Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: xczxc on February 25, 2010, 12:36:51 pm
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Don't know if anyone has suggested this before (I think someone must have but It couldn't find one).
Terrifying locations should be really deadly, uber hardcore, making it nearly imposible to survive (and subsecuently more FUN). Also, Orcs should be added to the game, but they would only appear in untamed wilds or higher. Normally once you have and got set of traps and few well trained marksdwarves or champios, you are unstoppable, no goblin siege can destroy you. The orcs should be more aggresive, bigger and faster.
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Its in the works. The new combat for the new version makes it so 60 experienced dwarves would have difficulty dispatching a bronze colossus. Also animal-people will now have blowguns with poisoned darts. So yes, it will get much more difficult.
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Orcs are in a lot of mods. The game is designed to be heavily changed by simply adding, removing, and changing some fairly simple text files. Try Dig Deeper or Orc Mod, both are pretty challenging.
As for terrifying biomes, a lot of this will be changing next version. When animal-men infest the underground the dangers on the surface will need to be trivial, because that may be the only place we can take refuge in terrifying biomes. Also, try embarking next to a terrifying chasm. That'll brown your underwear real fast.
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Don't know if anyone has suggested this before (I think someone must have but It couldn't find one).
Terrifying locations should be really deadly, uber hardcore, making it nearly imposible to survive (and subsecuently more FUN). Also, Orcs should be added to the game, but they would only appear in untamed wilds or higher. Normally once you have and got set of traps and few well trained marksdwarves or champios, you are unstoppable, no goblin siege can destroy you. The orcs should be more aggresive, bigger and faster.
Give Relentless assault a shot. It provided challenge even for me.
(You can find it as one of the mods on the list in the link on my signature.)
The main game is so unfinished that adding challenge at this stage is premature.
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I know, I know, I just wanted to add the suggestion because a lot of people use the dig deeper or the orcs mod and it would be nice to implement them to the game.
But yeah, you guys are right, the game isn't even in v1 (now is really awesome, can't imagine how will it be then!).
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Once stability is achieved with a fort, it is very hard to break unless you try to yourself regardless of sieges. Definitely need more internal threats, more decay, and less invulnerable turtle strategies in general.
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Dig deeper is extremely hard for me
Right now im 8 years into a fortress and i have 16 dwarves and 4 of them are crippled for life and ive only gotten 3 caravans.
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Am I the only person who thinks Orc and Goblin are synonyms?
But yeah, I eagerly look forward to the day when sieges live up to the name, with enemies deploying ladders, bridges, siege engines and sappers. The problem right now isn't so much that siegers are weak, but that they're stupid and under-equipped.
(ps thanks for the endorsement profit!)
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But yeah, I eagerly look forward to the day when sieges live up to the name, with enemies deploying ladders, bridges, siege engines and sappers. The problem right now isn't so much that siegers are weak, but that they're stupid and under-equipped.
(ps thanks for the endorsement profit!)
Sieges should be like that! It would be nice too, to see the goblins make a camp and start attacking you. Btw, we should have a gate.
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Am I the only person who thinks Orc and Goblin are synonyms?
Pretty much.
"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."
Only known synonym I know of.
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Pretty much.
"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."
Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place! :D
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Pretty much.
"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."
Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place! :D
No, no he wasn't.
Both Goblins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblin) and Orcs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc) go back a long way.
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I would say that seiges need some way to destroy constructions. whether it's goblins bringing trolls(I'd rather like to know how he gets through stone walls though) with a few new tags, or having them build catapults to destroy constructions once they actually decide to seige you instead of trying a direct assault ending with blood and death of the assaultees.
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(ps thanks for the endorsement profit!)
LOL Most welcome =p It may slow down my fort when 80 Treents attack at once.. but damn... What a rush to see my ultra champion hammer dwarves send them flying a full 3 embark tiles!
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Back on track - I like the idea of making sieges much harder, just not early in the game.
A lot of people are still going to be brand new, or still learning the game. There's no way they'd be able to handle a siege where 40 goblins show up and start building siege towers and catapults. They'd be destroyed outright. And while some people may point to this being Fun, you can't deny that the idea of a "doomsday clock" to the next siege would put off a lot of newbies - even experienced players would get frustrated.
I like how it starts now, with one or two squads showing up at a time. An early fortress can usually handle this if they're defense-minded at all. After three or four years, though, when the average player had had adequate time to set up defenses and really hammer out a competent military, you'd see larger and larger invading forces. By year eight or ten it's strange to see less than 40-50 gobbos in a siege - maybe they even start bringing trained monsters to fight for them, and building siege equipment using your map's (or shipped in) resources that you could recover if you beat them.
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I would prefer some way to change the siege size and frequency in the config (besides just turning them off), so if you want small frequent sieges you could have that or large frequent sieges. it would only effect people who change the settings, so it wouldn't put off new players and better players would be happy.
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Honestly, sieges and combat need to be overhauled significantly before they'll provide any half decent player with a challenge. Currently they don't do anything but show up in large numbers and try to bumrush the nearest fort entrance.
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Once stability is achieved with a fort, it is very hard to break unless you try to yourself regardless of sieges. Definitely need more internal threats, more decay, and less invulnerable turtle strategies in general.
One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand. Because once you have this handled, you can come up with cool ways of breaking things that the player makes, like earthquakes and perhaps some added megabeast/siege equipment behavior where they could create mini-quakes or actively seek out structurally weak areas in addition to maiming dwarves.
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Back on track - I like the idea of making sieges much harder, just not early in the game.
A lot of people are still going to be brand new, or still learning the game. There's no way they'd be able to handle a siege where 40 goblins show up and start building siege towers and catapults. They'd be destroyed outright. And while some people may point to this being Fun, you can't deny that the idea of a "doomsday clock" to the next siege would put off a lot of newbies - even experienced players would get frustrated.
I like how it starts now, with one or two squads showing up at a time. An early fortress can usually handle this if they're defense-minded at all. After three or four years, though, when the average player had had adequate time to set up defenses and really hammer out a competent military, you'd see larger and larger invading forces. By year eight or ten it's strange to see less than 40-50 gobbos in a siege - maybe they even start bringing trained monsters to fight for them, and building siege equipment using your map's (or shipped in) resources that you could recover if you beat them.
Ideally the deadline of powerful sieges out for your blood would be balanced against better diplomacy as well. Humans and elves don't go to war with you by choice, and perhaps in the future neither would goblins. There might remain some incentives, such as thieves and the occasional raid for booty and slaves/converts. The beginner would simply play in a conciliatory way until he deemed himself ready to face the relentless hordes.
Besides, invasions can be turned off in the init. One might recommend this to newbies, or provide a newbie version with appropriate init options (and a graphics pack).
Pretty much.
"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."
Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place! :D
No, no he wasn't.
Both Goblins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblin) and Orcs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc) go back a long way.
Actually, according to the article the term "orc" was a general word with connection to foreigners or demons (and here really only because Tolkien liked the sound of it); in its modern sense, "orc" might as well have originally meant the same as goblin.
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One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand.
But how exactly would that work? What information would be displayed?
Compression, tensile, and shear strength of all used blocks?
Just displaying the information is useless to all but maybe 1 in 1000 players.
Granted, if increasing difficulty is the only goal, that could certainly be achieved that way. =)
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One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand.
But how exactly would that work? What information would be displayed?
Compression, tensile, and shear strength of all used blocks?
Just displaying the information is useless to all but maybe 1 in 1000 players.
Granted, if increasing difficulty is the only goal, that could certainly be achieved that way. =)
Display and mechanics are debatable, but improved cave-ins are almost undoubtably in the pipeline.
Personally, I'd be satisfied with something as simple as the old "no 7-by-7 rooms" rule, but knowing Toady we'll probably see unique material strengths, domes and arches, etc etc. You'll need a crash course in structural engineering just to build above ground and it will be awesome.
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Pretty much.
"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."
Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place! :D
No, no he wasn't.
Both Goblins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblin) and Orcs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc) go back a long way.
From that source: "The modern use of the English word "orc" to denote a race of evil, humanoid creatures begins with J. R. R. Tolkien."
The word "orc" is old. The specific context, however, is new. nil is more-or-less correct that Tolkein made them up in the first place (or at least formalized and popularized vaguer and more obscure concepts).
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Improved difficulty?
All creatures have phasing.
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Improved difficulty?
All creatures have phasing.
He's done it again, ladies and gentlemen! with one fell swing of his logic sword, eerr has solved our every problem.
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I would prefer some way to change the siege size and frequency in the config (besides just turning them off), so if you want small frequent sieges you could have that or large frequent sieges. it would only effect people who change the settings, so it wouldn't put off new players and better players would be happy.
I think the location should do what you are saying, a calm location won't have may invasions or sieges, wilderness should be like now and more difficult location should have harder enemies.
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Difficulty is very important, easy games get boring quick.
- I'm looking forward to sieges being overhauled, currently they are crap.
- I hope creature migration will be more vibrant, and less obviously scripted in a future release.
- I very much am looking forward to job tools being insanely complicated as appose to non-existent.
On the other hand I'd rather not have to micromanage things like foodstocks and animal husbandry, after I have system established.
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dwarf fortress has a hilarious learning curve
when you first start playing it is almost farcically difficult to do anything at all, but as soon as you get past this and figure out how it works it becomes far too easy and predictable?