Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Adventure Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Remuluson on June 18, 2015, 09:13:42 am
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So Dwarf Fortress is settled in fantasy world.
In other games's fantasy worlds you can do spells!
So tell me why in DF you cant be a wizard!
c'mon at least a fireball (blinks to MAX)
or at least some minor healing
that would be awsome!
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Toady will probably make some spells since in first chapter (which was in 3D) you could use glitchy magic.
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yay :D
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I'm personally not sure how magic can be kept viable and not be broken. I mean, what's the point of training a functional army and a proper hospital if everyone can just wave a magic wand and heal by the power of some "magic consumable"?
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maybe only "talented" dwarfs can do magic. and you would need to have scrolls to learn spells and that would be tiring as hell and mages will get unhappy in just seconds when overusing spells
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maybe only "talented" dwarfs can do magic. and you would need to have scrolls to learn spells and that would be tiring as hell and mages will get unhappy in just seconds when overusing spells
So how would you build talent and make scrolls? I guess that makes more sense regardlessly.
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i mean when migrating there is (very small) chance to mage dwarf(he dont born mage babes do(it's also randomized for babes))
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If you're interested in magic, you might like poking around the modding subforum a bit. You could add magic.
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i will! And:
- dabbling scriptwriter
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You could always try my mod and tell me what you think of it:
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=6378
/shameless self-plug
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Personally I think the best magic would be summoning dead entities or entities from other dimensions. This would also fit with necromancy.
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Eric and I need to smash our modding-organs together and make magical artifake weapons.
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We already have dwarves with magic. What, did you think necromancy was just chemistry?! Lycanthropy just a really bad allergic reaction to a full moon?
Anyway, you should probably go back and read up on Threetoe's stories (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_story.html), like Cado's Journey (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html) or Root (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_root.html), or Moclem (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_moclem.html), or Orther (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_orther.html). All of these describe how Toady eventually wants magic to work.
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Personally I think the best magic would be summoning dead entities or entities from other dimensions. This would also fit with necromancy.
There's a resurrect spell and I think I've still included the summoners, although you'll have to infiltrate a tower and leqrn the secrets for those.
Eric and I need to smash our modding-organs together and make magical artifake weapons.
I can talk all day, but I have no fucking clue how to code properly, not for lack of trying.
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I'm still trying to get the hang of some of the things Putnam did to make Sparking! work properly because there are a lot of possibilities opened up there.
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mostly i would like a healing spell so you could cure these pesky motor nerve injuries
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Its actually pretty easy to mod more spells in.
I do that anyway, have 4 totally different schools of magic at this point, very fun.
I could share my mod eventually, I do believe it is some where in my post history actually, specifically the school of water magic, of which i posted an entire story..
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It could have a element based system like "magicka" (the video game), you can cast infinite elements to create a spell, but each element takes one turn/frame/blip/etc to add to a spell for balance. Each element could have buffs or debuffs, for example, a lightning element could stun enemies, a healing element could heal enemies but hurt undead, etc. Each sphere/aspect a creature has could affect how a creature reacts to certain element in the spells. Also, explosion/splash attack/area knockback spell effects.
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To be fair, regarding balance there's a ton of stuff that's unbalanced to begin with (and IMO it's what makes this game really fun), so I don't think that'd be much of a concern when adding more types of magic.
It's not really like magic users are easy to get in either adventure mode in fort mode, so I think that by itself balances it out.
I personally have 3 schools of magic in my worlds including necromancy.
Kinda sucks how spellcasters need some kind of "animate" spell to actually make towers and make their books and slabs available to read. Hope that changes whenever new spellcasters are officially added.
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You should read this:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html
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@Remuluson- Necromancy is in game.
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i like that this game will be going for an unknown armies-ish magic. the power to change the world... for a price. no silly magic meters. keep regular weapons more readily available and viable.
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fantasy worlds dont neccesarily have magic.
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fantasy worlds dont neccesarily have magic.
That does not mean that all fantasy words need not have magic. The only issue I see with this, given the presence of necromancy, is probably just balance. Sadly, that's the biggest issue possible for a suggestion.
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fantasy worlds dont neccesarily have magic.
That does not mean that all fantasy words need not have magic. The only issue I see with this, given the presence of necromancy, is probably just balance. Sadly, that's the biggest issue possible for a suggestion.
The only ways I can see to balance something as incredibly powerful as magic is one or more of the following:
1) Make it so that magic isn't incredibly powerful, but that would kind of defeat the point.
2a) Make it so that magic is incredibly costly to the caster, costing blood to cast for example, too much casting would kill the caster (perhaps resulting in a unique state, spellhusk perhaps?).
2b) Make it so that magic is just costly, requiring certain items, plants, wands, stones, runes, ETC before you are able to cast, meaning that a powerful wizard would end up carrying around a lot of stuff.
3) Make it so that magic is not guaranteed to work, or not guaranteed to work right... Spell failure chances aren't too hard to do.
Personally I prefer having a chance that not only will a spell fail but can fail disastrously: spells affecting the wrong target or even harming the caster, summoning enemies instead of allies, undead monsters going out of control if you have too many... That sort of thing (obviously for fortress mode, a caster would have to be on player command only, so you don't have a wizard trying out their summoning skills and filling your fortress with armok knows what).
It is possible to balance magic, depending on how powerful it is.
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fantasy worlds dont neccesarily have magic.
That does not mean that all fantasy words need not have magic. The only issue I see with this, given the presence of necromancy, is probably just balance. Sadly, that's the biggest issue possible for a suggestion.
That sort of thing (obviously for fortress mode, a caster would have to be on player command only, so you don't have a wizard trying out their summoning skills and filling your fortress with armok knows what).
So would all wizards on your fortress operate like an squad but with a more in-depth UI? Or will there be magic specialization?
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To be fair, regarding balance there's a ton of stuff that's unbalanced to begin with (and IMO it's what makes this game really fun), so I don't think that'd be much of a concern when adding more types of magic.
It's not really like magic users are easy to get in either adventure mode in fort mode, so I think that by itself balances it out.
I personally have 3 schools of magic in my worlds including necromancy.
Kinda sucks how spellcasters need some kind of "animate" spell to actually make towers and make their books and slabs available to read. Hope that changes whenever new spellcasters are officially added.
You can find slabs without them building towers. If you look in legends you'll see that the owner probably stored the slab somewhere, and that somewhere was probably a town you can go to and look through all the buildings to find the slab. If it's one of the small settlements it's pretty easy. Just go into all the houses/trees/holes/towers and look for a slab on the floor. If it's a big settlement, I recommend just not. I've been looking for a slab for an in game day and haven't even searched all the buildings outside the walls yet.
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You can find slabs without them building towers. If you look in legends you'll see that the owner probably stored the slab somewhere, and that somewhere was probably a town you can go to and look through all the buildings to find the slab. If it's one of the small settlements it's pretty easy. Just go into all the houses/trees/holes/towers and look for a slab on the floor. If it's a big settlement, I recommend just not. I've been looking for a slab for an in game day and haven't even searched all the buildings outside the walls yet.
Really? Before I added minions for my spellcasters I looked in various hamlets and couldn't find neither slabs nor books, despite searching all houses.
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fantasy worlds dont neccesarily have magic.
That does not mean that all fantasy words need not have magic. The only issue I see with this, given the presence of necromancy, is probably just balance. Sadly, that's the biggest issue possible for a suggestion.
That sort of thing (obviously for fortress mode, a caster would have to be on player command only, so you don't have a wizard trying out their summoning skills and filling your fortress with armok knows what).
So would all wizards on your fortress operate like an squad but with a more in-depth UI? Or will there be magic specialization?
I'd imagine they'd function like a squad (that way they could perform their magic in any location, plus it'd tie into the army arc later down the line), I'd also make it so that wizards are meant to be VERY rare as I find if you have D&D's magic absolutely everywhere, I feel it kind of ruins it, plus with the sheer scarcity of wizards any form of specialization would leave them VERY limited unless magic was insanely powerful (which in turn would screw up adventure mode).
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You can find slabs without them building towers. If you look in legends you'll see that the owner probably stored the slab somewhere, and that somewhere was probably a town you can go to and look through all the buildings to find the slab. If it's one of the small settlements it's pretty easy. Just go into all the houses/trees/holes/towers and look for a slab on the floor. If it's a big settlement, I recommend just not. I've been looking for a slab for an in game day and haven't even searched all the buildings outside the walls yet.
Really? Before I added minions for my spellcasters I looked in various hamlets and couldn't find neither slabs nor books, despite searching all houses.
They'd be making bandit camps and pretending to be bandits, more likely.
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I am going to say something sacrilegious, but in my opinion, mages should be nobles - there should be only one per fort (perhaps with an apprentice) and they should decide their projects randomly... occasionally stealing a corpse there or a bar of gold here...
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I am going to say something sacrilegious, but in my opinion, mages should be nobles - there should be only one per fort (perhaps with an apprentice) and they should decide their projects randomly... occasionally stealing a corpse there or a bar of gold here...
I would rather becoming a mage work sort of like strange moods.
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You can find slabs without them building towers. If you look in legends you'll see that the owner probably stored the slab somewhere, and that somewhere was probably a town you can go to and look through all the buildings to find the slab. If it's one of the small settlements it's pretty easy. Just go into all the houses/trees/holes/towers and look for a slab on the floor. If it's a big settlement, I recommend just not. I've been looking for a slab for an in game day and haven't even searched all the buildings outside the walls yet.
Really? Before I added minions for my spellcasters I looked in various hamlets and couldn't find neither slabs nor books, despite searching all houses.
I just did it a few days ago in the Dragonball mod. It doesn't add wizards or anything, but it adds special abilities you can learn from slabs made in world generation, which should function the same as wizards without towers. Did you make sure to check that the hamlet was where they supposedly stored the slab? Which version was it? I did this on the most recent version, and maybe something's changed. Also there's a double negative in your post that I don't even know how to interpret were it intentional.
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You can find slabs without them building towers. If you look in legends you'll see that the owner probably stored the slab somewhere, and that somewhere was probably a town you can go to and look through all the buildings to find the slab. If it's one of the small settlements it's pretty easy. Just go into all the houses/trees/holes/towers and look for a slab on the floor. If it's a big settlement, I recommend just not. I've been looking for a slab for an in game day and haven't even searched all the buildings outside the walls yet.
Really? Before I added minions for my spellcasters I looked in various hamlets and couldn't find neither slabs nor books, despite searching all houses.
I just did it a few days ago in the Dragonball mod. It doesn't add wizards or anything, but it adds special abilities you can learn from slabs made in world generation, which should function the same as wizards without towers. Did you make sure to check that the hamlet was where they supposedly stored the slab? Which version was it? I did this on the most recent version, and maybe something's changed. Also there's a double negative in your post that I don't even know how to interpret were it intentional.
Yeah I did check and it just wasn't there. There was nothing in legends about it being stolen or lost or anything, either. IIRC it wasn't the most recent version so perhaps it got fixed.
Regarding the double negative, I didn't even realize I made a mistake when I was making that post. English isn't my native language.
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I'm pretty partial to the direction magic seems to be going, based on necromancers: almost nobody has any interest in magic. Those that do isolate themselves to perfect their art, rarely venturing out into the world, but when they do travel, the consequences of their actions are immediately obvious. That way, magic is a coveted rarity for players, and luring a friendly mage to the fort could be a difficult ordeal--building a sufficiently impressive library, offering opulent and isolated quarters and laboratory facilities, having available plenty of the raw materials they'd want (corpses for necromancers, for instance). I seriously doubt we'll be seeing every Cog, Tun and Shorast slinging fireballs around.
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I could have sworn Toady said he wouldn't add magic because it wasn't very "dwarfy" or something like that...
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I could have sworn Toady said he wouldn't add magic because it wasn't very "dwarfy" or something like that...
Humans, then :V
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Magic is officially planned, the form it will take is unknown though. I'm going to assume for the sake of utilizing the system fully that secrets like necromancers, and all the night creatures will eventually come in many forms, rather than necromancers and vampires being repetition of the same type and werecreatures all using the same mechanics to arrive at different werebeasts.
Magic artifacts will happen. What they do we will have no idea until toady decides.
What we really don't know, and what we might not get, is a standardised magic system that let's thousands of looks cast little spells of fire or whatnot. That's not to say, however, that there absolutely wont be other "mundane" magics that don't go through secrets.
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Magic is officially planned, the form it will take is unknown though. I'm going to assume for the sake of utilizing the system fully that secrets like necromancers, and all the night creatures will eventually come in many forms, rather than necromancers and vampires being repetition of the same type and werecreatures all using the same mechanics to arrive at different werebeasts.
Magic artifacts will happen. What they do we will have no idea until toady decides.
What we really don't know, and what we might not get, is a standardised magic system that let's thousands of looks cast little spells of fire or whatnot. That's not to say, however, that there absolutely wont be other "mundane" magics that don't go through secrets.
Several of Threetoe's stories deal with magic and artifacts. Specifically there's the obvious Cado's Magical Journey, and Heroes of the Coast gives some good examples of artifact effects. To my understanding this is mostly what Toady wants these systems to be like, and I think we'll be getting a little bit of expansion on artifacts after the second tavern update.
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I am going to say something sacrilegious, but in my opinion, mages should be nobles
Then we could have nobles who burn 'themselves' to death.
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If magic would be a thing, I feel as if it could get really FUN, really fast. Fire is already pretty deadly. Having an army of crazy, drunken, fire-wielding midgets might not be such a good idea... God forbid Urist McCriminal happens to punch Urist McWizardpants's cat and he burns the fortress to the ground.
However, I personally like the idea of the possibility of magic being randomized in world gen.
Particularly insane individuals who would stay in a solitary environment and study magic for many, many years.
Finally, after countless months, the individual has some sort of "Revelation" (or simply figures out a way to channel "mana") and creates a spell.
I guess, with the new library system coming out, he could write a book on how to use the spell.
Or, depending on his attributes, maybe he dislikes writing and prefers to have an apprentice.
Magic could spread from teacher to student for generations.
I kinda also like the idea of Deity's making magic at the beginning of world gen too.
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I am going to say something sacrilegious, but in my opinion, mages should be nobles
Then we could have nobles who burn 'themselves' to death.
Hmm, that wouldn't be much fun though. Not personal enough.
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I would imagine the magic to be obtained similarly to necromancy, during world Gen some guy does something that impresses this god or the other and is granted a slab containing the secrets of fire or forges or something and they get access to magic of the type of the secret.
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Can't wait till DF has mad scientists
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Can't wait till DF has mad scientists
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… (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134754)
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Can't wait till DF has mad scientists
Aren't the "mad scientists" the players?
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Hahaha, I mean mad scientists in game running amok making things
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Hahaha, I mean mad scientists in game running amok making things
I know, I was just joking around.
To be honest, that's actually a cool suggestion. It'd be neat if it mixed with interaction knowledge and was the "negative" result of people having the goal of "making a masterpiece".
So you could have necro-madscientists making stuff like Frankstein's Monsters or the Warcraft Abominations that would roam the world like megabeasts and destroy stuff. Right now you can only mod those in as semi/megabeasts and they just appear out of nowhere, kinda breaks the immersion.
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I'm personally not sure how magic can be kept viable and not be broken. I mean, what's the point of training a functional army and a proper hospital if everyone can just wave a magic wand and heal by the power of some "magic consumable"?
Dwarf Fortress is also a game that doesn't balance itself intentionally.