[color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
Sincere thanks for the Linux 64-bit version. Have you considered taking a poll to see just how important 32-bit Linux versions are?32 bit is much easier to get rid of for linux.
Toady, my dwarves keep getting stuck in trees! By the time I find some of them it's generally too late.You can do this yourself, the way starts with "m" and rhymes with "quagma" and starts fires.
I'm convinced this is a vile scheme from the elves to eliminate the entire dwarven race, that must be why they're so defensive of their trees. This makes me paranoid of having trees nearby, any chance this'll be fixed soon? :)
Do you have plans to add/increase any features that were limited by technology, once computers get more powerful?Isn't max sites per civ a worldgen option?
For example I think you set the max number of sites per civ under such considerations.
Do you think after 10 years when computers are significantly stronger you will start increasing the fidelity/scale of things that you had to limit due to today's technology?
Everyone's shocked that the old FotF thread is full, and here I am still dealing with the earth-shattering revelation that Toady One hasn't read Guards Guards.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mr. One, if you fail to read Guards Guards, you are doing yourself a disservice. If you aren't careful, you may find a number of forumites staging an intervention.
The title of your reddit post has 2016... does it build it from the rss pubDate instead of the (wrong) title? Maybe it will have to get another skill rating boost.
Can we have giant desert scorpions before they go as extinct as curious underground structures? ;w;
I mean... it is a raw object. I know "mod it in" is usually unsatisfactory, but here it's trivial. 0.42.04 was the last version to have them, and I'm not sure if the creature raws have changed any since then.
C'mon, RD. You've posted about it multiple times and put up a suggestion thread. Everyone has a pet bug or feature they'd wish Toady would drop everything for but the trick is not to nag about it.But most bugs tend to be complex to fix.
It's not a bug. It's a missing feature. Which, yes, was there originally which is why Mr Dragon is upset, but..er...think of it as if it were the DF economy. That was there once, and now isn't. But we all know it'll be back one day having evolved into a magnificent butterfly. So just leave it be and one day the desert will be full of butterflies again (with pincers and stinging tails...).C'mon, RD. You've posted about it multiple times and put up a suggestion thread. Everyone has a pet bug or feature they'd wish Toady would drop everything for but the trick is not to nag about it.But most bugs tend to be complex to fix.
I'd wager most bugs are unknown to fix.C'mon, RD. You've posted about it multiple times and put up a suggestion thread. Everyone has a pet bug or feature they'd wish Toady would drop everything for but the trick is not to nag about it.But most bugs tend to be complex to fix.
Now how about them Gorlak adventurers and their lack of door opening skill?
I'd wager most bugs are unknown to fix.C'mon, RD. You've posted about it multiple times and put up a suggestion thread. Everyone has a pet bug or feature they'd wish Toady would drop everything for but the trick is not to nag about it.But most bugs tend to be complex to fix.
But how do you MAKE dwarves start wars more often? Because usually I reserve the term trivial for things that are easily fixed. :V
Meanwhile...welp. Adventurecraft now has gorlaks that understand The Mysteries of The Doorknob.
C'mon, RD. You've posted about it multiple times and put up a suggestion thread. Everyone has a pet bug or feature they'd wish Toady would drop everything for but the trick is not to nag about it.
This thread will now be a dozen pages of bitching about my bitching. :VDon't forget you bitching about people bitching about your bitching. And I suppose this counts as me bitching about you bitching about people bitching about you bitching...
Can I shamelessly plug having fixed both giant desert scorpions and gorlaks in my main mod, instead? o3oOnly if it is in fact shameless. I believe you are :)
You mentioned that some artifacts might only be destroyed in specific ways. Are there any plans for artifacts (both mundane and magical) to leave behind a broken version of themselves so that they can sometimes be repaired or used to make a new artifact. Additionally, are artifacts planned to be able to break without either a very specific trigger or wear?Breaking artifacts and repairing them was covered in that same reply...
You mentioned that some artifacts might only be destroyed in specific ways. Are there any plans for artifacts (both mundane and magical) to leave behind a broken version of themselves so that they can sometimes be repaired or used to make a new artifact. Additionally, are artifacts planned to be able to break without either a very specific trigger or wear?Breaking artifacts and repairing them was covered in that same reply...
Quote
Quote from: Thundercraft
As part of adding armor item damage, are there any plans to allow dwarves or other crafts-persons the ability to repair damaged armor? Or will players be forced to either obtain or make new armor and either sell or smelt badly damaged armor?
Quote from: stinkasectomy
with the new system of weapon and armour damage, do you intend to implement a way or repairing damage? if repairing is implemented, will it require more resources (some more bronze to repair a damaged bronze item etc). does (should?) the damage apply to artifacts? i like the idea of repairing any of my military's named items, even if they aren't artifacts.
We'd like to let them fix the items, but we didn't get to that and I'm not sure what's going to happen. It might be that materials will be required for repair if you want the item to not degrade in some way, but I'm not sure what it should depend on or how far it should go. Material use might be too much, especially for items that take just one resource item to make in the first place. Artifacts aren't currently damage-able, but that might change once artifacts become more numerous and some are more important/magical than others.
Quote from: stinkasectomy
will we see swords breaking into two separate pieces (blade/hilt etc), or gauntlets lose a finger, or chain mail lose some links? lots of fantasy about reforging broken swords, after all. items losing pieces would likely cause item bloat in many cases, and a pretty major rework even if it didnt bloat (so not any time soon i guess).
We've been hoping to have item components for a long while, but it hasn't happened yet. Yeah, it's an important part of a lot of stories, enough so that it would be worth it to figure out the various issues. As long as it isn't overzealous about blowing items into pieces all the time, the bloat shouldn't be an issue. It would be kind of annoying to have an indoor battlefield littered with all sorts of shards and shreds to clean up beyond what we already have.
I read that and, no joke, went "wait, aren't there swamp dragons in DF?", then was absolutely amazed to find there weren't.
Quote from: WhatsifsowhatsitWhat would "bleak and horrifying" entail? Would this include some of the things that have traditionally been avoided in Dwarf Fortress for various reasons, such as sex and (lack of) consent and whatnot? (There were, I think, some other similar things that I don't remember off the top of my head.)
Oh, and at the other side of the spectrum, is "No death [...]" to be taken literally? Will there be no death at all in this setting (and what would that mean for the demographics and such of the worlds)? Or just no death due to fights and wars and the like?
Nah, we weren't thinking of going that way.
Yeah, no death at all. Use of the attack button in adventure mode removed, etc. We were thinking of intermediate setting(s) where wars and attacks against intelligent critters would be off, but e.g. hunting and butchery would be permitted, so you could still do the ranch-fort thing without worrying about wars or extortion or whatever.
The destruction of the previous thread gave me a thought.
what about worldgen disasters? Mundane stuff, maybe, such as volcanic eruptions, earthquakes
PTW
There is a Notify button you can use, folksIt doesn't do the same thing at all, though.
There is a Notify button you can use, folksIt doesn't do the same thing at all, though.
Notify button sends you an email when somebody replies.
Posting to watch makes the thread show up in your new replies list.
Will we ever get multi-tile creatures? It is a bit weird that dragon takes one tile like a bee does. And with ships, a leviathan that attacks it needs to have its multi-tile tentacles to destroy it.They talked bout it in the dwarfmoot video. Bottom line, it's really hard to get it to look good.
Will we ever get multi-tile creatures? It is a bit weird that dragon takes one tile like a bee does. And with ships, a leviathan that attacks it needs to have its multi-tile tentacles to destroy it.They talked bout it in the dwarfmoot video. Bottom line, it's really hard to get it to look good.
it's doable, but bizarre, like, if you make a 1x1 tunnel can that keep giants out?That sounds like an intended consequence, though, right? If you duck into a little hole, a huge monster shouldn't be able to follow you...
Also it would probably look like hell for graphics-users. :P
Why is it disappointing that Toady wants to introduce extreme options for absolutely no violence? You can just select a different setting. I think it'd be somewhat interesting to try and could help people get into the game by allowing the option to eliminate some dangers.Quote from: Toady OneQuote from: WhatsifsowhatsitWhat would "bleak and horrifying" entail? Would this include some of the things that have traditionally been avoided in Dwarf Fortress for various reasons, such as sex and (lack of) consent and whatnot? (There were, I think, some other similar things that I don't remember off the top of my head.)
Oh, and at the other side of the spectrum, is "No death [...]" to be taken literally? Will there be no death at all in this setting (and what would that mean for the demographics and such of the worlds)? Or just no death due to fights and wars and the like?
Nah, we weren't thinking of going that way.
Yeah, no death at all. Use of the attack button in adventure mode removed, etc. We were thinking of intermediate setting(s) where wars and attacks against intelligent critters would be off, but e.g. hunting and butchery would be permitted, so you could still do the ranch-fort thing without worrying about wars or extortion or whatever.
Slightly disappointing, but not a surprise. Perhaps eventually I will have to move away from vanilla after all (for some play sessions at least). I'm still curious, however, about the following aspect of my earlier question: How would world demographics/population dynamics work in a setting where there is no death at all (of intelligent races)?
Also, the dev page said there would be a spectrum from "No death or violence to regular settings to bleak and horrifying", but as you described it in your answer to my previous question, it sounds like you consider the regular settings to already be the bleak and horrifying end of the spectrum. Is that indeed the case, or did you just not go into the other side of things? If it's the latter, could you elaborate on what would be different on that side of the spectrum relative to the regular settings as we know them now? Perhaps just quantitatively more violence by changing some numbers around? Or would it be a qualitative difference somehow?
Also it would probably look like hell for graphics-users. :P
If we had more graphics options, it would probably be LESS of a clusterfuck if a creature had multi-tile sprites as an option. Just add a sprite large enough to cover the expected area. Though ideally, if multi-tile creatures wind up needing different sizes for younger/smaller versions, we'd ALSO need an also to change sprite based on size and/or age. Whereas I think babies/children MIGHT be an option, but only via unit type being a spriting option.
While that sounds complex, in contrast I have no clue how we're going to depict this is default mode, unless we further overused different-colored wagon tiles. :V
Why is it disappointing that Toady wants to introduce extreme options for absolutely no violence? You can just select a different setting. I think it'd be somewhat interesting to try and could help people get into the game by allowing the option to eliminate some dangers.
I disagree with some concepts of multi tile creatures in being able to hide in 1x1 passageways where it cannot pass, its a very dwarfy thing to do but its also cheese to the max and not fun.
Also it would probably look like hell for graphics-users. :PThat boat is going to sail with or without mutli-tile creatures. See how the graphics sets for Cataclysm DDA struggle with the vehicles to see what I mean, though it's admittedly trickier there as they have full rotation.
The current geology layering would pretty easily support having a biome whose ground is made out of mineable "cosmic egg shell", I think. It would make a nice home for your dwarves.
Depends on the monster, I guess. If a mouse ducks into hole, I'm more likely to seal the hole up rather than demolish a wall; however a hunting dog would dig in and outside I might attempt to induce a cave-in.it's doable, but bizarre, like, if you make a 1x1 tunnel can that keep giants out?That sounds like an intended consequence, though, right? If you duck into a little hole, a huge monster shouldn't be able to follow you...
I think you'd need to introduce this alongside destructable terrain, though. If you ducked into a little hole, a huge monster would probably try to make it bigger.
And I suppose the flip side would have to be that digging 1x1 tunnels would also prevent the passage of certain things you want into your fortress. Kinda like wagons, but more generalized. Not sure what those would be though.
I've started several fortresses in the past with aquifers, purposefully, trying to tame them conventionally, and found it nearly impossible to do so when faced with multilevel ones. Amount of cancelled jobs even when kept trivial water levels by a dozen of pumps was tiresome, deadly work accidents, etc.
Are there any plans to revamp handling of aquifers?
Also possibility to make somemandwarf made floors collect water same way how "murky pool" works. (when you don't want to use aquifers and have no rivers nor natural pools around)
And is there any mod that makes that last thing possible, meanwhile?
Thank you.
If you are just looking to add some water to an otherwise barren map, your best bet might be some dwarfhack program. The last one I used was 5 years ago, but it let me add either magma or water to a tile. I imagine that more recent forays can still do that.
Thanks for all the great work, Tarn!
I'm curious to know whether there are any plans to create a "race survival" option in fortress mode. What I mean by that: right now you can only select fortress mode if a dwarven civ is still around. It would be great to have the option to play as the last hope of dwarven kind after all other dwarves were wiped out by world generation. I think it would make for great stories!
In a similar vein, it would be great to (at some point in the future) be able to choose the number of starting dwarves. Any plans for that?
I'm curious to know whether there are any plans to create a "race survival" option in fortress mode. What I mean by that: right now you can only select fortress mode if a dwarven civ is still around. It would be great to have the option to play as the last hope of dwarven kind after all other dwarves were wiped out by world generation. I think it would make for great stories!
In a similar vein, it would be great to (at some point in the future) be able to choose the number of starting dwarves. Any plans for that?
Unfortunately, burned is misinformed. The message is the same both for a truly dead civ and for a "struggling" one. A struggling civ provides a caravan and a liaison, and you're likely to be saddled with an emergency monarch selection early on. You'll also get an unlimited number of migrant waves.
Pay attention to the part about the message saying dead or DYING. That's the part you got wrong.
Are you seriously just gonna shitpost about my earlier complaining from now on? -_-
This thread will now be a dozen pages of bitching about my bitching. :V
I rest my -well crafted- case.
Pay attention to the part about the message saying dead or DYING. That's the part you got wrong.
Are you seriously just gonna shitpost about my earlier complaining from now on? -_-
The idea that the parent civ might not be DEAD does carry different implications compared to a fully extinct one though . . .
@burned: The way I read your post was that the message implied you had a dead civ, and for the last year or so it has been a common mistake to fail to realize there is a significant game play difference between dead and dying, with a number of people quite insistently claim civs that exhibit the dying traits are in fact dead based on the (logical but incorrect) conclusion that since no dwarf had existed for the last 1000 years and the civ haven't had any non dwarven members either, the civ must be dead as a door nail. I didn't want Afghani84 to get the impression that the message meant a civ was truly dead, as it's actually only a rather weak indication it could be, if you're (un)lucky.
And unless you embark in your generated world you don't know if the dwarven civ is dead or struggling, as logic doesn't apply to civ survival.
TL;DR : with future mods and a ability to load fire snake extract directly into a weapon
(http://puu.sh/pTGig/f8c0025e46.png)
(http://puu.sh/pTGmN/f8b9415144.png)
(http://puu.sh/pTGBb/126633d342.png)
(https://media.riffsy.com/images/21499df3d3117f4092de4fdf39a275a6/raw)
Excuse my logic but "every dwarf is dead = civ dead", at least in my book. I'm aware that DF logic might absolutely disagree with me here...Maybe the community's parlance for this may not be most intuitive for what you'd expect "dead" or "dying" to mean from the perspective of IRL, but given the message has been there for years it is natural to use it's distinctive words when distinguishing between a civ that gets early monarch and 3+ migrant waves and one who is limited to just two waves.
Excuse my logic but "every dwarf is dead = civ dead", at least in my book. I'm aware that DF logic might absolutely disagree with me here...Maybe the community's parlance for this may not be most intuitive for what you'd expect "dead" or "dying" to mean from the perspective of IRL, but given the message has been there for years it is natural to use it's distinctive words when distinguishing between a civ that gets early monarch and 3+ migrant waves and one who is limited to just two waves.
I'm not sure what it takes to kill a dwarf civilization, tbh.
Hey Toady, I know you've probably gotten this question a thousand times, but...The connection between artifacts and adventurer mounts seems incredibly tenuous. Regardless Toady has planned to add them for a long time, and so the answer unless it turns out Toady has decided that artifacts and adventurer mounts need to be added at the same time is going to be "Sounds good, no timeline." None of the current development plan really leads into mounts. That would be more when adventurer mode economy or something is being improved.
> With the coming focus on artifacts/myth, which seems like it'll really improve the immersiveness and interactivity of the world both in adventure mode and fort mode, do you think there may be any thought given to implementing mounts in both adventure and fort mode? Siegers have been able to ride beasts for quite some time, so why not allow our dwarves/intrepid explorers to do the same? I suppose the feature just hasn't ever really been important enough to dedicate a lot of thought to or spend much time on, but with the world suddenly increasing in depth and complexity by leaps and bounds, this seems like an addition that would be pretty beneficial to immersion and !!fun!!.
Hey Toady, I know you've probably gotten this question a thousand times, but...The connection between artifacts and adventurer mounts seems incredibly tenuous. Regardless Toady has planned to add them for a long time, and so the answer unless it turns out Toady has decided that artifacts and adventurer mounts need to be added at the same time is going to be "Sounds good, no timeline." None of the current development plan really leads into mounts. That would be more when adventurer mode economy or something is being improved.
> With the coming focus on artifacts/myth, which seems like it'll really improve the immersiveness and interactivity of the world both in adventure mode and fort mode, do you think there may be any thought given to implementing mounts in both adventure and fort mode? Siegers have been able to ride beasts for quite some time, so why not allow our dwarves/intrepid explorers to do the same? I suppose the feature just hasn't ever really been important enough to dedicate a lot of thought to or spend much time on, but with the world suddenly increasing in depth and complexity by leaps and bounds, this seems like an addition that would be pretty beneficial to immersion and !!fun!!.
It's 2018, Toady got the artifacts and myth stuff out quickly, and whipped out a surprise economy update for early scenario groundwork.
In the process he did two other things, he resolved the adventurer/npc mount generation issues, and accidentally resurrected a bug from 42.01.
Every citizen, in every site, regardless of age, position, or tasks, can be found constantly astride a horse.
In sites where there are not enough citizens, horses can be found riding other horses in stacks a hundred high.
The DF Horse Bug Part 2: The Horsening.
Oh won't you be my neigh-eigh-eigh-bor?
Bugs from Normal Games: "The game stutters for six seconds before crashing."Yeah, 42.01 was very amusing in that way.
Bugs from Broken Games: "The lighting is weird and the characters have no faces."
Bugs from Dwarf Fortress: "The horses outnumber us. I have seen settlements with a thousand horses to a man. I have seen them in the deepest caverns. They are everywhere. Save us."
I still love the legends of dwarves wearing an ikea catalog full of furniture as armor, wandering around the farms, planting beds in rows.QuoteBugs from Normal Games: "The game stutters for six seconds before crashing."Yeah, 42.01 was very amusing in that way.
Bugs from Broken Games: "The lighting is weird and the characters have no faces."
Bugs from Dwarf Fortress: "The horses outnumber us. I have seen settlements with a thousand horses to a man. I have seen them in the deepest caverns. They are everywhere. Save us."
What compiler do you use for compiling the new versions of Dwarf Fortress? Did you upgrade the mac and linux compilers for the 64-bit version as well? Do you use -O3 on the mac and linux compilers to provide optimizations to the software?A lot of this was covered in the 43.04 and 43.05 release threads, I think.
[STRANGE_MOODS] is a tag now, in the current "mythicality" setting of vanilla one might assume that'll just be a dorf thing, while a world with fully randomly generated creatures may have many, and he might add it to other races with different conditions to get them produced more often during world-gen anyways.Is that a creature tag or an entity tag?
Creature. So only dwarves get it, and the civilization they live in is irrelevant to it. Same for the reverse, humans in a dwarf civilization don't get moods. I'm pretty sure it's actually the whole reason the token was added. Because now humans can end up in your fortress, Toady specifically wanted only dwarves to be getting strange moods.[STRANGE_MOODS] is a tag now, in the current "mythicality" setting of vanilla one might assume that'll just be a dorf thing, while a world with fully randomly generated creatures may have many, and he might add it to other races with different conditions to get them produced more often during world-gen anyways.Is that a creature tag or an entity tag?
Well that's good. It's already clear from the devblog that non-dwarf civs won't be producing artifacts from strange moods. Was wondering how the rest of the world is going to fit into the artifacts release.Creature. So only dwarves get it, and the civilization they live in is irrelevant to it. Same for the reverse, humans in a dwarf civilization don't get moods. I'm pretty sure it's actually the whole reason the token was added. Because now humans can end up in your fortress, Toady specifically wanted only dwarves to be getting strange moods.[STRANGE_MOODS] is a tag now, in the current "mythicality" setting of vanilla one might assume that'll just be a dorf thing, while a world with fully randomly generated creatures may have many, and he might add it to other races with different conditions to get them produced more often during world-gen anyways.Is that a creature tag or an entity tag?
Currently adventurers can use any item as a weapon, including weapons that are supposedly too big for them like an elf using a great axe, or even more extreme, and elf using a great axe in one hand. Which should require size 77500. Is there any penalty to this? Is it intentional? If there isn't a penalty, then do you plan to do anything about it, such as make adventurers unable to attack with such weapons, or to introduce a penalty? Similarly is there any penalty to holding multiple items in one hand? There used to be a really powerful trick where you just hold as many shields as you can get your hands on and then block any attack easily. I think I heard something about that being fixed, but I don't actually know how.
Well that's good. It's already clear from the devblog that non-dwarf civs won't be producing artifacts from strange moods. Was wondering how the rest of the world is going to fit into the artifacts release.Creature. So only dwarves get it, and the civilization they live in is irrelevant to it. Same for the reverse, humans in a dwarf civilization don't get moods. I'm pretty sure it's actually the whole reason the token was added. Because now humans can end up in your fortress, Toady specifically wanted only dwarves to be getting strange moods.[STRANGE_MOODS] is a tag now, in the current "mythicality" setting of vanilla one might assume that'll just be a dorf thing, while a world with fully randomly generated creatures may have many, and he might add it to other races with different conditions to get them produced more often during world-gen anyways.Is that a creature tag or an entity tag?
Yes, there is a penalty and it is intentional, for all of that.
Can historical figures fail their mood during worldgen ?Oh, that would be fun!
- Where can I find Urist McBone Carver?Can historical figures fail their mood during worldgen ?Oh, that would be fun!
- Any troubles?
- Well, Urist McBone Carver went completely insane the other day. He should be right around here...
- Where can I find Urist McBone Carver?Can historical figures fail their mood during worldgen ?Oh, that would be fun!
- Any troubles?
- Well, Urist McBone Carver went completely insane the other day. He should be right around here...
- Urist McBone Carver is behind you.
Urist McBone carver strikes you in the head from behind with the iron carving knife, tearing the brain's tissue.
You have been struck down. You are deceased.
How would you be sure that wasn't a fell mood?The shitty twist is that we were Urist McBone Carver all along. Urist McAdventurer has been dead for years.
LEGENDS
> The rumour Urist McBone Carver was insane spread inside Rockfell to a point of hysteria
> Urist McBone Carver in a fell mood struck down the Urist Adventurer
> Urist McBone Carver crafted "Uhilo" a bone cup detailing the adventurers lusterous career out of Urist Adventurer's corpse, it is embedded with the adventurers teeth depiction detailing how he stole a cheese roll from MussleTowers, it has jagged spikes of Adventurers skin.
> Urist McBone Carver is struck down by palace guards
How would you be sure that wasn't a fell mood?The shitty twist is that we were Urist McBone Carver all along. Urist McAdventurer has been dead for years.
LEGENDS
> The rumour Urist McBone Carver was insane spread inside Rockfell to a point of hysteria
> Urist McBone Carver in a fell mood struck down the Urist Adventurer
> Urist McBone Carver crafted "Uhilo" a bone cup detailing the adventurers lusterous career out of Urist Adventurer's corpse, it is embedded with the adventurers teeth depiction detailing how he stole a cheese roll from MussleTowers, it has jagged spikes of Adventurers skin.
> Urist McBone Carver is struck down by palace guards
-Will there be artifact instruments? Something like the Ocarina of Time from Zelda, for example.
-Will bookkeepers use sheets/scrolls/books for recordkeeping in the distant, obscure future?
Part Question, Part suggestion. If you to improve this, try making a new suggestion thread for it.
so, Toady, Why did you make dragonfire deadlier? It makes it less fun, because you used to have a few turns while bleeding to death to fight the dragon. now if you get hit by the dragonfire, you instantly evaporate. This is neither fun nor !!FUN!!. could you please make it so the dragonfire is as hot as it used to be, but also affects hit shields. It's ridiculous that wooden shields still block dragonfire. nether-cap shields should be made useful for fighting a dragon, as it itself will cool you off.
But wouldn't adamantium be able to still block it? and if Dragon fire is un-buffed, then iron and steel can still block it(although in real life, steel armor + heat = more heat).Part Question, Part suggestion. If you to improve this, try making a new suggestion thread for it.
so, Toady, Why did you make dragonfire deadlier? It makes it less fun, because you used to have a few turns while bleeding to death to fight the dragon. now if you get hit by the dragonfire, you instantly evaporate. This is neither fun nor !!FUN!!. could you please make it so the dragonfire is as hot as it used to be, but also affects hit shields. It's ridiculous that wooden shields still block dragonfire. nether-cap shields should be made useful for fighting a dragon, as it itself will cool you off.
Wouldn't having the dragonfire not make creatures go poof, while also effecting shields that block it like other items (which basically went poof by themselves even before the change), be just as bad as going poof in the first place? As anything but a fixed-temp shield would just melt/evaporate in your hand and mean death.
I understand having dragonfire blockable by wooden shields is kinda wonky, but dragons would just = death without some way of countering the breath attack. At least for the moment, before the artifact/magic stuff is fleshed out and all that.
Everyone's shocked that the old FotF thread is full, and here I am still dealing with the earth-shattering revelation that Toady One hasn't read Guards Guards.Tr la la la- OMYGOSHHAVEYOUNOTREADGUARDSGUARDS?
Mr. One, if you fail to read Guards Guards, you are doing yourself a disservice. If you aren't careful, you may find a number of forumites staging an intervention.
He's looking to have it produce generated civs from scratch at high enough settings, with nothing we might recognize necessarily even showing up.
I suspect the broad categories that make up the list are immutable but that suggestions can be added to categories they match without bothering version numbers. So for instance Toady's finishes the "Economy" and then alters the version number but then someone comes up with a good suggestion that fits within "Economy". He can just add it in if he likes at any time without changing the version number. If it's a suggestion that's beyond the scope of the current vision the brothers have decided constitute version 1.0 they can leave it for the mythical DF2.
Actually dragonfire is hot enough to boil adamantine.But wouldn't adamantium be able to still block it? and if Dragon fire is un-buffed, then iron and steel can still block it(although in real life, steel armor + heat = more heat).Part Question, Part suggestion. If you to improve this, try making a new suggestion thread for it.
so, Toady, Why did you make dragonfire deadlier? It makes it less fun, because you used to have a few turns while bleeding to death to fight the dragon. now if you get hit by the dragonfire, you instantly evaporate. This is neither fun nor !!FUN!!. could you please make it so the dragonfire is as hot as it used to be, but also affects hit shields. It's ridiculous that wooden shields still block dragonfire. nether-cap shields should be made useful for fighting a dragon, as it itself will cool you off.
Wouldn't having the dragonfire not make creatures go poof, while also effecting shields that block it like other items (which basically went poof by themselves even before the change), be just as bad as going poof in the first place? As anything but a fixed-temp shield would just melt/evaporate in your hand and mean death.
I understand having dragonfire blockable by wooden shields is kinda wonky, but dragons would just = death without some way of countering the breath attack. At least for the moment, before the artifact/magic stuff is fleshed out and all that.
Not to mention Nether-cap would be great, as it would make you cooler as well, so the dragonfire has less of an effect. If a deep-elf were wearing full Nether-cap armor, but no shield, wouldn't he be invincible(from heat, as least)?
You do not want Carrot Ironfoundersson as your Hammerer.Everyone's shocked that the old FotF thread is full, and here I am still dealing with the earth-shattering revelation that Toady One hasn't read Guards Guards.Tr la la la- OMYGOSHHAVEYOUNOTREADGUARDSGUARDS?
Mr. One, if you fail to read Guards Guards, you are doing yourself a disservice. If you aren't careful, you may find a number of forumites staging an intervention.
Part Question, Part suggestion. If you to improve this, try making a new suggestion thread for it.
so, Toady, Why did you make dragonfire deadlier? It makes it less fun, because you used to have a few turns while bleeding to death to fight the dragon. now if you get hit by the dragonfire, you instantly evaporate. This is neither fun nor !!FUN!!. could you please make it so the dragonfire is as hot as it used to be, but also affects hit shields. It's ridiculous that wooden shields still block dragonfire. nether-cap shields should be made useful for fighting a dragon, as it itself will cool you off.
-Will there be artifact instruments? Something like the Ocarina of Time from Zelda, for example.
That's interesting. Looking at raws, they do have [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER], but normal body temperature.
Well of course he wouldn't be hammerer, he'd be [lots of spoilers:King].
That's interesting. Looking at raws, they do have [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER], but normal body temperature.
Toady hasn't read any of them though :xWell of course he wouldn't be hammerer, he'd be [lots of spoilers:King].
That sort of comes up in every book he's in, but I guess that's a spoiler? Kinda weird, come to it.
READ MORE DISCWORLD
He's looking to have it produce generated civs from scratch at high enough settings, with nothing we might recognize necessarily even showing up.Thanks. But that's not what my question was about.
Hey i was wondering if DF is going to be comptaible with windows 32 bit systems?
Thanks :)
Hey i was wondering if DF is going to be comptaible with windows 32 bit systems?
Thanks :)
Hey i was wondering if DF is going to be comptaible with windows 32 bit systems?
Thanks :)
-Will there be artifact instruments? Something like the Ocarina of Time from Zelda, for example.
Speaking of this, will artforms be able to have artifact/magical properties?
I'm thinking of someone going into a mood and coming out with a song/dance/poem that causes weird things to happen to people who perform or witness it, or maybe certain wizards using songs or poems in their spells.
I guess I should have expanded, if a system can insert Kleer'G tree people and Mahunis town builders into working civs then I would expect it to be possible for a setting a bit more mythical than vanilla but not full blown crazylegendland to have things like a clan of giants that affiliated itself with the dwarves to help stem the onslaught of a goblin civ that had ethics which kept them from killing each other and led to a mutual defense alliance with the humans, producing an unstoppable olive drab horde sweeping settlement after settlement, not even the high elf army with their squadron of War Rocs were able to keep them at bay long, perhaps had they not been so haughty regarding the insistence of dwarves on having charcoal for steel production, they might have been able to help quell the onslaught before it conquered half the world.He's looking to have it produce generated civs from scratch at high enough settings, with nothing we might recognize necessarily even showing up.Thanks. But that's not what my question was about.
Until then, that's two weeks for us to engage in wild mass guessing. o3oDon't worry, there will be more things to guess wildly about by then!
Actually dragonfire is hot enough to boil adamantine.
Realistically dragonfire is hot enough to start nuclear fusion and would probably turn the planet into a tiny star. At least until it ran out of fuel because there's not nearly enough easily fusable materials on Earth or an Earth-like planet to support being a star for very long. Toady went really overboard on the mythical materials. Adamantine pretty much breaking the laws of physics with how rigid and sharp it is, slade being denser than the core of the sun, and dragonfire being hotter than the surface of the sun (though not the core of the sun that's still far hotter).
So, if you combined a dragon with a magma forge AND a compost heap, would we get a dwarven fusion reactor? o3oNo, you'd at least have to add a cave-in to compress matter sufficiently to induce fusion ;)
Question copied over from another thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159061).I very much doubt it if we don't get multithreading. Improving technology has been focusing on parallelism, DF has not.
Is there any chance that some of the abstraction that has to be in due to memory/processor constraints and whatnot will be taken out in the future due to improving technology? An example would be how currently, only some fraction of the creatures in the world can be a historical figure that is tracked in any level of detail, because it would be too much to do this for all of them. Similarly, not all items are tracked individually, etc.
I understand that for most purposes, this doesn't matter too much, and it's unlikely that a player actually notices the difference, but I'm the geeky sort of guy who would get pleasure just knowing things are simulated faithfully. (Small wonder Dwarf Fortress already is my favorite game as is.)
And Toady has been looking at multithreading. So...what's the problem?Question copied over from another thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159061).I very much doubt it if we don't get multithreading. Improving technology has been focusing on parallelism, DF has not.
Is there any chance that some of the abstraction that has to be in due to memory/processor constraints and whatnot will be taken out in the future due to improving technology? An example would be how currently, only some fraction of the creatures in the world can be a historical figure that is tracked in any level of detail, because it would be too much to do this for all of them. Similarly, not all items are tracked individually, etc.
I understand that for most purposes, this doesn't matter too much, and it's unlikely that a player actually notices the difference, but I'm the geeky sort of guy who would get pleasure just knowing things are simulated faithfully. (Small wonder Dwarf Fortress already is my favorite game as is.)
DF is the antithesis of a parallel application. Everything effects everything. Every subsystem effects every other. The mechanism system effects the fluid system, which effects the temperature system, which effects the damage system, which effects the psychology system. And all of them have to sync every tick. There's no room for big gains from parallelism even if Toady were an expert in it, instead of just starting to dabble. This isn't even a design problem; it's a project objective problem: everything is supposed to interact with everything to be a complete simulation.And Toady has been looking at multithreading. So...what's the problem?Question copied over from another thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159061).I very much doubt it if we don't get multithreading. Improving technology has been focusing on parallelism, DF has not.
Is there any chance that some of the abstraction that has to be in due to memory/processor constraints and whatnot will be taken out in the future due to improving technology? An example would be how currently, only some fraction of the creatures in the world can be a historical figure that is tracked in any level of detail, because it would be too much to do this for all of them. Similarly, not all items are tracked individually, etc.
I understand that for most purposes, this doesn't matter too much, and it's unlikely that a player actually notices the difference, but I'm the geeky sort of guy who would get pleasure just knowing things are simulated faithfully. (Small wonder Dwarf Fortress already is my favorite game as is.)
When during play does world activation happen? Does it happen all the time during play or does it catch up at the end of every year?
@Whatsifsowhatsit:
1.0 is a decade or two away.
sometimes you get an elf commemorating the slaying of a minotaur by naming their wooden low boot which presumably saved their life or something
I've always wondered how those two created the in-game languages, yeah.'
Capntastic: EggFibre asks, 'How did you create the languages for all the civilizations? Did you base them off of something in real life or did they all come from your imagination? Also, how long did the process take?'
Toady: We created all the languages. They were not based on anything in real life and the main reason for that is because we haven't added grammar yet. What we did is we had the list the words, which took a while to just type in all the words - the English versions of the words - and then we had a generator that just had certain rules about how consonants could be combine and what frequencies there were for the vowels, and that kind of thing. It had to generate a list of words and then we went through by hand and picked out words that were either existing words - especially words that are profanity, because it would generate plenty of those - and words that just sounded wrong; when you look at the word for candy or something and when you end up with some really harsh sounding word, and then you just roll the generator on that again until it gets something that matches. That's really all it was. With goblins we let more things go through regardless of their tone because we wanted the language to sound more alien, but it was pretty much just that. When we get to things like grammar it's going to be harder to completely ... we'll just put in different processes there, but I don't think it's going to be randomly generated because you either have a rule or you don't, or you have variants of a rule or whatever, but there's only four or five stock languages, so we're probably just going to pick and choose which rules we think are appropriate and place them in.
Then there's the larger question or what about a randomly generated language. The computer can spit one of those out really fast with random grammar and random words and all that, but then you will have the problem where some of the words are really not something you want to have. We haven't tried that yet, and it might not be that bad of a problem in retrospect so it could be that we do the random generation and then what we'd do it just ... depending on how we store our sentence trees, when we get to that kind of thing, because computers are good at that sort of thing, so you can just throw it in ... It's obviously going to be simplified from the giant thousands of pages of, you know, even entry-level textbooks you can get on this kind of thing, it's progressively more complicated theory that they've got floating around now, but we throw some simple stuff in there and I imagine it'll all work really nicely. The only thing I'm not sure about is when you get a lot of words that are recognizable or so on, if that breaks it too badly. I mean it would be interesting to have a conlang generator and just see how it turns out.
I agree with Fleeting Frames, although King Mir is correct in that DF is very far from s a perfect candidate for parallelization. Since everything has to synchronize at the end of a tick, you can run things in parallel DURING the tick and consolidate the results at synchronization points during the tick. Different methods can be used for different sub problems.The trouble is, syncing every tic, by default every 10 ms, is expensive. An that has to happen for every shared bit of data, one way or another. That's going to eat away any gains you might have gotten from parallelism. Plus there's going to be a significant portion that you can't parallelize. Plus there's the challenge of breaking of breaking up work into suitably equal size chunks...
One example is pathing, where you can have separate threads calculate paths for creatures. At a synchronization point you then validate the paths (to ensure they paths calculated are still valid) and recalculate the ones that are not. Validating a path is a reasonably cheap operation compared to calculating the path in the first place, so there's a potential for a gain here, but there's overhead in organizing the farming out of the path calculation, in addition to the rather substantial effort of ensuring the data used for path calculations is stored in a thread safe manner that doesn't slow down things more than you gain.
All of this is dependent on the CPU being the bottleneck and not memory bandwidth, though. If memory is the bottleneck, the additional administration of threading might actually result in a loss.Yeah, that's another problem. DF is known to be significantly bound by memory latency.
@Whatsifsowhatsit:I don't think this is necessarily true. Adding new features does not have to mean making the game slower. AFAIK, Toady does not update his hardware often, and the game will continue to be playable on the hardware he uses.
1.0 is a decade or two away, and I think DF will have slowed down too much by that time unless parallelism is used to some extent.
Playable to the extent that he plays. His forts don't last long enough for FPS death.@Whatsifsowhatsit:I don't think this is necessarily true. Adding new features does not have to mean making the game slower. AFAIK, Toady does not update his hardware often, and the game will continue to be playable on the hardware he uses.
1.0 is a decade or two away, and I think DF will have slowed down too much by that time unless parallelism is used to some extent.
How many players even HAVE forts that last long enough to suffer FPS death? More often than not, death by boredom claims my forts, especially these days since kobolds and goblins never seem to visit. :VMost fortresses suffer FPS slowdown if played any length of time, but where the death threshold is individual. Enjoyment falls as the (real) time it takes to do something increases without any "valid" reason. I certainly constrain my fortresses because of it (playing dead civs to keep the number of dorfs down, having minimal amount of trees on the surface [a rainfall of 3 seems to cause some trees to be present on embark, but no saplings to appear], constant house cleaning to get rid of old clothes, avoiding flowing fluids,..., but haven't yet shrunk the embark size below 3*3). Boredom is likely to set in unless you have some kind of goal for your fortress: random plodding along when you've already probed the secrets isn't likely to keep the interest up. Getting sieges seems to require more careful planning than it should, since you run a significant risk of having a crappy outpost as the closest goblin settlement (and it's not unusual for it to be set up during the 2 week embark period), causing the sieges to be drawn from a goblin pop of 50 or so, and thus be rapidly depleted.
Thats almost definitely not a priority related to developing the code so it won't happen anytime soon, but I imagine it would be a fairly simple matter of preparing the dye from a stone or glob of clay via a reaction at, say, the alchemists workshop. Toady could implement it readily enough.
Is working on the thread dyeing system even in the dev notes?
Thats almost definitely not a priority related to developing the code so it won't happen anytime soon, but I imagine it would be a fairly simple matter of preparing the dye from a stone or glob of clay via a reaction at, say, the alchemists workshop. Toady could implement it readily enough.It's in the big, big list a couple of times. Although that may well have been written before dye existed in the first place. Wouldn't like to guess when it'd be looked at. Scenarios perhaps, maybe Economy? Whenever Merchant Adventurer starts getting fleshed out I suppose.
Is working on the thread dyeing system even in the dev notes?
Bloat243, CLOTHING VARIATIONS, (Future): Entities need to have clothing variations, even at the town level. This includes adding many clothing types beyond the shirt and pants we currently have. Certain materials and dye colors could be in favor (need to add dye first).
Of course, that requires adding display pedestals to the game. I support it, but it seems to be at least somewhat difficult.Display pedestals (etc) are in the new artifact development notes.
Of course, that requires adding display pedestals to the game. I support it, but it seems to be at least somewhat difficult.
Some buildings/items used to display artifacts (all modes)^ from Dev page
Also it doesn't need to be a pedestal it could easily be a table or even a cabinet.Urist:Let me show you my artifact adamantium sword!
Also it doesn't need to be a pedestal it could easily be a table or even a cabinet.Urist:Let me show you my artifact adamantium sword!
Monom:ok!
Urist:here it is!
Monom:This is a cabinet.
Urist:this is how I display my artifact sword.
Monom:but I can't see it. Why'd you put it in a cabinet?
*Urist whispers in Monom's ear*
Urist:"Use T".
Monom: "Oh".
But t is for fortress mode. D:
Question for ToadyIt's right there in the new artifact devnotes. Buildings and/or furniture for displaying artifacts. Guards if necessary.
How do figures in worldgen sites display their artifacts/holy relics? Are they placed on the ground or lifted (like other items in shops) onto a table?
But t is for fortress mode. D:Spoiler: If you hate fun open this (click to show/hide)
Uhh, cabinet with a glass front/viewable from close inspection mode I guess?
QuoteQuestion for ToadyIt's right there in the new artifact devnotes. Buildings and/or furniture for displaying artifacts. Guards if necessary.
How do figures in worldgen sites display their artifacts/holy relics? Are they placed on the ground or lifted (like other items in shops) onto a table?
QuoteQuestion for ToadyIt's right there in the new artifact devnotes. Buildings and/ovr furniture for displaying artifacts. Guards if necessary.
How do figures in worldgen sites display their artifacts/holy relics? Are they placed on the ground or lifted (like other items in shops) onto a table?
Hmm. its not usual that im so blind. Thanks for pointing it out.
no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)Next devlog? "Crayon rewards replaced with cosplay rewards."
no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)It's been at least once every 7 days for the past several years (with one crazy break of 8 days somewhere) so not too late yet.
A masterful cosplay of a lobster-man by doge, it was made by Dogfort on the Internet on the 5th of Timber.no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)Next devlog? "Crayon rewards replaced with cosplay rewards."
no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)It's been at least once every 7 days for the past several years (with one crazy break of 8 days somewhere) so not too late yet.
One surely due today (depending on your time zone).
no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)It's been at least once every 7 days for the past several years (with one crazy break of 8 days somewhere) so not too late yet.
One surely due today (depending on your time zone).
no devlog for quite a long time now, I'm sure it's for something great :)It's been at least once every 7 days for the past several years (with one crazy break of 8 days somewhere) so not too late yet.
One surely due today (depending on your time zone).
I miss the old days when there was a devlog every 2-3 days.
I know you mentioned in a DFtalk a while back that surnames have some historical inaccuracies for the 'time period' of DF - but I'd imagine it'd be quite the hassle to keep track of family heirlooms if every new family member has a totally unique name.Permanent inherited surnames are right on the edge of the cutoff; Some countries using them and others not around that time. Lots of aristocracy adopted them well within the cutoff, but the commoners often took longer.
Right now the marriage mechanics in Fortress Mode are incredibly micromanagement-intensive, when they didn't use to be.I was under the impression this was because socialising doesn't work right...
I hope Toady makes falling in love and having children a more organic process for your dwarves as part of this update.
Well currently you can mod the lifespan of almost everything. I certainly do. My dwarves live for 480 years at most and my elves live to 3000 while goblins have a rather short live at 120 years top (the same as humans I think).
But it's indeed a good question. While you currently can mod the races to be like Tolkien, Warhammer, Warcraft or whatever, would they be affected by the randomness at some point? Or could we choose among several stereotypes of each race or predefined characteristics.
I'm waiting for the bug fix "No more zombie invasion from dead family members to claim heirlooms"
Toady, can someone have several family tag ? If yes, how will people choose which family group to defend if a conflict happens ? If not, how will family change will work (marriage, adoption, etc.) ?
For now, it runs an "importance" check on the family groups during a marriage -- if there is no winner, then it just flips a coin.
Well currently you can mod the lifespan of almost everything. I certainly do. My dwarves live for 480 years at most and my elves live to 3000 while goblins have a rather short live at 120 years top (the same as humans I think).
But it's indeed a good question. While you currently can mod the races to be like Tolkien, Warhammer, Warcraft or whatever, would they be affected by the randomness at some point? Or could we choose among several stereotypes of each race or predefined characteristics.
I think the DF races mechanically in the game are represented well. Fantasy characters have never been smooth sailing for interpretation (goblins used to be much different before D&D and subsequent pop culture after that with warhammer and WoW when 'greenskins' as we know them were brought into the main-steam)
Both the elves and goblins have excellent natural memory statistics (so that they never rust or forget a song) to compensate for immortality.
It's going to take quite a bit longer than 6 days for the artifact release to happen. Taverns seemed pretty simple (at first) and that took a year (plus six months of enhancements and bug fixing). The framework and worldgen stuff's only just started, all the in-game things that the player actually gets to interact with hasn't even started yet, and that'll take a while. I have no idea, of course, but I can just imagine Kobold site generation by itself bogging down development for month or two.
With the approach of the artifact revamp (which may be already out by the time you read this...
It's going to take quite a bit longer than 6 days for the artifact release to happen. Taverns seemed pretty simple and that took a year. The framework and worldgen stuff's only just started, all the in-game things that the player actually gets to interact with hasn't even started yet, and that'll take a while. I have no idea, of course, but I can just imagine Kobold site generation by itself bogging down development for month or two.
With the approach of the artifact revamp (which may be already out by the time you read this...
It's going to take quite a bit longer than 6 days for the artifact release to happen. Taverns seemed pretty simple (at first) and that took a year (plus six months of enhancements and bug fixing). The framework and worldgen stuff's only just started, all the in-game things that the player actually gets to interact with hasn't even started yet, and that'll take a while. I have no idea, of course, but I can just imagine Kobold site generation by itself bogging down development for month or two.
With the approach of the artifact revamp (which may be already out by the time you read this...
Toady goes through and answers these FotF questions each month, and august is nearing.It's going to take quite a bit longer than 6 days for the artifact release to happen. Taverns seemed pretty simple (at first) and that took a year (plus six months of enhancements and bug fixing). The framework and worldgen stuff's only just started, all the in-game things that the player actually gets to interact with hasn't even started yet, and that'll take a while. I have no idea, of course, but I can just imagine Kobold site generation by itself bogging down development for month or two.
With the approach of the artifact revamp (which may be already out by the time you read this...
Wait, what do you mean six days? Am I missing something here?
New Devlog just after some days. This is great.
Will other races/entities generate thieves to steal artifacts or just kobolds (as goblins thieves just kidnap children)?
> Your YAK BULL has been stolen/led away by a elven animal activist!!
Are adventurer sites going to be worked on a bit more soon, or during which arc are the likely to be re-visited? Specifically curious about being able to dig and to build the other workshops.Adventure mode digging will usher in a major update for my mod.
Are adventurer sites going to be worked on a bit more soon, or during which arc are the likely to be re-visited? Specifically curious about being able to dig and to build the other workshops.Adventure mode digging will usher in a major update for my mod.
* Dirst wrings his hands menacingly
Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?-Urist?
That would just be so awesome. And you just know it'd go completely overlooked and end up on a bug report. Visiting elf forgot to drop my artifact leggings when he left the fortress...Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?-Urist?
-What Urist?
-Those fellows over there haven't touched their pint of beer since they arrived two months ago. They also asked lots of questions about the Golden Trousers of Urist Mcloving...
-Yeah?
-Yes. They also rented a single room for all of them.
-The five of them?
-Yes. They don't let the maid in to clean. And there's been weird digging noises near the vaults.
-Bah Urist you are too untrusted. They are fine lads...
Forgot? More like he thought his own legging were getting worn out, so he exchanged them for the best alternative in the fort. And of course he would keep his new legging on when he leaves the fort -- they're his now.That would just be so awesome. And you just know it'd go completely overlooked and end up on a bug report. Visiting elf forgot to drop my artifact leggings when he left the fortress...Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?-Urist?
-What Urist?
-Those fellows over there haven't touched their pint of beer since they arrived two months ago. They also asked lots of questions about the Golden Trousers of Urist Mcloving...
-Yeah?
-Yes. They also rented a single room for all of them.
-The five of them?
-Yes. They don't let the maid in to clean. And there's been weird digging noises near the vaults.
-Bah Urist you are too untrusted. They are fine lads...
With the artifact release, will residents of small settlements and towns/forts without a library have somewhere to store books and slabs? Will they appear in the owners' house or on their person, or a mead hall/civic structures?Sounds like no one in that town has Reading skill, and the pictures weren't very entertaining :)
Right now I think they just get scattered out in animal pastures and farm fields, because I occasionally stumble on a book just laying on the ground.
With the artifact release, will residents of small settlements and towns/forts without a library have somewhere to store books and slabs? Will they appear in the owners' house or on their person, or a mead hall/civic structures?Sounds like no one in that town has Reading skill, and the pictures weren't very entertaining :)
Right now I think they just get scattered out in animal pastures and farm fields, because I occasionally stumble on a book just laying on the ground.
Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?-Urist?
-What Urist?
-Those fellows over there haven't touched their pint of beer since they arrived two months ago. They also asked lots of questions about the Golden Trousers of Urist Mcloving...
-Yeah?
-Yes. They also rented a single room for all of them.
-The five of them?
-Yes. They don't let the maid in to clean. And there's been weird digging noises near the vaults.
-Bah Urist you are too untrusted. They are fine lads...
Can we expect at some point in the future to have the ability to cobyntrol armies in a manner similar to medieval warfare, with strict formations and the like? I.E, PlayerMcGeneral or UristMcGeneral can tell a massive force to move into a phalanx or wedge.That would correspond to tge army arc. So whenever that comes around. Currently the development is on artifacts and magic, maybe after that if Toady feels is the right move.
Can we expect at some point in the future to have the ability to control armies in a manner similar to medieval warfare, with strict formations and the like? I.E, PlayerMcGeneral or UristMcGeneral can tell a massive force to move into a phalanx or wedge.Formations were planned for a previous version, but got delayed in favour of getting the update out sooner.
We already have the Stand Kinda Near This Spot Formation. Don't get greedy :)Can we expect at some point in the future to have the ability to control armies in a manner similar to medieval warfare, with strict formations and the like? I.E, PlayerMcGeneral or UristMcGeneral can tell a massive force to move into a phalanx or wedge.Formations were planned for a previous version, but got delayed in favour of getting the update out sooner.
We already have the Stand Kinda Near This Spot Formation. Don't get greedy :)
Can we expect at some point in the future to have the ability to control armies in a manner similar to medieval warfare, with strict formations and the like? I.E, PlayerMcGeneral or UristMcGeneral can tell a massive force to move into a phalanx or wedge.Also it would take a pretty complex update to combat beyond just formations for them to even be worth anything.
Obviously you've never had one of your legendary axedwarves charge the enemy, get separated from the rest of the squad, and get overwhelmed. I just want an option that makes my dwarves hang back instead of charging the enemy like maniacs.Can we expect at some point in the future to have the ability to control armies in a manner similar to medieval warfare, with strict formations and the like? I.E, PlayerMcGeneral or UristMcGeneral can tell a massive force to move into a phalanx or wedge.Also it would take a pretty complex update to combat beyond just formations for them to even be worth anything.
What does "placeholder mechanic" mean in the context of Dwarf Fortress, where any any mechanic is subject to potential improvement in a future release?Placeholders are mechanics that are intended to be temporary. Usually because something bigger is planned (Scenarios release in this case where family is specifically intended to be focused on). But for now, something has to be in place to test that artifacts are working. Hence temporary placeholder inheritence system. (Without it, artifacts wouldn't move around much, so won't be fun to play with).
'Racially Dwarf' dwarf-fortress mode is placeholder feasably.No it isn't, at least in the following sense. Dwarves were at the beginning intended to be the race the race the player controls. This is obvious from how they are featured in the name "Dwarf Fortress". The plans to allow other races a more recent development.
1. Are there any plans to allow for public transportation? You know, rent a wagon or something similar.
2. Will it eventually be possible to create a non-conventional transportation system? Perhaps a system of portals allowing for quick transit or a BALLOON OF GLORIOUS DWARVENNESS.
Quote from: HinaichigoDo you have plans to add/increase any features that were limited by technology, once computers get more powerful?
For example I think you set the max number of sites per civ under such considerations.
Do you think after 10 years when computers are significantly stronger you will start increasing the fidelity/scale of things that you had to limit due to today's technology?Quote from: WhatsifsowhatsitIs there any chance that some of the abstraction that has to be in due to memory/processor constraints and whatnot will be taken out in the future due to improving technology? An example would be how currently, only some fraction of the creatures in the world can be a historical figure that is tracked in any level of detail, because it would be too much to do this for all of them. Similarly, not all items are tracked individually, etc.
Do you do Sudoku?
1)Are artifacts more likely to be recoded to take damage the way a body part would ("It is mangled!", etc.) than non-artifacts are?
2)Are there currently any plans to use one artifact as a reagent to produce another, different artifact, including both cases where the original is and is not broken? Could this be also extend to turning one larger artifact into several smaller ones or several small artifacts into one larger one?
3)Are artifacts planned to occasionally be tied to specific unique entity positions (The four crowns of Narnia, the crown jewels, etc.)?
Especially now with myth stuff upcoming, and their being able to affect terrain, what about worldgen disasters? Mundane stuff, maybe, such as volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, or more interestingly, meteor strikes. And for high-magic worlds, magical disasters, like an evil mage wipes out a region and turns it to desert, or the moon crashes into the planet, or a god/demon does something disastrous (great floods, smiting a city, fiery apocalypse). Something that would have major effects, at least in a part of the game world.
In a similar vein, magical artifacts will be created, but what about magical landforms made during worldgen? I know about the cosmic eggshell thing, and you mentioned that the HFS will be more abstracted, but what about something like a holy pantheon on top of a mountain, or magical creatures/gods who have a home in the sky, for example?
Will AIs ever have a more complex approach to combat? Will they ever make "threat assessments" and view combat as a series of stages? Players can make combat revolve around the creature type or on combat stages (address enemy charge attack, address enemy grab attack, address enemy weapon attack, address enemy body material, address enemy special attack, etc, etc).
How would world demographics/population dynamics work in a setting where there is no death at all (of intelligent races)?
Also, the dev page said there would be a spectrum from "No death or violence to regular settings to bleak and horrifying", but as you described it in your answer to my previous question, it sounds like you consider the regular settings to already be the bleak and horrifying end of the spectrum. Is that indeed the case, or did you just not go into the other side of things? If it's the latter, could you elaborate on what would be different on that side of the spectrum relative to the regular settings as we know them now? Perhaps just quantitatively more violence by changing some numbers around? Or would it be a qualitative difference somehow?
What is the plan to deal with the oceans?
What about poisons, or different syndromes?
Right now, jobs are set in a fixed "priority list." Will we be able to change those priorities someday? It seems like dwarves hardly ever dump items any more.
Are there any plans to revamp handling of aquifers?
Also possibility to make somemandwarf made floors collect water same way how "murky pool" works. (when you don't want to use aquifers and have no rivers nor natural pools around)
Question 1 - If you are personally in charge of a army in adventure mode (or some kind of abstract fortress mode) will the player have any say in how a battle's victorious result is handled or will it be pre-determined? Such as determining a slaughter of the inhabitants in order to move in your own entity (typically building on top) or integrating them with a forced administrator (alternatively just pillaging/razing the place and running back home) with some small details of additional policy.
Question 2 - Will in the future more flexibility be given to adventure (in leading/being part of army) or fortress mode players in wiping out non major settlements off the map entirely (such as goblins destroying hillocks/hamlets to burnt smears and smashed houses the player can embark on freely with the space unoccupied but leaving the market bearing fortresses in reclaimable ruins) such is the case you might want to force the goblins to retreat to their towers to cut down their max population and huddle them all up for a final killing blow to take the citadel.
Question 3 - Are there any plans for adventurers to commit to their own hearth loyalties (ground up little kingdom respected as a minor independent model of the parent civilisation for simplicity) or have any function to forcibly (or be coerced into it) join opposing/alternative hearths (such as a knowledgable flip from dwarf civ to goblin civ in line with betraying your race etc) even if its functioning as a sell-sword for getting caught up in foreign conflicts rather than a blood-pact or anything requiring solid commitment.
Final question - Will goblins (and anyone else) ever be able to realise and fulfill their dreams on ruling the world.
> Now that materials are more accountable for their material properties post-armor nerf, are there any plans to use this to forward (as detailed by threetoes stories) a way of chemical warfare by bringing vials and other potentially breakable containers into the domain of [TOOLS] (therefore additional modding support) rather than hardcoded objects (giving players moddability for advanced concepts like very crude fuse lit and comically heavy and large iron hand grenades/barrels that explode and because they are wood, splinter outwards/shrapnel)
A bit suggestiony, but a adventurer could take account of a particularly corrosive/flammable substance such as a cave blob's substance, scoop it up in the item then throw at the floor/target to shatter and release/load it as a ammo type into a specially made crossbow to deliver to the target OR catch some smoke/compounds to create smoke to load into a tiny handheld bomb to reduce visibility and sneak away
Any short/long term plans for babies to gain any interesting roles in world gen? Heirs of kingdoms being hidden away by evil uncles, babies being visited by religious leaders upon their birth and having prophecies told about them, babies being sent down the river and adopted by monarchs or just eaten by elves? You know, baby stuff. Seems like at least some of it would fit in with myths.
In what cases does the worldgen 'dead' counter go down?
What compiler do you use for compiling the new versions of Dwarf Fortress? Did you upgrade the mac and linux compilers for the 64-bit version as well? Do you use -O3 on the mac and linux compilers to provide optimizations to the software?
> Will small item tools like boning knives/ladels cast out into adventure mode only, ever find their way into the fortress mode gradually as a \component of reactions in order to create alternative results/constructive new use without a new take on zone based workshops? As per methodically skinning and slaughtering a animal with a slicing knife, deboning it with a boning knife (especially useful in fish), then carving the valuable meats off it with a carving knife for greater productive output.
You mention specifcally Dwarvern historical figures will make artifacts through worldgen Strange Moods, will other races also get a chance to make stuff? If not by moods (which seem kind of Dwarfy) then by some other mechanic? Or is that what holy relics are? How about goblins - will they or their demon masters make evil artifacts?
Actually as a part two to that question, will Strange Moods actually be limited to Dwarves (as a race) or be available to anyone who's part of a Dwarf civ? Maybe not now but after Mythgen in the future will we start to see some difference in behaviour and ability between races from the same civ?
Can historical figures fail their mood during worldgen ?
Quote from: kontakoYou've mentioned that you intend to allow heroes in worldgen to name their weapons and armour, will this extend to our adventurer characters (say, after our character earns a nickname for heroic deeds)?
I could imagine my companions beginning disputes over who inherits my named items after my character dies.Quote from: Max^TMYou mentioned world-gen heroic items and holy relics (the temples will be so awesome!) and I am curious if this will be a thing where you get the option to name something after some point, or even having them acquire names like we do after 5 hist-fig kills?
On that note, I'm sure you intend to get around to it at some point, but would other things which would/could bestow a title besides the kills mechanism in place now be a sooner or later type of change, like something that comes in with a language structure/dictionary rewrite?
-Will holy relics be tied to specific gods (so a relic associated with the god of war would be a weapon, for example) or just cultures in general?
-Will there be artifact instruments?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhen mythgen is complete will the civilizations be limited to Dwarf, Elf, Human, Goblin, Random Monstrosity (depending on your 'random' setting) or are you looking into having it throw out existing races as civs too (gnome, minotaur, gorlak, mountain goat, etc)?Quote from: WhatsifsowhatsitWith the upcoming (probably in the far future, but even so) generalization of fantasy races into a system where you can be toward the realistic (just humans) or toward the totally fantastic (naught but procedurally generated creatures), will at some point the stock races also see some more variability? Currently (for example) goblins are rather evil and elves are immortal cannibals; this is certainly not true in all fantasy. In Warcraft, goblins are a bit sneaky and rather capitalistic, but not necessarily evil or violent, and I don't think the LotR elves eat their own dead. Sometimes elves also just live longer lives rather than being fully immortal (to death by aging). Will such alternate possibilities at any point be included, and if so, how much, if any, player control do you envision over such things?
You have previously said that the version number is derived from a list of the features you are going to implement. It would be impractical if this list was mutable (because the version number could go down between releases) but assuming it is immutable where do your new ideas / player suggestions go?
Speaking of this, will artforms be able to have artifact/magical properties?
I'm thinking of someone going into a mood and coming out with a song/dance/poem that causes weird things to happen to people who perform or witness it, or maybe certain wizards using songs or poems in their spells.
When the game is more optimised in the future, will we ever see any development on 'the wind' in regular fortress play/greater map extent, since it is mostly defined by static air tiles at the moment and has no basis on the game. Its either in the air tiles or it is not for windmills, thermodynamics would be greatly aided by more hot/cold air gas floating around and weather patterns akin to 'evil rain' would have reason to exist and travel instead of being static to a biome to where even side by side tiles of a different temperature and biome can rain and the other will snow heavily.
Hot and cold air currents meeting between biomes sounds like a fun recipie for a thunderstorm/extreme weather and a bad time to be wearing metal on high ground and have stubby little legs that can't run that fast when you think walking across the mountains is a cheap shortcut.
What happens when your adventurer dies post worldgen via world-activation, for example your adventurer dies by say dying in an invasion/insurrection or dying from starvation or dying from old age due to world activation while you were playing another adventurer or playing a fort. Does the adventurer get entombed in the crypts underneath the city or do they just cease to exist or does it just drop their corpse somewhere in the city?
Toady, I quoted the last dev blog about magical items. I'm not sure I have understood it perfectly.
Does it mean "heroic items" are the item counterpart of the "heroic name" given to people when they have fought enough ?
If this is the case, will magical items/artifact still have a name before they are involved in some fights ?
Have you looked into OpenCL as a way to help offload calculations, in roughly the same way people talk about multithreading? It would have to be optional, but could still be beneficial.
How far off are plans to expand the dye system? Specifically to the point where we might get earth-based dyes like ochre?
Do you plan on having a sort of action sequence for lords , (like you already do with tavern keepers where you can order a drink and they will go, get a mug, then actually go to the barrel and fill it with your alcohol then bring it to you), where the lord will, upon receiving an artifact may, say, call over a servant and have the servant put the newly acquired shiny on a pedestal, or walk over to the pedestal themselves and put it there, after you retrieve it for a quest, it would be extremely satisfying if say, the following happened:
(sequence)
Is the number of families limited by the starting creatures, or do creatures elevated from entity positions create new families?
Quote from: WittyWith the addition of family heirlooms, do you have any plans to add surnames?
I know you mentioned in a DFtalk a while back that surnames have some historical inaccuracies for the 'time period' of DF - but I'd imagine it'd be quite the hassle to keep track of family heirlooms if every new family member has a totally unique name.Quote from: Random_DragonPatronyms and matronyms would be interesting, but in addition to the hard code, the language files would need a dwarfy word for "son/daughter of" to add to it. But which sounds more dwarf-like to you: placing the word at the start of the patronym (Urist McDwarf), at the end of it (Urist Dwarfson), or as a separate word (Urist Bin Dwarf)?Quote from: BloodAndIronAlso, the impending fiddling with inheritance and family groups brought to mind an interesting question: do you intend to redo the naming system to respect things like family names, clan names, places of birth, patro/matronyms, or notable deeds? What about the naming of non-sapient creatures by civilizations, whose lineages aren't really paid attention to as much? It always seemed strange that creatures like giant dingoes were given the same extensive names as dwarves that were just as random and hard to remember, making for rather underwhelming villains.
Toady, can someone have several family tag ? If yes, how will people choose which family group to defend if a conflict happens ? If not, how will family change will work (marriage, adoption, etc.) ?
Quote from: LordBaalCan animals or prisoners be claimed by families? It is on the plans? I keep imaging wars over dragons or a chicken hehehe or perhaps a incarcerated goblin and things like that.
Also do you have any derivative development low hanging fruits, related or not to families and artifacts with this work yet?Quote from: FantasticDorfIs intelligent living 'property' like slaves (existing in that state and being enslaved as a result of ethics) liable to be taken as loot or interacted in some such way if the invaders deem them useful enough to use (liberated into spare entity population or sold on etc even if not explicitly needed/wanted as slaves if a quick death to 'free them' is not enough)
The existing system is rather bare of details, as it's given that slaves are survivors but then incarcerated and released instantly as seemingly normal working citizens in worldgen usually after less than a year, natural slaves belonging to folk for doing actual work or trotting following behind their masters looking rather glum are actually rather rare.
Are/can slabs be worthy enough artifacts (for both goblins and necromancers) to prompt wars over if they are stolen/claimed by a adventurer or entity? In such a case that goblins may wish to reclaim their demonic master, or as per not engaging in apprentice training, armies of the dead lead by necromancers and apprentices chase down to punish the thief, chasing them and where the tome ends up (potentially in a fortress prompting conflict) all across the land relentlessly as a hostile factional night creature force (like a loyalty cascade where usual night creature pacification rules don't apply, as necro-on-necro macabre pokemon undead infighting)
With the approach of the artifact revamp, what do you intend to do with moods? It seems to me that the fey, possessed, fell, and macabre moods are in the same camp as the good/evil biomes, being more placeholders than final features (though you could say that for everything in the game, really). Would you replace the moods with a more generalized, procedural framework that accounts in some way for power sources or actual deities? On a sort-of tangentially related note, would you have artifacts carry some of their inspiration's properties or theme, like a sword divinely inspired by a death god withering plants and binding the undead to the wielder's will?
Will other races/entities generate thieves to steal artifacts or just kobolds (as goblins thieves just kidnap children)?
Are adventurer sites going to be worked on a bit more soon, or during which arc are the likely to be re-visited? Specifically curious about being able to dig and to build the other workshops.
Are there any plans for adventurers to be able to craft artifacts via strange moods either in the artifact arc or the magic arc? I know you said you might have any item able to be declared an artifact for adventurers, but could they gather materials and make something of the highest craftsdwarfship with that becoming their primary emotional need? Is that kind of how a geas will work?
So, is the plan during fortress mode to have some invaders specifically target your site because you have artifacts? When rumours of your artifacts spread, will invaders potentially come from further away (i.e not neighbours) to attack you, or will it only effect the rate that nearby goblins invade (like wealth and exported wealth now)?
Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?
With the artifact release, will residents of small settlements and towns/forts without a library have somewhere to store books and slabs? Will they appear in the owners' house or on their person, or a mead hall/civic structures?
What does "placeholder mechanic" mean in the context of Dwarf Fortress, where any any mechanic is subject to potential improvement in a future release?
I'm not going to do anything with it now, and I'm not sure what's going to happen later. Thinking about that sort of thing is more likely to happen with the proper cultural additions that come after myths. This was just a quick structural addition I needed for heirlooms. For now, as needed, they'll refer to their family group by the ancestor id it uses to track it, but it isn't incorporated into their own name.
lol Max. I'll throw my proverbial hat in the ring here for the next round of answers.Lime green for questions. And yeah Toady's mentioned replacing this altogether with...something else. Actually, would be interesting to hear if this 'something else' is any clearer yet or still waiting for just the right Strange Mood to hit before it gets looked at.
The Work Orders update was truly fantastic. Have you given any thought to adding a similar quality-of-life improvement to the labors interface? Honestly, that is the only part of the GUI which I really feel I need a mod/utility to handle. Trying to manage the labors for more than a handful of Dwarves using the ingame menus is truly cumbersome.
He he he, that's the plan! dev: "Quests can be taken by player adventurer or other characters" Forming part of the basis for it now with worldgen adventuring groups going for heirlooms etc., hopefully with some relationships that persist into play.
> A handful of socially competent dwarves will skim you mostly past all civilized persons blocking your way but likely not benefit you at all if you are randomly attacked if a event or just circumstance (you cross paths with a notorious creature taking refuge within the region/patrol force) forces you into a combat you can't escape easily from because your dwarves you chose tire easily from running etc or die of the injuries they sustain due to no medical professionals or supplies out in the wilderness too far away from help.
> Do you ford the river at risk of dwarves dying due to poor swim skills? or turn back for a new path/put time into making a shoddy bridge to cross if you have a carpenter. Player given the question and dwarves try the chosen solution to the best of their capabilities.
> Little Urist Jimmy after drinking some fouled water has died of dysentery, do you leave his corpse behind to try and distract the wolves stalking you or take time aside to properly bury him and put his soul to rest at risk of being attacked? (with consequences of the corpse/ghost being resurrected as a historical figure down the line due to tragic/other circumstances)
> Dwarves arriving safely at the new site for the hillock (to which the journey may be dangerous) will tell you what they are doing and occasionally exclaim at the lack of materials/skills/manpower they need to fill the quota of basic things to found the site before you really get to demand anything of them when they are self sufficient in return.
If we start out with a typical result being "dwarves replaced by worm people living in a world-intestine and routinely being snatched by spirits to be drowned in a lake of bile", or something like that, it's fine, and we can refine our sense of horror (and playability) from there.
If we start out with a typical result being "dwarves replaced by worm people living in a world-intestine and routinely being snatched by spirits to be drowned in a lake of bile", or something like that, it's fine, and we can refine our sense of horror (and playability) from there.
Can't rush quality but how's Threetoe's latest story coming along?
Hopefully it's not about drinking people.Can't rush quality but how's Threetoe's latest story coming along?
Threetoe's working on a story? o.o
August report is up. Interesting contentWith the oh so important words 'site lag' sneaking in at the end there where they might be overlooked. Looks like we're heading for another Best Release Ever for Adventurer (and the fortress stuff will probably be nice too).
I personally am looking forward to being a raven-man whose life goal is to collect every artifact ever and use them as throwing weapons.August report is up. Interesting contentWith the oh so important words 'site lag' sneaking in at the end there where they might be overlooked. Looks like we're heading for another Best Release Ever for Adventurer (and the fortress stuff will probably be nice too).
I personally am looking forward to being a group of raven-man in power armor whose life goal is to collect every artifact ever and use them as throwing weapons.
I personally am looking forward to being a raven-man whose life goal is to collect every artifact ever and use them as throwing weapons.August report is up. Interesting contentWith the oh so important words 'site lag' sneaking in at the end there where they might be overlooked. Looks like we're heading for another Best Release Ever for Adventurer (and the fortress stuff will probably be nice too).
In the (far) future, will we see more blending between adventure and fortress mode or will they stay separate game modes ?Toady talks briefly about further merging modes in the interview posted today.
I mean by example not having to quit a game in fortress mode to start one in adventure mode, but switch out of your overseer position and simply either take control of one of your fort citizen/visitor or creating a character on the fly, or when visiting one of your fortresses, just switch to the overseer position of it at any time ?
Pretty soon, we're going to add creation myth generation to the game, and I suspect that'll give rise to a bit more fun on the world generation side, though I'm not sure it'd qualify as a mode. The same goes for editors for site maps and so on. Adventure mode just got cabin building, and that has the potential to morph into some sort of dwarf/adventure mode hybrid. I suspect we'll see more line-blurring like that -- fortress dwarves will be able to go off-map in the next release. Our larger plans had stricter ideas for different modes, playing dragons and deities and human towns and so forth, but I'm not sure how it'll play out, versus the natural evolution of existing modes to other styles of play.
Woops, thanks for the catch.lol Max. I'll throw my proverbial hat in the ring here for the next round of answers.Lime green for questions. And yeah Toady's mentioned replacing this altogether with...something else. Actually, would be interesting to hear if this 'something else' is any clearer yet or still waiting for just the right Strange Mood to hit before it gets looked at.
The Work Orders update was truly fantastic. Have you given any thought to adding a similar quality-of-life improvement to the labors interface? Honestly, that is the only part of the GUI which I really feel I need a mod/utility to handle. Trying to manage the labors for more than a handful of Dwarves using the ingame menus is truly cumbersome.
Double fixed.I personally am looking forward to being a group of raven-men in power armor whose life goal is to collect every artifact ever and use them as throwing weapons while on fire.
I know this is kind of a tangent but now with artifact weapons, do you see feasible a little rework for ranged weapons? Specially customable reloading time? This I think is important to differentiate crossbows from bows and blowguns.
Goblinblight, a legendary silver warhammer, handed down from one dwarf warrior to another for the last 4 generations, it has been used to kill over 2000 goblins.
I didn't realize how much this is needed, until you said it. I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be named, then you could ask about it's last known stealing location, go there, find it's trail, then follow it's trail to it's nest, and recover the artifact. Hmm... maybe this should be a suggestion...Goblinblight, a legendary silver warhammer, handed down from one dwarf warrior to another for the last 4 generations, it has been used to kill over 2000 goblins.
Then its stolen by a kea and rendered lost forever under normal rules.
Is there any contingency plan to address native animal item thieves and whether goods stolen off a site by animal thieves can be found or reclaimed from the wilderness? (a generated lair for a troop of rhesus macaques for instance, be it a particularly large tree or some other kind of thing)
I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
I have a couple of lists -- the simple suggestions list (which I dip into with every bug fix cycle), and the long-term suggestions list (which is tied to broader subjects). They don't directly impact the version number, though sometimes they are intertwined with something on the official list. Sometimes I spend a while working on suggestions or tangents that don't impact the number at all.
I didn't realize how much this is needed, until you said it. I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be named, then you could ask about it's last known stealing location, go there, find it's trail, then follow it's trail to it's nest, and recover the artifact. Hmm... maybe this should be a suggestion...Goblinblight, a legendary silver warhammer, handed down from one dwarf warrior to another for the last 4 generations, it has been used to kill over 2000 goblins.
Then its stolen by a kea and rendered lost forever under normal rules.
Is there any contingency plan to address native animal item thieves and whether goods stolen off a site by animal thieves can be found or reclaimed from the wilderness? (a generated lair for a troop of rhesus macaques for instance, be it a particularly large tree or some other kind of thing)
I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
"Elf elfelf, the elf of elves"
I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
Would you mind putting the simple suggestions list on the site somewhere? It would be nice to know which tweaks are likely to be coming next.
Would you mind putting the simple suggestions list on the site somewhere? It would be nice to know which tweaks are likely to be coming next.
If giant desert scorpions aren't on the simple suggestions list, I will be saddragon.
Just an add-on: it'd be very interesting if strength affected range for bows, granting the full 25 tile range if high, say 20 if above avg, etc. Crossbows could have an optimal power range, perhaps at 10 tile distance, just to differential between the two types of weapons. That's just based on what currently exists.
Just an add-on: it'd be very interesting if strength affected range for bows, granting the full 25 tile range if high, say 20 if above avg, etc. Crossbows could have an optimal power range, perhaps at 10 tile distance, just to differential between the two types of weapons. That's just based on what currently exists.
Alternatively, crossbow reload speed could logically be affected by strength. Again up to a certain max, just as being stronger than a bow's draw weight requires won't make it shoot farther.
Plus that allows slings to make sense if they get added.
Crossbows and bows have to be constructed out of parts that relate to how high the base force can be, then just raise the max velocity and allow string parts to exert different force strengths (say that adamantium for being both light, nigh unbreakable and thread like is perfect, gcs and forgotten beast thick webs being second to some kind of metal fiber wire alternative) if the material can take the wear and tear.Urist pulls the trigger on his new crossbow, and the shiny filament of Adamantine jumps forward... neatly slicing through the bolt which barely moves from its perch. Urist then gives up on this new-fangled marksdwarfship and uses the crossbow at it was intended: a blunt melee weapon.
Crossbows and bows have to be constructed out of parts that relate to how high the base force can be, then just raise the max velocity and allow string parts to exert different force strengths (say that adamantium for being both light, nigh unbreakable and thread like is perfect, gcs and forgotten beast thick webs being second to some kind of metal fiber wire alternative) if the material can take the wear and tear.Urist pulls the trigger on his new crossbow, and the shiny filament of Adamantine jumps forward... neatly slicing through the bolt which barely moves from its perch. Urist then gives up on this new-fangled marksdwarfship and uses the crossbow at it was intended: a blunt melee weapon.
So can anyone point me to a good discussion/tutorial about the new musical instruments and making some sanity of them?
^I am certain that will be the case, because ordinary items already track that sort of history, and it would no doubt be part of the heroic item naming process. Adding relevant kills and such with the dates would be the default.
DF used to have profanity. However, Toady found that there was never a place to use it where other words from, say, violence and death spheres wouldn't be more appropriate, so it got removed.I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
ROFL!
Toady needs to get to work on that, a language without expletives is no language at all ;)
DF used to have profanity. However, Toady found that there was never a place to use it where other words from, say, violence and death spheres wouldn't be more appropriate, so it got removed.I myself think it would be cool if the artifact-stealing kea would be namedDF languages don't have profanity, so I'm not sure how this would work ;)
ROFL!
Toady needs to get to work on that, a language without expletives is no language at all ;)
Well, I know items get kills registered on items if you're nearby when the fight happens, but I've never seen weapons have a list of kills from Worldgen fights or World Activation fights that you don't experience, even if the wielder has many kills. I always presumed this was because it wasn't implemented yet and that it's easy enough to brush aside with "They might of just used a different weapon", but if it is implemented already then please tell me.
Now, if a zombie claims 'ownership' of a item (lets say a armlet) when the arm it's attached to is severed, does the armlet belong to the new arm creature or the original parent zombie?
Quote from: Inarius
Quote" It seems that, in the development page, you want to give a very important role to artifact(s) in the next version(s). For now, artifacts are numerous in Fortress mode, meaning that, if other fortresses and cities produce as many artifacts as us, there will be a LOT of artifacts all over the world. Does this mean less moods and artifacts in the future or is this intended ?"
I'm not sure the player fortress frequency will need to be changed. The artifacts in other parts of the world will mostly be in other parts of the world, and I think in a gameish fashion they probably just won't make as many as player forts, so we shouldn't have a total glut. We'll see though. We'll have to deal with it if it gets really confusing, and if player artifacts become more magical and powerful, they might be less frequent in some worlds (while in high-magic worlds, there could be lots of magical items without them having artifact status).
Also, I don't remember whether groups can give in to demands to avoid war? I imagine the huge goblin army showing at your door demanding you surrender "ShieldBattered the Shiny of Shinies, a wood bracelet menacing with spikes of Adamantine" so the chief's wife can wear it. Then if you actually send someone out to give the bracelet, they might leave peacefully. (Or decapitate the bearer and laugh at you and proceed with the siege, if they feel particularly cruel.)
Rainseeker:
Is there ever going to be a time when goblins actually come and say 'we demand tribute, and then we'll go away?'
Toady:
Yeah I mean there should be, they already do that in ... I mean they don't, I guess ... actually I don't remember if they do ... is it just the humans that do tribute relationships? Because there's these fake tribute relationships in world generation that aren't realised in any way. You could start in a fortress where every other fortress in your civilization is paying tribute to humans and you just don't hear or have anything to do with it. That kind of thing is ... I think all that stuff is up on dev next which means we're kind of starting to think about how it's going to work. It's all coming; we have this thing up on the future - post version one - goals about actual complicated diplomacy, whatever that means, where we'd actually be thinking a lot more about arrangements and individual goals and so on; but we're going to be doing a lot of that also in the pretty short term here. With things like tribute it's going to require ... I don't want to point everything back at the caravan arc because that became kind of a habit ... Really what that is shorthand for 'sites have resources and things are tracked', so that's going to have to happen kind of soon too, especially when you start sending armies out which is one of the things right after sieges are improved quite a bit, there's already going to be armies moving on the world map at that time, and your dwarves are also going to be able to send out armies after sieges are improved, and at that point we've got to start thinking about things like supply lines and so on. There's a sense in which that could be aggravating, but I think it really improves the flow of wars and so on to have to worry about that kind of thing so you just don't have strange things happening like some army marching from town to town without taking anything, just killing everything, without being supported. What I'm getting at, though, is [that] when you've got supply lines where an army's being supplied it's similar to paying tribute, to moving goods around in that way, which also goes back to the caravan arc. It's kind of a race to see which one's going to go in first, but people are going to be moving stuff around; at that point things like guys coming to you and demanding things of you instead of just trying to kill everybody would be easily attained, which would be cool.
Will other adventurers gain reputation as they wander the world rescuing artifacts and such?
Was thinking how amusing it would be to catch a bunch of visitors about to make off with your latest artifact. Then thought how much more interesting it would be if a bunch of legendary treasure hunters just turned up one day. Keep them around, they might be good in a fight? Send them straight to the 'special' guest room, usually reserved for nobles?
Would be fun to overhear the stories being told about local heroes in adventurer too.
What about more dynamic civilizations? Will we see civil wars over different ethics splitting a civilization in two, new colonies becoming their own civilization if they are very far apart from their homeland (especially once ships are in) or perhaps two civilizations combining to one (peacefully or not)?
So the answer to this question, 'sounds good, no timeline.'I've been following the future of the fortress long enough to know that's completely possible. Doesn't prevent me from hoping that there'll be more insight.
Wait wat? Since when goblins can stablish holidays? Upon the hanging of a stinky tree hugger elf? Can we celebrate that in real life?If artifacts are constantly being stolen/plundered and also constantly being made/ordained/named, especially if certain thieves/beasts/armies are specifically targetting artifacts, I doubt they'll ever all 'settle down'. There'll almost always be something for an adventurer to do (in a large/old world anyhow).
I'm wondering eventually, if world gen keeps going all lost artifacts would be reclaimed (or the attempts be made), or would the game tag some artifacts so there's at least some for an adventurer to reclaim or simply not everything is that valuable. It must be a really cool crossbow Renowned Gill if somebody is going against Smaug to recover it. Well if it where the Renowned Grill it could be for me.
Toadyone and ThreeToe, beyond the master list they made, seem to really concentrate on the stuff their currently working on. So asking questions outside of that scope tend to not get a in depth answer. Ideological reasons for going to war, and them starting civil war is fairly reasonable thing. When it becomes the active aspect of the game, thats when you'll get that question answered more in depth.
It seems like demons never have a chance to impersonate gods anymore because they don't seem to escape from the underworld besides at the origin of each goblin civilization, upon which they become the ruler. Was this change intentional?
In a similar vein, do you recall why deity-impersonating demons were removed as well?Quote from: Toady OneAll of the impersonation code is still there, so I suspect that one is just a bug that came up as a side effect of some other change, though I might be forgetting something.
You can totally get goblins without enabling two lowermost layers, as long as there's demons. They already escape the underworld before they exist, after all.Never managed to do it. Even jacking up the number of clowns, without the bottom layer they just don't spawn. I think that maybe disabling those layers overrides the number set for the clowns with zero.
Never managed to do it. Even jacking up the number of clowns, without the bottom layer they just don't spawn. I think that maybe disabling those layers overrides the number set for the clowns with zero.
In Fortress Mode will there ever be a way for the player to assign orphans to married couples? For example, babies or toddlers who have lost their parents to combat, accidents, or FBs?This seems like something dorfs should do by themselves, like marriage.
In Fortress Mode will there ever be a way for the player to assign orphans to married couples? For example, babies or toddlers who have lost their parents to combat, accidents, or FBs?This seems like something dorfs should do by themselves, like marriage.
If you're playing adventurer mode and you come across an artifact, will you automatically know it's name, or will it just be a "masterwork leather throng" until you identify it somehow?Appraisal skill could come in handy there. Otherwise the treasure hunter role is going to be reduced to hauling around piles of junk in the hopes of finding something neat. Indiana Jones knows an artifact cup when he sees one, as should experienced DF treasure hunters.
It could be interesting if the player raids some ancient abandoned fortress and picks up what they think is some random loot, only to meet a dwarf on the road who can identify what it really is.
Indiana Jones knows an artifact cup when he sees one, as should experienced DF treasure hunters.In fairness he had a whole lot of knowledge about the related myths. On face value a dwarven appraiser would pay little for that cup, as much as it'd upset the elves. Would be interesting if you had to do some library visiting and identify markings/inscriptions etc, would allow for scenes like that in the film. Makes me wish for adventurous Indy-like historian scholars petitioning to go off after some read about doodad.
Weapons, jewelry, and others kinds of artifacts that can be worn will be effectively worn by its owners? And furniture artifacts, will they be used? Or will they all be kept safe somewhere, or displayed? Maybe it will depend from owner to owner or situation to situation?
I bet not. This release, so far, is about world gen, and adventure mode and fort mode recognizing and making goals that their artifacts. Not that their also other objects.But it might happen naturally if Toady wants the game to recognise that an artifact crown's 'proper storage location' according to civ A is "on the head of the king". In which case he'd probably need to clean up crown and scepter usage a little.
There can be more than one artifact crown in a civ. Reminds me of a book I just read to my son, Caps for Sale.I bet not. This release, so far, is about world gen, and adventure mode and fort mode recognizing and making goals that their artifacts. Not that their also other objects.But it might happen naturally if Toady wants the game to recognise that an artifact crown's 'proper storage location' according to civ A is "on the head of the king". In which case he'd probably need to clean up crown and scepter usage a little.
So will the display cabinets and pedestals get their own zone, like statue gardens? And if so will dorfs actually go there? It seems like they lost interest in hanging out at statue gardens, dining rooms and zoos when the taverns release hit.I think they'll more then have the ability, but a typical dorf fortress population may not be that inclined.
So will the display cabinets and pedestals get their own zone, like statue gardens? And if so will dorfs actually go there? It seems like they lost interest in hanging out at statue gardens, dining rooms and zoos when the taverns release hit.I think they'll more then have the ability, but a typical dorf fortress population may not be that inclined.
Will we ever see civ specific positions given arms/armor? I always thought it odd to see the sheriff, militia commander,Don't they all have armour now since 43.04 "armour appropriate to roles" update?captioncaptain of the guard, hammerer, champion, or those randomly genned bandit positions completely unarmed. (If this was asked in previos FotF, I apologize)
Given the increasing number of bugs, lingering remnants of bugs from the last couple "major ambitious idea" updates, and the inevitable bugs this ambitious artifact release will create, do you plan to set aside an update for predominantly bug fixes?
I hope Toady just ignores this passive aggressive question, but everyone that hangs out here for some time knows that after a feature release Toady will always make various bug fixes releases, first fixing new bugs and later old bugs. Granted, not every bug will be fixed, but many are.
edit: You are old here. You should know that. You are just a troll.
every major feature release is followed by a bugfix release
Going back the last two version numbers and around 8 months of development, we've had 4 out of 11 releases that did NOT include ambitious Fun ideas to add new bugs. The next release is likely to continue that pattern.Yep, Toady should just abandon ambition altogether and spend the next couple of years fixing the bugs in his half finished game. Oh, but wait...that would be kind of rubbish wouldn't it? 8 of the updates you listed included bug fixes. That's pretty much 6 months of bug fixing. Plus all the bugs fixed during development (like lye).
This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?Yes. To some degree, its pathfinding. And there are also concerns of multitiles creatures being very easy to exploit due AI considerations of them understanding their surroundings.
This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?I think he has. At least I recall him mentioning that. Right now the only "creatures" are wagons but something like that is planed for big creatures (dratlas, monsters...). Over the challenges of doing so I couldn't know, only Toady, our mighty binarysmith could answer that.
He also talked about some test version with multi-tile quadrapeds lumbering about, so it's being experimented with at least.This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?I think he has. At least I recall him mentioning that. Right now the only "creatures" are wagons but something like that is planed for big creatures (dratlas, monsters...). Over the challenges of doing so I couldn't know, only Toady, our mighty binarysmith could answer that.
I agree with Random_Dragon that the cleaning up of recently introduced bugs has been lacking (and I basically asked for at least one more bug fix release before moving on earlier, just because it looked like most of those bugs wouldn't be dealt with, which is exactly what happened, unfortunately). While I don't have a problem with random old bugs being fixed (it's always good), I felt the number of new ones dealt with to be disappointingly few, as well as the total number squashed.
Will more mundane items be 'owned' by individuals and family entities? As a kind of juxtaposition to the granduer of stealing the holy artefact cake tin of Urist McRoyalBaker, and the ensuing ten year long World War of Doughs, it'd be interesting to see Jeff steal Roger's socks because his have all disintegrated or he's adamant that the colour blue compliments his toenails."Whose stuff was that anyway?"
Exactly. I expressed concern about how many bugs are being addressed, versus how many new ones are being created.
Exactly. I expressed concern about how many bugs are being addressed, versus how many new ones are being created.
By saying that more bugs are introduced than fixed without actually giving any evidence for it, yeah.
By saying that more bugs are introduced than fixed without actually giving any evidence for it, yeah.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but on the whole "more bugfixes" discussion I personally see no problem with the current level of bugs so long as game breaking bugs don't occur in more than 1% of games. This game has been effectively in alpha development (even if Toady himself isn't thinking in or using those terms) since 2010 with the 0.31 releases, which was preceded by effectively a public pre-alpha phase that ended with the 0.28 line in 2008 and a private pre-alpha that ended with the 0.21 line's release in 2006. Until we see a 1.00 line, demarking the start of a beta phase with all features implemented, it is actually counterproductive to push out more bugfixes than is required to maintain feedback levels on new features as they are implemented just as it's counterproductive to push out any real polish on existing systems and content until then (for the record I personally expect to see that in around 2030 or so at the current rate).
You'll be able to display any non-large object you like, and there'll be new thoughts for displayed items similar to the admiration of architecture.
QuoteYou'll be able to display any non-large object you like, and there'll be new thoughts for displayed items similar to the admiration of architecture.
Wanna bet playing a small corpse on a pedestal in a reanimation biome will cause shenanigans?
In any case, as much as I'm hoping Toady will take a break from the flurry of new features for a bit after this, I am admittedly excited to see this.
Stop with these passive agressive attacks.I don't think he is only speaking of this last sentence. There are plenty in the last pages, from you.
So, while everyone is getting understandably excited about displaying the corpses of their victims, Dwarven ethics (make_trophy_sapient) won't actually let this happen without modding, right?
Which kind of scenarios do you have in mind for starters (I'm guessing not all of them will be in right away)? Will they be procedurally created too right? Or it is a surprise?According to the not secret development notes, these for a start:
Various possiblities that guide or govern fortress activity: frontier settlement, religious site, prison colony, mining company, military citadel, roadside inn, secondary/future palace of the monarchToady also mentioned a while back that they had an underground focussed start planned out.
I know he mentioned that a while ago. What I ask if is all of them will be right away in the first release? Oh, I just thought on another question. Will starting scenarios have some kind of limits according to the context. IE a roadside inn will have a low pop cap and relative few military immigrants? Will prisons and military forts have a more official, orderly immigration? Will prison colonies have prisoners arriving in cages on wagons or beast of burden or at least escorted by military/police dwarves?Which kind of scenarios do you have in mind for starters (I'm guessing not all of them will be in right away)? Will they be procedurally created too right? Or it is a surprise?According to the not secret development notes, these for a start:QuoteVarious possiblities that guide or govern fortress activity: frontier settlement, religious site, prison colony, mining company, military citadel, roadside inn, secondary/future palace of the monarchToady also mentioned a while back that they had an underground focussed start planned out.
What are the exact benefits of being focused? What sort of penalties does the game inflict on dwarves and adventurers that are unfocused? (besides from the negative thought)
Does the "socialize" activity develop dwarves' relationships and skills?
Will there be more social activities besides storytelling and performing in the future?
Any plans for other decorational furniture besides display cases?
The second and third are not Future of the Fortress questions, they resemble something more like suggestions and unscheduled features: yes to both, no timeline available. That also applies to your unanswered priest question from the previous page.
Which is specifically what the suggestion forum does. Everything there goes on Toady's list. A month or two back he specifically said that stuff suggested here is more likely to be lost.The second and third are not Future of the Fortress questions, they resemble something more like suggestions and unscheduled features: yes to both, no timeline available. That also applies to your unanswered priest question from the previous page.
Asking Toady whether he has plans regarding an impending feature is suggestion-ish, but still useful if it provokes input regarding the dev's to-do list.
True. It would be better to ask what Toady's next plans are regarding the impending features that would support those ideas, and make the suggestion proper in the suggestions section.Occasionally a Suggestion thread gets to the point where a FOTF question is appropriate. "We have a lively thread going in the Suggestion forum about restocking aquatic creatures in the caverns, but it has polarized into a debate over whether a tree that falls in a forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound or not..."
What are the exact benefits of being focused? What sort of penalties does the game inflict on dwarves and adventurers that are unfocused? (besides from the negative thought)Using dfhack with a superskilled adventurer being Focused! raised my base accuracy with the same attack on the same target at the same difficult/square target from 13k > 23k, being Distracted dropped me to 9k. There is some amount of skill roll success rate but I couldn't track down where to quantify it exactly, but it feels like it is a similar size effect, call it -25% to +75%?
Using dfhack with a superskilled adventurer being Focused! raised my base accuracy with the same attack on the same target at the same difficult/square target from 13k > 23k, being Distracted dropped me to 9k. There is some amount of skill roll success rate but I couldn't track down where to quantify it exactly, but it feels like it is a similar size effect, call it -25% to +75%?
Toady has actually stated in a past devlog that there is a multiplier of all skills that goes from 50% to 150% based on how many needs that have been fulfilled, though usually being more moderate in effect.What are the exact benefits of being focused? What sort of penalties does the game inflict on dwarves and adventurers that are unfocused? (besides from the negative thought)Using dfhack with a superskilled adventurer being Focused! raised my base accuracy with the same attack on the same target at the same difficult/square target from 13k > 23k, being Distracted dropped me to 9k. There is some amount of skill roll success rate but I couldn't track down where to quantify it exactly, but it feels like it is a similar size effect, call it -25% to +75%?
Toady has actually stated in a past devlog that there is a multiplier of all skills that goes from 50% to 150% based on how many needs that have been fulfilled, though usually being more moderate in effect.
On the other side, a dwarf that has the balance of their needs satisfied will perform tasks more successfully (in addition to the positive emotions and stress reduction they get the moment a need is satisfied). Theoretically, the dwarf can go up to 150% and down as low as 50% in their effective skills, but in reality it'll be a much smaller effect either way -- it is difficult to fully satisfy every need at once (or impossible, if there are enough needs), and at the same time, needs don't become unsatisfied quickly and some are easily met.
True. It would be better to ask what Toady's next plans are regarding the impending features that would support those ideas, and make the suggestion proper in the suggestions section.Occasionally a Suggestion thread gets to the point where a FOTF question is appropriate. "We have a lively thread going in the Suggestion forum about restocking aquatic creatures in the caverns, but it has polarized into a debate over whether a tree that falls in a forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound or not..."
And guards, how will they work? Will they be expanded to guard other stuff (shops, etc) and will they be a feature in fortress mode too? Helpful to keep away the kobolds, I guess.
You can set up guard schedules to defend a burrow, so role playing that in a fortress can be done. However, there are no means to make areas off limits to either visitors or citizens (well, you can sort of do the latter with careful pain in the ass burrow juggling), so the guards would just stand around there watching the thieves make off with the valuables with current mechanics unchanged.And guards, how will they work? Will they be expanded to guard other stuff (shops, etc) and will they be a feature in fortress mode too? Helpful to keep away the kobolds, I guess.
It has been a while since I used it, but I think military squads can be given time-dependent "stand here" or "do that patrol route" orders. It might be nice to have locations (which should include the ruling throne room, whenever that gets added to player fortresses) have a guard number to which we can assign militia or fortress guards. The guards would then try to be inside the location during their assigned guard duty.
Somebody should take that over to the suggestion forum and flesh it out nicely. I just don't have the energy to find all the things that it needs to connect to.
Yes, I think everyone's aware of what can be done already. Hence the lime green question and quote of the development notes section on 'guards and traps' for this artifact release...You can set up guard schedules to defend a burrow, so role playing that in a fortress can be done. However, there are no means to make areas off limits to either visitors or citizens (well, you can sort of do the latter with careful pain in the ass burrow juggling), so the guards would just stand around there watching the thieves make off with the valuables with current mechanics unchanged.And guards, how will they work? Will they be expanded to guard other stuff (shops, etc) and will they be a feature in fortress mode too? Helpful to keep away the kobolds, I guess.
It has been a while since I used it, but I think military squads can be given time-dependent "stand here" or "do that patrol route" orders. It might be nice to have locations (which should include the ruling throne room, whenever that gets added to player fortresses) have a guard number to which we can assign militia or fortress guards. The guards would then try to be inside the location during their assigned guard duty.
Somebody should take that over to the suggestion forum and flesh it out nicely. I just don't have the energy to find all the things that it needs to connect to.
@Shonai_Dweller: It did seem Rockphed was hazy on the current mechanic, so it wasn't actually a comment on your post, which I find to be a relevant question.Ah, yeah. Forgive my grouchiness. Put it down to 'heat-addlement'.
Ah, excellent. Now I wish I knew whether the "exp gain" idea got into people's heads. I keep citing CDDA, so it's likely I wasn't the only one and somebody guessed that it did the same thing. :VThere was an attempt a few months ago to get a dwarf legendary in every single skill. Not just the fortress ones, as that was already done a while ago, but also the adventurer ones. They started as an adventurer, and they said that they were only able to gain skill while focused. I asked if that was really what they meant and if they were sure because I was extremely sure it wasn't necessary to be focused to gain experience, but they said that was indeed what they meant and that they had farmed some skills while not focused for a while and didn't gain any. I guess this is actually worth asking Toady about, because I've never heard any other mention of this or experienced it myself.
So, while everyone is getting understandably excited about displaying the corpses of their victims, Dwarven ethics (make_trophy_sapient) won't actually let this happen without modding, right?
According to the wiki, it's [ABUSE_BODIES] that controls whether or not a civ will do this. Dwarves lack this tag so they don't engage in this sort of behavior. The [MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT] ethic looks like it controls things like bone jewelry.
with display cases and pedestals, will intelligent creatures react to displays of body parts with emotions?[/color] display the heads of previous sieges sort of thing. something along the lines of displaying human A's head, and human A's relative breaking into tears and getting emotional mid siege
Ah, excellent. Now I wish I knew whether the "exp gain" idea got into people's heads. I keep citing CDDA, so it's likely I wasn't the only one and somebody guessed that it did the same thing. :VThere was an attempt a few months ago to get a dwarf legendary in every single skill. Not just the fortress ones, as that was already done a while ago, but also the adventurer ones. They started as an adventurer, and they said that they were only able to gain skill while focused. I asked if that was really what they meant and if they were sure because I was extremely sure it wasn't necessary to be focused to gain experience, but they said that was indeed what they meant and that they had farmed some skills while not focused for a while and didn't gain any. I guess this is actually worth asking Toady about, because I've never heard any other mention of this or experienced it myself.
Is there any kind of situation that can cause an adventurer to only be able to gain skill while focused? Because supposedly it's happened to someone, but I've never seen it myself.
Elves are at peace with wildlife. Why do wild animals still rampage in their sites?
Elves are at peace with wildlife. Why do wild animals still rampage in their sites?
Presumably they are mad at all the other animal-men denizens/animals that arent at peace with wildlife and summarily animal self defence applies in elven culture, so they will step in.
Are there any plans for adventurers to be able to tell how large an animal is relative to them? The wiki is great but it'd be nice to just look at something and know where it stands relative to my bird person.
Will miasma or an equivalent ever be in adventure mode? Will there ever be smells, death or otherwise, that make can make adventurers nauseous based on discipline, willpower or some other stat? Do NPCs use their sense of smell at all right now for figuring out if someone is sneaking nearby? If not will they eventually? Are there any plans to make items/foods/chemicals/potions/plants that can overwhelm sense of smell and make tracking/being tracked harder? Are there any other scent or tracking things planned for the thief arc?
I just realized dwarves in fort mode sometimes have things in their profiles about grunting when exasperated. Are any of these planned to be visible in adventure mode as actions when a character gets in a certain emotional range, or are they exclusively fort mode flavor?
Any plans for long distance teleportation within a single world/plane during the magical arc?
Will there be families/relationships for adventurers when you get into the family/law/etc arc?
Thanks for the answers as always, Toady.
Will we ever be able to visit a festival as an adventurer? If so, what update is it likely to fall under?Festivals outside of worldgen that you can take part in are part of the taverns arc that didn't quite make it in the last release. So, yes they're planned, but probably don't have a clear schedule now (like recipes and games).
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but
Will weapon racks and armour stands also be used as display furniture?
Maybe he need to fix weapon racks and armor stands to hold regular weapons and ammo in the armories first and that isn't in the scope of this release?With any luck, deciding to use armour stands and weapon racks as display items will make their bug fixing within the scope of this release.
Maybe he need to fix weapon racks and armor stands to hold regular weapons and ammo in the armories first and that isn't in the scope of this release?
Quote from: Immortal-DThe Work Orders update was truly fantastic. Have you given any thought to adding a similar quality-of-life improvement to the labors interface? Honestly, that is the only part of the GUI which I really feel I need a mod/utility to handle. Trying to manage the labors for more than a handful of Dwarves using the ingame menus is truly cumbersome.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAnd yeah Toady's mentioned replacing this altogether with...something else. Actually, would be interesting to hear if this 'something else' is any clearer yet or still waiting for just the right Strange Mood to hit before it gets looked at.
I know this is kind of a tangent but now with artifact weapons, do you see feasible a little rework for ranged weapons? Specially customable reloading time? This I think is important to differentiate crossbows from bows and blowguns.
Also, artifact clothing in fortress and adventurer mode, will be of any practical use? Will they be subject to wear and tear?
On a tangent (on what already is a tangent), what about leather size being determinative to the kind and amount of products made? Have you thought about making different size animals give off different amounts of leather? Different products employing different amounts of material or something else?
Which features in your long-term list are you the most looking forward to working on? Which feature in general do you think will be the most painful to implement?
Do you ever foresee a application of a UI window much like in the fortress mode side panel to help handle backlogs of quests (specific item recovery) that can be pursued in the world?
And possibly that specific fortress mode UI as a placeholder for giving instructions to go out into the world, by setting your own 'quests' such as this group of dwarves embarks on a quest to go build a hillock on the next door embark tile or lead so-and so army or join up with a bigger one etc, giving purpose to movement and leaving the map while still connecting you with the action with notifications on progress.
I recently did some science where I jacked humans' hostility values up to 100 and generated worlds. One thing I saw that was interesting was succession wars - sets of civil wars that all occurred following the death of a law-giver. Was that intentional? What causes it?
Quote from: FantasticDorfCan't rush quality but how's Threetoe's latest story coming along?Quote from: DirstThreetoe's stories are generally describing Dwarf Fortress as it is intended to look in the future. But has this ever gone backwards, with some implementation detail or even bug making its way into a story?
In the (far) future, will we see more blending between adventure and fortress mode or will they stay separate game modes ?
I mean by example not having to quit a game in fortress mode to start one in adventure mode, but switch out of your overseer position and simply either take control of one of your fort citizen/visitor or creating a character on the fly, or when visiting one of your fortresses, just switch to the overseer position of it at any time ?
will heroic items include anything in their description which details how they acquired that status, or will this need to be learned through conversations/legends/storytelling?
Is there any contingency plan to address native animal item thieves and whether goods stolen off a site by animal thieves can be found or reclaimed from the wilderness? (a generated lair for a troop of rhesus macaques for instance, be it a particularly large tree or some other kind of thing)
Would you mind putting the simple suggestions list on the site somewhere? It would be nice to know which tweaks are likely to be coming next.
Will stealing Holy Relics from a temple cause the thief to get cursed in the same way toppling statues in a temple transforms you into a Vampire or a Werebeast?
Will other adventurers gain reputation as they wander the world rescuing artifacts and such?
Also, I don't remember whether groups can give in to demands to avoid war? I imagine the huge goblin army showing at your door demanding you surrender "ShieldBattered the Shiny of Shinies, a wood bracelet menacing with spikes of Adamantine" so the chief's wife can wear it. Then if you actually send someone out to give the bracelet, they might leave peacefully. (Or decapitate the bearer and laugh at you and proceed with the siege, if they feel particularly cruel.)
Will holy symbols become more prioritized targets for groups with an opposing sphere of worship? Will other individuals/groups prioritize artifacts as well, such as fighters preferring weapons/armor over other items or dragons wanting objects made of gold?
Given how megabeasts are able of quite advanced interactions such as taking over sites, stealing artifacts (despite potentially lacking any bodypart that can grasp them) and being objects of worship, have you ever considered making them 'intelligent' in some way (whether [CAN_LEARN], [CAN_SPEAK] or whatever special tag's in store for interacting with mythic beings)? Do you have plans to expand beyond their being big dumb tameable animals once myth generation gets fleshed out and they get presumably integrated into it?
How extensively will non-player Adventurers hunt for artifacts?
For example, consider this scenario; A King sends out a NPC hero to retrieve an artifact ring from a Dragon's cave. However, the player steals the ring before the NPC hero can arrive. When the NPC hero arrives at the empty cave, will he just stamp his feet, swear a little, and return home? Or, will he continue on his hunt and track the player down? Do foot prints and witnesses come into play? Does the hero shake down the player for the artifact with that new bandit mugging behavior?
Any way we can get the UTTERANCES rules out of being hard-coded?
In Fortress Mode will there ever be a way for the player to assign orphans to married couples? For example, babies or toddlers who have lost their parents to combat, accidents, or FBs?
Will npc's knowledge of an artifact's location be tied to rumors?
Like, if someone is heading to plunder an artifact, and you find it first and run off with it, will they automatically come after you instead of heading toward it's previously known location, even if you didn't tell anyone you have it? Would npc's say anything if they saw you carrying an artifact? It would be neat if you could steal something and secretly hide it somewhere, making it lost to all but those who know where you put it.
Also, How would an npc treasure hunter react if they knew you're carrying an artifact they're after? Would they try to kill you on the spot, or mug you like bandits do, barter for it, or even just nicely ask you to give it to them?
Will the full range of quests be available to npc adventurers (beasts, bandits, war as well as artifacts)? What will npc adventurers be doing in between quests? Will they be building reputation on their own by raiding tombs, hunting monsters, travelling into the underworld and so on just like players? Or roaming from town to town until a hearth gives them a quest?
Also, how much of what they do will be abstracted? Will we actually get to run into them deep in a kobold cave somewhere as they hunt for artifacts if we're there at the same time? Will they be proactively going about their quests, or just hanging around until we go away and they can get on with things?
Will NPC adventurers ask other NPCs and possibly the player, to join them on adventures?
How robust is the rumour/information system when it comes to entities tracking the location of artifacts they want?
What I mean is, if npc adventurer group A is sent out to recover an artifact from a lair and they get ambushed/backstabbed there by a mean player adventurer deep underground who makes off with the artifact himself, how long will it take for the original entity to find out what happened?
Will they work it out upon discovery of the bodies by a later adventurer group, or will they have to wait until rumours reach them that I've actually got it (and can I prevent this somehow by 'hiding' the artifact somewhere)? Will the entity keep sending pointless excursions to the original lair in the belief that the artifact is still there?
Will entities who treasure an artifact they don't have in their possession at the moment take it personally if the player comes along and grabs it before they can?
Will individuals be upset if you have an artifact they want?
Will they recognize artifact theft? If you steal an artifact out of their site, will they despise you for it or come after you now, or will that have to wait until the law & thieving update down the line?
How do things become holy relics in world generation? Is each religious figure restricted to one artifact in their lifetime/after they're butchered? Can someone lose a pinky in life, become deserving of a relic later, and then their pinky bone is the relic or are they always constructed at someone's death? Can heirlooms or crafted artifacts become holy relics later on? Can holy relics become heirlooms for another entity? Will adventurers be able to create or influence the creation of holy relics? Will forts be able to produce holy relics if they have especially prominent temples, and would that have to wait until start scenarios?
If you're playing adventurer mode and you come across an artifact, will you automatically know it's name, or will it just be a "masterwork leather throng" until you identify it somehow?
Quote from: thvazWeapons, jewelry, and others kinds of artifacts that can be worn will be effectively worn by its owners? And furniture artifacts, will they be used? Or will they all be kept safe somewhere, or displayed? Maybe it will depend from owner to owner or situation to situation?Quote from: RockphedIn related vein, will crowns and scepters be properly used by their owners?
Will I ever be able to melt down a metal FB into bars?
Again, most likely is outside the scope but do you think to convert workshops into zones(carpenter workshop with tables, workbenches, tools, cabinets, chests, nails..), seeing you creates another kind of zone. Or will that take too much effort at this point to be a low hanging code-fruit?
Once you get to property and/or thievery do you forsee differentiating between how entities respond to stealing an object from someone vs taking an item off of their corpse? Obviously all thievery is weird in DF right now, but it seems really odd if some traveler goes off with a city guard one day and comes back in the guard's clothes that they wouldn't be hassled about it even if they can tell the villagers the story of the guard being killed by a night troll. Will there ever be concepts of/punishments for graverobbing beyond war if you steal a civ's artifact? What are some of the programming barriers, if any?
Will we ever see civ specific positions given arms/armor? I always thought it odd to see the sheriff, militia commander, caption captain of the guard, hammerer, champion, or those randomly genned bandit positions completely unarmed.
with display cases and pedestals, will intelligent creatures react to displays of body parts with emotions?
will display cases/ pedestals have a limit on what is placed in/on them?
Will more mundane items be 'owned' by individuals and family entities? As a kind of juxtaposition to the granduer of stealing the holy artefact cake tin of Urist McRoyalBaker, and the ensuing ten year long World War of Doughs, it'd be interesting to see Jeff steal Roger's socks because his have all disintegrated or he's adamant that the colour blue compliments his toenails.
Do display cases and pedestals have a quality value like other furniture? If so, is there any intent to, whether within the current new feature implementation or at some indistinct future point, have dwarf thoughts about incongruous displays (such as the equivalent of displaying a Faberge egg on some random poorly constructed Ikea shelf)?
Will there be a priest occupation in dwarf mode?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSo, while everyone is getting understandably excited about displaying the corpses of their victims, Dwarven ethics (make_trophy_sapient) won't actually let this happen without modding, right?Quote from: FantasticDorfIf the above quotation is true, aren't head spikes/nooses/horrible chopped up body displays basically goblin derived museum spaces meant to inflict negative thoughts deliberately upon people who witness them, but satiate goblins? How might other races prefer to display/(or not) their prized/valuable goods and decorations as culturally appropriate?
Seeing as fortress starting scenarios are coming a couple of releases down the line, will there be generalisation of this, so that, for example, a legendary swordsman could set up hidden mountain training grounds?
Also, do you ever intend on implementing different game speeds to fortress/adventure mode?
1. Will dwarven adventurers be occasionnally taken by strange moods?
2. How do you envision invasions for the sake of an artifact to play out in Fortress mode? Will there be a goblin spokesperson of some kind saying "We must have X" or will it be psychically understood by all dwarves that these specific invaders want specific artifact X? Should the player yield, how do you envision the delivery of the artifact? Will there be something like a diplomacy screen, a specific job "deliver artifact to invaders" or just a dump job coupled with goblins pathfinding to your artifact and wordlessly taking it away?
3. Will megabeasts, night creatures, bandits and non-goblin civs be able to demand an artifact as well? In the latter case, will there be diplomatic consequences involved?
4. Will single adventurers target your fortress for artifacts, showing up as visitors, hostiles or otherwise?
5. Assuming artifacts get stolen by animals like keas, do they get tracked by the game so that they could end up in another site?
6. Will the item type of the artifact bear any relevance to the invaders, in other words will they be as likely to demand a platinum war hammer as an elf bone earring, assuming both were crafted in your fortress?
7. Do necro books and named weapons in Fortress mode count as artifacts in that system, or will they eventually fall off the artifact list?
Will starting scenarios have some kind of limits according to the context. IE a roadside inn will have a low pop cap and relative few military immigrants? Will prisons and military forts have a more official, orderly immigration? Will prison colonies have prisoners arriving in cages on wagons or beast of burden or at least escorted by military/police dwarves?
Does the "socialize" activity develop dwarves' relationships and skills?
Will there be more social activities besides storytelling and performing in the future?
Any plans for other decorational furniture besides display cases?
What temple architecture changes are on the menu for this release?
Can you talk a little about point four under background changes (balance desire to display with guards/traps/etc.)? Are you going to overhaul traps at all, or will it just be cage/rock/mummy surprise for now? And guards, how will they work? Will they be expanded to guard other stuff (shops, etc) and will they be a feature in fortress mode too? Helpful to keep away the kobolds, I guess.
Also, talking of thieves, will artifact hunting adventurers be announced like kobold thieves, or will they operate more subtly, turning up like regular visitors, mercenaries/monster hunters or something?
Will museum zones/rooms be considered locations, and attract visitors?
Is there any kind of situation that can cause an adventurer to only be able to gain skill while focused? Because supposedly it's happened to someone, but I've never seen it myself.
Now that the game is 64-bit, would it be possible/feasible to store the physical/mental descriptions of historical figures to be seen in legends mode? Or when you look at their corpses?
What are the overall mechanics behind armor wear? What material properties are considered when determining damage, which are more important, and what armor/weapon tokens might potentially affect it?
Elves are at peace with wildlife. Why do wild animals still rampage in their sites?
Why don't megabeasts breed in worldgen anymore? The last time I saw it happen was like 0.34, and semimegas still breed just fine.
Are there any plans for adventurers to be able to tell how large an animal is relative to them? The wiki is great but it'd be nice to just look at something and know where it stands relative to my bird person.
Will miasma or an equivalent ever be in adventure mode? Will there ever be smells, death or otherwise, that make can make adventurers nauseous based on discipline, willpower or some other stat? Do NPCs use their sense of smell at all right now for figuring out if someone is sneaking nearby? If not will they eventually? Are there any plans to make items/foods/chemicals/potions/plants that can overwhelm sense of smell and make tracking/being tracked harder? Are there any other scent or tracking things planned for the thief arc?
I just realized dwarves in fort mode sometimes have things in their profiles about grunting when exasperated. Are any of these planned to be visible in adventure mode as actions when a character gets in a certain emotional range, or are they exclusively fort mode flavor?
Any plans for long distance teleportation within a single world/plane during the magical arc?
Will there be families/relationships for adventurers when you get into the family/law/etc arc?
1. Why does the world arbitrarily explode into massive amounts of war and reclamations after world gen ends immediately when world activation begins?
2. I may have asked this before, I am not sure, but do you plan to improve bards in the future, like for example will player bards eventually be able to "teach" people through apprenticeship their various poems and dances like the troupe leaders in world gen do, do you plan to allow the player to send members of their troupe to places directly and will people eventually tip you if you are performing in the street? Will "meed hall performer" eventually become something more then "you can just sleep here now" (it doesnt even show up in legends!)?
Will weapon racks and armour stands also be used as display furniture?
That reminds me...I can't recall if I've asked this, but what WAS your reason for implementing branches as their own separate item token BRANCH, instead of PLANT_GROWTH or some other pre-existing item token? Was there some odd bug that cropped up encouraging you to make a separate token, or was there some other reason?
Toady will you, at any point, have apocalyptic events within the game? I'm talking invasions of Angels/demons, angry gods, natural disasters, plagues and so on. If you do in fact have plans for these, how do you think they will be implemented.
Quote from: Random_DragonWhat are the overall mechanics behind armor wear? What material properties are considered when determining damage, which are more important, and what armor/weapon tokens might potentially affect it?
It's the same calculations used for the combat code in general. Overall momentum and relative shear/impact material properties are the important part.Quote from: Random_DragonThat reminds me...I can't recall if I've asked this, but what WAS your reason for implementing branches as their own separate item token BRANCH, instead of PLANT_GROWTH or some other pre-existing item token? Was there some odd bug that cropped up encouraging you to make a separate token, or was there some other reason?
Using PLANT_GROWTH would require an extensive raw rewrite, and that wasn't in the cards at the time. BRANCH is fine.
We're hoping to get some things along these lines with the myth release, including the end of the world entirely in certain settingsRagnarok Fortress! Yeah, can't wait. :D
Aw, no hint as to whether X_YIELD, X_FRACTURE, or X_STRAIN_AT_YIELD might be more important among those three?
STRAIN_AT_YIELD is not likely to matter for wear. FRACTURE should cause a lot more damage than YIELD, but I don't know how that specifically actually works.
STRAIN_AT_YIELD refers to how much the material has deformed once the pressure on it is equal to YIELD. YIELD is the pressure where it starts undergoing permanent deformation instead of elastic deformation. FRACTURE is the pressure where the material fails completely and fractures.
FRACTURE and YIELD are both in pascals, STRAIN_AT_YIELD is a dimensionless value (strain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformation_(mechanics)#Strain), parts-per-100,000)
Toady, to what extent do you plan to make magic procedural ?You should watch the GDC Talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8zwPdPvN10) from earlier this year (Toady's part starts about 9 minutes in). It should answer several of your questions even if it's not the complete version.
Will there be a sort of list of spells/effects hardcoded (or computed) or in a .txt file in relation to spheres and which have to be "found" (like the current scholar/knowledge system), or will this be randomized in each world, and if if this is the case, how ?
Will the player have a sort of "list" of magic spells that can be used in a fight (like you could use a Ballista), or will this be decided by the NPC wizard (like any other sort of weapon) ?
Will the magic be managed with a "Mana" system or a "Spell per day" ? Or any other system ?
I'm very curious of how you will make something really different from standard RPG magic with detailled spells that have some very specific characteristics.
Thanks !
Sorry for my terrible english. I meant, you are creating new new zones for other things (museums), and recently relatively speaking introduced temples and libraries.Quote from: LordBaalAgain, most likely is outside the scope but do you think to convert workshops into zones(carpenter workshop with tables, workbenches, tools, cabinets, chests, nails..), seeing you creates another kind of zone. Or will that take too much effort at this point to be a low hanging code-fruit?
Converting workshops into zones is a large project. I don't understand "seeing you creates another kind of zone".
FRACTURE is more important to damage--reaching FRACTURE leads to "tearing" while YIELD leads to bruising (if vascular and elastic) or denting (if nonelastic).
I mean, I did explain exactly what they mean. That's not what they're supposed to mean, that's basically exact meaning. STRAIN_AT_YIELD being more-strain-is-higher should've meant lower-is-better, yeah. TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD (for example) of 10000 means that an object pulled apart to its YIELD limit will become twice as long in the process; COMPRESSIVE will become half the size, TORSION twist 2π radians, SHEAR means that two line segments in the cross section parallel to the shear vector of the sheared object1 that could formerly be connected end-to-end to make a rectangle would now make a parallelogram such that the top-left corner of the parallelogram forms a right triangle with the bottom right corner and the top right corner2, IMPACT is completely ignored when above 50000, I don't know exactly what it represents.
1I'M SORRY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO UNJARGON THIS
2 seriously there's probably a better way to say that
Elves are at peace with wildlife. Why do wild animals still rampage in their sites?Have you ever seen a male and female megabeast of the same species live in the same site with the total number of megabeasts in the world less than the starting cap for megabeast population? Because that can be pretty rare. I never even saw any megabeasts breed in 0.34.
Why don't megabeasts breed in worldgen anymore? The last time I saw it happen was like 0.34, and semimegas still breed just fine.
Events that aren't seen by an escaping witness don't become common knowledge until a year later, I think, and are never passed around as rumors.Does this mean that we can't really get away with theft/murder scot-free? People will always learn of what happened in time? How do we hide something, then?
I've had roc and hydra dynasties set up before in 43.05 worlds.Elves are at peace with wildlife. Why do wild animals still rampage in their sites?Have you ever seen a male and female megabeast of the same species live in the same site with the total number of megabeasts in the world less than the starting cap for megabeast population? Because that can be pretty rare. I never even saw any megabeasts breed in 0.34.
Why don't megabeasts breed in worldgen anymore? The last time I saw it happen was like 0.34, and semimegas still breed just fine.
After the last interview (http://thestonedgamer.com/interviews/item/863-simulate-your-very-own-fantasy-universe-looking-at-a-decade-of-dwarf-fortress) noted DF has such details as interaction of the mucous tissues in eyelids on eyeballs, I finally came with some questions for FoF:
Was there ever some system of DF simulation that got later removed because on the second look it seemed to you "too much detailed"?
Which of the features currently in game is the biggest system that you see as "too much detailed, needs rework"?
I think things like economy don't qualify for the first question because it is still planned to be added back in some way.
After the last interview (http://thestonedgamer.com/interviews/item/863-simulate-your-very-own-fantasy-universe-looking-at-a-decade-of-dwarf-fortress) noted DF has such details as interaction of the mucous tissues in eyelids on eyeballs, I finally came with some questions for FoF:
Was there ever some system of DF simulation that got later removed because on the second look it seemed to you "too much detailed"?
Which of the features currently in game is the biggest system that you see as "too much detailed, needs rework"?
I think things like economy don't qualify for the first question because it is still planned to be added back in some way.
Was that noble position introduced for a little bit, armsdwarf or quartermaster or something. Supposed to assign gear to militia members. Broken and buggy as all hell, so toady removed it and now militiadwarves just grab their own armor. Its simpler this way.
Quote from: 90908Toady will you, at any point, have apocalyptic events within the game? I'm talking invasions of Angels/demons, angry gods, natural disasters, plagues and so on. If you do in fact have plans for these, how do you think they will be implemented.
We're hoping to get some things along these lines with the myth release, including the end of the world entirely in certain settings. It's completely unclear how it is going to play out though.
I'm picturing an scenario where after your fort crumbles you can't play fortress mode anymore since your race/culture or all of them are dead as result of some apocalyptic event.Quote from: 90908Toady will you, at any point, have apocalyptic events within the game? I'm talking invasions of Angels/demons, angry gods, natural disasters, plagues and so on. If you do in fact have plans for these, how do you think they will be implemented.
We're hoping to get some things along these lines with the myth release, including the end of the world entirely in certain settings. It's completely unclear how it is going to play out though.
Now this has me excited.
The myth generator screens actually seemed to leave room for that sort of thing, over on the right side it had adjectives like "lost" "doubted" "destroyed" and whatnot as I recall, I've got some of the shots I took from the video somewhere.
Like, what? Teaming up with Intel to make a DF custom CPU? oOBefore long you might need a quantum computer to implement your quantum stockpile.
Do ceiling fans even exist in British homes?
When the sliders for world generation are implemented, and 0 fantasy worlds are generated, containing only humans, will that mean that those worlds will be unplayable because they lack dwarves? Or will we, on those occasions, be able to play as humans? Or will the "dwarves" of such worlds actually be "medium sized humanoids, fond of the sun and industry" (humans)?Adventurer will be playable. But, yeah, I suppose you might end up with human 'dwarves' for Fortress mode.
Adventurer will be playable. But, yeah, I suppose you might end up with human 'dwarves' for Fortress mode.As scenarios and other site types get rounded out (forest retreats, etc.) the game might be able to cobble together a "fort" mode for non-subterranean critters. Phosphorus-powered undersea forges, anyone?
Toady mentioned earlier, that non-fortress site play probably won't be in for a while and in case of a completely random weird races world with no dwarves, one would inevitably be pushed into being a subterranean, fortress building type to keep Fortress mode going.
Yeah, eventually it'll all get there. It's in the long term notes. Just perhaps not with the initial mythgen release.Adventurer will be playable. But, yeah, I suppose you might end up with human 'dwarves' for Fortress mode.As scenarios and other site types get rounded out (forest retreats, etc.) the game might be able to cobble together a "fort" mode for non-subterranean critters. Phosphorus-powered undersea forges, anyone?
Toady mentioned earlier, that non-fortress site play probably won't be in for a while and in case of a completely random weird races world with no dwarves, one would inevitably be pushed into being a subterranean, fortress building type to keep Fortress mode going.
Do ceiling fans even exist in British homes?
Oh, thought of another one:
Will civilizations ever own artifacts? I know bloodlines can, but I mean like governments/institutions controlling art; the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, for example. On that note, will we ever have procedural flags, anthems, or dances that are unique to/associated with a civilization? Can you play someone the song of your people? I could imagine playing a national anthem for people that are currently at war with that nation would probably result in a bar fight.
Do ceiling fans even exist in British homes?
Toady One and Threetoe live in the pacific northwest of the United States, so I'm not sure why you are asking this.
Oh, thought of another one:
Will civilizations ever own artifacts? I know bloodlines can, but I mean like governments/institutions controlling art; the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, for example. On that note, will we ever have procedural flags, anthems, or dances that are unique to/associated with a civilization? Can you play someone the song of your people? I could imagine playing a national anthem for people that are currently at war with that nation would probably result in a bar fight.
Those are not close goals for the current release, so the most reliable answer you will get from Toady will be "yes, no timeline yet".
Also, some of those things are already implemented ingame, such as the flags, dances and lyrical forms. Given that institutions do not exist yet the way (I assume) you envision them, then there's no reason to improve on those features.
That could change as soon as Toady returns to the Religion and Law arcs, where maybe artifacts or other objects could be seized or controlled by a specific entity, but who knows how that might play out in the long term.
Lots of questions, I highlighted the main ones in greenLast month's FOTF Toady talked about labours interface and so on. Probably the Scenarios release will see some sort of shake up of the interface.
DEVELOPMENT
When will labors be overhauled?
How will the individual dwarf interface be overhauled?
Do you think these things will come about towards the end of DF's life? Towards version 1.0?
How long till the code supports full graphicsets, tileset overrides etc.? Is it envisioned in the future? Perhaps towards the end of it's life?
Do people in Britain wear suntan lotion?
Do ceiling fans even exist in British homes?
He wasn't actually asking the question as related to the previous sentence, he was just asking an unrelated question. :P
By the way, do people eat pears in Britain? :P
When the fantasy level slider is in place do you have any plans to keep some sort of dangerous creatures deliberately attacking the fortress even at low fantasy levels?
Ie. High-moderate fantasy we have the titans, megabeasts, weres, etc. Will anything scary attack at low fantasy level? Giant (enraged?) creatures maybe?
I know that fun stuff like sharks and whales are in game, but you'll only see them once in a blue moon. After cracking open the caverns, water spawns drop to nil due to cavern critters spawning in such large packs.It's only surface water creatures that are rare. Cavern ones are annoyingly common (annoying because they far too frequently decide to camp). Of course, the cavern ones are actually amphibious.
-Can you please explain why land creature spawns are preferred over water creature spawns?
-Can you say off-hand how much work would be involved to make ocean/lake critters more frequent?
Do people in Britain wear suntan lotion?
How popular is the 64-bit version of Dwarf Fortress compared to the 32-bit version?It think is quite valid and also interesting. Does Toady keeps track of the amount of downloads of each version? Given the trend of modern computing eventually having only a 64 bit version could become a reality. Way, way into the future anyway.
Sorry, if this type of question isn't allowed, please let me know, and I'll turn off the lime text.
If looking for statistics, why not the complete set, i.e. Linux and Mac versions as well (and any others, if there are any)?How popular is the 64-bit version of Dwarf Fortress compared to the 32-bit version?It think is quite valid and also interesting. Does Toady keeps track of the amount of downloads of each version? Given the trend of modern computing eventually having only a 64 bit version could become a reality. Way, way into the future anyway.
Sorry, if this type of question isn't allowed, please let me know, and I'll turn off the lime text.
If looking for statistics, why not the complete set, i.e. Linux and Mac versions as well (and any others, if there are any)?Yes, please. It might be easier to provide raw download numbers, and it'd be nice to have the additional data.
That would more likely show 'do you use dfhack/noob packs' rather than any preference for 32 bit over 64 bit.
That would more likely show 'do you use dfhack/noob packs' rather than any preference for 32 bit over 64 bit.It was a very different audience, but I recently had to distribute software to about ninety people with a mix of personally-owned PCs and Macs; only one asked for the 32-bit version. And I think that one was a 32-bit flavor of Vista on 64-bit hardware.
That would more likely show 'do you use dfhack/noob packs' rather than any preference for 32 bit over 64 bit.
I know I use DFhack just because I need mouse support. Having to use the directional arrow to move a cursor every single time is murderously slow and I can't stand it - especially since I like to use 'k' and examine my stuff all the time.
I know I use DFhack just because I need mouse support. Having to use the directional arrow to move a cursor every single time is murderously slow and I can't stand it - especially since I like to use 'k' and examine my stuff all the time.
Vanilla DF has mouse support. As long as the cursor's on screen, you can click and the cursor will move there.
In fact, the only reason DFHack has mouse support is because of DF's native mouse support.
It also has full mouse support in the military screen.
That would more likely show 'do you use dfhack/noob packs' rather than any preference for 32 bit over 64 bit.
I know I use DFhack just because I need mouse support. Having to use the directional arrow to move a cursor every single time is murderously slow and I can't stand it - especially since I like to use 'k' and examine my stuff all the time.
Another question, but more speculative:
Aside Adventurer and Fortress modes, do you envision having any other modes to play the game in? Or would future additions just vary the content of those two? (playing as a monster in adventure, building a town in fortress) Asking very much in the 'what I think now' sense.
Mods can already make creatures intelligent, so that's not too weird.When I said "raise by X" I was more talking about less civilised animals like for example wolves which is the normal X for the "raised by X" (saying?) thing.
You can pretty easily have goblins raised in elven culture or w/e already. Adoption simply isn't in the game right now, but AFAIK it's always said to be something reasonable when it comes up.
That would more likely show 'do you use dfhack/noob packs' rather than any preference for 32 bit over 64 bit.
I know I use DFhack just because I need mouse support. Having to use the directional arrow to move a cursor every single time is murderously slow and I can't stand it - especially since I like to use 'k' and examine my stuff all the time.
Another question, but more speculative:
Aside Adventurer and Fortress modes, do you envision having any other modes to play the game in? Or would future additions just vary the content of those two? (playing as a monster in adventure, building a town in fortress) Asking very much in the 'what I think now' sense.
Yes, well kinda. It depends how much of a different mode you'd consider it. Technically, you can build a town now in Fort Mode, the systems to recognize it as such are just coming in slowly, but the whole guests and tavern thing is a start.
Beyond that, TodayOne and ThreeToe have talked about, being able to play as any historical figure from World Gen. Even if this is a Ruler, and just rule the country. From what I recall, this was being done in the frame work of adventure mode, but being a Ruler of a country would imply a lot of different features that currently arent there for players yet. And that conversation didnt exclude historical figures, that happen to be monsters, but it was focus on none monsters.
And they have also talked about building up towns, starting up towns in Adventure Mode as well, in something discrete. Like you wouldnt jump to Fortress Mode to make your Adventurers town.
Beast men are fairy well established in fantasy genre.
The ANIMAL_PERSON creature variation does not alter the underlying creature's [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR] tag. So as of right now they are furry.
It would still be better to have some engravings and the ability to ask directions.
Markerstones around streetcorners would be nice or painted signs but that would need new decorations code right?
Can someone link me to the video?The myth generator screens actually seemed to leave room for that sort of thing, over on the right side it had adjectives like "lost" "doubted" "destroyed" and whatnot as I recall, I've got some of the shots I took from the video somewhere.
Is that the video of Tarn showing the prototype off? I had to stop watching because I was busy. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he mentioned somewhere that myths could become lost so that's a definite one, but I'm mainly concerned about the fact that he showed off a block of creation myth - feels like it'd imply there's only one creation myth per world, which is just not cricket.
It'd be great in Adventure mode to be faced with a bunch of different religions, each with codexes that contradict one another, making you unsure as to which is the truth, if any. Also that sense of suspicion if the god you worship even exists - or could just be asleep for a thousand years. It'd be Fun if you got fed up and renounced your god, only to be struck down for your impudence and disbelief. :D
Maybe, if there was a Prime Myth that every other religion took bits of and added their own nonsense, you'd have the option to try and collate all the historical and religious information you can to decipher common Myths and Events. New Adventurer Job: Historian. It'd certainly give you a reason to visit libraries and collect books. Maybe you keep finding this mention of a Dark Tower in different cultures, so you venture out to it and see what information could be stored there.
EDIT: Watching the video now. It does seem to imply different cultures will interpret the creation myth differently (depending on what they were associated with), but they do seem to share gods. My question was about whether they'd believe entirely unique creation myths, but this might work better. I could see this as a Zeus/Jupiter situation, where they just call things differently but have a similar root, so that's very interesting and plays more into the historian idea. One issue I have is that it doesn't seem to generate unique religions - just race-wide ones. It'd be cool to see sects and offshoots from big religions that interpret the creation myth and its gods differently. Like if some necromancers believe one god was actually a death deity and rewrite history to fit their view.
EDIT2: Finished it. Now I feel silly, so I edited my question a bit. Basically I just want to know if we can expect lies to be possible.
i got a quick question, why cant we implement a multiplayer and not have to use mods which sometimes dont work?
i got a quick question, why cant we implement a multiplayer and not have to use mods which sometimes dont work?
Because the multiplayer done in mods are hacky as hell and multiplayer is ludicrously difficult to implement into a project as deep into development as this one.
a shared adventurer mode world acting like a MMO that multiple people scurry around in, which doesn't sound as hard as it probably is if people just host a world on their own computers rather than zach and tarn having dedicated serversi got a quick question, why cant we implement a multiplayer and not have to use mods which sometimes dont work?
Because the multiplayer done in mods are hacky as hell and multiplayer is ludicrously difficult to implement into a project as deep into development as this one.
We had a game client that allowed us to remotely play the game on someone elses' computer. That was pretty damn fun. When we werent all fighting for control at the same time :P
On the topic of the new worldgen system in the works: are certain creatures in the game slated to be removed in order to better suit this system? I understand that mundane creatures like cats and dogs will probably be kept so that completely mundane worlds can be more easily created, but what of creatures like gorlaks, satyrs, etc? Will they be replaced with randomized creatures when fantasy worlds are created, or will they remain to some extent?
I imagine there would probably have to be new raw tags to define how mundane a creature is, like a value with a range identical to what the worldgen setting has, so you can define "this creature should only appear if the world fantasy value is between 10 and 99."
It would be entertaining to limit Grenlins to low fantasy levels (though maybe excluding zero) to properly reflect their role as Unexplained Phenomena in a "rational" world.I imagine there would probably have to be new raw tags to define how mundane a creature is, like a value with a range identical to what the worldgen setting has, so you can define "this creature should only appear if the world fantasy value is between 10 and 99."
Toady posted some example raws from the standalone myth generator test that had explicitly-defined minimum:maximum fantasy level tokens in the various creatures.
Can somebody link me the mythgen video?
Even better, gremlins on mundane settings become nigh on un-seeable even at close range.
(though taming a creature and summarily freaking people out with a creature that shouldn't exist is a bit odd)
5) Final question; you mentioned the HFS is gonna be more integrated to the world with the introduction of magic. Any chance we'll be able to create custom demons with modding? The tokens exist but they do nothing on user-defined raws.
My mod does have a bit of canon to it5) Final question; you mentioned the HFS is gonna be more integrated to the world with the introduction of magic. Any chance we'll be able to create custom demons with modding? The tokens exist but they do nothing on user-defined raws.
We can create custom demons as it is. All we do is set a creature to have underground depth 5:5 and they become demons in the underworld.
Given that creatures are going to be able to put in opt-out tags for creatures or items to prevent them from become subjects of the game-world mythology and to entities to prevent them from generating myths at all? I say this because in the case of modded creatures the generated mythology may be completely out of place given that their own canonical origins in the mod world are completely different. Also if magic and stuff are dependent upon mythology will it be possible to force certain outcome of various mythologies in those regards directly in the entity raw files without the myths having to actually be generated. Lastly how much control are we going to have over the nature of the mythology that is generated, can we for instance define a specific origin for a creature/entity so that when it's myths are generated this will always be the starting point?
When the gods forged the first life, their strikes were of such incredible force that even the forgotten embers possessed power beyond mortal comprehension. These embers, buried deep within the rock, imbue the surrounding stone with the dignity and vigor of a living thing. Fresh, hot embers are surrounded by Living Stone that can be quite dangerous if awakened by careless mining. The smaller embers have cooled leaving behind Hidden Gems where they otherwise would not be expected.
What do you mean by shady? Like a rapper? Or a gossip?
Are there plans to, in adventure mode, take up positions that are currently only holdable by npcs? I.E everything from bartender to King to Baron to priest? And if so how do you plan to implement this?
Do you have any change in mind for the communication system between people?
You mentioned a long time ago the possibility of using tones and intentions while you speak to another person as modifiers, like when you fight, which would be awesome by itself, but I would love knowing if eventually we will get a more robust system, highly tied to the psychology of dwarves (conversations change drastically between different people, etc.)
Keeping on this line, will we get more stuff that make our adventurer's personality matter more? For now, the only thing that changes between one or another is the needs you have, derived from your personality, but it doesn't affect interactions between beings at all, which I kinda expected
QuoteEvents that aren't seen by an escaping witness don't become common knowledge until a year later, I think, and are never passed around as rumors.Does this mean that we can't really get away with theft/murder scot-free? People will always learn of what happened in time? How do we hide something, then?
Was there ever some system of DF simulation that got later removed because on the second look it seemed to you "too much detailed"?
Which of the features currently in game is the biggest system that you see as "too much detailed, needs rework"?
I think things like economy don't qualify for the first question because it is still planned to be added back in some way.
Why aren't hospitals included in the new locations system? When they are included, will "chief medical dwarf" become an occupation instead of a title? Are there going to be other occupations in the hospital?
Regarding creation myths (though it'd apply to regular myths as well), two things:
Firstly, is there really only one belief system per race? I'd find it odd if every culture in the world possessed identical creation myths and beliefs, so will the system be able to generate separate religions? I highly doubt creatures of different cultures and religions would hold the same creation doctrine, after all. Religions splintering off/combining, and growing/shrinking in power could be interesting. Cults that don't believe in souls, or say that a different god created their race, for example.
Secondly, by 'fake myths' I mean, can it generate myths that are actually false? In the GDC video, you did mention you can have religion and myths without fantasy existing, but is it possible to generate false gods or magic while still having some of it be real? Like, two kinds of magic runestone exist but only one of them actually works; or two gods but one is just made up by a cult.
If so, could the player could set an option for "All true/Some true/All false"?
Given that the switch to 64 bit seems to be addressing some hardware limitations of the game, are there further steps planned in that direction? Like addressing CPU limitations?
Will civilizations ever own artifacts? I know bloodlines can, but I mean like governments/institutions controlling art; the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, for example. On that note, will we ever have procedural flags, anthems, or dances that are unique to/associated with a civilization? Can you play someone the song of your people? I could imagine playing a national anthem for people that are currently at war with that nation would probably result in a bar fight.
In the event of adventure-named artifacts, how will naming them be handled? Will they just use the old system of randomly naming a weapon they grow attatched to, or will the player be prompted to construct a name for it? Because the latter system is bad enough about creating "the spurting banana" levels of derp for titles and such. :V
How extensively (do you think) DF will need to be rewritten, code-wise? How extensively is it rewritten between updates?
What were the biggest updates in terms of features and code changes?
What was the easiest thing to implement? The most difficult? What did you enjoy/prefer? What do you hate/regret?
What do you intend to get rid of/replace that is currently existing?
What is the significance of the ubiquitous hex-sequence "D08A"?
When the fantasy level slider is in place do you have any plans to keep some sort of dangerous creatures deliberately attacking the fortress even at low fantasy levels?
Ie. High-moderate fantasy we have the titans, megabeasts, weres, etc. Will anything scary attack at low fantasy level? Giant (enraged?) creatures maybe?
-Can you please explain why land creature spawns are preferred over water creature spawns?
-Can you say off-hand how much work would be involved to make ocean/lake critters more frequent?
How popular is the 64-bit version of Dwarf Fortress compared to the 32-bit version?
Aside Adventurer and Fortress modes, do you envision having any other modes to play the game in? Or would future additions just vary the content of those two? (playing as a monster in adventure, building a town in fortress) Asking very much in the 'what I think now' sense.
Are we going to see anything with creatures gaining intelligence, for example, dragons growing wiser/smarter with age, gods granting random creatures intelligence (probably for no good reason like everything else)?
Also
Are we also going to see any "raised by X" scenarios and if so can that happen to the player before the start of adventure mode?
Are there any planned expansions to night creatures during the magic release, either the addition of new ones or changes to existing night creatures to make them fit in with the magic in myth generation? Will necromancers and bandit leaders be asking for artifacts, or ever go seeking them personally? If a civilization's artifact ends up at a necromancer tower do they understand how to siege that? Will vampire purges ever have the chance to go wrong and end with the vampire destroying a whole village or something?
What are some artifact effects that you are excited about adding?
Are creature size changes going to effect clothing differently (examples: cloth, silk, etc ripping apart from the size increase (possibly leaving wearable rags for your new size, if your size doesn't increase too much) and metal taking much longer to break apart most likely hurting the player in the process) anytime soon?
On a related subject, are you planning on making an effect for wearable artifacts that makes the artifact change size to fit the wearer?
Lastly, are we ever going to be able to wear clothing that doesn't fit? For example wearing a large robe/coat/shirt so you don't freeze to death if you don't have anything else.
Edit:Oh you can't forget the effect where the wearer grows/shrinks to the size of the clothes when worn.
Are red squirrel men (just as one example) covered in fur, resembling humanoid versions of red squirrels, or is the description intended to be a more literal one, with an ordinary human that just happens to have a squirrel's head and tail? ("A person with the head and tail of a red squirrel").
in certain cases it is possible to demolish structures by simply deconstructing them with a campsite. The method by which a campsite can overlap a structure is an edge case to say the least*, but the end result is still a hole in the ground that used to be an underworld spire, or a sacked keep, and so forth. Sadly these structures are still listed as being intact, but due to the permanence enforced on campsites they remain demolished. Would you happen to know if any of the changes you've made with temples/kobold sites, and artifact tracking would touch on things like the world being aware of campsites and events/changes made within them? Related to this would be things like a campsite tavern attracting customers, temples attracting pilgrims, and so on.
QuoteIt would still be better to have some engravings and the ability to ask directions.I wonder how easy that would be. You could always look up the mapdata and plot routes but would that be the shortest route or the intended route? Would the engravings have to be created on the fly when you enter a fortress / deep-fort or can they be precreated? (which i guess they could be if forts safe layouts like cities)
Markerstones around streetcorners would be nice or painted signs but that would need new decorations code right?
Given that now kobolds are now recieving attention, will their methods of acquiring goods/or domestic production lines be looked into? Given that all cave born kobolds become theives, whilst all town settling (abandoned/loosely overtaken abandoned towns) acquire unnatural town roles, as before, their entity were equipped spontaneously with weapons derived from ores for daggers etc, more domestic roles would also improve local kobold cave population upkeep if they could produce food on site and make it harder to penetrate with all the spare populace milling around, collectively stronger for skulking sieges also with more population.
Toady, you said that in the magic update, one of your big goals was to allow wizards to end up being able to make a new servant race with magic. My question is will we be able to control what exactly our servant race will look like?
How varied will the different magical effects be that the myth generator can churn out? Standard stuff like healing, levitation, resizing, teleportation, or maybe something more outlandish?
Because of the complexity of the magic arc and more specifically functions of the wizard towers being personal to a wizard's behaviour and objectives Site with appropriate chambers (laboratory, library, ritual, summoning, etc, Quests and tasks and duties (as seen in the development subsection "Wizards"), could we expect to see them involved into a seperate mode putting the player in charge (a adventurer scenario?) if they are not immediately a adventurer feature with overlapping fortress mode implications?
1) Are there any plans to expand on interaction with intelligent wild creatures in Fortress Mode? Right now, whenever you encounter something like a merperson, a plump helmet man, a troglodyte, a kea man etc, your only option is to kill them and have them stay in your refuse forever. Are there any plans for us to be able to perhaps communicate with these intelligent beings, perhaps teach them to leave the fort alone or even invite them to join the fortress as citizens? Since animal people joining civilizations is something that already happens in worldgen, this kind of interaction could serve as an extension which can be directly controlled by the player.
2) Related to the above, are there any plans on expanding on intelligent wild creature behaviour? Currently, they all act like unbutcherable useless animals, despite being able to speak and equip items. I mean things like animal men wearing clothes and carrying weapons, or troglodytes arriving to the fortress wearing loincloths and carrying wooden clubs for that authentic caveman feel.
3) Will we see the (semi)megabeasts receiving any buffs with the introduction of magic? Currently, they are rather non-threatening compared to forgotten beasts. And speaking of which, how will they fit into mythology? Can we assume they'll have larger roles in more magical settings?
4) Speaking of magical settings, after watching your GDC 2016 presentation, you commented on magic-less worlds not possessing dwarves, elves or goblins, which we could also see in the raw files you presented. Does that mean these magic-less human-only worlds will only be playable in adventure mode? Or are we *gasp* getting official playable humans in fortress mode, if only in this kind of world?
5) Final question; you mentioned the HFS is gonna be more integrated to the world with the introduction of magic. Any chance we'll be able to create custom demons with modding? The tokens exist but they do nothing on user-defined raws.
Would you consider making the lives of the DFHack and other tool creators easier somehow? It seems like if Dwarf Fortress had an init or command line option where it would print out the memory address/offsets of all the key structures, then the community would be on much easier footing to quickly catch up to DF releases. That wouldn't expose any proprietary code or be nearly the effort of implementing a full mod API, since all you'd need to add is print statements for requested structure memory addresses, right?
Given that creatures are going to be able to put in opt-out tags for creatures or items to prevent them from become subjects of the game-world mythology and to entities to prevent them from generating myths at all? I say this because in the case of modded creatures the generated mythology may be completely out of place given that their own canonical origins in the mod world are completely different. Also if magic and stuff are dependent upon mythology will it be possible to force certain outcome of various mythologies in those regards directly in the entity raw files without the myths having to actually be generated. Lastly how much control are we going to have over the nature of the mythology that is generated, can we for instance define a specific origin for a creature/entity so that when it's myths are generated this will always be the starting point?
There is some "rumor system" involving the discovery of the player's inns or even the entire fortresses?
Will the player's fortresses have the possibility of a dwarf or visitor being these "shadier" people?
I played a plump helmet man adventurer this day. I have to say I'm kinda disapointed that my adventurer cannot perform a dance nor play a (not wind) instrument. Sure he cannot speak, but dancing / instrumenting should still be possible.
Does dancing uses the CAN_SPEAK flag ? Could it be changed easily ?
Are there plans to, in adventure mode, take up positions that are currently only holdable by npcs? I.E everything from bartender to King to Baron to priest? And if so how do you plan to implement this?
I would guess the gobos can also extract rumors from kidnaped children and prisoners by torture (i hope so atleast) ?
With what Mel_Vixen just asked, will we be seeing NPCs lying in the game rather than just changing the topic or not knowing?
In relevance to future thief/shady person adventurer roles/careers, will playing a role of gathering intrigue be more valuable and perhaps profitable if you say were in the position to feed juicy information to a demon master who then uses that information in world generation to forumate attacks and use you (and accountability for truthfulness/competency) as their earpiece.
it's only directly from the main site (as opposed to dffd), but it's all I've got.
/dwarves/df_43_05_win.zip 53,426
/dwarves/df_43_05_linux.tar.bz2 7,835
/dwarves/df_43_05_osx.tar.bz2 6,648
/dwarves/df_43_05_win32.zip 4,247
/dwarves/df_43_05_legacy.zip 1,518
/dwarves/df_43_05_legacy32.zip 1,117
/dwarves/df_43_05_win_s.zip 584
/dwarves/df_43_05_linux32.tar.bz2 438
/dwarves/df_43_05_legacy_s.zip 158
/dwarves/df_43_05_legacy32_s.zip 158
/dwarves/df_43_05_win32_s.zip 125
/dwarves/df_43_05_osx32.tar.bz2 95
Quote from: Random_DragonIn the event of adventure-named artifacts, how will naming them be handled? Will they just use the old system of randomly naming a weapon they grow attatched to, or will the player be prompted to construct a name for it? Because the latter system is bad enough about creating "the spurting banana" levels of derp for titles and such. :V
I imagine it'll use the name construction screen, which makes the name your fault.
Am I reading this right? Will we be able to take the fight to the enemy?Eventually this will become a system to send out armies. For the artifact release, all that's planned is to send out squads to recover (and hunt for new??) stolen artifacts.
When armies path through your fort, do they show up? Can you create a map with a chokepoint, build a fort there and hold back the goblin tide heading for the rest of civilization?
I have a world debugging mode which is vaguely like being an observer-only deity, and something like that could eventually be incorporated, or be merged with an editor mode.Does anyone know where (if anywhere) Toady has mentioned this before? Personally I would love to advance the world without playing the game so "spectator mode" is very intriguing to me.
Am I reading this right? Will we be able to take the fight to the enemy?
Is food not rotting in stockpiles just a temporary feature? I've always thought that it was just a temporary placeholder until food preservation is expanded (with smoking and salting, for example), but I'm not so sure now because I didn't see anything in the dev notes.
Are Night Trolls in Fortress Mode planned? Things like Night Trolls invading fortresses to kidnap someone and such. Similarly, are Bogeymen planned to appear in Fortress Mode? Would they torment children and such, as they do in folklore?
Are Night Trolls in Fortress Mode planned? Things like Night Trolls invading fortresses to kidnap someone and such. Similarly, are Bogeymen planned to appear in Fortress Mode? Would they torment children and such, as they do in folklore?
You can already find night trolls in native DF fortress mode in cave sites that you embark ontop, technically you can find caves by editing files to make them show up on embark map. They have their own little house there, and you can send in your troops to fight and slay them there, though be warned they are strong and may overpower your starting 7 if unprepared.
I guess your question is more applicative to night trolls travelling in a mode where it is always day. much the same in saying boogeymen couldn't pop up against a dwarf alone chopping wood in the dead of night during adventure mode and detection being slower for threats as simulated.
The next release seems promising.I mean you could always just not give the artifact to them in the first place which would be less likely to have negative consequences. So in addition: is there any reason to actually give artifacts to questgivers and not just keep them?
With the artifact quests that are sure to appear in the next release, will our adventurers be able to simply kill the quest-giver and keep the artifact(s) they find for themselves? I want my thug characters to accumulate as much shit as possible.
You wouldn't gain any reputation if you didn't complete the quest. And that's pretty much the only point to quests right now.The next release seems promising.I mean you could always just not give the artifact to them in the first place which would be less likely to have negative consequences. So in addition: is there any reason to actually give artifacts to questgivers and not just keep them?
With the artifact quests that are sure to appear in the next release, will our adventurers be able to simply kill the quest-giver and keep the artifact(s) they find for themselves? I want my thug characters to accumulate as much shit as possible.
Misc item user is actually pretty harsh, even OP, when using artifacts, or at least it used to be. Not as super as when histfig migrants first became a thing, and came dressed like Mr. T, but still pretty strong.
Adding magic effects could be quite entertaining. That brings up an interesting question though..
Since magic is going to be based on spheres of influence, it can possibly make deities a more active force in the world besides just random curses for vandalism and profanination. Are there any plans for special moods for priest caste dwarves in fortress mode? It would be an obvious mechanic to get sphere aligned artifacts, where type of artifact would not be tied to the dwarf's skill base, but wholly on the alignment axis system, so that eg, a god of music worshiper would produce divinely empowered instruments, if they are completely devoted to worship. Currently, a dwarf selects an object class based on skill set, which determines which kind of workshop they claim. A new kind of mood, say "holy work", for dwarves with severe skill rust, and high experience in temple disciplines (suggesting dedicated priest position) could produce magical artifacts, without training a craft skill to legendary, (similar to " fey" mood), and allow proper object alignment and type based on deity. This could be made a little more interesting by weighing dwarf character traits, and some other features (like current emotional state) to influence and refine object type creation from the short list if sphere aligned objects and possible magical effects. The need for extensive skill rust, and high temple activity would make this a very rare mood type, which limits abuse. Do you have any plans for such a thing, and if not, what do you have in mind there?
Will completely non-magical worlds also not have things like caverns or the magma sea?Don't see why not. They are not really magical. They would be devoid of fantastic creatures but they should be still there, being real geological formations.
How will fortress mode remain challenging in a mundane world devoid of megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, werebeasts, good/evil areas, etc.? Is a mundane world intended to be a sort of casual/easy-mode version of dwarf fortress? The same goes for adventure mode, though not as much.You just have to look into our own world to answer your question
How will fortress mode remain challenging in a mundane world devoid of megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, werebeasts, good/evil areas, etc.? Is a mundane world intended to be a sort of casual/easy-mode version of dwarf fortress? The same goes for adventure mode, though not as much.You just have to look into our own world to answer your question
The slider of fantasy does only that, extract or add fantasy, it doesn't add dificulties. So the things you mention would get changed to diseases (black pest), economically-induced famines(once farming and the economy aren'r broken, this'll be a serious problem), devastating wars, etc.
Evil humans, human infiltrators, human gangs seeking holy artifacts, ambushes, invasions, thieves, revolutions, forest fires, earthquakes, volcanoes, buffalo stampedes, woolly mammoths, Yetis(?!)...life is dangerous for above-ground dwelling humans.How will fortress mode remain challenging in a mundane world devoid of megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, werebeasts, good/evil areas, etc.? Is a mundane world intended to be a sort of casual/easy-mode version of dwarf fortress? The same goes for adventure mode, though not as much.You just have to look into our own world to answer your question
The slider of fantasy does only that, extract or add fantasy, it doesn't add dificulties. So the things you mention would get changed to diseases (black pest), economically-induced famines(once farming and the economy aren'r broken, this'll be a serious problem), devastating wars, etc.
Assuming that the technological cut-off remains independent of fantasy slider, a no-fantasy world will become easy-mode (in a relative sense) just by taking into account the absence of things like dragons, forgotten beasts, werecreatures, necromancers, husking clouds etc. Calidovi asked a very good question. None of the things you mentioned wouldn't also be a threat in the fantasy world on top of everything else.
I don't think I made my point well.Well, no-fantasy can still be seen as an easy mode if the game doesn't intentionally make up for no-fantasy by cranking up the quantity.
WARS. Wars would keep the game challenging alone. In real life it didn't take dragons or zombies to make history utterly interesting and horrific.
I know you said once you don't consider yourself a good game developer.
Will you at any point hire some highly competentmonkeysdevelopers to improve the game's implementation, in order to improve FPS ?
Greetings from France ! :-*
I agree with most of the above. However, hiring an employee to do the coding is not the only way to go about it (and that would probably be harmful to the longevity of DF). You could use other approaches instead:I know you said once you don't consider yourself a good game developer.
Will you at any point hire some highly competentmonkeysdevelopers to improve the game's implementation, in order to improve FPS ?
Greetings from France ! :-*
Bonjour à toi aussi,
I think you don't understand how game (and DF) development work.
How you code is something very personnal.
If you are employed by a big company you use a lot of rules, way to work, in order to make sure everybody can read your code.
But if you are working alone, and especially if you are coding for a long time alone, your code will slowly be not understandable for everybody else.
That's the first main issue.
The second is that, when you write alone, you have a general plan of your work in your head. Like if you had the map of a place and remember it. You know this goes there, and then here, and then use this and this to make this, until this happens, etc...it's like a functional map of your game. You can produce it with some external tool, but it requises a lot of maintenance work.
Penetrating a program made by somebody else is complex. Things can be really really hard to understand, and take hours because it looks like archaic, or stupid or absurd. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is not. You have to grasp all the tiny details everywhere. Even if the code is correctly commented. But coding is also a pleasure. Adapting the code to "modern standards" will be painful and boring and takes months. When you work 16hours/day on a project and alone, you can expect it to be fun. At least.
Secondly, you have to understand Dwarf Fortress is huge. In mid-2014 it was something like 450k lines, and It's probably over a million now. Printed on A4 sheets (on both sides), it would be higher than you and put together it would be 5 km long.
Thirdly, hiring someone (who will be mostly useless for several months to understand all the game) is costly. Toady makes more money now than he used to make, but still : he is living from our donation. If he pays a coder, how will he live ? Actually what will happen is that the coder won't work 16h per day on it (obviously). To make as much work as he is doing now alone, and with the same efficiency, you'll probably have to hire more than 3 or 4 people. So you will need a LOT more money than now. For a result that will be VERY LONG to be at the same level than now.
Last, remember that firstly, Toady is coding because he likes to. It's his hobby. Good or bad, it's what he likes. This is a precarious equilibrium. But it's also a performance. More than 10 years on the same program ! If you change his equilibrium, it can be better, but it can be worst.
Are there plans for a more challenging 'normal' enviroment like impenetrable underwood (i.e. thornhedges, swamps)? Will large stacks of items (like wood, stones) be able to block floortiles?Toady has mentioned this kind of thing in the past. Here's a quote from DF Talk:
Toady One: The main thing there is up here in a lot of the parts of the Pacific north west where there's been logging recently and the trees ... there's not a whole lot of old growth forest left where I'm at, so there's a bunch of small trees, and when there are small trees there's a crapload of underbrush, and it's hard to go places; a lot of places you have to go around giant bushes and all kind of blackberries and that kind of stuff, you just walk through ... I don't want that to be super annoying, but right now in adventure mode there's a few scattered trees in the forest and they're little teeny trees but they somehow prevented everything but a few strawberry bushes from growing. And there are certain points where you should be walking through this brush and getting scratches all over your body, and mosquitoes ...
Brooke's Law: Adding people to a late project makes it later.If what the new person brings to the table has a sufficient value (such as useful knowledge/skills unavailable otherwise, or a long term commitment that results in a significant net gain) taking on a new person can be worth it. Given the time scale of the DF project more people should speed things up in the long run, but that hinges on both the ability to afford it (and I don't think donations are there yet), and even more on Toady's ability to stand becoming a part time administrator/manager without succumbing to loss of enthusiasm. I'd certainly not trade a couple of years of 1.5 times the current development rate for a premature termination of the project.
The reasoning is pretty much what Patrik mentioned about negative productivity, though I wouldn't call DF "late" as much as I'd call some of DF's fans impatient.
I didn't explain myself well enough before
As many of you have said, fantasy adds a lot of things, and all the things that happen in a non-magic world also should happen in a magical world(mundane things like wars, misery, hunger, etc.)
The problem is, that's not the hostility slider, that's the fantasy slider
In a fantastical world there are dragons, horrible creatures and sacrifice magic cults, but there are also fairies, healing potions, and a generally more advanced culture, in terms of technology (see 'The Witcher')
Magic wisemen means culture, knowledge and common sense, something that affects the world positively, resulting in less wars, better controled countries, etc.
That's very general and all, but it makes a point.
What I mean is that in a well designed system like the sliders, everything kinda equilibrates , and it's not about difficulty, but flavour, which you can decide how much you want, and that's totally cool
Thing is, bringing anyone for anything code related at this time would need several months at least of getting used to the code to even begin to have informed guesses on how to implement a new feature. They only way somebody can bring in something worth is if it's either a coding god or is willing to study the code for months for free and then work much overtime for not a great pay and that if Toady is even willing to share the code with anyone at a official, professional level.It's been said many times that "multithreading the game" is the equivalent of "making the game from scratch" (multithreading bits here and there may or may not help, I don't know). So you wouldn't need Toady to release the code to anyone, you just need someone to sit down and make a game like Dwarf Fortress but multithreaded.
What I think is most likely it's going to happen is that once Toady "finish" the code and is willing to share it or make the game open source then a swarm of enthusiasts will go through the code and possibly several forks of the game will appear. Perhaps then and only then multithreading will be a thing for the game. Or perhaps somethimg better is available then. Who knows if quantum computers will be practical by then... well just my weird thoughts.
Quantum computers (should they become reality) are a bit like graphics co-processors in that they're very good at a fairly narrow range of rather important problems (as well as trashing the banking system by rendering the current encryption scheme worthless), but not that good for general computing. Complete and accurate path finding would be a possible use for a quantum computing co-processor in a DF perspective, for instance. However, that hinges on whether DF can rely on one always being present or not.
Thing is, bringing anyone for anything code related at this time would need several months at least of getting used to the code to even begin to have informed guesses on how to implement a new feature. They only way somebody can bring in something worth is if it's either a coding god or is willing to study the code for months for free and then work much overtime for not a great pay and that if Toady is even willing to share the code with anyone at a official, professional level.
What I think is most likely it's going to happen is that once Toady "finish" the code and is willing to share it or make the game open source then a swarm of enthusiasts will go through the code and possibly several forks of the game will appear. Perhaps then and only then multithreading will be a thing for the game. Or perhaps somethimg better is available then. Who knows if quantum computers will be practical by then... well just my weird thoughts.
My points were about precisely the difficulties of Toady hiring someone. I guess is harder to convey a tone over text.Thing is, bringing anyone for anything code related at this time would need several months at least of getting used to the code to even begin to have informed guesses on how to implement a new feature. They only way somebody can bring in something worth is if it's either a coding god or is willing to study the code for months for free and then work much overtime for not a great pay and that if Toady is even willing to share the code with anyone at a official, professional level.It's been said many times that "multithreading the game" is the equivalent of "making the game from scratch" (multithreading bits here and there may or may not help, I don't know). So you wouldn't need Toady to release the code to anyone, you just need someone to sit down and make a game like Dwarf Fortress but multithreaded.
What I think is most likely it's going to happen is that once Toady "finish" the code and is willing to share it or make the game open source then a swarm of enthusiasts will go through the code and possibly several forks of the game will appear. Perhaps then and only then multithreading will be a thing for the game. Or perhaps somethimg better is available then. Who knows if quantum computers will be practical by then... well just my weird thoughts.
Nobody will, because nobody has the time. The closest you'll get is a multithreaded fortress simulator or a roguelike with a complex world neither of which are the total all-encompassing mess that DF strives to be. And, oh, people are already doing that so there's no need to change anything at all.
--edit
Don't you think a "coding God" with an interest in working for little/no pay on a fantasy simulator is more likely to, I dunno, write a fantasy simulator, than squat in Toady's flat trying to decipher his code? I wouldn't hire someone who apparently has no idea what to do with his talent. Seems like someone just as likely to walk off with the source code at the end of the week.
If you think about what a program does, and how a computer works, with concerted effort a really dedicated programmer could implement multithreadding as a whole series of binary patches to trap and redirect execution.I disagree with the assessment (unless "a series of binary patches" essentially means replacement of everything). To implement multi threading you need to protect data stores so access is blocked while the data items are modified, and you need to ensure modifications are performed in the correct order even when done by different threads, based on the correct version of the data (not old data available when the thread was started, later superseded by another thread), etc. This means you need administration to set the threads off to work with defined sets of data (as opposed the semi random state of a common store at various access times), as well as collection and integration of the results from the various threads into a new common state, and you may need to use several "pulses" within a tick. Micro threading, however, is a different thing that might be achieved by a good compiler or possibly through binary patches.
it would just be really hard, and nobody would want to do it.
If you think about what a program does, and how a computer works, with concerted effort a really dedicated programmer could implement multithreadding as a whole series of binary patches to trap and redirect execution.I disagree with the assessment (unless "a series of binary patches" essentially means replacement of everything). To implement multi threading you need to protect data stores so access is blocked while the data items are modified, and you need to ensure modifications are performed in the correct order even when done by different threads, based on the correct version of the data (not old data available when the thread was started, later superseded by another thread), etc. This means you need administration to set the threads off to work with defined sets of data (as opposed the semi random state of a common store at various access times), as well as collection and integration of the results from the various threads into a new common state, and you may need to use several "pulses" within a tick. Micro threading, however, is a different thing that might be achieved by a good compiler or possibly through binary patches.
it would just be really hard, and nobody would want to do it.
I know for a fact that the "dying > going to an afterlife > trying to make your way back" is at least a general sort of thing the game is heading towards, it's partially covered in the Cado story.
Myself I'm still hoping that it will be simple enough and agreeable to add an -o or --output-offsets=[range|list|/link/to/target/filename.format] type option.
@FantasticDorf: Question 2: It's already possible to settle in that area with time and investment. However, it seems that area is up for some serious rework as the good/evil gets reworked/replaced by spheres, so my guess is that the answer will be "We'll see how the rework pans out. Nothing set in stone yet", or possibly that some ideas are tossed around.
However, it will be interesting to see how the area/concept is reworked, as, frankly, it's a bit boring currently. Obviously, it's a significant challenge, which is good, but there's currently not much of a reason to go there except for bragging rights (to yourself or to others), as nothing interesting grows or lives there (as in "something you can domesticate" or otherwise get something unique out of).
Conquest/extermination/taming would be interesting if there's a reason to do it beyond it being possible to do.
Quote from: Eric BlankQuoteEvents that aren't seen by an escaping witness don't become common knowledge until a year later, I think, and are never passed around as rumors.Does this mean that we can't really get away with theft/murder scot-free? People will always learn of what happened in time? How do we hide something, then?
They don't end up blaming you -- it's just a hard problem to keep things completely secret from all the game's systems forever. The historical event becomes known, but the incident report and rumor don't get converted into reputation changes. It'd be ideal to keep track of who knows what about everything, but it's not feasible memory-wise. So you might see supposedly unknown events bleeding into artwork and conversations after a long while. There could be additional controls put into place, but it's all hard work for less return as you go.
Quote from: FantasticDorfIn relevance to future thief/shady person adventurer roles/careers, will playing a role of gathering intrigue be more valuable and perhaps profitable if you say were in the position to feed juicy information to a demon master who then uses that information in world generation to forumate attacks and use you (and accountability for truthfulness/competency) as their earpiece.
It certainly makes sense that being near some gears and levers of power wouldn't be bad for somebody selling information, though it's anybody's guess how all that is going to play out. The agents in this release will set the early stage for that kind of thing being possible though, and we're looking forward to doing more.
Color all that green if you want an answer.
Have you considered adding a 'Continue World Development' button in addition to the Legends Mode, Adventure Mode, and Fortress Mode tabs?Even if it doesn't 'put everything back in the box', it just advances time like when you start a fort/adventurer?
Have you considered adding a 'Continue World Development' button in addition to the Legends Mode, Adventure Mode, and Fortress Mode tabs?Yes and the answer was there's so many things it's not going to work. Though I guess the question right after this is still unanswered.
Have you considered adding a 'Continue World Development' button in addition to the Legends Mode, Adventure Mode, and Fortress Mode tabs?Yes and the answer was there's so many things it's not going to work. Though I guess the question right after this is still unanswered.
Putting things back in the box would be non trivial Toady said (as Putnam pointed out), but it should be possible to create a fortress-less fortress mode with an uncapped FPS (it might even be possible to do that using DFHack). However, that would probably progress the world rather slowly anyway.Is that worldgen "not working"? Sounds like worldgen being interesting to me. Sure, fortress mode could use a little help getting sieges from further away (which artifacts release will give you). But for those of us who play lots of fortresses and adventurers in one world...wars, revolutions, occupation, changing political climate...sounds excellent, not at all what I'd call "broken".
In addition to that, the world activation isn't actually working that well. During the two week embark period, the world becomes a mess of wars, site settlements, and site reclaims (which can mean the embark you selected carefully to get besieged by goblins gets a newly founded/reclaimed puny goblin site as the next door neighbor, rather than their big one => at most one or two pathetic sieges before the site runs out of bodies).
In addition to that, world activation civs seem to just fall apart over time. I had a 75+ year fortress, and by the end of it the strong goblin civ that originally attacked me (from a tiny site they lost after a few years, but still managed to send siegelets from after that) had fallen apart into consisting of only 2 goblins or something like that. Similarly, several of the other civs had fallen apart into the failed category, and the ones that remained were hanging by a thread. The sites remained with a lot of inhabitants, but most of them didn't belong to any civ anymore. My guess is that the sites had all freed themselves through revolts, but there's no mechanism to start new civs from them.
My worlds are usually pocket, but sometimes "small" or "smaller". In that particular world I probably had about a dozen civs (only one dwarven one). I fail to understand the comparison of 70-80 years in a fortress with one year in adventure mode, though, or, alternatively, why the world events of a year in adventure mode should compare to the two week embark period?
I'm not saying things are not happening post embark, just that the civs gradually fall apart. It probably takes a fair number of years to notice the decay of civs, though, and Toady would probably not see it in his tests.
Why 7 dwarves, a theory:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Why 7 dwarves, a theory:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The reason is Snow White
Point taken,
Now let's get back on topic.
If you enabled an envoy system you could easily contact those tribes with worthy fighters. This way you could send envoys with gifts and tributes, while getting some contracted mercenaries, with demands but prone fighting skills.
The diplomat has successfully delivered your gift of sweetbreads and ale, the tigermen of the hills of mourning are - pleased!
- Diplomatic status change - Open borders (This civilisation will now frequent your locational taverns)
The hostile (large carnivore modifier) lion men of the serene plains greet your diplomat and press that he speaks quickly
- Your dwarf decides to tell a story (with barely any stats, resulting in a pityful droning bore)
- The lion men are unimpressed and commence combat, your diplomat is struck down.
- Diplomatic status change - War
I was cruising around and i just stumbled upon this REALLY old comment.Point taken,
Now let's get back on topic.
If you enabled an envoy system you could easily contact those tribes with worthy fighters. This way you could send envoys with gifts and tributes, while getting some contracted mercenaries, with demands but prone fighting skills.
Question for toady - If animal people get any more kind of definition in the future law war and diplomacy releases, would you forsee using diplomats or volunteers to establish contact to foster friendly relations with future benefits, given that underground civilisations whilst having no real structure are still recognised as entities (behind the scenes in the program file logs where all the underground types are listed)Quote from: scenario 1The diplomat has successfully delivered your gift of sweetbreads and ale, the tigermen of the hills of mourning are - pleased!
- Diplomatic status change - Open borders (This civilisation will now frequent your locational taverns)Quote from: scenario 2The hostile (large carnivore modifier) lion men of the serene plains greet your diplomat and press that he speaks quickly
- Your dwarf decides to tell a story (with barely any stats, resulting in a pityful droning bore)
- The lion men are unimpressed and commence combat, your diplomat is struck down.
- Diplomatic status change - War
Alternative question
Do you hold any particular thoughts the outpost liasion being re-worked or summarily expanded in the future releases, given that the artifact update will allow dwarves to leave the map with purpose. ((!warning suggestion like content!) as to say you could literally send off a dwarf on a literal death-trip though thousands of miles of terrain to call for help of the dwarven army if your civ cares enough to even send it that far or even cares about your settlement falling in general without relying on a outpost liaison.)
I think that, instead of just sending him out, you should be able to act through your diplomat like you can act through your settlement leader for trade.
Just send them to a location. If they're interrupted, they're interrupted and you need to get your diplomat out of the situation. If they reach the intended destination, you can negotiate, view trade agreements and relations, check on ethical disagreements and artifact/relic conflicts, etc.
This information would go in the 'Civilizations' tab that already exists. The information is updated every time you visit a certain civilization's settlement.
I guess you could get more information with a more skilled envoy, but that seems like a bit much for now.
Generally speaking, everything that involves dwarves taking independent decisions outside a fort is pretty touchy
We'll actually get a taste of that in the next release with NPC adventure parties, but I think we need some several psychology updates to affect behaviour before its reliable
Apart from that, everything I read from your post amuses me deeply, please do a suggestion about it
Dwarf Refugee - M'lord i have travelled a long way, i bring a dire news that after their sacking of nearby villages the goblins are now at war and besieging my home province. I came as fast as i could.
Dwarf Monarch - Be at ease, those green savages will get what they deserve, what lies within this mighty standard of dwarven civilisation
Dwarf Refugee - Um, a moderately sized dirt fortress ontop of a aquifer, surrounded by evil forests and a small roadside tavern where a 1 armed tuneless bard sings in a duet with a mule, it is also infested with keabirds and nudist cannibal elf cult.
*The dwarf monarch squints for a moment, then leans over his chair to look at a inscription finely carved into their throne by generations of literate scribes because its easier since Ulrist the Illiterate accidentally signed off a mandate for '10 bars of iron made from pigs' during his short reign*
Dwarf Monarch - Its name?
Dwarf Refugee - Treehugger the night of solace
Dwarf Monarch - Dont trawl elf tongue into my court and try my patience, the province, not the mule.
Dwarf Refugee - Joint-Towers
*Joint towers - Excellent quality apple cider - 50 barrels a month is scribbled down, with a look of shock the dwarf monarch rises out of their seat suddenly*
Dwarf Monarch -Rally! We march on jointowers to defend our race and then celebrate!"
I guess what I said can be seen as suggestion talk, but I was hoping for it to be interpreted more as what I think to be an effective implementation of an envoy ability.
Somewhere down the line, do you think we'll be able to fully-domesticate animals for our civ? Either as an adventurer, or as a fortress.
Somewhere down the line, do you think we'll be able to fully-domesticate animals for our civ? Either as an adventurer, or as a fortress.
Somewhere down the line, do you think we'll be able to fully-domesticate animals for our civ? Either as an adventurer, or as a fortress.
Yeah that'll come up again eventually
Somewhere down the line, do you think we'll be able to fully-domesticate animals for our civ? Either as an adventurer, or as a fortress.
Yeah that'll come up again eventually
I thought this was already possible, it just took decades.
So the wiki says that no matter how long we train an animal, it will never reach the "domesticated" status, and as such the civ will never use it. If this is wrong, then someone should probably correct the wiki with an example and explanation like the one FantasticDorf gave me.
If you ever add a "finality" sphere, would a valid priest title for a god of finality be "the First Last"?
In a world where no one bats an eye at a title like Final Fantasy VII, the Fifteenth Last doesn't seem so bad.If you ever add a "finality" sphere, would a valid priest title for a god of finality be "the First Last"?
Is the title of their position "The First" or is that to signify that they're the first high priest of that god? I don't think I've seen "The Second" etc so it might be the prior.
It would get quite tedious having "The Fifteenth Last", I'd be wondering about The Last Last.
Given that cubic centimeters can be arranged in a variety of ways, are there any plans to add more descriptive tokens to creatures? I would like to know how tall things are.
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:3000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:168:15000]
[BODY_SIZE:12:0:60000] [BODY_SIZE:0:0:1000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:12500]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:30000]I have had always trouble picturing how multi-tile creatures would work
Like, I suppose combat and material degradation should be reworked first for it to work, you know, only being able to atack a dragon's head when he tries to bite you, powerful enouh enemies being able to destroy walls and terraform scenarios based on their strength and the wall's material, etc.
Will the sale of Artifacts become a part of either Worldgen or Fort/Adv mode? If so, how do you plan to implement this?Just looking off of how Artifacts are either holy, symbols of power, or heirlooms, I don't think it's likely that well-to-do entity merchants are going to have any business selling their civ's artifacts.
Whenever multi-tile creatures come up I wonder how they'd deal with the fact that most forts don't have ceilings higher than one z-level, it'd be kind of weird to make a bronze colossus crawl on all fours while it's going on a rampage. Or like, what if you just make your fort with only 1x1 entrances.
Presumably most creatures too big to fit in your puny door can damage the walls, albeit slowly enough that we can have an emotional scene with the civilians evacuating and the militia advancing toward the horrendous racket at the gates.Whenever multi-tile creatures come up I wonder how they'd deal with the fact that most forts don't have ceilings higher than one z-level, it'd be kind of weird to make a bronze colossus crawl on all fours while it's going on a rampage. Or like, what if you just make your fort with only 1x1 entrances.
If air quality is ever modeled it might become one reason to have higher ceilings. But that wouldn't stop you making a low entry. Anyway, if you're making a fortress it's legitimate to keep it unsuitable for giant killing machines.
Whenever multi-tile creatures come up I wonder how they'd deal with the fact that most forts don't have ceilings higher than one z-level, it'd be kind of weird to make a bronze colossus crawl on all fours while it's going on a rampage. Or like, what if you just make your fort with only 1x1 entrances.
If air quality is ever modeled it might become one reason to have higher ceilings. But that wouldn't stop you making a low entry. Anyway, if you're making a fortress it's legitimate to keep it unsuitable for giant killing machines.
How much can the law framework of a civilization change in time? If law can change, is it in the matters of the monarch or an individual site?
How much can the law framework of a civilization change in time? If law can change, is it in the matters of the monarch or an individual site?
I have had always trouble picturing how multi-tile creatures would workI was thinking about that a little while ago as basically having it be a swarm of creatures as different body parts with wrestling type linkages, with the upper body parts essentially flying but being tied to the ground contact points.
Like, I suppose combat and material degradation should be reworked first for it to work, you know, only being able to atack a dragon's head when he tries to bite you, powerful enouh enemies being able to destroy walls and terraform scenarios based on their strength and the wall's material, etc.
If only those three things were added to the game, the game would enter a new level of difficulty.
Imagine setting a long corridor-entrance in your fort, and an hydra breaks the door, and forces its head through the whole corridor, devouring your dwarves. Not only that would require new AI, but it should also reduce the hydra's mobility when atacking. There are just too many things to consider before it is added
Z+0
<O <O
====
<O <O
Z+1
O O
}[#] ==
O O
Z+2
\ o o
--:[#]DDDD=
/ o oD D
DDDDDDD
D D
The "severed part flies off in an arc" mechanic could take on whole new significance, as a "chunk" several tiles wide flies off and crashes into something.
I expect it would be quite spectacular, and add new dangers to close combat.
The "severed part flies off in an arc" mechanic could take on whole new significance, as a "chunk" several tiles wide flies off and crashes into something.
I expect it would be quite spectacular, and add new dangers to close combat.
Might take a few goes to get through something particularly dense like a cyclops's or bronze collossus's arm (even sperm whale men might be mighty tough, which begs the question would animalmen need a rework too?)
The bones would be MASSIVE, the arm comes crashing off
I think falling impacts are still kind of weird.
Logs falling from multiple z-levels note in the the reports "there is no force", but cave-ins decimate dwarves even from one z level under.
Multi-tile creatures sound very awkward to me, how would they be represented? Would it be restrictive to modders? would larger creatures simply take up two or four tiles instead of one?
Is there even really a reason for it?
Multi-tile creatures sound very awkward to me, how would they be represented? Would it be restrictive to modders? would larger creatures simply take up two or four tiles instead of one?
Is there even really a reason for it?
If I recall the bigger challenge with multitile creation is AI. Its very hard to make them appreciate their own size, and where they can or can't transverse. The brothers Tarn dont want to introduce dragons, have them trying to pass into a 1 tile wide area, and get poked to death with arrows as it wont consider to fucking go away.
Or most hilariously of all: it does make it into the 1 tile wide area, partially, stripping off the limbs and such, causing it to die afterwards."I can't believe I did that! Serious facepalm moment there... Oh dammit I can't even facepalm!"
That should depend on the creature type, no?
Giant octopus, for instance, can fit through any gap the size of its beak. It could squeeze down your hallways and extend a tentacle down a corner hallway. Possibly several.
At once.
bronze colossus = kool aid man
Just need crystal glass dense skin and fruit juice blood now i guess.
Thinking about it, if it was a material property factor as well, dark towers made out of slade would be the utmost safest place to hide because they are unmovable spare structurally taking it apart laboriously piece by piece, if a bronze collossus kicked it at full force it'd probably disjoint its leg.
Also if clowns are towering monstrosities (in which case the circus will have to be reworked) then either by the application of magic to change domestic or just map changes, they probably shouldn't actually fit in the top of dark towers, and they'd be pretty scary and towering over fortresses they are trying to invade. (Good question, how are 2 tile high creatures supposed to get up/down stairs without colliding with the stairs above?)
Do npc artifact questers follow, or actively seek out, rumours when tracing the whereabouts of an artifact?
Will they follow the rumours into dangerous places, so we can read about how some brave gorlak decided to attack a necromancer tower because a careless adventurer left his holy artifact there one day?
I mean, how well will they be able to follow the rumours? Will it be a case of giving up and going home until another rumour turns up when the artifact isn't where they thought it would be? Or will smart npcs wander over to the nearest hamlet to see if anyone saw what happened, picking up new rumours? Eventually giving up when they hear that some albatross-man adventurer dropped it into the middle of the ocean (or not...triggering a series of mysterious ocean drowning suicides scattered throughout Legends...).Do npc artifact questers follow, or actively seek out, rumours when tracing the whereabouts of an artifact?
That is one of the premises of the update, NPC parties Will seek out artifacts, your adventurers if you have them, or slide/contact into a fortress to get them
I mean, how well will they be able to follow the rumours? Will it be a case of giving up and going home until another rumour turns up when the artifact isn't where they thought it would be? Or will smart npcs wander over to the nearest hamlet to see if anyone saw what happened, picking up new rumours? Eventually giving up when they hear that some albatross-man adventurer dropped it into the middle of the ocean (or not...triggering a series of mysterious ocean drowning suicides scattered throughout Legends...).Do npc artifact questers follow, or actively seek out, rumours when tracing the whereabouts of an artifact?
That is one of the premises of the update, NPC parties Will seek out artifacts, your adventurers if you have them, or slide/contact into a fortress to get them
Some mechanic like this, as its based on behaviour from npcs, personalities should play an enormous factor too, so a rather inconsistent dwarf might stop the search at the firsts inclemences"I tell you, I was all ready to go after that artifact too. Whatever was guarding the Chalice of Mechanisms would have a heavily-armed band of mercs to deal with, not to mention my own crossbow and battle axe and shortsword (and a spear I secretly keep hidden in my sock). Maps of the dark fortress, a couple spies in place for intel, provisions for months in case thing take longer than expected. Got the whole troop riled up at the tavern, swapping war stories, planning out how we was gonna spend the reward money, it was glorious."
Thinking about it, if it was a material property factor as well, dark towers made out of slade would be the utmost safest place to hide because they are unmovable spare structurally taking it apart laboriously piece by piece, if a bronze collossus kicked it at full force it'd probably disjoint its leg.
Yes...that's why...I wrote a question in green text...to Toady.We kinda have to suppose a little bit here, as Toady hasnt given any specific information about that, that I know, of courseI mean, how well will they be able to follow the rumours? Will it be a case of giving up and going home until another rumour turns up when the artifact isn't where they thought it would be? Or will smart npcs wander over to the nearest hamlet to see if anyone saw what happened, picking up new rumours? Eventually giving up when they hear that some albatross-man adventurer dropped it into the middle of the ocean (or not...triggering a series of mysterious ocean drowning suicides scattered throughout Legends...).Do npc artifact questers follow, or actively seek out, rumours when tracing the whereabouts of an artifact?
That is one of the premises of the update, NPC parties Will seek out artifacts, your adventurers if you have them, or slide/contact into a fortress to get them
Q: Are there any plans to, eventually, give players a means to convert Evil regions (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Surroundings#Evil) to Neutral or Good?The evilness and savagery system is going to be overhauled, and Toady hinted that he'd like it to be something Sphere-based. But the question still stands... could a fort in a region of RAINBOWS and FERTILITY be strip-mined enough by player actions to turn into a region of METALS and BLIGHT?
Sir Flash-Heart the legendary human adventurer, slayer of beasts walks into your inn having heard of its excellent reputation for a good time and strong beverages.
Instantly upon entering, a few dwarves drop thier goblets in awe and flock in a mass to greet him, a little bemused he worms his way though the crowd to a table, they all settle down as they flatter the hero's ego and start up celebrations of double rounds. All the dwarves still round him pressure him for tales (mostly tall) until his mind goes blank and he changes the subjects to drinking songs. a goblin across the bar shrugs and silently murmurs to himself how he's seen more modest & better heroes with half the ego of that youngling upstart in his time and continues to down his drink grumbling.
Once the night is over and dwarves have gone to sleep/comatose vomiting on the floor, Flash-Heart creeps into your storage and steals your artifact sword, however he is caught by a impressionable child having been woken up by his tremoring footsteps on un-smoothened stone, the adventurer purses his lips and shushes before picking up a metal miniforge from a nearby bin, etching his name in it with the sword as a autographed gift to the child and sending the child off on its way filled to the brim with glee from getting a trinket and a new special toy before Flash-heart crawls over the walls to safety and freedom with his prize and next daring feat.
The next evening he constructs a tall tale on how he fought through legions of brutish feral dwarves dressed in adamantine with only a masterwork sock in the next human mead hall he rolls up to and frequents.
Q: Are there any plans to, eventually, give players a means to convert Evil regions (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Surroundings#Evil) to Neutral or Good?The evilness and savagery system is going to be overhauled, and Toady hinted that he'd like it to be something Sphere-based. But the question still stands... could a fort in a region of RAINBOWS and FERTILITY be strip-mined enough by player actions to turn into a region of METALS and BLIGHT?
I feel like I've asked this before, but can't recall getting an answer or not. In legends/asking about yourself it lists rumored/known protector of the weak and being told about you challenging various bandits/killing them/etc, but I've yet to see if this exhibits progression like hero/hunter/performer. Is there a great/legendary/famous/anything progression for "Protector of the Weak" fame?What did you even do?Thinking about it, if it was a material property factor as well, dark towers made out of slade would be the utmost safest place to hide because they are unmovable spare structurally taking it apart laboriously piece by piece, if a bronze collossus kicked it at full force it'd probably disjoint its leg.Bwahahaha, fear me, for I am Daturtharnas!Spoiler: Piece by piece eh? (click to show/hide)
I feel like I've asked this before, but can't recall getting an answer or not. In legends/asking about yourself it lists rumored/known protector of the weak and being told about you challenging various bandits/killing them/etc, but I've yet to see if this exhibits progression like hero/hunter/performer. Is there a great/legendary/famous/anything progression for "Protector of the Weak" fame?What did you even do?Thinking about it, if it was a material property factor as well, dark towers made out of slade would be the utmost safest place to hide because they are unmovable spare structurally taking it apart laboriously piece by piece, if a bronze collossus kicked it at full force it'd probably disjoint its leg.Bwahahaha, fear me, for I am Daturtharnas!Spoiler: Piece by piece eh? (click to show/hide)
2.I know its not something we can expect in a short (or medium)time, but we've been discussing Multi-tile creatures and I was wondering if with the fact that each body part, if big enough, ocupies several tiles, the modders could define each part (each full tile of 2x3x3) of that body part with different stuff (place certain organs in the lower part and other organs in the bigger part, or have complete tiles representing an organ, if they are proportionate), this could be very interesting as to make the game more realistic, as you could ''zoom in'' to represent parts of the body that get abstracted in the smaller version of those creaturesI'm all for more shape data in DF, but I don't think defining creatures tile-by-tile is the answer. The reason is that creatures vary in size (not to mention yungins growing up), and along several dimensions. A large quadruped with long limbs might be a full tile taller than the average for its kind. And someone might slap a giant creature variation on just about anything, and it'd be nice if it just worked. Conversely, some future version of DF might slice locations into tenths-of-tiles or whatever, and it'd be nice if the same system for ginormous beasts also applied to zoomed-in medium beasts.
And yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking about making hollow creatures (yeah, as the cool-aid man) to transport small people at a greater speed, just by being inside the creature
More specifically you can stand on a magma flow (after dropping water on it so you aren't swimming) or stand in hell and build a camp/deconstruct existing structures.I feel like I've asked this before, but can't recall getting an answer or not. In legends/asking about yourself it lists rumored/known protector of the weak and being told about you challenging various bandits/killing them/etc, but I've yet to see if this exhibits progression like hero/hunter/performer. Is there a great/legendary/famous/anything progression for "Protector of the Weak" fame?What did you even do?Thinking about it, if it was a material property factor as well, dark towers made out of slade would be the utmost safest place to hide because they are unmovable spare structurally taking it apart laboriously piece by piece, if a bronze collossus kicked it at full force it'd probably disjoint its leg.Bwahahaha, fear me, for I am Daturtharnas!Spoiler: Piece by piece eh? (click to show/hide)
I think he used a bug with player-made camps that lets you deconstruct world-made constructions
You can literally drop a whole fortress on top of the demon master in the last floor with that
2.I know its not something we can expect in a short (or medium)time, but we've been discussing Multi-tile creatures and I was wondering if with the fact that each body part, if big enough, ocupies several tiles, the modders could define each part (each full tile of 2x3x3) of that body part with different stuff (place certain organs in the lower part and other organs in the bigger part, or have complete tiles representing an organ, if they are proportionate), this could be very interesting as to make the game more realistic, as you could ''zoom in'' to represent parts of the body that get abstracted in the smaller version of those creaturesI'm all for more shape data in DF, but I don't think defining creatures tile-by-tile is the answer. The reason is that creatures vary in size (not to mention yungins growing up), and along several dimensions. A large quadruped with long limbs might be a full tile taller than the average for its kind. And someone might slap a giant creature variation on just about anything, and it'd be nice if it just worked. Conversely, some future version of DF might slice locations into tenths-of-tiles or whatever, and it'd be nice if the same system for ginormous beasts also applied to zoomed-in medium beasts.
And yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking about making hollow creatures (yeah, as the cool-aid man) to transport small people at a greater speed, just by being inside the creature
Actually dragonfire is hot enough to boil adamantine.But wouldn't adamantium be able to still block it? and if Dragon fire is un-buffed, then iron and steel can still block it(although in real life, steel armor + heat = more heat).Part Question, Part suggestion. If you to improve this, try making a new suggestion thread for it.
so, Toady, Why did you make dragonfire deadlier? It makes it less fun, because you used to have a few turns while bleeding to death to fight the dragon. now if you get hit by the dragonfire, you instantly evaporate. This is neither fun nor !!FUN!!. could you please make it so the dragonfire is as hot as it used to be, but also affects hit shields. It's ridiculous that wooden shields still block dragonfire. nether-cap shields should be made useful for fighting a dragon, as it itself will cool you off.
Wouldn't having the dragonfire not make creatures go poof, while also effecting shields that block it like other items (which basically went poof by themselves even before the change), be just as bad as going poof in the first place? As anything but a fixed-temp shield would just melt/evaporate in your hand and mean death.
I understand having dragonfire blockable by wooden shields is kinda wonky, but dragons would just = death without some way of countering the breath attack. At least for the moment, before the artifact/magic stuff is fleshed out and all that.
Not to mention Nether-cap would be great, as it would make you cooler as well, so the dragonfire has less of an effect. If a deep-elf were wearing full Nether-cap armor, but no shield, wouldn't he be invincible(from heat, as least)?
Realistically dragonfire is hot enough to start nuclear fusion and would probably turn the planet into a tiny star. At least until it ran out of fuel because there's not nearly enough easily fusable materials on Earth or an Earth-like planet to support being a star for very long. Toady went really overboard on the mythical materials. Adamantine pretty much breaking the laws of physics with how rigid and sharp it is, slade being denser than the core of the sun, and dragonfire being hotter than the surface of the sun (though not the core of the sun that's still far hotter).
You wouldn't gain any reputation if you didn't complete the quest. And that's pretty much the only point to quests right now.The next release seems promising.I mean you could always just not give the artifact to them in the first place which would be less likely to have negative consequences. So in addition: is there any reason to actually give artifacts to questgivers and not just keep them?
With the artifact quests that are sure to appear in the next release, will our adventurers be able to simply kill the quest-giver and keep the artifact(s) they find for themselves? I want my thug characters to accumulate as much shit as possible.
Also (at least before magic is introduced) most of the artifacts will be worthless (practically speaking) junk (like a lot of fortress mode artifacts).
Hmmm, from my various methods for getting to screw around with construction in sites that don't have the usual ambush interruptions I've advanced a few worlds across an entire game year in adventure mode which is much closer to the initial-two-weeks calendar progression world activation. Sites being founded, sites being sacked, conquered, pillaged, all sorts of stuff happening. How large are the worlds you're talking about and how many civs are involved?
I imagine keeping said artifact would result in adventures hunting you down and forcefully taking the artifact from you since they know."That hatch cover made of tin with the bands of cat bone and spikes of pine... I MUST HAVE IT! Oh wait, it has a picture of a kea on it, nevermind."
A bit suggestiony Imic but i like the overall messageSorry 'bout that.
Might a more structurally neat question be to rephrase it as "Toady, do you have any thoughts behind perhaps allowing modders to alter towns in different ways such as either buildings or even the material those buildings are made out of?"
Also [colour:limegreen] please.
removed redundant savage_tropical file -- will add replacement scorpion later
Back with DF 0.42.04 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.42.04), the "file changes.txt" stated:Quoteremoved redundant savage_tropical file -- will add replacement scorpion later
It looks like all the other removed creatures have been restored. But not the Giant Desert Scorpion. Question: Is the return of the GDS still planned? Or was it forgotten because, unlike the other savage_tropical creatures, there is no non-giant version? I ask because the latter seems to be a commonly-held belief. At least, when I ask other players about it, that's the response.
Back with DF 0.42.04 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.42.04), the "file changes.txt" stated:At least one forum member repeatedly demanded the return of the GDS again and again in every single thread where it seemed Toady might be reading until finally he either got bored or realised how obnoxious he was being. Since giving up there haven't been any new releases, so, no, I don't think it's the case that he forgot.Quoteremoved redundant savage_tropical file -- will add replacement scorpion later
It looks like all the other removed creatures have been restored. But not the Giant Desert Scorpion. Question: Is the return of the GDS still planned? Or was it forgotten because, unlike the other savage_tropical creatures, there is no non-giant version? I ask because the latter seems to be a commonly-held belief. At least, when I ask other players about it, that's the response.
At least one forum member repeatedly demanded the return of the GDS again and again in every single thread where it seemed Toady might be reading until finally he either got bored or realised how obnoxious he was being. Since giving up there haven't been any new releases, so, no, I don't think it's the case that he forgot.
trip to Brooklyn to give a DF talk (it'll be posted online)Will this be at PRACTICE 2016, or someplace that mere mortals in the NYC area can actually get into? :)
Are there any plans for bringing back old thematic demon lairs (diffirent for diffirent demon-related spheres), like the ones in old 40d version?
Finding memory structures itself isn't as fun as figuring out interesting things to do with them, assuming someone with specific ideas on which structures would be the most important/helpful, or even how to add in this export method/option from the dfhack team were to do so, would it be right to say that the main obstacle would then just be implementing the extra option to spit out an address > structure type file?
I noticed you said there are no explicit plans for expanding the night creatures in the magic release, however you did brainstorm night creatures "for all colors of the rainbow" at one point, are those still planned, or will the "night creature hunter" arc not get any love for awhile. One obvious missing thing is more interesting vampires, all the vampires are basically the exact same right now which is very conspicuous compared to the others, like werecreatures which are extremely varied, and even necromancers have slightly different zombie stats for each "type" (and the magic release will expand potential evil magic alot more) it just seems odd that vampires haven't been given as much love as the others especially given how prolific and varied they are in fantasy worlds.
1. Will we ever see megabeasts recruiting lesser intelligent creatures around them into some sort of faux militia (ex. a dragon recruiting kobolds to steal things for him.)
2. Where did your design for kobolds come from? I notice a lot of other people see them as being lizard/dog-like creatures despite them being more like small hairy men since they seem to match the description of the art for the one shown in kobold quest.
Is food not rotting in stockpiles just a temporary feature? I've always thought that it was just a temporary placeholder until food preservation is expanded (with smoking and salting, for example), but I'm not so sure now because I didn't see anything in the dev notes.
Are there any plans to improve brewery? In the real world, fermented beverages benefit from aging, gaining properties from the container they age in. Scotch being such a creature, as are many kinds of wine. An interesting way to make alcohol more dynamic would be an aging mechanic, which can be offset by incorporating an "angel's share" mechanic. Do you have any plans at all for something like this?
Are Night Trolls in Fortress Mode planned? Things like Night Trolls invading fortresses to kidnap someone and such. Similarly, are Bogeymen planned to appear in Fortress Mode? Would they torment children and such, as they do in folklore?
Talking of ruined libraries, does this mean that libraries will actually be ruined in the next version? Generally a ruined fortress at the moment will contain a perfectly non-ruined library (and trading post) while a browse of Legends shows that scholars have continued to take up positions at the library for hundreds of years after a forgotten beast trashed the rest of the place.
> Since you mentioned servant races being 'created to your liking' would that interpretively mean that zombies become re-classified as 'servants' rather than pure products of magical ability, and domestically around the necromancers tower would fulfill the usual duties of where the servant races would suffice? Summoning servants to all descriptions out of corpses sounds like a very convenient way of creating labour, especially since they are utmost loyal rather if rather dim than having thinking minds like intelligent beings.
and
> Would you consider slaves and servants to be within the same vein gameplay wise or differently? Abstract to magic, the slavery system would sound similar to a house-keeping wizards setup traditionally (to which in some respects wizard servants and regular slaves are the same made and obtained by different means) as to say if your civ approved it, you would have a flow of forced worker "servants" to obtain, and a warm-up to the more elaborated wizard servants in gameplay (which as you have mentioned is a little way off with all the customisation quirks to sort out yet.)
Quote from: Unknown-Figure1With the artifact quests that are sure to appear in the next release, will our adventurers be able to simply kill the quest-giver and keep the artifact(s) they find for themselves? I want my thug characters to accumulate as much shit as possible.Quote from: vjmdhzgrI mean you could always just not give the artifact to them in the first place which would be less likely to have negative consequences. So in addition: is there any reason to actually give artifacts to questgivers and not just keep them?
If an npc on an artifact quest gets the artifact but then is unable to complete the journey (because some wandering psychopath killed the quest-giver) do they hang on to it, or deliver it to someone else (family member or something)?
If they hang on to it and then later come to visit your fortress, will irate armies turn up demanding that you hand it over? Would that depend on the visitor's status (resident, citizen, etc) or would the artifact being in your location cause your site to become the current 'owner'?
And one more:
Can multiple quest-givers assign the same quest to various npcs/player adventurers? Will this result in massive fights in towns as npcs all try to be the one to return the artifact?
Oh, and:
Following on from the previous poster's thoughts, will npcs ever decide just to keep the artifact for themselves instead of returning it?
Quote from: wierdSince magic is going to be based on spheres of influence, it can possibly make deities a more active force in the world besides just random curses for vandalism and profanination. Are there any plans for special moods for priest caste dwarves in fortress mode? It would be an obvious mechanic to get sphere aligned artifacts, where type of artifact would not be tied to the dwarf's skill base, but wholly on the alignment axis system, so that eg, a god of music worshiper would produce divinely empowered instruments, if they are completely devoted to worship. Currently, a dwarf selects an object class based on skill set, which determines which kind of workshop they claim. A new kind of mood, say "holy work", for dwarves with severe skill rust, and high experience in temple disciplines (suggesting dedicated priest position) could produce magical artifacts, without training a craft skill to legendary, (similar to " fey" mood), and allow proper object alignment and type based on deity. This could be made a little more interesting by weighing dwarf character traits, and some other features (like current emotional state) to influence and refine object type creation from the short list if sphere aligned objects and possible magical effects. The need for extensive skill rust, and high temple activity would make this a very rare mood type, which limits abuse. Do you have any plans for such a thing, and if not, what do you have in mind there?Quote from: InfinityforceGreat question! I was wondering about priestly/noble classes functions with regards to spheres myself!
Looks like you beat me to the punch!
What advantage (if any) will spheres confer to nobility or priestly castes for example? And how will that affect civilisations?
Will we see a battle between state and clergy for the minds and souls of people? High politics? Religious law? Crusades? Will nobility be affected towards charity or cruelty, and therefore loved or hated?
Will completely non-magical worlds also not have things like caverns or the magma sea?
What's your stance on immortality / respawning ingame? -- Not as a natural ability coming straight out of the womb of course, but a power gained through a relic or a spell allowing the player character or other non-player characters to return continuously or a limited amount of times. I recall a story in which a nightcreature regrows from severed limbs which escape a pyre, but beyond this perhaps respawning trapped in another plane to be freed out of ritual
> Do you have any thoughts following up the myth generator establishing 'planes of existance' as places, about applying the same treatment as caverns to the underworld? For example, defining areas so that in the case that a portal was cast (one way there or back / two way) you could identify where you were broadly going to turn up, instead of randomly appearing anywhere in the game world potentially in extreme danger
&
> In the myth creator with adjustments or definitions to how demons come to be (be it spontaneous or methodically created from game settings such as the death of a mortal/particularly 'evil' mortal) will this affect the localised populations of demons in the underworld to the point where after a long amount of time you might actually destroy them all or steady the flow of them in a manner you can account for, allowing dwarves to colonise at that depth with time and investement.
I wonder, just as a rough estimate, what amount of memory would be necessary to implement a more expansive knowledge system, even just partially? Like perhaps you can have lots of more significant historical events generally known, or at most tied to whatever civilization/culture said NPC belongs, what position they hold etc., but for some smaller, more recent events, especially those related to the player (though I kind of see how making such distinctions could be difficult) the obtaining and exchange of information would be stored & simulated on a personal basis.
I imagine this could also tie in to a future release concerning laws and create cool new gameplay mechanics, where for example you could threaten or bribe a witness of a murder or theft not to tell anyone, but depending on how much they fear you, they might incriminate you anyway, or just tell some trusted friend, and this way the information might get out eventually anyway (or you could smack them on the head and hope they forget everything... lol). Hell, you could even implement spreading false information (possibly for both the player and NPCs?), which could open up a whooole lot of new possibilities (up to maneuvering entire civilizations into war based on clever lies told to important people).
At any rate, I'm asking because I imagine with the change to 64-bit architecture, there should be quite a bit more breathing room regarding memory, with many systems nowadays having 16GB+ RAM and its average amount is obviously steadily growing (and things like these could still be opt-out feature or tied to some slider controlling the meticulousness of information management). So once again, my main question: what would be your rough guess as to the requirements of such systems being implemented, and to what degree do you see it ever happening?
Is the fact that you start with 7 dwarfs some inside joke?
Question for toady - If animal people get any more kind of definition in the future law war and diplomacy releases, would you forsee using diplomats or volunteers to establish contact to foster friendly relations with future benefits, given that underground civilisations whilst having no real structure are still recognised as entities (behind the scenes in the program file logs where all the underground types are listed)
Do you hold any particular thoughts the outpost liasion being re-worked or summarily expanded in the future releases, given that the artifact update will allow dwarves to leave the map with purpose. ((!warning suggestion like content!) as to say you could literally send off a dwarf on a literal death-trip though thousands of miles of terrain to call for help of the dwarven army if your civ cares enough to even send it that far or even cares about your settlement falling in general without relying on a outpost liaison.)
do you have any plans to enable stills and/or kitchens to have detailed work orders, so I can make my dwarves brew/cook specific drinks or meals in the near future ?
Though the economy will be looked at in later releases, do you have any plans to deal with interactions between traders properly simulating trade or giving nation states item exchanges from both of their inventories (dwarf fortresses for example hoard loose goblin supplies from failed/dead attackers during wars that fell on their site, while traders pick up objects from player and non player fortresses) so that in time the 'generation' of objects for trade by tokens can be reduced and eventually commented out for production centres (scenario/mini/hillocks/fortresses etc) and loot as per supply for demand
Given that cubic centimeters can be arranged in a variety of ways, are there any plans to add more descriptive tokens to creatures? I would like to know how tall things are.
Will the sale of Artifacts become a part of either Worldgen or Fort/Adv mode? If so, how do you plan to implement this?
In the devlog an expansion of the law framework and divine law were mentioned. Do you plan for the law framework of a civilization to change as time passes? If law can change, is it in the matters of the monarch or an individual site?
i've noticed that particularly it mentions giant 'magical' eggs, hatching with relation to gods and pet ownership issues - Providing the magical effects (In a press conference a egg was described as a magic object not so long ago) are not varied would this imply that primordial beasts/forgotten beasts/resulting hatchlings could be a creation myth/magical object manifestable event and claimed (or summarily let loose/tamed) by a civilisation as a artifact object/posession?
Also across the ASCII rewards, both Japa's apemen and Gunslinger's night creature minions are based theoretical examples of transformative or using existing creatures as a seemingly literal base to create 'wizard' or magic servants, do all servants require living being to create or can they make them purely out of magic processes/inanimate reagents
Do npc artifact questers follow, or actively seek out, rumours when tracing the whereabouts of an artifact? Could you carry an artifact from place to place making sure to be seen each time and then laugh about the hapless questers in Legends later as they march from town to town? Will they follow the rumours into dangerous places, so we can read about how some brave gorlak decided to attack a necromancer tower because a careless adventurer left his holy artifact there one day?
...
how well will they be able to follow the rumours? Will it be a case of giving up and going home until another rumour turns up when the artifact isn't where they thought it would be? Or will smart npcs wander over to the nearest hamlet to see if anyone saw what happened, picking up new rumours? Eventually giving up when they hear that some albatross-man adventurer dropped it into the middle of the ocean (or not...triggering a series of mysterious ocean drowning suicides scattered throughout Legends...).
I feel like I've asked this before, but can't recall getting an answer or not. In legends/asking about yourself it lists rumored/known protector of the weak and being told about you challenging various bandits/killing them/etc, but I've yet to see if this exhibits progression like hero/hunter/performer. Is there a great/legendary/famous/anything progression for "Protector of the Weak" fame?
On the subject of identification/rumours/etc for things like artefact thieves/rescuers/Indiana Jones knockoffs; will everybody know exactly who's stolen what? Or will the immediate witnesses know precisely, but everyone else who comes into contact with the rumour be more vague/malleable - eg: picking from a list of people they know want that artefact, in their immediate group of contacts if they don't directly know, but can make a guess or have heard alternate names etc (I realise that's probably incredibly dense to code). Do artefacts feature in things like life goals now, 'Urist wants to obtain a copy/the original of Classic Hamlet' or does that remain under the surface until directly asked for?
at some point in the future, will people be able to mod on and edit sites?
Quote from: ThundercraftQ: Are there any plans to, eventually, give players a means to convert Evil regions to Neutral or Good?Quote from: DirstThe evilness and savagery system is going to be overhauled, and Toady hinted that he'd like it to be something Sphere-based. But the question still stands... could a fort in a region of RAINBOWS and FERTILITY be strip-mined enough by player actions to turn into a region of METALS and BLIGHT?
If worldgen adventurers are out collecting artifacts and fighting (/conflicting more regularly with) the monsters that guard them, is there a chance that a particular adventurer exalted by their rumoured heroic feats could make omnisciently super curious/same entity rumor aware dwarves be starstruck when they meet them in the future?
1.How much time do you spend working on DF each day?
2.I know its not something we can expect in a short (or medium)time, but we've been discussing Multi-tile creatures and I was wondering if with the fact that each body part, if big enough, ocupies several tiles, the modders could define each part (each full tile of 2x3x3) of that body part with different stuff (place certain organs in the lower part and other organs in the bigger part, or have complete tiles representing an organ, if they are proportionate), this could be very interesting as to make the game more realistic, as you could ''zoom in'' to represent parts of the body that get abstracted in the smaller version of those creatures
And yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking about making hollow creatures (yeah, as the cool-aid man) to transport small people at a greater speed, just by being inside the creature
3.How's Scamps doing?
Are there going to be more fame types like Treasure Hunter and Thief, for legit and dishonest acquisition of artifacts?
Are there any plans for you to be able to recruit adventurers in fortress mode to steal artifacts from other sites (or do other things, such as spying on other civs and assassinating people)? Would you be able to "hire" people by giving them weapons/lodgings/books of a certain quality?
Such as now DF has 64x bit version, will you use special optimization for this?
And other question, do you use something like PVS Studio or CppCat, Cppcheck? A lot of old bugs look like things that good static analizator can easily find.
Another incorrect question:
You are in a hurry when added to the destruction of clothing and armor? It looks as if there oceans of crashes.
And, normal question!
How will game observe gain of skills artefact-hunters? Lara Croft shouldn't be peasant, i think.
Toady, will NPC be able to lie to you whenever you ask something? If I'm looking for The Golden Goblin of the Fourth Age and ask somebody that doesn't want me to have it for any reason, will they be able to lie to me. "A bear running took it to the east, far away beyond the Muckelberry River a week ago" When in reality it was a four goblin band that took it to the north two days ago.
Will this be at PRACTICE 2016, or someplace that mere mortals in the NYC area can actually get into?
Are there any plans for bringing back old thematic demon lairs (diffirent for diffirent demon-related spheres), like the ones in old 40d version?
I'm not sure I understand the second question -- slaves and servants are different things, but there are specific rights/freedoms and so on you'd have to distinguish that can create all sorts of gray areas, etc. Hopefully the law/customs framework will set us on a sufficient path there, and the magic stuff would be tangentially related and slowly become more and more integrated with it.
I don't quite understand, but yeah, the planes from the myth generator are all supposed to be real places you can visit (unless that specifically doesn't make sense), with different ways of visiting them. There are technical issues that will make this not be the case on the first release (it's a rewrite on the level of the Z coordinate).
It already works that way in world gen (numeric and specific production and trade), though it is underutilized. The items you see in markets are drawn from numeric batches, and they can call out where they are from because they know. I'm not sure exactly if that's what you mean though. Eventually, we want that process to continue after world generation. There are various stacking issues that come from player items which we've failed to tackle so far, and there's also the matter of items being saved in files on the disk for certain sites which can add complications
Global variables can work like that, and we should have something there for next time.Is that the sort of thing to hyperventilate over for dfhackbros as I think it is?
guys i have a terrible memory
what exactly did toady update in the devlog
Global variables can work like that, and we should have something there for next time.It sounds like Toady is going to make things easier for the DFHack team.
2. We were mostly into them D&D-wise after the dog people but before the full turn to dragon people. They had properties of both. In our raws, they don't have hair and they lay eggs, but they aren't small lizard people. They look like the Kobold Quest kobold.Meph pointed out earlier that Kobolds have "mannerism_hair:hair". I don't know quite what that means, but Meph interpreted it as brown skin with hairs.
Is that the sort of thing to hyperventilate over for dfhackbros as I think it is?
It sounds like Toady is going to make things easier for the DFHack team.Yeah, it'll make things easier in the long run. It could be interesting to sort out at first, though, because a lot of our global names are just guesses (see here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121451.msg7240521#msg7240521)).
Global variables can work like that, and we should have something there for next time.It sounds like Toady is going to make things easier for the DFHack team.Quote from: Toady One2. We were mostly into them D&D-wise after the dog people but before the full turn to dragon people. They had properties of both. In our raws, they don't have hair and they lay eggs, but they aren't small lizard people. They look like the Kobold Quest kobold.Meph pointed out earlier that Kobolds have "mannerism_hair:hair". I don't know quite what that means, but Meph interpreted it as brown skin with hairs.
To me, they will always be fraggles raiding the gorg faddish farm.
It looks like it would be a major improvement, both in the long run and in the short one with the additional stuff that would be revealed. Conversion would be a mess (but probably a lot less so than the compiler switch), but for compiled code the compiler would flag all the things that have incorrectly guessed names (with the very unfortunate case of a guessed name accidentally matching an actual name of something else). For scripts, however, it might be worth the effort to create a tool that looked at everything that seemed to refer to DF data and flag those that didn't match anything in the correct structure.Is that the sort of thing to hyperventilate over for dfhackbros as I think it is?It sounds like Toady is going to make things easier for the DFHack team.Yeah, it'll make things easier in the long run. It could be interesting to sort out at first, though, because a lot of our global names are just guesses (see here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121451.msg7240521#msg7240521)).
Quote from: wierdTo me, they will always be fraggles raiding the gorg faddish farm.
If Fraggles had pointy ears they'd be just like Kobolds. Do you happen to know if Fraggles lay eggs?
I'm kind of curious how DFHack's names for things compare to Toady's names. I'd like to see a chart like that sometime.If Toady does export the info you can compare it against the current DFHack XML files, and even make a chart out of that comparison ;)
It looks like it would be a major improvement, both in the long run and in the short one with the additional stuff that would be revealed. Conversion would be a mess (but probably a lot less so than the compiler switch), but for compiled code the compiler would flag all the things that have incorrectly guessed names (with the very unfortunate case of a guessed name accidentally matching an actual name of something else). For scripts, however, it might be worth the effort to create a tool that looked at everything that seemed to refer to DF data and flag those that didn't match anything in the correct structure.There's no need to rename them all in DFHack. I meant that it would be necessary to figure out how Toady's names correspond to DFHack's, e.g. DF's "plot_info" is DFHack's "ui".
And now Toady forgets the scorpions even when I'm not the one bringing them up this time. Senpai will notice poor neglected GDS. ;w;Was there a question asked about them?
Oh yeah, green for the Toad: I used dfhack and checked the fame levels with some poking around, mentioned it before I think, but after sharing literally dozens of bandit kills/prevented robberies I was only around 8 or so of the 100 needed for "Legendary Protector of the Weak" which I confirmed is in by setting the value directly.
It looks like it would be a major improvement, both in the long run and in the short one with the additional stuff that would be revealed. Conversion would be a mess (but probably a lot less so than the compiler switch), but for compiled code the compiler would flag all the things that have incorrectly guessed names (with the very unfortunate case of a guessed name accidentally matching an actual name of something else). For scripts, however, it might be worth the effort to create a tool that looked at everything that seemed to refer to DF data and flag those that didn't match anything in the correct structure.There's no need to rename them all in DFHack. I meant that it would be necessary to figure out how Toady's names correspond to DFHack's, e.g. DF's "plot_info" is DFHack's "ui".And now Toady forgets the scorpions even when I'm not the one bringing them up this time. Senpai will notice poor neglected GDS. ;w;Was there a question asked about them?
Yar, in multiple areas, and had people greet me with the "a legend here, thank you for all you do" stuff on the street. Fame accumulation for some types is just really slow, protector of the weak, loyal soldier, and killer I think are all at a similar "1 per incident" rate, while performing, heroism, and hunting are on an "x per incident" rate with x=quality of performance/notoriety of beast/size of prey.Oh yeah, green for the Toad: I used dfhack and checked the fame levels with some poking around, mentioned it before I think, but after sharing literally dozens of bandit kills/prevented robberies I was only around 8 or so of the 100 needed for "Legendary Protector of the Weak" which I confirmed is in by setting the value directly.
I trust you as you play adventure mode a lot like I do, but you did tell people about your kills and wait for the rumor to spread right?
Not changing over to the official names means trading short term convenience for longer term maintenance hassles. Sure, it's possible to produce Toady's future output for every release and perform a comparison to the DFHack XML structures or Toady's previous version to catch changes and update the DFHack XML to reflect the latest exported data, but it would make more long term sense to switch from using the current XML files to using Toady's output. You'd still need to run a comparison to catch what's changed, in particular if things scripts use are removed, and you still need a brain (or many) in the loop to assess which plugins and scripts ought to be updated as things change to account for new things, of course.It looks like it would be a major improvement, both in the long run and in the short one with the additional stuff that would be revealed. Conversion would be a mess (but probably a lot less so than the compiler switch), but for compiled code the compiler would flag all the things that have incorrectly guessed names (with the very unfortunate case of a guessed name accidentally matching an actual name of something else). For scripts, however, it might be worth the effort to create a tool that looked at everything that seemed to refer to DF data and flag those that didn't match anything in the correct structure.There's no need to rename them all in DFHack. I meant that it would be necessary to figure out how Toady's names correspond to DFHack's, e.g. DF's "plot_info" is DFHack's "ui".
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do you have any plans to enable stills and/or kitchens to have detailed work orders, so I can make my dwarves brew/cook specific drinks or meals in the near future ?
Was there a question asked about them?
Back with DF 0.42.04 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.42.04), the "file changes.txt" stated:Quoteremoved redundant savage_tropical file -- will add replacement scorpion later
It looks like all the other removed creatures have been restored. But not the Giant Desert Scorpion. Question: Is the return of the GDS still planned? Or was it forgotten because, unlike the other savage_tropical creatures, there is no non-giant version? I ask because the latter seems to be a commonly-held belief. At least, when I ask other players about it, that's the response.
Edit: Whoops, you were talking about a different butchering bug, the link to Random Dragon made me assume you meant the inability to eat sapients regardless of ethics.
Looks like the butchery thing is down to all corpses which had can_learn having one of the flags which we have named as dead_dwarf set, which prevents their use and consumption regardless of ethics, toggling that off is sufficient. For reference it's the 8th flag under items.flags1, not sure if we got that name from Toady or not.
This also applies to things like taking control of a wild animal, say, a giant lion, and killing people to eat. Even after adding grasp tags to my teeth so I could use a tool to butcher my kills I couldn't eat them.
There is nothing to prevent two different names from pointing at the same address. Could keep the old names under DF.global and the correct ones under DF_official.global (or something more compact).Not changing over to the official names means trading short term convenience for longer term maintenance hassles. Sure, it's possible to produce Toady's future output for every release and perform a comparison to the DFHack XML structures or Toady's previous version to catch changes and update the DFHack XML to reflect the latest exported data, but it would make more long term sense to switch from using the current XML files to using Toady's output. You'd still need to run a comparison to catch what's changed, in particular if things scripts use are removed, and you still need a brain (or many) in the loop to assess which plugins and scripts ought to be updated as things change to account for new things, of course.It looks like it would be a major improvement, both in the long run and in the short one with the additional stuff that would be revealed. Conversion would be a mess (but probably a lot less so than the compiler switch), but for compiled code the compiler would flag all the things that have incorrectly guessed names (with the very unfortunate case of a guessed name accidentally matching an actual name of something else). For scripts, however, it might be worth the effort to create a tool that looked at everything that seemed to refer to DF data and flag those that didn't match anything in the correct structure.There's no need to rename them all in DFHack. I meant that it would be necessary to figure out how Toady's names correspond to DFHack's, e.g. DF's "plot_info" is DFHack's "ui".
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Not changing over to the official names means trading short term convenience for longer term maintenance hassles. Sure, it's possible to produce Toady's future output for every release and perform a comparison to the DFHack XML structures or Toady's previous version to catch changes and update the DFHack XML to reflect the latest exported data, but it would make more long term sense to switch from using the current XML files to using Toady's output. You'd still need to run a comparison to catch what's changed, in particular if things scripts use are removed, and you still need a brain (or many) in the loop to assess which plugins and scripts ought to be updated as things change to account for new things, of course.You seem to think this is exposing way more information than it really is. Only addresses of globals are involved here (and maybe their names), i.e. some stuff in symbols.xml. It would take more effort than it's worth to change DFHack's global names. Unless Toady renames globals frequently (which is unlikely because it would force him to do even more work), DFHack would just need a simple way to map DF global names to DFHack global names (assuming DF even exposes the names).
Ah, yes, if that's the case it's still useful info, but nothing to get really excited about, and my comments miss the mark completely.Not changing over to the official names means trading short term convenience for longer term maintenance hassles. Sure, it's possible to produce Toady's future output for every release and perform a comparison to the DFHack XML structures or Toady's previous version to catch changes and update the DFHack XML to reflect the latest exported data, but it would make more long term sense to switch from using the current XML files to using Toady's output. You'd still need to run a comparison to catch what's changed, in particular if things scripts use are removed, and you still need a brain (or many) in the loop to assess which plugins and scripts ought to be updated as things change to account for new things, of course.You seem to think this is exposing way more information than it really is. Only addresses of globals are involved here (and maybe their names), i.e. some stuff in symbols.xml. It would take more effort than it's worth to change DFHack's global names. Unless Toady renames globals frequently (which is unlikely because it would force him to do even more work), DFHack would just need a simple way to map DF global names to DFHack global names (assuming DF even exposes the names).
At some time in the future, Dwarves will be able to learn, craft and invent all sorts of recipes in a complex system like music, these will gain in fame and value over time. This was planned for the taverns release but was cut along with games and festivals (in-game as opposed to just world-gen) because of time and that it really needed the economy implemented to be worth doing anything with.Quote from: hanni79do you have any plans to enable stills and/or kitchens to have detailed work orders, so I can make my dwarves brew/cook specific drinks or meals in the near future ?
The actual recipes we wanted to do would likely eliminate work in this direction, though I'm not sure when we'll finally tackle them now.
Thanks for your answer Toady One :)
If I only knew what it meant :D Could someone elaborate ?
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This is basically all wrong.
Dead units are, in fact, counted as dead. They have a "dead" flag that is "true" when they die. The health screen not showing them as dead does not mean they're not actually dead.
Units have nothing to do with butchery. Items are what are being butchered. When a unit dies, it leaves behind a corpse item. Max explained exactly what's happening there but you seemed to simply ignore it and talk about something completely unrelated.
FantasticDorf has basically dumped a fuckton of random musing that I don't really think are at all helpful for fixing Toady's cannibalism, regression, nor most other bugs. Especially if this can be falsified by striking a human victom down verus letting them bleed out.
I've done both, your weird !!SCIENCE!! does not make my human tooth amulets return to me. ;
unit does not convert properly to being dead in status
when the fatal blow is dealt it premptively turns into a corpse item and is registered by the game as dead.
Its status as a unit remains seperate and holds onto anything manifest of it left in the worldYes, of course, this is very convenient and necessary for the game's animation and resurrection mechanics.
my point of the health system is that in confliction, everything's physical condition is limited to severe injuries leading to a death of the body, but not a literal death (death=true) of the unit ID to dispel it and release control. (under no conditions, even with poison are units 'struck down' in fortress mode where this applies', Arena mode is separate, i literally provided photographic evidence both in my response on this thread and in both bug reports)
Un-intelligent wild animals are a huntable class of creature to be hauled back by hunters and butchered and are made in precisely that way as to ignore everything else, which is why it is a dicstinction between pets not being slaughtered (despite being factional huntable creatures) and wild animals working seemingly fine but not dissapearing off the unit dead screen when butchered because of a lack of (dead=true) for its status.Simply not true. Butchered units and killed units both end up in the dead/missing screen just fine.
If you want irrefutable proof, wait for a member of your fortress to die/arrange a death, have a medical dwarf and by accessing a friend of that dead dwarf, jump from their relationship list on Z to view the dead dwarf's screen. Moving over to the health, there are traits associated to the level of decomposition such as inability to see from rotting eyes, unable to grasp and unable to breathe. To further re-iterate that this is not a static screen, and by manipulation post-death with letting it rot & setting burial zones, the states update for both health and holdings. Thoughts do not update because it only functions in a active body.Again, this UI is simply showing you false info because you are using it in an unintended way and using actual reliable sources will reveal that death did, in fact, happen.
And Randomdragon in my 'musing' i never actuallly claimed that bleeding out humans would make them usable, any death even slaughtering (full body destruction) does not properly facilitate, and thank you for proving further my method of it being a universal death feature. Its based on how you can buy objects from the caravan that are ethically controversial and use fine but appropriate to your site (human skin book on trophy ethics etc) but when the unit on the site is involved (as it has to be with butchery) it fails to work. This is not a problem with site ethics precisely, but objects made out of & produced from still belonging to the unit it was sourced from who has been destroyed but not died.They have died but not been destroyed, in fact. The unit sticks around, just dead (literally has a "dead" flag set, which cannot be seen in any part of the UI and must be seen with DFHack). It's totally a problem with DF simply not dealing with ethics the right way, there's no real concept of ownership with respect to butchery AFAIK.
All my 'musing' is based off observation and method, and in my bug-reports i have a save on the depot here (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12543) that explains with method examples which i hope to expand to greater scope. I have acknowledged Max's suggestive finding but I don't feel its as centrally relevant to the issue though it may be related.Your methods are flawed, as I detailed here. You're using the game's highly unreliable UI for your information.
I know perfectly well about the "missing upper body" thing, that's been around since 2010. I mean use DFHack to check the unit's unit.flags1.dead flag.
Your musings are based off of observation but you're observing based off of DF's notoriously bad UI which was never even designed to show you the things you're looking for anyway. The observations I'm basing my information on is actually delving into the game's runtime memory in order to determine what is actually, literally going on with no error.
But I have already expressed the game doesn't recognise the unit in all actuality as being dead. The unit's physical state is the recorded one, (else functions like tombs wouldn't work, and even so they work poorly) when it physically 'dies' and passes to the corpse state, but the actual status being abstract to the to the body in alive/death is causing the obstructions. That upper body damage bug is a flaw of the health system that basically scribbles all over the rules on what defines death, described by the 'cockroach dwarf' who remains active without a centre of thought , lungs sight or organs. (Most to nearly all required mandatorily by BP flags)
But I have already expressed the game doesn't recognise the unit in all actuality as being dead. The unit's physical state is the recorded one, (else functions like tombs wouldn't work, and even so they work poorly) when it physically 'dies' and passes to the corpse state, but the actual status being abstract to the to the body in alive/death is causing the obstructions. That upper body damage bug is a flaw of the health system that basically scribbles all over the rules on what defines death, described by the 'cockroach dwarf' who remains active without a centre of thought , lungs sight or organs. (Most to nearly all required mandatorily by BP flags)
And I've explained how the game's own UI is not an accurate representation of what goes on under the hood, which you continue to ignore and go on assuming the opposite of.
Did you see my edit, where I go over the post point-by-point?
Is there a plan to, eventually, allow players to create different types of adv-sites (Adventurer-created sites), aside from just Camps? Perhaps we could one day turn our own camps into a small Hamlet (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hamlet) or Hillock (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hillock), or maybe even a Lair (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Lair), Labyrinth (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labyrinth), Shrine (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Shrine), or Tomb (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tomb)?is there a plan to allow fort mode sites to become a Hamlet (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hamlet) or Hillock (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hillock), or aLair (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Lair), Labyrinth (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labyrinth), Shrine (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Shrine), or Tomb (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tomb)?
Is there a plan to be able to play Legends mode to create a Hamlet (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hamlet) or Hillock (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hillock), or a Lair (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Lair), Labyrinth (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labyrinth), Shrine (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Shrine), or Tomb (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tomb)? Okay, that's just being silly :DIs there a plan to, eventually, allow players to create different types of adv-sites (Adventurer-created sites), aside from just Camps? Perhaps we could one day turn our own camps into a small Hamlet (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hamlet) or Hillock (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hillock), or maybe even a Lair (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Lair), Labyrinth (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labyrinth), Shrine (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Shrine), or Tomb (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tomb)?is there a plan to allow fort mode sites to become a Hamlet (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hamlet) or Hillock (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Hillock), or aLair (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Lair), Labyrinth (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labyrinth), Shrine (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Shrine), or Tomb (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tomb)?
Thats interesting. What version was that and plugins were in place?It was 40.24 era, and Fell moods never checked ethics. Used gm-editor to revive Nish and then kept doing it.
The parts were strange object only which might have different specific rules because its not unforbidden (illegally owned id is not forbidden, just moved instantly to the refuse pile and ignored, so not ethic related) so the previous behavior of owning the parts may still apply. Everyone knows that by forbidding and restricting the selection of materials you can make dwarves only use the supplies that your provide for moods.
That trace unit id is pretty much if im reading it from your reply right Max the precise thing im talking about also with BP (if im not mistaking what im seeing again). If you want to go to the N'th degree, repeatedly between full moons cut off arms off a were-creature, and let them regrow every time they turn.
[EDIT] the fact that they are using the 'illegal' dwarf bone crossbow is a little odd, what are your ethical settings max? That might be a separate bug altogether if the game doesn't recognise weapon types to properly be ethically categorized when assigning them to military members via forcing them to pick up that weapon.
Thats interesting. What version was that and plugins were in place?It was 40.24 era, and Fell moods never checked ethics. Used gm-editor to revive Nish and then kept doing it.
The parts were strange object only which might have different specific rules because its not unforbidden (illegally owned id is not forbidden, just moved instantly to the refuse pile and ignored, so not ethic related) so the previous behavior of owning the parts may still apply. Everyone knows that by forbidding and restricting the selection of materials you can make dwarves only use the supplies that your provide for moods.
That trace unit id is pretty much if im reading it from your reply right Max the precise thing im talking about also with BP (if im not mistaking what im seeing again). If you want to go to the N'th degree, repeatedly between full moons cut off arms off a were-creature, and let them regrow every time they turn.
[EDIT] the fact that they are using the 'illegal' dwarf bone crossbow is a little odd, what are your ethical settings max? That might be a separate bug altogether if the game doesn't recognise weapon types to properly be ethically categorized when assigning them to military members via forcing them to pick up that weapon.
The ID creature is turned into a corpse before the ID is dispelled
I didn't say it was superfluous, just that the corpse item having the dead_dwarf flag set was the main block preventing ethics-allowed cannibalism, and the most likely cause of the old "adventurers can just straight up eat friends and family" behavior, but I don't have an old version to test if it was always set or not, though I don't recall it being active until recently.
I'm going to avoid replying to most of your reply to my reply to clear up one very important thing.The ID creature is turned into a corpse before the ID is dispelled
Nothing is "turning into a corpse". A new corpse item is generated on the point where the unit died and the unit continues to exist. There is no transformation going on anywhere.
You two are arguing semantics over what toady calls " a soul". The "soul data" is separate from the corpse item, which is why zombies work the way they do, and mummies work the way they do. Mummification is more a transformation as far as I can tell, while zombies are entirely new units created from corpse items.
Regardless, please discontinue. Somebody being wrong on the internet is not the end of the world.
Toady have you ever read a Terry Pratchett novel such as any novel from the Discworld series? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld and if so will it influence how you go about myth generation for your worlds?Yes, I think he's read Pyramids, or maybe Guards! Guards! IIRC the last time I asked.
This question has been bugging me for awhile.
Having [CAN_LEARN] prevents any creature which should be able to eat sapients from doing so. A corpse which dies with [CAN_LEARN] has the item.flags1.dead_dwarf flag set. Removing one before, or one after death is sufficient to change this.
As an outsider goblin you can not butcher and eat a dwarf. (Outsiders still adhere to dwarven ethic rules, you require REAL evil entity/alternative by modding as its dealt by a entity not creature basis)
As a freaking giant lion with a name I took control of via dfhack I could not butcher and eat a dwarf without removing [CAN_LEARN] or untoggling dead_dwarf.
Trolls have [SLOW_LEARNER] which I think prevents the flag from being toggled on death, I haven't checked specifically.
It should be an issue of ethics instead of 'all adventurers can eat any creature, including their own friends and family' as it was or 'no adventurers can eat sapients, not even goblins or elves who defeat their foe and canonically should be able to do this, not even wild animals which have been taken control of and have no ethics' as it is.
[ENTITY:EVIL]
[SITE_CONTROLLABLE]
[ALL_MAIN_POPS_CONTROLLABLE]Question for toady - Have you ever thought in the development process for the museum displays about perhaps using mannequins for BP representative clothing displays or training targets?
Toady have you ever read a Terry Pratchett novel such as any novel from the Discworld series? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld and if so will it influence how you go about myth generation for your worlds?So much so that you already asked it...
This question has been bugging me for awhile.
Quote from: Untrustedlife
Toady have you ever read discworld?
I think I read one of the books many years ago. Something Egyptish.
Quote from: TheBiggerFish
Have you considered reading more Discworld books?
I had a few more from when I read the pyramids one (Guards something I think and whatever came next), but that was ~a decade ago and I didn't read them. Then I didn't circle back around and don't really plan on it. It's hard to find time.
Soul data is held by DF.unit which is very wrong right now as i've mentioned before evidenced by this bug report (10059) (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10059) taking hold and messing up a lot of behaviour and functions.
Derail moved: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161408.new#newthanks. Its an interesting subject, but it shouldnt be here
@The13thRonin : I think Toady's reply will be something like "I will work on this during the Economy Arc".
@The13thRonin : I think Toady's reply will be something like "I will work on this during the Economy Arc".
Is that soon?
Toady have you ever read a Terry Pratchett novel such as any novel from the Discworld series? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld and if so will it influence how you go about myth generation for your worlds?So much so that you already asked it...
This question has been bugging me for awhile.QuoteQuote from: Untrustedlife
Toady have you ever read discworld?
I think I read one of the books many years ago. Something Egyptish.
Quote from: TheBiggerFish
Have you considered reading more Discworld books?
I had a few more from when I read the pyramids one (Guards something I think and whatever came next), but that was ~a decade ago and I didn't read them. Then I didn't circle back around and don't really plan on it. It's hard to find time.
No.@The13thRonin : I think Toady's reply will be something like "I will work on this during the Economy Arc".
Is that soon?
@The13thRonin : I think Toady's reply will be something like "I will work on this during the Economy Arc".
Is that soon?
It's been discussed a thousand times in various topics that could be found by simply searching and the answer in this particular case is "it is much, much, much harder than you think".
Making stuff optional is complexity in of itself. You've got to make sure all combinations work, or you get impossible-to-find bugs.
You get two different pathing algorithms for the multi-tile creature feature alone. If you use the same one, then disabling it doesn't optimize much.
Before this gets completely out of hand and turns into another long derail (so soon after the last one). He has started. Said so at that 10 year anniversary bash (video can be searched for).It's been discussed a thousand times in various topics that could be found by simply searching and the answer in this particular case is "it is much, much, much harder than you think".
Yes, it's harder than you think, but thats not really the question, the question is "is it not appropiate to start..." instead of waiting to the game reaches a more "finished" state in order of what Toady wants to add of gameplay and features and so on...
Bear in mind Toady's become a book writing, globe trotting, conference attending celebrity recently. As fans we like to assume this won't effect things and he won't do anything drastic to his schedule like start dating or something, but these things happen so it's really impossible to tell.
How come there are no wooden statues? Is is simply something that is so minor that you've never gotten to it, or do you have any other reasons for not including them? It saddened me when I weren't able to create wooden statues of weeping and suffering elves and trees (to place along the path to my trade depot).
How come there are no wooden statues? Is is simply something that is so minor that you've never gotten to it, or do you have any other reasons for not including them? It saddened me when I weren't able to create wooden statues of weeping and suffering elves and trees (to place along the path to my trade depot).
Are grown objects actually classed as twigs or logs in a certain narrative of elven ethics and grown nature magic? I guess twigs seeds and fruits wouldn't be much more different to livestock laying eggs/shearing livestock, it makes more sense to value the trunk of the tree as the 'body' and hence why elves dont freak out about camp fires etc since even they probably understand the sentiment to keep warm & safe from non-natural presences.The canon seems to be that elven "grown" items do not harm the plant in any way, similar to a fruit that dropped off of its own volition. Now, the fact that it was magically manipulated to form a wooden breastplate, and probably would not have dropped had the elves left it alone, requires a bit of cognitive dissonance.
A reasonable suggestion for why we don't have wooden statues is that if they are exposed to the elements & non-treated they'll eventually rot, simulating furniture wear for one object would warrant changing all the rest as a technicality.
Those fruit and berry eating birds are horrible, torturing those poor plants and fruits like that.Won't somebody please save the unborn tree children?
Warning! Graphic depictions of bird on fruit violence!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAlnVtKbPQ
The canon seems to be that elven "grown" items do not harm the plant in any way, similar to a fruit that dropped off of its own volition. Now, the fact that it was magically manipulated to form a wooden breastplate, and probably would not have dropped had the elves left it alone, requires a bit of cognitive dissonance.
'Driven by desperation as the deathly cold nights began to set in, permeating their feeble featherwood tunics, the elves of the evil glacier embark known as "The howling moon" in a desperate act, murdered in cold blood their musk ox to huddle up inside its warm corpse while the storm rages, many animals die in the frost yet the yeti's, the only good thing to come out of this trip are drawn in by the stench of death and are quickly assimilated by the fair-folk. The lingering re-animated corpses are soon reduced to bones in violent conflict as the yeti's continue their feast coming in from miles away in droves.
Knowing they surely face exile for such a act and inflicted with horrible psychotic guilt, under direction of the shaman the yeti's have been co-operative in raiding local dwarven caravans to sift through their abhorrent supplies. Clinging on the edge of madness the elves do not care, drunk on the last of what little wine they can lick off the ice laden cups they heave the heavy metal tools & proceed. As the cold overworld quickly dissapears while they begin a maddening descent that feels unnatural if not hypocritical to find the dwarves that dwell in the deepest depths for asylum they feel the cool blood as the rough edges of the laborious dwarven inventions cut into their unblemished hands like a thousand splinters given by the nature spirit from tainted goods, yet proceed. They can't help but feel their chins itch, as if unnaturally as a few loose course hairs breach the surface.
To their suprise eventually they find a immense mushroom forest teeming with life, with tears of joy they hit their knees before they are quickly eviscerated by a enormous rythmically undulating tarantula with a blade like tail that has been lying in wait for the source of the distubance, they commit a prayer that life pursues even in such a desolate place.'
Quote from: QyubeyAside Adventurer and Fortress modes, do you envision having any other modes to play the game in? Or would future additions just vary the content of those two? (playing as a monster in adventure, building a town in fortress) Asking very much in the 'what I think now' sense.
We had a bunch of ideas on the old dev page, but I'm not sure that's the way things are going. Old items like "play a monster!" seem now like just tweaking how elephant man adventurers are regarded by others. There could be some things in the more distant future that don't quite fit the current two paradigms, like playing a deity, but even that could just be seen as some amped up form of adv/dwf mode (like playing a powerful wizard). I have a world debugging mode which is vaguely like being an observer-only deity, and something like that could eventually be incorporated, or be merged with an editor mode.
But for something like starting a new specific game mode where the title screen would say "Dwarf Fortress"/"Human Town"/"Adventurer"... perhaps that isn't in the cards so much now? The specific ordered events which made the early dwarf mode "dwarf mode" are something the game is leaning away from (stuff like autumn caravans and timed invasions and barony triggers), and we're going to see some new ways of thinking when the embark scenarios come up. It might be possible that some severe blending happens at that point, especially as the game starts to appreciate more and more the realities of worldgen, like there being human populations at dwarven hillocks and all that. "Human town" mode might creep up on us that way -- we've already seen it with the goblin monarchs you occasionally get, and the new tavern visitors/residents. In the end the modes might just end up being "playing a site" and "playing a historical figure" -- the only real new mode we'd need there would be a civ-wide one, perhaps, though that could still be pretty easily centered around a capital or leader if one exists. You can start to think of other edge cases from there.
Are there plans to implement special holidays for the dwarves? For instance, since all deaths of old age occur on 1st of Granite, could the dwarves do a farewell ceremony on the day before for thosedamn quitterslucky few? Or, maybe, celebrate the founding of the fortress?
And, for that matter, do you think there could be non-celebratory rituals as well, such as when a new mayor is elected, the dwarves gather to cast their vote, or if someone is convicted of a crime, theexecutionjust punishment becomes a public spectacle?
[...]contrary to popular belief as some die a few days and a few years off that mark.I'm sorry, how can you die several years after the 1st of Granite?
[...]contrary to popular belief as some die a few days and a few years off that mark.I'm sorry, how can you die several years after the 1st of Granite?
Time dilation? Refusing to turn the page on the calendar?[...]contrary to popular belief as some die a few days and a few years off that mark.I'm sorry, how can you die several years after the 1st of Granite?
[...]contrary to popular belief as some die a few days and a few years off that mark.I'm sorry, how can you die several years after the 1st of Granite?
I don't know. Yoga? Dwarves aren't lemmings.
The age until they die isn't strict like i said, a few days or even years give or take off the mark.
My experience is that there's an old age die-off at the turn of the year, and I've never seen it at any other time (a 0.40.X version had migrants that were dying of old age in just a few years, and I'm still seeing animal death at that time but no other). However, a possible implementation of death by old age is to specify it down to the tick, but only check it at the turn of the year (in which case units might survive their expected time of death by up to 12 months).[...]contrary to popular belief as some die a few days and a few years off that mark.I'm sorry, how can you die several years after the 1st of Granite?
I don't know. Yoga? Dwarves aren't lemmings.
The age until they die isn't strict like i said, a few days or even years give or take off the mark.
No, unit.relations.old_year and unit.relations.old_time give the exact moment of death by old age for that particular unit down to the tick. It shouldn't be happening on 1st granite, I don't think...
The first one has probably been asked before, but will there eventually be legendary/folklore figures generated as well? Something in the vein of King Arthur or Robin Hood, where their existence is disputed and so on."Ha Ha! You can't kill me. I have a [DOES_NOT_EXIST] tag!"
I'd guess in some worlds they could potentially be actual historical figures (though of course it'd be random as to which parts of the legend would be true, embellishments of the truth or merely made-up events) and in others they'd simply be subjects of legends and works of art.
@ZM5: You can mod in things like shapes and associations by language raw editing. I think something like that was done for Cacame.I'm aware, but I think it should be an actual thing that historical figures would know about and make stories about, and not just symbols that can be used.
Wow. Fading information over time is something I really didn't expect to see, but sounds intense given how intricate that kind of thing can get. That's the kind of weird subtle hyper-nuance that, in true DF fashion, is going to fly so far under the radar that most people won't even realise it's there, but will be responsible for either a weird bug update, or a series of odd stories.
Yes, this will be nice when it applies to all rumours. "Legend tells of a great beast hiding under those mountains. Who knows if it's still there?" is a lot better than "Our great enemy Pixey the Dragon resides in the Mushy Hills. This fiend once stole a copper helmet (like 1500 years ago)".Wow. Fading information over time is something I really didn't expect to see, but sounds intense given how intricate that kind of thing can get. That's the kind of weird subtle hyper-nuance that, in true DF fashion, is going to fly so far under the radar that most people won't even realise it's there, but will be responsible for either a weird bug update, or a series of odd stories.
Exactly, people dont realize how amazing this little mechanic will be
It settles the placeholder for people forgetting about stuff, but still living in the shadows. Whole civilizations, gods, crimes and heroics will be forgotten
And with forgotten misteries on the world comes discoveries and findings
The same world will have vastly different knowledge depending on the moment of history its set uppon, and thats awesoem
This could be used to general knowledge, like knowing how to smelt iron or build machinery, making disparity among civilizations technologies which can drive up wars, trade, all kind of exciting adventures.
Back in version 0.31 and 0.34, animals died at exactly the beginning of the year, while dwarves died on their actual birthday. It's very possible (and likely) that things have changed since then, though.No, unit.relations.old_year and unit.relations.old_time give the exact moment of death by old age for that particular unit down to the tick. It shouldn't be happening on 1st granite, I don't think...My experience is that there's an old age die-off at the turn of the year, and I've never seen it at any other time (a 0.40.X version had migrants that were dying of old age in just a few years, and I'm still seeing animal death at that time but no other). However, a possible implementation of death by old age is to specify it down to the tick, but only check it at the turn of the year (in which case units might survive their expected time of death by up to 12 months).
I guess it's something that ought to be investigated.
Slade is dense enough that there might be visible redshift/blueshift from looking up/down near it, as well as gravitational lensing as I recall, wait, was it like neutron star material, or was it merely solar core densities? Either way it would induce a good amount of time dilation for those who spent more time down near it, quite a bit more than the fractions of a second difference between the surface here and orbit.
There would indeed be a significant amount of time dilation from getting closer to it though.Not at all. Time dilatation requires a much higher mass in one point (considered the distance decreasing gravity and therefore time dilation), and/or higher density. Overall you would require much MORE slade to obtain it.
One of consequence of gravity is that if you are outside a hollow sphere you feel the pull as if all the mass was at the center, but if you are inside that same hollow sphere you feel no net pull at all. So a layer of slade would increase surface gravity, but that would mysteriously vanish if you dig far enough. Of course, all kinds of strange things happen when you Dig Too Greedily and Too Deep™, so I suppose it's par for the course.QuoteThere would indeed be a significant amount of time dilation from getting closer to it though.Not at all. Time dilatation requires a much higher mass in one point (considered the distance decreasing gravity and therefore time dilation), and/or higher density. Overall you would require much MORE slade to obtain it.
Even the sun (which is not so dense) is very very weak in term of time dilation. Only much more dense objects (white dwarf/neutron star/black hole ,as Quietust said) can produce such effects.
With more slade in the ground, what you could obtain, however, is a stronger gravity.
Excepting very special situations, anyway, when you are in a place where you would feel time dilation, you are already dead (destroyed) for a long time (crushed or burnt, or both)
I wasn't assuming it was round and you were digging into a sphere, I was picturing a big slab of stellar core dense material thick enough to give "normal" enough gravity on the surface layers, and yeah, getting close to slade would not be healthy, though naturally this would mean a much thicker slab on a smaller world, and let's not talk about the directional variance where it would start to feel like you were walking around in a bowl since "down" would point towards the center of the map... unless the underside was curved to keep the local down consistent everywhere across the surface. Thinking something like this (http://i.stack.imgur.com/hqYS5.png) but I'm not sure how much stuff you'd need down there to get the same gravity a hundred or so z above it.I was assuming a round world, just with the local region modeled as flat. A layer at a more-or-less consistent depth worldwide would result in a hollow sphere, embedded in the round world.
QuoteThere would indeed be a significant amount of time dilation from getting closer to it though.Not at all. Time dilatation requires a much higher mass in one point (considered the distance decreasing gravity and therefore time dilation), and/or higher density. Overall you would require much MORE slade to obtain it.
Even the sun (which is not so dense) is very very weak in term of time dilation. Only much more dense objects (white dwarf/neutron star/black hole ,as Quietust said) can produce such effects.
With more slade in the ground, what you could obtain, however, is a stronger gravity.
Excepting very special situations, anyway, when you are in a place where you would feel time dilation, you are already dead (destroyed) for a long time (crushed or burnt, or both)
Okay, how did this thread go from asking questions about DF's development to the density of slade and stars?
Time dilation? Refusing to turn the page on the calendar?
Will people seeking artifacts react different ways when they see an adventurer with said artifact based on their personality? Does respect for the law increase the chances someone will try to demand it over whether they'd barter for it? Are reactions usually positive or do some fellow questers see high reputation as an artifact finder as threatening?
Well, I'd use the entity the interested party belongs to as the base and then apply personality (which is probably what you meant). A couple of other factors could come into play as well, such as faction sub group (peasant, or heavily armed battle scarred veteran?), interest in the claim ("pfah: it's just for the nobles to gawk on anyway" vs "the Holy PigTail Sock!!!!") and personal ambitions (if I return the item *I/WE* get the fame/reward).Will people seeking artifacts react different ways when they see an adventurer with said artifact based on their personality? Does respect for the law increase the chances someone will try to demand it over whether they'd barter for it? Are reactions usually positive or do some fellow questers see high reputation as an artifact finder as threatening?
Toady said something about this in the last Current development post:
The current project is handling 'encounters' of people that have an interest in an artifact with people that are holding the same artifact. So if you are a questing adventurer bringing an artifact back to a location, for instance, you might run into other questers, guards, or entity representatives before or during your return, and they should react in some way or another without waiting for you to initiate everything. This might be as simple as you riding a wave of praise back to wherever the artifact needs to go, or it might turn out quite differently if you aren't trusted. The wave of praise should also turn sour if you turn out not to be taking the artifact where they think you are -- but it'll have to give you some wiggle room as well... so we're trying to sort that kind of thing out.
Presumably, by what he said, people will have different reactions to you having a lost artifact with you. And the only logical way to make that unique for each person is rlying on personality
At least that's my guess
Are there any future plans to revise how the game handles food? Namely, to increase food consumption per job or to allow organics to rot even in stockpiles?Toady has mentioned that we're currently at "peak food" but that things should move toward more of a challenge in the future. He seemed to be hinting that consumption would go up and/or get vaguely nutrition-based so that at least the fort needs to provide some variety. My guess is that plump helmets will remain a (poor) universal foodstuff.
Currently, any fort not situated on a haunted glacier has almost immediate access to unlimited sources of food, making obtaining it a trivial matter, not a challenge it historically was. Furthermore, considering the yields of those jobs and the amount of food one dwarf consumes on average per month (which is just two units somehow), any dwarf fortress quickly devolves into a gigantic stockpile of overpriced exotic cuisine that, you can be absolutely sure, will never be used up naturally (and selling it I've personally come to consider an exploit on par with danger rooms and the like). Because, it's not like there's any benefit not to process raw food - it doesn't spoil either way. And, following the game logic, if one prepared meal is worth two weeks of sustenance, that's a tremendous amount of chow. At least that explains its price I guess...
1: The mason Cilob Udilkodor: Is that an artifact in your pocket?
What will you say?
Enter: Select, -+/*: Scroll
State opinion that it must be stopped with violent force.
State opinion that it is not your problem
State opinion that it was inevitable
State opinion that it is terrifying
State that you don't know anything about it
State that it is for the best
State that you don't care
State opinion that it is sad but not unexpected
State opinion that it is terrible
State that it is terrific
State that you're just happy to see them
Change the subject (new menu)
Do you plan to have sentient or sub-sentient creatures have certain disorders assigned at birth? If so, will you limit them to physical, mental or both?
how long are you going to make 32 bit compatible versions? I ask because my computer is 32 bit, and I'm hoping I won't have to stop using new versions anytime soon.Hey, when was support dropped for 16-bit versions? 8)
how long are you going to make 32 bit compatible versions? I ask because my computer is 32 bit, and I'm hoping I won't have to stop using new versions anytime soon.
how long are you going to make 32 bit compatible versions? I ask because my computer is 32 bit, and I'm hoping I won't have to stop using new versions anytime soon.
Seconding this concern. ;w;
I think that food system will be rewritten as a prelude to the economy arc (as it is, most villages are based on food production). So it will be likely to stay as it is for a long time.
I think that the slowed progress from Toady for the last 2 months (except from the conferences) has been caused by the complexity of Artifacts handling. All of this is based on "reactions". How will an observator understand what he is seeing ? And based on which knowledge ? If someone is seeing you with an artifact there are so many possibilities and interpretations that it will be very hard to create a good system.
But when it will be done, it will be surely very interesting.
how long are you going to make 32 bit compatible versions? I ask because my computer is 32 bit, and I'm hoping I won't have to stop using new versions anytime soon.
Seconding this concern. ;w;
The version that drops 32-bit support will also feature the return, with a vengeance, of the Giant Desert Scorpion. It will feature multi-tile giant-desert scorpions who are themselves giant deserts and home to regular sized giant-desert scorpions. Players will be able to tame the giant desert giant desert scorpions (GDGDSs) and turn them in to mobile fortresses. A hilarious anecdote from testing will describe how toady sent a force off map with one of these to assault a dark tower and it returned as a Giant Slade Scorpion with Adamantine venom. There will be so much sorrow about his fixing that bug that somebody will figure out how to mod it back in. Instead of setting up chained giant cave spiders to shoot webs at hapless critters, forts will set up kill chambers to allow the Giant Slade Scorpions to inject their victims as many times as possible. Then, upon death, the venom will be extracted as adamantine strands.
That was a very imaginative speech, just to say that the 32 bit version wont be abandoned in a long timeAre you smoking something?pass itAre you ok, Rockphed?
That was a very imaginative speech, just to say that the 32 bit version wont be abandoned in a long timeAre you smoking something?pass itAre you ok, Rockphed?
As okay as ever. It mostly flowed out of my, probably false, memory that Random Dragon spent a bit of time blasting the forums at every possible venture lobbying for the return of the GDS. From there it just took life and flew.
Now I want to figure out how to mod in a Giant Slade Scorpion that injects its victims full of harvestable adamantine strands. I think the harvestable part is the real tripping point.
1. Speaking of player-lords as Untrustedlife said, will player-lords be able to influence the laws and such of a civilization if they are in control of the capital eventually?We all like Toady a lot, but if he starts assigning lords over players, I might have to start looking at playing a different game. :)
2. Will it be possible for hamlets and towns/forest retreats/fortresses and hillocks/dark pits and dark fortresses to, if they do not particularly like the laws of their civilization, leave the civ and start their own?
3. Back to player-lords again, will player-lords be able to make a site leave like question 2 says?
"Player-lord" being hyphenated, I think, implies a player who is also a lord (both parts being nouns, rather than one being a noun used as an adjective).
If a megabeast is worshipped and killed, can part of that megabeast become a holy relic to its worshippers?
Will other roles like kobold thieves or goblin snatchers in future (with more development of the game and other races) ever be togglable or interactable professions within fortress mode? Given that by editing some memory values (as DFstructures implies) to unrestrict, they could be set up as flags for certain civ types ([BABYSNATCHER] & [ITEM THEIF]) to access, perhaps using the same system as artifact retrievers.
Quote from: ThundercraftIs there a plan to, eventually, allow players to create different types of adv-sites (Adventurer-created sites), aside from just Camps? Perhaps we could one day turn our own camps into a small Hamlet or Hillock, or maybe even a Lair, Labyrinth, Shrine, or Tomb?Quote from: pikachu17is there a plan to allow fort mode sites to become a Hamlet or Hillock, or aLair, Labyrinth, Shrine, or Tomb?
Unless its a secret, what is the typical (or in progress) outlay of kobold sites so far toady?
Toady have you read a fantasy novel such as any novel from the Discworld series or the Scion of Shannara series, (or any of the short stories from the Majesty fanatsy kingdom sim series of games (like this http://www.majestypalace.com/page/History_of_Ardania ), (or this http://www.majestypalace.com/page/Sources_for_Majesty_Lore) or anything like that) since the start of the myth generation stuff? and if so will it influence how you go about myth generation for your worlds and what books/stories were they? and if not, do you plan to?
How come there are no wooden statues? Is is simply something that is so minor that you've never gotten to it, or do you have any other reasons for not including them? It saddened me when I weren't able to create wooden statues of weeping and suffering elves and trees (to place along the path to my trade depot).
Are grown objects actually classed as twigs or logs in a certain narrative of elven ethics and grown nature magic? I guess twigs seeds and fruits wouldn't be much more different to livestock laying eggs/shearing livestock, it makes more sense to value the trunk of the tree as the 'body' and hence why elves dont freak out about camp fires etc since even they probably understand the sentiment to keep warm & safe from non-natural presences.
Given that the next current few arcs are mostly entity/unit based, has there been any more inward developmental discussion about additional improvements to the natural world? Iterating some of the dev goals for a forseeable point which point towards soil properties/fertility etc.
I am very interested in the 'debugging mode' you mentioned a while back (see the quote for context if it is needed) because I feel a spectator mode would be an ideal extension to Legends Mode. Would you care to elaborate on your debugging mode and would it be feasible to give the players access to this mode?
Recently while poking around with dfhack I noticed the option to make myself or others a tavern keeper or monster slayer occupation, I tried to make sure it was all linked properly in other locations but can't be sure if I did.
Is there any behavior/response/conversation option in adventurer mode for being/encountering a monster slayer? Being a tavern keeper in a tavern results in people shouting out orders and responding normally there, but I'm not sure where any monster slayer responses would crop up.
The first one has probably been asked before, but will there eventually be legendary/folklore figures generated as well? Something in the vein of King Arthur or Robin Hood, where their existence is disputed and so on.
I'd guess in some worlds they could potentially be actual historical figures (though of course it'd be random as to which parts of the legend would be true, embellishments of the truth or merely made-up events) and in others they'd simply be subjects of legends and works of art.
This could be useful for modding as a replacement for deities and the like - so instead of worshipping deities, some races would revere and look up to the heroes of their legends.
Second question more related to modding: will there be a possibility of being able to mod in set historical figures that always appear in every generated world? As in, they'd always have the same name, race, and description - essentially they'd be constants in the same way as megabeasts and the like are.
Lastly, do you intend to have values affect societal structures in civilizations, as well as their behaviour? For instance, a civilization which values knowledge would be more neutral and send out more scholars and explorers into the world, and their people would give out more quests to get books in adventure mode; whereas a civ that values martial prowess would possibly have a warrior-king/queen with an artifact weapon and legendary combat skills, and a way to gain their respect and/or friendship would be to slay various beasts around the world and bring back parts of their bodies - skulls, hands, etc. - as proof.
Will people seeking artifacts react different ways when they see an adventurer with said artifact based on their personality? Does respect for the law increase the chances someone will try to demand it over whether they'd barter for it? Are reactions usually positive or do some fellow questers see high reputation as an artifact finder as threatening?
how long are you going to make 32 bit compatible versions?
Are there plans for player-lords in adventure mode to send our subordinates on missions to retrieve the "grand holy artifact sock of cheese , heirloom of the DragonBeer clan" in the near future alongside the AI lords?
1. Speaking of player-lords as Untrustedlife said, will player-lords be able to influence the laws and such of a civilization if they are in control of the capital eventually?
2. Will it be possible for hamlets and towns/forest retreats/fortresses and hillocks/dark pits and dark fortresses to, if they do not particularly like the laws of their civilization, leave the civ and start their own?
3. Back to player-lords again, will player-lords be able to make a site leave like question 2 says?
Is there any consideration to including music and so on in the adventure mode? It strikes me as odd it doesn't work in adventure as is.You should probably clarify that if you want an answer. What about music doesn't work? You can sing, you can dance, you can compose.
When you say "Artifact Agents", do you mean Ring-wraiths?
It seems straightforward enough now, but I think the real test'll be the next set of several consecutive bug-fix releases.
several consecutive bug-fix releases.
When you say "Artifact Agents", do you mean Ring-wraiths?
More likely Bill Ferny.
Is there any consideration to including music and so on in the adventure mode? It strikes me as odd it doesn't work in adventure as is.Is there any consideration to including music and so on in the adventure mode? It strikes me as odd it doesn't work in adventure as is.
Is there any consideration to including music and so on in the adventure mode? It strikes me as odd it doesn't work in adventure as is.Is there any consideration to including music and so on in the adventure mode? It strikes me as odd it doesn't work in adventure as is.
(sorry, but you didn't make it limegreen, and I want the answer to this question)
Threetoe: The next question is from Luis and he asks, "What do you think version 1.0 would be like, in terms of gameplay elements, and also content features and interface, and may I add, music?"
Toady: It's hard to say. I mean, I don't even know if 1.0 is a special point anymore. We had wanted to get at least some kind of tutorial thing in. We had been thinking of doing seasonal music pieces and so on, but it's one of those things where it's hard to say that we're just going to stop and do some sort of graphical thing, and the mods are so far ahead of us anyway that it's almost pointless at this point to even consider doing that. So we're thinking mainly in terms of just the features and content in the game. I'm not sure how you differentiate those from gameplay elements.
Not sure what you're expecting here, but he means the stream of releases that always (despite some people's insistence that it doesn't happen) follows a major update including bug fixes and suggestions. These are pretty frequent at first so that's when we'll see if maintaining a 32 bit DF will slow things down.It seems straightforward enough now, but I think the real test'll be the next set of several consecutive bug-fix releases.several consecutive bug-fix releases.
Yesssss. ;w;
Do I have to drag out the quote pointing out how the last dozen or so releases have focused disproportionately on adding or changing content? >.o
When you say "Artifact Agents", do you mean Ring-wraiths?
Would anything ever convince you to bake in dwarf therapist?
. . .So we have decided, first off, that we're not really working to change VPL at this moment. We have some things that we're going to do later (we'll get to that in a moment) that will point toward big changes toward VPL. But the first push on job priorities is just going to be about the basic 'job selection' model. So right now, as people know, the jobs pick the dwarves, and that leads to bad selection sometimes. The job will just snatch up the first, nearest qualified dwarf to do the job, regardless of whatever jobs that dwarf might want to do, and that can lead to some really sub-par selections.
And there's a kind of symmetric problem if dwarves pick jobs. They'll pick jobs that another dwarf might be better suited for. So you can't really have jobs picking dwarves or dwarves picking jobs; you need to have a system that merges it all together and has a delay incorporated so that things can work themselves out. Not a big delay, almost unnoticeable, but just enough to get the right dwarf to the right job. And this will allow you to do things like taking a skilled dwarf, that you'd normally be forced to turn off their hauling, so that they would do the jobs you want them to do. And now you'd be able to leave their hauling on, for instance. They do hauling when they were truly idle, but they would still be able to go do their appropriate jobs when they were available. And by the same token you wouldn't have... We noticed that a lot of people were setting up this 'peasant class' of dwarves, unskilled dwarves, that were just set up for hauling. That should be a little less necessary now.
Threetoe: Except now we're going to be working with the last of these projects will be to implement new peasant classes of dwarves.
Toady: He he he. Yeah this is the kind of VPL change we were talking about. It should be exciting to see the status of your dwarves realized. And certain ones you'll be able to control more than others. Now there will be a circumstance under which you can control any dwarf to a large degree, and that's going to be the new 'Do This Now' prioritization for jobs, which will just snatch up the nearest dwarf that can do the job (like pulling a lever), and force them to do it. They'll drop what they're doing and save your fortress. Might stress them out a little bit, depending on the kind of dwarf, but you'll be able to do that finally. And furthermore we are mindful of things like the trading jobs, the harvest, and so on, and hopefully that'll be handled with the new job selection model overall. We are trying to stay away from spreadsheets and numbers approaches that kind of open up every single job to be ranked, you know, according to different numbers for each dwarf or workshop because that is unmanageable when the number of dwarves get high.
Threetoe: Also, it's a hint where we're going with this, which is to get rid of VPL all together, eventually.
Toady: Yeah, we would really like to restrict VPL possibly to a smaller number of dwarves that are actually the types of dwarves you would be ordering around like that. And we're also aware of kind of the 'work crew' approaches that people have, and that will also be something that is under consideration when we do understand 'fortress-citizen' status a little better.
I disagree with Rockphed's assessment and support Random_Dragon's sentiment:I'm not sure where you got that number. In the devlog, there are 3 things under "major bug fixes" and 20 under "other bug fixes/tweaks", which I think could be it, but that second category also includes bug fixes. I'd also like to point out the changelog on Mantis (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php), which lists 25 issues fixed in 0.43.03.
...
0.43.03: 3/20 bugs fixed.
Short answer, no.In addition, baking in DT would require rewriting a large portion of it and take up a lot of time (granted, some changes would make it simpler without the need to attach to DF externally).
Skills by spreadsheet will be replaced when the time comes, thus making utils like therapist (the skill selection part of it anyway) obsolete.
Skills by spreadsheet will be replaced when the time comes, thus making utils like therapist (the skill selection part of it anyway) obsolete.i doubt that. whatever they do, we will still need micromanagement, and - as you say - the skill selection is only a part. for many people (myself included) it's unplayable without DT (which is why i haven't played DF for a long time because there is no released DT for the current version). adding DT would improve the game alot more than all the other features. almost the same goes for dfhack.
Doubt it all you like, I'm just paraphrasing Toady. If you doubt everything he says why even bother following the game and making suggestions.Skills by spreadsheet will be replaced when the time comes, thus making utils like therapist (the skill selection part of it anyway) obsolete.i doubt that. whatever they do, we will still need micromanagement, and - as you say - the skill selection is only a part. for many people (myself included) it's unplayable without DT (which is why i haven't played DF for a long time because there is no released DT for the current version). adding DT would improve the game alot more than all the other features. almost the same goes for dfhack.
i do realize they are relying on the community to provide these tools, but it's a bad solution, because the community is too slow (tools have become too complex) for that.
Some of us turned off DT one day and discovered that the game is just as fun, if not more so, without it. It's only really needed for those who want to spend hours micromanaging their dorfs. And beginners who haven't found the (obtuse) menus yet.
I kinda miss the large reclaims. Has toady said anything about getting them back?
Threetoe: Okay, so the next question: 'Are we likely to see the old 80-dwarf reclaim teams again anytime soon? I miss being able to command a huge military of dwarves to reclaim that legendary metal from the invaders, and a starting seven kitted out with bronze weapons just doesn't do it.'
Toady: I don't remember why we got rid of that, because it was cool. I think the issue was more of a technical one, and a release-time one. This is me trying to remember stuff from years ago, but I think it was when the military screen changed and the whole military structure changed, and we started having to track all this extra information about the military; it became a pain to set up the reclaim squads right. It could just be something like that. I don't think we're against that because the start scenarios that we're doing for fort mode are going to have all kinds ... there could still be a core seven dwarves, if we want to stick with that out of a sense of tradition, but there are going to be scenarios where you start with a bunch of hill dwarves outside of your civilization, and starting with a larger military group - especially to reclaim a really dangerous fort - seems as cool to me as back when we had it before.
Threetoe:Yeah, especially with all the military dwarf stuff coming up pretty soon; it's going to fit in there to have the larger group.
Toady:Yeah. I'd think we could see that stuff again.
Yes, my number were <#major fixes>/<#minor fixes/tweaks> from the release notes. I've noted the bug tracker change log doesn't match up with the release notes. Also, I didn't read the release notes in detail, so there might be additional "minor tweaks" that were introductions of new stuff. (The "minor tweak" of weapon/armor damage has resulted in the need for additional bug fixes: in addition to the game crashing when weapon trap weapons break, there's also the need to deal with repair of equipment, dealing with masterworks destruction through damage [I don't know if a shock is generated, but suspect it is], and melting of damaged masterworks without causing a shock [in particular if repair isn't introduced]).I disagree with Rockphed's assessment and support Random_Dragon's sentiment:I'm not sure where you got that number. In the devlog, there are 3 things under "major bug fixes" and 20 under "other bug fixes/tweaks", which I think could be it, but that second category also includes bug fixes. I'd also like to point out the changelog on Mantis (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php), which lists 25 issues fixed in 0.43.03.
...
0.43.03: 3/20 bugs fixed.
:
Why would he put therapist in rather than manipulator which was designed for the df interface and a built-in part that feels totally natural thanks to dfhack?Skills by spreadsheet will be replaced when the time comes, thus making utils like therapist (the skill selection part of it anyway) obsolete.i doubt that. whatever they do, we will still need micromanagement, and - as you say - the skill selection is only a part. for many people (myself included) it's unplayable without DT (which is why i haven't played DF for a long time because there is no released DT for the current version). adding DT would improve the game alot more than all the other features. almost the same goes for dfhack.
i do realize they are relying on the community to provide these tools, but it's a bad solution, because the community is too slow (tools have become too complex) for that.
So, will I be able to bring artifacts to the demon for rewards with this update if I so wish, I don't want to have to be the good guy and you mentioned npcs doing it in the recent devlog so will players be able to do it?
Why would he put therapist in rather than manipulator which was designed for the df interface and a built-in part that feels totally natural thanks to dfhack?While he wouldn't put in either, I'd note that Dwarf Therapist has more features than manipulator for sorting - of which I consider things like (custom) roles, preferences, personality/ethics, attributes always useful, every day I use therapist - to the point that I didn't use manipulator (though I did use dfhack) in my recent succession 43.05 fortress, just vanilla interface (if I'm not going to be able to pick the best idle dwarf for the job, use it to weave a story or get dwarves to write ones or ensure nobody assigned armorsmithing always moods into low boots, it's still useful for ...oh wait, no migrant waves in generational fortress.)
Well, the devlog talks about ''help for the journey'' , and rewards from questersWhispy (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=51245.msg6724129#msg6724129) II: Artifact Bling Boogaloo.
So, If you manage to talk with a demon without him killing you, you shouldnt have a problem with playing a little ''devils advocate'' (sorry) and making quests for demons
Because Manipulator is like a (much) higher quality VPL, but which does everything Therapist does outside of making your neck hurt due to stupid sideways text, plus some random additional things that only seem to matter to people who use it, and which I thus don't understand due to having only ever installed it once before finding no way to get rid of the stupid sideways text so I deleted it all in disgust.Why would he put therapist in rather than manipulator which was designed for the df interface and a built-in part that feels totally natural thanks to dfhack?While he wouldn't put in either, I'd note that Dwarf Therapist has more features than manipulator for sorting - of which I consider things like (custom) roles, preferences, personality/ethics, attributes always useful, every day I use therapist - to the point that I didn't use manipulator (though I did use dfhack) in my recent succession 43.05 fortress, just vanilla interface (if I'm not going to be able to pick the best idle dwarf for the job, use it to weave a story or get dwarves to write ones or ensure nobody assigned armorsmithing always moods into low boots, it's still useful for ...oh wait, no migrant waves in generational fortress.)
Why would he put therapist in rather than manipulator which was designed for the df interface and a built-in part that feels totally natural thanks to dfhack?i don't know the manipulator. i also don't think adding DT is realistic. it's more the idea of what should be added to DF: a useful dwarf management system. any!
With the planned 'stolen artifact recovery squads', what's the range of the artifacts you'll be able to send people out to recover? Artifacts stolen from your fortress? Artifacts stolen from your civ hundreds of years ago? Artifacts not stolen from you at all but your mayor thought they'd look pretty good on his shelf after hearing a drunken elven bard sing about them? Will there be an actual 'game' element to this (recover artifacts to deal with noble demands, cure a depressed population or something) or is it just something fun to do?
and...
When the new spies come to check out your artifacts, will there be any way of working out who they are? Will the fortress guard or other diligent dorfs notice them acting suspiciously and accuse them?
Oh, also...
You mentioned peddlers on Twitter the other day, will they also turn up in fortress mode? Does this mean you're replacing the old merchant system finally or will both systems remain for now?
"Will there be fjords in worldgen? And will they be populated with parrots?"If by fjords you mean "adjacent mountain and sea", you can have these right now - even a world that's almost entirely made of them, with custom worldgen.
But, what about the Norwegian Blue parrot? Lovely plumage, the Norwegian Blue.
Can spiders actually crawl around on ceilings and stuff? Or does the climbing system not support that yet?No, they can't, but GSC and such can climb on walls.
Also when looking at legends you can see "so and so devoured so and so" however when you are a werebeast all you can really do is kill things, I cant devour creatures , neither can animals so if I play as a giant dingo or something in adventure mode I am unable to devour people, is this planned?"Devour" means to eat. If you eat histfig meat, that isn't tracked, though.
Can spiders actually crawl around on ceilings and stuff? Or does the climbing system not support that yet?No, they can't, but GSC and such can climb on walls.QuoteAlso when looking at legends you can see "so and so devoured so and so" however when you are a werebeast all you can really do is kill things, I cant devour creatures , neither can animals so if I play as a giant dingo or something in adventure mode I am unable to devour people, is this planned?"Devour" means to eat. If you eat histfig meat, that isn't tracked, though.
It was answered if you assume "GSC" is a mistype of "GCS", with generally stands for Giant Cave Spider. Interestingly enough, cave floaters actually seem to float below the ceiling.That's because they're actually flying, so that isn't a good idea to copy for other cave critters.
Im aware, but the only way you can EAT a histfig in adventure mode is to butcher them I want to be able to take bites from the corpse while playing as a giant dingo. SO I am asking if its planned, I know what devour means, obviously. And I was asking of giant spiders can climb on ceilings and stuff. and you haven't actually answered that.I had the same idea, so I hacked in a workaround. Downside is you need to either use dfhack to untoggle the dead_dwarf flag or use a reaction to remove [CAN_LEARN] before killing them.
It's not an ex-joke, it's merely stunned.But, what about the Norwegian Blue parrot? Lovely plumage, the Norwegian Blue.
I feel like you are referencing something, but I cannot place my finger on what. Also, I'm pretty sure that this is an ex-joke.
Mayor, Manager, Broker, Bookkeeper, Inquisitor, Sheriff, Hammerer,TorturerChief Medical Dwarf.
I could dig it.
The old priest classes had a tag where they could mention cults and heathens and such apparently, is this going to be coming back/built on with the holy relics and such, or is it even active but only under certain conditions now?
Is anything scheduled for terraforming? I think it would be realistic to add certain options, i.e. give a miner the task to take away one block of dirt at point A and use it to fill a hole at point B. It would also be great to have a job option to get rid of small boulders and saplings since they are often in the way of constructions.I believe movement of soil would follow more or less naturally from the future change of sand and clay to become limited resources. Boulders can be removed by smoothing currently, so that's not a problem. Neither saplings nor boulders block construction as far as I've seen, but saplings can be removed with dirt roads (except when they're directly on top of rock, which can happen with saplings present at embark). Hopefully landscaping would also add the ability to remove mud (although that may end up in agriculture improvements instead).
Boulders can be removed by smoothing currently, so that's not a problem. Neither saplings nor boulders block construction as far as I've seen, but saplings can be removed with dirt roads (except when they're directly on top of rock, which can happen with saplings present at embark).
It's not an ex-joke, it's merely stunned.But, what about the Norwegian Blue parrot? Lovely plumage, the Norwegian Blue.
I feel like you are referencing something, but I cannot place my finger on what. Also, I'm pretty sure that this is an ex-joke.
You can build farms on boulders by first smoothing them and then muddying their surface, and saplings can be removed by dirt roads. However, the farm rewrite may very well require you to have an entire Z level of soil/mud, in which case there will have to be a way to remove a rock floor and building soil layers (well, you can channel it away, and if soil movement is implemented you can then fill up the hole, but it would be more convenient to just remove the rock "lid").Boulders can be removed by smoothing currently, so that's not a problem. Neither saplings nor boulders block construction as far as I've seen, but saplings can be removed with dirt roads (except when they're directly on top of rock, which can happen with saplings present at embark).
Fair enough, I was more thinking along the lines of farms. But here it might be easier to rewrite farms so that they can also (like everything else) be built on top of boulders and saplings.
Phew, it was a lot to write. Thanks for reading in advantage
"Will there be fjords in worldgen? And will they be populated with parrots?"If by fjords you mean "adjacent mountain and sea", you can have these right now - even a world that's almost entirely made of them, with custom worldgen.
However, grey parrots occur only in tropical moist broadleaf forests (unless you mod them), so you have to include some rainy and hot mid-elevation areas.
He's pining for the Fjords.
First off, if the new DF talk isn't uploaded yet as of your answer, when can we expect to see it? Also, what are the prospects of other DF talks following this next one?
Second off, (when) do you plan to implement natural diseases, fevers or even plauges? As well as diseases spreading outside of your fort. Currently the hospitals have none to little to do when there's not either some kind of attack on your fort or you're intentionally hurting your dwarves. The disease resistance also seems to do more or less nothing.
First off, if the new DF talk isn't uploaded yet as of your answer, when can we expect to see it? Also, what are the prospects of other DF talks following this next one?Could you post a link to where a new DFtalk was mentioned? Seemed to have missed that one. Thanks!
Second off, (when) do you plan to implement natural diseases, fevers or even plauges? As well as diseases spreading outside of your fort. Currently the hospitals have none to little to do when there's not either some kind of attack on your fort or you're intentionally hurting your dwarves. The disease resistance also seems to do more or less nothing.
Phew, it was a lot to write. Thanks for reading in advantage
I can definitely see those ideas being abused by modders if implemented.
First off, if the new DF talk isn't uploaded yet as of your answer, when can we expect to see it? Also, what are the prospects of other DF talks following this next one?
Second off, (when) do you plan to implement natural diseases, fevers or even plauges? As well as diseases spreading outside of your fort. Currently the hospitals have none to little to do when there's not either some kind of attack on your fort or you're intentionally hurting your dwarves. The disease resistance also seems to do more or less nothing.
Yeah, everything that gives more freedom to modders is cool on my book
and it also relates to an expanded language frameworkThis reminds me of a question I wanted to ask years ago and for various reasons never got around to and don't remember ever seeing asked.
Can we as players be prophets, pilgrims etc? Can we make up bullshit prophecies?
Probably been asked already, but hopefully someone will see this:Not within the near future, as it's not within the (initial) artifacts/myth/magic scope.
With the new locations functionality, when can we expect to see trade schools be an available option? Say you have a legendary clothier, and there's a lot of dwarves who want to learn a craft, they can go to this location and the clothier can teach them how to make clothes?
I like what Toady has done about spies. I just hope that, with time, taverns won't be full of spies and that real people will still exist.
Artifacts, spells or alchemist concoctions that force someone to say the truth?We sure gravitate towards torture around here.
There's also the old, wise way of beating the crap and truth out of everything you come across.
I'm wondering how entities are even going to discover spies. Careless talk in taverns? Guards following sneaking characters to clandestine meetings?
I like what Toady has done about spies. I just hope that, with time, taverns won't be full of spies and that real people will still exist.
Heh. Double agents all the way down.
I'm not sure I have read details about this, but if this is the case, sorry for the question :
Will a priest have access to some magic from gods, and if yes, will it be different from a wizard's magic ?
In the future Myth/Magic release, are there plans to expand prayer in adventure mode? Will talking to a player's deity eventually get a response if they are devout enough, or grant blessing, gifts, or tablets/secrets a la Nethack?Again a wild guess, but it seems the most logical path for that mechanic, being able to communicate with omnipotent beings through praying, and having it affect the world and yourself somehow, its all open possibilities
I very much doubt DF gods are going to be omnipotent, as that more or less requires monotheism (irresistible forces vs unmovable objects, etc.), but rather more akin to gods in polytheistic mythologies, where they are (sometimes much) more powerful than humans, but neither all powerful, nor all knowing.
I'd assume that if a "god" was a more or less sentient force, you wouldn't converse with it, but rather get any responses in the form of feelings, visions, or possibly thoughts, rather than words.
have you already or intended to poke at how adventurer entity claims only operate on the site government level, and if so (or if not really) was it just how it turned out that all the sorts of interactions one would want to operate as a site lord seem to function better as a civ level ruler, and similarly, are the artifact quests/ownership being passed down mostly at the site/family level, or is it that plus the civ level stuff going around too?
are there any other quirky little easter eggs you would think people would have figured out by now, like being able to actually work as a tavern keeper, or the lack of sunlight when dead, perhaps a way to use a wheelbarrow in adventurer mode? I haven't been able to figure it out, not for lack of trying.
You mentionned in the 16/11/2016 post that you gave a talk at the Practice conference at the NYU Game Center.
When you'll reply to the next FotF, if there is no news from it, would you summarize what did you talk about there ?
How is the major to minor severity assigned on release notes and bug tracker?
Are we gonna see Animal Caretaking being implemented anytime soon? I'd like to keep my war beasties healthy so they can participate in more than one fight per life.
So, will I be able to bring artifacts to the demon for rewards with this update if I so wish, I don't want to have to be the good guy and you mentioned npcs doing it in the recent devlog so will players be able to do it?
Do Goblin agents have to report back to their masters or send messengers to update their civ's information?
Both as a Norwegian and the future possibility of trireme styled ships and harbors, I have to ask
"Will there be fjords in worldgen? And will they be populated with parrots?"
With the planned 'stolen artifact recovery squads', what's the range of the artifacts you'll be able to send people out to recover? Artifacts stolen from your fortress? Artifacts stolen from your civ hundreds of years ago? Artifacts not stolen from you at all but your mayor thought they'd look pretty good on his shelf after hearing a drunken elven bard sing about them? Will there be an actual 'game' element to this (recover artifacts to deal with noble demands, cure a depressed population or something) or is it just something fun to do?
and...
When the new spies come to check out your artifacts, will there be any way of working out who they are? Will the fortress guard or other diligent dorfs notice them acting suspiciously and accuse them?
Oh, also...
You mentioned peddlers on Twitter the other day, will they also turn up in fortress mode? Does this mean you're replacing the old merchant system finally or will both systems remain for now?
Quote from: *Another*Will what we can display in display cases be governed by ethics? Since humans have the ethic [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE], would they be able to display animals in cases, as opposed to elves, with this ethic: [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:UNTHINKABLE]Quote from: Daniel the FinlanderCan corpses be placed in display cases? Is there a size restriction, or can you put a sperm whale skeleton in a museum of natural history?
The old priest classes had a tag where they could mention cults and heathens and such apparently, is this going to be coming back/built on with the holy relics and such, or is it even active but only under certain conditions now?
Can spiders actually crawl around on ceilings and stuff? Or does the climbing system not support that yet?
Also when looking at legends you can see "so and so devoured so and so" however when you are a werebeast all you can really do is kill things, I cant devour creatures , neither can animals so if I play as a giant dingo or something in adventure mode I am unable to devour people, is this planned?
-The dragon had disolvent stomach acids in his belly. Does that mean that eventually materials will have chemical propierties like acidity or flamability, as most materials have phisical propierties now? That would reeeealy add stuff to the game
-The empty space that was considered his stomach spawned naturally those acids. Will we, in the future, have more creature creation mechanics as that?(Im talking body wise, having defined forms on bodies and organs) Will the creation of those materials ''consume'' nutrients from the food we eat, or will it work like infinite spits like we have now?
Do you intend fortress or group name to ever have any significance to who shows up to join your fortress?
Will these new character types apply for residence and/or citizenship, or will they just show up as visitors "useless" for fortress citizenship diversification purposes (both for the next release and for the fleshed out versions)?
Quote from: Eric BlankCan we as players be prophets, pilgrims etc? Can we make up bullshit prophecies?Quote from: RubikWill we be able to peddle, as adventurers?
What will be the requisites to becoming a criminal
What is the purpose of pilgrims(what will they tell you when you ask them why are they traveling)?
From the dev.goals page, complex social situations and interactions, like deep conversations or logical reasonings, seem to be the base of a lot of goals. This makes sense, as a game that wants to generate stories like DF, needs complexity in every branch of the game
Now, social simulation games like sims (just an example) are something I really love, and I would like to know where will the limit of complexity regarding psycho/social behaviour will be
Powergoals 119 and 120 are somewhat what I dream to have in the game. Complex behaviour and the adequate implementation of it in the game
Is there any way for spies to discover the identity of other spies? What happens if they do work it out and they're from opposing civs? If it's possible, how do other townsfolk/soldiers etc react if a spy's cover is blown?
Do spies from the same civ recognise each other? Does anything happen if they run into each other?
If a human adventurer walks into an evil goblin town where a human civ spy works, will that spy freak out like the rest of the goblins or will he ignore the adventurer?
Oh, and just in case...
If a goblin invasion wipes out a town, will their spies survive? If not, will the entire civ melt down in a colossal worldgen loyalty cascade?
Will we be able to accuse people of being spies?
'You despicable two-faced crook, know now that I have seen through your lies, and I will see to it that your treasonous ways receive the punishment they deserve!'
"What is this madness? I'm a vampire, not a spy, I mean... wait-"
I thought I had stumbled upon an amazing new item decoration option in the raws when I tried using the [DEFAULT_IMPROVEMENT:SPECIFIC:ROLLERS:HARD_MAT] format with HANDLE to add some detail to my weapons and it worked. I had assumed that any improvement specified would work, allowing STRAPS on shields or PADDING on armor, but realized after checking in an unmodified save with dfhack I found that 0 (HANDLE) and 1 (ROLLERS) are present whether you change them or not.
Was this intended to be something we can add our own variations on top of? Was the HANDLE improvement intended to be included or just an afterthought? Also, there was an option in the globals list for what dfhack calls itemimprovement_specific_type which doesn't work at all, was that supposed to be the syntax for modding in improvements, or was it an existing feature that was deprecated (or mysteriously unavailable, like ART_IMAGE) at some point?
What kind of overlaps does agents have on conquered provinces & spying on rebel/factional groups? I know goblins have frequent factional groups, very little law enforcement (without modding in local militias to duff up troublemakers) and a well exercised death penalty for treason, but obviously without knowing who is traitorous or possible pretender, they can't do anything about it pre-emptively. Might agents infiltrate these groups as well as keep tabs on disgruntled people in occupied settlements/new conquests?
If you acquired by pure chance a king who does not respect law loyalty or honesty (possibly and most likely a sadistic vampire) within the very entity ethical dwarven kingdom (with all the promoted virtues against it etc etc) might they employ or atleast encourage more homegrown agents of their own to use to further their own interests. It'd be nice to have a crooked king bring in some criminals & shady dealers into the court & the taverns at much the distaste of the local population of your fortress.
Will there be coliseums or arenas at some point? Could provide interesting solutions for strength-worshipping civilizations to settle issues, as well as other scenarios, i.e one of the fighters dying from a poisoned weapon being provided, or rigged matches, etc.
Second, will there eventually be sites such as hamlets and the like that aren't affiliated with any civ by default? Could also provide for some scenarios like towns full of zombified villagers in evil biomes, perhaps governed by a necromancer group.
Lastly, will there be some sort of token that allows a creature to appear by default with weapons or clothing? Would make minotaurs and the like a lot more dangerous, and also really helpful for modding.
These days, do you find it easier to implement adventure mode related features, or fortress mode features, or to simply work on worldgen frameworks? Which kind of work is exciting you the most, and which one do you think is more of a hassle?
Also, did you survive the lutefisk this year?
Will a priest have access to some magic from gods, and if yes, will it be different from a wizard's magic ?
Initially I was convinced that high armor user skill had an effect on armor deflection rate, specifically that it increased the rate of "but the attack glances away!" results, though I was working on the assumption that, as the impacts with a higher rate of deflections and armor absorbing damage gave higher experience, this must represent a larger success on the skill roll.
After testing more I realized I had never really encountered high armor user without high dodging skill and tested that, resulting in a higher rate of "glances away" results, is that in fact a dodge result? Is there any sort of effect from higher armor user besides reduced encumbrance?
In the future Myth/Magic release, are there plans to expand prayer in adventure mode? Will talking to a player's deity eventually get a response if they are devout enough, or grant blessing, gifts, or tablets/secrets a la Nethack?
You mentioned asymmetrical relationships due to the new code for creating spies and agents. Does this also mean that ordinary relationships in fortress mode will also be asymmetrical? Could this mean the possibility for unrequited love, or love triangles?
Also, in a similar vein,
In a recent fortress I noticed that two of the original seven dwarves had become lovers. Later, they were in the hospital and I noticed that they got into a huge fistfight. One of them had been enraged. Is this planned behaviour? Have relationships now become potentially aggressive as well as positive?
Why are there no tents in bandit camps? Will they have them at some distant point in the future, or are they supposed to be tent-less?
Quote from: ChristianWeisethBoth as a Norwegian and the future possibility of trireme styled ships and harbors, I have to ask
"Will there be fjords in worldgen? And will they be populated with parrots?"
We still haven't brought official cliffs back. We have climbing now, so we're part of the way there. There are parrots in the game. I'm not sure how they get enlisted on boats so often but people seem to do that.
Hey, Rubik.
Check this thread out.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161884.0
That one got away from me, to rephrase it better, is there a reason the entity created when an adventurer claims a site has no links back to their parent entity? A fort group has their new entity and a link to the parent civ so the world responds properly, so I tested by going in with dfhack and manually adding those links in, the rest of the world then seemed to respond to my entity in a more normal fashion. Was that "starting from scratch" state intentional, or was it more of a bug/just something you didn't get around to yet?Quote from: Max™have you already or intended to poke at how adventurer entity claims only operate on the site government level, and if so (or if not really) was it just how it turned out that all the sorts of interactions one would want to operate as a site lord seem to function better as a civ level ruler, and similarly, are the artifact quests/ownership being passed down mostly at the site/family level, or is it that plus the civ level stuff going around too?
The site level governments have been sort of evolving/broken for years, and we've set out the embark scenario release as the place where we are going to gut that entirely. The idea of "entity membership" changed -- people on site now don't need to belong to the site entity, but they often do, and the idea of a cultural identity emerged from that, separate from the site leadership, but it's still a mess. I couldn't really parse your paragraphs leading up to your question though, so I'm not sure exactly what's going on. There are artifacts at the civ and religion entity levels as well.
So I wasn't crazy, I kept getting strings where it seemed like I was on the right track and then I'd get one of those natural 1 type rolls and it threw everything in doubt again, thanks for the explanation!Quote from: Max™Initially I was convinced that high armor user skill had an effect on armor deflection rate, specifically that it increased the rate of "but the attack glances away!" results, though I was working on the assumption that, as the impacts with a higher rate of deflections and armor absorbing damage gave higher experience, this must represent a larger success on the skill roll.
After testing more I realized I had never really encountered high armor user without high dodging skill and tested that, resulting in a higher rate of "glances away" results, is that in fact a dodge result? Is there any sort of effect from higher armor user besides reduced encumbrance?
Yeah, your "deflection roll" is based on your armor use skill, but in the first calculation your dodge roll counts more and replaces your deflection roll if it is higher. That roll is thrown into an equation with the hit roll to get the "squareness" of the attack from 0 to 20. There's some pure luck at this stage though, and the squareness can sometimes be increased regardless of the rolls.
Later, the same deflection roll is used directly with relevant worn items one by one to modify attack momentum using the material/etc. -- dodge rolls don't enter into this. Item familiarity can increase this deflection bonus.
In addition to speed, high armor skill also decreases your "clunkiness" with heavy worn objects. The clunkiness sum applies a minus to many skill rolls (mostly combat, but a few non-combat).
What sorts of effects will magic be able to produce?
What sorts of effects will magic be able to produce?
Man, I never say anything about people questions, but you should really try to be more specific
Im having trouble Imagining a question more general than that
There's just too many things you could say about the effects of magic, maybe focuse in one concrete aspect or effect
What sorts of effects will magic be able to produce?
Man, I never say anything about people questions, but you should really try to be more specific
Im having trouble Imagining a question more general than that
There's just too many things you could say about the effects of magic, maybe focuse in one concrete aspect or effect
Alright. I'll be more specific:
Will spells available for casting be determined during world generation, invented by wizards themselves, or improvised on the fly? Will each spell produce a specific effect (e.g. conjure ice, pick lock, transform wood to metal) or will spells be able to produce wider sets of effects (e.g. conjure this thing, move that thing, transform this thing to that thing)?
You can see some of the magic effects when they showed the myth generator in the gdc talk (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023372/Practices-in-Procedural) a while back.Alright. I'll be more specific:
Will spells available for casting be determined during world generation, invented by wizards themselves, or improvised on the fly? Will each spell produce a specific effect (e.g. conjure ice, pick lock, transform wood to metal) or will spells be able to produce wider sets of effects (e.g. conjure this thing, move that thing, transform this thing to that thing)?
Well, the stories written by the brothers and the stuff Toady himself says suggest that spells can/will be natural, given by gods, invented by people, and a long etc.
Everything myth/magic oriented will be determined from the nature created in each world gen.
In this order, magic depends from the mythology, and the mythology derives from rng and the famous sliders
The effects of magic vary wildly in nature, execution, source and usage from the stories published, which are our actual only sources of info from future features
The last story, published as a christmas gift 6 days ago, delves subtly in some aspects of magic
You should really read the analisis of this story and the cado one if you are interested in magic, as well as read old threads about the subject, which exist almost since the beggining of the dev time
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_tales_foretold.html
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html
here, both stories links
In a more broad and quick answer, magic will be different from world to world, and you'll be able to explore different types of magic and usages in each of them.
Also uses will be deep or simple, general or precise, but none of them will be 'rpg' type magic. At least not in the usual way
Is there a plan for travelers to use roads and bridges? Would there some benefit to it? But some risk, such as increased bandit activity? Would players be able to set up a camp on a key bridge or a major highway, and steal from travelers?There could be multiple benefits to roads:
As for the stealing, can already do it in fort mode by marking what visitors carry on them for dumping. Like in adventure mode, where gear laying around in the hillocks can be freely picked up, this pisses off nobody.In adventure mode you can beat them, and then demand items, or wrestle them away. That'd be how you steal. I'm talking about more bandit stuff, such as robbing caravans and travelers for their wealth. It would require caravans, but that'd be another source of income.
Will there ever be a way to turn rotten skeletons into bones?
Building on FantasticDorf's answer: You have to wait until the meat has rotted away, I think, but when you have a clean skeleton you can butcher it for bones (which is normally scheduled automatically, unless you've changed the settings from default), but only provided the critter is butcherable, i.e. you would have been able to butcher it while fresh.Will there ever be a way to turn rotten skeletons into bones?
Without bugs (the game kind, not the natural animal kind), usually that would be happening anyway but you can butcher skeletal corpses for bones (again if its not bugged)
@Rubik: We probably don't want pieces of armor lying around. The FPS is already degraded too much as it is by items that have to be kept track of. Bones should not decay into bone meal, but rather disappear when degraded sufficiently: creation of bone meal fertilizer should be an active (workshop) activity.
The bone retrieval is currently odd in that you can get bones when severed extremities decay, but the decay of bodies result in skeletons that do not decay further into bones (but they will degrade into nothing eventually, I believe). Getting bones from a skeleton requires an active butchering task, which is available only for some skeletons, which is inconsistent: you really ought to be able to butcher bodies of tame animals killed by invaders, and you really ought to be able to retrieve bones from any skeletons you do not have any ethical restrictions to using the bones of. The current butcherability tag primarily intended for meat butchering is reused for bone retrieval. It's also inconsistent that bones from sapients can't be used for crafting, but bones from undead that used to be sapient can.
Have you thought about hinting at forgotten beasts strange qualities rather then telling the player they spit acid and climb walls?
What do you think of the last guardian as a model for forgotten beasts?
Would you? If it is like secretive moods you'd just use a lookup table/guessing what it actually is...Exactly there would be a short time period were the community wouldnt know, then that information would be correlated on the wikia and fully look able. What would it actually add? Annoyance maybe because you'd have to pause and go look up what 'As the forgotten beasts walks forth it brings in its wake covering of dirt and skin debris' or however vauge the hint string would be.
On the other hand a FB that is widely know could have the full description, but again taking from the rumor mechanics, it could have exaggerated proprieties, like "it shoots lasers from it's eyes" and "it craps pure gold nuggets", and so on, and only once you encounter it and see what it does in battle the description clears out only to discover that it only crap silver nuggets, what a disappointment.
Why would it change?
Is the army arc, as a design/timeline conceit, well and truly dead? If so, can we get some sort of post-mortem? In particular, the basic gameplay elements that could make fort mode a bit more strategy-oriented, with players taking a more active governance role and sending out armies (partly composed of hill dwarves) to conquer and stuff. I'm asking now because artifact retrieval seems mechanically related. Will a lot of army arc stuff tie into that? I imagine some will come up in embark scenarios too, and some bits are probably in the no timeline category.
For example, if the player robs somebody without saying their name, a problem with the new system was that only the people that witnessed the event thought ill of the player even after a few days, since other townspeople could no longer make the link between the player and the event. However, if the player talks to enough people in a small enough town either before or after the robbery, then whatever name/alias they used should become linked to the incident after a bit of time (the normal rumor spread time).There ya go, I imagine it'll be similar to the "reply with impersonation" option except with more choices or different identities listed as you make/acquire them.
Also, will we ever be able to specify items for decoration jobs more precisely without fiddling with stockpile links? Like picking item types more specific than furniture/finished goods/ammo, or better yet, a specific item like in the military menu.
What's done for the next release? What still needs doing?
From the devlogs, it looks like artifact handling is mostly in. Has the myth generator been integrated yet? I recall that magic is waiting until the second part of the update.
What's done for the next release? What still needs doing?Artifact release (going by initial plans) still requires kobold sites and all of the artifact stuff for fortress mode (squads, invasions, demands, possibly in-fortress spies) neither of which have started yet. Quite a way to go yet.
From the devlogs, it looks like artifact handling is mostly in. Has the myth generator been integrated yet? I recall that magic is waiting until the second part of the update.
What's done for the next release? What still needs doing?Artifact release (going by initial plans) still requires kobold sites and all of the artifact stuff for fortress mode (squads, invasions, demands, possibly in-fortress spies) neither of which have started yet. Quite a way to go yet.
From the devlogs, it looks like artifact handling is mostly in. Has the myth generator been integrated yet? I recall that magic is waiting until the second part of the update.
Since I changed goblins to stop the kill_neutral:required behavior the only time towns or forts are super laggy is if there is a buggy collapse or a randomly sealed off murderbox library, occasionally dark fortresses have gobs trying to conga-line in/out of the minitowers/spire and get pretty laggy too.
Vast majority of the adventure mode site lag is stuff like world-gen forts where people start in locations a, b, or c, but want to get to locations b/c, a/c, or a/b, possibly tossing in a d in there, which is awful when they're trying to path up a rampspiral or stuck on a level with a broken connection.I find general wandering around the biggest cities (pop 10k+) to lag somewhat, and more so when wandering into the keep or down into the sewers of those sites. Not as badly a dark fortress kill-neutral freak-out but enough to encourage me not to bother with a highly populated kobold cave - so certainly worth working on for the next release.
Since I changed goblins to stop the kill_neutral:required behavior the only time towns or forts are super laggy is if there is a buggy collapse or a randomly sealed off murderbox library, occasionally dark fortresses have gobs trying to conga-line in/out of the minitowers/spire and get pretty laggy too.
Nah, that's site based sadly.Since I changed goblins to stop the kill_neutral:required behavior the only time towns or forts are super laggy is if there is a buggy collapse or a randomly sealed off murderbox library, occasionally dark fortresses have gobs trying to conga-line in/out of the minitowers/spire and get pretty laggy too.
Out of curiosity, does that have any affect on ability to travel through or rest in dark forts?
Nah, that's site based sadly.
Since I changed goblins to stop the kill_neutral:required behavior the only time towns or forts are super laggy is if there is a buggy collapse or a randomly sealed off murderbox library, occasionally dark fortresses have gobs trying to conga-line in/out of the minitowers/spire and get pretty laggy too.
Out of curiosity, does that have any affect on ability to travel through or rest in dark forts?
Will there ever be a way to create an intelligent forest creature civ?...Elf?
Will there ever be a way to create an intelligent forest creature civ?The convention is that if you want Toady to read your question and reply to it you paint it in (lime) green, but you can leave it at default if the question is directed to other forumites.
The fortifications (trenches etc) deny you from sleeping there & fast-travelling out (when you play as a evil entity adventurer), which is probably for the best given that you'll probably be murdered or have a random encounter with some deranged goblin eventually, its safer to camp outside away from the lag & squabble.
The fortifications (trenches etc) deny you from sleeping there & fast-travelling out (when you play as a evil entity adventurer), which is probably for the best given that you'll probably be murdered or have a random encounter with some deranged goblin eventually, its safer to camp outside away from the lag & squabble.
If you mod goblins to be playable however, this becomes an unfortunate annoyance, given you're liable to only be accosted if you encounter bandits rather than soldiers, who the average goblin seems to have a negative opinion of anyway. :V
That is an interesting question, presenting an item or corpse can already let people recognize that it means someone is dead or was at least attacked, bragging about slaying your evil alter ego like that isn't too far from what may be involved in just setting up an identity actually.
Hell, that's a good question: would it be possible to go around claiming you were responsible for slaying a monster or whatnot as part of a fake identity? Naturally this would run the risk of bumping into someone who had actually done it, or someone who had been attacked by it at some point after you claimed to have bumped it off, I'd suppose.
That's just a tweet about npc secret agent behavior. I think people are more interested in how much we can actually play with fake identity schenanigans ourselves.That is an interesting question, presenting an item or corpse can already let people recognize that it means someone is dead or was at least attacked, bragging about slaying your evil alter ego like that isn't too far from what may be involved in just setting up an identity actually.
Hell, that's a good question: would it be possible to go around claiming you were responsible for slaying a monster or whatnot as part of a fake identity? Naturally this would run the risk of bumping into someone who had actually done it, or someone who had been attacked by it at some point after you claimed to have bumped it off, I'd suppose.
Via the Bay 12 twitter feed it is.
https://twitter.com/Bay12Games/status/811005801418485761
I don't think a need to wander will be done in a fort, I only get it when I travel in adventure mode through areas of wilderness.Sending out dwarves with a need to wander as part of artifact recovery squads would probably solve that one.
Do you ever plan on adding music to adventurer mode, or is it silent in homage to classic rogue-likes?
Eh, both the mayor and expedition leader are a lot more useful now that the "meet workers" role also covers petitions (confirmed via giving that responsibility token to the manager in a mod I was fiddling with).
Would be neat if the hammerer was given the role of beating information out of people. o3o
This gives me a question, actually. How will attempting to root out spies in fortress mode be handled, from the player's perspective? If they're given any ability to actively order investigations or interrogate people, which dwarf would be in charge of such things?
Eh, both the mayor and expedition leader are a lot more useful now that the "meet workers" role also covers petitions (confirmed via giving that responsibility token to the manager in a mod I was fiddling with).
Would be neat if the hammerer was given the role of beating information out of people. o3o
This gives me a question, actually. How will attempting to root out spies in fortress mode be handled, from the player's perspective? If they're given any ability to actively order investigations or interrogate people, which dwarf would be in charge of such things?
If anything that sounds more like a prelude to the law arc, setting up the worth of villainous folk to catch & apprehend then ship off.
Occasionally putting on a spectacle to watch a spy get clobbered rather than applying punishment of your own dwarves sounds much more pleasant
Torture is already implied in the game. Torture for information and Torture for fun are both defined ethics.
Not yet anyway. It's against dwarf ethics anyhow.Torture is already implied in the game. Torture for information and Torture for fun are both defined ethics.
But can you do it? Sadly.. no.
Meaning Goblin Gulag confirmed for futurecanon? o3o
Meaning Goblin Gulag confirmed for futurecanon? o3o
Not yet anyway. It's against dwarf ethics anyhow.Torture is already implied in the game. Torture for information and Torture for fun are both defined ethics.
But can you do it? Sadly.. no.
But sites won't be limited to dwarves forever. So there's 'hope' yet.
ASCII prison architect - Ages of communal showering & drunkenessSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Its reasonable to say that in the ethics, goblins would torture any prisoner (and also animals) for fun or no reason at all other than to keep goblins amused (which sounds like a very efficient way to deal with cruelty desires)
ASCII prison architect - Ages of communal showering & drunkenessSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Its reasonable to say that in the ethics, goblins would torture any prisoner (and also animals) for fun or no reason at all other than to keep goblins amused (which sounds like a very efficient way to deal with cruelty desires)
Maybe. Funny as that'd be, it was also referencing my unofficial name for "goblins as playable civ" mods. Since my own released version of Kobold Camp is Kobold Kamp, it seems amusing to have other such mods be alliterative.
Human Hamlet? Elf Enclave? o3o
Goblins are probably the easiest ones to mod because they are 0 upkeep and malleable to what the player raw edits, i have my own 'build' of a goblin centric DF edition i've talked about before that's balanced because turtling is punished by inevitable infighting. Alternative races are either so far out there or not really on the planned dev plan at all that its not worth worrying about too much and instead assimilate the new dwarf features in the alternative context.
Goblins are probably the easiest ones to mod because they are 0 upkeep and malleable to what the player raw edits, i have my own 'build' of a goblin centric DF edition i've talked about before that's balanced because turtling is punished by inevitable infighting. Alternative races are either so far out there or not really on the planned dev plan at all that its not worth worrying about too much and instead assimilate the new dwarf features in the alternative context.
Eh. That's really cheating though, goblins are kinda broken as-is due to not needing food or water. Thanks to Toady forgetting that we now HAVE goblin adventurers in vanilla, and some tosspots seriously overthinking the moral implications of what was clearly a workaround to older instances of carnivore civs starving themselves out (nevermind kobolds no longer seem to do that).
I thought elves actually had a reaction to create grown wood out of random seeds. At least that was reported from using a bugged save where the dwarves turned out to be elves at embark.
goblins are kinda broken as-is due to not needing food or water. Thanks to Toady forgetting that we now HAVE goblin adventurers in vanilla, and some tosspots seriously overthinking the moral implications of what was clearly a workaround to older instances of carnivore civs starving themselves out (nevermind kobolds no longer seem to do that).
It's sad that I'm still convinced that the lore reason came after the now-unneeded gameplay reason. ;w;
goblins are kinda broken as-is due to not needing food or water. Thanks to Toady forgetting that we now HAVE goblin adventurers in vanilla, and some tosspots seriously overthinking the moral implications of what was clearly a workaround to older instances of carnivore civs starving themselves out (nevermind kobolds no longer seem to do that).
~~~It's sad that I'm still convinced that the lore reason came after the now-unneeded gameplay reason. ;w;
Regardless I make them eat and drink in my games. I like to think that's an extra motivation for them. They not eating it's for some reason too much inmersión breaker for me.
Toady will fantasy "dials" or sliders affect species propieties in anyway? I mean, the most mudane of worlds would have elves without the magic and goblins eating? Or those races would be completely removed and only humans would remain at those settings?
This is a magical artifact stool, its magic aura makes humans taller than usual
@Random_Dragon: I located that old bugged save (0.40.24, August 2015), and it actually does contain a reaction to grow logs out of seeds (and I checked that it actually did produce grown wood logs out of a seed). However, I also made a quick elven embark with 0.43.05, and that reaction was not present in that embark.
@Random_Dragon: I located that old bugged save (0.40.24, August 2015), and it actually does contain a reaction to grow logs out of seeds (and I checked that it actually did produce grown wood logs out of a seed). However, I also made a quick elven embark with 0.43.05, and that reaction was not present in that embark.
That...hmm. No way to get that reaction code dumped to view how it works, I assume? I'd love to see that. D:
Question for toady - While we are on the subject might as well ask, what is the material definition/token of grown wood? Or is it purely boolean out of bounds generated by elves?
Question for toady - While we are on the subject might as well ask, what is the material definition/token of grown wood? Or is it purely boolean out of bounds generated by elves?
Fixed.
Pbbbt. I should've known there was some derp going on here. GROWN_ARP is no doubt a tree name added by that mod.
You actually fell for it. >.o
All positive and negative reputations will be associated to that identity for as long as you assume it, unless you screw up.
QuoteAll positive and negative reputations will be associated to that identity for as long as you assume it, unless you screw up.
What do you mean by "screw up"? Would that be claiming multiple identities in the presence of somebody? If I decide to go spy on the goblins by assuming a fake identity, will I need to leave companions behind or risk all my identities being compromised? Will any clothing obscure features enough to allow us to claim multiple identities to the same people?
I imagine bragging about your violent past when you're pretending to be a farmer would count as 'screwing up'.Speaking of that, Will There ever be a way to specify which beast we want to beat about in a conversation? With the current system, we can accidentally brag about killing someone's family, which obviously wouldn't happen on accident on real life.
could we be able to make plaster walls? In mediaval times, most buildings had plaster on them, and it would be cool for humans.
I imagine bragging about your violent past when you're pretending to be a farmer would count as 'screwing up'.Speaking of that, Will There ever be a way to specify which beast we want to beat about in a conversation? With the current system, we can accidentally brag about killing someone's family, which obviously wouldn't happen on accident on real life.
It is hard to go without that rumors (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155262.0) script and the gatherQuests (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155314.msg6714603#msg6714603) script, since they let you condense the descriptions/search for "slew", and automatically spam someone for quest info, respectively.
It is hard to go without that rumors (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155262.0) script and the gatherQuests (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155314.msg6714603#msg6714603) script, since they let you condense the descriptions/search for "slew", and automatically spam someone for quest info, respectively.
What happens to an invading army when it retreats from the player's site? Do all surviving members head back home, teleport there or disappear completely?I'm fairly certain they hoof it back home the same way they came, from having followed invading armies en route, during, and after a siege.
I'm not sure why recipes would require economy, though; wouldn't the civs and cities just use what was available to them?
Yes, recipes can be done without an economy of course, which is why the main reason was probably just time. However, the stuff which Toady presumably thought was most fun about recipes (who knows what that might be, sending out foragers for rare ingredients? tavern popularity based on a balance of great food and price? etc, etc) needs an economy to be much fun.
Same as actual in-game festivals, I guess. Sure, they don't need an economy just to happen, but as a goal for aspiring bards to finally bridge the gap between 'starving begger with a lute' to 'fantasy rock star', the lack of actual money related decisions in the world might make you wonder if it's worth delaying the next release to implement properly.
Since the myth release will seemingly take a long time to finish, do you think that you will break it up into two or more releases?
What is mog juice? What part of the moghopper does it come from?
Ooh, so you could choose how smooth you wanted it.What is mog juice? What part of the moghopper does it come from?
I assume they just throw the whole moghopper in a blender.
Moghoppers can also be captured alive and have mog juice extracted from them.
Once rumors are more thoroughly implemented, will the personality of people who witness an event affect the speed at which a rumor spreads? For example, if I hand off an artifact to a lord and his bodyguards are very gregarious, or lack a sense of duty, would they be more likely to spread the rumor than guards who had the opposite traits? On a related note, would relationship between witnesses and the people involved in an event relate to the speed at which a rumor spreads?
Ooh, so you could choose how smooth you wanted it.What is mog juice? What part of the moghopper does it come from?
I assume they just throw the whole moghopper in a blender.
One mog juice - extra crunchy!
Edit -- Oh boo. Wiki crushes all my dreams...QuoteMoghoppers can also be captured alive and have mog juice extracted from them.
Right now if you add the [STRANGE_MOODS] tag to any race they can show up and make an artifact at your fort but I think they have to be residents first?OK, visiting dwarfs can mood in vanilla then? I guess as residents they can just claim workshops like regular citizens, right?
Right now if you add the [STRANGE_MOODS] tag to any race they can show up and make an artifact at your fort but I think they have to be residents first?
Since the myth release will seemingly take a long time to finish, do you think that you will break it up into two or more releases?
He has confirmed that in the past
In one of the conferences, he talked about an 'initial' stage of the update, that he'll put in before the second one
So yeah, he'll do that
Maybe it's from the liver. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil)What is mog juice? What part of the moghopper does it come from?
I assume they just throw the whole moghopper in a blender.
Since the myth release will seemingly take a long time to finish, do you think that you will break it up into two or more releases?
He has confirmed that in the past
In one of the conferences, he talked about an 'initial' stage of the update, that he'll put in before the second one
So yeah, he'll do that
Oh. Do you know which conference it was?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm familiar with the development plan for the myth/magic release, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that it will be divided up in the links you posted.
We'll start in on an artifact release once the 64-bit versions are complete. We might get away with one release there, but the myth/magic dev items will almost certainly happen over multiple releases, and we won't get to everything on the first pass.
When the development page got updated there was an announcement (devblog probably) Toady said there that it was big, so would probably not all be finished in one go.
Edit-- There we go, June 28th:QuoteWe'll start in on an artifact release once the 64-bit versions are complete. We might get away with one release there, but the myth/magic dev items will almost certainly happen over multiple releases, and we won't get to everything on the first pass.
is there a reason the entity created when an adventurer claims a site has no links back to their parent entity? A fort group has their new entity and a link to the parent civ so the world responds properly, so I tested by going in with dfhack and manually adding those links in, the rest of the world then seemed to respond to my entity in a more normal fashion. Was that "starting from scratch" state intentional, or was it more of a bug/just something you didn't get around to yet?
Is there a plan for travelers to use roads and bridges? Would there some benefit to it? But some risk, such as increased bandit activity? Would players be able to set up a camp on a key bridge or a major highway, and steal from travelers?
Are there plans for companions to need food, as well as travelers on the world map?
What can make a site holy and a target for pilgrimage, aside from artifact relics? Is there anything else right now? Can any sites become holy, or just settlements?
Units have some awareness of the inventory of other units, either in general passing or from actually doing actions like demanding something be dropped or freaking out over drawn weapons. With the artifact awareness you mentioned previously where certain items are more noteworthy, will this also lead to things like dwarves noticing what others are wearing and being jealous/happy/catty, bandits taking a look at a trophy-belt of teeth and well used weapon before deciding to try to roll someone else, and things like out-of-towners showing up with bits of weird clothing and unusual jewelry starting off a chain of gossip?
What are your thoughts on natural non-unique magical items, such as the golden apples from norse mythology and the the dragon's teeth (those that spawned soldiers) from greece mythology?
What do you think of the last guardian as a model for forgotten beasts?
Will the system of Ages change with the myth update? Right now it's based on the number of beasts and mundane creatures in the world and total population proportions of civilized races. How will this change, if at all?
Is the army arc, as a design/timeline conceit, well and truly dead? If so, can we get some sort of post-mortem? In particular, the basic gameplay elements that could make fort mode a bit more strategy-oriented, with players taking a more active governance role and sending out armies (partly composed of hill dwarves) to conquer and stuff. I'm asking now because artifact retrieval seems mechanically related. Will a lot of army arc stuff tie into that? I imagine some will come up in embark scenarios too, and some bits are probably in the no timeline category.
Quote from: UntelligentWith the new identities system, could an adventurer conceivably gain a criminal reputation in a town as one identity, get a hand chopped off by something somewhere else, then go to another town and raise the hand up and claim that you had killed your secret alter ego?Quote from: Max^TMwould it be possible to go around claiming you were responsible for slaying a monster or whatnot as part of a fake identity? Naturally this would run the risk of bumping into someone who had actually done it, or someone who had been attacked by it at some point after you claimed to have bumped it off, I'd suppose.
Three questions regarding needs and their future: can dwarves fulfill all the needs they have in the current version? Are they supposed to be able to do that? How responsible will the player be for fulfilling the dwarves' needs? To specify, will dwarves who want to practice a martial art pick up training weapons by themselves and practice and dwarves who want to wander have a specific task for that et cetera, or will certain needs require player micromanagement in the future?
How will attempting to root out spies in fortress mode be handled, from the player's perspective? If they're given any ability to actively order investigations or interrogate people, which dwarf would be in charge of such things?
Toady will fantasy "dials" or sliders affect species propieties in anyway? I mean, the most mudane of worlds would have elves without the magic and goblins eating? Or those races would be completely removed and only humans would remain at those settings?
While we are on the subject might as well ask, what is the material definition/token of grown wood? Or is it purely a boolean setting & out of bounds thing generated by elves
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSo, now that player fake identities are in, is it possible to assume the identity of a goblin civ member and wander around a dark fortress without everyone freaking out? Will they be suspicious if you're playing a dwarf and there aren't any dwarves living in that civ? And would they just know that you're supposed to be impersonating a goblin civ member the moment you walk into town, or would you have to talk to someone first?Quote from: RockphedWhat do you mean by "screw up"? Would that be claiming multiple identities in the presence of somebody? If I decide to go spy on the goblins by assuming a fake identity, will I need to leave companions behind or risk all my identities being compromised? Will any clothing obscure features enough to allow us to claim multiple identities to the same people?
Will There ever be a way to specify which beast we want to beat about in a conversation? With the current system, we can accidentally brag about killing someone's family, which obviously wouldn't happen on accident on real life.
could we be able to make plaster walls? In mediaval times, most buildings had plaster on them, and it would be cool for humans.
What happens to an invading army when it retreats from the player's site? Do all surviving members head back home, teleport there or disappear completely?
So now that we will be able to send troops to find artifacts outside our fortress, will other fortress do the same while we are playing fortress mode? What about worldgen? Will our tavern be visited by groups of mercs, heroes and others passing by on their quests to retrieve artifacts? Will we face sieges or acute thievery if such artifacts are in our possession?
> In prior comments a few months before the 42.01 update you mentioned a system of natural philosophers scribing down significant animal training level (jump from no knowledge to few facts etc.) as a way to progress & eventually surpass the hard cap of 'expert knowledge' and domesticate the species fully. Would this model of writing down milestones and then having a mooded book as a result be a good example of your current thoughts on future implementation of significant innovations created by scholars with impact to releasing features (such as new reactions etc.) into gameplay?
> Will the library & tavern 'Part 2' forseeably arrive at the same time on the roadmap when you are free of your current developmental focus or in seperate installments so you can focus on them indepth individually (providing a additional museum zone & unfinished new devgoals for museums might not mean that it is extended to a joint part 3)
Since the myth release will seemingly take a long time to finish, do you think that you will break it up into two or more releases?
Once rumors are more thoroughly implemented, will the personality of people who witness an event affect the speed at which a rumor spreads? For example, if I hand off an artifact to a lord and his bodyguards are very gregarious, or lack a sense of duty, would they be more likely to spread the rumor than guards who had the opposite traits? On a related note, would relationship between witnesses and the people involved in an event relate to the speed at which a rumor spreads?
Regarding upcoming worldgen artifact moods:
Will the limit of once per dwarf still apply to worldgen moods? (i.e is this a 'game' limit or a 'lore' limit?)
Will historical dwarves mood in fortress mode if they've previously mooded in worldgen?
whoaa I didn't know planar exploration was on the table for the next batch of releases, I always thought that was a more distant goal.I thought so too.
I think at first, it'll just be adventurer until human sites are playable (meaning, actually playable, not just fake dwarves). To tired to Google fotf reply which mentioned this but it's out there somewhere. Of course the option to turn on humans with dwarf-like tendencies will still exist as a simple mod.
On the other hand (some other fotf reply) 'full fantasy', which also won't feature dwarves, may try to produce a similar underground fortress dwelling race so you can enjoy the site game with them.
Eventually all sites will be playable (and the concept of the 'site' may have evolved quite a bit).
I hope with this good news we will have a release before september ! That would be cool.
Toady, with the artifact release, have you an idea of the future version number ?
I hope with this good news we will have a release before september ! That would be cool.Presumably the next version will be 0.44.01 or 0.45.01 depending on how Toady weighs the big additions of the release.
Toady, with the artifact release, have you an idea of the future version number ?
With how inexplicably ambitious this release keeps getting, I'll be happy with a 2017 release, period. o3o
September is a rather pessimistic guess.
Eh, the guessing game always goes wrong for me. You can have this victory even if you don't have it. :PQuoteSeptember is a rather pessimistic guess.
There will be a group a release beginning in...July, I'd say, with some bugs, until it works. And I think this will be September when it will really work.
September is not so far, actually. If you add just one element "outside" of the Artifact arc (which is, frankly, not so unbelievable, is it ?), this is at least +2 months.
I'll be there to quote myself to prove I'm right ! :)
Has Toady mentioned whether in the first iteration you'll be able to see the tact squads in action in some sort of remote window view or will they simply disappear off screen and then update you on what's happened when/if they later return?From the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html), it'll be the latter - the squad(s?) go off the map, and you'll get their tale when they return (or rumors on their fate if they don't).
Eh, the guessing game always goes wrong for me. You can have this victory even if you don't have it. :P
Thanks Toady
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
The 'sliders' mentioned so far are "fantasy" and "danger". Lack of 'fantasy' will result in human only worlds with no magic or existing Gods. Fantasy at max will result in a crazy mess of random beasties. Neither will feature dwarves.Thanks Toady
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
Dwarves as they presently exist are not based upon magic at all. Elves rely on magic extensively to make items and homes, goblins need magic because they do not need to eat or drink and have the whole relationship with demons thingy at the core of their society formation.
Thanks Toady
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
Dwarves as they presently exist are not based upon magic at all. Elves rely on magic extensively to make items and homes, goblins need magic because they do not need to eat or drink and have the whole relationship with demons thingy at the core of their society formation.
The 'sliders' mentioned so far are "fantasy" and "danger". Lack of 'fantasy' will result in human only worlds with no magic or existing Gods. Fantasy at max will result in a crazy mess of random beasties. Neither will feature dwarves.
Will the myth generated only be 1 version of events like in legends mode? or will other civs and/or races have their own version on how everything was created, with maybe a chance for some of the myths to be somewhat connected, showing that some of those events happened? (like 2 dwarf civs talking about dwarves or other creatures being created by the same thing, showing a connection between those 2 civs)
Will the myth generated only be 1 version of events like in legends mode? or will other civs and/or races have their own version on how everything was created, with maybe a chance for some of the myths to be somewhat connected, showing that some of those events happened? (like 2 dwarf civs talking about dwarves or other creatures being created by the same thing, showing a connection between those 2 civs)
If thats a question for toady, please highlight it in lime green please :)
(next to the right hand side of font size)
As I recall with my handle question, buckets are old and weird, I think minecarts were meant to be more realistic there, and a full minecart is 5416 units of liquid, 2900+ or so is enough to get 7/7 water (or magma wee!!) in a tile when emptied.
So we are starting the Release Pool already?
Dibs on the Captain Releasepool name if we ever get super powers.
0.46.286.70q12So we are starting the Release Pool already?
Dibs on the Captain Releasepool name if we ever get super powers.
0.45.01 for now.
...I think minecarts were meant to be more realistic there, and a full minecart is 5416 units of liquid, 2900+ or so is enough to get 7/7 water (or magma wee!!) in a tile when emptied.Really? I thought the capacity was around 833 units or so.
When ran through water it fills with enough to make 2/7, when filled by interacting with liquid or using a reaction it'll go up to 5416....I think minecarts were meant to be more realistic there, and a full minecart is 5416 units of liquid, 2900+ or so is enough to get 7/7 water (or magma wee!!) in a tile when emptied.Really? I thought the capacity was around 833 units or so.
Surely more than four? There's four pieces left to go, having already completed the other stuff (spies, artifacts moving, artifact wars...).When ran through water it fills with enough to make 2/7, when filled by interacting with liquid or using a reaction it'll go up to 5416....I think minecarts were meant to be more realistic there, and a full minecart is 5416 units of liquid, 2900+ or so is enough to get 7/7 water (or magma wee!!) in a tile when emptied.Really? I thought the capacity was around 833 units or so.
Also guessing 0.48 because it'll be 4 headings with several bits of various important under each.
Will the myth generated only be 1 version of events like in legends mode? or will other civs and/or races have their own version on how everything was created, with maybe a chance for some of the myths to be somewhat connected, showing that some of those events happened? (like 2 dwarf civs talking about dwarves or other creatures being created by the same thing, showing a connection between those 2 civs)I believe Toady has expressed a desire to do so, but also that it might be difficult and weird to do so.
Do you plan for conversation to use a similar system to books? I.e, "Golgar featherlumps give a scathing comeback to your criticism of dynastic bellydancing, with a hint of self-actualization. The crowd erupts in laughter"
Snip.
Snip.
That seems not so much as either a bug, or an outright intended feature, but more of an emergent behavior based on existing needs, origins, etc. as you've suggested. That said, there may be room for balancing that out, or including making new friends as a weighted priority to satisfy friendship needs.
How many 'layers' are there going to be to whole fantasy/violence slider thing? How do things work at the low end of both, for instance in a world with no death what happens if we drop sentient creatures into lava since they there is also no magic to save them from being incinerated. Also would the lowest fantasy setting actually have a world that only has no active gods and magic but no concept of such things either?
The Military Arc is going to be very intresting to impliment. We're seeing the beginnings of it with sending out of Dwarf Squads and the like, but have you given any thought as to what large scale conflicts will look like?
The current combat system seems well suited for squad based combat between 10-20 opponents, but will that scale up to army vs army engagements, assuming the usual DF level of complexity for things like supply lines, baggage trains and hangers-on?
Will the current Seige weapons (Ballista, Catapult) need retooling? Will the long awaited Boats play a part?
sorry for the multiple questions, heh.
3. Yes, current siege weapons certainly need retooling, and would probably benefit from arcs-of-fire, readily available ammunition and destructible buildings, all things that don't exist yet. It seems that the AI can't handle siege weapons yet (probably because of those reasons)
1.Eventually would our adventurers be able to ride in boats for transportation?
2.On particularly large ships could the player move around aboard and below deck while the ship is moving?
3.Will the player be able to own and sail their own boat and maybe hire crew?
1.Eventually would our adventurers be able to ride in boats for transportation?And as I think I just said. Toady explains, in great detail, exactly what he's thinking about boats (and moving fortress parts) in the 10th anniversary video.
2.On particularly large ships could the player move around aboard and below deck while the ship is moving?
3.Will the player be able to own and sail their own boat and maybe hire crew?
1. Will players using the magic of the gods also have to deal with corruption? For example a priest of an ocean god's corruption might be that they constantly drip salt water from their body leaving a trail of saltwater wherever they go.1)The Mythgen introduction indicated various side effects (such 'fading' and 'losing yourself') to using certain magic. And magic effects seem to be related to whichever God or force spewed out your race, so yeah.
2. When the myth and magic update is released will gods be able to inflict sphere specific curses besides the werecurse and vampcurse? For example someone who profanes a god of fish could be cursed to become a scaly fish monster doomed to breath salt water instead of air for the rest of their life.
1. Will players using the magic of the gods also have to deal with corruption? For example a priest of an ocean god's corruption might be that they constantly drip salt water from their body leaving a trail of saltwater wherever they go.
2. When the myth and magic update is released will gods be able to inflict sphere specific curses besides the werecurse and vampcurse? For example someone who profanes a god of fish could be cursed to become a scaly fish monster doomed to breath salt water instead of air for the rest of their life.
Why is DF slow? That is, how aware are you of the performance bottlenecks of the game? Do you as the developer have any special insights into what bottlenecks or weak links exist?It's a combination of many things. Some of which is as simple as poor code which can be improved (certain bugs in pathing of flyers, pets, etc), some of it could be improved through experimentation in multi-threading (but not as easily as some people seem to think and not the big complex parts like pathing). Toady's talked about this a few times (and still people seem to believe he doesn't care, doesn't know what to do about it, is oblivious, etc).
This may have been asked before, but I since dwarven squads will soon be sent off the map to recover artifacts, could we possibly see caravans sent from our forts to other destinations to expand trade, and bring back exotic goods (or get ambushed) and also spread and collect news and reputation information? I ask since plans were mentioned for adv mode characters to lead caravans.Hello New Person.
Adventurers aren't asexual, they're indeterminate, a special case specifically for adventurers. I'm pretty sure I actually wrote into gaydar (the script that you're likely using with DFHack that I wrote) something indicating that their sexuality is indeterminate at some point, hmm.So, what are they when they're retired? Do they gain an orientation, or are they stuck with "adventurer"?
I'm guessing that it's not so much "asexual" as "the player will determine this at some point somehow".
They stay as indeterminate afaik.And does 'undeterminate' prevent retired adventurers from forming relationships and marrying?
Yeah, there's 0 indeterminate, 1 romance male, 2 marry male, 3 romance female, 4 marry female, they can be flipped in any combination with dfhack though I suspect having the first one active will disable the others from working, and generally units only have two of the romance/marry flipped in some combination. I remain both amused and terrified at the idea of df style combat system/reports ending up involved in romance, but having the option to start up romances and even attempt to insinuate yourself into the good graces of some site or civ ruler via marrying in, romancing the ruler, or whatnot with something like the values/emotions interfaces would be fitting with the new angle of spying and such coming in.
In the myth/magic releases it will be possible to generate worlds without dwarves, by setting the fantasy rating high enough to preclude dwarves from spawning. So I guess this means that those worlds will either be adventure mode only, or we will be able to play as generated races in fortress mode. Once this is worked out, would any generated civilization be playable or only certain ones? If the latter, what would the criteria be for a race being playable or not? And would that make the raw-defined races like goblins and humans and elves, etc. playable in fortress mode too?The future is decades away, but yeah the aim eventually is to play 'sites' and 'adventurers' (and perhaps 'whole civ' eventually) without restriction to site type or race. This would require a lot more work though and probably won't happen in the first mythgen release.
~Snip question~
Seems a shame to have these great civs filled with goblins, gorlaks and elephant-men if they'll never come to play (Except their bards and mercenaries).
~snip~
Ok, I know that certain races might get racial magic from the god or force that created them but I have 2 questions about more available magic.Anyone have answers for these questions?
1. Will there be gods that any race can worship and receive divine magic from?
2. Will there be forces that any race can tap into with the proper training to cast magic?
Toady (if anyone). And he'll answer at the end of the month, like always.Ok, I know that certain races might get racial magic from the god or force that created them but I have 2 questions about more available magic.Anyone have answers for these questions?
1. Will there be gods that any race can worship and receive divine magic from?
2. Will there be forces that any race can tap into with the proper training to cast magic?
Would you marry someone if you are not sure what sex are you atracted to? or if you are atracted to nothing at all?They stay as indeterminate afaik.And does 'undeterminate' prevent retired adventurers from forming relationships and marrying?
For multiple races living on the same site you do, your explicit method creates separate settlements only populated by one kind of creature. For all the creatures to live on one site slavery is the easiest option because it folds them immediately into the civilization population count and pushes them directly to become farmers/soldiers. If goblins raid elves, there will be 1 or 10 pointy eared recruits on the next skirmish depending on how fast the new slaves breed or more citizens are captured for the same civilization.
Goblins snowball the more people they enslave & settlements they pillage (which seems to increase the count of goblins each time curiously, if they are 'stealing' food to turn into population, i don't know.) because they get direct supplements to population.
Very easily you can make a 'Dark Elf' race within the same evil entity (flipping a coin on which race will generate in worldgen civ generation), but if the creature values are different they'll see the world differently and at the end of the day they aren't the same civilization as you are and you could have defined a completely separate civ for them to much the same effect.
Here's some more questions regarding the afterlife and architecture:I guess Toady will have more to say later (or not as is usually the case with questions about the future which belong in the suggestions forum, not here). But:
1. If a person is really devoted to a god could that god reincarnate their soul as one of their angels so they could serve them for eternity?
2. Would being killed and resurrected eternally be a possible punishment for a hell like after life plane?
3. Would it be possible that on some hell like planes the souls of the wicked are reformed into demons to wreck chaos and destruction?
4. I know in the myth and magic update there will be an option to create really weird races, my question is would they also get random architecture for their sites? Especially if there are no humans, dwarves, elves, goblins etc.?
5. Also would such randomly generated races also have randomly generated laws, cultural values, government hierarchies etc.?
Do things like regional resurrection interactions work during world-gen? Does it need something like the IS_HIST_STRING1/2 lines? It works fine in play (to my amusement, as I forgot I had experimented with them) but I was hoping to use it to avoid the situations where "gigantic and absurdly tough megabeast was struck down by a camel in the middle of nowhere in 62" type events were permanent.
In the future, could we be able to make our own object testing arenas?There's an editor planned so you'll be able to make whatever you like. It's even in the dev notes. Might be quite a long way in the future though.
Thenk goodness.In the future, could we be able to make our own object testing arenas?There's an editor planned so you'll be able to make whatever you like. It's even in the dev notes. Might be quite a long way in the future though.
Your adventurer can now name any of their legally-nameable objects (so e.g. no arrow stacks, but you can name individual arrows).
Has Toady mentioned whether in the first iteration you'll be able to see the tact squads in action in some sort of remote window view or will they simply disappear off screen and then update you on what's happened when/if they later return?From the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html), it'll be the latter - the squad(s?) go off the map, and you'll get their tale when they return (or rumors on their fate if they don't).
Thenk goodness.In the future, could we be able to make our own object testing arenas?There's an editor planned so you'll be able to make whatever you like. It's even in the dev notes. Might be quite a long way in the future though.
I mean, there's an actual editor, for creating worlds and sites to your exact specifications in the works.Thenk goodness.In the future, could we be able to make our own object testing arenas?There's an editor planned so you'll be able to make whatever you like. It's even in the dev notes. Might be quite a long way in the future though.
Again, already in the game. data/init/arena.txt
What other things besides artifacts will we be able to send our armies after in the first release? Books? Historical items? Beasts and people (i.e., capture/assassinate)?Iirc, last one would tie more with the army arc, and there's no fixed time for that
Sending out squads is directly part of the army arc. It's just up to Toady if he considers adding 'slay a monster' squads to the regular artifact recovery squads as low hanging fruit for this release. Interested in this answer myself. I imagine it's more difficult than it seems. Especially as Npcs were specifically not given slay-a-beast quests.
It's been said that artifacts will only be able to wear down or break under certain conditions, but a what about regular items that an adventurer turns into artifacts after worldgen? Will they follow the same rules as traditional artifacts?
Yeah, I still am surprised that we are getting such ammount of npc action so soon
You really have to consider many many things when making them quite autonomous as Toady wants them to be. His dev. logs reflect this, and the bugs that come will surely be hilarious, but I wonder if everything will come out fine for the next release
SO toady, when will we be able to join new religions in adventure mode again and why was it taken out?No idea about why, but as to when, religion is about to get a massive revamp. Take a look at the dev notes. Nothing about the current religion system looks like it's going to survive.
SO toady, when will we be able to join new religions in adventure mode again and why was it taken out?eh, as of now, it doesnt serve any purpose besides roleplaying, so he probably didnt think much of adding that option for now
I realize this would require a LOT of fine-tuning, i.e guards in a predominantly human town being suspicious if an animal person or goblin wearing a bloodstained uniform would show up demanding to be let in - even humans from another civilization would probably have to raise suspicions, as the game does keep track of different population infos regarding traits like skin, hair and eye colour.
~snop~
If that last bit ever gets added, literally the first thing that'll happen is a bug report about a hearthperson getting attacked by their comrades because the player hit "randomize appearance without respecting population info" when creating a character. :V
~snop~
If that last bit ever gets added, literally the first thing that'll happen is a bug report about a hearthperson getting attacked by their comrades because the player hit "randomize appearance without respecting population info" when creating a character. :V
And after the bug gets resolved the players would instead wonder why there adventure always start with only one parent to find out they got a divorce because their dad didn't believe their mom that it was their child because of the random genetics.
~snop~~double snop~
And after the bug gets resolved the players would instead wonder why there adventure always start with only one parent to find out they got a divorce because their dad didn't believe their mom that it was their child because of the random genetics.
That would actually be pretty hilarious
I was also gonna say that it'd sad if all adventurers got divorced parents, but then I remembered that none of the adventurers we can play now have any family to speak off, so it's alright
Lol, I didn't even think of potential early, hilarious bugs that could come from that. These are great.
Lol, I didn't even think of potential early, hilarious bugs that could come from that. These are great.
Lol, I didn't even think of potential early, hilarious bugs that could come from that. These are great.
Hilarious, and hilariously stupid, bugs are why I play this game some days.
I can't think of many games that have no bugs despite being in "final" versions and costing actual money. Wouldn't worry too much about it. It's a long, long way away and they said they'll most likely continue working on it after version 1.0.Lol, I didn't even think of potential early, hilarious bugs that could come from that. These are great.
Hilarious, and hilariously stupid, bugs are why I play this game some days.
Sometimes I feel a bit anxious thinking about how the finished version of this game will (supposedly) have no bugs, and be perfected in most ways, without secret stuff for us to discover
Then I remember that botes, parallel universe travels, law and justice and real theology are things confirmed for this last version and I just feel okay
Apologies for the double-post. Guess I'm in a slow time zone or something...
So, sites will have these 'invisible bulletin boards' of quests for npcs to pick up, right? Will retired player fortresses also get these? It would be nice to see my old dorfs going out artifact hunting by themselves while I'm away.
When I imagine a siege invader demanding an artifact in Dwarf Mode, I see it as the game pauses, you get the prompt (like a forgotten beast announcement) and you must accept or refuse the demand immediately.Realistically would you know how many enemy there are?
Don't know if it's been said already, but if siege invaders demand an artifact, you should...
A) Alongside the demand prompt, be provided a rough status report on number of units, level of gear, and how screwed you may or may not be.
B) Actually be allowed a small amount of time between the demand and the actual player decision, allowing one to survey the invaders manually.
That'll have to start next month -- in a few days I'll be leaving for GDC. It was healthy for Bay 12 when I went there for the first time last year, so I figured I give it another go. I'll be back on the 4th, so there will be a delay on the monthly report and the Future of the Fortress reply.
By my crude calculations, we are probably actually getting this update on the first week of august, aprox.QuoteThat'll have to start next month -- in a few days I'll be leaving for GDC. It was healthy for Bay 12 when I went there for the first time last year, so I figured I give it another go. I'll be back on the 4th, so there will be a delay on the monthly report and the Future of the Fortress reply.
Anyone hyped for DF2018 yet? o3o
@Kitsune: Given that adventurers' sexual preferences are undetermined currently, there's no risk/chance of kids being abandoned, and I don't see the upcoming release having any particular reason to address that issue.
~snap~
~snop~
Maybe. I recall someone's guessed july, another's guessed september, and I've said I'll be happy if we get a 2017 update at all.
Place your bets, I guess.
Maybe. I recall someone's guessed july, another's guessed september, and I've said I'll be happy if we get a 2017 update at all.
@Kitsune
Your energetic behaviour fills me with determination!
How far off are forts being able to send requests for monster hunters or groups of mercenaries to show up at the fort?Doesn't seem very important to be able to request mercs right now. Open an inn and hundreds turn up whether you want them or not.
Will player forts be able to offer quests to visitors?
Seeing as there's been a bit of inaction from invaders since the world came alive will there be actions within a fort that can cause invaders to show up more often?
Has the Loyalty cascade bug been addressed at all given that there was something like that with the guard and the lord or might this issue be dealt with in the future?
Some might have been asked, I'm more looking forward to the Fortress Starting Scenarios then massive magic one. I just want pointless laws and a dysfunctional society.
I hope Toady One answers my questions in his upcoming Future of the Fortress reply.he doesnt usually leave many of them unanswered
In the current version, once you found a fortress near a goblin civ, they declare war on your civilization and usually end up decimating them. Sometimes goblins also declare war on nearby human and elf civs, conquer their sites and make you unable to trade with them.Goblins are supposed to be EVIL and are lead by demon masters. Somehow they've also taken on the role of somewhat ordinary civ building creatures, though. On the civ level they're out to enslave everyone else, as directed by their masters, while on the individual level they have somewhat barbaric original customs and inherent nasty traits, but aren't out of place as members of other civs (such as the cannibalistic elves or constantly in-fighting humans). The odd thing is rather that goblins frequently are at peace with the elves and/or humans you are in contact with, while they really ought to be at the --- "not currently at war" stage.
So, two questions: why do goblins declare war on your civ if you settle near them and what makes goblins so successful in conquest post-world gen?
In the current version, once you found a fortress near a goblin civ, they declare war on your civilization and usually end up decimating them. Sometimes goblins also declare war on nearby human and elf civs, conquer their sites and make you unable to trade with them.
So, two questions: why do goblins declare war on your civ if you settle near them and what makes goblins so successful in conquest post-world gen?
Hmm. What'd also be interesting is if the coins had values more comparable to some historical standards, like the classic Roman "1 aureus = 25 denarii" value for gold and silver coins.
I don't think you'll get a clear answer for this. He doesn't keep a schedule.Hmm. What'd also be interesting is if the coins had values more comparable to some historical standards, like the classic Roman "1 aureus = 25 denarii" value for gold and silver coins.
I must recognize that procedurally generated currency exchanges and banks related affairs really make me giggle from pure excitedness
I wonder just how far away does Toady think the economy update is?
I don't think you'll get a clear answer for this. He doesn't keep a schedule.
Last clear "plan" was 'boats before economy' which will follow 'Scenarios' (massive law, society, politics arc). Before that Myths and magic. Assuming a year plus 6 months bugs/minor updates per release, multiple releases for magic and scenarios, that makes it roughly 10 years from now. That's assuming small releases. Which alternate dimensions won't be...
I have a impromptu answer to this question, goblins are set to a hostile default (because of babysnatcher prefix) and often the civ (human, elves) are the aggressor because goblins have abhorrent ethical standards (treatment of animals/plants/eating of bodies etc.) as when goblins attack nearby settlement (attacking dwarfs who almost never call aggressive wars) they have their own motives based more in politics rather than ethics.
> In a defensive war, every time a village is sacked by goblins it collectively makes the goblins stronger and the opposing side weaker, i don't know precisely why but the amount of goblins increases (you could say this is population management saying pillaging = more food/wealth increase the pop cap) usually goblins hold out well enough to starve the wars off or remain stifled and don't do anything for the remaining of worldgen.
- I've personally seen goblins swing wars through successive pillages to raise armies and start to slog and overwhelm the opposition when given a numerical advantage, humans do much the same though they are numerous anyway, hence successful at dominating late-game world generation.
If post-artifact update we gained more elaborate negotiation as well as player input to diplomatic decisions (formal agreement being to hand over a artifact on threat of war, then denying it by locking it in the room past the deadline), we might understand more about the reasons goblins get triggered to commit to wars themselves without obvious ethical conflicts (goblins inhibit 'evil' spheres, adding more primary spheres doesn't do much for them behaviorally though its a interesting thing to do.)
- Just to remember that if a race is hostile, until acted on with a 'casus belli' there is effectively a uneasy truce between them and all other races.
If you unset the ability to not eat, and instead make them carnivorous (goblins are already bone carnivores and eat food just fine) i find there is no difference to goblin population in relevance to the hardiness of them because they carry food (trolls/beak dogs) which are replenished via common domestic wherever they go. (Plus no biome supp numbers, just a base of 1)
Using the pillaging example, "Stolen Wealth = Food = Population growth -> More animals = Small increment to total Wealth & Population sustainability", when that formula goes wrong you see spirals of population even beyond the defined cap of a site as the civ becomes immensely wealthy via a mix of labor created items (big dark fortresses have great stashes of discarded goblinite because of defined space for weapons piles the civ fills up from invaders & dead soldiers/production) animals increase and obviously each member of the civ must be clothed adding to value.
Besides kobolds or thieves/site being routed and finished there is no natural way to divide up that value or detract from it.
Hmm. What'd also be interesting is if the coins had values more comparable to some historical standards, like the classic Roman "1 aureus = 25 denarii" value for gold and silver coins.
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]The thing about goblins is that during world gen they do decently, but as soon as play begins they tend to go on a rampage and conquer half of the world. I think it might have something to do with the fact that wars in general are more common post-world gen.Good. All the more armies to face my drunken horde as they defend my wooden camp.
The thing about goblins is that during world gen they do decently, but as soon as play begins they tend to go on a rampage and conquer half of the world. I think it might have something to do with the fact that wars in general are more common post-world gen.
Without meaning to derail too much into 'goblin mechanics', i can agree its not a sole factor but [BABYSNATCHER] does in play automatically single goblins out into a factional group, for example even with amicable ethics the goblins would still be hostile. Other babysnatcher civs can trade & maintain good relationships with goblins even if they agree to disagree on key topics as long as it doesn't slide too far.
Similar case study is seen in the kobold civilisations, which are KOS and can trade with other similarly aligned civilisations infact its a core mechanic of the Masterwork mod.
> Issue is localised to market settlements (fortresses, towns, retreats, dark towers) for exceeding the 10,000 cap and 120 base per site cap 0007526: Dark towers contain thousands of goblins and trolls, causing lag (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7526) indeed there may be a lot of off screen goblins but there are a lot presented on the site. From experience, without expedition nobles, goblins are not fond on making new market site towers, lots of 'hamlet' level mini settlements doesn't flesh out the problem well enough.
> If you remember the horsepocalpyse animals had to be toned down because of over-population - Also carnivorous civilisations previously in worldgen used to starve but via use of cavern animals (which is now 1 super-region with thousands of regenerating animals) they have a lot of food to eat. The stolen food arguement comes from natural growth of a population hitting 120 with its animals and stopping vs, artificially getting bloated then not hard-capping to a halt, as the formula has already reached past the cap and continues to grow since they don't exactly become sterile, just have a lot of second cousins and large families.
> Trolls are huge (big as polar bear men thick with tallow fat) & beak dogs give eggs & meat, foodwise there's plenty but they also supplement their diet with eating sentient enemies, so conquering others is a non-issue foodwise. If trolls & beak dogs were non-domestic they'd have more of a issue with a nessecity to eat given that they also can hunt for animals in the surrounding area & caverns but those are finite resources.
Hmm. What'd also be interesting is if the coins had values more comparable to some historical standards, like the classic Roman "1 aureus = 25 denarii" value for gold and silver coins.Code: [Select][CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
already in the game
Question for toady, in the later stages of the artifact retrieval groups (post implementation when you might have the opportunity to polish them up/bugsquash or add new things for them to do) will we see the 'tactics' skill reserved usually for military commanders become useful? If you could trust someone to lead a siege & troops successfully, a masterful tactician might be able to co-ordinate some hand picked civilians to survive & approach a dangerous reclaimation target more easily.
> One more question related to the above. Are 'creatures' or dwarves with either natural/acquired sneaking skills (along like factors like size profile, time of day to do the deed etc usually in adventure sneaking menu detail) like civilian gremlins or veteran hunters any better than large creatures/soldiers who can just take the object by force quite bluntly, intimidating or fighting anybody that tries to stop them?
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
Toady, with the artifact release, have you an idea of the future version number ?
Has Toady mentioned whether in the first iteration you'll be able to see the tact squads in action in some sort of remote window view or will they simply disappear off screen and then update you on what's happened when/if they later return?
Will the myth generated only be 1 version of events like in legends mode? or will other civs and/or races have their own version on how everything was created, with maybe a chance for some of the myths to be somewhat connected, showing that some of those events happened? (like 2 dwarf civs talking about dwarves or other creatures being created by the same thing, showing a connection between those 2 civs)
Do you plan for conversation to use a similar system to books? I.e, "Golgar featherlumps give a scathing comeback to your criticism of dynastic bellydancing, with a hint of self-actualization. The crowd erupts in laughter"
How many 'layers' are there going to be to whole fantasy/violence slider thing? How do things work at the low end of both, for instance in a world with no death what happens if we drop sentient creatures into lava since they there is also no magic to save them from being incinerated. Also would the lowest fantasy setting actually have a world that only has no active gods and magic but no concept of such things either?
The Military Arc is going to be very intresting to impliment. We're seeing the beginnings of it with sending out of Dwarf Squads and the like, but have you given any thought as to what large scale conflicts will look like?
The current combat system seems well suited for squad based combat between 10-20 opponents, but will that scale up to army vs army engagements, assuming the usual DF level of complexity for things like supply lines, baggage trains and hangers-on?
1.Eventually would our adventurers be able to ride in boats for transportation?
2.On particularly large ships could the player move around aboard and below deck while the ship is moving?
3.Will the player be able to own and sail their own boat and maybe hire crew?
1. Will there be gods that any race can worship and receive divine magic from?
2. Will there be forces that any race can tap into with the proper training to cast magic?
This may have been asked before, but I since dwarven squads will soon be sent off the map to recover artifacts, could we possibly see caravans sent from our forts to other destinations to expand trade, and bring back exotic goods (or get ambushed) and also spread and collect news and reputation information? I ask since plans were mentioned for adv mode characters to lead caravans.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerI know it's not directly related to artifacts, but now that we've been playing fairly successfully with non-dwarf visitors for a while, are you going to allow non-dwarf citizens to arrive with migrants in the next release (or even the starting 7)? Or is that more complex than it seems and something that'll need to wait until Scenarios or whenever a major migrant revamp is due?
Seems a shame to have these great civs filled with goblins, gorlaks and elephant-men if they'll never come to play (Except their bards and mercenaries).Quote from: LordBaalToady, does a ingame mechanic about inmigrants control is planned? Like the orders from the menu, manager or nobles, where you can select:
Inmigrans:
-Allow everyone.
-Allow only dwarves.
-Allow only dwarves from own civilization.
-Allow selected races and/or civilizations. (With a sub menu where you select which races and civilizationa are allowed from a list of known ones).
-Allow none.
-Build a wall and make the goblins pay.
Or perhaps it could function as mandates too, where the ruling noble forbid Bullmen to enter the fortress because a bullmen or minotaurs killed his/her parents, or anything along those lines?
As to the above point will at any point in the future AI adventurers may be able to retire from a life of adventuring *ideally for good* (after a crippling injury, success/failure, marriage etc.) so they can just join the normal civilian life?
Does the abstracted passage of time outside Fortress and Adventure mode take into consideration pathing structures built by the player?
For a better explanation of what I'm getting at -- I have a map where there are two main continents, both populated with a variety of civilizations. At one point, the two coastlines come within a single map tile of each other. If I build a bridge linking the two continents, will the civilizations utilize it and begin establishing trade and diplomatic contacts with each other across the bridge? Either in Fortress Mode, or if I retire the fortress and go do other stuff for a few years?
1. If a person is really devoted to a god could that god reincarnate their soul as one of their angels so they could serve them for eternity?
2. Would being killed and resurrected eternally be a possible punishment for a hell like after life plane?
3. Would it be possible that on some hell like planes the souls of the wicked are reformed into demons to wreck chaos and destruction?
Do things like regional resurrection interactions work during world-gen? Does it need something like the IS_HIST_STRING1/2 lines? It works fine in play (to my amusement, as I forgot I had experimented with them) but I was hoping to use it to avoid the situations where "gigantic and absurdly tough megabeast was struck down by a camel in the middle of nowhere in 62" type events were permanent.
Will (Non-Player) adventurers ever abandon their quests? - Or fail without the ending result be their death?
What other things besides artifacts will we be able to send our armies after in the first release? Books? Historical items? Beasts and people (i.e., capture/assassinate)?
is the "See Great Beast" need supposed to be fulfilled by talking to any historical figure, or was that a placeholder for a point where a unit can recognize that they are looking at a semi/megabeast type of critter? Similarly is there a specific trigger for the "See Animal" and "Wander" needs? I've never been able to figure out exactly why they end up fulfilled sometimes, being around animals and roaming in the middle of nowhere doesn't do it consistently.
Non-magic related - will towns and the like have restricted, guarded areas where civilians and outsiders aren't allowed to enter? Treasuries, armories, or other vital structures.
Tying into that - will the guards of a group that controls the site have their own uniforms with specific symbols? Could allow the player to sneak past guards and so on.
So, sites will have these 'invisible bulletin boards' of quests for npcs to pick up, right? Will retired player fortresses also get these? It would be nice to see my old dorfs going out artifact hunting by themselves while I'm away.
Toady, how will player adventurer named items be treated in a player fortress? Would they just be treated as another unique blue named item in the artifact screen?
How far off are forts being able to send requests for monster hunters or groups of mercenaries to show up at the fort?
Will player forts be able to offer quests to visitors?
How does identities impact factions and loyalties?
With the advent of the new mentioned "sending folks off the map" for artifact fetching situations, will we see more discrete explicit strategic interactions come into play in concerns with nearby sites and their holders, or is that for another release cycle? For instance, making deliberate diplomatic demands/requests to groups associated with nearby sites, as well as receiving them likewise.
what makes goblins so successful in conquest post-world gen?
Question for Toady, if you were to tally up (for ease sake omitting value of the walls and value per discovered floorspace) the cost of a hillock or world-gen fortress based on its founding furniture, how many units of Urist would it cost to 'buy' a prebuilt settlement?
can war animals/pets follow their owners when they're sent away? Can we beef up our recovery squad by assigning them a bunch of war dogs?
Will artifacts at adventurer sites attract actual invaders (besides npc artifact hunters)? How about megabeasts?
How moddable will the ability to send squads out into the field be?
Will units have a chance to be injured/die? Will the combat be handled like world-gen combat or will there be actual background combats happening?
Just all of the named items, including the booksSo we can finally retrieve all those books visitors steal from the library? That's one way of fixing the bug I guess :P
Quote from: Eric Blankcan war animals/pets follow their owners when they're sent away? Can we beef up our recovery squad by assigning them a bunch of war dogs?
I haven't done it yet, but presumably they'll even carry their babies off the map right now. Hopefully everything will go okay!
They need to figure out that they are there, which is pretty hard right now, maybe. You'd have to blab about it, or have your companion go back to town or something, after the artifact is in place. There's a very low chance you could somehow luck into some gob squads coming after your site, but that'd require the artifact to be one that the demon/gob leader is interested in. So if you steal a gob civ artifact, bring it back to your cabin, and then start telling everybody where it is, and an agent hears it, you might arrange for it. There's not enough feedback right now to make that a satisfying process though.Ooh. I know how I'm spending my first few adventurers then. Should be easy enough to ensure rumours reach the gobbo hordes with the new secret identity ability. Just go tell them about it myself.
The guys answered you in the comments immediately below instead. Toady ain't got anything to add.
Thanks for the answers!QuoteJust all of the named items, including the booksSo we can finally retrieve all those books visitors steal from the library? That's one way of fixing the bug I guess :P
Also, a question for next time: will there be raws for hunger and thirst, so you can modify the amount of food and water a creature needs?
I noticed that in fortress mode you generally only get invaded by the closest single site of any civilization you are near. I postulate this may be the chief cause of the lackluster sieges. is there any plan to allow multiple sites from the same civ, or multiple same-race civs to interact with the player fort?Visitors from various civs already interact with your fortress. In the next release, entities with claims on your artifacts should also (apparently) send armies to fetch them. (As far as I can tell anyway. I asked about this directly a while ago but have since been told my question was open to interpretation so Toady's positive reply didn't mean anything).
It's unlikely the regular siege draft mechanics are going to be revised any time soon. Unless it's more or less a trivial consequence of the introduction of artifact retrieval sieges, the earliest you can hope for is starting scenarios, and more probably warfare improvements (which is currently beyond the horizon).Being attracted by artifacts is the point of this arc. Why bother implementing diplomacy if nobody's ever going to come and claim their right to your artifacts? Except in the minuscule chance that the closest site of goblins to you has some kind of claim of course.
I think you misunderstood what I tried to say: I don't think the ability to draw the members of a single siege from multiple sites to yield a reasonably sized siege will be implemented unless it's either trivial to do or somehow required for artifact sieges to function. I view that as distinct from the introduction of multiple sites being able to each initiate their own sieges drawn from their own populations.
However, rereading wooks' post, I think I, in turn, might have misunderstood that question...
Eagerly awaiting next month's answer...
No it doesn't, as wooks' question is marked in green already, and that's what's under discussion.I think you misunderstood what I tried to say: I don't think the ability to draw the members of a single siege from multiple sites to yield a reasonably sized siege will be implemented unless it's either trivial to do or somehow required for artifact sieges to function. I view that as distinct from the introduction of multiple sites being able to each initiate their own sieges drawn from their own populations.
However, rereading wooks' post, I think I, in turn, might have misunderstood that question...
Eagerly awaiting next month's answer...
Needs to be written in green.
I think you misunderstood what I tried to say: I don't think the ability to draw the members of a single siege from multiple sites to yield a reasonably sized siege will be implemented unless it's either trivial to do or somehow required for artifact sieges to function. I view that as distinct from the introduction of multiple sites being able to each initiate their own sieges drawn from their own populations.Oh, I see what you mean now. One siege made up of goblins from lots of different sites? Yeah, that's pretty advanced. I was actually thinking about putting that up in the suggestions forum. One main goblin army with a claim on your artifacts which recruits/attracts troops from other sites as they pass through them on the way to your site (along with beasts from lairs and such). Varying degrees of success depending on your wealth and general reputation. That'd be awesome. But, as you say, probably beyond the scope of this release.
However, rereading wooks' post, I think I, in turn, might have misunderstood that question...
Eagerly awaiting next month's answer...
Why is DF slow? That is, how aware are you of the performance bottlenecks of the game? Do you as the developer have any special insights into what bottlenecks or weak links exist?Shonai_Dweller attempted to give an answer, but his answer was useless to me because it tell me nothing about what Toady thinks.
I'm disappointed that my question wasn't answered:Go watch the videos and interviews with Tarn where he talks about this. He doesn't go into great technical detail (presumably because he doesn't want to) but he specifically says he is aware of the bottlenecks and has a list of many things that need addressing.Why is DF slow? That is, how aware are you of the performance bottlenecks of the game? Do you as the developer have any special insights into what bottlenecks or weak links exist?Shonai_Dweller attempted to give an answer, but his answer was useless to me because it tell me nothing about what Toady thinks.
When are digging critters planned on being implemented.?
I think I've seen those videos, but I always want to know moreI'm disappointed that my question wasn't answered:Go watch the videos and interviews with Tarn where he talks about this. He doesn't go into great technical detail (presumably because he doesn't want to) but he specifically says he is aware of the bottlenecks and has a list of many things that need addressing.Why is DF slow? That is, how aware are you of the performance bottlenecks of the game? Do you as the developer have any special insights into what bottlenecks or weak links exist?Shonai_Dweller attempted to give an answer, but his answer was useless to me because it tell me nothing about what Toady thinks.
If you need more technical insight into his coding methods you're probably better off using email. This thread is mainly about upcoming developments.
Presumably somewhere after multi tile machinery, and probably in conjunction with better sieges (and armies) overall. Digging enemies ought to show up together with working siege machinery (that can be aimed in directions different from the cardinals, as well as at different Z levels), ladders, ladder towers, and battering rams on the attacker side, and working catapults/ballistae, cauldrons of boiling oil, tactics for caving in, burning, and smoking out sappers on the defense side.When are digging critters planned on being implemented.?
I'm gonna hope and pray it'll have entity token so I can inevitably disable it. ;w;
QuoteQuote from: Daniel the Finlander
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
To confirm what somebody else said, we're definitely going to have dwarf-free worlds on both end of the spectrum. We're going to try to make fortress mode playable since it's the more complete mode of the game, but if that makes the mundane worlds too weird trying to shoehorn that in before we get to proper human village management, we might just leave it out.
QuoteAbout non-dwarf migrant wavesWe're getting closer, but I think it'd still be kind of confusing with some more exposition if you suddenly got nothing but humans or jumping spider people for your first migrant wave the first time you play the game.
If there's no dwarves in your world, it's not going to randomly generate them out of thin air just for you to play fortress. That kind of defies the point creating a mundane world and would be a massive step backwards in the development of the simulation...QuoteQuoteQuote from: Daniel the Finlander
So mundane worlds won't have elves or goblins, but will they have dwarves? If not, will fortress mode even be playable, or will we be able to play as humans instead?
To confirm what somebody else said, we're definitely going to have dwarf-free worlds on both end of the spectrum. We're going to try to make fortress mode playable since it's the more complete mode of the game, but if that makes the mundane worlds too weird trying to shoehorn that in before we get to proper human village management, we might just leave it out.
What I would do in this case is have dwarves be "extinct" so if you are starting a fortress in mundane mode, you are always the only dwarf fortress in the world.
I agree with Shonai_Dweller that generating a dwarf free world and then add dwarves to it would defeat the purpose of generating such worlds. It's highly unlikely Toady would waste time on such a temporary feature when that time could be spent towards getting human settlements to be playable (even if it doesn't get as far as reaching that goal in that release).Man, that "Scenarios release" is going to be massive, isn't it? Whenever something comes up which isn't economy reliant it's "the scenarios release will deal with it"! I reckon at least 3 releases just to get a first pass through everything. Kind of the way "Npc Artifacts" seemed to just explode into 'creation of the universe, world editors and magic (and npc artifacts)'. All very exciting stuff.
Migrant control would probably fit fairly well with the stuff done with embark scenarios, so that's where I'd look for those kind of features.
Just going to have to wait until human towns and villages are playable to play sites in mundane worlds.
4. Mock up flavor-accurate equivalents to generated human positions. This is hard without string dumps to get an idea of what the generated positions do, and you may still have to take some guesswork for gameplay reasons or for flavor. For example, when I mocked up lords I didn't give them a dining room requirement, because lords reside in mead halls, so it'd be logical to assume the human norm is to dine with ones hearthpeople and honored guests.
Meeting a dining room requirement actually does not prohibit the lord from sharing his dining room with the whole village.
The big part is adding the tools so that the game actually makes sense. Humans live in houses, not carved out spaces.Just going to have to wait until human towns and villages are playable to play sites in mundane worlds.
Thing is, that is unbelievably trivial to mod in, so imagining what it'd look like in hardcoded format isn't that much of a brain-melter. Lemme give some examples I've observed in the process of making a (currently unreleased) human mod, in increasing order of effort:
1. Just make the dwarven civ use humans instead of dwarves. Only makes sense if you're absurdly lazy or want a low-fantasy world that still has a cave-dwelling entity as the playable civ.
2. Move the playable token from dwarves to humans. Like all non-playable civs they lack positions, so you're fucked if an invasion arrives, or you need to trade, or you want to commit justice, etc. But they're by far the most playable out of the box, especially compared to elves (no way to produce wood without more modding) or worse, KOBOLDS (your citizens get classified as pets and can't have their labors changed).
3. Give a playable version of the human civ direct equivalents to dwarven positions. Assuming you go the whole hog and replace generated non-site positions like the law-giver, the only thing you lose is flavor.
4. Mock up flavor-accurate equivalents to generated human positions. This is hard without string dumps to get an idea of what the generated positions do, and you may still have to take some guesswork for gameplay reasons or for flavor. For example, when I mocked up lords I didn't give them a dining room requirement, because lords reside in mead halls, so it'd be logical to assume the human norm is to dine with ones hearthpeople and honored guests.
5. Commit sorcery and get generated positions to behave properly in fortress mode, and actually show up as valid positions. This is basically what Toady would have to do to make option 4 occur automatically in low-fantasy worlds.
Wanting to play as a human fortress in a human world in Dwarf Fortress doesn't make sense to me. Opening some kind of cosmic rift from the dwarf realm into the human realm and preaching the way of booze, minecarts and magma does sound like a cool premise for a fortress.Dwarf Fortress is an unfortunate name (kind of like Crusader Kings - those forums are full of "what does China have to do with crusaders?" fights too.).
The big part is adding the tools so that the game actually makes sense. Humans live in houses, not carved out spaces.
Yes, you can use dwarf wall and roof constructions to actually put together a house, but it makes no sense as a game. In a real human settlement game you choose "carpenter's workshop" and your workers put together an actual building in which a carpenter would work. No human based game would leave the default as 'workbench left out in the rain'.
I said it was unbelievably trivial to MOD it in, for fucks sake. I then said that existing ability to mod humans to be playable would give you a rough idea of what an actual "play as humans" mode might look like, and recounted some of the hurdles I encountered along the way.
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller on March 10, 2017, 08:16:45 am
Just going to have to wait until human towns and villages are playable to play sites in mundane worlds.
Thing is, that is unbelievably trivial to mod in, so imagining what it'd look like in hardcoded format isn't that much of a brain-melter. Lemme give some examples I've observed in the process of making a (currently unreleased) human mod, in increasing order of effort:
Ok. Sorry about that. Result of reading text in the wrong tone of voice I guess.
This exchange seemed to me that you were dismissing my assumption that we'd have to wait a while for playable human villages as most of what it involves is unbelievably simple to mod (which I disagreed with, as there's a lot more needed beyond what we're able to mod right now).
I love that even though they're not in the fortress, Dorfs can still annoy us by suddenly going Socialize! when they're supposed to be doing something important.
Hmmm, could a squad sent off map lose members and wind up with a single survivor, and if so, could that survivor get beat up by bogeymen?Do visitors get attacked by bogeymen on the way to your fortress right now?
The economy, prices of goods and trade is an obvious answer. Right now its all pretty much scripted. The variation in price is scripted, not a function of actual supply and demand. And its on the dev page for future updates already.
Incorrect in game terms, sadly. Mechanically, far as I can tell citizens will never use a dining room assigned to someone else, and people with an assigned dining room will favor it over an unassigned one. And assigning a dining room is how you meet the room requirement.
Thus, dwarven nobles always dine alone. :V
Hmmm, could a squad sent off map lose members and wind up with a single survivor, and if so, could that survivor get beat up by bogeymen?Do visitors get attacked by bogeymen on the way to your fortress right now?
Seems to be just an adventurer thing.
Couple questionsYes, diseases and plagues are planned (Bloat144 on here (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html), among others), and were almost in 0.31.01, but were among the features to get cut in favor of a release. The deadly diseases would certainly be able to wipe out cities and civs (this may be more common at higher deadliness world settings), though the economic and cultural consequences may not be part of the same (set of) release(s).
1. Are epidemics something you want to simulate? Could a world have their very own version of a bubonic plague that could completely wipe out races and also cause a higher demand for soap and disease resistance clothing and medical professions? (i.e. Plague Doctors outfit/usage)
2. Do you plan on adding/simulating hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, or blizzards?Weather improvements like hurricanes are on the page I linked above in the long-term arcs (though that may or may not be accurate anymore), and Toady has mentioned other catastrophes as well such as here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg7073587#msg7073587) as a "Sure, but no timeline" (I think he also mentioned that they should be "fun" in some way rather than a game-over button).
They will never use a chair or a bed assigned to somebody else, but they are fine with sharing the room with infinity+1 other folks. That is because the dining/bedroom/tomb areas are attached to the furniture but can overlap with any number of other such room designations of any time. Talking from experience I have never, ever given my nobles separate dining rooms but have simply given them their own chair in the dining hall that everybody else uses. That way everybody else has more a more valuable dining room at the same time and I do not have to recreate everything over again. Nobles eating in their office is however a social problem sometimes though, which is why it is best to have all nobles share the same office as well.
1. Will offsite squads be able to destroy, pillage, or conquer sites or just take artifacts.As Toady said last month. Not at first. Attacking stuff is hard. This release is about artifact hunting.
During world time, (or after) does older dragons have better chance to survive an encounter than younger ones ?If I'm not mistaken, seeing as dragons gradually get larger as they age (up to a cap), assuming the dragon didn't start off at full-grown age, it'll gradually get bigger and thusly become a stronger combatant for the combat simulations that take place during worldgen.
Did we get any reply in DF Suggestions?Every single suggestion is read and noted by Toady. There are more than 14000 threads there, he's not going to comment on them. Because pretty much every time the answer will be. "Yeah, cool, one day, no schedule." Same as you get here when you ask questions about the far future.
I'd be surprised if it was "no way" given the 1400 cutoff. In order to exclude gunpowder the cutoff would be back in the early middle ages, before the Tang dynasty, so no 2 hand swords or plate cuirasses either.Well, like I say, I don't recall the original comments much. They were quite probably just a false rumour mentioned by someone like the many ancient 'Toady hates modders' and 'Toady hates sex' rumours which somehow persist.
I remember he wanted not to ask industrial gunpowder and guns and things like this, but didn't want to exclude completely the use of explosive powder, more or less.
Anyway, the fact that there are plate cuirasses 2 hand swords or the fact that it is historical or not is not the question : remember we are speaking of a game named Dwarf Fortress, with dragons, artifact, magic, vampires and adamantine...
And we’ve even got someone now who volunteered to research ancient medieval medicine. And he has sent me some great summaries of the different things that came in and that directly influenced my healthcare changes I’ve been making over the past months. Couple months. And you know what was practical back then and so on. Cause we have a general constraint. It’s not – I mean it’s not something we could adhere to fully, but the basic idea is that anything prior to the 1400s is fair game for technologies and so on. And that includes more than most people think because there were some advanced civilizations back then. And you also kind of want to pick a model for things we’re gonna use. We’re gonna end up using the kind of 800s Arabian chemistry model, cause they did a lot of interesting things that seem very dwarfy.
But we’re not gonna use – we might have this as an optional thing because a lot of people want to see, like gunpowder for instance. But that’s the kind of thing that’s prone to cause arguments. And that’s something where we don’t care about it so much. And we’re gonna kind of have a – go with what the undercurrents of the community are on that.
But there’s other things like there’s an undercurrent of people that want steam _____ for example. And are interested in steam engines and Jules Vern type contraptions and stuff. And we just, I mean that seems kind of like a fad that’s remerged _______ really interested in that. We weren’t particularly interested in and it’s seen a lot of use in games recently, so we’re just not gonna do that.
Fire lances when? 3:
Fire lances when? 3:
If you use divine metal (sun/day sphere) and or coat the weapon in a ever burning/temporarily burning substance there's no reason you couldn't do that already with moderate tools & caution taken to not set yourself on fire (ofc day/sun doesn't do anything at the moment etc)
More specifically you'd need to have it defined that the tip is on fire rather than the whole spear as a object which could come into the hilt-blade-binding/nailing it all together kind of thing.
Fire lances when? 3:
If you use divine metal (sun/day sphere) and or coat the weapon in a ever burning/temporarily burning substance there's no reason you couldn't do that already with moderate tools & caution taken to not set yourself on fire (ofc day/sun doesn't do anything at the moment etc)
More specifically you'd need to have it defined that the tip is on fire rather than the whole spear as a object which could come into the hilt-blade-binding/nailing it all together kind of thing.
Dont know if this question have been asked yet, but will there be any changes in vermin movement? Cause right now animals such as lungfishes still fly high in blue skies and get eaten by predator birds or burrow deep underground, occasionally being seen in tunnels under the river. This is kinda strange...Lime green if that's a question you actually want answered (answer will be, bugs are bugs and of course will be fixed one day, no timetable).
Practical steam engines didn't exist until long after 1400, though. That's not remotely comparable.Boy I'm glad you're not Toady's interviewer. 'Dude, shut up about steam and stick to gunpowder. 1400 man, focus.'
Fire lances when? 3:
If you use divine metal (sun/day sphere) and or coat the weapon in a ever burning/temporarily burning substance there's no reason you couldn't do that already with moderate tools & caution taken to not set yourself on fire (ofc day/sun doesn't do anything at the moment etc)
More specifically you'd need to have it defined that the tip is on fire rather than the whole spear as a object which could come into the hilt-blade-binding/nailing it all together kind of thing.
ಠ_ಠ
I meant this thing ya goof. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance)
Who said gunpowder isn't planned? Even in the old interview I just posted when he was more against including it, Toady suggests putting it in as an option.Fire lances when? 3:
If you use divine metal (sun/day sphere) and or coat the weapon in a ever burning/temporarily burning substance there's no reason you couldn't do that already with moderate tools & caution taken to not set yourself on fire (ofc day/sun doesn't do anything at the moment etc)
More specifically you'd need to have it defined that the tip is on fire rather than the whole spear as a object which could come into the hilt-blade-binding/nailing it all together kind of thing.
ಠ_ಠ
I meant this thing ya goof. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance)
I know what you mean, but that's a flame thrower, you'd need propellant and gunpowder isn't planned. Coating the spear in chemicals would be the only way to get it to actually light on fire without using magic.
Any timeline on cannibalism being fixed? It appears that the issue concerning it has at last been categorized as confirmed and assigned, even though you've indicated being aware of the bug as far back as December 2015.There's no indication that Toady's any more aware of why it's gone wrong than the last time you asked. Last we heard was 'no idea what went wrong'.
Also, scorpionposts when? :V
GDS is missing because the social experiment to see how attached one crazy fan can get to a big 'S' is ongoing.
I asked and suggested the use of firearms before. There's nothing more dwarfy than a metal tube that vomits lead and breath fire, finely ornamented with the images of suffering elves and goblins under its own wrath.
Toady didn't like much the firearms back then. Recently I asked again about cannons in ships once we get there and he was way more open to it, but had reservations about how that would also imply land cannons and so on...
Regardless it might end up being fully modable one day. Currently it is but given there's a lot to be done for ranged weapons (reload time and other stuff...) it's somewhat weird.
So if I could answer you, cannons in ships are a very real possibility, on land maybe and handheld maybe not.
I expect gunpowder hasn't been implemented or talked about much so far because of problems with projectile weapons in general;That and the lack of interest stated in the interview I posted not very long ago where he did actually talk about it.
QuoteI expect gunpowder hasn't been implemented or talked about much so far because of problems with projectile weapons in general;That and the lack of interest stated in the interview I posted not very long ago where he did actually talk about it.
And quibbling like this is why I brought up the oldest possible thing (that I'm aware of) that could be considered vaguely gun-like, instead of going straight to mentioning cannons, hand cannons, or arquebuses. :V
EDIT: I'm now annoyed that my browser's spellchecker recognized "quibbling" but not "arquebus." >.>
About all blackpowder related tech, i'm pretty sure that there is near nothing in that vein that'll see implementation before both:It's mostly discussion with no questions for Toady so far. I think we all know not to bother asking silly stuff about the far future like 'Fire lances when?' in this thread.
-'Alchemy' actually being implemented at all.
-Research "topics" and their associated skills getting a full first-work, such that they are more than flavorful placeholders, as they are now.
Both of these are rather far down the road, and questions being re-asked for the nigh-thousandth time should probably be saved until that's on the horizon, at least.
This probably isn't an inaccurate perspective, is it?
So when artifacts are implemented, maybe once the update just hits, you'll start with an encyclopedic knowledge of every single artifact. But later down the road, are there any plans to have to learn about artifacts before you can do things like ask about them? Will books written about artifacts teach player characters about new artifacts that exist in the world? Will cultures have artifacts important to them? Like if you grow up in The Union of Teaching or whatever, would a player character know all of that nation's important artifacts?I think Toady said last month or the month before that you'll only be able to quest for artifacts you actually know about. Knowledge spreads through rumours, so you probably wouldn't know about recently made stuff until you get visitors from those places talking about them at the tavern.
I'm just curious as to how the artifact system will work.
The idea that you could only put a cannon on a ship but not on land is too silly even for this game.
Quote from: LordBaalWonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?Quote from: Urist McWoodBurnerWill you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?
I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really. I'm not sure what we'll end up with. That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be. It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains. I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it. Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters). Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.
Straight the Toad's mouth:Quote from: LordBaalWonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?Quote from: Urist McWoodBurnerWill you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?
I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really. I'm not sure what we'll end up with. That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be. It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains. I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it. Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters). Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.
Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.
I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.
Yep totally messed up. Despite saying that 1400 is completely arbitrary,, gunpowder absolutely existed but he doesn't (didn't?) want to include it and this being a fantasy world simulator means anything goes if he's interested in it.Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.
I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.
Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:
Magical songs were mentioned in the PCgamer interview you did. Does that mean there might be, in addition to magical songs, magical poems, dances and instruments?I believe there's mention of magical dance buried in one of the mythgen screenshots. Rituals without magical dances would be kind of boring.
If so, I can't wait to make a kantele out of a giant pike's jaw and sing people into swamps.
Yep totally messed up. Despite saying that 1400 is completely arbitrary,, gunpowder absolutely existed but he doesn't (didn't?) want to include it and this being a fantasy world simulator means anything goes if he's interested in it.Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.
I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.
Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:
Apart fom that yeah, messed up, damn that Toad and his historical ignorance.
Or was it fans latching onto something and taking it far, far too literally who messed up? No. Surely not...
When you send squads out to other sites will they be able to conquer, pillage, or destroy the site the way armies do in legends mode, or will they only be allowed to steal artifactsArtifacts only in this release. Killing is hard. (Last months fotf reply). They will fight if there's things to fight though.
Look, you can bend the words all the way you want, fact is Toady doesn't like the idea of firearms on the vanilla game, period, said by himself. Doesn't matter if they make the 1400 cut off. There's stuff he's simply not into.Straight the Toad's mouth:Quote from: LordBaalWonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?Quote from: Urist McWoodBurnerWill you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?
I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really. I'm not sure what we'll end up with. That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be. It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains. I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it. Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters). Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.
Well, he is saying here that the concepts are inseparable.
Look, you can bend the words all the way you want, fact is Toady doesn't like the idea of firearms on the vanilla game, period, said by himself. Doesn't matter if they make the 1400 cut off. There's stuff he's simply not into.Straight the Toad's mouth:Quote from: LordBaalWonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?Quote from: Urist McWoodBurnerWill you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?
I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really. I'm not sure what we'll end up with. That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be. It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains. I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it. Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters). Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.
Well, he is saying here that the concepts are inseparable.
What is important is the game to the have the ability of being modable into using firearms with all the details pertinent to it (slow reload time, more complicated logistics behind them), which eventually will be.
Just an information : consider reading this interview : here (http://www.pcgamer.com/dwarf-fortress-creator-tarn-adams-talks-about-simulating-the-most-complex-magic-system-ever/?utm_content=buffer996a7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw) about Magic.
It's really interesting and...hyping.
Oh Ok. Add kidnap rescue missions and general raiding/mischief causing to that then. :)When you send squads out to other sites will they be able to conquer, pillage, or destroy the site the way armies do in legends mode, or will they only be allowed to steal artifactsArtifacts only in this release. Killing is hard. (Last months fotf reply). They will fight if there's things to fight though.
Sorry if this has been asked,Take a read through the dev notes and the interview posted today for info on magic in general.
Someone in the past suggested that the artifacts updates would involve the ability to give powers to items, like a sword of fire or amulet of extravision. Is that actually something you want to do? If it were implemented, should expect magic items to be only randomly generated artifacts or would it be possible to mass produce particular items, with or without modding?
I seem to recall an interview where Toady mentioned that he liked the idea of explosives. So maybe his plans for gunpowder would be more like the orc's explosive attack at Helm's Deep.
I don't know how will it be done, but the (maximum) two-weeks long missions seems too short...i understand it's necessary and "realistic" but...well...Perhaps there is a a "mission-time" during which the squad will search, wander, question people, etc...which lead me to this question (three, actually)Two weeks as in, the game skips two weeks when you unretire an adventurer. That's all. No-one suggested missions should be two weeks.
- How long will it take for squads to "find" artifacts, people or any other thing you asked apart from the journey time ? Can it take days, weeks, or months ? Is there a limit of time after which they will turn around ?
for example, searching for someone in a big goblin city can be really long if you have to visit every lair and avoid patrols
- Does the type of equipments and general stats for the squad will have impact on their strength/resistance outside of the fortress ?
I don't want to send my full adamantine legendary axe fighters if they are about to die in a place I won't be able to have their stuff back...(and especially if they don't do better than a copper dabbler warrior)
- If a squad is destroyed, what will happen in regard to their stuff ? Will you see adamantine items put somewhere in the economy, or taken by our enemy as a war trophy, or in the next caravan ?
Sorry if this has been asked,
Someone in the past suggested that the artifacts updates would involve the ability to give powers to items, like a sword of fire or amulet of extravision. Is that actually something you want to do? If it were implemented, should expect magic items to be only randomly generated artifacts or would it be possible to mass produce particular items, with or without modding?
I seem to recall an interview where Toady mentioned that he liked the idea of explosives. So maybe his plans for gunpowder would be more like the orc's explosive attack at Helm's Deep.
There is the problem that explosive charges, that if it's affected area could compete with dwarven miners, the affected area would be HUGE. Unless dwarves were made to dig much slower through harder rock.Sorry if this has been asked,
Someone in the past suggested that the artifacts updates would involve the ability to give powers to items, like a sword of fire or amulet of extravision. Is that actually something you want to do? If it were implemented, should expect magic items to be only randomly generated artifacts or would it be possible to mass produce particular items, with or without modding?
I seem to recall an interview where Toady mentioned that he liked the idea of explosives. So maybe his plans for gunpowder would be more like the orc's explosive attack at Helm's Deep.
I am hoping that black powder charges have some mining applications if they are implemented.
That said, lever operated blackpowder charges would be much more useful for breaching walls and floors remotely without having to finagle with cave-in nonsense, as well as for traps. You'd certainly have to measure it out so you could control just how much structural damage you're planning to do with these things, but I can imagine a fragmentation blackpowder charge would do some serious damage to a squad caught in a kill corridor.Also for breaching magma and water.
"The odd time differences continue to cause trouble as usual -- on a medium map, going from tip to tip on a world-spanning crescent shaped continent takes ~18 days. So if there aren't weird interruptions (like your dwarf squad stopping for a bender at a human tavern), you can expect even the longest journies to be over in a month or so, which passes relatively quickly in fort mode. We might adjust the times a bit if it's too strange, but we'd like to keep everything as consistent as possible (since there are lots of non-player armies moving around the map at these speeds). "
Source : http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
18 days ~ 2 weeks.
Hence my question. The issue is the SIZE of the world.
"The odd time differences continue to cause trouble as usual -- on a medium map, going from tip to tip on a world-spanning crescent shaped continent takes ~18 days. So if there aren't weird interruptions (like your dwarf squad stopping for a bender at a human tavern), you can expect even the longest journies to be over in a month or so, which passes relatively quickly in fort mode. We might adjust the times a bit if it's too strange, but we'd like to keep everything as consistent as possible (since there are lots of non-player armies moving around the map at these speeds). "
Source : http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
18 days ~ 2 weeks.
Hence my question. The issue is the SIZE of the world.
It explicitly says that the mission would take over a month since the 18 days is one way, if you really read what you're posting.
Not only that, but that's a medium world; large worlds will take longer to cross.
In the last FotF you said there would be "nothing fighty" for the missions yet. What are the "generic raids" spoken of in the 3/18 blog post? Is it just a hostile/negative diplomatic action?As mentioned in PC gamer, incidental fights will occur. You're not going to rescue children and artifacts with no-one noticing. I imagine 'not fighty' to mean specific combat missions 'go kill this Titan', 'go attack this bandit camp' and of course the future clash of armies type of 'fighty' which is still a long way off.
Oh heavens I never knew how badly I wanted minecart powered fortress ejection seats.For my amusement -
Are aimed missile attacks a future plan?How do you mean?
Will squads or individuals pursue personal interests en route to their destination,Stopping off at taverns was mentioned, so yeah.
Are aimed missile attacks a future plan?How do you mean?
You aim missile attacks right now, don't you?
Or do you mean, aim for a specific body part, like melee combat?
(In which case the answer will be, yeah, one day, no schedule. The next release is focussed on artifacts, not the combat system).
- If a squad is destroyed, what will happen in regard to their stuff ? Will you see adamantine items put somewhere in the economy, or taken by our enemy as a war trophy, or in the next caravan ?
Aiming personal missile throwers like bows and crossbows at specific body parts. A friend of mine is annoyed that we can aim melee attacks like that but we can't do it with arrows and the like.
Aiming personal missile throwers
Aiming personal missile throwersJoking aside, it'll probably be saved for when another combat rework/update rolls out, and will probably be in the vein of "very inaccurate called shot, unless the target is completely vulnerable and still" or "aim center mass for increased chance to hit".Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What's the point of being able to spit on people if you can't spit specifically in their eye?Make sure you do it with a good archery skill, or you might accidentally spit in their mouth instead.
Aiming personal missile throwers like bows and crossbows at specific body parts. A friend of mine is annoyed that we can aim melee attacks like that but we can't do it with arrows and the like.
Now just imagine if monsters start getting randomly generated species names using in-game languages like instruments. Is that a forgotten beast? An angel? A titan? A megabeast? A civilized humanoid thing? Just some random critter? You'll never be able to tell at a glance again. o3oExcept there'll be sliders so you'll never have to play like that if you don't want to.
I developed many weird and useless skills as a child, like, will juggling while walking around on a bowling ball ever be useful? No, no it will not, and neither will knife throwing.
...yada yada...
Now just imagine if monsters start getting randomly generated species names using in-game languages like instruments. Is that a forgotten beast? An angel? A titan? A megabeast? A civilized humanoid thing? Just some random critter? You'll never be able to tell at a glance again. o3o
Ah, I just remembered something I meant to ask!The secret holder needs 50 zombies (or whatever animated critter they have) to be able to build the tower. (It's mentioned in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg3088752;topicseen#msg3088752) and hasn't changed since.)
What exactly is required for a secret to generate a tower? It seems like an animate interaction+some number of zombies is it, but I'm not quite certain yet.
That explains why I didn't find anything about it, well before I started playing/posting.Ah, I just remembered something I meant to ask!The secret holder needs 50 zombies (or whatever animated critter they have) to be able to build the tower. (It's mentioned in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg3088752;topicseen#msg3088752) and hasn't changed since.)
What exactly is required for a secret to generate a tower? It seems like an animate interaction+some number of zombies is it, but I'm not quite certain yet.
I imagine that different secrets could use "thralls" (not DF thralls), "homunculi", etc as a reraisable non-hostile and rather combat ineffective creature as a placeholder to allow different kind of secret-wielding wizards in this version without explicitly being necromancy, so long as you can trick the game into thinking those creatures count as zombies for tower-creation. Not sure, though.Why would you need a placeholder magic system when magic is about to get a massive overhaul? You don't need to trick the system, just change it.
From a modding point of view, for now, i mean. A workaround that modders can probably do presently until magic actually gets it's overhaul in a year or three.I imagine that different secrets could use "thralls" (not DF thralls), "homunculi", etc as a reraisable non-hostile and rather combat ineffective creature as a placeholder to allow different kind of secret-wielding wizards in this version without explicitly being necromancy, so long as you can trick the game into thinking those creatures count as zombies for tower-creation. Not sure, though.Why would you need a placeholder magic system when magic is about to get a massive overhaul? You don't need to trick the system, just change it.
Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.
I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.
Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:
In my Opinion one very
good Way of Building a strong Wall, capable
to stand the Shocks of Engines, is this: make tri−
angular Projections out from the naked of the
Wall, with one Angle facing the Enemy, at the
Distance of every ten Cubits, and turn Arches
from one Projection to the other; then fill up the
Vacancies between them with Straw and Earth,
well rammed down together. By this Means
the Force and Violence of the Shocks of the
Engines, will be deadened by the Softness of the
Earth, and the Wall will not be weakned by
the Battery, only here and there, and those
small Breaches, or rather Holes, that are made
in it, will presently be stopt up again.
1. Will the law rework include the inclusion of more advanced 'factions within factions'? What I mean by this are things like royal houses, trade companies, ambitious common interest groups, popular movements, religious cults, etc. Factions which do not necessarily control independent land on their own, but have (sometimes significant) influence within their country, their own political interests and the potential to try and topple/secede from the current government if they find it justified enough through rebellions, coups, etc. Or is this slated for a much later release?
2. Similarly, will the embark arc include an overhaul on territorial/titular claims? Right now they seem quite clunky, with every single faction claiming half the world.
3. Will the creation myth update bring any changes to early world-gen? Right now, there's this awkward 'Year 1' where most major factions and cities are inexplicably suddenly founded, with no history prior to that.
4. Is there a plan to change the timeframes in fortress mode? It seems kind of weird that one of the greatest forts in the world gets constructed in a few years, and usually lasts no more than a decade before falling into ruin, while there are a bunch of random minor hamlets/hillocks that are over a millennium old.
The kill_neutral:required ethic will probably make rescues tricky.Yeah. Combining some of the new mechanics, the whole squad could maybe argue their way into the dark fortress claiming they were all slave dancers. Then lead all the kids back home like the pied piper. Let their parents deal with Kill_neutral later. Ha ha ha.
I think if they're snatched before becoming a histfig they go native, otherwise they maintain their name/ethics.
If dwarf civs have a claim on an artifact, will we see them go to war over it in the next update? Or will they continue the trend of not invading and send spies and thieves instead?
Or raiders I guess, if that feature is rolled out to npc civs.
1.Can villages/hamlets grow into towns?
2. If yes, what makes that happen?
3.Can a group that is not part of a CIV become part of one or create their own?
4.Can an adventurer become a lord of a CIV by claiming the rulers town as his?
The topics system as it exists, while a placeholder, does give a good preview of what functional systems our dwarves will pursue knowledge in in future implementations. However, it seems a lot of topics are comprehensive in the context of the real world, and do not much touch the fantasy word dwarves live in. Will there be expansion to cover more esoteric topics as systems and "lore" becomes more developed and set in stone, or are such subjects considered "off limits" for dwarven philosophers and scientists alike?
Such subjects include regional alignment, regional emission epidemiology (evil rain, vapors, etc), meta-anthropology (beastmen of any type as well as other similarly esoteric humanoids),subterranean biology, applied theology (concerning curses), mythological biology (megabeasts), diverse anthropology (goblins, humans, elves, etc), and many more I haven't accounted for, noting that the above list covers either currently existing or planned features rather than being new ideas.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I guess I meant it was less of a new list of things to research, and more just a list of subjects that'd possibly exist because the phenomena is already part of the natural world, for our dwarves. You do have a point, though.I guess they were left out intentionally (for now) as everything supernatural isn't necessarily going to be a natural part of a world. Whereas, for the most part, the laws of physics are.
Will expeditions be able to take prisoners, or bring back migrants? Would we eventually be able to use slave labor?
Will expeditions be able to take prisoners, or bring back migrants? Would we eventually be able to use slave labor?
will there be raws for hunger and thirst, so you can modify the amount of food and water a creature needs?
I guess if the kid is in a travelling army childsnatchers cant grab him, eh?
What kind of threats on our artifacts will we see in fort mode? It'd be great if this was a challenge. A siege is easy enough to defend and is more of a threat on your dwarfs than your artifacts, and the current kobold thieves aren't really a threat. New methods involving the identity system would be fun. Perhaps a spy could grab an artifact when no one is looking and try to make it out before anyone notices it's gone, or perhaps a small group of ambushers could come to the fortress as visitors, take the artifact, then try to fight their way out.
What information will the player have available to them prior to sending out a retrieval party? Information like if it's known to be at a current site, if so what type and who owns it, and if not known possibly how was it lost and what was it's last known whereabouts. That would be crucial to know when sending out a party. I imagine an artifact known to be held at a dark fortress might need an entire siege party, while an artifact with unknown whereabouts might just need a couple of dwarfs to wander around searching for it.
Will the player be able to send out spies or take advantage of spies already sent out by their civilization? They're important for artifact location, if the goblins use them for that purpose hopefully the player can as well. Perhaps spies could also be used to gain news of the world from sources other than diplomat visits. It'd be a nice touch.
Right now, we find current year money in lairs. This is a bit silly. When will we be able to find historical currency?
With the new scrollable map type, would a [SCOUT] entity unit breifly fufill the function (in such a case that you send out dwarves out to nowhere to scout out caves/shrines in fortress mode) of a fortress mode expedition group being sent out?
Does the new map screen include access to information from legends mode in some way? Specifically, will we be able to search for location/event names?
could a squad sent off map lose members and wind up with a single survivor, and if so, could that survivor get beat up by bogeymen?
could you send out fortress members to participate in events like the dwarflympics and poetry readings with forewarning a event is going to happen in order to earn some social skills & personal notoriety for the dwarf? With the little readout whether they 'won' or not
What in Dwarf Fortress is still scripted that you hope to simulate in the future?
With the introduction of the ability to send squads of your own dwarves it seems to me that the Fortress Mode and Adventure mode are beginning to compete with eachother economically speaking (not that this matters at present). If the sites can just send their own folks off to kill any beasties they fancy, retrieve any artifacts they fancy, hunt down any bandits that annoy them, rescue any lost children and so on what need to have to wait around to reward random adventurers for doing those jobs for them. This creates a problem since the adventurers reliable depend upon the sites for stuff they need but since the sites no longer reliably benefit from having adventurers around they will not provide them with a reliable income. I can think of a number of possible extreme solutions to this problem.
1. Deliberately restrict what the sites are able to do using their own members by some means or other however realistic or otherwise so that there are a whole raft of things that need doing that can only be done by said special characters. For instance all dwarves that have the skills to hunt down dragons and lost children in the wilderness know they have the skills, opting to become adventurers resulting in the sites being forced to get adventurers to do those jobs.
2. Make the economies of fortress mode and adventure mode mostly self-sufficient to each-other, perhaps by using the same system of production and exchange for adventurers as is used by nomadic groups of creatures in the wilderness. In this system the lack of a consistent value of adventurers is not a problem at all since all the adventurers produce all the goods and services they collectively need, with any economic contact with sites being basically sporadic and opportunistic.
3. Merge Fortress Mode and Adventure Mode economies together completely. This means that the adventurer plays simply an ordinary guy in exactly the same position and function towards the site he is in as a regular dwarf in fortress mode, whatever that is. Since we still need the player to be able to reliably get stuff done in fortress mode, that means that we are going to have to make adventure mode far more mission based, with adventurers being regular folks given explicit tasks to perform by site governments rather than being independent entities 'following their own destiny'.
What are your thoughts on this?
1. Will offsite squads be able to destroy, pillage, or conquer sites or just take artifacts.
When you send squads out to other sites will they be able to conquer, pillage, or destroy the site the way armies do in legends mode, or will they only be allowed to steal artifacts
During world time, (or after) does older dragons have better chance to survive an encounter than younger ones ?
Dont know if this question have been asked yet, but will there be any changes in vermin movement? Cause right now animals such as lungfishes still fly high in blue skies and get eaten by predator birds or burrow deep underground, occasionally being seen in tunnels under the river. This is kinda strange...
Will we be able to refer to the map when the liaison turns up with his wall of text about what's going on in the world (while he's actually talking I mean, rather than writing everything down and checking the map later)?
Also, you mentioned just before the taverns release that you didn't get the time to add a map that'd be used to listen to tavern rumours. Will that be added now that there's a map, or has that been put off for now?
What will squads do if they're questing when the fortress falls? Will they continue the quest until it's done before disbanding? Will they form a new group? Or continue questing together for other sites?
Also, NPC adventurers are wandering around the world picking up quests posted at sites, so (as an alternative to making squads out of your citizens) will it be possible for the player to also "post" quests that visitors will be able to pick up (possibly in exchange for a bunch of granite crowns or whatever)?
What I'd love to see is a bunch of mercs naturally picking up on rumours at the tavern about the quest you just sent a squad on and have them form their own band to try to grab the artifact quicker than your dorfs.
Bonus points if they hang out in the tavern the whole time then jump your squad the moment they get back. That would be awesome.
Are the various factions hanging out at the tavern going to cause problems when dwarf squads return artifacts? Because actually it would be very cool to see people killing each other over artifacts.
So when artifacts are implemented, maybe once the update just hits, you'll start with an encyclopedic knowledge of every single artifact. But later down the road, are there any plans to have to learn about artifacts before you can do things like ask about them? Will books written about artifacts teach player characters about new artifacts that exist in the world? Will cultures have artifacts important to them? Like if you grow up in The Union of Teaching or whatever, would a player character know all of that nation's important artifacts?
Does that mean there might be, in addition to magical songs, magical poems, dances and instruments?
Now that you can send squads out on raids and kidnap rescue missions, are you going to go back and put these kind of missions into worldgen for this release so that npc sites can also send raids and rescue kids?
Turning up in town in the middle of an insurrection is a lot of fun as you work out which side to jump in on. But that's quite rare. Sites raiding each other while you wander about in search of new boots would add to the sense of stuff going on.
Also, edge case question:
I guess most missions will be finished in two weeks judging by the travel times you mentioned, but what happens if you send a player-fortress dwelling retired adventurer out on a mission and then unretire him? If the mission is still going on, will you teleport back to the fortress? Appear in the wilderness mid-quest?
I'm assuming missions carry on without you after you retire your fortress, of course.
As an eventual development, do you consider the approach of using more accurate temperature physics (heat of fusion/vaporization, specifically raw-able exothermic/endothermic qualities of a burning material, etc.) to quell the more disasterous (from a simulation standpoint) effects of hot temperatures, or is the plan to implement some manner of hardcoded direct limitations to fire to accomplish that?
For elaboration, think like unstoppable wetlands rapid wildfire infernos caused by an errant fire or splash of lava, melting that does not stop when you submerge in water, "melting" being the primary damage when you burn instead of skin-fat incineration, not getting cauterized when you dip your fingers in lava, and being impossible to extinguish when set on fire in most situations.
- How long will it take for squads to "find" artifacts, people or any other thing you asked apart from the journey time ? Can it take days, weeks, or months ? Is there a limit of time after which they will turn around ?
for example, searching for someone in a big goblin city can be really long if you have to visit every lair and avoid patrols
- Does the type of equipments and general stats for the squad will have impact on their strength/resistance outside of the fortress ?
I don't want to send my full adamantine legendary axe fighters if they are about to die in a place I won't be able to have their stuff back...(and especially if they don't do better than a copper dabbler warrior)
- If a squad is destroyed, what will happen in regard to their stuff ? Will you see adamantine items put somewhere in the economy, or taken by our enemy as a war trophy, or in the next caravan ?
1. Would one cost to making a deal for magical power be that the person involved and all their descendants have to serve the entity the bargain was made with?
2. Would another cost of making such a deal for power be that the entity turns the person into a monster?
In the last FotF you said there would be "nothing fighty" for the missions yet. What are the "generic raids" spoken of in the 3/18 blog post? Is it just a hostile/negative diplomatic action?
What would be the effective duration that the individual tasks take when attempted in post-worldgen, will the events themselves (not traveling) be near instantaneous and travelling itself be static, or will obstacles such as negotiations, intermittent stops (sleeping, acquiring rations, slowing by weather, travelling offroad, confrontation, injured dwarves and treating injured dwarves) hinder mission time any? Will any of the above affect morale and stress of the dwarves themselves in any manner?
Will squads or individuals pursue personal interests en route to their destination, or change their plans in the event that the conditions of the mission change the situation initially planned for, or in the event that squad members come across a situation or circumstance that inspires their ambition?
As increased interactivity with the outside world increases, the dwarf-mode adventure-mode time discrepancies begin to become more significant. How do you plan to address certain situations where the discrepancies are pretty significant? For instance, on a slightly large embark at a distance of a handful local regional tiles away, if you send out an expedition, it will take significantly longer for your dwarves to get off of your front lawn than it will take for them to cross the geographically longer distance to the site.
If there are ways off the edge of the map in the caverns, can squads depart using these?
(Instead of say, wandering through the syndrome inducing blood falling from the sky and around the husks hanging out near the front door)
> Perhaps not specifically in the scope of dwarves, but will there be different reactions for the different circumstances of sending out adventurers between using different races? Such as in "human town" mode you might employ a use of unconventional bandits dictated by your guidance on where to settle & loot.
Though of course there's always the fact that site scenarios might obscure/limit/complicate the actions of what a player might be able to do from a particular site. The little mention of raiding was interesting, since that seems to lean on the fact that not every reaction when you walk into a town is going to be positive, though i might just be reading too much into it.
Are there plans for other sites (hamlet/retreat) to acquire workshops (in the way world gen fortresses have)?
Once curses get revamped will there be more insidious curses such as a curse that doesn't seem to do anything at first but slowly turns the cursed person into a monster overtime?
Are there any plans to "streamline" the presentation of procedural content in future updates? Will it be easier to get a full list of all the things that are "different" in the specific world we are playing?
1. Will the law rework include the inclusion of more advanced 'factions within factions'? What I mean by this are things like royal houses, trade companies, ambitious common interest groups, popular movements, religious cults, etc. Factions which do not necessarily control independent land on their own, but have (sometimes significant) influence within their country, their own political interests and the potential to try and topple/secede from the current government if they find it justified enough through rebellions, coups, etc. Or is this slated for a much later release?
2. Similarly, will the embark arc include an overhaul on territorial/titular claims? Right now they seem quite clunky, with every single faction claiming half the world.
How long does it take for a kidnapped child to 'turn goblin'?
Do dwarves know this? Or will the option to go rescue a child still be available after it's far too late?
If a squad find a kidnapped child which is now pretty much a goblin, will they kill it and then head back to report? Bring it home in a cage for its parents to deal with?
Also, can you 'rescue' kids even if their parents aren't at the fortress? What happens then? The phrase Out of the Frying Pan into the Magma springs to mind...
What options do squads get for carrying out their tasks? Frontal attack only? Can they try to sneak into enemy sites like thieves, or undercover like the new spies do?
The topics system as it exists, while a placeholder, does give a good preview of what functional systems our dwarves will pursue knowledge in in future implementations. However, it seems a lot of topics are comprehensive in the context of the real world, and do not much touch the fantasy word dwarves live in. Will there be expansion to cover more esoteric topics as systems and "lore" becomes more developed and set in stone, or are such subjects considered "off limits" for dwarven philosophers and scientists alike?
Such subjects include regional alignment, regional emission epidemiology (evil rain, vapors, etc), meta-anthropology (beastmen of any type as well as other similarly esoteric humanoids),subterranean biology, applied theology (concerning curses), mythological biology (megabeasts), diverse anthropology (goblins, humans, elves, etc), and many more I haven't accounted for, noting that the above list covers either currently existing or planned features rather than being new ideas.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toady, when you are working on fort mode changes do you create a new fortress in game for every change to test changes or is there one saved game you work off of that has survived a few updates?
How quick dwarven "armies" are? (in world map) Can we send a raid party to distant settlement, then stop this attack in Adventure mode? (before two weeks will pass)
If I send dwarf squad to look for artifact can they return with some other loot as well? If they fight goblin with steel shortsword can they bring it back?
QuoteIs there any contingency plan to address native animal item thieves and whether goods stolen off a site by animal thieves can be found or reclaimed from the wilderness? (a generated lair for a troop of rhesus macaques for instance, be it a particularly large tree or some other kind of thing)
I don't have a section in the dev notes to handle this, and I'm not sure what'll happen. It's best of course for artifacts to not be lost entirely, but even the artifacts lost in regions in world gen can be practically impossible to find (even with exact x/y locations that work, because the map is so large in tiles).
That said, demanded/offered artifact will be better understood and findable as a result of the upcoming diplomacy changes, and we might have some related changes to other currently-stranded items.
For raids, they currently use the mercenary/hero code, rather than the spy code, so they do some "sneaking" roll-wise but aren't at all clever. If sent on a more location-agnostic artifact recovery or rescue mission, they first attempt to get up-to-date rumors of the target, generally through hard-drinking.Are we going to need to provide our armies with coinage for booze and bribes? Or will that wait for the economy?
Will we ever see monster slayers in Fortress mode? They were planned for release 42.01, but it seems they are not implemented.They're supposed to be in, but nobody (including Toady) knows why they're not showing up.
If you send a raiding party out to attack a retired player fort, and then immediately retire and assume control of the fort you ordered to be attacked, will the dwarves you sent arrive and siege you?Seems probable. If you can do it in Adventurer, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do it in Fortress. Of course, you've gotta send them to a location more than two week's march away or it'll be over before you start. Siege triggers shouldn't be an issue as it'll be a raid, not a siege (like kobolds - but with steel and booze).
I can imagine a lot of interesting community games coming out of that ...
1. Will animal men on the surface ever form tribes that live in huts, have their own myths, etc?
~snip~
Loyalty cascades are a bug that happens when a unit is both a member and enemy of a group. They'll get fixed eventually.
Well, I guess they have gotten better lately. It used to be that your entire fort would fight to the last man.Loyalty cascades are a bug that happens when a unit is both a member and enemy of a group. They'll get fixed eventually.
There are ways this is actually a feature, for instance sub group rebellions can throw a snap revolt (which is basically what a loyalty cascade is when dwarves start fighting & friends pick sides) and gain a new leader if the revolters win.
With guilds and such in the future we might see more civilian 'groups' in the future within the fortress or the government change if pre-planned/named loyalty cascades work within the fortress to take over the site.
Quote from: peasant cretinAre there plans for other sites (hamlet/retreat) to acquire workshops (in the way world gen fortresses have)?
Nope. The current adv workshops are a hack. We are leaning away from workshops overall and want to try to avoid putting them more places.
I guess the larger questions are: what do sites revolve around besides being gathering spots for NPCs? Any location with a market of sorts, or a tavern has a reason for being as there's clearly either industry present/a focal point. Will NPCs be seen "at work"? Hunters never hunt, farmers are never in the fields, etc.
Are there any plans to diversify the human seat of power in a hamlet? Instead of just meadhalls, will there be manors, or other structures? Tangentially related, will we be able to mod the term of description for such structures?
When the myth update deals with the origins of the races, will there be any sort of like potentially semi-divine "first dwarves" or "golden age humans" like sort of the primogenitors of the particular races, who could get sung about for their role in history/cosmogony in songs and depicted in art and stuff?
"yes, no timeline yet" should be shortened to y tu given how often is used here.Questions are kind of a trap for a game like DF. With its expansive scope, most things are going to be in in some fashion. The issue is that for newer and new folks, it takes a bit to figure out how to ask questions. The question that get more verbose answers are those that are directly about whats been or being worked on now. The Brothers dont seem to much planning beyond an outline for anything they arent currently working on.
'adventurer-like shenanigans'
How will our dwarves treat rescued children? Will they be adopted as fort citizens, or be treated more as visitors? If the rescued child is still an infant, will anyone care for them?
How will our dwarves treat rescued children? Will they be adopted as fort citizens, or be treated more as visitors? If the rescued child is still an infant, will anyone care for them?
I suspect that the "nobody cares for infants dropped by their mothers" bug will continue to be the leading cause of child death.
Are there ever going to be improvements to combat the FPS death that claims all forts eventually? And if so, when do you see yourself doing that?
Well ToadyOne does do optimization through out. Its how they manage to keep roughly the same performance as the game goes on. This is also kind of a opaque veil. We dont know how much of an impact, if any, any new features have at first. We dont know how much they improved, if any.
Are there ever going to be improvements to combat the FPS death that claims all forts eventually? And if so, when do you see yourself doing that?
When do you think you will complete the new update?When it's done. Toady doesn't give specific answers, and rarely even general ones, to this sort of questions because too many people take a vague comment as a promise set in stone, and then get disappointed when the "promised" date isn't met. Things happen, like snags encountered, tangents embarked upon, etc. which makes a target date hard to hit, unless you're planning to be ready way ahead of the target and manage to curb the desire to just add one more thing. Toady also knows he's got the rather common tendency to be a bit of a time optimist.
When do you think you will complete the new update?[color]
I'm balancing out abstract equipment strength numbers and working more with the post-worldgen raid/battle code, since it wasn't really geared toward smaller numbers of well-equipped player dwarves fighting at sites. That'll merge in with the reports they give when they return, which is the next project.
Bandit harassment and kobold raids don't appear in Legends as conflicts, so I don't suppose dorf raids will either.
Raids are not war. War is a result of repeated raids annoying the raided side.
"Cogs of Scaling" - "The reasoning for war was in response to a aggressive attack by a expedition party from the 'bronze rope'
Sure, you can start a war with raids. Just as you can start a war by killing merchants and stealing artifacts. Was just saying that those initial happenings aren't given named wars in legends.Bandit harassment and kobold raids don't appear in Legends as conflicts, so I don't suppose dorf raids will either.
Raids are not war. War is a result of repeated raids annoying the raided side.
It might be supported in the case of invoking a larger conflict, given that toady's already sort of stated that he's started a war all by himself with a local human civ just by raiding a site.Quote"Cogs of Scaling" - "The reasoning for war was in response to a aggressive attack by a expedition party from the 'bronze rope'
Well, I guess they have gotten better lately. It used to be that your entire fort would fight to the last man.Loyalty cascades are a bug that happens when a unit is both a member and enemy of a group. They'll get fixed eventually.
There are ways this is actually a feature, for instance sub group rebellions can throw a snap revolt (which is basically what a loyalty cascade is when dwarves start fighting & friends pick sides) and gain a new leader if the revolters win.
With guilds and such in the future we might see more civilian 'groups' in the future within the fortress or the government change if pre-planned/named loyalty cascades work within the fortress to take over the site.
Not everyone.*tantrums and throws a marble cabinet at DG*
With the addition of Museum areas, will there be archaeologists that come and visit your fortress if you have a museum?Museums are rooms for displaying your artifact socks in the new display cases. Like statue gardens. They'll add to the reputation of the fortress, and keep residents happy.
You stand a good chance of having that question be missed. I don't think there's much point in spoiler tags on a thread discussing the actual development of the game. May as well spoiler-tag the entire forum during the mythgen update.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
1. Will it be possible for gods to disguise themselves as mortals and test real mortals and bless/curse them depending on how they do?
2. Would it be possible for magic in some worlds to be affected by a person's emotions? Like more strong/unstable when in an intense emotional state?
3. Would it be possible through magical means for a mortal to acquire godlike power?
As far as the discoveries and scholarship system goes: Are there any plans for actively harmful discoveries? E.g. bloodletting which can end up harming your Dwarves, or a philosophy of nihilism which ends up making them morose if they think about it? Or even Lovecraft-style Forbidden Knowledge which drives the reader insane?
Toady addressed that question in PC Gamer. No need for a derail here.As far as the discoveries and scholarship system goes: Are there any plans for actively harmful discoveries? E.g. bloodletting which can end up harming your Dwarves, or a philosophy of nihilism which ends up making them morose if they think about it? Or even Lovecraft-style Forbidden Knowledge which drives the reader insane?
This sounds exactly like the beginning of a non-magical rehash of the "can we randomly learn spells that blow up the whole fort" argument. Do we really need a long derail on the relative merits of giving the RNG the ability to drive scholars insane?
As far as the discoveries and scholarship system goes: Are there any plans for actively harmful discoveries? E.g. bloodletting which can end up harming your Dwarves, or a philosophy of nihilism which ends up making them morose if they think about it? Or even Lovecraft-style Forbidden Knowledge which drives the reader insane?
This sounds exactly like the beginning of a non-magical rehash of the "can we randomly learn spells that blow up the whole fort" argument. Do we really need a long derail on the relative merits of giving the RNG the ability to drive scholars insane?
What's in store for socializing? Will dwarves ever visit the zoo, again?Stock question 378
Will dwarves ever visit the zoo, again?This kind of question is almost always fruitless to ask, unless ToadyOne is working on part of the game that directly impacts it. Bugs get fix with every release. And presumably the game will eventually reach a least bugged state with whatever bugs that you personally like to see fix.
We can send non citizens to adventures? I want to recruit a hobbit for my merry band of dwarves to go and reclaim... a pretty stone from a flying lizard.
"Ever is a heck of a long time. Bugs are not meant to happen and will therefore be fixed. No schedule."
What is the time-frame for weaponry resizing automatically as clothing, shields and armour do?
And?"Ever is a heck of a long time. Bugs are not meant to happen and will therefore be fixed. No schedule."
Lots of bugs have been around for a long time, so "Will xxx bug ever be fixed"? is a sign that someone isn't that confident about that bug being fixed at all.
See prior sentiment on my part that an increasing proportion of updates lately have included new, exciting, bug-inducing features, with a side order of an opinion that at least a few more "nothing but bugfixes" updates would be desirable.
And if I start hearing that "oi blyat he does bugfixes" argument again I'll have to find the post where I listed and summarized the last several updates in a row, and how the majority of them introduced AT LEAST one new feature that caused additional bugs.
What is the time-frame for weaponry resizing automatically as clothing, shields and armour do?
On that end, will equipping a bigger sword give me more Dakka?
What is the time-frame for weaponry resizing automatically as clothing, shields and armour do?Armour resizes automatically?
Pretty sure GC meant a troll's short sword being bigger than a dwarf's short sword, as an example.Oh, civs producing weapons according to their size like they do with armour? I see.
2. Once the myth and magic update is released would magical creatures who procreate by converting other creatures into their species be possible?
Honestly, I think this could be interesting. Like maybe you'd have to be careful when picking your scholars. If you pick someone who's particularly impatient, maybe forcing him to basically stay in the library 24/7 might lead him to writing books with negative philosophies, that make your dwarves unhappy. This would require you to take some interest in your scholar's desired lifestyles, and such.As far as the discoveries and scholarship system goes: Are there any plans for actively harmful discoveries? E.g. bloodletting which can end up harming your Dwarves, or a philosophy of nihilism which ends up making them morose if they think about it? Or even Lovecraft-style Forbidden Knowledge which drives the reader insane?
This sounds exactly like the beginning of a non-magical rehash of the "can we randomly learn spells that blow up the whole fort" argument. Do we really need a long derail on the relative merits of giving the RNG the ability to drive scholars insane?
I don't think this is on the level of RNG blowing up the fort. I would expect that learning Forbidden Knowledge would require a rather specific set of circumstances (e.g. reading from a necromancy book) rather than just being "busy thinking about philosophy... oops I just went insane!"
-snip-
1. Will adventure mode eventually include options for the player to live a more peaceful life if they so choose such as taking up a profession?Dev notes. Settle down, build a farm/run an inn, raise a family.
I thought it was going to be a verbal report recited by the dwarves if they returned. And if you sent a squad leader who is prone to lying you might not be given the real reasons they failed to bring back the artifact left sock (terminally side-tracked at the first foreign tavern).
Not sure if it's going to get done this time, but dev notes on squad reports include rumours if squads get delayed or wiped out.I thought it was going to be a verbal report recited by the dwarves if they returned. And if you sent a squad leader who is prone to lying you might not be given the real reasons they failed to bring back the artifact left sock (terminally side-tracked at the first foreign tavern).
It would be funny if you could send all your most unscrupulous dwarves on a mission and they just go on vacation or something instead and lie about it when they get back.
Will we be able to send squads out after night creatures and megabeasts? Ask them to bring back things from their lairs?
If it is at all possible, could dwarves find discarded items out in the field upon their path of a expedition and pick it up for the journey? I vaguely remember yourself mentioning something somewhere in response to what happens when keas fly objects off map that somebody travelling over the exact tile where it was dumped could find a object in the wilderness, a response something along those lines.
The way the libraries works with how dwarfs do jobs there how much longer can workshops last before being replace?
With the Civ screen being removed from Fort mode will the 10 world tile range for towers and 40 for civs also be changed?
Boats might be far away but will fluids be reworked to something more ideal or will the current system work?
World size seems to be a large issue will they be increased with the magical land masses or will it just be too complex for anything larger?
Been avoiding large worlds mainly due to them taking so long to reach any age, what are the main events that happen post world gen?
-Has the cave adaption status been taken into the combat rolls for off-site groups?
-Dwarves getting stunned from sunlight move slightly slower, would this impact travel times?
-Is it possible for the cave adaption timer to still count down the time the dwarf spends "outside" while they're on their adventure? If the dwarves are somehow on a year-long adventure, could they lose their 4-month cave adaption part way through and become more effective?
- Does the Ambusher skill come into effect for the sneaky parts of the adventure? Is it all the dwarves trying to sneak, or just the sneakiest?
Will we get to see critters with prejudices about groups of individuals in the future? One of Threetoe's stories indicates that we'll be seeing prejudice based on a critter's species, but how are these prejudices going to be decided? Will we get to see them develop and change over time? Will prejudices also be able to develop around cast, membership of a group/entity, place of birth or visually identifiable characteristics? Will we be able to see prejudices that aren't purely discriminatory, such as 'critters of culture A believe people with brown eyes to be especially lucky'?
Are we going to need to provide our armies with coinage for booze and bribes? Or will that wait for the economy?
1. Will animal men on the surface ever form tribes that live in huts, have their own myths, etc?
2. In the future, say that these animal men surface tribes are a thing. Would it be possible for a first contact to happen, like a tribe and a civilization meet, then the humans/dwarves/goblins/etc want the land and start commiting genocide to the tribe like the US did to the Native Americans back in our early days?
3. When boats come, could it be possible for an "Age of Discovery" to occur? (As in the dwarves find a new continent or something.)
If you send a raiding party out to attack a retired player fort, and then immediately retire and assume control of the fort you ordered to be attacked, will the dwarves you sent arrive and siege you?
I guess the larger questions are: what do sites revolve around besides being gathering spots for NPCs? Any location with a market of sorts, or a tavern has a reason for being as there's clearly either industry present/a focal point. Will NPCs be seen "at work"? Hunters never hunt, farmers are never in the fields, etc.
I'm probably misreading this, but similar to the movement speed/attack speed split of DF2014, it seems ambusher skill has become separate from visual stealth. Will NPCs like hunters and other archers occasionally display behavior where they path according to tiles that benefit visual stealth? If so, will this conceal their vision arc from the player?
Are there any plans to diversify the human seat of power in a hamlet? Instead of just meadhalls, will there be manors, or other structures? Tangentially related, will we be able to mod the term of description for such structures?
When the myth update deals with the origins of the races, will there be any sort of like potentially semi-divine "first dwarves" or "golden age humans" like sort of the primogenitors of the particular races, who could get sung about for their role in history/cosmogony in songs and depicted in art and stuff?
With implementation of dwarven raids, will we see humans, goblins and elves sending their small raids to player's fortress?
Since it's now possible to provoke wars just by having squads cause trouble, can an adventurer and his friends now provoke a war too by indulging in adventurer-like shenanigans?
I guess squads following artifact trails will get there eventually, but will we also be able to select adventurer camps as targets of raids?
If at a time where personal mounts are added to the game will you refactor how armies & expeditions travel around, given that horseback & flying in mean terms is significantly faster and less tiring than little dwarf legs running at the same pace
In the current format, do expeditions have 'leaders' akin to military captains or do they just function as co-operative party?
How will our dwarves treat rescued children? Will they be adopted as fort citizens, or be treated more as visitors? If the rescued child is still an infant, will anyone care for them?
I probably misunderstood this one, but will this somehow improve current post-world gen battles that happen in different sites? The game currently treats a 3 goblin skirmish and a full fledged 1500 goblin invasion like kind of the same deal in offloaded sites, and they usually end when just one of the attackers dies (which is funny in thousand-goblin cases). Also, will these interventions on foreign sites appear like invasions in Legends Mode, regardless of intention and outcome? Such as "this is part of the Conflicts of Scratching", and so on.
Tangentially related (but not quite), what essential differences exist between visitor (performer/scholar/mercenary) and invader code, besides hostility and intent? Can our exploits be considered "visits" at some point?
There is something weird with post-worldgen visits and it is the clutter generated in the Legends Mode site entry, I don't know if this has been acknowledged (or is currently a bug) and this might sound a bit suggestion-y, but is there a possibility to get more detailed entries regarding visitors (such as what where they doing, what was their initial intention and/or if they were able to make a residence agreement)? If there's no room for those details in Legends Mode, how hard would it be to implement a cull feature, similar to what we currently have for lesser brown events within the Age sub-menu?
1. Will it be possible for gods to disguise themselves as mortals and test real mortals and bless/curse them depending on how they do?
2. Would it be possible for magic in some worlds to be affected by a person's emotions? Like more strong/unstable when in an intense emotional state?
3. Would it be possible through magical means for a mortal to acquire godlike power?
If our fortress were to somehow discover the location of a vault, could we send a squad to steal its slab? Would the corresponding demon of the slab become quite fixated on destroying our fortress if word spread that we had their slab?
Is there anything in this next release that's kind of trivial but you're really looking forward to see live? Like a small addition or bug-fix that you wanted to do for a while and finally had the chance to?
As far as the discoveries and scholarship system goes: Are there any plans for actively harmful discoveries? E.g. bloodletting which can end up harming your Dwarves, or a philosophy of nihilism which ends up making them morose if they think about it? Or even Lovecraft-style Forbidden Knowledge which drives the reader insane?
Will there be any changes to "highest moodable skills" when creating artifacts regarding dwarves with no skills, such as children? So to prevent them from growing up into lowly craftsdwarves?
Will workshops presently not eligible for artifact creation, i.e. kiln, be available as well in the future?
Can we choose specifically how our squad will approach a mission? 'Sneak in, sneak out', 'Make friends, nick their stuff', 'all-out attack', etc? Or will dorfs decide for themselves?
Also,
Can we choose what we want dorfs to aim for (besides artifacts)? Not so important for vanilla, but I imagine stealing steel weapons from nearby dorfs could be part of a modded human civ play strategy.
And,
While working through the coding of leaving and returning squads, did you come across the reason for any recent bugs? "Sieges" that dissapear instantly, sieges that don't end, disappearing caravans, etc?
Going back to the fake identities mechanic, if we visit a retired player fortress and claim to be someone we're not, if I then join the fortress and retire which identity will I see on the retired adventurer if I play that fortress? Does he get the full vampire fake name and background? Just a fake name? Nothing at all?
Quote from: BeagWill adventure mode eventually include options for the player to live a more peaceful life if they so choose such as taking up a profession?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerDev notes. Settle down, build a farm/run an inn, raise a family.
That and 'bard' is pretty peaceful right now. More so when you can convince enemy civs you're on their side in the next release. (Requires festivals to move out of worldgen into 'real life' to be a bit more feature complete though).
The latest development report, 04/27/2017, described the post mission report, but it's a bit confusing. It seems to be a report viewable only post mission (and thus not during the mission), but on the other hand it talks about viewing things in real time. Does this means we bring up the report after the mission and a "video" is played out where a line grows with events appearing on it as the playback rolls on? If so, would you have to sit through it several times if you wanted to look up details later, or is it played out once and you then can access the various notes?
Would dwarves on a mission outside the fortress can getcurses from defiling temples or being bitten by vampires and werebeasts?
When will we be able to peddle/become fake prophets?As adventurer or as sending out some dwarves to other site for infiltration, disguised as false prophets?
Yeah, I mentioned those old flight sim games, but I guess they are old, he he he. It shows a "flight path", which is being recounted by the squad members that survived, and they tell you the interesting things that happened on the way as each point of interest is reached. It plays on the world map like a little movie. That doesn't mean it is super interesting -- just a path moving with a date and some unfolding event text. You can rewatch it any time from the 'r'eport screen. When you replay it (or the first time), you can just press enter and it skips to the end with all the notes listed, or you can watch the movie again if you want to. You can also pause. I don't yet have a rewind feature, but it would be feasible.How long are these reports going to stick around? Old combat reports tend to disappear.
[...]earnest requests for artifacts you might have liberated for which there is another strong claim.
Will we be able to raid vaults and bring back divine materials?Answer is literally in Toady's reply a couple of posts up.
Does artifact theft, looting, etc take into account whether the artifact is currently utilized in a building construction? (A crucial artifact floodgate, for instance.) A question both for how raiders will handle this behind-the-scenes, and when they eventually turn up to take try to diplomatically/forcefully take that artifact floodgate burried deep in the earth and surrounded by lava.The situation was dire. A huge goblin army was approaching. There was no hope for the tiny mining community.
Is/will the accessibility of the artifact within a site (behind walls, etc) be taken into account, either?
What happens to an artifact mission when the artifact is atom-smashed or something similar? Do artifacts generate historical logs about their destruction by these means?
Regarding the magic system, are there plans to make magic capable of changing biomes from one type to another? For example, if magic could affect the weather, could it eventually change a rainforest into a desert during world gen, or vice versa?Magic is still some way off, so you're unlikely to get a definite answer. It certainly fits the DF theme to be able to change both magic and "natural" sphere influence over an area. However, it may not appear in the first magic arc, and it might not be available to all of world gen, fortress mode, adventure mode, and activated world (i.e. action performed by a non player party) in the same release. Changing mundane factors like forest to desert during world gen makes for a cool story, but wouldn't have much effect on game play (it could result in and explain why an elven capital is situated in the middle of a desert, but not much beyond that. It would be much more interesting to have the elven capital situated in the middle of a dessert, such as on top of a giant plum pudding).
If you can send squads of legendarily lethal and effective soldiers out on the world map, anywhere to anything including routine disposal of dangerous wildlife, bandit camps, nightcreatures and Ettins and the like, is there any point to adventure mode?"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games."
If you can send squads of legendarily lethal and effective soldiers out on the world map, anywhere to anything including routine disposal of dangerous wildlife, bandit camps, nightcreatures and Ettins and the like, is there any point to adventure mode?
Are questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?If that question was aimed at Toady you should mark it in (lime) green (by modifying your post). That's the convention used to draw his attention to what to be answered to set it apart from the noise in this thread.
Are questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?If that question was aimed at Toady you should mark it in (lime) green (by modifying your post). That's the convention used to draw his attention to what to be answered to set it apart from the noise in this thread.
I wonder with artifact theft raids and wars if an aventurer couldn't just grab it and drop it off wherever and circumvent the entire process.Artifact hunting spies/adventurers, etc will try to track the location of the artifact through rumours and such. And as Toady just said, if an adventurer (player or otherwise) has taken it, you'll have the opportunity to tell the invading army that when they come to negotiate.
Would the wars ever be settled? Or would civilizations be forever locked in a horribld neverending war over the possession of a legendary gypsum mug?
I guess it needs a magic element for it to make much sense. Nations now don't go to war over masterpieces of art but if you had a mug that cured any illness or somesicj if you drank from it I could see wars happening.
For myths and magic, will it be possible for non-goblin civs (or heretic adventurers) to align with, serve, and worship demons consciously (as opposed to being duped or conquered)?Yep.
1.How do you plan to enable more skills in adventure mode, future release?Skills like animal trainer or some farmer skills would make adventure mode even more interesting.
2.Seems magic is implementing,will their be aquatic civ?
1.How do you plan to enable more skills in adventure mode, future release?Skills like animal trainer or some farmer skills would make adventure mode even more interesting.
2.Seems magic is implementing,will their be aquatic civ?
1. Those skills are not in the short term yet, so you won't receive a definite answer. Animal training could be implemented as soon as we have rideable horses, and farming might be something that comes up with the revamped economy, but we'll have to wait several years until that happens.
2. Magic won't be fully implemented during this first pass (and even then we don't know when this first pass is going to happen). There aren't any plans or mentions yet of aquatic civs, and we would need boats for their interactions to be meaningful, so a couple of releases will happen before they become a thing.
4. If yes we could try to raid a retired player fortress on the other side of the word that takes more than 2 weeks to cross and then unretire it and try to defend from invaders?
We haven't handled the fort receiving artifact raids yet -- hopefully we'll get to that this month! Depending on how that turns out, you might end up with something more diplomatic, or the dwarven band trying to sneak in. A generic fort-sent raid often ends up being sneaky, due to the numeric differences, and we haven't handled that sort of thinking for attacks on player forts yet.
1. The "Current Development" note 05/06/2017 mentions the option to go to the tavern to get loose lipped inhabitants reveal the location and then the options of demanding the artifact or leave the tavern and then try to sneak in (see my question above) if they don't have prior knowledge of its location.
Here's a common one: It's been almost a year since the last published update. Are you aiming for an annual release?
I'm sure some variation of this has been answered, so anyone answering is appreciated if he has already done so.For this release? No. Eventually. Sounds good, no time line.
The latest post made on the front page notes that questers can simply ask you for an artifact. You noted that saying no could start fights and send invasions, but is there going to be any actual benefit from giving them the item, other than to appease them? Will friendly civs grant you bonuses, or send troops to aid you, sell you stuff for cheaper, or anything like that?
For this release? No. Eventually. Sounds good, no time line.
The upcoming release will "just" add artifact quests to the current DF, so the only reasons to give up artifacts in that release are to retain trade (such as it is, but some people like tame giant [war] animals, for instance), stave off invasion and role playing.I'm sure some variation of this has been answered, so anyone answering is appreciated if he has already done so.For this release? No. Eventually. Sounds good, no time line.
The latest post made on the front page notes that questers can simply ask you for an artifact. You noted that saying no could start fights and send invasions, but is there going to be any actual benefit from giving them the item, other than to appease them? Will friendly civs grant you bonuses, or send troops to aid you, sell you stuff for cheaper, or anything like that?
@Random_Dragon: "ever" is a rather long time... If Toady plugs along for another 20 years I think you would find reasons to give up artifacts. Depending on the strength of your prejudices, you might even stoop so low as to do it to elves ;)
What if you are being offered two artifatcs forma the onr you have?
Or you are offered 100 elven slaves?
Here are some questions about a more peaceful life in Adventure Mode:Sounds good, no timeline.
1. Will our adventurers eventually be able to marry people and have children?
2. Will low income property eventually be available to our adventurers for purchase such as the small houses the villagers in hamlet's live in?
3. Will our adventurers eventually be able to buy empty plots of land in a civ and be allowed to build their own structure on said plot?
What if you are being offered two artifatcs forma the onr you have?
Or you are offered 100 elven slaves?
Still, it'd probably be ignored, and this thread will continue to be full of, 'will peasant armies ever storm your fortress in search of food?', 'how about cannons?', 'will goblins sell recipe books on how to best stew a hippy?'
Can't be helped, it's an exciting game to speculate about. :)
Still, it'd probably be ignored, and this thread will continue to be full of, 'will peasant armies ever storm your fortress in search of food?', 'how about cannons?', 'will goblins sell recipe books on how to best stew a hippy?'
Can't be helped, it's an exciting game to speculate about. :)
Or minor annoyances like cannibalism being broken, or headgear having no option for covering the face or neck, or recipes being FUBAR in adventure mode, or not being able to flag other workshops as buildable in adventure mode, or Toady having handled giant desert scorpions in the worst way possible... :V
Here are some questions about a more peaceful life in Adventure Mode:
3. Will our adventurers eventually be able to buy empty plots of land in a civ and be allowed to build their own structure on said plot?
So if this has been answered before feel free to step in, but why are those masks currently disabled in both Fortress and Adventure mode?IIRC masks are only used by goblins in vanilla DF.
(Not sure if any of these questions have been asked but if they have feel free to skip them)
With the new magic system will there be ways mod in races with specific inborn magical skills? Such as telekinesis, mind reading, shape-shifting, ect.
Will the ability to learn and use spells be open to any race or will you be able to define a race that is unable to use 'active' magic.
Also one question to relating to the stuff you've been talking about in the last few FotF reply... (feel free to ignore it)
Will there ever be some sort of modable, perhaps RAW level, file that allows us to add in custom site types (DARK_FORTRESS, CAVE_DETAILED, ECT.) by means of some very basic tile-based RNG thing so we could make a completely new civ type or monster layer?
(The last one I ask because I think it be awesome if we could define a civ type that lives like in underground beehives like structures or great cities that are just one huge tower... Though if it is something that was being thought about it probably be a long while before we get it)
Ok to clarify an earlier question of mine:1) This is a suggestion. Use the suggestions forum.
Will we eventually be able to buy plots of land in sites and be allowed to build structures on said plot?
Mansions for sale
Renting/buying cottages and other properties
Ok to clarify an earlier question of mine:
Will we eventually be able to buy plots of land in sites and be allowed to build structures on said plot?
Once land rights are established, whoever owns the land you build your hut on won't be too happy about it.Ok to clarify an earlier question of mine:
Will we eventually be able to buy plots of land in sites and be allowed to build structures on said plot?
This might be complicated by the fact that you currently can just walk out and build on any region that doesn't count as owned, and also isn't a lair or cave.
Once land rights are established, whoever owns the land you build your hut on won't be too happy about it.Ok to clarify an earlier question of mine:
Will we eventually be able to buy plots of land in sites and be allowed to build structures on said plot?
This might be complicated by the fact that you currently can just walk out and build on any region that doesn't count as owned, and also isn't a lair or cave.
I imagine you'll be able to get away with building randomly in wasteland areas though (especially ones where it raid blood).
*The frogman husk is enraged*
hippity hoppity GET OFF MA PROPERTY
Although the (hopefully next update) linked up ties to the civ parent of your adventurer groups might cover it, will there be other ways for the world to become aware of artifacts you stashed in your campsite?Knowledge of artifacts spreads through rumours.
Will we get an indication of the size of the invading force when we go out to hear their demands?
Nervous gorlak: Surrender the artifact platinum thong or face our wrath!
Sceptical dorf: Who's wrath?
Nervous gorlak: Our...hordes are ready to overrun your fortress...they're camped just behind that rock.
--nervous kobold-like twittering is heard from behind the woefully small rock.
Sceptical dorf: I think we'll take our chances. Bye.
About diplomacy: Will there be orders from the capital to be followed (e.g. paying taxes [food, coins, metal,...]) and restrictions to be watched (e.g. a hamlet is only allowed to fish a fixed number of raw fish / only to mine a fixed amount of metal ore / cut down a fixed number of trees - unless the king gets a noble gift to set the number higher)?Fortress diplomacy in this case is focused entirely on artifact claims for starting/stopping wars and upsetting other folk.
as long as invaders have no way to dig in your fortress or destroy drawbridges, i don't see why would anybody give artifacts to anyone...even with a ton of animals or troops.It's handy for those playing mods without drawbridges and featuring vastly more lethal beasts than goblins. And it'll be useful in the long-term when we try to build non-military sites.
About diplomacy: Will there be orders from the capital to be followed (e.g. paying taxes [food, coins, metal,...]) and restrictions to be watched (e.g. a hamlet is only allowed to fish a fixed number of raw fish / only to mine a fixed amount of metal ore / cut down a fixed number of trees - unless the king gets a noble gift to set the number higher)?Fortress diplomacy in this case is focused entirely on artifact claims for starting/stopping wars and upsetting other folk.
Relations with the parent civ is still a way off (it's part of the releases after the mythgen/magic releases which are up next after this artifact release is complete).
I don't think anything specific has been mentioned, but it's a reasonable assumption as the new artifact claims are owned by families. It'd be reasonable to expect a royal family (if such a thing were to exist after the society releases) to pass down artifacts like crowns or maybe the royal pigtail socks...About diplomacy: Will there be orders from the capital to be followed (e.g. paying taxes [food, coins, metal,...]) and restrictions to be watched (e.g. a hamlet is only allowed to fish a fixed number of raw fish / only to mine a fixed amount of metal ore / cut down a fixed number of trees - unless the king gets a noble gift to set the number higher)?Fortress diplomacy in this case is focused entirely on artifact claims for starting/stopping wars and upsetting other folk.
Relations with the parent civ is still a way off (it's part of the releases after the mythgen/magic releases which are up next after this artifact release is complete).
Thanks for the info! Do you know, if there is a plan to connect artefacts with noblesse (artefacts as crown and scepter are natural candidats)?
I expect the artifacts creator to tantrum hard if an artifact is handed over.I'm hoping losing an artifact (to theft or diplomacy) would upset the whole fortress. That'd give some motive for sending people out on recovery missions. Toady mentioned fortress-wide trauma for abandoning rescued children so perhaps something similar?
Thanks for the info! Do you know, if there is a plan to connect artefacts with noblesse (artefacts as crown and scepter are natural candidats)?I don't think anything specific has been mentioned, but it's a reasonable assumption as the new artifact claims are owned by families. It'd be reasonable to expect a royal family (if such a thing were to exist after the society releases) to pass down artifacts like crowns or maybe the royal pigtail socks...
No idea if you'll be able to claim an artifact for yourself. Not much point right now since adventurers don't have (and can never have) families. Take it and it's yours (until someone stronger than you comes looking for it...).QuoteThanks for the info! Do you know, if there is a plan to connect artefacts with noblesse (artefacts as crown and scepter are natural candidats)?I don't think anything specific has been mentioned, but it's a reasonable assumption as the new artifact claims are owned by families. It'd be reasonable to expect a royal family (if such a thing were to exist after the society releases) to pass down artifacts like crowns or maybe the royal pigtail socks...
Good to know. Just that I understand right, to have an artefact in your {i}nventory does not count as possession, right? You have to tal{k} to someone specific to make the claim for the artefact (similar to the claim of sites)?
Hey ! Some questions regarding the update of the 20th of May (hope none was already asked, if so, forgive me, I'm new there).Negotiations will be with the smaller groups and individuals. Will be interesting to see if they offer anything in return (perhaps only 'good relations' for now).
As you mention negociations, will it be possible to trade/exchange the requested artefact?
If so, will it be possible to ask for something the attacking army/civ don't currently have (like another artifact) or a specific task (kill that dragon), the attacking army sending then a group of soldier to fulfill the demand?
Armies surely aren't going to offer you anything (except your lives if you're lucky).
An army that's crossed the world and is about to attack you that demands your artifact socks because the ruler of the nation has decided they belong to his family aren't just "passing through".Armies surely aren't going to offer you anything (except your lives if you're lucky).
Depends if they are just passing through the neighbourhood or on business i suppose. Id like to relinquish some of thier loot & spare supplies and if im playing a particularly ethically dubious race maybe i can exchange some of my own slaves for some of theirs captured from their raid.
Will non-dwarven player entities have different civ-mode raiding actions? Goblins raiding for slaves/babies; Kobolds doing general thievery, with the option of them attacking enemy forces directly, or doing it stealthily.Yeah, it would be a nice easter egg to see goblins civs replace "rescue children" with "swipe children". I imagine 'general raid' is the same as what kobolds do now.
The thought of a passing army of 500 elves just turning up at your site, setting up camp then indulging in idle chit-chat and artifact trading is pretty amusing though.snipsnip
I meant it more as a sort of free opportunity to actively give charity, say if a army has run out of munitions and you're the nearest friendly site to resupply, so the leader wanders in and ask for a petition to speak.
(what does SGNT mean? I've not heard the phrase before)
How much time do you think you could have saved if you hadn't added the raws?Making the game mod-friendly has no doubt increased the number of fans who have deep technical knowledge of the game and have stuck around for years. They've helped out several times (running the bug tracker, advising on the Linux compiler upgrade, etc). Who knows if they'd still be here if the game was deliberately non-friendly to modders. Can you measure that time saved?
Weapon sizes are actually defined in the raws, so the current system of kobolds using daggers seems fine.
when it comes to tying squads into the larger military side of things, will the 'army' be made up of different dwarf squads doing the same task? I.E instead of telling Squad A to do X, you would 'form an army' consisting of Squad A and Squad B to go do X.Armies are a long, long way off. All that's been mentioned so far is that it will involve recruiting from the actual surrounding populations of deep dwarves and hill dwarves. It's not likely that you'll ever have 5000 'live' dorfs to pick up and form an army from in the current form of fortress mode.
Just some grinding away this week, including the weapon trap crash that has been around since the last release. The last major step is to get the kobold cave maps up to a point where they are suitable for retrieving artifacts from. I started refamiliarizing myself with the relevant cave/site code today. Aside from that, it's a bunch more random tweaking and cleaning and promises to keep, but at least the end is in sight out there.
Just some grinding away this week, including the weapon trap crash that has been around since the last release.
w͓̟ͅe҉̭̦̼̬̰̪͕a͇̥͎͓̠̼͍p̢̰͙͇̺̤o̴̗̺͎n͎̻̫̼̤͇ ̙͉̯̣͚̮̼ṯ̰ṟ͈͕̘̟̟a͏̪͕̭͇̲p̵͕ ͖̮͔͉̱͡c̛̺͕̲̻̣͚r҉̦͉̜a̠̥̞͍s͚̖̠̱̜h̵
In other mods the best I've been able to do is give them a "chieftain" like profession with hearthperson-equivalents, which causes camping soldiers to populate the area around the cave. Sadly these soldiers can't be recruited if you make kobolds playable, because they count as being constantly being on the move.[/color]
I can answer this one, you need to set non-duty bound militias & militia leaders (like a dwarf setup) to mill around the site, if they aren't duty bound they'll team up with you, duty bounds will refuse and stay at the site. Im not sure if your problem is specific to militia units having nowhere inside the cave/settlement to pitch up.
[POSITION:CHIEFTAIN]
[NAME:chieftain:chieftains]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT]
[SQUAD:20:warrior:warriors]
[PRECEDENCE:1]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[FLASHES]
[COLOR:2:0:1]
How many dwarves (or citizens of other races) are you able to send out? Both in one group and as a percentage of the whole population of your fort. Or the other way around, will just one citizen staying home be enough? I guess you can't send all of them out.
When will we be able to peddle/become fake prophets?
How long are these reports going to stick around? Old combat reports tend to disappear.
For the upcoming version, will there be diplomatic consequences for accepting/denying such a request other than war? Say, traders bringing more goods or offering it cheaper?
Or more generally, will there be any other diplomatic relations besides war and trade caravans at all? Will there be anything the player has an influence on?
I'm thinking about - analogous to the trade requests - deals like encouraging or deterring migrants/visitors (possibly limited to a certain skill profile), recruiting soldiers from other civs for future allied raids, etc.
Hey Toady, have you seen this at all?
Dwarf Fortress For The Blind (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145179.0)[/color]
Does artifact theft, looting, etc take into account whether the artifact is currently utilized in a building construction? (A crucial artifact floodgate, for instance.) A question both for how raiders will handle this behind-the-scenes, and when they eventually turn up to take try to diplomatically/forcefully take that artifact floodgate burried deep in the earth and surrounded by lava.
Is/will the accessibility of the artifact within a site (behind walls, etc) be taken into account, either?
What happens to an artifact mission when the artifact is atom-smashed or something similar? Do artifacts generate historical logs about their destruction by these means?
Regarding the magic system, are there plans to make magic capable of changing biomes from one type to another? For example, if magic could affect the weather, could it eventually change a rainforest into a desert during world gen, or vice versa?
The "Current Development" note 05/06/2017 mentions fortress artifact theft using essentially the same mechanics as current Kobold theft does, which is not going to work to get an artifact unless you deliberately build a very unsafe fortress (and even then, Keas are much more likely to be able to steal an artifact than anything on foot for a pure theft [i.e. no combat] path).
Are there plans to add fortress artifact theft mechanics that have better chances to succeed, and if so, would the target be for later in the current arc or for a future one?
I have to delve into suggestion-y territory to explain what I mean: Something along the line of tavern visitors who just happen to wander into the museum and drop the artifact into their pockets (basically the way vampires operate: hidden in plain sight). However, for this to be balanced, there would need to be some means by which the fortress could deal with those wanderers (guards who react to crimes [or at least theft of artifacts they're set to guard], restricted access areas [artifact thieves and vampires wouldn't respect them, but they would be respected by "legitimate" visitors, such as diplomats and petitioners], working [as in "activated by visitors"] pressure plates/traps or the like), short of just banning all visitors.
Quote from: Eric BlankAre questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?Quote from: JahldeVautbanAs you mention negociations, will it be possible to trade/exchange the requested artefact?
If so, will it be possible to ask for something the attacking army/civ don't currently have (like another artifact) or a specific task (kill that dragon), the attacking army sending then a group of soldier to fulfill the demand?
1. We can't raid our dwarf-civ but we can attack other dwarf-civs?
2. If yes we will see dwarves siege our fortress in retaliation?
Will artifact thieves in fortress mode enter the map with intuitive knowledge of their target's specific storage location, or will they sneak around until they happen upon it? If the former is true, will the existence and accuracy of such information depend on reports by affiliated agents who witnessed the artifact during prior reconnaissance operations?
With the new magic system will there be ways mod in races with specific inborn magical skills? Such as telekinesis, mind reading, shape-shifting, ect.
Will the ability to learn and use spells be open to any race or will you be able to define a race that is unable to use 'active' magic.
Also one question to relating to the stuff you've been talking about in the last few FotF reply... (feel free to ignore it)
Will there ever be some sort of modable, perhaps RAW level, file that allows us to add in custom site types (DARK_FORTRESS, CAVE_DETAILED, ECT.) by means of some very basic tile-based RNG thing so we could make a completely new civ type or monster layer?
(The last one I ask because I think it be awesome if we could define a civ type that lives like in underground beehives like structures or great cities that are just one huge tower... Though if it is something that was being thought about it probably be a long while before we get it)
why are those masks currently disabled in both Fortress and Adventure mode?
Coming up next is the Myth & Artifact release
Although the (hopefully next update) linked up ties to the civ parent of your adventurer groups might cover it, will there be other ways for the world to become aware of artifacts you stashed in your campsite?
...
I more meant like if they will be aware of the location, as right now there is the missing awareness of it as belonging to your parent entity so people only note if they are directly told someone is there/killed there, versus knowing it exists as part of a given civilization's children entities via normal information dispersal.
Will we be able to lie to the invaders and redirect/distract them?
"Nope, sorry, you're a week late, unfortunately. It's a real shame, but, as chance would have it, we've just had the Horn of Undulating Phlegm stolen last week by those damn humans from the Clanging Spandex. Very rude of them! I'm sorry you've come all this way, but you'll have to go and poke them with your shiny sticks. You look very tired, could I interest you in some tea?"
Will we get an indication of the size of the invading force when we go out to hear their demands?
Will surrendered items count as exports? Stolen items? Will items our raids bring back count as imports?
(is there) a plan to connect artefacts with noblesse (artefacts as crown and scepter are natural candidats)?
Will non-dwarven player entities have different civ-mode raiding actions? Goblins raiding for slaves/babies; Kobolds doing general thievery, with the option of them attacking enemy forces directly, or doing it stealthily.
Toady, with the current direction of a diplomacy, could this lead to influencing the decisions of civs/war leaders into actively turning around armies to help you with reinforcements by delivering friendly forces to help fight on the map?
It'd be nice to get some recognition by armies for being a 'safe haven' to rest with the FOB thing Random_Dragon when you actively put your citizens at risk bordering a goblin civilization or in a extremely hostile & monster ridden environment that armies are too scared to cross over.
When can we expect to see the sizes of weapons (and possibly other non-resizing items like backpacks) resize in the sense that clothing presently does. By this I mean not that the items resize automatically to fit the creature carrying it but that the actual items are made according to the size of a specific creature. So for instance a sword made for a kobold is far smaller (and lighter) with a lower contact area than a sword made for an elephant person.
when it comes to tying squads into the larger military side of things, will the 'army' be made up of different dwarf squads doing the same task? I.E instead of telling Squad A to do X, you would 'form an army' consisting of Squad A and Squad B to go do X.
On a side note, what will kobold caves end up looking like in terms of population actually existing there and performing normal civilian behavior?
The weapon trap crash reminds me - will that also fix the crashes occuring when ammo breaks? It's not as noticable in vanilla, however with my own modpack I noticed that when a certain type of ammo breaks it also causes a crash.
One of the few usages of the current Civ screen is to allow you to determine if a civ is truly dead (completely blank on embark), and it is the only known way to make that determination. Will the replacement take over that functionality and, if not, is it planned to provide that information in some other way in the next release?
Moreso a modding related question, but will we eventually be able to have separate graphics for different creature castes?
When magic's gonna be added, will the npc know how to use it properly?
Example: If they have the ability to conjure an adamantine sword with the cost of their life, will they just kill themselves whenever they feel like, or will they do it when they're about to die in order for someone else to get it?
Poison from poison pets! Awesome, moddable? Usable by players in any way? Poison coated weapons?
Nobody performs normal civilian behavior except for your dwarves, unless you count wandering around or the w.g. economy. There'll be a few different places in the caves but not much going on, as is usual so far.
Yeah, that's fixed now. The kobolds you did see were probably in an army patrol (which is why you could find them) so would not be hireable.
Soon kobold hives will be added to the game. Poisonous spiders and reptiles are used as pets and to poison traps! Can you fight your way to the egg chamber and recover the stolen artifacts?
How does Attacking other Civs for Artifacts work exactly? Especially regarding military strenght what happens if i send out a Candy Brigade of Top notch warriors into for example a human Kingdom to steal theior Artifact crown of their king, how does the combat play out? do the Candy warriors destroy the enemy if they don't have equally good troops or does it not matter what kind of Dwarf i send out? i looked around a bit and could not find a explenation how this feature exactly works out.If the question was aimed at Toady, the convention is that you paint it in (lime) green so he can find it when answering.
How does Attacking other Civs for Artifacts work exactly? Especially regarding military strenght what happens if i send out a Candy Brigade of Top notch warriors into for example a human Kingdom to steal theior Artifact crown of their king, how does the combat play out? do the Candy warriors destroy the enemy if they don't have equally good troops or does it not matter what kind of Dwarf i send out? i looked around a bit and could not find a explenation how this feature exactly works out.Someone already asked that, Toady mentioned that equipment and skill matters. My internet is super slow at the moment otherwise I would try to find you the quote from one of his replies in here.
Will I be able to hire people to find artifacts for me in Adventure mode?
Will I be able to hire people to find artifacts for me in Adventure mode?
What Random_Dragon says, in a rather obscure manner, is that the forum convention is that questions aimed at Toady are marked in (lime) green to allow him to find them when answering at the beginning of each month. If your question was aimed at Toady you can just modify your existing post to add the color to it rather than writing a new one.Will I be able to hire people to find artifacts for me in Adventure mode?
Lime green is your friiiieeend. Like this.
Yeah I forgot, it was late :P. The answers I got make sense, I just wasn't sure if he had mentioned it yet. It would make having a base more interesting too.Now then drunks, listen up. Cut down 30 trees. Build a hut. Set-up a workshop. Now go steal me Crestfallen the Sacred Bone of Knowing. This wondrous object was last seen in the Mires of Hellfire. Giant Elephants roam free out there!
Just to recap, npc artifacts (in the next release) will consist of:There are also artifacts named by heroes, so as long as there are heroes in the civ (BEAST_HUNTER and the like), they'll have artifacts.
1) Crafts made by moody dwarves
2) Holy relics (pieces of dead priests and so on) made (blessed?) by humans
What else? Will Elves and Goblins make artifacts, or are they limited to stealing from dwarves and humans and receiving them diplomatically?
If I have a modded town dwelling civ that has no religion or moods, will they make artifacts?
With the coming changes and buffs to kobolds, are we gonna see anything similar for the cavern animal people tribes anytime soon, or is that for later? Right now their presence is almost negligible.It's most probably for later. Animal people is a different set of issues than kobolds. The kobolds is a "civilized" major race with "settlements" that are being overhauled now, while animal peoples are split into "tribes" of underground animal peoples and "tribes" of above ground animal peoples, neither of which have any settlements or equipment beyond what's carried. At a guess, animal peoples would fit into the giant pile of law and custom thingies.
With the inclusion of different planes of existance, what kind of differences could planes have between worlds? For example, could we have a plane made entirely of gold filled with a single type of creature?That kind of plane sound quite possible. The first pass of inter planar contact will have one way portals that allow creatures from the other plane to get into the mundane world. The intention is to allow for player interaction to open/close (some) portals.
Also, how will these planes interact with the normal world?
1. Will our adventurers eventually have family relations like parents?1) Yes. One day. One day you may be able to pick from any historical character. You may also get to play as a decendent of a previous adventure.
2. Will our demigod adventurers have godly parents who can grant them divine powers?
Given that Kobolds lay eggs, what should happen if an adventurer steals a fertilized egg from some kobold caves? Would the egg hatch into a newborn kobold?In principle, if the eggs were kept at a proper temperature, you'd be able to hatch them. However, it's unlikely incubators are going to be included in DF as I think it's a fairly recent invention. It's more probable that leaving the eggs in the nest box and wait for them to hatch will work (it seems fortress egg layers can be butchered a fair while before the eggs hatch without preventing the eggs from hatching). Regardless, newborn kobolds would be hostile to the player.
Regardless, newborn kobolds would be hostile to the player.
You'll just have to make do with an omelette. Sorry.Regardless, newborn kobolds would be hostile to the player.
Butbutbut I want a pet kobold. ;w;
You'll just have to make do with an omelette. Sorry.
Newborns being hostile to basically anything ever seems like a gameplay limitation, and a prime thing to change at some point.If I understand it correctly it's simply a result of how the taming mechanism is implemented, where children (live birthed as well as hatched) inherit their mother's taming level and civ affiliation. On top of that you have the fact that Kobolds are sapients and the current dwarven ethics don't accept slavery (but goblin baby snatching shows that it's possible to convert enslaved children to the enslavers' civs).
As of this version, bows and crossbows are more or less useless in adventure mode, due to the long reload rate and the sheer amount of bolts needed to put a target down, unless you get a lucky hit in. Are there any plans to increase the effectiveness of ranged weapons any time soon, or give them the ability to target specific body parts?
So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
It ought to be that if your modded desired flavor uses the current world as the backdrop things ought to work more or less the same as now, with only minor (myth generated) variations to the standard (and introduced) races. Toady has also said he's looking at ways to allow you to lock down some features while allowing others to run free, forcing myth to explain why the locked down stuff is that way, so it might also work at other points along the line. There will be quirks and bugs, of course...So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
That's what I've been eagerly awaiting to hear, because I can't easily think of anything the impending update will give just yet.
I'm worried the eventual myth arc that allows for generated races will basically fuck over modders that try to set a specific desired flavor for the world.
So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
That's what I've been eagerly awaiting to hear, because I can't easily think of anything the impending update will give just yet.
I'm worried the eventual myth arc that allows for generated races will basically fuck over modders that try to set a specific desired flavor for the world.
Etc, this dog is the same class of animal as this other dog but this magic dog can talk without having to define it as a caste or individually because its all from the same family.Castes usually denote a familiarial or lifestage/gendered application of a creature rather than a genuine subspecies or variation brought about by alternative means. (A way to add in dragon types?)
So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
That's what I've been eagerly awaiting to hear, because I can't easily think of anything the impending update will give just yet.
I've been working with the old entity animal code, but the next step is to update that to allow more control over entities and their animals. For vanilla DF now, that'll be so kobolds can focus on poisonous creatures, but hopefully it'll be a bit more flexible for everybody, probably focusing on creature classes and tokens.
So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
That's what I've been eagerly awaiting to hear, because I can't easily think of anything the impending update will give just yet.
Please try not to complain if you won't even put in the minimum of effort required to do any research.
From the first devlog you'll see on the website right now:QuoteI've been working with the old entity animal code, but the next step is to update that to allow more control over entities and their animals. For vanilla DF now, that'll be so kobolds can focus on poisonous creatures, but hopefully it'll be a bit more flexible for everybody, probably focusing on creature classes and tokens.
Well, modded stuff that depends on the slider settings to match in order to make sense do have such dependencies (High magic modding matched with a no magic slider setting?). Thus, mods will have to come with slider compatibility guides in addition to locking down desired features. Now, if a mod could somehow specify legal slider value ranges, that might work (and cause a headache when someone tries to combine two mods with incompatible settings).
The point being missed here is that eventually, the players using the mod will be the ones having to expend effort to make things work right.
I'll happily do whatever needs to be done to keep a mod in working order, but if there's nothing I can do except tell players "yeah no, don't do X" it's less an annoyance to me, and more an annoyance to people using said mods. I already have a few mod features that will do dumb things if the player does specific things, but "breaks when going outside normal usage" is a whole different beast compared to "breaks UNLESS you go outside normal usage."
The new entity animal framework is set up, though I've only used it for kobolds. It's pretty basic -- you can compel an entity to use creatures that either belong to a list of classes (classes can also be excluded), or by their token, and you can set them to either use matching animals from the environment or to get a free environment-independent starting population as with the current domestic creatures. You can optionally override the mount/wagon puller/etc. roles defined in the creature definition, setting them to always or never be used for those roles.
Yeah, no, devlog just now says that none of this is true and you were worrying over nothing.QuoteThe new entity animal framework is set up, though I've only used it for kobolds. It's pretty basic -- you can compel an entity to use creatures that either belong to a list of classes (classes can also be excluded), or by their token, and you can set them to either use matching animals from the environment or to get a free environment-independent starting population as with the current domestic creatures. You can optionally override the mount/wagon puller/etc. roles defined in the creature definition, setting them to always or never be used for those roles.
Nevermind the fact that my complaint was about the myth and magic arc, not the updates that are soon to come. Randomly-generated playable civs are absolutely going to fuck with mods that desire a specific creature to be playable, UNLESS modders have a way to forcibly disable this feature without simply trusting players to turn the slider down.
So there's a new poisonous class of animals. And scorpions are poisonous (especially really big ones) so...
Kobolds ambush too? Never seen that. Ok. That's what I meant then.
When will plant like the willow actually be dioecious?(Gendered plants)Don't think plants are part of this next update. If that's what it's meant to be then the answer will almost certainly be 'One day. No timeline'. When development focusses again on shrubs no doubt.
When will plant like the willow actually be dioecious?(Gendered plants)Would this actually be noticeable outside a few cases like ginkgo biloba?
Also, hello, Bay12 forums!
The development page mentioned turning off magic in the world, what would happen if you turn off magic while playing as a creature that depends on magic to survive? Do you get a special death message, or possibly something mocking you for it?They're settings for worldgen, so that wouldn't happen.
Also, hello, Bay12 forums!
So... This means we can put animals to pull carts now?
When will plant like the willow actually be dioecious?(Gendered plants)Would this actually be noticeable outside a few cases like ginkgo biloba?
You chop the tree mimic with the copper axe! it is a gelding strike!
The tree mimic reawakens from its dormancy
The tree mimic flies into a fit of rage!
Urist woodcutter's head collapses by the force of tree mimic's hand punch
Urist woodcutter has been struck down
Gonna go ahead and ask a question regarding the new entity pet stuff - will it mean it'd be possible to add sentient beings to always appear with a particular civ? I.e a modded civ always having tigermen citizens in it.
you can compel an entity to use creatures that either belong to a list of classes (classes can also be excluded), or by their token
Or to get a free environment-independent starting population as with the current domestic creatures. (wondering if that implies that the starting population of creatures can also be exterminated without being able to redeem them)
It would be immensely useful if just to have modded civs that always specific types of animals regardless of their rarity - it makes me really excited for whenever the update comes out.
It would be immensely useful if just to have modded civs that always specific types of animals regardless of their rarity - it makes me really excited for whenever the update comes out.
I can definitely see there being uses for this, yeah. I wonder what happens if you tell a civ to use its own species as a pack animal...That gives me ideas.
A while ago, fotf reply? Interview? Sorry I forget exactly when, you mentioned that you'd be looking into optimizing sites in adventurer during this release.
Is that still on the schedule? Kobold sites sound like lots of fun, but not if they run at the current speed of some of the bigger dark fortress/city sites.
Then we'll start working on how site maps relate to artifact storage and display, the site maps that are incomplete (like kobold caves), as well as site lag.
When potions are implemented, are there any plans for adding different ways to apply them and other syndrome-causing substances beyond drinking from a container or being struck by a coated weapon?You mean poisons, right?
I would speculate that it's going to abstracted away in the same manner as blowdarts being poisoned even for subterranean animal people that have even less of the infrastructure to get poison on darts than kobolds.
I would speculate that it's going to abstracted away in the same manner as blowdarts being poisoned even for subterranean animal people that have even less of the infrastructure to get poison on darts than kobolds.
Poison class (or just coincidentally different classes of animal) animals, subterranean preferences and subterranean locked enviroment in a kobold sized set of mini-civ's, doesn't sound awfully hard to prop up with the upcoming changes with some framework to establish in the law & property arc how to using the existing set of subterreanean creature entity raws.
The development page mentioned turning off magic in the world, what would happen if you turn off magic while playing as a creature that depends on magic to survive? Do you get a special death message, or possibly something mocking you for it?They're settings for worldgen, so that wouldn't happen.
Also, hello, Bay12 forums!
In the wider sense there will apparently be ways to change the world by doing certain things (throwing artifact rings into volcanos, killing gods and other such stuff probably) that will alter the fabric of reality and could result in magic being lost from the world (and so on).
Would be a shame if such a major world changing event was met with 'a mocking message'. Doubt it's been thought through in that much detail yet though.
Why would creatures of a certain CREATURE_CLASS be grouped together into one file when CREATURE_CLASSes are arbitrary and a single creature can have any amount? CREATURE_CLASS is not a new feature.
Why would creatures of a certain CREATURE_CLASS be grouped together into one file when CREATURE_CLASSes are arbitrary and a single creature can have any amount? CREATURE_CLASS is not a new feature.
We don't know how its implemented just yet, that 'class' is just syndrome code right now and probably the closest thing to a identifier we already have. It could take any shape of a RAW right now, rather than just being applied like we already have it.
Is it possible to add game rules (like set of professions and skills) and site generation to moddable RAW-s? If it is, can we expect it some when in the future?
The fire snake extract+sword thing makes me wonder when other people will encounter the hilarity I found when I set blood thorn fixed temp to ~12k urists and discovered upon firing the bolts into goblins that the steamy bursts of boiling blood appeared to emanate from my location rather than the target they were stuck into.Instant matter transmission for boiling blood. That's the Armokiest thing I've ever heard.
I don't think it was the goblins' blood.The fire snake extract+sword thing makes me wonder when other people will encounter the hilarity I found when I set blood thorn fixed temp to ~12k urists and discovered upon firing the bolts into goblins that the steamy bursts of boiling blood appeared to emanate from my location rather than the target they were stuck into.Instant matter transmission for boiling blood. That's the Armokiest thing I've ever heard.
3. How much info about the world's creation myth and magic would your average adventurer have access to initially? How about your fort?
This probably has been asked before, but will sieges and megabeasts be eventually able to path faster to the player's fort? It's somewhat annoying to have to go through five years without a single siege or megabeast attack.It takes less than a week for an 'army' to cross an entire medium sized world from point to point. I don't think their speed is the issue. The reason you don't get invaded soon is the population and wealth triggers. Take a look at the wiki. It's literally just a matter of changing the number 3 to the number 1. Anyone can do it. Even works mid-save. Not something that needs "fixing". Making sieges come sooner, isn't fun for some people so we have a choice.
It takes less than a week for an 'army' to cross an entire medium sized world from point to point. I don't think their speed is the issue. The reason you don't get invaded soon is the population and wealth triggers. Take a look at the wiki. It's literally just a matter of changing the number 3 to the number 1. Anyone can do it. Even works mid-save. Not something that needs "fixing". Making sieges come sooner, isn't fun for some people so we have a choice.
A possible improvement might be adding an option for when sieges come in advanced worldgen like the one we have for titans. That might make the system clearer.
But then, this isn't the suggestion board.
I was referring to the speed it takes for sieges to become possible (thieves have been broken for ages) in response to the question. 80% of the 'I've got no goblins' posts on this forum are a result of having the triggers set too high and not realizing it.
This probably has been asked before, but will sieges and megabeasts be eventually able to path faster to the player's fort? It's somewhat annoying to have to go through five years without a single siege or megabeast attack.
It was their blood (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9942), that much I can be sure of (http://i.imgur.com/ZkwMLdi.png).I don't think it was the goblins' blood.The fire snake extract+sword thing makes me wonder when other people will encounter the hilarity I found when I set blood thorn fixed temp to ~12k urists and discovered upon firing the bolts into goblins that the steamy bursts of boiling blood appeared to emanate from my location rather than the target they were stuck into.Instant matter transmission for boiling blood. That's the Armokiest thing I've ever heard.
I don't know why people are so obsessed with huge sieges coming every year, there are more things to do in the game.
But, what about it is broken? Boring, yeah, sure. But without adding artificial 'player fortress magnets' will stay that way until the game provides more reasons for critters to come and attack you (oh, like artifacts. And sliders. And disputes over land. Hmm. It's almost as if the game's actively being developed.)I don't know why people are so obsessed with huge sieges coming every year, there are more things to do in the game.
Because it's a part of the game that doesn't even remotely work anymore. Protip: disabling siegers entirely if you don't want them is a lot easier than getting invaders to hurry their asses up and invade you when the feature's broken. You disliking the feature is not relevant to the problem of the feature being broken.
Thing is, it used to be that goblins would show up within a reasonable time frame without modding. It's like the happiness system. Yes, it technically works, but it's balanced so poorly that you don't need to worry about invaders anymore.They would appear out of thin air when required. But you already knew that.
I never said I dislike sieges, just that I'm happy with not having them every year.I don't know why people are so obsessed with huge sieges coming every year, there are more things to do in the game.
Because it's a part of the game that doesn't even remotely work anymore. Protip: disabling siegers entirely if you don't want them is a lot easier than getting invaders to hurry their asses up and invade you when the feature's broken. You disliking the feature is not relevant to the problem of the feature being broken.
...do neither of you comprehend what I said? I explicitly said they aren't broken in theory
Because it's a part of the game that doesn't even remotely work anymore.
I mean that I have had goblin armies, from civs that're well within neighbor range, take multiple years to arrive after reaching the siege triggers.You see, siege triggers are not a guarantee that you are going to get sieged. They simply tell the game that you are free game now.
To preempt the inevitable misreading, let me further clarify that: I mean that I have had goblin armies, from civs that're well within neighbor range, take multiple years to arrive after reaching the siege triggers.
Does the Starter Pack feature this yet? Seems like it's even easier than disabling aquifers.I may have missed some context here, but forcing sieges in 0.40+ is much harder than disabling aquifers (meaning nobody has figured out how to do it reliably in almost 3 years).
Though, again, those numbers aren't "trigger a siege when this is reached" but "sieges may be triggered when this is reached".At the very least it will stop all those threads here and at Reddit which start "I've exported billions but still no goblins" and end "...pop cap 50 for fps reasons".
Did you ever find out what happened to the missing monster hunters and their petitions to hunt in your caverns from the last release? Might they finally make an appearance in the upcoming release?Its obvious they got eaten by the monsters in the caverns so don't expect to see them ever again.
Beware the horrors that lurk deep within the Dwarf Fortress code...Did you ever find out what happened to the missing monster hunters and their petitions to hunt in your caverns from the last release? Might they finally make an appearance in the upcoming release?Its obvious they got eaten by the monsters in the caverns so don't expect to see them ever again.
Technically gnomeblight and harmful reagents are possibly applicable, but that matters on exactly how the coating system Adamantine swords for example are strong enough to withstand being lit on fire with fire snake extract for instance because of heat resistances, though you'll probably want to make the dwarf wear gloves or something most certainly like how people try to 'capture' the dust of forgotten beasts then have dwarves die trying to pick it up.I imagine this is a case of "Sounds good, my dwarf went to take a soapy bath and now my cats explode when they clean themselves" (provided it works; it seems like bug-testing would have caught "sold some fire snake extract to elves and they're now on fire"). My own testing with husking dust coated pick resulted in strikes husking enemies as their limbs flew off with that same cutting motion, and then cat-husks in post-combat cleanup - due the picklord being coated in their enemies' blood.
Run around on the battlefield setting elves on fire, watching their rags & flimsy wooden weapons burn, then slice through some solid metal titans and forgotten beasts like butter with the heat of the blade melting them.
Again, just because they can cross the land that fast doesn't mean they will in practice.I'm like 95% sure you know this (f you do, don't need to reply), but in case you don't there's a chance they would (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158646.msg7051512#msg7051512).
It was their blood (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9942), that much I can be sure of (http://i.imgur.com/ZkwMLdi.png).I don't think it was the goblins' blood.The fire snake extract+sword thing makes me wonder when other people will encounter the hilarity I found when I set blood thorn fixed temp to ~12k urists and discovered upon firing the bolts into goblins that the steamy bursts of boiling blood appeared to emanate from my location rather than the target they were stuck into.Instant matter transmission for boiling blood. That's the Armokiest thing I've ever heard.
Hair growth is a physical property, not a cultural one, so unless the goblin culture mandated everyone to be clean shaven (and doesn't except spies), the goblin civ dwarven spy is more likely to give himself away by performing goblin permitted acts not accepted by dwarves while on a mission (such as killing people for private reasons).Pretty sure that without beards defined in the goblin entity raws they won't get beards even if it's physically possible. My question was more from a player's point of view. Fake background is fine, but no beard description on a regular male dwarf would be a bit of a giveaway.
And the current dwarven definition could even work around a cultural taboo on beards, as females do not have facial hair...
But beyond beards even clothes could given away. That's something that need development if Toady wants to be more realistic, and honestly don't know how high could this be on the priority list, if it's even there in the first place.
Hair growth is a physical property, not a cultural one, so unless the goblin culture mandated everyone to be clean shaven (and doesn't except spies), the goblin civ dwarven spy is more likely to give himself away by performing goblin permitted acts not accepted by dwarves while on a mission (such as killing people for private reasons).Most interestingly, you can define the lengths individually for the head/facial hair instead of lumping them under hair in the raws, doing so means your outsiders and such will have long beards AND hair instead of figuring out how to shave while roaming the wilds. On the entity level you can mess with the TS_MAINTAIN_LENGTH values, I did this with goblins by setting them to like 10~15 to represent them shaving their kidnapped children regularly, though this reminds me of a question.
And the current dwarven definition could even work around a cultural taboo on beards, as females do not have facial hair...
Kobolds are also no longer allowed to make claims on artifacts (they still steal them, of course). They always store them in the trophy room now -- finding a single artifact held by a kobold somewhere in the living area was too difficult. Artifacts were disappearing out of my backpack, and that's sorted out.Kobold pickpockets? And by "sorted", I take it you mean you chopped their thieving little hands off?
More likely an instance of this bug (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1179) or its relatives. :PQuote from: Toady OneKobolds are also no longer allowed to make claims on artifacts (they still steal them, of course). They always store them in the trophy room now -- finding a single artifact held by a kobold somewhere in the living area was too difficult. Artifacts were disappearing out of my backpack, and that's sorted out.Kobold pickpockets? And by "sorted", I take it you mean you chopped their thieving little hands off?
What made you remove claims for kobolds? Or were they not meant to have them in the first place? Makes sense I suppose. Will there be a way to set 'claims artifacts' races when modding?
Oh come on! A kobold diplomat with a screen full of *FRIBLDSKRT!* would be epic. It deserves to be a thing!
I think it's more likely that kobolds no longer get to claim artifacts to make sure the artifacts are, in fact, stored in their trophy room, as indicated by the following sentence.
Quote from: FantasticDorfThe former part of reponse obviously mentions using poisons but in general by the next release, will additional 'emissions' such as poisons, blood and sweat (the last two probably situtional to the creature, dragon blood is extremely hot) have more of a purpose for existing upon the import and trading screen, given that copious amounts of honeybee poison is more useful than gremlin tears (unless gremlin tears is used in a specific way possibly related to magic)
Tangental additional question, how do you propose to harvest emissions from monsters that cannot be tamed without first encouraging players to either mod around the problem or somehow scooping reagents off the floor (as to say it spat its poison or dustcloud at you)
> Melting gnomes in gnomeblight coated swords, purposefully applied or throwing captive gnomes into gnome blight tipped trap pits. Looking foward to it.
From the second latter half of the response, does this imply that the kobold caves follow more rules on how to manage egg laying populations, and is this behaviour only doable on cave sites, or will however its implemented (eggboxes? special citizen laying beds) be applicable to all races in all sites?Quote from: Egan_BWGiven that Kobolds lay eggs, what should happen if an adventurer steals a fertilized egg from some kobold caves? Would the egg hatch into a newborn kobold?
You state that Maps, sites, entities, historical figures, artifacts, myths, etc. will be part of the myth and magic update.
Does 'sites' include more natural sites? I'm referring to an extension beyond the current mountain peaks and volcanos as to include things like stone pillars, groves or tar pits.
Just to recap, npc artifacts (in the next release) will consist of:
1) Crafts made by moody dwarves
2) Holy relics (pieces of dead priests and so on) made (blessed?) by humans
What else? Will Elves and Goblins make artifacts, or are they limited to stealing from dwarves and humans and receiving them diplomatically?
If I have a modded town dwelling civ that has no religion or moods, will they make artifacts?
With the inclusion of different planes of existance, what kind of differences could planes have between worlds? For example, could we have a plane made entirely of gold filled with a single type of creature?
Also, how will these planes interact with the normal world?
Will our demigod adventurers have godly parents who can grant them divine powers?
When someone attacks your fort over an artifact that you did not agree to hand over. Is that a deceleration of war or is it just a battle? Can it lead to wars?
Will kobolds have any positions and entity tokens defined as a result of these changes to caves, or will some hardcoded behavior be involved there?
If there are changes to animal code and the summary way animals are handled by civs, would this bring in changes to the taming & domestication system, and also properly simulate worldgenerated animal economies rather than the 'killing fields' in human towns where humans warp in world generated tame cavern creatures below them (olms etc) without any form of actual realized connection other than broad adjacency
Sort of bringing us closer to being able to buy a horse from the local market, if there's a little stable area of the market with animals roaming about and in cages within site animal stockpiles/pastures, having a peek at what the local civ has domesticated and how much ready stock they have of it to put towards a army, food or local defence.
One last question on this point, do any races have specific preferences & handling of aquatic or (moreso water bound) amphibious animals in this new scheme?
Quote from: squamousAs of this version, bows and crossbows are more or less useless in adventure mode, due to the long reload rate and the sheer amount of bolts needed to put a target down, unless you get a lucky hit in. Are there any plans to increase the effectiveness of ranged weapons any time soon, or give them the ability to target specific body parts?Quote from: Max^TMAlternatively: most likely it is "sounds good, nothing scheduled" but being able to mod firing/reload time or at least having the action of firing and reloading split up--instead of automatically reloading while being hacked at with an axe or chewed on by a giant zombie polar bear--would help provide a reason to actually use the ranged attacks rather than throwing the ammo, not to mention the additional tactical depth coming from choosing when and where to prepare another shot. After the combat/movement speed split for melee weapons it feels like ranged weapons have been left behind somewhat, is this going to be included in the eventual combat styles and such rework or was it sitting on a pile of "wanna get to it if pile gets down this far" stuff?
During the magic arc, will night creatures as they currently exist be touched upon in the initial release? Will we see different rules or origins for things like vampires and night trolls? If you get to magical automatons, do you think you'll do anything with constructed undead as well?
If you raid a civ constantly, stealing their stuff and beating up their people, will that civ respect the regular siege triggers before retaliating? Or will there be a new 'annoyed enough to declare war' trigger now? In fact can a civ declare war without sending an army to attack, or is war only 'officially' started the moment a siege begins?
Are the poison vermin one use only wholly consumed in the extraction (requiring recapture or breeding more) or will summary changes to animal-code make vermin on the whole more persistent in the future if they are going to be used in more common commercial use, such as re-milking them for the poison? Such as how mog hoppers have use for making drinks for instance, domesticating them within the dwarven preferences so i can import mog juice ale from the mountainhomes etc.
It's noted that vermin do seem to breed within a certain capacity when they are placed in a 3x3 or 2x2 square for adjacency, so its quite reasonable to use a cave spider silk farm/modified setup and burrowed kennel controls to micro manage a enclosed area. I've made a mint exporting hamsters to the elves before in well decorated cages so it's a piece of cake.
Related, is this poisoned weapon stuff going to be accessed via hardcoded behavior, or will there be some way for custom reactions to make use of this?
So, what do you think the next release will give to modders?
Will the unique elf arrows gain any new effects in this or the forseeable roadplan with the ability to apply effects onto it?
When you were working on the new poisonous animals class, did you put giant desert scorpions back in?
Will kobolds thieves bring their pets with them on raids?
Do all sites have animal containment pits/areas toady? Or is that a exclusive feature to the kobold caves
Quote from: ZM5Gonna go ahead and ask a question regarding the new entity pet stuff - will it mean it'd be possible to add sentient beings to always appear with a particular civ? I.e a modded civ always having tigermen citizens in it.Quote from: GoblinCookieUnder the new predefined pet function that now exists, what happens were I to add in an intelligent creature as an environment independent 'pet' of a civilization started by another type of creature. How well would this work as a workaround for the inability to define a multi-species civilization in the raws? Presumably things work generally as they do with trolls at the moment, no historical figures would be automatically generated but those promoted during play would be able to take up positions (though trolls will never because they cannot speak, so not a perfect analogy).
Another question is what happens if I define a creature in an entity file to be the pet *of* itself. Does this cause everything to crash, or do we end up with two populations, one of which is the pet population and the other the citizen population. I ask not merely out of curiosity but because having a second pet population of the main creature sounds like a good way to prevent population replacement of dark fortresses by stolen children.
A while ago, fotf reply? Interview? Sorry I forget exactly when, you mentioned that you'd be looking into optimizing sites in adventurer during this release.
Is that still on the schedule? Kobold sites sound like lots of fun, but not if they run at the current speed of some of the bigger dark fortress/city sites.
Are kobolds poison immune?
Since they don't have containers, I imagine it must be great Fun trying to get the poison from spider to trap. Or maybe trained spiders and snakes do it by themselves...?
When potions are implemented, are there any plans for adding different ways to apply them and other syndrome-causing substances beyond drinking from a container or being struck by a coated weapon?
Even if they are not particularly a fixture in normal fortress gameplay, will you be able to coat weapons in Arena mode with a liquid of your choice?
1. Will there be a setting for artifact abundance during worldgen?
2. Will there, in the future, exist a need to properly identify an artifact? Right now, everyone is able to immediately recognize an artifact upon seeing it, which usually doesn't make much sense. I'd imagine there'd be several ways to identify an artifact - either someone in your fort has outright seen it before(and is aware of what it is), has heard/read about it somewhere(with varying degrees of certainty), etc. and if you have a suspicion that an item you posses might be an artifact, you could send out a squad of scholars to scour nearby libraries for more info. Even if you know what the artifact is called, you might not know other info, such as origin, magical properties, etc. This could create very interesting situations, for example purchasing a cheap, weird bone crown from a caravan and it turning out to be an ancient artifact that turns the wearer into an extremely powerful lich, causing much fun in the fortress.
3. How much info about the world's creation myth and magic would your average adventurer have access to initially? How about your fort?
Did you ever find out what happened to the missing monster hunters and their petitions to hunt in your caverns from the last release? Might they finally make an appearance in the upcoming release?
And...
What role will prophets (fake or otherwise) play in fortress mode? Will they preach in the taverns (or temples)? Will dwarves get stressed about the future just listening to them? Will they petition? If so, what as? Entertainers? Something new?
I forget how it works exactly, but do kidnapped children retain any of their original entity settings once they reach adulthood, or do they become completely goblin entity members? Specifically I'm thinking about beards. It's all very well goblins sending evil dwarf spies to your fortress with false identities, but lack of beard is going to give them away every time, isn't it?
If NPCs ever gain the ability to scrutinize clothing choice, how will they handle a player that develops a preference for clothing or armor that doesn't match up with their natural identity? This could come about via gear stolen from another civ (taken as trophies for example), via reaction mods, or other methods both within and without the vanilla game's abilities.
Does the TS_PREFERRED_SHAPING tag need a certain format besides just trying stuff like BRAIDED or SHAVED or whatnot? I couldn't get it to work with anything but the STANDARD_*_SHAPINGS entries, which brings up another question, are there any plans to move things like styling/jewelry/where jewelry can be equipped out to the raws in the near future?
Do retired adventurers contribute towards site rumours? For example, if my adventurer has visited or actually started at a fortress with a secret stash of artifacts, or if he's visited other retired adventurers in their own sites and seen their artifacts, is this knowledge recorded and can it then become rumours in the site I retire at? Let's assume I forgot to actively tell everyone about everything I'd seen before retiring.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhat made you remove claims for kobolds? Or were they not meant to have them in the first place? Makes sense I suppose. Will there be a way to set 'claims artifacts' races when modding?Quote from: Random_DragonWith kobolds stealing artifacts and such, how will they react if an artifact is stolen from them? Will they act as if they have an informal, civ or site-level ownership of the artifact by deliberately trying to take it back, or will any re-theft of the artifact be an incidental consequence of kobolds just thieving in general?
Any new tags? I have a mod, and I just wanna be sure what the new tags are so that I may update the mod for the upcoming version!There's usually a list of changes in the 'file changes.txt' with every release.
I haven't added any kobold positions, and I don't think we intend to add them. I devlogged a bit after this question about the new animal and no artifact claim stuff for them, and those are the new changes.
The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease!
On my first pass, I tried several 1000+ dark forts without running into issues. I'm going to try again before the release with some newer saves if they are around. Older saves don't apply since they didn't have the tower sprawl, which spread out the pops to decrease the number of units loaded. If sites are okay with ~500 units loaded, they should be fine, but I'm sure there are still bad towers I just need to run into. I didn't have issues in kobold sites.
Hmm, I see now. Been fiddling with tower density, interesting.
Problem with that is that watchtower population is only part of the lag. Most often it's the bonehoard or whatever you call the pits where goblins inter the dead and store their livestock.
]Do you have any ideas for other HFS level spoilers that you aren't revealing
]Do you have any ideas for other HFS level spoilers that you aren't revealing
See underlined, no issue with asking questions like that but you're probably not going to get a very revealing response when it comes to secretive HFS stuff in which the whole aspect relies on suprise. There's some details about 'possible' things on the development plan (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) and from Toady's comments.
In-game languages: is the new framework intended for the next couple releases? What are the current plans language-wise? Specifically, do you have any of the following in mind?:You're probably better off taking those to the suggestions forum. Sure, there are plans for expanding language one day, but the next few years are going to be spent on cleaning up this next release and getting out one or two mythgen releases. And mythgen's detailed plans don't include a new language framework (at the moment).
- A description of the phonologies and how they map to the orthographies
- Procedurally-generated historical sound changes
- Creature-to-creature spread of sound changes (resulting in dialects, etc.)
- Inter-language influences/borrowing
- Morphology
Thanks for everything!
Backing up Shonai Dweller, there's already 'languages' in the game with different linguistic rules (as seen here (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Language)) and shonai is also right in that you should take & read suggestions similar to that to the suggestions forum.
I would not bet on your chances of Toady replying indepth, or with a response outside of "sounds good, no timeline" or "There are no immediate plans for that in the next few releases"
You have previously mentioned wizard assistants being used as hosts for demons, and you have mentioned sentient artifacts. Would it be possible to bind a demon to an artifact? Would there be any effects based on the demon's attributes?
- An item designed to contain a powerful creature (to keep it imprisoned) would probably try to nullify any effects, but may fail to do so completely (in which case the effects would probably mainly be negative ones).Upon first thought, I'm thinking of an artifact sock that shoots webs everywhere cause someone used it to seal a spider FB.
1. Will some civilizations prohibit the use of magic?Looks more like a suggestion to me.
2. Could some possible corruptions from magic include growing extra limbs such as a tentacle or a tail?
3. Could magic users hide their corruptions under heavy amounts of clothing?
Toady mentioned in last week's reply that civs declare war on your civ as a whole in retaliation for being raided, as opposed to specifically sending counter-attacks to the raiders site.
I guess the small force is just a result of it being a first attack or whatever it is makes goblins only send a small number of troops at first in the current version (wealth? population? Goblin sense of fair play? something like that probably).
Oh, and another question:
What season will dwarves attack in?
Any season? Just Autumn? Any chance to see a seperation of 'friendly merchant visit' and 'gonna kill ya all' active seasons?
Dwarves don't have vanilla siege triggers so it seems that they'd turn up at any time in the autumn regardless (it be interesting to add some later and see if other conflicts such as artifact disputes could trigger a dwarf civil war) like the latest devlog shows.As Toady just said, provoking other civs actually bypasses all the siege triggers anyhow. Sounds like lots of Fun!
The final challenge for a civ who has too much time on their hands and not enough boatmurdered shenanigans, forget goblinite, obtain the most precious dwarfite from your own kind who are also quite OP in terms of martial stances, steel etc.
Will kobold adventurers be fixed next release? All the caves are empty and the kobolds in camps attack me.Since the point of the past couple of month's work is to make kobold caves, then, yeah, kobold caves will be 'fixed'.
Will kobold adventurers be fixed next release? All the caves are empty and the kobolds in camps attack me.Since the point of the past couple of month's work is to make kobold caves, then, yeah, kobold caves will be 'fixed'.
Weren't kobold adventurers removed from the last release? With no playable races adventurer stops being an option for some reason.
So, I guess it's just your mod which is broken.
Yes. So what was your question? Other Kobolds attack you when you mod them to be playable as adventurers?Will kobold adventurers be fixed next release? All the caves are empty and the kobolds in camps attack me.Since the point of the past couple of month's work is to make kobold caves, then, yeah, kobold caves will be 'fixed'.
Weren't kobold adventurers removed from the last release? With no playable races adventurer stops being an option for some reason.
So, I guess it's just your mod which is broken.
Pretty sure just adding [ALL_MAIN_POPS_CONTROLLABLE] won't break anything.
Yes. So what was your question? Other Kobolds attack you when you mod them to be playable as adventurers?
Well, it's not a bug if you have to mod to get it.
No more new features in this release than what's already been shown on the blog. Now is the time for bug fixing and release comes right after that. If you're very lucky kobold adventurer features might come shortly after the next release, but I doubt it.
Will kobold adventurers be fixed next release? All the caves are empty and the kobolds in camps attack me.
Will kobold adventurers be fixed next release? All the caves are empty and the kobolds in camps attack me.
As far as I'm aware of, both goblin and kobold bandits have the same issue if you make their civs playable. Note that with goblins, their regular civilians will still refer to goblin bandits as outlaws, and actual goblin SOLDIERS are prone to interrupting fast travel but otherwise act less hostile to adventurers from their civ.
The real problem with kobold adventurers I've found is that, even if (like in Adventurecraft) you do what what little CAN be done to make a population wander around the cave, they'll be soldiers that you can't recruit, because they prefer patrolling to actually settling down at the cave itself.
Toady's said he didn't do anything involving positions when he started work on ma. while I doubt he's aware of the "can't recruit soldiers" thing because that's outside the scope of what he's actually testing, that means good odds his fixes involve forcing the site to generate a population that actually exists.
Since he's making SOME way for caves to have a population actually INHABIT the site, that means there'll be kobolds that aren't "oscar mike" all the time, and therefore should be valid to recruit. 3:
How do you render the parts where 3 tiles meet at a corner in 2d?
Two questions regarding distant future development details:Just going to butt in here to say that "blood channels" (fullers) are for weight reduction/balance and have nothing to do with blood flow. A stabbed organ is going to bleed, it doesn't need to leave the body for that to be a problem.
Under the "Creation Myths and Magic Systems" arc, you mention that mythic artifacts could come from sources that are either divine, natural, or from ancient races. Do you envision these randomly generated ancient races as being something like the Hindu Devas or Norse Aenir, where they are magical epic versions of the believing race? Or more like a precursor style or superior ancestor, like Tolkien's Numenoreans or something similiar? Neither? Both?
Additionally, we have randomly generated art styles and musical instruments: will we eventually get cultural weapon, raiment and even tool variations along the same lines, with their own names? Like a civilization can currently have a bagpipe that can play two octaves and has a flat tone, will we have short swords with bell-guards, flared pommels, no-dachi blades, and a blood channel? Or a mace with flanges and a curved grip?
As a medieval reenactor that cares about these things, thank you haha. The fuller also gives swords some additional strength, a bar of steel with a groove/fuller is stronger than just a flat bar.Two questions regarding distant future development details:Just going to butt in here to say that "blood channels" (fullers) are for weight reduction/balance and have nothing to do with blood flow. A stabbed organ is going to bleed, it doesn't need to leave the body for that to be a problem.
Under the "Creation Myths and Magic Systems" arc, you mention that mythic artifacts could come from sources that are either divine, natural, or from ancient races. Do you envision these randomly generated ancient races as being something like the Hindu Devas or Norse Aenir, where they are magical epic versions of the believing race? Or more like a precursor style or superior ancestor, like Tolkien's Numenoreans or something similiar? Neither? Both?
Additionally, we have randomly generated art styles and musical instruments: will we eventually get cultural weapon, raiment and even tool variations along the same lines, with their own names? Like a civilization can currently have a bagpipe that can play two octaves and has a flat tone, will we have short swords with bell-guards, flared pommels, no-dachi blades, and a blood channel? Or a mace with flanges and a curved grip?
Do you know your Iron Ugzhuzhu from your Iron Broadsword? They are both the identical object (generated one has a different hilt) but if there isn't enough differentiation between them, you may as well restrict it to wholly distinct weapons because it will be a pain to sort.
Would it be possible to get monsters to yield and quit eating people without killing them?Heroes do venture into the wild and 'tame the giant panthers' and such. I imagine that involves a fair amount of teeth smashing sometimes.
I am only asking from a story telling point of view, as there where heroes that solved things in different ways.
Like the Maori god that smashed a Taniwha's (a dragon-type creature from New Zealand) teeth in to make it stop attacking humans.
Hey, s'up.
I saw in the July Future of the Fortress reply that you can't make a spherical world with square tiles. There's actually something we make in 3D art called a "cube sphere". Basically, imagine drawing the grid lines onto a cube, and then puffing out the cube into a spherical shape. Here's a picture of how to make one:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's still not perfect, but more even than the traditional long-lat layout, and the smaller the grid, the less it matters. [/color]
EDIT: Here is a YouTube video for people to see a cube sphere planet being made, https://youtu.be/dixS2nn9nK0 Hopefully that will answer some questions about how it works.
Would it be possible to get monsters to yield and quit eating people without killing them?Heroes do venture into the wild and 'tame the giant panthers' and such. I imagine that involves a fair amount of teeth smashing sometimes.
I am only asking from a story telling point of view, as there where heroes that solved things in different ways.
Like the Maori god that smashed a Taniwha's (a dragon-type creature from New Zealand) teeth in to make it stop attacking humans.
Do/have you ever run valgrind or any similar programs on the DF source code?This isn't current, so the "do" part is still a good question, but I remember he mentioned running some leak checker on it (maybe just on Windows) a couple days before 0.40.01. I don't remember if it was in the DF announcements board, an old FotF thread, or somewhere else, unfortunately.
When you make the myth and magic arc, do you have plans to allow us to add our own magical artifact effects, or will they be hard coded only?There's an editor planned. It's part of the mythgen arc, but I imagine it'll be a few releases before it's worked on. That'll give you control over artifact effects apparently (no hard information yet, just the list "Maps, sites, entities, historical figures, artifacts, myths, etc.")
As a follow up, do you plan to make artifact effects exclusive to selected item types, or completely random (for example, would I be able to make an effect (however generic it may be) to raise the strength of the wielder that appeared on hammers and belts, or would I then be able to get a door of strength)?
Also, unrelated, but I was also wondering if you had plans to add hardening with oxygen and corrosiveness to materials.
I apologize if these questions have been asked before, I don't come on these forums often.
Folks were doing this with the 32 > 64 bit bump to help him track down the last few bugs.Do/have you ever run valgrind or any similar programs on the DF source code?This isn't current, so the "do" part is still a good question, but I remember he mentioned running some leak checker on it (maybe just on Windows) a couple days before 0.40.01. I don't remember if it was in the DF announcements board, an old FotF thread, or somewhere else, unfortunately.
Like, we've got a damn mathematician here, various dfhack wizards, and not to tootle my own sad little horn but I enjoy reading dry mathetical papers and such myself... how did we miss this?I've heard of toroidal worlds, but they're less pleasant to visualize while maintaining aspect ratio for squares. Notice the shrinking during the first fold and stretching during the other.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah but on the scale of even a 17x17 it's a simple enough solution to just have the map coordinates link up so the moving into the map blocks in the north and west edges of the {0,0} travel tile causes the appropriate map blocks along the south and/or east edges of the {815,815} travel tile to load on screen.Like, we've got a damn mathematician here, various dfhack wizards, and not to tootle my own sad little horn but I enjoy reading dry mathematical papers and such myself... how did we miss this?I've heard of toroidal worlds, but they're less pleasant to visualize while maintaining aspect ratio for squares. Notice the shrinking during the first fold and stretching during the other.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm pretty sure you get a surface that passes through itself if you don't.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wait, WHAT? How did you manage to fast-travel in the arena?
Sorry, I'm sure this gets asked a lot, but,Note: I've de-Toadied the quote.
What's the story on getting non-dwarves in migrant waves or animal-people visitors? Seems like animal-people don't show up in player fortresses nearly as much as they do in generated fortresses.
I thought migrants couldn't be of other races, but I can easily be wrong about that, as all my migrants are void dwarves. I have no experience of adventure mode. My actual point, though, was that feral animal people can't join player fortresses the way they can join other sites.They won't suddenly join from the wilds, but then, that only happens 5 or 6 times a century at a couple of key sites so you wouldn't really expect it. However after becoming civ members (obviously a longer history is better here) they move around just like anyone else as mercenaries, 'scouts', entertainers (and in the next release monster slayers, prophets, peddlers and fake versions of all of the above) so they should turn up from time to time.
What exactly is required for a spouse converter to actually transform their prisoners? I've tried having [NIGHT_CREATURE_HUNTER] + [SPOUSE_CONVERTER] + [LARGE_PREDATOR] along with setting the orientation to 100% hetero and making sure the converter/converted have matching max age or no aging tokens.There's a bit of luck involved with regards whether night trolls transform civ members, even among the in-game generated ones. Reviewing those, they have [NIGHT_CREATURE_HUNTER], [BIOME]s, [LAIR]s, [LARGE_PREDATOR], [SUPERNATURAL], one caste with [SPOUSE_CONVERTER], and one caste with [CONVERTED_SPOUSE] (though more castes of each do work, I've done that myself). The same applies to my hag and beast scripts, and the night creatures in my mod, which do reproduce at least occasionally (except the one with DIFFICULTY:11, but that's by design).
Adding [LAIR:blah] tags and such seemed to help at times, as did the inclusion of relevant child tags/size~age tokens, but it wasn't until I tried setting [POPULATION_NUMBER:x:y] and [FREQUENCY:z] that I had my first successful abduction > transformation > reproduction results with a dual caste (converter+spouse) creature.
Afterwards through trial and error I had occasional success at getting a quadruple caste (converter male/female+spouse male/female) creature to properly abduct > transform > reproduce but I have no idea why I can break it just by things like taking the pairs of castes defined earlier and trying to assign traits to both with select_caste: and select_additonal_caste: lines to condense the raws some.
Does [BIOME:foo] have anything to do with converters? Does frequency actually matter or did I placebo myself?
they move around just like anyone else as mercenaries, 'scouts', entertainers (and in the next release monster slayers, prophets, peddlers and fake versions of all of the above) so they should turn up from time to time.
Almost certain that migrants are limited to dwarves right now. That's what Toady said originally. Although last time I said that, I was told I was wrong (but without any proof), so obviously requires more Science.
Are there any plans to add more planet-affecting events to worldgen/gameplay? Earthquakes, eruptions, asteroid/meteor strikes, that sort of thing?Search back a month or two in Toady's fotf replies. He mentions wanting to implement all those disasters. Even says in certain circumstances that these could be world ending catastrophes (presumably some kind of extreme sliders caused 'time limit' world). "Change" is the theme of the next few years, so hopefully you'll eventually be able to stop the impending doom somehow.
With stuff like secret identities and family members will our adventurer log eventually show more information about the people we know like job and family relations?Adventurers don't have family members. And, unless they become lords, they don't really have a concept of 'job'. So, I'd say, yeah, one day when adventurers have families and jobs their profiles will probably have that information. One day. Nothing to do with the upcoming secret identities though.
I meant the jobs of npcs the player knows.With stuff like secret identities and family members will our adventurer log eventually show more information about the people we know like job and family relations?Adventurers don't have family members. And, unless they become lords, they don't really have a concept of 'job'. So, I'd say, yeah, one day when adventurers have families and jobs their profiles will probably have that information. One day. Nothing to do with the upcoming secret identities though.
Personally not sure I'd ever want to see "jobs" imposed on adventurers though. You should be free to play according to your abilities (or hilariously in opposition to them) as you like.
I meant the jobs of npcs the player knows.With stuff like secret identities and family members will our adventurer log eventually show more information about the people we know like job and family relations?Adventurers don't have family members. And, unless they become lords, they don't really have a concept of 'job'. So, I'd say, yeah, one day when adventurers have families and jobs their profiles will probably have that information. One day. Nothing to do with the upcoming secret identities though.
Personally not sure I'd ever want to see "jobs" imposed on adventurers though. You should be free to play according to your abilities (or hilariously in opposition to them) as you like.
On the matter of threetoe's marriage:
A) congratulations!
B) will we see marriage ceremonies like the one in his post in-game, either in world gen or maybe even in fortress mode? At least those of nobles and royalty?
Do wedding parties still happen now? General parties were cut for the taverns release.On the matter of threetoe's marriage:
A) congratulations!
B) will we see marriage ceremonies like the one in his post in-game, either in world gen or maybe even in fortress mode? At least those of nobles and royalty?
Short answer: they already exist, to a point. Whenever a rare in-game wedding happens, dwarves throw a regular party at a meeting zone.
Not-so-short one: the ones you're probably imagining will be implemented in both modes, they exist in the dev notes, as marriage not only works as a means for adventurers to continue their legacy and build a lasting clan, but also as a tool for politics and diplomacy if we're talking about nobility. Ceremonies themselves might have priests overseeing them, but nothing has been said specifically about this. Nonetheless, if Toady wanted to do it most of the framework is in place: dances, temples and partygoing.
When it comes to scales, I've seem a few of those:I typed that wrong and then got caught up doing a full conversion of my firefox install to a post-XUL webextensions-only world (via nightly 56) so I haven't been around but I meant:
- 16 * 16 world tiles for features
- 7 * 7 world tiles for "nearby" biome creatures
- 3 * 3 world tiles for region info
- 16 * 16 region tiles per world tile (called embark tiles by Max)
- 3 * 3 tiles per region tile for various features, including "local features" (they don't cross these boundaries, currently). I've got no name for these.
- 48 * 48 embark tiles (in my terminology, dwarf scale in Max') per region tile.
An official terminology would certainly be helpful.
The first part of it is actually doable via building something up to the skybox and using a minecart to ride on it until you reach the upper parts and learn that the arena is sunk dozens of z below the surface of the top left chunk of a 1x1 world. Rumrusher discovered it and then we messed around exploring the scale of it later on.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wait, WHAT? How did you manage to fast-travel in the arena?
1. Considering that this will likely affect traveling adventurer parties and the like, are there any plans to correct the sleeping armies bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7458) in the near future?That one was resolved as a duplicate of http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6798. Also, questions such as "when will this bug be fixed?" are generally frowned upon here, since everyone has their own personal least-favorite bugs, and discussing all of them here would quickly become difficult for Toady. Toady does plan to fix bugs, of course, and bugs related to current long development periods are more likely to be fixed during those development periods (or after).
Rumrusher discovered it and then we messed around exploring the scale of it later on.
1. Considering that this will likely affect traveling adventurer parties and the like, are there any plans to correct the sleeping armies bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7458) in the near future?That one was resolved as a duplicate of http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6798. Also, questions such as "when will this bug be fixed?" are generally frowned upon here, since everyone has their own personal least-favorite bugs, and discussing all of them here would quickly become difficult for Toady. Toady does plan to fix bugs, of course, and bugs related to current long development periods are more likely to be fixed during those development periods (or after).
At one point during a Q&A you said "we don't do balance". Why?Why doesn't he do more work on balance? Or why did he choose to make people laugh during a presentation?
You expect Toady to release "full-featured" version 1.0 and then devote his time to balance? That's not going to happen. The only practical way to work on balance is to work on it as he goes.At one point during a Q&A you said "we don't do balance". Why?Why doesn't he do more work on balance? Or why did he choose to make people laugh during a presentation?
Balancing an unfinished game can only be done so far before it becomes a waste of time. For example why work through the prices of everything to ensure you can't make easy money when all that work will be scrapped when you introduce a real world economy.
The latter is generally a good idea. Relaxes people. In the end we are talking about computer games after all. Don't do it too much, especially when talking to a non-native English speaking audience who might not get your jokes. Or worse still, misinterpret them or take them completely literally.
What is there to balance? There's no formal win condition, and all sides in any conflict are going to be asymmetrical by the nature of world generation.
What is there to balance? There's no formal win condition, and all sides in any conflict are going to be asymmetrical by the nature of world generation.Well, as fantasy world simulator it should behave roughly like a fantasy world.
How many passes do you envision for the myth gen release? In the case of the cake being too big to eat in one go, which elements are low priority and less likely to make it?
Can you see your raiding party in real time on the mini-map?
No. It's a report when they get back.
Can you raid kobold sites? If so, will they send full-blown retaliatory ambushes like other civs?
You will be able to raid kobold sites.
Are koblolds still too crippled by their inability to speak articulate language to make clear demands as other civs would, i.e. are there interactions still limited to them trying to steal your stuff?
Do kobold bring mounts with them in ambushes/theft attempts? What kind of mounts do they have now?
They'll bring their pets. It's not clear yet if they'll mount them.
Can you raid cave civs in the unlikely event of them having artifacts?
Yes. Kobolds will steal artifacts so may well have them.
Can you raid necro towers to retrieve their books about the secrets of life and death (considered artifacts)? Can necros retaliate in response?
Can you raid sites for no reason whatsoever (i.e. without an artifact or a kidnapped baby to retrieve/rescue)?
Yes. General raid to cause mischief.
Can you raid non-civ specific sites like shrines, labyrinths, lairs, etc.?
If you raid a civ of a given race, does the whole race stop trading with you, i.e. is it possible to have both caravans and invaders from a single race at the same time?
Not if it works the way it does right now. A state of war means no traders. And nothing's been mentioned about changes to merchants.
How are the odds of a raid's being successful calculated? What parameters are taken into account?
Toady mentioned that more calculations are going on now than previously with equipment being taken into account.
Do named objects have artifact properties, e.g. will the naming of a weapon in worldgen increase its effectiveness in combat?
If enough demands from a goblin civ are being satisfied, can you enter a state of peace with them?
Generally you start off in a state of peace with goblins already. It's just that they'll pick any old excuse to go to war with you over values and ethics mainly.
:Note: De-Toadified and abbreviated quote.
Are koblolds still too crippled by their inability to speak articulate language to make clear demands as other civs would, i.e. are there interactions still limited to them trying to steal your stuff?
:
If you raid a civ of a given race, does the whole race stop trading with you, i.e. is it possible to have both caravans and invaders from a single race at the same time?
:
If enough demands from a goblin civ are being satisfied, can you enter a state of peace with them?
- Kobolds are still unable to speak, so there won't be any negotiations.
If you raid a civ of a given race, does the whole race stop trading with you, i.e. is it possible to have both caravans and invaders from a single race at the same time?
Not if it works the way it does right now. A state of war means no traders. And nothing's been mentioned about changes to merchants.
- Kobolds are still unable to speak, so there won't be any negotiations.
What about just a screen full of *FGHTHIS THIUNKY UEHNDJD*?
Can you see your raiding party in real time on the mini-map?
Can you raid kobold sites? If so, will they send full-blown retaliatory ambushes like other civs?
Do kobold bring mounts with them in ambushes/theft attempts? What kind of mounts do they have now?
Can you raid sites for no reason whatsoever (i.e. without an artifact or a kidnapped baby to retrieve/rescue)?
Can you raid necro towers to retrieve their books about the secrets of life and death (considered artifacts)? Can necros retaliate in response?
Can you raid non-civ specific sites like shrines, labyrinths, lairs, etc.?
I like the idea of a toroidal world for some sort of "plane of existence" out there. But like bumber mentioned, if you portrayed the surface of the torus with squares, you would have stretching and shrinking because the circumference of the outside is greater than the circumference of the inside.
But that got me thinking, what about an offset square grid?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Offset-square_grid.png)
This would effectively work like a hexagon grid, but allows you to use the same quadrilateral graphical tiles as before. If you mapped a torus or a long-lat sphere to a hash grid, you need bigger squares at the outer edge of the torus or at the equator of the sphere. Alternatively use more squares instead of bigger squares. So the total map is kind of a trapezoid instead of a big square. Although I guess you could still do that with a hash-grid, now that I think about it...
I'm sure someone will want to point out that an offset-square/hexagon grid can be clumsy to navigate with keyboard, and for all these people, I would point out that all such problems could be solved by simply using a mouse.
Does the new xml you're making available include the procedurally generated instrument and music descriptions?You can get at the instrument data using DFHack. It's located at df.global.world.raws.itemdefs.instruments. Other art form data can be found at
It's a shame there's really no way to explore these right now (barring starting up several adventurers, fortresses, etc) considering how much work seems to have put into them. Not much hope for anyone crazy enough to perfect the automatic dorvern music generator without more accessibility.
I'm sure there's lots of stuff dfhack can do. Would be nice not to be reliant on it though (besides which, it doesn't seem to be part of exportlegends yet, so it's still a fair amount of effort to get at the info). Yeah, I noticed kobolds make percussion instruments while tweaking their raws the other day.Does the new xml you're making available include the procedurally generated instrument and music descriptions?You can get at the instrument data using DFHack. It's located at df.global.world.raws.itemdefs.instruments. Other art form data can be found at
It's a shame there's really no way to explore these right now (barring starting up several adventurers, fortresses, etc) considering how much work seems to have put into them. Not much hope for anyone crazy enough to perfect the automatic dorvern music generator without more accessibility.
- df.global.world.poetic_forms
- df.global.world.musical_forms
- df.global.world.dance_forms
- df.global.world.scales; and
- df.global.world.rythms
Of course, you'd need to spend some effort piecing the info together.
Edit: As an aside while poking away at this, I found the Kobolds are musicians as well, apparently. The "jlubugujreelmus" is a percussion instrument of theirs in the world I poked at.
I'm sorry for being so out of the loop, but I've been having trouble searching up an answer to something I've been wondering...There is no reason to believe migrant size is being modified, and I suspect there are very different opinions as to what is the "right" one. DF already provide parameters to set the pop cap, and this can be used to limit the wave size (I used to set it to the current pop + 10 before I went for dead civs instead). The other way to restrict migration is to build up little wealth and trade little (as well as having lots of deaths in the fortress).
Does anyone know if the next release address the issue of immigrant wave size?
Main problem is I'm super picky about dwarves and labors, so I feel compelled to carefully examine and assign/reassign each migrant to the jobs I feel they ought to be doing. I don't want to have to kill immigrants or edit the raws every single season or otherwise directly influence the immigration issue... really, I want the more modest migration waves of 40d and 23a back. I did find a DFHack code for this, but I know I'm not the only one that's had issues with it killing my gameplay (so many search results, egads), so I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this is on the table or not?
Migrant mechanic overhaul is (according to current devnotes at least) planned for Scenarios (society, law and politics release). So probably a few years yet before that's thought about at all.
1. In some worlds will there be special ceremonies/rituals priests can/need to do to receive more power from their deity?Weren't demi-god parents and such asked about last month or perhaps the month before? Answer was 'yes, have thought about this'. It's not part of Artifacts (or any of your other questions), so you probably won't get much more than that.
2. In some worlds will mortals be able to enter romantic relationships with deities?
3. If yes to 2 could the offspring of these relationships possibly be demigods?
4. Will it be possible demigods receive any special treatment from the churches that worship their divine parent?
5. In some worlds will demigods receive powers that reflect their divine parent?
A couple more:
What does 'start trouble' and 'generic raids' mean? Do you just send dwarves randomly killing people and destroying buildings or is there a general purpose such as bringing back loot (in what form?), prisoners, animals, knowledge etc.
Is there an experience boost in combat/tracking skills when dwarves come back from raids? Is it random, fixed or target-dependent?
Can you send a long term resident mercenary to raid his own civ?
If squad members have pets, infants or trained animals following them around are they sent along? Are they taken into account for combat?
Can you send the entirety of your fort to raids if applicable? Do you lose the game if there are no citizens on the map?
Are there any implications off-map if some of the dwarves you send are vampires/werebeasts/necromancers (i.e. does the werebeast fight in transformed form if the raid happens during a full moon, does the necromancer raises dead off-map, does the vampire feed upon his fellow squad members etc.)?
Does the game keep track of whatever items/equipment the squad members were carrying with them and in the event of them getting killed at the site can an adventurer stumble upon said objects in the future?
How are you notified if a squad simply never comes back (no survivors) and there is no retaliation? What exactly triggers the death notification and all that implies (bad thoughts etc.)?
Does anyone know if the next release address the issue of immigrant wave size?
Main problem is I'm super picky about dwarves and labors, so I feel compelled to carefully examine and assign/reassign each migrant to the jobs I feel they ought to be doing. I don't want to have to kill immigrants or edit the raws every single season or otherwise directly influence the immigration issue... really, I want the more modest migration waves of 40d and 23a back. ...
From a simulation standpoint, if you have a prosperous and healthy fort in an accessible location, it would be difficult to explain why you wouldn't get dwarves (and possibly others) showing up to better their own situation.
Release is coming !20 nuggets at 1-2 days = 40 days unless anything goes wrong...? And you know that last nugget will take a couple of weeks by itself. :)
Well, AT LEAST this an estimation. A few months ago i hoped to have the release in september 2017 (while random dragon in is usual optimism said 2018). Now this is getting more precise, probably at the end of september...(if you think about unknown bugs).Even after the release there's 6 months of mini-updates and bug fixes to get through first before the mythgen update starts. Still, pretty excited here too.
The fact that i am enthousiasm is because i'm eager to see the NEXT version to be developped.
Suggestions about how to implement starting scenario mechanics are probably better placed in the suggestions sub forum, as suggestions in this thread are frowned upon. Starting scenario may be due in 5 years or so (if they appear directly after 3 myth&magic arcs [the actual number is not known]), so it's way out of the scope typically looked at in this thread.
Well, AT LEAST this an estimation. A few months ago i hoped to have the release in september 2017 (while random dragon in is usual optimism said 2018). Now this is getting more precise, probably at the end of september...(if you think about unknown bugs).
The fact that i am enthousiasm is because i'm eager to see the NEXT version to be developped.
Its nice to see the question i raised a long time ago about what happens in the case of animal theives being finally answered.Is every single object going to be tracked? Seems like it's only artifacts in the next release. Question is fine, just don't expect your anvil back any time soon. :)
> Is there a extremely minute chance that keas arriving from off the map could already have stolen artifacts or stolen objects that you could take off them?
Work through murdering the kea population and you might get your anvil back that was stolen in the summer of the first year. 8)
As artifacts grow in power over future releases, might we see animals that steal artifacts become elevated to greater status?Since neither of those objects ever corrupted a dumb animal, it's not a very useful comparison. Are there any actual examples from literature of artifacts causing animals to become intelligent and try to take over sapient civilizations?
For example: The assumption is that artifacts will eventually become like The One Ring or Excalibur, so would a kea that steals The One Ring become a Gollum-like creature, or would a kea that steals Excalibur become King of the Britons?
As artifacts grow in power over future releases, might we see animals that steal artifacts become elevated to greater status?Since neither of those objects ever corrupted a dumb animal, it's not a very useful comparison. Are there any actual examples from literature of artifacts causing animals to become intelligent and try to take over sapient civilizations?
For example: The assumption is that artifacts will eventually become like The One Ring or Excalibur, so would a kea that steals The One Ring become a Gollum-like creature, or would a kea that steals Excalibur become King of the Britons?
Well if its a primordial force object (going off the mythgen talks), it'd be interesting for a stolen magical/natural artifact to have some kind of effect on them such as turning them into a kea-man or growing tenfold & sprouting tentacles under the influence of negative chaos energy if they've managed to swipe such a powerful evil artifact.Ah yes, I can well imagine the origin of animal-men in mythgen being the result of a bunch of rhesus macaques messing with the harp of fate. That's kind of artifact related. While both Dr Moreau and the threetoe story wizard followed the general trope of an evil sapient corrupting or enslaving innocent beasts, which is more the way I imagine DF stories to end up (who knows though!).As artifacts grow in power over future releases, might we see animals that steal artifacts become elevated to greater status?Since neither of those objects ever corrupted a dumb animal, it's not a very useful comparison. Are there any actual examples from literature of artifacts causing animals to become intelligent and try to take over sapient civilizations?
For example: The assumption is that artifacts will eventually become like The One Ring or Excalibur, so would a kea that steals The One Ring become a Gollum-like creature, or would a kea that steals Excalibur become King of the Britons?
In literature probably not unless you sort of reference the island of doctor moreau by H.G wells as being a misdirected attempt to conquer the world with animalmen, also one of threetoes ASCII stories touches upon a evil wizard commanding apemen.
I doubt we'll be seeing Throgg the Trogg or Troll King (if you get the warhammer reference) in our cavern embark as per botched magical accident giving them full intelligence & malevolence anytime soon.
Since neither of those objects ever corrupted a dumb animal, it's not a very useful comparison. Are there any actual examples from literature of artifacts causing animals to become intelligent and try to take over sapient civilizations?
Depends on how strict the terms of ownership would be, would make a amusing & dwarf-eccentric bug report on Mantis to have a civil-war caused by a loyalty cascade over whether a kea that has stolen a heirloom is the rightful heir.
> Do/will artifacts carry a [DIFFICULTY] rating to determine how much of a priority they are in a quest compared to say killing some low level beasts or are they all on the 'same level' of quest requests
Not trying to dismiss the question, but I struggle to understand the interest for non-flat worlds. If you think about it from a "realistic" perspective, DF worlds are not big enough to form spheres (or at least not big enough to form spheres and also have earth-like gravity). Although, the linked article asks the question, "Can torroidal worlds exist", I will spoil it by saying that they can't form naturally -- accretion disks have a maximum particle size. Above that particle size, the particles come together with their own gravity and form moons -- that eventually clear the disk (see the rings of Saturn for a great example). And even if you built a torroidal world, the size you would require in order for it to have earth-like gravity would be much greater than DF allows (though, I have to check the density of slade to be sure...)
To me flat maps make the most sense -- you are playing on a section of a spheroidal world. The map is a projection onto a 2 dimensional square. It sucks that you can't go beyond the edge of the map but that's a technical limitation of the game. Not only does it make the most sense, but it is also exactly what you find with most fantasy literature (probably because everyone is copying Tolkien, but still...). I remember thinking that even Naruto has this square map and no mention is ever made about what happens when you wander off the map (despite being able to go to the moon...).
What might be cool is to have some explanation why you can't get through these square sections -- and/or possibly making the sections non-square. For example, in a site, your other-worldly influence can only extend so far and when dwarfs are outside of the site, they are no longer influenced by/visible to you. Similarly, Armok's view only extends to a section of a planet and so the god seals it off so as to avoid unwanted interference. But I am rapidly descending into suggestion territory.
When boats are added, will there be nomadic groups/bandits/travelling merchants that live on and travel up and down rivers?Text needs to be lime-green if you want Toady to answer your question.
Will there be an option to progress time in a generated world in the next version? Such as a "progress time by x" option in the fortress location selector menuNo. That's never been mentioned as being part of the next release.
No. It's been asked and answered before. Off site expeditions are reported on only after they have returned/the information of their failure has returned.
:
Also will you be able to control/see dwarves that are off-site on a raid?
Will World-gen artifacts be able to be of any weapon/armor type, like the fortress artifacts? Or do they only make artifacts of items from their own civ?
While I'm thinking of it, what are the types of artifacts you can get?
And, aside from the off-site raiding, what will be added in the next version?
Speaking of sites, will there ever be an option for modding custom sites into the games?
Check out the development pages, the devblog, and the past 12 months of fotf replies.
And, aside from the off-site raiding, what will be added in the next version?
Speaking of sites, will there ever be an option for modding custom sites into the games?
Sorry for making this so long
have you seen the bug report/encountered the zombie-merchant bug in a town?
Any new tags? I have a mod, and I just wanna be sure what the new tags are so that I may update the mod for the upcoming version!
Do you have any ideas for other HFS level spoilers that you aren't revealing? I'm curious about whether or not I will be surprised by anything huge that isn't in an update log.
In-game languages: is the new framework intended for the next couple releases? What are the current plans language-wise? Specifically, do you have any of the following in mind?
- A description of the phonologies and how they map to the orthographies
- Procedurally-generated historical sound changes
- Creature-to-creature spread of sound changes (resulting in dialects, etc.)
- Inter-language influences/borrowing
- Morphology
Will magical explosions be able to destroy natural tiles?
1. Will some civilizations prohibit the use of magic?
2. Could some possible corruptions from magic include growing extra limbs such as a tentacle or a tail?
3. Could magic users hide their corruptions under heavy amounts of clothing?
Will dwarf civs now attack other sites they find annoying in initial worldgen, or is provoking them enough to retaliate only something the player is able to achieve?
Once they're at war will both sides continue to send armies to attack each other's sites, or will your civ end up turtling in the way dwarves do right now?
What season will dwarves attack in?
Any season? Just Autumn? Any chance to see a seperation of 'friendly merchant visit' and 'gonna kill ya all' active seasons?
Toady, in your most recent update you mentioned sending your expedition leader to raid a mountainhome, which the dwarf did not survive. The civ responded with a small siege of ten troops. Was this small force sent because you sent such a tiny force to attack? If one sends larger forces to raid sites, will the civ send larger retaliation forces?
What are the criteria for a civ to be declared dead on embark?
The reason for the question is that most civs that should be dead refuse to acknowledge it and maintain they're merely struggling (with the attendant caravans, migrant waves, monarch, etc), and I'm trying to hack them into realizing they're in fact dead, as I realize fixing the bug is likely to be a low priority correction. It can be noted that the actual criteria used are harder than the ones that exclude "dead" civs from showing up on the civ selection screen: hacking the selection to allow all of the dwarven ones to be used result in roughly the same ration between "struggling" and actually dead ones on embark (somewhere between 1:3 and 1:20) as in the vanilla case where you only have a single dwarven civ and it ought to be dead. I've had some minor success hacking the entity_populations entry (DFHack term) to set the population to zero before finalizing the world, but that works only in a minority of the cases. I realize you may be reluctant to answer the question as it risks opening the floodgate of hacking/modding info requests.
[/quote]Quote from: AceSVI saw in the July Future of the Fortress reply that you can't make a spherical world with square tiles. There's actually something we make in 3D art called a "cube sphere". Basically, imagine drawing the grid lines onto a cube, and then puffing out the cube into a spherical shape.[/quote author=exdeath]
You told something about cylinder worlds, will the game support toroidal planet? Stuff like this thing presented here http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2014/02/torusearth.html ?
Under the "Creation Myths and Magic Systems" arc, you mention that mythic artifacts could come from sources that are either divine, natural, or from ancient races. Do you envision these randomly generated ancient races as being something like the Hindu Devas or Norse Aenir, where they are magical epic versions of the believing race? Or more like a precursor style or superior ancestor, like Tolkien's Numenoreans or something similiar? Neither? Both?
Additionally, we have randomly generated art styles and musical instruments: will we eventually get cultural weapon, raiment and even tool variations along the same lines, with their own names? Like a civilization can currently have a bagpipe that can play two octaves and has a flat tone, will we have short swords with bell-guards, flared pommels, no-dachi blades, and a blood channel? Or a mace with flanges and a curved grip?
To what extent, mechanically speaking, would you currently think of cutting off involvement of topic development from the technological capabilities of civilizations in worldgen? For instance, topics which allow civilizations to develop siege weapons, military tactics, weaponry in general, civics (site types and similar) etc.
Do you think general proclivity a race has to particular topics (weighted and/or circumstantially influenced preference), or topical whitelists/blacklists are the optimal way of determining what scholars in a civilization will introduce to them, for Dwarf Fortress?
Do/have you ever run valgrind or any similar programs on the DF source code?
Would it be possible to get monsters to yield and quit eating people without killing them?
How you imagine motional strength of dwarves? Similar to real-life humans or tougher? I ask as it dramatically changes from version to version in game (34.05 dwarves are emotionally resistant to everything, including lack of alcohol).
Are there any changes to artifact generation? Leather spikes, coal grates etc. are somewhat immersion breaking.
do you plan to make artifact effects exclusive to selected item types, or completely random (for example, would I be able to make an effect (however generic it may be) to raise the strength of the wielder that appeared on hammers and belts, or would I then be able to get a door of strength)?
Also, unrelated, but I was also wondering if you had plans to add hardening with oxygen and corrosiveness to materials.
Quote from: Max^TMmyself I usually think of the 48x48 tile chunks as "embark tiles" due to their use on the embark screen/fort dimensions, and the 16x16 embark tile chunks as "world tiles" accordingly. Do you have a more official--if you will--terminology that you use, and are there different scales you use/think of the game world in terms of besides those?
Travel mode moves you basically on the embark tile scale and using dfhack in or near a site it's easy to see that altering the coordinates of your traveling army by x+1 moves you over 1 "site travel" step, but it takes an x/y change of 3 or more to move your spot on the wilderness travel map, so you could call 1 embark tile 3 travel tiles or 16 dwarf scale tiles I guess?Quote from: PatrikLundell- 16 * 16 world tiles for features
- 7 * 7 world tiles for "nearby" biome creatures
- 3 * 3 world tiles for region info
- 16 * 16 region tiles per world tile (called embark tiles by Max)
- 3 * 3 tiles per region tile for various features, including "local features" (they don't cross these boundaries, currently). I've got no name for these.
- 48 * 48 embark tiles (in my terminology, dwarf scale in Max') per region tile.Quote from: Max^TMSo for a 17x17 pocket world:
[w17]x[w17] in world tiles --world map export scale
[r272]x[r272] in region tiles --wilderness travel scale
[e816]x[e816] in embark tiles --near-site travel export
[t39168]x[t39168] in local tiles --on foot scale
What's the story on getting non-dwarves in migrant waves or animal-people visitors? Seems like animal-people don't show up in player fortresses nearly as much as they do in generated fortresses.
Is the situation on how frequently we see animalpeople citizens likely to change by the hill dwarf arc? pushing for a community of tiger men citizens created from retired adventurers/migrants into a self contained extranous community so that we can get semi-occasional migrants from them.
With stuff like secret identities and family members will our adventurer log eventually show more information about the npcs we know like job and family relations?
1. Are there plans for entity tokens that would allow you to alter the extent to which entities interact with artifacts? Like, could we make it so they would only ask politely for artifacts, and never fight over them, or vice versa?
2. Will Kobold sites remain as they are now, just spawning in a single cave (although with an upgraded layout) or have the ability to found sites like the other civs?
3. Will Necromancers be able to hunt down artifacts and if so, how?
is there anything in game that alters how quickly someone crosses the map in travel mode? It seems like it assumes a default rate for all armies on the map, is it something fixed like 1 travel step = x time units on the day/night display? It feels strange that a unit so fat or overencumbered they move at 0.099 can travel at the same rate as a modded hyperspeed unit which moves at 10.000 does.
With the introduction of diplomacy and tracking those diplomatic actions of handing over artifacts to pay off some goblins etc. does offering gifts via the trading screen have any effect to what they think of you?
How many passes do you envision for the myth gen release? In the case of the cake being too big to eat in one go, which elements are low priority and less likely to make it?
If you raid kobold civs, will they send full-blown retaliatory ambushes like other civs?
Can you raid cave civs (i.e. animal men) in the unlikely event of them having artifacts?
Can you raid necro towers to retrieve their books about the secrets of life and death (considered artifacts)? Can necros retaliate in response?
Can you raid non-civ specific sites like shrines, labyrinths, lairs, etc.?
If you raid a civ of a given race, does the whole race stop trading with you, i.e. is it possible to have both caravans and invaders from a single race at the same time?
Do named objects have artifact properties, e.g. will the naming of a weapon in worldgen increase its effectiveness in combat?
If enough demands from a goblin civ are being satisfied, can you enter a state of peace with them?
What does 'start trouble' and 'generic raids' mean? Do you just send dwarves randomly killing people and destroying buildings or is there a general purpose such as bringing back loot (in what form?), prisoners, animals, knowledge etc.
Is there an experience boost in combat/tracking skills when dwarves come back from raids? Is it random, fixed or target-dependent?
Can you send a long term resident mercenary to raid his own civ?
Are there any implications off-map if some of the dwarves you send are vampires/werebeasts/necromancers (i.e. does the werebeast fight in transformed form if the raid happens during a full moon, does the necromancer raises dead off-map, does the vampire feed upon his fellow squad members etc.)?
Does a raid squad need food and drink or do they just feed on whatever they find in the countryside?
Does the new xml you're making available include the procedurally generated instrument and music descriptions?
In some worlds will there be special ceremonies/rituals priests can/need to do to receive more power from their deity?
Quote from: Fleeting FramesYou mentioned that animal thieves who steal artifacts will become historical figures in last devlog. At the moment, however, I believe beast attacks stop post-worldgen outside the player fortress. Will those named keas return only to the fort (wielding the artifact?) or will they go thieve from other civilizations post-worldgen, once thus recognized?Quote from: MinerMan60101Since animals that steal artifacts become historical figures, can you make the option in one of the .txt files for all animals that steal things from your fort, regardless of whether they steal an artifact, to become historical figures?Quote from: FantasticDorfIs there a extremely minute chance that keas arriving from off the map could already have stolen artifacts or stolen objects that you could take off them?Quote from: AceSVAs artifacts grow in power over future releases, might we see animals that steal artifacts become elevated to greater status?
For example: The assumption is that artifacts will eventually become like The One Ring or Excalibur, so would a kea that steals The One Ring become a Gollum-like creature, or would a kea that steals Excalibur become King of the Britons?
Come the mythgen release, do you think we'll get any details on what lies beyond the borders of our maps? For example, if some worlds are meant to be exactly what we see, perhaps floating on the back of a turtle? While others are meant to be part of something bigger?
When artifacts are given magical effects, will we see them affect a creature's intelligence and personality? For example an animal with the Can_Speak token or a necromancer who suddenly has the urge to raise a family as their main goal?
When boats are added, will there be nomadic groups/bandits/travelling merchants that live on and travel up and down rivers?
Will World-gen artifacts be able to be of any weapon/armor type, like the fortress artifacts? Or do they only make artifacts of items from their own civ?
Quote from: LorrMasterWhen artifacts are given magical effects, will we see them affect a creature's intelligence and personality? For example an animal with the Can_Speak token or a necromancer who suddenly has the urge to raise a family as their main goal?
Hard to say what's going in on the first pass. Critters will be more mutable as more effects go in, and we'd like to have personality effects as well as the ability to endow intelligence or other basic property changes. The former is especially likely since it is already possible with syndromes (as with alcohol).
I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what the turtling thing is. I don't see anything at first glance that causes dwarves to behave differently. Perhaps low population capitals?In all the worlds I've ever created and read through the histories of, I've never once seen Dwarves attack anyone, ever. Even after centuries at war, they seem to defend continuously. Is that not intended behavior?
Quote from: KittyTacWill magical explosions be able to destroy natural tiles?
Hard to say what sort of effects we'll get and where -- oddly, blowing apart a whole region of the map is somewhat easier to handle than the digging-related implications of locally exploding tiles (regarding sieges, fortress integrity, etc.). As we've said before, we lean toward digging being allowed, but local map modifications of that kind should be toggleable (on a world-gen basis, anyway).
I always forget which tags are supported by ADD_TAG. Hard to imagine adding CAN_LEARN would actually work as intended.
Thanks to Shonai_Dweller, Nibblewerfer, FantasticDorf, PatrikLundell, golemgunk, Bumber, Valtam, Egan_BW, Random_Dragon, Japa, therahedwig, lethosor, Knight Otu, Miuramir, and anybody I missed for helping to answer questions this month. Keep in mind that sometimes multi-part questions are partially cut when some of the questions are answered and not others, so please go back and check around your post if something is missing!
Quote from: KittyTacWill magical explosions be able to destroy natural tiles?
Hard to say what sort of effects we'll get and where -- oddly, blowing apart a whole region of the map is somewhat easier to handle than the digging-related implications of locally exploding tiles (regarding sieges, fortress integrity, etc.). As we've said before, we lean toward digging being allowed, but local map modifications of that kind should be toggleable (on a world-gen basis, anyway).
Interesting. So would a region-wide explosion instakill the player if he/she was caught in it, instead of just propelling them away, THEN killing him, because digging on-screen is prohibited in the latter case?
Quote from: FantasticDorfIs the situation on how frequently we see animalpeople citizens likely to change by the hill dwarf arc? pushing for a community of tiger men citizens created from retired adventurers/migrants into a self contained extranous community so that we can get semi-occasional migrants from them.
With all the migration changes in that release, it's quite possible. I don't yet have a good feel for how annoying it is to have a significantly non-dwarven fortress in terms of clothing etc.
QuoteWhat's the story on getting non-dwarves in migrant waves or animal-people visitors? Seems like animal-people don't show up in player fortresses nearly as much as they do in generated fortresses.
Since we didn't know how non-dwarf citizens would turn out (in terms of clothing production etc.), they are disallowed as general migrants. I'm still not sure where we're at there.
Its moreso annoying if you're making clothing for other creatures than yourselves (A troll for instance with modded raws) which does not have the intelligence to use the workshop so uses the second best fit of polar bear man armor.
I suppose this problem would also extend onto animal armor hence we might not be seeing that for a long while on the development road until the system is ironed out.
snip
For animal armor, since war animals are specifically named, the best thing might be to just queue up armor for each war animal specifically, and once their armor is made, the animal trainer equips them with it. And technically, if you've going for realism, most medieval armor was tailor made for the individual, animal or human. The game could even calculate how well someone else's armor fits with the broadness/height/width numbers.
Why don't you get an AC unit for your place? It is too expensive in US? Your energy bill would raise too much? Every year you seems to have the same issues with heat.
I'm not from US, but here in my country while it isn't cheap it is quite affordable. (and very necessary as it is in average way hotter than US)
The problem with USA is that in a lot of it, maybe a few months of the year will be hot as hell, and then the rest of it you'll be buried in snow.
As someone over in Texas, I can attest that sometimes even if you have a good AC, a hard enough heatwave will still make the house uncomfortable all day long even with it running full blast.
I always forget which tags are supported by ADD_TAG. Hard to imagine adding CAN_LEARN would actually work as intended.
As someone over in Texas, I can attest that sometimes even if you have a good AC, a hard enough heatwave will still make the house uncomfortable all day long even with it running full blast.
I can confirm that Random_Dragon is not lying. It doesn't help that the air is normally pretty dry as well, so it just sucks the moisture out of everything like a sponge.
The problem with USA is that in a lot of it, maybe a few months of the year will be hot as hell, and then the rest of it you'll be buried in snow.
These heat waves sometimes lasts most of the summer, don't they? If anything, using it for just some months in the year would be an advantage as you wouldn't have high energy bills most of the time, and you wouldn't lose productivity for those days where you can't stand to stay inside.
I always forget which tags are supported by ADD_TAG. Hard to imagine adding CAN_LEARN would actually work as intended.
Speaking of which, is there a reason only some tags are supported by syndrome CE add/remove tags? Is there any future plans to expand the scope of supported tags? Asking because full tag support (ala creature variations) would certainly be a holy grail for modders.
As someone over in Texas, I can attest that sometimes even if you have a good AC, a hard enough heatwave will still make the house uncomfortable all day long even with it running full blast.
I can confirm that Random_Dragon is not lying. It doesn't help that the air is normally pretty dry as well, so it just sucks the moisture out of everything like a sponge.
Washington state is generally at around 110% humidity, so when it gets hot, the usual method of humans to cool off by sweat and evaporation is ineffective.
You can always just transform the creature into a creature variation with the tags you want and the exact same name. A bit of a hackjob, but should work.
Not if you get a portable unit that vents out a window.The problem with USA is that in a lot of it, maybe a few months of the year will be hot as hell, and then the rest of it you'll be buried in snow.
These heat waves sometimes lasts most of the summer, don't they? If anything, using it for just some months in the year would be an advantage as you wouldn't have high energy bills most of the time, and you wouldn't lose productivity for those days where you can't stand to stay inside.
But then you basically have a hole in your house during the winter months.
are there any plans to add knife user or misc object user to adventure mode so that you can put points into these skills before starting?Uh... Both of those skills are already in adv mode, kingofthehour.
In addition to DIFFICULTY ratings, there may ought to be a RELEVANCE rating. This villager must have more local concerns than "glorifying us all".How would a relevance tag address this? Dwarf fortress generates the complete history of the world. What's relevant to a villager in one world right now will be different in another world. Or even in the same world one week later. But, yeah, should be in the suggestions forum.
Is this distance fanciful beast who may or may not be accessible from here threatening your means of survival? Your children? How about your quality of life in general? If no beast is doing that, then they aren't your "troubles".
I think they mean more that individuals will consider the relevance of events based on how related to their personal wellbeing it is, with "wellbeing of the realm" only slightly tied into this for your peasantry and local craftsmen/tradesmen.In addition to DIFFICULTY ratings, there may ought to be a RELEVANCE rating. This villager must have more local concerns than "glorifying us all".How would a relevance tag address this? Dwarf fortress generates the complete history of the world. What's relevant to a villager in one world right now will be different in another world. Or even in the same world one week later. But, yeah, should be in the suggestions forum.
Is this distance fanciful beast who may or may not be accessible from here threatening your means of survival? Your children? How about your quality of life in general? If no beast is doing that, then they aren't your "troubles".
@Max: I assume you know of df.global.world.entity_populations and have looked at it in your investigation? I would have expected the exported counts to include the histfigs. Have you tried adding them (found in df.global.world.history.figures) to see if it matches up?Yup, the values in entity_populations come up short as it seems to only include the members of the initial race, so non-dorfs in their civs don't show up. Adding the number of histfigs doesn't explain it either sadly.
Histfigs: 75681
Dead: 58598
Difference: 17263
Pop Cap: 20000
Race Export LuaCount Difference
Dwarf: 62073 58745 3328
Human: 142140 138876 3264
Elf: 53344 51577 1767
Goblin: 408871 400652 8219
Total: 666428 649850 16578
1. What sort of divine laws will we see in the first pass of the myth and magic update if any?
2. If someone broke a divine law would the deity in question in fantasy worlds be able to curse them for breaking it?
What, if anything, will be changed/new in Legends mode for this the artifact release?
Export function will include lots more data apparently. Including instruments and musical forms for sure, but not sure what else yet.What, if anything, will be changed/new in Legends mode for this the artifact release?
Most likely improved artifacts tab. Not only books showing up.
At the time that you read this, has the new version been released yet? If so, congratulations! If not, I don't mind. It takes time to do this kind of amazing work.
A couple of weeks before it's released there's usually an announcement that it's complete, locked down and they're into stress testing before release.At the time that you read this, has the new version been released yet? If so, congratulations! If not, I don't mind. It takes time to do this kind of amazing work.
Chances are it'll be read before then, since september is the earliest projected date.
Linking the c++ reference to the "find" function is...how to say :
you know Toady is programming for...a few (or more) years, don't you ?
Hey toady, one of my most memorable dwarf fortress adventure mode moments is when in version 31 I was looking at the world map and saw a place called "the hill of worms" and when I went there (because of course I did) the ground was actually made of wormy tendrils, and not much else, no creatures, no trees, no undead, just worms. I know now (since I've been playing DF so long) this happened purely randomly. My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.
I'm aware there's a processing cost (specifically O(n^2) in this situation if you loop through the list of regions then their names) but it doesn't seem (as a roguelike developer myself) like it would be all that hard to add, and I think it would definitely add flavor.Also this sort of thing is a common trope in fantasy .
(Assuming you are using c++ strings rather then the original c style character arrays to represent strings you could use this built in method http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/find/)
Hey toady, one of my most memorable dwarf fortress adventure mode moments is when in version 31 I was looking at the world map and saw a place called "the hill of worms" and when I went there (because of course I did) the ground was actually made of wormy tendrils, and not much else, no creatures, no trees, no undead, just worms. I know now (since I've been playing DF so long) this happened purely randomly. My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.If you're going to improve the naming system, would it not make more sense to have civilizations name the areas they discover after what's there rather than the other way around? Wormy Field called so because (when humans first moved in) it was full of worms. In addition to naming stuff after battles, leaders, kobold massacres and so on. (Suggestions forum).
I'm aware there's a processing cost (specifically O(n^2) in this situation if you loop through the list of regions then their names) but it doesn't seem (as a roguelike developer myself) like it would be all that hard to add, and I think it would definitely add flavor.Also this sort of thing is a common trope in fantasy .
(Assuming you are using c++ strings rather then the original c style character arrays to represent strings you could use this built in method http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/find/)
Hey toady, one of my most memorable dwarf fortress adventure mode moments is when in version 31 I was looking at the world map and saw a place called "the hill of worms" and when I went there (because of course I did) the ground was actually made of wormy tendrils, and not much else, no creatures, no trees, no undead, just worms. I know now (since I've been playing DF so long) this happened purely randomly. My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.If you're going to improve the naming system, would it not make more sense to have civilizations name the areas they discover after what's there rather than the other way around? Wormy Field called so because (when humans first moved in) it was full of worms. In addition to naming stuff after battles, leaders, kobold massacres and so on. (Suggestions forum).
I'm aware there's a processing cost (specifically O(n^2) in this situation if you loop through the list of regions then their names) but it doesn't seem (as a roguelike developer myself) like it would be all that hard to add, and I think it would definitely add flavor.Also this sort of thing is a common trope in fantasy .
(Assuming you are using c++ strings rather then the original c style character arrays to represent strings you could use this built in method http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/find/)
Not right now, it's just random (modified by biome type, evilness, savagery, etc). But for a world simulation it'd be more realistic than randomly adding unicorns in a bione they don't belong just because the rng came up with a meaningless name.Hey toady, one of my most memorable dwarf fortress adventure mode moments is when in version 31 I was looking at the world map and saw a place called "the hill of worms" and when I went there (because of course I did) the ground was actually made of wormy tendrils, and not much else, no creatures, no trees, no undead, just worms. I know now (since I've been playing DF so long) this happened purely randomly. My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.If you're going to improve the naming system, would it not make more sense to have civilizations name the areas they discover after what's there rather than the other way around? Wormy Field called so because (when humans first moved in) it was full of worms. In addition to naming stuff after battles, leaders, kobold massacres and so on. (Suggestions forum).
I'm aware there's a processing cost (specifically O(n^2) in this situation if you loop through the list of regions then their names) but it doesn't seem (as a roguelike developer myself) like it would be all that hard to add, and I think it would definitely add flavor.Also this sort of thing is a common trope in fantasy .
(Assuming you are using c++ strings rather then the original c style character arrays to represent strings you could use this built in method http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/find/)
Does it name them as civs discover them already? I was just wondering if he plans something akin to what I stated.seems natural so I figured he thought of it at some point.
Just curious if he's thought about it.Honestly don't have the time, nor the interest in writing up a whole "suggestion" thread on it this week. (Or having to maintain that) I Will at some point I guess though. (At work rn) mainly just curious if he's thought of something similar.Not right now, it's just random (modified by biome type, evilness, savagery, etc). But for a world simulation it'd be more realistic than randomly adding unicorns in a bione they don't belong just because the rng came up with a meaninglesso name.Hey toady, one of my most memorable dwarf fortress adventure mode moments is when in version 31 I was looking at the world map and saw a place called "the hill of worms" and when I went there (because of course I did) the ground was actually made of wormy tendrils, and not much else, no creatures, no trees, no undead, just worms. I know now (since I've been playing DF so long) this happened purely randomly. My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.If you're going to improve the naming system, would it not make more sense to have civilizations name the areas they discover after what's there rather than the other way around? Wormy Field called so because (when humans first moved in) it was full of worms. In addition to naming stuff after battles, leaders, kobold massacres and so on. (Suggestions forum).
I'm aware there's a processing cost (specifically O(n^2) in this situation if you loop through the list of regions then their names) but it doesn't seem (as a roguelike developer myself) like it would be all that hard to add, and I think it would definitely add flavor.Also this sort of thing is a common trope in fantasy .
(Assuming you are using c++ strings rather then the original c style character arrays to represent strings you could use this built in method http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/find/)
Does it name them as civs discover them already? I was just wondering if he plans something akin to what I stated.seems natural so I figured he thought of it at some point.
But like I said, should be taken to the suggestions forum (probably already there somewhere).
Farewell to the outpost liaison data dump. You shan't be missed.Funny thing, I have been relistening through the DF talk episodes and I saw in one of the older episodes "you should be able to see a world map that gets updated as people come through your fort" (or something like that) awesome to see toady finally implementing that!
Fantastic news.
Once the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?
Once the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?Mythgen demo (starts at about 9:15)
Actually what i meant was once you genned your world you could view the mythology that it generated, i just think it would be cool to look at all the random magic and suchOnce the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?Mythgen demo (starts at about 9:15)
https://youtu.be/v8zwPdPvN10
Hopefully all that info will be readily available in Legends. Exportable too.Actually what i meant was once you genned your world you could view the mythology that it generated, i just think it would be cool to look at all the random magic and suchOnce the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?Mythgen demo (starts at about 9:15)
https://youtu.be/v8zwPdPvN10
Yeah, although i wonder if the races could be genned in random materials?Hopefully all that info will be readily available in Legends. Exportable too.Actually what i meant was once you genned your world you could view the mythology that it generated, i just think it would be cool to look at all the random magic and suchOnce the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?Mythgen demo (starts at about 9:15)
https://youtu.be/v8zwPdPvN10
I imagine on Fantasy level 4 you're going to want to read carefully about the creatures you're going to try playing with and the weird magic they're capable of before you embark.
Yeah, although i wonder if the races could be genned in random materials?Hopefully all that info will be readily available in Legends. Exportable too.Actually what i meant was once you genned your world you could view the mythology that it generated, i just think it would be cool to look at all the random magic and suchOnce the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?Mythgen demo (starts at about 9:15)
https://youtu.be/v8zwPdPvN10
I imagine on Fantasy level 4 you're going to want to read carefully about the creatures you're going to try playing with and the weird magic they're capable of before you embark.
I doubt races will be non organic, as that will mess things up even more than they're already going to be. What would a fire based race use for sustenance, and how does farming/livestock come into play? This sounds like enhancements that can be added after 1.0...
As for extra dimensional creatures (Titans/FBs/Clowns currently) I believe divine materials, slade, and candy are already off the list.
Goblins raise trolls and shear them for their wool to make clothes.I doubt races will be non organic, as that will mess things up even more than they're already going to be. What would a fire based race use for sustenance, and how does farming/livestock come into play? This sounds like enhancements that can be added after 1.0...
As for extra dimensional creatures (Titans/FBs/Clowns currently) I believe divine materials, slade, and candy are already off the list.
They... wouldn't use anything, like goblins do now.
Goblins raise trolls and shear them for their wool to make clothes.I doubt races will be non organic, as that will mess things up even more than they're already going to be. What would a fire based race use for sustenance, and how does farming/livestock come into play? This sounds like enhancements that can be added after 1.0...
As for extra dimensional creatures (Titans/FBs/Clowns currently) I believe divine materials, slade, and candy are already off the list.
They... wouldn't use anything, like goblins do now.
Would be a bit of a waste if random creature civs all ended up as titan-like critters. No need for food, farming, or anything. Utterly boring worldsim.
I like the part in the PC Gamer interview where Toady muses on how one simple innate ability (teleportation) should end up effecting almost everything we know about society. But slade hulks as actual civs would be a step too far, I think (but modders, go crazy, sure).
It's a cool idea, of course, but as PatrikLundell said, post ver 1.0. Otherwise Toady's going to have to put development on hold and spend years developing sites for every single possible variant of civ. What kind of sites do vomit creatures build? What about amphibious vomit creatures, flying vomit creatures, underground vomit creatures, etc, etc?Goblins raise trolls and shear them for their wool to make clothes.I doubt races will be non organic, as that will mess things up even more than they're already going to be. What would a fire based race use for sustenance, and how does farming/livestock come into play? This sounds like enhancements that can be added after 1.0...
As for extra dimensional creatures (Titans/FBs/Clowns currently) I believe divine materials, slade, and candy are already off the list.
They... wouldn't use anything, like goblins do now.
Would be a bit of a waste if random creature civs all ended up as titan-like critters. No need for food, farming, or anything. Utterly boring worldsim.
I like the part in the PC Gamer interview where Toady muses on how one simple innate ability (teleportation) should end up effecting almost everything we know about society. But slade hulks as actual civs would be a step too far, I think (but modders, go crazy, sure).
I thought you meant food. A fire civ would, for example, coat their weapons with fire to make them ignite people. Sorta like the draconians in my mod, but their armor ignites non-draconians trying to wear it, by the virtue of being dragonfire-hot.
Good news is, the editor which is planned (probably not in the first mythgen release, but sometime "soon") should enable you to design your own sites. Those firey vomit temples may be nearer than you expect! Maybe.
Who needs magma when you can swamp the land in flammable vomit? And then ride your boats out over it flanked by muck elementals and...Good news is, the editor which is planned (probably not in the first mythgen release, but sometime "soon") should enable you to design your own sites. Those firey vomit temples may be nearer than you expect! Maybe.
Coupled with mythgen including destroyable walls, and knowing how fragile fire and vomit are...
What was going to be covered in the dev item "support for the journey" (seems to have been skipped for this time?)? Is that something like hiring hill dwarves and such to assist? Or sending ahead word for supplies to be prepared?
Yes, when it comes to site support, there's much lower hanging fruit to harvest first, like elven, human, and goblin sites (kobold sites just got an overhaul, but as far as I understand, that's "only" for visiting purposes, not as a complete working "fortress" site).
Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
So probably about 10 years from now, at least.
And it probably won't be 'basic'...
Why waste time on a placeholder when it's already planned? Just extends development for no real reason. There's a good chance that society and law updates will make any temporary system you put in now mostly obsolete. That's a year of work that gets thrown away.Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
So probably about 10 years from now, at least.
And it probably won't be 'basic'...
That idea described in "suggestions" is interesting because it could provide some basic elements first, elements that should be enough to make the world believable and realistic, without devoting that much time. I'm no professional programmer but perhaps Toady could provide something like described in that post while working on some other things before overhauling the economy entirely and making it very realistic, which seems to be the goal.
Oh, I remember now. Underground civs (batmen, etc) are in an even worse temporary, buggy state than kobolds right now. They're the "last" ones. Underground probably needs a complete overhaul to get them right though.Yes, when it comes to site support, there's much lower hanging fruit to harvest first, like elven, human, and goblin sites (kobold sites just got an overhaul, but as far as I understand, that's "only" for visiting purposes, not as a complete working "fortress" site).
we already have elf,human,dwarven,goblin sites, kobolds were the last ones we needed, i mean, im sure he will work on them further, but we have them all now.
Unless you meant for dwarf mode. IM sure he will get to it eventually in taht case, and it already "understands" alot about them.
They are all quite interetsing to visit now.
Why waste time on a placeholder when it's already planned? Just extends development for no real reason. There's a good chance that society and law updates will make any temporary system you put in now mostly obsolete. That's a year of work that gets thrown away.Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
So probably about 10 years from now, at least.
And it probably won't be 'basic'...
That idea described in "suggestions" is interesting because it could provide some basic elements first, elements that should be enough to make the world believable and realistic, without devoting that much time. I'm no professional programmer but perhaps Toady could provide something like described in that post while working on some other things before overhauling the economy entirely and making it very realistic, which seems to be the goal.
Sure, I know nothing, but it's kind of hard to see Toady building up the motivation to do that when there's intersting things that still need developing (magic, boats, editor, etc). He's more likely just to work on economics simulations in his side projects until he gets somewhere near where he want df to be.
Nobody said the economy has to be a perfect system. It may well end up exactly as you say. But it's currently the 4th main feature planned after magic, law and boats (with some back and forth as to whether boats should come before or after).Why waste time on a placeholder when it's already planned? Just extends development for no real reason. There's a good chance that society and law updates will make any temporary system you put in now mostly obsolete. That's a year of work that gets thrown away.Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
So probably about 10 years from now, at least.
And it probably won't be 'basic'...
That idea described in "suggestions" is interesting because it could provide some basic elements first, elements that should be enough to make the world believable and realistic, without devoting that much time. I'm no professional programmer but perhaps Toady could provide something like described in that post while working on some other things before overhauling the economy entirely and making it very realistic, which seems to be the goal.
Sure, I know nothing, but it's kind of hard to see Toady building up the motivation to do that when there's intersting things that still need developing (magic, boats, editor, etc). He's more likely just to work on economics simulations in his side projects until he gets somewhere near where he want df to be.
Such a placeholder could make the game feel realistic for the time being. Creating a proper economic system would be a chore and could well be the single most difficult thing to do to make DF a realistic world sim. Something along the lines I suggested would IMHO make the world more believable and its progression would make more sense.
When it comes to a real economy, just think how many things would need to be modeled:
1. Every single item would need to be present and tracked to really simulate trade, along with its supply and demand properly.
2. Entities would really need to appraise the value of an item according to their own needs. This might be tricky to do, but with a complex value/belief system of each character in the game it might not be that hard. Several examples:
2.1 If I need food and I have something of value, I am willing to sell it cheaper than I otherwise would. What's more, I will value it even less after some time when I'm starving and I would value it at almost nothing if I'm nearly dying.
2.2 Individual attachment can make a simple thing very valuable to a certain individual. An old shield with the coat of arms of an old kingdom might mean the world to a sentimental person who has once fought in its armies.
2.3 Even if an item is not in high demand in town A, it would have a higher value to a clever merchant who would try to purchase a lot of it.
2.4 A cunning merchant might make someone love an item they would otherwise not really want by using their emotions and making them value it a lot. Basically, as salespeople always say, you're not exactly selling an item, you're selling an emotion - like when selling someone a house, you make him fall in love with it by making him for example imagine how his kids would play there in the future. That's selling, and the real value doesn't even have to have much to do with it.
3. When it comes to resources, their price as it reflects the ratio of their usefulness/scarcity, would create a complex system of what materials are being used. If titanium is common, no one would keep using iron anymore. Also, entities that value their work more than combat should use their best materials to make tools first, unless they are threatened by another civ, in which case they will certainly need weapons and armor in the foreseeable future, which would make them value their weapons and armors more than tools, despite their beliefs.
4. The quality of goods could require a complex system. The quality of goods produced by each individual must be influenced by his civ's values, certain traditions, tracked inventions, perhaps the knowledge level of certain guilds, civ's attitude to knowledge and books which contain info on how to produce things, and finally on individual's characteristics and whether he had access to a mentor or not.
5. Usefulness of an item must be carefully tracked so that craftsdwarves know what to manufacture first. It is obvious that they will have to produce more farming tools than arms in the time of peace at least and civs' rulers might try to force them to stop producing everything but the most essential civil equipment and use contracts to buy a lot of arms.
6. The items must wear down so there is a need to replace them, and this needs to be tracked too.
7. Basically the game needs a complex system of contracts that make an individual want to produce a lot of expensive items as he expects payment. Also, how much an individual or civ ordering something can be trusted must be tracked too. Also, we need courts to resolve disputes which must happen, even if only because of the player not paying the craftsman.
Just my two cents on the issue. The world will never be complete without simulating those things, and those might not be that easy to simulate. If, however, Toady One manages to do all that, he will certainly be the first person in history to create such a complex and realistic system and who knows, maybe even economists would use it.
Oh, I remember now. Underground civs (batmen, etc) are in an even worse temporary, buggy state than kobolds right now. They're the "last" ones. Underground probably needs a complete overhaul to get them right though.Yes, when it comes to site support, there's much lower hanging fruit to harvest first, like elven, human, and goblin sites (kobold sites just got an overhaul, but as far as I understand, that's "only" for visiting purposes, not as a complete working "fortress" site).
we already have elf,human,dwarven,goblin sites, kobolds were the last ones we needed, i mean, im sure he will work on them further, but we have them all now.
Unless you meant for dwarf mode. IM sure he will get to it eventually in taht case, and it already "understands" alot about them.
They are all quite interetsing to visit now.
The devnotes (older version) also muses on developing a more robust site system that can handle any kind of site. I guess at that point we can start looking for underwater civs, flying civs and stuff.
Will a deity be able to create some sort of artifact book and pass it to some race?
And named weapons (and other named stuff if worldgen characters do that - Toady named his backpack in Adventurer...).Will a deity be able to create some sort of artifact book and pass it to some race?
Right now that is one of the methods that secrets get introduced into the world. Well, the Deity creates a slab and people find it to discover the secrets of life and death. Or whatever secrets you mod in.
For the current release, I am going to assume that Gods do not create other artifacts. Aside from the secrets, the current world-gen artifacts will (unless I missed something) be limited to relics (i.e. parts of dead people), slabs, and the current dwarf artifact options.
Nobody said the economy has to be a perfect system. It may well end up exactly as you say. But it's currently the 4th main feature planned after magic, law and boats (with some back and forth as to whether boats should come before or after).Why waste time on a placeholder when it's already planned? Just extends development for no real reason. There's a good chance that society and law updates will make any temporary system you put in now mostly obsolete. That's a year of work that gets thrown away.Is it planned to introduce some basic economy that would make civs choose what to buy and sell based on what they need and provide a steady growth? Can the game track all the goods in the world at least rudimentary?Yes. Should be in the dev notes somewhere. But basically it's up next after mythgen and starting scenarios (politics and society) arcs. But maybe boats will come first.
Personally I find this idea interesting - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163691.0
So probably about 10 years from now, at least.
And it probably won't be 'basic'...
That idea described in "suggestions" is interesting because it could provide some basic elements first, elements that should be enough to make the world believable and realistic, without devoting that much time. I'm no professional programmer but perhaps Toady could provide something like described in that post while working on some other things before overhauling the economy entirely and making it very realistic, which seems to be the goal.
Sure, I know nothing, but it's kind of hard to see Toady building up the motivation to do that when there's intersting things that still need developing (magic, boats, editor, etc). He's more likely just to work on economics simulations in his side projects until he gets somewhere near where he want df to be.
Such a placeholder could make the game feel realistic for the time being. Creating a proper economic system would be a chore and could well be the single most difficult thing to do to make DF a realistic world sim. Something along the lines I suggested would IMHO make the world more believable and its progression would make more sense.
When it comes to a real economy, just think how many things would need to be modeled:
1. Every single item would need to be present and tracked to really simulate trade, along with its supply and demand properly.
2. Entities would really need to appraise the value of an item according to their own needs. This might be tricky to do, but with a complex value/belief system of each character in the game it might not be that hard. Several examples:
2.1 If I need food and I have something of value, I am willing to sell it cheaper than I otherwise would. What's more, I will value it even less after some time when I'm starving and I would value it at almost nothing if I'm nearly dying.
2.2 Individual attachment can make a simple thing very valuable to a certain individual. An old shield with the coat of arms of an old kingdom might mean the world to a sentimental person who has once fought in its armies.
2.3 Even if an item is not in high demand in town A, it would have a higher value to a clever merchant who would try to purchase a lot of it.
2.4 A cunning merchant might make someone love an item they would otherwise not really want by using their emotions and making them value it a lot. Basically, as salespeople always say, you're not exactly selling an item, you're selling an emotion - like when selling someone a house, you make him fall in love with it by making him for example imagine how his kids would play there in the future. That's selling, and the real value doesn't even have to have much to do with it.
3. When it comes to resources, their price as it reflects the ratio of their usefulness/scarcity, would create a complex system of what materials are being used. If titanium is common, no one would keep using iron anymore. Also, entities that value their work more than combat should use their best materials to make tools first, unless they are threatened by another civ, in which case they will certainly need weapons and armor in the foreseeable future, which would make them value their weapons and armors more than tools, despite their beliefs.
4. The quality of goods could require a complex system. The quality of goods produced by each individual must be influenced by his civ's values, certain traditions, tracked inventions, perhaps the knowledge level of certain guilds, civ's attitude to knowledge and books which contain info on how to produce things, and finally on individual's characteristics and whether he had access to a mentor or not.
5. Usefulness of an item must be carefully tracked so that craftsdwarves know what to manufacture first. It is obvious that they will have to produce more farming tools than arms in the time of peace at least and civs' rulers might try to force them to stop producing everything but the most essential civil equipment and use contracts to buy a lot of arms.
6. The items must wear down so there is a need to replace them, and this needs to be tracked too.
7. Basically the game needs a complex system of contracts that make an individual want to produce a lot of expensive items as he expects payment. Also, how much an individual or civ ordering something can be trusted must be tracked too. Also, we need courts to resolve disputes which must happen, even if only because of the player not paying the craftsman.
Just my two cents on the issue. The world will never be complete without simulating those things, and those might not be that easy to simulate. If, however, Toady One manages to do all that, he will certainly be the first person in history to create such a complex and realistic system and who knows, maybe even economists would use it.
The only thing that's not going to happen is to stop all current development and make a temporary economy that isn't the real economy that will be thrown away 3 updates from now. Makes no sense.
The game will be more realistic if he does that? Well, yeah, of course, along with everything else. It's not a fantasy world simulator without magic, it's not a fantasy world simulator without law & politics, it's not a fantasy world simulator without boats, it's not a fantasy world simulator without an economy. But Toady's one guy. He'll do it one step at a time.
Right now siege triggers are based on wealth of a fortress and population. After the next update what additional triggers will there be?Goblin siege triggers are based on population. Wealth triggers are set at 0, meaning inactive.
Will other civs send rescue parties for the prisoners we have of theirs?
In the most recent dev log you mentioned prisoners, is imprisonment specific to goblin sites right now or do other civs do it aswell now?Human civs keep prisoners and slaves now, don't they?
Can we rescue them in adventure mode?
In the most recent dev log you mentioned prisoners, is imprisonment specific to goblin sites right now or do other civs do it aswell now?Human civs keep prisoners and slaves now, don't they?
Can we rescue them in adventure mode?
At least, in worldgen. I've only ever run into them in Adventurer when they were fleeing down a street during an insurrection, so not sure if they have actual prisons. You can 'rescue' them if you find them.
Will artefacts be modifiable? - Such as the holy skull of a priest becoming a totem, or if I were to beat elves with a log of wood, name it as a significant object, and then construct a chair out of it.Very unlikely. The skull of a priest will already be a totem (7/15/2016), and resource items like logs will not be nameable (Devlog of 2/15/2017 - only legally nameable items). In all likelihood, the only artifact transformation will remain quires into books.
Will artefacts be modifiable? - Such as the holy skull of a priest becoming a totem, or if I were to beat elves with a log of wood, name it as a significant object, and then construct a chair out of it.Very unlikely. The skull of a priest will already be a totem (7/15/2016), and resource items like logs will not be nameable (Devlog of 2/15/2017 - only legally nameable items). In all likelihood, the only artifact transformation will remain quires into books.
Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?Don't forget that boats is 3 arcs away, two of which are looking like almost definite multiple release arcs. At speedy two year cycles each (including bug-fixes, suggestions, etc) that's 8-9 years at least until boats actually starts to be looked at.
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
I think toady has a few ideas of how he wants boats to work, and he has mentioned sea monsters in an interview before.Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?Don't forget that boats is 3 arcs away, two of which are looking like almost definite multiple release arcs. At speedy two year cycles each (including bug-fixes, suggestions, etc) that's 8-9 years at least until boats actually starts to be looked at.
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
Which isn't to say you won't get a cool answer, just that it's almost certainly not been worked out in the detail you're hoping for, and everything might change in the future.
I think toady has a few ideas of how he wants boats to work, and he has mentioned sea monsters in an interview before.Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?Don't forget that boats is 3 arcs away, two of which are looking like almost definite multiple release arcs. At speedy two year cycles each (including bug-fixes, suggestions, etc) that's 8-9 years at least until boats actually starts to be looked at.
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
Which isn't to say you won't get a cool answer, just that it's almost certainly not been worked out in the detail you're hoping for, and everything might change in the future.
Or huge tentacles grabbing dwarves off your ship.I think toady has a few ideas of how he wants boats to work, and he has mentioned sea monsters in an interview before.Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?Don't forget that boats is 3 arcs away, two of which are looking like almost definite multiple release arcs. At speedy two year cycles each (including bug-fixes, suggestions, etc) that's 8-9 years at least until boats actually starts to be looked at.
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
Which isn't to say you won't get a cool answer, just that it's almost certainly not been worked out in the detail you're hoping for, and everything might change in the future.
Imagine sea monsters combined with multi-tile ones. Huge tentacles grabbing ships and sinking them.
Are the expeditions and squads you can sent out directly controlled by the player, or is it all a weighted RNG thing?No. You send them out then wait for them to come back. They then become part of the simulated outside world, move across the map, stop off at taverns, fight stuff (if that's what you meant by 'weighted rng').
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been curious for some time.
Will we be able to be recruited by traveling NPC adventurers and act as their subordinates?Lime green text if that was a question for Toady.
Currently, it seems planned that worldgen will go through two stages: "creation"(mythgen) and then "history"(current history generation). Are there plans to possibly add an in-between stage for ancient, poorly recorded history before "Year 1" for historical events that happened in the remote past? To elaborate, this would be things like "around 7000 years ago, The Hammers of Dwarfiness was founded by Urist McLegendary" or "around 3500 years ago, the legendary dragon [DragonName] was slain by the human hero [HeroName]". Right now it would be infeasible to generate over 5000 years of proper history(few people have the PC or patience for it), and there's not much distinction between proper, well-recorded historical events(e.g. a major battle that happened just 54 years ago) and vague, legend-sy events that happened possibly before even writing existed(e.g. the founding of a civilization).
So, is there some sort of system planned to support this? It would really help with worlds having a feeling of ancientness and tying "creation"(mythgen) and well-recorded history in a more logical way.
It seems that there are various things in DF that are always the same (dwarves, elves, counts, barons, swords, halberds... etc). Will there eventually be a feature that procgens civilization structures, weapons(like instruments) and civilized races(like clowns)? I could imagine a 'randomness' scale that controls the races, weapons, cultures and so on, but not geography, history gen, and stuff like that. It would probably scale between "Alien Culture" to "Familiar Places" or "Entirely Random" to "Very Predictable".
You basically described part of the mythgen update, which is coming in ~4 years. You know, Toady may add those exact values in the sliders for myth.Yeah, I know about the mythgen thing, but I was wondering if generation was specifically going eventually extend to weapons and other stuff. (can't wait for mythgen gonna be the best thing ever)
Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
Are the expeditions and squads you can sent out directly controlled by the player, or is it all a weighted RNG thing?You send them off your map, then the AI takes control (the world is alive so it's actually a simulation not just "weighted rng") they do their mission and come back if they survived, then tell you what happened.
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been curious for some time.
Will we be able to be recruited by traveling NPC adventurers and act as their subordinates?I took the liberty of coloring your text for you. Make your text lime green if you want toady to answer it.
Magic is meant for next after the artifact release and we are close toIt seems that there are various things in DF that are always the same (dwarves, elves, counts, barons, swords, halberds... etc). Will there eventually be a feature that procgens civilization structures, weapons(like instruments) and civilized races(like clowns)? I could imagine a 'randomness' scale that controls the races, weapons, cultures and so on, but not geography, history gen, and stuff like that. It would probably scale between "Alien Culture" to "Familiar Places" or "Entirely Random" to "Very Predictable".
You basically described part of the mythgen update, which is coming in ~4 years. You know, Toady may add those exact values in the sliders for myth.
Magic is meant for next after the artifact release and we are close toIt seems that there are various things in DF that are always the same (dwarves, elves, counts, barons, swords, halberds... etc). Will there eventually be a feature that procgens civilization structures, weapons(like instruments) and civilized races(like clowns)? I could imagine a 'randomness' scale that controls the races, weapons, cultures and so on, but not geography, history gen, and stuff like that. It would probably scale between "Alien Culture" to "Familiar Places" or "Entirely Random" to "Very Predictable".
You basically described part of the mythgen update, which is coming in ~4 years. You know, Toady may add those exact values in the sliders for myth.
The artifact release, so less then four years, maybe 2 . But it's a pretty huge update.
Are the expeditions and squads you can sent out directly controlled by the player, or is it all a weighted RNG thing?You send them off your map, then the AI takes control (the world is alive so it's actually a simulation not just "weighted rng") they do their mission and come back if they survived, then tell you what happened.
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been curious for some time.
Will there be a lot of Kobold Quest references in the new kobold caves?
Speaking of underground plants, will the weird seasonal-plant inversion ever be fixed? (I refer to the fact that despite the cave river being long dead and gone, the underground plants still only grow during certain seasons, while the aboveground plants can grow at any time. This is exactly the opposite of what you would expect, and what makes sense.)Are the expeditions and squads you can sent out directly controlled by the player, or is it all a weighted RNG thing?You send them off your map, then the AI takes control (the world is alive so it's actually a simulation not just "weighted rng") they do their mission and come back if they survived, then tell you what happened.
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been curious for some time.
So the battles are truly simulated, and not treated as worldgen/offsite battles are (those are just randomly decided)? That is, gear and skills of each side make a difference?
Worldgen battles are simulated, not randomly decided. This next release deepens the simulation a little by taking into account individual dorfs equipment (and ensuring babies sit out the fight).Wish I could upvote this.
(The worldgen battles are certainly simple, basically a series of one on one fights - perhaps a little more complex than that. But definitely not random.)
Worldgen battles are simulated, not randomly decided. This next release deepens the simulation a little by taking into account individual dorfs equipment (and ensuring babies sit out the fight).
(The worldgen battles are certainly simple, basically a series of one on one fights - perhaps a little more complex than that. But definitely not random.)
Speaking of underground plants, will the weird seasonal-plant inversion ever be fixed? (I refer to the fact that despite the cave river being long dead and gone, the underground plants still only grow during certain seasons, while the aboveground plants can grow at any time. This is exactly the opposite of what you would expect, and what makes sense.)Are the expeditions and squads you can sent out directly controlled by the player, or is it all a weighted RNG thing?You send them off your map, then the AI takes control (the world is alive so it's actually a simulation not just "weighted rng") they do their mission and come back if they survived, then tell you what happened.
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been curious for some time.
So the battles are truly simulated, and not treated as worldgen/offsite battles are (those are just randomly decided)? That is, gear and skills of each side make a difference?
Skills and numbers are taken into account in world gen battles. They are definitely not random.
Interesting. So would a region-wide explosion instakill the player if he/she was caught in it, instead of just propelling them away, THEN killing him, because digging on-screen is prohibited in the latter case?
Will civs be able to send missionaries or crusades someday, or otherwise make alliances or enemies based on religion or divine allegiances? Any thoughts on what that would be like? What say would the player have?
Why don't you get an AC unit for your place? It is too expensive in US? Your energy bill would raise too much? Every year you seems to have the same issues with heat.
Speaking of which, is there a reason only some tags are supported by syndrome CE add/remove tags? Is there any future plans to expand the scope of supported tags? Asking because full tag support (ala creature variations) would certainly be a holy grail for modders.
What specifically does the worldgen population cap do? It seems to have a strong relationship with the histfig count unless it is set too low.
Is it related to the entity population values?
Are there any places where the number of non-histfig members of a civ or race can be found?
The dfhack structures have a tree with df > global > world > world_data > sites > inhabitants, and summing all the inhabitants in the sites gives a value which is VERY close to the one from the world_sites_and_pops.txt export, does the exported version include histfigs or something?
1. In fortress mode, will random (and normally worthless) artifacts gain some amount of magical ability. Becaus I do notice there is a sh*ton of usless artifacts, gloves of mittens that do not have a pair, or even a ring that was a wast of som precious resources. It would smply make them less of a wast its that did somthing related to magic.
2. Also in fortress mode. Could you make a pact with a god or som similar being to give you divine metal other then from dungeons. A ritual or exchange sacrifice, maybe build lots som item.
3. As a demigod in adventur mode, could you get some orders/quests/requests from your parent god. With all consivable consequences?
4. Might there be big rituals that you can do in the fortress, ( build some giant rune siècle sor equivalent for the magic of the world)
5. (If 4 is true) could some terrible accident happen with them, causing a dissaster. Set off all the volcanos, rain blood for a bit, maby resurrect all the dead everywhere(zombie apocalypse). Maby explode your fortress, or even teleport it to an alternat dimension, causing dimensional risk storms. At just simply makes your region haunted.
6. Make magical defences for your fort.
7. Could you colonize another dimension if you built a fort on a stable portal and then build on the other side.
What level of importance, if any do you think would be appropriate for individuals to predicate their reactions based on their recorded of generated histories? For example, will being a tradesmen/slave/leader/orphan have any direct measurable impact, or is the combinatorial complexity of trying to dictate how an experience shapes someone beyond the scope of Dwarf Fortress and it's Adventure mode?
Are individuals identifying with or believing in social stereotypes and biases based on one's profession, background, or appearance out of scope?
I know there's some scratchings of what I mentioned currently in place in the values system, but as it is, the intricacies, troubles, and emotional baggage that most experiences, professions, and positions would presumably have in real life are mostly either absent or impotent, ingame. Whether they're important or not is not my call, nor am I really sure of it personally, either.
Completely edge case question, but interested for a mod I have. If an [UTTERANCES] race (like kobolds) had a caste that could speak and didn't have [UTTERANCES], and you convinced a member of that caste that you were a genuine kobold using the new fake identities mechanic, would the rest of the civ become non-hostile to you? Or does it not work like that? Would they even give you the chance to explain yourself?
1. What sort of divine laws will we see in the first pass of the myth and magic update if any?
2. If someone broke a divine law would the deity in question in fantasy worlds be able to curse them for breaking it?
In your weekly update, you mentioned that artifacts were passed around extended families. Does this mean artifacts will pass from, say, uncle to nephew? If so, will you be transferring that to government positions? Will we finally see someone besides the eldest child inherit a position?
What, if anything, will be changed/new in Legends mode for this the artifact release?
My question is though, do you ever plan to add a post processing step to map generation where it looks through the region names for specific keywords (e.g. "Worms" or "Centaurs" whenever you add them) and actually say decides to spawn a population of centaurs on "Centaur Isle" or specifically makes the grass worms in the "hill of worms". Or some feature that is akin to this.
How well defended are world-gen artifacts, do they ever get placed in tombs with the world-gen rulers? And if they are in fact hidden in the tomb are they elegible for quests?
What was going to be covered in the dev item "support for the journey" (seems to have been skipped for this time?)? Is that something like hiring hill dwarves and such to assist? Or sending ahead word for supplies to be prepared?
Once the myth gen is integrated, will we be able to see what the generator has created?
Has the stress system been fixed for the next release? I recall someone mentioning that the effects from inebriation were too strong, has this been confirmed yet? The stress system as it stands is quite a pity, I have never even had a dwarf with positive stress level before, which basically removes an entire facet of the game.
Currently, it seems planned that worldgen will go through two stages: "creation"(mythgen) and then "history"(current history generation). Are there plans to possibly add an in-between stage for ancient, poorly recorded history before "Year 1" for historical events that happened in the remote past? To elaborate, this would be things like "around 7000 years ago, The Hammers of Dwarfiness was founded by Urist McLegendary" or "around 3500 years ago, the legendary dragon [DragonName] was slain by the human hero [HeroName]". Right now it would be infeasible to generate over 5000 years of proper history(few people have the PC or patience for it), and there's not much distinction between proper, well-recorded historical events(e.g. a major battle that happened just 54 years ago) and vague, legend-sy events that happened possibly before even writing existed(e.g. the founding of a civilization).
So, is there some sort of system planned to support this? It would really help with worlds having a feeling of ancientness and tying "creation"(mythgen) and well-recorded history in a more logical way.
Will a deity be able to create some sort of artifact book and pass it to some race?
In the most recent dev log you mentioned prisoners, is imprisonment specific to goblin sites right now or do other civs do it aswell now in the coming version?
Can we rescue them in adventure mode?
Will the origin of holy relics be moddable at all? I'm thinking a raw tag on the priest position like [HOLY_BODY_PARTS] or something that we could add to custom positions. It would be nice for mods which have extended religious positions in Force based religions.
Will sea creatures be expanded upon when boats are out?
Will there be such a thing as Sea FB?
Will FB have access to magic?
How will we know if all the dwarves in a squad have been taken prisoner? I know the dev pages mention 'rumours' of a squad's demise but specifically what will happen? Will it be noted on the map (and does that just update with prisoner figures automatically)? Will someone be able to give an account of their journey?
Will prisoner rescue squads pick up other prisoners if they're at the site and of a friendly civ? What if they're not of a friendly civ?
Will there be a lot of Kobold Quest references in the new kobold caves?
It seems that there are various things in DF that are always the same (dwarves, elves, counts, barons, swords, halberds... etc). Will there eventually be a feature that procgens civilization structures, weapons(like instruments) and civilized races(like clowns)? I could imagine a 'randomness' scale that controls the races, weapons, cultures and so on, but not geography, history gen, and stuff like that. It would probably scale between "Alien Culture" to "Familiar Places" or "Entirely Random" to "Very Predictable".
I'm curious as to how you're considering sorting out the baby survivor issue. Is it not possible to just imprison them (presumably they'll starve or something)? Are you thinking of adding something detailed later (orphanages, temples, foster families, sacrifice at dawn) to deal with them?
Will we be able to be recruited by traveling NPC adventurers and act as their subordinates?
Quote from: StagnantSoulWill we ever see an expansion on the cavern plants like we did for the aboveground? Or keep them more basic for newer players?Quote from: Dozebom LolumzalisSpeaking of underground plants, will the weird seasonal-plant inversion ever be fixed? (I refer to the fact that despite the cave river being long dead and gone, the underground plants still only grow during certain seasons, while the aboveground plants can grow at any time. This is exactly the opposite of what you would expect, and what makes sense.)
If you are playing adventure mode and the game says you are the wrong color or sex etc. to speak to somebody, or your dwarves start spitting [on] certain people, or worse, I think we incur a deeper obligation with our players out there in the real world than just saying "oh the generator did that, no big deal".
Welp. I haven't even asked any questions in a while, and since you mentioned me again despite not having any questions for you, I guess it's that time of year again. It's time...for the dreaded scorpionpost!
Ever gonna copy-paste giant desert scorpions back into the raws? <3
Racial prejudice is a part of reality and also a part of fiction. While a story may not need to have racial prejudice as a theme or even included, it's very important to include if you're going to create a realistic world(especially if it's a world with humans and creatures which act similar to humans). If you're an adventurer and someone is prejudiced against you, great! It gives an opportunity for you to interact with the world in a more interesting way! Perhaps you slay a great creature threatening these people, and forever change their world view for the rest of history! The important thing to remember is that it's fiction. Not only is it fiction, but it's fiction generated by a computer, and doesn't necessarily reflect the values of the creator. Thinking that way would be like saying that XCOM is a game about the developer's ideal world. "Oh yes i'd love to get invaded and experimented on by aliens that would just be lovely". Anyone who thinks like that is... well an idiot.Yes, as I said, it's a great way to add much needed depth to civs. But, if you end up playing a few games, and every single time the rng ends up making a world with a white master race with rampant black slavery and prejudice, it's going to be a problem.
In worlds where gods/forces physically exist, would the death of a god eventually lead to rumors of their death, which itself would cause their followers to worship another god? Would priests working in temples devoted to that god change their profession upon learning of their god's death? Would temples dedicated to that god be destroyed, or would they be re-dedicated to another god?
I agree with what Mechanoid said regarding the matter. Plenty of fantasy games already have these sorts of themes anyway, I don't see how it'd be different in this case.
I'm normally the sort of person who thinks if someone gets offended its on them (in this case I'd find it especially ridiculous since the worlds are randomly generated - there'd be as much of a chance of a pale-skinned human civ enslaving other humans who are darker as that of the opposite happening), but if Toady wants a more "diplomatic" solution then it could always be simplified to mere "racial" prejudice - not as in, skin colour differences between members of the same race that are only from different civs, but rather i.e humans disliking goblins due to worldgen wars or other conflicts, or dwarves disliking humans due to their own conflicts, etc. etc.
You can just do it yourself using the raws from the wiki, you know.
will add replacement scorpion later
I agree with what Mechanoid said regarding the matter. Plenty of fantasy games already have these sorts of themes anyway, I don't see how it'd be different in this case.
I'm normally the sort of person who thinks if someone gets offended its on them (in this case I'd find it especially ridiculous since the worlds are randomly generated - there'd be as much of a chance of a pale-skinned human civ enslaving other humans who are darker as that of the opposite happening), but if Toady wants a more "diplomatic" solution then it could always be simplified to mere "racial" prejudice - not as in, skin colour differences between members of the same race that are only from different civs, but rather i.e humans disliking goblins due to worldgen wars or other conflicts, or dwarves disliking humans due to their own conflicts, etc. etc.
It is really not a question of adding these things in or not, it is a question of how to add them. It is far more realistic to have no prejudices at all, than it is to have them added randomly in order to fulfil some kind of inherent prejudice drive that the creature or entity has simply be virtue of it's being whatever it is. In real-life racism in particular is based upon the symbolic value of appearance connected to a historical situation, in some cases defunct. So the minimum requirement for 'realistic' racism in DF would be to track if a given trait (including simply being of a given race/species) is typical of a given group, either a foreign entity or a sub-group within your own entity; this is much needed from the perspective of detecting for instance spies. So everyone uses the same information about the typical appearance of the members of various groups, if only to guess that Stranger X is probably an outsider but racists would immediately deduce that they *are* such and such a thing, in addition to what everybody else deduces. Non-racists would replace their presumed information about an individual or group with the actual information when they learn it, racists on the other hand would cling to said inferred information and be resistant to evidence suggesting the contrary.
Culture would also factor into this, so I'd say it would actually be less realistic to have no prejudices at all - for example, lets say we have two groups - group A values martial prowess and doesn't particularly care about peace, leisure time or nature - whereas group B highly values knowledge, nature, peace and leisure time but doesn't particularly care about martial prowess. I highly doubt the groups wouldn't have prejudices about each other - with members of group A seeing the majority of group B as decadent, weak whelps, and group B seeing the majority of group A as violent, ignorant barbarians.I agree with what Mechanoid said regarding the matter. Plenty of fantasy games already have these sorts of themes anyway, I don't see how it'd be different in this case.
I'm normally the sort of person who thinks if someone gets offended its on them (in this case I'd find it especially ridiculous since the worlds are randomly generated - there'd be as much of a chance of a pale-skinned human civ enslaving other humans who are darker as that of the opposite happening), but if Toady wants a more "diplomatic" solution then it could always be simplified to mere "racial" prejudice - not as in, skin colour differences between members of the same race that are only from different civs, but rather i.e humans disliking goblins due to worldgen wars or other conflicts, or dwarves disliking humans due to their own conflicts, etc. etc.
It is really not a question of adding these things in or not, it is a question of how to add them. It is far more realistic to have no prejudices at all, than it is to have them added randomly in order to fulfil some kind of inherent prejudice drive that the creature or entity has simply be virtue of it's being whatever it is. In real-life racism in particular is based upon the symbolic value of appearance connected to a historical situation, in some cases defunct. So the minimum requirement for 'realistic' racism in DF would be to track if a given trait (including simply being of a given race/species) is typical of a given group, either a foreign entity or a sub-group within your own entity; this is much needed from the perspective of detecting for instance spies. So everyone uses the same information about the typical appearance of the members of various groups, if only to guess that Stranger X is probably an outsider but racists would immediately deduce that they *are* such and such a thing, in addition to what everybody else deduces. Non-racists would replace their presumed information about an individual or group with the actual information when they learn it, racists on the other hand would cling to said inferred information and be resistant to evidence suggesting the contrary.
The Giant Desert Scorpion is dedd. Nevah to return. Quoth the file changes.txt:Quotewill add replacement scorpion later
:P
Would the secondary load areas work like fort or adventure mode, meaning: do you move inside a square or will the map load chunks around an object that moves?
Since I am writing a book about dwarves right now, and music has a pretty big part in it, I had to ask:Lime green for questions.
Is there any possibility of clarifying the randomly generated musical instruments? So far if I want to build or buy some instruments, I have to go through a bit painful process of reading through what each instrument is and what it does. I mean, that is fun and kinda cool, but I would like it a lot if for example there was a (wind), or (string) tag in front of the random name. Would be much quicker and clearer in my opinion.
With the addition of expeditions, will you be able to send squads out to civs your at war with to negotiate a treaty?Civs go to war with each other. Individual site wars are much rarer. So negotiating treaties would likely to be up to the mountainhome, not your single fortress.
With the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.Toady already said a month or so back that harrasment causes full-scale civ on civ war, not single site on site conflict. So, yeah, if you get that elf report from the diplomat, expect an invasion soon (although npcs probably don't send harassment squads yet).
Culture would also factor into this, so I'd say it would actually be less realistic to have no prejudices at all - for example, lets say we have two groups - group A values martial prowess and doesn't particularly care about peace, leisure time or nature - whereas group B highly values knowledge, nature, peace and leisure time but doesn't particularly care about martial prowess. I highly doubt the groups wouldn't have prejudices about each other - with members of group A seeing the majority of group B as decadent, weak whelps, and group B seeing the majority of group A as violent, ignorant barbarians.
Even if they weren't engaged in outright war, I don't believe members of either group would treat members of the other fairly - higher prices for goods, etc. - unless they proved themselves in some way to their society.
On the prejudice side of things . . . as long as there's no absolute trends, there isn't an issue. Don't tie prejudice just to species or color. Add in all kinds of prejudiced traits, both physical and mental. And give high speakers the ability to change peoples' minds about said prejudice. It's only when you make something highly likely to happen that it becomes a problem. Heck, give these prejudices a logical underpinning, even. I'm sure the original cases of racism back when we were all primitives stemmed from competition for resources. The modern stuff came from a lot of different sources, depending on where you are. The Southern style in the states was boosted by black slaves taking over jobs that free whites were paid to do beforehand. And then further amplified on purpose by the slave owners as a way to keep the slaves from getting freed earlier.
It's a lot of work, so I don't blame Toady for not getting into it. Just, if the systems come into place for it as a natural consequence of development, think about it?
With the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.
-snip-Racism definitely isn't a modern thing, as a subset of tribalism. Most people, just like animals, prefer to be with those who are like them - those who don't look like them - wheter it'd be major or minor differences - or "speak funny" would be considered outsiders and wouldn't be welcome, regardless of their intentions. Long-term exposure could definitely prove the "racists" and tribals wrong enough to change their minds, definitely not as impossible as you're making it out to be. On a separate note - outside of that there are tropes like the softer "you're a credit to your race" or "you're good for an X" that are commonplace in settings similar to DF's own.
So far if I want to build or buy some instruments, I have to go through a bit painful process of reading through what each instrument is and what it does. I mean, that is fun and kinda cool, but I would like it a lot if for example there was a (wind), or (string) tag in front of the random name. Would be much quicker and clearer in my opinion.
I suspect you either misunderstood what I tried to say, but we may also actually disagree. What I tried to say was that I think siege triggers remain in force until the player goads other civs into attacking, bypassing them. However, if the civ is already in a conflict when you embark (or enters one during the build up phase of your fortress without you causing it), the siege triggers would still protect that site until it's ripe for attack. I guess we'll have to wait for Toady's answer for the definite word on it, though.With the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.Toady already said a month or so back that harrasment causes full-scale civ on civ war, not single site on site conflict. So, yeah, if you get that elf report from the diplomat, expect an invasion soon (although npcs probably don't send harassment squads yet).
Yeah, sorry wasn't clear about which bit of your post I was responding to. You mentioned "retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ" whereas such 'retaliatory attacks' actually don't seem to exist (just a retaliatory declaration of war). But its a bit unclear what the situation is right now.I suspect you either misunderstood what I tried to say, but we may also actually disagree. What I tried to say was that I think siege triggers remain in force until the player goads other civs into attacking, bypassing them. However, if the civ is already in a conflict when you embark (or enters one during the build up phase of your fortress without you causing it), the siege triggers would still protect that site until it's ripe for attack. I guess we'll have to wait for Toady's answer for the definite word on it, though.With the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.Toady already said a month or so back that harrasment causes full-scale civ on civ war, not single site on site conflict. So, yeah, if you get that elf report from the diplomat, expect an invasion soon (although npcs probably don't send harassment squads yet).
Toady said that yes you can attack sites of your own civ, I'm not sure what happens to your status in the civilization though.QuoteWith the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.
Sorry if that was answered already, but what happens when you attack a site of your own civilization ? Will you even be able to ? Will it cause your site to be "expelled" from your parent civ ?
No, he didn't. He said specifically no, you can't attack the sites of your own civ. You can attack other dwarf civs though (and mercs don't care if you send them to attack their own civs, apparently).Toady said that yes you can attack sites of your own civ, I'm not sure what happens to your status in the civilization though.QuoteWith the current logic pre existing war does not circumvent the siege triggers, so my guess is that nothing is being done to change that. Also note that the retaliatory siege trigger overriding attacks are directed at the offending site, not any random site belonging to the civ. (Possible bug report: "I embarked while at peace with the elves". In the autumn the diplomat came by and told me about a daring artifact raid by a neighbor site, and in winter my fortress was razed by a full scale elven siege"). In my view the only way to get sieged prematurely should be to either bring it in yourself through raids, or by resuming or reclaiming (with reclaiming being dubious) a fortress that already is involved in a site level conflict. It would be useful to get this cleared up by Toady, though.
Sorry if that was answered already, but what happens when you attack a site of your own civilization ? Will you even be able to ? Will it cause your site to be "expelled" from your parent civ ?
If you want to be nervous about war you can change the siege pop trigger to 1, which should get you eligible rather quickly unless your civ is dead. Personally I wouldn't mind if you could flip the "let them ignore triggers" flag in the raws (or replace the pop trigger with number, as with the Titan attack trigger). We'll see what Toady cooks up.Yeah, wait and see I guess.
Will there be something on the edge of the world in mythgen, based on the creation myth?"Maybe".
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Come the mythgen release, do you think we'll get any details on what lies beyond the borders of our maps? For example, if some worlds are meant to be exactly what we see, perhaps floating on the back of a turtle? While others are meant to be part of something bigger?
Probably? I have various riffs on the turtle idea in the generator notes, but haven't done any of them in the generator yet. We had some issues with having civs outside the main world that could send invaders without any ability to reply (which was sort of in a very early version), so the region-within-a-world model isn't as attractive now, even though it is in the list of default gen params. It'll be especially weird when planar travel comes in and you can reply (if it makes sense) to planar invaders, but not to some barbarians that come in from the edge. Though there could be room for a kind of infinite home plane as well, where it has to cope with the idea of civs going on and on forever, which is sort of interesting, but mushy.
@Inarius: I think you confuse your celestial mechanics.
1. multiple moons has been mentioned as a possible thing, especially in the context of werebeast funniness involving multiple moon phases
So few players either know about or use the ingame macro recording feature. There is currently 1 major bug which prevents it from being fully utilized;There's a world editor planned (appears in mythgen devnotes, although not sure how likely that is, at least in the first run). That'll let you design sites as you like, place histfigs etc and basically replicate whatever fantasy worlds you like.
- If I play a macro to place 10 thrones and 10 tables, but only have 6 thrones, the macro stops completely instead of just bypassing that step and building all the remaining tables. Can you say offhand how difficult of a fix this would be?
- On a related note, have you considered adding a 'free build' mode for the purpose of macro recording ingame? Just a blank canvas where digging and building are instantaneous.
Will heroes and adventurers ever have titles related to their achievements? For example, in one adventure mode world I killed about twenty buzzards. Could there be a thing where I become MoonstoneFace the Buzzard Killer/Slayer of Birds, and could that be added to generated heroes based on their achievements?
Will heroes and adventurers ever have titles related to their achievements? For example, in one adventure mode world I killed about twenty buzzards. Could there be a thing where I become MoonstoneFace the Buzzard Killer/Slayer of Birds, and could that be added to generated heroes based on their achievements?Would be nice to see a more dynamic system that connects titles closer with reputation. That way, different parts of the world would know you by different titles, which seems to be how it works in a lot of fantasy. With an attached title only coming in when your reputation throughout the world is firmly established. We're already starting to see indications of that with 'protector of the weak' and such.
There's a world editor planned (appears in mythgen devnotes, although not sure how likely that is, at least in the first run). That'll let you design sites as you like, place histfigs etc and basically replicate whatever fantasy worlds you like.A full world painter would indeed be epic. As for the macro issue, I'm not sure it would be actually be that complicated. I say so because the utility 'Quick Fort' has had this fix implemented as long as I can remember. That is why I currently use Quick Fort macros for placing furniture & designating rooms, while the ingame macros are for digging only. Would be nice if I could move all of my recordings to the ingame format.
Macro recorder is just recording a sequence of keypresses isn't it? That seems like it wouldn't be a quick fix but a new system altogether.
Uzol had orders, though, and he followed them to the letter. He broke into the temple and brought me back the relic... now I guess I have a save if I want to test being invaded by angry humans.
What with all the desire of maintaining the siege triggers, maybe a concept could be that a fortress is in "low profile" mode until they commit to some diplomatic action that opens them up to the general diplomacy and trade scene? So an isolationist fortress would experience very limited trade and outside contact, and of any incoming attacks, there would be ones they're more likely to pay off simply by surprising the ill-informed with the amount they're willing to give away, or people just getting lost trying to find your fort. Just a thought, though.Given that neither diplomacy nor a decent economy is in the near term cards, that doesn't seem very likely. When it comes to the upcoming release, all the indications have been that the only thing you can "trade" to avert a siege is requested artifacts, so being deferred to the economy arc seems like the probable outcome.
How much significance will currency have in diplomatic exchange in this upcoming release? Are the plans to make them significant for such measures deferred out until the Economy arc?
if you send a dwarf out by himself on an expedition, would they get attacked by bogeymen at night?Answered a couple of months ago. No.
That sucks.if you send a dwarf out by himself on an expedition, would they get attacked by bogeymen at night?Answered a couple of months ago. No.
Bogeymen are due for a revamp during mythgen. Probably because they're a weird player-centered gamey device with no real meaning in the world right now.That sucks.if you send a dwarf out by himself on an expedition, would they get attacked by bogeymen at night?Answered a couple of months ago. No.
...yes I want that. I just really like the idea of me not being the only one in the DF worlds that gets mauled by those jerks.
Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?"Ever" is a long time. When two way portals come along it ought to eventually be possible to have activities on both sides at the same time, which might be called "two fortresses" or "one fortress with activities split over several locations". Two actual fortresses (i.e. two embarks, etc) is unlikely, but would rather end up as a new civ level game mode where fortresses aren't controlled in detail (however that would work, if it gets implemented). I doubt sufficiently many people would want to control multiple embarks in parallel at the current level of detail for Toady to find it worth the trouble to implement it.
Yeah more likely to be one main site and one minor site if at all. Since the ai can handle sites by itself there's not much point really. Two bits of a 'single fortress' based in two dimensions linked by a portal maybe.Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?"Ever" is a long time. When two way portals come along it ought to eventually be possible to have activities on both sides at the same time, which might be called "two fortresses" or "one fortress with activities split over several locations". Two actual fortresses (i.e. two embarks, etc) is unlikely, but would rather end up as a new civ level game mode where fortresses aren't controlled in detail (however that would work, if it gets implemented). I doubt sufficiently many people would want to control multiple embarks in parallel at the current level of detail for Toady to find it worth the trouble to implement it.
Will night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?
Will night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?
I hope. That would be very fun, especially if you could send your own dwarves to rescue them.
Will night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?
I hope. That would be very fun, especially if you could send your own dwarves to rescue them.
Managing several sites at the same time is not something's that crazy and really doesn't need magic portals. It would suffice if you simply can control the adjacents squares to your fortress to expand it. Finally you could have a city more than a fortress.Having more than one site active in memory is the critical step for multiple sites, and this logic is going to be introduced by Toady as two way portals are implemented.
Moore's law is basically dead at this point due to the whole "physics" thing. Memory size increases don't have much to do with it anyway, that's all determined by breakthroughs in technology, which are happening pretty regularly.
(Moore's law is specifically about transistors per square inch on integrated circuits, so breakthroughs in technology definitely aren't counted there)
So I was wondering if it was possible to add a sort of prepare/fire thing for ranged weapons. Mind you, I know that you already have this in a way, but I mean a specific value, like for melee weapons. For example, if someone were to implement a repeating crossbow, [RANGED_ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:1:1] instead of say [RANGED_ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:1:10] or something along those lines. It would really open up modding, I think.
So I was wondering if it was possible to add a sort of prepare/fire thing for ranged weapons. Mind you, I know that you already have this in a way, but I mean a specific value, like for melee weapons. For example, if someone were to implement a repeating crossbow, [RANGED_ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:1:1] instead of say [RANGED_ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:1:10] or something along those lines. It would really open up modding, I think.I'm certain it's possible, if that's what you really wanted to know. Suggestions, on the other hand, belong in the suggestions forum section.
Once the justice system finds its way into adventure mode, will it be possible for your player character to start out as a prisoner?If you've some idea of how that would work besides 'wait to be rescued', you should take it to the suggestions board. Think the current thinking is that, after imprisonment you'd retire then try to rescue yourself with a new adventurer (or now with a rescue squad too).
Once the justice system finds its way into adventure mode, will it be possible for your player character to start out as a prisoner?If you've some idea of how that would work besides 'wait to be rescued', you should take it to the suggestions board. Think the current thinking is that, after imprisonment you'd retire then try to rescue yourself with a new adventurer (or now with a rescue squad too).
Once the justice system finds its way into adventure mode, will it be possible for your player character to start out as a prisoner?Probably possible if not intentful. You should be able to take over any historical person, and if their in prison, then them too.
Yes, but there doesn't seem to be a plan yet as to what you'd actually do after having been imprisoned. Which is why I suggested a Suggestion. Large scale prison sites, slaves with a fair amount of freedom to move around, gladiators, etc. There's a fair amount of fun stuff you could do besides 'wait in a cage'.Once the justice system finds its way into adventure mode, will it be possible for your player character to start out as a prisoner?Probably possible if not intentful. You should be able to take over any historical person, and if their in prison, then them too.
EDIT:
And there is a planned goal to get captured and become imprisoned. So playing as a prisoner is planned. No reason not to start as one then.
3. Will magic that disguises what you look like be possible in some worlds?A dwarf is no one.
Picking locks, deconstructing walls, jumping guards, fashioning tools/weapons, randomly being rescued, cooperating on a breakout, all sorts of things planned.Prison chief (staring at hole in wall): So...what exactly happened?
Moore's law is basically dead at this point due to the whole "physics" thing. Memory size increases don't have much to do with it anyway, that's all determined by breakthroughs in technology, which are happening pretty regularly.intel disagrees.
(Moore's law is specifically about transistors per square inch on integrated circuits, so breakthroughs in technology definitely aren't counted there)
Will the raws of procedurally generated creatures - titans, angels, forgotten beasts, etc. - eventually interact more with the other creature raws?
I noticed demons occasionally are made out of modded materials - would it be possible then to have procedurally generated creatures that derive from other files? I.e sometimes instead of an FB thats a "cat with three eyes and a tail" you'd have a giant gorlak made out of iron with horns, or a gargantuan dwarf with chitin instead of skin, eye stalks and antennae.
Will the raws of procedurally generated creatures - titans, angels, forgotten beasts, etc. - eventually interact more with the other creature raws?
I noticed demons occasionally are made out of modded materials - would it be possible then to have procedurally generated creatures that derive from other files? I.e sometimes instead of an FB thats a "cat with three eyes and a tail" you'd have a giant gorlak made out of iron with horns, or a gargantuan dwarf with chitin instead of skin, eye stalks and antennae.
Or a deadly-dust spewing hydra made of steel.
Enjoying your nightmares?
That's not a nightmare, thats a dream. An unholy badass monstrosity of a dream but still a dream.Will the raws of procedurally generated creatures - titans, angels, forgotten beasts, etc. - eventually interact more with the other creature raws?
I noticed demons occasionally are made out of modded materials - would it be possible then to have procedurally generated creatures that derive from other files? I.e sometimes instead of an FB thats a "cat with three eyes and a tail" you'd have a giant gorlak made out of iron with horns, or a gargantuan dwarf with chitin instead of skin, eye stalks and antennae.
Or a deadly-dust spewing hydra made of steel.
Enjoying your nightmares?
Thanks for the link, Shonai_Dweller.No problem. I'm sure it'll be posted in the devblog when Toady gets back. Just wanted to put this question up since he brought up the subject and it gets requested quite often.
Are there any ideas yet for how creation myths will function in worlds with little or no magic?
Because the creation myth forms the myths and legends that each race believes about their own creation. It won't be true in mundane worlds, but will be just as important.Are there any ideas yet for how creation myths will function in worlds with little or no magic?
In truly magicless worlds, why not add something fixed like "this planet formed from asteroids a few billons of years ago"?
Because the creation myth forms the myths and legends that each race believes about their own creation. It won't be true in mundane worlds, but will be just as important.Are there any ideas yet for how creation myths will function in worlds with little or no magic?
In truly magicless worlds, why not add something fixed like "this planet formed from asteroids a few billons of years ago"?
Mythgen directly effects everything in the world. It's not just background fluff. Mundane worlds, like our own, will feature civs whose ethics, values, legends, beliefs, laws, etc are based on their version of the myth. No magic, sure, but that never stopped religion having a massive impact on our world.Because the creation myth forms the myths and legends that each race believes about their own creation. It won't be true in mundane worlds, but will be just as important.Are there any ideas yet for how creation myths will function in worlds with little or no magic?
In truly magicless worlds, why not add something fixed like "this planet formed from asteroids a few billons of years ago"?
Oh. I thought it was something absolute.
My main concern is just where worldgen would start in worlds where creation myths are (probably) false. Would there be a whole process of geology and evolution slowly shaping the world or would it just skip straight past the myth stage like it does now, or maybe something else entirely?I expect magical geographic features are correctly tagged with a fantasy level so they don't happen at the most mundane point. Then it would just create the myth as always and start worldgen.
Good/Evil is going to be replaced by something spherish with Myth&Magic, but apart from that a fully mundane world would probably go through essentially the same creation as now (without Good/Evil), but with a Myth generation background preamble (influencing history, as civs build on it).My main concern is just where worldgen would start in worlds where creation myths are (probably) false. Would there be a whole process of geology and evolution slowly shaping the world or would it just skip straight past the myth stage like it does now, or maybe something else entirely?I expect magical geographic features are correctly tagged with a fantasy level so they don't happen at the most mundane point. Then it would just create the myth as always and start worldgen.
Will night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?
I hope. That would be very fun, especially if you could send your own dwarves to rescue them.
Then, since they transform at the time of birth, if it's a woman, perform surgery to remove the night troll embryo.
Will night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?
I hope. That would be very fun, especially if you could send your own dwarves to rescue them.
Then, since they transform at the time of birth, if it's a woman, perform surgery to remove the night troll embryo.
OK, I have a couple questions about this.
1. is it the same for male abductees? as in do they transform when the night troll mother gives birth?
2. If their abducted again their will(it is an abduction right?) does that mean that the night troll has to force them for the first insemination as they have not transformed yet and are still unwilling?
I mainly ask because there was a big discussion about adding rape to DF in the sex suggestion from the suggestion forum but this makes it sound like rape is already in DF, if so then DF's night trolls remind me of the trolls from the Berserk manga...
I mainly ask because there was a big discussion about adding rape to DF in the sex suggestion from the suggestion forum but this makes it sound like rape is already in DF, if so then DF's night trolls remind me of the trolls from the Berserk manga...
OK, I have a couple questions about this.
1. is it the same for male abductees? as in do they transform when the night troll mother gives birth?
2. If their abducted again their will(it is an abduction right?) does that mean that the night troll has to force them for the first insemination as they have not transformed yet and are still unwilling?
QuoteOK, I have a couple questions about this.
1. is it the same for male abductees? as in do they transform when the night troll mother gives birth?
2. If their abducted again their will(it is an abduction right?) does that mean that the night troll has to force them for the first insemination as they have not transformed yet and are still unwilling?
I always imagined they were transformed into a night creature before mating. If the game code literally considers them non-troll until the birth that's probably just placeholder and the mechanics of night trolls will get fleshed out more later, maybe with the myth stuff.
Regardless of their sex?
Note that the only thing that led me to believe in this is legends mode. It says that they imprison, then 9 months later the abductee transforms AND gives birth.Hadn't noticed that, makes it all the more horrific I suppose, but I'd assume the fetus was of the converted race already and the birth is just when the corruption finishes.
Note that the only thing that led me to believe in this is legends mode. It says that they imprison, then 9 months later the abductee transforms AND gives birth.Hadn't noticed that, makes it all the more horrific I suppose, but I'd assume the fetus was of the converted race already and the birth is just when the corruption finishes.
Export the legends xml, find the first few historical events relating to the abduction and transformation by night creatures, as well as the first few night trolls being born, and compare the year and seconds72 (there are 403200 of these to a year) entries of those events and the birth subtag of the historical figures.Note that the only thing that led me to believe in this is legends mode. It says that they imprison, then 9 months later the abductee transforms AND gives birth.Hadn't noticed that, makes it all the more horrific I suppose, but I'd assume the fetus was of the converted race already and the birth is just when the corruption finishes.
Yup. We need more !!SCIENCE!! on this, but I'm not sure about how to do that.
Did all that. I meant stuff like "can you unretire converted retired adventurers?Export the legends xml, find the first few historical events relating to the abduction and transformation by night creatures, as well as the first few night trolls being born, and compare the year and seconds72 (there are 403200 of these to a year) entries of those events and the birth subtag of the historical figures.Note that the only thing that led me to believe in this is legends mode. It says that they imprison, then 9 months later the abductee transforms AND gives birth.Hadn't noticed that, makes it all the more horrific I suppose, but I'd assume the fetus was of the converted race already and the birth is just when the corruption finishes.
Yup. We need more !!SCIENCE!! on this, but I'm not sure about how to do that.
Elves showing up as peddlars, but the game giving them away as "Warrior" in their travel logs
Quote from: ToadyElves showing up as peddlars, but the game giving them away as "Warrior" in their travel logs
No-one will suspect the elvish inquisition.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tad too many metal weapons on that elf, obviously a bowman and the sword is just for show.People will kill their visitors if they feel like it regardless of their professions. It's just one way people enjoy the game. All visitors can be spies, turn them off if you don't like them.
- With a understandable risk of being targeted for 'accidents' because the player knows its a dummy profession (or least a generic concealable one) do peddlers have any specific purpose to fortress mode to dissasuade players from calling a militia onto them pre-emptively to out a suspected spy or releasing traps to arrange fatal accidents? (visitor looting is already quite popular)
- Are peddlers within worldgen as you might find wandering around more receptive to trading requests?
Its just that by sort of revealing that these less notable professions could be spies, you've unknowingly sealed their fate & doom as per dwarf fortress players acting on this information (though there's plenty of other professions to hide in) unless sportsmanship is the key and we allow the subterfuge to happen for emergent story development.
- Sort of like how players purposefully keep their value settings down to not attract sieges, and other metaknowledge strategies bourne out of knowing the system for the most part very well.
If we'll eventually be able to control any civilization, does that mean the game might be renamed once dwarves are no longer the central focus? Not that I have a problem at all with the current name, just something I'm curious about.Non-dwarf world's are coming right up and there's been no mention of Bay12 shooting themselves in the foot and throwing away a famous brand name. That just doesn't happen.
So I found out you could make adventure mode sites in caverns. Is it possible that when they are linked with civs in the upcoming update (if I am understanding things correctly, that's on the list of changes), you could make an underground tavern that people will visit?Nothing's been said about linking adventure sites to civs in the artifacts release. Would be nice to see visitors come to your taverns though (you can make a tavern in an adventurer site right now).
On another note, would visitors petition for residency in an adventurer-built site?
Will we be able to hire mercenaries from the tavern into our invasion squads? IE send goblin maceman off to attack nearby elf settlement? Also, will there be anyone coming to our fort specifically to join the invasion force, say we put out a rumour we're mustering an army?Mercs will be able to join squads (with no morals about who they attack, apparently).
If we'll eventually be able to control any civilization, does that mean the game might be renamed once dwarves are no longer the central focus? Not that I have a problem at all with the current name, just something I'm curious about.Non-dwarf world's are coming right up and there's been no mention of Bay12 shooting themselves in the foot and throwing away a famous brand name. That just doesn't happen.
You might have noticed that there's no Armok either (except in delusional fanlore) but the game's still called Slaves to Armok II.
Not much in the way of slaves either yet...
Can worldgen strange moods fail?Yes. With all the side-effects that implies.
Will artifact weapons and armour be used in martial pursuits?
I fail to see why they'd be any different from normal weapons&armor in that regard.QuoteWill artifact weapons and armour be used in martial pursuits?
And can artifact weapons and armours can be taken from corpses after a battle ?
I fail to see why they'd be any different from normal weapons&armor in that regard.QuoteWill artifact weapons and armour be used in martial pursuits?
And can artifact weapons and armours can be taken from corpses after a battle ?
Don't worry: good/evil areas will disappear in the arc after the upcoming one (to be replaced with something sphere based), i.e. in 1½-3 years.
In the A question about clouds of wicked soot (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167666.0) topic, PatrikLundell explained:Don't worry: good/evil areas will disappear in the arc after the upcoming one (to be replaced with something sphere based), i.e. in 1½-3 years.
My question: After this gets implemented, will players/dwarves eventually be able to pray to a deity and ask to change the sphere of a region to something else (such as to reflect the sphere of the deity being prayed to)?
For example: If a region where a dwarf fortress was founded upon is under, say, the Sphere of Death, would it be possible to plead with a deity your dwarves worship to change the sphere to something else?
There's always the additional implication that dwarves might just adapt to their new localised sphere and pick up some religious followers over time (second generation dwarves etc) though you might imagine that they would find settling onto spheres they are not familiar with or are at opposites with non-favourable unless they are forced by the player.
Its like saying a fire sphere nation settles on a glacier with ice/water spheres, magical and energywise its going to be messy & uncomfortable unless a co-existance/dominance is achieved.
Wheres the future of the fortress post, getting the chills, I need my monthly Toady fix really really badFuture of the Fortress reply is late this month. Says so on the devblog.
(1) Will the new diplomatic options/demands for artifacts be held in the throne room of the Fortress Ruler?
(2) Are there any plans for future permanent embassies of diplomats? Or any Noble interactions/events such as "coronation, banquets with foreign dignitaries, tournaments" etc?
...I know people enjoy having the freedom to settle anywhere they please, but it seems rather odd that you can choose to go to places where that your civilization (or any civilization, as the case may be) isn't even aware of the existence of, let alone has access to.
Toady's to-do list is a mile long and will occupy him for years to come. And you want the game to keep track of which areas a particular civilization does and does not know about in order for it to restrict players from embarking at an unexplored location?I'm not suggesting it's a priority, I'm well aware it isn't; Besides, this is a game that keeps track of way more minute things already, ones that are of far lower gameplay or immersion impact, except for the most narrative-oriented players. It's not the most far-fetched to expect something of that nature in a game that attempts to be as detailed of a simulation as it can.
But that's just it: Many players enjoy the freedom to settle (almost) anywhere. And if that was taken away, you better believe that many would complain about it.
Did Christopher Columbus know about two huge American continents thousands of miles away when he set out to discover a new trade route? And, yet, he was allowed to travel that direction and "discover" them. And now we hear this happened long after the Vikings had established settlements there and, possibly, after the Chinese had already made said discovery. Never mind that Native Americans had already immigrated to the Americas via an Ice Age land bridge.
The idea of dwarves (or any civilization) knowing something about a certain location on the opposite side of the world really isn't that far-fetched, if you think about it. The very fact that such locations are named indicates that members of some civilization had to have visited the place or heard about it from someone who has. I mean, look at how rumors are spread in Dwarf Fortress and how they can be used, already.
How would they know about the presence or lack of flux stone, clay or aquifers? Who's to say that dwarves don't send out a scouting party to prospective locations before actually embarking? Maybe they pay for information or hire mercenary prospectors?
More likely, dwarves know because they received this info from the deities they worship. In DF, deites and other supernatural beings actually exist and actually have a measurable impact on the world. Anyway, the player basically takes on the role of a deity guiding the dwarves. We don't have direct control of individual dwarves. We only guide them. Perhaps we should call it "deific omniscience"?
The real issue here is not the knowing of an exotic location far away. Rather, it is a matter of travel. That's the problem: The lack of boats. But then, this is supposed to be addressed eventually, right?
Toady's to-do list is a mile long and will occupy him for years to come. And you want the game to keep track of which areas a particular civilization does and does not know about in order for it to restrict players from embarking at an unexplored location?
...and if it was added I can see it being one of the many init options, like how aquifers are and sapper are apparently going to be so there would be no reason to complain anyway.
I could be wrong but I think pre-named regions are a place holder, once myth gen is in and region can change their sphere alignment then region will have to be re-nameable, doesn't make sense to call it the swamp of ducking muck if its been turned into a fiery hellscape now does it?
...so how do you know about the areas outside of these scouted lands?
If they get this info from the god then how? do prophets have visions? is it a ritual? if yes then whats involved in that ritual? and what about worlds without gods or magic, how do they know then?
NOTE: All of the above is based upon my opinion that DF is first and foremost a simulation and a game second...
...Will there be a possibility different AI settings for creatures that modders will be able to set in the raws on an individual creature's basis?
For example, zombies and very simple-minded animals would have a setting, lets call it "mindless", so they act like they currently do, charging mindlessly without utilizing advanced tactics, concern for their own safety and not taking advantage of combat opportunities or surroundings.
I haven't played before zombies were introduced (I started playing in 40.xx) but I remember them being really powerful even in that version - it seems mostly fixed now since they're pretty suicidal and have terrible combat rolls (though I wish it was controlled by a token instead of tied to the effects of animation - same for the "instant companion" thing also being controlled by the animation effect instead of a token)....Will there be a possibility different AI settings for creatures that modders will be able to set in the raws on an individual creature's basis?
For example, zombies and very simple-minded animals would have a setting, lets call it "mindless", so they act like they currently do, charging mindlessly without utilizing advanced tactics, concern for their own safety and not taking advantage of combat opportunities or surroundings.
IMO, that's a pretty good question. I remember when dead bodies and body parts being reanimated was still a new thing. And players were frustrated as embarking in evil biomes became suicide because zombies were not balanced well. They were not defined in the raws, though, so players had to wait patiently for an official fix.
Would also be good groundwork for some new types of magic, like some kind of mind-break spell that reduces a creature's AI by one - with enough applications turning, lets say, a normal human into a simple-minded "zombie". Or doing the opposite - making an animal gain sentience.A new explanation for the origin of animal men?
Could be - some random magician in a time before written history gave a bunch of animals sentience !!FOR SCIENCE!! and let them "evolve", resulting in animal people tribes.Would also be good groundwork for some new types of magic, like some kind of mind-break spell that reduces a creature's AI by one - with enough applications turning, lets say, a normal human into a simple-minded "zombie". Or doing the opposite - making an animal gain sentience.A new explanation for the origin of animal men?
A question I forgot to ask, inspired by some discussion on the Discord...Will there be a possibility different AI settings for creatures that modders will be able to set in the raws on an individual creature's basis?
Quote from: Colev0In worlds where gods/forces physically exist, would the death of a god eventually lead to rumors of their death, which itself would cause their followers to worship another god? Would priests working in temples devoted to that god change their profession upon learning of their god's death? Would temples dedicated to that god be destroyed, or would they be re-dedicated to another god?Quote from: KittyTacAddind to the above: Will creatures magically linked to the deities, possibly including priests, die/commit suicide?
I have a question about sending dwarves off-map in the next release.
Will I be able to get sieges from ANY distance? I mean, if I send out a squad to raid some goblin pits or a necro tower far away. Or steal some of their stuff. Piss em off and make them attack.
If yes, then hooray! I can just build my fort wherever I want to, and always be able to summon some !FUN!
Would the secondary load areas work like fort or adventure mode, meaning: do you move inside a square or will the map load chunks around an object that moves?
Since I am writing a book about dwarves right now, and music has a pretty big part in it, I had to ask:
Is there any possibility of clarifying the randomly generated musical instruments? So far if I want to build or buy some instruments, I have to go through a bit painful process of reading through what each instrument is and what it does. I mean, that is fun and kinda cool, but I would like it a lot if for example there was a (wind), or (string) tag in front of the random name. Would be much quicker and clearer in my opinion.
With the addition of expeditions, will you be able to send squads out to civs your at war with to negotiate a treaty?
Is it the state of war itself that will cancel your siege safety triggers, or just war caused directly by player meddling (squads)? Will that status carry over into your next fortress if you play the same civ (and the war hasn't yet been resolved)?
The first might make for some Fun embarks, and not completely unfair since you are warned in advance if you're at war with anyone.
1. In worlds with afterlives will there sometimes be ways for adventurers to return to the mortal world in some way? Maybe by possibly making a deal with a powerful entity?
2. If an adventurer gets possessed by an entity, for example a demon, if they are strong willed enough will they be able to share control of their body with the entity? Would they be able to talk with the entity and possibly be able come to a truce to share the body?
Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan1. While reading one of ThreeToe's old stories, I was struck by the fact that the setting of one story seemed to have a named moon (Eros, if I recall correctly). Any chance of celestial bodies eventually being given their own unique names beyond just basics like "Sun" and "Moon" in worldgen, or perhaps even being capable of generating worlds with multiple suns or moons, etc.? It would certainly add depth to the lore of individual worlds in my opinion.
2. If in adventure mode your character becomes a threat to a major civilization (for example if he/she becomes a master criminal, night creature, evil sorceror, maybe they've just killed a few too many important people with a lack of reason for such, etc.), will it eventually be possible for NPC heroes to be issued quests to destroy you? Like, let's say, one day you're just minding your own business in your necromancer tower and then suddenly BOOM: an adventuring party armed with weapons shows up at your doorstep and tries to kill you? The idea of finding yourself being the villain of someone else's story is certainly something I find intriguing.Quote from: squamousIf NPCs can go on quests now, could they be assigned a quest to kill you if you are an enemy of the civ they are in?
Will it be possible for powerful magic / godly entities to appear in the world with a certain goal in mind ? For example, entity X has the ability to animate corpses like your average necromancer, has divine equipment, vulnerable to Y substances / metals... and has the goal to Rule the World, and since it is really powerful, it will actually be a world threat and invade. I realise it might not be very balanced (might lead to world being invaded and destroyed in 100 years) but then we can always re-generate worlds as we please. Could also have other goals like building the biggest city / wonder, killing a certain family (avenging spirit ?), counter another powerful entity (Entity X appears / wakes up to invade the world with an army of undead, Entity Y appears to fight it back), make a demigod child with some king / lord...
Would be really nice as it would give mature worlds a big shake, maybe destroy some part of it so in an adventure playthrough you could witness the event itself, or perhaps the aftermath where civilizations slowly rebuild...
- If I play a macro to place 10 thrones and 10 tables, but only have 6 thrones, the macro stops completely instead of just bypassing that step and building all the remaining tables. Can you say offhand how difficult of a fix this would be?
- On a related note, have you considered adding a 'free build' mode for the purpose of macro recording ingame? Just a blank canvas where digging and building are instantaneous.
Quote from: PatrikLundell(regarding dev log on drunken wandering dwarf quester)
I hope this interesting twist also means we'll get the means to give our questers more nuanced orders (should we want to avoid the interesting consequences of literally following the original (too brief) orders).Quote from: JesterHell696My question is, do you have any intention of adding IF/THEN/ELSE statements to the orders that you give to Artifact retrieval squads, for example
IF Owner human THEN Diplomacy ELSE Steal
Is there a chance these parties we send may find something unexpected in their way? (ambushes by enemies or wild animals, bar fights, getting lost, etc)
Quote from: MoonstoneFaceWill heroes and adventurers ever have titles related to their achievements? For example, in one adventure mode world I killed about twenty buzzards. Could there be a thing where I become MoonstoneFace the Buzzard Killer/Slayer of Birds, and could that be added to generated heroes based on their achievements?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWould be nice to see a more dynamic system that connects titles closer with reputation. That way, different parts of the world would know you by different titles, which seems to be how it works in a lot of fantasy. With an attached title only coming in when your reputation throughout the world is firmly established. We're already starting to see indications of that with 'protector of the weak' and such.
With that awesome new devlog about the questing dwarf. In adventure mode Could I stalk an artifact quester to the dragons cave, without them noticing or maybe with a chance of being busted in the process, wait for them to retrieve it, then terminate them and get the glory for finding the artifact with no sequence breaks? Eg, can i follow them as they barhop directly and watch them walk into the cave or even see them sneak in and get the artifact?
What are the plans for crafting speeds of items? Making them more realistic would mean, for example, that good chain mail would take almost a season to make from a decent armourer. This would have quite a big impact on gameplay, not necessarily positive. Which one would you prefer in this case, realism or gameplay?
Currently the economy of dwarven forts resembles bronze age palace economies, which got me thinking: once monetary economy has been added back in and innovations affect gameplay, will the former require inventions to appear? So if you start a fort in a world where things like currency and private ownership haven't been invented yet, will the economy be like the current one where dwarves don't have personal wealth and share everything?
In adventure mode, will your character ever be able to call out a demon that's taken over a human civilization in the guise of a god (or, you know, any modded creature with the [POWER] token) as a false deity, in a similar way to how you can currently expose night creatures?
I (sort of) maintain one of the more popular embark profile packs, and there's something of a mad scramble to playtest/fix them with each release (Embark points changed? Stepladders? Asexual livestock? Wooden axes?)
Are there any changes in the coming release/fixes that obviously require changes in Embark Profiles?
Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
Quote from: KittyTacWill night trolls ever come to abduct dwarves in your fortress?I wrote a suggestion about this about the time Toady was working on the night creatures.I thought then it wouldn't be so hard as there were mechanics for abductions already.
Once the magic system gets implemented (I'm aware that's still a while coming), will players creating their own magic-powered technology for their forts be a possibility?
1. Will animal people and randomly generated races eventually get detailed facial and physique descriptions like humans, dwarves, elves, goblins etc.
2. If not how will law enforcement track the physical descriptions of animal people criminals without being suspicious of every animal person they see?
3. Will magic that disguises what you look like be possible in some worlds?
Do merchants notice/care if you try to sell them artifacts that belong to their civ? Do they recognise the diplomatic intent of offering them their artifacts for free (as opposed to free barrels of prepared meals for example which may well have a higher 'value')?
Once the justice system finds its way into adventure mode, will it be possible for your player character to start out as a prisoner?
Will the raws of procedurally generated creatures - titans, angels, forgotten beasts, etc. - eventually interact more with the other creature raws?
I noticed demons occasionally are made out of modded materials - would it be possible then to have procedurally generated creatures that derive from other files? I.e sometimes instead of an FB thats a "cat with three eyes and a tail" you'd have a giant gorlak made out of iron with horns, or a gargantuan dwarf with chitin instead of skin, eye stalks and antennae.
In your talk today, you started to talk about the major difficulties that you have to overcome and concluded that skipping another 1000 years after playing for a bit (returning to worldgen) is 'pretty hard'. I certainly think you're right in that lots of people want to see this someday, but is it something you think you're going to attempt one day or by 'hard' do you mean you just can't conceive of how you might even attempt such a thing?
Will we ever be able to name our adventuring parties, at least once they acquire enough members? Fellowship of Urist's Glorious Cheeses FTW!
I noticed that in the screenshots of the myth generator information pertaining to individuals of a particular race's fates, such as if they have free will, their fates are predetermined or if some other entity controls their fates. How will this translate into game play? For example if dwarves fates are predetermined to what extent is it predetermined? Are the destined to die a certain way or are their entire lives mapped out? Also how will this mesh with the player and their inevitable random actions in the event they play a member of that race in adventure mode?
I know they're not the focus of this particular release, but how are starting scenarios going to work as far as their availability goes - say, being determined based on some factors like current history and the needs/desires of your civ and its rulers (with some 'evergreen' scenarios that you can always pick, including some kind of "freeform" scenario that is basically what we have now, a party of seven coming together to venture out into the world and found a new home for themselves, as well as other scenarios that fall into a "there's always a need for this" category, such as a mining colony or roadside tavern), or is it going to be more like Cataclysm: DDA's "starting professions" where you can just pick whatever you fancy at any point, even if it might make relatively little sense (like a military outpost...for a civ that isn't at war with anyone)?
Basically, how much depth is there meant to be wrt the starting scenarios before you pick one, if that makes sense?
I know it's probably the worst way to word this kind of question (it's basically a suggestion wrapped under a paper-thin veil of a question at this point), but I haven't really seen too many mentions of how that part of the scenarios is going to work (although I will admit I haven't done much in terms of actively looking for it, so maybe that's on me).
So, prophets and prophecies are kind of intriguing. I understand they'll all be 'fake prophets' this time around (even the ones which aren't spies) but what do you have planned for their prophecies when they're not fake? Can the game predict the future? How does that work? I know you mentioned it in a talk at gdc, but I don't think I understood it...at all...
- With a understandable risk of being targeted for 'accidents' because the player knows its a dummy profession (or least a generic concealable one) do peddlers have any specific purpose to fortress mode to dissasuade players from calling a militia onto them pre-emptively to out a suspected spy or releasing traps to arrange fatal accidents? (visitor looting is already quite popular)
- Are peddlers within worldgen as you might find wandering around more receptive to trading requests?
Since there's already people being identified by descriptions with the new made up identities do you plan to eventually have artifacts spotted somewhere described by appearance if someone doesn't really know about it? I know you've played Caves of Qud and their artifacts need to be identified, but that game obviously doesn't have all the same tracking code DF does
As we'll be able to play as humans and other non-dwarven races in the future, I'd like to ask something about them. Will other races besides dwarves be able to live underground and dig as proficiently as dwarves? I don't think they should. Some big penalty to mining speed would do the trick and ensure players won't make underground fortresses with humans or whatever, and some health effect that is the opposite of cave adaptation (caused by entering underground after a long period of living above ground) would be nice as well.
What would happen if you sent two separate squads out after the same artifact, one right after the other? If the first squad successfully obtained the artifact, would the second squad try to violently or stealthily take it from the first squad in order to bring it back to the fortress themselves?
So I found out you could make adventure mode sites in caverns. Is it possible that when they are linked with civs in the upcoming update (if I am understanding things correctly, that's on the list of changes), you could make an underground tavern that people will visit?
On another note, would visitors petition for residency in an adventurer-built site?
If we'll eventually be able to control any civilization, does that mean the game might be renamed once dwarves are no longer the central focus? Not that I have a problem at all with the current name, just something I'm curious about.
With mythgen (and beyond) what do you see happening with the concept of 'natural enemies'?
Right now, at year 0, everyone hates goblins because they snatch babies and kobolds because they're thieves. Tags make it true for all time. Is that going to be more defined and mixed up during mythgen (dwarves hate humans naturally because in a time before time humans were created after their god betrayed the dwarven gods, etc)? Or are you thinking of phasing out tag-dictated natural enemies altogether and leaving it all to history (dwarf civ 1 and goblin civ 3 have been strong allies ever since a goblin adventurer recovered the dwarf civ 1's artifacts from a bunch of elves in the year 24. Dwarf civ 3 have never forgiven human civ 2 for the sacking of their capital in the year 4, etc).
Will we, as fortress overseers, be able to arbitrate the arrest of fortress visitors (with or without diplomatic penalties with whoever they're associated with), now that the risk of a siege worth of party-goers accumulating in the pub is now very real?
For future versions:
How conscious of transformative conditions do you think society ingame should be? For instance, would anyone attempt to perform experiments, inquisitions, worship, or otherwise hold study topics about werewolfism or some other manner of syndrome?
Do you think societal interactions with conditions like these should be handled heuristically (takes social values of race and compares them to the effects of the syndrome/transformation in question) or dictatively (Specific tags in syndrome and/or civ/value system raws that allow one to directly set how a community generated from those raws would likely respond to the condition)?
Quote from: Fleeting FramesWill artifact weapons and armour be used in martial pursuits?
Will named food items be eaten?Quote from: InariusAnd can artifact weapons and armours can be taken from corpses after a battle ?
After this gets implemented, will players/dwarves eventually be able to pray to a deity and ask to change the sphere of a region to something else (such as to reflect the sphere of the deity being prayed to)?
Kind of an odd question, but will there eventually be an option to have creature names remain untranslated - and also in that case, have a chance for the second word of their last name to be omitted?
I.e instead of Kogan Oddomzangin (would normally mean Cloistercreek) it'd just be shortened to Kogan Oddom, remaining untranslated when speaking to the dwarf.
I often use the word sets I generate for DF with external applications for settings and characters I write - it'd be a neat feature immersion-wise; it may be personal preference but I notice the names would roll of the tongue better
if they were left untranslated and kept to only single words for the name and last name.
Will there ever be limits with regards to areas in which you can embark, beyond the obvious "literally can't embark here because it's the middle of the damn sea"? I know people enjoy having the freedom to settle anywhere they please, but it seems rather odd that you can choose to go to places where that your civilization (or any civilization, as the case may be) isn't even aware of the existence of, let alone has access to.
A question I forgot to ask, inspired by some discussion on the Discord...Will there be a possibility different AI settings for creatures that modders will be able to set in the raws on an individual creature's basis?
For example, zombies and very simple-minded animals would have a setting, lets call it "mindless", so they act like they currently do, charging mindlessly without utilizing advanced tactics, concern for their own safety and not taking advantage of combat opportunities or surroundings.
On the other hand, humans, dwarves, and other intelligent humanoids would have a setting, lets call it "intelligent humanoid", so that they wouldn't mindlessly charge, instead changing up tactics depending on the opponent and taking opportunities - i.e against dragons and other firebreathers they'd spread out instead of clustering together, or against giant enemies you'd have several units grabbing onto their legs to keep the opponent distracted while others actually do damage; alternatively the melee weapon users would cluster around the giant to keep them from going anywhere and mostly staying on the defense, while the archers would keep their distance and pelt the enemy with arrows.
I understand there'd be a LOT more nuance to it (how armored the enemy/allies are, distance, possibility of picking up weapons if disarmed, wheter surrounding area has potentially deadly drops, personality of the individual creature - I can imagine an individual with high cruelty would needlessly prolong the death of their foe, whereas an individual with high bravery would be more likely to perform reckless charges against much stronger/tougher opponents even if its not to their advantage, etc.) and that it'd take a long time to actually get working to even a basic degree - I'm just wondering if its a possibility at any point in the future of the development.
When it comes time to add secondary loaded areas, do you have any plans to multithread them?Rather than posting here, you should probably add to one of the many threads that discuss the exact complexity of multi-threading dwarf fortress and say why you think specifically this part should be multi-threaded, as opposed to any other, along with the exact benefits, comparitive ease of implementation, etc. And then make a suggestion on the suggestion board.
Dunno if there's named food, unless that's a bug.There's an old story about hauler getting interrupted and fighting/killing so much with a cheese they name it.
Quote from: Stagnant SoulWill we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it. And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.
Quote from: Toady OneQuote from: Stagnant SoulWill we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it. And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.
Something about this gives me 'Stargate' esque vibes of two immediate places being immediately or short term connected over long distance, also ambiguity for what might be on the other side at any given time without someone poking their head around to scout.
- I don't mean to press for details about something that at the given time is a twinkle in your eyes, but are portals static constructions or wizard dependant temporary arcane constructs?
Why would it be limited to one?
"Ever" is a long time. When two way portals come along it ought to eventually be possible to have activities on both sides at the same time, which might be called "two fortresses" or "one fortress with activities split over several locations". Two actual fortresses (i.e. two embarks, etc) is unlikely, but would rather end up as a new civ level game mode where fortresses aren't controlled in detail (however that would work, if it gets implemented). I doubt sufficiently many people would want to control multiple embarks in parallel at the current level of detail for Toady to find it worth the trouble to implement it.
In some sense, "gameplay", whatever that means, must always win. But it becomes a blurry concept with realism when you think of different moods you could be going for, and we vaguely slant realistic most of the time.
Adv mode is easier for me, since realistic times are easier to default to. The fortress feels like it needs to remain a world participant, even if that involves fudging.
WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.Same. I like using my imagination to decide what things really look like (same reason I find reading more fun than watching movies).
WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.
WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.Text based graphics is a fairly established form of expression nowadays. While I don't know what Toady eventually plans, it would be sufficient for a 'graphics overhaul' just to add comprehensive support for adding graphics, larger and multiple tilesets, color customization, etc. Anything more would surely just limit the game.
Can you take on the identity of another character? If I were to kill a king, dress as them and dispose of their body will I be able to inherit their position?Not yet. He covered that in the stream yesterday.
Can you take on the identity of another character? If I were to kill a king, dress as them and dispose of their body will I be able to inherit their position?Not yet. He covered that in the stream yesterday.
https://youtu.be/t2LEr7Etf9s
Ha ha, yeah, it's a hard problem, but certainly a simple timed event (like the world being bathed in fire in the year 500) is easy enough to manage. The harder part is more like conditional prophecies, or the fate of a given character hinging on this or that nebulous state.
2. Right now we have multiple souls supported for creatures (it's just not used), and there's an "active soul" that gets to control everything. Smearing that out on a limited basis might end up being in the cards, especially as we get into spell effects like "possession" etc. Hard to say exactly what though.
WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.Same. I like using my imagination to decide what things really look like (same reason I find reading more fun than watching movies).
Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it. And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.How possible with current systems are overlapping sites?
Not possible in vanilla (but you can embark over an adventurer site), possible with Dfhack.Quote from: StagnantSoulWill we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it. And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.How possible with current systems are overlapping sites?
Like ability to embark on 1x2 area that already includes two 1x1 forts. Or even to create fort C on 1x2 area that includes right end of 1x5 fort A and left upper corner part of 2x3 fort B? Or making new 1x2 fort inside bigger 3x4 one? Probably all map tiles of new fort will need to be either empty or belonging to (ruins of?) forts of your civ.
I haven't checked whether you can embark (partially) on top of player created fortresses.
I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods intousefull idiotswilling subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
Well that sounds like fun, maybe resummon a wizard kept in the afterlife back into the living realm by doing a soul-swap with the wizzes skills, memories and conciousness taking over the host.
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods intousefull idiotswilling subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
What sorts of skills will be needed for magic? Or will that be combined with other skils depending on the myth generated and the magical task or item used.I would assume one way would be a bit like musical forms. General magic skills + proficiency for spell types.
There's one from several years ago: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139278.0Oh crap. Link to the experiments?Sadly not. I searched the forums but i cant find it since it was a few months back.
Like I said: Imagine whatever non-simulated scenario you think fits best. Myself, I think it makes perfect sense that Dwarves know about distant lands through deities they worship, with the player taking on the role of one.
There have been several simulation games published over the years in which the player takes on the role of a god. Populous and Black & White are just two examples. How does the deity that the player represents convey their wishes to their followers? I don't believe such games simulate that. And I really don't think players care. "It's F'n Magic" is as good an excuse as any. I think it's safe to say that most players either don't dwell on it or they use their imagination.
Is it a simulation first and a game second? Has Toady answered this question before? If not, that's a good question to ask. If being a simulation is more important than being a game, does this mean that playability is to be sacrificed for the sake of making a more realistic simulation?
In some sense, "gameplay", whatever that means, must always win. But it becomes a blurry concept with realism when you think of different moods you could be going for, and we vaguely slant realistic most of the time.
Well I was wrong, which is not that surprising really, but I know that if personal quantum computers where available I'd want the individual grains of sand to be simulated, that would be detailed and awesome.
@JesterHell696: I think you've got the wrong impression of what quantum computers are. They're not insanely powerful versions of the current von Neumann computers, but more akin to array processors or graphics processors, i.e. devices very good at a limited set of tasks (such as rendering the current financial network's encryption almost totally useless as protection against an attack against any selected individual transactions, but not all at once, for instance, assuming the attacker has access to such computers, of course). The analogy isn't quite accurate, as the domain in which quantum computers shine is one where current computers curl up in a ball and cry, rather than just one or two orders of magnitude faster (NP complete problems, in math terminology). A quantum co-processor would e.g. be handy for path finding (but you'd still have to write a special program for the co-processor), as it should be possible to compute the actual cheapest path for dorfs according to the penalties applied in little time. Alas, quantum co-processors for private use are probably a very long way off.
I don't see any reason for why gods couldn't generate units to store their (newly generated) souls should the need arise. This could happen either as a result of a game event, or as a general change to DF so gods would always have a unit just in case. Soul containing artifacts would presumably have to be units as well.Oh crap. Link to the experiments?I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods intousefull idiotswilling subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
No idea, since souls are only stored in units and gods don't have units (i.e. gods don't have souls).
I don't see any reason for why gods couldn't generate units to store their (newly generated) souls should the need arise. This could happen either as a result of a game event, or as a general change to DF so gods would always have a unit just in case. Soul containing artifacts would presumably have to be units as well.Oh crap. Link to the experiments?I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods intousefull idiotswilling subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
No idea, since souls are only stored in units and gods don't have units (i.e. gods don't have souls).
Because animals can be set to be a internal supply of a civ, does this mean that the beastiary will open to be expanded because the pressure is taken off worldgeneration and [COMMON_DOMESTIC] tags to supply animals, and we will see more examples & variations of animals as a result?
...rabbit the size of a badger specially bred (animal husbandry experiment)...
With the new off-map squads, will we ever see a construction-oriented version of them? Say, a construction crew to build a road to the mountainhome, or an aqueduct, or a series of watchtowers and distress beacons?
I have a good feeling about all this. I think we are close to the next release ! :)
DF2018 sooooon? :3
Closer to 2018 if you're waiting for something half-way "stable" (in the DF sense of the word).DF2018 sooooon? :3
Might be 2017. Depends.
Closer to 2018 if you're waiting for something half-way "stable" (in the DF sense of the word).DF2018 sooooon? :3
Might be 2017. Depends.
Closer to 2018 if you're waiting for something half-way "stable" (in the DF sense of the word).DF2018 sooooon? :3
Might be 2017. Depends.
Well anyway, looks pretty certain that it'll be end of October/start of November. No mention of delays in today's report. So that's good.Closer to 2018 if you're waiting for something half-way "stable" (in the DF sense of the word).DF2018 sooooon? :3
Might be 2017. Depends.
It's mostly just me joking about the fact we're already past the semptember estimate for next update, and before I've also joked, close to the 1-year anniversary of last update, that I'd be happy to see the update actually hit in this year.
In the October 13th dev-log, you mention invaders getting spooked and going on a rampage. Is there any way to keep in the getting spooked part and just have them run away? I think releasing captive animals near the demanding invaders to scare them off would be an awesome way to deal with them.I imagine they'll kill them all, same as they do right now. The only difference being that it won't make them automatically forget negotiations and become hostile to everyone in your fortress.
Interesting. Would the preemptive response be to attack them using current stopgaps be military, or organize unfortunate accidents for them? Until the Justice system is fleshed out, that is.Quote from: iceball3Will we, as fortress overseers, be able to arbitrate the arrest of fortress visitors (with or without diplomatic penalties with whoever they're associated with), now that the risk of a siege worth of party-goers accumulating in the pub is now very real?
Haven't done anything with this yet, and not really sure how much that'll come up until we understand the justice system a bit better.
Hi Toady! In next release you will add a feature to send a squads off the map for stole/return artifact. Will you add ability to attack enemy's sites? I just look forward to this opportunity
We have little missions for groups of squads, and they can leave the map now. The current possibilities are rescue missions for kidnap victims, artifact recovery missions, and generic raids if you just want to start trouble. There are myriad issues to sort out, as expected. I'll let you know if anything amusing happens!
And, just recently announced, you can send squads to rescue other kinds of prisoners too. Including the survivors of your own failed squad raids.Hi Toady! In next release you will add a feature to send a squads off the map for stole/return artifact. Will you add ability to attack enemy's sites? I just look forward to this opportunity
Unless I missed something, it looks like there are currently 3 missions available for squads sent out in to the world.Quote from: Devlog 03/18/2017We have little missions for groups of squads, and they can leave the map now. The current possibilities are rescue missions for kidnap victims, artifact recovery missions, and generic raids if you just want to start trouble. There are myriad issues to sort out, as expected. I'll let you know if anything amusing happens!
So, you should be able to do a raid and start trouble. Trying to conquer a site for your civ, however, is not currently available.
Also, if you want Toady to see your questions, high-light them lime green. Welcome to the boards.
Are the new kobold sites an actual new site, or is everyone living in a cave going to have egg chambers?
1. Will we be getting an overhaul of the calendar, with procedurally generated per-word calendar systems? By this I mean two things - both the mechanics of time passage themself(for example worlds where seasons last several years, perhaps even decades, like ASOIAF, among the more mundane options) and the recording of the passage of time by sapient beings(e.g. a different number of months in a year, the division of time into "eras"(like in the TES universe), an explanation of when year 1 starts(where applicable), etc.)
2. How will spellbooks work? They're a staple of high fantasy and they'll obviously be included, but I see some problems with how to make them both fun and having them make sense. More specifically:
a) How will the generator handle the writing of spellbooks? Obviously this would require mages experimenting during worldgen and then writing their discoveries down, but how specifically are they going to experiment? A human might be able to see potentially interesting venues of further investigation, but how would a computer handle this?
b) Are spellbooks planned to be the one-spell-per-book variety, or the all-encompassing tomes with a bunch of spells contained? The first would be more fun(since it would require more exploration and learning new spells would be more rewarding) but would make far less sense(why, exactly, would a 2 step spell require an entire book about it?) while the second would be the other way around.
c) What would prevent worldgen mages from cluttering the world with 3000 books about the exact same spell?
d) What would prevent worldgen mages from simply discovering every spell there is on older worlds?
e) What would prevent spellbooks going around the world in massive numbers and making everyone a mage over time? If my character can read, what prevents me from simply learning a spell even if I'm not a mage(excluding spells that have prerequests, such as a bloodline or a faith in a god)?
f) Will there be spellbooks less about practical spells and more about interesting experiments that could further one's deeper understanding of the magic system?
Hope that isn't too much.
1. Will we be getting an overhaul of the calendar, with procedurally generated per-word calendar systems? By this I mean two things - both the mechanics of time passage themself(for example worlds where seasons last several years, perhaps even decades, like ASOIAF, among the more mundane options) and the recording of the passage of time by sapient beings(e.g. a different number of months in a year, the division of time into "eras"(like in the TES universe), an explanation of when year 1 starts(where applicable), etc.)Well, firstly you're asking about the NEXT arc, not the one whose first release is nearing, so things are still quite a bit up in the air.
2. How will spellbooks work? They're a staple of high fantasy and they'll obviously be included, but I see some problems with how to make them both fun and having them make sense. More specifically:
a) How will the generator handle the writing of spellbooks? Obviously this would require mages experimenting during worldgen and then writing their discoveries down, but how specifically are they going to experiment? A human might be able to see potentially interesting venues of further investigation, but how would a computer handle this?
b) Are spellbooks planned to be the one-spell-per-book variety, or the all-encompassing tomes with a bunch of spells contained? The first would be more fun(since it would require more exploration and learning new spells would be more rewarding) but would make far less sense(why, exactly, would a 2 step spell require an entire book about it?) while the second would be the other way around.
c) What would prevent worldgen mages from cluttering the world with 3000 books about the exact same spell?
d) What would prevent worldgen mages from simply discovering every spell there is on older worlds?
e) What would prevent spellbooks going around the world in massive numbers and making everyone a mage over time? If my character can read, what prevents me from simply learning a spell even if I'm not a mage(excluding spells that have prerequests, such as a bloodline or a faith in a god)?
f) Will there be spellbooks less about practical spells and more about interesting experiments that could further one's deeper understanding of the magic system?
Hope that isn't too much.
Hello from Russian community of this game! Thank you for your work! We have some questions about this game:
Phoenix writes:
Question about magic release: will there be different types of magic?
What is the Manifestation, mentioned in the devlog?I'm not sure where it was mentioned (I could have sworn it was a devlog, but apparently not), but its a debug tool-created creature.
Hello from Russian community of this game! Thank you for your work! We have some questions about this game:Здравствуйте
Phoenix writes:
Question about magic release: will there be different types of magic?
Maxim Matvienco asks:
It seems like genetics is disable in current releases. If there are any plans of reworking it in nearest future? Would be nice to see some appearance tuples disabling/decreasing probablity of strange appearance combinations (something like black skin and copper hair). What about appearance prefrences? We already have favourite food, metals and animals, but no favorite eyes color etc. In other hand, standarts of beauty can be generated for each civilization separately during worldgen.
Second question: should we expect practical applying of scholar skills? Maybe something like discovereing "technological" secrets. For example: Optical engineer discovered secret of mirror or lense-making, which alows us to create them in glassmakers worksop (or u can just disable some already existing reations by default, so we require to discover them first)
Sergei Rybakov writes:
Are you planning to add ability to make cooperation for musicians in to musical groups, who will organize concerts and world group-tours? Will you add ability to sell fighters/mercenaries for short time? Are you planning to rise criminals among dwarves (vandalism, stealing, murdering, etc.)? Will you add poison plants, which can be identified by experienced planter (with small chance to no-distinction, of course)? Will you make sport competitions?
How far off do think you are from a combat system upgrade? There's a long list of things I've always wanted, like archer dwarves carrying side-arms, throwing weapons like javelin or shuriken, AI for multiple types of ranged weapons, AI not jumping off walls, hooked weapons, weapons that are good or bad at parrying, tip/base balance calculation, spiked shields, helmets that cover the face, gunpowder/explosives, construction-destroying siegers. It's a lot of realistic stuff that I assume you want to do at some point, I'm curious how far away that kind of thing is on your to-do list.
Why do underground plants have seasonal limitations, and aboveground plants don't?I agree it's a Past of the Fortress question...
Why do underground plants have seasonal limitations, and aboveground plants don't?
Quote from: MephansterasOn a related question about plants: Are there plans to go through and give the various aboveground plants more realistic seasons and growth durations, as well as reasonable harvest seasons for things like fruit?
Right now they're all pretty much set for any season with short growth durations that allow you to get a crop every season (or more), while the underground plants all have seasons, which doesn't make much sense.
Yeah, I'd like to have the seasons be correct, where seasons even exist, and the biomes are also too non-specific in most cases. Right now it's a combination of research/data-entry time combined with not having farming finalized and so worrying about wasting mine (or anybody's) time entering info. I haven't gotten close enough to tackling farming think about how the plant issue is going to be handled.
What is the Manifestation, mentioned in the devlog?I'm not sure where it was mentioned (I could have sworn it was a devlog, but apparently not), but its a debug tool-created creature.
Outside of being a dev-tool, might it be probable that we see the manifestation-esque beings incarnated into the mainframe of the mythgenerator's resulting creatures & entities?Manifestation. A short, cursor shaped being with blatant disregard for clothing.
Indeed, a physical personification of a force, being or concept.
Once you've revamped economy and agriculture and allowed player fortresses to interact with hill dwarves, (way, way down the line, I know, but it's in the dev.html page anyways), will the player be able to sustain themselves with food anymore or will they need to rely on hill dwarves if they wish to have a decently sized fort?The caverns are full of underground crops too. You can see them if you wander around down there. Presumably to be worked by Deep Dwarves.
In the history real world, before the agricultural revoltuion, a family needed about 3 hectares to sustain itself and 5 hectares if it kept animals. Obviously DF worlds are far too small for this degree of realism, but the point still is that a lot of land is needed for agriculture. Fort maps tend to encompass only 9 tiles and thus shouldn't have enough land to sustain too many dwarves. So will the player be reliant on hill dwarves for food? I'm rather curious about this.
What is the Manifestation, mentioned in the devlog?I'm not sure where it was mentioned (I could have sworn it was a devlog, but apparently not), but its a debug tool-created creature.
This tweet? (https://twitter.com/Bay12Games/status/783103504982302721)
Outside of being a dev-tool, might it be probable that we see the manifestation-esque beings incarnated into the mainframe of the mythgenerator's resulting creatures & entities?Avatars and the like have become a bit of a fantasy game staple, so chances are good. In one of the DF Talks, Toady mentioned a divine avatar joining you on the quest - a bit tongue-in-cheek - but it's on his radar.
Indeed, a physical personification of a force, being or concept.
Further involvement of deity-level beings and their servants in mortal affairs
Basic divine law as a precursor to law framework
Manifestation and even integration with civilizations in high-magic settings
Conflicts between deities or the confused/imperfect agents of a single deity
What is The Manifestation lore?In a time between times, the Creator devised the Manifestation so to better observe his Works.
Will partida going outside the fortress be able to do more mundane stuff like huntting/gathering and logging? That would allow thigs like embarking no a mountain (as it is rigth now) possible.Not in the next update, no.
Is it possible the magic arc will include the offensive use of potions/extracts like the fire snake's liquid fire, or would such weapons be more likely to be addressed in a different arc?
I think the expectation of this question is that, if potions are introduced, the ai will be programmed to know how to use then. Not much point in introducing them otherwise.Is it possible the magic arc will include the offensive use of potions/extracts like the fire snake's liquid fire, or would such weapons be more likely to be addressed in a different arc?
Potions in general are a tricky thing cause the AI has no real idea how to use them correctly. There were suggestions of usage tags but even those fall short especialy if you create new potions via modding or on the fly.
Have you had any thoughts about integrating migrants into the petition system? (Ideally prior to the Scenarios release...) I'm imagining something similar to the mercenary, except instead of being able to assign to a squad but no labors it would be the opposite; you could assign labors to a migrant resident but not to a squad or positions (or maybe it would be useful to add a token to the raws for positions that can/can't be taken by non-citizens.)- The first section is squarely a suggestion and belongs in the suggestion sub forum. I don't see anything that would prompt changes to migrants prior to starting scenarios, though (but I don't see Toady's whims and side projects...). If Toady starts discussing suggestions in this thread it will rapidly be derailed into a Suggestion Discussion with the Dev thread.
More petition related topics; can we expect to see more information in the petition screen? Currently all we get is a name, which is pretty underwhelming. I always end up having to leave the screen, find the character in the units tab and check them out there, then return to the petition screen. Would be great to see skills and relationships before accepting residency.
Do relatives of citizens/migrants have a higher chance of immigrating than unrelated characters? It kinda sucks when your fortress can't have any children because all of its residents are married to off-site characters. Thanks!
what is the problem with clothing that prevents the implementation of mixed populations in fortress modeProbably needs a lot more detail if you're expecting some kind of answer (and lime green text).
Will the unfinished stuff you ran out of time to implement fully be implemented in the bugfix mini-releases following this one?
WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.
- I don't mean to press for details about something that at the given time is a twinkle in your eyes, but are portals static constructions or wizard dependant temporary arcane constructs?
- Besides from nasties that might arise from going outside your existing plane, will there be any immediate danger in regards to world armies coming through the portals if they own the immediate site on the other side? (Goblin occupation for instance, see you're on the other side of the portal and instead decide to send a army right on through to you rather than walk the long distance to the overworld because you're nearer than everywhere else)
And finally
- Are portals likely to become secret generation features to be found after being placed in worldgen?
Goblins are good at lying anyway as its actually on one of thier civ values that is frequently levelled up in skills that may generate potential pleasure, but would it be possible to "break" a spy on the opposite end of the personal individuals spectrum (Lying = Truth values) as a goal - past the currently impending update (at a later date if the system recieves more work to tie up loose ends described in the talk that are partially completed) - by exploiting a individual with high truth values who sincerely dislikes lying but is pushed into the role anyway by the selection algorithms.
I watched your talk on YouTube, and it seems like a lot of the systems in Dwarf Fortress are limited by the fact that computers have a limited amount of RAM.
What limitation of Dwarf Fortress itself has caused you the most trouble?
This is only a TECHNICAL question (cause recent modding topics) and not because of Politics or whatever: Is the Gender of a being defined within the soul or is it defined by the bodies sex? In Fantasy there allready Genderbender scenarios - for example loki turning into female being. Also the orinetation is stored in the soul right? Would a fem soul in a Male body have bad thoughts?
If a goblin disguised as a human (probably lots of tan paint, I guess) steals from the elves, and a human hears about it and approves, then later finds out it was really a goblin, will the human get a better opinion of the goblins?
How possible with current systems are overlapping sites?
Like ability to embark on 1x2 area that already includes two 1x1 forts. Or even to create fort C on 1x2 area that includes right end of 1x5 fort A and left upper corner part of 2x3 fort B? Or making new 1x2 fort inside bigger 3x4 one? Probably all map tiles of new fort will need to be either empty or belonging to (ruins of?) forts of your civ.
I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
What sorts of skills will be needed for magic? Or will that be combined with other skils depending on the myth generated and the magical task or item used.
Because animals can be set to be a internal supply of a civ, does this mean that the beastiary will open to be expanded because the pressure is taken off worldgeneration and [COMMON_DOMESTIC] tags to supply animals, and we will see more examples & variations of animals as a result?
Are these new display rack items going to be available to construct and place in adventure mode? If so, is it handled via hardcoded additions to the code, or will some raw handling of tool-based furniture for adventure mode be implemented? If the latter, I can see that being potentially useful for modding.
With the new off-map squads, will we ever see a construction-oriented version of them? Say, a construction crew to build a road to the mountainhome, or an aqueduct, or a series of watchtowers and distress beacons?
1. In some of the myth generator screen shots it was shown that some races might be reborn into new bodies after they die. If a player adventurer died while playing as one of these races would they get to play as the reborn creature? In cases where the race in question is reborn as a non sentient creature would player adventurers get to play as that animal?
2. I also noticed in some of the myth generator screen shots certain races will be able to have their souls merge with cosmic entities. In terms of afterlife game play, what would this entail for a player adventurer of such a race who qualifies for this specific afterlife?
3. If a magical organization gets big enough, would other means or training new magic users besides apprenticeships be possible? For example could 1 skilled magic user teach an entire class of fresh prospects? Also how big could the structures in which these magical organizations reside get?
4. In the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be both corruption affects that affect the whole body and localized corruption that affects one body part at a time and slowly spreads or just one or the other? If just one which? Finally will there be a special UI for viewing corruptions or will they be viewable by viewing your physical description?
In the October 13th dev-log, you mention invaders getting spooked and going on a rampage. Is there any way to keep in the getting spooked part and just have them run away? I think releasing captive animals near the demanding invaders to scare them off would be an awesome way to deal with them.
Interesting. Would the preemptive response be to attack [agents in your fort] using current stopgaps be military, or organize unfortunate accidents for them? Until the Justice system is fleshed out, that is.
In the event that we kill a suspect individual, do diplomatic repercussions affect relations with entities by the victim's cover identity, or their real identity?
Will magical artifacts give Dwarves (and others who use them) extra attacks, such as fire jets and syndrome inducing stuff? And would it be removed if a dwarf removed the item?
Are the new kobold sites an actual new site, or is everyone living in a cave going to have egg chambers?
Once mythgen comes around, can we expect engravings and sculptures to depict images from the myths of their particular world on occasion (especially the ones in temples)?
Will the spoils of war and enemy materiel be recovered from raids, or are they merely a "civ angering" action and little else?
1. Will we be getting an overhaul of the calendar, with procedurally generated per-word calendar systems? By this I mean two things - both the mechanics of time passage themself(for example worlds where seasons last several years, perhaps even decades, like ASOIAF, among the more mundane options) and the recording of the passage of time by sapient beings(e.g. a different number of months in a year, the division of time into "eras"(like in the TES universe), an explanation of when year 1 starts(where applicable), etc.)
2. How will the generator handle the writing of spellbooks? Obviously this would require mages experimenting during worldgen and then writing their discoveries down, but how specifically are they going to experiment? A human might be able to see potentially interesting venues of further investigation, but how would a computer handle this?
Hello from Russian community of this game! Thank you for your work! We have some questions about this game:
Maxim Matvienco asks:
It seems like genetics is disable in current releases. If there are any plans of reworking it in nearest future? Would be nice to see some appearance tuples disabling/decreasing probablity of strange appearance combinations (something like black skin and copper hair). What about appearance prefrences? We already have favourite food, metals and animals, but no favorite eyes color etc. In other hand, standarts of beauty can be generated for each civilization separately during worldgen.
Second question: should we expect practical applying of scholar skills? Maybe something like discovereing "technological" secrets. For example: Optical engineer discovered secret of mirror or lense-making, which alows us to create them in glassmakers worksop (or u can just disable some already existing reations by default, so we require to discover them first)
Sergei Rybakov writes:
Are you planning to add ability to make cooperation for musicians in to musical groups, who will organize concerts and world group-tours? Will you add ability to sell fighters/mercenaries for short time? Are you planning to rise criminals among dwarves (vandalism, stealing, murdering, etc.)?
Will you add poison plants, which can be identified by experienced planter (with small chance to no-distinction, of course)? Will you make sport competitions?
How far off do think you are from a combat system upgrade? There's a long list of things I've always wanted, like archer dwarves carrying side-arms, throwing weapons like javelin or shuriken, AI for multiple types of ranged weapons, AI not jumping off walls, hooked weapons, weapons that are good or bad at parrying, tip/base balance calculation, spiked shields, helmets that cover the face, gunpowder/explosives, construction-destroying siegers. It's a lot of realistic stuff that I assume you want to do at some point, I'm curious how far away that kind of thing is on your to-do list.
Once you've revamped economy and agriculture and allowed player fortresses to interact with hill dwarves, (way, way down the line, I know, but it's in the dev.html page anyways), will the player be able to sustain themselves with food anymore or will they need to rely on hill dwarves if they wish to have a decently sized fort?
In the history real world, before the agricultural revoltuion, a family needed about 3 hectares to sustain itself and 5 hectares if it kept animals. Obviously DF worlds are far too small for this degree of realism, but the point still is that a lot of land is needed for agriculture. Fort maps tend to encompass only 9 tiles and thus shouldn't have enough land to sustain too many dwarves. So will the player be reliant on hill dwarves for food? I'm rather curious about this.
What is The Manifestation lore?
Is it possible the magic arc will include the offensive use of potions/extracts like the fire snake's liquid fire, or would such weapons be more likely to be addressed in a different arc?
Would the moving fortress part/boat arc also lay the groundwork for proper carts/wagons and invader siege engines (wheeled towers and battering rams in particular)?
How much do you aim to have the economics of generated or modded materials, objects, plants, animals, etc influence worldgen and general economic performance of civilizations and their sites?
In the event that it's significantly influential, how do you think edge cases will be handled, such as a random crop that makes society post scarcity for practical purposes, for example? This question would apply to any content, particularly randomly generated, that would fundamentally alter the balance away from the medieval-low-medium-fantasy we've been working with from the start.
I guess it's not part of the upcoming release, but in addition to 'recorded kills' as they have now, will artifact weapons ever gain 'reputation' by themselves? In other words, I get that naming my lute won't make it an object of desire for npcs, but if I go on to kill a bunch of hydras with it, could that change?
Do relatives of citizens/migrants have a higher chance of immigrating than unrelated characters? It kinda sucks when your fortress can't have any children because all of its residents are married to off-site characters. Thanks!
For the second, if it is something in particular you want, Kisat Dur is closest currently, though it's 30+ pages are players teaching players rather than NPCs. Though, yeah, procedural magic means teachers and unique uses.
For the third example, I think as far as past years go one would have some struggle thinking of added features that don't take hours to explore the possibilities. My first thought would be that weeks or months would work better as time unit, but I've got the feeling that merely spending long time on something isn't what you mean on minigame, which I imagine to be something more self-contained.
Hi! First time posting here.
I heard there will be transformation and polymorph sort of stuff
1: Will there be new skills to accommodate unique abilities associated with transformations? Like, if I gain the magical ability to turn into a poison-spitting snake, will I be able to, with practice, become a Spitmaster or something? Can I become a master flier if I turn into a bird and practice for a long time?
Will there be different methods of transforming, with different results? Examples:
- Can I turn into an anthropomorphic wolf, with some of my usual appearance traits and can be recognized as me but also a tail, and scent powers, and a bite attack-- Wolfman style. Or:
- Can I turn into a wolf, but I retain the ability to speak, and no one can tell me from a normal wolf unless I say something. Or:
- Can I turn someone into a newt, leaving them no less intelligent, but unable to do things newts physically can't do, like talk and use magic that doesn't involve speaking or movements newts can't do? Or:
- Can I turn them into a newt, with all the physical and mental repercussions thereof, leaving them helpless unless someone changes them back?
With all the wealth of procedurally generated content and simulations that make it all work together in meaningful ways, do you foresee various aspects of Dwarf Fortress becoming interesting enough to be a (mini-)game in itself?
Examples:
For the economic aspect, a fantasy trading game where the player can go from town to town, buy cheap and sell high, buy wagons or ships to move more stuff, eventually create a trading empire that has to deal with world politics rather than bandits.
For the combat aspect, a martial arts game where the player can learn various moves and techniques, fight other warriors who might use different schools, seek out masters to learn new ways to fight.
Similarly for all sort of magic/art/cooking/crafting, do you foresee these becoming interesting enough at some point that a player might simply spend hours exploring the possibilities? Wandering the game world following leads and rumors to find new masters or schools to learn from or challenge, perhaps even have deities teach them some seriously awesome stuff.
I might be wrong, but I think there's currently a gender variable both in the soul and the body. But we haven't really addressed what differences mean, since it doesn't generate trans people (if that's the right model for it), and there are no soul swapping spells. I don't think it's a straightforward implementation, overall -- trans characters in games generally lean on the fact that their in-game societies also have strong gender norms, which we don't have in DF to any meaningful degree (eg, gender-restricted clothing etc.). There's a sort of trans-erasing assertion sitting there, which is bad (ie, it asserts trans people don't exist without such norms), but I think it's complicated to sort out the way things are structured, and I don't have a clear road forward (eg, how do we handle pronouns in the heterogeneous body/soul case without it looking like a simple bug to report -- the character needs a larger world model within which to state their identity). The first chance we'd have is with the status groups after the myth release, though basic soul swapping/stacking/merging/etc might happen earlier.I don't know if this is a can of worms that should be opened, wheter for realisms sake or otherwise - especially since, as you said, it wouldn't make sense in the current setting which has no sexual dymorphism or gender roles.
I don't know if this is a can of worms that should be opened, wheter for realisms sake or otherwise - especially since, as you said, it wouldn't make sense in the current setting which has no sexual dimorphism or gender roles.
I admit if this was added alongside dimorphism, "castes" in the traditional sense of the word and not the in-game one, gender roles, gender expectations (clothing, behavior, etc.) and so on it could lead to a lot of interesting interactions on the internal workings of cultures. I.e having one dwarven culture only accept queens, but her only heir being a male it'd cause the local nobles and court to be displeased, creating complications, or a human civ only having female priestesses in their temples, who also get certain privileges due to their role, or another civ having a military caste consisting entirely of males, etc. etc. Then there's breaking of traditions and so on leading to other dynamic changes - the whole thing just gets more complex and in-depth from there.
However, on its own, I do not see what the addition of trans people would add at all to the game. I don't like politics of any sort in games, wheter right or left, but with the issue having been so heavily politicized in recent years (and with you yourself saying you didn't add dymorphism in order to "not upset people" - a trap a lot of game devs have fallen in already) I cannot help but feel highly skeptical and mixed towards this.
My main message regarding this though - if you want to have the game be realistic, then adding in the nastier parts of realism and history that people dislike - prejudice, dimorphism, gender roles, and so on - is pretty much required. Most fantasy games already do this, and its not like the playerbase hasn't done their fair share of atrocities - compared to outright mermaid genocide I'd say prejudice or dimorphism are both rather tame.
-snip-A world with absolutely no prejudices or expectations of any kind for different groups is not realistic in the slightest if you want to have differences in physical and psychological qualities between the genders of various races - in that case it'd be utopian, at best - it'd only be realistic for a race of gray blobs with no differences between any of their individual members.
-snip-A world with absolutely no prejudices or expectations of any kind for different groups is not realistic in the slightest if you want to have differences in physical and psychological qualities between the genders of various races - in that case it'd be utopian, at best - it'd only be realistic for a race of gray blobs with no differences between any of their individual members.
The entire reason human history developed the way it did, with gender roles and so on, is because of early days of civilization pretty much requiring people to play to their biological strengths. For now, dwarves and other races do not have those differences at any significant level, for whatever reason - if Toady wants to keep the game to be realistic and add more depth to the histories of various civilizations, he is more than likely going to have to add them.
I don't see how this would be different if you want to have civs start from small tribes and eventually developing into large, prosperous nations - after periods of only sending fit young men to war, sooner or later of course traditions would be broken, it would be a dynamic worldgen change, perhaps even a result of player meddling. Thats already a way for the player to have some significant impact on the world and actually feel the change.
It is exactly why I think it would be neat to have this sort of thing in-game. It adds depths, it makes things like different titles for monarchs make sense, it adds nuance to the history of the world and the general stories being presented for each generated world.
As for what trans dwarves would add to the game (such a weird question, no one cared as much when kakapos and kiwis were added), a bunch of people who play the game are trans, a bunch of us have trans friends, and we'd like to dorf them and tell them how they got eaten by a skinless capybara fiend just like everyone else in our friend group (or is that just me? :P). It really is a pity its a "political" topic - some would say having gay dwarves is political (and a couple decades ago having dwarves of color would have been political), but maybe one day things'll be different. I'd really like to see procedural generation of genders in culture - it would be neat to see nb genders ala the Egyptians, Mayans, or the Maori.
I completely agree with Toady here - the game isn't quite ready for that sort of thing being implemented quite yet, although i'm hopeful once more procedural culture stuff is in.
Are adventurers being asexual and uninterested in marriage intentional or a bug?Probably neither. ToadyOne has spoken that the game can't infere the intent of the player actions. Which isnt a fault to ToadyOne, computers cant infere intent. If you cant get down down, with whomever you want, and then get the marries then it probably because that ability doesn't exist for adventurers yet.
I modified my post to clarify. I'm specifically referring to when you retire an adventurer in a player fortress, they will never marry or get children."Get married, have children, play as decendents"
Are adventurers (specifically retired ones) being asexual and uninterested in marriage intentional or a bug?
Oddly enough, we thought retired adventurers would start forming relationships with 0.40.01+, so we wanted to have a better spectrum available, but then we didn't get around to the gen/pre-retirement specification menu, so all adventurers are still tagged with the special "undetermined" flag...
Quote from: Random_DragonAre these new display rack items going to be available to construct and place in adventure mode? If so, is it handled via hardcoded additions to the code, or will some raw handling of tool-based furniture for adventure mode be implemented? If the latter, I can see that being potentially useful for modding.
A wooden pedestal is available as a reaction in the raws, and adv site blueprints allow display furniture now, but there isn't any kind of larger framework.
A world with absolutely no prejudices or expectations of any kind for different groups is not realistic in the slightest if you want to have differences in physical and psychological qualities between the genders of various races - in that case it'd be utopian, at best - it'd only be realistic for a race of gray blobs with no differences between any of their individual members.
The entire reason human history developed the way it did, with gender roles and so on, is because of early days of civilization pretty much requiring people to play to their biological strengths. For now, dwarves and other races do not have those differences at any significant level, for whatever reason - if Toady wants to keep the game to be realistic and add more depth to the histories of various civilizations, he is more than likely going to have to add them.
I don't see how this would be different if you want to have civs start from small tribes and eventually developing into large, prosperous nations - after periods of only sending fit young men to war, sooner or later of course traditions would be broken, it would be a dynamic worldgen change, perhaps even a result of player meddling. Thats already a way for the player to have some significant impact on the world and actually feel the change.
It is exactly why I think it would be neat to have this sort of thing in-game. It adds depths, it makes things like different titles for monarchs make sense, it adds nuance to the history of the world and the general stories being presented for each generated world.
I'd just like to point out that we already have a topic for discussing the possibilities of in-game prejudices, so it'd probably be better to move this discussion over there.
you're taking "realistic" to mean "similar to reality" while goblincookie is taking it to mean "self-consistent"
representing things in a way that is accurate and true to life.
A wooden pedestal is available as a reaction in the raws, and adv site blueprints allow display furniture now, but there isn't any kind of larger framework.
It is said, but not unexpected.
I can't recall if this has been asked, but what about weapon racks and armor stands? These would be perfectly logical choices as display furniture, and I've kinda joked about the possibility that you might completely forget to utilize them for display.
It's...mostly a joke because it references another game I used to contribute to, where "failing to utilize existing features properly when adding a new feature" is a bit of a problem among the other contributors and developers. But now I'm curious.
Can we expect to see underwater sites similar to those of dwarves, goblins etc.? I'm thinking something like coral castles of mermaids.FWIW, sea-trolls, ala Grendel's mother in Beowulf, were on the table at one point. A sea-cave is obviously a lot simpler than a merpalace, but it suggest that the requisite mechanics will someday exist.
Can we expect to see underwater sites similar to those of dwarves, goblins etc.? I'm thinking something like coral castles of mermaids.
I remember reading somewhere (in one of the Threetoe stories?) about goblins serving demons in the Circus. Will there one day be demon sites in Hell, along with goblin populations and hell beasts? Perhaps even armed and armored demon leaders?
Speaking of demons, will demons be able to use magic related to their spheres? I find it odd how demons can grant necromancy slabs but cannot use the magic themselves.
Thanks!
Can we expect to see underwater sites similar to those of dwarves, goblins etc.? I'm thinking something like coral castles of mermaids.With the amount of bugs & lag caused by water and displacement of water (casting fire spells underwater or suddenly deleting water) i would think unlikely but only Toady knows a definite answer to this, theres not much mention otherwise im aware of.
I remember reading somewhere (in one of the Threetoe stories?) about goblins serving demons in the Circus. Will there one day be demon sites in Hell, along with goblin populations and hell beasts? Perhaps even armed and armored demon leaders?
Speaking of demons, will demons be able to use magic related to their spheres? I find it odd how demons can grant necromancy slabs but cannot use the magic themselves.
FWIW, sea-trolls, ala Grendel's mother in Beowulf, were on the table at one point. A sea-cave is obviously a lot simpler than a merpalace, but it suggest that the requisite mechanics will someday exist.
I recently broached the idea here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167874.msg7595197#msg7595197), but yeah raising a glass to the future notion of having armor & weapon racks being useful again given the opportunity to store other things as a greater incorporation of new display/storage furniture.
Will megabeast/titan/demon/historical figure body parts affect artifacts at all, either in the artifact release or magic? There are plenty of legends of stuff "made from the terrible ___'s bones", such as the Celtic Gáe Bulg made from the Coinchenn. Currently, generated creature materials have 0 value, and it'd be nice if turning our greatest foes into cool stuff had more oomph.
For example, the [MAGICAL] tag being present on a creature might confer some kind of effect, or a relevant [SPHERE] tag might be inherited by the artifact itself. But at the very least, could generated creatures have materials with value? Even though stuff like swamp titan silk is less valuable than pig tail cloth, it feels extra-special considering the source.
Will be weapon racks and armor stands fixed to store what they were ment to store in the first place?Bugs will be fixed. Contrary to popular belief, bugs aren't introduced into the game as an amusing joke to frustrate fans.
Recorded history
New wizards beyond necromancers: by race, by skill, by object, by corruption, by deal with another power
Wizards that wander
Wizards that live in isolation
Wizards that form groups (councils, covens, etc.), must have rationale (group magic, mutual protection, research, etc.)
Wizards that involve themselves with civilization
What are all the different ways items will be able to displayed after the next release?
Will it be only artifacts that will be able to be displayed?
Started with temple relic storage as a test case, and that seems to work, respecting the pools and so forth. The game has display cases and pedestals now, in all modes. Next I'm going to finish the display jobs in dwarf mode before I get back to maps. You'll be able to display any non-large object you like, and there'll be new thoughts for displayed items similar to the admiration of architecture. So you can set up artifact display areas, or you can just use regular masterpieces, or junk, or skulls, as you see fit. The displayed items show like the food on tables so you can admire them yourself.
Will there be a general 'Use Magical Device' skill or will there be specific skills for wands, books,
potions, etc?
Any fire magic = "skolderer" skill in dwarvish tongue and stats, but fire imps drawing on exactly the same hardcoded fire magic skill (by being given natural levels similar to climbing & swimming) are seen to also have levels in "Adept/Exeptional Skolderer" for example or another name for fire magic between generated worlds where they are present.
Will the myth arc also define gods and other supernatural beings on a world per world basis like magic? That is, what makes a god a god.
I.e. in the case of gods, would we procedurally generate what are their origin, what are their powers, what are their sources of powers, what if at all makes a being able to become a god or stop being a god. And what can, if at all, kill or destroy a god.
I made a suggestion here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167753.0) but would like to hear what Toady is thinking.
To expand a little, it would be interesting if we procedurally defined gods and other supernatural beings. Like what are their origins(One ore more, there may be several sources). Did they arise from a primordial chaos and created the world? Or maybe there was a world and gods rose from aspects of the world (like mountains, rivers, primordial egg fragments or whatever). Perhaps a creator god created sub gods. All different from world to world depending on what is generated. This further help generate what define their sources of power and their domains. Maybe they are fueled by magic, maybe their power is defined by the number of followers or maybe they are powered by physical elements like trees or rivers. Especially if that is their domain, like a god of rivers. Or maybe they are simply powers unto their own.
This, in concert with their personality, then in turn allows you to generate what drives them and what their actions are. Like a god who derives his power from number of followers would do his best to maximize number of followers. Or a god of rivers would maybe look after the health of the rivers in the world.
Furthermore, one could also procedurally generate what forms these gods take and where and what form they interact with the world and their followers. Some gods may not take a form in the physical world and act only trough followers or events, while another may be entirely in the physical form like a giant tree or whatever.
There is much more to be said but I would also point out this also allow one to generate whatever entities can become gods and what actions are required to do so. And also how a god could die, be destroyed, made powerless or stop being a god. If possible at all in that world. Figuring that out would a endgame type of quest and doing lots of scolary work to understand divine beings what makes you able to become one, similar in a way to the secrets of life and death.
To what degree do you think other "planes" could manifest as co-incidental soil/sky layers in the planar portal development context? For instance, will the clown car be changed from a geological layer into discrete portals buried at the bottom of the world? Or will they sort of coexist in an unrelated manner?I think the circus is already implied to be a separate "plane" on its own, however my guess is that its a temporary thing for now and once different planes are added we'll switch through them via some other option, instead of them just being an extension of the z-layers.
Will AI ever be set to automatically discard burning clothing?The game isn't complete. When additions to self-preservation ai are being worked on this bug will no doubt be addressed (along with rolling on the floor and having the steel-plate clad fortress guards jump on top of burning peasants to smother their flames presumably).
Man, that release should be a good one. :POne day they may even think about what side of the wall that they're building they want to be on relative to the incoming horde of screaming terror.
In some sense, "gameplay", whatever that means, must always win. But it becomes a blurry concept with realism when you think of different moods you could be going for, and we vaguely slant realistic most of the time.
Well I was wrong, which is not that surprising really, but I know that if personal quantum computers where available I'd want the individual grains of sand to be simulated, that would be detailed and awesome.
@JesterHell696: I think you've got the wrong impression of what quantum computers are. They're not insanely powerful versions of the current von Neumann computers, but more akin to array processors or graphics processors, i.e. devices very good at a limited set of tasks (such as rendering the current financial network's encryption almost totally useless as protection against an attack against any selected individual transactions, but not all at once, for instance, assuming the attacker has access to such computers, of course). The analogy isn't quite accurate, as the domain in which quantum computers shine is one where current computers curl up in a ball and cry, rather than just one or two orders of magnitude faster (NP complete problems, in math terminology). A quantum co-processor would e.g. be handy for path finding (but you'd still have to write a special program for the co-processor), as it should be possible to compute the actual cheapest path for dorfs according to the penalties applied in little time. Alas, quantum co-processors for private use are probably a very long way off.
Looks like this update will be preparation for most future arcs, including Myth & Magic, Laws & Customs, and Economy, is this true?Since most everything ties into most everything else, most development provides additional building blocks towards future functionality. I don't see much intersection between artifacts and economy, unless artifacts can be traded as economic goods. The artifact demand/gifting is going to be hobbled by Laws & Customs diplomacy being absent, but is presumably somewhat prepared to be possible to enter that future development with limited effort. Additional artifact generation and the activities to chase them provides some limited ground works for magical artifacts, it can be assumed, but are probably more a goal in itself to bring life to the world.
When boats come around, will there be artifact ships?
Regarding traveling military peoples; when the economy is implemented, would I be able to request mercenaries from other civilizations? Like requesting archers from the elves to bolster my crossbowdorfs and then paying for it through the normal trade caravan or some other means. Conversely, could your parent civilization levy your soldiers to help in other wars or to defend other forts?Unless you put your suggestion in the suggestions forum, it'll be lost to time in this thread. Economy is at least 10 years away. Suggestions here will probably be forgotten by next week. :)
On another note, I would like catapults to be more interesting. Specifically I want to load them with spiked balls.
Will we see the return of the alchemist and their soap making antics?
Will we see the return of the alchemist and their soap making antics?
Probably not only soap... Potions, for example. But not in this release.
Regarding traveling military peoples; when the economy is implemented, would I be able to request mercenaries from other civilizations? Like requesting archers from the elves to bolster my crossbowdorfs and then paying for it through the normal trade caravan or some other means. Conversely, could your parent civilization levy your soldiers to help in other wars or to defend other forts?Unless you put your suggestion in the suggestions forum, it'll be lost to time in this thread. Economy is at least 10 years away. Suggestions here will probably be forgotten by next week. :)
On another note, I would like catapults to be more interesting. Specifically I want to load them with spiked balls.
~snip
Are there any plans to add a paid lootbox business model to DF?
Are there any plans to add a paid lootbox business model to DF?
No. DF is always going to be 100% free to play AFAIK.
!! Buy our season pass DLC now to get early DF release access !!
Like how Magic schools seem to be being implemented, will there be fighting schools for people like adventurers to spar and find meat bags in this area easier. Possibly paying a fee, doing "work"(murder) and sparring for weeks or even make it as if they stay in small dorms off to the side. To make elves not stupid maybe they could be more in tune with magic or have high quality magical objects(would probably kill them for fun) would make them slightly interesting. Oh and an interesting idea in normal world creation is aggression so civilized races will more likely be at war. I'm sorry about my stark raving mad rambling but I'm really full of ideas.Please take them to the suggestions forum if you want your ideas to actually be read.
Two questions:1. The undead bug that's going to the fixed is the unkillable undead head part, as far as I understand. Sapient remains being unusable is not a bug as far as I understand, as it would violate dwarven ethics to do use them (and the previous ability to use bones from sapients for crafting being a bug). When elves, goblins, and possibly humans become playable in fortress mode blocking those races from butchery/crafting would be a bug/lacking implementation.
1. Is the bug with sentient body parts being unusable (bones for crafts, or meat for food) slated to be fixed anytime in the next version? I've heard that it was actually fixed for the next release but apparently it wasnt.
2. What exactly does the CE_ERRATIC_BEHAVIOR token do? I thought it made dwarves start fights at random occasionally when drunk but I'm not sure if thats attributed to the token itself or due to arguments that happen in fort mode that the player just doesnt see.
Actually the sapient parts being unusable is a bug or atleast not intended, since it applies to adventure mode as well to adventurers that shouldn't care about dwarven ethics. In 40.xx you could easily butcher a human or goblin corpse as any race and just plain eat its meat - in the current one you cannot.If Toady were to spend a few months properly integrating civ-ethics before he starts on myth-gen, I'd be overjoyed.
I don't recall changing anything in particular. I don't quite understand where the exact barrier is occurring. I don't recall a wear-based restriction message in adv mode.
Actually the sapient parts being unusable is a bug or atleast not intended, since it applies to adventure mode as well to adventurers that shouldn't care about dwarven ethics. In 40.xx you could easily butcher a human or goblin corpse as any race and just plain eat its meat - in the current one you cannot.Of course, that was also a bug as, ethically, only Elf adventurers should have been able to feast on their sapient buddies (and goblin civ goblins if you modded them in).
Of course, that was also a bug as, ethically, only Elf adventurers should have been able to feast on their sapient buddies (and goblin civ goblins if you modded them in).I've never bought that line of reasoning. You can do all other manner of atrocious things in Adventure Mode, in defiance not only of your civ's ethics, but of your character's beliefs. The game treats you, in essence, as a possessing spirit, leaving your poor puppet the freedom only to weep. Granted, future releases may penalize you for breaking character, but I doubt Toady intends to outright stop you from doing so.
Also I think Elven ethics only approve of eating what you've killed.Yeah. Although, there aren't any ethics regarding eating non-kills, are there? So I guess it's OK for a dorf to eat a friend who 'accidentally' fell out of a tree.
I'd like to see a cannibalism ethics tag added to this. It's quite different cooking a delicious troll stew than chewing on a fellow halfling's hairy feet.I think this should instead be an interpolation of the presently existing EAT_SAPIENT tag and a putative one governing whether other races are seen as sapient.
I do not see at all how that was a bug - like what Urlance Woolsbane said, you can be someone completely atrocious going against all of your civs ethics, I don't see why cannibalism would be different.Actually the sapient parts being unusable is a bug or atleast not intended, since it applies to adventure mode as well to adventurers that shouldn't care about dwarven ethics. In 40.xx you could easily butcher a human or goblin corpse as any race and just plain eat its meat - in the current one you cannot.Of course, that was also a bug as, ethically, only Elf adventurers should have been able to feast on their sapient buddies (and goblin civ goblins if you modded them in).
I'd like to see a cannibalism ethics tag added to this. It's quite different cooking a delicious troll stew than chewing on a fellow halfling's hairy feet.I think this should instead be an interpolation of the presently existing EAT_SAPIENT tag and a putative one governing whether other races are seen as sapient.
In the new version coming up, strange moods are tracked in world generation. Does it only apply to civilizations or could I, say, give gnomes the ability to have strange moods and therefore have non-civ creatures creating artifacts?The convention is to use (lime) green to indicate questions to Toady so he can find then among the chaff (like this post) when answering.
The convention is to use (lime) green to indicate questions to Toady so he can find then among the chaff (like this post) when answering.
Currently the mood tag is attached to the dwarven race/civ template only. Since there is little reason to assume that will change in the upcoming release, strange moods will probably remain restricted to dwarves (and moddable to civs only). The new artifacts will presumably be created using processes different from strange moods, and these processes will probably be more directed than the random dwarven moods (humies wouldn't take just any dead priest to hack up into relics, for instance, and gods would probably have some kind of reason for bestowing an artifact on someone, regardless of whether they did the job themselves or provided divine inspiration for someone).
With the current split between body and soul: when will a being count as dead? (In both respects? utterly destroyed? little unclear here, though previously you went over things like being able to operate one without the other by different means or said relationship being unimportant)
Will beings whose souls reside in items die when the item is destroyed?
Oh wait, perhaps it was "I'm a human beast hunter from [goblin_civ_name]". That would work...That would make sense, although Toady's phrasing was a tad confusing. I'm not sure why Buddy A would need to mention his species, since that can't yet be disguised, if I remember rightly. And surely the whole "I'm from civ x" shtick only works on those who don't belong to civ x? Mind you, it does give rise to a rather funny mental image:
...when will a being count as dead?
Will beings whose souls reside in items die when the item is destroyed?[/color]
Will myth/magic extend to medical care? For example, potions, rituals, etc? And will the dwarves perform such cures even if they may not actually be effective (more myth than fact)? Could they even perform dangerous treatments that later get learned away by scholars?
Will we be able to use false identities to infiltrate goblin civs with our adventurers, or are they allways hostile in practice?
Pretty sure you can't impersonate other races in the upcoming version, only claim you're from another civ.Will we be able to use false identities to infiltrate goblin civs with our adventurers, or are they allways hostile in practice?
What Toady's said so far implies this ability it seems, but can't know with 100% certainty that it'll actually work out in a way that allows adventurers to infiltrate for very long.
Oh shit, I had a hilarious idea. Can you attempt impersonate creatures that aren't standard civ critters? If so, is it possible to impersonate an intelligent semi-megabeast, and what are the consequences of attempting it?
Ah right, doh. Though I wonder how the code is gonna handle "elf pretending to be human" and thus I wonder if extreme bullshittery could allow convincing a dumb-enough megabeast...
Is it really confirmed that you can even attempt to make a different-species ID, which "elf as human" would require? Because that would require some major niche hardcoding to allow for only such specific instances to be allowed, without allowing the ability to attempt less believable IDs.
Ah right, doh. Though I wonder how the code is gonna handle "elf pretending to be human" and thus I wonder if extreme bullshittery could allow convincing a dumb-enough megabeast...I imagined it's planned, but entity is far more important than race right now. Race basically has no meaning as far as interactions between groups goes, so not much point in dealing with it yet.
Is it really confirmed that you can even attempt to make a different-species ID, which "elf as human" would require? Because that would require some major niche hardcoding to allow for only such specific instances to be allowed, without allowing the ability to attempt less believable IDs.
1. If an person breaks the behavior required to get a specific afterlife will there be ways in some worlds to atone for their sins to regain access to that afterlife? Possibly through penance?Urist McAvatar has lost an Eighth!
Salve, o Magnus Bufo!Mythgen development start (mostly) is still about 6 months away (rough guess, based on previous post-release bug-fixing periods) so there's a good chance not everything has been considered in such concrete terms yet.
I get the impression that the upcoming magic framework will draw on a wide range of influences, both historical and otherwise, for its many permutations. Will it include the concept of magical body-parts, as seen in various parts of Africa? These organs might be species-wide (e.g. goblin-tongues having efficacy for illusions) or caste-specific (e.g. beards being used for martial potions) or the result of certain abnormalities (e.g. the livers of albino dwarves combating the effects of alcohol.)
Assuming the answer to my first question is "Yes," will historical figures respond to the existence of mystical organs? Will we see goblin bandits prowling the land for unwitting donors, then selling their finds to apothecaries? Might black-markets pop up as a result?
Anyhow, enough of my rambling. I am ever grateful to you for chiseling away at this bright and blood-soaked gem of a game. Let us hope that Time does not send agents (or just one agent and a pack of war-dogs) to steal it away from you.
Mythgen development start (mostly) is still about 6 months away (rough guess, based on previous post-release bug-fixing periods) so there's a good chance not everything has been considered in such concrete terms yet.I'm aware of this, but Toady seems to have put a good of deal of forethought into mythgen; enough that he's willing to give talks on it. As such, I figured it was worth a shot.
Posting a Suggestion in the suggestions forum would guarantee that Toady will actually see, note down and consider your proposal.That's not the impression I've gotten about the Suggestions forum. I've never seen any indication that Toady pays it much heed. It seems rather vestigial at this point. Still, I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong on this, and there's nothing stopping me from spending a few minutes making a post there, but I'm content to wait a few weeks before doing so.
Posting here, unless the idea really has been considered in detail, will most likely result in the response 'yes, maybe, no schedule' and then the idea will be buried.
That's not the impression I've gotten about the Suggestions forum. I've never seen any indication that Toady pays it much heed. It seems rather vestigial at this point. Still, I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong on this, and there's nothing stopping me from spending a few minutes making a post there, but I'm content to wait a few weeks before doing so.
He's stated that he reads at least the opening post of each thread in the Suggestions forum. I don't see a reason to doubt him. I think it would be a bit much to expect him to reply to each suggestion, even the ones that aren't iterations.Ah right, I'd forgotten about that. That is heartening. Just reading the first post is quite enough in my book.
Yeah, he's said this several times. You can believe him, or some random forum people who have no idea of what he's doing from day to day. Your choice.
Toady even says from time to time to make sure your suggestion when asked in this thread is also put in the suggestion board because he'll forget about it here. But, hey if you think he's lying, not much point in asking in either thread, is there?
Why do the inhabitants of a site abandon it when you kill the administrator?Incomplete games have bugs. Please post them on the bug tracker if they're not there already (pretty sure sleeping refugees/armies is already there). Bugs in games are not part of the upcoming plans (which is what this thread is about). Contrary to popular belief they occur accidentally and are intended to be fixed.
Why are refugees always sleeping in their tents?
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0). Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.
What exactly happens when our troops arrive at a site for a raid? I've had a few instances now where my troops will show up at a populated site to raid, only to report back that they couldn't find anything. What exactly are they looking for in a raid? Isn't it just a generic "kill some folks, steal stuff if you can" order?
Its purely artifact related at the moment.
I'm confused then, since some raids seem to be successful in actually killing some of the inhabitants. Are any killings just an incidental result of them being spotted while sneaking for artifacts?Correct. The ideal result, from the game's perspective, is for your dwarves to sneak in and out undetected. That said, it seems like most of the functionality needed for proper pillaging is there, so hopefully someone will be able to rig something up with DFHack eventually.
Problem is I dunno if a skilled and geared squad is more likely to inflict kills. I think I might science up a raider embark dedicated to being able to sent a squad out ASAP.Toady claims that it should, with the caveat that it could well be broken.
It's suspected currently that these visitors are actually exclusively spies.They're not. You only have to open Legends to check that. Some are spies, some aren't. And yeah, real monster hunters petition right away, so I'm hoping that's WAD.
Sorry if this has been asked before.Humans war with each other all the time. Goblins too.
Are there currently any plans to allow civs to go to war with one another over values, rather than only over ethics? This would allow for civs from the same entity raw to go to war with one another. For example humans fighting other humans, which now can only be done by adding a new human entity raw.
Humans war with each other all the time. Goblins too.
Even my own Wild Dwarves beat each other up.
In fact entities within a single civ even go to war with each other
Probably even more so now that families and their artifact claims have been thrown into the equation.
Humans war with each other all the time. Goblins too.
Even my own Wild Dwarves beat each other up.
In fact entities within a single civ even go to war with each other
Probably even more so now that families and their artifact claims have been thrown into the equation.
Did this happen during world gen or after world gen? I'm talking about during world gen.
The only time I've seen humans fight humans was within a civilisation where two different entities of the same civ went to war, as you said. Never have I seen a human civ fight another civ, the only exception being my personal mod where I have three different human raw entities with vastly different ethics, within which they never go to war against civs from the same raw entitity. Same goes for goblins, I see them murder each other but I've yet to see a goblin civilisation go to war with another goblin civilisation. Now I realise that with the artifacts and raids this might change, but I'm speaking during world gen.
Humans go to war against each other frequently during world gen, while elves don't seem to do so.
Humans war with each other all the time. Goblins too.
Even my own Wild Dwarves beat each other up.
In fact entities within a single civ even go to war with each other
Probably even more so now that families and their artifact claims have been thrown into the equation.
Did this happen during world gen or after world gen? I'm talking about during world gen.
The only time I've seen humans fight humans was within a civilisation where two different entities of the same civ went to war, as you said. Never have I seen a human civ fight another civ, the only exception being my personal mod where I have three different human raw entities with vastly different ethics, within which they never go to war against civs from the same raw entitity. Same goes for goblins, I see them murder each other but I've yet to see a goblin civilisation go to war with another goblin civilisation. Now I realise that with the artifacts and raids this might change, but I'm speaking during world gen.
Humans go to war against each other frequently during world gen, while elves don't seem to do so.
Oh yea definitely, this update is definitely a step towards more diverse reasons for war as well. I hope with the mythics release religion will start playing a role in it too. But I think using values as a check for war would be interesting especially in humans civs as its varied per civs, it won't do much for dwarves that have fixed values per civ for example.A warlike leader effects wars too apparently, so I think there's definitely some value checking going on even if it's just at a personal level (and values range quite a bit from person to person, so that makes more sense).
Thjere has been a rather active thread on here recently about "the importance of prejudice", while related my question isn't about it exactly. Will we ever get towns that simply don't like strangers in general and will express that? A lot of good stories come from those sorts of villages/towns in fantasy. And in horror (eg, the shadow over innsmouth by hp Lovecraft)You know the discussion was started by Toady, right?
What are the major limiting factors of world gen STRANGE MOODS artifacts? In the process of updating my mods, I moved the token from one race that basically spammed artifacts to one that apparently is uninterested in creating artifacts.Interesting, was about to start playing with that myself. It seems not to be entity related anyhow. Dwarves are happy to mood in goblin pits and tribal villages with limited access to materials (except bones of course).
Sorry, everyone! I'm kinda new to this forum and i've made this account just to ask these questions. Also English is not my first language so sorry for any mistakes.your English is perfectly fine
1. There's general "harass the population of a civ" raid and "acquire artifact" raid. Will you be implementing raids that try to take over a settlement by killing and otherwise incapacitating the defenders and claim the settlement for the raider's civ?1. The raid feature is new and will be expanded to at least steal non artifact items later on. Conquest is probably a lot further on and would probably require/be part of the military arc (which is beyond the planned DF horizon).
2. Because of the whole religion and artifacts things and tombs being a thing, will there gonna be an expansion of the tomb structures where dead civ members or at least historical figures get buried if anyone finds their bodies? And will the important figures be able to be buried with artifacts?
3. If there are some methods of bringing back dead people eventually, will civs have differing opinions about resurrection?
For example, one civ might forbid acts of resurrection while the other not only allow them but encourage them
Sorry, everyone! I'm kinda new to this forum and i've made this account just to ask these questions. Also English is not my first language so sorry for any mistakes.
Quote from: Buttery_MessWith the myths and magic release, we can expect magic and fantasy sliders for world generation, but what whimsy? It occurs to me that lollipop forests and, dare I say it, featherwood trees, aren't so much fantastical or magical as whimsical. I imagine some people would be keen to play in an Adventure Time-like world but a max magic max fantasy setting would more likely generate something D&D-like than that. Can we expect any other sliders, like world geometry, real-world cultural influence, climate, that sort of thing?Quote from: KittyTacWill there be advanced worldgen options for the myth generator? Say, if I need explosion spells AND water evaporating spells in a world?
does identity tracking reflect transformations, say if you attacked a hamlet transformed into a goblin, would it store the physical description of that goblin-form and any names you used, or would npcs be able to associate that goblin with you, naturally being a human, after you had transformed back out-of-sight?
With all the wealth of procedurally generated content and simulations that make it all work together in meaningful ways, do you foresee various aspects of Dwarf Fortress becoming interesting enough to be a (mini-)game in itself?
Examples:
For the economic aspect, a fantasy trading game where the player can go from town to town, buy cheap and sell high, buy wagons or ships to move more stuff, eventually create a trading empire that has to deal with world politics rather than bandits.
For the combat aspect, a martial arts game where the player can learn various moves and techniques, fight other warriors who might use different schools, seek out masters to learn new ways to fight.
Similarly for all sort of magic/art/cooking/crafting, do you foresee these becoming interesting enough at some point that a player might simply spend hours exploring the possibilities? Wandering the game world following leads and rumors to find new masters or schools to learn from or challenge, perhaps even have deities teach them some seriously awesome stuff.
...
What I consider a minigame here are all the little rules and relationships that might exist in a system that would, in a cooking system, take some ingredients then process and combine them in some way that lets the player tap into all the procedurally generated goodness.
Will magical artificial landmarks appear on the map during worldgen, e.g region-wide explosions showing up as ASCII craters?
I heard there will be transformation and polymorph sort of stuff
1: Will there be new skills to accommodate unique abilities associated with transformations? Like, if I gain the magical ability to turn into a poison-spitting snake, will I be able to, with practice, become a Spitmaster or something? Can I become a master flier if I turn into a bird and practice for a long time?
Will there be different methods of transforming, with different results? Examples:
Can I turn into an anthropomorphic wolf, with some of my usual appearance traits and can be recognized as me but also a tail, and scent powers, and a bite attack-- Wolfman style. Or:
Can I turn into a wolf, but I retain the ability to speak, and no one can tell me from a normal wolf unless I say something. Or:
Can I turn someone into a newt, leaving them no less intelligent, but unable to do things newts physically can't do, like talk and use magic that doesn't involve speaking or movements newts can't do? Or:
Can I turn them into a newt, with all the physical and mental repercussions thereof, leaving them helpless unless someone changes them back?
is there any chance that different regions might eventually have more unique and distinct assemblages of flora and fauna (perhaps to come somewhere around the time randomly-generated wildlife is implemented)? It gets a bit repetitive and immersion-breaking to see camels in every desert and grizzly bears in every temperate forest, regardless of whether or not they're at opposite ends of the world.
I can't recall if this has been asked, but what about weapon racks and armor stands? These would be perfectly logical choices as display furniture, and I've kinda joked about the possibility that you might completely forget to utilize them for display.
Can we expect to see underwater sites similar to those of dwarves, goblins etc.? I'm thinking something like coral castles of mermaids.
I remember reading somewhere (in one of the Threetoe stories?) about goblins serving demons in the Circus. Will there one day be demon sites in Hell, along with goblin populations and hell beasts? Perhaps even armed and armored demon leaders?
Speaking of demons, will demons be able to use magic related to their spheres? I find it odd how demons can grant necromancy slabs but cannot use the magic themselves.
I’ve been looking into all sorts of tokens, and will there be new tokens to define if something needs magic? Such as a wizard acquiring his power or you being blessed by a goddess, etc.
Also, what about being blessed by gods/goddesses? Maybe through praying or through faithful support, they give you powers to defend his/her name?
Will megabeast/titan/demon/historical figure body parts affect artifacts at all, either in the artifact release or magic? There are plenty of legends of stuff "made from the terrible ___'s bones", such as the Celtic Gáe Bulg made from the Coinchenn. Currently, generated creature materials have 0 value, and it'd be nice if turning our greatest foes into cool stuff had more oomph.
For example, the [MAGICAL] tag being present on a creature might confer some kind of effect, or a relevant [SPHERE] tag might be inherited by the artifact itself. But at the very least, could generated creatures have materials with value? Even though stuff like swamp titan silk is less valuable than pig tail cloth, it feels extra-special considering the source.
1. Will body altering corruptions and transform causing curses eventually destroy weak clothes when occurring? For example a were beast's clothes being in tatters from the transformation.
2. Eventually will transforming or having body altering corruptions while wearing hard armor such as metal armor cause damage to the person transforming or being corrupted as they are possibly being restricted in their growth by the armor.
3. In terms of conduct required for afterlives how will our adventurers be able to check where they stand spiritually? Might praying or something similar be a possible way to check how the gods or whatever is in charge of the afterlife feels about you?
4. Eventually will events that currently only happen during world gen like festivals, buildings being built and ceremonies happen post world gen? If so could a player adventure attend the festival, ceremony or seeing the construction of the building?
5. When the first pass of the myth and magic update comes out what sort of magic organizations do you expect to see?
6. Will the player eventually be able to start magic organizations? If so could they try to build a magic academy and be the arch wizard of it?
Will there be any exceptions to non-building destroyers finding ways around simple destructable obstacles blocking the way to steal artifacts(like wall grates without a door to lockpick to gain entry to a viewing area) or will it have to remain for later arcs when more tools & methods like invaders digging into your fortress are available?
With a sort of worry that by just walling off a precious artifact behind grates/metal bars, the AI may just get confused and like a flytrap get stuck lagging potentially into it with the intention to steal or completely divert away interest making a object basically un-stealable if its not particularly demanded by anybody or required to move off its display.
Will the myth arc also define gods and other supernatural beings on a world per world basis like magic? That is, what makes a god a god.
I.e. in the case of gods, would we procedurally generate what are their origin, what are their powers, what are their sources of powers, what if at all makes a being able to become a god or stop being a god. And what can, if at all, kill or destroy a god.
Is the relationship between the word symbols and things like the names of gods or monsters going to be softcoded as part of the myths/magic release? At present the word-symbols are a weird hybrid of hardcoded and softcoded, though can be directly edited but they MUST be there exactly as named in vanilla since they used to name things in a hardcoded manner which cannot make use of any new word-symbols that are added in.
Also, would it be possible to actually add in tokens for symbols themselves? By this I mean adding in the symbols such as is used to randomly generate gods, not the word-symbol tokens.
Toady has mentioned i think either in his talk or his fortress replies that unique generated skills (which might go the way of instruments to being ambigious until seen in action, really up to toady how to address) as well as complimentary normal labour skills play a part for making & using objects, leveling your "Ümazu" magic skill for example individual to the culture & magic rules laid out in mythgen with applicable persons & races as well as drawbacks & consequences.
Books, wands and potions can all reasonably draw upon book-binder, woodcrafting & alchemy/brewing etc where appropriate. Still a good question, similar to how untrained crossbow dwarves bludgeon people with their weapons, you probably dont want somebody with no wand-casting skill attempting to stab someone with a blunt wooden 'knife' or misc object.
Just to clarify, if there is going to be randomly generated names for magic skills (just casting out if i got anything wrong or ideas have been changed on it during development), will the ability to mod in pre-fixed magical abilities remain hardcoded, so that the magic skill names are only generated, but doesn't affect the skill itself?Quote from: exampleAny fire magic = "skolderer" skill in dwarvish tongue and stats, but fire imps drawing on exactly the same hardcoded fire magic skill (by being given natural levels similar to climbing & swimming) are seen to also have levels in "Adept/Exeptional Skolderer" for example or another name for fire magic between generated worlds where they are present.
To what degree do you think other "planes" could manifest as co-incidental soil/sky layers in the planar portal development context? For instance, will the clown car be changed from a geological layer into discrete portals buried at the bottom of the world? Or will they sort of coexist in an unrelated manner?
A question regarding the fix for tree-dwarves that was announced; will this apply to flier pathfinding as well? Would make modded flier civs actually playable, as well as preventing flying animal people visitors from being stuck in mid-air.
Will the (justly or not) suspected artifact thieves have a way of clearing their name? Or is the suspicion something they'll just have to deal with on their job?
Regarding traveling military peoples; when the economy is implemented, would I be able to request mercenaries from other civilizations? Like requesting archers from the elves to bolster my crossbowdorfs and then paying for it through the normal trade caravan or some other means. Conversely, could your parent civilization levy your soldiers to help in other wars or to defend other forts?
Will we see the return of the alchemist and their soap making antics?
1. Will other planes of existence have sites in them? Last FotF reply you said a group of wizards could possibly take over a plane of existence.
2. If other planes of existence have sites on them might settlements and wars on those planes be possible?
3. Will cross planar war be possible?
4. Will it be possible for gods or god like entities to set up sites in their home planes such as holy kingdoms.
5. Will it be possible in some worlds to have a god or godlike entity that goes to the normal plane and rules as a god king/queen/non gender specific ruler.
What exactly does the CE_ERRATIC_BEHAVIOR token do? I thought it made dwarves start fights at random occasionally when drunk but I'm not sure if thats attributed to the token itself or due to arguments that happen in fort mode that the player just doesnt see.
In the new version coming up, strange moods are tracked in world generation. Does it only apply to civilizations or could I, say, give gnomes the ability to have strange moods and therefore have non-civ creatures creating artifacts?
...
Strange moods are currently a creature-level token, hence why I ask about giving it to non-civ creatures.
With the current split between body and soul, and upcoming features regarding this, when will a being count as dead? When their original body dies? When their current body dies? When their "core body" dies (if it's some kind of hive-mind creature)? Or, if the being could survive without a body (i.e. some body-possessing spirit), when their soul is banished or destroyed in some way? Will beings whose souls reside in items die when the item is destroyed?
Will myth/magic extend to medical care? For example, potions, rituals, etc? And will the dwarves perform such cures even if they may not actually be effective (more myth than fact)? Could they even perform dangerous treatments that later get learned away by scholars?
i) Will the equipment and/or environment of temples have any impact on the concept of "holiness" of the sanctum? For example a displayed perfect gem (as artefact) for a deity connected with juwels, tons of displayed gold coins for wealth, a lovely water pond for water, etc.?
ii) Is it planned to add a FAIL-option in crafting? For example a dabbling stoneworker works on a rock mug with the effect of destroying his stone for no result?
iii) Will there be divine knowledge? For example a proficient mathematician gets a vision by Banach, Deity of Norms, which he afterwards can ponder on in his library?
1. If an person breaks the behavior required to get a specific afterlife will there be ways in some worlds to atone for their sins to regain access to that afterlife? Possibly through penance?
2. What are some bizarre corruption ideas you'd eventually like to make possible in worlds with magic?
I've recently been trying to teach myself to play the guitar and have been learning to play the DF theme musics. The main theme is very challenging! It is a complicated and nuanced piece and you must be quite musically talented to have written it, let alone play it.
If I may ask, what was your writing/development process like for the main theme? Will we perhaps ever see some more of your musical/guitar work, as additional soundtracks for Dwarf Fortress or otherwise?
I get the impression that the upcoming magic framework will draw on a wide range of influences, both historical and otherwise, for its many permutations. Will it include the concept of magical body-parts, as seen in various parts of Africa? These organs might be species-wide (e.g. goblin-tongues having efficacy for illusions) or caste-specific (e.g. beards being used for martial potions) or the result of certain abnormalities (e.g. the livers of albino dwarves combating the effects of alcohol.)
Assuming the answer to my first question is "Yes," will historical figures respond to the existence of mystical organs? Will we see goblin bandits prowling the land for unwitting donors, then selling their finds to apothecaries? Might black-markets pop up as a result?
What exactly happens when our troops arrive at a site for a raid? I've had a few instances now where my troops will show up at a populated site to raid, only to report back that they couldn't find anything. What exactly are they looking for in a raid? Isn't it just a generic "kill some folks, steal stuff if you can" order?
Quote from: InariusFor now, artifact are most of the time stored just after created, and never "used" again after, whatever they are. They can just be stolen, or passed over, or given. Is there any further plans for artifacts, as giving them a bigger role (like a legendary sword actually used to kill) or is it the way you have imagined it ?Quote from: UntrustedlifeAnd, what are your plans moving forward with artifacts?
Hey toady, update is pretty cool so far, but im wondering, is there a way to ask about an artifact im looking for, it doenst show up in asking for directions.
Way back when work on this release started, you mentioned that worldgen moods might have a chance of failing, in the dramatic way they do in player fortresses. Did this make it into the release (yet)?
Haven't noticed anything while browsing Legends, but not sure what I'd be looking for. I've noticed some pretty difficult to get hold of materials are being used for artifacts, so I guess they have an easier time of it.
So, visitors are jumping the gun a little and turning up before you have a tavern/temple right now due to some bug or whatever. That's fine, and I guess you're working on a fix. But my question is, are the early monster slayers also part of this bug? I kind of like that they show up early. I can't imagine monster hunters requiring a room in a tavern before they march off happily into your caverns. Bunch of dwarves about to strike the earth? Can only result in the kind of Fun a monster slayer lives for!
Are there currently any plans to allow civs to go to war with one another over values, rather than only over ethics? This would allow for civs from the same entity raw to go to war with one another. For example humans fighting other humans, which now can only be done by adding a new human entity raw.
Will we ever get towns that simply don't like strangers in general and will express that? A lot of good stories come from those sorts of villages/towns in fantasy. And in horror (eg, the shadow over innsmouth by hp Lovecraft)
Corruption of various sorts has come up in the notes for magic multiple times, but I haven't noticed one particular subject, the corruption of artifacts. Could we see the magical properties of an artifact altered after its creation? For instance, a priest or avatar of a god of death is slain and the artifact scepter that sprays miasma is taken by a fire demon who then corrupts it to instead shoot gouts of flame? Could we see an adventurer's named weapon of mundane origin imbued with magical properties as the result of their interaction/relation to some god, spirit, or demon?
are you planning on adding any more to the xml output during this set of releases? Artifact descriptions and instruments would be great.
What are the major limiting factors of world gen STRANGE MOODS artifacts? In the process of updating my mods, I moved the token from one race that basically spammed artifacts to one that apparently is uninterested in creating artifacts.
1. There's general "harass the population of a civ" raid and "acquire artifact" raid. Will you be implementing raids that try to take over a settlement by killing and otherwise incapacitating the defenders and claim the settlement for the raider's civ?
2. Because of the whole religion and artifacts things and tombs being a thing, will there gonna be an expansion of the tomb structures where dead civ members or at least historical figures get buried if anyone finds their bodies? And will the important figures be able to be buried with artifacts?
3. If there are some methods of bringing back dead people eventually, will civs have differing opinions about resurrection?
For example, one civ might forbid acts of resurrection while the other not only allow them but encourage them
Fake/secret/new identities. i.e. Stozu could just take on a new identity as Amxu, but instead of telling people they're whole new person they could tell that one part of their reputation doesn't hold.Quote from: Fleeting FramesWill the (justly or not) suspected artifact thieves have a way of clearing their name? Or is the suspicion something they'll just have to deal with on their job?
I'm not sure what this is referring to. If there's a rumor of somebody taking an artifact, it is true, the way the game works now.
I've stayed away from them as they are in a nebulous state, if I recollect. They do make sense as future display furniture.
there's a chunky Montreal talk coming up in the first half of December as well that I'm still composing.Montreal as in Montréal, Qc, Canada? As part of which event or convention are you speaking?
Quote from: ZM5A question regarding the fix for tree-dwarves that was announced; will this apply to flier pathfinding as well? Would make modded flier civs actually playable, as well as preventing flying animal people visitors from being stuck in mid-air.
I haven't tried it, but some of it is using acrobatic pathfinding floods when your idle code fails, and technically that should get a flier to the ground, but that only applies to your civ members. It doesn't fix broader issues with flying civs.
The planar/magical landform rewrite code is likely going to lead to a change to how caverns work as well; might as well clean up all the quibbles there if the underlying structures are going to be roasted.What sort of quibbles and how far does the notion of a "quibble" or underlying structure extend to? Strictly map-gen related or just "in general" or super secret !!fun!! things you want to do in caverns/underground again?
Quote from: MachinaMandalaIn the new version coming up, strange moods are tracked in world generation. Does it only apply to civilizations or could I, say, give gnomes the ability to have strange moods and therefore have non-civ creatures creating artifacts?
...
Strange moods are currently a creature-level token, hence why I ask about giving it to non-civ creatures.
It happens during the job advancement code, and it's much more common for the crafting professions, especially for weapons and armor in world gen. So I think they'd need to be at a site with an entity, since job advancement is currently governed by that.
1. Pillaging-type option practically guaranteed, with unknown specifity depending on how any non-artifact loot options work. We're flirting with the idea of having a simple administrator and tribute system before we do magic, since it'd be pretty straightforward and the civ screen is underutilized, though I'm not remotely promising anything at this point
2. At some point we should do more with tombs. We should do artifacts in tombs certainly, to tempt people to raid them.
Quote from: FantasticDorfQuestion 1 - If you are personally in charge of a army in adventure mode (or some kind of abstract fortress mode) will the player have any say in how a battle's victorious result is handled or will it be pre-determined? Such as determining a slaughter of the inhabitants in order to move in your own entity (typically building on top) or integrating them with a forced administrator (alternatively just pillaging/razing the place and running back home) with some small details of additional policy.
It's unclear what is going to happen when we get to that point. We haven't focused on army or political stuff yet. I'd prefer if players leading armies get to make the important decisions themselves, but the specifics are up in the air as usual.
I imagine we'll get quite a few new options, as it's a fun, new screen that has a lot of room to grow quickly with great game benefits.
Is it possible for civilizations off the playable map will exist in some form? Could we conceivably have histories where new entities or maybe even new species to invade/migrate to the known world a considerable amount of time after worldgen? Would it be possible in future editions to found a fortress using 'outsider' critters like you can play in adventure mode?
Is it possible for civilizations off the playable map will exist in some form? Could we conceivably have histories where new entities or maybe even new species to invade/migrate to the known world a considerable amount of time after worldgen? Would it be possible in future editions to found a fortress using 'outsider' critters like you can play in adventure mode?Of course it's possible (but that doesn't mean it will be implemented [at least any time soon]). There would probably be no technical difference between a portal to another plane and a portal to a distant, otherwise inaccessible, part of the same plane. The big difference between a sea voyage to a remote continent and a portal is that the latter probably is near instantaneous unless something is introduced there. Extending the world to provide in-world access to new remote parts (e.g. via future boats) is probably harder to implement.
Right now, dwarven culture seems pretty OK with fell moods occurring - even though it involves the explicit murder of a sentient creature. Will we ever see dwarves facing some legal repercussions from creating a fell artifact?I imagine moods will be more defined after mythgen. Exactly what has possessed the dwarf? Is it an act of God?
At the moment, are there any particular conditions that would cause defenders to capture infiltrators rather than kill them outright during raids?They are taken prisoner sometimes so...yes.
The latter.At the moment, are there any particular conditions that would cause defenders to capture infiltrators rather than kill them outright during raids?They are taken prisoner sometimes so...yes.
Or do you mean, 'is it just a random chance between killed and taken prisoner'?
1. Can a player eventually escape an afterlife and return to the material plane? Once the escape, can they affect other living things and doing magical stuff including possessing people and reanimating corpses (and even possessing said corpse including your own)?
2. Will there be rituals that will summon other beings from another plane(basically teleporting them into the plane of the summoner)? for example a ritual to call the spirits of the dead from the afterlife to do what the summoner wants (e.g.
talking to their loved ones and asking them questions or using them on enemies and even stuff them into corpses including their own) or a ritual that calls the !FUN! from any plane that has them. Could it be extended to any creatures on the same plane?
3. Will gods and other deities have their own avatars? Can avatars have that aura that affects anything inside it? (e.g. avatars of gods of death have aura that can make living things sick. gods of fires and other elements have different aura) Can the avatars have the associated power as their god of origin?
Toady, you're a genius, man! That's what to be expected for a guy who managed to create a partially complete simulation of fantasy life and still developing it.
Worried if you're completing 1.00.00 at old age :(
Toady, you're a genius, man! That's what to be expected for a guy who managed to create a partially complete simulation of fantasy life and still developing it.
Worried if you're completing 1.00.00 at old age :(
I read somewhere that he anticipated not being able to complete DF and could make DF open-source if he feels like he can't finish it in time.
I guess we need to fund a security system then and bodyguards if he ever leaves his house.Toady, you're a genius, man! That's what to be expected for a guy who managed to create a partially complete simulation of fantasy life and still developing it.
Worried if you're completing 1.00.00 at old age :(
I read somewhere that he anticipated not being able to complete DF and could make DF open-source if he feels like he can't finish it in time.
He has said that when he dies he will probably will the source code to the public. He has also decreed that if somebody killed him to get the source code, the code should not be released.
Is inter-planar travel going to allow us to send expeditions to "obtain" artefacts from other dimensions, or even pass through other dimensions to inaccessible parts of the world? It would be an interesting state of affairs if we couldn't get a boat or ship to get across the ocean to the Empty Continent andProbably, once portals are two way and you control parties sent through portals (the current model of sending off a party and await a report would probably not know how to navigate across a different plane to a second portal without additional effort). That's a fair bit off, though (but might actually happen before there are boats...).stealreclaim The Crown of Fire, but could send an expedition through a portal to do so.
Do you have any plans to introduce the coral, amber, and pearl materials that exist in the RAWs?
Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Eventually...Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
Eventually...Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
😀
Woah. Thats kinda of fast. Maybe Toady should slow down, think it over 8bEventually...Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
😀
Just a few years. :D
Woah. Thats kinda of fast. Maybe Toady should slow down, think it over 8bEventually...Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
😀
Just a few years. :D
That's not quite the same, though. You'll be able to edit a preexisting world, but creating your own templates is another matter entirely.Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
... 1. Can a player eventually escape an afterlife and return to the material plane? Once the escape, can they affect other living things and doing magical stuff including possessing people and reanimating corpses (and even possessing said corpse including your own)?
2. Will there be rituals that will summon other beings from another plane(basically teleporting them into the plane of the summoner)? for example a ritual to call the spirits of the dead from the afterlife to do what the summoner wants (e.g. talking to their loved ones and asking them questions or using them on enemies and even stuff them into corpses including their own) or a ritual that calls the !FUN! from any plane that has them. Could it be extended to any creatures on the same plane?
Yeah, its what I meant - being able to create your own templates for site types, both civ sites and beast lairs - possibly allowing support for different habits than the current ones as well. I'd love for some megas, i.e ettins, to, lets say, have cages full of prisoners, set up in a line next to a large table with a cleaver stuck to it and meat in a bucket next to it, or like the old tentacle demons just having caged prisoners with the implications being obvious - basically little small story stuff that adds a bit of flavour, allows for new mission types as well.That's not quite the same, though. You'll be able to edit a preexisting world, but creating your own templates is another matter entirely.Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.
Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
It'd be nice to have more template stuff to work with, especially with what materials cities can be built out of / layouts.
In fact...
Toady, would you consider spending a release cycle adding more modding functionality (like the template stuff mentioned in this thread) and maybe fixing bugs / improving pathfinding?
I have no doubt people would complain because of a lack of features, but a code rewrite might be a good idea even if it took a year.
He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)
What is a "real" bugfix cycle? Because many of the bugs on mantis are a problem with temporary systems that will go away later, so completely emptying mantis is not possible at this point.
A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
The answer is no. There may be more or less emphasis on bug fixing (it was "less" in the last arc), but every arc aims at moving DF forward along some dimension. As therahedwig said, system rewrites are the main places where bugs in those rewrites are addressed. When/if something is considered actually finished I would guess fixing bugs in those systems get increased priority.He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)
A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
Yea. Screw this all This Fake Bug Fixing. Its a faccade and charade all this time. I'm onto you Toady, and your fake bug fixing!He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)
A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
Is Dwarf Fortress losing a battle against itself in terms of FPS? As DF keeps getting more complex, I see people getting more and more desperate to maintain a playable FPS. If people are forced to embark on small worlds with 5 year histories to maintain a playable FPS, isn't that leaving much of the game behind? How possible will it be to increase processing efficiency going forward without reworking the whole game? I worry about a future where DF has more and more features, and players are forced to disable more and more of them to make the game playable.
I suppose I could phrase it another way: What is the target? What size world, length of history, embark size, and number of dwarves should we be able to have, and what FPS should we have with those conditions?
Mythgen looks like it'll be a massive update replacing lots of old systems...
Myth & Magic is far too large to fit in one arc. This arc will probably last a bit over half a year more, and the next arc will probably be scheduled to take 1 year. I reckon the next arc's first release will appear about two years from now.Mythgen looks like it'll be a massive update replacing lots of old systems...
so next arc update will be ~3 years out.
Well, the plan is for that not to happen, but we'll see when it gets closer to the time development actually starts, I guess. In the meantime, enjoy the rapid updates for the next few months (when they eventually start).Mythgen looks like it'll be a massive update replacing lots of old systems...
so next arc update will be ~3 years out.
1. You mentioned that corruptions can affect a person's memory such as forgetting their friends, how would this work for a player adventurer? Would they just not know about certain people any more?1. Probably.
2. One of the needs our adventurers can have is to be with friends, how would our adventurers go about acquiring friends once such activities are eventually added?
3. In some worlds where magic exists once someone gets physically corrupted would others react badly to them? Would they're friends and family be more likely to accept them after the corruption occurs?
4. Some of the corruptions in the myth and magic screen shots don't seem necessarily bad, an example being "becoming more dreamlike", would such corruptions actually improve a person's social appeal to others?
1. Once player adventurers are able to marry people how would they go about doing it?So, as with all questions that dont pretain to whats being worked on right now. The answer is. "Sounds good, no time table." Or "I have to check my notes."
2. Would marriage customs vary among civilizations?
3. One need our adventurers can have is make love, would it be possible to satisfy this need through other means besides marrying and having a spouse?
4. Once the myth and magic arc is complete in worlds where people can get reincarnated will that occur through their souls going to new born babies?
5. If so will the child have all the memories from their past life immediately or will they get them at a delayed pace or will they not know their past life at all?
6. In worlds with magic and corruptions would corruptions be possible that affect a magic user's descendants, for example one such corruption being all their children will be born with extra eyes.
7. Can some corruptions be inherited from magic user parent to child?
8. Will curses be possible that affect the offender's descendants instead or as well as them?
Do you plan on adding funeral rites?"Sounds good, no schedule, check notes". Probably.
Do you plan on adding funeral rites?"Sounds good, no schedule, check notes". Probably.
In the long term, do you see the emulation of bureaucratic functions necessary, or best left abstracted? Both for worldgen history keeping, as well as active-fortress and adventure level actions.
For instance, attempting to get a loan from a local banker, or making written dictations of laws on sites by siteholders.
The question doesn't concern whether these actions can happen, but whether the guts and causes of said actions would occur (paperwork, people passing along dictations among groups, et cetera).
Perhaps. But "Possible expansion of religious and family concepts..." comes under starting scenarios (which seems to be everything society, law and politics related) so it may not be until later.Do you plan on adding funeral rites?"Sounds good, no schedule, check notes". Probably.
Probably will come in together with magic&myths.
The long-term (as in, 20 years) plan is for almost nothing to be abstracted, so there's that.
Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?
Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
I misremembered it slightly; the slab purportedly read "Woe to you that disturbs my resting place. I am watching still"Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
fake, "i am watching" is not in the string dump
Here you go. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149163.msg6086961#msg6086961)Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
Link to thread?
I misremembered it slightly; the slab purportedly read "Woe to you that disturbs my resting place. I am watching still"Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
fake, "i am watching" is not in the string dump
However, you're right, as that's not in the string-dump either. There's " watches still," but that obviously doesn't work for the first-person. Good catch, that.Here you go. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149163.msg6086961#msg6086961)Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?There is that weird thing with the slab that reads "I am watching" and the mysterious dwarf face that pops up afterwards, which only one person has encountered.
Link to thread?
Is this...half-baked creepypasta based off a misreading of the mummy slab text, really? Oh great Meatgod, save us from the degeneracy we've sunken to. :VLet us not forget the fake Demon of Lies screenshot. That one spread to both the subreddit and TVTropes, despite having nothing resembling genuine dialogue.
Is this...half-baked creepypasta based off a misreading of the mummy slab text, really? Oh great Meatgod, save us from the degeneracy we've sunken to. :V
Here's the original. (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/2a6xdf/i_have_heard_of_plans_to_assassinate_the_king/)Is this...half-baked creepypasta based off a misreading of the mummy slab text, really? Oh great Meatgod, save us from the degeneracy we've sunken to. :V
Note that that was created 2 years ago. Also, link to demon of lies?
Will the magic system allow for blood magic and fleshwarping/crafting powers, possibly akin to something like the SCP Foundation's Sarkic Cults, or the Flesh Golems in D&D? Will we be able to make horrific abominations and tame them?
I'm also interested in knowing if holy relics will enable the user to call upon divine power, whether instant death/save or die spells will be implemented or not, and whether or not the player will be able to specify spell-based weather in worldgen, e.g make it rain healing potion or rain the components needed for a constant death or poison curse in the affected area.
So yeah, fleshwarping could be a thing then, possibly based in the DISEASE, DEFORMITY, ANIMALS and NATURE spheres?
Will we be able to make horrific abominations and tame them?
1. In some worlds with magic if two people from two different families that both had magic bloodlines had a child would that child have access to the magic from both bloodlines?
2. One of the activities listed on the development page is helping or hindering bloodlines. Hindering seems simple enough as a player adventurer could just slaughter all the people of that blood line but how would we go about helping a bloodline?
3. In some worlds with magic would it be possible for a magic bloodline to be created post world gen through some magical event turning a normal bloodline magical?
4. In worlds with magic would people of a magic bloodline be given special treatment in some civilizations and if so can you give some possible examples of the special treatment they may receive?
1. In some worlds with magic if two people from two different families that both had magic bloodlines had a child would that child have access to the magic from both bloodlines?2. One rather straightforward way of helping a bloodline is to slaughter those who try to hinder it... Less straight forward means would be to help their economic, social, or military standing, as well as to perform tasks that might increase the potency of the blood (rituals, component collection, marriage negotiations...).
2. One of the activities listed on the development page is helping or hindering bloodlines. Hindering seems simple enough as a player adventurer could just slaughter all the people of that blood line but how would we go about helping a bloodline?
3. In some worlds with magic would it be possible for a magic bloodline to be created post world gen through some magical event turning a normal bloodline magical?
4. In worlds with magic would people of a magic bloodline be given special treatment in some civilizations and if so can you give some possible examples of the special treatment they may receive?
Regarding the current tokens, what exactly do some of the tokens, i.e ANIMAL_ALWAYS_MOUNT, entail?According to file changes.txt, those tokens override the creature raws and make these creatures always/never to be the appropriate role.
Does it mean that all animals in the selected group will be used as mounts, regardless of whether they have that token or not, or does it only apply to animals that actually do have the mount tokens?
*Kobold sieges mounted on cats soon become the bane of every one of my fortresses*I just got dark elves mounted on giant ravens. They had a ton of pets with them, but opted for the ravens as mounts just because of how cool it looks.
Is revenge for your civs failed raids/sieges or against groups who've raided them going to be an option during this release? Say, outpost liaison tells you how one of the greatest generals of the civ was captured during a siege, and they'll give you so many urists worth of stuff for free in the next caravan or they'll promise a large steel shipment or something similar in return for his return?
1.Will there be a craetion scale events after world gen like humens creation or a forest become a desert?
2.will myth and magic effect dwarves preferenses like Urist McOpellover like dogs becuse they created Opel in the Myth or you can make Opel from dogs bones?
What I meant in the first question wasn't about magic1.Will there be a craetion scale events after world gen like humens creation or a forest become a desert?
2.will myth and magic effect dwarves preferenses like Urist McOpellover like dogs becuse they created Opel in the Myth or you can make Opel from dogs bones?
Yes to both. In some worlds. Why do people assume there will be a single magic system?
What I meant in the first question wasn't about magic1.Will there be a craetion scale events after world gen like humens creation or a forest become a desert?
2.will myth and magic effect dwarves preferenses like Urist McOpellover like dogs becuse they created Opel in the Myth or you can make Opel from dogs bones?
Yes to both. In some worlds. Why do people assume there will be a single magic system?
When has saving dwarven lives ever been a priority for this community? :P
Well obviously in that case you wouldn't want them to die. It was just a questionable attempt at humour.
How did you come up with the name Bay12?Aliens
How did you come up with the name Bay12?Aliens
How did you come up with the name Bay12?Aliens
actually the correct answer (https://youtu.be/kXs1lB0y6bM?t=62)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/278725916841213953/396172004958404629/unknown.png)
Why are we no longer able to "join as heathperson?" Is there a reason for this? . . .
What is the near term fate of intelligent/can-learn animal prisoners? Any chance they'll ever get access to the petition screen to be released or apply for citizenship? ~SNIP~.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/278725916841213953/396172004958404629/unknown.png)
Why are we no longer able to "join as heathperson?" Is there a reason for this? . . .
I don't doubt that you couldn't ask that particular lord, but Toady didn't remove that option.
From 44.03:
(http://burnedfx.com/DF/JoinServiceHearthperson.png)
Maybe you're asking the lord's consort rather than, such a question probably could have been asked & answered on another thread rather than specifically greenied for toady to answer if its not in regards to the development process.nah, im asking lords. (I only play adventure mode, and alot of it, and im one of the main contributors to that part of the wiki -_- been here awhile, long time, years anyway. )
<snip>. . .But, my main query was about artifacts and is perhaps getting the ability to ask about them.did you create this world in 44.03?
What exactly is required for a spouse converter to actually transform their prisoners?... SNIP...There's a bit of luck involved with regards whether night trolls transform civ members, even among the in-game generated ones. Reviewing those, they have [NIGHT_CREATURE_HUNTER], [BIOME]s, [LAIR]s, [LARGE_PREDATOR], [SUPERNATURAL], one caste with [SPOUSE_CONVERTER], and one caste with [CONVERTED_SPOUSE] (though more castes of each do work, I've done that myself). The same applies to my hag and beast scripts, and the night creatures in my mod, which do reproduce at least occasionally (except the one with DIFFICULTY:11, but that's by design).
i don't know where it might be particularly found on the development plan or a appropriate place where it falls if Toady has even thought about it in-depth.
http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html
(Toady: The planar/magical landform rewrite code is likely going to lead to a change to how caverns work as well; might as well clean up all the quibbles there if the underlying structures are going to be roasted.)
What sort of quibbles and how far does the notion of a "quibble" or underlying structure extend to? Strictly map-gen related or just "in general" or super secret !!fun!! things you want to do in caverns/underground again?
- Geology-wise: What displeases you most about caves/underground at the present? Absence of features? Difficulty in access or travelling through? Lack of variety in flora/fauna? Bugs and errors, or oddities that are just annoyingly inconsistent?
- Equally, even if you are displeased by something currently, how likely would those things be to actually be DIRECTLY hit by the planar/magical landform re-write? I can definitely imagine something being done like each cavern layer being its own little plane of existence...
- BUT before i go any further with that, i should admit that last paragraph really just begins to sound like a suggestion list of features... It's very easy to get carried away with this. So: How do you intend to say "Ok, that's enough, for now."
- Lastly, about the "rewrite" itself ... If the events in the myth generator specifically influence the map generation at a fundamental "underlying structures" level, how intense of a rewrite would that actually be, without dealing with these "quibbles" at all? Not asking for an ETA, just how many times you'd have to press "delete" or "//" on the code. (Like, a % that would just be "gone" by the end of it.)
With pillaging & site seizing realizations, could [POWER] (and power value) dreams of 'own the entire world' be realised through continuous play on fortress mode eventually?
A problem i can see with non-mission based indiscriminate pillaging is weight restrictions carrying your loot home do you have any plans for how fortress players could tackle this issue (ei assigned pack animals) or will feasibly the game will generate caravans for purpose?
A while ago in the late July-August FotF response even though the original question was broad in the scope of a full army, how will have this position have changed for the next few releases with outbound dwarf groups and will our pillagers be able to raze a site if they havent depopulated it into a ruin first?
Is it possible for civilizations off the playable map will exist in some form? Could we conceivably have histories where new entities or maybe even new species to invade/migrate to the known world a considerable amount of time after worldgen? Would it be possible in future editions to found a fortress using 'outsider' critters like you can play in adventure mode?
Right now, dwarven culture seems pretty OK with fell moods occurring - even though it involves the explicit murder of a sentient creature. Will we ever see dwarves facing some legal repercussions from creating a fell artifact?
At the moment, are there any particular conditions that would cause defenders to capture infiltrators rather than kill them outright during raids?
3. Will gods and other deities have their own avatars? Can avatars have that aura that affects anything inside it? (e.g. avatars of gods of death have aura that can make living things sick. gods of fires and other elements have different aura) Can the avatars have the associated power as their god of origin?
will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions?
being able to create your own templates for site types, both civ sites and beast lairs - possibly allowing support for different habits than the current ones as well. I'd love for some megas, i.e ettins, to, lets say, have cages full of prisoners, set up in a line next to a large table with a cleaver stuck to it and meat in a bucket next to it, or like the old tentacle demons just having caged prisoners with the implications being obvious - basically little small story stuff that adds a bit of flavour, allows for new mission types as well.
Were worldgen artifacts supposed to be just masterwork quality with the artifact flags set?
Do said artifact flags imbue the relevant accuracy/indestructibility benefits beyond having a name/tracked history?
Were items an adventurer names supposed to get anything beyond being named?
Was the rumors list supposed to end up with dozens of pages about how a particular artifact is absent from every site you've visited and didn't see it at, or should that be another bug report?
Do you plan on adding any more (l)ocations?
Is Dwarf Fortress losing a battle against itself in terms of FPS? As DF keeps getting more complex, I see people getting more and more desperate to maintain a playable FPS. If people are forced to embark on small worlds with 5 year histories to maintain a playable FPS, isn't that leaving much of the game behind? How possible will it be to increase processing efficiency going forward without reworking the whole game? I worry about a future where DF has more and more features, and players are forced to disable more and more of them to make the game playable.
I suppose I could phrase it another way: What is the target? What size world, length of history, embark size, and number of dwarves should we be able to have, and what FPS should we have with those conditions?
1. You mentioned that corruptions can affect a person's memory such as forgetting their friends, how would this work for a player adventurer? Would they just not know about certain people any more?
2. One of the needs our adventurers can have is to be with friends, how would our adventurers go about acquiring friends once such activities are eventually added?
3. In some worlds where magic exists once someone gets physically corrupted would others react badly to them? Would they're friends and family be more likely to accept them after the corruption occurs?
4. Some of the corruptions in the myth and magic screen shots don't seem necessarily bad, an example being "becoming more dreamlike", would such corruptions actually improve a person's social appeal to others?
1. Once player adventurers are able to marry people how would they go about doing it?
2. Would marriage customs vary among civilizations?
3. One need our adventurers can have is make love, would it be possible to satisfy this need through other means besides marrying and having a spouse?
4. Once the myth and magic arc is complete in worlds where people can get reincarnated will that occur through their souls going to new born babies?
5. If so will the child have all the memories from their past life immediately or will they get them at a delayed pace or will they not know their past life at all?
6. In worlds with magic and corruptions would corruptions be possible that affect a magic user's descendants, for example one such corruption being all their children will be born with extra eyes.
7. Can some corruptions be inherited from magic user parent to child?
8. Will curses be possible that affect the offender's descendants instead or as well as them?
1. In some worlds with magic if two people from two different families that both had magic bloodlines had a child would that child have access to the magic from both bloodlines?
3. In some worlds with magic would it be possible for a magic bloodline to be created post world gen through some magical event turning a normal bloodline magical?
Have you given thought to upgrading to SDL 2.0?
In the long term, do you see the emulation of bureaucratic functions necessary, or best left abstracted? Both for worldgen history keeping, as well as active-fortress and adventure level actions.
For instance, attempting to get a loan from a local banker, or making written dictations of laws on sites by siteholders.
The question doesn't concern whether these actions can happen, but whether the guts and causes of said actions would occur (paperwork, people passing along dictations among groups, et cetera).
Are there any easter eggs still hidden in the game that players haven't found yet?
what about if one of those [ALWAYS] tokens isn't present but the creature still has, lets say, a mount role innately? Will they still be used as that role?
Is revenge for your civs failed raids/sieges or against groups who've raided them going to be an option during this release? Say, outpost liaison tells you how one of the greatest generals of the civ was captured during a siege, and they'll give you so many urists worth of stuff for free in the next caravan or they'll promise a large steel shipment or something similar in return for his return?
1.Will there be a craetion scale events after world gen like humens creation or a forest become a desert?
2.will myth and magic effect dwarves preferenses like Urist McOpellover like dogs becuse they created Opel in the Myth or you can make Opel from dogs bones?
The "claims" made on Fortress Mode made artifacts are just "flavor text" for the purposes of the creating fortress, correct? There's no current or near-future fortress impact based on claims like: "He/She offers it to <entity>", "He/she claims it as a family heirloom", "He/she claims it as a family heirloom in the name of the family ancestor <figure>", "He/she claims it as a personal treasure", etc., even if lost and recovered within that same Fortress Mode play-through?
I've seen Twitch streamers begin to plot the unexpected deaths of valued weaponsmiths they thought were going to hide an artifact steel battle axe in their bedroom, so many dwarven lives could be saved depending on a clear answer here!
is it intentional that criminals and mercenaries cannot have creature tiles specified for them?
A few questions about dummied-out features:
1) How did the game classify demonic fortresses? Were they landscape features (like volcanoes and streams,) a property of map-tiles (like savagery or elevation,) or something else entirely?
2) What purpose did Important Locations serve?
3) Why were human forts removed?
do you plan to set it up so we can ask about certain artifacts at some point? Like with the next few releases or no? Makes it much harder to seek artifacts heh
What is the near term fate of intelligent/can-learn animal prisoners? Any chance they'll ever get access to the petition screen to be released or apply for citizenship? It seems cruel that I can make a gremlin my mayor, I can tame a cave croc and breed it, but a learning-capable troll or rodent person blunders into a trap and it's gotta die.
I love the infodump when you show artifacts and get the "yes, don't need that, don't need that... oooh, soandso wants THAT back, and I really would appreciate you returning THIS to us if you don't mind" popup.
Having those to check on rumors to ask about is also handy, but was the spam of "absence of item x at site w, u, v, y, z, and so on" intentional or should I check if there is already a bug report for that?
Also love being able to babble prophesies, are there other hidden-ish options available under other identities?
Quote from: JapaHave you given thought to upgrading to SDL 2.0?
Ah, I don't know anything about it, or why it might be necessary vs. the issues/annoyances in doing so. Generally messing with the SDL code is beyond me to do on my own.
Quote from: JapaHave you given thought to upgrading to SDL 2.0?
Ah, I don't know anything about it, or why it might be necessary vs. the issues/annoyances in doing so. Generally messing with the SDL code is beyond me to do on my own.
It supports multiple windows that mods could use.
Quote from: burnedis it intentional that criminals and mercenaries cannot have creature tiles specified for them?
CRIMINAL is in the list of supported unit types. If PEDDLER, PROPHET, PILGRIM and MONK are working, I have no idea why CRIMINAL isn't. Mercenary and monster slayer are a bit weird since they are tied to occupations now, and sometimes it uses the occupation rather than unit type; I'd have to poke around with that, and a bug report would be warranted if it is acting weird.
I don't have specific plans in the near-term, but I imagine it'll keep coming up. These are the 'structures' from legends; so theoretically stuff like dungeons would already be supportable (not that they really mean anything), and when new things are added throughout the world, they can be considered for the fort, much like the taverns and libraries.
When gods are generated, they get a sphere and some spheres related to that. Any chance I could get a list of which spheres are related?As far as I'm aware, the spere relations have not changed since their introduction, and those are given in the 0.28.181.40d (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Sphere) version of the Sphere wiki page.
As far as I'm aware, the spere relations have not changed since their introduction, and those are given in the 0.28.181.40d (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Sphere) version of the Sphere wiki page.Thanks! I never would have found that.
Yeah, it is quite hidden away.As far as I'm aware, the spere relations have not changed since their introduction, and those are given in the 0.28.181.40d (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Sphere) version of the Sphere wiki page.Thanks! I never would have found that.
This might belong in the suggestions forum but...a number of fantasy stories out there feature mortal heroes that after a lifetime of great feats manage to achieve literal godhood upon their deaths. Might this possibility eventually be implemented into DF (it'd be quite a surprise following an unusually successful adventuring run to find one of my characters showing up in the deities tab of legends mode after a fatal battle with some terrible monster :P)?
1. Will the actual process of casting magic involves casting procedures with as much, less or more detail as the procedures we currently have for performing music, poetry and dancing?
2. In terms of magic derived from gods would the procedures for casting it be interlinked with religious procedures for that god(ex. ceremony's, rituals etc.) ?
3. Will the attributes needed to be talented at magic be different with each magic system(ex. one magic system relying heavily on creativity while another relying heavily on linguistic ability)?
4. Can you please give some examples of procedures required to cast magic for some systems?
5. Can you please give some examples of magical land masses and their implications on magic in that world?
P.S. May I please have a copy of the myth generator showed off at GDC a few years ago for purposes of day dreaming of future releases?
1. Will the actual process of casting magic involves casting procedures with as much, less or more detail as the procedures we currently have for performing music, poetry and dancing?5. An example of a magic land formation Toady has mentioned a cosmic egg shell.
2. In terms of magic derived from gods would the procedures for casting it be interlinked with religious procedures for that god(ex. ceremony's, rituals etc.) ?
3. Will the attributes needed to be talented at magic be different with each magic system(ex. one magic system relying heavily on creativity while another relying heavily on linguistic ability)?
4. Can you please give some examples of procedures required to cast magic for some systems?
5. Can you please give some examples of magical land masses and their implications on magic in that world?
P.S. May I please have a copy of the myth generator showed off at GDC a few years ago for purposes of day dreaming of future releases?
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.If you need tips about improving performance: What sort of computer build do you use?
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.If you need tips about improving performance: What sort of computer build do you use?
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
One thing I've noticed when reading about is that DF's bottleneck ussually isn't processor (though having a good processor helps), but rather the RAM read-write access times. If you can get RAM with both low latency and high frequency, it goes a long way.
I've actually been tempted to make a build with CAS latency 3 ram and see how fast that runs things.
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.What about it made you sad? What I got from it is that he hasn't noticed a significant increase in complaints (not that there haven't been many), besides a few issues introduced in 0.44 which he fixed, and he's aware of other improvements that could be made without a major rewrite (i.e. they're not too hard), and it's an ongoing process, but he doesn't have specific plans to make specific changes immediately.
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.If you need tips about improving performance: What sort of computer build do you use?
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
One thing I've noticed when reading about is that DF's bottleneck ussually isn't processor (though having a good processor helps), but rather the RAM read-write access times. If you can get RAM with both low latency and high frequency, it goes a long way.
I've actually been tempted to make a build with CAS latency 3 ram and see how fast that runs things.
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.I guess my question is: What is an offcial complaint? Do we like make a petition on change.org or do we like do a letter writing campaign? Do we all like wear little colored wrist bands that we support the cause of better fps?
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
Toady's FPS response really made me sad. It's the one thing preventing me from enjoying this game as I like to have an established fortress but I can't be bothered to play a game at 5-15fps. It's certainly a complaint from many of my friends so I'm not sure how there hasn't been many official complaints unless folks are just scared of complaining about it.What about it made you sad? What I got from it is that he hasn't noticed a significant increase in complaints (not that there haven't been many), besides a few issues introduced in 0.44 which he fixed, and he's aware of other improvements that could be made without a major rewrite (i.e. they're not too hard), and it's an ongoing process, but he doesn't have specific plans to make specific changes immediately.
Seems about the only major problem with this amazing game. Of course, Toady owes us nothing, and sure has given us something so I'm thankful for what we have. I just wish I could enjoy a larger or longer-lived fortress. :(
I doubt we can progress in any reasonable way without a major rewrite now.This, but to prevent ancient code from gumming up the works. Obviously, Toady cannot be expected to remember every facet of his colossus, but I'd hate for the sort of problems he's had with raids to become the norm.
Isn't mythgen supposed to majorly rewrite many aspects of the game? If we're lucky, FPS will be one of the things addressed.
Isn't mythgen supposed to majorly rewrite many aspects of the game? If we're lucky, FPS will be one of the things addressed.And the thing that results in evetual fps cant be fix. You eventually reveal to many tiles, you eventually have to many items.
Unlikely, as the main culprits of low performance has nothing to do with world generation and world events and is mostly tied to pathfinding, temperature calculations and tracking of itens.
1. Once our adventurers get to have families if our adventurers have ruler parents would that make them royalty in some civilizations?I can't say for sure, but besides what's already in the dev notes, there's a good chance that absolutely none of this will have been considered in so much detail yet. Heck, mythgen hasn't been fully planned out yet and that's coming up right after this cycle.
2. Will there eventually be an option to play a character at an age younger than adult?(aka child adventurers)
3. How much politics will our adventurers eventually be able to engage in? I know currently we can start sites but will our adventurers ever be able to get administrative roles in other civs such as being a diplomat, general, lawmaker etc?
4. When our adventurers are able to have kids in some civilizations will we be able to try to marry them off to other families for various reasons such as political power?
5. If our adventurers are part of a noble family will there be a chance their relatives will try to marry them off for political power?
6. Can you give us some examples of possible in site housing our players will eventually be able to acquire and some ways they could go about doing it?
How much will the loot crates cost?Is that still happening? Was fixed recently.
Nah, but actually
Is there anything planned to deal with dorfs getting stranded in trees when picking fruit? I lost a lot of dwarves to this already,
probably two forts worth.
If someone offered to pay you enough money, would you drop everything and work on getting DF multithreading support?ToadyOne has spoken about turning down such things in the past. He has also talked about how multithreading probably wouldnt improve DF very much, but hes not very well versed in it.
Oh no, does that mean our dwarves will eventually be able to revolt against us?Indeed. Before then we get to watch them stress to suicidal frenzies as our diabolical magical experiments go horribly wrong. This'll be fondly remembered as the Golden Age of DF.
Luckily we still have years to prepare for the inevitable uprising.
If someone offered to pay you enough money, would you drop everything and work on getting DF multithreading support?ToadyOne has spoken about turning down such things in the past. He has also talked about how multithreading probably wouldnt improve DF very much, but hes not very well versed in it.
Multi threading is a very design-specific decision. Unless you know how it actually works, how DF actually works, and the shortcomings of the choice, then suggesting the change is vain.Gosh darn it. Could you provide citation for that? The multi-threading aspect that is.If someone offered to pay you enough money, would you drop everything and work on getting DF multithreading support?ToadyOne has spoken about turning down such things in the past. He has also talked about how multithreading probably wouldnt improve DF very much, but hes not very well versed in it.
I'd join your contribution MrWiggles :P was really wanting to ask the same question...
Multi threading is a very design-specific decision. Unless you know how it actually works, how DF actually works, and the shortcomings of the choice, then suggesting the change is vain.Gosh darn it. Could you provide citation for that? The multi-threading aspect that is.If someone offered to pay you enough money, would you drop everything and work on getting DF multithreading support?ToadyOne has spoken about turning down such things in the past. He has also talked about how multithreading probably wouldnt improve DF very much, but hes not very well versed in it.
I'd join your contribution MrWiggles :P was really wanting to ask the same question...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computing)#Multithreading - A short primer.
Currently, one instances where I think multithreading -could- potentially help is in worldgen. I can't say anything for actually making worldgen faster, but having a thread that accepts user input would be great for canceling worldgen where frame ticks take more than three minutes to advance. Without such an accomodation, the current behavior is that windows thinks that DF is not responding anymore between ticks, and the trying squeeze in they keypress input needed to end worldgen becomes increasingly difficult.
Currently, one instances where I think multithreading -could- potentially help is in worldgen.I Agree.
Multi threading is a very design-specific decision. Unless you know how it actually works, how DF actually works, and the shortcomings of the choice, then suggesting the change is vain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computing)#Multithreading - A short primer.
Given the current state of how dwarves can currently cope with stress extremely well in the long term, how do you see tweaking the stress system going forward?
Is it in it's current state:
-Intentionally, the current dwarven stress resistance (and getting to -999999 stress) with little attention is serving as a baseline.
-On accident, was tuned to an unintentional degree.
-Or in preparation for more intense and common stressors being available in future updates, or a different scaling system upcoming, or similar overhauls?
I am just wondering, because I've been pondering over a mod that makes dwarves more difficult to keep unstressed, and it's really hard to balance with how stress currently works, so I'm just wondering what paradigm you're considering for how dwarves can and should cope with stress.
By your misreading of what I typed as an assumption of me suggesting a change, I'm content with moving on.Current consensus as of recent is that, while processor power helps, another big help is upgrading your RAM, toward improving the frequencies and latency of the memory you'll use, largely due to the fact that DF is constantly in a state of reading and accessing ram addresses, which can bottleneck if your CPU is up to the task. Having enough RAM to begin with isn't difficult, but if you don't have enough ram, that can severely hamper performance too.
Instead, let me ask, how do you reckon one might circumvent the FPS drain beyond limiting the game's potential as a player?
Stress is likely to get some attention (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168313.msg7635225#msg7635225) during this bugfix cycle.Ahh, that's very good, and definitely answers my question. Thank you!
Current consensus as of recent is that, while processor power helps, another big help is upgrading your RAM, toward improving the frequencies and latency of the memory you'll use, largely due to the fact that DF is constantly in a state of reading and accessing ram addresses, which can bottleneck if your CPU is up to the task. Having enough RAM to begin with isn't difficult, but if you don't have enough ram, that can severely hamper performance too.
Ingame, a lot of not-too limiting things can involve cramming as many of your non-grazing non important and baby animals into cages as possible. Using traffic designations can also optimize pathfinding as well for instance, if you designate the doorways of multi-doorway rooms as low traffic, dwarves will be less likely to try to consider a "shortcut" through it, saving on a few processing ticks here and there. Blocking off large unused subterranean areas with forbidden doors will also help reduce the amount of pathfinding that stretches to unneeded areas. That's just a few pieces of advice, anyway. Also apologies if my initial comment were a bit scathing, it honestly largely concerned the original post concerning "How much money would toady accept before he focuses only on x feature" question.
Oh, thank you :) Even if you didn't need to apologize, I really appreciated that!32 GB, that's quite a lot. A lot more than important (once you have "enough", more than enough isn't a big deal). What's the Hz frequency and the CAS latency?
I would say that everything you've typed is something I shall pass on due to its usefulness, though I already utilize such techniques to the best of my ability. However, I purposefully phrased the question with "beyond limiting the game's potential as a player" to highlight that I, as the player, am forced to apply inhibiting techniques (as generously provided), compromising my freedom (not talking mega-projects) when playing the game. Without going into extraneous detail, it's simply go-to advice for players (on any PC, as we're aware) to avoid whole sections of the game (liquids, 3x3 or larger embarks, HFS, caverns even) just to maintain acceptable frames per second (being ideally the starting 100fps speed imposed by the game, but really staying above 35fps at the moment). Consequently, it was more of a "what can be done from the Developer's side to alleviate such issues if Multi-Threading isn't the holy grail?"
My angle though, was wanting to see Toady's stance on the matter as explained by MrWiggle. There are so many opinions for & against multi-threading, that it's utterly pointless debating it with other users. It is, however, the main & most controversial optimization technique to cure what I, perhaps in the minority, consider the single biggest deterrent to this amazing game, being the FPS drag. (bugs don't count :P)
Again, thanks for the advice. In case you're wondering, below is how I've tackled it as the player. If I you bother to read it, would be grateful for any other techniques ???Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And now you see my predicament :P I'm having to loose out on !!FUN!! to attempt to gain more frames per second.
It can be important, in a way, but it largely depends on one's acclimation. I've limited my max fps to 40 from the very start, and I'm used to it to the point where I can pull rather decently populated fortresses with little slowdown from my comfort zone.And now you see my predicament :P I'm having to loose out on !!FUN!! to attempt to gain more frames per second.
I do not care about FPS.
And now you see my predicament :P I'm having to loose out on !!FUN!! to attempt to gain more frames per second.
I do not care about FPS.
32 GB, that's quite a lot. A lot more than important (once you have "enough", more than enough isn't a big deal). What's the Hz frequency and the CAS latency?
Also out of curiosity, what's the population?
Play Dwarf Fortress and Aurora/Stellaris/hearts of Iron 4 together, you'll get used to the slowness and have something to do in boths downtimes.
Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.I'm going to pipe down now :-X
I believe Toady and Threetoe have previously said the answer to this question is "no". The game was made with the goal that it would be the kind of game ThreeToe and Toady would want to play, but in practice they don't actually play their own game.
Do you still play the game for purposes other than testing? And what about Threetoe?
I thought about this after reading the last devlog. Even if you are playing for fun you could still see many problems players won't ever imagine as bugs. Though as DF is very complex and allow very diverse playstyles, most of the problems are very playstyle-oriented, I imagine.
Will creatures with transmissible symptoms be able to intelligently apply their poisonous substances onto an object in order to lay a trap, or otherwise weaponize it for biological warfare? For example, thralls could try to coat doors or loose objects with the dust that created them, so anyone who touches that object becomes another thrall. Or, certain sentient civs might be able to capture a forgotten beast and coat their weapons in the toxic blood/dust of the creature to provide an edge in combat.These dips dangerously into "suggest-questions", which goes in the suggestions forum, more or less.
Also, will there be a way to create temporary pocket dimensions to create bags of holding or similar? I'd like to be able to make a crystal or jar containing soldiers, then throw it at a target and have the dimension in the jar destabilize as the jar shatters, ejecting all of the occupants on top of the target. That, or do the same thing, but fill the jar dimension with lava instead, and make a magical incendiary weapon.
Thirdly, will fleshcrafting and gene manipulation be a possible magic discipline? Will we be able to clone dwarves or summon syndromes as an area-denial weapon?
Lastly, will necromancy be given a more complex skillset, and thus allowing dwarven necromancers to play a greater role in dwarf society? I was hoping to have necromancy be akin to a noble position, requiring a certain quality of room. One could designate the necromancer to raise a corpse, and the raised corpse could have certain skill specializations and respond to the appropriate labors. Better yet, a workshop by the name of Necromancer Altar or similar, where you could order the necro to raise a corpse and give them skills for certain labors. They would be able to perform labors befitting their skillset, but would be unable to improve their skills. If necromancy can be likened to a skill, then a higher necromancer skill level would allow the necromancer to raise corpses with higher skill levels or combinations of skills. Novice necromancers would raise corpses with one Novice level, Adequates could provide undead with 1-2 Adequate skills, and so on. The most proficient or legendary necromancers could raise highly intelligent undead with a wide variety of disciplines. They might even be able to give their undead necromantic skill, for the purposes of delegation or backups should the original necromancer die.
Just a quickie regarding the last devlog - will the new outdoor construction cleaning include roads?
I have a real problem with newly arrived immigrants spewing green all over my nice shiny marble roads! To the point where I now seek out olivine layers :D
Just a quickie regarding the last devlog - will the new outdoor construction cleaning include roads?Drunk driving is dangerous. You shouldn't let them out on the roads in that condition ;)
I have a real problem with newly arrived immigrants spewing green all over my nice shiny marble roads! To the point where I now seek out olivine layers :D
Would this be the case for specific location structures indicated for scenarios, like a dungeon/central jail to keep a prison colony functional and under control? (not meaning exactly a Australia format wherein just being very far away on a strange continent is detainment with nowhere to run to) - rather than just a jail & justice system we have currently.
Have you or threetoe considered constructing an written full psychological profile for dwarves, or other races, as part of development aims and Slaves to Armok canon, or will species psychology take a "feature first" implementation?
By feature first, I mean that the behaviors ingame stand to be canonical for the time being, and (both emergent and intentional) behaviors that come in later version serve largely to supplement this model.
Our dwarves and other species do have a general cultural and behavioral context portrayed by the game's features and snippets combined with the general consensus of what a "dwarf" is, though there are currently quite a few quirks as a result of bugs, limits of current implementation, etc where they seem to differ and vary dramatically in these contexts (for instance, noted complaints that dwarves seem somehow stress-proof to a lot of people as a result of the systems or morales changing, though whether it was aimed at making dwarves more resilient to stressful situations, or as resilient is a bit unclear.) Similar goes for things like the implementation of the currently somewhat implemented engagement level system.
This might belong in the suggestions forum but...a number of fantasy stories out there feature mortal heroes that after a lifetime of great feats manage to achieve literal godhood upon their deaths. Might this possibility eventually be implemented into DF (it'd be quite a surprise following an unusually successful adventuring run to find one of my characters showing up in the deities tab of legends mode after a fatal battle with some terrible monster :P)?
1. Will the actual process of casting magic involves casting procedures with as much, less or more detail as the procedures we currently have for performing music, poetry and dancing?
2. In terms of magic derived from gods would the procedures for casting it be interlinked with religious procedures for that god(ex. ceremony's, rituals etc.) ?
3. Will the attributes needed to be talented at magic be different with each magic system(ex. one magic system relying heavily on creativity while another relying heavily on linguistic ability)?
4. Can you please give some examples of procedures required to cast magic for some systems?
5. Can you please give some examples of magical land masses and their implications on magic in that world?
I think it's been asked before but not specifically in regards to the Focused! status: is there any reason why martial trances seem so rare for adventurers, even in situations where your companions fighting right alongside you activate them, and similarly does being focused/unfocused have any effect on the activation rate?
Could it be related to aiming attacks rather than move-autoattacking or something perhaps?
Are you worried by the general and continuous reduction of activity on the forum for the last 2 years ?
Is there anything planned to deal with dorfs getting stranded in trees when picking fruit? I lost a lot of dwarves to this already,
probably two forts worth.
In worldgen, we can see nations fall. When can we expect to see them rise? Mythgen? Economy?
Do you still play the game for purposes other than testing? And what about Threetoe?
I thought about this after reading the last devlog. Even if you are playing for fun you could still see many problems players won't ever imagine as bugs. Though as DF is very complex and allow very diverse playstyles, most of the problems are very playstyle-oriented, I imagine.
Hey Toady, what's your opinion on the Dark Souls 3 Mound-Makers?
During the taverns update development you (maybe, correct me if my memory is faulty) mentioned the fortress guards getting involved in tavern brawls (breaking them up? Arresting folk afterwards?). Is that something you're still thinking of adding in this cycle or is that too big now?
Would be a nice addition. Balance reduction of tavern deaths through timely intervention of guards with having to fulfill mandates to avoid punishment deaths. Or just opt out with an alcohol(tavern keeper) free tavern as folk are free to do now.
Will creatures with transmissible symptoms be able to intelligently apply their poisonous substances onto an object in order to lay a trap, or otherwise weaponize it for biological warfare? For example, thralls could try to coat doors or loose objects with the dust that created them, so anyone who touches that object becomes another thrall. Or, certain sentient civs might be able to capture a forgotten beast and coat their weapons in the toxic blood/dust of the creature to provide an edge in combat.
Also, will there be a way to create temporary pocket dimensions to create bags of holding or similar? I'd like to be able to make a crystal or jar containing soldiers, then throw it at a target and have the dimension in the jar destabilize as the jar shatters, ejecting all of the occupants on top of the target. That, or do the same thing, but fill the jar dimension with lava instead, and make a magical incendiary weapon.
Thirdly, will fleshcrafting and gene manipulation be a possible magic discipline? Will we be able to clone dwarves or summon syndromes as an area-denial weapon?
Lastly, will necromancy be given a more complex skillset, and thus allowing dwarven necromancers to play a greater role in dwarf society? I was hoping to have necromancy be akin to a noble position, requiring a certain quality of room. One could designate the necromancer to raise a corpse, and the raised corpse could have certain skill specializations and respond to the appropriate labors. Better yet, a workshop by the name of Necromancer Altar or similar, where you could order the necro to raise a corpse and give them skills for certain labors. They would be able to perform labors befitting their skillset, but would be unable to improve their skills. If necromancy can be likened to a skill, then a higher necromancer skill level would allow the necromancer to raise corpses with higher skill levels or combinations of skills. Novice necromancers would raise corpses with one Novice level, Adequates could provide undead with 1-2 Adequate skills, and so on. The most proficient or legendary necromancers could raise highly intelligent undead with a wide variety of disciplines. They might even be able to give their undead necromantic skill, for the purposes of delegation or backups should the original necromancer die.
Just a quickie regarding the last devlog - will the new outdoor construction cleaning include roads?
Poison. They used to do this long ago, and we never got back to coating weapons in full (though kobolds do it at their sites now). We hope to get back to it.
Poison. They used to do this long ago, and we never got back to coating weapons in full (though kobolds do it at their sites now). We hope to get back to it.Is that true? I occasionally notice "slingers" from my mod (renamed blowgunners to simulate npcs using "thrown" weapons) have their ammo coated in things like bumblebee venom, atleast if they're bandits - or is that a separate thing?
Quote from: FantasticDorfWould this be the case for specific location structures indicated for scenarios, like a dungeon/central jail to keep a prison colony functional and under control? (not meaning exactly a Australia format wherein just being very far away on a strange continent is detainment with nowhere to run to) - rather than just a jail & justice system we have currently.
It's quite possible. In that specific example, a location might be a tad small as you suggest; perhaps it's more likely the current fort jails might be considered a 'dungeon' location properly, whereas the prison colony is a more site-level consideration. But yeah, the space in between is interesting, and might work as a location complex with several zones, if the prison colony sufficiently restricts movement and has a sufficient administrative or civilian presence.
Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
They're evil?
Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
Underground agriculture would be posible if they only raise mushrooms I think.Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
Probably the same reason you don't need to haul dirt to the surface, and why you gain more metal by melting down bolts and coins individually - mass isn't conserved. Energy isn't either, hence impulse ramps and underground agriculture.
Why is it that dwarves lie about their feelings, even when speaking to themselves about it? Such as "I am not afraid" or "I am not satisfied" when their thoughts menu says otherwise. Does it have something to do with a propensity to sarcasm/dishonesty, a bug, or something more specific?That paragraph, probably is more of a list of of their most recent notable thoughts, not their thoughts at the moment. And there no timestamp when they had those thoughts.
Yes there is. Current thoughts are written in the present tense 'she feels terror in battle' as opposed to 'felt' and recently, yes I've also seen that accompanied by the opposite reaction in the quote, such as 'I laugh in the face of death' (that example isn't necessarily a bug though, just bravado to cover real feelings).Why is it that dwarves lie about their feelings, even when speaking to themselves about it? Such as "I am not afraid" or "I am not satisfied" when their thoughts menu says otherwise. Does it have something to do with a propensity to sarcasm/dishonesty, a bug, or something more specific?That paragraph, probably is more of a list of of their most recent notable thoughts, not their thoughts at the moment. And there no timestamp when they had those thoughts.
Why is it that dwarves lie about their feelings, even when speaking to themselves about it? Such as "I am not afraid" or "I am not satisfied" when their thoughts menu says otherwise. Does it have something to do with a propensity to sarcasm/dishonesty, a bug, or something more specific?
How do you choose which bugs to fix? Is there a particular filter on the bug tracker that you look at?There are at least two (related) criteria that are used:
Crashes and game corruption are at the highest priority.How do you choose which bugs to fix? Is there a particular filter on the bug tracker that you look at?There are at least two (related) criteria that are used:
- Bugs recently introduced, and
- Bugs relating to things under modification.
How customizable will be the law/justice in the laws/property/status/scenarios release?Use lime green to mark it as question
How customizable will be the law/justice in the laws/property/status/scenarios release?I forget where this was previously answered, probably fotf, perhaps twitter. But yeah, same as magic, extremely customizable, procedurally generated law/politics etc is the plan.
About the various level of world magic level, will this also affect the type of rocks and land formation available on a world ?
By example i'm thinking about those "floating" rocks or big floating lands that are often seen in fantasy worlds, or floating sky cities made with that kind of material etc, will it be possible ?
flying sites, can be handled like boats somewhat
Assuming update isn't out by the end of the month...
Will dwarves need equipment to grab livestock (chains, cages, etc) or can they just coax the giant elephants from the forest retreat to follow them with soothing beard strokes...?
When it comes to raiding, will there be a "babysnatching" option at some point along with the pillaging/razing options?Oh yes, some c-screen mod support thrown in at the end of this cycle would be great! Seems like it should all work mechanically. Although, would have to link to the snatcher position to make sense, so perhaps not quite as low-hanging fruit as it seems.
Will electricity ever exist as a method of power production, or is technology stuck where it is now?Tech is limited mostly to 1400's Europe.
When it comes to raiding, will there be a "babysnatching" option at some point along with the pillaging/razing options?
When it comes to raiding, will there be a "babysnatching" option at some point along with the pillaging/razing options?
The dwarven ethics should disallow that, though.\
Also, being able to play as goblins would be a nice bonus.
I mean, supposedly wire drawing has existed since the tenth century AD in real life.Will electricity ever exist as a method of power production, or is technology stuck where it is now?Tech is limited mostly to 1400's Europe.
I mean, supposedly wire drawing has existed since the tenth century AD in real life.Will electricity ever exist as a method of power production, or is technology stuck where it is now?Tech is limited mostly to 1400's Europe.
It wouldn't be THAT big of a stretch for dwarves/humans/goblins(?) to discover how to make copper coils.
And then discover that certain materials repel certain metals, and that these copper coils exert the same force if you make a torus of copper coils...
And then, that a reaction occurs if you stick a magnetic metal in the coil and spin it around really fast...
And then, that the effect can be reversed, if the two coil tori are linked with gold/copper/tin filament in a loop consisting of two cables extended across the tori and a metal object is inserted into the other torus...
A world with a deity whose sphere(s) have aspects of inspiration, crafts/creation and thunder might gift their followers with visions of wondrous metallic devices that have the ability to store, release and/or generate lightning and implore them to construct the objects as an act of faith or piety. This could lead to electrical tech being made ahead of schedule.
But if there's no way to circumvent the technology cap or the dev does not wish to allow for the construction of such technology, then that's understandable and I shall drop the subject.
It'd be very dwarven to be able to build a primitive railgun using solid iron spears/bars/blocks, two giant copper rails, a large voltaic pile and generators run by elvish/goblin slave labor, though.
It'd be very dwarven [...] elvish/goblin slave labor, though.
Okay then, migrant labor or dwarves with Pump Operator levelsIt'd be very dwarven [...] elvish/goblin slave labor, though.
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
It constantly astounds me how little players understand the ethics of their own dwarves.
If we raid goblin sites, will we be able to bring back Trolls as livestock? That could be interesting.Not if your squad aren't assigned chains/cages first...
What constitutes acts of slavery?If we raid goblin sites, will we be able to bring back Trolls as livestock? That could be interesting.Not if your squad aren't assigned chains/cages first...
Besides, there's an argument out there which says that, even if goblins raise them in pens and shear them for fur and such, it's still classed as slavery.
Cannibalism ethics counts all sapient races as the same (dwarf must not eat gobbo). Probably same for slavery right now. Makes sense as civs are usually made up of all four main races plus the lesser grey area types. Can I eat a wild kea-man? What about a civilized one? Can a civilized kea-man eat a wild one? Would it want to?What constitutes acts of slavery?If we raid goblin sites, will we be able to bring back Trolls as livestock? That could be interesting.Not if your squad aren't assigned chains/cages first...
Besides, there's an argument out there which says that, even if goblins raise them in pens and shear them for fur and such, it's still classed as slavery.
Is it a matter of sentience/intelligence? Civility? Species, even?
Could dwarves exploit the clause of "but they're not dwarves"?
Troll shearing would indeed count as slavery if intelligence is the deciding factor, but not if it's race-specific (i.e dwarf must not enslave dwarf)
You can't eat dead animal people, even wild ones.Yes. Ethics.
Could dwarves exploit the clause of "but they're not dwarves"?Now there's a thought. "We abhor slavery in all forms. Except that of inferior races to our own..."
Pitchblende exists as a mineable ore. Through supernatural means, would dwarves be able to refine uranium and construct a rudimentary nuclear weapon? Could we nuke elfkind?Even once you have the material, getting a nuke to detonate is still an extremely precise matter. Do it wrong, and you just contaminate a small area with radioactive debris. There's no way you're going to stumble upon making a nuke without a serious understanding of nuclear physics. It's well after the tech cutoff.
Another thing about forced labor that should be considered looking forward is how there is a variety of different systems that held different amounts of sway, in real life, and historically the standing on slavery has shifted for reasons anywhere between ethical development to simply the generation of capital and labor to plantation owners or other slave using entities. For instance, it can be argued that serfdom, under the feudal system is considered slavery, and the dwarves in our game here basically operate under the feudal system, where the dwarves state that torture is unthinkable, yet deliver mandate violation punishments in the form of hammerblows and beatings, which are kind of a form of torture..."Torture for fun", "Torture as example" and "torture for information" are the (current) three torture ethics. "Torture for purification of the soul" isn't included (Although as a punishment, doubtless it looks like "torture as example" to outsiders).
The other slave systems worth considering for ethics specificity would be the likes of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. And it is worth noting that humans have historical precedence for all of them.
Torture for purification of the soul basically just sounds like it's for fun and example, really. Considering the ones giving the beatings get good thoughts for it, and soul purification is an exceptionally strange response to failing to produce tables.Another thing about forced labor that should be considered looking forward is how there is a variety of different systems that held different amounts of sway, in real life, and historically the standing on slavery has shifted for reasons anywhere between ethical development to simply the generation of capital and labor to plantation owners or other slave using entities. For instance, it can be argued that serfdom, under the feudal system is considered slavery, and the dwarves in our game here basically operate under the feudal system, where the dwarves state that torture is unthinkable, yet deliver mandate violation punishments in the form of hammerblows and beatings, which are kind of a form of torture..."Torture for fun", "Torture as example" and "torture for information" are the (current) three torture ethics. "Torture for purification of the soul" isn't included (Although as a punishment, doubtless it looks like "torture as example" to outsiders).
The other slave systems worth considering for ethics specificity would be the likes of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. And it is worth noting that humans have historical precedence for all of them.
Tribute system is in latest devblog.
- When will Interactions start to respect USAGE_HINTs (and lack of) again much like pre-42.xx? { regarding tracked issue http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9417 })
- Will there ever be additional syndrome effects like combustion/ignite? Say eating a certain plant will cause the consumer to combust into flames.
- Will being on fire have "degrees" of burning and more targeted burning (stepping through fire may only light someones legs on fire, and progress from there unless put out or stop drop and roll)
- Will it be possible to raid sites and have not only raze and loot, but kidnap(baby snatch) as well (be it for goblin-like action, or for ransom, or both). Or even take prisoners? Maybe even apply the FORCED_ADMINISTRATION position on a site, and demand goods from them (we own you, send wagons to this fortress of cat leather and silver bars)
This has the problem of materiel interactions. Which is that you need at least x^x of possible interactions. Where x is the number of all materiels. The Brothers Tarns dont seem to particularly like adding in one off systems. They prefer to have a generalized system to handle large number of cases. Like for instance, we didnt have milkable cows for a very long time, until we got a system that covers fireballs, and venoms ect.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9417 })[/color][/li][/list]
2. Will there ever be additional syndrome effects like combustion/ignite? Say eating a certain plant will cause the consumer to combust into flames.[/li][/list]
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This has the problem of materiel interactions. Which is that you need at least x^x of possible interactions. Where x is the number of all materiels. The Brothers Tarns dont seem to particularly like adding in one off systems. They prefer to have a generalized system to handle large number of cases. Like for instance, we didnt have milkable cows for a very long time, until we got a system that covers fireballs, and venoms ect.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9417 })[/color][/li][/list]
2. Will there ever be additional syndrome effects like combustion/ignite? Say eating a certain plant will cause the consumer to combust into flames.[/li][/list]
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Do second and third degree burns not happen in the game organically? The bodily materiels have specific heats, and I think they thermal conductivity. They probably arent being lable as such.
> Will it be possible to raid sites and have not only raze and loot, but kidnap(baby snatch) as well (be it for goblin-like action, or for ransom, or both). Or even take prisoners? Maybe even apply the FORCED_ADMINISTRATION position on a site, and demand goods from them (we own you, send wagons to this fortress of cat leather and silver bars)Tribute system is in latest devblog.
We're also considering throwing in an ongoing tribute option if the winds are favorable.
On my first attack on a human village, the dwarves returned with a yak, a goose, and an alpaca, as well as a nicely decorated yak waterskin... and somebody's oaken crutch.(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80975000/jpg/_80975620_guardians4_imagenet.jpg)
Obviously, Mythgen won't be save-compatible.
Obviously, Mythgen won't be save-compatible.Well, I'm assuming that. But maybe Toady has a plan.
Do you have any mythgen update plans on re-adding skeletal undead back into the game? It seems that all undead now are just some variation of a zombie.You do still have skeletal undead, but iirc they aren't explicitly marked as such. A sufficiently decayed corpse (usually ones found in tombs) will be outright skeletal - you can see that via the description (if literally all of their tissue layers are "gone" then its a skeleton).
I just had a thought.Probably just join both of them as a sheet of some kind and slide into it. Like a metal/wood skirt or pant leg.
What do you think of the mental image of a snake person in DF wearing greaves?
Probably just join both of them as a sheet of some kind and slide into it. Like a metal/wood skirt or pant leg.
You could always request a crayon drawing with your next donation. Both serious and highly amusing.Probably just join both of them as a sheet of some kind and slide into it. Like a metal/wood skirt or pant leg.
Well that's the serious answer and not the amusing answer, yeah. XP
Will the military tactics skill affect combat rolls for on-site squads, or just while they're off on missions?
Will the military tactics skill affect combat rolls for on-site squads, or just while they're off on missions?I assume you'd need to implement actual tactics for that. Off-site it's easy enough to abstract the clever tactical decisions and use of terrain dorfs are considering. On-site, they'd revert back to 'crossbows out and charge!'
That could happen eventually, but in the short term something like an accuracy boost would suffice.Will the military tactics skill affect combat rolls for on-site squads, or just while they're off on missions?I assume you'd need to implement actual tactics for that. Off-site it's easy enough to abstract the clever tactical decisions and use of terrain dorfs are considering. On-site, they'd revert back to 'crossbows out and charge!'
Yeah, it would. I guess...That could happen eventually, but in the short term something like an accuracy boost would suffice.Will the military tactics skill affect combat rolls for on-site squads, or just while they're off on missions?I assume you'd need to implement actual tactics for that. Off-site it's easy enough to abstract the clever tactical decisions and use of terrain dorfs are considering. On-site, they'd revert back to 'crossbows out and charge!'
Are there plans for procedural food? Using the system we already have for describing dances and poems, it might not be that hard to port it into describing food recipes.Recipes were planned for the tavern update, but were postponed along with games. They'll come in, but right now there's no timeline.
Could ghosts be potentially weaponized as a willing action on the ghost's part? For instance, a dwarf who swears to protect the fortress in death and does not hold any grudges against his fellow dwarves. Could one have ghosts that could be commanded to guard certain areas?
Are raid squads and artifact seekers ignoring other armies, megabeasts, husking clouds and so on as they travel across the map right now, or is there a chance of encounters along the way? If there isn't, is anything planned like that for this set of releases?
Where are you currently in the release development cycle? Are you still adding features to the artifact update, fixing it's bugs or both?Both. Next update features bug fixes (according to the tracker) and new civ screen features. There's some buggy raid behavior that hasn't been cleared from the tracker yet, so that'll need to be patched up before bug fixing closes. And adventurer updates are still planned as far as anyone knows. Usually bugs and features are addressed together through to the end of each cycle.
Where are you currently in the release development cycle? Are you still adding features to the artifact update, fixing it's bugs or both?
Just how customizable will the myths be? Could we potentially create our own gods and magic systems, or will it work like world gen?
Well, the editor for fixed worlds is actually part of the Mythgen dev notes, so it's still a bit unclear when this is coming. I'd assume 2nd or later Mythgen pass, but it really depends on how interesting Toady finds making an editor. Could be right away.Just how customizable will the myths be? Could we potentially create our own gods and magic systems, or will it work like world gen?
I think moddable magic spells have been mentioned, but creating preset gods and stuff if coming in the next update after the first Myth update.
Will certain magic practices be illegal or viewed with judgement? Like raising corpses right now, except it is hurling fireballs around or turning limbs into buckets of water because it came from some evil god or something
Is there an in-universe explanation for how/why an elf is able to devour 80 humans in a single sitting?
I'm wondering who created the curses_640x300.bmp tilesheet?
Why is it that dwarves lie about their feelings, even when speaking to themselves about it? Such as "I am not afraid" or "I am not satisfied" when their thoughts menu says otherwise. Does it have something to do with a propensity to sarcasm/dishonesty, a bug, or something more specific?
Will your full-on site attacks count as a declaration of a civ level war, or will they be like the domestic conflicts between sites you sometimes see happening in human and goblin civs?
How do you choose which bugs to fix? Is there a particular filter on the bug tracker that you look at?
It's very exciting to hear that you're implementing looting! Will there be specificity on preferring what to loot, and will worn gear (Backpacks, etc) have an influence on what can be carried,
or are these deferred for future arcs where they'd be more relevant?
About the various level of world magic level, will this also affect the type of rocks and land formation available on a world ?
By example i'm thinking about those "floating" rocks or big floating lands that are often seen in fantasy worlds, or floating sky cities made with that kind of material etc, will it be possible ?
1. Will practitioners of various forms of generated magic be given their own generated titles?
2. Will we be able to look at the generated myths post world gen to refresh on lore about a world's magic, races, mechanics etc. similar to how we can look up general lore in legends mode?
3. Will the myth generator also list any special traits about generated races such as ability to breath underwater, passive animal pacification etc.
4. Will magic be added to the list of values civilizations can have opinions on? If so will it just be a general magic value or multiple values for each form of generated magic?
Will dwarves need equipment to grab livestock (chains, cages, etc) or can they just coax the giant elephants from the forest retreat to follow them with soothing beard strokes...?
Does 'livestock' apply to remaining creatures that do not become involved in the conflict? (say if your soldiers were attacked by dogs) or total pool of creatures once the remaining conflict with the settlement's sentient occupants ends.
1.Will it be possible that in some worlds you wiil be able to be a being that is in multiple places at once (e.g death)? and if so how it will work?
2.will legends mode contain the ways magc is done in the world?
When it comes to raiding, will there be a "babysnatching" option at some point along with the pillaging/razing options?
1. In worlds with divine magic will being in the vicinity of a temple or holy site improve the effectiveness of divine magic related to the appropriate site?
2. In worlds with healing magic capable of healing serious injuries such as severed motor nerves or missing limbs will our adventurers be able to hire a practitioner of such magic to heal their serious injuries they have acquired on their adventures?
3. In worlds with magic will our adventurers who have magic that can be used for utilitarian purposes such as growing a bigger crop yield, healing the sick, creating equipment etc. be able to hire out their services to NPCs for payment?
4. In worlds with magic in terms of magic phenomena that power magic such as a magic wind or sea or egg would being in close proximity to such things affect the potency of spells related to them?
(1.) Will holy relics be capable of casting miracles aligned with the spheres of their related god?
Like a DEATH god's relic capable of mass resurrection/death, or a metals/minerals/mining god who gives powers of mineral transmutation to their relic.
(2.) Will we be able to do more hostile actions to civs beyond attacking the one's our civ is already at war with?
For instance, taking civvies as slave labor, kidnapping rulers, creating puppet states, poisoning crops/water supplies to kill civ populations, and erecting pyres to burn population members at the stake as an act of atrocity.
(3.) With the arrival of magic and mythology, will civs field combat magic users in their armies and send them out during a siege?
(4.) Is there a list/has there been a discussion of the magic disciplines that civilizations will be able to possibly have?
(5.) Pitchblende exists as a mineable ore. Through supernatural means, would dwarves be able to refine uranium and construct a rudimentary nuclear weapon? Could we nuke elfkind?
(6.) Can gods be slain? Or perhaps rendered irrelevant through lack of worship, by killing all their followers and destroying all holy sites pertaining to them? Can their divinity be stolen and their powers harnessed or used?
If we raid goblin sites, will we be able to bring back Trolls as livestock? That could be interesting.
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf1. When will Interactions start to respect USAGE_HINTs (and lack of) again much like pre-42.xx? { regarding tracked issue http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9417 })
2. Will there ever be additional syndrome effects like combustion/ignite? Say eating a certain plant will cause the consumer to combust into flames.
3. Will being on fire have "degrees" of burning and more targeted burning (stepping through fire may only light someones legs on fire, and progress from there unless put out or stop drop and roll)
4. Will it be possible to raid sites and have not only raze and loot, but kidnap(baby snatch) as well (be it for goblin-like action, or for ransom, or both). Or even take prisoners? Maybe even apply the FORCED_ADMINISTRATION position on a site, and demand goods from them (we own you, send wagons to this fortress of cat leather and silver bars)Quote from: FantasticDorfThough it is not quite a arc so to speak (like law arc) outside of sharing a resemblence of the theme will greater interactions of local sites raiding, fighting and demand tribute eventually lead to expanded connections of relationships on how those are imposed (via forced administration governments & puppet rulers) or freed from that imposement through rebellion and wars.
For instance a dwarven civ you may be playing at one given point in time may have been conquered previously by goblins in a vunerable weak point in their history and as such are bound into a peace deal agreement on threat of reprecussions & violence if they do not extract tribute from them.
Are there any technical updates or replacement systems that you really want to implement that you've held back on so far in order to maintain save compatibility? I know how that's an important consideration, but perhaps Mythgen is a natural time to "break" the game again? (In the name of progress, of course).
So, military tactics, leadership, organization and terrain are all taken into account, which is great, but will the report actually read like a battle, or will it still show as one on one fights?
Do you have any mythgen update plans on re-adding skeletal undead back into the game? It seems that all undead now are just some variation of a zombie.
Will the military tactics skill affect combat rolls for on-site squads, or just while they're off on missions?
Can military tactics be transcribed into a scholarly profession and pursuit? To teach yourself the Dwarven art of war like a 2bit Sun Tzu.
Will other unused or old skills like 'leader' (im aware military dwarves learn it slowly) see more use within the new raiding & reclaiming system to complement the re-emergence of military tactics.
What form will tribute take and how will it arrive at the player’s fort?
Chests of coins? Items brought by a caravan? A line-item entry on the civil relationship screen?
Are there plans for procedural food? Using the system we already have for describing dances and poems, it might not be that hard to port it into describing food recipes.
Quote from: LordfiscusCould ghosts be potentially weaponized as a willing action on the ghost's part? For instance, a dwarf who swears to protect the fortress in death and does not hold any grudges against his fellow dwarves. Could one have ghosts that could be commanded to guard certain areas?Quote from: FantasticDorfDo you have any more plans for supernatural ghosts for future arcs or are you happy with how they are
Now that its effectively possible, if improbable, that one could conquer the world in fort mode, will we actually see civilizations die? Will their refugee pops eventually relocate to other civs or surrender, or perish in the wilderness, to where the civ ceases to exist? Can we be the last civilized race in the world?
Will there be something to do with prisoners besides keeping them in a room or killing them? Setting them free, with or without weapons, if they go away? Exchanging them for loot or specifical tributes?
I may be missing something, but I don't like genocide being the only option to end wars.
The thing goes on (and worse) with underground creatures and cages: the situation of non speaker learners is particularily chilling. You cannot keep them in your society, you cannot release them peacefully, you cannot send them away, you cannot let the caravan bring them away. You cannot even kill them fast and mercifully - if with a terrible name - with the butcher option.
You get to the paradoxes. The forum is full of stories of dwarven civs that take Troglodyte prisoners and - not using their labor because that would be slavery - seclude them in pits to throw monsters on them and get pleasure by the resulting mess.
Would it be possible to address the intelligent and not so intelligent caged creatures situation, for example offering them the "visitor" status?
That would allow them a choice to stay and contribute or freely go away. It would grant the fortress (and the player) the chance to welcome them in liberty or to refuse their contribution (if offered) too, staying ethnically pure and dwarfy.
Are raid squads and artifact seekers ignoring other armies, megabeasts, husking clouds and so on as they travel across the map right now, or is there a chance of encounters along the way? If there isn't, is anything planned like that for this set of releases?
Was there a video/audio or even a transcript of your talk at Migs17?
My 0.40.24 experience was that goblin sieges were staged from the same site and drawing members from that site, regardless of whether the site was under control of another civ or independent, resulting in an end to sieges when the site ran out of warm bodies to send. My current 0.44.05 experience is that the staging point jumps between at least two sites, possibly based on whether the original one is under control of the goblin civ or not. In addition to that, the force composition indicates the involvement of a 3:rd site.
Have you made any changes to the army recruitment and/or army staging logic to explain that (possibly in conjunction with dealing with the army pathing issue)?
Just how customizable will the myths be? Could we potentially create our own gods and magic systems, or will it work like world gen?
It'll be like a caravan that you don't have to pay for (well, except with potential blood and tears and such.) They drop crap off at the depot. Not done yet, but that's the current approach. Like the looting, there isn't a menu to make it specific yet, but we'll get to that in time.
Yeah, as people mentioned, the editor is important. There are some nuances here; the current myth generator supports the addition of abstract objects that will be created (e.g. a comet in addition to the sun), and some of that'll probably be supported more fully with the first pass. Also, magic systems are already supported somewhat in the raws, and we don't want to slip backwards with the release on that front, so there'll probably be a baseline level of support there on top of whatever else we get to. And then once we get to the proper editors, you could, say, create real-world pantheons, etc., and hopefully eventually also create as many fixed legendary events and properties as you like.
Thanks for the answers, Toady.Dev-notes:QuoteYeah, as people mentioned, the editor is important. There are some nuances here; the current myth generator supports the addition of abstract objects that will be created (e.g. a comet in addition to the sun), and some of that'll probably be supported more fully with the first pass. Also, magic systems are already supported somewhat in the raws, and we don't want to slip backwards with the release on that front, so there'll probably be a baseline level of support there on top of whatever else we get to. And then once we get to the proper editors, you could, say, create real-world pantheons, etc., and hopefully eventually also create as many fixed legendary events and properties as you like.
Hoho, I'm really excited to see just what kind of bizarre stuff one could make with that.
Since the topic of fixed legendary events has been possible, do you think this will extend to fixed historical figures of certain races and magical artifacts as well?
Does this mean the tribute system is just not final, or that the update is weeks away from release? I'm just anxious to finally play with functional necro sieges and working visitor caps.