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[Rowanas]

oh, so let them exist, but not actually have any real part in your fortress, nor add anything to the game play?

I'll stick with my previousl comment, thanks.

[uran77]

I say probabilities should govern this, not some set value. If an Elf and a Human hook up, then a Half-Elf should just be one possibility. Something like 50% Half-Elf, 25% Human, 25% Elf. Then, in turn, the hybrids should "lock in" to their races, meaning a Half-Elf can only mate with an Elf or a Human. Their child, in turn, would be 50% hybrid, 50% Elf or Human (depending on partner).

I'm just making up numbers as I go along, but the point is, in order to avoid hybrids from taking over, there should be some systems in place. And like the "real world", hybrids should be discriminated against by some people/groups...perhaps even wars could start over it.

add in 00.1%  abomination to be killed with fire

[uran77]

horrible bestiality

Can we really consider anything the elf does as not beastiality?

Fixed for you

well at least there not loving the trees as much?

[Shurhaian]

Y'know... I must have somehow missed encountering the fantasy settings where any random farmer could just toss any two creatures of the opposite gender together and have them produce a hybrid.

I'm not saying some commonly-encountered beings that are quite similar to one another shouldn't be able to reproduce. (The sentient races in vanilla, for instance, possibly not including kobolds, depending on just how different kobolds are supposed to be.) But the dramatic hybrids that are fantasy icons - griffins, centaurs, and the like - in every setting I've seen, have either been just "there" independently with no explanation offered, or were works of great magic or divinity that then survived on their own. They didn't come across by random breeding.

[Granite26]

Y'know... I must have somehow missed encountering the fantasy settings where any random farmer could just toss any two creatures of the opposite gender together and have them produce a hybrid.

I'm not saying some commonly-encountered beings that are quite similar to one another shouldn't be able to reproduce. (The sentient races in vanilla, for instance, possibly not including kobolds, depending on just how different kobolds are supposed to be.) But the dramatic hybrids that are fantasy icons - griffins, centaurs, and the like - in every setting I've seen, have either been just "there" independently with no explanation offered, or were works of great magic or divinity that then survived on their own. They didn't come across by random breeding.

heh... You've got a point there.  Consider the Xanth setting though, or a wizard using magic to mix things.  Not as a default setting, but the capability to mix to things with magic or magical sex, or just creating new creatures as mixes randomly to create a unique critter or race or two during world gen.

Capabilities versus where they get used.

[Jude]

The combinatorial explosion of proportion-of-elfs would get ridiculous. Plus, none of it would make that much sense without meaningful genetics. If Toady is putting genetics in the game, I'm sure all they're going to do would be simulate a lot of dwarves' predetermined traits. Real genes do a lot more than that and would be a lot harder to simulate.

Plus, if we're talking about real genes, the whole idea makes little sense. If evolution took place in the DF world, then elves and humans probably share a common ancestor about a million or less years back, elves, dwarves and humans probably share one three or four million back, elves, humans dwarves and gnomes maybe 10 million years back, and so on. None of them would be able to interbreed anymore, except MAYBE elves and humans.

And  that, of course, serves as a good justification of why not to even mess with it, since in programming/gameplay terms it would add lots of difficulty and confusion and for no meaningful gain.

[Shurhaian]

Once magic gets introduced, things get... Interesting. With a capital I.

I think it would be really neat if you could order an attempt to make a custom hybrid, among other magical projects. Select what traits you want to breed into it, and your wizards will do their best. The more things you specify, rather than leaving to chance, the harder it is and the more failures are likely.

But they may require... breeding stock. And there may be all sorts of unhappy thoughts to being involved in such a project, especially if one of the involved parties is sentient(and doesn't have a specific entry for not minding that perverse sort of thing in the raws). Even if they can be compelled to comply - if that control ever slips...

For natural breeding, though, things would probably be relatively subtle. Breeding only within a "genus", for instance - defining the term loosely, and with, at least, dwarves, elves, and humans probably in the same genus.

Although I still think it would be better to make entries for these hybrids, A) having the support for a "blend" would allow for magic to come and muck with it later, and B) so long as you're not trying anything drastic like differing body structures, there probably is some room to leave it to chance.

Especially if there's going to be in-species variation beyond attribute gains in their current, simplified state.

If any hybrid had, by default, low or nil fertility(i.e. if there's not a viable species listing for it in the raws which would trump the auto-genned figures), that could help keep the hybrids from coming to rule the world - not that it isn't fun to sometimes see other races in a goblin raiding party, for instance, but anyway. For hybrids of sentients, there might be prejudice against them in most races' preferences, making them unlikely to breed and certainly unlikely to become a major portion of the populace. On the other hand, they might also get shoved into military roles, so a fortress might see a disproportionate number of them...

[CobaltKobold]

The combinatorial explosion of proportion-of-elfs would get ridiculous. Plus, none of it would make that much sense without meaningful genetics. If Toady is putting genetics in the game, I'm sure all they're going to do would be simulate a lot of dwarves' predetermined traits.

Presently, yes, as far as I'm understanding.

On the flip side, it'd be possible to just make all those creature tags act as genes, and maybe throw in some Mendelian (or semi-mendelian) interactions, which aren't at all hard for diploids.

[Granite26]

Heh.... now we know where animal men and their close association with the elves come from...

[Shurhaian]

Given elves' other tendencies and preferences, this is... scarily possible. Who knows what the druids are actually capable of?

[MuonDecay]

War-Giant Cave Kitten (tame)

[Craftling]

Im in favour of the Half Elves but not a Half Kobold, Half Dwarf or Half Goblin. In all fantasy (that I have ever seen) these races did not exist. Maybe its because Kobolds and Goblins are too bestial and dwarves are too reclusive?
 

[Cousarr]

I've seen half dwarves in the Dark Sun D&D setting. They're called Mul and are usually a result of rape. Most Mul end up as gladiators as the combined human and dwarf heritage provide a good physiology for that.

[darkflagrance]

Im in favour of the Half Elves but not a Half Kobold, Half Dwarf or Half Goblin. In all fantasy (that I have ever seen) these races did not exist. Maybe its because Kobolds and Goblins are too bestial and dwarves are too reclusive?
 

More likely, half elves make good pathos and sexy pictures, and it's easy to sympathize. The reaction the "normal" fantasy gamer has to the rest is disgust - better to hide them from public view.

It is called "fantasy" for a reason after all.

[CobaltKobold]

I've seen a half-kobold template. Half-goblins are actually probably the most likely to occur in vanilla DF, if you think about it.

Dwelfs are generally considered to just end up human in all practical respects, since you get stout/short/hairy+narrow/tall/smooth and get average/average/average (i know, fantasy genetics)

Half dwarfs, well, I ha'en't seen one either. Sure one's been storied somewherethough.