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Finally... => General Discussion => Topic started by: Psyco Jelly on August 27, 2009, 03:54:48 pm

Title: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Psyco Jelly on August 27, 2009, 03:54:48 pm
So I got my physics course, which, much to my dismay, my mother ordered from Bob Jones Univeristy. In case you didn't know, it's a christian school.

To quote my textbook:

Quote from: Physics
The atheist views mankind as an accidental end product of biological evolution-a natural creature that is not morally responsible to anyone higher than himself. He believes that those "higher" attributes of humanness such as language, love, intellect, philosophy, and religion came into being because they somehow give mankind greater advantage in the battle for the survival of the fittest.

So far, it sounds reasonable. Let's continue.

Quote from: Physics
This view of man as nothing more than a highly evolved animal has led to perversions of law and justice as well as horrendous human atrocities during the world wars in the last century and in regional conflicts that continue to this day.

Woah. I'll give you a while to see how that paragraph related to the one above it.

---

so how was your four hours? Note that this says that accepting of mankind as a living creature leads to general bad conduct, genocide, and torture. It even has a picture of a couple of malnourished Jews sitting in a concentration camp.

The writers of this book don't seem to acknowledge that even in an atheist's point of view, human beings are incredible creatures. You don't have to believe in some greater force to be happy, to love, or to be kind and just. Some atheists try to be great people to prove to Christians that they aren't all immoral. The very idea of an animal is almost far fetched considering the chance of such a thing rising from the universe.

Now I'm not a Christian or an Atheist, but this shit offends me. Not so much that it's bullpies, but that it made it into a twelfth grade Physics book.

The animosity between these two groups astounds me. (Again, I'm certain that most people on this forum don't care what religion you are. Nerds seem to be more tolerant.)
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Gunner-Chan on August 27, 2009, 03:57:32 pm
Again, I'm certain that most people on this forum don't care what religion you are. Nerds seem to be more tolerant.

No, just no.


Here just like everywhere else religion brings up shitstorms. I'm surprised you havent seen any.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Enzo on August 27, 2009, 03:59:06 pm
OH YAY RELIGION THREAD.

I like the implication that Hitler was evil because he was atheist despite the fact that he was, you know, not atheist.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: redacted123 on August 27, 2009, 04:01:44 pm
The idea that something so incredibly bias could make it into a science textbook, something that should be full of rational thinking, is bizarre. Even more so that its not even bias against religion, at least then you could trust the physics to be accurate. Who knows how much you can trust this thing?
I have nothing against religion but when they try to brainwash people into believing a wrong version of science, that's unacceptable.
Please post more, I would love to see what blatant contradictions this book contains.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Rilder on August 27, 2009, 04:02:38 pm
OH YAY RELIGION THREAD.

I like the implication that Hitler was evil because he was atheist despite the fact that he was, you know, not atheist.

I wanted to make a comment in the like of "christians can't commit evil, right? Right guys? Right?!??!"  But it seemed offensive and flame bait..  :-\
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Gunner-Chan on August 27, 2009, 04:04:51 pm
Because it is and you posted it anyway. Meaning I bet someone is gonna call you out on it.

Really, religion is one of those things you don't talk about with people you don't REALLY know. It just doesn't work on the internet.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Psyco Jelly on August 27, 2009, 04:07:04 pm
It all comes down to the basic equation of Hitlerness. Also called the Kampf equation.

H = (N-A)/G

Hitlerness = (Niceness-Atheistness)/Godliness

Niceness on humans naturally ranges between 3-5 antinazis. Atheistness can either be anything between -10 and 10, with agnostics hitting the 0 mark. The lower the hitlerness value, the closer to Hitler you are.

Godliness is anywhere between 0 and 1, with Catholics hitting .2 and Southern baptists hitting .9. Following this, atheists would be in the lower end, near zero. Since we can agree that hitler has a  negative niceness, the numerator is negative. And as you can see, with a negative numerator, as Godliness approaches zero, hitlerness approaches infinity. Therefore, Hitler wasn't an atheist, but atheists are Hitlers.

(This is in good humor, I'm sure someone can come up with a joke on polytheistic pagans.)
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Neonivek on August 27, 2009, 04:09:33 pm
It doesn't work on the internet because everyone wants to just unload their religious based baggage onto the topic rather then really taking part in a discussion.

Then you get people who don't really understand what is going on and think that the topic is just about unleashing as much text partially related to the topic at hand. (Nonsense posters... Who are very much alive on Bay12games)

Then you get people who are offended at the two people above who unleash their wraph (note: This is a System group as they are capable of offending those within this group of people thus sustaining it infinitum.)

With just these three, the list has around 6 points, any religion based topic is doomed to fail. The problem is that the internet cannot handle Controvercy very well.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Psyco Jelly on August 27, 2009, 04:12:07 pm
It doesn't work on the internet because everyone wants to just unload their religious based baggage onto the topic rather then really taking part in a discussion.

Then you get people who don't really understand what is going on and think that the topic is just about unleashing as much text partially related to the topic at hand. (Nonsense posters... Who are very much alive on Bay12games)

Then you get people who are offended at the two people above who unleash their wraph (note: This is a System group as they are capable of offending those within this group of people thus sustaining it infinitum.)

With just these three, the list has around 6 points, any religion based topic is doomed to fail. The problem is that the internet cannot handle Controvercy very well.

People are the same in real life. I took a course on argumentation, unfortunately, for most people, argument consists of yelling and screaming until one party leaves in frustration.

The idea that something so incredibly bias could make it into a science textbook, something that should be full of rational thinking, is bizarre. Even more so that its not even bias against religion, at least then you could trust the physics to be accurate. Who knows how much you can trust this thing?
I have nothing against religion but when they try to brainwash people into believing a wrong version of science, that's unacceptable.
Please post more, I would love to see what blatant contradictions this book contains.

I checked the later chapters. Other than some random and often unnecessary Bible verses, it's just your average Physics textbook. The lectures that accompany it, however, make scientists out to be assholes through the whole course.

One glorious piece of logic from the professor is:

"The Bible is the word of god, and explains how the world was created. The scientists made up the theory of evolution. God told us how he made the world, and the scientists weren't there.

It would be like a guy telling you how he made a car, and a scientist walks up and says "no, you must have made it like this..." Since they are going against what god said, they are claiming to have a higher authority than god"

If you thinks physics is bad, my spanish had me translate:

"The fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom." Which I think is the single most horrible thing you could teach anyone. Since god in this case is inevitable, it'd be like telling everyone to be afraid of the air."

Again, I don't hold anything personally against Christianity, but I think that such things should be left out of authentic learning material.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Vester on August 27, 2009, 04:36:48 pm
It doesn't work on the internet because everyone wants to just unload their religious based baggage onto the topic rather then really taking part in a discussion.

Then you get people who don't really understand what is going on and think that the topic is just about unleashing as much text partially related to the topic at hand. (Nonsense posters... Who are very much alive on Bay12games)

Then you get people who are offended at the two people above who unleash their wraph (note: This is a System group as they are capable of offending those within this group of people thus sustaining it infinitum.)

With just these three, the list has around 6 points, any religion based topic is doomed to fail. The problem is that the internet cannot handle Controvercy very well.

I like talking about religion. It's everyone else who doesn't. :D Also we seem to be having a semi-civil, if somewhat oddball, discussion of somewhat religious things in the Afterlife thread.

Quote from: Physics
This view of man as nothing more than a highly evolved animal has led to perversions of law and justice as well as horrendous human atrocities during the world wars in the last century and in regional conflicts that continue to this day.

The problem with this statement is that it presupposes that Atheists do not accord people any dignity. Which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: redacted123 on August 27, 2009, 04:42:28 pm
If anything, Athiests can be trusted most of all to be moral because their judgement is never clouded by religion. You don't need the fear of god to have a conscience.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Dasleah on August 27, 2009, 04:56:39 pm
HEY THOSE NAZIS WEREN'T ALL BAD

LOOK AT THEM

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/dasleah/happy_nazis.jpg)

SO HAPPY AND CAREFREE

PULLIN' MAD TRICKS

I'D TOTALLY LET ONE OF THEM DATE MY SISTER, THEY LOOK LIKE GOLLY GOOD BLOKES

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Neonivek on August 27, 2009, 04:56:48 pm
If anything, Athiests can be trusted most of all to be moral because their judgement is never clouded by religion. You don't need the fear of god to have a conscience.

The problem is that Morality that is logical is called Utilitarianism. Which only represents one moral code (and one type of logic >.>)

Utilitarianism is one of the more untrustworthy moral codes unless you happen to be one of the Elite and will be so for the rest of your life.

So just because someone's morality isn't likely filtered through a lense of religion it doesn't mean it is any less likely to be corrupt.

Of course Stany's line of arguement is common with people who equivocate/group Religion with Morality. Which I am not accusing him of.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: redacted123 on August 27, 2009, 05:00:45 pm
true, such a morality would happily sacrifice 500 hundred people to save a thousand no matter how questionable it sounds.
Also,
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/dasleah/happy_nazis.jpg)
Those Nazi's are pwnzor, could they be any more awesome?


(kidding)
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Enzo on August 27, 2009, 05:02:09 pm
If anything, Athiests can be trusted most of all to be moral because their judgement is never clouded by religion. You don't need the fear of god to have a conscience.

As a godless heretic who is also amoral and a bit of a dick, I take offense to that statement.

Also, Dasleah, I fail to see how poorly trolling a thread you consider "trollbait" improves the situation at all.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: zchris13 on August 27, 2009, 05:07:12 pm
Disregarding the fact that they are nazis, those dudes are fucking sick-awesome.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Vester on August 27, 2009, 05:10:31 pm
I just noticed this.

So I got my physics course, which, much to my dismay, my mother ordered from Bob Jones Univeristy. In case you didn't know, it's a christian school.

What?

I didn't know they were accredited.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Ampersand on August 27, 2009, 05:11:54 pm
According to Wikipedia

"Since 2005 BJU has been accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, an accrediting organization recognized by the Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation"
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Puck on August 27, 2009, 05:17:15 pm
nvm... just facepalm...
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Vester on August 27, 2009, 05:18:38 pm
Agreed with the above facepalm.

Ah, well. They can't be all that bad, probably just wonky in sciences.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Puck on August 27, 2009, 05:36:34 pm
Look... my first four years I spent in school were in a friggin PUBLIC school... I dont know how the christian priest from the church across the street managed to wedge himself into our education, but he did. Lucky for me he was only touching young girls, and leaving us boys alone :o (Not kidding)

Then -for some stupid reason, which was totally my fault- I went to a catholic private school.

I have met enough christians in my life to design a post not fitting for any forum. Hence I just opted for the facepalm thing, but I tell you, I could ramble on for hours about all the stupidity in no matter what kind of christian mythology. I think all those funky little subgroups even manage to fight over the fact on which side of god the holy spirit is sitting or some stupid shit like that  ::)

Seriously, it's a religion for braindead sheeple. Just look at them :(

But you cant say such things without getting at least somebody offended... so just ignore this post...
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Enzo on August 27, 2009, 05:43:58 pm
Well, at least we made it to page two before the overt Christian-bashing began. Go team!

I'll hold off on my obligatory "in defense of Christians" mini-rant because I've said it before.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Zai on August 27, 2009, 05:44:54 pm
OH SHIT GET THIS OUT OF HERE

This thread is likely to stay on the topic of religion, as that is part of the original intention. Religion threads are a beacon for flame wars. Lock this thread. Now. Every time someone tries to start another religion thread, they say, "o lol, nah i tink we can handl it now. bay12 is tolerant and civil". And guess what? IT NEVER WORKS OUT. It always ends up getting locked, usually by Toady or ThreeToe. Just save the misery and do the inevitable: lock this thread now, Psyco Jelly. For the good of humanity!

[Pre-Post Edit:] Oh joy. One of the first blatant flames of the thread. This can only get worse from here:

Quote
Seriously, it's a religion for braindead sheeple. Just look at them
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Neonivek on August 27, 2009, 05:50:57 pm
Quote
Well, at least we made it to page two before the overt Christian-bashing began

Yep it is as good of a reason to lock the thread then any (other then the topic creator intentionally trying to cause a flamewar that is)
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Puck on August 27, 2009, 06:05:00 pm
Funny enough, I never stumbled upon a topic in which a mention of buddhism started a flamewar. Maybe it's because there are so many different forms of buddhism, that nobody even can know what is going on, or maybe it's because the core messages are being communicated in a totally not twisted and sick way. I mean come on, the story about jonas and the whale as a metaphor for "god is transcending everything"... how sick can it get? It's only a small step from there to telling children there are monsters in their closet  ::)
 
I tell ye, its them funky christians. There is something fishy about them (ha, reference joke). I mean, c'mon, the pope looks like Emperor Palpatine and is telling the world condoms are bad? Subgroups bashing gay people and preventing evolution theory from being taught?

Sure, you can find idiots everywhere. But I'm convinced you find more of them among soccer players and christians.

Seriously. They creep me out. Big time.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Enzo on August 27, 2009, 06:12:16 pm
completely unnecessary post

OK, so when everyone calls out your Christian-bashing you decide the solution is more Christian-bashing?

Vote Lock

It will only get worse.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Puck on August 27, 2009, 06:26:44 pm
Maybe I'm not trying very hard to be polite about it, but calling what I posted "bashing" is just unfair.

I think you cannot expect people to just not say anything. I'm convinced the ... mythic knowlegde, if you will, taught by christians is harmful. If it wasnt harmful, there wouldnt be any "bashing".

Remember, Jesus loves you. But his father might just drown you in the next deluge. Repent sinners and all that.

Very, very healthy ::)

edit: oh yeah, and I vote for lock, too. I'm just tempted here.  ;D
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Psyco Jelly on August 27, 2009, 06:29:25 pm
Generally insulting someone's belief is considered "bashing".

I just started this topic because I was amazed that such a thing got into a physics book.

What does physics have to do with the holocaust?

I'll lock the thread if things don't improve. The nazi-car was awesome. Then Puck came in, which provoked Zai.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Puck on August 27, 2009, 06:36:10 pm
Ok, ok. Maybe calling it a religion for "braindead sheeple" was a bit over the top. But the rest wasnt an insult, that's just observation. I didnt make it through the whole bible (and of course not through every version of it), but I read more of it than most "active" christians. I was friggin raised by christians. I had a lot of time to think about it.

It IS sick, rotten and twisted. Sure, you have healthy and very very useful christians (even catholics!) all over the world, but how they managed to stay sane is beyond me. The whole thing is full of contradictions, and how one should be able to find true enlightenment with such twisted teachings is even harder to understand.

It's a dark and dangerous religion, and I know there is a lot of denying about the simple fact that it's actually full of hate.

And why am I saying this? Because if the root is sick, the tree is sick or at least sure as hell will become sick. Ergo: I'm not very surprised about that "physics book".
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Kagus on August 27, 2009, 06:37:08 pm
Those excerpts are hilarious.  The sadness I feel at seeing such things enter into a physics book is counteracted by the pure entertainment value of someone not only believing that idiocy, but also feeling it was somehow related to physics.

I will also admit to suffering temporary dyslexia and originally reading the topic title as "Physics and the Hobocaust", which would make for an awesome band name.  Or Flash game, for that matter.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Zai on August 27, 2009, 06:38:29 pm
Then Puck came in, which provoked Zai.

wut

I haven't resorted to flaming and/or bashing, which being "provoked" would imply in this case. Though if you considered my previous post offensive, I apologize. But I think you got the actual message out of it, which was that this thread needs to be locked, as Puck has so willingly proven. =/
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Neonivek on August 27, 2009, 06:40:49 pm
I thought it was a spelling mistake and the topic was about Psychics and the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: redacted123 on August 27, 2009, 06:43:32 pm
Which would be far more interesting.
Title: Re: Physics and the Holocaust
Post by: Toady One on August 27, 2009, 06:49:17 pm
I've locked the thread.  Warning PMs forthcoming!  Please read the posted forum guidelines if you are confused about something.