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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: redwallzyl on March 06, 2016, 09:28:12 pm

Title: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: redwallzyl on March 06, 2016, 09:28:12 pm
looks like its finally coming out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed8tDwuKphY

looks like an upgraded m&b with lots of customization.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 06, 2016, 09:43:11 pm
While we were using the Mount & Blade thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=49101.0) to discuss the updates to the game, as it's not released yet, I'm not opposed to a new topic. Unfortunately there's not much to say aside from speculating and commenting on what's been released until the game is actually in our hands. With that said I have yet to watch the video, which I'll go do now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 06, 2016, 09:59:33 pm
This is my most anticipated game of 2016 beating out Black Desert and The Division, both games that gave me nerd boners.

This video has made me jump on the hype train and strap myself down with iron chains. Choo choo, muthafuckers!

PTW.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on March 06, 2016, 10:29:25 pm
PTW and to say that supposedly the first version of Bannerlord will hit in late 2016.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Furtuka on March 06, 2016, 10:36:02 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 06, 2016, 10:50:15 pm
Okay, watching the video. The game does look prettier but it seems a bit more 'brown' than Warband. Not a huge deal but still noticeable.
I hope that character customization is a thing you can do mid-game, minus changing gender (gender matters quite a bit in Calradia). In Warband you could change your face whenever you wanted after character creation.

I'm noticing that swing speed and thrust speed for weapons are now separate statistics, and weapons have a lot more statistics in general now. Not to mention the whole crafting thing making it possible for many unique looking weapons. It'd be cool if you found some swords on your fallen enemies, and they're all the same type of sword but have different features (pommel, crossguard, etc.) to make things less samey. There is even an inspect screen so you can look at your shiny gear. It'd be better if they included something for scale in that screen.

There is now a fast forward button directly on the overworld.
When you start a battle the default tactic for your troops isn't "charge at enemy until dead" anymore.
The enemy AI knows when they're outnumbered and need to hold high ground, and when they're on the defensive they will make you come to them.
Ordering your troops now shows flags showing the approximate location your troops will occupy, which is pretty great.
The battle continues even after you die get knocked out by an axe to your skull.
You can get an idea of how a battle is going via a 'score screen' of sorts.
You can now actually compare equipment so you can see if what you're about to equip is better than what is already equipped.

This is only what's coming from the dev's mouth, haven't seen it in the video, but apparently units will 'push' at each other passively. I'm not 100% sure what this means for gameplay unless I see it in action. If it is what I think it is then it's a pretty neat feature. I always figured that people should have a 'personal space' in which they allow friendlies to move through freely but prevent hostiles from moving through so that moving around feels better, especially in tighter spaces. Essentially a collision box specifically for friendlies that is a bit smaller than normal yet a bit bigger for enemies.

Apparently defeating enemy lords actually serves a purpose aside from bringing them down to 0 troops for a while. Now they actually have to use the game's dynamic economy to raise troops and funds. An economy which you can screw with and make things even harder for them, even.

So, at the moment, I really wish they used the weapon crafting for more than weapons. Personalized armor would be pretty great, especially if you could make armor that's better against slashing, piercing, or blunt weapons depending on if you knew an opponent uses a lot of a certain weapon type. Aside from that everything looks good so far.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on March 07, 2016, 12:12:48 am
HYPE!

And now I want to play as a criminal who makes it his lifes mission to troll the absolute balls off of one lord forever.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2016, 12:23:47 am
Really looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on March 07, 2016, 01:23:26 am
Hey, I liked Bannerlord before it was cool and bought M&B when it was 0.497. *adjusts hipster glasses and twirls mustache* Anyway, I hope Bannerlord holds up to the expectations and I hope they've made multiplayer more interesting.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 07, 2016, 02:08:54 am
I can't wait to see what they've done with multiplayer myself. Supposedly M&B2 will be easier to mod than the originals, so I expect to see some really cool multiplayer stuff. I am curious how easy it will be to mod in 'vehicles' and such that don't behave like reskinned horses.
I also want to know what kind of 'expansions' the game will have. Will there be an updated Napoleonic Wars, for example? Perhaps a gamemode where you 'control' a section of the army with the movement keys as if they were one unit and have line battles that way?

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but yeah... multiplayer should be great with mods... it's just a question as to how good it will be in native. Have they even really discussed multiplayer that much?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 07, 2016, 02:36:06 am
I want to see multiplayer where two people can have parties and travel around in the same world.

Dynamic economy sounds delicious, much nicer than beat king -> king comes back with 10000000 dudes -> beat king again -> king comes back with another 100000000000 dudes -> etc.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 07, 2016, 03:20:42 am
There are mods for Warband where you host a multiplayer match when you get into battle and your friends can join as your companions. I don't know how easy it would be to have two or more players roaming around the same map simultaneously given how the game pauses every time you stop, unless you want the game to keep running while in the party menu etc. which could become troublesome especially when trying to run away from bad guys.

The way Strategus handled it was it was a sort of realtime-ish 2d map but you'd essentially manage a couple things then tell your party to move somewhere, then it would take them a few real-time hours to get anywhere (so check back next day basically). When a battle occurred a notification gets posted and people have the option to join the battle and pick a side for about a day or so. Then when the battle is scheduled you got the ~100 people together (depending on the battle size) and each side has access to the equipment that party carried, and the troop size dictated how many respawns were available.

It was a pretty clumsy way of doing things and it wasn't exactly ideal, but it's the closest thing I've seen that was "singleplayer Mount & Blade with multiplayer." Plus the way Warband can even handle ~100 players a server or more and not be horrendously laggy at all times is still impressive to me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on March 07, 2016, 01:23:35 pm
Kinda amusing how for all the early indications they were about to do some sweeping changes, in the end it's essentially old M&B, except prettier and with some neat features and a lot of integrated popular mod features.

I'm not complaining, mind you - that means it's still keeping the good parts and improving on them, and is not a whole different animal.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Drakale on March 07, 2016, 01:32:48 pm
That cavalry charge, wow. I wonder what the max unit limit will be like for a decent system.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on March 07, 2016, 01:54:34 pm
Kinda amusing how for all the early indications they were about to do some sweeping changes, in the end it's essentially old M&B, except prettier and with some neat features and a lot of integrated popular mod features.

I'm not complaining, mind you - that means it's still keeping the good parts and improving on them, and is not a whole different animal.

From what they've said, the biggest changes will be in how sieges and such work, which is something that can only improve from Warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: miljan on March 07, 2016, 02:14:41 pm
Cavalry charge looks impressive. The thing that lacks to me is that melee combat looks somewhat floaty without good impact feedback from the thing I saw on the beginning of the video
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: kulik on March 07, 2016, 02:27:29 pm
Was hoping for a refurbished combat system, maybe something in the direction that Exanima is heading.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 07, 2016, 02:48:57 pm
Was hoping for a refurbished combat system, maybe something in the direction that Exanima is heading.

That would break the game sadly. Multiplayer would be essentially impossible.

Cavalry charge looks impressive. The thing that lacks to me is that melee combat looks somewhat floaty without good impact feedback from the thing I saw on the beginning of the video

But then, there was never good impact feedback unless you got knocked down. Just a stun.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on March 07, 2016, 04:26:06 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 07, 2016, 04:53:01 pm
Getting hit had okay feedback, especially if you got hit with a polearm (the infamous polestun). However, hitting people has always felt... lacking. When you make contact with your target your weapon simply passes through them as if they weren't even there. The only reason I can tell I'm hitting people is because of the puff of blood, and sometimes the thud or slash sound. In one of the videos for Bannerlord the player slashed at an enemy next to a rock, and after he had hit the enemy his weapon got stopped by the rock, making the swing look more convincing.

As for melee combat, I would've liked to have seen more than 4 attack directions, just for some variety. You know, something like...
(http://share.gifyoutube.com/mL7aD7.gif)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2016, 04:57:20 pm
TBH the more I look at BL, the more it just looks like straight M&B 2.0. Which is ok. I just got the impression that it would be...more differenter. But the UI, animations, cities really are just a cleaned up version of M&B. Right down to the "That one guy who is always standing in that one spot in every inn."
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mattk50 on March 07, 2016, 05:10:57 pm
I've played games that used to have the blade stop on a hit, then they went and removed it just to make it pass through with a shitty blood spatter effect. I don't understand why developers do this but they're all out of thier minds.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: miauw62 on March 07, 2016, 05:36:49 pm
Yeah, that's ok.

Just makes you wonder what took them so long :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on March 07, 2016, 07:33:13 pm
Kinda amusing how for all the early indications they were about to do some sweeping changes, in the end it's essentially old M&B, except prettier and with some neat features and a lot of integrated popular mod features.

I'm not complaining, mind you - that means it's still keeping the good parts and improving on them, and is not a whole different animal.
The "Sweeping changes" seem to be occurring more in the simulation side of things then the battle side of things. I.E. the one place that was severely lacking in the first games.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: QuakeIV on March 07, 2016, 07:38:06 pm
Dunno about you guys but that looks awesome.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2016, 07:54:27 pm
I feel like the thread needs a cheeky subtitle to reflect all this prudent observation on our parts :P

Part of the feels for me was due to the shit quality of the shoulder-cam video. The stuff they showed off in earlier devblogs looked really nice. The linked video was a blurry mess that was discernibly Mount and Blade but little else. I'm not saying a full resolution would make those very Mount & Blade style menus, or the "now everyone charge the last guy in battle and then stand there cheering" battle flow look any newer.....but it might make us appreciate the polish a little more.

In the end I was kind of the most disappointed by the world map. To be fair its got more identifiable geological morphology than M&B's gentle sloping hill and that looked interesting. The cities and the city details look nice and already had me fantasizing about drawing defensive and strategic lines. But somehow the dude riding the horse still looked exactly like M&B to me and somehow I expected something shinier, though I couldn't say how to achieve it.

I wonder if they've learned how to screen fade instead of letting each game screen awkwardly cut to the next too :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mech#4 on March 07, 2016, 08:45:22 pm
I do enjoy Mount and Blade, though I think like nenjin I have difficulty knowing what exactly could be improved.

In MB: Warband, Something about the environments looks... boring? They don't really look normal with the steep hill lumps and deep rivers carved into the land. I think part of it is Mount and Blade doesn't have it's own visual style, everything looks generic medieval. None of the lords of Warband stand out as being different, no one you could point out as being "That warmonger who causes problems" or "that pious one who spends all his time protecting his villages".

If there was one thing I'd want them to improve it would be battle controls. The way in Warband that units charge in a clump at each other, yelling the whole time, and how using formations isn't useful because of this. Using the function keys to position units around the map. I don't understand the games angle, are you supposed to be leading soldiers or a group of rabble?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 07, 2016, 09:02:18 pm
The problem with M&B's battle maps were that they were for the most part randomly generated, and it tends to general unnatural looking steep hills and valleys, almost like mini-mountains peaks in the middle of a 'plain'.

I saw some footage of Rome: Total War (the first game) and it seems like that game handles battle maps by literally using the overworld and simply cordoning off a square section of it once the battle starts. It made sense and was actually pretty neat. If you engaged someone with a river and a mountain, you knew that there would be a river and mountain in those spots before the battle even began. If they managed to do something similar I'd be okay with that, but somehow I doubt it.

As for formations, the 'pushing' they mentioned might make formations viable, bnut I don't know if it'll be limited to rectangles or how in-depth it could get.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2016, 09:29:48 pm
Yeah, it always kind of bothered me on an unconscious level, how terrain in MB wasn't predictable even though you might be fighting guys in the same patch of land for ever. Sure it's sandy in the sandy areas, foresty in the forests and snowy in the snowy areas. But the battle maps always felt random.

Quote
Using the function keys to position units around the map. I don't understand the games angle, are you supposed to be leading soldiers or a group of rabble?

I can't tell if it looks better or just different in BL. At first I was like 'oh cool, positioning lines with the mouse." But as the battle wore on and I saw the commands list on the left I felt like I'll probably just be mashing more function keys during a hectic battle with the same more or less sloppy results in positioning. If anything, just being able to tell your whole army "stand here" will just make more blobbing inevitable since the game facilitates it easier but anything more controlled still appears pretty fiddly.

It's the kind of thing that would work with MP. One player managing the army, the other leading the charge when it's ready.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 07, 2016, 09:31:44 pm
I'm pretty sure you could use the mouse to position people too, at least that's the way I always did it. I think you have to hold the function key down.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on March 07, 2016, 09:37:50 pm
As for formations, the 'pushing' they mentioned might make formations viable, bnut I don't know if it'll be limited to rectangles or how in-depth it could get.
There was a point in the video, right after the cavalry charged him, where I could swear I saw horses being knocked over the battle line, like it was charging a solid wall.
Maybe that was an optical illusion or wishful thinking, but if what I saw IS representative then that bodes well for stopping cavalry charges as infantry.

Also hoping we get vanilla spear bracing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mech#4 on March 07, 2016, 09:55:22 pm
I'm pretty sure you could use the mouse to position people too, at least that's the way I always did it. I think you have to hold the function key down.

From what I remember, you could either bring up a semi opaque battle map that you could click on to move arrows representing units around, or you could hold down, say, F1, which would hover a flag over the landscape then let go of F1 to position the group represented by F1 at that location. Your units always face the enemies centre so your lines might end up moving through each other if the enemy does that circle maneuvering tactic.


I remember that with two A.I. controlled armies. They would line up and edge around in a spiral until they were within throwing distance, then charge.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JumpingJack on March 07, 2016, 11:18:08 pm
Oh hey, Bannerlord. Haven't been checking on it for a while and I'd kinda forgotten about it. Cool.

To be honest, I wasn't ever really any good with the actual "strategy" part of M&B, like issuing commands and such. Generally speaking I only ever legitimately won battles through sheer numbers. I can't even imagine how many little virtual people I led to an early grave.

Really excited for this! :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Chiefwaffles on March 08, 2016, 01:18:21 am
Really, I'm kind of disappointed in what I've seen.
But then again, I also have no idea what I was expecting. Still very excited and Bannerlord will be a day 1 buy, but I just wish it could, well, innovate? more.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on March 08, 2016, 01:38:43 am
Yeah, BL seems like M&B with better graphics and popular mods included. I don't know what I expected, but something more. I hope at least we get moving, capturable spawn points in multiplayer.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 08, 2016, 03:35:35 am
To be honest, I wasn't ever really any good with the actual "strategy" part of M&B, like issuing commands and such.
Probably because the strategy part was never very good. Usually just "stick your archers on the hill and your horsies on the flat, then run at the enemy until everyone on one side is dead"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: puke on April 13, 2016, 03:54:28 am
enthusiastic about:

affecting stability of towns by eliminating criminal elements and introducing police forces -- or introducing your own criminal elements.  I anticipate that moders will go crazy on this kind of stuff to build up the industry / trade / civics portion of the game.

could care less about:

playing as Arnie, Einstein, or Putin.  Is the super-custom avatar appearance so much of a selling point above other features, that it deserves that kind of development effort and resource consumption?

little bit let down about:

weapon customization.  Does not look like you can put polearm heads on sword handles, or sword blades on poles, or any other non-standard combination.  Looks like the earlier demo of more granular tweaks to width and length are out, and now you can just tweak "size" of each component.

Probably cant make FFVII style swords...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mattk50 on April 13, 2016, 06:46:54 am
The avatar customization and detail isn't something thats supposed to wow us, its something thats supposed to prevent people from going "why does this garbage look worse than oblivion".

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: puke on April 13, 2016, 07:06:18 am
Did Oblivion look bad? 

I feel like they could even regress the graphics a bit if it let them put more intelligence into the battles and life into the world. 

But I guess lots of people play it for the one-man-vs-army kinds of battles, and so maybe I'm in the minority for wanting more Crusader Kings 2 style politics and Eve / X3 style economics.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on April 13, 2016, 07:14:34 am
Character customization is something people would complain about if it didn't exist and something people will use to create outrageous portraits, then paste them all over teh internets -> free marketing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: LordBrassroast on April 13, 2016, 09:21:07 am
What I hope for is an updated Viking Conquest DLC, because I have about 100 hours logged into that bad boy. It's awesome. Only complaint would be "The Vikings aren't developed enough". Denmark has no islands and is just Jutland (the peninsula on top of Germany) when IRL it's mostly the islands, there's only a tiny bit of Norway, which wasn't unified at this point, and Sweden is totally missing. But I like the story mode inclusion and I had a ton of fun playing as a Danish Viking and a Saxon lord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on April 13, 2016, 01:01:49 pm
TBH the more I look at BL, the more it just looks like straight M&B 2.0. Which is ok. I just got the impression that it would be...more differenter. But the UI, animations, cities really are just a cleaned up version of M&B. Right down to the "That one guy who is always standing in that one spot in every inn."
I'm honestly cool with that. I love M&B already, so "M&B, but prettier, more complex, and with a bunch of problems fixed" sounds great.

Oh hey, Bannerlord. Haven't been checking on it for a while and I'd kinda forgotten about it. Cool.

To be honest, I wasn't ever really any good with the actual "strategy" part of M&B, like issuing commands and such. Generally speaking I only ever legitimately won battles through sheer numbers. I can't even imagine how many little virtual people I led to an early grave.

Really excited for this! :D
Hehe. I always won with Nord infantry, Rhodok crossbowmen, and running around kiting with a lance and bow. Kill their cav first and you can slowly grind down anything as long as you're not a siege attacker.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Geltor on April 13, 2016, 02:24:12 pm
im glad its just M&B 2.0, im pretty tired of having all of my favorite franchises reinvented and therefore ruined (diablo, hitman, etc..).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 13, 2016, 02:32:27 pm
im glad its just M&B 2.0, im pretty tired of having all of my favorite franchises reinvented and therefore ruined (diablo, hitman, etc..).

Can't wait for Mount & Musket 2!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on April 13, 2016, 05:25:39 pm
Probably cant make FFVII style swords...
One word. Mods.

They're not going to cater your ridiculous need of fantasy swords, no offense. But there will probably be mods for parts.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on April 13, 2016, 05:37:43 pm
There's a reason people didn't use FFVII style swords.

But yes, I'm really looking forward to seeing what kinds of mods there will be. There have been plenty of amazing mods for Warband, some so good that they were turned into expandalone sort of deals. I'm hoping the modding community is as active if not moreso than it was in the previous games.

Correct me if I'm wrong. but supposedly Taleworlds are trying to make as few things hard-coded in the game as possible just to make it more modable.
Does anyone remember the map editor they showed off way back? That thing looks amazing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mattk50 on April 13, 2016, 06:44:26 pm
Did Oblivion look bad?
For its time, kinda. But if it looked like oblivion today, heads would roll.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 13, 2016, 06:51:10 pm
Did Oblivion look bad?
For its time, kinda. But if it looked like oblivion today, heads would roll.

Nah, it was pretty awesome when it came out. It was only a couple of years down the line people realized we didn't all glow like yellow lightbulbs and that our skin didn't shine like ice.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 13, 2016, 07:11:10 pm
Oblivion's weirdness was mostly due to bad art/modelling rather than technical limitations.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on April 13, 2016, 07:11:33 pm
I'unno, Oblivion graphics in general were pretty praised, but IIRC the fuglyness of NPCs was commented on at launch.

E:
Oblivion's weirdness was mostly due to bad art/modelling rather than technical limitations.
True dat, there's facial modeling mods keeping to essentially vanilla models' specs that improve them so goddamn much.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on April 13, 2016, 07:46:50 pm
I'unno, Oblivion graphics in general were pretty praised, but IIRC the fuglyness of NPCs was commented on at launch.

E:
Oblivion's weirdness was mostly due to bad art/modelling rather than technical limitations.
True dat, there's facial modeling mods keeping to essentially vanilla models' specs that improve them so goddamn much.

Not a fan of the potato people of Cyrodill? They are a proud race.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 13, 2016, 08:47:52 pm
Have a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iObwq1WaxQ8).

Been at work so I haven't even gotten to look at it yet.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Persus13 on June 13, 2016, 09:25:51 pm
Well I'm hyped now.

Other than I'd probably get knocked unconscious halfway through.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 13, 2016, 09:44:44 pm
Yeah, that looks really good. I like the seige weapons; assuming it takes skill/time/equipment to assemble.

Other than I'd probably get knocked unconscious halfway through.
Don't feel bad, the guy playing there had to use the heal cheat half a dozen times too.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on June 13, 2016, 09:55:33 pm
He also didn't seem to know how to thrust.  I was wincing every time he smacked his sword against the crenellations and did no damage.

I did like the presence of my favorite aspect of the game, getting hit in the head by a random arrow before the battle even starts.  I got Daniel Fortescue'd a couple times in the original mount and blade, rolling in with my battalion of knights and getting shot in the brain before we're halfway across the field.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 13, 2016, 10:00:00 pm
I did like the presence of my favorite aspect of the game, getting hit in the head by a random arrow before the battle even starts.  I got Daniel Fortescue'd a couple times in the original mount and blade, rolling in with my battalion of knights and getting shot in the brain before we're halfway across the field.
fffffffffffUNK

"AUGH"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 13, 2016, 10:26:49 pm
Part of me was like "Ok, this is scripted, the player hasn't taken an arrow to the dome from downtown yet at least three guys next to him have cinematically been killed."

Then he charges the wall alone and I was like "Oh no ok, this is legit M&B." :P

Much hype. Minus the siege engineering it plays out pretty much like M&B sieges did. Right down to most of the fight being decided on the battlements.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 13, 2016, 10:34:58 pm
I wish they'd done a bit more to expand and improve upon the already stellar combat mechanics. Take that with a grain of salt, as I'm not really up to date with it all, but it seems to most be a graphical upgrade (battle wise.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 14, 2016, 12:43:52 am
I wish they'd done a bit more to expand and improve upon the already stellar combat mechanics. Take that with a grain of salt, as I'm not really up to date with it all, but it seems to most be a graphical upgrade (battle wise.)
I feel like swings actually have an impact now, since the game has gotten ragdolls. Or atleast it looks like they flinch appropriately when shot by an arrow which made me fall in love with the previous pc gamer footage. Don't forget they also added in that your swings can injure more than one person now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on June 14, 2016, 01:09:59 am
I'm very tickled by hearing the same voices and shouts (EVERYONE RECOGNIZES THE WOMAN'S "EEUGH").

Looks great! I was honestly okay with just M&B with a graphical upgrade. That they added these extra things makes things even better.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mech#4 on June 14, 2016, 01:41:25 am
I like that there's catapults and apparently walls can be damaged by them. Infantry climbing up ladders in file rather than the mess of shoving is very nice to see as well. Still some awkwardness in getting past your own guys around the battering ram but eh.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on June 14, 2016, 02:18:20 am
I like that there's catapults and apparently walls can be damaged by them. Infantry climbing up ladders in file rather than the mess of shoving is very nice to see as well. Still some awkwardness in getting past your own guys around the battering ram but eh.
They also got stuck around all the doors too while they looked up. I'm sure that kind of pathfinding issue will get fixed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 14, 2016, 03:39:50 am
UUUURGH
GRRRAAAAAAAHHH
GARRF
ARGHHH
YAAAAAH
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 14, 2016, 03:40:32 am
I like that there's catapults and apparently walls can be damaged by them. Infantry climbing up ladders in file rather than the mess of shoving is very nice to see as well. Still some awkwardness in getting past your own guys around the battering ram but eh.
They also got stuck around all the doors too while they looked up. I'm sure that kind of pathfinding issue will get fixed.
Or it might be an AI thing, they don't have to cram inside the gatehouse attempting to bash it when they can't reach it. Since there seems to be an indoor placement where you toss down naphta and rocks at people.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 14, 2016, 08:25:48 am
I really liked the javalins flying all over the place and bouncing off the castle wall, physics please.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 09:20:42 am
Did I not post to watch this?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Drakale on June 14, 2016, 09:35:07 am
I'm kinda hype for this, hopefully the modding community will take off like for the previous titles. I really hope it will come with it's own version of the awesome formation control mods for warband, it really changes everything.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 14, 2016, 09:55:57 am
I am also rather excited, I can't wait for Mount & Musket for M&B2.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on June 14, 2016, 10:21:29 am
Starting up M&B, god help me.

I'm trying to find an old mod I used to play almost exclusively, the game felt wrong when I didn't play it.  I don't remember exactly what it was called, it may have become the 1257 AD historical mod, but this one wasn't historical.

It definitely had a number in the 1257 range, and it was set in Calradia with modifications to suit that period.  It may have been farther back in time.  Limited, crusader era plate with can helmets and stuff, no maximilian or anything, no warhammers, nothing you wouldn't expect to see in the early medieval era.  Factions were changed to be more obviously whatever their historical basis was.  THe ones I remember most distinctly were Swadians became a Templar-style brotherhood, and Rhodoks were Italians with pavise crossbowmen
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: miauw62 on June 14, 2016, 10:36:31 am
I like it when sequels are just "well have the same game except prettier and also we fixed some annoying things"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on June 14, 2016, 10:40:36 am
I feel like M&B's the kind of thing where the fans would riot if they changed the formula.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on June 14, 2016, 10:42:04 am
I just noticed on the video that the 2H the dev was using actually slashed across multiple opponents. My hype has officially hit critical levels.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 14, 2016, 11:24:10 am
Starting up M&B, god help me.

I'm trying to find an old mod I used to play almost exclusively, the game felt wrong when I didn't play it.  I don't remember exactly what it was called, it may have become the 1257 AD historical mod, but this one wasn't historical.

It definitely had a number in the 1257 range, and it was set in Calradia with modifications to suit that period.  It may have been farther back in time.  Limited, crusader era plate with can helmets and stuff, no maximilian or anything, no warhammers, nothing you wouldn't expect to see in the early medieval era.  Factions were changed to be more obviously whatever their historical basis was.  THe ones I remember most distinctly were Swadians became a Templar-style brotherhood, and Rhodoks were Italians with pavise crossbowmen

1200?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on June 14, 2016, 11:36:21 am
Starting up M&B, god help me.

I'm trying to find an old mod I used to play almost exclusively, the game felt wrong when I didn't play it.  I don't remember exactly what it was called, it may have become the 1257 AD historical mod, but this one wasn't historical.

It definitely had a number in the 1257 range, and it was set in Calradia with modifications to suit that period.  It may have been farther back in time.  Limited, crusader era plate with can helmets and stuff, no maximilian or anything, no warhammers, nothing you wouldn't expect to see in the early medieval era.  Factions were changed to be more obviously whatever their historical basis was.  THe ones I remember most distinctly were Swadians became a Templar-style brotherhood, and Rhodoks were Italians with pavise crossbowmen
There was a mod with a name along the lines of Calradia 1257 AD, which was separate from 1257 Europe mod.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on June 14, 2016, 04:31:57 pm
I didn't watch the PC Gamer thing they did a couple months ago, but have they shown anything to do with lords and politics? This video (https://youtu.be/H-wYZvApOmE?t=50s) showed that there were some definite improvements to city\castle management but nothing really new when it came to lordly shenanigans.

Always seemed strange that no new wannabe lords would show up and that old lords would remained relatively unchanged (besides holdings) even if 50 years went by. Not to mention kings constantly feasting, no one every actually getting married despite months of courtship, and new realms never forming without player guidance, etc. Might be spoiled by Crusader Kings 2 and am expecting too much, but I would hope something is planned.

Edit: Found this (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/12). Definitely better than what the system used to be at the very least.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Emma on June 15, 2016, 01:41:54 am
I'm not going to be truly happy until you can cheer alongside your soldiers at the end of a battle.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 15, 2016, 02:40:32 am
I'm not going to be truly happy until you can cheer alongside your soldiers at the end of a battle.
I think you kind-of might. All the commands (charge! Hold this position!) have animations now :p
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 15, 2016, 04:11:25 am
Now imagine this with the physics and elements from the new Zelda game
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Aklyon on June 15, 2016, 12:46:01 pm
I'll be terrible at this and going to PTW anyway.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 15, 2016, 04:18:06 pm
Now imagine this with the physics and elements from the new Zelda game
Now you have me thinking of how a game like the new Zelda would play if it were a multiplayer capture the flag sort of deal, thanks.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on June 16, 2016, 01:38:05 am
Is there any word on multiplayer? I still play Napoleonic Wars, pretty much exclusively sieges. It would be so much better with moving, capturable spawn points with some protection from spawnkilling.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 16, 2016, 10:52:33 am
Is there any word on multiplayer? I still play Napoleonic Wars, pretty much exclusively sieges. It would be so much better with moving, capturable spawn points with some protection from spawnkilling.

God, how fun would NW be with spawn-on-banner carriers and medics?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 16, 2016, 11:33:38 am
Siege was my favorite gamemode in vanilla, cRPG, and NW and I agree that the static flag just made the whole thing a mess. Either multiple flags or a moving flag (and perhaps even moving spawn points) would solve many of the problems I have with it.

I don't know about a spawn on squad/banner/leader mechanic. On one hand it would simulate how typically the formations consisted of more than 10 guys, but on the other hand it could be pretty awkward spawning in only to get shot before you have a change to get your bearings.

The new siege weapon mechanic is going to be a godsend for cannon/mortar operators =D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on June 16, 2016, 01:56:52 pm
This game will be worth it for the sieges alone.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 16, 2016, 07:21:28 pm
This game will be worth it for the sieges alone.

Indeed! It'd be fun if there were multiple flags and you had to take them in order!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: lordcooper on June 17, 2016, 06:58:24 am
I didn't watch the PC Gamer thing they did a couple months ago, but have they shown anything to do with lords and politics? This video (https://youtu.be/H-wYZvApOmE?t=50s) showed that there were some definite improvements to city\castle management but nothing really new when it came to lordly shenanigans.

Always seemed strange that no new wannabe lords would show up and that old lords would remained relatively unchanged (besides holdings) even if 50 years went by. Not to mention kings constantly feasting, no one every actually getting married despite months of courtship, and new realms never forming without player guidance, etc. Might be spoiled by Crusader Kings 2 and am expecting too much, but I would hope something is planned.

Edit: Found this (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/12). Definitely better than what the system used to be at the very least.



How much cheese for your castle?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: TempAcc on June 17, 2016, 12:18:11 pm
Man, I feel like they could've done a whole lot more with the game then just this. I mean, it'll prob have expansions and mods will prob add all the stuff we can possibly want anyway, but just like someone else in the thread already said, they could've at least taken inspiration from m&b mods and added features like freelancer (the mercenary mod in which YOU are a sole mercenary soldier and can join armies), a crusader kings-ish grand strategy layer of interaction once you hold some land, proper army management, etc.

Not that they won't add (or haven't already added) this, but so far I got no info that indicates that M&B 2 won't just be m&b 1 with fancier graphics and better sieges :v
Which is ok, but it could be more.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 17, 2016, 12:47:25 pm
Always seemed strange that no new wannabe lords would show up and that old lords would remained relatively unchanged (besides holdings) even if 50 years went by.
Now that you mention it, where are the children? It'd be cool to meet some lord's kid and over the years watch him grow up and become a lord. Could even have some Crusader Kings 2 style shenanigans going on.

Man, I feel like they could've done a whole lot more with the game then just this.
Yeah, maybe they could have, but like others have said I'm quite happy with a new and improved M&B. I'm pretty sure they said they have tried their hardest to make as little of the game hardcoded as possible to make the game even easier to mod than Warband. If that's the case, I'd rather have that then have more things be hardcoded but have a couple features from mods included.

If this were a yearly release like certain other AAA games and all they ever released was 'shinier M&B' then I could definitely see a problem.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on June 17, 2016, 03:27:11 pm
I'd definitely love to see some CKII style stuff going on with the lords.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on June 17, 2016, 04:41:44 pm
Always seemed strange that no new wannabe lords would show up and that old lords would remained relatively unchanged (besides holdings) even if 50 years went by.
Now that you mention it, where are the children? It'd be cool to meet some lord's kid and over the years watch him grow up and become a lord. sabotage everything he attempts, getting a final laugh out of him when he finally offs himself. Or even sabotage that to extend his suffering. Could even have some Crusader Kings 2 style shenanigans going on.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 17, 2016, 06:05:06 pm
Man, I feel like they could've done a whole lot more with the game then just this. I mean, it'll prob have expansions and mods will prob add all the stuff we can possibly want anyway, but just like someone else in the thread already said, they could've at least taken inspiration from m&b mods and added features like freelancer (the mercenary mod in which YOU are a sole mercenary soldier and can join armies), a crusader kings-ish grand strategy layer of interaction once you hold some land, proper army management, etc.

Not that they won't add (or haven't already added) this, but so far I got no info that indicates that M&B 2 won't just be m&b 1 with fancier graphics and better sieges :v
Which is ok, but it could be more.
Have a look at The Elder Scrolls series. They didn't add much new stuff in Skyrim, besides maybe shouting. They added in diplomacy and other mods to M&B2 though, and there's an influence mechanic. Probably more stuff, even events while going in a town or finding a crime ring.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on June 17, 2016, 07:23:02 pm
Man, I feel like they could've done a whole lot more with the game then just this. I mean, it'll prob have expansions and mods will prob add all the stuff we can possibly want anyway, but just like someone else in the thread already said, they could've at least taken inspiration from m&b mods and added features like freelancer (the mercenary mod in which YOU are a sole mercenary soldier and can join armies), a crusader kings-ish grand strategy layer of interaction once you hold some land, proper army management, etc.

Not that they won't add (or haven't already added) this, but so far I got no info that indicates that M&B 2 won't just be m&b 1 with fancier graphics and better sieges :v
Which is ok, but it could be more.
Have a look at The Elder Scrolls series. They didn't add much new stuff in Skyrim, besides maybe shouting. They added in diplomacy and other mods to M&B2 though, and there's an influence mechanic. Probably more stuff, even events while going in a town or finding a crime ring.

One could argue that they removed stuff from the ES series with each iteration, but that's another argument for another time. I think a big part of M&B II is the new engine, which allows them to do a lot more. And anyways, it's too early to judge what has been added and what hasn't, because we haven't seen all that much.

In other news, apparently they're going to be releasing the gameplay code to modders along with a full suite of modding tools. "We are releasing our own tools, that we use internally for development but not the engine source. We are releasing a lot of scripting code that modders can get their hands on and change, in addition to providing a load of parameters which means they can tweak core parts of the game but not access the engine code directly."

"This means that, for instance, mounts can be changed, modders can add different skeletons for things like camels and elephants if they like. There is a whole load of extra modding capability of this sort which is expanded from the previous engine we used in Warband as well.We will then make our gameplay code accessible to modders, so they can extend or rewrite to suit their purpose."

So looks like the M&B II modding scene is going to be even more bumpin' than the Warband modding scene.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on June 17, 2016, 07:38:16 pm
Woop woop, we all know M&B survived entirely by mods.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: TheBronzePickle on June 17, 2016, 07:41:44 pm
I'm fully expecting a mod with fully functional armed vehicles or even tanks within a year of release. A WW1 or WW2 setting, perhaps.

I wonder if we'll see Napoleonic Wars 2... or should I say, how long is it going to take before we do?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 17, 2016, 08:37:39 pm
Have they said whether they are releasing the modding tools early? Or just at release? (Hopefully not after release...)
Does anyone remember the map editor tool? That thing looked preeettty good.
I'm fully expecting a mod with fully functional armed vehicles or even tanks within a year of release. A WW1 or WW2 setting, perhaps.
There's already a mod that's basically a football riot (I think?) and they changed the horses to police cars. It looks about as ridiculous as you'd imagine. (http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/18/17046/thumb_620x2000/of2i.jpg)
I wonder if we'll see Napoleonic Wars 2... or should I say, how long is it going to take before we do?
Too long.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on June 17, 2016, 11:58:57 pm
PTW... this has been my most anticipated game for a couple years already... will buy immediately on release if I have to sell my children for it, and my life will be pretty much over.

M&B 1 with a more polished engine, bit more depth in places where it was lacking, and expanded modding capabilities is exactly what I wanted and nothing more.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on June 18, 2016, 05:57:09 am
I'm fully expecting a mod with fully functional armed vehicles or even tanks within a year of release. A WW1 or WW2 setting, perhaps.
There's already a mod that's basically a football riot (I think?) and they changed the horses to police cars. It looks about as ridiculous as you'd imagine. (http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/18/17046/thumb_620x2000/of2i.jpg)\
Ah, Gangs of Glasgow.

It looks ridiculous, but it's hardly indicative of how it'd work for M&B as a whole. That mod was extremely low-effort technically.

Personally, I think that considering how dependent on the mods M&B is, Taleworlds should add native support for proper firearms handling for anything more than muskets, just disabled for main game. At least 50% of the mods are post-medieval or anachronistic, and let's be honest, guns in M&B kinda suck mechanically.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on June 18, 2016, 06:17:50 am
The Last Days had pretty big things done even in the original M&B, such as large monsters and dynamic warfare & faction system. The amazing mods were much of the reason M&B became a classic.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 18, 2016, 06:23:07 am
C-RPG was pretty big for the old one...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on June 18, 2016, 12:14:15 pm
Man, I feel like they could've done a whole lot more with the game then just this. I mean, it'll prob have expansions and mods will prob add all the stuff we can possibly want anyway, but just like someone else in the thread already said, they could've at least taken inspiration from m&b mods and added features like freelancer (the mercenary mod in which YOU are a sole mercenary soldier and can join armies), a crusader kings-ish grand strategy layer of interaction once you hold some land, proper army management, etc.

Not that they won't add (or haven't already added) this, but so far I got no info that indicates that M&B 2 won't just be m&b 1 with fancier graphics and better sieges :v
Which is ok, but it could be more.
Have a look at The Elder Scrolls series. They didn't add much new stuff in Skyrim, besides maybe shouting. They added in diplomacy and other mods to M&B2 though, and there's an influence mechanic. Probably more stuff, even events while going in a town or finding a crime ring.
The bigger question is how can you evolve M&B further mechanically? Because the underlying system is pretty well developed. You can expand it with stuff like more different weapons and nations and the like, or add novel combat areas like ship battles, or maybe evolve sieges further a bit, such as adding multiple paths of storming the castle, but that all's not so much evolution as much as it is additional content.

What M&B needed more than anything else was more polish and better presentation.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 18, 2016, 12:27:55 pm
Well, they added chamber blocking in Warband, so who knows what other stuff they could do with combat. How can you fight a guy who has a shield, for example? He basically has an omni-directional block that requires almost no skill, and mitigates many ranged weapons too. Many times fighting a guy with a shield is a back-and-forth hoping that his shield breaks or you manage to feint him just right, which is difficult because one handed weapons swing faster than other weapon types.

Also what about sprinting? It's annoying fighting archers by veerry slowly waddling towards them while they pepper you with projectiles. Hope you brought a shield, and even if you do holding the shield up slows you way down anyways so you'll never catch them.

And what about armor? Honestly the way damage works in M&B is pretty silly. At least there's three types of damage, but most of it just deals with making armor less effective against attacks.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on June 18, 2016, 05:59:36 pm
How can you fight a guy who has a shield, for example? He basically has an omni-directional block that requires almost no skill, and mitigates many ranged weapons too. Many times fighting a guy with a shield is a back-and-forth hoping that his shield breaks or you manage to feint him just right, which is difficult because one handed weapons swing faster than other weapon types.

Shields are historically popular for a reason.  I think having them break, and making certain weapon types do extra damage to them is fair enough.  Perhaps the shield-bearer should be stunned an equal amount to their attacker after a block.  In terms of game balance, I think a shield should be about holding lines/choke points, protection from projectiles, or just having that flawless defense option when you don't want to try and match someone's dueling skill.  It shouldn't be about the ability to create low-risk counter-attacks.

Also what about sprinting? It's annoying fighting archers by veerry slowly waddling towards them while they pepper you with projectiles. Hope you brought a shield, and even if you do holding the shield up slows you way down anyways so you'll never catch them.

Ability to sprint would be fun, but lots of potential for unintended consequences to game balance.  I don't even think it's necessary for balance against archers.  This is a type of game where different load outs and skill sets have their opportunities to shine in different situations.  As an archer, you are worthless if you can't rack up kills on advancing infantry, because your time is up once that distance is closed.  In a siege, you're hard pressed to keep that distance once the enemy has flooded the battlements.  On open ground, you can kite infantry, but are easy prey for cavalry.  It's gratifying to be a two-hand bruiser type, but you gotta accept that you'll have specific situations in which you're most relevant, just like everyone else.

And what about armor? Honestly the way damage works in M&B is pretty silly. At least there's three types of damage, but most of it just deals with making armor less effective against attacks.

Yet the damage system is faaaaar beyond those in 95% of games featuring melee combat.  Very little complaint here.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 18, 2016, 06:39:48 pm
... I'd like to see a new version of Phantasy Calradia in MB2. Then again, I'd like to see a new version of Phantasy Calradia in MB1...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 18, 2016, 07:05:40 pm
The bigger question is how can you evolve M&B further mechanically? Because the underlying system is pretty well developed. You can expand it with stuff like more different weapons and nations and the like, or add novel combat areas like ship battles, or maybe evolve sieges further a bit, such as adding multiple paths of storming the castle, but that all's not so much evolution as much as it is additional content.
No, M&B's engine had basically shit support for any of those things. A new engine could actually do that stuff (and more) without being hacky as hell.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ParsleyPWG on June 18, 2016, 10:47:04 pm
M&B was awesome fun when it first came out, spent hundred of hours on it. But it does start to show its age now. I hope M&B2 feels less clunky
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2016, 01:03:20 am
Well, they added chamber blocking in Warband, so who knows what other stuff they could do with combat. How can you fight a guy who has a shield, for example? He basically has an omni-directional block that requires almost no skill, and mitigates many ranged weapons too. Many times fighting a guy with a shield is a back-and-forth hoping that his shield breaks or you manage to feint him just right, which is difficult because one handed weapons swing faster than other weapon types.

Also what about sprinting? It's annoying fighting archers by veerry slowly waddling towards them while they pepper you with projectiles. Hope you brought a shield, and even if you do holding the shield up slows you way down anyways so you'll never catch them.

And what about armor? Honestly the way damage works in M&B is pretty silly. At least there's three types of damage, but most of it just deals with making armor less effective against attacks.
Shields are supposed to be powerful counters to most attacks and what balances them is the fact that they break and that they limit your damage output to one-handed weapons. Giving people additional ways to bypass shields runs a risk of rendering them useless which they weren't historically (at least until gunpowder came around). There's a reason why for most of medieval warfare, people were running around with big ol' slabs of wood and metal.

Sprinting would be an interesting thing to implement, but you'd have to limit it somehow, otherwise you'll just end up with big ol' wads of sprinting infantry sprinting all over the place. Besides which, your infantry should not be charging archers without shields. Killing archers (and poorly protected vulnerable infantry units) is your cavalry's job, they charge into the archers, stop them shooting and then your infantry should be able to close in without fear of being shot at by pointy things.

A rework of the damage system I agree would change the game a fair bit. Perhaps keeping track of the damage to your individual body parts instead of an HP bar. That would facilitate a different approach to how armor works, tho in the end it'd still be very similar (i.e. damage reduction) but slightly more detailed (reducing damage to individual body parts rather than just your overall health). So that could be interesting.



The bigger question is how can you evolve M&B further mechanically? Because the underlying system is pretty well developed. You can expand it with stuff like more different weapons and nations and the like, or add novel combat areas like ship battles, or maybe evolve sieges further a bit, such as adding multiple paths of storming the castle, but that all's not so much evolution as much as it is additional content.
No, M&B's engine had basically shit support for any of those things. A new engine could actually do that stuff (and more) without being hacky as hell.
I'm not saying M&B's implementation of those things was good, just that they were there.  :P
Like I said, polish and presentation. Making things less hacky is part of that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on June 19, 2016, 01:23:08 am
That's why I never really did much of the multiplayer.  I played it for a pseudo-realistic medieval combat sim and medieval combat wasn't based around a tight competitive balance.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 19, 2016, 01:39:57 am
I'm basing those suggestions off my time playing cRPG mod. While a lot of that stuff did apply to the real world in a smaller scenario it's not as effective. A lot of times, at least in that mod, any cavalry that dared try to run archers down just got headshot off their horses. As for shields, half the fun of the game, IMO, is the directional attack/block system, and when you have a one hander+shield your best attacks against anyone was the left-attack because it aims at the head, and the shield acts as an omni-directional block which throws out the directional block mechanic altogether. Sometimes I just wanna reach out and tear that dumb shield away from them or something. I think the only way to really deal with shielders was to have weapons that did bonuses to shields, and those weapons were typically worthless for anything but breaking shields. I suppose couch lancing does tons of damage to shields but it's not very reliable since the cavalry typically didn't last super long (and if they did it's because they're god tier wearing full plate and full plated horse).

M&B combat is still janky and not reaaaally authentic, but it's close enough to still be fun and at least a little believable. A lot of times it's either spin-to-win or people doing all sorts of weird twirly feint attacks that look ridiculous but are effective because they make it hard for the enemy to judge your attacks right.

E: Sprinting. They could add a stamina bar that only applies to sprinting. It would take a long time to 'recharge' so you'd get a good few seconds to charge in, but you wouldn't be able to just sprint all over the place. There'd also be a sort of acceleration period so it's not an instant janky movement.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on June 19, 2016, 03:30:04 am
"Man, this portable wall is so overpowered. God should nerf wood and metal."

"Hey! Hey! Everyone! STOP FIGHTING! STOP! You guys are cheating!!!"

"NEW RULES! NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO USE BIG PIECES OF WOOD OR METAL TO DEFEND THEIR VITAL PARTS! SWORDS ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!"

-------------------

I wonder if they'll do more native implementation of guns this time. Guns previously were pretty... hmm... shite.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: chaoticag on June 19, 2016, 03:35:40 am
Well, they're turning the clock back a fair bit in terms of setting, bannerlord is going to be set earlier, so I don't think firearm mechanics are going to be added in as a core mechanic. The game wouldn't need that in 1247 or whenever it is set. Might be fore the best as it would make armor of the time worse as well, hopefully getting us less spongy fights in general. Who knows though, they might add it in for modders.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on June 19, 2016, 03:49:36 am
They should put just a whole bunch of random things inside the files for modders to use.

Like machine guns.

Dynamite.

Napalm.

Apache helicopters.

Karl Franz on Deathclaw wielding Ghal Maraz.

A Baneblade.

USS Einsenhower.

the Death Star.

Skrillex.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 19, 2016, 03:56:48 am
Let's just cut out the middle man and have Taleworlds pre-make all the mods.
Surely it can't be hard?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2016, 04:07:41 am
I'm basing those suggestions off my time playing cRPG mod. While a lot of that stuff did apply to the real world in a smaller scenario it's not as effective. A lot of times, at least in that mod, any cavalry that dared try to run archers down just got headshot off their horses. As for shields, half the fun of the game, IMO, is the directional attack/block system, and when you have a one hander+shield your best attacks against anyone was the left-attack because it aims at the head, and the shield acts as an omni-directional block which throws out the directional block mechanic altogether. Sometimes I just wanna reach out and tear that dumb shield away from them or something. I think the only way to really deal with shielders was to have weapons that did bonuses to shields, and those weapons were typically worthless for anything but breaking shields. I suppose couch lancing does tons of damage to shields but it's not very reliable since the cavalry typically didn't last super long (and if they did it's because they're god tier wearing full plate and full plated horse).

M&B combat is still janky and not reaaaally authentic, but it's close enough to still be fun and at least a little believable. A lot of times it's either spin-to-win or people doing all sorts of weird twirly feint attacks that look ridiculous but are effective because they make it hard for the enemy to judge your attacks right.

E: Sprinting. They could add a stamina bar that only applies to sprinting. It would take a long time to 'recharge' so you'd get a good few seconds to charge in, but you wouldn't be able to just sprint all over the place. There'd also be a sort of acceleration period so it's not an instant janky movement.

Re shields: That's kinda the point of shields. To give people a way to bypass shields would be to render them useless. They're designed to be the thing you use to block attacks. Using axes against them helps but again, you're fighting a person who has a big piece of wood and metal specifically made to intercept your attacks (even attacks from the side, that's why they're wide and not bucklers) which means they are at a distinct advantage.

You could make it so that a person with a shield turns around a bit slower but you need to be careful with that because if you slow down the turn rate too much, shields are useless things that aren't worth the effort.

You could make targeting people's exposed appendages easier but given how games work, that'd just mean everyone would be going for leg strikes in MP and instead of shields everywhere, you'd get people leg slicing all over the place (or whatever method of bypassing shields you can think of).

I cannot think up a solution that'd make shields and two-handing a big sword both viable options without losing authenticity of medieval combat (SHIELDS EVERYWHERE) and replacing an overused overpowered strategy with another overused overpowered strategy. (except the aforementioned slowdown of turning, tho that'd need to be carefully handled)

re cavalry charging archers: I did not have that problem playing vanilla SP. I've never played a lot of MP mount and blade (mostly because I feel the game is better in SP) but I suspected that headshots might be a big thing from people playing archers. Just like in other MP games when playing against experienced players and the skill level and the like. However, this issue should be relatively easy to fix just by boosting the level of protection a helmet gives against piercing ranged weapons.

re jankiness: it's true, M&B combat is janky AF. A lot of it has to deal with the game itself (the animations look weird and stunted, tho from what I've seen of M&B 2 it looks like they somewhat remedied that) but I suspect most of that feeling of jank comes from the input method itself. A truly jankless melee combat simulator is something that one can only achieve with VR, I feel, given how integral control of your movement is to fighting in close combat. So there's a fair bit of jank to be expected from any game that tries to simulate it. Again, a lot of that can be remedied with improving presentation and adding polish (better animations, more responsive controls, the like).

re stamina bar: That sounds like a pretty good solution to me. Probably would also be affected by what kind of armor you're wearing and how many weapons you have and your various stats and the like, but it sounds like a decent solution.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 19, 2016, 05:12:33 am
... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

I'd actually be really impressed if just holding a spear and someone running into it at full speed will do anything (no attack move, just the object).

I want to be able to throw a javlin, have it stuck in wood and the guy running along the wall knocking himself out on it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: kulik on June 19, 2016, 05:32:22 am
On shields, I would like that the shields would also have directional blocking, but that blocking in bad direction would still protect you but at the cost of increased shield damage or, for heavy weapons, chance to strike the shield out of defenders grasp.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Hawkfrost on June 19, 2016, 06:25:59 am
... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

Depending on the era of course.

Late Medieval soldiers often had swords as sidearms in case their spear broke or they ran out of arrows. Key word here though, sidearms.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on June 19, 2016, 07:02:30 am
... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

Depending on the era of course.

Late Medieval soldiers often had swords as sidearms in case their spear broke or they ran out of arrows. Key word here though, sidearms.
From what I've heard LATE Medieval knights used big two handed swords because armor at that point was basically a full body shield.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2016, 08:01:16 am
... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

I'd actually be really impressed if just holding a spear and someone running into it at full speed will do anything (no attack move, just the object).

I want to be able to throw a javlin, have it stuck in wood and the guy running along the wall knocking himself out on it.
I mean sure, while everyone had spears, they also had a secondary weapon when fighting got real close. Spears aren't good at short ranges :P

But yes, spears in M&B need more love. Like lots more.

... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

Depending on the era of course.

Late Medieval soldiers often had swords as sidearms in case their spear broke or they ran out of arrows. Key word here though, sidearms.
From what I've heard LATE Medieval knights used big two handed swords because armor at that point was basically a full body shield.
Late medieval soldiers used maces, war hammers and halberds because swords don't deal with plate particularily well  :P

Really late medieval soldiers used pikes and muskets. At that point, a shield was entirely obsolete, and armor was rapidly approaching that same status. Turns out guns fuck shit up, yo.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sindain on June 19, 2016, 09:51:02 am
re cavalry charging archers: I did not have that problem playing vanilla SP. I've never played a lot of MP mount and blade (mostly because I feel the game is better in SP) but I suspected that headshots might be a big thing from people playing archers. Just like in other MP games when playing against experienced players and the skill level and the like. However, this issue should be relatively easy to fix just by boosting the level of protection a helmet gives against piercing ranged weapons.

Nah that wouldn't actually help too much. Honestly I never found headshots themselves to be not that much of a problem. All archers in (vanilla) MP had a fair level of inaccuracy built in so even the best players had trouble landing headshots at most ranges.

The much bigger problems archers posed to cavalry was the stun from being hit and how quickly archers could kill horses. If a cavalier tried to charge an archer, the archer would just shoot him when he dropped his shield to swing. The cavalier would get stunned and lose his chance to attack.
If the cavalier didn't charge the archer would just plunk at his horse and he would go down in no time.

To fix this, you would need to reduce the damage from archers horses take and reduce the hitstun caused by arrows. Or let lances attack from behind shields. Maybe restrain this to couching only, then the animation would actually make sense.

I suppose couch lancing does tons of damage to shields but it's not very reliable since the cavalry typically didn't last super long (and if they did it's because they're god tier wearing full plate and full plated horse).

Doesn't help that couching is garbage in MP and no god tier horseman would ever both using it. Especially if they had enough cash for a sword and lance, since then they could just knock the guy over and kill him, instead of breaking his shield for someone else to get the kill.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Hawkfrost on June 19, 2016, 09:59:19 am
... authenticity of medieval combat ...

Oh you mean Spears everywhere and no swords for miles?

Depending on the era of course.

Late Medieval soldiers often had swords as sidearms in case their spear broke or they ran out of arrows. Key word here though, sidearms.
From what I've heard LATE Medieval knights used big two handed swords because armor at that point was basically a full body shield.

Knights were not normal soldiers, they largely intended to seek out and battle other knights on the field and geared themselves appropriately for that; a soldier couldn't be expected to be able to afford purchasing suits of plate armor.
By two handed swords I assume you mean a longsword. Most knights would probably go into battle with both a warhammer/pollaxe/lance as well as wearing a longsword on their belt as a backup.


The big greatswords like zweihanders were used later as weapons designed to break into pike blocks by special troops called Doppelsoldners, and are used more like polearms than like swords.



The use of shields, as far as I know, did start to wane during the 1300-1400s but weren't fully replaced until pikes and firearms took over as the main military weapons. You can't use a pike or an arquebus with a shield since both require two hands, and a wooden shield is not going to stop a shot from an arquebus in most cases anyway.



I mean sure, while everyone had spears, they also had a secondary weapon when fighting got real close. Spears aren't good at short ranges :P

They also aren't very good at dealing with people wearing sophisticated armor, unless you hit them with one while riding by on a horse going 30kph.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on June 19, 2016, 10:35:33 am
I'm basing those suggestions off my time playing cRPG mod. While a lot of that stuff did apply to the real world in a smaller scenario it's not as effective. A lot of times, at least in that mod, any cavalry that dared try to run archers down just got headshot off their horses. As for shields, half the fun of the game, IMO, is the directional attack/block system, and when you have a one hander+shield your best attacks against anyone was the left-attack because it aims at the head, and the shield acts as an omni-directional block which throws out the directional block mechanic altogether. Sometimes I just wanna reach out and tear that dumb shield away from them or something. I think the only way to really deal with shielders was to have weapons that did bonuses to shields, and those weapons were typically worthless for anything but breaking shields. I suppose couch lancing does tons of damage to shields but it's not very reliable since the cavalry typically didn't last super long (and if they did it's because they're god tier wearing full plate and full plated horse).

M&B combat is still janky and not reaaaally authentic, but it's close enough to still be fun and at least a little believable. A lot of times it's either spin-to-win or people doing all sorts of weird twirly feint attacks that look ridiculous but are effective because they make it hard for the enemy to judge your attacks right.

E: Sprinting. They could add a stamina bar that only applies to sprinting. It would take a long time to 'recharge' so you'd get a good few seconds to charge in, but you wouldn't be able to just sprint all over the place. There'd also be a sort of acceleration period so it's not an instant janky movement.

Well if your comments were completely aimed at cRPG, then I totally agree.  I played that mod quite a bit, and the balance was pretty fucked up in many ways.  Archers, especially.  I was one of many who pushed with righteous conviction for archer nerfs on the forums.  I once started an archer character just to brag that I was able to get three kills on my very first round with a level 1 character as an archer, when with any other character type, it would be several levels before I'd be able to do much of anything.  And shield/one-hand would only be so dangerous, because those people would crank up a specific character build that made them invincible to lower levels.

But vanilla/single-player combat is hardly comparable to cRPG.  That's on the modders, not the game devs.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on June 19, 2016, 11:05:03 am
On shields, I would like that the shields would also have directional blocking, but that blocking in bad direction would still protect you but at the cost of increased shield damage or, for heavy weapons, chance to strike the shield out of defenders grasp.

I actually really like this idea.  Maybe not knocking a shield away on a failed block, but increased damage to shield, sure.

Though that might really hurt chokepoint defense, where having a handful of people with strong shields shove at it should be an effective approach... but one where it's far too chaotic to bother with directional block.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on June 19, 2016, 11:20:51 am
For something like that, in MP at least, it'd be cool to see something like double-handed shields used in conjunction with spearmen behind the first line. Not sure if AI could handle it though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: chaoticag on June 19, 2016, 11:28:39 am
To be pretty honest about blocking with shields, you wanted people to strike the edge of the shield rather than the face. The face isn't that thick, but from the edge to the center is about as thick as it got, and no weapon was going to break through that easily. Blunter weapons should have a bonus against shields, since blunt weapons don't get stuck in general. Hitting the face of a shield should be the fastest way to mess it up as well. Spears and arrows would end up on the more useless end of things against one. But yeah. It's about the general gist of it.

So if you wanted to translate this into M&B is basically a shield held right in front of you would be best against an opponent right in front of you, but if they're able to hit the shield face at a perpendicular with a cutting or blunt edge, it should deal more damage, especially compared to hitting the shield edge at a perpendicular.

I wouldn't mind if they didn't pursue something like that though. Seems a bit of a tall order and possibly a lot more work for what sounds to me like little benefit.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on June 19, 2016, 12:06:26 pm
True, but from a gameplay perspective, the point would be to demand some effort of shield users beyond "hold shield up in general direction of danger".  The more on point they are with their blocking, the longer they get to keep their shield.  This would be more difficult to implement from the simulationist perspective of "well in reality they want the edge of their shield to absorb blows", which is why you went on to admit it would be a tall order.  It wouldn't be too difficult at all to integrate shield blocking with the same control scheme as weapon blocking, except the only penalty for failing to block in the right direction is a modification to the effectiveness of the block, rather than outright failure.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 19, 2016, 12:51:24 pm
I thought you needed to aim the shield in whichever the way the sword comes? or atleast face, because when you swing a shield while sidestepping around an AI i've managed to get a hit in so they drop the shield. And Arrows hit the shields if they were on your back and weren't raised, as long as they hit the shields, No? I remember taking on two shields while lancing around for that reason.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 19, 2016, 01:24:45 pm
As someone who primarily used polearms I had one issue that made fighting with them seem really strange. How can you sheathe a spear? Or a two-handed sword that has no scabbard, for that matter? Or a great axe? These should be your primary weapons, and if there's no way for you to sheathe them then you shouldn't be able to. Again, cRPG handled this fairly well, since pikes had to be dropped in order to draw your sword. Just a sort of thing to consider so people have to make a decision to retreat and keep their weapon or attack and have to give up their weapon, hoping they can come back for it later. What if there were weapon racks you could grab stuff from?

I thought you needed to aim the shield in whichever the way the sword comes? or atleast face, because when you swing a shield while sidestepping around an AI i've managed to get a hit in so they drop the shield. And Arrows hit the shields if they were on your back and weren't raised, as long as they hit the shields, No? I remember taking on two shields while lancing around for that reason.
If you increase your 'shield' skill it increases the size of the 'force field' around your shield. It can get to the point where you can block all incoming arrows from the front with a buckler about the size of your fist. Without the skill you can still be shot in the feet with a huscarl shield. You don't really have to face the direction the attack is coming from (but it helps slightly with lower shield skill), just the direction of the enemy who is doing said attack. If you're up close with someone and they swing but manage to inch their way to your side then the only way you'll block the attack is if they're swinging into your shield instead of around it, or your have a higher shield skill.

Shields will passively block projectiles that hit it, but AFAIK it doesn't get the 'force field' effect.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 20, 2016, 07:09:37 am
GoT s06e09 has a nice spears vs swords moment. Also a nice "Here is why you have two lines or more with spears" moment.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on July 02, 2016, 09:17:17 pm
So there is a new dev blog up, and while most of it is just talking about the siege gameplay they showed at E3 they had one very interesting thing to say.
Quote from: Taleworlds
During the assault, some of the soldiers seen are equipped with weapons and armour, not in-keeping with those of their faction. While it is possible, via a number of routes, for troops of any culture to end up in the services of another, what you actually saw here were the companions of the player and the defending lord. In Bannerlord, Lords now have their own companions, much like the player, augmenting their own abilities by employing the services of others. And naturally, these may include individuals from distant lands...

Now it seems lords can recruit special followers that act kinda like the companions for the player in the older games. I'm hoping this also means there are wandering adventurer types that are like player-NPCs, recruiting followers and doing their own thing as a player would.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on July 03, 2016, 04:42:20 am
So there is a new dev blog up, and while most of it is just talking about the siege gameplay they showed at E3 they had one very interesting thing to say.
Quote from: Taleworlds
During the assault, some of the soldiers seen are equipped with weapons and armour, not in-keeping with those of their faction. While it is possible, via a number of routes, for troops of any culture to end up in the services of another, what you actually saw here were the companions of the player and the defending lord. In Bannerlord, Lords now have their own companions, much like the player, augmenting their own abilities by employing the services of others. And naturally, these may include individuals from distant lands...

Now it seems lords can recruit special followers that act kinda like the companions for the player in the older games. I'm hoping this also means there are wandering adventurer types that are like player-NPCs, recruiting followers and doing their own thing as a player would.
Between the possibility of this and the recruitment requiring income that lords may try to get via setting up crime or raising taxes, it reminds me a lot of the Custom Settlements mod for M&B 1, which had both and felt amazingly organic, even with how unfinished it was.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Neonivek on July 03, 2016, 04:49:21 am
I just hope that towns are more able to handle themselves.

It was just hopeless to ever try to keep them defended because bandits would just constantly spawn everywhere and you couldn't leave anyone to defend them.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on July 03, 2016, 12:18:57 pm
I just hope that towns are more able to handle themselves.

It was just hopeless to ever try to keep them defended because bandits would just constantly spawn everywhere and you couldn't leave anyone to defend them.

Generic castles no longer exist and instead castles are now built in villages. Should fix that problem and make villages more valuable.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Lukewarm on July 03, 2016, 05:17:13 pm
I'd really like an improvement to Warband's murder conga lines, because it's iritating that you and all your buddies will slash your swords through each other to reach me, as well as the mysterious shield dance called "hit it, raise your shield, hit it, raise your shield" until one of you is dead. I don't care about realism, but that jank is the opposite of fun.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Azkanan on July 03, 2016, 06:33:07 pm
Please tell me this is an impressive mod or a fan-made game. I'd expect a lot more, considering their opportune profits and available budget. Those faces are scary and it looks like a lot of recycled content.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 07:09:34 pm
I'unno, there's the new engine and a fair bit happening under the hood with simulation and such, which is mostly what Warband was lacking.

Face models are ??? but they weren't good in the first place anyway
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JumpingJack on July 03, 2016, 08:44:47 pm
I'd really like an improvement to Warband's murder conga lines, because it's iritating that you and all your buddies will slash your swords through each other to reach me, as well as the mysterious shield dance called "hit it, raise your shield, hit it, raise your shield" until one of you is dead. I don't care about realism, but that jank is the opposite of fun.
Oh man, the conga lines. I've been trying to get back into Warband recently, and that "tactic" is just plain ridiculous.

I'unno, there's the new engine and a fair bit happening under the hood with simulation and such, which is mostly what Warband was lacking.

Face models are ??? but they weren't good in the first place anyway
Agreed. I don't mind the faces, to be honest; they've come quite a long way.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on July 03, 2016, 08:46:09 pm
The face models aren't good??  They look perfectly fine to me.

Far and away from the faces in Mountain Blaide 1, and not weird lumpy potatoes like in, say, vanilla Skyrim.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on July 03, 2016, 08:50:53 pm
Yeah, I'm perfectly happy with the look of characters in Bannerlord, from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on July 03, 2016, 10:14:08 pm
Yeah, considering what it used to be. This is miles better. And there's actual physics.

M&B never really was about the graphics too. Or the uh... "voice acting" for that matter. Not saying that excuses it, but I think almost anyone who's a fan of the series really just cares about the gameplay.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 10:38:43 pm
"voice acting"
MILORD
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on July 03, 2016, 10:41:09 pm
"voice acting"
MILORD

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on July 04, 2016, 02:21:58 am
I WILL DRINK FRAM YOUR SKALL
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scrdest on July 04, 2016, 04:31:04 am
IT'S ALMOST HAHVESTING SEASON
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Azkanan on July 04, 2016, 06:17:43 am
Face models are ??? but they weren't good in the first place anyway

Warband and < faces are what I might expect a newborn's to look like at the moment of womb escape.  :o
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mookzen on July 04, 2016, 06:19:00 am
Can't wait for this, going to be epic.

Also, the face is fantastic no need for better considering the scale of battles, in fact it might be too good already. I know a dude with a face like that, its real. Good enough for stabbing, anyway.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: BFEL on July 04, 2016, 06:56:59 am
Please tell me this is an impressive mod or a fan-made game. I'd expect a lot more, considering their opportune profits and available budget. Those faces are scary and it looks like a lot of recycled content.
Most of the improvements are on the strategic scale, not the tactical one.

For example, lords don't magically poof units into being anymore, they actually have to use their lands to make money to pay for recruitment and training, so it will now be possible to deplete a lord to nothingness if you harass them enough.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on July 04, 2016, 07:54:08 am
I'm not sure what would be wrong about that face (in the side by side comparison up there). Looks like a face to me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Drakale on July 04, 2016, 09:24:23 am
Have they said anything about how large battles reinforcement will be handled? I feel it's one of the weak points of warband where you can gain a huge advantage by baiting the enemy to your line so they get slaughtered by your reinforcement while theirs have to trek across the map.

What would be awesome is a real battle setup where you have to separate a large force into center and flanks and you only get to control one part of that battle. If one of your flank armies crumble for example, then you get the enemy reinforcement from that side of the map.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 04, 2016, 10:06:13 am
Oh yes, the battle size limit was always bugging me and the game was better when I threw in a mod that set it to 2000 ; )

In Warbands, most if not all armys simply go from 1-30 or 80-120 with very very rare outliers of any kind... I want to see more united armys like:

 "Enemy Army [115]"  (Bandit Lord [60] + Slaves [20] + Mercs [15] + Supporters from KingdomX [20])

Pre-Battle options:

Attempt to bribe Mercs to not fight[Small sum]
Buy Mercs [ Expensive ]
Diplomat @ KingdomX
Pay Bandit Lord

etc.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mech#4 on July 04, 2016, 10:22:08 am
I have often thought that larger armies would be a nice addition. Though, I kept coming back to the title of the game "Mount and Blade: Warband". A warband isn't really a large army.

Though, also, the way Mount and Blade does armies is to emulate the feudal "each lord brings their small force together into a main army under one banner" style of force mustering. The problem then was that battles didn't allow more than around 100 units on the field at a time and reinforcements pop in from the edge or spawn points.

I think I mentioned earlier but if they include larger armies I would want better controls to give orders to units as well as things like units maintaining formation and facing and battle maps with more gradual slopes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on July 04, 2016, 10:26:27 am
The thing with the older games was processing power wasn't as good as it now as it was back then, plus I'me pretty sure the game wasn't multi-thread capable. Assuming Bannerlord is capable of that then I wouldn't mind seeing larger battles.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on July 04, 2016, 01:02:11 pm
I'd be perfectly happy if they just capped the battle size slider at something larger, say 500. After that, any reasonable computer is probably going to cry.


edit: another feature they could implement to beef up spears a bit is bracing spears from the Floris mod for Warband (I think, I'm not entirely sure). It was a neat feature that really made spear infantry invaluable against cavalry.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 04, 2016, 07:53:24 pm
I'd rather they uncapped battle size and just let the player decide what they want.

Bigger armies would be pretty cool, but we'd need some better commands and so on.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: TempAcc on July 04, 2016, 08:14:38 pm
M&B was kind archaic about how it dealt and used computer resources. Ever seen a napoleon wars battle with everything cranked up? It took a top level gaming pc to run it at the time of its release just because of how hilariously everything was handled. Also the windy grass, so much windy grass.

If they got their shit together on bannerlord, then we can prob expect larger battle maps and armies. Honestly the battle maps in m&b were kinda tiny for anything bigger then 100 unit battles.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on July 04, 2016, 11:27:38 pm
Old M&B was so very much limited by its engine.  90% of what Bannerlord needs is to address those limitations, and introduce more mod friendliness.  Anything more is gravy to me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Krevsin on July 05, 2016, 12:57:23 am
Apparently Bannerlord is using a brand spanking new engine, so that seems like a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on September 29, 2016, 01:24:36 am
I have logged 120 hours in Mount and Blade, 550 hours in Warband, and 56 in Fire and Sword. They don't need to do much to convince me to give them more money. It looks promising so far and I really hope they don't fuck it up.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on September 29, 2016, 03:21:44 am
M&B is fun single player, but I've played loads of WFAS and Napoleon in multiplayer sieges. Something about them just tickles me the right way. I hope Bannerlord has improved sieges with moving, conquerable spawn points and stuff.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 29, 2016, 01:57:52 pm
I mean, battlefields could be quite large, I would be content with even just being confined to one flank at a time but being able to see the course of the battle on other flanks and or send reinforcements.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on October 27, 2016, 11:05:53 am
Unfortunately not much to announce, but the game now has a store page on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550) for those of you who wish to purchase/wishlist/watch it on there.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on October 27, 2016, 11:47:35 am
Unfortunately not much to announce, but the game now has a store page on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550) for those of you who wish to purchase/wishlist/watch it on there.
Aw rats. I could've reported that but I thought it had already been posted :D

HYPE GUYS
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Silverthrone on October 27, 2016, 11:50:04 am
Fingers crossed for a With Fire & Sword II: Firery Sword-Boogaloo somewhere down the line. Bannerlord looks really nice, but the setting and the era doesn't quite do it for me anymore. I've grown addicted to powder smoke.



Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: x2yzh9 on October 27, 2016, 12:01:50 pm
Fingers crossed for a With Fire & Sword II: Firery Sword-Boogaloo somewhere down the line. Bannerlord looks really nice, but the setting and the era doesn't quite do it for me anymore. I've grown addicted to powder smoke.
I played that one and it was really cool just a linear storyline, which is okay considering the other mount and blade games for the most part don't follow a narrative
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on October 27, 2016, 04:05:00 pm
Fingers crossed for a With Fire & Sword II: Firery Sword-Boogaloo somewhere down the line. Bannerlord looks really nice, but the setting and the era doesn't quite do it for me anymore. I've grown addicted to powder smoke.
Mods dude. Mods. There's probably going to be a grand gunpowder age mod within a month of release :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on October 27, 2016, 04:06:07 pm
Napoleonic Wars is probably the best example of how to do a 'paid mod' I've seen. Definitely want another NW for Bannerlord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Silverthrone on October 27, 2016, 04:29:09 pm
Fingers crossed for a With Fire & Sword II: Firery Sword-Boogaloo somewhere down the line. Bannerlord looks really nice, but the setting and the era doesn't quite do it for me anymore. I've grown addicted to powder smoke.
I played that one and it was really cool just a linear storyline, which is okay considering the other mount and blade games for the most part don't follow a narrative

Yes, part of the reason I fell for it. I liked both, but it was nice to have a more linear thread to follow along with the self-made storylines. Never did beat any of them, though. I'm a bad enough dude to become the most powerful condottieri in the East, but no-where near a bad enough dude to rule it.

Mods dude. Mods. There's probably going to be a grand gunpowder age mod within a month of release :D

True. It'll take a while longer before the better mods start coming out, though. An official expansion is usually a bit more polished. Fingers crossed for both.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on October 28, 2016, 01:41:25 am
Siege machines and destructible enviroment in the base game means we will get awesome WW1 mods and whatnot eventually. Can't wait to multiplay Napoleonic Warfare II: Stabbity Stab, Good Sir.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Silverthrone on October 28, 2016, 09:30:28 am
That's true! Maybe Battlefield 1; No EA, dare we dream? Plus, cannon. Lovely, lovely cannon. Hell, Napoleonic Warfare Again sounds good enough for me. I shall see you on ze battlefield, mein herr.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 12, 2017, 02:49:34 pm
Taleworlds is at E3 and have made a news post about it, which you can look at here (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/News/174), featuring two new gameplay videos.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Drakale on June 12, 2017, 03:17:32 pm
I fully expect them to halfass the campaign map stuff, but even then I'm hyped with what I have seen so far. The battle engine seem good and the animations and ragdolls are a huge upgrade. No proof that the AI is much improved yet, but at least there is a new command system that seem interesting.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 12, 2017, 04:02:54 pm
Amazing how so much changes and yet the combat looks like it plays the exact same. Right down to awkwardly slamming into guys and coming to a dead stop.

Not saying that's good or bad. I was just like "Yep, that looks familiar."

Love all the corpses and blood though, that's a nice step up from M&B.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 12, 2017, 08:12:42 pm
Napoleonic Wars is probably the best example of how to do a 'paid mod' I've seen. Definitely want another NW for Bannerlord.

Cept that Mount & Musket was lit :C
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 12, 2017, 08:29:29 pm
https://youtu.be/IUkL42p3Mss

https://youtu.be/BMeqj8WG0a8

I love how the animations are continuous. Like when the horsearcher does a vertical slash and the arm just swings around to start a overhand slash. (Anyone want to fix my links?)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on June 12, 2017, 08:52:22 pm
Amazing how so much changes and yet the combat looks like it plays the exact same. Right down to awkwardly slamming into guys and coming to a dead stop.

Not saying that's good or bad. I was just like "Yep, that looks familiar."

You know, when I read your comment I went "C'mon. It can't be exactly the same."

Nope. You are 100% correct. It looks like a really nicely polished version of Mount and Blade. And you know what? I am totally fine with this. I'm not going to say that the original gameplay was perfection, but it was certainly fun. Having a graphically updated game with some further refinements and improvements (however much they actually are) is something I can look forward to playing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Exerosp on June 12, 2017, 08:59:40 pm
Hasn't it been said that depending on how you cut someone matters now? Like where you hit them with the blade and such. At least it seemed like a few throats were slit open on the horsearcher video.

I wouldn't say combat is the same though. Similar but vastly improved :)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 12, 2017, 09:20:05 pm
There was locational armor in the first game. Hitting someone in the head without a helmet on will probably kill them in one hit, which is why everyone who uses one-handed swords always spams the left-swing because it comes out at head-level. Wearing better leg armor is important for cavalry because most people ar going to be hitting your legs while you're on the horse etc.
I love how the animations are continuous. Like when the horsearcher does a vertical slash and the arm just swings around to start a overhand slash.
The news posts mentions that if you complete a swing animation you can go right into your next swing, so if you use an unbalanced weapon that is hard to feint with you can intentionally miss and go straight into another attack to fake them out, for example.

E: Oh yes, they also mentioned that shield blocking is directional to an extent, so just holding block will make your shield break faster than properly doing directional blocks.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 12, 2017, 11:27:24 pm
Yeah, I'm completely ok with basically more polished animations that have more frames and look more believable. The combat engine and momentum of actors hasn't really changed based on surface appearances but all the action around you look way more realistic. (Except foot troops running, that still looks abnormally slow and the dudes still look a little derpy....)

There were just a couple times in both videos where I saw the player do something and I had a "yep, that's exactly what I've experienced in MB before" moment.

That said, when he hit a guy coming head on with a set spear and they collided at 600% speed and did 200+ damage....I popped a little wood. For how frustrating jousting in M&B is, it's rewarding as fuck when you actually land a solid strike.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Lukewarm on June 13, 2017, 12:25:01 am
perhaps the conga line fights will be dealt with better.
also, a better deal with horses. They're, as far as mb1 is concerned, a second lifebar. Horse archers are the opposite of fun to play against.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Virtz on June 13, 2017, 12:27:48 am
Amazing how so much changes and yet the combat looks like it plays the exact same. Right down to awkwardly slamming into guys and coming to a dead stop.

Not saying that's good or bad. I was just like "Yep, that looks familiar."

Love all the corpses and blood though, that's a nice step up from M&B.
The way I saw it, it's actually a lot harder to stop a horse against infantry now. Like he ploughed right into a group in that second vid and barely slowed. It even launches infantry backwards on high speed collision like in Total War. In general the cavalry looks even more OP than in 1. Would like to see how spearmen handle cavalry.

Horse on horse collisions are indeed full stop still. Not sure how they'd handle that without making it rather frustrating or artificial feeling, though.


On a different note, blood spurts on horse back in that first video actually look a bit weird. Like they have no momentum and just come out as this concentrated stream. They look fine on infantry, though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 13, 2017, 12:30:23 am
In Warband there was a thing called bumpslashing where even if someone was blocking in the correct direction you could simply nudge them with your horse to stun them and then hit them as you went by. If they get knocked away from being trampled then it would prevent that sort of thing.

In the original, if a horse was at full speed and hit a wall or obstacle they would immediately stop and play a long rearing-up animation, leaving you vulnerable. It looks like they cut the animation to a shorter one that lasts maybe a third the time, leaving you less vulnerable. Not sure how I feel about that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 13, 2017, 04:40:24 am
I loved to bumpslash everything with a fast light horse and a warhammer in c-rpg... mostly because none else used a weapon so unsuited for mounted warefare, but with everyone being maxed our armor tank monsters it helps.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Moddan on June 13, 2017, 08:49:36 am
In cRPG they even added a stealth damage nerf for bump-slashing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 13, 2017, 11:53:47 am
I guess I'll have to rewatch but I didn't really see him riding into a line of infantry and scattering people or launching them back. Mostly they avoided crowds as was good practice in M&B1.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on June 13, 2017, 12:01:58 pm
In the horse archer video at about 3 minutes 10 seconds (https://youtu.be/BMeqj8WG0a8?t=191): watch the white horse with the plated barding and no rider, it completely launches a dude off the screen.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Virtz on June 13, 2017, 01:44:35 pm
2:37 (https://youtu.be/BMeqj8WG0a8?t=157) he basically runs horse-first into like 3 dudes and barely slows.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cyroth on June 13, 2017, 03:08:41 pm
Here (https://youtu.be/IUkL42p3Mss?t=3m7s) in the first video as well. I think hitting that many people (look at the column of "charged for...") would have stopped any horse in WB.
Maybe its the mods I play, but hitting more then 3 people usually stops even high charge warhorses.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on August 22, 2017, 11:33:09 am
Taleworlds has released a new video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_3el4IAevg) from Gamescon. So far the best improvement I've seen so far is moving "X killed Y" out of the chat box. I hated that crap flooding my screen on 120 player servers.

E: Now that I think about it, didn't it also flood your screen in singleplayer?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on August 22, 2017, 11:36:14 am
I understand there were some shakeups in the dev team of late. The game's release was pushed back, and the ginger-haired developer with glasses who was in on most of the demos has left the team. I honestly haven't stayed up with the drama but apparently Tale Worlds is saying they're going to do more and better communication with the fanbase moving forward to release.

Anyways, not sure I like some of that icon work. Makes me think strongly of Elemental for some reason. I also miss the kill spam, personally. I hope it's configurable. I didn't like how it filled up the window but I did use it as a rough gauge of how the battle is going. When you see 10 of your guys go down in one pass it helped you know you were outgunned.

Plus when you're riding by on horse back it's good to know that swing was an actual kill.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on August 22, 2017, 12:30:17 pm
I used it to tell how the battle was going casualty- and priaoner-wise as it happened.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mech#4 on August 22, 2017, 12:55:07 pm
Maybe it would be useful to have a forces bar that shows your numbers relevant to the enemies? Having icons that show how many troops remain in your various groupings would be useful as well.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dennislp3 on August 22, 2017, 12:57:36 pm
I feel like this game is in development hell...there appears to be progress...but its soooo long
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on August 22, 2017, 02:41:02 pm
I feel like this game is in development hell...there appears to be progress...but its soooo long

The dev time is long yeah, but this game is extremely ambitious and I'd rather hype myself to death over a long period of time then get NoManSky'd again. At least they update with blogs and videos fairly often (like once a month but hey, better than some).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 22, 2017, 02:43:14 pm
I feel like this game is in development hell...there appears to be progress...but its soooo long

not yet. Also some "development hells" are just developers going at a pace they know they can sustain.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sensei on August 22, 2017, 02:55:50 pm
Normally development hell means something like important team members left, big chunks of work had to be changed or re-done, etc. I don't think that's necessarily going on here.

Anyway, I really like that they have a multiplayer mode which is based around fighting at the head of your NPC soldiers. That's what the whole single player game is about and I always felt it was missing from Warband multiplayer.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on April 15, 2018, 11:26:20 pm
Going crazy waiting for Bannerlord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on April 15, 2018, 11:38:53 pm
They had better have something playable this year. Seriously.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on April 16, 2018, 01:48:24 am
Have you been following the weekly dev diaries? It looks like it's coming along very well.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dennislp3 on April 16, 2018, 02:53:17 am
Have you been following the weekly dev diaries? It looks like it's coming along very well.

Hate to sound like an ass...but its been looking that way for a few years now...the stuff they show is great...but I am not seeing anything getting us closer to release.

In fact the recent dev blog that covered siege engines gave us almost zero information...because they shared all that literally 2 years ago. It's a worrying sign if they have to regurgitate feature from 2 years ago as an update.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2018, 10:40:22 am
With the total lack of PR since their lead developer left, I can't imagine it's all sunshine and chocolates.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 16, 2018, 12:15:07 pm
hire me, paradox. hire me and avoid the dreaded loot box plague.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Pancakes on April 17, 2018, 06:03:31 pm
I'm here from the future, to brag about our version of Mount & Blade III! Become the jealous, you shall!

In the new Mount & Blade, you will no longer have to train up troops from recruits, instead you will open lootboxes to randomly get different kinds of troops! Oh, and it's an online-only multiplayer-only game now! Enemy lords have been replaced with internet shitlords! The only voice acted line is the classic, fan-favorite "ETS AHLMOST HAARVESTIN SEASON"! Exclamation points! The only downside is the game takes place in 1972, which threw us off for a little but you get used to it!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 17, 2018, 06:13:40 pm
I'm here from the future, to brag about our version of Mount & Blade III! Become the jealous, you shall!

In the new Mount & Blade, you will no longer have to train up troops from recruits, instead you will open lootboxes to randomly get different kinds of troops! Oh, and it's an online-only multiplayer-only game now! Enemy lords have been replaced with internet shitlords! The only voice acted line is the classic, fan-favorite "ETS AHLMOST HAARVESTIN SEASON"! Exclamation points! The only downside is the game takes place in 1972, which threw us off for a little but you get used to it!

oh no, in this timeline was i hired by EA? nooooooooo!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Pancakes on April 17, 2018, 06:20:00 pm
I'm here from the future, to brag about our version of Mount & Blade III! Become the jealous, you shall!

In the new Mount & Blade, you will no longer have to train up troops from recruits, instead you will open lootboxes to randomly get different kinds of troops! Oh, and it's an online-only multiplayer-only game now! Enemy lords have been replaced with internet shitlords! The only voice acted line is the classic, fan-favorite "ETS AHLMOST HAARVESTIN SEASON"! Exclamation points! The only downside is the game takes place in 1972, which threw us off for a little but you get used to it!

oh no, in this timeline was i hired by EA? nooooooooo!

Haha, fool! Everyone was hired by EA!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on April 17, 2018, 06:23:23 pm
Hired? You mean conscripted, right?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Pancakes on April 17, 2018, 06:48:12 pm
In the future, the EA draft took most of us into the Great DRM War. Thankfully, it was the DRM war to end all DRM wars, so nothing to worry about!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 17, 2018, 06:49:29 pm
Hired? You mean conscripted, right?

more like indentured servitude.

we're all paid in random loot boxes that may or may not contain salary. each one costs 90% of your usual check and they're mandatory, like most places that have direct deposit. 

most times i get a key for a 20% discount on a skin in a game i haven't (or don't want to) buy. inflation pushed the price of Mass Effect Virgo Stellar Stream to $120 USD.

In the future, the EA draft took most of us into the Great DRM War. Thankfully, it was the DRM war to end all DRM wars, so nothing to worry about!

sidenote: the Pro DRM side won. you need to literally walk to your nearest EA compliance office to activate the code manually. it costs 20$ and needs to be renewed every month.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on April 17, 2018, 07:11:50 pm
You know what my absolute perfect game would be, which I could probably get lost in forever after?

Dwarf Fortress style world generation and character development, coupled with M&B's gameplay where you wander around an open world map going on adventures Skyrim-style learning about the procedurally-generated history of the world or build up political influence/territory and lead armies.

Such a game would probably suck up 20,000 hours of my life.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on April 17, 2018, 07:20:38 pm
So basically Adventure Mode but with M&B type graphics and gameplay?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 17, 2018, 07:22:31 pm
oh right, can't you 'claim' towns in adv. mode?

idk really, i've never really played adv mode, im a fort boy.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2018, 08:54:55 pm
Should really give it a try. It's a totally different beast but enthralling in its own way.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on April 17, 2018, 10:47:34 pm
So basically Adventure Mode but with M&B type graphics and gameplay?

Pretty close to that, yeah.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ZeroGravitas on April 18, 2018, 02:52:47 pm
Hired? You mean conscripted, right?

more like indentured servitude.

we're all paid in random loot boxes that may or may not contain salary. each one costs 90% of your usual check and they're mandatory, like most places that have direct deposit. 

most times i get a key for a 20% discount on a skin in a game i haven't (or don't want to) buy. inflation pushed the price of Mass Effect Virgo Stellar Stream to $120 USD.

In the future, the EA draft took most of us into the Great DRM War. Thankfully, it was the DRM war to end all DRM wars, so nothing to worry about!

sidenote: the Pro DRM side won. you need to literally walk to your nearest EA compliance office to activate the code manually. it costs 20$ and needs to be renewed every month.

the least realistic part of this post is the idea of inflation
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on August 22, 2018, 04:21:06 pm
New Bannerlord trailer from Gamescom 2018 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=119&v=t4rC1awiovs)

Direct your attention to 1:50... that was definitely two people felled with a single axe-swipe.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 22, 2018, 04:26:28 pm
Look's like it's time to git gud again.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on August 22, 2018, 04:38:04 pm
IGN also has 6 minutes of early game gameplay up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTVKMcWu_CE

And I think there is a half hour clip with more gameplay and an interview from some other site, but I can't remember which. The game's looking cool, but I doubt it'll be out this year.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on August 22, 2018, 05:23:32 pm
Good thing Warband still holds up with mods.

Still, this is looking good. Like a proper iteration of the game, which is pretty much exactly what I'm hoping for. Would be nice to see more of the late game, though. I'm hoping there is more keep you engaged as a vassal and/or running a kingdom than in Warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on August 22, 2018, 08:27:04 pm
At this point is just feels like Taleworlds is teasing us with how we can't play the game yet.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 22, 2018, 08:32:46 pm
At this point is just feels like Taleworlds is teasing us with how we can't play the game yet.

Gotta bring the hype train up to speed to crash into cash cow station, y'know?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dennislp3 on August 22, 2018, 08:53:29 pm
I think we will all be dead by the time this comes out...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on August 22, 2018, 09:14:36 pm
im so hyped about what little i've seen that when people say bannerlord, i get all "FUCK YEAH" and have the strongest urge to play warband.

while we're on the subject of mount and blade in general, what's everyone's favorite mods?

i like viking conquest, the dlc/mod made by the same people who made brytenwalda, a really good early medieval era mod.

i also like nova aetas, a massive vanilla plus mod that adds the ability to settle a new area thats populated by hostile tribesmen.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on August 22, 2018, 09:36:01 pm
I was on a Warsword Conquest binge for a few days earlier this month. Apparently it's getting a massive update in a month or two, though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 23, 2018, 08:05:34 am
the 1200 mod was really fun... as for multiplayer, Mount & Musket was baller, NW was great but MM was where it was at.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on August 23, 2018, 08:58:17 am
There was some Chinese-translated mod, 'Light and Darkness' I think, that added in stamina and dashing that was nice.  Also had a hilariously overpowered troop tree for villager women that gave them a really strong triple-shot crossbow.  Arrowstorm is my favorite tactic, so I enjoyed that.

Gekokujo is pretty cool too.  Warring States period Japan mod.  I didn't really like the change that lumps bowmen and gunners together, but samurai battles to Touhou metal is pretty great.

I can't remember what it was called, but there was one other mod, too.  It let me start as a Rebel, which made all the lords hate me, but all the villages and cities love me, and I remember it mostly because it was the only playthrough I really ever had enough strength to take on cities and lords.  There were axeguns and riflespears and my army was mostly successful because I had dudes hauling around these like rad hwacha rocket launcher things, and I think a couple months in demons appeared, and I whooped some and stole a sickass demon horse and like a Revan mask or something.  Good times.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on August 23, 2018, 09:10:54 am
I liked the GoT mod.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on August 23, 2018, 09:38:29 am
It's alright. What I kept finding was every faction I joined would start getting the screws put to them. I sweated it out as a Lannister Soldier for a long time before getting a promotion, and spent most of the game following lesser Lannister lords around while they get their shit pushed in, meanwhile Tywin was off somewhere with half the Lannister army doing who knows what the fuck.

Every time I play M&B I wanna join a house or faction but always end up being an independent mercenary. Easier to make money, easier to move around, and you rarely get backed in to a corner like you do whenever you're playing as a faction.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on August 23, 2018, 11:59:08 am
I liked the GoT mod.
A Clash of Kings or A World of Ice and Fire?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on August 23, 2018, 12:26:10 pm
Clash of Kings, I believe... Not sure. As I recall, I used the one which seemed more complete and featureful but also had a pretty douchey developer.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on August 24, 2018, 02:32:34 am
I always joined the Nords in vanilla.  It's always endlessly amusing to me to have a massive thick Nord infantry line and see a calvalry charge just stop dead and get torn to pieces just from sheer mass of bodies.  That and I was terrible with handling cavalry so not having to really worry about any other than myself simplified matters.

Posting to watch by the way.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on August 24, 2018, 04:11:49 am
I also enjoyed a good Nordic gallop stop axe chop head lop off.

I always favoured the Rhodoks though. Just feel so good kicking Swadian knightly arse with a bunch of hill peasants. I guess it's that underdog thing people talk about.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on August 24, 2018, 05:23:25 am
Vaegirs are my favorite.  I love me some arrowstorms.  That, and they were the dudes I always joined back in .808 or whatever version it was I first got M&B.  Vaegirs will always be green-colored in my heart.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 24, 2018, 06:22:45 am
not really a fan of the big cities as shown. hopefully there'll still be the quick location menu to visit places instead of wandering in town
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 24, 2018, 12:40:05 pm
I hope we can get some sort of better big battle system. The current wave system can nullify a lot of either sides advantages.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: jocan2003 on August 24, 2018, 02:56:56 pm
isnt there a mod that change that? battlesize slider or something?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2018, 04:56:59 pm
isnt there a mod that change that? battlesize slider or something?
Yeah but... if you jack it up high you will kinda obliterate your computer. So you still have waves. Not as bad as vanilla, but still waves.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 24, 2018, 07:30:27 pm
some kinda CKII cross would be cool, with a left flank -- center -- right flank system. Where you get to control one and your victory or loss affects the others.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: thvaz on August 25, 2018, 07:24:50 am
So, they still don't have a release date?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on August 25, 2018, 08:21:18 am
I was hoping for 2018 but at this rate it won't be until 2019... if we're lucky =/
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on August 25, 2018, 11:05:04 am
At Gamescom they said the game will go into open beta at some point within the next 365 days. So probably around summer next year.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on September 25, 2018, 12:49:47 pm
read their dev blog:

Dev Blog 20/09/18
https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/78

i like what they're saying about quests; some of the more involved ones will need to be hunted. gotta track down merchant leaders and nobles and build that mercenary book of business.

im really just posting this in hopes of easing some of my hype.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2018, 01:23:59 pm
I just hope they make a lot of the quests more practical as far as actually doing them. A lot of the quests in warband are pointless, because the chances of you finding the specific bandit group in question was always very slim. And even then you had to hope that someone else didn't randomly kill them off before you actually caught up to them.

Or my pet peeve, the Ransom or Rescue a noble quest where you literally couldn't ransom them. I wasted an hour or two once trying to figure out who to actually pay the ransom for said noble. I had the money, just needed to know how to use it. Eventually looked it up and was rather annoyed to find out that the game text didn't actually match what you could do in game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 25, 2018, 03:59:34 pm
In other vague news there's been some stuff put up on the chopping block.

Most notably, you will no longer be raising castles in villages. That bit of dynamic gameplay is going bye bye.

Secondly they don't know if coop will be happening anymore. They'd like to do it, but have said it will take the form of a second player commanding armies during battles, but having no real input or action on the world map. So basically if it happens, the most you'll be doing is bringing along a buddy for battles and assigning them some troops to command. Still better than nothing I suppose.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on September 25, 2018, 04:02:27 pm
How exactly would co-op work otherwise? Just have the game constantly unpaused? And if a battle starts does the other player take command of one of the sergeants in the battling army?

Hopefully all the effort they had put into getting mods to function better will allow the possibility of co-op stuff after release, even if unofficially.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 25, 2018, 04:13:49 pm
ptw
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on September 25, 2018, 06:26:06 pm
Gameplay for a second player would probably be 'watch videos on your phone until in a scene or a battle' but it would be nice to have other guys to foist Leader skills onto.  Maybe they could increase your party size by a little bit - maybe 1 per CHA and howevermuch Leadership gives - and then all those units are paid for by the main player, but commanded in battles by the second player, and stuff?  So multiplayer guys could command little squads of their own dudes, while the mainguy does the main army.  Transfer dudes in and out of their squads too or something.

It'd kinda be like Freelancer 2.0 I guess.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on December 29, 2018, 12:24:43 pm
https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/87

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/89

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/91

more blog updates, holy shit. so there will be children and dynasties, settlement management improvements with the ability to set them to auto upgrade, and a persuasion system that tracks what you do and events within the game.

this game is slowly becoming the only thing i want in video games
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Majestic7 on December 29, 2018, 12:30:26 pm
All the strategic layer things are really lovely to have, but the game will succeed or fail based on how good the combat is. Back in the day M&B was the first game where mounted combat felt "right" and fun. I hope it can become the new standard in melee combat games again, with and without mounts.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on December 29, 2018, 12:40:43 pm
Maybe we'll get to play it in 2019...
But I said the same thing about 2018
We have be close...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cyroth on December 29, 2018, 12:48:53 pm
Cool, a new thing for my usual campaign to-do list.

- Replace the swadian king
- Turn harmless Ymira into the most powerful person on the continent, for the lulz
- Exterminate the Khanate (seriously, screw mounted archers)
- Have a child from every available lord / with every available lady
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on December 29, 2018, 01:07:23 pm
The wait is long, but damn if they don't seem to be adding in a lot of cool stuff.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on December 29, 2018, 04:13:25 pm
I'm certainly ready to run down fake Rome with my psuedo-Slavic Sturgian bros.

I really have to wonder how many generations you'll go through in a typical game considering that now the years go by faster. I don't remember which dev diary it's in, but they reduced the amount of days in a year significantly. I can't remember if every month is 15 days now or if every season is 15, but either way I imagine we'll be seeing tons of people dying of old age.

Edit: Found it. (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/76) Apparently every year is 84 days, which seems a decent pace?  Probably best to just stab dudes you don't like instead of waiting for them to keel over though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: GPeter on January 16, 2019, 08:22:08 am
(I know this is for Bannerlord, but as bannerlord isn't out yet, and the Warband thread is pretty old, I'm posting it here.)


Recently I've been having a little problem/doubt, one that I couldn't get help on the Taleworlds forum nor the Steam Discussion.
Here's the story:

On my last gameplay, I've been trying a different aproach. I wanted to start a couple enterprises, and make the most ou of little. I went around and started 3 Dyeworks (Rivacheg, Curaw and Khudan) Rivacheg already gives lots of profit by itself, so I let it go Idle. As for the others, I usually try to buy cheap Raw Silk in Rivacheg, and Cheap Dyes with the Sarranid. Then I come back and put the supplies in my enterprises. The point is: I came to curaw, and stocked 2 batches of silk and 4 batches of dyes. Theoretically, It should be fully stocked for the next 2 weeks, and partially stocked for the 3 weeks after that. Ok, time passes, there's the weekly budget, 1900 denars from curaw, the stock is working. But once I got back to curaw and checked it's inventory, it was all gone! Everything! What happened to all those supplies? Shouldn't it have used only 1 batch of each? Or does it uses more than 1? Or is it a bug?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on January 17, 2019, 12:11:40 am
aw, you had me excited.

in theory, its supposed to take 1 of each. it may have absorbed them in advance. most people don't directly invest supplies to their enterprises so this could be a bug that flew under the radar.



aside from X4, which im letting get patched before i buy, this is the only game im actively watching and want

another blog update: https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/92

its about the conversation menu and camera. this has gotta be one of the last things on their list right? i mean, usually UI is one of the last things on the checklist. my hype has literally ascended to lunacy.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sharp on January 17, 2019, 06:13:29 pm
I think Bannerlord is tying in their release date with Star Citizen
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on January 17, 2019, 11:42:11 pm
They said in Gamescom the beta would be available this year. We'll see if that comes true. I think it's pretty likely, but I won't be shocked if it doesn't.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on January 18, 2019, 02:20:11 am
I'm certainly ready to run down fake Rome with my psuedo-Slavic Sturgian bros.

I really have to wonder how many generations you'll go through in a typical game considering that now the years go by faster. I don't remember which dev diary it's in, but they reduced the amount of days in a year significantly. I can't remember if every month is 15 days now or if every season is 15, but either way I imagine we'll be seeing tons of people dying of old age.

Edit: Found it. (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/76) Apparently every year is 84 days, which seems a decent pace?  Probably best to just stab dudes you don't like instead of waiting for them to keel over though.

The dynasty system reminds me a lot of the old Microprose game Sword of the Samurai, which is a really good thing as I loved that system.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on January 18, 2019, 06:40:00 am
(I know this is for Bannerlord, but as bannerlord isn't out yet, and the Warband thread is pretty old, I'm posting it here.)


Recently I've been having a little problem/doubt, one that I couldn't get help on the Taleworlds forum nor the Steam Discussion.
Here's the story:

On my last gameplay, I've been trying a different aproach. I wanted to start a couple enterprises, and make the most ou of little. I went around and started 3 Dyeworks (Rivacheg, Curaw and Khudan) Rivacheg already gives lots of profit by itself, so I let it go Idle. As for the others, I usually try to buy cheap Raw Silk in Rivacheg, and Cheap Dyes with the Sarranid. Then I come back and put the supplies in my enterprises. The point is: I came to curaw, and stocked 2 batches of silk and 4 batches of dyes. Theoretically, It should be fully stocked for the next 2 weeks, and partially stocked for the 3 weeks after that. Ok, time passes, there's the weekly budget, 1900 denars from curaw, the stock is working. But once I got back to curaw and checked it's inventory, it was all gone! Everything! What happened to all those supplies? Shouldn't it have used only 1 batch of each? Or does it uses more than 1? Or is it a bug?

No idea but my first attempt at troubleshooting would see how the price is over the next few weeks. If at some point the revenue plummets, then you know it used all the stock.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Seamas on February 14, 2019, 02:18:43 am
Goodness, it seems as though this game is never going to come out.  How many more of these tantalizing bite-sized dev blogs am I going to have to read to sate my desire?!  What are they building in there?!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on February 14, 2019, 01:05:11 pm
CK2, but with the ability to personally cave someone's skull in.
An open world RPG.
A medieval battle simulator.

And probably some other descriptors you could throw in.

Anticipation over 9000.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2019, 11:33:32 am
https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/mount-and-blade-2-bannerlord-is-finally-getting-a-closed-beta/

The time of legends is coming upon us
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 30, 2019, 01:06:53 pm
Link to relevant official blog post (https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/103)

Quote from: Relevant block of text
Of course Skirmish mode, like other multiplayer modes, is still under development and there is still a lot of work needed to fine tune and balance everything. To do this more efficiently, we are planning to carry out a closed multiplayer beta where we hope to get help and feedback from members of our community.

We realise that this overview of Skirmish has probably raised a lot of questions about multiplayer in general, especially for Warband veterans. However, fear not! We will discuss much more about multiplayer in future blogs, including Bannerlord’s new class system, matchmaking, additional game modes, and, of course, details about the upcoming closed beta!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on August 20, 2019, 03:22:20 pm
https://youtu.be/yCk6Jk7DvrA

It's coming to Early Access in March
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Slax on August 20, 2019, 03:46:52 pm
https://youtu.be/yCk6Jk7DvrA

It's coming to Early Access in March
Early access. After SO many years of development. Kind of a bad joke, no?
Probably won't leave early access, ever. They might just stop calling it that but damn, this stinks of eternal beta.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on August 20, 2019, 03:50:36 pm
I'm sad that they're only going to have a skirmish mode, multiplayer in March.  That isn't really the part of the game that I care about, at all.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on August 20, 2019, 04:13:16 pm
I wonder if they'd just said "no" to Multiplayer if we'd already have the game by now. Considering none of their other games had MP up to this point, I'm wondering if a lot of their time has been spent just figuring that out.

Also yeah. Not encouraged by the decision to go in to Early Access.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on August 20, 2019, 05:08:35 pm
Warband has multiplayer, and from what I can tell it's quite popular.

People speculate that a few years after development began they had to scrap everything and start over.

Also how they're trying to make everything about the game be moddable in some way and have as little hardcoded stuff as possible.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on August 20, 2019, 07:52:01 pm
I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 20, 2019, 08:40:07 pm
Yea, for the record people are STILL playing Warband multiplayer, it was wildly popular in its prime, with dozens of mods hosting servers with upwards of 100 players (CRPG, Ultimate Invasion, Viking Invasion, Mount & Musket, the various RPG mods, and et al.) (GKsiege and various NW events regularly reached the 200 max limit) not to mention the still somewhat popular vanilla.

I didn't play Chivalry, but Mordhau and any other of the timing based melee games are just so bleh in comparison to the simple but powerful combat of Warband. While I love the singleplayer, I'm mostly looking forward to being able to play with tons of people with that combat system again.

I'm super worried about skirmish as it really feels more commercial than what made Warband MP so fun (part of which was having such an awesome rogues gallery of mods and servers). So we'll see, I'm certainly concerned about both the longevity of EA and the quality of the MP.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: newsamsam on August 20, 2019, 08:51:55 pm
I wish they carry invasion mode over bannerlords multiplayer soon after some patches and updates.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 21, 2019, 06:49:51 am
https://youtu.be/yCk6Jk7DvrA

It's coming to Early Access in March

so it definitely looks like warlord + bloom and particle effects. is there any information around on what new features will be in SP&MP? combat just seems more of the same, which is fine since it was very good to begin with, but a bunch post processing eye candy seems a lackluster presentation of the product, especially since the issues with the rigid animation, lack of animation variety and lifelessness of the npc are all still there. 
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: MorleyDev on August 21, 2019, 07:36:08 am
Seems like they forgot to include an explicit NDA in with beta codes, so at least one streamer got a full hour of multiplayer onto twitch before the request to stop came in (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/469791525).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on August 21, 2019, 10:46:58 am
Bah, the only thing I care about is the singleplayer campaign.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on August 21, 2019, 03:04:03 pm
Considering the original Mount & Blade was early access through their site for something like four years (I remember playing it when there was only one town called Zendar and most of the game's features or art assets didn't exist yet), I don't see how their new game going Early Access is any surprise.

If their development cycle is anything like the original Mount & Blade, we'll have a fun game to play all along the way as it develops and a complete game a few years from now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on August 21, 2019, 03:35:18 pm
I guess after this many games with this much success, I was hoping they'd moved beyond the original M&B levels of release jank.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on August 21, 2019, 07:29:36 pm
TBH if they didn't do multiplayer I wouldn't even consider buying. I lived for 100+ player siege servers on Warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Chaosegg on September 14, 2019, 09:50:21 pm
TBH if they didn't do multiplayer I wouldn't even consider buying. I lived for 100+ player siege servers on Warband.
Did you play the CRPG servers? I think I must have put thousands of hours into those... good times when the pings were stable/similar... but there was something a bit off about the netcode in that game I think, so lately I have been playing the Middle-Earth warband mod: Last Days of the 3rd Age, which is excellent (single player).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on September 15, 2019, 09:01:00 am
I know you weren't asking me, but I played cRPG myself (on the NA servers). It was one of the most fun (and infuriating) times I've had playing video games. I played for at least a year straight, which is quite something for me considering my tendency to hop between a few games due to my attention span. I never really got good at it, but I'd say I was... above average I guess? I never really used the 'meta' weapons or armor, preferring to use the pike (later renamed "longspear" after they added in an actual pike) to support my teammates. I remember for a long while there was a bug where an overhead swing with that weapon would go straight through your teammates and hit the enemy which was extremely exploitable.

I found a cool group of people to play with (they called themselves "Eastern Tsardom") but I suspect one of the main reasons they let me play was because they thought me raging was funny. I will admit, the rage is one of the reasons I try to avoid competitive games, but cRPG (and Planetside 2) both somehow captivated me despite being competitive in nature.

Also, there was a sub-gamemode called Rageball which was pretty damn fun and could have become its own mod in all likelihood. Maybe in Bannerlord.....?

E: you also have to consider that often times there were 100+ people in a server at a time so it's kind've a miracle that they ran as well as they did.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on February 25, 2020, 07:52:20 pm
by the power of hype, THREAD NECROOOOOOOoooo

its literally only 4 weeks away and someone just recently reminded me of this while i was at work and now its risen to the top of my attention span.
do not let the lowercase letters fool you, im at levels of hype i havent felt since fallout 4. i hyped so much i must have watched the final trailers for it over 100 times a week. and while fo4 was only ok-mediocre at release, it fulfilled most of my hopes and mods fixed what was left.

bannerlord, however, has set my hype to omegaalphamax levels. whats funny though is even though im super excited, im not expecting anything more than warband with fancier graphics. i know the blogs said so much, but experience has made me temper down my hopes to what i can deduce will be in from gameplay footage and from warband. still has me christmas-morning when you're 8 yrs old hyped.

relevant hype train related image:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 25, 2020, 08:10:56 pm
I still play Phantasy Calradia a lot . TBH it´s like a lightweight fictorum in a way. I particularily like assaulting castles after getting fireball because you ramp up xp like crazy. If you have some wizards with you (Or have risen some death knights) you basically blast forts clean with fire.

BTW: I kind of favor Guspav´s original over the 2018 guy. He did polish some things a bit but... eh. 0.723 is funnier to play.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: SalmonGod on February 26, 2020, 12:44:43 am
I think the only other time I've been as hyped in the past 10 years is when I picked up my Vive.  I have 1123 hours in Warband.  I have trouble enjoying the melee combat in most action/adventure games because of it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: delphonso on February 26, 2020, 06:19:49 am
Warband is one of those games that I still lose hours to. It's always riveting to me, and I think I spent half my university years claiming Calradia for the Rhodoks.

I played plenty of mods. Nova Aetas was a big one and is still what I think of for Bannerlord. Basically more systems, more options, but at the base, the same game. I'll be enjoying it by proxy, though, as I don't have a capable computer.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2020, 07:54:04 am
Will early access include single player or will it just be multiplayer at first?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dehimos on February 26, 2020, 10:55:44 am
Both.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/Mount__Blade_II_Bannerlord/
Quote
Singleplayer Features: Several planned single player features may be missing or incomplete. These include but are not limited to: full game controller support, some skill and perk effects, crafting, some aspects of sieges, and clan, army and kingdom management.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on February 26, 2020, 11:54:37 am
Blegh, will have to wait for it to finally come out of early access then.

Also, I am a shite melee player, so AI fighting smartness will be lvl 1.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2020, 12:20:42 pm
Yeah. I really don't want to spoil my impressions of Bannerlord by getting in to Early Access when it's still janky and broken. As much as I want to play it, I've tempered my expectations many times since its announcement, and I don't see any reason to undercut them further by jumping in to Early Access.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2020, 02:13:50 pm
I mean, I was with the original since it was first broken and janky, so... ;)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Inarius on February 26, 2020, 02:56:45 pm
i have been playing M&B for the last...11 years, even before warbands. And I have been waiting since. Played many mods, single & multi.
I can wait a few months more. But I don't want an half baked game.

So : No early for me, i'll pay a full price for a full game !
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on February 26, 2020, 03:57:39 pm
I'll most likely play EA, then move on to something else for a while, then when it comes out fully I'll come back again.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on February 26, 2020, 04:33:39 pm
im most def getting the ea version, playing and waiting. i played the og mount and blade back when it was version .808! it was a game about swadia and vaegirs (yeah, only 2 factions!) duking it out on a small map with only 2 companions; marnid and borcha.
oh how the times has changed, but m&b is like, the premier indie success story; one little game by a very small team, and now they're making it big with this almost AAA title based on an enhanced version of their original game. im rooting for them, if the game releases janky, they have a history of sticking with their games so im willing to give it a chance.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2020, 04:49:13 pm
Quote
and now they're making it big with this almost AAA title based on an enhanced version of their original game.

Which is why I'm waiting. Personally, I'm a little sick of watching the sausage get made in the Indie space.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on February 26, 2020, 05:04:20 pm
All those talks about MB2 made me remember it's been a very long time since i didn't played Warband.
So googling around to check which mods appeared or were further developped since last time, i noticed what seems to be what people have been dreaming about regarding the Mount&Blade serie : no more overworld map , you actually move along with your troops always in the actual landscape maps like some open world game !
Explorer :
https://www.nexusmods.com/mbwarband/mods/6277?tab=description
https://www.moddb.com/mods/explorer1

From a look to some of the videos for this, it seems to work a bit like those STALKER game, you reach the border of the current map and it load the next (and wow it loads fast).
I'm super impressed as i didn't thought this was possible in Warband. But man i sure hope this mod will continue being developped, the potential is enormous.
I will have to try this when i'll have more time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on March 08, 2020, 08:20:06 am
For Warband i noticed that Prophecy of Pendor 3.9.5 got released a few days ago.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/saxondragon/news/prophesy-of-pendor-v395-release

Impressive the amount of work that went into this, not only it has huge content and looks awesome (visually it's much better than it was when i played it years ago) but it's so well optimised that it runs as smoothly and fast as Native !
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: MCreeper on March 10, 2020, 05:42:22 am
For Warband i noticed that Prophecy of Pendor 3.9.5 got released a few days ago.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/saxondragon/news/prophesy-of-pendor-v395-release

Impressive the amount of work that went into this, not only it has huge content and looks awesome (visually it's much better than it was when i played it years ago) but it's so well optimised that it runs as smoothly and fast as Native !
Was surprised by "firearms" skill. Checked unit tree, there is indeed one neutral army\mercenary unit with a gun. How hard it is to get your hands on a gun and how useful it is? When i played this mod first, there was exactly one useful ranged weapon (ruby bow) and it was given for free upon reaching 30 honor or something.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sindain on March 10, 2020, 06:01:57 am
Firearms barely exist in PoP. Theres like one minor faction unit that has arbequisers and that's it.

Also bows are pretty strong in PoP, so I would recommend using those over other ranged weapons.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on March 10, 2020, 10:41:39 pm
So PoP is still being updated, huh? Was hands down the best mod, and it's still being polished. Makes me want to play warband again but I know I'm going to burn out quickly. I've also got conqueror's blade for my army commanding/personal combat fix. Seriously, anyone who likes mount and blade give it a shot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on March 11, 2020, 12:58:04 pm
That conquer blade thing something like Tiger Knight (https://store.steampowered.com/app/415660/Tiger_Knight/)?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on March 14, 2020, 02:33:23 am
It sure looks similar. I don't know how units are controlled in that one but in Conquerors blade everyone gets to control one squad that varies from 30-50 units.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 27, 2020, 02:31:35 pm
The original release date for early access was slated to be the 31st, but they have moved the date up to the 30th and are going to have the game on a small discount, with steeper discounts if you own any of the other games (Warband, Fire and Sword, etc.).

I was going to pay full price for it anyways, but I already took the 31st off from work in anticipation only for them to just now announce this. Probably shouldn't complain, but I wish they had announced this about a week earlier.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 27, 2020, 02:48:54 pm
Well I have the whole day of the 30th off for less than awesome reasons.....I was disappointed that I'd be working the day it actually came out, so.....woot!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 27, 2020, 03:11:11 pm
The original release date for early access was slated to be the 31st, but they have moved the date up to the 30th and are going to have the game on a small discount, with steeper discounts if you own any of the other games (Warband, Fire and Sword, etc.).

nvm i found it on the taleworlds site, i usually get updates but for some reason that one slipped by. yay for the discount and push up tho

im working from home anyway next week so yay. business in the front, party in the back all week next week, ay.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Burnt Pies on March 27, 2020, 03:15:19 pm
where did you find this info? i believe you, but i would like to read up on the discounts and why they decided to push the date up.

im working from home anyway next week so yay. business in the front, party in the back all week next week, ay.

It's in the latest devblog. https://steamcommunity.com/games/261550/announcements/detail/2084544594680066864
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 27, 2020, 03:50:07 pm
Oh this is just the Early Access release. I thought that had already happen. Hrmmmmm. Still debating whether I'm ready to jump in.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on March 27, 2020, 04:48:29 pm
I'm gonna give it until next Friday, check out some early reviews and gameplay videos, then decide.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 27, 2020, 04:52:46 pm
The dev log is pretty clear about what will be in there.

And the idea of reused scenes for towns, features turned off, copy/pasted audio lines and the inevitable bugs (seen lots of content the last couple weeks where the troop AI clearly has issues during sieges figuring out what to do) really are kind of dissuading me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 27, 2020, 04:56:18 pm
im most def buying it on release. i'll post some first impressions. im expecting a basic skeleton of a game with only the features warband had short of owning your own kingdom, so im still hyped but not overly so.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on March 27, 2020, 09:16:14 pm
I'll probably buy soon after release so long as I don't hear anything major bad about it. I expect it will take a year or so before it is really good though. "Reused scenes" doesn't deter me at all, seeing as Warband very obviously only had a few castle interiors for example.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on March 27, 2020, 09:21:51 pm
The dev log is pretty clear about what will be in there.

And the idea of reused scenes for towns, features turned off, copy/pasted audio lines and the inevitable bugs (seen lots of content the last couple weeks where the troop AI clearly has issues during sieges figuring out what to do) really are kind of dissuading me.

Apparently the siege AI problem is caused by the mod people use to do single-player sieges in the beta.* Probably still going to be problems on release tho like you say, I mean it is Mount and Blade.

I'm gonna try picking it up on early access release because honestly don't have much else going on right now, and I've been waiting a while. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to try and keep my expectations down since I have read/seen some really mixed opinions on the multiplayer beta.

*from what I've read on the reddit captain mode doesn't have sieges in the multiplayer beta so the mod had to jank together an AI for it from field battles.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: delphonso on March 27, 2020, 09:51:25 pm
I never played M&B for multiplayer, so I was a bit disappointed to hear about AI bugs, but if that's (partially) a mod problem, that's reassuring.

The AI has never been great, but it's predictable,  and that means you can use it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 29, 2020, 12:37:38 pm
its out in 16 hours now, according to steam. im hyped but not super hyped. that kinda hyped a kid would have on a day going to the beach; you are going to enjoy it but with some issues, such as the hot sun and the fact the bathrooms are a 10 minute slog away.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on March 29, 2020, 03:20:47 pm
As with all games, I will wait to see how it plays on some youtuber's channel and read reviews before buying it. Been burned too many times.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 29, 2020, 03:28:27 pm
Surprised they didn't open it up for pre-purchase.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on March 29, 2020, 05:54:57 pm
its out in 16 hours now, according to steam. im hyped but not super hyped. that kinda hyped a kid would have on a day going to the beach; you are going to enjoy it but with some issues, such as the hot sun and the fact the bathrooms are a 10 minute slog away.

Just pee in the ocean, like everybody else.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 29, 2020, 07:23:04 pm
Fish do it so eyyy.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 06:21:28 am
OMG ITS OUT AND ITS 50GB! edit: yeah sorry, wrong folder check. i have work to do today but when im done/get free time, i'll be playing it and i'll post my first impressions. maybe with screenies, we'll see.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on March 30, 2020, 09:53:39 am
I bought it. Steam reports a 8 hour long download, so I won't actually be trying it for a while :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 11:09:05 am
so, to start with: potential spoilers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

some random screengrabs, i'll be adding more as i randomly take them. warning; some potentially big images but i do try to cut them down a bit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

i'll update this post as i go. i have my points roughly organized by type but i'll do a pass through later to clean it up.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2020, 12:45:15 pm
70GB!?  Now that is a deal breaker.  What could they possibly have that would justify 70 GB!?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 12:50:59 pm
70GB!?  Now that is a deal breaker.  What could they possibly have that would justify 70 GB!?

it was actually 50gb, i read the wrong folder, sorry.

and to be fair, its actually 2 games in 1 now, a singleplayer campaign game and a multiplayer game. i can't speak to the multiplayer but the singleplayer is warband on steroids (so far)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Supercharazad on March 30, 2020, 01:25:30 pm
70GB!?  Now that is a deal breaker.  What could they possibly have that would justify 70 GB!?

it was actually 50gb, i read the wrong folder, sorry.

and to be fair, its actually 2 games in 1 now, a singleplayer campaign game and a multiplayer game. i can't speak to the multiplayer but the singleplayer is warband on steroids (so far)

Steam's showing it at a 31 GB download for me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 01:35:50 pm
it unpacks a few items upon dl, i checked the folder itself for the filesize.

still updating my random first thoughts post, the tutorial is very restricting but when it opens up, it opens upppp.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: amjh on March 30, 2020, 02:02:13 pm
I wonder how long it will be before modders can get properly started? That's when we'll see the real potential.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 02:53:16 pm
I wonder how long it will be before modders can get properly started? That's when we'll see the real potential.

not for a while, me thinks. the game is still missing some features and there are some bugs (i haven't really run into any but i have heard some others have). the basic gameplay loop of fighting>looting>upgrading>fighting is solidly implemented. no doubt that i'll find some bugs the deeper i go but im having fun turning these sad peasants into warriors.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 30, 2020, 03:35:06 pm
So what are the big changes in the campaign???

Also I hear Multiplayer has some new modes, but can we still play classically via siege/deathmatch/etc etc etc.???
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 03:42:46 pm
So what are the big changes in the campaign???

so far:

there is a split between clan and kingdom. your clan is your companions, your family and things you directly own. your kingdom is your faction (owning your own kingdom is unimplemented for now). you can send your companions out to do things, like lead their own party. ive yet to join a kingdom, but there is a tab for when you do

there is no camping. not sure if its unimplemented for now, but i haven't figured out how to camp. as a trade off, you can rest within any village now

instead of general reputation with a town, now its relationships with influential figures within that town. you'll see gang leaders with territory, traders with influence, and the mayor: you can recruit basic soldiers of the town culture from them. helping them and building a relationship with these figures=more recruits.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Jopax on March 30, 2020, 03:50:02 pm
Here's a promo link from lindybeige that gives a ~22% discount on the game if bought trough the gamesplanet store. No idea what the store is but hey, if it's legit it's a nice chunk of a discount for a brand new title (https://www.youtube.com/post/UgzYJmIIef9GE9b7ecR4AaABCQ)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Brotato on March 30, 2020, 03:52:31 pm
So what are the big changes in the campaign???

so far:

there is a split between clan and kingdom. your clan is your companions, your family and things you directly own. your kingdom is your faction (owning your own kingdom is unimplemented for now). you can send your companions out to do things, like lead their own party. ive yet to join a kingdom, but there is a tab for when you do

there is no camping. not sure if its unimplemented for now, but i haven't figured out how to camp. as a trade off, you can rest within any village now

instead of general reputation with a town, now its relationships with influential figures within that town. you'll see gang leaders with territory, traders with influence, and the mayor: you can recruit basic soldiers of the town culture from them. helping them and building a relationship with these figures=more recruits.

So after 8 years of waiting for this game, they haven't even implemented all the features which were in the last game? That's pretty disappointing to say the least, but I'll try not to let it damper my mood too much. I suppose it would take me some time to get to the point where I'm ready to start my own faction anyways but somehow I doubt that feature will make it in the game within the next two weeks. Still downloading it as we speak and very excited to play.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 30, 2020, 03:53:59 pm
@Jimbo,

Thanks dudeski,

the clan stuff sounds interessante as does the new reputation system... RIP camping if that part is true though!

@Jopax, ah darn I bought it moments before you posted that lol, also love Lindybeige! (mostly for his historical ponderances)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 30, 2020, 04:00:51 pm
I took the plunge. Let's see what this is all about.

Lol. I couldn't figure out why during combat training my whole desk would shake when I got hit. (I'm wearing head phones.) Turns out the rumble pack on my controller is going off every time I get hit, even though I'm using mouse and keyboard and there are literally no config options involving controllers whatsoever.

The faces are amazing but I feel like when you look at them zoomed out, they all look bug-eyed. Like the LoD is super aggressive or something.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2020, 06:06:30 pm
@Jimbo,

Thanks dudeski,

the clan stuff sounds interessante as does the new reputation system... RIP camping if that part is true though!

@Jopax, ah darn I bought it moments before you posted that lol, also love Lindybeige! (mostly for his historical ponderances)

Hopefully the camping loss is due to some plan to eventually replace it with a build-able player settlement, complete with a quick-and-basic "camp" settlement.  We'll see!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 30, 2020, 06:15:32 pm
im reading alot of the negative reviews and they are so far in 3 categories:

missing features -missing features from warband, feels the same as warband

graphical issues/bugs -lag, stutter, graphics bugs, crashing

personal taste- combat doesn't feel the same as warband, it's harder, not finished enough even though it was developed for 8 years.

i should note a lot of these issues are fixable and the game has only been out for 1 day. stuff will be added. stuff will be fixed.
as for the personal taste issues ive seen; the combat rocks to me. then again, i also felt at home in kingdom come and people shit on that combat system even though its one that requires you to develop new skills in-character and out.
combat is definitely more hardcore than warband. you are not special in this game. you may have basic skills if you generated your character this way but you don't start good with any weapon. you aren't flooded with eager peasants willing to die for you. lords do not let an unknown vagabond into their homes in this. thinking you can run into a group of looters on normal difficulty with good ai and wipe them out super easy when you just started don't fly no more.

i actually blame this on the age of warband. its been out so long and people have played it so much that the minor changes in bannerlord completely fucked their expectations brought over subconsciously from warband. block timing is different, shields aren't invisible hardlight barriers, and weapons have a chance to bounce off. in warband you could go full warlord and leave your soldiers behind to wade thru the enemy. the enemy ai is now just smart enough to try to flank you, which most warband players do not expect. in warband you could rope-a-dope an entire horde of enemies into a single line to take out 1 by 1. and the campaign ai is smart enough to run at the sight of your strong force. they know they dont stand a chance, being only 6 of them vs 24 of you. they will run and being smaller, they are faster. this is actually player behavior carried over to the campaign ai and while it is annoying cuz you can't catch up and pub stomp small groups anymore, it feels more real.

all in all, its going to be a hoot for a week or two and thats price enough for admission for me. taleworlds has a history of working on their games, heck, the og mount and blade was one of the first early access games. so they have the history established for me to lend them trust for bannerlord to become complete with time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on March 30, 2020, 06:52:00 pm
I jumped on it too, mostly been doing tournaments. You can win some neat items in them, lie named weapons and such.

About combat - I like it better than Warband. I'm actually able to block strikes without having to use automatic direction using. The movement of the animations just feels easier to read.

Overall it looks to be mostly Warband But More and Much Better Looking. Some features aren't in, true, but all the ones that are in feels like they've been made more in-depth than they were in M&BW.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 30, 2020, 07:33:14 pm
Quote
Overall it looks to be mostly Warband But More and Much Better Looking.

Played maybe an hour, did the tutorial, I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

This feels like Mount & Blade. Right down to the sorta classic indie jank that has always hung around this game. While the graphics are much nicer, the menus have that sort of minimalist/we just need a UI feel. It's a little weird to see the overall appearance of the game improve this much while the UIs and various menus still look just kinda frumpy. It sorta worked in Warband but here it looks a little out of place. Likewise, there's just a lot of awkward cut to loading screen going on (more on that later..) just like in M&B where it'd just unceremoniously cut to something.

I'm enjoying combat, trying to do it the hard way this time and learn to manually block with the mouse instead of autoblocking or swing with movement direction. Took a few tries to relearn the old M&B "once you land a hit just keep alternating swing direction and chop their ass to pieces" style of gameplay. Also trying to do a full realism difficulty start too, we'll see how bad it is.

The skill system strikes me as sorta needlessly complex? On the other hand I like learn as you do systems, it just took me a min to figure out what focus points were. The perks are generally underwhelming from what I saw. But M&B isn't a "fruity special move" kinda game so that's forgivable.

Faces look great and I know they showed themselves recreating people from RL in game.....but after hitting the randomize button a few dozen times, people all tend to look the same to me, outrageously shiny specular effects on the cheeks or not. I think it's the huge, expressive eyes everyone has, they all have that same kinda look.

The intro music sounds like someone sat there and listened to all the Conan sound tracks for hours, then dialed it back a notch from there.

Now for the bad. This game is leaking memory like a SOB. After having it up for maybe 3 hours and doing some alt-tabbing, my rig was using 14 _gigs_ of memory. To BL's credit it didn't crash as most games are wont to do when you alt-tab on them or memory gets super tight, but holy shit. No bueno. I'm going to evaluate it some more but I think it's safe to say this thing needs a lot of optimization. In game the frames are....ok, with the default performance settings it shipped with and/or recommended. But there's a lot of hitching right around when combat starts for me, which is a damn inconvenient time to lag. And this was just the tutorial, forget 500 guys on the field.

Lastly loading screens. Omg, loading screens, and the load times are on the edge of "this is taking too long." Maybe that had to do with the above mentioned issue, maybe not. I can't put my finger quite on where there are too many or why just right now, but it's the feeling I had after the last hour or so dinking around with it. Especially when the game just sometimes kinda freezes and I'm like, did it crash? Then it jumps to a loading screen. (Which then loads to an in-engine cutscene.) Between performance and execution, it's a little jank. Classic Taleworlds jank.

So basically, it's exactly what I remember most M&B games starting out like :P I'm liking it overall and am going back to it now, but if Early Access games make you squeamish for any real reasons, give it some more time to cook. FWIW though the combat, the thing you're mostly there for, seems to work pretty well, feel pretty good to me and looks better than it ever has.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on March 30, 2020, 07:38:31 pm
I'm enjoying it, and I'm not even out of the tutorial. It feels like someone took the basic Mount and Blade formula and added a hefty coat of polish... Which is exactly what happened.

Everything just feels... Better. Looks nicer is just the start.

I did get my ass handed to me over and over in the combat tutorial, but my character has *no* melee skills, so I'm not sure if it is me being bad, the AI being good, or just my character's low skills. I was never all that great at Warband's melee combat, so shrug. So long as I can have my dudes kill stuff for me while I ride around picking people off with a bow, I'll be OK.

Edit: One thing that is way better is quests. You visit a village, one of the people has a blue "!" by their picture, you can click it and get a summary of what they want, and then you decide if you want to talk to them from there (the loading screen to talk to people sucks a little, but that is just how M&B is). Also, reputation with prominent people in the village has a concrete and transparent benefit: You can recruit more/better guys from them. Sure, village rep did the same thing in Warband, but it wasn't clear by how much. Here you can see exactly what you could get if your rep was better, and how much more rep you need.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 30, 2020, 08:14:44 pm
So I agree with pretty much everything said here: to sum up my feelings, I'll simply say that there are many SMALL changes that go a long way in making the campaign come much more alive--which is very much appreciated. Combat feels as good if not better than Warband. And YES, the loading screens are brutal... honestly the only bad thing I've experienced so far.

Aside from the campaign stuff and graphics and x/y/z little changes, I think the biggest thing for me is how much better/smoother the order system is--I'm still figuring it out a bit, but it's pretty flexible and allows you to actually have your infantry defend competently against other unit types.

EDIT: Only thing I haven't successfully done yet: is chambering still a feature???
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 30, 2020, 08:19:36 pm
So yeah, about 20 minutes in, and I've watched the game go from using 6 gigs of memory up to 12 now. Could be a memory leak, or an insanely hungry beast, but it needs some optimization big time.

Also lel, get done with the tutorial, get to Lycaron.....massive town, and literally no one on the streets. Then I go in to Pottery Shop and find the owner pinned in a corner by 3 Notaries.

It's kinda funny how exactly like M&B this feels. I'm not sure where they pulled their demo gameplay they were showing off from, because literally the major city next to the end of the tutorial is practically barren.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on March 30, 2020, 08:28:04 pm
I'm pretty sure there is a memory leak somewhere, but that is a pretty obvious bug and so probably soon to be fixed.

The level up mechanic is fairly intuitive. So far I like it at least as much as I ever liked the old one from Warband. It isn't particularly interesting, but it also doesn't seem bad. I give it a solid "eh" out of 10.

In other news: I need to try a character who has smithing. I visited a city and clicked on "visit smithy" just to see what was there, and wow. Custom weapons! You can make your very own sword from a wide selection of bits. Very cool.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on March 30, 2020, 09:03:01 pm
I am really awful without a shield.  It is an indisputable fact.  Maybe the devs will one day relent on the no auto-block change, cause it looks like I won't be using two-handers very often.  Unless I find one with some insane speed.

Anyways, just came here cause I got my first crash.

On a positive note, so far the game is basically M&B++.  Not a bad thing.  Being able to press Alt to find important people is a yuge QoL improvement.  Makes walking around to find things bearable.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on March 30, 2020, 10:22:27 pm
Just did a quest to rescue some landlord's daughter from her scuzzy boyfriend. Boyfriend gets mad and attacks, 1-shots my companion and then me before I can even take my weapon out. Fun...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2020, 12:06:03 am
EDIT: Only thing I haven't successfully done yet: is chambering still a feature???

Yes, I managed to do one yesterday (clambering is when you block as part of your strike right). You get a special blue message in the texty field too when you do so it's easy to notice when it happens.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2020, 12:42:56 am
So after a few hours...

It's fun but man it needs some work. And I feel like there is a really, really big gap between what has been shown in the past and what we're seeing now. Like, I just did some of the gang leader fights....doesn't play out even remotely like was demo'd a while back. It's just like a crappy M&B1 / Warband event, with a small sorta dynamic chat event right before you just slug it out in a small instance the game spins up for you. That takes you two loading screens to get to.

Some of the tech just doesn't look good. The eyes, my god, they are starting to bug the hell out of me. Everyone looks like an inhuman android when they're looking at you. Between that and the semi-random facial animation loops, you get some really bizarre, creeping looking NPCs. It's like beyond a certain distance, the LoD on eyes just turns off so they go from sort of alive looking (as in when you're in super close up during character creation) that move around subtly to soulless dead orbs staring at you robotically. The NPCs look like synths! Especially when you attack a gang of bandits and there's three of them standing there shoulder to shoulder, looking at you with those eyes....*shudder*

Tried to do the tournament but found it's just completely unbalanced? I'm going in wearing like quilted armor while at least half the other opponents wear actual armor. They're hitting me for 70+ damage a swing. A solid connection to their dome gets me....16 damage. I managed to get to the final round multiple times, even completely out leveled and out geared by no-name troops like Imperial Heavy Cavalry. But when I have to land upwards of 10 solid strikes to defeat them and they need just three....yeah. What gives? Are you granted armor based on your level or what? In Warband I remember everyone got the same equipment during tourneys, so it really only came down to your stats versus theirs, and your combat abilities. Not having the stats for good damage I can understand, it's an uphill battle. But cloth armor versus, like, Lamellar? That's just not fair. They have metal helms, I have a cloth hood. Is it really just throwing line troops in their with their battlefield armor while the player and notable NPCs get issued training gear? I don't get it.

Maybe part of this is realistic level settings. It's challenging but I'm enjoying it. "Easy" settings would probably be more enjoyable from a gaming perspective, but I'd worry it'd maybe be just a little too easy.

Anyone figured out how to trade with your companions? Or is it just another feature not yet implemented?

One feature I do super appreciate is price comparisons in the Trade window. There's trade rumors, which are often false, but then it remembers prices of stuff you've scene recently and throws that up on the screen when you're going to buy. Some pretty huge savings / profits to be made there if you're paying attention.

I dunno, there is a lot of work still that needs to go in to the game. This is starting to look a little like "we need people to pay to help finish development." Like, there are no dialog options for practically anyone I've talked to. The shell of it is there, but it's like very little is hooked up in the background.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2020, 12:59:41 am
Quick reaponae: Companions: In the inventory screen, look at your name field, there are arrows beside it, clicking these changes character
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2020, 01:06:48 am
Ah, thanks.

More ponderings:

-Why is a Simple Bastard sword considered a viable weapon for civilian clothes loadout, but a Falchion is not? The whole civilian loadout thing largely seems to be about gang fights and little else. I mean, I get it. It's just weirdly specific.

-I think corpses all use the same basic model once they hit the ground. I looked at myself during a failed tournament match and the face of the body I was looking at where I fell was not my character. I started looking around at all the other fallen combatants, and besides facial hair, everyone seems to have the same face.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 31, 2020, 01:08:08 am
Not going to write a huge impressions thing but so far I'm enjoying it. I didn't get to play much but I have my first companion and a group of 20-ish newbies. I don't know if I'm just really rusty after having not played in ages or if I'm just used to longer reach weapons but the tiny 1-handers they give you just don't cut it for me. They also seemed to have removed swinging with spear weapons... which is disappointing but understandable. Guess I'll just have to find a polearm that allows swings.

I've mostly hung out in Battania territory and I've noticed that the towns don't sell armor or hats, just peasant clothes. I go over to empire territory and they are selling helmets and body armor so I don't know what the deal is. I had to get a helmet by winning a tournament, which is great for covering up my guy's ugly face.

Speaking of which, on the map screen you can push V to access character appearance FYI. It seems importing/exporting characters is no longer a thing so if you find an appearance you really like you can't just save it for the future.

I booted up multiplayer but there were no empty servers and quick match could not find a match despite over 600 people searching with the same filters as I was.

E: Oh, I will say one of my favorite new feature in the game is that your clothes are automatically dyed the appropriate color. I always just used heraldic mail in Warband because it was the only kind of armor that actually matched all the time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2020, 01:25:36 pm
Turns out smelting down old weapons is both a great way to learn new part types and make money. Assuming you can actually get your foes to drop weapons, they seem fairly rare. I spent about 100 on two pieces of hardwood, made one piece of charcoal, smelted down a falchion, and made almost 1000 back in sellable metal.

The conversation system for debating people, I like it. Different approaches and arguments, critical successes or failure. They come out a little strange at times though.

"Kidnapped" Woman: No! I love him and will spend the rest of my life with him!

Me: It's your duty and honor to serve the best wishes of your family.

"Kidnapped" Woman: Oh yes, you're right.

Seems like it takes a little while for quests to start percolating out. The first 10 days or so of game, there were not available anywhere, but now things are underway, I'm seeing 2 and 3 quests per location sometimes. I feel like the risk/reward ratio for these are way better than in Warband etc... Occasionally they're tough, but they almost always pay well. (Actually the Gang War quests seem to pay the worst so far and have the highest chance of failure since you have to do them in civilian clothes.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on March 31, 2020, 02:38:55 pm
I dunno, there is a lot of work still that needs to go in to the game. This is starting to look a little like "we need people to pay to help finish development." Like, there are no dialog options for practically anyone I've talked to. The shell of it is there, but it's like very little is hooked up in the background.

Supposedly once you hit higher ranks/join a faction you can actually ask people stuff like what they're doing, what the realm is doing, etc. I sorta get it, I mean why would a noble tell a random peasant what they're doing? I'm hoping this is true, and that once I get to higher clan rank (which is taking forever btw, best thing to do seems to be fighting looters, since tourneys give about the same renown+are fucking hard now that they run by modded Warband rules where high level troops get high level armor.) the game will open up more politics-wise, otherwise this definitely is only being released in this state because money issues.

I will say I appreciate the little unique boardgames for every kingdom (well, the empire share one game but they also share troops so it makes sense) even though I suck at them and haven't won a single game.

Performance is garbage, and the crash reporter doesn't work for me. Maybe it actually sends the report, but it gives me a huge error when I send submit. I can sort of deal with the bad performance, but it is a bit annoying to have to restart, especially once winter starts and the whole game starts bleeding out (no idea if this is a memory leak related to snow or just my play session ending about the same time I started winter year 1.)

Still enjoying it, but yeah, definitely got problems which I admit I was expecting. Pretty much Warband++ though and that's alright by me, playing as an Aserai with javelins is really satisfying. Dudes have melodramatic animations for getting hit in the neck and everything.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on March 31, 2020, 03:12:44 pm
I noticed that both javelins and throwing knives, Tier4 is has less damage than Tier3 while being pretty much identical in every other stat. Is this an oversight, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 31, 2020, 03:51:18 pm
I noticed that both javelins and throwing knives, Tier4 is has less damage than Tier3 while being pretty much identical in every other stat. Is this an oversight, or am I missing something?

probably an oversight, there are some areas with equipment that ive noticed they rushed a bit. for example, ive noticed that empire recruits start with nothing but clothing and iron spathas. not like, a cheapo spear and cheapo board shield, but an actual arming sword. so the troop trees could use a little work and i think that does carry over into equipment.

while i like the civilian/military equipment split for roleplaying/storytelling/realism, i do hope we can at least wear cloth level armor or like a padded vest or something. those gang battles can get brutal.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2020, 04:42:40 pm
Heads up, looks like updates are breaking save games. :\

If you get a message about a module mismatch, and you try to load the game and are successful, congrats, you can keep playing but your save may be out of synch with recent changes.

If your game crashes when you try to load it, gg rip start over. That's what a brief skim of available info gave me.

TFW Early Access.

Quote
Supposedly once you hit higher ranks/join a faction you can actually ask people stuff like what they're doing, what the realm is doing, etc.

Commoners don't have shit to say though either. *shrug* I talked to an Innkeeper and he has three distinct dialog options for learning stuff, and responds to each one with "I don't know anything about that."

(Also the Deserter Extortion quest seems like, completely horked. Some people say you can complete it by getting the quest, then _leaving_ the village, finding the deserters that spawned and running them down as per normal. I immediately failed the quest upon taking a few steps from the village. Once I did actually see the deserters spawn, and the instant they spawned, I failed the quest. Passing time in the village caused me to fail it as well.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on March 31, 2020, 05:01:21 pm
Quote
Supposedly once you hit higher ranks/join a faction you can actually ask people stuff like what they're doing, what the realm is doing, etc.

Commoners don't have shit to say though either. *shrug* I talked to an Innkeeper and he has three distinct dialog options for learning stuff, and responds to each one with "I don't know anything about that."

Oh yeah that, I honestly have no idea what those dialogue options are for. I know the "do you have any tasks for me" thing works when there's actual quests in the town, but uhh, there are UI elements that tell you that without having to load in/out of the tavern scene. You can also ask commoners to lead you places, but it's kind of pointless because of left alt. I have noticed some little flavor dialogue when you talk to rando commoners, so I guess that's an improvement over warband where I don't remember them having any sort of flavor dialogue.

Also, fuck me I didn't expect save game incompatibility for bug fixes. Good thing I've been too busy to put in more than a couple hours, or I'd be pretty sad. My save might still work though.

The crash reporter thing I mentioned has apparently been solved according to the patch notes for anyone else that had that happen: https://www.taleworlds.com/en/News/326
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2020, 05:37:33 pm
This patch also fixed whatever was going haywire with memory usage. Running a lot smoother, loads are much quicker now that my system isn't gasping for breath.

Whatever they did, it's still hogging all the memory but at least everything feels faster now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Salmeuk on March 31, 2020, 06:55:03 pm
I requested a refund through steam I was so disappointed. You would think over the course of 12 years the developers would come up with something new to add to the game. No, no, it's literally just warband with poor performance and slight gameplay balancing. Like finding a ten year old sandwich and taking a bite out of it.

Yes, it's early access, but the devs seem creatively bankrupt (ten years to mull over design decisions, reflect on player modifications, read community ideas, and this is what we get?), so I don't really expect much in the way of improvement during early access. I hope they prove me wrong and I look like an idiot.


Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on March 31, 2020, 08:19:46 pm
Surprising, but you need horses to upgrade troops into cavalry.
Also, having horses in the inventory has a visible effect on party speed.  (Foot soldiers getting to use horses.)

EDIT: ...  This random soldier I upgraded needed the more expensive 'war horse' that I won from a tourney.  Won't take the cheap normal horses. 
Granted I have a snowball's chance in hell of getting to 90 riding any time soon.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on March 31, 2020, 08:25:47 pm
Surprising, but you need horses to upgrade troops into cavalry.
Also, having horses in the inventory has a visible effect on party speed.  (Foot soldiers getting to use horses.)

i noticed this as well, what happens is if your horses aren't equipped, they are considered pack animals and increase your carry limit. i think if you are under a certain percentage of your max weight, you get a speed bonus
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on March 31, 2020, 08:30:52 pm
edit: redundant post
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on March 31, 2020, 08:48:43 pm
Certain horses seem to only be eligible as pack animals but from what I gather most horses I've seen can do both jobs. I remember one horse that only added 20 weight capacity but most of the ones I've tried add 100. Things like mules will not be ridden by infantry to increase map movement speed and only seem to increase weight limit.

Unfortunately the game has no indicators for what is a riding horse and what is a pack animal. I suppose you're supposed to intuit what is what, even though many items have visible modifiers to them such as all bows saying you can't use shields with them which should be obvious.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Kanil on March 31, 2020, 11:31:53 pm
I'm not sure about combat. It doesn't quite feel as fun as Warband, but it's possible that I'm simply just not used to it yet and it's fine?

What I am pretty sure about though is the leveling system -- I greatly dislike it. I'm currently level 8, which isn't exactly high level, but to get to level 9, I either need to fight about twenty 50v50 fights, which is a very large amount... or I can do a bunch of menial tasks that aren't actually enjoyable gameplay -- run trade routes back and forth, intentionally get into fights with looters to bribe them to release me, and smelt random crap at a forge.

Meanwhile none of my companions have yet to level up, and the one I set as party scout has gained a grand total of two skill points at it. Only a couple hundred more to go...

At least it's only day two of early access.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 01, 2020, 01:49:33 am
Unfortunately the game has no indicators for what is a riding horse and what is a pack animal. I suppose you're supposed to intuit what is what, even though many items have visible modifiers to them such as all bows saying you can't use shields with them which should be obvious.

From my limited testing, there seems to be a line at the bottom of the mouseover tooltip when pointing at a horse which says "Horse Type: Horse", "Horse Type: War Horse", or does not list horse type at all. It appears that the first two each add 20 weight allowance and 0.06 Party Speed, while those without any horse type each add 100 weight and no speed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 01, 2020, 02:22:29 am
Using the (presumably high quality) Full Blood horses feels (and looks) amazing. I haven't actually gotten around to getting such a one myself yet, but you can borrow one from your brother's inventory during the tutorial.


Surprising, but you need horses to upgrade troops into cavalry.

Greedy bastards... If they won't buy their own horses, what am I even paying them for? Booze and women?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: delphonso on April 01, 2020, 04:30:32 am
What happens when you get knocked out? Does combat finish like vanilla warband or does it continue like every mod ever made uses?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 01, 2020, 06:04:40 am
I can't speak for normal battles, but I did get knocked out during a quest.

This Town Trader was being harassed by the Town Crime Lord, so he hired me to help confront her. Well we show up, and the Crime Lord offers me 1000 denars to switch sides. I'm flat broke and don't particularly like either of these people, so I say sure, I'll switch sides. Unfortunately I was surrounded by 8 of the Trader's bodyguards at the time and also standing there in my town clothes. So they turn me into a human pincushion, and as I lay there bleeding to death they turn and have it out with the Crime Lord's thugs. Eventually the Crime Lord won, and my bloody self got to limp away with a fat fistfull of denars.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 01, 2020, 06:07:00 am
Yeah, when you go down the battle continue until your troops either win or lose for you and you can camera around and stuff.

...Not that this has ever happened to me, of course. I've certainly never been knocked out by filthy peasants throwing rocks at you. Not once!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 01, 2020, 08:15:43 am
Depends on the circumstances.  There are particular conditions where your knock-out is a loss.

Invading a bandit camp.  (Total loss)
Family Feud.  (The battle ends and you fail the quest.)  This one, the enemy spawns right on top of ya, so you've really no time to draw your weapon. They'll probably fix that later.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 01, 2020, 08:50:06 am
Tip on movement speed from !!SCIENCE!!:

Having at least as many horses as you do party members will give you that very nice mounted foot soldiers bonus--at least it wouldn't activate before that for me.

Maintaining a 2:1 horse to soldier ratio (think rotating mounts to keep them fresh) you get a similar increased in the mounted foot soldiers bonus.


EDIT: also,

Having prisoners slows you down no matter what, as does having a large herd of (non-horse) animals.

EDITEDIT: Apparently I am mistaken. It would appear that any other horse than the SUMPTER variety will increase movement speed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 10:18:02 am
I was wondering why I didn't seem to be getting shit out of having 7+ sumpters in my inventory. (Other than more cargo capacity, which is honestly a bigger deal in BL than it was in Warband and makes trading a lot easier and more enjoyable.)

So it appears the rules for the tourney are "You get to wear your own armor but have to use the weapons we give you."

Kind of annoying. I can barely scrape out a win if I manage to kill or ensure the deaths of the toughest opponents early on. But it's pretty annoying that most of the time the matches are populated by Tier 3 and 4 troops with great armor and high skill levels, and the occasional named hero with 120+ one handed skill so they hit like a freight train.

Also WTF is with shields. I swear there are times I can be blocking every attack, and then one will just seemingly go right through my shield like it's not there. I can block thrust attack after thrust attack and then one just "magically" ignores my shield and I take full damage. Shit is pretty frustrating when it costs you a hard fought arena win.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ozyton on April 01, 2020, 10:49:21 am
From my understanding shields have block directions similar to blocking with a weapon now. It's also possible that having a low shield/weapon skill makes blocking slower because I could have sworn I wasn't this bad at blocking before and yet it feels like a lot of the times my character refuses to block attacks despite me holding the block button.

Speaking of tournaments giving weapons out, who thought it'd be fun to watch archers duel? I don't know about you but if I want to watch a tournament and two guys pussyfoot around with bows and arrows I wouldn't be able to stay awake to see the victor. There was one occasion where there was a 4v4 and each side got an archer and the rest were melee. I knew that shooting into a melee was just asking to score a teamkill, so I focused on the archer, but all three of the enemy melee guys won and I had to take on three guys by myself. Thankfully I miraculously managed to beat all of them because one guy was pretty useless because he had a shield and spear. Also I'm playing on the setting where you and your team takes 2/3 damage which helped.

Speaking of spear and shield, remember me complaining that you couldn't swing them like a staff anymore despite them essentially being a staff with a point bit? I was up visiting Vlandian territory and decided to join the tournament there. The only two weapons you get are a piddly little axe or a spear and shield. Having to duel with spear and shield is quite a snore fest when you only have two attack directions. Spear and shield is meant to be a group fighting/support weapon, not a dueling weapon.

All those rants aside, so far I haven't really done much in the game so far besides tournaments and going back and forth between Dunglanys and the town just north of it Car Banseth. I do not know if trade prices are generated randomly with each savegame, but just running back and forth between those two relatively close towns buying pottery, wine, linen, etc. for extremely cheap in Car Banseth and then selling them to either Dunglanys or Marunath has gotten me up to 15,000 denars. One time I got 4 skill points in trading with a single transaction. It's not the most riveting gameplay but I want to make sure I have a ton of money before setting out properly.

Has anybody tried trade caravans yet? They cost 15k to set up but I don't know how long it'd take before it starts returning a profit. I haven't checked how much workshops are but I assume they similarly take a lot of money to set up and then give you money over time.

I should get about doing the 'main quest' and at the start of the game I foolishly ran past a dozen or so groups with blue exclamation marks on them. I eventually found one I could catch up to recently and he gave me a bit of backstory and progress towards the quest, but now I have no idea where I'd find the others.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 11:02:01 am
The main quest by and large seems to be "travel all of Calradia and speak to nobles about that thing." One noble in particular, is where I'm at now, as everyone keeps telling me to talk to him.

I started in Vlandia so I've been dealing with mostly imperial setups. Bow and Javelins, Spears, Sword and Shield for arenas.

Re: Bows. My god, they're so much easier to use with little skill and way, way more effective in BL than they ever were in Warband. I've never been good at them, but I can literally kill half the combatants myself in an Arena when they give me a bow, pretty much without even moving from my spawn point. Those things must be a terror in MP. I've even done some sick reflex shots that I don't even think I should have made, like hitting a strafing guy on horseback at a full gallop. Might make a bow guy to mess around with, it's that effective.

Re: Spears. I think they suck when you're on foot? Every time I've tried to duel with a spear, the AI just gets right up in your face so the weapon becomes practically useless. Even shield-bashing or kicking to open up space doesn't seem to do much, you can't really combo from those attacks with a spear or even marginally slow weapon. And yet dudes with spears seem to be able to wield them pretty effectively. So IDK.

Re: Prices. Not sure here. I was toting around a ton of wrought iron and stuff and finally found a good place to sell it. After selling quite a few units worth, I noticed the trade price dropped dramatically. Generally food seems cheaper in the countryside and more expensive in the cities, which makes sense because it's cheap at the site of production and more expensive at the site of consumption. Who knows. I assume cities have internal stockpiles of goods that they consume and are replenished by caravans (You get messages float up above the city about what caravans buy and sell when they visit cities), and that dictates the price. So maybe you've just found a situation where two nearby cities don't have a trade relationship around the goods you're peddling, so you're basically the sole mover of the economy on those items and can just farm it on repeat.

At 15k Denars, I think you've got quite the war chest to get started with. Troop pay may be daily but it seems pretty reasonable to me in terms of cost. For Tier 3 infantry I think you're paying about 1.5 denars a day per guy. That's pocket change even with a large party.

On the flip side....fucking Mercenary work is garbage. I don't know if what you get paid is based on renown, but one lord offered me an insulting 25 denars per enemy party wiped out. 25 fucking denars. You scavenge more than that PER LOOTER just hunting trash and riff-raff. Yeah yeah, taking down an actual military force yields its own scavenge and higher quality loot, but the risk involved in doing so makes the 25 denars a fucking joke.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 01, 2020, 11:30:34 am
1.5 denar?  You have some sort of skills lowering wages that drastically?

1denar for T1
2denar for T2
4denar for T3
8denar for T4
16denar for T5

And there is no extra tax for being cavalry.

And yea... I just recently realized I have somehow acquired 14 or so sumpter horses from who knows where.  They do not count toward movespeed.  (If I remember correctly they'll actually slow you down if you do not have enough people, with the herd negative.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 01, 2020, 11:40:13 am
I've had the same problem with Merc work. I'm not entirely sure why they even give you money if it's so shit. Not sure how it works either, its not very clear whether it counts battles your just part of or only battles you chase down yourself. Seems a bit idiotic to not reward you for participating as an auxiliary force in battles, y'know how mercenaries were actually used as far as I know?

I guess it's mainly for renown so you can become a lord, but it sucks that you can't actually continue doing it and remain profitable.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: amjh on April 01, 2020, 12:07:18 pm
It seems you can now block with the "wrong" stance, but the hitboxes make it difficult? Shields have a bigger hitbox, so it's easier to block with the wrong stance but not guaranteed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 01, 2020, 01:15:04 pm
It seems you can now block with the "wrong" stance, but the hitboxes make it difficult? Shields have a bigger hitbox, so it's easier to block with the wrong stance but not guaranteed.

With a shield you can block from the wrong direction, but there'll be a bigger chance you get hit, if you block left and knicked far, far right there's a good chance you'll get a scrape now (I think?)

Also yes, ranged in general is considerably deadlier than in Warband (which makes me concerned about multiplayer [which I haven't tried yet] because archers and throwers were frustrating as they were in vanilla warband)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 01, 2020, 02:10:08 pm
Horses in inventory increasing party speed was a thing in Warband. The game never really told you anything about it, but I noticed it made me faster once, so ever after I kept a few spares around.

And that brings us to my favorite thing about this game: Everything is so clear! All the odd little details that were a thing in Warband, but the game either never told you or only told you in very vague terms? Here there is a number in the UI somewhere that tells you that not only does X exists, but exactly how much X you are getting.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 03:52:43 pm
Quote
1.5 denar?  You have some sort of skills lowering wages that drastically?

I just estimated. Point being is, with a small party of Tier 2 and 3 troops, you're looking at well less than 100 denar a day. You can get more than that from wrecking 1 party of 5 to 7 looters. Point being is, unlike Warband with its weekly wages and needing to be ready for that, it feels much easier to pay for troops on a day to day basis. So 15k denar is enough for like, a massive party of high tier troops for a few weeks before it becomes a problem.

And yeah. I've always enjoyed playing a high-end merc company in Warband rather than pledging to a nation. I know that's where the meat of the game is, but I prefer the freedom to go where I want to and not get saddled with a nation's stupid wars, or finally becoming a lord and getting rewarded the absolute shittiest fiefdom possible.

I remember one time I joined up with a nation and they award me a town.....that was literally being pillaged by the enemy at that moment. I sort of have to imagine that's what real life was like. "Oh, new lord to the realm eh? Guess you'll need some holdings. Here's our finest village, all your's. Good luck, jackass! *snickers*"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 01, 2020, 04:37:04 pm
Re: Spears. I think they suck when you're on foot? Every time I've tried to duel with a spear, the AI just gets right up in your face so the weapon becomes practically useless. Even shield-bashing or kicking to open up space doesn't seem to do much, you can't really combo from those attacks with a spear or even marginally slow weapon. And yet dudes with spears seem to be able to wield them pretty effectively. So IDK.

From what I understand, spear infantry are extremely OP against any mounted opponents, but largely useless against other infantry.

Regarding horses, as I mentioned before you can look at the bottom line of the mouseover tooltip to see "Horse Type:" Which will be either Warhorse, Horse, or nothing. Warhorses are useful for upgrades, Warhorses and Horses both boost party speed by 0.06 and weight capacity by 20 just from being in inventory, and the nothings are pack horses who just boost weight capacity by 100.

Also, you can extend the information GUI in the lower right corner to see party speed and monitor it for specific changes as you test buying and selling horses and other goods from the market.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 01, 2020, 05:30:45 pm
looks like they posted another patch (e102). if it happens again tomorrow, it'll confirm what im thinking: they're getting crash reports and bug reports and putting them in a list to fix daily and send the fixes out as a quick patch. a good approach to early access but it'll break saves every so often.
i think after they patch most of the crashes and larger bugs then they'll focus on adding features back in. i haven't had any crashes but i did report ai bugs for town wanderers (they tend to clump up in random spots) and i did report the memory leak. not plugged yet but thats probably a larger fix.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 01, 2020, 06:44:22 pm
The tooltips tell you how much goods cost in relation to average price, but rather annoyingly this average price seems to vary between areas. So you might buy something 40% cheaper than average in one area and sell it 25% higher than average in another and actually be losing money because the average in one area is half the average in the other area.

It seems like trading in this game practically requires getting out a piece of paper or a notepad and keeping a ledger of prices for each good in each town if one expects to consistently make any real denars.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 06:53:58 pm
That's always pretty much been M&B merchantry...and to be fair I think it's what most people would consider fun about it. Personally I just try to keep a Denar figure in my head as what's the best price I've seen, and evaluate from there. I've seen Wrought Iron go for anywhere from 60d to 282d. So if I find a price between 150 and 200 and I need cash, sell. But that's just one good.

But yeah. Having your save game invalidated repeatedly throughout development is gonna get old in about 2 or 3 days with me. I'll go try a Battania archer class or something I guess. It's never an encouraging sign when this isn't already figured out by the time games hit EA. It's just one of those things people put off til the last minute.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 01, 2020, 07:29:53 pm
I picked this up, but I figure I'll wait until at least this weekend to give it a try. Let them get another patch or two out of the way.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 01, 2020, 07:39:34 pm
thats a smart plan, they seem to be focusing on gamebreaking crashes and bugs first. given a few patches, it should be much more stable
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 01, 2020, 09:10:29 pm
Yea, personally refraining myself from putting a lot of time into the game, cause of the inevitable save breaking patches.
Is early access after all.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 01, 2020, 09:12:35 pm
Definitely wait, right now there's no rollback feature so any save that gets screwed by patches is just screwed. This newest patch attempted to fix a couple of those saves, but I doubt all of them work. So far my save has survived the two patches, but who knows how long that'll last.

By the by you no longer lose everything if you lose a hideout mission as long as you have troops outside of the battle: "your troops dragged you out of the hideout." Still hope they change them to mini-sieges as people have suggested. Would make engineering useful in early game and give us some of that siege fun early on. That, and the hideout missions have always sucked and I don't want to have to ever do them again without major changes. Good thing fighting rando bandits is more rewarding/time efficient most of the time anyway.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 09:28:08 pm
You can always just set a Steam game to not auto-update. I've deleted all my saves simply because there's no telling what fixes you're not getting or what new bugs can get introduced when your save is out of synch with a downloaded update.

For Hideouts, I dunno, I don't have trouble with them. The only issues I've had is opting to duel at the end for the renown (if any.) What I have noticed though is the bandit boss usually gives you an above average gear drop. In my last game I'd say half of my decent equipment came from that. So I find them actually more worthwhile than hunting random mooks and stealing their filthy peasant clothes.

Started a Battania archer. It's somewhat less satisfying to shoot at guys than smash their faces in, but it's undeniably effective. I've taken out up to 12 looters solo so far, and can probably handle more with a few upgrades and a lot more practice.

-edit-

Although, for some reason...you can't shoot beyond like 30 degrees to your right. You can shoot like 120 degrees of your left side, but very little off your right. Which caused no end to hilarity where I was aiming at one guy and perfectly nailing the dude 10 feet to his left with every shot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 01, 2020, 09:55:20 pm
Horse Archer still OP eh?

Also, I stopped playing mercenary and started playing merchant-smith and well... it's nice to not have to worry about consistent income for once! I've refrained from joining a kingdom because things are actually way too fluid IMO, asides from the historical nods for a quick Imperial collapse (which hasn't happened in my games), the last thing I want to happen is have one intense flurry of wars and then nada for several in-game years--Warband felt a lot better at just having the FEEL of conflict without making things change too much.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 01, 2020, 10:21:29 pm
Although, for some reason...you can't shoot beyond like 30 degrees to your right. You can shoot like 120 degrees of your left side, but very little off your right. Which caused no end to hilarity where I was aiming at one guy and perfectly nailing the dude 10 feet to his left with every shot.

Was this on foot or on horseback? Because if it's on horseback it's working as intended. When you're pulling with the right hand, you can turn more to the left than to the right due to how the bow is held. So if you can't move your feet, like being on a horse, your firing arc is limited. If it's on foot then something is weird in the game.

I guess if you ever get the option to use your left hand instead of the right, the firing arcs would be reversed. Assuming the devs ever want to redo the animations and so on.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 01, 2020, 10:40:36 pm
Some people here have clearly never played Warband, lol That's cool, it means the game is drawing in at least a little new blood and not just old fans.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: delphonso on April 01, 2020, 10:45:35 pm
Seems visuals is where they spent almost all their time. I'll probably pick it up on sale in the future, but I haven't seen anything that mods hadn't already added. I hope they make bank, really, but I can miss this until it gets smoothed a bit and then modders have at it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2020, 10:59:40 pm
Some people here have clearly never played Warband, lol That's cool, it means the game is drawing in at least a little new blood and not just old fans.

I played a ton of warband. I've literally just never bothered with horse archery for more than 5 minutes because the penalties imposed on it were so harsh starting out, I didn't have the patience to mess with it.

In Bannerlord, pfffffttt. Sure I'll still miss easy shots, but I hit what I'm aiming at most of the time now, versus like maybe 30% of the time all the other previous games. They've just really toned down the penalties on archery in general and bows actually are fun to use out of the box, IMO.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 01, 2020, 11:14:17 pm
One thing that's irking me a bit is that there still seems to be certain sweet spots for party size. 20-30 is a good size for dealing with bandits of most types, 70+ for nobles... but 30-60 of mixed-skill troops never quite feels like enough for the big fish while being too big for the small fish.

In Warband I felt mods usually did a good job at filling that gap. Any suggestions on that for Bannerlord yet?

Edit: On mercenary pay, the paltry sum also seems to be a daily income. Only pays for a tiny number of troops, though...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dehimos on April 02, 2020, 03:20:45 am
Wait, there are roll back to others updates: Steam -> Properties -> Beta -> Select.

But each update fixes a lot of bugs.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 02, 2020, 06:04:42 am
I think I finally got the hang of trading.

The red/green numbers are completely worthless, as they only indicate the price relative to the average in the local region, which varies significantly. The trade rumors are much more informative however. A single trade rumor may often be outdated, so I never invest all my money in one product with the expectation of selling it at the rumored price. But when I see several rumors in the same general price range, I can be reasonably certain of finding a place to sell at that general price point sooner or later.
So each time I enter a town, I check all of my trade goods and sell anything that displays a lot of 'buy cheaper elsewhere' rumors, then I check all of the town's goods and purchase anything with a lot of 'sell higher elsewhere' rumors.

Overnight, I went from roughly 2,000 denars to 20,000 denars, while also significantly upgrading my equipment and bolstering my herd of horses.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cyroth on April 02, 2020, 07:22:06 am
Another good thing to know is not to sell the cheap weapons you get from looters and other bandits.
Instead of selling the pickaxes, sickles and other low tier stuff for 20 denars a piece take them apart and sell the iron you get from it.
In a city with low stock on iron you can get up to 200 denars (probably even more, but 200 is the highest I've seen), even if you subtract the cost of the charcoal thats between 100 and 130 denars you get more for the materials then for the equipment.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 02, 2020, 08:28:14 am
On party size:

If you're not planning on acting as a mercenary anything above ~25 is probably going to start being a burden (unless you own an enterprise or two to essentially cover their daily wages). In my latest character, I didn't even hire a companion until I bought an enterprise. With no passive income -100 denars a day is quite prohibitive (which is what I was running as a Empire merc) even if you're raiding like crazy.

Now that I do have a stable base, I might start to look expanding my company again--imo it's all about speed on the campaign map rn--I don't take any sort of bandit quests, I want them to keep spawning so I can get weapons to melt down and make it to the cheapest hardwood selling village ASAP.

TBH, I'm thinking of investing in more companions now though so I can spend less time refining and smelting.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 02, 2020, 09:48:00 am
100 Denars is like one small group of looters. Between the scavenge from beating and selling the loot, I've been able to support a party of 30+ pretty easily. Then you add some basic trade on top of that and make some profit. So far I think it's way easier to support a small to average party in BL than in Warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 02, 2020, 10:14:58 am
My biggest gripe is that the practice fights in the arena no longer provide skill-ups. In warband I would always run practice fights until my character could use weapons at least somewhat of effectively, but if that's out then practice fights are worthless to me now. I can get that prize of 250 gold for a lot less effort elsewhere.

I also haven't seen a training field or any way to spar with troops yet, meaning I'm stuck sending fresh recruits directly into combat. I always hated doing that, between their poor skills and lack of armor it's a quick way to lose resources.

At least they didn't bring that god-awful wound system back from viking conquest. Hated that with such a fiery passion that I refused to play any mod that used it. Good riddance.

On the positive side of things, I've discovered a love for tablac. Easy to learn, hard to master, but fun all round.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 02, 2020, 10:53:29 am
Salvaging looter drops is lucrative early game.  Just move to different towns once you saturate the markets/roaming bands.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 02, 2020, 11:01:49 am
Quote
I also haven't seen a training field or any way to spar with troops yet, meaning I'm stuck sending fresh recruits directly into combat. I always hated doing that, between their poor skills and lack of armor it's a quick way to lose resources.

Just put them in their own battle group, and have them start behind the main line, and charge in after your experienced troops. They'll make a bit less XP but their attrition rate will be much, much lower. Those dudes in the first ranks always take the biggest losses, so just put the weaker ones in a second (perhaps flanking) group.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: amjh on April 02, 2020, 11:12:01 am
It looks like they changed the "advance" command so they keep advancing, you can now use that instead of charge if you want them to stay in formation.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 02, 2020, 12:05:59 pm
It looks like they changed the "advance" command so they keep advancing, you can now use that instead of charge if you want them to stay in formation.

that sounds legit, send a slow wave of infantry in formation in while you command archers and cavalry from the flanks, lots of potential there. also, i cant remember if it was mods or default behavior in warband, but they followed you in formation and they do so here as well. so you can order your infantry behind you and march slowly into the enemy in formation.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cyroth on April 02, 2020, 12:42:13 pm
Currently grinding tactics by attacking bandits and murdering them in auto-battles, and by Armoks beard are the results nonsensical.

Lost 3 imperial Legionnaires in a battle against 16 looters. How the flying carp did that happen?
Between my 3 mounted companions, 10 cavalry soldiers and 20 archers there is no chance that any of the infantry even managed to engage any of the looters in melee, let alone get into a situation where a fapping looter would be able to kill a Legionnaire.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 02, 2020, 12:54:40 pm
Speaking of formations, big AI-led battles are more interesting now--they make much better use of formations than before. Seems like anyhow. Also you sometimes are able to take command of a battlegroup if you're part of an army.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 02, 2020, 02:01:05 pm
Currently grinding tactics by attacking bandits and murdering them in auto-battles, and by Armoks beard are the results nonsensical.

Lost 3 imperial Legionnaires in a battle against 16 looters. How the flying carp did that happen?
Between my 3 mounted companions, 10 cavalry soldiers and 20 archers there is no chance that any of the infantry even managed to engage any of the looters in melee, let alone get into a situation where a fapping looter would be able to kill a Legionnaire.

I feel like almost every auto-battle system in games like this runs in to this problem. Especially when there's just passive modifiers to give you better results on auto-battle. Because you're lower level on it, you're naturally going to get some penalties to it.

How are people finding battles of 60+ people in terms of performance? My machine isn't the hottest thing, but I'd say it's 7/10 for a gaming PC. And my first battle with about 100 guys chugged pretty hard at the start. (I think it was like 100 soldiers versus like 4 looters.) Not exactly encouraging when there's a real fight with 200+ guys. All the videos I've seen up to this point, things looked pretty smooth. But my own experience is that around 30+ units and there's a little chugging at the start and it only gets worse from there.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Lapoleon on April 02, 2020, 02:13:15 pm
So far I'm having a blast. Haven't run into more serious bugs than some placeholder text.

Currently I have just joined the Southern Empire and just won a siege against a castle with my 70 large army
 I fought of multiple armies whilst singing, because the enemy kept running away after charging y infantry line and then getting countercharged by my much larger cavalry force. It seemed somewhat unbalanced to win 2:1 fights with a 50:1 casualty rating.

The siege was a different affair, I managed to win on my third try by abusing the AI. I climbed to the top rungs of the ladder on a siege tower and first started sniping the enemy troops whilst parking my own at the bottom of the wall. After my ammo ran out I kept popping up, luring the enemy to the edge of the siege tower and starting hitting them in the shins. Half of the time they also started climbing down, making them extremely vulnerable to me hitting them with a sword in the back. I killed about 50 enemies before charging in my own guys. I won the battle although I managed to get myself stuck on a rooftop while my guys mopped up (and got stuck in random corners, hitting the walls with their swords).

I've also bought a wood workshop, which sometimes earns me 200 gp, sometimes 12000 and now it seems to have stabilized at 2000 gp per day.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 02, 2020, 04:28:55 pm
I also haven't seen a training field or any way to spar with troops yet, meaning I'm stuck sending fresh recruits directly into combat. I always hated doing that, between their poor skills and lack of armor it's a quick way to lose resources.

Not the best solution, but one of the early talents/perks in the leadership tree gives xp to low-ranked troops every night. (Like in the prior games.)

On the positive side of things, I've discovered a love for tablac. Easy to learn, hard to master, but fun all round.

That's the Imperial one, right? I can do pretty decently on the defense side, but can't capture a king to save my life. It's a nice diversion, and nice that one can just play it without gambling.

Edit: Just did a bandit base raid (AKA let's play Russian roulette with javelins/arrows and see how many of my troops make it out alive), and survived just on my lonesome. Bandit boss comes up and asks for the duel as usual, despite it just being me. What a nice fellow; good thing I always keep a blunt weapon on hand.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 02, 2020, 06:04:01 pm
That's the Imperial one, right? I can do pretty decently on the defense side, but can't capture a king to save my life. It's a nice diversion, and nice that one can just play it without gambling.
When it comes to tablac, I'm not so good at attacking, but defending comes easily enough that I can make consistent money off it. Both sides are good for playing for fun, so it's nice to know I have something stable to do in this game while the devs air out the funk of forty thousand years.

Quote
Edit: Just did a bandit base raid (AKA let's play Russian roulette with javelins/arrows and see how many of my troops make it out alive), and survived just on my lonesome. Bandit boss comes up and asks for the duel as usual, despite it just being me. What a nice fellow; good thing I always keep a blunt weapon on hand.

So you're telling me that duel in the tutorial wasn't a story beat, and that every two-bit bandit king is going to wait for their men to die before sauntering up like I owe them anything? Forget the blunt weapon, where did I leave Ramun's pistol?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 02, 2020, 06:21:45 pm
Yea every bandit hideout has a really crazy bandit leader who wants to duel.

EDIT: hopped on MP for 0.5 seconds... I fucking hate it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on April 02, 2020, 08:13:55 pm
I like that "I'm not going to duel you dickhead" is an option on when sacking a hideout. I really wish there was an "I'm not going to stand toe to toe with you at very low health while my vigorous and well equipped men block me in before announcing I won't duel you" option.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 02, 2020, 08:46:27 pm
For those talking about in-battle AI, try using the F6 command during your next battle. It assigns the group (or all groups, if you have all selected) to be handled by 'your sergeant' (i.e. the AI). Also shows in the lower-left all the commands being issued to them - it's a pretty active AI, and seems to do a decent job the few times I've done it.

When I'm playing on foot it seems a decent choice to assign your cavalry to it, for example - will e.g. harass or protect your flanks while you worry about more immediate things.

On the board games, each culture supposedly has their own. Only done the Imperial and Battanian ones so far -- not a fan of (perhaps just because I'm not any good at) the Battanian one.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 03, 2020, 09:49:24 am
Suddenly the game has become unplayable for me... some sort of horrendous memory leak has left it lagging and stuttering as soon as I boot it up. Welp.... back to Mordhau I guess.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 03, 2020, 10:02:23 am
Been thinking of Mordhau. In terms of multiplayer medieval combat, it seems to blow Bannerlord out of the water. Granted Bannerlord is less irreverent and there's certainly a market for that. But BL MP looks wooden and stodgy compared to Mordhau as a MP game.

Been enjoying my romp around Battania. With how close all the cities and villages are, it seems like an ideal place to trade and work your way up. I too have found some crazy trade relationships (making 500 denars for half a day's ride until one city runs out of stock.)

Also seems like maybe there's some general truths about nations as it relates to the goods they produce or want? Battania seems really high in raw materials and food, but really low in finished goods. 11 Denars for Cheese where it's selling for 100 denars + down south.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 03, 2020, 10:12:58 am
Yea different nation's starting regions have different resource availability, there's even a pretty good steam guide on it (one of the trading ones).

And yea... Bannerlord's MP is trash... in my opinion, it's a big step DOWN from warband--I hate the class system and limited options and I hate matchmaking in general.

In terms of trading mostly I just make charcoal and melt down weapons, 2000-3000 denar profits on good days. It was day ~200 before my game pretty much stopped working, and I already had two workshops and just became a Southern Empire vassal.

EDIT: also do yourselves a favor and pick up the Full XP Tournaments mod.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 03, 2020, 01:33:30 pm
Suddenly the game has become unplayable for me... some sort of horrendous memory leak has left it lagging and stuttering as soon as I boot it up. Welp.... back to Mordhau I guess.

Today's patch is reportedly fixing this sort of issue for most players.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2020, 01:58:58 pm
My throwing axes now make Invalid type damage
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on April 03, 2020, 02:17:00 pm
Judging by the reactions so far, I'm glad that I'm waiting for this to come out of early access.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2020, 02:22:33 pm
Meh, early access is developmental, after all. I got both Warband and the original M&B before they were finished too
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 03, 2020, 02:49:04 pm
Same here. The experiences between all of them have been remarkably similar.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 03, 2020, 03:32:40 pm
Suddenly the game has become unplayable for me... some sort of horrendous memory leak has left it lagging and stuttering as soon as I boot it up. Welp.... back to Mordhau I guess.

Today's patch is reportedly fixing this sort of issue for most players.

Still lagging horribly, maybe it's something on my end.

But yea, EA and all that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Akura on April 03, 2020, 03:54:38 pm
I can't tell if this (https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/ft9di5/mfw_lose_virginity_and_wife_explodes/) reddit thread is hilarious or terrifying.

Spoiler: in short (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 03, 2020, 04:03:52 pm
That's CKII levels of meme right there. I love it.

ALSO, I found out that my game was exploding because apparently Bannerlord stopped recognizing my GPU after a certain period of time for some reason.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Brotato on April 03, 2020, 07:49:36 pm
One thing that's irking me a bit is that there still seems to be certain sweet spots for party size. 20-30 is a good size for dealing with bandits of most types, 70+ for nobles... but 30-60 of mixed-skill troops never quite feels like enough for the big fish while being too big for the small fish.

In Warband I felt mods usually did a good job at filling that gap. Any suggestions on that for Bannerlord yet?

Edit: On mercenary pay, the paltry sum also seems to be a daily income. Only pays for a tiny number of troops, though...

The solution is to fight minor faction nobles. They fit the gap nicely and can fill out your coffers insanely quickly by ransoming their noble and high tier troops. Plus they give much better armor drops compared to looters and bandits.

In other news I've got 5 caravans, 3 workshops, and 153k denars in the bank. I've got making money down pat but I'm struggling to actually get any fiefs. Seems impossible to get rewarded a fief even if I took it because of the new voting system. I just can't gather enough influence on my own to vote anything in. Seems like the taker of the fief should get a large bonus to the vote at the very least.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 03, 2020, 08:10:43 pm
I'll confess to having a hard time identifying who is who (tbh I haven't tried much because I've been focusing on the early game w/o getting involved in anyone's wars.) I assume any minor faction noble belongs to one of the nations, based on their banners, so attacking one of them is the same as acting the nation, no?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 03, 2020, 08:23:08 pm
So... Mountain Bandits. The Battanian variety.

They seem a tad bit tough....

3 of them managed to kill 6 and injure 2 versus a 114 army + my band of 16 in autobattle.
The 114 army is just some random noble I happened to be near.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Brotato on April 03, 2020, 08:54:44 pm
I'll confess to having a hard time identifying who is who (tbh I haven't tried much because I've been focusing on the early game w/o getting involved in anyone's wars.) I assume any minor faction noble belongs to one of the nations, based on their banners, so attacking one of them is the same as acting the nation, no?

Incorrect. There are clans which are not aligned with any of the major factions. These guys run around the map with their warband fighting against major factions and recruiting soldiers just like the player. They may have names like "Vaols of the Ember" or "Istus Karakhergait" or "Pippin of the Woodsfolk" and they will only mention a clan and a culture alignment when you mouse over them.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 03, 2020, 10:05:07 pm
So... Mountain Bandits. The Battanian variety.

They seem a tad bit tough....

3 of them managed to kill 6 and injure 2 versus a 114 army + my band of 16 in autobattle.
The 114 army is just some random noble I happened to be near.

Mountain Bandits tend to have good bows and the skills to use them, which can make an absolute mess against unshielded infantry in tight formations. Best to either slowly advance with a shield wall, or charge with a spread formation.

Autobattle however is completely ridiculous. I've seen looters end with better than 2 kills each when facing 10:1 odds against tier 3+ units.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 03, 2020, 10:10:28 pm
I'll confess to having a hard time identifying who is who (tbh I haven't tried much because I've been focusing on the early game w/o getting involved in anyone's wars.) I assume any minor faction noble belongs to one of the nations, based on their banners, so attacking one of them is the same as acting the nation, no?

Incorrect. There are clans which are not aligned with any of the major factions. These guys run around the map with their warband fighting against major factions and recruiting soldiers just like the player. They may have names like "Vaols of the Ember" or "Istus Karakhergait" or "Pippin of the Woodsfolk" and they will only mention a clan and a culture alignment when you mouse over them.

Ah, thanks. Feels a bit odd to just declare war on them out of the blue since they're not hostile by default, but I'll look into that.

Mountain Bandits tend to have good bows and the skills to use them, which can make an absolute mess against unshielded infantry in tight formations. Best to either slowly advance with a shield wall, or charge with a spread formation.

Autobattle however is completely ridiculous. I've seen looters end with better than 2 kills each when facing 10:1 odds against tier 3+ units.

I thought mountain bandits had javelins, not bows? Highwaymen (higher rank type) have warhorses and javelins. Javelins are no joke, though. It seems like any troop with a ranged weapon (except for maybe rocks) can fare pretty well in autobattle. I somehow managed to get an army that consistently never lost men autobattling looters (just wounds), but haven't accomplished that against any other bandit type. And it's a crapshoot as to who I lose - just as likely to lost a top-tier troop as a low-tier one, feels like.

All that said, I'm enjoying it. Being able to have my army operate on their own in battle and just joining in is good fun.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 04, 2020, 02:52:58 am
now that the memory leak has been patched and i dont have to worry about save corruption, ive gotten super addicted. I added a few mods already:

singleplayer rebalance mod (from the taleworlds forum, theres a few floating around now, but this is the og) which adds better rewards to tournaments, random bonuses when you level up skills and a way for leaders to gain xp from keeping morale up daily.

hideout party limit removed 50: makes it so you can bring up to 50 people into bandit hideouts. as a leader build, i felt this was a natural conclusion until they allow me to chose who comes with or increases the number on their own. flooding the enemy camps is kinda cheap but also kinda fun.

improved smithing: reduces/gets rid of the stamina system for crafting at a smithy, increases "research" chance when smithing to unlock new weapon parts and bonus chances to quality of crafted weapons depending on you skills.

ive been doing bandit raids and building up a force of empire troops while looking for companions to build my clan. i intend to level smithing on the side and forge custom ceremonial blades for all of them. meanwhile ive been doing a little trading on the side where i can and ive built my chest to 14k. once i find a city to make my homebase im going to look into making a caravan.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 04, 2020, 06:07:08 am
Two good things to report: 1. Passive shielding is back! And I don't mean just that you can block from the wrong direction if your shield is in the way. Now shields on your back protect you from arrows again and as long as you just keep a shield on your arm it will keep any peasant's thrown stone that hits it instead of you from damaging you (and it look really neat when they bounce of it ;) )

2. This is not a confirmation, and it might have been because I ran the second one over with my horse or something. But I just killed two looters with one stroke of my two-handed axe.

Also, Falxes and two-handed axes are ridiculously OP. At least against looters and bandits and tournamenteers (which are like 98% of all I've battled so far). Of course, falxes are awesome, so that's alright with me. I've never felt as much as an avatar of death literally reaping my harvest of life's-wheat.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 04, 2020, 06:21:15 am
Do companions make effective use of short/fast weapons? Or is it better just to kit them out in the biggest longest blades possible?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on April 04, 2020, 07:00:13 am
Companions don't make good use of anything in my experience, and they level up abysmally slowly.  I haven't seen any use for them, their skills are pretty low to start out and don't get much better.

I went with a Khuzait character.  Khuzait horse archers kind of ruin the AI behavior and make any fights with infantry easy.  They break off into big blobs to chase your archers who they can never catch, turn when they see the line troops, and get chewed up one blob at a time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2020, 08:44:20 am
99.9% of companions seem to get base 60 in the combat stats, and 60 in one or two other stats like Riding, Roguery, Scouting.....

So not super high, and slow to level, but higher than the player starts with. You'll know an intended combat monster when they have 120 single hand skill.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 04, 2020, 11:12:04 am
99.9% of companions seem to get base 60 in the combat stats, and 60 in one or two other stats like Riding, Roguery, Scouting.....

So not super high, and slow to level, but higher than the player starts with. You'll know an intended combat monster when they have 120 single hand skill.

Guess I've gotten lucky then? I have: Urgil the Lucky (90 in all melee, 75 bow, 60 other); Ariada the Wanderer (150 in one/two, 170 polearm, 100+ in ranged & riding, 90 athletics); Litka the Shieldmaiden (150 one, 200 two!, 140 polearm, 100 bow/throw/riding/athletics, 80 crossbow); and a healer with 60s.

No idea if companion names/backgrounds are set v. random, but that serves as some illustrative. Note that the better fighters there have no good noncombat skills, though - Urgil's got tactics and the healer's got healing (of course), but the others have nada.

They can level really slowly, but I just noticed -- leveling is based on gaining skill points, not amorphous XP. Chances are they won't be using noncombat skills much, especially if they have no skill to begin with, but at least you can give them some SP by letting them do a bunch of refining/smelting?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2020, 11:41:01 am
And what's the deal with their recruitment cost? Two "The Healer" NPCs, same med skill, same all skills I think. One wants 2k denar for their services, the other wants 800. I've seen this multiple times now.

I get the sense there's supposed to be more to companions than what we have now. At least I hope so. They're so generic beyond the back stories (even met one whose backstory text literally says "Generic backstory.") If they're going through the effort of randomly generating names and features, the might as well go the extra mile and randomize their stats in some meaningful way too.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 04, 2020, 11:44:25 am
ideout party limit removed 50: makes it so you can bring up to 50 people into bandit hideouts. as a leader build, i felt this was a natural conclusion until they allow me to chose who comes with or increases the number on their own. flooding the enemy camps is kinda cheap but also kinda fun.

actually, scratch that, this as a necessity against some of the more established bandit camps. especially fucking forest bandits, for real, archery is op. it doesn't help that most recruit level infantry do not start with shields, even crappy ones made from scrap wood, meaning i lose a ton per forest bandit camp. if you plan on raiding bandits in their camp grab this mod
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 04, 2020, 12:14:48 pm
Are there companions that hate each other, or can you just pick up whoever? I always hated that Warband effectively had two fixed parties.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 04, 2020, 12:21:42 pm
Are there companions that hate each other, or can you just pick up whoever? I always hated that Warband effectively had two fixed parties.

Not sure, I've only ever had a companion confront me when I paid some bandits to piss off so I didn't have to fight them.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2020, 12:29:38 pm
ideout party limit removed 50: makes it so you can bring up to 50 people into bandit hideouts. as a leader build, i felt this was a natural conclusion until they allow me to chose who comes with or increases the number on their own. flooding the enemy camps is kinda cheap but also kinda fun.

actually, scratch that, this as a necessity against some of the more established bandit camps. especially fucking forest bandits, for real, archery is op. it doesn't help that most recruit level infantry do not start with shields, even crappy ones made from scrap wood, meaning i lose a ton per forest bandit camp. if you plan on raiding bandits in their camp grab this mod

Yeah. Mountain Bandits can be nasty, but Forest Bandits are seriously nasty in the early game, because of the lack of shields and honestly, good armor.

Might try out the hideout limit mod. Haven't tried a Forest Bandit one yet, but the only trouble I've generally had with the Mountain Bandit ones is the duel due to my own suckiness. I can generally just give my guys the charge order and they will clean everything up mostly on their own.

Now Sea Raider bandit camps.....whooo.....watching 2 Sea Raiders cut down half your guys before dying is pretty demoralizing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 04, 2020, 12:34:23 pm
whats funny is i think the mod was intended gameplay behavior because when you get to the end and the boss appears, your crew of 50 will make an enclosed circle around you and the boss w his backup. so when you deny him a duel, he gets mobbed instantly. quite satisfying to watch.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 04, 2020, 02:14:58 pm
There is an autoblock mod, an autoblock mod! Oh happy day, an autoblock mod!

And it works pretty well too. Just like Warband, you hold the block button and it shifts your weapon/shield as needed to block directional strikes.

I still suck at melee, but now I suck a whole lot less.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 04, 2020, 02:29:03 pm
Git gud. Jk,

but I stepped back into Multiplayer now that I could actually play and spent a few minutes on an NA server and...

the "modernization" is both obvious and terrible. I feel like half the fun of Warband's MP was selecting equipment! Sure there was some classes, but it pretty much boiled down do you want to be vaguely ranged, vaguely melee, or vaguely cav? Now it's just... ugh it reminds of FPS classes and I hate it. Everyone looks the same in game and the lack of variety is frustrating.

the combat itself is still pretty good, obviously--again the lack of variety deadens things a bit methinks. Seems a bit laggier than Warband, but I'll give that a pass for now.

I'll need to play a few more matches before I can really give it a thumbs up or down. Although, honestly Mordhau is way better--heck I even considered just booting up Warband to compare.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 04, 2020, 02:35:07 pm
honestly for online melee combat, mordhau is leagues better. but for teamplay, bannerlords siege mode is better. i already saw teammates form a shield wall to defend the guys pushing a ram to the gates. i already saw combat lines and spear guys poking over their teammates shield wall. in mordhau, however, i saw a shirtless memepeasant throw firebombs into an objective his teammates have already taken from an enemy group and the peasant racked up 5 teamkills. ive also seen the rare time a group of engis would work together to fortify a point with walls and spikes.

which ones better? different tastes for different times, methinks.

edit: i actually think the class thing was to promote teamplay; archers can't take super good armor and melee weapons, so they need melee guys up front and melee people cant get more than throwing spears/axes, so they need archer coverfire. clever but yeah, restricting.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 04, 2020, 02:40:49 pm
Good point, also I'm gonna point out that Bannerlord somehow has a much lower TTK than Mordhau--I'm mid match literally one-shotting people left and right.

EDIT: Also there's no siege server in my timezone for some reason :)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 04, 2020, 03:48:56 pm
I don't understand why multiplayer is a separate program from singleplayer, I lament the ability to have a character name different from my profile name, and the fact that you can no longer go completely naked except for the killiest two-hander your faction has as a terrible design choice.

Also smithing stamina is a horrible mechanic and I'll praise any mod that removes it. That is all.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 04, 2020, 04:00:28 pm
I don't understand why multiplayer is a separate program from singleplayer, I lament the ability to have a character name seperate from my profile name, and the fact that you can no longer go completely naked except for the killiest two-hander your faction has as a terrible design choice.

Also smithing stamina is a horrible mechanic and I'll praise any mod that removes it. That is all.

i like the seperation, the two sides of the same game require different mindsets. i cant speak to the character customization except for the fact it's fostered more teamwork than ive seen in a while, which brings me great joy. i love seeing a shield wall come about on its own without anyone shouting for everyone to join them.

and yeah, smithing stamina sucks. its already a costly endeavor to level up. so using that mod i posted earlier, which sets crafting stamina costs to 0, i spammed making charcoal using the improved ratio recipe cuz you will need a lot of charcoal to smelt all those leftover axes and swords youve looted. its working fine and you can even get some profit out of it if you bought the hardwood cheaply and offloaded the resulting iron or even charcoal to the right market.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2020, 05:07:06 pm
It'd be fine to me if you just got about twice as much. All I want to do is make enough fuel to breakdown the crap in my inventory, but after 4 weapons or so, yer done son. Not being able to centralize those skill ups annoys me. I get why they did it, it's just too aggressive.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 04, 2020, 05:17:42 pm
Given the timescales in the game it kind of makes sense - simulating the time it takes to smith, I guess - but doing it that way is odd.

Splitting the smelting and refining up between companions helps a bit, though you'll obviously skill up slower that way.

(Click the portrait in the lower left to switch characters)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 04, 2020, 05:34:49 pm
Also smithing stamina is a horrible mechanic and I'll praise any mod that removes it. That is all.

There are multiple mods that remove it and/or allow you to adjust it in various ways that can result in it being removed.

I'm running three mods right now. A mod that enables automatic block direction, a mod that adds an automatic trade button to cities (it isn't amazing, manual trading is better), and "Bannerlord Tweaks" a mod that makes a lot of little things better, including smithing stamina (I edited the config to turn it all the way off though).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 04, 2020, 05:51:03 pm
Where are you finding mods?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 04, 2020, 07:44:11 pm
Given the timescales in the game it kind of makes sense - simulating the time it takes to smith, I guess - but doing it that way is odd.
Splitting the smelting and refining up between companions helps a bit, though you'll obviously skill up slower that way.
(Click the portrait in the lower left to switch characters)

My only objection is that Stamina does not regenerate while traveling. You literally have to sit inside a town and let time pass to regain smithing stamina.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 04, 2020, 08:30:24 pm
Where are you finding mods?

On Nexus (https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/) of course. They have mods for everything.

My only objection is that Stamina does not regenerate while traveling. You literally have to sit inside a town and let time pass to regain smithing stamina.

If smithing stamina regenerated while traveling I would be fine with it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 04, 2020, 09:30:48 pm
My only objection is that Stamina does not regenerate while traveling. You literally have to sit inside a town and let time pass to regain smithing stamina.

That's why I'm guessing it's meant to be 'time spent forging' - makes you sit in town to simulate the time you spend using their forge. Of course, in practice it's more like some sort of replicatatron that spits things out then needs to recharge (while you hand-crank or something, I don't know)... hence why it's odd like that.

From an 'actually playing the game' perspective, I agree it's not fun as-is.

Where are you finding mods?

Nexus is where I've gone. There's probably better places, though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2020, 09:59:18 pm
Small feature I just found. Maybe it was in Warband or earlier, I dunno.

Double tapping forward while mounted makes your mount jump forward into a light trot. Great if you need to get going in a hurry. Repeatedly tapping forwards gets your mount up to a gallop quicker than just holding it down. Likewise, double tapping backwards makes your horse brake hard. It won't bring them to a complete stop, but again, is faster than holding back, and can help you turn in sharper arc, faster, from a gallop.

Has really made a difference for my horse archer gameplay.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 04, 2020, 10:01:49 pm
I would be more okay with smithing stamina if the time went by automatically, preferably without even leaving the menu.

Where are you finding mods?

On Nexus (https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/) of course. They have mods for everything.

Nexus is where I've gone. There's probably better places, though.

Thanks! I assumed it was too early to be a nexus but I see I was wrong ;)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 04, 2020, 10:20:13 pm
Thanks! I assumed it was too early to be a nexus but I see I was wrong ;)

Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity/impatience. Certain communities I monitor for purely educational purposes have had interest in nude mods for bannerlord since at least a day before release. Long story short, some madlad worked with a beta build until they cajoled the underwear off the female model, a mad dash to add nipples and lady bits ensued, but the whole thing ended in the surprisingly restrained consensus of "wait for a more stable version".
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 04, 2020, 10:31:35 pm
There is a "no underwear" mod on the Nexus right now. All my characters wear sensible clothing, so I didn't install it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 04, 2020, 11:22:23 pm
Mods are mostly on Nexus, although you can find a bunch of the old ambitious Warband modders setting up their pages on ModDB.

EDIT: Woo! Finally reach 1k net denars per day w/ various investments--AFTER paying my 400 denar daily salary. Planning some kind of revolt against the Southern Empire, which is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to steamrolling, but stopped at the edges of the calradian heartland. Vlandia, Sturgia, and Khuzaits are doing pretty good--Aserai and Battanians got gutted, and the Northern Empire was... vassalized after declaring war on us. The Western Empire got sweeped like day one--their Emperor still running around partying tho.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2020, 01:05:58 am
Thanks! I assumed it was too early to be a nexus but I see I was wrong ;)

Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity/impatience. Certain communities I monitor for purely educational purposes have had interest in nude mods for bannerlord since at least a day before release. Long story short, some madlad worked with a beta build until they cajoled the underwear off the female model, a mad dash to add nipples and lady bits ensued, but the whole thing ended in the surprisingly restrained consensus of "wait for a more stable version".

Whatever the final version is, I hope it's called Beaverlord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 05, 2020, 01:10:45 am
Bonerlord
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on April 05, 2020, 01:16:43 am
Weirdly, I think the female models are naked under their clothes to begin with.  When you first start it up it takes a while to render, and sometimes models will start without their clothes for a second.  Men are weird looking ken dolls, but I'm 90% sure I saw nipples, in vanilla.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2020, 08:17:01 am
No nipples on the women. I had a naked lady on the screen for several seconds because of said slow loading, so I saw

and lo

nipplen't
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on April 05, 2020, 09:41:15 am
Mods are mostly on Nexus, although you can find a bunch of the old ambitious Warband modders setting up their pages on ModDB.

EDIT: Woo! Finally reach 1k net denars per day w/ various investments--AFTER paying my 400 denar daily salary. Planning some kind of revolt against the Southern Empire, which is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to steamrolling, but stopped at the edges of the calradian heartland. Vlandia, Sturgia, and Khuzaits are doing pretty good--Aserai and Battanians got gutted, and the Northern Empire was... vassalized after declaring war on us. The Western Empire got sweeped lke day one--their Emperor still running around partying tho.
Might be some balancing issues on the Western Empire. I decided I was going to do some banditry in their territories and hide in neighboring countries but very shortly after I started I lost track of them and realized they'd been wiped out shockingly quickly.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 05, 2020, 10:00:15 am
I've started 3 games (all before the anti-steamroll patch mind you) and they all got wiped by either the Battanians or Vlandians pretty much immediately.

In my current game Southern Empire has about half the map, but is starting to tank due to various factors--I intend to help it along with a well-placed rebellion :)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on April 05, 2020, 12:05:38 pm
Smithing sucks. It has near 0 potential to be profitable especially considering how much time you need to dedicate to waiting in town trying to get your stamina back. The only reason you to have any interest in smithing is 1) smelting trash weapons and selling the raw materials for more money or 2) you want a few cool custom weapons. If it's 1) then you have everything you need right out of the gate and the actual progression of the skill is meaningless to you. If it's 2) you need one or two weapons and that's the only thing you want out of the skill. Now you obviously can't make the only weapons you'll ever need right out of the gate, it would be wildly unbalanced so there's the difficulty system and the perks that let you get bonuses. The only logical way to advance the skill is to use the skill which means grinding, waiting, grinding, waiting again and again and again in mind-numbing drudgery until you can make the one or two weapons you actually want to make. I don't think it works and I don't think you can make it work. That is to say nothing of the part-unlock system, I cheated and used an autoclicker to smelt thousands upon thousands of swords from an infinite stack, there are still missing parts I just gave up.

I think they should drop smithing as skill and tie it to an NPC with upgradable structure or something for gold based progression. Unlock weapon parts by bringing in a weapon and telling your smith to reverse engineer it so the parts associated with that weapon are unlocked and you don't need to do it a billion times, just once for each weapon. Smelting and forging can work the same basic way they do now but let this NPC do the work so it's still a time consuming process player is free to not watch paint dry while it's going on. Let the structure provide some kind of bonus as long as it's stocked and now it has a purpose even after the player gets their two weapons.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 05, 2020, 01:14:16 pm
cutting out the stamina mechanic fixes a part of that grind and i feel is a necessity for using smithing at all. and i agree that the "research mechanic" is bad, it should either go much quicker, with entire tiers of stuff being unlocked at certain levels, or it should just be all unlocked from the start and all you need is materials.

for that 1st point tho, if you level up your smithing skill, you can turn that trash iron that sells for maybe 80 a unit to what is basically Damascus steel worth 1100 a unit, with your only inputs being trash weapons and charcoal (or hardwood to make into charcoal). with maybe 2~4k worth of hardwood, i can turn those trash weapons that maybe sell for 100 a weapon, into 20~ or so units of super steel. def worth.

as for the 2nd point, i am just having fun trying different blade types. its kinda useful to make good swords to use for street fights (currently you can't take territory from gangsters for yourself, but you can raid it to get cash), though, i wish this also included armor crafting (i can see people making this a mod in the far future tho)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 05, 2020, 02:48:38 pm
Smithing sucks...you need one or two weapons and that's the only thing you want out of the skill.

Making both melee and ranged weapons for both inside and outside of town and for yourself and all of your companions is more than just one or two weapons.

The higher skill levels say they unlock higher quality metals and a chance for rare weapon crafting, which combined with part size customization certainly makes it sound like there is potential to get much better stuff than what you can buy in markets or loot in combat. Though I've yet to see any of this firsthand, of course.

Skill gains in general are far too slow right now, and I feel like a large part of the Smithing frustrations are a byproduct of this. It may be prudent to wait for that inevitable global progression rebalance before calling out Smithing specifically as problematic.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 05, 2020, 03:11:18 pm
I'd say the problem with smithing right now is that it just isn't all that much fun, whereas most of the rest of the stuff is pretty fun as is.

It does have some good potential, though. So I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 05, 2020, 03:16:24 pm
Smithing IS quite profitable. (also p easy to level up to be frank, mine is close to 125 rn)

Even refining cheap hardwood into charcoal and selling it where it's in demand can make 2000-3000 denars a cycle, which can be can become as quick as a single day--and if you really mass-produced I'm sure you could get to crazy numbers. The trick is to understand the raw materials are worth considerably more than the finished items themselves--especially if you melt down old weapons instead of buying ore.

Don't sell swords and axes--sell steel, iron, and charcoal.

As far as stamina goes (which can be a pain, ESPECIALLY when you're starting out, check out one of the mods that either A.) increased it to 400 or B.) removes it all together.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2020, 03:16:42 pm
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on April 05, 2020, 03:20:25 pm
Smithing IS quite profitable. (also p easy to level up to be frank, mine is close to 125 rn)

Even refining cheap hardwood into charcoal and selling it where it's in demand can make 2000-3000 denars a cycle, which can be can become as quick as a single day--and if you really mass-produced I'm sure you could get to crazy numbers. The trick is to understand the raw materials are worth considerably more than the finished items themselves--especially if you melt down old weapons instead of buying ore.

Don't sell swords and axes--sell steel, iron, and charcoal.

As far as stamina goes (which can be a pain, ESPECIALLY when you're starting out, check out one of the mods that either A.) increased it to 400 or B.) removes it all together.

I'd even say this is a problem. More effort for things should translate into more value. Or at the very least be based on supply and demand. Are there higher grade weapons that sell for more than their materials? Does selling a ton of charcoal reduce the price nationally?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2020, 04:23:48 pm
I'm starting to think that that the best bet for trading is to know what stuff generally goes for, and just buy it in bulk when it hits super cheap levels, and tote it around until you can make the most money on it. I've been burned quite badly by trade rumors before, and for how much time I spend reading and checking stuff, it's just easier to know like, if Hide is 30d, buy it. If Leather is less than 80d, buy it. If Silver Ore is less than 90d, buy it.

Also there is any way to change who escorts you during your walkabouts? Sorting people by their order on the party list no longer really seems to matter the way it did in Warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Broseph Stalin on April 05, 2020, 05:08:02 pm
Smelting and refining is a money maker probably enough to deserve a nerf, I financed my first four caravans off of it. It's also super boring and turning a widget into a more expensive widget is definitely not worth building a skill around.

Creating your own weapons is great, I have a one handed sword bigger than a two hander and it is blinged the fuck out. There's not a viable way to pace it though, are you going to have smithing be a shockingly short progression in comparison with other skills or is it going to be a miserable grindfest of refining until you're more able to do the actual cool thing you're in it for?

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 05, 2020, 05:41:01 pm
that's a problem plenty game solved already, you make it grindy and you put trainers that can give you shortcut for money or quest reward so that you can level it up via alternative systems one can enjoy more than the grind and sit within the existing game rules
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 05, 2020, 05:48:42 pm
I've been burned quite badly by trade rumors before

I find trade rumors extremely reliable, as long as I don't put too much stock in any single rumor. I look for patterns among multiple rumors, and buy/sell based on those patterns.
And yeah, after a while I do also develop and sense of what things are worth, such that I can buy/sell things without looking at the rumors.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 05, 2020, 05:55:58 pm
Smithing IS quite profitable. (also p easy to level up to be frank, mine is close to 125 rn)

Even refining cheap hardwood into charcoal and selling it where it's in demand can make 2000-3000 denars a cycle, which can be can become as quick as a single day--and if you really mass-produced I'm sure you could get to crazy numbers. The trick is to understand the raw materials are worth considerably more than the finished items themselves--especially if you melt down old weapons instead of buying ore.

Don't sell swords and axes--sell steel, iron, and charcoal.

As far as stamina goes (which can be a pain, ESPECIALLY when you're starting out, check out one of the mods that either A.) increased it to 400 or B.) removes it all together.

I'd even say this is a problem. More effort for things should translate into more value. Or at the very least be based on supply and demand. Are there higher grade weapons that sell for more than their materials? Does selling a ton of charcoal reduce the price nationally?

1.) Yes, you can smith some pretty dope stuff, but its pretty end game. (EDIT: to my knowledge. I never really have tried to sell weapons because of how generous the raw/intermediate materials profit margins are) The problem is more when you break down a weapon you get 100% of the materials you put into it so there's a bit of e=/=mc^2 going on that throws things out of whack (getting 3 hardwood from a wooden mallet is just impossible). Also the materials to make those weapons are so rare anyways that because you're the only one really crafting that stuff, the materials become more rare than the weapon (if that makes sense)--it's like selling an item that performs moderately better than usual versus selling the materials to create any item you want that performs moderately better than usual.

2.) Supply and Demand is a big deal. Prices fluctuate and the more you sell the further the price drops, sometimes precipitously in a single trade. (I've seen charcoal start out over a hundred and drop to around fifty denars over the course of selling 60-70 units).

3.)I'm am unsure of how global the supply and demand is, caravans move goods around to exploit known profit margins, but I can't speak to how responsive it is... though I have noticed that the overall price of hardwood has gone up since I started buying in bulk from multiple spots.

EDIT:
Mount & Blade 2: Capitalist Overlords.

Speaking of which, check out the "entrepeneur" mod, it essentially allows you to invest in villages similarly to enterprises--you buy fields/acres of production at a large up-front cost for weekly income--seems fairly balanced and honestly is a good money sink and/or alternative route to a large enough income to maintain armies capable of sustained warfare.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2020, 07:13:02 pm
I've seen trade rumors be wrong by more than 50% value sometimes in a short period of time. RNG or the movement of the market in that time frame, or both? Who knows.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 05, 2020, 08:23:42 pm
Trade rumors are the prices that show up when you hover over the item in the store right?

It only shows you prices of places you've recently visited.  It can be very very wrong.
Like when you dump the price and it still thinks the price is still high when you move to the next city over wrong.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: sambojin on April 05, 2020, 09:05:36 pm
If you end up anything then trading a lot of the better ones, do the various factions end up using slightly better weapons in a week or two's time? As in, are they actually an input for the AI's gear? Or do they just *poof* out of existence when sold, having fulfilled their purpose as a gold source?

Would it be too hard to tell, considering the randomness of troops engaged in fights, troop types, levelling etc anyway?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 05, 2020, 10:13:55 pm
I've seen trade rumors be wrong by more than 50% value sometimes in a short period of time. RNG or the movement of the market in that time frame, or both? Who knows.

Just like you, there are NPC's roaming around the map buying and selling goods.
Trade rumors show the price something was worth the last time you were in that village/town. Or if you talk to a townsperson and they tell you a price rumor, the tooltip will show you the price at the time you talked to that townsperson.
So if, for example, you enter a town and see they are paying 30 denars for grapes, so you go out to a village and buy a ton of grapes at 8 denars, while you are doing that an NPC may visit that town and sell a bunch of grapes, so when you get back the price is now 10 denars. And since your soldiers nibbled on the grapes during the trip you end up making no profit at all...

This is why you look for multiple trade rumors on a single item. NPC traders may spoil one deal, but they won't spoil all of them.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2020, 10:33:16 pm
I feel like a big change between Warband and Bannerlord is that trading is kinda more important to getting off the ground in the early game than it used to be. Gear drops are fewer and by and large shitty, so they don't represent a sustainable income. More they along with scavenge defray the upkeep cost as long as you're consistently fighting. I feel like you had to want to be a trader in Warband, it wasn't something you could half-ass very well. Here because horses are so fundamental to cargo space in general, it's easier to play the trading game at your desired level of engagement.

Was there a way to sign up with a lord as a footsoldier that anyone's seen?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 05, 2020, 11:35:18 pm
If you end up anything then trading a lot of the better ones, do the various factions end up using slightly better weapons in a week or two's time? As in, are they actually an input for the AI's gear? Or do they just *poof* out of existence when sold, having fulfilled their purpose as a gold source?

Would it be too hard to tell, considering the randomness of troops engaged in fights, troop types, levelling etc anyway?

Well average soldiers are defined by a generic loadout that is coupled with their class. As far as lords... I doubt they upgrade dynamically--most start with top-tier armor anyways, and it seems like they always wear their faction's sunday best into battle.

EDIT: I am also unsure how liquid weapons are (in a meta sense)... I have seen a crafted sword I sold in one city pop up in another, and I'm not sure if they're important for recruitment or settlement garrisons so... idk, more science must be done.

I feel like a big change between Warband and Bannerlord is that trading is kinda more important to getting off the ground in the early game than it used to be. Gear drops are fewer and by and large shitty, so they don't represent a sustainable income. More they along with scavenge defray the upkeep cost as long as you're consistently fighting. I feel like you had to want to be a trader in Warband, it wasn't something you could half-ass very well. Here because horses are so fundamental to cargo space in general, it's easier to play the trading game at your desired level of engagement.

Was there a way to sign up with a lord as a footsoldier that anyone's seen?

Trading is definitely more central to the game... so much so I am actually having trouble transferring back from Mr Capitalist to Medieval Big Bos... I am the Crassus of Mercenaries/Minor Lords :(

So unlike some very good mods in Warband, there isn't an official sign up to be a footsoldier thing, but it's fairly on-base to approach any lord and ask to be a mercenary for a kingdom and just join various armies. There's even a monthly-renewable mercenary contract mod available already (be warned that otherwise, leaving kingdoms will net you a nasty -20 relations bonus even though you're just a hired sword).

EDIT: Also if anyone's interested I've got a little mod list for ya peeps:
*they're all extremely light-weight mods and don't really add or remove anything from vanilla

Tournament XP: Just like says, it allows you to level your skills in tournament play, very useful!

Bannerlord Tweaks: A bunch of random fixes, but best of all is the 400 smithing stamina, which strikes a good balance between having a limit and actually being able to smith quickly enough not to go crazy!

Don't Smelt Locked Weapons: Really helpful to preserve your legendary/crafted weapons from accidental smelting when you're turning your captured iron into sweet sweet denars.

War Attrition: Basically makes factions regularly declare peace after several sieges or high-value ransoms or bloody manpower losses, still tons of war but slows things down and helps to prevent snowballing.

Entrepeneur: Very lightweight investment mod that allows you to become a rural landlord, purchasing acreage in villages for small weekly profits ranging from 20-100+ denars per acre, useful for A.) wartime income for the international businesslord, and B.) diversifying assets/allow non-kingdom players to support larger armies.

Always Keep Horses and Food: Just a mod that locks horses and food in the trade menu so you don't accidently unload them all for some reason. Safety first!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Inarius on April 06, 2020, 03:04:09 am
I've tried the game.
I'm surprised at how much GPU (and RAM) this game uses, compared to...rendering.
I mean, i have played many other games, and never never before i have had to play in low or lowest to have a really fluid rendering.

And it's not because the game is so realistic. Clearly.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Lapoleon on April 06, 2020, 03:29:54 am
I've tried the game.
I'm surprised at how much GPU (and RAM) this game uses, compared to...rendering.
I mean, i have played many other games, and never never before i have had to play in low or lowest to have a really fluid rendering.

And it's not because the game is so realistic. Clearly.

There was a bug that sometimes popped up that switched the graphics card used to your basic card on your motherboard. It might be worth to check to see if the game is actually using the dedicated GPU.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Inarius on April 06, 2020, 03:53:28 am
I tried yesterday
I'll wait one week or two before trying again
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 06, 2020, 09:36:03 am
Two quick fixes:

1.) yes make sure the your graphics card didn't get switched to native in the Bannerlord graphics menu

2.) turn audio channels down to 128 in audio settings and then go into your PC's audio settings and disable enhancements on whatever speaker you're using--this apparently takes up a huge amount of memory too.

Both helped tremendously.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 06, 2020, 10:55:04 am
What are everybody's favorite money making methods?

I have been shipping cheap wood around (combined with making charcoal at a 3->2 ratio depending on prices) and I built a wood shop in a city that had particularly low wood prices (but it isn't paying out much at all).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 11:32:28 am
Most of my biggest money has come from smelted metal sales to Orystia.

Although that's maybe because they're getting their shit pushed in by both Brittania and the North Empire. They're down to like 3 cities, so maybe they're really hurting for raw materials. They've consistently had high buy prices for metals for like the last 2 in game seasons.

But basically I do a run in to Brittania, buying up whatever is cheap, then go down south to Orystia/Sagot. By the time I reach Orystia I've got boatloads of weapons. I smelt them down, make between 5 and 6k, then head back north. I make more money if they're also in the market for Iron Ore since I can get that super cheap from Seonian as well. By the time I make the full circuit, a day's rest usually restores my party of 5's blacksmithing stamina so I can smelt down the 8 to 12 weapons I've collected. Doing this I've managed to push myself over 20k while comfortably supporting a warband of about 70 guys.

By and large it's my best money because there's almost no upfront investment. Compared to sinking 1-3k denars in goods then hoping I make that money back by the time I get wherever I'm going, it's just a few hundred in hardwood to smelt it all down. So even if the prices aren't great, it's still pure profit mostly and requires less running around checking prices and gambling that they'll stay steady with other goods. Of course, the metal market there could get oversaturated.....or collapse entirely if they get taken over. But it would seem to be that struggling nations make the best customers since their whole supply chain is on the rocks. And if the price isn't right....I just sit on it as I travel around. When Crude Iron is at 50+, Wrought is at 80+ and Iron is at 120+, I sell.

After another round or two of this, once I have enough of a cash base I'll start doing caravans.

Also what made a big difference for me is just always buying a couple horses during my stops when the price is low enough. Between that and a few camels I looted, I've got like 3500 carrying capacity and a movement speed of 5.7. It's weird to me still to have an inventory of 30+ horses and to keep buying more, but that's the name of the game in BL.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 06, 2020, 12:45:22 pm
Newest update has added back in XP for practice fights/tournaments
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2020, 02:31:50 pm
Oh my god, multiplayer is awesome!

I discovered my niche, to be a giant hammer swinging barbarian old woman with heavy makeup! Everybody underestimates her shrill battlecries.

Too bad there's so few maps.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 06, 2020, 03:45:02 pm
im ehhhh about the skirmish and team deathmatch modes.

but siege is fucking awesome. chaos, random moments of amazing teamwork and honorable duels being interrupted by random guys on horses. its super fun, i cant wait for more maps and more stable servers.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 07:08:19 pm
Have they not released 1.0.6? Or do you have to opt in now? Don't have a client update in Steam.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 06, 2020, 07:13:26 pm
Have they not released 1.0.6? Or do you have to opt in now? Don't have a client update in Steam.

Restart steam or check your steam downloads I guess. I didn't opt in and my version is 1.0.6 now. I did force update it through the steam downloads thing, since I think  it was scheduled for like 7 pm CST or something.

Also apparently someone saw a 1.1.0 in steamdb or something so an actual content patch might be coming soon.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 07:18:20 pm
Hrm, nope. Restart didn't find the download, it's not in my downloads section at all. Opted in to 1.0.6 then out of all betas, still nothing. Launching the game doesn't force it to update (it always does with every other game), and my in game versions still all say 1.0.5. I'm not the only one having the issue apparently, but I've yet to see a solution. How did you force a download?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 06, 2020, 07:26:56 pm
you might be able to see it in the betas tab, you might be able to force it that way.

i just checked steamdb and i saw the 1.1.0. i wouldn't be surprised if its only a major bugfix patch but maybe with a minor feature enabled, like gang territories or something. id be happy to be proven wrong tho.

i modded my game up;

Developer's console (not to cheat, actually, i have it loaded up just in case i need to force graphics options)
Entrepreneur (love alternate money generating money sinks)
Improved smithing (self explanatory)
Merc fix (cuz being a mercenary for 1 faction until the end of time dosen't sound fun)
War attrition (this, combined with Bannerlord tweaks, seems to stop major snowballing. ive only had factions trade a few major cities within 2 years of my last save)
Bannerlord tweaks (this does a lot of stuff but also increases militia for most settlements, helping to stop snowballing)
Armor does something (makes armor better, cuz i dont feel arrows should easily penetrate hard armors and peasants throwing rocks shouldn't laser through chainmail)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 07:28:42 pm
As I said I already tried that. Just did it again and was told "successfully opted in to the e1.0.6 beta." Still nothing. Wonder if they took the patch down. But there are people who said 6 hours ago they hadn't gotten it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 06, 2020, 07:32:41 pm
As I said I already tried that. Just did it again and was told "successfully opted in to the e1.0.6 beta." Still nothing. Wonder if they took the patch down. But there are people who said 6 hours ago they hadn't gotten it.

yeah sorry about that, im working from home and its eating into sleep time. hmm. you might be able to force it with a verify files check from the properties tab. you might also need to purge your download cache, this apparently also forces updates.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 07:37:06 pm
I'll give those a shot, thanks. Verifying integrity on 50 gigs should only take like 40 minutes.....

I dunno, I had other stuff in my download queue (which oddly like 5 games queued updates for like, weeks in the future.....) and those all processed correctly.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 07:54:11 pm
Nope, nothing. Hrmmmmm.......I really don't feel like redownloading the game just for this patch.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2020, 08:28:18 pm
After reading lots of Steam comments, I suspect they took the update down. They inadvertently broke some stuff with this patch.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Brotato on April 06, 2020, 11:59:45 pm
Does anyone know how to declare war after starting a faction? I've gone and made myself a kingdom but I can't seem to fight anyone except looters now. The button in the kingdom's section doesn't work and you can't start a fight by walking up to someone now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 07, 2020, 12:45:05 am
Does anyone know how to declare war after starting a faction? I've gone and made myself a kingdom but I can't seem to fight anyone except looters now. The button in the kingdom's section doesn't work and you can't start a fight by walking up to someone now.

As I understand it some of the Kingdom level diplomacy is a bit wonky ATM, to declare war you just have to go take hostile action against a lord or fief.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 07, 2020, 10:29:32 am
Double post to inform y'all that there's a revolt mod out now--could be v interessante, though I think it just gives the fief back to the original faction rather than creating a new one--but that's a personal taste thing.

Also apparently there's a large population of degenerates on the Steam forums who think macroing is okay...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 07, 2020, 10:30:43 am
It's a MP game. People gonna macro.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 07, 2020, 08:15:35 pm
Looks like I'm up and running again. Strangely, the info on the game loading screen doesn't seem to say what version the game is on.....but what version your saves are on. Cause they all said 1.0.5 when I started up today. After loading my save, then saving it and quitting and coming back, now everything says 1.0.7.

Addendum to that, what people are now saying is: when they update, load your game. If it loads and you are able to save it again, all the update stuff gets applied to your game. If for some reason your game crashes on loading, then you'll probably need to restart. If I had to hazard a guess, depending on how far into the game you were and what stuff was active vis-a-vis what was patched, you will or won't be boned per update. Like I haven't joined a nation or started a kingdom of my own yet in any game, and I think the people whose games crash out after a patch are much further along than I am. Heard a lot of buggy stuff about the main quest and completing it.
 
So yeah. Maybe not necessary to restart after every patch, but you certainly gotta check your game after each one.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 08, 2020, 08:47:41 am
Well, I caved and bought it.  The smithing stuff is what eventually sold it.  I used to play a mod for Warband with smithing all the time, although the official version is a bit better.  I hope they can eventually put in armor making.  I'll just reiterate that using smithing to break stuff up is profitable, to the point that buying weapons and them breaking them can be a net profit (seems to usually be the case).  I haven't tested whether more expensive items, made with more expensive stuff, leads to more profit when broken up, or loss.

I also found out that, from what I can tell, prioritizing smithing in character creation is the wrong move, as it levels up early on quite fast and its smithing endurance that really limits the player.  Also companions can and should smith, especially on the reaction and breaking down of weapons where skill level is unimportant (although perks can be important).  I don't think there is any profit to selling one's weapons, its rather a way to get better weapons than might be otherwise available/affordable.

I'm not too worried about the inevitable restarts, Mount & Blade is one of those games where each start is faster because the player knows more about what they're doing.  I wouldn't recommend the raider starting strategy, where the player quickly builds up a cavalry force and uses it to raid a border village for a huge initial cash influx, on the first few playthroughs.  I'm sure its perfectly viable, even in Bannerlord, after playing for a while, although its always a high-risk, high-reward strategy: either you get the villages contents and a large sum of cash after selling, or you end up in chains with nothing.  Maybe permadeathed in this game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2020, 09:08:27 am
How much have people been doing with the main story line? I've been kind of focusing on it, mostly so I can have done it and pretty much expect to just sort of ignore it in the future. But I'll have to see how much of an effect it has and how worthwhile it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 08, 2020, 09:34:44 am
How much have people been doing with the main story line? I've been kind of focusing on it, mostly so I can have done it and pretty much expect to just sort of ignore it in the future. But I'll have to see how much of an effect it has and how worthwhile it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as I know, you have gone through all of what is in the main storyline as of right now. Maybe something happens when you succeed at expanding/diminishing the empire but from what I've read there isn't much more. Nothing has happened for me about 100 days after giving the banner to aserai and becoming a vassal for instance.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't mind the main story, although I do hope at some point we can skip the intro and delete our brother/siblings from the game. I'd rather not have every character have the same family situation.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 08, 2020, 09:47:59 am
People report a lot of the stuff involving the main storyline is buggy.

I think I'm on day 70 or w/e....Western Empire has been almost totally taken over by the Northern and Eastern Empires, and Battania. Battania has gone on a rampage, taking tons of territory. It went from attacking the Western Empire to attacking the Vlandians....and the Vlandians responded by taking Dunglays and then pretty much everything Battania had taken from the Western Empire. The territories are absolutely swimming in Looters and Forest Bandits because the FBs set up like one hideout per major city and then just start pumping out groups of FBs anywhere from 4 to 32.

Shit's wild in the realm, but people are right: the wars are endless and there is rarely a declaration of peace so the same nation just keeps steamrolling weaker nations until they've swallowed up the map.

And yeah, smithing and smelting....at Renown Level 2, you can have up to 5 companions. It takes less than a full day of rest to restore all smithing stamina. If you're not worried about focusing your skill ups, you can turn over like 10 weapons and refine it all in to iron for about 1000 denars (price of Hardwood withstanding), and then turn around and sell that for anywhere from 5k to 8k depending on the town. (The town that happens to give me the best price for metal goods also happens to the epicenter of the Battanian/Western Empire/Vlandian war.) It's so profitable it basically undercuts the value of regular non-caravan trading, as it weighs far, far less than other goods (weight honestly stops mattering after a certain point once you have enough horses and a couple perks for weight) and on average has a much higher and steadier sell price. Granted you can't move the volume you can with other goods, but since you're rarely buying metal goods and instead getting them from smelting, you don't have to deal with price differentials where the price per unit increases the more you buy. It's a pretty goddamn boring way to make money, tbh. I think part of Bannerlord's trading being kinda meh is that every good is available almost everywhere. So really what you're dealing with is quantities and prices rather than actual scarcity.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 08, 2020, 11:09:14 am
yeah trading could use an extra oomph to it. rn the only rarity trading you can do is high end metals, which i dont think are sold anywhere. at least i havent seen any. i suppose a fix would be to make certain goods only available in places, like only empire territories could produce olives and desert areas could produce fine glass or something.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 08, 2020, 11:11:46 am
I didn't even know you could use companions for smithing
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 08, 2020, 11:18:42 am
FWIW Smelting and Refining don't seem like exceptionally good Smithing XP after like, 13 skill. So using all your companions to smelt and refine lets you turn over a lot of material.

(You can click on the portrait in the Smithy to change who is doing the action.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 08, 2020, 12:57:04 pm
Just in case this stumps anyone else, I thought I'd post this here.

Some troops need horses in order to upgrade into cavalry.  What that means, and the game does a poor job of explaining, is that you need horses with the type "horse" at the bottom of their stat description.  The cheaper horses, such as the Sumpter Horse, has nothing in that area, and thus does not work.  The Mayfair Horse is probably the cheapest that will qualify, and they're pretty common in my game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 08, 2020, 01:05:34 pm
I haven't seen anything called a Mayfair horse, where are they from?

Personally I've relied on Battanian Ponies. You can get them for as cheap as 100-120 gold in Battannia, and both the two villages producing them are very close to each other (on each side of the river running north from Lake Battannia) so it's easy to do a sweep.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 08, 2020, 01:41:44 pm
Yeah, there's that village on the north side of Battania that I do all my horse shopping at. The horse seller NPC also seems to really like herd escort missions to Seonian....which is like 1/4 of a day's ride away. Easiest 500 denars you're going to make, and you can start recruiting higher level troops from him much quicker than the NPCs that, like, want you to do quests that will hurt your rep with someone else somewhere in Battania.

Honestly, I think the game would be more interesting if village resources were semi-randomized. As it is now there's villages you really lean on for their goods....and villages you generally ignore.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 08, 2020, 02:15:32 pm
patched up to e1.0.8 now. they plugged another mem leak and improved mercenary behavior and gameplay, rich nations with more enemies will value your skills more and pay you more. i wonder if this effects the random npc minor nobles too? also to go with this, they fixed the leaving a faction bug that caused your relations to tank.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 08, 2020, 02:44:05 pm
Quote from: Patch note
Fixed a bug that caused prisoners to smile. :)

:(
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 08, 2020, 02:49:03 pm
Also I got my smithing to 175 on pretty much refining alone... but it's also day 800+ sooo...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 08, 2020, 06:10:46 pm
What have people's returns on caravans looked like? At the cost of a companion, some troops, 15k up front and ~500 profit a day that you have to wait 7 days for.....that seems like a pretty shit return. Although passive income is nice, once you have multiples going.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: amjh on April 08, 2020, 06:45:00 pm
The r/bannerlord reddit has been saying caravans get very profitable after a while, but that could change at any time with the balance getting adjusted.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 08, 2020, 07:23:54 pm
There are a lot of factors, but I've seen my own caravans peak at 4000 denars a day in profit. It's inconsistent, but it's very passive and they don't even get captured in war that often.

On the flip side I've found companion-led parties to be a huge strain on my cashflow, but hey that's the cost of aristocracy lol.

Also, Caravans are less... peace dependent than workshops? Workshops in cities held by an enemy get confiscated (at least I don't get MINE back, grumble grumble), but caravans operate around the clock 365 days a year.


I'm currently pretty heavily tied to Vlandia atm, (trying to curb the Imperial menace) but it would be interesting to achieve 100% mercenary businesslord meta.

Also I get cavalry wherever I can... there's a good string of 3 horse-producing villages in Northeast Battania, and also the Imperial Heartland. Otherwise... steppe and desert horses kind of ring the East and South sides of the map.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 09, 2020, 07:00:59 am
I was playing as a woman and married, but after waiting in the same town as my spouse, I noticed my character started to slow down, swinging weapons and running just slightly slower than before.

...Am I gregnant?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 09, 2020, 07:14:13 am
Only if you're carrying a greg

Do assigned companions (quests or caravans or anything else there might be) still count against the party companion limit?

Also, another question: Do no nobles give quests any more? I've stopped checking because I haven't found anyone who do. But sometimes when you're at war with someone you can ask them "I hear you have a problem I can solve maybe?" and then they'll say "no duh you can't help me we're at war bruh". So which is it?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 09, 2020, 07:28:33 am
So, for lair assaults only a random number of your party gets included (which is the same as in Warband and Native, so no blaming Bannerlord for this one).
Which leads to me a strategy: Fire all the useless Peasants that you get for free from looters before launching the assault.

Which also leads me to another strategy: You never actually have to recruit anyone (although it might be better if you do).  Your solo character can usually take on 6-8 looters.  Eventually, one of those looter parties will have like 10 peasants captive, which you can recruit after you defeat them for free, which are slightly better than most factions tier one recruits.  Then you can take on looter parties comparable in size to your self.  It tends to snowball unfortunately so that you eventually have a full party of mostly peasants, although they will slowly upgrade to Watchmen, then Mercenaries.  It gets boring just fighting looters, as you'll usually get trashed if you try to take on anything else with your mostly peasant army.  Probably useful as a merc or vassal though, even though I have zero experience with that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Inarius on April 09, 2020, 07:41:50 am
Do your character die from old age eventually ? I remember they were about to put that in the game but i haven't played it enough for now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 09, 2020, 07:43:18 am
I read the dev blog from about a year ago, its apparently a feature, but dunno if it works.  Apparently, the player won't just keel over, but rather there will be some signs first.  Tried to research the issue, but it seems nobody really knows, which upsets me that nobody can actually figure out something that seems so fundamentally easy to figure out.  The real problem is that the game apparently ends if the main quest isn't completed, and there may be a issue that the main quest hasn't been fully implemented yet, so its impossible to complete and thus game over from that before old age could kick in.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sindain on April 09, 2020, 08:49:14 am
There's a perk that decreases your chance of dying from terminal illness, so I think player death is probably something that's planned. However, I've heard that the players kids don't actually age, so I don't think dynastic inheritance stuff is implemented for the main player yet. Apparently NPC kids do grow up and inherit n stuff.

So, been playing this a fair bit and having a lot of fun. Game obviously still needs a lot of work, but I think the core game is pretty solid (though I haven't gotten to MP yet and I hear that's pretty fucked). So right now I'm pretty hopeful for the future.

I've been having a really easy time with the economy, you just seem to get so much gold from battle loot.  Early game gold was a bit tight but once I got rolling and beating bandits regularly I didn't have many problems. Now that I'm in the mid game I'm just drowning in cash as every time I beat a moderate size lord's party I get like 15K in equipment and prisoners. I also haven't had to buy food in like 100 days cuz I just loot everything I need.

I think Horses need some kind of upkeep to them. I've been fighting the Khuzaits so I've looted a bajillion horsies from them, and it's a bit silly that now I have 7K carrying capacity for free. I think it should consume some cheap buyable trade good or something to keep horses in your inventory.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 10:23:54 am
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Do assigned companions (quests or caravans or anything else there might be) still count against the party companion limit?

I imagine they must, otherwise you could spin up a trading empire at Renown Rank 1 by just recruiting, funding and sending off endless amounts of companions. Although I guess the # of parties you can have out is also limited by renown.

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Also, another question: Do no nobles give quests any more? I've stopped checking because I haven't found anyone who do. But sometimes when you're at war with someone you can ask them "I hear you have a problem I can solve maybe?" and then they'll say "no duh you can't help me we're at war bruh". So which is it?

They do. I found one random lord that was like "Hey, I have this troublesome mercenary company. Can I give them to you to pawn off on another lord?" Pretty sad when mercs can bully a lord to the point they don't feel they can just fire them. Anyways, it's the only lord quest I've found but I almost never stop off at castles. Just like how there isn't any variety in companions, I think a lot of the quests aren't hooked up yet.

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You never actually have to recruit anyone (although it might be better if you do).

The advantage to not hiring anyone right away and trashing looters, whether that's with a bow or in melee, is a) you get a ton of combat skill ups because you're doing all the work and b) you have zero upkeep so everything is profit. I think I did the first 30 or so days of my game solo, hunting for companions and trading before I finally bought any troops. It is kinda boring, and fights take quite a long time to do safely. (Depending on how good you are, I suppose.) That said, companions don't really interfere with solo play. Recruit em, give em a horse, give em a ranged weapon and order them to follow you during combat, and they'll both stay with you and use their ranged weapon as opportunities come up. It's basically like having a second hitpoint bar since they will always be trailing behind you taking ranged hits. If they go down, no big whoop, they'll just have shitty hitpoints for a while, as long as you didn't turn on Death. The strat can work with very small groups of actual bandits, but by and large it's only viable for looter groups or enemies without a lot of strong ranged attacks and shields. Still, I think I saved up like 5k easy during the early game doing that.

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I think Horses need some kind of upkeep to them.

I both agree and disagree. It does feel weird to have a herd of like 60 horses that require nothing. On the other hand, large herds of horses are so fundamental to gameplay now I don't really want another upkeep lever against it. It's fine once you're swimming in cash and everything is trivial, but upkeep costs for herds would make early game trading harder as you need herds to be a viable trader in the first place.

I'm at that point where I always get to in Mount & Blade where I need to make a real decision. I've flogged the smelting/bandit hunting/trading/troop gathering part of the game to death at this point. Yeah I could grind for more cash to completely outfit my guys in end game gear but that doesn't sound satisfying. (I'm sitting on like 45k right now.) I probably should start some caravans but I like having all my companions, even thought most of them are boring as shit. (There are seriously no Social or Intelligence-type companions in the game anywhere, just the incredibly rare guy that actually has Tactics as a skill.) So it's time to either merc it up or become a vassal. (I suppose I could also find the last couple lords I need to finish the first part of the main quest too...) Problem is, Battania is a mess and they're the ones I want to support. If I sign up as a merc, the Vlandian army is going to squash me probably. If I sign up as a vassal I'll probably get thrown in to a fight with a superior force. Ah well, guess you have to take your licks at some point.....

Also: leadership. What a pain in the ass. It's designed for the vassal-level of gameplay where you actively setup and direct armies. That's where most of the skill ups come from.

The skill ups from "Maintaining High Morale" however really suck if you're not doing vassal gameplay. Basically, it seems that when you're over 68 morale or so there's a "chance" you might get a leadership skill up, and it amounts to literally 1 point of XP against leadership skill. In order to push morale well above 70, you have to be killing groups of size 30+ multiple times a day to get 2.5 or so morale added to the party. And since morale is literally just a ledger of morale increases that fall off after a day, you effectively have to kill multiple 30+ groups of enemies daily to keep pushing your morale up. Which is hard unless you're merc'in or a vassal and stuck in the middle of constant fighting. When you're NOT, you're reduced to hunting large bandit and looter groups, which the game does seem to increase the frequency and size of as your army grows....but when you're trying to level up leadership, it's simply not enough.

The next time I start a new game I'm going to invest in leadership for that very first perk, since that's mostly what I want out of the skill. But I'm one like day 200 at this point, and I've gone from 5 leadership to a whopping _9_ despite trying my best to maintain high morale. The best I can manage is to peak at around 72 for a day before all the morale gained from fights drops off.

It'd be nice if you could actually level up leadership to some useful level w/o having to go the merc/vassal route first.

Also I've seen myself getting Tactics skill ups in the middle of battles. Seems like issuing orders in the middle of a battle grants tactics XP, it's not just whether you "Send Troops" to fight for you.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 09, 2020, 11:26:29 am
RE Tactics: You seem to gain XP every time an order is issued, whether you do it or "your sergeants" (press f6) do. Since the troop AI changes orders fairly often, your tactics skill may go up faster if you use f6 every time you would normally order a charge? Not to mention that the troop AI actually does a good job of managing archers and infantry together and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 11:30:27 am
The invisible sergeants are the real heroes of Bannerlord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 09, 2020, 01:43:07 pm
A couple interesting things from the latest bugfix:
Lords and minor faction party leaders will now visit settlements to trade if they are carrying a lot of loot (especially after successful battles and raids).
<- It actually hadn't occurred to me that they accumulated loot, although it should have from all the grain and other basic villager goods that I've gotten off looters.  Also the fact that when I make a custom sword, I find the same sword in towns far away from where I made it.  Try it sometime: Create one custom weapon, call it Penis or something, and see how many different towns you spot it in.  Social experiment.

Ending mercenary contract with a kingdom through dialogue will no longer result in a relationship loss.
<- So we can go the traditional route again of merc'ing it up before we become vassals.

Bandits will now surrender more easily if their opponent is vastly stronger than them.
<- Yes, I always thought it strange when I hunt down to looters, then I say "Prepare to die!" and they say "You won't take us alive!"  I'm always like "That was the basic idea, idiots".  After all, each surviving looter is 5 gold, and each bit of gear ranges from 1 to several hundred for a Blacksmith hammer that has been broken down into its basic components.  So I don't want alive, I want them dead for all that extra loot.  At least I think that is how loot mechanics work.

Nenjin, regarding your leadership issues (no offense), skills level up based upon the perks assigned and underlying stat, which is why those zero stat recruits only get their skills up to 1, as it plateaus at that point.  So no investment in either the stat or the skill means its not going very far.  Conversely, its entirely possible to over-invest.  I still don't understand the basic mechanics myself, but maybe you can "fix" your character by adding a perk on your next level up or even boosting charisma at the three level point.  Isn't there something about having a maxed out party that also gives leadership?  I just saw that on a tool tip, doesn't mean its accurate, although my maxed out peasant army did seem to have a max party size that went up every week or so.  Also: Peasants are free (no upkeep except food), you only have to pay them when the level up.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 09, 2020, 01:57:23 pm
Well free peasants are the same as free corpses, but they are useful for quick cavalry! (peasant > watchman > mercenary scout cav(?)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on April 09, 2020, 01:57:53 pm
The invisible sergeants are the real heroes of Bannerlord.

You actually do get sergeants in huge battles, which is kind of cool.  I joined my liege in a 500x500 battle with multiple hero characters on each side, and I got command of the cavalry, so I had the normal battle interface but only for the cavalry, and the leader would give orders periodically that I had to pass to my troops with the command tab.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 02:36:13 pm
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Nenjin, regarding your leadership issues (no offense), skills level up based upon the perks assigned and underlying stat, which is why those zero stat recruits only get their skills up to 1, as it plateaus at that point.  So no investment in either the stat or the skill means its not going very far.  Conversely, its entirely possible to over-invest.  I still don't understand the basic mechanics myself, but maybe you can "fix" your character by adding a perk on your next level up or even boosting charisma at the three level point.  Isn't there something about having a maxed out party that also gives leadership?  I just saw that on a tool tip, doesn't mean its accurate, although my maxed out peasant army did seem to have a max party size that went up every week or so.  Also: Peasants are free (no upkeep except food), you only have to pay them when the level up.

I hadn't seen the tooltip about max party size affecting leadership gains. Anyways, players always start with two points in all stats and I've put three focus in to leadership, but you still only seem to get 1 point "sometimes" in the high 60s, low 70s of party morale. It's just not very clear, and likely really underbalanced.

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You actually do get sergeants in huge battles, which is kind of cool.  I joined my liege in a 500x500 battle with multiple hero characters on each side, and I got command of the cavalry, so I had the normal battle interface but only for the cavalry, and the leader would give orders periodically that I had to pass to my troops with the command tab.

That's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 09, 2020, 02:42:32 pm
Gotta say, Bannerlord Big Battles are much better and surprisingly cinematic compared to Warband.

EDIT: I think I'm going to start a new Master Criminal run, i'll let y'all how much the systems are implemented there--I hear there are some big holes in player banditry and thuggery.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 09, 2020, 03:35:10 pm
I was training leadership and farming influence by forming an army of just my clan's parties.  Requesting they join your army costs no/little influence.  As well you gain influence for every party in an army, even your own.  Haven't done that for a few updates.  No idea if it's been fixed or if the devs consider it a bug.

Also at half million bucks and wish it was easier to get to 200 trade, so I can just buy people's lands from them.  (Breaking down weapons, then forming caravans, and a lot of time)

I'm quite interested how the lineage system will work with how long it takes to skill up.  Will your kids gain your focuses?  If so then that would be fine since the more overly focused in something to your skill level the faster the gain.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 09, 2020, 03:37:53 pm
the Trade skill baffles me--it might be because my main save was several updates ago--but I pull in thousands a day, tens of thousands a week sometimes and... narp, nothing it's at like... 30. I got 300K in the bank and have definitely turned over a million+
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 09, 2020, 03:57:29 pm
I'm at 22 trade, one focus point and soc 4.  Day 409.  849K gold.  Some skills just gain way to slowly.  Need to be increased and we need trainers.  Especially for skills like rogue, engineer, really any skill you don't skill up by hitting people/things.  Meanwhile my stewardship is at 132, 12 points past my focus.

Or at least more possible companions with these skills.  I can find a few with 60 rogue, 1 with 60 tactics, 2 with 60 medicine.  Can't find anyone to take on half the clan roles.  Assigned someone to engineer to see if they would skill up.  I guess they helped me set up a ram and a tower a few times, they gained 2 points of skill after 2 sieges.

Been playing the same save since .2, hope future versions can fix this.  Bring back books, add trainers, balance skill gain, have companions available to fill holes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 09, 2020, 04:24:19 pm
Birthday today.
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/Themes/darkling/images/cake.png) *paper birthday horn noises echoing through an empty room*

Got a steam card that I decided to spend on this game.  I played Warband a lot, anything as a new player to bannerlord I need to know?  Major bugs to avoid, softlocks, crashes, skills that sound useful but are not yet implemented, anything like that?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 09, 2020, 04:48:30 pm
Trading and cashflow seem to be more central to success than in Warband. Cashflow is a big issue, and you can find yourself easily going bankrupt w/o some sort of trade operation. (it's expensive to maintain a 100+ band)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 04:54:08 pm
I'm at 2 Social, 4 focus points in trade and I'm pushing 60 skill. Might be an issue with your saves.

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Got a steam card that I decided to spend on this game.  I played Warband a lot, anything as a new player to bannerlord I need to know?  Major bugs to avoid, softlocks, crashes, skills that sound useful but are not yet implemented, anything like that?

It's by and large still basically Warband, just a few more bells and whistles. A fair number of perks don't seem to work, but, they're also advanced ones that you have to put a lot of time in to unlock. Generally I don't think there's much to watch out for atm, they've done a lot of crash fixing of late. Main quest might still soft lock in some places, but others have reported its fine. I think a lot of people's issues stem from continuing to play the same save over multiple patches. It might work but I'd bet money that half of that shit remains broken and/or buggy until you start a fresh game, especially as you get deep in to the vassal/independent nation side of things.

Trading and cashflow seem to be more central to success than in Warband. Cashflow is a big issue, and you can find yourself easily going bankrupt w/o some sort of trade operation. (it's expensive to maintain a 100+ band)

I.e., once you hit Rep 3. At Rep 2 you can have like 75 guys (perks withstanding) and once they're all more or less upgraded you're looking at about 400 denars a day. It's always paid to have a sizable warchest in M&B for times when things are lean. But really, once you're taking down groups of 30+ anythings, the amount of weapons you get and smelting them down in to metal is enough sellable resources that maintaining your warband isn't hard.

The biggest difference is that you have to do smithing at all. It's not like Warband where you get showered in weapons and high quality armor you can just sell to stay afloat. Lower level armors aren't worth much, mid level armor drops are rare from bandits and general trash, so smelting those weapons down to sell the metal is where the real money is at.

Also horses. Get as many horses as you can. More horses = more movement speed & carrying capacity. Without a lot of horses you both can't trade nor carry enough food to support your army. They don't have to be good horses, but if you want both the speed increases and the carrying capacity, they need to be better than just mules.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 09, 2020, 05:23:13 pm
Join a faction that's at war and raid their enemies caravans.  They get ignored most of the time and there's a good few places on the world map where retreating AI just get stuck.  It's were I've gotten most of my food, horses and a decent amount of money. 

Also depends on who you are fighting.  I think I'm responsible for the now roughly 10 desert horses in all the cities of the north west from the hundreds I've sold while at war with Asaria(sp).  Their lords would just reform their free 40 man force and run out of their remaining city into my 120. 

As has been mentioned there's a good chance you'll run into weapons you've crafted.  Especially if you dumped a bunch into one town.  Kind of neat that stuff moves around via caravans. 
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 09, 2020, 07:03:06 pm
Rhomphalias are a thing of beauty. When I first won one in a tournament, I didn't think much of it. I knew that the falx was a good weapon, and this was just a falx on a stick, right?
Wrong. The falx hits like a truck, but this thing hits like a truck on a stick. I've been using it on horseback, and I'm hitting for about 200 damage per swing on average. More importantly, it can reach farther than most polearms used by any faction's foot soldiers, meaning with a little maneuvering you can pick off infantry with near impunity. Enemy horseman aren't safe either, possibly even less so; at full speed, I can hit for about 300 or more, meaning it doesn't matter if I hit the horse or the rider, I've ruined someone's day.
It's also really, really fun to use. I had trouble landing hits at first due to the timing and distance, but once it clicked I basically had a couched lance that hits from the side. The curved blade has a way of wrapping around certain shields to hit enemies who aren't blocking properly, and once I somehow managed to kill two enemies in the same swing. It's satisfying as hell when you get it right.

Having said that, tt's not a perfect weapon. That long reach actually works against you in some circumstances. More than a few enemies have gotten away due to the blade catching on a boulder or tree trunk, and you get the same result if you try to use it anywhere near allies. I haven't tried using it in an urban environment, but I expect it wouldn't go so well.

In short, the rhomphalia probably isn't the sort of weapon you want to use in a siege battle or dense forest, but in an open field it is a devastating and extremely satisfying weapon.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on April 09, 2020, 07:10:20 pm
Also horses. Get as many horses as you can. More horses = more movement speed & carrying capacity. Without a lot of horses you both can't trade nor carry enough food to support your army. They don't have to be good horses, but if you want both the speed increases and the carrying capacity, they need to be better than just mules.
1. Pack type animals: Mule, Camel, and Sumpter Horses
They provide 100 cargo capacity.  They do not provide any other bonus.
2. Just about any other mount type animals.
Provide 20 cargo capacity.   Unequipped mount per footmen = increases party speed until you hit 1:1 ratio, no speed benefits beyond that.
3. Food animals: Pig, Cow, and Goat
Walking bags of food.

Animals will slow you down if you have too many.  Some ratio of 5(?) animals per party member.  Any more will cause a herd speed debuff.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 07:20:03 pm
Meanwhile I've been using the War Razor. I don't know if it's that particular curved sword 2handed version or if all two-handed swords are like this but....man it has a lot of different attack animations and angles. You can hit anyone from pretty much in any position from pretty much any position. I think you can even hit you right side with a swing started from the left. It's like your guy has swivel shoulders that have 360 range of motion. There are times I do attacks with it and I'm just like....the animation doesn't look bad or unbelievable, but my brain is like "that shouldn't really work." Like overhead chopping a dude from horseback.

Funny when they won't let you shoot your bow over your mount's right side but you can put 7 feet of steel through its neck and still kill a guy.

I dunno, I think there's always been a long range bias in M&B. Archery > Lances > Polearms > Two-handers > 1-handers. At least in SP, it's hard to justify the one-handers once you can wield a two-handed sword one-handed. The difference in swing speed doesn't feel nearly as important as the difference in length. That said I'm slightly interested to try daggers, and see if they can exploit the hitboxes of longer weapons that can't really hit you or deal damage with the hafts.

Addendum: I'm not sure loading your game with different modules and resaving it applies everything in the patches. For example, they say they fixed asking about the battle of Pendraic immediately ending conversations after they give their response a few patches ago. But it still happens in my game. I'm gonna restart.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on April 09, 2020, 08:02:56 pm
I heard that food no longer spoils? Seems odd they would get rid of such a realistic and natural logistics problem.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 09, 2020, 08:10:57 pm
I've never cared for extremely short weapons. Anything shorter than 50 and you have to practically clip into the other guy's model to hit. Meanwhile they're backpedaling just enough to stay out of your reach and their weapon is doing enough chip damage to wear you down. I think 75-80 is the best length for close quarters, short enough not to catch on things but still long enough to reach out and touch someone.

It seems like throwing weapons have gotten the best treatment so far, with no-shield polearms coming in at a close second. Bills and rhomphalias are devastating, but throwing weapons are much more viable than they used to be. In the past, you had maybe five chances to kill a guy with a throwing weapon, and unless you had a high proficiencies or the skills to land a headshot you would need at least two hits to do the job. I was initially decieved by how weak the practice javelins used in the arena were, but the real deal can kill a guy from range even with leg hits. Top that off with the perks that let you carry more and throwing weapons are actually useful this time around.
I personally recommend harpoons. I haven't had too much trouble getting ahold of some, and they do tremendous damage. If it's good enough to kill a whale, it's good enough to kill a human.

All of the daggers I've found so far have had a throwable secondary function. That's neat, gives them some added utility, but then you have to consider that there are dedicated throwing knives that come in bundles and get the same benefits as other throwing weapons. Why would I take one knife that cuts okay and can be thrown in a pinch over a dozen knives that don't cut as good but fly better?
I guess they could work for a civilian outfit as a backup weapon, but you could just use the perk that lets you equip throwing weapons on a civilian outfit, and they just seem completely worthless on a battlefield. The only reason I'd consider taking one in that case is if it didn't take up an equipment slot, but even then that's encumbrance I could do without. I just don't see the point.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 09, 2020, 08:41:17 pm
Yeah, never spoils. I do sorta feel like food stops becoming a real issue in the mid game....but I haven't tried supporting an army of 200 or something. Grain alone can sustain an army but if you want the morale bonus for food variety, there's limited stocks of stuff beyond grain and it can get quite pricey per unit.

Restarted my game and looked at the NPC Companion list in the Encyclopedia....NOW I'm seeing guys with Trade, Smithing, few of the non-combat skills starting to show up. Also brown people, which was definitely absent from all of my previous playthroughs.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 09, 2020, 08:43:21 pm
In Warband I always favored heavy sabers. Long, but not too long, fast enough, decent hack and slash attacks, etc. I'm still looking for my new favorite weapon in Bannerlord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 09, 2020, 08:44:34 pm
Restarted my game and looked at the NPC Companion list in the Encyclopedia....NOW I'm seeing guys with Trade, Smithing, few of the non-combat skills starting to show up. Also brown people, which was definitely absent from all of my previous playthroughs.

Yeah apparently all of the companions were being pulled from the Sturgia pool for some reason.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 09, 2020, 09:04:14 pm
In Warband I always favored heavy sabers. Long, but not too long, fast enough, decent hack and slash attacks, etc. I'm still looking for my new favorite weapon in Bannerlord.

My go-to weapon has been a fine steel cavalry [edit: broadsword] I took from some bandit lair boss. 117 reach for a one-hander. Humorously enough when sheathed at my character's side it's almost dragging on the ground it's so long.

On that note, I've noticed that not all weapons of X type are the same - e.g. I've found "Iron Spatha" swords with different stats but the same name. So probably worth taking a closer look at higher quality weapons even if you've seen them before.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: delphonso on April 09, 2020, 09:06:36 pm
I think that was the case in Warband as well - a couple weapons/armor with the same name but different stats. That could have been a mod issue, though - not sure.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 09, 2020, 11:55:06 pm
Yeah, never spoils. I do sorta feel like food stops becoming a real issue in the mid game....but I haven't tried supporting an army of 200 or something. Grain alone can sustain an army but if you want the morale bonus for food variety, there's limited stocks of stuff beyond grain and it can get quite pricey per unit.

Restarted my game and looked at the NPC Companion list in the Encyclopedia....NOW I'm seeing guys with Trade, Smithing, few of the non-combat skills starting to show up. Also brown people, which was definitely absent from all of my previous playthroughs.

The food thing is a bit of an oversight, but at the same time when you ARE running large parties (or gathering armies 400-1000+), food burns real quick anyways. In fact, I almost always gain tons of influence just by being the only lord in an army with enough food to feed the damn thing (and starvation destroys army numbers FAST).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 10, 2020, 12:17:36 am
Nothing like seeing a siege, heading over to it, see it's a sure thing, chasing some bandits instead of waiting, going back to the siege, joining, then almost immediately seeing your 10 days of food reserve turn into 1 day armies food.

Game needs a mission system.  You don't even get invited to armies.  Getting invites or request for food/troops would be nice.  Reward with influence and allow you to do the same thing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on April 10, 2020, 01:57:53 am
You can join a siege without joining the army sieging and giving them all your food. Just click on the city instead and you set up your own little camp (although you can't do things like build siege towers unless you're the leader of the siege, but that should go without saying)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 10, 2020, 03:29:58 am
I never let my grain stocks fall below 100. It's dirt cheap almost everywhere, you loot it off of enemies all the time, and feeding your allies armies is free effortless influence.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 10, 2020, 05:24:26 am
this deserves a doublepost: I just realised you can kick/shield bash people from the battlements
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 10, 2020, 09:55:28 am
this deserves a doublepost: I just realised you can kick/shield bash people from the battlements

yooooooo. Quick question: how do you shieldbash??? is it just kicking while blocking?

EDIT: also allegedly it takes 18 in game years for your children to come of age??? Bruh. That's ALOT of time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 10, 2020, 10:40:07 am
Yes, just hit the kick key while blocking. It also works while blocking without a shield. It's great against enemies who refuse to lower their shield, but it takes long enough to wind up that they can cancel it by hitting you if you're not careful. Best of all, you're not rooted in place like with kicking.

Sadly, both bashing and kicking have a delay now, so the multiplayer tradition of surrounding the last enemy and bullying them to death by mashing E is a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 10, 2020, 10:41:46 am
Yeah, it's just kicking with a shield equipped :D

Sadly, both bashing and kicking have a delay now, so the multiplayer tradition of surrounding the last enemy and bullying them to death by mashing E is a thing of the past.

You just need to organise the bullying, time it appropriately
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 10, 2020, 11:43:46 am
Restarted my game as I said, went for higher social type stats so I could get the first leadership Perk right out of the gate. Ended up with 25 Charm as well.

Start the tutorial, talk to the headman......

Immediately gained like 36 points of Charm upon completing the quest. :P I'm now sitting in the mid 60s having talked to literally one person.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 10, 2020, 05:36:54 pm
Nothing like seeing a siege, heading over to it, see it's a sure thing, chasing some bandits instead of waiting, going back to the siege, joining, then almost immediately seeing your 10 days of food reserve turn into 1 day armies food.

Game needs a mission system.  You don't even get invited to armies.  Getting invites or request for food/troops would be nice.  Reward with influence and allow you to do the same thing.

You get a message when an army is formed.  A big circle with the guy's face appears to the right of the screen.  If you're not seeing it, then it might be an old save or accidentally gotten deactivated.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 10, 2020, 07:23:18 pm
Yes.  The thing is though that message just means you can join if you want.  No reward for doing it (other than the influence for being in an army).  No request from a lord that if you don't join you'll lose standing/money/influence, no "Hey, bring us 50 food and we'll pay."  It's just a message saying an army is forming. 

When I form an army I have to spend influence to recruit other lords parties into my army, and they just come and join.

Right now there isn't a need to do any upkeep to stay in a faction as a merc or vassal.  I can join a faction as a merc and run off to the opposite side of the map and get payed and rewarded by my faction for killing another factions bandits.

There's just no punishment for not helping in a war.  Rewards are in, well rewards from fighting like anything else.  I hope this all gets fleshed out, but it's things that were in old MnB in various forms.  So I expect it to be added at some point.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 10, 2020, 11:58:03 pm
I am getting an urge to mod Bannerlord... there's probably not great documentation considering it JUST came out lol, but if anyone has seen anything floating around in terms of guides please let me know!

I've been thinking of a whole slew of financial mods (among other things), and I thought as a first kind of segue into the scene I would script a lightweight financial tracker and then a loan and debt brokerage system for Lords (to partially replace their cheaty repleshinment)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Seamas on April 11, 2020, 12:40:06 pm
I've been thinking of a whole slew of financial mods (among other things), and I thought as a first kind of segue into the scene I would script a lightweight financial tracker and then a loan and debt brokerage system for Lords (to partially replace their cheaty repleshinment)

While you're at it, I feel like the game is missing a 'moneylender' character, who you can go to for loans (early game anyway) and who'll send thugs after you if you don't pay him back with interest.  Or you could even dump your extra cash with him to pick more up later, for some easy passive income, akin to another workshop?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on April 11, 2020, 01:21:47 pm
Definitely satisfied with the purchase.

Here's a couple things I've worked out:

-Leadership levels primarily from formally organizing an army with at least one other party via the Kingdom (k) window. Just riding around with a decent variety of food will get you to 50ish very quickly.
-Charm boosts from letting captured lords leave is small potatoes. Eat the relationship loss and vote in every kingdom decision you can, especially town/castle distributions. You get heaps of exp for supporting a lord in them.
-You literally cannot make any sort of steel without the relevant perk. It might look like the perks just make it more efficient, but they in fact unlock it.
-Forging part unlocks are tied to exp gains from forging and breaking down gear. Higher-difficulty forging and more expensive/higher-tier gear breakdowns give you faster part gains. Vanilla levels are still abysmally low, but there are mods out there that let you increase how much progress towards parts you gain.
-If you let a skill overtake the boosted exp range provided by focus/attribute points, additional focus points first must "make up" the slow levels you've earned. In other words, if a skill is already in the red and progressing super slow, you're probably better off not using focus points on it, since you won't get the side benefit of faster progression unless you dump a lot of points into it.
-If your army is big/high-leveled enough, smaller groups of bandits will automatically surrender (this usually seems to kick in with an army of ~150-200 and groups of 1-10). This is the fastest way to gather forest/mountain/steppe bandits for easy access to certain overpowered high-tier culture units.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 11, 2020, 01:25:42 pm
BTW: The Steward skill (I think it was steward) has line about "being quartermaster for parties fed with a variety of food" or some such. I always set my own character to the quartermaster role in the clan window, and get regular skill ups in Steward.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 11, 2020, 01:36:56 pm
Two interesting tidbits in the latest beta patchnotes:

Quote
AI quality for NPCs is now determined by skill points in the current weapon's governing skill instead of overall character level.

Hopefully this will even the playing field a bit in terms of specialist AI skilled in one weapon v. the champion whose skill with every weapon also makes them even better with one weapon. Also may mean noncombat specialists will be a little dumber in combat, which is too bad (if sensible).

Also interesting just for the fact that skills affect AI combat routines - was this the case in Warband as well? Always seemed to me like in the prior games it was largely a matter of how quickly they hammered off attacks and maybe feinted.

Quote
Holding ready duration for attacks was added as a driven property and tied to melee combat skill in order to make easier/less able AI agents fight less relentlessly (i.e. they will wait for a while before releasing their attack).

I guess this will end up making the 'lone PC clobbered by looters' thing a bit less common, which is too bad.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 11, 2020, 01:55:02 pm
A bit of hold duration will be nice, since sometimes I could get into situations where a single AI relentlessly clobbers my shield over and over with no gap large enough for me to try a swing of my own.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 11, 2020, 02:09:26 pm
So, just spent 50+ hours helping the Northern Empire reclaim its lost territory, land grab from the Southern Empire, nearly eliminate the Western Empire, and push back the Vlandians, who are now only the second strongest faction in the game. Had plotted to marry Lucon's daughter, but failed that idiotic one-try mini-game. >.>

Man, I get it's early access, but the devs have made some incredibly harsh and bizarre design choices with this game. Yeah, yeah, hardcore, blah blah blah. Now can we have Warband's open-ended sandbox style back, please? Seriously, I almost would have preferred a clone of the previous title with mods like Freelancer integrated and a new paint job.

And what the hell is up with not being able to choose troops or bodyguards for certain quests? Did Floris, the real Mount and Blade, teach them nothing?! ;_; Kind of makes you want to just pat them on the back and say, "You know what, good job with this. Now just stop developing it, don't add anything new- the modders will take it from here, and we don't want you breaking compatibility." :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 11, 2020, 03:09:33 pm
I mean... it's pretty much an improvement over Warband SP in every way. There's plenty of wonkiness but... well what did you expect? It's Taleworlds doin' what they does.

So, just spent 50+ hours helping the Northern Empire reclaim its lost territory, land grab from the Southern Empire, nearly eliminate the Western Empire, and push back the Vlandians, who are now only the second strongest faction in the game. Had plotted to marry Lucon's daughter, but failed that idiotic one-try mini-game. >.>

The marriage mini game sucks for sure, but uh... its kind of a tiny part of the game right now--at least until they finalize all the kind of dynastic and kingdom stuff.

Man, I get it's early access, but the devs have made some incredibly harsh and bizarre design choices with this game. Yeah, yeah, hardcore, blah blah blah. Now can we have Warband's open-ended sandbox style back, please? Seriously, I almost would have preferred a clone of the previous title with mods like Freelancer integrated and a new paint job.

That's uh... pretty much was Bannerlord is lol.

And what the hell is up with not being able to choose troops or bodyguards for certain quests? Did Floris, the real Mount and Blade, teach them nothing?! ;_; Kind of makes you want to just pat them on the back and say, "You know what, good job with this. Now just stop developing it, don't add anything new- the modders will take it from here, and we don't want you breaking compatibility." :P

Bruh. Give it like a month lol.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 11, 2020, 03:48:39 pm
Honestly BL feels more accessible than Warband, to me. Not that I had any problem getting in to M&B since the very first one, but I dunno, it just seems easier to get along. Way easier to get escape velocity in the early game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 11, 2020, 04:28:27 pm
I can agree with that.  You don't feel stuck hunting bandits for what feels like years.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Kanil on April 11, 2020, 04:40:10 pm
I feel more stuck hunting bandits in Bannerlord, honestly. Feels like I get more XP hunting looters and securing most of the kills for myself or my companions than killing a smaller number of higher level troops.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 11, 2020, 04:46:07 pm
I am still hunting bandits, but that's more because I'm trying to figure out who is the closest faction to the old Nords while trying to avoid accidentally aligning with the Vagir(sp?).  I loved having an infantry wall so overpowered that enemy cavalry ran into it and just...ceased to exist.

Oh and not sure if this is the best way to do it, but the train troops quest is annoying and becomes more so as you continually fail them not knowing what to do.  I think the game just checks to see if you either have 10 veterans and then if you don't checks to see if you have borrowed troops left.  If you don't have 10 veterans, and have even 1 borrowed troop in your army you cannot turn in, not even on the deadline day.  To fix that just release all the remaining borrowed troops before hitting the village.  Game assumes they all died and gives you the reward for who you DID level up.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2020, 05:11:44 pm
I am still hunting bandits, but that's more because I'm trying to figure out who is the closest faction to the old Nords while trying to avoid accidentally aligning with the Vagir(sp?).  I loved having an infantry wall so overpowered that enemy cavalry ran into it and just...ceased to exist.

Unfortunately the Vaegirs and the Nords are one and the same this time around, but they seem like a decent heavy infantry faction. Their nobility troop line ends in cavalry, however.

Battanians are also mostly infantry-based, possibly with a bigger focus on two-handed weapons and range rather than weapon-and-shield. Their nobility line is actually heavy archer infantry, interestingly enough.

The only faction completely without cavalry in their commoner troop line is the Imperials, however. They only have cavalry in their nobility line.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 11, 2020, 05:57:50 pm
I can agree with that.  You don't feel stuck hunting bandits for what feels like years.
That took me a while to realize. I spent my first "playthrough" meandering about, trying to subsist off of meager looter spoils and getting my ass handed to me by forest bandits, until I realized that mercenary work is viable early on. In fact, I'd say lords (once they've been softened up by prolonged warfare) are actually easier targets than most of the bandits roaming around.

Bruh. Give it like a month lol.

Yeah, don't mind me. I'm just beside myself because all of my honest simping went to waste. The one woman I ever loved, Lady Phaea, turned me down and now it's all I can do to attack her army every time I see her, only to let her go and show her what an awesome guy I actually am.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 11, 2020, 06:54:07 pm
@scriver,

well Imperials get Buchellari! Which are like Medium-Heavy Horse Archers.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on April 11, 2020, 08:25:18 pm
I can agree with that.  You don't feel stuck hunting bandits for what feels like years.

Yeah, instead you get stuck farming influence to force-seize friendly holdings since you can solo conquer 20 towns and castles as a T5 clan and see all of them go to your liege/random assholes who didn't help in the slightest.

Really makes that moment where you're big enough to start lopping off heads even more satisfying though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Shooer on April 11, 2020, 08:46:09 pm
Well that hasn't changed much since old MnB.  Just now there's a resource that you can use to get land from other lords.

Only reason I went from merc to vassal was because of the rep lose.  Since it's been fixed my next game I'll be jumping around as a merc then forming my own kingdom.  Want to see how well kingdom management works.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 11, 2020, 11:50:30 pm
I can agree with that.  You don't feel stuck hunting bandits for what feels like years.
That took me a while to realize. I spent my first "playthrough" meandering about, trying to subsist off of meager looter spoils and getting my ass handed to me by forest bandits, until I realized that mercenary work is viable early on. In fact, I'd say lords (once they've been softened up by prolonged warfare) are actually easier targets than most of the bandits roaming around.

But of course.  Ever notice just how often lords get captured by looters?  They're pretty weak, especially if their faction has been taking a beating.  I once saw a lord bopping around with zero troops.  I probably should have left the poor guy alone, but I walked over, captured him, then ransomed himself and his wounded troops.  Wasn't even a lot of money, really, but I just couldn't resist.

So, just spent 50+ hours helping the Northern Empire reclaim its lost territory, land grab from the Southern Empire, nearly eliminate the Western Empire, and push back the Vlandians, who are now only the second strongest faction in the game. Had plotted to marry Lucon's daughter, but failed that idiotic one-try mini-game. >.>

Man, I get it's early access, but the devs have made some incredibly harsh and bizarre design choices with this game. Yeah, yeah, hardcore, blah blah blah. Now can we have Warband's open-ended sandbox style back, please? Seriously, I almost would have preferred a clone of the previous title with mods like Freelancer integrated and a new paint job.

And what the hell is up with not being able to choose troops or bodyguards for certain quests? Did Floris, the real Mount and Blade, teach them nothing?! ;_; Kind of makes you want to just pat them on the back and say, "You know what, good job with this. Now just stop developing it, don't add anything new- the modders will take it from here, and we don't want you breaking compatibility." :P

Well, the Mount & Blade: Warband also had its problems, such as not being able to recruit a hero if you spoke with them twice without hiring them, or having them disappear if they left your party too many times.  But that second issue was resolved with a wait, so instead of being permanent, it just took longer that I usually had patience.  They should do something like that with the marriage quests.  Or, you could just marry Lucon's granddaughter after his daughter gets married and has kids.  That is certainly a feature that will be implemented, the only part I'm not sure is in now is whether or not lords/ladies get married among themselves if they don't start that way.

I don't know why, but sometimes I really, really hate that there is a main quest.  Sadly, that seems to just be the way that their development team has changed.  I'm guessing whomever made the sandbox that was the original and Warband lost control to whatever losers think we actually want plot shoved down our throats.  At least it's not as bad as Fire & Sword, I mean they had to mod that game just to make it as good as Warband in terms of being a sandbox.  Otherwise you can only go as good as Native (it defaults to not letting the player start their own kingdom if they aren't following the storyline plot, but a mod fixed that).

Yes, I know that it's "mostly optional", but sometimes I wish there was a checkbox that I could click that would just make it all go away for one play-through.

BTW: The Steward skill (I think it was steward) has line about "being quartermaster for parties fed with a variety of food" or some such. I always set my own character to the quartermaster role in the clan window, and get regular skill ups in Steward.
I always set my character as the surgeon, as I can never find anyone else to do the job, and Steward goes up most days that the men get paid.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on April 12, 2020, 02:30:50 am
Honestly the XP changes in the beta are exactly what the game needed. It really makes early game flow smoother, especially with XP from tourneys. The bandit killing phase flies by now and you get into the meat of the game even quicker than before. Although as mentioned, the merc path is really the way to go, because you can just join some big doomstack and level up/get money through the big kingdom v kingdom battles even if you only have a small party.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 12, 2020, 03:49:33 am
Yeah, Mercin' has turned out to be pretty easy. Once you rack up just a bit of influence you can start getting a nice daily stipend that defrays the cost of your warband, letting you field a bigger one. If you wanna ambush enemy caravans though, you'll need some serious speed. Fuckin' high tech wagons!

I read over the Kingdom policy stuff.....not gonna lie, I felt myself nodding off. Pretty dry stuff, +5% hoohahs to the geegaws when the flimflams are zippity-doo-bop.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: milo christiansen on April 12, 2020, 04:43:08 am
I don't know why, but sometimes I really, really hate that there is a main quest.

I'm going to go the opposite way and say I think it is critical to the game becoming all it can be. Having some kind of obvious goal for new players to work twords will help massively with onboarding. That said, I'm not against some kind of option to disable it when starting a new save.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Flying Dice on April 12, 2020, 06:23:33 am
I always set my character as the surgeon, as I can never find anyone else to do the job, and Steward goes up most days that the men get paid.
You'll automatically heal your troops and level Medicine even if you're filling another role as long as you don't have anyone else assigned as Surgeon. Same deal with Scout and Scouting, Engineer and Engineering. You want to always be the party Quartermaster because it boosts your maximum party size pretty substantially at higher levels.

Yeah, Mercin' has turned out to be pretty easy. Once you rack up just a bit of influence you can start getting a nice daily stipend that defrays the cost of your warband, letting you field a bigger one. If you wanna ambush enemy caravans though, you'll need some serious speed. Fuckin' high tech wagons!

I read over the Kingdom policy stuff.....not gonna lie, I felt myself nodding off. Pretty dry stuff, +5% hoohahs to the geegaws when the flimflams are zippity-doo-bop.
The only really important ones are the few that give increased/decreased influence, since that's your lever to force everyone else to do what you want short of killing them all. The rest I pretty much ignore too.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2020, 06:39:54 am
I agree. It doesn't even feel much like a main quest to me, more like a chance to exposite the background lore/history of the world and make the situation and characters more interesting. I like it a lot. Mat be you can tell, but I haven't really pursued the maim quest beyond the talking to movies yet. I'm in no rush.

But I also disagree. I've played Bannerlord very much like I played Warband so far, and I almost never started my own kingdoms in Warband. It's not really what the games are about to me, just one of the possibilities. And I feel that instead of teaching them to sand it up all in this box, putting making your own kingdom as a reward at the end of a *main quest* like that might feel like it's trying to tell new players that this is what the game is about.

But on a different topic: My Scouting skill has gone bonkers in yesterday's update. I'm gaining skill levels every few steps it feels like. Same with Medic to a lesser degree. It jumped up four skill levels the first time I ever even fought a battle, against half a dozen looters who managed to scratch me a bit. It's crazy, even worse than stewardship was.

I was also under the impression that the whole point of the green fields on the skill tab was to show how much your skill could improve and thay it wouldn't improve beyond them. But no, I keep getting Scouting points. I'm so fucking prepared I can't even


@scriver,

well Imperials get Buchellari! Which are like Medium-Heavy Horse Archers.

Ah, I forgot about those. I didn't use them anything in my Imperial runthroughs, I preferred the Paladin Archers.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 12, 2020, 08:59:53 am
I personally like the general thrust of the main quest, for the reasons above. It also adds a neat little sort of "challenge mode" to the sandbox nature of the game too, as supposedly once you reach the end and fail to stop to halt the timer, every faction will either declare war on all three imperial factions, or the imperial factions will unite against yours, iirc, depending on the path you chose.

I read over the Kingdom policy stuff.....not gonna lie, I felt myself nodding off. Pretty dry stuff, +5% hoohahs to the geegaws when the flimflams are zippity-doo-bop.


I don't care how dry it is, as long as they/someone eventually gives me options to *feel* like I am restoring the empire to a republic.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2020, 09:15:54 am
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 12, 2020, 09:17:48 am

That, or your character is the living embodiment of Odin.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2020, 09:35:19 am
It's not my character, it's a companion. He just super levelled after a single, random, computer-solved looter encounter.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 10:00:00 am
I had to revert from beta because skills were going up so quickly it felt kinda cheaty.

Also I usually set myself as the clan scout to get a boost to that skills' levelling, as everyone has pointed out medicine and stewardship go up fairly quickly on their own.

EDIT: Also I've started kicking and shieldbashing a lot more... damn that mechanic feels great, I just wish the AI would use it more on me to balance it out.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Astral on April 12, 2020, 10:47:41 am
I was also under the impression that the whole point of the green fields on the skill tab was to show how much your skill could improve and thay it wouldn't improve beyond them. But no, I keep getting Scouting points. I'm so fucking prepared I can't even

Possible it changed in the beta, but my impression was that it was a soft cap due to the way the multipliers worked; earning 1x experience for something that takes progressively more experience to obtain would mean it is eventually unfeasible to max it out. It only seemed that it was a hard cap due to how low experience gains were across the board.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 10:52:24 am
Yea, it's a soft cap--you just get very reduced skill gains when you go over. Beta is... really unbalanced IMO, you can achieve god-tier status just by spending an hour in the arena.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 12, 2020, 01:59:14 pm
What does it take to "Level up" a workshop? I find odd that you can only have three, full stop, and nothing seems to raise that cap.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 12, 2020, 03:13:31 pm
Yea, it's a soft cap--you just get very reduced skill gains when you go over. Beta is... really unbalanced IMO, you can achieve god-tier status just by spending an hour in the arena.

Reeeally? Last time I tried, arenas didn't award exp.

EDIT: Oh, i think you mean the beta build.


EDIT: Also I've started kicking and shieldbashing a lot more... damn that mechanic feels great, I just wish the AI would use it more on me to balance it out.

Yeah, bashing is kind of OP, to be honest. You just rush a group, do some foot work and bash-spam, and your men reap the enemy like wheat.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 12, 2020, 07:15:02 pm
Just wanted to confirm that:
1) The main quest is on a 10-year timer.
2) You can totally keep playing if you fail due to it timing out.

I didn't even get past the talk to 10 nobles part.  For some reason, the Khuzait declared war on me.  None of the Empire factions still hold any land.

The Western Empire is also at war with me, but I'm pretty sure I know why they want a piece of me.  :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 07:20:55 pm
Also how long do "years" last in game? Because the timecode might be a bit bugged?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 12, 2020, 07:29:22 pm
Also how long do "years" last in game? Because the timecode might be a bit bugged?

I think you are right, I would have calculated 4 months per year with 30 days per month for a total of 1200 days, but I think I got the failure text before that time.  I only got to that point because I left my character waiting in town while sleeping and when I was out, both interrupted by the town getting besieged.  It was sometime between 800 and 1000 days, from what I recall, I'll have to get the specific number later.

Needless to say, most portions of the main quest should be completed long before then, but I've never gotten past:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 12, 2020, 07:37:30 pm
Also how long do "years" last in game? Because the timecode might be a bit bugged?

I think you are right, I would have calculated 4 months per year with 30 days per month for a total of 1200 days, but I think I got the failure text before that time.  I only got to that point because I left my character waiting in town while sleeping and when I was out, both interrupted by the town getting besieged.  It was sometime between 800 and 1000 days, from what I recall, I'll have to get the specific number later.

Needless to say, most portions of the main quest should be completed long before then, but I've never gotten past:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is this to say that the new version breaks old campaigns, or..?

I know it's inevitable, of course.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 07:39:39 pm
Well after I reverted from the Beta my saves have been broken but I also have a bunch of mods for this early in development so take that with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 12, 2020, 07:43:38 pm
Well after I reverted from the Beta my saves have been broken but I also have a bunch of mods for this early in development so take that with a grain of salt.

Running about 10 mods myself. According to this, the devs patched the problem with at least vanilla saves, though

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bannerlord/comments/g01xwd/made_a_story_video_about_my_first_character_since/

Just gonna run my current setup until it explodes, and then hopefully my Stellaris mods will be up to date by then. :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 12, 2020, 07:44:38 pm
Also how long do "years" last in game? Because the timecode might be a bit bugged?

I think you are right, I would have calculated 4 months per year with 30 days per month for a total of 1200 days, but I think I got the failure text before that time.  I only got to that point because I left my character waiting in town while sleeping and when I was out, both interrupted by the town getting besieged.  It was sometime between 800 and 1000 days, from what I recall, I'll have to get the specific number later.

Needless to say, most portions of the main quest should be completed long before then, but I've never gotten past:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is this to say that the new version breaks old campaigns, or..?

I know it's inevitable, of course.

I didn't risk it.  I've heard mainly that the newer versions fixed issues, but those fixes wouldn't apply to old saves, so I figured I might as well progress with a fresh start since I hadn't really gotten very far.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 08:49:01 pm
Mine was real bad, it just started crashing when I clicked resume/load save. Didn't even get to select a save.

I assume thats due to a cocktail of mods and the Beta reversion. Oh well! It's all good.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 12, 2020, 09:28:44 pm
Had a legitimately epic fight just a moment ago, even though it was a loss.

400 Battanians vs. 460 Western Empire, led by Garios himself. I knew it was probably going to be a loss going in but I figured I'd try it anyways.

It was in the big open field with trees ringing the whole thing.

I took half the cavalry up the right side and posted on a hill in the trees, dropping arrows and letting the infantry close in.

There's so many enemy infantry spread in a single line that there's no real way to flank them, so I ordered the cavalry in.

I go through the mass of infantry, and there's so many I'm getting a kill with every swing of my Battanian Mountain Blade, it's glorious.

I see the enemy starting to "rout" but I've learned that's really just a fighting retreat. You can tell the difference when the archers turn and fire on you as get close. I order the cav back to me and pull away, trying to get them organized and sight another mass of infantry.

After dueling a bit with enemy cavalry I see the rest of the enemy infantry massing on the wooded hill I'd been observing from previously. I order my cav to charge again and start dropping arrows into the tightly packed infantry. I go through two quivers and 90% of my shots are hits and kills. The rest of my allied infantry pours in while the archers set up firing up the hill.

It's a pretty bad scene, tactically speaking. I've taken a few minor hits but my horse is on its last legs. That's when I see the message that the current plan is an organized retreat. Ha. I order the remaining cav back to me and start retreating away from the hill, and hit enemy cavalry behind us. I start fighting them, trying to buy the other units time to flee (spoiler: they don't make it.) My horse gets cut out from under me, and almost like magic, an enemy cavalry soldier drops off his mount right next to me. I mount up again, slay some more cav, and then my mount goes down again. This has to be it, I think. But my few remaining cav and some enemy cav are bunched up and again, by luck, another one drops off his mount practically at my feet and I scoop it up, arrows sticking out of it and everything.

And then I see the message above my screen "Griff, retreat!" I high tail it out of there. The couple of friendly cav I had at my back get cut down as I start to pull away, except one. Not wanting to risk the trees or losing speed turning, I start off across the whole field to reach the other side. My horse is barely fast enough. Javelins and arrows go past me. The pursing cav behind me slays the last friendly cav, and I see the kill went to Garios himself, who is hot on my heels.

I look around. I'm literally the last Battanian on the field.

They start closing the gap on me. My horse is too slow, they'll be on me before I reach the zone boundary.

Garios comes along side and I give him a good smack right in the face, then pull away. He drops back and another cav comes up and awkwardly tries to spear me. I swing but he throws his shield up at the last second and blocks, then turns slightly in to my horse and loses his speed and drops behind me. Garios starts coming up again as I cross the red borderline of the zone, as does his buddy. The seconds count down as he moves in for another attack, and hits zero right as he starts to swing.

The post battle action had us at 11 vs. 90. And half of that number is lords dragged back to the battlefield with 1 or 2 troops a piece.

We got soundly thrashed, but goddamn, it was exhilarating from start to finish, which ya know, I generally don't get to experience getting knocked out in the first 1/3rd of most battles.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 12, 2020, 09:33:39 pm
You can tell Taleworlds did a lot of the testing in set piece battles because everything seems to work best when its 300+ vs 300+, and tbf it's great! Super cinematic--even the losses!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 12, 2020, 10:09:57 pm
One really stupid downside of the AI doing big battles in the open though is the enemy AI always goes on the defensive and holds their position, so their reinforcement literally spawn in to the combat. It's the same thing from Warband and why there is no real substitute for leading your own army. I really hope they address this, it's hard enough to win out numbered, and damn near impossible when your own reinforcements are getting there x10 slower than the enemy's.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: amjh on April 12, 2020, 10:19:34 pm
It would be nice if the reinforcement spawns moved or something like that. Some kind of system that tries to keep both spawns about the same distance from the center of the battle.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2020, 04:19:44 am
The AI doesn't go on the defensive when they're the ones attacking do it? Then it's you who get the well placed reinforcements.

You know what I find really annoying about the AI though? When you lead a flank I usually choose archers since that's the only way to get every flank commanded (not that I know if that matters at all) and the AI always begins by ordering me to skirmish in front of the infantry. But it never gives me any chance to actually get in front of the infantry with my missile troops. So by the time they push their way through the mass of moving infantry they're already up at the enemy troops and guess what then it's "skirmish behind the infantry". Not that I even know what "skirmish" means but I'm pretty sure it means "just pelt them with arrows from afar dude".

And speaking of that last part. I really wish we could give orders like "skirmish" or "protect the flanks" or "flank the enemy" instead of what we have. And I wish we got the "move 10m backwards/forwards" command back. The "move indefinitely" commands are pointless, they'd need a "halt where you are now" command to accommodate them.

Oh, and has anybody used the "face direction/enemy" commands? They don't seem to be doing much. I've tried to use them to make my archers and infantry not spin right round baby because of like a single cavalry flanker when they've got the enemy infantry to think about but they just keep gyring around their own axle like they're doing the dada polka and then the enemy infantry hits them in the sides or the back.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 13, 2020, 07:32:02 pm
Aaaand that does it, it broke. A little disappointed there is no rollback option, but what can you do? Does anyone who has been following the dev details more closely have any idea as to how long they expect the game to continue to be in development, or know of a roadmap?

Until then, back to Warband!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 13, 2020, 08:40:30 pm
Aaaand that does it, it broke. A little disappointed there is no rollback option, but what can you do? Does anyone who has been following the dev details more closely have any idea as to how long they expect the game to continue to be in development, or know of a roadmap?

There is a rollback option, check the beta tab on steam. As for development, the steam page says 1 year IIRC
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 13, 2020, 09:22:34 pm
Aaaand that does it, it broke. A little disappointed there is no rollback option, but what can you do? Does anyone who has been following the dev details more closely have any idea as to how long they expect the game to continue to be in development, or know of a roadmap?

There is a rollback option, check the beta tab on steam. As for development, the steam page says 1 year IIRC

Weird... I don't have the option, going to restart my PC and check. 1 year isn't bad at all, though, considering what they're doing. And barring the damned buggy quests, I'm actually impressed with how stable the base game is.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 14, 2020, 04:01:12 pm
Just saw a youtuber by the name of The Spiffing Brit.  Apperantly he found out that when you get high enough trade skill you can trade settlements with lords.

From the video it looks like it was not playtested because....uh....lords will happily give them to you >for free< once you gain the skill.  Apparently the settlements have negative value.

Enjoy that while you can before it gets patched out :P

EDIT: Aww seems he reported that bug before he uploaded the video as it was apparently fixed in the beta branch.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 14, 2020, 04:16:04 pm
I was under the impression that only in the beta was it even possible to get trade skill that high.  Have the fixed the trade skill increase in the regular version so that it actually goes up past 75 ever?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 14, 2020, 04:26:45 pm
Sadly in the video it does not show him building up enough skill but it does seem implied that he gained it naturally as he appears to be well into a game from the point where the video starts.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in the differences between the branches can watch the video and determine how exactly it happens.  I've only played on stable so I don't know what to look for.

The relevant video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU7OCnIocI0)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 14, 2020, 05:32:56 pm
Banrekord Tweaks mod was giving me huge xp bonuses (literally putting skills in the thousands) because of changes in the... whichever patch it was. If he was using that mod too that could be the reason.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 14, 2020, 10:07:46 pm
So, I recently started playing with this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/537?tab=posts


It implements the "shattered kingdoms" concept from CK II, making it so that most clans of the former kingdoms starts off as a kingdom of its own. I am loving it, because I find that it drastically slows the pace of the game and prevents factions from consolidating into two or three mighty empires before you even enter politics, allowing you to explore, build relations, and play at your own pace without having to worry that the end game won't be there by the time you are ready. Of course, the main faction leaders start of with two or three clans under them, so they do have an edge.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 16, 2020, 04:46:09 pm

"I am not a warrior, but I'm quick to learn and fast with a knife. This is totally a reasonable amount of money I ask for to be in your mercenary company"

edit: (and yes, I am naked. I start by selling all my civilian gear to get more money to bet in the tourneys)

(...On second thought I just realised why she was asking for such an impossible amount)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2020, 04:46:50 pm
I would love to know what those numbers are based on. Because there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 16, 2020, 04:52:41 pm

Might be a mod fucking things up for me I guess.

(and yes, still naked)

edit:

Coincidentally, I finally found some clothes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dehimos on April 17, 2020, 07:17:16 am
Beta branch 1.2.0 changes that: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-branch-patch-notes-e1-2-0.416103/

Quote
Clan and Party

Companions now come with cheap items with modifiers, so they are easier to recruit.

For this branch, Steam-> Properties-> Beta and select.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 17, 2020, 07:22:18 am
Beta branch 1.2.0 changes that: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-branch-patch-notes-e1-2-0.416103/

Quote
Clan and Party

Companions now come with cheap items with modifiers, so they are easier to recruit.

For this branch, Steam-> Properties-> Beta and select.

Actually, I don't mind now that I understand companion costs to scale with their equipment, which I think is a great feature that was missing from prior games.  While far worse with mods, there were a few cases in native/warband where the companions cost less than their equipment.  Of course, some were free, so of course those ones were cheaper than their equipment.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2020, 09:27:32 am
I think part of the confusion is you rarely get a companion in actual armor. You get them in fancy civilian gear and sometimes a decent weapon, which when you first recruit them still makes you go "why did I pay 3000 denar for a guy with soft boots, doublet and sword?"

"I just need 4326 denars to settle some debts."

"By debts you mean that 3437 denar sword you bought on credit?"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 17, 2020, 09:58:09 am
"It was on sale OK?! They said it was a once in a life-time offer, and I only had another hour left to decide"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 17, 2020, 03:47:00 pm
I just noticed double-post: If you trade with caravans on the road, it seems you can buy up all their cargo horses and leave them moving at a snail's pace because they're suddenly overloaded
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2020, 03:52:21 pm
I just noticed double-post: If you trade with caravans on the road, it seems you can buy up all their cargo horses and leave them moving at a snail's pace because they're suddenly overloaded

I guess that's good for one time banditry but once they know they're an enemy they'll never slow down to let you catch them.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 17, 2020, 07:16:19 pm
I just noticed double-post: If you trade with caravans on the road, it seems you can buy up all their cargo horses and leave them moving at a snail's pace because they're suddenly overloaded

I guess that's good for one time banditry but once they know they're an enemy they'll never slow down to let you catch them.

Speaking of which, anyone know how to repair relations in Bannerlord?  I mean, the "join their enemies, then get peace'd out when they do" works, but any other way?

Also, you can become a criminal, mostly by doing, most of the Town quests.  Any way to lose that status?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on April 17, 2020, 07:49:11 pm
I just noticed double-post: If you trade with caravans on the road, it seems you can buy up all their cargo horses and leave them moving at a snail's pace because they're suddenly overloaded
I guess that's good for one time banditry but once they know they're an enemy they'll never slow down to let you catch them.

Doing this could potentially lead to more bandits catching the caravans and stealing their loot, resulting in lots of fat bandits crawling around the map for you to mop up?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: A Thing on April 17, 2020, 07:53:09 pm
Speaking of which, anyone know how to repair relations in Bannerlord?  I mean, the "join their enemies, then get peace'd out when they do" works, but any other way?

Also, you can become a criminal, mostly by doing, most of the Town quests.  Any way to lose that status?

I think the criminal status just goes down over time. I also want to say that doing 'good' deeds for various village local importants lowers it as well but I only really got criminal status when I first started and stuff has changed since then/I don't remember everything. I imagine we're supposed to actually be able to run a criminal empire at some point, not just do tasks for criminals.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 17, 2020, 11:14:32 pm
Also there is a mod that raises your relations with nearby notables anytime you kill bandits. It's a nice way to get some passive charm + relation improvements.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 18, 2020, 12:51:34 am
Doing this could potentially lead to more bandits catching the caravans and stealing their loot, resulting in lots of fat bandits crawling around the map for you to mop up?

That just sounds like killing the prostitute in Grand Theft Auto to get your money back with extra steps.

I decided to put the game down for a week or two and give the devs a chance to work some of the kinks out, what's the general state of things right now? Are multiplayer models still absolute units?


Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 18, 2020, 01:07:06 am
Multiplayer is all kinds of unbalanced--it just doesn't have that Warband magic yet.

That said, with mods, SP feels really good.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 18, 2020, 07:58:35 am
I think they have to get combat to run better before multiplayer gets better.  Very slow progress, although I have noticed that the battles run better with each release.  Still not well, although I'm also realizing that both myself and my laptop have aged a bit.  What used to be decent specs are the Bannerlord minimum.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Blastbeard on April 18, 2020, 01:38:13 pm
I can sum up my multiplayer experience by saying sturgia is an ungodly abomination combining the strongest parts of nords and vaegirs, and if you don't tale a falx you're throwing. Also had the misfortune to play as khuzait defenders on a siege map. At the time, their bows were complete dogshit despite nominally being the horse archer faction and their melee troops may as well have been cardboard cutouts. So yeah, about as balanced as... a really unbalanced thing.

Back to my previous post, I was actually referring to something I'm not even entirely sure happened. Apparently for a moment units in multiplayer became ridiculously fat. Fat enough Harlaus is building a time machine just to go back and stop them from eating all the butter. This was around April fools, so take it with a grain of salt spoonful of butter.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 18, 2020, 02:55:46 pm
Yea almost all the models in the game became fat. It is fixed now though (I think).

Regardless, I think the failings of Bannerlord MP go beyond balance--once people can host servers (I still don't know why they decided to restrict it) and MP modding is out I'm sure I'll be happy but as it stands Warband MP >>> Bannerlord MP. It's not even close.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 18, 2020, 03:56:21 pm
I'm not sure how Warband MP fixed it (never played), but Kergit sucked at defending in sieges.  In singleplayer, that was ok because they made up for it in field battles.  The Nords wrecked in sieges, but without horses generally died in the field.

Unfortunately, Sturgia did indeed combine that siege strength of both the Nord soldiers and Vaegir archers, and threw in sufficiently early horsemen to really wreck everyone's day.  From what I can tell, its only pure attrition that kills them off in single player.  The map is by far the most unbalanced thing in single player.  Some factions only border like 2 or 3 factions, they tend to win overall.  Others border almost everyone else, Western Empire being the best example of a surrounded faction that just can't survive.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 18, 2020, 04:11:51 pm
Had my first battle where I managed to get 50 personal kills, most of which weren't recruits. I am starting to get used to the new combat animations, and have to say, while working one and two handed weapons from a mount is tricky, the polearm combat is very satisfying. Going to shoot for a 100 kill battle today, as my past self playing Prophesy of Pendor is still disappointed in me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 18, 2020, 04:14:37 pm
Speaking of being godly in combat, can you only shield bash one person at once?

It would be interesting if high athletics/weapon skill characters could push multiple people back at once and go full viking with the multiple hit weapons.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 18, 2020, 04:44:11 pm
I'm not sure how Warband MP fixed it (never played), but Kergit sucked at defending in sieges.  In singleplayer, that was ok because they made up for it in field battles.  The Nords wrecked in sieges, but without horses generally died in the field.

Unfortunately, Sturgia did indeed combine that siege strength of both the Nord soldiers and Vaegir archers, and threw in sufficiently early horsemen to really wreck everyone's day.  From what I can tell, its only pure attrition that kills them off in single player.  The map is by far the most unbalanced thing in single player.  Some factions only border like 2 or 3 factions, they tend to win overall.  Others border almost everyone else, Western Empire being the best example of a surrounded faction that just can't survive.

I thought that was kinda the point of the era though. The Empire collapsed, fragmented and now its remnants are being picked off by the factions that eventually come to represent the kingdoms in Warband. The can come back with the player's help, but by and large I thought they were supposed to lose.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 18, 2020, 05:11:45 pm
I'm not sure how Warband MP fixed it (never played), but Kergit sucked at defending in sieges.  In singleplayer, that was ok because they made up for it in field battles.  The Nords wrecked in sieges, but without horses generally died in the field.

Unfortunately, Sturgia did indeed combine that siege strength of both the Nord soldiers and Vaegir archers, and threw in sufficiently early horsemen to really wreck everyone's day.  From what I can tell, its only pure attrition that kills them off in single player.  The map is by far the most unbalanced thing in single player.  Some factions only border like 2 or 3 factions, they tend to win overall.  Others border almost everyone else, Western Empire being the best example of a surrounded faction that just can't survive.

I thought that was kinda the point of the era though. The Empire collapsed, fragmented and now its remnants are being picked off by the factions that eventually come to represent the kingdoms in Warband. The can come back with the player's help, but by and large I thought they were supposed to lose.

In my personal experience, the Northern and Western Empires usually do well, the Khuzait and Vlandians dominate, and the Aserai and Sturgians are almost always destroyed.

Since the early days of Warband, I've had this paranoid conspiracy theory that the AI is rigged to apply extra pressure to any faction the player supports though.

What I would like to see, is the weaker factions teaming up against stronger ones to maintain the balance of power. The ideal would be a game world in which the borders don't change except marginally unless the player exerts a great deal of effort and resources to make it so.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 18, 2020, 05:34:37 pm
Also Western Empire feels like it is supposed to tank. I mean it could theoretically be under attack by all the factions sans Khuzaits at the same time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 18, 2020, 06:39:42 pm
Which is fine, really. It just means that supporting the Western Empire is kind of hard mode.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 18, 2020, 07:11:51 pm
Which is fine, really. It just means that supporting the Western Empire is kind of hard mode.

Honestly, I think the first year or two is what determines who will dominate just based on initial losses and the inability of the AI to rebuild their armies with higher tier troops before they get steam rolled. The West Empire is in a bad position, but I had one game in which the Battanians, Vlandians, Sturgians, and Aserai whittled each other down, then the WE jumped in and, after it gained a couple of settlements, they couldn't stop it. Geography is a huge factor, but attrition is the biggest one, and the frequency and duration of wars means that defeated factions never get much of a chance to recover.

I suspect that adding Warband's daily exp bonuses and rebalancing war durations would fix this. And it would be nice, too, since about 12 hours in to a new campaign, I can't remember the last time I fought a lord who had an army made up of more than mostly fresh recruits that my slightly smaller force couldn't mow down with little to no casualties.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 18, 2020, 07:53:40 pm
Hrm. I really haven't experienced this raw recruit army thing. Pretty much all the big battles I've been in have been huge slogs for all involved. It seems fairly even to me--but then I'm using mods like War Attrition which make the AI chill a bit so.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 18, 2020, 08:52:15 pm
I've seen it. Probably 60% of an army being made up of T1 volunteers. Since they recruit from the same places you do, where the AI decides to go + what's available dictates what they have. (Although I'm sure there's a fair amount of cheating there, at ~10 soldiers per village on average, it'd take an entire country to field a 300+ army regularly.)

In my game which I haven't played for a few updates, everyone mostly seems to be holding their own around Day 200. Sturgia getting beaten up by Vlandia but WE actually is defending its territory about 1000% better than in my previous game, whereas Battanian just seems to be unable to organize a large army and gets individual nobles crushed and captured 1 by 1.

I assume if you really want to bring a nation down, you execute their nobles rather than ransom them? Because they're back in the field with troops like, a couple days later.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 18, 2020, 09:22:36 pm
I've seen it. Probably 60% of an army being made up of T1 volunteers. Since they recruit from the same places you do, where the AI decides to go + what's available dictates what they have. (Although I'm sure there's a fair amount of cheating there, at ~10 soldiers per village on average, it'd take an entire country to field a 300+ army regularly.)

In my game which I haven't played for a few updates, everyone mostly seems to be holding their own around Day 200. Sturgia getting beaten up by Vlandia but WE actually is defending its territory about 1000% better than in my previous game, whereas Battanian just seems to be unable to organize a large army and gets individual nobles crushed and captured 1 by 1.

I assume if you really want to bring a nation down, you execute their nobles rather than ransom them? Because they're back in the field with troops like, a couple days later.

Pretty much. I have a mod that lets me execute anyone with the "cruel" trait without an honor penalty, not that it really matters, and I find that killing off just that handful of enemy nobles (and mercenaries) keeps them from snowballing too badly. Actually just found Monchug running around with 8 soldiers (and about 190 wounded) and axed him a few minutes ago, which was cute.

I think I would prefer if nobles 1.) stayed in their culturally respective factions, and 2.) were replaced when they died. Executing people should probably be more of an RP/faction vendetta thing, as it is too easy to cripple factions that way. You could implement some meaningful mechanic to discourage it, but... why? It's actualkly kind of silly to me that the "honorable" imperial noble might care at all if you're lopping the heads off of what they consider to be rampaging barbarians.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 18, 2020, 09:45:55 pm
I'm pretty sure that the mechanic of nobles abandoning a losing faction still exists, so nobles will eventually gravitate to the factions that are winning and out of the ones that are losing.  It goes by clan.  I think just taking settlements for one faction will eventually cause a clan to move from your enemy to your liege's kingdom.  Settlements are all defended by the same troops, except whatever lords bring to the table.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 18, 2020, 11:16:36 pm
I'm pretty sure that the mechanic of nobles abandoning a losing faction still exists, so nobles will eventually gravitate to the factions that are winning and out of the ones that are losing.  It goes by clan.  I think just taking settlements for one faction will eventually cause a clan to move from your enemy to your liege's kingdom.  Settlements are all defended by the same troops, except whatever lords bring to the table.

Yeah, but in the meantime, they still foot armies. And if they jump ship to another enemy faction, they're still a problem. Plus, sharing a faction means sharing fiefs. :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 19, 2020, 12:44:52 am
Just noticed a few things:

1) I got a leadership skill point from recruiting troops!  While it could be coincidence, I got the point just as I recruited the new person.
2) Smithing material costs got a major nerf.  While it will still be slightly more profitable to smelt down the weapon than sell it intact, that is not an absolute rule, as the cost of lumber has to be considered.  It might still be profitable to buy simple bastard swords, smelt them, and sell the parts, it would probably be based on the town and not the ungodly sums from before.  Overall a good change, but it means I can't grab oodles of denars for basically doing nothing.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 19, 2020, 01:16:05 am
Re: smithing.

Smelting seems to be nearly useless now, unless it's to get more hardwood. Otherwise, it seems like hardwood -> charcoal refining is really the only sell-in-bulk money maker.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 19, 2020, 01:40:06 am
Re: smithing.

Smelting seems to be nearly useless now, unless it's to get more hardwood. Otherwise, it seems like hardwood -> charcoal refining is really the only sell-in-bulk money maker.
I think they're trying to balance smithing to make it more about crafting than profit. We can only hope that, #someday we'll be able to forge weapons that are more than 2 or 3 points better than what you can buy. v.v
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 19, 2020, 02:08:46 am
For smithing to actually be interesting non-profit-based I needs me way more parts, damage potential, and armor. It seems  a long way off.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 19, 2020, 02:15:17 am
So in the newer patch notes they've mentioned item modifiers. Have anyone seen anything like these in-game? The only thing I can think of are all the helmets with different linings. J don't know what else they've could've been referring to, I can find no items with modifiers a la Warband.

Also it bugs me that they haven't fixed the wrapped boots with 17 armour and even more the rough leather bracers with 30 armour. I feel like a chump for not using them but it also feels silly to not use them.


Re: smithing.

Smelting seems to be nearly useless now, unless it's to get more hardwood. Otherwise, it seems like hardwood -> charcoal refining is really the only sell-in-bulk money maker.

The most profitable quest right now is the "Gang leader needs weapons" quest when they wants one-handed swords (I've only encountered variants of wanting one-handed swords and crossbows). I always carry at least 50-100 of all metals just from passively smelting enemy weapons, so there's no real cost and you can easily whip up a dozen shitty shortswords for him. It pays between 10 000-15 000 just for a few clicks worth of time.

Yes, I'm assuming that's a bug because the payment mentioned is usually ~3000-5000. But it's easy denars for now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 19, 2020, 02:54:36 am

The most profitable quest right now is the "Gang leader needs weapons" quest when they wants one-handed swords (I've only encountered variants of wanting one-handed swords and crossbows). I always carry at least 50-100 of all metals just from passively smelting enemy weapons, so there's no real cost and you can easily whip up a dozen shitty shortswords for him. It pays between 10 000-15 000 just for a few clicks worth of time.

Yes, I'm assuming that's a bug because the payment mentioned is usually ~3000-5000. But it's easy denars for now.

I dunno, I usually start my campaign going from village to village returning wayward daughters. At a minimum of 1.5k a pop to either persuade the girl or kill some poor sob who can barely use a blade, I usually net a good sum.

Oh what I wouldn't give to just copy+paste Warband's Floris mod onto Bannerlord's engine and fx.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 19, 2020, 03:01:50 am
Oh what I wouldn't give to just copy+paste Warband's Floris mod onto Bannerlord's engine and fx.

i feel like as soon as the game stabilizes near the full release candidate, with all the mod work going on now, this will be a reality. heck, within a couple weeks they already coded a simple diplomacy mod, the ability to invest in villages (with the new bannerlord gauntlet ui!), and the ability to hire independent patrols from said villages and towns. wrap all of this up in one bundle and we have basically the floris mod pack gameplay version.

in the meantime im still playing a pendor campaign with warband and keeping up with bannerlord patch notes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 19, 2020, 03:16:19 am
I dunno, I usually start my campaign going from village to village returning wayward daughters. At a minimum of 1.5k a pop to either persuade the girl or kill some poor sob who can barely use a blade, I usually net a good sum.

This makes you a dishonourable swinedog though
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 19, 2020, 04:56:39 am
I dunno, I usually start my campaign going from village to village returning wayward daughters. At a minimum of 1.5k a pop to either persuade the girl or kill some poor sob who can barely use a blade, I usually net a good sum.

This makes you a dishonourable swinedog though

Not at all! My honor rating is "honest," and I am simply upholding ye olde law. The father of the house decides the role of his children and whom they marry. The Almighty has made it so, and to forsake this venerable custom is dissidence and blasphemy!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 19, 2020, 05:53:16 am
I dunno, I usually start my campaign going from village to village returning wayward daughters. At a minimum of 1.5k a pop to either persuade the girl or kill some poor sob who can barely use a blade, I usually net a good sum.

This makes you a dishonourable swinedog though

Not at all! My honor rating is "honest," and I am simply upholding ye olde law. The father of the house decides the role of his children and whom they marry. The Almighty has made it so, and to forsake this venerable custom is dissidence and blasphemy!

I usually wait until I have a companion to kill the bridenapper.  I can't be bothered to get my sword bloody, although its a relatively easy fight.  I could internally justify the whole thing as believing the bridenapper is really a ne're do well that won't be able to support himself or the headman's daughter.  I mean, if the ne're do well is going to just gamble away his money, use drugs, and eventually sell the daughter to slavers, then I'm the hero.
...what I actually do is say "Ah yes, these elders have it right.  Nowadays, too few parents teach their children how to properly hate.  This girl, she will have the ability to hate, for whatever virtue there is in that."
Then I buy something nice and quickly forget about her.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 19, 2020, 02:24:58 pm
Is earning traits even in? I swear I've never seen myself pick up a trait point for doing anything. I thought that was the possible downside of having to kill her lover, do it enough times and you start getting the cruel trait.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 19, 2020, 02:33:10 pm
Trait points are in. They usually come in values of ~50 per quest solved and you need 1000 to get a trait level.

Valor is supposed to be gained from fighting. Once you get mode than a handful of troops I've never received valor, but perhaps my contribution is just too meagre.

The starting traits are you get from the backgrounds are bugged however. You receive the traits, but you don't get the points that you need to fulfil the trait level. So the first time you get points of that trait the computer checks and sees that you only have 50/1000 (or 5/1000 in the case of Valor) points and thus shouldn't have the trait, and you lose it.

I'm using a mod which shows you at least some of the points you gain and loose and which is supposed to fix the starting trait bug. I've ended up losing all my traits anyway but that might just be because I'm too ambivalent in how I solve quests or whatever. I dunno. I managed to work up to 1000 Honour in a previous play through.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 19, 2020, 07:35:50 pm
Huh. It appears that when you smith an item it becomes something that can just be made and sold.

I have a sword I'm using I called Ice Shard. I've only made the one, and my character is the one wielding it. And yet, it's for sale in this city I'm in. I guess some blacksmith liked by mediocre quality sword?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 19, 2020, 07:53:12 pm
thats both kinda interesting and also kinda annoying.

i like the idea that if you make slightly above average weapons using mediocre materials, it becomes a fad or adopted by smiths and sold.

but i would at least like it if i make myself the best, highest quality Damascus steel weapons (i know its called something else in game but hey), that they dont just flood the market. after all, i don't see the highest level steel on sale, so what could they be making these out of?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on April 19, 2020, 11:50:26 pm
So if someone were to make 1000 swords, the market would be flooded with 1000 different types of swords?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 20, 2020, 09:22:54 am
Well, I don't think it's a case of "This always shows up". I haven't seen it in every city, and they only had one. I think it just gets added to the list of possible equipment for sale in the cities. So if you made a thousand sword types, you'd greatly increase the possible variety.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 20, 2020, 10:17:41 pm
Well, I don't think it's a case of "This always shows up". I haven't seen it in every city, and they only had one. I think it just gets added to the list of possible equipment for sale in the cities. So if you made a thousand sword types, you'd greatly increase the possible variety.

And I think the game favors the cheap stuff, so only the swords that are lousy are going to show up reliably.  That would actually explain a lot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 21, 2020, 12:35:51 am
I dunno, I usually start my campaign going from village to village returning wayward daughters. At a minimum of 1.5k a pop to either persuade the girl or kill some poor sob who can barely use a blade, I usually net a good sum.

This makes you a dishonourable swinedog though

Not at all! My honor rating is "honest," and I am simply upholding ye olde law. The father of the house decides the role of his children and whom they marry. The Almighty has made it so, and to forsake this venerable custom is dissidence and blasphemy!

I usually wait until I have a companion to kill the bridenapper.  I can't be bothered to get my sword bloody, although its a relatively easy fight.  I could internally justify the whole thing as believing the bridenapper is really a ne're do well that won't be able to support himself or the headman's daughter.  I mean, if the ne're do well is going to just gamble away his money, use drugs, and eventually sell the daughter to slavers, then I'm the hero.
...what I actually do is say "Ah yes, these elders have it right.  Nowadays, too few parents teach their children how to properly hate.  This girl, she will have the ability to hate, for whatever virtue there is in that."
Then I buy something nice and quickly forget about her.

This is how I absolve myself from unholy guilt as well. Killing a rival lord may be "dishonorable," but if God was against it, getting his gear to equip my companions wouldn't make me so happy, so it's ok.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 21, 2020, 09:11:39 am
Been playing this. Fun game! Love the optimizations they've done. Playing 500 man battles smoothly on my laptop. Trying to do the same in Warband on this laptop is just not possible.

I made a little mod a few days ago for anyone that might want it. Basically fixing annoyances that I've had with the game, fixing some broken and unfinished stuff, etc. I love how easy Bannerlord is to mod, even without the official modding tools yet. I remember when Warband first came out before the module system was out, I was painstakingly editing text files and posting which numbers to edit on a thread for people haha. Now I can just release a little mod with sliders to set whatever.

Here it is if anyone wants to check it out: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/692
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 21, 2020, 10:02:34 am
In my last game I had the same village elder whose daughter eloped....5 times? I didn't know if it was a comment on his parenting, or the fact she fell truly in love with 5 different guys in the course of about a year. Whatever, I'm not a relationship councilor, pay me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 21, 2020, 10:21:41 am
In my last game I had the same village elder whose daughter eloped....5 times? I didn't know if it was a comment on his parenting, or the fact she fell truly in love with 5 different guys in the course of about a year. Whatever, I'm not a relationship councilor, pay me.

Can't wait for the now-inevitable relationship councilor mod.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 21, 2020, 10:31:41 am
In my last game I had the same village elder whose daughter eloped....5 times? I didn't know if it was a comment on his parenting, or the fact she fell truly in love with 5 different guys in the course of about a year. Whatever, I'm not a relationship councilor, pay me.

Can't wait for the now-inevitable relationship councilor mod.

Or he could just get her married off, maybe with a quest for the player to deliver her to her husband unsullied.  Have fun fighting off her army of lovers.
Then it becomes his problem.
You fail the quest if you keep the dowry (probably livestock).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 21, 2020, 10:57:20 am
Only if you get the option to elope for a massive hit to honor and relations! Commoner Marriage ftw!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 21, 2020, 11:00:08 am
I've had the quest leave the daughter as a recruit-able companion. So I returned her, then rode off with her myself. She starts with 0 stats and focus points with a big negative number to leveling up, though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 21, 2020, 11:08:34 am
Are you sure about that? When you slay her lover she has to join your party as one of those quasi-companions (Like the Family Feud NPC.) But I didn't think that made them recruitable.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 21, 2020, 11:51:58 am
I only had it happen once. Not entirely sure what caused it. She showed up in the village as an "Outlaw" and was recruitable. I think it was the daughter quest that generated her.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 21, 2020, 02:23:04 pm
I've always wondered about that myself.  I figured that if I killed the lover, then went back to her father and said she should stay with the lover, then the game would probably let me keep her, kinda like the sheep that I can keep on the village deliver to town quests.

Never really tried it, since its a zero all recruit, and from what I can tell there are more good companions to recruit than I'll ever get companion slots, but it seemed like a fun idea.  Bonus points if you get her father's village as a fief and you put her in charge of it.

Only if you get the option to elope for a massive hit to honor and relations! Commoner Marriage ftw!
Why no, my wife is in fact not a commoner.  If you disagree, then I challenge you to a duel for dishonoring my wife.  And I'd probably kill any noble that I captured that alleged that my wife was a commoner.  Might makes right.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 21, 2020, 02:57:07 pm
TAKE THAT, DAD! GO SHOVEL SOME MANURE.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 21, 2020, 02:59:44 pm
LOL
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 21, 2020, 03:48:42 pm
So does how tall your character is matter in stats at all? I generally have a bunch of OCs I play in 'create your character' type games. 

My first character was a medium sized female lancer/horse archer who was op as all hell in warband, despite that games apparent negatives to playing female chars.  She absolutely gets her ass handed to her on the regular here.

Then I play the party 'fighter' a big guy with a sword no ranged options whatsoever, and he's lopping off heads wholesale.  Accidentally stumbled into a fight of just him vs 9 looters and he won.  He's also dominating just about every arena match from the word 'go'.  The only times he loses is when he's given a bow, and even those I usually just grab some other weapon off the floor and go to town.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 21, 2020, 03:58:28 pm
I don't believe it matters in stats, but I wonder if height could translate to arm length which could affect the physics of sword blows.  Due to the complex physics of the game, I could see a "reach advantage" being simulated.  I've never really noticed, personally.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Greiger on April 21, 2020, 04:31:09 pm
Hmm I actually forgot that the game actually properly simulates the swing of weapons.  Remembering that maybe that simply raises the level of where the swinging is as well.  As in one guy towering over another guy the taller one when doing a straight side to side swing is right at head level giving head and neck shots more often, while a shorter person has to aim up to get those same kind of hits hmm.

Though by that same logic attacking from horseback would be harder as yer swing is higher up, and it does not seem to be any harder killing fleeing looters with a falx with Knight Biggs, than it was as Dame Smalls with a broadsword.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 21, 2020, 05:19:15 pm
Height does at least affect hitboxing. It's much easier to duck blows if you're short!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 22, 2020, 12:22:36 am
From playing short chars (even toddlers just for kicks) and super tall chars, it changes your swings quite a bit. For archers, being small is nice - you can dodge enemy projectiles easier and even duck blows in melee.

For melee characters, I seem to do better as a tall character. I believe it may have a slight reach advantage, but the big one is most of my blows hit enemy heads while enemy blows that would otherwise be headshots hit me in the shoulder instead. So I take less damage and deal more damage. The negative is having to aim down a little to hit some short people, and being a bigger target for ranged weapons.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 22, 2020, 05:08:56 pm
Fired up the ol' Floris on Warband today while wearing my rose-tinted glass for a riveting game of full-featured Mount and Blade...

Yeah, I can never play this again. Whatever its EA shortcomings, Bannerlord's animations and visceral combat really emphasize just how much the first game is like piloting a clunky clockwork robot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 22, 2020, 05:23:26 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 22, 2020, 06:11:51 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.

I would cut off and burn my left nipple as a sacrifice for a Bannerlord Pendor mod.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 22, 2020, 06:14:50 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.

I would cut off and burn my left nipple as a sacrifice for a Bannerlord Pendor mod.

Lol I think that'll be unnecessary, there isn't any documentation out rn, AND there's not REALLY any modding tools, that said I've already poked around some of the C# libraries--and combined with the functionality I've seen in some of the mods so far w/o any of the above I think we'll probably get a mod even better than PoP at some point, features and polish wise.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 22, 2020, 09:09:02 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.

I would cut off and burn my left nipple as a sacrifice for a Bannerlord Pendor mod.

Lol I think that'll be unnecessary, there isn't any documentation out rn, AND there's not REALLY any modding tools, that said I've already poked around some of the C# libraries--and combined with the functionality I've seen in some of the mods so far w/o any of the above I think we'll probably get a mod even better than PoP at some point, features and polish wise.

I suspect the PoP folks are planning to port it over to Bannerlord, bigger and better than ever.  So no need for sacrificing there.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 22, 2020, 09:10:22 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.

I would cut off and burn my left nipple as a sacrifice for a Bannerlord Pendor mod.

Lol I think that'll be unnecessary, there isn't any documentation out rn, AND there's not REALLY any modding tools, that said I've already poked around some of the C# libraries--and combined with the functionality I've seen in some of the mods so far w/o any of the above I think we'll probably get a mod even better than PoP at some point, features and polish wise.

I suspect the PoP folks are planning to port it over to Bannerlord, bigger and better than ever.  So no need for sacrificing there.

Too late *winces*. The offer stands.

Upvote for an arabesque noble named Ibid One-Nip? :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 22, 2020, 09:14:49 pm
Same feels. Also, the modding support is infinitely better--in a year, the mods out for Bannerlord will be insane.

I would cut off and burn my left nipple as a sacrifice for a Bannerlord Pendor mod.

Lol I think that'll be unnecessary, there isn't any documentation out rn, AND there's not REALLY any modding tools, that said I've already poked around some of the C# libraries--and combined with the functionality I've seen in some of the mods so far w/o any of the above I think we'll probably get a mod even better than PoP at some point, features and polish wise.

I suspect the PoP folks are planning to port it over to Bannerlord, bigger and better than ever.  So no need for sacrificing there.

Too late *winces*. The offer stands.

Upvote for an arabesque noble named Ibid One-Nip? :D

Well, I'd at least support a companion...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2020, 05:24:29 am
I dislike the companions in Bannerlord. They only seem to come in four personalities: Spurned Scholar, Woman Sticking It To The Man, Super Grimdark Edgy Murder Boi, and Too Good For This World Goody Two Shoes Hero Guy. I know, it doesn't matter much once they're in your party, so it's not like it takes away from the game. It's just bothersome when you see a new nickname in the tavern and it turns out it's just I Loot And Murder And Paint Myself In Blood Of Infants I've Killed While Jacking Off Because That's How We Do In The Dark Ages Angry Man #7.

The only one I'm fond of is the capitalist healer from Sturgia who basically said "fuck all this helping people in need and war and shit, I'm gonna go make money". Well, I like the Tragic Scholar types too, but I'm just leant toward that stereotype, so it doesn't count.

But on to actual mechanics, now that ice gotten the rant out of me: It seems you don't get all companions during the same playthrough any more, which is a shame, but since there's so many of them, I guess it makes sense. But does anyone know if they eventually start spawning more of them after a while? I spent all my last play through looking for a trader companion (I've only seen one before, the Azerai trader woman -- there was one Cartwheeler once that I guess could have been a trader but seemed more geared towards engineering, didn't look at their stats) but couldn't find anyone. I hope it was just bad luck and it's not the case that you can end up having say only combat focused companions available because no other types spawned when you started.

Also with all the thievy types abounding everywhere. I look forward to seeing the crime boss stuff be implemented. I suppose they might be for planting a boss of your own in cities?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Taricus on April 23, 2020, 05:28:24 am
A new wanderer spawns once every few weeks, and you can check the encyclopaedia on what wanderers are available. There's also a mod that enables them to be spawned quicker
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 23, 2020, 08:54:04 am
You can use https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/170 on a new campaign to get more potential companions. You can set it to simply spawn one of each template, or to spawn as many as you want. I use it to spawn one of each.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 23, 2020, 09:23:54 am
I generally find that after day 60 or w/e, I've at least got one of each template. Now, one may be cruel while the other doesn't have sky high stats, but if you need that scout or healer they're usually there.

I agree though. Compared to Warband's fixed companions (and the companion interactions) Bannerlord's companions seem stamped out of a mould that the randomized appearance and hand-written backstory doesn't do much to cover up.

Also can we not have 45 "the Wronged" female characters? I get it, it's 2020 but I feel like I'm being beaten over the head with it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 23, 2020, 09:40:32 am
companions, so far, as a whole feel like placeholders for now. i do imagine we'll need a big group of them once delegating parts of your clan/kingdom becomes more fleshed out and i can foresee either set companions (legendaries, uniques, etc) as an update or a mod alongside the random gens.
as an example, i can guess how crime boss delegation works; you take the existing notable gangsters turf and set up your own companion to become the city crime boss, thus replacing a former notable with one of your own making and guaranteeing good recruiting outcomes. i would not want to use a unique important companion for this and hence id throw one of the rando gens in there.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 23, 2020, 01:35:16 pm
I suspect the PoP folks are planning to port it over to Bannerlord, bigger and better than ever.  So no need for sacrificing there.

The most recent update to PoP was just last month, and here's what they had to say on Bannerlord:

Quote
We are only a few short ways away from the release of Early Access Bannerlord. Now I know what you're thinking here: are we going to mod PoP for Bannerlord?

Simple put: we don't know at this point. We don't have the mod tools that are to come with 'release' of the game (if early access counts as that).

We don't know how the set up will be with their module system like you see in Elder Scrolls game files or if it's in the EA release at the end of March.

We may have plans but we aren't at that point where we know for sure. I mean how can we not want Pendor in Bannerlord? It's too savory or awesome to NOT imagine. Maybe one day, if we are certain though. You all will know!

Also can we not have 45 "the Wronged" female characters? I get it, it's 2020 but I feel like I'm being beaten over the head with it.

I'm not sure they're weighted. I don't think I encountered any "wronged" folks, but a lot of Shieldmaidens. (Who are indeed quite capable in battle.) There's a pretty solid guide to the various titles up on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/g13gqh/all_bannerlord_wandererscompanions/). Also includes a brief summary of spawning mechanics here (https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/fx4sp7/all_companionswanderers_and_their_skills/fmtr5ym/?context=3).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2020, 05:05:45 pm
You can use https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/170 on a new campaign to get more potential companions. You can set it to simply spawn one of each template, or to spawn as many as you want. I use it to spawn one of each.

Danke gut

Campaign restarted
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: umiman on April 23, 2020, 05:25:36 pm
Here's an online Wanderer generator if you want to create your own custom characters

https://butterlord.com/wanderers

Pretty easy to use.

---------

I found out recently that Wanderers are not Companions. Wanderers are just slightly less generic mooks to fill out your party. Companions, coming later, will be like what they were in Warband with quests and stories and likes and romance, etc.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 23, 2020, 05:40:07 pm
So, does anyone know if the children born to other characters during the game can marry the player character's children.  Obviously not the character, as the character would be too old (max age to marry is 40 without mods).

Yeah, I always gathered that the Wanderers existed to fill in until they got around to creating Companions.  I wonder what will happen to the Wanderers once Companions are implemented.  I kinda like them, but I miss the free noob Companions that I could train up right.  With the cost of Wanderers, I actually expect them to pull their weight, but the side effect of that is that most of them are level 10 or so and thus past the quick-and-easy leveling stage.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on April 23, 2020, 05:45:39 pm
I wonder what will happen to the Wanderers once Companions are implemented.

i suspect we'll have both. companions, who may start lower level so you can train them into what you want but with a focus in one area and they have unique stories; wanderers, who start higher level and fill gaps needed in your clan/empire and are randomly generated and generic.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 23, 2020, 06:27:38 pm
I didnt even realize there was supposed to be a separate companion system!

Also my game keeps crashing on startup, even on launcher start sometimes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 23, 2020, 06:57:47 pm
Also my game keeps crashing on startup, even on launcher start sometimes.

I mean, if you install mods before there's official mod support.....
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 23, 2020, 07:07:09 pm
Also can we not have 45 "the Wronged" female characters? I get it, it's 2020 but I feel like I'm being beaten over the head with it.

Seems heavily RNG based. My first campaign I had a few of those. My current one has zero, and few female wanderers at all for that matter.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 23, 2020, 07:42:52 pm
I didnt even realize there was supposed to be a separate companion system!

Also my game keeps crashing on startup, even on launcher start sometimes.

Sounds like something is corrupted. I have had several weird issues with the game pop up - crashes, graphic glitches, etc. -  after updates. Try validating game files. I did it after this latest update and it found 17 files that needed to be replaced.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 23, 2020, 09:03:22 pm
I didnt even realize there was supposed to be a separate companion system!

Also my game keeps crashing on startup, even on launcher start sometimes.

Sounds like something is corrupted. I have had several weird issues with the game pop up - crashes, graphic glitches, etc. -  after updates. Try validating game files. I did it after this latest update and it found 17 files that needed to be replaced.

Probably a good idea to delete everything in your mods folder as well as any core files those mods have overwritten as well before verifying. From there, reinstall the mods a few at a time and test it. I also reccomend picking a version of the game and sticking with that, ignoring updates, until the EA has more content and stability.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 24, 2020, 11:27:07 am
Honestly I'd say don't install mods that overwrite core files. I only install mods that need to be enabled/disabled in the launcher. Then if I get a crash, I can simply disable my mods and see if it still happens.

I'm being deliberate in my mod not to do anything to break save compatibility and to make all the options fully modular. Every aspect of it can be toggled off, and if it's off it doesn't do anything at all. That way I can add/remove it to an existing save without issues, and toggle things on and off if anything happens. That way if a new update or another mod breaks one aspect of it it can just be turned off until some fix can be found for it. I also started adding null checks to all my variables, even the ones that shouldn't be able to be null lol. I already fixed one crash by adding a null check for member rosters of parties. I don't know how the person with the crash had a null member roster of one of their garrisons since all the code that would remove it just removes the whole party instead, but with all the mods out there? The core game doesn't even null check any of its member rosters, only the parties.

Looking at some of the mods out there with a decompiler leads to some facepalm moments, even for someone like me who barely knows C# (before this I just knew barely enough to edit some websites written in it). Dividing things by variables that could equal zero, or using Math.Pow on a number that can be negative.

For those who don't know, dividing by zero is bad - if done to a float it gives you infinity. And Math.Pow returns NaN if used on a negative number. And NaN is treated as an infinite value too. Stuff like this is how mods end up jacking your skills up to 1023.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 24, 2020, 11:52:16 am
I only have module style mods.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 24, 2020, 09:32:38 pm
Marriage in Calradia:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 24, 2020, 09:49:10 pm
I think the gestation period of Calradians is like 4 months. I got married and had 9 kids 3 years later.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 24, 2020, 10:50:17 pm
I like to imagine that humans in this alternate universe are actually just squishy pink amphibians, and lay clutches of eggs.

On a side note: Wtf even is mounted one-handed combat in this game, my God! v_V
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 25, 2020, 12:11:09 am
Well I think an ingame year is like <80 days? So yuh.

Also mounted one handed combat can bit a bit hit or miss.

ALSO, after a very painful process of elimination I've fixed my mods. Ugh.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2020, 03:16:26 am
I like to imagine that humans in this alternate universe are actually just squishy pink amphibians, and lay clutches of eggs.

On a side note: Wtf even is mounted one-handed combat in this game, my God! v_V

Two reasons: so you can hit their elite troops with blunt objects instead of sharp and random them off for cash

And because cutting down fleeing enemies with your sabre as you drive them before your horde is more satisfying than lancing them
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 25, 2020, 08:48:47 am
You just need an absurdly long 1h weapon for mounted combat. With blacksmithing you can make 1h swords with 131 reach lol.

Ofcourse you can also make 2h polearms that can be thrusted 1h if you need a shield and swung 2h for crazy slashing damage and 275 reach...

My 275 reach glaive just looks silly being swung. The tip sometimes just scrapes through the ground and the shaft kills my target.


-edit-
Reading the steam forums after the update is kind of funny. There must have been 50 threads about crashing due to people updating their game and just blindly launching with 20 broken outdated mods and then blaming the game for the crash. Even on fully released games you can't get a new patch and just expect a huge list of mods to all work as expected still. When 1.2.0 was a beta, everyone using Bannerlord Tweaks were complaining about the same issues but with less frequency. Now 1.2 hits the main branch and everyone is still using bannerlord tweaks and other mods and going "game is broke!"
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 25, 2020, 12:48:36 pm
Huh. Wow. Went from doing merc work for the Southern Empire for a while to deciding to just become a vassal.
Not long after we go to war with the Khuzait, and capture the city of Arganon from them.

The Empress, in her wisdom, has decided to bestow it upon me despite the majority of the lords being against it.

So...yeah. Guess I get to have a holder much earlier than I'd expected.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 26, 2020, 12:52:21 am
Huh. Wow. Went from doing merc work for the Southern Empire for a while to deciding to just become a vassal.
Not long after we go to war with the Khuzait, and capture the city of Arganon from them.

The Empress, in her wisdom, has decided to bestow it upon me despite the majority of the lords being against it.

So...yeah. Guess I get to have a holder much earlier than I'd expected.

Relation is sometimes key. I use a mod that implements the Warband style of relation boosts from helping lords in battle. My rep with most of the noble in my faction is 20-100 (100  with Empress Rhagea), and I get every other fief, with Rhagaea and a large number of lords supporting me.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2020, 05:38:33 am
Would you mind if I'm lazy and ask for a link?

I've been thinking that relationships are a thing where the game is a bit lacking as is. And I don't mean the meaningfulness of relationships and stuff ingame, i just mean I don't understand how you're supposed to be able to even collect friendship points right now. You some times get one or two for joining a battle, but that seems very rare.

I just want to be noticed
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 26, 2020, 06:32:06 am
Would you mind if I'm lazy and ask for a link?

I've been thinking that relationships are a thing where the game is a bit lacking as is. And I don't mean the meaningfulness of relationships and stuff ingame, i just mean I don't understand how you're supposed to be able to even collect friendship points right now. You some times get one or two for joining a battle, but that seems very rare.

I just want to be noticed

I think you're just supposed to bribe them.  Not sure if you can always bribe with dinars, but can certainly do so with important prisoners (nobles).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2020, 06:53:46 am
I tried bribing with thousands of dinars once but it didn't change their relationship. If I have to spend a hundred thousand gold to get a point it just doesn't seem worth it
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 26, 2020, 08:18:19 am
I think you're supposed to solve issues for them, but they hardly ever have any. Maybe once they add in new ones it will be easier.

Right now it's easier to gain relation by being their enemy and killing their army repeatedly while letting them go.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 26, 2020, 08:49:56 pm
I just want to be noticed

Fighting Together Relationship, the mod with such a literal a name that you would never find it from a google search.

https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/463

Meanwhile, in Mesopotamia, some Thirteenth Warrior shit is going down...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on April 26, 2020, 11:31:15 pm
I tried bribing with thousands of dinars once but it didn't change their relationship. If I have to spend a hundred thousand gold to get a point it just doesn't seem worth it

Just unlock the ability to purchase towns and gift them their own fiefs and the money they give to take them over and over until they love you.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on April 26, 2020, 11:39:35 pm
I tried bribing with thousands of dinars once but it didn't change their relationship. If I have to spend a hundred thousand gold to get a point it just doesn't seem worth it

Just unlock the ability to purchase towns and gift them their own fiefs and the money they give to take them over and over until they love you.

Nah, dude. Traits take eternity to unlock in this game. Just cheat with mods. :P

If it's canon in Warband, God/Odin/Allah/Tengra (did I miss any?) condones it!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 27, 2020, 12:57:41 am
Fighting Together Relationship AND Killing Bandits Raises Relations are two great mods that make alotta sense.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 27, 2020, 07:23:16 am
I just want to be noticed

Fighting Together Relationship, the mod with such a literal a name that you would never find it from a google search.

https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/463

Thank you! I appreciate it.


Fighting Together Relationship AND Killing Bandits Raises Relations are two great mods that make alotta sense.

I was thinking of using KBRR when I came upon it some time ago, but I just kill so many bandits... It wouldn't feel fair.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 27, 2020, 08:47:03 am
It only raises relations by like or 1 or 2 points in (I think one) random nearby village or town.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on May 07, 2020, 05:49:19 pm
Looks like there was a bug with lords where you often didn't get relation with them after helping in a fight. Fixed in the most recent patch.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on May 08, 2020, 08:06:50 pm
Been a while since I played. Did I never notice before or did they add daily wages for companions now?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on May 08, 2020, 09:20:34 pm
Might be new-ish? I remember noticing it at one point, but I'm not sure if it was always a thing or not.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Taricus on May 08, 2020, 09:29:41 pm
Yeah that was added in the latest update
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on May 09, 2020, 07:31:05 am
*grumbles* ...it's not like I already paid them hundreds of days worth of pay up front...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2020, 01:39:50 pm
Kinda looks like they may have reduced initial recruitment costs a bit though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on May 10, 2020, 06:41:08 am
I find the need to have multiple parties in conflict with the desire to have companions in your party, since you get new companion slots so slowly with Clan Rank. As I understand it, Clan Roles only apply to people in your party? Between a Scout, a Surgeon, a Blacksmith, a dude running a caravan, I have like one slot to play with for an additional party member. But that seems to be the only way to really start fielding an army because Clan Rank 4. And that's not even including sending them out do quests or leaving them places to manage them.

Luckily the cash flow thing seems pretty easy to manage. Two shops that are doing well and a caravan and you can just sit back and make fistfuls full of denars a day. Fighting loot and trading supplement it pretty well. I don't even really bother doing trading myself anymore.

They also messed with metal prices something fierce. Iron Ore at source sights and cities is pretty expensive now, like 40/unit easily. And yet conversely, the ceiling on what all metal goes for seems to have been set really low. I haven't seen steel go for more than 150/unit and that's an exceptional price now. Iron is like 40 to 100. I've seen steel and iron go for the same price before. Really puts a kybosh on the metal profits game, At places where metal sources are nearby, I'm seeing bars of iron sell for 5 denars. The ore somehow is 1000 times more valuable than the refined bar. I'm sitting on stacks and stacks of everything looking for a good pirce but it's not really worth selling most places now.

Battania is also completely at peace with everyone now. I wonder what the nobles do with their time besides tourneys when they're not making war? By the looks of it they're all hording influence since they're not using it constantly during war time.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on May 10, 2020, 10:20:38 am
You'd think the solution to metal would be 'it's heavy and difficult to transport large amounts of it' rather than 'it's dirt cheap when smelted but expensive in ore form'.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Nelia Hawk on March 21, 2021, 12:18:57 am
so this got a multiplayer mod now... with 1200 people per server.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XSvIVGTweM
https://www.moddb.com/mods/bannerlord-online
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 21, 2021, 12:30:19 pm
Woah, definitely got to check this out. It's got a full campaign map???

EDIT: Okay just a quick little update, it's pretty early stages, but within a few updates I can see this exploding even more than it is rn. They already have really good co-op combat, farming/workshops, arena fights, trading (from what I hear)--if the CRPG team doesnt get off their ass this will probably be just a huge as that, if not bigger as it's got an incredible framework and, dare I say, better multiplayer than the base game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on April 01, 2021, 12:58:22 am
Hey that looks pretty cool, I haven't modded Bannerlord yet or tried the multiplayer. Can players make or take over factions and territory?

Has anyone tried the Bannerlord editor? I poked around the documentation to see if I had the skills to make at least a basic conversion but it mentioned scripting and I fled immediately.

Is the editor pretty easy to use to whip up a basic conversion or would I have to learn to code first for the following example? For example a very basic conversion that changes the map around (settlements of all types numbers, names, location, basic stuff without touching economics for now) and allows factions to be added and changed, such as troop types, nobles and equipment lists?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Fowler on April 01, 2021, 07:24:19 am
I have been planning a purchase for a long time, but I still doubt it. Can anyone say if it is much better than the original?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: dehimos on April 01, 2021, 07:41:49 am
My opinion:
- Better than the original: yes
- Better than original with mods: no

Most of my good memories with Warband are from using really good mods. Still I really enjoy Bannerlord because of the new mechanics (199 hours).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mkok on April 01, 2021, 09:15:26 am
I havent played the few latest versions, but it has both good improvements as well as improvements that are not so good. Overall the game is better, but the whole "multiple generations" thing simply does not go well with mount and blade, and their attempt to force it to work just made the game kind of bad. Maybe with a lot more work they could get it down, but at least in the versions I played there was a serious issue with level cap. Basically if you do pretty much anything it will give you levels in that thing. BUT there is a limit to how many cumulative levels you can have. What this means? Lets say you want to play as a crossbowman, then you must NEVER use any other weapon then crossbow in battle, if you as much as fire a single arrow from a bow, or swing at an enemy with an axe for a single time this will permanently lock higher levels of your crossbowmanship. Or at least until you max out levels, then this does not matter. Authors said that without level cap each character would be the same, but considering how long it takes to get to the next character the game is long over before that happens, and something tells me that if we start burning through characters at a pace fast enough to matter then it will be so fast each character will feel just the same...

But overall I would agree with dehimos, it is better then original with no mods, but not better then original with mods.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 01, 2021, 11:29:17 am
the multiplayer, however, is considerably worse than Warband imo

Regardless there's some overall refinement in combat and a lot of fleshing out of the mechanics--to be fair I can see the appeal in that and the logic, but part of Warband's FUN is how simple is it, mechanically speaking. Don't get me wrong, mods that added new features or changed the campaign mechanics proved a lot more could be done, BUT what TW decided to add to Bannerlord... wasn't that stuff at all.

Boats.
Bounties.
Farming.
Hunting.
Customizable troops.
et al. (I mean there's tons and tons more stuff)

All the efforts people made to make Warband feel like a more lived-in world and to present that and showcase it--TW really just didn't pick up on any of it.

EDIT: Im not trying to shit on Bannerlord and with the tools TW gave us the mods are gonna eventually be 10x better than Warbands, but they chose to go in a direction that was disappointing--in hindsight.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2021, 11:43:15 am
So, from the perspective of someone that didn't do a lot of Mount and Blade modding.....

Bannerlord IS a straight upgrade. What people are complaining about are the lessons Taleworlds didn't learn and the things they didn't adopt from the modding scene.

But straight up: it's the same game with a much shinier coat of paint, better UI in places, and more features. Way more character customization. Way more detailed skills and perks (when they're actually working, at any rate *cough*) Sieges. Bloodlines and babies. More ownership and ways to make profit. Better Party management. Better "Clan" and Faction management. Lots of gear variety and looks per faction. Customizable weapons (not that this honestly makes a huge impact on the game especially early on.) Combat looks and performs about 50% less janky than Warband.

Is it disappointing to at times literally see M&B Warband underneath a new skin? Sure. A lot of their marketing material from a couple years ago doesn't pan out. Some of their structured stuff, like the Thieves stuff in towns, still looks like M&B with awkward scene transitions and no real cinematic quality to it. Sieges last I played can still be a big mess but at least there's more places for your troops to attack then 200+ guys all trying to pile up the same ladder.

So TLDR: If Vanilla Mount & Blade Warband was "good enough" for you, then I don't see Bannerlord being any greater disappointment than that game.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on April 01, 2021, 02:32:36 pm
I agree with you Nenjin, to a point. I hardly ever played vanilla warband, so for me, Bannerlord in its current state scratches just enough of that Mount and Blade itch to make me want to go play modded warband again. But then I actually go play modded warband and the basic gameplay systems are so much clunkier than Bannerlord that it's just frustrating to play because I want the smoothness of Bannerlord. I've pretty much resigned myself to waiting to play any Mount and Blade until Bannerlord gets some good mods, because neither is really satisfying right now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 01, 2021, 03:26:38 pm
I know the feels. It's hard to go back to modded Warband when you've experienced the cleanliness and slickness of Bannerlord. But Bannerlord hasn't raised its game to the point it doesn't look, feel and play like a Taleworlds game, with all the generic mass produced content that implies.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 01, 2021, 04:53:00 pm
Bannerlord IS a straight upgrade. What people are complaining about are the lessons Taleworlds didn't learn and the things they didn't adopt from the modding scene.

For the record, Taleworlds did take several things from the modding scene, polish them, and add them to Bannerlord.  The whole smithing stuff originated in one of my favorite mods, for example.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Kanil on April 01, 2021, 06:26:16 pm
I mean, I haven't played Bannerlord since the first week or so, so I don't know if the system is less cancerous now... but the whole smithing mechanic is a great example of something I think actually makes the game worse than Warband. It's not fun to have to cart back every damn piece of trash you find from a battle and then manually break it down for smithing XP to get the shiny weapons.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on April 01, 2021, 10:35:37 pm
Smithing is really easy now. In fact you can powerlevel with it easily up to level 15 or more, I dunno.

The only constraint on it is the smithing endurance that limits how many things you can do, or if you don't have companions with the refining perks.

Crafting javelins is the easiest way. The harpoon head is best, but I did menavlion head javelins as I had that unlocked. You gain like 30 to 60 points in smithing from crafting the first one at 0 smithing, and it only takes low tier metals and wood to do it. When you smelt them, you also gain a lot of smithing xp though not as much as forging. It returns metal the tier under what is required to make them, so less refining is necessary.

These javelins also sell for over 100k denars because of their huge damage, as the heavier heads increase their damage due to heavier item weight. I think smithing xp is related to item value, thus you get massive xp for them.

I think the crafted weapon pricing and skill gain is set this way for early access as you can make really awesome weapons quickly and powerlevel all your characters. I put their companion's first skillpoints in smithing to raise the cap, after that it's free attribute points and skill points for what they actually are doing. It can also be completely ignored if you don't want to cheese easy denars and xp. It does make it harder to level in other ways as higher levels require more xp, and smithing gets you at least 15 or so by itself.

As for smelting loot, it's not profitable but it can get you some metal for refining into expensive crafted items. It also unlocks weapon pieces sometimes, I think less often than smithing an item of the same value.

I have one (or two if I want to specialize in piercing instead of slashing because might as well) person take the smithing perks and all the companions take the refining perks, with one having the refine iron ore perk instead of charcoal, as charcoal is more useful.
Spoiler: Large screenshots (click to show/hide)
I also made a large cartoony mallet for capturing prisoners and anthropomorphic mice.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Calradian Polo
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 01, 2021, 11:13:54 pm
That mallet is hilarious!

Also, idk modded warband is still v familiar to me, it's clunky, but like... it works most of the time? Crashes happen, but very rarely does a modded mechanic not work. That said I still play it regularly so, ymmv I guess.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Kanil on April 02, 2021, 03:17:54 am
It can also be completely ignored if you don't want to cheese easy denars and xp. It does make it harder to level in other ways as higher levels require more xp, and smithing gets you at least 15 or so by itself.

Assuming I've understood your post correctly, this is the problem I have with Bannerlord in general.

I don't want to have to grind out smithing to level up my characters, I want to go around beating people with swords. Warband rewarded you for fighting stuff, because fighting stuff was the fun thing to do in the game. Bannerlord rewards you for grinding out smithing and other things that are... not as fun as beating people with swords.

I kinda feel that's never going to change, and in this regard, Warband will always be the superior game. That probably, eventually, won't be enough to outweigh all the things Bannerlord does better, but...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 02, 2021, 10:26:39 am
Bannerlord doesn't reward you for riding around hitting people? Wot? The other 6+ skills related to combat that go up from doing combat isn't rewarding?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Paul on April 02, 2021, 10:34:56 am
You can level up plenty from fighting in this game. The only reason smithing is so rewarding is it's broken and unbalanced. Without the broken recipes that produce super valuable things from cheap materials and give you crazy amounts of XP, smithing is an awful grind.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 02, 2021, 10:40:58 am
I mean I'm not even sure what all the focus points and shit do. I wish they'd just have something more like the old system.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 02, 2021, 01:23:49 pm
I agree they made it somewhat overly complicated for what they were trying to achieve.

But here's how it works:

Skill caps for each skill are based on the "stat" they reference. So like, Smithing is under Endurance. How high your Smithing skill can go is capped by what your Endurance currently is.

Focus points both increase how fast you acquire skill points for performing a skill AND raise the skill cap ceiling.

So let's say you're maxing out Endurance. So your skill cap for Blacksmithing is quite high. Then you add focus points on top of it, the cap goes up further and it skills up faster.

It becomes very clear on skills you are using constantly, like Riding. Put a few focus points into Riding and you'll max out your riding skill far, far faster than other skills.

The intent of focus points is to help skills you don't have the stats for still level up to a reasonable degree in a reasonable amount of time. Or for ensuring the things that you're actually making your primary stats/skills go up very quickly.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 02, 2021, 02:32:32 pm
Yeah but they could have just made level ups give you attribute points instead of focus points
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 02, 2021, 05:26:43 pm
Their system is a little finer grain than that. The Attribute/Skill/Focus system lets you skill up in different areas at different rates while limiting the ability to powerlevel too many things.

That said, I'm not sure it functionally works any better than a level-up system does. Or even a fallout style system with focused skills that level up faster than everything else.

At least as of a month or two ago when I played last I found it to be overly complicated for what it actually does for the player.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Kanil on April 02, 2021, 08:28:46 pm
Bannerlord doesn't reward you for riding around hitting people? Wot? The other 6+ skills related to combat that go up from doing combat isn't rewarding?

Let me try again. Say you get into a fight, it's fun, whatever. Afterwards, you can loot some weapons. You can either leave them there for nothing, bring them back to town and sell them for a paltry sum, or bring them back to town and break them down for smithing materials and use those to get XP and level up your characters.

One of these options is a lot more tedious and unenjoyable than the other two, but is the "best" way to play the game. You can either do the tedious thing, or you can choose to weaken your characters.

The game encourages you to do things you don't want to, in order to level up your characters.


Edit: And I will say, smithing was a much, much faster/more rewarding way to level up your characters on release than fighting actually was. I don't know if that's still the case, I sure as hell hope it isn't.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 03, 2021, 12:23:24 am
Or you sell all that stuff and buy a shop, start a caravan. I start smithing mid game when I can buy lots of fuel and have enough party members to smelt down a lot of stuff. From just smelting I didn't notice a huge boost in level gain, and didn't really bother grinding out crafting. So it's kinda a non-issue to me. But I get the idea that an optional system that's super efficient but cheesy and unfun can stick in one's craw, and ruin whatever else the game offers by knowing it's out there. At least in Bannerlord's case, I'm not bothered by it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2021, 06:38:19 am
It's not like you'll ever have enough crafting energy to melt more than three weapons per character either (and waiting in cities is for suckers, you could be out catching more parties in the meanwhile).

It doesn't feel very noble to have most of your income rely on caravans and businesses though. Taxes seem completely insignificant.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on April 04, 2021, 12:51:54 am
I haven't made a Kingdom or joined one, just running around hunting small bandit groups and looters to skill up companions in fighting first so I don't know about taxes yet.

You can still level up and stuff from fighting. Smithing isn't necessary at all, it just is a way to powerlevel and get the best gear if you want. It could probably use some balancing before EA ends but I'd just completely ignore it if I want to start fighting at level 1 with starter equipment or do a trader type game where the smithing would break the player's side of the economy.

I have heard on the steam discussion forums that paying clans to join your Kingdom is in the millions of denars though right now but that's the only thing that I can think of where smithing would be almost necessary unless there are bigger incomes to find once you are a noble, and not just a jump ahead to level 15 or 20 character + companions with great smithed weapons and the best armor denars can buy.

I do wish smithing fatigue or whatnot was regained (slower) while travelling. If you smith stuff and then chase around bandits for days, you still have to rest to do any more smithing, which forces you to sit and wait rather than hunting bandits or doing quests.

It would also be great to have a warehouse or stockpile and order my caravan to collect a resource, in smithing's case hardwood or charcoal or both. Oh, and a charcoal maker I could supply with hardwood for charcoal. Having all the companions take charcoal making provides enough for provide a supply, but then I'm waiting for their stamina to recover instead of chasing bandits around...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Farce on April 07, 2021, 04:26:44 am
Quote
Smithing isn't necessary at all, it's just an easy way to get shit you want!
It's BORING.  It's BORING and EASY.  And being EASY means it's a simple and effective way to do a thing, which in turn means most people do the thing.  Players optimizing the fun out of their own playing is a well-noted phenomenon, it shouldn't be controveral that people do smithing to try and level up even though it's shitty.

I haven't really played since release but levelling up was so goddamn slow and tedious that I absolutely did smithing to try and powerlevel so I could play around with the cool new perks and stuff.  Because I hate joining kingdoms and have never had positive experiences joining a kingdom as a mercenary, all I really had were trading, kicking bandits around, and smithing, and smithing was fastest and not as tedious.

Also, by kicking bandits around, I mostly mean kicking looters around, because Bannerlord suffers from what most of Mount & Blade suffers from - a lack of dudes to beat up if you're not in a war or I guess a raider.  Even when I max out my troop cap, I'm still not even remotely a threat to most lords, so even if I want to jump into vassal bullshit it's kinda just, like, "this is almost certainly suicide!" but then bandit fights become more of a chore than anything, because there's no danger of you losing them.

One of the biggest issues I had with the versions of Bannerlord I played were how almost everything had such obnoxiously high skillpoint reqs.  Almost every horse beyond the shitty starter ones needed huge numbers for riding.  All the cool weapons did too.  Raising your numbers was a long and tedious process because you had to work for every goddamn single point increase and you probably needed like fuckin 50 or whatever.  Like.  I thought the starting horses that I could get were sluggish and felt shitty, but in order to even try out new ones I had to just ride them around and fucking endure how much I disliked them until the game deigned to allow me to attempt to improve my experience with it.  Warband, you just go do whatever, get some xp, then level up and bang.

Like I GUESS it's a more realistic design but also I don't care about that, I just wanna make pretend that I'm a cool sword guy making his way in a tough harsh world by being a cool sword guy.  I like assigning points and seeing my numbers go up, I don't want to ACTUALLY fucking struggle with dull swords and slow horses.

I guess this is even less valid than the rest of my bitching but also man I hate the even-earlier-medieval aesthetic.  Fucking -everybody- is just a guy in a shirt.  The big cool guys are just guys with the bare edges of their metal shirts sticking out from under their regular shirts.  It's also like realistic now I guess instead of being shoddy analogues to stuff so everything just feels kinda samey?  I knew who the Nords were vs the Vaegir, and such.  I absolutely can't tell you what the diff is between the Battanians and the Vlandians are, they're just the west forest guys and the north forest guys to me.  Their rabble have shirts and trash weapons, their higher-tier guys are dudes in mail with a surcoat or someshit over it.  That might also just be the Imperials???  The only reason I even sorta know the Imperials is that in multi the menavlion was fucking obscenely strong for like no reason.  I was able to score moderately-decently with my shitty Hawaiian ping with them.  Ugh I wish I could be less chud-y about not liking the aesthetic but fuck that Renaissance-style armoring just looks and feels so cool.  Breastplates, silly hats, etc.  Whatever, I'm rambling really hard I guess.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 07, 2021, 09:26:27 am
My biggest gripe is that it's a 50+ GB download.  I'm probably never going to have enough free space to reinstall it.  It was a bit fun a year ago, can't say anything has encouraged me to try and find the space to try it again.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Cthulhu on April 07, 2021, 09:59:44 am
My problem with the game is that it sucks.  Warband sucked too but it had enough high points that you'd push through the terrible shit.  This one doesn't.  Eurojank is a tightrope and Bannerlord falls off the wrong side.  Was too irritated by weird decisions and frustrating moments to keep powering into the higher levels.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ndkid on April 07, 2021, 10:13:06 am
Quote
Smithing isn't necessary at all, it's just an easy way to get shit you want!
Like I GUESS it's a more realistic design
I'm pretty sure there's nothing realistic about skill caps. If they wanted to make you swing a difficult weapon slowly, or have you get thrown off horses if your riding skill isn't high enough, cool, that sounds like versimilitude/realism. Just saying "you can't swing $weapon, n00b" is the opposite of realism.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 07, 2021, 10:21:12 am
I seem to recall the only place skill caps matter for weapons is bows, crossbows and mounts. I think all melee and thrown doesn't care what your current skill level is? Been a while, I might be misremembering.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on April 07, 2021, 11:14:18 am
At least the last time I played I didn't find any of that to be an issue. The skill restrictions were still there, but generally only mattered for super expensive stuff. Especially if you started your character out with skills that you wanted (like horsemanship or archery).

I can only really think of one instance where I got a horse as loot that I simply couldn't use any time soon, and even then one of my companions could use it, so it wasn't a total loss for me. And I feel like riding skill raises pretty quickly these days.

Smithing also got nerfed a good bit at one point, and I no longer find too much need for it. Though I like making stuff, so I always make at least one of my companions a smith. But it's longer the must-do strategy for easy XP and money that it once was.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 08, 2021, 04:24:37 am
Multiplayer is pretty good though, but I still find myself using warbands instead or napolic wars :I

Oh - if you guys didn't try out the "1000 players on the map" mod, I gave it a try and its just so strange, like playing a Bannerlord-MMO. Dozens of people wiggling across a field, farming virtual foods for 3 Cash a action, its cute. Felt to grindy to continue however and I am a guy that played CRPG for 300 hours. (Man that was good back then).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 08, 2021, 10:26:52 am
Bannerlord Online is developing nicely. Hopefully it gives cRPG a run for its money, although given the difference in how far along in development they are, BO might end up supplanting cRPG.

I do not enjoy vanilla multiplayer sadly, I think it's a huge step down from Warband.

On skillcaps: Ambivalence. I don't hate the idea, but potentially becoming OP is yknow a very enjoyable aspect of M&B-esque games. It's just an unnecessary addition. Fluff, as it were.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 08, 2021, 10:47:41 am
My problem with the game is that it sucks.  Warband sucked too but it had enough high points that you'd push through the terrible shit.  This one doesn't.  Eurojank is a tightrope and Bannerlord falls off the wrong side.  Was too irritated by weird decisions and frustrating moments to keep powering into the higher levels.

Or mod the character file.  On Warband, it was a text file where you could just add another zero after the experience, change the skills from 0 to 10, change the denars from 100 to 100,000.  After a while, I never bothered trying to turn Joe Nobody into a King: I just created Hercules and grabbed what I wanted.

Also, my experience from Bannerlord one year ago was that the developers weren't able to balance out the skill/exp system properly.  Anyone playing lately (2021) know if that is still an issue?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on April 08, 2021, 10:55:17 am
No idea with bannerlord, but i remember on warband there was an editing that was recommended to never do : editing your character level.

People had reported that character level was apparently one of the ingredient in the AI decision making, so if you gave yourself a too high level, you would notice that no AI army would ever leave their castles to fight your army anymore, leading into an utterly boring campaign.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 09, 2021, 02:20:14 am
No idea with bannerlord, but i remember on warband there was an editing that was recommended to never do : editing your character level.

People had reported that character level was apparently one of the ingredient in the AI decision making, so if you gave yourself a too high level, you would notice that no AI army would ever leave their castles to fight your army anymore, leading into an utterly boring campaign.

I never had that problem, from what I recall.  Of course, editing character level was always guessing, as you couldn't edit the level directly, just your xp.  So I was never much past level 30, which is less than most AI lords and probably didn't trigger that behavior.

Besides, what is so boring about a campaign of siege warfare?  :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on April 09, 2021, 09:38:35 am
I guess if you're wanting to go the cheating path, i guess you would then probably have a character one-shotting everything and able to resisting thousand of arrows between his eyes, so maybe siege castle being also too easy would probably be a bit boring too :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 09, 2021, 02:17:15 pm
I guess if you're wanting to go the cheating path, i guess you would then probably have a character one-shotting everything and able to resisting thousand of arrows between his eyes, so maybe siege castle being also too easy would probably be a bit boring too :D

How is one-shotting everyting and being able to resist thousands of arrows boring?  :P

It's also an inaccurate depiction of the battle system of M&B: Warband.  Even the best of armor can be penetrated by ranged fire (bolts, arrows).  Eventually, those 0-2 point damage with the occasional critical hit adds up to player death.

The boring part is lining up the army of crossbows and waiting all night for them to win the siege.  Using the Nords to rush the walls is the more fun but bloody option.
Getting the army trained up is the real grind, which is where the level 35 training 10 character comes in.  Otherwise, day 1 noob with tons of gold can wreck things.  Hence why mods that allow the purchase of large number of elite troops are "broken".
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on April 10, 2021, 02:17:01 am
I guess if you're wanting to go the cheating path, i guess you would then probably have a character one-shotting everything and able to resisting thousand of arrows between his eyes, so maybe siege castle being also too easy would probably be a bit boring too :D

How is one-shotting everyting and being able to resist thousands of arrows boring?  :P

It's also an inaccurate depiction of the battle system of M&B: Warband.  Even the best of armor can be penetrated by ranged fire (bolts, arrows).  Eventually, those 0-2 point damage with the occasional critical hit adds up to player death.
Not inaccurate depiction if you're cheating, because if you cheat with the ones that are built-in the game you can also heal yourself with a simple couple of key press, so basically it's not a thousand arrows you can resist but technically an infinite amount.  Though i'm not sure what i am arguing about :D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 10, 2021, 07:15:51 pm
I've never used the heal cheat.  Guess I have principles.  ;D
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on April 18, 2021, 03:59:52 pm
So it's been bugging me a bit...

Is there any reason to use a horseman's/cavalry/knights shield rather than an infantry one?  (Even while mounted...)

My search could not find any information about this.  The advantage of the infantry shields - like the basic kite shield - appears to be more coverage.  They also tend to be a bit cheaper (not that that matters much in the long run) and have a bit more durability.  The downside of the infantry shields is usually more weight but that does not seem like a consideration while mounted - although paradoxically it lends a reason to use a mounted shield while on foot.  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 18, 2021, 04:43:19 pm
Some shields can't be used while mounted.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on April 18, 2021, 06:18:08 pm
Sure but most can.  And many have the same hit points, and the same speed, as the cavalry/mounted/knights/horsemans versions and yet they are bigger. 

As an example compare the battered kite shield to the battered horseman's kite shield.  They are both tier 1 with 82 speed.  The non-horseman version has in extra 5 hitpoints (175 vs. 170).  It is also somewhat cheaper (98 vs. 114 in the town I'm looking at right now, ymmv) and has substantially greater coverage.  The only downside is that it weighs somewhat more 4.2 vs. 3.6 - but that only matters if you are on foot.  So there is NO reason to use the horseman's kite shield on horseback!  On foot you'll be a bit slower so there is some argument for using the horseman's version if you are not on a horse.  ???  (Not that it matters but sometimes they are exactly the same weight, removing even this marginal 'advantage' for use on foot.)

By the way I'm not cherry-picking this was just the one I had at hand.  There a quite a few shields which follow the same pattern.  Why would I trade greater protection/more durability/cheaper for something labeled horseman/cavalry/knight/mounted - when mounted? 
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on April 19, 2021, 08:58:46 am
Just pointing out this was a problem back in Warband, at least, if not also in Native.  It's not Bannerlord's fault.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sharp on April 19, 2021, 01:09:59 pm
It's a good point. Weight should make an effect when you are mounted, sort of weird to have a fully armoured turtle still go full speed on a tiny pony.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on April 19, 2021, 04:29:56 pm
Just pointing out this was a problem back in Warband, at least, if not also in Native.  It's not Bannerlord's fault.

My memory is that in Warband (at least) mounted shields were both faster and had greater durability than the infantry shields, in general.  I don't see any problem, in either version, of not letting some shields be used on horseback.

It's a good point. Weight should make an effect when you are mounted, sort of weird to have a fully armoured turtle still go full speed on a tiny pony.

Yeah, it is a bit strange, horseracing fans are appalled. 
I also think it should be somewhat more awkward to use a heavy shield on horseback - in terms of game mechanic meaning less speed? - at least beyond a certain weight/size threshold.

I was mainly checking to see if I was missing something. Like if there was a hidden rarely known modifier, or if shields don't have hitboxs which follow their visual size (for example).  And of course to vent a little...  ;)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on April 19, 2021, 05:39:41 pm
With all the constant rebalancing of armor and weapons per faction that is going on....I wouldn't be surprised if it's also related to that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on June 17, 2021, 11:35:44 pm
There are new beta patch notes, here is one of interest to discussions in this thread a page or two back:

Crafting
Added a new feature named Crafting Orders which can be accessed via the "Enter Smithy" game menu option in towns. It allows players to craft weapons for nobles and notables with open orders. Consequently, weapon crafting has been split into two modes: Crafting Orders and Free Build.
Fulfilling crafting orders will grant you with crafting experience and research points needed to unlock new parts, in addition to a gold reward and relationship gain with the noble/notable based on the value of the crafted item.
After taking an order, you'll need to create a weapon design that satisfies the stated requirements. Exceeding expectations or underdelivering comes with its own bonuses and penalties, such as an increase or reduction of the gold reward.
Relationship gains from Crafting Orders need to be unlocked with perks.
The crafting experience and research points needed to unlock new parts gains received from the "Free Build" have been greatly reduced.
We will continue to evaluate the values of items produced via the crafting process.

Spoiler: Full notes (click to show/hide)

As to the shields, I would guess it could be a placeholder for stats for now. For example there is a really cheap shield that appears to have great statistics, the Light Cavalry Shield or something. I mostly just give companions other shields for flavor for now, otherwise I give them that one since it looks better on paper without knowing how shield stats are used in relation to skills and perks and whatnot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sensei on June 18, 2021, 12:55:03 am
So have they got around to fixing some of the perks that were outright non-functional, EG the one that lets you use full-size bows on horseback?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Android on June 18, 2021, 12:53:45 pm
So have they got around to fixing some of the perks that were outright non-functional, EG the one that lets you use full-size bows on horseback?

That particular one is fixed. Some other perks are still non-functional, but the description tells you if it isnt working now as well.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 18, 2021, 01:18:33 pm
Keep meaning to reinstall this but I need another SSD because games are so frickin' huge now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on June 18, 2021, 06:36:32 pm
Keep meaning to reinstall this but I need another SSD because games are so frickin' huge now.

Yeah, this latest update has me thinking the same thing.  I'd like to reinstall it, but I just don't know where I'll find the space.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Glloyd on June 20, 2021, 01:21:27 pm
Yeah, and unfortunately, in its current state Bannerlord has painfully long loading times on HDDs, even in vanilla. When you add mods to the equation, it gets even worse, especially given the frequency of loading screens in Bannerlord. It's very strange that the recommended specs don't include an SSD, because I wouldn't really consider it worth playing on an HDD, especially a slower, older one.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on June 21, 2021, 02:50:44 pm
I was actually playing BL on an HDD before I rebuilt my PC on an SSD main drive. Having been doing all my gaming on HDD up until about 6 months ago, I wouldn't call BL's loading times beyond the pale on a spinning platter drive.

What really got me was that subsequent loads without restarting the game would get slower and slower as time went on, until as it was loading the game the background music would become pixelated and crackly sounding. Pretty awful.

I haven't even tried it on my SSD but I imagine that will be better...along with a bunch of other stuff.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on July 04, 2021, 07:53:24 am
I tried the 1.6e beta and the crafting economy is a bit better. It's more difficult to reach higher smithing since you are limited to the orders, and the high skill orders are not selectable. I think that's a positive though since smithing was easy to powerlevel with. There are still massive value orders for high skill smiths, paying over 100k frequently for a two handed weapon (because two handed maces are limited to the two hammer heads, if you unlock the better one the orders for it are sometimes 11k)

It takes some fiddling with sliders to match an order as close as you can though, and until you unlock parts most orders are impossible to do for the full denari. I think a "closest match" button would be helpful, that plugs in pieces that could satisfy the order with some slider movement or tells you the pieces are close but you don't know how to make the order correctly. Maybe have a perk that will change it to "exact match" where the part size sliders are all in the green for that order.

It would also be great if there was a button to have your other characters autorefine materials (assuming charcoal and metal/ore in inventory) up to what is necessary for a given crafting recipe. Such as needing fine steel, click button and have other characters refine the crude iron up the various tiers to the amount required.

BUG: When doing an order you also have to go back to free build to change the character for refining. You can't swap to a character with skill too low until you leave the order by going to free build, and this includes the refine tab.

I made a character with high social this time. I had no luck with marriage until I had a critical success proposing to a generated noble from a rebel faction. I noted with horror the generated noble had terrible statistics.

I tried my first sieges (I was trying out being a mercenary; turns out it earns a lot of denars; haven't had a fief yet) and the siege weapons are sweet. I also very much enjoyed throwing big stones off the wall as a defender; I saved a castle that way by tossing stones at the swarm of infantry by the ladder.

However the ladders are sort of broken; the attacking army stops climbing one and switches to the other. Rarely are both ladders being climbed at once. I notice the ladders sometimes are pushed off the wall after the attackers switch to the other. Maybe it's a placeholder for toppling a ladder with climbers on it? The infantry also just swarm at the bottom of the ladders. If they could spread out a bit they would take less casualties from siege weapons and also the player wouldn't have an easy time mashing them with thrown boulders from the wall, as you can't miss and the boulder does splash damage (if it doesn't kill the player from hitting a crenellation and doing splash damage)

Spoiler: large images (click to show/hide)

I liked the ram though, that works well unless it takes a hit from a catapult. Sometimes infantry can't path close enough to a door at the gate to start whacking it though I can't remember what siege map it was on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The siege tower seems more effective than ladders but less than the ram. It's not the grinder for the attacker the ladders are, but it's not a massive rush like breaking down the gates is either.

I was a merc for the Battanians and mostly joined armies. I noticed they spend a lot of time going back and forth to the same city when they are reinforcing, I think maybe the recruits refreshed in the city they just left and they loop back to get them.

Army battles are sweet though. I had one where I commanded the archers and I put them on the right flank as the infantry fought. The Battanian infantry broke first but the 60 remaining archers won it in a final charge as the opposing infantry straggled at them (Battania noble tree are archers) to win the battle between two 900+ armies.

Spoiler: Random army screenshot (click to show/hide)

I made the mistake of building up my companions in the usual bandit hunting early on. I have one remaining out of my original trained companions: Dermot the Ragged. I have no idea why he's been lucky. I didn't even give him good armor, just some raggedy looking Battanian armor. It turns out realistic companion death results in frequent companion death when outside of simulated battle while army battles are most fun outside of simulation, so now I just put some cheap gear on them and put rusty metal armor I loot on them as I find it, since my first companions had the shiniest of armors, still died, and I lost the expensive armors. On a fun note, one of my companions died of old age while he was leading one of my parties. I don't even know what happened to his troops and gear.

It's a really fun game, I recommend it.

Spoiler: Spooky bug (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on July 04, 2021, 11:42:12 am
A quick tip: dead battle companions can be stripped by going to their inventory in the immediate post-battle scene.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on July 05, 2021, 01:49:03 pm
Bruh that axe is fuckin cursed!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 02, 2021, 11:58:16 pm
PTW
I tried the 1.6e beta and the crafting economy is a bit better. It's more difficult to reach higher smithing since you are limited to the orders, and the high skill orders are not selectable. I think that's a positive though since smithing was easy to powerlevel with. There are still massive value orders for high skill smiths, paying over 100k frequently for a two handed weapon (because two handed maces are limited to the two hammer heads, if you unlock the better one the orders for it are sometimes 11k)
Yeah I built my coming-back-after almost-a-year character largely around smithing (and stealthhorse-archery) and I was very pleasantly surprised when I figured out how to make lucrative, then suddenly bank-busting items.

Obviously I picked all the perks that allow refining materials, along with the perk that halves the stamina loss for refining.  Steelsmithing costs the ability to learn 2X parts via smithing, which is the main way I learn parks, but steel is super uncommon.  I'm learning a lot more (and earning a lot more) by knowing the dwarven riddle of steel.

That is, from what I've seen, learning is based on total difficulty and not materials.  I often use baser components with the same difficulty as steel ones.  But I still can't imagine being dependent on scavenged steel, particularly if I ever want to work with Fine Steel and Damascus Thamaskene steel.  Access to materials really hampers the learning and the profit.

In-game time is money, though.  I've got a foreign-culture town as my fief (the Imperial Lageta, as Battanian) and the freakin Vandians kept trying to take it.  Not to mention what happens when we inevitably break truce with the Western Empire over our tribute (82%), and they try to take back their imperial lands.

But I've been trying to prepare for that.  not like you can rely on the AI brigades, though they're worth working with.  No, I've been packing my town with the most expensive units I can train up, then running off to train off more.  I'm hemorrhaging like a thousand dinars a day but that's nothing, I have 151 smithing and plenty of available materials.  25-29k from a zweihander is pretty great, even if it takes a day or two (guesstimating) to refine the materials from dirt-cheap ore.  Again, hooray for the half-price refining perk.

It takes some fiddling with sliders to match an order as close as you can though, and until you unlock parts most orders are impossible to do for the full denari. I think a "closest match" button would be helpful, that plugs in pieces that could satisfy the order with some slider movement or tells you the pieces are close but you don't know how to make the order correctly. Maybe have a perk that will change it to "exact match" where the part size sliders are all in the green for that order.
It took me a while to figure out that I was supposed to do anything more than click the order, than forge.  I wasn't sure why I kept getting dinged on orders at my skill.  I saw the message that I hadn't unlocked certain parts, and took it to mean that the parts were preselected.  151 skill and I literally can't make any throwing axe...  Presumably if I made more axes I'd unlock a head for throwing axes too.
It would also be great if there was a button to have your other characters autorefine materials (assuming charcoal and metal/ore in inventory) up to what is necessary for a given crafting recipe. Such as needing fine steel, click button and have other characters refine the crude iron up the various tiers to the amount required.

BUG: When doing an order you also have to go back to free build to change the character for refining. You can't swap to a character with skill too low until you leave the order by going to free build, and this includes the refine tab.

So I read this before I started typing, but it blow my mind.  All this time I assumed that smithing was just a leader skill (which doesn't make sense of course, but gameplay!) I had no idea I could use my companions.
Honestly, that changes a lot.  Taking the perk for learning-by-smelting sounds a lot better when my companions can make all my raw materials.  But here I am, I suppose, until I have to switch to my heir in several thousand real life hours of gameplay.

I'm not bitter, I prefer using my companions for other things anyway.  This is just bonus stamina I can use for (basic) refining, making my existing strategy even better.

I made a character with high social this time. I had no luck with marriage until I had a critical success proposing to a generated noble from a rebel faction. I noted with horror the generated noble had terrible statistics.
Mm, I haven't gotten married yet.  Despite having a full town as fief, my character has plenty of time to build up more renown.  I haven't even married my brother off just yet.  Still, from what I hear, the player's clan will will adopt spouses and their fiefs?  Seems like a good reason to wait for a good deal, even though grown children are supposedly able to lead caravans (or parties I guess heh).
I tried my first sieges (I was trying out being a mercenary; turns out it earns a lot of denars; haven't had a fief yet) and the siege weapons are sweet. I also very much enjoyed throwing big stones off the wall as a defender; I saved a castle that way by tossing stones at the swarm of infantry by the ladder.
Is being a mercenary particularly lucrative?  Influence gets burned into cash (I think this was true when I played a year ago) and it never seemed all that profitable compared to simple commodity-trading.  Much less smithing, of course.
However the ladders are sort of broken; the attacking army stops climbing one and switches to the other. Rarely are both ladders being climbed at once. I notice the ladders sometimes are pushed off the wall after the attackers switch to the other. Maybe it's a placeholder for toppling a ladder with climbers on it? The infantry also just swarm at the bottom of the ladders. If they could spread out a bit they would take less casualties from siege weapons and also the player wouldn't have an easy time mashing them with thrown boulders from the wall, as you can't miss and the boulder does splash damage (if it doesn't kill the player from hitting a crenellation and doing splash damage)

Spoiler: large images (click to show/hide)

I liked the ram though, that works well unless it takes a hit from a catapult. Sometimes infantry can't path close enough to a door at the gate to start whacking it though I can't remember what siege map it was on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The siege tower seems more effective than ladders but less than the ram. It's not the grinder for the attacker the ladders are, but it's not a massive rush like breaking down the gates is either.

I was a merc for the Battanians and mostly joined armies. I noticed they spend a lot of time going back and forth to the same city when they are reinforcing, I think maybe the recruits refreshed in the city they just left and they loop back to get them.

Army battles are sweet though. I had one where I commanded the archers and I put them on the right flank as the infantry fought. The Battanian infantry broke first but the 60 remaining archers won it in a final charge as the opposing infantry straggled at them (Battania noble tree are archers) to win the battle between two 900+ armies.

Spoiler: Random army screenshot (click to show/hide)

I made the mistake of building up my companions in the usual bandit hunting early on. I have one remaining out of my original trained companions: Dermot the Ragged. I have no idea why he's been lucky. I didn't even give him good armor, just some raggedy looking Battanian armor. It turns out realistic companion death results in frequent companion death when outside of simulated battle while army battles are most fun outside of simulation, so now I just put some cheap gear on them and put rusty metal armor I loot on them as I find it, since my first companions had the shiniest of armors, still died, and I lost the expensive armors. On a fun note, one of my companions died of old age while he was leading one of my parties. I don't even know what happened to his troops and gear.

It's a really fun game, I recommend it.

Spoiler: Spooky bug (click to show/hide)
Oh hey, you went Battanian too!  Nice, forest people unite o7

... Okay, I just went back to the Warband map to try to map the Battanians to the centuries-later map of Calradia, and uh:
https://mountandblade.fandom.com/wiki/File:WarbandWorldMap.png
I'm sure I've missed a ton of discourse about this, but like
what the fug?

Edit:  Also, when I say "learning" in regards to smithing being a function of difficulty, I actually mean both skill gain *and* the chance of learning new parts.  I smelted countless basic swords (skyrim-style) before I started pushing my limits and was suddenly gaining levels 1 by 2, along with learning tons more components.

And very rough testing suggests to me that it's the Difficulty, not the material value.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 03, 2021, 11:33:41 am
I made some space on my SSD and reinstalled. Running off the SSD, most of my issues with the game have been resolved. Post battle load times are down, frequent reloads didn’t start to take longer and longer.

Currently on Day 30 or so. Just building up an income base atm, getting enough cash together for shops and caravans. Currently making most of my money trading goods internally in Battania. Car Banseth and Dunglanys are practically right next to each other, but the price in Fur between them is substantial.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 08, 2021, 10:44:39 pm
Man, you really don't have any business owning a city with <200 troops in your army. I managed to lobby for Lageta as the Battanians with a pathetic amount of influence and somehow won it. In the span of about a week, Vlandia declared war and and the AI immediately made a beeline for Lageta with a 500+ strong army. I was Lord of Lageta for about a week. At best I could muster 150 troops, none of the Battanian armies were in the vicinity, and I got sniped through a turret window by crossbows about 40 seconds into the actual siege.

I reloaded and just had to watch as they took it over. I'm sitting on boatloads of cash but don't have enough coming in yet to sustain a big enough army to make any real moves, so I guess the quest for more money continues.

Enjoying my playthrough though. Just ran into a Vlandian army my size that was half cav, half crossbows pretty much. I'm just fielding infantry and archers. The lord said "You're badly outmatched. There's no shame in surrendering now." I replied "I think it is you who should surrender." Went into the battle, posted up at the crest of a hill and laughed as their cav struggled to make it up, getting sniped off their horses or cut down by my infantry. My boys mopped up the rest of the crossbows afterwards. Not too shabby for realistic difficulty settings. He should have surrendered, indeed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 09, 2021, 07:16:58 am
If that battle had occurred on flat land, it would have gone much differently.  Stupid AI, his crossbows probably could have out-ranged and out-damaged your archers, they should have just stopped at max range and chipped you to death.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JamesCorella on September 09, 2021, 03:02:52 pm
A quick tip: dead battle companions can be stripped by going to their inventory in the immediate post-battle scene.

Do they still appear naked in their Encyclopedia page if you remove their armor on their death?
Lol they appeared naked in your friends page if you had good a relationship with them lol
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Zangi on September 09, 2021, 03:47:16 pm
A quick tip: dead battle companions can be stripped by going to their inventory in the immediate post-battle scene.

Do they still appear naked in their Encyclopedia page if you remove their armor on their death?
Lol they appeared naked in your friends page if you had good a relationship with them lol
Just means you can choose to bury em in nice clothes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 09, 2021, 04:19:01 pm
If that battle had occurred on flat land, it would have gone much differently.  Stupid AI, his crossbows probably could have out-ranged and out-damaged your archers, they should have just stopped at max range and chipped you to death.

The cavalry didn't wait for the crossbowmen, and so by the time the crossbows were in range, the cavalry were all dead and I was able to swarm the crossbows and remaining infantry with my own infantry. The arrogance of cavalry, ha!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 09, 2021, 04:25:17 pm
If that battle had occurred on flat land, it would have gone much differently.  Stupid AI, his crossbows probably could have out-ranged and out-damaged your archers, they should have just stopped at max range and chipped you to death.
I always got the impression that bows outrange crossbows, but I haven't checked closely with troops.  It's also just a different consideration since bows have considerably more arc (which can be really fun for shooting over an infantry shield wall into the mass of easy headshots - I guess the Empire forgot the top half of their Turtle formation, no wonder they're collapsing :P)

I'm obviously biased towards bows, but I basically haven't tried crossbows or crossbow troops in Bannerlord yet so what I know is only from fighting against them.  I bet I'd appreciate a crossbow's armor-piercing value if I wasn't on easy settings.  As is, even longbows feel too slow (I was considering the riding perk that somehow lets you use them on horses, heh.  Epic skill levels go by rule of cool).

Man, you really don't have any business owning a city with <200 troops in your army. I managed to lobby for Lageta as the Battanians with a pathetic amount of influence and somehow won it. In the span of about a week, Vlandia declared war and and the AI immediately made a beeline for Lageta with a 500+ strong army. I was Lord of Lageta for about a week. At best I could muster 150 troops, none of the Battanian armies were in the vicinity, and I got sniped through a turret window by crossbows about 40 seconds into the actual siege.
This happened to me too almost verbatim!  I loaded an earlier save didn't bid, but still got it, but this time I *rushed* troops into the garrison ASAP.  Largely low-tier but still, I managed to get almost 300 total (including my party size of 100) by the time the Vlandians arrived.  Probably not enough for their ~600 strong army, but maybe it changed the strategic considerations because this time we got relieved by a friendly army!  Possibly the besiegers wanted more of a siege-weapon advantage, causing them to lose their opportunity.

In the seasons since then I've kept the garrison practically full with high-tier archers and infantry.  500 units costs out the nose, and the town is constantly "starving" despite having lots of diverse food, but money is barely a concern with my smithing skill.  I assumed they would have rebalanced the starvation thing by now, but it'll work itself out eventually as prosperity falls (and my villages grow more productive).  I did manage to get the town reasonably loyal!  I accidentally chose an Imperial companion to be the governor, which I think helped a lot.  The town doesn't like that *I'm* still a foreigner, but it's something, and I've been rush-building nice things for them constantly :)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 09, 2021, 06:52:53 pm
I'm trying to strategize how to oust a Battanian clan from one of the inter-Battania holdings. Probably won't change much; any AI that's at war is going to look for the weakest settlement that's owned by a player and go stampeding toward it, but depending on how I do it, maybe it will remain strong enough to dissuade the AI from going for it. And at least they'll have to travel through the interior of Battania and that should get the AI's attention, rather than some settlement in another kingdom's territory where almost no friendly armies are going to be near. (Kinda reminds me of my first fiefs in Mount&Blade 1. Burnt to cinders, awarded to me, immediately attacked by other nations with zero support from my own faction.)

Anyways, there's one clan with only one member that has one fief, a castle I think. I know I can vote to have them expelled but then I'll also need the influence to make sure it falls into my hands. I don't think there's any way to make war against them from within the same faction, but I haven't really screwed with kingdom-level political stuff much yet.

Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 09, 2021, 11:19:42 pm
Yeah I'm used to the Vaegir in M&B 1 giving me Shitditch.  An icy hovel at the corner of void and starvation, but at least it wasn't on the front lines.
Things were always tougher as a female because you basically had to take a contested fief in order to be awarded it, then you had to just hope that the enemies didn't beeline taking it back.  (Though a terminator-level PC in full plate and a hammer-style weapon could kill a LOT of besiegers on easy settings, along with her troops getting those unfair multipliers).

Speaking of... Here in Bannerlord I have the easy option "Friendly Troops Received Damage" being 50%.  But there's no way that's applying to all friendly troops.  It has to just be my personal retinue, or my personal wing when I'm in an army.  Close fights remain extremely close, even as I personally score a few score (heh) kills with my bow and scavenged arrows.  I was typically commanding the 1-2 horse-archery wing of these Battanian armies in order to do my thing with a couple AI friends, but ideally I'd probably be "commanding" the infantry core.  I'm seeing good results by choosing the heavy cavalry wing (since the infantry core is always taken by the army leader).

That reminds me, if you're trying to hold onto a freshly conquered initial fief and your so-called countrymen aren't helping - again, been there - I *assume* that that's one of the main purposes of accumulating influence.  I notice there are often a lot of unattached companies (especially mercs) in the army formation dialog.  It costs a lot of a precious commodity, influence, but it seems like it could be worth it.  You can even apparently request that a friendly army disband such that you can then enlist their companies...  I haven't tried that, and the in-game help suggests that some influence-actions may be refused despite "moral obligation".  So far I've gotten by without even making an army, but it's something I keep in mind.  (I'd rather spend the influence on gaining adjacent fiefs when the time comes).

Sure beats Warband's Marshal system.  I like the armies, even when the AI is silly with them.

Anyway, sharing my character:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was browsing the Reddit and apparently scars make men a lot more attractive for courtship!  Dunno how it is for women, and you probably can't even see it but it's a pretty large one on her face.  I didn't know at the time, just seemed to fit the Battanian smith-daughter/huntress.
I should probably be finding a mate.  It's said to be profitable, my brother isn't doing it, and I'm not getting any younger.
And heck some of the people I was supposed to ask about this trinket are dead, I should probably get on that too.

(But also I *think* that marrying as female will be matrilineal- I mean that, regardless of gender, the PC will gain by marriage?  Possibly that even includes when one marries off a clan member?  I don't know.)

I'm also curious about my skill layout though, since that's basically a readout of how I play!  My trade should be WAY higher but it feels like it's based on profit instead of, like, volume or value.  Which is tricky.  I'm ferrying tons of food to my town, and I'm taking advantage of deals when I see them, but honestly I'm more about promoting Battania.

It's so creepy that Battania and its forests are just gone in M&B.  I don't like that (But I kinda like it as a spooky, sad thing).
Edit: (Also I misspelled Shapeshte as Shitditch, my bad lol)

Edit2: I was already going two-handed, initially as a lark but then I remembered how good hammers were.  But in this sequel I used them for the sheer reach, particularly with custom weapons, able to sweep down while riding past.  I never was once for lances or lance-like mounted spearing.  I'm not *good* at landing hits from horseback (you have to look at the dirt below your opponent to actually connect!  Wtf?) but when it works it feels really nice.  And then once I'm sore and bleeding, I can go back to the good old horse-archery.
Oh right but then when I signed on with the Battanians, my king (who wasn't the initial king!  The first two kings DIED, and my current king is not of their clan!) granted me this... this I-don't-even-know.  It should be a polearm, except it's fine steel down to the hilt.  It's called the reaper, which *rolls eyes* but it fucking owns!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2021, 01:00:29 am
Kings grant you weapons?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 10, 2021, 08:06:40 am
Yeah, one that was honestly better than anything I've crafted!  I'm making stuff at-parity fore sure, but I've held on to it as a status symbol and for its name if nothing else.  But also it's a very good two-handed blade (and called "Reaper" aaaaaaah)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2021, 12:08:38 pm
Why'd and how did he grant you one?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 10, 2021, 02:02:10 pm
Why'd and how did he grant you one?
When I officially joined up as vassal/swore fealty.  I was surprised, he didn't offer anything ahead of time, it was a nice bonus.  And he didn't grant a fief like in M&B/Warband, though he did grant me Lageta as soon as it was conquered.
Spoiler: Reaper (click to show/hide)
I guess it can be used one handed,  somehow, but I always take two quivers instead of a shield like in Warband.
I can't smith much above 75 swing damage with the tier-4 saber blade I've unlocked, which uses fine steel, so I'm pretty happy about it.  Honestly it ended my ambitions of forming my own kingdom, particularly when he and his heir died for Battania and a new clan rose to power democratically.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 10, 2021, 02:04:52 pm
Yeah, Caladog of the Battanians rewards you with the Reaper, which is really a Falx, which is the Battanian signature cultural weapon. Falx are, in real life, incredibly savage weapons and it delivers in Bannerlord too. Easily better than any other weapon I've found or can craft. (Did they just remove Blacksmithing NPCs from the game? I've been searching for ones since the start of my playthrough and haven't seen a single NPC companion with smithing skill.)

Kinda sucks tbh, I didn't expect to have what might be the best weapon in the game so early. Was looking forward to crafting my own weapons but I'll need to max out blacksmithing to have a chance at making anything remotely better than the Reaper.

Also this is probably just me, but after 20 hours of using a single handed sword of about 103 length, going to the Reaper with its absurd reach I had to re-learn how to strike from horseback with it. I'd literally be riding on top of someone and somehow manage to miss them repeatedly with the Reaper.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 10, 2021, 03:37:38 pm
Jumped back to see the changes... its coming along nicely. Trading is somehow more intuitive, but it IS taking me forever to get that first workshop  :'(

Anyways... If I had a nickel for every time I've missed from horseback...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2021, 04:31:57 pm
I remember that weapon from early in the EA, you could win it in tournaments then.

I've never had any leader give me gifts when I join factions. But then again I join Southern Empire 99% of the time because I want to marry Ira
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 10, 2021, 05:40:05 pm
*Checks wiki* Ooh, aiming high!  Valid.  Though I assume that would pull her out of the royal clan (I need to do some marriage experiments, I've had little luck googling the subject).  I guess it's still a marriage tie, and having high opinion from your liege is very handy for getting fiefs.

I'm still patiently waiting to become queen of the Battanians someday.  It seems pretty inevitable with how the PC is unkillable.  There's a funny Reddit post about a guy joining the proto-Khergit and getting elected king almost immediately.  In the comments people were talking about "accidentally" tossing javelins into their lieges to manufacture similar circumstances.  Treasonous rogues! :P

I also like the ladies riding around commanding armies, and I noticed something interesting.  You always get the option "Since you are not a warrior, you're free to go" with them which seemed a little odd particularly coming from a lady-knight.  But I've been checking their stats and it seems kinda true.  A lot of them have high Riding and Stewardship, making them powerful leaders of armies, but I haven't found any with weapon skills yet.  A neat compromise of sorts!

...That said, I completely forgot about the peasant women->swordsisters line from M&B.  Whatever happened to that, it was fun :(
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2021, 06:19:41 pm
Yeah, she leaves their family and can't inherit the empire from her mother (at least not as of now), so I mostly want her because of thematic reasons, to establish the links to the last emperor. The fact that she's a pretty bad ass character isn't exactly a minus either though.

There's several good female generals running around, at least one in every faction I believe. I can't remember any actual names but I looked up suitable wives for the brother character and the best ones are, from the top of my head, one Vargarangian woman, two Frangothic ladies, and I believe a Mooarab one.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 10, 2021, 07:25:46 pm
I wonder if the awarding of weapons upon joining a faction is factoring in renown at the time of joining, relationship to the faction leader, traits, yadda yadda. I always play a character with "good" traits, usually join a faction at Clan Rank 3 or 4 and always try to preserve and build relationship with pretty much everyone.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2021, 09:25:05 am
Client: Requests two-handed axe
Me: Shows up with hoe
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 13, 2021, 12:52:13 pm
A couple of questions in the modern Bannerlord era:

1.) It seems like fighting on horseback sucks--you're more likely to get sniped by some archer or thrower and you can't hit shit. I started with spear weapons, but they're so awkward to handle, I switched to one handers--even then, it's like one or two hits and you get your world rocked. What's the secret? Horse Archery can work, but it's attritional in battle for sure.

2.) Is it worth becoming a lord? I don't want to be King and my trade network is already threatened as a mercenary. Best way to make $$$ seems to just be a trading butterlord--I'd like to put the financial cushion into a formidable mid-size party, but whenever I join up with Western Empire (my workshops are there)--they are getting smacked around and closing off my trade to their hostile neighbours.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Taricus on September 13, 2021, 01:02:02 pm
1. Get a two-handed axe, and do not get caught in an extended melee with infantry.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2021, 01:46:07 pm
Starting this up again, the performance has gone down a big hill for me. Oh well.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 13, 2021, 03:57:35 pm
Starting this up again, the performance has gone down a big hill for me. Oh well.

Strange--new computer? In comparison, performance has gotten considerably better for compared to 6 months ago (or whenever I last played).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JamesCorella on September 13, 2021, 05:02:54 pm
Client: Requests two-handed axe
Me: Shows up with hoe

and she was a real battleaxe!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 13, 2021, 08:18:24 pm
Starting this up again, the performance has gone down a big hill for me. Oh well.

Strange--new computer? In comparison, performance has gotten considerably better for compared to 6 months ago (or whenever I last played).

I still get a quite a bit of frame loss riding circles around 200 guys forming a circular shield wall but in general I'd agree. So much of my performance issues were HDD related though, so I'm probably an outlier there.

Things are going well in my game. I'm lord of Sargot and a nearby castle, and have been for some time now. I've fended off multiple sieges from Vlandia to retake it, because I've learned how to raise armies and sorta manipulate the kingdom AI armies to help me a bit. I realized that if you knock out all the small 50-100 unit Lords they have running around, they have a lot fewer armies to combine and hit you with a 700 to 800 strong one. So I just raised a moderate army and roamed around Sargot, picking off Lords as they wandered in. At one point we had at least 50% of Vlandian nobles in our prisons. I stopped ransoming them. I don't really need the money anymore, I'm sitting at 100k and holding there pretty stably. Once you're getting 30% of the loot from 500+ strong engagements, the gear sales alone keep you in the green, and you don't really need the ransom cash anymore. Having another factions lords locked up just means there are that fewer armies available to attack you or defend their stuff. If you want peace, it's also literally a factor of consideration for making peace, says it right there when you're voting on it for your own faction.

Mah family is starting to age up and become useful. Members of your family from the start of the game seem to start with pretty beast stats after their events. I think my sister has no stat lower than a 4, which is better than me and better than a lot of NPC companions. And my first kid was born not too long ago. Things are lookin up for Lord Griff of the Battanians!

Just trying to decide what to do next. The Banner quest is going to take a very long time to pan out and endlessly dealing with Conspiracy Events while I do other things is going to start getting tiresome. What I really want to do is take over all of Vlandia and wipe them out so Battania can just own that end of the map. Or dismantle the Western Empire. But every time Battania is at peace long enough to start some shit with someone, Sturgia is waiting in the wings to join the war. Fuck Sturgia, snow sucks. Go beat up the Khuzaits or screw with the Empire, let Battania do its shit.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 14, 2021, 02:14:23 pm
Why not just fight Sturgia directly?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 14, 2021, 04:15:32 pm
NGL, an entire army of javelins spooks me. Sturgia and Nords were always IMO one of the toughest nations to fight. They're decently armored so they can take hits. They're shielded so they can advance into missile fire. Javelins are terrifyingly strong. And once they close into melee, those axes can do a number too. I remember thinking I could overwhelm a small Nord army and they'd always make me pay dearly for it. I'd rather fight almost any variety of bandit than Sea Raiders too.

Plus, Sturgia is on the other side of Battania from where my fiefs are. We've already made in roads to Vlandia, I'd rather keep going that way and acquiring fiefs there then having fiefs on opposite sides of Battania.

And I hate snow. So I don't have any interest in owning a summer home in Sturgia. I'm happy for Sturgia to exist. I just wish they'd fuck with someone else rather than sticking their nose into our other conflicts.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 14, 2021, 04:28:33 pm
Hm, I actually made a living in M&B fighting Sea Raiders.  The key was always to wait until they threw all their javelins before engaging.  Plus having superior numbers of horsemen.  Those axes would usually hit the horses while the horseman would hit the Raider.  There would be losses, but we'd come out on top usually.

Need Crossbowmen to fight them in a siege, and they have an annoying tendency to Sortie, which wrecks the Crossbowmen strategy.  So sieges versus Nord usually just sucked.  Basically just had to keep whooping them in the field, then gather literally everyone for the slaughter of a Nord siege.

But if the Sturgia are your enemy, then they are your enemy.  Do you have an options to change that?  If not, then they are your enemy and must be destroyed.

From what little I remember of the lore, Battania and Sturgia have bad relations.  Sounds like your liege needs to actually form some allies.  If they're two generations removed from the loser that starts in charge, they've got a chance to fix that I would think.  I believe M&B has some ally mechanics.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 14, 2021, 04:32:15 pm
I mean, Caladog is a piece of shit :P And it seems like pretty much every nation in Bannerlord hates every other nation. I don't recall being at war with Sturgia in previous games. I'm inclined to think that the Sturgian AI just sees Battania as over committed in conflicts and decides to make some territorial gains. Although I will say, this playthrough, we've consistently be at war with them from almost the start.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2021, 04:52:14 pm
Sturgia's been giving my Battania a pass, ironically.  We're basically always at war with either Vlandia or Western Empire.  We'll be beating up on one, and the other will declare war, so we'll accept a (generally profitable) peace treaty and switch fronts.  It makes progress very slow, but it IS pretty dynamic.

Northern Empire declared once but basically nothing came of it, since we barely shared any border, and then I think they white-peaced to fight Sturgia some more.  That's my theory of what Sturgia must be doing anyway.  The AI nobles detest peace, even if it means picking a fight they can't finish.

It's almost 40k levels of Only War, really.  Except the constant recruitment doesn't even use "excess" population (town Prosperity), except that all war leads to burnt villages and harassed caravans that speed the (inevitable, mechanically) starvation process.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on September 14, 2021, 04:56:50 pm
it might be cheating but i modded the game to allow me to take my entire force into bandit hideout raids. i self-cap my force at 50 elite troops and we storm bases in the name of local villages, its good money and raises my rep with notables. and of those hideouts i prefer the sea raiders for their higher quality loot.

also, theres a thing (it might not actually be a bug due to the difficulty of some of these) where some smithy requests pay out over 100k a weapon. though, to be fair, making one of these supervalue weapons requires creative thinking as you need the right combo of damage, speed, range, etc. which you can't do at lower levels. but even failing to make the weapon correctly can pay out a fraction of the og reward, so you can nab 20k on a failure.

i modded the game to speed up parts discovery (wayyy too slow in the base game for me) and i personally buy every piece of hardwood and charcoal i can to smelt mass amounts of found/bought weapons and refine the metal up to fine steel to make those aforementioned supervalue requests.

the world map is at a fragile balance as the individual empire parts fight off their neighbors and only border castles change hands and back again. while that happens im trying to rake in as much cash as i can and trying to build a solid corp of companions, including my brother who i fully intend to make my 2nd in command cuz his skill levels are crazy high.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2021, 05:13:53 pm
The parts discovery started off reaaaally slow, but once I unlocked a tier 3 component and was creating 100-150 difficulty things, it really sped up.  At 200 (250?) difficulty I'm unlocking a new component or two with almost every smith, though it takes considerable stamina to refine the materials.  And while the requests will still give you some cash if you get pretty close, the value of free-built weapons hardly seems to care about imperfections.

So attempting the most difficult possible projects seems like the road to legendary smithing.  I just wish the stamina system was less annoying.  I don't mind the balance portion, I'm constantly having to pause my lucrative smithing to serve my nation, but being able to see my stamina on the overmap would be very welcome.

Also I think there's a perk in Athletics that helps a lot with smithing stamina.  I think I got it from fighting hideouts and tournaments, which force me off horseback obviously.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Folly on September 14, 2021, 06:14:26 pm
I'm curious, what difficulty are people playing on?

I recently started a game on Realistic and it's rather frustrating having enemies 1-shot me from full health, no matter how much armor I pile on. Meanwhile my attacks usually take around 4 hits to down an opponent, even after grinding my 1H skill up to over 50 in tournaments.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on September 14, 2021, 06:24:58 pm
realistic with 50% chance dynasty death because losing my family members to roaming squads sucks.

yeah, i agree about the balance. even with my finely crafted backsword of damask steel that does 78ish slash damage takes 2~3 hits on lightly armored forest bandits.

i may install the combat rebalance mod to give that a try
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2021, 06:42:41 pm
Haha yeah I'm playing on what I think are the default values, but definitely stacked toward the player - IIRC I take a quarter damage and my troops take half?  I might be misremembering some of that from Warband but it's definitely stacked in favor of me and my personal troops.

The interesting thing about it is that army battles don't seem to be effected much, troop-wise.  So I have to actually do things in order to help the troops, because just shooting like 30 people in the face isn't really a gamewinner when it's 500-600 per side.  I feel like it was a lot easier in Warband, almost hilariously:  I would ride ahead of my troops and circle around the enemy line as they did their "cautious advance" thing.  I'd take some pot shots from behind their line and, naturally, they'd turn to face me with their shields (complete with plastic extensions in every direction).  Only to become pincushioned by my archer line which I signaled to move into position.

Or charged by horses I guess.  If you want to use, like, mounts and blades.  Point is it was fun to distract the AI for my troops to slaughter them.  That doesn't seem to work so much anymore.  Skirmishing with and sniping enemy cavalry seems to help friendly ranged units bring the pain sometimes, but those annoying Vlandian/Empire shield circles require brute force as far as I can tell.  ... no, wait, when I shoot like a dozen of them over their shields, I bet that causes them to route to the charge a lot easier.  Death to missile fire seems to really demoralize the enemy.  And sure they have a few hundred reinforcements, but those don't arrive in proper shield formation, vulnerable to roaming cavalry.  And every enemy that routes is essentially harmless.

I dunno I'm just thinking aloud, it's not like the game tells you any of this.  I still don't know how to control my troops except f1-f1 position, f1-f2 follow, f1-f3 charge.  Every time I try to actually navigate the glyphs I end up with my cavalry dismounting or my archers drawing their daggers or something.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 14, 2021, 06:57:49 pm
Realistic with no chance of death, is my flavor. Even though it would make for cooler stories, my innate power gamer would just save scum anyways, so what's the point? I'd just have a subset of companions or family members where I'm like "if you die I don't care?" in which case for companions, why would I have them? Maybe in another playthrough when I've satisfied my inner power gamer, I'll do an iron man run for the good stories.

I mean, playing on realistic, no one would survive. You can play perfectly and still eat a sniper shot to the head and be instantly slain. That shit happens to me all the time already. I appreciate realistic difficulty because it truly makes you realize how little of a difference you make in a large battle in terms of your combat prowess. It's so lethal you have to pick off a guy here or there where it's sensible to, and that doesn't make you much better than a suicidal AI troop in terms of your kill counts. Battles on realistic difficulty scare me as a self-identified sword combat wonk. Mechanically you can have a perfect fight 1v1 but the sheer size of chaos of a battle means you can't count on anything 100% short of just watching from a hillside.

That said, in sieges it kinda pisses me off. The archer AI is so accurate they can nail you through an arrow slit with their first shot. That shit sucks. It sucks because it seems to happen sooner rather than at "random" in a field battle. Smaller selection of targets, you're not moving as much, entire armies of archers with unobstructed LOS. I get it. But it still sucks.

And as for the damage totals.....it kinda? reminds me of playing Vermintide 2 near max difficulty. You live in a world of 1, 2 and 3 shots for the most part. You and the enemies. So everything you do is trying to move that threshold up or down a notch. It's not a smooth gradient. It's like the difference between Battlefield 4's normal mode, and hardcore. Normal mode, you measure time to kill in how much of your magazine it takes. In hardcore, you measure it in single bullets.

Playing a ton of arena from the start of the game up to I think Level 21, I've watched it go from 7+ hits to kill a foe, to 3 max. Single handed skill of about 150. Two handed weapons, 1 to 2 max. Two handed skill of like 80.

You will run into the occasional opponent that every swing to his head is doing like 26 damage, which for the average HP of around 100 for most people, that's at least 4 hits. But that's top tier, 44 armor value head gear, the shit lords wear. One also has to consider arena combat doesn't have as much forward momentum to add damage. Fights that don't end on the first swing, like sword and board fights, tend to become a circle strafe and you don't get as much speed bonus to your damage there.

All in all, yeah, realistic damage kinda flattens the entire gear curve. You tend to notice how hard you are to kill against shittier opponents after a while though. To the point I'm now ok ploughing into 20 or 30 looters for some 2 handed action from horseback. Because my armor is to the point where their shitty weapons actually deflect half the time. But an Imperial Knight with a spear? He'll still fuck me up in a max of 3 hits.

So while it does take some of the teeth (or bullet sponginess) out of the gear system, I think it makes for more engaging gameplay at a higher skill threshold. I've done so much arena at this point and studied how the AI plays and how weapons function, I've got a strat for pretty much everything at this point. Granted I had to do some of those arenas 10+ times to win (esp. with missing health) but I found the margins at what you can get away with when you're 1 hit from dead. Normal Combat AI but I'm sorta tempted to jump it up a level and see what it's like. I doubt it'll make a difference for field battles but it might spice up the arena more. The normal AI in arena's is pretty easy to bait into a clean headshot.

Quote
I dunno I'm just thinking aloud, it's not like the game tells you any of this.  I still don't know how to control my troops except f1-f1 position, f1-f2 follow, f1-f3 charge.  Every time I try to actually navigate the glyphs I end up with my cavalry dismounting or my archers drawing their daggers or something.

1,2,3 etc.. to select the troop type.

F1 to move.

Then you can click drag from left to right and draw out the formation. The "preview" before releasing doesn't seem to match up the actual line that gets created afterward. But I've found it easier and more engaging to position troops using that method. You can also just [number], F1, left click and it will roughly try to set them in formation where the banner was when you clicked. More of a "get over there" order than a "take this position" order.

5 (I just use that # because no group is assigned to it, which the game reads as "everyone"), F6. That tells your whole army to use AI orders and function autonomously. Useful if you just DGAF, and it has the added bonus of awarding you Tactics skill for every "order" the AI executes. I actually tend to use it in serious battles too, because me trying to be clever with troop movement and positioning has occasionally gotten me in trouble, and there are times I think the AI is better suited to winning me the battle than I am with issuing orders.

What I'll sometimes do is put the infantry and archers on AI command, and keep the cavalry with me so I can pick the moment and angle to charge. The AI tends to believe cavalry should get in your face ASAP, so you're all in disarray when the arrows start falling and the infantry shows up. I tend to go for a different tactic. Let the infantry soak up the arrows as they advance, that's what their shields are for. The AI will send them and the archers the right direction. Wait until the infantry is just about to clash, and THAT'S when you slam your cavalry in their back. Flanked from both sides, the enemy AI morale will shatter and half those guys will run. The only downside is, in large battles, that usually means the reinforcements will pop into existence RIGHT on top of you. I really dislike the way reinforcing works in the game. The AI always seems to be sitting on top of their reinforcement spawn while your's have to run from the other end of the battlefield to reach the fight. That's half the reason I go down a lot of the time. I've slain the first wave of dudes and wondering what's going on, then 30 cavalry just materialize on top of me, surround me and stab me to death. Or even better, 30 crossbows that weren't there 4 seconds ago unload in unison on me.

In general though I found orders clunky to deal with. I thought? the game had some kind of pre-battle formation thing you could do but I'm probably misremembering.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on September 14, 2021, 07:17:07 pm
you can kinda do formations: each unit type/name (like imperial infantryman) can be assigned to a "formation" which is that little shield next to their level and such on their stats page on the party screen. ive not delved into that part so much cuz i tend to use the F6 command to let the AI calmly order my forces to engage without being overly suicidal and so ive not gotten too deep into the command mechanics other than the basics. when i do take command, i keep it simple and put a shield wall in front and the archers behind. the ai is very good about firing over the heads of my infantry and intelligently seem to swap to melee weapons when the enemy gets too close (the imperial palantine guards do very well here). cavalry i order to the side and have charge when the lines have clashed.

i can't wait for the game to reach its stable end point when modders don't have to worry about their mods getting invalidated every month, cuz i think we'll see even better mods then we used to with warband.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2021, 08:14:38 pm
I play at the default super easy mode. Otherwise I'd just die all the time.

Maybe if there was crosshairs and the AI wasn't so unfairly able to get around "you can't use your weapon here there's no room to swing" hindrances for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 14, 2021, 10:26:35 pm
I mean, Caladog is a piece of shit :P And it seems like pretty much every nation in Bannerlord hates every other nation. I don't recall being at war with Sturgia in previous games. I'm inclined to think that the Sturgian AI just sees Battania as over committed in conflicts and decides to make some territorial gains. Although I will say, this playthrough, we've consistently be at war with them from almost the start.

I might just be making stuff up, but I think the game will generate "rivals" for nations.  So in your game, either Battania or Sturgia rolled the other as their rival.  Hence why its not always the case.

EDIT: One thing I know for sure is that the AI takes claims very seriously.  So if Battania captured a castle that used to belong to Sturgia, even if it was another nation that took it before Battania took it from them, Sturgia won't rest until they get their castle back.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 14, 2021, 11:23:47 pm
Yeah, I've seen the same with Vlandia. They're basically going to focus half their energies on my fiefs during any war from now on. I don't think it's much of a mystery though. Each fief has a culture. Kingdoms are always going to go consider fiefs with their culture as belonging to them and are always going to shoot for restoring their nation to completeness. I've glanced a couple times at the Battanian/Sturgian line and I'm not sure we have any of their fiefs but I'll check on it.

I prefer to go with the in-universe logic that Sturgian are murderous opportunist bastards :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2021, 11:42:16 pm
The culture mechanics support that too.  I like that multiple of us went Battania and got awarded Lageta, but it's always going to be disloyal.  Of *course* the Empire would want to take it back.

...As if the Empire still exists, ha!
And also, if you look into the entry on Lageta, you learn a sordid tale of Imperial betrayal.  Silver-tongued diplomats betraying the Battanians to take the town.  And now the people are fully "civilized", loyal to the empire.  That's as may be, but Battania remembers.

Quote from: Bannerlord wiki quoting the in-game reference
Lageta was infamously acquired by the Empire by an act of treachery. A rogue imperial mercenary murdered the Palaic chieftain who employed him, took the citadel, invited in imperial colonists, then bequeathed the town to the Empire. The Senate disavowed his action but accepted the bequest. The district is now thoroughly Calradicized, but the Battania to the north remember, and whenever an imperial envoy speaks of the sanctity of treaties and pacts, they just nod to each other and say, "Lageta."

"Oh how dare you impinge on our Imperial lands, you forest barbarians?  Have you no civility?"
Mmhm.  "Lageta".


"okay but can you stop shooting us from so far away?"
Mmmhmhm.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 15, 2021, 11:04:24 am
Verrrrrry interesting.

In my game, Battania took Lageta back from the Empire. Then it went Rebel and became a Battanian-Rebel controlled city. So we took it back over from the Rebels (but didn't wipe them out.) Then Vlandia made war on us, and they took Lageta from me, as described earlier.

THEN it went Vlandian rebel.

So now Lageta is a Vlandian rebel city, and I'm *not* able to make war on them. Battania can't declare war on Rebel factions since they're not a major faction. The Vlandian rebels are at war with Vlandia, but they're no where close to being able to take it back.

So Lageta is just sitting out there, owned by a faction I could easily wipe and reclaim it, that I can't make war on, and the faction that can make war of them won't.

Truly that city is cursed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 15, 2021, 11:05:56 am
The Free State of Lageta...

Thats AAR-worthy! Defect and make it the most prosperous city-state in the game!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 15, 2021, 12:04:48 pm
Yeah I can't even start a war via dialog with the Vlandian Rebels.

"I'm here to deliver you my demands!"

"What? Are you mad we're not at war!"

"Ah yes, please forgive me."

Looks like Vlandia is going to retake it sometime here soon though.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 15, 2021, 12:21:34 pm
Wow!  In my case it was taken by Battania (I think that's when Caradoc died, he died super early for me) and rebelled, but I was instrumental in crushing the rebellion and got awarded it.  Along with rushing to defend it from Vlandia, I did everything I could to bolster it's loyalty to prevent it from breaking away again.  I'm sure the large garrison helped there.

Funny thing is that the rebellion consisted of a clan lead by "Arenicos".  Yeah uh, according to the in-game text, THAT Arenicos.  As in the "former" emperor, according to the in-game guide, yet alive and fighting for Lagetan independence.

Another strange thing is that the rebellion is still going, and that Arenicos and his clanmates seem to lack the magic dungeon-escaping skill.  I had Arenicos himself in my dungeon for over a year, periodically declining ransom offers.  Yet the rebellion lives on, with his family hanging out somewhere in central Calradia.  I considered executing him, but eventually ransomed him instead.  I haven't seen him come back, presumably too poor to mount a meaningful siege against my maxed-out garrison.

Still, seems like the sort of call that could come back to bite me.  ...Naaah, I'm sure it's fine~
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 15, 2021, 02:19:08 pm
God thats an amazing story
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 15, 2021, 02:44:03 pm
Starting this up again, the performance has gone down a big hill for me. Oh well.

Strange--new computer? In comparison, performance has gotten considerably better for compared to 6 months ago (or whenever I last played).

Nope, same old same old. Lowered the specifics a little but according to the ingame measurer I should have ample of space. Still can't have ~90 troops in a battle without severe stutters, when I used to be able to max out my battle size (I'm on medium (400) so not super high either) with only minor slowdown.

One of my main issues is with the audio, though. For some reason it goes crazy with stuttering during some battles. I might have to try to take a better look at that actually but I've never been much of an audio knowing guy.


Wow!  In my case it was taken by Battania (I think that's when Caradoc died, he died super early for me) and rebelled, but I was instrumental in crushing the rebellion and got awarded it.  Along with rushing to defend it from Vlandia, I did everything I could to bolster it's loyalty to prevent it from breaking away again.  I'm sure the large garrison helped there.

Funny thing is that the rebellion consisted of a clan lead by "Arenicos".  Yeah uh, according to the in-game text, THAT Arenicos.  As in the "former" emperor, according to the in-game guide, yet alive and fighting for Lagetan independence.

Another strange thing is that the rebellion is still going, and that Arenicos and his clanmates seem to lack the magic dungeon-escaping skill.  I had Arenicos himself in my dungeon for over a year, periodically declining ransom offers.  Yet the rebellion lives on, with his family hanging out somewhere in central Calradia.  I considered executing him, but eventually ransomed him instead.  I haven't seen him come back, presumably too poor to mount a meaningful siege against my maxed-out garrison.

Still, seems like the sort of call that could come back to bite me.  ...Naaah, I'm sure it's fine~

All hail the Lich Emperor!

edit: nah, I give up, this isn't fun to play in. Maybe I'll try again with mods removed sometime, though I doubt that would really have that much of an impact.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Taricus on September 15, 2021, 03:28:36 pm
edit: nah, I give up, this isn't fun to play in. Maybe I'll try again with mods removed sometime, though I doubt that would really have that much of an impact.

What mods are you playing with? IIRC there's an issue with how the shader compiler works that does make things sluggish when it has to compile them for the first time
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 15, 2021, 04:46:15 pm
Starting this up again, the performance has gone down a big hill for me. Oh well.

Strange--new computer? In comparison, performance has gotten considerably better for compared to 6 months ago (or whenever I last played).

Nope, same old same old. Lowered the specifics a little but according to the ingame measurer I should have ample of space. Still can't have ~90 troops in a battle without severe stutters, when I used to be able to max out my battle size (I'm on medium (400) so not super high either) with only minor slowdown.

One of my main issues is with the audio, though. For some reason it goes crazy with stuttering during some battles. I might have to try to take a better look at that actually but I've never been much of an audio knowing guy.


Wow!  In my case it was taken by Battania (I think that's when Caradoc died, he died super early for me) and rebelled, but I was instrumental in crushing the rebellion and got awarded it.  Along with rushing to defend it from Vlandia, I did everything I could to bolster it's loyalty to prevent it from breaking away again.  I'm sure the large garrison helped there.

Funny thing is that the rebellion consisted of a clan lead by "Arenicos".  Yeah uh, according to the in-game text, THAT Arenicos.  As in the "former" emperor, according to the in-game guide, yet alive and fighting for Lagetan independence.

Another strange thing is that the rebellion is still going, and that Arenicos and his clanmates seem to lack the magic dungeon-escaping skill.  I had Arenicos himself in my dungeon for over a year, periodically declining ransom offers.  Yet the rebellion lives on, with his family hanging out somewhere in central Calradia.  I considered executing him, but eventually ransomed him instead.  I haven't seen him come back, presumably too poor to mount a meaningful siege against my maxed-out garrison.

Still, seems like the sort of call that could come back to bite me.  ...Naaah, I'm sure it's fine~

All hail the Lich Emperor!

edit: nah, I give up, this isn't fun to play in. Maybe I'll try again with mods removed sometime, though I doubt that would really have that much of an impact.

Sounds like a sound issue.  Try disabling the sound on the game, and see if that helps.  There might be a mod out there that rips out the sounds.
I've at least heard of that sort of issue in other games in the past.  For what it's worth, I'd make a bug report for the devs.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 17, 2021, 10:47:26 am
Starting to think Loyalty may be one of the most important fief stats. They're all important, but man if you don't have loyalty pinned down, everything else sucks. You can't make any fief improvements with a loyalty of 25 or less. The construction time goes from like 80 days to 800 days due to the loyalty modifier on construction. Which, because half the fiefs a player can easily get are always in a different culture and you take huge hits to loyalty because of that, only after a lot of in-game time getting my loyalty to creep past 25 have I actually started to make money from my fiefs instead of just eating shit loads of cost on garrison upkeep.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 19, 2021, 08:23:56 am
So I've been playing this game for since it EAed and I only now realised that when you are a mercenary for a kingdom hunting down bandits count as "enemy armies" that you get paid per defeating of. Suddenly being a low-level mercenary seems a lot more viable

edit: Also Go Battannia Go
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JamesCorella on September 19, 2021, 10:28:51 am
Well, I just learned something, thanks!
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 19, 2021, 10:40:55 am
I certainly hope I'm not wrong now. I checked and my income went up after having beat looters at two separate times
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 19, 2021, 11:03:02 am
When you're a mercenary you gain "influence" much like a vassal (AFAIK) except that instead of spending the influence on politics/armies, a portion of the influence is converted into cash money during daily upkeep.

So in effect yes, fighting bandits or enemies gets you paid (over time) and if you are out of influence, they don't pay you anything.  Pretty sure.

(Fighting bandits still gets you substantial influence as a vassal, it's often worthwhile even during wartime)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2021, 08:47:56 am
I had to join Battannia as a vassal (I took a quest to siege a castle for 20 000 diners from Caladog and he said I had leave to summon an army but I couldn't (because mercs can't) which really seems like an oversight) and I got the sickle-sword too, as well as some noble troops I couldn't fit into my army. I was only clan level 2 or three, so maybe it's something all get, and maybe it's just been added since I played last or maybe Empire vassals don't get anything. Maybe I should check instead of hypothysing but who has got the time for that, I have castles to siege and IT'S ALMOST HARVESTING SEASON

edit: Gah, fuck you game. I saved when I found Caladog for my vassalswearing because there was an army near the castle that I was going to siege that seemed like it was going to siege it too so I thought "hey let's not join Battannia just yet and see if I can't finish the quest by taking advantage of that army" so I play on without joining and the army just runs by the castle. So I reload, swear loyalty, and start traveling to the castle calling upon the handful of lords I can with my petty influence (two of them) -- and of course this time the other army stops and sieges the goddamn castle

moreedit: I get quest to take castle, I vassal up, I make army, I siege castle, I take castle, I FAIL QUEST?!? Goddammit game
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 20, 2021, 10:52:40 am
Fighting bandits is always worth it. They're worth cash you get from looting them, their gear is worth cash after you sell it, they're worth cash as prisoners and fighting a lot of them constantly helps keep your morale up between big, meaty battles of note. Once you've taken down 3 or 4 bandit groups that are at 40+ size, selling all that loot is easily 5k or 6k in cash.

Honestly, gear should depreciate in value the more of it there is just like trade goods. With selling gear from battle most other economy in the game is semi-irrelevant. Yeah you need cash flow to cover the spots between battle. But once you start fighting big battles against lords, you're looking at 10k - 14k per battle in just gear sales. Kinda nutty.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2021, 12:06:13 pm
Fighting bandits is always worth it. They're worth cash you get from looting them, their gear is worth cash after you sell it, they're worth cash as prisoners and fighting a lot of them constantly helps keep your morale up between big, meaty battles of note. Once you've taken down 3 or 4 bandit groups that are at 40+ size, selling all that loot is easily 5k or 6k in cash.

Honestly, gear should depreciate in value the more of it there is just like trade goods. With selling gear from battle most other economy in the game is semi-irrelevant. Yeah you need cash flow to cover the spots between battle. But once you start fighting big battles against lords, you're looking at 10k - 14k per battle in just gear sales. Kinda nutty.

Not to mention that you can break down the garbage weapons for smithing components, or has that changed?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on September 20, 2021, 12:34:43 pm
You sure can, though you'll mostly get wood and crude iron.  A lot of weapons grant better material like steel, but it's probably better to sell those (unless they're your only source of quality materials, a perk choice I can't believe the game lets you make).

Scrapping junk weapons eventually becomes a waste of precious stamina, but it's pretty useful early on.  It can even teach you new parts!  Rarely, though.  Most new parts come from smithing top-tier items.

@Scriver
lol the army AI is pretty weird sometimes.  I do like that you can see their current mission because otherwise they might seem completely insane.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 20, 2021, 02:00:13 pm
Fighting bandits is always worth it. They're worth cash you get from looting them, their gear is worth cash after you sell it, they're worth cash as prisoners and fighting a lot of them constantly helps keep your morale up between big, meaty battles of note. Once you've taken down 3 or 4 bandit groups that are at 40+ size, selling all that loot is easily 5k or 6k in cash.

Honestly, gear should depreciate in value the more of it there is just like trade goods. With selling gear from battle most other economy in the game is semi-irrelevant. Yeah you need cash flow to cover the spots between battle. But once you start fighting big battles against lords, you're looking at 10k - 14k per battle in just gear sales. Kinda nutty.

Not to mention that you can break down the garbage weapons for smithing components, or has that changed?

Yeah, forgot to add that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 24, 2021, 11:51:01 am
I decided to try it out and Imperials also give gifts no, I got the two-handed sword Justifaiarcarriari. Which is a bit strange because why would Imperials gift weapons they don't use?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 24, 2021, 12:23:27 pm
I'm on Day 400 something and Lageta has changed hands at least 16 times. Currently it's BACK in the hands of the Western Empire.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 26, 2021, 01:18:43 am
(http://i.imgur.com/XP5xCvsl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XP5xCvs)

Muwahaha, I'm so delighted to have them all enjoying the hospitality of the dungeons of Sargot yet again! They must be mad because I slew Derthert in battle, because this latest war has drug on forever.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 26, 2021, 08:36:52 am
I just want to say again how much I love that they bothered to put camels in the game (even though I never use them of course, gotta go fast). I wish there was a super secret mount that was a camel that was actually the best mount in the game, just because that would be funny.

I also wish there was llama cavalry. We need a Sunset Invasion dlc for this game, call in the llamalry
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 26, 2021, 10:28:14 am
How is the Banditlord life anyhow? Worthwhile?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on September 26, 2021, 05:02:51 pm
It appears thusly to me:

-Roguery improves bandit-class troops, prisoner conversion times, raiding outcomes and time, sneaking into enemy cities, stuff that makes your notoriety go away quicker, etc...
-Banditry takes the form of raiding, obviously, and about 3 or 4 different criminal quests in cities that drive up your criminal notoriety with the culture.
-So you raid and do quests which make you persona non-grata to a given culture, bugger off to somewhere else and do the same until your notoriety goes away. Not especially different than Warband TBH.

I dunno, in general, as long as you have a parent culture you don't fuck with and will give you safe haven, it largely seems like regular Bannerlord except the troop type you get all your benefits for will never wear above medium grade armor, use crossbows or field heavy cavalry. I dunno, maybe there's truly bad ass bandits like in Warband but Mountain/Sea/Forest/Steppe/Desert bandits are mid-tier troops and unless you're completely overwhelming your opponent, a standard army with heavy cav and enough arrows is gonna make mincemeat outta it.

But I'm planning on a run of that kind at some point none the less.

--

For my game, I now own both castles adjacent to Sargot. Were it not for Charas, Vlandia would be completely blockaded behind Battania territory. The Battania AI followed my lead and gobbled up all the castles and territories near Sargot.

I want Charas to fall to close that loop, but the real prize is Jaculan. 4 villages! Among the Battania clans, only now are others starting to get up to 3 fiefs, which I've been at for a while. I could have claimed a lot of different fiefs the AI has taken over, but decided to strategically just hoard influence for the siege, capture and voting on Jaculan. Once you have more fiefs than other clans, your chances of continuing to get more are pretty much zero, so I've been bidding my time. The Battanian AI has tried to take Charas about 3 times now, one of which I participated in but we got chased off by a massive army. So I'm thinking I'll need to spearhead the effort the take Charas, let someone else claim it (otherwise I'd be at 4 fiefs), and then take Jaculan and hopefully win it. Shame you can't spend more than 200 influence on one action. I'm sitting on almost 700 now from the near constant warfare and not really spending it.

At one point we were at war with 3 kingdoms simultaneously. We'd been at war with Vlandia, then the Western Empire declared war to try and take back Lageta, City of Woe. Almost immediately after they declared war, Sturgia, like a Hyena at the edges of a fight, also declared war on us. Within about a day in game time, 2 castles and 4 villages across Battania were being raided or sieged. It's like all three AIs decided to pounce at the same moment. With so much influence I figured fuck it, we have to get a peace treaty with at least one of these. So I got one for the Western Empire pretty easily actually. A day later Sturgia agrees to pay a pitiful tribute to make peace as well, so we're back to just Vlandia.

I ride back to my fiefs because one, then two of them are being raided. All told I end up killing 5 separate armies totalling ~550 troops back to back to back as they keep running in trying to raze the same village I keep defending.

Shit be kinda nutty. But in general, I can walk away from most fights of equal numbers at a 10 to 1 kill ratio on realistic battle difficulty. Overwhelming amounts of heavy cav and lots of missile support makes mince meat of most armies. At least until reinforcements become part of the picture. Then things get very messy. It's easy to flank and surround a single foe in a 1v1 fight. But in big massed battles with lots of reinforcements, there's technically no flanking. Just a big mass of people dying like crazy on both sides.

As I get further and further from Battania proper, it's getting more annoying to get troops. I've been trying to run a thematic-ish army of mostly Battanian troops. I eventually gave in and also started recruiting Vlandian Crossbowmen and Cavalry, because:

1) they're "my people" now
2) crossbows absolutely fucking destroy. Battanian massed arrow fire is disgustingly strong, but it's even better with crossbow bolts mixed in. I can win most engagements without actual infantry. Vlandian Sharpshooters and Fian Champions are tough in meleee, they've got heavy gear and can take an infantry charge just fine. They just shoot until the enemy closes, engage in melee, then my cavalry just smashes into the whole pile and we win.
3) Battanian cavalry is, sadly, their weakest troop type. And since my war with the Vlandians I'v ended up with so much heavy cav as prisoners I figured, why not supplement the one real weakness of the Battanian roster?

Now I'd say my army is 25% Battania cav, 20% Vlandian Cav, 10% Imperial and random assorted Cav, 30% Crossbows and Bows and 15% infantry.

Monetarily, I'm around 200k gold most of the time. I'm now making FU money from post-battle loot, the kind of money where you can buy 90% of what's being sold with even caring what it costs. And yet, I lose anywhere from $1-$2k every day in upkeep because of funding garrisons. Is this what it's like to be the elite super rich? Constantly in debt but you don't care because there's always new money coming in?

Brother and Sister are all now grown up, maxed out on companions for the mean time. Kinda a shame that arranging marriages for your family essentially loses you family members in some (all?) circumstances. I tried to marry my brother to the widow clan leader of the clan my wife came from (RIP Eregon.) He ended up leaving my clan and joining their's. Maybe that's because he was marrying the clan leader, or something....? But it seems plausible that arranging marriages can't earn you new clan members, only lose them. Kinda sad, was looking forward to whole family trees going on with my clan. As it is everyone in my clan is going to be 100% focused on their work instead of their personal lives :P Maybe when my kids are grown up (son and daughter now) things play out a little differently.

The noose is starting to close around Vlandian, and soon my RP backstory for the Rhodoks (a fusion of Vlandian and Battanian culture that resulted in crossbow wielding forest people) will be complete! But it's balanced on a knife's edge. All our neighbors are looking for the slightest sign of weakness on our part to pounce. If the WE is happy to keep fighting over Lageta and wasting their time on that rather than attacking into the flank of Greater Battania and my fiefs, then I can continue to focus on grinding Vlandia down and defending my turf. Vlandia lost about 20% of their holdings at this point and were it not for Derthert's enormous clan they'd probably not have the #'s to stop us.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on September 26, 2021, 05:35:28 pm
Brother and Sister are all now grown up, maxed out on companions for the mean time. Kinda a shame that arranging marriages for your family essentially loses you family members in some (all?) circumstances. I tried to marry my brother to the widow clan leader of the clan my wife came from (RIP Eregon.) He ended up leaving my clan and joining their's. Maybe that's because he was marrying the clan leader, or something....? But it seems plausible that arranging marriages can't earn you new clan members, only lose them. Kinda sad, was looking forward to whole family trees going on with my clan. As it is everyone in my clan is going to be 100% focused on their work instead of their personal lives :P Maybe when my kids are grown up (son and daughter now) things play out a little differently.

Your brother is 100% supposed to be able to become married and not join another clan, or at least that's how it worked before. I haven't used the vanilla marriage offer thing for a bit so I don't remember exactly how it worked, but I think it might have to do with how you offer it in the "bartering screen". Likely clan leaders can not be married out of their clans either though.

Nowadays I just use a mod that let's me use a tavern meny option to set up marriages for my family members. I pretend they have actually invented messengers in the M&B universe or whatever so I don't have to run around finding all these people myself. With the mod I'm using you can choose whether to marry in or out of your family (presumably paying or getting paid a spouse price depending on which).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on September 26, 2021, 05:42:39 pm
Nice.

My new game in the current version is going all right. Playing a Battanian lady and seeing similar stuff to everyone else. Although we've mostly been fighting over Sargot so far, which has been given to me twice and reconquered fairly quickly both times. I just haven't had the resources or time to get its garrison beefed up before another seven or eight hundred strong army rolls up.

But I was also given a castle nearby that used to belong to the WE, so that's all right. Right now I'm trying to rebuild all my stuff because I foolishly took a quest from the king to go raid villages. It went...poorly, after I got sandwiched between two forces and left with no way out. So, RIP all those troops and all my money after I ransomed my companions back.

And before I got things fully recovered from that I was part of a big army that got stomped by an even bigger army. It was a painful hour or so in real time.

But I'm building back ok. Getting new troops isn't too bad since I spent a while doing quests in a bunch of the Battanian towns to build up good will with the notables. I think I just need to build up stronger this time so that I'm ready to actually try and hold Sargot next time we take it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Uristides on October 01, 2021, 09:50:21 am
So I just got this on a whim because I was really feeling like getting back to Warband but at the same time tired of dealing with its shortcomings.

First thing I noticed is that the early game progression feels way off. Bandit groups are just way too small and fast, which wouldn't really be a problem, except they are way more scared of you as well. Instead of the 3 ~10-man strong bandit groups ganging on my party, which could be really bad for me, they just scatter in different directions and I'm left chasing down just one of the groups for a whole morning, hoping that I can raise enough money for the next round of wages. And the same applies inside battles, you let your archers loose too soon and they killed 3 bandits before they could get in reach of your infantry? Welp, they are now running away, you'll only get loot for the 3 you killed and the remaining group is too small and fast for you to chase down again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Getting a ton of palfreys really helped at least being able to chase bandits, but still there's the problem that the groups are just too small and cowardly to be profitable/fun.

OTOH city/village quests are much more varied and fun than in WB. It only worries me that I'm barely 10 hours in and it's already starting to feel really repetitive.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 10:00:54 am
Quote
OTOH city/village quests are much more varied and fun than in WB. It only worries me that I'm barely 10 hours in and it's already starting to feel really repetitive.

I mean, your experience with Warband should reflect this. It's a repetitive game.

What opens up in the later game is:

-The main quest
-Lots o' companions
-Joining a kingdom
-Merchant economics with shops, caravans and manual trading
-Raising a family
-Mass scale warfare and sieges
-Owning and managing fiefs
-Weapon crafting

That's pretty much it.

The early game is what it is for the reasons you mentioned; troops have morale, looters have shit morale and shooting a handful of them before engaging in melee causes them to break. It doesn't really matter if you're fighting 5 or 50; as long as you're stronger as soon as they take any real losses they're going to bail. Higher tier bandits hang in there a bit longer, and actual armies longer still. But generally in my experience, if you want a knock down drag out fight, you either have to be the weaker opponent or there need to be such numbers that there's reinforcements. Morale is always in play it just seems less obvious when there are 200 foes on the field and 20% of those are fleeing. More obvious when it's 20 looters and all surviving 15 decide to flee.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on October 01, 2021, 10:19:53 am
I don't bother with troops or companions at all until after I have 2-3 workshops and have gotten a good spouse.  That way the bandits beeline for me.  Nom, nom.  If I miss all the routers it's easy to just engage them again since I have so much more speed than them.  Even more so if fleeing before combat when the group is too big  ;).

At a certain point I'll pull the trigger and build to the 20 needed for the main quest (companions first) and move on to the next stage of the game - with 20ish in the party many more village quests open up.  It's a bit different to warband where adding companions started pretty much immediately and a bit the same of not adding troops to the party until absolutely neccessary.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 10:35:14 am
I don't think companions had an upkeep cost in Warband. It's been a while so I don't really remember.

My strategy, specific to the character I've been trying to play since early access, was to go Control + Bow, and grab some beefy quivers and a starting bow.

Then I'd spend oh......at least a few in-game weeks taking out groups of looters up to around 15 in size. It's kinda rough at the start with low bow skills but you very quickly skill up your riding and shooting, and the loot is fairly good for the starting game. Once I've got a few thousand denars to play with, I recruit a scout and a surgeon, give them mounts and throwing weapons or bows, and continue to do the same while I start buying up profitable trade goods. I'll keep this up for a while until I can afford a workshop or two, and usually the last thing I need to do for the main quest is recruit up to 20. Then we're fully underway.

In EA this didn't used to work so well. Looter Team 6 had such great aim with rocks they'd headshot you from bow range with them, and fight pretty much to the last man. Now, their aim is pretty poor unless you get really lazy kiting them, and break pretty easily so you can switch over to your one hander and ride them down and make some melee skill points.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: feelotraveller on October 01, 2021, 10:53:02 am
Yeah I'm glad the looter rock-damage was nerfed.  It basically doubled the size of early bandit parties I am willing/capable of taking on.  Still worth grabbing a (the cheapest) shield at the start though.

The importance of not having companions in bannerlord is the impact of party size on speed and bandit aggressiveness.  I guess not having to pay them is also a bonus.  Besides they just up and die so regularly - particularly early on.  Shrug.

A more adrenaline filled start is to go with a spear and get used to charging.  Quite risky because it only takes one (or two) good hits and you're toast.  Try to pick up one with a swing cut attack for more effectiveness when cutting down routers.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on October 01, 2021, 11:05:25 am
thanks to weaponsmith requests, that's how i fund my multi-million denar empire. (i mod out smithing stamina cuz i think it's stupid, and it might be a cheat because im sure that was implemented to stop smithing snowballing but it's more annoying then just limiting. smelting and refining should only take like, 1 stamina but instead smelting 2 hammers takes all my stamina)

ill hire a few throwaway soldiers from the empire, we'll fight looters and eventually take village quests to raid bandit hideouts. i'll take my 20 or so recruits and we'll raid it one bandit or group at a time and get that sweet sweet startup capital and loot. weapons are saved for smelting and clothing/armor is sold off alongside excess trade goods. any captured bandits are ransomed. doing this for a few ingame days gets me a core of good soldiers and denars. then i buy hardwood and begin my real task: smelting enough resources for my real earner. i'll scrap a ton of wood, hit 25 in smithing and take efficient coalmaker, and then buy mass amounts of under 200 denar weapons like smith hammers and wooden mallets. the efficient coal recipe gives out a ton of smith xp. once i have some skill, ill start with requests that pay out a thousand or more. after that money becomes quite easy as i roam from town to town, fulfilling bigger and bigger requests. (i also mod quicker parts discovery for the same reason as above. i think instead of parts being discovered randomly, you should unlock the tiers of parts as your skill progresses but eh)

i also try to do the main quest as i go but im considering how i want to go about becoming the one true emperor. ill probably just work on leveling my clan up and filling all the companion spots. being rich and a master smith helps here as i can mass smith fantastic quality blades for them and buy them the best gear, making them elite heavy infantry and cavalry.

edit: also even the best armor in the game isn't nearly as good as even mid tier armor in warband was. like, even in full plate and chain i still take like 40 damage from a peasant with a pitchfork. im considering using the realistic battle mod or something to buff armor, does anyone currently use armor mods? any i should check out?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 12:48:12 pm
Even though the reality of smithing is kinda dumb, modding out stamina and modding in discovery would to me be like...why even play? My only wish is that they increased stamina regen while traveling so I didn't have to spend time waiting and doing nothing to get it back.

As for armor...I just figured that was how realistic damage went. I think my character is at least 30/30/30/30 at this point, and when I plow into a group of looters, on average I'll have a lot of their attacks bounce. But then I will take a solid 30 damage hit from one of them. Which as a lot to do with momentum speed difference between attacker and victim, where you actually hit them with the weapon (the end of the weapon produces more damage on contact than most other parts in most circumstances), damage multipliers from head shots, etc....
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on October 01, 2021, 01:19:14 pm
the smithing stuff is just a stopgap for now until either taleworlds rebalances it or my favorite tweak mods get updated finally. i moved to 1.6.3 beta for the increased memory performance because i had really bad loading times. the beta patch has noticeably improved loading times for me.

i could always use my companions as smelter piggies but honestly with the stamina regen being what it is, its just annoying.

as for armor, maybe thats years... or at this point maybe a literal decade of mount and blade conditioning me to plate armor making me a walking tank. its just seeing a handful of my heavy soldiers fight a similar handful of looter peasants and somehow one of the peasants with a broken looking club somehow taking one of my heavies out in just 2 strikes just makes me go wut.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 01, 2021, 01:52:49 pm
I have myself, a random rogue companion, and a proper smith companion all doing some smithing related works. My only issue with stamina right now is that you ONLY regain stamina when resting inside a castle or town. It seems to me that if you spend all day hanging out in a town for some poachers to show up you should have recovered your stamina a bit.
Upside to having multiple people smelting stuff is that we can do a lot more per day. Downside is that we're not gaining skill all that quickly. Even my proper smith NPC only has a 65. I really need to level him up so that he can put another point of focus into it.

But it's not a big deal. Especially since we can make a stupid amount of money smithing up two-handed swords to sell. And even cheapo crude/wrought iron swords sell for 700 at the low end. So we can easily pay for the upkeep of my crazy 100-man cavalry army.

I do wish there was more you can do with workshops. They're fine for some passive income, but they lack even the moderate interaction you get from having fiefs. Even just the old warband trick of dumping off large amounts of cheap raw resources directly into the shop would be nice.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 02:00:56 pm
Yeah, like I said, based on my arena testing, everyone in game is by and large a 1, 2 or 3 shot on realistic. Regardless of armor, weapon quality or HP pool.

Occasionally I'll fight a guy in the arena in full kit who for some reason just always takes about 20ish damage to the head. So I have to hit him between 5 and 6 times. It tends to be when squaring off with sword and shield though, so there's little or no speed bonuses at play. When I run into a fight and swing, I'll get a nice 40 to 60 damage hit with a single handed weapon against mid-tier armor.

So while it does kinda rankle to see a Tier 5 Vlandian Banner Knight get downed in a fight with Looters, I've seen it happen in arena plenty. Where a <culture> Militia wearing clothing somehow manages to bring down a Tier 4 or Tier 5 unit in armor. Both in real time and in simulation. I almost feel like armor is there for incidental damage. The random arrow or crossbow bolt or glancing hit you didn't see, armor makes the difference between a one shot and surviving it. In straight up 1v1 encounters, footwork and blocking and not ever getting hit is worth way more than any amount of armor. Because for me, when I've got more than 2 opponents, the odds of winning are almost nil, doesn't matter how heavy your armor is or how good of a weapon you're wielding.

And I'm generally ok with that, I think. Otherwise I'd play with reduced damage dealt and just laugh off the 10 or so damage they manage to inflict on a clean strike. Too easy!

Quote
It seems to me that if you spend all day hanging out in a town for some poachers to show up you should have recovered your stamina a bit.

Stamina regen should just be a function of time IMO, with bonuses included for how you spend that time (waiting versus traveling, waiting in the field vs. waiting in a town.) That would be my ideal.

Quote
But it's not a big deal. Especially since we can make a stupid amount of money smithing up two-handed swords to sell. And even cheapo crude/wrought iron swords sell for 700 at the low end. So we can easily pay for the upkeep of my crazy 100-man cavalry army.

I really haven't done any free form smithing for profit. I've got like 500 crude and 400 iron stockpiled in Sargot because the sale price of metal materials is a fucking joke across almost the entirety of Calradia. Even when the price IS good, you sell 1 bar of iron and the price per unit drops by 35% IMMEDIATELY. Kind of annoying. So I think I will crank out a bunch of cheap garbage and eat up that stockpile, it's driving me nuts looking at it.

Quote
I do wish there was more you can do with workshops.

The implication is they're supposed to get better or you're supposed to be able to invest in them to improve them. Alas, they haven't changed since EA and I'm hoping they don't just....doodly doo skip over actually finishing the feature.

Quote
Even just the old warband trick of dumping off large amounts of cheap raw resources directly into the shop would be nice.

I tried something similar to affect their profitability, by buying out all the wine in a town I have a wine workshop, or sell a bunch of grapes in that town. Neither seems to have a noticeable impact on profitability. I've had workshops with no resource flow manage to produce stuff, and I've had workshops with an ABUNDANCE of raw materials fail to ever actually start production. Workshops in general and the economy related to them need a complete pass in development, IMO. Right now the amount of money they make me (with 5 of them) is a pittance compared post-battle loot, and a marginal amount of cash compared to a good caravan day.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 01, 2021, 02:11:49 pm
Yeah, workshops feel super unfinished right now.

Oh, as for making money turning out garbage I've found that two-handed swords seem to have the highest profit margin. At least with the skill level and unlocks that I've got. Much, much higher than a lot of other stuff. Especially daggers, they seem to break even or even actually lose you money. Or at least that was the case with the few tests I've done on it.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 02:17:21 pm
I managed to craft a 2 hander worth like 33k at one point. My smith is at about 170 skill and I've got lots of T5 parts, so I think I'm going to make a stupid amount of money very soon. Just feels, I dunno.....unearned. I just hoard 10 battles worth of garbage from looters, smelt it all down and turn 1k of raw materials into 33k of finished goods. Seems completely whack to me. But so do a lot of things related to price in Bannerlord. Like how T5 stuff tops out at about 8k selling price, and T6 can jump all the way up to 100k.

(Protip: a spouse recruited from another clan, and your own family and children once they reach 18, tend to ship with REALLY nice weapons and armor. Like my wife, despite having a 0 bow skill, came with a Noble Long Bow that clocked in at a value of $109k denars. If you want a quick path to better equipment without paying for it, just steal it from your own family :P)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 01, 2021, 02:39:24 pm
crafting is all kinda messed up--I craft a 40-sumthin-k two hander at like crafting 50... but the mechanic is... just out of place in the regular gameplay loop.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 01, 2021, 02:39:33 pm
I still think the smithing stamina system would be great improved by being able to see one's stamina on the overmap.  I'm okay with spending the time, but guess-and-checking how long to wait feels silly.  Particularly since it doesn't remember your selections between "trips" to the smithy. 

It would also feel a lot more natural if stamina recovered (much slower) while traveling, yeah.  Kinda weird to go on a week-long campaign and stop by a town only to realize "oh I'm still exhausted I guess".

I agree workshops seem disappointing right now.  I thought I read that they use local prices, but IIRC the report on their performance is pretty basic right now.  It'd be nice to see at what (average) price they bought, price they sold, and volume.  They could keep a store of raw materials like in Warband (which you could deliver into directly again) and a maximum material-price at which they'd purchase extra materials for that storage.  Likewise, a minimum sell-price after which they hold on to their product, for you (or your caravans!) to sell elsewhere.

The size of these warehouses, and the amount of potential volume they could work, would be upgradeable.  This could also make the workshop an extremely valuable target though, so maybe some of those criminal organizations would start doing raids (unless they happened to like you, and/or you garrison the workshop a bit).

Heck, while I'm at it:  Imagine such a workshop, NPC-controlled, making velvet or whatever.  It's highly upgraded, able to process a lot per day, but with accompanying salary costs.  Suddenly, oh no, the price of silk skyrockets and there's a bunch of foreign velvet on the market.  The NPC spirals into debt over a few days or a week of this.  Thankfully the generous player arrives and gives a fair price for their remaining assets  :D
(Let me own as many workshops as I want, jeez.  It's so much less optimal than smithing, and I want to manipulate the intriguing if unfinished economy systems)

There's something so close to economic warfare already mostly implemented.  It's already pretty easy to buy up a town's food supply.  Kinda unnecessary when they tend to "starve" themselves already due to the weird way massive piles of food only provide a few points of nutrition, which gets outpaced by "prosperity".  AKA population, why don't they just call it population?  Anyway, buying up raw materials is supposed to have an effect on local workshops, which *should* make a big impact on taxation or feeding troops.  In wartime that means smuggling, which is currently really tricky...  It would be nice if high roguery (such as on a companion leading a caravan) allowed them to not get instantly ID'd and destroyed in enemy territory.  Easier for a caravan, but maybe possible for small armies as well for covert-ops.  AKA raiding villages to hurt the towns to hurt the lords.  I think doing it financially is more interesting but ideally both ways should be viable.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 01, 2021, 02:48:57 pm
Yeah, the economy system has a ton of potential that's just not being used too much right now.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 01, 2021, 03:03:57 pm
Yeah, the economy system has a ton of potential that's just not being used too much right now.

True that. My first impulse after getting into the game way back when was like "I should make a banking and economy mod".
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: JimboM12 on October 01, 2021, 03:09:51 pm
im starting to think... all our core issues are related to the economy being rather jank. like real life.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 03:31:53 pm
I think it all comes back to the value of post-battle loot.

Not saying the economy isn't whacked in lots of other places. But I remember in M&B and Warband, a certain level of struggle being able to support a large army. The name of the game there was post battle loot too. But it didn't like it was worth as much and there were fewer ways to reduce upkeep cost. I remember at one moment in Warband where I had a really successful battle, upgraded a bunch of troops at once, and went from a positive daily upkeep value to deep into the negatives, just from upgrading like 20 troops to higher tiers. That just doesn't seem to happen in Bannerlord, or if it does, it's super easy to offset.

Not that I particularly want to be scraping to get by as a T5 clan with 100 troops, but due to money, so many things feel like they like context or impact. "Oh no, I'm $2k a day in the hole on upkeep." *sells 14k worth of post battle loot.* "Gee I guess that buys me two weeks of upkeep...." *sells another 14k of post battle loot the very next day.* "Oh guess I'm ok, guess I'll just go buy that T5 armor I've been looking at."

It's true, you don't end up with a stack of $1k denar swords very easily....but what you DO get, is a stack of 15 rusty swords that sell for 150 a piece. Everything gear-related needs to come down in sale price, so the perks that remove those sale penalties don't end up making everything stupidly profitable. Straight up trade goods have several controls on them: availability, carrying capacity, time investment traveling, price fluctuation. All those serve to keep trade goods largely in balance. Equipment? "We don't care if you just sold us 300 rusty pitchforks, we're always in the market for new rusty pitchforks!" Prices on gear should fluctuate just like the price of trade goods. There shouldn't always be the same market for a $10k sword in the same city all the time, or every city. And lastly, in terms of just product availability....gear is endless. There will ALWAYS be more bandits to hunt. They were always be more bandits to hunt at any given moment than you can possibly chase down. There is no end to that resource, so it's easy to exploit.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 01, 2021, 03:35:50 pm
Well... kind of? But clearly T-dubs is trying to tie adventuring and mercenaries, etc. more in with the lord stuff through the expanded economy. IMO, there's a bit of a lack of emphasis at the strategic/world map level.

What I mean is, it's not just the economy. In a game about being a NOBLE CIRCLE OF ADVENTURERS or a HARDENED BAND OF MERCENARIES... it's a lot easier to just be a merchant or a blacksmith. Which, I mean, I appreciate the expansion of the world and what we can do in it--but it feels a bit like a bit of a chore to be a mercenary captain in a game about being a captain of mercenaries.

The politicking, the interpersonal relationships, the economy--all good things IMO (vassalage... ehhhhh), but there's a bit too much maintenance and management and not enough ME HIT COOL SWORD GUY NOW (and other epic battles). I'd appreciate it if they just toned down the realism a bit and focused more on whats fun to do. Also... a shitton of quests would be nice, but we'll get there one way or the other.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 01, 2021, 03:42:25 pm
I think it all comes back to the value of post-battle loot.

Not saying the economy isn't whacked in lots of other places. But I remember in M&B and Warband, a certain level of struggle being able to support a large army. The name of the game there was post battle loot too. But it didn't like it was worth as much and there were fewer ways to reduce upkeep cost. I remember at one moment in Warband where I had a really successful battle, upgraded a bunch of troops at once, and went from a positive daily upkeep value to deep into the negatives, just from upgrading like 20 troops to higher tiers. That just doesn't seem to happen in Bannerlord, or if it does, it's super easy to offset.

Not that I particularly want to be scraping to get by as a T5 clan with 100 troops, but due to money, so many things feel like they like context or impact. "Oh no, I'm $2k a day in the hole on upkeep." *sells 14k worth of post battle loot.* "Gee I guess that buys me two weeks of upkeep...." *sells another 14k of post battle loot the very next day.* "Oh guess I'm ok, guess I'll just go buy that T5 armor I've been looking at."

It's true, you don't end up with a stack of $1k denar swords very easily....but what you DO get, is a stack of 15 rusty swords that sell for 150 a piece. Everything gear-related needs to come down in sale price, so the perks that remove those sale penalties don't end up making everything stupidly profitable. Straight up trade goods have several controls on them: availability, carrying capacity, time investment traveling, price fluctuation. All those serve to keep trade goods largely in balance. Equipment? "We don't care if you just sold us 300 rusty pitchforks, we're always in the market for new rusty pitchforks!" Prices on gear should fluctuate just like the price of trade goods. There shouldn't always be the same market for a $10k sword in the same city all the time, or every city. And lastly, in terms of just product availability....gear is endless. There will ALWAYS be more bandits to hunt. They were always be more bandits to hunt at any given moment than you can possibly chase down. There is no end to that resource, so it's easy to exploit.
Yeah, equipment needs to vary in price/availability.  Heck, give higher-tier troops an upkeep of appropriate-tier metal (and uh, put metal on the market.  It's so strange only the player ever sells it).  And/or require it for the action of upgrading, like how certain troops require horses.  (Technically the upgrade ought to require finished weapons and armor, but this is a game.  Abstract that out, obviously)

Starving a town is easy but also mostly pointless.  Depriving a nation of metal ores and harassing refined metal caravans should help stop them from summoning up more "elite" troops so quickly.

And yes, flooding the market with rusty swords should drive the price down.  It's weird.
Yeah, the economy system has a ton of potential that's just not being used too much right now.
And I don't just want this economic stuff because numbers-go-up, either.  Smithing is already too lucrative for that to matter, though it did get me thinking "There should be a way for these megabucks to help win wars".

The sort of high-volume workshop I was talking about should be a precarious arrangement, disrupted by war and banditry.  If supplies of raw materials are cut off by villages and caravans being raided, that should *hurt*.  If the town changes hands...  I'm not even sure what should happen.  If I buy a workshop now and later my liege goes to war with the town's liege, I don't know if the game revokes it or what.  I'd certainly understand if workshops belonging to an enemy clan got seized.  Maybe, in some circumstances (under certain kingdom laws?) even neutral clan-workshops might get seized by desperate or greedy nobles.  This would never be done if your clan serves with honor under the same banner, of course.

Mostly this is to keep a factionless trader-clan-cartel from gaining control of the *entire* economy with complete impunity.  Likewise, and to keep that run interesting (this is a game about battle), such a character should have a chance to "dispute" the seizure (recapture the workshop) within a reasonable time frame.  The rest of the faction remains neutral because this noble/clan acted extralegaly, in a manner likely to incite popular rebellion.

The endgame for such a character still ends up being paint-the-map if only because the constant warfare hurts profits.  Just through subtler means, money and roguery.  A lot of options, even trying to intentionally weaken a town financially, should carry some risk of being branded a criminal by that faction for some time.

Anyway it's fun to imagine :)  I'm only obsessed with this because so much of the groundwork is already there.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 01, 2021, 03:46:41 pm
I just wish we had more at that level between small fry mercenary and internationally known feudal lord!

Like... if you have workshops you should have problems with thugs and the local nobles, etc. quests revolving around that stuff to keep it interesting and different than say a merc or a lord.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 03:50:18 pm
Quote
but there's a bit too much maintenance and management and not enough ME HIT COOL SWORD GUY NOW (and other epic battles).

I guess I feel the opposite. I'm regularly doing 200+ battles and auto-resolving them because I know: a) with no companion death, I don't need to worry about them b) my losses are trivial and easily replaced. I fight the battles manually because it IS epic, but after your 30 or 40th large battle you're like....do I even need to bother? All I'm really guaranteeing at that point is that I'm going to lose HP, and possibly get knocked out, and not be able to participate in tournaments until I heal up. Now that my skills are so high I don't even have the skill up incentive to shoot guys with a bow or cut them down with melee weapons.

In a way I think it's similar to like, Total Warhammer 2. Tough game when you HAVE to fight the battles out, but then you just get a numerical advantage in the # of troops or armies you're bringing and suddenly everything can be auto-resolve without much worry, and then the game becomes a grind. The difficulty is rather front-loaded.

Like I feel like there's not a lot to maintenance and management in Bannerlord. Have enough gold to build the right projects in your fiefs to offset the problems they're facing, pick a good governor, swing back through every week or so to top off their project reserves. There really isn't any management to be done from my perspective.

About the only real annoyance I find is that once you've got some fiefs, if you want them to be optimal, you're constantly having to protect them from raiding from enemy kingdoms. Which is fine. Except when you have to ride back and forth across your fiefdom, and as soon as you reach one end of your fiefdom to defend one village, one on the opposite side gets attacked. Sure, I could make a new party and order them to be defensive and they'd protect my fiefs....until the AI just straight up derps and gets into fights it can't win, gets captured, you lose that party and that companion until you can pay their ransom and put them back into play.

But frankly, the Merc/Ass Kicker is the easiest and most profitable way to play IMO. The bigger the foes you tangle with, the more money you can make. And then you add in supplementary income from trading, workshops, caravans, smithing, prisoners and fief ownership and the world is pretty much your oyster.

Also another weird/dumb observation: auto-resolving battles means no escapees, ever. If you don't like bandits escaping, or lords escaping, auto-resolve. If you win, they'll never escape the battle. It's way better for the "Needs Manual Laborers" quest to just auto-resolve battles against looters and what not, because on average (unless you're rocking a blunt weapon and doing most of the work) way more of them will survive as prisoners than if you fight the battle manually. And it's about 5x faster doing it that way than fighting every single battle you can't possibly lose and having to run down all the routed bandits in the battlescape.

Quote
Like... if you have workshops you should have problems with thugs and the local nobles, etc. quests revolving around that stuff to keep it interesting and different than say a merc or a lord.

What keeps coming back to me is...if you visit a city with really low loyalty, there should be random events where you're attacked in the streets by unhappy citizenry. There's exactly zero reason for civilian clothes and equipment if you're not doing criminal activities right now.

Quote
If supplies of raw materials are cut off by villages and caravans being raided, that should *hurt*.  If the town changes hands...  I'm not even sure what should happen.

Pretty sure that when a city you had a workshop in gets conquered, by anyone, you just straight up lose the workshop.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 01, 2021, 05:40:44 pm
If youre independent I think your workshops are fine if a city changes hands
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 07:25:29 pm
I've now fought in the neighborhood of 10 battles for the village of Talivel in the last 4 days. Slain 3 Vlandian lords in the process. Yet still they come. I check their Clans. They're breeding them as fast as I can kill them. One clan has 7 babies in the waiting. It is pretty damn annoying that the AI doesn't seem to take the hint. Literally one lord after another, evenly spaced, head for the village, a conga-line of annoyance. I walk away from the village until they engage then come back and nab them as they try to flee due to the speed penalty from raiding. Meanwhile my other fiefs are getting raided and the damn Main Quest keeps giving me shit to do on the other side of Calradia. Getting a little annoyed at the demands for my presence.

And then the game crashed. Lol.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 01, 2021, 08:34:52 pm
Yeah the lords recover their troops pretty quickly once they escape or you release them-
Quote
Slain
Ohoho, that's a different matter.

I haven't tried that yet, but I've been kinda tempted at times (particularly with the Lagetan rebellion lead by lich emperor Arenicos).  The thing is - and I only know this from old Reddit posts, so maybe it has changed - killing a noble of a culture might royally piss off all the notables of that culture, including village leaders and such.  Not by faction, but by culture.

If true, that means I have a really good reason never to execute an Imperial.  Quite a legacy for a bloated, fallen realm.
Whereas Vlandians should be very thankful for my mercy, considering what a pain in my ass they've been.  I want to pay them "all the moneys" to join Battania, since they like me so much for sparing them, but I'm not sure that's an option unless I'm an independent ruler.  And why would I do that?

...Actually I have every reason to start a new nation given the opportunity.  The person I swore to protect died almost instantly in a really dumb way.  I can form neo-Battania, with Vlandians and indoor plumbing, and still stay true to my Battanian culture.

But you know I can't resist the bitter irony of naming my Battanian nation after my precious capital, Lageta <3
You may rest in peace, Arenicos, once I do what you failed to accomplish - the Lagetan Free State.

this got away from me
Edit: Wait what if I form the Lagetan Free State and pay Arenicos to join my cause omgs
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2021, 09:02:21 pm
I didn't Execute them, if that's what you mean. There's a chance that any non-player character owned notable can die if they're downed in battle. I feel like it's on the order of 5 to 10%, but, I've killed at least 5 Vlandian nobles in my game in battle (out of the 40+ nobles they have or have had.) It's nice because the Bannerlord accepts that as the cost of doing business and you don't lose any rep over it, not even if you were the one to deal the killing blow (which I seem to have penchant for, probably because I flank with my cavalry and the AI lords count themselves as cavalry and sit on the flanks of their army. Even then, the # of times I'm the middle of a skirmish and seen an enemy cavalry go by, and either chased them or shot them down and killed a lord surprises me. It's one of those special moments in battle you look for.)

Or, if you do lose rep for slaying enemy lords in battle, the game chooses not to inform you. I've got maybe -3 reputation with the average Vlandian lord and that's after like 10 wars where I'm downing between 10 and 20 of them a war? So yeah, fight enough battles you'll start killing off lords (and run enough armies and you'll see your own allied lords die too.) But the game I feel just auto-corrects by having them have more children. I suspect there's some kind of clan population controls in place to keep entire kingdoms from getting wiped out in simulation. And I think Executing does lose you rep with at least every lord in the opposing faction.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 01, 2021, 09:12:05 pm
Ah, I assumed wrong!  Yeah I see nobles (both on the winning and losing side, though probably weighted to the losing) die, and 5-10% of the time sounds correct.  Probably closer to 5%.  That's how my Liege Caladog died. 

I wonder if armor provides any defense, or the manner in which they're defeated?  In Warband of course nobles would magically flee if you "killed" them, but if you used blunt weapons (which have certainly never caused ANYONE permanent harm) they would be captured.  I haven't looked into it. 

It's a nice bonus when an enemy commander perishes, even when they like me for repeatedly releasing them.  Because relation is per-clan, a change I really appreciate.  Their clan survives, rewarding my generosity.  Yet it's one less enemy commander roaming around.

Edit: But unless it changed at some point:  Executing anybody might make you person-non-grata for that entire culture.  Something to consider.

Edit2: If any Battanians ask, I definitely don't release our enemies.
I actually stopped doing that, specifically because I saw how it grants us better negotiation status to have prisoners.  Since we keep having to truce with Vlandians and Western Empire, I'm doing my part.  At my own expense, bleh.  But it help the nation.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 02, 2021, 05:14:34 am
Nobles aren't worth much in the grand scheme of things. I think 6k is the most I've ever seen offered for one. Nice cash but there's a point where reducing their ability to field armies is almost priceless. When you're thinking at that scale, $20k really ain't that much.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 04, 2021, 12:21:43 pm
Things are going well in my game.

I finally got around to really getting involved with leading armies, and I must say that I like whatever rebalance they did with the influence costs for that. Last time I played it was a struggle to keep enough influence to do much, but this time I've always had several hundred on hand so my limitations have been due to lack of troops or the other leaders all being in armies already.

In any case, with me actually being in command of some forces we've made great strides. Rather than trading Sargot back and forth every war we're actually holding territory. We now have Sargot and Charas plus all the surrounding castles in the south. After the last few swaps I elected to take Charas for myself over Sargot, since the AI always goes for Sargot first. Definitely looking to take Jaculan as my next fief, but I want to be able to give it a full garrison immediately afterwards since it'll be a prime target for revenge attacks. So I've been biding my time and buliding up Charas' garrison so that I'll have a strong base of troops to pull from.

I've also been doing strange things the AI would never consider doing...like plopping my army in Sargot to defend it rather than letting it get taken in the first place. Works like a charm, especially when you've got a noble bow and 3 stacks of arrows on you. I killed off nearly 60 people by myself in that defense.

I'm also generally focusing myself on wars with Vlandia and using wartime with the Empire or Sturgia as chances to rebuild my forces rather than leading armies around.

The results are very noticeable. The AI only seems to ever have 2 armies up and running at a time, so whenever I bring up a 3rd it shifts things considerably in our favor. And while we've taken a good chunk of territory from Vlandia all the other borders are fairly stagnant. A city or castle will change hands on occasion but are generally regained shortly after.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2021, 12:28:21 pm
That's cool!  IIRC there's an option, probably in the kingdom page, to dissolve friendly armies using influence.  I haven't tried it yet (or formed an army) but it sounds useful if you need more troops.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 04, 2021, 12:33:40 pm
That's good to know. I'll have to try that at some point, especially when one of our armies is just faffing about in interior of Battania rather than going out and doing something.

Another thing I've noticed is that the AI doesn't care too much about castles. Towns it'll always target in a war, but I've held a former Western Empire castle for a long time now and they just don't seem to care. Sure, they'll try and grab a castle as an opportunistic attack, but I don't see the laser-focus "we must get our land back" with castles the way they do with towns.

Makes having a castle as your first/primary holding actually pretty useful.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 05, 2021, 10:01:05 am
Quote
but I want to be able to give it a full garrison immediately afterwards since it'll be a prime target for revenge attacks. So I've been biding my time and buliding up Charas' garrison so that I'll have a strong base of troops to pull from.

Jaculan can be a tough nut to crack. It's got quite a large garrison due to all the militia from 4 villages. I went at it with about ~750 troops vs. their 500 garrison and they absolutely ate me alive. I don't really like prolonged sieges. All it really does is give the AI time to form an army to come stomp your guts out. So I tried rushing a siege at Jaculan, and I'd barley killed 100 of them by the time they'd slain over half my army.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2021, 11:19:27 am
Have anyone of you gone independent yet? I'm definitely betraying Caladog (he betrayed me first - remember when he promised me 20 000 for retaking Llanoc Hen then just cancelled the quest once I did? Well, Battannia remembers, and my falx will reap the sweet wheat of his treachery), having seized almost the entirety of southern Vlandia for myself over time as it was won and lost from and back to the Vlandians over the years. I would like to have some more property in Battannia proper but unfortunately my presence in the war has come to meant very few territorial losses in the heartlands, and convincng people to redistribute holdings over to me is a hard sell even with the relationship to the majority of Battannian clans at 100.

This is about as far as I have come before in my many fresh starts. I'm unsure how to actually get other clans to join you, and whether or not I will have enough parties to even stand a chance once I found my own realm.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 05, 2021, 11:32:54 am
Quote
but I want to be able to give it a full garrison immediately afterwards since it'll be a prime target for revenge attacks. So I've been biding my time and buliding up Charas' garrison so that I'll have a strong base of troops to pull from.

Jaculan can be a tough nut to crack. It's got quite a large garrison due to all the militia from 4 villages. I went at it with about ~750 troops vs. their 500 garrison and they absolutely ate me alive. I don't really like prolonged sieges. All it really does is give the AI time to form an army to come stomp your guts out. So I tried rushing a siege at Jaculan, and I'd barley killed 100 of them by the time they'd slain over half my army.

Hmm, good to know. Sounds like I'll need a whole ton of high level troops for that. Which I guess is next on my list to do, then, as my garrison at Charas is pretty much ready to go.


@Scriver: No, I haven't tried independence in Bannerlord yet. Very curious to see how it works out for you, though, as I am in a similar situation (my holdings are all in and around Southern Vlandia).
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 05, 2021, 11:49:07 am
If it's anything like Warband, you'll declare independence and every faction in the game will hear the dinner bell ringing and come to take a bite. I tried that all of once in Warband and was like "fuck this, I don't have two years to work on this campaign."
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2021, 12:08:19 pm
@Scriver: No, I haven't tried independence in Bannerlord yet. Very curious to see how it works out for you, though, as I am in a similar situation (my holdings are all in and around Southern Vlandia).

It's a very Battannia-friendly environment, what with the vast forests of the Galen-Jaculan-Sargot stretch.

Also very nice since the Rhodoks were my favourite faction in the first game/s and that is Rhodok country (my first conquest was even Veluca castle and village, which has to be what becomes Veluca in the future. God does it bother me that they named Sargot Sargot though)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2021, 05:40:36 pm
Damn, Caladog really wanted to marry my sister. He gave me literally all of his money (60K or so) for her hand in marriage.

I'll miss having her running around being a merchant, but I think she just paid for herself.

In other news, I'm finally trying a go at Jaculon. Last war we fought I spent the entire time fending off armies from Sargot. This time we crushed their first army quickly and have pivoted to go on the attack with a 900 strong army I'm leading.

We'll see how this goes.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 11, 2021, 06:16:14 pm
This has been my problem. Every time I'm ready to go after Jaculan there's other things going on or I'm defending my own fief from 1.2 million Vlandian lords with parties of <100. Too small to catch with a fully formed siege army, too big to ignore.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2021, 06:27:55 pm
Yeah, really wish I could I coordinate with the other armies. At the very least give them suggestions like "Hey, I think Ochs hall would be a good target" or something. Forcing the Vlandians to split their attention would be a huge boon.

If this assault doesn't pan out I may try to take Ochs hall myself next. See if we can give them a target to try and take back that isn't in the south so I'm not spending all my time on the defensive.

At least taking Charas for myself was a good call. It hasn't been assaulted once in the past few wars since I've kept their attention on Sargot. Which means someone else's town is the one that's been sacked and retaken a few times while my holdings are allowed to prosper in peace.

Oh, does anyone here know how governors actually work compared to the player's Stewardship? I'm assuming all my holdings that are left without a governor just use my bonuses, but I can't seem to find any good confirmation on it. Just lots of conjecture.

Given that I have a stewardship of over 150 now, I'm assuming that I am better off not having governors.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 11, 2021, 08:48:46 pm
I thought they didn't get any Steward bonuses. You don't passively earn Stewardship just because you own fiefs, so.....

I took Charas and intentionally didn't try to claim it for myself, on the hopes that it'd make my bid for Jaculan easier and I wouldn't have constantly watch the SW approach to it.

But of course, the Battanians that won it couldn't hold it for more than a season or two. Should just said screw it and taken that army to Jaculan instead.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 12, 2021, 12:12:18 am
I wonder if Stewardship has an effect while you're waiting in a town you rule (the incomplete wiki says that this is one way to boost the skill) but I'm pretty sure the perks marked (Governor) only apply for followers you've specifically assigned - you don't passively grant them to your governor-less fiefs.  I could be wrong though.

And it sorta sucks if some of the perks you can take as a player do nothing at all, or only work while you're camping a fief.  Particularly when the other perk choices are so important as an army leader.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 12, 2021, 10:59:00 am
The only real function of Steward for the Army Leader is if they're serving as Quartermaster in the party. That's the best way to get the skill up.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 12, 2021, 11:55:15 am
Yeah, I've quartermaster of my group and that's raised my stewardship really high.

Hmm, didn't realize that the governor perks don't work for the player. That kinda sucks, then. I'll have to play with it, see if I can figure out how to make the best use of my fiefs.

I really wish there was better documentation in the game on how stuff like this works.

In better news, I've got Jaculan now! It was a rough fight, but most of the enemies were militia so we didn't lose nearly as many of our own as I'd feared. In a big stroke of luck, one of the AI armies took the castle just north of it right after I grabbed the town, so I even have a buffer fief to help protect me.

Now I'm back dealing with the Western empire since they are pushing in on our borders to the east. I took one of the southern castles and beat back several armies in that area, but they've taken some territory to the north of me that I may need to go help take back.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Micro102 on October 29, 2022, 03:50:55 am
Well well well.... Seems like this game is finally out of early access. So.... Is it a buggy mess? As good or better than the first warband? Because I could go for another game as fun as M&B Warband 1.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sirus on October 29, 2022, 09:26:20 am
I haven't noticed any outstanding bugs yet, but then I tend to replay the early game a lot because things are a bit simpler at that level. No need to worry about the various lords riding around with retinues double my own, no need to build influence for some vague reasons, no need to sign my life over to a faction only for that faction to immediately get curbstomped and my painstakingly-raised army to vanish into the earth. Just me and my little clan, fighting bandits and doing odd jobs while gradually building my forces and skills.

That said I have participated in a few large-scale battles in one file, from a field battle between armies with more than 1400 troops total to a number of siege assaults. I do think the AI in those assaults needs some work, because if I can get around behind a group of defenders (at the exit point of a siege tower for example) I've noticed that the defenders will essentially ignore me. I can swing into their backs and they might turn to bring their shields up after a whack or two, make a couple of retaliatory swings, but if I back off a few steps they go back to facing the attacking army and leave me with clean targets once more. The attacking AI can also get temporarily stuck at times, bunching up in an area despite no obvious resistance until they hit some critical mass/receive orders and run off to do something.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 29, 2022, 10:13:08 am
Haven't checked it out since release, but a few months ago I did a reasonably long run. Ended up lord of a big city and did lots of large army work. Didn't notice any major bugs at the the time, though the AI also wasn't that great then either.

Still, I'd say it's at least as fun as Warband and has some neat new stuff that I really enjoy. The family dynamics add a really good touch and the various siege weapons make sieges much more interesting to be involved in.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sirus on October 29, 2022, 12:11:40 pm
Me and my big mouth  ::)

The game crashed hard enough to CTD in a perfectly innocuous battle against a dozen looters. Fortunately it was able to log the crash and I uploaded it, with any luck it's something that can be fixed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 29, 2022, 02:19:10 pm
Well well well.... Seems like this game is finally out of early access. So.... Is it a buggy mess? As good or better than the first warband? Because I could go for another game as fun as M&B Warband 1.

The game has largely been crash free for me for months. (I bought at the start of Early Access.)

Most of the bugs were harder to notice, like things just not working properly as opposed to outright being completely fucked. I kept up with patch notes over Early Access and many of them I never experienced.

I'd say performance has also gotten markedly better for me. The game no longer leaks memory like crazy. It loads faster. Battles tend to perform better, and I've done a few 1000+ v 1000+ battles. Frames may still drop a little when literally in a large battle is within your field of view but overall performance is much better now.

As for how fun is it....It's M&B++. More in-depth character building and fun choices to make as you level, dynasty mechanics, aging mechanics, faction and kingdom mechanics. Weapon crafting, city-based gameplay (apparently fighting thieves and taking over their turf went live as well, haven't tried it.) Better and grander sieges with siege weapons and better ways to control things. Deployment screens for battles so you can set up your army before it fights. UI for controlling your army during a battle as opposed to purely keyboard commands. And of course better graphics, animations, music, sound effects. They even add some voice acting right before release. Everything is just better for the most part versus Warband.

What hasn't changed is that the game still has, and will probably always have, that feeling of being a generic simulator. That never really disappears no matter how many features they add. To me that's just M&B's defining vibe so I'm ok with it. If someone was expecting the game to break into AAA and for that vibe to disappear or be hidden behind all the polish....they will be disappointed.

All in all it's a total upgrade to M&B and Warband in my mind. Not everyone is going to agree with me, and some stuff like the economy will probably never be perfect. But I've got 300 hours in it since EA with more to come. So it's a recommend from me.

Maybe this means I can finally stop deleting my save game. I've no joke restarted this Battanian campaign at least 8 times as new stuff dropped throughout EA. (Or Battania just shit the bed and lost half its territory before my first kid was born.)
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Persus13 on October 29, 2022, 02:27:27 pm
For me I guess the big question is does Bannerlord have a Lord of the Rings mod yet. Because probably half my playtime in Warband is that.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on October 29, 2022, 02:34:52 pm
It doesn't, at least in the Steam Workshop.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: MCreeper on October 29, 2022, 02:55:58 pm
Odd how first lewd mod on nexus for this game is on 16th page. Usually they are one of the very first ones.

And for me the required mod is Touhou one, but there hadn't been any news about it for a long time.  :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Persus13 on October 29, 2022, 04:29:43 pm
Ah well, I'm sure a LOTR mod will come along eventually. And the workshop for Bannerlord is only two weeks old now, right?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Astral on October 29, 2022, 07:16:56 pm
I'm hoping for a Phantasy Calradia equivalent; or maybe Solid and Shade to make it to a modern version of M&B someday.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Robsoie on October 29, 2022, 07:41:01 pm
Speaking about LOTR, what i find amazing is that The Last Days is still continuously updated on Warband with new things.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Persus13 on October 29, 2022, 08:31:35 pm
Speaking about LOTR, what i find amazing is that The Last Days is still continuously updated on Warband with new things.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on October 29, 2022, 10:38:27 pm
Speaking about LOTR, what i find amazing is that The Last Days is still continuously updated on Warband with new things.
Agreed.

The Last Days is a great mod, I'd be glad to see it back again for Bannerlord.

I haven't had any CTD since Bannerlord was released. It doesn't seem terribly buggy. Both that come to mind are visual bugs, one of outlines of parties under the map and another of the highlight outline in scenes on interactable objects appears off the object.

Here are some screenshots:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm not sure if this is a bug or stupendous luck, but when I started a campaign for the release version the campaign's brother was offered a marriage on the very first day.
It was before I had made it to the village in the tutorial where you meet the headman, or right afterwards.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This very excellent outcome, as marriages almost are never that easy, was entirely squandered by my too early bribery for city keep access and Roguery skill increases causing me to go broke without hiring enough troops to beat a small Looter party in the autocalculate simulation.

I think Battania has the best cultural bonus, with being able to move through forests significantly faster. It makes chasing smaller parties so much shorter of a chase.

I went Vlandian for the last beta character I made. The mercenary contracts work pretty well if you are chasing bandits and individual noble armies, but it was pretty awful if you join an army, the income slows way down and you can't hold fiefs. Joining your party to the army the ai is driving around is risking the player's whole party and finding all the different taverns your named minions re-emerge at some days after a defeat when they are released or escape. I was offered to join Vlandia and did after a while as a mercenary, nullifying one of the Vlandia bonuses for mercenary pay. The extra renown would be good for a long time though.  I also ran into the problem of the Vlandians never having to retake Vlandian cities or castles, so I always ended up with Varcheg as my clan holding, and without a decent governor to offset the loyalty penalty. I made this character a crossbow and one handed fighter type.

I think now that it's released I'll see if I can complete the campaign and so I made the post-release character an Imperial start for the lower garrison wages, so I can fill garrisons with higher tier troops for cheaper in case I need them. I put as many points into Roguery skill and Cunning trait to see how fancy the loot can get now. I'm fighting the mounted bandits that spawn from caravan escort quests mostly, and they are dropping Fine and Waxed armor variants and Fine and Masterwork versions of their low tier weapons, so the loot is much improved from earlier access. I might equip my named minions with loot instead of grinding smithing for weapons and weapon sales to pay for vendor armor. I have been doing so and due to the reliable supply of the same bandit variant with the caravan escort quests all my newly hired companions are wearing the same furred outfit, as it has the better statistics out of what that bandit variant drops.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My character is draped in only the finest of the bandit loot unpillaged so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The exception is the fancy cape-and-harness shoulder item, that was won in the arena.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sirus on October 29, 2022, 11:35:02 pm
I'm not sure if this is a bug or stupendous luck, but when I started a campaign for the release version the campaign's brother was offered a marriage on the very first day.
If it's a bug, it hit me as well. Almost as soon as I left the training yard, in came a marriage proposal for my brother from (IIRC) the viking folks.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2022, 04:23:52 am
Goddamn furries
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2022, 07:52:37 am
FFS gamers

I'm failing at winning Bagh Chal, obviously for the quest Inn and Out since there's no way I'd play these stupid games otherwise and it's the only reason to play them. In that quest, you always start as wolves.

So I'm trying to get some tips of how to play it and not lose, looking at old reddit threads and youtube videos. And every single tutorial out there. Begins by saying. "always play sheep cuz it's easier"

I wouldn't even be here if I didn't need help with the hard parts, you moron. Why even make this if you're not going to be helpful. It's like making a video on baking a cake and then starting it with "always buy store cake it's easier here I'm gonna show you how to pick one out and pay for it"

It's so fucking frustrating
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Sirus on October 31, 2022, 01:00:51 pm
It may be those tutorials are old, perhaps from a version when you always got to choose which side you'd play in one of the board games. Either that or playing games can (or was) actually be lucrative enough that be worth doing on one's own time.

Personally I don't bother doing that quest unless I have a companion I can send to do it for me. High Tactics helps a lot.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on October 31, 2022, 01:11:54 pm
Yeah, never got into any of the board games myself.

Does seem odd that their aren't any up to date tutorials on them, though, if that's the case.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on October 31, 2022, 01:18:35 pm
It's only 500 gold but I enjoy doing it sometimes.  I mostly play the Imperial castle-defense game and watch the AI flounder helplessly as attackers.  It constantly moves into capture positions for no benefit, and seems to have a 50% or less chance of noticing when it can capture.  It does pay attention to the king, though... usually.  It'll only allow the king an unhassled escape path like 10-25% of the time, maybe.  Either way, easy.

I haven't gotten the hang of playing offense myself though, and I've lost at least one Inn And Out by being forced into that position.  Yet last night I was "forced" to play defense for that mission, so I guess it's random.  I think the AI is too king-centric, so it's able to guide its king to the edge of the board while I focus on finding captures.  Works great for me as white, not as black.

I've been kinda enjoying the backgammon-esque game in the East too.  It's much less reliable but more exciting, since it's largely luck...  But there's enough strategy to have a good edge.  I don't play it for money, but I play against nobles in keeps sometimes which seems to give some skill points and/or renown.

I didn't get the instant marriage request for my brother, it took a month or two before someone asked.  I probably should have denied it and used him politically but eh, I decided to imagine it was his decision.  Probably not a bad idea for him to get to work on the dynasty ASAP.

Edit: Oh a note about the Imperial board game:  If you move the king out it can be captured against the castle, like the instructions warn, but other pieces usually can not.  (its possible that moving the king makes the center square count as hostile, I haven't checked).  Usually moot because it's easy to win without moving the king at all, or waltzing out past a decimated enemy.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2022, 05:27:57 pm
Right after I posted that I found this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zHttwsM6xM) that actually showcased wolves and was pretty useful.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on November 13, 2022, 04:14:16 am
So what's the highest distance shot folks have landed? I think the best I've hit is about 200m, but documented with a screenshot I've got 150m.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on November 13, 2022, 08:31:57 pm
Right after I posted that I found this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zHttwsM6xM) that actually showcased wolves and was pretty useful.
That was entertaining.  Since I lack the file space to play this game probably for a while, it'll have to do.  :P
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Funk on November 16, 2022, 07:23:57 am
About 230, with guns, 100 odd with crossbows an 140 ish with a bow.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: nenjin on November 16, 2022, 02:18:04 pm
With guns, I assume you're talking about Fire & Sword?

I should add the weapon, that's legit. My best I believe is 200m-ish with a Short Bow.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Funk on November 18, 2022, 12:35:02 pm
No, it was in a Russian civil war mod, so it was like a lazer beam.
A lot of the archery was aim at the sky or at huge siege blobs.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Duuvian on November 20, 2022, 04:21:22 am
I hit a distant shot at high elevation with an Arbalest on swarm of enemies retreating from a siege attempt they had lost. They all followed the same route and grouped together so it was a large target. I didn't screenshot it but the arc was extremely high.

My days remaining to finish quest is getting pretty low, so I'm going to have to join a faction for an Imperial city to start the quest kingdom with. Steam discussion forums said you can leave the faction and the quest nullifies their aggression at you; anyone know if this works before this is my last resort? I'm getting close to 300 days remaining.

I took a Cunning based character and did a grind for Roguery to see how loot drops are now after the changes. For finishing the campaign I think a stewardship focus for a bigger player army to take a rebel city would be easier. I think I can do it if I replace all these bandit troops that raise Roguery with top tier faction troops, but Stewardship and a bigger party would help for that more than how I built the character.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on November 29, 2022, 01:33:51 am
So, I'm ready to go forward with the Bannerlord Quest. Who should I give the banner to, or should I go it alone?

I haven't fiddled with kingdom creation in Bannerlord, and I'm playing Ironman, so...probably not going to make my own kingdom. I'm also Tier 2...
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Rolan7 on November 29, 2022, 09:47:27 am
I went with Battania myself.  I consider the empire to be "bad" (for Lageta, if nothing else) though Battania has its issues too.  Mainly I wanted easy access to wood to grind smithing.

The thing you should know about the Banner is that the person you betray (the imperial or the survivor of cultural genocide) will launch a scheme against you.  This spawns missions with no reward, and they're often on the other side of the continent.  Sometimes it merely spawns special raiders around your holdings, easy enough, but the weapons caravans always seem to be very far away.  The caravans are also just tough fights, and their soldiers cannot be taken prisoner for some reason.

If you ignore these missions the plot will progress a little.  I think on completion it unites the appropriate factions in a final war against you... not ideal.  I don't remember any significant benefit to presenting the banner, just these challenges, so maybe build up your chosen kingdom first.

I'm pretty sure you can become leader of your kingdom by accumulating influence and waiting for succession to occur.  I haven't done it though, might take a loooong time if combat death is disabled.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Mephansteras on November 29, 2022, 10:12:37 am
I've never actually done the main quest since it got completed. Is it actually worth doing, or just a pain?
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: scriver on November 29, 2022, 10:54:04 am
I'm currently on a run where I gave it to Rhagea, and then married Ira, so my children will have claim to the throne (for rp purposes). I am the upstart Vlandian lord who saved the empire.

If we put my campaign and interference with the default aside, I also do think that out of the current Imperial leaders, Rhagea seems to be the most capable one and the one that would be best for the Empire as she is both a great leader of people/popular figurehead and a decent military leader, and her heiress Ira is also very capable. No doubt the Empire is going to need a leader who can lead both the people, the state, and armies if it is to be able to hold against enemies on all sides. Arsenicos (or whatever the West Empire leader's mame os), on the other hand might be the greatest general around at this time, but he's apparently a bit politically sheepish and more or less held with strings by the setting's hyper depraved equivalent of Crassus so while he might be able to defend or even expand the empire as a ruler he's still not really an option in my mind. Of course, Rhagea's insistence of right of inheritance will probably doom the empire to decline again too, when the capable heirs dry up and we get Nero or... I can't remember the last Julian emperor. But that's just dramatically appropriate in my mind.

In general I agree more with the "destroy the empire" line of thought, though, the genocidal little shots. But it's not like any of the other kingdoms or tribal confederations would be any better --  I think that if you turn any of them into conquerors of the world you just repeat the Empire mistake with another culture on top.

The caravans are also just tough fights, and their soldiers cannot be taken prisoner for some reason.

I don't know if it's the actual reason but I assumed this was so they can't be recruited by you from your prisoner list.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Grim Portent on November 29, 2022, 01:05:36 pm
Picked up the game for the first time since full release, happy to see Sword Sisters back, was sad not to see them in the pre-release version. Surprised at how the AI throws spouses at your family. They barely hit adulthood and immediately get an offer of marriage.

Decided to sort of remake my Beta character, Rhylan the Bear, champion of the Battanians. Big guy, good with bows and two handed weapons, sworn to Battania. Rather heroic sort. Spent most of the game with no horse, fighting on foot alongside my archers. Amazing siege fighter.

Original version married the daughter of Caladog and was made king after Caladog died in battle, proceeded to thrash the Empire, Vlandians and Sturgians before I called it quits.

New iteration of the concept is more... bandit adjacent. Rhagyd the Mountain, not as good with weapons, and certainly less good of a person. Raid villages, recruit bandits, ambush vulnerable lords. Haven't sworn allegiance to any kingdom, but I don't pillage Battanian lands, preferring to raid the Vlandians and Sturgians. Conquered Varcheg from a revolt, a nice little bit of opportunism. Vlandia has been doing awfully well, they've expanded quite a bit, so I might need to sign up as a merc for the Battanians to help them retake land and do a little expanding the next time they're at war.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on November 30, 2022, 10:45:39 am
I joined Vlandia mainly because King Derthert was the first to invite me to join as a mercenary then as a vassal.
I gave him the banner, and he gave me Three holdings, two castles and a town.  Guy is decent.

Upon retrospect, I think Vlandia and their feudal government is the rightful successor of the Empire.  I was originally a bit loathsome of King Derthert, but he's grown on me.  Overall, I think Vlandia is probably among the easiest factions to unite Calradia.  They have Heavy Cavalry for the field battles, and Crossbows for the sieges.
Against most factions, just showing up leads to a win.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: Grim Portent on November 30, 2022, 11:38:28 am
Found a funny interaction between Roguery and the Conspiracy.

Partners in Crime, the perk that lets you recruit bandits all the time, works on the Conspiracy forces involved in the raiding missions. So the three initial bandit groups are a free 120 troops of mixed quality, and the war band at the end can essentially just be disbanded.

Annoyingly you can't actually recruit the Conspiracy units with it, so fighting them is probably the better thing to do in the long run because of loot and exp, but it's still amusing to me that you basically show up and they go 'oh shit, it's you. Parley?' rather than their normal violent opposition to you.
Title: Re: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord
Post by: EuchreJack on November 30, 2022, 12:08:37 pm
One thing that I found funny was how the game will have a random troop retreat from your forces, and how I had a string of Battianian Heroes bravely fleeing when I engaged groups of Looters.