Post by: Taffer on April 21, 2012, 11:43:59 pm
(https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/raw/master/previews/world-map.gif)
DOWNLOAD (https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/-/archive/v6.6/taffer-v6.6.zip) & REPOSITORY (https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer)
Diagonal Walls
(https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/raw/master/previews/fonts.gif)
The diagonal walls tend to be fancier looking than my straight walls, and unlike most diagonal walls, square rooms still look pretty good with these tilesets. Blocks of solid wall look much nicer as well: this is best seen in Arena mode.
Three fonts are available with diagonal walls: sans-serif, cyrillic-inspired, and arabic-inspired.
Straight Walls
(https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/raw/master/previews/traditional.png)
If you want straight walls, these are for you. For the more traditional and orthagonally minded among you. Only sans-serif is available with straight walls.
(https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/raw/master/previews/palettes.gif)
Post by: Deon on April 22, 2012, 07:12:36 am
Post by: Vherid on April 22, 2012, 08:44:55 am
Post by: Taffer on April 22, 2012, 09:41:02 am
That's a nice font, and the double lined walls are interesting but are you sure he doesn't mean that with a single wall, when inverted it becomes double lined? 1+1=3.
Don't I feel silly? Of course that might be the case. He does mention specifically that they'll cause problems with the hidden engraving walls, which implies inverted double lines, not single. Either way, once I started going with the double lines I found I preferred it, once the corners were rounded off. The fortifications in particular just seem to make more sense. Knowing me though, if you're right, then I might switch back over eventually. The single line tiles inverted would have really wide tracks, so I'm not entirely sure that's what he's up to. Thanks for pointing it out. We'll have to see!
...Quote from: CruxadorIs the new route system based off or related to military patrols, or is it all new?
Are we getting diagonals mine tracks?
Are rails tiles the single lines or something else?
Toady, do rails work like other stone carvings? If not, how do they work?
Will wheelbarrows and carts all have their own tiles adjacent to the dwarves or beasts that pull them, or what's the deal there?
I had considered the old routes, but I decided to just make it new, so there wouldn't be fussing with points.
There are no diagonal mine tracks. It looks bad, and as people said, it causes rotation issues with larger objects. Hopefully there will be objects larger than one tile on tracks in the future.
I'm using inverted double lines for rails. Those'll either be distinguished from the hidden engravings walls through a color convention, or hidden engraving walls will be altered entirely. I don't like single line rails.
They work like stone carvings, but you have to do them in 1-wide/high rectangular sections to get the connections established between tiles.
I'm not sure how wheelbarrows and beasts will work out. The minecart pushing job isn't done either, but I'm pretty sure the dwarf will be walking behind the cart there.
...
Post by: Taffer on April 22, 2012, 10:04:55 am
It looks very clean and readable, a great ASCII set. Those fancy trees are nice as well.
Thanks for the compliment! I didn't want the trees too "3d", as they'd clash with the rest of the aesthetic, so I took my time fiddling with them.
Post by: RabblerouserGT on April 22, 2012, 11:02:20 am
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Post by: Urist McDonalds on April 22, 2012, 11:13:05 am
Post by: Taffer on April 22, 2012, 11:19:30 am
Oh... I do like what I see.
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Thanks! Glad you like it!
Where is the download link?
The image at the bottom of the post. This has no creature graphics, so it's just that pink image, same as the default ASCII game. Save it into data/art as taffer.png, then in data/init/init.txt, change the .png references to taffer.png. Specifically, [FONT:taffer.png] and [FULLFONT:taffer.png]. To change the color scheme, copy the desired colours into data/colors.txt.
Post by: ObeseHelmet on April 22, 2012, 11:52:51 am
Post by: RabblerouserGT on April 22, 2012, 01:17:06 pm
Pardon if I may not now much about colorschemes. I'm not very well-versed in ASCII.
Post by: Deon on April 22, 2012, 01:57:51 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 22, 2012, 02:53:13 pm
Many thanks. You have finally given me the reason to switch away from Markavian, which was getting a bit old anyway. Very clean and well designed.
Glad you like it! Markavian definitely has a different look. The walls remind me of cart tracks as it is, with the stripes in there.
What's the color scheme in the image, if I may ask.
Pardon if I may not now much about colorschemes. I'm not very well-versed in ASCII.
Vherid's Natural. I also love Tocky's set. Haven't you heard? Real is brown. (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=222)
I vary between them. Considered putting up my own version halfway between the two, but it would be close enough to Vherid's as to make the release pointless. I spent a day or two tooling around with colours, but never made a satisfactory colour scheme, and ended up just throwing in the towel.
Post by: Taffer on April 29, 2012, 05:03:14 pm
Post by: Nighthawk on April 29, 2012, 05:47:22 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 29, 2012, 06:35:25 pm
This tileset looks a hell of a lot like Vherid's. And yes, I read the OP and I know the color scheme is the same. But it's not just that... it... just... exactly like Vherid's. :-\
How so? Compare them side by side, you'll find differences in almost all of the tiles. Different fonts, different tiles for many things. The similarities largely stem from the use of Anikki's (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Tileset_repository#Anikki) 10x10 tiles, which predate both of us. I find his tileset looks similar to Anikki's. Compare them yourself. The credit to Vherid was for the floor hatch, as far as I can tell the rest of the tiles came from Anikki.
Short of not using ASCII-like tiles at all, I'm not quite sure what I can do about that. Most notably, the space/border tiles and the default dwarf are the same, thanks to Anikki, but much of the rest isn't. Perhaps it's because they're both 10x10? Even the floors, walls, bed, barrel tiles are different, which to me at least are some of the most distinguishing features of a tileset.
Vherid's moved in a different direction with his new Plague set, and this tileset isn't using any of it. I'll update the OP with Tocky's colour scheme in a day or two.
Post by: Vherid on April 30, 2012, 11:39:18 am
This tileset looks a hell of a lot like Vherid's. And yes, I read the OP and I know the color scheme is the same. But it's not just that... it... just... exactly like Vherid's. :-\
(http://localhostr.com/file/afGuFoD/Tiledifferences.png)
My regular tileset is based off of Anniki's base. In my tileset I colored all the changes I made to show the differences easily. Though many of them aren't something that I could truly say is "mine" considering like taffer here, I also did it as a compilation of the best of like 3 sets. The blue are what I could call my own ideas even if they were incredibly simple or not.
Now in taffer's tileset I colored the changes that I made that look like were carried over. However the two green tiles are really all I can call my own.
Post by: Nighthawk on April 30, 2012, 02:45:54 pm
Perhaps the two sets simply have similar styles.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 30, 2012, 03:19:15 pm
Whereas a straight ASCII set will tend to look very much the same as any other ASCII set, by necessity.
However, the wall tiles are very distinct between Vherid and Taffer's set. VERY distinct, in fact.
Post by: Taffer on April 30, 2012, 05:53:45 pm
Font-wise they are very similar. But then again there is only so much one can do with minimalistic letters and numbers. They must look different, all, and they must be recognizable. So nearly all of the tilesets out there look pretty much the same, besides the ones that try to get more funky and graphical (like the Plague or Phoebus)
Whereas a straight ASCII set will tend to look very much the same as any other ASCII set, by necessity.
However, the wall tiles are very distinct between Vherid and Taffer's set. VERY distinct, in fact.
Very distinct? Hopefully in a good way. (I kid.) It took me a bit to get used to the new walls, but now I don't think I'd go back, I like them too much. Particularly the fortifications. The tops of towers in adventurer mode look nicer this way, I think.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 30, 2012, 09:32:07 pm
Post by: Corai on April 30, 2012, 09:48:45 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 30, 2012, 10:06:08 pm
Using this beautiful tile-pack. Be proud, the all-mighty ruler of kobolds uses your pack.
Oh, I'm proud. Very proud. Watching my masterfully crafted mugs and socks carefully, but I'm still proud.
Post by: Taffer on May 17, 2012, 06:21:08 am
Post by: Urist McDonalds on May 20, 2012, 08:14:06 am
Oh... I do like what I see.
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Thanks! Glad you like it!Where is the download link?
The image at the bottom of the post. This has no creature graphics, so it's just that pink image, same as the default ASCII game. Save it into data/art as taffer.png, then in data/init/init.txt, change the .png references to taffer.png. Specifically, [FONT:taffer.png] and [FULLFONT:taffer.png]. To change the color scheme, copy the desired colours into data/colors.txt.
Doesn't work...
Says: Not found: data/art/taffer.png
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2012, 08:24:24 am
Oh... I do like what I see.
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Thanks! Glad you like it!Where is the download link?
The image at the bottom of the post. This has no creature graphics, so it's just that pink image, same as the default ASCII game. Save it into data/art as taffer.png, then in data/init/init.txt, change the .png references to taffer.png. Specifically, [FONT:taffer.png] and [FULLFONT:taffer.png]. To change the color scheme, copy the desired colours into data/colors.txt.
Doesn't work...
Says: Not found: data/art/taffer.png
Did you follow that bit?
Post by: Urist McDonalds on May 20, 2012, 08:25:13 am
Oh... I do like what I see.
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Thanks! Glad you like it!Where is the download link?
The image at the bottom of the post. This has no creature graphics, so it's just that pink image, same as the default ASCII game. Save it into data/art as taffer.png, then in data/init/init.txt, change the .png references to taffer.png. Specifically, [FONT:taffer.png] and [FULLFONT:taffer.png]. To change the color scheme, copy the desired colours into data/colors.txt.
Doesn't work...
Says: Not found: data/art/taffer.png
Did you follow that bit?
Didn't quite understand you.
Which bit?
Which that?
More specific please?
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2012, 08:26:26 am
Oh... I do like what I see.
This might just be the set that lets me stick with ASCII
Thanks! Glad you like it!Where is the download link?
The image at the bottom of the post. This has no creature graphics, so it's just that pink image, same as the default ASCII game. Save it into data/art as taffer.png, then in data/init/init.txt, change the .png references to taffer.png. Specifically, [FONT:taffer.png] and [FULLFONT:taffer.png]. To change the color scheme, copy the desired colours into data/colors.txt.
Doesn't work...
Says: Not found: data/art/taffer.png
Did you follow that bit?
Didn't quite understand you.
Which bit?
Which that?
More specific please?
Post by: Urist McDonalds on May 20, 2012, 08:29:19 am
Post by: Taffer on May 20, 2012, 06:56:34 pm
In the init file, you don't need to put the directory names in, just :taffer.png will suffice. If it doesn't work, then one of the above steps is wrong. Another possible source of error: Windows can hide the file name extensions, so the file might actually be called taffer.png.png. Who knows. Additionally, colors.txt is in data/init, not just data. Minor mistake in my earlier instructions.
Hopefully this helped!
Post by: Taffer on May 22, 2012, 07:10:53 pm
The update caught me by surprise, so I decided to make the tileset a little closer to the ASCII. The default set's chair, table, and bridge ends all line up nicely with the walls, and in the interest of having nicer looking track ends, and to keep in line with potential future additions, so do mine now.
I've also made an alternate version, with solid walls instead of the double lines. They look quite nice as well, and are growing on me.
Update up as soon as I get a fort good enough for a screenshot, and finish testing the double line version. The mining changes really seemed to slow down everything, and I certainly have a lot less stone than I did before.
Post by: Taffer on May 23, 2012, 06:23:58 pm
Post by: vidboi on May 29, 2012, 09:25:41 am
Last update posted, with alternate. I can do requests, but barring another new version that mucks things up or a mysteriously-hitherto-undiscovered-graphical-oddity (unlikely), this is looking to be good, even for a perfectionist like me. Please don't hesitate to post, and check back every now and then just in case!
I've been using your tileset for a while and I have to say it's by far the best I've seen. I edited mine slightly due to a preference for sans-serif typefaces and I only have a couple of other minor changes to bring up. Firstly the barrel symbol is also used in screw pumps and looks a bit odd. The £ symbol also seems to fit poorly with the rest of the set. Other than that it's really clean and attractive tileset with the best bits from the more traditional ascii and more detailed sets out there.
Post by: Taffer on May 29, 2012, 10:46:51 am
Last update posted, with alternate. I can do requests, but barring another new version that mucks things up or a mysteriously-hitherto-undiscovered-graphical-oddity (unlikely), this is looking to be good, even for a perfectionist like me. Please don't hesitate to post, and check back every now and then just in case!
I've been using your tileset for a while and I have to say it's by far the best I've seen. I edited mine slightly due to a preference for sans-serif typefaces and I only have a couple of other minor changes to bring up. Firstly the barrel symbol is also used in screw pumps and looks a bit odd. The £ symbol also seems to fit poorly with the rest of the set. Other than that it's really clean and attractive tileset with the best bits from the more traditional ascii and more detailed sets out there.
Thank you for the compliment, and the report! Done and done. Metal symbol should hopefully fit in better, and I've sacrificed cool little barrel icons for a more vanilla feel, keeping the "barreled" versions up. Let me know if it's what you had in mind! I tried to get a better division symbol, but kept with that one for consistency with the % symbol for screw pumps.
Post by: vidboi on May 29, 2012, 11:03:25 am
Thank you for the compliment, and the report! Done and done. Metal symbol should hopefully fit in better, and I've sacrificed cool little barrel icons for a more vanilla feel, keeping the "barreled" versions up. Let me know if it's what you had in mind! I tried to get a better division symbol, but kept with that one for consistency with the % symbol for screw pumps.
That's alright, and I know what you mean about the division symbol. The more "realistic" barrel icon looks nicer. Perhaps it would be a good idea to change both the flat and slanted division symbols to reach a compromise where the barrels look good but the screw pumps are still consistent?
edit: It might be idea to completely change the secondary tile of the screw pump. The only other non-changable item using that tile is prepared meals, and there isn't really a tile design set aside for that so I doubt that it would matter changing it. I'm thinking of changing mine to the same as tile 126 (the single tilde) to look like fluid flow. No rock currently uses that tile so there shouldn't be any need for raw changes either.
Post by: Taffer on May 29, 2012, 11:19:28 am
Thank you for the compliment, and the report! Done and done. Metal symbol should hopefully fit in better, and I've sacrificed cool little barrel icons for a more vanilla feel, keeping the "barreled" versions up. Let me know if it's what you had in mind! I tried to get a better division symbol, but kept with that one for consistency with the % symbol for screw pumps.
That's alright, and I know what you mean about the division symbol. The more "realistic" barrel icon looks nicer. Perhaps it would be a good idea to change both the flat and slanted division symbols to reach a compromise where the barrels look good but the screw pumps are still consistent?
edit: It might be idea to completely change the secondary tile of the screw pump. The only other non-changable item using that tile is prepared meals, and there isn't really a tile design set aside for that so I doubt that it would matter changing it. I'm thinking of changing mine to the same as tile 126 (the single tilde) to look like fluid flow. No rock currently uses that tile so there shouldn't be any need for raw changes either.
I'm not sure if there's a solution to this that I'm satisfied with. For complete compatibility with mods and future updates, I'd like to stick close to the default. The division symbol is more abstract and unlikely to be used, but replacing the percentage symbol seems likely to bite me in the ass sooner or later. I've been fiddling with things, but no luck so far.
Post by: vidboi on May 29, 2012, 12:06:52 pm
I'm not sure if there's a solution to this that I'm satisfied with. For complete compatibility with mods and future updates, I'd like to stick close to the default. The division symbol is more abstract and unlikely to be used, but replacing the percentage symbol seems likely to bite me in the ass sooner or later. I've been fiddling with things, but no luck so far.
I had a look through the tileset repository and the only style of barrel used that wasn't Anikki one or the original fraction symbol is in an old tileset by savok which has multiple horzontal lines instead of vertical.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Inverting the colours seems to work quite well, giving these kind of results for barrels and pumps:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sure it could do with some work but it's the only compromise I've found that works.
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on May 29, 2012, 12:09:10 pm
Post by: Taffer on May 29, 2012, 12:47:54 pm
I had a look through the tileset repository and the only style of barrel used that wasn't Anikki one or the original fraction symbol is in an old tileset by savok which has multiple horzontal lines instead of vertical.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Inverting the colours seems to work quite well, giving these kind of results for barrels and pumps:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sure it could do with some work but it's the only compromise I've found that works.
I saw that tile. Let me experiment with things for a little and see what I think. Now that you've mentioned the problem it's been driving me nuts. I think I'll stick with what I have up for now, but I'll be tinkering with it for the next while to see what I think. Thanks again for bringing it to my attention! To my chagrin (I kind of miss my nice barrels), I think I'll need to stick with what I have. The three lines are nice, but if they don't look like a rotated screw pump % then I might a well stick with the best barrel option.
well I hope you do stick to how vanilla is setup, Regeneration is going to be Ascii based for a bit and having this linked as a suggested Tileset. So please :P try your best to keep it as close to vanilla, at least tile position and looks wise. Great work btw
I'm honored! More exposure is more better. Never fear, sticking close to ASCII isn't an option, it's a necessity.
Post by: Taffer on June 08, 2012, 11:11:53 am
I'm not sure if there's a solution to this that I'm satisfied with. For complete compatibility with mods and future updates, I'd like to stick close to the default. The division symbol is more abstract and unlikely to be used, but replacing the percentage symbol seems likely to bite me in the ass sooner or later. I've been fiddling with things, but no luck so far.
I had a look through the tileset repository and the only style of barrel used that wasn't Anikki one or the original fraction symbol is in an old tileset by savok which has multiple horzontal lines instead of vertical.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Inverting the colours seems to work quite well, giving these kind of results for barrels and pumps:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sure it could do with some work but it's the only compromise I've found that works.
Post by: Taffer on June 09, 2012, 11:09:14 am
EDIT: Also threw up a better version, and redid the first post. After the last flurry of updates I'm out, unless somebody manages to fix my
Post by: Taffer on July 04, 2012, 10:50:35 am
As stated, more obvious changes than usual, details are in the changelog. Most obvious are the stylization of dwarves, withered plants/tendrils, and the stockpile symbol getting a little fatter to match the aesthetic. I've not updated the alternates as the list was growing unwieldy, and the changelog has been eliminated with the exception of the last change, which houses the alternates and the last version if the changes are disliked. If updated alternates or older versions are requested I'll happily post or PM them. I was considering abandoning the few graphical symbols remaining in favour of the "card suits" of the proper game, but even I'm not ready for that change yet. If I get a request I'll make it happen, though, probably as an alternate. Seriously considering, at a minimum, restoring cedar trees to their glorifious, weird vertical resize arrow selves, but feedback on this would be great.
Pansy adventurer mode screenshots for now as my current fort is somewhat lacking. Will stealthily update original post when it gets better. I'd promise that this is the last version, but the last two times I thought that I proved myself terrifically wrong. Still, I think the new version is much better than the old versions, and as I've had no dissent thus far I suppose progress is better than silence. Please let me know what you think!
EDIT: Back sooner than expected. Whipped up "vanilla" versions with default card suits, thus bringing Taffer entirely in line with the ASCII.
Post by: Krabocopter on August 04, 2012, 07:45:34 pm
I've already been using it for quite some time and will post the screens of my fortress
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BywsLJtd2usmMWcwcWUwbUhQelk
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BywsLJtd2usmbjUwQnVqakoyV0U
Post by: Taffer on August 05, 2012, 12:54:33 pm
I'd really like to say thank you for your splendid work
I've already been using it for quite some time and will post the screens of my fortress
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BywsLJtd2usmMWcwcWUwbUhQelk
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BywsLJtd2usmbjUwQnVqakoyV0U
Thank you for the screenshots, and the compliment! Mind if I link to the post in the thread? I confess that I'm lacking in good screenshots right now. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I'll see if I can anticipate the next release, with those footprints and paw prints. The second last tile might be a bit too small compared to the original, but I'll see what happens with the next release.
Post by: Krabocopter on August 05, 2012, 01:42:14 pm
Post by: Taffer on August 06, 2012, 09:28:57 pm
You're welcome to use my screens
Thank you kindly. I just linked to them in the thread, it's nice to get additional screenshots up for people. I was jealous of your embark and puzzled by the trees and rocks, until I realized that you were running a mod.
Post by: Krabocopter on August 16, 2012, 07:18:14 pm
You're welcome to use my screens
Thank you kindly. I just linked to them in the thread, it's nice to get additional screenshots up for people. I was jealous of your embark and puzzled by the trees and rocks, until I realized that you were running a mod.
I'm not running any mod
I usually play vanilla
Post by: Taffer on October 13, 2012, 09:46:32 am
Parts of the tileset give me pause, so I'm asking for feedback on them. Where possible, I've stuck to thick lines in the tileset as opposed to thin lines. The "-" symbol, barrels, and perhaps most noticeably, the stockpile "=". Do people like the extra thickness, or is the more traditional one pixel thinness attractive? For the confused, see Tocky's tileset (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/d/dc/Tocky_square_10x10.png).
Are people content with the "card symbols" on the vanilla versions? Any changes requested, or are people content?
Let me know!
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 13, 2012, 10:22:49 am
Post by: Taffer on October 19, 2012, 10:19:21 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/9TKor.png)
Edit: Updated! Final version is not the above, as I slightly modified the soldier tile at the last minute. Also, in case anybody misses the links to the previous versions in the changelog, I've archived the previous version below, in spoiler tags, in case anybody disliked the changes. Let me know if any of the changes are disliked, and I'll whip up a version without the change, and consider reverting it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Fortport on November 13, 2012, 08:12:32 am
This looks really good. I'm going to try it.
Post by: 0cu on November 13, 2012, 08:18:42 am
This may sound a little derpy of me, but where is the download link? I cannot find it.
This looks really good. I'm going to try it.
You just need to save the images with right-click.
OP, could you please post new screenshots?
Post by: Taffer on November 13, 2012, 10:34:38 pm
This may sound a little derpy of me, but where is the download link? I cannot find it.
This looks really good. I'm going to try it.
I hope you enjoy it! Did you manage to get it working? There's installation instructions on the front page, and I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
I can put up download links if people prefer, but as there aren't creature graphics, only the one tileset image, I've never seen much of a point. I'm hesitant to bundle it with the colour scheme, as I'd rather people have minor difficulties setting up a new one than have people annoyed, attempting to change it back.
You just need to save the images with right-click.
OP, could you please post new screenshots?
I do need new screenshots. I admit that I copped out a little with the current one. I'm currently away from home for a while, with just my phone and an old netbook that seems to hate DF. I'm home on the weekends, but between wedding planning and seeing friends, at the moment it tends to leave me with little time for video games (blasphemy!). I'll fire up DF this weekend and see what I can do. Perhaps adventure mode might be in order. I'm sorry I can't get any up sooner! I'm tempted to cheat and edit some of the old screenshots to use the newest version of the tileset.
Post by: Taffer on November 18, 2012, 09:43:18 am
... [snip]
OP, could you please post new screenshots?
Done! Screenshots are of Haunted Halls (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115386.0), as my own fortress this weekend was not as impressive. Apologies for taking a bit! I hope the screenshots are good!
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2012, 12:05:46 pm
For everyone who prefers large tilesets. 20x20, still very much a work in progress. It's giving me whole new things to obsess over, pixel-wise.
I'd initially been hoping to make an 18x18, so it could dropped in with CLA, but as scaling is an issue and the aesthetic would have had to change, I decided to stick with what I know.
NOTE: Changes were made to the large version since this preview was taken, so don't take the above too seriously.
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2012, 01:56:07 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/CJwsE.png) (http://i.imgur.com/3k1ym.png)
EDIT: Decided to put them up a little early, as I'm reasonably sure I've worked out all the quirks with them. Still requesting comments! Also, as a minor footnote, I found some problems with the original tileset while I was doubling it, but as the changes are pretty minor I quietly swapped out the tilesets and didn't make a big fuss out of it.
Post by: CLA on December 08, 2012, 02:40:37 pm
Looks great, by the way.
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2012, 03:20:24 pm
You could always just add a 1px border around the CLA creatures making them 20x20.
Looks great, by the way.
Thanks for the compliment! Your graphics set is awesome! I'd love to combine Taffer & CLA for people, either by attempting to shrink these tilesets or expanding CLA's creatures with a border. Perhaps I can work something out for people, as there would likely be some interest.
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2012, 07:34:40 pm
Post by: malmstrom on December 14, 2012, 12:33:36 pm
Is it possible to have one zip file with CLA+Taffer already merged? It seems that I mess something when I put both on work :(
Post by: Taffer on December 14, 2012, 01:50:52 pm
wow!! Really nice!!
Is it possible to have one zip file with CLA+Taffer already merged? It seems that I mess something when I put both on work :(
I'm glad you like it! While I'm sure CLA might be willing, I am unwilling to provide a zip file that's already merged, as I feel it would be unintentionally taking credit for his work and would cause some confusion with people. I definitely don't want to try to "steal his thunder." I'll be glad to help correct your problem, though! You had a working CLA installation beforehand, then copied my addon over top of it? How specifically is it not working?
- If the game does not want to fire up at all, then perhaps you didn't have a full copy of CLA beforehand, and unzipped my addon over top of the standalone version of CLA. In that case, your problem is that you don't actually have Dwarf Fortress, but merely addons for it. Try unzipping my addon over the full version of CLA. Alternatively, perhaps you edited data/init/init.txt or data/init/d_init.txt to change my tileset version, or edit some settings, and entered something in wrong. Note that my initial installation instructions were wrong, as I incorrectly claimed those files were inside the data directory, not data/init. This shouldn't have messed up your game though, unless you moved the files there in confusion.
- If the game works perfectly fine, but simply is "vanilla" CLA, then it's an easy fix. The first version I had up had my files inside of a folder called taffercla. Following my installation instructions, you may simply have copied that directory into your game folder, where it's currently sitting uselessly, as the game won't look in there. Move the contents of that taffercla over top of your game, replacing the existing data and raw folders with my new ones. Sorry for the confusion!
- If everything seems to be in order, but your minecarts look odd in your saved game, it's because I had to take those graphics out, as I'm unable to get them working with Tocky's colours. (I know, I'm sad too.) This means you need to copy and paste my raw folder over top of your saved game's raw folder, located somewhere inside data/save. Minecarts and tracks will work fine after this, of course, and will go back to looking like they do in vanilla DF.
I just updated the CLA+Taffer file and description to preemptively remedy some of the issues I just described. I think I've covered every problem that I can think of, but if none of that works, let me know.
Post by: Vherid on December 14, 2012, 05:18:44 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 14, 2012, 06:05:25 pm
Hmmm, I think the 20x20 definitely needs some tweaking. Something about it, to me at least, just doesn't have the same charm. I think it's a lot of the edges and things like that, once blown up look kind of awkward and need be restored to their crispness at the bigger size.
I think you're right. It does needs some work. Fortunately, I just got home again today, and now have a lot of time again to play Dwarf Fortress and take another look at the large tilesets. Thanks for the critique. I'll accumulate some changes over the next few days so as to avoid twelve or thirteen cumulative revisions.
Post by: Fortport on December 19, 2012, 07:11:45 am
Your alias, was it encouraged or even inspired by the Thief series? Or was it something you came up with originally?
Post by: Taffer on December 19, 2012, 09:14:44 am
This might be really off topic, but, I've a question Taffer.
Your alias, was it encouraged or even inspired by the Thief series? Or was it something you came up with originally?
My alias is a reference to the Thief series, the first two being some of my favourite games. Played fan missions for years with dwindling frequency.
Unrelated, but the large tileset update is giving me difficulties, so it might be a bit yet before it gets updated.
Post by: Fortport on December 19, 2012, 06:30:12 pm
Also, likewise. I too liked Thief: The dark project, and Thief: The metal age. (Or you can just call them thief 1 and thief 2.) Nye. Taffer.
Post by: Vherid on December 20, 2012, 08:22:34 pm
Unrelated, but the large tileset update is giving me difficulties, so it might be a bit yet before it gets updated.
They're harder to make as if they fit, appearance wise.
Post by: Yuli Vlasi on December 24, 2012, 04:41:40 am
OH SWEET ARMOK, THIS IS GLORIOUS!
~~ Taffer & CLA - together at last ~~
EDIT: Just stitched the two together, IT LIVES
Post by: Taffer on December 24, 2012, 10:50:36 am
OH SWEET ARMOK, THIS IS GLORIOUS!
~~ Taffer & CLA - together at last ~~
EDIT: Just stitched the two together, IT LIVES
I'm pleased you like it. After Christmas, I'm planning on finishing up the second version of the larger tilesets, which will likely result in a more pleasing aesthetic. Keep an eye open. Cheers!
EDIT: I've stealthily, in ninja-like fashion, done a quiet update of the larger tilesets. Some of the most egregious problems were fixed, to my mind, although the CLA addon remains without an update. I still think they look fairly good overall, it's just that large tilesets aren't my own cup of tea. More updates are promised.
Post by: a_bee on February 05, 2013, 04:25:05 am
now i can play without graphic pack..
thanks for great work Taffer.
Post by: Taffer on February 05, 2013, 07:02:06 pm
i really like this tileset. i mean really like a lot.. :3
now i can play without graphic pack..
thanks for great work Taffer.
You're welcome. Happy 'dorfing'!
Post by: Deon on February 06, 2013, 01:00:56 am
Post by: Taffer on February 14, 2013, 10:54:21 am
I used your tileset in Fallout 1.0 for ASCII, thanks man.
Better late than never, but you're welcome. Thanks for your mods!
Post by: Taffer on February 15, 2013, 11:44:58 pm
Post by: Urist_McDagger on February 20, 2013, 11:39:22 pm
Post by: turabeasel on April 16, 2013, 09:35:56 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 16, 2013, 10:28:48 pm
Is there any way to do a 15x15 in addition to the 10x10 and 20x20? The former is to small for my little macbook air and the latter is to large. I think the 15x15 would be just right. ;D
I've been considering a middling size, but I might have to pass on that. As silly as it sounds, the tilesets genuinely took up a lot of time for me, obsessing over small details. The 20x20 was comparatively easy as it was doubling the size of the original, not redrawing everything. Working with such small sizes means that it scales poorly at best. With that being said, I'll see what I can do.
It may not console you, seeing as size is the issue, but I'm working on new alternates with diagonal walls, for a more geometric, rounded look as an alternative. I'm also looking into bitmap fonts. I expect to have the thread updated with the improvements tomorrow or the day after, if I encounter problems with the bitmap font.
Post by: turabeasel on April 17, 2013, 08:34:12 am
Post by: Taffer on April 18, 2013, 11:04:31 pm
Before:
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/vzzccg.jpg)
After:
(http://oi48.tinypic.com/s6hzxl.jpg)
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/vzzccg.jpg)
After:
(http://oi48.tinypic.com/s6hzxl.jpg)
Post by: Godlysockpuppet on April 19, 2013, 10:13:30 am
Post by: Vherid on April 19, 2013, 08:19:00 pm
Post by: mkmr on April 19, 2013, 11:12:55 pm
The lower left lowercase b, looks awkward with that one pixel.
I agree, that b looks wierd. Otherwise, great job with the diagonals.
Post by: Taffer on April 20, 2013, 06:09:16 am
The lower left lowercase b, looks awkward with that one pixel.
I agree, that b looks wierd. Otherwise, great job with the diagonals.
As per requests, fixed. The front post is updated. Personally I rather liked the errant pixel there, but I understand why it would annoy. Made it look almost handwritten.
Other than that, I'm glad people like it. Thanks!
Post by: CLA on April 20, 2013, 08:51:50 am
Have you thought about how the diagonal walls will look with trees in the next version?
I'm thinking about using crenelated walls for my own tileset.
Post by: Taffer on April 20, 2013, 12:14:48 pm
I like the diagonal walls. Not too convinced on the font though. I think it's too small for serif to work well. Mostly it looks alright (apart from the 'b' as mentioned, but the uppercase 'W' as well), but if you compare it to the old font, I think it's better.
Have you thought about how the diagonal walls will look with trees in the next version?
I'm thinking about using crenelated walls for my own tileset.
I looked at the 'W', but it's not really fixable without making the letter sans serif, which will look out of place, or by pushing the letter outwards by two pixels. This makes it no longer align with other capitals, and is therefore even more noticeable.
Personally, I think the font works quite well, even at a small size. The 'b' is fixed, and the 'W' isn't that bad. When I'm not working quite so much (in a day or two), I can post some sans versions if you like. The number of tilesets might get unwieldy; I would then be up to 8 of them.
As to the trees, it should be fine, although the more traditional tiles will work better. Larger trees will look much more natural, as the corners will be nicely sloped, but any 4x4 trees will be diamond shaped. The branches will be further from the trunk than they are in the version with corners, but even then, I don't think it'll be very noticeable, but I could end up biting my words.
When I have some time I could throw up a picture if you like. It will be a good representation, provided that the multi-tile tree screenshots Toady posted remain accurate. I think both types will fare better than the default tileset, which has trees with rather sharp looking corners. Reminds me of Minecraft. Still much better than single tile trees, so I'm not complaining.
I like crenelated walls. It won't work well for trees or rivers, which is why I haven't used them, but most people don't seem to mind that, so it'll likely work well. Looking forward to seeing it!
Post by: thistleknot on April 21, 2013, 05:27:53 pm
Would there be much interest in a TTF version? I attempted to convert it, but it doesn't appear to display properly, so I'm thinking I've mucked things up along the way. I'll see if I can fix things up if there's any interest.
yes please, I use dfterm2
Post by: Taffer on April 21, 2013, 07:05:52 pm
Would there be much interest in a TTF version? I attempted to convert it, but it doesn't appear to display properly, so I'm thinking I've mucked things up along the way. I'll see if I can fix things up if there's any interest.
yes please, I use dfterm2
Done. Would you kindly let me know if they work properly? I have no means of testing presently.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48215832/taffer-ttfs.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48215832/taffer-ttfs.zip)
Post by: Meph on April 21, 2013, 07:09:04 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/E5Sqnx7.png)
Post by: Taffer on April 21, 2013, 07:13:57 pm
Yes, they work.
Many thanks. Looks "blocky", but I surmise that's unavoidable.
Post by: TKGP on April 21, 2013, 08:04:42 pm
Having said all that I'll take this opportunity to mention that I absolutely love your tiles. Never leave home without 'em.
Post by: Taffer on April 21, 2013, 08:14:11 pm
Personally I dislike the new font. The old one is simple and bold, very easy to recognize, whereas the new one seems cramped and busy. I also prefer the less embellished style for representing creatures, on account of how abstract it is. Of course, I can always just edit them back in if I feel the need to get a newer version, so it's not a big deal.
Having said all that I'll take this opportunity to mention that I absolutely love your tiles. Never leave home without 'em.
I'm creating sans serif versions tomorrow, so stay tuned! I think I like Saikyo Serif a little too much to ditch it, so 8 tilesets it is.
Post by: Taffer on April 23, 2013, 11:28:42 am
I like the diagonal walls. Not too convinced on the font though. I think it's too small for serif to work well. Mostly it looks alright (apart from the 'b' as mentioned, but the uppercase 'W' as well), but if you compare it to the old font, I think it's better.
Personally I dislike the new font. The old one is simple and bold, very easy to recognize, whereas the new one seems cramped and busy. I also prefer the less embellished style for representing creatures, on account of how abstract it is. Of course, I can always just edit them back in if I feel the need to get a newer version, so it's not a big deal.
Having said all that I'll take this opportunity to mention that I absolutely love your tiles. Never leave home without 'em.
Front post is updated. Alternate font is Victoria Bold. Hope you like it! The font (http://opengameart.org/sites/default/files/font_preview_0.GIF) that I had in mind originally for sans, Hoshi, was a little too small, but it had character. Victoria is my compromise. As both the original font and the new one are sans serif, differences are minor at best, but I think this is a bit of an improvement. If the changes are still disliked, I can update the alternate font again.
Post by: Vherid on April 25, 2013, 06:07:36 pm
I like the diagonal walls. Not too convinced on the font though. I think it's too small for serif to work well. Mostly it looks alright (apart from the 'b' as mentioned, but the uppercase 'W' as well), but if you compare it to the old font, I think it's better.Personally I dislike the new font. The old one is simple and bold, very easy to recognize, whereas the new one seems cramped and busy. I also prefer the less embellished style for representing creatures, on account of how abstract it is. Of course, I can always just edit them back in if I feel the need to get a newer version, so it's not a big deal.
Having said all that I'll take this opportunity to mention that I absolutely love your tiles. Never leave home without 'em.
Front post is updated. Alternate font is Victoria Bold. Hope you like it! The font (http://opengameart.org/sites/default/files/font_preview_0.GIF) that I had in mind originally for sans, Hoshi, was a little too small, but it had character. Victoria is my compromise. As both the original font and the new one are sans serif, differences are minor at best, but I think this is a bit of an improvement. If the changes are still disliked, I can update the alternate font again.
That hoshi is nice.
Post by: Taffer on April 26, 2013, 04:33:49 pm
That hoshi is nice.
Yes it is. Victoria Bold is almost the same font, but one pixel taller. Hoshi might work better with a 9x9 tileset, but, frankly, I have little interest in making one. The actual font collection is located here (http://opengameart.org/content/the-new-collection-of-8-bit-fonts-for-grafx2).
Have you thought about how the diagonal walls will look with trees in the next version?
I'm thinking about using crenelated walls for my own tileset.
I just posted mock screenshots in another thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125004.msg4205904#msg4205904). As previously stated, they should be accurate, provided that the screenshots Toady posted on 09/23/2012 remain accurate.
Post by: Taffer on June 17, 2013, 08:41:27 pm
Please post bugs, requests, screenshots, and general comments. Unless everything blows up in my face and people dislike things, I'll be updating my wiki page and dffd soon. Happy 'dorfing'!
Post by: Obsidian Soul on June 17, 2013, 10:09:48 pm
And great to see more variety in the graphics sets now. :)
Post by: Taffer on June 18, 2013, 02:00:38 pm
So I'm guessing it's a graphic set now? :P I created a screenshot of your set using the same fortress I used in the other sets in the updated wiki page, in case you wanted one. IMO, it's easier using the same location so browsers can quickly tell how they differ from each other. You can see it here (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Zscr-taffer.jpg) (File:Zscr-taffer.jpg). But my fortress is dinky, LOL (I've actually abandoned it already as it didn't have flux). So your call on whether to use it or not. :)
And great to see more variety in the graphics sets now. :)
That screenshot is fine! Thanks! Apologies for the late reply. Your fortress is better than mine currently is. My graphics set is rather limited right now to the "main races", but I'm toying with the idea of doing more. We'll see. The small size would limit readability for creature graphics, and I like the emphasis on intelligent races. If the set expands it will be to gremlins, trolls, etc. I wanted to give elves, kobolds, humans, and goblins the same treatment in ASCII as dwarves get. Now if only their tiles would display for their caged, dead, and unseen versions, then all would be well.
Post by: Obsidian Soul on June 19, 2013, 07:57:15 am
Post by: Vherid on June 28, 2013, 03:33:58 pm
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2013, 06:38:26 pm
I'd like to use your walls for my 10x10.
Sure thing. Which ones, out of curiosity? A credit in the readme would be nice if they're the hollow walls or diagonal walls, as they were drawn by me. (The straight solid walls are dubious, as they're only a pixel off from Tocky's.) Cheers!
Post by: Vherid on June 28, 2013, 06:45:03 pm
I'd like to use your walls for my 10x10.
Sure thing. Which ones, out of curiosity? A credit in the readme would be nice, the walls were drawn by me. Cheers!
All of them? I don't like Anniki's anymore and walls are the one thing I really don't like making.
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2013, 06:52:25 pm
Sure thing. Which ones, out of curiosity? A credit in the readme would be nice, the walls were drawn by me. Cheers!
All of them? I don't like Anniki's anymore and walls are the one thing I really don't like making.
Could I get away with requesting another colour scheme? :P I'm always looking for more, but many of them end up being somewhat dark and difficult to understand. I've been using Tocky and Grim Fortress colour schemes for quite a while now. I keep making them and giving up when they end up looking dark. My last attempt used the DawnBringer (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/64505.htm) palette.
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2013, 06:54:52 pm
Post by: Vherid on June 28, 2013, 07:03:59 pm
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2013, 07:07:56 pm
Uh, sure. What kind of scheme do you want? Do you want something similar to the dawnbringer palette that works? Also what do you mean by a larger 10x10?
I was mostly thinking out loud, honestly. Don't worry about it, I just like your selection of colour schemes. By larger I mean larger in scope, rather than size. I'm thinking of expanding my creature graphics while keeping the tileset purely ASCII, to get the "best of both worlds" as it were.
Post by: Vherid on June 28, 2013, 07:14:14 pm
Uh, sure. What kind of scheme do you want? Do you want something similar to the dawnbringer palette that works? Also what do you mean by a larger 10x10?
I was mostly thinking out loud, honestly. Don't worry about it, I just like your selection of colour schemes. By larger I mean larger in scope, rather than size. I'm thinking of expanding my creature graphics while keeping the tileset purely ASCII, to get the "best of both worlds" as it were.
lol. Well I'm sure I'll clamber around with more color-schemes at some point, I'm about to release the update for my total set all together with a few tweaks to a few schemes, and some of the sets. Not sure what I would do to help you with your tileset in terms of 'expanding' it, I don't know if I can do creature graphics.
Post by: Taffer on June 29, 2013, 01:52:45 pm
The DFFD has been updated, and now also includes vanilla colours (in case you dislike Tocky), and better keybindings, for your convenience.
Post by: sp4ztique on June 30, 2013, 03:41:57 am
It appears to be correct in the images in the first post of this thread, so maybe the version included in the CLA add on is an old one?
Post by: Taffer on June 30, 2013, 02:25:07 pm
Loving this tileset, I've noticed a glitch in the CLA version of it though: The wall character that looks like a backwards L, the version for joining 2 smoothed walls has the tile from the version that joins a smoothed wall and an unsmoothed one. The broken tile is the one directly underneath the 1/4 tile.
It appears to be correct in the images in the first post of this thread, so maybe the version included in the CLA add on is an old one?
Thank you, and thanks for reminding me. I've been meaning to bring the double-sized versions up to speed. Give me a bit of time and I'll update the CLA version twice. Once with a corrected tileset, and once with the newer versions once I've gotten a better method of upscaling.
Post by: Taffer on July 07, 2013, 11:30:13 pm
Loving this tileset, I've noticed a glitch in the CLA version of it though: The wall character that looks like a backwards L, the version for joining 2 smoothed walls has the tile from the version that joins a smoothed wall and an unsmoothed one. The broken tile is the one directly underneath the 1/4 tile.
It appears to be correct in the images in the first post of this thread, so maybe the version included in the CLA add on is an old one?
Apologies. I've been really busy lately (that is, my wedding), so I haven't had much time to work things out. I just spent a few hours fiddling about with GNU Octave in order to get the tileset resizer from here on the forums to work, but as I have Windows 8 first Octave and now the scripts are going pear-shaped, so I'm calling it quits, so the double-sized versions are not updated to the nicer font until things cease being crazy.
I have fixed the download for you, however, and should have done so immediately rather than wait to update everything.
Post by: Taffer on October 16, 2013, 07:10:59 pm
Post by: Vherid on December 13, 2013, 10:12:14 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 17, 2013, 09:37:27 am
The lower left corner of the capital O letter has a missing piece in your 2x version.
Thanks for the heads up! It's fixed now. A stray scale2x artifact. Cheers!
Post by: Tarycan on January 17, 2014, 11:00:02 pm
Post by: Taffer on January 18, 2014, 01:35:39 pm
I love your tileset, it's so beautiful & elegant! Thanks for making this!
You're welcome. I'm happy you enjoy it! Let me know if you have any feedback or questions!
Post by: Nexus001 on February 07, 2014, 04:36:41 am
Post by: Taffer on February 07, 2014, 09:45:23 am
Love your tileset! Thank you very much!
You're welcome! Happy 'dorfing!'
Post by: Taffer on February 07, 2014, 03:16:47 pm
I read somewhere on 4chan about people wondering how long it'd take me to update. The answer is about 5 minutes or so, as I don't modify the raws in any way and haven't read anything about the graphics file format changing. The initial release will likely only contain the default keybindings, though. If anything in the graphics files needs to change, it'll take me longer, of course.
EDIT: Reuploaded with an extra colour scheme that I've been using, DawnBringer (http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12795). No other changes at all.
(http://i.imgur.com/I4xKFlW.png)
Post by: Seleucian on February 11, 2014, 04:56:03 pm
thanks for the continued updates!
Post by: Njals on February 11, 2014, 07:18:19 pm
I tried different versions of Taffer's tileset and my hero always blinked blue in adventurer mode. AS I recall, "@" is not blinking in vanilla DF. Is it normal behaviour or did I do something wrong?
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2014, 07:42:26 am
Disclaimer: I'm quite new to ASCII tilesets.
I tried different versions of Taffer's tileset and my hero always blinked blue in adventurer mode. AS I recall, "@" is not blinking in vanilla DF. Is it normal behaviour or did I do something wrong?
I confess I don't play Adventurer mode in the current version, but I don't believe it was doing that when I was testing initially. I'm looking into it now. Thanks for letting me know!
EDIT: I believe it may be a bug with the game. Phoebus, Spacefox, and Obsidian have the same problem. If I find a fix, however, I'll update the thread and let you know. Sorry for the inconvenience! If it bothers you, you can do away with the graphics entirely and just stick to the tileset. Set GRAPHICS to 'no' in init.txt.
Post by: Njals on February 12, 2014, 12:28:19 pm
On unrelated note, is there any difference between 20x20 tileset in the first post and the last version http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7767 (except from resolution, obviously)?
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2014, 02:20:59 pm
Looks like party members and enemies are blinking too. Isn't it related to a creature class?
On unrelated note, is there any difference between 20x20 tileset in the first post and the last version http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7767 (except from resolution, obviously)?
I'm honestly not sure what is causing that bug, but I'm reproducing it on other graphic sets so I'm inclined to believe it's a known problem. I'm messaging somebody now to see if there's anything that I can do.
As for the large tilesets, there's quite a few differences. There are no graphics to match the 20x20 tilesets. I should probably update the thread to reiterate that, because they won't work properly if dropped into the current version. They are also based off of an older version of my tileset, so the font isn't as nice and there's a little less polish than there should be.
I haven't updated them yet because when I made them, I used scale2x to size them and it took a few hours to clean them up after, so it was a pain. When midterms are over I'll look into using a better shader and resizing the current set.
Post by: Vherid on February 12, 2014, 02:39:25 pm
Looks like party members and enemies are blinking too. Isn't it related to a creature class?
On unrelated note, is there any difference between 20x20 tileset in the first post and the last version http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7767 (except from resolution, obviously)?
I'm honestly not sure what is causing that bug, but I'm reproducing it on other graphic sets so I'm inclined to believe it's a known problem, and not solvable by myself, although I'm messaging somebody now to see if there's anything that I can do.
As for the large tilesets, there's quite a few differences. There are no graphics to match the 20x20 tilesets. I should probably update the thread to reiterate that, because they won't work properly if dropped into the current version. They are also based off of an older version of my tileset, so the font isn't as nice and there's a little less polish than there should be.
I haven't updated them yet because when I made them, I used scale2x to size them and it took a few hours to clean them up after, so it was a pain. When midterms are over I'll look into using a better shader and resizing the current set.
You shouldn't need to use a shader, that's why it came out so weird, it's a bad idea. Personally I prefer a 2x to look like a 2x, so all you do is nearest neighbor increase the image by 2x, which will create a nice perfect pixel to pixel translation as long as the ratios stay solid like that, IE doing a 1.5x increase might make some oddities.
(http://puu.sh/6Tzty.png)
Bam doubled up.
(http://puu.sh/6TzuE.png)
It's how I double my images.
(http://i.imgur.com/DFAsK4j.png)
As you can see here you would just do the same to the graphicsets to fix those as they show up blurry when the 10x are stretched to 20x.
(http://puu.sh/6TzDr.png)
(http://puu.sh/6TzGs.png)
But it otherwise works perfectly fine. I could 2x everything you have in like 5 minutes.
Post by: fricy on February 12, 2014, 02:43:24 pm
As for the large tilesets, there's quite a few differences. There are no graphics to match the 20x20 tilesets. I should probably update the thread to reiterate that, because they won't work properly if dropped into the current version.
I haven't tested extensively, so what are the effects of this? Will these sprites have lower quality, or should I expect some serious artifacts/ display bugs? I can live with lower quality for the time, but I need the 20x20 tiles, because all macs come with relatively high rez displays, so I need the bigger tiles. Should I use CLA addon until you redraw them? And also: on dffd you say that we should use Taffer 18x18 tilesets. To the best of my knowledge you have 10x10 and 20x20 sets. Which is correct? And CLA is supposed to be 16x16, so again, there's a bit mismatch. Would you kindly shed some light on this to me? Sorry for the noobish questions. :)
Quote
They are also based off of an older version of my tileset, so the font isn't as nice and there's a little less polish than there should be.Looking forward to this!
I haven't updated them yet because when I made them, I used scale2x to size them and it took a few hours to clean them up after, so it was a pain. When midterms are over I'll look into using a better shader and resizing the current set.
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2014, 03:27:31 pm
First of all posting to watch, and letting you know that I included your tileset in Macnewbie, because it looks great! :)
Thanks for the compliment, and for including it!
I haven't tested extensively, so what are the effects of this? Will these sprites have lower quality, or should I expect some serious artifacts/ display bugs? I can live with lower quality for the time, but I need the 20x20 tiles, because all macs come with relatively high rez displays, so I need the bigger tiles. Should I use CLA addon until you redraw them? And also: on dffd you say that we should use Taffer 18x18 tilesets. To the best of my knowledge you have 10x10 and 20x20 sets. Which is correct? And CLA is supposed to be 16x16, so again, there's a bit mismatch. Would you kindly shed some light on this to me? Sorry for the noobish questions. :)
You would have expected blurry graphics. See below, though. I have a 10x10 set, a 20x20 set, and an 18x18 set designed for CLA that's getting old and senile. CLA is actually 18x18, not 16x16. I only recommend using the CLA addon if, well, you use CLA.
Looking forward to this!
You won't be waiting long. Check the new download. Because I didn't use a shader this time, it will look more "pixellated" than before. See Vherid's screenshot above for an example. The diagonal walls came out a little pixellated looking. I started smoothing them, but it clashed with the rest of the graphics set. I'll still go through the set again after mid-terms if people dislike the current double-sized version. I'll update CLA at that time as well, although obviously it won't include the graphics, and I may end up abandoning the diagonals if they're tricky to resize.
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2014, 03:34:25 pm
You shouldn't need to use a shader, that's why it came out so weird, it's a bad idea. Personally I prefer a 2x to look like a 2x, so all you do is nearest neighbor increase the image by 2x, which will create a nice perfect pixel to pixel translation as long as the ratios stay solid like that, IE doing a 1.5x increase might make some oddities.
[snip]
Bam doubled up.
[snip]
It's how I double my images.
[snip]
As you can see here you would just do the same to the graphicsets to fix those as they show up blurry when the 10x are stretched to 20x.
[snip]
But it otherwise works perfectly fine. I could 2x everything you have in like 5 minutes.
Don't I feel stupid. Thanks for the advice! The download is updated accordingly. I'll still smooth things out a little after midterms, but your advice got things updated. Thanks again!
-= Archive of old double-sized tilesets =-
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vherid on February 12, 2014, 03:41:55 pm
Post by: fricy on February 12, 2014, 04:02:25 pm
You won't be waiting long. Check the new download. Because I didn't use a shader this time, it will look more "pixellated" than before. See Vherid's screenshot above for an example. The diagonal walls came out a little pixellated looking. I started smoothing them, but it clashed with the rest of the graphics set. I'll still go through the set again after mid-terms if people dislike the current double-sized version. I'll update CLA at that time as well, although obviously it won't include the graphics, and I may end up abandoning the diagonals if they're tricky to resize.
...../ )
.....' /
---' (_____
......... ((__)
..... _ ((___)
....... -'((__)
--.___((_)
Post by: fricy on February 14, 2014, 12:56:43 pm
FYI the kobold graphics has not been resized, it 's only 10x10.
The other thing, which comes down to personal taste is that I prefer the old ones with the smooth look to the new ones with the jagged lines. :( So I'll be using those for the time as default, and provide the alternatives to the user.
Maybe you have already see this, or maybe you can use this info to help with resizing in the future:
Expect some reasonably-readable 24x and 32x versions when everything's finished. I'll be using Hylian's BRh algorithm, which was well-received with DawnHack. Here's a little example of how well it works:(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/044/c/3/hrbexample_by_dragondeplatino-d76bij7.png)
You see, it's very hit-or-miss but it's incredibly faithful (resizing it back to 16x16 with some algorithms will give you the original image pixel-for-pixel) and gives tiles a nice painterly look. It also works well with my style of heavy-antialiasing and is reasonable at 24x with bicubic resizing.
Post by: Taffer on February 15, 2014, 09:36:38 am
I got some time today to play around with your new double-sized tiles:
FYI the kobold graphics has not been resized, it 's only 10x10.
The other thing, which comes down to personal taste is that I prefer the old ones with the smooth look to the new ones with the jagged lines. :( So I'll be using those for the time as default, and provide the alternatives to the user.
Maybe you have already see this, or maybe you can use this info to help with resizing in the future:
I just fixed the upload. Sorry for that!
As a good portion of my free time is spent emulating, I'm already using the BRh algorithm. I'll likely use it to resize when I have some more free time, as it does a good job of enlarging. It does a better job than scale2x and hqx, at least. I did maintain an archive of the old smoothed out double-size set in the meantime, and I do intend to bring the aesthetic over to the double-sized. It will still take some time, though, and I'm a little short on it presently. I'd want to clean the artifacts up. The text, for example, didn't fare well in the example image.
See personally I like the jaggy/pixelated look. Just keeps the ascii/console/terminal feel to it. But I'd be interested to see how you do it, I've yet to make it look good personally with some of my bigger sets, the over-smoothing has always looked awkward.
I'll probably maintain both double-sized sets in the archive, for the best of both worlds.
I hope the folder structure is working for everybody, as the number of tilesets grows ever larger. (24, after the two double-sized sets are done) Forking something to maintain my own user-friendly "tileset installer" is not something I want to invest the time into maintaining. There doesn't seem to have been any confusion so far, however.
Post by: Vherid on February 25, 2014, 07:37:34 pm
(http://puu.sh/7aARa.png)
(http://puu.sh/7aAQp.png)
(http://puu.sh/7aASm.png)
Post by: Cycle on February 26, 2014, 02:23:37 am
Post by: Taffer on February 26, 2014, 09:19:21 pm
So I applied CLA's BG coloring system to your tiles, it looks nice.
[snip]
Makes things look almost graphical. I'm a little afraid of adding more options to the download. I just noticed your Egyptian mod. I'll have to investigate when I have some more time.
I only use this and CLA. Doesn't take too much from the game and it just looks awesome.
Thanks for the compliment! Hopefully the next update comes soon. Did you see Taffer+CLA on DFFD? I'll be updating it this weekend, likely.
Post by: Sheo on March 11, 2014, 07:23:43 pm
Post by: draeath on March 12, 2014, 05:38:04 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 13, 2014, 09:49:03 pm
Hey there mate! I was wondering, I'm new to the game and, is there any way to install this on the lazy newb pack(The LNP version)? The only file that's missing is d_init.txt, but it is kind of important, so I'm just wondering what I'm doing wrong.
d_init.txt needs to be the default, so install the default ASCII graphics, change the settings as you like them, and then unzip taffer.zip into the Dwarf Fortress 0.34.11 folder. Everything should work as expected. If you want to use it in the GUI, you should be able to copy the ASCII folder in LNP/graphics, rename it Taffer, then overwrite everything inside with the contents of taffer.zip. That should get things working as expected. You'll still need to install the alternates by hand, though. If you use LNP for the keybindings, they're already included in my download.
I apologize for the delayed response!
I love this tileset... very nice work Taffer! Great for folks used to roguelikes who are having a bit of trouble working with rectangular aspect tiles!
Thanks! That's partly the crowd I made it for. I still play Nethack/ADOM.
Post by: lechium on April 02, 2014, 03:16:52 am
Post by: Taffer on April 07, 2014, 06:41:24 pm
I played this game for many years, vanilla and with many different tilesets. In vanilla some things are just so hard to make out. In Pheobus and co. the font is totally messed up. CLA is damn ugly imo. Like you say your tileset is really the best balance. Thanks for sharing your work.
You're welcome. Thanks for enjoying it!
As an aside, despite my glacial progress at the new double-sized tilesets, I expect to have the set otherwise updated very quickly following the next release.
Post by: 0rion on April 14, 2014, 09:38:50 am
The only "bad" things are the beds and cabinets. I would have prefered the original θ and π (I'm not sure it's a pi though).
I had a hard time choosing between yours colors and vanilla's colors too. But I'm used to vanilla's, and it's easier for me to identify which stone is what at the first glance with vanilla's colors, so...
Anyway, great job :D
Post by: Taffer on April 14, 2014, 01:45:54 pm
I was searching for a square tileset close to vanilla and rather small, and I found this one... Great job actually ! It is not so close to vanilla, but anyway, it it so smooth and beautiful and everything... I couldn't simply ignore it.
[snip]
Anyway, great job :D
Thanks for the compliments! How "close" it is depends on what definition you use. Almost every tile is the same unicode character as the default. The font itself changed, and the characters are drawn differently, but the meaning is the same. It could theoretically be reused as a code page for text again. The exceptions were likely the two you mentioned. (Well, and the racial graphics, but that's separate from the tileset itself) It's different aesthetically, though. Thanks again!
[snip]
The only "bad" things are the beds and cabinets. I would have prefered the original θ and π (I'm not sure it's a pi though).
I had a hard time choosing between yours colors and vanilla's colors too. But I'm used to vanilla's, and it's easier for me to identify which stone is what at the first glance with vanilla's colors, so...
[snip]
It's pi. Are these tiles an improvement? I fixed them up for you. Anybody have any comments, objections, etc? Minor update coming at some point. I fixed up the Dawnbringer colours, I'm thinking of these two new tiles, and I'm considering adding in the solid background tilesets that Vherid showed a screenshot of.
Proposed new cabinet/dark fortress:
(http://i.imgur.com/VQRyOkX.png)
Proposed new bed/puddingstone:
(http://i.imgur.com/akQ8ltV.png)
Post by: 0rion on April 14, 2014, 05:16:06 pm
How "close" it is depends on what definition you use. Almost every tile is the same unicode character as the default.Well, I'm a kind of purist. But yes, by "close" I meant "which matchs almost exactly the default tileset but in a square version".
Are these tiles an improvement? I fixed them up for you.The beds are a little odd. Although the first ones are more different than the originals, I prefer these. But for my own use, I'm gonna use these ones :
(http://i.imgbox.com/OpdTB3ru.png)
However the new cabinet is a good compromise between vanilla and its actual meaning. It looks like a tower (or a cabinet with some imagination), and has the same little branch on the lower right like the default character.
I found out that the ² are not actually ², and I have changed them to match those from vanilla (once again that's my personal opinion, I try to keep the original characters).
Thanks to you my fortress :
- is square
- matchs the default tileset pretty well
- is beautiful
:D
Post by: Vherid on April 14, 2014, 06:19:08 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 17, 2014, 03:38:33 pm
I decided against including the solid background. Vherid kindly sent it to me and the credit to the solid background version is both his and CLA. It causes graphical glitches in the text though, which seems to be against the spirit of the set. (It would also bring my tileset count to 32, up from the current 16, but that was less of a concern.) If anybody wants it I can post it. Thanks, Vherid!
The gem tile has also been redrawn, and the heart was fixed up slightly.
In summary, the download is easier to use, I have properly smoothed double-sized versions, and the whole set has been brought in line with the vanilla set. At this point there aren't any tiles left that I have my eye on, for the moment. I'm still not a huge fan of the dwarf soldiers, but every time I redraw them I'm unsatisfied with the result (or they look too similar to the other race's soldiers), so I'm leaving them be.
I considered adding the "depth effect" that so many nice sets seem to have, but decided I didn't like it after all. True depth would be nice, but changing the tile just shows the same amount of information as before, and I rather like the blue sky when I'm playing. It's still easy to change, though. Change the SKY line in d_init.txt. Crazy 8x8s uses "[SKY:250:8:0:0]".
New beds:
(http://i.imgur.com/ow0X40l.png)
Post by: 0rion on April 17, 2014, 04:13:44 pm
Ended up using the style of bed shown below. I think it's a good compromise, personally.
You're right, you're version is far better than mine. Same symbol as vanilla, same style as Taffer :)
In the spirit of bringing things in line more with vanilla, I enabled the intro by default and set the colours to be the default. The alternate colours are still included.
I'm not sure that's a good idea; the previous colours are really good, it's really a pleasure to contemplate. As I said, the vanilla's colours are for those (like me) who absolutely want to stuck to vanilla, but I think most of people would prefer the previous colours (I can be wrong).
And those "²" are exactly the same as the ones I drew for myself, to the nearest pixel :p
I noticed that the init file defines the fullscreen dimensions as full-HD. Maybe it is better to change FULLSCREENX and FULLSCREENX to 0 (instead of 1920x1080) ? For resolutions which are not full-HD ?
I really enjoy your beds now; once again, good job ;)
Post by: Taffer on April 17, 2014, 04:25:07 pm
I'm not sure that's a good idea; the previous colours are really good, it's really a pleasure to contemplate. As I said, the vanilla's colours are for those (like me) who absolutely want to stuck to vanilla, but I think most of people would prefer the previous colours (I can be wrong).
[snip]
I noticed that the init file defines the fullscreen dimensions as full-HD. Maybe it is better to change FULLSCREENX and FULLSCREENX to 0 (instead of 1920x1080) ? For resolutions which are not full-HD ?
Reuploaded as per suggestions above. You're right, my colours aren't that different thematically from the vanilla colours. The FULLSCREEN settings were a remnant of my system, thanks for noticing them. Setting them to 0 results in DF's displaying incorrectly on my system, so I had them defined.
Thanks again! for the compliments!
Also, the screenshots are a little sparse outside of the comparative ones, and not even that great. I intend to have nicer screenshots with the new Dwarf Fortress version, and these will do until then.
Post by: Vherid on April 17, 2014, 11:09:27 pm
Post by: Taffer on April 18, 2014, 02:49:25 pm
Oh I had no idea that was you who emailed me haha, thought it was just some random guy. I like the new changes, very nice.
Apparently there's an e-mail feature on the forum I hadn't been aware of. I was tired, and thought I was sending forum messages. Thanks!
Post by: Taffer on June 02, 2014, 12:09:40 pm
I expect to have the set otherwise updated very quickly following the next release.
Quotes like this are going to bite me in the ass. I'll be gone from June 28 to the first week of August, and will not have access to a computer or smartphone at all. Given his current estimated release of early July, the best I can do is hope he releases early/terribly late. Theoretically, the only file that is likely to change in my set is d_init.txt, so I'll include instructions on the first post/download page on how to replace that file. I'll also put up the raw tilesets along with installation instructions.
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2014, 12:14:12 pm
Quote
the best I can do is hope he releases earlyNo comment. ;)
Post by: Taffer on June 02, 2014, 12:17:34 pm
Files that change are the trees... all the trees.Quotethe best I can do is hope he releases earlyNo comment. ;)
Unlikely, I suppose. ::) The tree changes aren't likely to affect me outside of d_init.txt, as far as I can tell. I don't change any raw files, and all of my "wall tiles" resemble tree trunks at least as much as the default tileset does. (Which is to say, not very much).
Post by: Vherid on June 02, 2014, 12:21:48 pm
With that I can mix your tileset with the cla mock version I did and get a nice looking picture without the text issues:
(http://puu.sh/9c3EM/e2fc62de62.png)
(http://puu.sh/9c3I8/cb719f7206.png)
Post by: Taffer on June 02, 2014, 12:34:45 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.0
With that I can mix your tileset with the cla mock version I did and get a nice looking picture without the text issues:
Seeing that makes me want to add the graphical tiles back in, and put that up as an option. It looks great. (Optional) things I want to do off the top of my head that won't affect the text/map/etc with the new plugin:
- get nice, graphical barrels without making my screw pumps look weird
- have a graphical lever and better staircases again
- weapon/armour racks
- if possible, use the text tileset for wall and river tiles, and then figure out something that'll work for both tree trunks and minecart rails for the graphical set
- finally get nicer floors and stockpile icons (probably a darker floor + with the corners shaded for a nice pattern, and use four dots in a square formation for the stockpile)
- graphical potions/coins
- better "water level 1-7" tiles, so that turning that option on looks nice.
I could go on. I sense my free time spiralling down the drain and I'm really busy this month, so I've tried hard to not think about the "Text will be Text" plugin much. ;)
Post by: CLA on June 04, 2014, 01:24:42 am
Quote
- get nice, graphical barrels without making my screw pumps look weird
- have a graphical lever and better staircases again
- weapon/armour racks
- if possible, use the text tileset for wall and river tiles, and then figure out something that'll work for both tree trunks and minecart rails for the graphical set
- finally get nicer floors and stockpile icons (probably a darker floor + with the corners shaded for a nice pattern, and use four dots in a square formation for the stockpile)
- graphical potions/coins
- better "water level 1-7" tiles, so that turning that option on looks nice.
I thought about it a bit and assuming we have complete control over all tiles I think the easiest would be to organize tilesets like this
- one for text, UI (the frame borders), and ideally interface/status stuff on the map (cursor, W/D in the [D]epot access view, status icons like asleep/injured/insane)
- one for objects (the "main tileset"), on which you use the text tiles to have separate symbols for things like bins/u-d staircases and barrels/screw pumps
- one for all "wall derivatives": walls, engraved walls, tree trunks, minecart tracks; maybe floors, stockpiles, zones. I guess if there's enough space all the plant stuff might be added here as well.
- one for adv mode-, world- and quicktravel-maps
- secondary "main tilesets" when the first one isn't enough
You could add another tileset for workshops, but I always thought it's unnecessary to change them.
I'm a bit afraid the override format could make the init file really big and complex fast though, which would make it hard to maintain if you go all the way. But man am I looking forward to using my original stairs again without bins and the cursor looking like shit.
Post by: Taffer on June 27, 2014, 05:52:30 pm
I thought about it a bit and assuming we have complete control over all tiles I think the easiest would be to organize tilesets like this
- one for text, UI (the frame borders), and ideally interface/status stuff on the map (cursor, W/D in the [D]epot access view, status icons like asleep/injured/insane)
- one for objects (the "main tileset"), on which you use the text tiles to have separate symbols for things like bins/u-d staircases and barrels/screw pumps
- one for all "wall derivatives": walls, engraved walls, tree trunks, minecart tracks; maybe floors, stockpiles, zones. I guess if there's enough space all the plant stuff might be added here as well.
- one for adv mode-, world- and quicktravel-maps
- secondary "main tilesets" when the first one isn't enough
You could add another tileset for workshops, but I always thought it's unnecessary to change them.
I'm a bit afraid the override format could make the init file really big and complex fast though, which would make it hard to maintain if you go all the way. But man am I looking forward to using my original stairs again without bins and the cursor looking like shit.
I'm still tempted to update everything into a nice solid "ASCII" inspired pack reminiscent of an early Ultima game with tinier graphics. I give permission for people to use my pack as the basis for a "Text will be Text" pack, and humbly request that my name go alongside yours in the name if one of my tilesets is the basis. (No such credit necessary if it's only a few tiles, of course.) If nothing emerges I might end up working something out myself.
Post by: Pooky on July 10, 2014, 03:54:56 am
Post by: Rose on July 10, 2014, 04:34:18 am
Post by: Vherid on July 10, 2014, 08:05:09 am
Does Taffer tileset works with DF 2014?
Yep.
Post by: Taffer on August 10, 2014, 01:31:59 pm
There's no reason why it shouldn't, since it's just ascii.
Well the keybindings and the init.txt needed to be changed, but those were just for convenience. I have racial graphics but so far as I can tell they still work. They're still on by default, although having out-of-sight people in adventure mode revert to their letters remains annoying so that may or may not change.
I'm uploading an updated version. I'll be putting up some great screenshots once I get Adventurer mode going for a while. Will likely update soon. Removed support for Fantastic DF as it doesn't appear to be updated for the new version.
Post by: Taffer on August 10, 2014, 06:02:22 pm
The racial graphics were bothering me in Adventure mode so I turned them off by default. I'll set it back if that proves controversial. The limitations were bothering me and I don't want to add DFHack as a requirement.
Post by: Taffer on August 11, 2014, 03:07:48 pm
Post by: Sheo on September 07, 2014, 04:53:15 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.0
With that I can mix your tileset with the cla mock version I did and get a nice looking picture without the text issues:
(http://puu.sh/9c3EM/e2fc62de62.png)
(http://puu.sh/9c3I8/cb719f7206.png)
Hm, how did you mix the tilesets like that? Since I'm pretty sure TwbT is included in the latest LNP, I'm interested in that mix. It looks really good.
Another update. I'm not going to inflate the version number if all I'm doing is a simple update to a new version. In this case I have a new version number because I have new tiles - the 1/4 and 1/2 tiles were adjusted by a little. Hopefully the trees look a little nicer now. I may update them again in the future.
While I'm looking forward with this mix with cla's, I'm gonna run your tileset a bit in my current fortress pure, to check out the changes. Keep up the good work Taffer.
Post by: Taffer on September 09, 2014, 11:07:10 pm
While I'm looking forward with this mix with cla's, I'm gonna run your tileset a bit in my current fortress pure, to check out the changes. Keep up the good work Taffer.
Thank you kindly! Glad you like it. If you can spare the time, I always appreciate screenshots. Let me know if you have any suggestions or problems. I've been a little busy, so I've not played the new version as much as I'd like to.
Post by: Vherid on September 12, 2014, 01:30:17 pm
Hm, how did you mix the tilesets like that? Since I'm pretty sure TwbT is included in the latest LNP, I'm interested in that mix. It looks really good.
I made this to go with it:
(http://i.imgur.com/9WJWSyx.png)
Post by: Naglfar on September 24, 2014, 10:49:24 am
Post by: Rogue Yun on October 21, 2014, 12:14:16 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 21, 2014, 02:19:51 pm
Hello! I started using your tileset to get an understanding of what a good simple tileset feels like. I wanted to ask your permission if I could use similar tiles in my tileset. These tiles would be your sand/water/magma tiles, and my punctuation tiles will be heavily influenced by yours as well.
I hope you like it! By all means, go ahead. You're free to use any of my tiles, although I appreciate a nod in the credits if they're tiles that I drew. The punctuation characters and water tiles are from public domain code pages so no credit is necessary for those characters. A lot of my tileset has been redrawn or edited over time, but I always liked those tiles good enough as they were.
I like your new Simple Mood tileset, by the way. It's a good design direction for simple, tiny graphics. I particularly like the logs, the tree/root/plant tiles, statues, tree leaves, skulls, weapon racks, and marsh tiles. I should have said so in the relevant thread sooner.
I thank you for your work. Your tileset is my favorite.
Apologies for not responding to this sooner. I'm glad you like my tileset. If you have any requests/suggestions, let me know!
Post by: Taffer on October 29, 2014, 04:30:36 pm
More importantly, I redrew the ladder tile. It looks much more like a ladder now, and still resembles the Peseta currency sign. The new ladder is on the right.
Old and busted, new hotness: (https://i.imgur.com/BdIvq2M.png)
Unfortunately, the double-sized version hasn't been updated and is, in fact, a little neglected. Sometime this week I intend to work on fixing it up more.
As always, comments, requests, praise, useful critique, and screenshots are all welcomed and encouraged.
There are a few other symbols lurking in the set that I'm not content with. Fortunately, Dwarf Fortress doesn't use them anyways. Any improvements would not only be pointless, but I have no idea what they'll be used for in the future. The ladder/Peseta sign had been in that category.
Post by: Vherid on October 29, 2014, 04:53:46 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 29, 2014, 05:21:14 pm
Nice I like it
Thanks! I've been playing around with alternate dwarf soldier tiles, but I've never managed to get something I like, so it always stays.
(https://i.imgur.com/9otFbE0.png)
That's probably my 20th attempt in the past year or so.
Post by: Vherid on October 29, 2014, 05:22:40 pm
Nice I like it
Thanks! I've been playing around with alternate dwarf soldier tiles, but I've never managed to get something I like, so it always stays.
(https://i.imgur.com/9otFbE0.png)
That's probably my 20th attempt in the past year or so.
I like the right one more but I like the weird ones.
Post by: HaterSkater on October 29, 2014, 05:24:36 pm
I like the right one more but I like the weird ones.
i TOTALLY second this
Post by: CLA on October 29, 2014, 05:45:10 pm
playing around with [...] soldier tilesOh god, don't remind me. Probably the most fun and the most frustrating part of graphic sets for me.
I went through pages and pages of military helmet references from the beginning of classical antiquity to late middle ages, and played around until I had something recognizable.
Osprey books and museum catalogs/photos are your new best friends.
Post by: Vherid on October 29, 2014, 05:48:13 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 12:47:00 pm
I'm still not completely content with the double-sized versions. If people prefer this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg5003930#msg5003930) look instead I can switch over to it. It wouldn't be as smooth looking, but it would be far easier for me to update it and some may prefer the aesthetic. Even using the xbrz scaling algorithm and fixing it up by hand, I'm still not terribly pleased with the look. Still, I've seen screenshots of people using it here and there on reddit and haven't had any complaints so far.
Post by: Vherid on October 31, 2014, 12:54:29 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 01:24:47 pm
I would love if you had an alternative download from dropbox or something, DFFD is broken as fuck for me all the time.
Here's (https://github.com/nc-z/taffer) a mirror. I've never had any problems with DFFD, personally.
Post by: Vherid on October 31, 2014, 01:30:58 pm
I would love if you had an alternative download from dropbox or something, DFFD is broken as fuck for me all the time.
Here's (https://github.com/nc-z/taffer) a mirror. I've never had any problems with DFFD, personally.
It's just straight up DNS blocked here or something, it will never load in chrome, it will load SOMETIMES in firefox. It's also slow as hell, which isn't a problem for tilesets because they're small files, but when people only upload huge mods to dffd, holy shit that drives me nuts.
Post by: Lac on October 31, 2014, 03:53:15 pm
It's just straight up DNS blocked here or something, it will never load in chrome, it will load SOMETIMES in firefox.I've found of late that Norton Antivirus is blocking the dffd site for me in Chrome (although there is a continue anyway option).
This report indicates a drive-by attack was found on it once:
http://safeweb.norton.com/report/show?url=http:%2F%2Fdffd.wimbli.com%2Ffile.php%3Fid=7767&product=other&version=21.6.0.32&layout=Retail&lang=0901&source=toolbar
So it has got itself on to at least one blacklist.
Post by: Max™ on October 31, 2014, 10:23:38 pm
Post by: HaterSkater on October 31, 2014, 10:55:27 pm
Ok wait, where did you learn how to upscale things without them being fugly like I make them, is there a guide somewhere I missed? I had a horrible time trying to upscale parts of the walls from one of the 20x tilesets I like to work with the 24x I use, do you use photoshop or GIMP for it?If that's a question about Taffer's tileset, then the answer is that he uses hqx or similar algorithm, that allows to upscale pixelart, but work only on specific scale factors. So, you can upscale 10px tileset two times to 20px with hq2x, but if you want to make 16px out of 10, all you can to do here is to develop your own algorithm. For example, Rinick here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122400.0) presented a simple tool to downscale 18px tileset to 16px
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 10:59:20 pm
Ok wait, where did you learn how to upscale things without them being fugly like I make them, is there a guide somewhere I missed? I had a horrible time trying to upscale parts of the walls from one of the 20x tilesets I like to work with the 24x I use, do you use photoshop or GIMP for it?
Link (http://hqmame.sourceforge.net/ScalerTest.zip). Even with this I needed to fix it up a lot, and it still ends imperfect. As a side note, I find Krita to be far superior to GIMP.
If that's a question about Taffer's tileset, then the answer is that he uses hqx or similar algorithm, that allows to upscale pixelart, but work only on specific scale factors.
I prefer xBRZ. I recommend against a non-integer scaling algorithm at these small sizes, but to each their own.
Post by: Max™ on October 31, 2014, 11:19:02 pm
Didn't think to check the emulator folks but yeah that makes sense, though it's funny I'd probably have to grab WINE to use that scaler program... funny since WINE Is Not an Emulator, and all.
I didn't even think to check what sort of scaling algorithms were available in GIMP though, I'll have to poke around and see what the options are in there, most of my... I'm not gonna call it work because I don't do the art like ya'll do, let's call it hacking stuff together... is just getting it lined up layer by layer and then direct replacement, but I'm on a 1920x1080 monitor so I'm mostly just trying to pick and choose my favorite stuff from the existing 24x24 tilesets, being able to size stuff up without it looking all degraded or overly jagged would be amazing.
Huh, while investigating krita and gimp comparisons I noticed this guy (http://www.davidrevoy.com/article218/guide-my-hardware-and-software-for-digital-painting) who does stuff with both, and yeah... I love artists, and yes, you folks making your prettied up ascii or fleshed out full on twbt packages are in that category, but that isn't where my talents lie.
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 11:28:35 pm
Mostly looks like Krita is better suited for tablet/stylus type stuff I take it?
I don't own a tablet, only a Windows desktop and various OpenBSD netbooks. Krita works well on both with or without my Wacom for pretty much anything I need it for, from general art to resizing. I don't touch up photographs, but it has also worked well for resizing/colouring them. I have nothing but praise for Krita.
You won't find decent pixel scalers built-in for either Krita or GIMP, and very likely not even in Photoshop. What makes for a good pixel art scaler is very different than what makes for a good image scaler. The simplest utility I've found for it was the earlier link I sent.
Post by: Max™ on October 31, 2014, 11:29:32 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 11:32:03 pm
Ahhhh, see, that is probably the question I should ask, what makes a good pixel scaler, huh?
I'm not much of an expert, but the very low resolution makes it a challenge to write them and they solve different problems. I should point out that by definition, upscaled pixel art isn't pixel art anymore, and redrawing will always be better. I haven't done so because I play Dwarf Fortress rarely as it is, and only use the double-sized versions when testing them.
Post by: Max™ on October 31, 2014, 11:37:14 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 31, 2014, 11:46:15 pm
Thanks, there goes my intent to do something with my fort tonight...
Good luck with the upscaling/redrawing!
Post by: Max™ on November 01, 2014, 12:21:48 am
Post by: Taffer on November 19, 2014, 11:28:22 pm
For posterity's sake in case you're waiting impatiently on a new version, simply delete init.txt and d_init.txt in my archive, then change the tileset references to taffer.png in the new version's init.txt. If you want the nicer sky from d_init.txt back, replace the SKY line with [SKY:250:0:0:1]. If you want the nicer pillars and trees again, find and replace 'O' with 255 in d_init.txt. This is only necessary if those files have changed in the new version (or if you're uncertain if they have been). If you're comfortable on the command line, Windows provides the 'fc' command to compare files for differences.
Don't use the alternate interface.txt (the keybindings) in a new version unless you've confirmed that interface.txt hasn't changed (via fc, diff, or otherwise). Do not trust file changes.txt to list every changed file.
If the changelog mentions significant changes to the graphics or colors (unlikely), or new/changed jobs for the graphics files (possible), more work will be required. If it's the latter, just disable graphics and you'll be fine.
Post by: draeath on November 25, 2014, 01:39:11 am
1. It's still my favorite set. Period.
2. "Hey! Who's taffin' about, there! Come out!"
Post by: palu on November 25, 2014, 12:00:27 pm
Post by: Taffer on November 25, 2014, 03:23:56 pm
Taffer, I wanted to say thank you for maintaining this. Two reasons:
1. It's still my favorite set. Period.
2. "Hey! Who's taffin' about, there! Come out!"
Thank you kindly.
Quote from: thicko guard
I warn you...my skills of detection are at their PEAK! hic!
What's up with the new military faces? What are they supposed to be? I liked the old ones better. still my favorite ASCII tileset though.I was never terribly fond of them, truthfully. The old military face was originally inspired by Cheepicus's set (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Cheepicus_12x12.png). It didn't really bother me much until I revamped the soldier racial graphics. I posted this earlier:
I've been playing around with alternate dwarf soldier tiles, but I've never managed to get something I like, so it always stays.
(https://i.imgur.com/9otFbE0.png)
That's probably my 20th attempt in the past year or so.
It's the dwarf tile with a visor over its face. Unfortunately, I only have 10x10 pixels to work with. 8x9 pixels, actually, in this case, and of course the outline takes another two pixels from the width and height, so unless I make dwarven heads fatter I get less than 6x7 pixels of canvas. It's hard to get detailed with that little to work with. The "visor" themed tiles were already in use in my set for elf and human soldiers, so the new tile actually matches them better. They were inspired by Vherid's work. Every attempt I made (and I worked at it for a while) to draw a helmet instead of just the detached visor ended up looking either silly or like what I already had, and I needed some variation for the other races in any case.
I'm sorry you don't like the new tile! I hope that's a satisfactory explanation regarding the soldier graphics. I'm already up to 16 different tilesets to maintain, unfortunately, and the new tile seemed well received otherwise, so I think I'll stick with the current look. Even with the racial graphics, however, my set doesn't depend on RAW changes or anything, so it should be quite simple to get the older version up and running in Dwarf Fortress, or to copy and paste the old soldier tile into your preferred variant of my tileset. (Don't forget to fix the dwarf racial graphics, if you use them).
Post by: palu on November 25, 2014, 04:37:36 pm
Post by: Taffer on November 26, 2014, 10:57:18 am
That's fine, it's not that bad. What was wrong with the old tile?
I always thought it looked like an odd wooden voodoo mask (or a Skyrim Dragon Priest mask) more than a dwarf wearing a helmet. The only comment I received about it until now was that it looked like a robot. I may yet have a change of heart. I can be fickle about small things in my tileset.
Post by: Rogue Yun on November 26, 2014, 11:51:00 am
I can be fickle about small things in my tileset.
Me too! But that also might be one of the reason's your tileset is so good :D
Post by: palu on November 28, 2014, 01:56:20 pm
Your tileset is still awesome though. Thank you very much for all the work you've done.
Post by: Taffer on December 04, 2014, 04:04:10 pm
The new one looks more like a strange mask. The old one was perfect. Ah well, if I really want it I can edit it myself.
Your tileset is still awesome though. Thank you very much for all the work you've done.
I have been trying to fix this up.
Rejected (and current) dwarf soldier designs: (https://i.imgur.com/GiyxpNx.png)
Possible new dwarf designs: (https://i.imgur.com/xsJRHQU.png) Second from the left is a soldier tile.
At any rate, I'm in no rush. I'm not making any change to things for a while. I want to gather feedback on this before proceeding any further, as I'd rather end up at a solution that everybody thinks is an improvement.
Post by: Rogue Yun on December 04, 2014, 04:06:39 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 04, 2014, 04:08:44 pm
I kinda' like #6 from the left :D I'd give #8 a close second.
Thanks for the feedback! Good job at responding, you managed to get in before I finished editing up my post (a bad habit of mine).
The new dwarf designs would definitely leave more room for awesome viking helmet spikes, like #6 from the left.
Post by: Taffer on December 04, 2014, 04:44:28 pm
Old and new soldier designs in both variations, with their current iterations beside them: (https://i.imgur.com/M05TStV.png) (https://i.imgur.com/9otFbE0.png)
Post by: palu on December 04, 2014, 08:30:01 pm
#7 here looks great, with #6 as my second. Why not make a poll?The new one looks more like a strange mask. The old one was perfect. Ah well, if I really want it I can edit it myself.
Your tileset is still awesome though. Thank you very much for all the work you've done.
I have been trying to fix this up.
Rejected (and current) dwarf soldier designs: (https://i.imgur.com/GiyxpNx.png)
Possible new dwarf designs: (https://i.imgur.com/xsJRHQU.png) Second from the left is a soldier tile.
At any rate, I'm in no rush. I'm not making any change to things for a while. I want to gather feedback on this before proceeding any further, as I'd rather end up at a solution that everybody thinks is an improvement.
Post by: Vherid on December 04, 2014, 09:23:13 pm
The new one looks more like a strange mask. The old one was perfect. Ah well, if I really want it I can edit it myself.
Your tileset is still awesome though. Thank you very much for all the work you've done.
I have been trying to fix this up.
Rejected (and current) dwarf soldier designs: (https://i.imgur.com/GiyxpNx.png)
Possible new dwarf designs: (https://i.imgur.com/xsJRHQU.png) Second from the left is a soldier tile.
At any rate, I'm in no rush. I'm not making any change to things for a while. I want to gather feedback on this before proceeding any further, as I'd rather end up at a solution that everybody thinks is an improvement.
See it's funny because I did the opposite. I hated the previous one and I would edit it into one of my more weird ones.
I like 1/2 as the ones that currently stand now. I did not like 3. 4 is a bit cluttered, 5 looks kind of interesting. 6 Looks like a miner's face. 8 Looks like cyborg ninja from MGS, while 7 looks like a winged mix of that.
In the double tiers, 1 looks a little mishapen. I like the 2, but the top one seems too short like only a mask, and the bottom one looks 3d in an odd way. 3rd column 2nd one is cute. 4th column not a fan.
In your next set, same thing for column 1 again, not a fan of 2, 3 is interesting, 4 is also interesting.
Post by: Taffer on December 04, 2014, 11:11:40 pm
See it's funny because I did the opposite. I hated the previous one and I would edit it into one of my more weird ones.
I like 1/2 as the ones that currently stand now. I did not like 3. 4 is a bit cluttered, 5 looks kind of interesting. 6 Looks like a miner's face. 8 Looks like cyborg ninja from MGS, while 7 looks like a winged mix of that.
In the double tiers, 1 looks a little mishapen. I like the 2, but the top one seems too short like only a mask, and the bottom one looks 3d in an odd way. 3rd column 2nd one is cute. 4th column not a fan.
In your next set, same thing for column 1 again, not a fan of 2, 3 is interesting, 4 is also interesting.
Thank you for the detailed analysis! I'll sit on it for a while. I don't really want to go back to the old one: I dislike it. Thank you again!
#7 here looks great, with #6 as my second. Why not make a poll?
I doubt I'll get enough feedback for a poll to be worth it, and I doubt I'll get a consensus strong enough. I'll patiently collect feedback for a while. I like things as they are already, anyways. Thanks for your thoughts!
Post by: Ucarty on December 07, 2014, 02:53:51 pm
I use this or CLA. After getting past it being ASCII I've never been able to go back to the image / icon tilesets.
Add to that the aweome colors, and this easily makes for my favorite pick.
I've played for a couple years, I've used many tilesets, congratulations on making the one I consider my favorite.
Thanks.
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2014, 04:02:19 pm
I just wanted to drop in and say this tileset is amazing!
I use this or CLA. After getting past it being ASCII I've never been able to go back to the image / icon tilesets.
Add to that the aweome colors, and this easily makes for my favorite pick.
I've played for a couple years, I've used many tilesets, congratulations on making the one I consider my favorite.
Thanks.
I'm happy that you like it. You're one of the first to compliment the colour schemes. I appreciate it; I worked hard on the Dawnbringer and the Taffer colours. I generally leave colour schemes to Vherid, but I wanted some nice defaults of my own included. I still love Tocky's colours.
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2014, 06:49:11 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/zlLHxox.png)
In an unrelated note: I cleaned up the description and the previews. More work will be done towards getting some nice cover screenshots up after I've had time to play with the upcoming version. (I've been hoping for automated job selection for years now!)
Post by: Vherid on December 07, 2014, 07:03:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/zlLHxox.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1UtsY0uZVk
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2014, 07:07:02 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/zlLHxox.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1UtsY0uZVk
Thanks for the laugh, and for the criticism. Better?
(https://i.imgur.com/r2i3rda.png)
Post by: Vherid on December 07, 2014, 07:08:40 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/zlLHxox.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1UtsY0uZVk
Thanks for the laugh, and the criticism. Better?
(https://i.imgur.com/r2i3rda.png)
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just the first thing that comes to mind. That one is a bit weird. It looks both cool, and funny at the same time depending on how you see the eyes. I can see the little white dot eyes and it looks kinda cool, but I can also see the black dots as the eyes and then it looks silly.
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2014, 07:17:04 pm
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just the first thing that comes to mind. That one is a bit weird. It looks both cool, and funny at the same time depending on how you see the eyes. I can see the little white dot eyes and it looks kinda cool, but I can also see the black dots as the eyes and then it looks silly.
Blatantly spamming my own thread with more soldier tiles. I think I'm on to a tile I like, however.
(https://i.imgur.com/DaxQZO6.png)
Post by: Vherid on December 07, 2014, 07:18:44 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/DaxQZO6.png)
Now that is interesting. It looks like he's wearing a skull helm on his upper head and he has this sinister look in his eyes, especially the red guy.
What else would be the purpose of your thread if not to talk about your own work?
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2014, 07:21:39 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/DaxQZO6.png)
Now that is interesting. It looks like he's wearing a skull helm on his upper head and he has this sinister look in his eyes, especially the red guy.
What else would be the purpose of your thread if not to talk about your own work?
A fair point. Thanks again! I'm really liking this new tile.
(https://i.imgur.com/DmbPYbu.png)
An update will be made in a few days unless the new soldier tile proves controversial.
Post by: CowThing on December 08, 2014, 09:31:26 am
Post by: HaterSkater on December 08, 2014, 10:03:55 am
But IMO, visor-themed warrior tiles were better than dwarves-with-skulls, being some kind of Taffer™ trademark. Anyway, choice is yours, since i'm playing mainly with Duerer, for obvious reason :)
Post by: Ucarty on December 08, 2014, 10:49:57 am
(https://i.imgur.com/DaxQZO6.png)
Looks good! I must admit I'm a bigger fan of the helmets the way CLA has them, simply because they feel more believable to me for all the (bone/wood/metal) materials they can be made of.
Regardless, it feels a lot better than the previous soldier tile, to be honest I didn't like that one, and definitely like this one. Your tileset though! Let's not forget that. (and needless to say the pixel work looks sharp as ever)
About the colors, I totally forgot about tocky! I can't find the colour set anymore either, just really liked the way your colors look now but I recall they were a lot whiter / colder toned. Less soft red/brown, which my whole system is themed, so yea, I like what you did with them ^^
(I need to try some more of Vherid's great color sets see if there's something like tocky in there.. if I ever get tired of this lovely pack that is ;] )
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2014, 11:39:28 am
(https://i.imgur.com/DaxQZO6.png)About the colors, I totally forgot about tocky! I can't find the colour set anymore either, just really liked the way your colors look now but I recall they were a lot whiter / colder toned. Less soft red/brown, which my whole system is themed, so yea, I like what you did with them ^^
(I need to try some more of Vherid's great color sets see if there's something like tocky in there.. if I ever get tired of this lovely pack that is ;] )
Thanks for the feedback!
Tocky's colours are included in my download in the alternates folder, so you already have them. The original colours are located here (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Df_tock10_1.PNG). My inspiration originally was redrawing tiles from Tocky's tileset that I disliked, but I've since redone almost all of it, including both fonts. I suspect Vherid had similar inspiration, because several of Vherid's colour schemes resemble Tocky's. I still spend most of my time playing with Tocky's colours, even after years of use.
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2014, 11:54:22 am
A new challenger enters the ring!
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
Post by: CowThing on December 08, 2014, 12:02:47 pm
Having too much fun making soldier tiles not to share more, and I'm overstaying my welcome in regards to feedback. Thank you Vherid, CowThing, HaterSkater, palu, Rogue Yun, and Ucarty! I'll make up my mind soon(ish).
A new challenger enters the ring!
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
I love it! I thought of the bonemold helmet as soon as I saw it. I like it more than the skull helmet.
Post by: HaterSkater on December 08, 2014, 12:18:07 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/8zifis.png)
Hi
Post by: Rogue Yun on December 08, 2014, 12:20:28 pm
Keep it simple and clean.
To me, that is why I like your tileset so much.
Post by: Taffer on December 08, 2014, 12:21:57 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/8zifis.png)
Hi
Apparently you thought of this first. It's been a while since I played with your set (and I rarely bother with military lately), so I'd forgotten how your soldier tile looked. If I do end up using my tile I'll add your name to the credits, unless you'd rather not have me use it. Apologies!
Post by: Vherid on December 08, 2014, 12:35:06 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/8zifis.png)
Hi
Apparently you thought of this first. It's been a while since I played with your set (and I rarely bother with military lately), so I'd forgotten how your soldier tile looked. If I do end up using my tile I'll add your name to the credits, unless you'd rather not have me use it. Apologies!
They're not "that" similar.
That soldier icon is weird though, personally I'm not a fan of it. Kinda looks like someone made a mother robot.
Post by: fricy on December 08, 2014, 01:36:16 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
Spoiler: Skyrim? Nonono. (click to show/hide)
Post by: HaterSkater on December 08, 2014, 01:37:14 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
Skyrim (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-icon-armor-Bonemold_Helmet.png), meet Dwarf Fortress. You two should get along well.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/8zifis.png)
Hi
Apparently you thought of this first. It's been a while since I played with your set (and I rarely bother with military lately), so I'd forgotten how your soldier tile looked. If I do end up using my tile I'll add your name to the credits, unless you'd rather not have me use it. Apologies!
I didn't mean you cannot use it, just noticed that they look similar :)
Use it, it looks cool. And you don't have to credit me for a single tile, especially if you took it from skyrim
Post by: palu on December 08, 2014, 05:56:13 pm
Other than that, the skull ones vary from cool to weird, and the Skyrim one looks kinda like a squid.
Post by: Ucarty on December 09, 2014, 02:42:24 am
A new challenger enters the ring!
(https://i.imgur.com/fxGOA5m.png)
I like it! Like I said, these clear helmet/visor deal icons are my thing. Though.. I like the bone one more in this case! I guess it's because it still shows the dwarfish beard :]
Post by: Max™ on December 09, 2014, 09:14:33 am
*also, starts the arch handshake with Ucarty, but will need to sign his key and check a few dependencies before it completes*
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 01:50:16 am
- I went with a visor approach after all for the soldier tile, after some thought. The more complex soldier tiles didn't fit into the rest of the set very well.
- Dwarves are now smaller than humans in pixel-size. This seems proper to me. They are dwarves after all. They're also "gender-neutral" now, in that they lost their beards, but suddenly look much happier. This look is similar to how they look in curses_640x300, included in the vanilla game.
- The designation tile has regained Tocky's border. It's stippled, so it looks nice. This makes some things look more blocky, but in exchange, it's much nicer to designate mining as you can count the squares.
- Realizing that these changes might be controversial, there's now a "oneshots" folder undoing all of the above. The full breadth of tilesets aren't supported, of course, but I take requests. By default, four different options for dwarven soldiers are included in the "oneshots" folder, and a version of the tileset without the "designation borders".
- Root/branch tiles are improved a little.
- The number sign (#) is improved a little.
- Nicer sky setting in d_init.txt.
- Dropped support for custom shaded double-sized tilesets. I never actually finished these to the best of my ability to begin with -- there were too many small issues with them here and there, and I never had enough motivation to fix them. I can reupload the old ones somewhere if need be. Double-sized versions are included that feature simple linear scaling. This isn't a bad effect -- just different. I suspect it might be preferable, however, given the issues with the old ones.
- Tocky colours are the default again, and I have a much nicer preview image.
As always, feel free to leave screenshots, criticism, requests, comments, etc. I'm open to changing things.
Post by: Vherid on December 10, 2014, 04:14:50 am
Post by: Rogue Yun on December 10, 2014, 05:27:39 am
(http://i.imgur.com/o4hcaUJ.png)
I know what it is like working in a small area. I imagine that searching for new and different perspectives and references to look at is no easy task . This is all that this is, just a new perspective that might help you either a.) Feel better about how good your art is in comparison to your peers :D and/or b.) Give you a different way to look at things. If you manage to find any positive thing you can take away from this, I offer it freely and in good will. I am very much an admirer.
*edited image host*
Post by: Rose on December 10, 2014, 10:50:49 am
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 12:15:56 pm
Looking good
Glad you like it. I've been thinking of making the changes to the dwarves and the designation tiles for a long time now, but I'm generally hesitant to make changes that I think people might dislike. I do much prefer the look of my set now, though.
I agree whole heartedly with what you did. It looks like it fits your tileset perfectly, so don't ask me why I felt possessed to try do the example that you see below, because I don't know... By no means is this supposed to be anything special or unique. It isn't a suggestion for anything I think you need to change because I think yours looks great. I just had a desire to see if I could design something similar to yours but with faces filled in instead of hollow. I came up with the following result.
(http://i.imgur.com/o4hcaUJ.png)
I know what it is like working in a small area. I imagine that searching for new and different perspectives and references to look at is no easy task . This is all that this is, just a new perspective that might help you either a.) Feel better about how good your art is in comparison to your peers :D and/or b.) Give you a different way to look at things. If you manage to find any positive thing you can take away from this, I offer it freely and in good will. I am very much an admirer.
*edited image host*
I gave up on "filled in" faces a while ago. Interesting alternate designs! Godlysockpuppet posted some alternate racial graphics in the Mastwork forum a bit a while ago (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=127418), if you're curious to see somebody else's take on my graphics.
Thank you kindly for the praise. Keep up the good work on your own tilesets.
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 12:51:53 pm
These are the differences on the "less visible" changed tiles. The new tiles are on the left, the old ones are on the right. As always lately, the difference is only a few pixels.
(https://i.imgur.com/msYJKTG.png)
The '1/2' tile doesn't appear in the game at all, unless the wiki is wrong. I fixed it up all the same.
The '1/4' tile was too "small" before. It's always used as a sort of branch or root in the game. Even roc nests are, I presume, made out of branches. Making the slash longer helps fill out those tiles more and make them look more like branches. Incidentally, if there's any tile in the tileset where I'd want to break with my habit of making "improved default tiles" its here, as there's no need for this to be a fraction. Still, I do like how it looks now, so there's no point in breaking with tradition.
The '#' tile was connected to the left and right edges previously. Now it isn't. This made anything in the game that used these in a grid tile oddly, because the grates would be connected horizontally but not vertically. You can see this easily in the bottom-right corner of the combat arena, down a few levels.
The "new sky" is visible in a screenshot below:
(https://i.imgur.com/e2YUDLD.png)
Compare with the "old sky" below:
(https://i.imgur.com/SgQ9p6j.png)
It gives a much nicer "illusion of depth". I didn't invent this trick. My current setting ([SKY:250:8:0:0]) was taken from Crazy 8x8, but it didn't originate there, either. The old setting is still there in d_init.txt, so it's easy to change it back. (Or you can just not copy over my d_init.txt).
Finally, because the new changes were indeed a little controversial (to at least one person), I'll explain them.
Dwarf tiles with beards had been bothering me, and I'd been making similar changes to my own tilesets. Dwarven women don't have beards, after all. I hadn't included this change in my main tileset because I felt people would miss the old tiles. I compromised by making the "oneshots" folder, and I can take reasonable requests for new graphics or tilesets.
The "designation tile" grid, for lack of a better term, does make things look "blockier" in some cases. The old solid colour makes it really hard to see at a glance whether a room I've laid out to mine is 8x2 or 7x2, however, and my previous solution was always just to count them myself by hitting the direction keys. This is a little silly, because with a grid you can just count them visually off of the screen.
Hopefully that explains the changes! The same person mentioned a "new direction" for my tileset, but this whole update only changes 6 tiles -- and half of those by only 4 pixels each. There's no "new direction", and I'm not likely to make any more changes for a while.
Post by: Vherid on December 10, 2014, 01:33:01 pm
Post by: HaterSkater on December 10, 2014, 02:03:41 pm
The "new sky" is visible in a screenshot belowThere was a problem in my tileset, that forced me to change SKY plainly to [0:0:0:0] — indeed, dark-grey-250 points help you to measure space easily, but there is a lot of situations in this game, when a tile one level below uses same colour. That means there is no way to tell, is this grey tile on a level below, or simply empty space.
It gives a much nicer "illusion of depth"
Oh, also, [HATERSKATER_SURELY_IS_A_CRITICASTER:TRUE]: Letters in Serif tilesets coloured differently: all letters except B, I and T have colour 253,253,253. And what is more important, 10 dwarves drawn with Sans died to reveal horrifying truth: 0 is O and caskets are pillars ;D
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2hrookz.png)
And. Good work! ;)
Post by: CowThing on December 10, 2014, 02:23:48 pm
Also the new picture in the opening post looks good.
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 02:36:47 pm
The "new sky" is visible in a screenshot belowThere was a problem in my tileset, that forced me to change SKY plainly to [0:0:0:0] — indeed, dark-grey-250 points help you to measure space easily, but there is a lot of situations in this game, when a tile one level below uses same colour. That means there is no way to tell, is this grey tile on a level below, or simply empty space.
It gives a much nicer "illusion of depth"
Oh, also, [HATERSKATER_SURELY_IS_A_CRITICASTER:TRUE]: Letters in Serif tilesets coloured differently: all letters except B, I and T have colour 253,253,253. And what is more important, 10 dwarves drawn with Sans died to reveal horrifying truth: 0 is O and caskets are pillars ;D
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2hrookz.png)
And. Good work! ;)
Thank you for catching those issues! Is it obvious that I never play with the sans font? That issue is fixed here (but not uploaded yet) as is the entirely unnoticeable #fdfdfd/#ffffff colour difference.
Somebody on Reddit suggested that I sacrifice nice foreheads for the dwarves in exchange for the mouth not touching the chin. (Like here (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/2/27/Potash_10x10.png)). I'm actually not sure that this is an upgrade, as that fellow looks awfully "square-headed", and the eyes are a little high for me there. Overall, the changes went over better than I expected, which pleases me.
tl;dr: Minor issues fixed or being flagged as 'wontfix'. I'll upload a changed version shortly.
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 02:43:12 pm
I like the changes you've made. I was a bit skeptical about how the designation tile would look with a border. But it actually looks very nice, it's subtle enough that it's not distracting, and still useful. (I think I'll try a similar border in my tileset.)
Also the new picture in the opening post looks good.
Thanks! It took me a while to come around to it. (As evidence, the border was one of the first things I dropped in Tocky's tileset, and it's been years since then without it). I suddenly hit upon the idea of stippling, which I think is a good compromise. It makes fortress planning much nicer, I think.
I wanted to condense information better in the opening post. I'm glad I did a reasonable job. It still needs improving, of course, but I'll leave it up for now.
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2014, 04:24:02 pm
- Changed SKY to [0:0:0:0] to avoid z-level confusion
- Sans serif '0' and 'O' are now diffentiated
- Very minor colour corrections to all tilesets (#fdfdfd to #ffffff)
The new SKY setting:
(https://i.imgur.com/awXedZg.png)
Post by: Taffer on December 18, 2014, 06:24:53 pm
EDIT: Automining gem clusters, f**k yeah! The mining changes don't undo the work I did on the stippled border either, which is nice. (I was worried that mining designations would always display their priority number, instead of only while designating).
Post by: Taffer on December 21, 2014, 02:28:23 pm
Just a quality of life change that I thought people might appreciate. I much prefer this to the vanilla keybindings. It's not been made the default though, so you will need to copy it over from the alternates folder.
Incidentally, I also cleaned up my description even more. It's probably the least verbose description I've ever had for my tilesets. The preview image shows off the alternate fonts, walls, colours, and racial graphics anyways, so there was little need to keep things long-winded.
EDIT: DF was updated at the same time, and I didn't notice until immediately after. Luckily, no changes are required.
SECOND EDIT: I changed my mind on the SKY setting and changed it back to [SKY:250:8:0:0]. HaterSkater's point about z-level confusion is a valid one, but the game already has this identical effect underground. The small visual discrepancy between surface and underground bothered me, and I liked the look of the dots better anyways. I ended up playing Dwarf Fortress most of the day, in case it wasn't obvious.
Post by: deepfield on December 24, 2014, 10:39:26 pm
Will this work with 0.40.23?
EDIT: Yep!
Post by: Taffer on December 25, 2014, 01:36:28 am
I hate to be "that guy" but.....
Will this work with 0.40.23?
EDIT: Yep!
It will indeed work with 0.40.23 - I just updated the version number after confirming that neither init.txt, d_init.txt, nor interface.txt changed in the new version.
Happy holidays!
Post by: Taffer on February 11, 2015, 10:39:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've been noticing my double-sized sets used more and more, so hopefully my existing 20x20 roughly upscaled variants are being received well.
Post by: DragonDePlatino on February 12, 2015, 11:42:11 pm
Anyways, your tileset is looking pretty nice, though I can't help but think the new letters don't match each other very well. If you look at just about any font (even the one I'm typing in right now), you'll notice a lot of letters share a lot of similarities. They all have the same horizontal line thickness, and all of the lowercase letters are of matching height. This is absent in your lowercase letters, so you should probably work to make them a little more uniform.
Post by: CLA on February 13, 2015, 10:12:32 am
Art Deco Tileset
That's really nice.
I've been working on an art deco tileset too for a while. The fonts "Paulistana deco" and "decotech" are the ones I used as template, though in 18x18 it's not too easy to get the font look good. Especially the lower case letters and accented capital letters have been a headache.
Post by: rumpel on March 30, 2015, 06:16:55 am
Post by: Taffer on March 30, 2015, 04:27:21 pm
So this is basically all the vanilla ASCII symbols but redrawn? I'm going to give it a sure shot. I really love the vanilla ASCII but sometimes, especially when playing for a longer time it's a bit stressful for the eyes, but this looks like it might help!
Yes. All of my tilesets are very close to the default game in style. They could theoretically be used again as code pages without any modification. Be sure to check out the different included colour schemes, and let me know what you think! It presently defaults to Tocky's colours, but I'm thinking about making either the vanilla colours or my own, bright colours the default.
Post by: rumpel on April 01, 2015, 07:33:39 am
Post by: Ucarty on June 14, 2015, 06:30:20 pm
Just letting you know your work is still being enjoyed.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on June 15, 2015, 05:58:43 am
Kept it as my default (with vanilla colours) while trying the new gemset Dorfs recently which was fun.
Post by: Taffer on June 16, 2015, 10:47:42 pm
Still using this. Simply the best for me. Really easy on the eyes. Great font. Great details.
Just letting you know your work is still being enjoyed.
Thank you for your kind words. I hope you found the oneshots folder, as you'd stated that you enjoyed dwarves with beards. It's nice to see people still use it. I was wondering if it'd be lost in the rush to TWBT. I'd update it if I felt any need to, but after 23 (public) revisions, I'm fresh out of things to modify. I wouldn't mind seeing the DF Starter Pack or something include it as a TWBT font option, though.
Another pointless post here just to say that I too love this set. Playing in 20x20 with the 'taffer' colour scheme as others are too dark for my monitor (or perhaps my old eyes).
Kept it as my default (with vanilla colours) while trying the new gemset Dorfs recently which was fun.
There aren't any pointless posts here, and I always appreciate them. I wish I could offer you a version that worked with GemSet! I started working on one, but I just don't have the time or motivation to start a new tileset. I imagine the taffer colour scheme looks good with DragonDePlatino's sprites.
Post by: a smiling bearded cretin on July 05, 2015, 12:44:10 pm
Post by: Taffer on July 14, 2015, 09:12:56 pm
Thank you for everything you've put into this. This is a beautiful tileset.
Thank you for taking the time to thank me! I'm glad that you like it.
Post by: SMASH! on July 19, 2015, 03:06:08 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg5004063#msg5004063
Post by: Taffer on July 19, 2015, 05:46:42 pm
What happened to old hi-res version of the tileset? Last time I used it, it was smooth, now it is pixeleted.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg5004063#msg5004063
Largely because I'm a perfectionist and I lacked the time to get them up to my standards. It took me a long time to get the initial smoothed versions out, and as I updated the smaller tilesets I lacked the energy to also update the larger tilesets. I was prepared to ignore the differences for a while, but eventually the smaller set changed sufficiently that I couldn't continue leaving the larger versions untouched.
I spent a lot of time obsessing over tiny pixels in my tilesets and the larger tilesets just didn't have the same polish. Perhaps I notice them more because I don't have a 4K display. My personal life has also gotten significantly busier in the last year. You're welcome to use the older, smoothed versions if you prefer them: I consider them to be of lower quality than the rest of my set, but I left them up so that people can use them. They have some rough edges and stray pixels, but they're serviceable.
Thanks for your interest! Hopefully I sufficiently answered your question.
Lastly, I'm going to drop support for the smoothly scaled double-sized variants. I tried out a game with them and too many things bothered me. I'll still support double-sized versions, scaled as Vherid suggested several few pages back. This will also make my life much easier.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 02, 2015, 10:43:43 pm
I assume the couple of graphics included won't clash with any new stuff in the raws, will it?
I mean, give me a couple of hours and I'll have tried it out anyhow, but doesn't hurt to put Taffer back on the front page... ;)
Post by: palu on December 02, 2015, 11:00:56 pm
Post by: burned on December 02, 2015, 11:43:02 pm
Will this work as it is in 42.01?
I assume the couple of graphics included won't clash with any new stuff in the raws, will it?
I mean, give me a couple of hours and I'll have tried it out anyhow, but doesn't hurt to put Taffer back on the front page... ;)
Taffer wrote some helpful steps that you may find useful.
For posterity's sake in case you're waiting impatiently on a new version, simply delete init.txt and d_init.txt in my archive, then change the tileset references to taffer.png in the new version's init.txt. If you want the nicer sky from d_init.txt back, replace the SKY line with [SKY:250:0:0:1]. This is only necessary if those files have changed in the new version (or if you're uncertain if they have been). If you're comfortable on the command line, Windows provides the 'fc' command to compare files for differences.
Don't use the alternate interface.txt (the keybindings) in a new version unless you've confirmed that interface.txt hasn't changed (via fc, diff, or otherwise).
If the changelog mentions significant changes to the graphics or colors (unlikely), or new/changed jobs for the graphics files (possible), more work will be required. If it's the latter, just disable graphics and you'll be fine.
Post by: Taffer on December 03, 2015, 12:59:08 am
I haven't updated the graphics files yet. Fortunately graphics can still be used with only a few visual repercussions. Will fix this within the next few days. I've already fixed the Dwarf graphics raw on my computer, but I'll need to take a closer look at the others now that multi-racial forts are a thing.
Will this work as it is in 42.01?
I assume the couple of graphics included won't clash with any new stuff in the raws, will it?
I mean, give me a couple of hours and I'll have tried it out anyhow, but doesn't hurt to put Taffer back on the front page... ;)
Thank you kindly for the bump, in any case. Enjoy the tavern release!
Works for me.
Please download the new version and use that instead! My d_init.txt file was outdated, and your game is likely subtly broken if you didn't delete the old d_init.txt. The keybindings should also be avoided with the older version.
Taffer wrote some helpful steps that you may find useful.
Thank you for responding with that quote!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 03, 2015, 05:23:24 am
Yeah, I always update init manually and copy over each file separately. I like to know what I'm doing to my folders. :)
Post by: Taffer on December 03, 2015, 08:26:50 am
Looking forward to the updated graphics!
Yeah, I always update init manually and copy over each file separately. I like to know what I'm doing to my folders. :)
I forgot to directly answer this question:
I assume the couple of graphics included won't clash with any new stuff in the raws, will it?
No, graphics raws don't conflict with things, other than the lack of job icons that I mentioned. Creatures will just revert to their normal graphics if they lack an appropriate job entry. Many other graphics packs do conflict with the new raws, but only because they edit the raw files themselves: I don't.
Post by: palu on December 03, 2015, 03:55:33 pm
Updated for the new release. I have not done any actual playing, but the error log isn't showing any problems and my new keybindings work as they did before, as do the graphics. If I screwed up somehow kindly let me know, as I likely won't be devoting much time to playing this release. It's definitely a buggy one: I'm CTDing often, which doesn't inspire confidence when I'm trying to test my release. I'm 99% certain that the CTDs aren't my fault, as they happen consistently with or without my pack.
I haven't updated the graphics files yet. Fortunately graphics can still be used with only a few visual repercussions. Will fix this within the next few days. I've already fixed the Dwarf graphics raw on my computer, but I'll need to take a closer look at the others now that multi-racial forts are a thing.Will this work as it is in 42.01?
I assume the couple of graphics included won't clash with any new stuff in the raws, will it?
I mean, give me a couple of hours and I'll have tried it out anyhow, but doesn't hurt to put Taffer back on the front page... ;)
Thank you kindly for the bump, in any case. Enjoy the tavern release!Works for me.
Please download the new version and use that instead! My d_init.txt file was outdated, and your game is likely subtly broken if you didn't delete the old d_init.txt. The keybindings should also be avoided with the older version.Taffer wrote some helpful steps that you may find useful.
Thank you for responding with that quote!
I edited the inits myself, but thanks. Also, what are your key bindings?
Post by: jocke the beast on December 03, 2015, 04:33:51 pm
Best tileset ever :)
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2015, 11:05:38 am
The full graphics raws are up. Barring any vanilla bugs, elves, humans, kobolds, and goblins should always be assigned their appropriate icon no matter what strange job they find themselves in as a fortress resident.
The actual tilesets have barely been adjusted at all: the sheet tile was off by a pixel. I might improve it more. I was expecting to adjust the kerning on the sans serif version based on some claims on the Dwarf Fortress sub-reddit that it wasn't perfect, but upon closer examination there's nothing I can really do: many letters have an odd number of pixels as their width, which makes them impossible to center properly without redrawing them.
I also made the drastic change depicted below, but there's no way I'm going to make it the default.
(https://i.imgur.com/cokTcTv.png)
In the one-shots folder is this "dwarf letters" variant. I haven't seen this idea come up before, which surprises me. I've grown to quite like it in the several hours I've spent with it, but I'm aware it's a controversial change so it's in the one-shots folder. Be sure to turn off graphics if you use this, for obvious reasons. Rationale follows:
The only reason I made racial graphics to begin with was the visual disparity between dwarves, humans, elves, goblins, and kobolds. Despite the focus on dwarves, Tarn and Zach have always maintained that the game is/will be a "fantasy world generator", not just a "dwarf game". I've always liked the other DF races as much as the dwarves, and the visual disparity bothered me. The racial graphics are an imperfect idea due to vanilla bugs and my oddly limited choice of race. (Why kobolds and not gremlins? Trolls? Animal people?) TWBT is an option, but I often play without DFHack and I can only do so much with 10x10 to differentiate races anyways. This is my offered alternate solution, and I rather like it.
As always, comments and criticism are welcome. Screenshots are especially welcome, but I rarely get those. I'll look into fixing up the dwarf letters a little more, and I might update the sheet tile again.
I edited the inits myself, but thanks. Also, what are your key bindings?
Apologies for the delayed response. My keybindings change the mouse wheel to scroll through z-levels, rather than zoom. I personally dislike the zoom feature, but that functionality is still available if you hold down the Ctrl key while you use the mouse wheel. They aren't installed by default, but are available in the alternates folder. This is much more pleasant to me than using the < and > keys.
Great!
Best tileset ever :)
Thank you!
Post by: palu on December 07, 2015, 12:17:34 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2015, 12:27:04 pm
Why is blood brown in your color scheme? Is there any way I can change it back to red?
Presumably the file structure is off in a subtle way. For now, switch to a different color scheme.
Colors were too similar. I changed the brown color and the issue fixed itself. Try updating, and thank you for the bug report!
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2015, 04:29:14 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/XFk4rRS.png)
I might end up being the only one using it, but at least it looks nicer than it did this morning. A version is included for every main tileset variant of mine except for the diagonal walls.
Post by: palu on December 07, 2015, 04:44:25 pm
EDIT: The default graphics show up when I install the tileset and turn on graphics. You should be able to fix that by putting a blank graphics_example.txt in your raw/graphics to overwrite it
Post by: Taffer on December 07, 2015, 05:02:01 pm
Might I recommend changing the download link to https://github.com/nc-z/taffer/raw/master/taffer.zip ? It's quicker and less complicated to download that way.
EDIT: The default graphics show up when I install the tileset and turn on graphics. You should be able to fix that by putting a blank graphics_example.txt in your raw/graphics to overwrite it
Done, and fixed. Thanks again.
Post by: Max™ on December 08, 2015, 06:50:54 pm
Post by: 0rion on December 12, 2015, 04:08:24 pm
I also made the drastic change depicted below, but there's no way I'm going to make it the default.
(https://i.imgur.com/cokTcTv.png)
In the one-shots folder is this "dwarf letters" variant. I haven't seen this idea come up before, which surprises me. I've grown to quite like it in the several hours I've spent with it, but I'm aware it's a controversial change so it's in the one-shots folder. Be sure to turn off graphics if you use this, for obvious reasons. Rationale follows:
The only reason I made racial graphics to begin with was the visual disparity between dwarves, humans, elves, goblins, and kobolds. Despite the focus on dwarves, Tarn and Zach have always maintained that the game is/will be a "fantasy world generator", not just a "dwarf game". I've always liked the other DF races as much as the dwarves, and the visual disparity bothered me. The racial graphics are an imperfect idea due to vanilla bugs and my oddly limited choice of race. (Why kobolds and not gremlins? Trolls? Animal people?) TWBT is an option, but I often play without DFHack and I can only do so much with 10x10 to differentiate races anyways. This is my offered alternate solution, and I rather like it.
In the beginning I was dubious seeing this picture. But your explanation of why you did represent dwarves by "d" is actually very convincing. I never thought of the races that way, and I must admit that this double ledged "d" is in fact great to look at (particularly in the second iteration).
Although I do not post here often, let me tell you that each time I re-enter one of my "Dwarf Fortress periods", the first thing I do after having downloaded the game is to update it with your tileset. Well I must say that last time I lengthily hesitated with AutoReiv's tileset, but I found it too squared. Maybe I'll give it a try in the future.
As always, comments and criticism are welcome. Screenshots are especially welcome, but I rarely get those.
Here you got one. In a cavern, a bunch of unarmed dwarves are punching a giant olm (the blue exclamation point) as hard as they can. The poor beast is undergoing a permanent unconscious state, even if the dwarves barely scratch it. In the meantime I am trying to seal a part the the cavern, but of course the olm keeps scarying dwarves who come build the wall, allowing more dangerous creatures to wander around...
(http://i68.tinypic.com/25z5or8.png)
However I dislike the new brown, it is too close of a green-gray in my opinion. For example look at this designation (old versus new) :
(http://i66.tinypic.com/10r0aw6.png)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/6f0cp5.png)
Post by: Taffer on December 12, 2015, 04:52:43 pm
I like the idea of the dwarf letters, that's why I made the racial graphics resemble the letters (so big U shaped humans, little e with ears for elves, a g overlapped with a mirrored one for goblins) but some of them are really hard to do this way.
Thanks! I've seen racial graphics and creatures resemble letters before (ie CLA), but I haven't seen a tileset before that just gives dwarves a simple ornate 'd'. I actually much prefer this now that I'm used to it.
I come back here after some months, and I still find the new evolutions of your tileset rather appealing.
In the beginning I was dubious seeing this picture. But your explanation of why you did represent dwarves by "d" is actually very convincing. I never thought of the races that way, and I must admit that this double ledged "d" is in fact great to look at (particularly in the second iteration).
Although I do not post here often, let me tell you that each time I re-enter one of my "Dwarf Fortress periods", the first thing I do after having downloaded the game is to update it with your tileset. Well I must say that last time I lengthily hesitated with AutoReiv's tileset, but I found it too squared. Maybe I'll give it a try in the future.
...
Here you got one. In a cavern, a bunch of unarmed dwarves are punching a giant olm (the blue exclamation point) as hard as they can. The poor beast is undergoing a permanent unconscious state, even if the dwarves barely scratch it. In the meantime I am trying to seal a part the the cavern, but of course the olm keeps scarying dwarves who come build the wall, allowing more dangerous creatures to wander around...
...
However I dislike the new brown, it is too close of a green-gray in my opinion. For example look at this designation (old versus new) :
...
Thank you kindly for the compliment and for the complaint. Hopefully the new brown (http://www.colorhexa.com/8c7564) is more to your liking. I'm glad that at least one person is interested in the "dwarf letters" variants: I honestly thought they'd be ignored.
Thanks for the screenshot! I love the caverns, especially the multi-tile mushrooms. My first order of business is usually to tunnel straight down and set up shop there. Damn olms. Good luck sealing off the caverns. Hopefully something happens to screw things up. (Losing is fun). I also fade in and out of fondness for Dwarf Fortress. Usually it's Skyrim for me, when I can spare the time.
Post by: paxy97 on December 12, 2015, 05:39:21 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 12, 2015, 05:59:06 pm
I really love your tileset and have been using it for quite a while. But I recently got a new laptop which has a higher pixel density so 10x10 tileset are just barely too small. I found a few nice 12x12 ones, but one thing I miss are the racial icons and I can't seem to find any for 12x12. So if you have the time and willpower to help out a happy user of your tileset, I'd be very exited to have your icons on a 12x12 set. I'm not asking for the whole tileset (that would be too much, just the few for different races. Thank you for being an awesome contributor <3
Thank you kindly. You're welcome.
(https://i.imgur.com/4xV0BaA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5Czj7pT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zhQLLI2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VE4ZeEp.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LfOzB9u.png)
Hopefully these are serviceable. Change [TILE_DIM:10:10] to [TILE_DIM:12:12] in all of the graphics raws.
Post by: Taffer on December 12, 2015, 08:25:03 pm
(http://i68.tinypic.com/25z5or8.png)
I forgot to ask: do you use any mods, or install things into a save that was using graphical raws? From memory, I never see walls with those letters in the vanilla game (eg å, ä), yet I consistently see screenshots of my tilesets that look like that. The only way I've been able to reproduce it is to take a Phoebus saved game (or some other full graphics mod) and install Taffer over top of it.
Post by: palu on December 12, 2015, 09:24:13 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 12, 2015, 09:42:28 pm
Are the keybinds/inits properly updated for 42.03? I know there are a few changes.
Yes they are. I check with fc or diff myself for file differences every update and recreate everything as necessary. The keybindings are created using the in-game options screen, and I always check both the keybindings in-game and the error log before posting any changes.
Post by: paxy97 on December 13, 2015, 08:38:18 am
Thank you kindly. You're welcome.
(https://i.imgur.com/4xV0BaA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5Czj7pT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zhQLLI2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VE4ZeEp.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LfOzB9u.png)
Hopefully these are serviceable. Change [TILE_DIM:10:10] to [TILE_DIM:12:12] in all of the graphics raws.
You are the best. Works perfectly and now I can finally use ascii properly. Thank you so very much
Post by: 0rion on December 13, 2015, 11:05:50 am
(http://i68.tinypic.com/25z5or8.png)
I forgot to ask: do you use any mods, or install things into a save that was using graphical raws? From memory, I never see walls with those letters in the vanilla game (eg å, ä), yet I consistently see screenshots of my tilesets that look like that. The only way I've been able to reproduce it is to take a Phoebus saved game (or some other full graphics mod) and install Taffer over top of it.
I use the Peridexiserrant pack with DFHack and Dwarf Therapist. To install your tileset I took the ASCII graphics from the Peridexiserrant pack, overwrite the data/ and raw/ folder with yours, and set GRAPHICS to NO in init.txt. Am I doing something wrong ? Actually these letters did not surprise me but it has been a long time since I played Dwarf Fortress last time so I can't remember how it should be. In this picture the "å" is orthoclase, and the "ä" is gneiss if I remember well.
EDIT: Well indeed after checking the wiki there is definitively something wrong. Orthoclase should be "%" and gneiss "=". I will try to investigate on this.
Post by: Taffer on December 13, 2015, 11:23:06 am
EDIT: Well indeed after checking the wiki there is definitively something wrong. Orthoclase should be "%" and gneiss "=". I will try to investigate on this.
Your games RAW files aren't the vanilla ones. To fix it you'll need to overwrite the raws with the vanilla raws, both in your save folder and inside your game.
I've tried to give people a heads up about this, but I should think of a better warning.
Do not install this over other graphic sets.
Post by: 0rion on December 13, 2015, 03:42:23 pm
- Install the Peridexiserrant pack
- Install Taffer graphics in Peridexiserrant pack's folder using the ASCII graphics
- Change the graphics to Taffer (from the Peridexiserrant pack)
What I did to fix the wrong characters :
- Download the game without the Peridexiserrant pack
- Install Taffer in top of raw/ files
- Replace the raw/ from Peridexiserrant pack and my saved game by the one from the previous step
So that others know how to fix it. I noticed that this is not related to Taffer, if you use Peridexiserrant pack to move from Phoebus to the original ASCII tileset you end up with the same wrong characters.
Now look at these marvellous vanilla-true walls ! By the way it wasn't gneiss but gabbro :
(http://i66.tinypic.com/21lptab.png)
For the story the puncher dwarves finally killed the giant olm. They could then finish to seal off the cavern just before a cave crocodile showed up. The miners are currently digging to make room, you can notice that the orthoclase walls are not here anymore. We'll put pastures here, so space is required.
Post by: Taffer on December 17, 2015, 11:39:18 am
(https://i.imgur.com/TNiJgGc.png)
I don't really understand not wanting to use newer variants of my set, considering I put the old dwarf symbols in the oneshots folder and a few alternates besides, and little else is different enough to warrant the preference. The newer sets don't have the smoothed double-sized variant, however, so that's fixed now.
Hopefully this will placate people who don't want to update to newer releases. If there's interest in having me clean this variant up more, speak up.
Post by: KillzEmAllGod on December 17, 2015, 07:39:29 pm
If there's interest in having me clean this variant up more, speak up.
I never have stopped using that one, I think the only thing its been missing was the ladder.
Always loved the walls of it as well. The dwarfs had beards and were not smiley faces.
There's was never really a need to update tilesets because they were rather timeless and never need updating till the ladder.
Also stop being so harsh on your old work everyone has their own taste I think that just updating the symbols should be enough.
I do consider the these dwarfs to be pretty dwarfy. Wouldn't mind seeing a few different variants of dwarfs for this variant.
Post by: Max™ on December 17, 2015, 11:22:08 pm
I'm always happiest with the one I'm working on right now, so I feel ya there.
Post by: KillzEmAllGod on December 26, 2015, 08:27:28 pm
Theres CLA but that doesn't have the dwarfs and uses solid backgrounds on terrain, I like the objects on that for beds and etc.
If you do a dwarf with a beard and a helmet for military I might be willing to try the newer 10 size ones, do prefer 20 though.
Wouldn't mind seeing the steps you do to get the tilesets where they have to be for releasing them.
Post by: Taffer on December 26, 2015, 09:08:03 pm
Still can't bring myself to change from it even though it would help fps on this bad laptop.
Theres CLA but that doesn't have the dwarfs and uses solid backgrounds on terrain, I like the objects on that for beds and etc.
If you do a dwarf with a beard and a helmet for military I might be willing to try the newer 10 size ones, do prefer 20 though.
Wouldn't mind seeing the steps you do to get the tilesets where they have to be for releasing them.
The oneshots folder includes alternate tiles for dwarves with several variations of bearded dwarves/military dwarves in both 10x10 and 20x20, which is why I expressed mild confusion earlier. The 4chan variant will also be included in the same oneshots folder. When I get home from vacation I'd be happy to draw some more alternates if you like.
I'm glad that you enjoying my work, regardless of which version you happen to prefer. Thank you!
Post by: KillzEmAllGod on December 29, 2015, 07:29:54 pm
Will probably use the graphics if you also do some more variation for the other races.
Base dwarf is the only one that really wants more variants seeing as there's a few others for helms.
Bearded ones really has a dwarfish character to it over the smiley faces.
I just love the diagonal walls so much. Don't you dare think I'll move on from my favourite tileset either, thanks for making it tidy it was a bit hard on the edges, I did think it added to the stone though (marble and others).
Post by: Taffer on February 11, 2016, 10:08:55 pm
I had a surge of creative inspiration recently, and I'm sitting on a 20 (or so) potential changes. Some large, some small. I spent a few days working on this. No intention of making all of them permanent, I've just been playing around. Unfortunately, a few of the tiles were inspired by a different tileset and I'm still waiting on the tileset artist for permission to proceed. I'll let a slow trickle of feedback creep in before deciding what stays. I've also been slowly redrawing the 20x20 variant, but to be honest I hate doing it and so progress is glacial. If I ever finish it, though, then 20x20 will be properly supported rather than being merely rescaled variants. This shows a few of the (potential) new tiles:
(http://i.imgur.com/iWsNulp.gif)
I particularly like the new ramp arrows here, and the new rope reed tile. They'll likely be among the new tiles, unless people object. Jury's still out on the new water/ramp/mountain and the new bamboo looking tile and the new dirt/sky/stone tiles. Any colour changes are the result of shading certain tiles, not the result of a change of color.txt. A few of the tiles I whipped up are "graphical", but that stuff might need to be shunted into a "oneshots" variant. Notably, I have a version where almost every tree tile looks like an actual tree again and the ruins tile looks like a ruined keep. Goblin keeps always resemble goblin keeps. The world map is looking noticeably better.
Some more tiles:
(http://i.imgur.com/uM6rcxL.png) (http://i.imgur.com/f56hMPb.png)
This one has another set of dirt/sky/stone/ice tile variants. The
Feedback on all of the above would be greatly appreciated. As mentioned, I'm sitting on more tiles of various degrees of quality and "ASCII suitability". At some point I'll put up a gallery of side-by-side comparisons for things, after adding in the (hopefully) less egregious changes.
Post by: Taffer on February 11, 2016, 11:30:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Yb7YhYW.gif)
I perceive these to be the least controversial changes. The new shaded tiles makes water, lava, z-level ramps, and mountains all stand out less, as they should. Another preview of the changes (again, the colour scheme was not changed in between shots)
(http://i.imgur.com/qsn5Uo1.gif)
Post by: burned on February 12, 2016, 05:57:52 pm
I would say that I prefer the (newer?) brighter water and mountains and the (older?) withered plants/tendrils (169,170). I'm more fond of the traditional reed/splint/bamboo tile over the "||" one.
Overall, your aethestic sense is present in your original and new ideas - the clarity, the special "d" characters, and so forth. Awesome stuff.
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2016, 06:30:57 pm
Your new ramp arrows are nice. I love the look of the eyeballs, especially since they also suit the context of eggs, sea foam, bowls, etc perfectly (248).
I would say that I prefer the (newer?) brighter water and mountains and the (older?) withered plants/tendrils (169,170). I'm more fond of the traditional reed/splint/bamboo tile over the "||" one.
Overall, your aethestic sense is present in your original and new ideas - the clarity, the special "d" characters, and so forth. Awesome stuff.
(http://i.imgur.com/Yb7YhYW.gif)
Thank you for the feedback and compliments! My apologies, I should have made the gif clearer. I'll probably revert the shaded (darker) water/mountains, and put an optional variant in with those changes. Hopefully this image is a little clearer.
Post by: Max™ on February 12, 2016, 08:42:09 pm
The water tile (sand/snow tile to me, I use the depth markers) looks nice but I like putting a translucent layer behind ground tiles and can handle the faint backgrounds that show up in text when done like that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hope you don't mind but I think the next time I get a bug to upscale/desquare a set I'mma grab yours as it is one of the big ones I'm missing.
I also love the dwarf tiles and that they have the dot for soldiers, I did that with my goblin graphical tiles.
Post by: Taffer on February 12, 2016, 09:10:16 pm
Love the tendrils and lobster, I dig the ramps and arrows too.
...
I also love the dwarf tiles and that they have the dot for soldiers, I did that with my goblin graphical tiles.
Thank you kindly for the feedback!
The water tile (sand/snow tile to me, I use the depth markers) looks nice but I like putting a translucent layer behind ground tiles and can handle the faint backgrounds that show up in text when done like that.
I'll leave tricks like that to other tilesets. Personally, I like the purity of not having backgrounds anywhere.
Hope you don't mind but I think the next time I get a bug to upscale/desquare a set I'mma grab yours as it is one of the big ones I'm missing.
I don't mind at all. I'd appreciate a name in the credits for that tileset. Cheers!
Post by: Vherid on February 13, 2016, 09:36:54 am
I also personally prefer the diagonal lined walls over the circle filled ones.
That tree with the hanging vegetation is interesting but I'm not a fan of the fat hill shaped things at all.
The tendril/eye shaped things are neat, and they're not bad, but I'd personally not use them. I like the more symmetrical clean ascii and I think that's what stays more in line with the tileset as a whole.
The lobster, rope, "r" thing, are all nice changes though, as are the ramps.
As far as the shading thing goes in terms of making the features darker, I'm not really sure either way, doesn't seem to make a big enough difference for it to matter one way or another.
Post by: Max™ on February 13, 2016, 01:05:19 pm
Yeah, when I rescale I like to offer the versions with and without the backgrounds for those who like them. Gotten a good hang of using the GIMP tools to do this now, the one I posted was the curses_640x300 originally.Love the tendrils and lobster, I dig the ramps and arrows too.
...
I also love the dwarf tiles and that they have the dot for soldiers, I did that with my goblin graphical tiles.
Thank you kindly for the feedback!The water tile (sand/snow tile to me, I use the depth markers) looks nice but I like putting a translucent layer behind ground tiles and can handle the faint backgrounds that show up in text when done like that.
I'll leave tricks like that to other tilesets. Personally, I like the purity of not having backgrounds anywhere.
Quote
Oh for sure I always try to keep the original artist name in the set, since yours is 16x16 I'll probably do Taffer32x48.png or something with a regular 32x32 cleaned up one as well. I do my part to clean them back up but the original art and style it provides is always artist work well appreciated by me.Hope you don't mind but I think the next time I get a bug to upscale/desquare a set I'mma grab yours as it is one of the big ones I'm missing.
I don't mind at all. I'd appreciate a name in the credits for that tileset. Cheers!
Post by: Max™ on February 14, 2016, 12:48:22 am
(http://i.imgur.com/wPA8hjw.png)
Taffer30x45.png:
(http://i.imgur.com/TUo9TD2.png)
Taffer30x30.png:
(http://i.imgur.com/Kws87vP.png)
Click for full size of course, they're good sized.
I'm still playing with the shaded version a bit but needed to take a break from staring at pixels up close, but those two work great as just straight upscales/nonsquares.
Oh, I loved the modified ramp/etc tiles but I liked them lighter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on February 14, 2016, 12:21:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on February 15, 2016, 10:39:22 am
I made my own dorfletters version of my set and it really is cool once you get used to it, but I just now noticed that the "dw" (I say 'dwuh' when I read it out loud for whatever reason) tile looks like an upside down mug.
(http://i.imgur.com/kDlbdpJ.png)
Is there any way that could be more apt yet still immediately distinguishable at a glance?
You, Taffer, are awesome.
Post by: Droggarth on February 16, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
Post by: Max™ on February 18, 2016, 09:05:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Yd6SRpG.png)
and
TafferChan30x45.png:
(http://i.imgur.com/yuiRwK8.png)
Just noting again, I love dorfletters so much.
Post by: deepfield on February 24, 2016, 03:27:57 am
Post by: Taffer on February 24, 2016, 10:53:05 am
I have to agree that I prefer the weird f over the || for plants. the || is just too jarring.
I also personally prefer the diagonal lined walls over the circle filled ones.
That tree with the hanging vegetation is interesting but I'm not a fan of the fat hill shaped things at all.
The tendril/eye shaped things are neat, and they're not bad, but I'd personally not use them. I like the more symmetrical clean ascii and I think that's what stays more in line with the tileset as a whole.
The lobster, rope, "r" thing, are all nice changes though, as are the ramps.
As far as the shading thing goes in terms of making the features darker, I'm not really sure either way, doesn't seem to make a big enough difference for it to matter one way or another.
Thank you again for your feedback. I got rid of the darker features and the new tendrils, but kept the new bottom-row eyeball after all. Hope you like the update, otherwise! I'll sit on the more graphical tiles I made for a while. I'm still hoping for a response from the tileset author I took inspiration from (for the tiles I'm still sitting on), and I don't want to shift the tileset back towards being graphical after all: I'll probably release an alternate "graphical" variant at some point, including the new trees. I'll need to work on things more before then.
Well, every time I tried to smooth the edges it came out looking like crap compared to how it was originally, so I am extra impressed at how well your overall aesthetic works even at larger scales.
This is why I removed the smoothed variant, and why I've stalled redrawing it. It's not that the work is hard, it's that the font and aesthetic look off to me whenever I try to smooth the edges. I'm also happy to have a new "dwarf letters" convert.
The dwarven "d" and mug comparison is funny, but entirely coincidental. It is fitting.
Your larger and stretched variants are interesting, by the way.
To the mod maker: Thank you so much! This just made playing DF much easier on my eyes and less depressing for me.
You're welcome! My first reaction to Dwarf Fortress was how bad I thought it looked, and it wasn't because I dislike ASCII games. The default colour scheme and the default tiles don't do the game many favours, even if many have grown fond of them.
Thank you so much for updating this to 42.06. I just can't seem to play DF without you! :D :D :D
You're welcome. I can't play DF without me either.
Post by: Max™ on February 24, 2016, 03:32:06 pm
Post by: Taffer on February 26, 2016, 01:03:42 am
Preview of the second set of changes. I'm targeting the trees, without straying from the "code page purity". I'm more confident about these changes, so I'll probably just submit them in a day or two. The weight/tropical tree (squarish tree) change might not make it in, even if it's more in line with vanilla. I'll be redrawing the paper/papyrus tile as well. With all my talk of "code page purity", I'm really tempted to redraw the 1/2 and 1/4 tiles more abstractly and say stuff it to keeping them as fractions. Ditto with the ladder tile at the end of the post.
(http://i.imgur.com/91P8Set.gif)
I can actually tell the difference between tropical trees and swamp trees at a glance now. As mentioned, the tropical tree is a little "square-like" for me, but it doubles as a weight symbol so my hands are tied. I'm uncertain whether to stick with this squarish "default-inspired" tile, or to just keep using the existing weight symbol/tropical tree.
(http://i.imgur.com/6Gb6NE7.png)
Tiles 166 and 167 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tilesets#Row_11_.28160-175.29) (ª and º) are hideous. Look at them, infecting the middle of the map. Out of all the remaining tiles, they're the ones that annoy me most. They somehow manage to bear even less resemblance to what they're supposed to than almost any other tiles. I have no earthly clue how to draw a tiny tile that resembles both cloth and a dark pit. If I come up with something, expect it soon as well.
The remaining handful of tiles I'm willing to release are below.
(http://i.imgur.com/mrio1q3.png)
The first tile is a scroll, for the paper tile. It's not the one I'll be using, but I'm rather proud of it anyways. The instrument is too "graphical" for the tileset, and the tile is likely to be re-purposed at a later date anyways. I'm still feeling rather artistic, so there will hopefully be a more updates coming.
Post by: Taffer on February 26, 2016, 10:31:06 am
(http://i.imgur.com/HQMpi2o.gif)
I'm contemplating shifting the holes down a pixel on the new world map goblin tiles/cloth ((http://i.imgur.com/6KgBwx1.gif)), to differentiate 167 from 248 and to make 167 look a little more like a "dark pit". Apologies if these new tiles don't appeal to you: I can always revert them to something resembling what they were previously ((http://i.imgur.com/7DlhCzK.png)). I really want an attractive world map and those tiles were too abstract with superfluous lines.
Post by: CLA on February 26, 2016, 12:46:26 pm
I think a major advantage of the lines you deleted from the cloth/pit tiles is that it's easier to distinguish from 'a' and 'o' at a glance.
I'm not sure if that's necessary in the case of DF, but maybe making the graphics even smaller instead would help nonetheless.
About the scroll/paper tile, why not use the same tile as cloth? rolled up paper, rolled up cloth, and a scroll all look identical if we consider the pixel dimensions we're working with. I always thought the a looked perfect for that. Alternatively, '~' also kind of looks like a piece of cloth/paper.
I'm not a too big fan of the "willow" tile having two "hanging branches" - as varying line width and the resulting inconsistency is probably the thing that annoys me the most in my own tileset, and considering that it's the only tile in your tileset that uses a 1-pixel line in that way it seems like a choice for the worse.
And with the weight symbol being more square, it seems unnecessary for the sake of easy distinguishing.
By the way, posting gifs directly showing the difference makes posting feedback a real breeze.
Also, your other recent changes look great.
Post by: burned on February 26, 2016, 05:39:39 pm
Post by: Taffer on February 26, 2016, 05:45:39 pm
I'm all for differentiating the weight tile by making it more square. Looks good.
I think a major advantage of the lines you deleted from the cloth/pit tiles is that it's easier to distinguish from 'a' and 'o' at a glance.
I'm not sure if that's necessary in the case of DF, but maybe making the graphics even smaller instead would help nonetheless.
About the scroll/paper tile, why not use the same tile as cloth? rolled up paper, rolled up cloth, and a scroll all look identical if we consider the pixel dimensions we're working with. I always thought the a looked perfect for that. Alternatively, '~' also kind of looks like a piece of cloth/paper.
I'm not a too big fan of the "willow" tile having two "hanging branches" - as varying line width and the resulting inconsistency is probably the thing that annoys me the most in my own tileset, and considering that it's the only tile in your tileset that uses a 1-pixel line in that way it seems like a choice for the worse.
And with the weight symbol being more square, it seems unnecessary for the sake of easy distinguishing.
By the way, posting gifs directly showing the difference makes posting feedback a real breeze.
Also, your other recent changes look great.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm rather hesitant about the willow tree, as I rather like how swamps look now and the replacement tiles I've drawn for it haven't evoked the same effect, but I'll think on it some more. No rush, as I'm out of immediate ideas except for squaring the weight symbol.
I definitely should have made better use of animated gifs in the past, yes.
I do not believe 166 is ever used for goblin sites.
I don't think so either, but I was deferring to the wiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tilesets#Row_11_.28160-175.29). I don't recall seeing it in use, but I wanted it to be visually consistent with 167 anyways.
Quote
166 - ª - Goblin settlements on world map.
Post by: burned on February 26, 2016, 06:13:59 pm
This is a good cross-reference for the map legend (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Map_legend).
Post by: palu on February 27, 2016, 02:28:20 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 01, 2016, 01:51:39 pm
I wanted to get this out and finished before the next DF version. I'm going to stop here, as I don't want to get carried away.
Serif: (http://i.imgur.com/lbxdXjs.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/WF1I5HX.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/qwYGr8B.gif)
Sans: (http://i.imgur.com/CClIyfS.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/38T3Jv1.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/qwYGr8B.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/EFB1pi7.gif)
I fixed up the kerning a little a few versions ago and forgot to mention it. Hopefully the changes made in the last few versions don't prove controversial going forward, but personally I think I've made some substantial improvements. The world map in particular looks much nicer to my eyes.
Post by: Taffer on March 01, 2016, 08:38:26 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 02, 2016, 01:10:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/QErShF2.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/2xwPmB4.gif)
Thank you again to everybody that posted feedback. Let me know if you feel that something is slightly screwed up again.
The tendril/eye shaped things are neat, and they're not bad, but I'd personally not use them. I like the more symmetrical clean ascii and I think that's what stays more in line with the tileset as a whole.
I think a major advantage of the lines you deleted from the cloth/pit tiles is that it's easier to distinguish from 'a' and 'o' at a glance.
I'm not sure if that's necessary in the case of DF, but maybe making the graphics even smaller instead would help nonetheless.
...
I'm not a too big fan of the "willow" tile having two "hanging branches" - as varying line width and the resulting inconsistency is probably the thing that annoys me the most in my own tileset, and considering that it's the only tile in your tileset that uses a 1-pixel line in that way it seems like a choice for the worse.
Post by: deepfield on March 02, 2016, 01:25:51 pm
Post by: CLA on March 02, 2016, 01:53:24 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 04, 2016, 03:07:37 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 17, 2016, 05:11:07 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/j9prKH9.gif)
Also being considered for sacrifice are the last remnants of shading in my entire tileset.
(http://i.imgur.com/4cFzScR.gif)
I also made TinyTaffer, inspired by Crazy8x8 and this (http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1458154294308.png) beautiful looking artwork. It's looking a little squashed, and I still need to work on it a little more. I almost contemplated making this a fully supported variant: then I decided that something is seriously wrong with me. It would bring me from my current 32 supported tilesets to a whopping 64 tilesets. As a reminder, I don't have any tools to automate fixing these things up, I do it all by hand. So no. That's not going to happen. If it gets any attention I might fix it up a little and put it in the miscellaneous tilesets folder in my release. I already know the ice/dirt is looking a little ugly, it's an approach from Crazy8x8 that doesn't translate well into my style.
(http://i.imgur.com/FFMG2n3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/emghLnC.png)
I'm in even less of a rush than normal and the cup of caring is currently almost empty, so I have no idea when I'll get around to implementing all/some/any of these changes.
Speak up if you like anything in this post, or even if you hate the lot of it.
Post by: Max™ on March 17, 2016, 08:44:39 pm
God kerning is a such a insanity causing rabbit hole at times.
Post by: CLA on March 18, 2016, 05:17:28 am
Regarding the remaining shaded tiles:
Especially the heart and diamond don't benefit from being shaded, and only the clubs and spades symbol look a bit more like real trees with shading. Still, they don't really become worse without shading, and your consistency benefits from it.
So I'd say go for it.
Post by: PGGB on March 18, 2016, 04:14:50 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 24, 2016, 10:31:12 pm
I like the kerning, still love the dorfletters, and I know that feel on reducing size being troublesome. I just finally got my 32x48 I was happy with reduced to a 24x36 I'm happy with, still tinkering with the 16x24 version for the missus to use on her chromebook, though she thinks it looks great it still looks fuzzy to me. I can't imagine trying to work at 8x8 without going insane.
God kerning is a such a insanity causing rabbit hole at times.
It is, but I think I've got the kerning mostly sorted by now. I'm not really working on the 8x8 anymore, as it was a little too cramped for my taste.
Hard to comment on the kerning without seeing a wall of text comparison.
Regarding the remaining shaded tiles:
Especially the heart and diamond don't benefit from being shaded, and only the clubs and spades symbol look a bit more like real trees with shading. Still, they don't really become worse without shading, and your consistency benefits from it.
So I'd say go for it.
Oh, I'll be going for it (maybe). I can anticipate a few of the criticisms for the kerning changes, as well, and I've changed my mind on some of it. Whenever I get around to updating, the changelog should hopefully not be extensive as shown in that image. Thank you again for your advice.
I appreciate the work on the kerning issue a lot. I've returned to DF after a few years and this tileset is the best of all the ones I've tried by far. By the way making a tool to automate the creation of all the variations shouldn't be too tough if you'd like some help with that.
You're welcome. Glad you like it. I like sharp, clean, and consistent graphics for Dwarf Fortress.
I'm not certain automating things would be worthwhile. A scripted ImageMagick could be used, but I'm not overly familiar with the tool and don't feel like familiarizing myself. It seems a little daft to write an elaborate script to save me from copying a few tiles several times. The last time I delved into ImageMagick was to automatically generate pixel-art XDM login screen overlays over my currently set background, and that particular rabbit hole consumed more hours of my free time than I'm prepared to admit. (Worse yet, that particular script was lost a week later in a hard drive crash). Thanks for the offer, though.
Post by: Taffer on May 10, 2016, 05:20:41 pm
I'll still keep things updated for new releases, but I don't even have DF installed at the moment. I still welcome contributions to the rewritten creature descriptions.
Post by: jecowa on May 17, 2016, 02:50:10 pm
INTRODUCTION
Attractive Dwarf Fortress graphics that retain the style of the vanilla game, avoid graphical oddities, and don't require--yet support--third party addons. Almost every tile has been redrawn without changing its meaning.
What kind of graphical oddities does this graphics pack avoid, and how does it avoid them?
Post by: Taffer on May 17, 2016, 03:34:57 pm
What kind of graphical oddities does this graphics pack avoid, and how does it avoid them?
Everything in DF relies on a simple code page (or "ASCII") tileset. These tiles are used and reused everywhere, from menus to the map screen to the game. If you want barrels to look like little pixellated barrels, you also end up with screw pumps that look like barrels. This is so common among tilesets that I've seen fan artwork that depicts screw pumps as barrels. They're not supposed to look like barrels, they just both happen to use the same tile. If you've ever looked around a DF map before embarking and wondered why towns look like backpacks, or wondered why dwarven settlements look like statues, or wondered why goblin camps look like bundles of cloth, or wondered why somebody put traps in the mountains, then you've run into this issue. There's official support for graphics sets, but they only work on living creatures. Worse, in adventure mode they only work on living creatures that are in view of the adventurer. A dog may look like a dog, but if it dies, or it's an engraving of a dog, or you're in adventure mode and the dog is around the corner but still onscreen, it's back to being a 'd', not a nice little dog graphic. CLA cleverly makes all of its animals resemble their original letter, presumably because of this issue.
These are just a very small handful of the issues that come up: personally, they drove me insane when I started playing and I didn't understand why almost every tileset I ran into (including Tocky's tileset, the distant ancestor of my own work) had issues like these that nobody commented on. Fixing the graphical oddities that I encountered with Tocky's set is literally how my set got started. I suppose most users don't mind, or don't notice? Or the users that do mind just play "ASCII"? I'll watch Let's Plays and see screenshots, and I see weirdness everywhere. The world map--or the adventure mode map--make no sense in my opinion with many tilesets. (There's a "trap" to the north, a "backpack" to the west, and a "statue" to the east). Every set that doesn't mimic the vanilla ASCII exactly--or doesn't use TWBT--will have similar "issues". I avoid it by having every tile mean the same thing as the default tileset: if you see an icon, then it's more or less what Toady wanted to be there. Hopefully my version of the tile looks a little nicer. Note that none of this is the fault of the tileset artists, it's just fundamental limitations of the game. My set still has some graphical issues, which are detailed in a text file in the download. These can be fixed by disabling graphics, and are DF bugs.
This hasn't been as big of an issue lately because the DF Starter Pack and some graphics sets use TWBT, a wonderful DFHack plugin. Many of these complaints have been fixed now, as far as I know. I still see oddities in various screenshots, but not as much as I used to. (As a side note, I think that my set would make a wonderful "TWBT font", but nobody seems to have thought of that. I should consider releasing such a plugin)
Apologies for the "mini rant", if I offended anybody. I don't mean to, it's just that I've been seeing confusing bugs for years now in many Reddit or 4chan screenshots and certainly in every Youtube Let's Play, but nobody seems to ever talk about it or express any confusion. Even when people describe why they prefer "ASCII", it's invariably "it lets me use my imagination more", not "there's no graphical weirdness" (the best reason to use ASCII or an ASCII look-alike set, in my opinion).
Considering the (small) conversation I had with Toady and Baughn about the graphics code, nothing official will be done about this anytime soon. Toady's happy reusing his code page graphics and the fans are happy with either TWBT or graphical glitches, if they even notice the presence of either. Hopefully one day Toady cleans up the official graphics code, fixes all of these issues, and lets tileset artists do things they currently can't (like draw a dwarf on top of grass, not instead of grass).
Completely incidentally, I recommend trying out my "dwarf letters" version of the tileset if you want consistency. If I didn't have many users it would be the only supported version. Without graphics enabled you get the most bug-free experience, and by having dwarves represented as letters and not smiley faces their graphics are consistent with every other species in the game.
Post by: Max™ on May 17, 2016, 05:57:40 pm
Post by: jecowa on May 18, 2016, 12:55:04 am
Having mismatched tiles bothers me too, especially when it messes with the text. Having blank tiles instead of periods is the worst offender of this, in my opinion. I don't mind as much with the non-text tiles, though. A barrel might not look like a screw pump, but a division symbol doesn't look too much like one either. And with the barrel screw pump you can pretend like the screw pumps are contained in modified interlocking, water-tight barrels painted grey.
A few of the weird pictures on the world map make a little bit of sense. The trap representing the volcano looks kind of like a caldera. A stone statue representing dwarves make a little sense with dwarves being big into the mining and masonry industries. And I like to pretend that the yellow cup representing elven settlements is a wooden cup. I have no ideas for the velvet cloth and cabinets representing goblins or the blank tiles and different-colored stacks of tires representing humans.
For reference, this is what the world map looks like for me with all the graphical oddities:
Spoiler: "example of graphical oddities in Spacefox 34.11v1.0" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on May 18, 2016, 02:42:24 am
I like the cartoony aesthetic there but I always used the spacefox creatures with a different tileset. Back to pure ascii though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jecowa on May 18, 2016, 04:38:39 am
Post by: Taffer on May 18, 2016, 11:41:42 am
10x10
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see swamp and tropical forest in the northwest of the island and hills in the east and the south, with plains in the middle. In the northeast, east, and south you can see some menacing goblin fortresses, with goblin pits spreading out to many areas, including to the evil area to the south. There's two necromancer towers in the southeast, and some hamlets and towns in the southeast. The hamlets are clearly related: Æ is a larger hamlet than æ is. Some of the other symbol relations are less clear, but for the most part everything is straightforward once you're familiar with Toady's legend (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Map_legend). It's not on this small map, but small rivers also connect with large rivers, getting noticeably bigger without turning into railroads or walls. Some towns are larger than others at a glance, and you can tell that the symbols used (= and ≡) are related to each other. Some hills are larger than others, and the symbols resemble each other. Similarly, the ^ in the middle of the mountain range visually looks like the highest peak in that range, rather than an odd trap. Some time ago I adjusted the sets to make the mountains line up at their bases to better contrast large and small mountains. There are some elves in the west, but unfortunately their symbols (î and ¶) aren't visually related other than colour and there's not a lot I can do about that. The badlands have similar characters (V and √), but they're not as similar as they could be, now that I've noticed it. I'll adjust √ in my next release to make this relationship more visually clear. There are ruins sprinkled throughout the map (μ), coloured according to what it was before it was ruined. I have a pretty good sense of the world and can guess at how history unfolded, and I haven't even started legends mode. It's a little unfortunate that the Let's Plays I've seen don't tend to analyze the map presented and get a sense of the history and geography, they're usually focused exclusively on selecting an optimal fortress location.
To each their own, of course. I understand if you don't like it. To me everything is clear and simple to understand: there's still the "ASCII" as an obstacle, but understanding is a matter of looking at how the characters visually relate to each other rather than simply being a matter of memorization. You don't need to know that tombstones are large hills, you can see that the hill characters are related to each other and that one of them is larger. You can tell what parts of the mountain range are taller at a glance, without needing to turn to a legend. All of this is true whether you use the game's original look, my sets, or any other pure ASCII set. This is probably what people allude to when they talk about ASCII "relying more on your imagination": the symbols start to make better sense in relation to each other, and you start to see the visual relations between the letters that Toady saw when he chose those characters. Technical limitations prevent the wonderful artists here from mimicking this, but I have high hopes for TWBT.
As "artistically nerdy" as this post was, all of this sums most of the motivation for my work: I like the beauty of the original "ASCII", but not the colours chosen or how the characters are drawn. I try to make the character relations a little more clear than they are in vanilla by monkeying with the pixels, and try to make the game as aesthetically pretty (hopefully) as I think it is symbolically pretty.
Note: this is not quite how the next release's world map will look. See a few posts up for the "great kerning update" notes. As mentioned, √ will also be adjusted now to give the badlands characters a better visual relationship.
Post by: Max™ on May 18, 2016, 11:54:53 pm
Post by: jecowa on May 19, 2016, 08:52:02 pm
(click thumbnail for full version on imgur)
(http://i.imgur.com/rCoEAPO.png) (http://imgur.com/ugHKRKr)
edit: World-gen info on the imgur page is wrong. Here's the correct world gen data if anyone happens to want it:
Spoiler: world_gen parameters (click to show/hide)
Max™, are you saying that Taffer has tilesets other than this one?
Post by: Taffer on May 19, 2016, 10:50:52 pm
Max™, are you saying that Taffer has tilesets other than this one?
Current release includes 34 tilesets. I only increment the version number when the tilesets change, not for DF updates. This (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/archive/f/fa/20120329164953!Taffer_10x10.png) is the oldest copy of my work that still exists, to my knowledge (March 2012). It's basically just a tweaked Tocky, and almost everything is different, including the font itself. Of the screenshots that I usually see of my work, many tend to be of older versions.
I have other tilesets outside of my main archives, but only two have been published to my recollection: a barely-started "Art Deco" themed tileset in this thread somewhere, and my CLA addon.
Also, that's a great map, thank you! I've never rendered maps that large before.
Post by: Hexatona on May 20, 2016, 02:56:48 pm
Post by: jecowa on May 20, 2016, 03:50:51 pm
Post by: Hexatona on May 20, 2016, 04:00:24 pm
Post by: jecowa on May 20, 2016, 04:28:10 pm
Post by: Taffer on May 21, 2016, 10:45:42 am
I know this is a weird question, but is there a TTF font that's very similar to this one? I've only been able to see like bitmap fonts and any attempts to use those font finder things where you upload a picture and identify all the letters came up with zilch...
As jecowa says, you're best off converting your own. I did it myself (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg4193877#msg4193877) for a user once, and I don't remember it being hard. (The link doesn't work anymore).
Wow, that Topaz-8 looks pretty close. If you want something that's exactly like Taffer pixel-for-pixel, you could make your own. There are downloadable apps that will let you make fonts. There's also an online one that looks pretty simple. http://www.pentacom.jp/pentacom/bitfontmaker2/
Post by: Taffer on May 27, 2016, 04:15:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/9WYcR7i.gif)
Post by: Vherid on May 27, 2016, 04:27:25 pm
Post by: Taffer on May 27, 2016, 04:41:23 pm
Looking Good
Thank you!
Post by: Taffer on May 27, 2016, 06:40:33 pm
(https://i.img.ie/s0M.png)
(https://i.img.ie/ssr.png)
Similarity to tilesets other than mine is coincidental. As far as I can tell, nobody's used this font for DF before.
Please be petty and mean, reader-senpai. I'd rather fix issues now than later. Yes, it's hard to read. Use my sans-serif if you want readability.
Post by: Droggarth on May 28, 2016, 01:55:17 am
Post by: jecowa on May 28, 2016, 04:53:49 am
Here's a side-by-side of Taffer Berlin 10x10 and Lucida Blackletter 10x10 (both with Taffer colors).
Taffer Berlin
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLJ8tkI.png)
Lucida Blackletter
(http://i.imgur.com/10Vgp41.png)
Although the anti-aliased font looks a bit less pixely, the crisp 1-bit font handles scaling much better (as seen in the spoiler below).
Spoiler: "Same images at 160% the size:" (click to show/hide)
After scaling, Taffer Berlin still looks pretty good while Lucida Blackletter is pretty blurry.
By the way, your "S" looks a lot like a "G". I guess there will be over 60 images to choose from in your pack now?
Post by: jecowa on May 30, 2016, 05:03:22 pm
Post by: PopTart on May 30, 2016, 05:58:26 pm
The Greek letters need some love. Especially the "pi" or whatever letter is supposed to represent cabinets in game. I'm not sure that anything like Fraktur or other blackletter traditions exist for Greek printing. You do find a font like Fraktur used for Cyrillic, which has some of the same letters as Greek, such as uppercase pi:
Spoiler: Sweet Images (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on May 30, 2016, 06:12:01 pm
I prefer the regular reading letters, this one is painful and artsy (its the painful thing that's a 'con', artsy being a 'pro'). I don't even know what half the letters are supposed to be its like "is it a G or an O? or is a it a 0? No, must be a.. agh, why's it so hard!".
Thanks for the post, in any case! I'm well aware that the new font might not be for everyone, but I wanted to give it a try anyways. I might clear the centre of the letter "O" so that I can put the diagonal bar in the number "0", to make it more clear which is which.
I'm surprised you were able to make a blackletter font look so nice at such a small point size.
Here's a side-by-side of Taffer Berlin 10x10 and Lucida Blackletter 10x10 (both with Taffer colors).
Although the anti-aliased font looks a bit less pixely, the crisp 1-bit font handles scaling much better (as seen in the spoiler below).
After scaling, Taffer Berlin still looks pretty good while Lucida Blackletter is pretty blurry.
By the way, your "S" looks a lot like a "G". I guess there will be over 60 images to choose from in your pack now?
64, assuming I do end up releasing two new fonts with the same level of support. 65, if you include the "4chan" (old release) variant, but I have no interest in maintaining that one, only providing it. I'm glad that you like the font: it is hard to read. The "S" and "G" are particularly egregious, you're right: I might redraw the "S". Thank you for the critique.
Is it okay to include your tileset in Lazy Newb Packs?
By all means, go ahead! Please do. I was planning on submitting a patch once I got things sorted out more, but it would be appreciated if you went ahead and added them. I don't know what variants you want to include, but it's probably reasonable to exclude the "dwarf letters" variants, as much as I like them. Thank you kindly.
I think Taffer Berlin is stunning. You have made the impossible possible. I for one don't care that the S and G look similar.
The Greek letters need some love. Especially the "pi" or whatever letter is supposed to represent cabinets in game. I'm not sure that anything like Fraktur or other blackletter traditions exist for Greek printing. You do find a font like Fraktur used for Cyrillic, which has some of the same letters as Greek, such as uppercase pi:
Thank you for the support! I'll see about redrawing the "S" anyways. I'll definitely also improve the "pi" and other tiles: I'll probably end up redrawing them myself, but I'll look into Fraktur for ideas. The tileset definitely needs work, and some playtesting: I haven't even used it in-game yet. I pieced together all of the accented characters myself already, as the original font didn't include them.
Post by: Droggarth on May 30, 2016, 07:21:09 pm
Thanks for the post, in any case! I'm well aware that the new font might not be for everyone, but I wanted to give it a try anyways. I might clear the centre of the letter "O" so that I can put the diagonal bar in the number "0", to make it more clear which is which.
Heh, yeah, to be honest I'll never be using that medieval font style as it really is painful for me to read something and it is a major deal-breaker for me why I've never been able to play games like Ultima 7 and its expansion (believe it or not I've spent hours just trying to figure out what the npcs were saying to me in that game, really, really unpleasant, all because of letters being like chinese/japanese hieroglyphs and to add insult to injury the npcs were talking in old medieval British style).
Default letters/default dwarf letters are just fine for me, thanks. I have already difficulty reading sometimes the default stuff on-screen if there's too much text. Don't need any extra debuffs. x_x
Post by: Max™ on May 31, 2016, 01:05:59 am
Naturally I'm no artist, just tried to make it a little clearer that it's a "dw" and not a dong, and played with the S a little.
(http://i.imgur.com/B24KJIJ.png)
Post by: CLA on May 31, 2016, 05:43:46 am
By the way, your "S" looks a lot like a "G". I guess there will be over 60 images to choose from in your pack now?The "S" and "G" are particularly egregious, you're right: I might redraw the "S". Thank you for the critique.
That's just how some (only German? I don't know) blackletter fonts were. I think it looks good and I think it would do the style of the font a disservice to modify it for the sake of readability for people that are unfamiliar with it.
Regardless, there are other blackletter fonts that have a more distinguishable 'S'.
Post by: Nopal on June 01, 2016, 09:12:51 pm
Post by: Taffer on June 02, 2016, 11:00:02 am
I would cut a row of pixels off the upright of the d for the dorfletters, and uh... with the little .: shape as it is, it kinda looks like a flaccid cock-n-balls for the soldier dorfletter.
Naturally I'm no artist, just tried to make it a little clearer that it's a "dw" and not a dong, and played with the S a little.
I really don't see what you mean, but I'll do another pass over the dwarf letters. Thanks for the input! I like your "S", but I've decided against changing it.
That's just how some (only German? I don't know) blackletter fonts were. I think it looks good and I think it would do the style of the font a disservice to modify it for the sake of readability for people that are unfamiliar with it.
Regardless, there are other blackletter fonts that have a more distinguishable 'S'.
You're right, now that I've had a bit of time to play with it. I'll leave the 'S' be. Thank you!
Please don't do that, take one final look at this boys...
My fortress was too young and my dwarves don't have any military knowledge. The evil necromancer Song ExolngÖ brings an army of undead goblins and we were struck down easily (he gets upsed when the dwarves are represented by letters)
All my dwarves died proud to be a "d" and not a bunch of smiley faces.
Thank you kindly for the screenshots! It's always nice to see them, especially from people using the "dwarf letters". I'm glad you like them. I'll take another look at the "Ö" letter for the next update, as it does look a little odd when placed next to the other letters.
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on June 02, 2016, 01:05:46 pm
What might fit also is a Textura Quadrata from the 14th or 15th century.
can you create one on the nonsquare sheet though? otherwise it's unusable for non-widescreens.
Post by: Max™ on June 02, 2016, 07:27:49 pm
I am also afraid that my usual methods of rescaling to nonsquare would screw up the fraktur style font.
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on June 03, 2016, 06:28:46 am
Post by: jecowa on June 03, 2016, 07:42:26 am
Post by: Taffer on June 03, 2016, 10:08:45 am
i love Fraktur. in germany it has a rather dark past, but it's a beautiful font nonetheless.
What might fit also is a Textura Quadrata from the 14th or 15th century.
can you create one on the nonsquare sheet though? otherwise it's unusable for non-widescreens.
I'm not certain if you were speaking to myself or Max, but I don't have any plans for any non-square sheet. I have also decided to drop my plans (for now) to add a fourth font, and will focus on finishing up the gothic option when I find time.
To be blunt, I just don't have much free time at all these days, and I've invested a lot more lately into this than I intended to.
Are the dwarf letters real text symbols, or did you make them up? They look like real text characters, so I thought they must be some kind of paragraph symbol or currency symbol, but I haven't been able to find anything else like it on Wikipedia or Google.
I made them up. The fonts in all three of my tileset fonts only covered a-z, A-Z, 0-9, and a few punctuation marks. I drew all of the accented characters myself, including the dwarf letters. I just wanted a more ornate "d", to differentiate them from dogs.
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on June 03, 2016, 05:01:55 pm
Post by: Max™ on June 04, 2016, 11:28:13 am
Post by: jecowa on June 04, 2016, 01:47:40 pm
Launcher:
- 64% of Taffer users play without a launcher (such as the Lazy Newb Pack). The remaining 36% say they use a launcher. (This is the opposite of the norm.)
It looks like half the people using a launcher with Taffer are using Taffer as the main tileset alongside the graphics of another pack (such as Dawn Fortress or Phoebus).
TTF:
- 92% of Taffer users play with (TTF TrueType Font) disabled. And 8% play with it enabled. (This norm for this is about 50% enabled and 50% disabled.)
Renderer:
- Half of Taffer users report that they use the "Standard" render method. 29% say they use "2D". 7% use TWBT. (Normally maybe 40% use 2D, 31% use Standard, and 26% use TWBT.)
Scaling:
- It looks like all Taffer users are probably using "Linear" over "Nearest". (79% said they user Linear; the remaining 21% weren't sure. This is pretty similar to the norm.)
Resolution:
- 57% of Taffer users have a display that is 1920 pixels wide. The remaining users are pretty evenly scattered throughout. (This is about the same as the norm.)
Dwarf Fortress version:
- 50% of Taffer users prefer to use the latest version of Dwarf Fortress even if Dwarf Therapist and DFHack haven't updated. (norm is 35%)
- 7% prefer to wait for Dwarf Therapist to update. (norm is 17%)
- 29% wait for DFHack to update. (norm is 15%)
- 14% will wait for it to be included with a launcher such as the Lazy Newb Pack. (norm is 29%)
- 64% of Taffer users use Windows. (norm is 86%)
- 21% use Linux. (norm is 7%)
- 14% use Mac. (norm is 6%)
Post by: Max™ on June 07, 2016, 04:35:48 am
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on June 07, 2016, 05:13:41 am
Post by: Taffer on June 07, 2016, 11:09:47 am
Some results from a recent survey:
...
Thank you very much for the data. I like data. How many Taffer users responded?
Post by: jecowa on June 07, 2016, 01:25:01 pm
So Taffer users are cooler than average, no surprise there. :PI'm guessing this is a reference to the Operating System question showing that Taffer users are over twice as likely to be using Mac or Linux. This might be related to the fact that Taffer is bundled with Mac and Linux versions of the Lazy Newb Pack. That probably gets it some additional exposure with those users.
Thank you very much for the data. I like data. How many Taffer users responded?
14 out of 749 said they use Taffer. That doesn't mean that there's only 14 Taffer users, though. The survey was mostly only seen by people who were on the subreddit during the first day or two before it got buried and who bothered to fill it out. The survey didn't get as many upvotes as I had hoped, so that hurt its visibility too.
I think a 2% marketshare sounds pretty good for a tileset that 86% of its users are having to manually download and install themselves. (Only 14% of Taffer users look like they are using a launcher that is bundled with Taffer.)
Spoiler: For comparison… (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on June 07, 2016, 04:49:51 pm
Post by: jecowa on June 14, 2016, 02:33:27 am
Spoiler: "Taffer 20x20 - dwarf feelings (before)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Taffer 10x20 - dwarf feelings (after)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Taffer 20x20 - game screen (before)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Taffer 10x20 - game screen (after)" (click to show/hide)
Post by: FootofVecna on June 14, 2016, 11:20:50 am
Post by: jecowa on June 14, 2016, 01:02:19 pm
I don't like to nitpick - but the not-quite-black background really drives me a bit nuts. How can I make it black?
Open the "colors.ini" file in a text editor. (Located in /data/init/)
There will be three lines near the top that will have something like "Black_x: 40".
Change the numbers on those three black lines to "0" for a pure black. (Conversely, for a pure white you would change the three numbers to 255.)
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on June 15, 2016, 09:31:01 am
could i just resize a font in Photoshop by resizing the .png?
Post by: CLA on June 15, 2016, 02:18:31 pm
for me the use of nonsquare fonts with a square graphicstileset is one of the major reasons to use TWBT.Yeah, but you'll get nasty resizing artifacts. In either case, enlarging the shorter side is better than shortening the big side.
could i just resize a font in Photoshop by resizing the .png?
Post by: jecowa on June 15, 2016, 03:45:21 pm
If you scale a tilesheet, it will be necessary to clean it up afterwards to remove any blurring that crossed the tile boundaries. The box characters might need some extra fixing up to make them look correct after a scaling.
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on June 15, 2016, 05:30:44 pm
some graphic oddness might occur from using the LNP, as it sometimes uses graphicsets with overrides in different tilesizes, that then get scaled, meaning it always looks odd.
Post by: Max™ on June 15, 2016, 10:36:45 pm
Some sets are easier than others, Taffer's are frustrating as hell sometimes because they are very painstakingly tuned for the square layout and it's hard to emulate the same visual effects even if you just do a pure cleanup. Need to include different touches that fall into the art side rather than the technical side. There's a reason I love my "chop the blocky pixelation into a cut-corner diagonal and call it a day" set. I suck at getting curves that please my eye to work and some rescales really need the curves to be fixed.
Post by: Nopal on June 16, 2016, 03:36:42 pm
Post by: Max™ on June 17, 2016, 04:32:37 pm
Post by: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 01:12:37 am
- Mined out stone*
- solid workshop tile for several workshops like the magma smelter
- river sources in main map
- caves in main map
- moon on travel map
- flower buds*
I'm not seeing anything listed that would necesarily look better with a radial symmetry except maybe the moon in adventure mode.
I guess it wouldn't have to be an oval to be distinguished from the ground – maybe making the circle graphic bigger would fix the problem too.
That's why I swear by translucent ground tiles.
Do you accomplish this by turning off tile variation and deleting the period from the tilesheet?
Post by: Max™ on June 18, 2016, 05:58:01 am
Post by: Nopal on June 18, 2016, 01:17:33 pm
Post by: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 03:58:02 pm
I mean translucent backgrounds (a layer of white with between 25 and 50 percent opacity usually) to those tiles used on the ground/map stuff, it would be nice if you could still get the pure black background for ,.'` in text, but I can handle a bit of shading around them in exchange for pretty green quilts of varied grass and whatnot, and it makes things laying on the ground stand out really clearly.
Thanks, I think I misread what you said before and got confused. Text with highlighted punctuation is kind of annoying, but it definitely makes the game world look nicer.
I think the oval is more easy to identify but you're right a bigger circle will work too
I think ovals might look a bit better for the caves, reservoirs, and magma smelters too.
Post by: Max™ on June 18, 2016, 04:13:00 pm
Yeah the translucent backgrounds are awesome but i don't know how it will look on a small 10x10 tileset like taffer(http://i.imgur.com/DsTtLpq.png)
(My screen is too small and i can't use the 20x20 variant :-\)I guess it wouldn't have to be an oval to be distinguished from the ground – maybe making the circle graphic bigger would fix the problem too.
I think the oval is more easy to identify but you're right a bigger circle will work too
Just did the general ground tile tricks I do with the black so the inverted engraved tiles are grey instead of blinding white and the white for the ground tiles so they show up as a slightly faded background around the relevant tiles, some of the furniture too just because they blend in nicer I think..
The white parts might be a little too opaque, as I did it all on one layer as a test really.
Post by: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 10:35:26 pm
Did you leave 6 of the double wall tiles unshaded on purpose? (the ones circled below)
Spoiler: "unshaded wall tiles" (click to show/hide)
If so, how come?
Post by: Max™ on June 19, 2016, 01:29:34 am
Post by: jecowa on June 20, 2016, 05:22:24 am
Just did the general ground tile tricks I do with the black so the inverted engraved tiles are grey instead of blinding white and the white for the ground tiles so they show up as a slightly faded background around the relevant tiles, some of the furniture too just because they blend in nicer I think..Thanks for the example and explanation of your tile-shading tricks.
The white parts might be a little too opaque, as I did it all on one layer as a test really.
Post by: Taffer on June 20, 2016, 05:19:02 pm
Maybe this is a dumb idea, but here's some examples of what Taffer 20x20 would look like with Taffer 10x10 as its TWBT font (with space added to turn it into Taffer 10x20).
Interesting idea, but to be honest I'm uncertain about the extra tall effect. Perhaps if the font wasn't 10x20? At any rate, when I have time I'll be submitting my tilesets to the Starter Pack. Users will be able to use my tilesets as TWBT fonts there. I don't have any plans to make my pack reliant on TWBT.
I stop using this tileset because the rocks are really hard to see...
Maybe i am the only one who bother this stones so i'm not going to ask for a bigger tile.
I made this little comic btw :PSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you for the comic, and the stones! I already know how to fix this and when I have some time in a few days I'll do a proper update, including this. I'm not one for shaded backgrounds myself. Vherid suggested the same thing earlier in the thread. Thank you kindly for bringing this to my attention: the posts I appreciate the most are the ones with interesting criticism, and you even did a little comic to boot. Thanks again!
EDIT: I only just noticed that his hat has a double-ledged "d". Good show.
Post by: Vherid on June 20, 2016, 08:19:19 pm
A different stone icon would be nice though, it can indeed get lost in the noise as it currently stands. I always liked the idea of something square/cubic as even in mining do dwarves carve out neat shapes.
Post by: Chase on June 21, 2016, 01:29:54 am
Post by: Taffer on June 21, 2016, 09:17:08 am
Well, not so much suggestion as it is just to say shaded backgrounds can look neat.
A different stone icon would be nice though, it can indeed get lost in the noise as it currently stands. I always liked the idea of something square/cubic as even in mining do dwarves carve out neat shapes.
I like a square rock block as well, but because it's used by the moon I'll probably err on the side of roundness.
Will we see a fix for the known graphical issues? I absolutely love this tileset otherwise. Thanks Taffer. Also, the sparring notification is pretty hard to see.
Thank you kindly! When you say that the sparring notification is hard to see, do you mean the default colour scheme? (Taffer) There's four in the download, or five if you count the vanilla colours. I'll take a look at it.
The known graphical issues aren't fixable by me. They're source code issues, not issues with my set. If they bother you, edit init.txt (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/data/init/init.txt) and set [GRAPHICS:YES] to [GRAPHICS:NO]. This will remove both racial graphics and the bugs accompanying them.
With that being said, there's another way. Dwarves are the only ones special enough for a unique icon. This is consistent with the name and current focus but--in my opinion--inconsistent with the game's stated future direction. Rather than add graphics for non-dwarves, you can remove graphics from dwarves. My set includes a "dwarf letters (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters.png)" set.
If you see a graphical bug that I haven't documented in known_issues.txt (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/known_issues.txt), kindly let me know as it might be my fault and I can fix it. Feedback is rare and I make mistakes.
Post by: Chase on June 21, 2016, 07:32:22 pm
Well, not so much suggestion as it is just to say shaded backgrounds can look neat.
A different stone icon would be nice though, it can indeed get lost in the noise as it currently stands. I always liked the idea of something square/cubic as even in mining do dwarves carve out neat shapes.
I like a square rock block as well, but because it's used by the moon I'll probably err on the side of roundness.Will we see a fix for the known graphical issues? I absolutely love this tileset otherwise. Thanks Taffer. Also, the sparring notification is pretty hard to see.
Thank you kindly! When you say that the sparring notification is hard to see, do you mean the default colour scheme? (Taffer) There's four in the download, or five if you count the vanilla colours. I'll take a look at it.
The known graphical issues aren't fixable by me. They're source code issues, not issues with my set. If they bother you, edit init.txt (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/data/init/init.txt) and set [GRAPHICS:YES] to [GRAPHICS:NO]. This will remove both racial graphics and the bugs accompanying them.
With that being said, there's another way. Dwarves are the only ones special enough for a unique icon. This is consistent with the name and current focus but--in my opinion--inconsistent with the game's stated future direction. Rather than add graphics for non-dwarves, you can remove graphics from dwarves. My set includes a "dwarf letters (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters.png)" set.
If you see a graphical bug that I haven't documented in known_issues.txt (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/known_issues.txt), kindly let me know as it might be my fault and I can fix it. Feedback is rare and I make mistakes.
It's most likely your default color scheme the S blends in with the UI a bit.
Post by: Taffer on July 04, 2016, 10:00:39 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/TQseoDv.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/7nbhBdZ.gif)
Some punctuation fixes and an early attempt at fixing the "hidden boulders" problem. It's subtle, but with punctuation looking more like punctuation boulders come out looking more distinct. If that doesn't fix things to people's satisfaction, speak up.
I still have to look at colour schemes, redo most of my preview images, and complete the new tilesets.
Post by: Max™ on July 05, 2016, 04:17:15 am
Post by: Taffer on July 06, 2016, 10:28:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/WOh1Eid.png)
These changes remain the same:
(http://i.imgur.com/TQseoDv.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/7nbhBdZ.gif)
I'm still somewhat uncertain about the new Gothic font: it probably needs more work. I did try to give it its own aesthethic in various ways. If anything bothers anybody, please speak up.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/blackletter/solid_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png)
Post by: CLA on July 07, 2016, 04:28:49 am
Post by: Taffer on July 07, 2016, 02:54:44 pm
Bigger changes that did: (http://i.imgur.com/B8jWVov.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/Xb3JX2j.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/adGOUV5.gif)
Reasoning:
(http://i.imgur.com/356Qkda.gif)
The color scheme is fucking fantastic.
Thank you kindly~! I just made it the default with version 33. I still plan on revisiting my CLA addon for you.
Post by: Taffer on July 07, 2016, 03:47:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not proposing them. Hopefully somebody finds them useful.
Post by: Nopal on July 07, 2016, 06:03:37 pm
Post by: Taffer on July 07, 2016, 06:18:45 pm
Do you really just make a little edit on the comma to solve the small and hard to see rock tile problem?
I was expecting something else Mr Taffer :(
The new update on the tileset is awesome by the way
Thank you! Apologies: I did state that it was a first attempt. I don't personally find the boulders hard to see, so I wasn't sure if it would be enough. You'd be surprised what "little edits" can do sometimes. Thank you for the feedback.
Does this meet with everybody's approval?
(http://i.imgur.com/oaHHgzo.gif)
Post by: Taffer on July 07, 2016, 11:25:50 pm
Also, the sparring notification is pretty hard to see.
Also made another effort to fix this this. At least, it's much better than it was. The default colour scheme has changed in any event, but you can always go back to using the new and improved "Taffer" colours.
Post by: jecowa on July 08, 2016, 12:30:30 am
Another one:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This looks interesting. I think something like this might be a good way to do it. I'm not sure if that thinnest one makes complete sense when used as glacier tiles on the map, though.
Post by: CLA on July 08, 2016, 03:18:07 am
Quote from: Taffer
Does this meet with everybody's approval?I never thought the boulders were hard to distinguish in the first place, but this does make them even easier to see.
Did you check how they look next to Cut Gems (i.e. whether the new boulders symbol is easy to distinguish from tile #004)?
Quote from: Taffer
Also, some tiles that I've been using myself but I know people dislike: (http://i.imgur.com/5Eb0oUI.gif)I'm thinking that while I like that kind of shading in general (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144270.msg5699703#msg5699703), the differently sized circles make it look too cartoony, and not tidy and regular enough and that it clashes a bit with the style of your tileset.I've never really liked my current shading, but haven't ever come up with anything to replace it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another one:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not proposing them. Hopefully somebody finds them useful.
Post by: Taffer on July 08, 2016, 10:59:36 am
Hopefully things are a little more stable after this, but I'm happy to update more based on feedback.
I never thought the boulders were hard to distinguish in the first place, but this does make them even easier to see.
Did you check how they look next to Cut Gems (i.e. whether the new boulders symbol is easy to distinguish from tile #004)?
I thought it was fine, but now that you've pointed it out you're probably right. Better differentiation was necessary. Thank you.
This looks interesting. I think something like this might be a good way to do it. I'm not sure if that thinnest one makes complete sense when used as glacier tiles on the map, though.
Well there's always this variant.
(http://i.imgur.com/9KQR3el.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/8X8ie7V.png)
I likely won't be pursuing any of this further, as far as shading goes. I'm mostly posting them for people to cut and paste in themselves, if it interests anybody.
I'm thinking that while I like that kind of shading in general (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144270.msg5699703#msg5699703), the differently sized circles make it look too cartoony, and not tidy and regular enough and that it clashes a bit with the style of your tileset.
You're right, I looked over the criticism from last time as well. Thanks for the feedback.
Post by: Nopal on July 08, 2016, 01:04:00 pm
Post by: Taffer on July 08, 2016, 01:18:13 pm
Woah thanks!
I just made this crappy comic for you:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you for the art! I hope that you enjoy the new release. Happy "dorfing"!
Post by: Vherid on July 08, 2016, 09:42:56 pm
The new colorscheme is nice, and throwing a little extra style on the commas and such is also better, makes them fit more in line with the rest of the set.
The bigger stones as you have them, I'm not so sure about those. They're definitely more nicely visible but I don't know if they really fit with the set.
I really like those textured walls
Post by: Droggarth on July 09, 2016, 07:36:15 am
Even the new alternete "original" taffer color.txt is depressing. I'm sorry but I strongly prefer the v30's vibrant color scheme, already put that "old" color.txt back and I'm feeling much better.
Post by: Taffer on July 09, 2016, 10:37:31 am
Oh boy a lot of changes.
The new colorscheme is nice, and throwing a little extra style on the commas and such is also better, makes them fit more in line with the rest of the set.
The bigger stones as you have them, I'm not so sure about those. They're definitely more nicely visible but I don't know if they really fit with the set.
I really like those textured walls
Thank you for the comments! I'll think about the new boulders for a while, but I might end up keeping them. I don't really see an easy solution that's not what I already have: I can revert to what I had, but then Nopal's criticism returns (and it is valid critique). I can make them ovals like they are in vanilla, but I was hoping to avoid doing so as I like Adventure mode and the tile is used as a moon there.
At any rate, glad that you like the changes, for the most part.
The new color scheme is the only thing I hate. It's borderline depressing! I'm not kidding. Good grief the default pack looks like depressing film about stocks and Hitler and SS atrocities.
Even the new alternete "original" taffer color.txt is depressing. I'm sorry but I strongly prefer the v30's vibrant color scheme, already put that "old" color.txt back and I'm feeling much better.
Not sure why it's necessary to bring Nazism into your criticism, but I'm sorry that you dislike the new colours. Glad that you like the new changes otherwise.
I find Pastel Psygnosia to be cheerful, personally: everything may be desaturated, but it's pastel coloured. It reminds me of children's chalk drawings. The greys are quite dark by design, to contrast with the pastels: digging is dangerous, but the surface still looks nice and cheerful. I probably won't touch this colour scheme at all, I like it too much as it is.
I'm not really sure what to do about the "Taffer" colours at this point. Chase made a valid point that revealed a deeper problem with the set: it was difficult to differentiate red from light red, blue from light blue, etc. The grey's were far too light for the places Toady uses them, as well. I made the greys slightly darker to help with contrast. While this did end up making everything look a bit darker, things also got easier to see. Light grey in particular had a tinge of green that it probably shouldn't have.
I did darken many colours, but not dramatically so. I tried to bring things more in line with vanilla--which is much darker than what I have for most colours--but when I find time I'll go back and redo this colour scheme again. I'll probably use the v30's colours for everything except for the greys, but make the dark colours only one shade darker. Readability in some areas will still suffer, but it should still end up better than it was and it will be closer to what you prefer than what I currently have.
Thank you for the critique!
Post by: Droggarth on July 09, 2016, 11:42:11 am
Not sure why it's necessary to bring Nazism into your criticism, but I'm sorry that you dislike the new colours. Glad that you like the new changes otherwise.
I find Pastel Psygnosia to be cheerful, personally: everything may be desaturated, but it's pastel coloured. It reminds me of children's chalk drawings. The greys are quite dark by design, to contrast with the pastels: digging is dangerous, but the surface still looks nice and cheerful. I probably won't touch this colour scheme at all, I like it too much as it is.
I'm not really sure what to do about the "Taffer" colours at this point. Chase made a valid point that revealed a deeper problem with the set: it was difficult to differentiate red from light red, blue from light blue, etc. The grey's were far too light for the places Toady uses them, as well. I made the greys slightly darker to help with contrast. While this did end up making everything look a bit darker, things also got easier to see. Light grey in particular had a tinge of green that it probably shouldn't have.
I did darken many colours, but not dramatically so. I tried to bring things more in line with vanilla--which is much darker than what I have for most colours--but when I find time I'll go back and redo this colour scheme again. I'll probably use the v30's colours for everything except for the greys, but make the dark colours only one shade darker. Readability in some areas will still suffer, but it should still end up better than it was and it will be closer to what you prefer than what I currently have.
Thank you for the critique!
Eh, the black letter thing or whatever that was shown/talked of reminded me of the WW2 thing (of course it wasn't necessary!) for a moment and I was also pissed at the time so I couldn't think straight! >_< Was just trying to give an example and probably failing at it gloriously due to me being pissed off.
I personally can't find anything wrong with the v30's default color scheme mainly I guess because I'm bit of a tetrachromat (I can literally spend hours or more just deciding which hue to use), heck I can even take this test if I wore glasses: http://www.xrite.com/online-color-test-challenge and even without glasses I can tell hues apart even now but with some effort put in of bloody course (can't use the glasses with headphones on as it's painful after 2 hours). I wasn't aware the red and light red was difficult to tell apart because of my unique ability to tell colors and their hues apart. More like "depressing to see" now in my IMHO.
Point is I just find the new colors dull and extremely depressing plus the change from regular purple to a very dull reddish mixed with pink color.. I don't take change well, especially if it's having a depressing effect on my mental state. Sorry. I like this tileset also for its vibrant but soft colors.. the new change just tore them all out in terms of colors. But thankfully at least I can use the color.txt file from the v30 version, so... *rant off*
EDIT2: Your pack is still awesome, just not with the new colors. Old colors are fine. New are not. Final comment: Gonna take a long break. People... annoying. Must. Rest.
Post by: Taffer on July 23, 2016, 11:29:46 pm
(https://i.sli.mg/2R476l.png)
It's the English alphabet with the veneer of faux-Cyrillic. Originating font is here (http://opengameart.org/content/new-original-grafx2-font-collection). If you know Cyrillic then try not to let г (here as F, not G) or Я (here as R, not Ya) bother you. Д (D) is probably incorrect for Russian, but it works for English. Of course, I had to replace $ with ₽. Most of the code-page has been brought in line with the aesthetic, including the walls. I'll use bearded dwarves for the standard versions because I know some prefer it and because Russia and beards seem to go together.
This is the tileset I'm most proud of, even if it's an odd one. I probably did a better job here than on the blackletter variants. Dedicated to Vherid (http://imgur.com/a/uEyC1#11).
Aside from general polish and the wall/dwarf variants, I still need to improve my blackletter tilesets and create a new CLA tileset. Motivation is still low and life is still busy.
Post by: Vherid on July 24, 2016, 09:42:41 am
A strange mood struck me while reading the Brothers Karamazov. Previewing Taffer Moscow:
(https://i.sli.mg/2R476l.png)
It's the English alphabet with the veneer of faux-Cyrillic. Originating font is here (http://opengameart.org/content/new-original-grafx2-font-collection). If you know Cyrillic then try not to let г (here as F, not G) or Я (here as R, not Ya) bother you. Д (D) is probably incorrect for Russian, but it works for English. Of course, I had to replace $ with ₽. Most of the code-page has been brought in line with the aesthetic, including the walls. I'll use bearded dwarves for the standard versions because I know some prefer it and because Russia and beards seem to go together.
This is the tileset I'm most proud of, even if it's an odd one. I probably did a better job here than on the blackletter variants. Dedicated to Vherid (http://imgur.com/a/uEyC1#11).
Aside from general polish and the wall/dwarf variants, I still need to improve my blackletter tilesets and create a new CLA tileset. Motivation is still low and life is still busy.
(http://i.imgur.com/BQ2Sdmb.gif)
I've always liked the idea of Cyrillic DF. Though I am a huge slavaboo, it gives fittingly brutal look for the game.
(http://i.imgur.com/DRcZGts.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pTUuvdQ.png)
That was probably the most I messed around with the idea, trying to match up as many characters as close to the latin alphabet as possible instead of using the weird romanized similar shape idea. Though obviously there's a few issues, it was sort of neat.
I'm usually very much against the faux-Cyrillic in pretty much all instances, but here, I think it's used just sparingly enough that I don't really have a problem with the idea.
(http://i.imgur.com/exA5QvQ.png)
I also usually am very much against the idea of letters that all seem to be sort of different styles with each other, for example your uppercase is a lot more rigid where the lowercase has more flow.
(http://i.imgur.com/exA5QvQ.png)
However, this is actually the first time I've actually seen that work. It looks like it's own fitting style, and kind of gives DF it's own little flavor that actually works.
This is also nice because as much as I like black letter typesets, I think your black letter is probably a bit too much for the size it's rendered at. This however is a nice medium between that and your more regular tilesets. There are some things that might still be out of style with the rest of the set, but it's mostly pretty good. I like the Д dwarves.
The only issue I really see so far, is that, I can stretch the idea that г is an F, but when the lowercase R is the same exact thing just about, it leads me to reading the capital г as an R more likely. I think what you could do instead is, make both the R's: г, and then maybe do the Я in place of Y's. But I know you're trying to keep it latin with faux-Cyrillic which that would go against. I do like the г shape though. You could potentially move the г and replace the S with it, making it more of a super traditional black letter S. Though, it's only for lowercase.
(http://i.imgur.com/hShbUnf.png)
You could start making it semi-Cyrillic and as I said earlier with the Я going to Y it sort of fits well enough to work, and г going to R for style, Ф could go to F instead. I don't know. Just some ideas to play around with. I think you could definitely go for the Бб B replacement, that's straightforward enough if you want more.
I think I'm gonna toy around with the idea of making a colorscheme specifically for this set though, I'll see if I come up with anything.
Post by: Incantatar on July 27, 2016, 03:14:14 am
Post by: Taffer on July 27, 2016, 09:33:24 am
I've always liked the idea of Cyrillic DF. Though I am a huge slavaboo, it gives fittingly brutal look for the game.
That was probably the most I messed around with the idea, trying to match up as many characters as close to the latin alphabet as possible instead of using the weird romanized similar shape idea. Though obviously there's a few issues, it was sort of neat.
I'm usually very much against the faux-Cyrillic in pretty much all instances, but here, I think it's used just sparingly enough that I don't really have a problem with the idea.
I also usually am very much against the idea of letters that all seem to be sort of different styles with each other, for example your uppercase is a lot more rigid where the lowercase has more flow.
However, this is actually the first time I've actually seen that work. It looks like it's own fitting style, and kind of gives DF it's own little flavor that actually works.
This is also nice because as much as I like black letter typesets, I think your black letter is probably a bit too much for the size it's rendered at. This however is a nice medium between that and your more regular tilesets. There are some things that might still be out of style with the rest of the set, but it's mostly pretty good. I like the Д dwarves.
The only issue I really see so far, is that, I can stretch the idea that г is an F, but when the lowercase R is the same exact thing just about, it leads me to reading the capital г as an R more likely. I think what you could do instead is, make both the R's: г, and then maybe do the Я in place of Y's. But I know you're trying to keep it latin with faux-Cyrillic which that would go against. I do like the г shape though. You could potentially move the г and replace the S with it, making it more of a super traditional black letter S. Though, it's only for lowercase.
You could start making it semi-Cyrillic and as I said earlier with the Я going to Y it sort of fits well enough to work, and г going to R for style, Ф could go to F instead. I don't know. Just some ideas to play around with. I think you could definitely go for the Бб B replacement, that's straightforward enough if you want more.
I think I'm gonna toy around with the idea of making a colorscheme specifically for this set though, I'll see if I come up with anything.
Thank you for the praise and for the advice. I'll see about improving things without veering too far away from English: if I go too far I can always leave it in the alternative tilesets folder. Looking forward to seeing the colour scheme.
Hey Taffer, i'm using your default color scheme. All well except vomit is blue. Shouldn't it be greenish, yellowish? Should i try another of the schemes?
Thank you kindly for the report. I'll look into fixing that soon. I'm not really playing Dwarf Fortress recently, and none of the test games I played got far enough to have anybody vomit. Use a different colour scheme for now. Nothing's wrong with your game.
Dwarf Fortress has this
Post by: jecowa on July 29, 2016, 03:44:12 pm
Post by: Taffer on July 29, 2016, 04:28:23 pm
I noticed in the credits section of the OP that you don't mention Dawnbringer. Do you know where his color palette came from?
Tricky question to answer exactly, and it depends in what sense you mean.
DawnBringer's palettes are here (http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12795) and here (http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16247). Neither one is fit for Dwarf Fortress by itself, they need to be blended together. I either forgot to credit DawnBringer on the front page or figured that naming the colour scheme after the artist was enough.
Quote from: DawnBringer
And yeah...feel free to use this palette.
In terms of the colour scheme I distribute, I would need to dig that information up myself. I indendently made a DawnBringer palette some time ago: if the starter packs were distributing a variant of it at that time then I wasn't aware of it. At some point I mentioned it in an e-mail to DragonDePlatino, who provided me with a better version. I honestly don't recall if I'm currently using Dragon DePlatino's version or if I just fixed up my own version instead. It's possible that my DawnBringer set is identical to the other DawnBringer colour schemes I've seen floating around: it wouldn't surprise me, as I might have just used DragonDePlatino's version and we're all deriving from the same limited set of colours anyways.
All of that being said, in retrospect Dawnbringer is not a great palette for this kind of thing. It's intended as a palette you design a game or work of art around, not something you throw into an existing game. Anything cobbled together from those palettes doesn't really have the visual harmony the artist intended. There are better palettes out there, waiting to be used.
Post by: jecowa on July 29, 2016, 04:46:48 pm
Spoiler: Taffer's Dawnbringer (also used in Wanderlust)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Spoiler: DragonDePlatino's Dawnbringer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on July 30, 2016, 08:47:19 pm
Hey Taffer, i'm using your default color scheme. All well except vomit is blue. Shouldn't it be greenish, yellowish? Should i try another of the schemes?
Fixed with version 36. Try the new release!
Post by: Taffer on July 30, 2016, 09:24:41 pm
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/moscow/hollow_walls/diagonal_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/moscow/hollow_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/moscow/solid_walls/diagonal_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/moscow/solid_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters_10x10/moscow/hollow_walls/diagonal_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters_10x10/moscow/hollow_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters_10x10/moscow/solid_walls/diagonal_walls/data/art/taffer.png) (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/dwarf_letters_10x10/moscow/solid_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png)
Plus the Vherid variant, located in the miscellaneous tileset section. Hard to read but more Slavic.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/miscellaneous/vherid_moscow.png)
These dwarves are bearded: the remaining tilesets and default graphics are not. As such, instructions have been left directing users to the miscellaneous folder to get their bearded dwarf graphics fix. I'm considering turning off racial graphics by default and then adding in a multiple-folder system for the racial graphics analogous to my current system for tilesets. This might be easier for users.
As always, feedback is welcome. Obviously double-sized versions of all the above are included, with the exception of vherid_moscow.
Next release--no plans at present--will be 3.9, not 39.
Post by: Max™ on July 31, 2016, 01:10:42 am
Post by: Tallcastle on July 31, 2016, 04:11:17 am
(you know ... like me)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vherid on August 13, 2016, 05:58:26 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/TzF4gYH.png)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i.imgur.com/mynVVw9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DMlZCrx.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/RtlpJUd.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/qOmhQLm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/c9eAAwa.png)
Post by: Taffer on August 14, 2016, 01:11:41 am
Soyuz
(http://i.imgur.com/SlPYvb9.png)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Great work! It seems to fit the colour scheme well. Having yellow instead of magenta is an interesting stylistic choice. My favourite part of my new Palette scheme is my yellow colour: I similarly like this orange. It makes me want to embark on a desert.
Might I please include the colour scheme in the next release, with credit?
Post by: jecowa on August 14, 2016, 02:51:38 am
SoyuzThat's seems pretty bright for black.
[BLACK_R:49]
[BLACK_G:21]
[BLACK_B:0]
A darker black would contrast better, but maybe I just don't understand.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vherid on August 14, 2016, 08:21:36 am
That's seems pretty bright for black.
A darker black would contrast better, but maybe I just don't understand.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Upon taking a second look I think you're right, but that one is a little too far in the other direction I feel. I'll tweak it to a better middle ground.
Might I please include the colour scheme in the next release, with credit?
Thank you,
Yes, once I touch it up a bit.
EDIT: Alright I darkened the black a bit more to my liking. It's a stylistic thing, I enjoy the way it blends with the greens and makes them more muted but still interesting to look at, while keeping the overall feeling warm. It's good to go now.
Post by: Taffer on August 19, 2016, 01:14:33 pm
Post by: Taffer on August 19, 2016, 03:07:16 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/0hYHihD.png) (http://ulafish.deviantart.com)
Post by: Taffer on August 19, 2016, 06:23:44 pm
Dwarf
(http://i.imgur.com/49Y8eru.gif)
Human
(http://i.imgur.com/dZxpOBq.gif)
Elf
(http://i.imgur.com/B2maSMb.gif)
Goblin
(http://i.imgur.com/TNA4hkl.gif)
Kobold
(http://i.imgur.com/tM4xWD3.gif)
I've also finally started the new CLA addon and I'm making reasonable progress.
Post by: Taffer on August 20, 2016, 01:13:24 am
Post by: Max™ on August 20, 2016, 08:57:10 pm
Post by: Taffer on August 20, 2016, 10:14:39 pm
Tafferanon was Taffer? Than who was phone?
Not sure what you mean by phone, but I made my first--and last--two 4chan posts in response to somebody asking about Taffer/CLA for 0.42.05. Being tired and naive, I assumed they wanted my Taffer/CLA addon updated to that version. I was working on it at the time so it was an easy assumption to make.
In retrospect they were probably just asking for either Taffer or CLA for 0.42.05 and they just don't know how to edit init.txt.
Post by: Max™ on August 22, 2016, 09:17:40 pm
Post by: Taffer on September 04, 2016, 01:19:11 pm
Dwarves
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/raw/graphics/taffer/taffer_dwarves.png)
Alternate Dwarves
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/alternates/graphics/moscow_dwarves.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/alternates/graphics/bonemold_dwarves.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/alternates/graphics/oldtaffer_dwarves.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/taffer/tilesets/alternates/graphics/skullhelm_dwarves.png)
Humans
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/raw/graphics/taffer/taffer_humans.png)
Elves
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/raw/graphics/taffer/taffer_elves.png)
Goblins
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/raw/graphics/taffer/taffer_goblins.png)
Kobolds
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nc-z/taffer/master/raw/graphics/taffer/taffer_kobolds.png)
EDIT: Post-release fixes.
Post by: Taffer on September 04, 2016, 10:25:04 pm
My modified preview image should clarify the floor change: the thinner floor is the new floor. (Actually old floor, this is really just reverting new work).
(http://i.imgur.com/9gfXhH2.gif)
After some thought I think that it looks nicer this way. The floor shouldn't stand out: everything on it should.
Post by: Taffer on September 04, 2016, 11:00:11 pm
You'll be back, one of us, one of us, one of us!
Still no plans to post, but I forgot to call you out on this:
Quote from: Max™ (probably)
...and rumor has it Taffer has been spotted lurking around. I set some traps so I could have my very own pet taffykun but I had no luck yet
I prefer Taffysenpai. :þ
Ok wait, where did you learn how to upscale things without them being fugly like I make them, is there a guide somewhere I missed? I had a horrible time trying to upscale parts of the walls from one of the 20x tilesets I like to work with the 24x I use, do you use photoshop or GIMP for it?
Ahhhh, see, that is probably the question I should ask, what makes a good pixel scaler, huh?
Quote from: Taffer
Date Registered: February 29, 2012, 19:05:32
Quote from: Max™
Date Registered: September 15, 2014, 22:15:44
Post by: CLA on September 05, 2016, 05:41:41 am
Blitzing through updates. Now up to 4.1. After a few minutes playing and some thinking, I adjusted the floor tile in all tilesets--except the Moscow sets, which didn't need it--for better visibility and differentation while playing. I also made a very minor adjustment to light grey in the Pastel colour scheme in the interest of increasing clarity between dark grey and light grey.
My modified preview image should clarify the floor change: the thinner floor is the new floor. (Actually old floor, this is really just reverting new work).
(http://i.imgur.com/9gfXhH2.gif)
After some thought I think that it looks nicer this way. The floor shouldn't stand out: everything on it should.
I like this a lot. Good change.
Post by: Max™ on September 06, 2016, 10:53:13 am
Post by: Taffer on September 06, 2016, 11:03:21 am
I like this a lot. Good change.
Thank you kindly. Next time I feel up to tileset work I might pass over everything again and see what other tiles are thicker than they need to be.
I was using taffykun as a sign of affection not the diminutive form, and the new floors are better, though I just noticed the 4.0 dwarf soldier alternatives, the last one has a space invader eating their head, poor little thing must be hungry for brains and not know a dorf mostly uses their head as a mounting point for the beard plus stray ammo storage.
Thank you for making me laugh. I always felt that my dwarf soldier alternatives were somewhat unnoticed: I surmised people were still using older versions because they preferred beards and the old soldiers so I threw in various options for those people, but I've never seen anybody use the alternates.
Post by: Max™ on September 06, 2016, 11:13:04 am
Post by: Taffer on September 06, 2016, 04:10:46 pm
I like them because you keep the /dfg/ variant soldier/beards in there, which, like I said, it's just such a cozy looking set, but yeah... the space invader hat was an interesting twist.
Hopefully the skull hat looks more like a skull hat now and a little less like a space invader. Thank you kindly for the critique. The next release will include it or you can get it off of GitHub.
(http://i.imgur.com/e2rTbM0.gif)
Post by: Taffer on September 06, 2016, 09:50:08 pm
Shifting the alphabet down is irrelevant, that's just to give more room for the accented characters. The most controversial changes are probably to =, ≡, !, and ‼. (Two alternatives: (http://i.imgur.com/tdDyPGF.gif)). Every tileset will be brought in line with vanilla, preferably without negatively impacting the look of the tilesets.
As mentioned, this probably isn't going to get done in a timely fashion.
(http://i.imgur.com/G21B2dY.gif)
I'll also post a work in progress 8x8 with the hope that by posting it I'll stop working on the damn thing for a while. This one is based off of Kronos Bold (http://opengameart.org/content/new-original-grafx2-font-collection). I don't know if I'll ever finish it, but if I do it'll go into the alternatives folder along with a 16x16 version.
(http://i.imgur.com/WDt3qcz.png)
Post by: jecowa on September 06, 2016, 11:43:30 pm
Post by: Taffer on September 06, 2016, 11:47:13 pm
Wow, the Klingon homeworld. I thought the next stop on your tour would be another one of Earth's capital cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus)
The Paris font isn't as nice a serif font as Kronos, and Tokyo is interesting yet too strange to interest me as a tileset. I do seem to have done two of the city fonts. I do love greek mythology though, and am slowly accumulating a small library on it. I have no interest in Star Trek, to be honest.
Post by: CLA on September 07, 2016, 04:58:19 am
On an only tangentially related note, the general ambition to strip down and reduce differences of single tiles from vanilla and concentrate on overall stylistic changes and consistency is, I believe, a good sign of maturity in a tileset - one which CLA is clearly lacking. At the moment I feel like CLA should be a lot more ASCII-like. Basically Haowan with some opaque tiles and minor changes. But oh well, busy life and all that.
Post by: Taffer on September 13, 2016, 04:01:37 pm
I'm making this visually significant change to ≈. It's probably more controversial than my other changes.
(http://i.imgur.com/nsljvz3.gif)
Thoughts? Sand and liquid visually overpower other tiles at the moment, which they shouldn't. I already made a feeble attempt (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg6805421#msg6805421) at fixing this. Thick lines have been a staple of my tilesets since my first release: they've been minimized somewhat. The result is more harmonious and looks more like "Dwarf Fortress".
From the tileset it looks like they're all good changes (not sure on the male/female symbol though), but without seeing how it looks in game -- and I don't mean a quick glance, but a long, actual playing session --it's hard to pass a final judgement. The exclamation mark, for example might now be harder to discern from other symbols similar to a vertical line. It might be useful to discern the greek letters more readily from latin letters. Or it may not make any practical difference. I think at this point in your tileset evolution, you're always walking on a razor's edge between beauty, consistency and usability; and it's hard to see when you're straying too far from a good compromise. In either case, it's obvious that the changes don't make it massively worse, so most likely they're all good.
On an only tangentially related note, the general ambition to strip down and reduce differences of single tiles from vanilla and concentrate on overall stylistic changes and consistency is, I believe, a good sign of maturity in a tileset - one which CLA is clearly lacking. At the moment I feel like CLA should be a lot more ASCII-like. Basically Haowan with some opaque tiles and minor changes. But oh well, busy life and all that.
Thank you kindly. I'm still thinking about the male/female symbols. I usually rush into updates: hopefully I manage to take my time so that I can get that balance between beauty, consistency, and usability correct.
Post by: jecowa on September 13, 2016, 04:29:29 pm
Post by: Taffer on September 13, 2016, 04:47:57 pm
Just from this screenshot I like that the thicker water contrasts a little more against the land and make it easier to see where the border between the two is. It might be just the quotation grass tile (") that the thin water blends in with, though.
Thank you kindly for the criticism. I tried again and added a frame: I might have a better balance this time.
(http://i.imgur.com/OeaWWdm.gif)
A sample world gen comparing these iterations:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on September 14, 2016, 02:46:12 pm
Post by: jecowa on September 14, 2016, 04:49:17 pm
A sample world gen comparing these iterations:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's a tougher choice here. The thinner water definitely looks better with the main landmass, but the thicker water looks against the islands and landmass in the topleft. While on my phone, I was thinking the thicker water looked a bit better overall, but from my laptop now, I think the thiner water looks better overall.
Post by: Tallcastle on September 15, 2016, 01:05:45 am
It's a tougher choice here. The thinner water definitely looks better with the main landmass, but the thicker water looks against the islands and landmass in the topleft. While on my phone, I was thinking the thicker water looked a bit better overall, but from my laptop now, I think the thiner water looks better overall.
Just from this screenshot I like that the thicker water contrasts a little more against the land and make it easier to see where the border between the two is. It might be just the quotation grass tile (") that the thin water blends in with, though.
I second Jecowa's sentiment. go thinner.
Post by: Taffer on September 15, 2016, 11:15:48 am
Yeah, with the added blackspace it looks more wave-y and distinct.
It's a tougher choice here. The thinner water definitely looks better with the main landmass, but the thicker water looks against the islands and landmass in the topleft. While on my phone, I was thinking the thicker water looked a bit better overall, but from my laptop now, I think the thiner water looks better overall.
I second Jecowa's sentiment. go thinner.
Thank you kindly for the input, everyone. I'll go with the thin version.
Post by: raeborga on September 15, 2016, 01:39:58 pm
Thank you kindly for the input, everyone. I'll go with the thin version.
[haiku]
I endorse blank space.
Might make a map tileset soon.
Would be pretty cool.
[/haiku]
Is tile one syllable or two!?
Post by: Tallcastle on September 15, 2016, 02:29:46 pm
Post by: feelotraveller on September 16, 2016, 01:21:08 am
Quote
QuoteThe three colour schemes I kept for future experimentation were Another Natural Colour Scheme (far less bright, but that can be a good thing), AngleWyrm's Colourset (needs the greens to be more distinct) and Dawnbringer by Taffer (I'm a bit bothered by the off-black). There were a few which made my head hurt, and another half a dozen I noted down for an honourable mention. And several which were good but had a shockingly bad bit (bright orange for brown sticks in mind) which made them unusable for me.
Thank you for the thumbs up for Dawnbringer, although I only assembled two of DawnBringer's palettes. I've darkened black in three colour schemes for you--Pastel, Taffer, and Dawnbringer--but not to pure black. It'll be in my next release. If you have any other criticisms about any colour schemes that I distribute please consider sharing. I've removed RawberryCough's Rawberry scheme from my next release under the assumption that it's the "bright orange for brown" that you mentioned.
Just popping over to say that it was more of a comment than a criticism. Dawnbringer is on the short short list. The somewhat blue black did fit welll with the rest of the Dawnbringer set and I could (perhaps) get used to it so I hope at least in that case that the change was not too drastic. That said there were several coloursets - by other people - which I would never consider using because the black was so unblack=off putting for me. And none of yours made my head hurt. But if other boats are floated all the more power to them!
I will in the future give your coloursets a whirl with properly a developed fort (got to build it first) and provide some feedback. Still I'm only one fish and it's a mighty big pond. ;)
Post by: raeborga on September 16, 2016, 02:32:26 am
the black was so unblack=off putting for me.
Try lowering your gamma? ¯\_{◘ᴥ◘}_/¯
"Unblacks" are usually black to me unless I gently boost my gamma.
~Idunnoman~
Or try R=7, G=15, B=23 for an easier-on-the-eyes dark blue.
Post by: Taffer on September 19, 2016, 12:23:51 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ibfCQoH.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/h0XQNiS.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/UrpezaR.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/nEyutov.gif)
Far better accented characters, notably. Blackletter got some attention, and Moscow was brought back in line with the remaining sets somewhat: I found it to be too esoteric for comfortable use in places. Serif was brought more in line with its origin font, Saikyo Serif. Similarly, Sans-serif was brought more in line with its origin font, Torus Sans. Black was darkened in several colour schemes. New liquid/sand tiles (126 & 247), already discussed, and new rock tiles (176-178). Unnecessarily thick lines have been thinned. There's more changes than that, but those come to mind.
I probably screwed up, so kindly let me know. If the new update annoys you, kindly let me know. If I've successfully converted a few more "vanilla tileset" users, kindly let me know. If I'm off somewhere by a pixel or if something is coloured 253,253,253 rather than 255,255,255, kindly let me know.
Knowing me, there might be a new release in a day or two, even though I tried to avoid that by waiting.
Post by: Max™ on September 19, 2016, 05:53:48 pm
Post by: Taffer on September 21, 2016, 10:19:34 am
I like the thinned up tiles, though the fat cabinets still have a home-y comfy feel, the new ones are much more inline with the rest of the set. The added spacing on the dw soldier tile is also nice.
Thank you for your thoughts. I'm glad you like things. You feel the same way I do about the cabinet/goblin tower change: I prefer the older version, but this fits in better and actually looks like π.
Post by: Nopal on September 26, 2016, 04:09:31 pm
Post by: jecowa on September 26, 2016, 04:31:39 pm
Also i made this minicomic based on your new front page :PSpoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not getting the impression that dwarves aren't special from the front page. There are multiple variations of graphics sets for dwarves on display while the creatures of the other civilizations only get one set each. The death toll mentions how many dwarves died in the making of this tileset, but nothing is mentioned of how many of the lesser species have perished. Dwarves get all the attention.
Post by: Nopal on September 26, 2016, 04:56:50 pm
Post by: jecowa on September 26, 2016, 05:04:04 pm
C'mon jecowa stop being so serious and enjoy the joke!
--
Also i always wanted to know. Your avatar is a dog or a cow? :)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's very adorable. Clarus is a dogcow. She actually says "Moof!"
Post by: Taffer on September 26, 2016, 05:52:25 pm
Hello Taffer
--
I just want to ask you why do you choose the 10x10 size for your tileset instead of 12x12 or 16x16?
Thank you Tocky (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Tocky_square_10x10.png) for the inspiration (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Df_tock10_1.PNG) and colour scheme.
I started by scratching itches with Tocky's set: fixing things that I disliked. Tocky's set is 10x10. A move to any other size essentially means redrawing my set again: every tile, or almost every tile. I made my 18x18 CLA set just by removing blank space from my 20x20 set, and it ends up more cramped than I like as a result. In some ways I prefer 8x8. I could switch, but I have no motivation to: I like 10x10. I also can't play with anything above 12x12.
Also i made this minicomic based on your new front page :PSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you for making my day. Honestly.
Post by: r4c7 on October 08, 2016, 04:33:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jecowa on October 08, 2016, 04:44:51 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 08, 2016, 05:11:44 pm
I've been loving this for probably more than six months of use. The one issue I have with it is the text files. The vanilla dwarf fortress text files use a lot white space making it easy to find the option settings you are looking for. Your text files have no white space i.e. no separation of lines of text. This is even worse if you don't have text wrapping on, as it puts all of the text out of your view. I hope you understand what I am saying. Here is a picture to help:It is a minor thing, but I would appreciate it if this got eventually fixed. I haven't been able to find any mention of it, so I thought I would say something. Thanks for your hard work making my life more enjoyable.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you kindly for the praise: I'm glad you're enjoying it. As to the files, jecowa's right: use a different editor. I also use Notepad++ when I'm in Windows.
Post by: r4c7 on October 08, 2016, 06:15:42 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 12, 2016, 12:52:18 am
(http://i.imgur.com/UQ88Vy9.png)
Instructions to replicate this with any tileset, because I have zero interest in maintaining duplicate copies of all of my tilesets with this effect:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i.imgur.com/2fLRYq3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/jkqB0D8.png)
Also, who needs colour?(http://i.imgur.com/jkqB0D8.png)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, Game Boy Taffer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i.imgur.com/crlOPBJ.png)
Post by: Taffer on October 14, 2016, 06:09:10 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/8uOLPV9.gif)
Moscow has, of course, it's own pillars that match its unique walls, and the hollow walls have a unique pillar, all of which are more to my liking as it is. Depending on which of my tilesets you use, this change might be welcome or unwelcome, but it definitely unites the aesthetic of all of my tilesets and solves problems such as Moscow's wall/pillar alignment issues, or the solid wall pillars not fitting in with the rest of the wall aesthetic.
Previews of hollow and Moscow solid/hollow walls:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jecowa on October 14, 2016, 06:53:40 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 14, 2016, 06:56:08 pm
I dunno. Having a hole in the middle seems a lot more traditional columny, but I think I like the big solid one a bit more. This is just for solid walls, right?
That's correct, apart from Moscow's solid walls. The remaining pillars are depicted in the spoiler with their associated walls. Thank you kindly for the input!
Post by: r4c7 on October 14, 2016, 08:28:13 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 15, 2016, 07:09:50 pm
The next release will fix the alignment of the î character for the Moscow and Blackletter fonts, but I'm also deviating slightly from vanilla to add a pillar tile on tile 255.
(http://i.imgur.com/8uOLPV9.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/dmSjUug.png)
Moscow's walls:
(http://i.imgur.com/VyRmuLO.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/3Wpwf8e.png)
Post by: Max™ on October 18, 2016, 08:34:44 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dmSjUug.png)
But I can see having the smaller hole for the solid walls.
Post by: jecowa on October 19, 2016, 05:23:46 am
Spoiler: dwarf screenshot (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: tree screenshot (click to show/hide)
tilesheet:
Spoiler: tilesheet - "alpha active" (click to show/hide)
other variations:
Spoiler: tilesheet - "classic" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: tilesheet - "alpha passive" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on October 19, 2016, 12:02:59 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 26, 2016, 10:19:03 am
This little guy has been feeling left out recently:Spoiler: dwarf screenshot (click to show/hide)Spoiler: tree screenshot (click to show/hide)
tilesheet:Spoiler: tilesheet - "alpha active" (click to show/hide)
other variations:Spoiler: tilesheet - "classic" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: tilesheet - "alpha passive" (click to show/hide)
Thank you for updating this. I should have responded sooner. I probably won't add it back to the pack, though, as I'm not much of a fan of my old work anymore. Perhaps one of these days I can revisit my 20x20 sets and draw them properly, rather than just double the base set. It'd be an enormous amount of work, though.
Post by: jecowa on October 26, 2016, 10:37:34 am
Post by: Taffer on November 03, 2016, 12:52:02 am
(http://i.imgur.com/KflMhf3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/C4hpy2T.png)
An actually finished 8x8 thing. Better readability, less whitespace, squashed characters, and almost unreadable accented characters. Definitely smells like an 8x8 tileset. I'll probably fix it up more and add it to the variants folder when I feel better, but there's only so much I can do.
(http://i.imgur.com/bEkXi3g.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PGILS4Y.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/oEaJHyS.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/y8uCBsu.png)
That hoshi is nice.
And three years later I made a tileset out of it (http://opengameart.org/content/the-collection-of-8-bit-fonts-for-grafx2-r2).
Post by: jecowa on November 03, 2016, 03:07:23 am
Accented characters don't need to be very readable because I don't know what most of them mean anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they used accented characters in the translations mostly to make the languages look more exotic.
Is Hoshi the character in the top-right corner of
Post by: Taffer on November 03, 2016, 12:00:09 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/VDwMyKt.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/QyvQnGH.png)
Theme song for this release: old school game boy music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vKxju-ccQ0).
Small tilesets are great for making screenshots of large maps and seeing more of the map at once without having to downscale the image.
Accented characters don't need to be very readable because I don't know what most of them mean anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they used accented characters in the translations mostly to make the languages look more exotic.
Is Hoshi the character in the top-right corner ofthe bridge of the NX-01 Enterprisethe main tilesheet?
I suppose you have a point about the accented characters, but I personally still consider their readability to be important. I have a much higher opinion of my sets now that I finally made the accents clear and legible.
To be honest I dislike watching science fiction: I'm invariably disappointed. I love reading it, though. No idea if usr_share named the font after that character.
Post by: Taffer on November 03, 2016, 01:39:03 pm
I enjoy it so much that I was almost tempted to replace the other pillars with more tetrisy-tiles, but I decided to leave well enough alone. The round pillars suit the rounded walls.
If anybody finds this change appealing, speak up. The "pillar inside the pillar" is the new potential design.
(http://i.imgur.com/Qg6lthB.gif)
Post by: DragonDePlatino on November 03, 2016, 01:54:01 pm
Also, shame on you and your Type A tendencies! Type B represent! 8)
Post by: Taffer on November 03, 2016, 01:59:58 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/K3b1oKr.gif)
The tetris-y pillars look the best. It's memorable because I haven't ever seen it in another tileset. The pillar-inside-pillar is only better if you plan on reusing that for tree trunks.
Also, shame on you and your Type A tendencies! Type B represent! 8)
They are indeed reused for tree trunks. Also, Type A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgNnqH-cvT8) is where it's at.
Post by: jecowa on November 03, 2016, 02:12:09 pm
The pillar-inside-pillar is only better if you plan on reusing that for tree trunks.
The nested column does make a great tree trunk, but for use as a column, I think I like the hollow one a little better.
Edit: Oh, now there is a third "L" option. That's an interesting one. I like that one.
Quote from: Taffer
No idea if usr_share named the font after that character.
I didn't realize the font was called Hoshi. I was thinking the dwarf buck / sunshine character might have been called Hoshi.
Post by: Max™ on November 04, 2016, 05:13:01 am
Post by: Taffer on November 07, 2016, 10:02:54 am
Another release, and the last one I'm expecting to make for a while. I'm still open to reverting or changing the solid wall tile, but I settled on (http://i.imgur.com/GD16M7h.png) after all.
(http://i.imgur.com/FWIvxR1.gif)
I thinned the diaereses/umlauts to match 'i' and 'j' in all tilesets and put some more polish into Moscow. It's now more pleasant to use (and my personal favourite tileset). Diaereses/umlauts are now used to differentiate military dwarves from non-military dwarves just like other races. Moscow dwarves remain 'д' and 'Д'.
Post by: jecowa on November 07, 2016, 10:15:58 am
Post by: Taffer on November 14, 2016, 11:56:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here (http://imgur.com/a/t2KRS) is the rest of the serif set. I won't be done for a while in any case: there's still 3 more tilesets, ignoring the comparatively trivial alternate walls and dwarf letters. Is it worth it?
Post by: jecowa on November 15, 2016, 12:51:25 am
The / and \ accents looks a bit too long.
The circle on the å might look better if it was lowered a pixel.
The circle on the Å might look better if it was shifted to the left a pixel.
The ^ accents might look better if they were lowered a pixel, and I'm wondering if the ^ accent on them is too large.
Maybe make the "W" look more like a vertical mirror of the "M".
The "T" looks kind of small. Maybe some pixels should be added to the left and right side to make the top serifs thicker.
The "x" might look a bit slender compared to the other characters.
Some characters such as the "T" through "Z" are centered in the tile while others like "D" through "G" are aligned a bit more to the left. But maybe that's intentional.
Maybe the "M" & "N" would look better with their stems a bit farther apart.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on November 15, 2016, 10:41:16 am
Oh nice, it's Taffer Serif 20x20. I like it. Here's some pedantic stuff:
The / and \ accents looks a bit too long.
The circle on the å might look better if it was lowered a pixel.
The circle on the Å might look better if it was shifted to the left a pixel.
The ^ accents might look better if they were lowered a pixel, and I'm wondering if the ^ accent on them is too large.
Maybe make the "W" look more like a vertical mirror of the "M".
The "T" looks kind of small. Maybe some pixels should be added to the left and right side to make the top serifs thicker.
The "x" might look a bit slender compared to the other characters.
Some characters such as the "T" through "Z" are centered in the tile while others like "D" through "G" are aligned a bit more to the left. But maybe that's intentional.
Maybe the "M" & "N" would look better with their stems a bit farther apart.
Thank you kindly for the detailed critique. I've addressed everything you specified except for the centered characters, which I can't fix. When I find the time in the next few days I'll start working on the remaining three fonts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Remainder of the serif set (http://imgur.com/a/iZYiv)
Post by: Max™ on November 15, 2016, 02:42:13 pm
Post by: Taffer on November 15, 2016, 03:29:39 pm
Naturally Max likes. The bottom of the ô, the bottom right corner of the g, the top right of the §, the bars of the tile 153 are offset to the right, the lower left serif of the £ is kinda awkward, a lot thicker than the others, the bottom right of the Q above the stem might be intentional, same with the inner corner on the ? marks, looks great though.
Thank you for pointing out more problem areas! Let's hope this next iteration is the final one for the serif sets. I fixed everything you mentioned except for ? and its inverted cousin. Fortunately, there's a lot of shared tiles with the sans-serif set and a few shared tiles with Moscow and Blackletter, so hopefully the road ahead isn't too long.
(http://i.imgur.com/CeovILs.png)
20x20 serif set (http://imgur.com/a/h6vnY)
Post by: Max™ on November 15, 2016, 11:15:39 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/svLLTky.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/GFJGI90.png)
I can understand standardizing the bars, but man, I really liked the little square for the soldier dorfletters, since I like having the different soldier tiles with some unused tiles, though I like the elf ones as smaller squares.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: 0rion on November 21, 2016, 04:15:18 pm
By the way, the work is still great, thanks! :D
Post by: jecowa on November 21, 2016, 05:20:47 pm
This location kind of makes sense when you consider that half of Taffer users don't use Lazy Newb Packs. I would guess that most Taffer users who use Lazy Newb Packs would use the Taffer included with the pack, so this download would mostly be used by people who manually install their graphics packs. But then again, I don't think any of the LNPs include every single Taffer tileset.
Maybe a format that would work well for both manual installers and LNP users would be to put all the tilesets PNGs into /taffer v4.5/data/art/ folder then put a bunch of variations of the init.txt file into the /taffer v4.5/taffer/tilesets/* folders.
Post by: 0rion on November 21, 2016, 05:29:47 pm
All of the variations are located in like /taffer v4.5/taffer/tilesets/.
All I find in there are the variations with the regular dwarves, not the letters. For example taffer-4.5/taffer/tilesets/default_10x10/sans_serif/hollow_walls/straight_walls/data/art/taffer.png contains the regular dwarven figures, and all the variations are like this.
Post by: jecowa on November 21, 2016, 05:34:28 pm
Post by: Max™ on November 21, 2016, 09:18:35 pm
Post by: 0rion on November 22, 2016, 08:04:40 am
Oh, I see the problem. Use this repo: https://github.com/nc-z/taffer/tree/master/taffer/tilesets
Aaah, here they are! Thank you.
Post by: Nopal on November 23, 2016, 07:07:51 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2016, 11:23:21 am
Quote
Seems good, these holes are still bothering me though. Any way to edit the graphics to fill them up, or at the very least make them smaller?
Also, do I need dfhack to be able to see multiple z-levels below me, or can I get it to work in standalone?
Image:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No, there's nothing that can be done about the holes. The only way to completely fill them would be to make the walls the entire width of the tile, but that would be not only ugly but problematic: many tiles would become indistinguishable from each other. It's possible that TWBT could help resolve it, but I'm not interested in making my pack rely on DFHack (nor do I know if it can detect "inner walls"). For what it's worth, my "straight hollow walls" are probably the tileset where I notice it the least.
I'll try to widen the solid walls for the next release to minimize this problem.
Yes, you need DFHack to see multiple z-levels below you. You don't need a starter pack or anything to install it, but obviously you will need to be running a version it supports: ignore the init.txt and d_init.txt files in my pack along with the keybindings and make the appropriate changes to the old version yourself.
Quote
edited the dwarf icons as they were practically indistinguishable from humans. Pretty gud tileset otherwise.
(https://i.imgur.com/XQ4yvQb.png)
Thank you kindly. I like the pointy beards in particular. You're right, dwarves are almost identical to humans right now. There are alternate graphics files for you to use in my pack if you prefer, but I'll see what I can do about that by default: humans might become a little grumpier with the next release.
Post by: Taffer on December 10, 2016, 11:35:15 am
I agree with MaxTM the old soldier dorfletters desing looks better.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry, I should have responded sooner. I'm not really sure what to do about this: to be honest, I prefer the consistency of the new design to the old one, and the new soldier tile actually approaches something resembling a real letter (d with a diaeresis/umlaut isn't a real letter in unicode to my knowledge, but there are plenty of other consonents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)) with them). Dwarves, elves, and humans all have the same soldier diaereses now.
If I get more critique on the matter I'll probably reconsider. Thanks for the input!
Post by: Taffer on December 11, 2016, 04:33:17 pm
v4.6 has been partially committed on GitHub (http://github.com/nc-z/taffer). I don't anticipate finishing for a while yet, so I thought I'd at least post what I had so far for the impatient.
Work so far:
• the 20x serif sets have been properly "smoothed", and look much better (less blocky)
• solid walls have been widened everywhere, and the solid wall pillars have been reverted to what I had before. As a result of this change, some of the 20x sets are now an odd mix of smoothed tiles and unsmoothed tiles, so stick to the current release if you like the 20x series in anything but serif.
• tiles 211 and 221 have been fixed.
Work remaining:
• finish the rest of the 20x series.
Post by: DorfAnon on December 26, 2016, 07:16:10 pm
Also, on a side note, why did you make ramps not be triangles? Nothing big really, but it kinda bothers me on the map view when the higher mountains don't look as full as in the original ASCII. No idea if people prefer it as it is, I just always edit them myself to please muh autism.
Post by: Taffer on December 27, 2016, 12:10:04 am
Liking the new walls, they don't really take anything away and make the holes more bearable.
Also, on a side note, why did you make ramps not be triangles? Nothing big really, but it kinda bothers me on the map view when the higher mountains don't look as full as in the original ASCII. No idea if people prefer it as it is, I just always edit them myself to please muh autism.
Thank you kindly. I should probably find the time to finish the next release. The new double-sized tilesets are what's occupying my attention. I've done half of the gothic sets and all of the sans-serif and serif sets.
I'll see about revisiting the ramps, but this is something I'm uncertain about changing. The ramps aren't triangles because I've always disliked the triangles. The slopes shouldn't be important, they should fade into the background of a scene. I want to look at the goblins charging at my stupid, undefended fisherman, but my eyes are drawn instead to the slopes. On a whim I whittled them down a little to try to draw less attention to them and I've been quite pleased with the result. You may need to keep editing them yourself, but I'll see if I can find something better.
Post by: DorfAnon on December 27, 2016, 04:36:26 am
Thank you kindly. I should probably find the time to finish the next release. The new double-sized tilesets are what's occupying my attention. I've done half of the gothic sets and all of the sans-serif and serif sets.No need to change for me, it's a small edit and I see your point about making them less noticeable.
I'll see about revisiting the ramps, but this is something I'm uncertain about changing. The ramps aren't triangles because I've always disliked the triangles. The slopes shouldn't be important, they should fade into the background of a scene. I want to look at the goblins charging at my stupid, undefended fisherman, but my eyes are drawn instead to the slopes. On a whim I whittled them down a little to try to draw less attention to them and I've been quite pleased with the result. You may need to keep editing them yourself, but I'll see if I can find something better.
Post by: Taffer on January 08, 2017, 03:28:22 pm
Due to various frustrations in releasing this, I'm very tempted to drop support entirely for the blackletter sets, the alternate racial graphics, and the minitaffer sets. The blackletter tilesets make for a good font but the look isn't very cohesive and they can be hard to read. They didn't double well to 20x20 and I'm questioning whether I want to continue support for them. The alternate racial graphics and the minitaffer sets are in the same boat: I'm proud of them, but I want to simplify the download and ease maintenance going forward.
It doesn't help that I haven't seen any evidence of use for anything I just mentioned.
I'm somewhat tempted to abandon support for 20x20 even though I just redrew it all, but I'll leave well enough alone for now. People seem to like using them.
Post by: DorfAnon on January 08, 2017, 04:12:01 pm
Released 4.6. I lost track of all of the small fixes, but at least the 20x20 sets have been redrawn. As mentioned, the solid walls are thicker.
Due to various frustrations in releasing this, I'm very tempted to drop support entirely for the blackletter sets, the alternate racial graphics, and the minitaffer sets. The blackletter tilesets make for a good font but the look isn't very cohesive and they can be hard to read. They didn't double well to 20x20 and I'm questioning whether I want to continue support for them. The alternate racial graphics and the minitaffer sets are in the same boat: I'm proud of them, but I want to simplify the download and ease maintenance going forward.
It doesn't help that I haven't seen any evidence of use for anything I just mentioned.
I'm somewhat tempted to abandon support for 20x20 even though I just redrew it all, but I'll leave well enough alone for now. People seem to like using them.
I use the racial graphics, with some small editions to them. Tried the CLA graphics but I prefer yours more since I feel that it fits to the game more with the style you've got going. Though if no one else uses them then I can just continue to edit them in myself, so no biggie.
Also a small side-note, no idea how it is in this version, but on the last version the init files were really messy in normal notepad. Since you probably use another program you didn't notice, but it made navigating them in the windows default version a pain. No idea if you can make them more view-able in the future.
EDIT: messy in the sense that it lacked enters in-between all the brackets, so you had to scroll the text left-to-right to find all the brackets. I feel like I'm missing some vocabulary to explain myself properly, so hopefully you understand my meaning.
Post by: Vox Imperatoris on January 08, 2017, 04:19:50 pm
However, I'm having a problem with the racial graphics. Dwarves, elves, and kobolds show up with a black picture on a black background, instead of their proper colors.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do you know why this is? Have I done something wrong in the installation? I'm using your tileset with the "Mishka" color set by Vherid, but it happens with your colors, too.
Also, I can confirm that the .init files are messed up, with no line breaks. It's very annoying to read. A fix would be appreciated.
Post by: Taffer on January 08, 2017, 04:39:28 pm
Released 4.6. I lost track of all of the small fixes, but at least the 20x20 sets have been redrawn. As mentioned, the solid walls are thicker.
Due to various frustrations in releasing this, I'm very tempted to drop support entirely for the blackletter sets, the alternate racial graphics, and the minitaffer sets. The blackletter tilesets make for a good font but the look isn't very cohesive and they can be hard to read. They didn't double well to 20x20 and I'm questioning whether I want to continue support for them. The alternate racial graphics and the minitaffer sets are in the same boat: I'm proud of them, but I want to simplify the download and ease maintenance going forward.
It doesn't help that I haven't seen any evidence of use for anything I just mentioned.
I'm somewhat tempted to abandon support for 20x20 even though I just redrew it all, but I'll leave well enough alone for now. People seem to like using them.
I use the racial graphics, with some small editions to them. Tried the CLA graphics but I prefer yours more since I feel that it fits to the game more with the style you've got going. Though if no one else uses them then I can just continue to edit them in myself, so no biggie.
Also a small side-note, no idea how it is in this version, but on the last version the init files were really messy in normal notepad. Since you probably use another program you didn't notice, but it made navigating them in the windows default version a pain. No idea if you can make them more view-able in the future.
EDIT: messy in the sense that it lacked enters in-between all the brackets, so you had to scroll the text left-to-right to find all the brackets. I feel like I'm missing some vocabulary to explain myself properly, so hopefully you understand my meaning.
Thank you kindly for the feedback. I'm not getting rid of the racial graphics: I specifically meant the dwarven graphics inside the alternates folder.
The end-of-line "issue" is just the difference between Windows and Linux. You can use Notepad++, but enough people have complained about it that I'll switch the files over to using Windows line breaks for the next release.
I definitely like the 20x20 tilesets. A vast improvement over 10x10.
However, I'm having a problem with the racial graphics. Dwarves, elves, and kobolds show up with a black picture on a black background, instead of their proper colors.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do you know why this is? Have I done something wrong in the installation? I'm using your tileset with the "Mishka" color set by Vherid, but it happens with your colors, too.
Also, I can confirm that the .init files are messed up, with no line breaks. It's very annoying to read. A fix would be appreciated.
Thank you kindly for the feedback. I have no idea why that is happening, and it's very frustrating. I'll see if I can figure out what's going on: it might be something I misconfigured (but I didn't change the configuration since the last release), or a problem with GIMP (but I didn't update GIMP since the last release).
As mentioned, the init files are just the EOL difference between Windows and Linux. Apparently the Notepad maintainer at Windows is too much of an ass to consider making interoperability between Windows and Linux easier. I give in: the next release (soon, hopefully) will fix your issue and will have DOS line endings.
Post by: Vox Imperatoris on January 08, 2017, 04:53:01 pm
I guess I'll use a "dwarf letter" set for now!
Also, on alternate racial graphics: I kind of like the bearded dwarves. I've just been using the default, but I wouldn't object if one of those were made default.
Actually, it would be nice if they had pointy beards, like the 800x600 vanilla set.
Post by: Taffer on January 08, 2017, 05:32:11 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on January 08, 2017, 05:51:22 pm
Apologies, Vherid! I almost kept your variant, but I'll probably opt to update yours separately and split it into the release posts. I already did that for this version: the version of vherid_moscow in the graveyard is better than the version in the 4.5 release.
Post by: Max™ on January 08, 2017, 09:13:04 pm
Post by: Taffer on January 08, 2017, 09:30:52 pm
I can see the moscow/blackletter sets being perfect for someone making a really obscure mod at some point, because they do have a really lovely style, but I would hate to maintain them, so just leaving them available in here is a bro-move.
Moscow is still fully supported. I'm willing to pick up the slack again on the Blackletter sets, if people indicate that there's interest. Advice on the double-sized Blackletter sets would also help.
Not asking you to do so, just putting that out there in case anybody really is interested in them.
Also, on alternate racial graphics: I kind of like the bearded dwarves. I've just been using the default, but I wouldn't object if one of those were made default.
Actually, it would be nice if they had pointy beards, like the 800x600 vanilla set.
(https://i.imgur.com/xpOucod.png)
I won't make beards the default, but here's an alternate pointy-beard for you. As mentioned, the current release shouldn't have the racial graphics problem that you pointed out.
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 11:20:52 am
I can understand standardizing the bars, but man, I really liked the little square for the soldier dorfletters, since I like having the different soldier tiles with some unused tiles, though I like the elf ones as smaller squares.
I agree with MaxTM the old soldier dorfletters desing looks better.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm thinking of changing my mind on this, and I feel a little foolish that 'd̊' is actually a real letter, unlike my current offering. This invalidates much of my reasoning for keeping the current letter. I should probably have just listened to the criticism.
Is (https://i.imgur.com/MgD9wfP.png) a good compromise, or is (https://i.imgur.com/BU8ba73.png) better? Double-sized variant for both: (https://i.imgur.com/kfnJhgX.png)
EDIT: Hmm...I might be on to something going the opposite way and standardizing ((https://i.imgur.com/d1A79jO.png)) on the small square. I might not need feedback on this after all.
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 12:08:35 pm
Apologies for not waiting around for feedback, but I think this is an overall improvement and it addresses criticism I've already received in a way that keeps the tilesets and colour schemes visually consistent.
Post by: Max™ on January 10, 2017, 01:43:29 pm
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 01:49:15 pm
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Quote from: Max™
[CULL:SQUARE]
I'm getting such mixed messages. At any rate, glad that you seem happy about the new release.
Post by: Max™ on January 10, 2017, 02:21:56 pm
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 03:59:48 pm
Hey, you can't help the way you were raised, but if you gotta be square, do it right, and dorfletters are right.
I'm still confused by the "square tileset" hostility in the personal text, signature, and on 4chan, but thank you.
I made this for you:
(https://i.imgur.com/xljOmHP.png)
EDIT: and now I've just noticed that the diagonal hollow walls need attention. Damn, I thought I'd finished everything.
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 04:40:13 pm
Seriously, this ought to be the last release for some time unless I receive critique. If you've been absent and like reading changelogs, I've collected the recent madness below.
4.6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7320082#msg7320082)
4.7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7320192#msg7320192)
4.8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7321904#msg7321904) (pre hotfix)
Post by: Max™ on January 10, 2017, 09:13:37 pm
Post by: Taffer on January 10, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
It's just a humorous thing really, and I don't see the diagonal wall issues at all. >.<
I fixed them already, including the version I made for you. The 20x sets didn't tile well: there was a disjoint where some of the diagonals met with straight walls. While I was at it, I sharpened the inner corners for all (including 10x) diagonal walls, as it was blunt before. The idea had been to have the diagonal corners rounded like the normal corners, but it didn't look like I'd hoped.
Post by: Max™ on January 11, 2017, 01:06:10 am
Post by: feelotraveller on January 12, 2017, 10:18:49 pm
(Still addicted to the evil Myne but next CLA will make swapping even easier!)
Post by: Taffer on February 10, 2017, 03:06:14 pm
I might not have bothered with an actual release if I had some work on the horizon, but I don't.
Post by: Scorch on February 13, 2017, 02:08:40 am
The end-of-line "issue" is just the difference between Windows and Linux. You can use Notepad++, but enough people have complained about it that I'll switch the files over to using Windows line breaks for the next release.Oh, that explains it. For some reason windows had defaulted back to "notepad" instead of my preferred tool, notepad2. Irritating.
I also want to say that I exclusively use the 20x20 tilesets. I'm a little sad to see you've removed the Rawberry color set (it's my favorite, but maybe I'll try soyuz again...) but I've got it here so I suppose that's alright. So thank you for continuing to maintain your tilesets!
Post by: Taffer on February 13, 2017, 10:55:25 am
The end-of-line "issue" is just the difference between Windows and Linux. You can use Notepad++, but enough people have complained about it that I'll switch the files over to using Windows line breaks for the next release.Oh, that explains it. For some reason windows had defaulted back to "notepad" instead of my preferred tool, notepad2. Irritating.
I also want to say that I exclusively use the 20x20 tilesets. I'm a little sad to see you've removed the Rawberry color set (it's my favorite, but maybe I'll try soyuz again...) but I've got it here so I suppose that's alright. So thank you for continuing to maintain your tilesets!
Thank you for the kind words. You're welcome!
I've restored the Rawberry colours (https://github.com/nc-z/taffer). You can download it from there for now—including the new colour scheme preview—or just know that it'll be in the next release. (No plans at the moment, so likely after the next DF update).
Post by: Droggarth on May 19, 2017, 02:41:34 am
Also I yesterday compared in-game your new current default colors with your older and much brighter and muddier one which I still kinda like and I set the default DF's colors as a baseline to compare with and that's when I realized that your new color scheme puts less strain on one's eyes. That and I'm still able to tell colors apart due to my eagle-eyed ability to make a more diverse distinction between color hues and since my eyes have basically cave-adjusted I can see better in the dark.
To put it shortly, looking back, I can honestly say that some form of mental stress I had back then outweighed my ability to think clearly and calmly and I'm sorry about it all.
Post by: Taffer on May 23, 2017, 07:47:31 pm
Taffer, I am so sorry about my last reactions here last year as the issue I brought up is more than easy to fix/alter by copying or editing that color init file.
Also I yesterday compared in-game your new current default colors with your older and much brighter and muddier one which I still kinda like and I set the default DF's colors as a baseline to compare with and that's when I realized that your new color scheme puts less strain on one's eyes. That and I'm still able to tell colors apart due to my eagle-eyed ability to make a more diverse distinction between color hues and since my eyes have basically cave-adjusted I can see better in the dark.
To put it shortly, looking back, I can honestly say that some form of mental stress I had back then outweighed my ability to think clearly and calmly and I'm sorry about it all.
No worries, mate. Glad you're still enjoying the set.
Post by: Taffer on July 21, 2017, 05:04:35 pm
Contemplating an obvious (to me) diagonal wall improvement, that I should have contemplated years ago. The first image of every pair is the old style. Anybody willing to test? The hope is that it'll keep the aesthetic of the diagonal walls but fix some of the inevitable weirdness. The solid wall diagonals fare much better here (https://i.imgur.com/AxzuFzE.png), so only the hollow diagonals are shown.
(https://i.imgur.com/a93mBc3.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/erTz5Hi.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IX64V33.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GXSWiSE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/78uhOtG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iMb5XN5.png)
The tileset:
(https://i.imgur.com/AqabHvY.png) (https://i.imgur.com/vihdjvO.png)
Post by: Taffer on July 21, 2017, 07:42:08 pm
Looks pretty damn good, I must say. It actually looks like something dwarves might have made, unlike the jagged edges everywhere in the old version.
(https://i.imgur.com/76wEk28.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QOe9xsd.png)
The rooms in these screenshots also look much better. There's a lot more whitespace in the "solid wall" areas than there is in the original, but as I already mentioned this should mostly only affect the arena, not gameplay. (Even then, it's still obvious to me where the rooms are).
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9UxtPO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AN5CgB6.png)
The random pillars in the third setting are also actually functional looking, unlike the chaos in the older version.
(https://i.imgur.com/XNsyldD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DCdVhk9.png)
I'd just like to share my happiness that octagonal rooms are now possible.
(https://i.imgur.com/33HuIlQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/bCEjs7x.png)
The only downside that I've discovered is that the fortifications look a little off. Absolutely worth it, in my opinion.
(https://i.imgur.com/rRt7woy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IZ3Mvza.png)
I hope you enjoyed the "tour", and please consider testing! I haven't played Dwarf Fortress for a few months now, and I'm currently more interested in finishing my todo list for Revised (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161832.0) than I'm interested in seeing what effect this has on non-wall tiles. I'm very happy with the changes from what I can see in the arena, however. I might actually play with diagonal walls on for once.
(https://i.imgur.com/b5Bbvti.png)(https://i.imgur.com/a7NxxX2.png)
Oh, and I did consider making the solid fortifications hollow (https://i.imgur.com/PAtKZMs.png). It didn't go well (https://i.imgur.com/LCHORWj.png).
Post by: daagar on July 31, 2017, 09:29:02 pm
Post by: Taffer on August 01, 2017, 12:52:06 am
A bit too small of a tileset for me personally (at least when on a 1920x1080 screen), but I _love_ the hollow-wall stuff with the improved diagonals - I didn't realize anything was wrong with them before until you showed how they should really be! Might go back to playing on a laptop just to enjoy this set.
Thank you kindly for the feedback! I'll see about changing all of my tilesets over so I can have a proper release soon with the diagonal wall changes.
There's also the 20x20 version of my sets, but that might be too big. I also play on 1920x1080, but personally anything bigger than 10x10 bothers me.
Post by: Taffer on August 01, 2017, 04:17:31 pm
Oh, and I deleted the DFFD mirror for ease of maintenance and moved from GitHub to GitLab. Most users aren't likely to care or even notice and nobody but me was contributing or opening issues anyways. I know that GitHub is the "cool place" to hang out and that nobody (by comparison) uses GitLab, but I much prefer it.
• I can have several private repositories for DF projects,
• I prefer the interface,
• I prefer the Terms of Service, and
• GitLab's core is open source, unlike GitHub.
The GitHub repository will be deleted as soon as the Starter Pack has been fixed to pull from GitLab.
Post by: Reverie on September 12, 2017, 10:46:09 am
v4.5 (Lazy Mac Pack), working as intended:
(http://i.imgur.com/JMVyvgX.png)
v4.9, not playing nice:
(http://i.imgur.com/J5QPfeR.png)
If anyone wants a fix in the meanwhile, open the tileset png in GIMP or Photoshop, select Image>Mode>RGB and then save :-)
Post by: Taffer on September 12, 2017, 07:59:10 pm
Taffer, just a heads-up that the tileset pngs are improperly indexed.
v4.5 (Lazy Mac Pack), working as intended:
...
v4.9, not playing nice:
...
If anyone wants a fix in the meanwhile, open the tileset png in GIMP or Photoshop, select Image>Mode>RGB and then save :-)
Thanks for the heads up! I should have guessed that running optipng on the images would yield problems in Mac (and maybe Linux). Everything tests fine in Windows, although it might be the PRINT_MODE I'm using or that I don't use dfhack.
Unless you have a solution, I'll save everything as RGB again to fix this.
Post by: Taffer on September 12, 2017, 10:50:13 pm
I also converted everything to RGB for now, and removed transparency from all images for maximum compatibility.
Another release will probably arrive in the next while: a tile or two has my eye.
Taffer, just a heads-up that the tileset pngs are improperly indexed.
Would you kindly test the below tileset? I'm still hoping to get everything indexed again for v5.1. Hopefully removing the transparency solved the issue you posted. Version 5.0 is all in RGB, but this one is shrunk to indexed using optipng.
(https://i.imgur.com/zD7Z40E.png)
Post by: Reverie on September 13, 2017, 03:33:32 am
Would you kindly test the below tileset? I'm still hoping to get everything indexed again for v5.1. Hopefully removing the transparency solved the issue you posted. Version 5.0 is all in RGB, but this one is shrunk to indexed using optipng.
I can confirm that it works in 2D mode, without DFHack (tiles with background colours display correctly, e.g. leftmost pane) :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Taffer
...although it might be the PRINT_MODE I'm using or that I don't use dfhack.
Having tested with and without DFHack, I've narrowed down the issue to just the png specifically, so no worries there :p
Feel free to tweak your optipng settings and send over more if you'd like, I can channel my inner lab rat :-)
Post by: Taffer on September 13, 2017, 07:41:48 am
I've lightened the border stippling on the digging designation/border tile to #dadada. To my eyes, it was still useful as a digging designation but stood out less in the intro movie and in the game border.
I can confirm that it works in 2D mode, without DFHack (tiles with background colours display correctly, e.g. leftmost pane) :
...
Having tested with and without DFHack, I've narrowed down the issue to just the png specifically, so no worries there :p
Feel free to tweak your optipng settings and send over more if you'd like, I can channel my inner lab rat :-)
Thank you kindly for the testing! You already tested optipng on maximum settings, and pngquant works better for ordinary images than it does for tilesets, so there's nothing more to test.
Post by: Reverie on September 13, 2017, 07:44:42 am
Post by: 0rion on October 03, 2017, 02:25:53 pm
And your diagonal walls from this summer are really good.
Post by: Taffer on October 10, 2017, 09:27:38 am
Hey, just passing by, as I do every once in a while. Your tileset is really the best; let me tell you that every time I enter one of my DF periods, the first thing I do is installing Taffer's tileset :)
And your diagonal walls from this summer are really good.
Thank you kindly! It's nice to get some feedback on the diagonal walls. People don't seem to update my tilesets in between DF versions, so I wasn't sure how many people are even using my new version.
Post by: 0rion on October 10, 2017, 01:45:22 pm
(https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/892850Fortress1.png) (https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/610471Fortress2.png)
I use the vanilla colours. I prefer Taffer of Dawnbringer colours, but I do not want to forget the real color in order to be able to quickly identifying things on screenshots taken by others (at least that's the idea).
The pool of blood near the bridge is due to a weregoat having killed three fisherdwarves.
Post by: Taffer on October 16, 2017, 02:26:50 pm
Here are two screenshots of a new fortress (level 0 & 1).
Thank you kindly for the screenshots, 0rion! I always enjoy seeing them. Damn those weregoats!
I haven't tried an entrance like that before, I should.
Post by: 0rion on October 17, 2017, 12:30:23 pm
I haven't tried an entrance like that before, I should.
It's not very secure because if unfortunately an invader gets past this bridge, it gets to the central stairway almost immediately. Because the embark is small, the risk is even greater for that to happen. But well, I wanted a single tower emerging from the tress for this fortress so I took that risk.
Post by: feelotraveller on October 20, 2017, 08:19:37 pm
It's nice to get some feedback on the diagonal walls.
The redone diagonal walls (hollow version) recently pushed me over the line to give your set a try - that's how much I like them. :) Will give some more feedback after playing for a while (but don't hold your breath...).
Post by: Taffer on November 24, 2017, 12:46:55 pm
Post by: Taffer on November 24, 2017, 07:46:43 pm
Post by: rmblr on November 25, 2017, 10:02:31 am
One customization I'd like to make is to make the floor symbol (≈) for soils (and sand) something less eye-catching. When you're building forts in soils it is quite a pain to constantly look at. Is there an easy way to customize this?
Post by: Taffer on November 25, 2017, 04:21:20 pm
Love your set Taffer, been using it for years.
Thank you kindly!
Love your set Taffer, been using it for years.What do you mean? Can you tell me what you think of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7174301#msg7174301) post of mine? I already put a lot of thought into the ≈ tile, and I'm not certain I could improve what I have. The tile I ended up going with was the least eye-catching of the three depicted there.
One customization I'd like to make is to make the floor symbol (≈) for soils (and sand) something less eye-catching. When you're building forts in soils it is quite a pain to constantly look at. Is there an easy way to customize this?
There's also these (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg6805421#msg6805421) changes, if you think they'd help.
Post by: jecowa on December 30, 2017, 04:30:38 am
Spoiler: It this Taffer? (click to show/hide)
Dambros666 was asking (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/7mql6g/biweekly_df_questions_thread/drwbd72/) what the tileset used in that screenshot. It looks a bit like the 4chan smooth edition of Taffer 20x20. I'm not sure about the color palette.
Post by: Taffer on December 30, 2017, 08:15:16 am
Spoiler: It this Taffer? (click to show/hide)
Dambros666 was asking (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/7mql6g/biweekly_df_questions_thread/drwbd72/) what the tileset used in that screenshot. It looks a bit like the 4chan smooth edition of Taffer 20x20. I'm not sure about the color palette.
Yes, it's an older version of a 20x20 set, one of the scaler doubled versions that had so many stray pixels I gave up on fixing them and started from scratch. There were scaler doubled versions of all of the serif and sans serif, the "4chan" version was just the one that 4channers were sharing long after I gave up on the scaler variants. None of my tileset had custom pillars then.
Color set looks like Vherid Warm, but that's just a guess.
Post by: Vherid on December 30, 2017, 01:57:32 pm
Post by: Iliithid on December 30, 2017, 05:55:09 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 30, 2017, 09:15:58 pm
Huge fan of your work Taffer…
Thank you kindly! It brings a smile to my face, knowing I haven't toiled and obsessed in vain. I'll be fixing up my work more after I'm done with my Revised update, although when that will be done I won't speculate.
…was curious if you'd thought about doing engraved (obscured) walls in the style that (I think) Phoebus/Ironhand does it, with squiggles inside the hollow walls? Makes for a cleaning viewing experience than the standard blocky white situation. Otherwise no complaints from me, your sets are the only way I've played for years.
…are you a wizard? Nobody's ever before asked that to my recollection, and now's the first time I'm making one that I feel good enough about to finish. I'll preview my next tileset after such a nice message. This is still very early stages and I can be very obsessive about tilesets, so take this with a big pinch of salt. I dislike previewing my random experiments and I've barely started polishing this one. I'm damn proud so far, though (perhaps not of the font itself, but you'll see).
I'm making an arabic inspired tileset. I felt inspired after watching a video about the Alhambra. One of the best parts of an arabic inspired tileset is that I can include random little dots everywhere and have it be a theme of the tileset, bringing things much closer to a "graphical" tileset without sacrificing ASCII purity. Of course readability will suffer, but having little dots around the punctuation marks (for example) will (ideally) make sense in context of the font.
(https://i.imgur.com/cwGneMs.png)
The patterned walls and added noise to the punctuation really fills in the walls and the floors, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how great I think the ground looks.
(https://i.imgur.com/gyW6Fdx.png)
Showing off the fortifications, mostly: probably the best fortifications of any of my new diagonal tilesets.
(https://i.imgur.com/QFdTZJY.png)
Wouldn't be an arabic inspired tileset without an attempt at nice geometric patterns. This is probably my first tileset that makes me want to build huge, solid chunks of wall. Also an opportunity to remind everyone of how well the new diagonal walls look (for all of my sets).
(https://i.imgur.com/vkmAKU2.png)
This one's mostly included because of the # grates: IMO it looks great in this shot. This is probably one of the weakest elements in my current tilesets, so it's one of the tiles I'll be fixing in all my tilesets after the Revised update.
(https://i.imgur.com/FXHgini.png)
And finally, the biggest reason why this won't be done anytime soon. While serviceable and (IMO) vaguely arabic, it hardly looks like calligraphy. Heavy works need to be done and I'm not sure how to proceed here. Make letters ornate and don't worry about making it look too much like calligraphy? Make it look like calligraphy yet still somehow be readable? Who knows. Honestly, the rest of my tileset had an existing bitmap font as their basis (and I drew the missing letters from the set), but I haven't found a single arabic inspired bitmap tileset anywhere. I looked. Hell, I didn't even find much arabic bitmap fonts, let alone the fancy arabic inspired look I'm going for.
Hope that interests you? It'll only come as a diagonal wall set and there's no way in hell I'm redrawing it in 20x20, so people will have to settle for a blocky doubled version of the 10x10 tileset.
EDIT: I've improved on the font (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7656089#msg7656089).
Post by: Iliithid on December 30, 2017, 09:46:57 pm
Post by: Vherid on December 30, 2017, 11:05:34 pm
Post by: jecowa on December 30, 2017, 11:10:12 pm
Are those smooth or engraved walls in the screenshots?
Anyway, can't wait for the 20x20 version :P
Spoiler: You know you want to make it. (click to show/hide)
I was trying to figure out tile magic engraved walls, but seem to have gotten it backwards.
Spoiler: wrong walls look engraved (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taffer on December 30, 2017, 11:24:16 pm
Are those smooth or engraved walls in the screenshots?
Smooth walls. Just the object testing arena. Engraved walls start unobscured by default so you can actually see what's been engraved, just as Armok intended.
Anyway, can't wait for the 20x20 version :PSpoiler: You know you want to make it. (click to show/hide)
Most definitely do not want to make it. Honestly, if I had my way I'd stop supporting the graphics set and switch entirely to dwarf letters, stop supporting 20x20 sets or just double them crudely, and stop supporting the "straight" wall variants for all sets. But then nobody would download my tilesets anymore, which is no fun. The whole point of art is to be enjoyed.
I was trying to figure out tile magic engraved walls, but seem to have gotten it backwards.Spoiler: wrong walls look engraved (click to show/hide)
Too much of a purist to use tile magic: I tried tile magic in 2012 or 2013 to save the barrel graphic, before I started becoming an "ASCII purist". It doesn't work well with color schemes that have non-pure-black backgrounds. I suppose it works reasonably better now that most of my color schemes have almost-black blacks, but there's still a color difference there in your image (#020202 for blackness around walls, #070707 for blackness everywhere else) and that gets more noticeable with Tocky's colors or any of Vherid's colors.
I'm still curious to see what you come up with, though!
EDIT: seriously though, nice job with the quick doubled version. I'd love it if you looked over the 20x20 sets and improved them. They're still far from perfect, IMO.
Post by: Taffer on December 31, 2017, 12:59:37 am
(https://i.imgur.com/iFWB9jm.png)
(For the rest of the preview, see this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7655994#msg7655994)).
Post by: jecowa on December 31, 2017, 02:33:49 am
I felt so embarrassed about my earlier font showing that I just whipped this up. Still needs work, but much better. Perhaps this will be finished sooner than I'd expected.
(https://i.imgur.com/iFWB9jm.png)
(For the rest of the preview, see this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7655994#msg7655994)).
That's better. It looks a lot more foreign now. Doesn't look a bit English at first glance. :P
You have a Moscow font and used to have a Berlin. Might be nice to keep to the theme and name it after some Arab city (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_in_the_Arab_world).
Most definitely do not want to make it. Honestly, if I had my way I'd stop supporting the graphics set and switch entirely to dwarf letters, stop supporting 20x20 sets or just double them crudely, and stop supporting the "straight" wall variants for all sets. But then nobody would download my tilesets anymore, which is no fun. The whole point of art is to be enjoyed.
Diagonal walls are a little confusing to use. (I have trouble digging with straight walls as it is.) Diagonal walls look really nice with a design that complements them, though. I would guess a lot of people don't want to take the effort to learn to a design for them.
Too much of a purist to use tile magic: I tried tile magic in 2012 or 2013 to save the barrel graphic, before I started becoming an "ASCII purist". It doesn't work well with color schemes that have non-pure-black backgrounds. I suppose it works reasonably better now that most of my color schemes have almost-black blacks, but there's still a color difference there in your image (#020202 for blackness around walls, #070707 for blackness everywhere else) and that gets more noticeable with Tocky's colors or any of Vherid's colors.
I'm still curious to see what you come up with, though!
I adjusted the color until it matched, but it probably won't look right with any other wall material.
(https://i.imgur.com/H4M6dC2.png)
The colors probably still need some work.
Spoiler: engraved tilesheet (click to show/hide)
EDIT: seriously though, nice job with the quick doubled version. I'd love it if you looked over the 20x20 sets and improved them. They're still far from perfect, IMO.
I didn't edit a full tilesheet; I just edited the ones in your screenshot and copy-pasted them everywhere. And I ignored all the floor tiles since they looked okay already. It was easy to make stuff lineup when I could see them next to tiles that they normally appear next to.
Spoiler: some 20x sans-serif edit suggestions: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: edited 20x dwarf sans hollow straight (click to show/hide)
Post by: CLA on December 31, 2017, 08:09:16 am
[N]ow's the first time I'm making [engraving graphics] that I feel good enough about to finish.I don't think I'll ever reach that point. Yours are really interesting though. And what you're doing with the font is super interesting.
If you watched a video about Alhambra, you really should check out MC Escher's work inspired by it (and possibly tesselation in general).
Post by: Meph on December 31, 2017, 08:19:18 am
Post by: Taffer on December 31, 2017, 12:49:29 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/EdMSsOR.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/OzyiMDw.gif)
Tough decisions, possibly big changes.
Spoiler: some 20x sans-serif edit suggestions: (click to show/hide)Spoiler: edited 20x dwarf sans hollow straight (click to show/hide)
Thank you kindly! I like these changes. It'll help me clean up the 20x20 sets later on.
I don't think I'll ever reach that point. Yours are really interesting though. And what you're doing with the font is super interesting.
If you watched a video about Alhambra, you really should check out MC Escher's work inspired by it (and possibly tesselation in general).
Thank you kindly for the Escher recommendation! His work is interesting.
Just wanted to say that these screenshots look amazing. So much intricate detail, yet still ascii.
Thank you! Intricate is the goal!
Post by: Meph on December 31, 2017, 12:53:02 pm
Post by: CLA on December 31, 2017, 01:48:17 pm
HaterSkaters Duerer set has MC Escher-inspired stairs, in case you want to see an example for DF.I was hoping his tesselation work (especially the "regular divisions of planes") is of more interest than his perspective-/mindfuckery he did. IIRC the "divisions" were directly inspired by the alhambra tiles.
Post by: jecowa on December 31, 2017, 02:23:17 pm
Spoiler: Also what are these end pieces called? (click to show/hide)
Post by: CLA on December 31, 2017, 03:27:40 pm
Also what are these end pieces called?Yes, Columns. Usually the tile for uppercase O, for reference.
Post by: Iliithid on December 31, 2017, 05:33:20 pm
Post by: Taffer on December 31, 2017, 05:49:26 pm
Diagonal walls are a little confusing to use. (I have trouble digging with straight walls as it is.) Diagonal walls look really nice with a design that complements them, though. I would guess a lot of people don't want to take the effort to learn to a design for them.
Sorry, I'd love to revisit this. Mind if I ask why you find diagonal walls confusing? Are they still confusing with the new version? (As in, current downloads of my set). The screenshots I've posted of the arabic tileset are all diagonal walls, and most of the rooms still look square to me. It also doesn't affect digging, only smoothed walls and existing sites.
Most diagonal walls—including my own until recently—make traditional designs look terrible, but I believe that I've fixed that. I don't think adventure mode buildings look bad, honestly.
I ask because I'd actually love to abandon the straight wall variants and I don't think it's that crazy an idea, now that the diagonal walls still have sane looking rooms.
All of this work has been powerfully good and I cannot wait to see what the finished product ends up being like. Until then I'll just dream that Moscow Hollow is this fancy.
The interest this generated has convinced me to turn Moscow into a more esoteric set, keeping serif and sans-serif sets as simple sets. It won't be ornate like the arabic one, but I'll take more chances with it.
Post by: jecowa on December 31, 2017, 09:41:22 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/HjG7OB9.png)
They look really futuristic, like a lunar base.
Spoiler: straight walls (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: old diagonal walls (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: rough-hewn walls (click to show/hide)
It was a little confusing designating the new bit to the west, but not any more confusing than with straight walls. I think I'd like to try diagonal walls out some more.
Post by: jecowa on January 01, 2018, 06:10:04 am
Spoiler: screenshot (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: tilesheet (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on January 08, 2018, 02:15:08 pm
Post by: jecowa on January 08, 2018, 03:37:03 pm
Spoiler: diagonal (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: straight (click to show/hide)
Post by: Max™ on January 08, 2018, 06:21:34 pm
Post by: feelotraveller on January 12, 2018, 12:55:54 am
And a little feedback - I'm very much enjoying Sans 10px Hollow Diagonal, rounded out with CLA graphics. ;)
Post by: Pvt. Pirate on January 15, 2018, 11:56:04 am
Post by: Grimlocke on February 23, 2018, 10:44:52 am
Post by: Taffer on March 01, 2018, 10:07:18 pm
I hate the doubled, smoothed tilesets. I'll be shuffling them to the graveyard, and moving that onto my personal server (pew-pew-lasers.ca) to keep imgur from deleting them. Sorry. Knowing I have to update them is keeping me from drawing. I just hate playing and drawing in 20x20, even on the Retina screens I've tried.
Simple boxy doubled versions will be in their place, as that means I never have to draw them. The hammer is falling. Speak up if this bothers you or if you want me to support something after all (perhaps there's more "straight solid wall" fans than I expected).
I'm also hoping to whittle down on the number of tilesets. Only "dwarf graphic" and "dwarf letter" variants for the artistic sets like the upcoming arabic set (and soon the russian set, which will be made more interesting). I might take the blackletter variant out of the graveyard and polish it up for that category, knowing I don't have to make it work in 20x20. I'll probably keep only the diagonal solid wall and hollow straight walls for my two ASCII sets, in addition to the usual "dwarf letter" variants of both. Diagonal hollow looks a little silly, and the straight solid walls are IMO strictly inferior to the diagonal solid walls.
On the plus side, by my count, this will bring the total number of tilesets I need to maintain down to 10 from the current 48. (The boxy double versions would be done by a script). Less to maintain means more updates and possibly more art.
Post by: jecowa on March 02, 2018, 01:11:45 am
I think it's kind of too bad losing the redrawn 20x20 versions of Serif and Sans-Serif. I'm guessing 20x20 users would prefer out-of-date 20x20 versions with smoothed edges over upscaled versions of the latest versions of the 10x10 originals. I think upscales are fine for the more artsy ones (i.e. Moscow, Blacletter, and the new one) since those would be crazy to redraw.
I'm excited for the arabic-style tileset. I like its walls.
Post by: Taffer on March 02, 2018, 03:13:06 pm
I think it's kind of too bad losing the redrawn 20x20 versions of Serif and Sans-Serif. I'm guessing 20x20 users would prefer out-of-date 20x20 versions with smoothed edges over upscaled versions of the latest versions of the 10x10 originals.
OK. After some thought, I'll support the ASCII sets at 20x20, but not the artistic sets.
Post by: Taffer on March 02, 2018, 03:23:16 pm
I'm excited for the arabic-style tileset. I like its walls.
Soon, hopefully. It's mostly done, it just needs a few hours of polish at this point. I'm still holding out on finishing my big Revised update first. I have 9 descriptions left in creature_tropical_new and 20 or so in creature_subterranean, but then it's clear sailing. I have a lengthy todo list but I'm quick on the command line with grep and quick text replacements, so I don't expect most of it to take long. It honestly took me twice as long to write one description than it did to grammar check every description for gender mistakes with a few quick searches. Plus, most of the big ticket items on the todo list have been punted over to my next Revised release.
I'm still hoping to do lots of editing on them, but I'm much, much faster at editing than I have been at writing. I love reading Paulo Coelho and Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, and my translations of the The Little Prince and The Alchemist have an almost childlike quality to the prose that I keep wanting to mimic (poorly). Lots of mass simplifications of words in my GitLab history. I'm not always sure how far to go with it, but it's fun to think about. (Can easily replace feline with cat and it works in all cases, but apparently the same can't be done with canine to dog, because nobody likes to call wolves dogs for arbitrary reasons. Go figure).
Anyways. Rambling aside, this should all be happening much sooner than expected. Once I start drawing tilesets or editing Revised I quickly get engrossed in the task, but writing these formulaic descriptions has really worn me down, and I've been determined to finish that first. Thankfully I'm in the last stretch now.
I didn't think diagonal hollow looked silly.
Well it does look futuristic. I'm considering fattening the lines, which might help, but it might be best to let it be and keep the diagonal walls for the artistic and solid wall sets.
Post by: jecowa on March 02, 2018, 07:19:49 pm
Well it does look futuristic.Yeah, it reminds me of a the maps in the original Doom.
I'm considering fattening the lines, which might help, …Yeah, I think the thin walls might give it a vector look, so thickening them might change that.
… but it might be best to let it be and keep the diagonal walls for the artistic and solid wall sets.Yeah, that sounds good. One less wall option will help the indecisive.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 02, 2018, 08:08:47 pm
Thank you kindly for the input! I double posted while editing, so the rest will follow below.Does that include the Dwarf Letters versions too?I think it's kind of too bad losing the redrawn 20x20 versions of Serif and Sans-Serif. I'm guessing 20x20 users would prefer out-of-date 20x20 versions with smoothed edges over upscaled versions of the latest versions of the 10x10 originals.
OK. After some thought, I'll support the ASCII sets at 20x20, but not the artistic sets.
I only ever play with your 20x20 Dwarf Letter Tilesets. Thank you for continuing to support 20x20.
What resolution do you play at by the way? I just can't read the text at 10x10, it's so small on my monitor. Even setting the resolution down a few notches. I guess there's something fundamental I'm not understanding about resolutions somewhere.
Post by: Taffer on March 02, 2018, 08:49:54 pm
Does that include the Dwarf Letters versions too?
I only ever play with your 20x20 Dwarf Letter Tilesets. Thank you for continuing to support 20x20.
You're welcome. That includes the dwarf letters, yes. I prefer playing that way myself.
What resolution do you play at by the way? I just can't read the text at 10x10, it's so small on my monitor. Even setting the resolution down a few notches. I guess there's something fundamental I'm not understanding about resolutions somewhere.
1920x1080, currently on both a big wall-mounted TV and on a desktop. The TV is rough reading on default scaling settings in Windows, but at 175% I can play perfectly fine. That's what the scaling slider is there for. Not sure there's something fundamental to misunderstand here. My eyesight is normal. I don't know. I was reluctant to create the 20x20 sets at first because I thought it was so big nobody would use it, and I've been surprised by their popularity ever since.
It's not just resolution, it's also how physically big the screen is and how far it is from your eyes. I've played Dwarf Fortress on a 4K display already and still found 10x10 comfy. I just like seeing everything at once, and I like tiny bitmap fonts. I want a heaven's eye view of the action.
Mini side rant about new displays that I typed and almost deleted, then decided to keep because why not:
Sometimes I see talk that 10x10 will be outdated because monitor resolutions will keep getting higher and higher, but new 4K monitors already display at a resolution high enough that you literally wouldn't get any benefit from a higher resolution. It's why Apple displays are called "Retina" displays. There's already articles (https://www.techspot.com/article/1113-4k-monitor-see-difference/) pointing out that the jump to 4K doesn't actually make a difference for some monitor setups, and that's only going to get worse if there's another big resolution jump. It also breaks everyone's icons, interfaces, and game graphics, and vector icons are a lousy solution (http://www.pushing-pixels.org/2011/11/04/about-those-vector-icons.html).
This whole post makes me excited to buy a 4K screen because, if my math is correct, I could fit an entire 4x4 embark in one 1920x1920 window using a 10x10 tileset.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 02, 2018, 10:29:23 pm
Windows scaler at 125% seems to work with everything except DF. Everything gets cut off the screen until I switch it to 100%. That's why I said I must be misunderstanding something. Some setting which makes DF work with the scaler.
Post by: jecowa on March 02, 2018, 11:25:15 pm
What resolution do you play at by the way? I just can't read the text at 10x10, it's so small on my monitor. Even setting the resolution down a few notches. I guess there's something fundamental I'm not understanding about resolutions somewhere.
I've been playing on my 1280x800 laptop. Using a 10x10 tileset on this is similar in scale to using a 16x16 tileset on a 1080p display. I think 1280x800 is about the largest resolution I would want to use with a 10x10 tileset.
A year ago I would play on my 1680x1050 desktop. On this I preferred 20x20 tilesets. A 20x20 tileset is just about the largest you can use on a 1680x1050 display. It is similar to using a 24x24 tileset on a 1080p display.
I would guess that 10x10 Taffer users are not any more likely to use lower resolutions than most Dwarf Fortress players, though.
Sometimes I see talk that 10x10 will be outdated because monitor resolutions will keep getting higher and higher, but new 4K monitors already display at a resolution high enough that you literally wouldn't get any benefit from a higher resolution. It's why Apple displays are called "Retina" displays.
Just thought you might be interested, in the case of Apple's Retina displays, Dwarf Fortress does not take advantage of them unless you either force your screen into native mode (which has a downside if making everything tiny) or you edit the DF init.txt full-screen resolution to match your native resort (which has a downside of only using Retina resolution in Dwarf Fortress' full-screen mode). So most Retina Mac users are probably be going to be playing Dwarf Fortress 2x nearest-neaghbor scaled. So 13-inch MacBook Pro users are basically at 1280 instead of 2560 and 15-inch are at 1440 instead of 2880.
Post by: Taffer on March 03, 2018, 01:28:35 pm
I play on a laptop. 1920x1080.
Windows scaler at 125% seems to work with everything except DF. Everything gets cut off the screen until I switch it to 100%. That's why I said I must be misunderstanding something. Some setting which makes DF work with the scaler.
Not sure. Sorry I can't help. The default settings (as set by my tileset, at least) work fine for me on an AMD system.
Just thought you might be interested, in the case of Apple's Retina displays, Dwarf Fortress does not take advantage of them unless you either force your screen into native mode (which has a downside if making everything tiny) or you edit the DF init.txt full-screen resolution to match your native resort (which has a downside of only using Retina resolution in Dwarf Fortress' full-screen mode). So most Retina Mac users are probably be going to be playing Dwarf Fortress 2x nearest-neaghbor scaled. So 13-inch MacBook Pro users are basically at 1280 instead of 2560 and 15-inch are at 1440 instead of 2880.
Oh, good show on Apple's part. That's the way it should be: keep compatibility with old applications going forward. It does make me wonder if it's worth me maintaining 20x20 sets or just generating them.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 03, 2018, 05:51:49 pm
That's fine, I don't need help. It's something about my laptop that I'll either figure out or won't. But in the meantime, I'll keep using your 20x20 sets.I play on a laptop. 1920x1080.
Windows scaler at 125% seems to work with everything except DF. Everything gets cut off the screen until I switch it to 100%. That's why I said I must be misunderstanding something. Some setting which makes DF work with the scaler.
Not sure. Sorry I can't help. The default settings (as set by my tileset, at least) work fine for me on an AMD system.
Post by: jecowa on March 03, 2018, 06:18:46 pm
That's fine, I don't need help. It's something about my laptop that I'll either figure out or won't. But in the meantime, I'll keep using your 20x20 sets.I play on a laptop. 1920x1080.
Windows scaler at 125% seems to work with everything except DF. Everything gets cut off the screen until I switch it to 100%. That's why I said I must be misunderstanding something. Some setting which makes DF work with the scaler.
Not sure. Sorry I can't help. The default settings (as set by my tileset, at least) work fine for me on an AMD system.
You might try changing your Print Mode to see if that helps. (Switch to "2D" if using "STANDARD" or switch to "STANDARD" if using "2D".) That's the only thing I can think of that could possibly help with this issue.
Post by: squamous on March 06, 2018, 04:48:57 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 09, 2018, 10:38:56 pm
Taffer, do you mind if I use your Pastel color scheme for a mod I have published? I feel like it would fit the aesthetic nicely. Here is the mod if you want to check it out: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13542
Go right ahead! Just give me a mention somewhere, please! I'm glad you like it. I'll be updating most of the color schemes in my next big Taffer release slightly: the blacks will be lightened again. Do check back from time to time to see if I've changed the color scheme, so that you can grab the newest one. Cheers!
Post by: squamous on March 10, 2018, 02:18:54 pm
Updated for v0.44.06. The keybindings needed to be updated, along with the usual trivial, textual changes to the init files. I removed the Rawberry colors because I've been wanting to simplify the download and I never use them lately. I might get rid of the Taffer colors as well, not sure. I haven't used that in ages either.Taffer, do you mind if I use your Pastel color scheme for a mod I have published? I feel like it would fit the aesthetic nicely. Here is the mod if you want to check it out: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13542
Go right ahead! Just give me a mention somewhere, please! I'm glad you like it. I'll be updating most of the color schemes in my next big Taffer release slightly: the blacks will be lightened again. Do check back from time to time to see if I've changed the color scheme, so that you can grab the newest one. Cheers!
Ok, thank you!
Post by: Taffer on March 12, 2018, 11:00:13 pm
I've finally finished an initial rewrite of every creature description in the game for Revised (https://gitlab.com/spiral-king/df-revised) and, as promised, I've already blown through my entire todo list for editing them. Give me a day or two to finish the release, and then I'll get back to drawing after that before continuing with Revised.
Post by: Taffer on March 14, 2018, 10:17:21 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/viiUN5W.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IY5mhEh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/X9xsQ1o.png)
EDIT: Will redo the font to be more legible.
Post by: Taffer on March 21, 2018, 10:52:12 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/pshHG9R.gif)
Attempt to clean up the font, make it more readable, and keep the style I was hoping for. Subtle—and probably won't convince anybody that this font is legible—but there's a solid improvement there.
(https://i.imgur.com/B0w4ghW.gif)
Burn the whole tileset to the ground and need to redraw everything to match new italic font. Contemplate getting rid of line connecting the letters, then flip the desk because nothing I'm doing fits thematically or artistically with my nice walls and existing work.
Post by: Taffer on March 30, 2018, 11:10:16 am
1920x1080, currently on both a big wall-mounted TV and on a desktop. The TV is rough reading on default scaling settings in Windows, but at 175% I can play perfectly fine. That's what the scaling slider is there for.
Well, I spoke too soon. I finally finished banishing Windows from the rest of my computers, and Fedora (Gnome/Wayland) doesn't scale Dwarf Fortress at all. There's a "text scale" setting in Gnome Tweak that works beautifully for the purpose, but doesn't affect DF. So even I'll be using 20x20 at times. I can't escape!
Along those lines, I've whipped up a simple script that iterates over every tileset in my collection, automatially dices it up into individual tiles, doubles those tiles in size using xbrz, and then stitches them together again. With this, I won't need to support 20x20 at all, it'll just be generated by the script. Splitting it up into component tiles prevents the solid tiles from "bleeding" over into their neighbours. It has a blacklist for tiles 176, 177, 178, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223: even xbrz can't handle these tiles appropriately, so they're doubled separately with a simple "box" or "point" algorithm.
I think some people prefer this approach anyway: the "4chan" variant that still gets circulated is proof that many people prefer the machine scaled version to my manually doubled version, and this lets me keep everything available at double-size with a consistent look and make changes, without me needing to support any of it. This will make only 12 tilesets I need to support in the next version, even with a new tileset in the collection. That makes me happy. Adding the blackletter variant and giving it custom, ornate walls will only result in 2 new tilesets (dwarf letter and normal), where before it'd result in 16 (10x10 sized, 20x20 sized, dwarf letters, normal, and four wall types for each). As mentioned, solid straight walls and diagonal hollow walls won't be supported going forward.
Compare these two tilesets:
(https://i.imgur.com/CqvtQXp.png)(https://i.imgur.com/omgScH8.png)
As mentioned, I didn't need to open an image editor even once for the one on the left, I just ran my script.
With this, release of the next version will happen soonish. I've redrawn Moscow's walls, so the tetris look is gone but ornate, diagonal are in for two sets now. Even with the new script, the fancy tilesets might just be crudely doubled. It depends on how well xbrz deals with the fine details.
Post by: jecowa on March 30, 2018, 02:47:08 pm
Nearest-neighboring the partially-mined / glacier blocks and the big box characters was a good idea.
On the Arabic text, the underlining and dots looks cool, but it's much more readable without.
Post by: Taffer on March 31, 2018, 12:51:24 am
The color schemes were lightened, almost back to what they were before I darkened them. Sorry, feelotraveller! I just like them better that way! Old versions of Taffer will continue to be available as tags in the repository, so old work is never lost.
(https://gitlab.com/spiral-king/taffer/raw/master/preview.gif)
The entire 20x directory is now automatically generated from the 10x directory. The curious can look at the (messy, but functional) script here (https://gitlab.com/spiral-king/taffer/blob/master/double_tilesets.sh), if you want to scale your own tilesets.
Post by: Iliithid on April 03, 2018, 11:00:25 am
Post by: Taffer on April 03, 2018, 11:39:52 am
My first reaction was that the handcrafted scaled tileset was definitely superior; you can see it in the "5" and the "t". But now I'm kind of liking the softer edges of the machine-crafted version. This looks like anti-aliasing, so this version would probably need an alpha transparency instead of indexed magenta?
Nearest-neighboring the partially-mined / glacier blocks and the big box characters was a good idea.
On the Arabic text, the underlining and dots looks cool, but it's much more readable without.
Thank you kindly for the feedback, by the way! I did take it into account. I admit I hadn't even thought about needing alpha transparency, so I fixed that for the release. I know that the manually doubled look is better overall, but my sanity dictated this approach, especially as I know some prefer the soft look. I never thought I did a good job on the manually done 20x20 sets anyway, for some reason the look just didn't work for me.
I decided to go with the Damascus tileset I had, even with readability issues. I did my best, but the italic font didn't suit the aesthetic and without the dots and the underline, the set isn't unified in style.
I'm still considering getting rid of the line, but not the dots.
Post by: Iliithid on April 03, 2018, 08:11:54 pm
Post by: xordae on April 05, 2018, 02:38:10 am
Post by: Droggarth on April 06, 2018, 03:15:45 pm
In a strange way though it has this very slight ye olden feel to it while not sacrificing readability and wow does 20x20 look much better and is also easier on my eyes, been like a fool in the past using only 10x10 on my 1680x1050 monitor (tbh, I was a blind raging fool in general in the past when I first joined the forum and I'm not ashamed to admit it because it was just unacceptable, faulty and toxic behaviour in general from me).
Takes only one mouse scroll up to adjust my screen to be less large now while 10x10 needed a few mouse scrolls down to make the tiny letters larger thus appearing muddy and loss of quality very apparent. I love the happy vibrancy of your alternative color sceme, Taffer. Without your tilesets the game's original colors feel like they burn into my eyes while most of the darker color schemes here are just too dark for me. The more vibrant color scheme feels like a happy medium between vanilla and the dark default color of this tileset pack to me.
Post by: Taffer on April 06, 2018, 08:36:26 pm
After some cursory playing with Damascus, 20x is readable and doesn't hurt so much but BOY, 10x on a smaller screen is pretty painful on the eyes especially looking at grass or above ground goings-on with all the noise. Still wonderful but could do with some cleaning up however that's possible, I have no idea how you'd increase readability while maintaining the theme.
I'll fix up the font a little, to make playing at 10x a little more bearable. I might experiment with removing the line entirely, but I'll first see if just adding a pixel or two of separation between the letters and the line is enough.
I confess to being a little bewildered by the point aobut grass and ground: I love the way grass and the ground look in Damascus. I'll be honest, I'm not sure I want to clean it up more. Having lots of noise is exactly what I like about the tileset. I'm not sure how much it affects readability, personally: perhaps I just need to play with it more. There used to be lots of noise around the letters, but that's been pared back significantly. I suppose its hard to tell the difference between a period and a comma, but that's not really necessary when you're looking at the ground, and obvious in context for sentences. I'll think about it.
Thank you for the critique!
I love this tileset, but find the crisp version superior to the smoothed one. Some letters end up looking very off, like W, v, A, r, #. The dwarf smiley and human military icons also have lines bleeding into one another. If it has to be automated from here on, I'd recommend using a less 'smart' and more crisp algo for upscaling. EPX (https://i.imgur.com/UHfT9wJ.png) is an excellent one for pixelly upscaling.
I actually agree that the crisp version is (in some ways) superior to the smoothed one, but I'm a perfectionist at heart and I've never liked my work with the double-sized sets. The maintenance burden of the sets has definitely kept me from working. There's been a few changes I wanted to make to the tilesets (that I don't even recall now), but the thought of having to update 24 tilesets, then redraw my change, and then update another 24, just absolutely killed my motivation every time. I much prefer having just the 10x10 sets to think about. Sorry! That being said, some users do prefer the scaled version, so it's not all bad.
Thank you for the suggestions, though! I want to get the scaling done as good as I can. I'll try scale2x, which is already built into ImageMagick, which is based on EPX. Hopefully that makes the double-sized sets cleaner. I can also easily fix the bleeding issue with the dwarf and human graphics: I thought I could get away with scaling the image directly, without chopping it into bits first. It'll be a bit more scripting work, but easily fixed.
The new default letters were the first thing I noticed after I updated to .44.09 and the main reason so far why it hasn't bothered me really is excatly what Iliithid said.
In a strange way though it has this very slight ye olden feel to it while not sacrificing readability and wow does 20x20 look much better and is also easier on my eyes, been like a fool in the past using only 10x10 on my 1680x1050 monitor (tbh, I was a blind raging fool in general in the past when I first joined the forum and I'm not ashamed to admit it because it was just unacceptable, faulty and toxic behaviour in general from me).
Takes only one mouse scroll up to adjust my screen to be less large now while 10x10 needed a few mouse scrolls down to make the tiny letters larger thus appearing muddy and loss of quality very apparent. I love the happy vibrancy of your alternative color sceme, Taffer. Without your tilesets the game's original colors feel like they burn into my eyes while most of the darker color schemes here are just too dark for me. The more vibrant color scheme feels like a happy medium between vanilla and the dark default color of this tileset pack to me.
Glad you like the update! I haven't really played with my Taffer tileset in years, to be honest. I'm happy to hear that somebody likes it: I contemplated removing it from the download in order to further shrink things. I'll keep it part of the set.
Post by: xordae on April 07, 2018, 03:02:00 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Z58o1CG.png) (https://imgur.com/XBPeFl8.png)
Post by: Iliithid on April 08, 2018, 01:16:03 am
After some more playing it became clearer that I was just used to playing with cleaner tilesets for sooo long that the noise threw me off. It's gotten easier to discern between tiles after a while, though I still definitely prefer to play at 20x when I can, especially if I find myself reading a lot of legends or expedition notes.After some cursory playing with Damascus, 20x is readable and doesn't hurt so much but BOY, 10x on a smaller screen is pretty painful on the eyes especially looking at grass or above ground goings-on with all the noise. Still wonderful but could do with some cleaning up however that's possible, I have no idea how you'd increase readability while maintaining the theme.
I'll fix up the font a little, to make playing at 10x a little more bearable. I might experiment with removing the line entirely, but I'll first see if just adding a pixel or two of separation between the letters and the line is enough.
I confess to being a little bewildered by the point aobut grass and ground: I love the way grass and the ground look in Damascus. I'll be honest, I'm not sure I want to clean it up more. Having lots of noise is exactly what I like about the tileset. I'm not sure how much it affects readability, personally: perhaps I just need to play with it more. There used to be lots of noise around the letters, but that's been pared back significantly. I suppose its hard to tell the difference between a period and a comma, but that's not really necessary when you're looking at the ground, and obvious in context for sentences. I'll think about it.
Thank you for the critique!
Post by: Max™ on April 19, 2018, 01:19:59 pm
I love them both for the record.
Compare these two tilesets:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As mentioned, I didn't need to open an image editor even once for the one on the left, I just ran my script.
With this, release of the next version will happen soonish. I've redrawn Moscow's walls, so the tetris look is gone but ornate, diagonal are in for two sets now. Even with the new script, the fancy tilesets might just be crudely doubled. It depends on how well xbrz deals with the fine details.
Post by: Taffer on May 10, 2018, 11:39:09 am
Post by: Taffer on May 17, 2018, 10:05:16 pm
This also lets me maintain private forks of my work on Gitlab.
Post by: jecowa on May 18, 2018, 10:40:46 pm
Post by: Taffer on May 20, 2018, 12:52:18 am
I guess you got rid of anti-aliasing in v5.2 because you didn't like the way it looks when it was resizes in-game?
The transparent background? That was removed because I switched from xBRZ to scale2x/EPX as suggested here:
I love this tileset, but find the crisp version superior to the smoothed one. Some letters end up looking very off, like W, v, A, r, #. The dwarf smiley and human military icons also have lines bleeding into one another. If it has to be automated from here on, I'd recommend using a less 'smart' and more crisp algo for upscaling. EPX (https://i.imgur.com/UHfT9wJ.png) is an excellent one for pixelly upscaling.
The ImageMagick implementation doesn't seem to support antialiasing for that algorithm, as the aliased portions in the output were in magenta, even when I fiddled with the options.
Post by: xordae on May 20, 2018, 12:21:07 pm
I think it looks great like this, but it's obviously a matter of taste. ;)
I also have the full 20x tileset still in use on my other machine if anyone is looking for it.
Post by: Taffer on May 20, 2018, 01:06:20 pm
I think it looks great like this, but it's obviously a matter of taste. ;)
Thank you kindly!
I also have the full 20x tileset still in use on my other machine if anyone is looking for it.
The entire history of my work should already be available in the Git history (at least, starting from when I switched to Git).
Post by: draeath on May 28, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
My opinion, if you'll have it? Revert the scaler change! :P
You also see a lot more aliasing on some of the symbols, for example the whole top row. It just looks... much worse.
Side-by-side comparison. The good/old set on the left, the new roundy bad set on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/NCD6o64.png)
Post by: Taffer on June 01, 2018, 01:12:38 pm
Not really a fan of the rounder look since 5.0.4. I preferred the more "classic" angular characters. (i use '20x/taffer/tilesets/dwarves_as_letters/sans-serif/hollow_straight_walls')
My opinion, if you'll have it? Revert the scaler change! :P
You also see a lot more aliasing on some of the symbols, for example the whole top row. It just looks... much worse.
For the moment, I intend to use "box" or simple scaling for the 20x20 sets. I'll make that change when I can. Things will look a bit boxier, but every tileset will at least be pixel accurate to the 10x10 sets.
I'll consider bringing back the old sets, at least in part. Part of the problem is that I have a big readability overhaul planned (or attempt at an overhaul, because I don't know if it'll work), and I don't particularly want to redraw 20x20 sets again. But my tilesets can be unpleasant to read at times, and I want to make an effort to fix that. (It's especially annoying, given all of my effort in Revised to make DF more fun to read). If that means that people have to put up with blocky 20x20 sets, then all I can say is sorry (and invite somebody else to draw them for me). I don't have the free time that I used to, I'm not well lately, and Revised has been taking most of my DF attention. But legibility is more important to me than refusing to improve things for the sake of the larger sets.
Thank you for the feedback!
Post by: Burneddi on June 02, 2018, 11:06:43 am
Post by: xordae on June 02, 2018, 11:13:58 am
Post by: Burneddi on June 02, 2018, 11:34:51 am
I can recommend the 16x16 Wanderlust set for something not too different from Taffer.16x16 is a bit too large for my tastes, too. 12x12 feels like the sweet spot, but there seems to be a sore lack of nice tiles at that resolution.
Post by: Taffer on June 27, 2018, 09:52:44 pm
Anyway, IMO the problem usually isn't that the tileset is square, the problem is that the font used is often too small for the tile size it's used in. The kerning is often off. If your square tileset uses a properly sized font, the readability problems mostly go away. I've realized for a long time now that my fonts are too small for 10x10, which affects readability. I didn't mind as much before because the extra black space reminded me of Ultima V (most of my childhood gaming), but it's really been wearing on me now that I obsessively read over and improve creature descriptons for Revised.
So farewell, 10x10 (and 20x20, by extension). So 8x8 is probably too small (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7247065#msg7247065), so I'm giving 9x9 a shot. Consider this a preview. I was planning on doing everything in one fell swoop and surprising people, but between Revised taking up a lot of my attention and various IRL problems that complicate my ability to work on DF I thought I'd post something now. This also lets me collect feedback. Tasty feedback.
(https://i.imgur.com/6aRx9tI.png)
9x9 Taffer? What?
(https://i.imgur.com/pHAgAVr.png)
And blocky 18x18, of course.
(https://i.imgur.com/SQZY9Nu.png)
Old and busted (and hard to read).
(https://i.imgur.com/oMAEg8j.png)
New hotness (and much nicer to read).
(https://i.imgur.com/9BwBExv.png)
Maybe the walls are too fancy?
(https://i.imgur.com/N8RMvHj.png)
I took the opportunity to make water/snow/sand less noticable while I was at it. This is much better after all, and helps to alleviate the worst part about diagonal walls (empty black corners in snowy/sandy areas).
Enjoy! I don't have a release date. I'm not even completely sure I want 9x9 and not 8x8. 8x8 is even more pleasant to read, but then niceties such as accented characters and the fancier tiles start suffering. I'll also be wanting to fix up Damascus's readability problems while I'm working on this, and I haven't even started any of the fonts but this one. What can't be adapted will be dropped, but I expect all of the fonts to survive (even Damascus). I also don't know yet what this does to the creature graphics. I'll probably need to redraw them all. I'm seriously tempted to just stick to the "dwarves as letters", because I'm getting older and crankier and I haven't actually used my creature graphics for years (seriously).
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on June 27, 2018, 10:11:16 pm
And dwarves as smiley faces roaming the multi-racial halls of other letters just doesn't work for me any more. D for Dorf all the way.
18x18? Hmm. Will keep your 20x20 on hand just in case.
Keep up the good work. Fantastic set and colour schemes.
Post by: Taffer on June 27, 2018, 10:30:35 pm
I haven't used your creature graphics in years either (two modded races added who just don't fit in with the graphical races, not to mention animal people).
And dwarves as smiley faces roaming the multi-racial halls of other letters just doesn't work for me any more. D for Dorf all the way.
18x18? Hmm. Will keep your 20x20 on hand just in case.
Keep up the good work. Fantastic set and colour schemes.
Thanks for the vote of confidence and the feedback! Glad to hear my fondness for letter dwarves is spreading.
I just changed my mind about the walls at the last moment as well.
"Old" 9x9 preview, preserved for archiving's sake. The little circles in the walls became squares in the newer one, which matches the sharp diagonal corners better.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Warlord255 on June 28, 2018, 06:51:26 am
Post by: Koumakan on June 28, 2018, 07:32:39 pm
Post by: DWARFFRAWD on July 02, 2018, 09:48:35 am
i want to change human unit's color to red. so i changed ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT to ADD_COLOR:RED
but color not changed. what's wrong??
Post by: Taffer on July 02, 2018, 10:38:03 am
how i change civ color?
i want to change human unit's color to red. so i changed ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT to ADD_COLOR:RED
but color not changed. what's wrong??
I don't know. I don't worry much about the graphics RAWs. The files included do what I need them to do, and I go through them every major release to make sure that everything looks shipshape. Otherwise, I don't know much about them. I'm not even sure I'll continue to offer creature graphics (see my post above).
You're probably better off asking in the modding questions thread.
Post by: DWARFFRAWD on July 03, 2018, 01:17:09 pm
How modify graphic file?
I want to change elf's color to red. so it is need to modify "taffer_elves.png" .
Is it need some programs? how can i load and set color for that file?
Post by: Taffer on July 09, 2018, 09:58:49 pm
Change the question.
How modify graphic file?
I want to change elf's color to red. so it is need to modify "taffer_elves.png" .
Is it need some programs? how can i load and set color for that file?
I had a bit of time to look into this. Sorry for the delay! My guess is that you'll have to color taffer_elves.png red yourself in a paint program and change ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT to AS_IS:DEFAULT. The downside to this approach is that all of your elves will end up red, and they won't be colored by profession. The ADD_COLOR tag simply doesn't do (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_texture_token) what you want it to.
Post by: Taffer on July 09, 2018, 10:57:12 pm
Progress! The walls have changed again, but that's not necessarily final. I just wanted to show off some variety. These walls are a little less fancy, a little more hollow, and a little more natural looking.
Feedback and criticism welcome! In addition to the creature graphics, solid walls are also on the chopping block. Maybe even traditional, straight walls. The new walls just look good. I don't really see the advantage of traditional walls over my new diagonal walls.
9x9 serif, a few pixels later.
(https://i.imgur.com/u45YLtQ.png)
18x18 serif version, a few pixels later.
(https://i.imgur.com/b9I3F0t.png)
New 9x9 sans-serif, fresh off the image editor. Dat Hoshi font. I used to prefer the serif 10x10 to the sans-serif 10x10: this one turned out so well that I like the sans-serif better now.
(https://i.imgur.com/Maaoaeq.png)
18x18 sans-serif.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Mv1nKh.png)
That leaves Moscow (easy, probably) and Damascus (painful, probably). Still not certain whether the creature graphics will survive.
Post by: Taffer on July 11, 2018, 09:07:46 pm
Another go at the new serif tileset. I've done a lot of font redrawing, so it's even more readable.
(https://i.imgur.com/G3YxNYa.png)
I also took the time to finish the graphics sets.
(https://i.imgur.com/1rTcira.png) dwarves.
(https://i.imgur.com/OsVJkaJ.png) elves.
(https://i.imgur.com/PD8u7f2.png) goblins.
(https://i.imgur.com/VILK3rR.png) humans.
(https://i.imgur.com/QhZZw4D.png) kobolds.
Might as well post the newest version of the sans-serif while I'm at it.
(https://i.imgur.com/yimupVd.png)
Post by: Meph on July 15, 2018, 03:34:22 pm
Edit: Would you consider working on non-square text sets? I found that a format like this is really helpful to give players the maximum amount of ingame-tiles, while keeping the menu small:
(https://i.imgur.com/rBSkLXE.png)
The ingame menu is 32x tiles wide, so if you make a 9x18 text font, to go along a 18x18 ingame tileset, you get 16 "free" map tiles, because the menu is suddenly 288 pixels thinner. Just as an idea, in case you run out of things to do. ;)
Post by: Taffer on July 20, 2018, 04:24:45 pm
I can't imagine how hard you are staring at those glyphs when deciding what to cut out or add. Suddenly I don't feel that bad with 1024 pixels per sprite... :D
I obsess a little over it, yeah. There's kind of a struggle between what looks good in game and what's closer to the vanilla tileset. Sometimes I'll tweak tiles to make them look good in game, only to find that I've strayed from the vanilla tileset in some way.
Edit: Would you consider working on non-square text sets? I found that a format like this is really helpful to give players the maximum amount of ingame-tiles, while keeping the menu small:
The ingame menu is 32x tiles wide, so if you make a 9x18 text font, to go along a 18x18 ingame tileset, you get 16 "free" map tiles, because the menu is suddenly 288 pixels thinner. Just as an idea, in case you run out of things to do. ;)
I have no interest in rectangular tilesets. I just don't find them attractive or useful. I don't mind the width of the menus, personally. Even if I had the time and interest in relying on TWBT for my tilesets, I'd still stick with a square tileset for the text and I'd still use dwarf letters rather than creature graphics.
Post by: Droggarth on July 28, 2018, 06:06:04 pm
Post by: Taffer on August 23, 2018, 10:53:24 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/REr7sN8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/62du7Kf.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UNCvMae.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5NdmWOe.png)
...and then there was only one left. Damascus. As with the 9x9 serif tileset, this required redrawing the whole alphabet, as it just didn't transition well. I think Moscow's improved dramatically after the transition, actually. Some of the original letters were shockingly small for a 10x10 set, so this should be much more readable. I'm quite proud of how the walls turned out. It shouldn't be too long now before I re-release in glorious 9x9 and blocky 18x18.
The main download will feature only four 9x9 tilesets and four 18x18 tilesets, one for each font. No graphics, all dwarf letters. Diagonal fancy walls (although as shown earlier, the serif and sans-serif fonts have much more plain walls). There'll be a separate newb version featuring creature graphics and only two tilesets: serif and sans-serif, each with straight walls and dwarf graphics. 9x9 and 18x18. That way I can keep my main download simple and straightforward and I can punt the straight wall purists, the smiley face purists, and the buggy creature graphics fans to a separate download.
Post by: Taffer on September 19, 2018, 09:58:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/J8l7VU7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7UdTyJu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8dSjQ4d.png)
EDIT: Also, Droggarth fanart: (https://i.imgur.com/CkVq9dn.png)
Post by: Fleeting Frames on September 20, 2018, 04:52:25 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 09, 2018, 12:33:23 am
The Damascus font actually came out pretty readable in my opinion. Water, grass, and sand tile beautifully with that set: I wanted to have the big world map be drawn in that tileset, but I figured I'd better stick to the default font. Consider giving it a try.
Hopefully the way I've structured the downloads isn't too confusing. It makes sense to me to split up the dwarf letters and the creature graphics entirely—you had to edit init.txt yourself before and turn the graphics off—but it might confuse people. I've been using 'vanilla' too much and 'canon' doesn't make sense for anything but the default tileset, so I opted for 'orthodox'. And if I have orthodox tilesets, it only makes sense to me (a Crusader Kings 2 player) to have heretic sets (by the emperor...).
Anyways. Enjoy, or be pissed off or indifferent. At least do me a favor though and let me know why you're pissed off or indifferent, so I can improve things going forward.
The 10x10 and 20x20 sets are preserved in Git history. I don't really feel like maintaining them going forward, but I can make them more visible if enough people ask...do give the new tilesets a try though, they really are much more readable.
Post by: Droggarth on October 09, 2018, 01:38:38 am
Nice! Never thought of using diagonal walls before but since I am a resident heretic here I gotta give Damascus a try, sure looks artsy and spicy to see. Not sure if I get used to letters having lines on the bottom but awesome detail on everything else!
EDIT: Also, Droggarth fanart: (https://i.imgur.com/CkVq9dn.png)
Noice! Definitely my kind of Khorne symbol/mark as it has the broad element I like, thanks! Sorry it took this long to notice, I took a short break from the game.
edit: Heh, for some reason my eyeballs feel like popping out of their sockets trying to read anything other than Damascus' letters. Tested all 18x18 'Heretical' tilesets just now for readability and Damascus, despite taking a second/half a second to focus on what I'm looking at.. at least my eyes are content in their sockets. Mind you my eyes are used to the 20x default one I previously commented on but that aside I'll be playing the game with the 18x18 'Heretical' Damascus for a while or at least as long as I can manage for the sake of artsy looking DF gaming experience. Can't stretch it enough how much of a treat this feels and looks like for this game! 8)
edit2: Aye, with other tilesets my eyes aren't used to some of the spaces between thinner letters, Damascus evens it out for me with those lines plus some of the letters look broader too so that helps. Doesn't help though that I'm as odd as the Warp itself but I hope I've been of some help with my tetrachromat eyes.
Post by: Taffer on October 09, 2018, 09:23:22 am
...
Nice! Never thought of using diagonal walls before but since I am a resident heretic here I gotta give Damascus a try, sure looks artsy and spicy to see. Not sure if I get used to letters having lines on the bottom but awesome detail on everything else!
...
edit: Heh, for some reason my eyeballs feel like popping out of their sockets trying to read anything other than Damascus' letters. Tested all 18x18 'Heretical' tilesets just now for readability and Damascus, despite taking a second/half a second to focus on what I'm looking at.. at least my eyes are content in their sockets. Mind you my eyes are used to the 20x default one I previously commented on but that aside I'll be playing the game with the 18x18 'Heretical' Damascus for a while or at least as long as I can manage for the sake of artsy looking DF gaming experience. Can't stretch it enough how much of a treat this feels and looks like for this game! 8)
edit2: Aye, with other tilesets my eyes aren't used to some of the spaces between thinner letters, Damascus evens it out for me with those lines plus some of the letters look broader too so that helps. Doesn't help though that I'm as odd as the Warp itself but I hope I've been of some help with my tetrachromat eyes.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you like the Damascus tileset! I'll give the serif tileset another pass and widen the letters a bit. I can't widen the sans-serif set as easily, but the serif set is thinner than it needs to be.
Post by: Droggarth on October 09, 2018, 06:25:18 pm
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you like the Damascus tileset! I'll give the serif tileset another pass and widen the letters a bit. I can't widen the sans-serif set as easily, but the serif set is thinner than it needs to be.
You're welcome! Damascus is definitely a keeper for me as I just finished another milestone in my adventure after a long trek across the world. Buildings used to look so bland before but now even simple houses and tents make me imagine something much more exotic, I'm loving it. I guess sometimes burning it all down and starting from scratch can really work wonders.
Post by: Koumakan on October 10, 2018, 11:42:37 am
Post by: jaccarmac on October 21, 2018, 04:10:25 pm
Post by: Taffer on October 21, 2018, 09:05:05 pm
You're welcome! Damascus is definitely a keeper for me as I just finished another milestone in my adventure after a long trek across the world. Buildings used to look so bland before but now even simple houses and tents make me imagine something much more exotic, I'm loving it. I guess sometimes burning it all down and starting from scratch can really work wonders.
I'm glad to see another Damascus user. It's not perfect, but I'm proud of it. I'm excited to further improve the tileset. Redrawing my work was worth it, even with the rough patches. Thank you!
Very nice, definitely better than the 10x10
Thank you! Let me know if you have any complaints!
Was using Damascus before and upgraded when I noticed the Git had. Took a while to adjust to the changes but I'm liking it so far. Will need more time to solidify my opinion on it. Super happy for new Taffer updates regardless!
I look forward to reading your opinion; I'm happy that you like it and pleasantly surprised to see another Damascus user. Thank you!
It's worth adding that I'm planning on giving the heretic tilesets another pass. The tiles are closer to ASCII than before. This will change now that I have separate orthodox tilesets. There's no reason why I can't have fancy trees again, and I'm looking forward to drawing branches in place of the '1/4' symbol. I'm not going to ruin my tilesets by re-introducing the graphical oddities that made me draw them to begin with—like screw pumps that look like barrels—but there's plenty of room for graphics to creep back in where it's safe to have them.
I don't know if that's good news or not, but the worst part about my new update is how I've redrawn most of the graphical tiles closer to vanilla, and I want to reassure people that I have other plans. There'll always be the orthodox tilesets for people that want them. My first comment complimented my fancy trees, it would be a shame to do away with them.
It looks very clean and readable, a great ASCII set. Those fancy trees are nice as well.
Post by: Taffer on October 27, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/srOVaKr.png)
Hyrule City and Moscow are available as both Heretical and Orthodox fonts, making Damascus the only Heretical exclusive.
(https://i.imgur.com/fpfzABB.png)
The 10x10 serif font has odd kerning around capital 'I', and widening the 9x9 serif will re-introduce the same problem. I'll probably just ignore it and bring the 9x9 serif back (more or less) to where the 10x10 serif was, but for now I've left it as it is. Good kerning or a better serif font, pick one.
Post by: Mallard on November 05, 2018, 10:18:03 pm
A quick question: If I wanted to try out the older 10x and 20x version of your set, which one would you recommend? 5.2.1? I'd like to try out the "definitive edition" of your classic set, if there is such a thing.
Post by: Taffer on November 11, 2018, 07:51:03 am
I'm a new player who's been lurking around the forums for a month or so, but I just wanted to say that I love this set. It makes the game look beautiful, and that makes me want to play it more! Thank you for this labor of love.
Apologies for my delay. Thank you for the kind note.
A quick question: If I wanted to try out the older 10x and 20x version of your set, which one would you recommend? 5.2.1? I'd like to try out the "definitive edition" of your classic set, if there is such a thing.
I agree with 5.2.1 as the "definitive 10x10". If there was something about the older sets I liked, I'd have added it.
There was a hand-drawn 20x20 set: the release before they I removed them might be worth looking at. My large gand drawn sets never looked right. I was smoothing the blocky edges, but if I was drawing at 20x20 to begin with the whole tileset would look different. 10x10 was already de facto the definitive version, so I made it official.
A long time ago I was using a pixel-art shader than cleaning it up by hand, but that was taking too long. Some people on 4chan like these versions.
Post by: Iliithid on November 11, 2018, 04:27:28 pm
The new 18x18 looks great, and including the dwarves-as-letters in the tilesets itself now and subverting graphics was a good move.
Kudos!
Post by: Taffer on November 11, 2018, 08:53:16 pm
Completely out of left field here, but the tundra/glacier biomes look -incredible- in Damascus, so thank you for that tiny, tiny detail.
The new 18x18 looks great, and including the dwarves-as-letters in the tilesets itself now and subverting graphics was a good move.
Kudos!
Thank you kindly! Let me know if you have any suggestions.
(https://i.imgur.com/keLlCwx.png)
Post by: Mallard on November 15, 2018, 09:05:18 am
I agree with 5.2.1 as the "definitive 10x10". If there was something about the older sets I liked, I'd have added it.
There was a hand-drawn 20x20 set: the release before they I removed them might be worth looking at. My large gand drawn sets never looked right. I was smoothing the blocky edges, but if I was drawing at 20x20 to begin with the whole tileset would look different. 10x10 was already de facto the definitive version, so I made it official.
A long time ago I was using a pixel-art shader than cleaning it up by hand, but that was taking too long. Some people on 4chan like these versions.
Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to check it out!
Post by: Droggarth on December 01, 2018, 10:57:05 pm
Version v6.1.0 released!
Played a bit with the updated 'Heretical' 18x18 Damascus and I'm finding words much easier to read now, that's awesome! Nice work. :o
edit: Really loving polished/updated Damascus here. It is indeed much easier to read and while playing the game with it, makes me feel like playing something genuinely good looking from DOS-era.
Post by: Taffer on December 02, 2018, 11:21:46 am
I'd love to hear what people think of the serif tileset, because I'm mostly using Damascus nowadays. I'm not sure there's much I can do to fix the serif tileset without making its kerning look off (spaces between letters). I was tempted to get rid of the serif tileset as well, but I decided against it.
Played a bit with the updated 'Heretical' 18x18 Damascus and I'm finding words much easier to read now, that's awesome! Nice work. :o
edit: Really loving polished/updated Damascus here. It is indeed much easier to read and while playing the game with it, makes me feel like playing something genuinely good looking from DOS-era.
Thank you kindly! When the next update is release, I'm hoping to do another pass over Damascus: I don't know how much more readable I can make it, though. The dots on the punctuation are the most annoying thing, and I can't clean that up without making the ground look significantly more boring.
Post by: Mallard on December 02, 2018, 03:50:16 pm
I'd love to hear what people think of the serif tileset, because I'm mostly using Damascus nowadays. I'm not sure there's much I can do to fix the serif tileset without making its kerning look off (spaces between letters). I was tempted to get rid of the serif tileset as well, but I decided against it.
I've used both the serif and sans-serif from your orthodox set. The sans is more readable, but I prefer the serif, so I'm glad you've decided to keep it. If there's anything that feels "off" to me in the serif set, it would be the "right-hanging" serif found in some the upper-case letters (like M and W, for example). Something about it makes my eye "hang" on those letters when reading.
Post by: Taffer on December 02, 2018, 05:50:06 pm
I've used both the serif and sans-serif from your orthodox set. The sans is more readable, but I prefer the serif, so I'm glad you've decided to keep it. If there's anything that feels "off" to me in the serif set, it would be the "right-hanging" serif found in some the upper-case letters (like M and W, for example). Something about it makes my eye "hang" on those letters when reading.
Thank you kindly for the specific feedback. I'll remove the right-hanging serifs in the next version. Cheers!
Post by: Mallard on December 04, 2018, 01:04:28 am
Thank you kindly for the specific feedback. I'll remove the right-hanging serifs in the next version. Cheers!
You're welcome, and thanks for considering my feedback!
As I was looking at this again, though, I realized that the right-hanging serifs only seem to be a problem (for me) when they appear at the top of a letter, like W. I actually like them as they appear in letters like A, M, and N.
Post by: Taffer on January 05, 2019, 12:10:35 am
Next version's preview (the new version has filled in mountains for now, very WIP):
(https://i.imgur.com/6npeY7M.gif)
In-game (mostly showing off the new walls):
(https://i.imgur.com/0AHp1UC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HZ2qP4b.png)
Post by: Taffer on January 05, 2019, 10:06:24 am
(https://i.imgur.com/m530C28.gif)
Post by: Taffer on January 05, 2019, 02:59:25 pm
Another preview, showing off to nobody in particular. The glaciers/mining tiles might be a little too strange, I haven't decided.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZmV97TJ.png)
These glaciers/mining tiles are a little more traditional. They tile beautifully IMO with the tundra tiles, but still might be too creative for most people.
(https://i.imgur.com/cYfGVKy.png)
Post by: Droggarth on January 10, 2019, 03:14:45 pm
And the 'taffer' and 'pastel' (default) colour palettes now have a pure black background
I liked that the 'taffer' color palette's black isn't entirely black and also, with my new IPS monitor, pitch black dark can get on my nerves due to IPS glow (which I've tweaked down as much as I could, but still). Lighter blacks minimize reading discomfort for me along with keeping me from feeling depressed during gameplay.
Feedback wanted! Recoiling in horror? Think something looks good? Let me know (would you kindly)![/b]
I've gotten so used to 'Heretical'/'Artistic' 'Damascus' tileset nowadays that I can't quite tell which is better or worse, I feel confused is all. All I can say is that the tiny blocky tundra/snowy bits feel odd. I can imagine a snowing map and all I can see is not snow but ice cubes that are supposed to be snow.. it's, in a word; confusing.
Post by: Taffer on January 11, 2019, 02:27:19 pm
Sans-serif is the legible, simple tileset. Arabic-inspired is for tiny, artistic detail. Cyrillic-inspired feels like a compromise between the two (and is a nice nod to Vherid's work). Serif just doesn't have much reason to exist in comparison.
With this I'll just be supporting 3 artistic fonts and 1 traditional font, with double-sized versions of each.
I liked that the 'taffer' color palette's black isn't entirely black and also, with my new IPS monitor, pitch black dark can get on my nerves due to IPS glow (which I've tweaked down as much as I could, but still). Lighter blacks minimize reading discomfort for me along with keeping me from feeling depressed during gameplay.
I restored the black colors to where they were.
I've gotten so used to 'Heretical'/'Artistic' 'Damascus' tileset nowadays that I can't quite tell which is better or worse, I feel confused is all. All I can say is that the tiny blocky tundra/snowy bits feel odd. I can imagine a snowing map and all I can see is not snow but ice cubes that are supposed to be snow.. it's, in a word; confusing.
I changed those tiles back, at least for now. I might compromise and add the new glacier tiles to the artistic sets and keep the traditional look for the traditional tileset, but that doesn't help in your case. I haven't really decided yet. Thanks for the feedback!
Post by: Taffer on January 21, 2019, 09:38:02 pm
Post by: Mallard on January 23, 2019, 12:04:45 am
Post by: Droggarth on February 26, 2019, 11:28:45 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 10, 2019, 06:49:53 pm
- Improved the mountain and volcano tiles for easier to read maps.
- Slightly darkened dark gray and light gray on the Pastel palette (the default). This was done for better contrast with the other colors.
- Removed the Dawnbringer colors.
Post by: Taffer on March 10, 2019, 08:59:13 pm
I sat down to actually play for once and I was immediately reminded that I hated the 'r' tile and that the shade of brown in my default palette was ugly. So I fixed both, redid the previews (again), and tweaked light cyan, dark cyan, light gray, and dark gray again for contrast and readability.
Here's hoping I can last more than 2 hours this time before trying again.
Post by: Taffer on March 11, 2019, 09:13:58 pm
Here's hoping I can last more than 2 hours this time before trying again.
24 hours this time. Lowercase 't' was bothering me as I was playing, so I fixed it up a little for sans-serif and arabic-inspired. The tileset really is much more readable than in my 10x10 days..
Post by: Taffer on March 13, 2019, 01:24:00 pm
I have no interest in supporting my work anywhere outside of GitLab or the Bay12 forums. If it isn't posted by spiral-king on GitLab or by Taffer on the Bay 12 forums, then I didn't make it.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 14, 2019, 04:13:39 am
...
Ooh! Latest Taffer tileset! :D
Steamwhatnow?
Post by: Taffer on March 14, 2019, 01:46:18 pm
I didn't even do a good job at a mockup, because it doesn't show off beds, barrels, chests, and I didn't even throw a little arena fight in there to show that I'm not doing creature graphics. Please read the details below.
(https://i.imgur.com/8XN5ClO.png)
With the promise of better graphical support built into the game rather than as a hacky memory editing library, it looks like I'll finally be able to get a little fancy someday. The two rooms on the left are meant to be engraved.
Q: an old fashioned "church of ASCII" version?
A: yes.
Q:18x18 version?
A: yes, but not custom drawn. Doubled from the 9x9, just like I do now.
Q: fancy landscape tiles?
A: yes, if supported.
Q: tiny item tiles, like beds, barrels, wardrobes, screw pumps, stairs, and more?
A: yes, if supported (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/0/00/Df_tock10_1.PNG).
Q: sexy graphical maps?
A: yes, if supported.
Q: arabic-inspired and cyrillic-inspired variants?
A: depends on the art style I end up with and how tedious it is to have them as options. If you think I'm doing separate tiles for anything but the font though, you're insane.
Q: custom workshops?
A: probably not, but maybe (if supported). I don't want to go crazy.
Q: straight wall variant?
A: see previous answer.
Q: serif font?
A: no.
Q: creature graphics?
A: definitely not, not 9x9. I'll probably drop support for dwarf graphics and stick with dorfletters.
Q: multiple z-level view (see the z-layer below you)
A: if supported and if I can do it in a way that doesn't look terrible.
Q: rectangular menu font?
A:
This is all speculation. I'll believe things when Toady releases them. Until then I'll see what I can do to quietly prepare. Don't hesitate to ask questions below.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 14, 2019, 06:01:02 pm
I far prefer these to smiley-faces, but come Mythgen (and certain current mods) we're likely to be faced with dwarfless sites of procgen subterranean hippo people rather than dwarves. Leaving us with a choice of dorf-d, normal 'h' or back to smilies.
Post by: Taffer on March 14, 2019, 07:57:44 pm
Would you consider a whole alphabet of "dorfletters" (assuming new capabilities are bringing in multiple/big tileset support)?
I far prefer these to smiley-faces, but come Mythgen (and certain current mods) we're likely to be faced with dwarfless sites of procen subterranean hippo people rather than dwarves. Leaving us with a choice of dorf-d, normal 'h' or back to smilies.
Sure, when it becomes necessary. It might not be a bad idea to give goblins, humans, elves, and kobolds special letters at first. I'll see what works.
Post by: Rose on March 19, 2019, 10:56:58 am
Post by: Taffer on March 19, 2019, 08:15:36 pm
By that time, DF will have full graphics support, so maybe a new 9x9 set based on that?
I'll be making a 9x9 graphics set, yeah. Probably just in the same thread, though. I've been using it for 7 years so far, no point in stopping now.
Post by: Taffer on March 24, 2019, 03:40:54 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/WUoalkG.png)
Please speak up if you have anything to say. That's the only reason I even post the mockups. The rooms to the left are still engraved, and this time I've thrown in a bunch of dwarves, elves, kobolds, goblins, and humans to brawl and show off their new letters. Also, RIP diagonal walls. I'm happy to keep them but then the whole thing would have to tilt more towards ASCII: I can't have busy floor tiles with diagonal walls without leaving obvious gaps, and I can't have busy ground tiles IMO if I don't have busy floor tiles. Maybe a shift closer to ASCII (what I have for download now) is a good thing, though. Who knows, you tell me.
The engraved walls probably don't stand out enough, but maybe that's a feature.
Maybe 9x9 is too small for you, though.
(https://i.imgur.com/NXX9Rpy.png)
And for the "mockups are useless, get off my lawn" crowd, have the two tilesets used to stitch together the mockup.
(https://i.imgur.com/HpyIvjg.png) (https://i.imgur.com/zYHJRb9.png)
Keen observers will probably notice new stair, barrel, switch, hill, and trap graphics. The hills are terrible, though. Just note that there's a reason my tilesets weren't this way from the beginning, you'll have all kinds of stupid looking weirdness in places you don't expect it. Enjoy the magical barrel-shifting screw pumps.
Post by: CLA on March 24, 2019, 04:43:39 pm
Please speak up if you have anything to say. That's the only reason I even post the mockups.I'm always happy to see your work in progress. Really inspiring and shows how much effort you put into the tileset.
I think the grass is definitely an improvement in terms of contrast and noise. Although it seems surprisingly organic (i.e. round) compared to your general style. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just an observation. Tree/grass contrast is good enough considering how it's not that important.
Engraved walls are very subtle, not sure if that's my thing; I really liked the engraving you had in the mockup before (both walls and floor). It looks very unique and a very good fit to how your style evolved. Have you tried that kind of engraved wall design with orthogonal walls?.
The non-engraved floor in that mockup irritated me however. It tiles in a bad way. That is, it looks like it isn't supposed to tile, but it glaringly is. With the current-mockup non-engraved floor it shows that it's tiling, but it looks like it's on purpose and while obvious it doesn't steal focus.
The tile design itself is great, but it's a bit too low contrast with the walls for my tastes.
Looks like it's kinda difficult to distinguish between up, down and up/down stairs.
In general, the single-pixel patterns you started with the arabic-looking font had some very interesting and beautiful results as long as they stayed subtle and out of focus. the "+" floors with single pixel corners for example looked very good. Sometimes, they become too prominent and it becomes difficult to see the actual symbol; I think that's when they can turn from a very interesting style to a "legibility" issue.
tl;dr:
I'd make the non-engraved floor appear bit darker and play around some more with engravings.
Post by: Iliithid on April 01, 2019, 04:28:44 pm
Post by: August on April 13, 2019, 02:36:21 am
Anyways, I wanted to know your policy on modifying/using your tilesets outside of DF. I've started playing around with making a simple ascii game using SadConsole (https://github.com/SadConsole/SadConsole), just a small hobby project that I'll put up on Github at some point.
Sadconsole supports custom tilesets in a similar way to DF, and I would love to use your Traditional set as one of the visual style options. I looked at your Gitlab repository but you don't have a license attached. Are the Taffer sets Copyleft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft)? I would of course give you full attribution. Thanks for the info.
:)
Post by: Taffer on April 13, 2019, 09:25:52 am
Hi Taffer, I just wanted to start off by saying that I love your tilesets a ton. I've been using your Traditional set for years, probably since around 2015.
Anyways, I wanted to know your policy on modifying/using your tilesets outside of DF. I've started playing around with making a simple ascii game using SadConsole (https://github.com/SadConsole/SadConsole), just a small hobby project that I'll put up on Github at some point.
Sadconsole supports custom tilesets in a similar way to DF, and I would love to use your Traditional set as one of the visual style options. I looked at your Gitlab repository but you don't have a license attached. Are the Taffer sets Copyleft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft)? I would of course give you full attribution. Thanks for the info.
:)
License added to the repository. CC-BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). Thanks for asking!
Post by: August on April 13, 2019, 09:20:55 pm
License added to the repository. CC-BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). Thanks for asking!That's perfect, thanks!
Post by: Taffer on April 26, 2019, 05:20:04 pm
Sorry. Hopefully somebody is willing to up to maintain this.
Post by: feelotraveller on April 27, 2019, 05:55:02 am
The direction the tileset took over the last few months was both interesting and beautiful. 8)
Thank you so much for the efforts over the years, you will be missed. Have fun whatever you get up to. :)
Post by: Koumakan on April 28, 2019, 10:19:18 am
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2019, 05:03:49 pm
DF Revised will probably end up supported again as well, but that's significantly more work for me and there's a huge dictionary to slog through and clean up before I promise anything, and my willpower to work on it is low right now.
At least for now I'm dropping support for my creature graphics and I'm switching over entirely to 'dorfletters". This greatly simplifies support for me and let's me focus on other things.
My vision for the upcoming graphics support is "ASCII with benefits".
Post by: Meph on June 28, 2019, 05:52:43 pm
Quote
I'll update promptly when the update comes and I'll slowly prepare for better official graphics support.I'm always open for questions. If you are trying to prepare anything for the upcoming steam version, just send me a PM. :)
Post by: Taffer on June 28, 2019, 06:23:29 pm
Sorry to see you go. :'( Your walls are the best ever!
The direction the tileset took over the last few months was both interesting and beautiful. 8)
Thank you so much for the efforts over the years, you will be missed. Have fun whatever you get up to. :)
Thank you for the kind words, feelotraveller. I'll keep trying my best!
I've felt the same way for a while, it'll come back eventually, especially if that update drops any time soon.
Damn it, you were right. I can't help it. I didn't even play DF while I was gone.
I'm always open for questions. If you are trying to prepare anything for the upcoming steam version, just send me a PM. :)
Thank you for the kind offer. I'll probably be PMing you.
Post by: 0rion on July 15, 2019, 04:54:35 am
I'm in my yearly DF period, and as always the first thing I did (after installing DF) was setting up your tileset. So as usual I'm paying my yearly visit for thanking you for this tileset that I find so cute :)
Honestly the dwarf letters was an awesome idea, it makes so much sense to my eyes I find it more vanilla than vanilla itself. I use the sans-serif version with hollow straight walls. I do not use the Taffer colours though, because they are too far from vanilla in my opinion (e.g. gold is not yellow) and instead I use DawnBringer which is a nice balance and works well with Taffer's tileset.
Anyway, excellent work, and I'm happy that despite your recent lack of time/motivation you stick to the "ASCII with benefits" philosophy.
Thank you!
Post by: Mahdarah on July 17, 2019, 09:20:37 am
Post by: Taffer on July 19, 2019, 12:57:23 pm
Hi Taffer,
I'm in my yearly DF period, and as always the first thing I did (after installing DF) was setting up your tileset. So as usual I'm paying my yearly visit for thanking you for this tileset that I find so cute :)
Honestly the dwarf letters was an awesome idea, it makes so much sense to my eyes I find it more vanilla than vanilla itself. I use the sans-serif version with hollow straight walls. I do not use the Taffer colours though, because they are too far from vanilla in my opinion (e.g. gold is not yellow) and instead I use DawnBringer which is a nice balance and works well with Taffer's tileset.
Anyway, excellent work, and I'm happy that despite your recent lack of time/motivation you stick to the "ASCII with benefits" philosophy.
Thank you!
Welcome back! I think I deleted Dawnbringer because I thought nobody used it. I'll undo that. Thank you for your kind words.
Thanks for this tileset, it's exactly what I was looking for. Looks beautiful and maintains the ASCII
And thank you for the compliment! I'm happy you enjoy it.
Post by: Taffer on September 20, 2019, 10:47:36 pm
I'm willing to reconsider if I get enough complaints about it, to be honest, but I do hope people will at least give the dorfletters a try.
Post by: Droggarth on September 26, 2019, 04:41:45 pm
Mind you, non-ASCII colorful tilesets won't help me either as I still need that imaginative side working to piece together images of various npcs and events and whatnot to make sense of the game.
So, yeah. Got my own reasons why I'm inactive myself and can kinda relate. If it weren't for your tilesets, the game wouldn't feel the same. What I mean by that is I wouldn't be playing the game if only that vertically stretched vanilla ASCII was the only ASCII style to play the game with.
Something about the game's vanilla color-scheme and ASCII style makes me wanna proverbially scrape my eyes out.
Which is why I treasure using your tilesets with 'Taffer' color-scheme, I'm currently using the 18x18 sans-serif one with corner walls due to an headache I had a few months back, thought it would lessen it (the headache) and it kinda did.
Post by: Taffer on September 27, 2019, 07:51:59 pm
I seldom play this game these days due to mental issues with my diminished imaginative side as it makes playing the game hard to role-play when you no longer have a strong child-like way to make the world come alive from letters and if I do push myself to be more imaginative I just get an headache, sometimes mild, sometimes strong. Been beating myself over about it for months and months now because the game's still fun when my imagination is working.
Mind you, non-ASCII colorful tilesets won't help me either as I still need that imaginative side working to piece together images of various npcs and events and whatnot to make sense of the game.
So, yeah. Got my own reasons why I'm inactive myself and can kinda relate. If it weren't for your tilesets, the game wouldn't feel the same. What I mean by that is I wouldn't be playing the game if only that vertically stretched vanilla ASCII was the only ASCII style to play the game with.
Something about the game's vanilla color-scheme and ASCII style makes me wanna proverbially scrape my eyes out.
Which is why I treasure using your tilesets with 'Taffer' color-scheme, I'm currently using the 18x18 sans-serif one with corner walls due to an headache I had a few months back, thought it would lessen it (the headache) and it kinda did.
Thank you for the words of encouragement, Droggarth! I'm happy you can enjoy the game with my tilesets. Happy dorfing!
Post by: Taffer on September 30, 2019, 10:33:50 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/pNblTUy.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/WwHfJVc.gif)
I love this tileset but I wonder if I went a little overboard with the dots. Should I scale things back?
Post by: Koumakan on October 04, 2019, 12:16:19 am
Post by: Droggarth on October 04, 2019, 04:37:32 pm
Post by: Iliithid on October 06, 2019, 01:47:45 pm
Post by: Taffer on March 15, 2020, 09:03:04 pm
I'm not completely dead. Working on a new version. I'm adding shading back to the arabic tileset to help differentiate decoration from function, and I'm also bringing back nicer dirt and grass tiles at the slight expense of crisp punctuation. Possibly doing more.
I also received a report that the default Pastel colors have a grey that's hard to see. I'll see what I can do about that.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 15, 2020, 10:30:48 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/BtGEqxw.gif)Ooh, very nice.
I'm not completely dead. Working on a new version. I'm adding shading back to the arabic tileset to help differentiate decoration from function, and I'm also bringing back nicer dirt and grass tiles at the slight expense of crisp punctuation. Possibly doing more.
I also received a report that the default Pastel colors have a grey that's hard to see. I'll see what I can do about that.
Are you getting any info from anywhere on what might be technically possible post-Steam? Or are you going to have to wait and see?
If there are fundamental changes to how tilesets work, it'll be odd for a new version to come out and not be able to replace Curses with your set from day 1.
Post by: Taffer on March 15, 2020, 11:28:04 pm
I'm not completely sold yet on the new cyrillic walls.
(https://i.imgur.com/AiCgN3K.gif)
Double-sized next.
(https://i.imgur.com/zBDf4Br.gif)
Ooh, very nice.
Are you getting any info from anywhere on what might be technically possible post-Steam? Or are you going to have to wait and see?
If there are fundamental changes to how tilesets work, it'll be odd for a new version to come out and not be able to replace Curses with your set from day 1.
I really don't know a single thing about how the graphics will work post-Steam. Most of what I said in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7943406#msg7943406) post is still accurate if I do decide to go all out, I just don't want to promise anything at this point. My Dwarf Fortress work ethic hasn't exactly been stellar lately.
Post by: Taffer on March 19, 2020, 03:38:46 pm
Arabic got new walls shown above, and the "background pixels" on that tileset are now shaded gray to differentiate them. I also brought back the old rounded punctuation for nicer looking ground at the expense of crisp punctuation.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on March 24, 2020, 02:59:13 am
Updated for v0.47.04. Cyrillic retains the current walls; they're better than either of the two new ones I experimented with.Download button in opening post doesn't seem to work.
Arabic got new walls shown above, and the "background pixels" on that tileset are now shaded gray to differentiate them. I also brought back the old rounded punctuation for nicer looking ground at the expense of crisp punctuation.
Post by: Ziusudra on March 24, 2020, 03:15:06 am
Post by: Taffer on March 24, 2020, 07:42:13 am
Looks like the link should be https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/taffer/-/archive/v6.6/taffer-v6.6.zip
Thank you!
Post by: Homo carbonis on April 05, 2020, 09:11:04 am
Post by: Taffer on April 05, 2020, 03:19:03 pm
I'm a a long-time player and inveterate lurker but I always download your tileset when there is a new version of df to play and thought I should log in to say thanks before downloading the latest version. It strikes just the right balance between being abstract enough not to feel as though someone else's ideas of what things should look like are being imposed on you, and yet pleasing to look at (and square). Also it still looks good zoomed in on my HiDPI laptop screen.
Thank you so much for the kind words. If you ever have any requests or suggestions, let me know! I feed on critique.
My work might end up changing a lot when the Steam apocalypse happens, but I'll try to continue striking a nice balance.
Post by: Taffer on April 05, 2020, 09:36:50 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/9YBylgZ.png)
Once more, only embiggened.
(https://i.imgur.com/FbxPj8Q.png)
Post by: jecowa on April 05, 2020, 10:48:11 pm
Q: rectangular menu font?
A: heresy.
Can we have little a rectangular font, as a treat?
Spoiler: arena (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: about (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: tilesheet (click to show/hide)
Shaving off a pixel helps with readability.
Post by: Taffer on April 05, 2020, 10:54:44 pm
Can we have little a rectangular font, as a treat?
...
Shaving off a pixel helps with readability.
(https://i.imgur.com/kMe1SXT.jpg)
Seriously though, maybe. It depends on how well the implementation actually works in-game. If it ends up with creature descriptions and menu screens obviously off-center or something then probably not. Otherwise, sure.
Post by: Taffer on April 05, 2020, 11:29:39 pm
I'm also obsessed with the initial concept for grass/plant graphics
I think the grass is definitely an improvement in terms of contrast and noise. Although it seems surprisingly organic (i.e. round) compared to your general style. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just an observation. Tree/grass contrast is good enough considering how it's not that important.
Better, CLA? Still like it, Iliithid? New grass is a little less round. Still has less noise and contrast than the original grass. Kind of a compromise between this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7943406#msg7943406) and this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7948535#msg7948535).
(https://i.imgur.com/fGb1uRf.png)
Embiggened:
(https://i.imgur.com/MrT3nrB.png)
Tileset:
(https://i.imgur.com/H4C81RL.png)
I'm always happy to see your work in progress. Really inspiring and shows how much effort you put into the tileset.
Still makes me smile. :) Thanks again for the kind words, and even bigger thanks for all the detailed critique you gave me.
The non-engraved floor in that mockup irritated me however. It tiles in a bad way. That is, it looks like it isn't supposed to tile, but it glaringly is. With the current-mockup non-engraved floor it shows that it's tiling, but it looks like it's on purpose and while obvious it doesn't steal focus.
The tile design itself is great, but it's a bit too low contrast with the walls for my tastes.
(https://i.imgur.com/wIRs0lE.png)
Better, CLA? Maybe the current (v6.6.0) arabic floors are better as you suggested, but I'm still curious about having a diagonal floor pattern.
(https://i.imgur.com/mZkM9VG.png)
Engraved floors.
(https://i.imgur.com/wtKFH9M.png)
Embiggened.
(https://i.imgur.com/epUQRJM.png)
Engraved walls are very subtle, not sure if that's my thing; I really liked the engraving you had in the mockup before (both walls and floor). It looks very unique and a very good fit to how your style evolved. Have you tried that kind of engraved wall design with orthogonal walls?
...
I'd make the non-engraved floor appear bit darker and play around some more with engravings.
Here's my best shot so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/lvgipry.png)
Kind of gets the point across but doesn't really have the beauty of the current diagonal walls.
(https://i.imgur.com/D21pEqr.png)
At least it has an okay full-wall tiling pattern.
(https://i.imgur.com/unaAp7L.png)
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the new engraved walls. They're growing on me.
(https://i.imgur.com/rQ2dZzB.png)
Post by: CLA on April 06, 2020, 08:16:05 am
Honestly it looks great. you don't notice it's tiling (i.e. it doesn't repeat in an unpleasing way), you can still recognize the underlying tile structure, and fits very very well with your art style - I think not just with a specific tileset of yours but your art style in general. As you say, you hit a good compromise between the two versions from before. So you definitely have a winner there.
Except, well, it doesn't look like grass; it looks like leaves. Have you considered using it for that instead?
Regarding the walls/floors, the first thing that comes to my mind is that the full-wall tiling patterns look very good. The 15 degree rotated square pattern from an earlier post (in the gif, not sure which one that is) and the last one you posted especially look very nice. Have you considered using that as floor tiles? maybe inverted to increase the contrast between walls/floors. Just as an experiment, because full-wall tiling is reasonably rare in the game and it would be a shame to see these so rarely.
The diagonal floor tiles themselves also look good now. In the enlarged view they look a bit disjointed, but at original zoom level that makes them reveal the tile layout nicely. I'd say it makes a simple and elegant impression. Constructed walls still look great. Engravings make the distinction between floors and walls less clear. I feel like a lot of what makes the non-engraved walls/floors look really good gets lost in the engraved state. It's not an easy problem though.
Looking back at the floors here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7948535#msg7948535), the engraved ones looked like they would look nice with the simple diagonal ones you have here. That is, leave the engraved floors as they were there and use the non-engraved ones from your new post.
I'm still not liking the previous "crenelated"-looking engraved walls, though. What if you take the constructed walls as engraved and instead simplify them to get to the constructed walls? For example, remove the middle line frome the non-engraved walls? I'm not sure if I described that well enough, so for reference here's a mockup on how that would look. two versions of non engraved walls. I think I prefer the bottom. I tried to do something similar once, but with 18x18 it didn't work out.
(https://i.imgur.com/4DbzPy8.png)
Quote from: Taffer
My vision for the upcoming graphics support is "ASCII with benefits".Right. I think ASCII-like tilesets can benefit a lot from the improved graphics support. Even if it's just separating text (punctuation, X, ...) from the rest of the tileset. There's a lot on my todo list that I can't wait to try.
Post by: Meph on April 06, 2020, 12:06:23 pm
Ever thought about using TWBT till then, making unique sprites for a few more objects?
(https://i.imgur.com/CTw4FDs.png)
Post by: Taffer on April 06, 2020, 12:38:10 pm
If either of you has any questions about things that can be done, I'd be happy to help.
Thank you for the offer! Does this mockup (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg8119947#msg8119947) look like it should be possible with the new version? For example, are the underground edge tiles in Toady's preview (https://bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/march_26_ramps1.png) generic dirt or will they differ depending on the type of soil? It's kind of hard to tell in my preview but the underground edge tiles are exactly what they would be, just with a dithered overlay.
Can we have little a rectangular font, as a treat?It depends on how well the implementation actually works in-game. If it ends up with creature descriptions and menu screens obviously off-center or something then probably not. Otherwise, sure.
...
Shaving off a pixel helps with readability.
How will creature descriptions and full-screen menus work, if (for example) the interface font is 8x9 and the game font is 9x9?
9x9 80 tiles wide is 720 pixels, while 8x9 80 tiles wide is 640 pixels. If the creature description is drawn starting from the left edge of the screen, would there be an 80 pixel gap on the right-hand side?
Also, when I set the DF window to anything over 80x25 and use a colour scheme with a non-black background, there's a jarring difference between the "black" of the intro and the "pure black" outside the movie window. Do you know if that's going to get fixed?
(https://i.imgur.com/7fXuvgK.png)
I may as well throw in a selfish suggestion, even if it's futile. This might be a good time for Toady to revisit dark green (https://gitlab.com/dwarf-fortress/revised/-/blob/master/raw/objects/descriptor_color_standard.txt#L170). Honestly the whole "keep track of the true RGB colours of everything and map it to the palette" is a little odd to begin with when you're using the palette system, it just results in weird bugs like this one. If a player wants blue to be green and green to be blue in their palette, DF shouldn't try to correct them (IMO).
The 9x9 is amazing and the main reason I never made a tiny/ascii set. It just couldn't compare to what you've already done.
Thank you!
Ever thought about using TWBT till then, making unique sprites for a few more objects?
(https://i.imgur.com/CTw4FDs.png)
I've thought about it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161832.msg7757108#msg7757108), but the honest truth is that it's always sounded too unstable for me. I genuinely appreciate all the work that's gone into it, but as a "clean code, good security practices" OpenBSD and Linux hipster the idea of memory editing a running program has always sounded too fragile for my taste. I'm surprised Windows even allows the behaviour; I recall I had to disable security features in Fedora Linux to get dfhack working. Besides, I honestly don't know if I have it in me to put in all the work for a TWBT tileset only to burn it down again when the Steam release happens.
Unique sprites for items is definitely on the todo list though! I like your sample sprites. 9x9 isn't a lot of space to work with but I'll do what I can. This Tocky screenshot (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/0/00/Df_tock10_1.PNG) got me interested in Dwarf Fortress to begin with and it would be nice to have things like the little bed and barrel tiles again without visual glitches.
The only thing off the table for me is creature graphics, apart from what I've shown in this preview (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107924.msg7948535#msg7948535). I honestly don't think a decent looking, complete creature graphics set is possible at 9x9. Not without heavy repetition and over-reliance on smileys. It would probably also involve colouring the creatures myself, but I want to continue to use the colour theme system. There's a kind of elegant simplicity IMO in using a strict set of colours. (I suppose that's also a question, will I be able to use the old palette system while also using the newer graphical features?)
Post by: Koumakan on April 06, 2020, 12:40:38 pm
Post by: Meph on April 06, 2020, 01:08:07 pm
Quote
Thank you for the offer! Does this mockup look like it should be possible with the new version? For example, are the underground edge tiles in Toady's preview generic dirt or will they differ depending on the type of soil?Yes, that should work.
The soil you can set yourself. Atm it looks like we will go with a generic soil, one clay and one sand, because they have different uses.
Quote
How will creature descriptions and full-screen menus work, if (for example) the interface font is 8x9 and the game font is 9x9?Haven't done any UI yet, but that should work fine.
Quote
Also, when I set the DF window to anything over 80x25 and use a colour scheme with a non-black background, there's a jarring difference between the "black" of the intro and the "pure black" outside the movie window. Do you know if that's going to get fixed?Is that only on the intro video?
Quote
I may as well throw in a selfish suggestion, even if it's futile. This might be a good time for Toady to revisit dark green. Honestly the whole "keep track of the true RGB colours of everything and map it to the palette" is a little odd to begin with when you're using the palette system, it just results in weird bugs like this one. If a player wants blue to be green and green to be blue in their palette, DF shouldn't try to correct them (IMO).I think the colors might see some changes.
Quote
Unique sprites for items is definitely on the todo list though! I like your sample sprites. 9x9 isn't a lot of space to work with but I'll do what I can. This Tocky screenshot got me interested in Dwarf Fortress to begin with and it would be nice to have things like the little bed and barrel tiles again without visual glitches.I noticed while making the little weapons. I just recently made some 9x12 icons for stockpile signs, it's not much space...
Quote
I honestly don't think a decent looking, complete creature graphics set is possible at 9x9. Not without heavy repetition and over-reliance on smileys. It would probably also involve colouring the creatures myself, but I want to continue to use the colour theme system. There's a kind of elegant simplicity IMO in using a strict set of colours. (I suppose that's also a question, will I be able to use the old palette system while also using the newer graphical features?)Differently colored smilies, for humanoids, bovines, ursines, felines, etc could work.
Ehm, maybe? Toady just started coding, can't say much about that.
Post by: Taffer on April 06, 2020, 01:37:28 pm
The soil you can set yourself. Atm it looks like we will go with a generic soil, one clay and one sand, because they have different uses.
Thanks for confirming! Looks like I need to redo my mockup, I'd thought there'd be one for each type of soil/clay/sand. It looks cleaner this way anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/7VT97Qd.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/L22XclL.png)
I assume that if the bit of stone at the bottom left is microcline, I'd be able to color it blue?
Is that only on the intro video?
So far as I know, yes.
Ehm, maybe? Toady just started coding, can't say much about that.
Fair. It's too early to tell most things, I'm just excited. Thanks again for the answers.
Post by: Sasquatch on April 25, 2020, 11:12:05 am
Would someone be willing to help me replace the d for dorf to the shaded beard dorfs from curses square? I attempted this, but when I load taffer 18x18 into GIMP it tells me taffer.png has an embedded color profile, and no matter if I keep or convert, I lose the beard shading when I paste in the curses beardy dorfs.
I really like this tileset, but I want those shady bearded bastards! They're the only ones who don't smile at me. Thx in advance for any assistance given.
Post by: Taffer on April 25, 2020, 11:14:04 am
I attempted this, but when I load taffer 18x18 into GIMP it tells me taffer.png has an embedded color profile, and no matter if I keep or convert, I lose the beard shading when I paste in the curses beardy dorfs.
Image > Mode > RGB, then paste.
Post by: Sasquatch on April 25, 2020, 11:31:28 am
Post by: Taffer on April 25, 2020, 11:59:20 am
Nice! Tyvm. I got them in. Excellent tileset sir! (I don't remember if I told you that years back :D)
Thank you for the compliment! I'm glad you enjoy it.
Post by: neo6633 on April 29, 2020, 09:45:48 am
(https://i.imgur.com/mIH4hti.png)
I dont know why my Engraved floors look like that. Not above.
init.txt, d_init.txt, colors.txt installed to .\PeridexisErrant's Starter Pack 0.47.04-r041\LNP\graphics\Taffer_diagonal-walls_18x18\data\init
And installed in LNP.
Post by: Taffer on April 29, 2020, 10:22:03 am
I dont know why my Engraved floors look like that. Not above.
Those are mockups rather than images of a released version. I've been doing a bit of planning for what I want things to look like after the Steam release happens. Sorry for the confusion!
Post by: Senescent on April 29, 2020, 03:48:29 pm
I think the tileset you posted on the 5th with the new grass is beautiful. I'd love to use it but 9x9 is just a bit too tiny for me to comfortably use. Would it be possible to get that version in 18x18?
Regardless, keep up the great work!
Post by: Taffer on April 29, 2020, 04:04:56 pm
I'm just getting back into Dwarf Fortress after an extended break and I'm super happy to see you're still working on this tileset. I've always hopped between this and CLA as I love them both so much.
The kind words are appreciated. Thank you.
I think the tileset you posted on the 5th with the new grass is beautiful. I'd love to use it but 9x9 is just a bit too tiny for me to comfortably use. Would it be possible to get that version in 18x18?
Regardless, keep up the great work!
No problem, here it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/0W5EUg6.png)
Just note that the warning below still applies. This tileset was created as a mockup to prepare for the Steam release, not for the current version of the game. If you have any feedback or critique, please let me know. It's why I post mockups.
Keen observers will probably notice new stair, barrel, switch, hill, and trap graphics. The hills are terrible, though. Just note that there's a reason my tilesets weren't this way from the beginning, you'll have all kinds of stupid looking weirdness in places you don't expect it. Enjoy the magical barrel-shifting screw pumps.
Post by: Droggarth on May 02, 2020, 02:56:51 am
(https://i.imgur.com/epUQRJM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/D21pEqr.png)
Both have their own charms that I like. If I had to choose, I'd choose the latter for that ornate cozy feel.
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2020, 11:25:36 pm
Post by: Koumakan on May 08, 2020, 07:11:39 pm
Post by: Droggarth on May 12, 2020, 06:17:47 pm
Post by: Iliithid on May 19, 2020, 11:25:57 am
Post by: Taffer on June 18, 2020, 11:25:33 am
Post by: evthestrike on June 21, 2020, 08:50:35 pm
I experimented with the stairs and tried an approach similar to Gemset https://imgur.com/onH6y5n (https://imgur.com/onH6y5n)
Post by: Taffer on June 22, 2020, 10:07:05 am
I have been playing with your steam tileset for a bit, and I think that the stairs are not very readable. The down stairs look like up stairs to me and vice versa. The up/down stairs also look somewhat like down stairs to me. I love the new ground tiles, and the levers and walls look nice. Good job so far!
I experimented with the stairs and tried an approach similar to Jecowa's Gemset https://imgur.com/onH6y5n (https://imgur.com/onH6y5n)
Thank you not only for the detailed feedback, but also for the mockup. It helps.
I edited things a bit to compromise between your suggestions and the original design. Is this better?
(https://i.imgur.com/Qx17U9i.png)
Post by: evthestrike on June 22, 2020, 12:36:44 pm
Post by: evthestrike on June 22, 2020, 10:10:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: VsTape on October 18, 2020, 08:14:11 am
Post by: Taffer on December 28, 2020, 11:28:59 am
(https://i.imgur.com/d6CHJvr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FHmKo55.png)
Embiggened.
(https://i.imgur.com/BXdaZcv.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/n08D7gp.png)
Post by: Krabocopter on January 01, 2021, 09:08:43 am
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on January 01, 2021, 09:19:50 pm
Post by: Sugardust on June 08, 2021, 07:17:02 pm
Post by: Taffer on July 03, 2021, 08:45:33 am
I won't promise to create a new set as mocked up above, but realistically I'm at least more likely to update my tilesets for the big release than Revised.
Post by: ror6ax on September 02, 2021, 04:30:45 am
Post by: Benevolent_Jesus on November 23, 2021, 02:12:54 am
But I've hit a wall. I wanted to make the tileset TWBT compatible, nbut failed. I also wanted to know how did you make your ramps so sexy on that one screenshot from two pages prior.
As I was saying, not sure if you'll ever read it, but thank you for your work for us.
Post by: Fleeting Frames on November 24, 2021, 02:56:15 pm
Not sure what you mean by TWBT compatible, either. Editing the art used in punctuation and words?
Post by: Taffer on November 25, 2021, 08:28:09 pm
Taffer, I'm not sure if you'll read this, but I love your tilesets. They're my absolute favourite. Since you've retired I've taken your tileset and kitbashed it for my own use to learn how things work.
But I've hit a wall. I wanted to make the tileset TWBT compatible, nbut failed. I also wanted to know how did you make your ramps so sexy on that one screenshot from two pages prior.
As I was saying, not sure if you'll ever read it, but thank you for your work for us.
It was a mock-up, unfortunately. I’ve never been interested in using TWBT. Not because I don’t like it’s features, but because I don’t like relying on memory-editing third party utilities.
I haven’t been following development, but I was creating mock-ups because whatever new system I’d need to “port” my graphics to and work in, I’m confident I’ll have way more trouble drawing than “coding”. By that logic I never needed to wait for the big steam release to start development, I figured I’d get some of the design work done early.
As far as graphics for the current version go, what’s in the OP is the best I got.
EDIT: I feel like I started rambling and got cranky as I wrote this. I didn’t want to delete it though as it might help explain why I left, lol. I’ll just hide the complaining in a spoiler tag instead.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: 0rion on March 28, 2022, 10:47:37 am
Coming back one more time to Dwarf Fortress! Since I began by installing your tileset (again), I thought I would pay you a visit :)
It's been a while since the last time but it seems I always come back at some point. I'm a bit sad you got tired of working on the tileset, but hey, in my opinion it is already as good as it can get!
I noticed I can have it work with TWBT. Not sure if I prefer this to vanilla (I know you don't), I'll try for some time.
Hoping you will read this, thank you!
PS: I finally moved to the Taffer colours ;)
Hi Taffer,
I'm in my yearly DF period, and as always the first thing I did (after installing DF) was setting up your tileset. So as usual I'm paying my yearly visit for thanking you for this tileset that I find so cute :)
Honestly the dwarf letters was an awesome idea, it makes so much sense to my eyes I find it more vanilla than vanilla itself. I use the sans-serif version with hollow straight walls. I do not use the Taffer colours though, because they are too far from vanilla in my opinion (e.g. gold is not yellow) and instead I use DawnBringer which is a nice balance and works well with Taffer's tileset.
Anyway, excellent work, and I'm happy that despite your recent lack of time/motivation you stick to the "ASCII with benefits" philosophy.
Thank you!
Post by: flyteofheart on December 23, 2022, 12:56:19 pm
whenever we get the ability, I plan on installing taffer again and never looking back :) Iv been using this probably since 2012 when you posted the topic. to me it IS vanilla df haha.
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 23, 2022, 05:47:43 pm
All I want for Christmas is the ability to put this tileset on the premium version. The classic ascii option works but putting tilesets on top of it failed horribly when I tried earlier.10x10 Taffer worked OK for me (but is too small for my monitor).
whenever we get the ability, I plan on installing taffer again and never looking back :) Iv been using this probably since 2012 when you posted the topic. to me it IS vanilla df haha.
18x18 pretty much works. Had to make BASIC_FONT curses 16x16 or the worldgen buttons were not clickable, but into the game and it's looking OK so far (albeit with some letters slightly cut off at the bottom right now).
No option to replace the trees in 50.x though.