I don't see any other way to take an insult to one's intelligence.I just called them all dumb for no reason (other than that they are). Now killing me is not just a victory condition, but personal.So you know that the mafia is made up of players who take things personally?
QuoteIt seems to be for Hector.Voting me would deprive you of the joys of having your vote on IcyTea.Why is having one's vote on me a source of joy? Why aren't you doing it?
Last I checked, my name wasn't Hector13.
nirur How is asking if someone doesn’t like Shakerag rolefishing?Right after getting roles? Why else would we dislike him, other than "This role's bad!"QuoteWhat makes a good question?I don't know, but there are only so many things I can be bothered to think of for a first round of RVS questions.
QuoteHow will the answers to the questions you asked Superdorf and MaxSpin help you figure out their alignment?It gets them talking, and hopefully committing to an action.
QuoteWhy do you think I am voting IcyTea, and why do you think it’s enjoyable? /oh dirty IcyTea ninjas my precious question you sumbeachYou seem to vote him a lot, and so you seem to like it.
nirur How is asking if someone doesn’t like Shakerag rolefishing?Right after getting roles? Why else would we dislike him, other than "This role's bad!"
Given the lack of talk or pushing, Guessing this will go ignored for now?
IcyTea who do you hate?Nobody who has a Bay12 account. Let's leave it there; it's personal and doesn't matter for this game.
QuoteWhy would a scale start at 0? That’s just silly talk. Zero is nothing, and thus not worth measuring.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
QuoteI’d be more bothered that my scale measures cunt, as I don’t think that’s a unit of measurement.Firstly, it is in fact an occasionally useful unit of measurement. Secondly, why did you use it in your scale if you didn't know it? Why ask the question at all, if you don't know how high the scale can go?
notquitethere: Do you prefer to be town, scum, or third party, and why?I prefer to be a third party because then I only have to rely on myself and I get an interesting challenge. Unfortunately, I rolled town this time.
Nor is mine ;)What is your name? What is your quest? What is the capital of Assyria?
IcyTeaI note that none of what you say directly to me in this post seems to expect a response. Are you done with me for the time being?
IcyTea, to be honest, very little effort but probably more than some other players.Who do you believe is going to play a low-effort game?
To Everyone. What are you game Plans this game. Obvious posts, lurking, focusing on Day Game, Focusing on Night Game? Let's hear it?I tend to experiment and change my strategy between games to avoid forming a too clear personal meta. Last game I did the overt daygame.
You did kind of answer your own question, Nosy Neighbor is the only one that fits, and I'm not even going to try being friendly with someone who gave a mafia result.
There are way too many roles in that list, pretty sure I saw one that said I just gave my role to them..
Right, it's this one.
Friendly Neighbor (town; common; 3+ players): During the day, you can make someone your friend. That player will be told your alignment. Actions: (day)friend
Yeah, not trying that. At all.
Deus Asmoth: What do you believe is the reason Tric voted for you?Well, my two theories are that he's annoyed that I was the first to realise he was scum last game, or that he chose someone to vote for at random. The second is a lot more likely, but I don't know what benefit there is in it. PPE: Second theory confirmed. I still don't get it.
Uh... Everybody: on a scale of 1 to cunt, how much do you hate Shakerag right now?I'm about as ok with Shakerag as I am with everyone else.
Okay apparently there's no hammer. Probably to give everyone time to use any day actions.Or maybe the mod forgot about it. I like your explanation better, though.
I'm about as ok with Shakerag as I am with everyone else.Not OK at all? Consumed by a seething hate hidden behind a façade of civility, further obfuscated by devil-may-care casualness?
Nirur, I didn't mean to imply two votes would hammer, I was inviting players to join in on a hammer.Why do you think it would be smart to hammer on D1 before all players have posted, least of all the player to be lynched? If Spin is scum, who are his buddies? Tric claims to have mechanical knowledge of Spin's alignment; why do you believe him without question?
Well, this post makes me think of a question.Well, I'm going for higher activity levels, but I think in practice that might result in shorter posts with greater frequency.
To Everyone. What are you game Plans this game. Obvious posts, lurking, focusing on Day Game, Focusing on Night Game? Let's hear it?
How long do you think he should have withheld his inspection result for?Simple, I used my power at the beginning of the day. I pry into their business, they learn my alignment, I learn theirs. And so I repeat.So you're claiming Nosy Neighbor? Why do you lead with an outright claim of a powerful role before trying to earn some towncred and not cause instant WIFOM?
Why did you just repeat what I said?I'm about as ok with Shakerag as I am with everyone else.Not OK at all? Consumed by a seething hate hidden behind a façade of civility, further obfuscated by devil-may-care casualness?
Because Nosy Neighbor does that. Why exactly are you the one trying to discredit the result?
I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.
Because I wished to know if they were town. [1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others. [2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
Laying out the logic for me supporting a lynch candidate means that I don't want anything else to happen during the day?I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.
It disturbs me you appear happy with this being the totality of D1.
Nirur: given that we have someone claiming a scum result on someone, why not encourage people to vote for them?Everyone should bandwagon hammer a few hours into D1 based on Tric's say-so, this is defintiely the best possible result. Anyone throwing a vote onto the pile and advocating a hammer is unquestionable /sarcasm
I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.Do you really want the first two days to be all about Tric?
How long do you think he should have withheld his inspection result for?As the final nail in Spin's coffin after a well-executed D1 that also reveals his scumbuddies trying to defend him.
I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.And what on D2, especially if Tric doesn't survive the night? What would you do then, that you can't do now?
Why are you misrepresenting what's being said here? He said that if he had a town result he'd know who not to vote for and be able to lay low. Getting a scum result means that laying low isn't part of the stated plan any more.Because I wished to know if they were town. [1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others. [2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
It's already been pointed out that hammers aren't a part of this game. I expect I'll be voting for Spin at the end of the day in the absence of new information so I don't see much reason to wait.Nirur: given that we have someone claiming a scum result on someone, why not encourage people to vote for them?Everyone should bandwagon hammer a few hours into D1 based on Tric's say-so, this is defintiely the best possible result. Anyone throwing a vote onto the pile and advocating a hammer is unquestionable /sarcasm
Again, that's not what I said.I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.Do you really want the first two days to be all about Tric?
I want your analysis on what could go wrong with this.
Because I wished to know if they were town. [1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others. [2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
[2]Why not spend an inspect on one of us on D1 if you were thinking about doing it later anyway?
Nirur: given that we have someone claiming a scum result on someone, why not encourage people to vote for them?Everyone should bandwagon hammer a few hours into D1 based on Tric's say-so, this is defintiely the best possible result. Anyone throwing a vote onto the pile and advocating a hammer is unquestionable /sarcasmI guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.Do you really want the first two days to be all about Tric?
I want your analysis on what could go wrong with this.
Superdorf: What did you learn last game, and how will it affect how you play this one?
Superdorf: Would you consider yourself confident enough to falsely emulate your obvnoobtown behaviour in the last game?
Nirur, I didn't mean to imply two votes would hammer, I was inviting players to join in on a hammer.Why though? Time is precious here.
To Everyone. What are you game Plans this game. Obvious posts, lurking, focusing on Day Game, Focusing on Night Game? Let's hear it?I'm going to try to be better at finding scum, and trying to make insightful points instead of complaining about walls of attacks.
But you did just see another way to take an insult to one's intelligence, specifically that because you're insulting a particular group, that people will consequently think you're not part of that group.Surprisingly no, not until after it was brought up. I just wanted to do something more interesting with my haiku other than repeat that I'm town.
Nor is mine ;)I will capitalize your name and call it yours whenever I want, Hector13.
Why do you expect RVS to last longer than one round of questions?If needed, then yes.
Do you expect to have better questions for the second go around? If so, what?
What sort of action are you expecting?How they'll scumhunt, what they'll do. That sort of thing.
Ah, I see you're not well-versed in the art of banter. True gentlemen of class can trade insults with dignity and without taking them personally. Why aren't you a gentleman of class?I'm a kobold, not a gentlemanly human.
What else do you think you can do today having revealed your position already?Laying out the logic for me supporting a lynch candidate means that I don't want anything else to happen during the day?I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.
It disturbs me you appear happy with this being the totality of D1.
Because I wished to know if they were town. [1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others. [2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
[1]Don't say anything about the inspect at all.
[2]Why not spend an inspect on one of us on D1 if you were thinking about doing it later anyway?
[2]Inspecting one of you two does not help with an action I perform without any existing posts. MaxSpin meanwhile, is someone I wanted to check first to get him out of the way, since he is a vet too. You two tend to play off each other, and if I knew one of you was town, that would not help me with the other when you fought. You could be town too, is the process involved in that.
And claiming his role at the start of the day as the basis for his case stops Spin's scumbuddies from trying to defend him why, exactly? I'm honestly not sure what kind of D1 case could be made that would accomplish this in the first place, though.How long do you think he should have withheld his inspection result for?As the final nail in Spin's coffin after a well-executed D1 that also reveals his scumbuddies trying to defend him.
Act on known information based on Spin's flip and how people interacted with Tric's claim? Use all the juicy role powers that I might also have in the meantime? I'm not calling for people to stop talking until the end of the day, I'm stating my reasoning for my vote.I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.And what on D2, especially if Tric doesn't survive the night? What would you do then, that you can't do now?
Superdorf: What is your opinion on Tric claiming to have investigated Spin and gotten scum?
DAAre you saying you haven't revealed your position or something? I can continue doing exactly what I'm doing at the minute; ie. interacting with people about their reaction to the claim. It's refreshing to skip over RVS, to be honest. This is also a reason that your second question doesn't make a huge amount of sense. If Tric had waited until the day was half-done to claim his result what more do you think would have happened? Because my bet would be a lot of RVS stuff, followed by people talking about Tric's claim in pretty much exactly the same way that they're doing right now.What else do you think you can do today having revealed your position already?Laying out the logic for me supporting a lynch candidate means that I don't want anything else to happen during the day?I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.
It disturbs me you appear happy with this being the totality of D1.
What do you think you'll be able to divine about people forming positions from a guilty result revealed before everyone had posted?
PPE: TricMagicBecause I wished to know if they were town.[1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others.[2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
[1]Don't say anything about the inspect at all.
This is the problem, man. You say you wanted to lay low and were like "I CAN INSPECT AND HAVE A GUILTY RESULT" which is the exact opposite of laying low, so laying low didn't enter into your logic.
Despite this not being a reasonable response for any of the questions I asked, I guess it'll do.
[2]Why not spend an inspect on one of us on D1 if you were thinking about doing it later anyway?
[2]Inspecting one of you two does not help with an action I perform without any existing posts. MaxSpin meanwhile, is someone I wanted to check first to get him out of the way, since he is a vet too. You two tend to play off each other, and if I knew one of you was town, that would not help me with the other when you fought. You could be town too, is the process involved in that.
MaxSpin and I didn't interact at all in the last game, beyond my vote on him at the end of D1, which was made so I wouldn't get lynched. Where do you get that he and I play off one another?
How does knowing the alignment of one of us help with figuring out the alignment of the second, knowing that town!either of us won't know the alignment of the other, and scum!either of us is trying to show that we don't know the alignment of the other?
Are you just trying to justify your actions after the fact, and just used random.org to choose your target as well as your RVS vote?
What are you game Plans this game. Obvious posts, lurking, focusing on Day Game, Focusing on Night Game? Let's hear it?
hectorDAAre you saying you haven't revealed your position or something? I can continue doing exactly what I'm doing at the minute; ie. interacting with people about their reaction to the claim. It's refreshing to skip over RVS, to be honest. This is also a reason that your second question doesn't make a huge amount of sense. If Tric had waited until the day was half-done to claim his result what more do you think would have happened? Because my bet would be a lot of RVS stuff, followed by people talking about Tric's claim in pretty much exactly the same way that they're doing right now.What else do you think you can do today having revealed your position already?Laying out the logic for me supporting a lynch candidate means that I don't want anything else to happen during the day?I guess I'm going to lay out my reasoning for my vote here: currently Spin is the best scum-lead. If he flips town after being lynched then we'll know that Tric's inspections can't be trusted, whether because he's scum or because his inspections are faulty. If Spin flips scum then I guess we'll know who any doctors should be protecting tonight.
It disturbs me you appear happy with this being the totality of D1.
What do you think you'll be able to divine about people forming positions from a guilty result revealed before everyone had posted?
Were you planing on hunting him specifically?In the unlikely case that I had done as you did and used my inspect right out of the gate, yes.
In a 12 person game, would it even occur in that manner?I'm not sure what you mean. What does the player count have to do with anything?
Wouldn't it be likely someone else would end up the target of the lynch?Not if you scumhunted properly and convincingly. Mechanically knowing someone is scum makes it very easy to do. Ideally, you wouldn't even need to claim.
And how do you suggest I survive Maxspin and his Mafia Buddies from just deciding to kill me during the day?By acting like any other scumhunting townie and not claiming cop immediately.
It's hard to tell if it's theater or genuine town play sometimes.. And if so, which one? Or are you both town..All the world's a stage.
And claiming his role at the start of the day as the basis for his case stops Spin's scumbuddies from trying to defend him why, exactly?Fighting against a mechanical case is hard, and scum loves to bus. It's much easier to hide and just go along with the lynch. D1 cases are usually behavioural rather than mechanical, and are easier to defend against. The plan is to attack the known scum with a soft case, see who jumps in to defend, and then nail it down with the hard case if necessary. The scumbuddies lose towncred and are clear targets for the next day.
I'm honestly not sure what kind of D1 case could be made that would accomplish this in the first place, though.The same D1 case you always make, only this time you know for sure that you're right and thus can build a more confident case.
If a cop with a normal inspect found scum on N1, would you also be advocating for them to not claim that result until close to the end of D2?In my opinion, a cop should milk their results for as much information as possible, and if possible, not claim them at all unless it completely wins the game. Claiming should always be the nuclear option. If your copping looks like normal scumhunting that just happened to be effective, you're a less likely target for scum kills.
Act on known information based on Spin's flip and how people interacted with Tric's claim?That second part, there. That's the part about nailing the scumbuddies too that I've been talking about. Just replace "Tric's claim" with "Tric's soft case" and you've got just as good a starting point that doesn't involve an overt cop.
I'm going to be busy until tomorrow, and I wasn't expecting this to start off today.
TricMagic: Why did you decide to lead with that? Why do expect to trust that?
notquitethere: I've got no clue what you're talking about.
Right.. Hector, at this point, I am not one to insult your intelligence. Mostly cause you seem to conveniently step around the holes in the swiss cheese and call it Cheddar.
PPE: TricMagicBecause I wished to know if they were town.[1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others.[2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
[1]Don't say anything about the inspect at all.
This is the problem, man. You say you wanted to lay low and were like "I CAN INSPECT AND HAVE A GUILTY RESULT" which is the exact opposite of laying low, so laying low didn't enter into your logic.
Despite this not being a reasonable response for any of the questions I asked, I guess it'll do.
First, I strike the numbers you put in my quote. And look, your questions suddenly don't make sense, as the answer to the first was the very quote you split apart. You say it does not make sense, but the sentence together paints a hypothetical scenario where I received a Town result, not a Mafia result. This also applies to the other Number 1 in the quote above, hypothetical town result.
Because I wished to know if they were town. [1]If so, I'd know who not to vote for this day, and be able to lay low for the rest of it, hunting others. [2]After which, I could spend an inspect Day 2 on one of you. That is my reasoning on my choice of MaxSpin.
[1]How can you lay low and hunt at the same time?
What would you lay low for?
How is revealing you have an inspect and a guilty result laying low?
[2]Why not spend an inspect on one of us on D1 if you were thinking about doing it later anyway?
[2]Why not spend an inspect on one of us on D1 if you were thinking about doing it later anyway?
[2]Inspecting one of you two does not help with an action I perform without any existing posts. MaxSpin meanwhile, is someone I wanted to check first to get him out of the way, since he is a vet too. You two tend to play off each other, and if I knew one of you was town, that would not help me with the other when you fought. You could be town too, is the process involved in that.
MaxSpin and I didn't interact at all in the last game, beyond my vote on him at the end of D1, which was made so I wouldn't get lynched. Where do you get that he and I play off one another?
How does knowing the alignment of one of us help with figuring out the alignment of the second, knowing that town!either of us won't know the alignment of the other, and scum!either of us is trying to show that we don't know the alignment of the other?
Are you just trying to justify your actions after the fact, and just used random.org to choose your target as well as your RVS vote?
And this is just ignoring the fact that your and IcyTea often end up against each other. It's hard to tell if it's theater or genuine town play sometimes.. And if so, which one? Or are you both town..
Fun Fact! You completely ignore my Answer's structure. See formatting and the Italics.
[2]Inspecting one of you two does not help with an action I perform without any existing posts.
MaxSpin meanwhile, is someone I wanted to check first to get him out of the way, since he is a vet too.
You two tend to play off each other, and if I knew one of you was town, that would not help me with the other when you fought. You could be town too, is the process involved in that.
What do you think my position tells you about me, perhaps also in the light of IcyTea apparantly sharing it?It tells me what your position is. I was pointing it out because you seemed to be implying that my having a position on Tric's role claim meant I couldn't do anything else during the day.
Yeah RVS is shit, but 4 people had posted prior to Tric's revelation. It allows scum to come in and react to it after preparation without any sort of basis about their mindset prior to it, which means they can hide in the noise of everyone wtf'ing that someone would reveal cop D1, guilty result or not.So when do you think he should have claimed the result?
In an ideal world, sure. There's also no reason why scum are more likely to go along with that plan than just not defend their team mate against a weak day 1 case, or indeed why a town player wouldn't point out that Spin is once against being D1 lynched on a weak behavioural case. Would that make them look scummy once Spin flips?And claiming his role at the start of the day as the basis for his case stops Spin's scumbuddies from trying to defend him why, exactly?Fighting against a mechanical case is hard, and scum loves to bus. It's much easier to hide and just go along with the lynch. D1 cases are usually behavioural rather than mechanical, and are easier to defend against. The plan is to attack the known scum with a soft case, see who jumps in to defend, and then nail it down with the hard case if necessary. The scumbuddies lose towncred and are clear targets for the next day.
If a cop with a normal inspect found scum on N1, would you also be advocating for them to not claim that result until close to the end of D2?In my opinion, a cop should milk their results for as much information as possible, and if possible, not claim them at all unless it completely wins the game. Claiming should always be the nuclear option. If your copping looks like normal scumhunting that just happened to be effective, you're a less likely target for scum kills.[/quote]
I disagree.QuoteAct on known information based on Spin's flip and how people interacted with Tric's claim?That second part, there. That's the part about nailing the scumbuddies too that I've been talking about. Just replace "Tric's claim" with "Tric's soft case" and you've got just as good a starting point that doesn't involve an overt cop.
Maximum Spin: Are you going to play D1 differently than last game?Sure, it's a different game, I'll probably vote for different players!
Maximum Spin: Is it fate that you might get lynched D1?No. Sometimes I get lynched D2. :(
Maximum Spin: What alignment is TricMagic?fuck should I know? TM is hard to read due to being batshit at all available times. I mean, I guess the sensible thing to guess is mafia or third-party, but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.
Maximum Spin: Did you in fact receive TricMagic's alignment?I have not received anything but my role PM, no.
hectorWhat do you think my position tells you about me, perhaps also in the light of IcyTea apparantly sharing it?It tells me what your position is. I was pointing it out because you seemed to be implying that my having a position on Tric's role claim meant I couldn't do anything else during the day.
QuoteYeah RVS is shit, but 4 people had posted prior to Tric's revelation. It allows scum to come in and react to it after preparation without any sort of basis about their mindset prior to it, which means they can hide in the noise of everyone wtf'ing that someone would reveal cop D1, guilty result or not.So when do you think he should have claimed the result?
PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.
but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.
Uh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.
PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.
So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.Oh right.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.
Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.
Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place?Asked and answered. NQT's pileon smells way more suspicious to me. I'm absolutely willing to vote TM if things seem to be going that way, though. Actually, that does add something: NQT already had a vote and was therefore a marginally more realistic target, I guess? I didn't necessarily consciously consider that, but it probably influenced my choice.
Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?Not OBVIOUSLY, but there are some things in my role that I'm not totally clear about what they mean and have PMed Shakerag about it, so, uh, watch this space I guess?
PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.
Well, that's probably the best move you can make. As would not killing me and maybe trying to lynch me later. Or you can claim someone redirected. Or WIFOM.
Well, doesn't particularly matter right now. My role kinda reveals that, and we need to find other scum. So, hector13, why were you preparing a discredit, and why the misdirection of other's words with me as a focus?
Maximum SpinYES. Exactly. Okay, this reassures me that I am explaining this adequately.
Hm, lemme paraphrase to make sure I follow your words.
You suspect Tric might be third-party (or even town trying some crazy gambit), and you're reluctant to lynch him too quickly for that reason. At the same time, NQT jumped quickly on an easy lynch, for spotty reasons, and you therefore believe him to be mafia. Do I have that right?
I kinda have a problem with your "he-said she-said" rationale, as your vote on NQT is at least to some extent based on that "he-said she-said" squabbling. Why not just jump straight to the source? But your earlier words help explain that, assuming I understood them properly.Uh, I guess? I think there's a qualitative difference, though. One would be shouting "NO U" and asking everyone to pick between the two, you know?
What's your current read on TricMagic? Mafia? Third-party? Crazytown?Uh, I might need longer to wake up before answering that, but as of right this second, mafia. But I'm not sure whether a competent partner would have okayed this strategy? I guess it depends on how much of an easy target I look like and how much of a threat I look like, both of which I can't possibly estimate.
I don't like your argument. This in particular feels like what happened to me last game:It's exactly what I said last game, too. And what I always say.
@Max: how are you empirically a good choice for a redirect?Because apparently people like to inspect me on the first turn, since that's happened to me multiple times. Here and elsewhere, actually.
Also, why would scum gambit a fake cop claim on D1?FIIK, man. It's weird, this is why I am forbearing to guess until I at least have more brain-cylinders working.
NQT: I still want to know why you said you wanted to hammer.I'm playing in a super serious championship game and so I'll be playing this game very casual. If I was scum I'd be much more cautious. I just meant "let's just get rid of the mafia player".
In an ideal world, sure. There's also no reason why scum are more likely to go along with that plan than just not defend their team mate against a weak day 1 case, or indeed why a town player wouldn't point out that Spin is once against being D1 lynched on a weak behavioural case. Would that make them look scummy once Spin flips?It comes down to daygame skill, I suppose. I'm relatively confident I could incite some buddying against a target that I knew to be scum, and if it failed, I'd be able to keep my head down since I didn't actually claim.
The problem is that you're assuming that the cop in question is able to build the case and get town on board without claimingAgain, daygame skill. In knowing that someone is guilty, you gain the confidence to actually go through with convincing the rest of the town to vote with you; with an uncertain case you'd be more careful about it. I'm sure that anything that would alert scum would also alert the protectives. If you're a protective, you should cophunt just as much as scum does.
and also without alerting the scumteam, which also runs the risk of not alerting town players with protection abilities.Assuming the protectives are cophunting as they should, anything that alerts scum should also alert the protectives, as long as there are any. The problem with claiming is that it's guaranteed to alert everyone, which raises the stakes of the gamble of whether or not there is a protective.
fuck should I know? TM is hard to read due to being batshit at all available times. I mean, I guess the sensible thing to guess is mafia or third-party, but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.Maximum Spin. Looks like the pressure got to you again. Irritated flailing doesn't seem like town behaviour to me, especially when considering your past games as town and scum.
Someone who has looked at the generator: Can it make a power which has an effect like "redirect actions targeting your target to target yourself instead"? That's something I would do on someone who seemed likely to draw early inspects, which, empirically, I apparently am.Yes, there is the Magnet role, though it's night only. But why would you do that? This would only confuse the cop unless you both claimed, and if you die before then, the cop has an "innocent" result on you that they think is on someone else, for possibly disastrous results.
Hmm. Somebody's lying. Gotta figger out who.Who do you think is lying? Read people's arguments and consider why they made them, and not some other arguments. Ask more questions.
The theory of Tric's ability being redirected seems very unlikely to me, considering how early in the day he claimed and the fact that there isn't a day-redirect that I can find on the list; it would require the use of a randomized ability.Now that I look closer, there isn't a day-random either. Day abilities seem pretty rare overall.
Also NQT didn’t give the explanation I expected. Slight sad.You wanted me to say my signature line notquitethere is not quite here?
That Bad-Ass Nurse in an Action Movie
Nurse: When the doctor dies, you become a Doctor.
<50%> One-Shot Vigilante: You can kill other players. Your ability can only be used once. <This role's actions only work 50% of the time.> Actions: kill (1 use)
<Paranoid> Inspector Gadget: You may inspect once per night, or do a random nonkill action. You may or may not be sane. <A paranoid cop always gets mafia results.> Actions: inspect special
Mystery <Mad Monk>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can kill another player each night. You are immune to all actions except kills.> Actions: mystery
Computer Hacker: You may hack another player's action, modifying it randomly. Actions: hack
Elite Forest Ranger
Redirecter: You can redirect another player's ability to target another player. Actions: redirect
Stalker: You can choose to either inspect someone or kill someone. Actions: inspect kill
Amnesiac <Mafioso>: You have lost your memory. You might eventually regain it. <An amnesiac mafioso eventually becomes a Mafioso and changes teams.>
Devil's Advocate: You can't kill at night, instead you may inspect any player and determine their alignment and role. You may kill players only during the day. Actions: inspect (day)kill
One-Shot Redirecter (town, mafia; common; 3+ players): You can redirect another player's ability to target another player. Your ability can only be used once. Actions: redirect (1 use)
Superdorf: Still want to vote TricMagic?No. No I do not. Unvote.
I am down to here in the list... Shakerag, would Nosy Neighbor tell the user they were mafia even if they didn't remember it? Unlikely, but it is the first so far that would mean something at all. Millers don't count to nosy neighbors, as we aren't cops.Is it possible for a player to start a game not knowing their alignment?
If I was scum I'd be much more cautious.WIFOM much? Why make this statement?
Persus13: What are your biggest mafia strengths?Strengths as Mafia or strengths playing Mafia? But honestly, I have no clue either way.
Nosy Neighbors can't be crazy, so Max couldn't claim that without being called out for lying. Claiming it didn't happen or Miller was his best course of action.but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.QuoteUh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.
Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.
Persus13: What is your opinion on bandwagon analysis as a scumhunting tactic?You're dead now, but for the record, my response was going to be as follows:
Pry on Ctrl+F only appears as nosy neighbor, so I don't think it has an insane roll. Last game I lost cause I didn't know their were no neighbors in it, so I checked.If you had waited for Max Spin to post and get him to say your alignment, you could have had confirmation that your neighbor ability worked, and had a much better case. Instead you gave him an opportunity to lie his way out of a situation. It didn't work for him, but that's just because someone decided to daykill him.
Also, isn't there a day-kill ability in there somewhere? I used my ability immediately, then got the info out there before a hypothetical kill could occur. The entire point is for the info to be out there, and if there is a scrub ability in that list, or a simple frame if I die, that will be known.
You did kind of answer your own question, Nosy Neighbor is the only one that fits, and I'm not even going to try being friendly with someone who gave a mafia result.Aura does the same thing.
To Everyone. What are you game Plans this game. Obvious posts, lurking, focusing on Day Game, Focusing on Night Game? Let's hear it?This setup is fairly power heavy, so I know a lot of people, including myself, will probably be focusing on that. However, that often comes at the cost of inactivity in the day game, and that's going to be a problem.
Mine is to slowly but surely pick apart at all of you until I've collected enough town members to win the game. And not in a cult way, but a Friends kinda way, I'm nosy like that.
I don't quite consider either of NQT or Persus vets, mostly cause I usually play with you three since arriving here. Don't know NQT other than as a GM.Pretty sure me and NQT have been playing Bay12 Mafia here the longest out of the players in this game.
Persus, are you sure you have no idea what I mean?Yes. Can you please stop choosing me for gambits? I still remember you repeatedly insisting I needed to die without stating or having any actual reasons why D1.
What I am worried about, as it's a semi-bastard, is that Tric's inspect is worthless and we'll kill town on it. But as Max Spin has hardly shown himself well since the reveal, I'm more confident about it being right.It would be worthless if he was a cop or a variant of it. Nosy Neighbors don't have a chance to be paranoid.
Superdorf - scum for voting TricWhy would a scum player vote Tric?
Yeah, I missed that too. It helps when people make a formal claim instead of something that looks exactly like an RVS vote.Superdorf: What is your opinion on Tric claiming to have investigated Spin and gotten scum?
I'm, uh, processing that now. I'll be honest, I just skimmed this thing for my own name on the first read, and didn't see the whole TricMagic thing 'til I was already writing up questions. Gimme a sec, I'll try and weigh in on that mess...
Persus13: You were pretty quiet during the whole Tric/Max mess. Will that change, now that mess has blown over?I was super busy yesterday, and then I was asleep. So I should be less busy now. You're not going to respond to NQT calling you scum?
notquitethereIf I was scum I'd be much more cautious.WIFOM much? Why make this statement?
I went to sleep early yesterday, and I just found out that the game had already started.I definitely understand this one.
PPE: And just when I was going to post, I find out that both IcyTea and Maximum Spin are dead. I think this game might be going too fast for me.
ShakeragNo.I am down to here in the list... Shakerag, would Nosy Neighbor tell the user they were mafia even if they didn't remember it? Unlikely, but it is the first so far that would mean something at all. Millers don't count to nosy neighbors, as we aren't cops.Is it possible for a player to start a game not knowing their alignment?
You're not going to respond to NQT calling you scum?
Superdorf - scum for voting Tric
Persus13 - who knows what he knowsNow that Persus has claimed not to know what he allegedly knows, do you have anything to reveal?
You can take it as WIFOM if you like, but it's literally true though. Scum tend to be more cautious players, right?If I was scum I'd be much more cautious.WIFOM much? Why make this statement?
Now that Persus has claimed not to know what he allegedly knows, do you have anything to reveal?I'll reveal exactly what I mean by all this on D2, I promise.
Yes. Can you please stop choosing me for gambits? I still remember you repeatedly insisting I needed to die without stating or having any actual reasons why D1.I'm sorry Persus, I really don't mean to be cyberbullying you. This is just weird stuff re: my role pm. It's not in town's interest's for me to say why today, but I'll explain it all D2.
It would be worthless if he was a cop or a variant of it. Nosy Neighbors don't have a chance to be paranoid.Good point.
Why would a scum player vote Tric?Because once Max flips, Tric would be conftown, so it'd be handy to get rid of them before that.
Do you think Kit is lurking?Maybe. Increasingly likely. It's been well over 24 hours and he's given us exactly nothing to work with, despite a glut of material to comment on. That in and of itself isn't enough to call him mafia, but I want him speaking his mind regardless. How are we supposed to get a read on him otherwise?
I was working on this post when the daykills happened,so some of it might be out of date now.Are you seriously arguing my question, with an argument fully unrelated to my attack against now-confirmed scum?
Nirur Torir:Nosy Neighbors can't be crazy, so Max couldn't claim that without being called out for lying. Claiming it didn't happen or Miller was his best course of action.but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.QuoteUh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.
Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.
Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.Interesting argument.
Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum.TricMagic is confirmed to not be scum. But town is a lot more likely than 3rd party.
Persus13 - Slight Scum lean. You only posted something after the kill.Yeah, ignore the stuff I posted before the kill saying I was super busy and I wouldn't be able to post until tomorrow.
So can you stop rolefishing me until then please? Also, even if you know something about my role, that doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to know it.Yes. Can you please stop choosing me for gambits? I still remember you repeatedly insisting I needed to die without stating or having any actual reasons why D1.I'm sorry Persus, I really don't mean to be cyberbullying you. This is just weird stuff re: my role pm. It's not in town's interest's for me to say why today, but I'll explain it all D2.
Even when Max has 4 votes on them and is obviously scum?Why would a scum player vote Tric?Because once Max flips, Tric would be conftown, so it'd be handy to get rid of them before that.
Are you seriously arguing my question, with an argument fully unrelated to my attack against now-confirmed scum?I'm informing you of mechanical information you didn't seem to be aware of. NQT is usually the mechanical guy, and even he missed that. And sure you're attacking someone who was scum in that post. That doesn't make you town.
I was working on this post when the daykills happened,so some of it might be out of date now.Are you seriously arguing my question, with an argument fully unrelated to my attack against now-confirmed scum?
Nirur Torir:Nosy Neighbors can't be crazy, so Max couldn't claim that without being called out for lying. Claiming it didn't happen or Miller was his best course of action.but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.QuoteUh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.
Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.Interesting argument.
Why not bus fellow scum after they've just been daycopped? Are you trying to direct a narrative to make someone seem like town, Randomgenericusername?
Superdorf: I get a third party vibe from you, since your D1 is much weaker this time around. Get to doing more.
Everyone: Having looked at the Xylbot list more closely, I've come to the conclusion that most inspects are non-sane, as there is an equal chance for each sanity, and there are more non-sane than sane inspects. For certain inspect roles, there even actually isn't a sane version at all. I recommend searching each of your role names to see what's possible, and to be careful about your results.
QuoteEveryone: Having looked at the Xylbot list more closely, I've come to the conclusion that most inspects are non-sane, as there is an equal chance for each sanity, and there are more non-sane than sane inspects. For certain inspect roles, there even actually isn't a sane version at all. I recommend searching each of your role names to see what's possible, and to be careful about your results.
If there's a higher chance of having something like a paranoid cop instead of a nornal one, then scum would have argued about the possibility of it being just a wrong report. But instead, NQT and Deus Asmoth both jumped in a bandwagon against him almost immediately, which was what probably resulted on Macimum Spin's death. I just doubt scum would vote one of their scumbuddies instead of even trying to defend him.
(By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
He was an Amnesiac about being a Mafioso, not about being Mafia. Shakerag said this wasn't balanced and would be weird, so I imagine this was part of it.QuoteEveryone: Having looked at the Xylbot list more closely, I've come to the conclusion that most inspects are non-sane, as there is an equal chance for each sanity, and there are more non-sane than sane inspects. For certain inspect roles, there even actually isn't a sane version at all. I recommend searching each of your role names to see what's possible, and to be careful about your results.
If there's a higher chance of having something like a paranoid cop instead of a nornal one, then scum would have argued about the possibility of it being just a wrong report. But instead, NQT and Deus Asmoth both jumped in a bandwagon against him almost immediately, which was what probably resulted on Macimum Spin's death. I just doubt scum would vote one of their scumbuddies instead of even trying to defend him.
Remember that I also gave my own role at that time. That's not cop. And as Mafia, Maxspin would know that, and share it.
Don't get how you can both be amnesiac and know you happen to be mafia though..
I'm informing you of mechanical information you didn't seem to be aware of. NQT is usually the mechanical guy, and even he missed that. And sure you're attacking someone who was scum in that post. That doesn't make you town.Were you just trying to say that, since he couldn't claim Tric got a fake result, he was cornered and couldn't make sensible arguments.
Maybe because most investigations actually have a higher chance of having a wrong result inatead of a correct one, so scum would probably have expected town to think that it might have been wrong.Most people arguing about it are saying that the role Tric's claiming can't generate with false results. It was even argued in the pose you quoted.
Scum tend to be more cautious players, right?Ye-e-ess... but town's got no call to be throwing hammers around either, and making statements like that is just asking for "But that's what they want us to think!" logic.
If there's a higher chance of having something like a paranoid cop instead of a nornal one, then scum would have argued about the possibility of it being just a wrong report. But instead, NQT and Deus Asmoth both jumped in a bandwagon against him almost immediately, which was what probably resulted on Macimum Spin's death. I just doubt scum would vote one of their scumbuddies instead of even trying to defend him.
No. I was letting you know that Nosy Neighbors can't be Paranoid. The last two sentences of my previous post were because your last post came off as "I was attacking a scum player. Back off".I'm informing you of mechanical information you didn't seem to be aware of. NQT is usually the mechanical guy, and even he missed that. And sure you're attacking someone who was scum in that post. That doesn't make you town.Were you just trying to say that, since he couldn't claim Tric got a fake result, he was cornered and couldn't make sensible arguments.
Why the "That doesn't make you town" added at the end? Nothing makes anyone town.
Maybe because most investigations actually have a higher chance of having a wrong result inatead of a correct one, so scum would probably have expected town to think that it might have been wrong.Most people arguing about it are saying that the role Tric's claiming can't generate with false results. It was even argued in the pose you quoted.
Persus13: What are you trying to accomplish with these mechanical ruminations?If you don't understand the game you're playing, why play? Also this is a rolepower heavy game, as evidenced by the two daykills. Mechanics is going to be important to winning the game.
Shakerag: Would a town player with Amnesiac Mafioso switch alignments once they recovered their memory?Yes.
Shakerag: How inactive does somebody have to be to merit a replacement?You know, I don't really have a rule for that either ... let's go with 48 hours and you get modkilled. Ain't nobody got time to wait around for replacements.
Hm, alright... let's have some more mechanics, then. Who d'you suppose killed off IcyTea? Is Max Spin's killer a vigilante or an SK?Persus13: What are you trying to accomplish with these mechanical ruminations?If you don't understand the game you're playing, why play? Also this is a rolepower heavy game, as evidenced by the two daykills. Mechanics is going to be important to winning the game.
Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.Why are myself, Nirur and yourself discounted as potential scum? A couple of people have already pointed out that bussing based on an inspection result is fairly standard scum play.
*appears so he doesn't get mod-smited*
Howdy. I'm town I swear. Good lynches, folks.
*disappears*
*appears so he doesn't get mod-smited*
Howdy. I'm town I swear. Good lynches, folks.
*disappears*
EBWOP
TricMagic: Your reasons for lynching Hector revolve around your belief that he performed the daykill on IcyTea, yes? Why are you so sure he's the killer?
hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died.
NQT:Because the last time I attacked NQT this game when his wording could be taken scummy, this was his response:Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.Why are myself, Nirur and yourself discounted as potential scum? A couple of people have already pointed out that bussing based on an inspection result is fairly standard scum play.
Nirur Torir,: why didn't you have any issue with the above quote from NQT if you're suspicious of RGU for essentially the same line of reasoning?
He's playing this casual, for good reasons, so I plan to be giving him the benefit of the doubt on his wording unless it's something particularly egrarious.NQT: I still want to know why you said you wanted to hammer.I'm playing in a super serious championship game and so I'll be playing this game very casual. If I was scum I'd be much more cautious. I just meant "let's just get rid of the mafia player".
No. I was letting you know that Nosy Neighbors can't be Paranoid. The last two sentences of my previous post were because your last post came off as "I was attacking a scum player. Back off".But why did you see fit to let me know this?
This is not a quote by me.Oops, sorry, format error, that was RGU.
Maybe because most investigations actually have a higher chance of having a wrong result inatead of a correct one, so scum would probably have expected town to think that it might have been wrong.Most people arguing about it are saying that the role Tric's claiming can't generate with false results. It was even argued in the pose you quoted.
*appears so he doesn't get mod-smited*You. What are you even playing at?
Howdy. I'm town I swear. Good lynches, folks.
*disappears*
hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.
So, you targeted DA then, Tric?
(By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
Why's this obvious? Because Shakerag reported both kills at the same time?
Also, I wanna hear this case of yours.
notquitethereScum tend to be more cautious players, right?Ye-e-ess... but town's got no call to be throwing hammers around either, and making statements like that is just asking for "But that's what they want us to think!" logic.
randomgenericusernameIf there's a higher chance of having something like a paranoid cop instead of a nornal one, then scum would have argued about the possibility of it being just a wrong report. But instead, NQT and Deus Asmoth both jumped in a bandwagon against him almost immediately, which was what probably resulted on Macimum Spin's death. I just doubt scum would vote one of their scumbuddies instead of even trying to defend him.
Tric's claiming Nosy Neighbor, not Cop. From what I'm hearing, there is no insanity modifier on that particular role. It's possible scum could back up Max's "I never got nosed!" assertion, but increasingly risky for increasingly less reward. Why bother?
You seem awfully certain those two are town, but that's by no means a sure thing right now. I don't like it.
Hmm. Somebody's lying. Gotta figger out who. Gotta throw my vote somewhere too.
Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place? Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?
TricMagic: Max claims never to have received this alignment confirmation of yours. Do you think he's lying?
Everyone: In what situations (bar Tric lying through his teeth, of course) might Max not have received this alignment notification?
Maximum Spin
Hm, lemme paraphrase to make sure I follow your words.
You suspect Tric might be third-party (or even town trying some crazy gambit), and you're reluctant to lynch him too quickly for that reason. At the same time, NQT jumped quickly on an easy lynch, for spotty reasons, and you therefore believe him to be mafia. Do I have that right?
I kinda have a problem with your "he-said she-said" rationale, as your vote on NQT is at least to some extent based on that "he-said she-said" squabbling. Why not just jump straight to the source? But your earlier words help explain that, assuming I understood them properly.
What's your current read on TricMagic? Mafia? Third-party? Crazytown?
This is exactly as fast as I like my games.
TricMagic, Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.
This leaves...
Persus13 - who knows what he knows
Superdorf - scum for voting Tric
hector13 - probably also scum
KitRougard - ? ? ?
kingawsume ? ?
randomgenericusername ?
IcyTea obviously daykilled by Max.
You can take it as WIFOM if you like, but it's literally true though. Scum tend to be more cautious players, right?If I was scum I'd be much more cautious.WIFOM much? Why make this statement?
Now that Persus has claimed not to know what he allegedly knows, do you have anything to reveal?I'll reveal exactly what I mean by all this on D2, I promise.Yes. Can you please stop choosing me for gambits? I still remember you repeatedly insisting I needed to die without stating or having any actual reasons why D1.I'm sorry Persus, I really don't mean to be cyberbullying you. This is just weird stuff re: my role pm. It's not in town's interest's for me to say why today, but I'll explain it all D2.
Why would a scum player vote Tric?Because once Max flips, Tric would be conftown, so it'd be handy to get rid of them before that.
Ugh. Someday I'll learn to stop sheeping people. For now, I'm just gonna flail around and see what happens.
KitRougard: You're good with mechanics, aren't you? Get over here and weigh in on this mechanics. Unless you have something to hide?
kingawesume: You too, ya dirty lurker. Let's see some opinions out of you.
randomgenericusername: Heyy, you're here! Quick, poke somebody and see what happens!
TricMagic: Congratulations, you're confirmed town. Care to throw a readlist our way, now that we know we can trust your word?
Persus13: You were pretty quiet during the whole Tric/Max mess. Will that change, now that mess has blown over?
notquitethereIf I was scum I'd be much more cautious.WIFOM much? Why make this statement?
Hector13: How has your understanding of the game changed after these recent roleflips?
Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.
Between those that were against the Maximum Spin lynch were Nirur Torir and hector13, I think. Nirur Torir later voted for Maximum Spin too, and I completely agreed with hector13's arguments against TricMagic, so I can see it as him just getting "confused" by TricMagic's bizarre logic. (By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
Out of everyone, Superdorf just seems the most likely to be scum. I'll try to build a case against him later, since I don't really have much time currently. Did I miss anything else?
hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.
It is banana bullying time in F/GO. Thankfully, I'm set. So, to the read list.
Superdorf - Eh, not much. Not likely to be Mafia though.
TricMagic -Either Confirmed Town, or SK. Either Way, my method is still the same, and there is likely a doctor still around. Max Dying today does ruin a game plan though, good on the one who removed them if not town, and bad if someone else killed them.
Nirur Torir - N/A. Why reference last game earlier, get to hunting. Better than a Null read at least.
Persus13 - Slight Scum lean. You only posted something after the kill.
hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.
KitRougard - Null.
kingawsume - Also Null.
randomgenericusername - Also, Also, Null.
Deus Asmoth - Slight Town.
notquitethere - N/A. I'm watching, and that question before another's death is strangely timed. As is immediately calling out Superdorf as scum, despite of an unvote before that post. Voting me is not really indicative of a scum alignment in itself.
Quotehector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.
Hector has yet to reply to this.
To note, between Page 3 and 6, it seems like hector was trying to do something to discredit me.
He was also messing with others wording while ignoring the words behind them.
It is also bad form that he split my quote into [1] & [2]...
...and later on said there were 3.
This as well kinda explains his entire view at the moment.So, you targeted DA then, Tric?
I voted Maxspin you dolt. I know you're smarter than that.
Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?If the player's starting role is anything but Mafia then no, not until the amnesia is cured.
It's obvious since he was both mafia and had a daykill, and if I was mafia in his situation I would have use it too. He was getting votes, and IcyTeam31 was in the middle of building a case against him, so he probably decided to use it now before it was too late. The few times I've played with IcyTea, he seems to have a strong town game even when he's not part of it, so it would help scum to get rid of him early.
Cop was an example, since almost all investigative roles have negative modifiers, like paranoid, naive or insane. And losing a scum member this early is pretty bad for the scum, so that's why I dom't believe they aren't scum as they didn't even try to defend him or doubt TricMagic's claim.
About that, you were one of the few to doubt the Nosy Neighbor claim.
So there's TricMagic, who claims to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. And, despite attacking and pressuring Maximum Spin in the same post, you vote for TricMagic, the one who claimed to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. This doesn't make much sense to me. What made you trust Maximum Spin over him, despite that he was even absent for most of the day?
Max had a day kill, was active beforehand, and knew his days were numbered. Why wouldn't he have fired off a day kill? As for who killed him, speculating on their alignment is pointless because there's nothing clear cut either way. Who are you most suspicious of right now?Hm, alright... let's have some more mechanics, then. Who d'you suppose killed off IcyTea? Is Max Spin's killer a vigilante or an SK?Persus13: What are you trying to accomplish with these mechanical ruminations?If you don't understand the game you're playing, why play? Also this is a rolepower heavy game, as evidenced by the two daykills. Mechanics is going to be important to winning the game.
I let you know that because I was "informing you of mechanical information you didn't seem to be aware of." Like I said in my initial response to your question. You seem to have a problem with that but are beating around the bush instead of actually saying something.No. I was letting you know that Nosy Neighbors can't be Paranoid. The last two sentences of my previous post were because your last post came off as "I was attacking a scum player. Back off".But why did you see fit to let me know this?
It was not relevant to my attack.
It felt like you were trying to alter my attack into something else.
Also, thanks goes to Persus for actually reading the role list. I've taken a glance over it regarding some of my own role questions now as well.Thanks, but I haven't actually read the full role list, I just know some of what's available from King of the Mafia, and have been using Control F to find a bunch of stuff because I was curious.
That's reasonable point about SD actually. I wonder if KitRougard is like beetlejuice.
Hector is hedging a lot, which I don't like, but he is putting some effort in, which I do like (and is not something I can particularly do rn)
Also, thanks goes to Persus for actually reading the role list. I've taken a glance over it regarding some of my own role questions now as well.
Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso hadn't remembered who they were yet, would they inspect as mafia or town? Also, did the trigger to remember happen at the start of D1?Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.
Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.Interesting. This includes D1, yes?
Yes.Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.Interesting. This includes D1, yes?
Hm. One more question: you say an inspection on an inactive amnesiac mafioso would read as town. What about a roleflip on a dead inactive amnesiac mafioso?Same answer. Substitute inspect for roleflip.
He's playing this casual, for good reasons, so I plan to be giving him the benefit of the doubt on his wording unless it's something particularly egrarious.
In this case, it's a brief reads list. I'm reading it as he doesn't think we're mafia based on what's happened so far, not that we're confirmed not mafia.
RGU does not get the same benefit of the doubt from me, and the way I read his post felt less like a reads list and more of a narrative spinning exercise.
*appears so he doesn't get mod-smited*
Howdy. I'm town I swear. Good lynches, folks.
*disappears*
Shakes: Would the role Nosy Neighbour be subject to various sanities in this game? (insane, paranoid, whatever the random one is etc.)Only if there is an insane/paranoid/etc Nosy Neighbour role in the Xylbot list. Or a role that would affect inspect inspections across the board (which I'm not sure if there is).
Hm. So Max's amnesia most likely did indeed activate at the start of the Day, and Tric's inspection was sound. Lovely.Shakerag literally just said that information in brackets was hidden form the player, and Mafioso in Amnesiac Mafioso was in brackets. So I don't think that he was just scum all along.
EBWOP: This last sentence should say: I don't think that he activated D1 and he was just scum all along.Hm. So Max's amnesia most likely did indeed activate at the start of the Day, and Tric's inspection was sound. Lovely.Shakerag literally just said that information in brackets was hidden form the player, and Mafioso in Amnesiac Mafioso was in brackets. So I don't think that he was just scum all along.
Nirur:I suppose it's because RGU's post is more meandering, he claims they're confirmed town or probably town instead of NGU's "clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party." (And, yes, perhaps my vibe from the post is slightly tainted by whether or not they think I'm cleared. I'm human.)He's playing this casual, for good reasons, so I plan to be giving him the benefit of the doubt on his wording unless it's something particularly egrarious.
In this case, it's a brief reads list. I'm reading it as he doesn't think we're mafia based on what's happened so far, not that we're confirmed not mafia.
RGU does not get the same benefit of the doubt from me, and the way I read his post felt less like a reads list and more of a narrative spinning exercise.
What you're saying here doesn't pass muster. RGU's post said he doubted people were scum based on their behaviour. That's the same meaning that you've ascribed to NQT's post. For some reason it's scummy when RGU actually says that and not when you assume that's what NQT meant?
This is exactly as fast as I like my games.
TricMagic, Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.
This leaves...
Persus13 - who knows what he knows
Superdorf - scum for voting Tric
hector13 - probably also scum
KitRougard - ? ? ?
kingawsume ? ?
randomgenericusername ?
IcyTea obviously daykilled by Max.
Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.Emphasis mine because
Between those that were against the Maximum Spin lynch were Nirur Torir and hector13, I think. Nirur Torir later voted for Maximum Spin too, and I completely agreed with hector13's arguments against TricMagic, so I can see it as him just getting "confused" by TricMagic's bizarre logic. (By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
Out of everyone, Superdorf just seems the most likely to be scum. I'll try to build a case against him later, since I don't really have much time currently. Did I miss anything else?
RGU's post said he doubted people were scum based on their behaviour.He said Tric was confirmed town, and that these other people were probably town.
I'll go check the previous game. He should use the same formatting for whether someone dead had information revealed.Hm. So Max's amnesia most likely did indeed activate at the start of the Day, and Tric's inspection was sound. Lovely.Shakerag literally just said that information in brackets was hidden form the player, and Mafioso in Amnesiac Mafioso was in brackets. So I don't think that he was just scum all along.
But he had to be scum all along. Even if his original role wasn't scum the Amnesiac would have had to trigger at the beginning of Day 1 for him to flip as mafia.Hm. So Max's amnesia most likely did indeed activate at the start of the Day, and Tric's inspection was sound. Lovely.Shakerag literally just said that information in brackets was hidden form the player, and Mafioso in Amnesiac Mafioso was in brackets. So I don't think that he was just scum all along.
EBWOP: This last sentence should say: I don't think that he activated D1 and he was just scum all along.Hm. So Max's amnesia most likely did indeed activate at the start of the Day, and Tric's inspection was sound. Lovely.Shakerag literally just said that information in brackets was hidden form the player, and Mafioso in Amnesiac Mafioso was in brackets. So I don't think that he was just scum all along.
Why not bus fellow scum after they've just been daycopped? Are you trying to direct a narrative to make someone seem like town, Randomgenericusername?
Nirur: Don't try to move the goalposts, please.Moving the goalposts? What?Why not bus fellow scum after they've just been daycopped? Are you trying to direct a narrative to make someone seem like town, Randomgenericusername?
This is the reason you gave for voting RGU. Tric wasn't part of that then, and wasn't what I was asking you about.
Stellar sarcasm, broseph. I'm in awe of your talents.Nirur: Don't try to move the goalposts, please.Moving the goalposts? What?Why not bus fellow scum after they've just been daycopped? Are you trying to direct a narrative to make someone seem like town, Randomgenericusername?
This is the reason you gave for voting RGU. Tric wasn't part of that then, and wasn't what I was asking you about.
His words about Tric are part of the post that I read like he was trying to directing the narrative towards certain people being town.
The words are part of the post that I felt was trying to direct the narrative.
Yes. Two people can say the same thing, in different ways, one of which reads as scummy.
WOW!
Nirur:I suppose it's because RGU's post is more meandering, he claims they're confirmed town or probably town instead of NGU's "clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party." (And, yes, perhaps my vibe from the post is slightly tainted by whether or not they think I'm cleared. I'm human.)He's playing this casual, for good reasons, so I plan to be giving him the benefit of the doubt on his wording unless it's something particularly egrarious.
In this case, it's a brief reads list. I'm reading it as he doesn't think we're mafia based on what's happened so far, not that we're confirmed not mafia.
RGU does not get the same benefit of the doubt from me, and the way I read his post felt less like a reads list and more of a narrative spinning exercise.
What you're saying here doesn't pass muster. RGU's post said he doubted people were scum based on their behaviour. That's the same meaning that you've ascribed to NQT's post. For some reason it's scummy when RGU actually says that and not when you assume that's what NQT meant?
For easy reference, here's the two posts in question, one of which bothers me more than the other.This is exactly as fast as I like my games.
TricMagic, Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.
This leaves...
Persus13 - who knows what he knows
Superdorf - scum for voting Tric
hector13 - probably also scum
KitRougard - ? ? ?
kingawsume ? ?
randomgenericusername ?
IcyTea obviously daykilled by Max.Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.Emphasis mine because
Between those that were against the Maximum Spin lynch were Nirur Torir and hector13, I think. Nirur Torir later voted for Maximum Spin too, and I completely agreed with hector13's arguments against TricMagic, so I can see it as him just getting "confused" by TricMagic's bizarre logic. (By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
Out of everyone, Superdorf just seems the most likely to be scum. I'll try to build a case against him later, since I don't really have much time currently. Did I miss anything else?Quote from: HectorRGU's post said he doubted people were scum based on their behaviour.He said Tric was confirmed town, and that these other people were probably town.
This is different from what you just said. Are you being misrepresenting on purpose?
So your case on RGU and lack thereof on NQT rests on what you think they actually meant while saying the same thing, and also the fact that RGU didn't say he thought you were town while NQT did?I wasn't making a case, don't put words in my mouth. I was trying to be pressuring on someone I thought acted strangely, and seeing how he responded. And you, apparently, get offended by attempted pressure on RGU.
So your case on RGU and lack thereof on NQT rests on what you think they actually meant while saying the same thing, and also the fact that RGU didn't say he thought you were town while NQT did?I wasn't making a case, don't put words in my mouth. I was trying to be pressuring on someone I thought acted strangely, and seeing how he responded. And you, apparently, get offended by attempted pressure on RGU.
Interesting, but I'm tired and don't expect to have much time before the lynch.
Kitrogue is outright trolling at this point, and nobody's made a stronger case for a D1 lynch on someone living.
Out of curiousity, what do the folks who want to lynch Kit thing of Kingasume, who has 0 posts?EWOP: Think, not thing.
Yes this is what I do. Normally.
I'm built for 30 min to 1 hour games. Not DAYS.
Out of curiousity, what do the folks who want to lynch Kit thing of Kingasume, who has 0 posts?
I’m calling bullshit (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=123055) on this being a deliberate ploy of his. Since in’ing for this game he’s posted three times on the entire forum, once here and twice in another forum game.
If you can explain to me how that’s somehow dishonest lurking (which means what, exactly? How would honest lurking be better?) and also how that’s deliberate, and how all this makes him scum, I’ll abandon my objections and vote with you.
However, beetlejuice had to be recited three times before he would appear, so
KitRougard
So yeah, your vote is in the wrong place. Activity is not alignment indicative (and it’s been a goddamn long time since I’ve got to pop that maxim in a game) else I’d be town 100% of the time.
Wait wait wait, Hector?However, beetlejuice had to be recited three times before he would appear, so
KitRougardSo yeah, your vote is in the wrong place. Activity is not alignment indicative (and it’s been a goddamn long time since I’ve got to pop that maxim in a game) else I’d be town 100% of the time.
What changed?
No, I asked you why you felt that RGU was worth pressuring and NQT wasn't. What difference exactly do you see between making a case and claiming that someone is scummy while voting for them?So your case on RGU and lack thereof on NQT rests on what you think they actually meant while saying the same thing, and also the fact that RGU didn't say he thought you were town while NQT did?I wasn't making a case, don't put words in my mouth. I was trying to be pressuring on someone I thought acted strangely, and seeing how he responded. And you, apparently, get offended by attempted pressure on RGU.
You think I’m slight scum but are perfectly happy to vote for Nirur, the same person I’m voting for, even though you seem to expect Nirur to flip town. Why is that?
To be fair, there are forums where Mafia is a lot faster paced than Bay12.Yes this is what I do. Normally.
I'm built for 30 min to 1 hour games. Not DAYS.
You complain as though it’s a surprise to you that forum mafia lasts this long. This is probably going to be the quickest and most ToS like game you’ve played so far, man.
As for the rest, it seems to come down to Kit and Nirur Torir. But as a last question for day 1, who should I check and why?No one should answer this question until after N1. Scum already know you've got an invest. They don't need to know more than that.
Also, I'm asking you guys your opinions on who to check, doesn't mean I'm going to do so.
Nobody’s made a case stronger than “he hasn’t posted”? Have you paid any attention? Tric’s case against me is stronger than that, and his case sucks.It was a spite vote as much as anything else. I get pretty annoyed by stuff like "I'm playing but not really lol."
D’you maybe want to reconsider?
I mean, that's true. I also find weird that he attacked me and not NQT if what the others are saying is correct and we both had essentially the same stance. That he later jumped on the bandwagon against someone who isn't even here could also be an attempt to get a non-scum member easily lynched day 1, leaving us at disadvantage.Same stance, different words. Wording is important.
No, I asked you why you felt that RGU was worth pressuring and NQT wasn't. What difference exactly do you see between making a case and claiming that someone is scummy while voting for them?Making a case is trying to convince other that "People should vote him, because he is scummy, because X."
Also, I'm asking you guys your opinions on who to check, doesn't mean I'm going to do so.
If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.Since Maximum Spin was a Mafioso Amnesiac, it's probable scum didn't really know he was part of their team either. It could have been scum just voting him thinking TricMagic's report was just wrong.
Deus Asmoth: What are you hoping to accomplish with your back and forth with Nirur Torir?Well my original post's aim was to ask about what I felt was an inconsistency in his opinion about NQT and RGU doing what I felt was essentially the same thing reads-wise, the following one was setting out why I was voting for him in response to his reply, and the following two were addressing claims that I was deliberately misrepresenting what was said or putting words in his mouth. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.
Unless I've misunderstood something, this isn't possible. Scum should have known that Spin was on their team as soon as he became scum, either at the start of the game itself or when his amnesiac trigger happened at the beginning of the day.If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.Since Maximum Spin was a Mafioso Amnesiac, it's probable scum didn't really know he was part of their team either. It could have been scum just voting him thinking TricMagic's report was just wrong.
If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.I'd argue that his initial reaction to the claim shows that more than the vote itself, considering that his first response was to vote for the person voting for Spin and continue bringing up hammering as a bad idea after it was already pointed out that hammers aren't in play.
and the following two were addressing claims that I was deliberately misrepresenting what was said or putting words in his mouth. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.You definitely are misrepresenting me though:
If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.I'd argue that his initial reaction to the claim shows that more than the vote itself, considering that his first response was to vote for the person voting for Spin and continue bringing up hammering as a bad idea after it was already pointed out that hammers aren't in play.
If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.Voting Max for telling a strange story in the face of a cop claim is something I would do as scum. That doesn't mean NT is scum for doing it, but it does mean the only person in the Max Tric interaction that I'm confident isn't Mafia is Tric.
Rogue Robocop
Death Arsonist: You can prime a player at night by dousing them in gasoline. During the day, you may set a fire which kills all primed players. If you die, your fire goes off automatically. Actions: prime, (day)ignite
Shuffler: You may shuffle the setup, exchanging two random players' roles. You don't know whose roles were exchanged. Actions: shuffle
<Paranoid> Cop: You can inspect another player to learn their alignment. Your results are not guaranteed to be accurate. <A paranoid cop always gets mafia results.> Actions: inspect
Robot: Whenever you are targeted by an ability, you gain that ability. It still has its normal effect on you.
Kill-Immune Townie: You are immune to kills.
Mercurial Furry
Crazed Fiend: You can kill other players. Your ability can be used during night or day, but only once. Actions: (x)kill (1 use)
Beta Werewolf: As long as you are alive, the Alpha Werewolf cannot be killed at night. You will show up as 'town' to cops.
<Death Miller> Cop: You can inspect another player to learn their alignment. Your results are not guaranteed to be accurate. <You show up as a mafia version of your role on death.> Actions: inspect
Mason: No description.
Poison Doctor: You can give someone an antidote, curing that player of any poison. Actions: antidote
Unvote Superdorf. Seems like I just got things wrong. If neither scum nor town knew about Maximum Spin's amnesia, then it's entirelly possible scum just jumped on what they believed was an easy day 1 misslynch for town. At this point, it's just WIFOM.
Didn't I say why at least two times already? The reason I voted you was because I thought you might have been scum trying to defend their scumbuddy. But if Maximum Spin was an amnesiac, then that probably means the scum team wasn't aware he was part of their team, and voted with town thinking they were lynching someone who wasn't on their side.
Green Goo (town, survivor; common; 4+ players): Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo themselves.
Anyone who targeted me last night did. Which likely includes killers.Nice one.
Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso activates, does he gain access to the scumchat?Yes.
Shakerag: Does a player's alignment switch to town if he becomes Green Goo?Being affected by a Green Goo means your role name is changed and abilities are removed. That is all.
Deus Asmoth: How do you feel about Nirur Torir's admonishing us to "go after" you before his death?If you agree with Nirur then you should go after me. I still don't feel that I was misrepresenting what was going on, even if it turned out that he wasn't on the scumteam.
For the record, I was in a Mason chat with Kingasume, as seen by his flip. He had 0 posts in it, like the main game.Is this what you knew about Persus?
Didn't I say why at least two times already? The reason I voted you was because I thought you might have been scum trying to defend their scumbuddy. But if Maximum Spin was an amnesiac, then that probably means the scum team wasn't aware he was part of their team, and voted with town thinking they were lynching someone who wasn't on their side.
Wait wait wait, I don't like that assumption.
Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso activates, does he gain access to the scumchat?
Well, if I were Scum, then I would feel the need to take some aspect of my role. I might have left off the important "Night Watchman" yesterday, or...
Ok, real quick, I didn't use my *Unknown* on Tric, which is presumably what Green Goo'd us. Action Controller Confirmed. That, or someone outside is throwing Goo.
But then I used Night Watchman and got TricMagic, Myself.
Did they target me..?
ANYWAYS.
...or said that I can do something like Night Cop or something. If that came false, claim "must be a Paranoid Cop, darn" and move on.
A quick roleclaim shows confidence that saying what you are isn't about to get you lynched. I feel like it's better than simply going "am town" in the grand scheme of things. It also means folks who want to keep secret can kinda crew up for synergistic effects. Say I was a bodyguard. Doctor says "cover me," and we do a protect/heal loop, a classic invincibility play in ToS. On the same coin, a scum might lie about it and reap free protection... but with this much rolepower flying, they'd probably wind up investigated or copped, then lynched.
Claiming also makes for a Target Effect. Scum cries "KILL HIM HE'S TOO STRONG" and someone was watching me, sees the killer, LYNCH.
It's fun stuff.
Nononono
It TOTALLY overwrote my role. I probably had some kinda Mafia role in my original set. Now I have only one Town/Survivor role, Green Goo.
I think I know where you're going with this. Why do you think Maximum Spin's amnesia was cured at the start of the game? It's a 1 in 3 chance, even if it includes D1.
We have Word of Mod that an inactive amnesiac mafioso investigates as town, and flips as town on death. We also have Word of Mod that an amnesiac can activate at the start of D1, even if it's only a 1/3 chance. Max investigated mafia and flipped mafia; therefore his amnesia was indeed cured at the start of the game.Assuming of course, that he didn't start the game as Mafia to begin with.
Shakerag: Would a town player with Amnesiac Mafioso switch alignments once they recovered their memory?Yes.Shakerag: How inactive does somebody have to be to merit a replacement?You know, I don't really have a rule for that either ... let's go with 48 hours and you get modkilled. Ain't nobody got time to wait around for replacements.
Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?If the player's starting role is anything but Mafia then no, not until the amnesia is cured.
Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso hadn't remembered who they were yet, would they inspect as mafia or town? Also, did the trigger to remember happen at the start of D1?Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.
Assuming everything was successful, and there were no other abilities to interfere with the inspection, and said person hadn't changed alignments since the game started, they would inspect as whatever alignment they started the game as.
Deus, interesting theory- what kind of role would allow me to know that?I have no idea. I'm just hoping for the long awaited reveal that was promised to us.
Dues Asmoth, why do you misrepresent what went on? Do you have something that contradicts us?As near as I can tell I haven't contradicted you about anything. I have pointed out that from what I can see Kit's idea that someone else used an action to turn you into goo since no role lists that as an ability. I did miss that you'd indirectly claimed being the original green goo.
I think you misunderstood what Shakerag said. I believe Macimum Spin started as scum, but was locked out of the mafiachat because of the amnesia, and thus his scum team didn't know he was scum and got him lynched.What reason do you have to think that?
To answer you, Mimicry. I mimic you, reversing targets. So you ended up targeting yourself. Likewise, any who targetted me last night got gooed, like any killer/protective rolls.
At least I hope I was targeted by killers.
Shakerag, If the below ability was used on me while mimicry was active on a Green Goo, would they still receive a report on who visited?Not 100% on your scenario setup, but in general a patrol action would resolve before any goo triggers. Does that clarify things?
Night Watchman (town; uncommon; 4+ players): You can patrol near a player to learn who targets that player with a night action. Actions: patrol
Well, if I were Scum, then I would feel the need to take some aspect of my role. I might have left off the important "Night Watchman" yesterday, or...
Ok, real quick, I didn't use my *Unknown* on Tric, which is presumably what Green Goo'd us. Action Controller Confirmed. That, or someone outside is throwing Goo.
But then I used Night Watchman and got TricMagic, Myself.
Did they target me..?
ANYWAYS.
...or said that I can do something like Night Cop or something. If that came false, claim "must be a Paranoid Cop, darn" and move on.
Actually, it is... from the PM, it says, well, exact quotes are killable, aren't they? But anyways...
You are now
green goo
Town
Win-con: Kill All Anti-Town
You have no abilities
I'm guessing the specification of alignment means that being Green Goo comes with being Town as a bonus.
Ok, real quick, I didn't use my *Unknown* on Tric, which is presumably what Green Goo'd us. Action Controller Confirmed. That, or someone outside is throwing Goo.
But then I used Night Watchman and got TricMagic, Myself.
Did they target me..?
BTW I was the one who shot Maximum Spin. I didn't want to catch a mafia bullet when the mafia still had a chance of killing 3rd parties for us, but since we killed two scum at the end of the day and things are looking good, it seems fine to claim now.
To answer you, Mimicry. I mimic you, reversing targets. So you ended up targeting yourself. Likewise, any who targetted me last night got gooed, like any killer/protective rolls.
At least I hope I was targeted by killers.
Did you even bother to read before posting? I'm the Mimic, Kit is the Goo/Night Watchmen...
Something sounds off with that..
RGU: I don't get why you keep bringing up the idea that there's a possibility that scum didn't know that Spin was on their team. Regardless of his starting position they would have known that he was on their team.
ShakeragNo.I am down to here in the list... Shakerag, would Nosy Neighbor tell the user they were mafia even if they didn't remember it? Unlikely, but it is the first so far that would mean something at all. Millers don't count to nosy neighbors, as we aren't cops.Is it possible for a player to start a game not knowing their alignment?
Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?If the player's starting role is anything but Mafia then no, not until the amnesia is cured.
Eh, I s'pose.Yes.
Shakiest of Rags, if player A used Night Watchman on player B, would player A appear in the list of results they receive on players that targeted player B with a night action?
Ok, Tric, who the rainbow f*** are you talking to? You just quoted yourself like 3 times then acted like one of those quotes was Hector
What
Trashy phrasing and nothing more! I was using THOSE words at the time because I was trying to pull any other Green Goos out of their shells. The conversation was me explaining how even though I was ALREADY town, it was respecified that I was Town.
If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso, then wouldn't that mean that he didn't have access to the scum chat? While he was aware he was part of the scum, it doesn't mean the scum was aware he was also on their scum team.If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso and not a part of the scum team then that would mean that he did not have access to the scum chat. It would also mean that he would flip and inspect as town. Maximum Spin did not flip or inspect as town, he flipped as scum and inspected as scum. That means that he was on the scum team, which means that he did have access to the scum chat, which means the scum team should have been perfectly aware that he was on their team.
I think you misunderstood what Shakerag said. I believe Macimum Spin started as scum, but was locked out of the mafiachat because of the amnesia, and thus his scum team didn't know he was scum and got him lynched.And that's wrong. If Max was still an amnesiac, he wouldn't have flipped as scum, and if he was a mafioso, he would have had access to the scum chat.
Why do you care about this so much? Also, Max didn't even get lynched.Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso activates, does he gain access to the scumchat?Yes.
Dues Asmoth, why do you misrepresent what went on? Do you have something that contradicts us?
I also threw out the possibility about there being another party involved, for the record.To answer you, Mimicry. I mimic you, reversing targets. So you ended up targeting yourself. Likewise, any who targetted me last night got gooed, like any killer/protective rolls.
At least I hope I was targeted by killers.
Did you even bother to read before posting? I'm the Mimic, Kit is the Goo/Night Watchmen...
Something sounds off with that..
If Kit was town now, they should say it, because that's important information. However, I doubt Kit is incompetent enough to fail to notice that his alignment hadn't changed before claiming it. Although, that line of argument failed Leafsnail last game. At any rate that line was stated when Kit seemed to think we could win by turning everyone into Goo.I'm guessing the specification of alignment means that being Green Goo comes with being Town as a bonus.That bolded part does rather imply that you weren't town prior to being goo.
NQTJoke version: I said NQT was the mechanics guy, not that he was good at it.BTW I was the one who shot Maximum Spin. I didn't want to catch a mafia bullet when the mafia still had a chance of killing 3rd parties for us, but since we killed two scum at the end of the day and things are looking good, it seems fine to claim now.
Persus thinks you're the mechanics guy, and you know your way around the game of mafia, so when you miss something as glaring as a death miller, as well as the little bits that Kit just dropped, it does tend to make me a little more suspicious. Burden of proficiency and all that.
You harped on all day yesterday about having something to reveal about Persus this day, perhaps you'd like to enlighten us?
Persus
You said NQT was the mechanics guy, what are your thoughts on the above?
Ok, Tric, who the rainbow f*** are you talking to? You just quoted yourself like 3 times then acted like one of those quotes was HectorIf you used quotes I might have a better idea of what you're talking about.
What
I use Mimicry on Kit, therefore ensuring whoever target us targeted the other instead. This turned me to Green Goo. Kit then says he used Night Watchman on me, which redirected to himself. His report was that I visited him, which I did.Why are you assuming others targeted you?
But what of the others who would have targeted me? Where are they in this report, they would have been redirected to Kit, and shown up, wouldn't they?
Hector13If Kit was town now, they should say it, because that's important information. However, I doubt Kit is incompetent enough to fail to notice that his alignment hadn't changed before claiming it. Although, that line of argument failed Leafsnail last game. At any rate that line was stated when Kit seemed to think we could win by turning everyone into Goo.I'm guessing the specification of alignment means that being Green Goo comes with being Town as a bonus.That bolded part does rather imply that you weren't town prior to being goo.
I use Mimicry on Kit, therefore ensuring whoever target us targeted the other instead. This turned me to Green Goo. Kit then says he used Night Watchman on me, which redirected to himself. His report was that I visited him, which I did.
But what of the others who would have targeted me? Where are they in this report, they would have been redirected to Kit, and shown up, wouldn't they?
To answer you, Mimicry. I mimic you, reversing targets. So you ended up targeting yourself. Likewise, any who targetted me last night got gooed, like any killer/protective rolls.
At least I hope I was targeted by killers.
Did you even bother to read before posting? I'm the Mimic, Kit is the Goo/Night Watchmen...
Something sounds off with that..
Still Hector? Tell me what Mimicry does.
Also, for confirmation purposes:Yes.
Shakerag: Would a death miller ability work even if the player in question was modkilled?
No it wasn't.Yeah, but clearly that's where his line of thinking was headed. If anything your arguments are making it clear how bizarre it would be for Kit to be scum right now.
The part I highlighted was made about an hour (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173971.msg7973954#msg7973954) before he appeared to consider making everyone town via green goo.
Even then, why is he thinking green goo changes alignment if his alignment didn't change?
And I was doing my "RISE ABOVE THE TIDES, FELLOW GOOS" bit because I thought it was a band of obvious Town, a clump of viable trust in a sea of wine and confusion and murder.
Ninja Edit: Because Night PM specified that my alignment was town, even though I was already town. Why not just say my alignment was the same, then?
Kit, Did you have the Green Goo ability when the night started and then lost all your other abilities at the end of the night, or did you gain the goo ability at the end of the night?Why was it any harder for you to find this than it was for me?
Secret Green Goo is a possible role in the set up, which is why I was asking (not Hector). So its entirely possible you had Green Goo hidden in your role before.
And I was doing my "RISE ABOVE THE TIDES, FELLOW GOOS" bit because I thought it was a band of obvious Town, a clump of viable trust in a sea of wine and confusion and murder.
Yeahh, that doesn't work. Even if green goo *did* change alignment-- which it doesn't-- scum could just lie about their gooiness if they wanted to. We'd still be in the dark, and scum would have valuable role information.
Guys, I told you about assumptions already.Yes.
Shakerag: If a person with green goo, secret or otherwise, is in some manner redirected to targeting themselves, would they turn to green goo?
Yes, because clearly that was going so well before.Secret Green Goo is a possible role in the set up, which is why I was asking (not Hector). So its entirely possible you had Green Goo hidden in your role before.
I mean, we could just hand everything to him or we could ask him questions and figure it out, but whatever.
Thoughts on the game so far? You were thinking Kit and I were scum at the end of the day yesterday.
It was until you handed him the answers to the questions I was going to ask him, making it harder for at least me to figure out if he was telling the truth or not.Yes, because clearly that was going so well before.Secret Green Goo is a possible role in the set up, which is why I was asking (not Hector). So its entirely possible you had Green Goo hidden in your role before.
I mean, we could just hand everything to him or we could ask him questions and figure it out, but whatever.
Thoughts on the game so far? You were thinking Kit and I were scum at the end of the day yesterday.
I'm rather happier with KitRougard now. He's active, and though he's a bit muddle-headed now and again heaven knows I am too.
As for you... well, Nirur flipped SK not mafia, so I need to read your stuff again to get a proper read on you. Among other things, I need to go try and make some sense of that spat between you and Tric.
It was also a line of questioning I was following. Which that was the conclusion. Its entirely possible both of them got hit with role changing abilities like a Mad Scientist or something though.It was until you handed him the answers to the questions I was going to ask him, making it harder for at least me to figure out if he was telling the truth or not.Yes, because clearly that was going so well before.Secret Green Goo is a possible role in the set up, which is why I was asking (not Hector). So its entirely possible you had Green Goo hidden in your role before.
I mean, we could just hand everything to him or we could ask him questions and figure it out, but whatever.
I guess it doesn't matter, what you were saying about him being incompetent enough to announce an alignment change in thread makes sense.
I do think there was probably scum on that Nirur wagon, though.Agreed here. There were two many votes for there not to be at least one.
Tric: Was becoming Green Goo your only role change? Obviously, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to reveal more role info.It was also a line of questioning I was following. Which that was the conclusion. Its entirely possible both of them got hit with role changing abilities like a Mad Scientist or something though.It was until you handed him the answers to the questions I was going to ask him, making it harder for at least me to figure out if he was telling the truth or not.Yes, because clearly that was going so well before.Secret Green Goo is a possible role in the set up, which is why I was asking (not Hector). So its entirely possible you had Green Goo hidden in your role before.
I mean, we could just hand everything to him or we could ask him questions and figure it out, but whatever.
I guess it doesn't matter, what you were saying about him being incompetent enough to announce an alignment change in thread makes sense.
RGU:If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso, then wouldn't that mean that he didn't have access to the scum chat? While he was aware he was part of the scum, it doesn't mean the scum was aware he was also on their scum team.If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso and not a part of the scum team then that would mean that he did not have access to the scum chat. It would also mean that he would flip and inspect as town. Maximum Spin did not flip or inspect as town, he flipped as scum and inspected as scum. That means that he was on the scum team, which means that he did have access to the scum chat, which means the scum team should have been perfectly aware that he was on their team.
To be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.
Kit: Can you answer the question that I asked you?
RGU:I think you misunderstood what Shakerag said. I believe Macimum Spin started as scum, but was locked out of the mafiachat because of the amnesia, and thus his scum team didn't know he was scum and got him lynched.And that's wrong. If Max was still an amnesiac, he wouldn't have flipped as scum, and if he was a mafioso, he would have had access to the scum chat.Why do you care about this so much? Also, Max didn't even get lynched.Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso activates, does he gain access to the scumchat?Yes.
Shakerag: Can a player who began the game with the mafia alignment be absent from the scum chat?-A player who begins the game with a Mafia alignment will be in a scum chat.
Does a player who started with an amnesiac Mafioso role know that they are mafia?
If there is a player with an amnesiac Mafioso role, does the scum know they are?
Was Macimum Spin cured of ammnesia at the start of Day 1?
Would an amnesiac Mafioso flip as town or scum?
Queued day actions have been processed.
Day will end Thursday May 23rd, 1:30 PM Central Time. Weekends don't count.
Vote Count
------------------------
(0)Superdorf -
(1)TricMagic - Superdorf
(1)IcyTea31 - hector13
(0)Nirur Torir -
(0)Persus13 -
(1)hector13 - TricMagic
(3)Maximum Spin - notquitethere, Deus Asmoth, Nirur Torir
(0)KitRougard -
(0)kingawsume -
(0)randomgenericusername -
(0)Deus Asmoth -
(1)notquitethere - Maximum Spin
(0)No Lynch -
Not Voting - IcyTea31, Persus13, KitRougard, kingawsume, randomgenericusername
Please let me know if the votecount seems inaccurate.
Aha!Yes. (Took you guys long enough to figure that out)
Shakerag: Is it possible for someone to be an Amnesiac Mafia Role and still be Mafia at the start of the game?
I am just going to ask why NQT isn't participating in this at the moment.Shakerag literally just stated Max's amnesia hadn't been cured. Also, why do you think NQT isn't participating right now.
Nin.
Superdorf, he had his vote on IcyTea early on. And yes, Max was cured of amnesia, otherwise, my nosiness wouldn't have pegged him as mafia.
Well its also infuriating for me because you've continued to do nothing except argue some of your own assumptions, which are incorrect based on a bunch of information that is readily available in this thread. Half your mod questions were asked already, and this whole line of questioning has no point and is just filler that detracts from actual scumhunting, which I have yet to see you do any.RGU:If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso, then wouldn't that mean that he didn't have access to the scum chat? While he was aware he was part of the scum, it doesn't mean the scum was aware he was also on their scum team.If Maximum Spin was an amnesiac Mafioso and not a part of the scum team then that would mean that he did not have access to the scum chat. It would also mean that he would flip and inspect as town. Maximum Spin did not flip or inspect as town, he flipped as scum and inspected as scum. That means that he was on the scum team, which means that he did have access to the scum chat, which means the scum team should have been perfectly aware that he was on their team.
To be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.
Kit: Can you answer the question that I asked you?RGU:I think you misunderstood what Shakerag said. I believe Macimum Spin started as scum, but was locked out of the mafiachat because of the amnesia, and thus his scum team didn't know he was scum and got him lynched.And that's wrong. If Max was still an amnesiac, he wouldn't have flipped as scum, and if he was a mafioso, he would have had access to the scum chat.Why do you care about this so much? Also, Max didn't even get lynched.Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso activates, does he gain access to the scumchat?Yes.
This is actually extremely infuriating to answer to, because you're both using assumptions I made based on what the mod said against me, even quoting the very same things I did, and I just can't see how could that make me scum or town if I wasn't even present when the lynch happened. Literally the only reason I'm arguing this is because Superdorf keeps pressuring me into explaining why I unvoted him, which is ridiculous by itself because if he's right about Maximum Spin then he's also even more scummy than before and I'll have to vote him again. Nothing of this makes sense to me and at this point we all should be asking the mod instead.
Shakerag: Can a player who began the game with the mafia alignment be absent from the scum chat? Does a player who started with an amnesiac Mafioso role know that they are mafia? If there is a player with an amnesiac Mafioso role, does the scum know they are? Was Macimum Spin cured of ammnesia at the start of Day 1? Would an amnesiac Mafioso flip as town or scum?
I've been low-key arguing that this was the most likely scenario since it happened, for the record.Aha!Yes. (Took you guys long enough to figure that out)
Shakerag: Is it possible for someone to be an Amnesiac Mafia Role and still be Mafia at the start of the game?
Proof for Mystery Green Goo: Mystery Mad Monk was a flip, and I dont remember a Mystery Mad Monk in The Big ListOkay. NQT, please daykill Kit (but not really, cause then we lose our daykill). Not only is there a Mystery Mad Monk on the big list, which you could easily find out if you use this nice web browser function called Control F (or Command F). But Mystery Green Goo IS NOT A POSSIBLE ROLE in the set up.
Eh, to be fair, NQT seems most likely scum just now.So explain why he would daykill a Mafia member or fakeclaim doing so?
Mystery Green Goo IS NOT A POSSIBLE ROLE in the set up.
"Secret Green Goo (town; super-rare; 4+ players): You don't know what your role does. Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo themselves.
That does not change what I said in any way.Mystery Green Goo IS NOT A POSSIBLE ROLE in the set up.
Wait what? Sure it is.Quote from: Xylbot role list"Secret Green Goo (town; super-rare; 4+ players): You don't know what your role does. Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo themselves.
...Okay? Explain to me why it's impossible for that role to appear in this game.Secret Grey Goo can certainly appear in the game. I never said it couldn't. But Mystery Grey Goo is not a thing. This is an important distinction mainly because Secret abilities are passives, while Mystery abilities are actions. The main purpose there was to put pressure on Kit for that, and it probably would have gone the same way without you butting in before he had a chance to respond, but now I can't be certain of that.
Wait... I was Secret <Something> not Mystery <Something>...All good.
Yeah, I was Green Goo.
DAGNABBOT TRIC YA SEE WHAT YOU DID
ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS MAKE SURE NOONE KILLED YOU
Also, yes, I went back into the Big List and cringed at my mistake. Stop threatening to kill me based on my own incompetency. Just call me a general nincompoop.
How was that protecting me though, it's not a protective roll.It still was a good move, because it has the potential to get more info, especially if you got shot.
...Okay? Explain to me why it's impossible for that role to appear in this game.Secret Grey Goo can certainly appear in the game. I never said it couldn't. But Mystery Grey Goo is not a thing. This is an important distinction mainly because Secret abilities are passives, while Mystery abilities are actions. The main purpose there was to put pressure on Kit for that, and it probably would have gone the same way without you butting in before he had a chance to respond, but now I can't be certain of that.
Also these distinctions are important for the inevitable massclaim, because its a way to catch fakeclaims.
The main purpose there was to put pressure on Kit for that, and it probably would have gone the same way without you butting in before he had a chance to respond, but now I can't be certain of that.
I'm not pissed off actually. Just thought I'd use the occasion to IC for a second....Okay? Explain to me why it's impossible for that role to appear in this game.Secret Grey Goo can certainly appear in the game. I never said it couldn't. But Mystery Grey Goo is not a thing. This is an important distinction mainly because Secret abilities are passives, while Mystery abilities are actions. The main purpose there was to put pressure on Kit for that, and it probably would have gone the same way without you butting in before he had a chance to respond, but now I can't be certain of that.
Also these distinctions are important for the inevitable massclaim, because its a way to catch fakeclaims.
Excuse you, ya cheeky bastard, for getting pissed off at someone doing the same thing to you that you did to me :p
Well its also infuriating for me because you've continued to do nothing except argue some of your own assumptions, which are incorrect based on a bunch of information that is readily available in this thread. Half your mod questions were asked already, and this whole line of questioning has no point and is just filler that detracts from actual scumhunting, which I have yet to see you do any.
I'll read over the cases again, but unless something really jumps out at me I'm keeping my vote right where it is, thank you. Kit's kinda flighty sometimes, but normally he's at least willing to poke at the mechanics a little... this? This thing he's doing? This is just ridiculous.
I'd be willing to maybe overlook the lurking if it was honest lurking. But Kit's posted here. He's present, to at least some extent. He's demonstrated that whatever he's doing, it's probably deliberate. I don't like that.
KitRougard: I need to go to sleep soon, and I'm probably going to miss the lynch, so... if you want to change my mind about this, you're gonna have to do it in, oh, the next hour or so. Failing that, you've got a few hours more to change somebody else's mind. Poke somebody. Comment on a roleflip. Show to us that you care, at least a little, about who wins this game.
Hector13: You're voting Nirur Torir for jumping on the Kit-wagon with lazy reasons. What does that make me, then, and what does that make KitRougard? Am I wrong to vote where I'm voting?
And now to cast my vote.
Unfortunately, I just don't have much to go on-- I still don't trust my reads, and I'm far too sleepy to refine the reads I have any further. I've gotta vote somebody tho, and so I'm gonna cast my vote on Nirur Torir. He's just erratic enough to merit suspicion, he's active enough to lend us some information if he flips town, and if he does flip town... well, I know who I'll be chasing next.
Goodnightmorning all.
randomgenericusername: I'll admit poking you for not poking me was maybe kinda stupid on my part. On the other hand, it's certainly got your hackles up. :D
Why is it important that you weren't present for the lynch?
hector13: You were quite upset over Tric's constantly misunderstanding you D1, but didn't put your vote behind your words against him. Do you believe Tric to be scum, or do you just find him that unpleasant to interact with?
PPE: Wait wait wait, Max wasn't cured of amnesia at game's start? I'm... so confused...
Ooh ooh, somebody to logic-spar with! Readlist later. Wordpokings now.I've been the one thinking this whole thing was pointless but people continued to insist on it, like if it was important, and prevented me from doing any scumhunting since I've had to answer all of the time.(1) We're insisting on it (at least, I'm insisting on it) because you react so beautifully to getting poked about it. The quibble is minor. Your reaction is very much not.I'm going to end this nosense right here and get back to what's really important then.(2) What's this "really important" thing you want to get back to?Superdorf, the points I made in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173971.msg7973102#msg7973102) still stand, and now I'm convinced that the reason you've been so persistent on making me explain why did I unvote you was because you knew these assumptions were wrong. Maybe it was confusion, because you knew you were scum.(3) Your assumptions were wrong. I gave you different assumptions, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173971.msg7973135#msg7973135) remember? Namely, I'm incompetent and tired and everyone and everything makes me suspicious, including my own suspicions. I've been WIFOMing myself, and it's absolutely paralyzing everything I say and do. I was a discombobulated mess all of D1, and I'm only now starting to come out of it.Firsst of all, you made an attack against Macimum Spin (who was scum) in the same post you voted TricMagic (who was probably town and invesstigator). Right after, you vote for KitRougard. I think there's a pattern here, but maybe it's just me.(4) That wasn't an attack. That was me trying to understand what he was saying. As I said before, in that post I linked you: Max confused me, because he expressed himself in a rather odd fashion. Tric worried me, because TricMagic is naturally suspicious like that. So I asked Max for clarification, and I voted Tric. That turned out to be a bad mistake on my part. When I say I don't trust my own reads? This is why.((Also, this might be crazy, but I have a gut feeling of a second scum team composed by DA, Persus and Superdorf. They have been defending and supporting each other, though maybe it's just them reading each other as town.))(5) Wait, they've been defending me? Cool. I'm gonna have to go re-read some stuff to check that one.And again, your vote doesn't match your words. A post ago, you read hector13 (Who was voting Nirur Torir) as scum. Then you say Nirur Torir as been active, you expect him to flip town and vote him anyways. It doesn't make much sense to me, even if Nirur Torir turned out to be a serial killer.(6) I read both Nirur Torir and Hector as scum. They both looked strange to me. Maybe one was scum? Maybe the other? Maybe both? I didn't know. But I'd been second-guessing myself that whole Day, I didn't know what to do or what to say anymore, and I had to vote somebody... so I figured I'd try one and chase the other the next day if it turned out I'd guessed wrong. In the end, I lucked out.Even so, scum needs to get rid of the serial killers to win.(7) Now I'm curious-- how d'you feel about some of the other people who voted Nirur Torir that day? Anyone there jump out at you in particular?Then you asked me twice to explain why I unvoted you, which I did.(8 ) And you became so beautifully irritated in the process.What I meant to say was that I wasn't present for the kill, when Maximum Spin was getting voted on then daykilled. Seems like sleep deprivation has made me to keep mixing words and people is now using that against me now.(9) Ah. Wonderful. Thank you. Why is that important?
(10) Anyway. You're reacting with an awful lot of emotion in response to a very little questioning. Why do you dislike our pressure so?
Also, would you mind throwing us a readlist?
I was tired, and I was trying to push both of them with one vote. Of the two, Tric made me slightly more suspicious-- at this point, I hadn't studied the thing deeply enough to have much more than emotional reads, and Tric always looks weird to me-- so I threw my vote that way. At the same time, there were points in Max's defense that I wanted to clarify with him.
On top of all that, I expected to have another day to move that vote if I needed to, depending on how Max reacted to my pokings. Then I was asleep, and then Max died, leaving me with this weird quasi-D2 mess to sort out!
It was late, I was sleepy, I tried to do something weird, I messed up. Now I'm trying to reorient myself.
(6)Nirur Torir - Deus Asmoth, hector13, randomgenericusername, Superdorf, Persus13, KitRougard
To be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.
And that's wrong. If Max was still an amnesiac, he wouldn't have flipped as scum, and if he was a mafioso, he would have had access to the scum chat.Both of these were from posts of those who voted against me, and I was explaining that I don't see how that makes me scum as by the time I read the thread, Maximum Spin was already dead. So even if I had been scum, literally nothing would have changed or happened.
(1) I've stayed calm the whole time and I just don't get it why people think I "react". It's just like in Mafiakart when everyone just seems to misinterpret the tone or feeling behind my posts. I was irritated because I didn't see the point of it and the whole thing was just wasting time from what was important.
(2) Hunting scum, I thought it was obvious. I guess I'm just really that disconnected from people if I think so differently from the rest.
(3)Quote from: The linked postI was tired, and I was trying to push both of them with one vote. Of the two, Tric made me slightly more suspicious-- at this point, I hadn't studied the thing deeply enough to have much more than emotional reads, and Tric always looks weird to me-- so I threw my vote that way. At the same time, there were points in Max's defense that I wanted to clarify with him.
On top of all that, I expected to have another day to move that vote if I needed to, depending on how Max reacted to my pokings. Then I was asleep, and then Max died, leaving me with this weird quasi-D2 mess to sort out!
It was late, I was sleepy, I tried to do something weird, I messed up. Now I'm trying to reorient myself.
So basically, you're saying you made a mistake by accident due to being sleepy. You could have lied and this was just a justification as of why you voted for the investigator, but I guess I could trust you this time and assume this is just you making a newbie mistake.
(4) Still, you seemed to push Maximum Spin more than you did TricMagic, and I think it should have been the other way around. Another mistake?
(5) More than you all seem to read each other as town and go after the same things. Maybe buddying? Could even be a cult. It's just a crazy theory, I just left it there in case it turns out to be true later on, like when the game ends. Most probably they're both just town.
(6) Alright, I get that you were confused and such, but this is the third time so far. You can't just justify everything with being confused and unsure forever.
(7) It all depends of the reasonings behind the votes since both scum and town would want to get a serial killer lynched. I'll also analyze thoe who voted for KitRougard, but that will have to be in another post. Nirur Torir seemed to be certain Deus Asmoth was scum for some reason.Quote(6)Nirur Torir - Deus Asmoth, hector13, randomgenericusername, Superdorf, Persus13, KitRougard
(8 ) Read 1. At this point I feel you're probably trying to taunt or mock me, but I think you should instead try to apply actual pressure with a case.
(9) Because some people apparently were trying to use that against me, if you hadn't noticed.QuoteTo be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.QuoteAnd that's wrong. If Max was still an amnesiac, he wouldn't have flipped as scum, and if he was a mafioso, he would have had access to the scum chat.Both of these were from posts of those who voted against me, and I was explaining that I don't see how that makes me scum as by the time I read the thread, Maximum Spin was already dead. So even if I had been scum, literally nothing would have changed or happened.
(10)(( What emotion? I'm legitimately confused as of why everyone always thinks I'm angry or whatever. I don't dislike the pressure, I actually enjoy it because it gives me an incentive to post more and be less passive, so I can avoid what I do most of the time during the early game. Do I really appear to be that agressive?)) About a read list, that will also come next post after I analyze the votes from yesterday.
This is actually extremely infuriatingThen you dredged up some stuff from D1, you voted me again, and now we're in a proper spat. This is a reaction. A big one. I'm excited to see where it goes.
Deus Asmoth is scum. After my flip, be sure to go after him. And everyone who's throwing votes into my pile while misrepresenting my questioning.Do you think NT's accusation of Deus Asmoth was just desperate nonsense or was there a point embedded there?
Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place? Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?
TricMagic: Max claims never to have received this alignment confirmation of yours. Do you think he's lying?
To be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.Why would scum want to highlight and discuss and draw attention to the exact composition of their team and knowledge? That doesn't seem like a "most likely reason" to me.
Still waiting on a Superdorf to tell me why I’m scum though.
Reconsidering NQT’s daykill claim as clearing, because it is unconfirmed, and they were very cagey yesterday (lots of “yeah I have information for town, better keep me alive so I can tell you about it” without much else) and did actually say they thought IcyTea killed MaxSpin prior to claiming that it was in fact himself. Doesn’t make much sense to wait to claim if it’s a one-shot. Would probably make more sense to claim the kill on D1 and not say it was one-shot to draw fire from Tric.Iirc NQT claimed that Spin was probably behind Icytea's death, but not the other way around. If you end up deciding to pursue this further, I'd like an explanation for why NQT wasn't counter-claimed, or how killing Spin would advance his wincon as scum.
Right. Given the lack of talk. Dues Asmoth, not participating, then saying you won't be able to participate till the next day.Why are you voting someone for being upfront for being unable to post?
Still waiting on a Superdorf to tell me why I’m scum though.
Yeahh, sorry to keep you waiting there. I've been bouncin' around all day, haven't had time for a proper analysis. Gimme a bit, I'll try and start dredging stuff up...
NQT: What's all this about you being "buddies" with Persus13? What information were you trying to get out of him D1?
hector13: If NQT didn't perform that daykill D1, then who did? IcyTea?
That Bad-Ass Nurse in an Action Movie
Nurse: When the doctor dies, you become a Doctor.
<50%> One-Shot Vigilante: You can kill other players. Your ability can only be used once. <This role's actions only work 50% of the time.> Actions: kill (1 use)
<Paranoid> Inspector Gadget: You may inspect once per night, or do a random nonkill action. You may or may not be sane. <A paranoid cop always gets mafia results.> Actions: inspect special
Mystery <Mad Monk>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can kill another player each night. You are immune to all actions except kills.> Actions: mystery
Computer Hacker: You may hack another player's action, modifying it randomly. Actions: hack
IcyTea obviously daykilled by Max.
Hector13, your case is absurd and poorly researched. On D1 I speculated that Max (who had a daykill) performed the kill on Tea. I didn't say anything about who killed Max then. I've explained any caginess I might have had D1 if you read my last few post. To recap: I decided not to claim on D1 so that I wouldn't be a target n1. You might say that this is selfish, but give Tric's role powers are all gone it did in fact turn out to be the right move. This is a high-powered game and I wanted to use a trick up my sleeve.
Also I didn't claim D1 that I had really good info... just that it wouldn't have been town-sided to reveal (the Persus stuff etc) straight away.
Further, your rationale for players not counter-claiming me (if I had been lying) directly contradicts your attack for me not claiming. If it was unsafe to counterclaim a kill in your eyes, then why was it safe to claim a kill?
Who has the best motive for doubting a confirmed mafiakiller actually killed the mafia? The mafia.
Hector13: So if NQT didn't do the kill, then why hasn't the real daykiller claimed by now? And by that logic then nobody else could have done the kill since no one claimed it during Day 1. You say it's easily disproven and that multiple players could have targeted him, but so far no one has counterclaimed it. While you're right that not claiming the kill if it was a single use is suspicious, NQT did push towards a Maximum Spin lynch, so it makes sense that he would daykill him.
if I assume Kit tells the truth of his Watch result, Mafia didn't even target me last night. Had NQT actually claimed day 1 that they killed them and used that to move the game along in scumhunting, that would be a town move. It would also draw fire away from me as well.I think you're overthinking why no one targeted you. People may have been blocked, redirected, decided not to visit you because they felt it was an obvious move, etc. Also, thanks for reminding me that my vote is still on RGU. Also also, can you answer my previous question.
My main question is why no-one else targeted me. It doesn't make much sense.
Beyond that, why are we going to have Dues and Persus just lynch someone with only two votes? Is anyone on who can turn it to a 3 vote on NQT?
NQT: What's all this about you being "buddies" with Persus13? What information were you trying to get out of him D1?NQT hasn't answered this, but if you look at the Xylbot role list and use Control F with BUDDY1, you'll see a bunch of roles that do X with a buddy. For instance:
Bruce Wayne (town; super-rare; 5+ players): Right now, you don't have any powers, but if BUDDY1 dies you will become a Batman.But seriously, if you have mechanics questions, check the role list first, and it should give you the answers you want.
Your votes on D1 were, in order, a player with a guilty result, a player who voted the player who gave the guilty result, and a pressure vote on an inactive player, where your vote rested for the remainder of the day. How is an inactive player more likely to be scum than a player who was voting against a claimed guaranteed sane inspect?How is a player who most likely daykilled Mafia more likely to be scum than a player who voted against a claimed guaranteed scum inspect? And before you say how we know he daykilled Mafia, What would NQT have to gain from fakeclaiming something that's so easy to be counterclaimed? I've never seen Mafia claim something so obvious as a day kill before. At least with night kills there's more ambiguity because actions all resolve at the end of the night.
NQT.What part of Hector's argument do you find convincing?
Hector, it's confirmed I killed a mafia player: Max was mafia and he's definitely dead and no one has counterclaimed. It's not in dispute except by you.
Why is killing a confirmed scum a waste of a kill??? It allowed players to use the rest of the day for productive scum hunting. As it happened I didn't think NT was mafia (and they weren't) but fortunately they were a SK and the day led two anti-town players being killed. That's an objectively good outcome from my daykill. What would have been a waste is holding on to it and then dying in the night, or using it on someone I had an incorrect hunch about and ending up with a dead townie. It seems like you're annoyed that I played differently to how you would played it.
Persusyou serious bro? Tell me how my counterclaim proves NQT didn’t do it. If anyone else counterclaimed, would that prove NQT didn’t do it? What would it tell you if a counterclaim was made?You haven't counterclaimed shit. If anyone else counterclaimed, it would be a serious accusation that would have to be evaluated by looking at when both parties were active D1, their opinions on the whole Tric/Spin thing, and a general sense of scumminess. If I daykilled a mafia player and someone else claimed that in thread, you'd bet I'd be counterclaiming. The lack of one and the lack of daykills on the dead players strongly indicates to me that NQT is telling the truth. A daykill is something I wouldn't fake claim as scum unless I was 100% sure the real daykiller couldn't contradict me, or if I had to take some flack for a teammate.
Ignore the claiming business for a moment; has NQT done anything to show he’s town to you?I find NQT hard to read in general, but I haven't seen anything from him to indicate he's scum. He's missed a few things, but that's hardly scum indicative, and he generally takes more interest in the mechanical aspects of the game to do scumhunting than not.
What whole business with Kit?You claimed Kit had made a scumslip at the begining of D2. When you realized it wasn't getting any traction you dropped it.
I have never once said killing MaxSpin was a bad idea. I said I believe NQT is fakeclaiming, because it’s super easy towncred, as evidenced by nobody giving a second thought about it until now. As evidenced by you not thinking he could be fakeclaiming, and that he isn’t scum as a result.You'd be able to start momentum for a lynch against a target that wasn't your scumbuddy, get rid of a claimed daykiller, and leave people who keep being suspicious for later.
Consider that from the other side: what would I gain as scum from throwing any sort of shade on an apparently confirmed mafiakiller?
Have you ever seen a mafia bus another member of the mafia? How is claiming a daykill performed on mafia any different?I've seen Mafia bus each other, and participated in it. Fakeclaiming is different because it doesn't involve claiming something that's extremely easy to disprove.
Are you worried about what sort of BUDDY NQT is with you?Well if he was an Azwolg I'd have learned about it by now.
Persusyou serious bro? Tell me how my counterclaim proves NQT didn’t do it. If anyone else counterclaimed, would that prove NQT didn’t do it? What would it tell you if a counterclaim was made?You haven't counterclaimed shit. If anyone else counterclaimed, it would be a serious accusation that would have to be evaluated by looking at when both parties were active D1, their opinions on the whole Tric/Spin thing, and a general sense of scumminess. If I daykilled a mafia player and someone else claimed that in thread, you'd bet I'd be counterclaiming. The lack of one and the lack of daykills on the dead players strongly indicates to me that NQT is telling the truth. A daykill is something I wouldn't fake claim as scum unless I was 100% sure the real daykiller couldn't contradict me, or if I had to take some flack for a teammate.
Ignore the claiming business for a moment; has NQT done anything to show he’s town to you?I find NQT hard to read in general, but I haven't seen anything from him to indicate he's scum. He's missed a few things, but that's hardly scum indicative, and he generally takes more interest in the mechanical aspects of the game to do scumhunting than not.
What whole business with Kit?You claimed Kit had made a scumslip at the begining of D2. When you realized it wasn't getting any traction you dropped it.
I have never once said killing MaxSpin was a bad idea. I said I believe NQT is fakeclaiming, because it’s super easy towncred, as evidenced by nobody giving a second thought about it until now. As evidenced by you not thinking he could be fakeclaiming, and that he isn’t scum as a result.You'd be able to start momentum for a lynch against a target that wasn't your scumbuddy, get rid of a claimed daykiller, and leave people who keep being suspicious for later.
Consider that from the other side: what would I gain as scum from throwing any sort of shade on an apparently confirmed mafiakiller?
Have you ever seen a mafia bus another member of the mafia? How is claiming a daykill performed on mafia any different?I've seen Mafia bus each other, and participated in it. Fakeclaiming is different because it doesn't involve claiming something that's extremely easy to disprove
NQT claimed a useless daykill.I'm really struggling to see how someone could write this from a town perspective. What's useless about killing outed scum and opening up the players to lynch more scum? I bought the whole town a whole day of play!
A different tack then: I killed MaxSpin. By your logic, I am now confirmed town.?? But you didn't though. I just can't see the town motivation in choosing to attack me for claiming to have killed scum, when A. that has objectively helped the town B. there are no serious counterclaimants and C. there are a load of other players who all you know about them is that they haven't killed scum.
I'm sorry Persus, I really don't mean to be cyberbullying you. This is just weird stuff re: my role pm. It's not in town's interest's for me to say why today, but I'll explain it all D2.
HectorNQT claimed a useless daykill.I'm really struggling to see how someone could write this from a town perspective. What's useless about killing outed scum and opening up the players to lynch more scum? I bought the whole town a whole day of play!
A different tack then: I killed MaxSpin. By your logic, I am now confirmed town.?? But you didn't though. I just can't see the town motivation in choosing to attack me for claiming to have killed scum, when A. that has objectively helped the town B. there are no serious counterclaimants and C. there are a load of other players who all you know about them is that they haven't killed scum.
Deus Asmoth: Nirur Torir accused a bunch of us of "throwing votes onto the pile while misrepresenting his questioning". Would you say any of us were misrepresenting NT back there? If so, who, and how?My interpretation was that he only felt that I was misrepresenting him, but here's a vote-by-vote breakdown:
Deus AsmothWhen I first read it, my thought was that he was putting more pressure on Tric because Spin already had votes on him at that stage. That still seems like a reasonable interpretation, I think, but I do want to go over the rest of his posts while I read the thread again.
There's this weird interaction Superdorf has with Max where he grill Max and then turns around and votes Tric. It doesn't sit well with me. Am I chasing shadows here?Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place? Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?
TricMagic: Max claims never to have received this alignment confirmation of yours. Do you think he's lying?
This seems like a really weird line of argument:The reasoning I have for thinking his behaviour is suspect is that immediately after Spin died, RGU didn't seem to have any doubt that the scumteam would know that he's scum:To be honest, the most likely reason I can think of for you arguing this so much is that you are in a scum chat and didn't see a message about Spin being on your team.Why would scum want to highlight and discuss and draw attention to the exact composition of their team and knowledge? That doesn't seem like a "most likely reason" to me.
Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.
If Nirur is scum like y'all seem to think, tell me the story of how their Max vote was a bus not a genuine vote.Since Maximum Spin was a Mafioso Amnesiac, it's probable scum didn't really know he was part of their team either. It could have been scum just voting him thinking TricMagic's report was just wrong.
How do you know I’m not taking umbridge at this because I performed a daykill on MaxSpin?If you are a daykiller, why didn't you daykill? Furthermore, what role gave you a daykill? Why were you fine with his claim for most of the day?
How would you be sure if you had killed MaxSpin that NQT hadn’t tried, too? You can’t.If NQT tried to kill Spin, then he's not scum. If I killed Spin and NQT did it too, I'd still be counterclaiming him.
How would analyzing when they were active tell you anything, Shakerag still has to process the actions. Regardless, NQT didn’t claim until D2, at which point it becomes impossible to tell whether or not someone was active enough on the forums to send “kill MaxSpin” in a PM, even if they weren’t posting in the thread. Even then, more than one person can kill the same person, so how would you know either party was lying?These are all problems that can be solved by good old fashioned scumhunting. Counterclaiming draws attention to the initial claim. Attention that scum don't want in a power heavy set up. As such, a fakeclaim of a daykill would be extremely stupid, especially as the real daykiller has y'know, a daykill.
Thus, counterclaiming means nothing. Again, NQT can’t be shown to not have done it, so it follows the lack of a counterclaim means nothing because the real daykiller might have more shots and can’t say that NQT was fakeclaiming.
Why does it seem unlikely that someone with an interest in the mechanical aspect would fakeclaim?Its not whether or not they'd fakeclaim, its what they would fakeclaim. And this is not a good claim to fake.
So you think there are at least two scum left?I don't assume scum team makeups ever since I've played a game with no Mafia and 5 SKs.
Which other players do you think are suspicious? Do you think any of them are my partner?Superdorf and RGU are second and third on my list. DA is a distant fourth.
Okay. How is a kill fakeclaim easy to disprove?Vig roles can be found out in a number of ways. Role cops, Tracks, Watchmen, Autopsies, simple process of elimination during massclaim.
How is fakeclaiming a kill on scum different in this instance? Do you not consider this to be an edge case kinda thing given it would be NQT fakeclaiming a kill on a scumbuddy that was mechanically shown to be guilty? If not, why?
... I jest....hmm.
hector: Your reasoning for NQT's claim of the Spin kill being a fake-claim is (at least in part) that it's an easy fake-claim since no one would want to counter-claim him, right? But given that most of the people I've seen responding to your posts appear to disagree with that idea, how does it make sense that no-one has counter-claimed if someone else did the kill? Superdorf has claimed not to have done it, Persus would have counterclaimed based on his responses and Tric already took an action during the day.
Y’remember how you got annoyed at Kit for active-lurking on D1? Yeah you’ve been doing that a lot this day.Yeahh, uh, I'm feeling seriously burned out at the moment. I'd try and replace out, but it sounds like replacements aren't really a thing in this game. Me getting modkilled isn't conducive to a town victory, so I'm stuck trying to muddle on as best I can.
Deus Asmoth: D'you... d'you have anything else to say about Hector's recent postings? Or are you just gonna "hmm" and leave it at that?I clearly did say something else about hector's posts.
TricMagic, did your PM when you became goo state that your alignment was town?
RGU: why are you joining a bandwagon on someone you say you don't even think is scum rather than trying to push your case on the only person you think could actually be on the scum team? What makes you think hector probably isn't scum but probably is third party?
Is Tric conftown for getting a guilty result on a player that doesn't even know they're mafia? 'cause, presumably... actually...
Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?
If they don't, they could've thought Tric was talking nonsense, given they wouldn't know Max was part of their team and thus worth defending. Also, if Max did flip town - as I imagine they would be expecting - they know Tric is next on the chopping block, so they wouldn't need to vote for him until then, because otherwise it looks totes suspish.
[...]
RGUOkay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.
Between those that were against the Maximum Spin lynch were Nirur Torir and hector13, I think. Nirur Torir later voted for Maximum Spin too, and I completely agreed with hector13's arguments against TricMagic, so I can see it as him just getting "confused" by TricMagic's bizarre logic. (By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)
Out of everyone, Superdorf just seems the most likely to be scum. I'll try to build a case against him later, since I don't really have much time currently. Did I miss anything else?
See the stuff about amnesiac mafiosos in NQT's section, since I don't think the mafia team actually knew MaxSpin was a member, so basing any analysis on that is not a good idea until Shakerag informs us one way or another.
I was never against a MaxSpin lynch, I just wanted to understand why Tric made a cop claim hours into the start of the game, and why he targeted MaxSpin, because both of those things seemed to be not good play to me. He gave a sufficiently convincing explanation of why he at least targeted MaxSpin..
TricMagic:TricMagic, did your PM when you became goo state that your alignment was town?
You and Persus had 2 votes on Rgun. NQT votes hector, then Persus jumps to vote hector. What did you think I would do over such a quick vote change when I thought the day was going to end?That explains literally nothing about why you chose to vote for NQT. If anything it would imply you were suspicious of Persus.
Kinda a odd tack, why would Kit say he wasn't town?
Not sure on the personal attack front, but I never say whether I am town or not, mostly so I don't lie when I am mafia...
Anyhow, RGU, I’n not really liking this lack of questions for me if you don’t understand my game so far Why does me taking a different look at things than the majority make it more likely I’m anti-town anyway? I’m not sure why I’d want to stand out as either scum after a D1 daykill took out my teammate, or why I’d look to stand out as TP after that and a D1 SK lynch.Yeahh, you were plenty attention-drawing in our last game as Serial Killer. I don't buy it.
I’ve been drawing attention since D1, and helped direct a lynch away from someone who was inactive toward someone who was acting scummy, and we were rewarded with taking out anti-town.If you're mafia, killing the SK is a good thing. If you're SK, killing mafia is a good thing. That was some fine performance on your part, but it certainly doesn't clear you. You're giving us null-tells in your own defense, and I don't like it, Hector13. (Why have I not been using my vote more? I should be using my vote more.)
Apparently making an effort to refine my reads makes me scum, but whatever. Not sure how much I’ll be able to post before the deadline, but in case this nonsense doesn’t change, Persus is #1 for scum, Superdorf #2. DA is town, don’t touch him.Well, I know I look terrible right now, but why is Persus scum? Why is DA town?
RGU:
You're not sure if you want to lynch hector, but you're voting for him. You're giving Superdorf a newb-pass, you're not suspicious of the person you're now voting for and you read everyone else as town. Do you have a plan going forward or are you assuming that lynching hector ends the game?
And it's been pointed out already that there's no guarantee that king was scum.
I think RGU was referring to Nirur and MaxSpin as the two scum.
kingawsum was a miller, just in case he was meaning him.
Anyhow, RGU, I’n not really liking this lack of questions for me if you don’t understand my game so far Why does me taking a different look at things than the majority make it more likely I’m anti-town anyway? I’m not sure why I’d want to stand out as either scum after a D1 daykill took out my teammate, or why I’d look to stand out as TP after that and a D1 SK lynch.
I’ve been drawing attention since D1, and helped direct a lynch away from someone who was inactive toward someone who was acting scummy, and we were rewarded with taking out anti-town.
Anyhow, RGU, I’n not really liking this lack of questions for me if you don’t understand my game so far Why does me taking a different look at things than the majority make it more likely I’m anti-town anyway? I’m not sure why I’d want to stand out as either scum after a D1 daykill took out my teammate, or why I’d look to stand out as TP after that and a D1 SK lynch.Yeahh, you were plenty attention-drawing in our last game as Serial Killer. I don't buy it.I’ve been drawing attention since D1, and helped direct a lynch away from someone who was inactive toward someone who was acting scummy, and we were rewarded with taking out anti-town.If you're mafia, killing the SK is a good thing. If you're SK, killing mafia is a good thing. That was some fine performance on your part, but it certainly doesn't clear you. You're giving us null-tells in your own defense, and I don't like it, Hector13. (Why have I not been using my vote more? I should be using my vote more.)Apparently making an effort to refine my reads makes me scum, but whatever. Not sure how much I’ll be able to post before the deadline, but in case this nonsense doesn’t change, Persus is #1 for scum, Superdorf #2. DA is town, don’t touch him.Well, I know I look terrible right now, but why is Persus scum? Why is DA town?
lol suddenly you’re very sure of yourself when I say you’re at the top of the list of my scumpicks eh?
If we’re going by the meta of the last game, you were town and you were putting your fingers in everything, poking as much suspicious stuff as you could. This game has been the exact opposite, outside the stuff with MaxSpin and Tric you’ve been shit-scared to get stuck in with anything, posting little “oh I’m a scared little n00bie don’t hurt me” filler for the entirety of D2. Every time you posted that I reminded you to tell me why you thought I was suspicious before, and you disappeared again
PPE: now I’m apparently too stupid to learn from the mistakes I made in the last game. Great.
I don’t understand why nobody has been poking at me this entire game, man. I said it earlier, but we’ve had NQT, Superdorf and RGU say they were suspicious or couldn’t nail a read on me down, but you’ve each made little to no effort to poke and prod at me. IcyTea died before he could do anything about his similar feelings, but he didn’t seem particularly interested in engaging in anything beyond RVS stuff.You're just special that way. ;)
Does nobody know how to scumhunt anymore?
Shakerag: is it possible for scum to be involved in a mason chat?Do you suspect I'm in one?
No, RGU is talking nonsense about kingawsum maybe being scum with a miller role, which is silly. Do I need to keep telling people not to make assumptions?Ah. Thank you.
I wanted you to figure out why you thought I was suspicious, now you’re hopping on the biggest bandwagon a little bit before the deadline. You did the same thing with Kit yesterday, which was part of the reason I wanted you to make your case against me and ask me questions, so I could figure out your motives. You didn’t do that, prevaricated with filler “woe is me” posts which meant I couldn’t do that, and now, again, you’re hopping in the biggest bandwagon.
If you had been paying any attention, you would’ve pointed out I said I thought you were town before, but you’re not , you’re taking the path of least resistance and look as though you’re going with town, so tomorrow, after I’ve flipped town, you can say “well I’ve been saying all game long I’m having trouble and everyone else was voting hector so I thought they had a good point.”
I’ve already explained why I think Persus isn’t town. He had no interest in understanding my position behind scum fakeclaiming a daykill, prefering to tell me he thought scum wouldn’t fakeclaim, which was super helpful in showing me how I was wrong. /capital sarcasmWonderful, thank you. If you do somehow flip town after all I'll know who to look into.
Consequently I understand what IcyTea was talking about regarding arguing in bad faith in the last game.Is this directed at me or at Persus?
lol suddenly you’re very sure of yourself when I say you’re at the top of the list of my scumpicks eh?When did you call me "top at the list of my scumpicks"? At the time I posted, your top scumpick was Persus yes? What am I missing here?
Shakerag: is it possible for scum to be involved in a mason chat?It's possible, depending on circumstances.
Shakerag: can mafia members have miller role?It's possible.
[/quote]Shakerag: is it possible for scum to be involved in a mason chat?Do you suspect I'm in one?
Shakerag: can mafia members have miller role?Considering there was an Amnesiac Mafioso Mafia member and the game premise, I wouldn't be surprised if that was an option.
I’ve already explained why I think Persus isn’t town. He had no interest in understanding my position behind scum fakeclaiming a daykill, prefering to tell me he thought scum wouldn’t fakeclaim, which was super helpful in showing me how I was wrong. /capital sarcasmYou gave your reasons why you thought it would be beneficial for scum to fakeclaim a daykill. I gave you a list of reasons why they wouldn't.
That's a jab at me.Consequently I understand what IcyTea was talking about regarding arguing in bad faith in the last game.Is this directed at me or at Persus?
PPE: you and RGU seem to think I’m going to make the same mistakes I made in my previous game in this one, instead of learning from them and adapting my play if I roll anti-town again.Ah. That was more of your sarcasm. Of course. You're saying, then, that you would not attempt to take refuge in audacity as a Serial Killer? We shouldn't think you're a Serial Killer, because if you were you would do a better job of it than this? I call WIFOM.
I’ve already explained why I think Persus isn’t town. He had no interest in understanding my position behind scum fakeclaiming a daykill, prefering to tell me he thought scum wouldn’t fakeclaim, which was super helpful in showing me how I was wrong. /capital sarcasmYou gave your reasons why you thought it would be beneficial for scum to fakeclaim a daykill. I gave you a list of reasons why they wouldn't.
You did. Then I tried to explain why I disagreed and share my thought process, and you kept restating your list, as though I were a slow child having trouble understanding a simple idea.Oh I know they'll changes things up, its just if they changed up this one they are in serious danger of dying. Secondly, you say now you were just trying to get a read on NQT, but from my perspective it looked like you were trying to lynch him over the fact that he might be fakeclaiming. I can understand wanting to make sure the "confirmed town" was town. I don't understand why that strangely became your sole goal in life. And after your interactions with Kit at the beginning of the day, I was already pretty suspicious of you.
I understand your simple idea, and wanted to explore an alternative, but you had no interest in that, nor in the motivation behind it. You apparently think scum are going to conform to the way you think they’re going to act every single time, and never deviate. Optimal play, erry time.
NQT gave me misgivings on D1. He alluded to having information about you, but wouldn’t say what it was, only that he’d reveal it on D2, pinky promise. Red flag number 1, he’s happy to say he has information the town needs, but not share it now.Yeah, he does stuff like that all the time (including breadcrumbing). Also, revealing information early on is not helpful to town except under certain conditions, and having a buddy role is not one of those conditions.
A little later he slides that over to a player who has 0 posts. Sensible move... but disappears and leaves it on said player for the remainder of the day. Red flag number 2, activity is not alignment indicative, and this was not a good place to have a vote at the end of the day. Easily explained away as being too busy to change the vote.I don't see this as alignment indicative either. Being inactive during day end happens to both scum and town. Have you asked NQT for an explanation of this?
D2, he claims he misread his PM, lol that information I had isn’t all that useful, Persus is my BUDDY. Red flag 3, the information that he alluded to on D1 as being useful then turns out to actually not be that useful after all.Yeah, none of that is surprising to me.
How would you approach trying to figure out NQT’s alignment in this instance?You've already gotten that answer for me, but tunneling that player wouldn't be my response.
Because it is easy to say I'm town. As in line with my play, I will never say that outside of a mistake. Mostly for cases where it isn't true.This doesn't have anything to do with what I asked you. You also haven't responded to my point about your reasons for voting NQT being nonsensical.
Likewise, we can only really trust Kit's that he is town. Not a very useful inquiry unless it's to try and lynch me off a personal gameplay point.
How does me saying "I'm Town" help any?
Huh. So RGU had a point back there. Cool. Now I'm wondering about a thing he said, though.
RGU: Wait wait wait, Hector's one of your null-tells? Is that the closest thing to a scum-read you have right now?
Tric:Because it is easy to say I'm town. As in line with my play, I will never say that outside of a mistake. Mostly for cases where it isn't true.This doesn't have anything to do with what I asked you. You also haven't responded to my point about your reasons for voting NQT being nonsensical.
Likewise, we can only really trust Kit's that he is town. Not a very useful inquiry unless it's to try and lynch me off a personal gameplay point.
How does me saying "I'm Town" help any?
You and Persus had 2 votes on Rgun. NQT votes hector, then Persus jumps to vote hector. What did you think I would do over such a quick vote change when I thought the day was going to end?
I didn't ignore your answer. I said it doesn't mane any sense, since as I already said that answer makes it look like you were suspicious of Persus, not NQT. Do you think Persus is scum that's playing with NQT? If you do, why haven't you mentioned that at all? If you don't, what bearing does Persus changing his vote have on whether NQT should be lynched or not? I feel like there's some kind of moon logic going on here that you think should be obvious to everyone even though you've never said what it is.You and Persus had 2 votes on Rgun. NQT votes hector, then Persus jumps to vote hector. What did you think I would do over such a quick vote change when I thought the day was going to end?
Yep, this thing. I ask again why you seem to be trying to build up some sort of momentum on me. You just bolded a question, and seem to be trying to ignore my answer to ask another question I already answered.
I have answered. You do not accept that answer.That's correct, because your answer makes no damn sense and you refuse to elaborate on your logic any further than "Persus did something, so NQT is scum."
Beyond that, if you are suspicious of Kit due to WIFOM, vote.I wouldn't have to be suspicious of him due to WIFOM if your would answer my question and not be such a lunatic.
Hector, NQT, Persus. And probably you most of all. On top of Kit's own claims on a report. Not the slime thing, but the claim that only I visited him, when my Mimicry should have redirected others. And what if he tried to kill me, but a doctor targeted me? Right now, that info isn't out.What does this even mean?
Why are you tunneling me Dues?I don't think you know what tunneling is.
Do you have something to make you believe I'm not town?The fact that you're withholding information for no apparent reason and are now voting for someone because they asked you to justify a previous vote of yours would certainly indicate that you have no intention of helping the town to win.
Tric:I didn't ignore your answer. I said it doesn't mane any sense, since as I already said that answer makes it look like you were suspicious of Persus, not NQT. Do you think Persus is scum that's playing with NQT? If you do, why haven't you mentioned that at all? If you don't, what bearing does Persus changing his vote have on whether NQT should be lynched or not? I feel like there's some kind of moon logic going on here that you think should be obvious to everyone even though you've never said what it is.You and Persus had 2 votes on Rgun. NQT votes hector, then Persus jumps to vote hector. What did you think I would do over such a quick vote change when I thought the day was going to end?
Yep, this thing. I ask again why you seem to be trying to build up some sort of momentum on me. You just bolded a question, and seem to be trying to ignore my answer to ask another question I already answered.
I wasn't suspicious of you beforehand, but your reactions to basic questions trying to confirm someone else's claims (which you STILL haven't answered) and inability to explain why you do anything are certainly starting to make me that way.
Secret of the Ooze
Secret <Twin>: You don't know what your role does. <You are an identical twin with Nirur Torir, but your twin doesn't know about you. Any actions targeting one of you will target the other instead.>
Secret <Green Goo>: You don't know what your role does. <Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo themselves.>
Amnesiac Jackie Chan: You have lost your memory. You might eventually regain it. <An Amnesiac has a 1 in 3 chance of regaining his memory each morning.>
Mystery <Inventor>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can give another player a random 1-shot ability.> Actions: mystery
Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo.
*********************************
Jackie Chan: You can kill another player each night. You are immune to all actions. Actions: kill
TricMagic:Did the message that informed you of becoming Green Goo also inform you of you alignment?TricMagic:TricMagic, did your PM when you became goo state that your alignment was town?
No kills two nights running? Cultist is lynched? Yep, we're dealing with a cult here.What are your thoughts on a mass claim?
Superdorf, do you have any more information to add to your claim?Not really. I could just fullclaim my role... is it time for that? I don't know if it's time for that.
Also, Goo roles tend to be common in these types of games because of how easily they can spread.What point are you trying to make here? That Kit's Goo-ing could have come from somebody else?
Oh. Shakerag, if a Green/Black Goo is killed, will we see their old roles or just their Goo?When a player roleflips, you see their current role.
Disgusting. I may never know if it was Secret Green Goo that did me in.I will post all original roles at the end of the game, along with day/night action processing.
Were you able to inspect anybody D1?Was I able to? Yes, but I didn't use the ability then.
Point of order: I'm pretty sure someone tried to kill me last night, so I don't think it's guaranteed that the scum team has no kills.Were you able to inspect anybody D1?Was I able to? Yes, but I didn't use the ability then.
If I remember correctly, there was some inconsistency regarding the whole green goo situation that happened yesterday. Something about the action order and redirects? At first, I assumed that they just made each other goo and didn't pay much attention, but now that hector13 flipped black goo, it's possible they both visited hector13 and became cultists. I doubt that there would be 2 green goo roles, too, so the reason of their erratic behavoir and plan to "goo everyone" could have been an attempt to get cultists.Tric and Kit claimed that Tric used Mimicry on Kit, and then Kit used Night Watchmen on Tric. This meant both of them targeted Kit, who ad a Secret Role that possibly turned both of them into Green Goo. Tric doubted this story because he didn't think that only Kit would target him, and because it was Tric and Kit at the center of this, a lot of people were confused. Personally, I think that Kit and Tric behaving erratically is par for the course with both of them. I also think it wouldn't surprise me if Shakerag threw in a bunch of Secret roles, because it sounds like a bunch of people have them, and so there's a higher chance of there being repeats that way. But if you can prove that they somehow joined a cult, I'll be happy to hear it.
There are 6 players currently alive, 0-2 possible cultists and 0-1 possible scum. If we lynch the possible scum, regardless of if we lynch correctly or not, cult would be one kill or member from outnumbering the town. If we lynch one of the possible cultists, the game won't end since scum and third party need to get rid of each other to win, giving us more time. And even if we try to lynch a possible cultist and get it wrong, that still reduces it to 1 possible cultist and 1 possible scum.If you're right about Kit and Tric being cult, they can't really do anything right now, so I think going after the last Mafia is a better bet.
Point of order: I'm pretty sure someone tried to kill me last night, so I don't think it's guaranteed that the scum team has no kills.Who did you visit N1 then?Were you able to inspect anybody D1?Was I able to? Yes, but I didn't use the ability then.
Who did you visit N1 then?Night 1 I used a Protect ability on Persus. To be honest I should have used the inspect that night, but I only inherited the inspect at the end of the day (I started as a retired cop). I didn't protect Tric because I'd tried to drop a couple of doctor hints during D1 and was trying to second-guess the scumteam.
I'll have to look at this properly later. In the meantime, I too am curious to hear from Deus why he's so certain about that attempted kill.At the end of the night I got a generic kill ability. I have a Cyborg ability which would make me both immune to kills and gain abilities after being targeted by one. So either I was targeted by a kill last night or someone else has gifted me a kill ability.
If I remember correctly, there was some inconsistency regarding the whole green goo situation that happened yesterday. Something about the action order and redirects? At first, I assumed that they just made each other goo and didn't pay much attention, but now that hector13 flipped black goo, it's possible they both visited hector13 and became cultists. I doubt that there would be 2 green goo roles, too, so the reason of their erratic behavoir and plan to "goo everyone" could have been an attempt to get cultists.Tric and Kit claimed that Tric used Mimicry on Kit, and then Kit used Night Watchmen on Tric. This meant both of them targeted Kit, who ad a Secret Role that possibly turned both of them into Green Goo. Tric doubted this story because he didn't think that only Kit would target him, and because it was Tric and Kit at the center of this, a lot of people were confused. Personally, I think that Kit and Tric behaving erratically is par for the course with both of them. I also think it wouldn't surprise me if Shakerag threw in a bunch of Secret roles, because it sounds like a bunch of people have them, and so there's a higher chance of there being repeats that way. But if you can prove that they somehow joined a cult, I'll be happy to hear it.There are 6 players currently alive, 0-2 possible cultists and 0-1 possible scum. If we lynch the possible scum, regardless of if we lynch correctly or not, cult would be one kill or member from outnumbering the town. If we lynch one of the possible cultists, the game won't end since scum and third party need to get rid of each other to win, giving us more time. And even if we try to lynch a possible cultist and get it wrong, that still reduces it to 1 possible cultist and 1 possible scum.If you're right about Kit and Tric being cult, they can't really do anything right now, so I think going after the last Mafia is a better bet.Point of order: I'm pretty sure someone tried to kill me last night, so I don't think it's guaranteed that the scum team has no kills.Who did you visit N1 then?Were you able to inspect anybody D1?Was I able to? Yes, but I didn't use the ability then.
Cool. So there's a chance for you to be Insane or Paranoid. Actually, what kind of Protect did you use?Who did you visit N1 then?Night 1 I used a Protect ability on Persus. To be honest I should have used the inspect that night, but I only inherited the inspect at the end of the day (I started as a retired cop). I didn't protect Tric because I'd tried to drop a couple of doctor hints during D1 and was trying to second-guess the scumteam.
I mean, it's possible that only one of them became a green goo cultist through hector13. If KitRougard had the green goo ability, it would be possible that he visited hector13 and that TricMagic visited him. So, if there is a cultist, it has to be KitRougard. If there's two, it's probably KitRougard and TricMagic. I can't exactly prove they're cultists, like I couldn't prove yesterday that hector13 is a third, but I'm still suspicious.Tric Magic still got gooed, so if Kit gooed Tric Magic, he would have already had a goo role. I suppose now the main thing is how confident you are in Kit's fakeclaiming abilities.
You're right about that, since any cultist would also be a green goo and lack any abilities like kills. In the other hand, Deus Asmoth claims to be a cyborg and have a kill ability. Maybe we could lynch KitRougard and kill Superdorf? If Superdorf is scum and tries to stop the kill, he wouldn't be able to kill durpng the same night because he would have to use his action. Then we could just lynch him the next day.
I did not anticipate that *Unknown* would bamboozle like that.KitRougard did claim at the start of D2 that he had an unknown ability, which he said was green goo. Since TricMagic also claimed to have visited him, then either:
So hi I'm green goo I no longer have any sort of useful abilities
Shakerag: Can somebody be both green and black goo at the same time? Or would one "overwrite" the other?Technically it could happen if someone were, say, a Black Goo and then gifted a Green Goo ability. But in the sense that I *think* you're implying, no.
Tric:
Did the message that informed you of becoming Green Goo also inform you of you alignment?
Actually answer this question. Now. Even if you've think you've answered it already. Even if you think you don't need to. Just answer the damn question.
You're right about that, since any cultist would also be a green goo and lack any abilities like kills. In the other hand, Deus Asmoth claims to be a cyborg and have a kill ability. Maybe we could lynch KitRougard and kill Superdorf? If Superdorf is scum and tries to stop the kill, he wouldn't be able to kill durpng the same night because he would have to use his action. Then we could just lynch him the next day.To be honest, I'm still more inclined to kill you than I am Superdorf. I only inspected him in the hopes of clearing him after hector's last posts.
This is true, yes. It was a doctor protect.Cool. So there's a chance for you to be Insane or Paranoid. Actually, what kind of Protect did you use?Who did you visit N1 then?Night 1 I used a Protect ability on Persus. To be honest I should have used the inspect that night, but I only inherited the inspect at the end of the day (I started as a retired cop). I didn't protect Tric because I'd tried to drop a couple of doctor hints during D1 and was trying to second-guess the scumteam.
TricMagic.Tric:
Did the message that informed you of becoming Green Goo also inform you of you alignment?
Actually answer this question. Now. Even if you've think you've answered it already. Even if you think you don't need to. Just answer the damn question.
That I can answer. It did inform me of my alignment.
Point of order: I'm pretty sure someone tried to kill me last night, so I don't think it's guaranteed that the scum team has no kills.Were you able to inspect anybody D1?Was I able to? Yes, but I didn't use the ability then.
Likely cause he doesn't particularly like my roles. That's how they were.
Why are you so sure someone tried to kill you?
At the end of the night I got a generic kill ability. I have a Cyborg ability which would make me both immune to kills and gain abilities after being targeted by one. So either I was targeted by a kill last night or someone else has gifted me a kill ability.
Cyborg (town, sk; super-rare; 4+ players): Whenever you are targeted by an ability, you gain that ability. It still has its normal effect on you. You are immune to kills.
Generic Kill ability. Sure...
Er. I'm glad you like me and all, but why does Tric's answer incriminate him?Because he annoyed the crap out of me for most of yesterday and I want him dead.
If you can tell me what the apparent discrepancy is than I'll be happy to answer that question for you.Cyborg (town, sk; super-rare; 4+ players): Whenever you are targeted by an ability, you gain that ability. It still has its normal effect on you. You are immune to kills.
Generic Kill ability. Sure...
Now this is intriguing.
Deus: Why the discrepancy?
Beyond that, he was insisting hector was scum towards the end of day 1 and then made no mention of that through day 2, he's incredibly reluctant to answer questions which I don't accept as just being a part of his meta, and he voted for NQT for no logical reason when hector was the only other person who thought NQT was scum. Knowing that hector was a cult leader, I think there's a fair chance that all that means that he and Kit were converted during N1. If we lynch Tric and he's not cult then at least it'll clear Kit, and Kit is more likely to be useful alive than Tric.
If you can tell me what the apparent discrepancy is than I'll be happy to answer that question for you.
I'll kinda note that was based upon someone trying to turn us into cult. Just a gut reaction to Dues Asmoth.
Note, Backed off of hector cause I had no way to confirm him as town. Had I done so, I would be Cult right now, wouldn't I? Why did you not notice that type of interaction? I could be lying and am a Green Slime, and Kit's hidden ability wasn't. See what I mean by jumbled paths?
Also Dorf, I am really starting to find you suspicious...
I really, really think that wouldn't clear him at all. While it's possible that both did visit hector13, there's no possible case in which TricMagic would be cult and KitRougard not, since KitRougard wouldn't have transformed into a green goo otherwise. So, if TricMagic visited hector13 and didn't target KitRougard with his mimic, then KitRougard did target hector13 and is also a cultist.Yes, that's my point. If Tric is lynched and flips as cult, then Kit is also cult and we can lynch him tomorrow. If Tric flips as town then Kit is also likely town, or at least not cult.
Did I ever stop being suspiscous of Hector dorf?
Also, because he is raising red flags, as you put it. He has been doing so all game to me.
I really, really think that wouldn't clear him at all. While it's possible that both did visit hector13, there's no possible case in which TricMagic would be cult and KitRougard not, since KitRougard wouldn't have transformed into a green goo otherwise. So, if TricMagic visited hector13 and didn't target KitRougard with his mimic, then KitRougard did target hector13 and is also a cultist.Yes, that's my point. If Tric is lynched and flips as cult, then Kit is also cult and we can lynch him tomorrow. If Tric flips as town then Kit is also likely town, or at least not cult.
Plus if we can agree on who the most likely person to be scum is (since I'm not comfortable counting King as definite scum) then I can at least shoot that person tonight, which I can't do for black goos.
0% Forensics Expert (town; super-rare; 10+ players): You may perform an autopsy on a dead player, possibly giving you information about that player's killer. This role's actions always fail. Actions: (day)autopsy
Deus Asmoth, I hereby find you guilty of attempting to start a bandwagon against a known town member, using my hate-vote as a stepping stone.Sure. Can you explain how Tric is known town at this point, how your vote has any impact on the point I raised against Tric and also how you've suddenly changed your mind about whether Tric should be lynched now that there's an actual danger of it happening?
I didn't even realize I had baited you in my wrath until I actually woke in a cold sweat last night.
Anyone need a better explanation of why Deus needs lynched?
What do you mean when you say it "came up blank"? Can you be more specific?
You raised a point against Tric BECAUSE there was potential to bandwagon them - If I hadn't voted them, you wouldn't have brought up a point.What a great strategy! Whenever I get put on the scumteam I should always immediately vote for my allies at the start of each day, because that way no one with legitimate points against them will ever be able to start a case one them!
No problem! I realized Tric was pro town when I thought about that easy lynch from Nosy Neighbor D1.This has nothing to do with Tric's current alignment since he would have had to become cult during Night 1 at the earliest.
You raised a point against Tric BECAUSE there was potential to bandwagon them - If I hadn't voted them, you wouldn't have brought up a point.No I didn't. Your vote had literally no bearing on me voting for Tric specifically because your vote had no weight behind it, and also because you're both probably in a cult together. By your logic I shouldn't have voted for either of you since both you and Tric had votes on you already.
Now here's an explanation of accidental top-tier gameplay everyone!How is my case in any way based on your vote?
I vote Tric in a fit of rage. Scum/Cult see a chance to lynch an otherwise KNOWN townie, and start to build a case based upon my vote. I pull the rug out from under them when I get my emotional bearings back in check, watch them fall, and run them over. Make sense?
Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that Superdorf and DA claimed Mafia inspects on each other?No, but as I've mentioned I think it's better to lynch the probable cultists and have me shoot one of Superdorf or RGU. My preference is RGU for this, but it's going to take two days to lynch both Tric and Kit, which gives me time to kill both Superdorf and RGU if necessary. Regarding Superdorf's inspect on me, I know that his result on me isn't accurate, but that either means that my result on him also is wrong or he lied about his result after he was made aware that he got inspected.
There currently is 0 evidence that Tric and Kit are more likely to be cultists than anyone else in the game.Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that Superdorf and DA claimed Mafia inspects on each other?No, but as I've mentioned I think it's better to lynch the probable cultists
There currently is 0 evidence that Tric and Kit are more likely to be cultists than anyone else in the game.Aside from Tric's sudden turnaround on hector and willingness to support hector against NQT for no given reason, sure.
Deus, why is the cult idea more likely than the mafia at this stage, for you?Do you mean why do I think it's more likely that Tric and Kit are cult than mafia? If that's the case, it would either require two scum teams, with Tric using an inspect that informs his target of his alignment when used or one scumteam with Tric deciding to bus one of his teammates out of the blue on day 1. I could kind of see mafia-Tric using that inspection, but it would be a pointlessly risky thing to do. Plus two scum teams plus a cult seems like a pretty hard game for the town to win.
Why is everyone wasting their time on Tric and Kit? Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that Superdorf and DA claimed Mafia inspects on each other?
RandomGenericUsername Demonstrate evidence why you are not cult like I've asked previously.
So, Kit couldn't have got culted N1 from targeting Tric. Tric could have become a goo from targeting Hector, but that gooiness wouldn't have spread to Kit on the same night. As such, while she might be some other alignment, I think it's not possible for Kit to be a black goo cultist unless both Tric and Kit independently targeted Hector N1 and then co-ordinated their claim in a shared cult chat.
Now, unless I've missed something, this is possible and would gel with their nominal plan to force and All Town win by getting everyone to target Tric and Kit. We can test this theory by flipping one of them today-- and given the danger of a cult I think that that might be a plan worth considering.
However, if both are now black goos, as this theory would require... either way they're actually harmless if we don't target them and we can afford to chase the possibility of mafia (and if they're not scum, having them alive is a good thing!)
Though it is telling perhaps that they're now acting as a voting bloc on Deus...
So as for the Superdorf-Deus inspection debacle? They've both claimed mafia inspects on one another and we should resolve it one way or the other.
Deus, why is the cult idea more likely than the mafia at this stage, for you?
Shakerag, if a player that has both Green Goo and Black Goo is targeted by an ability, will the ability's user become Green Goo or Black Goo?In a case like that, it would be a 50/50 chance of either.
Do the Cultists have their own chat?Bay12 is being picky..
Cult alignment always gets a chat as far as I can think of, yes.Do the Cultists have their own chat?Bay12 is being picky..
Shakerag, question above's answer?
Persus: I'm not sure what I think of this "guilty until proven innocent" thing you have going with RGU. Do you have reason to believe he is cult?RGU ignored my earlier attempt to get him to claim, so I voted him to get his attention. Considering that Tric and Kit had claimed their night actions, and he hadn't, its entirely possible he's cult trying to deflect attention away from him. Its unlikely
Persus which of the wagons do you favour?I think I've made it abundantly clear that I think the whole Tric/Kit cult scenario is a wild goose chase that requires them to be masters of fakeclaiming one day before they needed to. The two of them talking to each other trying to figure out what happened N1 at the start of D2 doesn't seem like an elaborate ruse to disguise the fact that they're cult. And while they are currently both voting DA, the alternative seems to be one of them being lynched, and they've been at loggerheads with each other and hector13 fairly consistently the rest of the time. Sure none of them were voting each other at the end of D2, but that's not enough evidence for me. And if they both are Cult, they can't do anything during the night anyways.
I'm more interested in why my Myopic Peeping Tom failed N1 and worked N2. Because right now the only person who claimed targeting me N1 is DA. I also targeted Kit N1 with a night action, so either Kit and Tric are both telling the truth, both lying, or I got blocked. So I'd be much happier with a DA or Superdorf lynch than either Kit or Tric.What results did you get N2 for it?
The target went nowhere. So far there's three people who have claimed doing that N2.Myopic Peeping Tom (town; super-rare; 4+ players): Each night, you will learn who another player targeted with their night action. It is the same player each night, but you don't know who. Actions: (auto)track
I'm more interested in why my Myopic Peeping Tom failed N1 and worked N2. Because right now the only person who claimed targeting me N1 is DA. I also targeted Kit N1 with a night action, so either Kit and Tric are both telling the truth, both lying, or I got blocked. So I'd be much happier with a DA or Superdorf lynch than either Kit or Tric.
And if you happen to be a cultist? Or Mafia for that matter, as gaining one of every ability to target you would be way too useful to choose who to kill.I already have a kill. What ability do you think would be more useful for me if I wanted to kill people?
So Deus, you mentioned earlier that you'd currently kill RGU over me-- do you have a case on him? If so, I'm curious to hear it.It's primarily the same case I had during D2, but there's an additional reason behind it too. If I kill you I lose access to my kill, so you have to be the last person that I use a kill on if that's the way we end up doing it.
Or I targeted Kit and didn't become a Green Goo because Tric used his Mimic ability on Kit which meant I targeted Tric instead. Y'know, like they claimed yesterday to have done. Or I just got blocked.I'm more interested in why my Myopic Peeping Tom failed N1 and worked N2. Because right now the only person who claimed targeting me N1 is DA. I also targeted Kit N1 with a night action, so either Kit and Tric are both telling the truth, both lying, or I got blocked. So I'd be much happier with a DA or Superdorf lynch than either Kit or Tric.
Hold on, doesn't that confirm that they're both cultists? The only way the couldn't be part of the cult would be if KitRougard had the secret green goo role. If you really did target Kit during N1 and didn't become a green goo, then that means both KitRougard and TricMagic did visit hector13 and lie about what happened during that night.
Or I targeted Kit and didn't become a Green Goo because Tric used his Mimic ability on Kit which meant I targeted Tric instead. Y'know, like they claimed yesterday to have done. Or I just got blocked.I'm more interested in why my Myopic Peeping Tom failed N1 and worked N2. Because right now the only person who claimed targeting me N1 is DA. I also targeted Kit N1 with a night action, so either Kit and Tric are both telling the truth, both lying, or I got blocked. So I'd be much happier with a DA or Superdorf lynch than either Kit or Tric.
Hold on, doesn't that confirm that they're both cultists? The only way the couldn't be part of the cult would be if KitRougard had the secret green goo role. If you really did target Kit during N1 and didn't become a green goo, then that means both KitRougard and TricMagic did visit hector13 and lie about what happened during that night.
Dues, not Mafia can turn out to have no kills at all in this game on Role Generation. And Town can have kills. While having a Kill ability doesn't make you mafia, claiming you suddenly gained it doesn't clear you as town either.This would be a great point if it didn't completely ignore everything else I said about the kill that I gained and my reasoning for why it only makes sense if it came from a mafia player.
Also, I fotgot to mention that I gained the revive during the first night, so there's someone that has a power to to gift abilities to other players. If so, it's possible the kill Deus Asmoth claimed was the result of a gift. The Satan role, for example, seems to stay hidden to those who have it, so maybe Deus was targeted by someone who had that role and didn't know. Deus might have even gained the role and wasn't informed of it, as it stays hidden like the sanity modifiers on cops.Satan and Santa both give one-shot actions. The kill I gained isn't one-shot, so it can't have come from those roles. Plus if there is a targeted action that grants permanent abilities I should have also gained a copy of that action.
While having a Kill ability doesn't make you mafia, claiming you suddenly gained it doesn't clear you as town either.
- A tie vote at the end of the day results in a no lynch.
About that, we haven't even confirmed the existence of said scum. I mean, no one has been nightkilled during the entire game and I doubt scum (or possibly a serial killer) would fail to kill for 3 consecutive nights.The main reason I'm convinced that there's still a scum player is because no one's been able to explain why my track failed N1, and the Mafia usually have more than one player on their team.
Persus13: Is RGU scum? If so, why?I've answered why I'm voting RGU already. And I've made it fairly clear I don't intend to vote him at day end.
I'm waiting to see what Persus chooses. It'll be instructive. I think a cult is a bigger risk than scum, but if it's a goo cult they're actually hard to spread. I think Deus's last post made a lot of sense, but if Deus is a mafia Cyborg he'll be difficult to handle if he's night-action immune. Still, if he's town we're shooting us all in the face if we kill Deus and he can NK mafia. But if he NK's a cult member, then he'll turn cult through goo and we'll be back where we started.From something Shakerag said I was under the impression that the cult couldn't spread now that Hector's dead.
Warp (town, survivor; super-rare; 4+ players): Each night, you will cause all actions targeting a random player to fail. You don't learn who that player is. Actions: (auto)shield
HipQuote from: WarpWarp (town, survivor; super-rare; 4+ players): Each night, you will cause all actions targeting a random player to fail. You don't learn who that player is. Actions: (auto)shieldWell that means that my Peeping Tom is either on Superdorf or Tric.
I've been looking at this post for like half an hour now trying to make a decision. I just don't trust Deus Asmoth, but if we don't lynch Tric all y'all will be worrying about the cult for the rest of the game.
Deus Asmoth: Have you made a decision about who you will be targeting tonight?About that, we haven't even confirmed the existence of said scum. I mean, no one has been nightkilled during the entire game and I doubt scum (or possibly a serial killer) would fail to kill for 3 consecutive nights.The main reason I'm convinced that there's still a scum player is because no one's been able to explain why my track failed N1, and the Mafia usually have more than one player on their team.Persus13: Is RGU scum? If so, why?I've answered why I'm voting RGU already. And I've made it fairly clear I don't intend to vote him at day end.
EBWOP: Well that means that my Peeping Tom is either on Superdorf or Tric.
I just worded that very, very badly. What I meant to say with that was that Deus could be the real scum and was lying about having been targeted with a kill, not that there's no scum. What I was tryig to say was that we can't confirm if Deus was actually the target if a kill or if there's a kill at all since no one died during the other night either.Day end isn't something I'm worried about.
Even so, it's about 30 minutes before the day end, so I really think you should be voting for either TricMagic or Deus Asmoth, unless you want to waste the day with a tie.
That's a good point. Guess its on Tric or NQT, since he hasn't claimed what he did last night.EBWOP: Well that means that my Peeping Tom is either on Superdorf or Tric.
I checked with Shakerag, and I should have shown as visiting Deus Asmoth last night.
Turns out I was wrong about that. I did say I wasn't in front of my notes and made an assumption.EBWOP: Well that means that my Peeping Tom is either on Superdorf or Tric.
I checked with Shakerag, and I should have shown as visiting Deus Asmoth last night.
You have no abilities.
Radioactive Dr. Horror
Plutonium: When you die, you can mutate another player into a new role.
Secret <Mirror>: You don't know what your role does. <Whenever someone targets you with an ability, you will target them with the same ability.>
Yellow Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they lose the ability to use that action and you gain it. This even affects group actions.
<0%> Forensics Expert: You may perform an autopsy on a dead player, possibly giving you information about that player's killer. <This role's actions always fail.> Actions: (day)autopsy
Sleeper Bodyguard: Right now, you don't have any powers, but if Deus Asmoth dies you will become a Bodyguard.
<Paranoid> Cop: You can inspect another player to learn their alignment. Your results are not guaranteed to be accurate. <A paranoid cop always gets mafia results.> Actions: inspect
Persus, same question.I targeted NQT with my night ability. Same as I did the night before. I'm currently waiting for a response to Shakerag, so I'll let you know what happened with my auto track once I get a response.
Persus13, why did you kill SuperDorf and then lie about it?Why haven't you claimed any of your night actions?
Not only do I have process of elimination on my side here but I also just used a one-shot forensic expert power on the still warm corpse of SuperDorf and you were the killer. One-shot forensics are always sane on Xylbot. So why the lie?
RGU: Did you inspect NQT during D1 or are you going off his vote on Spin?He already claimed inspecting NQT N1 and getting a town result.
I targeted Deus. Unfortunately, I don't know what I did. Due to the tags, I can narrow it down to about 8 different possibilities, most either positive or harmless. If you picked up a power with a Mystery tag, that would be it. (Though it's possible the power copy strips powers of their mystery.)Nevermind, I missed this role in my summary. I also have a mystery role I've been using on you as a protect.
Or if you keep getting abilities each night, that might also be me.I targeted Deus. Unfortunately, I don't know what I did. Due to the tags, I can narrow it down to about 8 different possibilities, most either positive or harmless. If you picked up a power with a Mystery tag, that would be it. (Though it's possible the power copy strips powers of their mystery.)Nevermind, I missed this role in my summary. I also have a mystery role I've been using on you as a protect.
If I targeted Superdorf with a kill I'd be dead from his Mirror ability. However, since the target of my auto track visited me last night, and I'd already narrowed it down to be Superdorf or Tric, my theory is that my secret role is a PGO. So I'm interested in why Deus Asmoth seems to be lying about targeting RGU last night and targeting me N1.
I don't recall being immune to night kills at all. Also, if I had been targeted with a kill, I should probably have died and revived on the spot, which didn't happen as far as I know.Do you have a Secret role at all?
About NQT, at least he was town during the first day. I doubt he's scum, but it's possible he might have been converted and is now part of the black goo cult.NQT was the first to vote hector the day hector got lynched. I don't think Hector would be making such a big deal about fighting NQT's daykill claim if both were cult. You can't be cult because DA says they got your human shield, and DA can't be cult because they hit Superdorf with a Cop ability. So cult isn't a threat.
If you were immune to kills N1, then I apologize for claiming you were lying about that. But I'm pretty sure somethings fishy going on between your targeting of RGU last night, so right now I'm sure that the last scum is either you or RGU.If I targeted Superdorf with a kill I'd be dead from his Mirror ability. However, since the target of my auto track visited me last night, and I'd already narrowed it down to be Superdorf or Tric, my theory is that my secret role is a PGO. So I'm interested in why Deus Asmoth seems to be lying about targeting RGU last night and targeting me N1.
I didn't lie about targeting you during N1. Of course, I was also immune to kills at that stage. Thankfully I think that I can at least sort out whether or not you're lying about this.
Well if you're telling the truth about being a PGO, we're both about to be dead. So if the game isn't over at that point I guess the survivors can lynch RGU.Not sure what you're saying here.
Shakerag: If a player with Cyborg is targeted by a Mystery ability, will they get the Mystery version of that ability or the normal version?
RGU: Did you inspect NQT during D1 or are you going off his vote on Spin?I thought said I had a 1-shot investigation before, which is why I was reading him as town plus his vote on Maximum Spin. Thete's the possibility he might have visited someone like TricMagic during the later days and became a cultist, considering he refused to claim about what he had done during the night before.
I don't have any secret abilities, other than a Mystery action I haven't used for the whole game. I could be a Commando, which would explain why didn't I die if Deus Asmoth did target me with a kill. I would proably still revive from a lynch, anyways.I don't recall being immune to night kills at all. Also, if I had been targeted with a kill, I should probably have died and revived on the spot, which didn't happen as far as I know.Do you have a Secret role at all?About NQT, at least he was town during the first day. I doubt he's scum, but it's possible he might have been converted and is now part of the black goo cult.NQT was the first to vote hector the day hector got lynched. I don't think Hector would be making such a big deal about fighting NQT's daykill claim if both were cult. You can't be cult because DA says they got your human shield, and DA can't be cult because they hit Superdorf with a Cop ability. So cult isn't a threat.
NYPD detective John McClane
Survivor: No description.
<0%>Forensics Expert: You may perform an autopsy on a dead player, possibly giving you information about that player's killer. <This role's actions always fail.> Actions: (day)autopsy
<Stoned>Cop: You can inspect another player to learn their alignment. Your results are not guaranteed to be accurate. <A stoned cop always gets neutral results.> Actions: inspect
Devil's Advocate: You can't kill at night, instead you may inspect any player and determine their alignment and role. You may kill players only during the day. Actions: inspect2 (day)kill
Shuffler: You may shuffle the setup, exchanging two random players' roles. You don't know whose roles were exchanged. Actions: shuffle
There's still TricMagic, who we never deconfirmed as a possible cultist. Last game, he almost got away due to everyone just seeing his scummy behavior as simply part of his crazy antics. Since any attempts to kill him would probably end eith the killer being turned into another cultist, we probably should lynch him today or tomorrow.TricMagic was lynched yesterday. Considering your last post, I'd think I'd prefer an RGU lynch today or tomorrow instead.
Okay, so, I'm going to keep my vote on Persus13. If scum can't kill at night, then this basically confirms that Persus was the one who killed Superdorf, and I assume he just used a daykill to get rid of Deus Asmoth, too. I'm fairly sure this means Persus is actually a serial killer. I know NQT can't be scum and KitRougard is a green goo that can't do anything regardless of what happens, so that only leaves you for the lynch.I think the fact that I claimed being responsible for Superdorf's death confirms I killed Superdorf.
The game isn't over so there's still a scum faction, Persus is more likely to be an SK than RGU, as why would RGU try to save some random if they're a role that wants to kill us? I don't think the numbers work for RGU to be mafia as that would involve too many mafia members. Tric could be a 3rd party stuck without any abilities. But they arent a night threat, whereas Persus is. Process of elmination says Persus is the best pick. But I need to check back over the claims and votes. DA almost certainly lying confuses things.Sigh. Tricmagic is dead. Get your facts straight.
That's it. Keep in mind I had already claimed yesterday (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173971.msg7976588#msg7976588). At this point of the game, I think it's obvious to everyone that you're a hostile third that we need to lynch to win.I claimed part of my role yesterday too, and NQT hasn't claimed anything. And yet I'm the hostile third, not him. So when I die, who are you goign to try to lynch instead, NQT or Kit?
RGU: Did you inspect NQT during D1 or are you going off his vote on Spin?I thought said I had a 1-shot investigation before, which is why I was reading him as town plus his vote on Maximum Spin. Thete's the possibility he might have visited someone like TricMagic during the later days and became a cultist, considering he refused to claim about what he had done during the night before.I don't have any secret abilities, other than a Mystery action I haven't used for the whole game. I could be a Commando, which would explain why didn't I die if Deus Asmoth did target me with a kill. I would proably still revive from a lynch, anyways.I don't recall being immune to night kills at all. Also, if I had been targeted with a kill, I should probably have died and revived on the spot, which didn't happen as far as I know.Do you have a Secret role at all?About NQT, at least he was town during the first day. I doubt he's scum, but it's possible he might have been converted and is now part of the black goo cult.NQT was the first to vote hector the day hector got lynched. I don't think Hector would be making such a big deal about fighting NQT's daykill claim if both were cult. You can't be cult because DA says they got your human shield, and DA can't be cult because they hit Superdorf with a Cop ability. So cult isn't a threat.
There's still TricMagic, who we never deconfirmed as a possible cultist. Last game, he almost got away due to everyone just seeing his scummy behavior as simply part of his crazy antics. Since any attempts to kill him would probably end eith the killer being turned into another cultist, we probably should lynch him today or tomorrow.
Regarding Persus, we know someone trageted Deus Asmoth with a kill and I don't think it could be anyone but him. Persus13 If the game doesn't end after the Persus lynch, then TricMagic has to be a cultist and is holding the game from ending by continuing to be alive. If Persus did target Superdorf with a kill, then he's probably immune to kills, which would explain how he survived Superdorf's Mirror ability, so I wouldn't recommend targeting him with a kill.
I mean, it was possible that he WAS town and was later converted by the black goo, but I don't think that's possible anymore since NQT claimed to have used an one-shot forensics expert on Superdorf, which you confirmed that was correct.That also doesn't matter because forensics expert is a day ability, and he'd would have had to have used it after Superdorf died.
Shakerag, when someone gets a new 'role' (through Plutonium, say), can they get a new alignment?No.
I think I've already claimed a few times but whatever.I don't have any roleblock abilities. Also why do you think your Mystery ability is commando when DA was obviously lying about Night killing you?
One-Shot Cop: Used on NQT during N1, town result.
Human Shield: Used on NQT during N2, Used on DA during N3.
Mystery: No idea, never used. Probably Commando.
Reviver: Gained during N1.
Magic Lamp.
Pimp: Gained just a few moments ago (Shakerag said he derped on the PM), used immediately: 2 roleblockers. Probably NQT and Persus, since I don't have any roleblocks unless it's my Mystery ability.
I think I've already claimed a few times but whatever.I don't have any roleblock abilities. Also why do you think your Mystery ability is commando when DA was obviously lying about Night killing you?
One-Shot Cop: Used on NQT during N1, town result.
Human Shield: Used on NQT during N2, Used on DA during N3.
Mystery: No idea, never used. Probably Commando.
Reviver: Gained during N1.
Magic Lamp.
Pimp: Gained just a few moments ago (Shakerag said he derped on the PM), used immediately: 2 roleblockers. Probably NQT and Persus, since I don't have any roleblocks unless it's my Mystery ability.
Persus, I appreciate your call to action-- but in a game with so few players with so many weird powers and hidden agendas, I don't think my normal kinds of analysis will be particularly productive.Its been working for me up the entire game, and the mechanical stuff led to us trusting Deus Asmoth and look how well that turned out. Also you've got nothing mechanical pointing to me. Its literally an assumption that there can't be a third scum and there has to be a hostile third as far as I can tell.
Selfishly perhaps, I was trying to bait serial killers or mafia into taking out Persus after I made the Buddy claim. I was hoping they'd think we were lovers. Actually it just makes me a reviver, which is what I was relying on in the end game if it came down to LYLO.Once again, why do your gambits involve me dying? Guess this bit of info leaves me more relieved that you have a better chance to win once I go though. Just kill RGU and don't let him convince you Kit is third party, and you should be able to bring it home.
I know that Kit and RGU aren't SKs. So that just leaves Persus as I don't think there could be any more mafia. The other possibility is that there's a cult. In which case, making myself unlynchable is a good step to at least force a stalemate.Actually your Kit Psychiatrist went to Tric since he mimicked Kit N1. I still think he's town though, for reasons I've stated before. My best guess about your Mystery power is its a morph or a block.
Courage the Cowardly Wolf-priest-thing
Cowardly Vigilante: You can kill other players. You can also hide once, making you immune to all actions that night. Actions: kill hide (1 use)
Townie: No description.
Shaman: You may reincarnate a dead player. That player will return from the dead and get a new role and team. You can only use this ability three times, and you cannot reincarnate the same player twice. Actions: reincarnate (3 uses)
Nurse: When the doctor dies, you become a Doctor.
Infected Werewolf: You have been transformed by the bite of a werewolf. Each night, you kill a random player. Actions: (auto)kill
green goo
You have no abilities.
Paramilitary Wizard
Human Shield: You can guard another player. If that player would be killed, you will be killed instead. Actions: guard
Evil Mastermind: You can recruit another player to be your minion. You and your minion form a team, and your minion can kill at night. You can't have more than one minion at a time. Actions: recruit
Mystery <Roleblocker>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can block another player's action each night. You are immune to roleblocks.> Actions: mystery
Tracker: You can track another player. You will be told who that player targeted, if any. Actions: track
Magic Lamp: If you die, you can give another player awesome powers.
**************gained abilities****************
Reviver: You will revive once on death.
Pimp: Once during the game, you may recieve a list of how many roleblockers are alive. Actions: (day)census (1 use)
The Spanish Inquisition
Mystery <Roleblocker>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can block another player's action each night. You are immune to roleblocks.> Actions: mystery
One-Shot Daykiller: You are a daykiller. Your ability can only be used once. Actions: (day)kill (1 use)
Mystery <Mad Scientist>: You have a night ability, but you don't know what it does. <You can mutate another player, changing their role randomly.> Actions: mystery
Missionary: You can attempt to convert a player each night. If that player is a cultist, that player will peacefully leave the town. Actions: convert
Azwolg: You will kill BUDDY1 the first night. Actions: (auto)kill (1 use)
****************gained abilities*************
Police Chief: Once during the game, you may recieve a list of how many cops are alive and what their sanities are. Actions: (day)census (1 use)
One-Shot Forensics Expert: You may perform an autopsy on a dead player, possibly giving you information about that player's killer. Your ability can only be used once. Actions: (day)autopsy (1 use)
Wow, 6 out of 12 players were scum in D1, and would have outnumbered town by D2 if kingawsume hadn't been modkilled. Multiball or not, makes you wonder if town ever even had a chance.notquitethere started as town. He was recruited.
Town at start of D1: Superdorf, TricMagic, IcyTea31, Persus13, KitRougard, notquitethere. (6)Wow, 6 out of 12 players were scum in D1, and would have outnumbered town by D2 if kingawsume hadn't been modkilled. Multiball or not, makes you wonder if town ever even had a chance.notquitethere started as town. He was recruited.
Oh, whoops. Actually kingawsume was town. He was just a death miller.Town at start of D1: Superdorf, TricMagic, IcyTea31, Persus13, KitRougard, notquitethere. (6)Wow, 6 out of 12 players were scum in D1, and would have outnumbered town by D2 if kingawsume hadn't been modkilled. Multiball or not, makes you wonder if town ever even had a chance.notquitethere started as town. He was recruited.
Scum at start of D1: Nirur Torir, hector13, Maximum Spin, kingawsume, randomgenericusername, Deus Asmoth. (6)
Town at start of D2: Superdorf, TricMagic, Persus13, KitRougard. (4)
Scum at start of D2: hector13, randomgenericusername, Deus Asmoth, notquitethere. (4)
Had kingawsume not flaked, that would have been 4/5 on D2. Not really a situation you'd expect town to be in after successfully lynching and daykilling scum and dodging a nightkill.
Oh, whoops. Actually kingawsume was town. He was just a death miller.Oh right, forgot about that and was just looking at the player list in the OP. Still, 5/4 LYLO on D2 despite both a successful lynch and a dayvig doesn't feel balanced. This argument of course ignores the multiball aspect where town can win even after losing the majority if they can point the scum factions against each other, but that is very difficult to do considering the uninformed nature of town.
Also I guess I should have asked Shakerag to clarify where the generic kill might have come from, but I'd been assuming there was a second scum team all game anyway.Yeah, the "generic kill ability" was how I handled the Evil Mastermind role. It was like … NQT didn't exactly get a new named ability, but he did have one more action he could take, so …
Shooting an outed scum player is an objectively good move on D1, I'm happy to defend that as a town play. Quite aside from anything else, it robs them of their night action.Oops, guess I was mistaken. I think I kind of brushed aside the claim that you'd done the kill for some reason. Thought it was something else. guess i should work on my scumreading lmao
Yeah, daykilling Spin was a good move by NQT, because it meant we basically got to skip D1.Claiming miller never really helps for the reason Deus Asmoth just said, so I generally prefer to try to confuse people enough (by angrily claiming a frame job) to, if not ultimately avoid the lynch, at least leave town worse off than I found it. Sometimes it actually works to get people to reconsider, though not these past two times, heh.
I'm surprised Spin didn't just start the game off by saying something along the lines of "Yeah, I'm a Miller. I would have said that in the first post of the game anyways, so it makes sense Tric inspected me as Mafia."