Bay 12 Games Forum

Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: Saint on July 10, 2011, 07:08:42 pm

Title: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Saint on July 10, 2011, 07:08:42 pm
Content shamelessly taken from a thread on FP


Website (download is on the page): http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/)
Download mirror (0.8.0): http://bit.ly/kspv08win (http://bit.ly/kspv08win)
Extra parts: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29364470/EXTRA_EXTRA_PUT_IN_PARTS.rar (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29364470/EXTRA_EXTRA_PUT_IN_PARTS.rar)
Extra parts mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/?f36kytio353rfmo (http://www.mediafire.com/?f36kytio353rfmo)

Forum: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php)


Kerbal Space Program is a game focusing on making your own space program. Yes, that's it. But it does not end there, oh no; even though there are currently only two engines it's the almost endless combinations possible that makes this so enjoyable to play. You see, much like real space rockets this game features multistage rockets that you design and create. Setting up these multistages is easy, though it can become rather complicated when your rocket has a gazillion stages.
 There is no real goal. You might want to achieve a stable orbit around the planet or just reach for the stars. You can also satisfy your competetive side of yourself and challenge your friends to a game of "who-can-reach-the-highest-altitude".
 And have you ever wanted to prove to NASA how lousy their space rockets are? This is the time to prove to them how wrong they are in their designs!

Kerbal Space Program is currently in alpha, to quote the developers:




Propulsion:

Solid Fuel Rocket
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/solid_rocket.PNG)

Description: High thrust for a short period of time. And unlike the liquid fuel rocket its fuel is within it.

Liquid Fuel Rocket and its Tank
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/liquid_tank.PNG)
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/liquid_rocket.PNG)

Description: Moderate thrust for a longer period of time, this time can be extended by stacking fuel tanks on top of eachother
The liquid fuel rocket works by attaching the rocket muzzle itself to the end of the liquid tank.

Command & Control
Command Pod
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/Commandpod.PNG)

Description: The Kerman trio (seen in the lower right corner in-game) inhabits this pod for the duration of the flight (also their metal coffin if you so desire :v:).

S.A.S Module
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/S.A_.S_Module_.PNG)

Description: As long as this module is attached to the rocket and you hold the F key (or t to toggle), it'll apply force to attempt to keep the rocket straight. More of these will make the ship more stable but will add to the overall weight.

Structural & Aerodynamic

Decoupler
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/decoupler.PNG)

Description: attachable to the side of a module, and on it other things (such as rockets) can be attached.
When the stage that the decoupler is part of is activated, the decoupler detaches from the module it's attached to. Extremely useful.

Stacked Decoupler
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/stacked_decoupler.PNG)

Description: This decoupler is only attachable to the top/bottom of a module, and it will detach itself from the module above it when its stage is activated

Stack Tri-coupler
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/stacked_tri-coupler.PNG)

Description: You can attach 3 modules to this one while it itself is attached to a single module. However, it's not detachable itself like the decouplers.

Wings
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/wings.PNG)

Description: Aerodynamic wings that are attachable to your craft.

Utility & Scientific

Parachute
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/parachute.PNG)

Description: Attachable to anything like everything else and will extend a parachute when triggered in a stage. Its main use is to land the command pod safely in case you re-enter the planet or didn't reach space.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjQolxo1VIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGKeAxIHsMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcGWNtd5P7I



It's highly advisable to do the in-game tutorial

What do the devs have planned?
Colonization
Other planets
Shuttles
Moon
More parts
etc...

I'll probably write up my own better OP later, but I'm occupied with packing for a trip I leave for tomorrow, won't be back until the 15th.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 10, 2011, 07:38:31 pm
I've been checking this game out recently. It is amazing, both in the already present item of its simple fun, as well as the potential that this game has. I'm probably gonna do a write-up for TIGSource, but we'll see how things progress.

Now then, to the moon!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: lordcooper on July 10, 2011, 07:51:29 pm
This looks like it has potential, but is it actually fun at present?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 10, 2011, 08:16:28 pm
It feels like decoupled engines get their fuel reset. Nope, I was just reading it wrong.  Figures.
I decoupled my liquid boosters when I hit space-level (Again, nope, according to Wikipedia, I didn't even make it a third of the way.  But it looked so close!), but because of a failure, they didn't decouple, and it threw me back down into the ocean.
Whoops.
EDIT: It's probable I didn't do it right, though.  :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 10, 2011, 08:17:39 pm
Quote from: lordcooper on July 10, 2011, 07:51:29 pm
This looks like it has potential, but is it actually fun at present?

Yes.
It's never been so much fun to try to fly a rocket only to find it had a catastrophic hull integrity failure mid launch and collide into the launch tower.
It's even more fun to try to salvage that launch and make it into space with only one half your original design.

Parachute failures, even better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 10, 2011, 08:18:26 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 10, 2011, 08:16:28 pm
It feels like decoupled engines get their fuel reset.
I decoupled my liquid boosters when I hit space-level, but because of a failure, they didn't decouple, and coupled (hah) with the aforementioned bug, threw me back down into the ocean.
Whoops.

Yeah, if you de-couple with the engine still going it just continues until it runs out of fuel, they're probably fixing that next release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: The Scout on July 10, 2011, 08:23:23 pm
I tried to couple 9 fuel tanks to a 9 coupler. They're green when I put them on, then they go red a second later, making it impossible to put it on. :|
Edit: Me being stupid. Almost amde it to space....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 10, 2011, 08:41:05 pm
It bugs sometimes, you have to ajust the pieces a bit, something's blocking the link for some reason.
The devs are releasing a snap to grid and symetrical placement function to the next version to help with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 10, 2011, 08:52:50 pm
Damn.  I got to 257 KM out but because I was going straight up, didn't have enough horizontal movement to stay out there...  Gravity's a jerk sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 10, 2011, 08:57:00 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 10, 2011, 08:16:28 pm
It feels like decoupled engines get their fuel reset. Nope, I was just reading it wrong.  Figures.
I decoupled my liquid boosters when I hit space-level (Again, nope, according to Wikipedia, I didn't even make it a third of the way.  But it looked so close!), but because of a failure, they didn't decouple, and it threw me back down into the ocean.
Whoops.
EDIT: It's probable I didn't do it right, though.  :V

Worth noting that Kerbal is smaller and has less atmosphere than Earth, so using wikipedia info for orbital calculations wont work.

There's a list of orbital speeds somewhere, but the one I remember (and usually aim for) is 100,000 meters up with 2,200 m/s lateral velocity. You want to aim for 60,000 meters to get clear of air resistance.

Remember, you can't orbit by going straight up (though a sufficiently beefy rocket can achieve escape velocity).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 10, 2011, 09:29:58 pm
Spoiler: Big, I guess (click to show/hide)
Crap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: The Scout on July 10, 2011, 09:32:29 pm
Well, my giant rocket failed. When the first fuel tanks run low, the rockets fall off, instead of using the second tanks. :| Gotta make rockets for each tank. :|
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on July 10, 2011, 09:37:45 pm
This game is so much fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 10, 2011, 10:07:45 pm
Quote from: The Scout on July 10, 2011, 09:32:29 pm
Well, my giant rocket failed. When the first fuel tanks run low, the rockets fall off, instead of using the second tanks. :| Gotta make rockets for each tank. :|

No, one engine can use multiple tanks. I think they have to be stacked directly on top of the engine though. Also worth noting that fuel tanks are *heavy* (a capsule, 3 fuel tanks, and a liquid engine on overthrust wont even lift off the ground until some of the fuel is used up, lightening the ship)

My current best rocket, spoilered because I've had a lot of time to experiment.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 10, 2011, 10:10:41 pm
rofl, this game is awesome for a while! Looking forward to future improvements!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on July 10, 2011, 10:22:28 pm
Man, this game is fun already. I figured out a good 3 stage rocket that can get me 316km up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 10, 2011, 10:33:54 pm
My biggest hope in this game is that some day we can do moon landings, then blast off again and rendezvous with the orbiting command module before returning home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 10, 2011, 10:36:36 pm
This looks like the kind of thing I wish orbiter had. (Well it does, but it's a lot more complicated then this)

I like the realism orbiter brings, but if this has the potential to create ridiculously powerful semi-realistic rockets and ships I think I could get into this...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 10, 2011, 10:45:16 pm
Spoiler: Another screenshot of mine (click to show/hide)
Looks like we might have gone too deep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NewsMuffin on July 10, 2011, 11:03:58 pm
Why is Bob always freaking out?
I mean, the littlest indication that things might go wrong, and he's screaming his heart out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 10, 2011, 11:08:34 pm
I want to try this out, but is anybody having trouble getting their joystick to work? When I double click the thing to define an axis it seems to work, and then when I go to define another axis it automatically puts in the one I put in last for some reason.

Then when I finally get them all put in I go in game and none of them are working, despite the keyboard controls seeming to work just fine... why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Moghjubar on July 10, 2011, 11:08:48 pm
"Chill guys, I've got this" - Jebediah
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NewsMuffin on July 10, 2011, 11:10:44 pm
Quote from: Moghjubar on July 10, 2011, 11:08:48 pm
"Chill guys, I've got this" - Jebediah
Pretty much.
Jeb is the pilot, Bob and Bill are just there to watch.

Or it's the other way around, and Jeb is like twelve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: The Scout on July 10, 2011, 11:12:57 pm
Other 2 are :(
Jeb is :D
Then they explode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 10, 2011, 11:33:51 pm
How do you keep your rockets stable? Mine seem to like doing a dolphin dive after about a thousand feet. At least the big ones do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: The Scout on July 10, 2011, 11:42:11 pm
Loads of SAS man. If you're using the big solid fuel boosters it'll take alot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Gamerlord on July 10, 2011, 11:44:49 pm
This looks really interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Yodamaster on July 10, 2011, 11:47:27 pm
Fun little toy to play around with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 10, 2011, 11:54:27 pm
The first rocket I made, after the tuturial was 4 stages with 18 or so engines.

It ripped itself apart upon launch and nosedived right next to the launch platform in a spectacular explosion. I consider it a success.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Boksi on July 11, 2011, 12:39:36 am
Alright, I tried this game.

First rocket I made, the Doomcan, did a plain dolphin dive straight into the ground, thus living up to its name.

The next one, the Dumbcan, managed to fly somewhat far, but awkwardly and not very straight up. When it was time to activate the next stage, it totally lost control and eventually crashed.

Sadly, the Doombottle was a perfectly adequate design in all respects, flying up to 40980 meters and landing the astronauts safely in the nearby ocean.

EDIT: After testing it again, it appears the Doomcan is capable of flying into its own exhaust, causing it to explode before even hitting the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 12:45:01 am
Well, that's a kick in the teeth.
My orbital-stage rockets made it into an orbit after I jettisoned them.
The command module didn't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2011, 01:22:20 am
For good times, take one of your functioning rocket designs, and in the stage plan move your topmost engine to the bottom stage (Don't move the engine itself, just the icon in the stage plan).  Watch your rocket blow up on the launchpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 11, 2011, 01:29:57 am
Spoiler: My Best So far (click to show/hide)

Definitely a fun game with lots of potential.

So far I've found the simpler designs do better, the craft gets to a certain complexity and it will just jiggle around fall down or be too heavy for the RCS to be able to do anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NewsMuffin on July 11, 2011, 02:51:49 am
At the 'fastest' setting, Kerbal disappears at around 1100 K. Then it hits you:
Space.
You are alone.
Truly alone.

It creeped me out. I'm never going to space in real life.
Unless it is very profitable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 11, 2011, 03:07:30 am
Been trying this off an on for a few hours. I managed to get myself into a fairly stable low orbit of about 140x171 km with plenty of fuel left over to deorbit. (Probably could get even higher, but I want a nice, safe, shallow reentry.) Going to let it run a while, see how long Bill and Bob scream before they realize that no, this time they aren't going to blow up.

I've personally found that the solid fuel rockets are just too danged unstable to use unless they're directly on the centerline of the rocket. In which case it's hard to get very high since, I'm not sure, but I haven't been able to attach non-centerline liquid fuel rockets.

Fun game though, made even more "fun" by the lack of info you're given, unlike orbiter, which tends to be information overload if you don't know what's going on.

I'll be waiting to see what else this game has in store for us. I'm looking forward to missions and such.

By the way, as I was writing this, Bill and Bob stopped screaming.


Edit: Well... damn. I screwed up the reentry. Ended up coming in over land. I figured that'd be fine though, I've had the pods land safely on land before. Not this time. Just kinda exploded as soon as it touched down. Next time, aim for water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: head on July 11, 2011, 03:22:02 am
My best
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Could have gotten farther but my patience ran out


edit: used only standard parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2011, 03:54:55 am
My best is 266994 meters, all three crew KIA.  Took off the parachute to modify the design and forgot to put it back on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 04:01:30 am
*NERDGASM*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 04:12:52 am
I love playing this game while narrating it.
"Rocket reaching 47 thous- 48 thous- 49 thous; We are now entering the mesosphere"
Personally I've had my most luck so far with 90 thousand km with a simple two stage rocket. I've tried stacked fuel tanks, tricouplers and so forth with no success just yet. I've also had zero success with radial couplers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Boksi on July 11, 2011, 04:55:19 am
Yeah, simple designs are often best.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on July 11, 2011, 05:04:09 am
I didn't see any amazing explosions in your "best" screenshot.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 05:25:29 am
Success! We have achieved liftoff!
On the downside, I may have slightly overestimated the number of SRBs my launch vehicle would need, and as a result the crew had to endure 63.8 g shortly before the vehicle disintegrated. Good thing the game doesn't actually model the effects of that on them, otherwise the ground crew would've had to scrape them off the command module walls with spatulas.

Also, I love how Jebediah just keeps grinning no matter what's going on, even while the rocket is spinning wildly out of control and disintegrating. :P

Edit: Also, anyone figure out what the TT-38K Radial Decoupler does? I can't figure out how to use it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 05:28:39 am
Wow this is brilliant! I can't wait to make some whacky rockets :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 05:31:54 am
My highest is now 285km. I've still no luck in getting any kind of orbit going.
Also, I've found that 300m is the safest distance from the ground to deploy parachute, but that's expecting that the ground is at about 0meters. I still have never gotten my SAS module to not explode on impact though.
Also, best songs to listen to while playing this game? Personally I've got http://www.YoutubeRepeater.com/watch?v=UgqjnzkYPnA&s=204
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 05:36:36 am
I'd go with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8OpsPok6iQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 05:37:37 am
My first big suggestion to the creators: make side-attaching parts snap-to like core parts.  Because I've got this piece of shit-

Spoiler: Tripodunker Mark 1 (click to show/hide)

If any one of those outside pieces is even one pixel out of alignment - which is really really easy since it's six parts with two dimensions of movement each that I have to line up by eyeball - then launch turns crazygonuts as soon as I press the button.  And since side-part alignment is itself the problem, I really doubt fins are going to help it fly much.

I at least managed to fix the thing up enough that it doesn't ricochet off the tower, but I really wish I'd been recording the rocket powered rodeo of the first successful flight.  I managed to ditch the auxiliary stages before hitting dirt, and the core corkscrewed like I was trying to make it do that until it finally stabilized and made it to about 11500 meters, before it suddenly went flipping out of control a few seconds before the tanks ran dry.  Total coverage: 12000 meters vertical, 10000 lateral, 30000 as Pythagoras flies, and 60 Gees achieved.

Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 05:31:54 am
Also, best songs to listen to while playing this game? Personally I've got http://www.YoutubeRepeater.com/watch?v=UgqjnzkYPnA&s=204

I'll probably go with Farewell of Slavianka myself, but it does lend itself to slavic music of any type.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: head on July 11, 2011, 05:43:22 am
It's coming in the next version. 8.1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 05:54:34 am
Alright, tried the additional parts linked to in the OP. Some are quite nifty, but the big fuel tank and engine are waaaaaaay overpowered. Building a SSTO vehicle with those is just a matter of stacking a bunch of these big fuel tanks and attaching the engine. No challenge. I like challenge, especially when attempting something as difficult as spaceflight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:02:07 am
Can you play this at all without a joystick?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 11, 2011, 06:09:44 am
Spoiler: aw yeah (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:10:23 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 05:37:37 am
My first big suggestion to the creators: make side-attaching parts snap-to like core parts.  Because I've got this piece of shit-

Spoiler: Tripodunker Mark 1 (click to show/hide)

If any one of those outside pieces is even one pixel out of alignment - which is really really easy since it's six parts with two dimensions of movement each that I have to line up by eyeball - then launch turns crazygonuts as soon as I press the button.  And since side-part alignment is itself the problem, I really doubt fins are going to help it fly much.

I at least managed to fix the thing up enough that it doesn't ricochet off the tower, but I really wish I'd been recording the rocket powered rodeo of the first successful flight.  I managed to ditch the auxiliary stages before hitting dirt, and the core corkscrewed like I was trying to make it do that until it finally stabilized and made it to about 11500 meters, before it suddenly went flipping out of control a few seconds before the tanks ran dry.  Total coverage: 12000 meters vertical, 10000 lateral, 30000 as Pythagoras flies, and 60 Gees achieved.

The secret seems to be to completely disregard everything going to shit with the extended parts.
My best rocket has three parts that explode for no reason at the beginning and then a few space's later and I'm off, and for some reason more successful than just not using the parts that exploded.
Currently floating at a hundred thousand miles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOlowNcrBO8)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How the earth fades away could use some work, I think.
Personally I would love for the moon to be added first.
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:02:07 am
Can you play this at all without a joystick?
Yes. I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:12:32 am
Quote
Yes. I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.

Because I dont have one ^^ and don't like them. I can't find a control list anywhere? or what button fires the engines etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: andrea on July 11, 2011, 06:12:38 am
Aqizzar, just put a SAS on top of each solid booster. That will be enough to keep the rocket straight until you can throw away the boosters.

Toony... that rocket is a monster! are you trying to send them to mars? ( actually, they should die due to 300 g acceleration at launch... but their corpses will fly far)

record it and show us how far it goes!

I had a moderately successful rocket... 130K and fairly decent lateral velocity. Unluckily, not enough. the crew is now falling... I wonder if I should deploy parachute, or just see how hard it crashes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:15:41 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:12:32 am
Quote
Yes. I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.

Because I dont have one ^^ and don't like them. I can't find a control list anywhere? or what button fires the engines etc.
That's.. Exactly what I said. You don't need a joystick, I wouldn't want to use one.
The tutorial explains all the controls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:16:37 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:15:41 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:12:32 am
Quote
Yes. I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.

Because I dont have one ^^ and don't like them. I can't find a control list anywhere? or what button fires the engines etc.
That's.. Exactly what I said. You don't need a joystick, I wouldn't want to use one.
The tutorial explains all the controls.

Wheres the Tutorial? I clicked start an then see launch pad and the rocketmaker, didnt see any tutorial option :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 06:17:48 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:10:23 am
I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.

To get analog control over your rocket?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:19:25 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:16:37 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:15:41 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:12:32 am
Quote
Yes. I don't personally see why you would play it with a joystick.

Because I dont have one ^^ and don't like them. I can't find a control list anywhere? or what button fires the engines etc.
That's.. Exactly what I said. You don't need a joystick, I wouldn't want to use one.
The tutorial explains all the controls.

Wheres the Tutorial? I clicked start an then see launch pad and the rocketmaker, didnt see any tutorial option :(
Weird, recall the tutorial being the first thing I saw. Anyway, click on the vehicle construction center or whatever it's called, the tutorial window should presumably be there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:22:11 am
I dont see any tutorial, did I manage to somehow download the wrong version or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 06:23:43 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:22:11 am
I dont see any tutorial, did I manage to somehow download the wrong version or something?
I don't know, maybe. I would bet that redownloading is worth a try though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 11, 2011, 06:24:55 am
I can't balance my rocket.  It goes VVVVVVVVVVVVVRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRCRASH instantly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:25:53 am
Version is fine.... but no tutorial.... can someone just tell me the controls?  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:27:17 am
...There is a tutorial.  Just click through it.  It's there.

And for the record, Q/E is roll, A/D is rudder, W/S is pitch, Shift/Control is throttle.  Now look again to make sure.

Quote from: andrea on July 11, 2011, 06:12:38 am
Aqizzar, just put a SAS on top of each solid booster. That will be enough to keep the rocket straight until you can throw away the boosters.

Tried that, and now it won't take off.  It doesn't sputter or anything, it just sits there.  If I press space again, the boosters explode, but the rest of the rocket is fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:28:47 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:27:17 am
...There is a tutorial.  Just click through it.  It's there.

And for the record, Q/E is roll, A/D is rudder, W/S is pitch, Shift/Control is throttle.  Now look again to make sure.

Quote from: andrea on July 11, 2011, 06:12:38 am
Aqizzar, just put a SAS on top of each solid booster. That will be enough to keep the rocket straight until you can throw away the boosters.

Tried that, and now it won't take off.  It doesn't sputter or anything, it just sits there.  If I press space again, the boosters explode, but the rest of the rocket is fine.

I didnt see tutorial. Still dont. Tried about 5 times. Probably due to being on linux.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 11, 2011, 06:29:48 am
Relevant comic. (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=010509)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 06:37:03 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:27:17 am
And for the record, Q/E is roll, A/D is rudder, W/S is pitch, Shift/Control is throttle.

Hold F to engage SAS to help stabilize the rocket.

Also:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on July 11, 2011, 06:41:28 am
He'll actually freak at any sufficiently large explosion close to the command capsule, but he'll happily enjoy the ride of his life while spiraling down to his doom with his brothers screaming wildly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:42:29 am
Jebidiah, I am disappoint.  You are anything but out of control.  You are in fact doing awesome, so look like it.

Spoiler: Physics (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 06:44:17 am
Quote from: KaelGotDwarves on July 11, 2011, 06:41:28 am
He'll actually freak at any sufficiently large explosion close to the command capsule, but he'll happily enjoy the ride of his life while spiraling down to his doom with his brothers screaming wildly.

Actually, they're all complete psychos. The first stage of my rocket went tits up, so I disengaged the second stage and pointed it straight down. Guess what, rocketing straight towards the ground makes all three of them grin like idiots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:46:49 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 06:44:17 am
Guess what, rocketing straight towards the ground makes all three of them grin like idiots.

That's because they know the end is near.

Still can't get these damn side-strapped boosters to work with SAS modules attached to them.  I've tried rearranging the stage sequence, and whichever stage either the modules or the boosters are geared too causes them to blow up immediately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 06:49:00 am
Played for a bit. This is amazing in a way that causes asphyxiation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on July 11, 2011, 06:51:32 am
They don't actually understand the concept of rocketing downward = bad - but they do understand explosions!

Also, I must say that the 2nd video in OP has excellent music choice, but for the hilarious factor I must submit Elton John's Rocketman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LX7WrHCaUA) or Queen's Don't Stop Me Now for instant awesome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSADxMocaHs).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 11, 2011, 07:18:39 am
I tried this and managed to reach 600k+ after a couple tries.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh and for some reason my graphics card overheats when i'm playing this, no matter what the settings, anyone else noticed this ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 07:26:39 am
Finally got my Tripodunker working.  I think the problem was simply that I made it before patching in the new parts.  So I just remade it from scratch, with SAS modules and doubled fuel tanks, and it works fine.

First Flight Apogee: 714760 meters "above" sea level.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/2prwubm.jpg)

I CAN SEE THE EARTH
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 07:29:20 am
I finally got to space.

"Oh, cool. I made it."
"..."
"..."
"Errrr.... How do I get back down now?"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fanofgaming on July 11, 2011, 07:30:05 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 07:26:39 am
I CAN SEE THE EARTH
Are we thinking of the same Earth? Because that's not my Earth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 07:31:43 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 07:29:20 am
I finally got to space.

"Oh, cool. I made it."
"..."
"..."
"Errrr.... How do I get back down now?"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm currently 5000000 meters away from the earth. I've got about .01g pulling me back to earth and just spent the last of my fuel shooting in what I think is the direction of the earth. Going to have to leave this on overnight and see if I can pull this off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 07:33:21 am
I don't think atmosphere is properly programmed yet, because having your parachute out always slows you down, even in space.  So remember to make your capsule and parachute the final stage, or it'll be a long long ride home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: jetex1911 on July 11, 2011, 07:55:37 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 06:44:17 am
Guess what, rocketing straight towards the ground makes all three of them grin like idiots.

Someone, please sigg this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 08:01:35 am
Hm, after some more testing I've come to the conclusion that while the big fuel tank and engine are too powerful, the small ones aren't powerful enough. I'm finding it very very difficult to build a rocket with them that can achieve something resembling an orbit, and utterly impossible without SRBs. But yeah, early version, more parts to come, etc. As a proof of concept, this is absolutely astonishing.

Quote from: Sirian on July 11, 2011, 07:18:39 am
Oh and for some reason my graphics card overheats when i'm playing this, no matter what the settings, anyone else noticed this ?

I do seem to have a significant increase in fan noise when running the game, now that you mention it. I've had it running for a couple hours and my computer hasn't imploded, though, so I'm guessing it  copes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 08:06:27 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 08:01:35 am
Quote from: Sirian on July 11, 2011, 07:18:39 am
Oh and for some reason my graphics card overheats when i'm playing this, no matter what the settings, anyone else noticed this ?

I do seem to have a significant increase in fan noise when running the game, now that you mention it. I've had it running for a couple hours and my computer hasn't imploded, though, so I'm guessing it  copes.

Ditto.  The game seems very poorly optimized.  I figured my computer was way more than this game could tax at first, and used best settings and like 1600xsomething graphics.  The graphics card practically went to the moon itself just looking at the title screen.  With 1280x800 and "Simple" graphics, it still makes as much noise as a game like Stalker: CoP.  I imagine the planet itself is most of the problem, but the hanger room is nearly as bad.  It's like the game is rendering everything at once as best as possible all the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 08:11:34 am
Keep in mind this thing is in very early alpha. The devs are nowhere near the point where they can actually consider this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 08:17:08 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 08:01:35 am
Hm, after some more testing I've come to the conclusion that while the big fuel tank and engine are too powerful, the small ones aren't powerful enough. I'm finding it very very difficult to build a rocket with them that can achieve something resembling an orbit, and utterly impossible without SRBs. But yeah, early version, more parts to come, etc. As a proof of concept, this is absolutely astonishing.

Tried having multiple stages of double fuel tank engines?
Also, conserving fuel is important. I'd definitely say it takes less fuel to thrust more higher up.
Personally I'm currently inadvertently in orbit so it's certainly possible. I'd bet 300km or higher would be necessary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 11, 2011, 08:17:47 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

we have lifd of
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 11, 2011, 08:18:29 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lost in spaaaaaceeee

Anyways, yea its not really optimized, but I really can't wait to see its future versions, it could be very very very epic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jopax on July 11, 2011, 08:19:57 am
Is there any way to keep several stacks together?
I used a three way splitter to have more power but as soon as i launch it kind of bends and i need to detach it as fast as i can before it rips the rocket apart, then i fire my second stage and the rocket starts to loose all sense of control, in under half a minute i manage to blow trough all of my stages (four or five i think) just hoping to survive, then the parachute opens and they land safely all the while there are parts raining all over the place XD

And i wish there was a 'several-vertical-parts-to-one-vertical-part' connectors, like the splitters but in reverse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: andrea on July 11, 2011, 08:22:51 am
at first I wondered why it crashed. Then I checked temperature... 73 C°!

it will take a while before it cools down...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 08:32:18 am
Spoiler: GENTLEMEN (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: head on July 11, 2011, 08:46:43 am
How to achive orbit easily


C = command moudal
F = fuel
S = liquid fuel engine
T = tri thingy
D  = Decopuler

C
SAS
F
F
S
D
SAS(not needed)
T
F|F|F
S|S|S


turn on maxium thurst
enjoy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 09:04:04 am
Hm, maybe the mistake I made was going straight to a three stage design, the result being that the rocket was too heavy and the first stage barely managed to get it 2 km in the air.

Also, this game could really use some sort of autopilot. I absolutely love building the rockets and seeing how they perform, but trying to actually keep them on course using the clunky keyboard controls is another matter entirely. I'd be more than happy to let Jebediah do the piloting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: head on July 11, 2011, 09:07:28 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 09:04:04 am
Hm, maybe the mistake I made was going straight to a three stage design, the result being that the rocket was too heavy and the first stage barely managed to get it 2 km in the air.

Also, this game could really use some sort of autopilot. I absolutely love building the rockets and seeing how they perform, but trying to actually keep them on course using the clunky keyboard controls is another matter entirely. I'd be more than happy to let Jebediah do the piloting.

SAS and T is your friend
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 09:09:00 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 09:04:04 am
Hm, maybe the mistake I made was going straight to a three stage design, the result being that the rocket was too heavy and the first stage barely managed to get it 2 km in the air.

Also, this game could really use some sort of autopilot. I absolutely love building the rockets and seeing how they perform, but trying to actually keep them on course using the clunky keyboard controls is another matter entirely. I'd be more than happy to let Jebediah do the piloting.
I've found that detonating couplers underneath too heavy rockets usually gets them in the air and then it's smooth sailing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 09:15:02 am
Quote from: head on July 11, 2011, 09:07:28 am
SAS and T is your friend

Holding down a button all the time hurts my finger.

Also: The ability to disconnect modules without them being immediately thrown away. I forgot to put a decoupler between my command module and the rest of my rocket. Being able to just slot it in without having to throw the whole damn thing away and then rebuild it from scratch sure would've been handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 09:22:26 am
Sordid, T keeps SASs on until they are [T]urned off, or not on the ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Boksi on July 11, 2011, 09:26:13 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 09:22:26 am
Sordid, T keeps SASs on until they are [T]urned off, or not on the ship.
I didn't know that! Where does it say that? I've been using F this whole time!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 10:06:11 am
Quote from: Boksi on July 11, 2011, 09:26:13 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 09:22:26 am
Sordid, T keeps SASs on until they are [T]urned off, or not on the ship.

I didn't know that! Where does it say that? I've been using F this whole time!

+1

That information was not in the tutorial. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 10:17:38 am
Quote from: Saint on July 10, 2011, 07:08:42 pm
S.A.S Module
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/S.A_.S_Module_.PNG)

Description: As long as this module is attached to the rocket and you hold the F key (or t to toggle), it'll apply force to attempt to keep the rocket straight. More of these will make the ship more stable but will add to the overall weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 11, 2011, 10:28:27 am
Simple way to get to space

P = Parachute
C = Command Pod
F = huge fuel tank
L = huge liquid fuel engine
9 = nine coupler
D = decoupler
S = Solid fuel booster


P
C
SAS
SAS
SAS
D
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
L
D
9
S
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: jetex1911 on July 11, 2011, 11:47:46 am
This pretty much sums up the game for the three astronauts: 10 minutes of Bill and Bob screaming bloody murder while Jeremiah is having the time of his life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 11, 2011, 12:22:53 pm
This is awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 11, 2011, 01:00:08 pm
Managed a pretty low orbit, around 40k but without a means to deorbit. Happy suffocating.

Very fun for now if you just want to fuck around, but when more parts and features are added I forsee some sort of MFD's (multi-function display) like in orbiter. Rendezvous, precision docking, lunar transfers, all would be next to impossible without them or some kind of automation.

Ah, the joys of space realism.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 11, 2011, 01:00:47 pm
At first, the launch of the D.I.E. Unity went well. It was a parachute-capsule-solid fuel setup.
Then the rocket ran out of fuel and I realized the parachute had malfunctioned.

The second attempt went better. I added a second stage with a liquid fuel tank and added some SASs to the capsule.
The parachute malfunctioned again. KERBLOOSH.

The third attempt was a three-stage with mega liquid fuel boosters hooked to a tri-coupler and SAS-ES EVERYWHERE.
The rocket stayed stable until the solid fuel engine kicked in. I forgot to add a decoupler to the second stage, which resulted in the solid engine backfiring and turning everything into paste. It was stable though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on July 11, 2011, 01:42:11 pm
I can't get the game to recognise my joystick. I can set the controls for the joystick in the launcher, but it won't do anything if I use it when flying a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Light forger on July 11, 2011, 01:49:40 pm
I seem to have trouble launching is there something I missed I have a parachute a command pod and some fuel tanks with a solid fuel rocket at the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 11, 2011, 01:57:52 pm
Fuel tanks aren't needed with solid rockets. Only liquid rockets need fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 11, 2011, 01:58:14 pm
Press spacebar to go to the next stage.

Solid fuel rockets contain their own fuel and don't benefit from liquid fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Light forger on July 11, 2011, 02:01:37 pm
The fact that I can't launch AT ALL is my main issue.
Edit: sigh no I hit the launch button and it does nothing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 11, 2011, 02:04:19 pm
Use less weight then.
Also, hold down shift until the yellow OVR THR light comes on.
It makes you go faster more quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tilla on July 11, 2011, 02:06:48 pm
The show was a bit of a controversy but this theme always comes to my mind when I'm playing with this for some reason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmB5SpgWIEA
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Svampapa on July 11, 2011, 02:20:57 pm
OT: I really liked Enterprise until they got messed up with all the temporal madness. Never really cared much for the other Star Trek series, so I guess that says something. :)

On topic, this is an awesomely awesome game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 02:35:41 pm
Quote from: Light forger on July 11, 2011, 02:01:37 pm
The fact that I can't launch AT ALL is my main issue.
Edit: sigh no I hit the launch button and it does nothing.
Those liquid fuel tanks way a ton. Take them off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: andrea on July 11, 2011, 02:39:02 pm
Finally managed to launch something into space...
but now how do I go back? 2100 Km and still climbing. I only wanted to orbit below 100 km!!!

I guess I should have saved some fuel to eventually come back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Pillow_Killer on July 11, 2011, 02:39:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: andrea on July 11, 2011, 02:43:16 pm
7300? wow, that is fast. even if I doubled the number of boosters in my rocket I wouldn't go that fast...
could you post the rocket on the launchpad?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 11, 2011, 03:38:41 pm
Quote from: andrea on July 11, 2011, 02:39:02 pm
Finally managed to launch something into space...
but now how do I go back? 2100 Km and still climbing. I only wanted to orbit below 100 km!!!

I guess I should have saved some fuel to eventually come back.

I'm not sure, but I don't think leaving the planet's gravity well is simulated in this yet, so you will, eventually come down. I'm not going to try to give you a time frame on that though, it could be hours, or days, depending upon how fast you're still going at that height.

As someone said before, a low orbit requires roughly 2200 m/s of horizontal velocity. So, once you're sure you'll be high enough to get out of the atmosphere (very hard to judge), start pitching nose towards the horizon to give yourself plenty of horizontal velocity. Don't burn all your fuel that way though. Once you get to about 2200, you should cut thrust. At this point, your velocity should be slowly decreasing. This is because you're still ascending slightly. Once your vertical speed reaches zero, your velocity should start increasing again. At this point, point your nose in the direction of movement, or slightly above it, and give yourself some more thrust. It doesn't take a whole lot, but this will ensure that your periapsis (the lowest point of your orbit) is clear of the atmosphere. It's very hard to judge this last burn, just based on the info given to you. However, I'd suggest leaving at LEAST 1/4 to 1/2 of a liquid fuel tank for deorbiting if you're planning on trying to get back.

I've managed this once, with a design that's slightly odd and unreliable. It required a layer of solid boosters on the bottom, which fired, but didn't lift the rocket from the pad. I'd seperate those, and then ignite the liquid rockets, which would cause the lower solid ones to explode, occasionally taking one of the liquid ones with them, but usually just giving the whole thing enough of a bump off the pad to lift off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Cheese on July 11, 2011, 04:01:56 pm
I love this game, but it keeps destroying every flicker of innovation I have with those damn solid fuel boosters. Liquid fuel is much more stable, but won't go on the radial decouplers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 11, 2011, 04:36:38 pm
Currently using Sunday Punch's parts pack.



I had a decent launch, thinking nothing can go wrong when the whole things suddenly started to tilt at around 500-700m.
"No problem I just let go of the bottom part..
..crap.. the thing starts spinning uncontrollably, I'll just let go of the next part..
..Problem solved, I have stabilized.. wait.. It starts going in the wrong direction!"

Then I let go of the final part to save the crew and let out the parachute, the crew seemed to be quite relieved..



..Then the last piece suddenly tore off the parachute from the capsule, cue immediate horror on their faces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Kanil on July 11, 2011, 04:42:39 pm
Been working on my favorite spaceship a bit, I'm quite pleased with it.

Wasn't sure what to call it, but I quickly had a name after the first launch. The Maniacal Laughter 5000.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It pretty much goes as you might expect, forward and up at about a 45 degree angle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 11, 2011, 04:53:06 pm
At some point i was trying to make fireworks/missile launchers with solid fuel rockets, it was kind of fun but a bit difficult. I still havent managed to land a "missile" on the hangar but i'll probably try again later :p

This kind of project is a bit harder than expected because you need to outsmart the way rocket stages are created and it can lead to some weird bugs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 04:55:44 pm
Quote from: Ultimuh on July 11, 2011, 04:36:38 pm


..Then the last piece suddenly tore off the parachute from the capsule, cue immediate horror on their faces.
I had this happen 10 minutes ago, and the capsule still landed safely. Glorious Kerbal Heroes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 05:05:26 pm
How do you get those things turned? I'd love to know how.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 11, 2011, 05:06:51 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 05:05:26 pm
How do you get those things turned? I'd love to know how.

You can place solid fuel directly on things as if they were wings.

Also, this might help some people. You can click and drag the command module to move the ship around. Useful if you are building a taller rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 05:07:37 pm
Wut. TO THE SHIP EDITOR!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 05:37:09 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 11, 2011, 01:00:08 pm
Managed a pretty low orbit, around 40k but without a means to deorbit. Happy suffocating.

So, orbiting actually works?  How did you make it happen?  Any time I try steering a rocket towards something other than "straight up" either the SAS's won't let me or it just goes out of control.

I've been wondering if those yellow and pink markers on the horizon ball actually mean anything, but steering towards those is inevitable disaster too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 11, 2011, 05:41:59 pm
Orbiting does work. Getting an orbit is hard, though. With the power in the engines it's very easy to overshoot the orbit and end up drifting off into space. On the other side of the equation, overdoing engine control means that the rocket won't quite make it into stable orbit. Hopefully they'll include an orbit visualizer later on so that it's easier to tell if the rocket will make a stable orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 05:43:13 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 05:37:09 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 11, 2011, 01:00:08 pm
Managed a pretty low orbit, around 40k but without a means to deorbit. Happy suffocating.

So, orbiting actually works?  How did you make it happen?  Any time I try steering a rocket towards something other than "straight up" either the SAS's won't let me or it just goes out of control.

I've been wondering if those yellow and pink markers on the horizon ball actually mean anything, but steering towards those is inevitable disaster too.
There are two of each of the yellow and pink things; one for forward, one for reverse. The yellow is the direction in which the rocket is heading, as is visible in that if it's in the orange you're going down, and in the blue you're going up. The pink is.. I don't know.
Getting them both to be horizontal is pretty likely to get you in orbit though.
Also, turn off your SAS if you're trying to steer the rocket manually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 11, 2011, 05:47:15 pm
I think the tutorial said purple was the direction to the launch base zone act 1 pad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 11, 2011, 05:51:59 pm
Orbiting is quite possible, and even easy once you get the hang of it. I can do it no sweat now (after many, very spectacular failures; the Kerbal system is doubtless littered with forgotten space pods that achieved escape velocity).

In fact, the numbers have been crunched on the size and gravity of Kerbal. You can find the results at https://gist.github.com/1073201 (https://gist.github.com/1073201)

Format is height, required orbital speed, and escape velocity from the planet's gravity well. Remember that the orbital speed has to be horizontal relative to the planet below you (escape velocity can be in any direction that doesn't intersect the planet's atmosphere).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: vagel7 on July 11, 2011, 06:31:20 pm
I actually made a rocket fold into itself. The crew survived though and after the explosion the command unit was sitting nicely in the middle of the pad.

Also, where do you get those big yellow tanks?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 11, 2011, 06:40:33 pm
The big yellows are from the extra parts pack.

My question is: is there a way to add stuff in the middle of the rocket without having to rebuild everything that comes after it? I have several precision-placed side-connected rockets that I don't want to have to rebuild painstakingly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Virex on July 11, 2011, 06:42:03 pm
You could remove the parachute and attach the underside of your rocket to the nosecone, although that may wreck havoc on any custom stage sequences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 06:42:51 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 11, 2011, 06:40:33 pm
My question is: is there a way to add stuff in the middle of the rocket without having to rebuild everything that comes after it? I have several precision-placed side-connected rockets that I don't want to have to rebuild painstakingly.

NO, which is like, the top of the suggestion list for me, right under making side-parts less precision intensive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 11, 2011, 06:43:20 pm
I'm taking a guess here, but I suppose you could build those side connectors out then place solid fuel thanks on them, connect the parts you want to the fuel tank, remove wha toyu don't want, then put the pieces back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 11, 2011, 06:44:43 pm
Reaching space isen't that hard. Reaching space with a workable spaceship that could possibly surive a landing anywhere however...

Obligatory space-di*k?*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 07:03:11 pm
I pulled a successful orbit all the way around, but misjudged the retrograde burn and ended up landing just barely within vision range of the pad.
Oh well, close enough in my book.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 07:09:51 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 11, 2011, 07:03:11 pm
I pulled a successful orbit all the way around, but misjudged the retrograde burn and ended up landing just barely within vision range of the pad.
Oh well, close enough in my book.

Congrats Jaygagarin  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 11, 2011, 07:12:16 pm
Engine 1-17 just exploded, there face says it all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 11, 2011, 07:21:15 pm
Wow, I think I managed a small Macross Missile Massacre with radials and solid boosters.

Next step, a full Macross Missile Massacre.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 11, 2011, 07:40:56 pm
You'll know you've achieved orbit when you reach periapsis, that is the low point in the orbit when your height reverses from decreasing to increasing.

The highest vertical speed i've been able to get is around 3333mps. The rocket was so ridiculous, but i'm starting to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 07:50:38 pm
I got this game working, by updating wine. Time to test my first rocket!

Made a suborbital flight, apogee was about 120k feet. Not bad for my first rocket! going to add on a final stage and have a 3 stage so I can get a proper orbital insertion burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 11, 2011, 07:52:40 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 11, 2011, 07:40:56 pm
You'll know you've achieved orbit when you reach periapsis, that is the low point in the orbit when your height reverses from decreasing to increasing.

The highest vertical speed i've been able to get is around 3333mps. The rocket was so ridiculous, but i'm starting to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Mine peaks at 4,650 m/s if fired straight up, but I've been following this game since the 7th and learned lots of tips and tricks over time.

My big tip; liquid engines are awesome for their duration, but the low thrust to weight makes them hard to get off the ground. My current best design uses three liquid engines in the primary lift stage, each with 3 fuel tanks; the key is 6 solid boosters attached by radial decouplers so that the liquid engines can still fire. It takes some customization of the stage setup, but the ship lifts off with all 6 SRBs and the 3 liquid engines firing; once the SRBs die they're detached in the next stage to save weight, but the liquid engines continue to fire (the ship actually starts slowing down at this point; but even if speed is going down, altitude keeps going up, and since fuel tanks lose weight as their fuel is drained it eventually starts accelerating again. And with 3 fuel tanks the lift stage lasts several minutes).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
Personally I stick by my coupler based launch method. My current design is
Code: [Select]
Comm
Coupler
Fuel
Fuel
Fuel
Engine
Coupler
Tricoupler
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Engine-Engine-Engine
Coupler-Coupler-Coupler
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 11, 2011, 08:02:38 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
Personally I stick by my coupler based launch method. My current design is
Code: [Select]
Comm
Coupler
Fuel
Fuel
Fuel
Engine
Coupler
Tricoupler
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Engine-Engine-Engine
Coupler-Coupler-Coupler

Why couplers on the bottom? Otherwise, yours is very similar to mine, though I have a SAS on top of the tricoupler plus the previously mentioned side mounted SRBs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 11, 2011, 08:04:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY9P2iY6pTo

8.1 is going to be awesome!

Edit: Checking the forums ETA of the patch is the 18th.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 08:08:07 pm
I am disappointed that I can't attach liquid fuel rockets to a side decoupler. I was planning on making a semi-realistic shuttle stack.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 08:14:36 pm
This game is brilliant. Does anyone know if they have ideas to model in RCS fuel tanks? or will they always be 'unlimited' as now. It's not a big issue, but it's one thing I noticed.

Just on my second mission now, a  three stage rocket with a 3x2 fuel + 3x engine first stage, a 3x1 fuel 3x engine second stage and a single engine final stage. It may shoot out of orbit at this rate, my OIB was extremely late so didnt really work.

*At this rate re-entry will be at a couple thousand metres a second. I hope it isnt modeled correctly  :P

**Ok it just escaped earths gravity. My nauts will die a cold and lonely death.

I'm going to try using 2 SRB's on the next and disregard the first stage, its unwieldy and unstable.


Lol my one with 2 SRB's fell over on the pad and exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 08:21:23 pm
A, the planet is Kerbal, not Earth. It's smaller. B, you can't escape the gravity. There will always be some tiny amount of gravity on the ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 08:23:14 pm
I managed to cobble together a passable-looking shuttle stack with a large solid booster surrounded by three small ones and a liquid fuel 'shuttle' and an arseton of SASes. Straight off the launch pad, the whole thing does a quadruple backflip right into the ground. When the smoke cleared, the command module was sitting upright on the ground, with all three kerbalnauts screaming their heads off, but alive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 08:23:44 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 08:21:23 pm
A, the planet is Kerbal, not Earth. It's smaller. B, you can't escape the gravity. There will always be some tiny amount of gravity on the ship.

A) dont care. B) you can escape the gravity, its when you make a trans lunar injection or otherwise escape the planets orbit. It doesn't mean the gravity has no effect whatsoever on it. Sorry I should have explained this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 11, 2011, 08:26:21 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 11, 2011, 08:02:38 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
Personally I stick by my coupler based launch method. My current design is
Code: [Select]
Comm
Coupler
Fuel
Fuel
Fuel
Engine
Coupler
Tricoupler
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Engine-Engine-Engine
Coupler-Coupler-Coupler

Why couplers on the bottom? Otherwise, yours is very similar to mine, though I have a SAS on top of the tricoupler plus the previously mentioned side mounted SRBs.

I just used this same exact rocket to get into a stable orbit with nearly a full fuel tank left to play around with/deorbit.

The reasoning for the bottom couplers is because of a weird thing that won't let the liquid rockets take off straight from the pad. I discovered this by accident by having a few exploding solid rockets bump my ship up off the pad, letting it take orbit in that form. Once I took the solid rockets off, it wouldn't lift off, but putting anything under there that will detatch will let it lift off easily. Although if they explode, sometimes 1/3 of the rocket goes with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 08:30:38 pm
I noticed this SRB thing, but then I put 3 on the bottom this time and it worked fine. Unsure why this is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 11, 2011, 08:39:41 pm
SASes save lives. Mainly by stopping the rocket flipping 180 and headbutting the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 11, 2011, 08:54:29 pm
I wish they had more powerful SAS systems. When I strap 12 SRB rockets to my rocket, I kind of want them to be at least somewhat stable without needing 3 SAS's for each rocket engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 09:04:15 pm
I think at a certain point, they just stop helping.  They also seem to work better the farther away they are from the axis.

Now, how the Hell do you guys manage to steer a rocket into an orbit trajectory?  Because it's all my brain can manage just to keep the thing stable and headed towards a specific point on the compass, let alone with any real idea whether that's a good heading and keeping an eye on my speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 11, 2011, 09:13:29 pm
Spoiler: Fly my pretty, Fly! (click to show/hide)

She's still an early design but flies surprisingly well, I need to change around the boosters though so that I can fit a third fuel tank for the main engine. (If the main weight is put on the main engine it will break off on the launch pad which is actually pretty hilarious because it still flies but sort of hovers there for awhile)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 11, 2011, 09:13:40 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 09:04:15 pm
I think at a certain point, they just stop helping.  They also seem to work better the farther away they are from the axis.

Now, how the Hell do you guys manage to steer a rocket into an orbit trajectory?  Because it's all my brain can manage just to keep the thing stable and headed towards a specific point on the compass, let alone with any real idea whether that's a good heading and keeping an eye on my speed.

straight up to about 40,000 meters. If you're above about 600 m/s, go ahead and angle down about 45 degrees in the direction you want to orbit. If less, keep it about 60 degrees up, if more, maybe about 30. As you do this your vertical speed should start to fall, if it doesn't angle down more. Try to get your direction pointer to point towards the horizon as you accelerate into an orbit. Once you hit about 2200 m/s, as long as you make it above 100 km, you'll be fine. Try to save some fuel for your Apoapsis, (point at which your vertical speed reaches zero.) Once you make it there, give yourself another burst of thrust in the direction you're travelling, this will raise the other side of your orbit above the atmosphere. It doesn't take much, just a few seconds of low thrust. maybe 10s at 1/3 throttle should be plenty.

If you make it that far without running out of fuel or spinning out of control or exploding, congratulations, you're in an orbit. Not a very pretty one, but it's better than a fiery death any day. Now just hope you kept enough fuel to deorbit. (again, doesn't take much.)


Edit: Also, don't keep it full thrust at the early portions of the launch. Low in the atmosphere, you'll hit a wall that atmospheric drag won't let you accelerate above. Get to this point, and then lower your throttle to keep yourself a bit below it, otherwise you waste fuel. (This is why I feel Solid rockets are a bit of a waste early on and too heavy to just lug along for later use.) You'll also get lighter, and higher and start to accelerate more as you rise. Keep lowering your throttle. You shouldn't be above 150 m/s below 10,000. shouldn't be above 200 m/s below 30,000. Once you get above that though, feel free to open up the throttle, just keep an eye on the fuel and heat levels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 11, 2011, 09:22:06 pm
I always use the SRBs as free lift. They don't weigh as much as liquid rockets and produce a lot more thrust. I use them to get off the launchpad and a few kilometers in the air before I switch to the liquid, which excels in high-atmo and space flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 11, 2011, 09:25:16 pm
I really wish it wouldn't overheat my video card. Even if it doesn't kill it, it's sure as hell heating up my room. :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 09:25:49 pm
(http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp302/chazsamuel/space-chimp-ham-monkey-astronaut-gr.jpg)

Yeah, I'll have to write that down.  Hopefully, there will be some YouTube videos at some point, because I am definitely not a qualified astronaut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 09:39:40 pm
Spoiler: Large image sequence (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 09:43:09 pm
I love how, even touching down on the water within sight of the pad, Bill and Jeb are just o_o and Bob is all D8 .  It'll be fun using different astronauts for different gauges once the game gets fuller.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 11, 2011, 09:43:40 pm
Nice pictures Jay, I especially like the second one (None of my flights have been more then 20 minutes.). I've finally got two craft that get into space and orbit pretty well, one is a fair bit faster at low altitudes, but kinda rickity, second looks like a bit like a Soyuz, much smoother ride. Trying to get a stable orbit following Sluissa's instructions, we'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 11, 2011, 09:54:06 pm
Quote from: Akura on July 11, 2011, 07:21:15 pm
Wow, I think I managed a small Macross Missile Massacre with radials and solid boosters.

Next step, a full Macross Missile Massacre.
Pics?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Skeeblix on July 11, 2011, 09:56:33 pm
Would it be too offtopic for me to ask why all you guys know orbital physics so well?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NewsMuffin on July 11, 2011, 10:05:10 pm
Quote from: Skeeblix on July 11, 2011, 09:56:33 pm
Would it be too offtopic for me to ask why all you guys know orbital physics so well?
You know too much.
If you would kindly follow me into this suspiciously warm room and await further instructions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 11, 2011, 10:07:11 pm
Quote from: Skeeblix on July 11, 2011, 09:56:33 pm
Would it be too offtopic for me to ask why all you guys know orbital physics so well?

Because physics of any kind dominate, and when you add space to the pile, it just get's even better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 11, 2011, 10:19:20 pm
Quote from: Skeeblix on July 11, 2011, 09:56:33 pm
Would it be too offtopic for me to ask why all you guys know orbital physics so well?

Most of us /don't/. It's just stuff like orbits are kinda simple, once you figure out what height you need to be at and how fast you need to be traveling in what is essentially down. Other then that, I don't think much physics has come up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 11, 2011, 10:38:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 10:40:43 pm
Now that I have a certifiably space-ready craft, it's time for lulz.
First off, something I'm calling the Roundabout.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Next up, the Ball Of Fury
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And next up, the quadroblast.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(Thanks to the Goons (http://mod.gib.me/kerbal/mods/) for the other extra parts)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ECrownofFire on July 11, 2011, 10:41:53 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 11, 2011, 10:38:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I... What?

How did you manage that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Detonate on July 11, 2011, 10:42:54 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 11, 2011, 10:38:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is that just the capsule attached to some liquid fuel with a booster on it? If so, then I can see why they're scared.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 11, 2011, 10:43:04 pm
I was just about to ask where you go that yellow ball part.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 10:44:40 pm
Lol hilarious rockets. I'm about to make my GOTOMARS rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 11, 2011, 10:44:47 pm
Quote from: CrownofFire on July 11, 2011, 10:41:53 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 11, 2011, 10:38:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I... What?

How did you manage that?

Far too little thrust for far too big a rocket + space bar spam = *poink* PERFECT LANDING WITHOUT PARACHUTE

The previous try got me 50 some G's and that wasn't what killed the crew.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 11, 2011, 11:01:43 pm
I find it hilarious that, when my rocket fails miserably, my crew, who I manage to save, are all grinning like that was the most awesome thing ever. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 11:07:33 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 11, 2011, 10:40:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How did you manage to just tack those boosters onto the sides without breakaways?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 11:29:04 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 11:07:33 pm
How did you manage to just tack those boosters onto the sides without breakaways?
I have no idea how to answer that, because I have no idea how you're not.
I just put them there?
SRBs are surface-mount enabled.

Meanwhile, LULZROCKETS set 2:
Roundabout V2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Asymmetry Didn't Kill My Boys
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Longrocket is Loooong
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Hornet
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Fuel Can
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 11, 2011, 11:36:16 pm
So, how do I have a "successful" mission (or is there one)? I've had a command module land on the ground unharmed, but it still keep going till I quit and it says "mission aborted manually".

Also, can I unlock some of those parts you're using or do I have to download them from SA or wherever?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2011, 11:38:10 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 11, 2011, 11:36:16 pm
So, how do I have a "successful" mission (or is there one)? I've had a command module land on the ground unharmed, but it still keep going till I quit and it says "mission aborted manually".

Also, can I unlock some of those parts you're using or do I have to download them from SA or wherever?
-There are no win conditions (yet?).  It's a sandbox game.

-All parts are unlocked from the start.  If you don't have something, it's third party.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 11:40:43 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 11, 2011, 11:29:04 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 11, 2011, 11:07:33 pm
How did you manage to just tack those boosters onto the sides without breakaways?
I have no idea how to answer that, because I have no idea how you're not.
I just put them there?
SRBs are surface-mount enabled.

Ah, okay, I see now. Not sure how useful thit would be...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 11, 2011, 11:46:36 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 11, 2011, 10:40:43 pm

Next up, the Ball Of Fury
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


So.. where did you get that part?
Cannot seem to find it on that forum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Carcanken on July 11, 2011, 11:47:20 pm
Its a pretty fun game, just feels every single time i get everything on the rocket equal and even, it still always flies and flips over and over when i fly it. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 11:48:28 pm
I'm not even sure why the Hornet blew up. :O

The ball came from the SA goon link Jay posted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 11, 2011, 11:49:06 pm
I was about to ask where the spaceorange came from.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NewsMuffin on July 12, 2011, 12:00:24 am
Hmm, maybe the reason Bob is always scared is that the three Kermans are at different stations.
Bob would be the Ship Integrity Officer.
Bill would be the Kerman Survival Officer.
Jeb would be the Pilot/Navigator, which is why he's always smiling, except when they're exploding.

I made little acronyms for their titles, but they were childish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 12, 2011, 12:06:27 am
Quote from: sluissa on July 11, 2011, 08:26:21 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 11, 2011, 08:02:38 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 11, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
Personally I stick by my coupler based launch method. My current design is
Code: [Select]
Comm
Coupler
Fuel
Fuel
Fuel
Engine
Coupler
Tricoupler
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Fuel-Fuel-Fuel
Engine-Engine-Engine
Coupler-Coupler-Coupler

Why couplers on the bottom? Otherwise, yours is very similar to mine, though I have a SAS on top of the tricoupler plus the previously mentioned side mounted SRBs.

I just used this same exact rocket to get into a stable orbit with nearly a full fuel tank left to play around with/deorbit.

The reasoning for the bottom couplers is because of a weird thing that won't let the liquid rockets take off straight from the pad. I discovered this by accident by having a few exploding solid rockets bump my ship up off the pad, letting it take orbit in that form. Once I took the solid rockets off, it wouldn't lift off, but putting anything under there that will detatch will let it lift off easily. Although if they explode, sometimes 1/3 of the rocket goes with it.
Personally I reason it as that the couplers detonating provide the tiny bit of thrust necessary to get the rocket off the ground.
Quote from: Carcanken on July 11, 2011, 11:47:20 pm
Its a pretty fun game, just feels every single time i get everything on the rocket equal and even, it still always flies and flips over and over when i fly it. :(
Happens to me too, but it's all about realigning the rocket so that you don't crash into the ground. Also hopefully you're a distance away from the kearth before you spin out of control. I never use SAS personally, waste of weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 12, 2011, 12:20:34 am
The nuclear rocket is a lot of fun. 4,000 km and 3,000 m/s, but decreasing. If only I had added one more stage. The planet disappeared ages ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 12, 2011, 12:51:19 am
Challenge:

Achieve orbit with the simplest ship possible. Default parts only. Simplicity is defined by the sum of liquid fuel tanks+solid boosters.
I managed to do it with 5 liquid fuel tanks +3SRB's.

Simplicity number=8 . Beat that! (easily I bet)

I will soon edit this post with screenshots
Screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Detonate on July 12, 2011, 12:58:24 am
I just built a pretty simple rocket, and about 5,000 meters up I lost control due to forgetting to balance it out. Naturally it spun out of control and I separated. Due to the nature of the capsule area design, I also separated with some SAS attached. For some reason (probably due to speed) the parachute didn't fully deploy until very close to Kerbal. When I landed, one of the SAS pieces (there were 3 attached) exploded, apparently slowing down the rest enough to safely land. What the fuck, KSP?

EDIT: At the time of contact with Kerbal I was probably going around 55-60 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 12, 2011, 01:09:17 am
Quote from: Xinvoker on July 12, 2011, 12:51:19 am
Challenge:

Achieve orbit with the simplest ship possible. Default parts only. Simplicity is defined by the sum of liquid fuel tanks+solid boosters.
I managed to do it with 5 liquid fuel tanks +3SRB's.

Simplicity number=8 . Beat that! (easily I bet)

I will soon edit this post with screenshots
Screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

6. 4 fuel tanks, 2 SRBs. 91,000 m up, 2,350 m/s, and I ended up with a half a tank left for deorbiting (for once the pilots wont have to die in space).

On the other hand, I did leave out the parachute to save weight. And I doubt half a tank is enough for a powered landing, so maybe they're safer up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 02:26:25 am
I'll take that challenge, I'll get a screen of my fave rocket :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 02:26:50 am
Needs some suitably epic music for the blastoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLxCOIAkbyQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 02:50:43 am
Love this one.
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/deadmeat1471/Screenshot-2.png)

Its made out of:
4 x SRB's
3 x Liquid rocket fuel

7 :D

Achieves orbit, you have about half a tank, maybe 1/4 of a tank to deorbit.

The SRB's are in groups of two, they first burn fast and overload the bottom one. Then the one remaining burns for a while before decoupling and firing the next set of 2.

These get the vehicle up to about 2500 metres, after that the main engine does the rest. It uses approx 2 1/2 tanks of fuel getting into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 04:36:40 am
(http://i55.tinypic.com/ejsbo6.jpg)

Traveling a hundred kilometers above the world in a giant orange.  I like the extra large fuel tanks, they let you make tons of course corrections, which is good because this is a sloppy orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 04:48:08 am
So apparently the limit of draw distance is 1500K. Kerbal has now disappeared from my universe. Still coasting at 5000 m/s towards the sun. Unsurprisingly, Jeb is happy about this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 12, 2011, 04:51:47 am
Poor astronauts. I finally managed to achieve "orbit" in the sense that they're in space and I doubt they're ever coming back down. They're 500km above the dark side of the planet and rising. Might've been a wee bit excessive on the boosting.

At least Jebediah is having the time of his life.

They might come down eventually but I'm not sure whether I want to wait that long. The speed is 1.6 km/s and very, very slowly dropping.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on July 12, 2011, 05:00:57 am
I'd say that more than half the fun of this game not occupied by building giant deathtrap rockets and watching ginormous explosions is simply watching the faces of the Kerman brothers as they become the first Kerbals in SPAAAAAAAAAACE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: andrea on July 12, 2011, 05:14:15 am
Orbit! I am orbiting!  And I even have some fuel left.

not enough to get back to earth, sure, but it is fuel.
these brave kerbals died in the lonely cold of space for us all. Lets praise them.
( and launch a rescue rocket maybe)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 12, 2011, 05:19:47 am
Don't forget the fun of building just barely functioning rockets that are practically ready to shake apart every second of liftoff yet somehow stay together and upright. Makes you want to scream along with Bob and Bill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on July 12, 2011, 06:07:15 am
Woot! The next version will have symmetry and putting parts betwee other parts! And fuel flows through couplers now1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:08:36 am
Fantastic.

In other news, contrary to what was said earlier in the thread it appears it is indeed possible to escape the gravity well. My speed has stopped decreasing some time ago and currently I'm 25 000 K away from Kerbal. Bob and Bill are shitting their spacepants, Jeb doesn't seem to be bothered at all. Also contrary to what was said earlier, opening the chute does nothing in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 12, 2011, 06:18:44 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 04:48:08 am
So apparently the limit of draw distance is 1500K. Kerbal has now disappeared from my universe. Still coasting at 5000 m/s towards the sun. Unsurprisingly, Jeb is happy about this.

Ship design?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: vagel7 on July 12, 2011, 06:19:31 am
I am 4000K away and I still loose speed, very little though. EVerybody is happy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 12, 2011, 06:23:49 am
Wait, is it possible to switch liquid engines on and off?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 12, 2011, 06:27:33 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 12, 2011, 06:23:49 am
Wait, is it possible to switch liquid engines on and off?
Shift and control, but I doubt that's what you're asking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 06:27:53 am
Shift and Control are the liquid engine throttle.  If you throttle all the way back, the liquids shut off completely, and can be restarted later (with the throttle, not Spacebar).  I managed to float most of the way around the planet by constantly rotating up and down and throttling on and off to maintain altitude.  Bear in mind that the higher you get, the less resistance there is, so for orbital station-keeping and course corrections, a little dab'll do ya on the throttle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 12, 2011, 06:30:21 am
Cool, didn't know that before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:40:18 am
Quote from: RF on July 12, 2011, 06:18:44 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 04:48:08 am
So apparently the limit of draw distance is 1500K. Kerbal has now disappeared from my universe. Still coasting at 5000 m/s towards the sun. Unsurprisingly, Jeb is happy about this.

Ship design?

Oh dear... um... not really sure, now that most of it's burned up in the atmosphere. My space program has issues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoPlansNoPrototypeNoBackup). I'll try to recreate it from memory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 12, 2011, 06:46:47 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:40:18 am
Quote from: RF on July 12, 2011, 06:18:44 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 04:48:08 am
So apparently the limit of draw distance is 1500K. Kerbal has now disappeared from my universe. Still coasting at 5000 m/s towards the sun. Unsurprisingly, Jeb is happy about this.
Ship design?
Oh dear... um... not really sure, now that most of it's burned up in the atmosphere. My space program has issues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoPlansNoPrototypeNoBackup). I'll try to recreate it from memory.

Save and post it, if you would. I wanna see if it's possible to hit the sun by flying far enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:59:18 am
I made it all the way to 40000 K before I got bored and terminated the crew flight and I didn't seem to be getting closer at all.

Anyway, ship: http://www.mediafire.com/?o9a47b5i98p415p
Requires the additional parts linked to in the OP (namely the 2+1 Stack Couplers).

Engage SAS, throttle to 100%, and let 'er rip! The final stage will require some minor course corrections as it doesn't have a dedicated SAS module and the one in the Command Module is not powerful enough to keep it going straight; you should be going over 5300 m/s by the time the last of the fuel runs out. Detach the CM and coast.

Edit: Updated the ship a bit to hopefully reduce the wobble and stop it knocking its nozzles off. If it disintegrates, just try again. She'll hold together eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 07:10:00 am
For more laughs, I recommend checking out the Kerbal SP thread over on Something Awful (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3423512).  Not least because it's where most of the extra mod parts came from.  And crazy shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSNJJuvkpG8&hd=1) like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4spKNbcMVk&fmt=22)

Spoiler: Pics (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 12, 2011, 07:14:47 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:59:18 am
I made it all the way to 40000 K before I got bored and terminated the crew flight and I didn't seem to be getting closer at all.

Anyway, ship: http://www.mediafire.com/?o9a47b5i98p415p
Requires the additional parts linked to in the OP (namely the 2+1 Stack Couplers).

Engage SAS, throttle to 100%, and let 'er rip! The final stage will require some minor course corrections as it doesn't have a dedicated SAS module and the one in the Command Module is not powerful enough to keep it going straight; you should be going over 5300 m/s by the time the last of the fuel runs out. Detach the CM and coast.

Edit: Updated the ship a bit to hopefully reduce the wobble and stop it knocking its nozzles off. If it disintegrates, just try again. She'll hold together eventually.

Awesome! Thanks. Let's see how long I can run it for. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 07:33:45 am
If anyone is still having trouble making the tutorial come up, open settings.cfg, right at the top there are two boolean options for the tutorials.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:51:53 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 11, 2011, 08:06:27 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 11, 2011, 08:01:35 am
Quote from: Sirian on July 11, 2011, 07:18:39 am
Oh and for some reason my graphics card overheats when i'm playing this, no matter what the settings, anyone else noticed this ?

I do seem to have a significant increase in fan noise when running the game, now that you mention it. I've had it running for a couple hours and my computer hasn't imploded, though, so I'm guessing it  copes.

Ditto.  The game seems very poorly optimized.  I figured my computer was way more than this game could tax at first, and used best settings and like 1600xsomething graphics.  The graphics card practically went to the moon itself just looking at the title screen.  With 1280x800 and "Simple" graphics, it still makes as much noise as a game like Stalker: CoP.  I imagine the planet itself is most of the problem, but the hanger room is nearly as bad.  It's like the game is rendering everything at once as best as possible all the time.

Do you have fps problems? I couldn't figure out why it is that my computer has such trouble with it, because it runs absolutely smoothly for me. Then it occurred to me that maybe it's simply because the game has no fps cap. It's probably running at several hundred fps for me, which my monitor with its 60 Hz refresh rate can't display anyway, taxing the graphics card to 100% and then throwing most of the rendered frames away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on July 12, 2011, 08:09:31 am
Yeah, I finally managed to put a ship in orbit. However, I have very little fuel left, and I don't think it'll be enough to de-orbit. I'll try again with twive as many SRBs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 08:17:08 am
Made it to almost 150km. I noticed something very interesting, if you let yourself free-fall long enough, you start to slow down. I almost beat the main LFR/Tank assembly to the ground(which itself was falling slowly). Of course, I also forgot the parachute. The log didn't mention the SRBs hitting the ground, either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 08:31:01 am
Quote from: Akura on July 12, 2011, 08:17:08 am
I noticed something very interesting, if you let yourself free-fall long enough, you start to slow down.

Of course you do, you're re-entering the atmosphere. Kerbal seems to have a very dense one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: The Scout on July 12, 2011, 08:38:14 am
I attached 4 of the big solid fuel boosters to my rocket. At launch, they fell off. Right when I reach space, they come flying up and hit me, destroying the entire ship. :| I just made the ship carry it's own missiles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Simmura McCrea on July 12, 2011, 08:56:03 am
Is it just me or do the big solid fuel boosters want to be ICBMs? Every time I use them, they just hurtle towards the horizon, and I can't control them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 12, 2011, 09:00:51 am
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:08:36 am
Also contrary to what was said earlier, opening the chute does nothing in space.

They only seem to have an effect below the 35 km mark. Anywhere above that and it's totally useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 09:23:27 am
Apparently, I can't video capture this game with Taksi. Darn. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 09:41:11 am
The difference between Orbiter and this is basically the difference between making to-scale miniatures for architectural design and playing with LEGOs. Only the LEGOs have rocket fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 11:16:45 am
Quote from: Akura on July 12, 2011, 09:41:11 am
The difference between Orbiter and this is basically the difference between making to-scale miniatures for architectural design and playing with LEGOs. Only the LEGOs have rocket fuel.

Hah, well said! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 12, 2011, 11:17:27 am
Quote from: Taz on July 12, 2011, 11:10:07 am
Quote from: Akura on July 12, 2011, 09:41:11 am
The difference between Orbiter and this is basically the difference between making to-scale miniatures for architectural design and playing with LEGOs. Only the LEGOs have rocket fuel.

...

Downloading ASAP.

Also, this game is more Dwarfy. Failure is FUN. (IF it is significant enough. I've laughed when my Kerbals got slingshot into space while trying to orbit, etc.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tilla on July 12, 2011, 11:51:00 am
This is basically what should have been Spore's space stage, further justified by the fact that the dev seems to have a bunch of Spore creature videos on his Youtube account that hosts the next patch preview
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on July 12, 2011, 11:57:11 am
The rocket builder reminds me of Spore. Now that you mention it... Yeah. It's the Spore spaceship creator done well!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 12, 2011, 12:09:45 pm
Sordid: My max speed seems to be 2000m/s, I can't seem to do better than that. Currently cruising at 1100km at 1km/s. I'll have to try it on my own PC later. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 12:16:26 pm
I imagine shooting the three stupids to a distant star will become a hell of a lot easier (and faster) come the 0.8.1 update, when symmetrical parts become much easier to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 12:27:52 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:51:53 am
Do you have fps problems? I couldn't figure out why it is that my computer has such trouble with it, because it runs absolutely smoothly for me. Then it occurred to me that maybe it's simply because the game has no fps cap. It's probably running at several hundred fps for me, which my monitor with its 60 Hz refresh rate can't display anyway, taxing the graphics card to 100% and then throwing most of the rendered frames away.
Quote from: Fake (Real content, though!) Changelog
New features in 0.8.1
...
-Framerate limiter, configurable in settings.cfg

Also, on stability:
Quote from: HarvesteR
My plan is to create a new type of part, called Strut Connector.

This part is different from the others so far, because it is a compound part. That is, once you place it (it will attach to the surface), you immediately get a second part to attach. That is Connector B.

So, once connectors A and B are in place, a truss will be created between them, allowing you to essentially strap any loose parts of your rocket.

This part also will detect any controlled separations, and jettison the truss when that happens. If the stage breaks off in an uncontrolled manner, they won't separate.

This could be in as soon as the update after this one.
[...on covering up engines on upper stages...]
Also, Fairings are planned as an official feature as well. They're a special set of parts, with a new set of attachment options, that will enable pacing them onto exposed parts like liquid engines. They can even be activated to break apart when it's time to expose whatever's inside it.

EDIT: Crossposting nifty numbers.
r_planet=600 000 m
m_planet=5.29e22 kg
g_planet=9.807 m/s^2 at surface.
Atmospheric effects negligible above 40 000 m
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 12:36:00 pm
That strut connector is definately what this needs. A stack of 3 fuel tanks and engine on a tri-coupler jiggles around like crazy, compounded by anything you add to the 3 stacks with decouplers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 12:38:25 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 12:27:52 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:51:53 am
Do you have fps problems? I couldn't figure out why it is that my computer has such trouble with it, because it runs absolutely smoothly for me. Then it occurred to me that maybe it's simply because the game has no fps cap. It's probably running at several hundred fps for me, which my monitor with its 60 Hz refresh rate can't display anyway, taxing the graphics card to 100% and then throwing most of the rendered frames away.
Quote from: Fake (Real content, though!) Changelog
New features in 0.8.1
...
-Framerate limiter, configurable in settings.cfg

Eh? Where are you getting that info from?

Quote from: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 12:36:00 pm
That strut connector is definately what this needs. A stack of 3 fuel tanks and engine on a tri-coupler jiggles around like crazy, compounded by anything you add to the 3 stacks with decouplers.

Sounds pretty complicated. A simpler part could be like a tri-coupler, but with 3 hardpoints on both sides. That'd anchor down the loose stacks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 12:41:39 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 12:38:25 pm
Eh? Where are you getting that info from?
Quote from: HarvesteR
Link (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=126.msg531#msg531)
There is now a framerate cap in version 0.8.1

I'll add something to configure it through the settings.cfg as well.

Cheers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 12:45:48 pm
Quote
link (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=74.0)
* It's now possible to set aside a part of group of parts. This enables adding parts in between others without deleting half the ship.
Woo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 12, 2011, 12:49:59 pm
What're the radial couplers for? I can't seem to attach things to them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 12:54:27 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 12:41:39 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 12:38:25 pm
Eh? Where are you getting that info from?
Quote from: HarvesteR
Link (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=126.msg531#msg531)
There is now a framerate cap in version 0.8.1

I'll add something to configure it through the settings.cfg as well.

Cheers

Ah, so the forums are back up. Nice to know.

Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 12:27:52 pm
Crossposting nifty numbers.
r_planet=600 000 m
m_planet=5.29e22 kg
g_planet=9.807 m/s^2 at surface.
Atmospheric effects negligible above 40 000 m

With those numbers, orbital velocity at 100 km altitude is 2245 m/s. At least now I know what to aim for. Trying to get into orbit just by eyeballing it is pretty damn hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Pnx on July 12, 2011, 12:56:20 pm
I wish it were easier to do symmetrical designs. Maybe if you could orient the height of your positioning based on another part. It would also be nice if parts would position themselves centrally instead of having that little bit of side to side wiggle room.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 01:00:17 pm
Well, we only have six days of waiting for that left if the estimate isn't changed. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 01:03:34 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 12, 2011, 12:49:59 pm
What're the radial couplers for? I can't seem to attach things to them.
You can attach stuff to them. Basically, they allow you to attach things to the side of other things(generally, fuel tanks and SRB). They function similarly to the stage decouplers; when triggered, they pop off whatever is attached to them. You don't need them to attach stuff, but without them, you can (more) easily throw off the balance, and stuff just attached to the other stuff doesn't arm in seperate stages by default.

I've found they're more reliable at detatching than the stage decouplers. Almost too reliable, they often come off even when I don't tell them too ;).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 12, 2011, 01:06:39 pm
I would love if there was payloads like sattelites, space station modules and the like, and some kind of device mount thing for mounting devices such as radio antennaes and RMS's and such.
Also being able to do EVA. And instead of modules wich fuel flows through, you kind of put pipes, so i can have the orbiter's fuel tanks somewhere else. Also hydraulic fluid tanks and hydraulic stuff like thoose funny suspended legs the moon lander had, and flaps. Also i would wish items you sent into space, would stay there after you ended the mission, so you could fly up there, dock with some station you buildt, refuel and fly to the moon or something.

Also with that orange thing i buildt a hovercraft, basically i just added a LF rocket below, then i pushed the throttle to 0, turned on the LF rocket and carefully throttled up. Its really funny to fly hovercrafts, they are hard to maneuver, and funny to land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 12, 2011, 01:22:54 pm
Finally got it to 5k. Awesome stuff, Sordid. :D

Also, my suggestion to you guys is that, when you get to a single rocket, put MASSIVE amounts of roll on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 12, 2011, 01:35:43 pm
I kept messing around with different designs last night. I have one now that works pretty well but I don't think it has quiet enough umpth to get me into orbit, I never hit the 2k speed mark. It could be because I am actually trying to launch a full liquid engine and tank into orbit so my Kerbs can make a return trip.

I have fond that no matter what I do, strapping a ton of SRBs on as my first stage always turns me into a cruise missile (Stop calling them ICBMs, those actually go into space and come back) unless I put a ton of SAS on as well.

At one point last night I went into full cruise missile mode but decided I wanted to try and save the crew. As soon as it was safe (after SRB burn out) I blew the couplers and turned on my liquid engine. I manged to get my rocket pointed straight up but I was still falling to the ground rapidly. 400m, 300, 200m, at about 150m my desent finally stopped and I started to gain altitude. I managed to get the rocket over water and gave the crew a safe splashdown.

I have high hopes for this game, very high. On the rocket design stage the most obvious thing they need is the symatery  addition, which is already coming. Other than that it would be really really nice if you could save chuncks of your ship and if there was an undo button. Finally, the ability to put a module inbetween two others is a must (FUUUU I forgot to add the decouplier between my command module and the final stage!).

In the future I hope they make it into a game that kind of follows the space race of humanity. You start with a goverment entity and have to figure out how to build rockets and how to get them into orbit. The better you do the more funding you get. At some point you get the option to agree to build a space station and then you have to manage launch manifests.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 01:36:48 pm
I can picture trying to dock with a space station with the available thrusters atm...

Jeb: Alright, we're lined up with the docking port at ten meters, engaging thrusters...

*screams into the space station and explodes*

I'm really interested how the developers plan to pull off that level of precision control. Anyone who has tried docking in orbiter knows what a bitch it can be, let alone the rendezvous... ugh. My rendezvous are so horribly inefficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vattic on July 12, 2011, 01:41:08 pm
I've been messing around with this since last weekend. I'm glad to see the topic has grown and that their forums are back online. Hoping I get into orbit next weekend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mikefictiti0us on July 12, 2011, 02:00:35 pm
Indeed, great find. That part pack that is linked in the first post is old though, an updated version with a couple of new pieces can be found here. (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.0) (KSP_parts_v_1_03.zip)

Quote from: greatorder on July 12, 2011, 01:59:21 pm
now, how do I get off the flight simulator and go back to the designing?

Hit escape, End Flight, Vehicle Assembly Building.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 02:03:01 pm
Alright, so, my latest design is a partial failure. It tilted over waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early and started flipping. However, I managed to get it to 24000m through careful boosting.

However, I soon lost my main engines. I don't know why, maybe I just ran out. Regardless, I decided to get the hell out and used one of those custom parts. the one that lets you boost away. All of my crew made it back safely.

Is it me or is Jebediah almost always excited even when everyone else is going "OH MY GOD WE'RE GOING TO DIE!"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 02:04:15 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 12, 2011, 01:35:43 pm
It would be really really nice if there was an undo button.

Ctrl+z, ctrl+y.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 02:06:53 pm
Quote from: Taz on July 12, 2011, 02:05:50 pm
Made it to 170,000m this time.

Was slightly disappointed when my ship still fell back. [Not that I would've had enough fuel to save them otherwise.]

Is there no way to get entirely out of orbit currently, or did I just not go far enough?

It is possible to go into orbit and/or blast off into deep space, you just didn't go high and/or fast enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 02:18:43 pm
One design I made, if decoupled with proper timing, becomes a multi-warhead missile. It's pretty fun watching them fly off into the horizon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 12, 2011, 02:36:43 pm
Doombox mkXIV was my first rocket that actually reached space.

It did so by reaching 7000m/s within the first 100 thousand meters, then the engines exploded due to overheat I couldn't stop even after turning them off completely, yet the command module somehow survived and now it's just floating. This game is great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mikefictiti0us on July 12, 2011, 02:40:56 pm
Quote from: Akura on July 12, 2011, 02:18:43 pm
One design I made, if decoupled with proper timing, becomes a multi-warhead missile. It's pretty fun watching them fly off into the horizon.

Hah, I actually just made something similar. Totally unintentional as well. The large rockets overheat on my design, so I decouple them while they've got about a quarter of their fuel left. Cue them flying around like missiles. Actually might try and see if I can collide with one of them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 02:43:05 pm
I got to 200k on a two-stage rocket. Stage 1 was the Ubercharge: Basically a massive tank with the mega-engine. That breaks at around 50k. The second stage is a one-tank liquid that gets blasted up to 100k before fuel starts becoming a concern. Those megatanks are surprisingly explosive, even when they're empty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 12, 2011, 03:09:55 pm
Man, some of those goon parts look REALLY useful- I'm still using default. I can't side-mount anything without having the ship bend too damn much. I just got past 200k on a 3-stager (two stages involving three solid-boosters, and a third single fuel booster with two tanks). I'm out of fuel and just seeing how high I can go...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 12, 2011, 03:25:27 pm
Got ALMOST to 100000m.. Then the pod started descending.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 03:26:13 pm
Do we have a list of extra parts packs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 03:36:23 pm
Spoiler: This shouldn't work, but it kinda does (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 03:26:13 pm
Do we have a list of extra parts packs?
I would like a list of this too. Maybe one big compilation pack?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 04:23:20 pm
Here's the list I can find. Note that sometimes they have stuff other packs have too.

First page link: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29364470/EXTRA_EXTRA_PUT_IN_PARTS.rar or http://www.mediafire.com/?f36kytio353rfmo
Jay's post in page 12: http://mod.gib.me/kerbal/mods/

And... I believe that's it after going through the goon page. Which has all sorts of crazy crap on it.

Like, did you know more command modules=more turning speed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mikefictiti0us on July 12, 2011, 04:39:31 pm
Woot, made it to 700km and it's still going. The Death Machine is a success. Note the horror on the faces of Bill & Bob as it dawns upon them that they are forever doomed to wander the icy embrace of the cosmos, wedged between a gibbering madman.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, anyone managed to return to the planet after breaking orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vorbicon on July 12, 2011, 04:40:37 pm
What this game needs more than anything, is a flexible (as in it's length can be as long or as short as needed) structure than can be placed between two objects to "hold" them together, keeping them from flying apart or together. Obviously, with more stress, more of these would be needed to keep things held together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 04:47:55 pm
The wings are effectively useless. They add weight and unbalance the ship with no perceivable benefits. They're technically just there to look good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 12, 2011, 04:57:26 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 04:47:55 pm
The wings are effectively useless. They add weight and unbalance the ship with no perceivable benefits. They're technically just there to look good.

Well, I made a ship that spun upwards quite nicely even tough it had wings. But It didn't get very far..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 12, 2011, 05:01:26 pm
Hmm.

It occurs to me, that if you get more than 2500 m/s at the 100k level, you'll essentially fly forever if left undisturbed. Also, at 15000K, you slow down at exactly 0.1m/min. How nice.

Also,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Silfurdreki on July 12, 2011, 05:15:05 pm
This game is great! When I read through this thread (and when my rockets explode catastrophically hilariously), the expression on my face was like the one permanently stuck on Jebediah's face.

I almost got into orbit with 1/3 of a tank of fuel left earlier today. I then used the last fuel to stabilize the orbit, overshot, and then flew into space.

Is it not possible to place fuel tanks directly beneath couplers? I can only place fuel tanks on the tri-coupler. Other couplers won't let me, unless I place a decoupler in between.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on July 12, 2011, 05:30:13 pm
Quote from: Vorbicon on July 12, 2011, 04:40:37 pm
What this game needs more than anything, is a flexible (as in it's length can be as long or as short as needed) structure than can be placed between two objects to "hold" them together, keeping them from flying apart or together. Obviously, with more stress, more of these would be needed to keep things held together.

It's planned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: chaoticag on July 12, 2011, 05:31:09 pm
Quote from: Silfurdreki on July 12, 2011, 05:15:05 pm
This game is great! When I read through this thread (and when my rockets explode catastrophically hilariously), the expression on my face was like the one permanently  I can only place fuel tanks on the tri-coupler. Other couplers won't let me, unless I place a decoupler in between.
Well, not on their own, no, but if you have a multi-stage rocket, then you can attach the fuel tank directly to a rocket, and they'll detach at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 12, 2011, 05:38:35 pm
Quote from: mikefictiti0us on July 12, 2011, 04:39:31 pm
Also, anyone managed to return to the planet after breaking orbit?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: hemmingjay on July 12, 2011, 05:51:52 pm
so on my 4th design I am 400k plus out in space and have some fuel left, but I have no idea how to maintain an orbit.  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 05:56:05 pm
The planet's atmosphere effectively ends at 40,000 meters up. You start leaning your rocket over before that, and once you're out of atmosphere lean your rocket completely to the side and mess with the throttle to get a good speed going, usually around 2000 to 2500 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:05:22 pm
Liquid rockets are surprisingly effective, especially when combined with effective fuel management. Solid rockets never overheat unless put in a three, and the überengine overheats damn fast if overthrust is on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 06:07:02 pm
A good explaination of what orbit seems to be right now that I've found: You're falling and missing the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
The patch scheduled for the 18th has been moved.

To today.

Quote from: HavesteR
Hehe, I might have some good news I think ;)

Since the next few tasks we have lined up have little to do with the current features already in, and we need to stress test the new symmetry and set-aside funcions, as well as the update checker that went out with the last version, we're going to release v0.8.1 RIGHT NOW!

I'll let everyone know once it's uploaded and ready!

Cheers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 06:11:21 pm
Woo!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 06:12:37 pm
I might be on a return course but i'm not sure. I'm 2 hours into my flight and i'm 6,750k above Kerbal and climbing. Note kilometers, not meters.

I'll start from the beginning. My rocket was the module+parachute, decoupler, SAS module, liquid fuel engine with 2 tanks, decoupler, tri-couple and 3 sets of liquid fuel engine with 2 fuel tanks each.

I ended up in orbit with my single liquid fuel engine still attached with half a tank left. I took the liberty of recording the numbers on this orbit:

Apoapsis: 64,307m in height at 2,297.4m/s

Periapsis 54,790m in height at 2,330.8m/s

Having half a fuel tank left I could either deorbit or go for broke and see how far out it could take me. I decided on the latter, so at periapsis I did a pro-grade burn, using all my fuel and boy did I fly. My speed only got up to around 3700m/s, but being in orbit gravity didn't have much an effect.

Because of how I did the burn and how far out i've gotten relative to my starting point i'm not sure if i'm going to enter the atmosphere at an extremely high rate of speed or slingshot around Kerbal and go back into space. I'm still climbing at a little over 1k per second so I don't know if I have the time to find out. I'm just in the command module with a parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:13:05 pm
I need a moment.
Currently crying happy tears like a goddamn boss so hard you don't even know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: hemmingjay on July 12, 2011, 06:16:44 pm
RPS did a piece on it today http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/12/trans-lunar-kerbal-space-program/#comments
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 12, 2011, 06:17:32 pm
Quote from: Taz on July 12, 2011, 06:00:56 pm
So, I was curious to see how many fuel tanks I could put on my ship and still fly with one liquid rocket, resulting in this setup:

<Pod>
<Fuel Tank>
<Fuel Tank>
<Fuel Tank>
<Liquid Rocket>

I was.. uh.. surprised with the result, to say the least.
You're not trying hard enough.
You can put 6 fuel tanks to one engine if you put a coupler at the bottom. Made it into space that way.
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 12, 2011, 05:01:26 pm
Hmm.

It occurs to me, that if you get more than 2500 m/s at the 100k level, you'll essentially fly forever if left undisturbed. Also, at 15000K, you slow down at exactly 0.1m/min. How nice.

Yes, that is called escape velocity, your name is quite fitting  8). Kearth still maintains a g of about 9.81 m/s^2, and past 1000k it becomes relatively negligible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:22:38 pm
Quote from: Taz on July 12, 2011, 06:20:32 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 12, 2011, 06:17:32 pm
You're not trying hard enough.
You can put 6 fuel tanks to one engine if you put a coupler at the bottom. Made it into space that way.

If you have to ask, you're not going fast enough yet.
Huh, so you can..

.. Why?

If you have to ask, you're not going fast enough yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 06:23:21 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
The patch scheduled for the 18th has been moved.

To today.
Hells yeah.

Hopefully most of the custom sections will still work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:25:15 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 06:23:21 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
The patch scheduled for the 18th has been moved.

To today.
Hells yeah.

Hopefully most of the custom sections will still work.

Watch the video on the 0.8.1 symmetry. The custom parts are in the list of stuff. All of them minus the ultratank that looks like a caged orange.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 06:26:09 pm
Technically, if kerbal is the only source of gravity there is no escape velocity. The only reason Earth has one is because you trade the earths' for the moons' or suns' gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on July 12, 2011, 06:32:03 pm
Now, someone need to try to fly into the Ksun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 12, 2011, 06:33:32 pm
Quote from: Sheb on July 12, 2011, 06:32:03 pm
Now, someone need to try to fly into the Ksun.
I'm pretty sure it's been tried with no success. I think at this stage the sun doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:34:09 pm
That should be easy. Just put boosters EVERYWHERE and you should be golden for dying of starvation in the cold depths of space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on July 12, 2011, 06:35:50 pm
I don't think it has been tried. If the sun is at the same distance of Kerbal as it is from the Earth IRL, you'd need one year at 5,000 km/s to reach it. Dunno how far is the Lagrange point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 06:37:46 pm
And even at a ridiculous speed you would have to let KSP run for months and months to reach the sun without time fiddling. Assuming Kerpal's distance from the sun is relative to the earths.

Jeb Bob and Bill are 2 hours 20 minutes into their flight and 8,700k from Kerbal. They're slowing down by 0.1m/s every few seconds.

edit: Jeb is still having a ball
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:40:50 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 06:37:46 pm
And even at a ridiculous speed you would have to let KSP run for months and months to reach the sun without time fiddling. Assuming Kerpal's distance from the sun is relative to the earths.

Jeb Bob and Bill are 2 hours 20 minutes into their flight and 8,700k from Kerbal. They're slowing down by 0.1m/s every few seconds.

Holy shit, they may actually come back down by 2015 at that rate!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:41:51 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
The patch scheduled for the 18th has been moved.

To today.

Quote from: HavesteR
Hehe, I might have some good news I think ;)

Since the next few tasks we have lined up have little to do with the current features already in, and we need to stress test the new symmetry and set-aside funcions, as well as the update checker that went out with the last version, we're going to release v0.8.1 RIGHT NOW!

I'll let everyone know once it's uploaded and ready!

Cheers

*ejaculates wildly all over the keyboard and screen*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 06:43:46 pm
How are people getting to this forum?  Every link I click goes 404 for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 06:45:29 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 06:41:51 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:07:14 pm
The patch scheduled for the 18th has been moved.

To today.

Quote from: HavesteR
Hehe, I might have some good news I think ;)

Since the next few tasks we have lined up have little to do with the current features already in, and we need to stress test the new symmetry and set-aside funcions, as well as the update checker that went out with the last version, we're going to release v0.8.1 RIGHT NOW!

I'll let everyone know once it's uploaded and ready!

Cheers

*ejaculates wildly all over the keyboard and screen*

...Tissue?
Or fifty?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 06:52:21 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 06:43:46 pm
How are people getting to this forum?  Every link I click goes 404 for me.
Flush your DNS cache.
You're still trying to access the temporary site.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 06:53:06 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 06:43:46 pm
How are people getting to this forum?  Every link I click goes 404 for me.
By clicking on it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 06:54:19 pm
Did you even read the second half of his post?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:59:46 pm
 ;)

Posted on SA forums...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Huh, what's this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 07:00:27 pm
...what.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:01:02 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:59:46 pm
;)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Huh, what's this.

*ejaculates some more*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 07:02:23 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:01:02 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:59:46 pm
;)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Huh, what's this.

*ejaculates some more*

I'm going to go get a cork, some duct tape and a box of surgical equipment. You stay riiiight there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 07:03:29 pm
Alright, i'm cutting this off at 10,000k. I ain't coming back down for many many hours. Keep smiling Jeb.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bring on 8.1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 12, 2011, 07:04:18 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:01:02 pm
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 06:59:46 pm
;)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Huh, what's this.

*ejaculates some more*

Hey careful with that! You could hit someone ya know!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 12, 2011, 07:10:54 pm
Hmmm... I appear to be having a problem with moving the command capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 07:11:44 pm
0.8.1 is up.
Website dies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: mattie2009 on July 12, 2011, 07:13:29 pm
Hands up if you're surprised.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 12, 2011, 07:15:18 pm
Quote from: Ultimuh on July 12, 2011, 07:04:18 pm
Hey careful with that! You could hit someone ya know!

Be careful, Ben! (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbzqh5_kids-show-fail_fun)

Here we go symetry
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Seriyu on July 12, 2011, 07:17:31 pm
Jebidiah is the most optimistic kerbal (kerbalite?) ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
I personally find it interesting that Kerbal is essentially a Pangaea-like with a supercontinent on one side of the planet and a giant ocean on the other.

Also, YAY 0.8.1!!!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 07:24:50 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
I personally find it interesting that Kerbal is essentially a Pangaea-like with a supercontinent on one side of the planet and a giant ocean on the other.

Makes orbits kinda boring, but it's a nice place.

0.8.1 does make construction a lot easier, now that laterally mounted parts line up cleaner (although not foolproof!), and you can detach stuff without removing it.  But be warned, the old "why won't this reconnect like I know it can" bug is still there with large clumps of pieces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:28:31 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
I personally find it interesting that Kerbal is essentially a Pangaea-like with a supercontinent on one side of the planet and a giant ocean on the other.

What I've noticed is that the continent we launch from looks suspiciously like Africa.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 07:33:37 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:28:31 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
I personally find it interesting that Kerbal is essentially a Pangaea-like with a supercontinent on one side of the planet and a giant ocean on the other.

What I've noticed is that the continent we launch from looks suspiciously like Africa.

Who knows why the developers (themselves based out of Mexico City), decided we should launch from Mozambique...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
Urgh, 0.8.1 is buggy. I've had multiple problems so far:

Detached items are floating. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z fixed it.
Detached items are floating again. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z did not fix it.
Command capsule could not be dropped once selected.

Maybe rushing it was a bad idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vorbicon on July 12, 2011, 07:44:29 pm
A bug I had with a recent design, I had two boosters connected via radial decouplers to a small liquid rocket, with a massive liquid rocket setup underneath it. Problem is, when I fired off the massive rockets to launch, the two boosters fired off as well. Didn't hurt anything, but kind of a waste. And yes, I had a similar design (just not as symmetrical) in the previous version that fired through it's stages properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 07:48:52 pm
Yeah, tons of control and interface bugs and randomness in this update, but at least it shows they're working on it.

Spoiler: How do you know when you're a smash?  Fanart. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 07:52:22 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 07:48:52 pm
Yeah, tons of control and interface bugs and randomness in this update, but at least it shows they're working on it.

Spoiler: How do you know when you're a smash?  Fanart. (click to show/hide)

I need more!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 12, 2011, 07:53:04 pm
Wooo, I didn't get into orbit but I made my first... semi-successful engine powered vertical landing... thing. =P

I landed on some grass but as soon as I touched down the thing tipped over and the command capsule fell off. But oh well, everyone's in one piece =)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 07:59:33 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
Detached items are floating. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z fixed it.
Detached items are floating again. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z did not fix it.
Command capsule could not be dropped once selected.
"Detached items are floating"? -- I sure hope you're not considering the new feature that makes it such that we don't have to delete everything to add a part in the middle a bug.
Drag to the part menu and they'll vanish as expected.
I had them get stuck to the mouse a few times, but that's a different bug, similar to the next one.
"Command capsule could not be dropped once selected." -- Starting a new ship with the button fixed that one for me.

EDIT: Custom parts will need to have a few changes made to make symmetry work properly with them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 08:11:55 pm
You have to drag to the menu or hit delete to remove them now, tarran. not really a bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 12, 2011, 08:17:07 pm
If you're dragging around a piece you don't want you can delete it with delete on your keyboard. Tutorial needs a little updating.

This is soooo much easier. This is the first time i've been able to use wings too as I had a hard time getting them all even, they actually work pretty well. Will need to do some comparing with SAS and other experimenting to get a good balance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 08:17:17 pm
Hahahahahaha.
An SAS module with winglets in 12-sided symmetry configuration can fly without any power source.
The kerbals have invented self-sustaining flight before we have!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 12, 2011, 08:28:49 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 04:47:55 pm
The wings are effectively useless. They add weight and unbalance the ship with no perceivable benefits. They're technically just there to look good.

I quite disagree- they seem to prevent my ships from going out of control sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 08:31:44 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 08:17:17 pm
Hahahahahaha.
An SAS module with winglets in 12-sided symmetry configuration can fly without any power source.
The kerbals have invented self-sustaining flight before we have!
How does it get off the ground, though?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 12, 2011, 08:34:16 pm
Is 0.8.1 more CPU-intensive for anyone else? I get low fps spikes which I didn't get before (not I don't mean the 60fps cap)  May just a hiccup with my system but putting it out there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: puke on July 12, 2011, 08:36:45 pm
Hey, is there any chance we can map the scroll wheel to a key or something?  I dont have one of those on my laptop, and cant make Teh Biggenest rockets without it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: puke on July 12, 2011, 08:38:38 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 08:31:44 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 08:17:17 pm
Hahahahahaha.
An SAS module with winglets in 12-sided symmetry configuration can fly without any power source.
The kerbals have invented self-sustaining flight before we have!
How does it get off the ground, though?

with a really tall stack of decouplers, all in the same stage?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 08:39:16 pm
Quote from: puke on July 12, 2011, 08:36:45 pm
Hey, is there any chance we can map the scroll wheel to a key or something?  I dont have one of those on my laptop, and cant make Teh Biggenest rockets without it.
Most laptops don't have a scroll wheel, its on the mouse. ;)
but have you tried Pg up/Pg down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 12, 2011, 08:45:35 pm
On the laptop I used you could move your finger up and down the side of the touchpad and it acted as a scroll wheel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 07:59:33 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
Detached items are floating. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z fixed it.
Detached items are floating again. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z did not fix it.
Command capsule could not be dropped once selected.
"Detached items are floating"? -- I sure hope you're not considering the new feature that makes it such that we don't have to delete everything to add a part in the middle a bug.
I said that wrong. I accidentally omitted "And cannot be selected at all afterwards". They're just stuck there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 12, 2011, 08:49:51 pm
Spoiler: A workable 3-stage design (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 07:48:52 pm
Spoiler: How do you know when you're a smash?  Fanart. (click to show/hide)
I... I think I just found a new desktop background.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 12, 2011, 08:58:15 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 07:59:33 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
Detached items are floating. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z fixed it.
Detached items are floating again. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z did not fix it.
Command capsule could not be dropped once selected.
"Detached items are floating"? -- I sure hope you're not considering the new feature that makes it such that we don't have to delete everything to add a part in the middle a bug.
I said that wrong. I accidentally omitted "And cannot be selected at all afterwards". They're just stuck there.
Does this help (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=150.msg0#new)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 09:03:02 pm
I think those high-capacity ball tanks are a little too overpowered. I was able to get a stable orbit with one of those, one thruster, and an SAS module to keep it steady.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 09:08:06 pm
I think basically all parts that actually work are at this point "overpowered".  Especially since they were just modded in as proof of concept, like everything else.  I'm sure once the engine is much farther along and HarvesteR has better established what's actually expected of stuff, the modded stuff will come more in line with an actual challenge.

I think they're a lot of fun though.  I made a rocket exactly like that, and just made a low-speed thrust cruise around the countryside, and returned to the pad.  Crashed on landing though, didn't leave enough altitude for the chute to deploy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 09:09:35 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 12, 2011, 08:58:15 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 07:59:33 pm
Quote from: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
Detached items are floating. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z fixed it.
Detached items are floating again. Cannot be deleted. Ctrl Z did not fix it.
Command capsule could not be dropped once selected.
"Detached items are floating"? -- I sure hope you're not considering the new feature that makes it such that we don't have to delete everything to add a part in the middle a bug.
I said that wrong. I accidentally omitted "And cannot be selected at all afterwards". They're just stuck there.
Does this help (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=150.msg0#new)?
No, it doesn't help at all. But at least it's going to be fixed next version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 12, 2011, 09:12:19 pm
Have they made the component connections more... brittle? I had a ship last version that took off like a dream, albeit bending at odd angles and swinging back and forth like a pendulum. Now it just tears itself apart on the launchpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 09:25:07 pm
What are you using for screenshots?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Thendash on July 12, 2011, 09:35:23 pm
Steam is always good at taking screens, easy and uploads for you. You just have to run it through steam by adding it to your library.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: McTraveller on July 12, 2011, 09:44:16 pm
Quote from: Xinvoker on July 12, 2011, 12:51:19 am
Challenge:

Achieve orbit with the simplest ship possible. Default parts only. Simplicity is defined by the sum of liquid fuel tanks+solid boosters.
I managed to do it with 5 liquid fuel tanks +3SRB's.

Simplicity number=8 . Beat that! (easily I bet)

I will soon edit this post with screenshots
Screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just did it in 0.8.0, default parts. Simplicity 5.  I don't think it can be done in less than that though.

And, although it wasn't the design I used to get to orbit with simplicity 5, solid and liquid rockets firing at the same time make an awesome sound.

The successful design:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 09:50:44 pm
Where should i upload it too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: puke on July 12, 2011, 09:50:51 pm
Quote from: OzyTheSage on July 12, 2011, 08:45:35 pm
On the laptop I used you could move your finger up and down the side of the touchpad and it acted as a scroll wheel.

yeah, mine does that too.  but the game does not recognize it as such, and it does not produce any elevation changes.  had the same problem with zooming in Spore.

Quote from: Aklyon on July 12, 2011, 08:39:16 pm
Most laptops don't have a scroll wheel, its on the mouse. ;)
but have you tried Pg up/Pg down?

Yeeeeees.... I tried just about everything on my little keyboard with no success, does PgUp/Dn work for you?  I even tried it with the external numeric keypad that I keep around for the Dwarf Fortressing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jack A T on July 12, 2011, 09:55:39 pm
Why I should never be allowed to design spaceships:

Spoiler: Large images (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 10:05:18 pm
For anyone who can't find it again, Goon mods (http://mod.gib.me/kerbal/mods/), with a couple updates.  This directory should be added to the OP, since it's actively changed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 10:17:12 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 09:25:07 pm
What are you using for screenshots?
Make a /screenshots/ folder in the game directory, press F1.
Done.  Though if you're using a high resolution, I would recommend converting to JPEG first.

In unrelated news, 0.8.2 is already up.  Check the site.
Quote
Bug Fixes:
* Fixed a serious bug where swapping about symmetrical parts would crash the game
* Pod cannot be dropped if an Escape Tower (PunchOut addon) is attached
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on July 12, 2011, 10:27:15 pm
Sadly, the site isn't loading for me. :P

I wonder how the designers feel about releasing things and having their sites crash in short order. :P

Edit: Ooop, now it loads... slowly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 10:28:45 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 10:17:12 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 09:25:07 pm
What are you using for screenshots?
Make a /screenshots/ folder in the game directory, press F1.
Done.  Though if you're using a high resolution, I would recommend converting to JPEG first.

In unrelated news, 0.8.2 is already up.  Check the site.
Quote
Bug Fixes:
* Fixed a serious bug where swapping about symmetrical parts would crash the game
* Pod cannot be dropped if an Escape Tower (PunchOut addon) is attached

Lol when i go to downloads it doesn't even show 0.8.1 let alone 0.8.2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:32:02 pm
Link for anyone who cant get on the site

.82 patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pri1ehlccbyvr51/KSP_win_0_8_2.zip
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 12, 2011, 10:33:39 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:32:02 pm
Link for anyone who cant get on the site

.82 patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pri1ehlccbyvr51/KSP_win_0_8_2.zip
Bit of a misnomer there.
That is the full download, not a patch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:36:21 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 10:33:39 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:32:02 pm
Link for anyone who cant get on the site

.82 patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pri1ehlccbyvr51/KSP_win_0_8_2.zip
Bit of a misnomer there.
That is the full download, not a patch.

Typo, but I haven't seen any patch downloads, only the full. So it's irrelevant whichever it is just click the damn button and quit whining  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 12, 2011, 10:38:30 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:32:02 pm
Link for anyone who cant get on the site

.82 patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pri1ehlccbyvr51/KSP_win_0_8_2.zip

Sweet cant wait to check out the awesomeness
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 13, 2011, 12:16:49 am
I'm sure a chunk of people know this, but if  you stack solid fuel rockets on top of each other without couplers and activate them at the same time, you can get tons of cheep thrust. Like, launch GIANT liquid fuel rockets cheap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 12:28:37 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 12, 2011, 09:08:06 pm
I think basically all parts that actually work are at this point "overpowered".
I disagree. The vanilla parts are perfectly functional and can get you far into space or into a stable orbit with good design and piloting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 02:22:52 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:36:21 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 12, 2011, 10:33:39 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 12, 2011, 10:32:02 pm
Link for anyone who cant get on the site

.82 patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pri1ehlccbyvr51/KSP_win_0_8_2.zip
Bit of a misnomer there.
That is the full download, not a patch.

Typo, but I haven't seen any patch downloads, only the full. So it's irrelevant whichever it is just click the damn button and quit whining  :P


You can update from the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jehdin on July 13, 2011, 02:28:22 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 02:22:52 am
You can update from the game.

That just checks to see if there are updates available, you still have to go to the site to download the new version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 02:50:46 am
Ah, okay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 13, 2011, 04:00:13 am
Just so some of you know, there's a ghetto hack for a cloning tool.
Quote
First, create the set of parts you want to copy. Then pull it off the rocket and leave it there.
Then, Hit Ctrl+Z. The frozen parts are not taken into account when undoing/redoing, so the moved parts will be created again, and the frozen copy will remain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 13, 2011, 04:53:50 am
Spoiler: Clearly the Safest rocket I ever designed... (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Oh my gods it actually got to separation (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 13, 2011, 05:00:19 am
I am ripping off that design, Rilder, in 3...2...1...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 13, 2011, 05:10:50 am
So, I used a bunch of big fuel rockets to try and get myself up to start with.... They didn't work. I scratched my head and tried to see if the next stage would work. So, I decoupled it.

Suddenly, the big fuel rockets were working and shot me up into the sky.

Why did this happen?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 13, 2011, 05:16:01 am
WHY IS THIS WORKING?!?!!?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 13, 2011, 05:22:10 am
Quote from: Taz on July 13, 2011, 05:14:21 am
Quote from: RF on July 13, 2011, 05:10:50 am
Why did this happen?
Are you sure everything was set up in the right order?

As in, you checked that you didn't have the rockets activating in the same phase as you decoupled them?

100% certain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 13, 2011, 05:23:23 am
Well this was a fun last hour:

Spoiler: Pics (click to show/hide)

In short: Successful orbit with default parts. But the attempts to get them back down were... less than successful, causing them to be stuck in an orbit that has an apogee of 140 km and a perigee of 37 km (so close). What is strange is how it looks like the terrain is spinning during part of the orbit. Could just be illusion, but it makes it look like I'm circling one of the poles or something rather than going in a straight orbit.
But I did pass the launchpad twice.

At least Jebediah is happy with how things turned out.

Spoiler: Rocket (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 13, 2011, 05:55:39 am
Quote from: Lightning4 on July 13, 2011, 05:23:23 am
What is strange is how it looks like the terrain is spinning during part of the orbit. Could just be illusion, but it makes it look like I'm circling one of the poles or something rather than going in a straight orbit.

Yes, passing the poles causes weird stuff to happen. Known bug.

Edit:

Spoiler: Mwahahahahahaaaa! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 13, 2011, 06:15:46 am
Quote from: Rilder on July 13, 2011, 05:16:01 am
WHY IS THIS WORKING?!?!!?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Keep adding more.  That's awesome.

Quote from: Sordid on July 13, 2011, 05:55:39 am
Spoiler: Mwahahahahahaaaa! (click to show/hide)
Oh gog.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 06:23:59 am
RF, I believe it is a known bug that when the first stag won't lift (because of weight), if you decouple them, they count as having zero weight, thus allowing them to thrust you up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Shadowlord on July 13, 2011, 06:40:14 am
So I built a rocket with multiple capsules, gave them parachutes, and ejected them with the boosters they were on top of. Turns out that (a) their parachutes don't work, and (b) there are clones of the crew in each capsule!

Bob, Bill, and Jeb died so many times.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Oh the kerbalanity)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fanofgaming on July 13, 2011, 06:47:58 am
I just realized that this is the QWOP (http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html) of simulation games.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:18:54 am
Shadowlord, they do work, except the stage has to be attached to the main command pod when you activate it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 13, 2011, 07:22:56 am
Quote from: Fanofgaming on July 13, 2011, 06:47:58 am
I just realized that this is the QWOP (http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html) of simulation games.
Its not that hard. We haven't had to try docking in orbit yet. Or dodging the space debris of previous flights. Or both at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: engy on July 13, 2011, 07:34:04 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 13, 2011, 06:40:14 am
So I built a rocket with multiple capsules, gave them parachutes, and ejected them with the boosters they were on top of. Turns out that (a) their parachutes don't work, and (b) there are clones of the crew in each capsule!

Bob, Bill, and Jeb died so many times.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Oh the kerbalanity)

You have to give parachutes the order to fire before you decouple them, otherwise they don't get the order.  So you have to fire parachutes, then decouple.  And it's sad the Pilot Cams are in the first Command Modual that hits the ground :(.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 08:20:31 am
Quote from: engy on July 13, 2011, 07:34:04 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 13, 2011, 06:40:14 am
So I built a rocket with multiple capsules, gave them parachutes, and ejected them with the boosters they were on top of. Turns out that (a) their parachutes don't work, and (b) there are clones of the crew in each capsule!

Bob, Bill, and Jeb died so many times.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Oh the kerbalanity)

You have to give parachutes the order to fire before you decouple them, otherwise they don't get the order.  So you have to fire parachutes, then decouple.  And it's sad the Pilot Cams are in the first Command Modual that hits the ground :(.

I believe that the parachutes also only work when the main command pod hits 300 or so metres above sea level.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 08:34:56 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 08:20:31 am
Quote from: engy on July 13, 2011, 07:34:04 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 13, 2011, 06:40:14 am
So I built a rocket with multiple capsules, gave them parachutes, and ejected them with the boosters they were on top of. Turns out that (a) their parachutes don't work, and (b) there are clones of the crew in each capsule!

Bob, Bill, and Jeb died so many times.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Oh the kerbalanity)

You have to give parachutes the order to fire before you decouple them, otherwise they don't get the order.  So you have to fire parachutes, then decouple.  And it's sad the Pilot Cams are in the first Command Modual that hits the ground :(.

I believe that the parachutes also only work when the main command pod hits 300 or so metres above sea level.
Nope, you can engage the parachutes very low to the ground, it's just that you're not going to survive if you're falling fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:00:44 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 08:34:56 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 08:20:31 am
Quote from: engy on July 13, 2011, 07:34:04 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 13, 2011, 06:40:14 am
So I built a rocket with multiple capsules, gave them parachutes, and ejected them with the boosters they were on top of. Turns out that (a) their parachutes don't work, and (b) there are clones of the crew in each capsule!

Bob, Bill, and Jeb died so many times.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Oh the kerbalanity)

You have to give parachutes the order to fire before you decouple them, otherwise they don't get the order.  So you have to fire parachutes, then decouple.  And it's sad the Pilot Cams are in the first Command Modual that hits the ground :(.

I believe that the parachutes also only work when the main command pod hits 300 or so metres above sea level.
Nope, you can engage the parachutes very low to the ground, it's just that you're not going to survive if you're falling fast.

No, what I meant was that the parachut only unfolds and switches to brake mode when the main command pod hits 300m or so.



In other news, an SAS unit slows acceleration by about 0.4 m/s^2.

An orange fuel tank (full) weighs about 6.6 SASs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:22:14 am
Okay, we have some interesting news. Thanks to Codecimal, we have confirmation that greater weight has less slowing effect on your ship, in diminishing returns.

Numbers crunched

240 m/s for one orange liquid fuel tank
175 m/s for two
135 m/s for three

This is all from a standing start, with ten seconds of acceleration.


However, with less starting weight, adding a weight has a GREATER effect. This confirms the theory of diminishing returns.

229 m/s for one tank, one SAS
168 m/s for two tanks one sas
131 m/s for three tanks one sas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 13, 2011, 09:55:09 am
Is there a way to disable the automatic stage configuration? Or manually edit stages in some kind of external editor? Because when you have a rocket with 18 boosters that need to fire in batches of 6, you have to do a lot of drag'n'drop every time you alter the design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 13, 2011, 09:56:46 am
Me and Dsark have been hurping and/or derping for the past bit.

Here (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=tZ-XykCeitdK8dMcBCIbziw#gid=0) is the raw data we collected. I'm sure someone with experience in physics or something could figure out the weights and thrusts from it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 10:07:42 am
Quote from: Taz on July 13, 2011, 05:14:21 am
As in, you checked that you didn't have the rockets activating in the same phase as you decoupled them?
They don't start up properly if you do that anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 13, 2011, 10:08:13 am
SO ADORABLE!
Quote
Quote from: Jarvitä on July 13, 2011, 04:16:08 am
From someone on the SA forum:

(http://i.imgur.com/6bw69.gif)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 10:14:55 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:22:14 am
Okay, we have some interesting news. Thanks to Codecimal, we have confirmation that greater weight has less slowing effect on your ship, in diminishing returns.

Numbers crunched

240 m/s for one orange liquid fuel tank
175 m/s for two
135 m/s for three

This is all from a standing start, with ten seconds of acceleration.


However, with less starting weight, adding a weight has a GREATER effect. This confirms the theory of diminishing returns.

229 m/s for one tank, one SAS
168 m/s for two tanks one sas
131 m/s for three tanks one sas.
Hmm....
...Wait a minute.
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:22:14 am
However, with less starting weight, adding a weight has a GREATER effect. This confirms the theory of diminishing returns.
Last I checked, SAS modules don't weigh a negative amount.
Even better, those numbers have LESS change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 13, 2011, 10:18:02 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 13, 2011, 09:55:09 am
Is there a way to disable the automatic stage configuration? Or manually edit stages in some kind of external editor? Because when you have a rocket with 18 boosters that need to fire in batches of 6, you have to do a lot of drag'n'drop every time you alter the design.

The .craft file can be manually edited in notepad, each component has a value specifying which stage it's in. To my knowledge, there's no 3rd party editor for these at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 10:18:31 am
When did we say SAS weighed a negative amount?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 10:40:43 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 10:18:31 am
When did we say SAS weighed a negative amount?
Looking back at it, the issue is actually that you have the numbers set up backwards.
As it stands, you're implying that "tank + SAS" weighs less than "tank".
I won't get into the full grammatical explanation of why that is the case, suffice to say it is.
You've tied the two sets of numbers to the wrong of the two sets of phrases.

...Getting back on topic here, has anybody been patient enough to complete more than one orbit in one run?
I haven't :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on July 13, 2011, 10:47:00 am
A full vanilla design that works!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 10:47:24 am
Quote from: Jay on July 13, 2011, 10:40:43 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 10:18:31 am
When did we say SAS weighed a negative amount?
...Getting back on topic here, has anybody been patient enough to complete more than one orbit in one run?
I haven't :P

I say we make it a challenge - post your orbit x 2 rockets?  :P
I'd guess it will need a proper 3 stage rocket to achieve this.

Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on July 13, 2011, 10:47:00 am
A full vanilla design that works!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That looks good! I'll try this one :D

*It really works! I think i'll try a variant on this and try to do a double orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: jetex1911 on July 13, 2011, 10:48:38 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:00:44 am
No, what I meant was that the parachute only unfolds and switches to brake mode when the main command pod hits 300m or so.

Really? For me, it's 500m.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 13, 2011, 10:52:36 am
Quote from: Alehkhs on July 12, 2011, 07:33:37 pm
Quote from: Sordid on July 12, 2011, 07:28:31 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 12, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
I personally find it interesting that Kerbal is essentially a Pangaea-like with a supercontinent on one side of the planet and a giant ocean on the other.

What I've noticed is that the continent we launch from looks suspiciously like Africa.

Who knows why the developers (themselves based out of Mexico City), decided we should launch from Mozambique...

Probably so that we could just blast straight up and get a view similar to the Blue Marble picture.
In related news, the update seems to have fixed the draw distance problem, Kerbal no longer disappears from the universe around the 1500 K mark.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: dennislp3 on July 13, 2011, 10:57:56 am
Quote from: Taz on July 13, 2011, 09:20:24 am
Anyone know how to make rockets that are still boosting decouple without smashing into eachother/the main ship?

Every time I make something that does this, the rockets fly inwards instead of outwards or straight, resulting in a collision.

I'm basically trying to make a multi-warhead missile, or MIRV.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Although I'm aiming to still make the main pod controllable after launching the warheads, such that I could bring it back to the launchpad after firing.

\ \

I wanted to make it so that the main rocket fires a rocket forward with others attached to it, then activates the radial decouples.. but you can't control decouplers that are separated from the main pod.

you have you make sure that your decouplers are at the TOP of the booster or engine you are going to be ejecting to ensure it flys away from the ship.

you can also use multiple decouplers like so if you don't want to remove the engines and replace them all

DE <==Decoupler at the top is not actually attached to the engine but will still stop it from aiming towards your main rocket
  E
DE

or

DE
  E
  E

just DONT do

  E
  E
DE

this is because the decouplers use an explosion to eject the engine away from it and if it applies force to the bottom of the rocket which is already likely facing
inwards it will simply make it go towards your rocket. Though the issue is not present as much when the engines are empty. I like to use the double decoupler design regardless because it adds stability to my rocket and makes its flight more predictable and less...chaotic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 11:03:16 am
Just talked to a physics guys. Possible reason for the different differences due to weight could be drag. We could potentially work out the air density, if it hasn't been done already.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Simmura McCrea on July 13, 2011, 11:43:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That one worked a little too well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 13, 2011, 12:21:20 pm
Quote from: Simmura McCrea on July 13, 2011, 11:43:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That one worked a little too well.

Good lord. Was that vanilla or extra parts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Burnt Pies on July 13, 2011, 12:27:33 pm
I think I just accidentally put myself in orbit after burning my remaining fuel to attempt to get back to Kerbal.

The round orange fuel tanks are definitely cheating. One of them and a 4-coupler of small solid boosters and I can get to at least 1000km, more if I hadn't been screwing around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 13, 2011, 12:29:12 pm
Quote from: Simmura McCrea on July 13, 2011, 11:43:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That one worked a little too well.

Hahah, awesome. Ship file, maybe? ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Simmura McCrea on July 13, 2011, 12:48:54 pm
Capsule + parachute
Decoupler
Space orange x 3
3m liquid fuel rocket thing
3m decoupler
3m to 1m cone thingy
long SRB, with 4 small SRBS around it

The small SRBs will explode pretty quick, just ignore that, it's fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tilla on July 13, 2011, 01:03:45 pm
Stolen Borrowed from the Something Awful thread, a tribute to our heroes.

(http://i.imgur.com/Jssgz.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 13, 2011, 01:13:43 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on July 13, 2011, 10:47:00 am
A full vanilla design that works!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have made that exact same design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vorbicon on July 13, 2011, 01:21:59 pm
I can't figure out why my radial decouplers aren't working properly anymore. Boosters attached to the decouplers seem to fire off or disconnect at the wrong times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 01:23:41 pm
My latest rocket has 21 vanilla solid boosters in a triangle around the center. it goes form 0 to 300m/s in about 3 seconds up to 3000 m and then it explodes. Obviously a success compared to the last one that just corkscrewed and blew up.

EDIT:Just added 24 rockets around the outside. went 316.5 m/s which must have been the limit in about 2 seconds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 13, 2011, 01:46:41 pm
This game went from insanely hard to almost easy when I discovered that at least half of your ship should be SAS "{

max height: 403 000 meters. Now I'm gonna try some of the extra parts from the first page

EDIT: pic
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 13, 2011, 02:01:44 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on July 13, 2011, 01:46:41 pm
This game went from insanely hard to almost easy when I discovered that at least half of your ship should be SAS "{

max height: 403 000 meters. Now I'm gonna try some of the extra parts from the first page


SAS is great for controlling the SRBs. When you add SRBs you need to add SAS. Therefore, the best place for SAS is on top of the SRB. When the SRB has burnt out the SAS is no longer required and both are jettisioned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Heron TSG on July 13, 2011, 02:13:38 pm
I love this game. So much. I just tried to make a ship that would spin the fastest. It was glorious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 13, 2011, 02:20:07 pm
I love to make spinning ships, and they work surprisingly well...

The basic design is a central column, then add a layer of 3 or 4 boosters around the central column, maybe do this again so that you have a cross, and then ... well, I guess, kind of add more boosters to make a swastika shape. Worst way to describe it, but there you go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 13, 2011, 03:07:06 pm
I just got a max G of 63 during an attempted orbit. 0.o How does one even manage that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 13, 2011, 03:08:00 pm
Orbit? You mean there is more you can do besides go up, go down and explode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 13, 2011, 03:17:56 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 13, 2011, 01:13:43 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on July 13, 2011, 10:47:00 am
A full vanilla design that works!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have made that exact same design.

Some pages ago I posted the same design but with the boosters on the bottom stage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 13, 2011, 03:18:26 pm
WOoo i managed my first orbit !

it was an ellipse orbit, not a circular one, but i'm still proud of my achievement ^^

my design was this :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the farthest i got from the planet was 1 357 km, with a speed of 968.3 m/s (slowest), and then I started accelerating towards the planet, which i grazed as low as 87 550 m, at a speed of 2757.3 m/s (fastest). It was a stable orbit, because i waited long enough to record the same highest altitude/slowest speed a second time.

edit : i also noticed that i could achieve almost 100G by simply spinning my rocket in space with one of the ADSW controls. I wonder if a longer rocket could achieve more Gs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Virex on July 13, 2011, 03:20:52 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 13, 2011, 03:07:06 pm
I just got a max G of 63 during an attempted orbit. 0.o How does one even manage that?
I don't know how you did that, but 63 G is probably lethal. At the very least your kerbalites should have been knocked out and turned blind.


Quote from: Barbarossa the Seal God on July 13, 2011, 02:13:38 pm
I love this game. So much. I just tried to make a ship that would spin the fastest. It was glorious.
With the things we subject our pilots to, it surprises me nobody has made a gyroscopic stabilizer part yet. Who needs SAS if you can just spin your ship to stability?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 13, 2011, 03:35:08 pm
Quote from: Virex on July 13, 2011, 03:20:52 pm
With the things we subject our pilots to, it surprises me nobody has made a gyroscopic stabilizer part yet. Who needs SAS if you can just spin your ship to stability?

Can't you just press Q or E for a while ? That's what i do sometimes, but it makes using the other controls almost impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 13, 2011, 03:46:22 pm
This design has its own natural spin that keeps it pointing up. It's the quick a dirty way of avoiding overly complex subsystems. Of course a bit of wind could wreck everything but that's half the fun.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 13, 2011, 03:49:41 pm
Has anyone considered using the zero weight bug to get platforms into space? As in, build a 9 block below a spaceplatform (build it out of whatever you like, really, a couple've command thingies connected via detonators or something) and then getting THAT into orbit?

I think it might be possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tilla on July 13, 2011, 03:57:18 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/3HMLk.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: vagel7 on July 13, 2011, 04:11:34 pm
Do those long SFR things blow up at like 6500m?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 13, 2011, 04:23:59 pm
So, it seems pretty easy to mod, except for the meshes which are in .DAE text format. Anyone know how to convert a .blend or .3ds to a .DAE? You will be rewarded with a SRB that uses plump helmet wine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 13, 2011, 04:53:07 pm
oop nvm

May aswell do something with this post. I think I might be on to a vanilla design that will ensure Jebediah, Bill and Bob will never see Kerbal again in their lifetime. Needs some tuning...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 05:01:36 pm
Quote from: Sirian on July 13, 2011, 03:18:26 pm
WOoo i managed my first orbit !

it was an ellipse orbit, not a circular one, but i'm still proud of my achievement ^^

my design was this :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the farthest i got from the planet was 1 357 km, with a speed of 968.3 m/s (slowest), and then I started accelerating towards the planet, which i grazed as low as 87 550 m, at a speed of 2757.3 m/s (fastest). It was a stable orbit, because i waited long enough to record the same highest altitude/slowest speed a second time.

edit : i also noticed that i could achieve almost 100G by simply spinning my rocket in space with one of the ADSW controls. I wonder if a longer rocket could achieve more Gs

I tried a similar configuration to this, I could never get it to work :( it always span out and crashed  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 13, 2011, 05:43:40 pm
posting to follow

also, i'm on a limited trafic budget, any reviews on 0.8.3 vs 0.8.2?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 13, 2011, 05:48:33 pm
Huh. For at least visual purposes, setting the explosive potential of something to 1000 doesn't seem to have much effect...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 05:50:31 pm
I just tried a rocket based on Sirian's:

Spoiler: The Wobblebottle (click to show/hide)

The capsule-escape rocket is integral to the design.  Go ahead, try it and see why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 13, 2011, 05:54:16 pm
On a side note;

I saw the new episode of Eureka today. It made me think of this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 13, 2011, 05:54:46 pm
nobody tried the experimental build 8.3? come on guys, i wanna download something
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 13, 2011, 05:55:15 pm
How can you guys tell when you are in orbit? Do you just have to let it run for a long time and see if you ever crash back to earth?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 13, 2011, 05:56:16 pm
When your altitude isn't changing. Or is changing by very very little.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 05:57:54 pm
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 13, 2011, 05:56:16 pm
When your altitude isn't changing. Or is changing by very very little.

Only works if you're in a proper circular orbit, which is really hard to nail.  Eliptical orbits are basically a guess, yeah.  This game direly needs a Time Compression setting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 13, 2011, 06:02:11 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 05:50:31 pm
I just tried a rocket based on Sirian's:

Spoiler: The Wobblebottle (click to show/hide)

The capsule-escape rocket is integral to the design.  Go ahead, try it and see why.

I dared rebuild this from the picture alone, and must say that the capsuleless rocket is obviously superior. Did you sneak in a SAS anywhere? Because the one you had there seems to be lose balance at somewhere near a thousand meters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 06:02:55 pm
The new RCS module is a godsend, except for one thing: it apparently counts as a command module, so the whole crew dies when it hits the ground, even if the command capsule is currently parachuting safely to the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 13, 2011, 06:03:03 pm
What I've been doing is go up straight, then slowly move down to an angle and finally keep your FPV (The yellow one) indicator at the horizon until the altitude remains somewhat stable as you slowly work the power down to zero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 06:18:38 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 13, 2011, 06:02:11 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 05:50:31 pm
The capsule-escape rocket is integral to the design.  Go ahead, try it and see why.

I dared rebuild this from the picture alone, and must say that the capsuleless rocket is obviously superior. Did you sneak in a SAS anywhere? Because the one you had there seems to be lose balance at somewhere near a thousand meters.

Okay, it's parachute < escape-rocket < capsule < breakaway rocket segment < breakaway plus SAS atop liquid fuel nine-pack.  The escape-rocket and top breakaway are one stage (so it busts and fires at once) and the parachute is part of the capsule stage (obviously).  When I launch, after about a thousand feet, the three segments of the nine-pack start wobbling back and forth, with the middle one out of time to the others.  Eventually, a rocket or two will explode, and then I punch out as it's careening to oblivion.  Usually works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Virex on July 13, 2011, 06:25:12 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 06:18:38 pm
Usually works.
If I ever get a ticket to the stars, that's the last thing I want to hear someone say about the space ship...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Simmura McCrea on July 13, 2011, 06:27:41 pm
Quote from: Virex on July 13, 2011, 06:25:12 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 06:18:38 pm
Usually works.
If I ever get a ticket to the stars, that's the last thing I want to hear someone say about the space ship...
I think the worst thing would be to hear "Yeah, I've no idea if this'll work. Good luck, guys!" from the designer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 06:51:10 pm
No, if anything, that's scarier.  Saying "I have no idea if this will work" is an open gamble, and wild untested risks always pay off in adventurous endeavors like spaceflight.  Saying "it usually works" means they've tried it before and it has at least once failed catastrophically.

I love the Wobblebottle.  Every time I launch it, it fails in a different fashion, often with a three-pack breaking loose but not separating, so it's still pushing the craft, but out of control.  Safely descending to Kerth in the middle of an unmanned rocket rodeo is just plain awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 13, 2011, 06:55:19 pm
Found a silly design using the modded ones: make a rocket powered only by punch-out escape rockets. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:25:09 pm
Out of curiosity, I'm trying to make a Saturn V rocket. Given the limitations on linux (i cant tilt or scroll the design) Its abit fiddly.
For one the Saturn 5 stage 1 and 2 has 5 engines. Theres no 5 engine coupler from what ive seen

*edit, actually i think i saw one on one of the addon packs.

Other than that, this is how I see it.

Stage 3:
command module
fuel
fuel
LFR

Stage 2:
fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel
fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel
lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr

Stage 1:
fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel-fuel
lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr-lfr

I'l try this now and see how it goes, on 0.83.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 07:32:40 pm
The addon pack on the front page has a giant fuel tank and rocket that would probably work better than tri-couplers. Plus, they won't flail around like octopus tentacles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:38:23 pm
You will need the big fuel tank. Five engines will otherwise be unable to get off the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:38:52 pm
Yeah the quinti coupler is way to buggy for me to use. I'll try using SRBs instead of liquid rockets for the first two stages.

Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:38:23 pm
You will need the big fuel tank. Five engines will otherwise be unable to get off the ground.

Wrong, they did, and accelerated to around 80 m/s before second stage fired.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 13, 2011, 07:39:22 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 07:32:40 pm
The addon pack on the front page has a giant fuel tank and rocket that would probably work better than tri-couplers. Plus, they won't flail around like octopus tentacles.

Octopus boosters are awesome. They sway in the breeze, which is quite soothing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:46:10 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 13, 2011, 07:39:22 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 07:32:40 pm
The addon pack on the front page has a giant fuel tank and rocket that would probably work better than tri-couplers. Plus, they won't flail around like octopus tentacles.

Octopus boosters are awesome. They sway in the breeze, which is quite soothing.

They scare the shit out of me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:48:28 pm
Why would you use the quinti coupler? Just use the 5x1 adapter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:48:28 pm
Why would you use the quinti coupler? Just use the 5x1 adapter.

That is the 5x1 adaptor. From the extra patch.

*Getting really tired of bay12ers trying to act smart, and failing. If you aren't going to post intelligently just remain silent. It's always the best policy.
Trying to catch people out with your awesome knowledge, and failing, just makes you look like an idiot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:56:24 pm
What do you mean its buggy, then?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 08:00:47 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:48:28 pm
Why would you use the quinti coupler? Just use the 5x1 adapter.

That is the 5x1 adaptor. From the extra patch.

I think he's talking about the adapter cones, for connecting the giant fuel tanks to the normal sized modules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:06:54 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 08:00:47 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:48:28 pm
Why would you use the quinti coupler? Just use the 5x1 adapter.

That is the 5x1 adaptor. From the extra patch.

I think he's talking about the adapter cones, for connecting the giant fuel tanks to the normal sized modules.

If I remember right, there was a quinti coupler that was similar to the tri and a 5x1 that allowed tou to connect, say 5 srbs to the underside of a big fuel tank. Don't know why you would do that but it was just an example.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 08:09:24 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:06:54 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 08:00:47 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 07:48:28 pm
Why would you use the quinti coupler? Just use the 5x1 adapter.

That is the 5x1 adaptor. From the extra patch.

I think he's talking about the adapter cones, for connecting the giant fuel tanks to the normal sized modules.

If I remember right, there was a quinti coupler that was similar to the tri and a 5x1 that allowed tou to connect, say 5 srbs to the underside of a big fuel tank. Don't know why you would do that but it was just an example.

Deadmeat said that part was incredibly buggy for him.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 08:18:06 pm
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, HarvesteR posted a Mercator-esque projection of the Kerbal planet's surface.  Specifically the map skin wrapped onto the globe when viewed from way out in space.

Spoiler: Kerth? (click to show/hide)

He says he just made the heightmap from a random noise generator, and picked a launch location on a coast near the equator.  Any resemblance to terrestrial land masses is pure coincidence.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:28:51 pm
The wiki for anyone that wants it. Doesn't have much yet though. We should just create a link to the 1st page of this forum in a help section. :D

http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 08:30:57 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 07:53:03 pm
*Getting really tired of bay12ers trying to act smart, and failing. If you aren't going to post intelligently just remain silent. It's always the best policy.
Trying to catch people out with your awesome knowledge, and failing, just makes you look like an idiot.
Okay, seriously?
There is the quinticoupler by PeriapsisPrograde that fits on the bottom of any part and is textureless, and there is the 4+1 3m coupler from Sunday Punch.
They are two separate things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 08:31:34 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 08:18:06 pm
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, HarvesteR posted a Mercator-esque projection of the Kerbal planet's surface.  Specifically the map skin wrapped onto the globe when viewed from way out in space.

Spoiler: Kerth? (click to show/hide)

He says he just made the heightmap from a random noise generator, and picked a launch location on a coast near the equator.  Any resemblance to terrestrial land masses is pure coincidence.
What about the half of the planet that's entirely water?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 08:37:47 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 08:31:34 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 08:18:06 pm
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, HarvesteR posted a Mercator-esque projection of the Kerbal planet's surface.  Specifically the map skin wrapped onto the globe when viewed from way out in space.

Spoiler: Kerth? (click to show/hide)

He says he just made the heightmap from a random noise generator, and picked a launch location on a coast near the equator.  Any resemblance to terrestrial land masses is pure coincidence.
What about the half of the planet that's entirely water?
That's what Mercator projections do.
Look at the Pacific Ocean on our own maps.
In other news...
0.8.3 RC2 (http://mod.gib.me/kerbal/temp/KSP_win_0_8_3_rc2.zip)
Quote
===================================== v0.8.3 RC2 =================================================

New:
* Added key to lock staging, to prevent accidental jettisoning (remember to set it off later). Set to Alt+L

Bug Fixes:
* Fixed A TON of bugs with the symmetry and ship construction in general. Game is stable again.
* Fixed a bug where parts would lose staging info and revert to default when returning from flight to the VAB. (the staging reset bug)
* Fixed a glitch introduced in 0.8.3 RC1 that allowed parts to be attached to frozen parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 13, 2011, 08:42:13 pm
How do you guys stop ships from just slowly tipping over and then spinning out.  I've tried to pack on the SaS but it seems with any largeish rocket, it always ends up tipping over in flight, makes getting to orbit damn near impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:48:47 pm
Is there a way to see your horizontal velocity in flight? I don't see anything  but I'm probably missing it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 13, 2011, 08:50:37 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:48:47 pm
Is there a way to see your horizontal velocity in flight? I don't see anything  but I'm probably missing it.
There's one speed meter, and one velocity meter. The speed is obvious, and the globe has two yellow markers on it that show velocity. Go though the tutorial again, it does a fair job of explaining the velocity meter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 13, 2011, 08:51:24 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 08:48:47 pm
Is there a way to see your horizontal velocity in flight? I don't see anything  but I'm probably missing it.
That velocity readout above the gyroscope is your total vector in the direction of the green arrow on said gyroscope.  There's no measure of specific horizontal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 13, 2011, 08:55:59 pm
Quote from: kilakan on July 13, 2011, 08:42:13 pm
How do you guys stop ships from just slowly tipping over and then spinning out.  I've tried to pack on the SaS but it seems with any largeish rocket, it always ends up tipping over in flight, makes getting to orbit damn near impossible.

SRBs need more SASs, especially the large custom ones, and the LRBs generally don't need many but it still help to have some especially with a large rocket or several liquid thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 13, 2011, 09:05:57 pm
so where do you put SAS's to best use them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 09:07:28 pm
Quote from: kilakan on July 13, 2011, 09:05:57 pm
so where do you put SAS's to best use them?

I don't think that it matters, I usually put mine in the first stage, with the last engine to be decoupled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: puke on July 13, 2011, 09:10:51 pm
they exert a force, so they have more leverage and are more effective if you place them near the edges instead of near the center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 09:11:23 pm
Quote from: puke on July 13, 2011, 09:10:51 pm
they exert a force, so they have more leverage and are more effective if you place them near the edges instead of near the center.

Oops, way off on that one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 09:13:06 pm
I attach them to the SRBS. Once those burn out, the extra SAS are basically just dead weight, so they get jettisoned along with the boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 13, 2011, 09:19:31 pm
Quote from: Impending Doom on July 13, 2011, 09:13:06 pm
I attach them to the SRBS. Once those burn out, the extra SAS are basically just dead weight, so they get jettisoned along with the boosters.

As experimentation has seemed to prove, on a three fuel tank rocket, an SAS accounts for a loss of 0.4 m/s^2 acceleration. So yes, keeping SAS on when you don't need them is a good way of lowering your effective range.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 13, 2011, 09:20:33 pm
I always start my constructions with one as the first item after the radial decoupler I start with on my rocket. It has never failed to keep my crew safe unless the rest of the rocket is inherently unstable. Even then, though, it's kept my command module the half-inch away from the exploding rocket to increase survival odds by at least 10%. Unlike most people, I try to keep my boys alive. Sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2011, 09:44:00 pm
That feel when you have an orbit with a periapsis of 36km and no fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 13, 2011, 09:57:48 pm
That's nothing compared to having no orbit, no fuel, and realizing you forgot to add a parachute. : ( Happened my first real attempt at orbiting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Reasonableman on July 13, 2011, 11:00:52 pm
Aww durn. Bay 12 is always ahead of the curve. I was so excited to be bringing this new, fun game to you guys.

Jeez are you ever better at it than I am.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 13, 2011, 11:28:17 pm
Quote from: Reasonableman on July 13, 2011, 11:00:52 pm
Aww durn. Bay 12 is always ahead of the curve. I was so excited to be bringing this new, fun game to you guys.

Jeez are you ever better at it than I am.

When I saw this on bay12, I nearly died. Rockets :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 13, 2011, 11:29:13 pm
0.8.4 has been released, it's just bugfixes though (as was 0.8.3 in case you missed it.). Their site seems down for me so I'm posting the mediafire link
http://www.mediafire.com/?9dz3sdjwd288w23 (http://www.mediafire.com/?9dz3sdjwd288w23)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 11:33:17 pm
I think there is a bug in 0.8.3 where once you get past 10000km you don't slow down. That might have been intended. Someone might want to check but there might be a problem with balance too. Right now I'm at nearly 20000 km traveling at 18341.6 m/s. I was at 36000 something km before but I changed to one screen to watch a movie and it froze.  :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 14, 2011, 01:19:04 am
Testing with escape rockets shows kerbals can survive forces in excess of 100g. They may yet be capable of interstellar space travel.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 01:52:26 am
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 11:33:17 pm
I think there is a bug in 0.8.3 where once you get past 10000km you don't slow down. That might have been intended. Someone might want to check but there might be a problem with balance too. Right now I'm at nearly 20000 km traveling at 18341.6 m/s. I was at 36000 something km before but I changed to one screen to watch a movie and it froze.  :'(
That sounds intentional to me. There has to be some point at which you escape the kearth's gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 01:55:10 am
I dunno. Considering that there's need to orbit above that altitude...

But anyway, are you sure you weren't just being confused by being out of air resistance? Last I checked, while gravity has little effect at that altitude, it's still there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 14, 2011, 03:19:24 am
I figured out artificial gravity, pretty useful on thoose very high orbits/escapes. Put your ship in a vertical(relative to the ship) roation as in - / | \ - / | no as in - - - -, use SAS's to drecrease the G force to something comfortable within the green marking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 14, 2011, 03:24:07 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 01:52:26 am
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 11:33:17 pm
I think there is a bug in 0.8.3 where once you get past 10000km you don't slow down. That might have been intended. Someone might want to check but there might be a problem with balance too. Right now I'm at nearly 20000 km traveling at 18341.6 m/s. I was at 36000 something km before but I changed to one screen to watch a movie and it froze.  :'(
That sounds intentional to me. There has to be some point at which you escape the kearth's gravity.

There's no such thing as escaping gravity (at least not in a system with only one bodily object). Gravity's pretty much the only force with no upper limit on it's distance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 03:36:39 am
Quote from: RF on July 14, 2011, 03:24:07 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 01:52:26 am
Quote from: rutsber on July 13, 2011, 11:33:17 pm
I think there is a bug in 0.8.3 where once you get past 10000km you don't slow down. That might have been intended. Someone might want to check but there might be a problem with balance too. Right now I'm at nearly 20000 km traveling at 18341.6 m/s. I was at 36000 something km before but I changed to one screen to watch a movie and it froze.  :'(
That sounds intentional to me. There has to be some point at which you escape the kearth's gravity.

There's no such thing as escaping gravity (at least not in a system with only one bodily object). Gravity's pretty much the only force with no upper limit on it's distance.
Yeah, but that's only because there's only one celestial body currently coded into the game. Seems like an abstraction to me.
Quote from: DrPoo on July 14, 2011, 03:19:24 am
I figured out artificial gravity, pretty useful on thoose very high orbits/escapes. Put your ship in a vertical(relative to the ship) roation as in - / | \ - / | no as in - - - -, use SAS's to drecrease the G force to something comfortable within the green marking.
Personally I find that the way to create the most gforce is to stabilize the rocket, and then spin horizontally with SAS off. Managed to get some 70 g's before it became apparent that kerbals are immune to gforce.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 03:45:28 am
You're forgetting magnetism, RF. Gravity is pretty much the weakest force in existence.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RF on July 14, 2011, 04:04:32 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 03:45:28 am
You're forgetting magnetism, RF. Gravity is pretty much the weakest force in existence.

Weakest, sure, but doesn't magnetism have a limitting distance on how far it can act? Gravity does not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 04:05:14 am
Holy awesome.
Playing when I get my good PC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: beorn080 on July 14, 2011, 04:16:02 am
Quote from: RF on July 14, 2011, 04:04:32 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 03:45:28 am
You're forgetting magnetism, RF. Gravity is pretty much the weakest force in existence.

Weakest, sure, but doesn't magnetism have a limitting distance on how far it can act? Gravity does not.
Yes and no. Magnetism drops off at a far faster rate, but, in theory, it never hits zero. Gravity drops off slower, but again, after a certain distance, it won't be noticeable either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 14, 2011, 04:45:17 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 13, 2011, 05:50:31 pm
I just tried a rocket based on Sirian's:

Spoiler: The Wobblebottle (click to show/hide)

The capsule-escape rocket is integral to the design.  Go ahead, try it and see why.

The problem with this design is that the 3-to-1 adapters are very weakly attached to other 3-to-1, this is why i put the three decouplers between the first 3-1 and the three others. It fixes the wobbling. I thought about using the unofficial 9-to-1, but for some reason i can't attach liquid fuel tanks directly under it, it needs something in between like an SAS or a decoupler, for each of the 9 tanks.

Oh also, i almost never use SASs anymore, i found it much easier to steer the rocket myself. The trick is to watch the sphere while you do it, instead of watching the rocket. It's a bit hard to be precise, since i don't have a joystick, but it's feasible, except if you pack too many SRBs or if the design is imbalanced.

Also, i NEVER use the long SRB with "KSP" written on it. It's just too unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 14, 2011, 04:47:00 am
I just had to do this:


(http://i.imgur.com/GF1No.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Metalax on July 14, 2011, 05:04:01 am
Quote from: beorn080 on July 14, 2011, 04:16:02 am
Quote from: RF on July 14, 2011, 04:04:32 am
Quote from: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 03:45:28 am
You're forgetting magnetism, RF. Gravity is pretty much the weakest force in existence.

Weakest, sure, but doesn't magnetism have a limitting distance on how far it can act? Gravity does not.
Yes and no. Magnetism drops off at a far faster rate, but, in theory, it never hits zero. Gravity drops off slower, but again, after a certain distance, it won't be noticeable either.

Actually electromagnetism drops off at the same rate as gravity, they are both inverse square laws. The difference is that electromagnetism is both an attractive and repulsive force and as such tends to cancel itself out over long distances, while gravity is always an attractive force and as such can act over long distances even if it is the weakest force.

Also the term escaping from a gravity well doesn't mean that you reach a point at which it has no effect on you, rather it means that you have reached a velocity at which gravity will be unable to slow you to rest and start pulling you back in less than an infinite time span.

Quote from: Xinvoker on July 14, 2011, 04:47:00 am
I just had to do this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Heh  ;D, pity we have already had the last shuttle launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 14, 2011, 07:28:29 am
Sooo, i tested the orange sphere liquid fuel tank, and with only this and of course a small liquid fuel reactor to go with it, i was able to reach escape velocity.

My previous experimentations with orbits led me to consider a different trajectory than the obvious "go straight up", so this time i went straight up at slow speeds (under 500m/s) until i left the atmosphere (above 60km i believe), and then i accelerated to ~3000m/s but with a 45° pitch, then cut the engines with about half the fuel tank left, waited a bit until i was high enough, and then accelerated at 45° again for some time, until i reached ~6000m/s, and then again, waited, and i believe i was above 10 000 km when i repeated the maneuver a third time with the last of my fuel, which gave me almost 10 000m/s speed.

I also noticed a strange bug while i was up there : the higher you go, the more your actions generate Gs. I guess it has been incorrectly tied to the value of gravity or something. I was able to get above 30 000 G just spinning the rocket around :D

I also noticed that at some point the rocket just generates random Gs (up to 15G and above), i think this may be because the kerbian brothers move in the capsule and generate tiny movements, although it sounds weird. (the rocket itself had some sort of slow random spin over time, from a rest position).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see my speed didnt go down much after the last thrust, it actually took about 30mins to go down from 9146.8 to 9146.7, and as long to reach 9146.6, so i think this is an escape velocity. I think what i did (the 45° thrust thing) is a form of slingshot trajectory, though i guess i could have optimized it by waiting a bit more after the first 45° thust, until i reached the apogee of my temporary orbit.

Edit : after a failed orbit attempt with a minimalistic rocket, i noticed that the atmosphere stops around 35km, not 60km. Could be useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 07:40:31 am
Quote from: Sirian on July 14, 2011, 07:28:29 am
Skill
Did you turn back around towards the planet and try crashing into it at massive speeds?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 14, 2011, 07:56:49 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 07:40:31 am
Did you turn back around towards the planet and try crashing into it at massive speeds?

Aha no, i had no fuel left anyway ^^

But i did it with a different rocket yesterday, and it's actually disappointing, because the atmosphere just slows you down to ~300m/s when you're close enough to the ground, so you never really crash at high speeds. Maybe the creator should consider simulating re-entry heating :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 07:59:50 am
My first rocket flew up and out of the stratosphere perfectly.
I quickly said fuck that, threw on some solid fuel thrusters, and had some fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 14, 2011, 08:23:52 am
I believe that's why I don't work at NASA.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Kerbalfail.jpg)

Although I could probably get employed as a pilot...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KerWin1.jpg)

But maybe not...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KerFail2.jpg)

Two out of three good enough?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KerWin2.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 14, 2011, 09:10:19 am
ehh, how do you land your ship? I though stuff just exploded if it hit the ground. I had a SAS connected to my parachuted lifepod and it exploded.
Also, is there a way to speed to game up? I've been waiting for 30 min or so for my pod to slow down to see the max height it got.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 14, 2011, 09:19:43 am
No need for a parachute, just set SAS to keep you vertical, and do some very fine throttle control. Things don't explode if they hit the ground slow enough. Somewhere around 10m/s is safe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 14, 2011, 10:22:08 am
I just tested if a parachute slows your ship down, ship used was just the pod with a booster engine with and without  parachute.
With parachute: 5530 meters (tried it twice)
Without parachute: the engine overheats explodes...

So the parachute has an air conditioning system :P or the shape just help you be cool or something
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: dehimos on July 14, 2011, 10:29:35 am
My record is 8914 m.

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii107/dehimos/KSP2011-07-1416-24-52-96.png)


With this:


(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii107/dehimos/KSP2011-07-1416-26-51-96.png)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: chaoticag on July 14, 2011, 10:31:14 am
Quote from: Dutchling on July 14, 2011, 10:22:08 am
I just tested if a parachute slows your ship down, ship used was just the pod with a booster engine with and without  parachute.
With parachute: 5530 meters (tried it twice)
Without parachute: the engine overheats explodes...

So the parachute has an air conditioning system :P or the shape just help you be cool or something
Let me geek out a bit here, but the faster you go, the more atmospheric friction thhere is, so at a certain point, going really fast makes you burn up. Slowing that speed down reduces the total temperature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 11:22:07 am
(http://img.ie/bb901.jpg)

Still going.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 14, 2011, 11:24:03 am
how!?!?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 11:35:58 am
with a kickass ship.

Spoiler: I started falling at 100 km. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Orbit Achieved. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on July 14, 2011, 12:00:35 pm
Speaking of that, it would be nice if you could manually add stages to rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 12:01:46 pm
Spoiler: God, this is getting boring. But I must see how high this goes. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: chaoticag on July 14, 2011, 12:03:07 pm
Quote from: OzyTheSage on July 14, 2011, 12:00:35 pm
Speaking of that, it would be nice if you could manually add stages to rockets.
Possible, I think. The tutorial mentioned something like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 12:04:58 pm
you can manually assign which rocket is part of which stage, but I don't think you can add new stages yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: chaoticag on July 14, 2011, 12:07:02 pm
If you added a couple of dummy decouplers though, it ought to be possible to "make" stages with a bit of creativity. In theory, anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 14, 2011, 12:29:34 pm
Quote from: chaoticag on July 14, 2011, 12:07:02 pm
If you added a couple of dummy decouplers though, it ought to be possible to "make" stages with a bit of creativity. In theory, anyway.

If you add a decoupler, drag an old part to the new stage, then delete the decoupler, the new stage remains. cheers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 14, 2011, 12:38:47 pm
I never manage to get orbit, just keep going and going. Maybe I go too fast? I need to re-take the tutorial because I completely forgot what the little markers on the compass mean.

Game is a lot of fun. Looking forward to more content.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 14, 2011, 12:49:58 pm
Green markers show the direction you're going. The one with nothing inside is the direction you're traveling, the one with the X-thing is the opposite. The markers allow for you to make prograde and retrograde burns to either increase or decrease your orbit.
The purple markers show you where the launch center is, and aren't all that useful unless you use it to calculate how many orbits you make or like to land as close to the space center as possible when you deorbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 12:54:28 pm
basically, in order to orbit, you can't just go straight up, you need to fly horisontally.

also, here's my first ship to reach orbit with:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 14, 2011, 12:56:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 14, 2011, 01:00:13 pm
Anyone else having problems with radial decouplers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 01:04:16 pm
Define problems? If you mean them bending and breaking, I don't think that's getting "fixed" any time soon. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 14, 2011, 01:06:13 pm
Quote from: Japa on July 14, 2011, 12:54:28 pm
basically, in order to orbit, you can't just go straight up, you need to fly horisontally.

also, here's my first ship to reach orbit with:



I got that part. But I end up going 3500m/s and just getting further and further away from the planet. maybe at some point I'd come back, but I get too bored and head back to the VAB to create a fireworks show. I think the green circle will help me. I always point myself directly at the horizon, I probably need to point myself below that so my ship settles more quickly somewhere between straight up and straight over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 14, 2011, 01:12:26 pm
Little tip for anyone who uses parachutes as an air-brake in atmospheric flights: the parachute releases based on velocity, not on impact with the ground. Hit near-zero and bye bye chute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Eagleon on July 14, 2011, 01:23:48 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 01:04:16 pm
Define problems? If you mean them bending and breaking, I don't think that's getting "fixed" any time soon. :P
Actually,
Quote
Hi,

First of all congrats on the parts! they're awesome!

I want to tell you all about what I'm planning to once and for all control the wobbliness of parts, in the best way possible.

My plan is to create a new type of part, called Strut Connector.

This part is different from the others so far, because it is a compound part. That is, once you place it (it will attach to the surface), you immediately get a second part to attach. That is Connector B.

So, once connectors A and B are in place, a truss will be created between them, allowing you to essentially strap any loose parts of your rocket.

This part also will detect any controlled separations, and jettison the truss when that happens. If the stage breaks off in an uncontrolled manner, they won't separate.

This could be in as soon as the update after this one.

Also, Fairings are planned as an official feature as well. They're a special set of parts, with a new set of attachment options, that will enable pacing them onto exposed parts like liquid engines. They can even be activated to break apart when it's time to expose whatever's inside it.

Cheers
From http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.0 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.0), last post first page. Hopefully goes in soon, this kills more of my rockets *shakefist*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 14, 2011, 01:25:37 pm
I've been trying to get to orbit with enough fuel to deorbit and decouple the command module with the smallest possible rocket.

Getting to orbit with the smallest rocket is actually pretty easy if you don't plan to deorbit and parachute with just the module. A command module, 3 fuel tanks and a LFR can do it easy enough, but i'm trying to do it with a parachute and decoupler added and it's proving to be very difficult, if not impossible. I've tried not dropping my nose untill exiting the atmosphere, dropping my nose at varying heights and amounts. The atmosphere is very thick, even at the outer most edge so it's difficult to get enough horizontal speed with the allotted fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 14, 2011, 01:26:25 pm
Great news... Now I can make my super starfish rocket stop flapping its arms.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 02:48:23 pm
Well, I've achieved an apparently elliptical orbit (don't know whether I can even get down) and seen the dark side of Kerbal! The stars are quite visible.
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5599/12141986.png)

And... the BLACK HOLE! or just bad UV mapping
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6008/17585107.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 02:49:05 pm
Damnit, I need help getting to orbit!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 02:56:19 pm
It's not easy. In fact I seem to have passed the 700 km mark because I kept accelerating to account for decay when I was lower. Even having used the last little bit of fuel to thrust towards the planet. I think the Kermans have been lost to space forever. Playing minecraft for a while to see if they fall down.

Edit: Passed the thousand kilometer mark, units of altimeter changed to kilometers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 14, 2011, 03:12:20 pm
They might come down eventually, but I'm sure you're not willing to wait for like ten months to do it.

I had the same thing happen, except even worse since the poor guys bounced between 140 km and 37 km. Only 2 km away from the parachute taking effect and saving them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 03:23:00 pm
I'd activate the parachute and leave it, like, overnight. Except I'm worried that the parachute will vanish when it reaches the end of its parabola.

Edit: Topped out at 1540K. Parachute activated. Taking shower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 14, 2011, 04:13:28 pm
Quick guide to getting into orbit:

Take a command module, add 3 fuel tanks, a LFR and nothing else. Not even SAS.

Takeoff at full thrust and keep your rocket pointed perfectly vertical. This will need alot of small adjustments without a SAS so keep your eye on the ball thingy. I forget what it's called.

At 25,000m pitch your nose all the way down to 0 degrees at the horizon line on the ball and hold it steady. This can be in any direction, I prefer to go east because i'm used to it in orbiter where going with the direction of the earths rotation help you achieve orbit. I don't think Kerbal rotates, but it would be a good feature.

Anyways When you reach 40,000m cut your engines. Now, keep your eye on the green/yellowish direction indicator circle on the ball. When that reaches 5 degrees, or just above the horizon line go full thrust and keep directed at the center of that circle untill you're around 2,300m/s and then cut engines. Congratulations, you just got into orbit with the smallest possible rocket. You should have enough fuel left over to de-orbit but you'll crash and die. de-orbit worthy spacecrafts need a bit more power.

Theres better ways to get into orbit then pitching your nose right from 90 to 0 but it's simple. With this I got an apoapsis of 64,000m and a periapsis of 42,000m but yours will probably vary.

If you drop your nose to 0 at 20,000m and have good control of your thrust and pitch you can achieve a near circular orbit at the very edge of space. (space beginning somewhere around 34,500m)


I've been doing some experimenting with thrust levels trying to optimize fuel consumption. These used a command module, 1 or 2 SAS modules and a LFR with 1 fuel tank.

1 SAS at 50% thrust: 28,166m in 2:46, top speed 415.2m/s

(This was the minimum thrust needed to get liftoff. For the 50% test I moved it down just after liftoff)
1 SAS at 62% thrust: 28,267m in 2:34, top speed 438.9m/s

1 SAS at 62% thrust, moved to 52% at half fuel: 28,607m in 2:37, top speed 426.3m/s

1 SAS at 75% thrust: 27,293m in 2:20, top speed: 455.9m/s

1 SAS at 100% thrust: 20,834m in 1:40, top speed: 456m/s



2 SAS at 62% thrust: 19,029m in 2:18, top speed 306.6m/s

2 SAS at 75% thrust: 19,116m in 2:08, top speed 327.8m/s

(This was also the minimum thrust needed to get liftoff, same deal as the other)
2 SAS at 75% thrust, moved to 65% at half fuel: 19,295m in 2:11, top speed 316m/s

2 SAS at 100% thrust: 16,275m in 1:32, top speed 364.3m/s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 04:21:39 pm
I've gone back towards the planet, but it looks like I'm going to miss it again. These guys look like they're caught in eternal orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
Okay, haven't played the game. Considered it until I saw it's a bit unoptimized. Not sure if I wanna put that much stress on my computer. I might stick it on an older one if they can meet the requirements though.

But, err. If this really has proper Orbital mechanics then...
Quote from: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 04:21:39 pm
I've gone back towards the planet, but it looks like I'm going to miss it again. These guys look like they're caught in eternal orbit.
That's probably the worst way to get back into the atmosphere. A de-orbit burn is usually performed "Retrograde" for maximum fuel efficiency. Basically you need to fire the engines in the exact opposite way from the way you're travelling. That will slow you down so that you gently graze the atmosphere, where the air should then slow you anyway.
You'll probably hit the atmosphere too fast to actually re-enter on the first try, but at least you should be using less fuel to get back this way.
Oh, another big fuel saving tip. Watch your altimeter, after a couple of times around you should know roughly the highest point of your orbit (Aka: Apoapsis.). If you perform your de-orbit burn then, you will hit the atmosphere faster, but it will take much less fuel to get back into the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
Okay, haven't played the game. Considered it until I saw it's a bit unoptimized. Not sure if I wanna put that much stress on my computer. I might stick it on an older one if they can meet the requirements though.

But, err. If this really has proper Orbital mechanics then...

Well, gravity doesn't seem to be implemented properly. You can tell if you detach some heavier rockets from you, and don't turn yours back on, or if you detach light things from you and keep your main rocket really heavy. Heavy things are being affected by gravity more than light things, which isn't how gravity actually works in real life (In real life it depends only on your distance and the mass of the objects exerting their gravity on you - your own mass doesn't matter).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 08:05:32 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
Okay, haven't played the game. Considered it until I saw it's a bit unoptimized. Not sure if I wanna put that much stress on my computer. I might stick it on an older one if they can meet the requirements though.

But, err. If this really has proper Orbital mechanics then...

Well, gravity doesn't seem to be implemented properly. You can tell if you detach some heavier rockets from you, and don't turn yours back on, or if you detach light things from you and keep your main rocket really heavy. Heavy things are being affected by gravity more than light things, which isn't how gravity actually works in real life (In real life it depends only on your distance and the mass of the objects exerting their gravity on you).

I think that's because they have more drag (items DO have a drag coefficient, I've checked).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:42:07 pm
*attempts to register on the KSP forum*
*clicks the OpenID option to try it out*
[20 minutes later]
Well, OpenID's webpage claims that I have an OpenID already through Google. However, OpenID isn't telling me what URL to use to log in with for it. It links to my Google+ profile page and to google.com (why would that work). The KSP forum registration rejects my google+ profile page, of course, and I have a feeling that this isn't as secure as OpenID is claiming.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 08:50:54 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 08:05:32 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
Okay, haven't played the game. Considered it until I saw it's a bit unoptimized. Not sure if I wanna put that much stress on my computer. I might stick it on an older one if they can meet the requirements though.

But, err. If this really has proper Orbital mechanics then...

Well, gravity doesn't seem to be implemented properly. You can tell if you detach some heavier rockets from you, and don't turn yours back on, or if you detach light things from you and keep your main rocket really heavy. Heavy things are being affected by gravity more than light things, which isn't how gravity actually works in real life (In real life it depends only on your distance and the mass of the objects exerting their gravity on you).

I think that's because they have more drag (items DO have a drag coefficient, I've checked).


Drag is definitely the problem here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 08:56:53 pm
Quote from: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 02:49:05 pm
Damnit, I need help getting to orbit!
Guide to orbit:
2 Stage rocket, the first stage needs to be powerful enough to get you to around 40,000m. Conserve fuel, and once you've reached 40,000 meters detach and don't start moving just yet.
The second stage should be the classic 3 fuel tank and 1 engine. Position the rocket horizontally, and then throttle to the max until you've reached ~2300 m/s. Cut the engine, and you should still have a tank of fuel left. Keep an eye on the vertical speed meter, trying to keep the pointer at the 0 for as long as you have your engine still on to make the orbit more circular.
And voila, you're now in orbit. If you want to deorbit wait until you get the closest to the planet as your orbit goes and then rev up those engines towards the ground.

Quote from: Dsarker on July 14, 2011, 08:50:54 pm
Quote from: Sensei on July 14, 2011, 08:05:32 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
Okay, haven't played the game. Considered it until I saw it's a bit unoptimized. Not sure if I wanna put that much stress on my computer. I might stick it on an older one if they can meet the requirements though.

But, err. If this really has proper Orbital mechanics then...

Well, gravity doesn't seem to be implemented properly. You can tell if you detach some heavier rockets from you, and don't turn yours back on, or if you detach light things from you and keep your main rocket really heavy. Heavy things are being affected by gravity more than light things, which isn't how gravity actually works in real life (In real life it depends only on your distance and the mass of the objects exerting their gravity on you).

I think that's because they have more drag (items DO have a drag coefficient, I've checked).


Drag is definitely the problem here.
Heavy things are not at all affected more by gravity than light things, it's just that it takes more force to propel them than their light counterparts. For instance, when you detach your command capsule from the rest of your rocket, you'll be floating at pretty much the same level as the rocket for a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2011, 09:08:08 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 14, 2011, 08:42:07 pm
*attempts to register on the KSP forum*
*clicks the OpenID option to try it out*
[20 minutes later]
Well, OpenID's webpage claims that I have an OpenID already through Google. However, OpenID isn't telling me what URL to use to log in with for it. It links to my Google+ profile page and to google.com (why would that work). The KSP forum registration rejects my google+ profile page, of course, and I have a feeling that this isn't as secure as OpenID is claiming.

to use openid with your google account, you just have to be logged into your google account. it will use your google cookies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 14, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
Just a heads up, don't put your computer to sleep while this is running. That or don't leave it running for 7 hours unattended. I'll have to let it run overnight to achieve my goal. Here is my last screenshot before I left.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 14, 2011, 09:35:31 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 14, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
Just a heads up, don't put your computer to sleep while this is running. That or don't leave it running for 7 hours unattended. I'll have to let it run overnight to achieve my goal. Here is my last screenshot before I left.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jeb: "Let's colonize the sun!"
Bill&Bob: "DAAAAAAAAAH!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 14, 2011, 09:49:24 pm
Quote from: Ultimuh on July 14, 2011, 09:35:31 pm
Jeb: "<pretty much anything>"
Bill&Bob: "DAAAAAAAAAH!"
Spoiler: Jeb: (click to show/hide)
Fix'd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 14, 2011, 10:03:36 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on July 14, 2011, 07:23:02 pm
You'll probably hit the atmosphere too fast to actually re-enter on the first try, but at least you should be using less fuel to get back this way.
Oh, another big fuel saving tip. Watch your altimeter, after a couple of times around you should know roughly the highest point of your orbit (Aka: Apoapsis.). If you perform your de-orbit burn then, you will hit the atmosphere faster, but it will take much less fuel to get back into the atmosphere.

The mechanics arent as realistic as orbiter so there'll be no atmosphere butt-skipping. There's air resistance but no actual lift so you just slow right down. Well, there's no objects capable of achieving lift atm so I don't know if that's entirely true.

Hehe.. I remember the first time I tried to deorbit in orbiter. I must have butt-skipped my way through a couple whole orbits.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 10:06:37 pm
I once had everyone smiling like bloody hell while they were plummeting to there doom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 14, 2011, 10:08:23 pm
Quote from: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 10:06:37 pm
I once had everyone smiling like bloody hell while they were plummeting to there doom.

I guess they accepted their inevitable doom.
Laughing at death right in his/her face.

Or they went insane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 14, 2011, 10:19:41 pm
They're already insane. Jeb's just the most out of the three of them. The only time I've ever seen all three smile is when they're plummeting toward earth from a mission gone wrong, and the only thing that fazes Jeb is multiple explosions near the cockpit. I think they might all be undergoing medical experimentation along with our rocket experiments.

Whatever that shit is, though, I want some.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on July 14, 2011, 10:50:59 pm
I guarantee you their atmosphere control is actually hooked up to a bong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 14, 2011, 10:52:29 pm
Hell, the person thats supposed to be overseeing this mission is either high or dead. Probably both.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Bremen on July 14, 2011, 11:32:25 pm
For anyone having trouble getting into orbit, there's a great tutorial on Youtube. He takes it from ship design to orbit while explaining what he's doing with each step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 11:44:18 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 14, 2011, 11:32:25 pm
For anyone having trouble getting into orbit, there's a great tutorial on Youtube. He takes it from ship design to orbit while explaining what he's doing with each step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4)
How'd he do that 6 at once srb thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 14, 2011, 11:47:57 pm
Version 0.8.4 is out but it seems really laggy. I'll put the mediafire link below for anyone who can't get on.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9dz3sdjwd288w23 (http://www.mediafire.com/?9dz3sdjwd288w23)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 14, 2011, 11:49:38 pm
Quote from: rutsber on July 14, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
Just a heads up, don't put your computer to sleep while this is running. That or don't leave it running for 7 hours unattended. I'll have to let it run overnight to achieve my goal. Here is my last screenshot before I left.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lol nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 12:00:03 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 11:44:18 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 14, 2011, 11:32:25 pm
For anyone having trouble getting into orbit, there's a great tutorial on Youtube. He takes it from ship design to orbit while explaining what he's doing with each step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4)
How'd he do that 6 at once srb thing?
That is the symmetry thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 15, 2011, 12:24:40 am
Quote from: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 12:00:03 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 11:44:18 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 14, 2011, 11:32:25 pm
For anyone having trouble getting into orbit, there's a great tutorial on Youtube. He takes it from ship design to orbit while explaining what he's doing with each step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4)
How'd he do that 6 at once srb thing?
That is the symmetry thing.
Yeah, but what's the command?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 12:25:49 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 15, 2011, 12:24:40 am
Quote from: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 12:00:03 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 14, 2011, 11:44:18 pm
Quote from: Bremen on July 14, 2011, 11:32:25 pm
For anyone having trouble getting into orbit, there's a great tutorial on Youtube. He takes it from ship design to orbit while explaining what he's doing with each step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4)
How'd he do that 6 at once srb thing?
That is the symmetry thing.
Yeah, but what's the command?
click the circle thing at the top.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 15, 2011, 12:37:21 am
Yep, it has symmetry in 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8. Click through until it shows the number of slices you want. Tiny dot means no symmetry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Metalax on July 15, 2011, 05:07:17 am
Been playing around with this and found one annoying thing, in that deployed parachutes on other capsules will not fully open unless they are attached to the main capsule when it hits 500m.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 15, 2011, 05:50:12 am
I got to 7km/s . What is more, I was burning full throttle all the way to 2600K. Took me only 7.5 minutes to get there! Talk about Interplanetary Express! :D

(Default parts only)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 15, 2011, 05:53:21 am
I think the KSP forums are down.

EDIT: Just checked the whole site is down. The devs said it was going to be down for a few hours to switch servers though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 15, 2011, 05:53:43 am
I managed my best orbit yet. Took me 5 minutes to get into orbit, and my orbit is 37km-60km. I've had 5/4 a tank of fuel left to deorbit with or maybe try an engine landing.
Landed on the launch pad with most of my rocket intact, mission is a great success.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 15, 2011, 09:18:03 am
Spoiler: It's purdy. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 15, 2011, 09:47:24 am
Finally got a stable orbit! Apogee is at 69,792M with a speed of 2274.5, Perigee 51,559M with a speed of 2344 m/s. Left it for 17 hours, it was stable except the Apogee shifted up. Ground distance at 146381000
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on July 15, 2011, 10:02:18 am
... 17 HOURS?

You should probably post that on the KSP forums. they'll go crazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 10:05:19 am
I wonder how long it will be before we get a moon or something to crash into fly to. And then we'll have people trying to figure out how to make a ship that can land safely on the moon, take off, and make it back to Kearth. And/or figuring out the lagrange points and trying to somehow fly into one of those with our current  very lacking HUD.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 15, 2011, 10:12:16 am
Quote from: inteuniso on July 15, 2011, 10:02:18 am
... 17 HOURS?

You should probably post that on the KSP forums. they'll go crazy.

It wasn't the best orbit. It actually got increasingly eccentric as time went on, I suspect it might have dipped into the atmosphere if left for another day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Heron TSG on July 15, 2011, 10:51:44 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 10:05:19 am
I wonder how long it will be before we get a moon or something to crash into fly to. And then we'll have people trying to figure out how to make a ship that can land safely on the moon, take off, and make it back to Kearth. And/or figuring out the lagrange points and trying to somehow fly into one of those with our current  very lacking HUD.
I've been practicing already by going out to increasing distances and trying to get back. So far my record is making it out 2.5 million meters and just barely having enough thrust to start falling back home, at which time I let gravity pull me in, saving one liquid booster for a retro rocket. We came in a bit too hot, though, and I had to eject and parachute separately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Charmander on July 15, 2011, 11:30:47 am
My best run so far was half an hour, before misjudging the land height and crashing spectacularly into the dark side of Kerbal. Half-orbit. A bit slow on the speed, but... still trying.

Venture on, brave Kerbalnauts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 11:45:05 am
Cool a new version! These guys are really working their asses off. I'm glad this game has found such interest as it has, as a reward to their efforts.

*Oh its not released yet  :'(

Still.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 11:49:36 am
The release is a big issue. Some of us are rabidly anti-steam, and some of them are rabidly pro-steam. Fortunately, the former is a wee bit larger.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 11:52:07 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 11:49:36 am
The release is a big issue. Some of us are rabidly anti-steam, and some of them are rabidly pro-steam. Fortunately, the former is a wee bit larger.
Where did it say anything about steam here?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 15, 2011, 12:05:02 pm
I think the community isn't as polar as Breadbocks thinks, but it is a point of contention with some people.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 15, 2011, 12:14:25 pm
I myself am not in particular for or against steam.
But for a game like this, they should try going for the same as Notch did with Minecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 12:27:30 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 11:52:07 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 11:49:36 am
The release is a big issue. Some of us are rabidly anti-steam, and some of them are rabidly pro-steam. Fortunately, the former is a wee bit larger.
Where did it say anything about steam here?
I was talking about how deadmeat mentioned "*It's not released yet".

And yeah, it isn't completely polarized, but I've not seen a single person saying "Eh. I don't care either way. Just shut up and take my money." Well, until Ultimuh posted. >.>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 15, 2011, 12:32:27 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 12:27:30 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 11:52:07 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 11:49:36 am
The release is a big issue. Some of us are rabidly anti-steam, and some of them are rabidly pro-steam. Fortunately, the former is a wee bit larger.
Where did it say anything about steam here?
I was talking about how deadmeat mentioned "*It's not released yet".

And yeah, it isn't completely polarized, but I've not seen a single person saying "Eh. I don't care either way. Just shut up and take my money." Well, until Ultimuh posted. >.>
In this case Just shut up and take my money is exactly my thoughts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 15, 2011, 12:36:26 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 12:27:30 pm

And yeah, it isn't completely polarized, but I've not seen a single person saying "Eh. I don't care either way. Just shut up and take my money." Well, until Ultimuh posted. >.>
Here's your single person, happens to be me  ;)
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=181.msg1735#msg1735 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=181.msg1735#msg1735)

Quote from: Xinvoker
Steam because it's nice to have everything in one place, the auto-updating is cool, and you'll get free publicity to millions just by having it there. Plus many people are so attached to their steam libraries that they won't buy a game if it's not on Steam.

Personally I'd buy it even if the delivery method were a solid booster landing on my roof, nose down. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 15, 2011, 12:42:06 pm
I love this game's bugs.
If you get too far out, half the screen turns into space trees.
If you spend too long ingame, the kerbils' names slide off of their placers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 12:45:23 pm
Steam or not, I don't care. Fun game is fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 01:39:32 pm
Quote from: Barbarossa the Seal God on July 15, 2011, 10:51:44 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 10:05:19 am
I wonder how long it will be before we get a moon or something to crash into fly to. And then we'll have people trying to figure out how to make a ship that can land safely on the moon, take off, and make it back to Kearth. And/or figuring out the lagrange points and trying to somehow fly into one of those with our current  very lacking HUD.
I've been practicing already by going out to increasing distances and trying to get back. So far my record is making it out 2.5 million meters and just barely having enough thrust to start falling back home, at which time I let gravity pull me in, saving one liquid booster for a retro rocket. We came in a bit too hot, though, and I had to eject and parachute separately.

Even the most ridiculous deep-space adventures posted on here have only gone about 1/3 the distance required to get to our moon, so yes, it will be fun  :D

Any moon added the the game probably won't be that far out, but maybe. We'll definately need some kind of time-manipulator first.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on July 15, 2011, 01:47:32 pm
Woo!  I finally figured out how to reliably get to space.  Now I need to figure out how to reliably stay in space.

Also, my most recent rocket just failed in a funny way.  The command module was peacefully parachuting down.  At about 200m, an earlier stage fell, hit the command module, and caused it to explode spectacularly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 15, 2011, 01:52:10 pm
Quote from: Stargrasper on July 15, 2011, 01:47:32 pm
Woo!  I finally figured out how to reliably get to space.  Now I need to figure out how to reliably stay in space.

Also, my most recent rocket just failed in a funny way.  The command module was peacefully parachuting down.  At about 200m, an earlier stage fell, hit the command module, and caused it to explode spectacularly.
Pics or didn't happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 15, 2011, 02:01:49 pm
Just shut up, and take my money IF: We get space stations, and a moon. Then I'm set.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: puke on July 15, 2011, 02:02:41 pm
My best crash was a design that produced a repeatable mid-air collision.  I had a multi-stage design where I could jetison an upper ring of solid fuel boosters while they were still running, and then catch up to them when my lower stage ignited.  it was pretty great.

I had another where I had built too many SFBs in my outer ring, and I thought I could just jetison them before they overheated and exploded instead of going back and redesigning for less thrust.  I was right, but the entire outer ring tipped slightly inwards and converged on my center stage.  big-badda-boom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Pnx on July 15, 2011, 02:10:59 pm
See... I saw all this talk about steam, and all I could think about was a steampunk space program. Someone is going to have to make that mod eventually. Unrealistic physics and all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 15, 2011, 02:14:57 pm
Jettisoning SRBs while they are running is always fun. One of my favorite designs involves a bunch of SRB's connected to a module underneath an SRB. When I fire of the SRB's the module holding the others in place overheats and I create a fireworks show.

I hope they add the moon and time compression. That would be so awesome. I hope they add it before they improve the HUD so landing is a major difficulty. Pro landing job who ever made it back to the space center. That is impressive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:19:54 pm
Quote from: Pnx on July 15, 2011, 02:10:59 pm
See... I saw all this talk about steam, and all I could think about was a steampunk space program. Someone is going to have to make that mod eventually. Unrealistic physics and all.

Actually, rockets wouldn't be that hard to do even with steampunk tech. The main issue would be oxygen supplies for both the crew and the liquid rockets since we couldn't cool oxygen to liquid form until recent refrigeration developments. Otherwise, any computer systems could be replaced with high-quality gear systems and momentum-based sensors to determine acceleration and whatnot. The interface would be even harder to get into, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Pnx on July 15, 2011, 02:27:24 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:19:54 pm
Actually, rockets wouldn't be that hard to do even with steampunk tech. The main issue would be oxygen supplies for both the crew and the liquid rockets since we couldn't cool oxygen to liquid form until recent refrigeration developments. Otherwise, any computer systems could be replaced with high-quality gear systems and momentum-based sensors to determine acceleration and whatnot. The interface would be even harder to get into, though.
Extremely complex interfaces that somehow work extremely well are a staple of steampunk! This must be done, to the steam lab!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:36:48 pm
Almost every steampunk interface I've ever seen involves a bunch of levers and the occasional button. Despite none of these ever being marked except for maybe different colors, the people operating the system somehow seem to magically know what everything does. It looks cool, but one would imagine that the user needs an outrageous amount of training to keep from pulling the "fire" lever instead of the "move forward". I don't think people are going to get that hardcore with steampunk to be willing to learn all that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 15, 2011, 02:38:52 pm
All that steam hate made me create an account at those forums just to make some propaganda for steam  :-X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 15, 2011, 02:39:58 pm
I think usually it's implied that the person operating the machine also designed it. Steampunk generally lacks mass production and consumer-ready products.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:43:32 pm
Are we supposed to combine KSP with the Bureau of Steam Engineering then?

Why does that actually sound kind of interesting?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2011, 02:45:58 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:43:32 pm
Are we supposed to combine KSP with the Bureau of Steam Engineering then?

Why does that actually sound kind of interesting?
Because Steampunk?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 15, 2011, 02:47:38 pm
It would be cool, but it would never work. Gears and fuel would weigh so much you'd never generate enough lift. Steam power is generall used to turn turbines which is a different form of energy than jets/rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:48:50 pm
You imply that steampunk is completely confined to realistic physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 15, 2011, 02:56:55 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 02:48:50 pm
You imply that steampunk is completely confined to realistic physics.

No, I mean you'd really really have to stretch it to the point where it wouldn't even be remotely believeable.

If you wanted to make it as believeable as possible, you could have a "mother ship" blimp that takes you up really really high and has a huge payload of water. Your ship could have a tube connected to the playload so it wouldn't have to carry its fuel directly and then a bank of giant solar panels to boil it and create steam. So you'd have this gear covered rocket off to the side of this blimp slowly... well, gathering steam... until you blow the restraints and it starts to climb like a real rocket. It would have to be slow though, like an old steam engine, at least for a while.

Hmm. Now I really want to make a blimp module...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 15, 2011, 02:58:04 pm
Aaaaand "steampunk" rears its horribly overused and balding head again.  It has its times and places.  Hilarious recreations of Khrushchev-era spaceflight is not one of them.

The Kerbal Space Program is already basically "rocketpunk", to possibly coin a term.  The theme is plenty good as it is, be happy with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 15, 2011, 03:09:50 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 15, 2011, 02:58:04 pm
Aaaaand "steampunk" rears its horribly overused and balding head again.  It has its times and places.  Hilarious recreations of Khrushchev-era spaceflight is not one of them.

The Kerbal Space Program is already basically "rocketpunk", to possibly coin a term.  The theme is plenty good as it is, be happy with it.

I mostly agree, but I still think launching a rocket from a blimp would be awesome.

Steampunk is cool, but you are right, it has no place in a space program.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 03:17:51 pm
Hmm, rockets launching from the upper atmosphere from aircraft. We're going to need a bigger plane.

My new personal best for vertical speed on vanilla KSP, 5727m/s. It was a proof of concept for an even larger version. This one took off with 13 3-tanked LFR, the larger version should have 19 3-tanked LFR's and probably 12 SRB's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 15, 2011, 03:25:35 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 01:39:32 pm

Even the most ridiculous deep-space adventures posted on here have only gone about 1/3 the distance required to get to our moon, so yes, it will be fun  :D

Any moon added the the game probably won't be that far out, but maybe. We'll definately need some kind of time-manipulator first.

But Kerbal's radius is 1/11th the one of the Earth. If Karbal's moon is also 1/11th of our moon, then its distance would be 1/11th of the Earth-Moon distance.
So people have already made it 3 times further than  the Kerbalian moon. If my logic isn't horrible messed up that is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 03:26:53 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 03:17:51 pm
Hmm, rockets launching from the upper atmosphere from aircraft. We're going to need a bigger plane.

Isn't the point of stages being a rocket designed to let another rocket take off from a higher altitude?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 15, 2011, 03:31:54 pm
Am i the only one who cannot use radial decouplers?
I mean, nothing attaches to them, that is quite shit.

Also cant wait till theres planets and the sun is actually a sun so i can burn myself to death crashing into it..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 15, 2011, 03:33:21 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on July 15, 2011, 03:31:54 pm
I mean, nothing attaches to them, that is quite shit.
Only things that would logically attach to them attach to them.
That means solid boosters.
What, you expected to be able to attach an SAS module sideways on the rocket?  Because that would work super well :V

EDIT: That's mainly because you can only radially mount stuff that's allowed to be surface-mounted, and that's only the solid boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 15, 2011, 04:11:20 pm
I leave for a week and 42 pages. wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 04:17:44 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 03:26:53 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 03:17:51 pm
Hmm, rockets launching from the upper atmosphere from aircraft. We're going to need a bigger plane.

Isn't the point of stages being a rocket designed to let another rocket take off from a higher altitude?

Well that would depend on what you're launching. If rockets become more dangerous, exploding from poor engineering and maintenance you could opt for a safer alternative in a plane-launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 04:47:00 pm
Space-planes are the idea that you can fly a plane, and just keep going up, rather than staying at X altitude. They go up to space like a plane, and land like a plane. The Space shuttle is the bastard child of a Space-plane and a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 05:02:08 pm
Actually a better reason to use planes is cost. I doubt spent boosters will be recovered and reused like real ones, a plane you can use over and over and all you spend is fuel.

But really after thinking about it more, rocket carrying planes probably won't happen. You can't control a plane and a rocket you just launched at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Alehkhs on July 15, 2011, 05:10:13 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 05:02:08 pm
Actually a better reason to use planes is cost. I doubt spent boosters will be recovered and reused like real ones, a plane you can use over and over and all you spend is fuel.

But really after thinking about it more, rocket carrying planes probably won't happen. You can't control a plane and a rocket you just launched at the same time.

Actually, HarvesteR has stated that in the future (once we're actually limited to a budget for ship construction), boosters that are parachuted back down to the surface will be able to be reused.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on July 15, 2011, 05:15:42 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 05:02:08 pm
Actually a better reason to use planes is cost. I doubt spent boosters will be recovered and reused like real ones, a plane you can use over and over and all you spend is fuel.

But really after thinking about it more, rocket carrying planes probably won't happen. You can't control a plane and a rocket you just launched at the same time.

No, that's not quite true.  Making something reusable costs a lot of money in terms of maintenance and general durability.  This is why the government is forcing NASA to abandon the shuttle program.  It's potentially less costly to use single-use equipment because it's so crazy much cheaper to produce and maintain.

And we do have rocket carrying planes in the real world.  JATO and RATO aircraft use jets or rockets to take off faster (such as from a short runway).  Sure, they don't fly in space, but scramjets come darn close and I'm pretty sure SpaceX is actually working on a space plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on July 15, 2011, 05:54:11 pm
I'd feel sorry for the poor Kerbal pilots who would lift our monstrosities into the air. Odds are they would either get consumed in the flames behind our mighty 15-SB bearing rockets, or just get consumed in the fireball as it explodes immediately upon ignition.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 05:57:24 pm
The smart ones would be prepared for that and already have their ejection seats primed to the same button that releases the rocket from the plane.

PS: Thinking about how the future game will (supposedly) have a space-race type scenario between two or more Kerbal nations, I wonder if there will be a way to launch rockets at the same time? Were that the case, I'm quite sure that more than a few "spacecraft" would "veer off course" into the path of the much more valuable rockets being launched by the other nations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 06:06:02 pm
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/index.php?title=Planned_features

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 15, 2011, 06:07:20 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 05:57:24 pm
The smart ones would be prepared for that and already have their ejection seats primed to the same button that releases the rocket from the plane.

PS: Thinking about how the future game will (supposedly) have a space-race type scenario between two or more Kerbal nations, I wonder if there will be a way to launch rockets at the same time? Were that the case, I'm quite sure that more than a few "spacecraft" would "veer off course" into the path of the much more valuable rockets being launched by the other nations.
Are you proposing sabotage, dear pickle?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 06:08:53 pm
I wouldn't put it above some. But, of course, I'm certain anyone who realized the...ruthlessness of their fellow man would of course have contingency plans set up in case such an unfortunate event were to occur.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on July 15, 2011, 06:32:19 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 06:08:53 pm
I wouldn't put it above some. But, of course, I'm certain anyone who realized the...ruthlessness of their fellow man would of course have contingency plans set up in case such an unfortunate event were to occur.

I'm reminded of this UserFriendly.org strip (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010720).  Be nice if we could extort funds from local and foreign governments like that later on.  Who needs magma when I've got a few dozen ICBMs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vattic on July 15, 2011, 07:17:53 pm
Managed to orbit the planet for the first time. Went around once. Launch to landing: 41 minutes. I overshot the launchpad and landed in the sea. I thought the parachute was never going to open.

Spoiler: Sunrise with half a tank left (click to show/hide)

It might not be much but I'm pleased.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 15, 2011, 07:48:43 pm
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but the wings provide a surprising amount of lift. I made a single tank, single stage, liquid fuel rocket to play around with, added 8 wings. I had a hard time controlling it myself, but for some reason, on my nose dive back towards the pad, after I ejected the capsule from the rocket, the rocket's speed and the lift from the wings caused the remains of the rocket to nose up and fly a surprising distance horizontally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 15, 2011, 07:53:15 pm
It's amazing because who would have thought that wings provide lift?  :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 15, 2011, 08:18:20 pm
Quote from: kilakan on July 15, 2011, 07:53:15 pm
It's amazing because who would have thought that wings provide lift?  :p

It's not surprising that they do, just surprising how much.

Somehow I managed to get the rocket to do a slow loop around the launch pad, then let my capsule fall off and activated the parachute. My capsule with it's huge parachute hit the ground before the gliding rocket did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 15, 2011, 08:20:16 pm
I recall hearing that you could get a SAS in flight by putting a bunch of wings on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 08:23:01 pm
Wait, what? Was the rocket firing at the time? Because they do a lot of sky writing if left to fly around on their own. The winglets are basically large tail fins, which shouldn't provide any lift but keep the rocket steady from changes in yaw and pitch. I'm thinking it just appeared like they were providing lift.


I forgot about that point that 1-time rockets cost less then reusable  :-[. I could be wrong but going up in a plane would probably still be more cost effective then 1-time boosters, depending on the size of the payload.  Still, there's that problem of what happens to the plane after you launch the rocket. AI taking over is the only viable option I can think of. I don't know how safe it would be to put a plane on auto-pilot, fly your rocket into orbit and switch back to the plane in time. That would be awesome though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 15, 2011, 08:31:04 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 08:23:01 pm
Wait, what? Was the rocket firing at the time? Because they do a lot of sky writing if left to fly around on their own. The winglets are basically large tail fins, which shouldn't provide any lift but keep the rocket steady from changes in yaw and pitch. I'm thinking it just appeared like they were providing lift.

Nope, I had shut the engines down and was simply trying to get it to glide.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 08:33:04 pm
An AI could easily land itself. You simply give it a waypoint at the far end of a runway, then give it a series of waypoints with directions to guide it into landing. Admittedly, I doubt that the developers would really care that much about coding an AI algorithm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vattic on July 15, 2011, 08:59:46 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 08:33:04 pm
If you get to design the plane perhaps a parachute would work?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2011, 09:15:20 pm
I'd rather just use the rockets. Much simpler than flying a plane (and a lot more potential for Fun!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 15, 2011, 09:17:22 pm
Just found this game, and holy crap it is awesome. Sorry if this has been mentioned, but has anyone flown to the Sun yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 15, 2011, 09:21:59 pm
The sun is just an image, it doesnt actually exist yet. The planet is currently the only body mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 15, 2011, 09:41:17 pm
I think the sun does get bigger the further out you get. I'll have to go over screenshots later and see.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Charmander on July 15, 2011, 09:45:47 pm
... I have achieved orbit, with fuel left over.

Unfortunately, my periapsis is 37k up, and the apoapsis is in the region of 239k. Wonder if I can land...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rutsber on July 15, 2011, 10:10:20 pm
Does anyone else think that the devs like to delete threads on their forums for some reason? I've seen at least 3 different threads like the one I posted. Definitely not going to be active on that forum if my posts are just going to be deleted. It wasn't a troll or anything either. It was directed at the community as speculation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Blargityblarg on July 15, 2011, 10:47:46 pm
Asymmetrical ships are the most fun :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 11:53:49 pm
Quote from: Blargityblarg on July 15, 2011, 10:47:46 pm
Asymmetrical ships are the most fun insanely dangerous :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 16, 2011, 12:08:08 am
Quote from: Jay on July 15, 2011, 03:33:21 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on July 15, 2011, 03:31:54 pm
I mean, nothing attaches to them, that is quite shit.
Only things that would logically attach to them attach to them.
That means solid boosters.
What, you expected to be able to attach an SAS module sideways on the rocket?  Because that would work super well :V

EDIT: That's mainly because you can only radially mount stuff that's allowed to be surface-mounted, and that's only the solid boosters.
I modded fuel tanks to be surface-mountable, but they keep sticking on sideways and generally being invalid. Haven't tried SAS, but they do actually get more useful when they're farther from the center of the ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 12:24:44 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 11:53:49 pm
Quote from: Blargityblarg on July 15, 2011, 10:47:46 pm
Asymmetrical ships are the most fun insanely dangerous !!fun!! :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 01:04:44 am
Quote from: Charmander on July 15, 2011, 09:45:47 pm
... I have achieved orbit, with fuel left over.

Unfortunately, my periapsis is 37k up, and the apoapsis is in the region of 239k. Wonder if I can land...
You just have to drop some 4km from your periapsis to deorbit. Personally I'd recommend slowing your rocket down past the orbital velocity by thrusting backwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 01:45:14 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Well, you just don't follow the news, do you? That's not a theoretical plane, it has flown and launched a rocket into space, winning the X prize. The plane took the rocket to ~15km and the manned rocket flew up to ~102km of altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

If you also don't remember, the X15 did pretty much the same a few decades ago. But this was the first commercial one.

Fakeedit: Second flight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhpVHnAbrE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 03:38:29 am
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 01:45:14 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Well, you just don't follow the news, do you? That's not a theoretical plane, it has flown and launched a rocket into space, winning the X prize. The plane took the rocket to ~15km and the manned rocket flew up to ~102km of altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

If you also don't remember, the X15 did pretty much the same a few decades ago. But this was the first commercial one.

Fakeedit: Second flight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhpVHnAbrE

Actually I do, launching various objects from planes has been widely used since the very beginning of the space programs. I said rocket not plane.
I can see a plane being launched for LEO, but a rocket from a plane, I don't think so.
Which was the point. If the OP was saying having LEO 'planes' implemented, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 04:05:32 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 03:38:29 am
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 01:45:14 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Well, you just don't follow the news, do you? That's not a theoretical plane, it has flown and launched a rocket into space, winning the X prize. The plane took the rocket to ~15km and the manned rocket flew up to ~102km of altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

If you also don't remember, the X15 did pretty much the same a few decades ago. But this was the first commercial one.

Fakeedit: Second flight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhpVHnAbrE

Actually I do, launching various objects from planes has been widely used since the very beginning of the space programs. I said rocket not plane.
I can see a plane being launched for LEO, but a rocket from a plane, I don't think so.
Which was the point. If the OP was saying having LEO 'planes' implemented, I'm all for it.
I don't know about you, but it certainly seems to me that that's exactly what's happening in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 04:39:28 am
Why use planes at all? It's obvious that giant robots are much cooler:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribot.png)

Current record: 18km up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 16, 2011, 05:13:26 am
Current record: 62 meters
(http://img.ie/images/59678.jpg) (http://img.ie/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 06:28:14 am
There all so happy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 06:28:46 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 04:05:32 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 03:38:29 am
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 01:45:14 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Well, you just don't follow the news, do you? That's not a theoretical plane, it has flown and launched a rocket into space, winning the X prize. The plane took the rocket to ~15km and the manned rocket flew up to ~102km of altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

If you also don't remember, the X15 did pretty much the same a few decades ago. But this was the first commercial one.

Fakeedit: Second flight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhpVHnAbrE

Actually I do, launching various objects from planes has been widely used since the very beginning of the space programs. I said rocket not plane.
I can see a plane being launched for LEO, but a rocket from a plane, I don't think so.
Which was the point. If the OP was saying having LEO 'planes' implemented, I'm all for it.
I don't know about you, but it certainly seems to me that that's exactly what's happening in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

That is a plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 07:06:16 am
No, it isn't. You see that trail of fire? Airplanes don't run on rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 16, 2011, 07:11:25 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 07:06:16 am
No, it isn't. You see that trail of fire? Airplanes don't run on rockets.

Says who? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_planes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Shadowlord on July 16, 2011, 07:35:55 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 07:06:16 am
No, it isn't. You see that trail of fire? Airplanes don't run on rockets.

(http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/screen-shot-2011-07-13-at-3-10-26-pm.jpg?w=550&h=360)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 16, 2011, 07:57:07 am
Me having fun in multiplayer   :P
(http://img.ie/images/b7a33.jpg) (http://img.ie/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 07:58:25 am
Multiplayer?
WANT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 08:13:04 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 16, 2011, 07:35:55 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 07:06:16 am
No, it isn't. You see that trail of fire? Airplanes don't run on rockets.

(http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/screen-shot-2011-07-13-at-3-10-26-pm.jpg?w=550&h=360)
In fact, planes fly with props, or jets. Not rockets. That link Sordid posted was the first I've seen of any non spaceplanes using rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vattic on July 16, 2011, 08:31:46 am
But rockets are a type of jet engine.

/pedant
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 16, 2011, 09:28:31 am
WIKIPEDIA! I CHOOSE YOU!
Quote from: pokeball
A rocket engine, or simply "rocket," is a jet engine[1] that uses only propellant mass for forming its high speed propulsive jet.

I always confuse rockets and missiles. In Dutch, both use the same word (http://translate.google.com/#auto|nl|missile.%0Arocket.%0A).
and indeed, MP would be awesome in this game. Especially with (very unstable) attachable weapons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 16, 2011, 09:35:08 am
holy crap, you could race to the sun.  That would finnally give a use to my ship that can launch 20 solid fuel boosters off in a bunch of different directions at once without blowing up.  Missle Barrage anyone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 09:44:08 am
No, because the sun doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 16, 2011, 09:53:58 am
So? Nobody said you need to go to sun to win the race. You could just blow up the other dudes' ships .  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 10:00:35 am
I just realized, the windows on the crew pod make it look like a face. A mustached face. Turn-A Gundam, anyone?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribot_flight.png)

Now we just need a giant flail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 10:18:45 am
DUTCHLING.
WHERE DO I GET MULTIPLAYER?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 16, 2011, 10:25:54 am
It was a joke. I just had a 3 large boosters separated by decouples and decoupled them while they still had fuel. Wriggled around a bit and they flew away.
I wish there was MP though :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 10:39:14 am
Quote from: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 10:18:45 am
DUTCHLING.
WHERE DO I GET MULTIPLAYER?
What? You actually thought in the few ERs since the version you have, HarvestR could have completely rewritten the engine to be multiplayer compatible?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 10:50:56 am
Quote from: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 10:39:14 am
Quote from: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 10:18:45 am
DUTCHLING.
WHERE DO I GET MULTIPLAYER?
What? You actually thought in the few ERs since the version you have, HarvestR could have completely rewritten the engine to be multiplayer compatible?
Yeh can't blame a man for dreamin, can yeh?
 :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 11:54:40 am
Rockets, space-planes launching from planes, does it really matter? Most rocket formations made here are completely unrealistic, I don't care. Done with that discussion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 12:03:25 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 10:00:35 am
I just realized, the windows on the crew pod make it look like a face. A mustached face. Turn-A Gundam, anyone?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribot_flight.png)

Now we just need a giant flail.

Nice rocket!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 12:14:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 10:00:35 am
I just realized, the windows on the crew pod make it look like a face. A mustached face. Turn-A Gundam, anyone?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribot_flight.png)

Now we just need a giant flail.

Oooohhh... Nice transformer. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 12:58:53 pm
Rocketbot MkIV, bigger and badder.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribot_MkIV.png)

(literally badder, it can barely make it 3/4ths of the way that the previous version flies)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 01:59:19 pm
Jervis from Iron Man: "It appears his suit can fly."

edit: now you need mounted rocket-missles to launch from it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 02:12:39 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 06:28:46 am
Quote from: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 04:05:32 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 03:38:29 am
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 01:45:14 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 15, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 15, 2011, 04:20:22 pm
'Plane launch'?

It works in real life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've never heard of a rocket being launched from a plane into orbit, These little theoretical commercial planes, yes, but a real one? I don't see it.
Well, you just don't follow the news, do you? That's not a theoretical plane, it has flown and launched a rocket into space, winning the X prize. The plane took the rocket to ~15km and the manned rocket flew up to ~102km of altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q

If you also don't remember, the X15 did pretty much the same a few decades ago. But this was the first commercial one.

Fakeedit: Second flight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhpVHnAbrE

Actually I do, launching various objects from planes has been widely used since the very beginning of the space programs. I said rocket not plane.
I can see a plane being launched for LEO, but a rocket from a plane, I don't think so.
Which was the point. If the OP was saying having LEO 'planes' implemented, I'm all for it.
I don't know about you, but it certainly seems to me that that's exactly what's happening in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkUNP75-Q
That is a plane.
That plane is basically a rocket with wings capable of suborbital flight.

I really don't see the point of your douche-baggery, specially when we're talking about a game and/or possible future ventures of mankind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 16, 2011, 02:13:28 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 16, 2011, 08:13:04 am
In fact, planes fly with props, or jets. Not rockets. That link Sordid posted was the first I've seen of any non spaceplanes using rockets.

Then perhaps what you should've said was: "I've never heard of a rocket plane."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: MonkeyHead on July 16, 2011, 02:29:19 pm
2 words: Chuck Yeager. Rocket Plane argument over. Anyone with any pretence at having aeronautical knowledge should know about the Bell X-1...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm
Quote from: MonkeyHead on July 16, 2011, 02:29:19 pm
2 words: Chuck Yeager. Rocket Plane argument over. Anyone with any pretence at having aeronautical knowledge should know about the Bell X-1...
What about it? I'm not following the "Planes don't run on rockets" argument, that's stupid. Planes can run on anything.

I'm on the "You can't launch rockets from a plane" argument... Which is also stupid. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 02:54:36 pm
An airplane is something that uses a rigid aerodynamic shape to generate lifting force. A rocket is something that generates lift solely by application of Newton's third law (or whichever it was). So as long as it's got wings to fly, it's an airplane. If it's also got a proper rocket as an engine, that makes it an aerospace craft. Rockets and planes can coexist, you know.

Anyway, I've built this giant Iron Monger-y thing.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horriblabot_66_pad.jpg)

Thing is, I can't get this thing to fly. If you can tinker it into spaceworthiness (as opposed to breakinhalfandexplodiness), feel free to feel proud. Here's the craft file (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Horribabot%20Mk666.craft).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 16, 2011, 03:05:29 pm
So, i wanted a ion thruster, which led me to look at the cfg files, and i managed to create one ; it's actually a liquid fuel rocket, since i can't create a new type of rockets, but it has the same properties as a ion drive, and a "xenon tank" to go with it (revamped Liquid Fuel tank).

The good news is, it works really well, the other news is, from the little i saw, most parts seem to be really unrealistic. So, i think i'll look into it later, and try to make a "realistic" set of rockets soon.

Also, i played a bit with thrust and fuel consumption values, and managed to get above 999 999 km :D

It wasnt as easy as it sounds, because when you are very high (in the 100 000's of km but even below that), with a very fast rocket, every time you try to use your thruster, the rocket starts spinning around like crazy. It's really weird. In the end, i went with a modified "escape tower", because it pulls your command module instead of pushing it, and with the SAS on, most perturbations were suppressed (except once, but i could correct it right away). I got above 1500 km/s before giving up, so my next project is getting beyond lightspeed (300 000 km/s).

Oh and it's not just a matter of having crazy thrust, parts will be pulled apart/pierced through/explode if you have too much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 03:08:21 pm
What's next? Warp drive? Wormholes? :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 03:10:29 pm
There are already some warp nacelles over at the KSP forums.

And ion thrusters too, btw. Including realistic ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rilder on July 16, 2011, 03:11:36 pm
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm
I'm on the "You can't launch rockets from a plane" argument... Which is also stupid. :P

Yeah I have no idea what people are even arguing about.

Air-launching pretty much a fact, I don't see what the problem is. Just look up the Pegasus Rocket.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hell reading around I think there's even plans to use balloons to carry rockets up into the upper atmosphere before launching them into orbit.

Edit: KSP needs to add all kinds of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rocket_spacelaunch)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 03:11:43 pm
Well, someone on the KSP forums made warp nacelles.  :)

The robo looks better with the smaller arms I think, 1 LFR with a tank. It launches then.

Lol... tried launching your original and it just fell backwards into the launch tower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 16, 2011, 03:24:34 pm
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 03:08:21 pm
What's next? Warp drive? Wormholes? :3

aha ^^ that's for the guy who made the game to decide, but just so you know, ion drives aren't sci-fi, we use them already. They're actually much weaker than regular rockets, so you can't use them to take off, but they're very economical, so over long periods of time, you can gain quite a bit of speed. According to wikipedia, regular rockets can generate up to tens of millions of Newtons of thrust, whereas an ion drive can go only up to tens of Newtons (for now anyway). But, for the same mass of propellant, an ion drive will generate at least 10 times the thrust. It just needs time. So it's often used to make small orbital corrections aboard satellites and such.

But drives like the VASIMR are getting to the point where we can also use them to travel around in space, if you put enough of them together (but you still won't lift off with them, at least not from the earth)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on July 16, 2011, 03:40:37 pm
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm
I'm on the "You can't launch rockets from a plane" argument... Which is also stupid. :P

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ja676MG45Zg/Sw3ABPxo1NI/AAAAAAAAAmY/J9DmsJKh_GQ/s400/f-22+raptor+missile.jpg)

yup
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 03:57:07 pm
To be fair, that's a missile that doesn't go to space, but this one does:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It kills satellites.

;)

@Sirian

Oh, I mentioned because you want to go above the speed of light.

Considering the people making the game want some space exploration, it should be great to have such scifi drives.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 03:59:30 pm
To be fair, that argument got very boring, very fast. I'm willing to admit there are a few exceptions(if not in actuality, within reason) to the, plane launched rockets into orbit, idea.

End of argument.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 16, 2011, 04:14:32 pm
If you get above the speed of light, I'll be highly impressed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 04:14:41 pm
Would love to have ion thrusters, would be good for interplanetary travel.

Getting back to the plane-launch thing one last time, I never said that they it has actually been done before, I was just saying it's possible, which it is, and that it would be cool to have in KPS. Whether it's better then launching from the ground is a whole other topic. That's it. I don't know what the arguements now have to do with the game, maybe you should make a topic in general discussion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 16, 2011, 04:37:10 pm
I think that "planned features list" includes a variant of the construction area specifically tailored to "horizontal" craft, as well as runways for them. So, better or no, it's going to be an option in KPS. And it'll be glorious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 04:42:22 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 16, 2011, 04:14:32 pm
If you get above the speed of light, I'll be highly impressed.
Can someone mod in engines which are easily capable of reaching lightspeed? Or perhaps someone already has..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 16, 2011, 04:44:14 pm
THIS is all Jeb see's when he is being launched. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi54WXIoDas)
Or maybe This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweP9pTN9VA&feature=related)
I am trying to do something today; Make anyone who see's a reply from me say Oh shit, ponies! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0aVCuFHt88&feature=related)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Furtuka on July 16, 2011, 05:00:50 pm
Blaugh I just downloaded it and I have a noobish question. For some reason I'm not able to save or lauch my rockets  :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on July 16, 2011, 05:44:57 pm
I appear to be in a stable orbit--flight time's at 1:42, so I've made a couple of loops already. I'd left some fuel in the tank for a deorbit, but it certainly wasn't enough, and I wasn't sure I was going to make it anyway, so I burned it before I left for dinner and came back to find myself still floating gently over the planet, parachute out to catch me if I'd fallen.

Apogee was at ~140km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Virex on July 16, 2011, 06:26:18 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 16, 2011, 04:42:22 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 16, 2011, 04:14:32 pm
If you get above the speed of light, I'll be highly impressed.
Can someone mod in engines which are easily capable of reaching lightspeed? Or perhaps someone already has..
You're probably going to rip your ship apart if you'd give it enough acceleration to quickly reach it. Which is interesting in it's own right XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 16, 2011, 06:29:08 pm
Reminds me I made a ship that bounced on its own on the launch pad... The bouncing increased until she ship broke apart. At which point I ignited it for a huge kaboom launch at 16ish G.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 16, 2011, 06:59:06 pm
I've done it! Well, very nearly. I launched myself into orbit and very delicately adjusted my orbit with thrusters to be as circular as possible, aswell as just beyond the edge of the atmosphere.

Apoapsis: 35,108m at 2357.8m/s
Periapsis: 34,784m at 2359.0m/s

!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 16, 2011, 07:01:09 pm
I exploded my rocket off the pad and it survived! Only made it to about 5k meters, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 16, 2011, 11:14:20 pm
I have phased out the Neptune series rockets for a more stable and productive Nova series.
I can reach ~100 thousand km with two stages now instead of 3 because of bug fixes.
Nova I reaches 800 thousand km with still enough fuel left to turn around and get back to the planet easily.
by Nova IV we are projected to double or triple that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 16, 2011, 11:18:58 pm
Pics?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 16, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
Heh, I built a 2 stage srb only rocket which can be successfully set into orbit, but only the 10% of the time it doesn't have a resonating failure or hit itself or simply explode randomly on the way up. Though it isn't a very good orbit, nor is there any maneuvering fuel left, as it is all srb.

The fun rockets are the ones which start with an epic failure of a design and are tweaked until just under the 100% failure rate. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 16, 2011, 11:21:18 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 16, 2011, 11:18:58 pm
Pics?

Yeah I'll get a few up, way too tired for anything still.
I averaged out 400+ pushups a day over the last 6 days.
That doesn't even include the running or ab workouts I also did.

I'm too tired to deal with this, printscreen won't take pictures of the game, just my desktop when the game runs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 16, 2011, 11:53:47 pm
A friend of mine berates me for showing this game to him, because it's now nearly the only thing he plays now.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 11:57:39 pm
Quote from: alway on July 16, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
Heh, I built a 2 stage srb only rocket which can be successfully set into orbit, but only the 10% of the time it doesn't have a resonating failure or hit itself or simply explode randomly on the way up. Though it isn't a very good orbit, nor is there any maneuvering fuel left, as it is all srb.

The fun rockets are the ones which start with an epic failure of a design and are tweaked until just under the 100% failure rate. :D

Sounds Russian.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rawr359 on July 17, 2011, 12:13:07 am
I tried to make a neato screenshot that had my command pod next to the sun with all the lens flares and stuff and was going to caption "Someday..." but I fucked it up. :C

On a separate note, this game is awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 01:27:58 am
Spoiler: "Hey guys...  Do you see what I see?" (click to show/hide)

Whoever made those parts really needs to fix up the connectors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:02:33 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 01:27:58 am
Spoiler: "Hey guys...  Do you see what I see?" (click to show/hide)

Whoever made those parts really needs to fix up the connectors.
It's too bad that the connection fragility you're complaining about is currently hard-coded, then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 02:08:07 am
Quote from: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:02:33 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 01:27:58 am
Spoiler: "Hey guys...  Do you see what I see?" (click to show/hide)

Whoever made those parts really needs to fix up the connectors.
It's too bad that the connection fragility you're complaining about is currently hard-coded, then.

I guess hes referring to the devs then. Obv.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:15:56 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 02:08:07 am
Quote from: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:02:33 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 01:27:58 am
Spoiler: "Hey guys...  Do you see what I see?" (click to show/hide)

Whoever made those parts really needs to fix up the connectors.
It's too bad that the connection fragility you're complaining about is currently hard-coded, then.

I guess hes referring to the devs then. Obv.
"Whoever made those parts" does not refer to the devs when he's specifically talking about third-party parts, obviously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 02:17:44 am
Yes, I was unaware that the connection problem was the engine itself.  HarvesteR better fix that if he ever expects people to use large pieces then, because that imposes a pretty serious limitation on element sizes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 17, 2011, 02:21:56 am
I imagine a system where it has multiple connector points would work, and make sense. But the engine doesn't work in a way that makes that possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 02:27:17 am
Quote from: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:15:56 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 02:08:07 am
Quote from: Jay on July 17, 2011, 02:02:33 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 01:27:58 am
Spoiler: "Hey guys...  Do you see what I see?" (click to show/hide)

Whoever made those parts really needs to fix up the connectors.
It's too bad that the connection fragility you're complaining about is currently hard-coded, then.

I guess hes referring to the devs then. Obv.
"Whoever made those parts" does not refer to the devs when he's specifically talking about third-party parts, obviously.

Whoever made those parts.
???
Devs made those parts.
???
Ergo, hes referring to the devs. Obviously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 17, 2011, 02:41:35 am
Those parts are third-party mods, so not made by the devs. All the parts devs made are normal-sized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 02:45:38 am
Don't feed the trolls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sluissa on July 17, 2011, 08:32:15 am
Yeah, I've had connection problems like those as well. One of my designs simply left a liquid fuel engine sitting on the pad. Wasn't anything I found I could do to prevent it, so I just had to scrap the design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Charmander on July 17, 2011, 08:33:16 am
I managed to get an orbit even more eccentric than my last one, between 38km and 870km. More fuel left, and I managed to land safely with the entirety of the main rocket body intact, only a few kilometers downrange of the launchpad. Two full orbits, too.

And from what I can gather most of the part problems are down to not being properly registered in a stage. It's fixable, but it can get messy quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dutchling on July 17, 2011, 10:13:33 am
Is there any reason why liquid fuel engines blow up other stuff and solid fuel engines don't?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: kilakan on July 17, 2011, 10:16:35 am
Quote from: Dutchling on July 17, 2011, 10:13:33 am
Is there any reason why liquid fuel engines blow up other stuff and solid fuel engines don't?
I've found that solid ones do but you have to strap like three together and have them all hit the same part at the same time, so presumably it's a heat/thrust type issue.  I know for sure that liquid thrusters produce a heck of alot more heat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 17, 2011, 11:19:17 am
A solid fuel engine's explosive potential decreases as it runs out of fuel, but liquid fuel engines remain constant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on July 17, 2011, 04:51:59 pm
Discovery: One SAS and a metre nosecone from the sunday punch pack negates the overheat effect of a large SRB from the Sunday Punch pack.


In other words, give each large solid fuel an SAS and a nosecone, and you can have 100 of them together, they still won't overheat enough to explode
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 06:36:13 pm
HTML Kerbal orbital calculator. (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=594.0)  Pretty handy - if you want a circular orbit, just type in equal distances.

Experimental build of 0.8.5 X2 is out, seems pretty stable so far, and HarvesteR thinks he fixed a performance bug for rockets with large numbers of fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 17, 2011, 06:39:39 pm
I love experimental builds because they generaly work incredably well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 17, 2011, 06:46:47 pm
I had the best orbit going, it was only about 20km between low and high and I had a tank and a half of fuel left. I thought I was  getting real close to KSC so I did my de-orbit burn... and ended up on the wrong side of the ocean. I had so much fuel left over that I tried to land up right, but pulled a mars mission and the rockets cut too early. I was able to de-couple and land safely nontheless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 17, 2011, 08:03:13 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 11:57:39 pm
Quote from: alway on July 16, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
Heh, I built a 2 stage srb only rocket which can be successfully set into orbit, but only the 10% of the time it doesn't have a resonating failure or hit itself or simply explode randomly on the way up. Though it isn't a very good orbit, nor is there any maneuvering fuel left, as it is all srb.

The fun rockets are the ones which start with an epic failure of a design and are tweaked until just under the 100% failure rate. :D

Sounds Russian.
No, it is the American way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_TV3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_rocket
Quote
At its launch attempt on December 6, 1957 at Cape Canaveral, the booster ignited and began to rise; but about two seconds after liftoff, after rising about four feet (1.2 m), the rocket lost thrust and began to fall back to the launch pad. As it settled the fuel tanks ruptured and exploded, destroying the rocket and severely damaging the launch pad.

Only 3 of 11 launches were successful. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Red on July 17, 2011, 09:54:10 pm
(My rocket is floating in orbit with a full tank of fuel left)

"Hmm.. I should probably turn on the stage lock so I don't accidentally jettison my engine."
*Presses Spacebar when reaching for the alt key, engine jettisons.*
*facepalm*

Luckily my orbit turned out to be less circular than I thought it was and Jeb and crew eventually made it back to the ground safely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 10:19:33 pm
Quote from: alway on July 17, 2011, 08:03:13 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 16, 2011, 11:57:39 pm
Quote from: alway on July 16, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
Heh, I built a 2 stage srb only rocket which can be successfully set into orbit, but only the 10% of the time it doesn't have a resonating failure or hit itself or simply explode randomly on the way up. Though it isn't a very good orbit, nor is there any maneuvering fuel left, as it is all srb.

The fun rockets are the ones which start with an epic failure of a design and are tweaked until just under the 100% failure rate. :D

Sounds Russian.
No, it is the American way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_TV3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_rocket
Quote
At its launch attempt on December 6, 1957 at Cape Canaveral, the booster ignited and began to rise; but about two seconds after liftoff, after rising about four feet (1.2 m), the rocket lost thrust and began to fall back to the launch pad. As it settled the fuel tanks ruptured and exploded, destroying the rocket and severely damaging the launch pad.

Only 3 of 11 launches were successful. :)

Lol you guys are such trolls. Need to grow up. It was a joke about the safety of the rocket. Is your intellectual self esteem that low you have to keep up these attempts at petty point scoring? amusing  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 17, 2011, 10:29:03 pm
The petty point scoring is directly tied to our amusement, thanks. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 17, 2011, 11:20:05 pm
Yay! 8.5 fixes the liquid fuel tank slowness issues! :D

Mine was also a joke about the safety of rockets throughout history. The Vanguards are pretty much the design one thinks of when thinking of failrockets. It's wiki page even has a picture of the first launch with the caption
Quote
Vanguard rocket undergoing rapid unplanned disassembly shortly after launch at Cape Canaveral (December 6, 1957).

On a humorous side note, according to my uncle, 'rapid unplanned disassembly' is actually the official term for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 17, 2011, 11:23:41 pm
Good to know theres always a way to not say "its exploding" outright. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 03:19:21 am
Parachute experiment log, attempt #18.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Parafail.jpg)

Results conclusive. It is impossible to preserve liquid fuel engines with any sane amount of parachutes.

Phase 2 of research is postponed pending shipment of 5000 parachutes.

(and yes, those are side-mounted parachutes. Something vanilla should have, IMO, it's a trivial mod.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 18, 2011, 03:24:32 am
I've tried parachuting parts too (even before .85) and yeah, it seems pretty hopeless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 03:28:18 am
It's not all parts, just liquid fuel thrusters. Empty fuel tanks and solid boosters can survive just fine. In that test the fuel tank stack crashed because the tanks were mostly full - I just flew up 600 meters to test the chutes.

Also, looking at the files, it seems the reason for this is that the ExplosionPotential values haven't been set for them. I suppose it's an easy fix - after all, the engine itself isn't supposed to be explosive unless it's damaged during operation. I mean, it's mostly just piping, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 18, 2011, 03:29:57 am
Oh yeah, liquid fuel thrusters break off too easily. I've had some big ships where liquid fuel thrusters contacting the launch pad break off as soon as the ship spawns, just under its own load.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 18, 2011, 03:39:57 am
I've read several good tutorials about how to get into orbit, and the new orbit calculator makes staying in orbit pretty easy (although it requires quite a bit of station-keeping).  Now I just need some instruction on how to descend from orbit anywhere near at intended splashdown.  Last roundabout, I fell a bit shy of the launchpad, in the sea to the east with the campus just over the horizon.  Admittedly, falling into the ocean within rowboat distance of home is better than NASA ever managed, but I want to land smack on target.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 03:19:21 am
Parachute experiment log, attempt #18.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Results conclusive. It is impossible to preserve liquid fuel engines with any sane amount of parachutes.

On the upside, you built a totem pole.  That's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 18, 2011, 04:55:04 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 18, 2011, 03:39:57 am
I've read several good tutorials about how to get into orbit, and the new orbit calculator makes staying in orbit pretty easy (although it requires quite a bit of station-keeping).  Now I just need some instruction on how to descend from orbit anywhere near at intended splashdown.  Last roundabout, I fell a bit shy of the launchpad, in the sea to the east with the campus just over the horizon.  Admittedly, falling into the ocean within rowboat distance of home is better than NASA ever managed, but I want to land smack on target.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 03:19:21 am
Parachute experiment log, attempt #18.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Results conclusive. It is impossible to preserve liquid fuel engines with any sane amount of parachutes.

On the upside, you built a totem pole.  That's pretty awesome.
I've managed to land in the launch zone by deaccelerating while approaching my perigee above the launch zone. It was a significant part luck, though, as it's not easy to eyeball massive distances while going at massive speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 05:21:40 am
I think it's pretty easy to land anywhere if you've got fuel to spare and are good on the controls.

Btw, does anyone need these side-mounted parachutes? I didn't download any mod packs, so I've no idea if anyone else made 'em.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: dogstile on July 18, 2011, 05:42:41 am
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 17, 2011, 10:19:33 pm

Lol you guys are such trolls. Need to grow up. It was a joke about the safety of the rocket. Is your intellectual self esteem that low you have to keep up these attempts at petty point scoring? amusing  :P

The difference between trolling and what you're seeing is MASSIVE. If anything, you're trolling with that little jab you had there. * twitches*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 18, 2011, 06:01:03 am
Judging by some of his posts over the last few pages, I don't think Deadmeat has any real idea what the word "troll" means, since he basically called himself such a little while ago.  He saying things he heard cool people say, it doesn't matter.


The ETA for version 0.9 is "three weeks", which will supposedly include symmetrical reconnectors (i.e. 1-to-3 and 3-to-1), a totally redesigned staging system (so you can define as many stages as you want, any way you want), and some other changes.  Three weeks sure sounds like a long time, when you've only been playing for a week.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 18, 2011, 12:42:33 pm
While I had the wrong location (the pad was on the other side of the ocean) I did manage to put down almost exactly where I THOUGHT the pad was.

De-Orbit: I slowed down in 300m/s intervals. To do this, I put my rocket in the exact opposite  heading as my velocity and throttled up very lightly for slow burns. This let me see how my speed was changing my altitude. I was down to about 1100m/s before I felt it was time to do my full de-orbit. I kept my rocket on the same heading (again, opposite from my directly of travel) but this time I pitched the nose down and fired my rockets until my lateral speed hit zero and I started falling like crazy.

Then I put my rocket straight up. It actually didn't take that much throttle to keep my speed reasonable and aim my "lander". I ran out of fuel about 800 meters above the ground though and had to pull the chute.

Do you use the same amount getting to space either way? Is there a "most efficient" way?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on July 18, 2011, 01:14:55 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 18, 2011, 06:01:03 am
The ETA for version 0.9 is "three weeks", which will supposedly include symmetrical reconnectors (i.e. 1-to-3 and 3-to-1), a totally redesigned staging system (so you can define as many stages as you want, any way you want), and some other changes.  Three weeks sure sounds like a long time, when you've only been playing for a week.

I lust for a proper 3-1 connector. That would make my second-to-last stage so much more effective.

Also, I lust for a stack decoupler that doesn't block itself when you attach two SRBs side-by-side.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 18, 2011, 01:28:25 pm
Actually trying to do a controled landing without a parachute, awesome. Practice for the moon.

By efficient I assume you mean for landing a lander and not just a regular capsule. Well from my experience, the atmosphere is sooo thick that you slow down incredibly fast, to the point where you eventually lose all horizontal movement and fall vertically. I'd do a regular deorbit burn (what you described is called a retro-grade burn) and wait untill you're pretty close to the ground before slowing yourself with thrusters. I wouldn't even worry about lateral movement, the atmosphere will fix that for you. Would probably take a lot of testing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Roboboy33 on July 18, 2011, 02:03:34 pm
My rocket failed because i forgot to add fuel to a liquid engine!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 18, 2011, 02:21:58 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 18, 2011, 01:28:25 pm
Actually trying to do a controled landing without a parachute, awesome. Practice for the moon.

By efficient I assume you mean for landing a lander and not just a regular capsule. Well from my experience, the atmosphere is sooo thick that you slow down incredibly fast, to the point where you eventually lose all horizontal movement and fall vertically. I'd do a regular deorbit burn (what you described is called a retro-grade burn) and wait untill you're pretty close to the ground before slowing yourself with thrusters. I wouldn't even worry about lateral movement, the atmosphere will fix that for you. Would probably take a lot of testing.
Ya, the atmos will typically take you down to about 100-150m/s, at which point slowing down to landing speed takes a negligible amount of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2011, 02:23:40 pm
Wait until the athmo heat you up...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 18, 2011, 02:23:59 pm
What is a regular de-orbit burn? Just point yourself down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 02:27:10 pm
If you're reasonably close to the atmosphere, a burn downwards might get you to rapidly slow down and deorbit. In other cases, the best way is to reverse course and slow down to less-than-orbital speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 18, 2011, 02:36:56 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 18, 2011, 02:27:10 pm
In other cases, the best way is to reverse course and slow down to less-than-orbital speeds.
This, you can very easily deorbit by just slowing down. It takes much less fuel to go below the speed necessary to orbit the planet than it does to redirect your force downwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 18, 2011, 02:45:29 pm
Is there any reason to not go full throttle all the way across the sky?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 18, 2011, 02:47:23 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 18, 2011, 02:45:29 pm
Is there any reason to not go full throttle all the way across the sky?
It's less fuel efficient while still in the atmosphere than slow acceleration. There's a lot of drag in the atmosphere and your fuel is better spent above the 35km mark.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Burnt Pies on July 18, 2011, 02:50:58 pm
Also, engines overheating causes them to explode. Not the best thing to do with an engine, for certain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sowelu on July 18, 2011, 03:13:42 pm
I forgot which subforum I was on, and thought it was going to be like this:  http://www.astronauts4hire.org/  which is a real thing that exists.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 18, 2011, 03:19:59 pm
I am designing a spacecraft composed of 4 stages, a booster stage boosting the vessel above the 35 km mark, an orbiter stage wich puts the vessel in a LEO and a deorbiting stage, then a lander module, currently i am working on the lander module, it just an space orange right now, and proably wont be anything else. I am working on an LW orbiter, wich is also going to be cool to look at when deorbiting. The deorbiter should just be a very strong engine with very little fuel capacity. The boosters are just the regular death-trap-stack-o-doom wich goes apeshit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 18, 2011, 03:48:27 pm
The most efficient way to deorbit is to do a retro-grade burn at apoapsis. That would be burning in the direction of the yellow circle with an X through it at the highest point in your orbit. How long you burn depends on how high your orbit is, but with how powerful these engines are a few seconds at max thrust will probably be enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Roboboy33 on July 18, 2011, 04:36:38 pm
Hey!  0.8.5 just came out!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 18, 2011, 04:44:04 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on July 18, 2011, 04:36:38 pm
Hey!  0.8.5 just came out!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Roboboy33 on July 18, 2011, 05:00:49 pm
I got my ship up to 225000 meters... and still clming... i ran out fo fueal tho ;) i think ill make it to the moon

i went as high as 279342 meters. then started falling.... slowly....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 18, 2011, 05:35:35 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 18, 2011, 04:44:04 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on July 18, 2011, 04:36:38 pm
Hey!  0.8.5 just came out!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not everyone keeps up with the experimental releases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 18, 2011, 06:24:46 pm
Damn it, I just put in the previous version. Keep Stop with the constant updates!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on July 18, 2011, 06:28:08 pm
Quote from: Akura on July 18, 2011, 06:24:46 pm
Damn it, I just put in the previous version. Keep Stop with the constant updates!

Apparently for the next 3 weeks they'll be developing 0.9.0.

Careful what you wish for! Muahahahahaha!

(it will be awesome though, new staging system and terrain engine, I expect they'll put up a list soon)

EDIT:
Code: [Select]
Here are the features for the 0.9 release:

Estimated release date: Aug/08

New:
* Massive overhaul on the staging mechanics.
* Input Mapping screen
* Video settings screen
* Audio settings screen
* Mini-settings screen for the in-game pause menu.

BugFixes:


This list will grow as new features and fixes are implemented. Features marked in green are already implemented.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 19, 2011, 12:34:12 am
Is there a hight in this game where your astronauts stop loseing momentum? My most successful launches have relied heavily on useing momentum to reach great hights, but I'm wondering if there is a point where they stop loseing it(and just drift in space).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 19, 2011, 01:51:51 am
As far as I can tell, there's no way to escape the planet's gravitational influence.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rawr359 on July 19, 2011, 02:37:04 am
I'm 90% sure you can reach escape velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 19, 2011, 03:51:24 am
Quote from: Sensei on July 19, 2011, 01:51:51 am
As far as I can tell, there's no way to escape the planet's gravitational influence.
You can reach a point where gravity is negligible, like losing .1 m/s every minute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 19, 2011, 04:05:29 am
I'm haveing a competition with one of my friends, him and his love of overcomplicateing things and making them effitient, me just doing what seems to work.
His highest is 400k about so far.
I hit 1 mill 79k, awesome.
My designs have alot of explotions though on the way up due to overheating.
Of course as I said, most of my designs rely on useing pure momentum to get up really high. I think I lost my last engine at 300k for this new personal record.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Theodolus on July 19, 2011, 07:47:28 am
Hooray! First time actually achieving orbit! Unfortunately I seem to be out of fuel. Went to bed last night and left it running. This morning I see that I've been orbiting for 7+ hours. Think I'll leave it running while I'm at work to see what happens. :) The lowest my orbit gets is raound 97000. I'm not sure what the furthest I get is though.

(http://img.ie/07aac.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 19, 2011, 07:52:08 am
How the heck did you get to orbit? Mine just drop like rocks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on July 19, 2011, 07:56:38 am
Theodolus, when you end the flight it'll tell you your peak altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 10:34:52 am
Blast! Who knew rocket science was so difficult?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: noah22223 on July 19, 2011, 10:48:36 am
Quote from: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 10:34:52 am
Blast! Who knew rocket science was so difficult?
Why all you need is moar fuel, and moar fuel to carry the moar fuel etc. etc.!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 11:15:47 am
18 minutes into an attempted orbit- 2000m/s and falling at 600k meters and rising. I sure hope this rocket comes back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on July 19, 2011, 11:34:36 am
I think you may have gone a bit too much up and not quite enough sideways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 11:40:48 am
Quote from: KaguroDraven on July 19, 2011, 07:52:08 am
How the heck did you get to orbit? Mine just drop like rocks.

Getting into orbit and flinging yourself into space are two different things, but achieved in similar ways. You go straight up for a while, then you go up at an angle for a while longer. Once you break about 40km, you've made it.

You'll need to keep your green circle (actually direction of travel) out of the red area.

My favorite design so far is a three stage system. The top stage (the one connected to my command module) is just 3 fuel tanks and a liquid fuel engine. Below that is a tri-coupler with 2 fuel tanks each and a liquid engine. Below that is 3 more SRBs. 3 more SRBs are attached to the liquid fuel cans.

All 6 SRBs are in the first stage, and their burn gets me up high enough to lean over. When it comes time to run your liquid fuel motors, run them at 75% or 80%. You should have no problem flinging yourself into space.

Quote from: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 11:15:47 am
18 minutes into an attempted orbit- 2000m/s and falling at 600k meters and rising. I sure hope this rocket comes back.

I try to hit 50km up going about 2300.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 12:01:16 pm
Latest attempt has a good chance- current altitude is 80km (and, unfortunately, rising) and speed is 2300 and not budging an inch. Better news, I've still got half a tank for maneuvers and eventual de-orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 12:23:16 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 17, 2011, 06:36:13 pm
HTML Kerbal orbital calculator. (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=594.0)  Pretty handy - if you want a circular orbit, just type in equal distances.

Experimental build of 0.8.5 X2 is out, seems pretty stable so far, and HarvesteR thinks he fixed a performance bug for rockets with large numbers of fuel tanks.

Thanks, this is really useful. According to that, I AM in a stable orbit, but its rather ugly- Periapsis is only 48km up, while Apoapsis is ~100km. On the plus side, I've spent my first "night" in KSP.

Spoiler: Sunrise! Large image (click to show/hide)

I don't have much fuel left for more maneuvering, so we'll see how this goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soralin on July 19, 2011, 12:36:54 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 11:40:48 am
Getting into orbit and flinging yourself into space are two different things, but achieved in similar ways. You go straight up for a while, then you go up at an angle for a while longer. Once you break about 40km, you've made it.

You'll need to keep your green circle (actually direction of travel) out of the red area.
All you have to do to fly is throw yourself at the ground and miss. :)  Yeah, getting that sideways velocity is the key, if you just go straight up, you'll just come back down again (or not if you're moving faster than the escape velocity), you need to get enough velocity along the ground so that you're moving fast enough that when you fall, you're going fast enough to the side that you miss hitting the planet. If you want a nice circular orbit, I just cut my engines and drifted up until my vertical velocity was about zero, and then aimed horizontal and blasted my way up to orbital speeds.

This is also really helpful: https://gist.github.com/1073201  It's a table of the velocity you need for a circular orbit, or escape velocity, at a certain distance above the planet. :)

Edit: Ah, nice, there's a calculator. :)
Quote
My favorite design so far is a three stage system. The top stage (the one connected to my command module) is just 3 fuel tanks and a liquid fuel engine. Below that is a tri-coupler with 2 fuel tanks each and a liquid engine. Below that is 3 more SRBs. 3 more SRBs are attached to the liquid fuel cans.

All 6 SRBs are in the first stage, and their burn gets me up high enough to lean over. When it comes time to run your liquid fuel motors, run them at 75% or 80%. You should have no problem flinging yourself into space.
Yeah, I used something similar in my orbital rocket, although I had one less fuel tank on the top, and I had 9 SRBs attached around the bottom 3 liquid engines.  And I had the stages set up, so all the SRBs and the bottom liquid rockets were all firing on takeoff, and then I could just jettison the SRBs when they ran out of fuel. :)  I got into a nice orbit between 275-325km.  And I even had 2/3 of a tank a fuel left over, which was enough to de-orbit and land back on the surface.  (where I inexplicably exploded on contact with my parachute open, while trying to land in the middle of an ocean. :))

Quote from: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 11:15:47 am
18 minutes into an attempted orbit- 2000m/s and falling at 600k meters and rising. I sure hope this rocket comes back.
Check the chart linked in this post, at 600km, escape velocity is 2425m/s  So you should end up coming back eventually. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 19, 2011, 12:52:08 pm
After making 2 full revolutions, I am attempting to land. Unfortunately, I accidentally deployed my parachute while still at 60km up. Fortunately, for a piece of canvas found on the side of the road this chute is surprisingly durable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 19, 2011, 12:55:06 pm
Quote from: KaguroDraven on July 19, 2011, 07:52:08 am
How the heck did you get to orbit? Mine just drop like rocks.
My Guide to getting into orbit
1. Get to 30km up with decent speed, cut engines
2. Wait until the vertical thrust meter gets to a horizontal 0.
3. Speed up until 2330 m/s while staying above 35km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 02:06:32 pm
Quote from: Soralin on July 19, 2011, 12:36:54 pm
Quote
My favorite design so far is a three stage system. The top stage (the one connected to my command module) is just 3 fuel tanks and a liquid fuel engine. Below that is a tri-coupler with 2 fuel tanks each and a liquid engine. Below that is 3 more SRBs. 3 more SRBs are attached to the liquid fuel cans.

All 6 SRBs are in the first stage, and their burn gets me up high enough to lean over. When it comes time to run your liquid fuel motors, run them at 75% or 80%. You should have no problem flinging yourself into space.
Yeah, I used something similar in my orbital rocket, although I had one less fuel tank on the top, and I had 9 SRBs attached around the bottom 3 liquid engines.  And I had the stages set up, so all the SRBs and the bottom liquid rockets were all firing on takeoff, and then I could just jettison the SRBs when they ran out of fuel. :)  I got into a nice orbit between 275-325km.  And I even had 2/3 of a tank a fuel left over, which was enough to de-orbit and land back on the surface.  (where I inexplicably exploded on contact with my parachute open, while trying to land in the middle of an ocean. :))

How do you manage to drop your SRBs whith the liquid fuel still going? I have tried it, SRB and liquid fuel on the same stage, then the next stage is release of the SRB but something always goes wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 19, 2011, 02:19:14 pm
What always goes wrong? I've done that before just fine. If you think the fact that liquid fuel engines are still going is the problem, you could throttle them off before dropping the SRBs and then back on again afterwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Virex on July 19, 2011, 02:52:25 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 02:06:32 pm
Quote from: Soralin on July 19, 2011, 12:36:54 pm
Quote
My favorite design so far is a three stage system. The top stage (the one connected to my command module) is just 3 fuel tanks and a liquid fuel engine. Below that is a tri-coupler with 2 fuel tanks each and a liquid engine. Below that is 3 more SRBs. 3 more SRBs are attached to the liquid fuel cans.

All 6 SRBs are in the first stage, and their burn gets me up high enough to lean over. When it comes time to run your liquid fuel motors, run them at 75% or 80%. You should have no problem flinging yourself into space.
Yeah, I used something similar in my orbital rocket, although I had one less fuel tank on the top, and I had 9 SRBs attached around the bottom 3 liquid engines.  And I had the stages set up, so all the SRBs and the bottom liquid rockets were all firing on takeoff, and then I could just jettison the SRBs when they ran out of fuel. :)  I got into a nice orbit between 275-325km.  And I even had 2/3 of a tank a fuel left over, which was enough to de-orbit and land back on the surface.  (where I inexplicably exploded on contact with my parachute open, while trying to land in the middle of an ocean.

How do you manage to drop your SRBs whith the liquid fuel still going? I have tried it, SRB and liquid fuel on the same stage, then the next stage is release of the SRB but something always goes wrong.
Are you attaching the SRB's with radial decouplers? If not, then that's your problem. You need to make a stage for the SRBs then drag the liquid fuel engines to that stage in the stage management window.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: ToonyMan on July 19, 2011, 03:02:52 pm
I was able to achieve 450km with vanilla parts before crashing down near where I launched in an almost complete orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 03:04:37 pm
Quote from: Virex on July 19, 2011, 02:52:25 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 02:06:32 pm
Quote from: Soralin on July 19, 2011, 12:36:54 pm
Quote
My favorite design so far is a three stage system. The top stage (the one connected to my command module) is just 3 fuel tanks and a liquid fuel engine. Below that is a tri-coupler with 2 fuel tanks each and a liquid engine. Below that is 3 more SRBs. 3 more SRBs are attached to the liquid fuel cans.

All 6 SRBs are in the first stage, and their burn gets me up high enough to lean over. When it comes time to run your liquid fuel motors, run them at 75% or 80%. You should have no problem flinging yourself into space.
Yeah, I used something similar in my orbital rocket, although I had one less fuel tank on the top, and I had 9 SRBs attached around the bottom 3 liquid engines.  And I had the stages set up, so all the SRBs and the bottom liquid rockets were all firing on takeoff, and then I could just jettison the SRBs when they ran out of fuel. :)  I got into a nice orbit between 275-325km.  And I even had 2/3 of a tank a fuel left over, which was enough to de-orbit and land back on the surface.  (where I inexplicably exploded on contact with my parachute open, while trying to land in the middle of an ocean.

How do you manage to drop your SRBs whith the liquid fuel still going? I have tried it, SRB and liquid fuel on the same stage, then the next stage is release of the SRB but something always goes wrong.
Are you attaching the SRB's with radial decouplers? If not, then that's your problem. You need to make a stage for the SRBs then drag the liquid fuel engines to that stage in the stage management window.

I always use side coupler things, they never seem to work but I can't remember the exact problem. I think it was that the liquid engines would stop running once their stage was no longer active.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 19, 2011, 03:16:49 pm
I can say for sure that they don't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 19, 2011, 04:36:47 pm
There's probably something wrong with your stages or how you placed the decouplers and things. I regularly llift off with SRB's and LFR's going and detatching the SRB's when they run out, continuing to burn the LFR's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 19, 2011, 08:47:10 pm
OMFG I did it!

After 1 complete orbit with a tank and a half of liquid fuel remaining, I decided to try a powered landing. I got distracted and missed KSC, but decided to say fuck it and "aim" for the next land mass. I slowed myself down and waited for reentry.

It was very hard but I resolved myself not to slow down at all until 2000 AGL. When I did, I throttled up too much and bounced somewhere between 600 and 100 feet. Finally I hit the sweet spot and my craft desended. It got closer and closer, going about 16m/s. Engines hit and exploded, fuel tank one hit and exploded, same with the second and third. The coupler I would have used to seperate the comand module in an an abort came loose of the command module but did not explode.

The command module landed on its top, destroying the chute, but leaving the Kermen alive!

I know I know, pics or it didn't happen. It did but no pics :(.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 19, 2011, 08:52:09 pm
Question: Is it possible to kill one or more to the astronauts without killing them all?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 19, 2011, 08:52:46 pm
So far, I believe not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 19, 2011, 09:23:47 pm
You could pause->End Flight as it explodes. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 19, 2011, 09:39:22 pm
I finally managed to reach lightspeed and above, but right now high speeds and long distances are not properly handled so it's really buggy (your rocket will spin uncontrolably shortly after launch).

Anyway, if you want to do it, the key is to reduce the mass of stuff (notably the command module), and then even with a low thrust you can get to ridiculous speeds. My personal best was 6.6c (2 000 000 km/s).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 20, 2011, 07:43:59 am
Is this any sort of acheivement? Just got this game, so I dont know if this is common to get this high.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Update: Started losing altitude at 1,200 km up. I'm actually quite disappointed; faulty physics at work there. The gravitational pull on something 1,200 km from the planet would be way too weak to pull me down this quick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 20, 2011, 08:26:49 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 20, 2011, 07:43:59 am
Is this any sort of acheivement? Just got this game, so I dont know if this is common to get this high.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Update: Started losing altitude at 1,200 km up. I'm actually quite disappointed; faulty physics at work there. The gravitational pull on something 1,200 km from the planet would be way too weak to pull me down this quick.
Well, the lack of any other sources of gravity in the universe is a tentative issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 20, 2011, 10:47:01 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 20, 2011, 07:43:59 am
Is this any sort of acheivement? Just got this game, so I dont know if this is common to get this high.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Update: Started losing altitude at 1,200 km up. I'm actually quite disappointed; faulty physics at work there. The gravitational pull on something 1,200 km from the planet would be way too weak to pull me down this quick.

Escape velocity is possible, just tricky. Not as tricky as orbit, mind- in my experience I achieved escape velocity twice in my attempts to circle the damn planet.

That said, any time your distance starts getting measured in Kilometers, you're pretty damn high up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 20, 2011, 12:06:21 pm
Even if you lose 0.1m/s every real hour you haven't reached the escape velocity. It's not possible without another source of gravity (or some error on the programmers side)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2011, 12:43:11 pm
no, escape velocity is when the force of gravity decreases faster than your speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 20, 2011, 01:04:29 pm
Ya; in Kerbal, the effective escape velocity is generally just about any speed above 1000m/s at the 100,000 km mark. Thus far my max speed @100megametres is a bit over 5500m/s. Once you reach the 100Mm, you lose very little velocity and so have effectively escaped the planet's gravity so long as you still have a decent amount of speed.

As far as 1200km: this planet's radius is approximately 600km IIRC; this would mean at a distance of 1800km (600km+1200km), the distance is tripled, and so the gravity would still be 1/9 of what it is at ground level. For an actual planet the size of earth (a bit over 10 times the size), you would need to go approximately 10 times further, or 12Mm to get the same decrease to 1/9 surface gravity. Sure, gravity drops off quickly, but you must also take into account the fact that planets are freeking massive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Geen on July 20, 2011, 01:57:49 pm
Just downloaded, I got to 0.1 Gs, but then mah fuel ran out. :(

EDIT: Tried again, made it to around 120000.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 20, 2011, 02:51:53 pm
If you leave your computer and come back you'll find that you've fallen... it uses a mathematically realistic gravity model. There's always a force on you and you will be pulled back eventually. With the lack of a moon there's nothing to grab onto.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rift on July 20, 2011, 03:27:47 pm
as the gravity approaches 0, and distance reaches infinity, i would think that even the slightest horizontal motion [ie, not directly away from the planet], would negate the effect the gravity would have on the shuttle[as to, how it decreases distance], as it would be in effect, in orbit. However i possibly have no idea what i'm talking about.

Edit:
after some though, its likely what would happen is you would get closer to the planet, then fly past it, in a crazy elliptic orbit, so your distance would [over enough time] go up and down, but you would likely never collide with the planet.

Edit2: after further thought, it will infact, collide with the planet, after insane amounts or elliptic orbits, likely after the universe ended... or some equally insane amount of time, as the orbits would slowly decrease in distance overall.. just insanely insanely slowly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 03:42:14 pm
"Escape velocity" is a bit of a misnomer. You'll never fully escape the gravitational influence of the planet, but it's certainly possible to have enough velocity that you'll never return to it, regardless of what other massive objects there are in the system. The technical term is "hyperbolic orbit". There's relevant (and supposedly correct) data on the Kerbal wiki (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/index.php?title=Orbit_data_tables) for determining escape velocity at various altitudes.

Anyhow, the general mechanics are expressed by relatively simple algebraic equations which can be found on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_mechanics).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 20, 2011, 03:51:31 pm
The thing about a hyperbolic orbit is that if there's no other gravitational mass, the hyperbolic 'orbit' will become a literal orbit. It would just take an incredibly long amount of time, one which most people would never have the patience (or lifetime) to wait for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Gimhalos on July 20, 2011, 04:28:40 pm
So I played for a few hours last night. I made a giant rocket that reached over 4600 m/s at it's top speed. I ran it overnight out of curiosity. 185,120 km and climbing, still going 3.8 km/sec, and I can no longer see the earth. I think I can make it more efficient, actually. I bet I can hit 7 km/sec if I do a complete redesign.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sirian on July 20, 2011, 05:39:44 pm
According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity), it IS in fact possible to escape gravity, even with only one source of gravity in the entire universe. But yea, 10km of altitude is not enough at slow speeds. Just for comparison, our moon is around 400 000 km away from earth, and is still strongly bound (although the kerbal moon should be closer to the planet).

Mathematically speaking, it is possible to calculate the limit towards which your speed tends as you move away from the planet. if the limit is superior to 0, you have effectively reached escape velocity (but "escape speed" is more correct). The only time it's impossible (at least with normal physics) to reach escape velocity, is inside a black hole's event horizon, because you'd need to go faster than light to escape.

Also, Kerbal seem hard to escape because it has an unnatural density, so what may feel like an escape speed for earth won't always be enough here. It's like the slope is steeper or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 05:48:35 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 20, 2011, 03:51:31 pm
The thing about a hyperbolic orbit is that if there's no other gravitational mass, the hyperbolic 'orbit' will become a literal orbit. It would just take an incredibly long amount of time, one which most people would never have the patience (or lifetime) to wait for.

Hyperbolic and parabolic orbits are not closed like elliptic orbits. If you are on such an orbit and moving away from Kerbal, you will never again head towards Kerbal*. There's absolutely no need for another mass to continue pulling you away from it.

*Assuming you don't use your rocket to push you onto a different orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 20, 2011, 06:03:49 pm
You should have read under the misconception paragraph:
Quote
Escape velocity is sometimes misunderstood to be the speed a powered vehicle, such as a rocket, must reach to leave orbit and travel through outer space. The quoted escape velocity is commonly the escape velocity at a planet's surface, but it actually decreases with altitude. It is the speed above which an object will depart on a ballistic trajectory, i.e. in free-fall, and never fall back to the surface nor assume a closed orbit. Such an object is said to "escape" the gravity of the planet.
Notice escape is in quotes because you never escape gravity. Ever. You can be at one "end" of the universe and an object at the other "end" will still have an irrelevant tiny bit of gravity affecting you. The effect of gravity is inversely proportional of the square of the distance... So yeah. There's always some background gravity, just never 0.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 20, 2011, 06:09:44 pm
Yeah, in theory, you could go 10000000000000 km away, and if you let time run long enough, you'd find you'd crashed into kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 06:34:13 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 20, 2011, 06:09:44 pm
Yeah, in theory, you could go 10000000000000 km away, and if you let time run long enough, you'd find you'd crashed into kerbal.

Unless your speed relative to Kerbal is commensurate with the escape velocity of Kerbal at 1e13 km.

The thing to remember here is that escape velocity always applies; you can't just "escape" and then reduce your velocity to zero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 20, 2011, 06:38:53 pm
Nup. Can't escape. It'll slowly but surely slow you down, and bring you home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 06:47:16 pm
Once you've reached infinity. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 20, 2011, 06:53:15 pm
Quote from: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 06:34:13 pm
Quote from: breadbocks on July 20, 2011, 06:09:44 pm
Yeah, in theory, you could go 10000000000000 km away, and if you let time run long enough, you'd find you'd crashed into kerbal.

Unless your speed relative to Kerbal is commensurate with the escape velocity of Kerbal at 1e13 km.

The thing to remember here is that escape velocity always applies; you can't just "escape" and then reduce your velocity to zero.
If you had ACCELERATION, you could be unaffected. No amount of speed will ever cause you to escape gravity. Gravity will accelerate you and make your speed change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 20, 2011, 07:32:36 pm
You're all forgetting that you'll actually just end up in an extremely elliptical orbit and never actually hit the planet again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 20, 2011, 07:35:18 pm
At a certain distance, the force exerted to your ship by a body's gravity can be so minimal you can rule it out, as the time it would take to accelerate you back on to the planet would be ridiculous and in certain cases, could be countered by other gravities.

Such as how the moon's gravity doesn't overrule earth's gravity even when you have a high orbit (even tho it does cause the orbit to be elliptical).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Gimhalos on July 20, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
The escape velocity is the velocity at which an object can escape the gravitational pull of an object, i.e. make it to infinity. As far as we know, it is not possible to escape a gravitational pull (physics assumes that things have a pull on each other at infinity. This is not experimentally verified and we have not discovered the all-elusive graviton) since the distance "infinity" does not actually exist.

The confusion in this thread, I believe, is that people are mistaken on the definition of escape velocity. If your kinetic energy exceeds the potential energy FROM YOUR CURRENT POSITION TO INFINITY, you have reached the escape velocity whether or not you can actually clear the gravitational field. It's a defined, arbitrary term, not something that should be taken literally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 20, 2011, 07:44:42 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 20, 2011, 07:32:36 pm
You're all forgetting that you'll actually just end up in an extremely elliptical orbit and never actually hit the planet again.
No such thing in reality. The value required for an orbit to last forever is so precise and actually varies so much, any given orbit is always falling or escaping. It can be by a minimal amount, but it's happening.

Eg. The moon is distancing itself from us by 38mm every year.

Quote from: Gimhalos on July 20, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
The escape velocity is the velocity at which an object can escape the gravitational pull of an object, i.e. make it to infinity. As far as we know, it is not possible to escape a gravitational pull (physics assumes that things have a pull on each other at infinity. This is not experimentally verified and we have not discovered the all-elusive graviton) since the distance "infinity" does not actually exist.

The confusion in this thread, I believe, is that people are mistaken on the definition of escape velocity. If your kinetic energy exceeds the potential energy FROM YOUR CURRENT POSITION TO INFINITY, you have reached the escape velocity whether or not you can actually clear the gravitational field. It's a defined, arbitrary term, not something that should be taken literally.
We don't know about infinity either. Any age/size of the universe is hypothetical. It could be literally infinite or it could not be. Bigbang is just the most acceptable theory right now, but we all better keep an open mind.

There's no confusion really, we're just talking about literally escaping gravity. A ballistic trajectory can have a speed of no return where it will simply not come back to the planet, but that doesn't mean the planet's gravity isn't affecting you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 20, 2011, 07:48:25 pm
Quote from: Soulwynd on July 20, 2011, 07:44:42 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 20, 2011, 07:32:36 pm
You're all forgetting that you'll actually just end up in an extremely elliptical orbit and never actually hit the planet again.
No such thing in reality. The value required for an orbit to last forever is so precise and actually varies so much, any given orbit is always falling or escaping. It can be by a minimal amount, but it's happening.

Eg. The moon is distancing itself from us by 38mm every year.

Quote from: Gimhalos on July 20, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
The escape velocity is the velocity at which an object can escape the gravitational pull of an object, i.e. make it to infinity. As far as we know, it is not possible to escape a gravitational pull (physics assumes that things have a pull on each other at infinity. This is not experimentally verified and we have not discovered the all-elusive graviton) since the distance "infinity" does not actually exist.

The confusion in this thread, I believe, is that people are mistaken on the definition of escape velocity. If your kinetic energy exceeds the potential energy FROM YOUR CURRENT POSITION TO INFINITY, you have reached the escape velocity whether or not you can actually clear the gravitational field. It's a defined, arbitrary term, not something that should be taken literally.
We don't know about infinity either. Any age/size of the universe is hypothetical. It could be literally infinite or it could not be. Bigbang is just the most acceptable theory right now, but we all better keep an open mind.

There's no confusion really, we're just talking about literally escaping gravity. A ballistic trajectory can have a speed of no return where it will simply not come back to the planet, but that doesn't mean the planet's gravity isn't affecting you.
I don't personally understand why you're all discussing reality instead of kerbality and I think there's a mix of some people discussing the game's physics and some discussing real life physics. Personally I don't believe there was a big bang, I think some programmer designed everything and it's still in an alpha stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Soulwynd on July 20, 2011, 07:50:15 pm
Well, game physics are based on real physics.... Normally...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 20, 2011, 07:54:08 pm
Well, look at that conversation I stirred up!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 08:49:55 pm
Quoting myself for emphasis:

Quote from: Leyic on July 20, 2011, 03:42:14 pm
"Escape velocity" is a bit of a misnomer. You'll never fully escape the gravitational influence of the planet, but it's certainly possible to have enough velocity that you'll never return to it, regardless of what other massive objects there are in the system.

The work done by the planet on the spacecraft is the path integral of the force. The force field is constant with respect to the planet. Thus, the total energy loss due to gravity can be calculated for any given path. Assume an arbitrary path moving away from the planet, starting at the surface and ending at mathematical infinity. If the kinetic energy of the craft is greater than the energy lost following this path, then the craft will maintain positive kinetic energy, and thus positive velocity. It will never return to the planet. The point: No other massive bodies are required to "escape" (in the spatial sense) from a planet.

This is the two-body problem. It's all Newtonian physics. There's ~300 years of science backing it up. If KSP is using a non-Newtonian model, then that's another matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: breadbocks on July 20, 2011, 09:37:16 pm
But Leytic, that quote is wrong. You need to have acceleration to counter the acceleration of gravity, hands down. As long as you aren't burning fuel, you will get brought back. End of story.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 20, 2011, 09:47:34 pm
Escape velocity isn't about actually escaping the gravitational field of a planet- it is about going so fast that the rate at which gravity's strength is decreasing exceeds the rate at which gravity is pulling you towards a given body. For example, at one tick your speed will be reduced by .1, then by .01, then by .001, on into infinity. If you are already going 2001 m/s when this is happening, then effectively your speed will never fall below 2000.

Courtesy of the Kerbal Wiki (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/index.php?title=Orbital_Mechanics_for_Kerdummies#Escape_velocity).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Burnt Pies on July 20, 2011, 10:41:23 pm
Something I did while trying to get into Orbit seems to have removed the planet's atmosphere. I'm now landed and looking straight into space from 0 meters above sea level.

This is Awesome
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: alway on July 20, 2011, 11:03:32 pm
Quote from: Burnt Pies on July 20, 2011, 10:41:23 pm
Something I did while trying to get into Orbit seems to have removed the planet's atmosphere. I'm now landed and looking straight into space from 0 meters above sea level.

This is Awesome
Awesome?!? You just exterminated an entire early space-faring level civilization. Awesome doesn't even begin to describe it. :P

As for escape velocity, it is best merely to leave the descriptions to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Though monk's description is pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 21, 2011, 03:14:12 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 20, 2011, 07:43:59 am
Is this any sort of acheivement? Just got this game, so I dont know if this is common to get this high.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Update: Started losing altitude at 1,200 km up. I'm actually quite disappointed; faulty physics at work there. The gravitational pull on something 1,200 km from the planet would be way too weak to pull me down this quick.
I think I am getting better at flinging myself from Kearth!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Do you think I let the parachute go a bit too early?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: MonkeyHead on July 21, 2011, 03:16:04 pm
Thats pretty much the only downside with this game so far - ok so I can establish some impressive orbits, and land in a variety of fun methods, but theres not really anything else to do up there yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2011, 03:29:14 pm
The next logical step in development (now that most of the kinks in regular rocket science have been worked out) would be adding a/the Moon(s). Maybe some dust/asteroid rings to go with it/them. This would give players something to do other than finding increasingly intricate ways of going around in circles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 21, 2011, 03:39:35 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2011, 03:29:14 pm
The next logical step in development (now that most of the kinks in regular rocket science have been worked out) would be adding a/the Moon(s). Maybe some dust/asteroid rings to go with it/them. This would give players something to do other than finding increasingly intricate ways of going around in circles.

That's why I stopped playing till they add moons/a point. I orbited for 17 hours, and unless you want freaky orbits, game over at that point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sneakey pete on July 21, 2011, 09:30:25 pm
I've got no idea what their physics model is like, however going from a single mass to two or more is a very large step in complexity. It might take a while though. (however... when i can fly to a moon space station... and back... well christ that'd be epic wouldn't it)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on July 21, 2011, 10:08:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2011, 03:29:14 pm
The next logical step in development (now that most of the kinks in regular rocket science have been worked out) would be adding a/the Moon(s). Maybe some dust/asteroid rings to go with it/them. This would give players something to do other than finding increasingly intricate ways of going around in circles.

HarvesteR has said he's pretty set on giving planet Kerbal (he doesn't like the name "Kearth", pity) at least two moons, probably moonlet asteroids, and maybe even moonlets orbiting in the moon(s).  Just not clear when, since apparently there's a lot of engine work to do.  He's been pretty mum on whether the 0.9 update in August will include a moon to shoot for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on July 23, 2011, 03:40:10 pm
So are there any payload mods out there? I wanna put something in orbit and return, so i can look at it from the surface :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 23, 2011, 03:45:21 pm
Well, you COULD try just dropping large fuel tanks, but I still doubt you'll see them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Boksi on July 23, 2011, 06:54:44 pm
There are payload mods, such as this (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=611.0) or this (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.0)(both pages feature other parts as well), but you won't really see the explosions unless you're really close.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 24, 2011, 09:58:50 am
I'v discovered that at around 2000 km, gravity ceases to take effect and you no longer are pulled to kearth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 24, 2011, 11:23:49 pm
I just finished an hour and a half livestream of me playing this and making stupid decisions in listening to the suggestions from the audience :P
You can watch it here (http://livestre.am/ThGX).
EDIT:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2941534/KSP/screenshot24.jpg)
Uhh...  What.
EDIT2: WHAT.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have lost complete control of this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 25, 2011, 02:26:50 am
Is there a way to get fuel tanks onto radial couplers? I modded them to allow surface attachment, but they go on sideways and are always invalid (red).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 25, 2011, 04:47:43 am
Quote from: Sensei on July 25, 2011, 02:26:50 am
Is there a way to get fuel tanks onto radial couplers? I modded them to allow surface attachment, but they go on sideways and are always invalid (red).

Not directly, but you can attach them under solid boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 25, 2011, 08:47:04 am
Directly is also feasible, but since they're inherently more explosion-happy, having them wobbling around on radial connectors makes for quite a thrillride.

When they're on solid connections, though...

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot12.jpg)

And, unrelated:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot9.jpg)
Pod racer!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 25, 2011, 01:27:34 pm
I have no idea how you guys manage to do those things.
When I try building something crazy, things go haywire at launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 25, 2011, 02:03:42 pm
When I try to build normal stuff things go haywire. This might be becouse I am horrible at lineing stuff up right so stuff ends up at different heights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 25, 2011, 02:20:05 pm
If you're doing something crazy and it fails, it just wasn't crazy enough.

What we do is Just Crazy Enough To Work (http://www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyEnoughToWork).

Also, in case anyone's wondering, the proper way to set up surface-attach for fuel tanks is:

1) Open the parts.cfg in the fuelTank folder.

2) Under node definitions, add a new line "node_attach = 5.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1"

3) Change the attachment rules line to "attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0"

4) Save, close, run KSP.

The fuel tanks have an odd problem with the origin vector, so you have to make them face along the X axis, and specify offset on it as well.

When you have these tanks though, making an orbit-capable vehicle becomes almost cheatingly easy. For instance, you can slap 8 of them around a 3 meter tank, then add an engine under each. This flying barrel will be able to reach orbital speed.

edit: also, sometimes, when something you build goes haywire not at launch, but at creation (look in the log for any breakings at 00:00:00), you can fix it by disconnecting the part in question and reconnecting it again. Sometimes the physics engine just freaks out and applies undue forces to the craft, and the remove-attach process seems to fix some of these glitches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 25, 2011, 02:27:03 pm
Some, but not all.

I've had a lot of trouble with the big boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 25, 2011, 02:39:09 pm
As a rule of thumb, you should never let the large liquid fuel engines touch the ground. I've taken to constructing supporting launchpads out of connectors that hold up the rocket before launch, or at the very least prop up the vehicle on some solid boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on July 25, 2011, 02:56:47 pm
I've found that a ring of large solid boosters, each of which with a small solid underneath, to work well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: garfield751 on July 25, 2011, 07:08:39 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/hT9cx.png)

i dont need to use the SAS for Stage 6 at all. also the bottom 3 outer boosters overheat and explode. otherwise it gets the ship into space nicely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on July 25, 2011, 08:14:09 pm
I wonder how many people will have to change their ships when (some day) economics are implemented?
I mean, Parachutes can be attached to several parts now, so they can be used again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on July 25, 2011, 08:31:06 pm
Have they fixed that thing that causes stuff dropped from a radial decoupler to fly towards the center of gravity(often exploding right in front of, or even colliding with the ship)?

Because it's really making it difficult to design ICBMs and MIRVs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 25, 2011, 10:39:09 pm
Exactly how do I attach Parachutes to my engines so they can survive?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 25, 2011, 11:12:56 pm
I'm trying to create a solar sail using the parachute however it's not working too well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on July 26, 2011, 12:22:12 am
Quote from: Saint on July 25, 2011, 11:12:56 pm
I'm trying to create a solar sail using the parachute however it's not working too well.
*facepalm*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 26, 2011, 12:43:45 am
Quote from: Sensei on July 26, 2011, 12:22:12 am
Quote from: Saint on July 25, 2011, 11:12:56 pm
I'm trying to create a solar sail using the parachute however it's not working too well.
*facepalm*
I'm not sure I see a problem in Saint's post.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sneakey pete on July 26, 2011, 02:47:37 am
Don't forget to mention what mods your using guys. I see people saying things like "large solid boosters with small ones" etc. Which is all well and fair if you have them installed, but they're not part of the base game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 26, 2011, 05:19:41 am
Right now I'm using the Sunday Punch rocket parts set (by and large the most popular one, AFAICT), and a side helping of Quabit's KSP parts and the advanced decoupler shroud.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 26, 2011, 05:28:18 am
So... I just hit the ground at about 100m/s.... and survived? Somehow the Kermans dug into the ground!

(http://i53.tinypic.com/juzq7o.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 26, 2011, 08:21:49 am
Quote from: Sensei on July 26, 2011, 12:22:12 am
Quote from: Saint on July 25, 2011, 11:12:56 pm
I'm trying to create a solar sail using the parachute however it's not working too well.
*facepalm*

I'm not sure I see what you mean, I'm modding the files to create a solar sail.
So far it won't open at the set altitude of 20 thousand meters and instead it fails to open at all, I did however, get it to provide thrust when I had it opening at 5 thousand meters, but it wasn't enough to break gravitational pull, even with just the command pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 28, 2011, 01:52:37 am
I think I just created the most elliptical orbit ever.
Apokerbal at 1711K
Perikerbal at 42,311M
Yes, it's stable.
Somehow.
It only takes about two hours to complete one cycle :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: jetex1911 on July 28, 2011, 06:38:03 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 26, 2011, 05:28:18 am
So... I just hit the ground at about 100m/s.... and survived? Somehow the Kermans dug into the ground!
You sir, have just found out how Dwarves will colonize other planets when they invent rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: rawr359 on July 28, 2011, 02:44:13 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
more like everyone is running out of ideas and is waiting for updates with content
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 28, 2011, 03:48:09 pm
Quote from: rawr359 on July 28, 2011, 02:44:13 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
more like everyone is running out of ideas and is waiting for updates with content
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 12:29:51 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
I love how you have no idea what's even going on and are making assumptions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 01:29:00 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 12:29:51 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
I love how you have no idea what's even going on and are making assumptions.
Its not even at 50 pages yet, I'm seeing 18.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 01:36:15 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 01:29:00 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 12:29:51 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
I love how you have no idea what's even going on and are making assumptions.
Its not even at 50 pages yet, I'm seeing 18.

I see 57.
You probably have it set to more posts per page than everyone else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on July 29, 2011, 01:40:08 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 01:36:15 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 01:29:00 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 12:29:51 pm
Quote from: Talfryn on July 28, 2011, 12:10:32 pm
I love spirals up to 50 pages, then everyone realizes it's Orbit Offline...
I love how you have no idea what's even going on and are making assumptions.
Its not even at 50 pages yet, I'm seeing 18.

I see 57.
You probably have it set to more posts per page than everyone else.

Why would you ever set it to less than the maximum? I'd set it to 500 posts per page if I could.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Theodolus on July 29, 2011, 01:45:26 pm
The only reason to have it less than the max is if you don't know it can be changed, or you have a slow net connection. For image heavy threads it could be really useful on slow connections. But yeah, I see 18 pages too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 01:52:14 pm
Max is 50/page, btw.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: KaguroDraven on July 29, 2011, 02:11:13 pm
Quote from: Boksi on July 11, 2011, 04:55:19 am
Yeah, simple designs are often best.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just for fun I decided to remake this design, one of the best I've ever seen if you wait to fire the last engine until you're moveing below 500m/s, which should happen at about 500 Kilometers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 02:37:14 pm
I didn't set mine because I never cared about it.
Why bother.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on July 29, 2011, 03:32:55 pm
Less posts per page means that it's more obvious that there's a new post in a thread.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 03:44:16 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 29, 2011, 03:32:55 pm
Less posts per page means that it's more obvious that there's a new post in a thread.
How so?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on July 29, 2011, 04:32:26 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 29, 2011, 03:44:16 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 29, 2011, 03:32:55 pm
Less posts per page means that it's more obvious that there's a new post in a thread.
How so?

It's easier to tell the difference between 1 and 2 than 84 and 85

Then again, there IS the "new" button :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 29, 2011, 05:35:48 pm
Those who change the posts per page are in the minority, but it's just a matter of preference. I stick with the default and I find it more organized. I don't like using the new posts link and if I haven't read a topic for a while I find it easier to remember the last page I read then the last post number.

KSP really needs that update  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on July 29, 2011, 05:39:42 pm
Yeah, the thread has stagnated because there isn't that much more to do. I could try to land at KSC again, but that took almost 35 minutes. Better to just wait quietly for the update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 07:20:58 pm
I've occupied my time with finding the least explosive and most stable way to get at least 5 stages into space, any number to get to 100k distance, then 2 stages for the trip out, one for thrust to get to speed and the other to maintain the speed.
The next two stages are the return trip, brake thrust and the speed/maintain speed stage, this one is dual purpose because of gravity. The final stages is the one you use to set up your landing trajectory for landing at KSP.
The more stages that survive re-entry the better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on July 29, 2011, 09:15:55 pm
Accidentally deployed the parachute at about 500m up.  The nearest connecting part (a liquid fuel tank) blew up.  The rest of the rocket flew off to who knows where, but the command module parachuted down safely landing on the edge of the launch tower...then teetered off and blew up landing on the ground.  Poor Kerbals...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 29, 2011, 09:20:25 pm
It will be difficult but i'm almost hoping there will be no HUD's with orbit and trajectory information when the moon(s) are implimented. Eventually yes, but not at first just to see people try and fail miserably to get to them  :D. Not that I won't, but being familiar with orbiter will surely help. How to align your plane to that of the moon, finding the right amount of thrust in the correct orbital position so you end up where the moon will be (will be the most difficult part).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 29, 2011, 09:36:48 pm
The question is if the moons will orbit or if they'll be stationary. Hopefully, the former will be the case. Also, after a while, someone WILL be able to get to the moon with some kind of rocket (which will more than likely be made of custom parts designed to reach the thing through sheer force). Their problem will likely be surviving the impact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on July 29, 2011, 09:44:55 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 29, 2011, 09:20:25 pm
It will be difficult but i'm almost hoping there will be no HUD's with orbit and trajectory information when the moon(s) are implimented. Eventually yes, but not at first just to see people try and fail miserably to get to them  :D. Not that I won't, but being familiar with orbiter will surely help. How to align your plane to that of the moon, finding the right amount of thrust in the correct orbital position so you end up where the moon will be (will be the most difficult part).

I'm hoping that the game will progress such that you have a series of mission objectives, with the goal of completing them with the smallest possible budget. I'm also hoping that specialized HUD equipment will be available as parts, such that if you want to splurge on it you can have fancy telemetry data and whatnot, or if you're cutting every corner you can do without proper gauges/safety equipment/skilled crewmembers and fly by the seat of your pants.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 10:39:39 pm
I still can't get this damn large rocket to take off, it just falls apart before launch, not even able to fix that bug by removing and replacing parts.
sunday punch, why are your parts so weak.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 29, 2011, 11:14:20 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 10:39:39 pm
sunday punch, why are your parts so weak.
Probably because the connection strength isn't something he can affect?
Prop the rocket up on boosters or couplers, don't just sit it on the liquid engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 29, 2011, 11:21:06 pm
Quote from: Jay on July 29, 2011, 11:14:20 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 10:39:39 pm
sunday punch, why are your parts so weak.
Probably because the connection strength isn't something he can affect?
Prop the rocket up on boosters or couplers, don't just sit it on the liquid engines.

I have been actually, the connection always breaks on decouplers to the upper stages because decouplers are for some reason the weakest thing ever made. Tissue-paper and watered down paste weak.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 29, 2011, 11:25:49 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 29, 2011, 11:21:06 pm
I have been actually, the connection always breaks on decouplers to the upper stages because decouplers are for some reason the weakest thing ever made. Tissue-paper and watered down paste weak.
*shrug*
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2941534/KSP/screenshot36.png)
This thing gets me into an orbit easily, without dipping into the final stage tank/engine (hidden by the hollow decouplers) at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 30, 2011, 08:21:40 am
That's a LOT smaller than my rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 30, 2011, 08:49:51 am
It's possible to do quite audacious things, with just a little modding:

Spoiler: I've only allowed surface attachment for fuel tanks (click to show/hide)

I've also built a stratoplane, again, with minimal modding and the Yawmaster control module from Sunday Punch's set:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 30, 2011, 10:01:45 am
I created a long burn solid rocket for the sole purpose of getting large long distance rockets into space. without this part I had to create I would have a 30 stage rocket to do the same thing.

Reached 5000 km and then decided to turn around and return to the planet.
Travel speed was ~2km/s constantly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 30, 2011, 10:23:42 am
Hmm.

I might download some mods. Barely any parts in vanilla. Then again, I could just get orbiter...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on July 30, 2011, 11:15:04 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 30, 2011, 10:23:42 am
Hmm.

I might download some mods. Barely any parts in vanilla. Then again, I could just get orbiter...

You can't build your own rockets in orbiter and they don't explode in hilarious and fun ways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sowelu on July 30, 2011, 01:31:58 pm
I think that what I want most of all, in terms of "toys to spend my space budget on", is more delicate stuff.  Show me my velocity down to the mm/sec.  Let me adjust my velocity in tiny amounts.  Show me, in arcseconds, what angle I'm moving relative to "straight down".  Oh, and lateral thrusters would be pretty cool.

...A numeric readout of my angle would be most important of all though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 30, 2011, 01:35:49 pm
Quote from: Sowelu on July 30, 2011, 01:31:58 pm
...A numeric readout of my angle would be most important of all though.
That's what the gyroscope on the middle-bottom is.
The green circle without the X in it is your current vector.

Granted, it's not exactly numeric, but..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 30, 2011, 06:31:37 pm
A really expensive part could be a device that lets you type in numeric directions for your ship to allow pinpoint accuracy, so the OCD people can put their rocket right where they want it. Granted, most people wouldn't use it, but I'm sure there would be a small market. Especially when someone wants to fly straight to the Kerbal equivalent of Mercury (Merkerbal?) from Kerbal/Kearth/etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on July 30, 2011, 07:08:25 pm
Quote from: Saint on July 30, 2011, 11:15:04 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on July 30, 2011, 10:23:42 am
Hmm.

I might download some mods. Barely any parts in vanilla. Then again, I could just get orbiter...

You can't build your own rockets in orbiter and they don't explode in hilarious and fun ways.

You can make your own rockets and things for orbiter, it's just not part of the main game and is more like the mods people make for this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on July 30, 2011, 10:04:39 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on July 30, 2011, 07:08:25 pm
You can make your own rockets and things for orbiter, it's just not part of the main game and is more like the mods people make for this game.
You can make your own [blank] in [any game that can be modded].  It's just a significant difficulty delta, and is more like the mods people make for [any game].
:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sowelu on July 31, 2011, 06:49:47 am
Quote from: Jay on July 30, 2011, 01:35:49 pm
Quote from: Sowelu on July 30, 2011, 01:31:58 pm
...A numeric readout of my angle would be most important of all though.
That's what the gyroscope on the middle-bottom is.
The green circle without the X in it is your current vector.

Granted, it's not exactly numeric, but..
Yeah, and it drives me nuts how big a pixel is compared to a degree!  Let's see, I play at 1024x768, and ten degrees is... *screenshots* about sixteen pixels.  Yeah I want at LEAST arcminute accuracy.  Trying to fuss at whether one line is above or below another line and to what degree, based on the color of the antialiasing...Bleh!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on August 02, 2011, 12:02:36 pm
So, anyone up for reving a dying thread while the main site is migrating?
I just got a mod that allows for a special lateral decoupler. It allows for external fuel tanks :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on August 02, 2011, 03:37:04 pm
Does it really count as dying if it still gets multiple posts per day?

And can't we already mod any liquid fuel tank to side-mount?  Why should that require a special decoupler?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on August 02, 2011, 03:57:56 pm
Quote from: Stargrasper on August 02, 2011, 03:37:04 pm
Does it really count as dying if it still gets multiple posts per day?

And can't we already mod any liquid fuel tank to side-mount?  Why should that require a special decoupler?

External fuel tank. As in, having a main MASSIVE fuel tank, then having, say, 3 little fuel tanks attacked to this lateral decoupler, with engines on each of them. They use up thr big fuel tank first.

It's just nice being able to have external fuel tanks :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on August 02, 2011, 06:05:43 pm
Wouldn't it be better to use the external ones first? That way, when they empty, you can just toss them and lose weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 02, 2011, 06:09:46 pm
Quote from: Akura on August 02, 2011, 06:05:43 pm
Wouldn't it be better to use the external ones first? That way, when they empty, you can just toss them and lose weight.
But then you would also toss the engines.
That also depends on the weight ratios.
The weight of the fuel in the large tank may be more than the entire weight of the external tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dynamic on August 02, 2011, 09:10:37 pm
first time poster but have read through this whole thread. Love the game and have used this simple 3 stack of fuel cells and the 4 booster to reach space very easily don't know if its glitched but I have just let it go for the last 20 odd hours and it still is climbing (obviously ran out of fuel just as I got into orbit but the shuttle has not stopped slowing down)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/kerbalrecord.jpg/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on August 02, 2011, 09:16:01 pm
Quote from: Jay on August 02, 2011, 06:09:46 pm
Quote from: Akura on August 02, 2011, 06:05:43 pm
Wouldn't it be better to use the external ones first? That way, when they empty, you can just toss them and lose weight.
But then you would also toss the engines.
I guess I had the wrong idea. I figured the rockets are attached tot he bottom of the big tank.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Burnt Pies on August 02, 2011, 09:20:05 pm
Dynamic, the round orange fuel tanks you're using there are hugely out of balance compared to the Vanilla parts, so that's not a bug, but the result of using superior parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Dynamic on August 02, 2011, 09:48:41 pm
Quote from: Burnt Pies on August 02, 2011, 09:20:05 pm
Dynamic, the round orange fuel tanks you're using there are hugely out of balance compared to the Vanilla parts, so that's not a bug, but the result of using superior parts.
ah ok I can't wait for this game to be furthered so keen to do some missions
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 03, 2011, 05:13:36 am
The big orange tanks are actually underpowered. They contain 1500 units of fuel, compared to 500 in the vanilla ones, while their size would imply at least three times that. Volume of a cylinder being PI*radius squared*height, tripling the radius increases the volume nine-fold. And these tanks are higher as well. By my estimates (and taking the possible thicker walls into account), these things should contain no less than 6000 units of fuel.

Of course, then they'd be so heavy you'd need whole clusters of solid boosters to even get them off the ground, which is obviously inefficient. How the hell to real-life rockets take off?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on August 03, 2011, 05:19:46 am
real life rockets can't leave the ground until some of the fuel is burnt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 03, 2011, 05:39:21 am
Hard to argue with that - no rocket can take off without burning something. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on August 03, 2011, 05:52:34 am
No, I mean, it's literally too heavy to take off.

in orbiter, if you try to fly the shuttle with infinite fuel, you won't get anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on August 03, 2011, 06:00:15 am
Also, by external fuel tank, I guess it would be better to say external engines :P The engines were attached to the fuel tank, and when all the tanks were spent, I dropped the engines and tanks together, along with the parachutes on the engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: dogstile on August 03, 2011, 07:09:17 am
Left my compy on last night. Currently at 49150K

I'm gonna just leave it and see how long it takes for earth to completely disappear, shouldn't be long now
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on August 04, 2011, 12:11:26 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 03, 2011, 05:13:36 am
The big orange tanks are actually underpowered. They contain 1500 units of fuel, compared to 500 in the vanilla ones, while their size would imply at least three times that. Volume of a cylinder being PI*radius squared*height, tripling the radius increases the volume nine-fold. And these tanks are higher as well. By my estimates (and taking the possible thicker walls into account), these things should contain no less than 6000 units of fuel.

Of course, then they'd be so heavy you'd need whole clusters of solid boosters to even get them off the ground, which is obviously inefficient. How the hell to real-life rockets take off?

His images shows the spherical tanks.  You're using volume of a cylinder; you should be using volume of a sphere, which is 4/3*PI*r^3.  I see a glaring mathematical error here...

Mind that your ultimate point still stands.  If you want to talk math, please at least use the correct equation.  Vcylinder =/= Vsphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sheb on August 04, 2011, 12:24:44 pm
I think he mistook them for the large cylindrical tank. The spherical ones are over-powered, the cylindrical aren't. I already went into orbit and back with one of those sphere and a single liquid fuel engine. I still had a quarter of a tank full.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 04, 2011, 12:25:12 pm
I couldn't see the images at the time. And I was referring to Sunday Punch's three-meter fuel tanks. I don't use the spherical ones. Too much Austin Powers for my taste.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 05, 2011, 10:32:18 pm
Kerbal Space Program 0.9 EXPERIMENTAL 1
http://www.mediafire.com/file/6qo95ajtji29txw/KSP_win_0_9_x1.zip

Quote
    Stages are now persistent when manually edited.
    Stages are now stored in relative values. This means they’re now smarter
    Parts can now specify their preferred relative stage though the cfg
    Editing the staging sequence now creates Undo states.
    The Debug Console can now be opened in the loading screen to debug load problems
    Stages can now be manually created and, when empty, deleted
    Stages are now represented as groups with parts inside them, instead of just separated by indicators
    The staging stack now scrolls manually using the mousewheel (when mouseing over it)
    Icons in the staging stack can now be multiple selected and moved as a group
    Whole stages can now be dragged and repositioned
    Stages can now be reset manually through a reset button
    Empty stages delete themselves in flight
    Active parts in previous stages move up to the current stage.
    Parts on the VAB list will now display their stats when hovered over.
    The tooltip for parts in the VAB will no longer go lower than the screen
    Holding shift while selecting a part in the VAB will now select the pod so the whole ship can be moved
    Parts now have an ActivatesEvenIfDisconnected parameter on the cfg to allow them to be activated after jettisoning
    The VS Gauge now uses a log scale, to allow greater precision with small values
    The Strut Connector. A compound part to create physical linkages between any 2 parts
    Parachutes now have a ‘useAGL’ parameter. If that’s enabled, it will deploy when it reaches deploy altitude from ground level
    Symmetrically placed Icons are grouped into a single icon

BugFixes:

    Fixed a bug that caused parts to activate out of sequence sometimes.
    The scroll wheel is no longer read if the application is unfocused.
    Staging lock is now preserved if the application is unfocused and refocused.
    Fixed the MET clock, which would loop back to 00:00:00 when a mission went on for longer than 24 hours (I’m amazed someone found it )
    Changed the debug console key to Alt + the key left of 1. It would interfere with the throttle controls in flight.
    Fixed parachutes not deploying if not set to the last stage. (they can still deploy when jettisoned)
    Fixed a silent error when parts set an explosion potential higher than 1.0
    Eliminated the jitter on the VS gauge
    Changed the physical attachments between parts again, so the stack is less wobbly overall

E: Holy crap, it is a TON smarter about stages.
E2: However, it seems to be mostly incompatible with mods from previous versions.  Don't install on top of your existing copy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on August 06, 2011, 12:55:21 am
I was trying to get parts with an explosion potential of greater than 1.0 earlier; they became totally invincible. Now I can finally make my warheads!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2011, 06:40:42 am
I thought ExplosionPotential was simply how likely the parts were to blow up if hit? What does setting this to above 1 have to do with warheads?

Also, struts are awesome.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot0.jpg)

Can you believe this thing actually flies straight up until the third stage? (well, straight up like a drill, but whatever)
The only reason it's exploding after the second stage is because the third stage fires all the remaining boosters simultaneously. I'm still setting up the stages. Which, I should say, are almost more awesome than struts now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Charmander on August 06, 2011, 07:14:29 am
New loading screen?

Yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on August 06, 2011, 07:53:50 am
Quote from: Jay on August 05, 2011, 10:32:18 pm
It seems to be mostly incompatible with mods from previous versions.  Don't install on top of your existing copy.

I'm not having any problems with that. Simply put the new version in its own directory, then copy over your old Parts directory (without overwriting existing files). Ta-dah!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 06, 2011, 10:43:22 am
Quote from: Sordid on August 06, 2011, 07:53:50 am
Quote from: Jay on August 05, 2011, 10:32:18 pm
It seems to be mostly incompatible with mods from previous versions.  Don't install on top of your existing copy.

I'm not having any problems with that. Simply put the new version in its own directory, then copy over your old Parts directory (without overwriting existing files). Ta-dah!
Have you used struts yet?
They hard-lock the game if they're attached to older parts when you launch.
E: I looked at the files for the new parts, and I'm not really seeing any particular reason for the above to be happening, but you can't really report any bugs that you find with them loaded, because there's no telling where they came from.  It was stable for me when I installed it on its own, not so much when I put custom parts in.  Whatever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2011, 11:18:40 am
Not sure where you're seeing it, I've got struts attaching to Sunday Punch's parts just fine.

If the "hard-lock" you're experiencing is when you try to launch the vehicle, it's a general strut problem. Just try to reload it and relaunch, it should work. It happens whenever there's a lot struts at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 06, 2011, 11:57:20 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2011, 11:18:40 am
Not sure where you're seeing it, I've got struts attaching to Sunday Punch's parts just fine.

If the "hard-lock" you're experiencing is when you try to launch the vehicle, it's a general strut problem. Just try to reload it and relaunch, it should work. It happens whenever there's a lot struts at once.
Bluh bluh, I never had it happen until I put in custom parts, and I was doing a ton of stuff with them to test the limits.
Oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on August 06, 2011, 02:48:42 pm
It's freezing up on me without using custom parts, and it's only when struts are on the design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on August 06, 2011, 03:18:56 pm
How exactly are struts placed? I can only get a nub.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on August 06, 2011, 03:32:13 pm
Click on first piece, click on second piece. Problems with it are that you cannot rotate when you're placinf the second endpoint, and the second endpoint doesn't snap to the second piece anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on August 07, 2011, 03:17:01 am
Just got back to playing this, and this may be the closest I've been to orbit. Purely vanilla parts, too.
35200 meters, travelling 2362 m/s travelling 90 degrees (that's East) to avoid the poles making the instruments flip out. 18 minutes into the flight
I currently have one liquid fuel tank and engine I've been using to make corrections, and eventually to start re-entry.
Bill and Bob are constantly going from freaking out to being totally calm, and Jebediah knows what's really going on =)
Unfortunately I'm tired and want some sleep, so I'm going to re-enter sooner than I want, still have a little less than half a fuel tank, too.

---

Okay, mission results. 35 minutes total (I started re-entry at 30 minutes so it took 5 minutes total for that)

3,783,684 meters of ground traveled

I'm not sure if that's good or not. Perhaps with some mods (and more time) I'd be able to do better? At least now I know what to aim for when I want to do an orbit. (someone posted numbers up earlier but it's probably going to be a pain to find them)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on August 07, 2011, 03:25:13 am
Quote from: OzyTheSage on August 07, 2011, 03:17:01 am
Just got back to playing this, and this may be the closest I've been to orbit. Purely vanilla parts, too.
35200 meters, travelling 2362 m/s travelling 90 degrees (that's East) to avoid the poles making the instruments flip out. 18 minutes into the flight
I currently have one liquid fuel tank and engine I've been using to make corrections, and eventually to start re-entry.
Bill and Bob are constantly going from freaking out to being totally calm, and Jebediah knows what's really going on =)
Unfortunately I'm tired and want some sleep, so I'm going to re-enter sooner than I want, still have a little less than half a fuel tank, too.

---

Okay, mission results. 35 minutes total (I started re-entry at 30 minutes so it took 5 minutes total for that)

3,783,684 meters of ground traveled

I'm not sure if that's good or not. Perhaps with some mods (and more time) I'd be able to do better? At least now I know what to aim for when I want to do an orbit. (someone posted numbers up earlier but it's probably going to be a pain to find them)
35km up and 2350 m/s of horizontal speed should be perfect for orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on August 07, 2011, 04:37:08 pm
Aaaand there go the Kerbal forums again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 07, 2011, 06:22:58 pm
My record for highest altitude is 433,209 meters, I could have kept going but decidedto turn around and bring my boys back home, I haven't been able to get into orbit yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on August 07, 2011, 06:52:34 pm
If you're at 433km, you're probably able to get into orbit, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 07, 2011, 08:08:20 pm
I could have I just screwed it up. Got my first orbit, over a million meters of land distance covered. It was still a failure though, as I landed in a mountain 500 feet above sea level. Damn you parachute!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 08, 2011, 01:16:00 am
Getting into orbit?  Pah, that's monkey business.

Breaking the game is where it's at --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEd28puWenE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: cerapa on August 08, 2011, 11:34:29 am
Why did I not try this game out sooner?

My first attempt at my own design resulted in the shuttle instantly flying exactly into the launch tower thingy.

Then I tested out a liquid fuel rocket, flew straight into space. Added another fuel tank and 3 boosters for takeoff. After that I tested it out, saved and made a new ship with the same things, except having two stages of 3 boosters. Afterwards I flew up with it, absolutely no problems, with the exception of one.
I had forgotten to put a decoupler between the command pod and the liquid fuel engine.
This meant that the engine and parachute activated at the same time, making the shuttle spin out of control. I stabilized the ship and landed facing straight up, the engine exploded when I hit the ground, but the astronauts lived to see another day.

Gonna try going into orbit with the design later, with a decoupler added obviously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on August 08, 2011, 11:56:53 am
None of my designs have parachutes on the command module.
I like my powered landings :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 08, 2011, 01:25:49 pm
So, this time, I tried something significantly larger than my other designs.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This thing takes off like a snail, but it gets up...  eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fishbreath on August 08, 2011, 01:54:30 pm
Ha. You should see my biggest design. The first two stages are 16 SRBs each. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Peewee on August 08, 2011, 03:17:21 pm
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rd1l1a1stedl87q/KSP_win_0_9_x2.zip
New experimental release out, dunno what's changed since x1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 08, 2011, 03:26:19 pm
Quote from: Peewee on August 08, 2011, 03:17:21 pm
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rd1l1a1stedl87q/KSP_win_0_9_x2.zip
New experimental release out, dunno what's changed since x1.
Quote from: 0.9 Experimental Release 2 Discussion Thread
Known Bugs on 0.9X1:

* some icons not being grouped correctly according to part state

* loading sometimes crash
- removed struts would not clear their references from the parent part, causing null references in the craft file.
- Fixed

* Game hangs for a few seconds if selecting/placing a large number of parts at once.
- A method was being called much more insistently than it needed to be.

* staging sometimes resets itself
- Improved staging code for more persistent staging.

* Undo/Redo may cause struts to lose targets
- Improved strut code for more stable targets.

* symmetry bug causes game to crash sometimes (from 0.8.5)

* SAS can cause pod to wobble if activated with nothing more than the pod
- Pod parameters were poorly tuned.
- Fixed

* Debug console key not consistent with different keyboard layouts
- Changed console key (yet again) to Alt+F2.
- Console is working again.
- Fixed.
So, quite a bit of bugfixing. Also, added click->part offsets in VAB, so that parts don't jump around when you select them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2011, 04:15:57 pm
Finally tried this out. Fun game! Although I think it'll be a bit more fun once it gets further along in development.

Haven't quite gotten into a stable orbit yet, but I've made some rockets that should be able to handle it. I just need to get better at actually controlling them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 08, 2011, 04:36:56 pm
I can't wait until you'll have to hire crew and do research, and have the option to do missions. I hope they go through with that stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Simmura McCrea on August 08, 2011, 04:38:35 pm
I just hope they keep in a sandbox mode for pissing about. Because as much fun as making it to 100km out is, making ludicrous rockets that blow up all the time is still fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on August 09, 2011, 08:38:44 am
I don't bother with orbit because it's an annoying concept to me still due to lack of instruments.
I'd rather spend time doing something amazingly stupid or difficult.
Upside down rocket reaching 300,000 m or greater
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 09, 2011, 11:10:26 am
0.9 Experimental 3
http://www.mediafire.com/?t9pabg7dx92vamd
Changelog: This, I guess...  There isn't one that's properly official; this is the list of bugs from x2
Quote
* Struts could cause the game to crash if they didn't find their targets
* Alt+copying parts inside grouped icons would eventually lead to a crash
* Heavily modified staging sequences would sometimes fire out of order
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 09, 2011, 12:11:49 pm
What's the escape velocity of the Kerbal planet? Because it's feeling like my rocket is heading there...current heading is 1.6km/s at 45 degrees up...1200km altitude and counting...is gaining around 1km altitude / sec...and only just a very little fuel left...might not be enough for reentry burn...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on August 09, 2011, 12:21:46 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 09, 2011, 12:11:49 pm
What's the escape velocity of the Kerbal planet? Because it's feeling like my rocket is heading there...current heading is 1.6km/s at 45 degrees up...1200km altitude and counting...is gaining around 1km altitude / sec...and only just a very little fuel left...might not be enough for reentry burn...

Escape velocity depends on your height- after consulting this chart (https://gist.github.com/1073201), at 1200 km, orbital velocity is 1400.40 m/s, and escape velocity is 1980.46 m/s. This chart does assume horizontal/vertical velocities, however- you almost certainly aren't at escape velocity, but you may be on a hell of an elliptical orbit. If you wait for your altitude to top out, you'll know your exact horizontal speed and be able to figure out whether you've made orbit.

Although if escape is what you're after, you can try to slingshot around the planet on your way back down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on August 09, 2011, 01:19:48 pm
Edit: Nevermind. >:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 09, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
Has anybody else gotten stuck slingshotting past the planet? My ship won't stop it keeps gaining altitude, and then (in orbit) lowering, just to go past the planet and repeat the proccess, I've let it run for the past two ours (while doing other stuff), but I finally just abandoned it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 02:57:05 pm
Quote from: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 09, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
Has anybody else gotten stuck slingshotting past the planet? My ship won't stop it keeps gaining altitude, and then (in orbit) lowering, just to go past the planet and repeat the proccess, I've let it run for the past two ours (while doing other stuff), but I finally just abandoned it.

Sounds like a fairly stable elliptical orbit to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 09, 2011, 02:58:34 pm
I ran out of fuel getting into it, and so they were stuck in it it forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 09, 2011, 05:59:47 pm
@Greatorder, what altitude are you trying to get into orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on August 09, 2011, 08:15:32 pm
Am I the only one that actually uses a slingshot orbit to launch into space instead of just going straight up with rockets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on August 09, 2011, 08:40:51 pm
Quote from: Saint on August 09, 2011, 08:15:32 pm
Am I the only one that actually uses a slingshot orbit to launch into space instead of just going straight up with rockets?

What are you, a slanty-eyed elf?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on August 09, 2011, 08:53:01 pm
Because Jay didn't stop in to tell us yet...

KSP 0.9X4 is available.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0qpyzjwel0v7p39/KSP_win_0_9_x4.zip
Quote
New on 0.9X4:
* Added an input mapping for the Precision Controls Toggle
* Tweaked the settings UI graphics a bit
* Changed attachment mode to the previous one, since the new one was causing stability problems in flight

Bug Fixes on X4:
* Fixed a problem with the symmetry that could cause the game to crash sometimes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: MasterFancyPants on August 09, 2011, 10:00:15 pm
Is it possible to escape the planet? I got to 3000km and started falling again. I guess it does make since though, since your ship and Curth are the only two things that have mass in the Kerbalverse.  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on August 09, 2011, 10:22:02 pm
Escape velocity is very much possible- the topic was covered exhaustively a few pages back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: klingon13524 on August 10, 2011, 02:08:48 am
I've been playing for about a week before i saw this thread. 8)

PROTIP: Try installing a partpack or five once you get bored with the default components. Here's a load of them; http://www.kerbalspacerepository.com/ (http://www.kerbalspacerepository.com/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 10, 2011, 02:49:47 am
Anyone know how to mod things for this game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rakonas on August 10, 2011, 07:00:55 am
Has anyone modded in nuclear warheads yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: klingon13524 on August 10, 2011, 11:01:44 am
Quote from: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 10, 2011, 02:49:47 am
Anyone know how to mod things for this game?
If you mean as in installing custom parts, then It's quite simple. Download and extract the parts you want to add, then drag them (Not the entire folder, just the sub-folders.) into the parts folder in the KSP folder in the KSP folder. Folderception.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 10, 2011, 12:04:09 pm
At what altitude does the parachute really works? I deploy it at 3km and the capsule crash-landed because it's landing on the mountain at 600m above sea level...damn...and that flight was a successful swingby in eliptical orbit too....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 10, 2011, 12:12:26 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 10, 2011, 12:04:09 pm
At what altitude does the parachute really works? I deploy it at 3km and the capsule crash-landed because it's landing on the mountain at 600m above sea level...damn...and that flight was a successful swingby in eliptical orbit too....
500m above sea level.
In 0.9, it is upgraded to use a raytrace.
500m above ground level.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 10, 2011, 03:05:04 pm
@Klingon, thanks but I was wondering how to make ship parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 10, 2011, 03:31:12 pm
Quote from: Urist Mcinternetuser on August 10, 2011, 03:05:04 pm
@Klingon, thanks but I was wondering how to make ship parts.
DAE or OBJ models + PNG textures + part.cfg (there's not really any documentation on that apart from what's in the existing stuff) + folder => part
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 10, 2011, 04:09:51 pm
Seems I didn't quite grasp the tutorial. I have a detacher, a tri...thing that allows me to have 3 solid rockets, 3 more detachers connected to 3 more solid rockets, yet when I start the launch, after the first rockets are used up and I press space, instead of the first detachers working, it skips everything and goes to the detacher to the main pod.

It is built like this.

1) main pod and parachute

2) detacher and tri-thing

3) 3 rockets

4) 3 detachers

5) 3 more rockets.


All the rockets and detachers are in the right spots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on August 10, 2011, 04:32:33 pm
The tri thing isn't a detacher.

There's also bugs in the experimental release, with stages going out of order.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 10, 2011, 05:33:45 pm
Quote from: Sensei on August 10, 2011, 04:32:33 pm
The tri thing isn't a detacher.

There's also bugs in the experimental release, with stages going out of order.

Yes, which is why it is attached to a detacher....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 10, 2011, 08:37:13 pm
Quote from: Sensei on August 10, 2011, 04:32:33 pm
The tri thing isn't a detacher.

There's also bugs in the experimental release, with stages going out of order.
Those were far worse in 0.8.5.  And you can actually fix them now.
E: Different staging bugs, I suppose, but the ones in 0.8.5 were worse.
Just pay attention to where it stages your stuff, and you'll notice the problem, in 0.9.
In 0.8.5, it would completely randomly break the order without any sort of indication.

In other news, 0.9 X5
http://www.mediafire.com/?4rx1d9u3pxp2pp3
Quote
==================================== v0.9.0X5 ================================================

New:
* Parachutes can no longer deploy in a vaccuum (they wait until there is some atmosphere to open)
* Added staging stack scrolling through the Home and End keys
* Added key mappings for Zoom In/Out, Scroll View Up/Down (VAB) and Scroll Icons Up/Down
* Added key mappings to rotate the camera

Bug Fixes:
* Fixed the G meter spiking up towards infinity at large distances.
* Fixed some more details with the settings screen
* Changed the layout of the input mapping screen
* Fixed a problem with the sound loading system, that wouldn't load custom sounds
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vertigon on August 10, 2011, 09:24:24 pm
(http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/WhiteShock09/ksp.png)

One of my best flights so far in terms of keeping it straight and speedy. I also just realized I'm still playing the old version :P

Update: My kerbals finally landed after an hour, I didn't want to keep them in space forever :<
Of course, they landed 300 km off course. Zoomed out all the way, I can't see any land. At all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 02:03:22 am
Quote from: Jay on August 10, 2011, 12:12:26 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 10, 2011, 12:04:09 pm
At what altitude does the parachute really works? I deploy it at 3km and the capsule crash-landed because it's landing on the mountain at 600m above sea level...damn...and that flight was a successful swingby in eliptical orbit too....
500m above sea level.
In 0.9, it is upgraded to use a raytrace.
500m above ground level.
Wait, what? I WAS playing .9x4...why didn't it work? Damnit...still means landing on a mountain is a very bad idea...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 11, 2011, 02:29:50 am
Yes, landing on a mountain is a bad idea, but mostly because of the slope. For whatever reason, you're more likely to blow up when landing on a slope, just rolling down a slope may be enough to get you to blow up.

Btw, did anyone try using capsule-mobiles yet? The gyros on those capsules seem to be good enough to let them roll along the ground easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 03:57:52 am
Although the problem I have is not because of the capsule rolling, it's the parachute not functioning properly, since it won't slow the capsule down until it hit some height, which some mountain is above of...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on August 11, 2011, 04:23:28 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 11, 2011, 02:29:50 am
Yes, landing on a mountain is a bad idea, but mostly because of the slope. For whatever reason, you're more likely to blow up when landing on a slope, just rolling down a slope may be enough to get you to blow up.

Btw, did anyone try using capsule-mobiles yet? The gyros on those capsules seem to be good enough to let them roll along the ground easily.

I've done it, but steering is an issue.

a solid booster under the capsule isn't quite cylindrical enough to go in a straight line, but you can go rather well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Supercharazad on August 11, 2011, 06:01:55 am
I used the SASs as wheels :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 11, 2011, 06:19:40 am
So what is a good altitude to reach? And can you get there by spamming liquid engines and wings?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Peewee on August 11, 2011, 06:59:30 am
Well it's possible to orbit anywhere above ~34.5km, so try for that, and yes to the engines, probably no to the wings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on August 11, 2011, 07:16:29 am
Quote from: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 03:57:52 am
Although the problem I have is not because of the capsule rolling, it's the parachute not functioning properly, since it won't slow the capsule down until it hit some height, which some mountain is above of...

You can simply edit the part.cfg of the chute and increase that altitude, you know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 11, 2011, 01:18:48 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 03:57:52 am
Although the problem I have is not because of the capsule rolling, it's the parachute not functioning properly, since it won't slow the capsule down until it hit some height, which some mountain is above of...
Already fixed in 0.9, like I already said.

Kerbal Space Program 0.9 EXPERIMENTAL 6
http://www.mediafire.com/file/6b74seboyjrls3z/KSP_win_0_9_x6.zip
Quote
Bug Fixes on 0.9X6:
* Fixed a problem with the input settings screen on low resolutions
* Set minimum resolution to 800x600
* Fixed an oversight on our part that would prevent the fullscreen setting from being saved.
* Fixed some parts that were out of date on the distribution
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 11:45:04 pm
Quote from: Jay on August 11, 2011, 01:18:48 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 03:57:52 am
Although the problem I have is not because of the capsule rolling, it's the parachute not functioning properly, since it won't slow the capsule down until it hit some height, which some mountain is above of...
Already fixed in 0.9, like I already said.
And I did say that it's not functioning for me when I'm playing 0.9...
Anyway, I'll try .9x6 to see if that's fixed or not...if I'm lucky enough to land on mountain again that is...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 11, 2011, 11:48:41 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 11:45:04 pm
Quote from: Jay on August 11, 2011, 01:18:48 pm
Quote from: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 03:57:52 am
Although the problem I have is not because of the capsule rolling, it's the parachute not functioning properly, since it won't slow the capsule down until it hit some height, which some mountain is above of...
Already fixed in 0.9, like I already said.
And I did say that it's not functioning for me when I'm playing 0.9...
Bluh, bluh, I missed that.  In any case...
Make sure you've actually updated the parts, as that is controlled via a setting in the parachute CFG.
Obviously make sure that you're not using a custom parachute that isn't updated, or make sure you do the updating yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 11:50:16 pm
Oh thanks...but I'm only using official parts from .9x3...still will try to update though...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 11, 2011, 11:53:24 pm
Do you unlock extra parts or something? I hear people talking about parts I haven't seen and all I have are 1 liquid rocket, 1 solid rocket, 1 fuel, the pod with the built in SAS and no other pod, 2 types of wings, 2 types of detachers (is there any difference between the 2?) and the tri-thing. And the parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 11, 2011, 11:55:35 pm
Nah...I'm only use those basic parts you've listed...
The difference between 2 types of decoupler is one is detach from bottom and another one is on the side...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 11, 2011, 11:59:27 pm
Quote from: Micro102 on August 11, 2011, 11:53:24 pm
Do you unlock extra parts or something? I hear people talking about parts I haven't seen and all I have are 1 liquid rocket, 1 solid rocket, 1 fuel, the pod with the built in SAS and no other pod, 2 types of wings, 2 types of detachers (is there any difference between the 2?) and the tri-thing. And the parachute.
Modding, bro.
There's tons of custom parts on the official forums.
Just be wary that they're all for 0.8.5 so far, as far as I know, so they won't be fully supported in 0.9 (like the parachute ground raytracer...)

Decouplers: One is vertical, one is horizontal.  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on August 12, 2011, 12:11:59 am
You know, I want 45 degree decoupler...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Peewee on August 12, 2011, 11:21:47 pm
So put a few decouplers chained together, you get the same effect.

Also, 0.9.0 is out.
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 13, 2011, 01:45:28 am
So..... I managed to get  over 160000m before running out of fuel, and had a velocity of over 2500, I am wondering if that is enough to reach escape velocity, as I am still waiting for it to slow down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: onyhow on August 13, 2011, 02:23:19 am
Great...even in 0.9 you still can't land on dark side of the planet...and my last 3 landings including the mountain crash just have to land on the dark side...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Micro102 on August 13, 2011, 03:29:59 am
Final results, 2478291 M reached in 1 hour, I landed, never reached escape velocity :(

63.4 G force...They should be dead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on August 13, 2011, 05:48:32 am
Damn, they want money now? I guess since it's only $7.00 I can pay for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Xinvoker on August 13, 2011, 06:34:29 am
Quote from: inteuniso on August 13, 2011, 05:48:32 am
Damn, they want money now? I guess since it's only $7.00 I can pay for it.

Hardly.

Quote
Donations from 7.00 USD up will automatically be counted as a pre-order, and you’ll already have a valid account to download the first fully payware version, which is due in a few months.
In the meantime, we’ll continue to update the free version of KSP. Then, the last free version will remain forever available as a demo

So it will be free during the alpha, which will be at least a few months as they say. In the meantime, you can pre-order, or not.

The download button is under the preorder button on the same page, in case you missed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on August 14, 2011, 01:01:24 pm
Is it just me or is the game getting dramatically slower with each update? When this topic was first posted and I downloaded it the different screens would load almost instantly, but now it's a 10 minute wait from initial loading to getting a simple rocket on the launchpad.  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 14, 2011, 04:23:36 pm
Quote from: BloodBeard on August 14, 2011, 01:01:24 pm
Is it just me or is the game getting dramatically slower with each update? When this topic was first posted and I downloaded it the different screens would load almost instantly, but now it's a 10 minute wait from initial loading to getting a simple rocket on the launchpad.  ???
With updates?  Nope, haven't seen that, at all.
However, adding mods does dramatically increase the loading time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on August 14, 2011, 04:30:04 pm
Quote from: inteuniso on August 13, 2011, 05:48:32 am
Damn, they want money now? I guess since it's only $7.00 I can pay for it.

Yeah, $7 is a real killer. It's not like there are any other games out there that cost more than that.  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on August 14, 2011, 04:47:07 pm
Having a rocket scream towards the planet, Jebidiah laughing his head off while his brothers scream theirs off, then trying to flip it over and use solid-fuel boosters to brake for landing, something goes wrong, everything falls apart, stuff starts exploding, and poor Jeb finally realizing something has happened and the look of sheer terror on his face seconds before the command module ploughs into the ground. That's worth $7.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Stargrasper on August 14, 2011, 04:57:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on August 14, 2011, 04:30:04 pm
Quote from: inteuniso on August 13, 2011, 05:48:32 am
Damn, they want money now? I guess since it's only $7.00 I can pay for it.

Yeah, $7 is a real killer. It's not like there are any other games out there that cost more than that.  ::)

When you're broke enough that you really only get to play free games and use freely available internet, $7 becomes a killer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on August 14, 2011, 05:13:04 pm
Eitherway, you don't have to pay for it yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on August 14, 2011, 06:54:48 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on August 14, 2011, 05:13:04 pm
Eitherway, you don't have to pay for it yet.

You won't ever have to anyway, the last free version is the demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BigD145 on August 14, 2011, 09:19:51 pm
Quote from: Stargrasper on August 14, 2011, 04:57:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on August 14, 2011, 04:30:04 pm
Quote from: inteuniso on August 13, 2011, 05:48:32 am
Damn, they want money now? I guess since it's only $7.00 I can pay for it.

Yeah, $7 is a real killer. It's not like there are any other games out there that cost more than that.  ::)

When you're broke enough that you really only get to play free games and use freely available internet, $7 becomes a killer.

You've never skipped a a few meals to save some bucks, have you?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Jay on August 15, 2011, 08:06:11 pm
Huh.  Retrograde burn, with a side order of unpowered landing.  Standard fare for my orbiters, but this one...
This one wanted to be different.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on August 15, 2011, 08:13:59 pm
...is it floating slightly?

In any event, awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Chattox on August 16, 2011, 01:08:01 pm
This game is ungodly amounts of fun. How often is it updated?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2011, 01:11:09 pm
Hmm. Been trying to register on their forums so I can pre-order it, but I never seem to get an activation e-mail. And, yes, I checked my spam folder. Nothing. I had it send another, but still nothing.

Anyone else have this issue?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Saint on August 16, 2011, 01:15:33 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on August 16, 2011, 01:11:09 pm
Hmm. Been trying to register on their forums so I can pre-order it, but I never seem to get an activation e-mail. And, yes, I checked my spam folder. Nothing. I had it send another, but still nothing.

Anyone else have this issue?
I had to wait 3-4 days for the email to come, if it doesn't by then post on the forums about it, there's a threat in announcments about it.
I posted on the 3rd day after my purchase.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2011, 01:23:20 pm
Ah, so they're slow about it. Good to know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 08, 2011, 09:30:41 am
for those intereted, the new update brings some fixes and a boatload of awesome in the form of controllable winglets!

now shuttles are almost a possibility, using custom parts like the one from the c7 aviation pack
(http://ksp.victorbjelkholm.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/2011-07-15_2121.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on September 08, 2011, 03:33:50 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 08, 2011, 09:30:41 am
for those intereted, the new update brings some fixes and a boatload of awesome in the form of controllable winglets!

now shuttles are almost a possibility, using custom parts like the one from the c7 aviation pack
(http://ksp.victorbjelkholm.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/2011-07-15_2121.png)

fuck yes!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on September 08, 2011, 06:25:05 pm
Oooh, fancy. I may have to boot this up again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: olemars on September 11, 2011, 04:30:15 pm
Is the extra parts pack in the OP still good or is there a better one around? I had a look on the Kerbal Wiki, and there are part packs available, so many in fact that I don't know which to choose...

(also preordered for $15, this thing is awesome)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ozyton on September 11, 2011, 04:38:29 pm
Quote from: changelog
Joystick Support

Finally

Also, for those who have Macs:

Quote from: changelog
A working Mac OSX version!

Quote from: olemars on September 11, 2011, 04:30:15 pm
Is the extra parts pack in the OP still good or is there a better one around? I had a look on the Kerbal Wiki, and there are part packs available, so many in fact that I don't know which to choose...

Browse around The Repository (http://www.kerbalspacerepository.com/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: McTraveller on September 11, 2011, 09:02:52 pm
Quote from: OzyTheSage on September 11, 2011, 04:38:29 pm
Finally

Also, for those who have Macs:

Quote from: changelog
A working Mac OSX version!

Wait, What!?!?  I had basically given up on this, because I couldn't justify continued use of my work computer for this.  My free time is now ruined... ruined I say!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 12, 2011, 05:11:54 am
Quote from: olemars on September 11, 2011, 04:30:15 pm
Is the extra parts pack in the OP still good or is there a better one around? I had a look on the Kerbal Wiki, and there are part packs available, so many in fact that I don't know which to choose...

(also preordered for $15, this thing is awesome)

those are the one I use, because they're more or less balanced with the standard parts. Beware that lots of addons equals to an extremely long loading time.

c7 flight pack:
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=1172.0

wings, fuselage, landing gears and controllable ailerons. joystick recommended.

wobbly rockets
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.0

engines, tanks, decouplers that cover those ugly engines and such, going up in size up to three meters diameter.

silisko industries pack
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=1109.0

engines, specially boosters, in various size and with various adapters; struts, nosecones and some payload satellite to toy with.

capt slug assorted hardware
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2251.0
lot of stuff in different mini packs; don't miss the the payload fairing set

capt slug radial chute
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=816.0

it's not in the assorted hardware thread; a radial chute that is very useful for slowing down spaceplanes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: olemars on September 12, 2011, 05:47:26 am
Wonderful, thank you! Just what I needed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Duuvian on September 12, 2011, 06:51:26 am
This looks pretty cool, I might give it a try. I have an aviator joystick to boot. I suppose adding rocket-ship designer/pilot to one's resume couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 12, 2011, 08:08:51 am
there is this thread about spaceplane projects that (mostly) work

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2421.0

I'l leave it there as it's quite hard to balance a plane right at first. (also, burning fuel changes the center of mass adding complexity to something already quite hard to do)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: olemars on September 12, 2011, 11:14:22 am
I'm tempted to mod in an ion/hall effect engine, but I suspect it's already been done considering how prolific the Kerbal community seems to be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on September 12, 2011, 03:40:06 pm
Sooo, anyone up for some good old fashioned dogfighting?

(http://img.ie/72226.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on September 12, 2011, 03:50:51 pm
Quote from: Sordid on September 12, 2011, 03:40:06 pm
Sooo, anyone up for some good old fashioned dogfighting?

Oh my God.  Pack downloaded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on September 12, 2011, 03:58:52 pm
That is just epic. I can't wait until we can recolor parts and add decals, god knows someone's making the Red Baron.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on September 12, 2011, 07:24:39 pm
And then figure out how to make rockets out of solid fuel engines and detachers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sensei on September 12, 2011, 07:27:21 pm
I've tried that, they always spin around because of the detacher frame...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2011, 01:14:13 am
when it spin around for no reason (as in: you're using the symmetric construction and no tricouplers as those are bugged) then usually you have two components too close that are considered colliding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on September 13, 2011, 09:49:42 am
I hope there will be a 3d first person cockpit view in a future release, imagine watching Bob fetching for a cup of cofee, or Jebediah turning up his MP3 player full of heavy metal.
This cockpit would be like a 3d cockpit in orbiter, where you can click stuff to make stuff happen, like stage seperation, all kinds of displays and BLINKING LIGHTS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on September 13, 2011, 09:54:55 am
Quote from: DrPoo on September 13, 2011, 09:49:42 am
I hope there will be a 3d first person cockpit view in a future release, imagine watching Bob fetching for a cup of cofee, or Jebediah turning up his MP3 player full of heavy metal.
This cockpit would be like a 3d cockpit in orbiter, where you can click stuff to make stuff happen, like stage seperation, all kinds of displays and BLINKING LIGHTS.

And the occasional "I wonder what THIS botton does.."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NRDL on September 13, 2011, 10:01:50 am
Just recently got this fun ( actually it should be FUN ) game, I still have yet to achieve orbit.  I'm not the best designer, or the best pilot, anyone got any tips and designs for a vanilla user? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2011, 10:27:52 am
Quote from: NRDL on September 13, 2011, 10:01:50 am
Just recently got this fun ( actually it should be FUN ) game, I still have yet to achieve orbit.  I'm not the best designer, or the best pilot, anyone got any tips and designs for a vanilla user?

start with something simple, this can get you in orbit with no problems:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

you go up until 30k then move at 45deg and keep going that way for a while. then get at 90deg and keep pushing speed. once your vertical speed is 0, read your speed: if it's over a certain threshold, then you're in orbit!

you can find more information about what speed you need at what altitude to achieve orbit there:
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/~kerbalsp/wiki/index.php?title=Tutorial:Orbiting_(Basic)#Orbital_Table

there is an orbit calculator that you can use after you get the hang of the orbiting basics to achieve specific paths, altitudes or maneuvering between various altitudes
http://code.google.com/p/ksp-calculator/
(it's currently a bit off because the planet radius has grown of 60 meters)

you can read about transfer orbits there once you can get into a circular orbit and want to change your altitude on a specific other altitude:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

the calculator above can tell you what speed you need for the transfer you're planning
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on September 13, 2011, 10:41:47 am
Anyone get their joystick to work in game? It doesn't seem to recognize my old Sidewinder.

I think I'd like to mod some parts and create an equal weight external fuel tank, aka, space shuttle. I used the C7 and Sunday punch packs to make a really cool looking plane... that crashes at lift off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: NRDL on September 13, 2011, 10:42:59 am
Huh, with the SAS, i can fly straight up with no real problem, I just have to add more fuel tanks in order to increase flight-time. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2011, 10:43:25 am
addendum: the main thing is that fuel weights a lot. each stage that is not powered on at start is a dead weight for the other stages to lift.

things gets pretty heavy pretty quickly. you should not just expand vertically your stages, because once your weight grows one stage will get you just over the first 1000 meters, and that's pretty useless.

try expanding horizontally too, so that lower stages are more powered than upper ones. that means having always more fuel actively being used in lifting instead of being there unused.

here is the spacecraft exchange, where you can get some inspiration about rocket designs:
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0

look at this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't personally like this one, but shows off how you need to add more engine the more weight and stages you add.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 13, 2011, 10:56:59 am
I think one time or another, I managed to accidentally pull off a Farscape, and do a semi-orbit in order to gravity whip myself one hell of a distance.

The original intent was to go orbiting, but instead I made it halfway around the world, and several thousand Ks distance from the world.

Average ascent rate after 1000K was still above 2500 m/s, and descending a tenth per second.

EDIT:
Intentionally forcing a gravity whip at it's greatest degree (by descending from an adequate distance with lower gravity resistance and air friction intentionally at roughly 5-degrees below horizon at full throttle) almost succeeded, but by the end, I ended up spinning out my craft and had to abandon mission (due to wonky controlling and a bit of spinning while adjusting heading). Made it halfway around the world though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2011, 01:45:44 am
gravity slingshots don't really work because the planet isn't moving and craft speed is given relative to the planet anyway.

But if you fly away and get back it does give you back all that potential energy. That is, until you achieve escape velocity: at that point to get back you're actively burning your cinetic energy off
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: sneakey pete on September 17, 2011, 09:27:37 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2011, 10:43:25 am
look at this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't personally like this one, but shows off how you need to add more engine the more weight and stages you add.

Personally i actually think that's a pretty bad rocket. Too many engines. You have to remember that an engine and decoupler adds as much as a a full fuel tank. take for example the bottom two stages, boosters attached to engines with 2 tanks, then another set of engines with 2 tanks. just one set of engines and 5 tanks would weigh the same. Now, you need to lift those extra 3 empty tanks with you, however, it turns out that they weigh about an 1/8th of that. Since you get an entire extra tank out of it for no initial weight gain, and a small (0.9) weight penalty once your burning your last two sets of fuel tanks, its probably better to do that.

That rocket also has a crazy amout of SAS modules, though i suppose that it may have been made before the braces were added in, meaning it oscillated around a lot. Still, at 0.8 weight a unit... they can really, really add up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2011, 01:52:19 am
You're right and that monster is plain crazy. It just showed nicely the kind of increase in thrust you need as you add stages to lift the full stack of dead weights (the later stages)

I'm personally going with three stages right now. One to get out atmos, one for orbit injection and one for getting back home. (I'm preparing for the Mun :) )
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on September 25, 2011, 03:34:32 am
Sorry to dig this up from the depths of the thread, but I just couldn't help myself.

Quote from: Akura on July 12, 2011, 09:41:11 am
The difference between Orbiter and this is basically the difference between making to-scale miniatures for architectural design and playing with LEGOs. Only the LEGOs have rocket fuel.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2740.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 03, 2011, 09:28:40 am
(http://i.imgur.com/CfUiL.png)

orbital dynamics update (0.11) coming in a little while  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:24:35 pm
Do want!

Hopefully you can pre plan your orbit and it will tell you what altitude and speed you need to hit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 04, 2011, 01:29:45 pm
It's out, and you can simply see the orbit as it changes when you thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:33:53 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:24:35 pm
Do want!

Hopefully you can pre plan your orbit and it will tell you what altitude and speed you need to hit.

there is a calculator app for that!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:35:52 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 04, 2011, 01:29:45 pm
It's out, and you can simply see the orbit as it changes when you thrust.

Oh well, it is an awesome start.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:33:53 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:24:35 pm
Do want!

Hopefully you can pre plan your orbit and it will tell you what altitude and speed you need to hit.

there is a calculator app for that!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd like to see them built it. It will be fun when there is a "mission planning" stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on October 04, 2011, 01:42:57 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:33:53 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:24:35 pm
Hopefully you can pre plan your orbit and it will tell you what altitude and speed you need to hit.

there is a calculator app for that!

The idea is that you won't have to switch back and forth to your browser while playing, and can see a real-time visual of your flightpath.  Besides, physics doesn't work exactly the same way in Kerbalverse, and the planet is a lot different.

Also, goddamn what is taking HarvesteR so long?  He said he was about to add (actually, return) the in-game orbit calculator like three months ago.  KSP is falling victim to that terrible foe of indie games - inexplicable development slowdowns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:52:15 pm
it doesn't seem that slow comparing features added per release. it's probably a bit over hyped, however.

also, it looks like as if it's getting more toward an arcade game model than a simulator. not that I complain, I'm in for the fun, but I think lots of people will jump ship after the final game takes form.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:56:13 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:52:15 pm
it doesn't seem that slow comparing features added per release. it's probably a bit over hyped, however.

also, it looks like as if it's getting more toward an arcade game model than a simulator. not that I complain, I'm in for the fun, but I think lots of people will jump ship after the final game takes form.

I don't think they ever intended it to be a simulator. I think when there is more management to do on your space program and more reasons to build economically the game will get much more popular.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 02:00:34 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 04, 2011, 01:56:13 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 01:52:15 pm
it doesn't seem that slow comparing features added per release. it's probably a bit over hyped, however.

also, it looks like as if it's getting more toward an arcade game model than a simulator. not that I complain, I'm in for the fun, but I think lots of people will jump ship after the final game takes form.

I don't think they ever intended it to be a simulator. I think when there is more management to do on your space program and more reasons to build economically the game will get much more popular.

sure, as the campaign mode develops, it will sure rise in popularity, but I was thinking about the early adopters coming from the orbiter community.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on October 04, 2011, 03:46:58 pm
Well Orbiter is exactly what KSP is not. LEGOs with rocket fuel, people...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Vattic on October 04, 2011, 04:09:24 pm
BrickMod looks great. Haven't played in a while but will try it out tonight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2011, 04:30:46 pm
Quote from: Vattic on October 04, 2011, 04:09:24 pm
BrickMod looks great. Haven't played in a while but will try it out tonight.

I concur! it's awesome! and it perfectly fits with the game theme. it still lacks some parts to be complete, also there will be some new component types added shortly for which none knows anything, but that is one of the funniest total conversion I've seen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2011, 08:22:42 am
http://kerbalspace.tumblr.com/post/11375259018/ksp-0-11-is-released (http://kerbalspace.tumblr.com/post/11375259018/ksp-0-11-is-released)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on October 13, 2011, 12:22:30 pm
gosh darnit, the download keeps failing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 13, 2011, 02:51:46 pm
Quote from: Japa on October 13, 2011, 12:22:30 pm
gosh darnit, the download keeps failing.

Same. Going to have to give it a couple of days.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 03:19:09 pm
I don't know, downloaded fine for me the first time. You should use some kind of download manager, like Download Master. No idea if it speeds downloads up or not, but it really helps to get files from unreliable servers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rose on October 13, 2011, 03:28:28 pm
0.10 didn't work with a download manager, so I didn't at first try 0.11, but now that I did, it worked fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 03:39:52 pm
Btw, the Mun is confirmed (and already implemented) for 0.12.

...

Yaay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on October 13, 2011, 04:10:49 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 03:39:52 pm
Btw, the Mun is confirmed (and already implemented) for 0.12.

I was just about to ask.  Also, for anyone who hasn't looked it up, the Sun (Kerbol) is now an actual object instead of a lightsource built into the skybox.  It's about 13.5 million kilometers away from Kerbin, and since your control scheme is basically point-and-shoot, the closest flyby anyone has made is about a million kilos.

But Hell yeah, Moon here we come.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on October 13, 2011, 04:13:20 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on October 13, 2011, 04:10:49 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 03:39:52 pm
Btw, the Mun is confirmed (and already implemented) for 0.12.

I was just about to ask.  Also, for anyone who hasn't looked it up, the Sun (Kerbol) is now an actual object instead of a lightsource built into the skybox.  It's about 13.5 million kilometers away from Kerbin, and since your control scheme is basically point-and-shoot, the closest flyby anyone has made is about a million kilos.

But Hell yeah, Moon here we come.

Wait, the Sun exists now!?! SWEET.

How big is it, did they get the scale right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 04:23:31 pm
It exists as a point in space, rather than a light flare in a direction. No gravity or anything, but you can fly to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on October 13, 2011, 04:24:18 pm
According to the wiki:

Name: Kerbol
Mass: 1.756567x10^28 kg
Radius: 6.54x10^7m
Gravity at surface: 27.94 G
Distance from Kerbin: 13,559,014 km

For comparison: Sol

Mass: 1.9891×10^30 kg
Radius: 6.955×10^5 km
Gravity at surface: 27.94 g
Distance from Earth: 149,600,000 km

So, not exactly in scale.  It's considerably larger, although since it's a solid sphere instead of whatever melange of layers the Sun is described as, but is hardcoded to have the same gravity (presumably? nobody's gotten very close to it), and is about a tenth the distance away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 04:27:04 pm
In-game, I mean. It has all those stats, but they'll only be used once the game actually has the Kerbol as a physical object. It's just like there were stats for the Mun before there was actually a Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on October 13, 2011, 04:32:07 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2011, 04:27:04 pm
In-game, I mean. It has all those stats, but they'll only be used once the game actually has the Kerbol as a physical object. It's just like there were stats for the Mun before there was actually a Mun.

I should definitely preface this saying I have done no first hand research.

But whatevs.  Come look at the Moon!  C'mon HarvesteR, whar screenshots?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Urist Mcinternetuser on October 13, 2011, 06:29:38 pm
I wonder how long until there will be missions, and astronauts who you have to hire and keep alive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: PsyberianHusky on October 16, 2011, 12:15:29 pm
So, any recommendations on part packs to DL?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: DrPoo on October 16, 2011, 12:59:19 pm
Quote from: PsyberianHusky on October 16, 2011, 12:15:29 pm
So, any recommendations on part packs to DL?

C7, Wobbly parts pack etc, Assorted Hardware is also good for nit-picking assholes like me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Greiger on October 16, 2011, 02:16:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there was a minor flaw in my orbital trajectory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2011, 02:35:19 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 16, 2011, 02:16:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there was a minor flaw in my orbital trajectory.
Jeb is happy. Therefore, everything is according to plan.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on October 16, 2011, 02:37:38 pm
Does anyone know how to disable the red filter that gets applied over outdated parts?  I don't care that they're old, they still work and I want my rocket to not look like a giant tube of lipstick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2011, 02:48:18 pm
Open and save every texture in Paint. If that doesn't work, save as a 32-bit PNG or something. I don't remember which it was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mookzen on October 16, 2011, 02:52:15 pm
Just open and save, however it seems to not work with older versions of paint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: PsyberianHusky on October 16, 2011, 03:22:27 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 16, 2011, 02:16:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there was a minor flaw in my orbital trajectory.

Attempt to achieve solar-synchronous orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Greiger on October 16, 2011, 03:28:35 pm
Managed to get really really really close to the sun using that rocket I managed to fail to orbit with earlier.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was going to take multiple pictures.  But after that point it was all pretty much just my pod on a flat white background.

Sun doesn't seem to have any gravity though, I never sped up approaching it, and my travel direction never changed when I passed so incredibly close to it.

The dwarven plans to harvest the sun's magma will have to be put on hold... :(

EDIT: Ha you read my mind PsyberianHusky.


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on October 16, 2011, 08:15:19 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2011, 02:35:19 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 16, 2011, 02:16:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there was a minor flaw in my orbital trajectory.
Jeb is happy. Therefore, everything is according to plan.

Jeb is happy when the capsule is plummeting to earth with no parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: inteuniso on October 18, 2011, 07:24:23 pm
There will be a Mun next version.

That is all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aklyon on October 18, 2011, 07:32:58 pm
Quote from: inteuniso on October 18, 2011, 07:24:23 pm
There will be a Mun next version.

That is all.
Mun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Akura on October 22, 2011, 12:34:09 pm
The warhead portion of my MIRV:

(http://i.imgur.com/hXZ5H.jpg)

The warheads launch fine, but for some reason, trying to add a propulsion system to get the missile to a target fails horribly; it flips over just after launch. I'm thinking it's something to do with those winglets on the warheads. They had a tendancy to launch straight up even when being release pointing towards the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on October 24, 2011, 04:38:02 pm
Not sure what's happening here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 :D

I launched vertical and got up to a personal best of 6410m/s using only vanilla parts and put on time compression. To my surprise I eventually started reducing in height though my speed was still over 6k m/s. Looking at the orbiter viewer I was headed towards periapsis of... something. Does the sun have gravity?

I'm now nearing 200 billion meters from whatever and nowhere near apoapsis. My orbit circle looks more like a straight line. *shrugs*

edit: I've officially lost sight of the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on October 25, 2011, 05:38:54 am
Quote from: BloodBeard on October 24, 2011, 04:38:02 pm
My orbit circle looks more like a straight line. *shrugs*

That would be because you're on an escape trajectory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2011, 05:50:12 am
after a certain distance not so far, orbit drawings gets crazy.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3161.msg32245#msg32245
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2011, 06:08:15 am
It looks like a Negative Space Wedgie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Greiger on October 25, 2011, 06:49:58 am
How do you people bring up those progress maps, did I miss a button someplace?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2011, 07:26:42 am
press M (from version .11 up  ;D)

also, you may try to delete the config and create a new one with defaults settings if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on October 26, 2011, 03:09:44 pm
New personal best of 8088.1 m/s using only stock vanilla parts. The horrible FPS I get is probably the only thing preventing me from making it larger. I pretty much have to rely on SAS's to control anything larger then a single stager.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am
I found that ASAS works pretty well with nose-mounted control surfaces. The takeoff is wobbly as hell because it doesn't seem to know how to "gradually" apply steering, but the system manages to keep it all straight.

edit: this thing, for instace, flies straight up without RCS:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot5.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2011, 04:12:14 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am
ìThe takeoff is wobbly as hell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qacn2H-LxIk
dance rocket, dance!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Kaleb702 Games on October 28, 2011, 01:51:34 pm
Has anyone tried a decoupler powered shuttle?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 28, 2011, 04:23:22 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am
I found that ASAS works pretty well with nose-mounted control surfaces. The takeoff is wobbly as hell because it doesn't seem to know how to "gradually" apply steering, but the system manages to keep it all straight.

edit: this thing, for instace, flies straight up without RCS:


That should actually be unstable because of how tri-couples work. There is apparently a bug where one of the nodes doesn't get as much thrust or some such.

I need to get back to working on my lander craft. Trying powered landings is fun as hell, especially if you have a friend call out your altitued so all you have to watch is your speed and fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2011, 02:20:07 am
Quote from: Fikes on October 28, 2011, 04:23:22 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am
I found that ASAS works pretty well with nose-mounted control surfaces. The takeoff is wobbly as hell because it doesn't seem to know how to "gradually" apply steering, but the system manages to keep it all straight.

edit: this thing, for instace, flies straight up without RCS:


That should actually be unstable because of how tri-couples work. There is apparently a bug where one of the nodes doesn't get as much thrust or some such.

I need to get back to working on my lander craft. Trying powered landings is fun as hell, especially if you have a friend call out your altitued so all you have to watch is your speed and fuel.
Even if tricouplers provide instability, they're only at the bottom of the rocket, and they're in tri-simmetry themselves, so on the overall the rocket is balanced.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on October 31, 2011, 02:38:48 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2011, 02:20:07 am
Quote from: Fikes on October 28, 2011, 04:23:22 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am
I found that ASAS works pretty well with nose-mounted control surfaces. The takeoff is wobbly as hell because it doesn't seem to know how to "gradually" apply steering, but the system manages to keep it all straight.

edit: this thing, for instace, flies straight up without RCS:


That should actually be unstable because of how tri-couples work. There is apparently a bug where one of the nodes doesn't get as much thrust or some such.

I need to get back to working on my lander craft. Trying powered landings is fun as hell, especially if you have a friend call out your altitued so all you have to watch is your speed and fuel.
Even if tricouplers provide instability, they're only at the bottom of the rocket, and they're in tri-simmetry themselves, so on the overall the rocket is balanced.

I shouldn't say anything about rocket stability really, mine always topple over. I was just relaying what I've heard from the forums.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on November 03, 2011, 06:05:48 pm
And HarvesteR said...

Let there be Mun. (http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php)

Experimental 0.12.1x1 has been released.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on November 03, 2011, 07:36:36 pm
Whee!

*10 minutes later*

...am I the only one who can't move the command capsule? Y'know, to make the rocket taller?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Aqizzar on November 03, 2011, 09:06:34 pm
Damn the Internet.  There exists no good video clip anywhere of that Ren and Stimpy episode where they look at the moon.

I can't wait to crash into it, but damn will this take some finesse.

Quote from: monk12 on November 03, 2011, 07:36:36 pm
...am I the only one who can't move the command capsule? Y'know, to make the rocket taller?

Moves around fine for me.  You just click on it to pick it up, then put it down wherever.  Might be a platform-specific bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 03, 2011, 09:22:29 pm
Well, with some lightly-boosted basic parts, I was able to get a Munar orbit. I may have boosted the base parts a little bit more than necessary, but all's well that ends in the kerbalnauts getting home from their little trip.

Edit: Are the water effects new or have they been around and I just missed them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: RulerOfNothing on November 03, 2011, 09:52:09 pm
The water effects (by which I assume you mean stuff like buoyancy) has been in KSP since 0.11.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Charmander on November 03, 2011, 09:57:46 pm
I crashed on the Mun.

._.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Ultimuh on November 04, 2011, 12:17:36 am
So.. Which of the addons work for the current version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: BloodBeard on November 04, 2011, 11:55:22 pm
TO THE MUN!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Got there on my 2nd try. 1st time I almost made it actually; I shot past the mun, it flew BETWEEN me and Kerbin, I hit apoapsis and began a return course back to Kerbin, just barely missing the mun's gravity.  :'(

It's also official that Kerbin is the Kerbal planets name I guess, I noticed the name come up when you point your curser at it in orbit mode.

So I got into orbit with a little over half a tank left and I was pretty sure my ship wasn't landing-worthy so I tried to head back to Kerbin. I failed and overshot it. I'm pretty sure I could have made it but I found out too late that the orbital path doesn't automatically take in Kerbins gravitational effect untill you're closer to it, so I had no idea what my trajectory truely was.

(with vanilla parts)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Svampapa on November 05, 2011, 06:03:27 am
Does one have to buy the mun?

I can't seem to find it.  :(

EDIT:

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! One does not have to buy the Mun.

This here thread on the KSP forums is where to look:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Kanil on November 05, 2011, 11:57:41 am
This looks like a lot of fun, but I've spent so much time playing with Sunday Punch's parts that my vanilla rockets both suck horribly and aren't much fun. Hope they start working with v12 soon. :(

Edit: Managed to get the fix to actually fix and get it working. Yay, extra parts. Shame I really am not so good at flying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 05, 2011, 12:02:30 pm
I've made it to the moon with just stock parts. I've even landed somewhat-safely on the moon, although that was with a custom radial-stack decoupler part to fit extra liquid engines to the top stage.

This is the vehicle I'm currently flying, Spaceboom Mk5:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot2.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: monk12 on November 05, 2011, 07:59:11 pm
grrr... still can't get it to work for me.

Hope the stable release comes out soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on November 08, 2011, 05:56:28 pm
Quote from: Svampapa on November 05, 2011, 06:03:27 am
Does one have to buy the mun?

I can't seem to find it.  :(

EDIT:

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! One does not have to buy the Mun.

This here thread on the KSP forums is where to look:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0)

Where in that thread? It's 30 pages long, and I'm not finding how to actually have the Mun show up in game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Tarran on November 08, 2011, 05:59:28 pm
I believe you just have to download that version. The Mun showed up without tricks for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Rex_Nex on November 08, 2011, 06:01:22 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on November 08, 2011, 05:56:28 pm
Quote from: Svampapa on November 05, 2011, 06:03:27 am
Does one have to buy the mun?

I can't seem to find it.  :(

EDIT:

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! One does not have to buy the Mun.

This here thread on the KSP forums is where to look:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3683.0)

Where in that thread? It's 30 pages long, and I'm not finding how to actually have the Mun show up in game.

Err... just download it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Mephansteras on November 08, 2011, 06:18:33 pm
I did just download it. Hmm. Maybe I'll try redownloading.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 08, 2011, 06:20:28 pm
You're downloading the experimental release, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2011, 06:39:38 pm
what do you think about the current game balance?

right now, getting to the mun and back requires a very heavy rocket, which is not truly a problem alone but severely impact frame rate and thus the ability of controlling it.

so what I feel is not that the required rockets for advanced stunts are too big, but that requiring a rocket so big for the trip to the mun and back is adversely affecting the ability of my computer to play the game (it's a 19400 with a 8800 gt, so it *is* getting old, but not slow by any standard)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Sordid on November 08, 2011, 06:52:03 pm
Vanilla parts are problematic because engines and decouplers are way too heavy, which discourages staging. The advantage gained by shedding empty fuel tanks is outweighed by the need to carry another engine, so you're better off with a really tall stack of tanks in a single stage. The parts are also balanced in such a way that engines have specific impulse in excess of 500, which is way too much for rockets. The result of these is that it's way too easy to make a SSTO vehicle. And it's the result of the fact that the developers didn't even try to balance the parts properly, they just typed in some numbers as a placeholder.
If you want to try a better balanced game, try the Silisko Edition parts pack: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2925.0 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2925.0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2011, 07:16:09 pm
!

forgot about that pack! I saw it and forgot to try it out, shame on me.

you're right, I'm trying it now and it's awesome
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Fikes on November 08, 2011, 08:53:43 pm
I made it to the moon using some cheater parts, namely 4 engines powered by 2 of C7's fuel tanks each. The only other non-vanilla part was my landing legs.

Never made it back though. I don't know if it happens to everyone, but when I alt+tab out of KSP and go back in my Joystick defaults to half throttle so I took off from the moon unexpectedly. I don't think I had enough fuel regardless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Girlinhat on November 08, 2011, 09:00:52 pm
OMG there's a Mun now!  You should update the OP's title to reflect this monstrosity~

Now, to build a Munar-to-Kerbal Assault Rocket!  It shall land safely on the Mun and deploy small rockets that veer off and crash into Kerba!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Lightning4 on November 13, 2011, 01:48:32 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2011, 06:39:38 pm
what do you think about the current game balance?

right now, getting to the mun and back requires a very heavy rocket, which is not truly a problem alone but severely impact frame rate and thus the ability of controlling it.

so what I feel is not that the required rockets for advanced stunts are too big, but that requiring a rocket so big for the trip to the mun and back is adversely affecting the ability of my computer to play the game (it's a 19400 with a 8800 gt, so it *is* getting old, but not slow by any standard)

It's not too bad, I would imagine. I last played many updates ago and the parts feel a lot stronger compared to back then.
I "got" to the Mun with this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm certain I had enough fuel to land safely, I just needed some better control of my orbital path and landing sequence. Getting them back is another issue though. :P

Getting them off Mun is easier than getting them there, at any rate. You just need enough fuel to break Mun's incredibly weak gravitational pull, and aim your path straight at Kerbil. Parachute will handle everything once you get there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 13, 2011, 02:14:12 am
I got to the Mun with a fairly simple rocket on my second try (on my first try I mistakenly hit the spacebar when trying to reignite my engines for a course adjustment). I had to chase it for a few orbits around Kerbin but I still had about half a tank of fuel left by the time I got into the Mun's gravity. Unfortunately, the braking procedure ate up more fuel than I expected (does the liquid fuel engine consume fuel at the same rate regardless of the throttle setting?) and I crashed into the munar surface at ~60 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 13, 2011, 02:57:09 am
Quote from: Lightning4 on November 13, 2011, 01:48:32 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2011, 06:39:38 pm
what do you think about the current game balance?

right now, getting to the mun and back requires a very heavy rocket, which is not truly a problem alone but severely impact frame rate and thus the ability of controlling it.

so what I feel is not that the required rockets for advanced stunts are too big, but that requiring a rocket so big for the trip to the mun and back is adversely affecting the ability of my computer to play the game (it's a 19400 with a 8800 gt, so it *is* getting old, but not slow by any standard)

It's not too bad, I would imagine. I last played many updates ago and the parts feel a lot stronger compared to back then.
I "got" to the Mun with this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm certain I had enough fuel to land safely, I just needed some better control of my orbital path and landing sequence. Getting them back is another issue though. :P

Getting them off Mun is easier than getting them there, at any rate. You just need enough fuel to break Mun's incredibly weak gravitational pull, and aim your path straight at Kerbil. Parachute will handle everything once you get there.
Wha... why did you put AdvSAS modules on the radial boosters? And in double stacks! You do know that AdvSAS is nothing like the normal SAS, right? It doesn't provide force, it's just a control module. Ideally, you'll only have one, in a tiny section with RCS tanks right under your return vehicle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on November 13, 2011, 03:08:16 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 13, 2011, 02:14:12 am
I got to the Mun with a fairly simple rocket on my second try (on my first try I mistakenly hit the spacebar when trying to reignite my engines for a course adjustment). I had to chase it for a few orbits around Kerbin but I still had about half a tank of fuel left by the time I got into the Mun's gravity. Unfortunately, the braking procedure ate up more fuel than I expected (does the liquid fuel engine consume fuel at the same rate regardless of the throttle setting?) and I crashed into the munar surface at ~60 m/s.

No, the liquid engines will use fuel at different rates depending on throttle. I found a really cool thread about high high people could get a command module, fuel tank, and engine. I wish I new more about effiicient ways to fly. I know I am very wasteful.
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on November 13, 2011, 02:57:09 am
Wha... why did you put AdvSAS modules on the radial boosters? And in double stacks! You do know that AdvSAS is nothing like the normal SAS, right? It doesn't provide force, it's just a control module. Ideally, you'll only have one, in a tiny section with RCS tanks right under your return vehicle.

You beat me too it. I stole his design and added 6 SRBs to the bottom, wingles and 3 RCS fuel tanks to his SRB's, and RCS thrusters up and down the main shaft. I made it to the moon and touched down. Then my rocket started to fall over so I gunned it. Made it back home too.

First successful Mun mission and it was even with stock parts!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on November 13, 2011, 06:00:10 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on November 13, 2011, 02:57:09 am
Wha... why did you put AdvSAS modules on the radial boosters? And in double stacks! You do know that AdvSAS is nothing like the normal SAS, right? It doesn't provide force, it's just a control module. Ideally, you'll only have one, in a tiny section with RCS tanks right under your return vehicle.

Ah... well, thanks. I guess the design needs some tweaks then.
I had no clue what it actually did since it's been a while since I last played, I assumed it was just a souped-up SAS module. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jay on November 13, 2011, 05:51:55 pm
I think I just broke the game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
Do you guys have a calculator or something to tell you how to rendezvous with the Moon?  I can get a rocket into an orbit that would reach it, but I have no damn clue how to purposefully intercept it.  Heck, I'd be happy with crashing into it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tarran on November 13, 2011, 06:08:09 pm
Quote from: Jay on November 13, 2011, 05:51:55 pm
I think I just broke the game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Clearly you have gone to Keaven and all it's whiteness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on November 13, 2011, 06:16:12 pm
You broke through the snowglobe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 13, 2011, 06:34:54 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
Do you guys have a calculator or something to tell you how to rendezvous with the Moon?  I can get a rocket into an orbit that would reach it, but I have no damn clue how to purposefully intercept it.  Heck, I'd be happy with crashing into it.

I always just get the orbit big enough to intercept a small part of the Munar orbit, then speed up time until the orbit line switches. After that it's a matter of decreasing the hyperbola to a stable orbit. Landing is another matter, haven't been able to do it mainly because I usually lack the fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RulerOfNothing on November 13, 2011, 06:50:12 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
Do you guys have a calculator or something to tell you how to rendezvous with the Moon?  I can get a rocket into an orbit that would reach it, but I have no damn clue how to purposefully intercept it.  Heck, I'd be happy with crashing into it.
If you are in a low Kearth orbit heading in the same direction as Kearth is rotating, then to get to the Mun you need to start burning when it appears on the horizon, and stop burning once you get an orbit that intersects the Mun's orbit. This will allow you to get to the Mun's orbit when the Mun is close to where you are.

Here (http://imgur.com/K645S) is a screenshot of what I am talking about regarding when to do the burn for TMI, and here (http://imgur.com/EDh4N) is the resulting orbit which took me to the Mun (except I forgot to switch off timewarp and crashed into the Mun rather than inserting my craft into a stable orbit).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 07:08:39 pm
Quote from: RulerOfNothing on November 13, 2011, 06:50:12 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
Do you guys have a calculator or something to tell you how to rendezvous with the Moon?  I can get a rocket into an orbit that would reach it, but I have no damn clue how to purposefully intercept it.  Heck, I'd be happy with crashing into it.
If you are in a low Kearth orbit heading in the same direction as Kearth is rotating, then to get to the Mun you need to start burning when it appears on the horizon, and stop burning once you get an orbit that intersects the Mun's orbit. This will allow you to get to the Mun's orbit when the Mun is close to where you are.

Thank you sir, that is exactly the kind of advice I needed.  I love it, interplanetary Newtonian navigation by pure eyeball.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 13, 2011, 11:05:42 pm
Another way to eyeball it. Make it so the apogee of the orbit is roughly 1/6 of an orbit ahead of the Mun. This will usually get you close enough to capture with a small burn. I actually managed once to have my orbit intersect the Mun. Usually it's somewhere between a couple hundred kilometers and a million or so km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kaleb702 Games on November 13, 2011, 11:17:02 pm
Using a mod (silisko's or something like that) I managed to make a ship do an orbit around the Sun. But I was aiming for the moon. D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on November 13, 2011, 11:52:08 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 13, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
Do you guys have a calculator or something to tell you how to rendezvous with the Moon?  I can get a rocket into an orbit that would reach it, but I have no damn clue how to purposefully intercept it.  Heck, I'd be happy with crashing into it.

If you're feeling lucky you can also gun it at a spot below Mun relative to the Kerbin horizon. That's the direction it travels relative to Kerbin. If your trajectory ends up in just the right spot, you will have a perfect intercept with Mun.
That's what happened with my Mun mission.

Though even if it's not a perfect intercept, you can make some adjustments on the fly to correct it.

Quote from: Kaleb702 Games on November 13, 2011, 11:17:02 pm
Using a mod (silisko's or something like that) I managed to make a ship do an orbit around the Sun. But I was aiming for the moon. D:

That's pretty much what happened every time I missed Mun. A few times I did it on purpose.
I wonder if it's possible to entirely leave the solar system. My best attempt ended up being a pretty pathetic orbit, barely going beyond Kerbin orbit at its maximum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tarran on November 14, 2011, 12:44:06 am
Hmmm... I seem to have had the Mun fling me further out into space.

What's strange about that is SOMEHOW, I am still in a very thin orbit of Kerbin, with an Apoapsis of 13,000,000,000m (and lowering rapidly as I'm typing, it used to be 15 billion). That is about the distance Kerbin is from the sun (or whatever it's named). In addition, the Periapsis lies between Kerbin and Mun.

Anyone else get anything silly like that?

Edit: Ooop, I'm in orbit of the sun now. The orbital calculations must have just been screwy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on November 14, 2011, 01:42:38 am
You can leave the solar system. The Sun pulled me inside of itself, boosting my speed up very high, then I just flew out the other side and out of the solar system. 10000x speed and a hour later, I was still going.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on November 16, 2011, 04:04:19 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on November 14, 2011, 01:42:38 am
You can leave the solar system. The Sun pulled me inside of itself, boosting my speed up very high, then I just flew out the other side and out of the solar system. 10000x speed and a hour later, I was still going.
Needs comic with Jebediah wearing sunglasses.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on December 16, 2011, 08:16:16 pm
0.13 has been released, and had an interesting thing in the changelog.
"We've also added a new part, called a Fuel Line, which allows you to set up external liquid fuel tanks, Shuttle-style (Fuel tanks can now also beside-mounted)."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 17, 2011, 12:21:27 am
Also likely the last "free" update as well. Might be a good time to get those pre-orders in if you're interested in further development.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 17, 2011, 12:30:34 am
Quote from: Aklyon on December 16, 2011, 08:16:16 pm
0.13 has been released, and had an interesting thing in the changelog.
"We've also added a new part, called a Fuel Line, which allows you to set up external liquid fuel tanks, Shuttle-style (Fuel tanks can now also beside-mounted)."

Oh good, and someone's already shown that the pendulum rocket fallacy is still a fallacy in KSP.

Quote from: sluissa on December 17, 2011, 12:21:27 am
Also likely the last "free" update as well. Might be a good time to get those pre-orders in if you're interested in further development.

Yep.

Quote from: HarvesteR
As we've already announced earlier, this update marks the end of the free demo period. That is, we will continue to update KSP, but future updates will only be available for those who have ordered the game at our Store (and those who have already pre-ordered, of course).

The 0.13 version will remain available for free at the download page, as a demo version.
source (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4941.msg59400#msg59400)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2011, 04:00:06 am
Quote from: Tarran on November 14, 2011, 12:44:06 am
Hmmm... I seem to have had the Mun fling me further out into space.

What's strange about that is SOMEHOW, I am still in a very thin orbit of Kerbin, with an Apoapsis of 13,000,000,000m (and lowering rapidly as I'm typing, it used to be 15 billion). That is about the distance Kerbin is from the sun (or whatever it's named). In addition, the Periapsis lies between Kerbin and Mun.

Anyone else get anything silly like that?

Edit: Ooop, I'm in orbit of the sun now. The orbital calculations must have just been screwy.

it's because only one body affects your path. get far enough from kerbin, and you'll be orbiting around sun. (around 15Mkm I believe)

you still have the same momentum as you had when leaving kerbin gravity, so that your speed will be the speed you were moving relative to kerbin+the speed that kerbin has relative to the sun (hence your orbit will be similar)

it's important to notice that your flight path will maintain momentum, but the orbiting drawing code will draw your path relative to the governing body, so it may seem that your craft had a huge change of direction, but it is just because your velocity now is no longer relative to the previous body and the body velocity you've left is now calculated as yours.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 17, 2011, 05:11:23 am
It's more than just that. By going out of Kerbin's SoI (Sphere of Influence), you completely lose its gravitational pull. It's very easy to get stuck in a Sun orbit, because Kerbin will not pull you back like it would otherwise have, and the momentum you had will carry you too far from its SoI to get back without exorbitant fuel expenditure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2011, 05:23:24 am
it's not an undefined quantity. the dV should be around trice the absolute speed you had when you lost the kerbin influence for a full stop and return path or about the dV you had when you left kerbin if you wait to come out to the other side of the orbit.

the only important thing is not panicking because it's very easy at that point to burn too much and overshoot. first time I've tried that kind of catch up I reentered the kerbin influence too fast and I was shot off the other side because I couldn't slow quickly enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trapezohedron on December 17, 2011, 05:32:28 am
Just recently started taking notice of this game, can someone give me a description of the game in a nutshell?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2011, 05:55:53 am
build silly contraptions having wings and rocket engine, fly them to the Mun and back for amusement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJM-j8PLW-c


note: the future complete version aim to have have a structured campaign mode, developers says. Until then, it's a space simulation sandbox. (arcade-y, but fun)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on December 17, 2011, 12:57:41 pm
Quote from: New Guy on December 17, 2011, 05:32:28 am
Just recently started taking notice of this game, can someone give me a description of the game in a nutshell?

Ahem

"I see no way this could go wron- OH GOD IT BURNS"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 19, 2011, 06:51:59 am
Do I win a prize for reaching .0027C (821,128 m/s) with stock parts, or do I have to top a million for that?
http://imageshack.us/g/694/gravityk.png/

Note the altitude near the periapsis, nearly -52 million meters.

Apparently there is er, "air" resistance at the sun, because the apoapsis went from just above Kerth orbit to less than halfway between Kerth orbit and the star.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2011, 06:56:54 am
Okay, new challenge:  go around Kerbal without leaving the athmosphere (Cannot go over 20 km). Only stock part allowed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trevasaurus on December 20, 2011, 12:43:49 am
I had a lot of fun building a long distance plane for trips around the world and since I suck at getting to the moon Ill give this a go. Im guessing it will be hard to get the right fuel/thrust ratio to make it all the way around with stock parts but failing horribly is the real appeal of this game for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 20, 2011, 12:49:50 am
I think it'll be nigh impossible to make it around with stock parts. People were seeming to possibly manage with modded in parts. But one of the big problems was fatigue. Manually piloting something like that for the hours and hours and hours it'd take for a circumnavigation isn't exactly easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 20, 2011, 12:52:06 am
The game in short?

Take a Dwarf.  Now make him green, with a big head.  Alright?  His name is Jebediah.  He has a desire, a drive to a goal.  He will get into space.  He will!  Unfortunately he has no idea how to build a rocket, but that's ok.  He found a solid rocket booster on the side of the road, and there's some surplus metal supports over in the junkyard.  With nothing more than a nose-cone, a few tones of jet fuel, and a smile that demands the demented suicide of all who witness his joyous grin, this little disguised dwarf is going to the stars.  Very likely, doing so with no fuel for return, no rockets to use his fuel stock on, or most likely in pieces.

The physics are real, the rockets are not.  Tower up your rocket, set the activation stages, and watch it all go terribly terribly wrong.

ALSO: You can orbit in upper atmosphere.  20km is extremely close, I think the atmosphere goes up to like 80km or so, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trevasaurus on December 20, 2011, 12:54:33 am
I was able to find a sweet spot in regards to thrust/angle that kept me level at a couple of hundred metres off the ground. Obviously I wasnt going very fast but I think that for fuel conservation max power is probably not the right way to go. The hardest thing seems to be getting enough fuel to make it around without ruining the flying ability/speed of the craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on December 20, 2011, 06:52:06 am
Which of course mean you need a huge, kick-ass aircraft. Let's start by seeing who can go the furthest without going above 10 km. Winner will win something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 10, 2012, 01:40:31 am
So, I started playing this game.

21 space ships later I escape earth orbit and head for the moon.

Spoiler: Captain Bills Diary (click to show/hide)

So.

Turns out the moon is hard to hit.

At the most I was 13 billion meters from the earth. With 165 billion meters total traveled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 01:46:34 pm
There's a really easy visual cue that will get you to the mun's SOI every time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 10, 2012, 02:25:38 pm
I got a spaceship to orbit the sun!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There it is right after its Periapsis. The blue ball is kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 10, 2012, 02:41:30 pm
Quote from: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 01:46:34 pm
There's a really easy visual cue that will get you to the mun's SOI every time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This method is pretty good, but it doesn't really give you an appreciation for how you and the moon meet it orbit, typically entering it's realm doing about 3000m/s.  I managed to control my slingshot enough to get back into Kerbin orbit, but it's going to take me more tries and more fuel to hit a stable orbit.  God only knows what landing on it would be like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 09:32:14 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on January 10, 2012, 02:41:30 pm
Quote from: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 01:46:34 pm
There's a really easy visual cue that will get you to the mun's SOI every time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This method is pretty good, but it doesn't really give you an appreciation for how you and the moon meet it orbit, typically entering it's realm doing about 3000m/s.  I managed to control my slingshot enough to get back into Kerbin orbit, but it's going to take me more tries and more fuel to hit a stable orbit.  God only knows what landing on it would be like.
... Dunno how you're doing it, but I'm usually at around 350 m/s relative speed upon entering the mun SOI.
(just tested it out and I was at ~600 m/s at my munar periapsis of ~230 km)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nilik on January 10, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
So has anyone here actually made it to the Mun, landed intact and then made it off the Mun and back to Kerbin intact? The very best I've managed is getting to the Mun, landing, blasting off from the Mun with only RCS fuel left, missing Kerbin completely and ending up orbiting the sun. It seems that the majority of people's failed missions that don't end in explosions end in orbit around Kerbol.

Oh and for reference... because tiny things like these bother me...

The little green guys = Kerbals
Their surnames = Kerman
The planet they live on = Kerbin
The sun that planet orbits = Kerbol
The moon = The Mun

Thank you, this has been a public service announcement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 11:50:10 pm
Quote from: Nilik on January 10, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
So has anyone here actually made it to the Mun, landed intact and then made it off the Mun and back to Kerbin intact?
Yep. Want to see the rocket I did it in?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 03:11:03 am
Quote from: Peewee on January 10, 2012, 11:50:10 pm
Quote from: Nilik on January 10, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
So has anyone here actually made it to the Mun, landed intact and then made it off the Mun and back to Kerbin intact?
Yep. Want to see the rocket I did it in?

me too! (even on standard parts)
I've recorded some failures and navigation instructions there http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3961.msg44263#msg44263 (it's using nova silisko mod due to landing legs and being nicer in screenshots)

it's pretty easy once you have a craft that is consistently flying so you can predict its trajectory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 11, 2012, 03:53:04 am
Bah, mods. I do everything with stock parts. I just did it again for fun and picture taking.

http://imageshack.us/g/252/ship1z.png/
(album)

1&2: On the pad, ready for liftoff. Perhaps not the most realistic ship...
Note that the bottom control fins are blocked by the extra LFTs, but I'm not complaining.
The side attached LFTs are ejected as soon as each set runs out of fuel, as well as the obvious SRBs.
It's not until the second set of LFTs is ejected that the center, vector-thrusting engine ignites.
This ensures stability after the top and bottom fins are ejected, about halfway through the top set of fuel tanks.
3: The lander has enough fuel in the landing gear to make the TMI then land, with four quarter-tanks left.
4: Safely home. It only took ~3/4 of the first fuel tank to get off the mun and then lower the periapsis down to 40 km.
I dumped the fuel tanks and waited through the long aerobraking.
5: I was late in hitting the stage button, so I ended up throwing the landing gear around the mun a bit, hence the explosions.
Note the low g-max, which probably occurred when the chute opened.

Not pictured is the complete munar orbit at 740m +-2m
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on January 11, 2012, 06:11:09 am
Quote from: Nilik on January 10, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
The moon = The Mun

Actually it's the Mün, but most people can't be bothered to type that properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 06:25:26 am
Quote from: Sordid on January 11, 2012, 06:11:09 am
Quote from: Nilik on January 10, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
The moon = The Mun

Actually it's the Mün, but most people can't be bothered to type that properly.

didn't know this. couldn't find any source for it, however, where did you find it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 11, 2012, 02:42:32 pm
I made it to the Mun (no, I can't be bothered to type it correctly) and back with only stock parts other than landing legs. It helps a lot to have someone reading your altitude as you desend.

Then I jacked up my craft by installing the Nova mod, but made it to the moon and back again with my lander inside a nose fairing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on January 11, 2012, 03:07:20 pm
This thread makes me sad, because I've never even gotten out of the atmosphere.  :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on January 11, 2012, 03:16:57 pm
you can get out of the atmosphere with a single engine tied to a couple fuel tanks o.o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 05:13:14 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on January 11, 2012, 03:16:57 pm
you can get out of the atmosphere with a single engine tied to a couple fuel tanks o.o

you can easy get very annoyed by anime smileys o.o

I am staying out of this untill atleast spaceplanes and/or space stations come :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 11, 2012, 05:15:15 pm
Not really an anime smiley there, just big eyed. anime ones are generally more complicated than that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 11, 2012, 05:44:09 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 05:13:14 pm
I am staying out of this untill atleast spaceplanes and/or space stations come :P

With the new fuel lines and the C7 pack you should be able to build a pretty bad ass shuttle type system. If you haven't played it at all, the free version won't get updated for a very long time. I recommend giving it a shot, pretty small game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 05:53:10 pm
Would this game run on an integrated Intel chip, assuming my other specs are up to par?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 05:59:31 pm
the last revision performance has just been released (0.13.1)

it runs on a nvidia 8400M, latest integrated chips are said to be faster than that. It depends of which integrated graphic you have, I think
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 06:05:05 pm
It's pretty new, I think. The computer itself is only a few months old.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 06:11:51 pm
Quote from: Fikes on January 11, 2012, 05:44:09 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 05:13:14 pm
I am staying out of this untill atleast spaceplanes and/or space stations come :P

With the new fuel lines and the C7 pack you should be able to build a pretty bad ass shuttle type system. If you haven't played it at all, the free version won't get updated for a very long time. I recommend giving it a shot, pretty small game.

I dropped out when they began charging money for the game. its not worth its price..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 11, 2012, 06:23:10 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 05:53:10 pm
Would this game run on an integrated Intel chip, assuming my other specs are up to par?
Works perfectly fine on Intel HD graphics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 06:33:31 pm
The current version is free, so literally worth every penny.

The future version content is unknown, so worthiness is undefined.

You may dislike it and it's fine, so please share your opinion about that instead that making pointless and counterfactual comments
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 07:16:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 06:33:31 pm
The current version is free, so literally worth every penny.

The future version content is unknown, so worthiness is undefined.

You may dislike it and it's fine, so please share your opinion about that instead that making pointless and counterfactual comments

they said next release would cost money :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 11, 2012, 07:23:39 pm
Speaking of 0.13.1, anyone been able to download it? Mine keeps cutting off halfway through.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 11, 2012, 08:07:36 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 07:16:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2012, 06:33:31 pm
The current version is free, so literally worth every penny.

The future version content is unknown, so worthiness is undefined.

You may dislike it and it's fine, so please share your opinion about that instead that making pointless and counterfactual comments

they said next release would cost money :(

That's the plan right from the start. The last free version remain free, while customers who paid ONCE will get ALL future updates. It's only $7 now.

Just like DF, KSP has very great potential. If you have no problem donating to Toady, you will have no problem buying KSP. I'm just waiting for a payment method other than PayPal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Xune on January 11, 2012, 08:28:50 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 11, 2012, 07:16:26 pm
they said next release would cost money :(

Every version upto 0.13.1 has been free. That will now remain as the demo and new features will be in the paid for product which is currently going for a whole $7, soon to be increased to $10.

Harvester has confirmed that any relevant fixes or features will make it into the demo so it remains representative.

Even a brief glance at their development forum will show you that they're passionate about the game and active within the community. If you've enjoyed the experience so far, it'll only be getting better. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 08:34:54 pm
(has never donated to Toady :P )
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on January 11, 2012, 09:42:07 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on January 11, 2012, 06:23:10 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 05:53:10 pm
Would this game run on an integrated Intel chip, assuming my other specs are up to par?
Works perfectly fine on Intel HD graphics.

Well, not perfectly, the FPS is a little low (and slide-showey when a thousand parts explode... but I think thats a  universal problem), but it does run.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 11, 2012, 09:43:19 pm
The preorder price is set to go up to 10 bucks next week, and the feature list for the next version has been announced

Quote
* Flights are regularly saved to file, to be resumed later. (yes, persistence :) )
* The Tracking Station Facility at the Space Center, allows you to select and resume a flight in progress.
* Support for multiple simultaneous flights.
* An integrated game update system, so you don't have to redownload each time there is a new update.
* And some other stuff.

Soo... anyone going to try and absolutely pack LKO full of space junk?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 11, 2012, 09:45:20 pm
I do like the idea of some of the future features (colonization and space stations). I may have to pay up once these features get added.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: inteuniso on January 11, 2012, 10:38:16 pm
well... fuck. I guess I better preorder this week.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 01:02:25 am
Is there a mirror for the demo? The archive will only get to around 30 Mb and then cut off.

EDIT: Never mind, found one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on January 12, 2012, 08:24:02 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on January 11, 2012, 03:16:57 pm
you can get out of the atmosphere with a single engine tied to a couple fuel tanks o.o
Admittedly, it's been several versions since I played KSP but all my rockets lacked sufficient thrust and endurance to make orbit. I'd always run out of fuel and start falling. When I tried making them bigger, they tended to be structurally unstable and fell apart at some point. (That was before the game had the auto-symmetry design feature)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 10:02:52 am
orbiting is a matter of horizontal speed more than vertical.

here everything has a fuel cost: raising you apoapsis (AP, highest orbital point) has a cost, raising your periapsis (PE, lower point) has a cost, and you start with a very limited fuel reserve. you don't want to just power your way to orbit (which is entirely possible!) because it's just easier to get to orbit softly.

that means not wasting too much energy in raising your AP!


try this craft: capsule, sas (normal sas), three fuel tanks, gimbaling engine.

now, we want to quickly skip trough the dense atmosphere, then start gaining horizontal speed when drag is less of a concern.

try this path: burn vertically until you are in the first light blue part of the atmosphere gauge, then turn 'right' at 45 deg and clear the second atmosphere 'zone'; when you're in the third atmosphere zone, get your craft horizontal and keep burning your fuel.

go to the map view: you'll see that even burning horizontally you're still raising your AP! keep on the map view, burning until the fuel is spent. you'll notice as your path will stop changing. see? your AP is now way out to space, while your PE is still too low so you'll do about an orbit and then crash into the atmosphere

so, if burning horizontally raises the AP, how in hell do we burn to just raise the PE without wasting fuel?

relaunch and do the same: burn vertically until you are in the first light blue part of the atmosphere gauge, then turn 'right' at 45 deg and clear the second atmosphere 'zone'; when you're in the third atmosphere zone, get your craft horizontal and keep burning your fuel.

switch to map view, and follow tha AP with the mouse. when the AP is at 100k, hit 'x', it will turn off your engine. notice that engine off doesn't mean stopping dead! you'll keep on the drawn path. keep on the map view until your craft is about to reach the AP, then return to the craft view (you don't need ultra precision here, even if you overshot it by a bit it won't hurt. but try not to!)

notice that your craft no longer point horizontal, so turn it until it does. (that's because the sas holds you to a direction which is absolute, while 'horizontal' is relative to the planet). when horizontal turn your engine at maximum thrust again and hit the map view

see? now the AP will change very slowly compared to the first launch (slowly because you can't be infinitely precise, otherwise it would not be changing at all) while your PE will raise dramatically. keep burning on even if you see that strange things will happen to AP and PE: that is when the PE raises above AP so they change points.

congratulation! now you are in orbit and you did your first actual orbital maneuver!

now this should make sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit



Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on January 12, 2012, 10:25:38 am
There's a map view now?? (yeah, that's how long it's been since I played)  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 10:33:06 am
Quote from: RedKing on January 12, 2012, 10:25:38 am
There's a map view now?? (yeah, that's how long it's been since I played)  :P

there is a map! also, there is another thing relatively recent:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 12, 2012, 10:56:43 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 10:02:52 am
try this craft: capsule, sas (normal sas), three fuel tanks, gimbaling engine.
...
I still thought the smallest ship that could reach orbit was: capsule, 4xLFT, 1xLFE.
I guess that's just the smallest ship that can reach orbit and then make a powered landing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 11:04:51 am
Quote from: Peewee on January 12, 2012, 10:56:43 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 10:02:52 am
try this craft: capsule, sas (normal sas), three fuel tanks, gimbaling engine.
...
I still thought the smallest ship that could reach orbit was: capsule, 4xLFT, 1xLFE.
I guess that's just the smallest ship that can reach orbit and then make a powered landing?

you can do with capsule, two lfe and the non gimballing engine, but it would have been quite harder for a tutorial.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 12, 2012, 12:26:29 pm
One of my first forays into rocket construction has resulted in a design that can reliably make Jeb piss his pants for a good 20 seconds, without even getting off the launchpad. Mainly achieved through completely misunderstanding how to set up staging correctly.

http://wikisend.com/download/291222/Hilarity II.craft (http://wikisend.com/download/291222/Hilarity II.craft)

Press space, then press space again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zchris13 on January 12, 2012, 01:04:15 pm
That is amazing. You just need more thrust on those solid rocket boosters. Also don't try to take off until the solid rocket boosters have run out of fuel.

Try this. http://wikisend.com/download/807902/Hilarity II.craft (http://wikisend.com/download/807902/Hilarity II.craft)

Or even better, just try like 9 solid roket boostars all next to each other. It's wonderful. If you really want to have fun, put wings on it.
For MAXIMUM fun put on parachutes on top of all the boostars

ROCKAT.craft (http://wikisend.com/download/268850/ROCKAT.craft)
just click go. OOps I forgot to put parachutes on all the boosters.

I just hit the command center. Directly. Yes. Win. Game over, people go home.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 12, 2012, 02:20:06 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 10:02:52 am
see? now the AP will change very slowly compared to the first launch (slowly because you can't be infinitely precise, otherwise it would not be changing at all) while your PE will raise dramatically. keep burning on even if you see that strange things will happen to AP and PE: that is when the PE raises above AP so they change points.

congratulation! now you are in orbit and you did your first actual orbital maneuver!

now this should make sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

That was an excellent tutorial LoS. Can you explain how to do it more efficently? I know it is better to go at less than 100% thrust at some points, but I don't know when.

I need to update my game and play again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2012, 03:38:52 pm
Quote from: Fikes on January 12, 2012, 02:20:06 pm

That was an excellent tutorial LoS. Can you explain how to do it more efficently? I know it is better to go at less than 100% thrust at some points, but I don't know when.

I need to update my game and play again.


well, first thing, you need a target: without a target to reach, you won't know how to reach it!

say, your flight pat has three objective: one orbit at 100k, one orbit at 500k, reentry.

now that we have an objective, we can plan how to do it with the least fuel usage. note that this will not be 'the best method evar' because, for that, you'll need a proper navigation computer, while we're doing stuff by hand

now, the easiest way to change your orbital parameters in a manually controllable, low cost manner is that hohmann transfer: to change periapsis you burn at apoapsis and vice versa. you may already have spotted the problem with this: you can raise and lower them, but not move them around. as it's not relevant to our current mission profile, I'll just ignore the problem.

having a tested and true method for orbital changes, we need only to resolve the problem of leaving atmosphere.

the problem here is that drag will cost you fuel, and balancing that drag is difficult because it increases exponentially with speed, decrease linearly with altitude and, overall, increase the more you are in the atmosphere.

the only problem is that while light rocket may benefit from partial trust larger rocket will need all the thrust available because of their higher mass: you still need to get out fast from the atmosphere but large rocket acceleration is low. also, if you're using booster in the first stage thrust management option is just not there.

so, go for 100%, it's not the best way but is good enough for all intended purposes.

now, what about direction?

in a theoretical world where you have an engine with infinite power you want to act independently on vertical and horizontal speed

1 - shoot the rocket at start with the speed (think of it as controlling the craft inertia) so that your perfectly vertical trajectory goes up to 100km and then falls back.

2 - at 100km, the moment your vertical speed gets to 0, turn on your engine and get to the exact horizontal speed you need to be orbiting.

now, the only real problem with this is step 2: using a real engine, changing your speed from 0 to orbital speed 3000km/s takes a lot of time

so, this is why we want to start gaining horizontal speed early on: first, we will reach AP already with a good horizontal speed, so instead of having to accelerate from 0 to 3000 we will have to accelerate from, say, 1500 to 3000; second, we will be around the AP altitude for longer than if we were just going up vertically.

this second point may not seem intuitive at first, but you have to keep in mind that gravity at that scale is no longer vertical, but centripetal and altitude is no longer constant if you fly absolutely straight

now, it gets tricky to do it mathematically: the more you burn horizontally, the faster you get there and the longer you have to do your burn, but you will use a lot of fuel inefficiently. you want to get there with the least speed that leaves you a comfortable but tight margin.

this depends from a lot of factor, because each rocket has it's own acceleration profile. also, we can't exactly measure our horizontal and vertical speed separately at this point, so we need to approach the problem holistically.

just start with a basic, standard profile, and then tune it up for the rocket: if you get at 100k and have not enough time to do your burn, you'll need more horizontal speed. otherwise, you may climb next time at a steeper angle.

this is what I use to start tuning the rockets: climb up vertically in the first atmosphere, climb up at 70° in the second atmosphere, climb up at 30° in the third atmosphere, fly at 0° after that. keep checking the map to see when the AP reach your insertion point (100k) and remember that X turn off the engine giving you precise control over your burns.

at any time you see the AP at 100km, shut off engine and prepare for your circularization burn. when you are a bit before the AP, get horizontal, turn on engines, go to the map view and cut off engines when PE gets at 100km

how can we do this with the best precision available to our instruments? the vertical speed indicator, near the altimeter, helps you greatly. when it's 0, you're perfectly at AP/PE. note however that it has a logarithmic scale so if you're warping around, you may overshoot it badly. you'll get used to it :D

now do your orbit. when you're at AP again (note: when the orbit is circular, AP/PE are almost arbitrary, so don't get too worried about doing an exact orbit for now)

now, it's time to climb at 500k. the most efficient way is to burn from PE to raise AP first, then from AP to raise PE, but it will also work the other way around (but using more fuel) as the orbit is nearly circular, it doesn't really matter this time.

do your orbit. to reenter, we need to do the same hohmann stuff, but in reverse. burning toward the planet will do you no good, as altitude is circular, you're just gaining speed. if you don't believe me, do your downward burn but from the map view and see what happens to your orbit.

what we need here is to wait for AP, then, instead of accellerating toward the orbit direction, burn against it. open the map, and you'll see your PE lowering dramatically.

to use less fuel, you don't need to get it exactly to 0. you can just get it somewhat within the atmosphere and let the atmosphere stop you. the lower you aim, the less time it will take. get the PE at around 60km and shut off the engines. stay on the map view: you'll see that the atmosphere slowed you down, but you won't probably be falling down yet: this is the concept of gradually breaking using the top atmosphere layer: uses less fuel and heats up less your capsule (not that it matters right now, still..)

land, and pat yourself on the back! you've learned almost everything you need to do the same, but around the Mun

some more note that weren't fit for the mission profile:

rotating the apoapsis where you want (say, rotating it of 45deg) is hard without a navigation computer, but you may: circolarize your orbit, then slow where you want your AP/accellerate where you want your PE

it may be useful, while on the launchpad, to go on the map and see where on kearth the launchpad is. the location is pretty easy to spot from the map view once you know where it is, and its useful to know where in the orbit you are. the purple thing on the navpall indicates the space center, but I just find it difficult to use it reliably.

to all actual rocket engineers out there: yes, I know, it wasn't the more exact of the space mechanics. it will do, nevertheless.


 











Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 06:53:36 pm
My latest design managed to get me quite high, though I didn't quite manage orbit. Two rings of solid boosters surrounding three fuel tanks + liquid booster managed to propel my capsule to around 80km, and I (eventually) landed far out to sea. I need to learn how to steer the rocket better, because even turning off the SAS I still had to maintain constant pressure to fly any direction but straight "up".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 12, 2012, 08:06:06 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 06:53:36 pm
My latest design managed to get me quite high, though I didn't quite manage orbit. Two rings of solid boosters surrounding three fuel tanks + liquid booster managed to propel my capsule to around 80km, and I (eventually) landed far out to sea. I need to learn how to steer the rocket better, because even turning off the SAS I still had to maintain constant pressure to fly any direction but straight "up".

This should be more than enough to get you into orbit. Do you drop the SRB after they burn out? Are you running full throttle?

When you are transitioning from straight up to horizontal, it is best to click SAS off, point yourself in the desired directly, and then click it back on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 08:39:48 pm
Tried it again, did much better (despite blowing up some of the engines). Got to 132km and landed off the coast of the next continent. I think the problem this time (exploding engines aside) was that I tried to shift into orbit before I totally left the atmosphere, and had to fight against drag whilst accidentally pointing towards the ground once or twice. Will try again later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 12, 2012, 10:08:40 pm
This is my first rocket to establish orbit and reach the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1 Adv. SAS, 4 SAS, 2 RCS fuel, 4 thruster pods. RCS and SAS turned on while below 10km.
1st stage is 8 liquid engines on the outside (3 fuel tanks each); I used this stage to shoot up vertically.
2nd stage is the lower 5 liquid engines in the middle (2 fuel tanks each). I started tilting gradually after 10km.

I made it into orbit near the end of 2nd stage. The last stage's single tank is used to adjust orbit to reach the Mun. Once I get better at adjusting my orbit I should be able to make it back to Kerbin with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 12, 2012, 10:12:20 pm
How do you use the RCS?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 10:35:25 pm
My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on January 12, 2012, 11:15:58 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 10:35:25 pm
My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 12, 2012, 11:57:06 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on January 12, 2012, 10:12:20 pm
How do you use the RCS?
Default keys are IJKLHN if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 13, 2012, 12:49:17 am
Quote from: Fishbreath on January 12, 2012, 11:15:58 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 10:35:25 pm
My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P
That's why I think I may have been at the wrong angle. For most of my final rocket, I was mostly boosting at an "upward" angle. Should I be boosting more parallel to the ground or even slightly down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 13, 2012, 02:02:56 am
Quote from: Sirus on January 13, 2012, 12:49:17 am
Quote from: Fishbreath on January 12, 2012, 11:15:58 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 12, 2012, 10:35:25 pm
My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P
That's why I think I may have been at the wrong angle. For most of my final rocket, I was mostly boosting at an "upward" angle. Should I be boosting more parallel to the ground or even slightly down?

Basically: Yes. Once you get some height open up the map thing with m and orbiting Kerbin is a cake walk. Just flip down parallel and boost until you get the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 13, 2012, 02:13:06 am
What about thrust once you get that high? Full burn, barely any, somewhere in between?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 13, 2012, 02:21:27 am
I normally turn it off, spin myself in the direction I want to go, then full burn. Actually, most of the time my second stage ends at about the rightish time anyway, so I just detach that then spin in the direction I want to go, then start my third stage. Once I am making only minor adjustments to heading to smooth out my orbit I allow it to keep burning. But I never allow first stage or second stage (my two most powerful stages) to get any burn when I am turning, because it is too easy for those two to royally fuck me up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 13, 2012, 02:59:08 am
There's a vertical snap settings in the configuration file, by default it's off, leading to many balancing issues when you are not (or cannot not in some cases) use symmetry to add parts. Turning it on limits placing parts next to each other (only align or half higher/lower), but that makes your parts absolutely balanced.

Avoid using too many radial couplers - they wobble under stress. Instead you can put fuel tanks directly next to each other, saving mass and trouble. If your rocket is wide - stages poking out all around, you should add some struts to fortify them, or you will find your rocket steering out of control easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 13, 2012, 04:06:48 am
I've been having a great deal of success using an entirely circular design. A system of concentric rings of purely liquid rockets works really well with the fuel pumps. Using those, you can feed all the rockets on all rings but the outermost using purely the liquid tanks on the outermost ring. This allows you to start all engines, coating the entire underside of the craft, at launch, and keep them firing until the very end. When an outer ring runs out of fuel, it gets jetisonned, leaving a craft which is still firing all its engines (aside from those which got jetisonned with their empty tanks) and which still has full fuel; the process repeats until only the central rocket with the crew module remains. I've been using a design in which the number of tanks stacked vertically increases as you go outwards, though designs with about 4 tanks per engine seem to work pretty well too. It takes struts to stabilize and some SAS modules, but I've managed to successfully land one of the craft on the Mun, and almost land a larger version which probably would have had enough fuel for the return journey.

The really nice thing about the design is it has no penalty whatsoever for scaling up. By adding another ring, you are still left with a craft with the same number of engines and the same amount of fuel after stage separation; with the only difference being the altitude. Though when you start getting lots of engines, it's best to switch to gimballed ones, as those really help stabilize the craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 13, 2012, 05:52:39 am
I love building rockets with far to many stages, something about a skyscraper of metal that falls apart every half minute, stabbing at the sky, is just beautiful...  ~hammering spacebar~

I wish you wouldn´t spawn so close to the building though, more often then not it will happily rip off a wing of my rocket-thing and i´m stuck holding down S the whole first stage...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 13, 2012, 05:54:42 am
you can grow as much as you want on sides  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on January 13, 2012, 11:42:00 am
Okay, seriously guys, I don't care how good of a sorcerer you are, I need to learn that spell on how to steer ANYTHING correctly without having the rocket fly towards another freaking continent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am
SAS modules and RCS boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on January 13, 2012, 11:50:21 am
Quote from: olemars on January 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am
SAS modules and RCS boosters.
Tried them. It didn't make much of a difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 13, 2012, 11:52:58 am
Er, you're making things symmetrical right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 13, 2012, 11:53:22 am
I only use a SAS mod and a (six times symmetrical) wing things. My RCS are saved for twisting around in space. But yeah. Put  SAS, a RCS fuel, and some RCS boosters, then hit T and R, and you will stay super strict. Although of course you need to make all your stuff is symmetrical using the auto symmetrical thingy. Also sometimes you will need struts depending on how you made your thing to avoid a wobble that eventually ends up wobbling out of control.

Quote from: jaxy15 on January 13, 2012, 11:50:21 am
Quote from: olemars on January 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am
SAS modules and RCS boosters.
Tried them. It didn't make much of a difference.

Are you using the option to automatically make your craft symmetrical? Even a tiny change can fuck everything up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 13, 2012, 01:21:38 pm
Quote from: jaxy15 on January 13, 2012, 11:50:21 am
Quote from: olemars on January 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am
SAS modules and RCS boosters.
Tried them. It didn't make much of a difference.

Don't stack up too much thrust at the bottom of your rocket, it makes them very tippy.

I don't know how people build giant rockets, but mine are pretty straight forward and I've been to the mun and back.

From what I understand, the closer you have your thrust to the center of gravity of your ship the more stable it will be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on January 13, 2012, 01:48:47 pm
I grabbed a pre-built spaceship from the forum and tried it out.
I ended up drifting in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 13, 2012, 09:39:45 pm
SAS is akin to a gyroscope for your rocket. If you have a lot of wobbly components, you will need a lot of SAS installed.

ASAS is a completely different beast. As it's description says, it's actually an autopilot. Once installed and activated (press R), it will take over your winglets, RCS thrusters and SAS modules to keep your rocket going straight. You should never installed more than one ASAS - otherwise they will fight each other for control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 13, 2012, 09:48:08 pm
You have an error for your avatar, kcwong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 13, 2012, 11:00:31 pm
Quote from: Fikes on January 13, 2012, 01:21:38 pm
Don't stack up too much thrust at the bottom of your rocket, it makes them very tippy.

I don't know how people build giant rockets, but mine are pretty straight forward and I've been to the mun and back.

From what I understand, the closer you have your thrust to the center of gravity of your ship the more stable it will be.
That's known as the pendulum rocket fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy). In short, your understanding is incorrect. In long, it doesn't matter where your engines are (vertically).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 14, 2012, 12:25:54 am
Quote from: Peewee on January 13, 2012, 11:00:31 pm
Quote from: Fikes on January 13, 2012, 01:21:38 pm
Don't stack up too much thrust at the bottom of your rocket, it makes them very tippy.

I don't know how people build giant rockets, but mine are pretty straight forward and I've been to the mun and back.

From what I understand, the closer you have your thrust to the center of gravity of your ship the more stable it will be.
That's known as the pendulum rocket fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy). In short, your understanding is incorrect. In long, it doesn't matter where your engines are (vertically).

Really? Damn. I don't know shit.

I had several rockets with all the thrust at the bottom that would tip over as soon as the atmosphere started getting thin. It always seemed like putting a few rockets towards the top evened things out somehow.

I really wish I understood rocket science better, but so much of it goes over my head. I had to read about the Homann Transfer orbit a dozen times before it stuck it.

I'll have to build some craft and have you guys help me make them better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zchris13 on January 14, 2012, 02:16:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

HELL FUCKING YES.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 14, 2012, 08:20:27 am
Quote from: Aklyon on January 13, 2012, 09:48:08 pm
You have an error for your avatar, kcwong.

Yeah, I know... I removed an image from Imgur. It bothers you? I'll fix it then. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on January 14, 2012, 11:50:01 am
Nice zchrist. Now, time to land, take off, and land bock on Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zchris13 on January 14, 2012, 02:01:30 pm
I ended up in orbit around the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 14, 2012, 04:23:32 pm
I'll put this there.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
all stock parts.

it's my first 'heavy lander' concept. usually I go to landers that works with rcs alone, but I wanted to try something different.

turns out that having the main engine makes landing so much easier! you can set it to balance the craft weight and then rcs yourself to land with astonishing precision.


edit, forgot the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?dkx371zexj715rq
I went to the mun and back with relative ease.

(there is a minor quirk on the last stage, you have to space a couple of time before the lander engine kicks in)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2012, 08:29:55 pm
Spoiler: Orbit Get (click to show/hide)

Sadly, I used the last of my fuel to enter orbit, and thus these brave kerbalnauts were stuck in space forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 14, 2012, 10:25:58 pm
Till next update when you can launch more then one ship at a time. Hopefully you can refuel them sometime in the future :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 15, 2012, 12:05:39 am
Quote from: Roboboy33 on January 14, 2012, 10:25:58 pm
Till next update when you can launch more then one ship at a time. Hopefully you can refuel them sometime in the future :D

Is docking in the next update? Otherwise, that might be a bit tricky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 15, 2012, 12:31:21 am
How does moving on to the next stage work? I attempted to get the kerbals back to Kerth by launching the capsule straight backward, hoping to cancel enough momentum so the capsule would fall (eventually) but my orbit remained unchanged. Would launching it towards Kerth work better?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 15, 2012, 01:36:28 am
Stage separation force is only applied to jettisoned parts.

It seems that the capsule is pushed forward but is the other way around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 15, 2012, 01:37:59 am
In my quest for SCIENCE, I created a rocket better than any I had previously created. In its first launch, I achieved a very low, stable orbit around the Mun. As it has no atmosphere, I was curious as to the minimum safe orbital distance. I got it down to about 600 meters above the surface, reduce it a tad more, and discovered the minimum safe orbital distance is about 500 meters above the surface, as I hit the top of a hill while travelling at 450 meters of altitude.

The second launch was in an attempt to discover whether the Sun actually existed, or was just a figment of the Kerbin culture's imagination. So I launched from the planet and reduced velocity relative to the Sun from the 9000 m/s at which the planet travels down to 0. I then allowed the Sun's gravity to pull be towards it until the expected point of impact. However, the Sun, it would appear, is in fact a figment of the Kerbin masses' imagination, as the craft successfully navigated through its center. It also appears the mission has discovered a possible means of facilitating interstellar travel; upon exiting the gravitational anomaly previously thought to be the Sun, the craft had gained in speed by about 250,000 m/s, even after reaching a distance equaling that from which it came!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 15, 2012, 01:55:31 am
Wow. That is like... A tenth the speed of light or something. Crazy speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2012, 02:29:07 am
Woo, I've made a rocket that goes to orbit. It's certainly no munshot and it uses a few mods, but it gets the job done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 15, 2012, 02:48:32 am
Quote from: Criptfeind on January 15, 2012, 01:55:31 am
Wow. That is like... A tenth the speed of light or something. Crazy speed.
Only about 0.1% the speed of light; but still 4 times faster than Voyager 1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 15, 2012, 02:58:48 am
Spoiler: My first trans-Mun craft: Moon Or Bust (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Its successor craft: Honest John Proton (click to show/hide)

Managed to reach the Mun and achieve a stable orbit, then return to Kerbin with both.  Well, kinda.  Moon Or Bust took a couple tweaks, and it's hard to fly.  Honest John Proton worked worlds better and was much easier to fly, but I screwed around experimenting too much with how to make a stable Mun-approach, and didn't have enough fuel to de-orbit once I got home.  Would have worked.

Note that the solid boosters on Moon Or Bust barely got it above the tower.  Honest John Proton is too fat to get off the ground with nine solid boosters - the decouplers on the bottom just keep it from getting glued to the pad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 15, 2012, 03:08:12 am
Quote from: Peewee on December 19, 2011, 06:51:59 am
<feels ignored>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 15, 2012, 05:28:51 am
Quote from: Peewee on January 15, 2012, 12:05:39 am
Is docking in the next update? Otherwise, that might be a bit tricky.

No. The framework they're using to set it up should make it easier to add in the future. (by the way they specify crafts and parts of crafts)

Also, have some rocket:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I built that to try and get into an orbit around the sun of the same distance but exactly opposite direction as the planet. Went alright, got myself to zero speed at the planets orbital distance, and got 2000 or the required 11000m/s in the other direction. But it needs more boosters, obviously.

Also, if I delete the third stage entirely and just radially attach 9 tanks with fuel lines to the top stage it'd be more efficient, but I really don't feel like redoing the staging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 15, 2012, 03:48:55 pm
Spoiler: 2.4 MILLION m/s (click to show/hide)
Funny things happen in the center of the sun. On my craft's second journey to the center of the sun, it began rapidly rotating when it went below the "surface" of the sun. The map screen showed an altitude of -20 million or so. The speed of the craft increased more and more rapidly, and either due to the acceleration or the accelerating rotation of the craft, it was ripped apart (the 2 structural failures). The acceleration started relatively slowly, but as its altitude got increasingly negative, the acceleration increased first to 100 m/s increase per second, to 1000, and finally to 10000 per second (on 1:1 time compression). When the craft was ripped apart and rotation ceased, its altitude began increasing again and its velocity decreased. Done with conventional engines. More study is advised, particularly involving the rotation imbued to the craft and its possible relation to velocity increases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 15, 2012, 03:59:33 pm
Can we use ASAS to stabilize the craft?
I got an orbitfor 70,000,000 meters from the center of the sun, (Cause I ran out of fuel.)
I'll post the results.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 15, 2012, 04:28:13 pm
(http://i42.tinypic.com/241757n.png)
There they are, my orbit actually got slightly bigger while closest to the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 15, 2012, 04:59:42 pm
Actually getting to the sun is a lot harder than it looks.  At about 1.4 times lunar orbit distance, I achieve a solar orbit, usually millions of kilometers around.

Bigger rockets, obviously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 15, 2012, 06:01:58 pm
An interesting challenge would be achieving a solar orbit that intersects Kerbin's orbit in such a way that the orbiter pod after some years would reenter the planet's atmosphere unpowered. And survive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PsyberianHusky on January 15, 2012, 06:11:52 pm
Shoot for the mun, even if you miss you will still dye slowly in the stars.
I hope docking missions will mean I can rescue stranded astronauts.
t
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 15, 2012, 07:20:18 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on January 15, 2012, 04:59:42 pm
Bigger rockets, obviously.

Spoiler: bigger (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tarran on January 15, 2012, 07:46:12 pm
Needs more solid fuel rockets. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 15, 2012, 08:27:38 pm
Another launch; much faster speed.
Spoiler: 14 million m/s (click to show/hide)
This one was a much more direct route; all horizontal velocity was reduced to 0, whereas the previous had a small horizontal velocity (50 m/s or so). I would advise against any sort of powered rotation or a slowing of the rotation the craft gains, as there seems to be a problem which causes your rocket to shake itself apart, as shown with the instantaneous disintegration of the entire craft in the log. But at 4.3% the speed of light, it's almost to the point where it would be a viable interstellar speed.

Another interesting note, as it approached the very core of the sun, the velocity was under 1 million; the G force meter zoomed upwards, and the craft almost instantly accelerated to its speed of 14 million m/s. I think the rotation of the craft comes in part from gravity. As it's calculated independently for the parts, the extreme gradient near the center of the sun causes it to rotate the oblong craft as it pulls on the ends of the rocket at different rates.

The shaking of the ship components seems to continue even after the ship shakes itself apart, I think it may have something to do with floating point precision at such high velocities; though I'm not certain.



Edit: Next successful flight went even faster!
Spoiler: 61 million m/s (click to show/hide)
61 million m/s, or approximately 20% the speed of light. Overall a pretty decent speed for a sub-luminal interstellar spacecraft.
Again, horizontal velocity slowed to near 0; this time I thrusted horizontally just as I was reaching the center (in the ~5 second window between G force rising drastically and hitting the center), though I'm not sure if that was the cause. Had a slight rotation of the craft going on, and it appears my first craft's massive rotation may have been due to an orbit around the center, as it had some horizontal velocity left. This craft was ripped apart upon its speed up at the center, with the bottom half of the rocket being torn off, with the remainder oscillating very quickly with an offset caused by the oscillation of about 1 meter. Another thing to note, as the craft does have its RCS still, the velocity seems to be unable to be changed through linear thrusting; likewise I noticed it wasn't decelerating as it left the sun. Again, I suspect some sort of floating point or other precision problem is at the root.


My particular design for these endeavors is a circular design like I previously mentioned, with hexagonal symmetry. Stages are concentric rings, with 1, 6, 6, 12, 12, 12 engines respectively. All liquid fuel; and all fuel comes from the outermost ring via fuel pumps. Rings are reinforced with struts, with fuel stacks of 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3  in the rings. Thus, the thrust is 49 engines in stage 1 drawing from 36 tanks, 37 in 2 drawing from 48, 25 from 48, 13 from 24, 7 from 24, 1 from 3, respectively. Unfortunately, this build is probably impossible on most machines, as it makes even the 8-core i-7 930, geforce gtx 480 alienware machine in the game dev lab run slowly, particularly in stage 1 with 49 engines firing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 17, 2012, 05:05:12 pm
I copied one of the designs from Jefmajor's most recent kerbal asplosionings, moved the Adv. SAS, removed three of them, and added an extra RCS fuel tank. Now I just need to figure out how to get back down with this thing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 17, 2012, 05:10:34 pm
Just crash it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 17, 2012, 06:30:56 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on January 17, 2012, 05:05:12 pm
*some crazy-ass thing*
How does that even fly? O_o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 17, 2012, 07:01:13 pm
It flies because 4 SAS-controlled RCS is apparently enough to stabilize the whole thing. If I turn it off it goes spinny like that a lot sooner, but it does that anyway once I've run out of main fuel. Connecting them togther works just as well, but if i was trying to actualy succeed I wouldn't be copying one of Jef's designs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 17, 2012, 07:18:20 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on January 17, 2012, 07:01:13 pm
...but if i was trying to actualy succeed I wouldn't be copying one of Jef's designs.

Welp, back to the drawing board for me.

Funnily enough, I managed to make an all-vanilla Mun-rocket that totally failed to leave the atmosphere as it gyroscoped its way up and down from the stratosphere, but I managed to stabilize it after the boosters ran out.  I successfully made it back down to the surface with my "moon lander" segment.  "Successfully" in that the capsule survived, but it started ground-traveling really quick when it was close enough to get reverse-effect lift, and skidded over the ground doing about 40.  Still, the concept is sound.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 17, 2012, 07:23:10 pm
Here's hopping that a future update includes landing legs or something for the capsule, since engines tend to explode if they hit the ground at any speed whatsoever. I'm still not sure how things are supposed to land on Mun and get back up again.

Not that that's a problem right now, since I can barely achieve a stable orbit as it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 17, 2012, 07:27:43 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 17, 2012, 07:23:10 pm
Here's hopping that a future update includes landing legs or something for the capsule, since engines tend to explode if they hit the ground at any speed whatsoever. I'm still not sure how things are supposed to land on Mun and get back up again.

By landing your entire vessel, or at least a return segment.  In my case, I have the capsule on top of a triple-coupler, with six fueltanks and three engines.  If I can get it on a trajectory toward the Mun, I can deorbit at the moon and hopefully land on the engines (I guess I'll need to add struts, but the lower gravity and lack of atmosphere should help), then take off again, hit Kerbin with a return trajectory, then de-orbit.  I almost made it with a smaller rocket, but ran out of fuel adjusting my lunar orbit so much.  A better lift vehicle should do the trick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on January 17, 2012, 07:29:37 pm
I wasn't saying it won't work Aqizzar, just that as it is in that picture its not getting very much farther that that. Might work with more engines, or it might explode everywhere and be a giant mess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zchris13 on January 19, 2012, 01:40:24 am
Hey Aqizzar, how goes the "Be a plane" side mission? I never got it to work again after the first successful flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on January 19, 2012, 02:11:38 am
For lander legs, I've been using a modded in set. Although that's the only mod I"m using at the moment. They work well and I don't really consider them cheating. Except for a few experiments using empty solid boosters(which requires me to deal with making them empty at some point in the flight) I haven't found a single halfway sturdy, and decently weighted way to make legs that can survive a landing, especially one with any sort of lateral movement, from the stock parts.

For the moment, my lander/return craft is capsule+parachute on to of a coupler, on top of a liquid fuel tank on top of a liquid engine. attached as low as possible to the center fuel tank are four more, connected with fuel lines to the center one, and with the legs attached to the outside of those. Originally this was only because the legs were shorter than the liquid engine, so I needed some way to extend them a bit, but now it seems as if this is a good design otherwise. Spreads the legs out a bit to provide more stability, keeps the center of mass low so I don't have to worry about landing on slight slopes too much and gives me plenty of fuel to work with. Those 5 tanks have been getting me all the way from low kerbin orbit to the mun, and back very reliably.

Most of my experimenting has been to do with the first and/or second stages, trying to find a more efficient or stable way to get into orbit and perhaps giving myself a bit more push off to the Mun before having to separate so I might eventually drop a tank or two from the lander.

I also need to work on my Mun to Kerbin transfers. They definitely need to be more efficient. Kerbin to Mun aren't too bad but could use a bit of tweaking as well. I usually get there with a velocity of 550-600 m/s at a periapsis of 200-250km. On the way back though... yeah, I'm usually left in a very wide, very eccentric orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 19, 2012, 02:48:21 am
I'm landing on the winglet (the non controllable ones)

works great!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 19, 2012, 04:32:23 am
I like how this community doesn't shrink from providing a Step by Step Guide to Visual Stellar Navigation: How to Reach the Moon Without a Calculator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: monk12 on January 19, 2012, 12:21:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 19, 2012, 04:32:23 am
I like how this community doesn't shrink from providing a Step by Step Guide to Visual Stellar Navigation: How to Reach the Moon Without a Calculator.

I think I'll sig this, though I may need to go find the sigtext thread first...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vorthon on January 19, 2012, 02:04:25 pm
My most successful flight to date lasted about five minutes, reached about 18 kilometers above the ground, and ended with everybody aboard dieing in a fiery explosion upon impact with the ground. I may be horrible at designing rockets, but damn, it's fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 19, 2012, 03:02:49 pm
Spoiler: HL mk2 (click to show/hide)

my last lander design, certified for atmospheric reentry  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 19, 2012, 06:46:08 pm
So what's the proper way to fix an orbit? I managed to get into orbit again yesterday, but it was highly eccentric, with a maximum distance of something around 5 million meters and a near distance of about 90km. I tried to fix it by angling lower while boosting, but wound up breaking orbit, and would have flung into deep space if I didn't use the last of my fuel to brake and eventually land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on January 19, 2012, 07:20:07 pm
To get a good orbit around Kerbal you go straight up until you are satisfied with your height (I usually go for a million meters and at least 1000 m/s). You then cut the engines and realign so that your rocket is parallel to the surface of the planet, and then boost until satisfactory orbit is achieved. There might be more efficient ways, but that is the quick and dirty way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 19, 2012, 07:44:50 pm
The most important thing to remember is increasing your horizontal velocity increases your orbital height on the side of the planet opposite you. Reducing horizontal velocity decreases it. The easiest place to change your orbit is the periapsis, as the higher orbit and lower velocity decreases the fuel required to change orbits. To get into orbit, pretty much just go up. When you get partially up with a decent upwards velocity, go sideways and let the upward velocity get you to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Orangebottle on January 19, 2012, 08:42:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SO.
MANY.
STRUTS.

This thing can get out of the Mun's orbit, at least. It's pretty cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 19, 2012, 08:54:15 pm
Yeah, I was surprised too. Apparently it's called Mun (insert two dots above the u), and you can fly to it, orbit it, land on it, and take off again with proper ship design. Since I can't even successfully orbit yet, I clearly have a long way to go :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PsyberianHusky on January 19, 2012, 09:53:35 pm
I have crashed into the moon if that is worth anything, I have also had it slingshot me out of Kerbal's orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on January 19, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
Quote from: Orangebottle on January 19, 2012, 08:42:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SO.
MANY.
STRUTS.

This thing can get out of the Mun's orbit, at least. It's pretty cool.

:o

So many ASASes. Someone earlier in the thread said that having multiple ASASes was a bad idea, since they're basically autopilots for the RCS (IIRC), and that they would fight for control if you had multiple. Don't know if it's true, but it sounded reasonable.

Also:
Spoiler: I managed to land on the mün earlier (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, I had to jettison the actual lander, since its fuel ran out a few hundred thousand meters above the mün. That craft got offf the moon, though, and managed to spectacularly miss Kerbal and settle into a nice orbit around the sun Kerbol.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 19, 2012, 10:52:36 pm
Quote from: Silfurdreki on January 19, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
Unfortunately, I had to jettison the actual lander, since its fuel ran out a few hundred thousand meters above the mün. That craft got offf the moon, though, and managed to spectacularly miss Kerbal and settle into a nice orbit around the sun Kerbol.

I'm most impressed that you somehow took off from a lateral start in a non-lateral rocket without blowing up.  What's your trick?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 19, 2012, 10:56:28 pm
Low gravity and thrust vectoring engines would probably be the trick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Orangebottle on January 19, 2012, 11:17:43 pm
Quote from: Silfurdreki on January 19, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
Quote from: Orangebottle on January 19, 2012, 08:42:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SO.
MANY.
STRUTS.

This thing can get out of the Mun's orbit, at least. It's pretty cool.

:o

So many ASASes. Someone earlier in the thread said that having multiple ASASes was a bad idea, since they're basically autopilots for the RCS (IIRC), and that they would fight for control if you had multiple. Don't know if it's true, but it sounded reasonable.
It runs pretty well. It used to have solid boosters that would explode as it exited the atmosphere.

EDIT: Also, if the SASs weren't there, the outer boosters would collapse into the center of the ship, causing a catastrophic failure HUGE EXPLOSION.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on January 19, 2012, 11:24:04 pm
I love how positively gleeful the Kermans are in that picture. I guess any day is a good day when you stop moving and you're still alive. Even if it's on the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 20, 2012, 08:02:38 am
Quote from: Lightning4 on January 19, 2012, 11:24:04 pm
I love how positively gleeful the Kermans are in that picture. I guess any day is a good day when you stop moving and you're still alive. Even if it's on the mun.
Jeb: We made it!

Others: Uhh... now what?

Jeb: -Pushes launch button, full throttle, vectoring away from the surface- WOOOO!

Others:  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on January 20, 2012, 08:15:25 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on January 19, 2012, 10:52:36 pm
Quote from: Silfurdreki on January 19, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
Unfortunately, I had to jettison the actual lander, since its fuel ran out a few hundred thousand meters above the mün. That craft got offf the moon, though, and managed to spectacularly miss Kerbal and settle into a nice orbit around the sun Kerbol.

I'm most impressed that you somehow took off from a lateral start in a non-lateral rocket without blowing up.  What's your trick?

Mainly luck, I think. Being on a pretty flat surface also helped a lot, I imagine. It wasn't a pretty launch by any means, there was a lot of spinning trying to get the rocket to point upwards, and it would have been flat out impossible in an atmosphere and with a higher gravity (i.e. on Kerbal).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 20, 2012, 11:23:55 pm
With more experiments come more discoveries!
I was playing with small craft consisting of 1 or 2 SRBs with a large number of wings (controllable sort). Turns out you can fly perpetually with them. I flew at an altitude of 12 meters above the sea for 11 unpowered minutes at a speed of 40 to 50 m/s, with the ability to continue indefinitely. When speed gets low, pull up, then go back down, and you will gain a few m/s in speed. The 11 minute craft was relatively slow and had 4 rear wings and 6 front wings mounted on a srb attached to the bottom of the crew capsule. I also created a faster craft which had about 70 or so wings mounted on 2 srbs directly under the crew module (no stage separation). This craft traveled at close to 90 m/s, also showing no signs of stopping.

My theory as to the source of this perpetual motion is the motion of the wings themselves as they move. My guess would be that force in some complex interaction with the physics systems involved imparts some of itself on the forward velocity of the craft.
Spoiler: The 11 Minute craft (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 21, 2012, 01:10:54 am
That's an impressive find, and I just confirmed it.
You can also fly in a spiral and gain altitude and speed at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: monk12 on January 21, 2012, 01:14:45 am
That's amazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 21, 2012, 01:27:10 am
Found a couple more related things while creating experimental aircraft. A craft covered in more wings than should fit can generate a decent amount of lift by spinning (q & e key spin, I mean), but is unfortunately unstable due to the number of wings physics-ing those they overlap. Wings fly out at random, and the craft are liable to explode without warning. Further, craft with less wings than the required amount to generate lift above gravity's force can be incredibly effective at slowing a craft entering the atmosphere by spinning. As the ability to spin increases with velocity and air density, a craft covered in wings can essentially reverse direction if pointed upwards, falling downwards, and spin in initiated. Similarly, a spinning highly-winged craft pointed downwards while approaching the ground can maintain speed which due to air resistance would normally be impossible; a craft falling from 5000 meters achieved an impact velocity of over 300 m/s, whereas most craft will be slowed by air resistance to about 100-150 m/s.

The most interesting thing I found, though, involved a heavily winged craft with an ASAS module in control of the wings. Starting from a velocity of about 177 m/s, I pointed the craft a few degrees above the horizon, enabled the SAS, and watched as it climbed from an altitude of about 100 meters to a full 9500 meters, losing velocity only as the atmosphere began to thin. The ASAS module kept the wings in a sort of oscillating motion, creating enough thrust/lift to go at an extremely shallow angle from 100 meters to about 7500 without a drop in speed. Beyond that, speed dropped off sharply as the atmosphere dropped off; but still, to reach such heights entirely unpowered is quite an interesting sight. In short, wings allow some really interesting stuff at low altitudes, though methinks their usefulness for serious spacecraft is relatively limited; at least as far as the effects found in these experiments go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on January 21, 2012, 01:54:11 am
Well, How much control did you have after they stopped lifting? 9500 meters is not insignificant I would think. If you could then regain control and jettison them that might work as a way to get into space using much less fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 21, 2012, 01:56:48 am
I can't get over 9000, though I currently have a command pod, 136 winglets (several hit the launch tower), 1 booster, and 1 ASAS veeerrryyy slooowwwly floating away from the launch pad at 716m. (10.4m/s, mostly sideways, less than 1m/s up)

I can't stop laughing.

~4 minutes later, here's a screenshot. (1.5 MB)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3143/trolololololo.png

Aw, KSP crashed at 9:43 / 897m / 10.9m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on January 21, 2012, 02:14:05 am
This is very weird but pretty entertaining. I started doing loops and each one was 20m higher and 10m/s faster than the previous one.

It was awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 21, 2012, 02:34:18 am
Quote from: Criptfeind on January 21, 2012, 01:54:11 am
Well, How much control did you have after they stopped lifting? 9500 meters is not insignificant I would think. If you could then regain control and jettison them that might work as a way to get into space using much less fuel.
The problem with that would be the weight; you're still left with perfect control over the craft (you do have over 100 control surfaces after all). I doubt it would work for the amount of weight it would require to even get up into a low to medium orbit. Though, as always, more testing is advised. :)

Look at Peewee's screenshot for around the level of wings it takes to get into such a state.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 21, 2012, 10:41:33 am
So uuh... I went here (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php) and downloaded the free Windows demo. The first time, the download failed midway through, but the second time it was all fine. WinRar is giving a corrupted archive error though. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 01:16:01 pm
Yeah, the server is pretty wonky. I couldn't get a working download till I used a download manager. Firefox tends to decide midway that its done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 01:41:41 pm
Also on modded (I think) parts, I got to 12000m
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

T+1:08:00: Have been on autopilot for the past 20 minutes without touching the controls. I've been going in a straight line. I went from 6000m and 50m/s to 160m/s, 13000m altitude. Reaching the dark side seems distinctly possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on January 21, 2012, 02:36:19 pm
Quote from: alway on January 20, 2012, 11:23:55 pm
With more experiments come more discoveries!
I was playing with small craft consisting of 1 or 2 SRBs with a large number of wings (controllable sort). Turns out you can fly perpetually with them. I flew at an altitude of 12 meters above the sea for 11 unpowered minutes at a speed of 40 to 50 m/s, with the ability to continue indefinitely. When speed gets low, pull up, then go back down, and you will gain a few m/s in speed. The 11 minute craft was relatively slow and had 4 rear wings and 6 front wings mounted on a srb attached to the bottom of the crew capsule. I also created a faster craft which had about 70 or so wings mounted on 2 srbs directly under the crew module (no stage separation). This craft traveled at close to 90 m/s, also showing no signs of stopping.

My theory as to the source of this perpetual motion is the motion of the wings themselves as they move. My guess would be that force in some complex interaction with the physics systems involved imparts some of itself on the forward velocity of the craft.
Spoiler: The 11 Minute craft (click to show/hide)

You've just made an ornithopter is all. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 02:38:55 pm
YES

HELL YES

HELL

FUCKING

YES!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 21, 2012, 02:45:12 pm
Kindly explain what exactly is happening there.  Is it just spinner superfast somehow?  I want to try this, please detail your setup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 02:54:45 pm
My setup is a bunch of wings, a solid booster, and an ASAS.

Once I flew around manually for a bit, I just pointed the nose a bit upwards, and turned on the ASAS, and let it sit. It just climbed steadily till it reached air that's too thin to provide lift. It's still gaining altitude, but it's real slow now. 15058 at the time of this post.

I am using a modded pack, which would effect the final reachable altitude, but not the overall mechanics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 21, 2012, 03:20:40 pm
I've tried doing stuff like that, all it seems to do is make my "rocket" slowly nose over toward ground, and any attempt to alter its course it just pendulums around its original trajectory.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong, since I was trying it with RCS too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 03:24:16 pm
The ASAS is needed if you want autopilot, since it flaps the wings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: userpay on January 21, 2012, 05:16:53 pm
Can't seem to manage what you guys are doing (my autopilot stabilizes quickly and stops flapping) but my current version has my craft descending very slowly towards the ocean... I think it might even go slow enough to land safely which is good considering I forgot a parachute. Gonna see if I can take back off with what little fuel I've got left once it finally lands.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2012, 05:21:51 pm
You gotta get the angle right for the autopilot.

For me, it wasn't even going up and down. It just ended up going in a straght line, at a gentle slope upwards, gaining speed, till I reached about 15000.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 21, 2012, 07:39:33 pm
My latest crazy invention
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It can get 6 engines and 2 and a half full fuel tanks each of the second stage (outer ring is fed in as fuel) into a 150km orbit. From there it could probably land on the moon of a mars like distance planet quite easily.

The second stage can get the entire top stage almost to the surface of the mun, and it should be able to land with those 12 strap on fuel tanks almost full aswell. I believe the engine can handle slowing down the weight if you give it enough of a head start. (which i didn't on my recent test run. whoops)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on January 21, 2012, 08:55:00 pm
3. Press M.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 21, 2012, 10:31:49 pm
1. Have a RCS fuel tank and plonk the thrusters wherever on your rocket. They don't even need to be symmetrical or in the same place, they'll automatically figure out the correct amount of thrust to apply!
2. Hit R to toggle them on. Then they'll boost your movement using the WSADQE keys, and you can also thrust and translate with them using the IJKLHN keys. If you have advanced SAS on your rocket, it will use the RCS itself if it is also toggled on to maintain your heading. (aSAS will also use the winglets and gimbaled engines to do this aswell)
3. M for map, as said
4. if your using 13.1, drag from the tank you want to draw fuel from to the tank stack you want to give fuel too. if using 13.0,its back to front.
edit: also, connect at the bottom of your stacks, fuel won't drain from below a connector, it seems (or connect partway up if that's the effect you desire)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 22, 2012, 05:10:19 am
Is there a way to make fuel tanks that I can jettison without jettisoning the engines using them? I was thinking of using radial decouplers and fuel pipes, but the engines always start draining fuel from the tank above them, and I have no idea how to do the staging right so while the engine stage is still going, the fuel tank can be detached.

...Wait. I can put the tank's decouplers in a stage above the engine, and the engine's decouplers' above that, but it still doesn't solve the problem of just which fuel tank is used first! And I probably won't be able to control thrust after doing this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 05:26:30 am
If you zoom in close you can see arrows on the fuel lines make sure its pointing the correct direction. But yeah, staging should just go, engines, radial decouplers for the tanks, then decouplers for the next stage etc.

Fuel lines should be at the bottom of the radial tanks stacks too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Orangebottle on January 22, 2012, 02:30:13 pm
A solar orbit that intersects planet Kerbin's orbit is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Simmura McCrea on January 22, 2012, 02:32:14 pm
Sure it is. How else do you get back?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 22, 2012, 02:37:06 pm
I think it's a splendid idea.

Managed to land crash on the Mun for the first time today. Not that difficult as it turns out. I guess the next goal will have to be entering a munarorbit and then successfully return to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 22, 2012, 03:56:30 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 05:26:30 am
If you zoom in close you can see arrows on the fuel lines make sure its pointing the correct direction. But yeah, staging should just go, engines, radial decouplers for the tanks, then decouplers for the next stage etc.

I know that's what decides which direction the fuel goes in, but how do I set the order in which fuel tanks are used?

Quote from: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 05:26:30 am
Fuel lines should be at the bottom of the radial tanks stacks too.

Call me stupid but I have no idea what you mean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 04:24:01 pm
That's how you determine which are used first. If you have, say, a stack of 3 fuel tanks, with radially attached 3 stacks of 3 fuel tanks, if you put a fuel line facing in from the top of the radial fuel tanks, first the top 3 (one on each stack) radial tanks will be used, then the centre tank will be used. If you attach from the bottom of the radial tank stacks, it will use all of them before it uses the center tanks.

That's probably confusing as all hell, my real suggestion is to make a smallish rocket and just test it out

In semi related news, my mega rocket has been even more expanded, however as soon as i put wings on it, it decides to just rapidly lean to the left and crash into the ground. When under the control of SAS or not. Annoying, as without the winglets being present it just goes straight up (for a time at least). May end up just changing one of the sets of engines to gimballing.

edit edit: replaced 8 of the 40 first stage engines with gimballing ones. The thrust will be missed... but its better than faceplanting into the ground at 300km/h

Not that it matters. the first stage gets it to 40000m anyway, would have needed gimballing engines no matter what, as there's no atmosphere up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 22, 2012, 07:31:08 pm
I made a huge ass rocket with 3 triple-stacks hanging at the very end, it's wobbling very funnily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 08:31:36 pm
Needs more struts, really. :P

edit: presenting, the craziest rocket i've ever built!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With a massive first stage of 160 fuel tanks and 40 engines, the rocket gets to over 40km straight up before the fuel is depleted. The outer 32 tanks of the 64 tank second stage then power the rocket into a low kerbal orbit, leaving the remaining 32 tanks and 8 engines of the second stage almost full. mounted on top is 16 more tanks, an engine and a SAS module. All in all, a lot of delta-v

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh yeah, as you can see there, the dam thing's got so many parts it blanks out part of the altitude gauge, in 13.0 at least. I'm about to test it in 13.1 and see if anything changes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Orangebottle on January 23, 2012, 03:20:50 am
Spoiler: quote from a few pages back (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 23, 2012, 03:43:44 am
I've not seen it spelled Mün anywhere (including ingame, where it's spelled Mun). I demand a Word of God as proof that this is how it is supposed to be spelled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 23, 2012, 04:18:04 am
Quote from: olemars on January 23, 2012, 03:43:44 am
I demand a Word of God as proof that [Mün] is how it is supposed to be spelled.
Can't find any.
Links to HarvesteR referring to it as the Mun:
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3150.msg32187#msg32187
http://kerbalspace.tumblr.com/post/12648912860/the-mun-and-some-other-stuff-the-0-12-update-is
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4034.msg45319#msg45319
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 05:03:34 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 08:31:36 pm
Needs more struts, really. :P

Whenever I use struts, my rocket gets too heavy to even lift off without using like half the fuel of the first stage.

Quote from: sneakey pete on January 22, 2012, 08:31:36 pm
edit: presenting, the craziest rocket i've ever built!

Not crazy enough, you need boosters. ;)

Edit: Yay, achieved my first orbit around Kerbin, with an apoapsis of 160k and a periapsis of 88k. But I only have a bit of fuel left. I really hope that will be enough to bring me down. For a Hohmann transfer, I'd brake in the apoapsis, right?

Second edit: Indeed I'd do that. T+1:07:08, landed 173 meters above sea level after completing one orbital period above Kerbin. Next mission: Enter orbit around the Mün, then return safely to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 23, 2012, 06:10:38 am
I just tried 13.1 and found the symmetry tool is very broken... fuel lines act funny, and fuel tanks are not connected.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 23, 2012, 06:21:45 am
yeah, it doesn't really work with rotations and such


but if you keep adding and working only on the "center" parts it is workable.

by center I mean the part that you added that got rotated; if you add something to the parts that get 'spawned' by the rotation tools they won't work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 06:33:30 am
Apparently, having 9 of those triple stacking thingies is a bad idea. Exploded on launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 23, 2012, 06:38:27 am
The dev mentioned something about it being to do with parent parts etc. All well for him to say that, but i didn't code the game so I can't understand what exactly i need to do to fix it. Hence i'm still rolling in 13.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 23, 2012, 06:39:19 am
You put tricouplers on tricouplers? That causes overlapping I think, which means instant kaboom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on January 23, 2012, 06:54:45 am
Quote from: olemars on January 23, 2012, 06:39:19 am
You put tricouplers on tricouplers? That causes overlapping I think, which means instant kaboom.

I think the VAB already stop you from doing that. More likely it was symmetry malfunction, your parts look like they were connected but were really not. Then they got crushed when the engines fired.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 08:35:30 am
Nah, it was simply too heavy, a radial decoupler failed, and everything exploded upon smashing into each other. Also, nah, I had a tricoupler, 3 boosters on that, then each booster had a radial decoupler-attached booster, which all had a tricoupler.

Edit: Well, symmetry is simply not allowed for tricouplers, making a contraption such as mine impossible to balance. Sad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on January 23, 2012, 11:22:43 am
Tricouplers have been a bit of an issue for a while now. The only real way I've been using them lately is if I want to attach 3 engines to one stack of fuel tanks. And that's not really so much of an issue anymore with the fuel lines since I don't need to do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 12:21:57 pm
And that means you can't have a triple main rocket to which you radially attach stuff. Sad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on January 23, 2012, 12:50:23 pm
Just radially attach things to a single main rocket, and then attach more to those. You'll end up with things slightly more spread out, and possibly a little heavier, but that doesn't mean you're any worse off if you design it well. If you want what I think you're asking for, Single stack of fuel tanks. 3 more attached symmetrically near the bottom, engines on those. Fuel lines from the main stack to each of the single tanks to feed fuel to the engines.

Same thing, takes up a little more space, but essentially leaves you with the same setup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 01:11:13 pm
Yeah, I know, I know. But I think I figured out a use for tricouplers. Sometimes a rocket is simply so heavy it breaks the bottom components, but adding tricouplers allow you to make your first stage larger, and thus harder to break.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 23, 2012, 01:14:06 pm
Some of my best designs so far make use of tri-couplers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 23, 2012, 03:42:34 pm
Teach me, master!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 23, 2012, 04:11:53 pm
Solid fuel rockets are for initially boosting yourself off the pad - just like the Space Shuttle - when you need lots of cheap, disposable thrust and you're going to be gunning full throttle anyway.  After that, there's no use for them except as a creative replacement for moon-lander struts because they're a little more durable than radial connectors.  For large enough rockets, you might not even bother with the solid boosters, because they just don't scale very well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2012, 04:14:35 pm
I use them as an incredibly silly first stage, usually with about 36 solid boosters which fall off quickly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 23, 2012, 04:23:40 pm
I plan and test my rockets normally using liquid engines, then, under each engine of the last stage, I put a staged booster  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 23, 2012, 04:42:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This thing got me to orbit and back, with tri-couplers. I'm planning to try replacing the solid boosters with liquid, but for now these work rather well.

Re: Solid vs liquid, it was my understanding that solid boosters were more powerful and more efficient in terms of weight and space. I tend to use solid boosters to get off the pad, and liquid boosters for everything else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on January 23, 2012, 04:51:27 pm
Solid boosters doubles as unguided missiles if you fudge the staging a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 23, 2012, 05:21:35 pm
Solid's are actually less powerful than liquid engines, though they weigh less initially, a stack of 2-3 liquid tanks with engines engines is much more efficient than solids. in the rocket above, just adding 1-2 more tanks to the outer engines and getting rid of the solids completely would probably work better, for example.

edit: clarification
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2012, 05:23:58 pm
I assume solids will be the cheaper disposable alternative once money actually matters in the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 24, 2012, 03:54:08 am
I sometimes use them on the bottom, sides and top of my rocket to boost off the landing pad, so I can use the precious fuel less, just to keep speed until I get out of the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2012, 04:40:23 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2012, 05:23:58 pm
I assume solids will be the cheaper disposable alternative once money actually matters in the game.

also all the part will be rebalanced and expanded upon at an unspecified version.

I guess that booster will then become more like their actual real world counterpart: more power than liquid and cheaper to operate if you dispose and recollect them. (except when maintenance fail and the booster explode killing all the crew  :P)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 24, 2012, 05:30:38 am
Even you could just stack the booster segments ontop of eachother and make a longer one that burned for longer/with more power they'd be fine. They do have a good power to weight ratio on their own, however due to the fact that the nozzle is inbuilt, you then need a decoupler for every single solid booster. If that wasn't a requirement it'd be much better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mormota on January 24, 2012, 09:21:19 am
Unless you make an entire stage out of boosters, then you can just attach them to each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2012, 09:24:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

credits: foamyesque
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=1377.msg23643#msg23643
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zchris13 on January 24, 2012, 10:45:04 am
You need to put parachutes on them. Trust me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on January 25, 2012, 12:07:39 am
Quote from: Taz on January 24, 2012, 11:06:36 pm
WHY THIS HAPPEN?

because powered landings and parachutes don't mix?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 25, 2012, 03:53:37 am
the limit is about 12-15m/s for the capsule to survive. If you land iwth fuel tanks or anything above about 2-3m/s they won't survive, and with enouhg at 12m/s they could explode the crewmembers instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on January 26, 2012, 11:06:56 pm
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3716/kerbalorbit.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/kerbalorbit.png/)

Ha! Finally. Of course, used advanced SAS.. But I have no patience to play around with the pitch/yaw/roll right now  :P
Went around a few times and now it's landing safely somewhere.

--
Actually, it landed at 18 m/s and exploded. Probably because I didn't eject the SAS and RCR :\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 26, 2012, 11:12:43 pm
Yeah, it seems like parachutes can't handle more than one thing. I'm not even sure if they work on ejected boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 27, 2012, 06:20:57 am
I use the parachute in conjuction with a rocket engine to land.
the parachute keeps the rocket pointing upwards so it has autopilot on landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 27, 2012, 11:14:18 am
Quote from: Sirus on January 26, 2012, 11:12:43 pm
Yeah, it seems like parachutes can't handle more than one thing. I'm not even sure if they work on ejected boosters.
It works, just activate the parachutes before you eject the boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on January 27, 2012, 07:25:37 pm
I love space and physics, but I suck at math for the time being (public schools are completely useless on some countries. Mine included), but anyone needed to study something before doing missions like going into orbit, etc?

I'm thinking about something to do, like making orbit with a rocket, and storing enough fuel to break the orbit with a liquid fuel engine, just for training.

I liked the idea with parachutes on rockets, didn't know they could even attach to rockets. Haven't played around with the game yet, just enough to make that weird orbit yesterday that ended up killing the crew.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 27, 2012, 07:33:06 pm
Quote from: Gabeux on January 27, 2012, 07:25:37 pm
I love space and physics, but I suck at math for the time being (public schools are completely useless on some countries. Mine included), but anyone needed to study something before doing missions like going into orbit, etc?

Here's the beginner's guide to Gettin' Into Space, almost no math required.

For Orbit: Try to reach an altitude of 40km going at least 600m/s, then crank it eastward until your compass is on the horizon and let parabolic physics do the work for you.  Ideally, you can achieve a stable and only slightly elliptical orbit be reaching a speed of between 2000m/s and 3000m/s at an altitude of 100-200km.

Getting to the Moon: Achieve orbit as described, then head all the way around the planet.  The moment you see the Moon come up over the horizon, gun it at full throttle (making sure you're pointed dead at the horizon on your compass.  Periodically check your Orbit Calculator (which does all the work for you) and kill throttle when your orbital track cross the Moon's path.  Technically, you can do this any time from orbit, it's just that if you line it up with the Moonrise, you'll come pretty close to intercepting it and orbiting around.

Other than that, just experiment like crazy.  You'll need to, to make rockets big enough to achieve things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 29, 2012, 05:05:45 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 29, 2012, 12:03:42 pm
welp, I'm gonna ore order the game as soon as my new graphics card gets here.

also, does the game run faster in 0.13 or whatever version it is?

to me .13 runs better, and 13.2 even more.

for some reason, the building scene runs worse, way worse than when in game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on February 03, 2012, 12:52:02 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 29, 2012, 12:03:42 pm
also, does the game run faster in 0.13 or whatever version it is?

Yes, 0.13 was purely a bugfix and optimization update, so the performance is significantly better than in previous versions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on February 03, 2012, 01:54:27 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 03, 2012, 01:50:04 pm
Quote from: Sordid on February 03, 2012, 12:52:02 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 29, 2012, 12:03:42 pm
also, does the game run faster in 0.13 or whatever version it is?

Yes, 0.13 was purely a bugfix and optimization update, so the performance is significantly better than in previous versions.
Yay! that means when I get it, I can actually build more monstrous space station things!
Using mods, OFC, the vanilla game doesn't let you make very good space stations. Or ways of getting whole station parts into orbit.
Plus they're gone on your next launch. No docking with previously-launched stations yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on February 03, 2012, 07:30:29 pm
Quote from: Sirus on February 03, 2012, 01:54:27 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 03, 2012, 01:50:04 pm
Quote from: Sordid on February 03, 2012, 12:52:02 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 29, 2012, 12:03:42 pm
also, does the game run faster in 0.13 or whatever version it is?

Yes, 0.13 was purely a bugfix and optimization update, so the performance is significantly better than in previous versions.
Yay! that means when I get it, I can actually build more monstrous space station things!
Using mods, OFC, the vanilla game doesn't let you make very good space stations. Or ways of getting whole station parts into orbit.
Plus they're gone on your next launch. No docking with previously-launched stations yet.
Next update, hopefully...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on March 01, 2012, 08:21:50 pm
So hey, if nobody noticed (which judging by how dusty the thread is, you probably haven't), Kerbals In Space updated to version .14!  It's still in the experimental release stage, but more importantly, you now have to preorder/donate at least $10 in order to get the newest version.

Updates?  Updates:

-Multiple rockets!  No shit.  I'm still figuring out how it works, but the important thing is, you can leave a craft in flight, and launch other ones, and switch between them.  They can't really fly themselves, but if you leave them in a stable orbit, they'll stay there.

-Landers!  Lander legs anyway, that fold down and kinda work.  Stacks have a tendency to separate on landing, but they're in the cards at least.  Builder symmetry improvements help too.

-New Kerbonauts?!  Yep, to accommodate the multiple craft thing, there's now a roster of crewmen (apparently), with suitable names.  Bill, Bob, and Jebidiah are retired, but will live on in legend forever.  (I'm pretty sure they new guys map up to the old personalities by window slot, but I can't really tell.)

So yeah, it's experiment time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 01, 2012, 08:26:38 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on March 01, 2012, 08:21:50 pm
-New Kerbonauts?!  Yep, to accommodate the multiple craft thing, there's now a roster of crewmen (apparently), with suitable names.  Bill, Bob, and Jebidiah are retired, but will live on in legend forever.  (I'm pretty sure they new guys map up to the old personalities by window slot, but I can't really tell.)
NOOOOOOOO!

But oh man, new version. I'll have to scrape some dollars together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on March 01, 2012, 08:30:53 pm
Nah, they aren't retired, they just got promoted to mission control for all of their great work.

And you only had to pay $7 for the pre-preorder before, so woo for me saving 3 bucks :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Squanto on March 01, 2012, 08:34:51 pm
I accidnetally the everything before I realized that my 5 year old flight sim yoke wasn't calibrated properly because it had been sitting on its side for most of that time.  Flew like a true hero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on March 01, 2012, 08:41:07 pm
First problem I've noticed?  The lander legs are too short, considerably shorter than any of the rocket motors, so you can't have engines on the bottom when landing.  This is fine for in-atmosphere because you have parachutes (judging by the default craft, that's how it was tested), but it makes them useless for a lunar lander.

Quote from: Aklyon on March 01, 2012, 08:30:53 pm
Nah, they aren't retired, they just got promoted to mission control for all of their great work.

And you only had to pay $7 for the pre-preorder before, so woo for me saving 3 bucks :P

I thought so too.  Apparently, they reneg'd and you'll have to donate three more dollars for it to still count as preordering.  That, or either them or I fucked up somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on March 01, 2012, 08:45:14 pm
Well, theres two fixes to that problem:
1. Tell them that they're too short
2. Mods!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 01, 2012, 08:55:31 pm
I was like, OHMIGOSH UPDATE!, until I realized I couldn't find it.
Yeah, I found it now :P

Anyways, trying it out, woo!

EDIT: How does one get the lander legs to deploy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 01, 2012, 10:12:50 pm
Quote from: Twi on March 01, 2012, 08:55:31 pm

EDIT: How does one get the lander legs to deploy?
G key
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 01, 2012, 10:16:42 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on March 01, 2012, 08:41:07 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on March 01, 2012, 08:30:53 pm
Nah, they aren't retired, they just got promoted to mission control for all of their great work.

And you only had to pay $7 for the pre-preorder before, so woo for me saving 3 bucks :P

I thought so too.  Apparently, they reneg'd and you'll have to donate three more dollars for it to still count as preordering.  That, or either them or I fucked up somewhere.

I only donated $7 and can download the new version.

The way the store is set up though is slightly confusing. I had to go into my profile to actually download the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on March 01, 2012, 10:21:34 pm
When I did it (the really early store version), you had to put 7 as the "quantity" because it was mislabeled or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on March 01, 2012, 10:35:46 pm
Quote from: sluissa on March 01, 2012, 10:16:42 pm
The way the store is set up though is slightly confusing. I had to go into my profile to actually download the game.

Ah, I couldn't find a download option anywhere, but it said I had already donated $7.  When I donated another three, I got an email with a download link.  Oh well, so it goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 01, 2012, 10:41:44 pm
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7648.0
Quote
Click on Store, login, click on Profile, scroll to bottom, click on Download, click 0.14 download button.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 02, 2012, 08:26:36 am
I would wish i could get this game but i cant buy it.
I WANT TO TRY MULTICRAFT FEATURE GOD DAMNIT

I have been following this game since 0.8 or so :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 02, 2012, 11:07:46 am
There are currently a lot of problems still. At the moment, I've got so many parts left over on the pad from rockets that have fallen apart before takeoff that I can't get any more rockets out onto the pad, even with the "cleanup launch area" button. Also, yeah, the legs are way too fragile and in my opinion, too short. They only extend about half way down the engine if you place them right above it. This necessitates a needlessly wide and heavy lander so you can place your legs at the same level or below the lowest engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on March 02, 2012, 02:27:09 pm
Didn't they say that this was a experimental release, though?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 02, 2012, 03:09:50 pm
Yeah, I'm not really complaining.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 03, 2012, 02:47:53 am
Quote from: Taz on March 02, 2012, 10:50:37 am
When they fix the lander legs, I think I will seriously consider buying this.

Sounds like a really fun update.

there is still the preorder discount, if you're interested, probably you should look into that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 06, 2012, 03:25:46 am
So today I tried to orbit Mun...and ended up orbiting the sun instead. I was practically a new planet, having very little fuel left and never quite syncing up with Kerbin. Finally gave up after nearly 500 days going around and around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 06, 2012, 07:22:37 pm
15$ for so much fun and FUN is really a great bargain  :D

In 0.14 the days of leaving your poor kerbonauts lost in space without fuel or parachute to return safety, the new multicraft feature is awesome for rescuing the poor guys, while generating more FUN!

Here is one of my rescue attempts  8)

Spoiler: My thug ship (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Approaching disabled Munmission vessel for crew extraction (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Im gonna NOM you (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Twice the crew twice the FUN! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: FUN begins... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Full concentration (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Safe? (click to show/hide)

In retrospect the new features (multicraft and landing gear) are both buggy and clunky to use atm but i'm really looking forward to next release and mods! (this flight was done with vanilla parts)

As its stands right now all multicraft info is stored uncompressed in persistent.sfs file so its actually possible to exchange that file to do "DF-like" multiplayer hehe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 06, 2012, 07:28:53 pm
Ohai official version, didn't see you there.

Multicraft shall be amaaaaaaaaazing! :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on March 06, 2012, 07:58:24 pm
Quote from: Nao on March 06, 2012, 07:22:37 pm
Spoiler: Safe? (click to show/hide)

Good Lord, you've actually managed to do something NASA never has, all without the aid of any actual coupling.  My hat to you, astronaut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 06, 2012, 08:06:48 pm
Blargh, I forgot how to screenshot! D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 09, 2012, 10:58:54 am
The Keagle has landed!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just made a Mun mission and successful return... well, kinda successful, the lander stage fell on the other side of the planet from the space center, the final burn for the powered landing was started too late, and the crew had to ditch the lander and hope the chute opened (some 200 meters off the ground), going just 10 meters/second faster than is safe to land at. Everyone survived, but all that remained of the lander was a single leg, which also promptly exploded for some contrived reason. In retrospect, using RCS could have just helped me enough, but I was too busy watching the speed and altitude numbers count down to remember it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: monk12 on March 09, 2012, 01:08:04 pm
Heh. Keggle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on March 09, 2012, 01:50:59 pm
Anyone got some hints on how to leave the atmosphere?
I aways seem to crash the rocket because it starts tilting too much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 01:53:54 pm
Quote from: Ultimuh on March 09, 2012, 01:50:59 pm
Anyone got some hints on how to leave the atmosphere?
I aways seem to crash the rocket because it starts tilting too much.

SAS is your friend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 09, 2012, 01:55:02 pm
So stabilization, basically.
There are more or less three ways:
SAS is a gyroscope. It slows down tilting, pure and simple. Best when put near center of gravity. Also, you can turn it on or off.
 
Fins provide directional stability in atmosphere, which is fairly self-explanatory. Some of them can be used to maneuver as well.

ASAS uses the same buttons as SAS but is actually an autopilot: they use controllable fins, vectoring thrust engines (I think) and RCS (if RCS is on) to keep the rocket from turning. Don't have multiples, because they over-correct and do strange things. Things that will cause crashing. That said, having one is immensely helpful.

You can also theoretically provide stability by spinning, something I have very little experience in. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 09, 2012, 02:49:47 pm
Spinning works on the same principle as a bicycle. As long as you're spinning on one axis, you stay stable on the other ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 09, 2012, 02:50:10 pm
Also, keep your speed down in the lower atmosphere. anything over 100-ish m/s (depending upon rocket design) below about 4000 meters will make it hard to control.

You're pushing from the bottom of the rocket, generally. You have drag at the top, if the drag pressure exceeds what you're able to correct with via SAS, RCS, fins, or manual input, then the top of the rocket will want to end up behind the engines, which will put you into a difficult to control tumble. Keep your speed low when the atmosphere is thick, this will keep your drag low, and the rocket controllable. Extra parts can increase your control, but they're ultimately extra weight.

There is probably a balance between parts and speed you can figure out on your own, I wouldn't know the best combination. I just know I keep my speed between 60-80 m/s for the first minute or two of the launch and I stay in control with few or no extra parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 09, 2012, 03:50:25 pm
The general idea is to have the rocket be wider at the bottom. This'll prevent it from tipping over due to drag. Look at my latest rig, for instance:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's perfectly stable, even after the booster stages accidentally rip the stabilizing fins off when decoupling. Speaking of which, I really should do something about that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 09, 2012, 04:21:18 pm
It also appears you've got a dozen and a half or so of those thrust vectoring engines, and an ASAS, which also help a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 09, 2012, 04:57:44 pm
A dozen and a half is correct, but they are all boosters, first to go (they're mainly to keep as much control as possible on egress). The central column is standard thrusters, so there is only minimal steering, aided by the RCS ring up top. ASAS is a must for any rocket of a decent size anyway (not to mention lander modules), so all in all it's the shape itself that lets the rocket keep its balance the most. If it were much top-heavier, it'd topple in atmosphere, ASAS or no.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 09, 2012, 04:58:30 pm
I never fly without an ASAS. Perhaps I'm just a noob, but it's very difficult for me to correct my path if things start to go wrong (in atmo, at least), so it's best to prevent things from going wrong in the first place.

I have made it to the Mun, but a proper orbit eludes me. The best I managed to do is crash and die on the munar surface. The worst is my previously-mentioned solar orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 10, 2012, 04:11:55 am
Yeah, ASAS is crucial, whether you are a noob or not. The best place to put it is either on the lander stage, or directly under it, so that you have it for as long as possible. It helps immensely on lander stages, because you'll want very precise control for maneuvering, and ASAS will allow you that.

Spoiler: Long explanation on getting to the Mun and back (click to show/hide)

And speaking of going to the Mun:
Spoiler: Whoever told the mission crew to "break a leg" ought to be caught and shot. Or fired. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Due to (superficial) damage to the lander egress module, the lander will make the return trip by its lonesome (click to show/hide)
Thankfully, despite taking 12 days longer than necessary, the crew returned to Kerbin safely. But the Lander didn't survive. Again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on March 10, 2012, 08:19:40 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 10, 2012, 04:11:55 am
It's all about luck and/or timing.

Here's a very simple way to time your transmunar insertion: Get yourself into a parking orbit around Kerbin, orbiting eastward. Ideally it should be circular and just above 70k. Point your rocket in the direction of travel and watch the horizon. As soon as you see the Mun start to rise over the horizon, punch it. Cut thrust when your apoapsis is within 1k meters of Mun's orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 10, 2012, 10:14:01 am
Quote from: Sordid on March 10, 2012, 08:19:40 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 10, 2012, 04:11:55 am
It's all about luck and/or timing.

Here's a very simple way to time your transmunar insertion: Get yourself into a parking orbit around Kerbin, orbiting eastward. Ideally it should be circular and just above 70k. Point your rocket in the direction of travel and watch the horizon. As soon as you see the Mun start to rise over the horizon, punch it. Cut thrust when your apoapsis is within 1k meters of Mun's orbit.
I'll try that when I next go to the Mun. In the meantime, I've set myself up a different pastime. The pastime is assembling a Space Station in orbit, or at least a mockup of one. Or at the very least get two vessels joined together. Naturally, this is impossible to do properly without docking, but what about sheer dwarven Kerbal ingenuity? Behold, the Flying Claw:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have NO idea how I'll manage to catch the other ship (it's in a 65-85k orbit, going two point something km/sec on average), not to mention how, and whether or no the claw thing will even work, but I intend to find out. ;D

So far the biggest trouble has been keeping the fuel load balanced. I might forgo using the other side tank as a fuel source entirely, and just fit another claw to it, but I want to try something as nonconventional as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2012, 10:29:57 am
Is it possible to land this without decoupling?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 10, 2012, 10:32:22 am
My first instinct would be: No. You need more landing legs.

But I've never gotten to the moon myself, I always miss. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2012, 10:36:48 am
Quote from: Twi on March 10, 2012, 10:32:22 am
My first instinct would be: No. You need more landing legs.

But I've never gotten to the moon myself, I always miss. :P

FTFY

Those aren't landing legs, they're struts that didn't come off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2012, 11:18:25 am
The good news: I got my kerbins to the moon in one piece.

Spoiler: The bad news: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on March 10, 2012, 11:25:27 am
Quote from: Japa on March 10, 2012, 10:36:48 am
Quote from: Twi on March 10, 2012, 10:32:22 am
My first instinct would be: No. You need more landing legs.

But I've never gotten to the moon myself, I always miss. :P

FTFY

Those aren't landing legs, they're struts that didn't come off.

Lol.

Quote from: Japa on March 10, 2012, 11:18:25 am
The good news: I got my kerbins to the moon in one piece.

Spoiler: The bad news: (click to show/hide)

DoubleLol.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 10, 2012, 11:25:57 am
Quote from: Japa on March 10, 2012, 10:36:48 am
Quote from: Twi on March 10, 2012, 10:32:22 am
My first instinct would be: No. You need more landing legs.

But I've never gotten to the moon myself, I always miss. :P

FTFY

Those aren't landing legs, they're struts that didn't come off.

:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 10, 2012, 03:36:24 pm
the reentry lander testing failed:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


how so? it seems safely and succesfully landed!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 10, 2012, 04:07:49 pm
Press G to deploy landing legs, by the way. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 10, 2012, 04:11:26 pm
they indeed deployed. got trashed on impact. all four of them  :P

this is how it looks in it's first voyage outside of the atmosphere:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the struts bugged somehow. it seems common in the .14 version. I hope they won't get in the way of the landing

edit:
Spoiler: no they don't (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 12, 2012, 10:24:57 am
What was the most ludicrous rocket design that you've ever gotten into orbit?

For me, it's this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Utterly single-stage, in that it achieves orbit without staging, though it does disintegrate into stages spectacularly to allow the capsule to return.

My next project is to put a mini-mecha lander on the Mun. I've clearly been playing too much Super Robot Taisen J lately. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 12, 2012, 10:41:13 am
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=8021.0

have you looked at that plugin? it automates everything which is difficult within the game: it makes it unbelievably boring, but it's a nice aid and could be used effectively to learn the ropes.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=8449.0

this one goes even further, automating orbit injection: enable it, press spacebar, watch your craft go into orbit. a very nice monkey see monkey do tutorial for orbital ascent, but as the other plugin it feels like cheating and removes the fun out of the game (to me at least) so use them sparingly  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 12, 2012, 10:55:35 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 12, 2012, 10:41:13 am
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=8021.0

have you looked at that plugin? it automates everything which is difficult within the game: it makes it unbelievably boring, but it's a nice aid and could be used effectively to learn the ropes.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=8449.0

this one goes even further, automating orbit injection: enable it, press spacebar, watch your craft go into orbit. a very nice monkey see monkey do tutorial for orbital ascent, but as the other plugin it feels like cheating and removes the fun out of the game (to me at least) so use them sparingly  :P
Heh, I'd like to see how those plugins handle my robot. It's got a quirk, the arms act as boosters, and when they are on the last tank, the center of mass shifts so that ASAS can't keep up, and it very nearly flips itself over - but as soon as it's done this pirouette, the arms run out of fuel, and the main leg engines right the thing and resume normal flight. Advanced aerobatic maneuvers! ;D

I simply adore this kind of game, you build whatever you want and then do whatever you want with it. Right now I want to test whether I can land this robot, it's got a sixpack of lander legs in each leg, so, theoretically... Unfortunately, the all-at-once landing leg control means its antennae will fold down when it'll be landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Boksi on March 12, 2012, 10:58:03 am
Theoretically, you can land that thing.

Theoretically, you can flip a coin and have it balance on its edge.

Still, it's neat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 12, 2012, 12:52:59 pm
Report on landing attempt:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, even though the Pilder was ejected, the machine hit it in passing and all crewmembers were lost.

Bottom line: it is possible to land that robot! I needed to reinforce the hip joints so that it wouldn't break so easily, but in this test, there was a touchdown at roughly 5m/s, and the lander legs held! And nothing broke off, though the drift was far too great, and there are definite problems with fine steering on this thing, which led to the whole machine tipping over and flying away as I tried to regain control. Losing faith in that, I ejected the Pilder - which is the little booster-equipped thingy with the capsule mounted on the crotch - but I couldn't get it clear before one of the legs just smashed the thing to pieces. All in all, the experiment was mostly a success. I just need a whole damn lot of RCS thrusters all over, to correct drift.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on March 12, 2012, 03:34:23 pm
That just makes me more and more interested in a 'Space mecha' mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on March 14, 2012, 04:37:43 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 12, 2012, 12:52:59 pm
and there are definite problems with fine steering on this thing, which led to the whole machine tipping over and flying away as I tried to regain control.

If you're using a keyboard, hit caps lock to change the way the controls work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 14, 2012, 05:36:36 am
Anyone have a link to the guide posted earlier on 'How to reach the Mun'?

Someone should really collect all of these into a wiki or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 14, 2012, 05:38:41 am
Quote from: Peewee on March 14, 2012, 04:37:43 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 12, 2012, 12:52:59 pm
and there are definite problems with fine steering on this thing, which led to the whole machine tipping over and flying away as I tried to regain control.

If you're using a keyboard, hit caps lock to change the way the controls work.
It's more of a "not enough response, too much momentum" problem. Needs more rotation force. Lately, there's also the problem that its mere existence seems to go against the laws of physics. Anytime I try to spawn it, there's a 50% chance of its legs breaking and the whole thing blowing up (at 1 FPS), and 45% chance of it simply blowing up for no discernible reason (again, at 1 FPS). When it does spawn normally, there's a 75% chance of ridiculous slowdowns, to about 2 FPS. At other times, it operates normally, and smooth as can be, so it's not a mere "overcomplexity" problem. It doesn't have all that many parts, either, I think my Spaceboom 5 lunar rocket has more, and it never has these problems.

Here's the craft file (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Roboboom%20MkIV.craft), test it out and see if you have the same issues.

Here's one for Spaceboom 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Spaceboom%205.craft) too, I think it's a great rocket in general.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on March 14, 2012, 12:52:39 pm
The last ship I made exploded when I detached the SRB's. They hit the main engine and exploded it. Cry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 14, 2012, 12:58:02 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on March 14, 2012, 12:52:39 pm
The last ship I made exploded when I detached the SRB's. They hit the main engine and exploded it. CryLaugh.
FTFY.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lap on March 14, 2012, 02:27:44 pm
This whole game reminds me of the hilarious catastrophe's when playing GMod's Spacebuild mode.

(Some broken links here, but most of it is still good).

http://stc-gmod.110mb.com/chronicles.php
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on March 14, 2012, 02:48:44 pm
Any parts addons that are recomended and up to date with the latest version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 14, 2012, 03:03:54 pm
mechjeb!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on March 15, 2012, 02:04:16 am
Now that there's persistence, I'm going to create as large of a debris field as I can in a particular orbit... 25km above the Mun sounds good to me.
Then I'll go the other direction in a ship and see how quickly it gets destroyed.

Someone made a ship for this purpose (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7640.msg115261#msg115261), but I don't know if it can reach the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trevasaurus on March 22, 2012, 11:16:28 pm
So I built a space station out of parts from various mods and had a go and placing it in orbit around Kerbal. After some !FUN! involving boosters and a lack of support struts SpaceStation1 (good name right? :P) is a success.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After strapping a few more rockets on (and countless explosive lift-offs) MoonBase1 is a go!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Loving this game already and there is so much more fun on the horizon. When they add support for real space stations this will be an instant buy from me. Judging by the recent plug-ins being developed the modding community for this game is going to come up with some really impressive additions while we are waiting for official updates.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 24, 2012, 06:09:59 am
Report on that giant flying mecha thing. I've finally solved its spontaneous explodification problem, and now I've resolved to try and land it. For now, parachute-assisted, because it's ridiculously hard to kill drift without electronic assistance.

Spoiler: Lifting to projected height, cutting engines (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Deploying parachutes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Beginning deceleration (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Touchdown in three, two... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ...one! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Landing struts up, celebratory jig engaged! (click to show/hide)
:D

I may have slightly cheated, in that the first attempt kinda fell over (I didn't cut thrust quickly enough... and I forgot the X key...), so I did another mission after revising some staging, but on the overall, SUCCESS!! :D Now I just need a booster pack to get it to the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Haspen on April 13, 2012, 03:44:55 pm
After Moslyp rockets (boosters only, also exploded a lot) and then Mosilus rockets (liquid rockets with boosters at the very start, very heavy), I call success in reaching 1 million kilometers with Marius-type rocket. History of projects time:

Marius-1 had tri-stack of liquid fuel rockets, 2 tanks high, and only two side boosters at the top of main rocket.
First rocket to get above 'dark-blue' atmosphere.

/me discovers 'stability rules', auto-SAS button and reinforcing with metal rods.

Marius-2 was like above, just reinforced and with another 'level' of liquid fuel tanks.
Height reached: around 420.000 meters.

/me discovers TOGGLE KEYS.

With above discovery, I managed to do a four-stack rocket, using normal decouplers on SAS module, instead of tricoupler with decoupler on top. That was Marius-3, and with careful toggle'ing of main rocket, it managed to get somehwere 710.000 meters.

I've noticed that there was empty space right below the SAS module-decoupler mechanism, so I stuffed booster under it. Lo and behold, so is Marius-4 created. And then, I've 'mastered' stage buttons, so the sequence was like this:
1.Main liquid quadruple-rocket stack.
2.Main rocket's side boosters.
3.Bottom booster.
4.Main rocket, with lot's of toggling (higher altitude = less fuel burn).

I was so happy when I reached 1.000.000+ meters with it <3!

Spoiler: Marius-4 in it's full glory (click to show/hide)

Next stop: leaving the orbit. I'm going to either longify the quadruple stacks, or convert them into sextuple-stacks. For symmetry (oh gods I love symmetry), I would add another side booster at main rocket.

PS: I'm playing this game for ~6 hours or so, and I already love it! If only I could get the newest version...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on April 14, 2012, 12:37:42 am
So now there's a heightmap of the Mun being worked on by at least 7 players. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=10324
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2012, 02:29:11 am
Nice! Is there a monolith map too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 25, 2012, 01:47:00 am
So.... how close is the Mun?

I've crashed into the Mun several times due to looking at my height meter and crashing into a mountain!
And i find it very difficult to actually see how close the surface is.

any tips on accurately determining how high above the moon surface you are?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on April 25, 2012, 04:35:45 am
Depends on where you land. I showed off a map in my last post, though it didn't actually have a guide to the colors. Hmm. The white 'hotspots' are up to around 3300m, while the darkest blue spots are closer to 100m or so.

As for tips: look at the horizon instead of straight down, using the navball to zero your horizontal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 25, 2012, 07:50:11 am
I managed to land on the Mun for my first time yesterday, very proud of myself. There is the slight issue of hitting the ground with too much horizontal momentum, causing the rocket to fall over and collapse, rendering the brave Kerbonauts stranded, but they seem happy enough about it. I do have a few questions, though.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on April 25, 2012, 10:22:08 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 25, 2012, 07:50:11 am
Is there any way to find out how much your craft weighs other than adding up the mass values for every individual part, manually?

Not within the game, and I don't know of any external utility that could read ship files and calculate that sort of thing.

Quote
How do you get debris out of orbit, when there is no command capsule to take control of and end the flight?

By manually editing the presistent.sfs file in notepad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 25, 2012, 10:27:14 am
I think lander legs can withstand ~5m/s, but you're better off around 1-2.  It is in fact an extremely soft landing, you shouldn't even know you've touched down it's so soft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 25, 2012, 11:57:29 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 25, 2012, 10:27:14 am
I think lander legs can withstand ~5m/s, but you're better off around 1-2.  It is in fact an extremely soft landing, you shouldn't even know you've touched down it's so soft.

Interesting. Do other rocket parts have a higher tolerance? The rocket I landed on the moon hit the surface at 30m/s, though it's survival may have been due to the horizontal momentum making it kind of skid/bounce rather than just one impact.

My follow-up mission did not do so well, with a landing impact speed of 400m/s :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 25, 2012, 11:59:53 am
General touchdown should be <15m/s I believe, parachutes help and the capsule is pretty tough, so it can withstand a bit of a faster impact, but look at the actual moon landing footage.  They touched down at I think .5m/s at the end.  So yeah, always go slower than you're going, always.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on April 25, 2012, 12:49:28 pm
Quote from: Chattox on April 25, 2012, 07:50:11 am
I managed to land on the Mun for my first time yesterday, very proud of myself. There is the slight issue of hitting the ground with too much horizontal momentum, causing the rocket to fall over and collapse, rendering the brave Kerbonauts stranded, but they seem happy enough about it. I do have a few questions, though.

  • Is there any way to find out how much your craft weighs other than adding up the mass values for every individual part, manually?
  • Roughly how hard can you land on lander legs before they break and your ship explodes?
  • How do you get debris out of orbit, when there is no command capsule to take control of and end the flight?
1. Yep. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=9917.0
2. "Impact Tolerance" is supposedly how fast it can hit something without exploding, but you also have to factor in the strength of the connection with the rest of the lander. Aim for < 5m/s and you'll do fine. Oh, and don't panic. If you're panicking but have plenty of fuel, abort (gun it for a couple of seconds) and try to land again.
3. How do I? I launch my debris hauler, 'dock' with the debris, and change its trajectory to intersect Kerbin or Mun. You can also just delete the debris from persistence.sfs if you prefer the easy way out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 25, 2012, 01:29:28 pm
I set my settings to "keep debris" on the lowest setting, like 5 pieces or so I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: borno on April 25, 2012, 09:32:57 pm
Erm, I have been playing the vanilla game for a while, abut then decided to get the more parts. However, In building mode I can't select some of the parts, and in flying mode, my craft keeps falling apart. Is it a bug? Has this happened to anyone else?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on April 26, 2012, 02:36:26 am
... Which 'more parts' ?
If you mean the one in the OP, that was made for a now very old version. Look through the KSP forums for parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 26, 2012, 05:00:00 am
The debris staying is part of the full version - or a mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 26, 2012, 05:05:00 am
part of the latest release

they stay, you can hit them, you can leave a whole craft in space and resume the flight later and this kid of things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zehive on May 06, 2012, 04:52:25 am
Latest accomplishment was, for me, playing the demo and managing to boost myself out of a Kerbol orbit. Took a really big rocket to get all the stages and fuel i wanted up there, and a crapload of time to get in two revolutions of the star, turning up the throttle when i reached periapsis. Munar landing has proven difficult since I can't seem to get rocket controls down well enough to get myself in an orbit around Kerbin so i can get a correct trajectory with the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 12, 2012, 04:59:14 am
playing the latest free version, I had a great unexpected success.

I was testing a rocket to lift cargo into orbit. The target was to park a spacecraft with 2 fuel tanks into a low orbit just beyond atmosphere.
In this latest test I added boosters, and succeeded in leaving the spacecraft orbiting with 2 almost full fuel tanks.
but when looking at orbital view to adjust the orbit into a circular one, I noticed that I was on an orbit perfectly aligned with that of the mun. I had 2 fuel tanks left, so I sent my orbiter higher and higher, until the flight path intersected mun orbit. Then I got caught by its gravity.
Sadly, fuel was running out, so I knew they would be stranded there. as it turns out, however, it wasn't a problem. Fuel ran out a few hundred meters above surface, and the module crashed.

Still, not bad for a craft that should have never left low orbit!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 05:00:54 am
 Boosters, an elegant weapon, for a more civilized age
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 12, 2012, 05:04:44 am
now that I ran out of space for boosters, I am wondering if external fuel tanks would work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 05:11:04 am
Quote from: andrea on May 12, 2012, 05:04:44 am
now that I ran out of space for boosters, I am wondering if external fuel tanks would work.

can't remember if .13 had fuel lines.. if it has, you can attach them over the radial mounted boosters and make a line toward the main engine
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 12, 2012, 05:14:16 am
yes, it has them. I only wonder if it is worth using them without totally redesigning the rocket. it is rather suboptimal at the moment. ( as suboptimal a LEO vehicle that can reach the moon can be, at any rate).

I guess I'll toy with the idea a bit. maybe replace some boosters with fuel tanks.

edit: reached a ( almost) perfectly circular orbit at 254k meters, +-800!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 05:17:41 am
a contrived sample


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

when you drop the booster, you also drop the fuel; this way you are up midair with fuel tanks filled up. remember to stage the engines so that they turn on with the boosters at liftoff!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 12, 2012, 05:29:28 am
fuel tanks on top of boosters... interesting.
I might try them, although they may turn out to be too heavy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 12, 2012, 07:46:48 am
Just downloaded 13, having fun so far, But how do i get the turial to turn on?
I tried the settings and it seems turned on but i'm not seeing anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 12, 2012, 09:20:53 am
after failing to improve the previous rocket design, I tried a new one.

managed to achieve a stable lunar orbit between 110k and 90k m ( didn't want to waste fuel to make a perfect circle).
Then I somehow managed to get the craft back to kerbin, and thanks to a very good parachute they all survived!
I suppose we won't need those new graves near the launch pad after all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 12, 2012, 10:02:56 am
I finally achieved orbit.... and then some, Kerbins are currently leaving the solar system at 2km/s :/
EDIT: Now 2000km out from kerbin, speed is slowing, down now to 1.7km/s, it's possible they may intersect the mun's orbit in about an hour.
EDIT: So it seems i've achieved a stable orbit somewhat coincident with kerbin, Twice a year the craft and it's frozen vacuum dessicated occupents will cross kerbin's orbit, maybe oneday it'll be intercepted allowing teh crew to come home with their remains incinerated in the atmosphere
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 10:03:59 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 12, 2012, 10:02:56 am
I finally achieved orbit.... and then some, Kerbins are currently leaving the solar system at 2km/s :/
go team rocket!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on May 12, 2012, 10:50:56 am
Not team galactic? ;)

Just finished a rudimentary satellite network with 7 LKO, 1 GEO and 2 Munar comsats, with near continuous coverage at orbital altitude. I'm satisfied.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 12:41:11 pm
a sensible design

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

can only be improved by bigger boosters

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 12, 2012, 12:49:35 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 12:41:11 pm
a sensible design

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

can only be improved by bigger boosters

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mods? Or newest version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2012, 12:51:53 pm
0.14.4 + mods; parts are mostly from sillisko and c7 aereospace; there is the beta landing gear too.

it uses the engineer plugin to calculate the trust to weight ratio in the first screen, the mumech autopilot plugin to provide all kind of info in the second screen
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on May 12, 2012, 01:23:25 pm
Mechjeb, best thing to happen to orbital piloting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kingfisher1112 on May 13, 2012, 08:42:08 am
I love the NovaPunch remix pack for this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 13, 2012, 08:51:26 am
Im having a hard time of getting lined up and at the correct speed for moon landings. I rely way too much on SAS too get me into space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on May 13, 2012, 09:14:13 am
For a touchdown landing you'll want the small size of liquid engine.  You pretty much need 1x fuel tank, 1x small engine, and 3x landing legs as your ONLY gear, in order to land.  Or add a mechjeb, it'll still work.  The main issue is to go straight down - with your nav ball fully orange/brown and facing the exact top - and to go VERY slow.  The absolute slowest you can manage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 13, 2012, 09:53:27 am
Downloading the nova punch pack, Also playing around with stupidly large and complicated vanilla rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on May 13, 2012, 11:35:41 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on May 13, 2012, 09:14:13 am
For a touchdown landing you'll want the small size of liquid engine.  You pretty much need 1x fuel tank, 1x small engine, and 3x landing legs as your ONLY gear, in order to land.  Or add a mechjeb, it'll still work.  The main issue is to go straight down - with your nav ball fully orange/brown and facing the exact top - and to go VERY slow.  The absolute slowest you can manage.

Also if you have problems with high center of gravity i.e. falling on one side with the slightest lateral velocity or sloping, you can try with 3x small fuel tanks laterally mounted to the stage decoupler below the return stage on triple symmetry, with a small engine and two to three landing legs on each. Locking SAS on will also help.

Maybe there will be proper RCS lateral translation ala Orbiter for things like this. Some day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2012, 01:07:37 pm
? what's wrong with rcs controls? (apart you never know which direction is currently mapped to your jhku keys)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 13, 2012, 03:55:02 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2012, 01:07:37 pm
(apart you never know which direction is currently mapped to your jhku keys)

that seems a quite big problem actually...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 13, 2012, 03:58:54 pm
Im having trouble knowing what direction is which in space. Is there a way to chose a point on the map and have it appear on your nav ball?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eagle_eye on May 13, 2012, 04:22:15 pm
I can't get anything into orbit around kerbin. All of my ships end up crashing or orbiting the sun.  :\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 13, 2012, 04:30:38 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on May 13, 2012, 03:58:54 pm
Im having trouble knowing what direction is which in space. Is there a way to chose a point on the map and have it appear on your nav ball?

No.

Quote from: Eagle_eye on May 13, 2012, 04:22:15 pm
I can't get anything into orbit around kerbin. All of my ships end up crashing or orbiting the sun.  :\

Go straight up at first to get out of the thick atmosphere, then gradually pitch down to horizontal once you hit 10k meters altitude. Your aims is for the rocket to travel horizontally (i.e. yellow indicator on the nav ball just on the horizon) at about 2400 m/s at about 70k meters altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: vaaern on May 13, 2012, 05:06:54 pm
Got a quick question; when in orbit, should I stay going round the earth? cause that doesn't happen, I just fall back down :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: head on May 13, 2012, 05:21:37 pm
Quote from: vaaern on May 13, 2012, 05:06:54 pm
Got a quick question; when in orbit, should I stay going round the earth? cause that doesn't happen, I just fall back down :(

In physics, an orbit is the gravitationally curved path of an object around a point in space, for example the orbit of a planet around the center of a star system, such as the Solar System.[1][2] Orbits of planets are typically elliptical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on May 13, 2012, 05:24:14 pm
I now want to build a rocket so powerful I could change the orbits of planets at will.

Oh, the kerbailty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 13, 2012, 05:27:05 pm
Keep in mind that flying straight up doesn't put you into orbit (well, maybe if you went far enough, though you'd be more likely to simply fly away). You need to tilt your spacecraft to the side until you're nearly parallel to the ground and continue boosting until the blue line on the map screen makes a complete circle. Only then can you be considered to be in orbit.

Quote from: LordSlowpoke on May 13, 2012, 05:24:14 pm
I now want to build a rocket so powerful I could change the orbits of planets at will.

Oh, the kerbailty.
I don't think you can do that in this game :|
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 13, 2012, 05:56:56 pm
Quote from: vaaern on May 13, 2012, 05:06:54 pm
Got a quick question; when in orbit, should I stay going round the earth? cause that doesn't happen, I just fall back down :(

That means you're not going fast enough. You need more horizontal speed.

Quote from: Sirus on May 13, 2012, 05:27:05 pm
Keep in mind that flying straight up doesn't put you into orbit (well, maybe if you went far enough, though you'd be more likely to simply fly away).

If you go up at the right location you might possibly be able to reach one of the Lagrange points and stop there, though the odds of pulling that off are pretty slim (or actually zero in KSP, since the game doesn't have Lagrange points). Other than that specific scenario, you'd either fall back down or fly away if you reached escape velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on May 13, 2012, 06:06:00 pm
Orbit is not reaching a height and sitting there.  Orbit is when you fall towards the ground so fast that you miss - constantly.  The aim is not to achieve specific altitude, but instead to achieve sufficient horizontal movement that as you fall, you're moving so fast that your landing point is over the horizon.

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.  Try to fly so fast towards the east or west that your crash point is beyond the horizon.  Once you achieve that, then your ballistic trajectory stops being an arc and starts becoming a circle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on May 13, 2012, 06:44:53 pm
If air resistance was negligible and the planet was perfectly spherical, you could orbit 1 foot off the ground if you were going fast enough (and your vehicle/body wouldn't melt under the forces involved, but lets not belabor the point).

no I'm not a physicist.  Let's assume the cow is a perfect cube.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 13, 2012, 09:34:22 pm
Assuming you get and keep the momentum from the planet's spin as you launch, you could theoretically launch straight up into a geosynchronous orbit or a similar but slightly eccentric orbit since you probably couldn't get it perfect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2012, 09:43:02 pm
Quote from: Rez on May 13, 2012, 06:44:53 pm
If air resistance was negligible and the planet was perfectly spherical, you could orbit 1 foot off the ground if you were going fast enough (and your vehicle/body wouldn't melt under the forces involved, but lets not belabor the point).

no I'm not a physicist.  Let's assume the cow is a perfect cube.

on mun it works. you just have to dodge muntains
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on May 13, 2012, 11:10:35 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on May 13, 2012, 09:34:22 pm
Assuming you get and keep the momentum from the planet's spin as you launch, you could theoretically launch straight up into a geosynchronous orbit or a similar but slightly eccentric orbit since you probably couldn't get it perfect.

That would not be possible and you are confusing angular velocity with linear velocity. You need to move faster than the ground moves linearly to achieve geosynchronous orbit.

Any launch straight up will either auger in at some time(perigee below the surface), or achieve escape velocity. At least when assuming instantous acceleration, no outside influence and spherical cow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 14, 2012, 02:29:24 am
EZ way to get into orbit around Kerbin:

1: Fly straight up until you are out of the atmosphere.(you can see the thickness of the atmosphere right below the height counter.)

2: timewarp until you are at the top of your trajectory.(just before you hit the apoapsis)

3: use the navball to point the craft at your direction of travel. this is the yellow circle on the navball. alternatively if you take too much time and are falling back to earth, point the craft at the horizon.

4: Burn fuel until you get into orbit.

TIPS and TRICKS:
You can control the craft from the map view if you press the little arrow in the bottom of the screen.

NAVBALL: i took a long time to learn how to use the navball, and spacetravel is impossible without it!
You can fly your craft by only looking at the navball. Press D and the pointer goes right on the navball. Press W and the pointer goes down and so forth.

The navball has 2 dots on it: the yellow dot and the purple dot:
the yellow dot(circle) is the direction your craft is travelling, and the yellow circle with a cross in it, is where you are coming from: this is extremely useful
the purple circle indicates the launchpad, and is good for finding back to earth(if you land on the far side of the moon for instance)

so if you want to make your orbit bigger, you burn in the direction of the yellow circle, and if you want to slow down, and make the orbit smaller, you aim for the yellow circle with a cross in it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 14, 2012, 03:18:27 am
That is an extremely inefficient way of getting into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RulerOfNothing on May 14, 2012, 03:27:27 am
Yeah, you should start going towards horizontal at around 10-12 km up. Don't go fully horizontal until you are about 40-50km up though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 14, 2012, 03:39:57 am
Eh, depends on how fast you're ascending. Some of my more insane rockets go completely horizontal as low as 30 km up, since the momentum from the massive amount of SRBs is enough to fling the thing high enough. Switch to map view, mouse over your apoapsis. Ideally you should go horizontal when your apoapsis is 70 km to get into the lowest stable orbit possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 14, 2012, 04:38:49 am
My guide was for the easiest way to get into orbit, not the most efficient.
and if you are only going for orbit you'll have plenty of fuel to do it.
also, i landed on the Mun and made it back using this method, so extremely inefficient might not be the right word.
and i even took out a lot of power, coz it was unneeded to get to the Mun and back.

slowly slanting the rocket to get an orbit is a lot harder for a beginner.
my inefficient method has the advantage of only requiring 2 burns, both in a fixed direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: vaaern on May 14, 2012, 06:01:40 am
Okay, I was just doing something wrong then :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rift on May 17, 2012, 05:30:15 pm
KSP 0.15 released:
...Spaceplanes.
Quote
New:

* The Spaceplane Hangar Facility, allows you to build vehicles horizontally, and launch them from a Runway
* The Runway Facility, to launch from and land your spaceplanes at.
* A new Part Creation Toolset, allowing for animated models, with normal and emmissive maps.
* A deployable Landing Gear part
* A new AtmosphericEngine part type, and two new air-breathing engines.
* A Patched Conics trajectory projection system, shows your map trajectory as it enters and leaves the SOI of planets and moons.
* Parts now can have a context menu where you can view data and perform actions. (Atmo engines already implement this)
* Parts now visually display their temperatures through a dynamic emmissive heat map.
* It is now possible to manually rotate parts on the VAB and Spaceplane Hangar prior to placement (using the WSADQE keys, Shift, Space to Reset)
* It is now possible to trim the roll, pitch and yaw inputs by holding Alt and pressing the roll, pitch and yaw keys (Alt+X to reset).
* Added a small, far-flung second moon around Kerbin, called Minmus.


Bug Fixes and Tweaks:

* Fixed a security flaw with the updater tool.
* The flight log will no longer show the terrain tile IDs when crashing things into them. It will show the correct "crashed into terrain" message.
* Corrected the level of the ocean quadtree, so that it matches visually with the simulated water level.
* (Possibly) increased performance on the flight scenes (from the terrain tweak also)
* Found and fixed the true cause of the orbit NaN bug. (see last note on this page)
* Corrected the aileron action on ControlSurface parts. Now aileron input is determined based on part orientation instead of symmetry counterparts.
* Fixed an issue with joystick throttle when focusing/unfocusing the game.
* Fixed a problem with fuel lines and struts becoming attached to non-existent parts when reloaded.
* Fixed the behaviour of the Alt key when Alt-Tabbing out of the game.
* It is no longer possible to enter time warp or save the game if the ship is landed or splashed, but still moving.
* Several improvements to the scene lighting in the Spaceplane Hangar and Vehicle Assembly Building.
* Fixed Fuel Lines and Struts not reconnecting once reattached to the ship at the VAB and SPH
* Improved the part dragging on the editor scenes
* After a crash, the end flight dialog will only come up by clicking the left mouse button, hitting Esc or the Space Bar.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 17, 2012, 05:50:05 pm
Glad I bought the game :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on May 17, 2012, 06:44:54 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on May 17, 2012, 05:50:05 pm
Glad I bought the game :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 17, 2012, 06:58:37 pm
About to buy the game.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2012, 07:05:23 pm
Much as I want to buy this game, I'm saving for something else. Curse you, restraint!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on May 17, 2012, 08:36:55 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on May 17, 2012, 05:50:05 pm
Glad I bought the game :D
KSP 0.15 AND DF 34.09 almost on the same day...Well, this just made my day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 18, 2012, 01:59:03 am
Interesting updates, i'll think about getting this now, now while i'm here i've been reading about orbital physics and stuff an i think i can now sucussfully perform a holman transfer to the moon, once i get to grips with Pitch/yaw/roll.
Is there some way of recentering teh camera so the pitch/yaw controls once again line up with the direction of the screen; or something similar?
Also i've been trying to make the largest most unstable rockets i can, most of the time they require very precise adjustments during launch to prevent losing control, oddly enough SAS seems to lose control fairly often.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBeardyMan on May 18, 2012, 02:09:51 am
Just made my first successful orbital flight. The secret is to give your stages the manoeuvring systems appropriate to the environment which they'll be operating, and to learn to read the navigation ball.

By the way, Bill and Bob are wusses. They were screaming for the whole flight, but the only part that they had an excuse to complain about was the 11g parachute deployment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 02:51:04 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 18, 2012, 01:59:03 am
Interesting updates, i'll think about getting this now, now while i'm here i've been reading about orbital physics and stuff an i think i can now sucussfully perform a holman transfer to the moon, once i get to grips with Pitch/yaw/roll.
Is there some way of recentering teh camera so the pitch/yaw controls once again line up with the direction of the screen; or something similar?
Also i've been trying to make the largest most unstable rockets i can, most of the time they require very precise adjustments during launch to prevent losing control, oddly enough SAS seems to lose control fairly often.

camera control is still an unloved feature; but it is not that bad as it is better to use the navball and relative control - learning to have no reference in space helps a lot when planning maneuvers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

the transfer is easy, it's to catch up the target that's hard. luckily 0.15 now shows catch ups graphically
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 04:21:24 am
now that there are three bodies we can actually slingshot from one another.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 18, 2012, 05:47:21 am
Anyone else find the spaceplane cockpits to be absurdly durable? I just plowed one into the side of Minmus and it bounced off and instantly accelerated to 3,000m/s and flew out of Kerbin's gravity well.

Twas hilarious. I think I'll leave it up there for a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 18, 2012, 05:47:31 am
No idea how to use the navball, i'll go look it up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 07:40:50 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 18, 2012, 05:47:31 am
No idea how to use the navball, i'll go look it up.

the horizont is aligned with the current body of reference horizon; the -v- in the center should help you keep your up and down meaningful and represent the direction to which your rocket is facing

there are two yellow gliph. -( )- this is the direction you are going (your rocket may or may not face another way)
the other (x) represent the opposite, is the backward direction of your path

some interesting thing: when -( )- and (x) are on the horizont line, you're either at apoapsis or periapsis.  those are the time you should burn for your orbital changes

to halt horizontal velocity when you're landing, you should make the (x) to move until it's aligned with the 90° pole of your navball (this means you're moving straight down) - to do so, keep your ship in line in the direction you are correcting


-v- (x)  °

where -v- is the direction your nose is, (x) is the backward velocity vector and ° is the navball top center - when you burn in this configuration, the (x) will move toward the °

a nice strategy to land is to keep the -v- aligned with the (x), following it around, so you automatically kill your horizontal velocity and slow for landing.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 18, 2012, 08:27:13 am
I feel somewhat ridiculous. After all my previous success, I can't seem to get a simple plane off the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 09:14:54 am
more wings!! also, you can put them at an angle now. try a slight donward tilt on the trailing edge

like:

Code: [Select]
________
/

but very lightly angled, just a few degrees (this works if the wings are middle mounted, result in very fun result if the wing are rear mounted)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 18, 2012, 10:56:58 am
Yes, and you can even make constructed wings from bits and pieces.

Here's my demi-successful intercontinental ballistic missile jet:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Demi-successful because it didn't quite land. I never got around to testing the braking chute, and realized too late that perhaps just one was a little insufficient. My previous model could land successfully, but it was tested with four. As such, I left a very pretty furrow in the eastern continent's shore. The design with those downward pointing stabilizers didn't help in the circumstances at all. I've since revised it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 18, 2012, 06:50:06 pm
Goddamnit, why doesn't anything I build get off the runway?  Pitch up and down do diddly squat, no matter how many control surfaces I put on this plane, let alone that you can't even use the "control flaps" that came with the update because the models don't snap-to correctly.  There has to be something going wrong here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 18, 2012, 07:36:22 pm
Same here. I cant get off the runway!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 18, 2012, 08:07:22 pm
Spoiler: CLIMB DAMN YOU (click to show/hide)

Apparently, it's harder to get a wing to stay in the air than it is to get a rocket around the moon.  When it comes to aircraft, the smaller the better.  That thing there is my failed third experiment.  It actually worked better with two engines, except it wouldn't keep its fucking nose down.  I actually managed to land it (pretty much by accident), but then it wouldn't stop.

The quad-engine there?  Flies like a brick, can't climb without RCS assistance, and goes all wibbly when I let off the pull.

Spoiler: Fuck planes, I'm sticking to rockets. (click to show/hide)

I think I've figured out, that part of the problem is that planes spawn in the world on the "space center" ground, not on the runway itself.  I'm building planes that fly like bottlerockets, but then won't actually take off until they reach the end of the runway.  The wheels are stuck inside the tarmac object.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 18, 2012, 08:32:37 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 18, 2012, 06:50:06 pm
Goddamnit, why doesn't anything I build get off the runway?  Pitch up and down do diddly squat, no matter how many control surfaces I put on this plane, let alone that you can't even use the "control flaps" that came with the update because the models don't snap-to correctly.  There has to be something going wrong here.

Use WASDQE to rotate parts and make them fit. Shift+WASDQE rotates at 5° increments. Getting off the runway is tricky, I usually push the stick forward until the rear wheels leave the ground, then pull back hard.

Also, I'm having such a blast with fighter jets that I haven't even been to space in 0.15 yet. :D

Spoiler: My Mach 2 jet fighetr (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 18, 2012, 10:04:26 pm
Ah, I started getting spaceplanes off the ground. Things I didnt know: Wings alone dont generate enough lift, regardless if your going 200mps down the runway. You need frontal lift too; those little wing flaps work wonders if you put them on the front of the plane, usually around the command module.

Secondly, you need those control flaps. Yea, just rotate them on. But again, just having wings + control flaps usually wont do the trick. You need frontal lift! Once you have frontal lift... DANG. Pulling up will make your plane do a back flip over the runway. Be careful of that; ASAS will keep your movements gradual for takeoff.

Third... things get tough to control once the atmosphere gets thin. ASAS wont keep you flying straight forever.

Fourth, a single small fuel tank will keep a atmospheric engine running for ample time. Usually will last 2x the time you need to get out of the lower atmosphere.

My current basic plane, capable of minor high-atmosphere travel (but lasts a long time over land as a Jet)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2012, 10:38:57 pm
I was under the impression that spaceplanes were supposed to, you know, get into space. Why does it sound like these can't these go very high? :|
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 18, 2012, 11:13:05 pm
The problem is fuel. The only upper atmosphere engine uses up fuel like its nobody's business. A single engine burns through a Mk2 fuselage in about 20 seconds.

Im sure you can get into space, but you'd need a really efficient design. Or you can use rocket engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 18, 2012, 11:15:48 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 18, 2012, 10:38:57 pm
I was under the impression that spaceplanes were supposed to, you know, get into space. Why does it sound like these can't these go very high? :|
Spaceplanes are still airplanes, they fly using air-breathing engines. Air-breathers offer great fuel efficiency, but obviously need an atmosphere to function, so the practical ceiling for a spaceplane is around 20k meters. If you need to go beyond that, you need to either go very very fast to compress enough air, or use rocket thrusters and rocket fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 18, 2012, 11:21:54 pm
Driving a spaceplane after the fuel has ran out is neat. They can glide pretty well; well enough that the command module usually survives when it hits water. You can glide for a long, long time too.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 19, 2012, 12:24:21 am
Could you mount a rocket on top of a spaceplane, and use the plane to give the rocket a low-fuel-cost boost?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 01:53:35 am
yes but you rocket will be limited in using lateral simmetry

you can build it in the rocket hangar but will have to launch vertically
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 19, 2012, 01:58:37 am
Yay im buying the game either today or tomorrow.
They did a great job, i love playing the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 04:15:56 am
pretty fly
Spoiler: for a white guy (click to show/hide)

it has a bad tendency to tail striking... good luck with that if you hit, there is no scraping here, only burning death (it could fly even without the tail, but it has very little pitch control)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 05:09:59 am
this is so stupid that it drop like a rock as soon as you disable mech jeb

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

no, it didn't reach anywhere near orbit  :-[

(it's excceptionally good at gliding, however. I should try to attach some boosters)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 05:44:30 am
trim is very useful to prepare a craft for landing

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

this was landed with a +50% trim to pitch; very useful when you're joystickless
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SP2 on May 19, 2012, 06:55:58 am
Spoiler: This design worked well for me. (click to show/hide)

Although I've yet to test it in the upper atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 09:03:05 am
I do have the demo version and will be "donating" for the full game either today or tomorrow.
I do have a problem though, I can never seem to get more than a couple of tanks worth of fuel into orbit, no matter how many stages I put on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 19, 2012, 10:57:13 am
Damn, these things look awesome!
I guess i'll have to buy the game after all...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 19, 2012, 11:23:50 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Presenting a working1 crew-operated short-range MIRV ballistic missile. Capable of unleasing indiscriminate2 destruction on an enemy city with a relatively infinite3 chance of success. What's more, the missile can be quickly disassembled4 converted into a parachute drop pod to turn your crew of three battle-hardened5 Kerbals into an assault team to quickly conquer the bombed territory immediately after6 the warheads drop before the enemy can react, as well as unleash greater destruction on your enemies.

1. In that it actually works. Most of the time. Especially compared to previous attempts.
2. Well, you can't do much if a missile collides with the launching rocket.
3. Relative to 0% of success when not doing it. Dividing by 0 and all that.
4. Disassembly is occasionally involuntary.
5. Jeb, Bob, and Bill tend to have slap-fights in the cockpit.
6. Usually. Sometimes before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 19, 2012, 11:37:29 am
Spoiler: Albatross Mk1 (click to show/hide)

I'm not impressed with its flight stability, but it did have a tail when it left the hangar.  The wings actually flap when it changes pitch, I might need to do something about that.  I am strongly considering mounting it on a rocket sled for takeoff, I just wanted to test it's airworthiness (i.e. make sure no pieces fall off when it's wheeled to the runway).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 19, 2012, 11:38:34 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 19, 2012, 11:37:29 am
Spoiler: Albatross Mk1 (click to show/hide)

I'm not impressed with its flight stability, but it did have a tail when it left the hangar.  The wings actually flap when it changes pitch, I might need to do something about that.  I am strongly considering mounting it on a rocket sled for takeoff, I just wanted to test it's airworthiness (i.e. make sure no pieces fall off when it's wheeled to the runway).
Where is Jebidiah?
Development of this game didn't stop when I didn't play this game anymore or did it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 19, 2012, 11:41:42 am
Yeah, your Kerbonauts have randomized names now.  Jebidiah has retired to mission control, and now you've got a whole crop of faceless astronauts with incredibly hillbilly names to throw skyward.

They still basically react like Bill, Jeb, and Bob did.  The personalities are tied to the portrait slot.  I'm sure that's going to change.  But I know Jebidiah will always loom large in KSP's legend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 11:45:16 am
Spoiler: the swan (the ugly one) (click to show/hide)

it has lot of fuel, but because of bad assembly, it get some right yawing attitude
(and whatever james say, it landed safely)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 11:55:30 am
Now, who'll be the first one to land on the moon and come back with a plane? I'd suggest using a massive plane, carrying a rocket (for interplanetary stuff), itself carryin a smaller plane/glider (for landing).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 19, 2012, 12:01:06 pm
you should better define plane, because I see at least a dozen way to cheat at this  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 12:40:39 pm
Well, it should use athmospheric engines while in the athmospher, look like a plane and take off and land from the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 19, 2012, 12:54:47 pm
Huh. Either real-world physics confuse me, or KSP doesnt model some things right. I run out of fuel at 900m and slow down to ~30m/s. About a half hour later I'm gliding at 1200m up and 35m/s. How is that possible? I can glide indefinitely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 12:59:04 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on May 19, 2012, 12:54:47 pm
Huh. Either real-world physics confuse me, or KSP doesnt model some things right. I run out of fuel at 900m and slow down to ~30m/s. About a half hour later I'm gliding at 1200m up and 35m/s. How is that possible? I can glide indefinitely.
Sorcery.
Also what kind of vessel is this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 19, 2012, 01:15:39 pm
This one:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Without the boosters on the wings, since they come off when they run out of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 19, 2012, 01:34:36 pm
I wont buy this game if i cant have the good ol' Jeb D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on May 19, 2012, 01:36:59 pm
You can, he's just not there all the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 01:38:30 pm
Not entirely sure, but if it's altitude above the ground, maybe you were 900 m over a 600 m hill, and now you're 1200 m over the ocean. That, or it's the wing flapping and powering you for free.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 19, 2012, 01:41:22 pm
If I'm not mistaken, altitude is actually measured from ocean-top level.  I know I crashed into the ground at an "altitude" of 64m, but that might just be meter ignoring the Space Center object.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on May 19, 2012, 01:44:01 pm
Yea, altitude is from sea level, not the current land elevation.

It could be flapping the wings. I wasnt there actively trying to flap them a ton, but I had to be constantly adjusting my plane to stay straight. That mighta done it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 01:50:34 pm
There was that bug where winglets used by a SAS would propel the craft, because the SAS would continuously flap them to direct the craft. And since the SAS don't use power, you get free propulsion. Try to see how high you can climb in this fashion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 01:53:06 pm
I think it has been decided that cones or spheres are better than winged objects for space craft. or so NASA thinks. i think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 19, 2012, 02:27:15 pm
Here's my latest invention. Supersonic intercontinental heavy-ass jet.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When I say "heavy-ass", I mean it makes three pairs of landing gears in the back sink into the tarmac. For some reason. It also handles like a dream, the kind of dream you can have after a pint of Red Bull laced with LSD. You should see it wiggle when ASAS tries to keep it steady. But at least it flies fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 02:36:56 pm
i want this game now and i dont even know WTFH is going on in HSBAFTDAGATSMAJ.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 03:22:54 pm
So, does anyone have any help on how to get a useful amount of fuel into orbit?
I want to do it with a standard upwards pointing tube rocket. I always have less that a tank of fuel left for orbital maneuvers, because the added weight makes the extra engine rather useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 03:24:36 pm
ice balls vaporized by laser= propulsion. as for maneuvering, what maneuvering?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 03:27:03 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 03:24:36 pm
ice balls vaporized by laser= propulsion. as for maneuvering, what maneuvering?
Y'know, moving into and manipulating an orbit so you don't just go up an obscene distance then crash back down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 03:28:49 pm
i know. you orbit and are affected by gravity. but that IS the plan for justabout everything we do there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 19, 2012, 03:29:31 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 03:22:54 pm
So, does anyone have any help on how to get a useful amount of fuel into orbit?
I want to do it with a standard upwards pointing tube rocket. I always have less that a tank of fuel left for orbital maneuvers, because the added weight makes the extra engine rather useless.
Post a picture of your design, I'll tell you how to improve it.

Also, improved that heavy-ass jet:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still can't land it though. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2012, 03:34:29 pm
look at NASA. they designed it, not me.


PLAN!
{}=ice[huge]
<=lazer
>=ports for vapor


{}<<{}
{}<<{}
 >>>>

see?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 19, 2012, 03:50:15 pm
...All my planes usually commence frantic breakdancing the moment I turn the ASAS off.

On the other hand, I have discovered that it can be remarkably easy to glide a large plane with quite a few support struts and four engines without any fuel left. My last plane did that for at least 22 minutes.

And yes, the plane cockpits ARE absurdly strong, compared to the normal command module. But then, the normal command module feels rather flimsy to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2012, 05:51:58 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 19, 2012, 03:50:15 pm
And yes, the plane cockpits ARE absurdly strong, compared to the normal command module. But then, the normal command module feels rather flimsy to me.
I believe they were made by a paper modelling company and were designed as a display for models.
So yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 20, 2012, 12:27:32 am
keep in mind your kerbanoughts only weigh something like a quarter pound each...
Anyway, to the guy who's having trouble getting fuel into orbit, try thinking smaller, Make your top stage nothing but Parachute, command pod, ASAS, one tank and a rocket, then make the smallest rocket you can that barely manages to get into orbit with your top stage, put your RCS fuel and thrusters on this stage , then add a third stage capabable of getting everything up. If you're still having trouble try adding boosters, i like using 3 symmetrical stacks of fuel tanks with a rocket underneath. If you're having trouble lining very large/complex rockets up you should try making a single stack of fuel tanks then using the symmetry tool to clone/join them together.
I always had problems when i use either too many or not enough stages, i'm currently trying for a 5 stage rocket with 30 standard liquid rockets on the bottom.
It's damn hard to get them lined up right :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 20, 2012, 01:06:24 am
Here's a picture of my Mun rocket, for reference on efficient lifter design:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The outer ring is all detachable liquid fuel boosters, all engines in the boosters are gimballing, engines in the bottom stage are six straight burners and one gimballing in the center. Everything from the main stage up is what lands on the mun (though mostly depleted). The section on top is the return craft.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 20, 2012, 02:19:04 am
my minmus design

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

carries a fair bit of fuel  :P

(the lander is larger because of the additional fuel needed to get back from minmus)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 20, 2012, 02:27:21 am
yesterday I bought the game, and experimented with planes. sadly,  I still haven't managed to make a good plane however.

But with rockets, I managed to land on the mun! sadly, the landing broke the engine, so the crew is stranded... but they died for kerbal!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 20, 2012, 02:31:53 am
Nevermind what I said before about not being able to get enough fuel, turns out I was just using too much fuel to get altitude instead of putting myself in an orbit. I tried just having a 100,000m orbit instead and found I had enough fuel to adjust the orbit to 500,000, fly to the Mun, orbit around it and then come back.

So yay, I fixed my non-problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 20, 2012, 02:35:58 am
Here's my Munar rocket, goes to Minmus too -- although I feel Minmus probably requires less fuel than the Mun, the lower gravity makes the return trip easier.

Spoiler: rocket! (click to show/hide)
It's very boring, but it gets the job done. Landing pod is a little fuel tank and little engine. Sits ontop of one of those new pointy engines and two fuel tanks. Four regular engines with two fuel tanks attach to the central section, and the whole thing is thrust off the launchpad with 12 SFBs. You can't see it, but fuel lines link the outer tanks to the central one, and all five engines fire at once.

Meanwhile in my spaceplane department, I've been struggling to reach the moon. It's hard once you get in the upper atmosphere to keep the craft balanced enough to fly straight. Sure looks cool, though.

Spoiler: large pics (click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 21, 2012, 12:56:51 am
Ahh, glorious soviet rocketry, why you fail me so badly, I swear i will crack this 30 engine unnessicarily large/heavy behemoth soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on May 21, 2012, 02:58:41 am
Mechjeb just updated, they "Fixed the Core coffee intake" (it shouldn't jitter as much when pointing the right way any more)

Any tips on making a stable jet? I'm trying to duct-tape a rocket to the top in an attempt to launch it into orbit after lifting it with the jet, but all my attempts so far end with the jet doing backflips 30m off the runway.

Scratch that, I moved the engines up with some pylons to move the center of thrust closer to center of mass, and now it only flips if I turn off mechjeb surface control... or set it to pitch up more than 20 degrees.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 21, 2012, 04:25:53 am
I was wondering: would it be possible to rig a craft so that it can turn off its plane engine once out of the athmospher and then turn on its rocket engine, go to the Mun or wherever, come back and turn its plane engine on again?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 21, 2012, 04:37:58 am
Some tips.

Remember that thrust add a momentum if off center; you can place engine under the cog to help pitchig; this has the problem that engine output isn't constant: with the high altitude engines this is more evident, with the craft changing attitude abruptly.

If you put your rear carriage too far back, the rear control surface will have a very hard time in raising the nose. Put the rear wherls near the cog and you will be abe to push up the nose muh more easily

If you put the wing ahead of the cog, those will generate an unstable configuration (the greater the aoa, the greater the diverging force). This is very effective for canard, but will casue endless attitude issues for fixed wings. If you put wings behind cog the will create a contrasibg force trying to realign and reduce the aoa. This may cause problem if you need lot of lift: angle your surfaces like flaps to help this
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2012, 05:23:42 am
Quote from: Sheb on May 21, 2012, 04:25:53 am
I was wondering: would it be possible to rig a craft so that it can turn off its plane engine once out of the athmospher and then turn on its rocket engine, go to the Mun or wherever, come back and turn its plane engine on again?
Yep, that's called a SSTO (Single Stage To Orbit) craft. It's a challenge to do so, because rocket fuel and rocket engines are pretty heavy, but it's definitely possible. You can't, however, turn rocket engines off, so if you have fuel left by the time you get back (and your rocket tanks aren't separate from air-breather fuel tanks), you're going to have to use the rocket engines for flying back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 21, 2012, 05:28:31 am
If you had separate fuel storage for the engines, you could presumably cut the fuel for the rocket engine and re-fire the jet engines. I'm currently struggling with various problems with my design, but I hope to eventually fly to the Mun and back...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2012, 06:17:40 am
I'm currently just struggling to build a flyable SSTO.

Or at least one that can take off reliably. This one ends up losing a wing 40% of the time.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though I admit, I am aiming for design more than function here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 21, 2012, 06:34:16 am
For a moment I tough the dark blue background was actually the night sky, and that your craft was so unstable as to be flying upside-down as soon as it took off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2012, 07:03:25 am
Quote from: Sheb on May 21, 2012, 06:34:16 am
For a moment I tough the dark blue background was actually the night sky, and that your craft was so unstable as to be flying upside-down as soon as it took off.
Heh, I get those often enough too. Many of the crafts I build are born rockets, and so meet their untimely demise through misguided attempts to fly them like planes.

Though most of the time, they're just victims of ridiculous design.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This one is notable for being able to reverse direction on the spot. It has enough thrust to literally go head-over-heels and start going in the opposite direction without losing more than 100 meters of altitude. It's also known for its ability to automatically do that whenever ASAS is turned off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 22, 2012, 12:37:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 22, 2012, 04:56:47 am
Do the wings do anything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 22, 2012, 05:11:22 am
Yes they have full control with flaps and the like just like an airplane wing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 22, 2012, 07:09:00 am
Yes. It glides in for a horizontal landing. Here's some pictures of the previous model.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 22, 2012, 07:48:00 am
Tsss. You didn't even land on the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2012, 09:51:20 am
Space planes are fun, although so far I have only been able to make rocket cars. They go fast but not very high. And they explode as soon as the runway ends.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on May 22, 2012, 11:14:16 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2012, 09:51:20 am
Space planes are fun, although so far I have only been able to make rocket cars. They go fast but not very high. And they explode as soon as the runway ends.

I have this same problem. I wish I would  have posted a screen shot...

Basically I have a plane that gets up to 130m/s on the runway. You have to keep ASAS on, hold down full "pitch up" and then toggle ASAS for about 0.8 of a second. Too much and the craft flips over backwards. Too little and you crash at the end of the runway.

Looking at other space plane designs, I think I need to add the rectangle wing sections to the plane instead of just the "delta wing" piece. Damn. Now I have to wait 8 hours to get home and try it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2012, 01:15:30 pm
Keep rear wheels not too much on the back so the craft will require left force to pitch up

If you have problem with the craft tumbling backward, it's because you either have too much lift surface in front of the center of gravity or you have the engines too much below the cog
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on May 22, 2012, 01:33:39 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2012, 01:15:30 pm
Keep rear wheels not too much on the back so the craft will require left force to pitch up

If you have problem with the craft tumbling backward, it's because you either have too much lift surface in front of the center of gravity or you have the engines too much below the cog

The problem with a natural pitch up (back lower than front) is that I always bang my engine on the runway. I haven't found a good way to increase the ground clearance of my craft.

How do you generally guess your COG? I guess it is probably best to look at mass values but does any one have a quick formula to help out?

Is it possible that I just don't have enough lift and instead of pushing my craft up the forces flip me?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 22, 2012, 02:05:53 pm
It would probably be best if you posted your .craft file. It's hard to diagnose what the problem is with only a vague description.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2012, 03:18:49 pm
usually cog is where fuel is.


here is a standardish craft, has all those suggestion in a nice package.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
basically, it flies itself. will takeoff safely without any input at the end of the runway, or you can use the new trim feature, give a +25% trim on the pitch and see it raising softly from the runway

even untrimmed, when it reach the right speed it will rebalance itsel, raising the front wheel and getting a neutral attitude, even if there is still not enough speed/lift for taking off. will run like that as long as you want, perfectly balanced.

I'll post the .craft if anyone knows a mediafire replacement that doesn't suck

Spoiler: the suuuk (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 22, 2012, 05:22:53 pm
Just an example of a space plane that can ALMOST get into orbit with careful piloting. I'm still working on balancing how much fuel I want to take.

Also a good example of how to extend ground clearance so you don't hit the tail when pitching. Not the prettiest, but not terrible and it works.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After losing the side liquid boosters, she'll glide at a nice 50 m/s. Slow enough for very easy landings and that's still speedy enough for it to get a nice flare at the end to slow it to about 35 m/s by the time it hits the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 23, 2012, 09:16:40 pm
I love it when a plan comes together!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: and landing!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 23, 2012, 09:24:24 pm
Any word on when they'll be adding more planets? I don't care about a second moon, I want to send probes to Kars.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 23, 2012, 09:58:12 pm
As neat as a second planet with an atmosphere would be, I really don't think there's much purpose of them adding any until docking is fully fleshed out and released. Otherwise it'd require you landing the entire rocket for the return trip in the atmosphere of another planet. Possible? maybe. Unrealistically crazy? yes.

There are no official plans on when another planet will be released, though there weren't any about this moon. Hopefully that means they might slip one into the docking update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 23, 2012, 11:49:06 pm
People have managed to Orbit, land, orbit and land again all in one go on the current planet. Throwing a bit of distance in there to travel really doesn't make it that much harder. I believe there is/was a challenge to go Kerbal-Mun-Kerbal-Mun-Kerbal, all in one mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 23, 2012, 11:59:41 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on May 23, 2012, 09:16:40 pm
I love it when a plan comes together!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: and landing!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Terrific! How did you plan that? Sheer luck? Is there something to help?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 24, 2012, 12:37:40 am
Partly sheer luck. First i went into my settings file and changed the CONIC_PATCH_LIMIT to 4 so i could see the patches ahead (5 would be better so i could have seen the path as it would have been if i had not burned to stay in the SOI of minimus)

I was just intending to show off using the mun for a gravitational slingshot out to the orbit distance of minimus, however as i slightly overshot with the throttle i noticed the solution seen here come up, so i quickly turned around and slowed down just a tad and there you go. I went a long it perfectly and deorbited at minimus. My experience doing this shows me that i'm going to need to create craft with more RCS fuel and thrusters in future, rocket engines, even the smallest, are way to powerful to arrange the exact profile you want for multi slingshot maneuvers etc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 24, 2012, 12:43:07 am
So how does Minimus look compared to Mun? Mostly the same? Different colors?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 12:57:31 am
Quite smoother, has a distinct asteroidish look.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 24, 2012, 01:14:30 am
Yeah, Minimus is really strikingly small when you're orbiting it. The thing I noticed the most though is that there doesn't seem to be much flat area outside of the big "sea" sections. Even the plateau looking areas have a bunch of slopes and ridges. I ended up with two failed landings there with a narrow craft before I decided to widen it up a bit and then I was able to get a decent landing on one of the shallower slopes. (This was my "rescue mission" to pick up the crews from the previous two capsules. They were fine, the rocket just kinda fell apart though when it toppled over.)

At the moment, I've just got a craft orbiting the mun, not designed for landing, just a decent amount of fuel to play around with orbits. I got to orbit with about 5 tanks of fuel left. To the mun with 3.5. I'll probably try playing around with another two or three slingshots of the mun and minimus before heading back. Basically wasting fuel so I can learn enough to potentially save fuel in the future.

Quote from: sneakey pete on May 24, 2012, 12:37:40 am
My experience doing this shows me that i'm going to need to create craft with more RCS fuel and thrusters in future, rocket engines, even the smallest, are way to powerful to arrange the exact profile you want for multi slingshot maneuvers etc

This, definitely. I know with orbiter and setting up slingshots with TransX, even a slight tap on the "fine" (I believe 5% of the full) rcs controls could be enough to completely throw off a complicated maneuver. There's not all that much distance to deal with here at the moment, but once we get some more planets to play with, more sensitive controls would really be nice.

Love that slingshot, by the way. The best I've managed so far is coming back from minimus, I caught the moon the right way and it slowed me down a good portion of the way to get me back to Kerbin. Saved me about 1/3 of the fuel I would have had to burn. Not that I didn't have plenty. Just fun to pull off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 01:21:00 am
Well of course is just for fun; at this point most of us should have crafts that could very well make a direct ascent path to minmus (and beyond, I was eager to get there and got myself into kerbol orbit)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 24, 2012, 02:42:53 am
It'll be for more than just fun once the financial side of the game comes in though
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 02:51:36 am
....and the part rebalance.

can you still reach escape velocity with a lfe and two fuel tanks?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 01:40:29 pm
Spoiler: on the way back (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 02:18:18 pm
hm. I have a crew from a successful minmus mission stranded in an elliptical orbit around kerbin. periapsis  is 95k, quite low, but apoapsis is 5M kilometers. I wonder if I can somehow rescue them.
how do I arrange such a thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 02:19:12 pm
another rocket, line up with the craft, nudge it *gently* toward surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 24, 2012, 02:28:12 pm
I remember someone on this thread making a tube out of winglets and using that to capture the capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 02:53:56 pm
yes, I get that I should line up with the craft and do something with it. the problem is how to get there. maybe I could try achieving a circular orbit at periapsis, and wait until orbits are synchronized... but it would take ages, due to lack of time compression.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:01:14 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 24, 2012, 02:53:56 pm
yes, I get that I should line up with the craft and do something with it. the problem is how to get there. maybe I could try achieving a circular orbit at periapsis, and wait until orbits are synchronized... but it would take ages, due to lack of time compression.
? isn't warp in the demo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on May 24, 2012, 03:03:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:01:14 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 24, 2012, 02:53:56 pm
yes, I get that I should line up with the craft and do something with it. the problem is how to get there. maybe I could try achieving a circular orbit at periapsis, and wait until orbits are synchronized... but it would take ages, due to lack of time compression.
? isn't warp in the demo?

95km is a slow warp speed.

Quote from: andrea on May 24, 2012, 02:53:56 pm
yes, I get that I should line up with the craft and do something with it. the problem is how to get there. maybe I could try achieving a circular orbit at periapsis, and wait until orbits are synchronized... but it would take ages, due to lack of time compression.

Get a craft at a circular 95km orbit.

Launch a different craft at like 500km. Compress time until the rescue craft and the return craft get close

Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2012, 03:18:49 pm
usually cog is where fuel is.


here is a standardish craft, has all those suggestion in a nice package.

-snip-
basically, it flies itself. will takeoff safely without any input at the end of the runway, or you can use the new trim feature, give a +25% trim on the pitch and see it raising softly from the runway

even untrimmed, when it reach the right speed it will rebalance itsel, raising the front wheel and getting a neutral attitude, even if there is still not enough speed/lift for taking off. will run like that as long as you want, perfectly balanced.

I'll post the .craft if anyone knows a mediafire replacement that doesn't suck

COG changes as the fuel tanks empty though right? I have to post my craft tonight....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:05:00 pm
yeah, that's why I've put the asas in front, it keep the nose down at landing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 03:05:49 pm
I have the full version, but at 90k KM, I am barely out of atmosphere. I think I can get 10x at most.
I would need to time it well, because if I miss and the capsule goes back on its merry elliptical orbit that takes it far away, I could be waiting for 15m.

of course I could try to match its elliptical orbit, but I am not quite sure of how I could chase it.

there is also the problem of the orbit having an odd angle, since it came from minmus.

I don't know much about orbit. all I can do is getting circular orbits, and extending such orbits ( or reducing, should I need to land)


edit:
Quote from: Fikes on May 24, 2012, 03:03:26 pm

Launch a different craft at like 500km. Compress time until the rescue craft and the return craft get close

Brilliant! thanks!.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:07:22 pm
mechjeb has a rendevouz helper mode, even if I never used it so I can't comment on that
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 03:08:49 pm
yes, but if that thing does all the hard work for me, all the potential for disaster and more stranded crews is lost.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:10:32 pm
then, you should get the time you reach a 95 circular orbit, the time that the other craft does another orbit, give a proportion and launch when ithe other craft is passing above you but at -x seconds (or something like that, dunno if anything I said makes sense without visualizing it in drawing - or equations)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:13:47 pm
another trick: just get in a coplanar orbit with the same periapsis and apoapsis; then you can get in phase by buring along on the normal going outward to your orbit; that shouldn't change ap or pe, but should move them around
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on May 24, 2012, 03:15:28 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:10:32 pm
then, you should get the time you reach a 95 circular orbit, the time that the other craft does another orbit, give a proportion and launch when ithe other craft is passing above you but at -x seconds (or something like that, dunno if anything I said makes sense without visualizing it in drawing - or equations)

Actually, if you look at the return craft it should tell you how long until it reaches periapsis. How long is a 95km circular orbit? Return craft time to periapsis  / orbit time at 95km should tell you when you need to be at that spot. Now we just need to figure out how long it takes you to put yourself into a 95km orbit...

Also you need to bring TONS of RCS.

Lets Apollo 13 this shit, LoSboccacc. Lets get those kerbals home!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:19:05 pm
hey, an idea: up the save, let us all try this challenge
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2012, 03:51:10 pm
I've tryed to sync up with a spent stage from another flight. manual controls are fine enough to rotate your apoapsis around without changing the orbit eccentricity too much, but they require a buttload of dV.

I don't know if it's better to do that at ap or pe, to save fuel, but I surely need to bring up waaaaay more than what I got. also, more engines, because I've to spent that dV without wating ages. to give a gut measurement, a 1/16 turn of pe/ap took a solid 5 minutes. (with the medium lfe)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 04:17:55 pm
I'll try uploading the save then. but first, I need to do a couple of things...

also, what do you suggest I use to upload files?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 24, 2012, 05:21:25 pm
Wouldn't a space plane work better to get the capsule back at such a low altitude?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 24, 2012, 05:32:11 pm
not really. docking with another spacecraft, without any actual docking equipment nor robotic arms, needs precision. spaceplanes aren't always easy to move, far too bulky and heavy. also, I don't think you can get the most popular pseudo docking systems on a plane.

but the plan still has benefits, if you can manage it. personally, I am having troubles with tiny atmospheric aircraft, spaceplanes are still a dream
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on May 24, 2012, 07:00:26 pm
Okay, here she is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I solved most of my issues, the main one being the craft flipping over with the mothership ran out of fuel. The front SASs helped with that, more because of weight than SAS control I THINK.

The way this ship works is you fire off the two lower SRBs, at 10m/s you fire of the wing SRBs. The lower SRBs should run out just after you leave the runway. Jettison them and immeditly fire the center SRB and 2 liquid engines. About 1 second later the wing SRBs will die so jettison those.

When the center SRB is dead jettison it and fire on the orbiter's liquid engine.

Right at the edge of the first atmosphere the mothership's fuel will run out. You have to pop the wing parachutes before you disconnect the orbiter or the mothership will crash into it (it still some times does).

I managed to crash into the moon with the orbiter.

Is there anyway to slow yourself down coming out of orbit other than reverse thrust? I might need to put RCS on the plane and fire it backwards to slow down and then up when landing.... hmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 25, 2012, 05:52:44 am
I managed to orbit the sun! Yay, I guess. It wasn't on purpose though so I guess it doesn't really count :P.

Also, is it just me or do wings make rockets tilt into random directions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2012, 05:53:48 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 25, 2012, 05:52:44 am
I managed to orbit the sun! Yay, I guess. It wasn't on purpose though so I guess it doesn't really count :P.

Also, is it just me or do wings make rockets tilt into random directions?
But you're orbiting the sun from the start!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 25, 2012, 06:01:29 am
I'm playing mind games with Kerbal. You wouldn't understand.

Anyway, are parachutes supposed to unattach (?) themselves from my rocket >.>? I was like: 'Yay, the parachutes have opened, the Kermits will be save'. I then noticed that they were no longer attached to my rocket. Boom, everybody dead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on May 25, 2012, 06:03:49 am
No, but they're really only strong enough to save the pod and MAYBE an ASAS. Also if you open it too late you'll be going too fast when the chute opens so it will rip off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 25, 2012, 06:12:07 am
What does an ASAS do anyway? As I haven't actually ever used them yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RulerOfNothing on May 25, 2012, 06:22:21 am
They use various parts of your craft to keep your craft at a certain heading, if my memory serves me correctly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on May 25, 2012, 06:27:17 am
It keeps your craft pointed in one direction, by semi-intelligently yanking the joystick around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on May 25, 2012, 06:30:31 am
Ok, I need to buy this now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trekkin on June 04, 2012, 02:36:09 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 25, 2012, 06:12:07 am
What does an ASAS do anyway? As I haven't actually ever used them yet.

ASAS takes every system on the craft that can change its attitude and engages them opposite the direction of any existing change in attitude. It basically keeps the craft going in a straight line as well as it can, although it cannot determine which straight line it ought to follow.

It will also empty your RCS tanks very quickly if left on, since it constantly compensates for whatever change in attitude it last made. This is why the fins wobble so much with it on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 04, 2012, 02:45:58 pm
note that it keep you pointed to an absolute direction, not a direction relative to, say, the planet.

as an example, if you point the nose at 0 degree north from the center, when you reach the pole you will be pointed upwards (warning: ideal though experiment)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 04, 2012, 09:07:27 pm
That said, it's very helpful for getting large rockets out of the atmosphere without tilting over. Once in orbit though, you'll need to make your own adjustments.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 04, 2012, 09:34:22 pm
It's helpful for medium-sized rockets. Very large rockets will begin oscillating when you turn the RCS on and eventually break.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 04, 2012, 10:01:04 pm
If you put more stuff at the bottom of a large rocket the drag will help keeping your nose pointed in the travel direction. Make sure you have enough control to change that direction, however.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 05, 2012, 02:12:50 am
By the way, is there a reason why my spaceplanes always veer off the runway, even when I place all of the parts using symmetry?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 05, 2012, 02:40:08 am
No. They just do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 05, 2012, 03:39:39 am
It's all phantom forces due to parts overlapping very slightly. It'll be fixed for 0.16, according to the devlog.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mongol13524 on June 05, 2012, 03:46:53 am
PTW
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on June 08, 2012, 10:02:13 pm
So, I was trying to reproduce some of the Planetside ships, and I accidentally managed to make a working VTOL Galaxy craft.

Behold!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Too bad images do not really do it justice. S.A.S. is needed for the initial lift off, then once the rear thruster in engaged SAS can be turned off and the craft piloted normally. It's surprisingly easy to steer, much much easier than a conventional Kerbal aircraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on June 08, 2012, 10:05:49 pm
That is really cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2012, 10:14:52 pm
Now we need pivoting engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 08, 2012, 10:19:47 pm
Quote from: Japa on June 08, 2012, 10:14:52 pm
Now we need pivoting engines.

-> http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=10662.30
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2012, 10:28:19 pm
Also, don't multiple ASASes conflict?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on June 08, 2012, 10:33:45 pm
It seem to work fine in this case. I think the main issue is if your SAS are placed in a non-center of gravity spot. In this setup they are pretty well centered.

Also, that look pretty wicked Sordid. I'm playing around with vanilla at the moment, but I might give that mod a try.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 09, 2012, 04:30:39 am
Is that old lego mod compatible with .15?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 09, 2012, 06:25:30 am
Quote from: Drakale on June 08, 2012, 10:33:45 pm
It seem to work fine in this case. I think the main issue is if your SAS are placed in a non-center of gravity spot. In this setup they are pretty well centered.

You're confusing SAS and ASAS. Not the same thing. SAS generates torque, ASAS actuates control surfaces and gimbals. Having more than one ASAS is superfluous, and it doesn't matter where you put it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on June 09, 2012, 10:34:52 am
Not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone noticed how the moderation team for their forums seems to be getting increasingly bad?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 09, 2012, 10:35:39 am
Quote from: Supercharazad on June 09, 2012, 10:34:52 am
Not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone noticed how the moderation team for their forums seems to be getting increasingly bad?
Example?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 09, 2012, 03:02:03 pm
Quote from: Supercharazad on June 09, 2012, 10:34:52 am
Not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone noticed how the moderation team for their forums seems to be getting increasingly bad?

I did.

getting mod from the fanboi crowd caused a very bad kind positive feedback on posts and topics, where any other dissenting opinion not inline with the forum wisdom is simply shut down. (and I'm not talking about flames and ot, just honest opinions)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on June 09, 2012, 03:20:01 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 09, 2012, 10:35:39 am
Quote from: Supercharazad on June 09, 2012, 10:34:52 am
Not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone noticed how the moderation team for their forums seems to be getting increasingly bad?
Example?

The fact that there's quite a bit of unnecessary hating on users, over strictness etc.
Also the fact that the mod team is heavily biased.
Their head of recruitment verbally assaulted another mod and got them banned, and got a talking to as punishment. If a normal user had done it, we'd get muted or at the very least an infraction.
That same person is the one that literally writes the rules.

You can't express any opinions that are contrary to the "accepted" line of thought, or your post is deleted. If you even so much as mention that you may have problems with anyone on the moderation team, you are punished for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 09, 2012, 03:53:03 pm
changing topic...

Spoiler: single stage to orbit plane (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: halfway in the plane to the moon and back challenge (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: staged configuration (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: separation confirmed (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: second time on minmus, this time engines didn't fell off on landing (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: got back, lining up with runway (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: nice landing, challenge completed! (click to show/hide)



Quote from: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 11:55:30 am
Now, who'll be the first one to land on the moon and come back with a plane? I'd suggest using a massive plane, carrying a rocket (for interplanetary stuff), itself carryin a smaller plane/glider (for landing).


It is done  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on June 12, 2012, 08:31:27 am
For the life of me I can't seem to get registered on forums...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on June 12, 2012, 09:09:10 am
not bad LoSbo. any space plane to the mun is impressive, but those engines are pretty widely considered to be imbalanced at the moment. Don't expect it to work the same way after it's updated. Of course, with the updates I'm reading about for next version, there's no guarantee anything will work the same. (Making everything bigger by 2.5x to be able to fix 1m kerbals in the capsule)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2012, 10:18:31 am
Considering that I got there with plenty fuel left and that half those wings are not producing lift because of bugs, I think that this design has quite some margin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 12, 2012, 11:53:56 am
It's pretty much just a rocket with wings though.

More complex designs are far less effective, but are more exciting to fly.
Like this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Barely makes it to a 200km orbit with a 4-ton fuel pod (it's a tanker for space stations), but very satisfying when it does so. Lags to high heaven though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 12, 2012, 12:39:55 pm
What in the name of all that is holy is that! :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2012, 12:46:27 pm
It looks like something designed in GalCiv2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 12, 2012, 01:45:21 pm
Did you disable cookies and/or referer info by any chance?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 12, 2012, 02:38:35 pm
Quote from: Sordid on June 12, 2012, 12:39:55 pm
What in the name of all that is holy is that! :o
My SSTO tanker, Albatruss II. Albatruss I is the non-cargocarrying, "sightseeing" version.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm now giving the design an overhaul, to reduce lag and give it a more conventional profile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on June 12, 2012, 02:42:02 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2012, 12:46:27 pm
It looks like something designed in GalCiv2
lol.
But it does, especially if I remember the shape of the wing 'jewelery' part right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on June 12, 2012, 02:46:20 pm
It's glorious...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 13, 2012, 05:15:07 pm
Not quite as impressing as the previous posts, but this is one damn large wingspan. I can hardly believe it flies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As you can probably see, I used a quite barbaric method of making the wings ;P

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on June 13, 2012, 06:10:01 pm
Did you lower the graphic settings? Makes the game much more playable on my laptop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 13, 2012, 07:12:42 pm
Oy! Why haven't I played this since V.13? D:

SPACEPLAENS! :D

*sees all the new parts* SQEEEEE

The Grasshopper Mk1:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though technically not a VTOL, as that implies it is able to land. Those legs snap if there's the tiniest of height difference on landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 14, 2012, 03:03:13 am
Quote from: alway on June 13, 2012, 07:12:42 pm
Oy! Why haven't I played this since V.13? D:

SPACEPLAENS! :D

*sees all the new parts* SQEEEEE

The Grasshopper Mk1:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though technically not a VTOL, as that implies it is able to land. Those legs snap if there's the tiniest of height difference on landing.
Struts. Lots and lots of struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 14, 2012, 10:24:54 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on June 13, 2012, 05:15:07 pm
Not quite as impressing as the previous posts, but this is one damn large wingspan. I can hardly believe it flies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As you can probably see, I used a quite barbaric method of making the wings ;P
I don't know what you mean, those wings are beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 14, 2012, 12:03:47 pm
How are you guys getting these to get off the runway?
Mine still keep veering off the runway and exploding if they have the power of more than one engine. On the other hand, if I can get them in the air, they fly just fine. Do you use a third party program or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 14, 2012, 12:40:59 pm
Veering off the runway is usually caused by overlapping parts, and in some cases by carelessly positioned landing gear. Make sure you turn the angle snap on if you're placing a single centered nose gear, and verify that aft gear are parallel and as perpendicular to the ground as possible.

Otherwise, veering off the runway is hardly a problem unless it persists continuously. For instance, my Albatruss II tanker actually has better chances of taking off safely if I carefully careen it onto the green, because there would be no sudden drop at the end which would break the whole thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 14, 2012, 01:12:12 pm
Thanks for the compliment on my patchwork wings :P

Actually, that giant-wingspan plane always veers off the runway; you can't control it at all until it takes off. It's too heavy to turn and doesn't have enough lift to take off. However, when it hits the beach, that dropoff before the water puts enough air under it to fly away.

I'm trying to actually get it controllable. Project Kaw 2 is a-go :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 14, 2012, 01:18:02 pm
.16 will fix phantom forces. T

To make it gain some angle at start more easily, try putting the rear wheels just a little behind the centre of gravity, so you need less force to rotate it along the rear wheels. It's trial and error on where to put wheels but it helps a lot: this way the rear weight behind the wheel helps rising the noise and putting air under the wings
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on June 14, 2012, 01:53:27 pm
The space plane I posted back a few can make it to the mun, but I can not figure out how to land safely from orbit. Are you using the Mech Jeb thing LoB?

How do you get your space plane going slow enough to touch down safely?

Also can anyone link (or make) a tutorial on how to change your orbits? I don't mean altitude, I have that under control, I mean angles and the like (inclination is it called?).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 14, 2012, 02:07:29 pm
I land arse first on legs and then pivot horizontally. You can actually see the legs on the rear of the plane in some shots

I've used mechjeb on the first launches because it's soo much convenient, but I land manually since .13

To change inclination: point your craft at the horizon, 90deg from the forward and backward vector and thrust

To change argument (rotate the orbit elongation) point the craft toward the other axis (this needs some images)

If you use mech jeb, try burning using the rot+ and norm+ smartass settings, you'll quickly understand..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 14, 2012, 02:16:01 pm
Alsoalso, how2control plane when you haven't any atmosphere to maneuver in? My plane just starts doing flips. Rocket engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 14, 2012, 02:28:05 pm
Quote from: Rex_Nex on June 14, 2012, 02:16:01 pm
Alsoalso, how2control plane when you haven't any atmosphere to maneuver in? My plane just starts doing flips. Rocket engines?
Rockets and RCS, yeah.

Also, I have a reasonable plane! Woot!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(In the second pic, fullscreen wasn't on, hence some of it being cut off.)

I named it Frigate Bird for whatever reason. It flies quite well and can actually take off without falling off the runway, unlike some of my stuff. It does have the problem that if you get up high enough for its engines to cut out it starts tumbling like crazy. D:

EDIT: See my epic journey across the sea with Milnand, Dilney, and Ronger Kerman! Sadly, I only decided to start taking pics when I was partway through the flight, so there are no shots of it taking off . A shame, too, because I had to get a little bit inventive to get this behemoth off the ground.
Spoiler: Behold,the creatively titled MegaWings! (click to show/hide)
K is the version: I've gone through a lot of iterations on this craft, largely in pursuit of air-launched cruise missiles. Sadly, that endeavor has been much less successful, but the plane itself works. Since it's so big, it uses four rocket boosters to help it take off. Admittedly, it can still get off without them, but it's fairly iffy, to say the least. And yes, those canards look like they were added on as an afterthought because they were. :P But look at it, it has a vertical canard :3
Spoiler: Just flying around, across the ocean. (click to show/hide)
Despite the altitude meter glitching out, this thing was pretty easy to fly. Most of my flight consisted of flying at a very slight upwards angle at 7,000-8,000 meters and making minor adjustments every so often.
Spoiler: Land ho! (click to show/hide)
Fourteen minutes later, we saw land!
Spoiler: Land ho, now closer! (click to show/hide)
Just a shot a little bit closer to the destination.
Spoiler: Making the approach run (click to show/hide)
Landing this was slow, but easy enough. I just dialed down the engines and nosed down enough to drop altitude at a reasonable speed.
Spoiler: Coming in for a landing! (click to show/hide)
Then I cut the engines and kept the nose up a bit so I didn't crash. Or at least, I tried to keep the nose up. I don't know if it actually helped that much.
Spoiler: A bit of Map View for reference. Should have zoomed out more, but eh. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Touchdown! (click to show/hide)
I finally landed!
Spoiler: ...And then slid. (click to show/hide)
Finally I got tired of sliding and ended the mission VICTORIOUS.
Spoiler: Pictured below: victory. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Additional victory! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: A map of how it worked out in the end. Why the plane isn't on there, I've no idea. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 14, 2012, 04:45:41 pm
To get a spaceplane off the runway:

Canards are your friends. Take a look at the Albatruss pictures I posted. Even with canards, the thing won't budge up until it's off the tarmac.
If your design is nose-heavy, steer it off the side of the runway and take off from the green. The drop at the end of the placeholder runway can kill a heavy craft.
Place rear landing gear in a smart manner. You want them as close to the center of mass as possible, and yet still allow enough clearance for any low-hanging engines or fuselage elements to stay off the ground when you pitch up for takeoff or landing. If you have engines all the way out at the back of the craft, consider putting the landing gear on something long, propping the craft up so that you have more clearance and more leverage. It'll sit ass-upwards on the runway, but if the aft gear are near enough to the center of mass, the elevators and canards will pitch it up easily.
Place control and lift surfaces in a similarly smart manner. In the air, you want all the drag and lift focused at the back, where the weight is usually. Don't put fixed wings out front, anything they can do canards can do better. If you need extra steerage up or down, you can pre-rotate control surfaces and even fixed wings to properly balance the lift force.

To get the plane to land: First and foremost, you will usually need to turn off any engines you have running and land in a glide. Unless you're landing right after you took off, your plane will be much lighter and will likely keep flying well at speeds far slower than what you needed to take off. For my flying brick designs, I usually turn the engine power way down (to barely-working threshold for the turbojets) and fly down to about a 1000m altitude, and then level out and gently glide until I see a good spot to land. Just glide, watch your speed and descent rate, don't be afraid to pitch up - if your plane is built right, the landing gear will hit the ground first anyway. My spaceplanes come in for landing at roughly 80m/s, with 2 m/s descent rate. Just don't hit the brakes as soon as the rear wheels connect, you can drop the nose hard and break up. Try to gently lower the nose down, then start braking. That's what I do in my landings. Well, those that don't end in a fireball, at least. :P

To control the plane in space: Use thrust-vectoring engines, (at least one or two, even if you use aerospikes as primary thrust providers) and do your best to align all engines with the center of mass. You won't have nearly the same amount of steerage in space, so you have to make sure you have as little imbalance as possible to begin with. RCS I consider a "backup" measure, mostly for efficient maneuvering and course corrections between burns, but not as a main means of keeping course. On a ship of any considerable size, you'll need to have far more RCS tanks than you can afford to have, if you plan on using RCS throughout the flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 14, 2012, 09:04:43 pm
It seems it's still possible to create perpetual-motion planes/ornithopters. Pretty damn good ones, too!
Spoiler: The Albatross Mk1 (click to show/hide)
The albatross line were specifically created as experiments in version .15 ornithopters; craft using the jiggling of components by the ASAS in low-altitudes to get free energy. They have massive wingspans, built with very low mass; consisting primarily of the swept-wing. They turn out to be very easy to launch; the mk1 takes off at 20 m/s, the mk2(not shown) at 15, and the mk3 at around 30. The mk1 was the initial craft; designed to test low-altitude, low-speed conditions to determine the viability of perpetual fliers, and nearly hovers at around 13m/s, losing very little velocity, and actually gaining a little altitude. The mk2 was part way between the mk1 and the final mk3 design, with 2 main wings and many more small ones; it could reach speeds, entirely unpowered, of 200 m/s at an altitude of 500 meters.

Spoiler: The Albatross Mk3 (click to show/hide)
The final Mk3 design adds even more wings, and removes the permanent engine; who needs engines anyway? The takeoff mechanism is a single solid thrust, jetisonned immediately after takeoff at about 50 m/s, as the rapid acceleration shakes the vehicle too much, and would otherwise self-destruct (as a side note, the design of the takeoff needs to be reworked; the solid often hits wings and knocks them off on jetison). At this point, the vehicle's ASAS responding to movement of the wings is capable of generating enough thrust to reach maximum speeds nearing 300 m/s, and as pictured, a maximum height of about 10 km, at which point the air is too thin for adequate lift to be generated. Not bad for an unpowered craft using vanilla!

They're actually pretty impressive to watch fly; the delay on the ASAS responses means those wings actually do flap a little.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on June 14, 2012, 09:34:03 pm
That is really cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 14, 2012, 09:51:52 pm
My plane got to minmus without thrust vectoring and without rcs...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on June 15, 2012, 02:30:44 am
Ever since 0.15 came out i've been building long distance high altitude aircraft. Most of the flights take place at a cruise of 13000-15000m.

After a few designs I got something that could make it across the sea by the launch pad, it could fly about 800km, and had good handling characteristics so it could land properly.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Naturally once i had that good design i enlarged it. That was enough to get 1400km! However, there were issues with fuel flow causing engines to stall out to early, which the fuel lines did not remedy. In hindsight, I now realise that the wing area is also grossly inadequate for the short take of that the KSC runway presents, hence the rocket booster.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Due to the general floppyness of that design, i decided to go even bigger (of course), but with a slightly different method. This one could do 1600km! It also flew much nicer than the old one, and had no fuel flow issues. Was still fun to get off the ground. Boosters ran out just after liftoff, but then had to get some altitude, kill the engines, wait for them to spool down, before i could safely jettison the boosters, otherwise they'd explode as soon as they entered the flow stream.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After realizing that the other fuel tanks had less weight for the same fuel amount, i did a redesign of my design again, giving this. Much easier to take off and fly than the previous two designs. It did 1380km on the first iteration. next i'll enlarge it and try to add drop tanks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on June 15, 2012, 02:37:17 am
I love how no one makes rockets anymore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on June 15, 2012, 02:40:02 am
Quote from: jaxy15 on June 15, 2012, 02:37:17 am
I love how no one makes rockets anymore.
I do!

*Is still playing .14*
*Is currently afflicted with "Canhaznomoneyz" disease*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 15, 2012, 03:02:06 am
Nice. Here's my monstrosity designed alongside the same design principles:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And yes, it lands. If you're very very very careful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on June 15, 2012, 03:07:51 am
I bet Floppy wings othat design
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 03:21:37 am
Now that I reached mun, my next challenge will ve to fly all over the world using only atmospheric engine and boosters. (And mechjeb because I'm lazy)


Also: note that while they weight lot less, aerial fuel has an extremely bad density compared to rocket fuel so it currently is a better choice to use rocket fuel on larger designs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 03:30:21 am
Re-donwloaded it, and in only 3 tries I managed to go to the moon, orbit it and come back (well, almost, I'm stuck in orbit with no fuel, right above the athmosphere).

Now, a couple modifications and I should be able to land on the moon. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on June 15, 2012, 03:32:23 am
How far could you fly with that, sordid?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 15, 2012, 03:33:50 am
I still have not landed on the Mun successfully :(

Get there? No problem! I just always crash and burn on the surface, or best-case scenario knock off the engines I was planning to use to escape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 03:50:09 am
If you go with manual landing, bring asas, rcs and follow a descent path profile to avoid over speeding.

Here is mine:
100000mt burn to zero your lateral speed, vertical speed <800. Height <50000 keep speed below <500.
20000v< 300.
 10000v<150
5000<100.
1000< 50.
 500<10.

Then watch your shadow!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 15, 2012, 05:41:19 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on June 15, 2012, 03:32:23 am
How far could you fly with that, sordid?

I haven't tested it fully yet. The previous design (http://i.imgur.com/I0E8G.jpg) on which it's based could comfortably make it to the second space center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 07:04:42 am
What, there are two space centers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2012, 07:09:48 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 07:04:42 am
What, there are two space centers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on June 15, 2012, 07:10:09 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2012, 07:09:48 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 07:04:42 am
What, there are two space centers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on June 15, 2012, 07:34:04 am
it's the URSS one on the other side of the planet
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2012, 07:38:36 am
50 space bucks to the first person who records a video of a spaceplane taking off from the starting space center, circling the world, bombing the URSS space center, and then returning to land safely all set to 'Ride of the Valkyries' and uploaded to Youtube.

Bonus points if it looks like an actual bomber.

Mods allowed so long as they're not outright cheats
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 15, 2012, 07:53:35 am
Quote from: Dutchling on June 15, 2012, 07:10:09 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2012, 07:09:48 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 07:04:42 am
What, there are two space centers?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 08:04:36 am
Where is it on the world map?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jaxy15 on June 15, 2012, 08:05:11 am
Honestly, this game should be renamed "Flight Simulator Space". Everyone makes planes now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 15, 2012, 09:43:50 am
Quote from: jaxy15 on June 15, 2012, 08:05:11 am
Honestly, this game should be renamed "Flight Simulator Space". Everyone makes planes now.
Planes  give you faster gratification, I guess? You don't have to coast through space for minutes when you're flying through the atmosphere.
Also, planes are more familiar to people (than rockets).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2012, 10:42:52 am
And they're new.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on June 15, 2012, 01:41:23 pm
So... I fired up the rockets on my latest space plane... and it immediately started going backwards, and ended up accelerating to 50m/s in reverse.

I have no idea why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 15, 2012, 07:07:15 pm
Struts: The new ducktape.

(http://i.imgur.com/o3o8G.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 07:27:08 pm
planes and flying tutorials. cover the basic and taking off, both for canard based and elevator based planes:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13TwLREJBuJaqnYhNsqt_tT-SPuhxE1WAu-jQpvXl0Xg/edit

images included!
Spoiler: treat (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 07:28:16 pm
Quote from: greatorder on June 15, 2012, 06:09:51 pm

EDIT: on spaceplanes, how do you get engines to face downwards? I want a vertical liftoff/touchdown vehicle!


qweasd; shift for finer rotation (requires 0.15+)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 15, 2012, 08:02:07 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 07:28:16 pm
Quote from: greatorder on June 15, 2012, 06:09:51 pm

EDIT: on spaceplanes, how do you get engines to face downwards? I want a vertical liftoff/touchdown vehicle!


qweasd; shift for finer rotation (requires 0.15+)
Doh. And all this time I've been using the sides of down-facing parts, lol.

Oh, and thanks for that guide; it's actually useful! A rare trait among internet guides indeed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 04:01:14 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 07:27:08 pm
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13TwLREJBuJaqnYhNsqt_tT-SPuhxE1WAu-jQpvXl0Xg/edit

the static part is now completed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 16, 2012, 04:05:51 am
Those struts aren't perfectly aligned, my mammoth rockets always have trouble not shaking themself to bits if i don't have my struts perfect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on June 16, 2012, 04:07:27 am
I find tail heavy( not too heavy) easyer to takeoff and i usually adjust them with the tuning function once in air... (evrythingyou do while pressing control will stay registered and so you can zero your plane)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 06:10:05 am
Spoiler: comparison (click to show/hide)


game crashy nature is making difficult to fly around kearth   :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on June 16, 2012, 09:16:09 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 06:10:05 am
Spoiler: comparison (click to show/hide)


game crashy nature is making difficult to fly around kearth   :(

One is intended to be rocket fuel, the other jet fuel. At some point they're going to limit the type of engines to the type of fuel attached to them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 09:24:20 am
Still legit  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 12:05:21 pm
one quarter around the world, I detached the first fuel tanks stage.

I had to drop a little from the cruise altitude, from 13000 to 10000mt to match the vector speed and detach them safely.

cruising in atmosphere with asas only is messy  :-\
it really need a vanilla attitude hold autopilot
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 03:15:31 pm
crashed again halfway trough the world trp  >:(

abandoning challenge  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on June 16, 2012, 04:12:36 pm
Using Mech Jeb was a really good learning experience. It also showed how inefficiently i get my crafts into orbit.

I have switched to flying mostly space planes because rockets are pretty easy to build. I slapped together a real simple one and made it to orbit on my first try (no mech Jeb). Once in orbit I shot for the moon and made it there too. I had enough fuel left over I had to abandon my main engine stage. I could have put it into Munar orbit but because it was my first try with this craft I would have had "unnamed craft" debris orbiting the moon. Instead I crashed it into the surface.

Then I landed on the Mun but managed to break off a landing leg. The lander portion started to tip so I went full throttle and got back into Munar orbit. Once in orbit I pointed myself at Kerbin. My plan was to do a powered landing on Kerbin also, with a parachute to slow me down (I didn't have a decouple to separate out just the pod). It worked okay. I ended up landing in a random area of Kerbin a little too hard and destroyed everything save the pod, parachute, and one leg.

All of this without SAS, ASAS, or RCS. Rockets don't pose that great of a challenge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 05:10:32 pm
Spoiler: the farthest I went (click to show/hide)

using a plane with only atm engines. it's about halfway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 16, 2012, 08:39:57 pm
Quote from: greatorder on June 16, 2012, 07:33:33 pm
link to mechjeb please?

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=14066.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on June 17, 2012, 12:08:40 am
Quote from: greatorder on June 16, 2012, 07:33:33 pm
link to mechjeb please?

No one ever says it anywhere, but how you install plug ins ( at least mech jeb) is as follows.

Extract the file.

The .dll goes into the "plug in" folder.

The parts go into the parts folder.

Mech Jeb is really impressive because you can watch how a "master" does the tasks you fail at.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2012, 01:17:31 am
Quote from: Fikes on June 17, 2012, 12:08:40 am
Mech Jeb is really impressive because you can watch how a "master" does the tasks you fail at.
Which is exactly why I never use it. It takes all the fun of failing out of rocket science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 17, 2012, 01:21:50 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2012, 01:17:31 am
Quote from: Fikes on June 17, 2012, 12:08:40 am
Mech Jeb is really impressive because you can watch how a "master" does the tasks you fail at.
Which is exactly why I never use it. It takes all the fun of failing out of rocket science.
+1

It'd be like some sort of auto-dig mod that will designate an optimum fort design for you. What's the fun in that?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 17, 2012, 01:37:53 am
well, I DO like the auto-dig mod that just designates all of one stone type for digging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on June 17, 2012, 03:46:37 am
You know I was talking about how the moderation has gotten worse?


I reported a post that was ovbviously insulting another user. I get an infraction because the insulter was a moderator.
You cannot do anything whatsoever to "undermine" them, including reporting their posts that break the rules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on June 17, 2012, 03:56:21 am
At least you could get registered, i can't even be approved for registration...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 17, 2012, 04:08:49 am
There are two level to mechjeb features: smartass help you greaty to learn orbital mechanich, giving you set points to perform maneuvers.

The automatic moon descent, not so helpful in learning.

I'm divided about the ascent autopilot: it makes it too easy, but I did so many launchings that it's super boring
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GobbieMarauder on June 17, 2012, 08:11:40 am
Spoiler: Whoops. (click to show/hide)

As an aside, a Kerbinese year is roughly 110 Kerbinese days.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 17, 2012, 10:41:32 am
Whenever i do that I'm disappointed that my orbit never changes whenever i come close to Kerbin/the mun.
I guess my assumption of close is pretty far from reality.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 11:30:39 am
Aw... It seems you can collide with the sun now. No more inter-stellar travel via rocketing through the sun's core... :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2012, 12:12:06 pm
I've got a great Albatruss SSTO tanker design made!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, it suffers from a bit of a problem...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 17, 2012, 12:39:18 pm
Quote from: alway on June 17, 2012, 11:30:39 am
Aw... It seems you can collide with the sun now. No more inter-stellar travel via rocketing through the sun's core... :(
Well, you could still orbit the sun until you have enough velocity to rocket away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2012, 12:56:14 pm
Or more accurately, do a really close slingshotting around it. I don't think the sun can burn you already.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on June 17, 2012, 02:58:30 pm
Ugly as sin, but this is my first orbit-capable plane. Kaw 2.. pay no attention to me using fuel tanks to get ground clearance.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a (much) cleaner version, but it isn't capable of orbit. I need a di-coupler part that is capable of taking advantage of symmetry; the one I have right now requires me to build both halves of the plane completely separate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 03:38:25 pm
Heh, found something fun to do now that we have permanent space ships and debris in orbit... Build a debris-ship! :D

My 'Nefarious' class ships are capable of getting to orbit with several tanks left for maneuvering with approximately 80 free radial decouplers. Get into a stable orbit, fire one bunch (consisting of 6 or 8 positioned around the vehicle), maneuver into a slightly different orbital trajectory, repeat. Due to the slightly different velocities, you soon have a ring of 'Nefarious Debris' surrounding your planet; fly in that orbital area at your own risk. I imagine radial decouplers hitting at 2000 m/s does slightly more than tickle. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 17, 2012, 03:58:19 pm
Woah. How big did you even make that? Getting fuel into orbit is the one thing I just cannot do. Like, enough for Mun orbit and back and that's about it. Are you building mountains of engines or something?

FAKEDIT: Unless you just meant 80 decouplers ready to be decoupled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 04:10:58 pm
Yeah, 80 decouplers; screenshot of orbit after 3 nefarious Nefarious missions (though with a few SpaceMonkeys thrown in):
Spoiler: Nefarious Ring of Nefarious Debris (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 04:23:01 pm
It's great; now every time I launch I can see debris off in the distance, 20 or 30 km away, menacing as I go up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on June 17, 2012, 04:25:43 pm
have you managed to hit some of that debris? I want to know what happens!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Derekristow on June 17, 2012, 04:28:55 pm
Challenge: Cause a head-on collision, and record for science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 04:30:42 pm
Quote from: andrea on June 17, 2012, 04:25:43 pm
have you managed to hit some of that debris? I want to know what happens!
Easier said than done; it's like hitting a bullet with another bullet... Except bullets travel slower. But if I accumulate enough I figure I will eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on June 17, 2012, 05:48:56 pm
Quote from: alway on June 17, 2012, 04:30:42 pm
it's like hitting a bullet with another bullet...

...whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on June 17, 2012, 05:57:39 pm
Quote from: Sordid on June 17, 2012, 05:48:56 pm
Quote from: alway on June 17, 2012, 04:30:42 pm
it's like hitting a bullet with another bullet...

...whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse?

But in this case, quite literally, it is space that's moving, instead of the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on June 17, 2012, 07:11:17 pm
So, version 0.15 worked for me until I guess it was patched a week ago.  Now it has decided to one-up my rockets and crash on hitting the "Go To Launch" button.  As in, when I try to leave the designer and begin simulation.

Phooey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on June 17, 2012, 07:15:58 pm
Quote from: andrea on June 17, 2012, 04:25:43 pm
have you managed to hit some of that debris? I want to know what happens!

I landed a space plane just off the runway.

Then my next space plane when out of control and slammed into the old one. Lots of explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2012, 09:07:01 pm
Quote from: Fikes on June 17, 2012, 07:15:58 pm
Quote from: andrea on June 17, 2012, 04:25:43 pm
have you managed to hit some of that debris? I want to know what happens!

I landed a space plane just off the runway.

Then my next space plane when out of control and slammed into the old one. Lots of explosions.
Ya know, if it does that so consistently that it hits the previous ones, you may have a design issue there. :P

Oh, and here's a view from a craft in the same orbit as the debris field:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The grey diamonds are pieces of debris. :3

This is after 5 Nefarious Missions; though unfortunately, 1 of them had an orbit too low, and so most of its payload is in a quickly decaying orbit which now sweeps as low as 60 km above the surface.
I'm sort of getting a proper appreciation for all the times they talk about space-junk. Especially considering the Earth doesn't look so different:
Spoiler: earth's debris field (click to show/hide)
See, if they just put HUDs on the ISS views showing the location and movement of space debris, I think people would get a better idea of it. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 22, 2012, 12:18:05 pm
Try to use fallback part shaders, and perhaps force 2.0 shaders for terrain if you're having issues.
Also, some rocket designs just lag. Excessively complex ones with lots of struts especially. Has to do more with physics than graphics.

In other news, my SSTO spaceplane, Albatruss MkIV-KS, has managed to complete its first full mission, delivering a fuel pod to Kerbosynchronous orbit (or an approximation thereof), and actually returning in one piece afterward.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot137.jpg)
(pictured: Albatruss MkIV-X10, final prototype for Albatruss MkIV-KS. click to expand.)

Mission log follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next time I tried shooting for a Mun orbital delivery. It... didn't go so well.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/screenshot165.jpg)
(click to expand)
Even though I actually left the pod in Mun orbit, a fudged up return trajectory nearly left me hurtling out of Kerbin's SOI. I barely managed to make a burn for home. Landing is still pending on that mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2012, 12:19:52 pm
I finally scraped together $15! KSP, you WILL be mine :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 23, 2012, 02:58:21 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on June 22, 2012, 12:18:05 pm
Try to use fallback part shaders, and perhaps force 2.0 shaders for terrain if you're having issues.
Also, some rocket designs just lag. Excessively complex ones with lots of struts especially. Has to do more with physics than graphics.

... Thank you for pointing this out, i'll try to avoid putting 2,000 struts on all my rockets from now on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on June 28, 2012, 12:01:16 am
How do you get those trajectory maps? Is it only in the non-demo version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 28, 2012, 12:11:13 am
Indeed. those were added after the last free version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 28, 2012, 12:13:13 am
Am I the only one having some serious issues with staging in the newest version?

For example, I have a Munar lander (or at least, it's supposed to be one. Haven't gotten that far yet). It's a central, single-fuel-tank-rocket with 4 of the tiny LF engines arranged in a ring on decouplers. I usually stack this on top of my main orbital stages. Problem is, the game wants to put my primary engines and everything else in the same stage as the tiny LF engines, which older versions never seemed to do. Thus, when taking off all of my engines, aside from the one directly beneath the command pod, ignite at once and I lose a lot of fuel that I needed to save. To put it simply, what should be a seven-or-more stage rocket turns into a three-stage one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 28, 2012, 12:19:10 am
*SNOP*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 28, 2012, 12:21:51 am
Quote from: Japa on June 28, 2012, 12:19:10 am
This could work. (http://ynea.futureware.at/cgi-bin/index.pl)
While that looks like it could be helpful for Aurora, how does that fix KSP messing up my staging?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 28, 2012, 12:23:00 am
Sorry, mis-post. I meant to rely that to an entirely different thread where a guy was having trouble with DF being too small.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 28, 2012, 12:24:37 am
Oops :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on June 28, 2012, 03:55:13 am
Been a while since I played, but I vaguely remember you can drag modules around on the stage setup sidebar in the hangar.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 28, 2012, 04:00:46 am
Yeah, you can also add stage there. Just play with it and figure it out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 28, 2012, 04:36:05 am
I know you can rearrange stages and stuff. Problem is that no matter how many decouplers or whatever I add, pretty much every part after two or three stages gets added to the same stage. Basically, all the engines on the entire ship fire at once, and then everything decouples at the same time. When you've got around 15 engines that need to fire in exact sequence, hunting for those specific engines in a massive stack of icons is more annoying than fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 28, 2012, 06:07:42 am
Quote from: Sirus on June 28, 2012, 04:36:05 am
I know you can rearrange stages and stuff. Problem is that no matter how many decouplers or whatever I add, pretty much every part after two or three stages gets added to the same stage. Basically, all the engines on the entire ship fire at once, and then everything decouples at the same time. When you've got around 15 engines that need to fire in exact sequence, hunting for those specific engines in a massive stack of icons is more annoying than fun.
Add new stages and move those parts to the other stages so they fire in the correct order. It may be annoying but the game can't read your mind. I try to stage each engine as I add it to the rocket, rather than designing the entire thing then working out the stages after.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 28, 2012, 08:31:21 am
thats odd, ive had 6 stage rockets...
and launched a cap around the sun. it orbits every 30 odd days. and they were ALL happy.....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 30, 2012, 04:51:39 am
Spoiler: the slowcorde (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 01, 2012, 05:53:41 pm
Some of you may remember one of my experimental craft designs from previous versions; the ones which use huge numbers of wings around a very small body to drill their way through the atmosphere w/o engines.

Well, as it turns out, I realized the new canards and advanced canards had insanely better lift/drag and lift/mass ratios than the wings available at the time. I present to you XPREMENTAL:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It uses a single SRB to launch (as this design needs an engine to start out the flights), with that SRB being used as the craft's body. It has 104 advanced canards for thrust, with the old-style capsule (though I suspect I could improve it by switching to a new one). It has 8 struts reinforcing the capsule's connection, as the high torque can result in it falling off and killing the craft if they aren't there.

So now you must be wondering as to its performance. It is in fact insanely good compared to the old wing versions:
Max velocity: 1560 m/s in atmosphere, w/o engines
Max altitude: aprox. 170 km or so (whatever 1560 m/s gets you up to, really)
Optimal altitude: 4,000 - 10,000 meters
So yeah; near-orbital velocities at very low altitude, allowing for point-to-point travel in a timely manner. Can't really land it, and it does get a bit jiggly with all the wings, but overall a pretty interesting experimental craft. The main limitations are cpu speed and drag; cpu speed prevents it from scaling up much more, as even doubling the size and number of wings would probably bring it to a crawl; drag prevents it from getting too much faster (which may be helped a bit by changing cockpits). But that it can already make it to orbital distances makes it a potentially useful tool, or at least augmentation for another design.

Oh, and it can pull nearly 30 G's while accelerating. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Boksi on July 01, 2012, 06:28:11 pm
Quote from: alway on July 01, 2012, 05:53:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want to see this beast in action.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 01, 2012, 06:39:35 pm
Hmm, just found a new design using those principles which is less maneuverable, but which is less CPU intensive, simpler, and goes up to 1800 m/s. Edit: And is nearly unlaunchable due to being so hard to control... But I have another idea which new stuff makes possible.... Time to try it...
EDIT:
OH HELLS YEAH!!! BEST VTOL EVER!!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think helicopter, but if the helicopter itself spun with the blades.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 01, 2012, 07:24:44 pm
Quote from: alway on July 01, 2012, 06:39:35 pm
Hmm, just found a new design using those principles which is less maneuverable, but which is less CPU intensive, simpler, and goes up to 1800 m/s. Edit: And is nearly unlaunchable due to being so hard to control... But I have another idea which new stuff makes possible.... Time to try it...
EDIT:
OH HELLS YEAH!!! BEST VTOL EVER!!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think helicopter, but if the helicopter itself spun with the blades.

I used to do that to rockets in early versions when you could just get boosters a bit off vertical alignment. It's good for going up, but goes out of control if you mess with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 01, 2012, 07:42:23 pm
New design that makes use of flaps instead of canards; maximum velocity from a vertical launch(w/ a single SRB): 2121 m/s, putting me at 124 km altitude in 1 minutes, 11 seconds. :D
It needed more struts than flaps to keep the wings they were mounted on from being ripped off the craft by the massive torque, rotation, and lift.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on July 01, 2012, 07:58:02 pm
We need a video of that, alway. Or how to build such a ridicuolous thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 01, 2012, 08:08:12 pm
To build it, plop the cylindrical capsule on top of an SRB. Then add 8x symmetry structural wings. Then spam small flaps on the structural wings, rotating them such that they can cause a roll force on the craft (flaps point straight up or straight down in default positions). About 70 or so should at least give a considerable effect; I used 120 or so. After that, it's just testing.
If it explodes, you need more struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 01, 2012, 09:02:43 pm
The slowcorde isn't that slow.  The one I built is going to hit 300 m/s, which is only 40 fewer than the speed of sound on earth.  I did use a turbofan, and that might be the difference.  It'll be pretty hard to get legitimately slow aircraft if we can't get access to propellers and very light materials.

EDIT: Presumably the speed of sound on earth, at sea level.  Whatever google thinks the speed of sound is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 21, 2012, 07:22:45 am
Spoiler: its out (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: inteuniso on July 21, 2012, 09:50:48 am
YES.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 21, 2012, 09:52:52 am
I don't find it in the changelog, but did they enable the air intakes? seems not, but I'd like some confirmation.


beware, incompatible craft files, don't throw away the previous version

edit: wobble is present as ever, and gimballing engines still can't control roll
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2012, 02:13:58 pm
i really wish i had money to buy the full game.
in other news: i had a cap in orbit around the sun. orbit time: about 30 days.

small rocket to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on July 21, 2012, 02:53:44 pm
I can't get it to download correctly.  The patcher keeps saying it can't access the server, and the few times that it does and downloads everything, then the program loader or something says it's crashed and won't run.  I guess they're just overloaded, but it's ticking me off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 21, 2012, 03:43:50 pm
I'll wait a few days before downloading. Can't wait to take a giant leap for kerbalkind :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on July 21, 2012, 03:58:39 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on July 21, 2012, 02:53:44 pm
I can't get it to download correctly.  The patcher keeps saying it can't access the server, and the few times that it does and downloads everything, then the program loader or something says it's crashed and won't run.  I guess they're just overloaded, but it's ticking me off.

Keep trying. It took me about a dozen attempts before the damn thing worked. Work of the devil, I'm telling you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on July 21, 2012, 03:59:44 pm
My only accomplishment thus far has been having Jeb get stuck on top of a spaceplane and ride it down around 15,000 meters while it was doing loops.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 pm
How do you extend ladders?

I took Jeb out on an EVA, took a long time to get him back on the correct side of the command pod. After that it was on to the moon, but I didn't give myself enough time to slow down with a retro burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Derekristow on July 21, 2012, 05:31:14 pm
From KurtJMac's video, it looks like you have to click on the ladder itself and extend it, just like you would to manually turn off an engine.  The ladder's hitbox seems pretty finicky though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on July 21, 2012, 05:41:41 pm
Quote from: Fikes on July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 pm
How do you extend ladders?

Right click on the ladder and press the extend button.
You can also operate others parts in this way, e.g. selectively shut down a single engine, extend or retract a single landing gear leg, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 21, 2012, 08:14:49 pm
Actually, parts are based on how you group them. so if you place 3 landing legs using the tri symmetry option, deploying one will mean they'll all deploy.

My large diameter rockets keep jiggling to bits, unfortunately, and i've yet to get one to the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 22, 2012, 04:23:09 am
I've soem similar problem of stuff jiggling and breaking apart..

we're few and I se no !!raaaage!! on the forum so I'm starting to suspect it is a patcher issue...

I'll be downloading the full game, as soon as the server lets me
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on July 22, 2012, 10:15:07 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on July 21, 2012, 08:14:49 pm
Actually, parts are based on how you group them. so if you place 3 landing legs using the tri symmetry option, deploying one will mean they'll all deploy.

Huh. Was it that way in .15? Because I distinctly remember being able to shut down a single engine, even if it was placed with symmetry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2012, 11:11:34 am
Yeah, it was that way. You can only shut down a single engine if it wasn't placed with symmetry, or at least you should only be able to do it that way.

In other news, 0.16 giant fuel tanks are pretty neat.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPBugRep_220712/screenshot33.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on July 22, 2012, 11:16:40 am
Trying to imitate potentially non-existent kerbinsects is not the most aerodynamic of ways to do things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 22, 2012, 01:54:46 pm
i just built ANOTHER craft going around the sun.

with 5 rockets, 11 fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on July 22, 2012, 02:11:29 pm
I do love doing EVAs. The ability to waddle around as a kerbal makes the game infinitely better, even though you can't actually do anything with them yet.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZhNSn.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 22, 2012, 05:25:00 pm
It is good in a way. Before, there was a chicken egg thing: implement docking, its useless as there's no tools to get 2 craft's together. Implement the tools to bring crafts together, and there's no point. Except now that you can EVA kerbals between eachother, the is a use. My guess is we'd see the tools for orbital rendezvous in 0.17, and docking in 0.18.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on July 22, 2012, 06:12:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgKAgOv_LpA

Oh my gods that is amazing.  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Trorbes on July 22, 2012, 06:16:07 pm
Did they tweak the lift of the control surfaces or something?  As my rocket catastrophically failed on the platform, a few detached and started flying away.  Literally, bobbing up and down at about 5 m/s, some 50 meters or so above the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 22, 2012, 08:32:16 pm
Hey guys, remember those width-restrictions on rockets due to the annoying launch tower hitting things?
Well no longer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Height in the hangar determines the height of the launch clamps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 22, 2012, 08:46:27 pm
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SPACE ELEVATORS ARE A THING NOW. (sorta)
Will post images of my highest test; though tests show it to be an extremely dangerous launch method.

EDIT:
OH GODS YES YES YES YES THIS IS EVEN BETTER THAN I EVER COULD HAVE HOPED FOR.
Spoiler: I win at space (click to show/hide)
No engines used. Just 24 clamps. It turns out there is no height restriction on clamps. It also turns out that by grabbing the capsule, looking straight up, and moving it into an exactly 90 degree angle above your camera, it will cause the struts in the construction warehouse to disappear visually. Set down the capsule in such a state, and you have an infinitely tall tower, along which your capsule will fly at incredibly high speeds.

I am the best at space.

Edit 2:
Looking upwards, the top of the clamps always appear at 1.4KM away from the capsule, no matter how high I go. Capsule speed also does not change from the starting speed.

Edit 3:
Changing the time-dilation settings seems to make the clamps keep a constant height; though the craft continues on its trajectory. Note: in the below image, the 'debris' are the tops of the clamps. Yeah; I just built a space elevator farther than the orbit of Minmus. 8)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit 4:
My craft's speed is now properly affected by forces now that the clamps are stationary... But wait... what the hell are those things? O_O
More debris, moving at high velocity, have appeared out of nowhere behind the craft.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The craft is leaving the star system now; another 2 groups of debris appeared behind it; each slower than the last, though even the slowest will escape the star's gravity.

Further testing shows one set of test debris has massively negative altitudes (along with the NaN velocities). Methinks someone forgot to check their trig functions' inputs for validity. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on July 22, 2012, 09:24:50 pm
WONDERFUL.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: monk12 on July 22, 2012, 09:36:51 pm
Welp, looks like alway just won KSP. We can all go home now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: inteuniso on July 22, 2012, 10:42:39 pm
Thendash made a wonderful spacewalk video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SzSB2E_l-8&feature=plcp). To the Blue Danube Waltz. It is epic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 23, 2012, 05:46:41 am
That is awesome alway.

Now get back in my server and make a new power grid for the town.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kingfisher1112 on July 23, 2012, 05:51:20 am
I love this game, shame I can't buy the full version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 02:45:41 pm
dito
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on July 23, 2012, 02:57:46 pm
Can't as in too expensive, or store related?

If it's the store thing, it's kinda clunky but eventually it worked for me. I hope they go to steam in the near future.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on July 23, 2012, 03:44:42 pm
The store ain't as clunky as it started as. When KSP was $7 and you had to use the forum-based store, you had to use a box marked quantity (for who knows why, it only was for one copy) to enter how much you were donating for the pre-preorder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 03:46:00 pm
i can post some images of a rocket if you like. i had handling problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on July 23, 2012, 03:59:13 pm
hm. I tried EVA, thinking that they would move wherever the camera is facing.
insitead, it seems that every camera mode has its own plane in which kerbonauts can move, but no 3D.
which means, I couldn't move my kerbonaut back to spacecraft, and now he is happily orbiting.

edit: ah, nevermind. orbits took me close to the spacecraft agan, but a little bit too fast. good news is, the spacecraft is ok.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rift on July 23, 2012, 04:14:08 pm
Uh throttle up and down moves up and down, if thats what you needed... [also you have to toggle your jetpack if you hadn't]
It's a bit ackward but not that hard to move around via jetpack in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 23, 2012, 04:15:40 pm
Can the kerbalnauts die if they hit something (or the ground) too hard? Or are they invincible?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: guintiger on July 23, 2012, 04:17:36 pm
Reason to love this game?  It is SO in the spirit of Dwarf Fortress....I've found I actually have more fun when I LOSE!  The looks on those poor little volunteers faces...especially the one that is ALWAYS smiling even when his shipmates are screaming and vomiting.  I'm in love.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on July 23, 2012, 04:37:25 pm
Quote from: Rift on July 23, 2012, 04:14:08 pm
Uh throttle up and down moves up and down, if thats what you needed...

ah, those are the only 2 keys I hadn't tried :P
thank you.

And sirus, kerbalnauts can ( and will) die on EVA. I just smashed one into my own spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: head on July 23, 2012, 04:52:54 pm
Quote from: andrea on July 23, 2012, 04:37:25 pm
Quote from: Rift on July 23, 2012, 04:14:08 pm
Uh throttle up and down moves up and down, if thats what you needed...

ah, those are the only 2 keys I hadn't tried :P
thank you.

And sirus, kerbalnauts can ( and will) die on EVA. I just smashed one into my own spacecraft.

Really? on mine thrust up and down are ctrl and shift.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on July 23, 2012, 05:02:37 pm
I have been wanting to make a mun landing craft similar to apollo in the sense that the lander portion stays on the mun once you leave. The problem was the standard lander engine was too weak to boost me to munar intersection and the larger engine was too big for the legs (and I was too stupid to consider the side mounted engine).

I decided to use the larger one and just let it get destroyed when I landed, so off to the mun I went.

All was well and the desent was beautiful. I touched down at something like 3 m/s, so gentally that the engine didn't explode, it merely snapped off... and knocked my craft over. The rocket fell but I got the return vehical off just in time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 06:00:44 pm
wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 07:20:56 pm
Quote from: greatorder on July 23, 2012, 06:02:20 pm
I tried the space elvator...

it ain't working.
How so?

Edit: Hrm; testing with different models of capsule show inconsistent results; advising caution with testing in this direction, as one of the capsules appears to have entirely locked up my game's flow of time, requiring a deletion of the save folder.

But there is some good news. Recent technological advances have enabled us to freeze time! :D
But not unfreeze it. >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 07:58:52 pm
wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:00:43 pm
OH HELLS YEAH. You know how I though I won before? Well I won even harder! :D
I have now crossed over into what I shall call NULLSPACE (I discovered it, I put a craft here, and I put the first kerbin outside here, thus I get to name it :P). My speed? NaN. Yeah; I think it's safe to say I have now discovered interdimensional travel. I think it's also safe to say other dimensions are boring as hell.

Spoiler: Ship in NULLSPACE (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The first kerbin to walk in NULLSPACE (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 23, 2012, 08:04:48 pm
Well, crap. Alway Kerbin broke the universe. I hope you're happy :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:06:21 pm
Each test seems to have somewhat unique results; if one doesn't work, try a new one... just back up your spaceships first. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 08:08:26 pm
 :o.



 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:13:06 pm
Latest test flung a new craft into NULLSPACE at what appeared to be an even higher rate of speed. Then the client crashed. :D

I beat physics so hard they said GG and went home.

Edit: also of note: said crash-ship works repeatably; so again, I advise caution when experimenting with tan(pi/2).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on July 23, 2012, 08:13:46 pm
that's one small bug for the devs, one giant LOL for 12th bay!
Way to go man, keep breaking the game
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 08:22:32 pm
PLEASE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:33:03 pm
Quote from: greatorder on July 23, 2012, 08:20:57 pm
Quote from: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:00:43 pm
OH HELLS YEAH. You know how I though I won before? Well I won even harder! :D
I have now crossed over into what I shall call NULLSPACE (I discovered it, I put a craft here, and I put the first kerbin outside here, thus I get to name it :P). My speed? NaN. Yeah; I think it's safe to say I have now discovered interdimensional travel. I think it's also safe to say other dimensions are boring as hell.

Spoiler: Ship in NULLSPACE (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The first kerbin to walk in NULLSPACE (click to show/hide)
QUICK! report it so you are confirmed to be the first!

and tell them B12 sent you!
On my way. NULLSPACE shall be claimed for the glory of bay12.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2012, 08:36:30 pm
YAY!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 08:50:40 pm
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=16836.0
:)

Edit: Also, it seems it is possible to do it such that they are underground...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These launch clamps also make launch ultra-light perpetual-motion gliders much more simple. No need for engines, no need for wheels.

Another handy thing to note: you can rotate the capsule just like any other part; except it rotates the entire ship. Clamps allow you to now launch at a 45 degree angle if you so choose. :D
Or any other angle for that matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 23, 2012, 10:15:24 pm
Not to mention the crew transfer portion of "docking" provided you could get crew close enough together.

Presumably, if more than 3 crew is possible, you could have a large "space station" (or moonbase) part and rotate crew through them etc using only smaller landers, without having to launch/land the big thing again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2012, 11:17:39 pm
Pffft, you sillies, just use wing segments!

I was aiming for the Mun, but missed and so settled for Minmus. The Minmus Space Clubhouse has landed.
Spoiler: Final descent (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Open for business. (click to show/hide)
I may move it though; it's at a bit of a precarious angle.

Edit: and moved... though it's even more precarious, 2 engines fell off in the process due to terrible clubhouse piloting; welcome home sucker buddy!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm actually pretty damn surprised this even made it out of the atmosphere. It was a simple design; just 6 3-large-tank-large-rockets around a 2-large-tank-large-rocket, with some stabilizers, a stage separator, and this thing on top. Made maneuvering kinda hellish though, due to the uneven mass. struts kept it pretty stable in atmosphere; I suspect you could loft a small complex at once if you tried hard in your design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 24, 2012, 09:01:29 am
We really need well-designed cowling now so we can put useful things into space!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on July 24, 2012, 11:15:34 am
hover your mouse over the crew portraits, a little eva button should appear. click that. Once you're EVA'd WASD + left shift/control. Pop up keys should appear when you're near a hatch/ladder.

Press R to turn on/off your rocket pack.*

*Note: Rocket pack does not have enough thrust to help with anything on kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 24, 2012, 03:24:58 pm
so, to avoid the excessive pancaking, I'm making reverse rockets:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on July 24, 2012, 09:35:43 pm
About these space planes 8or whatever theyre called). How do I prevent it from tipping over at the runway?
It always manages to steer to the left and eventually crash in that direction before liftoff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on July 24, 2012, 10:14:47 pm
SAS or ASAS help. Keep them on at least until it's time to pitch your nose up.

Some people, however intentionally steer their plane off the runway at low speed and just use the grass to take off. That's always an option and you have a lot more room.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on July 24, 2012, 11:10:06 pm
Not to mention, the bumps help to kick the plane up a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on July 24, 2012, 11:26:42 pm
Spoiler: Things I'm learning. (click to show/hide)

Either Kerbonauts are a lot bigger than their peers milling about the VAB, or the launch tower is made of Legos.


I still haven't learned how to put down a lander without ridiculous amounts of lateral speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 25, 2012, 03:30:32 am
Re: lateral speed, I usually brake in orbit to such a degree that I basically fall straight down. After that, minor adjustments can be made with RCS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 25, 2012, 03:33:12 am
keep the nose pointed exactly toward the rear of the velocity vector, lateral speed will cancel out, eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on July 25, 2012, 06:18:23 pm
My first spaceplane: http://youtu.be/UNbJKQaqiWo
All stock parts except for the missiles made by JellyCube.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 25, 2012, 07:01:29 pm
So this works.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hell of a pain in the arse to launch; but it can fly w/o engine use after launching. It consists of a nearly complete circle of swept wings; the natural shape they form if you stack enough end to end. The two rudders give excellent yaw control, and the front canards allow for motion. By slowly flapping the canards up and down, the entire craft flexes; this provides the thrust and lift necessary for the craft to fly. As cool as that image is, it unfortunately doesn't fully convey how cool the subtle lift-providing flex looks in action.

To launch it, I used launch clamps under every second or third swept wing, with some vertical-pointing tails attached to separators under the front half. Without said tails for support, the back half would crash into the clamps holding the front half.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on July 25, 2012, 07:19:46 pm
Quote from: alway on July 25, 2012, 07:01:29 pm
As cool as that image is, it unfortunately doesn't fully convey how cool the subtle lift-providing flex looks in action.
Then why not make a video of it? ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 25, 2012, 07:31:47 pm
SHOW US EVAS WHILE YOUR AT IT!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 25, 2012, 07:41:48 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on July 25, 2012, 07:19:46 pm
Quote from: alway on July 25, 2012, 07:01:29 pm
As cool as that image is, it unfortunately doesn't fully convey how cool the subtle lift-providing flex looks in action.
Then why not make a video of it? ;)
Because lazy. Also because that was the only time it launched successfully. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 26, 2012, 12:24:15 am
Downloaded the new version and gave it a try today. Turns out that switching back to your ship while a kerbalnaut is in EVA causes a pretty hefty amount of lag. Also, I tried to see what would happen if I opened the parachute on the pod while letting one of the kerbalnauts crash into the water and died. Turns out the pod disappeared without a trace and I couldn't switch back to it or find it on the map. Not sure what the deal there was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2012, 01:10:30 am
I can't make a working plane no more, they all crash in the sea at the end of the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 26, 2012, 07:59:47 am
Add more wings.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 26, 2012, 08:13:15 am
Spoiler: A normal landing for Jeb (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2012, 08:42:44 am
lies, jeb has a red suit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 26, 2012, 08:48:36 am
They killed Jeb D':
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 26, 2012, 11:26:28 am
No they didn't. He was on my first rocket  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2012, 12:44:36 pm
Quote from: Sirus on July 26, 2012, 11:26:28 am
No they didn't. He was on my first rocket  ???

snakey pete made bogus claim about jeb, he's the one that has killed it. him. kim. whatever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 26, 2012, 01:50:51 pm
Huh. I dropped Jeb from half the atmosphere up and he survived :[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2012, 02:12:38 pm
so many science needed.

anyone knows the terminal velocity of a pilot? does it change going headfirst? so many questions...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 26, 2012, 10:27:50 pm
Oh god I started playing the free version and then I got into SPACE and I was orbiting around the SUN and the first time it was pretty NORMAL and the second it was SIMILAR TO KERBIN'S and the third time it was very ECCENTRIC and I like this game
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 26, 2012, 11:01:34 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2012, 12:44:36 pm
Quote from: Sirus on July 26, 2012, 11:26:28 am
No they didn't. He was on my first rocket  ???

snakey pete made bogus claim about jeb, he's the one that has killed it. him. kim. whatever.

They have orange suits in the pilot screens while flying a rocket, but they have white suits when they get out and EVA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 28, 2012, 04:38:07 pm
Found something which could prove extremely helpful for those building large space stations:
I present, a method for attaching and detaching modules at will!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The basic idea is an outer ring of some sort; in this case, the 3 horizontal structural fuselages provide the holding ring. Inside this ring goes the module; this module has 1 or 2 sets (depending on how the ring is built) of heavy landing gear. These can be extended to lock the module into place in the ring. A series of craft which consist of a forward bit for attaching to a ring, and a backward bit consisting of a ring for the next craft to 'dock' with.
Shown in extended gear position, with stage separation having occurred:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As demonstrated below, it has enough tolerance for a decent amount of force; it should be sufficient for keeping a station together in any case.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So yeah; you can now build massive space stations by docking several craft together. :)

Edit: First version of pretty much the most basic version is now in orbit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now comes the tricky part; inserting another and docking them. >_<

Edit 2: Goddamn; note to self: add RCS rockets next time. As you can see from the previous image, all they have is the main engines. Docking this is harder than I thought...

Edit 3: Bah; after several failed docking attempts, the craft does not have enough main engines left to dock with the other one. >_> I really need to add RC engines...

Edit 4: Well, I managed to successfully link up 2 of those craft in orbit. Though the design needs to be reworked, as they linked up incorrectly (due to fitting through spaces left in the design) and ended up connected at 90 degrees to one another. But still! 2 ship space station has now be created.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 31, 2012, 12:16:40 am
You're doing well to dock another craft together. Usually i'd never be able to get more than about 2km from another station (in passing usually) and just gave up trying after a while.

And the reason i came here, a screenshot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on July 31, 2012, 12:32:37 am
I accidentally sent one of my guys floating towards the endless nothingness of outer space.. oops.  :-[
But hey, at least I finally got out of Kerbin's magnetic pull.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on July 31, 2012, 12:53:26 am
Magnetic Pull?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 31, 2012, 12:54:53 am
wrong constant, m8.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on July 31, 2012, 02:25:25 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on July 31, 2012, 12:16:40 am
And the reason i came here, a screenshot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Very nice, good sir. Very nice indeed. Did you get there all stock parts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Briggsy16 on July 31, 2012, 02:40:28 am
Magnetic pull, oh god no
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 31, 2012, 03:08:01 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on July 31, 2012, 12:32:37 am
I accidentally sent one of my guys floating towards the endless nothingness of outer space.. oops.  :-[
But hey, at least I finally got out of Kerbin's magnetic pull.

Related: I made some cheat fuel tanks and flew out of the solar system to see what happens. The answer: nothing interesting, just as in reality. I tried flying into the sun, as well, and succeeded, finding that, unlike reality, it doesn't do anything interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: yarr on July 31, 2012, 03:12:32 am
Mhh? Last I heard if you get to close to the sun your rocket/whatever explodes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 31, 2012, 03:17:23 am
I was 800,000 at the closest, which, considering how close it apparently was, is pretty much inside. I'm on the free version, though, so that may not be implemented.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 31, 2012, 03:22:52 am
Quote from: Putnam on July 31, 2012, 03:17:23 am
I was 800,000 at the closest, which, considering how close it apparently was, is pretty much inside. I'm on the free version, though, so that may not be implemented.
Oh yeah. In the free version, the sun is just a giant light source (which according to legend can slingshot you somehow).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 31, 2012, 03:25:19 am
Empirical evidence has shown me the opposite: going around the sun, using it as a gravity source, slowed me down. I was at my fastest at the periapsis.

Which doesn't make much sense, but oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 31, 2012, 03:53:02 am
After getting tired of gargantuan single-stage spaceplanes, I decided to dabble in the microscopic constructions of a quite different nature.

Behold, the Personal Escape&Reentry Device.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/PERD/screenshot131.png)

This small (0.81t) and almost reliable device can allow a single Kerbal to safely plummet to the surface of a planet with an atmosphere, and survive the landing.

Construction is easy, as the device is comprised of just seven parts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is the log of the latest, most complex test performed:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Be advised, there is a bug in 0.16 that will cause any Kerbal passing the 100km altitude mark while attached to a ladder to be violently kicked away from it. Don't send multiple Kerbals out on these devices if you're still above that altitude. It's quite possible to still catch up to and enter the pod up to a ~30km altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on July 31, 2012, 04:30:05 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 31, 2012, 03:53:02 am
After getting tired of gargantuan single-stage spaceplanes, I decided to dabble in the microscopic constructions of a quite different nature.

Behold, the Personal Escape&Reentry Device.
*snip*
Yeah, I saw this on the KSP forums; very clever. Just the sort of thing the Kerbal Science department would come up with.
On a less impressive note, I've finally had my first successful Mun mission! The first try was not so successful, with the crew being flung out of Mun orbit to constantly be damned to orbit the sun. Forever. Or, at least until we managed to cobble together a rescue team.
On a brighter note, here is the log from that mission:
Spoiler: BIG IMAGES (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragonshardz on July 31, 2012, 04:58:43 am
So.

I picked up the beta version about an hour ago.

My Kerbals are now in a semi-stable orbit around the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on July 31, 2012, 06:29:11 am
Quote from: Spaghetti7 on July 31, 2012, 04:30:05 am
Yeah, I saw this on the KSP forums; very clever. Just the sort of thing the Kerbal Science department would come up with.

IMO the real project is just as kerbal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE
As the article puts it, "falling from orbit protected by nothing more than a spacesuit and a bag of foam was unlikely to ever become a particularly safe—or enticing—maneuver".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 31, 2012, 08:15:32 am
Quote from: Putnam on July 31, 2012, 03:25:19 am
Empirical evidence has shown me the opposite: going around the sun, using it as a gravity source, slowed me down. I was at my fastest at the periapsis.

Which doesn't make much sense, but oh well.
First of all, you always go faster at the periapsis; that's how orbits work.

Secondly, you can use the sun to magic-slingshot yourself to extremely high velocities in the old versions. However, this requires stopping nearly all non-vertical velocity, in order for the craft to fall directly into the sun's center. As you approach, your speed rapidly increases, and due to the way Euler Integration* works, the extraordinary velocity combined with the extraordinary acceleration means you exit with a much larger velocity then you entered with; enough to throw you from the system in seconds in some cases. (see also these posts, where I first utilized this effect: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg2907369#msg2907369)

*that being the technical term for how position and velocity are updated in video games: p += v * dt and v += a * dt
When the change is very large per dt, inaccuracies become much worse. Due to moving faster on the outward path than inward (accelerated via gravity) there are less time steps in the path out from the sun than the path in, making the escape from the sun much more inaccurately calculated than the entrance, resulting in less speed being remove than was added on the way in, thus accelerating the craft massively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on July 31, 2012, 10:34:18 am
Quote from: Rez on July 31, 2012, 12:54:53 am
wrong constant, m8.

Yeah I know, I were looking for the right words but they kept eluding me.
And it was late in the night whe I wrote that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on July 31, 2012, 10:41:24 am
I need to buy this version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 31, 2012, 05:53:41 pm
So...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(posted by a dev on the KSP forums)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 31, 2012, 05:56:45 pm
8D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on July 31, 2012, 06:10:29 pm
Why is the sky red?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on July 31, 2012, 06:12:34 pm
Very nice.

I'll be very happy to have other places to travel to. The new parts, however, are giving me a bit of a challenge just getting to the Mun. I've managed the small capsule, it was just like old times, the larger capsule though requires a bit of rethinking. The big tanks can easily be crushed by too many tanks higher up, or, as I found out earlier, crushed by excessive thrust from the bottom. My last design which managed to orbit the mun, but not actually land, could not be pushed much above half thrust on the first stage or else the whole thing would collapse in on itself. And that's after liberal use of struts to keep things together.

There is some refining to be done there, I expect.

Quote from: MrWiggles on July 31, 2012, 06:10:29 pm
Why is the sky red?

That's most likely a screenshot from another planet. One of the listed goals for the next version is to add more planets and moons to explore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 31, 2012, 06:15:20 pm
I've found attaching some small half height fuel tanks to the sides of the large tanks, and using those as a point to attach inter stage bracing works somewhat ok to get rockets into orbit. However, I think the ideal rocket is going to be some kind of onion design that's only about 2-3 tanks high for the main stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 31, 2012, 06:22:24 pm
Quote from: greatorder on July 31, 2012, 06:20:51 pm
I thought they were releasing all the other planets in one lump?
Why? Kerbin didn't even get both of it's moons in one lump :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on July 31, 2012, 06:27:34 pm
I've been using small pylons to get struts between vertical stages, but that's not a bad idea either.

My designs haven't been absurdly tall yet. The tallest was only 4 large tanks high plus capsule. Even my 3 tank + capsule was suffering from crushing at high thrusts.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on July 31, 2012, 06:30:22 pm
They've stated that they're releasing "many" planets and moons in this update.
Supposedly the overall goal is to have 4 rock and 4 gaseous planets, though i'm not sure we'll see all of those in this update.

edit: update log here (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=17595.0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 31, 2012, 06:36:00 pm
One of these days, someone is going to find a way to land on a gaseous planet.

And it will be glorious and probably crushing experience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on July 31, 2012, 08:29:23 pm
I'm really excited for the next update. The current one didn't really hold my interest, but all these planets will be fun to explore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 01, 2012, 12:02:41 am
Crap. Does the last part of the changelog means we will have to wait two months for bugfixes of current issues?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on August 01, 2012, 12:16:28 am
Ok, spaceplanes are fucking difficult. Mine keep rolling into awesome crashes. Any tips?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on August 01, 2012, 12:23:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on August 01, 2012, 12:02:41 am
Crap. Does the last part of the changelog means we will have to wait two months for bugfixes of current issues?

Seems like we'll have to wait till 0.17 for them

On the other hand, i expect that this update cycle might be a bit quicker, the tasks *seem* smallish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on August 01, 2012, 03:53:16 pm
How do I switch back to controlling the ship after one of my crew goes EVA?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on August 01, 2012, 04:02:34 pm
I believe you select which to control with the bracket keys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on August 01, 2012, 07:52:33 pm
I have been trying to get an outpost to the Mun. So far I have had mixed results.

Spoiler: In orbit (click to show/hide)

The goal is to have this entire section land. There are ladders all over the place so the crew can (in theory) climb down from the capsule.

Launch was difficult and getting the apos to 11.4 million KM took forever (the orbit stage is 6 tiny engines).

Descent is annoying as well. Pushing around that much mass with 6 of the tiny engines makes it hard to react if you start your retro burn late. I ended up desending over the course of 5 to 10 minutes.

It went... okay.

Spoiler: What do you mean, "not successful"? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on August 03, 2012, 07:24:46 am
Can someone please give me a mirror for Mechjeb, Damned Robotics, Damned Aeronautics and that crew thing that was also in the damned Aeronautics thread?
Fucking forum move..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 04, 2012, 11:24:18 pm
Okay, I finally broke down and gave mechjeb a try. I am happy to note I can still USUALLY do things more efficiently if I do them by hand, but it is handy at least to just keep the nose pointed in a specific direction and as a source of a bit more information. (Exact inclination info is always nice.) Would also be nice to be able to use mechjeb with an empty capsule, but I guess that's asking a bit much at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vactor on August 05, 2012, 06:50:05 pm
I've been playing around with the demo version, but I keep getting random crashes on the map midway through munar missions.  Is this fixed in the full version?  I've also been getting some incredibly low frame rates in the ship builder, like less than 1 FPS whenever i build a three stage rocket.  Limiting lighting and shadows seems to have no effect, and my computer should have no trouble running this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 05, 2012, 06:51:48 pm
You're on your own with the demo. It is so far behind the paid version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on August 05, 2012, 09:51:14 pm
There have been a great number of performance improvements and crash fixes since the demo, however i can't guarantee that the particular issues you have have been fixed, but its more than likely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 06, 2012, 01:09:25 am
Quote from: Vactor on August 05, 2012, 06:50:05 pm
I've also been getting some incredibly low frame rates in the ship builder, like less than 1 FPS whenever i build a three stage rocket.  Limiting lighting and shadows seems to have no effect, and my computer should have no trouble running this.


ship builder in the demo always did that, because of distance from camera stuff and details of components.

but!

first thing first: if you0re that confident, my guess is a proud i5 owner; if that's the case, check that ksp is running on the discrete graphics and not on the integrated one.

can't say how to do that, but I remember this kind of issues back then.

but!

not all is lost: there is a 'low poli mod' that greatly reduce the game requirement changing all standard parts with equal ones having lower resource usage.

sadly, after the forum changes, all links to that are broken.
you'll have too look around or ask in the modder forum for it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 10, 2012, 01:50:55 pm
Spoiler: the morituriner mk2 (click to show/hide)

the resolution should hint at the massive lag this ship causes:

Spoiler: liftoff baby! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on August 10, 2012, 02:17:28 pm
I've found that the updated version lags terribly as well.  Even rockets with barely enough reaction mass to manually fly a munar craft into orbit lag ridiculously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on August 10, 2012, 02:39:15 pm
Speaking of framerates, 0.14.4 was the best and runs okay on an old Nvidia 9400. Anything above(0.15 at least, haven't tried the latest version yet) is simply unplayable on that spec due to changes in the graphic engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 10, 2012, 03:18:51 pm
I had hoped that disabling the component-on-component collision in .16 would have allowed for ship of massive scale..

oh, well.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on August 10, 2012, 10:48:19 pm
I'm still on 13.3 I thought it was the last free version ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on August 11, 2012, 12:38:32 am
Yeah, but we bought the game :)

0.16 lags a lot less, because of much bigger components. you need less parts, so less lag.
Also the explosions has been reworked, and uses less resources.


also, get a better computer, i've had no troubles with lag(except maybe  bit of launch lag)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 11, 2012, 12:40:31 am
meh, the better computer is not really a valid excuse.

I could run bad company on my previous-previous-computer and I'd say it did quite a lot more of physics AND graphics.


there is really no excuse for being laggy on the 8 core monster I have now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 11, 2012, 12:44:52 am
Except only using a single core. Four cores is excessive. Eight cores is overkill for anything except professional 3D rendering and scientific simulations. Plus if you don't have an NVidia graphics card, you can't make use of hardware PhysX acceleration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on August 11, 2012, 01:05:56 am
so when you say laggy, do you mean FPS drop? and how many FPS?
or do you mean the game becomes unplayable?

Yes way excuse for being laggy!
This is an alpha program, that's it's excuse for being laggy.
Notice the 0. infront of the version? means it's not done yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 11, 2012, 01:12:36 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 11, 2012, 12:44:52 am
Except only using a single core. Four cores is excessive. Eight cores is overkill for anything except professional 3D rendering and scientific simulations. Plus if you don't have an NVidia graphics card, you can't make use of hardware PhysX acceleration.

it won't use nvidia it because of unity. also, being limited to one core only is precisely the problem. (but they actually use two)
thanks for the informed comment, anyway  :P

Spoiler: rant (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on August 11, 2012, 01:33:54 am
I've a pretty decent computer... KSP is pretty bad when it comes to FPS. When I get too much on screen or launch with more then just a few engines, my FPS plummets by a few dozen. Its not unplayable ever, just... not something you'd expect.

I wouldnt be bothered by it so much if there war some great visuals in the game, but its really just the simulations that are draining it so much. The game looks half a decade old. I'm hoping we start to see them spiffy it up a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on August 11, 2012, 08:41:46 am
I found something on the moon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also I successfully landed crashed sofly crashed into Mun. I feel proud of myself, except for the whole stranding-them-on-Mun-forever thing. Wonder if that jetpack can get them back?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on August 11, 2012, 10:40:13 am
The jetpack alone can't get you home. But with the parts pack that adds empty command pods, you could land on the mun and pick them up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on August 11, 2012, 11:13:34 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on August 11, 2012, 08:41:46 am
I found something on the moon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also I successfully landed crashed sofly crashed into Mun. I feel proud of myself, except for the whole stranding-them-on-Mun-forever thing. Wonder if that jetpack can get them back?
Well, that looks cool. I heard there was a monolith on the moon somewhere, but I never heard of an arch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on August 11, 2012, 11:23:18 am
Quote from: Thendash on August 11, 2012, 10:40:13 am
The jetpack alone can't get you home. But with the parts pack that adds empty command pods, you could land on the mun and pick them up.

IIRC the jetpack can get you home, but won't be enough to stop you from pancaking into the ground.
As for rescue missions, you don't need mods for that. Simply use the 3-seat command pod, then EVA one of the kerbals. While controlling the kerbal, select End Flight. That'll get rid of the kerbal, but the rocket will remain on the launch pad with an empty seat. Repeat for a second empty seat if necessary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on August 11, 2012, 08:10:47 pm
Is there a way to have multiple command pods? That mission was sort of the rescue mission for my first moon "landing" (got distracted by shiny arch on the way ).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on August 11, 2012, 08:30:29 pm
You can have empty command pods with this: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/15016-0-16-Crew-able-empty-pods-0-3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on August 12, 2012, 03:42:05 am
Well, I tried to land on Minmus. Sort of failed the landing bit but everyone survived. The Command pod was rolling down a hill and I EVA'd there. Being crushed over-and-over by the Command Pod diddn't stop Macby Kerman though as he let go onto the planet and straight into this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Which is quite creepy.

I went to the tracking station and found that he must be hurtling out of the solar system. I cannot select him, and moments later he disappeared without a trace, so he must have been hurtling out of known space. The command pod also teleported back into space.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 12, 2012, 04:07:05 am
Ah, looks like one of your brave kerbonauts has managed to work himself into NULLSPACE.

He effectively exists in another universe that has no dimensions. He doesn't exist anymore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on August 12, 2012, 05:28:56 am
Well, the Command Pod Macby Kerman was in, after a brief period of time having dissapeared from the universe, have now reapeared and are hurtling out of the solar system.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Of course the game has a very different opinion on what hurtling out of the solar system means. They shall journey to the center of the sun. FOR SCIENCE.

Spoiler: Gusley Kerman stares at fate (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Definetely a successful mission (click to show/hide)

(The game is starting to bug up considerably, this is fun)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: malloc on August 12, 2012, 05:55:35 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 11, 2012, 12:44:52 am
Except only using a single core. Four cores is excessive. Eight cores is overkill for anything except professional 3D rendering and scientific simulations. Plus if you don't have an NVidia graphics card, you can't make use of hardware PhysX acceleration.

I think you misunderstand a few things. Firstly, while it's true that threading and using multiple cores is hard, it's only people who actually program in lowerlevel compiled languages like c/c++ who have to actually worry about such things.

Unity, which the game is running in, utilizes C#, UnityScript and a python like language called Boo. All modern implementations of these languages do actually, makes use of some sort of native multithreading. So having 8 cores will in fact get you more performance when playing games made in unity.

Lastly, newer versions of PhysX actually benefit A LOT from multiple cores if you have a non-Nvidia GPU.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on August 12, 2012, 06:18:24 am
For performace, Im running on an i7 with a GeForce 555m with good performance. Only flaky during launching some of my more... bizzare rockets.

In regards to multicore performace, it depends heavily on many things. If you add more of the same core at the same frequency, it will either run faster or no difference. But I think what some people are trying to say is that generally on the more-core processors, each core runs somewhat slower than an individual core from a less-core processor (Okay, bad english there). It depends very heavily on the program, the processor architecture etc etc.

Also what processor are you running that has eight cores? Is it just a HyperThreaded i7, or some sort of server processor/consumer-processor-I-dont-know-about?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on August 12, 2012, 04:10:44 pm
Returning from the surface of the moon using eva: http://youtu.be/5JeDAvNXnEc This guy has some brilliant videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 12, 2012, 07:24:17 pm
I just installed the Remote Tech Relay Network and I'm trying to get a communications satellite network up and running. (So far, no luck, mostly due to poor design of either the satellite itself or the rockets to launch them. I do, however, Have quite a lot of debris in equatorial orbit which can be !fun!.

The re balancing has screwed with the knack I developed and I'm having to relearn my rocket balancing and fuel:thrust ratios as well learn how to mix the new larger modules with the older smaller ones effectively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on August 12, 2012, 09:48:00 pm
I just got that mod and the ISA Map mod and have begun mapping Kerbal from space with a remote control satellite!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And this is the crowded orbit around Kerbal after launching all 5 of my nav sats.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on August 12, 2012, 10:07:16 pm
So is it true that there a second launch site on Kerbal?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on August 13, 2012, 03:16:19 am
There's a second space centre, but you can't launch anything from it. There are things on the navball that point towards/away from it, if you want to find it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 17, 2012, 08:26:38 pm
Seems I also found that Mun Arch. Got a nice picture for scale comparison:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like it's about 175m tall.

Spoiler: location spoilers (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 17, 2012, 08:43:09 pm
i just love how there are only two ends for a mission, abort and fail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 18, 2012, 07:58:10 pm
Due to a misspelling in official paperwork, the military was rather disappointed upon seeing the results of PROJECT SPACE MARINES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In retrospect, rocket-powered drop-marinas did seem like an odd request, but project engineers didn't care; they got paid either way.

Several months later, a luxury boating company acquired the project, adding the slogan "park your boat, anytime, anywhere."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 18, 2012, 08:05:20 pm
really?


wow, you got time on your hands.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 18, 2012, 08:13:36 pm
It's actually my most successful VTOL to date. :P
If I added slightly more fuel, it could make it into orbit without too much trouble; thus giving my space drop-marinas a pretty much global range. The advanced SAS takes care of takeoff, which is completely vertical, followed by rotating at a 90 degree angle at apogee and attempting orbit. The air drag + parachutes will slow it to ~10 m/s and rotate it to completely horizontal, enough for the platform to survive; a small amount of fuel to drop that to near 0m/s is all that's required to land with the engines intact. Those 4 engines are actually all it uses; it starts with 4 T-16 tanks which are jettisoned, but aside from those and the ones in the image, it doesn't use any more fuel (though I will be adding another set of T-16 tanks or two for full orbital capability).

It's more an experiment in VTOLing large structures to orbit than anything else; and it most definitely shows it could be viable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 18, 2012, 08:28:59 pm
if you can fold it up it'll be more usefull.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 18, 2012, 08:39:47 pm
i just made ANOTHER satalite. with the demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on August 18, 2012, 11:47:50 pm
KSP: The Movie:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiriapCvfAE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 19, 2012, 02:58:01 pm
Quote from: Thendash on August 18, 2012, 11:47:50 pm
KSP: The Movie:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiriapCvfAE
They need to get Michael Bay for it. Finally a film where the sheer quantity and pointlessness of explosions will have a purpose!

More Orbital Drop Marinas!
Spoiler: De-orbiting (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Parachutes deploy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Parachutes open (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Safe landing (click to show/hide)

This improved version has both greatly increased size and enough fuel to land anywhere on the planet. In this case, it landed almost exactly on the opposite side of the planet.


Edit: Also, I updated my O-ship to make it even more nutty:
Spoiler: OH SHIP (click to show/hide)
It actually flies; though take-off procedures are a bit unusual.
Note that the center bits that extend into the tail aren't connected anywhere but up at the front of the craft; the innards and O-ring move separately. Though they are connected where the tail meets the O-ring in the back until post-launch, as they otherwise need lift to prevent snapping off.

Edit2: Extended the tail; now it flies in a really interesting way. Any by flies, I mean you manually tell the craft to nose up and nose down, cycling between the two about once every 2 seconds or so. Rather elegant in that it effectively swims through the air.
Spoiler: tail extended (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, I cannot make it much longer due to the size of the construction hangar; it's about as long as it can get, and is also on the upper limits of width; though I think I can make it wider by moving the cockpit to the side.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 20, 2012, 08:23:51 pm
wont that be fun?

yes, do that. make a spaceplane that requires NO fuel while in  air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on August 21, 2012, 02:23:08 pm
Done already. I'm pretty sure this one work like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 21, 2012, 04:45:27 pm
Yeah; those are old hat at this point. :P

We were doing that back in .13, back before the planes construction and wings; there are some images and such earlier in this thread.
Edit: here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg2920199;topicseen#msg2920199).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on August 21, 2012, 10:23:03 pm
Quote from: Japa on January 21, 2012, 02:38:55 pm
YES

HELL YES

HELL

FUCKING

YES!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on August 21, 2012, 11:25:49 pm
Spoiler: A far too stingy attempt to reach the Mun. (click to show/hide)

First flight ended in a controlled abort when I forgot to turn the SAS on that landed the capsule around the north pole.

Spoiler: Second flight ended with a very controlled abort. (click to show/hide)

I'm obviously going to need a meatier rocket.

Also, it turns out that you can make debris explode by pushing it around by hand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 22, 2012, 01:25:09 pm
wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on August 22, 2012, 06:59:36 pm
GOD

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

DAMMIT

I cut engine and dropped the last two meters or so, with a listed speed of about 2.7m/s.  How soft do you have to land these fucking things?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 22, 2012, 08:07:13 pm
Attach legs to tanks and not to the engine which is quite frail itself.

If you use big engines go for the bigger legs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Boksi on August 22, 2012, 11:55:10 pm
I've only managed to get to the Mun twice so far. First time, I went too fast and everybody died. The second time...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on August 23, 2012, 12:42:50 am
Send a rescue mission! IIRC there are mods which add empty pods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on August 23, 2012, 12:06:25 pm
Ooh next version is going to be good.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/17334-0-17-Update-Video-from-C7 (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/17334-0-17-Update-Video-from-C7)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 23, 2012, 12:56:49 pm
I still want docking more than just about anything in this game. (The campaign mode would be nice though, and I think we're seeing progress towards that with the mission scripting.)

But yeah. Rescue missions. One of my favorite things to do, I'm actually generally happy when I get a survivable crash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on August 23, 2012, 01:11:42 pm
Quote from: sluissa on August 23, 2012, 12:56:49 pm
But yeah. Rescue missions. One of my favorite things to do, I'm actually generally happy when I get a survivable crash.
The worst thing is trying to dock 2 spacecraft in orbit. I had a satellite crew stranded in orbit and failed to get them back down. It's rather difficult.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 23, 2012, 01:31:48 pm
It isn't easy, but the map makes it a lot easier. Personally, I've done enough orbital rendezvous in Orbiter that it wasn't that bad. Just remember to go faster, you have to slow down and to slow down, speed up.

If you need to meet up with something that is ahead of you in its orbit. Make your orbit smaller than it's is. The smaller yours is compared to its, the faster you will catch up (or shoot past) Alternative, if you're ahead of an object you want to meet. Make your orbit a bit bigger, you'll take longer to go around and let the other craft catch up.

To adjust inclination (the angle at which you cross the equator) aim 90 degrees left or right(if you're going east, to 90 degrees, aim at 0 or 180) from your direction of travel and thrust. Your direction of travel will move, so to avoid changing your orbit too much, try to change your thrust direction as your direction of travel changes. Good rule of thumb is to keep the two green markers at opposite edges of your nav ball.

If you need to meet an orbit's odd inclination, you might need to do more than one of these maneuvers. Try to do it where your orbit crosses the target orbit. Also, I believe if you have an elliptical orbit, you save a bit of fuel by trying to do these at higher altitudes, not sure if it's enough to specially make your orbit oblong, but if you're already doing it to slow yourself down to meet the target...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 23, 2012, 02:26:50 pm
there's a contact page on the website, you could probably pop them an email, see if they can do anything for you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on August 23, 2012, 06:10:37 pm
Quote from: greatorder on August 23, 2012, 01:58:16 pm
Welp, can't access my KSP forums account. need to reset my password, but the e-mail address is an account I can't remember the password to, nor can I answer the security question for that e-mail account because I can't remember it.

as long as I can access the store account, I should be fine.

You're in luck. What's the name of your account?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2012, 02:33:09 pm
all too quiet  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 10, 2012, 03:25:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2012, 02:33:09 pm
all too quiet  ::)

mouseover
https://xkcd.com/1106/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on September 10, 2012, 03:27:03 pm
I was just thinking about that!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on September 11, 2012, 07:26:37 pm
So, how the hell do you make a spaceplane?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 11, 2012, 07:37:26 pm
Quote from: Scelly9 on September 11, 2012, 07:26:37 pm
So, how the hell do you make a spaceplane?
1: Obtain parts
2: Put them together in ways that look about right
3: Lots of trial and error and deaths
4: Success.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on September 11, 2012, 07:39:47 pm
Quote from: Scelly9 on September 11, 2012, 07:26:37 pm
So, how the hell do you make a spaceplane?

Depends on your definition of space plane?

Most people seem to just call a normal atmospheric plane a "Space plane,"  I usually reserve the definition for a horizontal launched plane that can boost itself into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 12, 2012, 01:07:56 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 15, 2012, 07:27:08 pm
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13TwLREJBuJaqnYhNsqt_tT-SPuhxE1WAu-jQpvXl0Xg/edit

Here, have a look

Also you need the full version or the demo with the c7 aereospace mod
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 12, 2012, 02:47:05 am
I always thought Soviet N1 rocket was way better looking than anything NASA ever came up with and it's also most badass rocket ever build.

This game looks like fun. I'll try it, thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 12, 2012, 03:04:59 am
Yeah... all true... except the N1 never worked. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 12, 2012, 04:30:54 am
It would have worked though :P

I'm betting on release next week. 3? new planets, 8? new moons? going to be epic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 12, 2012, 05:01:25 am
4 failed launches including one that destroyed the launch pad and caused the largest non-nuclear explosion ever?

Their attempt to dismantle the remaining rockets and hide the parts as buildings to cover-up the fact that the program ever existed?

Yeah, it would have worked... eventually... with enough redesigns...

I will admit the US had quite a bit of luck on their side up through the Apollo program, not counting 1 and 13, although 13 still got very lucky. The N1 just had too many problems to work as it was, even with all the luck in the world.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 12, 2012, 05:18:47 am
IMO the Soyuz rockets looks way better than the N1,
They look like a bottle rockets with firecrackers on the sides: awesome :)

that said, back to the game:
I think they should do some work(in the far future) on making long slender rockets better, since right now, that's kind of the worst design possible. This might be due to the lack of proper air resistance calculations.
I'd love to not have my rockets look like a thick cylinder.

But oh man, so pumped for the next update, whenever it arrives. The last update was kinda gimmicky(But added very important assets for later).
We should have Race to see who gets to the new planets first, and the grand price to the one who visits all the planets first.
And Uber Mega price to that one guy that somehow manages to land on all the planets and moons with a single rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 12, 2012, 05:21:53 am
Oh, I never said N1 was the most badass working rocket.

On the contrary. Exploding all over the place makes it even more awesome.

Jokes aside, I just really like the N1 design.
Hope I can make a 30-trusters-powered-first-stage-and-then-some rocket in this game too. I'm downloading demo now.

edit: oh yes, soyuz are classic to. But still like the N1 more because it just feels even more different.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 12, 2012, 06:14:49 am
The thirty thruster thingy was what prevented it from working. Getting 30 different thrusters to work in Unison is rather hard.

Also, the N1 explosion pretty much killed of the Sovjet spaceprogram. Quite a few important scientists died in the explosion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 12, 2012, 10:19:08 am
I do think that was less of a problem than A: the testing and reliability of some of the hardware. (A lot of it had to do with faulty pumps which were going to be fixed on later rockets if it'd continued. and B: The inability of the rocket to compensate for loss of various engines. Which was a harder problem, but probably could have been fixed with drastic redesigns of either the engines or the steering systems. (They were working hard on a redesign of the steering systems, but again, the program was cut short.)

Pogo-ing(Jerky acceleration causing fuel slosh and pressure change which could self-perpetuate and if meeting the right frequency cause catastrophic failure.) change was also a problem, but tended to be a problem for Saturn rockets as well. I believe we've pretty much got that sorted out these days though, so I don't think that would have been anything that couldn't have been fixed.

Like I said, enough time and enough drastic redesign could have done it, but yes, scientists were killed, and most of this research was being done after Apollo 11, which meant that they were wasting time, lives and money on a race they already lost. Might have even continued if that explosion hadn't shown they had more to lose than a few rockets which were mostly already built.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dragor23 on September 12, 2012, 01:00:47 pm
Spoiler: BEHOLD! GENESIS MK.3! THE FIRST ROCKET WHO I GOT IN A STABLE ORBIT AROUND KERBIN! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 12, 2012, 02:38:35 pm
Why are you using the large decouplers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 12, 2012, 02:47:19 pm
And why is everything boosters?
Boosters are basically the worst thing. And it's not really needed to have it so high up either. And the boosters could well blow each other up the way one is directly over the other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dragor23 on September 12, 2012, 02:52:17 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on September 12, 2012, 02:38:35 pm
Why are you using the large decouplers?
Because I didn't knew there were small ones. Derp.

Quote from: Graknorke
And why is everything boosters?
Boosters are basically the worst thing. And it's not really needed to have it so high up either. And the boosters could well blow each other up the way one is directly over the other.
There are two liquid engines, and these boosters actually go off seperate. When the first six pack is spent, they go off and the second one starts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 12, 2012, 02:56:25 pm
You might actually be better staging the solid boosters a bit more. 6, 3, 3 or even 3, 3, 3, 3 With the little bit of weight you're sending up you MIGHT even be able to get away with 3, 3, 2, 2, 2. Just make sure you always keep the thrust even. Don't want 2-3 on the same side all going off at once rather than 2 or 3 equally spaced.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 12, 2012, 03:18:33 pm
Yeah, 3,3,2,2,2 works beautifully, but I know it's still not the most efficient way of doing things. I'll leave it to you how to improve it from there. ;) Enjoy.


Edit: Sorry, meant this as an edit to the last post, not a new one. Apologies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 12, 2012, 03:38:08 pm
I should probably work on how I do boosters. Because I don't really do boosters so well. Most of the time I just stick a load more liquid fuel rockets on the side that feed fuel into the central column so that they run out first.

Instead I just try and make rockets as tall as possible. They are now at the point where they start snapping in half, they wobble so much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 13, 2012, 01:08:22 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 12, 2012, 03:38:08 pm
I should probably work on how I do boosters. Because I don't really do boosters so well. Most of the time I just stick a load more liquid fuel rockets on the side that feed fuel into the central column so that they run out first.

Instead I just try and make rockets as tall as possible. They are now at the point where they start snapping in half, they wobble so much.
I use the same method, i call it The Dropper.
Like you said, feeds to inner engines and drops the outer ones.
This is as far as i know the most efficient design.
BUT you rocket ends up looking like a cylinder.

Using this method i landed on the Mun with 6 engines each with 4 full fuel tank, and a secondary lander on top(i flew to minmus with it after i landed on the mun). This was in the last version though, before the large fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2012, 01:33:35 pm
Spoiler: Am I doing it right? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 13, 2012, 01:36:58 pm
Except for a distinct lack of anything that would actually get it into space, looks great. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2012, 01:46:03 pm
Hehehe, yeah, this is a distinctly atmo-only plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2012, 01:55:43 pm
Spoiler: Well, I sorta landed (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 13, 2012, 02:49:31 pm
Any landing you can propel yourself away from under your own power...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2012, 02:58:12 pm
Spoiler: Booyah. (click to show/hide)
Can't take off again, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2012, 03:17:57 pm
Why the wing pieces pointing down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2012, 03:22:48 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2012, 03:17:57 pm
Why the wing pieces pointing down?
Gravity. They're straight in the hangar. maybe I should have them angled slightly upwards
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2012, 04:06:56 pm
Since the size multiplication, wing tips require struts to the fuselage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 13, 2012, 08:23:23 pm
I'll put this here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is a fully working and balanced VTOL which can go from hover to fly mid-flight and back again, it can also take off either way. It is mostly stock parts with a couple of mod parts for the engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 13, 2012, 10:02:03 pm
That is pretty darn impressive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 14, 2012, 12:01:30 pm
I concur.

Finally got around to play it after downloading demo few days ago...and it is quite fun! I had more failed than successful missions though. Piloting anything bigger than 2 staged (plus command module) solid fuel powered rocket is not as easy as I thought. :P
Only after a lot of modifying and one hell of a ride I've managed to reach 22,000+ m, but even then I've had to drop two stages before they run out of fuel.

For buyers of full game: is camera when you are constructing rockets any better than in demo? While I do not find it specifically bad, I'd still like the option to move it a bit more freely, not just around one fixed point.

Constructing N1 does not seem possible in demo, so I'll probably have to buy full version...somewhere in future, though.  :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2012, 12:10:16 pm
Try combinations of shift alt and middle click, should work in the demo iirc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 14, 2012, 01:18:43 pm
Sinistar, the camera kind of sucks in the full game.

Unrelated, would anyone like a video of or the ship file for the vtol?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 14, 2012, 01:39:57 pm
Thanks for answers, LoSboccacc and Urist McScoopbeard. Also checked KSP wiki. Turns out they will be some patches/upgrades on camera topic and also something I miss sorely - stats! I'd really like to know mass, average trust, fuel etc of a craft I am building WHEN I am buidling it.

One thing also bothers me - Kermans! I did not expect it but I actually find the little guys adorable. I am genuinely sad for them when I crash the rocket.  :(
It helps if I pretend every mission that failed was actually just a simulation for them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 14, 2012, 01:46:54 pm
Quote from: Sinistar on September 14, 2012, 01:39:57 pm
One thing also bothers me - Kermans! I did not expect it but I actually find the little guys adorable. I am genuinely sad for them when I crash the rocket.  :(
It helps if I pretend every mission that failed was actually just a simulation for them.

It's true, I tear up everytime dear old jebediah crashes violently into the mountains.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2012, 01:49:46 pm
I restart before crashes  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 14, 2012, 04:25:28 pm
That's sort of why I got the remote control mod. I can do my test flights without endangering the little buggers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on September 14, 2012, 04:50:04 pm
I laugh at their demise and bring out the next batch of non-dwarves for execution.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 16, 2012, 02:54:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Muncastles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 02:44:05 am
status update!

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/entry.php/108-0-17-Status-Update-1

Nuclear engines!
Parking brakes!
Atmospheric time warp!
Engineering! Science! Madness!

Spoiler: trolling advisor (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 18, 2012, 02:53:56 am
Perking breaks! Fuck yes!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 18, 2012, 03:18:56 am
Quote
* Center of mass, thrust, lift and drag visual cues on the construction scenes.
I am pleased with this, also. Now they just need to add average flight time/fuel consumption per stage and I'm sold.

Quote from: Roboboy33 on September 16, 2012, 02:54:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Muncastles.
And that's just sweet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 03:23:55 am
Quote from: Sinistar on September 18, 2012, 03:18:56 am
I am pleased with this, also. Now they just need to add average flight time/fuel consumption per stage and I'm sold.


http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/9063-Plugin-0-15-KICOIT-Kerbal-Engineer-0-8-Advanced-Brakes-v2-1

plugin that shows consumption and time, combined in a single DV stat
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Briggsy16 on September 18, 2012, 03:38:16 am
Loads more planets :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 18, 2012, 03:38:26 am
Oh damn you, now I'll really have to buy this game.

WHY UUUUUUUUUUUUU...

Jokes aside - do you guys use S.A.S.? First time I reached apoapsis was with a rocket, that had a basic S.A.S. module put on top of each 1st-stage side-mounted boosters. Now I'm wondering, is this a necessity? Are there any downsides from using this modules or am I guessing correctly that this will matter once (or if) the cost of used components will matter when building the rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 03:48:44 am
sas is nice as it can keep your lander straight even without burning the oh so precious rcs fuel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 18, 2012, 04:08:19 am
There are 2 differing levels of SAS. what is provided by the pods and the smaller SAS just provides force, whereas you need ASAS to actually lock the rocket's heading. It will then use the SAS force to control the ship (if possible) and RCS (if enabled). Basically, you only need one ASAS on a ship, its best to put it as high up as practical, and for big rockets more SAS modules will help with the SAS control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 18, 2012, 04:25:31 am
Has anybody found out how to select the order in which you use RCS fuel?
On my ships the game uses the fuel in the lander first, then uses the fuel lower on the rocket, leaving the lander without any rcs fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 18, 2012, 04:27:43 am
You can right click on fuel tanks to disable fuel from them
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 18, 2012, 04:34:57 am
Quote from: Japa on September 18, 2012, 04:27:43 am
You can right click on fuel tanks to disable fuel from them
uhm... nope...
you can't right click RCS fuel tanks.(well you can, but it doesn't do anything)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 04:41:43 am
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22918.0

trainage!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: scriver on September 18, 2012, 05:00:01 am
So... eh... That landing thing? What's that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on September 18, 2012, 05:05:14 am
So has anyone actualy managed to get a plane into orbit? I've never once seen it done in a LP, and I've never managed to pull it off myself. Apparantly too much thrust is a bad thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 05:07:03 am
Quote from: buckets on September 18, 2012, 05:05:14 am
So has anyone actualy managed to get a plane into orbit? I've never once seen it done in a LP, and I've never managed to pull it off myself. Apparantly too much thrust is a bad thing.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 09, 2012, 03:53:03 pm
changing topic...

Spoiler: single stage to orbit plane (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: halfway in the plane to the moon and back challenge (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: staged configuration (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: separation confirmed (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: second time on minmus, this time engines didn't fell off on landing (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: got back, lining up with runway (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: nice landing, challenge completed! (click to show/hide)



Quote from: Sheb on May 19, 2012, 11:55:30 am
Now, who'll be the first one to land on the moon and come back with a plane? I'd suggest using a massive plane, carrying a rocket (for interplanetary stuff), itself carryin a smaller plane/glider (for landing).


It is done  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 18, 2012, 12:00:31 pm
Just to be clear, Nuclear-thermal engines on spacecraft doesn't refer to a fission reaction,
but rather some radioactive matter decaying in a water tank, running a turbine, running an ion engine.
It's what we use on deep space probes, that gets too far from the sun to run on solar panels, like the voyager missions.
!! Science !!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 18, 2012, 12:05:56 pm
I tought it was just throwing nukes behind you to propel yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 18, 2012, 12:09:43 pm
That's nuclear pulse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 18, 2012, 12:12:15 pm
Oh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 12:23:13 pm
Quote from: ank on September 18, 2012, 12:00:31 pm
It's what we use on deep space probes

we use thermocouples, which are totally more awesome than water reactors
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 18, 2012, 12:35:51 pm
How they work: make one side hotter than the other, get electricity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 12:46:44 pm
*cough* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket)

Quote from: ank on September 18, 2012, 12:00:31 pm
Just to be clear, Nuclear-thermal engines on spacecraft doesn't refer to a fission reaction,
but rather some radioactive matter decaying in a water tank, running a turbine, running an ion engine.
It's what we use on deep space probes, that gets too far from the sun to run on solar panels, like the voyager missions.
!! Science !!

That would actually be an ion engine with a radioisotope thermoelectric generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator) or a traditional nuclear reactor as in the cancelled Project Prometheus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prometheus). In your case it's not actually the nuclear material that is directly propelling the craft, it's just generating electricity.

The NERVA rockets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA) were actually quite successful, but ended up the casualty of politics and budget cutting. (Imagine, we could have been on Mars in the 80s, if not for Nixon.) There was also, if I remember correctly a plan to build jet engines off of a similar principle, but that was canned pretty early as they realized it'd leave a trail of radioactive exhaust wherever it went. NERVA probably also had similar problems, but given that it wouldn't spend much time in the atmosphere, the benefits were likely to outweigh the risks as long as you launched away from populated areas. Still not sure if it would pass as viable today, but back when we were doing tons of atmospheric testing anyway, I doubt anyone cared.


Edit: took a while and got ninja'd sorta, but oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 18, 2012, 01:37:17 pm
Oh, I stand corrected... I did write burning science...
I love being wrong and learning something new!
And this is way more awesome than the thermopile radioisotope shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 18, 2012, 03:37:18 pm
Quote from: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 12:46:44 pm
but given that it wouldn't spend much time in the atmosphere, the benefits were likely to outweigh the risks as long as you launched away from populated areas. Still not sure if it would pass as viable today, but back when we were doing tons of atmospheric testing anyway, I doubt anyone cared.
You wouldn't launch with it, you launch with conventional rockets and use it in space. It wouldn't be used in-atmos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 03:58:17 pm
sadly we still are limited by newton law, so to obtain force you need to propel something out of the other side of the rocket.

with two exception (that I know off, I'd like to be proven wrong as the topic fascinates me):
using solar wind or climbing the solar magnetic field.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 18, 2012, 04:01:13 pm
Solar winds still involve newton's laws. Light itself has a mass, that can push you.

As for the second, I presume it's bollocks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 04:07:05 pm
Quote from: Japa on September 18, 2012, 04:01:13 pm
Solar winds still involve newton's laws. Light itself has a mass, that can push you.

As for the second, I presume it's bollocks.

yes but solar wind mass is a mass you need not to carry with you from ground to space

the second is real, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether but the power is soooooooo low
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: scriver on September 18, 2012, 04:09:19 pm
Spoiler: Recent Kerbal Sociological Research Shows Wings are For Ksissies (click to show/hide)

In other news, public support for the Space Programme recently increased with +40%, +75% "if there will be more explosions" promised citizens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 18, 2012, 04:27:57 pm
Quote from: Japa on September 18, 2012, 04:01:13 pm
Solar winds still involve newton's laws. Light itself has a mass, that can push you.
here are the cries of a million physicians, before being suddenly silenced:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Light has a mass of exactly 0. That's why it goes to lightspeed by the way. Because Einstein.

But no mass does not mean no energy. There is an energy transfer when light hit you, and therefore a force is applied. But it's not exactly newton.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 18, 2012, 04:32:50 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on September 18, 2012, 04:27:57 pm
Light has a mass of exactly 0. That's why it goes to lightspeed by the way. Because Einstein.

there is some bug in current equations when you put mass at 0, because it works for modelling their speed but it fails to explain the photon emission effect - in some way: I've not understood fully the problem and I can't find references now because I can't remember the magic words to put in google.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 18, 2012, 04:39:07 pm
if I remember correctly, light has no mass, but it has momentum. which is why it can push you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vactor on September 18, 2012, 07:11:32 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on September 18, 2012, 04:27:57 pm
Quote from: Japa on September 18, 2012, 04:01:13 pm
Solar winds still involve newton's laws. Light itself has a mass, that can push you.
here are the cries of a million physicians, before being suddenly silenced:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Light has a mass of exactly 0. That's why it goes to lightspeed by the way. Because Einstein.

But no mass does not mean no energy. There is an energy transfer when light hit you, and therefore a force is applied. But it's not exactly newton.

Solar Wind is not light, it is electrons and protons being expelled from the sun.  Solar sails could ride the Solar Wind, or they could ride the electromagnetic radiation from a Star, via radiation pressure, or a combination of both.  You could also point a laser at a solar sail and push it, again using radiation pressure.

-edit this post is in support of kaian, not in argument
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: majikero on September 18, 2012, 07:38:28 pm
Yes, light has mass. That's how the universe was created.

First, there was light. Then the universe collapsed and imploded. What remained is light given form that's why each particle in the universe has a shadow. Also explains why the shadow worlds what to destroy the universe and why magical girls are needed to stop them. 8)

On topic, where can I get this and how much? Also whats the minimum specs, don't want my computer to explode as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
Quote from: alway on September 18, 2012, 03:37:18 pm
Quote from: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 12:46:44 pm
but given that it wouldn't spend much time in the atmosphere, the benefits were likely to outweigh the risks as long as you launched away from populated areas. Still not sure if it would pass as viable today, but back when we were doing tons of atmospheric testing anyway, I doubt anyone cared.
You wouldn't launch with it, you launch with conventional rockets and use it in space. It wouldn't be used in-atmos.

I kind of assumed it'd be used for launch as well, I mean, the plan for Nuclear pulse engines was also to launch them from the ground with a nuclear blast. (Or at least still within the atmosphere.) I suppose you could send it into space in chemical rockets, but geeze... it'd be heavy.

From Project Orion(Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)):
Quote
But the main unsolved problem for a launch from the surface of the Earth was thought to be nuclear fallout. Any explosions within the magnetosphere would carry fissionables back to earth unless the spaceship were launched from a polar region such as a barge in the higher regions of the Arctic, with the initial launching explosion to be a large mass of conventional high explosive only to significantly reduce fallout; subsequent detonations would be in the air and therefore much cleaner. Antarctica is not viable, as this would require enormous legal changes as the continent is presently an international wildlife preserve.
Freeman Dyson, group leader on the project, estimated back in the 1960s that with conventional nuclear weapons (a large fraction of yield from fission), each launch would cause statistically on average between 0.1 and 1 fatal cancers from the fallout.

It just seemed they weren't as concerned about the side effects of radiation back then, as long as it wasn't radiation from weapons.

I was also under the impression that light was more of a wave than a particle and thus might appear to have mass without actually having any. Also I learn my theoretical physics from the internet, so don't mind me.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 18, 2012, 10:35:11 pm
Keep in mind what the magnetosphere is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere
It's outside of the atmosphere.

But yeah, 1 to .1 is a pretty tiny number. For example:
Quote
The researchers calculated for every 100 million passengers who fly seven one-way flights a year, six of them could get cancer as a result of the radiation exposure from the full-body scans.

But yeah; you wouldn't use them in atmosphere for a number of reasons, radiation only being one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:25:59 am
Quote from: majikero on September 18, 2012, 07:38:28 pm
On topic, where can I get this and how much? Also whats the minimum specs, don't want my computer to explode as well.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/kspstore/

18$

you'll need a decent graphic card (I had this playable with mixed result on a hd4000, a gefroce9400; with maximized setting on a geforce 545 and a geforce gt650 but I don't use that because of heat)

and a fast processor. a 2.5ghz allow you to control medium sized rockets. my core i7 has some issues in running larger ships, but is a mobile cpu, I guess that a proper desktop cpu would be better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 19, 2012, 01:31:44 am
My crappy laptop can run it...barely. It's only a dual-core 2.3 Ghz processor and no real graphics card, but it will at least run using medium-sized rockets on minimum settings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 19, 2012, 03:30:34 am
Quote from: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
I was also under the impression that light was more of a wave than a particle and thus might appear to have mass without actually having any. Also I learn my theoretical physics from the internet, so don't mind me.
Light is BOTH a wave and a particle... called wave/participle duality. This is most likely the most annoying part of physics.
And it gets worse, because any quantum sized particle works this way.
You can do experiments to show that both light and electrons are waves(the double slit experiment), but you can also do an experiment that shows that they are both particles.
I bet you many a physicist has gone insane thinking about this.

And no, light does not have momentum.
Momentum is giving by the equation:
P(momenta)=Mass * velocity.
or
E=½mv^2

in both equations we can see that if Mass is zero, then P and E will also be zero.

!! Math !!

I hope this redeems me of my stupid comments about Nuclear-Thermal drives. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RulerOfNothing on September 19, 2012, 03:41:08 am
Quote from: ank on September 19, 2012, 03:30:34 am
Quote from: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
I was also under the impression that light was more of a wave than a particle and thus might appear to have mass without actually having any. Also I learn my theoretical physics from the internet, so don't mind me.
Light is BOTH a wave and a particle... called wave/participle duality. This is most likely the most annoying part of physics.
And it gets worse, because any quantum sized particle works this way.
You can do experiments to show that both light and electrons are waves(the double slit experiment), but you can also do an experiment that shows that they are both particles.
I bet you many a physicist has gone insane thinking about this.

And no, light does not have momentum.
Momentum is giving by the equation:
P(momenta)=Mass * velocity.
or
E=½mv^2

in both equations we can see that if Mass is zero, then P and E will also be zero.

!! Math !!

I hope this redeems me of my stupid comments about Nuclear-Thermal drives. :)
Unfortunately this would mean that photons of light do not have any energy. You are unfortunately still not redeemed :P. The problem here is that you used the Newtonian formulas for kinetic energy and momentum. Quantum theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation#Particle_model_and_quantum_theory) says that photons have a finite and non-zero energy and momentum, equal to h*c/wavelength and h/wavelength respectively (where h is Planck's constant).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 03:47:39 am

Quote from: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
And no, light does not have momentum.
Momentum is giving by the equation:
P(momenta)=Mass * velocity.

yes it does.
strawman: momentless photons would be instantly deflected by gravity, instead of gradually, so gravitational lenses would not work.

momentum: p = h / λ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 19, 2012, 04:01:45 am
I was not talking about energy in a light wave, i was talking about momentum of a light wave.
and the other equation was the kinetic energy.
as you point out you need a third equation to determine the amount of energy in a lightwave.

I was trying to prove with mass that photons does not have momentum, because they do not have mass, which is still very true.

Saying that this means light has no energy is true, if energy is only momentum. however it is not. energy takes many many forms.
You wouldn't say that the chemical energy in a chocolate bar is momentum either?

The first equation relates to the energy of a photon, which is not what we are discussing.
so I went searching for the second equation I found this on wikipedia:
Quote
For both massive and massless objects, relativistic momentum is related to the de Broglie wavelength λ by

    p = h/\lambda\,,

Electromagnetic radiation (including visible light, ultraviolet light, and radio waves) is carried by photons. Even though photons (the particle aspect of light) have no mass, they still carry momentum. This leads to applications such as the solar sail.

I sure love when things come full circle!

I am still sticking to my first point though: Photons have no mass.(which you would agree with)

Also measuring light in Newtons seems weird, but I guess thats science for you  :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 19, 2012, 07:10:08 am
It doesn't really matter anyway. Right now this part is just a very efficient low thrust engine that uses standard fuel. With the word nuclear tacked on to it for some kind of explanation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 19, 2012, 10:04:40 am
Quote from: ank on September 19, 2012, 03:30:34 am
wave/participle duality.

Why, it's both surf AND surfing! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 10:56:26 am
it is intended for space navigation: it has a higher efficiency in void than other engines.


enough with this dual wave particle heresy. everyone knows that kerbal fuel tanks are filled with phlogiston
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 19, 2012, 11:24:04 am
And everything is built of explodium.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 19, 2012, 12:10:37 pm
This makes water landings, no matter how gentle, impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on September 19, 2012, 12:40:08 pm
Quote from: ank on September 19, 2012, 04:01:45 am
I was not talking about energy in a light wave, i was talking about momentum of a light wave.
and the other equation was the kinetic energy.
as you point out you need a third equation to determine the amount of energy in a lightwave.

I was trying to prove with mass that photons does not have momentum, because they do not have mass, which is still very true.

Saying that this means light has no energy is true, if energy is only momentum. however it is not. energy takes many many forms.
You wouldn't say that the chemical energy in a chocolate bar is momentum either?

The first equation relates to the energy of a photon, which is not what we are discussing.
so I went searching for the second equation I found this on wikipedia:
Quote
For both massive and massless objects, relativistic momentum is related to the de Broglie wavelength λ by

    p = h/\lambda\,,

Electromagnetic radiation (including visible light, ultraviolet light, and radio waves) is carried by photons. Even though photons (the particle aspect of light) have no mass, they still carry momentum. This leads to applications such as the solar sail.

I sure love when things come full circle!

I am still sticking to my first point though: Photons have no mass.(which you would agree with)

Also measuring light in Newtons seems weird, but I guess thats science for you  :)
Photons have no rest mass (aka invariant mass). All of your posts used Newtonian equations, which don't really cut it when dealing with things that move at the speed of light (or significant fractions thereof). Try including the Lorentz factor and see if that changes things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 19, 2012, 12:52:14 pm
So who else misses the old parts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 12:59:57 pm
Me! Me!

Also, the silisko pack and the nova punch.

They made for really good looking rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 19, 2012, 01:16:42 pm
This thing with 3-person pods being huge annoys me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:19:12 pm
not the other thing about them being fugly? (hugeness can be cured by 2x power 0.5 fuel consumption on engines :P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 19, 2012, 01:19:58 pm
Well yes, fugly too. <_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:24:12 pm
Spoiler: not mine (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on September 19, 2012, 01:28:53 pm
Damn, that's one sexy rocket.

What pack is it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:29:53 pm
I haven't the slightest idea  :-\

but if you find it out, please share coz I'm interested too
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 19, 2012, 01:42:06 pm
Rocket porn > Physics
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:44:09 pm
Quote from: ank on September 19, 2012, 01:42:06 pm
Rocket porn > Physics

totally.

also, anyone knows if the old lego pack works? total conversions > part packs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 19, 2012, 03:08:20 pm
I'm just going to put this right here: http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/31870253885/ksp-0-17-is-released
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on September 19, 2012, 03:14:33 pm
Quote from: Thendash on September 19, 2012, 03:08:20 pm
I'm just going to put this right here: http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/31870253885/ksp-0-17-is-released
Quote
Several new Planets and Moons, for a total of 14 Celestial Bodies.

I've never even been to Mun :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on September 19, 2012, 03:16:42 pm
Yay!

Commence operation 'Land On A Gas Giant'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 19, 2012, 03:21:46 pm
But first commence operation try to connect to patching server!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 03:22:59 pm
Crap. I just was getting up to speed with my own stuff and now...

Damn.

edit1
Also, patcher issues for macs?  ???


edit2
download randomly stop due server load. why they have their own server instead of relying on a cdn? amazon is quite cheap these days.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 19, 2012, 03:57:11 pm
Yeah patcher keeps failing for me, and everytime I download from the store it ends up corrupted. Maybe I'll have to wait until later tonight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on September 19, 2012, 04:17:23 pm
Man, I can barely make it to Minmus... let alone to another planet.

Or hell, I can't even make it to the patch server. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 19, 2012, 04:18:15 pm
I need to buy this now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 19, 2012, 04:25:19 pm
This does seem to happen every time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 04:29:25 pm
seriously WTF?

the osx patcher cointains a folder with an exe, a command which is really a shell script that doesn't work and a binary blob.


c'mon, not even a readme?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 19, 2012, 04:55:33 pm
I've connected to the patch server :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 19, 2012, 05:20:21 pm
Took me dozens of tries, but I finally got the patcher to complete a download. It's just been acting all kinds of messed up but hopefully this time it's actually "applying the patch" like it says it is.

Edit: Apparently worked!

EditEdit:Yay! Orbit on first try with a very happy Jeb.



Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ike and Gilly in the background. Two new places to go!. Apparently they're moons of Duna and Eve. Mars and Venus semi-analogues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 19, 2012, 08:45:31 pm
After about 2500 days in orbit around the sun, my craft landed on Eve. It's very favorable to go to; it has an extremely thick atmos which slowed me from ~4km/s to around 80m/s, so landing requires minimal thrust. It seems to have oceans of some sort; one of which I splashed down in. They are pretty much transparent and almost impossible to see aside from the specular reflection of sunlight, so be sure to look out for that, or you, like me, may end up unintentionally splashing down instead of landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 19, 2012, 09:05:09 pm
Quote from: alway on September 19, 2012, 08:45:31 pm
After about 2500 days in orbit around the sun, my craft landed on Eve. It's very favorable to go to; it has an extremely thick atmos which slowed me from ~4km/s to around 80m/s, so landing requires minimal thrust.

Favorable to go to if you're not planning to return, perhaps. That same atmosphere that helps you on the way down is going to be a bitch to get out of.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 19, 2012, 09:23:33 pm
Seems like it would be ideal for spaceplanes. (which got improved in 0.17)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 19, 2012, 10:01:45 pm
I JUST got a craft into orbit which had a spare bit of thrust...  Trying to decide if 1.7 Large 3 meter tanks is enough to get me somewhere and if the one I've got stuck on the landing portion will get me back from anywhere other than the Mun or Minmus.

Yeah... I've been there a dozen times, but I don't think this will get me anywhere and back safely... Mun is a good semi-safe trial run.

After that, back to the drawing board and perhaps back to the single person capsule rather than forcing myself to get 3 Kerbs somewhere all at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 19, 2012, 10:08:20 pm
If you're trying to see if you can land on another planet and get back to kerbin, try launching your entire ship into orbit, drop the first interplanetary stage (using the NERVA engines you'll have a hard time not bringing enough fuel), and land on kerbin. Then take off and do it again. If you can pull that off, your ship is probably worthy of making a manned mission both ways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 19, 2012, 10:29:24 pm
So, I just came out of 100000x time compression and snap, my craft broke apart.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In case you cant see it, theres my command pod, parachute, and radial decoupler.
The time compression still has some bugs it seems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 19, 2012, 10:40:36 pm
Didn't pack a specific interplanetary stage, it was just my final launch stage I'd over built a bit giving me some extra fuel, turned out to be just about perfect to get to the Mun. That stage got me there, circularized my orbit, and got me nearly stopped over my landing point. Only had about 200 m/s of velocity left to kill with the landing engine leaving me well over 2/3 of a tank to get back with once all was said and done. Now I've got Jeb, Bill and Bob perched at a landing point overlooking a deep valley. (Okay, fine, a few hops, from overlooking.) I'll leave them there for a bit, let them enjoy it and give other, more expendable kerbs a try for elsewhere.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 19, 2012, 10:41:29 pm
Yeah, my Eve mission did that just as I dropped out of warp in the Eve-intercept maneuver. Luckily it was just the ion drive that snapped off, and my landing thrusters de-orbited me since I had a velocity very close to that of Eve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 19, 2012, 10:44:15 pm
Trying to buy game and damn is the site slow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on September 19, 2012, 10:54:09 pm
Wait to you try to download it. Their server really can't handle patch days very well at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 19, 2012, 10:55:23 pm
Quote from: alway on September 19, 2012, 10:41:29 pm
Yeah, my Eve mission did that just as I dropped out of warp in the Eve-intercept maneuver. Luckily it was just the ion drive that snapped off, and my landing thrusters de-orbited me since I had a velocity very close to that of Eve.
Ion drive? Do you mean the nuclear one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on September 19, 2012, 11:10:37 pm
Duna is hard to get to. I have enough fuel and easily get to the right orbit, but I keep missing the rendez vous point :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 19, 2012, 11:46:03 pm
Game won't even launch the autopatcher for me :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 19, 2012, 11:48:36 pm
I had to actually download the patcher from the KSP store. My copy of .16 didn't come with a patcher. Not sure if that's true for everyone or just some.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 19, 2012, 11:51:30 pm
yea, after 5 minutes i got to the front page of KSP!
Now i just need to go like 5 pages deeper.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 19, 2012, 11:53:27 pm
I'm just trying to buy it D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 19, 2012, 11:53:38 pm
Quote from: ank on September 19, 2012, 11:51:30 pm
yea, after 5 minutes i got to the front page of KSP!
Now i just need to go like 5 pages deeper.
I know, logging into the site was even more of a pain  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 12:10:18 am
Plz screenshot I'm without for ten hours  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on September 20, 2012, 12:40:39 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2012, 01:24:12 pm
Spoiler: not mine (click to show/hide)
Those black tanks aren't the right colour, but apart from that, damn that's one sexy rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 20, 2012, 01:07:18 am
anyways,
Spoiler: mach2 (click to show/hide)
top speed as of posting is 750m/s
Edit: reached 800m/s before it ran out of fuel a bit later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 20, 2012, 01:21:29 am
There were a few mishaps but congratulations to Rodfry Kerman. My first Kerbonaut to land on another planet. Also notably, the first Kerbonaut to permanently settle Duna... at least for the time being. It ended up being a one way trip. For one, I didn't plan enough fuel to get back anyway, but what I did have was cut short due to an engine falling off my transit stage and having to use the lander and return engines for the last bit of the Duna rendezvous. 450+ days in that capsule trying to meet up with Duna, I'm sure he's glad to stretch his legs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I got very lucky in the initial orbit situation. If I'd been really good I'd have been able to do it in 60 days. There was almost no excuse for me to not have it done in 180, but it ended up being 450. I also intended to have a ladder that stretched all the way to the ground, but that was another casualty of the engine falling off. Luckily, Duna's gravity is JUST light enough that with a jump to launch him up, he can jetpack up to the top if need be and certainly up to the ladder.

As it is, I have about a tank and a half total of fuel left. That MIGHT be enough to get me into orbit, but certainly not enough to get me back home... Oh well. Maybe I"ll plan a rescue mission some day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 20, 2012, 01:25:09 am
Oooo, the new version is out? I'll have to try downloading it next week, when we have a computer that can actually run it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 01:51:11 am
I cannot fathom why the heck they host the forums on the same server as the downloads (seemingly), and why they haven't moved downloads to something like the amazon cloud.

edit: finally got through to the store to get the patcher, took about half an hour. Now its downloading nicely at 200kbs, which isn't bad at all. So i dunno.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 20, 2012, 02:09:55 am
Quote from: Roboboy33 on September 19, 2012, 10:29:24 pm
So, I just came out of 100000x time compression and snap, my craft broke apart.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In case you cant see it, theres my command pod, parachute, and radial decoupler.
The time compression still has some bugs it seems.

Space Cuthulhu. He ate the Space Kracken, and now he's the boss.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 02:35:10 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 01:51:11 am
I cannot fathom why the heck they host the forums on the same server as the downloads (seemingly), and why they haven't moved downloads to something like the amazon cloud.


or greeenlight  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 02:57:25 am
From my experience of of third parties using steam (paradox), if it was on greenlight we'd get the update Monday, not today, at earliest :p

oh, and the patcher stopped the download early and just spend an hour or so trying to install. trying to start it again, looks like that will take a few goes also.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 03:13:18 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 02:57:25 am
From my experience of of third parties using steam (paradox), if it was on greenlight we'd get the update Monday, not today, at earliest :p

oh, and the patcher stopped the download early and just spend an hour or so trying to install. trying to start it again, looks like that will take a few goes also.

I still can't download the update. I tried with the patcher so much times yesterday only to find that the bugger, at 89mb, contains only the program and requires another 150mb download.

Now I've to get the full one, but the site is still wonky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 03:51:27 am
I'm considering giving up and trying again this time tommorow. Game isn't going to be any less awesome in a days time, except for people posting about their trips to other planets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 03:53:20 am
I can't avoid spoilers, so I carve to be the 'first' on the different planets and moons
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Svampapa on September 20, 2012, 05:23:23 am
1. Yay! Dowload successful!
2. Hey! What happened to Bill, Bob and Jeb? Who are these newfag clowns in my first rocket? :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on September 20, 2012, 05:37:04 am
Quote from: Svampapa on September 20, 2012, 05:23:23 am
1. Yay! Dowload successful!
2. Hey! What happened to Bill, Bob and Jeb? Who are these newfag clowns in my first rocket? :(
They disappeared like a gazillion updates ago >.>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on September 20, 2012, 05:52:14 am
But they are still our beloved KSP mascots.
Concider them retired, or training the new recruits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 20, 2012, 05:54:42 am
You do actually occasionally see them on your flights, and they're shown with differently colored suits. I don't know if they come back when they die, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Svampapa on September 20, 2012, 06:06:24 am
Weird, I played a lot of .16 and they were always the three first Kerbals on a fresh persistence file.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 06:10:31 am
they ARE te first three kerbals. you must have killed them without noticing.
edit: by the way, I am having great troubles achieving orbit. maybe I am overengineering it....
(http://i.imgur.com/2iPsP.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 20, 2012, 06:23:40 am
Speaking of overengineering, my rocket had wobble issues.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 06:24:45 am
if it solves wobble issues, I may copy it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: head on September 20, 2012, 06:38:21 am
I went over my friendly piratey bay and got my update since the patcher didnt work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 20, 2012, 07:04:16 am
Quote from: andrea on September 20, 2012, 06:10:31 am
they ARE te first three kerbals. you must have killed them without noticing.
edit: by the way, I am having great troubles achieving orbit. maybe I am overengineering it....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Too much engine to fuel tank ratio, consider merging some of those stages under a single set of engines (eg, make stage 1 and 2 just stage 1 by deleting the engines)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 07:18:48 am
I tried adding more tanks to stage 1, it goes higher.

and also explodes, but I am working on it.
sadly, during last flight a solid booster wasn't staged correctly and it activated only after decoupling destrying my last stage engine.
but I believe it can now reach orbit. if it doesn't, I'll need a way to add more engines, because what I have now barely lifts the rocket. I already have a couple of ideas..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 08:02:42 am
Quote from: head on September 20, 2012, 06:38:21 am
I went over my friendly piratey bay and got my update since the patcher didnt work.

That's... perhaps not the kind of thing you should be broadcasting :P

Still waiting for the site to stabilise, but I've got lots of stuff to play with on my day off today until then. I just discovered Darwinbots, I'm doing well with my programming and if it's really bad, Torchlight II unlocks at 6pm UTC xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 08:07:21 am
height is ok, but I still lack enough power to make an orbit. although I am close.

what should I do? add more boosters, or redesign the payload so that it is more compact?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on September 20, 2012, 08:31:53 am
There seems to be issues with trying to conduct interplanetary travel... like coming out of time compression and your ship just breaking into pieces for no reason. Make sure you do a lot of quick-saving if you plan to do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2012, 09:06:01 am
Okay, so I was away from KSP for some time, and decided to make some small steps first to regain my bearings in the new version.

Made a spaceplane. (Well, more plane than space) Flew out with it. Decided to see if the pilot could hold onto the railing in flight. And, er...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The plane eventually ran out of fuel, and the deceleration dislodged the pilot before I could do anything, so he did fall in the end. But still. Hell of a ride.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 09:42:55 am
muhahaha! by reducing the payload, the gargantua class heavy lifter managed to bring 3 people into space!

then I discover that the new capsule lacked fuel lines to the NERVA engines, so I had to use the lander to propel the ship to the satellite...

I even landed, but the thing is too tall, fell sideways ( after a somersault) and it got disassembled.
however, I discovered I was withing view of the mun arch! attempts to explore it were met with failure because it is FAR! attempts to use jetpacks were met with rock induced death :/

oh, well. time to send a rescue expedition!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 20, 2012, 09:56:07 am
do air intakes actually work to help your spaceplanes engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:07:28 am
Is the site still messed up, or is it my end?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on September 20, 2012, 10:11:08 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:07:28 am
Is the site still messed up, or is it my end?

Well I managed to get through in the end.
(After failing at least a dozen times.)


edit: And the file didn't download properly... -_-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:23:53 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on September 20, 2012, 10:11:08 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:07:28 am
Is the site still messed up, or is it my end?

Well I managed to get through in the end.
(After failing at least a dozen times.)


edit: And the file didn't download properly... -_-

Yeah, that's the problem I've been having all day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 20, 2012, 10:30:06 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 08:02:42 am
Quote from: head on September 20, 2012, 06:38:21 am
I went over my friendly piratey bay and got my update since the patcher didnt work.

That's... perhaps not the kind of thing you should be broadcasting :P
Why not? He clearly owns the game, but was unable to update because the official patcher didn't work. The forum rules say you cannot post copyrighted material, or links to said material... not that you can't mention that you went to a file sharing website to get an update for a game you own.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on September 20, 2012, 10:32:38 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:23:53 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on September 20, 2012, 10:11:08 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:07:28 am
Is the site still messed up, or is it my end?

Well I managed to get through in the end.
(After failing at least a dozen times.)


edit: And the file didn't download properly... -_-

Yeah, that's the problem I've been having all day.


So the file won't be downloaded today it seems..
Always halfway (or a quarterway) before it gets cut off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 10:45:43 am
Lame, this was going to keep me occupied until TL2 unlocks, now I need something to keep me occupied until this is fixed :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 20, 2012, 10:47:48 am
Hey, it's only another hour.

I've been playing black mesa till then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 20, 2012, 11:13:28 am
I'm looking forward to a ship made up entirely of nuke rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on September 20, 2012, 11:15:39 am
I'm finally downloading now. Interplanetary exploration go!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 20, 2012, 11:27:49 am
I've been having problems with my ships just ripping themselves apart,
and i get really bad lag. It seems they turned up the harshness of the physics.
Also I noticed the hydraulic decoupler seems to bug out sometimes, so i've stopped using them.

Maybe i'm just building way too big... i am using about 600 parts.

And it may just be pride, but I am trying to explore other planets with a 3 size capsule, might be a bit ambitious.

What kind of thrust do you need to get back from the other planets? I've brought 7 big engines and 14 big fuel tanks... too much?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 20, 2012, 11:36:38 am
The Space Kracken was eaten by Space Cthulhu, who disintigrates ships whenever they deaccellerate from 100,000x real time too fast.

As for the ship designs, I don't know the lift requirements needed for most of the planets, but try starting with a one-way trip. Kerbin is really crowded, so the astronauts actually appreciate being stranded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 20, 2012, 11:43:54 am
That actually seems somewhat appropriate, from what I can tell. Most of the other planets have significantly lower gravity and atmosphere than Kerbin does, so it's usually easier to get off, (Eve, excepted) But interplanetary travel has been very trial and error for me, so I've needed the extra fuel for maneuvering duties... granted, I'm not using any plugins yet and once I learn better how to rendezvous between two orbiting bodies, I can probably keep my fuel usage down a bit more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 20, 2012, 11:44:36 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on September 20, 2012, 11:36:38 am
The Space Kracken was eaten by Space Cthulhu, who disintigrates ships whenever they deaccellerate from 100,000x real time too fast.

As for the ship designs, I don't know the lift requirements needed for most of the planets, but try starting with a one-way trip. Kerbin is really crowded, so the astronauts actually appreciate being stranded.

Yes, all that grass and trees... and those two launch towers are closing in on the little green guys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on September 20, 2012, 11:50:52 am
After about 5 attempts I finally managed to get a ship to orbit Kerbin. Unfortunately, the reentry parachute failed and Jeb crashed into the surface at 130 m/s, which didn't end well for him.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 12:45:08 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 20, 2012, 12:32:01 pm
They really need to upgrade their servers.

I really wanted to be one of the first to land on another planet, but the inability to get to the DL page simply stops me.

they can just put up a freaking torrent with passworded tracker!! instant solution, zero costs.

plz someone with the forum access post a suggestion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 20, 2012, 01:00:15 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 20, 2012, 12:32:01 pm
They really need to upgrade their servers.

I really wanted to be one of the first to land on another planet, but the inability to get to the DL page simply stops me.

It took me a few tries to get a non aborted download. The updater was worthless as I apparently hadn't updated since .15.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 20, 2012, 01:08:30 pm
Does anyone else get serious lag when looking towards the horizon while still on Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 20, 2012, 01:19:33 pm
Unholy lightbulbs the site is slower than trying to bogosort the internet in alphabetic order.

¡ɯoʇʇoq ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ ǝʇıs ǝɥʇ oʇuı ʇǝƃ oʇ ʎɹʇ I ɟı ǝqʎɐW
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 01:32:13 pm
Spoiler: FUUUUUUUUUUUUU (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 20, 2012, 01:35:22 pm
shift+click
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 20, 2012, 02:09:33 pm
The servers really don't like it when you hit them twice at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 02:47:13 pm
the rescue expedition managed to arrive to the mun and successfully land just 3 km away from the stranded crew member.
so, all is well?

not quite.
first of all, I forgot to bring an empty seat, so the poor man has to stay on the moon, and this time far from his capsule.
second, I probably don't have enough fuel to get back, although if I manage to achieve orbit, I might use RCS...

wish me good luck.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 20, 2012, 02:53:40 pm
Make him grab onto a ladder for the entire ride.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 20, 2012, 02:56:32 pm
@andrea: Try putting your 1st stage around your 2nd stage, then use fuel lines to feed the 1st stage tanks into the 2nd stage tanks, then set it up so that all the 1st and 2nd stage engines fire at the start. This has the benefit of giving you more thrust at the start when your rocket is fully loaded with fuel and is super heavy, then once the outer tanks are empty you separate them and you didn't have to carry a bunch of extra fuel into space. Also, why do you have solid rocket boosters at the top? If you put them anywhere you should fire them with the 1st stage because rocket engines work better the faster they are going so the solid boosters could help you out at the start.

@download problem people: I kept getting corrupted files as well, I eventually used a download manager and that seemed to do the trick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 02:58:18 pm
Quote from: Thendash on September 20, 2012, 02:56:32 pm

@download problem people: I kept getting corrupted files as well, I eventually used a download manager and that seemed to do the trick.

which one? there are a lot. please suggest, I'm desperate


edit: how does auth works? curl refuses to download.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2012, 03:09:35 pm
I am not quite sure about what you mean when you speak about first and second stages... I think you mean to use them in parallel instead of one on top of the  other?
if so, I have bad experiences with wide rockets, and even at a loss of efficency , I'll pass.

about boosters, I have to agree. they are there because that stage used to be first stage. it.. kind of grew from there.
I don't think I'll scrap those boosters, but I'll add more to the first 2 stages. I think I can safely get 4 each. not sure however, since it already wobbles way too much.

( thanks for the advice!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 20, 2012, 03:19:17 pm
Atleast you can get to the download part :p I am still trying to throw money at them.

Played the demo a ton way back when but now it seems the game has evolved to the point I feel comfortable paying for it. If only they would let me check out my shopping cart ^^

EDIT: Seems applying glue to the money before throwing it at them made it stick. Now to try and download.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Svampapa on September 20, 2012, 04:20:10 pm
Oh god. Whatever you do, do not EVA a Kerbal into the atmosphere of Jool. The horror of...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 20, 2012, 04:40:51 pm
Found a bug, don't use your parachute then go to 4x physical time acceleration. When you finally slow down enough that the chute opens, it'll be torn off even if it wouldn't have at 1x acceleration. That being said, it doesn't seem to do it everytime.

Also, whoever said they were getting lag when they looked at the horizon, I get that too. I think it's probably those new tree models.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 04:56:10 pm
I did it!

Finished, thanks to down them all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 20, 2012, 05:03:22 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 20, 2012, 04:57:57 pm
wait, what?

Firefox plugin. It lets you pause/resume download, which is easy if a download only sits at one location online.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 05:16:26 pm
mission:mun slingshot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

successful!

this was so good that allowed an almost direct insertion into the next planet:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

notice the +300km/s speed increase. it is not the best possible, but fairly good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 20, 2012, 05:18:09 pm
I just cant get an ecounter with any of the planets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 20, 2012, 05:34:21 pm
Quote from: Svampapa on September 20, 2012, 04:20:10 pm
Oh god. Whatever you do, do not EVA a Kerbal into the atmosphere of Jool. The horror of...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In fact, do not attempt to land on Jool either. It doesn't work. It is very similar to EVAing there. The horrors. D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 05:37:33 pm
the wing model is brutally bugged. try to place angled control surface and roll, the craft will start jittering around helplessly:

Spoiler: like this (click to show/hide)



craft:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vdg5so7alxzk1ao/The%20Fail.craft


edit:

now testing the aerofix plugin...
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/20451-PLUGIN-0-17-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-2-Aerodynamics-Fixes


edit/2

nothing to do, if you roll with angled surfaces, you start rolling and then bounce back counterrotating for some random reason
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 20, 2012, 07:30:00 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 20, 2012, 05:16:26 pm
notice the +300km/s speed increase. it is not the best possible, but fairly good.

That's 300m/s not km/s, 300km/s would be a lot.
I used down them all as well. I haven't found a good download manager plugin for chrome yet though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on September 20, 2012, 08:27:29 pm
If Jool is a gas planet like you seem to be implying, your poor Kerbal would be crushed to death pretty quickly if he fell very deep into it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 20, 2012, 09:31:58 pm
Quote from: Rez on September 20, 2012, 08:27:29 pm
If Jool is a gas planet like you seem to be implying, your poor Kerbal would be crushed to death pretty quickly if he fell very deep into it.

It is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 20, 2012, 09:52:59 pm
I found that it is best to click through the warp-arrows at the top left of the screen (if at max, click the next left one, wait until you hit that speed, then the next one and so on). This has avoided issues for me where the ship tears itself apart for no apparent reason in space when going fro 100000x to 1x speed. Also do not use any more than 1x warp when taking off of a planet, It has not caused any of my takeoff's to fail so far, but it does tend to makey my rockets bounce and bend an awful lot.

Been trying to get to Eve, gave up on the mars-ish planet (name escapes my memory, too many attempts result in my ship breaking apart for no apparent reason). The slanted orbit of Eve is making it hard. So far I have just tried to intersect part of my orbit with Eve's, and then just fast forward for years hoping that eventually they will be close enough to get caught in Eve's orbit. No luck so far. (Im also hoping that either the gravity is quite low (atomic rockets to slow down), or the atmosphere is reasonably dense (one-way trip with parachutes), or else it won't turn out too well).

Also, what are the physics like out at Jool? From what I have read, the further from the sun you are, the wackier the physics become.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 20, 2012, 10:26:32 pm
I made it to Duna but didn't have enough fuel to make it back. :( Guess I'll have to send a rescue mission once I have a better design.
@alexandertnt: Here try this: http://ksp.olex.biz/
There's also a link at the bottom of that to a guide on the ksp forums that explains all the math behind it if you want to do it the hard way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on September 20, 2012, 11:02:35 pm
Made it to Mun after numerous failed attempts to break orbit and one mission that just missed the orbit transfer. It was a crash landing since I don't know how to read the altimeter properly, but luckily the command pod survived. There wasn't going to be enough fuel for a return mission anyway.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 21, 2012, 01:22:01 am
Quote from: Putnam on September 20, 2012, 09:31:58 pm
Quote from: Rez on September 20, 2012, 08:27:29 pm
If Jool is a gas planet like you seem to be implying, your poor Kerbal would be crushed to death pretty quickly if he fell very deep into it.

It is.
It's more that it has no surface and at -100m, terrible, terrible things happen. Like, imagine the physics bugs. Now imagine them yanking around anything that gets to the -100m threshhold. It rips craft apart, and EVA'd kerbins suffer a terrible fate as their limbs are twisted and snapped around at odd angles and such by said physics jankiness.

Quote from: alexandertnt on September 20, 2012, 09:52:59 pm
Also, what are the physics like out at Jool? From what I have read, the further from the sun you are, the wackier the physics become.

I didn't have a problem myself; I highly suspect the bugginess is due to a combination of the map and the time compression. Try setting time compression to 1:1, wait for the transition to that speed to complete, then coming out of the map screen. Coming in/out of the map screen seems to do some odd things related to perspective or somesuch, which combined with a variable time compression might result in the space krakens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on September 21, 2012, 03:54:28 am
Heh, I missed Mun with my transfer burn, but by sheer coincidence it put me on a trajectory for Minimus. I'd like to say that I performed a land and retrieve on Minimus before I did on on Mun, but I botched the landing again. Just 4m/s of horizontal velocity will really do a number on your craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 21, 2012, 05:28:28 am
I was working on my rescue craft, which still needs work, but it made it to the Mun okay, just barely... The base is pretty wide, but the thing is pretty darn top heavy. It took me 3 landing attempts and I may have blown too much fuel in the end, but the final attempt was even really iffy. The whole craft was rocking back and forth  precariously before finally settling down.

I budgeted 5 small fuel tanks for my 1 NERVA engine outbound transit stage, but I used up almost 4 of the tanks just getting to Munar orbit. 5 MIGHT have been enough, but it's cutting it pretty close by my estimation, so I'll probably need to throw some extra thrust on there somewhere. My launch stage was also slightly underpowered. I ended up using about 4 tanks worth of my descent, landing and relaunch stage. (Out of a total of 12. Yeah, maybe a bit overkill, but I want it to be able to climb back out of most atmospheres.) I feel the return transit stage SHOULD be okay, but I've yet to test it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 21, 2012, 06:33:27 am
after getting a rocket able to go to the mun ( a modified version of the gargantua class showed earlier), I finally decide to send a one way mission to another planet!

well, turns out I should have checked orbits before launch... my kerbonauts will have to wait half a year :P
does Duna and/or Eve have an atmosphere? I have to choose between them, and being able to use parachutes is a factor.
if eve is like our venus, parachutes should work well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 21, 2012, 07:49:03 am
Duna has a very thin atmosphere, much like Mars. The bar didn't start raising until about 30,000 meters and the drag didn't really slow me down to less than, I believe 400 m/s or so without parachutes. It definitely helped, but I wouldn't recommend relying on parachutes alone, you're going to need engines on a Duna lander.

One way trip, I'd probably suggest Eve. It should have plenty of atmosphere to do the job.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 21, 2012, 08:36:27 am
good, good. meanwhile, I almost rescued the stranded kerbonaut on the mun. sadly, I once again forgot to bring an empty seat, and most likely I owuldn't have enough fuel anyway...

but I left bob with him, so at least he isn't alone anymore :D

after 6 days on the mun and 2 resupply missions ( well, 3, but on the second one I discovered that 2 NERVA engines aren't enough to slow down at the orbit I usually use) I think I can consider it a colony.

probably if I split the lander and the interplanetary stage again, but I'll need to wait for the gargantua-heavy launcher.

below, a picture of gargantua-medium. the upper part with 4 NERVA engines is what I use to land on the moon. needless to say, I have to be VERY careful about horizontal velocity, since it is so tall.
I wonder how to turn that into an heavy version. probably replace some solid boosters with liquid engines, then add more boosters.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 21, 2012, 09:25:05 am
I decided to go small, and try to get to Eve with a simple lander. It was pretty hard since i started out in a 90 degree orbit.
But finally got there, and landed nicely with the help of 12 parachutes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First landing on another planet!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 21, 2012, 09:31:42 am
now do it with a 3 men capsule!

with just one kerbonaut it is too easy :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 21, 2012, 09:34:31 am
I think the kerbal space program just fired me for cruel and unusual designs. I made a plane design and decided that what that plane needed was more solid fuel rocket boosters to give it that extra pep. The plane proceeded to blow up on the landing strip and the entire game crashed :p

Note to self: add wheels to the plane so it doesn't have to skid on it's belly to take off. Minor details are sometimes the most important. Oh and add a couple more boosters!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on September 21, 2012, 09:59:08 am
How would I go about attempting a rescue mission? Should I just have the extra guys hop out at the launch pad?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 21, 2012, 10:15:36 am
yes,  as far as I know that is the only way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 21, 2012, 11:09:35 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 21, 2012, 10:49:44 am
site's still refusing to work properly for me.

looks like I won't get the update today.
Same, trying to get the patcher now. I've got this far, so I ain't giving up.

EDIT: BOOM. Finally managed to D/L the patcher, now I'm trying to open it... Alright, I might get there yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 21, 2012, 11:19:40 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 21, 2012, 11:18:42 am
I think someone need to host a DL for the patcher on another site...
Well, the patcher is having trouble connecting to its server, so I think they just generally need more server powah and quantity.

EDIT: And we're off. Only took about 2 tries on each page, so it could've been worse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 21, 2012, 11:40:43 am
I've given up on the patcher. It kept crashing when applying the patch and windows would brutally shut it down, so I'm just doing it manually. It's gonna take 20 minutes, but I'm sure it's worth it.

EDIT: Goddamn, download stopped early. "Unexpected end of archive". Dammit. TRY AGAIN.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 21, 2012, 12:14:44 pm
Got into space, thinking I was making good progress towards the moon I activated the time speeding uping thingy only to start falling back towards Kerbal. My little guy landed safely and I EVA'd making him stand there looking longingly at the moon.

I decided to take a screenshot and play around a bit with it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on September 21, 2012, 12:41:46 pm
Squad really needs to upgrade their servers to cope with the demand they get. It's nearly impossible to get a DL within a week of release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 21, 2012, 12:46:34 pm
Quote from: Aptus on September 21, 2012, 12:14:44 pm
Got into space, thinking I was making good progress towards the moon I activated the time speeding uping thingy only to start falling back towards Kerbal. My little guy landed safely and I EVA'd making him stand there looking longingly at the moon.

I decided to take a screenshot and play around a bit with it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Press M to see the Map screen, with your projected orbit displayed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 21, 2012, 01:25:41 pm
Hey guys, tip from the IRC (irc.esper.net #kspofficial) Go to your settings.cfg and change CONIC_PATCH_LIMIT to 3 or more to get an easier indication when you're going to enter a SoI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 21, 2012, 02:08:58 pm
@PTTG going to the moon is a bit more complicated than pointing your rocket at it.

I'd surgest first going into orbit, from there you then point at the moon right when it comes over the horizon, and burn until intercept.
Thats the good old tip for reaching the mun without a calculator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 21, 2012, 02:14:47 pm
I almost made it, managed to overshoot the mun though and now my poor kerbanaut is stuck in a weird orbit around the sun causing him to almost crash into eve every so often.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 21, 2012, 02:24:38 pm
I finally D/L'ed the new version, and have managed to fail to even get in to orbit. I'm probably being too ambitious... Also, what is the use of the new nuclear rocket wotsits? Just another medium powered engine?
I guess I'll go to FTL and come back wehn I've got more idea. ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on September 21, 2012, 02:29:01 pm
I can't get it to download... RAAAAEG i have a server so If I could download it id happily host a copy of ksp there if I get authorization from squad
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 21, 2012, 02:54:06 pm
@Spaghetti: The nuclear engines are really good on fuel but not very powerful(especially in atmosphere) so they're best used to get from an orbit on one planet to another planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 21, 2012, 02:54:30 pm
Quote from: bertix on September 21, 2012, 02:29:01 pm
I can't get it to download... RAAAAEG i have a server so If I could download it id happily host a copy of ksp there if I get authorization from squad

You won't, I can tell you that right now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Svampapa on September 21, 2012, 05:14:44 pm
They are looking into separating homepage/forums and the download server. (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/31940501638/server-troubles-again-please-bear-with-us)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on September 21, 2012, 05:19:49 pm
They want us to bear with them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 21, 2012, 05:30:38 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on September 21, 2012, 05:19:49 pm
They want us to bear with them?
...yes? why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 21, 2012, 05:47:57 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on September 21, 2012, 05:19:49 pm
They want us to bear with them?

Well you can try to wolf or fox with them, but I'm guessing bearing would be a lot easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 21, 2012, 06:55:13 pm
That's because rockets work better the faster they're going. Get up to speed using solid boosters, then use liquid engine in parallel feeding fuel into the next rocket in line and detaching empty ones as you go. Takes a little messing around with staging but is the most efficient way to do things because then you end up with a smaller rocket full of fuel in orbit versus a larger rocket partially empty in orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 21, 2012, 07:08:15 pm
The liquid fuel rockets work more efficiently the closer to a vacuum their environment is.

I seem to have a lot of success using vertical jet engines (many of them) to carry my rocket up as high as they will go, then using rockets.

Also, once you run out of fuel, you can just look at the apoapsis of your trajectory to see the maximum height your craft will reach. Saves some testing time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 21, 2012, 07:47:39 pm
I have no idea why some people have such difficulty getting into orbit.

Spoiler: One of my normal spaceship designs (ugly) and secret to getting into orbit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 21, 2012, 11:57:27 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on September 21, 2012, 06:34:17 pm
Well, after doing some rather simple tests, I have demonstrated that sometimes, running two stages parallel to each other during rocket flight is a bad idea.

Test 1:

Flying this standard rocket:
(http://i.imgur.com/a2Trz.png)

Test 1- Using the standard rocket, flew to a maximum of 21555 +/- 10m from the surface of Kerbin until velocity turned negative (fuel ran out almost a minute before). To be used as a benchmark.

Test 2-4:

Flying this standard rocket:
(http://i.imgur.com/FNFOs.png)

Test 2- Using only liquid engine (leaving solid-fuel engines attached, but without igniting them) flew to a maximum of 8255 +/- 10m from the surface of Kerbin until velocity turned negative.
Test 3- Using both liquid engine and solid fuel thrusters simultaneously, flew to a maximum of 23660 +/- 10m from the surface of Kerbin until velocity turned negative.
Test 40 Using both liquid engine and solid fuel thrusters concurrently (using thrusters first, then after thrusters ran out of fuel, detached thrusters and activated liquid engine simultaneously), flew to a maximum of 58700 +/- 10m from the surface of Kerbin until velocity turned negative.

Conclusion: Based on these results, one can tell that, plain and simply, running two flight stages simultaneously does not go well every time- in fact, it can severely hinder your maximum height reached. However, this has yet to be tested for larger rockets, where some stages acting alone may not be able propel the remainder of the rocket to significant heights before running out of fuel. Still worth taking into consideration for any future rocket designs.
Firstly, "concurrently" and "simultaneously" are the same thing. The word you wanted is "consecutively". :)

And next, there is the simple matter of the fact that the energy required to accelerate a rocket in atmosphere increases geometrically as its speed increases. With three boosters and a liquid engine, you are providing way too much thrust, attempting to accelerate the rocket too fast in the thick part of the atmosphere, and losing a lot of energy to drag. This is on top of the mentioned increase of rocket effectiveness with altitude.

In other news, I made it to Duna with a fairly straightforward rocket.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(first two screens actually from a different revision of the rocket)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 12:41:54 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 21, 2012, 11:57:27 pm
(first two screens actually from a different revision of the rocket)
That apparently failed horribly as Bob is not present in the other screens. :( But good job on getting there! But can you get back? That's the part I'm stuck at, but I think I've developed a decent enough design that if I'm a good enough pilot should have enough fuel to make it back home. I'll post screens if it works out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 12:52:26 am
Quote from: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 12:41:54 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 21, 2012, 11:57:27 pm
(first two screens actually from a different revision of the rocket)
That apparently failed horribly as Bob is not present in the other screens. :( But good job on getting there! But can you get back? That's the part I'm stuck at, but I think I've developed a decent enough design that if I'm a good enough pilot should have enough fuel to make it back home. I'll post screens if it works out.
It failed in part because of a stupid physics bug. When I switched the map screen on and off, the booster stage detached and flew through the lander, taking the NERVA with it and blowing off the capsule's chute. I had to navigate to Duna on the lander, which ran out of fuel rather shortly. But, the capsule has linear RCS mounted on the underside of the tank, specifically for extra propulsion. The capsule made it to Duna, but I jammed the wrong key by accident, and didn't decelerate in time, hitting the surface at 300m/s. I had enough RCS fuel for a powered landing, even though I didn't have a chute, but alas - it was not to be.

The second rocket, as you see, made it safely to the planet. But yes, there isn't enough fuel left to actually plot a route home, even including the RCS of the capsule. I could definitely do it if I could plot a more efficient rendezvous with Duna by hand. Burned a lot of fuel trying to line up the orbit and timing. You know, it'd help if planets had some more information on them - like their rotation period, so you can at least guesstimate at which point your orbits should intersect, based on your time to apoapsis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 22, 2012, 01:31:10 am
this (http://ksp.olex.biz/) is very handy for interplanetary transfers

As for landing and getting back, i cannot seem to construct anything near big enough that doesn't explode on the pad/during 1st stage from the stock parts.

edit: in general though, i'm kind of dissapointed with the attitude they seem to have taken to this release, being "lets just add stuff and let the mod community sort out a way to use it". There's no tools to get to other planets in the game (eg path planning with waypoints etc), and no tools to construct the necessary rockets (docking.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 01:40:41 am
Ah, but that's part of the challenge. Anyone will be able to plot a course to Duna or Eve when they have waypoints. It'll just be point&click, with a modicum of skill required to actually follow the route.

And here's the beastie I plan on using for a "there and back again" trip to Duna, the upgraded Longshot MkIII:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Changes since last version is the re-addition of the booster stage for the NERVA module, to save fuel on getting to actual orbit, and some staging optimization.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 02:05:40 am
One thing that makes me sad is how frequently parachutes just pop right off. I guess they're really sensitive to speed.

I spent like 30 minutes trying to save a Kerbalnaut and the command pod he was in by using the suit thrusters. I actually succeeded in breaking his orbit.
Sadly, after a few seconds of slowing in the atmosphere with the parachute deployed, it just popped like my hopes and dreams. His jetpack was not enough to slow his fall and into the drink he went, at lethal velocity.
My attempts at saving rogue Kerbalnauts have only ended in failure. :(


I've also noticed that changing warp often leads to the parachute popping straight off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 22, 2012, 02:55:27 am
You can put a pair of fuel tank over the booseters and feed te liquid engine from those, getting more trust and dropping the tank weight along with the booster
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 22, 2012, 04:36:36 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 01:40:41 am
Ah, but that's part of the challenge. Anyone will be able to plot a course to Duna or Eve when they have waypoints. It'll just be point&click, with a modicum of skill required to actually follow the route.
But it'd be about designing a rocket that can do the thigns you need it to do, which is what I'm in this game for as much as anything. Not to mention the cool images along the way

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 01:40:41 am
And here's the beastie I plan on using for a "there and back again" trip to Duna, the upgraded Longshot MkIII:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If that's something that could get to duna... I may have been seriously overdoing my rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 05:35:53 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on September 22, 2012, 04:36:36 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 01:40:41 am
And here's the beastie I plan on using for a "there and back again" trip to Duna, the upgraded Longshot MkIII:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If that's something that could get to duna... I may have been seriously overdoing my rockets.
That's essentially what already gets to Duna. It has a rather slow start, because it has to finish its initial orbital burn with the NERVA engines (and for this reason it sorta requires a rather strange egress trajectory), but all in all, it's workable. I am far from a great astronavigator, too, so I bet this design could easily get to Jool. Maybe not Moho, it probably doesn't have enough delta-v for it, but Eve, Duna, and Jool are probably all within the realm of possibility. I'm trying to make it carry a bigger lander now, so that it can make a return trip from Duna as well.

Latest experiment with launching the heavier lander was met with failure. Even with the added booster stage, there is too much mass to establish orbit. At least manually. I think I'll need a third booster set for the main egress stage. Maybe I could just expand the first booster set to double or triple boosters, so I can save more fuel for higher altitudes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on September 22, 2012, 06:05:15 am
This is really bugging me. I've been trying to download the patch for the last few days, and every time I bother to try the website is down. uasdsadkandsa
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 22, 2012, 08:08:36 am
Go to that other Bay and get it from there instead.
If you paid for it, I don't think they care how you got it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 22, 2012, 08:21:45 am
Firefox + downthemall + fulldownload
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 22, 2012, 08:23:23 am
My strategy of screw you game I will not do math on my free time is almost working. I nearly hit the mun this time by just going in it's general direction, I think I was going too fast though since I blasted straight past it :p Guess I will have to get some way to slow down when I get closer to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 08:29:14 am
Quote from: Aptus on September 22, 2012, 08:23:23 am
My strategy of screw you game I will not do math on my free time is almost working. I nearly hit the mun this time by just going in it's general direction, I think I was going too fast though since I blasted straight past it :p Guess I will have to get some way to slow down when I get closer to it.
You made a rocket powerful enough to get to the Mun... just by firing upwards?
Show us it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 08:52:54 am
Okay... so, the latest launch of the Longshot was really bad.

It began with the problems with triple boosters. To conserve space, I mounted them together, and just fixed them with a pair of struts as usual. Turns out, three large SRBs have enough thrust to break two struts and the decoupler connection. Whoops. After a series of tests (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot39.png), during which nobody was killed (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot40.png), despite the rocket exploding thrice (seriously, how the pod survived the whole rocket somersaulting over the launch tower and bursting into hot plasma, I'll never know), I finally got a design that kept itself together through the staging process.

What followed was the stupidest successful launch in the history of my space program. The triple NERVA engine block does not have enough power to accelerate the heavier lander quickly. Due to this, even with the orbital boosters, the craft dipped way into the atmosphere on its orbital burn. To about 40Km. The NERVA had just enough power to push the thing out the other side of the ionosphere and get to the Duna transfer orbit, but damn. I really need to work on the orbital insertion sequence for this thing. Maybe another set of boosters attached to the lander...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 22, 2012, 09:42:20 am
That sounds like my experience with the NERVA engines. I'd also been overengineering my rockets a bit, going with the smaller parts for the upper stages which was all of terrible looking, terrible for my frame rate and terrible for trying to hold everything together without it shattering to pieces.

Continuing on from my semi-successful 1 person Ayla VX lander, and my successful in theory but never in practice Bertha series of Deep Space Rescue Vehicles, I present the Isis Mk1.

It behaves a hell of a lot like the Bertha in every stage up to orbit. It just lacks about a dozen boosters and 40-something small fuel tanks which have all been replaced by large tanks and engines. NERVA engines stapled to the outside of the upper stages provide interplanetary transit thrust and avoid the problem with Bertha which ended up being more of an onion rocket, short but wide to wrap around the central NERVA engines.

Isis's only real problem so far is that she's a bit wobbly on launch, but manual control solves most of that. ASAS just tends to be useless until orbit. I've yet to take it anywhere and land it though, it may prove to be too top heavy for anything but absolutely flat terrain. We shall see. I'm planning my 5th trip to Duna, trying to refine my technique and hopefully have a rocket capable of a return trip this time. (Poor Rodfry is still up there, 2 years on his trip clock.)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

She may look like a bunch of grain silos taped together, but she flies. You can trust me on that. Simplicity really is the better option.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 22, 2012, 10:00:02 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 08:29:14 am
Quote from: Aptus on September 22, 2012, 08:23:23 am
My strategy of screw you game I will not do math on my free time is almost working. I nearly hit the mun this time by just going in it's general direction, I think I was going too fast though since I blasted straight past it :p Guess I will have to get some way to slow down when I get closer to it.
You made a rocket powerful enough to get to the Mun... just by firing upwards?
Show us it.

Sure.

(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8647/theovercompensator.png)

It is the wobbliest, most ungraceful thing you will ever see but damn does it go.

My issue is not getting enough thrust to just power to the moon, my problem is actually hitting it and not overshooting it ending up kerbal knows where :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 22, 2012, 10:42:33 am
You don't need so many ASAS units! Just one! ASAS doesn't add force, it's just a control unit for your engines/control surfaces.

In other news, the Longshot MkIV has finally launched with a degree of acceptability that I would find acceptable.
Spoiler: A bunch of grain silos? Mine looks like a miniature church, with all the domes. (click to show/hide)
Now it's sitting in a 180/80 orbit, with most of two large tanks of fuel for the NERVAs, and two full large tanks for the lander. Plus the RCS, for the emergency maneuvers in space. I'm saving this state and will now savescum to see how far I can get with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on September 22, 2012, 11:22:26 am
I do the same thing minus the waiting for the right angle. I just point myself where I think it'll be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Squanto on September 22, 2012, 11:58:23 am
herp derp I just noticed I forgot to put landing gear on my first interplanetary rocket.  Oh well, I may as well still see if I can hit a planet to see if its good enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 22, 2012, 12:11:50 pm
Anyone planning a trip to Eve, be careful... The atmosphere there is like soup... and it might just be my graphics settings, but the liquid surface seemed to be invisible. My engines did almost nothing although my lander had slowed down to less than 70 m/s just before impact even without the engines.

I really can't imagine how a return trip would work, although I'm sure someone will figure it out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 12:48:18 pm
So, did anybody on this thread mention the tutorials and scenarios and things?
Because I think those are pretty neat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Squanto on September 22, 2012, 12:56:09 pm
Good news everyone! my rocket is much more powerful than I had planned!  I inneficiently increased AP to Jool's orbit, then waited till I got there, then burned until it showed me entering SOI.  Inside, i circularized orbit and still had about 3 tanks of fuel left.  I decided to enter Jool's atmo to see if anything happens.  While my command pod was falling though the atmo at about 50 m/s, I was like, EVA time!, but as soon as i started he plummeted much faster than the ship and fell to his death.  Kerbals are not affected by wind resistance.  Not planning ahead is the best.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 22, 2012, 01:06:44 pm
I started an eastward ascent to drop to moho, using the calculator posted earlier.

The mun got into the way and I got deflected to duna
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 22, 2012, 02:52:35 pm
Might as well post what i've done...

Here's a kerbonaut watching the sunrise... On the moon.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's Jeb, Bill and Bob stranded on Eve after space Cthulhu ripped their ship apart.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They had to push their pod with jetpacks to get down there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:00:44 pm
Is there any reason why a ship design that is perfectly symmetrical would be veering off to the side when I launch it? I did everything with radial symmetry, but when I activate the first stage of boosters, the whole thing just veers off to the side. The SAS doesn't help too much seeing as it's one of the large ships.
Wat do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 22, 2012, 03:03:18 pm
Add more SAS. I have a SAS on the top of each solid booster, and one ASAS somewhere near the capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:19:17 pm
I have one set of 6 boosters with a SAS on each, and another higher up with 4 each.
The SAS are all at maximum force, and the craft still tips.

I don't even know where I would add more SAS now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 03:35:01 pm
Throw some winglets on it too? Those help a bit more, if your initial stages don't have vectored engines. Those can slow your tip just enough that you *should* being going upwards more than to the side, and your later stages can take over in stabilizing you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
Quote from: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 03:35:01 pm
Throw some winglets on it too? Those help a bit more, if your initial stages don't have vectored engines.
Is lift also what is responsible for keeping things stable? If so, then I could probably just slap a load of delta wings onto my boosters. And this also higlights for me that the game needs something like the larger ASAS, but a SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 03:49:19 pm
I made it to Duna and back! Hurray!
Spoiler: The lander (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The interplanetary stage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The lifting stage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hello from Duna! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 22, 2012, 04:08:20 pm
hehe. everybody is talking about how to get to planets and back, and all I have managed to do is to strand crews on the mun. each rescue crew gets stranded too, for several reasons. and I can't even bring a rover there. the 2 times I tried doing that, it broke during landing.

does anyone have a good rover design? if my kerbonauts can get better transport, that could be a nice colony.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 04:55:57 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
Quote from: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 03:35:01 pm
Throw some winglets on it too? Those help a bit more, if your initial stages don't have vectored engines.
Is lift also what is responsible for keeping things stable? If so, then I could probably just slap a load of delta wings onto my boosters. And this also higlights for me that the game needs something like the larger ASAS, but a SAS.
Actually, seems like no matter how much stuff I slap on there, it can't keep itself upright. I suspect a thrust imbalance but can't see anything on the ship that isn't symmetrical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 05:43:56 pm
Your center of mass might be too high so it's just falling over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulufaic on September 22, 2012, 06:05:41 pm
Quote from: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 03:49:19 pm
I made it to Duna and back! Hurray!
Spoiler: The lander (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The interplanetary stage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The lifting stage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hello from Duna! (click to show/hide)
Instead of using all that fuel to slow you down to deploy your lander, why not just Aerobrake and save weight?
You only need enough fuel for some light orbital maneuvering after you get the intercept trajectory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 22, 2012, 06:08:17 pm
Duna doesn't have much atmosphere, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 22, 2012, 08:07:33 pm
I do aerobrake, actually I lucked out that when I did my second pass around Duna I intercepted it's moon and used it to slingshot me straight onto Duna so I used almost no fuel to slow down. I carry that fuel so that I can get back home. 1 large tank with a nuclear engine is enough to get back from Duna but I need to get out of the atmosphere first.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 22, 2012, 09:34:18 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 04:55:57 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
Quote from: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 03:35:01 pm
Throw some winglets on it too? Those help a bit more, if your initial stages don't have vectored engines.
Is lift also what is responsible for keeping things stable? If so, then I could probably just slap a load of delta wings onto my boosters. And this also higlights for me that the game needs something like the larger ASAS, but a SAS.
Actually, seems like no matter how much stuff I slap on there, it can't keep itself upright. I suspect a thrust imbalance but can't see anything on the ship that isn't symmetrical.

You might actually be trying to go too fast. Most rockets can't get much faster than 150 m/s in the low atmosphere without wanting to do flips. Keep your speed down around 100 m/s-ish until you get above 5000 meters, then under 200 till you get to 10,000. From then on you're safer, but just don't go crazy with the acceleration. I honestly haven't used an SAS in several versions, just thrust vectoring and fins keep me stable as long as you don't try to do more than you can handle aerodynamically.

Besides, if you're trying to pile on that much speed too low then you're just wasting fuel. The faster you go, the more you have to fight the air resistance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 09:44:06 pm
Quote from: sluissa on September 22, 2012, 09:34:18 pm
Spoiler: The Quoted Pyramid the Quoted Pyramid of Quoting (click to show/hide)

You might actually be trying to go too fast. Most rockets can't get much faster than 150 m/s in the low atmosphere without wanting to do flips. Keep your speed down around 100 m/s-ish until you get above 5000 meters, then under 200 till you get to 10,000. From then on you're safer, but just don't go crazy with the acceleration. I honestly haven't used an SAS in several versions, just thrust vectoring and fins keep me stable as long as you don't try to do more than you can handle aerodynamically.

Besides, if you're trying to pile on that much speed too low then you're just wasting fuel. The faster you go, the more you have to fight the air resistance.
I found that the main problem was the huge payload causing the centre of mass to be about half the ship up from the centre of thrust. I pretty much just changed the higher stages into the smaller rockets, and it still does its job fine.

Thanks for the numbers though, I'll keep those in mind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 22, 2012, 09:46:04 pm
Horribly wobbily rocket, with about a 30% success at reaching orbit (70% of the time it spontaneously explodes in atmosphere)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Current more successful rocket. Can almost get to the moon in a straight line from Kerban. Alot of RCS thrusters are needed to keep this thing straight...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 22, 2012, 09:56:45 pm
I have never used any SAS other than the ASAS :P I just use a crapload of fins, 4-8 on the booster stage, 3 on the orbit stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on September 23, 2012, 12:39:11 am
You only need 1 asas. The asas controls the sas, the sas applies the force. The more sas the more possible force, but more asas is pointless because you don't need more control. Also why are you trying to get to the moon in a straight line? That's super inefficient because you'll be fighting gravity the whole way up. Get into an orbit heading 90, then when the moon rises on the horizon burn prograde until your orbit intercepts the moon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 23, 2012, 12:59:16 am
Quote from: Thendash on September 23, 2012, 12:39:11 am
Also why are you trying to get to the moon in a straight line? That's super inefficient because you'll be fighting gravity the whole way up.

Its Fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 23, 2012, 01:21:45 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 04:55:57 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 22, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
Quote from: Lightning4 on September 22, 2012, 03:35:01 pm
Throw some winglets on it too? Those help a bit more, if your initial stages don't have vectored engines.
Is lift also what is responsible for keeping things stable? If so, then I could probably just slap a load of delta wings onto my boosters. And this also higlights for me that the game needs something like the larger ASAS, but a SAS.
Actually, seems like no matter how much stuff I slap on there, it can't keep itself upright. I suspect a thrust imbalance but can't see anything on the ship that isn't symmetrical.
I had this problem with one of my huge rockets, but having vectored thrusters fixed it all up. Don't know whether you can do the same, but they are very helpful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 01:52:50 am
Remembe the asas uses the point of your nose as input vector direction if your rocket bends its control will be... Suboptimal.

Also check out wing attachment because not all surfaces will produce the expected result when placed on rotational simmetry.

Static surfaces on the bottom should provide enough force within the atmosphere to keep your nose upright, but remember that you will need to turn at sone point to get in orbit so don't overdo it, I once did a rocket so stable I could not turn ot anyway  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 23, 2012, 03:28:13 am
Argh, can anyone give me some tips for rocket building? Where should I be trying to get my centre of mass/thrust to be? I'm sucking hard at this, out of all my tries on the Mun, I only landed 3 times, only survived one of those 3, and had no fuel to get back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 23, 2012, 03:55:42 am
Quote from: Chattox on September 23, 2012, 03:28:13 am
Argh, can anyone give me some tips for rocket building? Where should I be trying to get my centre of mass/thrust to be? I'm sucking hard at this, out of all my tries on the Mun, I only landed 3 times, only survived one of those 3, and had no fuel to get back.

For the center of mass, im not sure where it should be along the Z axis (up/down, my guess is higher is better) but along the X/Y axis, it should be in the center (the symmetry tool is increadibly useful for this). Same with the thrust. The more center-ness it is, the more straight the rocket will go (and further down from the center of mass along the Z axis will help too.)

Post your rocket as an image, it will be easier to identify issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 23, 2012, 04:01:40 am
Just make sure they are both along the centreline, basically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 04:19:21 am
Center of mass and center of thrust position don't matter much. What you need is the thrust vector to be pointing through the CoM. That's all there is.

General tips: the less drag on the nose, the better. Don't put wings or control surfaces on the nose. Use only as many engines as it takes to lift all your fuel. Even if all you can get is 1m/s acceleration on the launchpad out of just the engines, it'll work. Strap some solid boosters on to get yourself up to speed in that case. Remember, a simple rocket will usually work better than a complicated one. Don't overdo the staging. Remember: ASAS is a control unit, you only ever need one of it. Don't forget to use the thrust vectoring engines - larger ones don't give you a choice in the matter (they all vector), but the smaller ones, while less effective, are still vital, especially if you rely on Aerospikes too much. Don't shun the air-breathers for vertical-launch rockets. It may seem silly, but they are ridiculously effective boosters for smaller rockets. They'll save you tons of fuel just by bringing you those 15km up so your other engines can work more efficiently.

That's all the tips I can remember off the top of my head.

Also, the pendulum rocket fallacy assumes just the thrust position difference. In practice, a nose-engine rocket would be top-heavy, with the fuel tanks in the back forming an aerodynamic foil that gets lighter as the rocket burns fuel. In addition, it'd allow to jettison fuel tanks as they empty, for when the benefit of the stabilizing "tail" is less than the efficiency gained by losing its mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 23, 2012, 04:44:20 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 04:19:21 am
Also, the pendulum rocket fallacy assumes just the thrust position difference. In practice, a nose-engine rocket would be top-heavy, with the fuel tanks in the back forming an aerodynamic foil that gets lighter as the rocket burns fuel. In addition, it'd allow to jettison fuel tanks as they empty, for when the benefit of the stabilizing "tail" is less than the efficiency gained by losing its mass.

I've been thinking about using the separator boosters to make a reverse rocket, with the landing stage just above the engines, and fuel tanks on top of it all. It's will then use the separators to blow the fuel tanks away from the top....
It's gonna be awesome!


There is one more thing to consider with centre of mass and thrust, above having a stable rocket:
Structural integrity. Clearly having most of the mass close to the thrust will reduce overall stress to the craft. Allowing for less struts, and therefore less lag and weight.
This is also one of the reasons why a good craft is cone shaped, besides aerodynamics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 06:23:33 am
An important thing is the lateral stress if you stage your rocket inside in:

If your outer layer produces struts and your inner layer engines are off, you are all weight plus inertial mass ob the outer layer struts. This is what makes more stable cross feeding fuel toward the inner layer and using the internal layer engine too.

Also, if you accellerate too much, however, the nose stage inertial mass will crush the stage separator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 23, 2012, 07:20:47 am
I think I have finally managed to create my Mun-Lander. Now I will just have to practice using it and I am good to go. I'm using mostly stock parts except for a set of nose cones and booster rockets with built in detachers. For the last stage I wanted to use a nuclear engine for fuel efficiency but I had issues with the landing gear not being long enough to reach below the engine so I am using a non-stock part that seems to be comparable statswise to the nuke engine but shorter.
By popular demand I am only using one ASAS unit now :p

(http://imageshack.us/a/img571/4600/tothemun.png)

Stage 1: The four fuel tanks sitting on detachers feed the main engine for take off and as far up as it goes.

Stage 2: Detach the four radial fuel tanks, turn off the main engine and activate the four booster rockets. I have to turn off the main engine here or I noticed the acceleration becomes too great and the lower part cruises on through the upper part causing everything to go boom.

Stage 3: Detach the booster rockets and use the main engine to get on a trajectory for the Mun.

Stage 4: Lander stage using the small engine to correct the course and decellerate for Mun landing. Hopefully this engine will then be enough to get off the mun as well.


I did just notice now that I forgot to add ladders to the lander so that will have to be fixed as well :p

So the rocket and lander are good to go, now I just have to practice actually HITTING that damn ball of cheese.

EDIT: Whoops I had set the booster rockets to the same stage as the decoupling of the main engine which lead to some premature shenanigans. Atleast I got to test my lander on kerbin from near orbit, I managed to straighten it out from a quite severe spin and reduce the falling speed to about 60m/s which was well within what the parachute could handle so silver lining and all that.

EDITEDIT: One feature I do really want though is the ability to dump fuel. As in not just by decoupling the fuel tank but actually emptying out the fuel from it. Would make me less nervous when landing on Kerbin if I could drain any left over fuel from the tank first :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 08:45:57 am
Okay, I have engineered myself a new ship.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Any bets on how the launch will go?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 23, 2012, 08:54:31 am
It's just a guess, but I don't believe you have enough engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 08:54:52 am
Destructively?
I'd say that's the word I'm looking for. Will that even fit on the launch pad?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 09:14:28 am
Quote from: sluissa on September 23, 2012, 08:54:31 am
It's just a guess, but I don't believe you have enough engine.
Well, that's one rare guess there that's both right and wrong. It has enough engine to fly (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot67.png), by far (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot68.png). But I fail at using the NERVAs to establish orbit (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot71.png). The previous modification got to a fairly sizeable orbit (somewhere beyond 2K Km apogee) on just the main thrusters, so I wanted to use NERVAs to take it a little further. I guess I'll need to use the main thrusters to establish an orbit first, huh?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 23, 2012, 09:31:10 am
Quick question: I've seen it mentioned a few times here but what is NERVA?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 23, 2012, 09:37:07 am
the new low thrust high ( vacuum) efficency nuclear rocket that was introduced in latest version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 23, 2012, 09:41:32 am
NERVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA) Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Applications

Essentially you have a core of nuclear material which is very hot and you pump very cold, compressed fluid(usually liquid hydrogen) over it. The fluid heats up, turns into a gas, and expands out the back of the nozzle giving you thrust. The benefit to this is that you give up having to carry weighty oxidizer for the fuel. It's not perfectly emulated in the game, but essentially it gives you the same benefit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on September 23, 2012, 09:49:46 am
Ah, thanks.

On other news, another near miss on trying to hit the moon by shooting from the hip. It is getting closer though.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img209/8223/nearmiss.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 09:56:17 am
An old trick is to aim at the mun as it rises over the horizon
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 09:59:21 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 09:56:17 am
An old trick is to aim at the mun as it rises over the horizon
I believe that he's doing it just straight from Kerbin, upwards.
Which means that you want about a 50 degree angle I think. I know that going from Kerbin to the Mun from orbit usually has it move about 50 degrees ahead, but with the whole launching thing, you might have to compensate another 10 or 15 degrees.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 10:03:12 am
Okay, after some modifications and fuel line optimizations (it was using the top stack fuel alongside the drop tanks), Celestia's Guidance MkII is on intercept course with Duna (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/screenshot74.png), with about 1800 fuel left for the NERVAs (that's about 600m/s delta-v), and the lander has another 800 fuel, which it's going to use much more efficiently.

Also, take a little note there. The capsule, which has a ring of boosters but seemingly no parachute? It has a parachute. Mounted within the decoupler. Great way to save space!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on September 23, 2012, 11:15:25 am
I'm still failing to even get to the mun, but i'm getting closer.
I'll probably need to reread all that stuff about transfer orbits etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 23, 2012, 11:17:18 am
Only just now getting back into this. I'm using the MapSat plugin to map Kerbal, so placing mapping sats into different orbits to cover the surface. Its fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 23, 2012, 11:44:39 am
As requested I turned off easy mode, and made a 3m lander:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, space haiku.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 11:59:05 am
Did they come home?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 23, 2012, 12:56:29 pm
Kerbin is now mapped entirely. Took some doing and a lot of waiting. The mapping plugin is neat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2012, 03:08:53 pm
Celestia's Guidance MkII has just had a very (un)eventful trip. After realizing that an intercept of Duna is unlikely, and accelerating to attempt an intercept of Jool (missed by a few weeks' travel time), the pilot got exceedingly bored and decided to have a rendezvous with the Sun. I mean, the ship's name at least is fitting. So, at the apoapsis around the orbit of Jool, the pilot slammed the metaphorical brakes and brought the ship to a near stop. The fuel in the main section had run out, and the lander section used about half of its fuel to accomplish the transfer to about 300km off the Sun's surface - reasonably safe, but close enough to look. Spending three quarters of a year getting there, the pilot got a neat view of the Sun's spots, and then became bored again as nothing of interest could be accomplished any more. Too late did the pilot notice that the trajectory had put him close to an intersect with Kerbin, and even with all the fuel left for the NERVA engine, and the 400m/s boost from the emergency capsule ejection system, he could not even enter the system's SOI, missing it by a hair. So, all opportunities save for the semi-cheating space pack exploit expended, the capsule was lost in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on September 23, 2012, 03:12:49 pm
Just finally landed on Minmus.
After the new version came out I realised I should probably conquer Kerbin and her moons before moving on.
Had a relatively good landing, even managing to manoeuvre over to a lake for a nice easy landing. Pictures will surely follow.
So you all scoff with your Duna landings and what not, I'm getting there. ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 04:32:56 pm
I've gotten to the Mun now, with an entire 1.5 fuel tanks left (running on nuclear engine so that's quite a lot), I reckon that I could land some pretty heavy stuff there, if I'd actually used a rocket with a lander on it to get there. I accidentally brought the model that I was going to use for some deep space exploration (Kerbol slingshot). Another landing that cannot be. And I wasn't going to risk trying to land the not-a-lander because Jeb was onboard, and I didn't want him dying. I just put him in a 1.5km orbit so he can watch the surface whizzing by.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 23, 2012, 05:00:57 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 04:32:56 pm
I wasn't going to risk trying to land the not-a-lander because Jeb was onboard, and I didn't want him dying. I just put him in a 1.5km orbit so he can watch the surface whizzing by.

You might have an inadvertent 'landing' with that orbit regardless. There are mountains of more than 3 km on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 05:14:01 pm
Quote from: Sordid on September 23, 2012, 05:00:57 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 04:32:56 pm
I wasn't going to risk trying to land the not-a-lander because Jeb was onboard, and I didn't want him dying. I just put him in a 1.5km orbit so he can watch the surface whizzing by.

You might have an inadvertent 'landing' with that orbit regardless. There are mountains of more than 3 km on the Mun.
The wiki disagrees, but it's also way out of date.
I was kind of hoping to see some of the geographical features that apparently exist on the mun, but no luck so far. Most of the time I've been looking, it's been nighttime though.
We need floodlights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 23, 2012, 05:46:16 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 05:14:01 pm
We need floodlights.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on September 23, 2012, 05:46:51 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 23, 2012, 05:14:01 pm
We need floodlights.
I wonderful if it's moddable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SP2 on September 23, 2012, 05:49:23 pm
I suppose this (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/9234-Omega-Areospace-Incompetance-you-can-beleive-in!-%28Floodlights-inside%29) is relevant for floodlights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 23, 2012, 06:01:09 pm
Is it just me or are the extending/retracting ladders broken?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 23, 2012, 06:20:43 pm
Yeah, nevermind; I'm retarded. Was trying to left click :P

EDIT: YES! I LANDED ON THE GODDAMN MOON AND SURVIVED! I don't have enough fuel to get back but I LANDED ON THE MOON!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 23, 2012, 07:35:36 pm
EDIT: let's wait till it's definitely working for 0.17.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on September 23, 2012, 07:46:42 pm
Because fuck logic. You have my applause.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on September 23, 2012, 09:21:57 pm
You should upload that save.

On another note, anyone know how to make a plane that doesn't nosedive slowly when using ASAS?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 23, 2012, 11:14:16 pm
Quote from: Scelly9 on September 23, 2012, 09:21:57 pm
You should upload that save.

On another note, anyone know how to make a plane that doesn't nosedive slowly when using ASAS?

make one that doesn't need ASAS at all?

I have a plane that, when you put full thrust and let go of the controls, will climb to 5000m, level out, and just keep going till it runs out of fuel, with the only change being a gain in altitude as it loses weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on September 23, 2012, 11:26:01 pm
My planes are too small. If I let go of the conrtols, they flip over backwards, or crash into the ocean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 23, 2012, 11:50:18 pm
You just need to adjust the balance more.

Bigger planes also tend to be more stable, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 24, 2012, 04:01:37 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2012, 11:59:05 am
Did they come home?

Sadly, just after finally getting all three kerbals on board and launching, it ran out of fuel about 1km above Duna....

working on a more powerful craft now, using separators to drop the top tanks first.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 24, 2012, 10:16:36 am
Note-to-self: directly injecting toward duna makes the steering dv extremely low, but it is impossible to brake from the soi change and before the plant surface

 :-X


Edit

Anyone knows how to save a scenario?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 24, 2012, 05:00:08 pm
Is there a way to have the orbital path projection show more than 1 orbit ahead?
I think it looks really awkward the way it is now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 24, 2012, 05:23:31 pm
There;s a variable in the settings text file in the game folder, something like "PATCHED CONICS LIMIT". change that from 2 to however many you want. personally i use 8.

Be warned, you have to have a pretty good idea of how patched conics works to understand what's going on there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on September 24, 2012, 06:35:12 pm
There's a setting right below that one that changes how the conics are displayed. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcuCk7j49lA) a helpful youtube video where a guy goes through all the modes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 24, 2012, 08:57:30 pm
Mode 0 seems stupid but then you can focus the camera only where a plant is not where a planet will be so it makes zooming in your future periapsis easier because you can click the body and zoom in and your path will be there
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on September 24, 2012, 10:00:13 pm
I'm having trouble using the navball to orient myself correctly to change my inclination. What i did during my last munar attempt was to point my craft directly at the nearest celestial body, ie the mun, then orient the next closest body to the left of my craft, then in theory by going into the map i could determine my craft's orientation in relation to everything else by looking at the relatonship between my craft and the 2 other objects. I then attempted to reduce inclination by pointing my craft at the opposite direction to the undesired inclination and burning in the hopes that would change something, now i realise this is probably the most fuel inefficient way of doing this and any change should and B) my orbit was actually getting more massive, probably because also due to an error my speed was increasing.
I gave up trying to make my inclination match the solar plane again and instead went straight to changing my orbit to match the muns. I almost suceeded, i had my orbiter orbiting kerbin at 11.5 million kilometers and travelling at 580 Km/s and just barely catching up with the mun, It was in my sights perhaps 200,000 kilometers away.
I pointed my craft straight at the damn rock and burned without any thoughts of bothering to line things up correctly, that's when i noticed my inclination had basically levelled out by itself during all the proceding burns i had made to match orbit and speed.
Anyhow i ran out of fuel and ended up with an orbit that almost touched the mun every 20 years.
Good times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 24, 2012, 10:17:34 pm
Play the orbit tutorial.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 24, 2012, 10:26:27 pm
Inclination is always changed by burning 90 degrees up or down from the direction of travel. If you were travelling on the system plane, you'd burn directly north or south at the horizon. If you were travelling in a polar orbit, it would be east or west at the horizon. Inclination changes are always at the horizon.

EDIT: Also, unless you want your apoapsis or periapsis to change you'll need to change your heading as your inclination changes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 24, 2012, 10:39:29 pm
Spoiler: OHMYGODITSEVEANDIMGOINGTOLANDONIT (click to show/hide)

One way trip, because I dont have enough fuel. Also due to lack of decoupler, the entire bottom part of the rocket was torn off anyway when the parachutes opened. Oops.

Spoiler: splash down? Almost invisible water (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Now just to get out... FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 25, 2012, 03:33:56 am
After many failed prototypes (about 20) I have finally completed the Reverse craft:
Reverse Engineering MK2
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It drops the fuel tanks from the top instead of the bottom, like so:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It brings a super heavy interplanetary stage into orbit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's 3 and a half 3M fuel tanks, 8 1M fuel tanks, 8 Nerva engines and 1 small 3M engine(for lifting off from atmospheric planets).

This beast can easily reach Jool, and with clever air breaking, could probably land on one of the rock moons.

Flyby of Tylo with a nice Jool rise:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In orbit over Jool:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fatal splashdown on Laythe:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did actually manage to "land" on a small island on Laythe, however there was a mixup at the factory and the craft was outfitted with small landing legs.
The craft landed nicely on the beach with a solid 2m/s but bunched off the engine, since the legs were too short.
I "forgot" to take pictures out of shame.


I was figuring on just settling Laythe since it seems impossible to get back to Kerbin from there, since it has about the same atmosphere.
Jool is seriously Hard Mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 25, 2012, 06:03:01 am
I was just about to come in here and post similar screenshots, except with less rocket remaining. Dam.
Atmosphere of it starts at 55000m btw.

I think i've got a design that will allow me to launch a rocket that can reach duna and return. Its based off the assumption that a single NERVA engine on 1 and a half 3m diameter tanks is enough to get the 3 man command pod home from duna orbit. Is that a good assumption?
Secondly, has anyone managed to land and take off from duna before? any idea what sort of rocket one needs to do it?

edit: the maths says you only need an escape velocity of 1500m/s to return to kerbin once you are in a 50km orbit of duna. In that case 1 and a half tanks of fuel is probably overkill.


edit: have some screenshots

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The second is quite possibly one of the most amazing things i've seen in a sandbox game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 25, 2012, 09:07:07 am
Is laythe habitable?
The surface is almost covered in ocean, question is: is it water?
It's very far from the sun, so it has to have some other way to make the water liquid.
Could it be lot's a greenhouse gas + tidal strain from Jool? (like Europa)

EDIT: are you landing on Laythe in both pictures? what does the launch stage look like?

EDIT2: Remember that the atmosphere is blue, and the colour represents it's chemical composition. Can you get this kind of greenhouse effect with a blue atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 25, 2012, 09:32:55 am
Behold!! My Mun mining base, courtesy of the kethane mod.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Uhh... Did i accidentally kill the thread or something? Was it that bad?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 25, 2012, 12:55:32 pm
The sun has a body! And spots!

Anyone else noticed? 'Landed' on it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 25, 2012, 01:24:33 pm
actually, it works fine in .17 from what I can tell... only minor hitch is that it may not place kethane deposits on the new planets unless you're starting a clean new game.

(i.e. You had Kethane installed before .17, upgraded, and are still using the same save.) I'm not entirely sure about that though.

In any case, I've already got a mining operation going on the mun, after my third attempt landing. First ended in non-destructive failure. The rocket just tipped over on the Mun. Kerbs were fine and are waiting for rescue. Second ended up much the same way, except with more explosions. Kerbs died tragically. Third ended up well enough with a bit of mechjeb help.(It was dark and I couldn't see to land and didn't have enough fuel to boost myself back up into orbit for another attempt in brighter conditions.)

I've also heard reports that people have found kethane not only on Duna, but the moons of Jool as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 25, 2012, 02:51:39 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 01:39:52 pm
EDIT: you know those recommended videos that come up after watching a video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY&feature=player_embedded
this is brilliant.
That was fantastic.

This video is nowhere near as good, just me putting my first satellite into orbit. Still, I'm learning. I thought the cowling was interesting, and I'm still tweaking designs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdfBjkcmhE0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 25, 2012, 03:02:27 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 01:39:52 pm
arright!

getting kethane mod!
also, I like that moon jool has that has oceans etc. on it. I can imagine that being one of the first planets to colonise, in the game.

EDIT: you know those recommended videos that come up after watching a video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY&feature=player_embedded
this is brilliant.

I don't know about that. The first place I'd colonize is Minimus; with its low gravity, a large ship can leave there much more easily than Kerbin, allowing more payload per mission when going elsewhere. Meanwhile, getting to Minimus is relatively easy for even a rather large payload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 25, 2012, 03:08:19 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 03:04:42 pm
Low polar orbit is probably best for mapping, TBH, as over time, the whole planet will be mapped, not just one area.
Yeah, the equatorial orbit was just to test the satellite. I have one in high polar orbit (400km orbit). With two scanners, it maps pretty decently even at 400k and gets a very wide area on each pass. This image is from only a few orbits, you can see how wide the mapping area is per pass.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 25, 2012, 03:10:27 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 01:39:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY&feature=player_embedded

I'll just pretend this things are advanced remote controlled machines that wage war on a planet completely unrelated to Kerbin. And this war will never reach it.

I can't help it, I like goofiness of KSP to much to see little green guys intentionally blasting each other with those serious-looking, cold machines of war.  :(

But that aside - nice video and some damn nice models.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 25, 2012, 03:11:00 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 03:04:42 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 25, 2012, 02:51:39 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 01:39:52 pm
EDIT: you know those recommended videos that come up after watching a video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY&feature=player_embedded
this is brilliant.
That was fantastic.

This video is nowhere near as good, just me putting my first satellite into orbit. Still, I'm learning. I thought the cowling was interesting, and I'm still tweaking designs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdfBjkcmhE0
Low polar orbit is probably best for mapping, TBH, as over time, the whole planet will be mapped, not just one area.
Someone should make a "killsat network" mod. You score not by merely coverage, but by maximum response time for any given area. And then you'd have a target painter thingy that'd actually call a killsat strike onto the designated position, and you'd get to experience the fruits of your labor first-hand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 25, 2012, 03:48:43 pm
Already been said that the devs don't want to put weapons in the game... but if you want to use/make a mod for it, I suppose that's your decision.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 25, 2012, 05:38:39 pm
So I was told that my kethane transporter looks 'sketchy'.
First I tried something like this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but it didn't have enough dV to land then take off again, so I improvised.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It lands on Mun and is quite capable of driving around as long as you're extremely careful. I haven't actually gotten the chance to send it back into orbit, but it should have more than enough thrust and dV to take off and meet up with the orbiting fuel depot. (ignore the name, I used the same pod and launch platform for the fuel depot / converter station)
Both the depot and the transporter have erkle docking clamps, hence the smoke coming off the top.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 26, 2012, 02:45:08 am
Quote from: ank on September 25, 2012, 09:07:07 am
Is laythe habitable?
The surface is almost covered in ocean, question is: is it water?
It's very far from the sun, so it has to have some other way to make the water liquid.
Could it be lot's a greenhouse gas + tidal strain from Jool? (like Europa)

EDIT: are you landing on Laythe in both pictures? what does the launch stage look like?

EDIT2: Remember that the atmosphere is blue, and the colour represents it's chemical composition. Can you get this kind of greenhouse effect with a blue atmosphere?

Yes, according to nova the oceans are water, presumably its got an oxygen atmosphere then. Tidal strain is the main reason, also magics, according to nova. 


edit: rocket used. Lots of overkill on it. final stage is 1.5 tanks and NERVA, strap on liquids were for duna ascent. It can't quite make orbit however unless i drop the middle tank of the NERVA's when its full, (and while the outer gimball engines are still thrusting), so it can't get to duna with the ascent engines still attached. Hence I went to Jool instead, just to check it out. I'm planning to redesign this rocket with a much smaller top (1 large tank, NERVA and maybe add some RCS), slightly smaller duna ascent engines and then beef up the middle stages by making them 6 rather than 4. that should make a rocket that can get to duna easily.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
yes, both the same landing on Laythe. Since its tidally locked, the gas giant sits in the same spot. Much more noticeable than it is with Kerbin while on the mun.

for the atmosphere colour, as nova said, magics :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 26, 2012, 03:05:22 am
Quote from: Sinistar on September 25, 2012, 03:10:27 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 25, 2012, 01:39:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY&feature=player_embedded

I'll just pretend this things are advanced remote controlled machines that wage war on a planet completely unrelated to Kerbin. And this war will never reach it.

I can't help it, I like goofiness of KSP to much to see little green guys intentionally blasting each other with those serious-looking, cold machines of war.  :(

But that aside - nice video and some damn nice models.
Funny thing, first thing I thought when I saw this was "SUPREME COMMANDEEEEER!"
seriously:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on September 26, 2012, 03:20:51 am
I did that too, after hearing that battleship fire it's turret - isn't it just as some cannons from SC?? :o
(probably generic sci-fi heavy ballistic cannon sound, but yeah)

But funny how I did not notice resemblance with Rhino, Cybrian's being my favourite SC faction and all that.  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 26, 2012, 04:10:49 am
I've probably played a good 20+ hours of SC by now and i dont' think i've ever been zoomed in enough to see what the units look like
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 26, 2012, 04:17:20 am
@sneakey pete
I think you would get some success out of combining the landing and nerva stage, to reduce weight.
That weight could be spent on another set of fuel tanks for the bottom engines, bringing them up to 4.

I think you got an overkill on normal rockets on the landing stage. instead of 4 normal and 1 nerva, i'd suggest the opposit.

landing on duna can be done with parachutes+nerva.

i've just stopped using rcs altogether... the M3 module has so much SAS anyways.

And lastly, building rockets with command pods on the top is so last week!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 26, 2012, 04:23:58 am
Don't get me wrong, the "landing stage" is paracuted. I put those 4*3tanks+engine on there only for ascent. Turns out, that's probably a bit overkill. I did just have another brilliant idea... Time to build.

edit: for some reason i forgot you can disable flow to certain tanks to effectively turn off engines. This changes everything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 26, 2012, 09:53:53 am
Right, here are my kethane Exploring, Expanding and Exploiting ships
Warning: Large pictures

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The nice fairings on the top and the unmanned command pod are from the payload and satellite packs from the same page as the Kethane pack
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Peewee on September 25, 2012, 05:38:39 pm

So I was told that my kethane transporter looks 'sketchy'.
First I tried something like this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but it didn't have enough dV to land then take off again, so I improvised.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It lands on Mun and is quite capable of driving around as long as you're extremely careful. I haven't actually gotten the chance to send it back into orbit, but it should have more than enough thrust and dV to take off and meet up with the orbiting fuel depot. (ignore the name, I used the same pod and launch platform for the fuel depot / converter station)
Both the depot and the transporter have erkle docking clamps, hence the smoke coming off the top.

Remember to add a kethane pump or two if you want to actually move kethane around with it.  :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 26, 2012, 10:27:30 am
I'm aiming for my Duna arrival. I've gotten a ship to Mun, but I haven't landed elsewhere yet. I've got 700 mps and I'm more than 1,000 Km from "sea level". I've got plenty of fuel left in the tank- the nuke rocket has absurd efficiency- plus what's in the lander. I also have a parachute in the upper stage. What speed should I have for my Duna decent?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2012, 10:37:38 am
Quote from: sebcool on September 26, 2012, 09:53:53 am
Right, here are my kethane Exploring, Expanding and Exploiting ships
Warning: Large pictures

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The nice fairings on the top and the unmanned command pod are from the payload and satellite packs from the same page as the Kethane pack
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Peewee on September 25, 2012, 05:38:39 pm

So I was told that my kethane transporter looks 'sketchy'.
First I tried something like this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but it didn't have enough dV to land then take off again, so I improvised.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It lands on Mun and is quite capable of driving around as long as you're extremely careful. I haven't actually gotten the chance to send it back into orbit, but it should have more than enough thrust and dV to take off and meet up with the orbiting fuel depot. (ignore the name, I used the same pod and launch platform for the fuel depot / converter station)
Both the depot and the transporter have erkle docking clamps, hence the smoke coming off the top.

Remember to add a kethane pump or two if you want to actually move kethane around with it.  :)
Awesome. I was working out a kethane 'base' yesterday, mounted on a rocket inside of cowling which would be going to the moon as a refueling base for further solar expansion. I have two designs for heavy landers and a conversion system, just gotta assemble them in orbit and putter over to the mun to land it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on September 26, 2012, 11:28:42 am
I just put my first two capsules in orbit. No rockets or fuel though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 26, 2012, 12:08:05 pm
Kerbal space program is 4X.
Expanding, Exploring, Exploiting and Exploding.
:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on September 26, 2012, 12:14:48 pm
I take back my earlier statement. I believe periapsis on one of them reaches atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 26, 2012, 12:15:59 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 26, 2012, 12:08:05 pm
Kerbal space program is 4X.
Exploring, Exploding, Exploding and Exploding.
:P
FTFY :)

Also, oops:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It seems that in order to fly on Duna, my lander would need bigger wings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2012, 12:16:47 pm
My interplanetary transfer unit should be quite useful if the docking system works as advertised. I haven't done anything with the docking plugin yet, does anyone else have any experience?

My plan is to have an IPT unit in orbit which I rendezvous with. I dock to the IPT and its NERVA engins carry the payload to the other planet/moon then 'release' the payload into orbit and return to Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 26, 2012, 01:07:23 pm
I've tried to rendezvous 2 craft just to see if I could, but it seems almost impossible.

Does anybody have a method or mod for rendezvous?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2012, 01:17:32 pm
Quote from: ank on September 26, 2012, 01:07:23 pm
I've tried to rendezvous 2 craft just to see if I could, but it seems almost impossible.

Does anybody have a method or mod for rendezvous?
Mechjeb can time a launch to rendezvous with an orbiting craft. I haven't tested it out though, and the documentation suggests it only works in a certain orbit. I'm eagerly awaiting some improvements to mechjeb for things like changing orbital inclination and automatic transfer orbit burns, craft rendezvous, etc. I love the game and love playing spaceships but I can't do this stuff manually. I can get to orbit and so a munar transfer, but that is about the extent of my manual skills.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 26, 2012, 01:35:36 pm
Quote from: sebcool on September 26, 2012, 09:53:53 am
Remember to add a kethane pump or two if you want to actually move kethane around with it.  :)
That's what the square thing sticking out from the top is. If you add more than one, it gives 'invalid part configuration' or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 26, 2012, 01:39:28 pm
I like naming some ships almost as flying them. Consider, for instance, this vessel:

The main lifing portion is an array of six Heavy Areonautic Rocket Devices. These lift a central atomic rocket planetary transfer system, a "Utility Craft: Kerbal System", designed to provide transfer orbits to the inner kerbal system. Finally, the payload, a one-meter deorbiter and lander, the Eve Arrival Spacecraft.

My space program devision lists names by combining the acronyms, starting with the lowest-numbered stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 26, 2012, 04:05:15 pm
Have anybody found kethane outside of Kerbin and it's satellites?

It would be really useful to have refuelling station stations on the other planets.

Working on a spaceplane capable of going another planet without dropping anything. not much luck yet.
should i give up, and make it staged?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2012, 05:25:53 pm
Quote from: ank on September 26, 2012, 04:05:15 pm
Have anybody found kethane outside of Kerbin and it's satellites?

It would be really useful to have refuelling station stations on the other planets.

Working on a spaceplane capable of going another planet without dropping anything. not much luck yet.
should i give up, and make it staged?
The kethane plugin was released for .16, before the other planets existed. They may not have any kethane due to this
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 26, 2012, 05:38:16 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2012, 05:25:53 pm
Quote from: ank on September 26, 2012, 04:05:15 pm
Have anybody found kethane outside of Kerbin and it's satellites?

It would be really useful to have refuelling station stations on the other planets.

Working on a spaceplane capable of going another planet without dropping anything. not much luck yet.
should i give up, and make it staged?
The kethane plugin was released for .16, before the other planets existed. They may not have any kethane due to this
Seeing as kethane is generated randomly, I don't see why it wouldn't generate on new planets either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 26, 2012, 05:43:54 pm
Spoiler: mostly harmless (click to show/hide)

I cheated a bit to get there (nova punch and stuff) but seems totally harmless.

a variant of the space cthulhu destroyed the lander before I got a chance to test the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on September 27, 2012, 01:16:46 am
well, my lander is just fine, but the rocket i put together for it to get to orbit keeps exploding. Needs a redesign.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 05:00:04 am
Loving the cowling and rocket systems from the core pack.

Does anyone know of a good deploy-able solar panel which works with the electricity plugin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on September 27, 2012, 06:41:08 am
What are the most popular mods/add ons right now? I'm intrigued.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 06:49:27 am
Did some experimenting last night with first stage powered by rotary/jet engines. Marginally successful... my heavy lift rotary module was able to raise a payload to 10km with a relatively small amount of fuel and then detached to allow the second stage rocket to continue on. I'm not sure how useful that is though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 27, 2012, 07:28:29 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 06:49:27 am
Did some experimenting last night with first stage powered by rotary/jet engines. Marginally successful... my heavy lift rotary module was able to raise a payload to 10km with a relatively small amount of fuel and then detached to allow the second stage rocket to continue on. I'm not sure how useful that is though.

From my experience, if you need that little bit of boost for your rocket to get more fuel in space, jets are a quick solution.
The only real issue I have had is when using launch stabilizers, and the jets take off too slowly, so the rocket sort of drifts into them, exploding.

Also, that yellow bit poking out of the launch pad tower-thing is really annoying for wide rockets. Some of my rockets just implode the second physics is enabled because of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 07:43:38 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on September 27, 2012, 07:28:29 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 06:49:27 am
Did some experimenting last night with first stage powered by rotary/jet engines. Marginally successful... my heavy lift rotary module was able to raise a payload to 10km with a relatively small amount of fuel and then detached to allow the second stage rocket to continue on. I'm not sure how useful that is though.

From my experience, if you need that little bit of boost for your rocket to get more fuel in space, jets are a quick solution.
The only real issue I have had is when using launch stabilizers, and the jets take off too slowly, so the rocket sort of drifts into them, exploding.

Also, that yellow bit poking out of the launch pad tower-thing is really annoying for wide rockets. Some of my rockets just implode the second physics is enabled because of it.
There's a mod IIRC to remove the launch pad tower entirely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on September 27, 2012, 08:15:37 am
Another solution is to use the launch stabiliser things to raise your ship above the tower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 27, 2012, 08:25:43 am
If yoi rotate the camera 90deg you can move the whole rocket forward clicking the capsule
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 27, 2012, 09:40:19 am
That's not his problem. The jet engines take too long to warm up, so the rocket drifts into the stabilizers.
Solution: put the stabilizers in the second stage, and activate them when the jet engines have warmed up.
A few small boosters might also help with the lift off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 09:46:23 am
There is a JATO module in one of the plugin packs too. Jet Assisted Take Off

Its basically a single burn rocket booster for spaceplanes, sort of. No throttle controls, just enough kick to get you up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 27, 2012, 10:00:20 am
Quote from: Peewee on September 26, 2012, 01:35:36 pm
Quote from: sebcool on September 26, 2012, 09:53:53 am
Remember to add a kethane pump or two if you want to actually move kethane around with it.  :)
That's what the square thing sticking out from the top is. If you add more than one, it gives 'invalid part configuration' or something.

I'm pretty sure you can have multiple pumps and drills on a craft, it's only the scanners and converters that can't have more than one.

Quote from: Chattox on September 27, 2012, 06:41:08 am
What are the most popular mods/add ons right now? I'm intrigued.

The Kethane mod is getting pretty popular.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 27, 2012, 05:00:04 am
Loving the cowling and rocket systems from the core pack.

Does anyone know of a good deploy-able solar panel which works with the electricity plugin?

The satellite pack on this page has one, it actually needs the electricity plugin... It also has a nice ion engine and batteries... And a nice command pod.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It also has the Kethane mod... Damn i link this way too often...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 27, 2012, 10:02:17 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 27, 2012, 08:25:43 am
If yoi rotate the camera 90deg you can move the whole rocket forward clicking the capsule

Alternatively, copy the .craft file from the VAB folder to the SPH folder, load up your rocket in the hangar, and launch from the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 29, 2012, 09:55:48 am
Right, i'll just bump this thread by showing off my newest creation...

KP (Kerb Probe) Adventure...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What's it for, you ask? Well, i'm just planning on sending it to the SUN!!
 Well, lets see how it goes... (I have no pictures of the launch or anything, it was boring anyway)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, that was a success. I managed to get vital info to the engineers to NOT MAKE THEIR SOLAR PROBES OUT OF EXPLODIUM!
Good thing it wasn't manned...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on September 29, 2012, 10:50:12 am
That sun is tiny :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 29, 2012, 12:48:11 pm
Yeah it is  :-\

Probably a technical issue of some sort. A real star would have been much larger, and of course you wouldn't be able to get anywhere near a kilometer of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 29, 2012, 01:14:28 pm
Don't you think it's the altimeter that's messed up?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 29, 2012, 01:29:17 pm
Quote from: greatorder on September 29, 2012, 01:25:15 pm
Quote from: ank on September 29, 2012, 01:14:28 pm
Don't you think it's the altimeter that's messed up?
look at the curvature on the star.

it looks smaller than kerbin.
This. A kilometer above Kerbin and you would only barely see the curvature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 29, 2012, 03:57:28 pm
So.

If I make it into an intercept orbit with Duna after I screw up and knock off a main booster and three tanks of fuel, that's good right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on September 29, 2012, 03:59:27 pm
Now get home again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 29, 2012, 04:01:17 pm
I don't think I'd even have enough fuel to stop if I reached Duna, really. losing everything but the lander didn't do me any favors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on September 29, 2012, 06:20:45 pm
I now have 2 stranded kerbanauts in orbit around Kerbin. Both are in similar models of ship with slight differences. So far, with that model of ship I have exploded 5 ships on the launchpad, 1 ship midflight due to instability, and somehow didn't make orbit with another 10 of them :P So 2 alive, most dead or stranded in the ocean.

I have also been experimenting with the spaceplanes. They are so fun ^_^ I don't want to try any mods yet, just trying to get the hang of the new stuff in the game (just bought it yay!) and have finally landed a single plane out of about 30-40 models. I don't go exploring yet, just trying to get the hang of flyin around >.>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 06:44:23 pm
whish you can retreave the shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on September 29, 2012, 07:02:40 pm
why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 29, 2012, 07:46:32 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 06:44:23 pm
whish you can retreave the shit.
What?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 08:02:42 pm
all the space junk.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 29, 2012, 08:12:09 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 08:02:42 pm
all the space junk.
You can retrieve space junk... you can use landing legs to make 'grippers' and then deorbit the junk so it hits the planet. Or use the robotics mod to make real grab-claws.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 08:31:18 pm
ah... thanks... and now to buy the game!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 29, 2012, 09:22:19 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 08:02:42 pm
all the space junk.

Space junk is a problem as intended. It's a very real problem in reality.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 29, 2012, 09:38:01 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 29, 2012, 09:22:19 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 29, 2012, 08:02:42 pm
all the space junk.

Space junk is a problem as intended. It's a very real problem in reality.
Fortunately its fairly easy to deorbit debris in ksp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on September 29, 2012, 09:40:00 pm
Plus the game doesn't track the miscellaneous debris such as loose screws, bits of insulation, or human waste that ends up a hazard in orbit. Every bit of orbital debris in KSP is a large, trackable object that you can deal with, if you wish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on September 29, 2012, 10:01:42 pm
Or don't deal with to provide a lil bit of a bit of an extra hazard during orbits. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on September 29, 2012, 10:24:57 pm
maybe the "sepratron I" mini rockets could be used somehow to deorbit stages back down to kerbin after seperation...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 29, 2012, 10:31:58 pm
Quote from: Nelia Hawk on September 29, 2012, 10:24:57 pm
maybe the "sepratron I" mini rockets could be used somehow to deorbit stages back down to kerbin after seperation...
Probably. I usually mount a solid booster backwards to do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on September 30, 2012, 12:13:45 am
Yes, sepratrons can quite easily do that; they even activate if you put them in the same stage as a decoupler, so stuff pops off and flies away quite nicely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 30, 2012, 01:58:56 am
I found out that the small hardpoint is just enough to provide space for eight 2m tanks around a central 2m tank. This has been a key part of the Duna Exploration Vessel and Orbiter, and the later Eve Arrival Spacecraft / Utility Craft: Kerbal System.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on September 30, 2012, 03:04:04 am
>.> I disregarded the small hardpoint. Now I think I will need to do as you PTTG and set something like that up too. Man... I haven't even gotten out of the solar system since upgrading to .17 :( I can get JUST into orbit, and then my ship loses power :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shinotsa on September 30, 2012, 10:02:57 pm
Heya, has anyone else successfully landed on Jool intact with the command pod intact? I recently touched down on Eve with a shuttle design and decided that I should next shoot for something with a thicker atmosphere with... surprising results. At the surface I could maintain normal flight at about 10 m/s probably due to the incredibly thick atmosphere, and when I touched down even at such a low speeds the back half of my shuttle was torn off. The debris began spinning rapidly, tearing everything off of the command pod. It eventually settled down, twitching occasionally, but it still wouldn't allow me to go to the space center. I finally had to do an EVA and end flight with a brave kerbal so that I could get out without having to end the mission.

A note for anyone planning on trying this: descent took me about 20 minutes real time from when I hit the atmosphere. I didn't dare accelerate time due to the physics wonkyness. Also, below 10,000m you really have to fly manually, as the constant adjustments made by ASAS aren't made for such a thick atmosphere and as such are fully capable of tearing your shuttle apart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 01, 2012, 12:15:45 am
Quote from: GalenEvil on September 30, 2012, 03:04:04 am
>.> I disregarded the small hardpoint. Now I think I will need to do as you PTTG and set something like that up too. Man... I haven't even gotten out of the solar system since upgrading to .17 :( I can get JUST into orbit, and then my ship loses power :P

You need to put the small hardpoint on top of a normal seperator. It's really twitchy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 01, 2012, 01:51:14 am
Quote from: Shinotsa on September 30, 2012, 10:02:57 pm
Heya, has anyone else successfully landed on Jool intact with the command pod intact? I recently touched down on Eve with a shuttle design and decided that I should next shoot for something with a thicker atmosphere with... surprising results. At the surface I could maintain normal flight at about 10 m/s probably due to the incredibly thick atmosphere, and when I touched down even at such a low speeds the back half of my shuttle was torn off. The debris began spinning rapidly, tearing everything off of the command pod. It eventually settled down, twitching occasionally, but it still wouldn't allow me to go to the space center. I finally had to do an EVA and end flight with a brave kerbal so that I could get out without having to end the mission.

A note for anyone planning on trying this: descent took me about 20 minutes real time from when I hit the atmosphere. I didn't dare accelerate time due to the physics wonkyness. Also, below 10,000m you really have to fly manually, as the constant adjustments made by ASAS aren't made for such a thick atmosphere and as such are fully capable of tearing your shuttle apart.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no-one will ever land on Jool, since it's a gas giant, and therefore has no surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 01, 2012, 02:00:08 am
Quote from: ank on October 01, 2012, 01:51:14 am
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no-one will ever land on Jool, since it's a gas giant, and therefore has no surface.

Im not entirely sure if this applies to Jool as I have not tried myself, but this game tends to implement non-solid space bodies (eg Sun) with a solid, landable invisible surface. If that is the case, it should have a surface and be quite possible to land on it (even if it shouldn't really be possible).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 01, 2012, 02:10:21 am
Somebody needs to go into cheat mode and investigate.
Mod a pod with build-in rockets, unlimited fuel, low mass and high impact resistance.
If your craft is only 1 item, it should be able to survive the physics.

EDIT: Wiki states that there is a solid surface, and it's possible to walk around it in EVA. maybe just land with a command pod with no parachutes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 01, 2012, 10:56:49 am
Gas Giants MIGHT have a surface. It just might be solid metalic hydrogen or pressure-stabalized 10,000 degree carbon or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 01, 2012, 11:02:08 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 01, 2012, 10:56:49 am
Gas Giants MIGHT have a surface. It just might be solid metalic hydrogen or pressure-stabalized 10,000 degree carbon or something.
This.
Gas giants probably have some sort of solid centre, although it wouldn't be feasible to send anything there because of the pressure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 01, 2012, 12:43:00 pm
I tried to make an interplanetary craft. It worked-ish. No explosions but I burnt the assent, transfer stages, and most of the descent stages just getting into orbit (Only 3 engines trying to push all the stages + like 24 fuel tanks into orbit. It goes about 35m/s from 3k to 10k). When I finally got there I was able to burn into a solar orbit/planetary intercept path with Eve but it is hard to tell if I will ever intersect the planet. To increase my chances I put my periphrasis on an intersect with Duna. Even at max speed this is going to take a while.

All that remains of my craft is the "return" vehicle - a pod, parachute, small fuel tank, and Merva (or what ever engine).

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 01, 2012, 04:04:22 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 01, 2012, 12:43:00 pm
I tried to make an interplanetary craft. It worked-ish. No explosions but I burnt the assent, transfer stages, and most of the descent stages just getting into orbit (Only 3 engines trying to push all the stages + like 24 fuel tanks into orbit. It goes about 35m/s from 3k to 10k). When I finally got there I was able to burn into a solar orbit/planetary intercept path with Eve but it is hard to tell if I will ever intersect the planet. To increase my chances I put my periphrasis on an intersect with Duna. Even at max speed this is going to take a while.

All that remains of my craft is the "return" vehicle - a pod, parachute, small fuel tank, and Merva (or what ever engine).
Needs more boosters.
If you can't fix launching with boosters, what can you fix it with?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 01, 2012, 04:06:07 pm
Recalculating thrust:weight ratios and redesigning to make it more efficient?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 01, 2012, 04:09:26 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 01, 2012, 04:06:07 pm
Recalculating thrust:weight ratios and redesigning to make it more efficient?
So... more boosters?
They add more thrust, they add more weight, and they have an efficiency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 01, 2012, 04:19:28 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 01, 2012, 12:43:00 pm
It goes about 35m/s from 3k to 10k).
When I finally got there I was able to burn into a solar orbit/planetary intercept path with Eve but it is hard to tell if I will ever intersect the planet.

well, first of all the less you accelerate the more you lose to gravity drag. if you can set all your engines to fire using a concentric construction, you will obtain a much greater efficiency from the same number of fuel and engines.
Quote from: wiki says
Gravity losses as a proportion of delta-v are minimised if maximum thrust is applied for a short time, or if thrust is applied in a direction perpendicular to the local gravitational field

for the interception, you need this: http://ksp.olex.biz (and a landed vessel that you can use for the 1000x warp, and to prevent !!RAGE!! the space cthulhu fix from 0.17.1 in the future)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 01, 2012, 04:44:45 pm
I threw the craft together just trying to see if I could get to a planet on my first try. I knew it would be heavy but I didn't think it would be THAT heavy.

I know of how to make the ship better, at least I think. I have no idea how to increase my chances of intercepting a planet. My Mun landing plan was always to throw myself into an elliptical orbit around Kerbin that had an Apoptosis at the same altitude (is altitude the right word?) as the Mun and just waiting. This is more complicated when your orbit takes months.

I am 4,500 days into it and haven't run into Eve or Duna yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 01, 2012, 06:46:12 pm
Theoretically, adding additional fuel (in boosters or in tanks) will continue to add delta-v as long as three conditions are met. First, the rocket's thrust must be greater than it's own weight. Second, you don't waste it by carrying your empties for too long. Third, you rocket remains structurally sound. If you happen to be adding boosters to the bottom of your stacks, the first two should not be issues until you hit critical weight.

Trivia: The Space Shuttle actually weighed slightly more on the launchpad than its peak thrust, but the fuel burned warming up the engines made it light enough to take off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 03:38:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 01, 2012, 04:19:28 pm
well, first of all the less you accelerate the more you lose to gravity drag. if you can set all your engines to fire using a concentric construction, you will obtain a much greater efficiency from the same number of fuel and engines.
Quote from: wiki says
Gravity losses as a proportion of delta-v are minimised if maximum thrust is applied for a short time, or if thrust is applied in a direction perpendicular to the local gravitational field

So the trick is to find the sweetspot between gravity drag and air resistance?
What acceleration is optimal in the lower atmosphere?
And what about higher up?

and why doesn't the craft have an accelerometer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 04:11:10 am
pretty much. an intense burn at start, a conservative 150/200 m/s speed up to the 1/3 of the atmos, then burn as a madman.

if you have enough power, you should burn vertically to reach a 80km ap and then horizontally to reach orbital speed at the latest time;
usually you have to start horizontal burn early: if you can accellerate 3m/s^2 and orbital speed is 3000m/s, you will need 1000s just to reach orbital velocity, more if you're not burning horizontally*.

the trick is the balance of this.

btw, yes it has an accelerometer, it is the g meter on the right.


*I may have messed this up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 05:52:05 am
Hmm, I just tested this using a small rocket.
test 1: Burn constantly at max power.
test 2: Burn until a velocity of 160m/s is reached, throttle down to maintain speed until 1/3 atmosphere(there darkest blue bar), then gun it.
test 3: My usual method. Burn at max until apoasis of 65km is reached. Then burn once outside of atmosphere.

Results:
test 1: 1394km altitude
test 2: 560km altitude
test 3: 630km altitude

It seems clear then, that gravity drag is a much higher factor than air resistance in KSP.

And we can conclude that burning burning everything at max thrust is the way to go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 05:56:59 am
yes, gravity drag is lower if you burn the most at the lowest altitude possible.

but you are not going up to reach orbit  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 02, 2012, 06:49:03 am
I've been mucking around with SSTO space planes. Best so far has been 2200m/s orbit velocity at 70km. Soo close. Yet so far. Also landing stability leaves much to be desired due to weight concentration at the rear.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 07:13:19 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 05:56:59 am
yes, gravity drag is lower if you burn the most at the lowest altitude possible.

but you are not going up to reach orbit  :P

This was to get a straight up measurement, so I could compare.

In the case of getting into orbit you would ofc burn perpendicular once you reach 60km.
This test could also be done as most fuel left at 60km, but would show the same(though not as extreme differences).

The best method for reaching orbit is as far as I can tell:
Burn like a madman until 60km apoasis is reached, then burn perpendicular, throttling the engine only wastes fuel.
Maybe you need to go from prograde to perpendicular in a fluid motion.(seems to be the way NASA does it)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 07:41:27 am
they do it gradually so gravity turns the craft instead of angling the engines, which wastes dV

gravity drag stops being relevant once you're in orbit, at which point you need not to burn anymore to compensate the craft dropping, so no, the nose up altitude test isn't relevant.

the fact that you need to burn at maximum as soon as possible is correct, but also depend on your craft. if you have enough booster to propel you at 200m/s or more, you can use the booster alone and use the fuel engine after boosting and at start when v < 100m/s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 08:39:10 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 07:41:27 am
they do it gradually so gravity turns the craft instead of angling the engines, which wastes dV

gravity drag stops being relevant once you're in orbit, at which point you need not to burn anymore to compensate the craft dropping, so no, the nose up altitude test isn't relevant.

the fact that you need to burn at maximum as soon as possible is correct, but also depend on your craft. if you have enough booster to propel you at 200m/s or more, you can use the booster alone and use the fuel engine after boosting and at start when v < 100m/s

I beg to differ. I'd like to see a test where this is the case.

The altitude test is appropriate because we can just imagine any thrust over 60km to be perpendicular instead. the thing is measuring your altitude is easier than remaining fuel.

The point is finding the method that leaves you with the most fuel at 60km, which is the minimum altitude you can get a stable orbit, after that, yes gravity drag is not an issue.

If the test was redone with an orbital manoeuvre in the end (with a bigger craft) I doubt the results would be different.

on top of that, I cannot recall a space launch that did not fire in on continuous burn(besides waiting for stages to separate).

going to make the same test with boosters and see.

EDIT: tested it with boosters bringing it up to exactly 200m/s with boosters alone, and it does work!
Craft went to 7600km with everything firing from the start, and got to 3000m/s at peak velocity.
But the one where the main engine was fired after the boosters, got out of Kerbins soi and reached a peak velocity of 3300m/s

so above some speed limit in the lower atmosphere it gets inefficient. I think this limit is above 200m/s though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 02, 2012, 09:36:19 am
Atmos drag is related to speed; gravity drops off with distance. The optimal speed in atmos for a craft is one such that increasing speed results in atmos drag which is greater than the decrease in a sum of gravitational pull from the decreased distance and where decreasing the speed results in the increase in force from additional gravitation being larger than the decrease in atmos drag.

That is to say, there isn't just one number, but you want to be as close to whatever it happens to be at any given moment for optimal launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 02, 2012, 09:58:54 am
Quote from: alway on October 02, 2012, 09:36:19 am
Atmos drag is related to speed; gravity drops off with distance. The optimal speed in atmos for a craft is one such that increasing speed results in atmos drag which is greater than the decrease in a sum of gravitational pull from the decreased distance and where decreasing the speed results in the increase in force from additional gravitation being larger than the decrease in atmos drag.

That is to say, there isn't just one number, but you want to be as close to whatever it happens to be at any given moment for optimal launch.
This is what happened to my head whilst attempting to read that sentence:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 10:47:15 am
Quote from: ank on October 02, 2012, 08:39:10 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 07:41:27 am
they do it gradually so gravity turns the craft instead of angling the engines, which wastes dV

gravity drag stops being relevant once you're in orbit, at which point you need not to burn anymore to compensate the craft dropping, so no, the nose up altitude test isn't relevant.

the fact that you need to burn at maximum as soon as possible is correct, but also depend on your craft. if you have enough booster to propel you at 200m/s or more, you can use the booster alone and use the fuel engine after boosting and at start when v < 100m/s


EDIT: tested it with boosters bringing it up to exactly 200m/s with boosters alone, and it does work!
Craft went to 7600km with everything firing from the start, and got to 3000m/s at peak velocity.
But the one where the main engine was fired after the boosters, got out of Kerbins soi and reached a peak velocity of 3300m/s
.

Told ya :P

Nice to have it tested, good work on that!

Earth launches are limited by load, I think. The profile nasa did for a 10g launch differs quite a bit and actually throttles engines.

I have the graph somewhere...

Edit: here http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/mission/accelerationProfile.jpg
And it was 4g.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on October 02, 2012, 11:05:23 am
I can't access your link.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 02, 2012, 11:21:55 am
It probably doesn't accept external referrals, but if you copy and paste the url, it works. At least, it worked for me.

On topic, the NASA profile is likely near optimal for real world conditions, but determining the acceleration profile for a specific rocket might be tricky. Not to mention, you can actually get a higher apoapsis if you level off earlier, due to the effects of your vector on gravity drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 12:21:33 pm
Looking at that graph there is a sudden drop in G, followed by an exponential climb.
That looks a lot like the graph you would get from going full throttle, then dropping off solid rockets, then as gravity drag and air resistance decrease you get more G.
Mind you i don't know what rocket this is, or if it's the space shuttle or what.

In KSP I i think the game handles mass and drag with proportion, so that something weighing 2 tonnes have twice the drag of something weighing 1 ton.
If this is true, then the golden number should always be the same for all crafts, since surface area is not a factor.

And if it's the same for all ships, then it should be possible to find that golden number:
Onwards dwarves scientists! we must uncover this mystery!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 12:24:22 pm
It is a theoretical rocket with infinite twr climbing earth.

You get the 4g limit for humans to live and the drop is throttling to save fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 02, 2012, 12:34:57 pm
By the way, if you want proof that gravity turns give more delta-v, I did some tests with my demo copy of KSP. My SSTO test rocket on full burn, straight up, gave me an apoapsis of 1630 km, with a very eccentric orbit. It took me a couple of tries, but one flight profile (full burn with a gradual gravity turn) managed to get an apoapsis of 1988 km, in a more circular orbit. Granted, the 1988 flight had an periapsis below ground level, but not by much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 01:24:20 pm
I think pre .17 have a bug on fuel consumption so that it is non linear
100% throttle -> 100% fuel -> 100% power
10% throttle -> 1% fuel -> 10% power

don't know when it was introduced first and if demo is affected
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 02, 2012, 01:40:36 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2012, 01:24:20 pm
I think pre .17 have a bug on fuel consumption so that it is non linear
100% throttle -> 100% fuel -> 100% power
10% throttle -> 1% fuel -> 10% power

don't know when it was introduced first and if demo is affected
Introduced in .16, fixed in .17, demo not affected.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 02, 2012, 01:50:11 pm
So the rocket in that graph only burns for like 5 seconds? then throttles down to almost nothing, I assume just maintaining speed? then throttles slowly up.

Some Newtonian calculations gives us a speed of 196m/s when the throttle down happens.(assuming burning for 5 sec at 4 G)
We need to find that number in KSP. Anybody know what math KSP uses to determine air resistance and gravity drag?

More testing will be required!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 02, 2012, 01:57:48 pm
No, I was on full burn until fuel ran out, on every test flight. When I said 'leveling off', I meant that I turned towards horizontal as I gained altitude. I guess I was using the term incorrectly, I should have been calling it a pitch over maneuver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_turn#Launch_procedure). Leveling off is when you make the final turn towards horizontal.

I really recommend using gravity turns if you are worried about fuel consumption during lift offs and landings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 04, 2012, 12:10:19 am
Heh, i just saw thagt reliant robin episode of top gear, it's KSP to a tee, including bodgy backyard rocketry, a short guy, a stupid launch failure, and a bigass explosion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 04, 2012, 12:31:23 am
And a reliant robin 

The faces of the rocketry club people! Awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 04, 2012, 01:22:27 am
Ugh, spaceplanes are endlessly frustrating. I start with one that flies quite well, and just generally works, but it has insufficient fuel to make it to orbit.

I add more fuel tanks, adjust accordingly to maintain balance... then discover that it inexplicably doesn't drain fuel correctly, with the left front tank emptying before the right front, and the craft spiraling out of control.

Cue reworking fuel lines... and testing, and reworking, over and over. I disassembled the entire thing, removed every fuel line, put it back together and it still didn't work.

I finally give up and just fly with a few less lines, it's less efficient but it "works". I'm not sure if I put it all back together right, because now it's highly twitchy and doesn't fly well. After a few crashes, I get going and discover I still don't have enough fuel for orbit. Commence crying.

At least I got a nice screenshot out of it, though!

Spoiler: Screenshot (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 05:49:23 am
Quote from: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nonsense, no such thing.
If anything, I'd say the space section needs MORE BOOSTERS. Unless there's no problems, then that's fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 04, 2012, 07:25:41 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 05:49:23 am
Quote from: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nonsense, no such thing.
If anything, I'd say the space section needs MORE BOOSTERS. Unless there's no problems, then that's fine.
There's no "overdoing it" in KSP. Just "Fire the engines!" and "Hit the next stage!".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 07:34:16 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 04, 2012, 07:25:41 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 05:49:23 am
Quote from: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nonsense, no such thing.
If anything, I'd say the space section needs MORE BOOSTERS. Unless there's no problems, then that's fine.
There's no "overdoing it" in KSP. Just "Fire the engines!" and "Hit the next stage!".
Let's not forget the ever-present "Add more struts!" either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on October 04, 2012, 07:39:38 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 07:34:16 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 04, 2012, 07:25:41 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 04, 2012, 05:49:23 am
Quote from: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nonsense, no such thing.
If anything, I'd say the space section needs MORE BOOSTERS. Unless there's no problems, then that's fine.
There's no "overdoing it" in KSP. Just "Fire the engines!" and "Hit the next stage!".
Let's not forget the ever-present "Add more struts!" either.

If anything is needed, it is the fact that it needs to be upploaded somewhere so we all can enjoy your creation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 04, 2012, 08:15:56 am
It's an abandoned design, since all the interest I'll tinker some more with it... needs more engines!
but if anybody is interested in getting the damn thing to work i can just upload that version
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 04, 2012, 11:42:52 am
More boosters and more engines for more fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 04, 2012, 02:08:34 pm
and more control systems. and then more boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on October 05, 2012, 02:11:01 am
Quote from: ank on October 04, 2012, 04:14:03 am
I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Holy mother of badass. That thing is awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 05, 2012, 05:05:01 am
By popular demand:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxTfm5mm5_SwV3pENFhKZmhwdlk (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxTfm5mm5_SwV3pENFhKZmhwdlk)

This version have a very hard time lifting off.
I'm working on a better version and will upload later.

EDIT: much better version now, I fitted takeoff assist rockets, since taking off was a matter of luck.
Added more engines, rockets, fuel tanks, and struts as requested :)

Just after launch:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In orbit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plenty of fuel left for reaching any planet, maybe enough to reach Duna and actually come back.
We'll see.
Here is the craft file:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxTfm5mm5_SwOW40TklqMjJkNlU (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxTfm5mm5_SwOW40TklqMjJkNlU)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2012, 07:41:59 am
Today I discovered that directly attaching tanks to each other side-to-side leads to explosions, and decouplers should be used even if you don't plan on decoupling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 05, 2012, 08:31:32 am
Quote from: Japa on October 05, 2012, 07:41:59 am
Today I discovered that directly attaching tanks to each other side-to-side leads to explosions, and decouplers should be used even if you don't plan on decoupling.

Some tanks can get away with it on some smaller designs, but yeah, it's generally better to use decouplers or something if you can. I know the large tanks are particularly bad about it. But it's not consistent, from what I can tell. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2012, 08:44:46 am
Either way, got this now:

(http://i.imgur.com/u6f0f.jpg)

Theoretically can make it to any other planet, but my piloting sucks, so I always end up drifting in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on October 05, 2012, 07:46:28 pm
Quote from: Japa on October 05, 2012, 08:44:46 am
Either way, got this now:

*snip*

Theoretically can make it to any other planet, but my piloting sucks, so I always end up drifting in space.
That's pretty impressive. I love how some ships in this game can look absolutley amazing.

*steals design*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2012, 09:55:25 pm
Note that this thing is absolutely terrible, lag-wise, and the altimiter generally just gives up and goes home. (Seriously, it just goes blank)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2012, 10:41:04 pm
So how do I get from here to Jool?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 05, 2012, 10:56:04 pm
Hard to tell for sure, but waiting an orbit or 3 might be the first step. After you see how fast your orbit goes compared to Jool's you can try to estimate whether you'll come close to intercepting it on a future orbit, if not then try to adjust. If you can do it right that would be the most fuel efficient option, using Jool's gravity to pull you in to it's orbit. Alternatively, you could try to make your orbit similar to jool's just slightly bigger or smaller and wait till you get as l close as possible before burning towards it in an attempt to intercept. This is probably the least fuel efficient option and guaranteed to take more time than a successful intercept from your current orbit would... but a failed intercept from your current orbit would take a hell of a lot more time than even that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 05, 2012, 11:00:31 pm
You may remember the flap-based rotating ships from earlier versions. As it turns out, you can create them such that they can get up to around 3500m/s in med-high atmos (10km+). Enough to put you on an intercept with either of the 2 nearest planets. Without a single engine.

Though actually intercepting the planets is another matter, as you then don't have any way of altering your orbit in space. :P

So yeah; a purely control-surface powered craft can send you to another planet.

Though they use about 200-250 struts and you need to be very careful in low-altitudes, as it will accelerate so fast it flies apart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 06, 2012, 04:03:47 am
Quote from: Japa on October 05, 2012, 10:41:04 pm
So how do I get from here to Jool?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sadly, I think you gotta give up, and launch again.
Planetary interception is so tricky, you either get it on the first try or you don't(Jool especially).
There is an interactive planetary transfer guide on the KSP forums:
http://ksp.olex.biz/ (http://ksp.olex.biz/)
fell free to ask if you don't understand the numbers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2012, 07:24:57 am
You can get a plugin that does angle for you. There is one that get angles wrong, so beware

Duna is easier, however
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 06, 2012, 07:26:15 am
Yeah, I did give up, and failed to crash into the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on October 06, 2012, 07:31:49 am
Japa have you tried MechJeb or/protractor?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 06, 2012, 08:10:06 am
Nooooo!

Not going into mods just yet. Would rather see what I can manage with vanilla.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2012, 08:13:17 am
The problem in timing transfer is that while you're orbiting at 100km you can't use super warp

If you keep another craft alive in space, you can switch to that while you wait for angles to align. Or you can wait at launchpad, duna is not that sensible to angles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 06, 2012, 08:35:57 am
well, I just bring my orbit to 600km... the other options are more efficient though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2012, 08:41:59 am
Well I can't build a rocket that can circularize at 600km with enough fuel for a return trip from duna.

Or better, i can but my computer dies trying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 06, 2012, 08:45:28 am
Yeah, with my big rocket, I can't actually control my rocket till midway through the second stage because of lag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2012, 10:55:36 am
I'm trying to run two mission together to duna...

I waited till it was in position, then launched two craft. one is in orbit at 100km waiting for the ejection angle. the other is now moving to mun: it will circularize at the periapsis of the encounter, then wait for its injection window from there.

I want to see if the mun speed can push me to duna with less dV, but it will depend if circularizing at mun is more or less efficient than avoiding it.

then they will fly together to duna, and if I'm luky enough one may also return  :P


but first: savescumming  :D :D

I wonoder if I can put that save here as a scenario?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 06, 2012, 03:10:46 pm
I wonder, can the extensive use of MechJeb be called cheating? It makes launches and orbit corrections a lot easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 06, 2012, 03:14:40 pm
I consider anything not vanilla KSP to be cheating, but that's just me.

calculators and stuff are fine, in my oppinion, as long as they don't connect to the game.

speaking of...

Spoiler: Godspeed. *Salut* (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2012, 03:15:45 pm
since parts are all messy and guidance is planned to make an entrance in game anyway, it isn't that much relevant.

however, at least one kerbal - mun and return manual flight is extremely instructive on learning what's going on...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 06, 2012, 05:16:58 pm
Made a little vertical boosted shuttle..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Would be nice if we had some plane parts which were actual rocket fuel (infact, the whole fuel system changed so jet fuel and different fuel types were separate)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 06, 2012, 08:12:02 pm
On that topic, i'm getting excited in anticipation of what the feature list for .18 will be, which will presumably released sometime this week (the list, not the update)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 03:12:10 am
I'm still waiting for 17.1 so that rockets don't randomly explode out of warp :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 04:36:46 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 03:12:10 am
I'm still waiting for 17.1 so that rockets don't randomly explode out of warp :P
Should work fine if you gradually step the warp up and down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 07, 2012, 04:57:34 am
I hope the developers will fix the constantly crashing Tracking Station soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 05:02:16 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 04:36:46 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 03:12:10 am
I'm still waiting for 17.1 so that rockets don't randomly explode out of warp :P
Should work fine if you gradually step the warp up and down.

You're assuming I've a brain! truth is I'm usually late for maneuvers and smash the warp keys as there is no tomorrow

tracking station is given to be fixed, as the parachutes not deploying if you open them and warp.


edit:

sooooo...
Spoiler: approaching duna (click to show/hide)

in this approach I got the duna moon in the way. to use it to slow down, which direction should I encounter it? should I pass ahead of it or behind?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 07, 2012, 07:24:42 am
Unless you intend to lithobrake, it would be wiser to aerobrake through Duna's atmosphere instead, as it doesn't really have enough gravity to do the trick from that angle. If it were coming toward you, it might be able to slow you down slightly, but at that angle, anything you do will either increase your (duna-based) orbital speed, or redirect you almost directly away from the planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 07, 2012, 07:57:29 am
Yeah, slingshotting is pretty simple, in theory. If you want to speed up, you want to be moving in roughly the same direction as the body you're slingshotting with. The gain you get being pulled in by its gravity will be greater than what you lose trying to leave it. Especially if you enter the sphere of influence from a significantly different angle than the slingshot body's orbit.

The same goes for slowing down. You want to exit the slingshot body's sphere of influence going in roughly the opposite direction of its orbit. In that case it's gravity pulling on you as you leave will be greater than the gain you get from its gravity pulling you in.

As said, the velocity you gain or lose depends heavily upon how massive the object you're slingshotting with is. Don't expect much from a tiny little moon. Even the Mun can usually only give you 300-400 m/s of acceleration per pass, and that's under ideal circumstance. Your angle is not really ideal and your speed is way too different from Duna's to be changed efficiently by gravity alone. I'd agree to try for an aerobrake manuever in Duna's atmosphere. That seems like your best bet, but even then, you're going to have to dip pretty deep in there and endure a decent number of G's since your relative velocity with duna, (at least a good 2000 m/s or more, depending on the exact angle.) and the thin atmosphere of Duna could make it easy to just shoot right through if you don't go deep enough to slow down enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 07, 2012, 12:54:40 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 07, 2012, 07:57:29 am
... The gain you get being pulled in by its gravity will be greater than what you lose trying to leave it. Especially if you enter the sphere of influence from a significantly different angle than the slingshot body's orbit.

The same goes for slowing down. You want to exit the slingshot body's sphere of influence going in roughly the opposite direction of its orbit. In that case it's gravity pulling on you as you leave will be greater than the gain you get from its gravity pulling you in.

As said, the velocity you gain or lose depends heavily upon how massive the object you're slingshotting with is. Don't expect much from a tiny little moon. Even the Mun can usually only give you 300-400 m/s of acceleration per pass, and that's under ideal circumstance.
I find most of points in your post are untrue.
Since Im bad at explaining things I would like to point you out to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist).

In short energy gained through gravity slingshot comes not from net gravitational pull, witch stays roughly the same (hence we can have stable elliptical orbits) but from second body speed in a given reference frame. For example of when slingshotting a planet going around the sun, both craft and planet exchange orbital energy (speed) in solar reference frame. In an ideal 180deg turn (with zero spacecraft weight) spacecraft gains double of planets orbital velocity.
Also smaller planets/moons does not give less speed due to smaller mass but usually due to orbit constraints. The smaller the object's mass the lower the pass altitude, witch is constrained by object's surface radius.

Hope this helps somehow, maybe ill edit to be more clear when I'm back at home.

Also @ LoSboccacc   areobrake is your best option i think, from personal experience dunes atmosphere effects on spacecraft are similar to kerbals at 1/2 altitude so a pass below 17.000 meters would slow the craft enough for immediate landing. 20.000 to 25.000 should give you elliptical orbit around Duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 07, 2012, 01:10:41 pm
All I know about gravity slingshots is that I accidentally used one to escape the Kolar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 01:34:45 pm
there are two effect at work here:

one is the deflection that a planet does on your trajectory: you're exchanging eccentricity for apoapsis. this happens both if you gain or if you lose energy (speed)

one is the gain or loss of energy (speed) that happens as you are accellerated toward the planet. this changes your speed as you exit the planet soi, and you gain or lose depending on the entry/exit position relative to your direction. this is independent to your change in eccentricity (you can lose apoapsis height but gain speed - raise pe)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on October 07, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
Hey fellas, has anyone sucessfully created an airplane capable of going into orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 03:18:20 pm
you should post a definition, there are planes that went to minmus and back but using non aerial engines :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 07, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
Also keep in mind that KSP isn't a perfect simulation. If you fly towards a big object, your speed increases, but when you fly away, it doesn't decrease by the same amount, because you're travelling faster, and therefore leaving the gravity field of the planet faster, causing the game to register less gravitationall slowdown.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 07, 2012, 03:33:54 pm
Quote from: peskyninja on October 07, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
Hey fellas, has anyone sucessfully created an airplane capable of going into orbit?

Yes multiple times.
A few pages back I have posted a plane that can reach any planet. also pictures.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 03:38:04 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 07, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
Also keep in mind that KSP isn't a perfect simulation. If you fly towards a big object, your speed increases, but when you fly away, it doesn't decrease by the same amount, because you're travelling faster, and therefore leaving the gravity field of the planet faster, causing the game to register less gravitationall slowdown.
Isn't that how you pick up speed on gravity slingshots?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 07, 2012, 03:44:24 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 03:38:04 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 07, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
Also keep in mind that KSP isn't a perfect simulation. If you fly towards a big object, your speed increases, but when you fly away, it doesn't decrease by the same amount, because you're travelling faster, and therefore leaving the gravity field of the planet faster, causing the game to register less gravitationall slowdown.
Isn't that how you pick up speed on gravity slingshots?
Yup, don't know how you can use it to slow down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 07, 2012, 03:57:23 pm
Quote from: Nao on October 07, 2012, 12:54:40 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 07, 2012, 07:57:29 am
... The gain you get being pulled in by its gravity will be greater than what you lose trying to leave it. Especially if you enter the sphere of influence from a significantly different angle than the slingshot body's orbit.

The same goes for slowing down. You want to exit the slingshot body's sphere of influence going in roughly the opposite direction of its orbit. In that case it's gravity pulling on you as you leave will be greater than the gain you get from its gravity pulling you in.

As said, the velocity you gain or lose depends heavily upon how massive the object you're slingshotting with is. Don't expect much from a tiny little moon. Even the Mun can usually only give you 300-400 m/s of acceleration per pass, and that's under ideal circumstance.
I find most of points in your post are untrue.
Since Im bad at explaining things I would like to point you out to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist).

In short energy gained through gravity slingshot comes not from net gravitational pull, witch stays roughly the same (hence we can have stable elliptical orbits) but from second body speed in a given reference frame. For example of when slingshotting a planet going around the sun, both craft and planet exchange orbital energy (speed) in solar reference frame. In an ideal 180deg turn (with zero spacecraft weight) spacecraft gains double of planets orbital velocity.
Also smaller planets/moons does not give less speed due to smaller mass but usually due to orbit constraints. The smaller the object's mass the lower the pass altitude, witch is constrained by object's surface radius.

Hope this helps somehow, maybe ill edit to be more clear when I'm back at home.

Also @ LoSboccacc   areobrake is your best option i think, from personal experience dunes atmosphere effects on spacecraft are similar to kerbals at 1/2 altitude so a pass below 17.000 meters would slow the craft enough for immediate landing. 20.000 to 25.000 should give you elliptical orbit around Duna.

I might have explained it poorly, but with regards to the effects it's not untrue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 07, 2012, 04:05:19 pm
@NAO
After reading up on the subject I can completely concur:
Maximum Delta-V -+ from slingshot are twice the planet/moons velocity!
Amazing... this might actually enable us to get back from Eve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 07, 2012, 04:40:08 pm
Eh, some of you don't seem to get it, so here's a few diagrams to help :)

Imagine a Hohmann transfer to Duna. The circle around Duna represents its sphere of influence.
(http://i.imgur.com/6R2iQ.png)
Left: Hohmann transfer
Right: Entering Duna's SoI

When the craft enters Duna's SoI, you transfer to a different reference frame.
(http://i.imgur.com/jKIq1.png)
Left: Kerbol reference frame
Center: Vector math, Woo!
Right: Duna reference frame

The Duna-centric orbit is obviously hyperbolic, so let's draw an approximation of that, assuming you don't interact with the local moon...
(http://i.imgur.com/ofXI7.png)

Since the craft isn't changing its orbital energy relative to Duna, it will be going the same speed when it leaves Duna's SoI.
Upon leaving Duna's SoI, you have to change reference frames back to Kerbol.
(note: Duna will have moved slightly around Kerbol, but it's not significant over the course of this craft's interaction)
(http://i.imgur.com/jru4c.png)
Left: Duna reference frame
Center: More vector math, yay!
Right: Kerbol reference frame

You'll notice that the exit velocity is significantly larger than the entry velocity.
(note: IRL, the net energy the same, because Duna would have lost the same energy being pulled toward the craft as the craft gained by being pulled toward Duna.)
That means your Kerbol orbit has more energy, so your orbit has been raised.
(http://imgur.com/mh5eF.png)
If you exit Duna's orbit going a different direction, your Kerbol-centric orbit will end up different.

Any questions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 07, 2012, 05:10:59 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 07, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
Also keep in mind that KSP isn't a perfect simulation. If you fly towards a big object, your speed increases, but when you fly away, it doesn't decrease by the same amount, because you're travelling faster, and therefore leaving the gravity field of the planet faster, causing the game to register less gravitationall slowdown.
This effect in KSP is only true because of rounding when counting very big numbers at finite intervals (the space kraken), it will not be noticeable at all during normal flights.

I would like to point out that when you are in planets plane of reference while performing slingshot you are doing an orbital (usually parabolic) pass there is no net gain or loss of speed. The fact that you gained energy (flying faster) is only in sun's frame of reference. Gravitational slingshot does not use gravitation of a planet as a way to add energy only as a means of changing vectors, the energy added is in a sun frame of reference (energy added for craft is subtracted from planets orbital energy) and suns gravitation stays roughly the same since distance from it almost constant during this maneuver.

@sluissa I just wanted to clarify how the actual slingshot works, you were right about it's effects. Sorry for bad wording it. I think Peewee will do a better work at it when he finishes. =3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 07, 2012, 05:12:08 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 07, 2012, 05:07:55 pm
tried using the 'preview' button?

Having network issues at the moment, I just want to avoid double posting or getting stuck trying to send the whole post.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 05:48:33 pm
Quote from: Peewee on October 07, 2012, 05:12:08 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 07, 2012, 05:07:55 pm
tried using the 'preview' button?

Having network issues at the moment, I just want to avoid double posting or getting stuck trying to send the whole post.
Edit post in document instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 07, 2012, 05:50:40 pm
Meh. It's done now anyway. Maybe I should set up another one to show how to slow down using the same setup...
Good grief that took me an hour?! Bleh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 07, 2012, 06:14:42 pm
As a side note, repeated gravity slingshotting is how we sent the voyager probes out of the solar system. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Voyager_2_velocity_vs_distance_from_sun.svg&page=1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 10:22:35 pm
Please do I can't wrap my head on how to enter/exit soi to slow down

Also: can't all these tiny tibids of tutorials/explanations/examples be added or linked in the opening post?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 07, 2012, 10:43:58 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 10:22:35 pm
Please do I can't wrap my head on how to enter/exit soi to slow down

Also: can't all these tiny tibids of tutorials/explanations/examples be added or linked in the opening post?

There are a bunch of helpful tutorials in-game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 08, 2012, 12:26:30 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 10:22:35 pm
Please do I can't wrap my head on how to enter/exit soi to slow down

Also: can't all these tiny tibids of tutorials/explanations/examples be added or linked in the opening post?

Just approach from behind the planet to slow down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 08, 2012, 01:01:10 am
After spending some time doing the two tutorials, I got a lot better. I feel smarter too!

Managed to make my first mun landing soon after. It's very easy once you know how to control your orbital ring. Just throw the ring out there a good 45 degrees ahead of the moon, wait until you hit the SoI, burn retrograde until you go from slingshotting past it to orbiting it, then bring down your orbital ring so it intersects the light side of the mun! So simple, even a human could do it!

I swear, half the issue was learning what those things meant, but once I did it turned out what looked really complex was really just putting on the thrust when you get near certain symbols on the map/navball.

Edit:

Quick question; what's the most fuel efficient way to get into orbit? What I've been doing is shooting straight upwards until I'm out of the atmosphere, then prograding when I get to the periapsis. It seems to guzzle a ton of fuel and the periapsis quickly moves away...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 04:33:07 am
http://imgur.com/a/8s5le#15

I'm amused on how other people can manage to change planet starting with that little fuel.

I used 3*4*3 3mt double tanks to get a lander in position for Duna....  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 08, 2012, 08:53:35 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on October 08, 2012, 01:01:10 am
Edit:

Quick question; what's the most fuel efficient way to get into orbit? What I've been doing is shooting straight upwards until I'm out of the atmosphere, then prograding when I get to the periapsis. It seems to guzzle a ton of fuel and the periapsis quickly moves away...
Oh man, we had several pages discussing this:
For the most efficient launch to orbit you have to:
Burn max until you reach about 200m/s. (this is the optimal tradeoff between gravity drag and air resistance)
Then throttle down to about 20%.
Then slowly throttle up while gravity turning towards 90 degrees(in case you want to transfer to a planet further out than Kerbal, if you want to go closer to the sun, pick 270 degrees.

Gravity turning means using gravity to turn the craft from straight up to the horizon.
Then burn prograde until you have an orbit, as you already know.

The most efficient fuel to thrust ration is having your craft barely moving at launch, then faster and faster as the ship drops weight.

Thanks to LoSboccacc!
I would never have realized the truth of the things I just posted, without your persistence in the face of my stupidity :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 08, 2012, 09:13:04 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2012, 10:22:35 pm
Please do I can't wrap my head on how to enter/exit soi to slow down

You have to be going at least close to the same speed as the planet you're slingshotting around, because you have to catch up to it in order to exit at the correct angle.

Sorry, couldn't be bothered to MSpaint some figures with the vectors and everything, have some screenshots instead.
http://imgur.com/a/tVqMF
1. Setting up an encounter... The purple orbit here is pretty close to the craft's, because it only barely enters Duna's SoI. (note the PE above Kerbin orbit, and the AP significantly higher than Duna orbit)
2. Getting closer and adjusting the orbit (only needed to spend ~50 m/s here)
3. Periapsis = 49km? Close enough! I would have preferred going a little lower, but then I'd have risked losing significant momentum to Duna's atmosphere.
4. Showing the angles relative to Duna's orbit
5. Post-slingshot orbit (several years later because I forgot to take a picture immediately, and I was trying to see if it would ever get close enough to Kerbin to send it home)
Note that the AP has moved down to almost exactly Duna's orbit, and the PE has moved down below Kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 09:14:46 am
Quote from: ank on October 08, 2012, 08:53:35 am
Then slowly throttle up while gravity turning towards 90 degrees(in case you want to transfer to a planet further out than Kerbal, if you want to go closer to the sun, pick 270 degrees.

this single point is debatable  :P

to shoot inward, you can get into the standard 90 deg orbit, and start your escape burn while moving 'inward' the system (that is, if you need to launch at 180* deg in retrograde to reach moho, you can launch at 0 deg in prograde for the same effects)

*making angles up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 08, 2012, 09:43:47 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on October 08, 2012, 01:01:10 am
Quick question; what's the most fuel efficient way to get into orbit? What I've been doing is shooting straight upwards until I'm out of the atmosphere, then prograding when I get to the periapsis. It seems to guzzle a ton of fuel and the periapsis quickly moves away...
I can't find relevant challenge thread in KSP forums for a video and discussion on the topic, I'll just post my way witch is close within 1% of record lowest fuel used to orbit.

1. burn at max thrust (make a craft with take-off thrust to weigh ratio at around 1.3)
2. lower thrust a little (or jettison empty acceleration stage) when reaching 85-100 m/s (not more than 100m/s below 1000m)
3. continue upwards (90deg pitch) to around 8000m and 150-180m/s
4. start turning at around 8500m, do it slowly, so that you don't have more than 70-60deg pitch below 12km-15km or 200-250m/s
5. if you had lowered thrust earlier make sure to be at 100% above 12000m
6. 45deg pitch should be around 20km and 350m/s (roughly - as it depends heavily on craft design, generally less power - stepper initial climb)
7. stop rotation around 30deg and use pitch changes to get 35-50km Apoapsis.
8. at around 50km Ap (while still climbing) burn 0deg pitch until Ap of 70-80km and turn off the engines
9. around 40-20s before Ap, burn to circularize orbit

... suddenly replies, replies everywhere (I'm such a slow poster >_<)

Quote from: ank on October 08, 2012, 08:53:35 am
Burn max until you reach about 200m/s. (this is the optimal tradeoff between gravity drag and air resistance)
Then throttle down to about 20%.
Then slowly throttle up while gravity turning towards 90 degrees(in case you want to transfer to a planet further out than Kerbal, if you want to go closer to the sun, pick 270 degrees.

Gravity turning means using gravity to turn the craft from straight up to the horizon.
Then burn prograde until you have an orbit, as you already know.
Try using Mechjeb's ascent autopilot and you'll see that he keeps speed under 100m/s at lower altitudes due to drag i think just for vertical ascent it uses the most efficient way possible.
As LoSboccacc also pointed out you can go to any planet from almost any orbit, when launching 270deg you are burning more fuel to get to orbit since Kerth is rotating.
Also gravity turning does not "use" gravity to turn >_< idk who thought that term was good as it confuses most people. You just use kinetic energy of going upwards to give time to accelerate forward at low drag altitudes, its all simple vector math.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 08, 2012, 09:58:14 am
Quote from: Nao on October 08, 2012, 09:43:47 am
Also gravity turning does not "use" gravity to turn >_< idk who thought that term was good as it confuses most people. You just use kinetic energy of going upwards to give time to accelerate forward at low drag altitudes, its all simple vector math.

Gravity turning is simply letting your rocket fall slowly over to one side, like if it was stationary and you pushed the top enough to make it topple over.
Simple as that, the only advantage is not burning fuel to adjust heading.(which is not accounted for in KSP).

Gravity turning is not more efficient in KSP but it gives bonus realism points.

Considering max speed in lower atmosphere, we have found with tests to be about 200m/s.
Just because MechJeb goes to 100 m/s does not mean that is most efficient.(I consider mechjeb cheating anyways)

I'd recommend doing 2 test with the same rocket, one going at 100 m/s and one going 200 m/s in the lower atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 09:59:29 am
Personally, I just fly up to 60km or so, then turn to the horizon, and burn till orbit, but that's because I can't steer at all till the first stage falls away, due to lag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 10:00:07 am
Quote
Gravity turning is not more efficient in KSP but it gives bonus realism points.

it is :P

it even has oberth effect
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 10:04:13 am
is there Coriolis effect?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 10:08:26 am
before the first optimization update, there was the tidal effect and larger longer craft got tidal locked with kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 10:10:03 am
 :o woah..... but still, is there coriolis effect?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 10:17:09 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 10:10:03 am
:o woah..... but still, is there coriolis effect?

ok I had to check this up because I couldn't remember how Coriolis worked.

yes there is, and it is the reason every orbit is more efficient when starting at 90deg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 10:57:15 am
ah. ok. just checking!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 11:27:34 am
Kerbal engineering at work
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/10/that-smooth-spacex-launch-turns-out-one-of-the-engines-exploded/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 11:29:02 am
Nah, if it was kerbal engineering, the whole thing would have exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 11:52:59 am
woah..... well, that must have been fun for whoever built that one... and the crew who installed it, and the crew...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 08, 2012, 11:54:48 am
It wasn't a manned launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 08, 2012, 12:22:34 pm
Quote from: ank on October 08, 2012, 09:58:14 am
Gravity turning is not more efficient in KSP but it gives bonus realism points.

Considering max speed in lower atmosphere, we have found with tests to be about 200m/s.
Just because MechJeb goes to 100 m/s does not mean that is most efficient.(I consider mechjeb cheating anyways)

I'd recommend doing 2 test with the same rocket, one going at 100 m/s and one going 200 m/s in the lower atmosphere.
I disagree, "gravity turning" is actually benificial due to 1. oberth effect 2. centripetal force acting erlier thus , less energy lost from gravitational pull.

Actually let's do a challenge KSP 0.17

Small command pod (mk1)
4x FL-T400 fuel tank
LVT30 engine

How much fuel can you get into orbit (above 70km)
My first attempt, 16,8L of fuel left, can you do better with your ascent profile ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 08, 2012, 12:27:53 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 11:27:34 am
Kerbal engineering at work
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/10/that-smooth-spacex-launch-turns-out-one-of-the-engines-exploded/
The Deep Space Kraken Cthulhu tore off the engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 12:42:37 pm
I think I've figured out what's wrong with my rocket currently.

Engines forward of the center of mass just plain don't work right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 08, 2012, 01:05:24 pm
Engines forward of the CoM tend to blow exhaust into the rest of the craft if not positioned properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
Not just that, but the they also seem to steer it in the wrong direction. Or at least the craft tends to be very unstable in gneral.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 08, 2012, 01:19:58 pm
Quote from: Japa on October 08, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
Not just that, but the they also seem to steer it in the wrong direction. Or at least the craft tends to be very unstable in gneral.
There is definitely something fishy about controls in 0.17, just recently i had my control surfaces reverse rotation but normal rest of the steering when capsule was build upside down. (capsule was actually rotating properly - against control surfaces)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 01:31:26 pm
just make one of those:

(http://i45.tinypic.com/wa0ork.jpg)
(that's a aerospike)
and start it at minimal thrust.

definitely some issues if even that doesn't go straight
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 02:29:16 pm
http://youtu.be/LSMzos2eGfI

I did this as a test of video capturing with MSI afterburner.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 08, 2012, 02:38:59 pm
Quote from: Japa on October 08, 2012, 02:29:16 pm
http://youtu.be/LSMzos2eGfI

I did this as a test of video capturing with MSI afterburner.
Do you really play the game with such lags?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2012, 02:46:15 pm
It clears up after I separate the first stage, which doesn't usually explode like this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 08, 2012, 02:53:55 pm
Quote from: Techhead on October 02, 2012, 12:34:57 pm
By the way, if you want proof that gravity turns give more delta-v, I did some tests with my demo copy of KSP. My SSTO test rocket on full burn, straight up, gave me an apoapsis of 1630 km, with a very eccentric orbit. It took me a couple of tries, but one flight profile (full burn with a gradual gravity turn) managed to get an apoapsis of 1988 km, in a more circular orbit. Granted, the 1988 flight had an periapsis below ground level, but not by much.
I figured I would quote my earlier post for anyone who doubts the efficiency of a gravity turn. This is with a full burn SSTO. Mind you, I forgot to mention I had several less successful test launches, but I would still prefer the results of those to the pure vertical launch.

If you're wondering why it's called a gravity turn, it's because gravity will actually pull a slight deviation eventually towards the earth under thrust. When you're leaving SAS on, you have to do it manually (which increases aerodynamic stresses.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on October 08, 2012, 03:26:05 pm
Quote from: Japa on October 08, 2012, 02:29:16 pm
http://youtu.be/LSMzos2eGfI

I did this as a test of video capturing with MSI afterburner.
Haha nice! I just finished my 202t Rocket design. Witch achieves kind of similar framerates at launch :P

Managed to get 202t of "test load" into 77km orbit, with 5800L of fuel left for last stage (single mainsail engine)

I would really like to see your design , can you post your craft file ?   I'll post mine =3. (when i'll find out how >_< , is it possible to attach small(330kb) files here ?)

edit:
Welp at least my old mediafire acc stil works, http://www.mediafire.com/?ser16e9ea980u9o (http://www.mediafire.com/?ser16e9ea980u9o)
22,3 tons of struts. Takeoff weight: more than 1710tons takeoff thrust 28500kn (2850tons)
Spoiler: pics (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 08, 2012, 04:29:46 pm
Okay, I caved - the last version I played was 0.11, before even the Mun had been put in (I think), and all the discussion here and the shiny, shiny new planets have caused me to purchase 0.17.  :D  Time to go crash me some spacecraft!

(Also, we can EVA now?  Yay!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 08, 2012, 04:36:17 pm
Yea, turning terrain detail to low reaaally helped me. I can set everything else to min/max for almost no FPS effect, but terrain detail is a huge difference. Make sure that's low...

Also, thanks for the tips.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 08, 2012, 06:37:12 pm
I actually specifically switched to using mod packs because of the lag I was getting. It's still bad right off the launch pad, but not nearly as bad, and I can actually manually fly things now all the way. Before I was just setting SAS on and hoping for the best until about 5000 meters.  Reducing your part numbers really does help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 07:22:13 pm
whats IVA? inter vehicular activity?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 08, 2012, 07:22:42 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 07:22:13 pm
whats IVA? inter vehicular activity?

Intra.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 08, 2012, 08:53:01 pm
ok, thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 09, 2012, 12:50:25 am
To me the laggiest part is between 18000 and 25000 meters.
Within those altitude, the framerate drops to a slideshow, no matter what
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 09, 2012, 01:02:13 am
Lag can be somewhat fixed by dropping graphical settings to minimum.
That doesn't fix the crashes, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 09, 2012, 01:30:59 am
Yay! I have made my first round-trip between the moon and kerbal! I didnt survive the return (hit the water at about 300m/s... Not enough fuel) but a lot was learned. I spent way too much fuel trying to correct my lunar orbit, but then I remembered kerbal's gravity is strong enough to pull me into orbit with it no matter how wacky my heading is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 09, 2012, 02:04:08 am
Crudely-drawn orbit adjustment guide (To hopefully help people with issues orbiting):

(The red arrow is the the ship, and the direction it is currently travelling. The black arrow represents the direction you would accelerate in, that is try to travel in the direction of the arrow. The "diagrams" with no arrow represent the original orbit, that we are going to adjust. The black circle is the body you are orbiting).

Spoiler: Growing/Shrinking orbit (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tilting orbit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 09, 2012, 02:34:40 am
I have found that there is a limit to how much thrust you can apply to a craft without the physics breaking down and either wrecking the craft, or just lacking like hell.
I've found the limit to be about 10 of the biggest engines.

Scaling the ship down to only 6-8 engines will really help with lag.

I'll be working on the orbit challenge later. could you upload the craft file so we have identical crafts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 09, 2012, 02:51:32 am
you may just be passing the strength limit of the decoupler. more struts may help holding things in place
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 09, 2012, 02:57:15 am
I already posted a ship capable of lifting a huge interplanetary landing stage, with only 6 big engines and no lag.
So from my perspective, there is no real need to use more thrust at a time, than what my computer can handle(which looks to be about the same as you guys)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kingfisher1112 on October 09, 2012, 10:25:50 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=inkkLAfFIbY
Just going to leave this here. I hope it hasn't already been posted. Now I REALLY want to get KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 09, 2012, 10:41:23 am
Quote from: kingfisher1112 on October 09, 2012, 10:25:50 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=inkkLAfFIbY
Just going to leave this here. I hope it hasn't already been posted. Now I REALLY want to get KSP.

Been posted in this thread 3 or 4 times...

I also feel the need to point out that the game is NOT at all like the video.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 09, 2012, 10:47:54 am
By the way, people judging the game based on that movie... it is exactly that, a movie. It takes a ton of setup to get even one of those shots and I'm betting a fair amount of luck as well. The game is first and foremost a space simulation, and a slightly arcadey one at that. It's great at what it does, but don't expect that kind of action out of it on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 09, 2012, 12:17:01 pm
I have been using the Protractor plug in to fly semi trucks (I forget the name of that mod) to Minus to set up a Kerthane mining operation. Let me say that DRIVING on Minus is much more difficult than FLYING to Minus.

To get there I put my craft in a 4-6 degree inclination orbit and I start my burn when Minus is 30 degrees out of phase with Kerbin (I don't know if that is the proper phrase, but it works pretty well). Protractor will also tell you your closest point to the other body so it makes it easy to adjust.

I heard some people mention having difficulties with control surfaces after going max warp. The way my craft is supposed to work is that the Kerbin/Minus transfer stage is supposed to slow my craft to around 15 m/s before disconnecting and allowing the truck to be lowered with RCS. The problem is when I get to Minus, translate UP becomes translate up and down at the same time so my trucks smash down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 09, 2012, 06:02:02 pm
Hooray, I managed to get my first stable munar orbit - with my penultimate stage still attached and with fuel!  :o

Hmm.  Guess I'll be leaving space junk in orbit around the Mun for a change!  Got to free my lander stage up from its brother and see if I can actually land the damn thing now!  :D

Edit:  umm, oops?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 10, 2012, 01:38:14 am
339m/s might be slightly too much for a Mun landing  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 10, 2012, 01:41:03 am
Seems a case of "suddenly,land"


Landing on the dark side without visual clues is challengy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 10, 2012, 03:01:15 am
Are there any spotlight mods for KSP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 10, 2012, 03:05:31 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on October 10, 2012, 03:01:15 am
Are there any spotlight mods for KSP?

Yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 10, 2012, 03:40:00 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on October 10, 2012, 03:01:15 am
Are there any spotlight mods for KSP?

Plenty
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 10, 2012, 01:00:13 pm
well, I finally gave up on the gargantua launcher, and moved to a smaller but more efficent design, called niohoggr ( or, rather, nidhogg. the first spelling would require a couple of fancy letters I don't have).
which allowed me to bring back the first 2 kerbonauts from the mun! ( for those who don't know, I had 10+ kerbonauts stranded from previous attempts to rescue the first crew/deliver a car ( I so far failed all my attempts to build a car with standard parts.)

still, success!

and now I might start crew swap missions, to resupply my improvised colony with food and fresh kerbonauts :D

now, to other planets!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 10, 2012, 01:51:07 pm
you get fancy letters from alt and the numpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 10, 2012, 02:19:58 pm
I'll do you one better. For Níðhöggr you need the following:
í Alt-0237
ð Alt-0240
ö Alt-0246
If you aren't going to use alt codes, you should at least convert 'ð' into a 'd' instead of an 'o'. It's not any kind of o, it's a curvy d with a cross-stroke.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 10, 2012, 02:41:04 pm
in my defense, in wikipedia it looked like an o. I guess I should take a closer look next time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 10, 2012, 03:09:23 pm
Quote from: Techhead on October 10, 2012, 02:19:58 pm
If you aren't going to use alt codes, you should at least convert 'ð' into a 'd' instead of an 'o'. It's not any kind of o, it's a curvy d with a cross-stroke.

I'd tend to convert it phonetically, to a 'th'.  It's what gave us 'th'e, 'th'at, 'th'is and so forth, after all.  :)  Unless I'm mixing my letters again.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 10, 2012, 01:41:03 am
Seems a case of "suddenly,land"

It was - I didn't realise how close I was to ground (and how fast I was going, both horizontally and, uh, negative-vertically, until it was too late - my small engine didn't have enough oomph to take the edge off.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 10, 2012, 03:20:50 pm
im on a laptop so no numpad for me! but otherwise i wood have given a example.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 10, 2012, 04:55:20 pm
Yea, usually I plow my camera down if I'm on the dark side of the moon. Descend slowly, keep the camera below the craft, and when the camera hits the terrain, you know your ship is going to soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 10, 2012, 05:34:58 pm
I would recommend getting mechjeb just for surface info. It tells you your horizontal and vertical speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on October 10, 2012, 07:17:47 pm
FINALLY landed on Mun! My lander legs were just a little too short so the thruster asploded and the lil Kerbal is stranded. So far all of my attempts to rescue him have resulted in 10+ failure to orbit with 5 of those resulting in me sending letters via limousine to widows. I think this calls for moar rockets!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on October 10, 2012, 08:31:56 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 10, 2012, 03:20:50 pm
im on a laptop so no numpad for me! but otherwise i wood have given a example.

Laptops don't come with Numpads? Mine does?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 10, 2012, 08:32:58 pm
its a good laptop then. they all come with the squirlly numpad-in-the-keyboard thing, but thats just a pain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 10, 2012, 11:15:17 pm
Yea, most laptops don't have numpads. Sucks, but what can you do.

Still, I'd imagine a laptop that could run KSP decently would, but eh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 11, 2012, 12:31:27 am
It mostly depends on the size of the monitor. the 14 inch version of my laptop(i have 15,5 inch) does not have a numpad, but mine does, indentical components otherwise.

On the subject of norse letters:
Technically "þ" is pronounced like TH,
and ð is like a soft D(which you don't have in english).
But all that said, I don't think an english speaker could hear the diffrence between ð and þ.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2012, 05:10:16 am
Quote from: Rex_Nex on October 10, 2012, 11:15:17 pm
Yea, most laptops don't have numpads. Sucks, but what can you do.

Still, I'd imagine a laptop that could run KSP decently would, but eh.
http://www.amazon.com/MillionAccessories-Numeric-Keyboard-Notebook-Computer/dp/B007DVM39A/

Thats what I did when I was using a laptop with no numpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 11, 2012, 05:36:33 am
I can just see someone trying to fiddle with that while laying on their bed :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 11, 2012, 09:17:43 am
I... actually used to do just that... loved playing Orbiter on my old laptop in bed using one of those usb keypads... until it died at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on October 11, 2012, 02:13:28 pm
Heh, I hooked one of those up to my laptop and made a simple program to unlock something. I would have hooked my door up to it, but I had no servos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on October 11, 2012, 02:15:00 pm
For alt codes you have to hold down the ALT key anyway, so it's not too much extra effort to hold down the FN key as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on October 11, 2012, 02:15:41 pm
Just did my first completely manual mun 'landing'. Here's how it went...

After lifting off with my latest mun lander (no screenshot) and getting in orbit I managed to get in the mun's SOI after a few attempts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After that I de orbited as usual and attempted to manually land (with some assistance from Smart A.S.S), it all went well except...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I had too much horizontal velocity and fell over.

And that's why we don't pilot spacecraft with a keyboard! And why I fail rocket science forever.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on October 11, 2012, 02:39:37 pm
I always use keyboard to pilot my crafts...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 11, 2012, 02:44:28 pm
ts fun. i now have three stranded morons in orbit... first total orbit!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 11, 2012, 11:58:24 pm
First SSTO* space plane with stock bits!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


*The Fuel for the ramjet engines is stored in drop tanks. I used "realistic" rules for this; the engines needed to have a body and intake, I couldn't use rocket fuel for the jets, etc, which is why the engines are stood off with the decouplers that don't allow fuel to flow. I'm thinking i'll duplicate the wing seconds and make them non fuel flow enabled, which will allow me to have the engines directly bolted onto the wings. The weight save may also allow me to rejig the fuel tanks to be inline with the engines, which would mean that it's a true SSTO plane.

The downsides to the current design is that, well, there's no RCS and no payload, and the best you can expect from it is a 80km circular orbit. I'm at a loss on what i could do to make it more efficient, i've built a few based off expanding this design in the past and anything bigger actually got worse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 12, 2012, 12:55:28 am
I'm still trying to come up with an aeronautical-interplanetary-aeronautical design. Fly to space, rocket to eve, and fly in the eveian atmosphere- now there's a challenge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 12, 2012, 12:58:31 am
For extra challange, why not laythe :P

edit: i'm doing this because, for roleplay reasons once docking is added, and for real reasons once a campaign and costs etc is added, My stratergy is going to be to get some kind of efficient fully reusable SSTO, or fully reusable near SSTO (maybe bigger drop tanks that can still be recovered easily) vehicle and assemble stuff in space a small but cheap bit at a time.

Come to think of it though, there'd be nothing from stopping me building an orbital fueling depot, an interplanetary booster and then using an actual space plane for the missions to laythe... Considering if you refuel a SSTO while its in orbit it has the fuel to get to orbit again, presuming you can land with a full load.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 01:21:00 am
I hope they get orbital maneuvrers planning before docking, because rendevouz are just a pita done by hand

Also, soi change orbital display badly needs fixing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 12, 2012, 01:49:02 am
Well, I did it. A proper, fully reusable SSTO spaceplane, with stock parts*.
No RCS and the payload is only the smallest cockpit to a 120km circular orbit. The question is, can this be improved.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*modified the square wing to not flow fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2012, 03:14:45 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 12, 2012, 12:55:28 am
I'm still trying to come up with an aeronautical-interplanetary-aeronautical design. Fly to space, rocket to eve, and fly in the eveian atmosphere- now there's a challenge.

I used my Tiny Flier MK 2.2 and decided to go for Duna, since I had a craft in orbit in 90 degree orbit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flying for Duna:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Slingshot breaking like a BOSS!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sunrise over Duna:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Realizing Duna has no oxygen for my airbreathers, and promptly crashing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Prepare the next plane for Eve, and hope they got some oxygen!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 12, 2012, 04:00:43 am
Nope, maybe take rockets instead. Flying itself should actually be pretty easy, the dense atmosphere will produce a lot of lift.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2012, 07:55:17 am
Setting course towards Laythe instead...
Maybe they got some oxygen....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 12, 2012, 09:36:18 am
Yep, Laythe has whatever the airbreathers need to work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 12, 2012, 12:52:43 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 01:21:00 am
I hope they get orbital maneuvrers planning before docking, because rendevouz are just a pita done by hand

Also, soi change orbital display badly needs fixing.

Have you tried messing around with that one setting that changes how soi change is displayed? I forget what it is called but it is in your config file. There are two settings right next to eachother with similar names, one is set to 0 and one is set to 1. The first one changes how osi change is displayed (I think 3 is the best) the other changes how many soi changes are displayed... great for setting up sling shots (that is an assumption, I have no idea how to slingshot).

Also the protractor plug in is good for setting up rendezvouses. It gives you a degree of separation between your position and the planet/moons position. I have found that when that indication is at 30 degrees an full power burn on my ship will almost always get me to Minus. Then I just have to adjust my inclination.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 12, 2012, 02:31:55 pm
Quote from: Fikes on October 12, 2012, 12:52:43 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 01:21:00 am
I hope they get orbital maneuvrers planning before docking, because rendevouz are just a pita done by hand

Also, soi change orbital display badly needs fixing.

Have you tried messing around with that one setting that changes how soi change is displayed? I forget what it is called but it is in your config file. There are two settings right next to eachother with similar names, one is set to 0 and one is set to 1. The first one changes how osi change is displayed (I think 3 is the best) the other changes how many soi changes are displayed... great for setting up sling shots (that is an assumption, I have no idea how to slingshot).

Also the protractor plug in is good for setting up rendezvouses. It gives you a degree of separation between your position and the planet/moons position. I have found that when that indication is at 30 degrees an full power burn on my ship will almost always get me to Minus. Then I just have to adjust my inclination.
Conedraw something something.
I'd suggest mode as three.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 02:48:33 pm
Mode 2 is the best, but the problem is that it is inaccurate and it doesn't get better just by changing drawing mode :P

Mode 2 fyi shows the path relative to the relative body; so the line is not contiguous but at least you can zoom on the planet/moon of your next soi, zoom in and have a close look.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 12, 2012, 03:08:37 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 02:48:33 pm
Mode 2 fyi shows the path relative to the relative body; so the line is not contiguous but at least you can zoom on the planet/moon of your next soi, zoom in and have a close look.
Could you explain what this means a bit better? I really don't get it.
All of the modes show your path relative to the body you're orbiting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 12, 2012, 03:10:18 pm
My latest almost-spaceplane.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This one is different than my previous failures, in that it actually can get into orbit by replacing the radial engines with the aerospike one, but that involves ripping the tail off to have a place to put the engine -- which is unfortunate. Still, I'm quite pleased.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 03:13:50 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 12, 2012, 03:08:37 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 02:48:33 pm
Mode 2 fyi shows the path relative to the relative body; so the line is not contiguous but at least you can zoom on the planet/moon of your next soi, zoom in and have a close look.
Could you explain what this means a bit better? I really don't get it.
All of the modes show your path relative to the body you're orbiting.

It is drawn around where the body is *now* not at where it will be in the future, meaning you can center the camera around the body and the path will be there
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 12, 2012, 03:19:44 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 03:13:50 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 12, 2012, 03:08:37 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 02:48:33 pm
Mode 2 fyi shows the path relative to the relative body; so the line is not contiguous but at least you can zoom on the planet/moon of your next soi, zoom in and have a close look.
Could you explain what this means a bit better? I really don't get it.
All of the modes show your path relative to the body you're orbiting.

It is drawn around where the body is *now* not at where it will be in the future, meaning you can center the camera around the body and the path will be there
Isn't that the default mode, 1?
2 shows a path like 1, except the escapes are matched up rather than the intercepts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2012, 03:31:43 pm
turns out you're right, I'm using mode 0  ::)

here a screenshot
(http://i50.tinypic.com/w82sdz.png)

see? if I center the canera on moon I can zoom in and see the path nicely, without having to fight the camera controls
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 13, 2012, 12:08:12 pm
YESS! I managed to get to the mun with free demo stock parts!
Landing at 350m/s isn't very effective thought ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 13, 2012, 05:15:24 pm
So, entering Laythes atmosphere at 4600m/s on an almost vertical trajectory isn't a good idea. Luckily I quick saved a little ways (but not far enough to be really safe, unfortunately) out last night, although thrusting to slow myself down was ineffective, this time i'm just going to try enter at a shallower angle, and then maybe I can fly on it.

edit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It actually handles about the same as it does on Kerbin, suprisingly. On balance.... bring more lift.

edit: nope, can't land it. We will have to go back in the future.. with bigger wings and stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 14, 2012, 12:59:57 am
So, I decided to try and make a SSTO space plane with more payload by duplicating the existing design's components, which, after a bit of tweaking, gives this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks ugly, probably has a little to little lift, but it gets the job done. 3 RCS tanks of payload to a 70km orbit. Just barely lands.
I should probably teak the design up a bit. For example, would the weight reduction of getting rid of one engine during the final boosting stage make up for the fact that it would spend longer in the mid atmosphere, and so on. Questions, so many questions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 14, 2012, 01:53:17 am
Am I the only one who doesn't like that those flat rectangle panels that you fit wings onto aren't actually flat?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on October 14, 2012, 03:06:45 am
do i want to know what happened on the mun there?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 14, 2012, 05:17:32 am
Quote from: Nelia Hawk on October 14, 2012, 03:06:45 am
do i want to know what happened on the mun there?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Air is for the weak.

Also, Am I the only one who thinks the Kerbals look like little plush zombies?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 16, 2012, 04:16:13 am
Quote from: Nao on October 08, 2012, 12:22:34 pm
Quote from: ank on October 08, 2012, 09:58:14 am
Gravity turning is not more efficient in KSP but it gives bonus realism points.

Considering max speed in lower atmosphere, we have found with tests to be about 200m/s.
Just because MechJeb goes to 100 m/s does not mean that is most efficient.(I consider mechjeb cheating anyways)

I'd recommend doing 2 test with the same rocket, one going at 100 m/s and one going 200 m/s in the lower atmosphere.
I disagree, "gravity turning" is actually benificial due to 1. oberth effect 2. centripetal force acting erlier thus , less energy lost from gravitational pull.

Actually let's do a challenge KSP 0.17

Small command pod (mk1)
4x FL-T400 fuel tank
LVT30 engine

How much fuel can you get into orbit (above 70km)
My first attempt, 16,8L of fuel left, can you do better with your ascent profile ?

My best result yet was with a full throttle profile, with 7L left at a 70k*150k orbit.

Going at 200m/s then throttling down to maintain speed yielded slightly less, about 3L.

Going at 100m/s as per your suggestion didn't get into orbit, only 70k*35k.

All attempts have been made with turning the craft slowly.

I think this rocket is just not powerful enough to require a throttle down. If we added boosters, we would need to throttle it though.
this is very much like a test I did earlier, where throttling down does not help on this type of craft.

Did you use Mechjeb on the 16L attempt?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 16, 2012, 02:19:22 pm
plush little zombies.. me like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 17, 2012, 07:41:33 am
Do you guys ever get tired of perfectly reducing your lateral speeds on landing?
Well I once did, but no more!

Dorf and Dorfettes, i give you: The Roller!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Featuring self-righting-mechanism: (or as Robot Wars likes to call it, a Srimer)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on October 17, 2012, 09:03:01 am
Good concept, remind me of the mars rovers landing airbags designed for the same purpose.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2012, 09:07:00 am
Quote from: ank on October 17, 2012, 07:41:33 am
Do you guys ever get tired of perfectly reducing your lateral speeds on landing?
Well I once did, but no more!

Dorf and Dorfettes, i give you: The Roller!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Featuring self-righting-mechanism: (or as Robot Wars likes to call it, a Srimer)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'd love to see a video of this in action.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 17, 2012, 10:38:33 am
I have never made a video before, so I'll have to learn to use Fraps.
Can't be that hard I guess.

In the meanwhile, Car mode!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This would be a problem, but not with The Roller:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Landing on the head like a BOSS:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Joyride on the mun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What does this button do?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 17, 2012, 10:43:50 am
So I was just refueling at Minmus when all of a sudden, the Kethane hotspot vanishes into thin air. 40 000+ litres of kethane just gone. In mid-refueling, leaving me with two full tanks, two half tanks and one unwieldy, unbalanced interplanetary rocket stranded.

Cue end of flight.

The hotspot was within 10km of Minmus State Base, to boot!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Charmander on October 17, 2012, 01:29:06 pm
Quote from: ank on October 17, 2012, 07:41:33 am
Featuring self-righting-mechanism: (or as Robot Wars likes to call it, a Srimer)

Back in my day, we called that a Cassius flip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2012, 10:51:11 am
this game could really use some programmable input like the one in the old mindrover or the robot arena games, where you could assign keys to components at your will

like, http://youtu.be/STpu__RyQNA?t=3m8s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on October 21, 2012, 12:00:23 am
Beat my record of 800m/s with this new craft that can go up to 854 m/s
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 21, 2012, 01:34:16 am
I like the gif look, it is much very appropriate
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 21, 2012, 03:21:33 am
Looks like a picture from Kerbal Flight Simulator 2001 :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 21, 2012, 07:43:08 am
So, I was using my deep-space explorer vessel (capable of getting to any inner system planet), but had an accident during launch. I really messed up my heading and the orbital maneuvers took up too much fuel to really get anywhere (although this was just a test flight so not really too much ruined). I was going to just dump it in solar orbit, but then decided I could probably take it to the moon. After getting there with no problems, I figured that I might as well drop down to the surface.
From that, I learned quite a bit about what not to design into a lander. Namely, give it a wide base, and build it like an actual lander. NOT top heavy.
I must be getting better at this game though, because this is my first landing on the Mun that didn't just destroy everything.
Spoiler: Pretty picture (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RenoFox on October 21, 2012, 08:59:58 am
How do you hit the gravity of other planets? I have made a rocket that can easily reach Eves orbit, but even getting the ships orbit close enough to the orbit of the planet seems so difficult that I must be missing something vital. Is there a way to see where the two orbits would be closest to each other? Or how do you hit the planets orbits?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 21, 2012, 09:47:03 am
http://ksp.olex.biz

here. this will guide you to planet encounters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 21, 2012, 09:46:44 pm
Protractor addon (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/21544-) shows the closest approach to a planet. Unfortunately you can't target a ship yet, or this would be my go-to for all rendezvous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 21, 2012, 11:03:17 pm
My experience with the protractor is that it is always a bit late in timing your approaches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 22, 2012, 03:56:12 am
I haven't tried getting to a planet using protractor, but it makes getting to Minus much easier. I just start my burn with it is 30 degrees off and run into Minus almost every time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 22, 2012, 04:41:59 am
Quote from: Fikes on October 22, 2012, 03:56:12 am
I haven't tried getting to a planet using protractor, but it makes getting to Minus much easier. I just start my burn with it is 30 degrees off and run into Minus almost every time.

Getting to other planets are much harder than getting to a moon.
About as hard as going from one moon to another.
The trouble is that you need to get 2 angles right, and they both depend on time, and they might not even line up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 22, 2012, 04:53:42 am
I've found that if you start with 5/10 degree on lead over the planet position, you have some margin on which find your encounter.

If you start the burn dead on or a just bit late, no dV will bring you there.

I actually found that if I used the protractor to get the angles perfect, then I missed the planet much more times.

Btw, remember that if you're in a waiting orbit at 100km you can warp only up to so much, while if you're landed you can warp at max making waiting for planet positioning much more convenient

edit:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/21544-17-Protractor-Rendez-Plugin-v-2-3-4-10-18-12?p=286858&viewfull=1#post286858
it seems indeed that protractor plugin angles shown are a little off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Geneoce on October 22, 2012, 05:40:41 am
For getting to other planets the laymans way:

1: Disregard everything, EVERYTHING that involves math, angles, numbers, thinking.
2: Get into the exact orbit and inclination of target planet
3: Accelerate in the opposite direction of the planet. If Jools going clockwise, go counter clockwise
4: Hit time accelerate......

And your there!

Enjoy your HORRENDOUSLY inefficient yet 100%* foolproof method of interplanetary travel! While your waiting for intercept, crack open some browser tabs and do some orbital mechanics 101. Tricky at first, but getting somewhere on liquid fuel is much more satisfying than solar or nuclear power


* Seriously, its impossible to NOT get into planetary orbit if your kerbol orbit is the same, besides velocity of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 22, 2012, 06:38:50 am
Any word of updates? its been a month, there were rumblings of a .17 patch, but surely something would have happened by now. Wonder what they're working on
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on October 23, 2012, 09:12:45 am
It seems like they have been working on making the server much more stable for updates. From one of the latest dev posts:

Quote
I just wanted to let everybody know that the development team is very hard at work on the next update. So hard in fact, that its probably going to be a bit quiet around here. We're doing some fairly ambitious things (no comment on what those things are..) So, I won't have much time for blogs or tutorials for the time being. Don't worry, once things calm down a bit, we'll resume our normal news updates. So if you've messaged, pm-ed me or anything of that nature. You can expect that I'll eventually get to your message, but it may take a bit. So, thanks for your patience
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2012, 10:08:09 am
Last I heard the next updates were going to be focused on audio quality/issues. Not my first choice, but I suppose it had to be done eventually.

Quote from: Geneoce on October 22, 2012, 05:40:41 am

* Seriously, its impossible to NOT get into planetary orbit if your kerbol orbit is the same, besides velocity of course.

If your velocity isn't the same, then your orbit isn't going to be the same.

A closer to fool-proof method is just to make your orbit slightly smaller or slightly larger than the target orbit. It'll take a hell of a long time, but eventually you'll get within a reasonable distance and then you just just burn right at it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Geneoce on October 23, 2012, 11:29:10 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 23, 2012, 10:08:09 am
If your velocity isn't the same, then your orbit isn't going to be the same.

A closer to fool-proof method is just to make your orbit slightly smaller or slightly larger than the target orbit. It'll take a hell of a long time, but eventually you'll get within a reasonable distance and then you just just burn right at it.

Whoops, I meant direction of velocity. Or I was thinking of velocity in the literal sense. I'm not sure, my physics is old and rusty.

What I was trying to say is get the same orbit and inclination, but moving in the opposite direction to the target body. In my own round-about potentally misconstrue-able fashion  :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2012, 01:01:47 pm
Quote
Whoops, I meant direction of velocity. Or I was thinking of velocity in the literal sense. I'm not sure, my physics is old and rusty.

What I was trying to say is get the same orbit and inclination, but moving in the opposite direction to the target body. In my own round-about potentally misconstrue-able fashion 

And that's only possible if you're either cheating, or good enough with orbital mechanics to begin with that an simple interception wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2012, 03:50:47 am
After yet another migration, forums links are busted.

Again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2012, 04:05:34 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 23, 2012, 01:01:47 pm
Quote
Whoops, I meant direction of velocity. Or I was thinking of velocity in the literal sense. I'm not sure, my physics is old and rusty.

What I was trying to say is get the same orbit and inclination, but moving in the opposite direction to the target body. In my own round-about potentally misconstrue-able fashion 

And that's only possible if you're either cheating, or good enough with orbital mechanics to begin with that an simple interception wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Yeah you need to reverse your speed, when in sun orbit. This is about 5000 Delta-v (probably more).
Have you actually done this, or are you just speculating?

Ofc, you could get this with a planetary slingshot, BUT then again, if you are capable of doing slingshots, why are you using this stupid method?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Geneoce on October 24, 2012, 06:04:58 am
Quote from: ank on October 24, 2012, 04:05:34 am
Yeah you need to reverse your speed, when in sun orbit. This is about 5000 Delta-v (probably more).
Have you actually done this, or are you just speculating?

Ofc, you could get this with a planetary slingshot, BUT then again, if you are capable of doing slingshots, why are you using this stupid method?

Oh, yeah. Fuel. Forgot about that. *ahem*

Carry on then people heh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on October 24, 2012, 09:58:20 am
So I finally got a space plane to the mun. By cheating and attaching it to a giant rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RenoFox on October 24, 2012, 10:09:34 am
The Protractor certainly helped me get close to other planets faster, and with luck my first flight to Eve actually succeeded. However, the same lightning hasn't struck twice, and since then I haven't gotten to the planets precisely enough. If the protractor helps you get into the general vicinity of the planet, how do you make the final fine tunings for the rendezvous?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 24, 2012, 06:56:55 pm
Quote from: RenoFox on October 24, 2012, 10:09:34 am
The Protractor certainly helped me get close to other planets faster, and with luck my first flight to Eve actually succeeded. However, the same lightning hasn't struck twice, and since then I haven't gotten to the planets precisely enough. If the protractor helps you get into the general vicinity of the planet, how do you make the final fine tunings for the rendezvous?
Burn straight at it? Works for me if I miss something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 25, 2012, 04:43:21 am
Quote from: RenoFox on October 24, 2012, 10:09:34 am
The Protractor certainly helped me get close to other planets faster, and with luck my first flight to Eve actually succeeded. However, the same lightning hasn't struck twice, and since then I haven't gotten to the planets precisely enough. If the protractor helps you get into the general vicinity of the planet, how do you make the final fine tunings for the rendezvous?

Pictures, or it didn't happen  8 ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 05:10:21 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 24, 2012, 06:56:55 pm
Quote from: RenoFox on October 24, 2012, 10:09:34 am
The Protractor certainly helped me get close to other planets faster, and with luck my first flight to Eve actually succeeded. However, the same lightning hasn't struck twice, and since then I haven't gotten to the planets precisely enough. If the protractor helps you get into the general vicinity of the planet, how do you make the final fine tunings for the rendezvous?
Burn straight at it? Works for me if I miss something.

use adamKSP:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/21111-PLUGIN-0-17-AdamKSP-Show-Phase-and-Ejection-Angle-DRAW-trajectory-on-map-v0-6

and the lookup tables here:
http://ksp.olex.biz

for some reason shows better current ship angles:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/21544-17-Protractor-Rendez-Plugin-v-2-3-4-10-18-12?p=286942&viewfull=1#post286942
Quote
I have noticed that more often than not I do NOT get a SOI change on my first try when I follow the angles from your plugin but I DO get a hit on the first try when I follow the angles from AdamKSP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2012, 06:41:28 am
Is this game worth the $18 ? :D I've tried the demo, and it seems pretty neat, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 25, 2012, 08:01:34 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2012, 06:41:28 am
Is this game worth the $18 ? :D I've tried the demo, and it seems pretty neat, actually.
YES
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 08:26:35 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2012, 06:41:28 am
Is this game worth the $18 ? :D I've tried the demo, and it seems pretty neat, actually.
look at this, a trip to another planet using a single stage plane:
http://imgur.com/a/8s5le#0

I think yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2012, 08:54:17 am
Wow, it looks a lot more advanced than the demo. More features. D:

I think I'll buy it when I have time to play it. And when I hook up Paypal with my new debit card number.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 25, 2012, 11:51:24 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 08:26:35 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2012, 06:41:28 am
Is this game worth the $18 ? :D I've tried the demo, and it seems pretty neat, actually.
look at this, a trip to another planet using a single stage plane:
http://imgur.com/a/8s5le#0

I think yes.
Yikes! Good job! :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 02:06:45 pm
disclaimer: not mine. but I saw it posted around here I think, and it impressed me as well!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 25, 2012, 02:38:26 pm
i like the end image.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 25, 2012, 02:44:08 pm
Can it get to Jool? I'm curious how well that thing flies on Lathe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 25, 2012, 04:12:07 pm
not well, at a guess. You need more wing area to fly there, even wtih less gravity. I *think* the surface pressure is less than on kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 04:59:22 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on October 25, 2012, 04:12:07 pm
not well, at a guess. You need more wing area to fly there, even wtih less gravity. I *think* the surface pressure is less than on kerbin.

wiki say 80% of kerbin, give or take


edit:

so I managed to make a plane that has enough power to reach 0.96 mach on its own power. (using the ferram aerospace research)
so I dived a bit, passing the sound barrier, and I'm now happily running at mach 2  8)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RenoFox on October 28, 2012, 04:04:25 am
Yay, I just made my first round-trip to Duna and back!

(http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/21739/21d862217384618.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/21d862217384618)

I'm still puzzled by spaceplanes though. This monstrosity carries 7050 liters of jet fuel, but just two aerospike engines devour it all in less than five minutes! Is there something fundamentally wrong with it?

Also, how do the air intakes work?

(http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/21739/775d1a217383480.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/775d1a217383480)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 28, 2012, 04:06:59 am
Can't understand spaceplanes at all :< They always tilt off-balance and asplode.

On the other hand, achieving low earth orbit is now very possible. The next stage is the Mun! :D

...but that's a whole different problem Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 28, 2012, 05:00:37 am
Quote from: RenoFox on October 28, 2012, 04:04:25 am
I'm still puzzled by spaceplanes though. This monstrosity carries 7050 liters of jet fuel, but just two aerospike engines devour it all in less than five minutes! Is there something fundamentally wrong with it?
(Toroidal) Aerospike engines are rocket engines IIRC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2012, 05:08:48 am
the jet fuel container contain 150 liters, the liquid fuel containers holds 400 liters.

the jet engines are really lean, but aerospikes and liquid fuel engines in general eat fuel like there is no tomorrow!

also, for better aerospacing, try this mod:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/20451-0-17-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-5-Aerodynamics-Fixes-For-Planes-Rockets
(0.5 doesn't add parts and it is my favorite, 0.5.1 adds some engines)

if you want it modless, consider this:
you need your center of lift slightly behind your center of mass.
you may want to have forward mounting canard, because it makes the plane easier to take off.
angled wings and control surface are really wonky, try not to rotate them
Spoiler: shameless tutorial plug (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 28, 2012, 05:11:24 am
Well, I missed the Mun, but I got into orbit around the Sun somehow. xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 28, 2012, 05:17:00 am
That Uber space plane is amazing, I didn't think it was possible.

Notice that it only uses the rocket fuel tanks:

When comparing the numbers of the different types of fuel tanks, they all have less fuel/mass than the rocket tanks.
(Rocket tanks have 177 fuel/ton, while all other tanks have 150 fuel/ton, or less. Also all tanks have 0.2 drag, no matter the size)

I'll have to try and make my own plane, with the same capabilities. Even though I made the huge ass plane, and it did have a bigger payload, doing it in one stage is just amazing!
Refuelling stations with kethane anyone?

EDIT: first attempt ended with failing to reach orbit, and the plane being unstable once the fuel was gone, also failed to land.
A sad day for all kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 28, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
its sad. i can build things that can escape the solarsystem, but i cant get into orbit...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 28, 2012, 01:22:18 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 28, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
its sad. i can build things that can escape the solarsystem, but i cant get into orbit...

2 words:
Lateral Speed....
Try it sometime.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 28, 2012, 01:23:00 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 28, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
its sad. i can build things that can escape the solarsystem, but i cant get into orbit...
The fail-safe way, and most fuel expensive way, is to match the orbit of target planet in both eccentricity and inclination as well as traveling in the opposite direction.
The most fuel-efficient way is to use planetary phase angles and delta-v math to calculate a more precise intercept course. I did this once by hand to get to Eve and manage to succeed after a few tries.

Later, however, being the lazy bastard I am, I started launching myself out of Kerbin's SOI and establishing a circular orbit around Kerbol somewhere between Kerbin and either Duna or Eve. Then I use Mech-Jeb to establish a Hohmann transfer to target planet. It may take more time to succeed than using the more precise approach, but it saves me the pain from making costly mistakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 28, 2012, 01:27:08 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 28, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
its sad. i can build things that can escape the solarsystem, but i cant get into orbit...

Check out the tutorial.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 29, 2012, 12:47:49 am
Just to be clear: are we talking about Kerbin orbit, or another planet like Eve?

I thought you meant Kerbin.

And while we might think it's ridiculous to not be able to get into Kerbin orbit, just remember what the game was like before it "clicked".

KSP has taught me how orbits and space-flight works, I had not idea about lateral speeds and such before.

How many here thought, before playing KSP, that getting to the moon was just a matter of pointing at it and burning?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 29, 2012, 02:34:17 am
all the russians, at least, and half nasa until very late in the program  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on October 29, 2012, 02:53:34 am
Its stuff I already knew, but i'm in my final year of an engineering degree at uni. The game would certainly teach most people more about orbital mechanics than most classes would, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 29, 2012, 05:30:29 am
Yeah... I've been a spaceflight fan for decades now. I started my gaming with Microsoft Space Simulator. I spent years just travelling around the solar system and galaxy. Most of the time on autopilot, but it was fun just to look at things, and on occasion fly a lander down to a surface somewhere. Then came the Elite sequels, Frontier, and Frontier: First Encounters. Autopilot kept me somewhat seperated from the actual physics part of it, so i never had to learn much and the comfortable fuel limit and thrust capacities of most ships allowed plenty of just "point and burn" when I did need to do manual control.

Then I got into Orbiter Sim. But even that(excepting the space shuttle), had somewhat fantastical thrust to fuel ratios, and the relatively tiny SSTO delta glider making it to low orbit with 20-40% fuel left and capable of making it all the way to lunar orbit from the ground with very careful planning. This is what truely started teaching me about orbital mechanics. I had to plan my own rendezvous. I had to know how to adjust orbits. I had to learn a ton of new terminology, because the instruments didn't dumb it down for me at all. But there were still instruments... and a basic, but functional autopilot. And it was somewhat forgiving of mistakes.

I can honestly say, Kerbal Space Program in it's early form... and even to an extent, today(although the map view and things like mech jeb have made a lot of the older problems a lot easier) is the toughest space sim to get a handle on, I've ever come across. It's also the one, because of that difficulty, and despite the slight simplicity and gameyness, that has ended up teaching me the most about space flight, orbital mechanics, even basic math. I'd been taught trigonometry in school, but I'd never had a reason to learn it until KSP. (And I still don't know it, like, off the top of my head, but I can claim to have actually used it now). It requires a careful touch to just hold the rocket together sometimes. It requires careful planning to get where you want to go, even it that's just into orbit. And probably toughest of all, it requires careful design, so your rocket DOESN'T fall apart and you still have enough fuel and thrust to get where you're going.

Also a set of working parachutes for the end never hurts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tibbz2 on October 29, 2012, 06:42:41 am
I love it, i'm still at school but i'm looking to into an Aerospace engineering degree when i've finished here, so I guess in a way KSP is 'getting me started' :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 30, 2012, 10:10:26 am
The new version of KSP, 0.17.01, has been released!

Also, version 0.18 is on the horizon, new features: docking, rivers on Kerbin, dwarf planets. The atmosphere on Moho will be removed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 30, 2012, 10:22:59 am
i wonder if there will be true space stations...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2012, 10:46:02 am
Space C'thulu has been banished!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 30, 2012, 11:52:05 am
docking? every sign up until now has said docking would not be in .18

apparently it's true!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 30, 2012, 02:48:23 pm
The tracking station doesn't overload and crash the game any more. That's good news.
However, MechJeb's Rendezvous Module doesn't work in 17.01 for some reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on October 30, 2012, 05:06:38 pm
Another feature hopefully put in .18 is maneuver planning (with a preview of the resulting orbit)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2012, 05:15:33 pm
I've found post confirming at least the kerbin details, the docking and an electrical power system.

but I do hope for maneuver planning
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 01, 2012, 05:19:41 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/260-The-Electrical-System-List-of-parts
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 01, 2012, 06:19:58 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 30, 2012, 10:22:59 am
i wonder if there will be true space stations...

Yep, seems like it.

Single best thing that they can do for game performance. No longer do we have to launch our entire rockets at once, we can cut them down into smaller, more manageable pieces. (props to those who get this reference)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 01, 2012, 06:24:33 am
Question: How do you people rendezvous with a ship you already launched? I don't think I'd ever be able to find my way anywhere near to ships I previously launched. :x
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on November 01, 2012, 06:27:23 am
Well, you can put yourself in a slightly higher (or lower orbit), and then skip time until your target gets close enough that you can close the remaining distance with RCS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 01, 2012, 06:39:45 am
I really hope they add re-docking the same ship, so we can do Apollo type missions.

This will make return flights much easier since you can leave the return stage in orbit, while you land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 01, 2012, 06:44:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 01, 2012, 06:24:33 am
Question: How do you people rendezvous with a ship you already launched? I don't think I'd ever be able to find my way anywhere near to ships I previously launched. :x
try to launch when the other ship is a quarter kerbin before your launch site, it is a good ballpark estimation of ascent time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 01, 2012, 07:05:08 am
I never can match the orbit angle with other ships xD All of my spaceships in orbit are at wildly different angles to each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 01, 2012, 03:42:16 pm
Alternatively you can use MechJeb's ascent autopilot, but be careful: MechJeb can't do fuel efficient launches: it burns at 100% throttle all the time during vertical ascent and gravity turning, unless you turn the "auto-throttle" function off and control the engines by yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on November 01, 2012, 06:39:50 pm
That's not true. Try adding boosters or more overall thrust, it does throttle down a few hundred meters up. I've actually crashed a couple of times because I put a ton of SRBs on, so the main engines (which had the only steering on the ship) didn't actually fire, causing the entire ship to flip over unchecked.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2012, 05:15:33 pm
I've found post confirming at least the kerbin details, the docking and an electrical power system.

but I do hope for maneuver planning
http://www.twitch.tv/kerbalsp/b/337346329
~52:00 docking
~1:19:00 maneuver planning
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2012, 07:22:14 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on November 01, 2012, 03:42:16 pm
Alternatively you can use MechJeb's ascent autopilot, but be careful: MechJeb can't do fuel efficient launches: it burns at 100% throttle all the time during vertical ascent and gravity turning, unless you turn the "auto-throttle" function off and control the engines by yourself.
It only burns at 100% if necessary. If you have more overall thrust than needed to get to orbit, it will throttle down as you ascend. You can change the ascent profile as well, telling it when to start the gravity turn and other settings to tweak your ascent. Though I have to say, I've never been able to manually do better than mechjeb's ascent as far as fuel efficiency and time to orbit.

Also, that electrical system looks excellent! Glad to see them adding more features in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 02, 2012, 06:43:23 pm
Quote from: ank on November 01, 2012, 06:39:45 am
I really hope they add re-docking the same ship, so we can do Apollo type missions.

This will make return flights much easier since you can leave the return stage in orbit, while you land.

From what i've been reading, yep, that'll be possible. As mentioned in one of the dev posts, it should even be possible to control from different command sections eg like Apollo 13.

Personally, i'm more looking forward to docking half a dozen space planes at once to a space station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 02, 2012, 08:19:02 pm
that all should be possible, from what I understand. (as in, launching up different bits to make an interplanetary ship, not an actual assembly building in space. yet)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on November 02, 2012, 11:19:30 pm
Huzzah! Finally made it to Minmus as well as Mun without needing to completely redo my rocket ^_^. For my Mun journey things were easy going, and got there and landed under power and roamed around with my lil Kerbalnaut for a bit before heading home. Did not make it >.> Ended up EVA-ing my Kerbalnaut back to the Mun to keep him from dying. Minmus was more interesting, since I had never been there before. Somehow got there with more fuel than I got to the Mun with. Did this by timing my launch right and just flying straight up until I reached escape velocity, then brought myself into a 50M km elliptical orbit and then waited for about 250 Kerbal days to get into a Minmus intercept. Did not realize that Minmus's gravity was so much lower than the Mun's so ended up bouncing for a while since I couldn't slow down enough for the landing gear to not bounce me as soon as I landed. +1 Kerbalnaut stranded due to bouncing too much and a few of my engines falling off.

Something I noticed while trying this: The radial thrusters are much easier for me to use as Lander thrusters, and do decently for going from point to point as well :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on November 13, 2012, 06:18:01 am
(Still slowly reading through this thread, and on page 57 with a top-page date of 2011-07-26, but thought I better post this right now anyway.)

There are some situations where a link to XKCD can seem completely and utterly appropriate, and this is such a situation (http://xkcd.com/1133/)!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 13, 2012, 08:45:40 am
Spoiler: Version 0.18 screenshots, found on a Russian KSP community website (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 13, 2012, 10:09:35 am
I have never been physically attracted to a spacecraft before... That all may have just changed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 13, 2012, 12:23:02 pm
I... Uh...
wow, just wow.

kaian-a-coel cancel everything: going to space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 13, 2012, 12:32:58 pm
0.18 is only infinity years away, so get cracking!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 13, 2012, 12:52:23 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 13, 2012, 12:32:58 pm
0.18 is only infinity years away, so get cracking!
The website where I've found the screenshots claims that 0.18 will probably be released in December.
Then again, the new release will probably break earlier mods and introduce a lot of bugs... It would take a while to polish it with patches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Uneron on November 13, 2012, 01:29:55 pm
Long time reader, first time yadda dadda...

Lets get down to buisness. First off, me bragging:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Took freaking long too...

More importantly I've looked and googled around and haven't found any mentioning of the use of the turbines. I GUESS they pump oxygen to the engines, thereby allowing to fly in greater hights, but not much else. Now, as an aerospike is actually less effective when under high athmosphere, does that mean a turbine would hinder an aerospike? Has anyone done SCIENCE on this matter?

Edit: Typo 1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2012, 01:56:05 pm
So far as I can figure, the turbines are purely decorative, but I have not done any extensive testing on them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on November 13, 2012, 02:41:55 pm
I *think* they help with cooling the engine they are "linked" to. I've noticed that some engines with an associated intake are usually overheating to a lesser degree than ones that lack it.

It's not terribly useful though, I've never heard of a turbojet engine overheating to the degree of exploding. It's possible that if this is true, they might be having some other effect.

I haven't don't extensive testing though, so don't really quote me on this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Uneron on November 13, 2012, 03:07:17 pm
Hmmm, if they are cooling they would be pretty awesome for these atomic engines, though that wouldn't work in space. Also I guess turbines only work for jet engines. Then again, apperently wings do work in space, so perhaps turbines work there too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 14, 2012, 07:35:25 am
Right now all intakes and extra chambers are purely decorative. In 0.18, there will be functioning intakes that will be required for the functioning of air-breathing engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 14, 2012, 10:44:01 am
They do do one useful thing- they absorb heat passively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Uneron on November 14, 2012, 02:41:30 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 14, 2012, 10:44:01 am
They do do one useful thing- they absorb heat passively.

Wait, there is passive heat absorption? Does this apply to parts other then turbines, too? If so, are there effective ways of keeping an engine cool (thinking about atomic engine here)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 14, 2012, 02:53:04 pm
Struts worked some time ago  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 20, 2012, 08:51:55 am
Spoiler: New screenshots from the upcoming 0.18, anyone? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on November 20, 2012, 09:09:29 am
Are those airports?

Is that a Kerbonaut walking around inside a craft?

Is that a constituent-vehicle selection menu?

And damn those new models look nice.  I wonder if they've been hiring modders or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 20, 2012, 09:13:15 am
Currently salivating over the possibilities of orbital docking, refueling, etc.

Also the ability to rename craft and assign them a designation like 'probe' is kinda nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Micro102 on November 20, 2012, 12:42:09 pm
Uh oh, my imagination is running wild again.

Imagining rival space programs fighting for dominance over space, being funded by corporations, and building bigger and more expensive ships while going to war and building bases around the solar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 20, 2012, 12:59:04 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 20, 2012, 09:09:29 am
And damn those new models look nice.  I wonder if they've been hiring modders or something.

That's been the case for most of their recent hires.

C7 and NovaSilisko, were hired because of their modding skills, and I know at least a few others were hired out of the community for one reason or another.

I agree though. Every taste I get of this just makes me want it more.

Also *squee* gravel airstrips! I'd scoff at any other simulation game doing that for space landings. (Although I know the shuttle could land in the middle of the desert if needed) But gravel strips and Quonset hut hangars is just... so Kerbal.

Plans... so many plans. I think I'm most excited for the map planning mode though. Going to make flying much less trial and errory. Which, was good for learning, but still bad when you have to do it even for routine flights until you've got a dozen under your belt and can do them in your sleep.

Personally I could care less for the potential for war, although a good old fashioned space race might not be out of place.

We seem to be getting a lot more than we bargained for in this coming update. Originally it was "no docking in .18." Then it was "we're focusing just on the sound aspect". Now... all this... I'm just blown away. This will probably make just the second game I'm happy to have been an early adopter of.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 20, 2012, 05:16:55 pm
what, even if a game showed up based on Coyote?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 20, 2012, 06:51:57 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 20, 2012, 09:09:29 am
Are those airports?
Airport, singular. During one of the KSPTV streams the artist (named Nova?) figured it would be cool to have a runway to land on. He said that those islands the main runway is pointing at are there because he wanted players to have a goal to reach for their first planes, and having a runway there will only make it that much of a sweeter success =p
Quote
Is that a Kerbonaut walking around inside a craft?
No, that's the inside of the "tuna can" command pod pictured on top of the large orange fuel tank in image 4. it's a 2 crew command pod and is simply a cylinder, allowing large parts to be placed on both sides (I believe.) There is also a 4 crew pod that is larger and meant to be used as a living quarters, on a space station for example. It has no IVA currently though.
Quote
Is that a constituent-vehicle selection menu?
That's a vehicle renaming menu. You can now rename your crafts even mid-mission, so you can have models of crafts saved in your VAB and each one can have their own little name. The vehicle type selection thing mainly determines how long the object can exist before the game deletes it. Space stations and bases will pretty much never be deleted, while space debris has a pretty low priority. They also change the ship's icon in the map and tracking views so you can differentiate them better.
Quote
And damn those new models look nice.  I wonder if they've been hiring modders or something.
As far as I know they have done a complete art pass on every ship part. The old solid boosters look nice, the old grey fuel tanks look nice, everything looks nice. Also, now when you put a decoupler on the bottom of an engine it puts the engine in a shroud/fairing (whatever they are) so that the entire rocket will look super spiffy. Look at the last image, it's where the large tank is connected to the rest of the plane. It's covered in a shroud, but in the other images the shroud is gone. There's also a new docking port that's inside a 1 meter cylinder, so it fits on most rockets, but you can activate it and it opens a door and pops the docking port out.

They've also made it so if an object has no direct 'path' to the sun it will be in total darkness, making those floodlights necessary for landing on the dark side of moons and planets that are... dark. Floodlights also use battery energy which can be recharged using solar panels... which need sunlight.

Oh, they
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on November 20, 2012, 06:55:41 pm
Quote
Oh, they
They what? WHAT?!  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 20, 2012, 07:16:41 pm
I would have loved to tell you had bay12 not derped out on me. Now that it's back I've forgotten what it was I wished to say. The issue is I don't know how much you guys already know and how much of this is just repeating what you already know. Might as well just say a bunch of stuff in hopes of covering it all.

Intake ports work now, and radial intake ports have been added for jet engines. Kerbinless command pods (in 2 varieties from what I can tell) are in so you may create probes, they will require electrical energy and once the batteries run out the command pod will not respond to control input. Multiple command pods per vessel, however the first one placed will be the 'root' one and full of kerbonauts, the rest empty. Ion engines that use batteries and xenon fuel, the engines are far more powerful than they would be in reality for gameplay/fun purposes.
Resources (fuel, electrical energy, modded resources) can be transferred between ships through docking ports, or shut off for whatever reason. Action groups set to the number keys can perform user-set actions per vehicle, so you can create a ship that toggles an upper stage's engines with the press of the 1 key, or an emergency shutdown that toggles engines off and boosts the command pod away from the rest of the ship, for example. Flight planning, but I think we've already seen it. Multiple flight plans within flight plans to coordinate each part of your flight.

The game has also been reported to have a 'vast improvement' in terms of how well it runs. The mod that slows time during heavy physics calculations is also in natively, in the form of a slider. If you want the game to always run the same speed but cut out frames everywhere then turn it down, but if you want to see every detail of your ship exploding turn it up. Also useful for piloting complex crafts that physics calulations would otherwise make it impossible to fly due to framerate issues.

Also, I don't know if any of those pictures showed, but there are now girder-type structures you can place, useful for lightweight probe construction or just for structure in general.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on November 21, 2012, 01:19:57 am
Any word if they are going to add official "rescue" pods? Just places for Kerbalnaughts to climb into that start out empty. I have a lot of stranded minis-in-ites.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 21, 2012, 01:29:57 am
Quote from: OzyTheSage on November 20, 2012, 07:16:41 pm
Also, I don't know if any of those pictures showed, but there are now girder-type structures you can place, useful for lightweight probe construction or just for structure in general.
You mean, these girders? (http://cs411916.userapi.com/v411916797/4c41/14rd9FwVB20.jpg)
Quote from: Fikes on November 21, 2012, 01:19:57 am
Any word if they are going to add official "rescue" pods? Just places for Kerbalnaughts to climb into that start out empty. I have a lot of stranded minis-in-ites.
It'll be possible to add multiple command modules, so (apparently) you can attach an empty standard command module to an unmanned probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 21, 2012, 02:02:46 am
I cannot wait to launch myself a large station piece by piece, before docking multiple splace planes to it. Or sending a refueling depot to jool. Or sending probes to anywhere. Or landing a fully fueled space plane on Laythe and relaunching it. The multiple parts of the game seem like they're coming together in many interconnecting ways that will up the possibilities 10 fold this update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 21, 2012, 02:31:04 am
Quote from: OzyTheSage on November 20, 2012, 07:16:41 pm
Resources (fuel, electrical energy, modded resources) can be transferred between ships through docking ports, or shut off for whatever reason. Action groups set to the number keys can perform user-set actions per vehicle, so you can create a ship that toggles an upper stage's engines with the press of the 1 key, or an emergency shutdown that toggles engines off and boosts the command pod away from the rest of the ship, for example. Flight planning, but I think we've already seen it. Multiple flight plans within flight plans to coordinate each part of your flight.

No. Fucking. Way.
This is Über Control Pack.
Escape towers, refuelling, perfect control!
Will I be able to shut-down my liquid engines and activate my air engines with a button press? and reverse it?

When this comes out we gotta have a Laythe and back race! It will finally be doable!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 21, 2012, 02:49:34 am
KSP version 0.18 will not be compatible with earlier saved games, for obvious reasons.

Also, that's how the the abovementioned action groups are set up in the dev. build:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 21, 2012, 03:00:34 am
Will we be able to alter control schemes in orbit?
I'm thinking that you'd want to change the controls if you dock multiple parts that have to work together.
Otherwise you'd have to plan really carefully.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on November 21, 2012, 07:49:37 am
Quote from: ank on November 21, 2012, 03:00:34 am
Will we be able to alter control schemes in orbit?
I'm thinking that you'd want to change the controls if you dock multiple parts that have to work together.
Otherwise you'd have to plan really carefully.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/294-Yet-Another-Docking-Update-Docking-Controls (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/294-Yet-Another-Docking-Update-Docking-Controls)

looks like they changed/updated how you control the ship, if thats what you meant.

Quote from: OzyTheSage on November 20, 2012, 07:16:41 pm
Resources (fuel, electrical energy, modded resources) can be transferred between ships through docking ports, or shut off for whatever reason.

whoo a new energy resource.
i always thought about spacestations and "moon-ground-stations" like a mix of the games "SS13" and "Space Colony".

there would be a "building designer" building where you can design blueprints of spacestations or parts of spacestations that you dock to other parts and even buildings that you can build on other planets.

the building would be with a bunch of 1x2x1 tubes (connecting rooms) and 1x1x1x blocks (bunch of them make rooms) a bit like the "SS13" station is build up or the "buildingdomes" in Space Colony.
and each block/room could be have equipment build at the inside walls (consoles/chairs/lamps/storages) or outside walls (ladders/mechanical arms/solar panels) or both (i.e. airlocks).

building them could be with construction modules, when used with a kerbin you could select a saved blueprint that "howers" in space near the construction module (some console/construction arm).
in space the start of a station could always be a airlock/docking part that would act as "anchor/root/start" for the other parts.
on the ground the construction module could create a foundation where you then start build the building "blocks" on.

the blueprint is a new "ship" that needs to be build yourself then.
either with shipping complete parts near the construction module (arm grabs it and moves it to the required place and welds it together, maybe there are "rails" outside of the "airlock root" similar to ladders where the construction arm could move along to further away areas of the blueprint.)
or inside crates, that you load into new storage parts (might open on the sides? with little arms that move the crates out?) and that then is used with the construction module. maybe kerbals could move them around too... but i wonder how it would look like when they carry a crate... well maybe they drag or push it around... probably less a issue in space where they could float it through airlocks... well probably easyest to just be used with the construction module.... like:

the more you add on a blueprint the more full parts or crates you need to move to space to make the whole blueprint.
a little station might be something like:
30 room blocks, 1 bed, 1 table, 1 chair, 3 consoles, 4 solar panels, 10 lights, 24 ladders, 1 airlock, 12 storagecrates (food, batteries, airtanks etc containers to storage resources basically.).

and each small storage part that you can load with crates to move them to space (imagine a empty fueltank) might hold 10 crates and a big storage part 30.

and with the resources and added storage room equipment and consoles and all each building/station could produce/need several different resources like:
energy (consoles use it, solarpanels/generators produce it),water (made from mined ice?),air (plants produce air),food (made by hydroponics equipment),minerals (mined on planets, used for construction/research).
and everything a station/ship produces/needs would be simple +- numbers (i.e. each console -1 energy, each solarpanel +1 energy, each kerbin -1food and -1air) or a maintenance info button in the tracking station that shoes these numbers and avaiable storage and how many days/weeks/months it lasts.
and you could move the resources around with the storage crates. i.e. transport more food from a moon base to a spacestation.



----------------------------------
but the KSP devs are pretty awesome in what they do... the solar panels/dockign and energy recource are a great start to stations.
so i guess they will come up with a fun stuff/mechanics for stations, probably with the "inside kerbal movement" (IVA?) might add a bunch of stuff to do for kerbals inside parts/stations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 10:39:43 am
iva. now, if they had a way so that we can go and start a colony several light-years away...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2012, 01:03:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 10:39:43 am
iva. now, if they had a way so that we can go and start a colony several light-years away...
Light years away? Can we get the ability to start a colony in our own solar system first?

Also perhaps put some things on Kerbin itself?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 01:47:49 pm
why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2012, 02:09:32 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 01:47:49 pm
why?
Why not?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 02:22:18 pm
exactly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2012, 02:22:57 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 02:22:18 pm
exactly.
So you agree with me?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 02:31:38 pm
no, im just saying why not allow colonies in other solarsystems before adding cities to our own world.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2012, 02:40:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 02:31:38 pm
no, im just saying why not allow colonies in other solarsystems before adding cities to our own world.
Because it doesn't make logical sense to colonize a distant solar system when you can't even colonize a world in the local system? Or even the planet you live on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on November 21, 2012, 03:04:07 pm
Even if they did add in the capability to go interstellar and make colonies, there isn't any reason you wouldn't be able to use the same tech to make colonies on the existing planets of the Kerbin solar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2012, 03:08:12 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on November 21, 2012, 03:04:07 pm
Even if they did add in the capability to go interstellar and make colonies, there isn't any reason you wouldn't be able to use the same tech to make colonies on the existing planets of the Kerbin solar system.
I know that, I'm just poking fun. Stop spoiling it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 04:24:21 pm
but its so much fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 21, 2012, 06:09:39 pm
Quote from: Nelia Hawk on November 21, 2012, 07:49:37 am
and with the resources and added storage room equipment and consoles and all each building/station could produce/need several different resources like:
energy (consoles use it, solarpanels/generators produce it),water (made from mined ice?),air (plants produce air),food (made by hydroponics equipment),minerals (mined on planets, used for construction/research).
and everything a station/ship produces/needs would be simple +- numbers (i.e. each console -1 energy, each solarpanel +1 energy, each kerbin -1food and -1air) or a maintenance info button in the tracking station that shoes these numbers and available storage and how many days/weeks/months it lasts.
and you could move the resources around with the storage crates. i.e. transport more food from a moon base to a spacestation.
If you look at KSP .18 you will find that there are resources stored within tanks (oxidizer, liquid fuel, electrical energy, xenon gas, etc.). In conjuction with the planned feature "Saving Parts: The ability to save parts and reuse them in a different ship, like a lander" there could be a potentially more elegant solution. You pack a ship full of construction resources which will later be used up as the base is constructed. You would then go to the Mun, or wherever you wish to have your base located with your rocket, and actually design the building right on-site sort of like the old roller coaster tycoon games where you created your roller coasters to suit the surroundings. Because of the future ability to save parts in the VAB you should be able to simply load a pre-designed base if you wish.

Then your kerbonauts would begin construction, using robotic arms built on the ship (or even a construction rover you designed, once those are in) to help place the structures. It would be neat if you had to manually move the arm, so you needed to actually build the base yourself. Or screw around and toss your kerbonauts with the arm =3

Exploring Kerbin itself would be cool, and while the artists aren't busy they could be working on that.

My keyboard is dying so I'm off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 22, 2012, 02:35:14 am
This update sounds soooo cool. I can't wait to toy with it, especially the path-programming and the docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 22, 2012, 11:32:23 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 21, 2012, 04:24:21 pm
but its so much fun!
STaring at a screen for at least 4.4 years doesn't meet my definition of fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 22, 2012, 02:03:31 pm
I think that some of those video actually have a count down to the interesting part so you can skip if you want

er. nevermind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 01:44:51 pm
the .18 changelog.

is it out? I don't know, it doesn't say.
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/343-The-0-18-Changelog
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 01:46:31 pm
The devs have sent release candidates of .18 to reviewers on YouTube, so I guess it's very close to release date.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 01:50:59 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 01:46:31 pm
The devs have sent release candidates of .18 to reviewers on YouTube, so I guess it's very close to release date.

link link link!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 01:55:06 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 01:50:59 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 01:46:31 pm
The devs have sent release candidates of .18 to reviewers on YouTube, so I guess it's very close to release date.

link link link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY-mDO2_2q4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPUh8L3mvdo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnD2l1dxngE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js2ghUpbrS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ6gYVJHGMc

Here you go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 02:03:15 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 27, 2012, 01:58:08 pm
He said 'link link link', not 'link link link link link' >:(

If you're gonna link things, at least link the correct number :P

Alright, let's just say that the fourth and the fifth links are bonus links!  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 02:04:51 pm
there is another sun!
there is another sun!!!

holding breath.
passes o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 27, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 02:04:51 pm
there is another sun!
there is another sun!!!

holding breath.
passes out
whait, what? where? :O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 03:28:31 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on November 27, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 02:04:51 pm
there is another sun!
there is another sun!!!

holding breath.
passes out
whait, what? where? :O


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 27, 2012, 03:38:44 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 03:28:31 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on November 27, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 02:04:51 pm
there is another sun!
there is another sun!!!

holding breath.
passes out
whait, what? where? :O


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No, it's just Jool with satellites.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 03:40:36 pm
look top right, non bottom left.

the image scrolls quite a bit. I forgot to resize it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 27, 2012, 03:43:57 pm
I'm afraid he's right. I see only one sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 27, 2012, 03:46:15 pm
my bad, I got the colors wrong of orbitals. oh well, sorry 'bout that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 27, 2012, 03:57:58 pm
Race to the new sun!
Ready! Set!........... waiting for update......
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 27, 2012, 06:37:12 pm
So the official changelog came out. Now we must play the waiting game.

First thing I do in .18 is cause a LOT of explosions. But as soon as Mechjeb is updated, I'm going to establish a low orbit assembly staging location. Launching tank after tank of fuel, I will use mechjeb to synchronize them to orbit at the same location each time. Docking carefully, I will assemble a ship made up of a massive quantity of fuel tanks connected to a fundamentally simple "collar" type nuclear rocket system. I will use the absurdly huge quantity of total thrust this provides to launch a massive Kerbal Habitat to Duna. Where, no doubt, it will land safely at over ten thousand km per second.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 28, 2012, 02:06:34 am
this docking and refueling thing is awesome, but I'm even more interested in the flight planner. I hope that changes you can make are bounded to the possibilities of your craft
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 28, 2012, 05:33:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 28, 2012, 02:06:34 am
this docking and refueling thing is awesome, but I'm even more interested in the flight planner. I hope that changes you can make are bounded to the possibilities of your craft
They aren't. You are given a readout of the delta-v required for your maneuvers though, as well as the predicted thrust duration (so that you can use fuel use per second as a gauge rather than delta-v).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on November 28, 2012, 06:09:56 am
I'm a bit behind the curve, but in a prior version I was going to see if I could mod in a module that (for significant weight penalty) when activated would accept simple orientation instructions to pass to the controls so that you could make the long but low burns that I always favoured (but need regular attention to adjust the aim for, as you go round the orbit, rather than either tumbling randomly or always pointing in the same direction w.r.t. stellar references, and as such could point the wrong direction half the time).  I was also considering even longer duration/lower impulse thrust via ion-drive addition[1].  With that always directed in the direction of the orbit (or perpendicular to it, or some other marked angle) I was hoping to emulate the SMART mission, somewhat, with a long-duration low-fuel transit.

It would not be a full-on auto-pilot, of course.  Although I'd also wondered about a crewless module that you only pre-program, and can't control much at all once launched[2].  Perhaps coupled with a sighting-module (again not cheap, weight-wise) to allow something like "aim 15 degrees ahead of moon position" for some or all of the time it is activated.

Anyway:
a) It's probably already been done by other modders (and there's a large amount of this thread that I've still to read through, where such might be mentioned), who have more time on their hands,
b) I note that Ion drive and better plane-defined auto-orientation (if I understand it correctly, what I was looking to emulate) are now in the game.  (Or about to be in, anyway, at least to facilitate in-orbit dockings).

As such, I may well be satisfied.  Or at least differently-frustrated!

(Strange how I want to implement mods myself (and know myself to be capable of it, I just need the free time), when I'm actually quite averse to using other people's mods to 'adulterate' the purity of the original game release.  It's a strange ethic. ;))


[1] For which I was going to need to have added something like a specialist tank of accelerant fuel (xenon?), plus my own version of (heavy) nuclear power generation unit or (atmospherically vulnerable) solar panels.  Again, I see that at least some of this is part of the newer release, if not in the current one that I've not fully acquainted myself with yet!

[2] I sort of assume, in my own particular version of Kerbal reality, that Jeb/whoever is the pilot, as your proxy, rather than being directed by CapCom that just happens to have three Kerbonauts strapped into it the can because the planet apparently lacks dogs and monkeys...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 28, 2012, 04:34:48 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 27, 2012, 04:10:59 pm
Quote from: ank on November 27, 2012, 03:57:58 pm
Race to the new sun!
Ready! Set!........... waiting for update......
Ready! Set! NO SUN!
Could someone explain to me what the glowy thing in the top-right is then?
A new planet that isn't orbiting around the sun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 28, 2012, 04:42:22 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 28, 2012, 04:34:48 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 27, 2012, 04:10:59 pm
Quote from: ank on November 27, 2012, 03:57:58 pm
Race to the new sun!
Ready! Set!........... waiting for update......
Ready! Set! NO SUN!
Could someone explain to me what the glowy thing in the top-right is then?
A new planet that isn't orbiting around the sun?
Well, it's the sun! the one and only one! Where do you see a SECOND one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 28, 2012, 04:48:12 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on November 28, 2012, 04:42:22 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 28, 2012, 04:34:48 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 27, 2012, 04:10:59 pm
Quote from: ank on November 27, 2012, 03:57:58 pm
Race to the new sun!
Ready! Set!........... waiting for update......
Ready! Set! NO SUN!
Could someone explain to me what the glowy thing in the top-right is then?
A new planet that isn't orbiting around the sun?
Well, it's the sun! the one and only one! Where do you see a SECOND one?
Dunno, everyone was saying that was the second one. Then the rest of it seemed to deny its existence as a second one, rather than pointing out that there was no other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 28, 2012, 05:16:12 pm
I just got a fun project idea. Kerbal Power Plant: Put a huge solar farm in orbit, then launch pods up to dock, charge up, and return the electricity to the surface.

More realistically, try to set up a Kerbosyncronous power sat right over KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 28, 2012, 05:20:10 pm
you know what will happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 28, 2012, 06:11:17 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 28, 2012, 04:48:12 pm
Dunno, everyone was saying that was the second one. Then the rest of it seemed to deny its existence as a second one, rather than pointing out that there was no other.
Here's what I see in the image (haven't seen the videos yet)

Bottom half of the image appears to be... a planet with moons maybe? Top half of the image is primarily blank, except the right side has what appears to be a large star with something orbiting it, along with another object that appears to be somehow stationary, and then a spaceship that appears to, again, be completely stationary somehow, or it's orbiting a somehow stationary planet on an axial tilt. The way it's displayed is really awkward, since those 'stationary' objects would go straight into the star if they had no orbit of any sort, not just sit out in space minding their own business.

I... don't get it either. What the heck is going on in that picture? Is the bottom half of the picture a planet, and if so, what is it orbiting? Or is it sitting out in space with no velocity relative to anything somehow?

Maybe watching the videos will clear this up...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 28, 2012, 06:48:10 pm
Oh yeah, it doesn't show the orbital line for the main body you're zoomed in on...

That second 'planet' from Kerbol still kinda confuses me though...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 29, 2012, 12:51:02 am
It's Eve's satellite I guess. The color match somewhat. Or it is Duna, which appear closer to the sun by optical illusion (But color problem). And the spaceship to the right of kerbol is orbiting Kerbin. You can spot it right behind the little ship, with a small line that is its orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 29, 2012, 07:11:53 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/30131-Kerbalkon!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 29, 2012, 12:14:17 pm
Yup, watch the little video on their front page if you haven't already =3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cFehUQojGkU
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 29, 2012, 04:02:15 pm
It'd be really, really, really nice if they'd release the dam update already :P
But I guess we'll get it on Monday.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on November 29, 2012, 05:45:27 pm
Where does it say we get it on monday? Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 29, 2012, 05:50:17 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on November 29, 2012, 05:45:27 pm
Where does it say we get it on monday? Did I miss something?
Did you see the word guess?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on November 29, 2012, 06:06:20 pm
Sorry, tone of voice is hard to get right over the internet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on November 29, 2012, 08:25:27 pm
I'm hoping they'll announce a release date tomorrow during the thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on November 29, 2012, 08:52:29 pm
I'd say that the odds are that it'll be released on Monday is about 1 in 7.

(I, of course, am not saying which Monday.  And I'm sure you can make an even better estimate if you analyse previous release dates to see if the devteam have ever apparently worked to a conclusion on (or for) a weekend, whether they favour start-of-week releases compared with end-of-week ones, or if mid-week releases seem to be their usual habit.  Or else avoided.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 30, 2012, 01:31:05 am
They do favor start of the week releases :P
Thank god,
which is why my guess Is for this Monday.

Anyone who's played Wurm Online will know how bad of an idea Friday updates are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 01:37:17 am
I think the devs will show us some more footage of version 0.18 on Kerbalkon and then keep on polishing it until Christmas. Then they will release it on the 23th or the 24th of December.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 30, 2012, 03:49:46 am
Let's prepare for the update with a Bay12 KSP challenge!

My first major mission will be a return trip to Laithe, since it should be possible now.
I intend to dock a landing stage to an interplanetary stage in Kerth orbit, then piggyback on the inter stage, leave it in orbit around Laithe, land, explore, relaunch, redock with the inter stage and fly home.

To achieve this end, there is multiple problems to solve first:

The Challenge:

Step 1: Make the lightest possible 3m pod craft capable of going into orbit, with enough fuel to leave a little wiggle room.
It also has to land back on Kerth. Make sure there is a practical place to put a docking clamp.

Step 2: Make a lifting rocket that can bring the entire craft from step 1, into orbit.

Step 3: Do the Relaunch! Go to orbit, land, and go to orbit again(I know this can be done)

Bonus stage: Make the interplanetary stage just to show.

Rules:
1: Don't talk about Bay12
2: Stop referencing Fight Club!
3: Only stock parts!
4: Avoid aerospikes since they will be nerfed in the next version.
5: Pictures or it didn't happen
6: Post updates as you solve each part of the challenge, you don't have to wait, till you have done all steps.

Ready, Set, GO!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 04:51:53 am
I'll go for a proper LOR mission
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on November 30, 2012, 05:52:33 am
Wouldn't it be easier to just make a SSTO rocket and refuel it in orbit?

Anyway, working on it -- currently gets up to about 30,000 meters before having to dip into the second orbit stages. But that can be fixed with MOAR ROCKETS.

A little apprehensive about the Kerbin landing though, not sure how many parachutes it will take to slow down that much fuel...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 08:54:49 am
KerbalKon starting in about 5 minutes.

http://www.twitch.tv/KerbalSP (http://www.twitch.tv/KerbalSP)


EDIT: Yay, turning fans into social networking marketing schills... Screw you Damian.

EDITEDIT: Couldn't watch them... community managers are douches. C7 gets on in 40 minutes... so maybe it'll get better then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 09:05:10 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 09:48:17 am
Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 08:54:49 am

Couldn't watch them... community managers are douches. C7 gets on in 40 minutes... so maybe it'll get better then.

We know that, but what did they do this time around?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 30, 2012, 09:50:41 am
Quote from: Kanil on November 30, 2012, 05:52:33 am
Wouldn't it be easier to just make a SSTO rocket and refuel it in orbit?

Kinda.

My SSTO isn't even able to land on kerbin with a full load of fuel. Dropping it into the atmosphere in laythe, which requires even more lift to support weight than kerbin due to thinner air, would end with a high speed crash into the ground. A near SSTO with a much larger amount of wing area would do the trick. It probably wouldn't need the extra fuel that it had for the booster stage to get into kerbin orbit to get into the laythe orbit though, but if it did docking could be used to re add boosters.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 09:56:05 am
0.18 playthrough and devtalk coming in 5 minutes!
http://www.twitch.tv/KerbalSP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 10:55:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 09:48:17 am
Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 08:54:49 am

Couldn't watch them... community managers are douches. C7 gets on in 40 minutes... so maybe it'll get better then.

We know that, but what did they do this time around?

"Hey, make these crappy paper Kerbal masks and we MIGHT give you a prize if you stick your picture with it on on your facebooks and twitter and oh yeah! Follow us and like us and tell all your friends and be annoying about it all! So... yeah, we've got 50 minutes to go till anything interesting happens... We'll just be annoying assholes till then. FACEBOOK FACEBOOK FACEBOOK!!!"

Now C7 is streaming and they're still being annoying, but at least C7 is there, and he's somewhat cool and there's actual stuff to look at. And there might be an "announcement" in 5-10 minutes... but there are several "announcements" scheduled throughout the day.

Also, they're being really cagey about whether it's being released today or not. They're not saying no, which I feel like would be a really easy answer. I doubt it's like they're just going to go "oh, hey, I guess we got enough done today, during this big event, sure, we'll release it." So, it's either a probable yes, and they're just being assholes about it, or it's a definite no, and they just don't want people to leave the stream once they know for sure that things won't be available today. Also, if it's the former, they're doing a terrible job of keeping secrets. If it's the latter, again, assholes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 10:59:23 am
Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 10:55:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 09:48:17 am
Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 08:54:49 am

Couldn't watch them... community managers are douches. C7 gets on in 40 minutes... so maybe it'll get better then.

We know that, but what did they do this time around?

"Hey, make these crappy paper Kerbal masks and we MIGHT give you a prize if you stick your picture with it on on your facebooks and twitter and oh yeah! Follow us and like us and tell all your friends and be annoying about it all! So... yeah, we've got 50 minutes to go till anything interesting happens... We'll just be annoying assholes till then. FACEBOOK FACEBOOK FACEBOOK!!!"

Now C7 is streaming and they're still being annoying, but at least C7 is there, and he's somewhat cool and there's actual stuff to look at. And there might be an "announcement" in 5-10 minutes... but there are several "announcements" scheduled throughout the day.
Good developers, terrible hosts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 12:22:04 pm
Apparently, the developers can't even play their own game. Oh my god.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on November 30, 2012, 12:24:12 pm
It was pretty funny when he was about to crash straight into the Mun and tried to fix it by burning straight into it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on November 30, 2012, 12:24:47 pm
well, who said that developers should be good at their own game? all they need to be able to do is code it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 12:37:56 pm
Well it is hard to talk, follow a script, being cool and doig actual rocket science. One has to fail somewhere in it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 12:42:02 pm
Version 0.0 is hardcore as shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 30, 2012, 01:22:46 pm
The patcher they released two day ago? It complains about being outdated.

Get ahead of the masses and go get the new one! (I've tried it on the mac don't know if it applies to win as well)

Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 10:55:55 am
"Hey, make these crappy Kerbal masks

speaking of wich...

Spoiler: just, wow (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 02:25:01 pm
So... I fell asleep at some point... but I swear I heard confirmation that .18 would be released today... I could have simply been dreaming though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 30, 2012, 02:44:40 pm
Quote from: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 02:25:01 pm
So... I fell asleep at some point... but I swear I heard confirmation that .18 would be released today... I could have simply been dreaming though.
Apparently it's not going to be released today, or tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 30, 2012, 08:37:16 pm
Something fairly important was said. Users will eventually be able to build bases on other celestial bodies and use resources there to build parts to launch a new mission to another body. You could take care of your first campaign mission to land on the Mun by going to Jool and mining and building and launching from a Joolian moon to get to Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on November 30, 2012, 08:40:32 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 30, 2012, 08:37:16 pm
Something fairly important was said. Users will eventually be able to build bases on other celestial bodies and use resources there to build parts to launch a new mission to another body. You could take care of your first campaign mission to land on the Mun by going to Jool and mining and building and launching from a Joolian moon to get to Mun.
YES.
*ahem* Sorry about that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 30, 2012, 09:27:36 pm
Didn't get to watch the whole stream but I saw a bit of it

http://kerbalspaceport.com/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 30, 2012, 10:16:27 pm
Apparently they just released it in the last 15 minutes or so. Was watching the stream on my phone, then shut it off for the trip home, now home, and the stream is over... expected another 45 minutes, but oh well, this is nice too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on November 30, 2012, 10:20:43 pm
Yep, if you get the new patcher, you can download .18!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 30, 2012, 10:32:42 pm
i want one...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on November 30, 2012, 11:07:39 pm
Currently at 40% downloading at a rate of 35 kb/s...

Why must ye be so slow!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on November 30, 2012, 11:21:23 pm
Well, so much for not releasing on fridays. Fingers crossed that there isn't a monumental bug in it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on November 30, 2012, 11:40:47 pm
The patcher instantly commits suicide when I try to open it.

Then again, this is the same as 17.1 :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 30, 2012, 11:41:42 pm
Ooh, completed clean download of Kerbal .18. Time to see if it works.

Good thing I have a 1700 kbps download rate :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on November 30, 2012, 11:50:57 pm
Would have been playing sooner had I not had to watch some stupid show. Going to try it nao-ish

Edit: Yes!!! Glorious!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 01, 2012, 01:01:07 am
Last time I played Kerbal was when the only extra terrestrial objects were the Mun and Minmus.

I tend to do that. At least it makes my returns to this game to have a greater chance of blowing my mind.

It already sorta has.

And that music.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 01, 2012, 01:42:18 am
Just completed my first orbital rendezvous and docking.
Spoiler: thar she blows (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: looking good (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: great sucess! (click to show/hide)

here's a quick rundown/guide to what I did, there might be some handy hints for people in here.
The station hub was in a 100km orbit, and i got my ship into a ~77km orbit. Set the station as the target, and then picked out the best spot to place a maneuver node so that when I made an elliptical orbit I was getting pretty dam close approach distances with the station when i intercepted the orbit, without going out to much further, to minimize speed difference at closest approach. I also corrected for inclination at ascending node. Ideally, in kerbin orbit at least, you want to get a minimum of perhaps 3-5km (i got 2.9 for this case), but less is always better.

Once you reach the closet approach point, make sure the speed reading is set to target (it should auto change). this reading is a speed relative to the target, and the navball should change showing you this direction. Burn opposite to it at the closest approach to get the reading down to zero. After that I did a small burn towards the station and slowly made my way to it, slowing down when I got there. This isn't the most efficient way, but i think its the easiest with the tools we have in the game currently.

For docking, I found that the easiest way to dock is to like up parrallel to the docking port, put ASAS on, and then use the RCS translation keys to translate. The SAS will keep the craft orientated in the same direction, which is very handy. If you want to try docking without RCS, you're a crazy person.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 01, 2012, 02:02:14 am
I just landed my first lander on the Mun. Unfortunatly, Jebediah has been stranded there, the engine being too long for the landing struts. I will fix that in the next iteration. I have also launched a satellite and a space station hub into orbit of Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 01, 2012, 03:03:57 am
I wonder will KSP still crash on my laptop every third launch due to out-of-memory errors...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 01, 2012, 04:35:38 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 01, 2012, 01:42:18 am
[DOCKING! DOCKING!]

That's probably a better method than what I ended up doing. I started by putting my target craft into a very close orbit, and had to fast forward time for quite a while since they had ended up almost on opposite sides of the planet. I also wasn't really able to figure out what all the icons on the navball represented when you target the craft, but I was eventually able to dock by burning toward the space station when it was <2 km away and then eyeballing the speeds. I'll have to play around with the docking-mode controls some more, I ended up using the old "staging mode" controls for most of the operation.

Spoiler: Station is coming along (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 01, 2012, 04:43:46 am
Has performance increased any, or has it gotten worse?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 01, 2012, 05:21:51 am
Those big solar panels... where are they? can't seem to find them in the menu's

In other news, my station has got a habitation module now. Next.. crew i guess.

edit: pictures
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 01, 2012, 05:26:20 am
Before I start an hopeless download over 3g network, does the patcher work this time aroubd or is it still aost as bad as downloading the full version in term of size and speed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 01, 2012, 05:34:11 am
Downloading now with 1MBs.
yes: M!

Well, my challenge kinda got superseded by the release, so I guess I will be replacing it with the actual return trip to Laithe mission.

Also, about docking, couldn't you do a direct launch to dock manoeuvre, by launching say 5 min before the target passed overhead? then using the flight planner?

EDIT: the time it took to write this was about the same time it took to DL KSP.
Good job on the server guys, much better than .17
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 01, 2012, 05:42:12 am
Quote from: ank on December 01, 2012, 05:34:11 am
Also, about docking, couldn't you do a direct launch to dock manoeuvre, by launching say 5 min before the target passed overhead? then using the flight planner?

Doing that makes it a hell of a lot easier, as you only need a few orbits to catch up/slow down inline with your target. if you launch on opposite sides of the planet, you're looking at more like half a dozen orbits of waiting
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 01, 2012, 06:13:07 am
God damnit, how to I keep my planes from flipping around as soon as I'm in the air?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 01, 2012, 06:24:10 am
Usually you wait for the ferram aereospace mod to come and fix the silly drag model

But make sure your wings are for the most part behind the center of gravity and try not to exceed with the angle of attack
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 01, 2012, 06:26:13 am
Quote from: Japa on December 01, 2012, 06:13:07 am
God damnit, how to I keep my planes from flipping around as soon as I'm in the air?
Put more stuff on the back.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 08:00:39 am
new version is great!

first thing I did, was to send a satellite in orbit around kerbin. worked great, but due to poor launcher design it is in a polar orbit.
second thing I did, I strapped a barometer to a solid rocket booster, and got a good idea of how atmosphere pressure changes with altitude.
which will be useful when I'll need to throttle engines in more advanced designs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2012, 09:19:32 am
The patcher is worthless right now. 6AM PST. Using alternative means.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 09:28:43 am
you sure? I used the patcher a couple of hours ago and it was fine.

edit: did you download the new patcher?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 01, 2012, 11:08:03 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 01, 2012, 05:21:51 am
Those big solar panels... where are they? can't seem to find them in the menu's

They're in the utilities menu (or whichever one has all the other solar panels), but they're listed a bit further up than the smaller designs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2012, 11:11:54 am
Quote from: andrea on December 01, 2012, 09:28:43 am
you sure? I used the patcher a couple of hours ago and it was fine.

edit: did you download the new patcher?

Yes, I did. It just sits around and crashes.

Windows version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 01, 2012, 11:16:35 am
which platform/version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Morrigi on December 01, 2012, 11:18:18 am
New patcher works for me, 10:15 CST
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 01, 2012, 11:18:51 am
Same problem as BigD here. Had it since 17.1, again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 01, 2012, 12:10:49 pm
I get a window that says:

Code: [Select]
CLR error: 80004005.
The program will now terminate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2012, 12:54:17 pm
Mine just cuts out after awhile without an error message. The last thing in the patch log is "[INFO] Waiting for server to process file manifest..."

Oh well. There is a torrent and it works. I'm a legitimate customer that bought when it was first offered at $7 or 8. The server is apparently busy and I've just avoided making it busier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 12:56:17 pm
trying my first rendez-vous. using the planner, I think I can get closer than a kilometer to target. which is still way too far, however. I'll see when I get there, I guess. any tips?

edit: it was too dark to see the station. despite it having light.
oh, well. the bad part is that I don't have much fuel left, and neither I have parachutes. poor kerbonauts!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2012, 01:29:38 pm
You might want to try the Romfarer lazor system. It has nightvision.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 01, 2012, 01:35:32 pm
Patiently waiting for mods to update. I wants my mechjeb or some other autopilot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 01:43:16 pm
well, 0.18 makes aiming for other stuff MUCH easier. but mechjeb would make it far less time consuming, I agree.

also, it is not the night vision i miss most. for some reason, the circles that should be around other nearby objects don't appear anymore.
edit: which I fixed, luckily.
with a bit of luck, I'll post screenshots of a space station soon! ( or a big crash, whichever happens)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 02:19:57 pm
so, it crashes just with that probe? very odd.

in other news... I am close! but lining up without an ASAS is HARD! really people, an asas is worth its weight.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 01, 2012, 02:20:45 pm
I think I may be retarded. I've sent a "permanent" lunar module base thingie to the mun, sent probes and manned ships to almost all bodies but yet I can't even rendevouz two ships and sucessfully dock them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 01, 2012, 02:21:04 pm
Neither can I, haha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 02:26:46 pm
well, it too me the better part of an afternoon to get the ships that close.

( and I am still unable to send stuff farther than minmus. can't bring enough Delta-v to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 01, 2012, 02:28:31 pm
i still have yet to orbit in the demo. i wish i had money for this...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 01, 2012, 02:35:59 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 01, 2012, 02:26:46 pm
well, it too me the better part of an afternoon to get the ships that close.

( and I am still unable to send stuff farther than minmus. can't bring enough Delta-v to orbit.
My first rocket (Yes my first rocket,the very first one) that managed to get out of the atmos actually was an OP'd son of a bitch, slingshoted in the mun gravitational field and went into a orbit about the same size as the Jool one.

Edit:forgot my pro tip
PROTIP: Use the mun gravitational field to get past minmus without wasting lots of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 01, 2012, 02:43:43 pm
i have managed to orbit the sun and even to exit system, but never to orbit kerbel...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 02:45:44 pm
I managed to get 2 crafts to almost touch, dock port to dock port, but not straight enough to dock...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 01, 2012, 04:00:30 pm
Apparently, improved physics means the Mainsails are absurdly wobbly. The only reason Communications Relay Epsilon is going into any sort of orbit is because I stuck 20 RCS thrusters on the thing. Bluh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 04:05:59 pm
also, I am now semi confident that the cross shaped thing doesn't actually have clamps included.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 01, 2012, 04:35:34 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 01, 2012, 04:01:42 pm
GAAAAAH! Getting things close enough to dock is almost impossible.

I'm waiting for MechJeb to be updated...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2012, 04:43:08 pm
me too. took me hours to get 2 crafts close enough ( although that was partially because rocket kept exploding).
and then I discovered I didn't have docking clamps!

but still...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 01, 2012, 07:36:24 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 01, 2012, 04:05:59 pm
also, I am now semi confident that the cross shaped thing doesn't actually have clamps included.

I believe you are correct.  I had to manually add docking ports onto the one I shipped up there.

However, I did finally manage to (a) ship the multi-way hub up into a more-or-less circular orbit, then (b) rendezvous and dock with it with another, subsequent rocket!  :D

Need to rework my lifter design, though - burned through my fuel so quickly on (b) that I ended up having to do all my orbital adjustments with RCS.  Not close-up manoeuvring - orbital adjustments.  Of dozens of kilometres of difference.  It was not fun, and I ended up having to try and match the damn spin of the station hub at the same time as equalising the orbits.  Luckily, after bumping into it at very low speeds a few times, the automatic docking kicked in and locked me in.   :P

Then I ended the flight, and now it just registers in the tracking office as 'debris'.  Should I not have ended it that way?  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 01, 2012, 07:56:48 pm
Spoiler: The Twin Mk 1 SSTO, never reached orbit velocity (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mk 2, higher altitude but no orbit (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flying, FOR SCIENCE! Also, I spy a runway below (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Skybee Mk 3, so close! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mk 4, almost there! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mk 5, PARTY TIME! With 88 units of fuel left in the tank (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 01, 2012, 08:21:39 pm
Got my first probe into stable orbit around Kerbin, using the ion drive to correct the orbit path once it was up there. Awesome! What exactly do the communication satellite things do? Also I'm disliking how wobbly the mainsail engines are on the landing pad now. I hope that get fixed soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 01, 2012, 11:15:23 pm
I'm pretty sure antennas can remotely control other spacecraft if you are close.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 01, 2012, 11:29:02 pm
Welp, I suck at controlling rockets.

I'm certain that in the past when I played this some of the rockets I made were likely easily capable of reaching Mun, yet I couldn't reach it.

Now I'm likely going to be making Jool worthy rockets, but intended for Mun, and failing to reach the the target.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 01, 2012, 11:46:00 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 01, 2012, 04:05:59 pm
also, I am now semi confident that the cross shaped thing doesn't actually have clamps included.
They don't. You can find two kinds of docking clamps in the utilities tab, one big and one small. not sure if small ones can fit into big ones yet. You can rotate pieces with WSADQE and fine rotate while holding shift. Attaching docking clamps together will create a ship that is pre-docked.

So far I've made a space station and actually made a proper landing on the Mun. I left the lander there and returned the Kerbal home safely. Unfortunately the Mun is tidal locked so you wouldn't be able to see the lander from Kerbol =<

Next I might try docking with the station I made because why not?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 02, 2012, 02:46:59 am
I'm setting up a station of my own. So far just the essentials hub, and the habitat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next addition is the service module, equipped with a fleet of flitters to act as local tugs and rescue craft. Adding it would be easier if I remembered to set an action group to disable the flitters' RCS thrusters, because the whole thing is now impossible to finely control while the flitters are attached.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 04:46:13 am
HELP!

all my craft looks like shit crap

I wish I was able to make something as cool as:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31741-0-18-MunShot-X1-%28Apollo-style-craft%29

But I have zero artistic sense.

Suggestion accepted  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 02, 2012, 05:54:28 am
The docking of the service module to the station was a success.

Meet the flitter:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP18_Screens/screenshot20.png)
I'm quite happy with this design. Fast, agile, sustainable, docking ports of both sizes, lights, ASAS.. quite a loadout.

Station as of now:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flitters at work: deorbiting the pusher stage.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, the service module is a little off, but that's a docking bug. I tried undocking and redocking, and it is still offset. At least it doesn't seem to affect the connection strength.

Next up, putting some fuel tanks up there! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:12:36 am
wow, you docked so much stuff... I don't know if I would have the patience to do that. mainly since I have to design new rockets for each module, if I need to introduce variations in size or weight... and new rockets tend to explode :/
I almost made my first docking yesterday, but I clicked end flight instead of space center...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 02, 2012, 06:14:43 am
How you people manage all that mad maneuvering and design is so ...

I mean, I can't even match the orbital paths so I can meet the core I sent up ;_; I thought there was a flight planner thingy, but I can't seem to activate it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:21:34 am
click on your orbit path, and then click "add manouver" ( or something like that). a circle withh appear, showing possible thrust direction ( forward, backward, left, right, up, down). by pulling the symbols of those directions, you plan a change in your orbit, that will appear as a dotted line.

also, you can select a target. click on your target, and then on select as target.
this will highlight targets orbit, and also will show the points in which orbits are closer ( called intercepts). you will also have an arrow pointing at where target will be during intercepts. your goal is to make the intercept arrow and "target at  intercept" arrow become as close as possible. then, you can get close by aiming at target, without messing more with orbits.

you can also drag manouver points around your orbit, to see the effects of the position in which you make the Delta-V change.

near the nav ball, you will be shown time to node, and delta v required.
on the nav ball, a blue cross will show the direction in which you must thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 02, 2012, 06:25:56 am
My first mission was Apollo styled:

First i tried to make a rocket as close to Saturn 5 as I could:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But it was simply too wobly, and not powerful enough

So I built another better launch vehicle:
Launch craft:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Return module, Lander + Unlander and moonshot stage on the way to the moon:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Orbit Art:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Separation, God Speed!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the way down:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One small step for kerb, one giant leap for kerbalkind!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Returning to orbit, lander left behind:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Docking successful!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Midnight splashdown:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And it wouldn't be KSP if the mission didn't end with a fatal splashdown...
More chutes next time!


Also, apart from the first crew that flew into the moon, and this crew that splashed down fatally, no Kerbals have been lost, due to the implementation of an escape tower.
With the new control group feature, I can always save the kerbals, even if the rocket explodes on the launchpad.
I've had about 30 rockets explode, but no deaths.(Besides from the deaths incurred while testing the escape tower... gotta break some eggs I guess)


@Everybody that sucks as much at docking as I did 30 minutes ago:

1: Set you docking target as target (duh)

2: Use planning to get a close approach, anything under 10 km will do.

3: When you use the target function, your prograde and retrograde icons(the green ones) on the navball is relative to the velocity difference of your target.

4: That means: burn towards retrograde, until you have no speed difference to the target.

5: Then burn towards the target(the purple icons on the navball) Now you are heading straight for the target.

6: burn retrograde again when you get close to the target.

7: repeat steps 5-6 until you are very close, then dock using rcs and the docking mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 02, 2012, 06:34:16 am
Is there any benefit to putting parachutes on staging parts to save your empty fuel tanks yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 02, 2012, 06:45:01 am
Quote from: Chattox on December 02, 2012, 06:34:16 am
Is there any benefit to putting parachutes on staging parts to save your empty fuel tanks yet?

Cool points  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 02, 2012, 06:51:30 am
My second space station piece is a lesson in fail. ;_;
It was unable to maneuver in its third stage thanks to badly placed thrusters, and the final stage's ion engine is helplessly weak. Currently, the piece is spinning slowly in space with all seven giant panels open, waiting for its inevitable descent into sea. Seven panels, because one of them was knocked off by the detaching third stage of maneuvering fail. Siiiiigh Dx

(http://i.imgur.com/DQYeD.jpg)

As I write, it is falling into the sea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on December 02, 2012, 07:23:02 am
God damn this is a good update.

The RTG's produce a depressing ammount of power. It is also a shame you can't fast foward while using the Ion drives (slllooowww). Does ASAS (on its own) produce less rotational thrust now? (it seems to produce virtually none).

My first satellite, and I rotated the main section to fit in eveything better. This was a mistake, the result was a rocket where the mirror tool did not work properly, and being almost impossible to navigate with. My brain hurts and SAS hates me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 02, 2012, 07:34:07 am
ASAS has never produced any rotation, it merely controls all the gimbals and wings and SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 02, 2012, 07:38:41 am
Haven't played since the early demo but decided to give this another go. The update reminded me it existed and convinced me to make a purchase.

So far I've put a simple satellite into orbit and my first kerbal has orbited the moon and returned safely. The idea of landing terrifies me.

I'd really like some kind of robotic arm which can grab other craft. I know you can remove debris from orbit by selecting them on the map screen and ending the flight but I'd like to do it manually. It would be good training for docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 02, 2012, 09:21:01 am
You can dock with debris and push it down that way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 02, 2012, 09:30:09 am
Or if the debris does not have a docking clamp you can make a basket out of landing legs and just push it into deorbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 10:04:42 am
once again I try. both the earlier station modules are close.
I am modifying the orbit of the module designed to link them so that I get close with that too. when I arrive there, I discover that command pod of power module got separated from the rest of the craft!
I managed to save crew thanks to EVA, but that was the only module that could move well enough to dock with the other 2.

I think I'll never dock!
maybe I should just send a rescue craft to bring all the crew back home ( 4 kerbonauts) and start again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 02, 2012, 10:53:21 am
Just as a warning, if you intend to dock with debris and then undock again, there's a bug. You'll need to have an extra "pod" module on there somewhere to get around it. It's currently a bug, noted as fixed for 18.1, but if a ship tries to undock without a "root" (i.e. A pod or probe body) then it freaks out and the undocking doesn't actually finish. Weird stuff happens on screen and then when you switch back to the ship again from the space center, it's still docked.

Harvester got around in 18.1 it by just telling it to assign the undocked port as the "root" if it can't find anything else, but for now, you'll just need to work around it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 02, 2012, 11:19:02 am
Actually, no. The bug is only manifested if a composite vessel is docked to something, then the root of the vessel is undocked, and then the rest of the vessel is undocked. I.e. you have a station module with a tug that arrived together as the topmost part of your carrier rocket. If you dock the module to the station together with the tug, and then undock the tug, the module will lose track of itself because it kept the root reference to the tug.

If you encounter this problem by accident, you can work around it until 18.1 is out. Backup your persistence file, and look for the name of the ship that the misbehaving piece was a part of. It should be in a DOCKED_VESSEL section, and a little below it should be a "root_uid" line with a number. Replace that number with the UId of the docking port part (just scroll up slowly till you see the "Uid = <number>" line), and save - the part should now undock safely.

That's how I fixed the service module of my new station. ^_^
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 02, 2012, 12:46:39 pm
My current mission is to land a probe on Eve to see how hospitable it is. I'm leaving the docking stuff until I get a better grasp of other things.

Is it normal behaviour that a Mainsail connected to a Jumbo 64x tank overheats rapidly while the same engine connected to two X200 32x tanks barely overheats at all? I figured the 64x was just two 32x as one part.

Quote from: Peewee on December 02, 2012, 09:21:01 am
You can dock with debris and push it down that way.
No clamp on what I left in orbit after my moon mission. I guess I could put clamps on everything I expect to leave out there.

Quote from: ank on December 02, 2012, 09:30:09 am
Or if the debris does not have a docking clamp you can make a basket out of landing legs and just push it into deorbit
Not a bad idea at all. Now all I have to do is figure out how to intercept parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 02, 2012, 02:10:55 pm
Quote from: Vattic on December 02, 2012, 12:46:39 pm
My current mission is to land a probe on Eve to see how hospitable it is. I'm leaving the docking stuff until I get a better grasp of other things.

Is it normal behaviour that a Mainsail connected to a Jumbo 64x tank overheats rapidly while the same engine connected to two X200 32x tanks barely overheats at all? I figured the 64x was just two 32x as one part.

Probably not normal, but definitely there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 02, 2012, 02:41:35 pm
Quote from: ank on December 02, 2012, 06:25:56 am
My first mission was Apollo styled:
-snip-
Dude that's an huge and inneficient rocket. I've managed to land a larger module with a smaller rocket than that one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 02:47:33 pm
sooooooo close....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

turns out you have to open the clamp before getting near; the bay doors hit the station, causing the central section to break apart:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
:-\

on another topic, the node interface for maneuvers is epic, and getting to intercept distance was extremely easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 02, 2012, 02:52:15 pm
Does anyone have any tips on rocket design?
All of my rockets are too wibbly-wobbly and as a result I can't put anything into a precise equatorial orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 02, 2012, 03:03:17 pm
Can we see pictures of your wibbly-wobbly rockets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 02, 2012, 03:14:25 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 02, 2012, 02:52:15 pm
Does anyone have any tips on rocket design?
All of my rockets are too wibbly-wobbly and as a result I can't put anything into a precise equatorial orbit.
I just use struts/space tape. Because it ain't stable until it looks like a Faraday cage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 03:24:05 pm
I must agree. struts all the way!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 02, 2012, 03:36:50 pm
Quote from: Karlito on December 02, 2012, 03:03:17 pm
Can we see pictures of your wibbly-wobbly rockets?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By "wibbly-wobbly", I mean that it wobbles around during gravity turning, launching the payload into an orbit with a completely wrong inclination. I think I need to be more careful with the controls, or at least improve the control systems of the rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 03:46:00 pm
no. your problem is lack of struts. use struts to link everything that can be linked. decouplers are way too flexible/weak. you need to reinforce everything if you want tall rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 03:49:20 pm
managed to dock to a station I have to bring down, now, how do I transfer resources between tanks?



found that, you alt right click tanks and then you can set them as in-out for resources

Spoiler: mission accomplished! (click to show/hide)

it is very hard to perform orbital operations with off-axis engines, I had to use all rcs' just to keep it from rolling
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 02, 2012, 04:47:47 pm
I've finnally managed to dock something! Now the Mun has a 6 man permanent space station (Yeah I am a genius, forgot to add parachutes or anything to land). I don't know why but all my screens from the game turn black.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 04:49:05 pm
finally! what can (hardly) be seen here is that I docked my first 2 crafts!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
the bad part? the thing you see in the background is the third piece.
it should have been the station hub. but due to a mistake, the only port it has is a small port, and it has no engines, little RCS and no ASAS. SAS power is also pityful, since it only has a tiny probe.
Which means, I'll have to use the station to dock to it.
the whole, heavily unbalanced station. on a small docking port.

wish me luck  :(

I would abandon it, but there are bill bob and jeb on it.

edit: congratulations on the mun station!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 04:59:28 pm
Spoiler: a planned slingshot (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: a planned planet encounter (click to show/hide)

this node interface is really powerful; trying different configurations to the planet encounter allowed me to find one with about 700m/s of dV less to be used (still out of reach of the current stage, so the eta burn is off)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 05:04:48 pm
yes, it is quite neat. makes travelling to other planets much easier.
assuming you manage to send a large enough ship to orbit... but with docking that is less of a problem I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 02, 2012, 05:13:47 pm
How does one go about making everything level? Example, I have one central mainsail engine, and I want 3 more radial engines, with their exhausts level with the mainsail. Is there some kind of snap-to for this?

Also, I know of prograde and retrograde, but are there terms for Dv in the other 4 directions available on the orbit planner?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 05:19:24 pm
normal and radial; normal can be upward or downward, radial can be inward and outward
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 02, 2012, 05:39:40 pm
Quote from: Chattox on December 02, 2012, 05:13:47 pm
How does one go about making everything level? Example, I have one central mainsail engine, and I want 3 more radial engines, with their exhausts level with the mainsail. Is there some kind of snap-to for this?

I got so fed up with this problem in 0.13 that I made a little external script to go into the .craft file and (with a little guesswork and a little guidance) automatically what I'd heretofore been doing manually.  (But my script is tuned to my own build-style, and is in Perl, so probably not much use to you.)

If things haven't changed too much for 0.18 savefiles, that's what I would suggest.  Here's what I used to do: Open the "foo.craft" file in notepad, identify a central fuel-tank from which radial decouplers branch onto counterparts that has (say) a <x>,<y>,<z> location of <x>,4.50424,<z> and then see if you've got (say) three radial fuel-tanks sitting at <differentxs>,4.412945,<differentzs> (i.e. similar, but not identical, vertical positions) and edit that middle value to be the same as the original middle value.  For all fuel tanks/engines directly below these initially branching ones, cross-compare with the equivalent "central stack" item and adjust accordingly.

This must be done only with like-for-like components in both central and radial positions.  I find that getting a layer of radially-attached stacks (that mirror the equivalent stack(s) that they centrally attach to) in position before I start adding in fuel/strut interconnects and SAS modules that sit on top of the side-stacks that don't have counterparts in the central one(s).  If you then want to add a second layer of radials, then you are advised to do this in a second pass.  I've done this up to four times, in the past.

But, anyway, when happy (or for each stage in a complex multi-pass refining) save the file as "fooX.craft", then back in KSP load the "fooX" model.  As you didn't change the "model name" entry at the top of the Ship file, it will still be named as "foo" and if it loads nicely you can just resave it over the original "foo.craft".  If it doesn't like the load, or it doesn't look right to you for some reason, just don't save the fooX (named "foo") and re-open the "foo", either in KSP or notepad, and do what you need to do to work out what the issues might be and what (up to and including trying the editing process again) you can do.

I've sometimes found editing the .craft file is even good for properly organising the staging groups (I find that complex ones were often difficult to control in the Assembly Building interface).  No idea if this is still the case, and of course now there's the Action Groups to consider as well.


Of course, there's probably some 3rd-party applications (either in-line to KSP or external like my own script) been made that sorts a lot of this out for you.  And are properly tuned to (at least) 0.17 savefile formats.  But as I'm a bit behind the times on versions I can't help you there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 05:45:40 pm
there is an option to snap things vertically in the config, but the problem is that is applies to all pieces, and restarting each time you wan't to mess with alignment is boring
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 05:48:54 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 02, 2012, 05:11:55 pm
OK, using the manoeuvring nodes did nothing for making space station segments get near enough to each other. I can get them within a few km easily, but once I'm there, one ends up overtaking the other, regardless :(

Extra engines do nothing, more RCS does nothing, ASAS does nothing...

Seems I'm destined for failure when it comes to space stations.

getting a few kilometers away from target is all you need manoeuvring points, so they worked wonderfully.
when you get that close, navball should switch from "orbit" to "target". first burn toward the symbol that usually mean retrograde, to eliminate relative speed. then, burn to target ( purple cross with circle). repeat several times until you get close.


I just tried to dock the station with the people module I spoke about earlier... they got very close, but failed to align. not quite agile enough, that station :/ I'll send a rescue craft to bring people back later. docking is way more trouble than it is worth in this case.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 02, 2012, 05:50:46 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 02, 2012, 04:49:05 pm
finally! what can (hardly) be seen here is that I docked my first 2 crafts!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
the bad part? the thing you see in the background is the third piece.
it should have been the station hub. but due to a mistake, the only port it has is a small port, and it has no engines, little RCS and no ASAS. SAS power is also pityful, since it only has a tiny probe.
Which means, I'll have to use the station to dock to it.
the whole, heavily unbalanced station. on a small docking port.

wish me luck  :(

I would abandon it, but there are bill bob and jeb on it.

edit: congratulations on the mun station!
Simple! Just send your kerblanauts to EVA and guide them safetly to the station! I have done the same thing during the contruction of my lunar orbital station wich I mentioned in the above post.(Wee seem to have accomplished docking roughly at the same time  ;) ) I have also started building Kerbus, the first orbital station arround kerbin, it will house 8 kerbaunauts and hopefully have interplanetary capabilities.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:12:48 pm
Quote from: peskyninja on December 02, 2012, 05:50:46 pm
Simple! Just send your kerblanauts to EVA and guide them safetly to the station! I have done the same thing during the contruction of my lunar orbital station wich I mentioned in the above post.

problem is, crew module is what I am failing to dock :P I could still leave them hanging from ladders, I guess... but that is still far from ideal.

honestly, most of my problems come from trying too hard to recover a VERY failed mission.
hm. I could send a new and improved crew module, rescue kerbonauts, and then dock that to the station. may require a bit of launch power, but fairly doable....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
i think he means a space station that can change what planet/moon/whatever it orbits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:16:09 pm
yes, about that... post screenshots when you are done!

I can't imagine building a large enough station to do such a thing.... would take a long time, and I am not sure I can dock well enough to keep everything nice and symmetrical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:18:45 pm
besides, it might just be better to call it a SPKV. or a Space Produced Kerbal Vessel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
i think he means a space station that can change what planet/moon/whatever it orbits.

Wouldn't weight imbalances make it spinning madly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:25:10 pm
RCS, man. tons of it. and low thrust. ( tried that. an highly asymmetrical station, with the engine on the side, could accelerate a bit... I imagine a better equipped station could do more)

either that, or build it symmetrical enough to solve most such problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 02, 2012, 06:25:16 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
i think he means a space station that can change what planet/moon/whatever it orbits.

Wouldn't weight imbalances make it spinning madly?
You could make it close to symmetric though, couldn't you?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 02, 2012, 06:28:32 pm
Technically, if you didn't mind having redundant sections, you could make it perfectly symmetrical with a linear central column and the redundant systems placed on the opposite side of one another.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 06:41:26 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 02, 2012, 06:25:16 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
i think he means a space station that can change what planet/moon/whatever it orbits.

Wouldn't weight imbalances make it spinning madly?
You could make it close to symmetric though, couldn't you?

No, I have this rare, non lethal illness, for which I can't plan in video games.  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2012, 06:44:43 pm
then, tons of SAS and RCS, and of course an ASAS. may not be fast, but it will fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 02, 2012, 06:45:44 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 04:59:28 pm
this node interface is really powerful; trying different configurations to the planet encounter allowed me to find one with about 700m/s of dV less to be used (still out of reach of the current stage, so the eta burn is off)

Is there a simple (read as: "Idiot's") guide to the node interface anywhere at all?  I've managed a couple of docking manoeuvres by dint of trial, error and sheer blind luck, and used the targeting system to find decent intersect points, but I'd really like to work out how to use the system itself efficiently.  The KSP wiki obviously hasn't been updated since the patch.  ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 02, 2012, 06:50:38 pm
Landed on the Mun with .18 stock parts. I'd done it in previous versions, but this was the first time I'd done the landing from the IVA view. The Lander Can works pretty well in that capacity. I hope docking with the command module for the return trip doesn't prove to be too troublesome.

Spoiler: Bob and Bill pose for the camera (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 02, 2012, 07:16:31 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 05:19:24 pm
normal and radial; normal can be upward or downward, radial can be inward and outward

Excellent, thank you!
Also, is anyone else having trouble posting on the KSP forums? I've had an account since 2011 but never actually tried to post until now, and it wont let me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 02, 2012, 08:01:48 pm
Damnit, trying to rendezvous with this space station is proving more difficult than I thought it would be. Is there some kind of trick to it? It seems when I do it I'm always moving too slow for it. Is there a point where it would be ideal to meet with a staion? I figured it would be at the apoapsis, but I dunno.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 02, 2012, 08:07:14 pm
I'd say periapsis, so you end up moving faster than it and can slow down if you overtake it instead of trying to catch up if it passes you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 02, 2012, 09:30:38 pm
You should try and get the station's orbit as circular as possible anyway, so it shouldn't really matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 02, 2012, 10:16:02 pm
MechJeb Beta is out. It's all sorts of messed up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 02, 2012, 10:25:50 pm
Touch two docking ports together. One you get them close enough, they'll stick together, though sometimes I've had to disable SAS before they can become fully docked. There is a docking port part with a cover that needs to be opened, but you don't have to do anything special for the regular ports.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 03, 2012, 02:43:48 am
I have no idea how people dock stuff :/ You all talk of it like it's so simple ;_; I mean, I can't even aim my rockets good enough to be roughly similar to the station's orbit.

Though, the fact that my most recent space station part I wanted to dock with the rest of the station was rather unsteerable probably didn't help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 03:02:43 am
Learn on a easy situation, instead of going for the station.

Make a dockable craft, launch one at 150km circular and the other at 100

Now, the lower one will be faster, control that one.

Place a node on your orbit to bring your orbit AP at 151km

Now you should see two closest approach marker. Drag the node until the marker are aligned, then fine tune until the separation distance shown from the marker is < than 5km

Now perform that maneuver and you will be close and just a bit slower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on December 03, 2012, 03:04:51 am
When you're all building these really advanced looking space stations, (like a large scale one) do you just bring up chunks at a time with a docking clamp and release it from the rocket once its docked at station? Nothing else really need be done?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 03:05:45 am
Then follow this:

Quote from: ank on December 02, 2012, 06:25:56 am

@Everybody that sucks as much at docking as I did 30 minutes ago:

1: Set you docking target as target (duh)

2: Use planning to get a close approach, anything under 10 km will do.

3: When you use the target function, your prograde and retrograde icons(the green ones) on the navball is relative to the velocity difference of your target.

4: That means: burn towards retrograde, until you have no speed difference to the target.

5: Then burn towards the target(the purple icons on the navball) Now you are heading straight for the target.

6: burn retrograde again when you get close to the target.

7: repeat steps 5-6 until you are very close, then dock using rcs and the docking mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 03, 2012, 03:43:29 am
Wow, I just made a Hypersonic test craft. 8 fuel tanks, 2 engines 4 radial scoops and 2 axial ones, at a 22km cruise altitude it sits on about 1400m/s. and it has enough fuel to get around the planet.

Splace plane!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2012, 04:43:25 am
Quote from: Tobel on December 03, 2012, 03:04:51 am
When you're all building these really advanced looking space stations, (like a large scale one) do you just bring up chunks at a time with a docking clamp and release it from the rocket once its docked at station? Nothing else really need be done?
I was bringing them up in these large chunks dotted with RCS thrusters. Now that I have my flitter fleet in orbit, I can just detach the individual chunks, and have the flitters pilot them into position to dock on the station. Everything's done manually of course, but the small flitters make it easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 03, 2012, 05:04:41 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 02, 2012, 02:41:35 pm
Quote from: ank on December 02, 2012, 06:25:56 am
My first mission was Apollo styled:
-snip-
Dude that's an huge and inneficient rocket. I've managed to land a larger module with a smaller rocket than that one.

Quite!
I just needed to go to the moon, and this thing brought me there, mission accomplished.

@LoSboccacc was just about to repost that! Once you realize the navball shows speed relative to your target, it becomes so easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 03, 2012, 05:34:08 am
The more I play this version the more I come to hate the tweaked physics. The mainsail engines are wobbly as all hell, meaning I have to use the launch stabiliser things every single time. On top of this, things seem overly ready to explode. Uncoupled some empty booster rockets, they begin to drift outwards, one of them taps my mainsail engine (not even running at this point) and the entire bottom half of my rocket explodes. Dafuq?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 03, 2012, 06:06:02 am
It would be nice to have some sort of mid range engine for the large size tanks. Though perhaps i should just be using a smaller engine and some of the radial ones to get that effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2012, 06:24:24 am
For a midrange engine you should try a few regular ones on a tricoupler. And rocket engines are incredibly sensitive. It's just that there are no gradations of damage yet. If a detached booster rocket tapped your main engine IRL, you would have a severely damaged, and likely inoperable engine. In KSP, there is no "damaged", there are just "whole" and "exploded", so the engine does the only thing it can do in the situation, and explodes. Same thing with fuel tanks filled with fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 03, 2012, 06:37:20 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 02, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
i think he means a space station that can change what planet/moon/whatever it orbits.

Wouldn't weight imbalances make it spinning madly?
I should have predicted that. I guess I was to happy because I learned how to dock. Now I have a massive spinning cross floating arround mun.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2012, 06:24:24 am
For a midrange engine you should try a few regular ones on a tricoupler. And rocket engines are incredibly sensitive. It's just that there are no gradations of damage yet. If a detached booster rocket tapped your main engine IRL, you would have a severely damaged, and likely inoperable engine. In KSP, there is no "damaged", there are just "whole" and "exploded", so the engine does the only thing it can do in the situation, and explodes. Same thing with fuel tanks filled with fuel.

Tri couplers in midle stages suck. They make the whole structure weak. If atleast they worked as a decoupler too.


]Edit: Forgot to add that I've made some sort of space gas station, I'll use it to lauch ships with only the required fuel to get into orbit and get the rest of fuel there. I just need mech jeb to not expend 10 hours a day lauching cheap ass rockets with only fuel tanks as payload and docking them.

I really think the lack of midrange engines disturbing. 3 ~200 thrust ones and a 2500 thrust one. Devs where mad.(They were also mad with those ion engines, I'm aware that RL ion engines can barely lift a paper sheet here on earth but gameplay>realism.)
And what do you guys think about the addition of oxidizer and fuel ? I couldn't find a away to exploit that.
Edit ll: Screenshots still black I don't know what the hell is causing this so no pics of my cheap ass rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 03, 2012, 07:37:45 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 03, 2012, 06:37:20 am
I really think the lack of midrange engines disturbing. 3 ~200 thrust ones and a 2500 thrust one. Devs where mad.(They were also mad with those ion engines, I'm aware that RL ion engines can barely lift a paper sheet here on earth but gameplay>realism.)

Not speaking from experience, here, of the actual ion engines they've now included in vanilla, but (as recently mentioned) this was one of my prior thoughts for something that was needed to fill an actual niche in the gameplay, i.e. a long-burn/low-impulse rocket that can be used to gradually nudge orbit higher/lower/rounder/more elliptical, or whatever it is you're wanting, but over a long time, with a very low fuel rate (and needing electrical energy to accomplish this feat).  I wouldn't imagine an ion-drive being powerful enough to lift itself (never mind anything on top of itself) up from the surface of Minmus, though maybe it should from some of the smaller Joolsian moons that I've briefly seen.

Actually, from what I've seen of the demos, they've actually made the ion-drives over-powered, to what I was imagining.  As to the distribution of power-ratios in-between the standard and super-sized engines, I can't argue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 03, 2012, 08:07:23 am
Spoiler: This actually works surprisingly well. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 08:13:36 am
The problem with realistic ions is that the game forces you to be there and watch all the hour long maneuver.

Whatching my probe slowing by 1500m/s over an hour wasn't exatly fun
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 03, 2012, 08:20:14 am
I would like it if we could fast forward even with engines on. Is there a reason why we can't?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 03, 2012, 08:27:09 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 03, 2012, 08:20:14 am
I would like it if we could fast forward even with engines on. Is there a reason why we can't?
Upgraded Physics engine?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 03, 2012, 08:36:28 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 03, 2012, 08:20:14 am
I would like it if we could fast forward even with engines on. Is there a reason why we can't?
It's the way the game deals ship aceleration and  time speed increase. Maybe they could add an exeption only to ion engines.

With the docking of the Automatic refuelling drone Dimitri the Terrus station has 2 modules.

And I just realized it is possible to assembble munar stations on space and land them.  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 03, 2012, 08:42:23 am
I mentioned (when I first belatedly mentioned ion-drives, and how I'd previously thought about modding them in, long before the current version) how I had also been thnking of a simple companion 'orientator computer '(sounds like MechJeb is a far more complex thing, but never tried that and am just going from recent comments on here) that could keep the craft pointing forward (or outward, or any other relative direction I chose) throughout its orbit.

But all this was to replace my current practice of setting a regular engine on the lowest burn-amount I could possibly manage and every now and then adjusting the orientation while getting on with something more practical on an adjacent computer (or even on the other side of the room).  And, like I said, I'm behind the times.


@Skyrunner: Simulation difficulties?  Different rounding errors between how an engine thrust changes the orbit while running at 1s/s, 10s/s, 100s/s, etc would probably mean inconsistencies.  Fuel use would be linear, but the changing n-th derivative values of velocity, acceleration and onwards might not be so easy to keep calculated so that thrusting under 1x warp gets you to the same position as the same thrusting under 100x warp, for example.

(I remember once having had a highly elliptical (nearly straight-up-and-down) Mun-hitting orbit from being near-stationary just under the limit of Mun's gravitational limit, and was hardly picking up speed.  I increased Warp a few times.  A few times too many, though and I actually found myself coming back up again, having apparently followed the (unpowered) track down to a sub-Munsurface lower orbital node and back up, but no collision occurred because the calculations regarding my orbital progress (with, by that time, much quicker progress along the track) had obviously sent me from a position of "safely" above it going down to safely above it going back up in a single blink of the engine, so no collision.  If it had been timed much differently I would probably have been deemed to have crashed, of course, as one of the 'ticks' would have found me subsurface.  I don't know if this (literal?) loophole is still around in newer versions, though, as I would have thought a simple trajectory-collision-point calculation would have prevented that from ever happening, even if it was part way through a nominal 'calculation tick' period.)

((Further ninjaed, in one way or another, by two others.  Yup, much more succinct than me.))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 03, 2012, 08:44:18 am
I say an exception for ion engines would be awesome! Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 03, 2012, 08:58:22 am
>Failed to login


Whatever happend to a plain old download? Can't play mah games anymore : I
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 03, 2012, 09:41:30 am
I believe the original idea was to make it so you didn't have to do a full download for each release... and thus put less strain on the server. They just haven't gotten it figured out yet... Patcher is in Alpha too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 10:08:09 am
I wonder why bother, since the patcher I had to download both the patcher AND the full game every release, multiple times.

And the mono framework in the osx patcher. Every. Single. Time
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 03, 2012, 10:39:20 am
Quote from: ThtblovesDF on December 03, 2012, 08:58:22 am
Whatever happend to a plain old download? Can't play mah games anymore : I
You could try to find the game elsewhere for the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on December 03, 2012, 10:42:21 am
Quote from: Starver on December 03, 2012, 08:42:23 am
I mentioned (when I first belatedly mentioned ion-drives, and how I'd previously thought about modding them in, long before the current version) how I had also been thnking of a simple companion 'orientator computer '(sounds like MechJeb is a far more complex thing, but never tried that and am just going from recent comments on here) that could keep the craft pointing forward (or outward, or any other relative direction I chose) throughout its orbit.

MechJeb has a component that'll do just orientations—prograde, retrograde, normal, and antinormal are the ones I use most often. There are other autopilot components, but basically the only one of those I use is the ascent autopilot, after I've flown a rocket to orbit myself. Especially with .18's flight planner, transfer orbits should be easy enough to do manually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2012, 12:03:16 pm
My rockets are usually too finicky to fly up with MechJeb, and any other uses are completely made obsolete by the flight planner, so I really don't bother with it at all. Automatic piloting is somewhat nonsensical in a game where half the fun is trying to get your rockets to fly where you want them to (with the other half being building them).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 03, 2012, 01:49:35 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2012, 12:03:16 pm
My rockets are usually too finicky to fly up with MechJeb, and any other uses are completely made obsolete by the flight planner, so I really don't bother with it at all. Automatic piloting is somewhat nonsensical in a game where half the fun is trying to get your rockets to fly where you want them to (with the other half being building them).
I just realised that playing without mechjeb has increaased my sucess chance from 50% to 85% due to rockets not exploding because mechjeb goes on fulll power since the begining of the flight.

Also how do I transfer fuel between ships?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 03, 2012, 01:50:57 pm
Dock, then rightclick on relevant fuel tanks. At least, so I heard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 03, 2012, 01:51:44 pm
Right click on one fuel tank and then alt+right click on the other one. A menu will pop up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 03:28:54 pm
twenty minutes of watching the patcher 'waiting on server' for 'determining what files you need'

to update just to 18.1!

seriously, drop it, it's DOA.

why can't they push the changed files and be done with it? it isn't like it is going to work with mod anyway (it tells right from the start it is going to overwrite anything different).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 03:33:46 pm
Use the reset feature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 03:36:07 pm
yeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Another full download. Kill the patcher and do what every other is doing on their games ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 03, 2012, 05:12:54 pm
Is there a way to transfer progress? Like swapping the data file? Or would that bork it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 05:49:47 pm
you can open it in a text editor, craft are pretty easily taken apart and pasted; there is even a 'social' savegame on the ksp forum.

btw, here is, finally, a good visualization of a 'free return' trajectory:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

basically you get on a reverse slingshot that slows you, and so you fall back on Kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 03, 2012, 06:05:34 pm

a few posts ago I said I would bring a rescue module up to orbit to rescue kerbonauts on failed station, and then dock with new station.

soon after launch, however, I noticed some *slight* flaws.
I forgot to add any RCS.
Module didn't have any small engines on it to help docking , so I had to use orbiting stage.
Orbiting stage was a mainsail engine with 2 large fuel tanks!

I decide to move the station then. well, turns out that keeping such a thing stable with RCS consumes a LOT of fuel. I run out fairly quickly, and have to use even less thrust ( only SAS to keep things stable).

so, I have a behemothiam crew module with little turning ability, and an unblanaced, RCSless station( thankfully with plenty of SAS power).
well, I started the interception burn already, so might as well try, right?
surprise! I actually manage to dock them!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

and it only took 2 tries. the first attempt bounced me away a little, but in such a way that I could just realign the crafts and try again, even more easily.
I docked 2 unsteerable crafts using only main engines! I feel like a genius! ( at least until somebody posts screenshots of huge and good looking stations. or the newest spaceplane, or a landing on jool moons or whatever).

you might, however, have noticed that I didn't mention how I recovered kerbonauts.
well, turns out I have a rather bad memory and I forgot. now I am 28 km away.
I'll probably wait for next intercept...

edit: next thing I do, however, is launch an RCS storage module. and perhaps set up a proper dock, so I can refuel all the empty tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 03, 2012, 07:06:04 pm
So I had finally put up the space station core and was going to install a more fitting habitat module. By doing some science and reading I managed to intercept and maintain a suitable docking path. However, once docked I noticed the solar panels weren't parallell, so off I were to re-orient them.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 03, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After about half a dozen attempts, I finally docked my massive fuel module to my station. It has 5 orange fuel tanks. That was a pain and a half to get into orbit. My station now has 5 modules; 2 generic ones, 1 RCS and Ion fuel module, a power module, and the massive fuel module.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2012, 07:47:47 pm
a lander catching the return stage on the fly
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
lot of luck was involved.

I actually managed to catch up with the speed difference, but I had to reverse dock it because the lander lost the rcs fuel on ascent
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 03, 2012, 09:20:33 pm
I just realized something in 0.18.1

The building next to the launch pad has no skin.

What does this mean?

NEW UPDATE COMING REEAAAAAAAAL SOON.

EDIT: Oh crap the load save button doesn't work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 03, 2012, 11:09:37 pm
No, that's the option at the start to send debug info to the devs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 03, 2012, 11:11:41 pm
Quote from: alway on December 03, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
After about half a dozen attempts, I finally docked my massive fuel module to my station. It has 5 orange fuel tanks. That was a pain and a half to get into orbit. My station now has 5 modules; 2 generic ones, 1 RCS and Ion fuel module, a power module, and the massive fuel module.

How many orange fuel tanks did it take to get those 5 into orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 01:15:17 am
My guess is.. Those five thanks. He did not say that those were also full.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 04, 2012, 01:19:32 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 03, 2012, 11:11:41 pm
Quote from: alway on December 03, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
After about half a dozen attempts, I finally docked my massive fuel module to my station. It has 5 orange fuel tanks. That was a pain and a half to get into orbit. My station now has 5 modules; 2 generic ones, 1 RCS and Ion fuel module, a power module, and the massive fuel module.

How many orange fuel tanks did it take to get those 5 into orbit?
My carrier rocket uses an equivalent of three and a half orange tanks to get three quarters of an orange tank's mass into a 150/150 orbit for docking at the station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 04, 2012, 01:46:33 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 04, 2012, 01:19:32 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 03, 2012, 11:11:41 pm
Quote from: alway on December 03, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
After about half a dozen attempts, I finally docked my massive fuel module to my station. It has 5 orange fuel tanks. That was a pain and a half to get into orbit. My station now has 5 modules; 2 generic ones, 1 RCS and Ion fuel module, a power module, and the massive fuel module.

How many orange fuel tanks did it take to get those 5 into orbit?
My carrier rocket uses an equivalent of three and a half orange tanks to get three quarters of an orange tank's mass into a 150/150 orbit for docking at the station.
Can you show us pictures of your rockets so I can shamelessly copy the design?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 04, 2012, 02:11:31 am
Is anyone else getting massive lag spikes in the new version? Even when I'm in the main menu screen my cursor will just stutter and freeze for no apparent reason. Dropping the graphics settings seems to reduce it but doesn't eliminate it entirely.

This is on a fairly new machine which had no problems with the previous version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 04, 2012, 02:21:59 am
So, a few pages back people were discussing making a moving space station, and it caught my interest.

So what kind of modules should it be made of?
Obviously it should have some engine modules, maybe some fuel modules, som habitat pods, and power nodes.

Then it should have a probe array, maybe fly a mission to check out the pressure at Jool.

And it should have 1 or 2 crewed landing craft.

Also escape pods.... maybe 5 lander capsules on top of each other.

anything else?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 02:48:26 am
Make a control node between the engine node and the core node, so that the control node has a docking port on the top and another on the side; put the dockin on an engine node side.

This should allow to attach the engine with a great deal of freedom about its orientation, allowing to position it in a way that the thrust vector is almost aligned to the station center of mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 04, 2012, 02:54:32 am
wait, did you just invent rotational engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 02:59:12 am
Naa its a pretty old invention dating at least to archimede.

I'm just goong to work now will post pictures in 10 hours or so if nobody slow-ninja me.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 04, 2012, 04:51:12 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 04, 2012, 01:46:33 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 04, 2012, 01:19:32 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 03, 2012, 11:11:41 pm
Quote from: alway on December 03, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
After about half a dozen attempts, I finally docked my massive fuel module to my station. It has 5 orange fuel tanks. That was a pain and a half to get into orbit. My station now has 5 modules; 2 generic ones, 1 RCS and Ion fuel module, a power module, and the massive fuel module.

How many orange fuel tanks did it take to get those 5 into orbit?
My carrier rocket uses an equivalent of three and a half orange tanks to get three quarters of an orange tank's mass into a 150/150 orbit for docking at the station.
Can you show us pictures of your rockets so I can shamelessly copy the design?
It's nothing spectacular.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: looking at it now and running some mental math, I think my previous statement was very wrong. Eight long standards make one orange tank, so that's five orange tanks to haul ~3/4 of one orange tank's worth of fuel up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 04, 2012, 05:54:49 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like the ISS. those large panels make the difference. And yes, my first generation tugs were horrible, so i just made something closer along the lines to the fitter idea presented in this thread. in hindsight they could have done with only half the rcs thrusters.

I know one thing for sure, I better get everything else i want to add to this right the first time. After disassembling and reassembling parts of it tonight with the 18.1 patch, I know I sure as hell don't want to do that again. So much wobblyness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on December 04, 2012, 06:33:57 am
In the new version (18.1 as opposed to 18.0), most of the things that come off the ship are now called "unknown". For example instead of "<ship name> debres" it is now "<ship name> unknown". The names stack so i have some stuff called "<ship name> unknown unknown unknown unknown unknown unknown". This was with a save copied from 18.0. This also affects probes, and any object that you no longer control (for example, going from spacecraft to tracking station) rendering them useless.

Anyway my current, possibly oversized rocket (and some miscellaneous old test-vehicles laying about the place):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which (apart from some unidentified explosions after the physics engine kicks in) works fine. Plus, any spiders dont have to worry about setting up a web, its already done for them. All those struts were necessary to stop it from turning into a gigantic spring, and it runs at about 1/2 fps a second during takeoff because of it.

Is there a mod for a larger platform...

To Duna:

Spoiler: takeoff (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oh no, there is a planet in the way (duna) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Started slowing down too late... (plus an example of the "unknown" issue) (click to show/hide)

Testing out my new all-terrain vehicles, a go-cart for exploration of a planet:
Spoiler: Takeoff (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: This thing is almost impossible to land (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Now to explore Minim... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ...oh... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ...fuck (click to show/hide)

In short, Low gravity = go slowly. Good thing I brought two...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 04, 2012, 07:44:01 am
For those interested, someone on the forums showed that you can use the smallest strut part placed on the bottom of the large fuel tanks as mounting points for mid sized engines. EG, you can have 4 in a grid of 5 in a cross etc. Basically a replacement for a mid range engine of that size, its really, really handy.
thread is here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31803-Engine-clusters-with-0-18)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 04, 2012, 07:57:53 am
Neat! I should try this as my Earth to Space Transport mark 2. xD Less power, but maybe getting a probe in orbit 'round the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 04, 2012, 08:03:44 am
Another bonus of that arrangement is that a ring of engines is always inherently more stable than a single, central one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 04, 2012, 08:16:59 am
6 engines at 200 thurst =1200 thrust, comparable to the mainsail engine(1500), and better impulse at ground level.

Bonus: Looks super fucking awesome!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on December 04, 2012, 10:04:18 am
they lag as hell though
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 04, 2012, 12:26:58 pm
did anyone saw this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's a colony cruiser. So awesome I (and most of the KSP forumers) lack words.
thread here:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/32206-The-Great-Seleneikos-TOTAL-COLONY-Nuclear-Colony-Cruiser
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 04, 2012, 01:08:41 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 04, 2012, 01:01:04 pm
I now feel a need to make my rockets huge and aesthetically appealing.
All of my rockets look like faraday cages during launch. Then they always end up looking like crap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 04, 2012, 02:06:40 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on December 04, 2012, 12:26:58 pm
did anyone saw this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's a colony cruiser. So awesome I (and most of the KSP forumers) lack words.
thread here:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/32206-The-Great-Seleneikos-TOTAL-COLONY-Nuclear-Colony-Cruiser

(http://i.imgur.com/ZoYtI.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 04, 2012, 03:40:00 pm
Same. I don't have a problem with any poor audio, myself, it's just that one of the songs was also used in this old porn game, and the song keeps reminding me of how stupid it was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 04, 2012, 03:46:35 pm
Spoiler: The new Skybee IX in orbit (click to show/hide)

Got some progress done on the space station!

Spoiler: Refueler Module docked (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Releasing thruster package to return to Kerbin (click to show/hide)

Doing some testing with new designs while waiting for time window...
Spoiler: The Experimental SP3R can nearly get to Mach 4 if rockets are removed (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Refeuler Module ship launched! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Space station is now proper refueling station (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 04, 2012, 03:56:36 pm
What's the sort of average orbital altitude for a space station?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 03:59:36 pm
I was shooting at 100km as many here but I found that 100km is the average orbit of my launches so I moved the station to 150km as to make it easier to just launch and place an ascent node
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 04, 2012, 06:16:00 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 03:59:36 pm
I was shooting at 100km as many here but I found that 100km is the average orbit of my launches so I moved the station to 150km as to make it easier to just launch and place an ascent node

I tend to go out to about 300km. I get the feeling this is too high, as distances start increasing when it comes to docking and rendezvous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 04, 2012, 06:28:19 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on December 04, 2012, 12:26:58 pm
did anyone saw this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's a colony cruiser. So awesome I (and most of the KSP forumers) lack words.
thread here:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/32206-The-Great-Seleneikos-TOTAL-COLONY-Nuclear-Colony-Cruiser
Holy ship. That is awesome. I'll take 5.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 04, 2012, 06:32:21 pm
Now we just need to drill to the center of Kerbin to retrieve my jaw
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 04, 2012, 06:35:45 pm
So I stuck some comms satellites in orbit.
I don't know what they do exactly, but they seem to be good to have.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2012, 06:36:01 pm
here's as promised the last iterator of the joint actuator module

Spoiler: the joint module at assembly (click to show/hide)

rotate where you see rotate, and ignore the ignore docking pair, that is here just to keep the engines aligned.

it has everything you need: rcs&fuel, a battery, enough solar panels, a controller for the detached part, asas for the precise alignment.

this module allows engine rotation of 360 deg and inclination of at least 90 deg if nothing's in the way; enough to align the trust vector with the cog and let the station fly straight.

you should not put large engine group attached to those as they aren't exactly indestructible. if you need LOT of POWWWERRR put group of actuator modules + engine modules, not group of engine modules behind a single actuator module
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 04, 2012, 08:18:39 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 04, 2012, 06:35:45 pm
So I stuck some comms satellites in orbit.
I don't know what they do exactly, but they seem to be good to have.

According to the wiki they don't do anything. I'm inclined to believe this since at the moment they don't use any power. Perhaps we just haven't done enough science at it yet, though. I imagine they'll have a use further down the line, and I'm excited to see what they do. Maybe a mapping system like that mod from a while back? Unmanned land vehicles perhaps?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 04, 2012, 09:18:05 pm
I imagine they'll let you 'give orders' to various crew you've already launched and don't feel like fixing yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on December 04, 2012, 09:20:05 pm
Holy shit, has anybody flown jets in .18?

I almost hit 1000m/s at 20KM altitude under the power of only two turbojets.

Edit: Pic right as the engines finally choked out or something and went about sparking and sputtering and sending the plane tumbling.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 04, 2012, 10:47:36 pm
Just slow down. You're using RCS, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 04, 2012, 11:13:07 pm
If you look in the bottom left there's 3 buttons near the translation indications. The top one is the staging controls, which is default. Middle one is the docking controls, which changes WSADQE into RCS thrust controls, along with spacebar and CTRL (or shift, something like that). It also displays more translation indicators to help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 05, 2012, 12:18:00 am
Quote from: Rilder on December 04, 2012, 09:20:05 pm
Holy shit, has anybody flown jets in .18?

I almost hit 1000m/s at 20KM altitude under the power of only two turbojets.

Edit: Pic right as the engines finally choked out or something and went about sparking and sputtering and sending the plane tumbling.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can actually get slightly higher/faster with some extra intakes and well timed rocket activation. Harvester added instructions for getting one of the default space planes to orbit on his forum blog. His involved a quick climb to 10km, leveling out. Speeding up as he slow climbed past 15km. 600-800 m/s reached by the time he got to 20km. Another level-out period to build up more speed up to 1200 m/s or so. At which point he popped the rocket, eventually getting up to around 1600 m/s and 24 km before the jets died and he shut them off and closed the intakes. (Action groups already pre-set on the default plane. Closed intakes cause less drag though, so slightly important.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 05, 2012, 12:58:42 am
Quote from: XxoriginxX on December 04, 2012, 11:41:09 pm
Quote from: OzyTheSage on December 04, 2012, 11:13:07 pm
If you look in the bottom left there's 3 buttons near the translation indications. The top one is the staging controls, which is default. Middle one is the docking controls, which changes WSADQE into RCS thrust controls, along with spacebar and CTRL (or shift, something like that). It also displays more translation indicators to help.
I was using that, but it is still incredibly difficult to get it exactly right, since I was attempting to dock with... well, a ship with a rather large nuclear engine and fuel tank, so that I can remove the thrusters from my station and send them back to Kerbin. Therefore, navigation with it tends to be a bit tedious, since angling is a must. And in this case, angling is a pain.
Well, you need ASAS and RCS, and to use the docking mode. Also the "fine controls" mode, since that helps RCS as well. First kill your relative speed. Then right click the docking port you want to dock to, select "set as target". Right click the docking port on your ship you want to use to dock, select "control from here". Hit "V" until you get to "chase" camera mode, then orient so that you're looking along the docking direction. Eyeball the correct angle for docking and orient the ship to that. Switch to translation mode, and gently nudge RCS with quick taps until your velocity vector is somewhere in the vicinity of the target marker on the navball, and your speed is within 1 m/s. Coast slowly until you're close enough to correct your approach angle, do that, and then adjust your velocity again. If you can't see your dockport, just keep your eyes on the navball, because it represents your docking port in this setup. Ideally, you will want to put your target marker in the center of the navball reticule first, and then do the final docking approach, rather than approach from an angle, but as long as you're going slow enough a slightly angled approach should still work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on December 05, 2012, 01:02:19 am
I've gotten to 20-23km and 1500-1700m/s cruising with just one turbojet engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 05, 2012, 07:14:27 am
So I have 2 ships in orbit. How do I get them even remotely close to each other? I've matched the orbits almost perfectly but they're on almost opposite sides of the planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 05, 2012, 01:10:58 pm
MechJeb has been updated - now it works in 0.18! Beware of bugs, though. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/12384-PLUGIN-PART-0-18-1-Anatid-Robotics-MuMech-MechJeb-Autopilot-v1-9-5)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 01:16:33 pm
Quote from: Chattox on December 05, 2012, 07:14:27 am
So I have 2 ships in orbit. How do I get them even remotely close to each other? I've matched the orbits almost perfectly but they're on almost opposite sides of the planet.

Lower orbits move around the planet faster, so you'll need to increase the distance of the orbits first. Then fast forward until they start to approach each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on December 05, 2012, 01:26:15 pm
Quote from: Chattox on December 05, 2012, 07:14:27 am
So I have 2 ships in orbit. How do I get them even remotely close to each other? I've matched the orbits almost perfectly but they're on almost opposite sides of the planet.

similar to how you get to the moon...
-you click the 2nd ship and mark it as target.
-create a maneuver.
-adjust the maneuver so that the two interception "pink(?) triangles", that are shown on the new maneuver orbit, are ontop of eachother... if you move the mouse over them you see the distance they are away from eachother.
-aim to the blue maneuver target...
-do the maneuver.
-then you should be kind of close to it and can get closer best with RCS.

+ a bit of experimenting and trial/error with the maneuver
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 05, 2012, 01:28:17 pm
keep in mind that you can right click on the port that you want to dock to, and set THAT as a target.
setting the ship as a target can lead to the navball being worthless when you are very close, depending on positions.
(obviously how much of an issue this is depends heavily on structure of rockets. for ports on top of the capsule, no difference. on the side, and far from capsule? very different)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 05, 2012, 01:35:21 pm
There's no difference at all where either your or the target's ports are.

Right click the target port, select as target. Right click your own port, select "control from here". Hit "V" till you are in chase camera mode. Voila.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 05, 2012, 02:49:54 pm
is there any other way which isn't mouse to select the target? because I have some debris in the same orbit with the station, but the game selects them (even if their position in orbit are quite far)

Spoiler: one of the other debris always compare up for selection even with the mouse dead over the station (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 05, 2012, 03:47:05 pm
Use the control center to remove the debris.

or

move the target.

BTW, got started on the Unstationary Space Station, or USS.
got 4 linking modules, and engine module linked together in orbit.
Will have pictures soon.

Also, does anybody know how to fix the unknown bug in 18.1?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 05, 2012, 04:13:39 pm
I've built an RCS rover/tractor. It is specially designed so that the center of gravity is right in the middle of the horizontal clamp-o-tron, and there is a forward C-O-T on the front edge. Thus, it can ride on top of a Munar or Dunar mission vessel and drive around independently. The forward C-O-T is designed to clamp on to small drone-based "illumination systems" or other small structures. It could also hook up to a stationary RCS fueling gizmo.

Now I just need to make the transfer vehicle... and, come to think of it, figure out a way to get this thing hooked up on the front of it. Can you connect covered C-O-Ts to other joints in the vehicle designers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 05, 2012, 05:26:26 pm
Why do my rockets look so phallic?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 05, 2012, 05:35:24 pm
Quote from: peskyninja on December 05, 2012, 05:26:26 pm
Why do my rockets look so phallic?

It's a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 05, 2012, 05:35:41 pm
Ion engines are pretty much useless IMO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 05, 2012, 05:57:53 pm
A interesting concept has been brewing in my mind.

Essentially, it's where you dock parts you want to build a rocket with on a space station.

Then, after amassing the parts, dock the craft head/capsule and proceed to un-dock the rocket parts from the station and dock them to the capsule.

Basically you build a rocket in space. This is useful since you can make a massive rocket in space, away from all the problems of gravity. Though if you screw up getting to your destination, you are going to have one hell of a time rebuilding that rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 05, 2012, 05:59:40 pm
So for once I have actually put NOT ENOUGH engines on a rocket stage.
Today is a memorable day indeed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 05, 2012, 06:13:28 pm
How fast are you going?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 06:15:35 pm
Yes, you could have (and should have) been going slower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 05, 2012, 06:21:34 pm
This is going to sound like a stupid question, and I only ask it because I made this mistake myself ( :-[ ), but if either of your docking ports are covered have you commanded them to open up?

Wouldn't ask if I hadn't done it myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 pm
also some are different size... the small one doesnt fit in the normal docking port one!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 pm
Was either spacecraft built on an ancient Indian burial ground?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 05, 2012, 06:34:02 pm
That shouldn't have a negative effect - in fact, the two times I've had success docking, I've actually found it easier with SAS off - well, ASAS off, anyway, mainly because I'm trying to do fine manoeuvring with RCS and it snatches control away from me at the drop of a hat!

So - two docking ports, unshielded, perfectly aligned, coming together slowly, negligible relative velocity...it does sound like it should've worked.  No clue why not, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 05, 2012, 07:09:04 pm
The speed you should dock at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKQzCB1kHho

Assuming you line everything up perfectly, it will begin to pull the craft in with a magnetic-like force, latching it on when it steadies out. If you are moving pretty much at all compared to the station, you will fail to dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 07:14:03 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on December 05, 2012, 06:16:10 pm
Quote from: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 06:15:35 pm
Yes, you could have (and should have) been going slower.
If I were to adjust my speed whatsoever from that point, I would have stopped.

The fact remains that if you were going fast enough that you bounced off, you were going too fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 06, 2012, 01:48:18 am
Quote from: andrea on December 05, 2012, 01:28:17 pm
setting the ship as a target can lead to the navball being worthless when you are very close, depending on positions.
if you click on the speed readout you can cycle between target and orbit modes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 06, 2012, 04:29:02 am
While other people are doing fancy stuff like docking, or getting to Jool with a lot of people to colonize it, I'm just plopping little satellites in space.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like its design, though. I didn't expect the ASAS module to be so pretty with six ion engines, kinda like one of those Star Wars fighters with a ring as its engine.

I learned that six ion engines guzzle electricity like no tomorrow. Four giant solar panels and four small solar panels still don't provide surplus electricity with all of the engines all full throttle. And the thrust is still negligible. xD

I would like a mod that adds a bigger ion engine that provides more thrust and uses even more electricity... :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 06, 2012, 07:15:32 am
Quote from: XxoriginxX on December 05, 2012, 06:16:10 pm
Quote from: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 06:15:35 pm
Yes, you could have (and should have) been going slower.
If I were to adjust my speed whatsoever from that point, I would have stopped.
Did you toggled the hull mounted clam o tron? Yes you need to do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 07:22:07 am
I've seen some on the KSP forums.

Link (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31944-0-18-Ion-Engine-Pack)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 06, 2012, 08:08:20 am
Awesome :D Now I need to make a huge spaceship with the sole purpose of running one of those huge engines at full power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 06, 2012, 08:33:18 am
Decided to add an extended dock to the station. It now supports rockets with the clamp-o-tron jr.

Spoiler: The Extended Dock Module (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 06, 2012, 08:41:57 am
Unstationary Space Station so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Engine module on the top left, and 4 Nexus modules.
The thing on top with the landing legs is my catcher module, that I needed after one of my astronauts ran out of RCS fuel.

I'm working on the lander modules, but I might be overdoing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 06, 2012, 10:10:13 am
You can go into your folder and mod the ion engines, I made mine 30x stronger - still close to no effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 10:12:48 am
Problem with ion engines is that they're only usefull if you could use them together with timewarp. Which you can't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:31:16 am
How are you people getting huge fuel tanks into orbit and docking them? I barely managed to get a probe up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 10:34:07 am
Quote from: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:31:16 am
How are you people getting huge fuel tanks into orbit and docking them? I barely managed to get a probe up there.
A single mainsail engine + tank + 4 booster engines should be capable of getting a partly full orange tank into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:35:06 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 10:34:07 am
Quote from: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:31:16 am
How are you people getting huge fuel tanks into orbit and docking them? I barely managed to get a probe up there.
A single mainsail engine + tank + 4 booster engines should be capable of getting a partly full orange tank into orbit.

Whaaaat? At what point does the weight of the engines overcome their lifting capability?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 06, 2012, 10:39:58 am
...never? Engines would be useless if they didn't have a thrust-to-weight of more than one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 10:51:14 am
Quote from: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:35:06 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 10:34:07 am
Quote from: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 10:31:16 am
How are you people getting huge fuel tanks into orbit and docking them? I barely managed to get a probe up there.
A single mainsail engine + tank + 4 booster engines should be capable of getting a partly full orange tank into orbit.

Whaaaat? At what point does the weight of the engines overcome their lifting capability?
Just to clarify, since I've been pretty not clear. The partly full fuel tank was on a second stage with it's own mainsail engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 06, 2012, 10:57:22 am
It might also be nice to have a very dense "Pebble Bed Reactor" clone of the radiothermal generator that pumps out substantially more power than the radiothermal one. Combine that with a VASMIR rocket and a Xenon container the size of a normal fuel tank, and you'd have a compromise engine like what people are looking for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 11:05:10 am
I'd like heat to be a resource first. Being able to install radiators, or cooling vents(dumping liquid nitrogen) or redirecting heat from the engines to other nonimportant parts of the ship seems fun.

It might be even more fun if we got the ability to use fuel as an emergence cooling liquid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 06, 2012, 11:15:45 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on December 05, 2012, 05:35:24 pm
Quote from: peskyninja on December 05, 2012, 05:26:26 pm
Why do my rockets look so phallic?

It's a rocket.

Right said Freud (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~tsk23/Songs/other.html#freud)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 11:30:02 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 06, 2012, 10:39:58 am
...never? Engines would be useless if they didn't have a thrust-to-weight of more than one.

Derp, sorry, I meant the weight of the fuel. xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on December 06, 2012, 12:01:31 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 11:05:10 am
I'd like heat to be a resource first. Being able to install radiators, or cooling vents(dumping liquid nitrogen) or redirecting heat from the engines to other nonimportant parts of the ship seems fun.

It might be even more fun if we got the ability to use fuel as an emergence cooling liquid.

FYI real life liquid rocket engines are already cooled by their own, usually supercooled fuel as it flowed in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 12:04:18 pm
Quote from: JWNoctis on December 06, 2012, 12:01:31 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 06, 2012, 11:05:10 am
I'd like heat to be a resource first. Being able to install radiators, or cooling vents(dumping liquid nitrogen) or redirecting heat from the engines to other nonimportant parts of the ship seems fun.

It might be even more fun if we got the ability to use fuel as an emergence cooling liquid.
FYI real life liquid rocket engines are already cooled by their own, usually supercooled fuel as it flowed in.
Of course they are. As are KSP's engines, as long as you don't run them on full thrust.

But I meant evaporating liquid fuel in emergencies to cool the craft down, because you decided making a close orbit to the sun would work out fine, or something like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 06, 2012, 12:20:48 pm
For some reason, the idea of using fuel to cool things down (outside of the regular methods) makes me want to suggest oxygen tank stirrers as well. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2012, 01:29:15 pm
also works that way in cars, fuel absorb heats and gets expelled.


uhm, how you rename crafts and change their icon?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 06, 2012, 01:34:45 pm
Right click the command pod and select "rename".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 01:34:58 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2012, 01:29:15 pm
also works that way in cars, fuel absorb heats and gets expelled.


uhm, how you rename crafts and change their icon?

Right click on the command module while in-mission, then click rename. Interestingly, there are icons for rovers and bases despite them not being officially supported.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 06, 2012, 01:44:34 pm
"Tranquility Base, here.  The Eagle has landed.  So I'm just right clicking on it, changing the name to 'Tranquility' and the icon type to Base... do you know how little fuel I have in the decent stage?  Now I just need to extend the ladder... whoops!  I've just retracted the landing gear, and now my engine's detached...  Maybe I should send a rescue mission..."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 06, 2012, 03:25:35 pm
Is there an up to date tutorial on good rocket design anywhere? I think mine are overcomplicated somewhat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 06, 2012, 04:58:41 pm
Man, this has gotten so much better since last time I tried! I think I'll be trying to put an orbital space station into orbit... but first I'll need to be able to get some rocket into orbit... any rocket!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 06, 2012, 05:24:57 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 06, 2012, 04:58:41 pm
Man, this has gotten so much better since last time I tried! I think I'll be trying to put an orbital space station into orbit... but first I'll need to be able to get some rocket into orbit... any rocket!

Look up the Asparagus stalk rocket design. It's based on a real rocket design and is very efficient. Makes getting into orbit a lot easier, and it really isn't that hard to make.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 06, 2012, 06:12:39 pm
Asparagus stalk: make rocket, add 4x symetry rockets (or more, but 4 is good to learn with at first). Set fuel lines so two outer rockets are fueling the one next to them, then the ones they are fueling should fuel the middle rocket. Set the decouplers up so that as the first rockets run out of fuel they get decoupled, making it so you drop the dead weight while still having multiple engines running. Repeat when the outer rockets are done and you'll still have the middle rocket with a full tank of fuel on it, and it doesn't have dead weight to push either.

If you load up the default "Kerbal X" rocket you can see the asparagus stalk system in place, look at the design and learn from it, try flying it and see how it works.

Also keep in mind that if you want a fuel efficient launch you shouldn't be going faster than terminal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 06, 2012, 06:28:01 pm
Which forces one to ask, what is terminal velocity for a specific spaceship. The answer is, velocity relative the atmosphere when your ship is falling through it with no powered thrust.
You might see your ship moving at terminal velocity if you were to just turn off the engines mid-launch and seeing what your peak speed while falling down is.

How would you quickly find out your terminal velocity?

The kerbaliest way possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2012, 06:38:46 pm
anybody else got the impression that kerbin is not inclined?

Launches as game progress launch at some angle when compared to previous launches, and I'm pretty sure my launches are perfect, as when I launch two near in time they get up extremely close.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 06:41:22 pm
Hmm, launching straight upwards seems to actually be quite effective if you don't mind only having one shot at anything and it being at insane speeds.
There's no angles to calculate anyway. Just timing. I managed to build up a rocket enough that launching straight up took it's orbit a good way of the distance towards Jools'. And this rocket wasn't even meant to do that. I was meant to carry things around Kerbin and it's moons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 06, 2012, 06:43:24 pm
Whoa, that's interesting stuff. How necessary is using those fuel line techniques? Why does that work best than having them all thrust at full speed? It seems each fuel+rocket assembly's thrust would compensate for its own weight, and then some. Since the weight of the remaining parts of the ship is constant, the more fuel/rocket assemblies you have, the less the impact of the remaining parts of the ship. But I guess this doesn't work. Something to do with drag and reducing terminal velocity? Also, I like the idea of one brave Kerbonaut sacrificing himself to transmit terminal velocity values. *salute*


My current design gets into space, but then I lack fuel to move into orbit or lack structural integrity to add more fuel!

Also, I am having massive difficulties controlling rotation along the altitude axis. I've got 4 of both types of RCS thrusters, but it only starts working once I ditch most engines. Any other tips?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 06:50:53 pm
Gimbal.
If your engines aren't gimballing engines, make them so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 06, 2012, 06:54:11 pm
The fuel line linking is critical.

Basically what it does is let you drop off dead weight as early as possible. Weight is drag and costs fuel, so you want to get rid of empty tanks and engines as soon as possible.

Let's say you have a simple rocket with 3 fuel tanks and an engine, with 4 side-mounted rockets of 3 fuel tanks and an engine apiece.

Normally, you'd get something like this:

All engines burn through 1 fuel tank in their stalk - you now have 5 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 5 engines.
All engines burn through 1 fuel tank in their stalk - you now have 10 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 5 engines.
All engines burn through 1 fuel tank in their stalk - you are now done with all 15 fuel tanks + 5 engines

With the fuel pumping, you get this:

All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 2 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 5 engines.
All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 4 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 5 engines.
All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 6 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 5 engines.
  - Separate the two empty stalks - you now have 0 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 3 engines.
All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 2 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 3 engines.
All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 4 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 3 engines.
All engines burn through 2 fuel tanks total (1 on each side) - you now have 6 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 3 engines.
  - Separate the two empty stalks - you now have 0 empty fuel tanks you're carrying around + 1 engines.

You're now down to your main rocket with 3 full fuel tanks and 1 engine. You've saved yourself a TON of weight on the way up which means you saved a huge amount of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 06, 2012, 07:09:36 pm
Do what someone in the Let's Play I'm watching did.

Make a simple rocket like you normally would: make it a command pod with a fuel tank+engine and 4x symmetry fuel tanks with appropriate engines. Fire full throttle straight up and see how far you go.

Take the same ship but use asparagus stalk system on those tanks, see how far you go.

I might just link the video if I can be assed to find it.

As far as terminal velocity goes, I just use http://kspwiki.nexisonline.net/wiki/Atmosphere#Terminal_velocity and it seems to work fairly well. oddly enough the page for Kerbin itself does not show TV values, while others do. EDIT: Rule of thumb I use is get to ~110 m/s, then gradually accelerate so that when I reach 10000m altitude I'm going ~260 m/s. After that I just continue accelerating at around that rate, maybe more, until there's no more atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 06, 2012, 07:12:53 pm
Does anyone know how to transfer Kerbals between command modules without doing an EVA? The clampotron Jr's description implies that it's possible but I haven't been able to find out how.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 07:14:15 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on December 06, 2012, 07:12:53 pm
Does anyone know how to transfer Kerbals between command modules without doing an EVA? The clampotron Jr's description implies that it's possible but I haven't been able to find out how.
Got to ask first, but are they actually docked together?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 06, 2012, 07:14:42 pm
You can't, you need to do EVA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2012, 07:16:23 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 06:50:53 pm
Gimbal.
If your engines aren't gimballing engines, make them so.


gimbal doesn't control roll, because of lazy developers.

wings on lower atmos stages and rcs in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 07:19:07 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2012, 07:16:23 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 06, 2012, 06:50:53 pm
Gimbal.
If your engines aren't gimballing engines, make them so.


gimbal doesn't control roll, because of lazy developers.

wings on lower atmos stages and rcs in space.
What about those tiny radial engines?
They'd cause roll. From my play anyway, gimbal can control roll if you have radially mounted engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 06, 2012, 09:31:11 pm
Is flying exactly at escape velocity more efficient than thrusting until your apo is at 100,000 km, then shutting off until you get there, then turning sideways and boosting into orbit?
Unless they are different methods with different goals.

I think I'll have to try the asparagus stalk model, though I still haven't been able to rendezvous with anything yet >_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 06, 2012, 09:50:01 pm
It's probably better to boost up until your apo is at least out of atmosphere, then boosting yourself at the apoapsis until the periapsis is out of the atmosphere. It might be kinda tricky though, which is why gravity turns help. If you go straight up you'll need lots of delta-V to get yourself into orbit, but if you're already going somewhat where you need to go it's much easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 07, 2012, 01:02:10 am
So I just got the paid version after only having played the trial and I decided to make Turbo/Ram planes. All my planes were unmanned since I knew I'd be crashing a lot. After quite a few versions with twin engines with a tank mounted computer in the middle where I'd really like to have an engine I came up with this.
(http://i.imgur.com/YMudos.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/YMudo.jpg)
It's fiddly as hell but it manages an ungodly thrust/weight/lift ratio. It can take off before the first set of white lines on the side of the runway and I've gotten it above 1100meters/sec and to 38,975meters altitude in separate flights.

edit: 57,405m is my new record
edit2: 67,070m, I have gotten a 100% air breathing craft outside of the atmosphere.
edit3: 77,868m (http://i.imgur.com/DVmaUs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/DVmaU.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 07, 2012, 01:06:43 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 06, 2012, 09:31:11 pm
Is flying exactly at escape velocity more efficient than thrusting until your apo is at 100,000 km, then shutting off until you get there, then turning sideways and boosting into orbit?
Unless they are different methods with different goals.

I think I'll have to try the asparagus stalk model, though I still haven't been able to rendezvous with anything yet >_<

We had a huge 10 page discussion about this a while back.

Conclusion: Gravity turning works. as soon as you are out the the thickest quarter atmosphere, start turning the craft, ideally ending the turn at apoasis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 07, 2012, 01:53:54 am
That'd be the Troposphere.

It's where all the weather happens.

I'm working on rendezvousing a project myself. Once I do so successfully once, then I'm going to decide weather to get MechJeb out of storage or what.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 04:02:10 am
2 days with game without mechjeb and that mod that changes aerodynamics: 9 sucessfull dockings.
3 days with mechjeb and the other mod: 0 dockings.


I thinking about killing myself. I can't handle it.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 04:20:49 am
the aerodynamic mod hugely increase difficulty, specially when combined with mechjeb

because in vanilla for now aerodynamic center can be put far back just by winglets, but with the ferram mod the other half of the rocket also have their aero pressure applied, so it is extremely easy to have an aerodynamically unstable rocket. (lift center above the gravity center)


it doesn't help that mechjeb makes its turn abruptly under the standard profile. this way you get a very high angle of attack suddenly and your rocket starts flipping.

try editing the ascent path, with a 100% curve, turn start at 1km and turn end at 60km

that works for me. also, you can start, turn early ay 70° inclination and asas all the way trough the atmosphere; less efficient but this way you keep the angle of attack alway small and will help in non getting your rocket flipping
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 06:31:47 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 04:20:49 am
the aerodynamic mod hugely increase difficulty, specially when combined with mechjeb

because in vanilla for now aerodynamic center can be put far back just by winglets, but with the ferram mod the other half of the rocket also have their aero pressure applied, so it is extremely easy to have an aerodynamically unstable rocket. (lift center above the gravity center)


it doesn't help that mechjeb makes its turn abruptly under the standard profile. this way you get a very high angle of attack suddenly and your rocket starts flipping.

try editing the ascent path, with a 100% curve, turn start at 1km and turn end at 60km

that works for me. also, you can start, turn early ay 70° inclination and asas all the way trough the atmosphere; less efficient but this way you keep the angle of attack alway small and will help in non getting your rocket flipping
I've found it incredibly easier to get rockets in orbit with the aerodynamic mod. I don't know if my series of failures is due to design errors or the mods but mechjeb surely haven't helped nothing by puting my rockets in a polar orbit wen I've clearly stated a "0" heading. Just made my power nodule rendevouz with my station, 15 meters  then I've realized that my RCS was no alligned properly. Pressing shift or ctrl to chenge heigth results in the whole ship rotating along the Z axis. :( I'll need to launch an improved version)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 07, 2012, 07:21:26 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 06:31:47 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 04:20:49 am
the aerodynamic mod hugely increase difficulty, specially when combined with mechjeb

because in vanilla for now aerodynamic center can be put far back just by winglets, but with the ferram mod the other half of the rocket also have their aero pressure applied, so it is extremely easy to have an aerodynamically unstable rocket. (lift center above the gravity center)


it doesn't help that mechjeb makes its turn abruptly under the standard profile. this way you get a very high angle of attack suddenly and your rocket starts flipping.

try editing the ascent path, with a 100% curve, turn start at 1km and turn end at 60km

that works for me. also, you can start, turn early ay 70° inclination and asas all the way trough the atmosphere; less efficient but this way you keep the angle of attack alway small and will help in non getting your rocket flipping
I've found it incredibly easier to get rockets in orbit with the aerodynamic mod. I don't know if my series of failures is due to design errors or the mods but mechjeb surely haven't helped nothing by puting my rockets in a polar orbit wen I've clearly stated a "0" heading. Just made my power nodule rendevouz with my station, 15 meters  then I've realized that my RCS was no alligned properly. Pressing shift or ctrl to chenge heigth results in the whole ship rotating along the Z axis. :( I'll need to launch an improved version)
0 heading IS a polar orbit. You want a 0 inclination... You can click the button to switch between heading and inclination, but don't confuse the two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 07, 2012, 07:51:38 am
Quote from: Mephansteras on December 06, 2012, 06:54:11 pm
The fuel line linking is critical.

Basically what it does is let you drop off dead weight as early as possible. Weight is drag and costs fuel, so you want to get rid of empty tanks and engines as soon as possible.

I sometimes have experimented with the outermost engine-bottomed stacks having further fuel-tanks (not in connected stacks, but in sliced 'rings') hanging off from radial decouplers and fuel-linked to to the ring above and the ring above (and the ring above...) and then into the outermost stack.  For an assembly that would not have been able to make the most of full-throttle anyway (for aforementioned air-resistance reasons) putting this additional weight on that slows it down is not a disadvantage if I can still full-throttle (or nearly so) the whole stack but be using the stack rings (from bottom to top) in turn, and keeping everything else topped up longer.

Drop the bottom-most ring when empty, the next bottom-most ring when that's empty, etc.  By then I've sometimes found myself in orbit[1] with almost all 'engine-bottomed tanks' still full, giving me a good burn off to whatever off-Kerbin trajectory I care to try.

As a (basic) segment-slice diagram, the following is the general plan...


        ,--centre
        |
        v

        A
  3=4=5=H=5=4=3
    4 5 H 5 4
  2=4 5 H 5 4=2
    4 5 H 5 4
  1=4-5-H-5-4=1
    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

A          (capsule)
H <- Centre stack
^          (engine)

1, 2, 3, 4, 5 fuel tanks jetissoned off 1st..5th
= <- decoupler
- <- strut (for strength, these being radial ones but you also need ones that link circumeferencially)


Fuel-transfers (also the probably necessary SASes/etc) not shown, but are 1->2->3->4->5->H, with 4->5 and 5->H being from the bottom tank of the source to the top fuel-tank of the destination (not sure if necessary, but I've always done that, by habit).

Because of the 6-symmetry (or 8-symmetry, of traditional-thickness tanks immediately surrounding the larger sized central core), the 'stages' and fuel-links between (say) the 4-stage and the 5-stage would be via 4a, 4b, 4c... opposing pairs, to be disposed of in turn, as you might imagine, once those sectors of this current 'outer-layer' are a depleted force (this needs to be reflected in the "fuel only" rings, also, either in how you feed or how you jettison).  And if you suffer undue wobbles after a part-layer separation event (the circumference strutting between now absent outer sectors and the the (still) adjacent tanks in that 'ring' having gone), you may need to also add struts between the not-first-to-go segment stack and diagonally inwards to an inner-layer to add rigidity/non-elasticity to the structure.  (Sometimes I've managed to fit "miss one" links between non-adjacent segments either side of the segments that would be first to go, but it depends on how the rest of the structure aligns.  However, if it attaches the terminator to the next ring in, instead, then just repeat in the other direction and you get the diagonally inwards links as just described, for much the same effect.)

(Due to the sometimes highly-fragile nature of the ship, though, I tend to shut off engines, decouple then start the engines up again (powering out of the debris once I can see it's not likely to spin into an engine), for some non-atmospheric 'stagings'.)


I don't think it's as good a method as having all jettisonable fuel-stacks 'work for their supper' with their very own engines[2], arranged in layers so that you shuck off 'rings' of boosters[3] (or the simpler "asparagus" model just talked about, which sounds similar but I've not seen/tried during my rather lonesome endeavours), but if/when an economic model states that engines are at a premium while mere fuel tanks are much cheaper it could be a more cost-effective way to lift.



[1] With a judicious lateral component to the upward flight.  Although I've also experimented with "just go up!", right from my first experiments with KSP, with only solar orbits (and unclosed, solar-escape orbits) to aim for once I've gotten beyond the Mun.

[2] Also, I've had rather wide designs that sometimes do (but sometimes don't) clip the launch structure, creating imbalances either straight away or as soon as that sector of inner-rings runs out of fuel early..

[3] And, within that ring, symmetrically opposite pairs of boosters in turn, if I've edited the .craft file to get what was laid down as sixfold/eightfold symmetries to now behave as similarly aligned triplets/tetruplets of two-fold symmetric addons, for the fine control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Look at that beauty! Hopefully that is the main body of the dimitri space station.
Spoiler: snip (click to show/hide)
Also I am mistaken, so is mechjeb. I set it up for a 0 INCLINATION.




Spoiler: Before removing engines (click to show/hide)
Edit: The Kerellen station is 1/5 finished!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 07, 2012, 10:02:10 am
well, I just discovered an important thing.
if your rockets tend to leave behind debris, your station should be above debris ring.

can't target it anymore...

edit: also, I am surprised at how much debris comes withing 5 kilometers from my ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 10:19:10 am
Quote from: andrea on December 07, 2012, 10:02:10 am
well, I just discovered an important thing.
if your rockets tend to leave behind debris, your station should be above debris ring.

can't target it anymore...

edit: also, I am surprised at how much debris comes withing 5 kilometers from my ship.
One of my old mapping sats just hit a 2 normal grey tank and 1 orange assembly thing. The poor bastard didn't make it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 10:31:07 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

why only three of the 7 unobstructed engine are firing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 10:41:16 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 10:31:07 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

why only three of the 7 unobstructed engine are firing?
Because they are seven Mainsail engines. That whole thing could be lifted up by two. He'd be wasting fuel of the upper stages to air resistance if he were using all engines at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 07, 2012, 10:45:23 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 10:41:16 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 10:31:07 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

why only three of the 7 unobstructed engine are firing?
Because they are seven Mainsail engines. That whole thing could be lifted up by two. He'd be wasting fuel of the upper stages to air resistance if he were using all engines at once.
At that altitude, yes. However, the staging setup means he is doing that the whole way; wasting fuel to gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 07, 2012, 11:00:21 am
I'd have gone for the aforementioned (Asparagus-thingummy) set-up and throttled down, in the lower altitudes at least, for a longer burn/more fuel left over

But I don't know what sort of comparative lift efficiency there would be between throttled-down mainsails (all of them, Asparagus-like) at whatever fuel-rate they would be working vs non-mainsails doing the same Asparagus thing at full(ish) throttle and whatever rate that is.


However, I've no idea what the ultimate aim of the station is, how far up (or how far away) it's going to be placed, etc.  There could be "reasons".


A now a quick question from me (not having had a chance to try it out yet)...  If a docking module has two docking ports, lining up with two docking ports on the thing-to-be-docked-with, will it attach at both points?  And, if so, will the 'magnetism' help adjust any minor misalignment (rotational and/or translational)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 07, 2012, 11:01:34 am
Didn't we do a test earlier on and found that the concept of "wasting fuel to air resistance" wasn't actually a thing, and it was in fact best to gun it as fast as possible?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 07, 2012, 11:21:49 am
I'm not sure, but I think the consensus was that as long as you stay below like 1500m/s (ground level), everything is fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 11:28:50 am
I just asked why  :-[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 12:01:18 pm
Quote from: alway on December 07, 2012, 10:45:23 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 10:41:16 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 07, 2012, 10:31:07 am
Quote from: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

why only three of the 7 unobstructed engine are firing?
Because they are seven Mainsail engines. That whole thing could be lifted up by two. He'd be wasting fuel of the upper stages to air resistance if he were using all engines at once.
At that altitude, yes. However, the staging setup means he is doing that the whole way; wasting fuel to gravity.
There's a balance to strike there. He's using the thrust of three mainsail engines - easily enough to go at double the terminal velocity - for most of the way, as it seems to be, through the atmosphere. The last stage is three tanks and one more Mainsail, which, at the altitude and speed the previous setups will get you to, can pretty much carry you to GSO by themselves, if not Mun orbit. The NERVA and another full tank he's got for orbital maneuvers will get him anywhere.

Quote from: Graknorke on December 07, 2012, 11:01:34 am
Didn't we do a test earlier on and found that the concept of "wasting fuel to air resistance" wasn't actually a thing, and it was in fact best to gun it as fast as possible?
Take a Mainsail and a single standard 3m tank, under a Mk3 capsule. Max throttle up and see how far you go. (my experiment: 28Km) Then take the same setup and swap the mainsail for the closest thing mass and Isp-wise - six of the Mark55 surface-mounted engines - throttle up and see how far it goes. (my experiment - 58Km) See the difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on December 07, 2012, 12:20:23 pm
If he's only using the thrust of 3 mainsails at a time, he would get more delta-V if he converted three of those boosters into drop-tanks. Simply remove three engines and add three fuel-lines. That will shave 18 tons off of the Stage-1 weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 07, 2012, 12:34:24 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 12:01:18 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 07, 2012, 11:01:34 am
Didn't we do a test earlier on and found that the concept of "wasting fuel to air resistance" wasn't actually a thing, and it was in fact best to gun it as fast as possible?
Take a Mainsail and a single standard 3m tank, under a Mk3 capsule. Max throttle up and see how far you go. (my experiment: 28Km) Then take the same setup and swap the mainsail for the closest thing mass and Isp-wise - six of the Mark55 surface-mounted engines - throttle up and see how far it goes. (my experiment - 58Km) See the difference.

Or for a more concise demonstration, repeat the launch of the mainsail rocket but keep the throttle at 50% the whole time (the end result is the same).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 07, 2012, 12:55:38 pm
Quote from: Karlito on December 07, 2012, 12:34:24 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 07, 2012, 12:01:18 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 07, 2012, 11:01:34 am
Didn't we do a test earlier on and found that the concept of "wasting fuel to air resistance" wasn't actually a thing, and it was in fact best to gun it as fast as possible?
Take a Mainsail and a single standard 3m tank, under a Mk3 capsule. Max throttle up and see how far you go. (my experiment: 28Km) Then take the same setup and swap the mainsail for the closest thing mass and Isp-wise - six of the Mark55 surface-mounted engines - throttle up and see how far it goes. (my experiment - 58Km) See the difference.

Or for a more concise demonstration, repeat the launch of the mainsail rocket but keep the throttle at 50% the whole time (the end result is the same).

Confirmed. 3 person pod, single full sized grey tank, mainsail engine. Full throttle got to 28km. Half throttle got to 64 km. Full throttle is not the best way to go.

Scaled it up as well, but is less of a confirmation as I had to fiddle with the throttle on the full run to keep it from overheating, but with an orange tank. Full throttle(down to about 4/5ths to avoid boom) got to 275kmish. Half throttle(down to about 2/5ths to stay at half of the full run) 325km.

Full throttle is not the way to go until you're out of the thick part of the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 01:11:03 pm
In that screen I was using cheatjeb so it was full throttle (I was eating). But in my experience is much better to go full throtle on the first few meters, wait till you wasted some fuel and the rocket is ligther then start to lower the throtle to maintain a desired speed then only after you exited 3/4 of the atmos you can go full throttle. (This is for increasing AP, if you go into orbit withou tfull throttle you will have an AP of 120km or so)That design I've posted earlier seems to be pretty efficient if used in the correct way, you could remove some engines but I have no patience to crawl into space.

Ask me question now because I'm going to travel to the countryside tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 07, 2012, 01:12:30 pm
Or to repeat the conclusion we came to earlier (after all, we had like 10 pages of discussion on the issue), it depends on the weight and such of the craft. For a dense craft, gravity is more a concern than air resistance due to the inherently low upwards acceleration (as the extra weight makes it the equivalent of being at partial throttle on a smaller craft). Light and medium craft (in this case, medium meaning about the size of that in the previous image) should start at lower thrust; heavy and super-heavy craft should pretty much go full blast (and in most cases, can't even get off the ground with anything less).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 01:58:52 pm
Quote from: alway on December 07, 2012, 01:12:30 pm
Or to repeat the conclusion we came to earlier (after all, we had like 10 pages of discussion on the issue), it depends on the weight and such of the craft. For a dense craft, gravity is more a concern than air resistance due to the inherently low upwards acceleration (as the extra weight makes it the equivalent of being at partial throttle on a smaller craft). Light and medium craft (in this case, medium meaning about the size of that in the previous image) should start at lower thrust; heavy and super-heavy craft should pretty much go full blast (and in most cases, can't even get off the ground with anything less).
Checking my ascent details in mechcheat, I've noticed that my air resistance losses are 6%(?)(I am surprised too.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 07, 2012, 03:38:51 pm
You never want to start out at low thrust:

You want to full burn up to some point (We figure it's a bit above 200m/s)
then throttle down(still gaining speed) to some undetermined point, and slowly throttle up.

Many vehicles can burn at full thrust all the way, depending on the thrust/weight ration, so this might not apply to your craft.

to the new guys, go read wikipedia on gravity drag, and you will see why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: peskyninja on December 07, 2012, 03:49:15 pm
Spoiler: Wobbly station is wobblying. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Lazy munar colony (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Minmus probe (click to show/hide)
And that's all folks. I'm off to bed. Tomorrow will be a long day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on December 07, 2012, 10:02:29 pm
While flying to the crater site I saw some specks in the desert...
And found this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A higher view.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A quick test confirms they are solid.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And then... woah.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another angle
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 07, 2012, 10:03:20 pm
Quote from: Roboboy33 on December 07, 2012, 10:02:29 pm
While flying to the crater site I saw some specks in the desert...
And found this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A higher view.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A quick test confirms they are solid.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And then... woah.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another angle
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Whoa, is this on Kerbin? :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Roboboy33 on December 07, 2012, 10:04:39 pm
Yes, it's in the desrert.
6o 31' 48" S
141o 41' 3" W
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 07, 2012, 10:25:08 pm
gasp. is there a city on the world yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 08, 2012, 03:29:32 am
Quote from: ank on December 07, 2012, 03:38:51 pm
You never want to start out at low thrust:

You want to full burn up to some point (We figure it's a bit above 200m/s)
then throttle down(still gaining speed) to some undetermined point, and slowly throttle up.

Many vehicles can burn at full thrust all the way, depending on the thrust/weight ration, so this might not apply to your craft.

to the new guys, go read wikipedia on gravity drag, and you will see why.
Actually, we have those science sensors now! They tell atmospheric pressure, g forces, and the force of gravity. I suspect with some decent calculus, we might actually get to the bottom of the exact numbers. In any case, vaccuum appears to start at ~45km; so anything above there should always be as full thrust as is practical.
As for atmospheric pressure, it appears to be about 50% the starting pressure at around 3500m, droping to 33% at around 5500m, 20% at 8000m, 10% at 11000m, 5% at 15000m, 1% at 23000, 0.1% at 35000.

The air resistance should be proportional to the density of the air. That density is generally hard to calculate, and as such, I will assume KSP has a simple system where the two are effectively one and the same (if they simulate air temperature in the atmosphere somehow, this is a false assumption; but I'm pretty sure they don't actually do that). Which in turn means that, ignoring staging, air resistance force is relative to those values above. The other thing of note in the drag formula is that it uses velocity squared. Doubling velocity quadruples air resistance. Though doubling velocity also causes air density to drop off at the measured rates much more quickly, as well as reducing the delta v lost to gravity. So it's mostly a matter of balancing a few integrals. !!SCIENCE!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 08, 2012, 05:02:41 am
well, you'd have to figure out a function for air drag, then find where the graph crosses the graph for gravity drag.
I'm guessing it's something along the lines of F=drag*speed^2.
Problem is that it's likely measured in Newtons per meter, and the function for gravity gives Newtons per second, right?
I'm sure there's a way to convert, it just escapes me right now.

One thing that is on our side is that pretty much all parts have the same weight/drag ration, which means that the rules will be the same for all ships, no matter how big or how small, the only important thing is the weight/thrust ration.

As far as I recall the function for gravity drag is just gravity acceleration: F=g*m , so the net thrust would be Thrust-(g*m). so we plot thrust as x and net thrust as y, which should give us a linear function.

And....... now I'm stuck.... need to think more about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 07:53:21 am
I present you the leviathan, the last iteration of my unimaginative rockets to attach big engines and fuel to different things that may need it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It can easily get into 100 to 150km orbits, and after that it still have plenty of fuel for further maneuvering. here is the final maneuvering form:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Based on previous iterations and experiences, I split the maneuvering fuel from the payload fuel. Also, after some Jools exploration experiences, I added some lateral docking ports, so another leviathan can come and refuel it for extremely long missions (actually works best using two leviathans attached so when they arrive one is still full).

the capsule has some fuel for reentry from a low orbit, but you will need other means to bring the guy back from an extended refueling mission...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on December 08, 2012, 08:19:46 am
WARNING: Large Images

Finally managed to ship my little green men off to another planet! Got in a nice orbit with Duna, which involved a close encounter with Ike:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cooeeee:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Said encounter:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And even managed to set her down without ripping anything off with the parachutes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm loving the new version. :D Maneuvers help a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 08, 2012, 08:37:36 am
While you are all out visiting other planets...

Spoiler: SSTO Success! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 08, 2012, 08:39:32 am
I just discovered that my station now wobbles too much for any docking attempt to be made. :P will need to redesign next one, but for the moment I had to scrap my refueling mission.
but at least I tested my debris-free refueling rocket. brings 4 tanks of RCS and 3/4 of a standard large diameter tank of fuel. then deorbit. and can land crew safely.

now, onward to other planets!
standard mission to moon and minmus, then docking in space to get to other planets.

( any tip on making stations stable? besides perhaps not leaving last stage fuel tanks attached to it)

great SSTO and space station, Sean!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 08, 2012, 09:13:52 am
I've found that leaving the area (going back to tracking station, not just going into on rails) and coming back makes the stations stable until you control them again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 08, 2012, 09:24:18 am
I'm trying to build the asparagus design with 6 stalks+ central, but I can't seem to split the decouplers correctly. For some reason they are grouped into 5+1, and I can't seem to select only two to put in a different stage. Any tips?:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 08, 2012, 09:28:32 am
Click 5 group to wxexpand. Click on green selected decouplers to deselect, and ctrl+click to select.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 08, 2012, 09:34:45 am
That's precisely what I thought would work, but doesn't. It turns out double-clicking on the group will deselect everything, and I can pop them out one by one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 08, 2012, 09:48:30 am
I just had (what I consider at least) to be a major success for my space station. I managed to deliver a FULL orange tank and dock it. I then took one of the crew and she(?) became the first Kerbalite to become a permanent resident of the space station. It includes 6 solar cells, plenty of batteries and 1 storage container.

As per my requirement on all space station missions, the delivery craft decoupled and returned to Kerbin safely. I have had 5 constructions missions so far and only lost 3 total crew (not counting launch pad failures... those are just simulations right?) The first guy tried an eva but my game pad was messed up so he ended up floating into orbit, never to be seen again.

The second 2 where on my first fuel depot delivery. It was a very strange craft design that invloved a very late mission (just before return) decoupling and then flying backwards. I decoupled and flew the wrong direction. Smashed full speed into my own space junk. Curses.

I think I will do a few other deliveries and then use it as a staging point for a Mun or Minus mission (not that I need a staging point for those...)

In case anyone is interested, my strategy for getting larger loads into orbit is this. It only covers liquid engines, I'll add a note about boosters at the bottom.

1. Get MechJeb for Thrust to Weight ratio calculations. This is very important.

2. Build your payload. This will be everything you want when you dock. It includes your command pod, their return system (if required), and what you are delivering.

3. Build your upper stage. This stage is generally used at the tail end of the flight to finish getting into orbit. It is also used to push your payload into position. It is extremely important the TWR (thrust to weight ratio) on this stage and every stage is > or very close to 1.

4. You now have a stage that can push your payload until its fuel runs out. Your goal has to be to get the payload stage as close to orbit as possible. To do that you need another stage (or two). We'll call this the pusher stage. The pusher stage follows the same rule as the upper stage, TWR has to equal (or be greater than) 1. Keep in mind that the weight here includes the upper stage AND payload (MechJeb takes this into account).

Quick example. You know your upper stage is 1 LV-T45 engine and 2 TL-T800 fuel tanks. This will only burn for 250 seconds, not long enough to make it to orbit. To fix this you need a pusher stage.

First, add radial decouplers to the upper stage. Next you add 3 of the TL-T800 tanks and to each stack you add an LV-T45 engine. This, in my example craft, put me at .96 TWR. I can fix this one of two ways. First is boosters. Adding a booster to this stage will give me free thrust while some weight from liquid fuel burns off. The second way is my favorite.

Simply attach your pusher stage to your upper stage with a fuel line. If you go from the bottom each stage you will be able to fuel your upper stage with fuel from your pusher stage.

Either way, you now have a pusher stage that is self contained. The distance the pusher stage travels before it burns out is all free, it is simply postponing the time before you have to engage your upper stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 10:22:47 am
Something is wrong about the buoyancy.

Spoiler: doing science (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 08, 2012, 11:03:21 am
So.

I can't manage maneuvering in space.

I managed to detatch my tug from the main craft for possible space station assembly.

And I ended up flying far, far away, with not a hope of return.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 08, 2012, 11:10:01 am
OH MY GOD YOU GUYS

OH MY GOD

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Absolutely kickass! The Theorem I is in orbit around Kerbin! :D The great astronaut has moved from the control pod and into the living space. Hooray! He will now stay there until he goes crazy.

I had a previous attempt that ended in ... well, let's just say he will be remembered. Basically I had put 4 solar panels up ON the control pod. Which means when Mr. Jebb tried to get out, a "collision" occured. And then a bunch of other stuff, including him panicking and deploying the parachute 200.000km in orbit. We still had one engine, so we tried to bring him down, but the Theorem Mk I didn't have a decoupler so you could have only the control pod+parachute. And the parachute wasn't big enough.

But live and learn. Now, my problem. I have no idea how to use electricity! The only electric engine I saw is TINY.

I honestly have no idea how I would do a rendez-vous, but I am hoping to send a manned moon mission at some point.


Man, KSP is becoming absolutely crazily awesome!


Also, yeah, I have no idea how to manoeuvre in space. Right now I need some boosters on... perhaps the idea is to get one of those electric engines so you don't waste precious precious fuel but can turn at minimum effect to orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 11:12:38 am
it seems that a shielded clamp dor won't attach to another shielded door.  :-\

two launch to remake.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 08, 2012, 11:35:01 am
Spoiler: Spess steshin (click to show/hide)
Here's Space Station 13 along with its first addition, a power module (at the bottom). The core is a tuna can, a storage unit, and two fuel tanks with solar panels all around because it looked spiffy. The docking ports each have an RCS tank to give the clamps a little separation from the rest of the station.
The power module is 40 in-line batteries (each hold 500 charge, for a total of 20,000 charge) on struts to point them outwards, and a strut on each that holds a solar panel for spiffiness (the rear panels don't even catch sunlight).
The station is pointed towards orbit normal so that its broadside is always facing Kerbol for solar collection.

Currently the only use for solar power are the little ion engines, unmanned command modules, and lights. U like to put floodlights on my ships/station that are pointed slightly at it so that it's easier to see in darkness. You can do shift+w or s to angle the lights before placing them to point where you want them to.

Now I just need to think of what else I want to add to this thing...

By the way, F2 hides the hud for screenshot goodness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 12:18:17 pm
after relaunching both with proper clamps...
Spoiler: kraken and leviathan are ready to fly wherever they please (click to show/hide)

I've never been on Moho, for example  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 08, 2012, 01:05:18 pm
I wanted to build a carrier of sorts, where you could dock tinier spaceships and that kind of stuff. I was thinking a mothership for a lunar lander of sorts.

However, I'm stumped with regards to building the lander. I am using the base from my previous gotten-into-orbit Theorem Mk1, but now I wanted to attach another control pod, plus solars, plus engines, plus legs. I was trying to build it vertically as well, but I can't see to do that unless I put a huge fuel-tank sized structure, and I'd like to avoid that. Any ideas?

I'd really like for them to be coupled. The only way I see to do this otherwise is to first send the mothership into orbit. Then send several rockets whose sole purpose is to put semi-autonomous landers in orbit so they can dock with the mothership. The problem with that is managing to rendezvous... that sounds hard!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 01:40:59 pm
the lazor system?

http://kerbalspaceport.com/lazor-system/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 08, 2012, 01:56:55 pm
Any estimates as to when .18.2 will come out?

Mainly because 18.1 is basically broken for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 08, 2012, 02:31:01 pm
I want to tell you about Bill Kerman.

He was the first Kerbonaut to touch the moon. Unfortunately, he did so in pieces. He was a hero.


It was an epic voyage, where everything was going just fine and dandy until I tried to turn on the electric engines on my moon landers. It turns out electric energy isn't enough, OH NO, of course it isn't. It turns out you need some xenon something or other. What the heck! I mean, I get a spaceship to the Mun, it takes two landers in case of !!FUN!!, but then none of them work.

It discovered this after Bill Kerman EVA'd his way into one of the landers. He detached, turned on the engines, then realised batteries were empty. That's fine, he opened the solar panels and waited for a few hours. Then he tried turning them on again. NOTHING. NOTHING, I TELL YOU. So he EVA'd out again. Luckily, the decouplers didn't change orbit too much, so he had about 500m to get to the main craft.

By then, of course, the main craft was low on fuel. We tried to change orbits to see if we could catapult back to Kerbin. It was not to be. Instead, Bill Kerman, the GREAT Bill Kerman, decided he would step foot on the moon no matter what. The remaining fuel was used to lower his orbit into the Mun. And then...

Then Bill Kerman found out that parachutes don't work in space.

What a hero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 08, 2012, 02:33:35 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 08, 2012, 01:44:41 pm
Nope, that adds lasers that simply do stuff like transfer fuel etc.

No destruction lasers.

It has sunbeam lasers, missiles and bombs. All can be controlled by the laser system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 03:07:36 pm
while trying to make a single stage to orbit plane, I got to 1500m/s

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

what is the airspeed record on atmos engines?

(it has triple of every wing that the testing craft had, so it should also work on duna)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 08, 2012, 03:08:44 pm
that is cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 08, 2012, 03:32:21 pm
If you actually download Lazor you'll see parts for the bomb, missile, and sunbeam (which has its own sound effect).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 08, 2012, 04:30:29 pm
I've been investigating the wobbleness issues with large space station, and after a bit of testing I have realized that you can dock more than one clamp between two ships...
Time to start making space stations out of triangles people!

EDIT: ok, it works in theory, however it's really hard to line up the ships perfectly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 08, 2012, 05:15:27 pm
I heard that the storage unit thing is bugged and duplicated kerbals. Is this true?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 08, 2012, 05:16:44 pm
Quote from: Chattox on December 08, 2012, 05:15:27 pm
I heard that the storage unit thing is bugged and duplicated kerbals. Is this true?

How is Kerbal cloning vats a bug?
Clearly it's a feature!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 08, 2012, 10:17:13 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 08, 2012, 08:39:32 am
( any tip on making stations stable? besides perhaps not leaving last stage fuel tanks attached to it)
That was partially the reason behind my previous (as yet not seen to be answered) question of whether two docking port-connections could be made between docker and 'dockee'.  (But the other reason was whether this would also allow more precisely angled alignments.)

But I have a feeling that...

A B
A=B
A B
A=B
A B

...would make A and B hold together stiffer

And that (if you'll excuse the limitations of ASCII)....

A=BB
A   BB
A     BB
A      ║
A     CC
A   CC
A=CC

...could be a basis for a quite a bit stiffer meta-modular station, however you end up docking it together...



edited to add:
Quote from: ank on December 08, 2012, 04:30:29 pm
I've been investigating the wobbleness issues with large space station, and after a bit of testing I have realized that you can dock more than one clamp between two ships...
Time to start making space stations out of triangles people!

EDIT: ok, it works in theory, however it's really hard to line up the ships perfectly.
My question now answered, it seems...  And looks like I wasn't the only one to think this way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 09, 2012, 12:05:41 am
I've been noticing this thing where apparently people attach docking ports to tri-coupler, and then dock with a similar tri-coupler port thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 09, 2012, 01:09:32 am
I've been attempting an Apollo-style Mun mission. So far everything is going great. The landing went off without a hitch and Bob's off on a Munwalk to check out a strange rock formation that was spotted by a probe I sent earlier. The only thing I'm really worried about is the lander's ascent stage not having enough fuel to make it back to the command module, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I've also got a separate lander ready in orbit to perform a rescue mission or be used as a fuel tanker if need be, so I'm pretty confident Bill and Bob will be going home.

The only real problem I had was with the launch vehicle. Specifically, getting enough thrust while keeping the whole thing from exploding on the launchpad. Mainsail engines were just too unstable. I eventually figured out a way to attach five of the classic liquid fuel engines to the bottom of one of the big tanks and that worked.

How does everyone handle the mainsail engines? Whenever I have used them they make the rocket uncontrollable, dangerously wobbly and prone to spontaneous explosions, especially when there's more than one in a stage. Almost all of my attempts to use them have ended up as failures. I've basically sworn off of them because they're not worth the headache.
Everyone else, on the other hand, seems to have no problem clumping half a dozen of them together to make a working rocket. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 09, 2012, 01:30:53 am
Struts? Mainsails generally require some throttle control as well, to prevent overheating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 09, 2012, 03:25:39 am
Quote from: Mageziya on December 09, 2012, 12:05:41 am
I've been noticing this thing where apparently people attach docking ports to tri-coupler, and then dock with a similar tri-coupler port thing.

I'm gonna steal this. I've had problems with lining up ships, since they often to docked at an angle, the dual or tri-docking clamps would solve that, and only allow 2 or 3 orientations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2012, 05:33:49 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 09, 2012, 01:30:53 am
Struts? Mainsails generally require some throttle control as well, to prevent overheating.

Strangely enough, only if attached to the big red fuel tank
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2012, 06:15:21 am
Yeah, I found that out the hard way when I tried to get my station into orbit, and maneuvered from the map mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 09, 2012, 07:03:54 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2012, 05:33:49 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 09, 2012, 01:30:53 am
Struts? Mainsails generally require some throttle control as well, to prevent overheating.

Strangely enough, only if attached to the big red fuel tank
As far as I know, it's a bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 09, 2012, 07:11:44 am
So, i've been trying a new aproach to the wobbleness issues:

CLAMPS!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No, wait, I mean: Clamps!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Sadly, it clips through the space station when docked.
But clamps on well when not docked:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Mission failed :(


But look at this baller station intercept!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 09, 2012, 08:04:06 am
Lesson learned: don't use really really light probes that react very delicately to your every RCS thrust when trying to learn docking. SO FRUSTRATING Dx

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That tiny probe is way too reactive towards RCS, and the retrograde swings around everywhere. Dx I can't seem to be able to dock...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 09, 2012, 08:23:48 am
The gravestones keep piling up in my pursuit to create the Populator SSTO.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2012, 08:32:30 am
hard learned lesson: the maneuver node shows how your nose should be aligned, assuming that the trust vector is aligned with your nose  ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on December 09, 2012, 01:01:51 pm
Well the beginning of the KSP communications net is almost fully set up.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
3 Com sats and a orbiting command center over Kerbin (though it's omni antennae broke off) and the Mun.  Just need to put another 3-6 up and I should be able to run any remote controled ship I want, to where ever I want.
I did launch the first part of the Kerbal International Science Station, but I may relaunch it since it ended up in a kind of a bad orbit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 09, 2012, 01:17:43 pm
Are those the default com antennas. Doesn't appear like it to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 09, 2012, 01:30:23 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 09, 2012, 07:03:54 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2012, 05:33:49 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 09, 2012, 01:30:53 am
Struts? Mainsails generally require some throttle control as well, to prevent overheating.

Strangely enough, only if attached to the big red fuel tank
As far as I know, it's a bug.

It is, the red/orange tanks don't disapate heat for some reason. Swap out the orange tank with two white ones (same mass and fuel) and you will see a marked difference in overheating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 09, 2012, 01:32:05 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 09, 2012, 01:17:43 pm
Are those the default com antennas. Doesn't appear like it to me.
There's two antenaes. one is the typical telescopic one that points straight out, the orange one looks like a long, orange oval when folded up, but unfolded it's like a satellite dish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 09, 2012, 01:43:57 pm
I was of the impressions that the antennae were useless. They didn't appear do anything in 0.18
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on December 09, 2012, 01:46:55 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 09, 2012, 01:17:43 pm
Are those the default com antennas. Doesn't appear like it to me.
http://kerbalspaceport.com/remotetech-3/
They aren't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on December 09, 2012, 02:23:53 pm
For fun, you can always make a 9 part probe capable of travelling anywhere in kerbal. Get a box, put two standard canards on it, two of the small radial RCS containers on each wing, a solar panel on both sides and two linear RCS thrusters on the bottom.

Because it flips out in atmosphere, shove it on top of a small rocket to get it out of atmos and fly whereever!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 09, 2012, 03:06:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 08, 2012, 03:07:36 pm
while trying to make a single stage to orbit plane, I got to 1500m/s

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

what is the airspeed record on atmos engines?

(it has triple of every wing that the testing craft had, so it should also work on duna)
(http://i.imgur.com/2nSBns.png) (http://i.imgur.com/2nSBn.png)I think that's my current record. Some guys here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31255-Jet-Altitude-Records-0-18-stock) got to over 2500m/s by putting intakes on intakes on intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:37:22 pm
So, despite being a very early KSP adopter, I've never been what you might call "good" at this game.  And certainly not dedicated.  For instance, never successfully landed on the Mun.  Oh I've landings the pilot could walk away from, but none they could get home with.  Had a really promissing one with v18, but I spaced on time compression and didn't feel like doing it again.

Last night, I made my first and so far only docking attempt.  Took nearly two hours of trial and error to get the craft within docking distance of each other instead of the controlled one flying past a million miles an hour.  Then another two hours into the wee morning fucking with it over and over again to no avail.  It seemed like every time I'd get close enough to do anything, my docking craft would over-correct out of control or the target would start rolling on its own or the flight commands would just up and shift 90 degrees on me.  Eventually I got so pissed off that I just shut it down and went to sleep.

First thing in the morning, tried again and got it within fifteen minutes.  I had basically given up too, just went back to square one, eyeballed the lineup, and said fuck it I'll make new and better craft if it crashes.  And hey presto it worked.

Spoiler: KSS Fuck This Station (click to show/hide)

The chunk with the umbrellas was the incoming portion, the one on the left the target.  The addition doesn't have a pilot, and Astronaut Ronrim there deserves zero credit after all he did was slowly spin away from me while I did all the work.

You can see the repeated engine section, which was exactly the problem.  The way the RCS nozzles are placed made them almost impossible to adjust.  Translations would pendulum the nose off-axis, and steering corrects would laterally throw the back end.  I had to shut off all the nozzles except the centerline, and even they weren't very cooperative.  Let that be a lesson to check your RCS placement versus your center of mass.  I think an ASAS unit might be a good addition too, to keep the station pointed at one heading while stuff docks with it.

It sure would be helpful if you could switch between craft without having to go to the Orbit map or the Tracking Station.

For an encore, I decided to tackle another Mun attempt.  I'd already made it once with a good design, I just didn't pay attention.  By luck, I got Bill back to do it with again.  Thanks to the maneuver plotter, I had a really cool rendezvous with a yoyo around the Mun to land on the "forward" side with a low angle sun to help my landing bearings.

Spoiler: Kerbin is just over that rise, I swear. (click to show/hide)

Problem was that I used half the lander's fuel and most of the RCS getting there, but once again thanks to the plotter for a really cool deep-space escape plot that got me back to Kerbin with a little fuel.  That I then wasted trying to plan a landing zone, and wound up having to orbit twice to shed enough velocity in the atmosphere to splash down.

Also, an experiment with the lander capsule.  If you have the pilot leave the cabin, then go to first person on the passenger, then hit 'V', you can get this:

Spoiler: Neato. (click to show/hide)

I don't know if it works with other capsules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 09, 2012, 03:54:39 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:37:22 pm
I think an ASAS unit might be a good addition too, to keep the station pointed at one heading while stuff docks with it.


Pretty much a requirement. Infact, you're crazy for having done it without it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 09, 2012, 03:56:11 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:37:22 pm
It sure would be helpful if you could switch between craft without having to go to the Orbit map or the Tracking Station.
[ and ] switch between nearby craft/kerbals. Congratulations on your successful docking and Mun landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:58:56 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 09, 2012, 03:54:39 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:37:22 pm
I think an ASAS unit might be a good addition too, to keep the station pointed at one heading while stuff docks with it.

Pretty much a requirement. Infact, you're crazy for having done it without it :P

At least I can hang my hat on that.  Good to know I was doing it the hard way, because everyone else seemed to nail to a lot quicker.  This does mean that I'll have to Iron Man another docking mission to get the damn thing there, but at least I know what to do now.  Namely, punch the GO button and hope for the best.

And I've got a pretty good idea of what kind of launchers is needed for what size paylod.

Quote from: Leonon on December 09, 2012, 03:56:11 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on December 09, 2012, 03:37:22 pm
It sure would be helpful if you could switch between craft without having to go to the Orbit map or the Tracking Station.
[ and ] switch between nearby craft/kerbals.

Really?  Well whaddaya know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 09, 2012, 05:28:38 pm
Wow, way to make me feel bad Aqizzar. If you're what you call a bad player, I don't think there's a name for me. I am failing miserably at all this.

I also haven't really figured out the manoeuvre planner. Mk1 Eyeball is what I use... not quite the best thing ever ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 09, 2012, 06:29:29 pm
Spoiler: Greetings from the Mun! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2012, 06:32:03 pm
it is easier to dock if you get your docking ports pointing to the normal or antinormal of the orbit so that they don't move around while  you're trying your maneuvers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 09, 2012, 08:15:32 pm
I thought any kind of SAS module on a station made it go wibbly wobbly? Or is that just from having multiple ASAS?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 09, 2012, 08:56:46 pm
My interplanetary commsat is up and orbiting. Yay

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also a view from the first test of my probes which will soon be scattered around Mun

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 09, 2012, 10:33:42 pm
Forsaken: Is that a mod? If so which one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 09, 2012, 10:44:39 pm
http://kerbalspaceport.com/remotetech-3/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 10, 2012, 08:21:27 pm
Major Progress!

The space station was expanded with larger habitat modules and is now capable of supporting many more kerbals.
I wanted to make a heavy lifter that wasn't too close to the usual asparagus heavy-lifter, so I made this monstrosity:
Spoiler: Launch pad (click to show/hide)
The initial stage consists of the big orange tank with 5 LV-T45 (because thrust vectoring is a must) engines and 9 aerospikes. I think. It's aided by three liquid fuel booster rockets with two aerospikes each and their own droptanks supported by girders. And struts. Lots of struts.
Spoiler: Droptanks dropped (click to show/hide)
I love the girders. They're so badass they don't even care if the booster rockets come crashing down on them and explode.
Spoiler: Booster stage (click to show/hide)
The second stage is a booster stage as the nuclear engines themselves are unable to achieve orbit alone with such a heavy payload.
Spoiler: Transfer stage (click to show/hide)
The third stage is the orbit transfer stage. With nuclear engines, we're sure to reach our target destination. The cap is popped and it gets to burn up in the atmosphere (technically collide with the planet).

Then it's just a matter of intercepting, line up and dock. Once docked, the engine decouples and its on-board "AI" deorbits itself. I also launched up a second habitat module for symmetry's sake.
Spoiler: Docking (click to show/hide)
Now the space station has so many parts KSP has to slow down time to prevent physics from committing suicide.

And finally, after gruesome testing, many revisions and hair-pulling moments, the Populator Mk I:
Spoiler: The Populator (click to show/hide)
Okay, that's the alpha version. But the newer version has ladders, RCS and a docking clamp. This SSTO ship has been a real pain to design. Note to self: Fuck the Mk3 Cockpit. It's too heavy, has very bad support for gear placement, its adapters make it too long and places too little mass at the tail and generally screws everything up. Use the Mk2 or Mk1.

Originally planned to transport 7 kerbals up to the space station, it's capability was reduced to 5 to save my sanity. This design went from Populator I-IIi (sic) to Populator Crazy, Populator Sane, Madness and finally Pigs and all their own revisions. The current design was derived from the Pigs series (also somewhat derived from the Skybee IX). Many kerbals were lost in its creation. So many that time slowed down at KSC. It's a wonder why the KSA didn't rescind its funding after so many deaths and catastrophic failures. I bet they won't be writing that in the history books.

In any case, the Populator Mk I achieves orbit around 70-80 km and has barely enough rocket fuel left to reach the space station at 200 km. Timing is of the essence. Flight plan is critical:

In the end, I ended up with 300 total rocket fuel. Orbit correction and transfer took that down to 100.
Spoiler: Docking with the Populator (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 10, 2012, 08:38:37 pm
So why is it that it seems docking is an easy, everyday task for everyone except me? @_@
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 10, 2012, 08:41:26 pm
I have no idea. probably the same way i cant orbit, or go to the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on December 10, 2012, 08:48:07 pm
Docking: right click the target port and set target, right click your own port and 'control from here'.
Enable docking mode in bottom left, spacebar now changed between linear and rotation settings for your RCS thrusters.
Make it so that your navball is set to 'target.' If it's not click the area where it either says 'orbit' or 'surface' until it does.
Make your prograde indicator point towards the purple circle looking thing.
Hit V to set camera to 'chase' mode if it helps

Orbit: Once out of atmosphere, burn prograde (preferably near apoapsis) until periapsis is out of atmosphere.

Go to mun: Plan a maneuver that will preferably burn near your periapsis until you get Mun encounter. Remember you can also shift the position of the maneuver so if you have a burn that reaches Mun's orbit but doesn't intersect, move the maneuver until you get an intersect. Might need to adjust the thrust if your orbit is elliptical.
Keep in mind a maneuver tells you how much Delta-V is needed to perform the maneuver assuming it were possible to accelerate instantaneously. You may need to burn earlier thatn you think. Also watch the blue marker, you'll want to turn so that you're facing it at all times, it might shift to help you compensate for a mistake you've made.

EDIT: Go to Minmus: follow the same procedures in the above, except when you set Minmus as target you will find an ascending and descending node on your orbit. Your goal should be to plan a maneuver at the ascending or decending node and use the purple triangles in the planner to get your inclination as close to Minmus's inclination as possible. Afterwards just follow the steps above.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 10, 2012, 09:22:40 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 10, 2012, 08:38:37 pm
So why is it that it seems docking is an easy, everyday task for everyone except me? @_@

Don't worry, it's not.  It's totally not.

My second docking attempt just took me like an hour of screwing around, after an hour of setting up the orbit.  I barely achieved orbit almost exactly opposite my station with about a third a tank of fuel to maneuver, and figured I'd just leave the vessel in orbit and come back to rescue the crew as another training exercise.  But I did some math (in my head) and realized that I could get to a higher orbit above the target, then wait for them to get close and translate closer planetward to meet it.  This wound up taking about 36 hours in-game, all of my rocket fuel, and four approaches to finally get close enough.

Spoiler: Success. (click to show/hide)

I'm not going to complain about the funky connection on the command segment (I still haven't successfully upgraded from 0.18.0), after I basically docked by knocking into the port at 0.05m/s from a twenty degree angle until I pushed it enough to connect.  But at least now the station doesn't look or handle like a boomerang, and has a native ASAS to keep position for the hopefully easier third dock.

Which is good, because I need to get Rodfrod and Commander Bill back.  He's the only Kerbonaut to survive two missions so far (perished on about five counting the abortive attempts to get this module into space), so while he would make a good resident and I can tell he doesn't want the job.  I'm thinking something with a max-size fuel tank and a cargo pod, as an all-purpose lifter experiment.

Judging by the stuttering I got during the approach, I also think I'm reaching the maximum number of parts my laptop can support.  Not sure what to do about that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 10, 2012, 10:05:19 pm
Operation ComProbe: Send a small satellite (an octagonal control module, four un-cased solar panels, and a stock large antenna) into orbit of every planet and planetoid. Progress of mission: Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus all have satellites around them. A new interplanetary vessel must be designed to make the trip to either Duna or Eve and their moons.

Also, this is my first IPV I have ever designed, even for such a small payload. Any tips would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on December 10, 2012, 10:52:04 pm
Huzza my first mun landing
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I just need to bring up the rest of the crew and equipment.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 10, 2012, 10:55:29 pm
So are the various communication antennae in the new version useful at all, or are they just there to weigh ships down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 10, 2012, 10:57:26 pm
They're useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 10, 2012, 11:03:02 pm
So umm.. I got bored and decided to see how large of a spaceplane I could build and make fly out of vanilla parts.

I give you the Dragonfly Mk I.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Approximately 54 or so engines, ~10,000 units of fuel, 32 air intakes, who knows how many support struts, and one incredibly unlucky Kerbinaut.

However I tried time compression...
The game says it may cause 'some' instability in large craft.
'some'
Spoiler: some... (click to show/hide)

The thing lifted off the ground about 10m from the ocean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 10, 2012, 11:04:08 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 10, 2012, 10:05:19 pm
Operation ComProbe: Send a small satellite (an octagonal control module, four un-cased solar panels, and a stock large antenna) into orbit of every planet and planetoid. Progress of mission: Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus all have satellites around them. A new interplanetary vessel must be designed to make the trip to either Duna or Eve and their moons.

Also, this is my first IPV I have ever designed, even for such a small payload. Any tips would be appreciated.
It really doesn't take much more to send a probe to the nearby planets than it does to get to the Mun or Minmus. I got a probe in orbit around Eve using a simple tiered rocket and an ion engine. The rocket was just one of the small black and white fuel tanks and an LV-T45 engine which split into two using a bi-coupler for the second stage and four for the first stage. Even that was enough to get such a small payload into solar orbit.

The hard part is intercepting the planet. I used the ion engine to match Eve's orbit and used the same method you would use to dock with a station to get into its SOI.
Of course if you're using an Ion engine you'll need a book or something to do while it performs a maneuver. On average my maneuvers took 45 minutes at full thrust. You'll need a bigger rocket if you want to go the slightly more sane route of using a nuclear engine.

Of course this was literally my first and only interplanetary transfer, and I wasn't even intending to get to Eve (I wanted to see if I could crash the probe into the sun but I messed up the launch) so you should probably take my advise with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 10, 2012, 11:19:34 pm
Nogoodnames: With manouver nodes, it is much easier, and I just planted a probe in Duna's orbit. The final powered stage, a nuclear rocket with a small fuel tank is still attached and has fuel to spare.

The biggest problem is getting into orbit with enough fuel for manouvers. Hint to anyone new out there: use the Mun as a slingshot to save fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on December 10, 2012, 11:30:54 pm
The rover landed and loyally went to it's new master.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I forgot to get shots of it in flight, I used the same launch vehicle as I did for the base.  Almost a bit excessive.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the sun sets on the base as it shuts down for the munar night, with it's new rover curled up at it's feet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 11, 2012, 12:02:32 am
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 10, 2012, 11:19:34 pm
Hint to anyone new out there: use the Mun as a slingshot to save fuel.

The problem with this is planning on the location of the Mun.  To anyone who hasn't flown a million missions already, it's basically impossible to guess where the Mun is going to be in relation to the launch center in order to slingshot yourself in the direction you want.

I can't wait for some sort of "pre-launch mission planner" so you can schedule an optimal go time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 11, 2012, 12:30:54 am
I meant from orbit, it saves fuel when escaping Kerbin's SOI, although I guess expierenced players might be able to use it better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 11, 2012, 02:11:43 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on December 11, 2012, 12:02:32 am
The problem with this is planning on the location of the Mun. 

I usually go for a low kerbin orbit, around 100km, then place a maneuver node with AP intersecting the mun, then move the node around until I see a nice slingshot.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 11, 2012, 05:46:50 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 10, 2012, 08:38:37 pm
So why is it that it seems docking is an easy, everyday task for everyone except me? @_@
Well I have this standard procedure I follow. The first step is to hold the launch until the station is roughly 30º-45º ahead of me. After that, launch and get into orbit around 70-100 km. The less eccentric, the better. Set the target and adjust the inclination at the first ascending or descending node with maneuvering nodes to match the target. After that, set up a new maneuvering node and increase the prograde velocity until you have an intersection. Ideally, you want the two intersecting points as close to each other as possible. Then, move around the node until at least one of the points has a separation of at most 2 km.

After that, time your burn. You want to start your burn when the time to reach the node is the same as the burn time, although I typically burn one second earlier to account for the non-instantaneous jerk. Once you're close to the intersect point and the target's speed difference shows up, burn retrograde until the speed difference is 3 m/s or less. The closer the better as this is the orbital height you'll later be working on. Then quickly turn your craft to point to the target and burn until you reach a minimum separation distance at the upcoming intersection. Repeat this process until the separation is at most 0.2 km and the speed difference is less than 3 m/s (or less depending on your RCS configuration), after which you can use RCS to maneuver the craft into dock.

Prior to docking, though, I recommend having the targets docking port point normal or antinormal so its relative position isn't affected by rotation. At least for beginners, it certainly helps.
I tend to eyeball the docking procedure, by using the navball and the docking controls to get a good trajectory until I'm really close and then simply move it into position slowly. When approaching, I limit the speed difference to 0.5 m/s and 0.1-0.2 m/s when docking.

One thing that is important when designing the craft is the placement of RCS thrusters. Improperly placed thrusters will rotate your craft when using the docking controls and makes docking more difficult. Try to predict the mass distribution of the ship and place RCS thrusters where more thrust is needed to stabilize the net torque.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 11, 2012, 06:47:27 am
How do you spin the ship around so fast? >.> Prograde and retrograde are like 180 degrees apart from each other Dx (by definition, but still!)

Also, the docking seems so hard. I always find myself slipping past, unable to line up... though it may be because those tries were with very light ships that bucked with every RCS burst.


Question : it possible to gift KSP? It seems you need to have an account to buy KSP, and nothing else works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 11, 2012, 06:48:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 11, 2012, 06:47:27 am
How do you spin the ship around so fast? >.> Prograde and retrograde are like 180 degrees apart from each other Dx (by definition, but still!)

Also, the docking seems so hard. I always find myself slipping past, unable to line up... though it may be because those tries were with very light ships that bucked with every RCS burst...
Spin faster by adding more RCS. Disable some of the RCS if you need finer control at docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 11, 2012, 07:30:03 am
More specifically, add more RCS thrusters further away from the predicted mass center. It's all about torque.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 11, 2012, 11:51:26 am
Inspired by the last picture in this (http://what-if.xkcd.com/24/) analysis, I'm now wondering if I could use the docking clamp system to get a buggy-delivery of ridiculously large amounts of solid-fuel rockets bristling with attachment points over to some emptier (and launchtower-less) part of the KSC in order to put together a particularly large 'flying'-pancake design.

Not that it would need to be so large, using the standard rocket components, but I still want to do it...


                                                                              A                         
                                                   :H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H:
                                                   :H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H:
                              A                     ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
 __ :H:        __   :H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H:             8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
/__|=H:  ->   /__|: :H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H=H:       ->    8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
o  o ^        o  o   ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^              ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ ß ϑ



(Picture number four in that sequence is an ASCII-art creation best left to the reader's imagination, as (like Fermat) I sadly do not have not enough room... ;))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 11, 2012, 12:31:06 pm
You can copy files from your VAB folder (rocket Vehicle Assembly Building) to your SPH (Space Plane Hanger) folder to be able to launch rockets from the runway. Large flat rockets made of solid boosters used to be great for drag racing to space (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/1197-Challenge-Drag-race-to-100KM-altitude?p=84046&viewfull=1#post84046).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 11, 2012, 12:37:13 pm
Am I the only one who pretty much never uses RCS? For me it's a bit of a leftover from earlier versions where RCS fuel ran out incredibly quickly, and eventually I just gave up and resigned myself to using the tiny amount of rotation that you can get from a command module.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2012, 12:42:51 pm
Nope, I'm not very RCS minded either. Only use it when there's no other way to keep the rocket stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 11, 2012, 12:44:23 pm
Seeing all the confusion still roaming about how to dock, I'm considering a video tutorial on docking.

Would anybody be interested in this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 11, 2012, 12:50:04 pm
Spoiler: FINA FUCKING LEE (click to show/hide)
TIL that you absolutely need an ASAS on every section of the ship that has a command module in it.

I also learned that you ALWAYS check the fuel before undocking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2012, 12:54:53 pm
Why so many struts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 11, 2012, 12:56:40 pm
Because wobbly as fuck.

I made the mainsail engine connected to the big fuel tank with a dock, which means I can use it as a handy tug, but it means the connection is too wobbly for takeoff, so struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 11, 2012, 01:02:57 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2012, 12:54:53 pm
Why so many struts?
Faraday cages have a tendency to provide superb stability, if you don't mind the looks. Although I use a lot more struts (and launch clamps) when using the Mainsail engine and Rockomax tanks as they're so darn unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 11, 2012, 03:41:28 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 11, 2012, 03:38:53 pm
Seems mechjeb can't rendezvous for shit. It says it's aligning the orbits, burns for a few seconds, then says it's done!

Mechjeb isn't as good as it used to be. It could use a few improvements in efficiency, perhaps some preplanning of manuevers, taking into account the centers of mass and thrust sources, which it never did since 0.17... Truth be told, you're better off using its orbit planner creatively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 11, 2012, 03:43:38 pm
I'd love mechjeb if all it did was follow my planned maneuvers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 11, 2012, 03:46:42 pm
I finally decided to work on an interplanetary mission, using docking!

I'll have one ( or 2) engine module with 6 Nuclear engines, one ( or 2, depending on need) fuel module ( an orange tank at most, I guess), a crew module, a power/RCS storage module and if I manage to add it too, a lander!

I still haven't got a launch vehicle able to propel modules to the orbit I wanted to use. Maybe I should use the 80km orbit instead of 150k. it is clean too. but I risk falling into atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 11, 2012, 04:07:14 pm
it is (relatively) easy... assuming that both ships are stable, easy to steer and move, can use RCS for precise acceleration (ideally, you should dock at 0.1 m/s , in the direction of other ship's docking port); if you are familiar and can use well translation RCS commands; if you have quite a bit of patience.
if one of those fails, docking is hard.

( I am assuming you did synchronize orbits first, by killing relative velocity. on a big ship, that can also be quite a problem, since you may not be able to turn quickly during approach)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 11, 2012, 04:28:53 pm
Use the shiny new mode which uses RCS translations only? I forget what it's called, but it's the button between staging and orbits, and it controls like EVA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 11, 2012, 05:00:39 pm
Related: http://what-if.xkcd.com/24/ (http://what-if.xkcd.com/24/)

Damn, already mentioned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 11, 2012, 05:02:05 pm
I have finally figured out how to use atmos engines in a rocket in a stable manner. It wasn't too much of a strutball, either.

900 kilos of fuel to get a 300 ton rocket to ten kilometers, it's downhill from there. Woo!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 11, 2012, 05:40:21 pm
RCS is OP (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_181_Screens/screenshot157.png). In case you can't tell (wouldn't be surprised), that's Moho. First stage was just launch clamps, and what you see in the shot is what traveled all the way. Still got enough to land, too. ^_^

You could do the same thing with a square probe, a battery, two tiny solar panels, a spherical RCS tank, and two quad RCS jets. But a manned mission is more interesting. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 11, 2012, 05:50:09 pm
So what's all the hype about nuclear engines? I'm fearful of trying something other than the regular fuel engines since I got a probe with electric engines but without xenon gas to the moon :\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 11, 2012, 06:12:59 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 11, 2012, 05:50:09 pm
So what's all the hype about nuclear engines? I'm fearful of trying something other than the regular fuel engines since I got a probe with electric engines but without xenon gas to the moon :\

They're very efficient in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 11, 2012, 10:06:58 pm
Just completed my first trip outside the Kerbin's SOI. The planner really helps with interplanetary rendezvous. I only had to minimally adapt my Mun-and-return ship for a one way mission, too.

Spoiler: Greetings from Duna! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 11, 2012, 10:15:13 pm
I decided to stop waiting and just play 0.18.1. I don't care if I'll lose everything in the next day or two. Better than waiting for a month.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 11, 2012, 11:08:31 pm
I swear every launch I send to my Orbital station gets harder and harder to line up.  Not in terms of docking, that's almost easy at this point.  The problem is getting anywhere within sight of the thing.  I just blew threw about two days of in game time, adjusting orbit and watching these dots fly around, before I finally aborted in frustration.

Every single revolution from every approach the craft only near the same orbital angle when they're at their farthest apart point.  How do people plan these rendezvous anyway?

And of course, after learning all the good tips for the docking itself, I had to go and make a robot segment that controls backwards.  Can't let it too easy on me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 12, 2012, 12:00:17 am
What I've been doing, which isn't much, I admit, since I just started, is wait till the markers say I'll be gettng reasonably close, then use the maneuver nodes to adjust it till it's reasonably close.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 12, 2012, 12:12:31 am
Quote from: Japa on December 12, 2012, 12:00:17 am
What I've been doing, which isn't much, I admit, since I just started, is wait till the markers say I'll be gettng reasonably close, then use the maneuver nodes to adjust it till it's reasonably close.

That's about as obvious as saying, "Well clearly you just have to do it right."  I think 90% of the approach is knowing when to launch and what kind of holding orbit to achieve, which I seem to be terrible at judging or consistently aligning.  Then there's the "orbit slightly apart from the target until you're close enough to eyeball it" phase, which seems to conspire against me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on December 12, 2012, 01:29:27 am
A good guide for orbital rendezvous. Only the graphs are really necessary for KSP (http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Rendezvous)

In short: Get to a slightly, say, 50km lower orbit from the target on the same orbital plane, and some 30 degree behind. Then use the maneuver planner. Neutralize relative motion by retrograde thrust FIRST when you get close OR YOU WILL OVERSHOOT, then point toward your target and accelerate, use RCS LIN to keep your motion marker pointed at the target, decelerate again on approach, align, and dock.

That is it, unless we're doing the challenge of docking without maneuver planner or targeting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 12, 2012, 01:34:09 am
That does it, I'm making a video!

Till then:
Wait till the station is about 5 min from passing overhead.
Then launch, get your apoasis to the same height as the space station.

Now when you get to apoasis, are you ahead of the station?
If yes, than get a higher orbit on the other side of Kerth.
If no, make it a lower orbit.
you should see close aproach markers, you can use manoeuvre nodes to see later interceps.
Make a node opposit of the close approach, fiddle with all the settings on the node and watch the separation. at some point you get separation below 50km.

Then you just need to align your speed to the target, and burn towards it, then stop when you start moving away. REPEAT.REPEAT.REPEAT.REPEAT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 12, 2012, 01:44:27 am
I think I can see how a pre-launch planner would be useful.
Another bad thing is that if you put a rocket on the pad and fastforward, it shakes itself to pieces with no chance to wait for time to pass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on December 12, 2012, 01:50:40 am
A direct ascent is not only difficult, but also actually more costly at least according to that Orbiterwiki article.

Just get to a lower orbit, and time accelerate as needed.

Or if you have to, wait in your target craft and switch back at the launch window.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 12, 2012, 02:24:50 am
First of all, be sure orbital planes match up (are or really close). If they don't, the delta-v required makes it worth just launching again. When you've got an orbital plane matching the target, remember the simple rule first derived by Newton: "Equal areas in equal time." Or in layman's terms, the farther away you are, the slower you revolve around the body. The closer you are, the faster you revolve around the body. This also goes for elliptical orbits. If the target is behind you in the orbit, make yours slightly bigger (a short burn in the direction of your velocity), if ahead, make it smaller (a short burn opposite your velocity). If accelerating in the direction opposite the target feels funny to you, welcome to orbital mechanics!

You only need to do these burns once; this will leave you with an elliptical orbit, with one side more or less touching the target's orbit, and the other side below or above the target's orbital altitude. Now, wait a few orbits to catch up or for the target to catch up to you.

When the intersection is close enough, it's time to use the nav-ball at the bottom of the screen. When targeting a craft at close range, it tells you both the position of the craft (pink dot with circle for the craft, pink dot with lines for opposite direction from the craft), your relative velocity to it, and the direction of the relative velocity (the green circle on the navball). First order of business: reduce your relative velocity with the craft. For your first run, if you have enough fuel, reduce the relative velocity to 0, followed by approaching the direction of the craft slowly. If you are experienced or have low fuel, reduce velocity while redirecting it towards the craft. Slow down as your approach the craft; you should be using RCS at this point; so make sure to read the controls for the docking panel (at this point you should also switch from staging to docking mode). Now it's a matter of lining up the ports. Be sure they are very well matched up, then go in to dock at an extremely low velocity. The low velocity is extremely important, as it keeps you from bouncing off, and more importantly, keeps you from imparting much of a spin on the station if you accidentally bump it. A spinning station is damn near impossible to dock with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 12, 2012, 02:46:48 am
Quote from: alway on December 12, 2012, 02:24:50 am
First of all, be sure orbital planes match up (are or really close). If they don't, the delta-v required makes it worth just launching again. When you've got an orbital plane matching the target, remember the simple rule first derived by Newton: "Equal areas in equal time."

Ahem, this is Keplers second law, not Newton(though it can be derived from Newtons laws)

everything else in the post is spot on though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on December 12, 2012, 06:38:22 am
To Dres!!!!!!!!

Picking the most least efficient route possible
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Picking the safest least-lit and most sloped place to land
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Smooth decent to ground level Oh crap, can't rotate ship correctly, too confusing argh...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Welcome to the Dres Permanent Reserch Facility, researching how long 150 charge of electricity can power 1 lightbulb. That stuff in the background, just ignore it. It was, er, there when we got here.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 12, 2012, 10:58:40 am
Kerbal Space Program reports read like NASA press releases from the '90s.

"Oh, er, that space probe? Hey, that wasn't our fault! How were we supposed to know that Europeans have this totally different system of measurements?"
"Yeah Bob, when I found out I was like 'Kila-grams? Mega-meters? What do they even call a quarter pounder over there?'"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on December 12, 2012, 11:13:06 am
A Royale?

("with cheese" optional, although almost always that's 'American Cheese', but then this is one of the times when it's actually a more suitable addition then a nice bit of Camembert, Gouda, Stilton, Feta or Emmental, any of which would usually be my preference.  Or Sage Derby.  Perhaps some Petite Chevre.  And who doesn't like to see a nice display of Danish Blue?)

HTH, HAND.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 12, 2012, 12:43:58 pm
I'm trying to do a wider rocket, but the stupid launch tower keeps getting in the way :( Any tips/ideas?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on December 12, 2012, 12:48:14 pm
I remember there's a mod that removes the launch tower. Check the official forum for that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on December 12, 2012, 01:02:33 pm
There are a couple other tricks:
You can move the rocket sideways in the VAB to place it further from the tower, and you can put the craft file in the SPH folder to launch it from the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 12, 2012, 02:49:24 pm
You can put it on launch clamps and just move it away. Or move it up so that it's over the tower. Or if there's a specific piece hitting the tower deck up top, you can just rotate the ship a little.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 12, 2012, 02:52:48 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/21822-0-17-Multiversal-Mechatronics-LaunchPad-Runway-Obliterator-1-1?highlight=obliterator
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 12, 2012, 03:10:09 pm
Oh my goodness. This helped TONS. I can now have a much more efficient rocket because moar rocketstuffs on the horizontal plane and then... NUCLEAR ENGINES. I can't believe how efficient they are in space. It makes no sense.

Now I get why people can get places and do things. Eesh! I've put a man on the moon, though my design where a manned probe would be dropped off the rocket's tail didn't work. Or rather, the probe keeps getting dropped mid-flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 12, 2012, 03:11:47 pm
Why does the NERVA use oxidizer? It's a thermal engine that has its own uranium fuel and a great deal of water or some other reaction mass. I could see it burning water tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 12, 2012, 03:26:43 pm
magics.

Presumably that's (and probably the engine itself) are placeholders for now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 12, 2012, 03:42:00 pm
Ok, nuclear engines aren't that good. They prove next to no thrust. I am trying to reverse thrust my way into the Mun's orbit... it's not happening :\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 12, 2012, 03:53:23 pm
are you sure they are actually powered, and you have an appropriate number of them?
the thrust they provide isn't that bad. but it is a bit more than 1/4 of a standard 1m rocket engine. ( if I remember numbers correctly).
low, yes, but not quite low enough that I would say they provide no thrust.

it is ion engines that are useless for anything more than slow orbit correction on probes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 12, 2012, 04:14:29 pm
It took me like 2m straight maximum power to get an orbit around Mun... but.......

Here's the Corollary Mk 1 (my ship that gets into orbit is the Theorem Mk 1).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And we made it to the Mun...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And mandatory epic pics!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


And now to fail miserably at getting back to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 12, 2012, 04:27:20 pm
you are using just one nuclear rocket.
to achieve similar thrust to a standard lander rocket, I suggest having 2 engines, on the sides.
also, for long burns, physical warp is your friend (ALT + whatever your keyboard key for time warp is. goes up to 4x)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 12, 2012, 04:35:25 pm
Yeap, failed miserably at meeting the rocket. Poor kerbonaut is now a splot on the ground. Getting closer though!

Yeah, it seems that's all I can get off the ground... part of the problem is me wanting to have a main rocket that drops a smaller landing pod that comes back to the main rocket which then proceeds back to earth.

I wonder if one extra stack of fuel on all my engines would help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on December 12, 2012, 04:46:07 pm
Your main rocket is terrifically inefficient. There's such a thing as too much thrust/acceleration in the lower atmosphere, because of drag losses—you're almost certainly hitting into that with that many Mainsail engines going at once.

My standard lifter rocket is:

Payload

1xRockomax 32 tank, a tricoupler, and three LV-45 rockets

3xRockomax 64 tanks radially coupled, with tricouplers and three LV-30 rockets each

12xRockomax SRBs, four per R64 assembly, radially coupled.

It'll get a payload of about thirty tons into orbit, which is usually the payload and about half a tank left in the Rockomax 32 stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 12, 2012, 04:55:05 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 12, 2012, 04:48:18 pm
I remember reading that provided you kept speed under about 1500 m/s in atmosphere, drag has a minimal effect.

This keeps being brought up, and it's just not true.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 12, 2012, 04:56:36 pm
it depends on craft's drag rating I guess.
1500 m/s in lower atmosphere seems extraordinaryly high.
and I can say that I had some positive results from not going full throttle on some designs ( which had way too many engines)

edit: this thread (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34442-Lower-throttle-at-lower-altitude) just appeared in KSP forum, about thrust at lower altitude

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 12, 2012, 05:38:11 pm
I've started trying to build planes again, after all my previous attempts ended in disaster. Things are going pretty well, I've actually managed to build a few decent planes, like this neat little solar-powered plane:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I'll try sending a probe mission to Eve with a couple robotic versions of them to do aerial reconnaissance.

It was damn annoying getting enough solar panels on it though, why can't I just place them flat along the top of the wings, like I logically should be able to?

I've also discovered that certain parts of the space centre have some immaterial object called "DestructionC..." floating above them. Despite being invisible, this object somehow blocks all light from reaching solar panels under it. Very annoying for solar planes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 12, 2012, 06:56:19 pm
May I present, (drum roll), Mun Base Beta!
Spoiler: Tada! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 12, 2012, 07:13:48 pm
That seems like an awful lot of rocket for one guy.  Maybe I'm just a minimalist or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 12, 2012, 07:54:31 pm
I'm also not a very good rocket designer. That design does work well (though it needs some tweaking) for it's purpose though. Also, on an unrelated note, that happened to land only 23.7 kilometers from Mun Base Alpha, which is a completely different three man lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on December 12, 2012, 10:04:56 pm
Next time I start up KSP I'm going to try and make a large sideways landing base.  Make my future bases on other plants just a wee bit bigger and permanent looking.  Could also make it easier to bring a rover along with the base.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on December 12, 2012, 10:06:41 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 12, 2012, 04:56:36 pm
edit: this thread (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34442-Lower-throttle-at-lower-altitude) just appeared in KSP forum, about thrust at lower altitude

Quote from: That thread
There are lots of calculations available on this board, they were done about half a year ago if i recall. What works for me are the following guidelines:

-Whatever you do, get up to 100m/s as soon as possible
-Aim for 200 m/s between 2000 and 5000m
-At least 300m/s at 10,000m
-Gun it as fast as possible at any altitude over 13,000-15,000m

The gradients in Kerbin's atmosphere are very steep, if you've got a very overpowered rocket (ie. one that will reach 200+m/s before reaching 1500m altitude) you'll be able to get some substantial gains by throttling down, otherwise, it really doesn't matter a lot.

Key bit of 'theory' underpinning this is that you want to divide your losses as equally as possible between 'gravity drag' (time spent cancelling out gravity with your rocket, ie. time spent going 'straight up') and air drag (pushing against thick air, ie going fast at low altitudes).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 12, 2012, 10:19:40 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on December 12, 2012, 05:38:11 pm
I've started trying to build planes again, after all my previous attempts ended in disaster. Things are going pretty well, I've actually managed to build a few decent planes, like this neat little solar-powered plane:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I'll try sending a probe mission to Eve with a couple robotic versions of them to do aerial reconnaissance.

It was damn annoying getting enough solar panels on it though, why can't I just place them flat along the top of the wings, like I logically should be able to?

I've also discovered that certain parts of the space centre have some immaterial object called "DestructionC..." floating above them. Despite being invisible, this object somehow blocks all light from reaching solar panels under it. Very annoying for solar planes.

Turn off the snap to angle mode(default "C") and it should place the panels flush with the wings. You could also try rotating them with QWEASD.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 12, 2012, 10:21:35 pm
Took a couple tries again, but I managed to expand my station once more.

Spoiler: Project Name: Probulator (click to show/hide)

Yeah that's an air intake, I think it looks cool.  And your eyes do not deceive you, it is docked in backwards.  That was pretty much just as tricky to control as I thought it would be, especially after the Near Disaster.

I was making one last orbital control burn with my booster stage when I accidentally decoupled.  The backwardsness wound up saving me because I reversed thrust against it until the booster's fuel exhausted, spinning in place and throwing the left over booster (mostly) away from the station's orbit without losing much position on it.  The booster is still up there with an uncomfortable intercept on the station, but I'm not sure it's really a problem.  Yet.

The tips from the Orbiter wiki were pretty useful for establishing an approach orbit, namely that you want it to be really close to the target's altitude or you'll misjudge the final approach.  My tip for aspiring dockers: Use whatever method necessary to get within sight of your target.  Making sure you have the craft targeted, don't rocket towards the approach reticule.  Rocket like this:

> Purple Directional Marker <
(equidistant space)
> Yellow Intercept Marker <
(equidistant space)
> Actual Direction of Thrust <

This will "push" the intercept towards the target, which you want to be lined up.  When slowing down, do the opposite with the away vectors by swapping the Purple and Yellow markers to "drag" the intercept on target.  And for the love of God, make sure you don't approach the station at more than 10m/s until you're within about 200 meters, then slow the Hell down even more.

Actually I think I just said that backwards.  Like, you need to drag when accelerating and push when decelerating.  Maybe?  I dunno, do your own experiments, it's just rocket science.

Anyway, my Probulator segment is studded with junior docking ports, for tugs, lighters, probes, and etc.  With that in place, my station now has three remaining fullsize ports (I should probably add on another splitter module), three small Rockomax tanks of fuel capacity, seating for seven, and more power and RCS fuel than I'll probably ever need.

My next planned mission is a manned two-part shuttlecraft as a testbed for my tug/lighter design, and as a way to get Ronrim and Commander Bill back home.  They've been there for more than a week now.  Note that the "shuttlecraft" will not be a space plane, as I cannot build a proper plane to save my life, let alone land a plane to save anyone else's.  It'll just be a big "reusable" pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 12, 2012, 11:57:48 pm
The same craft I posted before is now (barely) interplanetary. Needs more parachutes and/or a better final engine.
Spoiler: Eve crash landing (click to show/hide)
That is also my first kerbal on another planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on December 13, 2012, 01:16:23 am
You know what's fun? Salvaging missions that go wrong.

Attempted my first manned Mun landing of 0.18. Also my first use of the 3-crew pod in a lander.

Spoiler: Missing something? (click to show/hide)
A bit of a staging mishap resulted in one of my three transition stage engines... well... exploding.
Thankfully the NERVAs have low enough thrust that the rocket was still stable enough to fly.

It was slow, but I eventually got there safe and sound.

Spoiler: Mun object within (click to show/hide)

The return trip was safe and uneventful. Nearly landed on KSP, was only a few kilometers off.


Though I guess it was pretty mild a disaster.
Once in .17, my lander tipped on Minmus. In my attempts to right it, I broke nearly every engine off. It eventually rested in an inclined position, pointing just above the horizon. I used it as an expensive launch platform to get out of there. Left quite a mess that on Minmus that day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 13, 2012, 03:20:43 am
Quote from: andrea on December 12, 2012, 04:27:20 pm
you are using just one nuclear rocket.
to achieve similar thrust to a standard lander rocket, I suggest having 2 engines, on the sides.
also, for long burns, physical warp is your friend (ALT + whatever your keyboard key for time warp is. goes up to 4x)

WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY EARLIER!!!!!?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 13, 2012, 04:42:20 am
Quote from: ank on December 13, 2012, 03:20:43 am
Quote from: andrea on December 12, 2012, 04:27:20 pm
you are using just one nuclear rocket.
to achieve similar thrust to a standard lander rocket, I suggest having 2 engines, on the sides.
also, for long burns, physical warp is your friend (ALT + whatever your keyboard key for time warp is. goes up to 4x)

WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY EARLIER!!!!!?

Wait, is this anything different from regular warp? Like, the "," and "." keys?


Quote from: Lightning4 on December 13, 2012, 01:16:23 am
You know what's fun? Salvaging missions that go wrong.

Gonna have to start trying that :) Every rocket should have a docking port... then you can always fail at bringing it back to earth, eventually constructing a massive pile of debris or stationary planetary station, heh :D


Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 12, 2012, 11:57:48 pm
The same craft I posted before is now (barely) interplanetary. Needs more parachutes and/or a better final engine.
Spoiler: Eve crash landing (click to show/hide)
That is also my first kerbal on another planet.

Do your guys ever get back? :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 13, 2012, 04:50:33 am
This is weird. I don't know what I did, but when I set a target and I can actually see it, it doesn't have a green marker and the distance. I can actually see the station, but no distance number make approaching impossible Dx
In other news, I have seen an informative video and hopefully will succeed in docking soon! How to get in a near perfectly matching orbit is a question...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 13, 2012, 04:52:52 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 13, 2012, 04:42:20 am
Wait, is this anything different from regular warp? Like, the "," and "." keys?
Yes! it apparently allows physical timewarp in space. That means you can thrust and timewarp at the same time, making NERVA engines a lot less boring.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 13, 2012, 07:43:55 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 13, 2012, 04:50:33 am
This is weird. I don't know what I did, but when I set a target and I can actually see it, it doesn't have a green marker and the distance. I can actually see the station, but no distance number make approaching impossible Dx
Did you hit one of the F keys?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 10:44:55 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 13, 2012, 04:50:33 am
This is weird. I don't know what I did, but when I set a target and I can actually see it, it doesn't have a green marker and the distance. I can actually see the station, but no distance number make approaching impossible Dx
In other news, I have seen an informative video and hopefully will succeed in docking soon! How to get in a near perfectly matching orbit is a question...

Try hitting F4,that should toggle ship markers.

I've been playing with spaceplanes, trying to go as high and as fast as possible.
Spoiler: Faster Richlin! Faster! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on December 13, 2012, 10:45:42 am
This look more like a vacuum cleaner than a plane. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 10:57:21 am
That's a rather apt description actually. You end up needing a lot of intakes to get enough air above 20km. Also, always have an odd number of engines, and put the middle one on last. That way, it will flame-out first, and give you some warning to throttle back. A flat spin is pretty much unrecoverable if you can't stop it by 12km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 13, 2012, 11:06:32 am
I've got an idea for a mod here which just makes a pure-electric turbine. It could use the jet engine models, but it would only require intake air and electricity to run. It would use only a little power, compared to such electricity-guzzling users like Ion drives, and would be much lower thrust than the real jets.

So a solar-powered flyer would be an effective vehichle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 11:21:02 am
Curse you sheb, look what you made me do!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What do you have to say for yourself?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on December 13, 2012, 11:27:18 am
Does it fly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 11:31:42 am
It can leave the ground, but i wouldn't call it flying yet. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 13, 2012, 11:32:51 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 13, 2012, 04:42:20 am
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 12, 2012, 11:57:48 pm
The same craft I posted before is now (barely) interplanetary. Needs more parachutes and/or a better final engine.
Spoiler: Eve crash landing (click to show/hide)
That is also my first kerbal on another planet.

Do your guys ever get back? :)
My missions tend to be to be one way. Also, may I mention that craft crashed because it didn't have enough fuel to slow down. Luckily, Eve has a thick atmoshere and I was only falling at about 50 m/s, and landing gear took the brunt of the impact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 11:34:35 am
Spoiler: WOOT! (click to show/hide)

Just don't take it off ASAS. EVER.




EDIT:
Spoiler: Case in point. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 13, 2012, 11:48:07 am
Ah yes, the air-scoop design. Pretty much all my jets and spaceplanes use it.

Gotta scoop it all up!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 11:51:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See if you can spot the problem!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 13, 2012, 11:52:14 am
Out of fuel? Or air?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 13, 2012, 11:54:00 am
Quote from: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 11:51:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See if you can spot the problem!
I don't see Jeb riding it like a boss, laughing maniacally as he flies it into the control tower...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 13, 2012, 11:54:52 am
I'll go with not enough scoops.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 12:02:13 pm
Neither actually(well, not directly). It likes to pitch unless ASAS is on, and you need to turn ASAS off in order to pitch down and level out for speed building. it decided to pitch down 180 degrees, causing a flame-out, leading to a spin, leading to an engine nacelle breaking off, leading to the closest equivalent of a tantrum spiral I have ever seen outside of DF. Was much fun, and Bill was pulling 4 Gs from the spin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 13, 2012, 12:13:35 pm
What's the mass/lift distribution?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 13, 2012, 12:38:44 pm
Com is about a third of a tank length ahead and a wing thickness above the CoL. Having the 2 engines out on the front wings was the least bad option, as anywhere else would have put their thrust off center. I was actually rather impressed with how it did, it was (barely) controllable until I was up to about 20km. I was expecting it to flip end over end the moment it left the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 13, 2012, 01:22:13 pm
I suppose it's design share time for me again.

Spoiler: I give you this. (click to show/hide)

And now for a question, how do I take this and stick it to my moonbase rocket? Rebuild from scratch?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 13, 2012, 02:03:17 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 13, 2012, 01:22:13 pm
And now for a question, how do I take this and stick it to my moonbase rocket? Rebuild from scratch?
Find the .craft file of your probe (...\Kerbal Space Program\saves\{savegame name}\Ships\SPH) and copy it from the SPH folder to the VAB folder. That should probably work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 13, 2012, 02:12:12 pm
The avionics package is like an ASAS for airplanes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 13, 2012, 04:32:42 pm
im going to try a stock solar rocket.
if i can get KSP not to crash all the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on December 13, 2012, 08:02:28 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 13, 2012, 01:22:13 pm
And now for a question, how do I take this and stick it to my moonbase rocket? Rebuild from scratch?

-> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29950-0-18-Payloader-1-1-A-quick-easy-payload-launcher-utility%21-WIN-LIN-MAC-%21UPDATED%21
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 13, 2012, 09:26:36 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

230 tons of rocket required to put a 15.8 ton station hub into orbit.

But its there! Huzzah!

Next step... a nuclear reactor module.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 13, 2012, 10:19:32 pm
as it turns out a turbojet drag car is not safe but i have found out that you can rocket jump a kerbal a good 8.5km with one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 14, 2012, 12:03:31 am
At long last I have managed to get my two drones and their planetary transfer vehicle into orbit!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So many failures and redesigns with the launch vehicle. Mostly my fault because I was too stubborn to accept the drones having opposing orientations. I should have relized that it's almost impossible to keep a rocket going straight when there are two sets of wings that are trying to push it over. I guess I'll just have to accept one of the drones having inverted controls.
It didn't help that my laptop could only handle the thing at 2 fps.

But it's in orbit now! Yay! Now for the relatively easy challenge of interplanetary travel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 14, 2012, 12:29:26 am
Is this a enough scoops?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 14, 2012, 12:34:11 am
Quote from: Funk on December 14, 2012, 12:29:26 am
Is this a enough scoops?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The efficiency of the scoops is pretty low when they are stacked in front of each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 14, 2012, 01:47:14 am
Am I doin it right?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Protip: don't turn off the SAS. Even thinking about doing so has been shown in studies to cause this craft to crash.

In other news, scoops have very high impact resistance. Further study regarding their use as landing devices for watercraft is advised. Well that didn't work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 14, 2012, 02:27:51 am
Ram intakes work much better at the altitudes that you'd need more than one intake per engine. You can attach them to octagonal struts if you want to put them on radially.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 14, 2012, 05:20:00 am
Luckily, that isn't an issue for this craft. It can't make it above 3000 meters before spinning out and crashing. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 14, 2012, 11:46:15 am
First update on Kerbal 1, the first spaceship that will bring kerbonauts to another planet! and, maybe back to kerbin too. but that is an extra.

as I said earlier in this thread, it is going to be a modular ship, assembled into orbit, and therefore relatively large.
This poses a problem however: strength of docking ports. the spaceship will be very long, and therefore wobbly.
the standard solution could be a tricoupler, but I find that solution unappealing, since it makes building the rockets harder ( I would need a tricoupler on either side, where I would normally place probe and engine)

what could the solution be? well, for example moving docking ports on support beams on the sides.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just docked the first 2 engine stages ( one of which kept part of the last rocket stage, which I will use to refuel any moducle that will not be full at docking).
you can see between the 2 engine stages my first attempt, that comes from necessity of keeping engines clear. it has 3 ports mounted on an L beam. due to difficulty of repeating the design with sufficent accuracy, for the rest of the ship I'll use a new method. beams mounted on radial nacelles/fuel tanks ( depends on how much I can lift). for this first link they are 6, but I am not sure if I should switch to 4 for the rest of the ship. any adviceon that?
either way, this kind of docking allows for a sturdy rocket. and they are not as hard to dock as I feared, I linked engine modules on my first attempt, iwthout any trouble.

by the way, if I slapped a capsule on the engine modules, I am sure I could get to most places in the solar system. but where would the fun be if I didn't overengineer it?

edit: while continuing to use the 6 port docking for the whole ship is heavier, it probably makes aligning ports for docking easier. wasn't a problem this time, but why risk trouble? besides, I have launchers that can handle it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 14, 2012, 02:49:25 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 14, 2012, 12:34:11 am
The efficiency of the scoops is pretty low when they are stacked in front of each other.
in R: thay do in KSP i havent noted any any fall in efficiency, even with ones placed faceing backwads.

im now thinging of just useing small rockets for better thrust to weight ratio
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: The Scout on December 14, 2012, 04:55:14 pm
.16 is all sorts of fucked up. Been flying for 40 minutes, no fuel lost.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on December 14, 2012, 05:04:41 pm
My space station, which is heavily based on the ISS
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hopefully next patch has more optimizations. As it is, the station is just large enough that it makes docking anything else a huge pain. I'd like to add more living hubs to the end, 2 more solar arrays on the left and right, a tower with a solar array on the top (like on the ISS), and a tower with a docking hub so that I don't risk smashing my solar panels while docking and have a place to store my tugs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 14, 2012, 08:28:12 pm
Solar sails. Am I doin it rite?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think it really needs some action grouped engines at the big solar tip to turn. There's certainly space. Otherwise it's almost impossible to aim. The center of mass is just under the attachment of those diagonal ion/battery/xenon stacks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 14, 2012, 09:08:52 pm
I think I've got the hang of docking, now. I'm planning to put a roughly 800 ton ship in Mun orbit, so it's currently orbiting Kerbal and being refueled and stocked with the supplies that make most of its tonnage. It's 644 parts.

Spoiler: Huge ship. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: I think I used too many lights. (click to show/hide)

I need to make a refueler now... Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 14, 2012, 09:11:50 pm
How many lights is that?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 14, 2012, 10:14:27 pm
The launch pad grass has a very high reflectivity. A little bit of light causes it to glow brighter than the sun.

Anyway, I managed to get a dinky little probe into orbit around the Mün, and I'm a bit proud of it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, how did the probe get there? You see, I got this idea to attach small probes to the sides of my Kerbal bearing rockets, allowing me to deploy probes into whatever precarious positions the Kerbals got into. Now, I was making control node corrections to the Mün, and I realized I wouldn't actually get in orbit to properly deploy it. I proceeded to let it go, hoping it would go on an epic journey to other parts of the solar system, since I was in a position where I would of been slingshot out of the system. Later when I checked on it I saw it was being slingshot by the Mün, so I took advantage and used its dinky little ion engine to put it in a pretty nice orbit.

But what happened to the Kerbals? Let us just say they had an unfortunate accident with a big white and gray friend.

Edit: Added picture of probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 14, 2012, 11:42:32 pm
I sent a rocket with 7 probes on it to Mun. After crashing 5 of them to various extents I finally got one down there in one piece.
(http://i.imgur.com/CIDI3s.png) (http://imgur.com/CIDI3.png)
Technically that's my 7th try since I reloaded it once. Two earlier probes landed with all their sensors and batteries but lost their solar panels.

My first permanently functional thing on Mun, I'm so proud.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 14, 2012, 11:49:37 pm
Funny thing, I've never actually landed anything on the Mün.

I almost did it when I deployed the probe, but as I was descending, I realized something.

I didn't know when to start slowing down. I also didn't have much fuel left, so if I started too early they would of died for sure.

Started to slow down too late. At least they died instantly, and not a slow and painful death.

EDIT: I suppose I should of posted this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAcOzYSOk8&list=UU8DIKwGU8wFZfk3Xi3-zcrQ&index=1) earlier, but either way, since alway mentioned intake resistance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 15, 2012, 12:07:40 am
I've currently got an Apollo method mun landing mission touched down on the moon now. Slightly different in that the lander only has one stage, the same engine is used for descent and ascent. Remains to be seen if i've put enough fuel on said engine...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 12:34:31 am
Quote from: BigD145 on December 14, 2012, 09:11:50 pm
How many lights is that?!
I'm pretty sure I used around twenty of them facing in various directions. :P

Refueling and supplying is going well. I managed to dock a fifty ton refueler with the eight hundred ton big ship!

Spoiler: A closer picture of the entire Mun Orbiter ship (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 15, 2012, 09:43:39 am
how do you see how heavy your ship is?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: andrea on December 15, 2012, 09:43:39 am
how do you see how heavy your ship is?
I use Payloader (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29950-0-18-Payloader-1-1-A-quick-easy-payload-launcher-utility%21-WIN-LIN-MAC-%21UPDATED%21) to view my weight. The space station that will go to the Mun weighed about 1014 tons, and the refueler about 54 tons.

Quote from: greatorder on December 15, 2012, 09:44:44 am
Hey, at least you guys can dock!

I STILL overshoot every goddamned attempt!
The only way I can see myself docking is if mechjeb gets updated so the rendezvous setting ACTUALLY works.
I have viewed this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ) by Scott Manley, and it made all the difference between failure and success ;3
Of course, most of the time my rockets ran out of fuel somewhere between ...

Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 15, 2012, 09:49:06 am
Spoiler: "Autopilot" landing the Populator Mk II. (click to show/hide)
Kerbals have been transferred and now the shuttle is sent down.

Spoiler: Spinning RAEG (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, a bug is wreaking havoc with my space plans. >:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 15, 2012, 11:41:35 am
How does a refueller ship work? It carries lots of fuel, docks, then what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 15, 2012, 11:42:43 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 15, 2012, 11:41:35 am
How does a refueller ship work? It carries lots of fuel, docks, then what?
transfers fuel to the docked ship...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 15, 2012, 12:27:48 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics.

Solar panels are beautiful.
I'm still having trouble getting stuff into orbit, having so far only managed a pair of piddly little satellites. How high do you have to be before the nuclear engine is powerful enough to put you into a stable orbit before you hit the ground?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 12:29:28 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!

The biggest issue with panels is that they block each other when built along a spine. Spread them out. Circle the planet with a solar belt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 15, 2012, 12:32:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 12:29:28 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!

The biggest issue with panels is that they block each other when built along a spine. Spread them out. Circle the planet with a solar belt.

*breathes in*

OUR SOLAR PANELS ARE THE PANELS THAT WILL POWER THE HEAVENS!

WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?!?!*


*"Kerbals, obviously!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 15, 2012, 12:43:12 pm
While it is not as fancy ( and probably not as well designed, nor as heavy) as skyrunner's ship, my interplanetary ship Kerbin one continues to be built.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just added a dedicated fuel module which increases capacity to 9000 liquid fuel. it also adds more RCS thrusters, which will be very much needed to spin this thing, and more RCS fuel ( but that will be true of all other modules, since RCS is needed to dock). like RCS, fuel, each new module will most likely add a bit more fuel storage as well.

as time goes on, I find several mistakes in my design, which will be fixed whenever I'll want to build another ship of this size. for example, complete lack of lights. and I should probably have added some more supports.
now I am missing an RCS storage/power module and a crew/communications module module. power module will also likely have docking ports, to allow refueling missions. which is a must if I manage to get it to fly, because I am not going to build more interplanetary ships than strictly needed.

by the way, skyrunner, what kind of engines power your ship?
also, I can't see many docking ports. how big were the modules you sent into orbit? any chance you could show us your launchers?

edit: 2 small notes.
1) I am still surprised by how easy those modules are to dock. much easier than my past ships, in fact. must be better use of docking commands, coupled with lower acceleration thanks to mostly pure RCS thrust and higher mass.

2) I am half worried that the end result will have too many parts and start lagging. still tuns smoothly, but I have much more to add.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 15, 2012, 02:41:36 pm
I like to go for the simple beauty of visual design in my ships.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It may only barely be able to make it to a 100km orbit, it may be hard to steer when gliding, and may be nigh impossible to land without blowing off the center turbojet engine, but damn does this spaceplane look neat. :) Single-stage-to-orbit, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 15, 2012, 03:41:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 12:29:28 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!

The biggest issue with panels is that they block each other when built along a spine. Spread them out. Circle the planet with a solar belt.

I'd genuinely give 20$ to anyone who bothered building a sphere of connected solar panels surrounding Kerbin. I mean, it'd be the biggest waste of time in the century but god damn would it be amazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 15, 2012, 03:44:42 pm
ill do it if you buy me the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 04:10:00 pm
Quote from: bombzero on December 15, 2012, 03:41:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 12:29:28 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!

The biggest issue with panels is that they block each other when built along a spine. Spread them out. Circle the planet with a solar belt.

I'd genuinely give 20$ to anyone who bothered building a sphere of connected solar panels surrounding Kerbin. I mean, it'd be the biggest waste of time in the century but god damn would it be amazing.

$20 for a year of work? Seriously, it'd take that long at the very least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 15, 2012, 04:13:39 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 04:10:00 pm
Quote from: bombzero on December 15, 2012, 03:41:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 15, 2012, 12:29:28 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 09:47:59 am
Quote from: ank on December 15, 2012, 06:41:54 am
Damn you skyrunner!
Now my space station looks like crap!
must... add... wings...
Wings are pretty. It's a proven fact and oh no don't go adding logic to that equation ahhhhhh
Personally the wings make it look cluttered to me.

I like Solar panels better in terms of aesthetics. So what if we need only need 2-3 gigantours to power the station? LET'S ADD TWENTY!

The biggest issue with panels is that they block each other when built along a spine. Spread them out. Circle the planet with a solar belt.

I'd genuinely give 20$ to anyone who bothered building a sphere of connected solar panels surrounding Kerbin. I mean, it'd be the biggest waste of time in the century but god damn would it be amazing.

$20 for a year of work? Seriously, it'd take that long at the very least.
I'd give you $20 to even prove that it can be done. An eighth of a sphere (one quadrant) or a simple ring would  be good enough for me. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 15, 2012, 04:24:03 pm
I believe there's already somebody working on building a connected orbital ring.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 15, 2012, 04:37:01 pm
I can just imagine the lag from the sheer number of parts involved to surround Kerbin with solar panels. There may even be a distance cutoff threshold for physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 15, 2012, 04:45:57 pm
There is, in fact, a distance cutoff threshold for physics, or at least there certainly was recently. It may have been removed/made editable at some point, though. Not sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 15, 2012, 04:51:12 pm
If debris still can't lose speed in atmosphere, then there should be one. We therefore only need to find out how the docking clamps perform at that range, assuming lag is not a factor (futuristic computer from outer space).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 06:39:13 pm
The distance of the sphere in which you can operate I think is around 2500m. It's impossible to build a ring around any planet or moon. That I know for sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 15, 2012, 07:07:11 pm
I just spent quite a few hours trying to dock stuff... no luck so far :(

I can now fairly easily use orbits to get close. I can get within a couple dozen meters. Then... no way. I think the problem is that the port I am trying to dock is at 90 to the cockpit, so all the controls are muffled up. It's this way because I wanted to bring two pieces to orbit with one ship, but next time I try this it's going to be one ship-one part. Eesh.

And yeah, using control from here and selecting the other ship's docking port. I don't think I've got the hang of using the navball to navigate that, especially as the retrograde display keeps jumping everywhere.

Aligning is also a bug pain. I think N/S is the only thing that really works?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: AlStar on December 15, 2012, 07:38:54 pm
While I'm nowhere nearly as advanced as you guys are (your spacestations are pretty;) I've just recently managed to get satellites orbiting Kerbin, the Mun and Minimus; of which I am far more proud then I probably have any right to be.

Minimus was a hoot, because I missed the first time, so I let the clock accelerate for 120 days until the satellites orbit and Minimus happened to converge again.

My goal is to eventually get a satellite in orbit around all the planets and moons, but I think I'll have to start building bigger rockets - I don't think that the small tank of fuel with a single nuke engine and 40 pounds of RCS fuel that my current design can get into orbit will get me far enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 15, 2012, 08:47:54 pm
To be honest, my ultimate goal is to get a space station around Jool. Mainly because of how pretty I find it to be.

However, I can't even land on  the damned Mun, so I doubt I will even reach Jool, let alone Eve or Duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 15, 2012, 09:06:56 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 15, 2012, 08:57:15 pm
sing-rocket' interplanetary craft

I agree, most of us can't make singing rockets either. Unless you count them screaming through the atmosphere towards a firey doom as singing.




I couldn't resist. Kill me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 16, 2012, 12:27:22 am
Quote from: Twi on December 15, 2012, 09:06:56 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 15, 2012, 08:57:15 pm
sing-rocket' interplanetary craft

I agree, most of us can't make singing rockets either. Unless you count them screaming through the atmosphere towards a firey doom as singing.




I couldn't resist. Kill me.

Why wouldn't I consider that singing? It sure is musical.

Also, consider yourself sigged!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 16, 2012, 12:46:40 am
Welp, this Meun mission is a bust, and now I have a probe orbiting the sun hoping to get lucky so it can orbit Duna.

I am either greatest rocket pilot ever or need to be taken out back and shot.

All I know is NASA will never hire me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on December 16, 2012, 12:54:21 am
I just dropped off the command center for what will be my Mun base. I sent the command center and a sky crane separately into orbit around the Mun, rendezvoused the two then landed it next to the Mun base landing beacon. My skycrane is manned, so the plan is that I can send it back into orbit after dropping off it's payload. This way I can send a bunch of base modules into orbit around the Mun, and then retrieve each with the same crane as long as each module brings enough fuel to refill the crane.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In the process of completing this endeavor I did get a smaller manned skycrane that I had used to land the beacon, stranded in orbit around the Mun. I'm using it's rcs thrusters to rendezvous with the discarded interplanetary stages that came with my command module and second skycrane and siphoning off the remaining fuel so that it can be ready to land a new base module.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 01:02:30 am
Quote from: Pyre on December 16, 2012, 12:27:22 am
Quote from: Twi on December 15, 2012, 09:06:56 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 15, 2012, 08:57:15 pm
sing-rocket' interplanetary craft

I agree, most of us can't make singing rockets either. Unless you count them screaming through the atmosphere towards a firey doom as singing.




I couldn't resist. Kill me.

Why wouldn't I consider that singing? It sure is musical.

Also, consider yourself sigged!

O:
...You sigged me.

My life is fulfilled!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 16, 2012, 02:50:27 am
Singing rockets you say. This gives me an idea. A gloorrrrious idea. You see, KSP's sound effects are entirely available in that simple 'sounds' folder.

...

Testing in progress.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 02:58:05 am
Quote from: alway on December 16, 2012, 02:50:27 am
Singing rockets you say. This gives me an idea. A gloorrrrious idea. You see, KSP's sound effects are entirely available in that simple 'sounds' folder.

...

Testing in progress.

...Oh my god. No, wait, you are now my god.
*Bows down to you.*
GLORY TO THE LORD ALWAY!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 16, 2012, 03:44:01 am
This seems even better than I had expected; albeit a much bigger PITA than I had hoped. So, the throttle on throttled engines? Yeah, they change the speed at which the sound is played. So you can slow/low pitch and fast/high pitch the music. :P

Though unfortunately, there's a shit-ton of other noises, which I need to figure out how to tune down a bit.

edit: Hrm, it's actually mostly the wind sound that does it. After leaving atmos, sound quality is perfect.

The Mk1 Rin Engine, powered by the magic of Touhou Music is now operational.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 03:57:20 am
Needs to be up on Youtube or something like right the hell now. And then it needs a sound mixer or something. You had me sold at 'Rin' and 'Touhou music'. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 04:02:23 am
Tell me how! Which file is the rocket sound?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 04:13:05 am
sound_rocket_hard and a bit of sound_rocket_spurts? :P

*Looking at the free version, may not be accurate to 0.18.1 *

If I can get this to work for me,  this shall be the sound of my rocket engines. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpMTS_PM1ws&feature=channel&list=UL) Because as Serenity demonstrated, spaceships should sound like guitars.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 04:18:32 am
I found it in a modding guide. Making a custom part right now :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on December 16, 2012, 07:05:04 am
Splash down on Laythe. First time to Jool too, needs alot of fuel to get there...

Spoiler: On the way. Need plenty of fuel (about 9.5 of the Rockomax x200-32 containers) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The Kraken ate one of the rockets. now 1440 units of fuel is unusable deadweight. Thanks, Kraken (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Nice glow (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Splash down (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 07:52:21 am
Couldn't you have used the fuel transfer ability to make the fuel usable?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 07:56:50 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 07:52:21 am
Couldn't you have used the fuel transfer ability to make the fuel usable?

Yeah, but who remembers to do that? :P

And he got there, didn't he? :3

As a matter of fact, any mission that gets there is necessarily awesome, even if it involves aerobraking through an ocean. Wait, no, ESPECIALLY if it involves aerobraking through an ocean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 16, 2012, 08:38:57 am
I'm still completely failing to land a probe on Eve.

I've been using this calculator (http://ksp.olex.biz/) but I'm finding it nearly impossible to eyeball the ejection angle. Does anyone have any advice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 08:44:59 am
Protractor? XP

Also, get your rocket up with more delta-v (i.e, build a bigger rocket) so you don't have to be as precise. Always helps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 16, 2012, 08:50:09 am
You could use the maneuver nodes. It's easiest to use two or three, one for ejection and one or two for mid-course corrections. You don't even need to be terribly accurate unless you have a very tight delta-v budget.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 16, 2012, 09:08:03 am
Quote from: Twi on December 16, 2012, 08:44:59 am
Protractor? XP

Also, get your rocket up with more delta-v (i.e, build a bigger rocket) so you don't have to be as precise. Always helps.

The problem with using a protractor is that I can't see both the orbital path of the planet and the position of the ship in orbit simultaneously. If I could see them both I'd just eyeball it like I have been the planetary phase angle.

As for using a bigger rocket: Still not sure how to keep them stable.
Spoiler: The current design I'm using (click to show/hide)
I'm using Payloader to put different payloads on top.

Quote from: da_nang on December 16, 2012, 08:50:09 am
You could use the maneuver nodes. It's easiest to use two or three, one for ejection and one or two for mid-course corrections. You don't even need to be terribly accurate unless you have a very tight delta-v budget.
I have been a little but would like to know how to use it more efficiently. Still not sure when it's best to perform the different manoeuvres.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 09:11:28 am
More struts and SAS and other various stability enhancers. Pop on some boosters on the side, or a lower stage, or both.  I hate to say 'add more stuff', but add more stuff. :P

And... that...is a problem. But if I recall correctly, the view doesn't change directions when you switch map size- 'north' is still 'north', right?

And the other benefit of nodes is that if you mess around you see what effect your maneuvers would have before you actually do them. Mess around enough and you'll surely find the right angle eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 16, 2012, 09:19:30 am
Quote from: Vattic on December 16, 2012, 09:08:03 am
Quote from: Twi on December 16, 2012, 08:44:59 am
Protractor? XP

Also, get your rocket up with more delta-v (i.e, build a bigger rocket) so you don't have to be as precise. Always helps.

The problem with using a protractor is that I can't see both the orbital path of the planet and the position of the ship in orbit simultaneously. If I could see them both I'd just eyeball it like I have been the planetary phase angle.

As for using a bigger rocket: Still not sure how to keep them stable.
Spoiler: The current design I'm using (click to show/hide)
I'm using Payloader to put different payloads on top.

Quote from: da_nang on December 16, 2012, 08:50:09 am
You could use the maneuver nodes. It's easiest to use two or three, one for ejection and one or two for mid-course corrections. You don't even need to be terribly accurate unless you have a very tight delta-v budget.
I have been a little but would like to know how to use it more efficiently. Still not sure when it's best to perform the different manoeuvres.

Before the node system I used a physical angle finder on the screen.
I know, pretty low-tech solution.

Now I just guess and used the nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 16, 2012, 09:27:31 am
It sounds like I'm trying to be too exact and overcomplicating things.

Is it worth having both SAS and ASAS at the same time? I notice there are no large SAS modules which is a little annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 09:29:51 am
SAS helps you spin and stop spinning. So it does, but I wosh there was separate buttons for ASAS and SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 09:31:40 am
Yes.
ASAS is nothing but an autopilot, which can be immensely useful...if your ship is at least semi-stable in the first place.

SAS actually makes it more inherently stable.

Having separate buttons would indeed be nice, though.

...Wait, we have ACTION GROUPS now! If you feel like messing with those. I haven't checked, but I'm going to guess you can turn SAS/ASAS on/off that way. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 09:33:49 am
I checked, you can't turn ASAS off or on. Dunno bout SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 09:36:25 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 09:33:49 am
I checked, you can't turn ASAS off or on. Dunno bout SAS.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?

D:

Curse you, reality!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 16, 2012, 09:39:58 am
The way I understood it was that the SAS modules just provided rotational force, reinforcing all your craft movements while the ASAS is an autopilot that uses the SAS and others to keep the craft in the same direction. Hence you can't turn SAS of, but you can turn ASAS off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 09:42:11 am
Problem is that SAS and ASAS are slaved to the same buttons. In reality, you turn them on or off at the same time. And I don't have KSP 0.18.1 on this comp to check what you can do with the action groups.

(Seriously, curse you, reality.)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 16, 2012, 09:49:21 am
SAS appears to be turned on all the time . SAS is just a force multiplier for spaceship movement, just like your command modules and stuff.

That's as far as I know it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 09:55:18 am
Unless I'm derping and missing something terribly:

SAS needs to be toggled on and off. And your command module can cause changes in direction- SAS can only resists them. It's like a gyroscope. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what it is. A gyroscope.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 10:10:39 am
My understanding:

SAS is toggled. It resists movement, especially spin, when on.
ASAS is toggled. It controls  flaps, vectoring engines, and RCS to correct the ship into the direction it was headed when it was toggled on.
Both turn on at the same time o.O

I would absolutely love an SAS-only button. Stations writhe when they have flaps and ASAS on at the same time. Not good. Also, going EVA automatically switches on both ASAS and SAS, causing writhing again. It almost broke my docked ship off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 10:12:08 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 10:10:39 am
My understanding:

SAS is toggled. It resists movement, especially spin, when on.
ASAS is toggled. It controls  flaps, vectoring engines, and RCS when RCS is toggled on to correct the ship into the direction it was headed when it was toggled on.
Both turn on at the same time o.O
Slightly fixed.

Yeah, not the most logical of arrangements. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 10:12:49 am
It still controls RCS when it's off!
It jst has no effect xD

Also, see edit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 10:18:34 am
Ah, yes, I've noticed the EVA-causes-SAS thing. It has greatly annoyed many a youtuber. Me, I haven't gotten that far yet. :P

An SAS-only button would be friggen wonderful.

Or an ASAS-only button, as well, if only for the sake of fairness. Put too many SAS's on a station and it seems to want to wriggle itself to tiny little bits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 10:29:30 am
Oh god, I assumed ASAS was a better version of SAS. I've been putting tons of those on my ship! I guess that might account for some of the difficulty I've been having.......

On the other hand, behold, for great justice!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The mating of the Proposition Mk II and the Theorem Mk II!

Of course, immediately after this I realised I had failed to put any RCS thrusters/fuel and parachutes on the part that's supposed to go back to earth, so of course our brave Kerbonaut took charge of the situation. I could sorta control heading with the main pilot's bay, so I put it in retrograde position, maxed out engines and bailed out.

It took a while to get back to the Orbital Mathematics Research Station, but got back he did. I believe he is now studying the effects of sets of null measure in a vacuum. Hooray, Space Probability Theory!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 16, 2012, 10:47:57 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 10:29:30 am
Oh god, I assumed ASAS was a better version of SAS. I've been putting tons of those on my ship! I guess that might account for some of the difficulty I've been having......

Subsequent ASAS will have no effect -- it's basically a guidance computer, you only need one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 16, 2012, 11:11:50 am
Quote from: Karlito on December 16, 2012, 10:47:57 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 10:29:30 am
Oh god, I assumed ASAS was a better version of SAS. I've been putting tons of those on my ship! I guess that might account for some of the difficulty I've been having......

Subsequent ASAS will have no effect -- it's basically a guidance computer, you only need one.

Will extra ones actively harm? because I need one on the sation as well as the ship itself, and they both come up together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 16, 2012, 11:23:05 am
They won't interfere with each other or anything, as far as I know. I guess the biggest problem is that one of them is just extra weight, but in your case, it's a necessary part of the station payload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 16, 2012, 11:33:58 am
If you're not adverse to modded parts there is a toggle-capable ASAS on the SpacePort (http://kerbalspaceport.com/toggle-capable-asas/). I haven't tried the part but I'd imagine you could use action groups with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 11:37:10 am
RCS/power/docking module added. This ship gets bigger and bigger! ( and now it can turn too. considering the size and lack of SAS, I hope I brought enough fuel)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
now, however, ship begins to lag. not too bad now, but I am afraid it won't handle the command module I originally planned ( 6 tin can pods), plus the launcher.
removing the mainsail engine will help, and so will removing the small solar panels I have on other modules. but not much.

do you think it would be worth sending only a smaller command module? like, 1 tin can and 3 docking ports ( plus communication equipment)?

or should I stubbornly deliver the whole thing, uncaring of the limits of my computer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 16, 2012, 01:00:05 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 10:29:30 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks good for deorbiting space junk.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 01:08:47 pm
Hahaha, thanks. I produce the best looking garbage known to kerb-kind!

I was sort of hoping it was not crash and burn, as those legs were pointing downwards, but once I dropped out of orbit the fuel tanks went first.

I'm actually starting to build very insect-like ships... I need those kinds of structures to keep the pieces that are to be delivered stable on top of the rocket! How do you guys do it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 16, 2012, 01:33:12 pm
Anyone willing to give me a small explanation of how the maneuver tool works. It keeps sending me into ridicously lower orbits
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2012, 01:36:40 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on December 16, 2012, 01:33:12 pm
Anyone willing to give me a small explanation of how the maneuver tool works. It keeps sending me into ridicously lower orbits

What's the maneuver tool?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 16, 2012, 02:04:31 pm
Click on orbit. Add manoever. That thingy

Never mind, got a ship in orbit. More or less. How high does the athmosphere extend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 16, 2012, 02:05:59 pm
In .18 you can click anywhere on your orbit and add a maneuver. This open a tool which has six 'draggers'.

You can drag along each axis, and the tool will show you the orbit that will result from burning in that direction for that long (the longer you drag, the longer te burn)

The tool allows to compose drag along all the possible axis, and will show on the navball the direction your nose should be to align with the resulting burn vector, and a dV indication of how much you should burn

The most important thing to note is that when you use it for sone huge maneuver, like entering in orbit, your resulting burn will be imprecise (the tool assume incalculating the new orbit that the resulting speed change is instantaneous)

To compensate with this, it provides you an estimate of how much the burn will take: to minimize error you should anticipate your burn by half that amount (so if you have to turn engine on for 20s, start them 10s ahead of the maneuvering node)

Both information are show. Below the dV indicator; the estimated burn time however can be deceiving, specially if you dropped a stage and the new stage wasn't activated at full power
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 16, 2012, 02:30:30 pm
So I was admiring the scenery while waiting for my latest failed mission to parachute to the ground, and I found this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyone else seen this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on December 16, 2012, 02:33:38 pm
Yup, it's on a small island off the coast near the Kerbal Space Center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 16, 2012, 02:34:03 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 01, 2012, 07:56:48 pm
Spoiler: Flying, FOR SCIENCE! Also, I spy a runway below (click to show/hide)
Like this one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on December 16, 2012, 02:36:41 pm
andrea, it looks like you're going to Alpha Centauri.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on December 16, 2012, 02:37:17 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 16, 2012, 02:34:03 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 01, 2012, 07:56:48 pm
Spoiler: Flying, FOR SCIENCE! Also, I spy a runway below (click to show/hide)
Like this one?

Yeah, that's the one. Does it do anything, or is it just a scenery easter egg?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 16, 2012, 02:42:03 pm
It's there to provide a target for learning how to make and fly a plane. it's a decent enough distance for somebody to try to fly to and land on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 16, 2012, 03:07:47 pm
I've got a probe being slingshot by Duna.

The same Lunar probe I mentioned earlier from the failed Muen Mission.

If the control nodes hold true, and I have enough patience to deal with a wobbly ion engine.

It might end up orbiting IKE.

PS. I love and hate the new control nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 04:05:23 pm
Quote from: Leonon on December 16, 2012, 02:36:41 pm
andrea, it looks like you're going to Alpha Centauri.

hehe, thank you.
sadly, I don't have enough fuel. in fact, I doubt it can even reach jool and come back if I pack a lander.

on a parallel save, I took the ship as you see it in the last screenshot to Duna in a test flight.
It works fairly well, and lag isn't that much. in fact, it accelerates faster than many of my other ships.
but I severly underestimated DV necessary to go to another planet. even more since I didn't bother checking silly things such as right positions to begin transition, and instead burned all the way.
now, even after dumping one of the engine stages, I am still not sure if I can make it back home.
I might consider dumping the now empty fuel module, but that means undocking and then redocking, since it is in the middle.

overall, I think that with good planning it can reach Duna and come back carrying a landing module.
that should be even less of a problem since I can use the docking ports I added to attach 3 more fuel tanks. big fuel tanks!
and who knows, I could add some more fuel between ship and lander. but I might go over part limit.

It seems that I am carrying WAY more RCS fuel than I need.
I am feeling the need to redesign the whole thing, to work better with less parts, but the thought of docking everything again makes me sick  :(

anyway, pictures!
this is my first flyby to another planet. EVER! not even a probe was sent, and now I boldly go where no kerbal has ever been before, using something that looks like a spaceship! so happy!
I'll be even happier when it is actually completed and does its voyage in the real save.

Spoiler:  burning to Duna (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Ike (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Duna orbit! (click to show/hide)

as you can see, an engine stage was dumped before the slowing down burn to enter Duna orbit ( 2200 DV... luckily 6 nuclear engines still push a lot)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 04:44:20 pm
Yes, refueling ships with tankers is useful. doesn't really help far away missions , but it means, for example, that you can reuse ships.

Congratulations for your mun landing!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 04:48:22 pm
any landing is worth congratulating. even more if it is full of scientific stuff.

besides, that is still a landing more than me, in the new version :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 05:13:36 pm
Well. I have put a craft in Eve's orbit, alright. It didn't have nearly enough thrust to land successfully by my count, so I tried to go for it's moon, and wasted all of my ~3k dV trying to align with it's orbit. :V

Thankfully, that was a probe. Now to go where no kerbal has gone before! To Jool!

how i will land on that is a goddamn mystery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2012, 05:15:16 pm
I've tried, you blow up at -100 meters IIRC.

Anyway, can't you just use a parachute (or a few, depending on your craft's heaviness) to land on eve? Its atmosphere is 5 times as thick as Kerbin's, though IIRC it terminates a bit lower.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 05:28:00 pm
Nope. Periapsis is at ~100km, and I didn't even bring parachutes in the first place.

I'll post the design of my interstellar craft once my internet stops flipping out. Probably tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the collective can point out how ridiculous it is (and it quite is) and offer design advice~ :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 05:28:30 pm
Oh, if you're really good you can 'land' on Jool, apparently.

Jool does a lot of weird things. As a general rule, however, if you go in there fast you die horribly.

Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 05:28:00 pm
Nope. Periapsis is at ~100km, and I didn't even bring parachutes in the first place.

I'll post the design of my interstellar craft once my internet stops flipping out. Probably tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the collective can point out how ridiculous it is (and it quite is) and offer design advice~ :3

:3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 05:52:21 pm
Oh yeah, I think andrea asked how many pieces my big ship is, and why there's no visible docking sections. The answer is that I sent the entire thing into orbit in one big chunk. I'm refueling the engines and stocking the modded orbital warehouse (800 freaking tons of material >.>) right now. Meanwhile, I've sent a mission to the moon. Screenshots soon :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 05:53:12 pm
you sent the whole thing in one chunck?
wow! I must see the launcher.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 05:57:24 pm
It's nothing special. I drew the design from the Jool colony ship someone linked a while ago, which is also where all my wings came from ;3
Four radially attached orange tanks, with one more on each side, and a smaller rockomax at the bottom to absorb the mainsail's heat, sonce orange tanks don't do that. There are twelve mainsails, and the five smaller liquid engines inside the ship complex's casing.
I think some were stacked two or so high.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 16, 2012, 05:58:31 pm
So, I just realised it might be possible to build a walker by making use of custom actions and differently sized landing struts........

Hmmm........
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 06:12:31 pm
Just checked whenever connections would like to stay persistent this time around. They seemingly do.

Behold, the appropriately named SolarBuster mkIII:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I thought it'd be fitting to post the .craft file, but it uses mods (notably these glowing lander-leg things attached to the primary payload) but they're there to make it easier on me, so I think I'll just go ahead and rework it to be fully vanilla and post it for your amusement. Part count is 260, take note of the homebrew asparagus - I didn't really know how to implement it, so I did what I could do best.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 16, 2012, 06:19:29 pm
*gasp*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2012, 06:20:15 pm
Ye gods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 06:22:56 pm
all hail the madness gods, reborn in machine!

seriously? what is that? how well does it fly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 16, 2012, 06:22:56 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 16, 2012, 06:21:50 pm
Oy lord.

How the feck does that thing fly? It looks like ti would spin upside down and out of control within 3 seconds!
Wait, doesn't that count as flying? All of my rockets do that. I thought it was normal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 06:24:09 pm
It's actually surprisingly stable. Mostly due to the thrust pointing inward by default, and the absurd amount of winglets. Activating the RCS before leaving atmosphere is suicide, however. Or deactivating SAS. on second thought, the very little sas the command module provides can be disregarded as long as you pilot it right, but still

In other news, you guys just made me proud of my rocket building skill despite the fact I've yet to create something streamlined and not involving strut overload while going into orbit. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 16, 2012, 06:44:45 pm
So close, but alas, redirecting the failed Munar Probe to Duna was a failure. I knew I should of tried and orbited Minmus.

Picture time!

Spoiler:  First Physical Sighting of Duna and Ike. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  A 'bit' closer to Duna and Ike. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  Slightly closer. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  The closest the probe got to Duna. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  Screen upon Fission Mailure due to running out of Xenon gas. (click to show/hide)

I really need to learn what the hell Delta V and ISP are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2012, 06:47:31 pm
delta v is change in velocity.
ISP is some rocket science thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on December 16, 2012, 06:50:12 pm
Huh. I always though Fission Mailure was an extreme Mission Failure.

Also, I think I'll need a bit more of an explanation to Delta V.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2012, 06:54:06 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on December 16, 2012, 06:50:12 pm
Also, I think I'll need a bit more of an explanation to Delta V.

It's how much you're changing your velocity by. I don't really know what else to say.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 16, 2012, 07:00:17 pm
Delta-V is, as I understand it, a measurement of the difference in velocity between your current velocity and direction and the target velocity and direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2012, 07:02:42 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 16, 2012, 07:00:17 pm
Delta-V is, as I understand it, a measurement of the difference in velocity between your current velocity and direction and the target velocity and direction.
Direction is already part of velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 07:08:18 pm
speed is the number, velocity is the vector I think.

by the way. turns out that by actually using phase angles, I can avoid that lengthy and fuel burning 2200+ Delta-V burn. which means I could bring the test ship back to kerbin! this gives me hope. with the fuel I plan to add, it should comfortably do the trip back and forth. also, in the return trip I'll be able to use spare fuel in the lander...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now, time to finish building. and organize the real mission!

edit: by the way, I am in a circular orbit. quite far, but well within the range in which I can feasibly refuel. therefore, success.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 16, 2012, 07:24:56 pm
Explanation of Delta-V.

"Delta", or 'Δ' in Greek alphabet where it came from, is used in mathematics and especially physics and means "change in"
"Delta-V" with "V" being velocity essentially means "The change in velocity"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2012, 07:29:15 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 16, 2012, 06:24:09 pm
In other news, you guys just made me proud of my rocket building skill despite the fact I've yet to create something streamlined and not involving strut overload while going into orbit. :3
Everyone has struct overload.
It's just how well you hide it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 16, 2012, 07:29:40 pm
since velocity is what matters in orbital mechanics ( and, well, mass of the bodies. but you can't really control that), you often are gives values of velocity change needed for whatever you want to do.

of course different ships will take more or less time and more or less fuel to achieve that change in vellocity. but if you want that new orbit, you still need the same Delta-V

edit: and really, everyone uses tons of struts. half of the parts in my launchers are struts! which may explain why they lag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 17, 2012, 12:35:51 am
My Eve mission went amazingly smooth for something with such a bumpy start. The transit vessel got there with enough fuel left over to establish a nice, circular near-Eve orbit. Here's the photo album:

Spoiler: Breaking off from the transit vehicle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Beginning the de-orbit burn (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sunrise over Eve (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Coming in for a landing (click to show/hide)

It kept gliding for several minutes after that last picture before I was finally able to force it down and apply the brakes. With the drone's ability to basically glide indefinitely in Eve's atmosphere, coupled with the hours of ion thrust available and the second drone still in orbit, I can essentially explore all of Eve if I wanted to. Sadly I forgot to include any scientific instrumentation on the drones, so no useful readings for future manned missions.

Also, first thing landed on an alien planet! Yay!

A tip for anyone who tries something like this in the future: Make sure the net aerial lift on your rocket is zero! It is absolutely horrifying trying to deal with a rocket with unbalanced wings.
The program seems smart enough to figure out the proper control orientation for the craft if you right click the command part select "Control from here" so you don't have to worry about opposing craft having opposite control schemes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2012, 02:18:22 am
Δv is a pure number (scalar) and represent how much change in velocity your craft can do.

when applied to a specific direction, it becomes a maneuver, and the vectorial sum applies between the previous velocity vector and a unity vector pointing in your craft direction multiplied the Δv expended. (approximatively, because it is always assumed infinite impulse)

Spoiler: on wiki about the infinite impulse (click to show/hide)

notice that without staging you can change the dV of a rocket only by augmenting the impulse (higher efficiency engine) or augmenting the fuel fraction (total fuel mass / total craft mass)

i.e. in the asparagus rocket if you actually don't stage from outer to inner even adding another outer layer only marginally change the fuel fraction leaving more or less the same impulse and fraction in proportion to the craft mass, resulting in minimal gain for much more lag
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 17, 2012, 04:16:02 am
Mun mission album!  (http://imgur.com/a/wP5VC)
It has all the descriptions, too.

Learned things: To change a radically different inclination, you need to burn multiple times. Don't try to do it all on one node ! :D
Also, Mun orbits are extremely sensitive to rocket thrust. I almost flung the Lander out of orbit because I accidentally the throttle for only one second.

Seeing that orbiting Mun is extremely easy, I think my huge ship should fly to a different target. The Mun is just anti-climatic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 17, 2012, 04:30:20 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2012, 02:18:22 am
Δv is a pure number (scalar) and represent how much change in velocity your craft can do.

when applied to a specific direction, it becomes a maneuver, and the vectorial sum applies between the previous velocity vector and a unity vector pointing in your craft direction multiplied the Δv expended. (approximatively, because it is always assumed infinite impulse)

We add the vectors right?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "multiplied Δv expended"

Isn't Δv the theoretical velocity you would gain by burning prograde(or loose by burning retrograde).
If you burn perpendicular, you are not really gaining any speed, but you are expending Δv


In most normal sentences(like we have those....) Δv just means POWER! you don't have to think about vectors, just look at it as a number that describes how much you need to burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on December 17, 2012, 06:21:55 am
Quote from: ank on December 17, 2012, 04:30:20 am
If you burn perpendicular, you are not really gaining any speed, but you are expending Δv

I think (my physics is rusty) you would actually gain speed if you burn perpendicular. Actually, if you got your current speed in the original direction (which should remain the same) and your new speed in the perpendicular direction, the new speed at a point in time might be square_root(x*x + y*y), where x and y are your original direction speed, and y is the new (perpendicular) direction speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 17, 2012, 07:06:08 am
You wouldn't gain speed if you burn perpendicular to your velocity vector, as that would just be you turning the vector, not adjusting its length. At least, relative to a body you're orbiting. You would gain speed in any frame of reference where your thrust direction isn't perpendicular to your velocity though, such as if you dropped off a probe and burned perpendicular to your common orbit. And note that you will only not gain velocity if you keep turning to perpendicular as your velocity vector turns - if you burn in one direction, you will only burn perpendicular for the first umpteenth of a second, after which you will slowly gain speed.

(I mean, think about it - gravity is already doing exactly that, pulling you in one direction constantly. If you're on a perfect circular orbit, your speed does not change, but the velocity vector keeps turning because of the force of gravity acting on it in a perpendicular direction.)

edit:

Spoiler: Is it still an SSTO if it docks to interplanetary boosters and flies with them without transferring fuel? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 17, 2012, 12:36:15 pm
Quote from: alexandertnt on December 17, 2012, 06:21:55 am
Quote from: ank on December 17, 2012, 04:30:20 am
If you burn perpendicular, you are not really gaining any speed, but you are expending Δv

I think (my physics is rusty) you would actually gain speed if you burn perpendicular. Actually, if you got your current speed in the original direction (which should remain the same) and your new speed in the perpendicular direction, the new speed at a point in time might be square_root(x*x + y*y), where x and y are your original direction speed, and y is the new (perpendicular) direction speed.

You are correct. The new velocity vector would be each of them added together.
If you apply 1 force unit to each end of a straight angle, (like left and forward) you can calculate the hypotenuse via Pythagoras theorem. If not straight angles you can use sine.
anyways, you'd end up with about 1.4 force units for the combined vector.

But that makes me wonder, in that case do we subtract the first vector from the result vector to get delta-v? that would make sense actually, since delta-v would then be vector applied.




Anyways, back to space stations!
After about 300 explosions i finally did it!
I brought the Circularium into orbit:

What the hell is that!?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You can't possibly means that's a spaceship?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


There's method to the madness:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is the huge central piece to my new space station... it includes 8 NERVA engines.
There is a central square docking port, and 8 square docking ports on the ring.

Now I gotta refuel the thing, and add a bunch of modules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 17, 2012, 12:51:00 pm
Well, there goes my pride at landing something on Minmus without it going up in booms.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on December 17, 2012, 01:18:52 pm
http://kspwiki.nexisonline.net/wiki/Key_Bindings (http://kspwiki.nexisonline.net/wiki/Key_Bindings)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 17, 2012, 01:20:00 pm
You can check the controls from the main menu, but the easiest way to use the RCS is to switch to docking mode, by clicking on the middle of the three icons down by the staging counter. that lets you use WASD, shift, and ctrl, to control the RCS, and space toggles between moving and rotating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 17, 2012, 01:27:13 pm
or press r
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 17, 2012, 01:50:40 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 17, 2012, 01:20:00 pm
You can check the controls from the main menu, but the easiest way to use the RCS is to switch to docking mode, by clicking on the middle of the three icons down by the staging counter. that lets you use WASD, shift, and ctrl, to control the RCS, and space toggles between moving and rotating.

You can't check controls while flying, which is unfortunate. Having a printed keybinding is a good thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 17, 2012, 03:17:02 pm
Holy cow, that's some epic space station :O

It has tons of fuelthingies in the middle, apparently undetachable... still! What are your plans? :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 17, 2012, 05:07:08 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 17, 2012, 03:17:02 pm
Holy cow, that's some epic space station :O

It has tons of fuelthingies in the middle, apparently undetachable... still! What are your plans? :)

This is going to be the main hub and engine of my new moveable space station.

Gonna attach lander modules and habitat and refuel it.
Then, it's off to Jool!
Gonna bring a lander for each moon.

Also, it needs a spaceplane... anybody got a good design that can get to orbit from Laithe? (very simmilar to Kerbin)

Getting it to space was a real hassle, it's the heaviest thing I've ever put into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 17, 2012, 05:12:14 pm
D: That shim is bigger than mine Dx

/me feels puny now xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 17, 2012, 05:27:36 pm
keep always in mind that too many parts cause lag, and lag make it quite hard to actually use your ship.
your stationship seems heavy on structural parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 17, 2012, 05:40:34 pm
now too many parts cause merely slow down (finally) so you can be safe (but bored :P, when one minute launch plays in ten)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 17, 2012, 06:15:06 pm
well, in fact it can be somewhat easier to steer, since you can do more precise RCS burns.(sometimes I wish we had slower speeds as well as faster ones...).
But you will be quite annoyed at how long everything takes, most likely.
Like playing a fortress in DF at 3 FPS. sure, everything still works. sure, you have more time to react to stuff that happens. but brain still implodes.

anyway, I brought command module up. then I discovered that either different symmetry ( 3 instead of 6) or different beams caused it to be unable to dock properly. it would only link one docking port, leaving the other 2 free. which, since command module is the main SAS source, leads to FUN.
back to drawing board... I'll just send it unmanned using the same launcher as all other modules. that should avoid all problems.
it poses a problem for lander however, since I am not sure it will link properly. but that one could simply be done with a tricoupler, if I must.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 17, 2012, 06:37:48 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 17, 2012, 05:12:14 pm
D: That shim is bigger than mine Dx

/me feels puny now xD

Rule #7 of KSP: No matter what you've done or how proud of it you are, someone on the internet has done it better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 17, 2012, 07:16:25 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on December 17, 2012, 06:37:48 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 17, 2012, 05:12:14 pm
D: That shim is bigger than mine Dx

/me feels puny now xD

Rule #1 of Life: No matter what you've done or how proud of it you are, someone on the internet has done it better.
FTFY.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 17, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Finally I caved in and bought this.

Ladies and gents, Jebediah Kerman is the first Kerbal in space, aboard Ikarus I.

Next mission: Deploying satellites!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on December 17, 2012, 11:32:01 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 17, 2012, 03:05:56 pm
Quote from: ank on December 17, 2012, 01:27:13 pm
or press r
*cough*

I was on about using it for vertical and horizontal translation.

IJKL are horizontal and vertical translation, H and N are forward and back translation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 18, 2012, 02:41:49 am
@Skyrunner
I bet this will turn into an arms race when you reveal your next behemoth :)


@Andrea
The station isn't lagging yet, even though it has more parts than some of the laggy space stations I have built.
I think that struts help a lot to reduce lag.


Also, I found an option called "Delta-physics per frame"(or something close to that). it's set to 0.10 sec/frame as default, but can be turned down to 0.03. This is essentially reverse time-warp, allowing you to slow down time instead of getting 1 FPS or the physics going haywire.
If I launch the Circularium at 0.10 sec/frame it pretty much just explodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 18, 2012, 02:59:50 am
Can you get structs to attach on both ends? I think I read somewhere that you can only ever have one parent node for each piece that you put on the craft, which is annoying.

Also, why is it that my translations/rotations/forward/backwards RCS controls always seem completely off? It would help if you could rotate your view along the axis you're looking at.

And congrats BuriBuriZaemon! I am surprised you got something off to space this soon! It took me tons of time back in the day! :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 18, 2012, 03:26:13 am
Quote from: ank on December 18, 2012, 02:41:49 am
@Skyrunner
I bet this will turn into an arms race when you reveal your next behemoth :)

Well, I think my own ship is heavier, at least ;3

Also prettier. /totally not biased

I mean, when fully loaded it weighs a good two thousand tons. xD That doesn't mean I got 2000 tons into orbit in one piece, since a lot of it is loaded afterwards. I'm doing the loading part bit by bit. Only 600 more tons to go :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 18, 2012, 03:56:25 am
@Skyrunner
Yeah, I agree.
The station is made out of:
1 big command pod+RCS+ASAS
1 big fuel tank
8 times 3 long 1m fuel tanks, NERVA, 3 long structurals, 7 short structurals, 3 bicouplers, 4 docking ports.

Mine is still half full of fuel :)

@Anvilfolk
No, the structs only attach at one end.
I made the circle by attaching the other end with a strut.

Use V to get chase mode, that will align the camera to the craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 18, 2012, 08:40:45 am
Here's the result of my attempt to land my boosted SSTO on Duna.

Spoiler: "Well, that went well." (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 18, 2012, 09:01:25 am
You might have more success on Laithe, it has oxygen for the engines.
But nice job getting a SSTO to Duna, did you refuel it in orbit?


News from the circularium:

Lander module added(orbit module included):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 18, 2012, 09:24:55 am
I didn't refuel it so much as I just kinda pushed it there (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg3881938#msg3881938). :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 18, 2012, 09:30:42 am
I think I like that idea. It's like the jumpring in Star Wars! xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 18, 2012, 11:27:17 am
We should make our space stations fight each other!
Dock them face to face, then fire all thrusters until something gives!
The victor is the station with the largest single chunk left  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 18, 2012, 11:35:26 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 18, 2012, 08:40:45 am
Here's the result of my attempt to land my boosted SSTO on Duna.

-- snip --

"Mission control, this is Duna One. Fancy outhouse established. Send rescue. Over."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

God, I love the Kerbal's faces. Looking into the sun with that face while stranded amidst your spaceship's debris on an alien planet is the ultimate pokerface! It also has a little bit of the "I have no idea what I'm doing" in there ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 18, 2012, 04:58:11 pm
does anyone have a compact design for a duna lander?
I am trying to design one, but sadly I can only test it on kerbin, which has more atmosphere and gravity.
with my current , underdeveloped, launcher / lander technology, I would probably have to build a 2 stage lander. which is going to murder my already low frame rate.

of course, I may be seriously overthinking this, and launching from Duna is much easier than from kerbin.
especially since I plan to cover my lander in parachutes, so landing shouldn't take too much fuel.

edit: this is what I hoped to send there. shown after some parachute tests.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
it should land almost full. both because of 4 drogue parachutes and 4 radial ones ( likely to increase to 8 ), and the unseen deorbiting stage, which should be more than able to also slow it down during descent ( rockomax fuel tank plus mainsail). not sure if it can get back to orbit, however.
although I suppose if it can't, it might be a nice base until I can send a better lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 18, 2012, 05:13:02 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 18, 2012, 04:58:11 pm
does anyone have a compact design for a duna lander?
I am trying to design one, but sadly I can only test it on kerbin, which has more atmosphere and gravity.
with my current , underdeveloped, launcher / lander technology, I would probably have to build a 2 stage lander. which is going to murder my already low frame rate.

of course, I may be seriously overthinking this, and launching from Duna is much easier than from kerbin.
especially since I plan to cover my lander in parachutes, so landing shouldn't take too much fuel.

edit: this is what I hoped to send there. shown after some parachute tests.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
it should land almost full. both because of 4 drogue parachutes and 4 radial ones ( likely to increase to 8), and the unseen deorbiting stage, which should be more than able to also slow it down during descent ( rockomax fuel tank plus mainsail). not sure if it can get back to orbit, however.
although I suppose if it can't, it might be a nice base until I can send a better lander.
Hint: Radial engines are your friend here. They're pretty strong, light, and much, much smaller.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 18, 2012, 05:19:27 pm
but radial engines are an advantage only if I save space and weight by only having a central tank, I think... and then I wouldn't be able to use any drogue parachutes. is the saving worth it? ( aerospikes have both more thrust and far higher ISP)
I'll try designing a new launcher/lander with radial engines.

if only it didn't take real life hours to reach duna, It would be far easier to get a working lander :P
at the end, I think, I'll just send a lander and cross fingers. should have deployed a probe when I did the test flight...

edit:Just did a final test, and design posted early can achieve kerbin orbit, with some fuel to spare for orbital interception with mothership :P final design will be slightly heavier, but if it can achieve kerbin orbit it can achieve Duna orbit. time to assemble the last part of the ship! and then add droptanks ( which might or might not actually be dropped. it depends on how hard it is to dock them and therefore my willingness to replace them every time)

edit: and, of course, now I can't build a launcher that works. for some reason, radial decouplers keep failing, making the whole rocket explode.
This despite the new launcher being a copy of the same launcher I used to bring into orbit both lighter and heavier unmanned modules. is having kerbals on the rocket supposed to make the whole thing collapse?
I'll try making a new launcher tomorrow. if it fails, I'll use the unmanned launcher and bring crew later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 19, 2012, 05:14:53 pm
sorry for double post, but I had to say it...
It is complete!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
with bill , bob and jeb. and, well, hudbles. he piloted the arm of the station that hosted the big 3, and I didn't feel like sending him to death on the planet ( being an station module, it lacked parachutes)

sadly, lag is huge. and it started wobbling. partially because command module didn't quite dock correctly, I think.
ports seem docked ( I can undock them and they seem to resist to force, but they are not aligned . I may try redocking). mostly however, it is because this spaceship is more than 70 meters long. which is a lot.

I should have docked some extra fuel tanks, but now I can barely get close. at 200 meters, commands don't work properly.
I'll see if, after the first flight, I can improve it by removing one of the engine modules after it is depleted. and, of course, lander will lose most of its parts.

but most likely after the first mission I am going to rebuild it, more efficent and with less parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 19, 2012, 06:24:38 pm
I've been trying to create an SSTO spaceplane but I seem to have hit a roadblock.

I can get to orbit fine but whenever I go for re-entry, the thing will inevitably go into an uncontrollable roll as soon as it gets down to the thicker parts of the atmosphere. I've tried coming in at a really shallow angle and flying with different wing positions but nothing seems to work.

My little solar-powered drone never ran into this problem when it landed on Eve, despite being much lighter and going through a much thicker atmosphere.

Does anyone know how I can fix this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 19, 2012, 06:40:26 pm
The problem you might have is that while your center of lift is fine when you're full of fuel, it might be in a bad position once you're empty which will send you call kinds of out of control. Your center of lift won't change, but your center of mass will which needs to be somewhat close to the center of lift. I haven't found a good solution to this yet. Part of me wants to try a slightly crazy method of two sets of flying wings, 90 degrees offset from each other, one at the loaded center of mass and the other at the empty center of mass. Fly right side up on the way up, then on the way back down, roll 90 degrees and fly that way on the way back down. Might call it the Flounder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 19, 2012, 07:34:13 pm
Things are starting to take shape...
Spoiler: Still not finished (click to show/hide)

And while designing a rover, I made a boat!
Spoiler: Boat! (click to show/hide)
The Love Boat, coasting the seven seas at 3-5 m/s while the batteries last.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on December 19, 2012, 08:24:39 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on December 19, 2012, 06:24:38 pm
I've been trying to create an SSTO spaceplane but I seem to have hit a roadblock.

I can get to orbit fine but whenever I go for re-entry, the thing will inevitably go into an uncontrollable roll as soon as it gets down to the thicker parts of the atmosphere. I've tried coming in at a really shallow angle and flying with different wing positions but nothing seems to work.

My little solar-powered drone never ran into this problem when it landed on Eve, despite being much lighter and going through a much thicker atmosphere.

Does anyone know how I can fix this?
When you want to re-enter, try putting your remaining fuel ahead of your center of lift. This will shift your center of mass forward(generally seems to be more stable with weight in front of the thrust). Also keep aligned fairly close to your prograde mark once you're in atmos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 19, 2012, 08:45:29 pm
your on a boat!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 19, 2012, 09:38:52 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 19, 2012, 07:34:13 pm
And while designing a rover, I made a boat!
Spoiler: Boat! (click to show/hide)
The Love Boat, coasting the seven seas at 3-5 m/s while the batteries last.

Add solar panels, this is imperative to having a more awesome boat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 19, 2012, 10:08:30 pm
Thanks for the tips, hopefully my next flight will land in one piece. I'll have to remember to account for the weight of the fuel when designing aircraft.

Maybe you could use fuel lines to automatically keep the weight evenly distributed. I think it would work best with three fuel tanks, with the middle pumping into the ends and the back tank pumping into the front. If the middle tank is on the centre of mass then the plane will remain balanced as it empties.

Of course I could also just have the plane refuel in orbit so it has full fuel tanks during re-entry, but that seems wasteful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 19, 2012, 11:25:13 pm
What you need to remember is this funny thing called the "shuttlecock". When flying, it will turn its heavy nose forward, because the lightweight plumage will aerobrake its hind end and turn it around whichever way it is flying. This thing here (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_181_Screens/screenshot204.png) flies like a shuttlecock, because you can see that a lot of its lifting surfaces, and most of its control surfaces, horizontal and vertical, are way in the back.

Also, another thing I have noticed. Despite the shuttlecock design, that craft will try to flat-spin (unless steered) if you prematurely open the forward intakes without firing up the turbojets on reentry. It doesn't have enough vertical stabilizers to keep its heading in check, and uses the two nacelle intakes as airbrakes instead. If the six forward intakes are opened without the engines' thrust to back them up, the increased drag on the nose will try to steer the plane off course. Given that I know how elaborately over-engineered some SSTOs are, intake-wise, make sure all those intakes are closed when you reenter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on December 19, 2012, 11:55:19 pm
You should take your boat to Eve and find out what all the purple oceans are made of.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 20, 2012, 01:29:55 am
It worked! Just a few modifications to the wing structure and a bit of fuel rearrangement and the spaceplane landed without so much as a broken wing!

Spoiler: Mission Accomplished (click to show/hide)

It even landed right at the Space Center without me even meaning to! The ship will stay there forever as a memorial to the Kerbals lost in this endeavor, and to serve as a beacon to guide future pilots home. It sure beats the beacon my first SSTO left.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By some miracle I got it to slow down enough for the pilot to survive. The pilots of my other two previous attempts were not as lucky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 20, 2012, 02:10:04 am
@nogoodgames
Nice SSTO!

@Andrea
I posted it before, but it might have gotten lost:
There is an option under general "max Delta-physics per frame"(or something).
it's at 0.10 per default, meaning it will simulate up to 10 physics ticks per frame.

If you set this to 0.03 instead the lag disappears as time slows down.

The Circularium would be a laggy mess if i hadn't messed with that option.
This is also good for superheavy launches that inexplicitly blows up moments after launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 20, 2012, 08:47:25 am
When is the best time to start speeding up (or slowing down) to hit your maneuver node? If it takes 5 seconds to gain the speed I need should I start 5 seconds before the node?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fishbreath on December 20, 2012, 09:30:05 am
I usually aim to finish half the burn before the node and half the burn after it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 20, 2012, 09:36:14 am
On burns that short, it usually doesn't matter... but on longer burns... at least 30 seconds or so, I just try to split the time and it usually works out okay. If my burn takes one minute, I'll start burning 30 seconds before the node, and continue for 30 seconds after the node. More technically, I believe in some cases you should split it up and weight it a bit so that you burn more on the side of the node that you're moving slower, but unless the burn is extremely long, it shouldn't matter too much and it doesn't apply in every case.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 20, 2012, 05:04:02 pm
What mods do people recommend for version .18?

I have been having fun with the stock parts, but getting some sort of fuel extraction or proper rovers out onto other planets sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 20, 2012, 05:20:24 pm
Spoiler: Getting there... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 20, 2012, 05:34:04 pm
are those... landers?

if so, please post a picture of them landed somewhere(Kerbin will do)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 20, 2012, 06:16:44 pm
Sure thing.

Spoiler: Colonial I and its two probes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The MunRover (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Satellite (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 20, 2012, 08:02:17 pm
that is a great spaceship! post pictures of your first mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SP2 on December 20, 2012, 08:14:59 pm
18.2 patch version has been released. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/426-18-2-Patch-is-out!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 21, 2012, 04:12:04 am
I LOVE the rovers!

also, update!
Quote
- RCS thrusters no longer try (and fail) to do lever arm compensation.

Is this the end to the wobbly problems?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 21, 2012, 05:20:19 am
What is lever arm compensation?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 21, 2012, 05:24:14 am
I think it's what makes wobbly ships wobble when the RCS is turned on with ASAS.

Also, the patcher just crashes for me... anybody got it working?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 21, 2012, 05:34:48 am
Nope, same issue. Server overload perhaps?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 21, 2012, 05:35:20 am
The RCS thrusters used to do several highly different things depending on where they were placed in relation to the craft's center of mass. That's the "lever arm compensation". They tried to exert less force the further out they were (so that the torque would not be excessive), and exert more force the closer they were. But this didn't exactly work, giving us surface-launched interstellar probes on one tank of RCS, and subpar performance of RCS on large craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on December 21, 2012, 07:44:49 am
Nothing like saving a near-disaster of a Mun mission, and setting the lander down on the Mun safely...
Then splattering Jeb all over the Munar surface while on EVA. :(

The lander will now remain for all eternity as a testament to my failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 21, 2012, 10:07:44 am
Ok, i think i found a fix. you just gotta close the patcher window, and the actual patcher will appear!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 21, 2012, 10:21:52 am
When you run the patcher, it shows you a dialog saying it has to update. Click that, it'll close and re-open. then it'll show the dialog box again. Don't click anything, just wait. It'll download the new patcher in the background, not showing a progress bar, and eventually finish. If you click okay, it'll die.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 21, 2012, 10:31:49 am
Their patching service clearly needs more struts!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 21, 2012, 10:46:00 am
Spoiler: Almost finished (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Meanwhile... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 21, 2012, 02:15:55 pm
Nice! What's the purpose of the super-ship/station?

I just got my remote landers to the Mun in the new version. Now working on a space station in Kerbin orbit so that I can create a reusable interplanetary cruiser. The Station will work as both the dockyard for assembling it as well as a refueling station.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 21, 2012, 02:18:07 pm
It's one big space towboat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 21, 2012, 02:37:17 pm
Is it possible to connect to two different docking ports at once?

Also, is there a way to snap the angles when docking, or do I just have to eyeball that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 21, 2012, 04:02:30 pm
Yes, you can and no, there isn't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 21, 2012, 04:21:52 pm
Just to clarify, I mean two pairs.

=||=


=||=


Like this. Will this make a stronger link, or will only one actually connect?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 21, 2012, 04:42:43 pm
I see people using 2's 3's and 4's all the time. Never tried it myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 21, 2012, 05:09:02 pm
yup, i use 4 docking ports on the Circularium, they are not giving much extra stability though :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 21, 2012, 05:37:10 pm
and im still using fueltanks as landing legs...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 21, 2012, 06:03:37 pm
That works. You can even have a tricoupler set full of clamps and it works fine.

Quote from: greatorder on December 21, 2012, 04:45:03 pm
I've never docked myself :I

I docked once. I docked a rover to a stationary lamppost thing and moved it around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 21, 2012, 07:59:12 pm
I am using 6 docking port to link modules in my interplanetary spaceship. the results is that the docking ports wobble very little, making for a good connection.
they are also in a relatively large circle, so that may help.
I suggest always having at least 3 docking ports, not too close to each other. that should give best stability.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 22, 2012, 02:00:54 am
Presenting SpinStation 1, the first space station with artificial gravity!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It comfortably houses 32 kerbals along its outer ring, with space for 6 additional crew members in the two central pods. They'd better have a strong stomach though.

This thing was absolute hell to get up there. It's definitely the heaviest thing I've ever gotten into orbit. It had so many parts at launch that 3 minutes of the first stage lasted half an hour in real time, and that's on my fairly powerful desktop computer.

But it'll all be worth it when I load it up with kerbals and give them the ride of their lives! A shame that rotation is not saved.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on December 22, 2012, 02:49:54 am
You going to do the math and find out what speed to spin it at, or are you just going to wing it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 22, 2012, 03:06:41 am
I wonder if the accelerometer would work for that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 22, 2012, 03:15:10 am
I've got some accelerometers on the engines so they should tell me the force of the artificial gravity. I'm not even sure if the stock parts can take the strain from running this thing at 1g but we'll see. On a few of the failed launches I got it spun up to about 0.05g (hard to tell because numbers kept bouncing around) and the engines flew off, but that was at full throttle. Hopefully a gentle controlled burn can get it going a bit faster without it flying apart.

I still need to get a couple engines docked onto it to get it into a better orbit, and design a ship to populate it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SP2 on December 22, 2012, 07:40:37 am
For the people who can't get the patcher to work, Squad have decided to put a full download up of 18.2 as a .zip file.

Read their blog post here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entry.php/435-18-2-Now-available-as-a-full-zip-download)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 22, 2012, 07:50:20 am
nogoodnames, I love your space station. I also love how you can create artificial gravity that way, even if it is not quite useful for anything at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 22, 2012, 08:55:45 am
Do i just move my save folder from my old install then?
will that break anything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 22, 2012, 09:19:29 am
yes. however, keep in mind that you may have trouble with RCS fuel. both fuel drain and fuel capacity were increased.
but in odler ships RCS fuel tanks will still have the older, smaller, capacity. which may leave you with too little fuel, even for a ship that didn't use any exploit.

For example, the ship I posted earlier in the thread actually seems to turn better with new RCS ( probably due to being very long). however, having 200 units tanks with a system balanced for 700 units tanks leaves me quite short on RCS fuel. I am not sure if I should just replace RCS module , or just design a new ship.

edit: some fuel lines are working oddly however. an engine is drawing from more tanks than it should. if it worked for all engines, wonderful! no more need to transfer fuel during burns. however, as it is now, it is only for one engine.

also, while the ship works fine, I now doubt my lander will be able to redock. it has too little RCS... well, I'll see what I can do. I wish tanks on older ships would upgrade.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 22, 2012, 02:18:17 pm
I test fired the SpinStation and there's a small problem in that the game limits rotation.
Even in space there's a force that counteracts an object's rotation, and it seems to rise exponentially the faster the object is spinning. This means that the engines on the SpinStation will eventually run into a wall where no matter how long they burn, they won't add any more velocity to the station. I can run the engines at, at most, a quarter throttle before they start flying off. This gives a maximum force of around 0.2g, a little bit stronger than the Moon's gravity.

Andrea, you could go into your persistent.sfs file and replace every RCS tank's resource values with the correct numbers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 22, 2012, 02:32:24 pm
How exactly are you measuring the g forces? If it's the gauge next to the nav ball, that'll be measuring the capsule's forces, which will be significantly smaller than out at the arms. If you're doing the calcs by hand, keep in mind that a lot of the stuff in game is scaled down, compared to real life things, so if you're using some real world numbers, things might not be exactly right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 22, 2012, 02:41:25 pm
Each of the arms has an accelerometer on it. The readings get kind of wonky at high speed, but it seems accurate enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 22, 2012, 02:58:10 pm
Ah, duh... I forgot about the new science instruments... :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 22, 2012, 03:25:59 pm
I don't think the accelerometer works like that, you are reading the rotational acceleration relative to the accelerometer.

I think you gotta go to some calculations to find out how fast it has to be spinning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 22, 2012, 05:04:17 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on December 22, 2012, 02:18:17 pm
I test fired the SpinStation and there's a small problem in that the game limits rotation.
Even in space there's a force that counteracts an object's rotation, and it seems to rise exponentially the faster the object is spinning. This means that the engines on the SpinStation will eventually run into a wall where no matter how long they burn, they won't add any more velocity to the station. I can run the engines at, at most, a quarter throttle before they start flying off. This gives a maximum force of around 0.2g, a little bit stronger than the Moon's gravity.
You know what to do. Unleash your inner dwarf and make it bigger.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on December 22, 2012, 11:32:02 pm
My recreation of the Mir space station: http://imgur.com/a/HVK7e
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 23, 2012, 02:29:11 am
Grr. Having a huge amount of trouble trying to actually dock with my space station. I'm just not very good at getting the orbits to line up, and even when I did I couldn't manage to get my ship to properly get to the station. I got within 200 meters, but nothing I did would get me close to it without seriously messing up my relative speed.

Anyone know any really good tutorials or tips for this? I tried watching a set of tutorial videos, but they didn't help much. A lot of what he said was stuff I knew needed to be done, but he didn't really say how to do most of it. Just useless comments like 'line up the orbits' and 'adjust your speed so that you match that of the station'.

Yeah, I know all that. I can't seem to DO it, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on December 23, 2012, 03:23:48 am
Quote from: Thendash on December 22, 2012, 11:32:02 pm
My recreation of the Mir space station: http://imgur.com/a/HVK7e
You've pretty painstakingly recreated that, even to the orbit. I like it. Good work, sir.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 23, 2012, 03:28:39 am
Quote from: Mephansteras on December 23, 2012, 02:29:11 am
Anyone know any really good tutorials or tips for this? I tried watching a set of tutorial videos, but they didn't help much. A lot of what he said was stuff I knew needed to be done, but he didn't really say how to do most of it. Just useless comments like 'line up the orbits' and 'adjust your speed so that you match that of the station'.

Scott Manley's tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ) did wonders for me. It's the one that made me able to dock.

Accelerate towards the station; depending on your ship's size, 1~5 m/s is safe. Faster then that has a high risk of you bumping into your station, or overflinging it. Obsessing over relative speed isn't healthy xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 23, 2012, 07:15:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now there's fuel up there, I can start using it for... fun purposes. I wonder how far my space plane would get me with a full tank.


A slightly related question.

Intake air, and airflow. Intakes have both properties.. Which one is the property that determines if engines flame out?

edit: That was most ridiculously unfun. The design was made with .18.1, playing .18.2, with the RCS changes I ran out of the stuff too quickly, somehow. aswell as that, the craft itself seemed to want to pull left while in the upper atmosphere under rocket flight, causing more RCS to be burnt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 23, 2012, 09:19:49 am
It probably pulled to the left because you repositioned the radial intakes after setting an action group to toggle them off, resulting in one of them not toggling off, and pulling your craft sideways. Or something of the kind.

Airflow is the amount of air passing through the intake. IntakeAir is the resource generated by the intake, which the engine uses. Naturally, the resource is what determines when the engine flames out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 23, 2012, 10:13:52 am
what is the optimal amount of intakes per scram jet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 23, 2012, 11:15:49 am
Depends on the design. For my designs, I've found max 4 per jet engine block to work best for max altitude. I could get more, but the returns diminish due to the design. Plus it's extra weight once your in space.

Other designs have other optima.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 23, 2012, 09:45:59 pm
This is probably ancient news, but has anyone here found the Old Airbase? I took a simple plane for a test flight and spotted it from the air. Dirt runway, traffic control tower, couple of hangers made from corrugated steel. Lots of stuff was non-collideable, allowing me to park the plane in one of the hangers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 23, 2012, 10:22:44 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 23, 2012, 09:19:49 am
It probably pulled to the left because you repositioned the radial intakes after setting an action group to toggle them off, resulting in one of them not toggling off, and pulling your craft sideways. Or something of the kind.

Wasn't that, checked each air intake once I was on orbit, the toggle key was toggling all of them.
Will rebuild it with 18.2 parts and see if it still does it.


Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on December 23, 2012, 09:19:49 am
Airflow is the amount of air passing through the intake. IntakeAir is the resource generated by the intake, which the engine uses. Naturally, the resource is what determines when the engine flames out.

I've had the resource read as zero while the airflow reads as a number, but I guess that's just a result of one type of intake being less efficient or some such.
Either way, ram air intakes are much better than radial intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 24, 2012, 03:56:52 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 23, 2012, 10:22:44 pm
I've had the resource read as zero while the airflow reads as a number, but I guess that's just a result of one type of intake being less efficient or some such.
Either way, ram air intakes are much better than radial intakes.
Resource intake is a function of the airflow speed and the air pressure. Air may be rushing into your intakes at many times the speed of sound, but if you're already skirting the upper edge of the stratosphere, there's just not enough of it for engines to work.

And yes, that they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 24, 2012, 06:58:34 am
I'd just like to mention that KSP is 25% off at the store.
So anybody fooling around with version 0.14 go buy it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 24, 2012, 07:24:37 am
Oh look, gift code feature! I can now give away KSP without having to jump thru hoops.
If they had it on 50%, I would give away two. But sadly nope Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 24, 2012, 08:41:22 am
Also they got rid of the ridiculous patcher. After I got it to work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 24, 2012, 02:24:16 pm
Finally landed on Duna!
and I think I should have enough RCS fuel to go back home, even if tanks are 2/7 of what they should be.
Still, steering this thing is immensely slow and tring, so I think I'll just leave it parked in an high orbit around kerbin, or one of the moons, and build a new one.
which will have better placed SAS, less parts, more thrust and all kinds of improvements..
That is assuming I can bring everything back. lander has its tanks full, because I landed almost entirely with parachutes ,although I made a final push with Nuclear rocket, to avoid bending of the legs. it is odd: during tests on kerbin I landed at much higher speeds, and nothing broke, but on my first attempts nuclear rocket got separated from fuel tank.

I forgot to bring any science instrument, so I discovered almost nothing. I also forgot to bring ladders, but that led to the discovery that jetpacks can lift people on Duna. quite slowly too, which gives better control. great for utility work, such as repacking parachutes. not so great for traveling, unlike on the mun.

Spoiler: mission log (click to show/hide)

Using Ike to slow down is very easy. I didn't even mean to do that, but it just gets in the way sooo often.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 24, 2012, 02:32:37 pm
Nice! I like the characterization of the various kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 24, 2012, 02:40:37 pm
excuse me while i go faint.
from the wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 24, 2012, 03:44:16 pm
So, I have two parts in orbit (the ASAS appears to be broken on one) and I need to dock them, but they are basically on opposite sides of Kerbin, with a 1 m/s difference in speed. Is there a reliable way I can get them closer to dock? I am using MechJeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 24, 2012, 03:45:14 pm
go faster
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 24, 2012, 03:47:34 pm
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on December 24, 2012, 03:44:16 pm
So, I have two parts in orbit (the ASAS appears to be broken on one) and I need to dock them, but they are basically on opposite sides of Kerbin, with a 1 m/s difference in speed. Is there a reliable way I can get them closer to dock? I am using MechJeb.

Shrink the orbit of one by a kilometer or so and it will be traveling the same speed but on a shorter track. They'll overlap eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 24, 2012, 04:07:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 24, 2012, 03:47:34 pm
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on December 24, 2012, 03:44:16 pm
So, I have two parts in orbit (the ASAS appears to be broken on one) and I need to dock them, but they are basically on opposite sides of Kerbin, with a 1 m/s difference in speed. Is there a reliable way I can get them closer to dock? I am using MechJeb.

Shrink the orbit of one by a kilometer or so and it will be traveling the same speed but on a shorter track. They'll overlap eventually.
The lower it is the faster it goes. You can't have both in different altitude circular orbits and both the same speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 24, 2012, 04:27:26 pm
many thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 24, 2012, 04:47:16 pm
Setting up for a new interplanetary mission.

After what must have been a dozen launches (https://dl1.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_182_Screens/screenshot5.png) failing due to design oversights or freak accidents (https://dl1.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_182_Screens/screenshot4.png), interplanetary mothership Celestia's Guidance MkIII is finally in orbit and ready to receive its cargo and fuel for the journey.

Spoiler: The solar panels are purely for style at this point (click to show/hide)
It was named that because it really needs the guidance of a demigod(dess) to lift off without exploding. :P

It has roughly two orange tanks' worth of fuel storage, of which it currently retains about a third. Or maybe a quarter. So after a quick refuelling mission, I'll probably set it up with some landers and probes and send it off to colonize Laythe. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 24, 2012, 04:57:49 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on December 24, 2012, 02:32:37 pm
Nice! I like the characterization of the various kerbals.
Thanks! I always imagined Jeb as being somebody who is reckless, not quite the brightest in the room ( or command pod), but somehow always manages to achieve success. or at least enough success to tell the tale later.
Bill and Bob never had any definite personality in my mind, but I think I'll keep Bill the engineer and Bob the navigator for future tales.

Quote from: Aseaheru on December 24, 2012, 02:40:37 pm
excuse me while i go faint.
from the wow.
If the awe is caused by my spaceship I am flattered, but it is probably undeserved. While it does look cool, sadly looking cool is the only thing it does right. it steers like a whale on land. it only has enough fuel to bring a relatively light payload to Duna. it might be able to reach Eve, but I am fairly sure that Jool is out of its reach ( unless I replace lander with fuel).Which for a ship of this size isn't much at all. It took 6 launches to bring everything into orbit, plus another to bring the 3 additional fuel tanks. Also, it has a too high parts to usefulness ratio. even at 0.03 delta-time per physics frame or whatever it lags when I fire the engines.
Overall, a good learning experience and it landed my first kerbals on another planet, but at  most a passable spaceship.

pre-edit: Sean's ships are usually very much praise-worthy. simple, efficent and elegant. post above is a good example.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 24, 2012, 06:40:48 pm
You have way, way, way, to many nuclear thermal engines on your rocket, which is the reason its not efficient. once you are in space, time is not critical. One burning 6 times as long will do the same work as 6 burning for a certain time. Except when you have 6, that's an extra 12.5 tonnes of mass. 2-3 max is all you should have, even with a huge huge ship.

I think i'm going to make some kind of interplanetary ship like that now though. looks fun.

edit: here's the SSTO i plan to take to laythe
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 24, 2012, 07:34:06 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 24, 2012, 06:40:48 pm
once you are in space, time is not critical.

for kerbals, maybe not. but it is booooring! 5-10 minute burns already feel long. my solution to fuel inefficency is to bring more fuel. I am still quite far from the point in which more fuel reduces Delta-V.
although I guess I will sorely regret that when I have to refuel. But by that point I'll probably have new ideas for a new spaceship.
Also, 12.5 tons of mass doesn't seem that much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 24, 2012, 08:06:57 pm
My ship is too heavy. It has a couple hundred tons of weight and only five nuke engines Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 01:20:06 am
I can't seem to get my satellite core into orbit >_>

No pics because KSP is on a different computer, but the core itself is an unmanned command module, a large tank of RCS fuel, ASAS, one of those hitchhiker modules, two solar panels, batteries, a half-sized fuel tank, one of those multi-directional docking ports, and a poodle(?) engine. Tests with just the core have shown that it can get off the ground on it's own and get to a respectable height before running out of fuel.

Problems arise, however, when I attempt to attach it to a larger rocket. I have previously managed to get debris and a manned return vehicle in a stable orbit with just a single Mainsail engine and no RCS needed. Now, however, I struggle to get the core up even to 80km. I have to turn RCS on in conjunction with the ASAS just to keep the craft stable, and the core itself needs to burn all onboard fuel just getting a periapsis of 20km or so. And yes, I am attempting gravity turns and such, though I often lose control.

I haven't even attempted docking yet. I can launch simple rockets into orbit or even to Mun all day long, but it seems like every attempt to launch a satellite or something is doomed to failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 25, 2012, 01:37:25 am
Then ... you need more engines. More engines call for more fuel ...
Do you have structs making sure the satellite module doesn't sway when launching? Do you have control surfaces or canards to aid the ASAS in aiming your ship? Thrust vectoring is very wobbly in earth atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 01:46:16 am
I'm experimenting with engines...unsuccessfully so far.

Yes and yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 25, 2012, 01:48:55 am
The obvious answer is "use more engines", then. My workhorse launcher uses 12 Mainsail engines that are crossfed so that they shed 8 of them in orbit. It can pretty much launch anything into orbit, though going anywhere else is a bit hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 25, 2012, 01:58:08 am
Scrap the poodle engine and replace it with one of the smaller once. same thrust, less weight.

Also consider scrapping the mainsail's and replacing them with multiple engines per tank, i've heard that that is rather more stable. you use the small struts on the bottom to act as attachment points for the engines.

edit: also, i just discovered you can click and drag the manevour node point along your orbit. Very handy for lining up intercepts. get close, then drag it until it becomes zero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on December 25, 2012, 02:13:09 am
also, if you have radial engines that use mainsails, lock the radial engines' gimbals since mainsails ARE unstable unless they are directly underneath the center of mass. I use an asparagus design with 4 mainsails on the center and 6 radials each with only one.

Just got my first docking completed! My RCS fuel fell off for some reason halfway through the gravity turn so I had to do it all with just the radial engines (6x small and 1x large radial per fuel tank) and managed to get docked by very very slowly lining up and pulsing towards the station hub :) Now, I have to get the lander back to kerbin since it has a large enough footprint to make docking anything else pretty useless hehe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 25, 2012, 02:35:02 am
I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 25, 2012, 02:39:12 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 25, 2012, 02:35:02 am
I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.

Actually, no, the mainsails and the smaller engines have the same thrust/weight ratio.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 25, 2012, 02:54:08 am
My Jool mission is slowly getting together

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fuel tanks are added, space plane is docked. I need to add a lander, send up 2 flights of crew, and attach some probes to the small docking ports. (i'm thinking... one to send into jool proper, and one to detach halfway there and try to do a gravity assist of jool to head to the outer system). And of course fill what's there with fuel.

Unfortunately, i've run into some issues due to the fact that i had the brilliant idea to add a gazillion ladders to the craft. Looks good... lags bad. The lag in turn makes the SAS and RCS not work, blowing all the RCS fuel rather quickly, which is bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 25, 2012, 02:55:12 am
Quote from: Japa on December 25, 2012, 02:39:12 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 25, 2012, 02:35:02 am
I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.

Actually, no, the mainsails and the smaller engines have the same thrust/weight ratio.
How so? The Mainsail is the lifting engine, its ridiculous TWR is its entire purpose in existence. Regular engines give you, on average, 200KN thrust for 1.25 tons of mass, for a total TWR of around 16.3. The Mainsail gives you 1500KN thrust for 6 tons of mass, for a TWR of 25.5, and that's not taking mounting space into account, because you can't fit an equivalent amount of smaller engines in the same space a Mainsail occupies.

Now, a cluster of smaller engines is more efficient, that's true, but unless you literally cover the whole underside of your rocket with engines, you will end up losing fuel to fighting gravity on the way up, because you'll accelerate too slow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 25, 2012, 05:21:57 am
Holy shit do you run out of mono fuel fast in the latest version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 25, 2012, 05:26:55 am
keep in mind that any design that was launched before upgrade still has the old capacity of RCS fuel tanks. But the system is balanced for newfuel tanks which are much bigger.if you are resuming a fight from an old version, you will run out much earlier than you should.
that said, it does drain much faster.

@sneakey pete
such a pity that your design lags due to lag :/ next time , you could try using some of those long ladders instead.
Meanwhile, you could try lowering your physics delta time per frame. I think that slows everything down, but reduces lag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 25, 2012, 06:44:23 am
well, I dumped my interplanetary transfer ship into the ocean, time to start again. Savings all my designs really pays off.

edit: and about 167 ladders and a few other unnecessary parts gone. Meaning the core is down to 104 parts from 271. should make physics nicer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 25, 2012, 08:43:58 am
In order to bring fuel and lander/science modules up to Celestia's Guidance in orbit, a heavy lifting vehicle, Luna's Splendour, is being designed.

Spoiler: Yes, it's ridiculous (click to show/hide)
I still can't believe this thing makes it off the launchpad. It made it into orbit a total of one time, without payload. Right now I'm solving some structural failure issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 11:09:49 am
Quote from: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 01:20:06 am
I can't seem to get my satellite core into orbit >_>

No pics because KSP is on a different computer, but the core itself is an unmanned command module, a large tank of RCS fuel, ASAS, one of those hitchhiker modules, two solar panels, batteries, a half-sized fuel tank, one of those multi-directional docking ports, and a poodle(?) engine. Tests with just the core have shown that it can get off the ground on it's own and get to a respectable height before running out of fuel.

Problems arise, however, when I attempt to attach it to a larger rocket. I have previously managed to get debris and a manned return vehicle in a stable orbit with just a single Mainsail engine and no RCS needed. Now, however, I struggle to get the core up even to 80km. I have to turn RCS on in conjunction with the ASAS just to keep the craft stable, and the core itself needs to burn all onboard fuel just getting a periapsis of 20km or so. And yes, I am attempting gravity turns and such, though I often lose control.

I haven't even attempted docking yet. I can launch simple rockets into orbit or even to Mun all day long, but it seems like every attempt to launch a satellite or something is doomed to failure.

First of all I always break my ships down into payload, orbit, lifter, and booster stages.

Lets say you want to drop your payload in a 120km circular orbit,  the combined forces of the booster, lifter and orbit stages would have to get you to 120km going 2214m/s. Let's just say, for the sake of simplicity, that your orbit stage can only give you 214m/s and 20km. That means your lifter and bosster stages have to give you 100km and 2000 m/s. If your lifter stage only provies 50km and 1000m/s your boster stage has to provide the same. Obviously an over simplication, but I think it helps to visualize. Your can't use any of your orbit fuel unit you reach X altitude and X speed. The whole point of the lifter and booster is to get you to that X altitude and X speed.

In your case the payload stage and orbit stage are kind of the same, since you won't be disconnecting your engine from the payload. Anyways, on to the example.

Spoiler: Example, with pictures! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 25, 2012, 12:33:32 pm
Hint: use jet engines to get into the upper atmosphere before beginning to use liquid engines higher up. It really helps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 02:10:19 pm
I kinda glazed over most of that explanation (especially since I have no desire to use MechJeb and basically just wing my flights) -- but what is the point of the yellow multi point connecter if you can't dock with it?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 02:14:17 pm
Quote from: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 02:10:19 pm
I kinda glazed over most of that explanation (especially since I have no desire to use MechJeb and basically just wing my flights) -- but what is the point of the yellow multi point connecter if you can't dock with it?!

Wow. Why bother asking a question if you completely ignore the answer? I only used MechJeb to show thrust to weight. There are a lot of features that Mechjeb provides that don't involve it flying for you.

Hopefully that helped someone, because I put some time into.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 02:24:49 pm
No need to be pissy <_<;

I'm not even on a computer that can run KSP right now. I'll have to have your post up in front of me for reference, so I'm skim-reading.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2012, 03:02:40 pm
Quote from: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 02:14:17 pm
Quote from: Sirus on December 25, 2012, 02:10:19 pm
I kinda glazed over most of that explanation (especially since I have no desire to use MechJeb and basically just wing my flights) -- but what is the point of the yellow multi point connecter if you can't dock with it?!

Wow. Why bother asking a question if you completely ignore the answer? I only used MechJeb to show thrust to weight. There are a lot of features that Mechjeb provides that don't involve it flying for you.

Hopefully that helped someone, because I put some time into.
I read it and found it helpful. it changed the way I do my rocket planning. Thanks for the write-up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on December 25, 2012, 03:22:37 pm
So... to make sure that I have understood this:

* TWR needs to stay above 1.0 to get liftoff
* TWR = Thrust / Weight; Is this as kN / Tons?
* Are all of the weights for parts given in tons? So a 1 unit weight = 1 Ton?

If that is all correct then I should be able to make more efficient rockets :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 25, 2012, 03:23:21 pm
I think it's more likely to accelerate at higher altitudes due to lower air density so you should switch when the air intake approaches critical levels.

EDIT:
Quote from: GalenEvil on December 25, 2012, 03:22:37 pm
So... to make sure that I have understood this:

* TWR needs to stay above 1.0 to get liftoff
* TWR = Thrust / Weight; Is this as kN / Tons?
* Are all of the weights for parts given in tons? So a 1 unit weight = 1 Ton?

If that is all correct then I should be able to make more efficient rockets :D
*Yes, that's plain old Newton's second law with zero drag.
*My physics teacher would have you beheaded for mixing Newtons with tons :P The thrust given by the engines are in Newton and the mass is in tons IIRC so if you multiply it by 10 (really 9.81 but dividing by 10 is a good worst-case) you get the right numerical value for the weight.
*They should be in tons IIRC. But Ton != Newton
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 25, 2012, 03:26:58 pm
Quote from: GalenEvil on December 25, 2012, 03:22:37 pm
So... to make sure that I have understood this:

* TWR needs to stay above 1.0 to get liftoff
* TWR = Thrust / Weight; Is this as kN / Tons?
* Are all of the weights for parts given in tons? So a 1 unit weight = 1 Ton?

If that is all correct then I should be able to make more efficient rockets :D

Yes, sort of and no.

A TWR of 1 is just enough to balance out your rocket against gravity, and any higher will send you going up.

Weight is measured in Newtons and Kilonewtons, not Kilograms and Tons.

The weight units are given in Kilonewtons, which at sea level on Kerbin is around ten times the mass (tons/kilograms)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on December 25, 2012, 03:50:21 pm
Okay, I was 'almost' right, so I don't feel horrible :D Thanks for clearing that up for me
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 25, 2012, 05:12:59 pm
for shear Thrust-to-weight ratio the tiny Rockomax 24-77 is nearly as good as the main sail, and is a lot easier to mount (it need to be as it will take 75 of them to mach 1 main sail)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 25, 2012, 09:21:11 pm
Quote from: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 02:14:17 pm
Hopefully that helped someone, because I put some time into.
Helped me too, cheers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 10:58:58 pm
I honestly couldn't even guess the TWR of things in game without MechJeb. As far as I remember KSP only shows Mass. But like I said, if you don't want to use that you can always experimient with tall rockets and single engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 26, 2012, 01:40:38 am
A lot of it for me is intuition and a good understanding of physics. that and just building stuff and seeing if it works.

edit: I found out the issue with the weird off balanceness of my space plane. For whatever reason, 18.2 makes the fuel lines that are symmetry attached draw fuel from one tank first then the other. Result was one heck of an unbalanced space plane, when i had one almost full tank of fuel on one side and an empty one on the other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 26, 2012, 03:03:51 am
Quote from: Fikes on December 25, 2012, 10:58:58 pm
I honestly couldn't even guess the TWR of things in game without MechJeb. As far as I remember KSP only shows Mass. But like I said, if you don't want to use that you can always experimient with tall rockets and single engines.
Max Available payload mass = 0.1*Net Thrust of all engines - Net mass of engines

I always use this simple formula to help me design, where payload mass is the whole rocket's mass without the engines. Still doesn't account for drag, but that makes it more complicated.
E.g. a single LV-T45 engine gives you 0.1*200 - 1.5 = 19.5 (tons) of available mass. Any more than that and your TWR will be less than 1 (not really since we divided by 10 and not 9.81 but it's better to be safe). Of course, you want to aim a little bit less than 19.5 or it's going to take a long time to accelerate up to high velocities. In this case, it's roughly four FL-T800 tanks and a Mk1 command pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 26, 2012, 08:17:45 am
alright first rocket in 0.18.2 was supposed to take me to orbit, it took me to eve rather well

do you know the feeling you get when you've been sitting there doing manuevers for twenty minutes and then the split second you look away to check where exactly you've landed your ship notices you're on sloped land, tips over and explodes

going to need lander legs for once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 26, 2012, 09:49:26 am
This is a stupid question, but can someone upload MechJeb version 1.9.6 to a file-sharing website, so I can download it?
KSP official website, KSP Spaceport and official forums are off-line (at least for me). Found it elsewhere, never mind. KSP official website is still down, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GodlyTeapot on December 26, 2012, 10:11:12 pm
Well I landed on the Mun today.


I am pretty damn proud of that. I know it's not much compared to what most of you guys do, but you've gotta start somewhere right? Minmus is next in my sights, any advice? What's the gravity there like? Shall I tell Jeb to pack more or less landing fuel? I mean, I know he won't listen, but I feel I should tell him to do SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 26, 2012, 10:13:49 pm
Gravity is quite a bit less, IIRC, so you won't need as much fuel to slow down/take off again. If you want an easy-ish landing, aim for the blue areas of Minmus; it's basically a frozen ocean, and thus very flat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GodlyTeapot on December 26, 2012, 10:19:57 pm
Quote from: greatorder on December 26, 2012, 10:12:48 pm
Well, you're doing as well as me. I've accomplished unassisted (by mechjeb, that is) mun landings, and one accidental slingshot out of the kerbol system.

I had to start a new save since I had so much junk orbiting the Sun :P

Quote from: Sirus on December 26, 2012, 10:13:49 pm
Gravity is quite a bit less, IIRC, so you won't need as much fuel to slow down/take off again. If you want an easy-ish landing, aim for the blue areas of Minmus; it's basically a frozen ocean, and thus very flat.

Thanks, this is all really good to know, though I do feel it isn't quite in the spirit of the game to KNOW what you're flying yourself into. I'm glad it's flat though, I find landing to be rather tricky, I get the feeling that there is a knack to this game, much like Dwarf Fortress. Ah well, let the !!FUN!! commence!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on December 26, 2012, 10:25:03 pm
Well, in real life we can tell quite a lot about other planets through observation and probes. Just pretend that you scientists gave you the intel :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GodlyTeapot on December 26, 2012, 10:30:51 pm
"Sir we asked our top scientists to investigate Minmus' surface to find any information that will help with the landing."
"What did they say they found?"
"The surface is purple, and they believe it may have water on it."
"Why do they think that?"
"Some of the surface is blue sir."
"Excellent! I don't know how our boys do it...But they do. FIRE THE ROCKET!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 27, 2012, 04:31:11 am
This if the fuel hub for my space station, the actual part holds over 10k fuel with matching oxidizer.
(http://i.imgur.com/WF2xH.jpg)
For scale, that's the 3 man command module up there on top, without the tower removing mod this couldn't fit on the pad.
The reason for the overkill first stage (all of the outermost fuel tanks are attached to the first stage, not the others) is, well, look at the mass.

Gonna be letting MechJeb take this one into orbit, I lack the reasonable piloting skill to do a gravity burn that won't lead me burning up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragonshardz on December 27, 2012, 06:58:53 am
A sane Kerbal Space Commander would have boosted this into orbit in multiple parts, I'd think.

Then again, we're DF players.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on December 27, 2012, 07:20:50 pm
After retrieving my space station crew so they wouldn't have to be stuck there for months of time acceleration, I finally launched my real Duna probe mission.

Then I launched it a second time when I realized that it wasn't going to make the trip without a nuclear engine.

(http://i.imgur.com/Dcjkb.png)

That thing is wobbly as all Hell, and doesn't even make it into a holding orbit without the transfer engine, but thanks to the magic of the interplanetary orbit plotter (http://ksp.olex.biz/) and a lot of guesswork, 120 days after launch I had a probe in gravitational encounter range of Duna.  (About half of that time was spent parked in Kerbin orbit while the planets turned.)

The orbital theoretically-docking probe half used up the last of the main fuel tightening up the orbit and will stay forever in a massively tilted oblong no less than 800 kilometers from Duna, but I'm damn impressed that it made it at all.  I don't think I'll be doing any docking with it.  As for the landing half of the probe...

(http://i.imgur.com/IPvRm.png)

Success!  As you can see, I tried to aim for a regolith sea as I hear they're good for landing and I misjudged the distance and came tumbling down a hillside instead.  Oh well, it survived with all it's instruments and some of its utility equipment intact, so I'm gonna call it a success.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GodlyTeapot on December 27, 2012, 08:03:54 pm
Any have any advice for interplanetary missions? Should I go to eve or Duna?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 02:15:08 am
Eve is easier to land on, harder to take off from, they're both about the sameish level of difficulty to actually get to, from what I understand.

In other news, my 6 kerbal manned Jool mission is successfully orbiting Laythe!
The downside is that I massively underestimated the amount of fuel needed, and by the time I land the lander and SSTO (and hopefully... send them back back upto the mothership), I won't really have the fuel to get back to Kerbin infact i'll have about one standard mid size fuel tank worth left.
One part of the problem is just me not putting enough fuel in the design itself, the other part is that I didn't really fathom how much speed i'm aerobraking off in the Jool system, and therefore how much i'll need to put back on with thrust.

Lots of pretty pictures to come sooner or later

edit: for those wondering, laythe's gravity is 7.85 and pressure is .78.


edit: screenshots.

Spoiler: nice LKO image (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: docking refueling tanks (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ready to go! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: encountering Jool (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: aerobraking in Jool (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: in orbit around Laythe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: another angle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Jeb setting off in the space plane (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Jool set (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: another angle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: landed, Jeb is happy (click to show/hide)

In the end, it took me about 5-6 goes to land it. Firstly, I needed to actually have something to land on, so it took me a couple of goes to get my orbit right so that i'd end up on the tiny island that I did manage to land on. After that, I discovered that I couldn't really make an unpowered landing with the fully laden craft, 10m/s of vertical velocity downwards is way to much. After a few goes (reloading from the upper atmosphere) i managed to land it, twice actually, but i un-deployed my landing gear once i'd stopped the first time :P

As far as the chances of it getting back into orbit and rendezvousing with the mothership? i'd rate it highly, this craft on its own is able to get into Kerbin orbit, and this planet has 80% of the gravity and atmosphere.
Next up is testing the more traditional style lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2012, 04:09:50 am
Eve is the easiest to get to, it has a large atmosphere and lots of gravity.
It also requires the least Delta-v to reach of all the planets.

Just remember to go into a westwards orbit around Kerth, when you want to go to a planet in a lower orbit around the sun.

EDIT: This coffee is fucking terrible!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on December 28, 2012, 04:16:23 am
Quote from: ank on December 28, 2012, 04:09:50 am
Just remember to go into a westwards orbit around Kerth, when you want to go to a planet in a lower orbit around the sun.

Retrograde orbit? Why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 28, 2012, 04:24:15 am
ank: No, you still launch into a prograde (east) orbit for the extra velocity provided by the planet's spin. You just need to do your escape burn on the lit side of the planet (from where you would burn for a higher orbit).

Example: http://imgur.com/a/wmZ8g
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 04:39:36 am
As an aside, is imgur a decent imagehost? Photobucket is giving me the craps lately due to their changed layout, and seemingly shrinking all of my images, even the 150kb ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 28, 2012, 04:45:41 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 04:39:36 am
As an aside, is imgur a decent imagehost? Photobucket is giving me the craps lately due to their changed layout, and seemingly shrinking all of my images, even the 150kb ones.
Imgur is easy, but compresses images. Good for sharing things where the content is more important than the quality. or for quick sharing in general as it also allows direct pasting of print screens.
Img.ie is good for reliable hosting of things where quality is important enough to deal with slightly more work to upload something.

Both are good in my experience with them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2012, 04:46:15 am
First off: it's quite possible to reach Eve both ways.

And it is harder to get a west orbit, but not by much. Kerbin rotates at 43m/s, so by launching east you are saving 86 Delta-v.

But once you are there, the transfer requires less Delta-v. Getting to another planet requires around 2000 delta-v(ballpark) so you just need to save 5% on the transfer to make it worth it.

Now, I can't really explain why, but I think some of the planetary transfer guides explains it.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 05:00:44 am
The transfer doesn't require and less change in velocity once you're in orbit.

also, pinpoint landing a lander on a tiny island is a pain in the arse.

edit: but sucessful.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/thesneakster/screenshot61-1_zpsafea33a4.png)
So that makes the 3 kerbals on 2 different landing methods on 2 different islands on Laythe. Hopefully I can get them back to orbit, and, eventually, kerbin. While the SSTO shouldn't be an issue, Bill and Bob in this lander might pose one, i'm not sure if it has enough fuel to get to orbit. It does help that i'll be starting from 4500m though.
We'll find out next year, as i'm going away for the weekend to celebrate new years :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2012, 05:18:19 am
I guess the only way to prove it is to get a Eve intercept with less than 1000 delta-v.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 28, 2012, 05:45:34 am
Congratulations, sneakey pete!
How much fuel left does your lander have? if you did an unpowered landing ( which should be possible, with laythe's thick atmosphere), you should be fine, assuming you didn't burn much when deorbiting. My duna lander is similar and it can launch from kerbin, even if it needs to decouple the radial tanks(plus engines) to do that.

now I want to try going to laythe... sad thing is that I'll have to relaunch my lander, because I forgot to have a ladder on it. which means that kerbals couldn't walk on the surface :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 28, 2012, 05:48:10 am
I didn't actually get an intercept, because I didn't bother waiting for the planets to align. A planned orbit which crosses Eve's should be sufficient.
Quote from: ank on December 28, 2012, 04:46:15 am
Now, I can't really explain why, but I think some of the planetary transfer guides explains it.
Please, do show us some of these.

Also, Kerbin rotates at 174 m/s (http://imgur.com/Q5r62) at the surface, so I don't know where you got the 43 m/s from either.

Edit: 2 images of craft (http://imgur.com/a/i7pGs) with Eve-crossing orbits planned, one orbiting retrograde, the other prograde, difference in dV required for escape burn = 2.7 m/s (0.2% difference, acceptably within margin of error for the slightly different orbits)
Oh, they're also both at 80km (+/- 3km) orbits over Kerbin.

TLDR: Always launch prograde for interplanetary travel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 06:58:22 am
Quote from: andrea on December 28, 2012, 05:45:34 am
Congratulations, sneakey pete!
How much fuel left does your lander have? if you did an unpowered landing ( which should be possible, with laythe's thick atmosphere), you should be fine, assuming you didn't burn much when deorbiting. My duna lander is similar and it can launch from kerbin, even if it needs to decouple the radial tanks(plus engines) to do that.


I used just a tiny bit to deorbit, and to burn on touchdown. 95% or more of the fuel should still be there.

I just tested the lander design, from Kerbin it can just, just get into a 70*70km orbit, using a bit of RCS to get the final amount. Considering Laythe is 80% of the size of Kerbin, I'm thinking with careful piloting that minimizes the need for any corrections, I should be able to make it back to my mothership.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2012, 07:07:27 am
Well, I used math!

The radius of Kerbal is 600km. the circumference is 600km*2*pi= 3769910 meters. then divide that with seconds in a day: 24*60*60=86400s
3769910m/86400s=43.6m/s

I have no idea why you are reading 176m/s.
Also, what did you do to get that reading? when I sit on the launch pad it tells me I'm not moving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 28, 2012, 07:13:25 am
Ah, that's your problem then. The Kerbal day is only 6 hours long. 3769910m / (1d*6h/d*60m/h*60s/m) = 174.5 m/s (the .2 m/s difference is accounted for by the jittering physics on the launch pad)

Click the readout to change modes between 'orbit' (speed relative to the center of mass for the current SoI), 'surface' (speed relative to the surface directly under you in the current SoI), and if you have a target selected, 'target' (speed relative to the selected targeted body).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2012, 07:48:18 am
well, in that case the boost you get from an east orbit is quite substantial.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 28, 2012, 07:56:48 am
it isn't just a matter of prograde and retrograde.

it is also from where in the orbit point you do your burn.

assuming no moons get in the way, there is a big difference in where you start your maneuver.

immagine the kerbol system; top down. I'll steal this from a few post ago:
http://i.imgur.com/6R2iQ.png

if you start your burn prograde, when you are moving in the planet orbit on its sun nearest point, you get shoot backward and gain your orbit dV in the transfer maneuver, aiding to lowering your sun orbit.

if you start your burn, still prograde, but on the farthest point of your orbit from the sun, you will be shot 'forward' by your burn adding your velocity to the planet orbital velocity and you'll gain speed instead of loosing it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Peewee on December 28, 2012, 09:21:43 am
Huh, I wasn't expecting my planetary slingshot guide to show up again!

It turns out that you don't usually want to be at either the nearest or furthest points from Kerbol when you do your burn, due to Kerbin pulling you into a different angle by the time you escape its gravity. (illustration (http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9836/diagramzq.png)) http://ksp.olex.biz/ shows a closer approximation for any given planet (Ignore the part of the guide that says to use a retrograde orbit to get to lower orbits, since I've just shown it to be wrong. -_-).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 28, 2012, 10:08:58 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 04:39:36 am
As an aside, is imgur a decent imagehost? Photobucket is giving me the craps lately due to their changed layout, and seemingly shrinking all of my images, even the 150kb ones.
I'm rather late to this, but I recommend Dropbox. Easiest way to share images and backup KSP saves ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 28, 2012, 11:09:43 am
Finally!! Finally managed to dock with that freaking space station and add a module.

I can reliably get near it, but I'm apparently horrible at actually controlling things up close. But I'm sort of getting the hang of it.

Enough to get this nice little power module attached, anyway.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Adding in the side struts with an RCS thruster on the end helped a good bit, I think. Made it easier to control, at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 28, 2012, 11:35:37 am
I had a plan to assemble all my boster stages into a big space station, but when I switch to them I can't control the engines. I can rotate them and RCS them, but the engine will not throttle up.

Is it because they are connected to a spent decoupler?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 01:28:29 pm
Right click on the engine, activate it. You can activate/deactivate pretty much anything now
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 28, 2012, 01:51:13 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 28, 2012, 01:28:29 pm
Right click on the engine, activate it. You can activate/deactivate pretty much anything now
Believe me, I tried all that stuff. The throttle doesn't even go up or down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 28, 2012, 01:54:24 pm
Do you have any kerbals in the the station anywhere? Or at least a command module with AI? You need those if you want to control anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 28, 2012, 02:04:26 pm
Did you run out of electricity?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 28, 2012, 04:00:41 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 28, 2012, 01:54:24 pm
Do you have any kerbals in the the station anywhere? Or at least a command module with AI? You need those if you want to control anything.
That section of the craft is unmanned. It has the small command pod for satellites.

Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on December 28, 2012, 02:04:26 pm
Did you run out of electricity?

No, I thought this was the problem at first, but for the second launch I made sure to deploy the solar panels before continuing with the mission.

I can move the craft but throttle up/down doesn't do anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 28, 2012, 04:12:46 pm
are you out of fuel?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on December 28, 2012, 05:17:05 pm
Not sure what the deal was, but it is working fine now. Manage to mate two of my orbit stages together. Now I have the urge to launch 7 more and assemble a 3x3 cube, then fill it with fuel.

It would be pointless but fun. I am pretty sure I could go anywhere with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 28, 2012, 06:14:34 pm
Resistance is Futile, you will be Kerbalated?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 28, 2012, 09:16:26 pm
are the rockets in the right stage? its unlikely but who knows.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 31, 2012, 01:38:24 am
Had good progress this weekend.

My space station is growing, although it got a bit damaged while I was trying to get the docking arm added. I'm getting better at this, but some of those space station parts are incredibly hard to control.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I may end up making a new space station at some point. That one is....kind of a mess and not really planned out.


I got tired of messing with it, though, so I moved on to my other project at the moment: A Mun Base!

Just got the first part landed. Only cost the lives of 9 Kerbals to get here (my first rocket kept blowing up around 60K for some reason. Not sure why). I'm going to set down some more habitation pods, a science pod, and at least one rover eventually. It's not all that much to look at, but it's a start!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 31, 2012, 03:46:47 am
We need the ability to add struts using eva

Nuff said.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bombzero on December 31, 2012, 03:59:20 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 31, 2012, 03:46:47 am
We need the ability to add struts using eva

Nuff said.
That would indeed be pretty dammed awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 31, 2012, 07:14:50 am
I've been lazy on KSP lately. Didn't play at all after 1.8.2...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 31, 2012, 07:43:47 am
I assume using tricoupler + 3 docking ports will make the ship align just right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 31, 2012, 10:05:36 am
Yeah, I would have loved a "grab that floating thing and glue it back on" Eva-s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on December 31, 2012, 11:56:13 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 31, 2012, 07:43:47 am
I assume using tricoupler + 3 docking ports will make the ship align just right?

Ah, so that's what people have been using that for! I was wondering what that accomplished in a lot of the pictures I've been seeing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 31, 2012, 01:47:19 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 31, 2012, 03:46:47 am
We need the ability to add struts using eva

Nuff said.

There's a mod for that. I think it's the quantum strut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 01, 2013, 02:39:49 am
Quote from: Mephansteras on December 31, 2012, 11:56:13 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on December 31, 2012, 07:43:47 am
I assume using tricoupler + 3 docking ports will make the ship align just right?

Ah, so that's what people have been using that for! I was wondering what that accomplished in a lot of the pictures I've been seeing.

I'm not sure exactly how well it works. sometimes all 3 seem to connect well, other times i've had it where only one will, (transferring thrust through them in that case... bad idea)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 01, 2013, 06:35:43 am
Anyone else have the problem where turning on RCS and ASAS causes your ship to wobble away every last drop of your mono-propellent? I swear, ships that were 100% stable in 18.1 suddenly dance back and forth across the intended heading in 18.2.

It is frustrating to watch. I have ASAS on, then I turn on RCS, and it yaws right just slightly, the it yaws left to correct, the yaws right harder to correct. After a few seconds it is full yaw right, full yaw left, over and over.

Makes docking almost impossible.

Am I just putting on too many RCS ports?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2013, 06:43:44 am
about fuel usage: all .1 ship have wrong fuel value in their rcs tanks.

about wobblines: rcs in .2 now use full force to turn your ship around, so it is possible that a .1 ship is now overcontrolled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 01, 2013, 07:17:34 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2013, 06:43:44 am
about fuel usage: all .1 ship have wrong fuel value in their rcs tanks.

about wobblines: rcs in .2 now use full force to turn your ship around, so it is possible that a .1 ship is now overcontrolled.

I thought about this so I build a new design in 18.2 and had the same problem.

I am considering a complete fresh install next with a simple ship to orbit just to see how rcs + asas react, but I was hoping for a simple solution.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 01, 2013, 06:33:30 pm
Quote from: Fikes on January 01, 2013, 07:17:34 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2013, 06:43:44 am
about fuel usage: all .1 ship have wrong fuel value in their rcs tanks.

about wobblines: rcs in .2 now use full force to turn your ship around, so it is possible that a .1 ship is now overcontrolled.

I thought about this so I build a new design in 18.2 and had the same problem.

I am considering a complete fresh install next with a simple ship to orbit just to see how rcs + asas react, but I was hoping for a simple solution.
IIRC they increased the power and consumption of RCS thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 01, 2013, 10:54:40 pm
No they made them all use the same power, irregardless of distance from the center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 02, 2013, 02:08:31 am
It seems like there's an issue with their PID control, so you can turn RCS and SAS on and it will never stablise itself properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 02, 2013, 03:31:51 am
It's less an issue with the PID, and more an issue with it just being a plain PID. It cannot account for wobble, it just tries to aim one end of a bendy stick in one direction while the other end keeps flailing around and makes the system try to correct again, only worsening the situation. Anything reasonably rigid, or set up in a way that allows it to rotate without flexing, will eventually be stabilized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 02, 2013, 03:49:55 am
A pid can and do account for wobble.

The problem with a pid is that it is a response-specific control sistem; in other world a pid wich can control a light craft can't control a huge and heavy one and vice versa; it also applies to the amount of rcs available: too little and won't converge, to much and will wobble.

You have to aim at the precise control/weight ratio for which this particular pid is tuned to, or you can change pid index into the asas part.

Note that you can also creathe clones of the asas part, call it heavy and light and give each a different tuning. There was a mod which did that before mechjeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 02, 2013, 12:46:34 pm
I am confused. What is PID anyway and is there any short answer for fixing my crafts? Even the fully ridged ones run into this problem, though to a lesser extent.

Also it seems like in 18.1 vessel control in space without RCS was easier than it is now. In 18.2 I can't even change my heading without RCS on.

Not having ASAS and RCS for docking makes things almost impossible, and in the current situation I run out of RCS from the wobble long before I dock (I am not very good at it, admittedly.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 03, 2013, 02:12:11 am
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller) will explain it better than i can put it into words.

The answer to fixing our crafts is just going to be to wait for the next update, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 03, 2013, 04:19:55 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on January 03, 2013, 02:12:11 am
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller) will explain it better than i can put it into words.

The answer to fixing our crafts is just going to be to wait for the next update, unfortunately.

<3 calculus
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 03, 2013, 05:20:32 am
I think I will just go back down to 18.1 then...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on January 04, 2013, 01:46:30 am
Docking seems like an immense headache. I managed to bounce off the station once, but actually getting the docking ports to line up seems... like it takes some work.

Spoiler: Almost... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2013, 03:42:09 am
get your doking port facing the orbit normal so it doesn't move while docking when relative to the other vessel

Spoiler: align the port so it faces the same way blue arrow direction (click to show/hide)

in 18.1 if you left asas on the other vessel on while docking it used to keep the vessel in the orientation you left it; can't say if it applies to 18.2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 04, 2013, 03:42:32 am
WOW, that thing looks so cool! :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2013, 03:47:01 am
addendum: I've noticed you're using shielded ports on one of the vessels.

I had some trouble when using shielded ports on both while I can dock with minimal effort two normal ports or a normal port and a shielded one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on January 04, 2013, 06:48:11 am
I didn't get lined up enough to even have issues with shielded ports. I'm pleased to have gotten as close as I did, but I'll have to rethink it a bit. Still, I liked the screenshot so I wanted to share.

Edit: Just tried again and managed to get it docked. Yaaaaaaaay! ^_^

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 04, 2013, 10:44:14 pm
beautiful.

now you must add 700 solar panels!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 05, 2013, 12:09:25 am
How you make so amazing space planes is awesome D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 06, 2013, 12:20:43 pm
I've entered duna in the wrong orbit (I am flat, but I turn counterclockwise instead of the other way around)

how do I get my lander orbiting the other way? I tried parking into an ike orbit but I can make any maneuver that ends with me spinning clockwise on duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on January 06, 2013, 12:46:11 pm
There are two ways you can do that,the first is to simply burn at what your current retrograde is until you're orbiting the other direction, the second is to loop around the moon there and come out orbiting the other direction. I have no idea which one is more efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on January 06, 2013, 12:55:09 pm
Or you could face normal and spin the orbit around. I don't think it really matters which way is most efficient since it's going to take a lot of delta v to pull off any of the ways. Is there a reason you need to be going clockwise?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 06, 2013, 01:02:08 pm
both tankers are orbiting duna the other way  :-X

I planned the approach for the right side but it glitched on soi change and entered counterclockwise.

edi: so I managed it jumping off of ike at the right angel; it costed me about 350 in dV
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on January 06, 2013, 01:42:27 pm
Quote from: Thendash on January 06, 2013, 12:55:09 pm
Or you could face normal and spin the orbit around. I don't think it really matters which way is most efficient since it's going to take a lot of delta v to pull off any of the ways. Is there a reason you need to be going clockwise?
That takes twice as much delta-v as just burning retrograde, since you're adding your speed again towards the pole you choose, twice your velocity retrograde from where you were headed, and again towards the other pole. It does mean that you don't lose altitude during the maneuver, but getting that back would be a tiny amount of delta-v it's not worth it unless you're going to go inside the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Techhead on January 06, 2013, 01:44:57 pm
If you're worried about losing altitude, a better solution would to turn away from the planet as you lose speed, and back towards prograde when you regain it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on January 06, 2013, 03:37:39 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 06, 2013, 12:20:43 pm
I've entered duna in the wrong orbit (I am flat, but I turn counterclockwise instead of the other way around)

how do I get my lander orbiting the other way? I tried parking into an ike orbit but I can make any maneuver that ends with me spinning clockwise on duna.

Try raising your Ap up to a few million meters, then flip your orbit around. You will be going slower, so less Dv required.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 06, 2013, 06:09:26 pm
uhm, now another problem: any way to refuel a landed craft? my lander does have a docking port on top, but landing a tanker on its head sounds... risky, at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on January 06, 2013, 06:41:38 pm
another possibility would be designing a rover to resupply it ( although obviously a side mounted port works best for that.)
of course, then you might as well add an extra tank.

if you must recover a stranded craft, and can't achieve a long legged lander, you could try several small refuelling crafts, that will travel docked to each other, then once in orbit will separate, and in turn will deorbit and land on top of your craft, with less risk of excessive damage due to little mass. of course, anything less than perfect control and your kerbals will be stranded forever. but at least alive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on January 07, 2013, 02:13:36 pm
http://de.twitch.tv/kerbalsp

from right now for around 1h the devs will talk about 0.19 and 0.20 updates and whats planed the next months...
(ended by now)


seems to be happening every monday. so next will come up sometime at the 14th probably.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 08, 2013, 05:38:27 am
clearly the most efficient method is slingshotting around a moon.
Remember to enter the moon SOI from behind the moon, or you'll be slingshottet away from Duna.

The other alternative is burning something like 3000 Delta-v.

Or you could meet half-way in a polar orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 08, 2013, 07:00:12 am
Quote from: Nelia Hawk on January 07, 2013, 02:13:36 pm
http://de.twitch.tv/kerbalsp

from right now for around 1h the devs will talk about 0.19 and 0.20 updates and whats planed the next months...
(ended by now)


seems to be happening every monday. so next will come up sometime at the 14th probably.

Did it go in the archives?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on January 08, 2013, 07:20:52 am
Quote from: DrPoo on January 08, 2013, 07:00:12 am
Quote from: Nelia Hawk on January 07, 2013, 02:13:36 pm
http://de.twitch.tv/kerbalsp

from right now for around 1h the devs will talk about 0.19 and 0.20 updates and whats planed the next months...
(ended by now)


seems to be happening every monday. so next will come up sometime at the 14th probably.

Did it go in the archives?
http://de.twitch.tv/kerbalsp/b/354937382
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 10, 2013, 09:59:46 am
This is my newest project.

(http://i.imgur.com/iEHbk.png)
It launches with only mainsails. Not depicted are the four triple-stacked orange tanks that were crossfed into the radial ones in the image. They lasted quite a long time, and helped boost the entire thing into tha' stratosphere!

(http://i.imgur.com/IGzV9.png)
Once in space, the nearly expended tanks are jettisoned. They are barely enough to get into orbit. The entire ship weights 680 tons.

The use of the tri-couplers let me attack pretty much anything to them and still be stable. I could, say, launch up orange tanks, tri-couple them to the ship (four in total), then launch refuelers to fill them up for an easy flight to, say, Duna. Or, I could only have two boosters, then use the other tri-couplers, or even the non-tripled docks on each of the hubs to attach extra equipment. For example, right now I misjudged the amount of electricity the MechJeb pod uses. I also forgot to send up a nuclear generator, so I can send up a tiny rocket that has a bunch of nuclear generators to augment the solar panels.

(http://i.imgur.com/FkRFw.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 10, 2013, 10:34:38 am
What's surprising is that you managed all that while your tricoupled docking ports were never completely connected.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 10, 2013, 11:56:09 am
What do you mean? O_o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on January 10, 2013, 12:02:00 pm
Note the way the docking ports are falling off the spent tanks in the last picture. When you're building a ship in the VAB, you can only connect one connection point on whatever you are placing to one other connection point, any other ones have to have a new piece connected to them (even if it's the tricoupler docking port scenario, or something similar).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 10, 2013, 01:14:19 pm
Eh? It seemed like all three were connected... I'm not sure.
Still, I got all the way up, and the rockets didn't tear my ship apart :p Hopefully later booster sections will be able to tridock.
I wish multiport hub connectors were able to do radial symmetry. I can't decorate my ship if it's not symettrized :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 10, 2013, 01:57:19 pm
For all three to connect, you need to connect them in the proper fashion. If you are connecting two tricouplers with docking ports, here's how you do it.

1) Attach the parent tricoupler. Obviously.
2) Attach the three parent docking ports to the tricoupler, in symmetry.
3) Turn symmetry off, attach one receiving docking port, turned the right way up, to one of the parent ports.
4) Attach the receiving tricoupler to the receiving docking port, turned right way up. Don't bother if it's not oriented right yet.
5) Carefully, making sure the right part is highlighted, attach the remaining two receiving docking ports to the receiving tricoupler.
6) If the receiving and parent tricouplers aren't matched up at this point, detach the receiving tricoupler along with the one port it's attached to, and orient it correctly.
7) If there is a significant load on the connection when on the launchpad (i.e. there are tanks hanging off the connection, or a cargo payload above it), use struts to connect the two tricouplers together. This will ensure that all docking ports catch and dock when the rocket appears on the launchpad.

It's possible to set up a lot of very interesting connections with this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 10, 2013, 03:40:25 pm
Been playing a bit. My Mun colony has had some...issues. I landed a Science pod down within 200m of my initial lander, and was feeling pretty good about that. Then I accidentally hit the engines and it crashed. The Kerbals survived, so I migrated them to the main pod, which is now pretty full. I sent them a supply ship, which landed mostly ok, so I feel like they're in decent shape for now. If without a science pod to do work in.

My next plan was to get a large Rover down that could ferry kerbals around. That went poorly, as they always crashed trying to land and get righted onto the wheels.

So, rather than do something silly like make a better rover design, I'm doing this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Which is my MunBus, and the lander ship that I'm constructing in orbit to take it to the Mun and, in theory, get it safely to the ground. One more lander pod to add and then we'll see if all this work has been worth it.

EDIT: Last module is attached, and the MunBus is ready to go!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To the Mun and Glory! (And probably a horrible explody death). Dilroy doesn't seem to pleased about his chances.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 11, 2013, 11:10:43 am
One of the best names I've ever heard. It reminds me of a friend of mine who had a ship orbiting for years before he realized it was manned by a "Dildorf Kerman".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 11, 2013, 01:40:06 pm
Well...that didn't go well.

(http://i.imgur.com/qpt1a.png)

One of the lander pods broke off shortly after I tried going to the Moon. I was afraid it was a bit too fragile.

Fortunately, I still have the major pieces in orbit ok. It'll take some doing, but I should be able to build a more stable transport ship to get the MunBus out to the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on January 11, 2013, 06:40:13 pm
I'm experimenting with modular design for a deep space craft. Each engine will have a small RCS tank attached to one side, a probe attached to the other and RCS thrusters around the fuel tank. I'll just switch them around while in space. Using this I hope to be able to assemble different landers for different moons when I finally get around to travelling to Jool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 11, 2013, 06:44:20 pm
I have a problem with carrying cargo on my spacecraft. Usually if its something dockable i have to put something between the docking port of my capsule and the payload, so it seems like nose mountign your payloads is very inefficient.. but then.. what? How the fuck can i do this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on January 11, 2013, 06:51:52 pm
Give me an idea of what you're trying to carry into orbit and i'll see if I can throw a design out
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 11, 2013, 07:25:12 pm
Its more like.. how to get stack seperators out of your design? Whats a minimal debris producing solution to bringing payloads into orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 11, 2013, 07:46:44 pm
Why care about debris?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on January 11, 2013, 07:52:47 pm
It's to reduce local entropy. In other words, so more crap keeps piling up in some other part of the universe.
Debris reduction is the new toilet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dogstile on January 11, 2013, 08:03:15 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 11, 2013, 07:25:12 pm
Its more like.. how to get stack seperators out of your design? Whats a minimal debris producing solution to bringing payloads into orbit?

Oh, this ones more about planning where to dump your stages actually. For example, my first stage will hit kerbin. I will dump my second stage when my orbit is at about 65km (under 70km, i'll watch it go down later, it won't get caught by orbit unless you're actually watching it).

If i'm hitting the moon, My third stage is usually enough to land and my payload will be connected via docking ports (you can make these in the vehicle assembly lab by building bottom up if you want it on the nose). Now, depending on how specific I want to be, I either have seperatron rockets on the lander or I plan to have more than a tiny bit of fuel left (I like the seperatrons to be honest). I'll just head up and away and let it crash later.

Specifically for orbit

Just drop your main lifting stages while they're still being affected by the atmosphere and have a tiny stage to get your payload above the atmosphere. Separate the stage, turn the lifting stage around and just gun it so it drops into atmosphere again. You can use the cube struts to stick probes onto the sides of rockets if you need to find space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 11, 2013, 08:16:33 pm
if you enter your orbit at low height, about 80km, and then use a light lifting stage to bring it up, then some separatron strategically placed will be enough to deorbit your debris.

for my design, I have the ascending stage and I use it fully, it brings me at about 250km, then it drops to kerbin (I make sure not to circularize the orbit) then the interplanetary stage will circularize and shoot me out of kerbin soi; at that point I don't care about it becoming a debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 12, 2013, 06:00:42 am
You can just end the flight too.

Haven't had time to get my folks back from Jool. went to get jebs space plane back upto orbit from Laythe and dropped the gears. again. Icons on the HuD aren't really intuitive to me i guess
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2013, 06:27:54 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on January 12, 2013, 06:00:42 am
You can just end the flight too.

Haven't had time to get my folks back from Jool. went to get jebs space plane back upto orbit from Laythe and dropped the gears. again. Icons on the HuD aren't really intuitive to me i guess


If you want the easy way you can just go and set debris to 0 in config.
Latest version had solved that problem about debris not marked as such.

But it is just more fun to design things with the debris problem in mind. Consider that each asparagus stage on my craft drops six tanks, that is a lot of stuf on the common equatorial orbit.
 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on January 12, 2013, 07:06:45 am
What I typically do is always aim for an orbit at 70 km. Anything I drop there is just a matter of a slight retroburn, stage, prograde burn. For higher orbits, I add small booster rockets with their own unmanned module and power and go for a simple stage-deorbit burn. With these, I've yet to clutter up my orbits with debris.

Now the runway on the other hand...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 12, 2013, 10:06:46 am
The misaligned docking ports (in VAB) got all separated, and I have 12 bits of rocket in perfect orbit with the station I launched, and now I can't select it for targeting. I wish debris was unable to be selected as a target ;_;
I'll have to wipe my debris using the persistent debris option. I like the debris, though. It gives me a sense of accomplishment xD

Also, about triple docking ports: As long as you dock them in orbit, they work fine! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 12, 2013, 10:14:08 am
Why do you guys like tricoupling ports anyway?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 12, 2013, 10:17:39 am
It's more stable!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 12, 2013, 12:56:24 pm
And more cool!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 13, 2013, 01:23:09 pm
http://www.twitch.tv/kerbalsp/b/356066834
The January 11 stream had the crew using some mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 13, 2013, 02:37:41 pm
Which ones?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 13, 2013, 03:46:36 pm
Lazor, rovers, and something else...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on January 14, 2013, 10:13:25 am
Well it's been a while, but progress has been made.

Spoiler: Final modules (click to show/hide)

Next up, sending five refueler ships into orbit and dock. In other words, how to most efficiently get up five full orange tanks in the least amount of time..
After that, SPEHSS and Eve. Or explode horrifyingly. Either way, it'll be plagued by the frames... By Sithis, the frames! They're dying!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2013, 03:35:16 pm
Having a bit of a problem building my new MunBus lander.

I have a long connector strut that is going to go on each side of the side struts to make a nice, solid box.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That went well enough, and the first long strut is in place. However, it's not connected on both sides, despite being lined up properly. The top circled part here isn't connected, even though the bottom one locked in fine and it's sort of bumping back and forth on the connectors that it's supposed to be locked into.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyone have any good suggestions on how to get both sides to lock into place?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 15, 2013, 01:48:15 am
I think that the length is very slightly off.

It has to be perfect for it to dock that way.

Your ship might be 1 cm too long and it won't dock
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on January 15, 2013, 06:14:54 am
If you want to make sure your docking ports line up perfectly, you really have to reuse the parts from the first craft on the second craft.

For example, if you go back to my "getting heavier things in orbit" tutorial, the orbit stage from that craft would have to be the same as the orbit stage from the next craft you use.

What I do is build the orbit stage, complete with panels, control (the probe control), and RCS. Then I attach my payload and booster stages to it. That way no matter what payload I am sending to orbit, I can always dock the orbit stages together.

I am not sure that makes much sense, but I can sum it up by saying this. Never try to manually build two similar pieces, always reuse the first design on the second ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 15, 2013, 08:07:49 am
GreatOrder, download the Orbital Construction mod, and you now have legitimate, 1 ton per part supplies to bus to and from the Mun to a space dock of your choosing.
I tried shipping 800 tons of that to an different planet, but 1.8.2 happened.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 15, 2013, 08:47:43 am
When you say one ton per part, do you mean one ton for say, an orange fuel tank?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 15, 2013, 09:17:11 am
"Spare part" is a resource name. It weights 1 ton per "1", so a SpareParts Medium module weights around 26 tons. When you create ships and deploy them into space directly (instead of from Kerbil), it uses 1 Spare Part per ton of your ship's weight. So in the end it's not cheaty at all, since you paid for every single ton of your ship with rocket fuel. But it's probably useful for getting ships into orbit without pesky launching every single time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 15, 2013, 11:00:40 am
Quote from: ank on January 15, 2013, 01:48:15 am
I think that the length is very slightly off.

It has to be perfect for it to dock that way.

Your ship might be 1 cm too long and it won't dock

Hmm...well that's problematic. I'll have to rethink this design. Sounds like I'm going to need to create some sort of universal strut to create the base of the ship. Which should be doable, I suppose, but it'll make things a little more difficult.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 15, 2013, 04:31:25 pm
You can do many a silly and fun thing with planes in air, but I've never really done much with getting them to space. It's simpler to use rockets most of the time.

That said, the idea of using a spaceplane for a landing is something I might try. I've been meaning to do some SCIENCE with spaceplanes and high-speed reentry for a while now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 15, 2013, 04:46:51 pm
Things that help with airplanes, for me:

ASAS, obviously. Note that you CAN in fact turn with ASAS on with some difficulty, I do it all the time. Or turn it off for short bits.

Precision Control, which you can toggle with the caps lock. Makes the controls less sensitive: to be exact, makes it take longer for them to go from 'not manuvering' to 'full tilt'. I.e, while you can still turn as hard as before, you can't be quite as sudden about it.

Balance your center of mass/lift/thrust! Torque is a thing that can happen, and you would like your plane to naturally want to orient itself reasonably close to horizontal, perhaps slightly pitch up.

For jet engines, remember: air intakes, air intakes, air intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2013, 06:44:53 pm
So did I mention this mod already? Because its bloody awesome.

http://kerbalspaceport.com/quantum-strut/

Quantum Struts!

When unpowered, they do nothing. When powered, they are a strut! Attach things to things! With power!

Recommended for orbital construction, and with lots of power generation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2013, 01:35:52 am
I prefer this to the lasery one
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/36914-PLUGIN-PART-0-18-2-Docking-Strut-%E2%80%93-V-1-0-0-0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on January 16, 2013, 07:18:02 am
Hi guys  :)

So I finally decided to buy this game, I'm starting a space station and stuff but I'm having a problem with my latest module.

It's a small vessel (don't know how you'd call it irl) that will do 'ground' work near my station (moving modules around, these kind of things). I designed one but I'm having trouble assembling it in the ship editor, it won't let me put it on top of my rocket :
http://www.noelshack.com/2013-03-1358338428-screenshot5.png
Never mind, I reassembled it piece by piece from the top of my pod.

Also I'm pretty sure I saw somone who had a robotic arm on his station. I'm guessing it can be used to move modules around, probably even more easily than it would be with my vessel. But I can't find anything like it in the rocket editor... Is it a mod?

Btw I already tried to put a decoupler on top of my rocket and it worked without problem... That's why I just don't get it.

Aside from that I landed on the moon!:
http://www.noelshack.com/2013-03-1358338494-screenshot0.png yeah I know....  :D

Also I have to thank you for making me discover this game. Seeing this thread often on the top persuaded me to buy it and I'm not disappointed at all
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 16, 2013, 08:35:08 am
Yes, this game is awesome.

IMO, it's more awesome with a few mods that are pretty much what should be in vanilla, like the abovementioned Docking Struts, or Orbital Construction, or Larger Trusses...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on January 16, 2013, 09:52:19 am
Truly awesome indeed! I'm gonna keep my game vanilla, at least until release. I want to keep my save in a working state  :D
What I really "hate" so far is docking... It takes me like 30 minutes to dock a new module to my station  :o
They should make a new part to help with this; everytime, I have to align with the station then press T so my asas keeps me the way I am, then remove it, press R to activate RCS. Move a bit towards my station. Then press R and T to stop my ship from changing angles... During that time my ship probably rotated on itself, forcing me to rearrange the rotation  :o
I hope I'm doing something the wrong way, else it requires tons of skill. I'm sure IRL they have all kind of assistance devices.
edit:Maybe a device that gives your ship the same speed on all axis than the station... I don't know but this is really frying my brain
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2013, 10:02:36 am
You aren't making proper use if the docking altrnate control modes

Using space swithes between translation and rotation.

In rotation asas is off and controls rotate the ship
When you switch to translation asas is switched on automatically and holds your orentation (the best it can, remember to place rcs on both sides of your module...)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on January 16, 2013, 10:07:09 am
Damn I feel stupid, I actually didn't notice there was a docking mode  :-[
Thanks  ;)
However, sometimes when I switch my asas on while rcs is active, it keeps flooding rcs non stop
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on January 16, 2013, 10:19:30 am
If you're already docking things, you're doing good progress. I'm not even going to tell you how long it took me to ... well, get something into space, for one! :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 16, 2013, 11:26:17 am
I hate doking mode. It's much easier in normal mode for me.

The key to docking is threefold. One, make sure your ship is balanced, RCS wise. Else, it's a huge pain in the ass. Two, ASAS should be on when translating. Anything short of perfect balance will make your ship twirl. Three, Keep RCS on. Turning it off is like cutting away your steering wheel.

Wellc I guess there's more, but those are important!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on January 16, 2013, 11:34:32 am
well, considering I have a module on top of my ship when I'm trying to dock it, my RCS are not balanced at all. It'd be a shame to ruin my station aesthetics to make the docking easier  :D
What I would like is at least to be able to lock my ship from rotating on itself without having to use the asas, because as I sad asas burns all my RCS fuel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 16, 2013, 11:39:50 am
Download 'Toggleable ASAS' mod. Then add two SAS to your ship. If you use that mod, you can have SAS on without your ASAS wasting your aim and your monoprop fuel.

Really, ASAS should be manually toggleable.

Also: do it like me and have a carrier that deposits the module, then fires away. I used that to add an assymetric generator module, without any useless parts like a control pod, and save my unmanned station.


EDIT: SAS is what makes your ship stop turning even without RCS. Says so inthe description, 'stops your ship from spinning around'. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2013, 11:41:13 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/13155-Win-With-Auto-Updater!-Kerbal-Space-Program-Mod-Manager-1-4-7-0/page8

I'll leave this there
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stoney834 on January 16, 2013, 12:47:35 pm
It sounds like you have either too many RCS thrusters, or they are too far away from the centre of mass.  This makes the SAS over-steer endlessly and it also means that the controls will be too sensitive to dock easily.  You can disable individual RCS thrusters by right-clicking on them. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on January 16, 2013, 01:03:18 pm
Thanks a lot guys  :)
Have fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 04:12:50 pm
Am I missing something here? I thought T toggled on/off the ASAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2013, 04:18:01 pm
If I got it correctly, SAS provide torque, ASAS control, the mod allow you to control the SAS torque without ASAS controlling it

if you activate T now with only SAS they will hold attitude but won't help turning, because when they're on also the hold attitude mode is on
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 16, 2013, 06:14:31 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 16, 2013, 05:38:30 pm
Mechjeb is dicking about. I'm trying to change the orbital height, but it won't let me go to the end of the present height to delete that one. I can only add numbers and letters to it.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

EDIT: aaaaaand the physics engine is also dicking about. My ship has the main part of it (the munar base) sink through the rest of the ship, before reaching the engines and blowing up.

RAEG!
Lrn 2 fli propprliy b4 usin mekjeb n00b lol.

Yay for mocking my own thought process.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2013, 06:16:33 pm
ah! back in my time we landed on the mun without mod nor warp, and getting there and back again was a 16h missions with hand calculated hohmann transfers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 06:34:06 pm
YUS

Orbital docking success. Habitat module is now docked to KSS1. Three kerbals living aboard station at this time.

Next step:

Rondevous and dock spacedock and C2 module. Then we can start ferrying parts up and build INSPAEC
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 07:47:29 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 16, 2013, 07:03:35 pm
Does anyone want to make a base where we all add a module to it and pass it on à la goonstation, except on the mun?

Or maybe Minmas. Not too far from home.
Sounds fun, though we'd also have to set up a mod back so we all have the same parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 16, 2013, 07:58:16 pm
Speaking of mods...

I've been playing with a lot of mods lately, but the Airship mod (courtesy of Hooligan Labs, whoever they are) is especially neat. Adds balloons and also inflatable parachute-like things. Sadly, the former are not particularly useful as boosters, it seems. That shape is rather awkward.

Linky! (http://kerbalspaceport.com/hooligan-labs-airship-parts-and-plugin/)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 16, 2013, 08:35:04 pm
(http://www.pinkberry.com/images/stories/webimages/yogurt_pumpkin_img2.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 08:45:39 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 16, 2013, 08:35:04 pm
So...
On that reminder, does anyone know if Zeppelinmod has updated for SMP yet?
SMP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on January 16, 2013, 08:54:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 08:45:39 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 16, 2013, 08:35:04 pm
So...
On that reminder, does anyone know if Zeppelinmod has updated for SMP yet?
SMP?
I think Graknorke posted in the wrong thread :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 17, 2013, 07:39:59 am
Quote from: greatorder on January 16, 2013, 07:03:35 pm
Does anyone want to make a base where we all add a module to it and pass it on à la goonstation, except on the mun?

Or maybe Minmas. Not too far from home.
We could do this where we build anywhere in the system, not just one one place. Set intermediate goals. Each person gets one good launch before passing it on (test launches and such don't count but you have to delete your debris). Like person 1 might decide to put up the core for a space station. Person 2 might add a spacedock to the station. Person 3 might ferry up 300 tons of spare parts to build a mun lander in orbit and then land on the mun. Person 4 might expand the mun base, dropping down a fueling station or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 17, 2013, 08:08:53 am
Count me in.

Will we handle this in its own thread as a succession game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on January 17, 2013, 08:27:47 am
I wonder how many turns there will be until the FPS becomes unbearableexciting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 17, 2013, 08:30:42 am
Ferrying up 300 tons at once ain't an easy task... xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 17, 2013, 12:16:35 pm
Quote from: Sirus on January 16, 2013, 08:54:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 16, 2013, 08:45:39 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 16, 2013, 08:35:04 pm
[REDACTED]
SMP?
I think Graknorke posted in the wrong thread :P
What post? I see no post and I'm certain there never was one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 17, 2013, 12:39:12 pm
I would love if we could have airship mod. I want to make a platform on Jool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 17, 2013, 12:58:04 pm
I'd fancy kethane, orbital construction and the docking struts mods
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on January 17, 2013, 01:08:15 pm
would surely add a few more activities and complexity to the base.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 17, 2013, 01:15:21 pm
and something to do/prepare for the next in line, and something to start with for the receiving player
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 17, 2013, 03:56:51 pm
Quote from: da_nang on January 17, 2013, 08:27:47 am
I wonder how many turns there will be until the FPS becomes unbearableexciting.
Given that we'd be doing things all over the solar system, not making one fuckhuge station in orbit, it may be bearable.

So who is going to organize this? Do I need to step in and start it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 17, 2013, 04:45:47 pm
We need a fixed set of mods for this though.

Kethane and Mechjeb would be CRUCIAL
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 17, 2013, 05:01:02 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on January 17, 2013, 04:45:47 pm
We need a fixed set of mods for this though.

Kethane and Mechjeb would be CRUCIAL
Agreed. Kethane, Mechjeb, Airships.

I've started a new topic here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121837.0

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 21, 2013, 01:11:34 pm
I just came in here to say that I managed to get in a stable orbit around the sun.

In (the fourth iteration of) my first spaceship. (Then again, I was trying to get in a stable orbit around Kerbin but failed and reached escape velocity, and then I ran out of fuel.).
But still, this is awesome.

Spoiler: Pic (click to show/hide)

(I lost Jeb somewhere in Kerbin's ocean. I'll have to go pick him up sometime.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 21, 2013, 01:29:49 pm
I think I may have undone it by doing End Flight :x

But I will return, this time with RCS because why the fuck not!

E: Does anybody knwo how I switch my rocket from a manned pod to a MechJeb unmanned pod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 22, 2013, 03:30:19 pm
something I am preparing for the community ksp station

Spoiler: Webbity Web inc. Part Transport (click to show/hide)


1489 tons of juicy stuff to bring spare parts up to Duna.

it can barely reach the red planet but I don't ave enough oomph to stop once there - and floating point stuff means I can't intercept the Duna atmosphere from afar to aerobrake it on a saner orbit.

I will probably need a pusher tug doking to it to get it out of the kerbal ski; that should save me 850dv at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 22, 2013, 04:14:58 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 21, 2013, 01:29:49 pm
E: Does anybody knwo how I switch my rocket from a manned pod to a MechJeb unmanned pod?
You could use Payloader to separate the launch vehicle from the payload and join the two later.  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29950
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 23, 2013, 10:12:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 22, 2013, 04:14:58 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 21, 2013, 01:29:49 pm
E: Does anybody knwo how I switch my rocket from a manned pod to a MechJeb unmanned pod?
You could use Payloader to separate the launch vehicle from the payload and join the two later.  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29950
Thank you so much. I was kinda surprised when I found out you couldn't do this in-game (so I just ended up attatching my payload on top of my crew cockpit thingy i forgot the name of)

E: Oh, and what do action groups do?

E2: Fuck payloader. I accidently deleted my newest rocket model. Fuck this piece of crap. Why would you even need a delete button?

E3: Yay for accidental backups.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 23, 2013, 10:20:52 am
They are just key bindings.

You can associate a part and whatever action that part does to a key, then use that key in game.

I.e. it may be use on a plane with air breathing and space engines to toggle between both.

To do so:
Add air engines to last stage, add space engines to first stage.
This will make it so that space engines are off at start.

Add all engines to an action group. Set the action on each engine to toggle.

Now when you press the associated key each engine will toggle its status

You can conbine activable parts and action groups in any way you want; basically everythin you can do on a part right clicking on it in game can be bound to an action group
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on January 23, 2013, 10:30:15 am
Quote
E2: Fuck payloader. I accidently deleted my newest rocket model. Fuck this piece of crap. Why would you even need a delete button?
Not got your setup (not in front of me, anyway) but wouldn't Ctrl-Z have worked, prior to your E3 solution?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 23, 2013, 10:31:33 am
So, I can do the following things:


How do you orbit Kerbal :S?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 23, 2013, 10:35:52 am
Hehe, depends on how you made it orbit the sun. I did that by overshooting my orbit attempts. So I *could* theoretically get in an orbit around Kerbin myself. But I rather use Mechjeb.

Oh, and always include parachutes. Make sure your module can safely bail out at any time. (Seriously, my first rocket design has an almost 0% lethality rate. I can usually ram spacebar and browse B12 in peace knowing that the parachutes will bring them down safely.)


E: I'm serious. My rocket just clipped the launch tower with 25 boosters on all sides except above the rocket, and ramming spacebar saved me.

E2: Err, shit. I managed to get into orbit and release my probe without too much hassle and with some delta-v left. But now I can't control my ship anymore. The little wings won't move and I can't toggle RCS or SAS. Escape still works, and I think space does too. (But I can't test that, because that would trigger the last stage and make me stuck in orbit for eternity.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 11:14:26 am
You ran out of electricity, miauw xD

Now, today I had, as part of my volunteer job, patrolling (=wandering around looking useful) the aerospace part of the science museum. As I was looking at the pitiful excuses for interactive booths, I thought KSP would be so perfect as a set of kiosks.

Eg, there was a 'Dock with ISS!' thing that was three shapeless plastic lumps in water, controlled with a joystick. There was also a 'launch a rocket!' thing that was nothing but a button, then autopilot. :/
I see KSP doing an awesome job (with some modifications for kiosks, like a reset ability, multiple cameras at a time to reduce learning curve for docking....) in the museum, making rocketry fun and alive, not the boring and dead panels of generic text, the bland models of lunar landers...
Actually, I saw actual RCSes on the lander today. They had chutes to prevent the propellent from damaging thhe ship. :D

TLDR: KSP FOR AEROSPACE MUSEUMS! PLEASE! D: It's even scientifically accurate!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 23, 2013, 11:16:13 am
But I have 4 of those PNUK reactor things! How can I run out of power? :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 11:20:16 am
That's weird. Why can't you toggle SAS or RCS, then? :/
Are you sure your electriity is at 5/5?  Though even one reactor is more than enough for a probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 23, 2013, 11:31:11 am
I'm not flying the probe, I'm flying the command module of the rocket that got the probe into orbit. I couldn't remove the command module, so I just plopped a probe on top of the command module. I just couldn't in any way move my winglets. So I decided to take a risk and wait until my rocket pointed at kerbin by itself and then accelerate. It worked and I'm now going down. Strangely, my RCS and winglets work again.

E: SUCCES! I have landed!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on January 23, 2013, 12:20:02 pm
In previous versions I've sometimes had the green light (that changes from red on the launchpad, once the engine has obviously decided it's ready to launch, just as the the setup 'settles', and (if I've overloaded any section) the worst-attached bits fall off) go back to red, mid-flight, giving me no control for a period of time.  Usually this is around the apex of the flight, having coasted since leaving the atmosphere, and now I really want to do another big burn.

While control often comes back on its own (when I'm now descending), I often managed to get control back when I'm barely falling (or still going up a little, if I worked out what was happening, in time), by flipping into orbital-view then back to the craft-cam one.  Although not always the first time I did this.

I don't know if this is linked to your issue, but mentioning it in passing in case it is (perhaps you can test this 'solution' if you get this happening again).  I'm generally playing on a machine that's not of brilliant spec, but works well enough normally.  But I rather imagined that it's (for some reason) deciding to re-calculate the stress'n'strains map across the whole craft, or something, and needs a bit of 'me time' for it to do that, and doesn't want anybody messing with the controls whilst it's doing so. ;)  This imagining is almost certainly wrong, of course...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 23, 2013, 01:08:18 pm


God damnit i would love working with something like Skyrunner works with. Teaching little kids that space is fun .3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 23, 2013, 03:56:23 pm
it does has limitations, but sound miles ahead of 'things in water to try docking'
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 23, 2013, 04:21:54 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 23, 2013, 01:54:39 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 11:14:26 am
You ran out of electricity, miauw xD

Now, today I had, as part of my volunteer job, patrolling (=wandering around looking useful) the aerospace part of the science museum. As I was looking at the pitiful excuses for interactive booths, I thought KSP would be so perfect as a set of kiosks.

Eg, there was a 'Dock with ISS!' thing that was three shapeless plastic lumps in water, controlled with a joystick. There was also a 'launch a rocket!' thing that was nothing but a button, then autopilot. :/
I see KSP doing an awesome job (with some modifications for kiosks, like a reset ability, multiple cameras at a time to reduce learning curve for docking....) in the museum, making rocketry fun and alive, not the boring and dead panels of generic text, the bland models of lunar landers...
Actually, I saw actual RCSes on the lander today. They had chutes to prevent the propellent from damaging thhe ship. :D

TLDR: KSP FOR AEROSPACE MUSEUMS! PLEASE! D: It's even scientifically accurate!
Somewhat accurate. Can only model one source of gravity at a time.
I'm not sure that that's correct.
Else entering a different body's SOI wouldn't be as smooth as they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 23, 2013, 06:11:05 pm
yes it is correct.

SOI interface is a change in force, so it won't change trajectory abruptly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 09:17:41 pm
I think the 'one body at a time' is an unsolvable technical limitation. O.o
I remember Wiki saying some smart guy prove you can't predict the course of an orbiting object influenced by more than one gravity field at a time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on January 23, 2013, 10:02:54 pm
That and it wouldn't add much to game play even if you could predict your trajectory. Sure you get Lagrangian points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point), but most people wouldn't be able to take advantage of them, and even if you could, your missions to other planets would take (in-game) decades instead of years.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 23, 2013, 11:53:53 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 09:17:41 pm
I think the 'one body at a time' is an unsolvable technical limitation. O.o
I remember Wiki saying some smart guy prove you can't predict the course of an orbiting object influenced by more than one gravity field at a time.

This is why universe sandbox freaked me the hell out when I realized what it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 11:57:19 pm
Why would it? O_o I'm sure the Universe Sandbox does the math in an n-body simulation... doesn't it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on January 24, 2013, 04:18:02 am
No, it uses magic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on January 24, 2013, 06:34:44 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 23, 2013, 09:17:41 pm
I think the 'one body at a time' is an unsolvable technical limitation. O.o
I remember Wiki saying some smart guy prove you can't predict the course of an orbiting object influenced by more than one gravity field at a time.
I think the big problem with the Three[1]-Body problem is integrating the effect gravity of each component upon each other for any progression of 't'.

By making two 'minor' assumptions (to whit, that user craft/debris does not significantly impinge on any gravity well[2], and that you ignore the potential for cumulative perturbations in all natural bodies' orbits[3]) you could keep a decently realistic orbital ballet going but can now abandon the idea that a spacecraft is only under the influence of one body at a time.  Let the spacecraft 'suffer' a true summation of forces from every 'permanent' body in the system, while safely ignoring the inconsequential reciprocal dynamics.  This way it would be able to take advantage of Lagrange Points and perhaps add some additional (or at least less abstracted) slingshotting possibilities.

It's still a shifting map of gravity gradients that could tax the "projected orbit" calculator, and perhaps a compromise approximation of making it the two[4] most significant bodies to the craft (for any given region of space) would give practical (if not exactly accurate) L-points while reducing the pressure on the path calculator.


But I'm sure each level of compromise has already been considered by the developers, already.  (I don't frequent their forums, so I'm in the dark about any actual Word Of God statements on this subject.)



[1] Or any N, where N>2.

[2] Or you could fade off such an effect at 1km or so, so that a minute force might eventually draw pretty-much relatively unmoving items together when in a particularly slow part of a sufficiently eccentric orbit, but ignore it otherwise.

[3] If there's a definite resonance between orbital periods, then perhaps a non-elliptical orbit could be hard-coded, perhaps even a 'horseshoe orbit', like some actual solar system asteroids and such) but everything's still on 'rails' for all practical purposes, just slightly modified rail-paths.

[4] Or maybe three.  The actual closest body, the body around which this first orbits and the closest satellite of this first body.  But the closest body and whichever is most significant (assuming a choice) between {body1.parent && body.child.nearest} could give you the best two from which Lagrange Points could form from, albeit then without perturbation from additional satellites of the parent in the chosen pair or from the 'grandparent', if any.  (Here I'm assuming the current distribution of system masses stays much the same as the current layout, without any supermassive outer moons able to supersede over ultra-minor inner moons, at any point...  But then such a situation would probably make problematic my basic assumption that one could 'railroad' the orbits, and wilfully remain blind to the more realistic possibility of system instabilities.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2013, 07:00:04 am
The main problem is that you can't apply force for each frame that way.

It works in orbiter, but it breaks as soon as you add warp effects.

Semplifing to a single body means they could just store the orbital parameters and put the craft on rails. After the orbit is on rail they can get the precise craft position at any time in past of future whitout having to calculate the effect of forces at each intermediate step
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 24, 2013, 07:06:37 am
Yes, the warp and the orbital predictions are the reasons that they use a SoI system, not because its impossible to code for a n body problem
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on January 24, 2013, 08:50:20 am
Not that I've seen much need for a calculation of a craft's past position in the current iteration...  There's the 'already passed' half of any plotted orbital path but right now that could just as easily be the segment from +0.5 to +1 orbits 'forward' (ignoring any encounter/dis-encounter transitions) as extrapolating backwards.

The same treatment (tied to the moving volume of space[1] of the same two (or three) most significant influences) might not be able to produce something similar (not always being able to create a true closed orbit) but extrapolating backwards could be done for that, the same as extrapolating forwards, at least to a point where (if one ignored change of frames) an equal amount (by time and/or distance) of forward orbital and rearward orbital brings the tracks to the same celestial 'longitude' from the primary orbital body, even if they don't meet there.  The transition point to now being in two(/three) different influences (losing one moon and gaining another, or gaining the sun instead of one/vice-versa) could probably be similarly treated as the single-change-of-influence transitions as of now, i.e. do not draw the path beyond that encounter-point and instead draw the new 'continuation' on the moving frame that is destined to meet the current one.

(I can see what I'm explaining quite clearly in my mind's eye, but I'm not sure it's properly survived the transition to explanatory text.  Apologies if I've made the result too convoluted, but I think you should be able to work out what I mean, even if you don;'t agree with it..!)

But, yes, the maths is more complex to create the 'railroad' for coasting (and warping) on. Still simpler than adding a propulsive delta-V component to the predicted path. ;)


Anyway, let it be the way it is, I'm just postulating.  Perhaps out of my nether regions, for which I might need to apologise...

[1] A constantly rotating frame of reference, around the barycentre of the two bodies concerned (typically NAMND to the centre of the larger, rotating with the same periodicty as the smaller's orbital plan), upon which a more complex 'orbital ellipse' would be plotted that could be like an oscillating spiral if sent far enough in either direction.  Plotted on whatever frame the normal orbits-cam uses (rotationally static to the stellar background, I think, but centred around the main orbital body) it might look strange[2], but as understandable by the experienced orbital navigator as existing "slingshot" orbit->moon encounter->moon-de-encounter->onwards tracks.

[2]
Spoiler: Thusly, without the annotation? (click to show/hide)
That's a perfectly closed path.  A slightly different trajectory would create a path that (for any given "currently at" point in the orbit) will deviate both prograde and retrograde legs of the 'orbit' by increasing amounts.  Maybe at some point breaking out into a different sphere of influence.  But even if it's tight enough that it stays within those bounds[3], the diametrically 'opposite' point in the orbit[4] could be a disconnection between the two equi-opposite 'leg-ends'.

[3] In that picture it might depend on no major Martian/Venusian-orbit planet finding itself assigned as more of an influence than the Earth is, as it transition via the long, far left side of that frame's horse-shoe, under my limited-but-N>1 influence scheme.  In fact, I'm not sure if this particularly extreme example would work under my proposed scheme...  But it'd be nice if it could!!!

[4] Imagining the tracked object is currently on the far left stretch (effectively retrograde, by that frame's standards, but celestially still prograde), the 'opposite' point on the orbit would actually be on the lower, sunwards, stretch, on exactly the same side.  Move the object position round one way and the equi-opposite point would (at a different speed) retreat in the other direction, of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 24, 2013, 01:40:19 pm
What is the advantage of Nuclear engines over normal ones?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: pilgrimboy on January 24, 2013, 01:50:30 pm
I was wondering if any of these features are currently in the game.

Take on Missions to attract interest in your Space Program. Or use the Mission Planner to create your own missions.
Manage your Space Program. Hire astronauts, train them, research and improve parts.
Build Space Stations, and surface bases on other worlds.

They are on the planned features. Do they keep that page updated?

I'm just wondering if KSP has moved into being a game rather than just a ship designer, launcher.

Really interested in it once it is developed a little more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 24, 2013, 02:06:34 pm
Well, there is a carreer option when creating a new save. Not sure if it does anything. I would find it frustrating to have limited money/stuff myself. And with mods there is tonnes of stuff to do, like map all the planets, build Kethane drilling whatevers everywhere...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 24, 2013, 02:13:54 pm
You can't choose it. The only option currently available is sandbox. All the carreer stuff hasn't been implemented yet.

And really, that one is worth it on it's own.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 24, 2013, 02:34:53 pm
how well douse hitting abort work?
besides none at all if you dont give it something...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 24, 2013, 02:55:11 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 24, 2013, 02:34:53 pm
how well douse hitting abort work?
besides none at all if you dont give it something...
Yeah, that's the point. The computer isn't smart enough to figure out what it needs to do to safe the Kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2013, 03:28:59 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on January 24, 2013, 02:55:11 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 24, 2013, 02:34:53 pm
how well douse hitting abort work?
besides none at all if you dont give it something...
Yeah, that's the point. The computer isn't smart enough to figure out what it needs to do to safe the Kerbals.

if you put:
chute
capsule + four/eight radial separatron pointed up
coupler

and set the coupler to open up and the separatron to fire as abort sequence you can outrun but the greatest explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2013, 03:33:07 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 24, 2013, 02:34:53 pm
how well douse hitting abort work?
besides none at all if you dont give it something...
Abort is just an action group. Put things in the 'abort' action group and it will fire when you click the abort button. You could put an escape tower or some solid boosters in the group, attached to your pod, combined with a decoupler, to detach and jet them away to safety when you hit the abort button

Quote from: miauw62 on January 24, 2013, 02:06:34 pm
Well, there is a carreer option when creating a new save. Not sure if it does anything. I would find it frustrating to have limited money/stuff myself. And with mods there is tonnes of stuff to do, like map all the planets, build Kethane drilling whatevers everywhere...
I would really enjoy a budget system with scientific or political objectives personally, as well as some sort of research/improvement system. Are there any mods which add in a budget/monetary system?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on January 24, 2013, 05:48:44 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 24, 2013, 01:40:19 pm
What is the advantage of Nuclear engines over normal ones?
They're a great deal more efficient than normal engines, iirc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on January 24, 2013, 08:52:31 pm
Quote from: Mini on January 24, 2013, 05:48:44 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 24, 2013, 01:40:19 pm
What is the advantage of Nuclear engines over normal ones?
They're a great deal more efficient than normal engines, iirc.

They're only really efficient in vacuum and their thrust is pretty low compared to other engines. However, because of their high efficiency, the total delta-v you can get from them is much greater. Good for interplanetary stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2013, 09:41:35 pm
Yep. I use 4 of them for my interplanetary transfers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: CosmicOsmo on January 24, 2013, 09:56:01 pm
Quote from: Karlito on January 24, 2013, 08:52:31 pm
They're only really efficient in vacuum and their thrust is pretty low compared to other engines. However, because of their high efficiency, the total delta-v you can get from them is much greater. Good for interplanetary stages.

Actually, the way the Isp equation works out, their Isp exceeds 400 at a Kerbin altitude of something like 2000 meters, making them already the most efficient rocket. Their real drawback is their low thrust and high weight, meaning they're only worth using when you've got a lot of fuel (so that the saved fuel weight due to using it more efficiently outweighs the higher engine weight) and a lot of time (so that you don't run out of time for your burn. Basically, that boils down to interplanetary usage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 26, 2013, 11:37:17 am
Well, I just got 0.18.2 recently. And I love it. Absolutely brilliant. However, this game is HARD. I nearly had an aneurysm trying to understand phase angles and escape trajectories and ugh. I've got it now. Usually my plan for orbiting was " POWERRRRRR " But I understand that now too. Anyway, I have KW Rocketry, the Kethane Pack, Novapunch, protractor and mechjeb. Does anyone know any other good mods?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 26, 2013, 01:37:11 pm
What, phase angles and calculating trajectories?
You don't really need to know that as far as I know. Just basic orbital mechanics. The effects of burning in the various relative directions, how prograde and retrograde work, nothing that really involves any maths.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 26, 2013, 01:37:41 pm
Though maths help. A bit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 26, 2013, 01:39:06 pm
the one I like to play most:

kerbal attachment system
mechjeb
orbital construction
docking struts
damned robotics
Control Authority from Off-Center Engines
airships
clever bobcat
Modular Multiwheels


another one which is kinda hard mode for planes but I play only sometimes:
ferram aereospace research
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 26, 2013, 01:40:34 pm
Not very much though.
Especially with the maneuver planner now, calculating how much to burn isn't really worth it when you can just fiddle with a maneuver node until it's lined up right, then just follow the blue marker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 05:19:25 am
Fuck yeah, ~20 dead Kerbals and a whole lot of explosions later, I finally managed to rendezvous my nuclear engines + fuel spaceship to my core space station. I would never have managed to do this without MechJeb though :P

The main point of adding those engines to the station is to save one of the two initial Kerbonauts who is orbiting Kerbal on his own >.<. Obviously, Kerbal lives only have value in space, so those 20 dead ones are well worth it.

PS: Is there actually a point using manned spacecraft besides 'cool'?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 05:25:53 am
Proble shut down without electricity!
And control pods have a small amount of SAS iirc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 29, 2013, 07:03:41 am
So, 0.19 is going to have better drag all round, including reentry heat, supposedly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 07:07:25 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 05:25:53 am
Proble shut down without electricity!
But solar panels create a huge amount of energy... Even if I only use one (I have five, as one crashed during docking) I can recharge my energy in a matter of minutes, and that is with my (completely pointless) lights turned on!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RulerOfNothing on January 29, 2013, 07:14:38 am
Well, probes can't do EVAs, if you care about that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 07:46:26 am
Quote from: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 07:07:25 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 05:25:53 am
Proble shut down without electricity!
But solar panels create a huge amount of energy... Even if I only use one (I have five, as one crashed during docking) I can recharge my energy in a matter of minutes, and that is with my (completely pointless) lights turned on!
Also, a single thermoelectric generator will more than provide for your probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 11:38:26 am
Is there a way to turn off stages?

edit: After almost two days of lonely orbit, I decided <whateverhisnameis> should probably get back in the spacecraft again.
Daamn, has anyone so far managed to get a Kerbal back in a spaceship? I could get quite close to him...
Spoiler: quite close (click to show/hide)
...but actually getting all of him inside, seems  lot harder. I give up for now, might try later. It's not like he has limited life support or anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 29, 2013, 12:24:38 pm
Reentry heat will probably greatly increase my lethality rate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 12:25:49 pm
Reentry? Seems like a waste of fuel to me :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 29, 2013, 01:20:51 pm
Getting Kerbals back in ships is easier than docking.
They control incredibly easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 01:24:02 pm
So, I'm currently sending a Kethane mining/processing facility and spacedock to the mun. In one go. I'm running on warp one and can't go above 30 m/s or the whole thing will collapse on itself.

i will rage immensely if i manage to mess this up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 01:26:12 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 29, 2013, 01:20:51 pm
Getting Kerbals back in ships is easier than docking.
They control incredibly easy.

Really? I found docking to be fairly easy, as you can just bump into the the space station and then you'll have equal speed. If you even touch the Kerbal a little it flies into all sorts of directions. I also never managed to steer my Kerbal into anything o_O. He just flaps around a little but but that's all >.>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 01:38:02 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 01:24:02 pm
So, I'm currently sending a Kethane mining/processing facility and spacedock to the mun. In one go. I'm running on warp one and can't go above 30 m/s or the whole thing will collapse on itself.

i will rage immensely if i manage to mess this up
As long as you finished accelerating, you could just warp x1000 until you get there... xD Torque and things are disabled in orbital warp.

Docking is very fun. Love it when you slide into place.
Kerbals are easy to maneuver. Just make sure your camera is set at a comfortable angle before pressing R, then use the translation controls to get where you want to go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 01:39:00 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 01:38:02 pm
pressing R
That explains a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 29, 2013, 01:46:55 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 01:39:00 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 01:38:02 pm
pressing R
That explains a lot.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff47/woolly_socks/David%20Tennant/Doctor%20Who/Twisty%20Face%20of%20Doom/304_Daleks_in_Manhattan_2.gif)
How do you miss the RCS packs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 29, 2013, 01:56:59 pm
Spacesuits have RCS packs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 02:00:06 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 29, 2013, 01:46:55 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 01:39:00 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on January 29, 2013, 01:38:02 pm
pressing R
That explains a lot.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff47/woolly_socks/David%20Tennant/Doctor%20Who/Twisty%20Face%20of%20Doom/304_Daleks_in_Manhattan_2.gif)
How do you miss the RCS packs?
The game never tells you the Kerbs have jetpacks...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 29, 2013, 02:05:09 pm
there is a lot of essential stuff that the game doesn't tell, like how the docking control automation works or that your stages are locked after getting back into orbital mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 29, 2013, 02:08:01 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 29, 2013, 02:05:09 pm
there is a lot of essential stuff that the game doesn't tell, like how the docking control automation works or that your stages are locked after getting back into orbital mode.
I think what you mean is the situation where I'm time warping and baffled because I can't turn my ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 29, 2013, 02:12:58 pm
I am pretty sure I meant what I meant  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 02:17:53 pm
(http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/alarma2.gif) ATTN: KERBAL SPACE ENGINEERING (http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/alarma2.gif)

We've got a problem. This hilariously unstable ship proved as sturdy as kerbally possible:

Spoiler: what a glorious landscape (click to show/hide)

I jacked all the leftover fuel (two orange tanks, with some left over) onto the primary station to save on Kethane, with one being brought with the stage for emergency purposes. Such as this. I managed to slow it down to ~4m/s using RCS, then it tumbled a bit - total damage to the craft is one small spare part storage, one communotron attached to it and some non-vital structures.

I sure as hell am not letting this >300 ton craft go to waste.

The resources you see are the only ones I have available, unless I am to try a daring mission to send a craft of some sort to add more storage (with the position of the only docking port however, this'd be pure pain). There are no Kerbals stranded, so this is purely for the glory of industrial engineering. There is a spaceport beacon attached right under the MechJeb pod, so if we really want to cheat we can send a vessel equipped with a jump drive there and wench, wench, and wench some more.

We're waiting here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 02:23:28 pm
Jumpdrive? Kethane? Spaceport Beacon?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 02:27:23 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 02:23:28 pm
Jumpdrive? Kethane? Spaceport Beacon?

In a joyride of ignorance, I have assumed that everyone uses the baystation12 modpack. (http://bit.ly/U8W2De)

Such cases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 04:06:12 pm
What other files do I need, besides those you linked? As the game now crashes after clicking the 'launch' button. :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 29, 2013, 04:17:47 pm
a clean save.
or a never-modded save.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 04:20:36 pm
Had both. But I'll try again I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on January 30, 2013, 06:22:36 am
Tried my hand at docking...

Spoiler: NOOOOooooooo...... my Monopropellant! *drifts into the distance* (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Attempt 2: Moving into position (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: WHY WONT YOU CONNECT DAMNIT (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Success! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 30, 2013, 01:21:45 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 02:27:23 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 29, 2013, 02:23:28 pm
Jumpdrive? Kethane? Spaceport Beacon?

In a joyride of ignorance, I have assumed that everyone uses the baystation12 modpack. (http://bit.ly/U8W2De)

Such cases.

After clicking that link, even a clean KSP install now crashes.

I blame internet Voodoo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 30, 2013, 01:26:25 pm
Strange.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 30, 2013, 02:41:50 pm
Now I think about it, I also moved the KSP folder from my Dropbox folder to my External Harddrive. That should not be a problem though, but it is worth a try.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 30, 2013, 08:17:03 pm
External harddrives are slow >.> They're capped by the USB transfer speed, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 30, 2013, 09:22:24 pm
yeah it is a shame that we have usb3.0 since 2008 and most laptop still doesn't support it.

at least you can find some decent usb key and usb ssd that supports it by now, but still the market as lot of usb2.0 junk around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 30, 2013, 09:32:30 pm
Well, an article I found says that 3.0 really hasn't been in the market until 2011...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 31, 2013, 01:38:15 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 02:17:53 pm
(http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/alarma2.gif) ATTN: KERBAL SPACE ENGINEERING (http://whomurderedrobertwone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/alarma2.gif)

We've got a problem. This hilariously unstable ship proved as sturdy as kerbally possible:

Spoiler: what a glorious landscape (click to show/hide)

I jacked all the leftover fuel (two orange tanks, with some left over) onto the primary station to save on Kethane, with one being brought with the stage for emergency purposes. Such as this. I managed to slow it down to ~4m/s using RCS, then it tumbled a bit - total damage to the craft is one small spare part storage, one communotron attached to it and some non-vital structures.

I sure as hell am not letting this >300 ton craft go to waste.

The resources you see are the only ones I have available, unless I am to try a daring mission to send a craft of some sort to add more storage (with the position of the only docking port however, this'd be pure pain). There are no Kerbals stranded, so this is purely for the glory of industrial engineering. There is a spaceport beacon attached right under the MechJeb pod, so if we really want to cheat we can send a vessel equipped with a jump drive there and wench, wench, and wench some more.

We're waiting here.

How the fuck did you get so many spare parts onto the Mun!?

let's see yer launch ship!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 03:49:58 pm
What the...

After hours of manoeuvring, my mapping module was finally going to dock with my core station. It almost missed the docking part though (I am never going to use RCS again), it's magnet thingie triggered.

After 10 seconds of fucking around it crashed into the core and exploded. Seriously? >.<

Yay for save scumming I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 31, 2013, 05:58:28 pm
How are you goingto dock without RCS? D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 06:34:07 pm
You dock with RCS? I couldn't actually go forward or backward with it. I can turn every possible direction, but I cannot gain or lose speed relative to the thing I am targeting.

How I dock:
I just increase speed (pointing at target) until I will get in within ~100 meters of target, wait until I am that close, than decrease my speed to 0m/s relative to the target. I do this another time but up to 10 meters to the target, and than I target the docking port and increase speed to 1m/s.

MechJeb is used with pretty much everything in there :P. Obviously, this all is after I get within a few kilometres in a similar orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2013, 06:49:12 pm
My main problem using rocket engines in docking is that they can push the target away inducing dangerous spin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 07:05:32 pm
That is why you should do it slowly.

I guess. It's not like I've done this more than two times :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2013, 07:10:35 pm
I've never had a problem with using RCS, even on heavy craft, so long as you place ENOUGH RCS clusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 07:20:22 pm
Same for me, except that I do not have problems when I do not place any at all :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 31, 2013, 07:27:17 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 06:34:07 pm
You dock with RCS? I couldn't actually go forward or backward with it. I can turn every possible direction, but I cannot gain or lose speed relative to the thing I am targeting.

How I dock:
I just increase speed (pointing at target) until I will get in within ~100 meters of target, wait until I am that close, than decrease my speed to 0m/s relative to the target. I do this another time but up to 10 meters to the target, and than I target the docking port and increase speed to 1m/s.

MechJeb is used with pretty much everything in there :P. Obviously, this all is after I get within a few kilometres in a similar orbit.

.... Docking is supposed to be done with RCS O_O

You use space mode, right? WASD QE are rotational controls.
JKLI are translational controls, left down right up. Aaaand... HN are forwards/backwards. :D

The problem with rockets is this:
1, they push your target away.
2, they're extremely powerful.
3, if you miss, you're going to smash into your target and aslopdify it at worst, bump it into a spin at best, or break something on average.
4, theoretically rocket exhaust damages parts.

Usually, I use RCS once I get within 500 meters of my target. RCS is really powerful :P 3 sets of 4 RCS thrusters provided 0.1 m/s/s acceleration on a 150 ton rocket, or nearly 15 tons of force. O_o

/me shakes fist at Mechjeb
Darned mechjeb, depriving aspiring kerbalnauts of skills! D:<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 07:37:45 pm
Those points are invalid if you go <1m/s. And why would you aim your engine exhaust into the other spaceship..?

But I did not know there were buttons for RCS other than WASDQE xD. Not that it matters, the way I do it right now works fine. No need to add some parts which will only be used for docking >.<.


And about MechJeb... I can't even achieve an orbit without it. MechJeb > Skills :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on January 31, 2013, 07:50:15 pm
See? Mechjeb is making you dependent on it D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 07:54:17 pm
Okay okay. My next module will be done without MechJeb and with RCS thrusters. Gotta stay open-minded :P.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on January 31, 2013, 08:40:14 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 31, 2013, 07:37:45 pm
And about MechJeb... I can't even achieve an orbit without it. MechJeb > Skills :P

That's something I just don't get about this game.  It's hard sure, but I'm sorry, I can't even imagine it being that hard to grasp.

Build a rocket with a few jumbo tanks and engines.  Hit the go button and stay around two-thirds throttle.  When you're doing 500-800 m/s at around 40000 meters, begin turning right.  Bring up the orbit map, bring up the navball in the orbit map (if you don't want to do it the old-fashioned way) to make sure you stay in a straight line, and keep going at at curve somewhere between the yellow "target" reticule and the horizon.  When you see the top of your projected arc at about the altitude you want (anything over 100k is good), point your navball dead at the horizon or a little under it and continue watching the orbit tracker.  When you see the Periapsis above 100k you're in good shape, when you see it and the Apoapsis flip position, you're golden.

There ya go, achieving orbit made simple.  Now, doing anything else (let get down) is another matter, but if you can master orbiting freehand, you're well on your way to almost anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 31, 2013, 08:46:35 pm
I can orbit fine, though I do have a problem getting any further than the Mun, maybe Minmus.
I always end up building something too big and it breaks apart some time during launch, or alternatively is so large and inefficient that it can't actually make orbit.

I would utilise docking, but I usually forget RCS because I never use it normally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on January 31, 2013, 08:54:28 pm
Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 31, 2013, 08:55:09 pm
I make ugly-ass rockets, but the rockets I make to get to the moon can make it all the way to eve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 31, 2013, 08:56:00 pm
Quote from: alexandertnt on January 31, 2013, 08:54:28 pm
Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
It's no particular single design, it just happens consistently.

And there's only so many places you can fit struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 31, 2013, 08:57:52 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 31, 2013, 08:56:00 pm
Quote from: alexandertnt on January 31, 2013, 08:54:28 pm
Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

I can tell you now that this is wrong

if you run out of places, add some fuel tanks and connect struts to those
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on January 31, 2013, 09:16:08 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 31, 2013, 08:56:00 pm
It's no particular single design, it just happens consistently.

And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

If it is still structually unstable, you should add struts until it looks like it has been infested by giant cave spiders. Go crazy.

You can also use the stronger struts from the KW rocketry pack that will allow you to use less of them. It also helps performance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on January 31, 2013, 10:11:32 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 31, 2013, 08:56:00 pm
And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

If you're having difficulties putting struts into seemingly 'internal' areas of structure, e.g. if you have wobbly side-nacelles, such as in the following design with "=" decouplers near the top...
.   A
.   =
. H=H=H
. H H H  A set of two, three, four, six or
. H H H  (for smaller diameter outer tank-stacks
. H H H   around a larger central stack) eight
. H H H  external boosters attached to
. H H H  the core,...
. ^ ^ ^

..then you may find there's a distinct wobble at the bottom end that causes chaos and fiery, fiery death.  But even if you're using the tightest of packings (six similarly-sized stack diameters around a core, or eight smaller ones around a larger one), you should be able to easily zoom-in and rotate in such a way that you can get a strut started on the core adjacent to the side-stack and then attempt to put the terminating end on the outside of that stack, and it will connect to (roughly) the adjacent bit of the inside, where it's difficult (although often still not impossible) to directly place it.

It doesn't have to be exact, though.  Also, sending struts from the mid-way point on the central stack (that is clearly visible) in the gap between adjacent external stacks) to both those adjacent stacks is a very solid proposition.

I don't have any handy images at hand of (past) creations, but struts are just so easy to place that sometimes I feel I've gone overboard.

(But, especially when my staging is set up to eject 'partial shells' of outer stacks at a time (opposing pairs in each instance, for balance), with more than one external shell, it is absolutely vital that at each stage the boosters that remain are solidly strutted every-which-way.  If you (as a quick example of the principle) set up a swastika-like arrangement of boosters-on-boosters-on-core then you'll get rotation kicking in, unless you prevent the outermost boosters from forcing the inner-boosters to rotate slightly with their connection.  It is perfectly possible to build a craft that discards successive boosters that has a very tightly-knit strut-structure.

      Detatching links                Fully strutted links
            4---5---6                         4---5---6            (As well as
           / \   \ /|                        /|\ /|\ /|\            long vertical
          3---8---9 | 1                     3-+-8-+-9-+-1           links "|", also
         /   / \ /  |/ \                   /|\|/|\|/|\|/|\          long diagonals
        2---7---O---7---2                 2-+-7-+-O-+-7-+-2         e.g. between
         \ /|  / \ /   /                   \|/|\|/|\|/|\|/          0 and 3 or
          1 | 9---8---3                     1-+-9-+-8-+-3           6 and 8.)
            |/ \   \ /                       \|/ \|/ \|/
            6---5---4                         6---5---4



(Also showing most of the fuel links along each 1->2->3->4...etc->0 spiral, to feed early-drop booster-stacks' fuel contents into the next most expendable fuel-stack along the line, to keep every engine (all started at stage 1) burning bright as long as possible.)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronyOwl on February 01, 2013, 12:59:27 am
So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on February 01, 2013, 06:03:00 am
Quote from: IronyOwl on February 01, 2013, 12:59:27 am
So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.

Whenever a bell rings, it means another person has figured out that orbit does not mean up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on February 01, 2013, 06:31:45 am
Quote from: IronyOwl on February 01, 2013, 12:59:27 am
So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.

The newer version makes everything much easier - it provides lots of visual tools for what's happening. Tons of useful! I know it's getting more expensive, but it really is worth getting at this point. Just the addition of docking has blown my mind from the sheer number of things you can do. And I haven't even gotten to modding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on February 01, 2013, 06:54:01 am
How do you keep rockets from falling over during ascent without MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. :c?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 01, 2013, 07:06:43 am
Quote from: Dutchling on February 01, 2013, 06:54:01 am
How do you keep rockets from falling over during ascent without MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. :c?
You steer...

use SAS modules or fins to increase your ability to turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on February 01, 2013, 07:28:11 am
Also ASAS, if keeping steady manually is too much work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 01, 2013, 07:32:56 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on February 01, 2013, 06:31:45 am
The newer version makes everything much easier - it provides lots of visual tools for what's happening. Tons of useful! I know it's getting more expensive, but it really is worth getting at this point. Just the addition of docking has blown my mind from the sheer number of things you can do. And I haven't even gotten to modding.
The above so much. O_O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Starver on February 01, 2013, 02:25:05 pm
For my stability handling:

Below the in-line capsule-detatcher (last stage) I put a SAS.  Atop either all or half of any further stages (whether in-line, or side-mounted, and depending on what I plan to junk and when during the staging process) I put a SAS.  An ASAS somewhere in the mix helps, I suppose.  (And I'm talking standard parts only, here.)

Press E before igniting, and you're bound to stay pointing straight up as long as you want.  (Even, if you forget to stage or haven't provided enough thrust, while rapidly falling back down tail-first.  Sometimes the exploding stack below has successfully 'buffered' the capsule and let it land safely, but that's never been part of my plan. ;))  But, anyway, my setup generally would keep the launch going straight up as long as I wish.  I've built rockets powerful enough, with configurations such as already described in ASCII, that a well-timed launch gets me into a decent solar orbit by just going straight past Mun's orbit.  In fact, once it was straight past Mun, (in and out of its influence, with a hardly curving orbital segment whilst flying through the sphere of influence), skimming that particular hunk of rock.  But that was probably overkill in all respects (except for the "kill" part, they'd probably be drifting still, if I'd let 'em).


For an orbit, however, I tend to wait until exiting the lower-coloured layer of atmosphere, on the gauge, disengage SAS for a moment and touch the controls to allow the heading to 'fall' over onto the 270 degree (or 90 degree!) mark maybe 15 degrees off of verticalm before re-establishing SAS's attempt to hold.  Depending on the ship design, natural forces may force it further down, so I may adjust back to a more vertical angle of attempt.  As it gets higher (and this bit I consider more an art than a science) I disengage for a few moments and allow it to lay flatter and flatter (sometimes needs a bit of control, but generally while continue its declination for the few moments I allow it), but I like to get it out of all atmosphere altogether before taking it down to more than 45 degrees from vertical/less than that to the horizontal.

Of course, controlling the ship from the orbit POV screen (with the horizonball controll up, so that you can both see what it's doing and re-aim it, to whatever extent you actually can) is a useful thing to do, although I do like to see it from the ship-cam perspective to keep an eye on the structure, see when stages are defuelled, etc, so switching back and forth is quite common at this stage of the game.

Once in the 'black' part of the atmosphere gauge, it's a matter of fine-tuning to get a totally non-atmospheric track.  It may be a matter of heaving the craft to horizontal and thrusting as much as possible, it's sometimes even a matter of aiming down between 0 and 30 degrees and thrusting to one degree or another, to try and convert some unwanted rising component of a super-orbital parabola into a largely 'horizontal' component of usefully non-atmosphere-skimming orbit.

But I know there are better ways of doing it.  However, my failures to achieve orbit (or surpass it, if that's the plan/accident) tend to be structural failure issues (rare, given the strutting, unless I've overloaded some connector on the pad itself) or just forgetting to make sure there's all the engines/fuel that I want in the first few stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on February 01, 2013, 03:33:29 pm
I don't know where it's going, but it's not getting there any time soon.
(http://i.imgur.com/bpoXJ8bs.png) (http://imgur.com/bpoXJ8b.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on February 01, 2013, 04:37:41 pm
Damn it, I should not have updated from 0.17 to 0.18... I thought the vehicle assembly was finicky before but now... damn some times it is near impossible to actually attach something to something else. Hopefully I still have the old zip with 0.17 somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on February 01, 2013, 04:47:40 pm
Quote from: Aptus on February 01, 2013, 04:37:41 pm
Damn it, I should not have updated from 0.17 to 0.18... I thought the vehicle assembly was finicky before but now... damn some times it is near impossible to actually attach something to something else. Hopefully I still have the old zip with 0.17 somewhere.

Are you crazy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on February 01, 2013, 06:50:58 pm
Vehicle assembly seems to works identically to earlier versions for me. Maby its some sort of bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 01, 2013, 07:01:35 pm
Try turning the part around with WASDQE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronyOwl on February 01, 2013, 07:03:20 pm
I am waaaaaaaay too busy to be buying the full version of this, but I did anyway.

...this is a lot of options.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on February 02, 2013, 02:20:28 am
Quote from: DrPoo on February 01, 2013, 04:47:40 pm
Quote from: Aptus on February 01, 2013, 04:37:41 pm
Damn it, I should not have updated from 0.17 to 0.18... I thought the vehicle assembly was finicky before but now... damn some times it is near impossible to actually attach something to something else. Hopefully I still have the old zip with 0.17 somewhere.

Are you crazy?

Maybe I am, but I am having serious issues building even a small rocket now compared to in 0.17. I'll try redownloading 0.18 again, maybe something got weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on February 02, 2013, 06:07:14 am
Quote from: greatorder on February 01, 2013, 04:24:03 pm
Quote from: Leonon on February 01, 2013, 03:33:29 pm
I don't know where it's going, but it's not getting there any time soon.
(http://i.imgur.com/bpoXJ8bs.png) (http://imgur.com/bpoXJ8b.png)
Ion thruster...

You mad fool!
Ion thrusters need to be allowed to work during time warp. Then they might actually be useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 02, 2013, 07:07:57 am
Quote from: Aptus on February 02, 2013, 02:20:28 am
Quote from: DrPoo on February 01, 2013, 04:47:40 pm
Quote from: Aptus on February 01, 2013, 04:37:41 pm
Damn it, I should not have updated from 0.17 to 0.18... I thought the vehicle assembly was finicky before but now... damn some times it is near impossible to actually attach something to something else. Hopefully I still have the old zip with 0.17 somewhere.

Are you crazy?

Maybe I am, but I am having serious issues building even a small rocket now compared to in 0.17. I'll try redownloading 0.18 again, maybe something got weird.
Try restarting your game. I had an issue where I couldn't attach anything too. And fuel tanks on top of other fuel tanks nearly never works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on February 02, 2013, 07:18:18 am
Quote from: Graknorke on February 02, 2013, 06:07:14 am
Ion thrusters need to be allowed to work during time warp. Then they might actually be useful.

There is active time warp, allowing you to time warp up to 5x while accelerating. I think you access it with the period key (or alt-period, I forget).

It is pretty much a requirement for ion thrusters, but it can piss off the space kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on February 02, 2013, 07:26:47 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on February 02, 2013, 07:18:18 am
I think you access it with the period key (or alt-period, I forget).
IIRC by default it's the same button as normal time warp, except with a modifier key (probably alt).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on February 02, 2013, 08:28:07 am
Yup. It's Alt. And it only goes to 4X, not 5X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aptus on February 02, 2013, 10:33:06 am
Redownloading KSP seems to have fixed the issue, now it is back to the normal level of fidgeting to get the pieces where I want em :p Currently working on my biggest and most complex craft yet, have so far had successful tests of the lander and it achieves orbit easily enough. Trying to be super careful with this one, actually testing it for each new part I add so I don't have to debug an entire mess at once this time hah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on February 02, 2013, 01:21:13 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on February 02, 2013, 06:07:14 am
Ion thrusters need to be allowed to work during time warp. Then they might actually be useful.
I just left the game running and did other things. One thing I would like would be to be able to do would be to use fuel ducts to do the outer->inner fuel+engine setup with ion engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 02, 2013, 06:36:34 pm
Quote from: ank on January 31, 2013, 01:38:15 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on January 29, 2013, 02:17:53 pm
-selfsnip-

How the fuck did you get so many spare parts onto the Mun!?

let's see yer launch ship!

I've stalled that for long enough.

Spoiler: Say hello to the GIGALIFTER (click to show/hide)

You do have to attach a docking device to the rocket's core before putting it on the launch pad, and then you need to use a different cargo rocket to grab the payload and put it on the hauler, then strut gun everything together, and carefully steer it until you're out of atmos (Armok help you if you try to rush it) but this beast will get everything into orbit with slight modifications.

The blank box you can see on the part staging thingy is the enormous engine. It's burn rate is something 700, go figure. As a side note, I've listened to this while building it. (http://www.youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=Bp_cRHmWXBo)

E: MechJeb refuses to acknowledge the giant engine's thrust, probably something with the configs. Do go ahead and add 22kN to the stats you have in the first pic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 02, 2013, 08:11:08 pm
Gosh. Just use hyperedit to instantly warp into orbit. That engine is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on February 02, 2013, 09:02:41 pm
It looks like an Orion engine.

Why hasn't somebody made an Orion engine yet?  I wonder if KSP could even emulate such a thing at current.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 02, 2013, 09:19:11 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 02, 2013, 09:12:39 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on February 02, 2013, 09:02:41 pm
It looks like an Orion engine.

Why hasn't somebody made an Orion engine yet?  I wonder if KSP could even emulate such a thing at current.
Given how explosions can propel you ever so slightly...

I guess if it's possible, you could make a device that, when triggered (or when it collides), would explode, producing a lot of energy.

I have been looking into that, actually. A small sphere that is activated just like an engine, producing a ridiculous amount of heat and exploding of overheating. The main problem is that you can't really influence explosion sizes using the config files, and I'd be hard pressed to figure out a way to a) absorb the energy efficiently (without destroying something vital in the process) and b) make it reusable. I thought of making a separate resource, and then some kind of spawner like they have in the orbital construction mod to deploy bombspheres, but that's far beyond my level of understanding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on February 09, 2013, 09:13:14 pm
So, after staring at Jool for a few weeks, (maneuvering the rescue mothership into a 5MKm parking orbit around kerbin) it was time for jeb to jump back into the SSTO space plane and head back up for an orbital rendezvous with the mother ship orbiting laythe. Timing it so that the orbital planes of were lined up quite well (mothership is in a 45 degree to the equator circular orbit and I don't have the fuel to fix that), I launched. 12km is the 20km of kerbins atmosphere, for those wondering, luckily there was only a slight spin as one of the engines flamed out.

After some orbital maneuvers (minor plane change) and catchup, I set up the rendezvous. Once I was about 300m from the mothership I started killing speed difference, until it was down to 10m/s... and I ran out of fuel. Man that's what I call cutting it close. Jeb was able to EVA it over to the mothership, so now they're all going to sit there for a year until the rescue ship arrives, hopefully with enough fuel to actually get back this time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 11, 2013, 06:17:14 pm
With some mod i made this ship, im quite proud of my design, specialy when i usualy never do anything that look remotly interesting, but this one im kinda proud :D. 10 lander, one satelitte for Mapping and another satelitte for kethane mapping.

This is basicly a ship i send to a planet before sending the colony ship, this one goes, Map the planet and scan for kethane, if interesting points are found i send a lander, once all point of interest are *occupied* i send the remaining probe to possible kethane location and try to find a nice place to establish my colony location. Now i have to work on my colony ship.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hope you enjoy it :D. BTW im using a shitload of mod would take forever to list them all, but if you are really interested i could try to list all mod im using for this ship and post the ship file.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on February 11, 2013, 06:30:04 pm
That does look quite nice.

One of these days I'll actually get around to installing some mods...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 11, 2013, 06:36:00 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on February 11, 2013, 06:30:04 pm
That does look quite nice.

One of these days I'll actually get around to installing some mods...

I think ill just update my whole game folder ( related to mod mind you, wont give the game away... ) so you guys will only have to drag/drop it in your folder and overwrite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 11, 2013, 06:38:45 pm
That's more or less what I did with my modpack, but I didn't include the fusion mod you have there because I consider it rather overpowered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 11, 2013, 06:52:51 pm
Well when you make big ships, you need something that can come with it, i use it only on *capital ship*. Also after zipping up all the folder relate to the mods... it now weight 370meg... quite heavy. Unless someone knows a really good host i think ill have to abandon this sharing XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 11, 2013, 08:25:11 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on February 11, 2013, 06:52:51 pm
Well when you make big ships, you need something that can come with it, i use it only on *capital ship*. Also after zipping up all the folder relate to the mods... it now weight 370meg... quite heavy. Unless someone knows a really good host i think ill have to abandon this sharing XD
Can you give me a list of the mods with links? I'll assemble and host the pack for you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 12, 2013, 12:44:42 am
Dx I always wish I could make pretty ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 12, 2013, 05:05:38 am
Ive setup my personal FTP to host the modpack i currently have, i dont know how long i will be able to keep it online, it will depends on how popular it will be. I would really appreciate it if somebody could make a mirror for the pack.

ftp://jocan2003.serveftp.com

copy paste that in your browser and you should see an archive file called KSPMOD.rar. Be warned its a very heavy file, make sure you have a good internet connection. And unless i have more than downloading the pack at the same time, i should be able to send as fast as you can receive. Once you have the archive file, simply extract into your kerbal space program folder and overwrite files if asked.

Love having a 50mbps upload speed and a 250mbps download speed.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2503269922.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

And want to know the funny thing? cost me 80$ for unlimited plan.... Hard to beat that :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 12, 2013, 07:02:09 am
Link no workey
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 12, 2013, 07:02:40 am
Yeah give me a minute i just had the error pop up on my console.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 12, 2013, 07:03:32 am
I'd still like a list of the mods as well
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 12, 2013, 07:35:09 am
FTP is fixed, have fun guys. Or you could wait on forsaken, i think he will work on a more balanced modpack based on the one im currently using.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on February 13, 2013, 08:31:39 am
Good news!, the KSP got a new demo - 0.18.3, witch is ironically higher version than current full release :P (full version 0.18.3 is to be released soon, and then 0.19 YAY)

The demo has some hard limitations, so it kind of close to what 0.13 has in of parts and celestial bodies to visit. And while it's possible to launch up to 3 flights, we don't get docking parts (bummer).
More importantly it seems to use new Unity 4 engine, so there should be increase in performance. (i got around 20-25% more FPS on an old C2D 3,33Ghz (OC) compared to 0.18.2)

Devpost:http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/42955050444/new-ksp-demo-out-now (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/42955050444/new-ksp-demo-out-now) and link to download page: https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php (https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2013, 08:32:52 am
Very nice. Hoping for the full version release soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 13, 2013, 08:59:55 am
Quote from: Nao on February 13, 2013, 08:31:39 am
Good news!, the KSP got a new demo - 0.18.3

Well i just went to the link you showed... it says it based on the 18.2 version o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 13, 2013, 09:04:35 am
Aww, but docking is one of the best parts!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on February 13, 2013, 11:03:43 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on February 13, 2013, 08:59:55 am
Quote from: Nao on February 13, 2013, 08:31:39 am
Good news!, the KSP got a new demo - 0.18.3

Well i just went to the link you showed... it says it based on the 18.2 version o.O
Yeah it got me confused too. It says 0.18.3 when you launch the demo, the devs probably meant that content is based on 0.18.2. But since the unity 4 change and some other tweaks and fixes like new font, lack of .craft compatibility make the demo somewhat different from 0.18.2.

edit: made things less gibberish ... damn i need to sleep :( can't think straight, but at least i managed to rebuild my coaxial rotor in 0.18, Eve ascent under 50tons here i come.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 15, 2013, 01:55:57 pm
I'm surprised it even starts, since it has been discontinued (for the greater good I'd say)

only full downloads for the time being.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2013, 01:59:07 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on February 13, 2013, 09:04:35 am
Aww, but docking is one of the best parts!
Hence the term "demo".

And as LoS said, you need to fully redownload it. They are working on a better patcher, apparantly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 15, 2013, 01:59:44 pm
The patcher is royally borked.

If you want to keep your saves, manually remove your game save folders from the saves folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2013, 02:55:53 pm
Managed to find something that eliminates the evil, rocket-eating, family-murdering entity that is the launch tower. Now the Sierpinski can finally launch.

E: The Sierpinski is having some problems. By that I mean that half of the plane randomly explodes mid-flight.

E3: All of my fucking-tall-cilinder-with-6-symmetry-mode model of rockets have this problem.

E3: Just some debris passing trough the crusts of kerbin, nothing to worry about here.
(http://i.imgur.com/QwXpKGO.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 16, 2013, 09:36:50 am
Quote from: greatorder on February 16, 2013, 09:33:17 am
Been about 2 months...

And I still can't dock.
I'd probably find it easier if they kept the damned purple marker throughout, but it decides the best course of action is to fucking disappear once you're within 25KM, meaning I have NO FUCKING CLUE where to point my fucking ship!

Jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with this fucking docking!? I always overshoot, undershoot, or the game decides to throw some shit in my face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on February 16, 2013, 08:08:48 pm
Spoiler: I wonder if this will work... (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Uh oh (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 16, 2013, 08:13:54 pm
needs more struts
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2013, 08:17:25 pm
you know what you want to do with that, right
(http://i.imgur.com/8jw7a.gif)
you wanna put a strut on it



oh and it doesn't have enough engines but still i suggest struts
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 16, 2013, 08:36:21 pm
I am attempting to build a floating city in the Ocean with docking ports! Since I am horribly incompetent at docking in space.

AND IT IS DIFFICULT.

No success so far. Managed to get something in the water without exploding, but it flipped over. Attempting to use its engines severely angered the lag gods. You have been warned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 16, 2013, 08:54:33 pm
Floating, as in floating in the water of the Ocean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 16, 2013, 08:59:22 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 16, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
You realise you can't leave ships around in atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 16, 2013, 09:05:47 pm
If they're in water they're considered 'splashed down' and can be left there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on February 16, 2013, 09:17:09 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 16, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
You realise you can't leave ships around in atmosphere?
Pretty sure you can, unless that changed recently. I left a plane on the ground of Kerbin and it's still just sitting there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 16, 2013, 09:19:48 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on February 16, 2013, 08:36:21 pm
I am attempting to build a floating city in the Ocean with docking ports! Since I am horribly incompetent at docking in space.

AND IT IS DIFFICULT.

No success so far. Managed to get something in the water without exploding, but it flipped over. Attempting to use its engines severely angered the lag gods. You have been warned.
Have you tried using boat parts?

http://kerbalspaceport.com/boat-parts-0-18-2/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gunner-Chan on February 16, 2013, 09:25:41 pm
Quote from: Sirus on February 16, 2013, 09:17:09 pm
Quote from: greatorder on February 16, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
You realise you can't leave ships around in atmosphere?
Pretty sure you can, unless that changed recently. I left a plane on the ground of Kerbin and it's still just sitting there.

The trick here is you can leave whatever you want for the most part. So long as it's not currently in air. If it's in the air and has to be simulated interacting with the atmosphere it will automatically end that flight after you're about 2km away from it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 16, 2013, 10:23:05 pm
Spoiler: Bep boop beep (click to show/hide)

Floating City/ Sea Colony/ Ocean Colony/ Core has been deployed

I am afraid to see what happens if I press 'g'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on February 17, 2013, 02:48:41 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2013, 08:17:25 pm
oh and it doesn't have enough engines but still i suggest struts

But the editor and the game already run insanely slow (~1fps)...
Besides, if I put anymore struts on it, it will implode under its own gravity and start undergoing nuclear fusion :P



I tried to make a rocket with those tiny liquid fuel engines alone.

Spoiler: This was the result. It does not crash, it bounces. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on February 17, 2013, 11:26:23 am
I have a small question, maybe someone will happen to know the answer. Is there a way using stock parts to build a submarine, that would dive without the use of downward thrust ? (and stay in water on its own)
I tried many different parts but they all float. I remember i read somewhere that somebody did stock submarine some time ago, can't find it anywhere thou.

Also a tip about making a floating city, during a regatta challenge I've found that the best ratio of volume to mass (and thus drag if speed is needed) have ram intakes, managed to get 300m/s with basic jets on water with them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 17, 2013, 12:07:38 pm
Unfortunately, I think not.

Because at this point, there isn't even a real sea, it's only puddle deep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on February 17, 2013, 12:16:38 pm
I've seen a video with a "submarine". It took a lot of downward thrust to keep it below water, but it actually went pretty deep. You might be able to make something neutrally buoyant by modding the parts to be extremely heavy but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 17, 2013, 12:25:44 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on February 17, 2013, 12:16:38 pm
I've seen a video with a "submarine". It took a lot of downward thrust to keep it below water, but it actually went pretty deep. You might be able to make something neutrally buoyant by modding the parts to be extremely heavy but I'm not sure.
Depending on how they implemented it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 17, 2013, 12:58:10 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on February 17, 2013, 12:25:44 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on February 17, 2013, 12:16:38 pm
I've seen a video with a "submarine". It took a lot of downward thrust to keep it below water, but it actually went pretty deep. You might be able to make something neutrally buoyant by modding the parts to be extremely heavy but I'm not sure.
Depending on how they implemented it.
I bet you could do something like this with a part like the airship parts but flipping it to negative buoyancy. It works very well for those.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 17, 2013, 02:46:01 pm
Spoiler:  Ocean Based Docking success. (click to show/hide)
The Colony now has a Power Wing.

As you can probably tell, it's using the same ship as the core for the Power Wing, just modified. I was going to dock this completely differently, but I needed a different pod to do  so. So I build a similar ship and sent it to the core, but the port was too high up to dock with the core. So it seems any attachments I make will have to be modified cores.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 17, 2013, 03:17:07 pm
You could always used Damned Robotics or the Kerbal Attachment System (or both) to make adjustable docking ports.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 17, 2013, 03:51:11 pm
I'm likely going to do this entire thing vanilla.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on February 17, 2013, 03:51:58 pm
What are the lander struts for?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 17, 2013, 04:12:54 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on February 17, 2013, 03:51:58 pm
What are the lander struts for?
Stabilizing, I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 17, 2013, 04:54:15 pm
The origin of the front strut set was to catch the craft as it fell off the tiny ledge of the runway (Surprisingly deadly little spot.). The others came along in later iterations with the intent of water stabilization.

I have no idea if they do anything, I'm too afraid to press 'g'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on February 17, 2013, 05:07:33 pm
I doubt anything. Last time I used gears in the water nothing happened, probably because gears have the same CoM (confirmation?) whether they are extended or not. Try quicksaving and doing it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on February 18, 2013, 06:20:42 am
I finally sent a rescue mission to laythe and returned with my 6 kerbals who landed on the surface. Pretty crazy mission all up when you think about it. Flying to the Jool system with the lander and plane, 2 landing, re-orbits and rendezvous, sending another ship to the Jool system, rendezvous with the original ship in orbit around laythe, then flying all the way back to kerbin, capture of the ship and circuliarzation of it on a Low orbit for future reuse.

Edit: some Pictures
Rendezvous with the original mother ship in laythe orbit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Saying goodbye to Jool on the way home
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Saying hello to kerbin!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The full team infront of "mockups" of the space plane and lander that landed on Laythe. On the left is Jeb in-front of his SSTO space plane. The next 3 are the pilots of the original mother ship, and the next to the pilots of the rescue mother ship. On the right are bill and bob in-front of their lander that they used to Land on and return from the surface of Laythe with.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



All in all. while there was a lot of complexity to this mission, there wasn't anything particularly massive about it. Due to the fact that kerbals still require just a pod, with no lfiesupport or food, its pretty easy to send them on long trips. However given the fact I managed to send a SSTO and a Lander along with them on the first, albeit not powerful enough mothership, i'm confident that in future i could design a manned mission to Jool with whatever life support constraints imposed, but i'm not sure i could do one with 2 landers aswell, particularly with the new reentry heat and aerodynamics probably going to make such landing and ascent missions much, much harder in future.

Alternatively, setting up some sort of fuel processing base on Vall might be a good way to allow a smaller transfer craft to be used, and almost unlimited local exploration be done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on February 18, 2013, 10:00:01 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 17, 2013, 12:58:10 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on February 17, 2013, 12:25:44 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on February 17, 2013, 12:16:38 pm
I've seen a video with a "submarine". It took a lot of downward thrust to keep it below water, but it actually went pretty deep. You might be able to make something neutrally buoyant by modding the parts to be extremely heavy but I'm not sure.
Depending on how they implemented it.
I bet you could do something like this with a part like the airship parts but flipping it to negative buoyancy. It works very well for those.
Thanks! I've tested more stock parts and all of them float, and it seems that they float on Eve too :(. So i guess my idea to do stock exploration of Eve's oceans is out of the window :P.
I'll check the airship mod, and if everything else fails, there is hyper-edit with its "submarine" cheat.

As for the floating base, I remember rising and lowering landing gear in water doesn't do anything unfortunately, buoyancy and CoM seem to be constant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on February 19, 2013, 03:03:46 am
Any advice on getting the game to run better? I have a pretty decent system but get terrible speed and constant sound popping.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on February 19, 2013, 03:17:54 am
Did you drop your graphical settings down to their minimums yet? I'm not sure what out of game alterations there are other than changing the number of physics updates (which I may be mistaken about) and have no idea how to do them. Not much help but I hopefully, if correct on there being out of game changes, will prompt someone else to fill in the details :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 19, 2013, 10:36:34 am
Only slightly so, the renderer is detached from the main loo and that's it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 19, 2013, 10:49:17 am
I thought the renderer was just about sending instructions to the video card. o_O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 19, 2013, 10:52:49 am
The graphics card can't do everything, and it can't multithread by itself unless the renderer lets it. So the renderer being multithreaded does speed up rendering with a capable graphics card.

(that, or it was some business with tessellation. Either way, the CPU still has a good deal of say in rendering.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on February 20, 2013, 02:34:20 am
Simple answer: no.

not yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on February 20, 2013, 03:32:32 am
Im happy. For once my KSPing is getting good again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on February 20, 2013, 05:10:06 am
KSP uses Unity and the Unity API is not thread-safe.

Quote from: greatorder on February 19, 2013, 10:24:16 am
Because with the amount of lag it's producing, it doesn't seem to be. Either that or my processors have burned out.

What are your specs?

Also keep in mind that large rockets with many struts are going to lag badly and thats normal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GalenEvil on February 20, 2013, 07:20:52 am
The Unity Classes are specific to being not threadsafe (MonoBehaviours, Meshes, Components, etc), but it is very possible to make multithreaded applications using Unity. The rendering portion would still all be done in the main thread though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2013, 08:46:39 am
Quote from: GalenEvil on February 20, 2013, 07:20:52 am
The Unity Classes are specific to being not threadsafe (MonoBehaviours, Meshes, Components, etc), but it is very possible to make multithreaded applications using Unity. The rendering portion would still all be done in the main thread though.

yeah but there isn't much in this game that doesn't pass trough unity.

I mean, both graphics update and physics updates (the part about the ship holding together, the orbiting is done by their code) which are the only heavy stuff are done by unity.

their code handles more or less:
resources
orbiting
drawing gauges and things
the manoeuvring prediction and orbital paths in general
detecting soi changes and applying them
probably drag&engine thrust forces are calculated by them and only then feed to unity (it is a guess here)

which aren't small part of the game, but doesn't look computationally intensive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on February 20, 2013, 10:49:26 am
Of those only gauges and maneuver prediction (at a glance) wouldn't be simple to run in parallel (although maneuver prediction could possibly still be run in parallel, but only when there would be a SoI change without maneuvering), but yeah the biggest thing lag-wise is physics and gains from running those things in parallel would likely be negligible unless you had gigantic numbers of ships going, and you'd probably run out of memory first anyway (and trying to actually select anything would be impossible).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 20, 2013, 11:12:17 am
Don't underestimate modern memory. I can load 65536000ish points of data and only use barely 30 mb. :P

That would be... a 256x256 map with various values, then a few more 256x256 maps, and a set of three 256x256 bmp files. You probably won't run out of memory in normal operations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 20, 2013, 12:25:58 pm
dear diary
IT'S VALL
today i have learned at least one moon is a legitimate physics object
I'M GOING TO FIRE IT AT KERBIN WITH A GIANT FUCKING ROCKET AND LAUGH LIKE A MADMAN
currently experimenting in whenever i can land a big enough rocket on it to make it deorbit and record the results

e: woo for getting excited early, i guess

i'm looking at some concrete data (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Vall) here and apparently if i made an impact i'm flying rockets too big for my own good

i'm going to put a refuelling-capable rocket on its equator anyway, an object with a perfect orbit must be the easiest to detect anomalies on
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on February 20, 2013, 01:27:36 pm
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G01NoaTM46o&list=UUxzC4EngIsMrPmbm6Nxvb-A&index=106) is some information on de-orbiting moon's by Scott Manley. Lots of math ahead, you have been warned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 20, 2013, 02:08:15 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on February 20, 2013, 01:27:36 pm
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G01NoaTM46o&list=UUxzC4EngIsMrPmbm6Nxvb-A&index=106) is some information on de-orbiting moon's by Scott Manley. Lots of math ahead, you have been warned.

Basically, you need a lot of rockets with about as much fuel to match or exceed the mass of the moon. You also need many thousands or millions of years.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 20, 2013, 02:33:39 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 20, 2013, 02:08:15 pm
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on February 20, 2013, 01:27:36 pm
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G01NoaTM46o&list=UUxzC4EngIsMrPmbm6Nxvb-A&index=106) is some information on de-orbiting moon's by Scott Manley. Lots of math ahead, you have been warned.

Basically, you need a lot of rockets with about as much fuel to match or exceed the mass of the moon. You also need many thousands or millions of years.

"millions of years" goes for using only one NERVA - which is the most efficient method, apparently.

He also said that the moons are on rails which made me a very sad kerbonaut. I could manage to bring a supertanker which has ~200k liquid fuel and oxidizer into Minmus orbit, then make a lander descend, burn, ascend, burn, repeat until supertanker is 90% depleted, use the rest of the fuel to transfer to a 100k Kerbin orbit, refuel that, place it back...

And nobody's saying that once you've got a moon rolling you can't plan manuevers for it. Speed up a craft using a slingshot? How about Gilly? Sure, that'd mess up a bit of the solar system, but it works in theory. Bonus points for crashing something into Jool and seeing if it sticks out after.

this is one of the features that'll never, ever get added, and this is why i am sad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on February 20, 2013, 04:16:50 pm
Newb question after not playing this in forever and getting into the demo, how do I ensure my parachutes don't disconnect soon after deploying and causing the death of the first kerbil to leave the atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 20, 2013, 04:17:54 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on February 20, 2013, 04:16:50 pm
Newb question after not playing this in forever and getting into the demo, how do I ensure my parachutes don't disconnect soon after deploying and causing the death of the first kerbil to leave the atmosphere?
Put enough parachutes to handle the weight of the rocket decelerating suddenly, or reduce your vertical velocity before deployment. Like everything else, parachutes have a maximum physical strain they can handle before ripping away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on February 20, 2013, 04:20:05 pm
If it's during reentry, let the atmospheric drag slow your command pod down before you deploy the 'chutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2013, 04:24:40 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on February 20, 2013, 04:16:50 pm
Newb question after not playing this in forever and getting into the demo, how do I ensure my parachutes don't disconnect soon after deploying and causing the death of the first kerbil to leave the atmosphere?

is there a drogue chute in the demo? that is designed to slow down heavy stuff before deploying the mains, but I don't know if it's there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 20, 2013, 04:26:55 pm
its not.
last i checked the demo has only one parachute, the mk 16. or atleast the equivelent
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on February 20, 2013, 04:32:23 pm
Yeah there's only the mk16, thanks for the quick replies. Pretty sure a single parachute solved everything the last time I played, though it makes sense as my smaller rockets were fine and only the bigger ones are failing.
Caved in and finally bought the game, though, so I'll soon be working with different parachutes I suppose.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 20, 2013, 05:05:38 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2013, 04:24:40 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on February 20, 2013, 04:16:50 pm
Newb question after not playing this in forever and getting into the demo, how do I ensure my parachutes don't disconnect soon after deploying and causing the death of the first kerbil to leave the atmosphere?

is there a drogue chute in the demo? that is designed to slow down heavy stuff before deploying the mains, but I don't know if it's there.
No, but I think there is one in the final game. or in one of the mods I use...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2013, 05:06:44 pm
It's in the Full game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 20, 2013, 09:45:20 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2013, 05:06:44 pm
It's in the Full game.
Drogue chutes are awesome :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on February 22, 2013, 02:24:30 am
So I've been playing with space planes again and managed to make something that assists an ion powered probe to space. It uses the nesting intake on struts exploit to use 14 intakes for 1 engine.
(http://i.imgur.com/ED6frgPs.png) (http://imgur.com/ED6frgP.png)
Here's a picture of the probe in its stable orbit. The orbit is 70km-90km. I ran out of daylight partway through circularizing and figured as long as it's out of the atmosphere I can fix it later.
(http://i.imgur.com/pclMQFCs.png) (http://imgur.com/pclMQFC.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 22, 2013, 05:54:32 am
Quote from: Leonon on February 22, 2013, 02:24:30 am
So I've been playing with space planes again and managed to make something that assists an ion powered probe to space. It uses the nesting intake on struts exploit to use 14 intakes for 1 engine.
(http://i.imgur.com/ED6frgPs.png) (http://imgur.com/ED6frgP.png)
Here's a picture of the probe in its stable orbit. The orbit is 70km-90km. I ran out of daylight partway through circularizing and figured as long as it's out of the atmosphere I can fix it later.
(http://i.imgur.com/pclMQFCs.png) (http://imgur.com/pclMQFC.png)
Should have tossed at least one battery pack on there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on February 23, 2013, 11:47:39 pm
One thing I had never really managed to do was to land on the Mün. A task, the first goal of many, I had failed over and over. I had given up after innumerable failures. But I decided to rise up, and try again, with  the codenamed "Project Interjection", a sister craft to the many crafts of the  failed Interception series.

After some mucking around with handling the craft, I decided to try the stupid method of getting to the moon. No orbit, no space station refueling, nothing fancy like that. I decided to just fly up. This was my old strategy of trying to get to the Mün before I became more informed on how KSP worked. However, my new strategies were plagued by a lack of fuel, and the flying up strategy used a lot of guess work and often ended in frustration. The introduction of control nodes and the target system, however, changed everything. There was no more guess work, I could finally make massive, random paths towards the Mün and make them work!

So I did just that. The craft turned out to be a one way trip, due to lack of fuel, but I didn't care. The craft crashed onto the Münar surface, leaving a trail of fire that destroyed all of the scientific equipment, but I didn't care. I have finally landed on the Mün!

Picture time!

Spoiler: The Kerbals say hello to KSC. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  An uncanny resemblance. (Warning: 3 large images.) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  Excuse me sir, but may I ask why you are doing that? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Also, I had a Kerbal fall through the floor. He is now part of the Mün, forever. (click to show/hide)

And that sums up the Mün trip in a nutshell.

Now, I need to redesign the probe the craft had been carrying, and make the trip two way to the Mün and possibly one way to Minmus.

Quick bit of trivia: ü=ue. As such, another, technically correct, way to spell 'Mün' is 'Muen', and that the pronunciation of 'Mün' is very similar to the pronunciation of 'Moon'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 23, 2013, 11:52:37 pm
When I want to get to the mun, I do one of two things:

A: Just kinda... start prograde accelerating in orbit once the mun shows up on the horizon in an orbit that's nice and inclined with it. It works!

B: Use the nodes cause those things are mondo wicked cray.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on February 24, 2013, 06:43:30 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xXh5pwvY20
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on February 25, 2013, 02:10:16 pm
http://www.twitch.tv/kerbalsp

the devs are showing stuff they work on again right now like on every monday.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on February 25, 2013, 04:57:35 pm
Currently my favourite Kerbal video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayi1l246GZo)

edit: Video was reuploaded for some reason. New URL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2edbulxlw).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 26, 2013, 03:00:59 am
I can't wait for 0.19 to break the aerodynamics model (or at least craft file compatibility) so that I stop upgrading this SSTO.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_184_Screens/screenshot21.png)

It does look pretty, but this is the 9th revision of the 4th iteration of it. I can't force myself to leave it alone!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 26, 2013, 03:54:08 am
How people make sstos work is a mystery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on February 26, 2013, 04:20:13 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on February 26, 2013, 03:54:08 am
How people make sstos work is a mystery.

Its like a really shallow gravity turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 26, 2013, 04:23:47 am
No, my problem is I usually spin out of control in aerospike altitudes, or I run out of fuel long short of the required 2200 m/s. Sometimes I flip out of control when I shut my jet engines off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 26, 2013, 04:44:30 am
You must not treat your air-breathing engines as a rocket stage. My, rather poorly built in comparison to others since I focus on looks over function, SSTO, flies up to 22000m and to a horizontal speed over 1100m/s, on turbojets alone. From there, the rockets engage and push it a little further until the jets start failing, at which point you shut them off and close all intakes, and tilt the whole thing up, so it gains altitude instead of more horizontal speed. Ideally you'll get a 70-80km apoapsis going at over half the required orbital speed, and you should have enough fuel to go from there.

One of the key points is having enough thrust. Efficiency isn't everything. Don't use aerospikes for SSTOs unless they use nothing BUT aerospikes for flying, since the aerospikes' primary advantage is in the lower atmosphere. Up high, the higher thrust and vectoring capability of the T30 engines will serve you much better. Vectoring is especially important so that you don't flip out when you switch to pure rockets.

Once you know the basics, it's just the matter of having enough fuel and enough lift to fly. It's just fine tuning from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 26, 2013, 04:56:48 am
... But my jet engines die at 12000 :/

Why do you have to close off the intakes?
Aaand my ship flips out when I angle it up even with rocket engines Dx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on February 26, 2013, 05:27:34 am
Quote from: olemars on February 25, 2013, 04:57:35 pm
Currently my favourite Kerbal video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayi1l246GZo)

Set to private sadly :(

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on February 26, 2013, 04:44:30 am
close all intakes

This is a new thing for me, I didn't even know you could do this in the first place. Gonna have to try this out when I get home from uni tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 26, 2013, 05:52:57 am
Closed intakes generate no intake air (obviously), but also have greatly reduced drag. There's usually little reason to have open intakes when your jets are shut off, unless you need extra airbraking power.

The intakes may be one of the reasons your ship flips out (if they're on the front especially). Another reason is too many lifting/control surfaces up front. If you have them, make sure you have enough steering power in the back to retain control when they become useless.

Yet another reason is plain old unbalanced power load. An SSTO deals with two different situations. When in atmosphere, it needs to be balanced not to flip out due to atmosphere, but when in space it needs to also be balanced not to flip out due to thrust not being aligned to the center of mass.

Tip to not have your engines die out early: At 12000, you already need to be flying nearly level. Angle yourself up early on to get through the first 10000m, but gradually level out afterwards. Watch your intake air level. If you see it drop too fast, level out and gain speed - don't rush to the stratosphere. To get enough air at 18000m you need to fly at almost 900m/s, without intake spam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on February 26, 2013, 06:04:28 am
Yeah, I have four intakes on the front. :/ Also was going at an angle.
Okay, whenever I have time I should try again Dx
Main reason I used aerospikes was because they're pretty <_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 26, 2013, 06:54:29 am
If you want to have a better look at what I build (or play around with it), here - Space Harrier 10 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Space%20Harrier%2010.craft), the latest revision of my SSTO. It's a bit on the unstable side, and likes to pitch up when empty, but very much capable of getting up to a 100x100 orbit with fuel/oxidizer to spare for maneuvers.

Control groups:
[1] turns all turbojets and intakes on and off.
[2] turns the NERVA engine on and off.
[3] turns the LV-T30 main engines on and off.
[4] turns two outer turbojets on and off - for flying empty.
[5] extends the antennae around the hull, for aesthetic purposes
[8] turns the four tiny forward-facing radial engines on and off, for quick deceleration during docking maneuvers.
[Abort] detaches the cockpit and opens its parachutes. Cockpit is a micro-shuttle, with dockport, dedicated RCS tank, and thrusters.

Takeoff instructions:

Deorbit when and as you see fit. Keep in mind, the craft tends to pitch up hard when flying empty, especially at high speeds. Keep it pointing prograde, and keep ASAS on. Use RCS if necessary. Remember to turn off the NERVA with [2] and turn the intakes and jets back on with [1]. Turn the outer jets off for more balanced flight with [4]. Once you get past the initial reentry phase and are close to the ground, the craft pretty much lands itself. Mind the NERVA in the back, and just glide into the landing. The craft won't drop forward easily, it has a heavy tail, so you will need to brake and pitch down to get its front wheel on the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on February 26, 2013, 07:03:24 am
Quote from: buckets on February 26, 2013, 05:27:34 am
Quote from: olemars on February 25, 2013, 04:57:35 pm
Currently my favourite Kerbal video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayi1l246GZo)

Set to private sadly :(

Video was reuploaded for some reason. New URL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2edbulxlw).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on February 26, 2013, 10:40:32 pm
Quote from: olemars on February 26, 2013, 07:03:24 am
Quote from: buckets on February 26, 2013, 05:27:34 am
Quote from: olemars on February 25, 2013, 04:57:35 pm
Currently my favourite Kerbal video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayi1l246GZo)

Set to private sadly :(

Video was reuploaded for some reason. New URL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2edbulxlw).

Wow, that's realy well done. I'm gonna have to look into space stations at some stage, they look so helpfull.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 26, 2013, 11:28:36 pm
I made a boat and floated a bit. link!

http://aseaheru.tumblr.com/post/44119373045/my-fourth-boat-design-with-matbro-taking-a-swim
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 02, 2013, 12:01:03 am
Project: Tallos Eve; Nickname: Probeception

Purpose: Deliver a Large Probe with 4 Small Lander Probes to the Orbit of the Planet Eve, then proceed to land the SLPs on the planet. Research developed from this project will be put towards sending the Tallos style probe to Duna, Laythe and working on Manned Interplanetary Flight.

Outcome: Success

I developed a large probe with four small probes attached to it. The small lander probes have 2 of the smallest fuel tanks, 4 lander legs, 2 radial parachutes, 2 small solar panels, 1 ant engine, 2 antenna, and a array scientific tools attached to them.

The Mother Probe, Tallos Eve, has 4 Gigantor solar panels, 4 blutonium reactors, 3 xenon tanks, an array of scientific and communications devices, and the 4 hosted probes.

Picture time:

Spoiler: First conscious visible sighting of Eve. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Tallos Eve, deployed in full glory orbiting Eve (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  Probe detachment. Closest solar panels closed to reduce chance of accident. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The Purple Probe (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Parachtes Deplured (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Dangit, I even took precautions to prevent this! (click to show/hide)

Then it fell over.

3 probes remain on Tallos Eve.

Also, all the Parachutes on all the probes are accidentally deployed due to a staging kerfuffle. Whoops.

Note: Tallos is named in honor of Tallon IV.

Note: I would have had this done a day earlier, but as I was being slung by Eve's gravity, I accidentally pressed space and decoupled the nuclear engine carrying Tallos Eve. Whoops. This is attempt #2.

Note: I need sleep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 02, 2013, 12:13:05 pm
Welp. 0.18.4 came out, and for the first time in KSP history, I made a spaceplane that works reasonably. (As opposed to a plane that doesn't go to space, a field I have far too much experience in.)
And by reasonably, I mean it's bloody cool.

Meet the newly christened Laika!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Everything is completely reusable... well, as reusable as it can be, which is that it WOULD land safely if I happen to be looking at it. This plane's main feature is that it is in fact a SPY plane, and thus mounts many antennae for... er... spying or something.

Oh, and it's landing sequence is really cool. In the grand total of two landings I've made with it, I had one success and one that landed gently only a few miles from KSP. With Jeb himself in the cockpit. IT was great, but sadly, I wasn't thinking about pics at that moment.

But I am now, so I'm going to see about doing that mission again! With actual screenshots from start to finish!
...soon, I swear. :P

EDIT: Here, have it on the runway while you wait. Also, I feel stupid for not realizing that KSP has the f1 key set to screenshot. :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 02, 2013, 12:25:26 pm
I prefer building my spaceplanes in the spaceplane hangar.
Though i rarely do that because the only gain is that you have a far bigger chance of landing at KSC.

Spaceplanes usually cant carry cargo(though i do have one in mind for a future one) amd if they do, its usually very light cargo, and.very hard to place right.

For any sort of functional vessel, i use regular rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 02, 2013, 12:37:30 pm
Any SSTO worth its salt will take off from the runway. Because it's not an SSTO if it can't land, refuel, and fly back up into space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 02, 2013, 01:00:48 pm
This is, of course, not in any way an SSTO.

Now excuse me while I get these 80 screenshots into a coherent story. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 02, 2013, 01:56:32 pm
Beep boop boop

Spoiler: The Second of Tallos Eve's probes has arrived (click to show/hide)

And on land this time.

Not sure if I should post the  other probes as I land them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 02, 2013, 02:29:57 pm
Behold!

Spoiler: Laika, piloted by Jeb himself! (click to show/hide)
Things on the to-do list:

-Actually fly around in this thing, without parachutes.
-See if it can splash down unpowered.
-Land on land?
-Try what I originally made it for: bouncing around the upper atmosphere at high speeds, thus being ultra-efficient, at least in theory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2013, 05:57:00 am
I don't mean to be rude, but isn't your space plane just a rocket with winglet? A fully-reusable rocket yes, but especially the landing doesn't seem very planey to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on March 03, 2013, 06:27:10 am
Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2013, 05:57:00 am
I don't mean to be rude, but isn't your space plane just a rocket with winglet? A fully-reusable rocket yes, but especially the landing doesn't seem very planey to me.

I think Twi said something about not bothering to land it properly, so it could be potentialy very planey.

I used to use something like it all the time. It's a cross between a spaceplane and a rocket, you get to fly about on reentry and you don't have to worry about your jet engines getting a little wonky if you go too high.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2013, 06:35:14 am
So it's basically a space shuttle. Did anyone made a copy of the space shuttle? Complete with random bout of explosions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 03, 2013, 06:36:26 am
the people who are making Day-Z did.
as a mod...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 03, 2013, 08:40:17 am
Quote from: buckets on March 03, 2013, 06:27:10 am
Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2013, 05:57:00 am
I don't mean to be rude, but isn't your space plane just a rocket with winglet? A fully-reusable rocket yes, but especially the landing doesn't seem very planey to me.

I think Twi said something about not bothering to land it properly, so it could be potentialy very planey.

I used to use something like it all the time. It's a cross between a spaceplane and a rocket, you get to fly about on reentry and you don't have to worry about your jet engines getting a little wonky if you go too high.

Yeah, it's pretty much a mini-space shuttle. And the landing method was actually a bit of an accident: I couldn't really fit anything but radial parachutes on that readily, and I didn't intend for it to go belly-up like that, but I liked the result (perfect landing every time!) so I kept using it. :P

And trust me, I've had plenty of experience with jet planes. I have two different semi-decent-looking designs one decent, Aeris-type design and one giant jet engine cluster with rocketry strapped on literally as an afterthought for SSTO at the moment. And also two designs that failed. The Svetlana, more or less a giant delta wing, can pretty much plane but is too unstable to space. And the Molniya looked awesome but is plagued by takeoff issues.

EDIT: Actually, this second design, slightly reworked, is looking promising. What I need to do is figure out how, when and where to transition from jet to rocket.
If I can do it, though, I got three Kerbals into space. On a plane. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 03, 2013, 09:38:41 am
It is perfectly possible to make descent SSTO's that arent spaceplanes, i use those for hauling between mun surface and orbit. I could make a SSTO capable of landing anywhere.

Like a personal rocket of sorts.

Powered landings are really fun :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 03, 2013, 09:42:56 am
Quote from: DrPoo on March 03, 2013, 09:38:41 am
It is perfectly possible to make decent SSTO's that arent spaceplanes, i use those for hauling between mun surface and orbit. I could make a SSTO capable of landing anywhere.

Like a personal rocket of sorts.

Powered landings are really fun :P

Well yeah, but mun orbit is easier than Kerbin. And obviously has no atmosphere. :P Rocket-type Kerbin SSTO's are not my personal agenda at the moment. Though they might be eventually.

Powered landings ARE enjoyable, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 04, 2013, 06:13:10 pm
Curse you, lack of posting, making me double post!
Ah, well.  Have the Saga of Twi's Attempts to Spaceplane. Most of which fail. :P
Plan 1: Mount your rocket on front of a jet! This was brought to my mind by both TheWinterOwl and my dad.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Results (click to show/hide)
Huge success! At least in the orbitability department. Reusability could be improved. The launch vehicle can never make a quite perfect landing. It comes pretty close, though.
Also note the radial engines added to Laika, so I can have extra thrust at low cost in weight. Because the LV-909 is wimpy.

Plan 2: Laika is so tiny! Let's do that with a bigger spaceplane!

Spoiler:  The 'Kaguya' spaceplane (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Results (click to show/hide)
It works- but barely. Too close for my comfort.

Plan 3: Don't you have that actual spaceplane from before?
Spoiler:  Asuna spaceplane (not to be confused with Asuna aeroplane) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Result (click to show/hide)
Conclusion: The Asuna is about as aerodynamic as the F-4 Phantom and about as likely to go to space today. Or ever.

Plan 4: Well then why don't you make a better one?
Spoiler:  Eirin (click to show/hide)
Result: No image found.
I'm not very good at spaceplaning. Also, flameouts make you die.

Plan 5: Download the Hooligan Labs airship mod and strap your plane to a balloon!
...I can do better.
Spoiler:  The pictures speak for themselves (click to show/hide)
Conclusion: A promising test! Of course, this sort of design would not happen in real life, because balloons have a nasty habit of popping when surrounded by vacuum. On the other hand, it has seen at least some consideration down at more reasonable altitudes as a heavy cargo carrier.

Also, mounting your jet engines close to the central axis turns out to immensely help with flameout issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 05, 2013, 12:26:27 am
Going to Eeloo with rovers:

Spoiler: The ridiculous take-off rocket (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Changing orbit to intersect (click to show/hide)

I had to transfer fuel from the rovers to use for landing since I accidently bumped into the ground and accidently turned on ASAS (before I realised I was moving way too fast sideways and had to slow down). There was no fuel left for the rovers :'(

Spoiler: Trying to land (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Success (click to show/hide)

However, the RSC thruster I put on them provided enough thrust to move at about 10m/s and get 12k from the landing site.

Spoiler: Somewhere on Eeloo (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 05, 2013, 04:07:31 am
Quote from: greatorder on March 04, 2013, 06:17:33 pm
I wish someone would make nuclear radial mounted engines that looks similar or identical to the normal radial mounted engines, because they can be used to make somewhat-futuristic craft.
You can just radial mount an engine nacelle and put a nuclear engine on that. Thats what I do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 05, 2013, 05:58:43 pm
...Goddamit, is this game available anywhere else but the site? I don't have a card at the moment...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 05, 2013, 06:10:07 pm
No, it's only available on the site. They're the ones who sell it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 05, 2013, 06:12:20 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 05, 2013, 05:58:43 pm
...Goddamit, is this game available anywhere else but the site? I don't have a card at the moment...
I don't think so. But you can pay with paypal..

Assuming you haven't tried it yet: there is also a demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2013, 06:14:01 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 05, 2013, 05:58:43 pm
...Goddamit, is this game available anywhere else but the site? I don't have a card at the moment...
I got KSP by purchasing a non-reloadable debit card with cash and using that. See if you can try that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 06, 2013, 11:18:13 am
Welp, have more of Twi's Continued Attempts to Get Into Space More Or Less Horizontally, part two. Or...something.

First, the fruits of that test from before:

Spoiler:  Patchouli? (click to show/hide)
Put rockets on hybrid airship.
Spoiler: Results (click to show/hide)
Suborbital in one stage! Improvement, to be sure. But I realized that I had too much jet fuel and not enough rocket fuel. So I tried again...
Spoiler: Patchouli 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  Result (click to show/hide)
Still suborbital.

I figured I had too much mass and made a smaller version:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Suffice to say it did not go to space today.

Then I decided to try something completely different: launch a Laika-type rocketplane from an airship already at high speeds and altitudes.
Spoiler:  Maou Yuusha (click to show/hide)
Sadly, I ran into controllability issues, forcing me to release Yuusha much earlier than planned. Thus leading to:
Spoiler:  I went to space today, but only just. (click to show/hide)
Also, the landing was suboptimal. :<

So then I did funky things. Namely, strapped a redesigned Yuusha to a big old balloon thing and just lifted it waaaay up. After all, if you can't get speed, you can still get altitude.
Spoiler: Woo! (click to show/hide)
As you can see, it worked! Well, it was a little close for comfort, but still.
Plus, I got to land the thing, which was an adventure in itself:
Spoiler: Landing these things is slow. (click to show/hide)

In conclusion, I take too many screenshots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 06, 2013, 03:37:15 pm
I just saved a Kerbal from a rocket crash.
How? Powered jetpack landing o_O. Did not expect that to work. Too bad there were two Kerbals in the rocket :c.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 03:49:25 pm
Build an abort stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 06, 2013, 05:08:22 pm
I would, but it was my space station core. Don't want a random decoupler in there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 05:24:01 pm
aah. perhaps have the whole thing eject?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 06, 2013, 05:27:20 pm
An abort stage which deorbits and lands safely an entire assembled station would be goddamn amazing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 05:27:56 pm
And now i want to build one...
And i cant even dock!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 06, 2013, 09:08:02 pm
goddamnit, I bought this and now I'm having trouble getting a simple probe into a stable orbit in order to get it to the Mun. WTF
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 06, 2013, 09:09:56 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 06, 2013, 09:08:02 pm
goddamnit, I bought this and now I'm having trouble getting a simple probe into a stable orbit in order to get it to the Mun. WTF

there's a tutorial!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 06, 2013, 09:12:49 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 06, 2013, 09:08:02 pm
goddamnit, I bought this and now I'm having trouble getting a simple probe into a stable orbit in order to get it to the Mun. WTF
Welcome to Kerbal Space Program! It is not easy. Could I have a screenshot of your probe please?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 09:14:59 pm
I can get things to:
1. crash
2. explode
3. abort
4. splashdown
5. float
6. exit kerbins gravity
7. orbit kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 06, 2013, 09:39:54 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 09:14:59 pm
I can get things to:
1. crash
2. explode
3. abort
4. splashdown
5. float
6. exit kerbins gravity
7. orbit kerbin
Once you've achieved #7, getting to the mun is easy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 10:13:12 pm
Not with my ships. i built a probe and because i forgot two bits it took around 10 min to re-direct the ship. and no RCS. the ship is currently orbiting the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 03:12:32 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 10:13:12 pm
Not with my ships. i built a probe and because i forgot two bits it took around 10 min to re-direct the ship. and no RCS. the ship is currently orbiting the sun.

...How the heck did you manage that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 03:45:52 am
Quote from: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 03:12:32 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 06, 2013, 10:13:12 pm
Not with my ships. i built a probe and because i forgot two bits it took around 10 min to re-direct the ship. and no RCS. the ship is currently orbiting the sun.

...How the heck did you manage that?
Orbiting the sun is a lot easier than orbiting Kerbal. Just go up, up, up...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 01:54:38 pm
Well, I managed to get a probe to the Mun. Landing it, however, was a different issue that I don't want to talk about right now.


On the plus side, I have my Space Station Core up and running as my future base of all space operations!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 07, 2013, 02:02:57 pm
My mun probe ended up in a polar orbit. Considering recentring the orbit was rather problematic, I decided to just set up an intercept orbit (not that hard).


Getting back was more problematic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 02:05:56 pm
My Solar Probe managed to orbit the sun. Not very hard to do, and I now (hopefully) have a lot of delta V to muck around with in the solar system.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ion Engines are not very good :P, but I just wanted to use them. My probe has four of them, and can speed up 10m/s in 24 seconds. It took me most of my first xenon tank to get out of Kerbals SoI, but now I five other ones :D.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 07, 2013, 03:31:41 pm
I used a nuclear engine for most of the work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 07, 2013, 03:49:40 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 02:05:56 pm
Ion Engines are not very good :P, but I just wanted to use them. My probe has four of them, and can speed up 10m/s in 24 seconds. It took me most of my first xenon tank to get out of Kerbals SoI, but now I five other ones :D.
Remember: If you want to conserve fuel with ions, put them on low power. At least, I think that's how they work. You get more impulse out of them that way, IIRC. Normal engines used to do that too, but that's not how rocket engines work. :P

Also, if you're a fan of ion engines and mods, consider  the Ion Hybrid pack. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/0-18-ion-engine-pack) Number one, it increases the stock Ion Engine's thrust from 0.5 to 2. Which is still pretty tiny, mind, but it makes them much more bearable to use. Second, it adds a whole bunch of big batteries, big solar panels, big xenon tanks, a larger ion engine (with the same impulse but slightly better thrust to weight, IIRC), and nifty hybrid engines that I've never used and am not really sure how they work. They somehow use rocket fuel, xenon gas AND electric charge. Or something. I don't really know, I haven't used them. :P

If you're not a moddy kinda guy, feel free to completely ignore that whole paragraph.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2013, 04:20:02 pm
Hybrid ion engines are actually rather good. I'm using them on the ship I'm currently assembling in orbit. A single engine module requires a launch all on its own and careful docking via detachable maneuvering RCS blocks which are discarded after docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 04:20:37 pm
I've seen and (kinda) used that before.
Thank, but I want to do everything vanilla for now. No need to use mods if there is still plenty of base game to discover.

Anyway, I just finished my first (vanilla) docking :D.
*** Dutchling will never try to dock without RCS ever again
The goal of that mission was to a) manage to finally dock something, b) transfer Kerbals (Jeb and Bill) to the KSS, and c) Bring whatever his name is back to the KSC. Misson goals (a) and (b) have been completed, now I just need to land. While I have landed before, I never landed from orbit, or at specific location. It should all work out just fine though :).

@Aseaheru, I do too. But I like to use Ion Engines because both Xenon and Ion sound awesome :P. It also fits better on a probe imo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2013, 04:23:20 pm
Also these are excellent for large ships...

http://kerbalspaceport.com/common-berthing-mechanisms-2-5m-docking-ports-2/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 07, 2013, 04:35:15 pm
No, it has an ion engine but i used a nuclear one to get it into position.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 04:37:18 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 07, 2013, 04:35:15 pm
No, it has an ion engine but i used a nuclear one to get it into position.
Well, I could have added another stage, but that would mean I'd leave debris in orbit of Kerbal which I'd rather avoid doing. And besides, it is not like I have anything I need to use all that xenon for. Might as well see if I can escape Kerbals SoI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 07, 2013, 06:12:55 pm
First Kerbal to land, on err, Kerbin :P.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next time I'll include some thrusters. I don't trust those parachutes >.>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 07:38:30 pm
goddamn matching orbits to dock with something is rather hard -_-

I FINALLY get a SS habitat module into a good orbit and subequently wast ALL my fuel trying to match orbits with the core  :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2013, 07:41:57 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 07:38:30 pm
goddamn matching orbits to dock with something is rather hard -_-

I FINALLY get a SS habitat module into a good orbit and subequently wast ALL my fuel trying to match orbits with the core  :'(
What do you mean by matching orbits? The orbital plane or the position within the orbit (ie around the planet)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 07, 2013, 07:55:02 pm
both.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2013, 07:57:19 pm
If you're already in the same orbit as the target but you need to catch up/slow down to reach it, just burn so your orbit is slightly larger or smaller.

Assume you and your target are in a 100km orbit. If you need to 'catch up' as in the target is ahead of you, make your orbit 95km and you will slowly catch up. If you're ahead of your target, make your orbit 105km. You will go slower than the target and eventually it will be under you, 5km away. At that distance you can zero out your relative velocity and burn towards it to dock up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 08, 2013, 07:22:33 am
Quote from: tryrar on March 07, 2013, 07:38:30 pm
goddamn matching orbits to dock with something is rather hard -_-

I FINALLY get a SS habitat module into a good orbit and subequently wast ALL my fuel trying to match orbits with the core  :'(
On the plus side, when you do manage to dock, you will feel like a sexy, sexy god of space.

Also, what Forsaken said.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 08, 2013, 03:18:36 pm
It is worth saying that for your space object manipulation you NEED this really. Go check it.

http://kerbalspaceport.com/robotic-arms-pack/

Canada arm anyone? :D Or you could also just use it as a big refueling arm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 08, 2013, 03:42:43 pm
In fact the arm once magnetize will initiate a *force docking* on the part you magnetized to. And i didnt read the corrent conversation to be honest i just threw it here since it was a nice addition to the game :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 08, 2013, 07:15:05 pm
Just started over, and decided to start simple. I've currently got a satellite orbiting Kerbal, as well as one orbiting the Mun. Currently drawing plans to land a probe on the Mun and launch a satellite at Minmus
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 08, 2013, 07:16:19 pm
The very first thing I do now is lift a ton of fuel into orbit and make a fueling station at 150km. Its very handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 08, 2013, 08:16:27 pm
Well, getting a probe to minmus was a bit difficult as it forced me to learn about slingshot maneuvers(since the Mun more often than not was in the way), but I now have a satellite orbiting Minmus :D

Next on the list is actually managing to land a probe on a different planet without having it impact at terminal velocity

Edit: Ok, first attempt at landing: Ran out of fuel long before reaching ground. Need extra tank on probe lander

Second Attempt: Ran out just feet above ground, making my final velocity just a smidge too much for the landing struts to take. Need to wait a little longer before activating descent engine

Third Attempt: Bounced it and smeared across the surface. Eh, close enough :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 09, 2013, 12:08:47 am
Best speed to do a landing is max 3m/s if you are somewhat light with good landing gear, hell i dont really care i land straight on engines at .3m/s, why bother with landing legs? :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 12:16:33 am
Am I the only one whose method of landing on something consists of having my tragectory completely intersect the planet (rather than first entering oribt)?

Plus, I want to use Mechjeb, but the mod I use to remove the launchtower has the (an older) mechjeb DLL included with it. If I replace this DLL (MuMechLib.dll) with the mechjeb one will it break anything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 09, 2013, 12:33:13 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 09, 2013, 12:08:47 am
Best speed to do a landing is max 3m/s if you are somewhat light with good landing gear, hell i dont really care i land straight on engines at .3m/s, why bother with landing legs? :D

Eh, came down at 20m/s. Didn't quite burn early enough to not crash  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 01:21:58 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 12:16:33 am
Am I the only one whose method of landing on something consists of having my tragectory completely intersect the planet (rather than first entering oribt)?

Plus, I want to use Mechjeb, but the mod I use to remove the launchtower has the (an older) mechjeb DLL included with it. If I replace this DLL (MuMechLib.dll) with the mechjeb one will it break anything?

The whole point of a DLL is to allow updating the DLL's code without having to recompile.
So yes, it might break your game. :P From my experience, people usually change functions or swap them around between DLL updates.

Actually, DLLs might just be for the programmer to not have to bother compiling it every time...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 01:31:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 01:21:58 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 12:16:33 am
Am I the only one whose method of landing on something consists of having my tragectory completely intersect the planet (rather than first entering oribt)?

Plus, I want to use Mechjeb, but the mod I use to remove the launchtower has the (an older) mechjeb DLL included with it. If I replace this DLL (MuMechLib.dll) with the mechjeb one will it break anything?

The whole point of a DLL is to allow updating the DLL's code without having to recompile.
So yes, it might break your game. :P From my experience, people usually change functions or swap them around between DLL updates.

Actually, DLLs might just be for the programmer to not have to bother compiling it every time...

I am aware of how a DLL works and their function, but the fact that it is the only non-part the mod came with (the remove launchtower mod) suggests to me that it may be a specially modified mechjeb DLL, and updating the DLL may put the launchtower back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 09, 2013, 04:02:45 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 01:31:39 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 01:21:58 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on March 09, 2013, 12:16:33 am
Am I the only one whose method of landing on something consists of having my tragectory completely intersect the planet (rather than first entering oribt)?

Plus, I want to use Mechjeb, but the mod I use to remove the launchtower has the (an older) mechjeb DLL included with it. If I replace this DLL (MuMechLib.dll) with the mechjeb one will it break anything?

The whole point of a DLL is to allow updating the DLL's code without having to recompile.
So yes, it might break your game. :P From my experience, people usually change functions or swap them around between DLL updates.

Actually, DLLs might just be for the programmer to not have to bother compiling it every time...

I am aware of how a DLL works and their function, but the fact that it is the only non-part the mod came with (the remove launchtower mod) suggests to me that it may be a specially modified mechjeb DLL, and updating the DLL may put the launchtower back.
Well i use latest mechjeb library and it runs fine with that mod too. Usually the creator of the DLL will always make sure or at least try his best to always keep backward compatibility with his newer version for mods that used it in the past who may not have updated their mods. At least thats what is supposed to happen in friendly modding cummunity.

kerbal space program is known for their friendship between modders, specialy those behind big mods, they always try to accomodate/help other modder by keeping their stuff backward compatible so in the futur, if you get a mod with an older dll dont take the older dll, just keep the newer one and it will be compatible at 95% of the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 09, 2013, 06:31:10 am
Good goddamn docking is hard. I've gotten to the point where I can lnik up orbits, kill velocity, and get within spitting distance of my station core. I, however, cannot for the life of me get the docking ports to link up -_-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 09, 2013, 06:48:26 am
remember to bring rcs and fuel and asas, then the docking ui will help keep you aligned while you move around
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 09, 2013, 07:37:04 am
....I kinda burned an entire large can of RCS fuel(plus 8 strapon tanks) trying to dock. -_-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 07:38:58 am
You switched to docking controls right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 09, 2013, 07:39:46 am
Remember to align the target vessel along normal/antinormal so that they don't move around relative to the orbit. At least thats what I do
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 11:47:09 am
Quote from: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 07:38:58 am
You switched to docking controls right?
Docking controls are evil D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 12:28:27 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 11:47:09 am
Quote from: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 07:38:58 am
You switched to docking controls right?
Docking controls are evil D:
What Why D:?

You just kill relative velocity, face the opposite direction the docking port is facing and docking controls make everything super easy...
If the thing you want to dock is spinning and doesn't have ASAS I would agree with you. Perhaps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 10, 2013, 11:16:23 am
Looks like it time to post the Complete Docking Guider again:

1: Set you docking target as target (duh)

2: Use planning to get a close approach, anything under 10 km will do.

3: When you use the target function, your prograde and retrograde icons(the green ones) on the navball is relative to the velocity difference of your target.

4: That means: burn towards retrograde, until you have no speed difference to the target.

5: Then burn towards the target(the purple icons on the navball) Now you are heading straight for the target.

6: burn retrograde again when you get close to the target.

7: repeat steps 5-6 until you are very close, then dock using rcs and the docking mode.

It has been over 100 pages since i last posted it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 10, 2013, 07:16:37 pm
On a subject of docking, has anyone here tried "reversed" up down translation controls (I and K)?

I didn't have much trouble docking since before demo was out, but every several seconds or camera pan i had to do small test fires to make sure i would be making RCS burns in correct direction.
When i switched it made everything a breeze, since you just go behind your craft with the camera and the directions of IKJLHN actually mean where the craft is going from that perspective. I think "docking mode" has the same problem, don't use that so i'm not sure.

Even in settings file default for up is [K] which is kind of reverse of the keys position on the IKJL setup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 10, 2013, 07:19:25 pm
Quote from: Nao on March 10, 2013, 07:16:37 pm
On a subject of docking, has anyone here tried "reversed" up down translation controls (I and K)?

I didn't have much trouble docking since before demo was out, but every several seconds or camera pan i had to do small test fires to make sure i would be making RCS burns in correct direction.
When i switched it made everything a breeze, since you just go behind your craft with the camera and the directions of IKJLHN actually mean where the craft is going from that perspective. I think "docking mode" has the same problem, don't use that so i'm not sure.

Even in settings file default for up is [K] which is kind of reverse of the keys position on the IKJL setup.

A really good trick, use control from here option on the docking node you are using on the docking vessel, use *set target* on the docking ring you want to dock at, and from there use the nav ball for direction when you use the RCS, J will go left on the nav ball, L right, K back you get the point. By doing so the vessel will re-group all the RCS's to aligne with the docking port you choose to control from.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 10, 2013, 08:56:14 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 10, 2013, 07:19:25 pm
Quote from: Nao on March 10, 2013, 07:16:37 pm
On a subject of docking, has anyone here tried "reversed" up down translation controls (I and K)?

I didn't have much trouble docking since before demo was out, but every several seconds or camera pan i had to do small test fires to make sure i would be making RCS burns in correct direction.
When i switched it made everything a breeze, since you just go behind your craft with the camera and the directions of IKJLHN actually mean where the craft is going from that perspective. I think "docking mode" has the same problem, don't use that so i'm not sure.

Even in settings file default for up is [K] which is kind of reverse of the keys position on the IKJL setup.

A really good trick, use control from here option on the docking node you are using on the docking vessel, use *set target* on the docking ring you want to dock at, and from there use the nav ball for direction when you use the RCS, J will go left on the nav ball, L right, K back you get the point. By doing so the vessel will re-group all the RCS's to aligne with the docking port you choose to control from.
Hmm i know how "control from here" works and it's definitely useful, but in regards to my point of reverse controls its still the same. Since the JL and KI axis work as if you were facing the port from the other ship direction not the back yours like you normally place your camera. Also if the port in question is on top of the vehicle it doesn't change anything.

Similar thing happens on the nav ball, no matter what ports are selected and controlled from, if you go toward something on default settings L will move velocity vector right - which is the direction L is located on JLIK board, but K will move it upward which is a reverse direction, thats what's counter intuitive for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 10, 2013, 09:31:35 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 12:28:27 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on March 09, 2013, 11:47:09 am
Quote from: Dutchling on March 09, 2013, 07:38:58 am
You switched to docking controls right?
Docking controls are evil D:
What Why D:?

You just kill relative velocity, face the opposite direction the docking port is facing and docking controls make everything super easy...
If the thing you want to dock is spinning and doesn't have ASAS I would agree with you. Perhaps.

No, my point is I like the normal controls more than the docking controls. I'm a grand master at docking (compared to myself :3)!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 03:02:30 pm
Got two probes to the moon :D. One is in low orbit and other landed. KSP somehow didn't save my print-screens though :/

It was... surprisingly easy. I think I'll go for an ion-rover next.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 11, 2013, 03:05:22 pm
KSP has a print screen thing? i just use paint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 11, 2013, 03:17:43 pm
F1 or F2 i forgot
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 04:00:58 pm
lolnope. no ion rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 11, 2013, 07:01:26 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 04:00:58 pm
lolnope. no ion rover.

I've done that A LOT
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 07:08:34 pm
Got two Kerbals on Mun :D

Spread over a few square kilometers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 11, 2013, 07:09:55 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 07:08:34 pm
Got two Kerbals on Mun :D

Spread over a few square kilometers.

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 11, 2013, 07:14:08 pm
IT STILL COUNTS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 11, 2013, 10:51:16 pm
I decided to mess around with spaceplanes; but no matter what I do, how many different control surfaces and winglets I add, as soon as I pull up even a little after getting to speed, I loop around and impact the ground at fatal velocity-if I'm not doing cartwheels on the tarmac instead. Help!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 11, 2013, 10:52:00 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 11, 2013, 10:51:16 pm
I decided to mess around with spaceplanes; but no matter what I do, how many different control surfaces and winglets I add, as soon as I pull up even a little after getting to speed, I loop around and impact the ground at fatal velocity-if I'm not doing cartwheels on the tarmac instead. Help!
Is your center of lift too far away from your center of mass?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 11, 2013, 11:32:16 pm
nope, I made sure to match my center of lift and mass
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 11, 2013, 11:34:37 pm
I get best results putting my center of mass forward of my center of lift actually. Not FAR forwards.

can we get a screenshot of your spaceplane?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 12, 2013, 12:09:24 am
Center of thrsut AND lift has to be well placed, if your center of thrust is *under* your center of mass you will flip up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 12, 2013, 12:21:18 am
Also be sure you have enough speed.  Trying to take off too soon can result in a flip, you generally need 150-200 speed before you can safely lift from the ground - usually at that speed, the plane starts to lift itself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 12, 2013, 12:24:33 am
I tried to make a VTOL with rotating motors.

It ended badly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 12, 2013, 11:25:56 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/43666-Kerbal-Alarm-Clock

a mod that gets you out of warp before soi changes or nodes. changed my life  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 12, 2013, 03:16:38 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 12, 2013, 12:21:18 am
Also be sure you have enough speed.  Trying to take off too soon can result in a flip, you generally need 150-200 speed before you can safely lift from the ground - usually at that speed, the plane starts to lift itself.
Wow ok i think im a good aero engineer then... i made a plane that take off at 50m/s, is stable empty or full and weight about 45 ton i think when full? the TWR is about 2ish ( when full with kethane).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 12, 2013, 05:51:51 pm
Yay, just had my first successful interplanetary flight. I decided to build a design to be very simple, rather than overcomplicating it, and I managed to get to Duna after some Maneuvers of Dubious Efficiency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 12, 2013, 06:00:15 pm
Having a little trouble orbiting my Munar lnder to the return vehicle.
Guess two poor Kerbals have to remain in Munar orbit until the space agency is done with it's Minmusmission :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 13, 2013, 01:08:25 am
Goddammit I was all set to match orbits with my station core for try 1267 at docking, when suddenly one of the engines cuts out. I inspect it and notice the fuel line for that engine that goes from the main tank to the smaller secondary secondary tanks the engines are attached to, isn't actually attached to the engine, but to a radial mono-propellent above it. FML
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 13, 2013, 08:29:31 am
You can transfer it manually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 13, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
BEST MOD EVER!!
http://kerbalspaceport.com/v-f-m-fuel-panel/

With that no more fuel line between tank, choose what tank is use first even if it doesnt respect stagings etc. Fuel management? Thist does the job.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 14, 2013, 02:07:20 am
Quote from: tryrar on March 11, 2013, 10:51:16 pm
I decided to mess around with spaceplanes; but no matter what I do, how many different control surfaces and winglets I add, as soon as I pull up even a little after getting to speed, I loop around and impact the ground at fatal velocity-if I'm not doing cartwheels on the tarmac instead. Help!

A tail with tail fins really help a lot with stability: It's very much like feathers on an arrow.

Also, pictures! even failed designs are fun to look at!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 14, 2013, 09:12:17 am
Quote from: ank on March 14, 2013, 02:07:20 am
Also, pictures! even failed designs are fun to look at!
Well, if you insist...

Spoiler: Failed design 1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Failed design 2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 14, 2013, 09:36:37 am
I love the dual engines mounted on the same fuel stack.  Really works for that spaceplane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 16, 2013, 09:22:02 pm
.19 is out!

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/thesneakster/screenshot0_zpsddcf8fce.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 09:35:28 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on March 16, 2013, 09:22:02 pm
.19 is out!
Really? Damn! I'll have to do more testing now to see if everything will work with 1.9
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 09:46:54 pm
Rofl their website is dead from the flow of the new release or what? im having trouble getting on it hahaha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 16, 2013, 09:58:10 pm
yeah. They've moved the download itself to the cloud, i think (was getting 250kb/s on it), but the actual log into store, authenticate, get link process is still handled on their site, which really isn't cut out to handle half their customer base logging in in half a day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:00:52 pm
Haha no worry, sure i would have loved to see the new effect and breaking researching for !!Science!! with the new mecanic. Now you have to think about a heat shield on athmo planet or else.... but i can easily wait a few day im tired anyway :D. At least wont end up like SC13
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:00:52 pm
Haha no worry, sure i would have loved to see the new effect and breaking researching for !!Science!! with the new mecanic. Now you have to think about a heat shield on athmo planet or else....
Not really. The atmospheric effects are visual only for now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:01:48 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:00:52 pm
Haha no worry, sure i would have loved to see the new effect and breaking researching for !!Science!! with the new mecanic. Now you have to think about a heat shield on athmo planet or else....
Not really. The atmospheric effects are visual only for now.
NOT fair :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:03:22 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:01:48 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:00:52 pm
Haha no worry, sure i would have loved to see the new effect and breaking researching for !!Science!! with the new mecanic. Now you have to think about a heat shield on athmo planet or else....
Not really. The atmospheric effects are visual only for now.
NOT fair :(
I said for now... they plan to make reentry mechanics but for now you get pretty fire and awesome vapor trails
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 16, 2013, 10:04:13 pm
Oh i know its coming, like lots of other feature i wish i could wake up in a year to see :D Futurama style!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:06:41 pm
I'm not sure if I'd be willing to miss out on months/years of my life just to get a videogame feature. o.o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Thendash on March 16, 2013, 10:25:26 pm
I'm afraid you're not dedicated enough to the space program forsaken, I'm gonna have to ask you to turn in your helmet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:27:03 pm
Quote from: Thendash on March 16, 2013, 10:25:26 pm
I'm afraid you're not dedicated enough to the space program forsaken, I'm gonna have to ask you to turn in your helmet.
s'fine. I never wear the damn thing anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 16, 2013, 10:39:00 pm
what is missing that part of life made you live longer? who knows, by the time KSP is finished there might be cloning or DF half way completed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 17, 2013, 12:36:06 am
Why do they say that 32 bit can't multithread? :S I'm reading the .19 FAQ and one of the answers said that. It's just not true >_> Maybe they mean that Unity 3 foesn't allow you to multithread?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 17, 2013, 12:41:54 am
Website... so... slow... *500 - Internal Server Error*... need... new... version....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 17, 2013, 04:13:35 am
Code: [Select]
Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Too many connections in /host/www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/htdocs/kspstore/library/database.php on line 7
MySQL connect failed. Too many connections
 ::)


why don't they kickstart one year of amazon cdn?  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 17, 2013, 06:09:43 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:06:41 pm
I'm not sure if I'd be willing to miss out on months/years of my life just to get a videogame feature. o.o

Remember, you'd get a longer life.

Also because of medical progress you will end up gaining more than a year, for each year slept... also a bunch of new games...


anyways, update!
"New mesh for the launch pad area, now with 100% less launch tower."

YES! the #1 rocket killer is finally gone!
like 90% of my rockets explode at some point because a launch clamp was inside the launch tower.

I'm gonna have fun building my own launch towers as part of the craft :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 17, 2013, 06:39:24 am
Whee fire plasma!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot4.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on March 17, 2013, 07:04:39 am
I'm loving the new effects. Real pretty, and even better if you have solar panels out to make flaming confetti.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 17, 2013, 07:07:20 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2013, 10:06:41 pm
I'm not sure if I'd be willing to miss out on months/years of my life just to get a videogame feature. o.o
Its a figure of speech saying that there is a lot of feature im really eager to see XD. I woudnt miss these moment in my life either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 17, 2013, 12:19:11 pm
Finally managed to download 0.19. Ported good old Laika over:

(http://img.ie/images/3bp0g.png)

Then built a small robot rover and tested its airdroppability:

(http://img.ie/images/ke28a.png)

Sean Mirrsen is right. KSP has just become !!FUN!!.

Also I've managed to take around 250 screenshots already. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on March 17, 2013, 12:58:13 pm
Quote from: Twi on March 17, 2013, 12:19:11 pm
Finally managed to download 0.19. Ported good old Laika over:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love Jebediah's face on this screenshot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 17, 2013, 12:58:59 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on March 17, 2013, 12:58:13 pm
Quote from: Twi on March 17, 2013, 12:19:11 pm
Finally managed to download 0.19. Ported good old Laika over:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love Jebediah's face on this screenshot.
The new expressive Kerbals are hilarious and occasionally disturbing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 17, 2013, 01:21:57 pm
I'm pretty sure this is an achievement, but not quite sure in what. Most versatile cockpit?

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot21.png)

Shuttlecraft, reentry-capable escape pod, and now also mini-rover.
(and yes, it can dock back up in Kerbin gravity)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 17, 2013, 01:32:49 pm
is separatron more powerful now?

I continuously get tanks and engines destroyed by that, both on imported, working ships and on new projects.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 01:33:15 pm
That shuttle is beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 17, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Ah, SSTOs. I need to try that again. Get better at the whole 'stop being a jet and start being a rocket' part of it.

Meanwhile, have my efforts to reenter at absurd speeds for fun and profit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 03:11:55 pm
Anyone else not able to update?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 17, 2013, 03:36:47 pm
There is no "update". You just download the new version whole from the store.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 17, 2013, 03:59:29 pm
Took me a few dozen tries getting the site to work though. Just keep refreshing that page baby ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 05:29:17 pm
so it IS from the store... wow. i have been messing it up a bit then...

so, what do you people think of the B9 Aerospace pack?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 17, 2013, 05:31:38 pm
The site seems to be working pretty consistently now.
I can navigate through everything without having to refresh at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 17, 2013, 06:14:04 pm
Got new version, been messing around with rover parts:

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2295/01mar171807.jpg)

Pictured is the freedom 1 Rover. I've decided to go with a Skycrane approach to getting this on the surface of the Mun. First attempt wasn't really successful: launch vehicle reached Mun pretty handily, but I ran out of fuel for the skycrane. Second attempt is gonna correct it by lowering orbit to 100,000 before deorbiting, + doubling the fuel(as pictured) for the skycrane


Edit: Goddamnit, the altimeter is off if you're not on Kerbal. Is there any good way to figure out distance to the ground so I know when to burn?(second attempt impacted at 20 m/s due to mis-estimating when to do final burn)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 06:52:29 pm
get a maned ship. they have radar thingies for determining height. in IVA.
anyone else notice the new launch pad? i just dont want to make sure that im crazy.
i cant spell today.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 17, 2013, 06:59:46 pm
Yes, there is a new launch pad, and they finally removed the damn tower.

And the pad looks awesome, to boot.


Also, how the hell do you get a rover off the lander vehicle without blowing it up? Experiments on Kerbin have yielded no successful results.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 07:25:05 pm
Tryrar, you might want to use the orange tanks between the grey ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 17, 2013, 08:17:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 07:25:05 pm
Tryrar, you might want to use the orange tanks between the grey ones.

Eh, I scrapped that skycrane design completely for a much more compact one:

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4524/03mar172012.jpg)

Behold the Freedom 2 Rover! I used a regular Octo probe core instead of the new compact one, so I could attach solar panels and antenna to it. The new, more compact Skycrane on top is also much more powerful(though it burns through fuel much quicker!), so last minute "OH SHIT" burns are possible. If I need more fuel, I'll just stack another ring or two of those orange fuel tanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 17, 2013, 08:25:38 pm
can you get some photos of it in action?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 17, 2013, 08:37:40 pm
....I would if this design actually worked. I mean, it can launch the freaking rover into the air on Kerbal, but can't slow down the rover at all trying to kill velocity approaching Mun surface. Dafuq?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 17, 2013, 09:49:36 pm
Using a new skycrane that combined features of the previous two, I set off! An uneventful journey to the Mun commences, and we achieve Mun orbit:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2827/05mar172131.jpg)


After a de=orbit burn, I start my descent:
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5857/06mar172132.jpg)

I kill velocity right before touchdown, cut the skycrane, and Sucess! My rover is on the Mun!(As you can see in the image, I accidentally broke one of the wheels by coming down a little sideways, but I still  have 5 more :P)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2640/07mar172136.jpg)

Now, driving on the Mun is a little touchy in the low gravity(especially with one wheel busted!), you absolutely CANNOT make sudden turns or accelerate too fast. I broke this rule and almost completely obliterated my rover when it flipped and tumbled forever :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 18, 2013, 01:42:53 am
Yeah, you need to mount the wheels midway, or even at the top, of the rover body to get a lower center of gravity, i think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 18, 2013, 02:12:47 am
Just a heads-up:
Servers seem to be stable now


EDIT: Found this while checking the Sub Rosa blog:
http://crypticsea.blogspot.dk/2013/03/dark-side-jam-rocket-builder.html

A very basic rocketbuilder, on a much smaller level than KSP.
It models liquids and gas as particles, it's basically an illustration of how rockets work in principal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 18, 2013, 04:50:23 am
Fresh off my success with the freedom rovers, I decided to try building a larger one with the standard sized wheels. Meet the Independence 1:
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1918/08mar172217bw.jpg)

I'm rather unsure if the new, larger skycrane's overkill or not, but hey, that's what testing is for :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2013, 05:29:34 am
I hate how rover on top of a rocket looks.

anyone with a good looking design? please share I have no idea left.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 18, 2013, 06:35:22 am
Independence 1 Before launch:
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4932/10mar180517.jpg)

We've achieved Mun orbit, beginning de-orbit burn:(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8593/11mar180531.jpg)

Touchdown! I released slightly too early and destroyed a wheel on impact, but it can still drive. Though, it wasn't stable enough to handle speed and eventually flipped, so the Independence 2 will have 6 wheels.

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9520/12mar180619.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 12:02:10 pm
Am I the only getting crashes when launching a second ship without restarting the game? I was hoping an update would fix it, but alas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on March 18, 2013, 12:09:59 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 12:02:10 pm
Am I the only getting crashes when launching a second ship without restarting the game? I was hoping an update would fix it, but alas.
What is the error message in output_log.txt at the moment of the crash?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 01:17:45 pm
Not sure. Might be this:
Code: [Select]
Could not allocate memory: System out of memory!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 18, 2013, 01:30:58 pm
How much RAM does your PC have? Because that's just a generic out of memory error.
Are you perhaps running it in some kind of contained environement. (Ie, anything that limits it's memory use)

Or maybe it's just a system specific memory leak, which would be strange.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 01:33:29 pm
Well, the strange thing is that my first launch never crashes the game, but if I launch something else it always crashes. I have to restart the game every time I go back to the space center.

Also found this:
Code: [Select]
Crash!!!
SymInit: Symbol-SearchPath: '.;C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win;C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\system32;SRV*C:\websymbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols;', symOptions: 530, UserName: 'User'
OS-Version: 6.0.6002 (Service Pack 2) 0x300-0x1
C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win\KSP.exe:KSP.exe (012E0000), size: 10665984 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win\KSP.exe', fileVersion: 4.0.1.62181
C:\Windows\system32\ntdll.dll:ntdll.dll (77B10000), size: 1212416 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\ntdll.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18541
C:\Windows\system32\kernel32.dll:kernel32.dll (75F80000), size: 901120 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\kernel32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18704
C:\Windows\system32\USER32.dll:USER32.dll (75E30000), size: 643072 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\USER32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\GDI32.dll:GDI32.dll (771F0000), size: 307200 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\GDI32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\ADVAPI32.dll:ADVAPI32.dll (76280000), size: 811008 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\ADVAPI32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\RPCRT4.dll:RPCRT4.dll (757A0000), size: 798720 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\RPCRT4.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18024
C:\Windows\system32\VERSION.dll:VERSION.dll (74E30000), size: 32768 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\VERSION.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\msvcrt.dll:msvcrt.dll (75ED0000), size: 696320 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\msvcrt.dll', fileVersion: 7.0.6002.18551
C:\Windows\system32\ole32.dll:ole32.dll (75CE0000), size: 1331200 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\ole32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18277
C:\Windows\system32\SHLWAPI.dll:SHLWAPI.dll (763D0000), size: 364544 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\SHLWAPI.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18738
C:\Windows\system32\SHELL32.dll:SHELL32.dll (76430000), size: 11603968 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\SHELL32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18646
C:\Windows\system32\OPENGL32.dll:OPENGL32.dll (5F110000), size: 831488 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\OPENGL32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\GLU32.dll:GLU32.dll (73DC0000), size: 143360 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\GLU32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\DDRAW.dll:DDRAW.dll (6D890000), size: 937984 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\DDRAW.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\DCIMAN32.dll:DCIMAN32.dll (6F710000), size: 24576 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\DCIMAN32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18051
C:\Windows\system32\SETUPAPI.dll:SETUPAPI.dll (76060000), size: 1613824 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\SETUPAPI.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\OLEAUT32.dll:OLEAUT32.dll (758F0000), size: 577536 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\OLEAUT32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18508
C:\Windows\system32\dwmapi.dll:dwmapi.dll (6F6F0000), size: 49152 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\dwmapi.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\WINMM.dll:WINMM.dll (73E80000), size: 204800 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WINMM.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18528
C:\Windows\system32\OLEACC.dll:OLEACC.dll (73E40000), size: 253952 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\OLEACC.dll', fileVersion: 7.0.6002.18508
C:\Windows\system32\WS2_32.dll:WS2_32.dll (75870000), size: 184320 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WS2_32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\NSI.dll:NSI.dll (77C40000), size: 24576 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\NSI.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\IMM32.dll:IMM32.dll (771D0000), size: 122880 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\IMM32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\MSCTF.dll:MSCTF.dll (77070000), size: 819200 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\MSCTF.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\DNSAPI.dll:DNSAPI.dll (75310000), size: 180224 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\DNSAPI.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18416
C:\Windows\system32\IPHLPAPI.DLL:IPHLPAPI.DLL (75030000), size: 102400 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\IPHLPAPI.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\dhcpcsvc.DLL:dhcpcsvc.DLL (74FF0000), size: 217088 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\dhcpcsvc.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\Secur32.dll:Secur32.dll (75630000), size: 81920 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\Secur32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18541
C:\Windows\system32\WINNSI.DLL:WINNSI.DLL (74FE0000), size: 28672 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WINNSI.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\dhcpcsvc6.DLL:dhcpcsvc6.DLL (74FB0000), size: 139264 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\dhcpcsvc6.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\WINHTTP.dll:WINHTTP.dll (72D50000), size: 393216 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WINHTTP.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18541
C:\Windows\system32\HID.DLL:HID.DLL (74910000), size: 36864 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\HID.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\MSACM32.dll:MSACM32.dll (72F20000), size: 81920 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\MSACM32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\LPK.DLL:LPK.DLL (772B0000), size: 36864 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\LPK.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18051
C:\Windows\system32\USP10.dll:USP10.dll (76350000), size: 512000 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\USP10.dll', fileVersion: 1.626.6002.18244
C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.6002.18305_none_5cb72f2a088b0ed3\comctl32.dll:comctl32.dll (745E0000), size: 1695744 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.6002.18305_none_5cb72f2a088b0ed3\comctl32.dll', fileVersion: 6.10.6002.18305
C:\Windows\system32\uxtheme.dll:uxtheme.dll (747F0000), size: 258048 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\uxtheme.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win\KSP_Data\Mono\mono.dll:mono.dll (10000000), size: 2269184 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Users\User\Desktop\KSP\KSP_win\KSP_Data\Mono\mono.dll'
C:\Windows\system32\PSAPI.DLL:PSAPI.DLL (75700000), size: 28672 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\PSAPI.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\MSWSOCK.dll:MSWSOCK.dll (74DC0000), size: 241664 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\MSWSOCK.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\d3d9.dll:d3d9.dll (67A70000), size: 1810432 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\d3d9.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\d3d8thk.dll:d3d8thk.dll (737F0000), size: 24576 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\d3d8thk.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\atiumdag.dll:atiumdag.dll (622D0000), size: 3874816 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\atiumdag.dll', fileVersion: 7.14.10.597
C:\Windows\system32\atiumdva.dll:atiumdva.dll (5D200000), size: 4517888 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\atiumdva.dll', fileVersion: 7.14.10.193
C:\Windows\system32\WINTRUST.dll:WINTRUST.dll (73EE0000), size: 184320 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WINTRUST.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18686
C:\Windows\system32\CRYPT32.dll:CRYPT32.dll (750D0000), size: 995328 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\CRYPT32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18643
C:\Windows\system32\MSASN1.dll:MSASN1.dll (75230000), size: 73728 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\MSASN1.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18106
C:\Windows\system32\USERENV.dll:USERENV.dll (75650000), size: 122880 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\USERENV.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\imagehlp.dll:imagehlp.dll (772C0000), size: 172032 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\imagehlp.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18592
C:\Windows\system32\wdmaud.drv:wdmaud.drv (732F0000), size: 192512 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wdmaud.drv', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\ksuser.dll:ksuser.dll (732E0000), size: 16384 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\ksuser.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\MMDevAPI.DLL:MMDevAPI.DLL (74270000), size: 163840 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\MMDevAPI.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\AVRT.dll:AVRT.dll (74840000), size: 28672 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\AVRT.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\AUDIOSES.DLL:AUDIOSES.DLL (731E0000), size: 135168 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\AUDIOSES.DLL', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\audioeng.dll:audioeng.dll (72F60000), size: 417792 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\audioeng.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\msacm32.drv:msacm32.drv (731D0000), size: 36864 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\msacm32.drv', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\midimap.dll:midimap.dll (72F10000), size: 28672 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\midimap.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\dsound.dll:dsound.dll (6A900000), size: 458752 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\dsound.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\POWRPROF.dll:POWRPROF.dll (74AA0000), size: 106496 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\POWRPROF.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\CLBCatQ.DLL:CLBCatQ.DLL (761F0000), size: 540672 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\CLBCatQ.DLL', fileVersion: 2001.12.6931.18000
C:\Windows\system32\xinput1_3.dll:xinput1_3.dll (07E90000), size: 90112 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\xinput1_3.dll', fileVersion: 9.18.944.0
C:\Windows\system32\wpclsp.dll:wpclsp.dll (749B0000), size: 81920 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wpclsp.dll', fileVersion: 1.0.0.1
C:\Windows\system32\NETAPI32.dll:NETAPI32.dll (75290000), size: 483328 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\NETAPI32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18659
C:\Windows\System32\wshtcpip.dll:wshtcpip.dll (74A80000), size: 20480 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\System32\wshtcpip.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\System32\wship6.dll:wship6.dll (74E20000), size: 20480 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\System32\wship6.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\NLAapi.dll:NLAapi.dll (74240000), size: 61440 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\NLAapi.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\napinsp.dll:napinsp.dll (71A70000), size: 61440 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\napinsp.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\pnrpnsp.dll:pnrpnsp.dll (71A30000), size: 73728 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\pnrpnsp.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\wbem\wbemprox.dll:wbemprox.dll (70C30000), size: 45056 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wbem\wbemprox.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\wbemcomn.dll:wbemcomn.dll (70220000), size: 372736 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wbemcomn.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\System32\winrnr.dll:winrnr.dll (71A60000), size: 32768 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\System32\winrnr.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\WLDAP32.dll:WLDAP32.dll (758A0000), size: 299008 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\WLDAP32.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\wshbth.dll:wshbth.dll (71A50000), size: 49152 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wshbth.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Program Files\Bonjour\mdnsNSP.dll:mdnsNSP.dll (71870000), size: 135168 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Program Files\Bonjour\mdnsNSP.dll', fileVersion: 3.0.0.10
C:\Windows\system32\rsaenh.dll:rsaenh.dll (74B40000), size: 241664 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\rsaenh.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\rasadhlp.dll:rasadhlp.dll (726C0000), size: 24576 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\rasadhlp.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6000.16386
C:\Windows\system32\wbem\wbemsvc.dll:wbemsvc.dll (6CE90000), size: 65536 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wbem\wbemsvc.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\wbem\fastprox.dll:fastprox.dll (6BF80000), size: 626688 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\wbem\fastprox.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6002.18005
C:\Windows\system32\NTDSAPI.dll:NTDSAPI.dll (75210000), size: 98304 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\NTDSAPI.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000
C:\Windows\system32\dbghelp.dll:dbghelp.dll (44440000), size: 901120 (result: 0), SymType: '-exported-', PDB: 'C:\Windows\system32\dbghelp.dll', fileVersion: 6.0.6001.18000

========== OUTPUTING STACK TRACE ==================

(0x0168E654) (KSP): (filename not available): RemapPPtrTransfer::TransferTypelessData + 0x61764
(0x01448809) (KSP): (filename not available): GameManager::PhysicsRaycastTest + 0x164b9
(0x01454F19) (KSP): (filename not available): MemLabelId::operator== + 0xf19
(0x0145557F) (KSP): (filename not available): MemLabelId::operator== + 0x157f
(0x014559F4) (KSP): (filename not available): MemLabelId::operator== + 0x19f4
(0x01454111) (KSP): (filename not available): MemLabelId::operator== + 0x111
(0x014FB401) (KSP): (filename not available): StreamedBinaryWrite<1>::TransferTypeless + 0x1631
(0x014FF685) (KSP): (filename not available): CacheReaderBase::~CacheReaderBase + 0x2955
(0x014AE9CC) (KSP): (filename not available): QuaternionToEuler + 0x2b70c
(0x014AEBA4) (KSP): (filename not available): QuaternionToEuler + 0x2b8e4
(0x015404CD) (KSP): (filename not available): PlayerMainWndProc + 0x5ad
(0x015417BF) (KSP): (filename not available): PlayerWinMain + 0x7df
(0x01663148) (KSP): (filename not available): RemapPPtrTransfer::TransferTypelessData + 0x36258
(0x016943C0) (KSP): (filename not available): RemapPPtrTransfer::TransferTypelessData + 0x674d0
(0x75FCD2E9) (kernel32): (filename not available): BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x12
(0x77B51603) (ntdll): (filename not available): RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 0x63
(0x77B515D6) (ntdll): (filename not available): RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 0x36

========== END OF STACKTRACE ===========

**** Crash! ****
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 18, 2013, 01:37:23 pm
Well, that kinda implies some kind of memory leak. Mayhaps the game fails to stop/finish/safe the first flight properly, so when you start another the whole thing crashes.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 01:48:01 pm
Found my problem (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/46182-Game-crashes-every-other-launch)

nope. did not fix it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on March 18, 2013, 02:01:13 pm
Dutchling, try to set lower graphic settings and/or delete unnecessary mods. In case of a memory leak, it'll make the game run a bit longer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 18, 2013, 02:12:04 pm
The game crashes during my second launch. Time is irrelevant. If my first launch is a ship that crashes before liftoff, the game will crash when I try to launch something else. If my ship works fine, I can go to Minmus, drive a rover around there for an hour or so, have dinner without closing KSP, and then go back to Kerbal. Without crashes. Unless I try to launch another ship without restarting the game.

And I do not use mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulufaic on March 18, 2013, 02:38:41 pm
I have the same problem, I hope they get the fix out soon, it just makes things unbearably tedious and I can't stand that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 18, 2013, 03:36:45 pm
Never happened to me...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 18, 2013, 04:04:35 pm
WOOOT! FINALLY, after countless tries, I've managed to dock my two space station halves together!!!!!!!


(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9581/14mar181559.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 18, 2013, 04:58:17 pm
doing better than me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 18, 2013, 05:11:04 pm
Protip; I you absolutely cannot for the life of you dock, go to kerbal spaceport and pick up the RCS autopilot+docking assistant. Makes docking maneuvers so much smoother(and if nothing else, it's worth it just for the docking camera!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on March 18, 2013, 05:24:30 pm
Gotta say, I'm liking this version a lot.

Spoiler: !!Airplane!! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 19, 2013, 10:03:57 am
Quote from: Pyre on March 18, 2013, 05:24:30 pm
Gotta say, I'm liking this version a lot.

Spoiler: !!Airplane!! (click to show/hide)

That's a lot of intakes. I'm almost surprised it doesn't flip out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 19, 2013, 10:38:07 am
Quick question: Is it possible to transfer crew between craft? I'm thinking of having a robotic command ship for my Mun Lander to cut down on crew requirements, and to be able to ditch the lander upon re-entry
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 19, 2013, 10:39:46 am
Well, you can EVA them from one craft and climb into the other. No direct transfer yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 19, 2013, 10:42:20 am
....about what I figured. Oh well, that'll work as well
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on March 19, 2013, 12:21:21 pm
Quote from: Twi on March 19, 2013, 10:03:57 am
That's a lot of intakes. I'm almost surprised it doesn't flip out.

It does actually. Below 300 m/s it tries to flip upwards, above 300 m/s it noses down. Only real way to stay in control is to use ASAS and adjust your heading as you go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 19, 2013, 03:35:51 pm
Doing a bit of abort sequence testing. After landing in the latest round, I looked around and noticed THIS(hint, look what's impaled in the ground in the background):
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5366/15mar191532.jpg)


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 19, 2013, 06:17:00 pm
Hi there, thing that looks kinda like an escape tower.
Meanwhile, 0.19.1 resulted in a flood of spaceplanery even though it only fixed a few bugs and rebalanced rover wheels! Yeah, I dunno.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I tried to do something like Pyre, but based it on the U-2. Or tried to, at any rate. This revealed one important fact: Red-hot wing-shaped boards look AWESOME.

Then I built the Utsuho II (reinstating the Touhou names), a spaceplane that was sort of like Laika in that it takes off on a rocket vertically, reenters and flies horizontally, and lands vertically again. Unlike Laika, however, it has actual jet engines and very little rocketry, relying mostly on its launch vehicle to get it into orbit. (Which it can, barely..)

Oh, and for some reason it seems to think that two jet engines are massively underpowered. I have no idea WHY they seem unable to get it moving, but such is life. Rapidly pitching up and down still works, though. Yay for KSP aerodynamics!
It also has landing gear in its tail. Check it out!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sadly, the one on the bottom is one of the few successful landings. I can get it down fine, but then it tends to fall over and fall apart. :V
So have a reentry shot (this is not the one that made it into full orbit, that one was surprisingly tame):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And proof of orbitability!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 06:41:14 pm
Are my rockets too simple?

Stage 1: 8 turbojets, each with their own T-200 fuel tank (so as to avoid liquid fuel/oxidizer mismatch in stage 2) to get way up in the atmosphere before starting the stage 2 launch rocket. Wings are on this stage and stage 2 exclusively.

Stage 2: A single mainsail with a single Rockomax 64 fuel tank. Gravity turn to 150,000, then circularize.

Stage 3: NERVA with 3 T200s around an (unused in this stage) T800. This stage can make it to orbit around Eve.

Stage 4: T800 after jettisoning the T200s. This stage was still more than half full while landing on Eve, so I figure I could probably make it to Jool (though probably not land on any of its moons!). There's an ASAS and SAS on this stage.

Stage 5: Just the cockpit and a parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 19, 2013, 06:57:41 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 06:41:14 pm
Stage 1: 8 turbojets, each with their own T-200 fuel tank (so as to avoid liquid fuel/oxidizer mismatch in stage 2) to get way up in the atmosphere before starting the stage 2 launch rocket. Wings are on this stage and stage 2 exclusively.


I should totally do that more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 07:01:35 pm
Yeah, JATO is pretty awesome in this. Ridiculously practical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on March 20, 2013, 03:01:46 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 06:41:14 pm
Stage 2: A single mainsail with a single Rockomax 64 fuel tank. Gravity turn to 150,000, then circularize.
At what altitude do you start the gravity yurn?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 20, 2013, 07:38:49 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 07:01:35 pm
Yeah, JATO is pretty awesome in this. Ridiculously practical.

Although one should note that launch clamps+ jet engines= sillyness, due to turbojets needing to spin up a good bit to lift a vessel of that size. Which I realized while making a mockup of the general concept.

Speaking of which, if one was able to make it so that you used a normal jet at low altitude and speed, and then switched to the turbojet as you got higher and faster (say, with bicouplers and action groups), would that be any more efficient and/or worth the trouble?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 09:06:02 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on March 20, 2013, 03:01:46 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 06:41:14 pm
Stage 2: A single mainsail with a single Rockomax 64 fuel tank. Gravity turn to 150,000, then circularize.
At what altitude do you start the gravity yurn?

Right before the jets run out of air, which is ~30-35000. The jets save on a ridiculous amount of fuel lost to air-based inefficiencies.

Quote from: Twi on March 20, 2013, 07:38:49 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 19, 2013, 07:01:35 pm
Yeah, JATO is pretty awesome in this. Ridiculously practical.
Speaking of which, if one was able to make it so that you used a normal jet at low altitude and speed, and then switched to the turbojet as you got higher and faster (say, with bicouplers and action groups), would that be any more efficient and/or worth the trouble?

No, not really.  The jets only use about 3/4 of their fuel by the time they become useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 20, 2013, 10:32:28 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 09:06:02 am


No, not really.  The jets only use about 3/4 of their fuel by the time they become useless.
If you do it that way, yeah, but there's a point at which turbojets become more useful than basic jets. Soooo....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 20, 2013, 10:33:13 am
Well, new game, trying to get my command vessel into space so I can launch my Mun lander to link up with it...well forgetting seperatrons means I did some accidental high altitude escape tower testing  :-[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 20, 2013, 11:07:09 am
It's time to play... Recognize that Robot!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot40.png)

Looks very Kerbal-esque, doesn't it? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 20, 2013, 11:19:19 am
"EVE-A!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 20, 2013, 12:42:24 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 20, 2013, 11:07:09 am
It's time to play... Recognize that Robot!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks very Kerbal-esque, doesn't it? :P

What Japa said. Could use more orange though. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 20, 2013, 02:22:57 pm
Not much orange in the parts available. I won't make it out of giant orange tanks, and it doesn't have any fuel to use the 24-77 engines, so..

Also, revision!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And yeah, this too:
Spoiler: Eve-AAh! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 02:37:20 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 02:29:16 pm
Watched a few videos where someone launched a vanilla carrier with torpedo launching fighter craft. Along with occasional battle scenes.
I demand links.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 20, 2013, 02:40:28 pm
Suddenly, me trying to build an SSTO.

(http://img.ie/images/3j23t.png)
From Russia with love! :P
The awkward construction is needed to house the probe, alas. Getting out is kinda tricky.

But it's also pretty pointless because this thing doesn't ever quite seem to have enough delta-v to get far out of the atmosphere. Also, for some reason, turning off the jet engines, even if the rocket is already on, sometimes causes it to spontaneously spin uncontrollably for some strange reason.  Not flaming out, mind. Just shutting them down. :<

I could stage the jets, but then it wouldn't be an SSTO. Heeeelp.

Quote from: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 02:37:20 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 02:29:16 pm
Watched a few videos where someone launched a vanilla carrier with torpedo launching fighter craft. Along with occasional battle scenes.
I demand links.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 02:55:44 pm
So... KSP will be on Steam :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 02:58:01 pm
Actually. It already IS on Steam. Now I'm just waiting for my Steam key :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 20, 2013, 03:08:58 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 02:53:55 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJYAyx91N5s

RECEIVE!

So awesome!
Hmm... He is not using that many rockets... I wonder if you could make it bigger?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 20, 2013, 03:13:00 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 03:09:56 pm
Probably, but it would probably also lag to buggery.
It already lags to buggery. I believe that he actually said that he might have to quit because of how bad it is.
More lag can't hurt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:21:49 pm
About this being on steam:
Please excuse me while I throw a mininuke at the moron person who decided that was a good idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 03:25:43 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 03:24:00 pm
You don't HAVE to get it on steam >.>

That's like hating someone for giving you the possibility to have a drink OR food, rather than just having a drink.
Yeah, but in this case the food is way better than the drink so it doesn't matter :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 20, 2013, 03:32:43 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:21:49 pm
About this being on steam:
Please excuse me while I throw a mininuke at the moron person who decided that was a good idea.
Well, excuse you, but it means I, at least, finally get to purchase the thing! :D Steam accepts WebMoney!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:41:50 pm
But its STEAM. they are even worse than EA! (99.9999999% of the time anyways...)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 03:44:28 pm
What's so bad about Steam? I've seen countless of anti-Steam threads in the Paradox forums and nobody ever seemed to have any good points. Sure, disabling patching and playing offline doesn't always work very well, but that is only an issue with games that have Steam DRM. Games without that, like KSP I assume, can just be copied to  another folder to avoid autopatching and they can be played without Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:48:24 pm
DRM, the fact that it is SLOW, the fact that even if the game is on the computer AND HAS ON ONLINE MODE YOU MUST BE LOGGED ON AND ON THE INTERNET, the fact that IT ALMOST NEVER LETS YOU ON...
shall I go on?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:49:26 pm
Ah, but if you DONT have a insanely stable high speed internet...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 20, 2013, 03:50:19 pm
In all my short time using Steam (versus time having it installed, heh), the only inconveniences it's made me endure is the periodic updating, and the occasional failure to enter offline mode. Which is annoying, and I think I'll kill TF2 (I don't play the thing anyway) to limit the download amounts, but... nothing outrageously wrong happened so far. The few games that weren't made available for my country just gave me more of an excuse to seek alternate distributors. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:51:47 pm
Im sorry if I rant too mutch, I really have had a bad time dealing with them.
I shall miss you Civ V...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 03:53:14 pm
Aseaheru, you only have to be logged in (or have Steam installed on your computer for that matter) if the game uses Steam DRM. Not all games use it,  most if not all Paradox games don't, and I doubt KSP will use it either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 20, 2013, 03:58:18 pm
It will, obviously, not use the Steam overlay that way. But this might actually be preferable in a game like KSP. It's slow enough as it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 20, 2013, 04:42:23 pm
Also, when's the last time you used it. They patched the offline mode about half a year/ a year ago, and it should now work most of the times. Not always, but often.

Oh, and I highly suspect this'll be something similair to what egosoft did with X3, ie completely optional. Backlash would be to big otherwise.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on March 20, 2013, 05:00:31 pm
Add to the derail!

I spent three months in Afghanistan with literally the shittiest, least reliable internet known to man. Zero problem playing my Steam games. Most of the time Steam was left in offline mode, of course, but I literally had no problems.

On the rare occasion where I did want to download a game from Steam while out there, the service was more reliable than most other internet sites/downloads/what ever. Steam didn't care that I got disconnected every three minutes.

If nothing else, I am excited to see how many hours I have played in KSP when it gets on Steam.

Anyways, back to the REAL topic here. Did the new patch increase the frame rate at all? KSP simply isn't playable for me and I have a pretty decent computer. With the sound popping every 7 seconds, 7 minutes of takeoff taking 30 minutes to render, and exploding on the 6th minute, I can't bring myself to try building anything interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 06:04:57 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 03:48:24 pm
DRM, the fact that it is SLOW, the fact that even if the game is on the computer AND HAS ON ONLINE MODE YOU MUST BE LOGGED ON AND ON THE INTERNET, the fact that IT ALMOST NEVER LETS YOU ON...
shall I go on?

1. That's a user issue.

2. That's not even remotely true. My brother played 25 hours of Borderlands 2 on steam with no internet connection on offline mode.

3. It always lets me on fine. Seems like a user error.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 06:11:09 pm
Who knows? If it's on Steam, it might be easier to update :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 20, 2013, 06:14:06 pm
The intro video is amusing.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 07:21:01 pm
OK.
I DONOT think everyone has the issues I do.
The fact that it got patched is USELESS as my account got killed by them FOR NOTHING (really. i cant get anything and the only things i had done on there was installing (and briefly playing) a NEW copy of Civ V)
Also, thank you dutchling for that info. I wish i knew that a year ago but... oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 07:29:58 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 07:21:01 pm
my account got killed by them FOR NOTHING (really. i cant get anything and the only things i had done on there was installing (and briefly playing) a NEW copy of Civ V)

Did you ask them? Because they are very responsive to issues like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 20, 2013, 07:43:36 pm
Quote from: ank on March 20, 2013, 03:08:58 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 20, 2013, 02:53:55 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJYAyx91N5s

RECEIVE!

So awesome!
Hmm... He is not using that many rockets... I wonder if you could make it bigger?


I second the pure awesomeness of this. Of course, I'm now tempted to do something like this even though I know I'd fail horribly trying...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 07:46:12 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 07:29:58 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 07:21:01 pm
my account got killed by them FOR NOTHING (really. i cant get anything and the only things i had done on there was installing (and briefly playing) a NEW copy of Civ V)

Did you ask them? Because they are very responsive to issues like that.
Tried but could not get in. another reason why i dislike them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 20, 2013, 07:52:16 pm
"Could not get in"? What did you try?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 20, 2013, 07:52:48 pm
official support.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 20, 2013, 08:18:11 pm
Welp, anywho here's the start of my Mun Lander mission. Introducing the Odin-1 Command Vessel!

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5812/17mar201958.jpg)

I'm pretty certain I have FAR more fuel than neccessary for a simple Mun mission, the idea is to have a command vessel capable of far more than going to the Mun....

And here it is in orbit!

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7039/18mar202012.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 20, 2013, 09:11:56 pm
I have successfully landed my first Muen-Rover! It was via skycrane and used a lot of quick-saving, but in the end, it worked!

I have nicknamed it, Buddy-Rover. It is a tiny, nuclear powered rover.

Pictures:

Spoiler: For Art (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: And For Science (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Top-down view for any who are curious as to what the rover is made of. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Buddy-Rover's Planned Destination (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 09:34:10 pm
I take it the "eyes" are headlamps of some kind?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 20, 2013, 09:59:18 pm
Quote from: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 09:34:10 pm
I take it the "eyes" are headlamps of some kind?
They are "Illuminator mk1" stock lights. They're basically the reason I call it Buddy-Rover
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 20, 2013, 10:04:45 pm
I haven't had time to update yet, so all of these new stock parts are things I just don't recognize.

Can't wait to fool around with these rovers. Maybe they'll be easier than docking or flying to other planets :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 21, 2013, 12:05:19 am
Wait, did we really get like proper rover wheels, an not 'rocket wheels'?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 21, 2013, 12:14:48 am
Proper motorized and steerable wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: yarr on March 21, 2013, 02:00:42 am
So guys, I bought this game some time ago and tried the latest version again.
I mean it was fun at first, building rockets and failing, but now I don't really know what to do. Okay, I can get to the mun or some other strange planet and then? There is really nothing to do there?

I heard something about minining resources there, but I don't know if it's a mod or something that will appear in the vanilla game in a future update.

Yea I know it's supposed to be a sandbox game, but shouldn't there be a *little* more to it than just building rockets/spaceships?
Or am I just missing something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jehdin on March 21, 2013, 02:29:59 am
I'm in the same boat, I got bored with building stuff a while ago and right now there's very little reason to continue and almost nothing else to do.

One thing to keep in mind is that it's still early in development and they do plan on making it into an actual game at some point.

Oh, and they are adding mining in the vanilla game in the next update, I think. There's a mod for it right now but I have no idea what it's called.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronyOwl on March 21, 2013, 02:35:54 am
I don't know either, but I've heard Kethane mentioned, so a search for that might give you the mod that includes it (a quick search reveals that there is something called a Kethane Pack, though I don't know if that's the mod or collection of mods or what).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 21, 2013, 03:07:13 am
Quote from: yarr on March 21, 2013, 02:00:42 am
So guys, I bought this game some time ago and tried the latest version again.
I mean it was fun at first, building rockets and failing, but now I don't really know what to do. Okay, I can get to the mun or some other strange planet and then?

then land on it? land on it and its moon? land and come back?

But yes, there isn't anything else, will be added in the future, i'd say come back in 3 months for a resource and resource gathering (eg space mining) system to be implemented in the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 21, 2013, 03:07:46 am
As for what to do - it's the same as Dwarf Fortress. Build bigger till you fail, then redo what you built so it works, then build bigger still.

See if you can make interesting designs. See if you can recreate existing spacecraft. See if you can complete some of the challenges on the KSP forums. I'd say that the sky's the limit, but then again it's not exactly true here, is it? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on March 21, 2013, 03:12:20 am
My first rover design... didn't quite work as intended. It doesn't have much traction on the moon, so it can't really accelerate, and is horribly unstable once it gets moving.

Spoiler: Rover (click to show/hide)

Ah well, back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 21, 2013, 03:17:46 am
Quote from: yarr on March 21, 2013, 02:00:42 am
Yea I know it's supposed to be a sandbox game, but shouldn't there be a *little* more to it than just building rockets/spaceships?
Or am I just missing something?

There will be more than just that (researching new parts, objectives and scenarios etc), but the game is not actually finished yet.

If you want more now, try self-imposed goals. Make a orbiter-and-docking Mun lander, a giant refueling space station etc.

Quote from: Kanil on March 21, 2013, 03:12:20 am
My first rover design... didn't quite work as intended. It doesn't have much traction on the moon, so it can't really accelerate, and is horribly unstable once it gets moving.

Maby part of the reason is your kerbal can only see floor :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on March 21, 2013, 03:28:35 am
The way it flips, tumbles, rolls, and bounces around once it gets going... I think he probably prefers just seeing the floor, really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 21, 2013, 06:01:03 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 21, 2013, 12:05:19 am
Wait, did we really get like proper rover wheels, an not 'rocket wheels'?
Yep. They can even be damaged by impacts and kerbals can EVA to repair them. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 21, 2013, 06:53:29 am
Spoiler: This might be a tad too fast... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Here's to a soft landing.. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ouch. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Well, any landing you can walk/drive away from... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And inside box #1 is... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ..our mostly lovable robot. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Catching the last of the Sun's rays.. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ..and just having fun. (click to show/hide)

Craft file for the whole thing, all stock. (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/WAKK-E%20PODROCKET.craft)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 21, 2013, 07:08:01 am
Quote from: yarr on March 21, 2013, 02:00:42 am
Yea I know it's supposed to be a sandbox game, but shouldn't there be a *little* more to it than just building rockets/spaceships?
Or am I just missing something?
Maybe try some challenges? The official forums have many of them, with great variety.
There is a ton of things to learn about the game or space flight in general to be interested for a long time.

I have spent countless hours on this game even thou i'm yet to create a space station or land and return from Duna.
For example a challenge of designing mission to Tylo (Jool's moon with almost Kerbin like gravity and no atmosphere to do a areobrake) and back in least amount of stock parts (before docking patch) took me around 30hours in total (it was a 74part craft with total Dv above 10km/s and in the end i finished with only 30L of fuel in tank).
There are also already designed challenges like Pentathlon (5 different mission with varying objectives) that are just fun to try out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 21, 2013, 11:15:49 am
Couple of stories unfortunately lacking screenshots.

First story starts with another story from history.

Quote from: Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber)
...a routine training flight, conducting aerial combat maneuvers, on February 2, 1970 ended when the aircraft entered a flat spin. The pilot, Gary Foust, attempted to recover, including the desperation move of deploying the aircraft's drag chute; however recovery proved to be impossible, and Foust fired his ejection seat and escaped the stricken aircraft at an altitude of 15,000 feet (4,600 m).
The reduction in weight and change in center of gravity caused by the removal of Foust and the ejection seat, however, caused the aircraft, trimmed for takeoff and with the throttle at idle, to successfully recover itself from the spin. One of the other pilots on the mission is reported to have radioed Foust during his descent under his parachute that "you'd better get back in it!". Foust watched incredulously as the now-pilotless aircraft descended and skidded to a halt in a farmer's field near Big Sandy, Montana...

...The damage to the aircraft was minimal; indeed, one officer on the recovery crew is reported to have stated that were there any less damage he would have simply flown the aircraft out of the field.

I had attempted a turbojet assisted rocket plane and had successfully flown beyond 25km before the engines cut out, putting me into a spin. With the help of the rocket motor, I recovered from the spin, ejected the jet engines and made my way to the secondary airstrip on the island. This plane's design was influenced by recent designs on here and thus was a vertical landing plane on 4 legs. For safety the cockpit could eject. I'd made it all the way to the strip and had about 30 seconds of fuel to land, but at low speeds the plane just didn't want to work with me and at about 500m I ejected the cockpit and the kerbal safely. Even after the kerbal had landed though the remains of the plane continued to float around in the air, making dives at the ground but taking forever to reach it. Finally one low, slow swoop took it into a shallow hill side, nose into the air where the struts contacted the ground and it rested on two legs for several seconds before finally tipping over and resting on two legs and a wing. No damage sustained other than from the ejection.


Second less comical, but I simply sent a single orange tank fuel depot into space. Scratch design, second try(after the first blew up shortly after launch and extra duct tape was added) the tank got up there, final stage shut down with a periapsis at about 10km. Stage ejected to burn up on its own, a final nudge using very little fuel put the depot into orbit. It's just so satisfying when things work out so well without dozens of tries.

As for the "more to it" thing. There's a career mode planned eventually. Evidence is already sneaking in here and there, most obviously with the grayed out option when you start a new game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on March 21, 2013, 11:44:11 am
Quote from: greatorder on March 21, 2013, 11:43:17 am
I'm now attempting to create my own carrier.

The engine stage failed. Got to space, but as soon as the engines went off, the entire thing spontaneously exploded and fell apart.

how did you get to space without engines

teach me your ways, wizard
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 21, 2013, 03:34:35 pm
Kanil, the reason your rover is highly unstable is because the wheels are too big. For a rover of that size, you want to use the tiny wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on March 21, 2013, 03:35:43 pm
Nonsense. I just need to make it bigger.  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on March 21, 2013, 04:03:06 pm
So how does one go about getting a rover into space (only just got the update)? Do you just plonk it on the top of your rocket or is there some way of containing it in a box for protection or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 04:05:28 pm
I do the former.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 21, 2013, 04:19:16 pm
Plonk on rocket, deliver with skycrane.

Speaking of rovers, I have learned the limits of Buddy-Rover. Its max speed that it can travel at is ~20-21 m/S, as the wheels start to break at around this point.

Also, breaking/reversing while going at ~17 m/S down hill in translation mode causes it to flip and then proceed to break due to the high speeds.

YAY QUICKSAVING!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 04:21:07 pm
You supposedly can fix wheels in EVA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 21, 2013, 04:21:47 pm
the medium ones. never had the others break except when they break off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 21, 2013, 04:49:19 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 04:21:07 pm
You supposedly can fix wheels in EVA.
Except that this is a completely unmanned probe-rover.

I suppose the name Buddy-Rover is misleading.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 21, 2013, 04:50:54 pm
use 6 when you use the tiny one. 8 if you can.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 21, 2013, 05:00:12 pm
I seem to get pretty bad lag after a certain altitude.
Anyone else getting that problem?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 21, 2013, 05:00:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 21, 2013, 06:53:29 am
Spoiler: This might be a tad too fast... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Here's to a soft landing.. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ouch. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Well, any landing you can walk/drive away from... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And inside box #1 is... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ..our mostly lovable robot. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Catching the last of the Sun's rays.. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ..and just having fun. (click to show/hide)

Craft file for the whole thing, all stock. (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/WAKK-E%20PODROCKET.craft)
That thing... WAll-E? is that you o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 21, 2013, 05:05:36 pm
Anyone else unable to see those images?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 21, 2013, 05:05:45 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 21, 2013, 04:50:54 pm
use 6 when you use the tiny one. 8 if you can.
I am using 6 wheels, I suppose I should mention I posted about the rover on page 278.

It was just that it was going too fast, but after some quick-saving an what not, I have figured out a way to break so that it doesn't cause it to flip, so all is well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 21, 2013, 05:06:29 pm
ah. my bad...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 21, 2013, 06:20:29 pm
I'm pretty terrible at this game, so I felt really proud with what I did today :P

All I wanted to do is get a satellite in orbit. I built the core and associated rocket from scratch and launched it. It started pretty well and steady, but once the solid boosters detached and I began my gravity turn the whole thing began wobbling despite an ASAS and winglets. Nevertheless, I managed to get the whole thing into a slightly lopsided orbit and began using the final stage to fine-tune it.

As I basked in the (meager) glory, I watched the Mun go over the horizon, and my brain began scheming. A quick check revealed that I was approaching the point where I could begin a Munar burn if I wanted. I decided "why the hell not?" and did so. I totally lucked out timed it to a thing of beauty, coming in neatly on the far side of the Mun at a nice 200,000km periapsis. I had more than enough fuel to slow down and equalize my orbit. In fact, there's still enough fuel left for me to crash back on Kerbin if I wanted, though orbit is probably out of the question.

But that is not what I want. I have a satellite in orbit around the Mun, a tested design that can easily reach Minmus if I desired, and the makings of a solid interplanetary probe. Not bad for an hour of fooling around by the seat of my pants! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 06:38:23 pm
Hah, nice.

I just got a little base on Mun. Got a lot of Monopropelant for future rovers, and space for four Kerbals. It's unmanned for now though. On the same rocket was also a probe which now orbits Mun.

Getting to Mun never gave me any problems, just use Nuclear Engines (you'll always have enough fuel) and muck around a little with maneuvers until it tells you there'll be an intersect. Easy as hell.

The harder bit is landing in Mun :/. Especially if I fail to kill horizontal velocity and end up doing a belly landing which generally leads to explosions and a lot more fun stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on March 21, 2013, 06:49:28 pm
Behold, a much more practical rover than my previous one! I just finished a 20 km drive with it, it's reasonably functional.

Spoiler: Overview (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: To the Mun! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Driving to the other rover (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And arrival... (click to show/hide)

Now to build a six wheeled one with a habitat module, for longer trips.
Edit:
Spoiler: Perhaps this? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 09:10:14 pm
I just realized that with the new rover wheels I don't even need a Monopropelant fueling station on Mun ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 21, 2013, 09:17:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 21, 2013, 09:10:14 pm
I just realized that with the new rover wheels I don't even need a Monopropelant fueling station on Mun ;_;
Could still be useful to top off any landers. And maybe rovers can still use RCS to get over steep hills or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 21, 2013, 09:27:31 pm
So I came across this article:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-03/most-powerful-space-rocket
Then I read the first comment.
Quote
03/14/13 at 2:44 pm
better question....can i use this design in kerbal space program....
Challenge accepted.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

27 engines, aligned in 3 identical bodies of 9 each, with crossfeed from the outer 2 bodies to the inner body. It just barely gets off the ground, managing to make it to orbit very easily (though slowly), and being surprisingly stable for a 27-engine design.
Burn time is approximately 7:20, completing at a height of 400km at 3720 m/s if launched entirely vertical. Enough for inter-planetary journeys without use of the top stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 21, 2013, 09:50:58 pm
Quote from: alway on March 21, 2013, 09:27:31 pm
So I came across this article:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-03/most-powerful-space-rocket
Then I read the first comment.
Quote
03/14/13 at 2:44 pm
better question....can i use this design in kerbal space program....
Challenge accepted.
The big question, though: How much fuel does it have once it's in orbit, and how much of a load can it carry?

In either case, I suggest re-trying and modifying.  Instead of 3 engines, do 4.  Remove the center and add 2 more outer, and then in the now-empty center column, add a payload to be lifted.  Lift a while train car!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 21, 2013, 10:31:25 pm
It pretty much requires all the rockets to get up; it's barely get more thrust than weight.

That said, I'm currently testing a 5-body design, which appears to be very successful (and laggy). It should result in longer burn times and higher thrust : weight ratios. It may make for a very good fuel to orbit craft, as the center will be just about full in orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 21, 2013, 10:33:30 pm
For something like this, you may even attempt some turbojet boosters - just strap some atmospheric engines around the outside and ditch them around 15,000m or so?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 21, 2013, 10:37:21 pm
I ditch my JATO whosits at 20-30,000
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 21, 2013, 10:53:26 pm
So, looks like the 5-body version can make a perfect 200km orbit with over 5k liquid fuel + 6k oxidizer left.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 21, 2013, 11:01:33 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 21, 2013, 10:37:21 pm
I ditch my JATO whosits at 20-30,000

My recent experiments tend towards 15,000-20,000. Higher is of course better, but I'm not good at judging when I need to switch to rockets and/or throttle down to avoid flaming the hell out. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 21, 2013, 11:25:43 pm
So the 5-body model works pretty well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 21, 2013, 11:26:47 pm
Impressive!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 21, 2013, 11:27:41 pm
Mmm, that is a straight-ass path.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 21, 2013, 11:40:58 pm
Yeah, that was using all fuel, including that in the top stage. Velocity as it left the system was about 7000m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 22, 2013, 01:12:02 am
While i dont know much about rocket science, i was thinking if your TWR ratio is not high enough at launch, dont you loose DeltaV due to gravity?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 22, 2013, 01:15:06 am
Yes, although I've seen particularly massive rockets that actually lift a few seconds after engine ignite - they have to burn some fuel before they're able to lift, the lowered weight allows them to achieve liftoff.  For most of these, once they do start moving, then they keep moving for a long time, and once they break atmosphere they've got a LOT less drag and a lot more raw power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 22, 2013, 01:28:45 am
Yeah; it likely would be better if I removed a layer of fuel from the stacks.


However... Holy balls, found these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJYAyx91N5s&list=PLnfM-w9LSGDtzy3R6gdsFO4apdt-tNolf
Massive orbital carrier + shenanigans.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 22, 2013, 01:29:39 am
Just as a note, it isn't the most powerfull space rocket ever flown. Just the most powerfull rocket currently in operation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 22, 2013, 02:02:22 am
Quote from: Sirus on March 21, 2013, 06:20:29 pm
All I wanted to do is get a satellite in orbit. I built the core and associated rocket from scratch and launched it. It started pretty well and steady, but once the solid boosters detached and I began my gravity turn the whole thing began wobbling despite Because of an ASAS and winglets.

*Fixed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 22, 2013, 02:03:27 am
Sooo awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgzHLUXIFiY&list=PLnfM-w9LSGDtzy3R6gdsFO4apdt-tNolf
Space battles with fighters + carriers with no mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 22, 2013, 02:34:37 am
Quote from: ank on March 22, 2013, 02:02:22 am
Quote from: Sirus on March 21, 2013, 06:20:29 pm
All I wanted to do is get a satellite in orbit. I built the core and associated rocket from scratch and launched it. It started pretty well and steady, but once the solid boosters detached and I began my gravity turn the whole thing began wobbling despite Because of an ASAS and winglets.

*Fixed
Wait, since when do those things cause wobbliness? I remember that they also seemed to help get my ships in orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 22, 2013, 02:45:46 am
Depends on the setup. If your ship is a little too bendy (or just unlucky), ASAS will wobble it all over the place. It'll try to hold the course, but...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on March 22, 2013, 03:39:29 am
Quote from: alway on March 22, 2013, 02:03:27 am
Sooo awesome.

This guy's channel is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 22, 2013, 05:11:30 am
Quote from: Sirus on March 22, 2013, 02:34:37 am
Wait, since when do those things cause wobbliness? I remember that they also seemed to help get my ships in orbit.

Generally winglets/control surfaces and ASAS are not good friends.
Here is the internal monologue I imagine the ASAS module must be thinking:

*Heading one arc second too high*
"WING TO FULL DOWN!!!!"
*heading now off by 5 arc seconds too low*
"WING TO FULL UP!!!!!!!"

This repeats forever, 10 times a second.

If you are making a balanced rocket there will be no need for winglets anyways, the gimbals are more than enough to steer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2013, 06:57:51 am
it gets more marked the more the ship bend

the asas takes the ship angle to correct from the nose, and if the ships bends because of its weight then the asas will overcorrect
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 22, 2013, 08:51:34 am
Time to take 0.19.1 for a spin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2013, 10:10:54 am
add this on top http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/40116-0-19-Chatterer-v-0-3-1

random babbling from kerbalnauts  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 22, 2013, 10:39:50 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2013, 10:10:54 am
add this on top http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/40116-0-19-Chatterer-v-0-3-1

random babbling from kerbalnauts  :o
Please say that they start screaming or panicking when things go horribly wrong :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on March 22, 2013, 11:39:05 am
Quote from: Sirus on March 22, 2013, 10:39:50 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2013, 10:10:54 am
add this on top http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/40116-0-19-Chatterer-v-0-3-1

random babbling from kerbalnauts  :o
Please say that they start screaming or panicking when things go horribly wrong :o

"In space, no one can hear you scream."

Ground Control: "Yes we can! It was HORRIBLE."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 22, 2013, 02:07:49 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on March 22, 2013, 11:39:05 am
Quote from: Sirus on March 22, 2013, 10:39:50 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2013, 10:10:54 am
add this on top http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/40116-0-19-Chatterer-v-0-3-1

random babbling from kerbalnauts  :o
Please say that they start screaming or panicking when things go horribly wrong :o

"In space, no one can hear you scream."

Ground Control: "Yes we can! It was HORRIBLE."
I want this as a quote but I dont have space...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on March 22, 2013, 02:54:28 pm
To quote that SpaceX Falcon Heavy

Quote
3) CENTER CORE
For payloads heavier than 100,000 pounds, Falcon Heavy uses a cross-feed system to run fuel from the side cores to the center core, leaving the center core almost fully fueled after the side boosters separate. What’s left is the equivalent of a complete Falcon 9 rocket already high in space.

This is the most important concept for putting heavier payloads into orbit. Design a rocket that works well and then feed it from side cores. When the side cores burn out you have a good rocket already high up in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on March 22, 2013, 03:03:12 pm
Quote from: Fikes on March 22, 2013, 02:54:28 pm
To quote that SpaceX Falcon Heavy

Quote
3) CENTER CORE
For payloads heavier than 100,000 pounds, Falcon Heavy uses a cross-feed system to run fuel from the side cores to the center core, leaving the center core almost fully fueled after the side boosters separate. What’s left is the equivalent of a complete Falcon 9 rocket already high in space.

This is the most important concept for putting heavier payloads into orbit. Design a rocket that works well and then feed it from side cores. When the side cores burn out you have a good rocket already high up in space.

The Asparagus Stalk?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 22, 2013, 03:04:13 pm
Guess what? Today, I'm not going to give you a reentry montage!

Instead, I'm going to give you the best use of rovers: BULLDOZERS! A fun way to get rid of that nasty, lag-causing debris around Kerbal Space Center.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now with more glitches!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And now with excessive hugenormous-ness! That first pic is a shot of it pushing a slightly earlier iteration of itself, by the way. The front end of the bucket-dozer-plow-thing sadly fell off after that. Suffice to say, the Pyth got too large for its own good, all the way from its humble beginnings as a simple target to ram projectiles into at high speeds. Hell, it lags this beefy gaming laptop when it loads in!

Note: The structural fuselages are there because those structure plates tend to get all tangled up in each other. So if I didn't have those and I tried to push a big gray metal box, there's a decent chance it would get stuck to the vehicle. Not good!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A more reasonable (and manned) pushy-thing, the Matador.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It still has the capacity to go horribly wrong, luckily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 22, 2013, 03:09:56 pm
Quote from: Fikes on March 22, 2013, 02:54:28 pm
To quote that SpaceX Falcon Heavy

Quote
3) CENTER CORE
For payloads heavier than 100,000 pounds, Falcon Heavy uses a cross-feed system to run fuel from the side cores to the center core, leaving the center core almost fully fueled after the side boosters separate. What’s left is the equivalent of a complete Falcon 9 rocket already high in space.

This is the most important concept for putting heavier payloads into orbit. Design a rocket that works well and then feed it from side cores. When the side cores burn out you have a good rocket already high up in space.
Or, in KSP fan-terms, Asparagus Staging. Or in layman's terms, rocket-propelled drop tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 22, 2013, 03:16:56 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 22, 2013, 03:09:56 pm
rocket-propelled drop tanks.

Do you have any idea how awesome that sounds?!?

That sounds MUCH better than asparagus!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 22, 2013, 03:48:40 pm
For reference, the importance of Asparagus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en4n8fsKWXA
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 22, 2013, 05:28:11 pm
Spoiler: Beep Beep Boop (click to show/hide)

Alright, update on Buddy-Rover. I basically spent most of yesterday getting it to the edge of the target crater and a bit of today getting it down a nightmare slope.

Spoiler: Map of Buddy-Rover's Progress (click to show/hide)

The slope wasn't as steep or defined as I thought it would be, which I suppose is a good thing.

My current plan with the rover is to send it to the target location to scout around the area a bit, seeing how hilly it is and so on. After that I plan to assemble a Muen base at the location.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on March 22, 2013, 09:11:57 pm
Challenge accepted.

Alright, so I decided to pull through with driving Buddy-Rover, and I have finally reached the target location. At the top of a mountain, it sits with its breaks ever on, and it has become, the Muen's buddy.

My hypothesis about the crater is that Buddy-Rover sits on the central mound of a crater that formed from a impact inside the larger crater.

I should also note that the peak is surprisingly flat. I was planning on building the Muen base at the base of the central mound, but maybe I can try and build it on the top of the mound.

Spoiler: Behold, the Mighty Mountain (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: And Thus He Rests, for Forever More (click to show/hide)

It's really hard to show how impressive the mountain/mound is with pictures. In the second image the rover is literally 9 pixels in size and you can barely see the full scope of the mound.

Spoiler: Scientific readings (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: HFS on March 22, 2013, 10:35:53 pm
So, I got the game, built my first serious rocket.

Spoiler: The Result (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Better quality and less skype usernames
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 23, 2013, 12:46:10 am
Got the core of my space station into orbit today. Sadly, that was the only thing that went right.

Multiple attempts to get a couple of orange fuel tanks and some scientific equipment up to the station ended in failure, all of them before the ship even left atmo. Whether they failed to leave the launch pad, overheated, or simply went kablooie when attempting a gravity turn, not a single ship made it above 30km.

Then I tried to go smaller: single-man rockets to practice docking. Couldn't even get within 20km of the station, despite my map and maneuvers assuring me that I'd end up within 4km or so.

Finally, I decided to give the Mun landing scenario a shot. First go: as the scenario loaded, the landing legs snapped off instantly despite being in stable orbit. Second go: Failed to slow down sufficiently. Jeb and Bill became stains on the Munar surface.

RAGE QUIT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on March 23, 2013, 01:26:00 am
DL'ed the new version yesterday. Been trying to get the feel again, with probes. Thank Kerbol for the probes! they saved so many lifes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PanH on March 23, 2013, 01:44:14 am

So, finally bought the game with Steam. Had a bit of hard time at first (until I understood orbits). I made a satellite in Earth's orbit, a manned mission around Earth, and managed to put a satellite in orbit of the moon !

This game is horribly chronophage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on March 23, 2013, 01:53:39 am
So I'm having a minor problem, and being unknowledgable in math, or any space-related things, I'm unsure how to do it.
I have a space station in orbit ready to be docked permanently with a lesser module. The new module is currently in a *very* similiar orbit to the current station, and has some fuel for manuevering in-orbit.

My problem is, both ships are going at the exact same speed and I don't know how to get them within distance of each other without completely destroying the current ship's orbit. Any help?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 23, 2013, 02:22:22 am
Make one have a slightly different orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on March 23, 2013, 02:31:52 am
Lowering orbit you decrease length of orbit to catch up the station and increasing lengthen it if target is behind.
No math really needed to do the burns, just don't over shoot it when getting again in same orbit as station to dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 23, 2013, 03:52:45 am
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on March 23, 2013, 01:53:39 am
So I'm having a minor problem, and being unknowledgable in math, or any space-related things, I'm unsure how to do it.
I have a space station in orbit ready to be docked permanently with a lesser module. The new module is currently in a *very* similiar orbit to the current station, and has some fuel for manuevering in-orbit.

My problem is, both ships are going at the exact same speed and I don't know how to get them within distance of each other without completely destroying the current ship's orbit. Any help?
Fun tip about orbital mechanics: if you want to go slower, speed up. If you want to go faster, slow down. See which craft has more fuel for maneuvers, and work from there.

If you choose the craft that needs to "catch up", wait till it's in the orbit's periapsis and do a little burn retrograde - that is, away from the target ahead of it. Might seem counterintuitive, but they're both orbiting the planet - and slowing down will make an orbit shorter. With every orbit around the planet, you will be closer to the target at the intersection point. Just fine-tune the final orbit so that you end up as close to the target as you need, and then equalize velocities again.

If you don't have enough altitude to lower an orbit, don't want to wait a few orbits to catch up, or just want to use the craft that is ahead of the other one, you can instead burn prograde with it at the periapsis. Select the other craft as target, and extend your orbit out until you get a near enough intersect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 23, 2013, 08:05:41 am
Quote from: PanH on March 23, 2013, 01:44:14 am

So, finally bought the game with Steam. Had a bit of hard time at first (until I understood orbits). I made a satellite in Kerbin's orbit, a manned mission around Kerbin, and managed to put a satellite in orbit of the mün !

This game is horribly chronophage.

FTFY.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 23, 2013, 09:39:56 am
i think its the circle one.
or the other one.
one is the target's location now and the other is its momentum. i think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 23, 2013, 10:38:02 am
Yellow circle with handlebars is your prograde marker - that's where you're going. Yellow circle with diagonal cross is your retrograde marker - that's away from where you're going. Purple rectangularish reticule is the target indicator - that's the direction your target is at. Purple diagonal cross reticule is the inverse target indicator - that's away from where your target is at.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 23, 2013, 11:02:17 am
i think they come in pink...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PanH on March 23, 2013, 11:06:08 am
There's greens and pink markers. But they're explained in Orbit 101.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on March 24, 2013, 12:52:08 am
So just now I did the orbiting and Mun tutorials.

Good grief. They were useful.
Time to get a circular orbit without mechjeb, and then orbit the Mun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 24, 2013, 02:24:22 am
Spoiler: I know its cold Bill, but are you sure that thing is safe? (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oh no (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You win again, Newton (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 24, 2013, 02:44:09 am
Based on the discoveries of my previous post I present:...

The Cannon:

Spoiler: The cannon, with victim making his way up (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: WWWWEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: World record! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 24, 2013, 10:05:20 am
So I did some messing about with mods.
Most notably, Faring Factory! Because reentry. It even has a pitch-black heatshield texture option.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tiny rocket plane is more rocket than plane, but I couldn't fit jets or reasonably sized wings because I hadn't yet figured out how to zoom out in the Faring Factory site. When I did, I immediately made a much bigger faring for much bigger planes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This one flew much better, aside from me forgetting the fuel lines from the central tanks. Also, the rear tank (with landing gear) and engines randomly ripped off when parachutes deployed fully. The rest landed safely, mind.

Camden Kerman is best test pilot, yo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 24, 2013, 12:24:48 pm
Quote from: Sirus on March 23, 2013, 12:46:10 am
Got the core of my space station into orbit today. Sadly, that was the only thing that went right.

Multiple attempts to get a couple of orange fuel tanks and some scientific equipment up to the station ended in failure, all of them before the ship even left atmo. Whether they failed to leave the launch pad, overheated, or simply went kablooie when attempting a gravity turn, not a single ship made it above 30km.

Then I tried to go smaller: single-man rockets to practice docking. Couldn't even get within 20km of the station, despite my map and maneuvers assuring me that I'd end up within 4km or so.

Finally, I decided to give the Mun landing scenario a shot. First go: as the scenario loaded, the landing legs snapped off instantly despite being in stable orbit. Second go: Failed to slow down sufficiently. Jeb and Bill became stains on the Munar surface.

RAGE QUIT.
You can do these things manually, but if you use the Starport option, go through and download Mechjeb, and Protractor.  Mechjeb is "Mechanical Jebediah" from the days when it was Bob, Bill, and Jeb every time, with Jeb being the awesome one.  It's essentially an automated rocket addon, it lets most rockets ascend to orbit and manage the gravity turn and acceleration perfectly, as well as things like changing orbit and preparing to rendezvous with an existing spaceship.

Protractor is mainly for going to other planets.  You can get into orbit 'by hand' and even to the Mun by 'eyeballing it' but if you want to go to Minmus or a different planet, you really have to get science involved.  The Protractor tool basically does the maths for you and lets you know "This is the direction you want to face and the time you want to burn to reach this other planet." by comparing your facing angle and your relative speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 25, 2013, 01:16:33 am
The maneuvers feature lets you plot paths to other planets in-game, though perhaps not as precisely as Protractor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 25, 2013, 02:34:03 am
Finally managed to get a ssto plane, the breathing engines push me at 22km - 1500m/s and two lfe do the rest.

I still have to work on reentering, when low on fuel is barely controllable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 25, 2013, 03:15:31 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 25, 2013, 02:34:03 am
Finally managed to get a ssto plane, the breathing engines push me at 22km - 1500m/s and two lfe do the rest.

I still have to work on reentering, when low on fuel is barely controllable.
Could be your fuel reserves depleting moves your center of gravity. The most simple front to back emptying will do that Routing fuel through some tanks up front near the center of gravity should help with that a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 25, 2013, 04:54:22 am
I find the easiest way is to centre the fuel tanks centre on the centre of mass... CENTRE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 25, 2013, 04:59:17 am
Best way to keep control of an empty craft is make sure there is something dragging the tail of the plane back. If you lose control after you activate the airbreathers and intakes, it could be because of a typical design choice - all or most SSTOs have a lot of intakes up front. Open intakes generate a lot of drag, so if you open all intakes at once you're going to have a big problem when the craft is lightweight. If your craft has lots of intakes up front, see if you can add a few intakes in the back, and add an action group that closes all front intakes, leaving back ones open. This can help your craft to control better.

Another common problem is simply moving too fast. When you've got a craft meant to lift two hundred tons of weight at takeoff, and end up with just shy of sixty tons of empty fuel tanks and engines on reentry, then going over mach two will flip you out. Slow down as much as you can first, then the craft will control much better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 25, 2013, 06:15:33 am
There is a mod that adds air-brakes, might want to take a look on those and add lots of them in the back, but not too much or you will rip apart. Usufull to counter reentry drag problem since you can generate lots of drag in the back preventing a flip, but again entry too fast or to many of them and you will rip apart. Also if you have VFS fuel transfer system, you can set some automation to transfer all fuel in a specific tank from all other, forcing the engine to use fuel from the tank you want.

I.E.: Your engine suck up fuel from tank from the center first but you would like it to suck it from wing fuel mount first. well simply set the VFS to out from those tank and in from the center tank and press start transfer, then close the window, it will keep transfering fuel non-stop untill you either run out of fuel or stop it yourself. Very usefull in mass center management, with it you can also completly stop using fuel transfer line as the mod will transfer it the way you set it too, no more ugly yellow pipe coming from akward direction. Just dont forget to set it the way you want! (Also when you place your mouse cursor over a tank in the menu it will highligh in bright blue the corresponding tank in real time.

Hope these tips/mods helps you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 08:36:32 am
Otherwise, why land on your wheels at all?  There's multiple parachutes available, combine a few (especially the BIG one for slowing down from orbit, then little ones to slow inside 500m) and just set the craft down lightly.  Yeah, a little bit 'cheaty' for a spaceplane to parachute landing, but you know what they say.  The simplest option is usually the best.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 25, 2013, 08:57:42 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 08:36:32 am
Otherwise, why land on your wheels at all?  There's multiple parachutes available, combine a few (especially the BIG one for slowing down from orbit, then little ones to slow inside 500m) and just set the craft down lightly.  Yeah, a little bit 'cheaty' for a spaceplane to parachute landing, but you know what they say.  The simplest option is usually the best.
That, and tailsitter planes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailsitter) are cool. Most of my planes that go to space end up landing like that.

Admittedly, I still can't get a stock SSTO to work. I might have gotten a modded one once, not quite sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 25, 2013, 08:59:16 am
SSTOs ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 25, 2013, 10:07:30 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 08:36:32 am
Otherwise, why land on your wheels at all?  There's multiple parachutes available, combine a few (especially the BIG one for slowing down from orbit, then little ones to slow inside 500m) and just set the craft down lightly.  Yeah, a little bit 'cheaty' for a spaceplane to parachute landing, but you know what they say.  The simplest option is usually the best.

I do it because I like the challenge. Trying to hold an unstable aircraft, stable, with limited or no fuel, and managing to aim it at a target, and land it there. Forget all of the difficulties of space travel, landing a space plane on a runway is pretty much the hardest thing in this game.


Having only one(technically 2 or 3, I guess, but I've never found the other KSP base and the new dirt runway is so close it might as well just be considered part of the main base) runways and no requirement for spashdown recovery efforts and no current ability or need to reuse parts does kind of defeat the benefit of spaceplanes in KSP. The whole point of a spaceplane as in the Space Shuttle program was to have a giant reusable part that could potentially land in dozens of places around the world(in reality only three were ever used, but dozens were prepared)

Also, you'd need a lot of heavy duty parachutes if you wanted to simply parachute something like the space shuttle to the ground. More weight, more points of failure. I feel some parts in KSP such as parachutes are currently too understated as far as mass goes.

In any case, I've digressed a bit, but the only real point of doing anything in KSP at the moment is for fun or the challenge. Don't knock on people who choose to land on wheels... or choose to land tail down without a parachute, or who choose just to go simple and splash a capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 10:36:12 am
I'm not condemning someone for taking on a challenge.  It's just that, as it is, there's no need to preserve parts, so parachutes become easily overlooked as an easy way to keep parts safe.  If you're just looking for a way to land, it's a pretty legitimate way.  Unless you're landing on a planet without atmosphere.  There's a reason my Kerbins don't feel comfortable when I try to make Mun landings anymore...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 25, 2013, 03:45:59 pm
Speaking of challenges, I got a spaceplane into space! (A spaceplane by the definition of silly people who don't like rocket planes. :P ))

It sadly wasn't SSTO. It was, however, at least somewhat reusable. And mostly stock. It has mechjeb, but it might well not need it! Stage one is actually remarkably stable. Stage two is... less so, but the final stage is alright. And of course, I don't think I'm that good a pilot.

So behold, the massive monster that is the Aether Regnum! (Sky King in Latin, Greek, or possibly a mix of both. I'm lazy.) ...With a new iteration of the Utsuho tailsitter plane strapped to the front.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was planning to use some mods (Damned Robotics, possibly others) to put this monster on a mobile ICBM-esque transport/launcher vehicle, but that has been put on hold for a number of reasons (lag, structural issues...well, pretty much lag and structural issues). These are probably ignorable/solvable issues, but fuck it I got into space already :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Surprisingly, even without using Mechjeb, it's incredibly stable and relatively un-wobbly under ASAS, and gets up to a nice clip of 1000 m/s at 20 km or so. I could probably take it a little higher and faster if I was careful about it, but eh. The staging here is tricky enough as is- those jets produce way more power than those rockets, so they have to be shut down to avoid smashing into said engines. And since jets take a while to respond, you have to wait at least a bit and/or fire the rockets on full blast right when you decouple. This is the harrowing part in general, and seems to be the most unstable- of the three launches of this thing I've done, one had the jets smash the right two rockets, and I stopped instantly for fairly obvious reasons. One lost control after staging, and although it was eventually regained, it had used too much of the booster stage's fuel to get into space (although it came frustratingly close!). This is, as you might have guessed, the third launch, and although it was rather wobbly and needed Mechjeb assist, it did do its job well enough to...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
..get me up into a solid suborbital trajectory before I ditched it. We haven't seen the last of that booster, by the way.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Orbit was achieved! Not all that circular, kind of cutting it close there, but orbit nonetheless. As you can see, the booster was still in space, so I decided I may as well follow it down and see how it landed, now that the Utsuho itself was in a stable orbit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stupid rocket engines.

Back to the mission: After a few orbits, I brought the Utsuho back in. And probably wasted a bunch of rocket fuel trying to make sure I would land both in daylight and on land, but that's besides the point:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I will never get tired of things screaming towards the cold hard earth at several times the speed of sound. Never.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Perfect landing!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...Or not. Close enough!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:02:56 pm
The BEST thing about the post right above mine?  Jeb shows an appropriate mood for every picture.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on March 25, 2013, 04:18:53 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:02:56 pm
The BEST thing about the post right above mine?  Jeb shows an appropriate mood for every picture.

IT'S EVOLVING
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 25, 2013, 04:24:25 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on March 25, 2013, 04:18:53 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:02:56 pm
The BEST thing about the post right above mine?  Jeb shows an appropriate mood for every picture.

IT'S EVOLVING
Nonsense. Jebediah Kerman is the apex of Kerbal evolution. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 04:43:50 pm
Got the Mun mapped (both normal and for Kethane) and got a Methane miner on the surface.

Now I just need to find a way to use that fuel. And get a miner down that actually has enough solar panels. Damn that thing eats power and barely produces any fuel at all :/.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:49:25 pm
I've not done much Kethane mining (read: none) but  I did pick up the suggestion, to keep it as Kethane as long as possible, since it's less dense than fuel.  Your ideal interplanetary vessel would be huge kethane tanks and converters - this is more weight-efficient than hauling fuel.

Solar panels shouldn't be an issue though.  Just 8-way some XLs and get massive power at all times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 04:58:24 pm
My current plans are slightly less grand than that I'm afraid.

A rover refueling depot is what I'm currently planning on making.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 05:03:03 pm
I thought rovers didn't need fuel?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 05:05:00 pm
Right. Dammit. Stupid update ruined everything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 05:06:09 pm
Sorry, dude  :-X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 05:09:45 pm
On the bright side, my rovers no longer explode all the time.

Mun base it is then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 25, 2013, 05:48:24 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:49:25 pm
I've not done much Kethane mining (read: none) but  I did pick up the suggestion, to keep it as Kethane as long as possible, since it's less dense than fuel.  Your ideal interplanetary vessel would be huge kethane tanks and converters - this is more weight-efficient than hauling fuel.

Solar panels shouldn't be an issue though.  Just 8-way some XLs and get massive power at all times.

Kethane is less dense than fuel, but you also get less fuel from it than the kethane you convert. I think there is some significant loss there, so while you may be able to transport more volume and have it weigh less, the end result might be that you end up with less fuel at the end than if you'd used the same amount of weight on pure fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 25, 2013, 06:03:53 pm
Quote from: sluissa on March 25, 2013, 05:48:24 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 04:49:25 pm
I've not done much Kethane mining (read: none) but  I did pick up the suggestion, to keep it as Kethane as long as possible, since it's less dense than fuel.  Your ideal interplanetary vessel would be huge kethane tanks and converters - this is more weight-efficient than hauling fuel.

Solar panels shouldn't be an issue though.  Just 8-way some XLs and get massive power at all times.

Kethane is less dense than fuel, but you also get less fuel from it than the kethane you convert. I think there is some significant loss there, so while you may be able to transport more volume and have it weigh less, the end result might be that you end up with less fuel at the end than if you'd used the same amount of weight on pure fuel.
Dont forget more trip to your mine, best way is to refine on site unless you can use kethane for space travel wich you cannot.

Dont forget you need 10 ket for 1 liquid fuel and 10 more for 1oxidizer wich is a total of 20 kethane for a 1-1 fuel/oxidizer. I wont go in maths but i can assure you its more efficient to refine on site and transport fuel by yourself. Because in the long term/end you will loose some *mass* during the convertion just there its mass you moved for nothing since you lost it wich again in the end is useless DeltaV spent to bring that mass there only to be lost in the convertion. Also more trip you have to make to acheive the same amount of fuel converted its more trip spending deltaV to move your ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 06:17:57 pm
The way I understand it: Ket is less than 1/10th the weight of fuel/oxi.

In other words, when you convert Kethane to Fuel/Oxidizer, you actually generate more mass.  If you carry X amount of fuel, then carrying X Equivalent Kethane would actually be a lighter load.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 25, 2013, 07:04:51 pm
SUCCESS!!!
Greetings from the Mun!
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7994/20mar251858.jpg)

After many tries, I've finally landed Kerbals on the Mun! Next step is to Explore(re: mess around) for a bit, then take off, dock with my command ship, and return to Kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:07:53 pm
Unrelated, has anyone yet made their whole ship into a rover?  I want to see a massive crawler on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 25, 2013, 07:16:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:07:53 pm
Unrelated, has anyone yet made their whole ship into a rover?  I want to see a massive crawler on the Mun.
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Docking, perhaps? Build it in segments etc etc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:23:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Asparagus and Mechjeb, most likely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:28:05 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:23:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Asparagus and Mechjeb, most likely.
Ah. With 'whole ship' I assume you meant it would be single stage or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:33:34 pm
Oh, no.  It's just that people keep deploying rovers.  I want to see the whole ship be a single rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 07:34:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:23:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Asparagus and Mechjeb, most likely.
Asparagus = Mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PanH on March 25, 2013, 07:36:34 pm

I don't know how to land on the Mun other than crashing in it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:38:17 pm
Try Minmus first. The glaciers are perfectly flat and very easy to land on.

Also, F5 = quicksave, F9 = quickload.

You need those to land :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 25, 2013, 07:38:42 pm
Quote from: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 07:34:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:23:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Asparagus and Mechjeb, most likely.
Asparagus = Mod?

try searching "asparagus" in the thread
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:39:22 pm
Or watch this: not porn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1enUEy2lKYA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:41:14 pm
Quote from: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 07:34:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 07:23:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:10:28 pm
How would you even get that on the Mun?
Asparagus and Mechjeb, most likely.
Asparagus = Mod?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1enUEy2lKYA

The individual 'dropping side-pairs' tend to look like stalks of asparagus as they shed, a thin engine with a large tank on top.  It's a way of adding more stages to a rocket, using the same fuel to go higher due to being able to shed mass more easily in low atmosphere.  You get high thrust early, but once you get into space you can ditch all your booster engines and end up with your core rocket still fully fueled.  It's a fantastic way of putting a completely fueled ship in orbit, minus the booster rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 25, 2013, 07:44:45 pm
It's how at least one of SpaceX rockets works, or is going to work.

Even since I use it rocket's are a lot easier to make.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 25, 2013, 07:46:23 pm
Huh. I've fooled around with the fuel ducts before, but damn! I didn't know they could be so helpful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 25, 2013, 07:48:19 pm
Mission Complete! We have Splashdown!

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/918/21mar251944.jpg)

Heh, I had panicked for a moment when RCS Autopilot glitched out, but I was able to dock my Mun Lander and Command vehicle completely manually without any assistance whatsoever. I feel like a Boss!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PanH on March 25, 2013, 11:02:34 pm

Well, seems like something like that isn't possible :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 12:00:15 am
Have we not yet gone over how incredible JATO can be?  You can get a rocket up to 15,000m without using any fuel.  Just put one solid fuel tank (no oxi), one turbojet, and 1 ramming air intake.  This makes a small package that can lift unreasonable weights.  Strap 4-8 of them to your rocket, put the launch struts on the jet engines.  Cycle up the engines and let them burn, they need to 'spin up' and consume ~5-10 fuel before reaching their maximum speed on the launch pad.  Then flick the landing struts off, and watch your rocket soar.

The trick, is avoiding flameout.  When they run out of oxygen, the rocket tends to suddenly flip around wildly.  If you put the decouplers to trigger, the jet engines to deactivate, and the main engine to activate, all to one custom keybinding (ie, the number keys), then you can get up to ~15,000m before detaching.

In preliminary tests, I've gotten a nuclear engine with 1 small fuel tank into orbit with ease, using 4 JATO and one standard engine, leaving the nuke with 3/4 fuel in 200km orbit.  Small tests, but it's very obviously something useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 26, 2013, 04:14:55 am
How big should a rover be?

Spoiler: Perhaps a tad too big? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Nah (click to show/hide)

(For the recond it twised itself apart at about 20km up)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 26, 2013, 04:53:27 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 06:17:57 pm
The way I understand it: Ket is less than 1/10th the weight of fuel/oxi.

In other words, when you convert Kethane to Fuel/Oxidizer, you actually generate more mass.  If you carry X amount of fuel, then carrying X Equivalent Kethane would actually be a lighter load.
The mod use masses and not volume for convertion so nah it doesnt create more mass out of now-where, i have proof from the mod dev about it and after multiple test. Sadly if it where like you said it would make sense to ferry the kethane and not the fuel but as it use the mass and not the volume to make the converstion, serve no purpose to ferry the kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 26, 2013, 06:07:35 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 26, 2013, 04:53:27 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 06:17:57 pm
The way I understand it: Ket is less than 1/10th the weight of fuel/oxi.

In other words, when you convert Kethane to Fuel/Oxidizer, you actually generate more mass.  If you carry X amount of fuel, then carrying X Equivalent Kethane would actually be a lighter load.
The mod use masses and not volume for convertion so nah it doesnt create more mass out of now-where, i have proof from the mod dev about it and after multiple test. Sadly if it where like you said it would make sense to ferry the kethane and not the fuel but as it use the mass and not the volume to make the converstion, serve no purpose to ferry the kethane.

Other than flexibility I suppose.
Raw methane is potentially fuel, oxidiser and RCS, while a ground based refinery has to convert the precise amounts needed later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 26, 2013, 09:42:41 am
Quote from: ank on March 26, 2013, 06:07:35 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 26, 2013, 04:53:27 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 25, 2013, 06:17:57 pm
The way I understand it: Ket is less than 1/10th the weight of fuel/oxi.

In other words, when you convert Kethane to Fuel/Oxidizer, you actually generate more mass.  If you carry X amount of fuel, then carrying X Equivalent Kethane would actually be a lighter load.
The mod use masses and not volume for convertion so nah it doesnt create more mass out of now-where, i have proof from the mod dev about it and after multiple test. Sadly if it where like you said it would make sense to ferry the kethane and not the fuel but as it use the mass and not the volume to make the converstion, serve no purpose to ferry the kethane.

Other than flexibility I suppose.
Raw methane is potentially fuel, oxidiser and RCS, while a ground based refinery has to convert the precise amounts needed later.

On the other hand, are you going to be using RCS on an interplanetary trip?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 10:13:47 am
If you plan on doing big missions involving docking in orbit of another planet, then yes.  And let's be honest, we all want to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 12:33:51 pm
Mrgh, which mod allows planetary mining? Can't find it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 26, 2013, 12:34:58 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-4-3-Current-location-marker-infinite-conversion-fix
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 03:09:06 pm
Is anyone aware of scripts or mods that would let me fine-control a rocket?  For instance, my current lifter is... quirky.  Stage 1 is to be clamped to the launch pad and warm up its turbojet engines.  It then launches (mostly, it hovers for a few seconds) and agonizingly slowly lifts into the atmosphere (for reference, the max thrust of the turbojets on-pad is 112.4, and at 100.0 the ship hovers in place, so this thing BARELY moves at launch, and takes 5+ minutes to reach 15km).  I've got a keybinding that will shut off the turbojets and decouple them in one move, and then it stages into asparagus boosters for the bulk of the ascent.  However, some deep flaw results in these boosters draining fuel at uneven rates, so when they run out, one runs out first and the rocket does a flip and totally wigs out until SAS kicks in.  It does this 3 times.  The alternative is to decouple the boosters early, which usually leaves the full one to crash into the ship and take out solar panels, or worse.  To compensate, I've got another keybinding that toggles the engines.  So when the one fuel tank is about to deplete, I toggle the engines off, separate stage, and toggle them back on.

The problem is, this is a bit tedious and exacting.  If anyone's aware of a setup that scripts the game "detach this stage at 15,000m" or "detach this stage when this fuel tank has run empty" then that would be glorious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 26, 2013, 03:14:13 pm
Mechjeb has something that looks like a command line. That's all I know :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 03:20:35 pm
I saw, but that's mainly for controlling mechjeb itself.  You can tell it "Mechjeb, take me to orbit, then transfer orbit to the Mun, then circularize orbit, then attempts a landing." because these are all mechjeb-specific commands.  But you can't seem to tell it "alright now trigger this stage" because that's a KSP event, not Mechjeb control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on March 26, 2013, 04:06:19 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 03:09:06 pm
Is anyone aware of scripts or mods that would let me fine-control a rocket?  For instance, my current lifter is... quirky.  Stage 1 is to be clamped to the launch pad and warm up its turbojet engines.  It then launches (mostly, it hovers for a few seconds) and agonizingly slowly lifts into the atmosphere (for reference, the max thrust of the turbojets on-pad is 112.4, and at 100.0 the ship hovers in place, so this thing BARELY moves at launch, and takes 5+ minutes to reach 15km).  I've got a keybinding that will shut off the turbojets and decouple them in one move, and then it stages into asparagus boosters for the bulk of the ascent.  However, some deep flaw results in these boosters draining fuel at uneven rates, so when they run out, one runs out first and the rocket does a flip and totally wigs out until SAS kicks in.  It does this 3 times.  The alternative is to decouple the boosters early, which usually leaves the full one to crash into the ship and take out solar panels, or worse.  To compensate, I've got another keybinding that toggles the engines.  So when the one fuel tank is about to deplete, I toggle the engines off, separate stage, and toggle them back on.

The bolded parts made me laugh.

When I want to automate simple key commands, I use Auto-hotkey. It is extremely simple to throw together a set of commands in that scripting application and run them with a single hot key. At the most basic form it will just function as if you are pressing keys in the active window, so it will work fine with KSP.

It seems like there are enough flaws to warrant a re-design though. As awesome as random failures are, it is too frustrating when you spend 10 minutes staring at your rocket rising at 5 FPS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 26, 2013, 04:09:59 pm
Indeed you waste more fuel by using airbreathers for so long than you'd spend running a couple of more powerful engines (or hell, solid fuel boosters) for shorter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 04:29:28 pm
Thing is, I'm not using any real fuel to get up to 15km.  I've got 3 engines, each is JUST fuel, turbojet, and intake.  Comparable in size to SRB, but they consume so little fuel that I could take a 20 minute slow ascent to 15km and still just be running out of fuel.  Really, if you're able to match your weight against these little JATO modules, it's slow but you can effectively launch a ship from 15km.

The problem is the quirks of violent flameout on jets, when they hit ~16km they SUDDENLY shut off and the effect makes the rocket tumble, so you have to be careful and toss them out before then.  Otherwise, it's pretty awesome.  The ship is 67 tons on the pad, and around 17 tons in orbit, the vast bulk of that being fuel in orbit.  With the single nuclear engine, it could make it to the Mun and back maybe 2-3 times, just in case you wanted to run out there a few times.  Not to mention, probably easily make it to another planet if I could find a decent tool for measuring orbital insertions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 05:02:59 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 04:29:28 pm
Thing is, I'm not using any real fuel to get up to 15km.  I've got 3 engines, each is JUST fuel, turbojet, and intake.  Comparable in size to SRB, but they consume so little fuel that I could take a 20 minute slow ascent to 15km and still just be running out of fuel.  Really, if you're able to match your weight against these little JATO modules, it's slow but you can effectively launch a ship from 15km.

The problem is the quirks of violent flameout on jets, when they hit ~16km they SUDDENLY shut off and the effect makes the rocket tumble, so you have to be careful and toss them out before then.  Otherwise, it's pretty awesome.  The ship is 67 tons on the pad, and around 17 tons in orbit, the vast bulk of that being fuel in orbit.  With the single nuclear engine, it could make it to the Mun and back maybe 2-3 times, just in case you wanted to run out there a few times.  Not to mention, probably easily make it to another planet if I could find a decent tool for measuring orbital insertions.

I hear protractor is the perfect tool for the job
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 26, 2013, 05:41:18 pm
Use mechjeb ascent function with everything deactivate exept auto-stage. And make sure each asparagus section are on their own stage and in order. It will do just that just jet them as soon they are empty, or on a timer depends on the delay you used.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 26, 2013, 07:29:42 pm
Using jets for a rocket doesnt seem to work too well with super-heavy payloads, since it takes an awful lot of jets to get it off the ground.

It seems easier just to strap more conventional rockets onto your rocket even if it uses more fuel, its not like fuel is at a premium.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 07:32:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRh6d2zO4mQ
Behold, it works!

Also behold possibly the slowest ascent ever recorded.  So slow that it starts in reverse!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 26, 2013, 08:06:34 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 07:32:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRh6d2zO4mQ
Behold, it works!

Also behold possibly the slowest ascent ever recorded.  So slow that it starts in reverse!
Excellent!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 08:10:25 pm
Updated video just now with captions, it helps to fill the boring time with reading my slander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on March 26, 2013, 08:12:09 pm
Very nice slideshow, girlinhat :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 26, 2013, 09:02:58 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 07:32:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRh6d2zO4mQ
Behold, it works!

Also behold possibly the slowest ascent ever recorded.  So slow that it starts in reverse!
Congrats!

The fuel problems are caused by the way girders you use with decouplers. Both the decoupler and the girder segment are "fuel crosfeed capable". It generally doesn't change much if both the fuel line and decoupler are connected to the same tank in case of standard only decoupler design. But the girder segment in your craft id acting like another fuel line thus creating a fuel loop and so the fuel to some engines is flowing through all tanks draining the random tank it ends on. If you want to keep this design i think connecting fuel line from tank to girder and then from girder to another tank could solve the problem.

Also the jet engines are overrated, if you ditched the jets and just put Fl-T400 fuel tank on each of the asparagus stage, you would reach orbit with almost the same fuel and less starting mass (and probably less costly in kerbaldollars).

Cheers!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 09:09:04 pm
Girlinhat, if you used bicouplers to double both intakes and engines, I bet you could get a lot better speed out of the JATOs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 09:12:57 pm
Quote from: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 09:09:04 pm
Girlinhat, if you used bicouplers to double both intakes and engines, I bet you could get a lot better speed out of the JATOs
I had an attempted rocket to use tricouplers, but the weight was too large to deal with.  You could -probably- get away with a single intake and 2 turbojets, though it's likely to flare out closer to 10km instead of 15km.

Hmm...  If I increase airflow, can they sustain higher?  Time to try and slap bicouplers and see if they'll function at 20km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 11:03:56 pm
Well, 3 JATO Boosters with tricouplers on both intakes and engines on each of my 4 orange side tanks got my 400ton craft to actually hover(finally tipped over due to clipping the launch clamps :P), so I was thinking simply adding bicouplers to your craft should get decent performance increases :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 11:32:11 pm
Actually, I modified it for tri-mounted turbojets and intakes, and it goes pretty fast.  Each engine has about 10 tons of lifting power, and my 75 ton ship with 18 of these, it shoots up pretty nicely, and at ~15km swap to rockets, the added startup speed means they save even more fuel.

When resource management becomes a thing, these tri-mount boosters are going to be incredible.  They may not be as purely powerful as other sources, but they are cheap, small, and provide reliable lift up to 15km.  I imagine a more 'spaceplane' setup could achieve greater speed around 10km cruising altitude, and release a rocket even closer to orbit.  After all, it would effectively have already done the gravity turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 26, 2013, 11:45:50 pm
Cool, but I now demand a video of this modded version in action :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 27, 2013, 12:18:47 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 26, 2013, 11:32:11 pm
When resource management becomes a thing, these tri-mount boosters are going to be incredible.  They may not be as purely powerful as other sources, but they are cheap, small, and provide reliable lift up to 15km.  I imagine a more 'spaceplane' setup could achieve greater speed around 10km cruising altitude, and release a rocket even closer to orbit.  After all, it would effectively have already done the gravity turn.

That is until jets can stall...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on March 27, 2013, 12:54:46 am
I don't see why planes being able to stall would mean that either of those things would become impossible or not viable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 27, 2013, 01:21:33 am
Jets already "stall" and flame out. This is until jets are properly complicated to use. When each engine requires a direct connection to its intake, when you need compressors and different types of intakes for different speeds and altitudes. IRL, the reason jets aren't used to boost rockets is because they're much too heavy and complex.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 27, 2013, 01:33:15 am
Well, nevermind. that's not how jets work apparently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 27, 2013, 02:19:48 am
I suppose it'd be possible to create a jet-powered lifter or booster stage for IRL rockets. But it'd have to essentially be a VTOL aircraft of its own, like a VTOL launch platform. And even with the fuel it'd save for the rockets themselves, it'd be much too expensive to build and maintain to be a profitable investment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 27, 2013, 06:58:03 am
They are looking into creating airbreathing rocket engines and the like though. Problem with those is the increased complexity due to the nessicity to switch from air intakes to liquid oxygen midflight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 27, 2013, 08:03:16 am
That, and it'd be necessary to plan for several completely different burn mixes. X fuel burning with ~20% oxygen mixed air is going to burn a lot differently than X fuel burning with 100% oxygen. And as the rocket ascends, the air will get thinner and/or the pressure will build forcing more air into the system.

It's easy to just say "well, they're going to throw an intake on there." But rockets are designed to very precise operational tolerances, partially because they have to work that well just to get their payload off the ground, but also because of the extreme temperature and forces involved.

Just as an example, the engine nozzles of many rockets are made of graphite, which, while incredibly fragile, is also one of the few things able to survive the heat. Because of the fragility, they have to plan out how the gas expansion occurs within the chamber and as it's leaving. If there's too much turbulence or variation, the nozzle could just shatter, and that's just the most visible part of a complex system which could have thousands of parts.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 27, 2013, 08:20:09 am
There's also the option of becoming KSP and allowing you to get a vessel into orbit by eyeballing it.  Rockets are complicated, and here we've got 12 year olds flying into orbit.  Jet engines are complicated...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 27, 2013, 08:34:25 pm
Ok, I played the demo, fell in love with it, and I've brought the full version.  So now I have a few questions-
1.  How am I supposed to evenly place wheels?  And is there any other kind I can use other then high performance gear? All my planes that need a runway point downwards, so they can't take off, or go sideways.
2.  Are there any uses for high altitude gliders?  I created one that has almost pinpoint control at very, very high altitudes, but I can't find any immediate use for it. 
3.  Why is my glider losing maneuverability as it goes down?  By the time I get to below 10,000 meters it nearly get's locked at a near 60 degree angle, and I can only make a small adjustment to make it go a little steeper or a little shallower.  Is it because gravity is greater?
4.  Nevermind, was using jet fuel.  Other questions still stand.
5. As of now, are there any uses for Science?  Or is it just cosmetic?
Do I need to post any design specifics, or are these general enough questions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: generalpie on March 27, 2013, 08:35:44 pm
So. I just got KSP...
Is it good if all my rockets are pretty much made of : Boosters, A chair, and lots of thrusters
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 27, 2013, 10:56:35 pm
The new metal plates are amazing for perpetual motion flyers based on the rotation feedback thingy I demonstrated numerous times in a variety of patches. The small plates require absolutely zero struts.

So far got it up to 3200m/s, and still going to up that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 27, 2013, 11:12:37 pm
You exploity alway XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on March 28, 2013, 12:31:53 am
Quote from: alway on March 27, 2013, 10:56:35 pm
The new metal plates are amazing for perpetual motion flyers based on the rotation feedback thingy I demonstrated numerous times in a variety of patches. The small plates require absolutely zero struts.

So far got it up to 3200m/s, and still going to up that.
I want to see that in action now  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 28, 2013, 01:00:55 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on March 28, 2013, 12:31:53 am
Quote from: alway on March 27, 2013, 10:56:35 pm
The new metal plates are amazing for perpetual motion flyers based on the rotation feedback thingy I demonstrated numerous times in a variety of patches. The small plates require absolutely zero struts.

So far got it up to 3200m/s, and still going to up that.
I want to see that in action now  :o
Step 1: use the single-kerbal cylinder; the old one in there
Step 2: 8-symmetry plates, radially mounted; add 2 of these, one above the next
Step 3: 8-symmetry small flaps, parallel to the plane of the plates; spam these as much as possible on the plates. When you can't spam any more due to space, keep spamming more, overlapping the existing ones; it works, promise. :P
Step 4: launch clamp mounted to bottom of kerbal cylinder
Step 5: change craft angle to start out angled partially downwards, then move it high up (to give a little room to fall to gain velocity)
Step 6: launch; do not spin at first, just adjust yaw and pitch angles to level out, you will notice rapidly increasing speed when you use the flaps; aim in a generally upward direction at about 50 m/s, then do very short bursts of spin to accelerate extremely quickly; do not let velocity exceed about 500 m/s below 4k-5k altitude, as the wings will be torn off by floating point errors due to incredibly high spin rates combined with extremely high drag and force vectors. Above about 5k, just hold down spin. Redirecting the direction is a bit shifty, especially at high speeds; a single little tap should do it, but may also just throw you into an uncontrollable spin. Going straight up, you can expect a maximum of a bit under 3km/s by the time you leave atmos, but by going mostly parallel to the ground, you can reach around 3.4km/s with enough flaps, possibly higher.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on March 28, 2013, 01:52:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on March 27, 2013, 08:34:25 pm
Ok, I played the demo, fell in love with it, and I've brought the full version.  So now I have a few questions-
1.  How am I supposed to evenly place wheels?  And is there any other kind I can use other then high performance gear? All my planes that need a runway point downwards, so they can't take off, or go sideways.
2.  Are there any uses for high altitude gliders?  I created one that has almost pinpoint control at very, very high altitudes, but I can't find any immediate use for it. 
3.  Why is my glider losing maneuverability as it goes down?  By the time I get to below 10,000 meters it nearly get's locked at a near 60 degree angle, and I can only make a small adjustment to make it go a little steeper or a little shallower.  Is it because gravity is greater?
4.  Nevermind, was using jet fuel.  Other questions still stand.
5. As of now, are there any uses for Science?  Or is it just cosmetic?
Do I need to post any design specifics, or are these general enough questions?

1. Using the symmetry tool should fix most of the problem.
2. They have the same functionality as the rockets: lulz :P
5. Right click on them and you can enable them to get various readings (eg gravity etc). But there is no "gamey" use for them at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 28, 2013, 02:51:29 am
Well there is one mod that use these instrument to make graphics on various level to help you *tweak* your rockets/planes, graphotron i think its called? While its no proper gamey use they can still help you out to find out if your ship is efficient for the mission you gave it.

Graphotron i think its called.
http://kerbalspaceport.com/graphotron-2000/

Here you go. Might want to take a good look on all those mods out there ( Hint: need full version as no mods work with demo exept parts? even there im not sure )
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on March 28, 2013, 05:14:02 am
Finaly figured out how to use manuvure nodes, got my first moon orbit too. Mightn't mean much to you guys, what with your fancy Duna encounters. But this a huge victory for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on March 28, 2013, 05:38:34 am
Quote from: buckets on March 28, 2013, 05:14:02 am
Finaly figured out how to use manuvure nodes, got my first moon orbit too. Mightn't mean much to you guys, what with your fancy Duna encounters. But this a huge victory for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have not made a normal orbit so congrats
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 28, 2013, 06:02:01 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on March 28, 2013, 01:52:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on March 27, 2013, 08:34:25 pm
Ok, I played the demo, fell in love with it, and I've brought the full version.  So now I have a few questions-
1.  How am I supposed to evenly place wheels?  And is there any other kind I can use other then high performance gear? All my planes that need a runway point downwards, so they can't take off, or go sideways.
2.  Are there any uses for high altitude gliders?  I created one that has almost pinpoint control at very, very high altitudes, but I can't find any immediate use for it. 
3.  Why is my glider losing maneuverability as it goes down?  By the time I get to below 10,000 meters it nearly get's locked at a near 60 degree angle, and I can only make a small adjustment to make it go a little steeper or a little shallower.  Is it because gravity is greater?
4.  Nevermind, was using jet fuel.  Other questions still stand.
5. As of now, are there any uses for Science?  Or is it just cosmetic?
Do I need to post any design specifics, or are these general enough questions?

1. Using the symmetry tool should fix most of the problem.
2. They have the same functionality as the rockets: lulz :P
5. Right click on them and you can enable them to get various readings (eg gravity etc). But there is no "gamey" use for them at the moment.
I already use the symetry tool for placing wheels on the wings, but I can't place one of the fueslage without it being too high or two low.  I tried using a structural support/pylon thing, but I was still having the same problem. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 28, 2013, 06:27:10 am
If you need a symmetric wheel frame for a rover, you can just use the symmetry options creatively.

Planes that point downward on the runway are good. If they don't point downward, there is that much more chance that they'll tailstrike as they take off. The reason planes go sideways or roll over on the runways is more often than not non-parallel wheels (and by wheels I assume you mean "landing gear" here, since no rover wheels are strong enough to handle a spaceplane takeoff). If you need, use a rigid frame to make sure that your rear landing gear is as perfectly aligned and as perfectly vertical as possible. Use struts so that it doesn't flex, since on takeoff all the plane's mass, plus the torque from lifting the nose up, all end up on it. The nose wheel just needs to be centered, and reinforced to handle the occasional bump of a rough landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 28, 2013, 06:33:33 am
Quote from: buckets on March 28, 2013, 05:14:02 am
Finaly figured out how to use manuvure nodes, got my first moon orbit too. Mightn't mean much to you guys, what with your fancy Duna encounters. But this a huge victory for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Awesome! Now use another node at the lowest point in the orbit to circularize.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on March 28, 2013, 07:49:36 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 28, 2013, 06:33:33 am
Quote from: buckets on March 28, 2013, 05:14:02 am
Finaly figured out how to use manuvure nodes, got my first moon orbit too. Mightn't mean much to you guys, what with your fancy Duna encounters. But this a huge victory for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Awesome! Now use another node at the lowest point in the orbit to circularize.

If I leave it as is I should enough feul to get him home, or crash him into the moon. I like to keep my options open.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on March 28, 2013, 11:21:56 am
So what's the difference between separators and decouplers? I know the functional difference, but why would you choose one over the other?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 28, 2013, 11:27:00 am
Sometimes you want to have a docking port that will only become accessible after removing the top stage, but don't want to put a docking port on the top stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 28, 2013, 11:33:31 am
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/95756/what-is-the-difference-between-a-stack-decoupler-and-a-stack-separator
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 28, 2013, 12:18:46 pm
Decouplers I use on anything I'd rather stay as one (or two) easily manageable and deorbitable piece after decoupling - meaning, most applications where staging is involved. When making an escape pod or staging parts that are meant to stay rather than disposed of, separators provide extra force for the former, and the accessibility for the latter.

edit: I'm making a jet-powered rover/buggy.
Spoiler: And I'm not sure if I'm doing it quite right... (click to show/hide)
The only non-stock parts are the pretty cylindrical fuel tanks from KSPX.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 28, 2013, 02:39:30 pm
What you need to do, is grab several RCS, strap to the sides, and then take it to Minmus.

I can just imagine your buggy trundling along the surface, and then, "Nope, I'm outta here." and just lifts into the sky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 28, 2013, 03:54:51 pm
It sorta already does that on Kerbin, just with a tad more flair. And a lot more required forward space. It lifts off at about 100-120 m/s. Yes, that's well over the breaking point for the wheels. How does it take off and land then? Easy.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot115.png)

James Bond style. :P

I really kinda like this one. Might even modify it for rocket power and take it to the Mun with something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 28, 2013, 04:00:32 pm
Are those... high performance gears that deploy UNDER the rover wheels?  God damn man that's a stroke of beauty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 28, 2013, 04:47:05 pm
I do that with my stratoplane. It taxies around on rover wheels, then the landing gears deploy, lifting the fragile rover wheels off the airstrip. Useful, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 29, 2013, 03:15:33 am
All your speed problem on these rover wheel are now fixed with this little link.

http://kerbalspaceport.com/racing-slicks-0-19-robaus-warehouse/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 29, 2013, 03:30:07 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 29, 2013, 03:15:33 am
All your speed problem on these rover wheel are now fixed with this little link.

http://kerbalspaceport.com/racing-slicks-0-19-robaus-warehouse/
Not until it's more than a .cfg mod. I can do those myself.

(I can do the full-model mods myself too, technically, but they take time and effort - that's the point)

Also, I refitted the Turbo Buggy into a Rocket Buggy, and HyperEdited it onto Minmus. It... doesn't quite have what it takes to return to Kerbin by itself. Maybe with some better piloting and clever usage of the Mun, but my attempt left it stranded in space.

It looks cool on the Mun though, even if it can't leave it on its own.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot124.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 29, 2013, 05:34:43 am
Awesome drag racer!!! I love it!


This sounds like a very hard, but very cool mission:
http://what-if.xkcd.com/
(link is only good for a week, after that you have to go back)

Any takers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on March 29, 2013, 06:43:21 am
Landed on Minmus successfully for the first time :D Rather pleased. Also, how do people go about designing manned landers that can return to Kerbin from the Mun? I can get there and land no problem but can never get back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 29, 2013, 06:49:18 am
Detach the lander from the main ship before landing on Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 29, 2013, 07:04:51 am
Getting BACK is the easy part. It only requires a tiny amount of delta-v compared to getting off kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on March 29, 2013, 07:52:17 am
Also; I've matched orbits with the ship I want to dock with, how do I catch up with it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 29, 2013, 07:54:03 am
Lower your orbit a little to catch up with it, increase it to let it catch up with you.

As soon as you are within ~3km of it you can decrease relative speed to 0m/s, move up close to it, and decrease speed again.

(decreasing relative speed = burning retrograde, decreasing distance = burning towards target)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 29, 2013, 11:27:08 am
Quote from: Chattox on March 29, 2013, 07:52:17 am
Also; I've matched orbits with the ship I want to dock with, how do I catch up with it?
You essentially want to make your orbit eccentric, and then be patient.  You want your target's orbit to be circular, but your orbit to be an oval.  That way you'll cross orbits 4 times, and your periods should be different, so eventually you'll have a close crossing.

Then it's just a matter of more patience.  When you reach the approach position, click the speed indicator above the navball and set it to "target" then go to your retrograde and burn until you reach 0m/s, then face the target and burn until you reach something comfortable (probably 10~50m/s depending on distance).  Then wait for another close crossing, and burn retrograde and then burn target.  Eventually, you'll notice that your orbits are identical and a coming approach will be 0.0km.

When you change the velocity indicator to 'Target' it changes the prograde and retrograde markers to "relative velocity" so when you burn retrograde, you're not slowing down your ship (in its orbit), you're slowing down your ship compared to the target.

Also Youtube.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 29, 2013, 02:26:43 pm
Hm. Decided to try out how well Bandicam works with KSP. Turns out, rather well. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yizr0resuvgjl1g/KSP%202013-03-29%2015-09-12-166.avi) Other results of the experiment: determined that the jet-powered flying buggy needs better maneuverability; however its core survivability is rather top-notch. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 29, 2013, 03:29:28 pm
Ah, the old adage is true: put a powerful enough engine on it, and anything can fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 29, 2013, 04:01:29 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 29, 2013, 03:29:28 pm
Ah, the old adage is true: put a powerful enough engine on it, and anything can fly.
New adage: engines are for noobs.

Spoiler: no engines, no mods, interplanetary probe (click to show/hide)
8)

Max speed I've seen it hit is about 4250 m/s, though it could go higher at great risk of ripping apart due to sheer floating point errors in the massive force calculations from drag and lift. Even trying to get up to speed below about 5000 meters results in the craft ripping itself apart from massive forces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 29, 2013, 04:03:08 pm
you should post that on one of those perpetual motion machine forums :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 29, 2013, 04:35:18 pm
Is that essentially a giant wing flapper?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 29, 2013, 05:04:49 pm
Fixed wings; you roll the entire craft for thrust. It uses the whole lift normal force thing I've used in the past; the main difference is the smaller controlling craft (the smallest of the drones in this case), and the use of the small metal plates instead of the larger wings. This makes it incredibly stable, requiring few if any struts (they're mostly there to deal with the crazy forces at lower altitudes, as vibration of parts can break stuff). So they can be made smaller, faster, and stronger than ever before. At this point, the limiting factor is actually the small flaps being ripped from the wings by the massive forces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 29, 2013, 05:07:05 pm
Quote from: alway on March 29, 2013, 05:04:49 pm
At this point, the limiting factor is actually the small flaps being ripped from the wings by the massive forces.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7175846400/h69C6FAB2/)

ADD MORE STRUTS!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 30, 2013, 09:40:54 am
That chart is so hideously wrong that I can't even stand it.


Obviously you add more orange tanks and mainsails, not boosters. :I

Boosters hardly contribute to TWR at extreme weights, anyways.
...Actually, scrap mainsails. You just need more orange tanks, and more engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 30, 2013, 09:47:25 am
Why ever use orange tanks? They are just three double tanks which overheat your engines. Three double tanks are always better imo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on March 30, 2013, 09:49:37 am
Three double tanks break apart.

Orange tanks are whole, and if you attach the small Rockomax to the bottom you can have them not overheat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 30, 2013, 09:51:03 am
If they fall apart you add more struts and they no longer fall apart :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 10:45:28 am
Quote from: Dutchling on March 30, 2013, 09:47:25 am
Why ever use orange tanks? They are just three double tanks which overheat your engines. Three double tanks are always better imo.
I've always had bad expiernces with Rockomax parts.  Even if it doesn't explode, something ALWAYS goes wrong when they are involved. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 30, 2013, 11:13:15 am
I have the same thing with those orange tanks :P. It's a matter of taste I guess.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 30, 2013, 11:14:21 am
The orange tanks seem fixed to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MorleyDev on March 30, 2013, 11:37:48 am
They only overheat at full thrust, and in my experience if you're using full thrust for long enough to overheat them then you're probably wasting fuel anyway ^^ The point just before it overheats gets shit into the sky :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 12:08:06 pm
Quote from: MorleyDev on March 30, 2013, 11:37:48 am
They only overheat at full thrust, and in my experience if you're using full thrust for long enough to overheat them then you're probably wasting fuel anyway ^^ The point just before it overheats gets shit into the sky :)
It's not just overheating.  It has an aura around it that causes quantum anomalies, which then makes things taht should word not work. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MorleyDev on March 30, 2013, 12:10:26 pm
I think that's called triple speed mode :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 12:29:43 pm
Quote from: MorleyDev on March 30, 2013, 12:10:26 pm
I think that's called triple speed mode :)
I don't even LOOK at those buttons until I have a stable orbit.
What I'm talking about is that things will blow up during stage separations, stuff randomly loses control, those kinds of things.
Also, since I can't find this on google anywhere's, what is the best altitude at which to cut engines and start coasting to the apoptosis? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on March 30, 2013, 12:46:55 pm
Any hints for deisning proper SSTO spaceplanes? I get alot of tumbling because of changes in the center of mass wich is quite annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 30, 2013, 01:55:19 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 12:29:43 pm
Also, since I can't find this on google anywhere's, what is the best altitude at which to cut engines and start coasting to the apoptosis?
As soon as you're out of the atmosphere.

Or rather, as soon as you're out of the atmosphere, then keep the map open and burn prograde until the map shows you Ap to be your target altitude.  With no atmospheric drag, you WILL coast to that point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PanH on March 30, 2013, 02:55:30 pm

I don't like Rockomax parts either. It works as well with smaller parts, and there's no issue with your rocket being small, as opposed to being big.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 30, 2013, 07:52:19 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on March 30, 2013, 12:46:55 pm
Any hints for deisning proper SSTO spaceplanes? I get alot of tumbling because of changes in the center of mass wich is quite annoying.

I found out the best way to have a stable SSTO is to put the center of lift BEHIND the center of mass. This way it will ease up when fuel move around or get depleted. Also the VFM mod might help you since it allow you to move fuel around really easy and even set wich tank are depleted first. Also all fuel transfer follow the burn ration too. As long you tell it to move fuel AND oxidizer...

Having the center of lift behind the center of mass might give you trouble during take off, what you could do is snap on some landing gear in the front of your ship that you will jettison as soon you lift off so your nose is higher than your tail. Ugly but functional. Its all about finding the sweet spot for your design. What can help you is put those flipping flap on the nose of your ssto to help give if lift when needed but dont actually lift much while resting ( not maneuvring ).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 30, 2013, 09:15:34 pm
Well yeah, but it's not exactly SSTO if it has multiple stages, now is it? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 09:31:53 pm
Quote from: alway on March 30, 2013, 09:15:34 pm
Well yeah, but it's not exactly SSTO if it has multiple stages, now is it? :P
I never said it was an SSTO. :P

It IS a reusable launcher though that drops away and parachutes safely to the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 09:43:58 pm
My only succesful spaceplane so far was a glider that is dropped from a rocket at high altitudes.  I say glider because I accidently put a jet fuel fuselage in instead of a liquid fuel, and was too lazy to replace it.  Once it got to within 10,000 meters it dropped like a rock thou.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 30, 2013, 11:13:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Well i do like to hae either fuel droptank or a rocket booster to get the initial velocity required for take-off before end of runway, just for the small Mphhff it gives, or well fuel tank if i want to aquire much more m/s while in athmosphere and dump them just before going balistic orbital.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 31, 2013, 12:49:56 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 30, 2013, 11:13:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Well i do like to hae either fuel droptank or a rocket booster to get the initial velocity required for take-off before end of runway, just for the small Mphhff it gives, or well fuel tank if i want to aquire much more m/s while in athmosphere and dump them just before going balistic orbital.
No... I meant that I build my spaceplane and then strap it to a big damn rocket which launches vertically. Once it is at the target altitude I separate and the launch vehicle parachutes to safety while the plane flies on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 12:52:41 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 31, 2013, 12:49:56 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 30, 2013, 11:13:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Well i do like to hae either fuel droptank or a rocket booster to get the initial velocity required for take-off before end of runway, just for the small Mphhff it gives, or well fuel tank if i want to aquire much more m/s while in athmosphere and dump them just before going balistic orbital.
No... I meant that I build my spaceplane and then strap it to a big damn rocket which launches vertically. Once it is at the target altitude I separate and the launch vehicle parachutes to safety while the plane flies on.
That doesn't make it very much of a 'plane' then does it?  At least in the sense of calling the space shuttle a plane, then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 31, 2013, 01:01:55 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 12:52:41 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 31, 2013, 12:49:56 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on March 30, 2013, 11:13:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Well i do like to hae either fuel droptank or a rocket booster to get the initial velocity required for take-off before end of runway, just for the small Mphhff it gives, or well fuel tank if i want to aquire much more m/s while in athmosphere and dump them just before going balistic orbital.
No... I meant that I build my spaceplane and then strap it to a big damn rocket which launches vertically. Once it is at the target altitude I separate and the launch vehicle parachutes to safety while the plane flies on.
That doesn't make it very much of a 'plane' then does it?  At least in the sense of calling the space shuttle a plane, then.
It's a space plane. It flies about with wings and lift and all the things that planes use. It just happens to take off via rocket first. :)

I tried again to make a proper VTOL using rotating engines via damned robotics mod. Its really really hard to balance it all out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 02:14:39 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 12:52:41 am
That doesn't make it very much of a 'plane' then does it?  At least in the sense of calling the space shuttle a plane, then.
The Shuttle is a spaceplane. It is space-capable (i.e. it maneuvers and deorbits on its own), and does more than just drop to the ground on parachutes, even if it flies rather like a brick. Therefore, space-plane. Buran was more of a space-glider, but a glider is still a kind of plane, so. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 03:19:48 am
I suppose if you want to mince semantics.  Still, when people really talk 'spaceplanes' they talk 'it's a plane that can get to super-high altitudes and then stabilize an orbit' and if your 'plane' launches on booster rockets straight up, then it's really just a rocket with a funny looking payload.

The real distinction, I suppose, it how it gains altitude.  The space shuttle is most definitely a rocket.  What it does once it's got altitude doesn't matter quite as much, though it would be nice if it could stop being a spaceship and become an airplane again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 31, 2013, 04:00:02 am
                                        "Is it a spaceplane?" Flowchart:

                                             Does it look like a plane?
                                           |                                 |
                                         Yes                               No
                                           |                                 |
                          Does it go to space today?           Not a spaceplane
                             |                          |
                           Yes                        No
                             |                          |
                 It is a spaceplane!         Not a spaceplane
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 04:23:58 am
What you're thinking of is an SSTO Spaceplane. Not simply an SSTO (since a rocket that goes up and orbits in one piece is one too) and not just a Spaceplane (since any aerodynamically-controlled craft that lands on a runway is one as well), but an SSTO Spaceplane. The Space Shuttle is a spaceplane with oversized dual RATOs and a huge drop tank. Not an SSTO because of the rocket-assist and the drop tank, but a spaceplane nonetheless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 31, 2013, 08:23:12 am
Everyone forgetting that one the US air force has now too which gets chucked up there on a Atlas.

Space planes are basically planes that can operate in a vacuum
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on March 31, 2013, 09:01:10 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on March 31, 2013, 08:23:12 am
Everyone forgetting that one the US air force has now too which gets chucked up there on a Atlas.

Space planes are basically planes that can operate in a vacuum

Not at all. A space plane is a vehicle that can both manoever in space and perform a runway landing. Planes don't work like planes in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 31, 2013, 09:08:00 am
Hence operate in space. Not, be a plane in space. By operate, i mean, not let the crew/payload suffocate/freeze/cook.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 10:01:45 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on March 31, 2013, 09:08:00 am
Hence operate in space. Not, be a plane in space. By operate, i mean, not let the crew/payload suffocate/freeze/cook.

Well, I suppose it can function as a sort of a lifepod, but unless it can actually move in some form, it's not enough to qualify it as space-capable. You could probably seal up a nuclear sub tight enough to let the crew float around for months, but without a way to get them out of the orbit (not to mention land), it won't make a spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on March 31, 2013, 10:53:06 am
Semantics much? "operates" was a perfectly functional word for the purpose and he used it correctly...why are we picking it apart?

in fact if you look at the definition it uses the word "operate":

A spaceplane is a vehicle that operates as an aircraft in Earth's atmosphere, as well as a spacecraft when it is in space. It combines features of an aircraft and a spacecraft, which can be thought of as an aircraft that can endure and maneuver in the vacuum of space or likewise a spacecraft that can fly like an airplane.

speaking of which if you disagree with a definition put forth by someone...rather than spit back and forth of minor words and semantics...why not just put an actual definition up?

Something that is labeled as a space plane and "operates in space" and does not have a function to return its occupants to a habitable environment doesn't even exist...so I think its safe to assume he includes maneuvering and the like in with the word "operates"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 11:01:23 am
You.. did look at the definition you posted, right? "Endure and maneuver"? ;)

A spacecraft is more than a container for the crew. A spacecraft - a space vehicle - is by definition capable of propelling itself in space. Reentry capability optional, but it has to be able to at least change orbits and move around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 31, 2013, 11:11:03 am
I thought my flowchart would have closed this debate.... seems not...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 11:28:14 am
It's come up on the KSP forums as well. Some people have trouble separating the terms "Spaceplane" and "SSTO" in their minds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 12:02:42 pm
My problem there, is that the space shuttle cannot really function as a plane.  It's a Buzz Lightyear - it doesn't fly, it just falls with style.  Which is to say "it falls without exploding" and if that's the definition we're using, then a parachute drop also manages to fall without exploding.  If you're going to say it's a plane because it lands on a runway, then what if a parachute module landed on a runway?  What if a parachute module landed on a runway with wheels sticking out and going slightly horizontally?  Would it become a spaceplane if you added 1-inch wings to a parachute module?

The thing is, the space shuttle cannot perform as a plane.  It generates no lift of its own (I know wings are lifting features) and cannot actually fly.  The space shuttle cannot maintain a cruising altitude nor really controlling its flight beyond very few tweaks.  The only way it even gets to the runway, is that it got a very specific orbital insertion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 12:31:18 pm
It does do more than drop though, and, last I checked - actually lands by negating the Earth's gravity using the meager lift of its stubby wings, then deploying parachutes to slow down. Wings specifically don't factor into it, but it does have more aerodynamics than your average brick, and does have control surfaces that steer it in the air. It has little to no motive power in the air, that much is true. It's a glider, its return stage is even referred to as such. But it's still an aircraft. It can maneuver in the air, and it can maneuver in space, therefore it is both a spacecraft and an aircraft - or, by definition, a spaceplane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 31, 2013, 02:42:41 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 31, 2013, 02:25:56 pm
By using practice, a gravity turn, and a slight fuel capacity upgrade, I managed to get my hangar engines into a 200,000m orbit, with about 1500 monopropellant left, and over half fuel remaining.

Now to get the hangar modules up, dock with them, and get the haemetite fighters up into the ship.

I may also install that rockets and railguns mod...

EDIT: Well, after trying to delete some debris, I've arrived at the conclusion...

You can't. What kind of idiotic decision was that?
Grab that lazor mod system, just the basic one. It will allow you to target specific parts/debris/ship and self-destruct them from the confort of any ship/capsule. Might take a while to delete everyone of them if you have 300 different part/debris but well... Once you are done simply make sure you delete them as they appear.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2013, 03:07:33 pm
Or if they're just debris and you aren't particularly attached to any unpiloted junk you have lying around - i.e. any bases that were dropped off without a probe core or a lander pod - you can just go to options and set max debris to 0. Reload game, save, go back to options, set max debris back to 250, reload game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on March 31, 2013, 03:52:30 pm
Oi. Maybe three orange tanks or rather, nine considering I was using a tri-coupler, was overkill.

Three Mainsails at full thrust and the thing just drops right down from the tower things that hold the rocket in place.

Just upgraded from 17 to 19 by the way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 31, 2013, 04:01:23 pm
More struts, boosters and mainsails.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on March 31, 2013, 04:05:40 pm
I need less weight not more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 31, 2013, 08:20:07 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on March 30, 2013, 01:55:19 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on March 30, 2013, 12:29:43 pm
Also, since I can't find this on google anywhere's, what is the best altitude at which to cut engines and start coasting to the apoptosis?
As soon as you're out of the atmosphere.

Or rather, as soon as you're out of the atmosphere, then keep the map open and burn prograde until the map shows you Ap to be your target altitude.  With no atmospheric drag, you WILL coast to that point.
Well to get the most energy out of your fuel the best altitude for burning it is the lowest possible without too much drag (to use the Oberth effect). For Kerbin that would be above 40km. The best way would be to burn at 90deg attitude until you reach your desired Ap. Burning prograde is ok too, but if you want to absolutely maximize efficiency, burning at attitudes below 0deg (up to -10deg max) can give you the best bang for the buck by bringing the Pe above surface of the planet before even you are out of it, this makes the circularization burn at Apopsis require much less DeltaV.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2013, 08:01:50 pm
Am I the only person who straps their spaceplanes to a big rocket booster for initial launch? :P
Boosters are great both for memes and actual performance. I use them all the time. For example an 14t SSTO with 36% mass to orbit efficiency with 372m/s of Dv left
(http://i.imgur.com/VvzeUwKl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VvzeUwK)
Try beating that with your fancy JATO asparagus monsters :P huehue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 31, 2013, 08:33:35 pm
Apparently potential leaked pictures of multiplayer in the dev versions. Could just be cruel april fools though.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48697-Leaked-multiplayer-pictures-or-cruel-april-fools/ (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48697-Leaked-multiplayer-pictures-or-cruel-april-fools/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 31, 2013, 08:44:50 pm
...
Shit.

I mean, we know what happens when you pass around a save, but MULTIPLAYER? in KSP?
Wonder how long it will take to turn kerbin into something like earths atmosphere. i.e.: a mess full of random things that can blow you up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on March 31, 2013, 08:49:13 pm
Okay so I'm having a bug in version 19.1, I didn't see it on KSP's forum and I haven't seen it here.  Radial couplers do not work in the designer.  Like, I can place radial couplers, but nothing will attach to them.  All stock parts, since I just downloaded it.  Has anyone else seen a bug like this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 31, 2013, 08:50:57 pm
Yep. I just tweak it around a bunch till I get it to work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 31, 2013, 08:51:15 pm
sounds like designing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 31, 2013, 08:52:56 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on March 31, 2013, 08:49:13 pm
Okay so I'm having a bug in version 19.1, I didn't see it on KSP's forum and I haven't seen it here.  Radial couplers do not work in the designer.  Like, I can place radial couplers, but nothing will attach to them.  All stock parts, since I just downloaded it.  Has anyone else seen a bug like this?

I found the way to get around that was to look down at an extreme angle over the decoupler. It makes it easier to attach stuff for some reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on March 31, 2013, 08:55:07 pm
Alternately, You can temp attach the part to the bottom of the rocket, remove it(but DON'T delete, this is important!) and it will now attach anywhere that's valid. This seems to solve a LOT of issues involving finicky parts not wanting to attach
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on March 31, 2013, 08:56:37 pm
I usually place the part somewhere else first where i can, and then it works most of the time. Alt+F12 helps too :3

ninjaed so much >_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on March 31, 2013, 08:56:54 pm
Quote from: sluissa on March 31, 2013, 08:33:35 pm
Apparently potential leaked pictures of multiplayer in the dev versions. Could just be cruel april fools though.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48697-Leaked-multiplayer-pictures-or-cruel-april-fools/ (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48697-Leaked-multiplayer-pictures-or-cruel-april-fools/)
If that's April Fools, then they're taking a big risk losing a lot of fans :P

I'd LOVE to see co-op rocket engineering.  There's all sorts of options for constructing larger ships and plotting intercepts, not to mention things like "Who can land on Duna first" or "Rockets are now melee weapons" or "We've installed the weapons mod, what did you expect?"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on March 31, 2013, 08:59:45 pm
After Mount&Blade i'll never say never about multiplayer again, but somehow i think that that's just a prank :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on March 31, 2013, 09:13:22 pm
It's fake:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48705-My-April-Fools-joke (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/48705-My-April-Fools-joke)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 31, 2013, 09:19:12 pm
Well, damn, oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on March 31, 2013, 09:30:19 pm
Two orange tanks per engine made it much less of a deathtrap.

And then I realize the stock space station is already a habitation module.

At least I have a working delivery system now...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 01, 2013, 08:11:56 am
Fuck multiplayer anyways. Space games in the vein of orbiter and KSP just dosent go well with multiplayer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 08:17:23 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 01, 2013, 08:11:56 am
Fuck multiplayer anyways. Space games in the vein of orbiter and KSP just dosent go well with multiplayer.
Whaaaaaat!?

Two carriers battling in low Kerbal orbit sounds pretty good to me. Avoiding enemy fire is probably very easy, except that you can only control one craft at a time.

Damn, I want this :/ Stupid April Fools Day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2013, 08:17:50 am
The only problem with multiplayer is that you can't time warp without breaking a lot of stuff. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 08:20:08 am
You'd just have to plan long range journeys so all players want to warp at the same time. I assume this would be like Paradox games, except that the difference in warp speed is exponential in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2013, 08:30:39 am
Or maybe you can warp independently, but you can't warp within a certain distance from another ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 01, 2013, 09:59:32 am
Its stupid. Theres a reason why orbiter has no mp
Quote from: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 08:17:23 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 01, 2013, 08:11:56 am
Fuck multiplayer anyways. Space games in the vein of orbiter and KSP just dosent go well with multiplayer.
Whaaaaaat!?

Two carriers battling in low Kerbal orbit sounds pretty good to me. Avoiding enemy fire is probably very easy, except that you can only control one craft at a time.

Damn, I want this :/ Stupid April Fools Day.

Go play EVE.

It has stupid warp gates and no physics.

KSP just wouldnt work as a multiplayer game.
Its a design problem and a technical limit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 10:10:38 am
You know you can already have carrier battles in KSP right? It's just the multiplayer thing that is not possible yet, and I see no reason why KSP could not eventually have multiplayer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on April 01, 2013, 11:29:57 am
Damnit, I want KSP multi so badly...
The physics system and the realism would make it a wonderful space combat game. Amongst other things... But let's be honest, out of ten KSP servers, if there isnt at least half of them being massive battles, something isn't working properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 01, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
someone already has carrier battles. with no mods used. I am not lying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on April 01, 2013, 12:43:09 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 01, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
someone already has carrier battles. with no mods used. I am not lying.
I know, there is the links a couple pages ago. This is AWESOME.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 01:16:59 pm
The only multiplayer I want to see in KSP is one like this. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37085-Can-a-team-of-KSP-fans-put-an-inexperienced-pilot-on-Mun-Mission-Control-simulation)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on April 01, 2013, 01:18:21 pm
Wait how could you even have multiplayer in Kerbal Space Program?

I mean I know EA could find a way, but normal people?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 01, 2013, 01:29:00 pm
For one, the same way people have multiplayer in Dwarf Fortress. Kind of a "hotseat" game.

Second, well... with a little creativity, one could make the game dynamically save and reload a single savefile between several instances. So the underlying persistence file keeps changing, new vessels appear and move, but you don't actually see any of it happen realtime, only as fast as the game updates. A little like a very advanced PBEM game.

With the latter, you could have artillery exchanges. Two massive ships with arrays upon arrays of rockets poised to shoot at each other. As each ship fires, the game updates, the missiles in transit hopping on rails and going on static orbits. This way, the ships exchange fire without being within physics range of one another.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2013, 01:29:59 pm
Quote from: Neonivek on April 01, 2013, 01:18:21 pm
I mean I know EA could find a way, but normal people?

WUT

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on April 01, 2013, 02:22:22 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 01:16:59 pm
The only multiplayer I want to see in KSP is one like this:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37085-Can-a-team-of-KSP-fans-put-an-inexperienced-pilot-on-Mun-Mission-Control-simulation?highlight=Mission+control (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37085-Can-a-team-of-KSP-fans-put-an-inexperienced-pilot-on-Mun-Mission-Control-simulation?highlight=Mission+control)

I support this.

The idea of having multiplayer where 1 player is ground crew and 1 is pilot would be fun. Ground crew can have access to a bunch of the map information and mission planning stuff while the player is stuck in the cockpit.

Beyond that...

Seriously, getting a many part ship next to a many part station slows computers to 1fps anyways. Why on earth would we want that complicated by a network and another ship actually *moving*. Turning it into a space combat game wouldn't be that fun either, it doesn't play like a space fighter game. Most of the battles would be worse than docking attempts where you get close only to miss it and end up really far away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on April 01, 2013, 02:25:41 pm
The biggest issue I think is that Kerbal Space Program isn't a game about running a space station. It is a game about building the best space ship for fun (This game falls under game by having what I call an "implied goal")

Ok.. fine here is an idea

It is a versus mode and each player gets a section of a rocket that are not allowed to change (So it could be large and clunky) and the first one to get it to fly to the target wins.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on April 01, 2013, 02:26:29 pm
Quote from: Fikes on April 01, 2013, 02:22:22 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 01:16:59 pm
The only multiplayer I want to see in KSP is one like this:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37085-Can-a-team-of-KSP-fans-put-an-inexperienced-pilot-on-Mun-Mission-Control-simulation?highlight=Mission+control (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37085-Can-a-team-of-KSP-fans-put-an-inexperienced-pilot-on-Mun-Mission-Control-simulation?highlight=Mission+control)

I support this.

The idea of having multiplayer where 1 player is ground crew and 1 is pilot would be fun. Ground crew can have access to a bunch of the map information and mission planning stuff while the player is stuck in the cockpit.

Beyond that...

Seriously, getting a many part ship next to a many part station slows computers to 1fps anyways. Why on earth would we want that complicated by a network and another ship actually *moving*. Turning it into a space combat game wouldn't be that fun either, it doesn't play like a space fighter game. Most of the battles would be worse than docking attempts where you get close only to miss it and end up really far away.

Ｉ’ｍ　ａｆｒａｉｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ｉｔ　ｄｏｅｓｎ’ｔ　ｐｌａｙ　ａｓ　ａ　ｓｐａｃｅ　ｆｉｇｈｔｅｒ　ｇａｍｅ　ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ｏｎｌｙ　ｓｅｃｏｎｄａｒｙ　ｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｇｏａｌ　ｏｆ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ａ．．．　ｗｅｌｌ，　ｓｐａｃｅ　ｐｒｏｇｒａｍ　ｓｉｍｕｌａｔｏｒ．　Ａｌｓｏ，　ｗｅ　ｈａｖｅｎ’ｔ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｈｉｔ　０．２　ｙｅｔ，　ｈａｖｅ　ｗｅ？　Ｉ’ｍ　ｐｒｅｔｔｙ　ｓｕｒｅ　ｔｈａｔ　ｕｎｔｉｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｕｌｌ　ｖｅｒｓｉｏｎ　ｉｓ　ｒｅｌｅａｓｅｄ　（Ｉ　ｇｉｖｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｔｗｏ　ｙｅａｒｓ，　ｐｅｒｓｏｎａｌｌｙ）　ｅｖｅｒｙｔｈｉｎｇ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｂｅ　ｎｉｃｅｌｙ　ｏｐｔｉｍｉｚｅｄ　ａｎｄ　ｗｅ　ｍｉｇｈｔ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｇｅｔ　ｍｕｌｔｉｐｌａｙｅｒ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｆｏｒｍ　ｏｆ，　ｆｏｒ　ｅｘａｍｐｌｅ，　ａ　ｇｏｏｄ　ｐａｒｔ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｈｙｓｉｃｓ　ｃａｌｃｕｌａｔｉｏｎｓ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｏｆｆｌｏａｄｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｈｏｓｔ　ｓｅｒｖｅｒ．　Ａｎｄ　ｗｅ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｒｅａｌｌｙ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｗｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｅｃｈｎｏｌｏｇｙ　ｏｆ　ｔｗｏ　ｙｅａｒｓ　ｆｒｏｍ　ｎｏｗ　ｃａｎ　ｂｒｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｕｓ　ｉｎ　ｔｅｒｍｓ　ｏｆ　ｈａｒｄｗａｒｅ，　ｅｉｔｈｅｒ．
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on April 01, 2013, 02:29:00 pm
You sure this game is even about a Space program? I thought that was just part of the name and really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 02:38:06 pm
Neo doesn't understand how 'in development' works.  They're getting the parts and physics under control before adding campaign mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 01, 2013, 02:45:58 pm
You know guys, the thing that killed SpaceBuild was when people stopped having fun building ships and flying around in junk and all the scifi ship prefab bullshit and combat centered gameplay came along..

KSP is about fun and experimentation, not lasers and alium battles and spase marheens
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 02:47:23 pm
Nobody is forcing you to make combat ships DrPoo...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on April 01, 2013, 02:52:24 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 02:38:06 pm
Neo doesn't understand how 'in development' works.  They're getting the parts and physics under control before adding campaign mode.

It isn't that, I just didn't know that was the dirrection they were going.

I thought this was going to stick to being a Spaceship Impossible machine and not Spaceship tycoon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on April 01, 2013, 03:00:02 pm
I wonder what would happen if you ran out of money building metal deathtraps in campaign mode...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 03:00:23 pm
They've openly declared on the Squad forums that it'll eventually be about money and goals, being able to accept contract work like "put this news satellite into orbit" for pay and getting government grants for doing a research space station or bringing back Mun rocks and whatever.  Already, a lot of players are streamlining their 'serious' rocket designs to fly cheap and to put parachutes on parts, because eventually recovering parts means being able to re-use parts, and that reduces overhead cost.  Fuel is also a concern, later, because it won't be free, so anyone who's already designing careful fuel use will have an advantage once campaign mode sets in.

The game will ALWAYS have free build mode, though.  That's just been too much to clip it out of the final version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 03:02:23 pm
They also stated that they will never add combat to the game. The lack of actual combat parts is probably what makes combat so fun in this game xD.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 03:06:36 pm
As such things go, fuel isn't much of an expense compared to the cost of parts. SSTO and recycling gets much more attractive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 01, 2013, 03:30:28 pm
Remember that big transport ship I created a while back? I finished refueling it with horrible FPS.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Turned out, however, with those two spaceplanes docked the engines of the ship became terribly inefficient that even full throttle would be painful. Furthermore, a single docking port was highly unstable for high-thrust maneuvers. Instead, I had to undock the spaceplanes and send them separately. Our target?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wasn't too hard with the new adjustments, just had to start off with multiple slow jerks instead of one big jerk.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was however, still using too much fuel than intended but in the end it worked out. Sort of. By the time I reached Duna I noticed I would never be able enter orbit with the fuel consumption/impulse I had. A compromise was found.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In the end, we all entered orbit. At the cost of no return.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shortly followed by one of the Populators.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Since the fuel reserves of the Populator were quite low, I decided to try to land it first as a benchmark. A "transfer orbit" was devised.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The approach seemed reasonable...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There was still no sign of the atmosphere thus a small final retrothrust...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then I found it, but Duna was a far harsher mistress than I realized.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"No Oxygen" - Epitaph of the Populator
In a last-ditch effort to salvage something, I tried gliding my way down. But it was all for naught as I couldn't counter the vertical velocity.

With the Populator having had received an early retirement, it was time to move on and send down the Colonials. The first Colonial I lowered itself to a 430 km orbit and detached its two probes. One landed intact, the other broke its solar panel.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then I tried landing the actual colony module, which began the eternal torment of Ike whom always interfered with my orbits.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The module, however, didn't survive the crash landing on Duna. I had once again underestimated Duna. The atmosphere twisted the module that tore apart the parachutes.
Attempting another landing with a different Colonial I didn't change the outcome. A direct landing approach on Duna was inadvisable. For the third Colonial I I attempted an aerobraking maneuver. I came in low on the far side of Duna and hoped the atmosphere would cut down on the orbital velocity. The low atmosphere of Duna wasn't thick enough. Only option left was a partial, powered descent.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One small step for Kerbal, one giant leap for Kerbalkind.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I attempted a similar approach with the final Colonial I with greater success.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With the ground firmly secured, it was time to launch the satellites, one at 100 km, the other at 500 km.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lastly, the rovers. They followed a similar approach as the Colonial I.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I took one of the rovers for a spin towards a Colonial I module.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All in all, a success despite the early retirements of a few Kerbalnauts. Now I just need to find a way to bring a few Kerbals back to Kerbin...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 01, 2013, 03:37:30 pm
good luck.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 03:39:44 pm
I hereby put forth a challenge to any interested!

Your craft must be 100 tons or less.
Whoever gets the largest tonnage into orbit wins.
Only mods allowed are Mechjeb, Protractor, and other 'not changing how your rocket works' type mods - ie, no new engines or fuel tanks or wings or whatever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 01, 2013, 03:50:24 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 03:39:44 pm
I hereby put forth a challenge to any interested!

Your craft must be 100 tons or less.
Whoever gets the largest tonnage into orbit wins.
Only mods allowed are Mechjeb, Protractor, and other 'not changing how your rocket works' type mods - ie, no new engines or fuel tanks or wings or whatever.
Any restrictions on staging?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 03:58:51 pm
Girlinhat, how high must the orbit be?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 01, 2013, 04:02:41 pm
i think atleast 80 km...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 04:23:22 pm
Stable orbit, no other restrictions.  This is a test of efficiency, to see how well you can lift a mass.  The highest weight in orbit wins - Mechjeb can be good for this to help get an accurate tonnage measure on the fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on April 01, 2013, 05:48:30 pm
I am having a bitch of a time getting a H.O.M.E. station into orbit, let alone even bother burning for another planet. Has anyone else managed to get a 4-habitat style station into orbit and beyond? I'm only using HOME and Mechjeb.


The layout is basically below, with N being the power plant. Maybe I suffer from bigger is better syndrome but I normally just wind up using a single orange tank under each habitat with a mainsail engine and then surrounding it with additional boosters/mainsails that feed into the center to keep it going once the excess drops away.

O    O
  \  /
   N
  / \
O   O

I also might have stayed up for the last day doing classwork and whatnot so I'm missing something oblivious. Or maybe it's just too damn heavy, but I don't believe in that rubbish. There are always more rockets to add.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 06:07:13 pm
I'm not familiar with HOME, but I do know that orange tanks are HEAVY things, and usually don't make it into orbit due to their massive weight.

My usual system for rocket design has changed a bit with discovering JATO.  I've made these 4-split jet modules that can lift about 50 tons each, which isn't significant but they can keep going up to 15km and that can help your rocket gain speed during that time.  Then start asparagus staging, which would be -perfect- in a 5 tower setup as you've described.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on April 01, 2013, 06:10:15 pm
I'll look into that, or ditching the orange beasts for the traditional 3m full tanks. I don't have a whole lot of mods yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 06:16:08 pm
Your mods aren't the issue.  The problem is likely just basic design.  Stock parts should pretty much always be enough to get any given craft in orbit, as long as you realize the big goal isn't just to strap engines everywhere.  The REAL goal is to burn your fuel as slowly as possible, honestly.  Packing in more efficient engines and longer burn durations will get you a lot further than burst speeds.

I'm doing a Mun landing and return via Mechjeb right now, when it's done I'll see if I can't grab HOME and get a 5-tower module to the Mun.

EDIT: Crashed on return, because Mechjeb didn't know how to let the solar panels face the sun, so it perfectly crashed at a 90 degree angle to prevent the solar panels working.

Downloaded HOME, am confused how you even get these modules mounted in the X shape.  When attempting to attach them to anything other than a direct stack, they bug out and refuse to mount radially.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 01, 2013, 06:41:39 pm
If I were to install MechJeb, would it work on my existing save file? I have a ship enroute to my station core (an orange fuel tank, lights, crew, antennae, and additional batteries and solar power), but I can't quite get the rendezvous to work correctly. Would I have to start everything over again?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 06:51:27 pm
Yup, since mechjeb works only if you have a certain module attached
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 06:51:58 pm
Mechjeb is a small module that enables the plugin, so you'd need to launch a new ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 01, 2013, 07:07:36 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 01, 2013, 06:51:58 pm
Mechjeb is a small module that enables the plugin, so you'd need to launch a new ship.
unless he added mechjeb functions to the default command pods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on April 01, 2013, 07:54:17 pm
You could also launch a mechjeb craft, dock it to the already orbited craft you want to rendezvous and then rendezvous the combination with the station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 01, 2013, 07:57:02 pm
The rendezvousing craft is already on course. In about ten minutes game-time, it will be within 4km of the station core <_<
After that it might never meet up again.

Chalk it up to en earlier refusal to use mods :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on April 01, 2013, 08:06:45 pm
If it'll be within 4km and not going in the opposite direction, then you should be good. 4km is close enough to match velocity and direct burn to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 08:07:23 pm
So....I think I might have broken KSP. The game completely glitches out whenever I try to load THIS:


(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4946/22apr012005.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 01, 2013, 08:09:59 pm
Same direction, yes. I just keep screwing up the approach and end up burning up lots of fuel trying and failing repeatedly to get closer and stationary (relative to the core). Eventually I just end up on a Kerbin entry trajectory or rocketing off into space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 08:19:05 pm
Quote from: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 08:07:23 pm
So....I think I might have broken KSP. The game completely glitches out whenever I try to load THIS:
The 'Hello World" bug seems to be associated with corrupted ship files. Don't know if there's much to be done, but it should only be the one ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 08:19:53 pm
Tips for docking:

Remember whenever you get close enough to the target the nav changes to be relative to your current target, so you can burn prograde and retrograde without deorbiting yourself. So steps to dock:

1)Get close enough to target(within 4km or so)

2)burn retrograde(GREEN retrograde icon) to kill relative V

3)turn to PURPLE prograde marker and burn towards that(~25m/s will do)

4)repeat steps 2&3 as necessary until you are within around 100m. Kill V again

5)Turn on RCS autopilot(J/K, though that mod DOES help getting docking down). Turn on docking mode, and use your RCS to align with docking port and slowly move towards target and dock
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on April 01, 2013, 08:29:12 pm
What uses Electricity anyway?

The ones I know,

Rover wheels.

Lights.

Ion engines.

Is that it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 08:31:24 pm
any sort of probe core as well
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 01, 2013, 08:33:58 pm
I'm a little surprised that the scientific instruments and antennae don't take electricity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 08:38:37 pm
Instruments use electricity if you turn them on. Antennae don't do anything so I don't think they should be consuming electricity either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 01, 2013, 08:42:44 pm
Well, the instruments weren't mentioned before, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 01, 2013, 08:54:31 pm
Too little, too late.

You ignorant scoundrel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 09:17:52 pm
Hey Girlinhat, I've been experimenting with your JATOs, and with smaller rockets bicoupler JATOs are extremely awesome. I managed to get my tug core up to 200m/s before needing to dump them!

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9870/23apr012112.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 10:53:05 pm
Quote from: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 09:17:52 pm
Hey Girlinhat, I've been experimenting with your JATOs, and with smaller rockets bicoupler JATOs are extremely awesome. I managed to get my tug core up to 200m/s before needing to dump them!
If you have more than one intake per jet engine, you'll get much more performance out of them. If you can level out before passing the jet's ceiling (which depends on how many intakes you have, 15-20km is a pretty good ceiling) you can get yourself up to orbital speed (2100m/s) quite easily before dropping the jets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 02, 2013, 12:18:46 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 01, 2013, 10:53:05 pm
Quote from: tryrar on April 01, 2013, 09:17:52 pm
Hey Girlinhat, I've been experimenting with your JATOs, and with smaller rockets bicoupler JATOs are extremely awesome. I managed to get my tug core up to 200m/s before needing to dump them!
If you have more than one intake per jet engine, you'll get much more performance out of them. If you can level out before passing the jet's ceiling (which depends on how many intakes you have, 15-20km is a pretty good ceiling) you can get yourself up to orbital speed (2100m/s) quite easily before dropping the jets.
10-12 intakes per jet engine on 1,1 TWR jet only craft can reach 60x40km "orbit" inside atmosphere without any wings or rockets. It's 50-70m/s of stable orbit so after adding some LV-N's ic can be a SSTO with 90-95% mass to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on April 02, 2013, 01:57:04 am
If you don't feel like having 12 intakes for your engine to fly at 50km, just putting some radial intakes on that vertical design might help, i think, they may provide more air at the velocities and altitudes that it caps out at now.
Might not help either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 02, 2013, 02:11:46 am
Quote from: sneakey pete on April 02, 2013, 01:57:04 am
If you don't feel like having 12 intakes for your engine to fly at 50km, just putting some radial intakes on that vertical design might help, i think, they may provide more air at the velocities and altitudes that it caps out at now.
Might not help either.
Radial intakes are good for slow flight, the problem is they generate enormous drag at high speeds. Since turbojets gain more power with speed up until 1000m/s the effects cancel out, but going much faster than 1000m/s is problematic and going above 2000m/s on radials is almost impossible. For low number of intakes and only vertical JATO (i think) they are almost as good or better than ram intakes, but for horizontal acceleration only rams and circular intakes work well. (engine nacelles generate even more drag while giving less air so even if used as a visual part, it's better to close them off).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 02, 2013, 03:14:18 am
What does JATO mean? Jeb's Ass To Orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 02, 2013, 03:43:57 am
Jet-Assisted Take Off. Basically strapping several jet-powered boosters to your rocket
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 05:25:24 am
Though I suppose "Jeb-Assisted Take-Off" is a nice spin on the meaning. :P

Technically these are just jet boosters. A rocket doesn't take off, it lifts off. JATO is an aviation term, usually used on large prop planes. These would be.. JALO. :P

And yes, there's RATO as well. Those are just the usual SRB boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 02, 2013, 05:46:41 am
What is a good level of acceleration to have while still in the atmosphere? I'm sucking really hard at fundamental rocket design right now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 02, 2013, 07:41:44 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 02, 2013, 05:46:41 am
What is a good level of acceleration to have while still in the atmosphere? I'm sucking really hard at fundamental rocket design right now.

You want to apply infinite thrust at the beginning(in practise: as much as possible), then throttle down when you reach about 200 m/s in the lower atmos.

The calculations are waaaay complicated, I began to model it, but there is just so many factors, so I kinda gave up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 02, 2013, 07:45:52 am
The basic rules would be (1) go at a fast enough speed to get out of the atmosphere as soon as possible without suffering too much from drag (usually round 200 m/s) (2) go full throttle as soon as you get out of the first 1/4th of the atmosphere until your apoapsis is high enough to touch your intended orbit. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 08:00:13 am
A good suggestion is to aim for a TWR of 2. I.e. you want to "fall upwards". Just aim for the second mark on the G-meter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 02, 2013, 08:39:13 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 02, 2013, 03:14:18 am
What does JATO mean? Jeb's Ass To Orbit?
www.lmgtfy.com/?q=JATO

Also, some hilarity?
http://youtu.be/yyDocdJp_gs

No regrets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 09:16:50 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 02, 2013, 05:46:41 am
What is a good level of acceleration to have while still in the atmosphere? I'm sucking really hard at fundamental rocket design right now.
I aim for 100m/s till about 11-13 km (which is where the atmosphere gauge drops below the thick blue bar) up, then open the throttle up with my gravity turn. I -believe- the ideal speed for any given altitude is equal to terminal velocity at that altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 02, 2013, 09:21:55 am
That kinda makes sense.
Though 100 m/s is too slow, if your rocket is capable of going faster. tests have shown it's somewhere around 200-230 m/s depending on the craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 09:30:54 am
Terminal velocity is a good ballpark estimate, which is why a TWR of 2 is the easiest way to gauge your performance. If you accelerate upward at two gees, you are falling upward - therefore going roughly at terminal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 02, 2013, 10:46:52 am
Adding to the acceleration (TWR) discussion.

Kerbal-X (which is craft file shipped with stock game) is very good example on how to set up staging with the right amount of power. The TWR of 2, is also a very good guideline.

But if you want to maximize efficiency a TWR 1,7-1,8 is great for longer staging. Reason being that you burn fuel as you go so just before burnout of the stage you get 2,2-2,4 TWR. So the average is around 2.
The theory of launching with 2 TWR and throttling down to maintain terminal velocity is sound but in reality you haul useless mass in form of not used engines.
If you design a rocket with stages starting at for example TWR 1,7 its important also to keep 100% throttle above 2 TWR to accelerate further for the next stage.

Also a small guideline for ascents- try to fly 200m/s vertical when at 8km, then start slowly turning east, going around 60deg attitude at 300m/s and 45deg at 500m/s. From that try to fly prograde (where your orbital velocity vector is pointing) and watch your Apopsis (in map view) and not go below 30deg untill your Ap is 30km and from then try to get to 0deg attitude at 50km Apopsis. Keeping 0deg is generally best while increasing Ap until desired one, after that is just standard circularization burn when reaching Ap altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 02, 2013, 11:17:58 am
We interrupt this discussion to bring you something silly and moddy and quite the opposite. Submarines!

...well, attempts at submarines. They're still the 'really hard to control' phase, but they're technically functional without requiring absurd amounts of mass or anything like that. As you may have guessed from the GUI, this is Hooligan Labs airships stuff! ...But modded to have negative volume. Which makes the controls and stats all wonky, but surprisingly does not break the game! It's just that it's really, really twitchy and kind of tough to control.
Here, have a bunch of pics.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 12:33:27 pm
Hey, that's awesome! How are you dealing with the underwater camera problem?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 02, 2013, 12:40:30 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 12:33:27 pm
Hey, that's awesome! How are you dealing with the underwater camera problem?

Not very well. :P

On the plus side, underwater rovers+ Mk1 Cockpit= actually looks pretty neat.

Also, the sub behaves weirdly in regard to depth. Your 'buoyancy' has relatively little effect on the water's surface, and it takes some time to sink fully, especially if you have a lot of bits that, well, float. As long as you're barely underneath the surface, you can actually go around quite well and the sub tends to stay mostly horizontal. Once you get down lower, though, it's sort of like breaking surface tension: suddenly the 'buoyancy' becomes far more responsive, and the sub tends to go vertical one way or another, and usually starts heading down. The fact that the force exerted by the 'balloons' increases as you get lower may be part of the cause of this. There's also the fact that those winglets in the back do generate lift and tend to point you in the direction of travel, something not always preferable. 

Oh, and if you roll enough you go forwards XD

In short:

Boating on surface: controllable just fine.
Subbing just under the surface: reasonably controllable.
Going at depth: Can be difficult to control.
Roving underwater: you have traction.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 02, 2013, 12:53:34 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 09:30:54 am
Terminal velocity is a good ballpark estimate, which is why a TWR of 2 is the easiest way to gauge your performance. If you accelerate upward at two gees, you are falling upward - therefore going roughly at terminal velocity.

But you won't be going at terminal velocity right at takeoff.
The idea is burn max and then throttle down to 2 TWR, once you hit terminal velocity.
Every second you are not in orbit, Kerbin pulls you down with a force of 1 G, so we gotta get into orbit quick!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 01:06:54 pm
Like Nao said above, throttling down from the start is a bad idea. Well, it's sound compared to a full throttle burn with TWR>2, but it's a bad design if it has a TWR of more than 2 and has to do that. Basically, the only reason you are hauling up the mass of your engines is because they provide you with thrust. If you throttle them down, you are hauling up extra mass, because for the same thrust as you throttle down to, you could have just installed less engines.

The solution is actually simple, and very kerbal. Just add boosters! SRB's are cheap, cheerful, and provide a good enough kick for the initial ascent stage that your rocket can resume a TWR 2 burn upwards for the rest of the flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 02, 2013, 01:23:25 pm
Why is a TWR of 2 ideal?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2013, 01:27:49 pm
Because something around terminal velocity (i.e. the speed you'd normally fall at) is a decent estimate at the optimal ascent speed to balance delta-V losses against atmospheric drag and gravity. If your thrust-to-mass ratio is 2, you can accelerate upward at two G's. One G is counteracted by Kerbin's gravity, and the practical upshot of a TWR of 2 is that you are essentially "falling upwards", naturally hitting terminal velocity on your way up, and probably being significantly more efficient than if you had a much higher or lower TWR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 03:06:15 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 02, 2013, 12:40:30 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 12:33:27 pm
Hey, that's awesome! How are you dealing with the underwater camera problem?

Not very well. :P

On the plus side, underwater rovers+ Mk1 Cockpit= actually looks pretty neat.

Also, the sub behaves weirdly in regard to depth. Your 'buoyancy' has relatively little effect on the water's surface, and it takes some time to sink fully, especially if you have a lot of bits that, well, float. As long as you're barely underneath the surface, you can actually go around quite well and the sub tends to stay mostly horizontal. Once you get down lower, though, it's sort of like breaking surface tension: suddenly the 'buoyancy' becomes far more responsive, and the sub tends to go vertical one way or another, and usually starts heading down. The fact that the force exerted by the 'balloons' increases as you get lower may be part of the cause of this. There's also the fact that those winglets in the back do generate lift and tend to point you in the direction of travel, something not always preferable. 

Oh, and if you roll enough you go forwards XD

In short:

Boating on surface: controllable just fine.
Subbing just under the surface: reasonably controllable.
Going at depth: Can be difficult to control.
Roving underwater: you have traction.
Hmm... Because buoyancy is a plugin, it could be added to all your sub parts to allow for uniform negative buoyancy across the sub; this -might- help with some control issues. And I wonder if a sub that is tall rather than wide would work better.

  How well do the jets work underwater? Snjo's Firespitter parts have props that can supply thrust based on atmosphere density, so these may give you a bit more bang for your fuel-budget.

Finally, how did you modify for negative buoyancy? I haven't dissected that mod in any way well enough to know if I could do it myself. Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 02, 2013, 03:06:35 pm
This little link will give you the best terminal velocity at multiple athmospheric stage. This table reflect the most efficient grav/drag velocity.

Edit: Brain fart. http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbin#Atmosphere
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 02, 2013, 03:35:49 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 02, 2013, 03:06:35 pm
This little link will give you the best terminal velocity at multiple athmospheric stage. This table reflect the most efficient grav/drag velocity.
What link?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 02, 2013, 07:18:03 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 02, 2013, 11:17:58 am
Submarines!
Awesome! :D
The old Hyperedit had "submarine" mode which zeroed buoyancy out. It was quite fun to swim around but the camera problems were a killer :(. Idk if the newer hyperedit has this option since it dropped a bunch of them some time ago. I think i have it uploaded somewhere, if you are interested i can finding and posting it. (most features still work on 0.19)

Quote from: Dutchling on April 02, 2013, 01:23:25 pm
Why is a TWR of 2 ideal?
Maybe this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/44090-Isp-G-and-optimal-ascent-profile?p=506191&viewfull=1#post506191) little link can help you. It has a chart and not super hard math in it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 03, 2013, 10:32:15 am
Note that the equations in the link says that TWR=2 is only desirable when you are already at terminal velocity, a=0.

To actually use the equations we have to test a craft to find it's terminal velocity, or drag factor(either will do), next you will have to do a separate calculation for each moment of the flight, with the changing mass.

The calculations also simplify the drag coefficient to b, when it's really A*d (where A is the atmospheric pressure and d is the drag "number"(which again is simplified from a*d))
So this does not account for the fact that once you move fast enough to actually throttle down, the atmosphere is only 80% of ground level.

We'd need to throw at least 2 integrals on top of this, and plug in the rocket equation, to get the right answer.

Which is why the link does not give any usable calculations, because more maths is needed!



Also this "Y represents the required mass fraction of engines fuel and fuel tanks to reach mun orbit."
what the hell is a mass fraction of engines !?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 03, 2013, 12:17:03 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 03:06:15 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 02, 2013, 12:40:30 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 02, 2013, 12:33:27 pm
Hey, that's awesome! How are you dealing with the underwater camera problem?

Not very well. :P

On the plus side, underwater rovers+ Mk1 Cockpit= actually looks pretty neat.

Also, the sub behaves weirdly in regard to depth. Your 'buoyancy' has relatively little effect on the water's surface, and it takes some time to sink fully, especially if you have a lot of bits that, well, float. As long as you're barely underneath the surface, you can actually go around quite well and the sub tends to stay mostly horizontal. Once you get down lower, though, it's sort of like breaking surface tension: suddenly the 'buoyancy' becomes far more responsive, and the sub tends to go vertical one way or another, and usually starts heading down. The fact that the force exerted by the 'balloons' increases as you get lower may be part of the cause of this. There's also the fact that those winglets in the back do generate lift and tend to point you in the direction of travel, something not always preferable. 

Oh, and if you roll enough you go forwards XD

In short:

Boating on surface: controllable just fine.
Subbing just under the surface: reasonably controllable.
Going at depth: Can be difficult to control.
Roving underwater: you have traction.
Hmm... Because buoyancy is a plugin, it could be added to all your sub parts to allow for uniform negative buoyancy across the sub; this -might- help with some control issues. And I wonder if a sub that is tall rather than wide would work better.

  How well do the jets work underwater? Snjo's Firespitter parts have props that can supply thrust based on atmosphere density, so these may give you a bit more bang for your fuel-budget.

Finally, how did you modify for negative buoyancy? I haven't dissected that mod in any way well enough to know if I could do it myself. Thanks!

1: That's what I did, as it happens. Well, at least all of the fuselages. And maybe.
2:  Just fine, really. I might try it though. It would remove the need for silly air intakes. :P
3. Well, the equation of buoyant force is the density of the fluid (which makes sense- it's easier to float in denser stuff, right?) times the volume displaced by the object times the acceleration of gravity. The Hooligan Labs airships have an (effective) volume stat used for calculating said buoyancy. Edit it to be negative and you have negative buoyancy. Surprisingly, it doesn't crash the game, although it certainly seems to confuse the GUI showing net force and would probably make altitude control mode fail horribly. Also, strangely, I'm not sure the exact stat matters that much, as long as its negative. I'm guessing water really is stupidly dense in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 03, 2013, 01:24:45 pm
Spoiler: Second Populator arriving at Eve (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: New rover at Colonial I-NA Munbase (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 03, 2013, 05:16:13 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 02, 2013, 03:35:49 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 02, 2013, 03:06:35 pm
This little link will give you the best terminal velocity at multiple athmospheric stage. This table reflect the most efficient grav/drag velocity.
What link?
Sorry had a brain fart... http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbin#Atmosphere
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 03, 2013, 06:24:11 pm
Quote from: ank on April 03, 2013, 10:32:15 am
Note that the equations in the link says that TWR=2 is only desirable when you are already at terminal velocity, a=0.

To actually use the equations we have to test a craft to find it's terminal velocity, or drag factor(either will do), next you will have to do a separate calculation for each moment of the flight, with the changing mass.

The calculations also simplify the drag coefficient to b, when it's really A*d (where A is the atmospheric pressure and d is the drag "number"(which again is simplified from a*d))
So this does not account for the fact that once you move fast enough to actually throttle down, the atmosphere is only 80% of ground level.

We'd need to throw at least 2 integrals on top of this, and plug in the rocket equation, to get the right answer.

Which is why the link does not give any usable calculations, because more maths is needed!



Also this "Y represents the required mass fraction of engines fuel and fuel tanks to reach mun orbit."
what the hell is a mass fraction of engines !?
Yep, the calculations are simplified, but show why 2 and not infinity or 1 (that was my goal here). Getting better model will not give much better efficiency anyways due to part and control limitations. Mechjeb's ascent autopilot covers some of the advanced math, so it uses ~2,1 TWR on kerbin.

The fraction was used because i wanted the chart to be applicable to any ship. The Y axis effectively corresponds to launch mass needed to get specific cargo mass in orbit (1-(cargo_mass_[kg]/launch_mass_[kg]))*100% cargo mass being 1000kg in my trials.
I'm not really good at math nor english, so its probably not the proper way to show data, but im trying to get better as i go with this :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 03, 2013, 07:33:46 pm
As far as english goes you are handling yourself very well, much better than i do ( im french ).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 03, 2013, 11:46:20 pm
SSTO's are hard :<

With this in mind, I'd like to show off one of my latest attempts! Well, one of my earlier things that I looked at and said 'hmm, maybe this could SSTO, y'know?"

So I brought up the Recettear! Being named after a game I desperately need to play (DX ), it is a two-man tailsitter VTOL spaceplane.

Unfortunately, I then realized something: It doesn't quite have enough TWR to get off the ground with jets alone. Needless to say, this is silly, so I strapped some SRBS to the side, instantly disqualifying it from being an SSTO. But hey. SRBs are cheap.
Spoiler: Takeoff roll! (click to show/hide)

It does a bit better once it's at altitude.
Spoiler: Go go gadget spaceplane! (click to show/hide)

THen the time came to transition from jets to rockets and things got... harrowing.
Spoiler: Control is hard, featuring pointing the wrong way (click to show/hide)
It didn't have enough delta-v to make a stable orbit...
Spoiler: Fun fact: the maneuver node does not result in a stable orbit. (click to show/hide)

On the plus side, awesome reentry pics were had.

Spoiler:  We didn't start the fire~ (click to show/hide)

Eventually, I went  in for a landing.

Spoiler: see above (click to show/hide)
And then the parachutes ripped the cockpit off. AGAIN.

RIP Jebediah Kerman #9261. Your temporary death was not in vain.
Spoiler: forgetting something? (click to show/hide)
On a side note, the unpiloted remains hit the ground softly-ish, but fell over and broke apart. Jeb's co-pilot would have survived, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 04, 2013, 03:47:19 am
@Nao
Yeah your English is fine.

I see how the graph works now, and I can see your point that adding more engines after a certain point will just make the craft heavier.

The thing is that infinite boost at liftoff will still be optimal, IF you don't count the mass of the engines.(but we do)
What you should really take away from this is that you should never throttle down on a moon ascend(besides for steering purposes), but strapping on 5 more engines is not gonna make your ascend any more efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 04:04:00 am
Until after a point, perhaps. More engines will certainly reduce your gravity losses as you get out of the gravity well faster (without an atmosphere present), but yeah - extra mass reduces your Delta-V in space. You have to scale your design so that it has enough engines to lift off anywhere it is supposed to lift off as fast as possible, yet still not so many engines that it doesn't have enough delta-v to get anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 04, 2013, 04:20:05 am
But extra engines will also add to the gravity loss, because they add mass.

What we need to do is find the Dv needed for a Mun ascend, plug it into the rocket equation, then use differential calculus to find the optimal engine weight.
Or you can just fucking take off from the Mun, without any maths, since it's so easy :)

Also remember that the TWR=2 has no relation to a Mun ascend, since there is no atmosphere, and the Mun only has about 0,165 G.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 04:46:22 am
Yep. Though a Mun TWR of 2 is vastly different from a Kerbin TWR of 2, and taking off from the Mun with a Kerbin TWR of 2 is pretty damn efficient. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 04, 2013, 04:52:14 am
Yup:
Kerbin TWR 2 = Mun TWR 12

That's why you are finding such low values for TWR Nao: you are forgetting dividing by 0.166
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on April 04, 2013, 06:43:22 am
Hol-ee sheet. Just did my first dock (I know, behind the times) and hell, was it stressful. It took about 10 iterations of my craft (which was just 4 empty fuselages) until I managed it, and I still have to do that again for my station plan... YAY! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 06:47:22 am
Quote from: Spaghetti7 on April 04, 2013, 06:43:22 am
Hol-ee sheet. Just did my first dock (I know, behind the times) and hell, was it stressful. It took about 10 iterations of my craft (which was just 4 empty fuselages) until I managed it, and I still have to do that again for my station plan... YAY! :P

Still haven't bothered to make a station or dock. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 07:03:59 am
You'll never have had a stressful dock until you misjudge the speed of your 60-ton SSTO monstrocity and have to push RCS for all it's worth to pirouette the thing over the forest of solar panels and protruding habitation modules of your orbital refuelling depot. Fumbled approach disregarded, the docking itself went comparatively smooth afterwards. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on April 04, 2013, 07:17:17 am
Quote from: Twi on April 04, 2013, 06:47:22 am
Quote from: Spaghetti7 on April 04, 2013, 06:43:22 am
Hol-ee sheet. Just did my first dock (I know, behind the times) and hell, was it stressful. It took about 10 iterations of my craft (which was just 4 empty fuselages) until I managed it, and I still have to do that again for my station plan... YAY! :P

Still haven't bothered to make a station or dock. :P
Don't. Just, stay away. :D

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 07:03:59 am
You'll never have had a stressful dock until you misjudge the speed of your 60-ton SSTO monstrocity and have to push RCS for all it's worth to pirouette the thing over the forest of solar panels and protruding habitation modules of your orbital refuelling depot. Fumbled approach disregarded, the docking itself went comparatively smooth afterwards. :P
Um... Yeah, I'll keep right away from that, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 04, 2013, 07:42:07 am
During a ultra-heavy docking (something like fifty tons of extremely heavy, wobbly spare parts), I bumped the station and feared it would fall apart, what with all its shaking. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 08:17:38 am
So.. in other news, I have now installed two extra mods to my usual complement of "KSPX and nothing else, if that".

First one is the FAR plugin, the one dealing with improved aerodynamics. I find that it greatly helps when you can designate surfaces to only control certain directions, as well as create flaps and airbrakes. The extra aerodynamics... well, on one hand they make things easier. For rocketry, they're a tremendous improvement (so much so that if KSP ever adopts a similar system, many rocket parts will need rebalancing), and I actually feel like an Eve ascent vehicle is now quite feasible. On the other hand.... some of its additions to realism are going to take some getting used to. Control surfaces can no longer be mounted "just anywhere". At supersonic speeds, they become less effective. The lift from wings is now modeled in such a different way that I'll have to relearn building spaceplanes. But all in all, it's a welcome change.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/KSP_19_Screens/screenshot139.png)

The second mod is the absolutely awesome subassembly plugin (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/42909-Subassembly-Saver-Loader-Save-chunks-of-your-rockets-as-templates-etc). It's not really a "mod" since it doesn't alter parts, but the VAB/SPH functionality it provides is... phenomenal. With it, you can build a rover in the SPH, then save it as a sub-assembly, so that you can put it on your lifter rocket in the VAB. You can save lifter stages, pusher stages, custom booster stages, escape pods, landers (unpiloted ones), anything. Anything that doesn't require crew to be in it at the start of the mission, you can save and load with this tool. It's very, very useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 04, 2013, 08:18:49 am
Both seem to be very much vanilla-worthy, without any people who would argue against. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 08:56:32 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 04, 2013, 08:18:49 am
Both seem to be very much vanilla-worthy, without any people who would argue against. :D
Second one yes.
First one: Eh, some people find realism to be boring/hard/makes it difficult to make silly shaped things. :P

That said, I still find FAR to be cool. I'm just afraid to actually use the damn thing, I'm already a terrible enough pilot as is.\

EDIT: I have, however, done some research, Sky. This should prove to you that SSTO is hard. :P

Quote from: Wikipedia page 'single-stage-to-orbit'
For pure rocket approaches Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation shows that dead weight will prevent reaching orbit unless the ratio of propellant to structural mass (called mass ratio) is very high — between about 10 and 25 (i.e. 24 parts propellant weight to 1 part structural weight; depending on propellant choice).[citation needed]

IIRC, the ratio of total mass to dry mass of stock KSP rocket tanks is 9 (excluding the tiny tanks, which I don't remember off the top of my head). And that number is of course larger than the ratio of propellant to structure. So yeah. Pure rocket SSTOs are somewhat out of reach with stock parts. Obviously, airbreathing ones are not. I'm just not that good at piloting. :/

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 04, 2013, 10:28:23 am
I don't think SSTOs are supposed to be made with pure rocket fuel.... XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 10:33:52 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 04, 2013, 10:28:23 am
I don't think SSTOs are supposed to be made with pure rocket fuel.... XD

Yes, there's a reason for that. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 10:40:23 am
Quote from: Twi on April 04, 2013, 08:56:32 am
IIRC, the ratio of total mass to dry mass of stock KSP rocket tanks is 9
8, actually. 16 mass units of fuel to 2 mass units of tank, scaled proportionally so that no one tank is more efficient than others.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 10:57:35 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 10:40:23 am
Quote from: Twi on April 04, 2013, 08:56:32 am
IIRC, the ratio of total mass to dry mass of stock KSP rocket tanks is 9
8, actually. 16 mass units of fuel to 2 mass units of tank, scaled proportionally so that no one tank is more efficient than others.

Total mass to dry mass, I said. Also I was laaaazy.

Silly Mirrsen, using numbers that weren't explicitly given to you. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 04, 2013, 12:48:28 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 03, 2013, 11:46:20 pm
SSTO's are hard :<
SSTOs aren't hard, you just have to make them a little silly.
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Ub7IZs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/a3Ub7IZ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/krtuo6ms.png) (http://imgur.com/krtuo6m.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 04, 2013, 12:55:43 pm
Aesthetically pleasing ones are. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 01:16:27 pm
If you want to look at a bit of silliness, here's me putting my Space Harrier through the Kerbin atmosphere at transsolar velocity. Five takes, for 50Km to 10Km perigee. This is with the FAR mod.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0rdq0b3224tgs8/KSP%202013-04-04%2019-00-16-741.avi

If nothing else, the flames and explosions are pretty. :P
(builtin Dropbox viewer shows terrible quality, download it for more comfortable viewing)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 02:00:24 pm
Speaking of mods, I tried out the SKLYON mod for this, seeing as I found that while searching KSP stuff.

I'm pretty damn sure the real thing doesn't have THAT much specific impulse. Not that I mind the silly atmospheric impulse, since that's kind of the idea. It's the silly impulse in vacuum that bothers me a bit.

Playing with it anyways, though. SSTOs are so much easier without flameouts :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 04, 2013, 02:57:07 pm
Remember folks, to deal with your high-altitude jet burnouts, always add a central jet engine, and add it LAST.

Jet engines all dip from the same common IntakeAir pool, and they each take the totality of what they need before the next placed engine gets any. So, placing a central jet last will have it burn out first, warning you about low air without throwing you into a spin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 03:16:37 pm
Or if you're feeling like being funny, mount all your jets on the center axis. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 04, 2013, 03:22:41 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 04, 2013, 03:16:37 pm
Or if you're feeling like being funny, mount all your jets on the center axis. :D
Or at least near it.

You may recall the 1680 m/s balloon-plane with two turbojets on a vertically-oriented bicoupler. Ah, those were the days. :P

Meanwhile, I'm totally going to make a space factory! Because who needs SSTOs when you can build giant things in space?

First I have to learn to dock, though. :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on April 04, 2013, 03:26:31 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 04, 2013, 02:57:07 pm
Remember folks, to deal with your high-altitude jet burnouts, always add a central jet engine, and add it LAST.

Jet engines all dip from the same common IntakeAir pool, and they each take the totality of what they need before the next placed engine gets any. So, placing a central jet last will have it burn out first, warning you about low air without throwing you into a spin.

Oh damn this explains so much, I will have to revisit some of my failed experiments.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 04, 2013, 09:21:00 pm
Quote from: ank on April 04, 2013, 04:52:14 am
Yup:
Kerbin TWR 2 = Mun TWR 12

That's why you are finding such low values for TWR Nao: you are forgetting dividing by 0.166
Actually its the opposite. It's because the numbers are so low i try to tell people they are flying inefficient landers :D. Although it's more about the lack of smaller but efficient engines.
I actually tried ascents with a 30ton craft and one LV-N resulting in 2m/s^ acceleration = 1,25 Mun TWR and it worked as was calculated in the charts.

We could have a challenge to do a stock tourist mission to Mun! Bring 8 hitchhiker storage containers to the Mun surface and back to Kerbin. (Mk2-lander cans would be an same mass alternative). The lowest starting mass wins, jet engines not allowed for kerbin ascent, control and visual mods would be ok (mechjeb etc.)
I'll try doing this mission during the weekend. (Maybe ill post this challenge later on KSP forums =3)

Cheers!

edit:
Quote from: Leonon on April 04, 2013, 12:48:28 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 03, 2013, 11:46:20 pm
SSTO's are hard :<
SSTOs aren't hard, you just have to make them a little silly.
(http://i.imgur.com/a3Ub7IZs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/a3Ub7IZ.png)(http://i.imgur.com/krtuo6ms.png) (http://imgur.com/krtuo6m.png)
This man is right (sorry for repost but if fits perfectly)(http://i.imgur.com/VvzeUwKs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VvzeUwK)(http://i.imgur.com/pBNOvnps.png) (http://imgur.com/pBNOvnp)An SSTO with more silly and less jets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 04, 2013, 11:40:55 pm
Because I suck at using the orbit map and that ball thing, what would be a good landmark for orienting myself with the cardinal directions during takeoff?  Also, would it be better to go with the rotation of the planet, or go against it? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 04, 2013, 11:47:37 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 04, 2013, 11:40:55 pm
Because I suck at using the orbit map and that ball thing, what would be a good landmark for orienting myself with the cardinal directions during takeoff?  Also, would it be better to go with the rotation of the planet, or go against it?
Well, if you don't rotate your craft when designing it, turn to the right when you're ascending. Going east like this essentially gives you free velocity when you make it into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 04, 2013, 11:55:53 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 04, 2013, 11:47:37 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 04, 2013, 11:40:55 pm
Because I suck at using the orbit map and that ball thing, what would be a good landmark for orienting myself with the cardinal directions during takeoff?  Also, would it be better to go with the rotation of the planet, or go against it?
Well, if you don't rotate your craft when designing it, turn to the right when you're ascending. Going east like this essentially gives you free velocity when you make it into orbit.
In other words, tilt directly away from the VAB, towards the water. That moves against Kerbin's rotation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 05, 2013, 12:46:42 am
Introducing my Hercules Tug, which I'm assembling in orbit as my interplanetary tug for moving things between orbits(not really interplanetary, but it WILL get to the mun and Minmus and back). Here it is with two out of 4 engine arms completed:

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1897/24apr050041.jpg)


Edit: I've also created a reusable skycrane for ferrying things from  Mun/Minmus orbit to the surface. Does this have enough thrust to say, get a full orange tank there, or do I need more engines?

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5020/25apr050056.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 05, 2013, 12:59:24 am
Jeb's face... My god, what is he doing?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 05, 2013, 02:58:57 am
.......Dunno lol.

Here's the completed tug+skycrane:

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6591/26apr050255.jpg)

Now to create practical kethane mining rigs+storage tanks to ferry to Mimus....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 05, 2013, 03:50:13 am
Why do you have an ion engine on the back of a liquid fuel tank?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 05, 2013, 04:03:02 am
@Nao
I am going out on a limb here, but i am pretty sure that adding more radial engines would make for at more efficient ascent, because only 20% of the fuel is going into gaining velocity, the rest is wasted on gravity drag.
If you post your craft, I'll try and fiddle around with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 05, 2013, 04:06:10 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 05, 2013, 03:50:13 am
Why do you have an ion engine on the back of a liquid fuel tank?


.....wha??? I don't have ANY ion engines in this design....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 05, 2013, 04:51:43 am
It would appear I'm being retarded. What is this at the back?

(http://i.imgur.com/kpz43R6.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 05, 2013, 04:53:35 am
That's a docking port.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 05, 2013, 05:00:50 am
Quote from: Japa on April 05, 2013, 04:53:35 am
That's a docking port.
I think he meant the blue thingy. If i remember right its part of that RCS autopilot/docking mod thingy and that blue ring would be the control unit for the mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 05, 2013, 05:17:06 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 05, 2013, 05:00:50 am
Quote from: Japa on April 05, 2013, 04:53:35 am
That's a docking port.
I think he meant the blue thingy. If i remember right its part of that RCS autopilot/docking mod thingy and that blue ring would be the control unit for the mod.

That is indeed what I meant, thanks :) Out of interest, what mod is that? I'm sick of failing at docking xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 05, 2013, 05:17:51 am
That's most certainly not an ion engine tough. It doesn't even look like an engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 05, 2013, 06:08:13 am
Hydrotech RCS autopilot, a GREAT mod for learning to dock and for docking maneuvers in general. And yes, that's part of the mod, it's a new part that has both a camera and target pre-installed, as well as some monopropellent!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 05, 2013, 07:32:15 am
Quote from: ank on April 05, 2013, 04:03:02 am
@Nao
I am going out on a limb here, but i am pretty sure that adding more radial engines would make for at more efficient ascent, because only 20% of the fuel is going into gaining velocity, the rest is wasted on gravity drag.
If you post your craft, I'll try and fiddle around with it.
This is only a small test done with hyperedit:

(http://i.imgur.com/6mARTM8s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/6mARTM8)Craft starting mass from mun 60,7t, TWR: 1,214 (less than 2m/s2 acceleration)
(http://i.imgur.com/jYbtyvfs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/jYbtyvf)735m/s Dv spent for orbit (~12x1km so its around the same as 5x5km circular if i had payed attention to where i was going)
(http://i.imgur.com/KFGCY3Yl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/KFGCY3Y)I almost had !!FUN!!.

I tried creating a other designs with sufficient Dv to reach orbit from Munnar surface that would carry the pod, orange tank and gray big tank (and some legs), but no other went below 61t.
For example 6x LV-N + 6x 1ton tank had 705m/s Dv, 3,17 mun TWR and weighted almost 70t
4x LV-909 + 4x 2ton tank + 2x 1ton tank had Dv of 664m/s (around 600-650 needed) and a mun TWR of 1,96 with launch mass of 62,75t.

The weight of engines in KSP IS a big deal, (especially since they are heavier than real life equivalents).
Also 1,2 TWR means 60deg attitude at launch, and after 1/5 of ascent time the attitude is around 45deg, so its rather 50% (cos60=0,5) fuel effieciency at launch and 70% at 45 deg.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 05, 2013, 11:01:09 am
Quick guide GO:
- Do the whole orbiting thing until you get to a few clicks away.
- Set the target vessel as target, your speed is now given relative to target vessel.
- Point towards the target vessel and burn some fuel
- Once you're going a decent speed (100-200m/s maybe?), aim your ship towards the retrograde indicator.
- Before you pass the target ship, burn retrograde until relative speed is close to 0.
- Return to the step in bold

You'll get progressively closer with each iteration. As you do, approach with less and less speed. Take your time. As you approach with less speed, try to keep your prograde indicator on the target indicator. As you get even closer, switch to RCS rather than main thrusters. This should make a lot easier to keep the indicators together.

As general tips for final docking, try to orient the docking port straight north or straight south. This doesn't change with orbit movement, so it tells you how you're supposed to approach the target ship. If it's pointing north, you should approach from the north pointing south. Also, go very very slow, keep changing camera views, etc. At first, try it with very, very little cargo on a compact ship. That makes it a lot easier, otherwise RCS will unbalance your ship, e.g. thrusting sideways also turns your ship.

I hope these help :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 05, 2013, 11:23:09 am
Actually, going at 100 m/s can wreck your orbit really easily. I think 20 m/s is more reasonable. O.o

I usually get a difference of around 20~30 m/s and watch the orbit map until I get closer, then retrograde, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 05, 2013, 11:31:45 am
Nao, aren't you comparing NERVA engines to normal engines? apples and oranges...
Or am i just confused?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 05, 2013, 06:48:51 pm
Quote from: ank on April 05, 2013, 11:31:45 am
Nao, aren't you comparing NERVA engines to normal engines? apples and oranges...
Or am i just confused?
NERVAs work like any other engine. The higher ISP doesn't mean anything other than the fuel is burned more efficiency (higher exhaust velocity). Aside from orbital operations (where TWR required is very small and burn length big), there is plenty of situations where other engines outperform NERVAs.
For example the booster which has atmosphere ISP of only 225s is better than aerospike engine 390 ISP for Eve ascent first stage (and for next stages the LV-T30 performs equally to the aerospike despite lower ISPs, and gets better at high altitudes)
Or more common example having 3000+m/s Dv last stage with mk1 capsule on top, LV-909 is performs better than NERVA even thou it requires more fuel, has less ISP and thrust. It all comes down to numbers, and LV-N are *very* heavy for their thrust.

In this particular situation, NERVA engines are best because of very low TWR requirement and long enough burn, but LV-909 come close behind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 05, 2013, 11:34:21 pm
Holy shit I'm orbiting the sun in a very similar orbit path to Kerbin. That might not seems very impressive because it probably isn't, but this is the first time I've established an orbit on anything. I was originally trying to just orbit Kerbin but then my apoapsis got way too large and I got picked up by the gravity of the sun. I originally thought the rocket too damn huge to accomplish anything, but it (sort of) worked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 05, 2013, 11:47:59 pm
When I want to get out of the Kerbin system, I slingshot off the mun. Saves on ridic amounts of delta-V, since you only need an apoapsis slightly past the mun to do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 06, 2013, 12:05:58 am
I just made an hybrid between a rocket and a spaceplane.... it use athmo engine, get to 13km then start flying like a plane with a steady 25 degreeish inclinaison, fly as fast as possiblt a,d 30 sec before engines goes dry dueto lack of intake air, it goes on a 80 degree then rocket engage. Im doing a hard mode fuel challenge where im only allowed to use liquid fuel if i mined it using kethane miner/converter combo.

Im currently building a space station and im trying to find the most efficient way to get something in orbit. Well i did it. takes me about 200 liquid fuel for my athmo engines and a small 500ish fuel/oxy combo to get in a 85km orbit. Sadly my game crashed before i completed the circularisation so its an approximate. Best launcher so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 06, 2013, 12:49:54 am
So I've been playing around with the newest MechJeb.

Oh my god this thing is great. I take off manually, with the throttle assists on (No sudden jet flameout? No overheats? Hell yeah!), manually put my nodes together, click "execute all" and I got Jebediah outside of the solar system with a slingshot off of Mun and a slingshot off Jool and Tylo. Oh yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 01:35:44 am
I HAVE ACHIEVED ORBIT AROUND KERBIN

YEEEEEEEAH!

This is ground control to Major Geoff!
You've really made the retrograaaade!
And the kermans want to know who shot you where!
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare! (He won't.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 06, 2013, 01:37:15 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 06, 2013, 12:49:54 am
So I've been playing around with the newest MechJeb.

Oh my god this thing is great. I take off manually, with the throttle assists on (No sudden jet flameout? No overheats? Hell yeah!), manually put my nodes together, click "execute all" and I got Jebediah outside of the solar system with a slingshot off of Mun and a slingshot off Jool and Tylo. Oh yeah.
Mechjeb can perform nodes for you now?  Sweet jesus have mercy...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on April 06, 2013, 01:59:07 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 01:35:44 am
I HAVE ACHIEVED ORBIT AROUND KERBIN

YEEEEEEEAH!

This is ground control to Major Geoff!
You've really made the retrograaaade!
And the kermans want to know who shot you where!
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare! (He won't.)
Nice work. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:03:18 am
Quote from: Spaghetti7 on April 06, 2013, 01:59:07 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 01:35:44 am
I HAVE ACHIEVED ORBIT AROUND KERBIN

YEEEEEEEAH!

This is ground control to Major Geoff!
You've really made the retrograaaade!
And the kermans want to know who shot you where!
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare! (He won't.)
Nice work. :)

And then he exploded on the surface of the moon because, although he was descending slowly, he was going 400 KM/h horizontally.

STILL.

FIRST KERMAN EXPLODED ON THE MOON.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:04:01 am
Now shoot for Minmus :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on April 06, 2013, 02:04:57 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:03:18 am
Quote from: Spaghetti7 on April 06, 2013, 01:59:07 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 01:35:44 am
I HAVE ACHIEVED ORBIT AROUND KERBIN

YEEEEEEEAH!

This is ground control to Major Geoff!
You've really made the retrograaaade!
And the kermans want to know who shot you where!
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare! (He won't.)
Nice work. :)

And then he exploded on the surface of the moon because, although he was descending slowly, he was going 400 KM/h horizontally.

STILL.

FIRST KERMAN EXPLODED ON THE MOON.
Wow. You sure are rattling through these milestones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:10:59 am
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:04:01 am
Now shoot for Minmus :)

Can't. Demo version and all, though I do plan to buy the full game at some point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:20:56 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:10:59 am
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:04:01 am
Now shoot for Minmus :)

Can't. Demo version and all, though I do plan to buy the full game at some point.
In that case...

SHOOT FOR THE SUN!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 07:00:58 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 06, 2013, 01:37:15 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 06, 2013, 12:49:54 am
So I've been playing around with the newest MechJeb.

Oh my god this thing is great. I take off manually, with the throttle assists on (No sudden jet flameout? No overheats? Hell yeah!), manually put my nodes together, click "execute all" and I got Jebediah outside of the solar system with a slingshot off of Mun and a slingshot off Jool and Tylo. Oh yeah.
Mechjeb can perform nodes for you now?  Sweet jesus have mercy...
Lookit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3unayPY0Bg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 06, 2013, 07:28:03 am
So I was thinking, are there planetary orbits hard coded? Like, if you got enough engines pointing in the right direction on Minmus, say, could you move it's orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mookzen on April 06, 2013, 08:07:16 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 06, 2013, 07:28:03 am
So I was thinking, are there planetary orbits hard coded? Like, if you got enough engines pointing in the right direction on Minmus, say, could you move it's orbit?

They are 'on rails' as the devs call it, so are your ships in high time compression. Unity isn't exactly designed to support this sort of thing, it's impressive they making it work as it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on April 06, 2013, 08:11:22 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 06, 2013, 01:37:15 am
Mechjeb can perform nodes for you now?  Sweet jesus have mercy...
I thought it can only down nodes, you still have to burn it yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 08:17:28 am
Quote from: lastverb on April 06, 2013, 08:11:22 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 06, 2013, 01:37:15 am
Mechjeb can perform nodes for you now?  Sweet jesus have mercy...
I thought it can only down nodes, you still have to burn it yourself.
Nope. It can put the nodes down and do the burn too. Its not the best at doing the burn but it gets very close most of the time. Watch the video I linked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on April 06, 2013, 08:59:19 am
Thanks, that's going to be very helpfull since im a complete newbie in ksp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 10:29:49 am
Quote from: lastverb on April 06, 2013, 08:59:19 am
Thanks, that's going to be very helpfull since im a complete newbie in ksp.
I could do a start to finish rendezvous and docking video using the new mechjeb if you like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2013, 11:04:17 am
Hey, something you probably want to check out:

The carrier w/o mods. look on you tube. if you get some dude talking about a giant space-carrier, then you might be there. even more so if they dont use mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 11:36:17 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 06, 2013, 11:04:17 am
Hey, something you probably want to check out:

The carrier w/o mods. look on you tube. if you get some dude talking about a giant space-carrier, then you might be there. even more so if they dont use mods.
Its been linked and discussed here before if you're talking about the one I think you are. Without you providing a link there's no way to know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 06, 2013, 01:05:09 pm
Decided to take a look at the Jool system, Laythe in particular, and saved quite a lot of fuel doing the aerobraking maneuver.

Spoiler: Coming for you, Laythe! (click to show/hide)

Also decided to pull up good ol' MechJeb for funsies. How ridiculous can I make spaceplanes?

Spoiler: The Stinger, Mach 7 at 29-30 km (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Condor Mk I, Mach 7 at 32 km (click to show/hide)

Did some driving on the Mun as well while I set up a Kethane refueler in orbit.

Spoiler: Night Driving (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 01:17:39 pm
And now I'm actually ORBITING the mun! It was looking scary there for a second due to fast-forward being too fast. The mun slingshotted me into a really weird orbit with Kerbin, but I managed to get caught by the mun's gravity again and burned backwards like it was going out of style. Now, should I keep it in orbit or send another rocket to try and land on it (again)?

Also, Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon is, unsurprisingly, a fitting album for this game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
That's not too hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 06, 2013, 02:22:30 pm
Quote from: da_nang on April 06, 2013, 01:05:09 pm
=

Also decided to pull up good ol' MechJeb for funsies. How ridiculous can I make spaceplanes?

Spoiler: The Stinger, Mach 7 at 29-30 km (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Condor Mk I, Mach 7 at 32 km (click to show/hide)

I'm amazed that those things don't completely flip over, mechjeb or otherwise.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
That's not too hard.
For a beginner? That kinda is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:33:14 pm
The problem isn't really getting to the mun, it's landing on it. I can never manage to slow down enough to avoid horrible, painful death.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 06, 2013, 03:02:23 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 06, 2013, 02:22:30 pm
Quote from: da_nang on April 06, 2013, 01:05:09 pm
=

Also decided to pull up good ol' MechJeb for funsies. How ridiculous can I make spaceplanes?

Spoiler: The Stinger, Mach 7 at 29-30 km (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Condor Mk I, Mach 7 at 32 km (click to show/hide)

I'm amazed that those things don't completely flip over, mechjeb or otherwise.
I basically flew them at the pitch angle for minimum positive vertical speed, 5º for the Stinger, 3º for the Condor. In the end I either run out of fuel or flame-out. Or occasionally flip over when Mechjeb overcompensates or I increase the pitch too much (+1º for the Condor, +2-3º for the Stinger).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 06, 2013, 03:02:58 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 06, 2013, 02:33:14 pm
The problem isn't really getting to the mun, it's landing on it. I can never manage to slow down enough to avoid horrible, painful death.

My problem isn't landing, I can land safely quite reliably. My problem is I never have enough fuel to move anywhere let alone get home :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 03:16:28 pm
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
That's not too hard.
For a beginner? That kinda is.
If you can get there and land, getting back isn't terribly hard tbh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 03:17:26 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 03:16:28 pm
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
That's not too hard.
For a beginner? That kinda is.
If you can get there and land, getting back isn't terribly hard tbh.
Unless you used too much fuel getting there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 06, 2013, 03:20:01 pm
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 03:17:26 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 03:16:28 pm
Quote from: Sirus on April 06, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 06, 2013, 01:51:04 pm
Bring a Kerbal to Mun and back to Kerbin again!
That's not too hard.
For a beginner? That kinda is.
If you can get there and land, getting back isn't terribly hard tbh.
Unless you used too much fuel getting there.
Rescue mission! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 06, 2013, 11:51:52 pm
Quote from: Mookzen on April 06, 2013, 08:07:16 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 06, 2013, 07:28:03 am
So I was thinking, are there planetary orbits hard coded? Like, if you got enough engines pointing in the right direction on Minmus, say, could you move it's orbit?

They are 'on rails' as the devs call it, so are your ships in high time compression. Unity isn't exactly designed to support this sort of thing, it's impressive they making it work as it is.
You don't know for sure until you try it!
Let's create a forum game and start bringing fuel and NERVA engines to Gilly (smallest moon). W will need only 15827 millions of tons to move it by 1m/s DeltaV. Thats only half a billion of orange fuel tanks, no problem for our dwarf industry :P.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 06, 2013, 11:55:18 pm
Scot Manly already tried that. He has a video explaining why it wont work(you'd need a cluster of engines and fuel tanks that are basically the size of the moon you're trying push, even if they weren't on rails and thus can't be affected at all!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 07, 2013, 04:13:59 am
Hmm any practical use for spacelanes besides s cool way of flying?
Arent rockets much better than spaceplanes for carrying cargo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on April 07, 2013, 04:16:31 am
Quote from: tryrar on April 06, 2013, 11:55:18 pm
even if they weren't on rails and thus can't be affected at all!
Huge docking base!
To test if that's even possible would be much easier by cheating Armok blessed engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2013, 04:39:10 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 07, 2013, 04:13:59 am
Hmm any practical use for spacelanes besides s cool way of flying?
Arent rockets much better than spaceplanes for carrying cargo?
Carrying cargo, yes. Saving on fuel and having to replace discarded parts that don't quite make it to the ground intact, no. Rockets are great for lifting stuff in bulk. SSTO spaceplanes, and even normal spaceplanes to a degree, are better for lifting stuff for cheap.

Which means that no, currently there isn't a practical use for spaceplanes besides being darn cool. Once Career mode rolls around though...

And besides, the only limitation right now is the godawful aerodynamics model stand-in. Once it gets improved, I'm sure people will be able to build quite nice heavy-lifting spaceplanes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 07, 2013, 05:38:16 am
Ion engines, how do you make them work effectively? I can't get enough delta-v from one to make any kind of impact on my probe's trajectory before it flies way past the window of opportunity :(

Also, the fact that they're in utility and not propulsion bugs me immensely. I can see the reasoning behind it but it still irks me xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 07, 2013, 05:48:50 am
I mostly just use them for leisurely orbital adjustment and deorbit burns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2013, 06:07:24 am
IRL ion engines are sometimes used for stationkeeping. I've been trying to find a way to make Ion RCS work (i.e. needing both power and xenon), but so far no luck.

And the reason they're under Utility is because... well, calling them "propulsion" is insulting the other engines. :P Ion engines are only good on very light probes that don't need a whole lot of acceleration to move, and the fact that most of the time you need excruciatingly long "burns" means that they're a supplementary propulsion source at best. Thus, "Utility".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 07, 2013, 06:11:49 am
At the risk of making myself look retarded, they're not meant for interplanetary transfers of ultralight probes, then?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2013, 06:16:36 am
Yes, they are. I said as much. But that's their niche, and they're nigh useless outside of it.

On the game-dev side, the Ion Engines are in Utility because batteries and solar panels are in Utility, clustered together with their powersource. Rover wheels are also a method of "propulsion", but likewise rather limited (to the ground). Therefore, they are all listed as "Utility", or supplementary items.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on April 07, 2013, 06:25:43 am
Generally Ion engines are currently used with a on and off set of thrusting as the orbit spirals out. Not as efficient use of thrust for a transfer, but due to the higher engine efficiency, its more mass efficient.
However, it requires lots of long periods of thrusting and a much longer transfer time.... something which isn't exactly easy to do with KSP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on April 07, 2013, 08:30:57 am
Is there any way to make Mechjeb and RemoteTech work with each other? If there is any of remote command modules, all of mechjeb's autopilots don't use throttle controls (ascent, nodes etc.), while rcs in docking, staging works fine.
There are a few posts about that in threads of both mods, but I haven't found a solution anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 07, 2013, 08:55:44 am
Quote from: Chattox on April 07, 2013, 05:38:16 am
Ion engines, how do you make them work effectively? I can't get enough delta-v from one to make any kind of impact on my probe's trajectory before it flies way past the window of opportunity :(

Also, the fact that they're in utility and not propulsion bugs me immensely. I can see the reasoning behind it but it still irks me xD
The best way to use ion engines is not in single adjustment burns but successive burns which slowly alter your trajectory. Burn a bit, orbit to the same position and burn some more. Slowly your orbit will change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 07, 2013, 09:22:33 am
Quote from: lastverb on April 07, 2013, 08:30:57 am
Is there any way to make Mechjeb and RemoteTech work with each other? If there is any of remote command modules, all of mechjeb's autopilots don't use throttle controls (ascent, nodes etc.), while rcs in docking, staging works fine.
There are a few posts about that in threads of both mods, but I haven't found a solution anywhere.
If you look some of the last page of remotech somone made a patch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 07, 2013, 09:34:30 pm
The start of my new orbital station:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Small docking nodes are for eventual escape pods. Medium nodes are for vessels. The open end of the habitat module (the one with the 3 inflatable bits) is a large docking node where the station will be expanded. There's another on the other side of the power module. The blocky bit in the middle is my 'lab module'. Really just another habitat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 07, 2013, 10:08:56 pm
So, using the new Mechjeb and my usual conniving of Asparagus + JATO + Nuclear interplanetary, I've managed some successful flights to Jool and orbited one of her moons.  I can quite easily get something like 6,500 Delta-V in orbit without laffing about with JATO yet!

With that in mind, does anyone particularly want to see me do something?  Get X in orbit, or land X on a distant planet?  Utilizing docking, I can build some massive ships in orbit and set them off to do incredibly inefficient things.

Oh, I've also got Damned Robotics, but have yet to use any of the mods, so strange ideas are acceptable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 07, 2013, 10:43:16 pm
How does one install mechjeb?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 07, 2013, 10:46:36 pm
Well simply ddrag drop the content of mechjeb archive straight into your KSP root folder. Should be set. Only thing you dont need is the source folder. Also if you check his thread you should see a how-to or go to the spaceport linjk from the thread ad click the isntallation tab,
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 07, 2013, 10:48:30 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 07, 2013, 10:43:16 pm
How does one install mechjeb?
Go towards the Spaceport, which you can link directly from in-game.  Find mechjeb, go to forum page.  Download Mechjeb 2.

Open the .zip, open your KSP folder.  Drop the contents of "Parts" into your KSP "Parts" and similar for Plugins and/or Resources or whatever else is provided that I've forgotten.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 08, 2013, 12:21:24 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 07, 2013, 09:34:30 pm
The start of my new orbital station:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Small docking nodes are for eventual escape pods. Medium nodes are for vessels. The open end of the habitat module (the one with the 3 inflatable bits) is a large docking node where the station will be expanded. There's another on the other side of the power module. The blocky bit in the middle is my 'lab module'. Really just another habitat.

You sir, have made me want to get back into this game again. And stop dicking around with ICBMs.
We should totally do a station again, but it would be much nicer if you didnt launch a whole god damn ring and scatter debris all over the palce i nthe first turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 08, 2013, 03:06:09 am
I only saw two people adding tothe station.
That would be me and (presumably) Forsaken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2013, 03:29:22 am
I'd be up for some community stationbuilding, as long as it's mostly stock. Like, KSPX at most. (and no mechjeb, but that's just wishful thinking nowadays.. -_-)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on April 08, 2013, 04:17:07 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2013, 03:29:22 am
(and no mechjeb, but that's just wishful thinking nowadays.. -_-)

I've actually never used Mechjeb at all. Is this why I'm having so much trouble getting anything done? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 08, 2013, 04:25:01 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 07, 2013, 10:08:56 pm
So, using the new Mechjeb and my usual conniving of Asparagus + JATO + Nuclear interplanetary, I've managed some successful flights to Jool and orbited one of her moons.  I can quite easily get something like 6,500 Delta-V in orbit without laffing about with JATO yet!

With that in mind, does anyone particularly want to see me do something?  Get X in orbit, or land X on a distant planet?  Utilizing docking, I can build some massive ships in orbit and set them off to do incredibly inefficient things.

Oh, I've also got Damned Robotics, but have yet to use any of the mods, so strange ideas are acceptable.

Hey Girlinhat, up for a community mining base on one of the outer airless moons? that seems to be a nice challenge....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 08, 2013, 04:51:35 am
Generally bases on non-atmospheric planets are easier to manage.
Also Mechjeb isnt cheating at all. Would you yell "CHEATING ASSHOLE" to the poor fucks who has to sit in a capsule for 2 days on their way to ISS just because they use autopilot?

I mostly use autopilot for mundane stuff like launching a sattelite or doing space station/munbase logistics. I use it as a guidance for approaching rendevouz targets and such.

Anything experimental or manned, i do it in hand with guidance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 08, 2013, 04:56:43 am
Pah, mechjeb is for casuals, I love flying around for a half hour, trying to "see" the planet and then go to ram-mode.

Also I finally figured out planes - there is nothing more wonderful then a extrem-long-wing plane flying like a bird before i accelerate to 4x and it rips apart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 08, 2013, 05:51:34 am
Having an autopilot is for those who want the optimal "astronaut in a cockpit" experience.
Simply punch in the commands, go in cockpit mode and relax.

Certainly not for casuals. A casual thing would be if you could just go up and float like some shitty space mmo like EVE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 05:54:04 am
I use MechJeb if I want the job to be well done. I can ascent, but I can not make a gravity turn at 10km and keep an inclination of <1deg at the same time. I can't circularize my orbit as good as MechJeb, and landing within 500m from my destination is something I most certainly am incapable of :P.

When I'm too lazy to make orbital maneuvers I use MechJeb for that too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 06:28:49 am
I'm okay with a stock+ community game. In fact I already have rules written up for the reality style game I had intended to run, just haven't had time. I'll finish that up and get started this afternoon.

Would you guys prefer a casual community space program with no limits or a reality type game where you have a budget and objectives and possibly political pressure/military requirements?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2013, 06:41:05 am
Having a budget would incentivize SSTOs, so I'm for that. ^_^ Objectives are nice too, though I'm not sure I'd like political pressure. The military could just be folded into "objectives" - they still just give out contracts for the space program to fulfill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 08, 2013, 06:50:31 am
I would find a cross-game-cross-player-game quite fun, like, let me just form my brain mess into words...


Player A needs a ammo refill for his Aurora spaceship. So he hires player C for a kerbal-delivery, which is fuled by player U's factoria/df game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 06:52:24 am
By military objectives/political pressure I mean sometimes random 'events' could pop up saying "You must deploy xx satellite into yy orbit immediately." or "Launch a weaponized spacecraft and destroy this target."

You will usually be rewarded for these, sometimes only on success. These would be random and rare, not the norm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 08, 2013, 06:53:38 am
I would def sub to that thread and see ppl's mind at work :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 06:55:31 am
Sounds fun. I will have a lot of spare time in a week so I i might actually participate this time :)

I would be fine with not using MechJeb if other don't like it. Well, the only problem is precise landing, but with a bit of practicing that should not be a problem. The other MechJeb stuff only really saves fuel and time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 06:58:01 am
Quote from: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 06:55:31 am
Sounds fun. I will have a lot of spare time in a week so I i might actually participate this time :)

I would be fine with not using MechJeb if other don't like it. Well, the only problem is precise landing, but with a bit of practicing that should not be a problem. The other MechJeb stuff only really saves fuel and time.
In fact some mechjeb operations waste tons of fuel, but I think I'll leave mechjeb in for people to use/not use as they see fit. Some people need it, others just enjoy using it to automate tedious things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2013, 06:58:59 am
I'd probably recommend only KSPX and Kerbal Engineer Redux as mods (plus things like the Subassembly Plugin). Mechjeb... well I'd loathe to install it, but I'm fine if people feel they can't participate otherwise. I mean, it doesn't do anything as long as you don't put any of its controlpods on the ship, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 07:02:16 am
Actually, unless some of the other mods you mentioned already, I'd be for installing MechJeb just to see delta V and FTW ratio each stage has. Just remove the part before launching the ship and you won't have any of the MechJeb functions. I'd also recommend Kethane and the Mapping Mod. Personally, I'd rather not have any extra recourse / engine parts. Vanilla has enough of those already.

In other words: do what you want. I'll probably still join :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2013, 07:02:55 am
I can just use Kerbal Engineer for that. ^_^

(also, TTW or TWR. Not FTW. :P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 07:08:32 am
Right now I'm thinking we'll start with limited stock and stock expansion parts, mechjeb 2(if you don't put a controller on it doesn't do anything), kerbal engineer, subassembly, part filter, maybe a few others.

By limited stock parts, I mean things like nervas and other parts will probably be unlocked via research.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 07:10:14 am
What about (stock) military ships? They would certainly made a grand long term goal. Especially if there's stuff for the 'fight'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 07:11:51 am
Quote from: Dutchling on April 08, 2013, 07:10:14 am
What about (stock) military ships? They would certainly made a grand long term goal. Especially if there's stuff for the 'fight'.
The rules I have set up allow you to pretty much do anything you like, though you may have to wait on things like building military ships until you have the budget to support it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 07:34:50 am
Another shot from my current project.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That will be my jool atmospheric mining station. Well really it will be on laythe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 08, 2013, 12:01:32 pm
Spoiler: This spaceplane exists now (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: It's watching me! (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The start of something that was assumed to be great (click to show/hide)

Anyways, I tried to build a refueling station orbiting Eve! With kethane and MechJeb2! If only it worked as planned...
The first mistake was to let MechJeb autowarp to SoI transition before checking the Eve orbits. So most of the stuff ended in the same inclination, ~180º, except for the Kethane tank. I obviously could try reverse the orbits but that was too darn expensive. Instead I tried fixing it with this crazy maneuver where I transferred to Gilly when it came the closest to Eve.
Spoiler: Oh hai, Gilly! (click to show/hide)
Warped until Gilly reached its apoapsis, shot my way out and reversed the orbit and pulled off an aerobrake maneuver in Eve's, glitched, upper atmosphere.
Spoiler: Trippy, Eve. (click to show/hide)
But it was all for naught for in the end there was not enough fuel left to properly circularize the orbit at the desired height.

The second mistake was to not give the Kethane extractor enough RCS fuel. It had already burned through half and was barely able to dock with the hub module to refuel.
However, the third mistake was to put the engines too close to the rocket body of the extractor, which ended up blocking any docking attempts.

At least the power module made it.
Spoiler: UNLIMITED POWAH! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 08, 2013, 12:56:56 pm
Quote from: tryrar on April 08, 2013, 04:25:01 am
Hey Girlinhat, up for a community mining base on one of the outer airless moons? that seems to be a nice challenge....
Mechjeb handles too many valuable things, like during ascent it handles pitch, roll, thrust, staging, and current altitude all at once.  I'm simply incapable of juggling that many things at once.  It can also do math that is simply beyond me, like phase angles.

Mechjeb is polite though.  You can run mechjeb fully and enjoy it.  You can also instal the module but leave the windows closed and fly manually, the module itself weighs some fractional amount so small the VAB shows it as an E-exponent.  In which case, it would be polite to put the module on any ship, even if you don't plan to use it, the next pilot could utilize it.

That said, if we've got mechjeb I'll land an ocean cruise liner on Duna.  So let's do this!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vgray on April 08, 2013, 01:59:15 pm
Isn't Duna the Mars equivalent? Hence the name?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on April 08, 2013, 02:00:08 pm
Quote from: Vgray on April 08, 2013, 01:59:15 pm
Isn't Duna the Mars equivalent? Hence the name?

That matters somehow? If she wants to land an ocean liner on a desert of sand, then she damn well should be able to!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 03:24:29 pm
Quote from: Vgray on April 08, 2013, 01:59:15 pm
Isn't Duna the Mars equivalent? Hence the name?
If there are seas on the moon there can be oceans on mars!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 03:46:32 pm
Started KSPR2.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124818.0

Still setting up the modpack but feel free to discuss and plan.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 08, 2013, 04:40:01 pm
Quote from: sluissa on April 08, 2013, 02:00:08 pm
If she wants to land an ocean liner on a desert of sand, then she damn well should be able to!
Space is freedom!
Gratuitous explosions are too!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 05:31:18 pm
Is kerbal space port down for anyone else?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 08, 2013, 05:43:04 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 05:31:18 pm
Is kerbal space port down for anyone else?

Yes. Which kinda sucks when you're looking for ship designs. Forum and file hub are down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 06:06:22 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 08, 2013, 05:43:04 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 05:31:18 pm
Is kerbal space port down for anyone else?

Yes. Which kinda sucks when you're looking for ship designs. Forum and file hub are down.
I was trying to get the rest of the mods to finish the modpack. Guess it will have to wait. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 08, 2013, 07:03:19 pm
I've got a handful I can share, if it's important.  Mechjeb, Mechjeb 2, Damned Robotics, and HOME.

Personally I think only MJ2 and DR are important, and DR is a kind of 'niche' part set since most rockets are fine without it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 08, 2013, 07:31:41 pm
I have most of them I think. Annoyed I can't get ionyear tho.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 08, 2013, 11:12:55 pm
It's annoying how often the spaceport goes down. If you're missing a mod, there's a decent chance I have it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 12:02:54 am
I REALLY want to land on the mun, and I made a lander I'm satisfied with. Problem is, I don't know how I'm going to get it up there. It's a lot heavier than the last one I made in the demo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Any suggestions? I know the rocket is a bit...unorthodox, but it got the job done surprisingly well in the demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 09, 2013, 12:07:00 am
Go up, gravity turn, get into orbit, get to orbit around the mun, land :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 12:07:39 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 09, 2013, 12:07:00 am
Go up, gravity turn, get into orbit, get to orbit around the mun, land :V

I mean to counteract the weight of the lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 09, 2013, 12:14:20 am
More fuel/More engines :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 09, 2013, 01:31:19 am
I might consider something for that thing.
Can we have Kethane? They are going to add resource extraction anyways :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 09, 2013, 06:32:13 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 09, 2013, 01:31:19 am
I might consider something for that thing.
Can we have Kethane? They are going to add resource extraction anyways :P
Alrighty
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 06:34:06 pm
I have just discovered the beauty of asparagus staging.

It's s-so efficient~~
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 09, 2013, 09:56:10 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 06:34:06 pm
I have just discovered the beauty of asparagus staging.

It's s-so efficient~~
ShoesandHats: Tsundere for rocketry.
Or at least dere :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 11:55:06 pm
Alright, my lander FINALLY is able to get where it needs to go fairly reliably, but I STILL CAN'T ACTUALLY LAND. BLARGLBLARGH. I keep exploding because I can never manage to slow down enough. Maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem on Minmus, but I wouldn't know because the goddamned mun keeps groping me with its grubby gravity fingers. And then, when I finally submit to its advances, it explodes me as soon as I try to land. I'm almost thinking it'd be easier to shoot for Eve, because at least then I could use parachutes.

Quote from: Twi on April 09, 2013, 09:56:10 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 06:34:06 pm
I have just discovered the beauty of asparagus staging.

It's s-so efficient~~
ShoesandHats: Tsundere for rocketry.

I might sig this...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 10, 2013, 12:04:09 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 11:55:06 pm
Alright, my lander FINALLY is able to get where it needs to go fairly reliably, but I STILL CAN'T ACTUALLY LAND. BLARGLBLARGH. I keep exploding because I can never manage to slow down enough. Maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem on Minmus, but I wouldn't know because the goddamned mun keeps groping me with its grubby gravity fingers. And then, when I finally submit to its advances, it explodes me as soon as I try to land. I'm almost thinking it'd be easier to shoot for Eve, because at least then I could use parachutes.


Eve also has Gilly, which you can land on with an unprotected Kerbal/Kerman, it's gravity is so light.

And you can probably escape from it with an unprotected kerbal, too. :P

If the Kerbol system were anthromorphized, Eve would be the mother figure (duh) and Gilly would be the token mini-moe:

"I g-guess you can l-land on me... if y-you w-want... n-no pressure..."

As opposed to Eve which is like YOU SHALL NOT ESCAPE MY EMBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 10, 2013, 12:26:15 am
Quote from: Twi on April 10, 2013, 12:04:09 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 09, 2013, 11:55:06 pm
Alright, my lander FINALLY is able to get where it needs to go fairly reliably, but I STILL CAN'T ACTUALLY LAND. BLARGLBLARGH. I keep exploding because I can never manage to slow down enough. Maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem on Minmus, but I wouldn't know because the goddamned mun keeps groping me with its grubby gravity fingers. And then, when I finally submit to its advances, it explodes me as soon as I try to land. I'm almost thinking it'd be easier to shoot for Eve, because at least then I could use parachutes.


Eve also has Gilly, which you can land on with an unprotected Kerbal/Kerman, it's gravity is so light.

And you can probably escape from it with an unprotected kerbal, too. :P
Quite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDLBTvpzf_s&t=8m51s)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shinotsa on April 10, 2013, 10:35:17 am
I have neglected this thread for far too long and cannot sit idly by any longer. Us at Bay12 have been greatly negligent in sending untrained, untested kerbonauts on missions throughout the solar system. After a great deal of testing I have found a statistically significant difference indicating that more experienced kerbals have survived more flights than the less experienced kerbals, verifying my hypothesis that some degree of exposure before-hand decreases the likelihood of catastrophic mission failure. Thus I present to you the Kerbal Party Bus

The Party Bus is the first stage of my Kerbal training program, and hopefully the lives that were lost during its testing will be made back through the lives it saves. The party bus is an advanced cargo-freight vehicle design similar to the 18-wheeled variety that we know of on our highways. The idea behind it is that Kerbonauts are loaded into the cargo-area and the doors are closed. The drivers are then to simulate the effects of multiple, repeated shifts in velocity vector. Three-dimensional movement will be simulated through complex maneuvers involving parked ramp-vehicles as well as the launch pad.

Now I would absolutely love to provide pictures of this valuable training tool, however it seems that the Space Program frowns upon the bulk training of kerbonauts, and thus would like the procedure to be repeated with fewer personnel until its safety is assured. (Read: the game crashed when I crammed 7 in the back). More testing will come later tonight.

If this training program is a success I may attempt a "vomit comet" style of aircraft for training in weightlessness, though I feel that a kerbal that is not properly secured may be quite a liability during takeoff. Feel free to share or create a training program of your own, I would love to see how others think that they could provide their precious kerbonauts with valuable experience before sending them on a sun-dive mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 10, 2013, 11:07:44 am
Weeeelll... I usually test my Kerbals by subjecting them to ultra-high temperature rocket exhaust. They seem to like it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 10, 2013, 11:30:58 am
Quote from: Shinotsa on April 10, 2013, 10:35:17 am
I have neglected this thread for far too long and cannot sit idly by any longer. Us at Bay12 have been greatly negligent in sending untrained, untested kerbonauts on missions throughout the solar system. After a great deal of testing I have found a statistically significant difference indicating that more experienced kerbals have survived more flights than the less experienced kerbals, verifying my hypothesis that some degree of exposure before-hand decreases the likelihood of catastrophic mission failure. Thus I present to you the Kerbal Party Bus

The Party Bus is the first stage of my Kerbal training program, and hopefully the lives that were lost during its testing will be made back through the lives it saves. The party bus is an advanced cargo-freight vehicle design similar to the 18-wheeled variety that we know of on our highways. The idea behind it is that Kerbonauts are loaded into the cargo-area and the doors are closed. The drivers are then to simulate the effects of multiple, repeated shifts in velocity vector. Three-dimensional movement will be simulated through complex maneuvers involving parked ramp-vehicles as well as the launch pad.

Now I would absolutely love to provide pictures of this valuable training tool, however it seems that the Space Program frowns upon the bulk training of kerbonauts, and thus would like the procedure to be repeated with fewer personnel until its safety is assured. (Read: the game crashed when I crammed 7 in the back). More testing will come later tonight.

If this training program is a success I may attempt a "vomit comet" style of aircraft for training in weightlessness, though I feel that a kerbal that is not properly secured may be quite a liability during takeoff. Feel free to share or create a training program of your own, I would love to see how others think that they could provide their precious kerbonauts with valuable experience before sending them on a sun-dive mission.

Remember: You only need 5 for a reliable sample size. ;)

But yeah. Need moar VAB pics and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 10, 2013, 02:19:41 pm
Oh?  I rarely see the same Kerbals twice, if ever.  How you you get them back?  Even when they successfully return via parachute they dont show up on the subsequent flights for me.

On the topic of kerbalnauts (I'm at work or I'd just test this) do you lose any rocket functionality if you EVA the guys?  Can you leave two (or even all three) standing on the pad, and still launch and fly your rocket?

Also, does adding that hitchhiker module give you extra kerbalnauts in mission, or allow you any other IVA activities?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 10, 2013, 02:23:38 pm
An empty capsule can't be controlled, unless you have a robotic control unit. Keep at least one kerbal in your ship if you want it to remain usable.

Hitchhiker modules do not "include" kerbalnauts. You can add more by transferring them from other vehicles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 10, 2013, 05:18:20 pm
Meanwhile: I am technically a sexy god of rocketless SSTOs! Technically :P

Meet the Firebug! It has intake abuse and is actually pretty good at planing in general. Takes off quickly, fairly maneuverable, fairly stable, etc.
((warning: this post contains 29 pictures))
Spoiler: Various takeoff pictures (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: It flies into the air like a chariot of the gods! ...or something (click to show/hide)
Spoiler:  and then it goes REALLY FAST (click to show/hide)
Much finicking was done in order to get thrust out the engines at low air levels. It's kinda tricky, but doable. The fact that this thing has the two engines basically as close to the axis as possible probably helps.
Spoiler:  Look dad I'm in spaaaaaaaaaaace (click to show/hide)
Suffice to say I did not expect to get into space.

Spoiler: Reentering from the first hop (click to show/hide)

And then I did it again, only this time was much better. It was even technically an SSTO! (well, an SSTO with the periaps grazing the ground, but that's beside the point)
Spoiler:  Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace (click to show/hide)
And then I did it a third time!
Spoiler:  This is getting a bit silly (click to show/hide)
Theeen I figured I may as well land the darn thing. I'm pretty sure I went around the world 1.8 times, after all.
Spoiler:  Victory and also awesomeness (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 07:41:44 pm
So, I kind of jokingly thought that I'd sooner land on Duna than on the Mun, and then I went ahead and decided to test that. As it turns out, interplanetary travel involves math and makes your head hurt. I ended up orbiting the sun with little hope of ever returning to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 10, 2013, 07:55:53 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 07:41:44 pm
So, I kind of jokingly thought that I'd sooner land on Duna than on the Mun, and then I went ahead and decided to test that. As it turns out, interplanetary travel involves math and makes your head hurt. I ended up orbiting the sun with little hope of ever returning to Kerbin.

*pats* Don't worry, it happens to the best of us.

Also there are many things that do math for you. Like the Phase Angle Calculator! And MechJeb! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Squanto on April 10, 2013, 08:25:52 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 10, 2013, 07:55:53 pm
Also there are many things that do math for you. Like the Phase Angle Calculator! And MechJeb! :P
I never fot mechjeb to properly do interplanetary transfers... it sucks because I have a ship that gets into stable orbit with over 6k dV but I never can get anywhere further than minimus without wasting waaaaaaay too much fuel because apparently the best way to get to duna from kerbin is to burn RETROGRADE!!!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 10, 2013, 08:50:44 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 07:41:44 pm
So, I kind of jokingly thought that I'd sooner land on Duna than on the Mun, and then I went ahead and decided to test that. As it turns out, interplanetary travel involves math and makes your head hurt. I ended up orbiting the sun with little hope of ever returning to Kerbin.

Well, sorta math. You can use geometry! A simple travel plan I use that is -accurate- is as follows:
If you are going to a higher orbit, wait until your target planet is tangent forward to you in your origin's orbit. (So, going to Duna from Kerbin, wait until Duna is roughly tangent and ahead of Kerbil's orbit.) Raise your apoapsis along your origin's prograde path. (Go in the direction Kerbin is headlng.) Once you leave the SOI of your origin, you can just keep on going until you have an encounter. (This is basically burning straight at the destination, in the prograde direction of your origin.)

To go to a lower orbit, you have to sort of reverse this. Wait until your origin is prograde tangent of your destination, then burn origin retrograde out of the SOI. And then just keep burning, making minor adjustments as you need.

Probably not the most efficent (Which is to say definitely not) but I find it quite easy and intuitive.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 08:52:46 pm
OKAY HOLY SHIT

FIRST KERBALS ON MINMUS

BILL AND BOB

FUCK YEEEEEEEES

I LOVE YOU MECHJEB.

Spoiler: CLICK HERE FOR AMAZING LANDER (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 10, 2013, 09:12:58 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 08:52:46 pm

I LOVE YOU MECHJEB.


Nuu, you did it wrong.

"I-I'm only u-using you bec-cause y-you're useful! I-it's not like I l-like you or a-anything!"

:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 10, 2013, 09:44:32 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 10, 2013, 07:55:53 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 10, 2013, 07:41:44 pm
So, I kind of jokingly thought that I'd sooner land on Duna than on the Mun, and then I went ahead and decided to test that. As it turns out, interplanetary travel involves math and makes your head hurt. I ended up orbiting the sun with little hope of ever returning to Kerbin.

*pats* Don't worry, it happens to the best of us.

Also there are many things that do math for you. Like the Phase Angle Calculator! And MechJeb! :P
Amusingly, you don't need any of those things if you're willing to overbuild a bit and accept some inefficiency. You don't need to calculate or use mechjeb. Just do what I do...

1. Get yourself into a parking orbit around kerbal. I usually do 500km so I can warp quickly if I need to.
1.5. Escape kerbal orbit, get into an orbit around the sun. (Easy!)
2. Place a maneuver node anywhere along your orbit.
3. Tweak the burn until your projected orbit reaches the orbit line for duna.
4. Grab the maneuver node and drag it around your orbit until you have an encounter.
5. Burn!
6. About 1/2 of the way, do another burn to slightly adjust your course if necessary to get a duna capture. If you're really pro you can do a close pass or two, or even sling around Ike or something, but you don't have to be fancy.

I'll do a manual no-math duna encounter video tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 10, 2013, 09:51:47 pm
Yeah, with a decent craft, it's possible to make stable orbit around a planet with enough fuel to make it back, without the need for orbital refueling post-launch, all without any autopilot. Just need to remember the simple orbital phrase and its implications "equal area in equal time."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shinotsa on April 10, 2013, 10:35:16 pm
Party bus update: F1 is the screenshot key, not printscreen. There goes an hour of testing and pictures.

Perhaps I'll post some tomorrow T_T
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 11, 2013, 12:34:30 am
And now there are Kerbals on the Mun! Awh yeah.

Spoiler: MORE AMAZING LANDER (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Squanto on April 11, 2013, 01:57:16 pm
Well, I finally got to duna, but I may have uhhhh, messed up the landing just a bit.  I wanted to use parachutes for the end so I could move around on my rover base, but I forgot to turn the landing engines off before ejecting that stage...
Spoiler: Flight images (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 11, 2013, 02:45:06 pm
Is it me or is KSP imploding on his own success? A week ago i had some trouble sometime to get on their forum, was laggy but now, these last 3 day im having more and more problem connecting to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 11, 2013, 02:54:13 pm
That's why I made my copy a Steam copy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 11, 2013, 02:56:06 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 11, 2013, 02:54:13 pm
That's why I made my copy a Steam copy.

How does that help with mods and craft files?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 11, 2013, 02:57:34 pm
Didn't have problems when downloading MJ. Don't bother with mods a lot anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 11, 2013, 05:52:02 pm
Okay, I think I could get to Duna now if I just waited eighteen years in real time. Seriously, why must orbiting around the sun be so slow?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 11, 2013, 06:03:16 pm
If you want to catch somethin g up in front of you, lower your orbit plane so your orbital velocity increase, then make a maneuver node and get your apoapse HIGHER than the target planet, once done simply move your maneuver node untill your see an influence capture.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2013, 01:36:23 am
one does not simply maneuver nodes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on April 12, 2013, 08:52:31 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2013, 01:36:23 am
one does not simply maneuver nodes

one does not maneuver nodes at all
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 12, 2013, 10:39:48 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2013, 01:36:23 am
one does not simply maneuver nodes
...I do. Even if I dont have mechjeb I can get pretty much anywhere by messing with nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 12, 2013, 10:47:30 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 12, 2013, 10:39:48 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2013, 01:36:23 am
one does not simply maneuver nodes
...I do. Even if I dont have mechjeb I can get pretty much anywhere by messing with nodes.
Manuver nodes are pretty darn useful, yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 12, 2013, 10:53:25 am
I can't do shit without nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 12, 2013, 04:40:08 pm
Things were pretty rough before nodes, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 12, 2013, 06:58:39 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 12, 2013, 04:40:08 pm
Things were pretty rough before nodes, yes.
Things were pretty rough before internet ( research wise, hours and hours at the local library ) Now, its easier, so you dont use it? why not use tools at your disposal? Dont you use calculator sometime? Bah enough of that XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 12, 2013, 10:55:17 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 12, 2013, 06:58:39 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 12, 2013, 04:40:08 pm
Things were pretty rough before nodes, yes.
Things were pretty rough before internet ( research wise, hours and hours at the local library ) Now, its easier, so you dont use it? why not use tools at your disposal? Dont you use calculator sometime? Bah enough of that XD
Huh? Nodes are a great thing. They make the game a lot better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 13, 2013, 12:32:03 am
Im for the nodes, but some purist says they shouldnt be in or something... I dont think i understand fully here, but thats what my french head understand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 13, 2013, 01:36:59 am
S'alright. I have a way with words that can even confound native english speakers. Nodes = good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: OREOSOME on April 13, 2013, 11:09:25 am
Kerbal warmachines have never been so amazing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 13, 2013, 11:18:35 am
Quote from: OREOSOME on April 13, 2013, 11:09:25 am
Kerbal warmachines have never been so amazing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY)

Old

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 13, 2013, 11:49:11 am
Quote from: OREOSOME on April 13, 2013, 11:09:25 am
Kerbal warmachines have never been so amazing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inkkLAfFIbY)

Also old and awesome, but...
 I see your two minutes and raise you one hour. With Touhou music! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMTgVOR-SRE)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 13, 2013, 03:26:46 pm
Interesting... I was plotting a maneuver to fully reverse the orbital plane (of a circular orbit) from 180º to 0º by raising the apoapsis, reverse the planes at the new apoapsis and finally lower the apoapsis to its original height and I wanted to find the minimum apoapsis where the maneuver would be more efficient than a straight retrograde burn on the original orbit. Turns out, in KSP any higher apoapsis seems to do. I also found the minimum amount of delta-v required for this maneuver to be roughly 41.4% of the delta-v for the simple retrograde burn. In other words, you save at most 58.6% delta-v doing this maneuver, the higher the better. (Or in KSP's case, aim for an apoapsis close to SoI.) Furthermore, with an apoapsis at least 8 times higher than the circular orbit, you'll save at least 50% delta-v.

Example, if you're orbiting Eve (Radius 0.7 Mm) at 1 Mm (1 Mm + 0.7 Mm = 1.7 Mm), you can save 50% delta-v with a "work" apoapsis at 12.9 Mm (1.7 Mm * 8 - 0.7 Mm).

Spoiler: Any higher apoapsis will do (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Max efficiency is 58.6 % (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 50% efficiency at h = 8R (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mookzen on April 13, 2013, 03:29:47 pm
I opened the spoilers expecting pretty pictures but alas, *gasp* there's only math...  :-[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 13, 2013, 03:43:07 pm
Quote from: Mookzen on April 13, 2013, 03:29:47 pm
I opened the spoilers expecting pretty pictures but alas, *gasp* there's only math...  :-[
I suppose you want some empirical evidence? :P

Spoiler: Simple retrograde (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Maneuver (click to show/hide)

Total DV for maneuver is 881.96 m/s compared to the simple 1748.8 m/s. The apoapsis is a bit lower than "50%-efficiency" height (50% was outside SoI at the time). Actual efficiency was at 49.7%.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mookzen on April 13, 2013, 03:45:13 pm
Oh yes, that's the stuff, mighty sexy orbits you got there mate !
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2013, 04:00:59 pm
Hm. Would lowering the periapsis prior to raising the apoapsis result in any delta-v savings? I mean, due to the oberth effect and whatnot? I.e. you want to reverse a 2000km orbit. Lower to 70km, burn at new periapsis till maximum apoapsis, retro burn at new apoapsis till orbit reversed and periapsis=2000km, circularize at new periapsis. I'm not quite familiar enough with the intricacies of orbital mechanics, but the experimenter in me demands to know. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 13, 2013, 05:18:25 pm
It might be possible if you aim for a periapsis at a moon, but not the planet itself, as it appears to only be in effect for escape trajectories according to Scott Manley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEra14FVD4o) (Mentioned near the end).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on April 13, 2013, 05:29:45 pm
Quote from: da_nang on April 13, 2013, 03:26:46 pm
Interesting... I was plotting a maneuver to fully reverse the orbital plane (of a circular orbit) from 180º to 0º by raising the apoapsis, reverse the planes at the new apoapsis and finally lower the apoapsis to its original height and I wanted to find the minimum apoapsis where the maneuver would be more efficient than a straight retrograde burn on the original orbit. Turns out, in KSP any higher apoapsis seems to do. I also found the minimum amount of delta-v required for this maneuver to be roughly 41.4% of the delta-v for the simple retrograde burn. In other words, you save at most 58.6% delta-v doing this maneuver, the higher the better. (Or in KSP's case, aim for an apoapsis close to SoI.) Furthermore, with an apoapsis at least 8 times higher than the circular orbit, you'll save at least 50% delta-v.

Example, if you're orbiting Eve (Radius 0.7 Mm) at 1 Mm (1 Mm + 0.7 Mm = 1.7 Mm), you can save 50% delta-v with a "work" apoapsis at 12.9 Mm (1.7 Mm * 8 - 0.7 Mm).

Spoiler: Any higher apoapsis will do (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Max efficiency is 58.6 % (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 50% efficiency at h = 8R (click to show/hide)
Good god.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 13, 2013, 10:14:06 pm
I LANDED ON IKE. CLOSE ENOUGH.

Spoiler: THE CHRONICLES OF AMAZING LANDER: CHAPTER 3 (click to show/hide)

I didn't have enough fuel to land on Duna without exploding horribly. Still! It's something!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 14, 2013, 12:48:31 pm
AND NOW ON EVE. LOOK OUT, KERBOL SYSTEM, HERE I COME.

Spoiler: AND NOW, ON THIS KERBALICAN LIFE, A LANDER IN 4 PARTS: ACT 1:MINMUS, ACT 2: THE MUN, ACT 3: IKE, AND ACT 4: EVE (click to show/hide)

Thank god for parachutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 14, 2013, 03:08:51 pm
I INVADED MOHO. WITH PROBES. ALL YOUR KETHANE ARE BELONGS TO US.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 14, 2013, 03:19:32 pm
Youknow, you have all these people saying that these videos are good and use nice mods, i say now:
Have a channel where KSP has space battles WITH NO MODS. It can be a bit... odd sometimes, but hey, NO MODS.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MaceyDean
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 14, 2013, 04:07:25 pm
i think that's the 4rth time that's been posted
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 14, 2013, 04:25:34 pm
It's worth every single mention.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 14, 2013, 04:55:59 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 14, 2013, 04:10:15 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 14, 2013, 03:19:32 pm
Youknow, you have all these people saying that these videos are good and use nice mods, i say now:
Have a channel where KSP has space battles WITH NO MODS. It can be a bit... odd sometimes, but hey, NO MODS.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MaceyDean
Mentioned... twice, AFAIK, I posted it first, then a couple of pages after, someone else posted it again.
actually, it was posted twice, but it was mentioned a third and a fourth time, by... that's right, the guy who brought it up a fifth time.

Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 01, 2013, 12:43:09 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 01, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
someone already has carrier battles. with no mods used. I am not lying.
I know, there is the links a couple pages ago. This is AWESOME.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2013, 11:36:17 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 06, 2013, 11:04:17 am
Hey, something you probably want to check out:

The carrier w/o mods. look on you tube. if you get some dude talking about a giant space-carrier, then you might be there. even more so if they dont use mods.
Its been linked and discussed here before if you're talking about the one I think you are. Without you providing a link there's no way to know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 14, 2013, 05:10:54 pm
wow. i suck. i really cant read shit...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 14, 2013, 05:11:41 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 14, 2013, 04:25:34 pm
It's worth every single mention.
Its really not. I mean it was interesting for one or two views but the same guy has posted it every time and tbh its getting damn annoying. Stop spamming our thread with your favorite video.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 14, 2013, 05:39:09 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 14, 2013, 05:11:41 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 14, 2013, 04:25:34 pm
It's worth every single mention.
Its really not. I mean it was interesting for one or two views but the same guy has posted it every time and tbh its getting damn annoying. Stop spamming our thread with your favorite video.
Can i post video i made? pritty please? On a more serious note, if you want my point of view, posting it once every 2 page in my book is acceptable, but for the majority of our community its just past the spam line in general, unless its something REALLY worth it, wich this video is near that thresold.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 14, 2013, 10:59:53 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 14, 2013, 05:11:41 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 14, 2013, 04:25:34 pm
It's worth every single mention.
Its really not. I mean it was interesting for one or two views but the same guy has posted it every time and tbh its getting damn annoying. Stop spamming our thread with your favorite video.
Mmm. Didn't realize it was the same guy >.<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 16, 2013, 02:15:55 pm
Meanwhile, remember waaay back when I built  that hybrid airship and took it up to what I considered absurd speeds? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4077150;topicseen#msg4077150)

Well, that was before I got used to actually throttling back jet engines. And so I did it again just now, with... well, very different results, to the tune of about 400 m/s faster and around 20,000 meters higher at maximum. Also intake abuse, though not nearly as much as that on the Firebug. Behold, the robotic Miriam being awesome and looking awesome:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note: I had an idea wherein I would launch the mechjeb cockpit off at the apex of its flight (45,000 m or so, as it turned out) but that did not end up being a thing that happened. Oh well. I got amazing pictures, so hey.

Other Note: The Mechjeb pod's 'eye' effects are pretty bitchin'. Just saying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 16, 2013, 08:02:33 pm
And the ting is thats its not my favorite...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on April 16, 2013, 11:18:34 pm
I've finally figured out docking without mechjeb. And now that I have done it, I plan on never doing it without mechjeb again. So I've been wasting all my time on getting ginormous space station parts into orbit as well as refueling stations across the solar system. Now I'm abusing space planes.

Also, as a side note, one of my first few satellites has just cleared the edge of the Solar System.

Spoiler: Picture of the KSP Glory Mk 1 as it approached the sun for gravity assisted sling (It reached over 20,000 m/s), we salute you brave pioneer. Soon faster probes will follow in your footsteps (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 16, 2013, 11:59:40 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 16, 2013, 02:15:55 pm
Meanwhile, remember waaay back when I built  that hybrid airship and took it up to what I considered absurd speeds? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4077150;topicseen#msg4077150)

Well, that was before I got used to actually throttling back jet engines. And so I did it again just now, with... well, very different results, to the tune of about 400 m/s faster and around 20,000 meters higher at maximum. Also intake abuse, though not nearly as much as that on the Firebug. Behold, the robotic Miriam being awesome and looking awesome:
Cool, you should post that on Hooligan's thread (well, once KSP's forums are back up). He'd get a kick out of it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 17, 2013, 12:04:42 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 16, 2013, 11:59:40 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 16, 2013, 02:15:55 pm
Meanwhile, remember waaay back when I built  that hybrid airship and took it up to what I considered absurd speeds? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4077150;topicseen#msg4077150)

Well, that was before I got used to actually throttling back jet engines. And so I did it again just now, with... well, very different results, to the tune of about 400 m/s faster and around 20,000 meters higher at maximum. Also intake abuse, though not nearly as much as that on the Firebug. Behold, the robotic Miriam being awesome and looking awesome:
Cool, you should post that on Hooligan's thread (well, once KSP's forums are back up). He'd get a kick out of it!
That reminds me, I swear I had a KSP forum account... :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 17, 2013, 05:10:46 am
Quote from: KaelGotDwarves on April 16, 2013, 11:18:34 pm
I've finally figured out docking without mechjeb. And now that I have done it, I plan on never doing it without mechjeb again. So I've been wasting all my time on getting ginormous space station parts into orbit as well as refueling stations across the solar system. Now I'm abusing space planes.

Also, as a side note, one of my first few satellites has just cleared the edge of the Solar System.

Spoiler: Picture of the KSP Glory Mk 1 as it approached the sun for gravity assisted sling (It reached over 20,000 m/s), we salute you brave pioneer. Soon faster probes will follow in your footsteps (click to show/hide)

You can't gravitational slingshot on the sun, the object you are slingshotting around needs to be in orbit.( I know technically the sun is in a tiny orbit dominated by Jupiter, so a tiny slingshot should be possible, but negligible)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on April 17, 2013, 07:39:06 am
Quote from: ank on April 17, 2013, 05:10:46 am
You can't gravitational slingshot on the sun, the object you are slingshotting around needs to be in orbit.( I know technically the sun is in a tiny orbit dominated by Jupiter, so a tiny slingshot should be possible, but negligible)

It went past Duna and was flung close to Jool. Poor wording on my part, but Kerbol's sun pulled me into the correct path.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 18, 2013, 08:00:38 pm
AND NOW I'M ON DUNA

Spoiler: Martian Sunrise (click to show/hide)

Finally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on April 22, 2013, 02:30:41 am
Are the forums back up yet?
There was a news article on the site saying that they were back up last Friday, but nothing seems to have changed forums wise
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 02:36:46 am
Someday I'll have to try this mechjeb thing I keep hearing of.
My experience with mechjeb autopilot has been rather poor. It fails at landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 04:02:43 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 02:36:46 am
Someday I'll have to try this mechjeb thing I keep hearing of.
My experience with mechjeb autopilot has been rather poor. It fails at landing.
If it fails at landing it must be because you have a too poor TWR during suicidal burn ( last full thrust burn before touchdown ). Myself never had any problem for rocket landing, as for plane landing well i always do them manualy, never tried auto-landing with planes.

Also when you do a rocket landing you must make sure you start from a high enough orbit or well... wont work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 22, 2013, 04:57:30 am
Landing is the thing it does best o_O, assuming you have enough thrust and fuel of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on April 22, 2013, 05:03:10 am
Recently I have had trouble building planes. No matter what i do, they refuse to take off without crashing in violent explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 06:07:22 am
Your first plane should have the center of lift a LITTLE bit behind the center of mass and make sure you even out the fuel tanks as they deplete the center of mass will move so act accordingly, but most of the time having center of lift behind the center of mass is the best way to go, always dont get lazy on lift power you need LOTS of them to be stable and also these little flap thingy? place as many of them as possible, at least thats how i do it and serves me well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 22, 2013, 06:27:10 am
And remember to spacetape. It's a plane, not a bird. Unless you want it to be a bird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 22, 2013, 06:29:06 am
My first working plane was before they showed center of mass and lift. Interestingly, I couldn't re-create it using them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 22, 2013, 08:07:52 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 06:07:22 am
Your first plane should have the center of lift a LITTLE bit behind the center of mass and make sure you even out the fuel tanks as they deplete the center of mass will move so act accordingly, but most of the time having center of lift behind the center of mass is the best way to go, always dont get lazy on lift power you need LOTS of them to be stable and also these little flap thingy? place as many of them as possible, at least thats how i do it and serves me well.

Flaps also exploit the aerodynamic system, so there's that. :P

This also brings me to a question I've had: Why is it good to have the center of lift behind the center of mass, anyways? I mean, I've seen that it seems to really help with takeoff, at least. But I really dunno why.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 08:17:57 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 04:02:43 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 02:36:46 am
Someday I'll have to try this mechjeb thing I keep hearing of.
My experience with mechjeb autopilot has been rather poor. It fails at landing.
If it fails at landing it must be because you have a too poor TWR during suicidal burn ( last full thrust burn before touchdown ). Myself never had any problem for rocket landing, as for plane landing well i always do them manualy, never tried auto-landing with planes.

Also when you do a rocket landing you must make sure you start from a high enough orbit or well... wont work.
I had four radial tanks full of fuel.

Mechjeb didn't even engage the engines, preferring to maneuver into landing position but not actually doing anything. I tried three times then just landed manually, on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 22, 2013, 08:43:43 am
Quote from: Twi on April 22, 2013, 08:07:52 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 06:07:22 am
Your first plane should have the center of lift a LITTLE bit behind the center of mass and make sure you even out the fuel tanks as they deplete the center of mass will move so act accordingly, but most of the time having center of lift behind the center of mass is the best way to go, always dont get lazy on lift power you need LOTS of them to be stable and also these little flap thingy? place as many of them as possible, at least thats how i do it and serves me well.

Flaps also exploit the aerodynamic system, so there's that. :P

This also brings me to a question I've had: Why is it good to have the center of lift behind the center of mass, anyways? I mean, I've seen that it seems to really help with takeoff, at least. But I really dunno why.
Load up a basic spaceplane, turn on CoM, CoL and CoT and rotate its pitch. Note the resultant torque direction (including drag) and vary it for various amounts of torque.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 22, 2013, 04:09:17 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 08:17:57 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 04:02:43 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 02:36:46 am
Someday I'll have to try this mechjeb thing I keep hearing of.
My experience with mechjeb autopilot has been rather poor. It fails at landing.
If it fails at landing it must be because you have a too poor TWR during suicidal burn ( last full thrust burn before touchdown ). Myself never had any problem for rocket landing, as for plane landing well i always do them manualy, never tried auto-landing with planes.

Also when you do a rocket landing you must make sure you start from a high enough orbit or well... wont work.
I had four radial tanks full of fuel.

Mechjeb didn't even engage the engines, preferring to maneuver into landing position but not actually doing anything. I tried three times then just landed manually, on the Mun.
Thats... odd. Did you have electricity? I believe it does require electricity to function.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 22, 2013, 07:58:58 pm
it requires the power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 22, 2013, 09:43:19 pm
Well, I got caught by the gravity of Jool. Now, that in it of itself might not seem very big, but keep in mind that this rocket was originally designed to get to Duna. I didn't establish an orbit around Jool, but I still got caught by it. The fact that this rocket can get that far impresses me. Keep in mind, this thing has a heavy-ass lander sitting on top of it the whole time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 22, 2013, 10:41:48 pm
I recently used a rocket intended for the mun to get out of the solar system :D

(with some help from tylo, mun and jool)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 22, 2013, 11:10:34 pm
Yay! I finally landed on the Mun! Thanks, Mech Jeb!

Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 08:17:57 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 22, 2013, 04:02:43 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on April 22, 2013, 02:36:46 am
Someday I'll have to try this mechjeb thing I keep hearing of.
My experience with mechjeb autopilot has been rather poor. It fails at landing.
If it fails at landing it must be because you have a too poor TWR during suicidal burn ( last full thrust burn before touchdown ). Myself never had any problem for rocket landing, as for plane landing well i always do them manualy, never tried auto-landing with planes.

Also when you do a rocket landing you must make sure you start from a high enough orbit or well... wont work.
I had four radial tanks full of fuel.

Mechjeb didn't even engage the engines, preferring to maneuver into landing position but not actually doing anything. I tried three times then just landed manually, on the Mun.

It's important to select a target on the surface for landing, I think. At least, Mech Jeb didn't seem to want to do much about the unoptimal horizontal speed I was going until I did that. Heck, Mech Jeb even handled having to eject a set of engines during braking pretty well. I'm pretty sure I would have crashed and burned even if conditions were ideal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 23, 2013, 02:28:54 am
Today I learned that rcm thrusters can overheat and explode. TMYK...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 23, 2013, 02:37:08 am
Quote from: ThtblovesDF on April 23, 2013, 02:28:54 am
Today I learned that rcm thrusters can overheat and explode. TMYK...
Never saw RCS truster blow up on me o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 23, 2013, 04:13:03 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 23, 2013, 02:37:08 am
Quote from: ThtblovesDF on April 23, 2013, 02:28:54 am
Today I learned that rcm thrusters can overheat and explode. TMYK...
Never saw RCS truster blow up on me o.O
Fun fact: Everything in Kerbal Space Program, including structural components and wings, can overheat and explode.

Heat Tolerance stat, nuff said. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on April 23, 2013, 05:01:24 pm
....what the hell were you doing that caused the RCS block to overheat?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 23, 2013, 05:16:26 pm
Probably mounting it to the bottom of a mainsail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 23, 2013, 07:44:54 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 23, 2013, 05:16:26 pm
Probably mounting it to the bottom of a mainsail.
While I feel ashamed to say this as a Bay12er: WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS HOLY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!?




:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 23, 2013, 08:00:34 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 23, 2013, 07:44:54 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on April 23, 2013, 05:16:26 pm
Probably mounting it to the bottom of a mainsail.
While I feel ashamed to say this as a Bay12er: WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS HOLY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!?




:P
Maybe it didn't have enough thrust vectoring?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 23, 2013, 11:03:04 pm
I downloaded the Lazors mod and made a hovercraft that could get up to 5000m high. Then I stuck a mainsail on the back of it.

So many hilarious explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 23, 2013, 11:35:32 pm
Well, this time I actually got my lander into orbit around Jool.

Spoiler: AMAZING LANDER PART SOMETHING: THE RE-LANDERING (click to show/hide)

Don't have enough fuel to actually land on anything, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 24, 2013, 10:30:50 am
Well KSP forums finally came up (but I had to clear my cache, oops). If you haven't seen it yet check out, check out Bac 9 aerospace (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25241-0-19-1-B9-Aerospace-Pack-R2-New-pods-IVAs-fuselage-systems-structural-parts) for some amazing additions to the pack. Absolutely amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on April 24, 2013, 05:05:45 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 24, 2013, 10:30:50 am
Well KSP forums finally came up (but I had to clear my cache, oops). If you haven't seen it yet check out, check out Bac 9 aerospace (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25241-0-19-1-B9-Aerospace-Pack-R2-New-pods-IVAs-fuselage-systems-structural-parts) for some amazing additions to the pack. Absolutely amazing stuff.

Yeah, I tried using that with Ferram, and it literally broke my game. Planes flipped over instantly, Rockets couldn't turn without flipping over a few times, and the wings ripped my plane apart instantly. . .

Edit: Ok, that was a bit harsh, I'm guessing that it was one of the metric fuck-ton of mods I installed that caused this. Not this one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 25, 2013, 12:13:03 am
B9 Aerospace is freaking amazing, posting some of the planes i made with it later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 25, 2013, 02:57:51 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 25, 2013, 12:13:03 am
B9 Aerospace is freaking amazing, posting some of the planes i made with it later.

I just downloaded it.

*Twi cancels life: TOO MUCH AWESOMENESS POTENTIAL.*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 25, 2013, 04:11:47 am
Quote from: Twi on April 25, 2013, 02:57:51 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 25, 2013, 12:13:03 am
B9 Aerospace is freaking amazing, posting some of the planes i made with it later.

I just downloaded it.

*Twi cancels life: TOO MUCH AWESOMENESS POTENTIAL.*
That.... the design wow... just frigging wow....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mookzen on April 25, 2013, 07:31:57 am
Shame the new aerodynamics aren't in yet, can we get a screenie of them planes though ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 25, 2013, 08:41:01 am
(http://i.imgur.com/AMWaqEV.jpg)

Looks like some sort of supersonic bomber, work in progress though.

Final version will be able to deploy a rather large bomb/launch a rocket into SPESS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 25, 2013, 08:44:28 am
FYI, the screenshot key is F1.

I didn't know this for the longest time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 25, 2013, 09:19:18 am
Known that all the time but i had greenshot open so i just decided to go and use it, it automatically uploads to imgur :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 25, 2013, 02:35:03 pm
Screenies from latest sessions.

Spoiler: Out with the old, in with the new (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Can't get enough of it! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hunting for Kethane on Pol (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Greetings from Pol! Wish you were here. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2013, 04:36:25 pm
Super looking forward to the next version. Space mining will be so much fun, and even mining Kerbin will be an interesting experiment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 04:38:27 pm
I wonder if it will let us build more things... like railways so we can set up new launch pads and ships to collect things that splashdown...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 04:50:24 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 04:38:27 pm
I wonder if it will let us build more things... like railways so we can set up new launch pads and ships to collect things that splashdown...
What I want is the ability to launch rail launched rockets.  Kind of like the V1/V2/VWhatever rockets the Germans had. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 25, 2013, 04:57:25 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 04:50:24 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 04:38:27 pm
I wonder if it will let us build more things... like railways so we can set up new launch pads and ships to collect things that splashdown...
What I want is the ability to launch rail launched rockets.  Kind of like the V1/V2/VWhatever rockets the Germans had.

The Germans had a lot of rockets, but none of them really ran on railroads. The V1 required a fixed base for it's ramp and booster and such (basically, the V1 runs on that notorious pulsejets and pulsejets tend to not work so amazingly at low speeds), while the V2 could be fired pretty much anywhere you could stand it up vertically.

That said, if you want a mobile launch pad, weeel what do you think the HUMONGOUS WHEELS are for? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 05:03:51 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 25, 2013, 04:57:25 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 04:50:24 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 04:38:27 pm
I wonder if it will let us build more things... like railways so we can set up new launch pads and ships to collect things that splashdown...
What I want is the ability to launch rail launched rockets.  Kind of like the V1/V2/VWhatever rockets the Germans had.

The Germans had a lot of rockets, but none of them really ran on railroads. The V1 required a fixed base for it's ramp and booster and such (basically, the V1 runs on that notorious pulsejets and pulsejets tend to not work so amazingly at low speeds), while the V2 could be fired pretty much anywhere you could stand it up vertically.

That said, if you want a mobile launch pad, weeel what do you think the HUMONGOUS WHEELS are for? :P
What I meant was that I could launch it off a rail, but now that I think about it I can probally use the spaceplane hanger to do so.  Strap some wheels to a solid fuel booster... strap some more boosters.....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 05:04:54 pm
The A4 (thats the V2's name) was built to be carried by rail.
as for the massive wheels... they like bending...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 25, 2013, 05:26:11 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 25, 2013, 05:04:54 pm
The A4 (thats the V2's name) was built to be carried by rail.
as for the massive wheels... they like bending...
You can strut them, believe it or not. While you can't place a strut startpoint on them, you can place an endpoint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 25, 2013, 06:11:11 pm
Meanwhile, I might have promised B9 stuff. I have a project I'm working on, but first, have some experiments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Immelmans are fun.
And a teaser: Multi-track drifting! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PUB4u2s2A)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 06:18:41 pm
So, I did some testing with building a hideusly inefficient aircraft, and strapping it to a bunch of solid fuel rockets with wheels.
Can you spot the problem?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Join the space program, they said.  Fly state of the art planes, they said."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I actually managed to get it into the air, eventually.  Unfortunately only one side had wings, so I didn't get far.  My biggest problem was boosters falling off, and not being able to control my direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 25, 2013, 06:20:05 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 06:18:41 pm
So, I did some testing with building a hideusly inefficient aircraft, and strapping it to a bunch of solid fuel rockets with wheels.
Can you spot the problem?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Join the space program, they said.  Fly state of the art planes, they said."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I actually managed to get it into the air, eventually.  Unfortunately only one side had wings, so I didn't get far.  My biggest problem was boosters falling off, and not being able to control my direction.

Hehehe, that is definitely not the right kind of wheels. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 06:22:25 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 25, 2013, 06:20:05 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 06:18:41 pm
So, I did some testing with building a hideusly inefficient aircraft, and strapping it to a bunch of solid fuel rockets with wheels.
Can you spot the problem?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Join the space program, they said.  Fly state of the art planes, they said."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I actually managed to get it into the air, eventually.  Unfortunately only one side had wings, so I didn't get far.  My biggest problem was boosters falling off, and not being able to control my direction.

Hehehe, that is definitely not the right kind of wheels. :P
Other wheels didn't give me enough ground clearence.  I could probally get ground clearence with some other wheels, but for that missile I was just doing concept testing.  I'm also sure I didn't place ANYTHING else properly. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: thobal on April 25, 2013, 06:25:26 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 25, 2013, 06:20:05 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2013, 06:18:41 pm
So, I did some testing with building a hideusly inefficient aircraft, and strapping it to a bunch of solid fuel rockets with wheels.
Can you spot the problem?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Join the space program, they said.  Fly state of the art planes, they said."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I actually managed to get it into the air, eventually.  Unfortunately only one side had wings, so I didn't get far.  My biggest problem was boosters falling off, and not being able to control my direction.

Hehehe, that is definitely not the right kind of wheels. :P

Also appears that those solid boosters are going to send it heading backwards at a fairly solid clip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 26, 2013, 10:49:40 am
Quote from: greatorder on April 26, 2013, 10:45:48 am
I suddenly feel the urge to make a modular missile pack SAM launcher, along with a railgun tank using the new rover parts.

What would you make a railgun with? I am curious.
Any mods for that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TempAcc on April 26, 2013, 01:34:04 pm
Do multiple electric xenon gas powered engines provide significant boosts in acceleration in the vacuum of space, compared to like, the same aircraft with half that hypothetical ammount?

I'm currently trying to get this absurd ship equipped with 1218 of them into space but I'm wondering if it'll give it'll even make such a different compared to the same ship with only 6 engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 26, 2013, 02:56:47 pm
Ion engines can't get to space. They can barely fight air resistance.

Ion is much more effective as a deep-space drive, where it has a fantastic ISP. Having multiple ion engines requires multiple times a many power sources, which will drastically increase mass (it's about one huge solar panel per drive, I think, plus any reserve batteries you think you'll need).

That said, you do have to make sure that the duration of your burn is less than the duration of the flight, which is a possible problem with ions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TempAcc on April 26, 2013, 03:21:32 pm
I didn't mean using ion to get to space, but how their performance would be IN space. I'll use regular engines to get it there first :P

Currently, in direct sunlight with all panels extended and its batteries it can burn for half a minute, I'm going to add more batteries and panels but its mass is already pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 26, 2013, 03:31:02 pm
The stock Ion engines are very... very... slow. You'll spend a fair amount of time doing anything useful with them.

There are mods which give you more powerful versions, though, and I find those a little better balanced. They're still not enough to get you off of Kerbin, but they'll still allow you to change orbits in a decent amount of time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 26, 2013, 05:55:42 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 26, 2013, 02:56:47 pm
Ion engines can't get to space. They can barely fight air resistance.

You people are all noobs. Including me, there is no way I could pull this one off. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr8KOst68cQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 26, 2013, 06:45:02 pm
Quote from: TempAcc on April 26, 2013, 03:21:32 pm
Currently, in direct sunlight with all panels extended and its batteries it can burn for half a minute, I'm going to add more batteries and panels but its mass is already pretty impressive.
I suggest dropping the batteries and using a radiothermal generator to maintain constant power to the probe core and at least 8 OX-4 solar panels per ion drive to power the drives. Solar panels very rarely run at 100% power so you have to use extra to maintain power even when in full sun. Unless you only need 1600 power or less (133 seconds of ion engine or 15.5 hours of probe core), need a lot of power in small bursts, or need to keep your budget low it's better to use radiothermals instead of batteries.

Ion engines can't get to space but if you use jets to boost them to over 2000mps and above 70km they can keep themselves there. (http://imgur.com/a/KueT8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 26, 2013, 07:14:48 pm
Ion engines can take you to space, just not as a rocket. Or quickly. I've barely touched space with an ion-space plane, but didn't have the patience to stabilize my orbit. It's a delicate ballet of maintaining a tiny inclination while building speed, and trying not to plummet during the night. Chasing dusk might work, but I haven't tried.

As to ion acceleration, twice as many ions will accelerate you twice as much. Twice of practically nothing is still terrible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 26, 2013, 07:30:17 pm
I've only used Ion's on small satellites, and in that they are quite useful for adjusting your orbit.  But in anything larger, they are probally useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on April 26, 2013, 10:42:35 pm
Spoiler: Pfffft, Logic? What's that? (click to show/hide)
Video of Inspiration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHopv23meU)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 26, 2013, 11:57:58 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on April 26, 2013, 10:42:35 pm
Spoiler: Pfffft, Logic? What's that? (click to show/hide)
Video of Inspiration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHopv23meU)
:o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 27, 2013, 02:54:20 am
Infiniglide is another reason I'm looking forward to the aerodynamics rewrite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 27, 2013, 03:24:28 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 27, 2013, 02:54:20 am
Infiniglide is another reason I'm looking forward to the aerodynamics rewrite.
And I look forward to abusing the hell out of a new system. ^_^

Though I will be kinda sad to see my spinning air-tunneler go away. The no-engines craft that I've managed to get up to around 4000 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 27, 2013, 09:18:01 am
Quote from: greatorder on April 27, 2013, 08:17:27 am
I just had a thought.

They add multiplayer, and I am going to do wars with other players in sandbox mode.
Never gonna happen, the game engine cannot handle the multiplayer and adding multiplayer would also mean a complete rewrite as the dev once said somewhere. But sadly wont stop anyone from asking it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 27, 2013, 09:55:50 am
Quote from: Devblog
So this is what we mean when we say Expansion Packs for KSP. We’re not talking about small content bundles, we’re talking about major game-changing sets of features, like Multiplayer, or Colonization. Things that add not just content, but new gameplay possibilities. Things that might not fit the initial concept very well, but we think are too cool to just cut off forever.

So not never, more maybe once upon an expansion pack.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 27, 2013, 10:14:11 am
Quote from: alway on April 27, 2013, 03:24:28 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 27, 2013, 02:54:20 am
Infiniglide is another reason I'm looking forward to the aerodynamics rewrite.
And I look forward to abusing the hell out of a new system. ^_^

Though I will be kinda sad to see my spinning air-tunneler go away. The no-engines craft that I've managed to get up to around 4000 m/s.

I fail to see how that defies proper aerodynamics. It's just one giant propeller. :P

Anyways, have some more shots:

Dawn/Dusk Moth heavy exploration rovers, soon coming to a body with atmosphere near you! They're even amphibious, albeit they're really, really slow in the water.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yggdra X passenger carrier thing! Surprisingly good at flying, all things considered. Carries a total of 15 kerbals.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Magellan construction rover truck thing! Also amphibious, but has dreadful turn rate. Will eventually probably have a robotic arm, assuming that mod is in a functional state and not going to cause random acts of Geddan.

Fun fact: It masses 70 tons. For reference, the Yggdra X is 60 tons, and that airship from before is 16.

It also broke off its RTGs upon entering the water. Hurray for design flaws! :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 27, 2013, 11:06:54 am
I love that mod...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 27, 2013, 01:00:46 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 27, 2013, 12:43:34 pm
Not sure if this has already been linked, but this looks pretty good: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/24926-0-19-Kerbal-LiveFeed-Passive-Multiplayer-Plugin-Client-Server-v0-6-1
omg, yes, Yes, YES!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 27, 2013, 01:14:58 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 25, 2013, 05:16:38 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 25, 2013, 04:36:25 pm
Super looking forward to the next version. Space mining will be so much fun, and even mining Kerbin will be an interesting experiment.
Linky, please?

I seem to be blind, because looking all over the forums turned up nothing >.<

Here's what the rumors are. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1bxuwp/summary_of_dev_team_announcements_for_020_and/)
More Rumors (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25602-Latest-features-in-0-20)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 27, 2013, 02:12:42 pm
this is like Kethane times a kerbillion!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 27, 2013, 02:13:53 pm
Is it just me or is there pretty severe lag when flying rockets out of the atmosphere, as opposed to low-altitude stuff or orbital stuff?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 27, 2013, 02:18:43 pm
If you have the ISA map mod, it causes a lot of lag while taking off.


I'm loving a lot of the stuff in those rumors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 27, 2013, 02:20:36 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on April 27, 2013, 02:18:43 pm
If you have the ISA map mod, it causes a lot of lag while taking off.


I'm loving a lot of the stuff in those rumors.

Man, I've seen the same problem. Any way to avoid it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 27, 2013, 02:40:37 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on April 27, 2013, 02:13:53 pm
Is it just me or is there pretty severe lag when flying rockets out of the atmosphere, as opposed to low-altitude stuff or orbital stuff?
The game will go its slowest, all other things being equal, when flying out of the atmosphere. The reason being that's when physics is doing the most. IRL, when leaving the atmosphere, there is a time known as 'max Q' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Q). It's a time when very high forces interact to put a lot of stress on the vehicle. This is important simply because KSP physics are the root of all the slowness. The way they do things is highly inefficient during high-force scenarios, as it is modeling every part's physics, interactions and (more importantly) its collision response. As a result of how its done, the simulation is actually doing a lot more work when there are very large forces on a vehicle, particularly when those forces are dynamic (like air resistance). For example, those no-engine craft which work by spinning are capable of taking me from perfect framerate to 1FPS if I spin them fast enough. So its an issue with how they do physics and being on the very edge of things you should do with PhysX. They could probably do better with a tailor-made solution, but good collision detection, response, ect, just isn't worth the time of implementing it; it's a rather difficult problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on April 27, 2013, 03:29:59 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES
What. This was the one thing I had a problem with with KSP: I'd run out of planets. Every game can benefit from procedural generated stuff. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 27, 2013, 07:15:16 pm
I just realised how we havent heard anything from the devs in a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on April 27, 2013, 08:50:42 pm
There's been about 5 dev blogs since the forums went up on the 19th.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on April 27, 2013, 09:20:31 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES

That was pretty much my reaction, but with more exclamation marks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 27, 2013, 09:22:55 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES
I'll believe that when I see the vaguest hints of it, to be honest. And I don't care if some sort of resource-gathering career mode is implemented as long as sandbox mode remains intact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2013, 09:48:35 pm
It's highly doubtful that they would remove sandbox mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 27, 2013, 10:21:25 pm
I think resource gathering will be just as important in Sandbox mode, from what I've been reading. Some of the more important resources are things you can turn into rocket fuel and mono propellant, as well as water.

If anything, it'll encourage you to place resource gathering bases on moons and such to use as refueling and resupply stations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 27, 2013, 10:23:40 pm
Thought that was the implied idea...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 27, 2013, 11:05:06 pm
ROVER CLEVELAND MK. 1

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WILL IT GET TO DUNA? PLACE YER BETS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on April 27, 2013, 11:13:11 pm
Why do you have air intakes there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 27, 2013, 11:16:22 pm
Quote from: Karlito on April 27, 2013, 11:13:11 pm
Why do you have air intakes there?

Don't aerospike engines benefit from air intakes? Either way, this launcher managed to get my lander to mars, so I hope it'll work for the rovers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on April 27, 2013, 11:22:03 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 27, 2013, 12:43:34 pm
Not sure if this has already been linked, but this looks pretty good: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/24926-0-19-Kerbal-LiveFeed-Passive-Multiplayer-Plugin-Client-Server-v0-6-1
Wow that's great, i just spent several hours on the kerbalSP.com server, even some of the devs were there. From what they told there are no plans for any official multiplayer until the game is very close to completion but that's not stopping such initiatives :D

I's very cool mod but more of a interactive chatroom with screenshot sharing capability, not really a multilpayer yet but still very fun. Thanks for sharing greatorder!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 28, 2013, 01:57:34 am
Well, forgot that Rover Cleveland didn't have a nuclear engine on his second-to-last stage, so instead I landed him on Minmus. Still! First rovers I've built that actually got to rove on another planet/moon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on April 28, 2013, 02:00:00 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on April 27, 2013, 11:16:22 pm
Quote from: Karlito on April 27, 2013, 11:13:11 pm
Why do you have air intakes there?

Don't aerospike engines benefit from air intakes? Either way, this launcher managed to get my lander to mars, so I hope it'll work for the rovers.

I don't think so; they consume oxidizer like other rocket engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 28, 2013, 02:52:51 am
Nope, aerospike don't use intake air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 28, 2013, 05:22:44 am
The idea with an aerospike is that they have a better ISP in atmosphere because of their nozzle design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 28, 2013, 05:28:59 am
Yup, IRL, the normal rocket engines are optimized to function between a certain pressure (and corresponding altitude), and are therefore less efficient at other altitudes. The aerospike works equally well across the board. It's efficiency is lower than a normal nozzle at that nozzle's optimal altitude, but it makes up for it during the rest of the ascent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 09:20:09 am
Quote from: greatorder on April 28, 2013, 08:50:02 am
Also, I tried to use mechjeb to get it into a 100Km orbit around minmus. Mechjeb tried to get into a 100Km orbit around kerbol >.<
Which version of mechjeb are you using? I've never had it detect the SOI incorrectly. If you're using the 2.x prerelease then ensure you remove all maneuver nodes before telling it to plot new ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 11:23:01 am
I had a satellite with some of those tiny rockomax side thrusters polar-orbiting Duna. After I completed my duna survey, I wanted to transfer to Ike into the same orbit, but I discovered that my 1000 m/s delta-v wouldn't even change from pole to equitorial, let alone give me enough fuel for a transfer.

Then I realized, I just needed to wait for Ike to be in the right place, and I could launch myself over Duna's north pole and come down onto Ike right into my desired orbit.

It was glorious- it was only 500 m/s for the entire maneuver. Now that I have the maps, I have to pick a good landing place for my permanent Duna mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 28, 2013, 01:01:08 pm
Well, thank god that RCS is enough to flip these rovers over. Both of them would have been dead by now if not for that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 01:11:51 pm
I've constructed a 6 satellite comms network in orbit of kerbin as I'm using the remotetech mod which requires an unbroken signal line to mission control for unmanned craft to function and even works in the lightspeed signal delay if you are manually piloting.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll probably add a few more to round out the orbits but with this setup I can get a clear line back to mission control from anywhere in orbit. They are on a 55 degree 1435km orbit with launches spaced 1 hour apart, 6 sats because kerbin has a 6 hour day. Now if I put at least 2 sats up in an equatorial orbit with dishes aimed at the mun, I should be able to send remote controlled vessels out there. First step will be to land a Munar tracking and relay station with a dish pointed back at Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:14:50 pm
That mod sounds like hell o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 01:19:06 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:14:50 pm
That mod sounds like hell o.O
I enjoy it because it adds some realistic requirements and infrastructure you must set up before you can blast remote probes all over. I'm trying to play realistically so no suicide missions and we always bring kerbonauts home. Remote probes are handy but they shouldn't realistically be able to react instantly to your commands when you are several light minutes or more away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:22:40 pm
I wonder how mechjeb handles that mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 01:25:44 pm
That mod sounds awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 01:33:04 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:22:40 pm
I wonder how mechjeb handles that mod.
It works fine because mechjeb is considered 'local control'. You need the comm line to connect to the craft to tell mechjeb to start working but otherwise it works fine. If you lose communications or power though, it will stop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:38:29 pm
Welp. Time to try that mod.

I expect much rage from my side :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 01:42:38 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:38:29 pm
Welp. Time to try that mod.

I expect much rage from my side :D
It isn't the easiest. Make sure you have some way to communicate both directions before you send a probe off. If you're going to the mun, have a dish on the craft and have it targeting a dish in orbit of kerbin which itself has an antenna that has a line of comms back to mission control. I have fun working everything out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:43:51 pm
Wait. So turning around will make a craft unoperable?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 01:46:24 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 01:43:51 pm
Wait. So turning around will make a craft unoperable?
No, fortunately they don't worry about the actual orientation of the dish. You right click the dish and tell it to target something else and if they have the range they connect regardless of orientation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 02:15:05 pm
So would you need RemoteCommand on all Kerbin-orbiting sattelites? Or where else do you control ships from?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 03:03:19 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 02:15:05 pm
So would you need RemoteCommand on all Kerbin-orbiting sattelites? Or where else do you control ships from?
You need any "Pod" element that has "RemoteTech" in its description. These are the new RT pods/disks or - if you use the RT compatibility mod (http://kerbalspaceport.com/remotetech-probe-compatability/) - all stock probes as well. This is required to process remote commands as well as relay them to other satellites.

To contact a remote probe you need a powered antenna on the remote probe that has enough range to reach back to KSC or to a relay satellite, and you need a pod with the remotetech command/control components. If the antenna is a dish, then it has to be targeted specifically through the context menu. Omni-directional antenna don't need to be targeted and they automatically form links.

The KSC tracking station is a 5Mm omni-directional antenna. For your first step I'd suggest putting a geosynchronous sat in orbit directly above KSC, or do as I did and place a mesh of sats in half-geosynch orbit to cover the surface. Each of my commsats has a RemoteTech Command part and a 9Mm omni-directional antenna. My munar commsat has two 50Mm dishes, one pointed at the Mun and one pointed at Minmus.

Interplanetary probes will require a satellite link for most of their travel time. As SatDishes are disabled by default, you'll immediately lose contact to the vessel right on the launchpad if no antenna is mounted. Tip: Attach the antenna to your first launcher stage. Before launch, enable your satdishes and link them up properly, then you can safely discard the antenna during ascent and don't have useless weight to carry around.

I'm planning to put a munar relay sat in a polar orbit around the mun with a dish pointing back at Kerbin.

More pics as I go:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The 4/5th pictures say 'out of contact' because the small omni-directional antenna aren't deployed yet. When undeployed they have a 2km range. I also hadn't targeted the dishes at any of the available relays, so the craft was cut off entirely and flown by the kerbonaut instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on April 28, 2013, 03:46:27 pm
Is there any way to know what your ejection angle is in vanilla or using Mechjeb? That'd make interplanetary travel a lot easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:04:17 pm
forsaken, would you need to have all of the sattelites orbiting Kerbin pointing their dishes at whatever you're sending into space for it to have contact?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:04:17 pm
forsaken, would you need to have all of the sattelites orbiting Kerbin pointing their dishes at whatever you're sending into space for it to have contact?
Most of my sats in orbit don't have dishes. Do you mean the munar comms sat? Yes, once I launch something I'd need to switch one of the dishes over to target it. You can do that remotely though if you have a comms line to the satellite by selecting it in the RT gui and changing the dish target. You don't even need to switch to the sat.

I'm doing some testing now but I THINK that if you have a ground station on the mun and you point the dish at the mun, that will work too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:23:29 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:04:17 pm
forsaken, would you need to have all of the sattelites orbiting Kerbin pointing their dishes at whatever you're sending into space for it to have contact?
Most of my sats in orbit don't have dishes.
Don't you need a dish in order to recieve from the dish? The OP in the thread seems to say that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:25:53 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:23:29 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:04:17 pm
forsaken, would you need to have all of the sattelites orbiting Kerbin pointing their dishes at whatever you're sending into space for it to have contact?
Most of my sats in orbit don't have dishes.
Don't you need a dish in order to recieve from the dish? The OP in the thread seems to say that...
I have 6 relay sats in orbit with omni-directional antenna and two sats in orbit with an omni antenna and two dishes each. Those sats with dishes are my long range comms and I will target them at any other dishes within range, yes. But since they also have omni-directional antenna they can pass the signal they get via the dish to the relay network via the normal antenna and then back to the ground station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:31:21 pm
But what happens if Kerbin comes between the commsat and your space probe? Or do you have two dishes on the space probe and always one commsat that is on the right side of Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:36:52 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:31:21 pm
But what happens if Kerbin comes between the commsat and your space probe? Or do you have two dishes on the space probe and always one commsat that is on the right side of Kerbin?
I have two commsats deployed on opposite sides of the planet so there is always one looking at the moon, sometimes two. I could bump it up to three or more to ensure I always have LOS.

If kerbin did get in the way, the probe would just stop doing stuff until kerbin got out of the way again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:40:50 pm
So if I understand you correctly, the commsats point their dish at the space probe (or is this not necessary), and the space probe has a dish for each commsat? Or does it just point at Kerbin? I'm not sure when it's okay to point at a body instead of individual stateliness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 04:44:52 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 04:40:50 pm
So if I understand you correctly, the commsats point their dish at the space probe (or is this not necessary), and the space probe has a dish for each commsat? Or does it just point at Kerbin? I'm not sure when it's okay to point at a body instead of individual stateliness.
That's exactly what I'm testing now actually. I'll let you know soon. :)

Edit: The forum post for the mod says this:

Quote
If you have two vessels that are far apart (for example one in orbit around Kerbin, and one around the Mun) you don't need to precisely point them at each other, it's enough to point them at each others planets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 05:10:53 pm
Good to know, but isn't the moon close enough for antennae anyway?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 05:11:39 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 05:10:53 pm
Good to know, but isn't the moon close enough for antennae anyway?
Mun is 11.4 million meters away. I don't think any of the omni reach that far, do they?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 28, 2013, 05:15:22 pm
The non stock one goes 20m meters. nvm it goes 8Mm
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 05:33:20 pm
It SEEMS like once you're not in the same SOI of the planet you can point the dish at the planet. Once I was within the munar SOI I could target kerbin and it would pick the nearest commsat with a dish aimed at the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 05:51:01 pm
I'm really hoping that, if we get space resources, we get at least a few tiny asteroids with ice and other mineables on them, because I want to put one in orbit and then use that as a permanent fueling base.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 06:08:53 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 05:51:01 pm
I'm really hoping that, if we get space resources, we get at least a few tiny asteroids with ice and other mineables on them, because I want to put one in orbit and then use that as a permanent fueling base.
They said already that an asteroid belt is planned, along with a captured asteroid moon around jool. I can't imagine they'd put all that in and not make them minable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
Will we be able to change the trajectory of the astroids?  I want to put one in a decaying orbit around Kerbin.  Or just put it on a direct trajectory towards the space center. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 28, 2013, 06:15:54 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
Will we be able to change the trajectory of the astroids?  I want to put one in a decaying orbit around Kerbin.  Or just put it on a direct trajectory towards the space center.
Yo dog, I heard you like massive lag, so we put hundreds of physics objects in your system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 28, 2013, 06:19:18 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
Will we be able to change the trajectory of the astroids?  I want to put one in a decaying orbit around Kerbin.  Or just put it on a direct trajectory towards the space center.
I doubt it. To much potential for catastrophic lag and physics glitches sending rocks careening into each other or your ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:22:55 pm
Damn it.  I didn't want to, but it doesn't look like I have a choice.  Anyone up to helping me steal a couple of those supercomputers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 06:23:52 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
Will we be able to change the trajectory of the astroids?  I want to put one in a decaying orbit around Kerbin.  Or just put it on a direct trajectory towards the space center.
I have no idea.
Quote from: Graknorke on April 28, 2013, 06:15:54 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 06:13:42 pm
Will we be able to change the trajectory of the astroids?  I want to put one in a decaying orbit around Kerbin.  Or just put it on a direct trajectory towards the space center.
Yo dog, I heard you like massive lag, so we put hundreds of physics objects in your system.
If I were to do it, I'd make the asteroids be 'on rails' just like the planets until a certain amount of force was applied or until something landed on the surface.

Anyway I have more pictures.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 06:33:33 pm
All objects with orbits are on rails until they're give a new trajectory. Asteroids would be more like very large spaceship parts than small planets in that respect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2013, 06:40:55 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 06:33:33 pm
All objects with orbits are on rails until they're give a new trajectory. Asteroids would be more like very large spaceship parts than small planets in that respect.
By 'on rails' I mean the way the planets/moons are currently. They are not physics enabled. The asteroids don't need to be physics enabled either until you attempt to move one, which means no physics calculations for the hundreds of other rocks. Its really the only way to include a large number of objects with substantial mass and gravity. If they ARE physics enabled they'd be pulling each other around, bumping into each other, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 28, 2013, 06:51:29 pm
Being on-rails with physics disabled until sufficient force is applied seems like a good way to do it. I'd also make a part that can drill into the asteroid to apply force to it, or somehow 'dock' with an asteroid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2013, 07:46:00 pm
Does anyone also know if they are planning on adding more terrain features, or something like cities, to Kerbin?  Also, are they ever going to add any sort of destructible terrain for things like rocket impacts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 28, 2013, 08:23:31 pm
Actually things don't interact gravitationally with more than one thing- you actually couldn't have an asteroid that it is possible to move have any gravity. And as far as I know, if something isn't either passing through a SOI or else under thrust (or air resistance, or torque), then it's not going to change course.

Under my system, all asteroids (or at least, all asteroids with little enough mass to be reasonably moved) would have so little gravity that they would effectively not have SOIs, which means they would be simple enough to simulate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 28, 2013, 11:15:01 pm
That's not too far from the truth, either. The four largest asteroids in the Solar System have masses of ~1019. The gravitational constant is 10-11. Their shortest radius is 430~900 km. Take in mind that the gravitational acceleration equation is

a = G M / R2. And R is in meters. That's a very tiny gravitational force even a short distance away from the center.

If I take Ceres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(dwarf_planet)) as an example, it has a gravitational acceleration of a whopping 0.27 m/s2. And it's the largest asteroid, a whole dwarf planet. The four largest asteroids also take up over 75% of the total mass of all the asteroids in the Solar System. Most small asteroids will have barely enough gravity to hold themselves together, never mind have noticeable effects on spacecraft. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 29, 2013, 12:20:41 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES
I hope very much that this can be combined with multiplayer and having to find planets using orbital telescopes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on April 29, 2013, 12:23:13 am
Quote from: Leonon on April 29, 2013, 12:20:41 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on April 27, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Did any of you spotted the "Procedurally generated solar systems and FTL engines" on the rumor list?
GOD OH GOD YES SO MUCH YES
I hope very much that this can be combined with multiplayer and having to find planets using orbital telescopes.

Finding planets via orbital telescopes is silly and you should feel silly. You can launch the telescope into orbit, sure, but of the system being probed! Much more effective. That, or just go in blind and fly into things that look like planets from the cockpit, which fits the KSP soul.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on April 29, 2013, 03:08:39 am
I think the telescopes would be used more for actually finding solar systems, rather than finding planets on them. No matter how high your resolution is, it's about impossible to have a sure count of the number of planets in a foreign system with a telescope.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on April 29, 2013, 05:13:29 am
May I remind you of what we're doing IRL? "sure count", no, "estimated count", sure!
And we're progressing :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 29, 2013, 05:33:01 am
I would wish we could get goats in this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on April 29, 2013, 05:56:53 am
Going by the current rate, i doubt we'll have to be worrying about telescopes anytime this year anyway :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:09:20 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 29, 2013, 05:33:01 am
I would wish we could get goats in this game.
...why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on April 29, 2013, 08:33:10 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:09:20 am
Quote from: DrPoo on April 29, 2013, 05:33:01 am
I would wish we could get goats in this game.
...why?

Goats. In space. Also, a variety of things from just about every major SS13 server to a certain barely known rocket enthusiast known for his severe injury during a goat and rocket-related incident. This assumes I know everything about space goats in media.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 29, 2013, 09:03:39 am
Managed to get a probe into orbit of Mun with the communication mod :D

Didn't need dishes on Kerbin-orbiting sats though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 09:38:10 am
Quote from: Dutchling on April 29, 2013, 09:03:39 am
Managed to get a probe into orbit of Mun with the communication mod :D

Didn't need dishes on Kerbin-orbiting sats though.
Yeah as I said a dish can connect to an omnidirectional antenna from twice the normal distance, so mun is possible. I now have a munar lander with an antenna, a munar relay with a dish pointed at Kerbin, and a surveyor mapping the mun and searching for kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on April 29, 2013, 03:25:50 pm
Quote from: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?

Complete except for the exact north and south poles, but really, who puts anything there anyway?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 03:31:50 pm
Quote from: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?
True in theory if you could get them exactly equilateral, but in practice 6 sats provided me with very solid coverage and its not like they cost anything right now. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on April 29, 2013, 03:39:57 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 03:31:50 pm
Quote from: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?
True in theory if you could get them exactly equilateral, but in practice 6 sats provided me with very solid coverage and its not like they cost anything right now. :P

Nah, they don't have to perfectly equilateral. I have 3 set up, and they are 100ish degrees and 120ish degrees and 140ish degrees from each other, plus or minus a bit due to eyeballing it for the last sat. They aren't set up equally at all, and I still get complete coverage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 04:44:58 pm
Quote from: Mono124 on April 29, 2013, 03:39:57 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 03:31:50 pm
Quote from: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?
True in theory if you could get them exactly equilateral, but in practice 6 sats provided me with very solid coverage and its not like they cost anything right now. :P

Nah, they don't have to perfectly equilateral. I have 3 set up, and they are 100ish degrees and 120ish degrees and 140ish degrees from each other, plus or minus a bit due to eyeballing it for the last sat. They aren't set up equally at all, and I still get complete coverage.
Does that include odd orbits around the planet? I set up the 6 in the pattern I did so that they cover every orbit and cover the surface as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 29, 2013, 04:46:26 pm
I put a fuckton of sattelites on geosync orbit, three dish-sattelites on a larger orbit (each 120 degrees apart from each other) and everything works for me ^^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on April 29, 2013, 04:55:02 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 04:44:58 pm
Quote from: Mono124 on April 29, 2013, 03:39:57 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 03:31:50 pm
Quote from: ank on April 29, 2013, 03:19:38 pm
Hey Forsaken, you satellite network put me in the mood to do the same.

My calculations show me that you could get complete kerbal coverage with just 3 geosynchronous satellites, at the equator, you agree?
True in theory if you could get them exactly equilateral, but in practice 6 sats provided me with very solid coverage and its not like they cost anything right now. :P

Nah, they don't have to perfectly equilateral. I have 3 set up, and they are 100ish degrees and 120ish degrees and 140ish degrees from each other, plus or minus a bit due to eyeballing it for the last sat. They aren't set up equally at all, and I still get complete coverage.
Does that include odd orbits around the planet? I set up the 6 in the pattern I did so that they cover every orbit and cover the surface as well.

I would assume it includes odd orbits. They can all talk to each other, so I can't really come up with an orbit that at least one sat wouldn't be in contact with any probes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 05:10:32 pm
I'm working on a mobile airship drilling platform which will fly to a site and land. It doesn't have a converter, its purpose is just to drill. The Kethane will be pumped out via a KAS cable to another ship I'll land nearby and then taken into orbit to be processed.

Its not 100% practical but it will give me a store of kethane in orbit which can be refined into any of the 4 types of fuel, and its good practice for when I set up bases on other planets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
So... airships are hard. The balancing is an issue.

Spoiler: Anchor Testing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Landing Testing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Iterative Beta Testing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final (click to show/hide)

It has a KAS winch on the bottom with a grapple for anchoring in place and drawing itself gently to the ground, or for lifting cargo. The forward winch has a detachable connector so a kerbonaut can connect the cable to a nearby ship for transportation or simply transferring resources such as the mined kethane. The prop on the back is electric, one of the firespitter parts. Its actually a propeller, not a pusher, but you can reverse the props in that pack so it works as a pusher as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on April 29, 2013, 06:58:08 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
-snip-
Agh! My connection!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 07:05:28 pm
Quote from: Sirus on April 29, 2013, 06:58:08 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
-snip-
Agh! My connection!
Sorry..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 29, 2013, 10:49:56 pm
Imgur lets you use small thumbnails that link to the full size image. No need to spoiler and helps out people with slow connections while still providing a preview.

[ url=http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZ.png][ img]http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZs.png[ /img][ /url]

With the spaces after the ['s removed becomes

(http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZ.png)

The first http address is the image you're linking, the second is the same but with an "s" before the .png to show to the smaller thumbnail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 30, 2013, 03:43:05 am
Aw man, that remotetech mod is awesome. Encourages me to do stuff like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Got a nice 'CommProbeSpreader' design going on. Each launch contains 8 comm probes, each of which has 1 gigantor solar, 1 of the largest dishes, and 1 antennae. This image is after 3 launches, the inner 2 of which have only started deploying their probes. Plop enough in different orbits, and you're almost guaranteed to have coverage at any given time. And thanks to the way orbital mechanics work, dump em all in roughly the same place with slightly different orbits, and soon they will spread out enough to be the equivalent of several launches. ^_^

Silly forsaken and your 6 launches for full coverage. You just need to use moar dakka. :P
Edit: All deployed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 30, 2013, 04:24:29 am
That's either overkill or magnificent. Can't decide which x3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 30, 2013, 04:31:39 am
As it turns out, neither, it's just terrible.

I really should have tested that probe design before sending them out.... Opening the dish kinda results in them self-destructing violently.

Also, as it turns out, having tons of probes in orbit and all calculating comms results in a massive slowdown in the game at all times. Judging by just how bad it was with all those probes in range of each other, their signal pathfinding is probably a naive implementation. >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 30, 2013, 05:10:34 am
@Forsaken
As long as the 3 satellites have the same orbit, but is a third of the way behind of the next satellite, you should have complete coverage.
They need to be above a certain height though, given by the equation:
(http://i.imgur.com/I8JA3x3.png)

Where h is the height above ground for each satellite, r is the radius of the planet(or moon), and n is the number of satellites.

The radius of Kerbin is 600km, let's just plot it on a graph for fun:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

At a value of n=2 we get infinity as we might suspect.
The interesting thing is that the height goes down pretty fast as you add more satellites.
And if we solve for a height of 60km we get the number of satellites to 7.31
But we can't have a third of a satellite, so we have to round up to 8.

Not covered here is coverage at the poles, which is no problem with 3 or 4 satellites, but becomes more of a problem if you gotta control ground vehicles on the poles, with lower satellites.

If you really need ground coverage near the poles, I would suggest 3 more satellites in a polar orbit.
(Poles is referring to the spots farthest away from the "ring" of satellites, so it might not be the actual poles)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on April 30, 2013, 05:12:56 am
Bleh.. do we have to bring rocket science into a game about.. rockets..
Nevermind, carry on!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 30, 2013, 05:17:39 am
Rocket Science is just trigonometry and differential equations, rolled up in a tube, and lit on fire.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on April 30, 2013, 06:22:53 am
Quote from: ank on April 30, 2013, 05:17:39 am
Rocket Science is just trigonometry and differential equations, rolled up in a tube, and lit on fire.

Dont forget the aspects of chemistry, computer engineering, sociology and varios medical sciences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 30, 2013, 07:09:37 am
And the occasional bouts of insanity-inducing, incoherent rage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2013, 07:22:41 am
Quote from: Leonon on April 29, 2013, 10:49:56 pm
Imgur lets you use small thumbnails that link to the full size image. No need to spoiler and helps out people with slow connections while still providing a preview.

[ url=http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZ.png][ img]http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZs.png[ /img][ /url]

With the spaces after the ['s removed becomes

(http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/kqYIhoZ.png)

The first http address is the image you're linking, the second is the same but with an "s" before the .png to show to the smaller thumbnail.
I'll keep that in mind. I knew it could do thumbnails, I just didn't think to do so.

Quote from: ank on April 30, 2013, 05:10:34 am
-maths-

While that is all cool, it took me less time to just launch 6 satellites than it took you to do the math, and my network CAN control ground vehicles at the poles if I need to. :P In fact I've not run into a situation yet where they couldn't relay a signal back.

Also, my airship finally completed its 7 hour journey to the kethane deposit. 7 hours... at 4x speed that is still a long time to watch an airship fly. And I didn't actually get 4x speed most of the time. Overall it took about 2 hours realtime. We had a slight mishap with the anchor on landing... the hook tore free of the connector. In future designs I may include two anchor hooks. Also connecting the airship to the test vessel was a disaster because I forgot to turn off the altitude controls on the airship part. As soon as it connected and 'docked' it sensed that its weight had increased so it jerked the airship up, applying more upwards pressure to compensate. This resulted in tearing the top half of the target ship away from the bottom and a large explosion.

Still, it does mine Kethane and we experienced no loss of life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 30, 2013, 08:08:34 am
Just FYI it took me 5 min to do the maths and another 5 min to write the post... you must be pretty fast at launching  8)

The fun for me is figuring out how to do things most efficiently, I might not even use the satellite mod, and just do calculations instead.

Still, 6 is the bare minimum if you want complete ground coverage 100% of the time.

Ground coverage on Kerbin doesn't really matter, but it matters a lot on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 30, 2013, 08:13:46 am
Spoiler: bitches (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 30, 2013, 08:28:30 am
I can't tell if you are making a cage bike, or atomic modelling  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 30, 2013, 08:38:42 am
I have no idea either.

I did not expect it to turn out like this xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 30, 2013, 08:39:12 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
So... airships are hard. The balancing is an issue.


-snip-
It has a KAS winch on the bottom with a grapple for anchoring in place and drawing itself gently to the ground, or for lifting cargo. The forward winch has a detachable connector so a kerbonaut can connect the cable to a nearby ship for transportation or simply transferring resources such as the mined kethane. The prop on the back is electric, one of the firespitter parts. Its actually a propeller, not a pusher, but you can reverse the props in that pack so it works as a pusher as well.

1: Use a structural fuselage instead of a rocket fuel tank. Rocket fuel is HEAVY.
2: Use at least two balloons, one in front of the other. That lets you pitch them.


Speaking of KAS, I spent a while learning KAS, trying to make an atmospheric skycrane type vehicle. Unfortunately, I have had some trouble with the latter: balloons tend to be clumsy, and helicopters are hard to fly/balance. I did, however, make some pretty awesome stuff in the pursuit of this. Might grab pics in a sec after I finish posting.

I also need to test how much I can pick up with the robotic arm on Kerbin gravity. Wheeeeee~

And while I'm at it, I might mention that my objective for the skycrane is to be able to pick up a Magellan. Not so much because I plan to be airlifting any if I can help it, but because if I can handle those, I'm pretty much set for life. Those things are HEAVY. Will be heavier if I test the robotic arm and find it works enough to warrant having it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 30, 2013, 08:45:45 am
are the devs still doing their weekly livestreams? anyone has link for the last one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2013, 02:25:57 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 30, 2013, 08:39:12 am
1: Use a structural fuselage instead of a rocket fuel tank. Rocket fuel is HEAVY.
2: Use at least two balloons, one in front of the other. That lets you pitch them.
Have any airship craft files you'd like to share? I could use a good frame to work with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on April 30, 2013, 02:54:59 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2013, 02:25:57 pm
Quote from: Twi on April 30, 2013, 08:39:12 am
1: Use a structural fuselage instead of a rocket fuel tank. Rocket fuel is HEAVY.
2: Use at least two balloons, one in front of the other. That lets you pitch them.
Have any airship craft files you'd like to share? I could use a good frame to work with.
Depends on what other mods you have! The ones that come with the mod itself are pretty decent, though. Try a couple of those, and fine-tune things as needed.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on April 30, 2013, 02:58:04 pm
My main menu is borked. I can no longer load games ;_; 

Anyone else ever had this problems. Question mark.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 30, 2013, 04:08:41 pm
I haven't, however, I have had problems with new ships launching with the same set of kerbals that are already in orbit, which creates interesting problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2013, 04:15:26 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on April 30, 2013, 02:58:04 pm
My main menu is borked. I can no longer load games ;_; 

Anyone else ever had this problems. Question mark.
Verify your steam cache.

Quote from: Japa on April 30, 2013, 04:08:41 pm
I haven't, however, I have had problems with new ships launching with the same set of kerbals that are already in orbit, which creates interesting problems.
Yeah that does happen sometimes. If you ever get both copies into the same craft one of them will vanish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 30, 2013, 04:24:01 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2013, 04:15:26 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 30, 2013, 04:08:41 pm
I haven't, however, I have had problems with new ships launching with the same set of kerbals that are already in orbit, which creates interesting problems.
Yeah that does happen sometimes. If you ever get both copies into the same craft one of them will vanish.
Yupm but sometimes not permanently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mistercheif on April 30, 2013, 10:08:47 pm
So I got the B9 Aerospace pack, mainly for the M27 cockpit, but I'm running into a problem where the kerbal's portraits aren't appearing so I can't check out the IVA.  The problem wasn't happening with a similar rocket using a different cockpit, the stock M2 cockpit.

Has anybody had this happen before?

[EDIT]: And it seems it happens even if I create a new ship with only the cockpit... Maybe it could be Crew Manifest or something...

[EDIT]: Nope, I isolated it to the M27...time to post in the B9 thread!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 01, 2013, 05:09:09 am
So I just launched a single-piece spacestation into orbit. Now I just need to figure out how many kerbin souls are required to dock my spare parts cargo ship so I can use it as a highly efficient satellite launchepad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 07:50:23 am
Quote from: Azated on May 01, 2013, 05:09:09 am
So I just launched a single-piece spacestation into orbit. Now I just need to figure out how many kerbin souls are required to dock my spare parts cargo ship so I can use it as a highly efficient satellite launchepad.
Oh I should add that mod back in. Have they fixed the problem with launching ships 'from space' actually causing them to crash into the planet randomly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 01, 2013, 08:45:47 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 07:50:23 am
Quote from: Azated on May 01, 2013, 05:09:09 am
So I just launched a single-piece spacestation into orbit. Now I just need to figure out how many kerbin souls are required to dock my spare parts cargo ship so I can use it as a highly efficient satellite launchepad.
Oh I should add that mod back in. Have they fixed the problem with launching ships 'from space' actually causing them to crash into the planet randomly?
Judging from my adventures, probably not. Then again, my adventures involved the warp thing, so maybe they did fix that. Never got around to actually BUILDING anything in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 01, 2013, 09:37:03 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 07:50:23 am
Quote from: Azated on May 01, 2013, 05:09:09 am
So I just launched a single-piece spacestation into orbit. Now I just need to figure out how many kerbin souls are required to dock my spare parts cargo ship so I can use it as a highly efficient satellite launchepad.
Oh I should add that mod back in. Have they fixed the problem with launching ships 'from space' actually causing them to crash into the planet randomly?

Well the redux version seem to use another way to move the ship wich is and i quote *but I've modified the orbit setting mechanism to work like HyperEdit, so it should no longer blow up your ships.*

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26482-0-19-1-OrbitalConstruction-Redux
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 09:46:31 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on May 01, 2013, 09:37:03 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 07:50:23 am
Quote from: Azated on May 01, 2013, 05:09:09 am
So I just launched a single-piece spacestation into orbit. Now I just need to figure out how many kerbin souls are required to dock my spare parts cargo ship so I can use it as a highly efficient satellite launchepad.
Oh I should add that mod back in. Have they fixed the problem with launching ships 'from space' actually causing them to crash into the planet randomly?

Well the redux version seem to use another way to move the ship wich is and i quote *but I've modified the orbit setting mechanism to work like HyperEdit, so it should no longer blow up your ships.*

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26482-0-19-1-OrbitalConstruction-Redux
Oh excellent! Now I need to see if I can get heavy kethane converts to make spare parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 01, 2013, 10:14:03 am
(http://i.imgur.com/23JTCFJs.png) (http://imgur.com/23JTCFJ)
So I landed on Jool
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 10:15:03 am
Quote from: Japa on May 01, 2013, 10:14:03 am
(http://i.imgur.com/23JTCFJs.png) (http://imgur.com/23JTCFJ)
So I landed on Jool
I don't think that counts as landing... what did you do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 10:34:06 am
Hm. I may need to tweak the kethane -> spareparts conversion... currently 2000 units of kethane makes 0.6 spareparts. haha

Edit: Better... 2000 units now makes just barely less than 2 spareparts which is about right since 1000 kethane is 1 ton and 1 sparepart is 1 ton, so there is a little loss but it does work.

If anyone else wants this, just replace the part.cfg in the \Parts\kethane_2m_converter with this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9910241/part.cfg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 01, 2013, 11:37:46 am
Mich mods and versions do i need to be able to convert keth into spareparts and what are they used for?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 11:42:32 am
Quote from: DrPoo on May 01, 2013, 11:37:46 am
Mich mods and versions do i need to be able to convert keth into spareparts and what are they used for?
You need the kethane mod and the spaceport redux mod that jocan linked.

Check out Jocan's link and it explains how to use it. Using that config file you can convert kethane into spareparts slowly and build ships in orbit far away. Its up to you to get the kethane into place, but its easier than moving the spareparts out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 01, 2013, 12:22:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 10:15:03 am
Quote from: Japa on May 01, 2013, 10:14:03 am
(http://i.imgur.com/23JTCFJs.png) (http://imgur.com/23JTCFJ)
So I landed on Jool
I don't think that counts as landing... what did you do?
Sat there as I watched my rover bounce around and get torn apart after I made the mistake of areobraking on Jool to save fuel.

Also question: is it better to come in really close, slow down at the periapsis, and then go up to the orbit you want, or to try to get to that orbit directly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 01, 2013, 01:54:55 pm
Reinstalled the game and adding new mods. The ones I am going to use are so far:
Kerbal Attachment System
MechJeb
Kethane Pack
ISA MapSat
Ion Engine Pack

I decided to not get the sattelite control one I used earlier as the (modded) game is just too unstable.

Any good mods I missed? I am not interested in mods that just adds fuel / engine parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 01:57:50 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 01, 2013, 01:54:55 pm
Reinstalled the game and adding new mods. The ones I am going to use are so far:
Kerbal Attachment System
MechJeb
Kethane Pack
ISA MapSat
Ion Engine Pack

I decided to not get the sattelite control one I used earlier as the (modded) game is just too unstable.

Any good mods I missed? I am not interested in mods that just adds fuel / engine parts.
Airships, Firespitter plane parts if you like planes, Docking Struts or Quantum Struts, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Haystack, Editor part filter, Subassembly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 01, 2013, 02:02:20 pm
I don't like planes and I will airships once I actually want to make them, but at least some of the others look very interesting! Thanks you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 02:07:00 pm
Haystack is a godsend after trying to select a specific ship in the middle of a bunch of debris...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 01, 2013, 02:08:32 pm
Haven't checked that yet but it seems like something I really need Dx.

What is the use of Kerbal Alarm Clock if you have MechJeb and a clock though?


edit: Let's see how this goes. Time to get me some kethane ^^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 01, 2013, 02:16:19 pm
Time to go make a Jool colony, thanks Forsaken! You are awesome!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2013, 02:29:05 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 01, 2013, 02:08:32 pm
Haven't checked that yet but it seems like something I really need Dx.

What is the use of Kerbal Alarm Clock if you have MechJeb and a clock though?


edit: Let's see how this goes. Time to get me some kethane ^^
I use kerbal alarm clock to alert me when launch windows to other planets are coming up, or when a deep space probe gets to a certain point. It can be used for a lot of things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 01, 2013, 03:32:23 pm
Yes, Kerbal alarm clock is a real gem. It lets me confidently launch several adventah's at the same time, and still make all the maneuver nodes!

  Another fantastic little mod is Chatterer. You owe it to yourself to check out Chatterer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McMagma on May 01, 2013, 04:27:47 pm
A Nice Image from my space lander.
(http://i.imgur.com/6AvkRyM.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2013, 12:38:14 am
Whelp, landed on Bop, kinda, but all my wheels exploded, and then I kept sliding around on my rover's belly due to lack of gravity leaving me no friction, eventually crashing and exploding.

Here's a picture before I landed: (http://i.imgur.com/5klPoDdl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/5klPoDd)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on May 02, 2013, 04:16:22 am
It can't be worse than Gilly, though? That one is a pain to land on but the kethane is worth it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2013, 04:22:30 am
Dunno, however, I have managed to land on laythe, and come to the discovery that my rover has some flaws. Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/owKxO

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 02, 2013, 08:20:35 am
Quote from: Japa on May 02, 2013, 04:22:30 am
Dunno, however, I have managed to land on laythe, and come to the discovery that my rover has some flaws. Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/owKxO

How did that even happen? In any even, needs moar strut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2013, 08:41:22 am
The drogue chute ripped off the ASAS it was connected to, also poor bob couldn't climb back onto the rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 02, 2013, 09:00:23 am
After three tries, I finally got my rover / miner on Mun.

Turns out the drills don't reach the ground...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2013, 09:09:25 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 02, 2013, 09:00:23 am
After three tries, I finally got my rover / miner on Mun.

Turns out the drills don't reach the ground...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now try that with a mun of Jool. And accidentally destroy your rover by pressing shift and flipping it over when it's driving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 02, 2013, 09:49:48 am
I no longer rage at rovers. I just quicksave every minute or so.

Anyway, I found a spot on a hill where 4 of my 6 drills actually do touch the ground ^^. Close enough...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2013, 10:16:09 am
Wait... there's saving and loading?


!!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 02, 2013, 10:20:05 am
I play roguelike KSP. No quicksaves.

It's made missions all the more hair-raising.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 02, 2013, 12:14:40 pm
Quote from: Japa on May 02, 2013, 10:16:09 am
Wait... there's saving and loading?


!!!!
f5 and f9

Quote from: PTTG?? on May 02, 2013, 10:20:05 am
I play roguelike KSP. No quicksaves.

It's made missions all the more hair-raising.

It's the same for me, except with rovers. Those hellspawns are bugged out as fuck and I'm not going to start all over again just because some motorized imp decided to do a backflip.


Anyway, I connected a rocket to my miner/rover on Mun. Turns out that you cannot use the KAS link between vehicles to refine Kethane. I need a new miner with liquid fuel / monopropellant / etc tanks ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 02, 2013, 01:32:40 pm
You might find rovers more stable if you drive them in docking mode. When you're in staging mode, driving forward is also trying to tip your rover over.

  I need to get around to posting some of my own missions soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2013, 02:36:40 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 02, 2013, 09:00:23 am
After three tries, I finally got my rover / miner on Mun.

Turns out the drills don't reach the ground...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pad testing of all systems prior to mission launch is essential.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on May 02, 2013, 06:40:52 pm
So, I have miners on Minmus now. It's just a matter of mass implementation to actually turn it into a refueling base.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 02, 2013, 06:44:04 pm
What mod is it where you do all the mining?  I keep hearing about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on May 02, 2013, 06:45:04 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 02, 2013, 06:44:04 pm
What mod is it where you do all the mining?  I keep hearing about it.

Kethane. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-4-1-New-Jet-Engine-Compact-Detector-and-Heavy-Converter-%28fixed%29) It's a pretty cool mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 02, 2013, 07:17:02 pm
After completely failing to get the right order to dock my spare parts supply vessels, I've decided to create an Antarctic kethane research base.

Speaking of mods, would anyone happen to have a mod that allows supply routes of some kind? Something like automated launches of vessels from a planetary kethane refinery to a spacestation once it's full of fuel would be awesome.

EDIT:

Quote from: ShoesandHats on May 02, 2013, 06:45:04 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 02, 2013, 06:44:04 pm
What mod is it where you do all the mining?  I keep hearing about it.

Kethane. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-4-1-New-Jet-Engine-Compact-Detector-and-Heavy-Converter-%28fixed%29) It's a pretty cool mod.


You might want to check out the Orbital Construction (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26482-0-19-1-OrbitalConstruction-Redux) mod too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2013, 07:19:13 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 02, 2013, 07:17:02 pm
After completely failing to get the right order to dock my spare parts supply vessels, I've decided to create an Antarctic kethane research base.

Speaking of mods, would anyone happen to have a mod that allows supply routes of some kind? Something like automated launches of vessels from a planetary kethane refinery to a spacestation once it's full of fuel would be awesome.
There is currently no automation of any kind in KSP. I guess you could just make a cheat part that generates a resource from nothing to simulate incoming resources.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 02, 2013, 09:42:39 pm
So I was totally going to post something that was actually productive, and I still might.

But I got distracted by doing Soviet Tank Drops, Kerbal-Style, which is also the name of my new classical dubstep rock band.

Unlike my classical dubstep rock band, however, extremely Kerbal Soviet tank drops were an actual thing, and a slightly more safe but still awesome variation was not, as far as I know, taken out of use due to a terrible disaster. Basically, take a Soviet C-130 equivalent and load it up with some tanks of your choice . Possibly optionally (I can't find the wikipedia page anymore >_<) strap some parachutes  and/or retrorockets to the tanks. Fly the plane (duh). Fly said plane really, really close to the ground. Drive the tanks off the back of the plane and onto the ground, letting them coast to a stop. While the plane is still technically flying.

Alas, this was, as you might expect, as dangerous as it was awesome, and they stopped doing it after an accident got some important people killed. There is, however, the other variation, which is more like a standard low altitude dropping-tanks maneuver, but in addition to parachutes, they strap retrorockets to the tanks to help with the landing.You heard me. Rockets.

Anyways, back to my extremely kerbal take. I would have done it the actual way, but I couldn't get the tanks into the Mk4 cargo bay.   I was also much too lazy to actually make separate tanks, and since I haven't installed Crew Manifest yet, the tanks are thus unmanned. BUT THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT:

(http://img.ie/images/7wzcd.png)
(http://img.ie/images/qq1fr.png)

Open the spoiler for the thrilling conclusion!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:49:34 pm
Thumbnails, please? That's a lot of really large images on my not-very-good network :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 02, 2013, 09:51:19 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:49:34 pm
Thumbnails, please? That's a lot of really large images on my not-very-good network :/

Sorry Dx I'll see what I can do. which may involve img.ur or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:52:58 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 02, 2013, 09:51:19 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:49:34 pm
Thumbnails, please? That's a lot of really large images on my not-very-good network :/

Sorry Dx I'll see what I can do. which may involve img.ur or something.
Eh, no point reuploading the ones you've already posted. Just, you know, for future reference :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 02, 2013, 09:53:57 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:52:58 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 02, 2013, 09:51:19 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 02, 2013, 09:49:34 pm
Thumbnails, please? That's a lot of really large images on my not-very-good network :/

Sorry Dx I'll see what I can do. which may involve img.ur or something.
Eh, no point reuploading the ones you've already posted. Just, you know, for future reference :P

Ah, alright then :P

That aside, KERBAL TANK DROPS WHOO.

* Twi spins in pointless victory.*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 03, 2013, 06:32:11 pm
The US, I presume, army, does that with their vehicles, but not tanks as far as i know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 03, 2013, 07:03:48 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on May 03, 2013, 06:32:11 pm
The US, I presume, army, does that with their vehicles, but not tanks as far as i know.
Certainly not the Abrams. But you might be able to do the trick I did with something along the lines of a Sheridan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M551_Sheridan), as well as many other things that are not tanks. And of course, those things are made to be parachuted in more sane fashion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 03, 2013, 07:07:26 pm
I remember seeing a Soviet designed tank that was meant to be towed be towed by another plane, and then was supposed to glide down to it's target. 
Here it is- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 03, 2013, 07:11:20 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 03, 2013, 07:07:26 pm
I remember seeing a Soviet designed tank that was meant to be towed be towed by another plane, and then was supposed to glide down to it's target. 
Here it is- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40
Not to be nitpicky, but technically it's a glider that you strap on to a tank. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 03, 2013, 07:12:42 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 03, 2013, 07:11:20 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 03, 2013, 07:07:26 pm
I remember seeing a Soviet designed tank that was meant to be towed be towed by another plane, and then was supposed to glide down to it's target. 
Here it is- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40
Not to be nitpicky, but technically it's a glider that you strap on to a tank. :P
I found the link after I wrote up the first part of the post.  All I remembered was that there was a tank, it was supposed to glide, and it failed. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 03, 2013, 10:31:04 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 03, 2013, 07:03:48 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on May 03, 2013, 06:32:11 pm
The US, I presume, army, does that with their vehicles, but not tanks as far as i know.
Certainly not the Abrams. But you might be able to do the trick I did with something along the lines of a Sheridan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M551_Sheridan), as well as many other things that are not tanks. And of course, those things are made to be parachuted in more sane fashion.
You're pretty much dead on. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp9eJEoMpQ) The C130 Hercules (pretty sure that's the plane in the video) can't fit an Abrams inside it (just a little too wide) and couldn't take off if you did manage to get it in (Abrams is over 3x its maximum payload weight).

Now I want to go try to LAPES a rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 04, 2013, 08:40:29 am
So, someone carrier guy made a rotational habitat which makes Kerbals experience artificial gravity. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXKNvZoZXd4)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 04, 2013, 10:17:46 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 04, 2013, 08:40:29 am
So, someone carrier guy made a rotational habitat which makes Kerbals experience artificial gravity. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXKNvZoZXd4)
A few people have tried this. It doesn't 'really' provide artificial gravity because the game's physics engine doesn't recognize the centripetal force as gravity so they still can't walk around on the surface.

Still, very cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 04, 2013, 02:43:16 pm
I managed to land a small Kethane refinery in Antarctica. Half of it exploded because the landed gear gave out when I hit the ground, but the drills still functioned. After I turned them on to test if it worked, I realised that I had no idea if Antarctica even had Kethane deposits.

Is there a mod that allows Kethane mining anywhere that's compatible with version 18.2?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 04, 2013, 03:03:35 pm
You know you can map for kethane right :P?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 04, 2013, 03:24:58 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 04, 2013, 03:03:35 pm
You know you can map for kethane right :P?

You can, but landing a 23ton refinery on that single pixel of the Kethane map is a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 04, 2013, 03:36:58 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 04, 2013, 03:24:58 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 04, 2013, 03:03:35 pm
You know you can map for kethane right :P?

You can, but landing a 23ton refinery on that single pixel of the Kethane map is a pain in the ass.
The kethane deposits are actually rather large. I've never missed one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 04, 2013, 04:19:45 pm
Yeah, if you do a continuous scan of the ground, you will find they are typically dozens of miles across. For an ideal kethane map, put a satellite scanner in a polar orbit, and it will then scan across the entire planet as the planet rotates.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rhesusmacabre on May 05, 2013, 06:58:58 am
(http://i.imgur.com/yDW57pMs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/yDW57pM)
Rollin', rollin', rollin'...
(http://i.imgur.com/DY4RXh3s.png) (http://imgur.com/DY4RXh3)
Throttling down. (Anything over 60m/s resulted in carnage.)
(http://i.imgur.com/jdEcivWs.png) (http://imgur.com/jdEcivW)
Oh, right, the sea...
(http://i.imgur.com/SrV8MGts.png) (http://imgur.com/SrV8MGt)
Still going!
(http://i.imgur.com/cYkSEbDs.png) (http://imgur.com/cYkSEbD)
And relax. (It kept on oscillating like that for a few minutes before I got bored.)

It would probably have kept on skimming across the water if the engines hadn't been destroyed by hitting the surface. Maybe if they were closer to the centre...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 05, 2013, 08:47:37 am
Damn it, do you have any idea how much I've tried to do that? :L
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rhesusmacabre on May 05, 2013, 10:22:45 am
Heh, sorry. It was my first attempt too!

To be fair, I entirely expected it to collapse under its own weight or topple over straight away, or maybe just disintegrate as soon as it started moving. But what most surprised me was how it kept on going when it reached the water.

The more I play this game, the more it impresses me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 05, 2013, 10:47:15 am
Indeed. I tried this a while back, with limited success: the designs I made like that tended to disintegrate, topple (if they were monowheels), or just spin in place.


I have, however, hit upon an effective design- a sort of coil-spring-like set of plates, it's proven much more durable than anything else I've tried.. And as you say, Kerbal Paddlewheels are indeed a thing. They're hilariously drifty, though, but they work surprisingly well. Note to self: must test Damned Robotics-powered paddlewheel sometime.

(http://img.ie/images/2hkw4.png) (http://img.ie/)
(http://img.ie/images/rt1ld.png) (http://img.ie/)
(http://img.ie/images/rukiv.png) (http://img.ie/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 05, 2013, 12:59:56 pm
Would you like a double post?

Yes you would!
Test one, Rotatron Paddlewheels: Default Rotatrons are far too slow for this, really. Also, the testing supports my suspicion that KSP cannot model things as partially in water, physics-wise: either they're in water or they're not.
(http://img.ie/images/3mkbq.png) (http://img.ie/)

 Test Two, Rocket Paddlewheels: Sitting low in the water appears to be a vital component to Paddlewheel success. It also seems to help with the bouncing. And there is a lot of bouncing.
(http://img.ie/images/oqcyr.png) (http://img.ie/)

Next step: Bigger paddlewheels! Also, either modded Rotatron or modded engine, because reasons.
(I already did this, but I've thrown enough pictures around for a few hours, so. :P ))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 05, 2013, 01:43:07 pm
Finally got my rocket assisted takeoff plane to kindof work.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The biggest problems are the two seconds after release from the takeoff vehicle.  When separating, you can't immediately put your nose up, as then the back of the plane will smash into the rocket.  If you wait too long, then you will smash into the ground.  If you go to fast when you separate, then the hole plane spins out of control.  Go to slow, and you simply won't take off. 
Does anyone have any tips on how to have a plane that is stable in flight?  Mine will either flip out immidiatly, or be fine for a long time then start spinning for no reason. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 05, 2013, 01:51:44 pm
Why don't you attach the plane at an angle, so it will be nose up on separation?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 05, 2013, 02:32:29 pm
Quote from: ank on May 05, 2013, 01:51:44 pm
Why don't you attach the plane at an angle, so it will be nose up on separation?
How would I do that? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 05, 2013, 02:38:45 pm
Shift + S or W when attaching the rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 05, 2013, 03:19:36 pm
Found an even better solution, along with one that solves some of my flight issues.  And is more awesome.
I expanded the wing structure, and instead of having the rocket sled attached to the fuselage, I attached it to the wings.  THis solved all my problems, and only created one. I only have to be slightly careful when seperating, it doesn't do any insane flips, and I double the amount of rockets.  Only downside is that you have to almost constantly hold down the S key to keep it from trying to flip due to the air intakes
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 05, 2013, 08:11:24 pm
Parachutes are great for dropping spent boosters in atmosphere. Just have them deploy at the same time as the boosters are decoupled and they'll yank them away from the rest of the craft.

It looks like there should be room under your jet for 2 more intakes to equalize the top/bottom drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 05, 2013, 08:19:43 pm
Quote from: Leonon on May 05, 2013, 08:11:24 pm
Parachutes are great for dropping spent boosters in atmosphere. Just have them deploy at the same time as the boosters are decoupled and they'll yank them away from the rest of the craft.

It looks like there should be room under your jet for 2 more intakes to equalize the top/bottom drag.
Already put those extra two intakes there.  Plane is a bit more unresponsive, but at least it's not trying to constantly flip over now.  Didn't think of attaching parachutes to the booster thou. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 05, 2013, 11:55:03 pm
Speaking of unresponsive planes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Have a Kerbalized Focke-Wulf Triebflugeljager  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FW_Triebflugeljager) (try saying THAT three times fast, I dare you).

This design was the culmination of long and arduous minutes messing around with rotating things for the totally unrelated purpose of marine propulsion. Oh, and me making a modded wing in frustration. Rest assured, it's still terrible! :D As a matter of fact, this design failed due to the ramjets providing insufficient thrust at any reasonable (read: safe) rotation speed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A more conventional (?!?) jet design worked, but is basically unable to pitch or yaw for some strange reason. Rolls fine though. Sadly, this problem has not yet been fixed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Canards didn't help much.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Did I mention that the ball bearing likes to break if you push the rotor too fast?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And for some reason, even though it's stuck in vertical when flying up in heli-mode, when it goes down on nose-mounted parachutes it somehow begins to spin like crazy. What is this, I don't even.



In conclusion: WHY DOESN'T IT WANT TO MANEUVER. Aside from that, everything else is fixable. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on May 06, 2013, 01:28:28 am
Try actually angling the engines, instead of just having them sideways, so they provide some lift independent of the wings spinning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 06, 2013, 01:35:59 am
You mean angling them forwards for more thrust?
That's actually what the Germans tried to do... it failed for them, but maybe it will work for KSP.

Also, there seems to be a suspicious lack of struts.
I distrust anything that is not made of at least 20% strutmetal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 06, 2013, 03:01:06 am
If you could somehow counteract the torque forces of the propeller, maybe by having another propeller spinning in the opposite direction, it might not spin out like that when you start going forwards?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 06, 2013, 09:13:06 am
For each force applied there is a counter-force, so if you have one giant propeller spinning on one side it will send a counter-spin force on your fuselage, the way to counteract would be to had a counter-spin giant propeler.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 06, 2013, 09:20:51 am
Exactly what um thinking
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 06, 2013, 12:34:11 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on May 06, 2013, 03:01:06 am
If you could somehow counteract the torque forces of the propeller, maybe by having another propeller spinning in the opposite direction, it might not spin out like that when you start going forwards?
It doesn't, because the propeller isn't connected to the fuselage like that. Um... how do I explain the physics of this... The rotor is spinning, but it's spinning because of the jets that are on the rotor, not because of anything attached to the fuselage. Since the torque to spin it doesn't come from the fuselage, the fuselage doesn't tend to spin in the opposite direction. Does that make sense?


Quote from: Mini on May 06, 2013, 01:28:28 am
Try actually angling the engines, instead of just having them sideways, so they provide some lift independent of the wings spinning.

Oh, I have enough lift, I feel. I might do it anyways, but more to see if I can use the gimbal to solve my lack of control.
Quote from: ank on May 06, 2013, 01:35:59 am
Also, there seems to be a suspicious lack of struts.
I distrust anything that is not made of at least 20% strutmetal.

There are struts! Connecting the two fuselage sections.

As you may have noticed, it's not enough, it seems. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 06, 2013, 03:27:52 pm
Then the fuselage should rotate in the same direction of the propeller, due to friction on the joint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 06, 2013, 03:38:07 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on May 06, 2013, 03:27:52 pm
Then the fuselage should rotate in the same direction of the propeller, due to friction on the joint.
Left to its own devices, it would do so eventually. Fortunately, we have control surfaces and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2013, 06:12:39 pm
has anyone read the upate on .20 post? it now turns out that you have to be logged in to read dev posts  :-X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2013, 06:13:06 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2013, 06:12:39 pm
has anyone read the upate on .20 post? it now turns out that you have to be logged in to read dev posts  :-X
Link?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 06, 2013, 06:15:48 pm
6.20 was a bug fix patch, so I am not sure what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2013, 06:30:51 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2013, 06:13:06 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2013, 06:12:39 pm
has anyone read the upate on .20 post? it now turns out that you have to be logged in to read dev posts  :-X
Link?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content.php/164-Update-on-the-0-20-Update
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 07:18:56 pm
I'm disappointed that Resources won't be making it in the next update, but stability issues were probably more important. I'm a little surprised that they're making mod support such an integral part of early development, but it's still pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 06, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 07:18:56 pm
I'm disappointed that Resources won't be making it in the next update, but stability issues were probably more important. I'm a little surprised that they're making mod support such an integral part of early development, but it's still pretty awesome.

Mods make up a large part of the content out there right now. The modpack I'm using is so big it now takes long enough to load the game that I can watch two or three youtube videos before being able to play.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 06, 2013, 07:59:24 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 06, 2013, 03:38:07 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on May 06, 2013, 03:27:52 pm
Then the fuselage should rotate in the same direction of the propeller, due to friction on the joint.
Left to its own devices, it would do so eventually. Fortunately, we have control surfaces and such.
Control surface add drag and lift wich starts to affect the ship once a force big enough is supplied ( speed in this case ). But oh well its a game isnt it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 08:14:59 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 06, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Mods make up a large part of the content out there right now. The modpack I'm using is so big it now takes long enough to load the game that I can watch two or three youtube videos before being able to play.

Holy crap. I hope you have enough RAM for all that stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mookzen on May 06, 2013, 09:03:43 pm
I really wish they would focus on redoing the aerodynamics, fuck the void its all about the atmo...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 06, 2013, 10:14:58 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 08:14:59 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 06, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Mods make up a large part of the content out there right now. The modpack I'm using is so big it now takes long enough to load the game that I can watch two or three youtube videos before being able to play.

Holy crap. I hope you have enough RAM for all that stuff.

My 4gb is woefully inadequate. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on May 07, 2013, 06:24:34 am
Quote from: Azated on May 06, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 07:18:56 pm
I'm disappointed that Resources won't be making it in the next update, but stability issues were probably more important. I'm a little surprised that they're making mod support such an integral part of early development, but it's still pretty awesome.

Mods make up a large part of the content out there right now. The modpack I'm using is so big it now takes long enough to load the game that I can watch two or three youtube videos before being able to play.

Haven't they hired 2-3 of the major mod makers as full time developers as well? That might have something to do with the focus on mod support too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 07, 2013, 07:08:47 am
Yeah, all the new and improved models are made by a previous madder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2013, 07:15:02 am
Quote from: Japa on May 07, 2013, 07:08:47 am
Yeah, all the new and improved models are made by a previous madder.
Henceforth all modders will be known as madders. It is the best name.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 07, 2013, 02:59:28 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 06, 2013, 10:14:58 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on May 06, 2013, 08:14:59 pm
Quote from: Azated on May 06, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
Mods make up a large part of the content out there right now. The modpack I'm using is so big it now takes long enough to load the game that I can watch two or three youtube videos before being able to play.

Holy crap. I hope you have enough RAM for all that stuff.

My 4gb is woefully inadequate. :D

I love my 8 gig and my SSD, never take to long to load anything and on the off-chance computer need my pagefile, well SSD.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 07, 2013, 04:37:48 pm
SSD?
I think your in the wrong thread... no space sleep disorder here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 07, 2013, 04:45:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 07, 2013, 04:37:48 pm
SSD?
I think your in the wrong thread... no space sleep disorder here.
SSD = Solid-State Drive. It's a kind of hard drive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2013, 04:46:52 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 07, 2013, 04:45:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 07, 2013, 04:37:48 pm
SSD?
I think your in the wrong thread... no space sleep disorder here.
SSD = Solid-State Drive. It's a kind of hard drive.
Woosh the joke goes, right over the head.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 07, 2013, 04:56:24 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2013, 04:46:52 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 07, 2013, 04:45:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 07, 2013, 04:37:48 pm
SSD?
I think your in the wrong thread... no space sleep disorder here.
SSD = Solid-State Drive. It's a kind of hard drive.
Woosh the joke goes, right over the head.
Or perhaps you shouldn't assume that everyone knows what SSDs are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 08, 2013, 10:28:35 am
On a totally unrelated note to the recent discussion, going back instead to the plane of spinny-ness, it occurs to me that having a large, rapidly rotating mass concentrated largely at the outside (I think) miiiight not be good for my maneuverability. In many circles, that's called a gyroscope.

Or more likely, the game just is like lolphysics.

Hmm... I wish I had a streamline rotating-fuselage-piece thing (something that attached to the top and bottom rigidly, but stuff on the sides rotates freely), so I  could, say, try this with Ferram Aerospace or something, since my problems might well be lolaerodynamics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 08, 2013, 10:58:52 am
The whole idea is silly, but that's a reason alone to try and build it in KSP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 08, 2013, 01:53:45 pm
Oh... woops.
never heard of a solid state drive called a SSD and i have been playing FAR toomuch SS13 recently...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 09, 2013, 05:42:44 pm
I managed to get a spacedock into orbit, complete with a nuclear reactor, excessive amounts of docking ports, and spare tanks for all kinds of fuel. It even has enough storage for 600 spare parts.

The original design was much heavier and had kethane refining facilities on board, but it was far too heavy to get off Kerbin. It was going to Minmus anyway, so it'd probably be more efficient to just assemble a kethane mine there and launch the refined product up to the station.

So we have Solar, Lunar (or Munar) and Kerbal orbits. What is Minmus? Minmul?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 09, 2013, 05:49:00 pm
Got a refueling 'shuttle' on the Mun, that can refuel around 1 large double tank worth of fuel. Perhaps a little more, but I want to be sure I have enough fuel left to land on Mun again :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 10, 2013, 02:09:29 am
What is most economic? Transporting kethane to an orbital refining plant, or refining on the surface and transporting refined products to orbit?

It will mostly be for spareparts production, for my independent Joolian colony.

EDIT: will ships spawn with crew and fuel and is there an option for spawning at a drydock without fuel?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 10, 2013, 02:18:27 am
Converting on the surface means that you only need to move a few small tanks, instead of several large ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 10, 2013, 05:32:16 am
Honestly it almost doesn't matter where you convert it, because the mass doesn't change much. When making spareparts from kethane you lose something like 2% of the mass if you're using the config I made and posted, so you still have to move that mass to its final destination no matter where it was created. 1000 Kethane = 1 weight unit, 1 spareparts = 1 weight unit. 1000 kethane = like 0.98 spareparts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 10, 2013, 05:55:22 am
Quote from: DrPoo on May 10, 2013, 02:09:29 am
EDIT: will ships spawn with crew and fuel and is there an option for spawning at a drydock without fuel?
The only option I'm aware of is to mod in empty fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 10, 2013, 06:26:41 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on May 10, 2013, 05:55:22 am
Quote from: DrPoo on May 10, 2013, 02:09:29 am
EDIT: will ships spawn with crew and fuel and is there an option for spawning at a drydock without fuel?
The only option I'm aware of is to mod in empty fuel tanks.
There is even an 'empty stock fuel tanks' mod on the spaceport, though its an easy easy thing to do yourself. Just copy the fuel tank part and in the config change the amount of fuel to 0/1000 or whatever
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 10, 2013, 07:58:57 am
Are there any mods for functioning bases besides Kethane? If I'm going all the way to land on wherever, I'd like to have something to do there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 10, 2013, 08:25:23 am
KAS has fuel lines for easy practical refueling (basically docking). you can also attach magnets and hook to them and make cranes and all sorts of other fun stuff ^-^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GMichelIV on May 10, 2013, 08:30:56 am
Quote from: Azated on May 09, 2013, 05:42:44 pm
I managed to get a spacedock into orbit, complete with a nuclear reactor, excessive amounts of docking ports, and spare tanks for all kinds of fuel. It even has enough storage for 600 spare parts.

Pictures!? Want to share the .craft? That sounds SIIIIIIIIIICK!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 10, 2013, 12:31:37 pm
Spoiler: ion engine cannot into space (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 10, 2013, 12:49:21 pm
Somehow that sounds like the summary of a Kerbal's rocket science thesis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 10, 2013, 01:11:07 pm
I can think of numerous reasons why that would not work.
:P

But ion engine apparently  can into space, albeit with some help.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr8KOst68cQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 10, 2013, 02:27:57 pm
Quote from: GMichelIV on May 10, 2013, 08:30:56 am
Quote from: Azated on May 09, 2013, 05:42:44 pm
I managed to get a spacedock into orbit, complete with a nuclear reactor, excessive amounts of docking ports, and spare tanks for all kinds of fuel. It even has enough storage for 600 spare parts.

Pictures!? Want to share the .craft? That sounds SIIIIIIIIIICK!

Here's a gallery (http://imgur.com/a/RXpAb) of screenshots. The engine on the back is designed to be decoupled once I'm in orbit around Minmus. The four solar panels are not really necessary because the nuclear reactor produces insane amounts of power, but every space station needs solar panels.

I'm still on version 0.18.2 because that's where all my mods work best. I tried upgrading to 0.19.1, but some funky stuff started happening. The pack (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0rq0lppblsffj2/Kerbal_Station_12.zip) I'm using came from the Bay12 Community Station (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121837.msg3959177#msg3959177) thread if you're interested.

Here's the .craft (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qzq373dyoq9n3v/Minmal%20Orbiter%20KSS-D.craft), too. It's a little finicky and doesn't have mechjeb due to lag issues, but it should work well enough to get into orbit around Kerbin or even the Mun. It has a few action groups you can use; 1 is solar panels, 2 is the reactor, 3 is the communications equipment, and 4 is the kethane detector.

Spoiler: This is what it took to get into orbit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 11, 2013, 10:11:44 am
Speaking of silly ways to space...
I tried to use KAS to make a space-tether-thing, only to discover that the the stuff refuses to go beyond 50m even when I edit the .cfg file. Grah!

It's not even long enough for a decent aerostat, I tell you. :L

EDIT: Well, if you push on it hard enough and mash the "instant cable stretch" button, you can get it farther. This... has odd behavior, though, so I don't really recommend it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on May 12, 2013, 12:05:13 pm
Why not connect a winch to a hook?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 12, 2013, 04:06:49 pm
Quote from: Supercharazad on May 12, 2013, 12:05:13 pm
Why not connect a winch to a hook?
Forget connecting to something, I'm not even past having a long enough cable. :P
In fact, further research has revealed that Gilly is the only place in the Kerbol system where this could possibly work, given the limitations of Romfarer physics distance. Also typing on phone is hard :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 13, 2013, 10:59:01 am
Im trying to organize my Space Program better.
Im starting to record my launches in a log, with mission number, types. Another is a database of current missions. Im also structuring my engineering and R&D where i describe what a project is about and what its exact purpose is.

Some of my current projects include developing better equipment for EVAing astronauts, improving reusability and waste management. Design theory on independent colonies. Cloning Kerbals. Basic Defense systems. The construction of Kerbal city and the polar observation fsccilities, mobile launching platforms. You name it. Its all going through one bereucracy laden funnel. Oh, i forgot to mention Center related assets(tow truck, crew bus, air lift)

Organizing!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 09:28:53 am
Artificl Gravity, and this time it actually works :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QuLgl2vKis)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 09:28:53 am
Artificl Gravity, and this time it actually works :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QuLgl2vKis)
Works only for rovers I guess?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 14, 2013, 03:39:00 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 09:28:53 am
Artificl Gravity, and this time it actually works :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QuLgl2vKis)
Works only for rovers I guess?

EVA Kerbals cant balance to those forces yet, only hardcoded graviational forces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 03:44:51 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on May 14, 2013, 03:39:00 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 09:28:53 am
Artificl Gravity, and this time it actually works :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QuLgl2vKis)
Works only for rovers I guess?

EVA Kerbals cant balance to those forces yet, only hardcoded graviational forces.

Both types of gravity really are the same. Kerbals just don't realize it and won't properly stand on the platform and can thus not work. Other than that it works perfectly for Kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2013, 03:50:38 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 03:44:51 pm
Quote from: DrPoo on May 14, 2013, 03:39:00 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 14, 2013, 09:28:53 am
Artificl Gravity, and this time it actually works :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QuLgl2vKis)
Works only for rovers I guess?

EVA Kerbals cant balance to those forces yet, only hardcoded graviational forces.

Both types of gravity really are the same. Kerbals just don't realize it and won't properly stand on the platform and can thus not work. Other than that it works perfectly for Kerbals.
To the game engine, the spinning constructions aren't true gravity and so it doesn't work correctly for kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on May 14, 2013, 11:52:48 pm
AMAZING!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on May 15, 2013, 12:15:35 am
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)

This actually worked surprisingly well once I got it to stop exploding on the launchpad (parts of it were spawning inside the launch tower).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 15, 2013, 01:15:51 am
If you have a launch tower, you're playing the wrong version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 15, 2013, 06:48:50 am
Quote from: Japa on May 15, 2013, 01:15:51 am
If you have a launch tower, you're playing the wrong version.
Considering the amount of parts he has, it might be the demo version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 15, 2013, 06:54:36 am
My point still stands :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 15, 2013, 10:32:50 am
I just downloaded Crew manifest mod.
Still want to build that kerbal crew city/ barracks thing. With a reuseable training rocket, a centrifuge, parachute training field and so on.

Generally, making that would help me do research for my planetside Jool colonies, mainly managerial stuff but also design of habitats, modularity and construction vehicles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 16, 2013, 06:41:15 pm
Anyone see the new ejection seats? And does anyone know when the next update is coming out?
For those who are curious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rPz4zzaECk)  Water also seems to be a lot more detailed.  You can see it dropping off.


Also, unrelated-
 SPACE PIRATES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPRxyv3CED8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 16, 2013, 07:55:05 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 16, 2013, 06:41:15 pm
Anyone see the new ejection seats? And does anyone know when the next update is coming out?
For those who are curious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rPz4zzaECk)  Water also seems to be a lot more detailed.  You can see it dropping off.


Also, unrelated-
 SPACE PIRATES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPRxyv3CED8)

It seems odd that the camera stayed focused on the plane, though. Which makes me suspect that the seat is not really controlling it. :L
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on May 17, 2013, 12:34:53 am
Quote from: Twi on May 16, 2013, 07:55:05 pm
It seems odd that the camera stayed focused on the plane, though. Which makes me suspect that the seat is not really controlling it. :L
I'd imagine that it did that because the core part of the craft was a part in the body of the plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 18, 2013, 06:02:33 am
Recently the forums got wiped, apparently, and the Toggleable ASAS mod along with the Larger Ion Engines etc mod seem to have disappeared. And I cannot ever remember which mod was the one with winches. :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 18, 2013, 06:13:08 am
You mean the Kerbal Attachment System?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2013, 07:40:26 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on May 18, 2013, 06:02:33 am
Recently the forums got wiped, apparently, and the Toggleable ASAS mod along with the Larger Ion Engines etc mod seem to have disappeared. And I cannot ever remember which mod was the one with winches. :c
http://kerbalspaceport.com/toggle-capable-asas/
http://kerbalspaceport.com/0-18-ion-engine-pack/
http://kerbalspaceport.com/0-18-2-kas-kerbal-attachment-system-v0-1/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 18, 2013, 07:48:36 am
Oh yay, thanks. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2013, 08:06:53 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on May 18, 2013, 07:48:36 am
Oh yay, thanks. XD
Any time
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 18, 2013, 12:45:37 pm
Meanwhile, I have screwed around with a meant-to-be-Deadly-Reentry-and-Ferram-Aerospace-compatible giant cargo vehicle of bringing hugethings to Kerbin. It's... amusing. Think a MASSIVE Apollo-style capsule, only the entire conical part opens up from the top (on a related note, Damned Robotics Doorhinges apparently hate me). And has inflatable parachutes on it, because why not. It also looks incredibly rough and ugly.

Given, however, that I managed to smash the thing at 50-ish m/s into the ground with nothing but a few panels falling off (you couldn't even tell from looking at it, it just happened to slide around and reveal the damage), I'm not entirely sure I need that much braking. XD

It's really laggy though, due to SO MANY PANELS. I tried to make a smaller version, only to have the heatshield section flip the fuck out for whatever reason. :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on May 22, 2013, 01:57:27 am
Screenshot!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 22, 2013, 08:38:53 am
Here (http://img.ie/816es.png) you (http://img.ie/4y37s.png)  go. (http://img.ie/e81m7.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on May 22, 2013, 08:53:17 am
 :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 22, 2013, 09:57:06 am
Quote from: da_nang on May 22, 2013, 08:53:17 am
:o

:3

Sadly, the connection of the top to the bottom tends to get in the way, so you can't use it for REALLY huge cargo. But you could use it for lots of little cargo. Like Kerbal Drop Marines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on May 22, 2013, 03:57:51 pm
Ahoy, thar be patches released.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/30553-KSP-0-20-Released
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2013, 04:01:57 pm
Quote from: Tobel on May 22, 2013, 03:57:51 pm
Ahoy, thar be patches released.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/30553-KSP-0-20-Released
Love it! The new cupola is awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 22, 2013, 04:05:31 pm
Quote from: Tobel on May 22, 2013, 03:57:51 pm
Ahoy, thar be patches released.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/30553-KSP-0-20-Released
Sounds pretty awesome!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 22, 2013, 04:08:10 pm
Quote
The Editor now allows deleting or replacing the first part of your ship.
<33333333
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scelly9 on May 22, 2013, 04:08:52 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on May 22, 2013, 04:08:10 pm
Quote
The Editor now allows deleting or replacing the first part of your ship.
<33333333
Thank god.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2013, 04:12:19 pm
~~
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2013, 05:19:53 pm
Well... mechjeb works fine in .20
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 22, 2013, 11:14:59 pm
Low slung Kerbal dude needs a buddy to fill that empty seat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on May 23, 2013, 01:20:30 am
I was excited to see the new copula, but it seems to be an outwards facing thing. Hopefully in the future there will be a large dome thing with a spinny chair so you can see around 360 degrees and the dome is over the head instead of in front of you. That would be awesome.
The external seats look pretty promising, I've been wanting to do manned rovers but putting a tiny crew pod with a rollcage isn't very uhm.... it doesn't work as well =p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on May 23, 2013, 01:54:46 am
Spoiler: Kerbalnaut Training is...intense... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 23, 2013, 02:37:46 am
Quote
The Editor no longer requires you to start with a command pod when building a ship.
The Editor now allows deleting or replacing the first part of your ship.

YES!


EDIT: If I transfer to steam, will I still have the option of downloading from the website?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 23, 2013, 03:25:06 am
They specifically say that you don't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 03:26:21 am
Indeed. It's either really bad offline service (Steam) or terrible download rate (KSP).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 23, 2013, 03:59:20 am
So I tried to make a drop pod that could deorbit itself and ended up with this (http://imgur.com/a/SHDRu)

(http://i.imgur.com/OROM7xCs.png]) (http://i.imgur.com/OROM7xC.png)

Jeb loves his new toy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 04:30:38 am
Damn I want that.

I still have to get something to another planet though ;_;.
I mean, I managed to get a Kerbal on Duna (but he had no fuel left) and a satellite to Eve (Wasn't supposed to land >.>). A successful mission seems to be beyond my capabilities so far :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on May 23, 2013, 04:59:16 am
Quote from: Rilder on May 23, 2013, 01:54:46 am
Spoiler: Kerbalnaut Training is...intense... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You know what to do (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on May 23, 2013, 05:01:23 am
God I can't wait to play this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 23, 2013, 05:30:32 am
I guess I could transfer to steam, and get my modding needs met with torrent download.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:38:15 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Yep, you just have to manually change a few things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 23, 2013, 05:40:54 am
What about Major Bill? (http://imgur.com/a/uBVLG)

(http://i.imgur.com/yz4Alx3s.jpg]) (http://i.imgur.com/yz4Alx3.jpg)

I tried out the drop pod idea again with a little ejector seat attached to the rocket, turns out he just fell out of his seat. I didn't get a screenshot of it but right before he hit the water Bill was smiling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mistercheif on May 23, 2013, 05:51:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:38:15 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Yep, you just have to manually change a few things.
Do you?  I didn't have to change anything...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:53:46 am
Quote from: Mistercheif on May 23, 2013, 05:51:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:38:15 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Yep, you just have to manually change a few things.
Do you?  I didn't have to change anything...
Well you're /supposed/ to I guess. Put them in gamedata in their own folder, and put a PART {} wrapper around each part config file.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:58:10 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:53:46 am
Quote from: Mistercheif on May 23, 2013, 05:51:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:38:15 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Yep, you just have to manually change a few things.
Do you?  I didn't have to change anything...
Well you're /supposed/ to I guess. Put them in gamedata in their own folder, and put a PART {} wrapper around each part config file.
Why would you do that? Mods work fine without doing that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 06:02:38 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:58:10 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:53:46 am
Quote from: Mistercheif on May 23, 2013, 05:51:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 05:38:15 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2013, 05:32:05 am
Why? Mods still work.
Yep, you just have to manually change a few things.
Do you?  I didn't have to change anything...
Well you're /supposed/ to I guess. Put them in gamedata in their own folder, and put a PART {} wrapper around each part config file.
Why would you do that? Mods work fine without doing that.
Because that is the new file structure. The part wrapper tells the engine it is loading a part and might cause issues without it. Putting them in their own folder in gamadata keeps them nicely organized.

Optional for now but modders will be adjusting their mods to use it and I imagine it won't stay optional for long.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 23, 2013, 12:57:24 pm
More pictures. (http://imgur.com/a/ZuLds) This time it's of Johnory Kerman riding a SSTO into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 23, 2013, 01:24:37 pm
Quote from: da_nang on May 23, 2013, 04:59:16 am
Quote from: Rilder on May 23, 2013, 01:54:46 am
Spoiler: Kerbalnaut Training is...intense... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You know what to do (click to show/hide)
I remember in armageddon movie the 1998 one where one of the miner was doing rodeo on the bomb on the asteroid... i tried to find that movie clip but could not... dammit :(. Seems quite appropriated to your pic hehehe
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 01:28:46 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on May 23, 2013, 01:24:37 pm
Quote from: da_nang on May 23, 2013, 04:59:16 am
Quote from: Rilder on May 23, 2013, 01:54:46 am
Spoiler: Kerbalnaut Training is...intense... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You know what to do (click to show/hide)
I remember in armageddon movie the 1998 one where one of the miner was doing rodeo on the bomb on the asteroid... i tried to find that movie clip but could not... dammit :(. Seems quite appropriated to your pic hehehe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9YYbrZ4whY
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 23, 2013, 01:35:09 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 01:28:46 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on May 23, 2013, 01:24:37 pm
Quote from: da_nang on May 23, 2013, 04:59:16 am
Quote from: Rilder on May 23, 2013, 01:54:46 am
Spoiler: Kerbalnaut Training is...intense... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You know what to do (click to show/hide)
I remember in armageddon movie the 1998 one where one of the miner was doing rodeo on the bomb on the asteroid... i tried to find that movie clip but could not... dammit :(. Seems quite appropriated to your pic hehehe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9YYbrZ4whY
YEAH!!!! that was it :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 23, 2013, 04:03:57 pm
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the questionable sequel to the Firebug, the Firebat!

Featuring:

-KSP 0.20 for the first time!
-MechJeb 2.0 also for the first time!
-Pretty much the same a slightly smaller amount of intake abuse, but now with part clipping!
-Giant tail booms!
-Too many control surfaces!
-SSTO capability via ion engines!
-Questionable solar panel placement! (for equatorial orbits, anyways)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 23, 2013, 05:16:52 pm
Nice bird!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 07:35:47 pm
My take on an apollo style mission:

http://imgur.com/a/8OkY1#0

I'll add in comments later on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 23, 2013, 08:09:44 pm
I tried to recreate the opening to Heavy Metal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_KXgFpguE0). It went about as well as everything else in KSP (http://imgur.com/a/0da8L).

(http://i.imgur.com/ZDuwlhys.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ZDuwlhy.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DrPoo on May 24, 2013, 04:43:58 am
Quote from: Leonon on May 23, 2013, 08:09:44 pm
I tried to recreate the opening to Heavy Metal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_KXgFpguE0). It went about as well as everything else in KSP (http://imgur.com/a/0da8L).

(http://i.imgur.com/ZDuwlhys.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ZDuwlhy.png)

hehehehehe :V

IM GONNA DO THAT! AND IM GONNA DO THAT BETTER!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 24, 2013, 04:45:55 am
(http://i.imgur.com/d6e4zEfs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/d6e4zEf)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 24, 2013, 09:47:06 am
Messing around with hybrid engines from the corresponding mod, I find it amusing how little xenon gas they use- probably 10+ tons of LFO for one little xenon tank that masses less than half a ton. I tried using them in a larger, cargo-carrying varient of the Firebat (currently on hold due to bugs and me wanting to make things look good) and I couldn't fit enough LFO to max out the delta-v. It annoys my OCD significantly. Then again, I suppose you're meant to use them in conjunction with regular old ion engines for hard maneuvers that you can't really do with engines that can't lift their own weight. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 24, 2013, 11:10:56 am
I'm thinking of making a modded "compression" air intake which produces liquid oxy instead of air. Then you use it with jet fuel and normal rockets, like the experimental mixed-input scram-rockets or ram-rockets are whatever they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 24, 2013, 11:23:03 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 24, 2013, 11:10:56 am
I'm thinking of making a modded "compression" air intake which produces liquid oxy instead of air. Then you use it with jet fuel and normal rockets, like the experimental mixed-input scram-rockets or ram-rockets are whatever they are.

The Skylon pack already does that with the air intake. Of course, the SABRE engine is pretty overpowered in the ISP department already, so it's not like there isn't a place for such things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on May 25, 2013, 11:58:39 am
I'VE FINALLY DONE IT.

IT TOOK TOO DAMN LONG IN FAR TO MANY MEANINGS,

BUT IT IS DONE.

Spoiler: My first ever SUCCESFUL docking attempt. (click to show/hide)

The solar panel wing/power wing is what docked, the engine is a useful leftover from getting the core to space.

Also, there's supposed to be four solar panels, but apparently one broke off during one of the skirmishes.

WELP, 3 IS ENOUGH TO POWER THE STATION.

It's also nearly out of R.C.S. mono-propellent.

And there's also a chair on top of the power wing, for when kerbals eventually reach the station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on May 25, 2013, 05:23:59 pm
Derp, forgot fuel cross-feed capability to my radial tanks, and thus ran out of fuel when they were depleted by the engines of my space tug with no way to transfer fuel from the big central tank. There goes about an hour's work....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 25, 2013, 06:33:19 pm
Spoiler: It had to be done. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on May 25, 2013, 07:39:40 pm
....is it wrong for me to be laughing my ass off at that right now?  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2013, 08:13:19 pm
Does it actually fly well?

Does it have lasers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 25, 2013, 08:50:02 pm
Those are not Ion engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 25, 2013, 10:03:54 pm
Quote from: Leonon on May 25, 2013, 08:50:02 pm
Those are not Ion engines.
Note to self: get better computer. Get KSP installed on it. Learn to mod. Mod ion engines to provide way more thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 25, 2013, 10:31:26 pm
It's a single number :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2013, 11:57:24 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 25, 2013, 10:03:54 pm
Quote from: Leonon on May 25, 2013, 08:50:02 pm
Those are not Ion engines.
Note to self: get better computer. Get KSP installed on it. Learn to mod. Mod ion engines to provide way more thrust.
Yeah it's really not difficult. I could make you a super-powered Ion engine if you like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on May 26, 2013, 12:04:10 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2013, 11:57:24 pm
Quote from: Sirus on May 25, 2013, 10:03:54 pm
Quote from: Leonon on May 25, 2013, 08:50:02 pm
Those are not Ion engines.
Note to self: get better computer. Get KSP installed on it. Learn to mod. Mod ion engines to provide way more thrust.
Yeah it's really not difficult. I could make you a super-powered Ion engine if you like.
You folks seem to be skipping steps 1 and 2, unless you're willing to make a very generous donation :P

This thing can't run KSP. I tried.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 26, 2013, 02:36:32 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 07:35:47 pm
My take on an apollo style mission:

http://imgur.com/a/8OkY1#0

I'll add in comments later on.
Nice! Even the same setup with the lander and return vehicle.

Mine was far less authentic, and it had just the one guy, but it was one guy and two rovers. One of which broke.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSP020_Screens/screenshot1.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on May 26, 2013, 03:26:00 am
Good thing you brought two eh?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Spaghetti7 on May 26, 2013, 07:10:28 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 26, 2013, 02:36:32 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That rover's so cute! ^.^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on May 26, 2013, 07:34:05 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2013, 08:13:19 pm
Does it actually fly well?

What do you think?  ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Pyre on June 02, 2013, 09:44:38 pm
Quote from: tryrar on May 25, 2013, 05:23:59 pm
Derp, forgot fuel cross-feed capability to my radial tanks, and thus ran out of fuel when they were depleted by the engines of my space tug with no way to transfer fuel from the big central tank. There goes about an hour's work....

Right-click one tank, Alt+Right-click the other, transfer fuel, rejoice!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on June 03, 2013, 12:28:34 am
tried that. For some reason it wouldn't let me transfer fuel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on June 03, 2013, 02:37:33 am
There is ome mod that let you comtrol fuel flow very precisly and easily, i dont remeber the name, check on space port, it start with 3 letter V.something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on June 03, 2013, 07:15:29 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 26, 2013, 02:36:32 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2013, 07:35:47 pm
My take on an apollo style mission:

*snip*

I'll add in comments later on.
Nice! Even the same setup with the lander and return vehicle.

Mine was far less authentic, and it had just the one guy, but it was one guy and two rovers. One of which broke.
*snip*
I love that lander design, the veiw from the cockpit must be immense.

In unrelated news, I finaly have a proper spaceplane. It looks like hell, but at least it can get into orbit. Landing on the other hand? That's a little explodey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 06, 2013, 11:22:34 am
So, got myself KSP 0.20.2, the new release of B9 ( which is pretty amazing~),  and Mk4 Fuselage (which aside from a front door is pretty much the same as ever).

And then awesome things happened. Seriously.

Dark skies of evening,
when no other bird dares to take flight,
one alone remains all-seeing!

Silly poem aside, meet the Yatagarasu line of various light transports. Most of them don't actually work so well, but a few stand out.
(http://img.ie/images/zvzuo.png) (http://img.ie/)
The original certainly gets props for looking (http://img.ie/4w702.png) pretty (http://img.ie/786zb.png) amazing. (http://img.ie/lqws5.png)Sadly, it can't actually get off the ground very well, even when I put two more SABRES on the back of those other fuel tanks. It was supposed to be a SpaceShipOne style vehicle, doing suborbital hops and such for fun and profit. 

Several silly looking iterations and one switch from suborbital to STOL later...

(http://img.ie/images/9n4gc.png)
(http://img.ie/images/jzzob.png)
The Type D, besides being hilariously over-engined, has an unusual sort of cargo bay that I'd end up sticking with. Sadly, the Type D didn't actually take off in a short distance all that well.

Now, the next one, the Type E, is pretty amazing. It flies fairly well (albeit hilariously oversensitive in roll), and it actually takes off in a short distance. You can take off with the brakes on, even. The L part is kinda tricky, but pretty darn fun, and also fairly short. Besides, most planes can't land at about 10 m/s. (Reverse thrust is very helpful, just don't get it moving backwards, because then it flips the fuck out.)

(http://img.ie/images/yp088.png)
(http://img.ie/images/2ka7j.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 06, 2013, 03:39:33 pm
Wow. just...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 06, 2013, 04:08:43 pm
I love you too. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 06, 2013, 04:51:28 pm
I'm suing Twi for murdering my bandwidth with all those very large images :I
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 06, 2013, 04:53:27 pm
Quote from: Sirus on June 06, 2013, 04:51:28 pm
I'm suing Twi for murdering my bandwidth with all those very large images :I

Hey now, I cut down on the number of them just for you. >:C
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on June 06, 2013, 04:54:08 pm
Quote from: Twi on June 06, 2013, 04:53:27 pm
Quote from: Sirus on June 06, 2013, 04:51:28 pm
I'm suing Twi for murdering my bandwidth with all those very large images :I

Hey now, I cut down on the number of them just for you. >:C
Fine. I'll drop the charges :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: AlStar on June 06, 2013, 11:09:26 pm
Well, I've finally managed a milestone - it took three tries (the other two ships cratered,) but we've finally landed on the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's room to improve, but we'll take what we can get.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on June 06, 2013, 11:28:42 pm
Meanwhile, in crazy world:

(http://img.ie/fs08k.jpg)

Mods used:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on June 07, 2013, 12:00:10 am
@Alstar

What's the story about the landing legs? is that a self-righting-mechanism?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 07, 2013, 12:25:41 am
Quote from: ank on June 07, 2013, 12:00:10 am
@Alstar

What's the story about the landing legs? is that a self-righting-mechanism?
I think it's more of a "dignified landing mechanism".

Quote from: Andux on June 06, 2013, 11:28:42 pm
Meanwhile, in crazy world:
(http://img.ie/fs08k.jpg)
You know what that reminds me of? Cargo, the Quest for Gravity. Except without all the midgets.

Spoiler: Land, air, and sea... and midgets (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 07, 2013, 12:27:42 am
Kerbals, midgets.. same thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: AlStar on June 07, 2013, 07:50:05 am
Quote from: ank on June 07, 2013, 12:00:10 am
@Alstar

What's the story about the landing legs? is that a self-righting-mechanism?

I umm... kinda forgot to place a splitter on the last section of the ship. It still landed though!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 07, 2013, 07:51:39 am
Quote from: Japa on June 07, 2013, 12:27:42 am
Kerbals, midgets.. same thing.

Oh, hush, Japa. There's nothign crazy about linking two boats together.

I remember when I made a HUGE plane and then discovered it could land and take off from water. And it too had electric propellers. Heck, that thing could land and take off ANYWHERE.

I believe it was the Haruka Svetlana, many versions ago.

So yeah. I find your lack of crazyness disturbing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on June 07, 2013, 09:39:56 am
Can't get a damn space plane to work. Originally tried mounting a rocket to it, or rather mounting a plane under the rocket, and that didn't work. Tried building the plane around the rocket and I eventually managed to get off the ground, sometimes, but then I have no luck actually flying it far enough for the rocket to take over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on June 07, 2013, 12:47:48 pm
Try one of the default space planes first, just to get an idea for the bare minimum. They can only JUST get into orbit with a bit of fuel to get back and basically nothing left over if you miss the runway. Harvester posted, at one point on the official forums, some fairly detailed instructions on how to get one of them into orbit. It requires a very specific pattern of flight and heavy use of the jet engines to get a bunch of speed up while in the atmosphere. Then combined thrust from jet and rocket, and finally shutting off the jets and closing the intakes as you transition to rocket power only.

It sounds to me like you're overbuilding, which works fine for traditional rockets, but gets tougher if you expect to lift the thing with normal wings... not impossible, just requires careful design. I've seen some impressive space planes just on here which get to orbit with plenty of fuel to spare and they look like something that should have been built in an orbital dockyard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on June 07, 2013, 09:49:40 pm
Quote from: Twi on June 07, 2013, 07:51:39 am
I find your lack of crazyness disturbing.

(http://img.ie/wr564.jpg)

Better?

From left to right: Rover Norquist, and Rover Cleveland Mk3, Mk2, and Mk1. Cleveland Mk1 and Mk2 have since been scrapped, and Mk3 is currently being used to store and transport surplus Kerbals between missions. Rover Norquist was parked behind the vehicle assembly building, but, uh...

(http://img.ie/nb0tz.jpg)

(http://img.ie/iawi9.jpg)

Camfurt Kerman: Legendary Impractical Joker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 07, 2013, 11:00:26 pm
I made a stock rover-thing but i forgot RCS so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 08, 2013, 12:26:29 am
Quote from: Andux on June 07, 2013, 09:49:40 pm
Quote from: Twi on June 07, 2013, 07:51:39 am
I find your lack of crazyness disturbing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

GODDAMNIT YOU STOLE MY ROVER NAME. I'M GONNA SUE YOU.

Rover Cleveland will be avenged!

EDIT: BETTER QUOTATION EXCEPT LESS HORRIBLE AND WEIRD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 08, 2013, 02:26:56 am
Just as a note, but I assume that not everyone got unlimited internet*, so best spoiler pictures.


*I do, but that's not the point
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on June 08, 2013, 05:39:30 am
Just the amount of redundant information. that post takes up a third of the page without adding anything.
Also: spoilers!
Or better yet, link to a photo album so the bandwidth-challenged on our board can access it properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 08, 2013, 12:47:55 pm
Ignore my ineptitude!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 08, 2013, 12:48:20 pm
EDIT: WHAT IS HAPPENING

Goddamnit my brain forgot how to post
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 19, 2013, 07:14:05 am
Because the thread has been pretty quiet and I hadn't seen this mentioned, here is a fan made career mode mod with customizable mission packs.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34026-0-20-2-Mission-Controller-v0-6-%2806-13-2013%29-ALPHA (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34026-0-20-2-Mission-Controller-v0-6-%2806-13-2013%29-ALPHA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 19, 2013, 08:43:25 am
Nice.

Oh! i made a semi working jet! and i flew it to the island... and then Jeb got launched (i think it was a save error) a KM offshore underwater. Took around 10 min for him to surface. at 4x speed...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 21, 2013, 11:52:03 am
to all space plane makers:

check out this mod http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29862-0-20-Procedural-Dynamics-Procedural-Wing-0-4

enables resizable tweakable titillable wings

(video included in the link)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 21, 2013, 03:51:50 pm
Those procedural wings look really good, hopefully the aerodynamics on them are accurate.

Speaking of aerodynamics, I have been completely failing at making spaceplanes with Ferram Aerospace Research installed, or really any high altitude planes. They all seem to become too unstable at ~15000m, or start diving. The only success I have had was with a passenger jet-looking thing with the engines mounted below the centre of mass, which kept the nose pointed up.

I think I'm trying to make the plane too compact and not giving it enough lift. Maybe the procedural wing will help with that since I always have trouble putting together large wings from the stock parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 21, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
I keep trying to build aircraft with B9 and i can never seem to get off the ground. I think I need more power...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 21, 2013, 04:04:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on June 21, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
I keep trying to build aircraft with B9 and i can never seem to get off the ground. I think I need more power...
One helpful tip I found to get planes off the ground was to make the back landing gear slightly shorter than the front gear so you get a high angle of attack. You also want the back gear to be fairly close to the centre of mass so it acts as a pivot point, which makes it easier to pitch up from the ground.

Edit: Actually, you probably want to do one or the other but not both
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 21, 2013, 04:15:06 pm
I think I just needed more power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on June 21, 2013, 09:32:10 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on June 21, 2013, 03:51:50 pm
They all seem to become too unstable at ~15000m, or start diving. The only success I have had was with a passenger jet-looking thing with the engines mounted below the centre of mass, which kept the nose pointed up.

I have the same issue.  For some reason, as soon as I cut my air-breathing motors, I lose all control and flip all about.  That's the confusing thing, is it's not when they flare-out.  Even if I cut them and turn on the (gimbaled) rocket motors, it still freaks out.  Upper atmosphere kraken?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 21, 2013, 10:10:28 pm
Quote from: Rez on June 21, 2013, 09:32:10 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on June 21, 2013, 03:51:50 pm
They all seem to become too unstable at ~15000m, or start diving. The only success I have had was with a passenger jet-looking thing with the engines mounted below the centre of mass, which kept the nose pointed up.

I have the same issue.  For some reason, as soon as I cut my air-breathing motors, I lose all control and flip all about.  That's the confusing thing, is it's not when they flare-out.  Even if I cut them and turn on the (gimbaled) rocket motors, it still freaks out.  Upper atmosphere kraken?
Do you close the intakes as well? All of them? There is usually just enough drag in the upper atmosphere to make even a single missed intake a major problem.

Also, two other things. First, make sure that the rocket engines are actually centered against the plane's mass. Second, make sure that you either activate rockets with staging, or have the action group set up to toggle their gimbals as well - simply activating unstaged rocket motors with an action group tends to leave their gimbals inactive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on June 21, 2013, 10:31:12 pm
All intakes stayed open, but everything else you mentioned was being done.  I'll try changing that.

Edit:  Yep, that helped a ton.  Now I just need to get enough and balance my rocket thrusters such that they don't throw the SSTO into a wild somersault.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 21, 2013, 11:17:31 pm
It took a while, but I finally did it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 21, 2013, 11:31:54 pm
Excellent! I'm eagerly awaiting the promised resource system they're currently developing but Kethane is a decent substitute and good practice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
Feeling bored and expendable, anyone care to name a target and what to orbit around it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 21, 2013, 11:56:39 pm
Bop.

Holy hell is that thing a pain to get to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:59:22 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
Feeling bored and expendable, anyone care to name a target and what to orbit around it? (With Mechjeb)
Fixed.

Bop will be the target!  Now what do I do with Bop?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 22, 2013, 12:15:52 am
Up to you. I've gone and landed a massive rover onto it...

AND THERE'S NO FUEL LINE BETWEEN THE KETHANE CONVERTER AND THE ROCKET FUEL TANKS!!!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on June 22, 2013, 12:29:07 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
Feeling bored and expendable, anyone care to name a target and what to orbit around it?

Polaris, anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 22, 2013, 12:35:13 am
Quote from: Neonivek on June 22, 2013, 12:29:07 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
Feeling bored and expendable, anyone care to name a target and what to orbit around it?

Polaris, anything.
Google didn't reveal anything Polaris...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 22, 2013, 12:39:12 am
Wait... when did 0.20.2 come out? And why do I not have it yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 23, 2013, 05:37:55 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:59:22 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 21, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
Feeling bored and expendable, anyone care to name a target and what to orbit around it? (With Mechjeb)
Fixed.

Bop will be the target!  Now what do I do with Bop?
Asteroids.
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33713-20-Asteroids-!!!!

At least three, connected together to form a space station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on June 23, 2013, 05:45:23 pm
Kethane is absurdly fun. I'm going to add an empty Xenon tank and have a goal of returning a payload of "Space gas" to KSC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 25, 2013, 05:50:25 am
Amazing, someone commented that a few decouplers might have allowed some of those shots to go in.
The explosions were good though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 25, 2013, 06:08:24 am
What IS that?!
Well, besides cool and awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 08:16:04 am
Quote from: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
HAS KERBAL SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?
OR HAS KERBAL SCIENCE NOT GONE TOO FAR ENOUGH?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on June 25, 2013, 06:17:33 pm
I crash landed on the Mün... I like this lander though. It needs more fuel, but it's a good start.
Now to rescue the poor kerbals...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Luckily, the third one is still in orbit around the Mun and can get back to Kerbin, so there's that. The lander has no fuel left, so even if it was upright, I couldn't get it back to orbit, sadly.

On other news, my probe design is apparently able to reach pretty much anywhere. I got one to Duna with a lot of fuel to spare (about half of it).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another is around the Mun. I attempted Duna when I saw how much fuel it had left (more than 3/4). Munar slingshot is hard, but the nodes make so much easier.

And I docked two ships together! AND IT'S HORRIFYINGLY HARD.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mind you, I barely played the previous versions (The best I did was landing on the Mün without dying), and I downloaded the 0.20.2 less than 48 hours earlier. The docking was between my 5th and 6th things in orbit. (first was a test, second a cute satellite in polar orbit, 3rd and 4th a failed docking attempt, 5-6 the successful one, 7th a munar probe, 8th the Duna one, 9th a failed manned mun flight (not enough fuel, did not break orbit), 10th the crash-munlanding. Plus a dozen aborted flights.).

Featured: complexity.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 11:29:06 pm
Orbits are fun.  If you're on the same orbital plane as the Mun, your orbit is eccentric enough, and you're patient enough, you can get flung out of the kerbin orbit without using any fuel.  Gravity slingshots are incredible things.

If you've got Mechjeb 2 in, you can play with maneuver nodes.  Simply place a node, and change the thrust until you intercept an orbital body at any point (ie, the orbit of the craft will cross the orbit of the Mun at some point) then slide it forwards and back in time until it gets an encounter.  Using mechjeb, you can fine-tune the timing and thrust of the node to achieve some pretty exact slingshots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 26, 2013, 01:30:15 am
Yeah, I've used gravity slingshots to get rockets made to get to the mun all the way out of the solar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on June 26, 2013, 08:38:56 pm
Hey guys, been a while, but I've got a new game going, starting with my new Kethane probe:
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/609/sggk.jpg)

If you're wondering, I'm using Hexcans, a very nifty modular resource can pack, which makes for some very compact probes and ships.

This is the Taltrek-1 in orbit of Minmus:
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3168/3vaw.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 26, 2013, 09:53:06 pm
Well, it's not my first time landing on Duna, but it's the first time I've planted a flag on it:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 27, 2013, 02:24:44 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 08:16:04 am
Quote from: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
HAS KERBAL SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?
OR HAS KERBAL SCIENCE NOT GONE TOO FAR ENOUGH?!
Is there such a thing as too too far? We can always go too farther!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on June 27, 2013, 02:40:11 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on June 27, 2013, 02:24:44 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 08:16:04 am
Quote from: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
HAS KERBAL SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?
OR HAS KERBAL SCIENCE NOT GONE TOO FAR ENOUGH?!
Is there such a thing as too too far? We can always go too farther!
Quote
LosDelMango 19 hours ago
PUT THE HOOP AT THE SPACE CENTER.
DO A DUNK FROM ORBIT.
That needs to be done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on June 27, 2013, 03:31:32 pm
Quote from: Alkhemia on June 27, 2013, 02:40:11 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on June 27, 2013, 02:24:44 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 08:16:04 am
Quote from: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
HAS KERBAL SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?
OR HAS KERBAL SCIENCE NOT GONE TOO FAR ENOUGH?!
Is there such a thing as too too far? We can always go too farther!
Quote
LosDelMango 19 hours ago
PUT THE HOOP AT THE SPACE CENTER.
DO A DUNK FROM ORBIT.
That needs to be done.
Scott Manley dropped a tungsten rod from orbit and hit the VAB without further adjustment.  I'm still trying to figure out how.  Hitting the hoop with a giant ball would be easy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on June 27, 2013, 04:14:35 pm
Scott Manley is KSP god.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 27, 2013, 04:15:57 pm
Math. It is evil and awe-inspiring

From what I can tell that rod had very little drag, and thus deviated not mutch at all...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Scoops Novel on June 28, 2013, 05:12:46 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on June 25, 2013, 08:16:04 am
Quote from: Willfor on June 25, 2013, 02:53:11 am
Kerbal Space Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA)
HAS KERBAL SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?
OR HAS KERBAL SCIENCE NOT GONE TOO FAR ENOUGH?!

Excellent. I'm keeping the sound track.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ToonyMan on June 28, 2013, 08:46:56 pm
I've been playing Kerbal for the last month on and off.  I should share some images/adventures.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I still have a lot of places to land at still.  I've done Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, Eve, and Duna.  Not sure what to do next.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on July 02, 2013, 09:38:41 pm
Hey, I've learned something pretty cool; you can get ANYTHING into space if you strap enough JATO to it!

Case in point:
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/321/k3gb.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 03, 2013, 01:57:26 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on July 03, 2013, 01:56:13 pm
Does anyone have a mod that includes a decoupler that detaches from both sides, instead of just one? My issue with the current decoupler parts is that they still remain with what you detached from, making it so that you can't, say, dock with it after turning around.
I believe stack separators do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 03, 2013, 02:31:22 pm
Quote from: tryrar on July 02, 2013, 09:38:41 pm
Hey, I've learned something pretty cool; you can get ANYTHING into space if you strap enough JATO to it!

Case in point:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
JATO in general is hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyDocdJp_gs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRh6d2zO4mQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on July 03, 2013, 03:12:38 pm
I should buy this. I played the demo and enjoyed it.
Is the game CPU intensive or anything like that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 03, 2013, 03:14:34 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on July 03, 2013, 03:12:38 pm
I should buy this. I played the demo and enjoyed it.
Is the game CPU intensive or anything like that?
It can be, depending on how recently they've optimized.  The current build runs remarkably well for me on high graphics during average gameplay - if you're using superlarge ships or underpowered computer you can lower the settings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulufaic on July 03, 2013, 03:16:26 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on July 03, 2013, 03:12:38 pm
I should buy this. I played the demo and enjoyed it.
Is the game CPU intensive or anything like that?
It is quite CPU intensive, due to all the physics simulation.  However if you keep to smaller rockets than it should run fine, unless you have a computer that was new 8 years ago *cough*mine*cough*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on July 03, 2013, 03:17:39 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 03, 2013, 03:14:34 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on July 03, 2013, 03:12:38 pm
I should buy this. I played the demo and enjoyed it.
Is the game CPU intensive or anything like that?
It can be, depending on how recently they've optimized.  The current build runs remarkably well for me on high graphics during average gameplay - if you're using superlarge ships or underpowered computer you can lower the settings.
k, thanks. I guess I'll scrap together however much this costs now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 03, 2013, 03:40:50 pm
I play it on my laptop with very large ships, and I'm mostly fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on July 03, 2013, 04:08:42 pm
Can someone show me examples of rover deployment landers and how you design them?

I have had zero luck figuring out how to attach a rover to one of my crafts for placement on the surface of something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 03, 2013, 04:28:19 pm
I just slap it onto the top of my rocket like so:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And a bunch of rockets on it like so:


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note that this requires very careful alignment of the rockets, as it's very easy to get the balance wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 03, 2013, 04:39:21 pm
I normally just build rovers strong enough to fall a short distance and light enough to flip over, and clip them to the side of the rocket.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If your design allows, you can even clip them in such a way that they just land on the wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 03, 2013, 04:43:31 pm
Oh god those little kerbal buggies are adorable!

Damned Robotics can help with orientation as well, either swinging them down to deploy upright or righting yourself once you've fallen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 03, 2013, 06:12:15 pm
I've gotten a pretty decent multipurpose space station up orbiting Kerbin
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...and with the help of procedural wings, I was finally able to get an SSTO up to dock with the station and then land safely with FAR installed. Although I did mess up the docking pretty horribly on the first try and had to send up a refueling ship to make a second attempt.

My next project is going to be to setup a kethane mining base on Mun and use the engineering Lazors from the Lazor mod to beam up the kethane to a refueling station in an extremely low orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 03, 2013, 06:16:36 pm
Does the trick of having double docking ports for lining things up straight still work in the latest version? because i tried it in 0.19, and nothing happened.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 03, 2013, 06:23:52 pm
Well, I havent been able to dock anything, So i want to know that as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 03, 2013, 06:37:55 pm
From what I've heard,  you need to have the docking ports all connect at the same time to pull off the multiple connections trick. That means the two things you're trying to dock need to be perfectly aligned before you dock them, they won't straighten themselves out.

I haven't actually tried it myself though, so I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 03, 2013, 06:41:51 pm
Well that kinda defeats the purpose, for me at least. I mainly want them so I can have my station aligned properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 03, 2013, 09:41:38 pm
I put my buggies on the KAS cranes and lower them down.

I don't have pics handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on July 04, 2013, 02:31:31 pm
Here's my madness SPARTA!! method:

(http://img.ie/images/7kfam_thumb.jpg)
Linky for larger image. (http://img.ie/7kfam.png.html)

The rover hangs from the KAS winch (A) inside the ship's service bay (actually a repurposed Firespitter (http://kerbalspaceport.com/firespitter-propeller-plane-parts/) bomb bay); to get it out:
The rover includes a probe core, so its orientation can be adjusted on the way down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 04, 2013, 02:37:08 pm
Personally, I don't see the point of separating the rover from the lander. Just slap wheels on the lander and bam, you have a rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 05, 2013, 08:08:47 pm
Anyone have recommendations for PID values for use with FAR?  I really want aerodynamics, but I want ASAS even more.  Unfortunately, the standard settings for PID make ASAS worse than useless with FAR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 06, 2013, 03:29:51 am
In other news the 0.21.0 will destroy the 0.20.2 saves. So I don't feel like maneuvering my space station right now...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 06, 2013, 03:34:22 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on July 06, 2013, 03:29:51 am
In other news the 0.21.0 will destroy the 0.20.2 saves. So I don't feel like maneuvering my space station right now...

where did they made this announcement? I missed it!

I already follow tumbler, the blog, the news stream, the forum blogs.. sigh.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 06, 2013, 06:16:39 am
It's on the forum, not the forum blogs. There. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/38711-Will-0-20-saves-be-broken-by-KSP-0-21-Devs-please-answer/page6?p=496809#post496809)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on July 06, 2013, 10:26:56 am
crap. Well, there goes my motivation to try to get my miner landed properly and mining....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 10, 2013, 12:14:16 am
Well, I've finally sort of figured out the mechanics behind rendezvousing, and I've gotten my first space station up and running! Behold!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't even care that I can't dock with two of the ports because of the solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 10, 2013, 12:18:24 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 10, 2013, 12:14:16 am
Well, I've finally sort of figured out the mechanics behind rendezvousing, and I've gotten my first space station up and running! Behold!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't even care that I can't dock with two of the ports because of the solar panels.
Well... its not really a problem you see... kerbans are KNOWN to fuck thing up anyway!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on July 10, 2013, 02:00:21 pm
It's kerbal, not kerban.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 10, 2013, 02:12:29 pm
Kerbals are the creatures, kerbin is the world. Kerbans are nothing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2013, 02:13:32 pm
Quote
Kerbans are nothing

Aren't they those things you wear on your head?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 10, 2013, 02:15:50 pm
Thats with a T. So yes, that IS a bad pun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 10, 2013, 04:55:11 pm
Man, you can make space stations now?  How do you do that, send each piece up one at a time and put them together?  I could barely get a ship into space with as little extra weight as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 10, 2013, 05:05:09 pm
yep there is a docking port part which is kind of magnetic but you have to come very close and not too fast
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 10, 2013, 05:58:47 pm
I fired up 20.2 and now I can't get into orbit with rockets that got me to Jool previously what in the seven hells
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 10, 2013, 06:40:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 10, 2013, 05:58:47 pm
I fired up 20.2 and now I can't get into orbit with rockets that got me to Jool previously what in the seven hells
pic of rocket? or a ship file would be even better
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on July 10, 2013, 11:20:46 pm
Using the asparagus stalk system is the only way I can get anything heavy into orbit. It works wonders, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2013, 12:25:05 am
Yeah, same here, and it works amazingly well, though my rockets with it do get a little silly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 11, 2013, 01:00:47 am
I just JATO the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2013, 01:27:58 am
I don't think I've ever JATO'd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2013, 01:55:52 am
In fact, efficiency is for pussies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2013, 02:12:20 am
Yeah, but how heavy is the payload and how far does it go? Mine takes a massive rover and lands it on one Bop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:06:36 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 10, 2013, 05:58:47 pm
I fired up 20.2 and now I can't get into orbit with rockets that got me to Jool previously what in the seven hells
They revamped some numbers. I think mainsails are less powerful, some things are heavier and the giant solars only do half as much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2013, 09:39:38 am
Pff, you kids your delta v and your map mode, pff.

Last time I played this it was free, and there was no map mode, and there was no Mun, and if you wanted to orbit you had to do it first-person with no projections.

My Kerbal space program is progressing reasonably well.  First came the Mk1 unmanned rocket, which was too big and complex for the job and was scrapped after a few failed missions.  The Mk2 was an experimental design with a spaceplane-like payload riding on the back of the main booster.  Something something center of mass, it failed in every possible way.

Finally a simplified version of the Mk1, the Mk3, made it into stable orbit but the batteries died and it became the first permanent satellite.  The Mk3-b (for batteries!) successfully made a full orbital revolution and reentry.

Then came the Mk3-m manned rocket, which, with some modifications, did all of the above with kerbals onboard.  No deaths.

Next I'm working on Kerbnik, the first intentionally permanent satellite.  Then maybe some unmanned Mun probes and finally landing on Mun.  After that I'm gonna have to figure out this crazy fucking space station shit I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:51:17 am
Docking man!


Heres a suggestion that I really need to do.

Have a ship thats going up.
Shove a docking port on it.
Shove an RCS drone on that, connected with another port.
Fuck around with them in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 11, 2013, 10:30:07 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:51:17 am
Docking man!


Heres a suggestion that I really need to do.

Have a ship thats going up.
Shove a docking port on it.
Shove an RCS drone on that, connected with another port.
Fuck around with them in space.

i really want someone to dock two rockets flying into orbit from each side of the equator while one is essentially a (plausibly mechjeb-controlled) icbm and the other is player-controlled ship and with their powers combined they become captain planet interstellar craft
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on July 11, 2013, 10:43:01 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 11, 2013, 10:30:07 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:51:17 am
Docking man!


Heres a suggestion that I really need to do.

Have a ship thats going up.
Shove a docking port on it.
Shove an RCS drone on that, connected with another port.
Fuck around with them in space.

i really want someone to dock two rockets flying into orbit from each side of the equator while one is essentially a (plausibly mechjeb-controlled) icbm and the other is player-controlled ship and with their powers combined they become captain planet interstellar craft
to bad about the 2k limit of stuff getting deleted so you can't really 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 11, 2013, 10:44:29 am
Quote from: Alkhemia on July 11, 2013, 10:43:01 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 11, 2013, 10:30:07 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:51:17 am
Docking man!


Heres a suggestion that I really need to do.

Have a ship thats going up.
Shove a docking port on it.
Shove an RCS drone on that, connected with another port.
Fuck around with them in space.

i really want someone to dock two rockets flying into orbit from each side of the equator while one is essentially a (plausibly mechjeb-controlled) icbm and the other is player-controlled ship and with their powers combined they become captain planet interstellar craft
to bad about the 2k limit of stuff getting deleted so you can't really
It only gets deleted if it's in atmosphere. In space you're fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on July 11, 2013, 10:45:57 am
Quote from: Graknorke on July 11, 2013, 10:44:29 am
Quote from: Alkhemia on July 11, 2013, 10:43:01 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 11, 2013, 10:30:07 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 11, 2013, 09:51:17 am
Docking man!


Heres a suggestion that I really need to do.

Have a ship thats going up.
Shove a docking port on it.
Shove an RCS drone on that, connected with another port.
Fuck around with them in space.

i really want someone to dock two rockets flying into orbit from each side of the equator while one is essentially a (plausibly mechjeb-controlled) icbm and the other is player-controlled ship and with their powers combined they become captain planet interstellar craft
to bad about the 2k limit of stuff getting deleted so you can't really
It only gets deleted if it's in atmosphere. In space you're fine.
oh nice I think there a mod that get rid of the 2k limit anyways but that good to know 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2013, 11:15:47 am
I didn't realize it at first, but my landmark Kerbnik 1 success carried another important milestone, the first orbiting space junk.  The final stage thruster has settled into a nearly perfect circular orbit around Kerbin.

My first attempt at a Mun probe was disastrous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 11, 2013, 01:06:02 pm
Failed to land on the Mun for a rescue mission, due to fuel shortage. AGAIN.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2013, 05:16:47 pm
My Mun probe almost made it but, once again, the batteries died before my final course adjustments and after a few extremely eccentric revolutions around Kerbin it got caught into a solar orbit, larger than Kerbin's.

Is it intentional that you can't reclassify an object if its batteries are dead?  The Mk3 is a landmark so it can stay but if these failed missions keep leaving me with strange objects floating around the solar system and I can't mark them as trash eventually the tracking station's gonna get cluttered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on July 11, 2013, 05:35:34 pm
You can just end flight for it -_-

Also, It's a good idea to include at least RTGs(if not solar panels) on anything you put into space, just because of situations like that
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 11, 2013, 06:46:17 pm
I don't want to make it disappear, it's part of Kerbal history!  Keep your animoticons to yourself.  I guess I'll just have to let it float there, it's no big.

Made it to Mun on a modified Mk3, but crashed on the surface.  Gonna look into a better landing craft.

EDIT:  Another crash, getting closer though.  The probe glimpsed an Arch from high altitude before it crashed.  This warrants more investigation, NO SPOILERS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 12, 2013, 01:38:41 am
Man, I never realized just how little thrust is necessary for massive delta V using gravitational slingshots. Est burns of 1s with only a middle rockomax engine giving 100+ m/s is pretty awesome. mun
Got a rocket to stable orbit around the Mun and then stable orbit around Kerbin followed by successful parachute landing. Could have potentially careened it into the sun, something I really want to do at some point. I also realize I've never actually had a successful mun landing...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 12, 2013, 03:02:00 am
I landed a probe on Mun a few hours ago, I had a little too much lateral speed going and the lander came apart on impact but I'm still calling it a success.  The main module survived, minus its generator, so we'll see how long it goes.

More distant but unmistakable glimpses of clearly unnatural objects on Mun's surface.  Now that I have a probe down to reckon by, I should be able to land a rover (or a kerballed lander?!) near one.  The plot thickens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 12, 2013, 08:20:17 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on July 12, 2013, 07:25:34 pm
Well, that was satisfying. I now have 20 satellites orbiting Kerbin, and 2 orbiting the Mun. Make that 2 into 5, and then I shall land on it.

do it like i did and put 40 tons of communications in orbit then do your best to fling your orbits around so you land directly under the satellite

it takes skill to actually crash into something in orbit when landing right?

i've got skill

/me reassures self of spaceship piloting qualities
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 12, 2013, 08:41:59 pm
I'm puttering along very slowly.  I attempted a moon landing but barely got off the ground, also always always always land in real time, no matter how slow you're going, I learned.  Rest in Peace Jeb, first Kerbal in space.

I decided to dial back my approach a bit, and instead performed the Kremini mission.  Kremini 7 and 6A successfully docked in orbit, undocked, and landed, with several experimental EVAs along the way.  Spent a lot of time getting the hang of things but it was worth it.  Going through the process of equalizing orbits and docking makes me realize there is no way in hell I would've been able to do a moon landing.  Or, well, I could've done a landing, but that's as far as we'd go.

Also, what's up with the reentry forces?  I had a satellite deorbit and the solar panels burnt away in the atmosphere, but Selnie Kerman of Kremini 6A rode on the outside for the entire braking process and survived.

I also put a rover on Mun but learned that rovers are fucking impossible to drive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 12, 2013, 08:58:58 pm
solars break easily. Just be glad they dont break from mono-propellant like they do IRL.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on July 12, 2013, 09:00:53 pm
As far as I know, there is not really such a thing as reentry forces. It's just a fancy effect. The breaking was just normal drag of your ship going though the atmosphere at the speed it was going. And extended solar panels are just really weak.

How did you convince a Kerbal to hang on tight enough to a ship to not fly off? I've tried a little bit, but they always let go and fly off into the distance with some smug shit eating grin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on July 12, 2013, 11:17:55 pm
Quote from: Criptfeind on July 12, 2013, 09:00:53 pm
As far as I know, there is not really such a thing as reentry forces. It's just a fancy effect. The breaking was just normal drag of your ship going though the atmosphere at the speed it was going. And extended solar panels are just really weak.


unless of course you have this mod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ovbMe6Sboo
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Alkhemia on July 12, 2013, 11:51:32 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on July 12, 2013, 11:30:49 pm
Sadly, that mod is bugged for the current version. It currently makes reentry impossible.
oh that sucks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on July 13, 2013, 03:54:40 am
That's wrong. The latest version works perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 13, 2013, 04:09:15 am
I thought the whole point of the mod was to make the usual style of Kerbal reentry impossible?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2013, 07:22:28 am
Well, I managed to successfully land Jebediah on the Mun. However, my decision to use an external control seat (because I can't figure out how to make a ship not use up all available seats) had an unpredicted flaw: that my lander was offbalanced by Jebediah's weight. I was able to land despite my lander careening in one direction without fixing, but when I was ready to rendezvous with the orbiter I was so focused on fixing the escape that I didn't realize I was heading westward while my orbiter was orbiting eastward. I tried to fix it but lacked enough fuel, ended up crashing into the Mun 20km west from the original landing site. Nevertheless, I think I've gained invaluable knowledge.
Now I've got a long-range space probe with 2000 units of xenon gas currently burning towards a trajectory out of the solar system. I'm not sure whether I want to aim for completely leaving or an extremely long orbit. I've got 2 hours of burning to decide.
Thinking about it, it's not really possible to escape Kerbol's gravity well, is it? The apoapsis of the furthest orbit I can calculate with the maneuver thing is about a billion kilometers, and IRL the nearest star is 40 trillion kilometers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 13, 2013, 09:37:16 am
So, uh...

I was screwing around, making a rover with the new cupola thing.

Then for the hell of it, I slapped some wings on it.

Then this happened: Mood music (http://youtu.be/8R-OfzYta9Q)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 13, 2013, 12:35:15 pm
Quote from: Alkhemia on July 12, 2013, 11:51:32 pm
Quote from: XxoriginxX on July 12, 2013, 11:30:49 pm
Sadly, that mod is bugged for the current version. It currently makes reentry impossible.
oh that sucks

I think it is, unless the videos I saw of it where using an old version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on July 13, 2013, 04:26:03 pm
Did your capsule have a heat shield?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 05:17:52 pm
I did it!  I put a rover on the Mun and it's working!  Landed it in a mare.  Now begins the long journey westward, to the oft-glimpsed mystery structure.  Turns out the Mun is very big. I'll have to save exploration of the mystery structures for my manned mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 06:28:00 pm
My first Mun attempt didn't go as planned.  I decided since I have unlimited resources, I'd send two ships, one with a lander and one with the command module.  Since I needed two empty seats in my command module I started with a single-seat module, planning to move Bill to the main command module en-route and then detach the cockpit to expose the docking bay.

I realized on the launchpad that this meant Bill wouldn't have access to a parachute if something went wrong before we escaped the atmosphere.

I realized about 5km off the ground that my decouplers were irreparably fucked up and the ship was going to crash.  The only hope was for Bill to crawl across the surface of the rocket as it listed to the side and get into the reentry module, then decouple everything and pop the parachutes before we crashed.  It was a suicide mission, but Bill knew that before the rocket was even on the launchpad.

Spoiler: Oh kerby boooooy, the pipes, the pipes are calling (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 13, 2013, 07:57:02 pm
Bill, Jeb, Bob, and Ringo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:11:59 pm
Well, I put Kerbals on Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 13, 2013, 08:15:53 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:11:59 pm
Well, I put Kerbals on Mun.

Spoiler: Hooray? (click to show/hide)
Don't think of this as a failure. Think of it instead as the start of your permanent Mun settlement!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:21:54 pm
Jebediah went out searching for the arches.  He died of jetpack overdose under mysterious circumstances.

Now the only thing left is to hit that monopropellant as hard as I can and pray for a miracle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 13, 2013, 08:23:25 pm
Send a rescue party. And a rescue the rescue party. And....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:33:42 pm
Update

Spoiler: Bill is biologically incapable of giving a fuck. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2013, 10:01:32 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:11:59 pm
Well, I put Kerbals on Mun.

Spoiler: Hooray? (click to show/hide)
What causes this silliness, anyway? My mun mission was disrupted by the detachment of the lander from the orbiter going strangely wrong, in that the docking nodes both stayed with the orbiter when I told them to decouple... Similarly my initial rocket was hampered by two fuel tanks on top of eachother deciding to stop being connected for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on July 13, 2013, 10:37:38 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 08:33:42 pm
Update

Spoiler: Bill is biologically incapable of giving a fuck. (click to show/hide)
If you time it right, don't die on the failed attempts on the way down, and have enough monopropellant when you intercept the craft, that could work. Could.

This is a drama that shall rival Apollo 13!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 10:52:28 pm
I don't think I could.  I could get up there but I'd still need the lander's main thruster to dock or I'd just get rammed at some unthinkable speed by the command module.

I'm just kind of staring at the screen right now.  I feel like I've reached the limit of my skill to actually do anything.  The next milestone is a space station but that may as well be a brick wall, I don't even know how to start and getting one off the internet is an unacceptable alternative.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 13, 2013, 10:55:02 pm
Manned mission to the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Willfor on July 13, 2013, 10:56:07 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on July 13, 2013, 10:37:38 pm
If you time it right, don't die on the failed attempts on the way down, and have enough monopropellant when you intercept the craft, that could work. Could.

This is a drama that shall rival Apollo 13!
I feel like the chances of this happening are akin to trying to hit a bullet with a bullet. Because that's essentially what he'd be trying to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 11:19:32 pm
My first manned mission to the moon went even worse than that one you saw there.  I wasn't paying attention and burned to enter Mun orbit without bothering to actually aim the ship, and we ended up flying off into nowhere.  It's now in a solar orbit and I decided to use one of the two survivors to find out what would happen if I went on EVA while the ship was fully throttled.  Turns out the answer is duh.

Forty days later, Fredly Kerman is still out there, farther from Kerbin than any Kerbal has ever been.  He stopped screaming weeks ago, I think he understands.  The closest he'll be to home again is twenty million kilometers.

EDIT:  Kerbo 3, another successful landing, this time we bounced and knocked the RCS tank off.  Not as fubar, but still pretty fucked up.

EDIT2:  Just realized the docking clamp also came off.  There's no way we can do a normal rendezvous now.  We're gonna have to equalize speed and get the orbits as close as we can, and just fucking jump through a couple miles of infinite nothing to reach the lander.  Godspeed, Bill and Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2013, 04:41:02 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 13, 2013, 11:19:32 pm
EDIT2:  Just realized the docking clamp also came off.  There's no way we can do a normal rendezvous now.  We're gonna have to equalize speed and get the orbits as close as we can, and just fucking jump through a couple miles of infinite nothing to reach the lander.  Godspeed, Bill and Jeb.
The docking clamp coming off thing happened to me earlier, and when designing my space station I noticed that I had originally stacked two ports on top of each other while designing my orbiter+lander. Using qweasd or so can flip parts, make sure you do that if you haven't already.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jebel al-Tariq is now in orbit around the planet Kerbin. Capable of supporting a crew of 9 for over a year, it's suited with the finest scientific instruments Kerbin has to offer. Phase 2 will be the attachment of two Ion engines towards the rear of the ship followed by a crew of several kerbal scientists. Then Phase 3 will be the accumulation of fuel to support interplanetary voyages. It was really much easier than I expected, and there's quite a bit of fuel still left.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 08:03:39 am
There wasn't any structural flaw, the lander rolled over and tore off the clamp, along with the RCS tank.  We attempted the aforementioned save but messed up the ascent and ended up in a retrograde orbit relative to the command module.  There was no saving that one.  Bill tried to make the jump despite the 1060m/s velocity difference and was never seen again.  Jeb put the lander in on a collision course and jumped out.  He hit the surface of the Mun with the force of about 3 kilograms of TNT.  Selnie, the command module pilot, made it home just fine.

Kerbo 4 came next.  Orbit was perfect.  Docking (I'm doing it Apollo style, where the lander is planted behind the CSM and moved into position en route) was perfect.  Transfer was perfect.  The only flaw going into the descent was that there were no Anomalous Structures in the viable landing zones.

I don't have the constitution for these high tension landings.  With no SAS on the lander I ended up overcorrecting and rolling the lander again, knocking off the RCS and clamp, just like last time.  This time we were ready though.  We did our little moonwalk, I forgot to plant a flag, and then we went into orbit.  More than a dozen revolutions and most of the remaining monopropellant later, we had our first and last window of opportunity.  Jeb and Bill made a leap of faith into the void and floated five kilometers to the command module, and became the first kerbals to set foot on the Mun and return alive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on July 14, 2013, 08:33:40 am
Five whole kilometers?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:00:20 am
Kerbo 5, Jeb went down alone on the Dark Side to find the ARCH.

And the god damn fucking RCS tank fell off again.  It's not fucking funny anymore.  I'd put on some struts to keep the bastard attached but I'm never flying this rocket again after this so whatever.  This is it.  The ultimate mystery.  Happiness for everybody, free, and let no one go away unsatisfied.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 14, 2013, 09:01:34 am
You mean they successfully hit the orbiter using only jetpacks? Awesome.
Personally I just failed yet again at connecting my ion engines to my space station, this time because I noticed I was out of propellant when I wasn't unreasonably far from the station. I'm really not understanding this whole docking thing in regards to lining up the orbits, as If I actually get almost perfectly similar orbits my target is always not where the maneuver calculator said it will be, and neither of the purple things that show up seem to actually reduce the m/s ticker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:33:29 am
Turns out it's hard to navigate in the dark.  Who knew?  Jeb landed on the wrong end of the mare, more than a hundred kilometers from the prize.

Bill and Bob aren't gonna let his life's work go to waste though, they just landed the CSM, destroying everything but the pod, #yolo

Now let's find that fucking arch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:35:37 am
WHAT IS THIS YOLO.
BURN ThE YOLO
IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS YOLO TRUE.
DESTROY THE YOLO USERS!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:44:40 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:35:37 am
WHAT IS THIS YOLO.
BURN ThE YOLO
IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS YOLO TRUE.
DESTROY THE YOLO USERS!

#yolo

I christened the landing site Yolo Mare.

Also the CSM crashed fifty kilometers from the ARCH.  For fuck's sake, give me one god damned break game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:47:49 am
I am sorry, I just think the concept of it retarded as its used for games where death is of no consequence.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:50:01 am
Because we control there every move. thus they cant be AI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 14, 2013, 10:33:30 am
Quote from: greatorder on July 14, 2013, 10:31:26 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:50:01 am
Because we control there every move. thus they cant be AI.
Fool! This is what they WANT you to think, that we can't have AI, no, but with their quantum computers and NSA uplinks they're all controlling every facet of our daily lives and making a sheeple like YOU believe it's impossible! It all started with the fluoride, man! Open your mind, ere the honey badgers get you!

no need to thank me
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 14, 2013, 12:01:04 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:44:40 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:35:37 am
WHAT IS THIS YOLO.
BURN ThE YOLO
IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS YOLO TRUE.
DESTROY THE YOLO USERS!
I christened the landing site Yolo Mare.
Do you mean 'mer', like sea? Because AFAIK there aren't any majestic horses, or even not-majestic horses, on the mün.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2013, 01:58:22 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 14, 2013, 12:01:04 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:44:40 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:35:37 am
WHAT IS THIS YOLO.
BURN ThE YOLO
IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS YOLO TRUE.
DESTROY THE YOLO USERS!
I christened the landing site Yolo Mare.
Do you mean 'mer', like sea? Because AFAIK there aren't any majestic horses, or even not-majestic horses, on the mün.
The large flattish areas on our moon are called 'Mare'.

EX: http://cseligman.com/text/moons/lunarnearsidelabeled.jpg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 14, 2013, 02:56:48 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2013, 01:58:22 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 14, 2013, 12:01:04 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 14, 2013, 09:44:40 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:35:37 am
WHAT IS THIS YOLO.
BURN ThE YOLO
IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS YOLO TRUE.
DESTROY THE YOLO USERS!
I christened the landing site Yolo Mare.
Do you mean 'mer', like sea? Because AFAIK there aren't any majestic horses, or even not-majestic horses, on the mün.
The large flattish areas on our moon are called 'Mare'.

EX: http://cseligman.com/text/moons/lunarnearsidelabeled.jpg
Quote from: Wikipedia
They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas"
Oh, okay. In hindsight I should probably have considered latin, rather than another romantic language.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on July 14, 2013, 11:00:53 pm
As we speak, my yolonaughts are preparing to embark in the yolo V rocket, headed straight for yolostation 4 orbiting just above the recently established yolothane mining station.




I feel dirty

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 14, 2013, 11:15:23 pm
Although to be honest, KSP does lend itself to the YOLO thing quite a bit.

"Oh, hey, I'm not too sure about the structural integrity of this ship... too many boosters, I feel that's probably gonna break", says the space engineer with a doubtful, piercing stare at the space rocket in front of him.

"YOLO!!!!!11one", yells Bill McKerbinbeard, with the widest grin you've ever seen, running straight for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2013, 11:27:18 pm
Spoiler: My rover is evolving. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 12:21:40 am
For spaceplanes, what kind of relations should I be looking for with the centers of mass/lift/thrust?  I've got a plane that makes it off the ground but then starts flipping and rolling uncontrollably and crashes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 15, 2013, 12:58:39 am
Center of lift should be behind the center of mass, generally. The center of thrust, on the other hand, is more tricky, and requires trial and error, though it needs to pass though the center of gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 15, 2013, 01:00:59 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 12:21:40 am
For spaceplanes, what kind of relations should I be looking for with the centers of mass/lift/thrust?  I've got a plane that makes it off the ground but then starts flipping and rolling uncontrollably and crashes.

center of mass quite ahead of the center of lift, thrust slightly below or in line with the center of mass, center of lift may be slightly above the center of mass.

consider it in term of levers, thrust below the center of mass cause your plane to rotate upward, same apply in reverse with the center of lift, with the difference that center of lift is also where drag is applied so if it is ahead of the mass makes your plane unstable (will have a rotational force proportional to the angle of attack, rotating to increase it)

anyway, there are quite some issue in the lift/drag model.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 06:59:25 am
One last Kerbo mission, in memory of Jeb.  We triangulated the exact location of the anomaly.  We reinforced the RCS tank so it wouldn't fucking come off again.

We came down within a kilometer.  The fucking RCS tank came off.  Fuck my life.

But it's all good, we've done it.  This is it.  The ARCH is ours.  This will be the final Kerbo mission, we won't be coming back to Mun until after Kerba Station is built.

EDIT:  Scratch that, probably five kilometers away.  Obbo Kerman won't have the supplies to make the trek back but that's okay.  We did it for Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 15, 2013, 07:37:06 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 06:59:25 am
We came down within a kilometer.  The fucking RCS tank came off.  Fuck my life.

have you considered

more struts

Spoiler: appropriate amount of struts (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 07:43:39 am
I added four struts, but it still came off.  It doesn't matter though, that was the last mission of its kind.  My next step is to construct the Kerba Orbital Station, and with all the refueling and dry-dock abilities that gives me I'll be able to bring sturdier landers if I ever go back to Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on July 15, 2013, 07:44:36 am
If a ship isn't composed of at least 70% struts, you're bound to have issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: OREOSOME on July 15, 2013, 07:45:55 am
I'm just going to say that Struts are like Dakka. There is never enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 15, 2013, 08:18:02 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 07:43:39 am
with all the refueling and dry-dock abilities that gives me I'll be able to bring sturdier landers if I ever go back to Mun.

quid refuelet ipsos refueler?

 :P

in the end I went for a refueling tanker ship to be launched to every long range mission, as it was less launches overall anyway.

I would love to build a huge in orbital spaceship but it requires some working version of the docking strut mod - also will have to wait the next save change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 09:06:02 am
I'm not gonna build anything huge, I'm just gonna use it as support.  As for who refuels the refueler, it shouldn't be too hard to lug a few orange tanks into orbit and dock them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 15, 2013, 09:11:20 am
I'm taking a break after my third failed attempt to dock, the first time because I couldn't get close, the second time because I couldn't get close before I ran out of monopropellant, and the third time because I ran out of monopropellant after a half hour of fiddling around with 50 meters of the station and never succeeding. Seriously, I try to change the facing of something and it causes me to gain speed that I can't possibly reduce without changing the heading back to where it was, and overall everything is just erratic as my craft doesn't rotate without rcs. I don't think it's as easy as some people make it seem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 15, 2013, 10:12:49 am
Are you usong the docking commands with an asas by any chance?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 15, 2013, 10:24:54 am
Nope, never seen any.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 15, 2013, 11:28:42 am
Ok, there lies the trick.

Put an asas on it will keep your ship direction, then enter docking mode which basically will switch the rotation to translation (like how eva kerbal moves)

Default keybinds, delete to enter dicking mode, space to switch between translation and rotation
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 15, 2013, 11:51:06 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 15, 2013, 11:28:42 am
Ok, there lies the trick.

Put an asas on it will keep your ship direction, then enter docking mode which basically will switch the rotation to translation (like how eva kerbal moves)

Default keybinds, delete to enter dicking mode, space to switch between translation and rotation
...that's how I will refer to the docking control mode from now on.

:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Itnetlolor on July 15, 2013, 11:52:01 am
Finally boarded the bandwagon of the full version of KSP. Not used to some of the updated stuff, since I was using the old version demo for some time. Came to realize how much I suck at engineering design; at least, where assisted takeoffs are concerned, although my aircraft design isn't as bad as I initially thought. I was able to make a decent glider and guide it to the landing strip just fine. I just lacked air brakes of any sort, and had to stall-land it. Made it close, and my Kerbal survived the crash landing with half the ship still intact missing half of the runway, and stopping with a quarter of it, only slightly going off the runway into the grass.

Not bad for a pretty heavy ship with no means of stopping. I know how to crash land, at least. Hell, even with a ship the was seemingly not as good aerodynamically, I crash-landed it like the beginning of Pitch Black. I don't know how my Kerbals survive more than half my crashes, but they do.

CURRENT KSP STAGE:
Still grounded. Working on making a reusable space shuttle design, as well as an efficient rocket that guarantees a space launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 09:27:16 pm
We did it.  We found the ARCH.  It was majestic.  From orbit it looked so tiny.  Vacuum does weird things to your depth perception, up close we found it was enormous.

Because of the Mun's unnaturally perfect orbit, once every Munar year the sun is totally eclipsed by Kerbin, directly above the ARCH.  The History Channel tells me this is clear proof that the ARCH, and possibly the Mun itself, was made by aliens.

We arrived just in time to see the eclipse.  It was too beautiful, didn't spoil it with pictures.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Willfor on July 15, 2013, 09:38:48 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 09:27:16 pm
We arrived just in time to see the eclipse.  It was too beautiful, didn't spoil it with pictures.
This is TOTALLY not just because you got all the way to the Mun, and realized that while you brought the Just-Snap-It brand camera you had forgotten the film for it back on Kerbin. That's not the case whatsoever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2013, 09:47:31 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2013, 09:27:16 pm
We did it.  We found the ARCH.  It was majestic.  From orbit it looked so tiny.  Vacuum does weird things to your depth perception, up close we found it was enormous.

Because of the Mun's unnaturally perfect orbit, once every Munar year the sun is totally eclipsed by Kerbin, directly above the ARCH.  The History Channel tells me this is clear proof that the ARCH, and possibly the Mun itself, was made by aliens.

We arrived just in time to see the eclipse.  It was too beautiful, didn't spoil it with pictures.
You're absolutely right. The Arch, the Mun, and the entire Kerbol system were created by an advanced form of life known as "humans".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 16, 2013, 12:23:22 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 14, 2013, 09:50:01 am
Because we control there every move. thus they cant be AI.
We don't completely control them, they are still able to show emotions in reaction to things. They're trapped in bodies that they are not in control of and can only watch as we have them do blatantly stupid and dangerous things.

That look of terror on their faces? We did that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on July 16, 2013, 02:25:10 am
I edit my guys stupidity and courage. They always only show the grin of the truly mentally ill to me. In contemplation of this I come to the realization this does not invalidate what you said and in fact may make it worse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 16, 2013, 09:37:56 am
Spoiler: So, I finally reached a mountain. Took me like three quarters of an hour to get there. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Linenoise on July 16, 2013, 10:51:53 am
I finally got the game and all I know for certain at this time is that I am not very good at making rockets. I think I will fit right in with these Kerbin chaps...


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 16, 2013, 11:27:31 am
1. More struts.
2. More boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: guessingo on July 16, 2013, 11:43:18 am
how well developed is this game? is it a complete game yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 16, 2013, 11:47:25 am
Quote from: Criptfeind on July 16, 2013, 02:25:10 am
I edit my guys stupidity and courage. They always only show the grin of the truly mentally ill to me. In contemplation of this I come to the realization this does not invalidate what you said and in fact may make it worse.
Don't worry about it too much. You may have brainwashed a species to have no sense of self preservation as you strap them to giant rockets and hurl them into the void, but it's not the worst thing Bay12 has ever done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 12:07:18 pm
Remember, when Jeb starts screaming you know the mission's fucked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Criptfeind on July 16, 2013, 12:48:20 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 12:07:18 pm
Remember, when Jeb starts screaming you know the mission's fucked.

Does Jeb have like a special like. Something in the game that makes him like that? Because I've sorta noticed the same thing, but his stats say Bill is just as brave as Jeb is and Jeb is actually smarter then Bill. Edit: Although to be honest I don't actually know if the stats do anything. I assumed they controlled when they panicked, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 16, 2013, 01:02:12 pm
Jeb isn't the only on that reacts like that, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 16, 2013, 02:14:36 pm
They have a special tag in their identity files. I believe it's [BAD_S].
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 16, 2013, 02:49:07 pm
Quote from: guessingo on July 16, 2013, 11:43:18 am
how well developed is this game? is it a complete game yet?
Yes and no. Its playable, but not done yet. Think of it like Dwarf Fortress in that regard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Myroc on July 16, 2013, 03:20:58 pm
So I bought the game, and after a few tutorials managed to land on the Mun on the second try, using the default Kerbal X rocket. Only problem is that the lander has next to no fuel left, and even if it did, the engine broke off during the crash unusually harsh landing. The kerbonauts are fine though, so now I'm trying to design another rocket with more fuel that can bring the three maniacs back home in one piece. From what I've observed from this thread, it seems that events like these are par for the course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 07:00:29 pm
You don't have to get the lander all the way onto the Mun and back, you can always send a ship with enough fuel to get into low Mun orbit and back, and dock them.  If there's no clamp just synchronize the orbits and have your kerbals jump across, it's safer than it sounds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 16, 2013, 07:01:12 pm
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 07:00:29 pm
it's safer than it sounds.

the creed of kerbal aerospace
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: thobal on July 16, 2013, 07:25:11 pm
I like having a smallish lander with a couple of the smaller radial engines and a docking port of the back. Then I have a larger stage that it launches with with a docking port on front. When they get to Mun, i have them undock, lander lands. Later flies back up and reattaches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 08:03:50 pm
That's the ideal situation, at least until you're advanced enough for landers that can get back home, but it sounds like it's a little late for Myroc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on July 16, 2013, 09:02:28 pm
Since you were all talking about "brave" Kerbals earlier.

(http://i.imgur.com/x68NJvF.png)

I think I have a winner.

This fellow smiles just as much as Jeb, if not more, in just as precarious situations.

He has been immortalized on the space station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 16, 2013, 09:32:57 pm
Jeb also has the hidden 'badass' flag though, and I believe he is the only one right now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Myroc on July 17, 2013, 05:36:03 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 07:00:29 pm
You don't have to get the lander all the way onto the Mun and back, you can always send a ship with enough fuel to get into low Mun orbit and back, and dock them.  If there's no clamp just synchronize the orbits and have your kerbals jump across, it's safer than it sounds.
The problem is that they can't get into orbit (unless there's some arcane, space magic method of getting into orbit without an engine), so to rescue them I will actually have to land something on the surface. I designed another rocket whose lander had an extended crew compartment, however, I once again managed to miscalculate the amount of fuel required, and the rescue team burned out of fuel right above the Munar surface, crashing into the terrain at 720 kilometers per hour. I think I'm making my rockets too large, so I'm gonna try and fiddle a bit with the Thrust To Weight ratio and see if I can design something more efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on July 17, 2013, 06:45:11 am
So my SO, just bought this game from the Steam Sale.

And she got her first rocket up, and it ended, with a firey explosions. Those poor poor kerbals...

So, I was wondering whats tips do you have for someone new to the game or point her toward resources so she can go off explore and learn?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 17, 2013, 06:54:49 am
Don't overdo it at start, a simple two stage rocket can get you to orbit early - check the bay12 community game for some inspiration

A thing to understand to enter orbit is that you need almost no vertical speed when you reach outside the atmosphere but to maintan altitude you will need around 3000m/s of horizontal speed - you shold not ascend vertically but turn early (say, at 1/3 of the atmo bar) to start building up that horizontal speed.

The manever nodes will help you also in your first orbit. Burn until the map shows the AP at a reasonable 100km, then place a node there and drag the handle until the prediction is cirular - then just follow the marker and the dv indicator.

There is an autopilot mod, but I'd suggest to at least try everything manually at first, so to understand the weird way maneuvers and ancounters work in space.


Ps have you seen this thing?
http://imgur.com/a/dhHfr#0
A colony floating on laythe wow
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2013, 10:58:43 am
Use da tutorials.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 17, 2013, 01:17:32 pm
Quote from: MrWiggles on July 17, 2013, 06:45:11 am
So, I was wondering whats tips do you have for someone new to the game
Video record your attempts and put them online. I had my slightly younger sisters and much younger cousins play it a few months ago and wish I had recorded the event.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: simoroth on July 17, 2013, 01:32:32 pm
Quote from: Myroc on July 17, 2013, 05:36:03 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 07:00:29 pm
You don't have to get the lander all the way onto the Mun and back, you can always send a ship with enough fuel to get into low Mun orbit and back, and dock them.  If there's no clamp just synchronize the orbits and have your kerbals jump across, it's safer than it sounds.
(unless there's some arcane, space magic method of getting into orbit without an engine)

You can use their RCS jetpacks if you are badass enough. :D Requires a slight kick. I think Scott Manley did it by getting them to jump in front of a running engine exhaust to give them a bit of momentum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 17, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Quote from: simoroth on July 17, 2013, 01:32:32 pm
Quote from: Myroc on July 17, 2013, 05:36:03 am
Quote from: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 07:00:29 pm
You don't have to get the lander all the way onto the Mun and back, you can always send a ship with enough fuel to get into low Mun orbit and back, and dock them.  If there's no clamp just synchronize the orbits and have your kerbals jump across, it's safer than it sounds.
(unless there's some arcane, space magic method of getting into orbit without an engine)

You can use their RCS jetpacks if you are badass enough. :D
Only badass thing I've ever done with a jetpack is jumping out a plane when I tried to drop a fuel tank so I could land on an airfield.  Had my engine torn off, along with some of my control surfaces, part of a wing, and my gear.  I couldn't land, as the gears were gone, and even if I did I wouldn't have enough control.  I came in, low above the airfield, having to fight the plane every step of the way, and moments before the craft hit the ground I had Jeb jump out, using his jetpack to slow him down just enough to survive. 
Is it even possible to use the jetpack to achieve orbit on the Mun?  On Minmus maybe, but the Mun?   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 17, 2013, 01:47:46 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on July 17, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Is it even possible to use the jetpack to achieve orbit on the Mun?  On Minmus maybe, but the Mun?

I know it's possible to return to Kerbin using the jetpack on Gilly, but that's not saying much, seeing as it's the object with the least gravity in the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on July 17, 2013, 03:55:08 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 17, 2013, 01:47:46 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on July 17, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Is it even possible to use the jetpack to achieve orbit on the Mun?  On Minmus maybe, but the Mun?

I know it's possible to return to Kerbin using the jetpack on Gilly, but that's not saying much, seeing as it's the object with the least gravity in the game.

Not coincidentally, it's also the only object you can possibly build a space elevator from, as it's the only body with a geostationary point within the maximum physics range allowed by Romfarer stuff. (Of course, being on Gilly rather defeats the point of having a space elevator in the first place!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 19, 2013, 02:11:14 am
Jetpack orbit on the mun without any other thruster?

Spoiler: prepare to be amazed (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 19, 2013, 05:36:46 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 19, 2013, 02:11:14 am
Jetpack orbit on the mun without any other thruster?

Spoiler: prepare to be amazed (click to show/hide)
:o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on July 19, 2013, 05:39:01 am
The kerbal attachment system is awesome
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on July 19, 2013, 06:05:13 am
$#@$#@%$#%!$@#$#@@! I'm objectively sure I'd love Extra-planetary Launchpads....if only I can get. that. fucking .smelter. to. the. Mun. I've spent literally all night on it, and the closest I came was separating my transition stage so I can skycrane it down near my launchpad, only to have the transition stage collide with the smelter and destroy it  >:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 19, 2013, 08:15:53 am
Smelter? Which mod are we talking here?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on July 19, 2013, 08:48:47 am
*Ahem* Extra-planetary Launchpads. I just said it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 19, 2013, 11:01:22 am
GUYS GUYS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9oH49oFlN8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9oH49oFlN8)
Scott Manley looks at an early version of the next release. It is unimaginably sexy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Grand Nagus on July 19, 2013, 01:55:07 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 19, 2013, 11:01:22 am
GUYS GUYS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9oH49oFlN8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9oH49oFlN8)
Scott Manley looks at an early version of the next release. It is unimaginably sexy.

Good video!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 19, 2013, 03:08:12 pm
Man, can't wait for a campaign mode :)

Are there any mods that come close to it? I remember hearing something about mods that allowed you to harvest resources and so forth?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 19, 2013, 03:54:55 pm
Theres a mod that gives you a budget, money and missions. And then there are mods (like kethane) that add resources.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 19, 2013, 06:05:23 pm
Could I get a name? :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 19, 2013, 07:27:14 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 19, 2013, 03:54:55 pm
Theres a mod that gives you a budget, money and missions. And then there are mods (like kethane) that add resources.
Ohhh money campaign thing, gimme name! pritty please :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 19, 2013, 07:44:13 pm
I think it's called Mission Controller.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vortex Rikers on July 20, 2013, 12:57:09 am
Having only started playing a couple of days ago and after many fiery disasters I've managed to do what was previously thought to be impossible; land on the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I want to spice it up and introduce a couple of mods into the mix but the amount of content is overwhelming, it's like Skyrim all over again. What mods would the community say is must have? I figure Mechjeb and Kerbal Attachment System seem to be way up there which broadly expand the possibilities of what can be done, and Kethane gives you an objective to strive towards. But I'm not sure what else to try.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2013, 02:09:01 am
If you needed that much fuel to orbit Minmus, mun is no go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:15:23 am
Scratch that, I actually had 70% left. So even less. If I were more careful about how I used my fuel, I probably could've landed him again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2013, 02:42:39 am
Then it may be!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 20, 2013, 11:18:23 am
Today's the day! I'm betting on a KSP release very, very soon now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Grand Nagus on July 20, 2013, 11:22:59 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on July 20, 2013, 11:18:23 am
Today's the day! I'm betting on a KSP release very, very soon now.
I bet tomorrow. Today is too much to dream of!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2013, 01:34:40 am
Given how totally silent the devblog has been for almost two weeks now, I'd say they are indeed getting ready for a release sometime soon. I'm betting sometime next week.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 21, 2013, 05:10:26 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.

Extreme EVA is quite the sport. I have diving stations set up around many of the smaller celestial bodies.

If you're interested, EVA landings are possible on: Gilly, Minmus, Bop, and Pol.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 21, 2013, 05:17:44 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on July 21, 2013, 05:10:26 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.

Extreme EVA is quite the sport. I have diving stations set up around many of the smaller celestial bodies.

If you're interested, EVA landings are possible on: Gilly, Minmus, Bop, and Pol.
Interesting, you could place command pods on those planets and in orbit, and have kerbals jump back and forth refueling for sport/fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 21, 2013, 10:20:04 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on July 21, 2013, 05:17:44 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on July 21, 2013, 05:10:26 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.

Extreme EVA is quite the sport. I have diving stations set up around many of the smaller celestial bodies.

If you're interested, EVA landings are possible on: Gilly, Minmus, Bop, and Pol.
Interesting, you could place command pods on those planets and in orbit, and have kerbals jump back and forth refueling for sport/fun.
And for Science! Let's not forget Science!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: zehive on July 22, 2013, 01:24:36 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.
It's either entirely possible to reach a stable mun orbit or just barely impossible, one of the two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on July 22, 2013, 01:49:21 am
Quote from: zehive on July 22, 2013, 01:24:36 am
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 20, 2013, 02:08:12 am
Alright, for the people who were wondering: you can indeed achieve orbit around Minmus using only a jetpack. Hell, it doesn't even need to be full. Starting at, like, 87% in there, I managed to do it with 27% to spare. Don't know about the Mun, though.
It's either entirely possible to reach a stable mun orbit or just barely impossible, one of the two.
I saw a video once where the guy could NOT reach mun orbit, it just barely missed. He used an engine that was turned on and the burn oriented upwards and jumped into the burn to give him the very few extra m/s required and then achieved mun orbit. Getting down though..... not possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 22, 2013, 01:52:23 am
I am trying the mission controller mod.

Turns out I suck at making rocket cheap enough for meeting the space program budget.

 :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 22, 2013, 07:45:02 am
Yeah, I tried it too and failed absolutely miserably!

For the first mission all you need is to get a ship to high altitude - you don't need to achieve orbit! The one after that needs to stay up there at least 4h, and I'm not too sure if you need stable orbit. Either way, liquid engines are insanely expensive, so you might want to try to do the first missions with boosters only.


I'm now trying the Kethane mod. Found some Kethane on Kerbin, and wanted to VTOL a rover over there, but damn, gravity is not helping!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 22, 2013, 12:40:06 pm
With the update almost there and a breaking change in sight, remember to disable steam auto updater if you are on mods and you want to hold a little longer
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2013, 01:45:05 pm
I personally can't wait for the update. I've been upgrading the HarrowJet (as I now call the Space Harrier), but I can't fly it well enough with ASAS as it is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm really digging its new VSTOL functionality. Even loaded with fuel to the brim, it can do a short takeoff, and it's really good at pulling out of dives. Really flies pretty well. I can't get over how well it flies for how good it looks, especially since it uses very little part clipping, and even that only with some structural and aerodynamic parts where necessary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 22, 2013, 11:10:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 22, 2013, 01:52:23 am
I am trying the mission controller mod.

Turns out I suck at making rocket cheap enough for meeting the space program budget.
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 22, 2013, 07:45:02 am
Yeah, I tried it too and failed absolutely miserably!

For the first mission all you need is to get a ship to high altitude - you don't need to achieve orbit! The one after that needs to stay up there at least 4h, and I'm not too sure if you need stable orbit. Either way, liquid engines are insanely expensive, so you might want to try to do the first missions with boosters only.
The trick is to always bring your engines back down safely. I managed to do the first mission with an after recycling cost of 2437 Kerbucks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 23, 2013, 01:21:17 am
but, you bring them all the way up and down, or you chute them and the game goes 'ok'
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 23, 2013, 01:22:04 am
Alright, I think I might've messed something up installing/deleting all those mods...textures missing, kerbal portraits flashing, corrupted text...I think a clean install is in order.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on July 23, 2013, 12:05:32 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/42L5XPM.gif)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 23, 2013, 12:38:10 pm
What? How?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 23, 2013, 12:44:10 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 23, 2013, 12:38:10 pm
What? How?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Brotato on July 23, 2013, 12:49:52 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on July 23, 2013, 12:44:10 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 23, 2013, 12:38:10 pm
What? How?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 23, 2013, 07:06:55 pm
Quote from: ShoesandHats on July 23, 2013, 01:22:04 am
Alright, I think I might've messed something up installing/deleting all those mods...textures missing, kerbal portraits flashing, corrupted text...I think a clean install is in order.
You summoned the Space Kraken. I hope you're proud of yourself.

EDIT: And from the Reddit post of that image (do your research guys jeez)
Quote
[–]ImNapster 82 points 9 hours ago

This camera mod is what I used, I'm controlling everything from that point of view. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/telescoping-hull-camera-2/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2013, 02:38:13 am
http://imgur.com/a/eHerK

So I finally manage to turn my rover into an SSTO. I feel like I've accomplished something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 24, 2013, 06:07:22 am
I am having *the* worst luck making planes :( I wanted a VTOL like thing to drop a mining rover on top of some kethane in Kerbin itself, but so far no luck. Was also thinking of a non-recoverable rocketplane to get there.

None of these work. The VTOLs are really hard to control, and the Kethane is really far, so I'd need quite a bit of range. I am considering going into space and dropping the rover from there, but that's a whole lotta work.

Any tips/good tutorials on space planes or suggestions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2013, 06:14:55 am
VTOLs are, as you said, very hard to control, because there is no thrust vectoring on the little orange engines, and the center of mass changes when you empty out your fuel tanks, so balancing them is very hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 24, 2013, 06:25:36 am
I am currently trying to imagine a way to mix XCOM:EU multiplayer and KSP save sharing to make a 2+ player campaign. It's not easy... Basic rules as it stands are:
1-put beacons all over kerbin to symbolize major cities.
2-alien player launch his UFOs in space using infinite fuel/gravity hack. Around the Mün or further.
3-land near "cities". The journey toward kerbin does not allow infinite fuel or gravity hack.
4- the human player has a limited in-game time to send the Skyranger.
5- XCOM:EU versus battle. Each kerbal represent a particular soldier for the human player, and a given amount of points for the alien.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2013, 09:59:12 am
So I wanted to try bringing a payload to orbit with an SSTO.

I accidentally used the fuel stored in said payload.

Spoiler:  This happened. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on July 24, 2013, 11:01:15 am
That ship is too awesome.
/me explodes: over 9000
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 24, 2013, 11:42:35 am
Man...that makes we want to play KSP again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 24, 2013, 12:00:13 pm
That patch really should come out!

Also, what are the current opinions on asparagus design? They're a pain to do, and I've heard they aren't actually that much better, but didn't follow the discussion through.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on July 24, 2013, 12:35:39 pm
They're way better than normal designs o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2013, 12:56:41 pm
Guys, guys!

Updoot!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 24, 2013, 01:11:11 pm
Asparagus staging is a ton more effective currently.  We'll see what it looks like as the aerodynamic models improve.  The main disadvantage is that it produces wide rockets with a larger profile.

Can you make Big Dumb Boosters with any of the procedural tank mods?  I've got a love affair with the Sea Dragon concept, a BDB designed to lift 550 long tons with a single two stages for dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 24, 2013, 01:15:24 pm
UPDATE TIME!

wait, i cant play it now.
ARRG!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 24, 2013, 01:22:34 pm
Asparagus staging is more effective IRL as well. It's called fuel crossfeeding IRL, and presents a slew of problems that, in KSP, are solved with a single yellow pipeline. But some of the modern spacecraft are starting to solve those problems.

Also, as mentioned, update. Hurray for Steam starting the download automatically, but curse my slow 3G connection!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 24, 2013, 01:24:16 pm
falcon heavy is the first proper asparagus I think

other configuration with liquid strap on tanks use the central engine at a lower thrust.

or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on July 24, 2013, 01:26:41 pm
Falcon Heavy isn't asparagus staging. I'm pretty sure that's just called crossfeeding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 24, 2013, 01:27:49 pm
I am surprised more people dont use 1.5 staging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2013, 01:28:53 pm
Crossfeeding and asparagus staging is the same thing, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2013, 01:29:48 pm
i am quite intrigued that people don't go "fuck this, too complex" and use the good old SRBCANNON design in their shenanigans

put ~400 boosters around your craft, coast to 200 kilometers easily, decouple and go get your orbit ladm8
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 24, 2013, 01:31:11 pm
Dang it, when they gonna release 2.2?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 24, 2013, 01:32:10 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on July 24, 2013, 01:31:11 pm
2.2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 24, 2013, 01:37:29 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on July 24, 2013, 01:31:11 pm
Dang it, when they gonna release 2.2?
I'd say around 2018-2019. Optimistically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on July 24, 2013, 01:37:53 pm
So what's really changed in .21?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 24, 2013, 01:58:30 pm
They've smoothed ASAS, in addition to implementing momentum wheels.  That's probably the biggest gameplay change.

And they're prepping for campaign.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vortex Rikers on July 24, 2013, 02:03:03 pm
Patch notes: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content.php/201-KSP-0-21-is-Here!#comments_start

Quote
* Revised Flight-End scene flow.
In preparation for Career gameplay, we've redesigned the way flights are ended. Gone is the 'End Flight' button in the Pause Menu, cause of many a tale of accidental space station deletion. Now, you'll either get to return to the Space Center (as before), or when applicable, Revert to an earlier state (to launch or to the editors).

 :D :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 02:07:44 pm
Oh hey, shoutout Kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 24, 2013, 02:21:23 pm
I just hired Gillberry Kerman, who has (apparently) zero courage and stupidity, making him, Bob, and Phillbus the Brain Trust of the space program.

The really, really cowardly brain trust.

Plus, Jeb has a small cadre of enthusiastic morons to play with now. It's surprisingly satisfying to plan elaborate crew rosters for my space missions, such as making sure that I have dumb ones to go on EVA and smart ones to fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 24, 2013, 02:41:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 23, 2013, 01:21:17 am
but, you bring them all the way up and down, or you chute them and the game goes 'ok'
The lower stages have to get to space but they don't have to be able to stay there. If you get them up enough to get your upper stage into a stable orbit before the lower stage gets low in the atmosphere you can just switch back to the lower stage and control it on the way down.
(http://i.imgur.com/eCGOHtas.jpg) (http://imgur.com/eCGOHta.jpg)
That's my first cheap satellite orbiter. It costs 26054 kerbucks and has a probe core and parachute on the bottom stage that makes it simple to recover.
(http://i.imgur.com/GIapHGbs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/GIapHGb.png)
That's my current satellite launcher. It costs 10659 kerbucks and when the jet section is recovered it returns 6000-8000 kerbucks. The satellite on top has 2056 m/S delta-V so it can get to pretty much any Kerbin orbit. It uses mechjeb for piloting and burnout prevention in atmosphere so it's arguably cheaty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on July 24, 2013, 02:51:46 pm
Not to mention that part clipping.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on July 24, 2013, 03:31:51 pm
So I just found this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOzbtZAfWM)
Ye gods. :o
EDIT: also hi 0.21, sadly I'm not playing KSP right now but I'll be right with you! <_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 03:58:24 pm
Quick question, if you activate KSP on Steam can you still download the .zip files from the site?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 24, 2013, 04:15:28 pm
Quote from: Twi on July 24, 2013, 03:31:51 pm
So I just found this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOzbtZAfWM)
Ye gods. :o
EDIT: also hi 0.21, sadly I'm not playing KSP right now but I'll be right with you! <_<

dude wat

And here I am, trying to make a plane get off the ground without immediately looping and crashing. Such epicness.............................

Really, the game needs proper docking bays and stuff like that. Although I guess that doesn't quite fit into the more realisticky thing they've got going. I guess I wanted half this, half Battlestar Galactica :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 24, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 03:58:24 pm
Quick question, if you activate KSP on Steam can you still download the .zip files from the site?
no, sorry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 24, 2013, 06:25:57 pm
By the way, Kethane is already available for 0.21 :O

Time to get busy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 24, 2013, 06:27:36 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 03:58:24 pm
Quick question, if you activate KSP on Steam can you still download the .zip files from the site?

You can activate KSP on steam now? Nifty! I'll have to do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 06:59:14 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on July 24, 2013, 04:22:13 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 24, 2013, 03:58:24 pm
Quick question, if you activate KSP on Steam can you still download the .zip files from the site?
no, sorry.
Okay then. I'll just stick with what I have.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 24, 2013, 08:16:58 pm
Anyone have tips on how to recover crew from a landed mission on Kerbin?
For example: I have a splashed down crew pod on the complete other side of the planet from my base, so a retrieval rover is somewhat out of the question, especially since fast forwarding breaks rovers. Would an orbiting space plane work?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on July 24, 2013, 08:35:22 pm
Isn't it possible to make boat-like vehicles?

Or you could just have the Kerbals swim to shore at the fastest time compression.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 24, 2013, 08:42:53 pm
Well there is some boat design on youtube that might help, there is also some mods that introduce parts to make hydro-plane ( water landing plane? ). Or you could make some sort of vtol that can safely float. Your imagination is your limit to be honest.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on July 24, 2013, 09:29:54 pm
I am very much confused by the new ASAS system. I think, if I understand correctly, ASAS and SAS are kind of combined. Anything that says SAS Enabled "functions" like the old ASAS, aka, it provides input to control surfaces and the like.

The other non-rcs parts on the control tab provide torque, which keeps you from spinning I guess?

Either way, unless I am missing something, there seems to be no heading assist any more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 24, 2013, 10:41:40 pm
Torque is spinning. It's just that the difference between spinning and not spinning is entirely dependent on your reference frame.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 25, 2013, 01:41:35 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on July 24, 2013, 08:16:58 pm
Anyone have tips on how to recover crew from a landed mission on Kerbin?
For example: I have a splashed down crew pod on the complete other side of the planet from my base, so a retrieval rover is somewhat out of the question, especially since fast forwarding breaks rovers. Would an orbiting space plane work?
Select it from the tracking station and press 'recover mission'?
[/missingthepoint]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silent_Thunder on July 25, 2013, 02:51:58 am
Spoiler:  So naturally the first thing I do after reinstalling this is a Munar landing (click to show/hide)
Out of fuel, rover upside down with smashed solars, flag at just the right angle to never catch any sun so you need to use floodlights to see it?
Just another KSP Mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 25, 2013, 03:39:21 am
My post-update Mun mission was slightly more successful. I had enough fuel to return, but my parachutes had a nasty habit of ripping the command pod from the engines, and therefore, from the other parachutes, so I'd invariably crash into the water at an absolutely breakneck 18 m/s. So, I orbited instead. Now it's just a matter of sending a rescue ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 25, 2013, 05:30:04 am
I always use nuclear engines when in space, including lunar landings. Are those sideboosters any good for landing on the Mun and getting back into orbit and/or back to Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Snateraar on July 25, 2013, 05:33:15 am
Quote from: Fikes on July 24, 2013, 09:29:54 pm
I am very much confused by the new ASAS system. I think, if I understand correctly, ASAS and SAS are kind of combined. Anything that says SAS Enabled "functions" like the old ASAS, aka, it provides input to control surfaces and the like.

The other non-rcs parts on the control tab provide torque, which keeps you from spinning I guess?

Either way, unless I am missing something, there seems to be no heading assist any more.

I keep flipping over with the new SAS, even with a ship pretty much composed of RCS and control surfaces. And batteries.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 25, 2013, 05:49:55 am
I did only two launches but it seems good for me so far.
Also holy crap the quad coupling engines. I replaced my mainsails by four basi engines on my standard launcher and I gained so much efficiency that the mainsail is going to rust in the hangar from now on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 25, 2013, 07:12:49 am
Really?! I guess I need to try that. My main way of getting things to the Mun right now is a 1+8+16 mainsail setup :P

Also, I just got a nice rover down to the Mun where it proceeded to extract some Kethane! HUZZAH!

The problem of course is that now it doesn't have enough fuel to get back up to wherever because I'm an idiot and didn't put a generator on there. I'm wondering whether I can drop a some generator base next to it. The problem being - how do I transfer fuel? I guess I could do a spider-like thing, the rover gets beneath it, and docks onto a bottom port, then transfers kethane, the base converts it into oxidizer+fuel, and refuels the rover. That could be a thing. Perhaps it can even mine while docked? Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 25, 2013, 07:55:59 am
Bah the new asas work greats to keep things pointed upward but drifts slightly donwards when on planes/horizontal things 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 25, 2013, 10:47:18 am
Quote from: Graknorke on July 25, 2013, 01:41:35 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on July 24, 2013, 08:16:58 pm
Anyone have tips on how to recover crew from a landed mission on Kerbin?
For example: I have a splashed down crew pod on the complete other side of the planet from my base, so a retrieval rover is somewhat out of the question, especially since fast forwarding breaks rovers. Would an orbiting space plane work?
Select it from the tracking station and press 'recover mission'?
[/missingthepoint]
Thats a thing I can do? Oh. Never realized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Snateraar on July 25, 2013, 02:37:25 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 25, 2013, 07:12:49 am
Really?! I guess I need to try that. My main way of getting things to the Mun right now is a 1+8+16 mainsail setup :P

Also, I just got a nice rover down to the Mun where it proceeded to extract some Kethane! HUZZAH!

The problem of course is that now it doesn't have enough fuel to get back up to wherever because I'm an idiot and didn't put a generator on there. I'm wondering whether I can drop a some generator base next to it. The problem being - how do I transfer fuel? I guess I could do a spider-like thing, the rover gets beneath it, and docks onto a bottom port, then transfers kethane, the base converts it into oxidizer+fuel, and refuels the rover. That could be a thing. Perhaps it can even mine while docked? Hmmmm...

Next time, put that Kethane part on your ship that's in the Science tab...It blends Kerbals into about 150 units of Kethane.
Drop a 'rescue crew' nearby, grindy grind and off ye go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 25, 2013, 03:59:58 pm
I think you may be taking human resources a bit too literally.

Then again, it's pretty much par for the course on this forum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 25, 2013, 04:10:01 pm
Quote from: Snateraar on July 25, 2013, 02:37:25 pm
Next time, put that Kethane part on your ship that's in the Science tab...It blends Kerbals into about 150 units of Kethane.
Drop a 'rescue crew' nearby, grindy grind and off ye go.

Well, I never! Bill Kerman is not going to be turned into fuel! I mean, he just got off some pretty tough situations... like this one (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163714674).

Besides, the epic Mun Mining Rover (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163714735) needs no such inkerbane (inhumane) measures. Took quite the remodelling of the carrying vessel, but the conversion station finally made it to the Mun. The landing was calculated with such pinpoint accuracy (it was luck...) that I literally had to boost it an extra not to crash into the rover!!!

After withdrawing some landing struts, driving the rover in (lost an "extra" solar panel by crashing into deployed langing gear), and firing the engines just a tiny bit so the docking ports would connect, mining and conversion operations were commenced (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163714791).

Behold the power of this fully operational Death St... Mun Mining Base (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163714841)!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 25, 2013, 04:47:40 pm
Well, I brought Jebediah down from orbit using a rescue craft. Now for Bob. He got seperated from Jeb when I sent up an earlier iteration of the rescue craft which ran out of fuel, so I have to send another up.

Spoiler: The crew transfer (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 25, 2013, 06:35:24 pm
this is what I am using for all my launches, it is boring as hell as far as design goes, but can bring 100t to the mun with no effort.

Spoiler: an unimmaginative launcher (click to show/hide)

and here is my exploration vessel, built over three sections of about 100t each. coincidence? I THINK NOT!

the lander should be able to land anywhere, drop the two rovers and get back to dock with the vessel.


Spoiler: finally ready for space exploration (click to show/hide)

there's room for improvement, however: the capsule as it is cannot return to kerbin after being spent for a descent, so I have to recover my kerbonaut from orbit each time they return for refuelling the modules and loading a new exploration section.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinlessmoon on July 25, 2013, 07:17:27 pm
PTW.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 26, 2013, 04:25:20 am
LoSboccacc, that's not even asparagus, and the staging thing says you have more than double the amount of engines I can see. I can see a 1+6+6 mainsail, which you see on Stage 3, but what about the 4x6 engines on Stage 1?

Also, how do your launches go? How much power do you give it, and so forth? Or does mechjeb super optimise that for you? I need to use asparagus 1+6+6+6, to get stuff to the moon, and in the end I still have to use some nuclear engines after I've gotten rid of all the mainsails.

I also have some fairly big problems not getting my connectors to go all wobbly. I use docking ports and stack separators like you, and if pushed too hard they just cave in on themselves. I end up setting up a squid tentacle like system... Like this (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=163864841).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 26, 2013, 05:30:29 am
I use an asparagus 1+2+2 and I get to orbit just fine. Then the payload can get to the mun and back. (without landing though)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 26, 2013, 05:31:45 am
My asparagus launcher has 1+2+2+2 mainsails on the bottom, before 7 nukes connected to a jumbo tank, then a single nuke connected to two 1m tanks, and then finally my lander. This got a 30ton rover to Bop

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Archereon on July 26, 2013, 08:33:45 am
You know, I have to say, despite the fact that they don't have any facial hair, kerbals are surprisingly dorfy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2013, 08:51:01 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 26, 2013, 04:25:20 am
LoSboccacc, that's not even asparagus, and the staging thing says you have more than double the amount of engines I can see.

Yes it is. It is heavily staggered so outher layers don't come crashing when separated at a low angle.

The additional engines that shows up are the separatron for the middle layer of rockets.

I fire and forget it with mechjeb, but it works well on manual control, I am just cutting corners as launching gets boring after a while

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on July 26, 2013, 01:42:35 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 26, 2013, 08:51:01 am

I am just cutting corners as launching gets boring after a while


I never thought I'd agree with a statement that included Rocket launches and boring in it. But yes, it does tend to get repetitive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2013, 03:21:08 pm
Maybe I'm weird, but using Mechjeb always bugs me. I hate not having control over the flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on July 26, 2013, 03:31:27 pm
Spoiler: People, I think I found Jeb's brother. (click to show/hide)
It even looks like he has derp eyes.

Though, how exactly do kinship and surnames work in Kerbal society? By 'common' human standard, we could see every kerbonaut as brothers, but doesn't seem likely. Maybe it works like old Italian names (Or at least how I think they work?), with town of origin being part of the name? Are all the Kerbals from the City of Kerman?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 26, 2013, 03:33:02 pm
This is what happens when you let fabulous viking Kerbals onto spaceships.
They sit around and laugh maniacally. Harmless really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 26, 2013, 03:39:32 pm
the wasp overlord is anything but harmless
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 26, 2013, 03:50:40 pm
Quote from: Mageziya on July 26, 2013, 03:31:27 pm
Though, how exactly do kinship and surnames work in Kerbal society? By 'common' human standard, we could see every kerbonaut as brothers, but doesn't seem likely.

It is likely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 26, 2013, 04:43:33 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 26, 2013, 03:39:32 pm
the wasp overlord is anything but harmless

Ummmmm..... Wrong thread?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 26, 2013, 05:00:42 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on July 26, 2013, 04:43:33 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 26, 2013, 03:39:32 pm
the wasp overlord is anything but harmless

Ummmmm..... Wrong thread?
I was wondering what kind of patch I missed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 26, 2013, 05:29:42 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on July 26, 2013, 05:00:42 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on July 26, 2013, 04:43:33 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 26, 2013, 03:39:32 pm
the wasp overlord is anything but harmless

Ummmmm..... Wrong thread?
I was wondering what kind of patch I missed.

the descan patch. DOES DESCAN EVEN FREQUENT THIS THREAD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 29, 2013, 07:01:54 am
I got my first circular orbit.
HELL FUCKING YES.

It's at 85km above Kerbin, and great god did I go trough hell to make it work. Maybe the rocket I'm using is inefficient, but it works after I strut it up a LOT. It still sways in all directions when using the bottom mainsail stage, but at least the top doesn't almost break off because it sways in different directions. I have a center mainsail that EXPLODES when I loosen the others, BUT I FUCKING DID IT.

E: And now I have used my newly-aquired skills to set up a Kethane detector on polar orbit :v
I probably won't use it for a long time, but woo, usefull sattelites.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Svampapa on July 29, 2013, 08:38:33 am
Right click on the troublesome mainsail and "lock gimbal". Provided you got some other way to steer (RCS/Winglets) that might reduce some wobble woes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 29, 2013, 09:37:08 am
I've got 4 mainsails and orange tanks attached to a center mainsail with decouplers, I fire up the outer ones first, decouple them and fire up the inner ones. I solved the middle one being smashed to pieces with some seperatrons. It caused a lot of trouble because most of the struts that kept the thing from snapping like a twig were on the outer ones. I fixed that too, tough. I now have a Kethane scanning sattelite in polar orbit, woo. (not that I'll be using Kethane anytime soon, but woo anyway)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 29, 2013, 10:12:55 am
I think orange tanks are still bugged - they overheat way too much. If you can replace them with two half-sized grey ones you'll be able to boost the ascent a ton more!

Also, congratulations :D

I actually found it easier to set up Kethane mining operations on the moon because of the lower gravity, so perhaps that's something to aim for. I simply could not get a mining thing going on Kerbin...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 29, 2013, 10:14:38 am
Yeah, they I found out they still overheat. I added the smallest rockomax tanks under the orange tanks and connected them with struts. That may be the thing causing the wobble, actually, but there's too much struts to go back now.

E: Using another rocket with asparagus design now. Asparagus rockets are incredibly efficient :O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 29, 2013, 02:54:02 pm
How big of a decoupler? Also, are you using sepatrons to disconnect?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 29, 2013, 02:59:26 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 29, 2013, 10:12:55 am
I think orange tanks are still bugged - they overheat way too much.

The trick with the orange cans is that they are so large, and their center origin so far from the attachment node, the engine underneath can't detect what it is attached to. Two big grey tanks work, but I usually stick the small grey tank above the engine. Either should deal with the overheating issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 29, 2013, 03:09:22 pm
What also works, rather amusingly, is a tiny octagonal strut connector. They're strong enough to support an entire engine, and are also tiny.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 29, 2013, 03:12:57 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 29, 2013, 02:54:02 pm
How big of a decoupler? Also, are you using sepatrons to disconnect?
Rockomax size over all the rocket except the payload, which is my standard unmanned probe thingie.
And yeah, it blows up without seperatrons.
I'm using a big orange tank with a half-sized one underneath on the bottom. I currently have one in orbit that I may try to send to Mun orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 29, 2013, 05:32:05 pm
So I have found an extremely promising plugin (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29387-Plugin-0-20-2-KerbCom-Avionics-0-2-0-1-%28July-2013%29-includes-VTOL-balancing)

What does it do?

It automagically adjusts the thrust output of all of your main engines to keep the center of thrust pointing through your center of gravity. This effectively makes assymetric designs possible, as well as making VTOL so much easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 29, 2013, 05:46:33 pm
Ohhh shiney cant wait for them to support engine gimbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 29, 2013, 05:52:39 pm
So... Scott Manley made it to minmus and back with a 2 ton vehicle.

I am awed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgjlZeujws
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 29, 2013, 06:04:10 pm
Today's XKCD is about KSP. Well, sort of.
http://xkcd.com/1244/ Link so that the future can know what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 29, 2013, 06:44:54 pm
Quote from: Japa on July 29, 2013, 05:32:05 pm
So I have found an extremely promising plugin (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29387-Plugin-0-20-2-KerbCom-Avionics-0-2-0-1-%28July-2013%29-includes-VTOL-balancing)

What does it do?

It automagically adjusts the thrust output of all of your main engines to keep the center of thrust pointing through your center of gravity. This effectively makes assymetric designs possible, as well as making VTOL so much easier.
Trying this out now. It looks very very nice!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on July 30, 2013, 01:41:17 am
DAMMIT.
My first moho rover has nearly no fuel left and 4km/s of delta-v to do in order to achieve orbit.

I'm f*cked. Guess I have to redesign the thing, with more fuel.

And it took me so much time to put this thing there.... argh!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 30, 2013, 07:18:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Progress! Not the best orbit for Kethane scanning, but good enough for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on July 30, 2013, 08:49:43 am
Started from scratch.

Rovers!
Spoiler: Munrover Mk I (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Munrover Mk III (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Munrover Mk IV-K AKA "The Kerbal Bus" (click to show/hide)

All landed with a skycrane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 30, 2013, 11:16:29 am
Yeah, I need to do a kethane powered skycrane at some point! What's your skycrane design like? Also - your rovers need more lights!

Also, miauw, looks like you can just drop a rover anywhere on that Mun and start getting some Kethane!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on July 30, 2013, 11:41:02 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 30, 2013, 11:16:29 am
Yeah, I need to do a kethane powered skycrane at some point! What's your skycrane design like? Also - your rovers need more lights!
Spoiler: They do have lights, except Mk I. (click to show/hide)
I must hold the first Munar rave party with my 12 nuclear reactors.

Spoiler: Basic skycrane (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Launching 17 Kerbals to colonize the Mun. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Landing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mission Successful (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Kerbal Bus is fully loaded. (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 30, 2013, 12:43:29 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA, aw man, that Kerbal bus is hilarious :D Love it! :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 30, 2013, 04:02:58 pm
They look so happy...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 31, 2013, 06:36:02 am
How many can you fit in one bus?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on July 31, 2013, 06:54:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on July 31, 2013, 06:36:02 am
How many can you fit in one bus?
In the current model it's 6 Kerbals + 1 Driver. Although in theory I could fit 6 more in the front but that would remove HAL the remote guidance system.
The passengers also all sit next to 6 nuclear reactors. So for the rave parties on the Mun, you become the glow stick.

Spoiler: They now have an escape vehicle! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Brought to them by this 15-stage monstrosity (click to show/hide)
This one took way longer than it should have.
First iteration: Skycrane using too much fuel. Added extra transfer stage to conserve Skycrane fuel.
Second iteration: Escape vehicle has too little fuel. Added more payload fuel and increased Skycrane fuel to compensate.
Final iteration: Lifter inefficient. Added extra Asparagus stage to elongate lift.

Learned a bit more about precise manual landing, though!

Spoiler: Solar eclipse! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Just a little farther and I would've buzzed the tower (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: MunComm Sat (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: MunComm Hub (click to show/hide)
This one could've probably used a nuclear reactor to compensate for time on the dark side. I hope the Kerbals brought power cables and a dynamo or something.

Spoiler: IN THE NAME OF SPACE CTHULHU I WILL GET THIS TO THE MUN! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 31, 2013, 10:29:02 am
The eclipse is beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on July 31, 2013, 03:22:35 pm
Spoiler: Unsuccessful test flight (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Kerbin orbit! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Refueling tanks (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Transfer stage docked (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: To the Mun and beyond! (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Munar orbit! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Skycrane docked (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Burn that horizontal! BURN! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Falinesti has landed! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flag, set, go. Off to wave at the other Kerbals. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: All your base are belong to us and ours is bigger (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 31, 2013, 03:50:38 pm
Damn, that thing is big!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 31, 2013, 04:16:35 pm
0.21 elevation maps. More will be added as I get to more planets. (http://imgur.com/a/3yKNw)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 31, 2013, 04:20:11 pm
Good grief, I love me some KSP screenshots.... I really mean that, the game is so epic, even on a smaller scale! It gives such a great feeling of achievement!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 02, 2013, 09:18:59 am
I... I think I had an idea. Not that I'll be able to do it anytime soon, since I suck at KSP. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113434.msg3457271#msg3457271)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 02, 2013, 09:35:32 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 02, 2013, 09:18:59 am
I... I think I had an idea. Not that I'll be able to do it anytime soon, since I suck at KSP. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113434.msg3457271#msg3457271)
How very vague of you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 02, 2013, 09:53:00 am
Probably something along the lines of a Community Space Program. I think we already had collaborative station building around here, no?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 02, 2013, 09:59:23 am
Something along the lines of "try to make the B12 space program real in KSP".
Which may or may not be impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 02, 2013, 11:16:10 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 02, 2013, 09:59:23 am
Something along the lines of "try to make the B12 space program real in KSP".
Which may or may not be impossible.

everything is possible when you abuse MODS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 02, 2013, 12:18:16 pm
Try it without. Its more interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on August 02, 2013, 01:56:30 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 02, 2013, 12:18:16 pm
Try it without. Its more interesting.
Although I wouldn't mind Alarm Clock and Subassembly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on August 02, 2013, 02:52:08 pm
The best of the best. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1jkk9d/we_want_the_best_of_the_best_type_a_personalities/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 02, 2013, 04:24:05 pm
Quote from: da_nang on August 02, 2013, 01:56:30 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 02, 2013, 12:18:16 pm
Try it without. Its more interesting.
Although I wouldn't mind Alarm Clock and Subassembly.
I havent tried those yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on August 05, 2013, 12:32:58 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 02, 2013, 04:24:05 pm
Quote from: da_nang on August 02, 2013, 01:56:30 pm
I wouldn't mind Alarm Clock and Subassembly.
I havent tried those yet.
They are both excellent.

In other modding news, Hooligan Labs is now making a submarine mod. Controllable submersibles may finally see the light of day!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 05, 2013, 01:26:11 pm
I wonder if they will eventually become official... You know, to explore the seas of other worlds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on August 05, 2013, 02:35:26 pm
It would sure be great. Exploring the depths of Laythe while panning a camera that works underwater...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 05, 2013, 11:33:41 pm
New article in Gamasutra about making the new props: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ArtyomZuev/20130731/197365/Environment_art_and_modeling_in_Kerbal_Space_Program.php
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 06, 2013, 10:18:11 pm
The new version of Mission Control nerfed jet engines hard by raising their price to about 34000. This has led me to make some new ultra-cheep designs.
(http://i.imgur.com/NQvNWJEs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/NQvNWJE.png)
I tried that one before any of the mods were updated to see if I could make a teeny tiny asparagus with the new engine. It turns out that there's some issues with those tanks' fuel flow that makes it so it doesn't work like a normal asparagus staging rocket. The fuel can flow from the center tanks outward and the engines that should run out of fuel first keep going.
(http://i.imgur.com/FR9io3js.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/FR9io3j.jpg)
That one is OK-ish but wastes a massive amount of dV due to atmospheric friction.
(http://i.imgur.com/ftJifhts.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ftJifht.jpg)
That's the one I currently use for most lifts. The booster gets the main engine up enough to be quite efficient. I'm still using the old engine for the satellite itself because while the new one is more efficient it's also much heavier.

EDIT: Those were taken in Mission Controller Extended (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/43645-%280-21%29-Mission-Controller-Extended-%28Version-15%29-%28FORK%29-%28ALPHA%29) 0.12. The current version is 0.16 and most of the costs have changed but the relative usefulness of the above designs doesn't seem to have changed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on August 07, 2013, 04:34:14 am
With that mod wouldnt it e best to simply make a SSTO that can deploy small to medium payload? I mean the only thing you will really pay would be fuel no? since you bring back everything exept the fuel + payload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 07, 2013, 05:55:28 am
Go stock. I find it's the best thing to really flex your creative muscles. If you want to make an "easy mode" SSTO, then remember - the effectiveness is proportional to the amount of lift, and the amount of air intakes. Make an aircraft that can fly on two or three turbojets, then give it enough rockets to produce at least as much thrust (more the merrier), give it enough wings/lifting surfaces to take off easily in those conditions, then cram as many intakes on it as you can. At least five or six per engine will do. Make sure it controls well and has RCS. Add an action group to toggle all of your jet engines and air intakes simultaneously. Add an action group to toggle your rockets as well. Your goal is to take off and reach as high an altitude and speed on turbojets as you can - you'll be flying pretty much level by the end of the ascent. Once you can't keep the jets running anymore (with that setup it'll be at around 30Km and some five times the speed of sound), fire rockets, cut jets, and pitch up (with RCS). Get out of the rest of the atmosphere as fast as possible, wait till your apoapsis is at 100km or thereabouts, cut rockets, coast until you're in space, and circularize.

That's if you want a spaceplane SSTO.

For a rocket SSTO you just need a gaggle of fuel tanks and aerospikes. Keep the acceleration around two G's during ascent, and just plain fly up into orbit.

And yes, you're not spending anything but fuel with an SSTO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 07, 2013, 06:21:45 am
Assuming you don't mess up, that is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on August 07, 2013, 08:32:55 am
A note when using Mechjeb and SSTOs: Mechjeb assumes that all engines that are not on the current stage will be used, but on the current stage it only counts the ones that are enabled. So for proper mechjeb readouts, press space once on the runway to turn on all of your engines, then turn off all the ones you don't want. THEN turn on throttle. This will allow Mechjeb to correctly account for things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 07, 2013, 12:22:44 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on August 07, 2013, 04:34:14 am
With that mod wouldnt it e best to simply make a SSTO that can deploy small to medium payload? I mean the only thing you will really pay would be fuel no? since you bring back everything exept the fuel + payload.
It doesn't quite work like that.
(http://i.imgur.com/CaUCeKAs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/CaUCeKA.jpg)
There's what I was using. It's technically not a SSTO since it just lifts the payload satellite up into almost-orbit and the satellite lifts its own periapsis out of the atmosphere and the jet stage falls back down to be recovered. Since it only has to get the satellite into orbit it can carry less oxydizer and a smaller space engine than a SSTO would. The price for jet engines has dropped since 0.12 so it's back to being sometimes more efficient than my rocket-only lifter.

When you recover a stage you get back a percentage of the cost of that stage. You get less of the cost back if it lands in water than if it lands on land. In the old Mission Controller it also counted fuel but I havn't checked in Mission Controller Extended. The v0.16 net cost (take away payload cost and recover return) for the jet lifter is ~4807 for land recover and ~11164 for water recover. For the rocket only lifter it's 6600.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 07, 2013, 02:30:56 pm
You could easily use a reusable launcher by including a docking adapter and docking struts or quantum struts on top to stabilize the load, then use something like an airship to load the payload to the launcher and to refuel it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 07, 2013, 02:41:56 pm
I.E. Scott Manly style?

As long as there is no deadly reentry it should work...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on August 08, 2013, 10:03:21 pm
So, I made this vessel that I have no idea how to get to orbit. One of the configurations involved a Mainsail attached through a spare drone docking port.

A bad idea never stops a test flight! Immediately, it began to wobble violently. Soon after, it began to spin around. This mainsail weed whacker soon after destroyed all the other engines mounted nearby, before finally breaking off and soaring away.

It was hilarious. Everyone died.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 09, 2013, 02:03:41 am
Quote from: Kanil on August 08, 2013, 10:03:21 pm
So, I made this vessel that I have no idea how to get to orbit. One of the configurations involved a Mainsail attached through a spare drone docking port.

A bad idea never stops a test flight! Immediately, it began to wobble violently. Soon after, it began to spin around. This mainsail weed whacker soon after destroyed all the other engines mounted nearby, before finally breaking off and soaring away.

It was hilarious. Everyone died.
Pics? I'm wondering if I could manage it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on August 09, 2013, 03:13:43 am
Probably. Given that all of the docking bays are currently empty, it ends up being a fair bit lighter than it looks, making it less difficult than it might seem. It's still definitely the most absurd thing I've ever launched (or at least, have tried to)... but it should be doable.

It's not very symmetrical, though. That poses a bit of a challenge.

Spoiler: Practicality Optional (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 09, 2013, 03:17:10 am
What are the long bits on the sides?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on August 09, 2013, 03:43:24 am
The lit up things? Basically overglorified kerbal storage modules. This is going to be the mothership for a manned Jool mission, so lots of living space is critical (and by critical, I mean 100% superficial.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 09, 2013, 03:45:38 am
Have you tried the Kerbal Avionics mod? It works decently for uneven engine setups. It's still in development though.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/29387-0-21-x-KerbCom-Avionics-0-3-0-1-Alpha-%286-August%29-gimbal-support-bugfixes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on August 09, 2013, 03:50:09 am
Not yet, but I probably will have to for the interplanetary section. Once I've docked everything to it, it'll likely be even less symmetrical, and I won't have the center of mass/thrust displays to help me out -- and of course, no wings to keep it going straight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 12, 2013, 02:10:52 am
I did some more work on my cheap orbiter for Mission Controller and made this.
(http://i.imgur.com/wwWbEQPs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/wwWbEQP.jpg)
Engineer lies about the dV for the jet stage, it can actually do closer to 4000. The jet stage recovers 20000 for splashdown or 27000 for touchdown. The stack design is actually slightly more dV efficient than asparagus staging. I used this to complete Kerbolo II (escape from the Sun's gravity carrying 3 long antenna and all 4 sensors) with 3241dV to spare. For smaller lifts I take off fuel until I'm satisfied with its abilities.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 07:55:51 am
Spoiler: Practicing slingshots (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Decent slingshot (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Just passing by, Mun. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minmus Orbit achieved (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minmus claimed (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Flyable, but probably needs more space tape. That wobble is terrifying. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Not quite there but beautiful orbits nonetheless. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Much better! (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The MunRover V-K, "MinBus", has landed. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: It may have suffered a design flaw. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And lacks the power and/or traction to climb hills on low-gravity worlds. (click to show/hide)

The MinBus is... wierd. It randomly explodes/superbounces on loading and the game continuously thinks it's about to crash into Minmus. It should be decently drivable on Minmus at relatively high speeds with the wide base, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 12, 2013, 08:24:09 am
I need a  bit of advice on changing my orbital inclination. I can't really figure out how to do it manually without fucking up my orbit completely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on August 12, 2013, 08:52:47 am
In any orbit, even very skewed ones, there's two points in which you pass the equator line. When you get there, burn straight north or south. That fixes it pretty fast :)

I've also only been to the Mun yet... I need to learn slingshotting as well!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 12, 2013, 10:37:26 am
burning straight north or south will fix lightly skewed inclinations, but say if you wanted to go from a 90 degree inclination to 0, that wouldn't help at all. You need to burn perpendicular (across, at 90 degrees) to your orbital path. As you burn, your path will change, so you'll need to change your heading as well. It's not easy to do perfectly without autopilot, but it's not complicated either as long as you've got the fuel to clean up a little bit of sloppy piloting(it's a very wasteful maneuver usually, better to launch at the right inclination) After you're done, you can clean up your orbit with prograde/retrograde burns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 12, 2013, 12:21:23 pm
For more extreme orbit changes you can raise your apoapsis until you'll move very slowly at that point, wait until you get there, and burn retrograde until you come to a near stop. After that you can burn into any orbit you want.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 01:05:36 pm
Quote from: Leonon on August 12, 2013, 12:21:23 pm
For more extreme orbit changes you can raise your apoapsis until you'll move very slowly at that point, wait until you get there, and burn retrograde until you come to a near stop. After that you can burn into any orbit you want.
But it has its limits. A full orbit reversal for a circular orbit will only be 58.6% ((2 - √2)*100%) more efficient at most compared to doing it at the original orbital radius. You'll of course hit SOI before that but 50% will occur at an orbital "work" radius which is eight times the original orbial radius (when both are calculated from the center of the orbital body).

Although for any given inclination change, the delta-v required will be the same as doing a full orbit reversal by the same method. However, the efficiency will most likely be different (decreasing I'd conjecture).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on August 12, 2013, 02:26:42 pm
(http://img.ie/images/zndps.png)

I can't believe this works. But it does. Takes off damn near instantly, though landing it is more challenging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on August 12, 2013, 03:24:03 pm
I don't.. What? How? That should never be able to fly. Like, ever. That's too cute to fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 04:03:46 pm
Jebediah looses a roaring laughter, fell and terrible!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on August 12, 2013, 04:33:04 pm
Quote from: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 04:03:46 pm
Jebediah looses a roaring laughter, fell and terrible!
I can has sig?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 04:59:45 pm
Quote from: Twi on August 12, 2013, 04:33:04 pm
Quote from: da_nang on August 12, 2013, 04:03:46 pm
Jebediah looses a roaring laughter, fell and terrible!
I can has sig?
Go ahead. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on August 15, 2013, 12:30:10 pm
Sounds like Jeb found out about where Kethane comes from (https://github.com/Majiir/Kethane/wiki/KE%E2%80%93WAITNONOSTOP%E2%80%9301-Kerbal-Unreconstitutionator).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 15, 2013, 01:39:55 pm
Jebediah Kerman has claimed a Vehicle Assembly Building!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on August 18, 2013, 07:00:41 pm
I recently sent a probe to Jool and did what one normally does around Jool, Take pictures.

I should mention this is my first time getting anything to Jool.

Spoiler: Photogenic Probe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: +Laythe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Jool and Tylo (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: A futile attempt to orbit Tylo (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And Tylo now appears to have a Moonlet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Technical info, plus orbit. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on August 19, 2013, 01:37:39 am
A moon with a moon? Intriguing... maybe I should set up the moon-moon kethane factory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on August 19, 2013, 02:09:39 pm
We must go  deeper. (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120921053937/mspaintadventures/images/thumb/6/6c/Pink_moon_05214.png/180px-Pink_moon_05214.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on August 19, 2013, 09:41:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A model of how Kerbals perform surgery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on August 19, 2013, 10:25:50 pm
Could you spoiler those?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 19, 2013, 11:14:21 pm
You know when a game just is so bleh or meh that it makes you want to play another game thats like it but better? I dont have that.
I have when a game is so cool, that it makes you want to play a similar game, and then that game makes you want to play the game you started with? And so on?

I have that with KSP and Aurora. And I like it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on August 21, 2013, 07:12:54 pm
Kerbin City community project. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/46643-Kerbin-City-community-development-project-phase-A)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 22, 2013, 04:02:42 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on August 21, 2013, 07:12:54 pm
Kerbin City community project. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/46643-Kerbin-City-community-development-project-phase-A)
impressive  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 31, 2013, 03:30:42 pm
Kerbin city has had a release!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 31, 2013, 03:48:35 pm
Woo!
Woo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 31, 2013, 06:19:17 pm
Spoiler: launchapds with kethane and ore drillers (click to show/hide)

I've built my first ugly but self sufficient colony!

Now I can build on the colony itself the crafts to build a better colony :)

Quote from: Aseaheru on August 31, 2013, 03:48:35 pm
Woo!
Woo?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/47666-Kerbin-City-OPENS!-Build-1

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 01, 2013, 09:38:53 am
So my friend couldn't get into orbit.  We turned on skype and screen sharing, and I showed her how to build a stable rocket.  Then she asked about Mechjeb...

I turned on my screenshare, and built...
Cockpit + parachutes
Solid Booster
Decoupler
Long 1m Fuel
Nuclear Engine
Decoupler
1m -> 3m structural cone
3m Large Orange Fuel + 6x Asparagus
Mainsail

Using Mechjeb 2.  I showed her how it'll get into a 100m orbit easily, and got my nuclear drive, solid booster, and capsule up with ~3/4 fuel tank left.  She said "Impress me" so I said "Let's go to Eve."  With ~1,500 Delta V on my nuclear drive, I set up an interception for Mun, tapping and tugging the maneuver node to get a crash course.  I let Mechjeb take us to the sphere of influence change, then set an immediate maneuver to bring periapsis to 5km.  It did perfectly, and we passed so close to the surface of Mun that I actually pulled in my solar panels and angled my ship because I was afraid of hitting a mountain!  Luckily, being so close gave a SUPERB gravity boost, and we quickly left the sphere of influence of Mun, and then Kerbin, entering a Solar orbit.  Using Mechjeb, I then set up an inclination change and Homman transfer, but alas ran out of fuel halfway through the Homman!

So what's a little Jebediah to do?  Stuck on a single solid rocket booster in solar orbit...  Well, I said I was getting to Eve didn't I?  I did a quick google, the stage had ~1,275 Delta V left, an SRB burns for 30 seconds, and Eve has an atmosphere.  So I made a maneuver node, and set it to "Retrograde 1,275" to try and drop orbit far enough for an Eve intercept.  Then played with the time, pushing the maneuver node forwards and backwards by 10's of minutes, then 1's of minutes, then by the seconds, until it would show an intercept that had no periapsis - a collision with Eve.  I time warped to the node, waited until T - 15s and burned the solid rocket.

With parachutes deployed, we slam into the atmosphere of Eve at something like 15km/s or so.  Thankfully the SRB is on the bottom, and takes most of the atmospheric shock as it rapidly slows down at over 15 G-Forces (that's as high as the meter foes!), the solar panels rip off, the chutes deploy, and the capsule touches down - detaching from the SRB with the force of landing at 2.5m/s and leaving the capsule on a slight hill on the surface of Eve.

And that's when I realize that Mechjeb is placed directly over the capsule door, and that we've taken Jebediah, and welded him inside a tin can using Mechanical Jebediah.  My friend muttered, "That's dark."

So that's how, at 2am, I managed to get a fairly rickety, tall ship into orbit, slingshot so close to the Mun I probably could have sheared off my engine, ran out of fuel, and performed a Homman transfer using an SRB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 01, 2013, 09:45:25 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 01, 2013, 09:38:53 am
<snip>
"MechJeb, let me open the pod bay door!"
"I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Jeb."

:)

Neat little mission. Send someone with another ship to smack MJ off the doors. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 01, 2013, 09:55:45 am
I actually debated attempting a low-speed collision to break it off.  But in my 2am stupor I just X'd out and lost the mission...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 01, 2013, 10:42:03 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 01, 2013, 09:45:25 am
"MechJeb, let me open the pod bay door!"
"I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Jeb."
Omg so sigged.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 01, 2013, 01:19:44 pm
I think (math is hard!)
that because of the oberth effect slingshotting with mun is less efficient that burning directly to intercept in low kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 01, 2013, 03:47:47 pm
I think that it was proven that it was either a waste or a savings of 1 or something sad like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on September 02, 2013, 12:15:48 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 01, 2013, 03:47:47 pm
I think that it was proven that it was either a waste or a savings of 1 or something sad like that.
Still, it's worth doing for the Wow! factor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 02, 2013, 02:41:56 pm
I am so very, very happy right now. I finally got Mun orbit. Pics later. I really should be doing homework instead of rocket science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 02, 2013, 03:40:37 pm
I recently bought the full version of this game, and while some things became a great success, others I feel aren't working as I think they should.

I'm good with rockets it seems.  Experience with the old alpha versions probably helped there. I got a satellite into orbit on my first attempt (second if you don't count the one I sent up that I forgot to deploy the solar panels on before it was out of juice), and I also 'sorta' got a satellite in Mun orbit ('sorta' as in the game crashed on orbit transition, and wasn't there when I got back, but I had plenty of fuel left).

But I can't seem to make a spaceplane that can actually get into orbit.  If it carries enough fuel to power the rockets for more than a few seconds it's either too heavy to take off, it's center of lift vs center of mass is all wrong and it does backflips off the end of the runway, or both.  What am I doing wrong?

Spoiler: This is the best design I have so far, it can usually take off and goes up to 18000 on jets alone.  But it still can't reach space. (click to show/hide)

(also how do you make space stations?  Those look awesome.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 02, 2013, 03:50:36 pm
To get a space station, you basically lift the parts.  For the most part, that means you take a fuel container, and put a docking clamp on the top or bottom.  You then lift it up, detach it, and leave it there.  The next ship that comes up has its own docking clamp, and can dock to siphon fuel off.  Or attach a new segment.

Spaceplanes are an arcane art.  I cannot offer any help to you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on September 02, 2013, 03:51:39 pm
Quote
I recently bought the full version of this game

Really? I thought it wasn't done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 02, 2013, 03:51:51 pm
I have a massive rocket base that can get to Kerbin orbit. Then I just add a part of the spacestation on top, and lots of struts to keep it secure. When I get up there, I just detach it. Then you rinse'n'repeat with different parts. They attach via docking ports, preferably 2 or 3 at a time, so you get nice alignment :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 02, 2013, 03:57:14 pm
Quote from: Neonivek on September 02, 2013, 03:51:39 pm
Quote
I recently bought the full version of this game

Really? I thought it wasn't done.
By full version he means non-demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 02, 2013, 03:59:04 pm
My favorite is to build a 'starbase' which implies some movement.  Basically a space station that also has enough rockets to move around.  The easiest way to do this, to me, is to put one of those 6-sided-connectors with docking on all sides, a long fuel canister, and then another 6-way-with-docking.  Then do a similar setup, with a rocket on the bottom.  So you can put 4 of them on each side and get some pretty impressive thrust.  You basically build your ship in orbit!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 02, 2013, 04:00:10 pm
Quote from: Neonivek on September 02, 2013, 03:51:39 pm
Quote
I recently bought the full version of this game

Really? I thought it wasn't done.
Well the version that costs $20 and has other planets, spaceplanes, and doesn't run like a slideshow.  :P

Thanks for the advice, I think I may have to just give up on a spaceplane for now and build a nice little space refueling dock to crash into at high speed the first time I try to use it.  That sounds easier.  I already have a rocket base I use for my satellites.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 02, 2013, 04:19:11 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
WEEEEEE

first working "spaceplane". I'm so proud :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 02, 2013, 04:31:35 pm
As far as I can see, there are two design philosophies to the 'spaceplane', 1.) Is making and incredibly light/efficient plane with a high thrust/mass ratio and 2.) is just strappin' a regular ole plane on to big rockets, then detaching said rockets in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on September 02, 2013, 04:32:41 pm
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on September 02, 2013, 04:31:35 pm
As far as I can see, there are two design philosophies to the 'spaceplane', 1.) Is making and incredibly light/efficient plane with a high thrust/mass ratio and 2.) is just strappin' a regular ole plane on to big rockets, then detaching said rockets in space.

Just like in real life.

Mind you in real life #1 is a orbiting spaceship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 02, 2013, 06:23:45 pm
I don't use space planes per-se but I lots of experience with SSTO's that use jets for atmospheric propulsion so these tips should apply to spaceplanes too.

First off, use MechJeb (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/47317) and (optionally) Engineer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/18230). Mechjeb can control your heading and pitch much better than the current stock SAS. Engineer will let you watch your orbital numbers in real time. Mechjeb can also control your throttle much more finely than you can and can prevent flame outs all the way out of atmosphere. Here (http://i.imgur.com/DqNbA0B.jpg) is what my set up looks like when launching.

For the design, like Urist McScoopbeard said, make it as light and efficient as possible. Especially the space stage, you souldn't need very much engine at all once you're up there. Since you're going to be spending most of your in-atmosphere time at 20km-40km only use turbojets since they're more efficient at that altitude and don't require cooling. One common trick for air intakes is to put cubic octagonal struts on the side of your craft and attach Ram intakes to them or to stack cubic octagonal struts inside each other and attach circular intakes to them. To get a good idea what's possible go though the MachingBird challenge thread (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/27296) on the KSP forums. Some of the designs are just obscene (http://i.imgur.com/kKYBIb5.jpg).

When flying you'll want to get up to 10km as quickly as possible then slowly level off until your apoapsis is 20km. Engineer is great for watching your apoapsis while doing this part. From there on you'll want to keep the angle at about 5 degrees. Then it works mostly like bringing a standard rocket to orbit. As you gain speed your apoapsis and periapsis will raise until eventually your periapsis will be just below you and your apoapsis will shoot up. The goal is to use as much of your jet stage's fuel and as little of your space stage's fuel as possible before exiting the atmosphere just below 70km. When you exit the atmosphere completely your periapsis should be around 40km-60km and your apoapsis should be somewhere above 100km. This should make it so your space stage only needs 100dV-200dV to get into a stable orbit.

EDIT: I have shift+space set to start playing Winamp and pressed it while trying to launch. Guess what song it was on. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 02, 2013, 09:01:30 pm
My luck with spaceplanes has improved with your advice.  I didn't get the addons yet, as I didn't want to have to restart the game. But I will before my next session. I got a spaceplane in what I thought was an orbit but as it approached the low point in the orbit it lost speed rapidly.  I guess the low point was still in atmosphere.

Just as well I guess.  I used all the oxidizer getting up there, so if it hadn't come back down on it's own Bob would have become a permanent resident.

After that failure I looked up the atmospheric distance and used a vertical rocket to park a fuel station with tanks and a docking node in a circular orbit of about 71000m.  Soon.  Soon I will have a space plane able to dock with it, then the universe will be my oyster.

I also saved the design for the fuel station launcher, because I am almost certain to crash into the thing at high speed many many times before I get docking down.  It seems like it would be a lot like landing, except everyone involved is traveling at 5000 miles per hour.

EDIT: With the assistance of Mechjeb I got the same plane into a slowly degrading orbit.  Tops out at 300km, bottoms out at 58km so if I understand it right he'll eventually come down to earth as the low end of the orbit enters really thin atmosphere and slows him a bit.  Might take a few orbits though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 02, 2013, 10:41:00 pm
Quote from: Greiger on September 02, 2013, 09:01:30 pm
I also saved the design for the fuel station launcher, because I am almost certain to crash into the thing at high speed many many times before I get docking down.  It seems like it would be a lot like landing, except everyone involved is traveling at 5000 miles per hour.
Na, more likely you don't even get anywhere near close enough to hit it. :P

Though the real trick to docking, beyond knowing generally how to do a rough intercept in orbit, is realizing that when you get close and have it targeted, the velocity & trackball switch to being relative to the target vehicle. Thus it's actually fairly easy to zero out relative velocities and come in real slow on linear RCS. Also, be sure you have RCS, or you probably won't be docking any time soon. Believe me, I've done it once or twice, docking without RCS is not something you ever want to try, and takes like an hour and a half to get right, assuming you don't both end up exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 02, 2013, 11:00:02 pm
I wish extraplanetary launchpads wasn't so horribly ugly. I've tried using kethane models with Ore instead of Kethane in the kethane_extractor (or whatever) module. It doesn't seem to work...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 03, 2013, 12:44:49 am
Why ugly?

I like that it is more difficult than ketane to set up ore drilling, kind of makes sense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 03, 2013, 01:51:31 am
Stuff like the big open faces on most of the models, like the ends of the ore and metal bins, for instance- and the textures are generally lower quality and clash with the smoother stock and kethane ones. I think B9 parts actually refuse to attach to them... Not that I've done any better, mind, it's just annoying.

But yeah, I tinkered with the parts so they're essentially the same as before, just with Kethane models instead of the original ones... and they don't work. I don't see why- the functional modules are identical and I've checked several times.

Also, the base parts are absurdly huge. Masswise and pure size-wise... I've tried rescaling them and those don't work either. I can't get a 0.5 meter auger to work even if I just rename the original one and rescale it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 03, 2013, 02:27:28 am
It makes sense for them to be bulky and heavy

But i agree with other points you made
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 03, 2013, 01:54:19 pm
My adventures in failure continue.  I now have 2 spaceplanes horribly stranded in orbit with poor unfortunate kerbals wondering where their air is coming from.

My genius plan to solve this?  A rescue rocket. Three separate cockpits (because 3 seems lighter than the one that holds 3 by itself) one with a pilot and 2 empty for pickup. The plan is to launch the rocket, refuel at the orbital fuel depot, and then intercept the stranded spaceplanes and either give them enough fuel to deorbit themselves, or pick up the kerbal.

Rocket gets into orbit easily and I intercept the fuel depot.  But after a few failed attempts to dock I turn on mechjeb auto docking to try to see what I'm doing wrong.  When that also failed it struck me why it wasn't working.  The rescue rocket and the fuel depot have different size docking ports.

D'OH!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 03, 2013, 02:05:10 pm
Am I the only one that uses unmanned probes for prototype craft? ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 03, 2013, 02:06:49 pm
It depends on my craft. And my problem is always the power. Gotta go crunch them numbers!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 03, 2013, 02:08:20 pm
I say unmanned probes are for satellites.  Everything else must have a poor innocent (preferably high stupidity) kerbal soul in the balance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 03, 2013, 02:42:50 pm
I like to send an unmanned probe ahead of my manned expedition so I can understand what flight path to take. That said, supply drops are going to be delivered by drones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 03, 2013, 02:47:30 pm
Quote from: Greiger on September 03, 2013, 01:54:19 pm
My adventures in failure continue.  I now have 2 spaceplanes horribly stranded in orbit with poor unfortunate kerbals wondering where their air is coming from.
Kerbals can refill their EVA RCS packs for free an infinite number of times by just reentering a command pod.

If you're ever stuck in space you can always just get out and push.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 03, 2013, 02:50:46 pm
Quote from: Leonon on September 03, 2013, 02:47:30 pm
Quote from: Greiger on September 03, 2013, 01:54:19 pm
My adventures in failure continue.  I now have 2 spaceplanes horribly stranded in orbit with poor unfortunate kerbals wondering where their air is coming from.
Kerbals can refill their EVA RCS packs for free an infinite number of times by just reentering a command pod.

If you're ever stuck in space you can always just get out and push.
This sounds like a fantastic idea. And one that could easily doom you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 08, 2013, 03:17:50 pm
You really shouldn't repeat yourself like that, Immaterial. It's unbecoming!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 08, 2013, 07:16:48 pm
More adventures in failure.

I figure I may get enough fuel to do things in orbit if I found ways to make my flight more efficent.  I see that I have to keep my plane's nose up a good 20 degrees over my actual direction of travel because my plane dosn't have enough lift.  Well that will probably help quite a bit!

So I modify my planes to have more wing surface and add control surfaces to match.  And now instead my planes can't continue to climb after 10000 meters, I just end up having very little control over my angle of attack, even with the joystick all the way back.  I can't pull up or down more than a few degrees, and at higher altitudes the plane eventually just starts nosing down and losing speed no matter what I'm doing

And the nose is still pointing a good 10 degrees above the direction it's actually going...

I ended up making a neat little water landing once though.  The plane disintegrated but the cockpit lived.  So I let bob out to swim around a little bit.  I like to think he was happy for the R&R.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 09, 2013, 01:58:18 am
trying to design an eve return lander.

getting 11k dv to land there is a real challenge  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 09, 2013, 02:34:14 am
@Greiger
Sounds like you need more lift in the back(maybe a tail) and more control surfaces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 09, 2013, 07:35:37 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 09, 2013, 01:58:18 am
trying to design an eve return lander.

getting 11k dv to land there is a real challenge  :o
Did you Asparagus?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 10, 2013, 08:18:22 pm
Two things:
One, SABERs are real. Or atleast close to real. Almost done.
Two, The kerbal AI thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 10, 2013, 08:25:02 pm
You're gonna have to explain both of those.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 10, 2013, 08:53:58 pm
Allright. In the UK some people are testing prototypes of SABERs.
Yes, I am most likely spelling that wrong.
Well, here is one page talking about it.
   http://www.space.com/22004-skylon-space-plane-rocket-engine.html

The other thing is in this weeks dev thingie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 10, 2013, 08:55:10 pm
Thanks to everyone's advice I got a spacestation in orbit and I actually managed to reach a refueling station in orbit with a spaceplane!  Thanks guys!

However the next mission me playing around with mechjeb's docking autopilot caused a expansion module trying to connect to systematically deconstruct that very station.   Oopsie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 10, 2013, 08:57:45 pm
BUAHA!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 10, 2013, 08:59:57 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 10, 2013, 08:53:58 pm
The other thing is in this weeks dev thingie.
This tells us all so very little...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 11, 2013, 03:33:54 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzdizR6bJiM

The video that explains the things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVGPjUmYHmI

And the one that was in the newsletter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 11, 2013, 05:02:43 pm
HOLY SH*T
HOLY SH*T

At first it looks like a normal autopilot, but then he proceed to launch TWO ROCKETS AT ONCE. That's AWESOME!

Now onto weaponizing that stuff :D

First idea: Smart missiles!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 11, 2013, 06:09:48 pm
Hm, that seems like it would be useful for things like multi payload rockets that can be programmed to all head to a different Jool moon or something like that.   They probably stop working when they leave render distance though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 11, 2013, 07:06:15 pm
As to the smart missiles thing, why the heck is that what i was thinking?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 11, 2013, 07:15:40 pm
Remember how the first time one of your rockets exploded? Remember the raucous laughter that shortly followed?

Remember how you got your first plane off the ground? Remember how you began experimenting with small rockets on your planes? Remember the raucous laughter that shortly followed?

That is why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 11, 2013, 10:05:06 pm
I have done a little science (some accidental, some not) and learned some things you all probably already know.

1. It is possible to send a spaceplane into a spin so severe that the engines fly off.

After that I had decided to strap some emergency abort chutes to my test plane for emergencies such as unplanned engine separation.  Tests were successful, despite me not actually expecting it to work.  Heck a couple parts slid off from the sudden drag when the chutes fully deployed but nothing broke when it hit the ground!  Success!

2. Enough parachutes can slow down even big stuff to landing speeds.

3. I also learned that if you have a kerbal in EVA and move them near a spent parachute they can repack the parachute.

Really only 1 and 3 are big surprises to me.  I expected 2 to work, but it did surprise me that 4 radial parachutes is enough to safely drop a medium size spaceplane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:33:34 pm
Keep this in mind for future versions - attaching parachutes to booster rockets that are ejected, will likely save you a lot in the recovery vs replacement costs.

Also keep in mind how rotational forces will break a long craft.  I have on at least one occasion used this to detach a part of my rocket that I thought had a decoupler.

On parachutes: Any body with an atmosphere, it's a lot cheaper to parachute down than to slow descent by burning fuel.  If you can repack the chutes, then you can save a LOT of fuel when landing on, for instance, Eve, which has an atmosphere.  You just slow enough to aerobrake, deploy chutes, and hit the ground, instead of burning the whole velocity off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on September 11, 2013, 10:34:49 pm
Wait... do all the moons exist?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:39:16 pm
In the current version (not the free demo) there's a full solar system - as far as we know, there's no plans to add any new celestial bodies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 11, 2013, 10:40:17 pm
From what I know 'kinda'   Kerbin actually has 2 moons, the Mun and minmus farther out on an inclined orbit, Duna has a moon, but I think only one, and Jool has a bunch, just like Jupiter.  Apparently from what I read one of the Jool moons is downright earthlike.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:43:58 pm
I think one of Jool's satellites actually has its own, smaller moon too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 11, 2013, 11:05:19 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:43:58 pm
I think one of Jool's satellites actually has its own, smaller moon too?

Ike has the magic boulder and Minmus has Tutanjebhamen or w/e, but those aren't orbital bodies with SOIs and all that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 12, 2013, 03:32:22 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 11, 2013, 03:33:54 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzdizR6bJiM

The video that explains the things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVGPjUmYHmI

And the one that was in the newsletter.

Any Kerbal advancement is measured in it's ability to cause new and spectacular failures.
Rockets crashing into each other during simultaneous launches?
I approve!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on September 12, 2013, 11:30:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:39:16 pm
In the current version (not the free demo) there's a full solar system - as far as we know, there's no plans to add any new celestial bodies.
There is another gas giant in the works, an analog to Saturn. The most recently added planet (Eeloo?) is supposedly one of its moons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 12, 2013, 12:14:20 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on September 12, 2013, 11:30:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:39:16 pm
In the current version (not the free demo) there's a full solar system - as far as we know, there's no plans to add any new celestial bodies.
There is another gas giant in the works, an analog to Saturn. The most recently added planet (Eeloo?) is supposedly one of its moons.
no it's not. It's independent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 12, 2013, 02:39:45 pm
Bringing my fails to new levels. Not content to simply flip out things designed to travel through the air, it seems I manage to even cause FUEL TRUCKS to perform daring aerial maneuvers with the power of poor design.

(http://img.ie/images/8t92v_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/8t92v.png.html)

Mission control is gunna be soooooo pissed.

EDIT: Just had fun hooking bill up to a winch and driving away.  Kerbals bounce and tumble very well.  Unfortunately Bob wasn't watching where he was driving and he ramped up one side of the runway causing the truck to pirouette gracefully through the air and fly into a thousand pieces.  Bill was targeted and the force of the winch being destroyed sent him off at what must have been kilometer a second in the direction of the mountains.   Seeya, Bill.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 12, 2013, 03:16:26 pm
Holy crap, I just realized, I have enough money for this game finally!
Woo, now to actually work up the gumption to put in card information.

Okay, question, is my performance during the demo similar to what I'll get in the full game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 12, 2013, 07:42:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EZWbF3sQQI
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 12, 2013, 07:56:01 pm
Just found that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 12, 2013, 09:23:49 pm
Just set up a base.  "We couldn't be bothered to actually bring you back.  So we're just going along with the planned base structure, just without one crew.  You're being transfered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on September 13, 2013, 07:30:19 am
I searched a bit and I think this is not posted here yet...

We've known about the infinite lift problem for a long time, resulting in physics-defying planes using lots of wings to create lift.

But have you imagined that you can do something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSlKsU7p6Q
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on September 13, 2013, 07:53:50 am
Quote from: kcwong on September 13, 2013, 07:30:19 am
I searched a bit and I think this is not posted here yet...

We've known about the infinite lift problem, resulting in physics-defying planes using lots of wings to create lift.

But you have imagined you could do something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSlKsU7p6Q

That is both terrifying and beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 13, 2013, 09:35:24 am
Wiggle wiggle wiggle.  I love it. It looks like some kind of flying worm monster I'd expect to see in some B movie.

In the related videos I also saw a spaceplane that ended up going 4km a second and leaving the atmosphere in an uncontrolled orbit beyond Jool with nothing but jet engines and air intakes.

Really easy to break physics in this game if you know how I see.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 13, 2013, 09:49:08 am
Quote from: Tobel on September 13, 2013, 07:53:50 am
Quote from: kcwong on September 13, 2013, 07:30:19 am
I searched a bit and I think this is not posted here yet...

We've known about the infinite lift problem, resulting in physics-defying planes using lots of wings to create lift.

But you have imagined you could do something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSlKsU7p6Q
That is both terrifying and beautiful.
Rather impressed by the flexibility; but as far as abusing that particular infinite lift bug, I'm still the winner so far as I know. :P
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4140395;topicseen#msg4140395
The upper bounds on velocity for such craft is actually based on how high you can get the forces before floating point error vibrates your ship apart; they can actually pull hundreds of g forces in lower atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on September 13, 2013, 10:18:41 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on September 12, 2013, 12:14:20 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on September 12, 2013, 11:30:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:39:16 pm
In the current version (not the free demo) there's a full solar system - as far as we know, there's no plans to add any new celestial bodies.
There is another gas giant in the works, an analog to Saturn. The most recently added planet (Eeloo?) is supposedly one of its moons.
no it's not. It's independent.
Sorry, I should put some sort of sources. According to the wiki: There are plans for Eeloo to become the moon of a second gas giant and have an active surface, with cryovolcanic phenomena. It is unknown what Eeloo's parent planet will look like. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Eeloo) I haven't heard any different yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 13, 2013, 11:12:52 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on September 13, 2013, 10:18:41 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on September 12, 2013, 12:14:20 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on September 12, 2013, 11:30:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 11, 2013, 10:39:16 pm
In the current version (not the free demo) there's a full solar system - as far as we know, there's no plans to add any new celestial bodies.
There is another gas giant in the works, an analog to Saturn. The most recently added planet (Eeloo?) is supposedly one of its moons.
no it's not. It's independent.
Sorry, I should put some sort of sources. According to the wiki: There are plans for Eeloo to become the moon of a second gas giant and have an active surface, with cryovolcanic phenomena. It is unknown what Eeloo's parent planet will look like. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Eeloo) I haven't heard any different yet.
Oh. I'm absolutely sorry, I misread your statement. I thought you were saying that Eelo was one of jool's moons. My bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 13, 2013, 02:19:16 pm
I just read the last post in dapper voices imagining tophats and cups of tea.   It amused me.

---

Tried to remake that one Real SSTO spaceplane in the works using KSP and the B9 Aerospace pack.  Despite the relatively small wing surface area it seems to fly alright.  If a little heavier than I'm used to.

Now if only I could reliably get it into the sky, because it seems to insist on making a sharp left or right turn on the runway despite 100% symmetry and a COL only slightly behind the CoM.  So far I've only gotten it into the air by carefully driving it into an empty field and taking off there so it doesn't catastrophically leap off of the side of the runway and disintegrate.

I also made a VTOL craft with the eventual plan of making a kethane mining base on Kerbal and transporting full tanks with that.  I managed to make the vertical take off bit work, but my landings need work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 13, 2013, 04:57:11 pm
You use avast? You realize that douse more harm than good half of the time, right?
Try Malwherebites, it works better and the free version is almost just as good as the payed one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2013, 05:02:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 13, 2013, 04:57:11 pm
Malwherebites

*Malwarebytes, to avoid confusion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2013, 06:19:22 pm
Microsoft Security Essentials is really good
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 13, 2013, 06:23:05 pm
Avast used to be great, then I think the devs started getting paranoid.   Probably all part of the Antivirus cycle, new av comes out, new av proves very effective, new av gets popular, new av begins to be targeted by virus anti-antivirus countermeasures, then the devs make the antivirus extremely paranoid and that annoys users, or the antivirus becomes ineffective.  Then another av gets popular and it all starts over.

At any rate I use kethane and I haven't noticed any issues.  Likely a false positive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 13, 2013, 07:26:02 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 12, 2013, 03:16:26 pm
Holy crap, I just realized, I have enough money for this game finally!
Woo, now to actually work up the gumption to put in card information.

Okay, question, is my performance during the demo similar to what I'll get in the full game?
I think the full version will run a little slower than the demo. Probably not anything major though. The load times will be MUCH worse for the full version though. There really isn't anything that can be done about that, since it adds so much.

There have been a few updates since the demo version and SAS and ASAS are very different in the full version than in the demo. ASAS comes standard in all command modules (manned and unmanned) and is now called SAS. What was SAS is now called reaction wheels.

What was ASAS has been recoded and heading can now be changed with it on instead of turning it off, changing heading, and turning it on again. This change also seems to have made ASAS control much less capable of staying precisely on a heading when controlling unstable craft. The craft's heading seems to float around where ASAS is set to.

What was SAS requires electricity to use now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 13, 2013, 08:00:43 pm
I am sorry, I cant spell.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 13, 2013, 08:57:47 pm
Quote from: Leonon on September 13, 2013, 07:26:02 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 12, 2013, 03:16:26 pm
Holy crap, I just realized, I have enough money for this game finally!
Woo, now to actually work up the gumption to put in card information.

Okay, question, is my performance during the demo similar to what I'll get in the full game?
I think the full version will run a little slower than the demo. Probably not anything major though. The load times will be MUCH worse for the full version though. There really isn't anything that can be done about that, since it adds so much.

There have been a few updates since the demo version and SAS and ASAS are very different in the full version than in the demo. ASAS comes standard in all command modules (manned and unmanned) and is now called SAS. What was SAS is now called reaction wheels.

What was ASAS has been recoded and heading can now be changed with it on instead of turning it off, changing heading, and turning it on again. This change also seems to have made ASAS control much less capable of staying precisely on a heading when controlling unstable craft. The craft's heading seems to float around where ASAS is set to.

What was SAS requires electricity to use now.

For performance I actually had the exact opposite issue.  The demo ran like absolute garbage for me.  Any rocket capable of reaching orbit reduced my FPS to single digits.  Now all but the largest construction runs buttery smooth.   Maybe something with my system in particular got optimized?  *shrug*


(another adventure in fail, made a huge spaceplane.  Has enough thrust and lift to fly beautifully when in the air and likely get into space easily.  Needs a longer runway.  I only managed to take off with it once, and that was almost literaly by the skin of my teeth.  Checking the flight report a tiny radial rcs tank on the underside of the tail got stripped off by water when I finally started gaining altitude)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 14, 2013, 03:49:03 am
So I was doing a test to how many gees the kerbals have to endure if they fall from 80 megameters up onto Kerbin.

They managed to hit Mun on the way down. What are the odds???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2013, 04:46:12 am
I started using Mathtm to design my interplanetary vessels. It turns out Mathtm works amazingly well. The only trouble is getting the blasted things into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2013, 10:41:09 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 14, 2013, 08:23:19 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 14, 2013, 04:46:12 am
I started using Mathtm to design my interplanetary vessels. It turns out Mathtm works amazingly well. The only trouble is getting the blasted things into orbit.
Bog standard solution: add more boosters!
Yeah, but to make the Space Rod Planet Exploratory Vehicletm not wobbly takes a lot of struts which mess up my aerodynamics.

Hmmm... I thing it's time I tried my hand at Orbital Assembly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 14, 2013, 10:47:25 am
Wasn't there a bug that caused struts to be weightless and dragless?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2013, 10:48:53 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 14, 2013, 10:47:25 am
Wasn't there a bug that caused struts to be weightless and dragless?
I don't know, all I know is that the rotation issues stop if I remove the struts (and are replaced by wobble issues)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 14, 2013, 12:22:32 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 14, 2013, 10:47:25 am
Wasn't there a bug that caused struts to be weightless and dragless?

I don't think it's a bug, so much as explicitly part of the design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 14, 2013, 12:45:20 pm
Is there some secret button somewhere to simulate draining a craft's fuel one stage at a time while showing how lift/thrust/center of gravity move as it does? Because there really should be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2013, 12:57:04 pm
Okay, I got my Joollama (yeah, Space Rod was... immature) into high Kerbin orbit whereupon I discovered a fatal flaw in my design.

The blasted thing has got no docking port. all that delta V, lost to correcting the orbit, never to be recovered again.

Oh, well, I'm going to go crash it into the moon. No traces of my failure must remain!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 14, 2013, 01:24:46 pm
Okay, so I have about 20 - 40% better specs than recommended on the site, so I should be good.
I think the only problem I had when I tried this before was a crappy processer, because that was way back when I used a laptop.
Now, it is desktop time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 14, 2013, 05:04:09 pm
Okay, so, I've managed to land crash a ship on the Mun in the Demo due to a lack of fuel and the fact that parachutes don't work in space.

Are there any tips to minimizing fuel consumption from take off to Kerbin orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 14, 2013, 06:27:18 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 14, 2013, 05:04:09 pm
Okay, so, I've managed to land crash a ship on the Mun in the Demo due to a lack of fuel and the fact that parachutes don't work in space.

Are there any tips to minimizing fuel consumption from take off to Kerbin orbit?
Use only the shorter fuel tanks, put your engines at the front of your craft, and jettison the empty tanks as they are used up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 14, 2013, 06:32:42 pm
Or doing the above but from the sides.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 14, 2013, 06:41:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 14, 2013, 06:32:42 pm
Or doing the above but from the sides.
Requires more engines. Wait no it doesn't, please disregard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2013, 12:37:43 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 14, 2013, 06:22:17 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 14, 2013, 05:04:09 pm
Okay, so, I've managed to land crash a ship on the Mun in the Demo due to a lack of fuel and the fact that parachutes don't work in space.

Are there any tips to minimizing fuel consumption from take off to Kerbin orbit?
Gravity turns.

Also speed limits.
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbin#Atmosphere

Some say that a TWR of 1.5 to 2 is optimal.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 15, 2013, 01:45:26 am
The most economic T/W ratio is around 4. But that's for orbit-only ships. The biggest I could do as far as liftoff goes is around 2.5 to 3. More than that and the thing usually falls apart on launch.


Anywho, I was going to crash the Joollama into the Mun, but I decided to give it a much more deserving burial and crash it into another planet. I chose Jool. after a long burn and transfer, I saw a most peculiar thing. My predicted orbit was higher. A lot higher. Then I realized that I had just accidentally made an Oberth Effect happen. So, I decided not to crash the ship into jool and see where the new orbit would take me.
The answer is: Dres. I had minimum amount of fuel left, so I decided to crash into that. I didn't catch any photos of the crash because FRAPS and PrintScreen decided to be dicks. I did, however catch a screenshot of the Joolama after its burn to Jool. (Sean, the kerbal piloting is the stupidest and least corageous of the bunch)
Spoiler: Joollama (click to show/hide)

Also, when looking through my KSP screenshots folder, I found a thing from a previous mission, when the entire mission was put to jeopardy by Bill Kerman who had destroyed the craft's power supply by crashing into the solar panels. He has been dealt with accordingly.
Spoiler: Billybob Kerman in orbit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 15, 2013, 02:41:21 am
Quote
Then I realized that I had just accidentally made an Oberth Effect happen

What do you mean?(I know what Oberth is, just not how it applies to this)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 15, 2013, 02:47:37 am
Quote from: ank on September 15, 2013, 02:41:21 am
Quote
Then I realized that I had just accidentally made an Oberth Effect happen

What do you mean?(I know what Oberth is, just not how it applies to this)
I was starting off from Kerbin after I finished my burn towards Jool, I took a look at the map screen and saw the predicted orbit. its periapsis was higher (lower? closer to Dres in any case) than the one I was riding to the Jool subsistem on. Its apoapsis also went further out than Jool.

Basically, somewhere along the line, I got some free delta V. It's either a bug or Oberth Effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 15, 2013, 02:58:13 am
It is most certainly not the Oberth effect. It is more likely bad predictions about the flight path. Or maybe a gravity boost by the moon.

The Oberth effect does not give magical D-v, rather it means a more efficient burn, when burning in a lower orbit.
Nature was being silly when it made thrust work over distance and gravity works per second.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 15, 2013, 03:00:07 am
Quote from: ank on September 15, 2013, 02:58:13 am
It is most certainly not the Oberth effect. It is more likely bad predictions about the flight path. Or maybe a gravity boost by the moon.

The Oberth effect does not give magical D-v, rather it means a more efficient burn, when burning in a lower orbit.
Nature was being silly when it made thrust work over distance and gravity works per second.
Aw, but it sounds so much cooler than a "gravity boost".  :P

Still, I think it's more likely to be a bug in the predictions than me actually achieving something other than crashing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 15, 2013, 10:14:23 am
I finally managed to get a ship into Munar orbit with a decent amount of fuel left. I think I'll go for the landing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Note to self, start slowing down a little earlier than 10,000 meters.

DOUBLE EDIT:
I did it!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 15, 2013, 11:02:16 am
Congrats!

Now all you have to do is crash the rocket to make the mission a resounding success!  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 15, 2013, 03:10:28 pm
Okay, I've done pretty much everything the Demo has to offer.
What does the full version have that the demo doesn't?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2013, 03:15:09 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 15, 2013, 03:10:28 pm
Okay, I've done pretty much everything the Demo has to offer.
What does the full version have that the demo doesn't?
More parts, more planets, more features, and modding capability.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 15, 2013, 03:29:54 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 14, 2013, 05:04:09 pm
Are there any tips to minimizing fuel consumption from take off to Kerbin orbit?

For minimizing fuel consumption go straight up until you get to 8km then slowly turn to the side so you are pointed upwards at 5 degrees when you hit 40km. Raise your apoapsis (orbit high end) until it gets to where you want and only burn when it drops below your target altitude. After you exit atmosphere you can just wait/warp until you get to your apoapsis and burn to raise your periapsis like you normally do.

When you're still in atmosphere ideally have your speed increase at a rate of about 20 meters per second each second.

Mechjeb (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/12384) can handle auto ascending quite well if you set it up to do this for you.

You also want to get out of the thick lower atmosphere and drop fuel tanks as quickly as possible. Most engines get more efficient the closer to vacuum they're in. For getting out of the lower atmosphere boosters work great. The drag calculations use the craft's total mass instead of its actual cross section so the more efficiently it sheds mass the less drag it has.

The staging type most commonly used to efficiently drop used fuel tanks (and mass) is asparagus (http://i.imgur.com/ESpUDEL.jpg) staging, where fuel spirals in from outer tanks that are emptied and dropped in pairs. You can read more about it on the KSP wiki (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:Asparagus_Staging).

A more efficient staging type is linear (http://i.imgur.com/JSbkq6l.jpg) staging where a cubic octagonal strut is placed below the engine and fuel tanks are placed on decouplers below the strut, drain upwards, and are dropped individually. This is likely an exploit though and will probably be patched out before asparagus staging.

Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2013, 03:15:09 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 15, 2013, 03:10:28 pm
Okay, I've done pretty much everything the Demo has to offer.
What does the full version have that the demo doesn't?
More parts, more planets, more features, and modding capability.
Docking, air breathing engines, ion engines, nuclear thermal engines, aerospike engines, rover wheels, probe cores, solar panels, radioisotope thermoelectric generators. And mods, lots and lots of mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 16, 2013, 02:30:02 am
It kind of bothers me that MechJeb doesn't have a "limit jerk to (x) m/s3" option. That would be really useful for particularly forceful stages (I.E ones that have 5 mainsails and not much connection to the above) so that it doesn't repeatedly slam into itself when adjusting apoapsis while coasting to atmosphere. Smooth throttle works well too, but some adjustment to that would be nice.

(Fun fact: the fourth derivative of displacement, that is, change in jerk, is "jounce", just as "jerk", change in acceleration, is the third, "acceleration", etc., is the second and "velocity" is the first. The fifth and sixth are sometimes referred to as "crackle" and "pop", but mostly when the fourth is referred to as "snap". Following up on snap, crackle and pop are lock and drop, giving us:

Position, velocity, acceleration, jerk, snap, crackle, pop, lock, drop)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 16, 2013, 03:08:22 am
It's funny how I'm taking Calculus, and I can probably apply it now. Realistic video games are AWESOME.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 16, 2013, 07:47:35 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on September 16, 2013, 03:08:22 am
It's funny how I'm taking Calculus, and I can probably apply it now. Realistic video games are AWESOME.
When I was in highschool, everyone was like "When am I ever gonna use this?" and I'm over there in the corner, in awe, "My mind is a computer what witchcraft are you teaching me."  I have solved for x so many times it's ridiculous.  In many simple games I've squeezed a lot of functionality out of nothing impressive, and trounced people just by using a few simple equations to guide a choice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 16, 2013, 08:08:26 am
Now I picture a triumphant, badass guy over a defeated, bloodied, scared mook. Said mook ask "h-h-how did you defeat us?" and then the badass answer "Math.". And then he shoot the mook.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on September 16, 2013, 08:13:02 am
Finally! A landing on Eve that wasn't in the water. Its so pretty and purple.

And then the game crashed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 16, 2013, 09:06:44 am
SOMETHING needs to crash, bro. Otherwise, it's not a successful flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 16, 2013, 09:16:10 am
Quote from: Descan on September 16, 2013, 09:06:44 am
SOMETHING needs to crash, bro. Otherwise, it's not a successful flight.
Amen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 16, 2013, 10:30:01 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on September 16, 2013, 08:08:26 am
Now I picture a triumphant, badass guy over a defeated, bloodied, scared mook. Said mook ask "h-h-how did you defeat us?" and then the badass answer "Math.". And then he shoot the mook.

Go ahead.

Derive my d of A sub y.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on September 16, 2013, 10:55:45 am
Finally scraped together the cash and bought this on sale last night on Steam. So far all I've done are the tutorials, but I can tell I'm going to enjoy it! Tried to land on the Mun at the end of the getting-to-the-Mun tutorial, and succeeded explosivly. How does one actually land on the Mun? (I guess part 2 of that tutorial is coming in the future?).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 16, 2013, 10:59:40 am
Orbit it, then slow your pod down so that it'll end up "orbiting" right into the Mun, then when you get a certain amount away from it, point away from your forward vector and turn on your engines until you're going very slowly. Land. CAREFULLY. Make sure you're upright. Have landing gear on your pod.

Any more specifics than that, I don't know. Haven't tried myself, yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 16, 2013, 11:02:28 am
It's pretty simple, really.  Point retrograde, burn to get about 5m/s and extend landing gear.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on September 16, 2013, 11:04:45 am
That's a lot more simple than burning till you're orbit is in to the planet, jettisoning your engines, and trying to use parachutes with no atmosphere (it was late, I was tired...).
Do you need to use full thrust on the burn?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 16, 2013, 11:08:41 am
Depends entirely on your engines and your weight, most of the time you want a full burn briefly to just kill your speed, then slow burn to resist the acceleration of gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 16, 2013, 11:43:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 16, 2013, 11:08:41 am
Depends entirely on your engines and your weight, most of the time you want a full burn briefly to just kill your speed, then slow burn to resist the acceleration of gravity.

suicide burning at around 500 meters (or higher, depending on your twr) and then slowly burning is a little bit more effective, which may be important on fuel-critical landings

something about barely open throttle being as much of a waste as full throttle i dunno
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 16, 2013, 12:10:12 pm
I do most of my Mun landings by getting my orbit so that I'm pretty much falling straight at the Mun, and full burn to slow myself down to roughly 200 m/s, then slow burning to slow down to like, 2-6 m/s as I approach the surface.

I dunno if the Demo is different than the full version in the landing aspect, or if this is even remotely fuel efficient, but hey, none of my shuttles would have made it home anyhow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 16, 2013, 12:36:52 pm
I usually do my Mun landings using a reusable nuclear shuttle (basically a fuel tank with a single nuclear engine) to which I dock my lander (3 kerb capsule, a bit of fuel, RCS, the works) and then set off on a Hohmann transfer towards the Mun. After I land there, I rezendvous with the nuclear shuttle again, return it to Kerbin and return the lander.

That is what it would look like ideally. Most of the time I just mess up either of the dockings or crash.

The thing's got enough Delta V, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 16, 2013, 03:18:58 pm
Landing on the Mun at night is tricky when you can barely see the ground.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 16, 2013, 03:43:03 pm
Atleast you have gotten there. I think I have once gotten into its orbit, but thats all.


In other news, I have made a youtubes video for KSP. Please check it out and yell aggressively in the comments.
My name there is DADeathinacan.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 16, 2013, 07:38:23 pm
Damn it, $23 dollars that I figured would be in my wallet by now, GET IN MAH WALLET!
I am seriously fricken chomping at the bit for the full version after seeing some of the things people have built on the KSP forums.
I REQUIRE THIS MAGIC.
[/childishrage]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on September 16, 2013, 10:44:07 pm
Screenshots of recent accomplishments:

I finally put enough ships in one place on Minmus that it lags!
The SSTO didn't have enough fuel to quite make Minmus orbit, so the kerbal had to push, then it had to be rescued, probably the highlight of the adventure.
Spoiler: Base! (click to show/hide)

Speaking of SSTOs... I also put this thing into orbit. Amazingly, the hatch isn't obstructed, so the kerbal can get in and out.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neyvn on September 17, 2013, 06:17:48 am
Gentlemen, I present to you...
A Kerbal Webcomic...
http://www.kerbalcomics.com/2012/02/01/episode-one-jebs-passion/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 17, 2013, 09:42:37 am
i am looking at the Kethane mod. is it any good?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 17, 2013, 09:54:04 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 17, 2013, 09:47:29 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 17, 2013, 09:42:37 am
i am looking at the Kethane mod. is it any good?
It allows you to establish bases on other planets to refuel ships.

You can either land the ship on the planet, or use a little shuttle to go to and from the planet to an orbital refuelling point.
that sounds luvverly. i will definetly be trying it out.

also, are there any mods that add spherical fuel tanks?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 17, 2013, 09:56:52 am
Gives you purpose, and a reason to make bases on other planets. Making bases on other planets requires you to plan much longer-term, which is cool. For instance, I've got a Mun base right now that gets Kethane, but I need a Kethane skycrane and I plan on having a Mun-orbit Kethane conversion station :)

Right now I'm holding off on playing any more until the new version comes out, because it appears to have all the awesome things, including research to give a sense of progression and ways to save ship parts!

Was ninja'd :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on September 17, 2013, 11:14:20 am
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 16, 2013, 03:18:58 pm
Landing on the Mun at night is tricky when you can barely see the ground.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Night, one of the concepts that are simple when you are thinking in terms of earth but gets confusing once you are in space.

Since Night is only the part of the planet that faces away from the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on September 17, 2013, 11:43:12 am
Finally fired up the game yesterday.

How do I space ship?  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 17, 2013, 11:46:03 am
lordslowpoke's pro manual tospaceship:

1. get the parts\
2; get the struts ??
3. combine part with strut
4.point spaceward
6. laugh as explodes
7. go to #5
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 17, 2013, 11:55:10 am
General rules for space flight:
1: Attach engine-fuel-capsule
2: Fly upwards to ~10km
3: Gravity turn by leaning to ~45 degrees
4: When you leave atmosphere, turn to 90 degrees and get your speed up.
5: Go back to space center and add more engines.
6: Add more fuel.
7: Add more engines.
8: Your craft is dangerous, add space tape (struts)
9: Goto 5.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 17, 2013, 12:03:20 pm
Hint for troubled spaceflights.

if the ship is wobbling, add more spacetape.

If it is still wobbling, add even more spacetape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on September 17, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
Okay. I understand now that the more space tape I have the better the ship will fly.

I shall begin my glorious quest to the stars! Right after I place this order for excessive amounts of struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 17, 2013, 12:06:23 pm
For very linear ships, try adding structural beams going out like tiny wings to let you reinforce from one end to the other. Think flying, rocket-powered suspension bridge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 17, 2013, 12:19:57 pm
Quote from: CognitiveDissonance on September 17, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
Okay. I understand now that the more space tape I have the better the ship will fly.

I shall begin my glorious quest to the stars! Right after I place this order for excessive amounts of struts.
Congratulations, you have just gotten your diploma of Kerbal Spacecraft Construction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 17, 2013, 01:38:12 pm
Also, if you have trouble attaching space tape to stop wobble, attach horizontal I-beams and run space tape from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on September 17, 2013, 04:52:26 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 17, 2013, 01:38:12 pm
Also, if you have trouble attaching space tape to stop wobble, attach horizontal I-beams and run space tape from there.
Don't do that, I-beams have weirdly weak connections. Use trusses instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 17, 2013, 07:27:37 pm
Well, if you check my videos you can see things... If you ignore my siblings, my reactions to them and my "accent"

But otherwise: Boosters, mainsails and spacetape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 17, 2013, 07:28:38 pm
Adding a link to these videos would likely get more people to look at them
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 17, 2013, 07:29:25 pm
Allright. Just dont say I have not warned you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 17, 2013, 07:37:31 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 17, 2013, 07:29:25 pm
Allright. Just dont say I have not warned you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Watching the first one now. I wouldn't worry too much about the accent and the video is fine so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 17, 2013, 07:41:56 pm
Why thank you. Brace yourself for the next two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 17, 2013, 07:43:49 pm
I like that you yourself were singing, then when your sibling sang you berated him. Heheh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 17, 2013, 08:12:10 pm
It depends on the sibling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 05:48:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Not quite....

Spoiler: Freud! Freud! Freud! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sebcool on September 18, 2013, 08:53:56 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 05:48:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Not quite....

Spoiler: Freud! Freud! Freud! (click to show/hide)

That's a lot of balls :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 09:00:03 am
Quote from: sebcool on September 18, 2013, 08:53:56 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 05:48:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Not quite....

Spoiler: Freud! Freud! Freud! (click to show/hide)

That's a lot of balls :P
I moved the fuelballs up, but then I had to connect them to the engine with a fuel line.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 18, 2013, 10:34:45 am
Quote from: sebcool on September 18, 2013, 08:53:56 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 05:48:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Not quite....

Spoiler: Freud! Freud! Freud! (click to show/hide)

That's a lot of balls :P
Given the Kerbal nature of crashing things into other things, explosions and what not, it wouldn't surprise me if Kerbals are distant relatives of Krogans.

In that case, that's a normal number of balls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2013, 04:48:58 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 05:48:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on September 18, 2013, 04:59:36 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 18, 2013, 04:46:12 am
Okay, I found myself a nice spherical fuel tank pack.

NOW things can get really Freudian...
Rocketboob hurhur?
Not quite....

Spoiler: Freud! Freud! Freud! (click to show/hide)
http://youtu.be/0B4suxQVUAQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 19, 2013, 12:11:46 am
Well that was a pleasant turn of events. My explorer rover overshot the Mun, and landed on Minmus. This is pretty nice, because I already had a rover on the Mun, and had never been to Minmus before. Also, completely missed the flat frozen lakes and hit one of the mountains. My lander got destroyed, but the rover was completely intact minus one wheel, and it can get by fine with five. Aw yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 19, 2013, 12:23:27 am
Oh wow. If you haven't watched The Spirit of Kerbin video series lately, do so. Just watched episode 7. Holy crap. http://www.youtube.com/user/MaceyDean?feature=watch
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 19, 2013, 12:42:47 am
unfortunately the 0.21 screwed up the save and there wasnt any updates on his chanel for two months now :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 08:38:15 am
Quote from: alway on September 19, 2013, 12:23:27 am
Oh wow. If you haven't watched The Spirit of Kerbin video series lately, do so. Just watched episode 7. Holy crap. http://www.youtube.com/user/MaceyDean?feature=watch
I'm still waiting for that series to continue... It's been a very long while since 0.21 came out...


Edit: Been playing around with that Spherical Tank Pack and the Kethane pack.

Ladies, Gentlemen and Assorted Transvestites, I present to you: The Munar Kethane Finder
Spoiler: Pictures (click to show/hide)

I have to say, I fell in love with the Skipper engine during the building of this. It's not quite as strong as the Mainsail, but it provides better fuel efficiency and does not overheat and explode. Not too often, at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 19, 2013, 02:25:12 pm
It is quite good.

In other words, failing at mun and getting duna instead is good, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 03:15:41 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 19, 2013, 02:25:12 pm
It is quite good.

In other words, failing at mun and getting duna instead is good, right?
What do you mean, failing at Mun? Duna was the primary destination all along.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 19, 2013, 03:22:24 pm
I was trying to shove a sat in the muns orbit and wound up heading to duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 19, 2013, 03:25:11 pm
Thats called a gravity slingshot. You were going to Duna all along.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 19, 2013, 03:35:29 pm
Well, its a nice way to explane things in videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
remember, there is no such thing as failing your primary objectives. there is only the realization that your original interpretation of your primary objective was wrong.

okay, i think i have spent a couple of hours staring at phallic rockets more than is entirely healthy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2013, 05:19:19 pm
any lander I made to return from eve with the required huge dV is aerodynamically unstable and flips violently at 10km from the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 19, 2013, 10:38:09 pm
ARGH. They are updating the forum, and the Kethane mod doesn't have a mirror! Well, not one that I trust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 19, 2013, 10:50:25 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 19, 2013, 05:19:19 pm
any lander I made to return from eve with the required huge dV is aerodynamically unstable and flips violently at 10km from the surface.
For those, the lander is generally a small part that detaches, goes down, comes back into orbit, and re-attaches to take the kerbonauts home.  You don't land the whole rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on September 20, 2013, 05:34:55 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
remember, there is no such thing as failing your primary objectives. there is only the realization that your original interpretation of your primary objective was wrong.

okay, i think i have spent a couple of hours staring at phallic rockets more than is entirely healthy.
Exactly.  Fail going into orbit and instead discover that part of your rocket can glide halfway around the planet?  Orbital insertition vehicle.  Rocket crashes into space station?  Missile test worked.  Escape pod malfunctioned?  The traitors have been killed.  Miss a planet entirely and end up in the orbit of another planet?  Slingshot successful. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on September 20, 2013, 08:08:13 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
remember, there is no such thing as failing your primary objectives. there is only the realization that your original interpretation of your primary objective was wrong.

okay, i think i have spent a couple of hours staring at phallic rockets more than is entirely healthy.

Is there any other kind of rocket?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2013, 08:22:44 am
Quote from: ank on September 20, 2013, 08:08:13 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
remember, there is no such thing as failing your primary objectives. there is only the realization that your original interpretation of your primary objective was wrong.

okay, i think i have spent a couple of hours staring at phallic rockets more than is entirely healthy.

Is there any other kind of rocket?
Yes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unless you do a whole lot of squinting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 09:15:13 am
Note to self: whenever coasting, remember to leave the solar panels extended for the duration.


Edit: I have achieved Munar orbit. I shall show you pictures of the probe later. Now, I shall show you the picture of what I plan to be my Munar Lander. Just a lander, no kethane rig with an Apollo-like ability to return to Kerbin.
Spoiler: I think I may have overdesigned it. Just a tad. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 20, 2013, 10:41:15 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2013, 08:22:44 am
Quote from: ank on September 20, 2013, 08:08:13 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 19, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
remember, there is no such thing as failing your primary objectives. there is only the realization that your original interpretation of your primary objective was wrong.

okay, i think i have spent a couple of hours staring at phallic rockets more than is entirely healthy.

Is there any other kind of rocket?
Yes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unless you do a whole lot of squinting.
That's really cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 20, 2013, 11:14:34 am
I can FINALLY buy the game.
Any essential mods to get?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 11:27:37 am
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 20, 2013, 11:14:34 am
I can FINALLY buy the game.
Any essential mods to get?
Kethane.

The rest depend on what you want.

I would also suggest messing around with the vanilla version for a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 20, 2013, 11:31:47 am
Mechjeb.  Not sure how you really plan a homman transfer without it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2013, 11:33:45 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 20, 2013, 11:31:47 am
Mechjeb.  Not sure how you really plan a homman transfer without it...
Eyeballing and nav nodes? 'S what I do. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 11:38:18 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 20, 2013, 11:31:47 am
Mechjeb.  Not sure how you really plan a homman transfer without it...
Eh, for me, Mechjeb is borderline cheating.

I have less fun with KSP if I let the computer do all the challenging stuff and math.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on September 20, 2013, 11:38:58 am
Kerbal Attachment Something (KAS) is also pretty awesome and makes refuelling, especially on the ground, a LOT easier.

Plus, it's crazy fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 20, 2013, 11:39:48 am
Also, is it me, or does everyone always use rockets with like, 3 stages?
It takes me a 10 stage rocket just to get into orbit in the Demo, is the Atmosphere thinner in the full version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 20, 2013, 12:01:57 pm
The full version has bigger rockets for you to play with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 20, 2013, 12:05:08 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 11:27:37 am
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 20, 2013, 11:14:34 am
I can FINALLY buy the game.
Any essential mods to get?
Kethane.
Note that the forums are down right now, and the Kethane mod has no official mirror.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 20, 2013, 12:06:13 pm
if you need ten stages you clearly are not using enough boosters

i can get you to any planet in two stages given enough math and a good enough launch window, and maybe a cpu blessed by armok if you need me to fly into the sun with the double-cannon method (a little above a thousand srbs needed, plus struts and decouplers)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 20, 2013, 12:07:19 pm
Well, for aspargus you've generally got quite a few stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2013, 12:17:17 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on September 20, 2013, 12:06:13 pm
if you need ten stages you clearly are not using enough boosters

i can get you to any planet in two stages given enough math and a good enough launch window, and maybe a cpu blessed by armok if you need me to fly into the sun with the double-cannon method (a little above a thousand srbs needed, plus struts and decouplers)
I typically fly three to four-stage rockets, for the really long hauls. Two- or three-stage if I refuel in orbit.

I tend to frown at launch windows. In a term I dubbed "linux launching", I just do a reverse bi-elliptic transfer from a lower Sol periapsis to get where I need to go. Horribly inefficient, but eh. Saves time waiting. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 12:56:48 pm
I tend to use 2 stage rockets with a liquid booster stage (or some times solids, depending on what the payload is), only resorting to bigger launch craft (such as asparagoids and 3+ stage ones) for really heavy craft (like my Joollama from my previous save).

Oh, this reminds me. I need to put a fuel depot in orbit after I'm done with the mun landing. Any orbits I should be aware of?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 20, 2013, 12:59:19 pm
If you can manage a particularly eccentric orbit, you could dock at lower orbit, and let it carry your craft to a higher orbit to toss it off.  That takes quite a bit of fooling about to make it work, though...  Otherwise a standard orbit, nothing fancy.  I just dump everything at 100km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2013, 01:02:16 pm
Okay, I shall use my standard parking orbit at 200km. This should also provide me with an opportunity to train my docking skills.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 20, 2013, 01:34:43 pm
They said I was crazy, they said it couldn't be done...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally made it to the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 20, 2013, 02:02:11 pm
Sir, you are beating me. Please stop. I wish to do something without others beating me to it.

Has anyone built a station encircling a world yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 20, 2013, 02:06:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 20, 2013, 02:02:11 pm
Sir, you are beating me. Please stop. I wish to do something without others beating me to it.

Has anyone built a station encircling a world yet?
Like a planetary ring?  Unfortunately it's beyond the scope of the physics engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 20, 2013, 02:12:53 pm
Bah. Even around a flying monolith?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 20, 2013, 02:13:37 pm
Space elevator?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 20, 2013, 02:25:58 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 20, 2013, 02:12:53 pm
Bah. Even around a flying monolith?
By default things beyond a few kilometers stop being handled by the physics engine
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 20, 2013, 06:01:56 pm
Could someone send me a copy of the Kethane .zip? I'd greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 20, 2013, 08:22:13 pm
Is there an ETA on the .22 patch? I don't want to get too into this again and then restart, but all this talk has gotten me itching to try it again :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on September 20, 2013, 09:50:23 pm
Since I keep a .zip for all mods I install, I've gone ahead and uploaded it if anyone needs it, and will take it back down when the forums come back up.  (0.7.7)
This should work.

Download (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18863281/Kethane-0.7.7.zip)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 20, 2013, 10:27:01 pm
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 02:16:01 am
Mun to Kerbin: The Jeb has landed, I repeat, the Jeb has landed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is the first landing without a nuclear shuttle I've done in a long while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 04:53:56 am
Dude, your flag's on acid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 05:18:52 am
Quote from: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 04:53:56 am
Dude, your flag's on acid.
Far out, man.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 21, 2013, 09:23:52 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 05:18:52 am
Quote from: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 04:53:56 am
Dude, your flag's on acid.
Far out, man.
As your personal text says, rainbows are required
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 09:34:06 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on September 21, 2013, 09:23:52 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 05:18:52 am
Quote from: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 04:53:56 am
Dude, your flag's on acid.
Far out, man.
As your personal text says, rainbows are required
I've made a custom flag using my avatar.

Speaking of flags, is there a good way of putting a flag decal onto the rocket?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 21, 2013, 09:36:26 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 20, 2013, 02:13:37 pm
Space elevator?
I believe that there is one moon small enough to have a space elevator, except it is so small that getting into a stationary orbit above it would require you to be outside the SoI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 09:42:10 am
Woo, just bought the full version.
Let's see what trouble I can get into with new toys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 21, 2013, 09:42:56 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 21, 2013, 09:36:26 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 20, 2013, 02:13:37 pm
Space elevator?
I believe that there is one moon small enough to have a space elevator, except it is so small that getting into a stationary orbit above it would require you to be outside the SoI.
And also you can achieve orbital velocity from that moon using the rcs pack kerbal spacesuits have so a space elevator is kind of redundant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 11:45:11 am
Wow, so many new parts, I have no idea what I'm doing, D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 12:11:43 pm
I've made an adorable little lil' rocket ship with an adorable little nuclear engine. I'm going to try landing on minmus with it.

Without lander legs and RCS. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on September 21, 2013, 12:18:29 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 11:45:11 am
Wow, so many new parts, I have no idea what I'm doing, D:

This reminds me of LeGoldfish's reaction to 0.15.

Which was like "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

:v

Also, that moment when you make something look awesome and then don't know how to put it into space.

http://img.ie/cnewr.png
http://img.ie/7yd7d.png
http://img.ie/w0sl3.png
http://img.ie/3f7kw.png
too lazy to embed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 21, 2013, 12:43:18 pm
That.. looks ungainly as fuck. I don't think it would ever actually fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on September 21, 2013, 12:56:32 pm
Hell no it wouldn't. It's definitely not a plane. The wings are just for maneuvering in aerobraking and such and/or looking silly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 01:45:04 pm
Eh, put some boosters on the underside (liquid or solid), flip the primary module and stick some launch stabilizers on it.

Should get it to space in no time. Just like a Shuttle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on September 21, 2013, 02:06:49 pm
Those hybrid engines can't even lift the plane's weight, though.  And the rudders get in the way if I want to mount boosters on the top too.

Cheat testing reveals that this thing is stupidly maneuverable in roll and I probably don't need rudders anyways, though. :p It is about as elegant as an elephant in every other direction, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 03:07:28 pm
i do not know why, but whenever i am looking at the map during manuevers and I see the orbits all shifty and whatnot, i a reminded of ballet.

probably because I cock up most of my hohmanns and have to do maneouver trickery just to get somewhere. like right now. i am in polar orbit around minmus and have no idea how it became that way. what i am going to do is not try to change inclination like any reasonable person would. i am going in for a landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 03:39:51 pm
I finally have a decent rocket constructed to take a good sized rover to the Mun, but bad things keep happening.
Like, spontaneous explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 21, 2013, 03:42:33 pm
More struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 21, 2013, 03:43:03 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 03:39:51 pm
I finally have a decent rocket constructed to take a good sized rover to the Mun, but bad things keep happening.
Like, spontaneous explosions.
Thats KSP, man.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
Okay, I figured I had enough tape on this thing, but I just watched my command pod phase halfway into my ship and explode.
>:(
Troubleshooting is fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 21, 2013, 05:32:03 pm
One of my failed test flights of a Kerbin airplane just made an impromptu backwards landing.  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 05:38:20 pm
Damn it, my rover keeps breaking itself off my main ship right before I get into orbit.
Time to strut it on there real tight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 21, 2013, 05:38:33 pm
Mods are !!FUN!!.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 21, 2013, 06:07:23 pm
Okay, I FINALLY got a rover to the Mun in one piece!
The game crashed before I could get Jeb into EVA and plant a flag, but:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I just crashed Bill into one of the solar panels FUUUUUUU
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 06:33:42 pm
So I decided to try a new SSTO design.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z6gv3jHs.png) (http://imgur.com/Z6gv3jH.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 21, 2013, 06:34:35 pm
I've sent parts for a space station to Duna. It will be constructed there. Supports 16 Kerbals, 10 docked ships and can refuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on September 21, 2013, 06:39:04 pm
Quote from: da_nang on September 21, 2013, 06:34:35 pm
10 docked ships
...What kind of CPU do you have? o.O
My PC nearly died at 4 docked ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 02:02:48 am
The Minmus and Return mission was an astounding success.

Spoiler: Pictures. Lots of them. Consider yourself warned. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 22, 2013, 02:10:29 am
I love Minmus. The lack of gravity makes landings so light on fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 02:22:32 am
It also makes a surprisingly good staging point for further expeditions into the Kerbol system.

Which reminds me. The next time I send the Long Ranger there, imma equip it with a Kethane scanner.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 22, 2013, 02:29:48 am
Quote from: Fayrik on September 21, 2013, 06:39:04 pm
Quote from: da_nang on September 21, 2013, 06:34:35 pm
10 docked ships
...What kind of CPU do you have? o.O
My PC nearly died at 4 docked ships.
Choices, man. I don't expect to use them all at the same time.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 22, 2013, 12:48:25 pm
Used the same design to land Jeb on Minmus. I really like this design, but I think the lander would need more fuel to return from another planet sadly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on September 22, 2013, 01:04:56 pm
Heh. I've been working on a Minmus base myself. Seems Minmus is the most popular place to be right now. I can see why, it's currently my favourite place in the system! Between the small size and low gravity it makes RCS packs work really well.
I had a single Kerbal fly over 24km in a single run, just to drop of a KAS attachment, that is apparently broken in the new version. Gulp!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 02:11:25 pm
I have struck the highest and most economically viable density of Kethane right on Minmus. The low gravity makes orbital transport a cakewalk and it is positioned just shy of the equator. It is also a great place to launch my expeditions to the outer kerbal system from.

Also, my current nuclear manned shuttle design, the Long Ranger has proven to be incredibly versatile. If I want to change it to a long-range explorer, all I have to do is stick another tank on the front and presto, enough delta V to get basically everywhere.

Gotta say, Minmus has really turned out to be a gold mine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 22, 2013, 03:31:59 pm
The 0.22 video looks cool, can't wait to play!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 05:57:42 pm
Looking at the previous pages, I see these smallish rockets with like, 5 stages.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT TO OTHER PLANETS, I CAN BARELY GET TO THE MUN WITH LIKE, 10 STAGES, 4 OF WHICH HAVE MAINSAILS AND SOLID BOOSTERS.
Also, I figured out why none of my spaceplanes work.
I forget the control surfaces!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 22, 2013, 06:40:30 pm
It's not about size, it's about efficiency.  What you want is high thrust to weight ration, and high delta v - both of these come from having as small a mass as possible.  The less your rocket weighs, the better.

TWR is literally how much power your rocket has compared to house much weight it has.  You can get better TWR by having larger engines and smaller mass.  TWR mostly matters on the surface, as it determines your liftoff capacity - anything below TWR 1.0 cannot lift itself.  In space, TWR roughly measures how fast you can accelerate.

Delta Velocity is "how much total m/s change you can achieve".  You increase your Dv by lowering your weight, carrying more fuel, or using more fuel-efficient engines.  Once you get to orbit, Dv becomes your biggest concern, as it determines how far you can travel.

For working spaceships, you really want a good TWR on the get-into-orbit stage, and a high Dv on the let's-go-to-another-planet stage.  That means Mainsails on the lifting stage - they have INCREDIBLE thrust, but burn a LOT of fuel to do so, giving them poor fuel economy but the raw muscle needed to escape gravity.  Once in space, transition to LV-T30's or LV-N's - these have a lower power, but use fuel much more efficiently and will get you further, the LV-N's especially are 'nuclear engines' that get INCREDIBLE distance.

If I were to suggest a simple 3-stage orbiter, it'd be a large orange tank with mainsail, a few solid boosters around it, and a LV-T30 or LV-N with a small tank.  REMEMBER that a VERY small craft with a nuclear or ion engine can actually get ridiculous distances!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 22, 2013, 07:07:31 pm
did you just recommend ion engines
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 22, 2013, 07:10:52 pm
For a probe, yes.  A single Xenon tank, 2 XL Solars, and a few Ions clustered around in some configuration can get GREAT TWR and Dv on very small probes.  For experimenting and learning, probes are great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 08:20:20 pm
Thanks for that explanation of why nothing good has been happening for me, Girlinhat, :P
I'll try out what you suggested in 10 or so minutes, after a small break from Strut Simulator 2013
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on September 22, 2013, 08:30:09 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on September 22, 2013, 07:07:31 pm
did you just recommend ion engines
Ions are great for small craft.  Maybe not for planet to planet, but for adjusting orbits for satellites there is nothing better. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 22, 2013, 08:34:55 pm
And if you have the time you can go planet to planet, or go and have fighters powered by them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:35 pm
You can't open solar panels when out of electricity.
*Groaning as if in extreme pain*
Okay, second try, got a satellite to Minimus!
Which is to say, I've made 50x more progress than I have before.
Next up, either putting a lander on Minimus, or putting a Satellite around a different planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 22, 2013, 09:39:07 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:35 pm
You can't open solar panels when out of electricity.
*Groaning as if in extreme pain*
Okay, second try, got a satellite to Minimus!
Which is to say, I've made 50x more progress than I have before.
Next up, either putting a lander on Minimus, or putting a Satellite around a different planet.
That's why when I'm only using panels, I keep one of those dinky little ones that are always on, so that I'm never fully out of power that I can't open my wings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 11:23:18 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 22, 2013, 09:39:07 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:35 pm
You can't open solar panels when out of electricity.
*Groaning as if in extreme pain*
Okay, second try, got a satellite to Minimus!
Which is to say, I've made 50x more progress than I have before.
Next up, either putting a lander on Minimus, or putting a Satellite around a different planet.
That's why when I'm only using panels, I keep one of those dinky little ones that are always on, so that I'm never fully out of power that I can't open my wings.
Another thing you can do is stick an RTG on there.

hey, does KSP simulate just how inefficient solar panels get right past Mars? I never tried getting anything there without RTGs for that reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 22, 2013, 11:30:12 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 11:23:18 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 22, 2013, 09:39:07 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:35 pm
You can't open solar panels when out of electricity.
*Groaning as if in extreme pain*
Okay, second try, got a satellite to Minimus!
Which is to say, I've made 50x more progress than I have before.
Next up, either putting a lander on Minimus, or putting a Satellite around a different planet.
That's why when I'm only using panels, I keep one of those dinky little ones that are always on, so that I'm never fully out of power that I can't open my wings.
Another thing you can do is stick an RTG on there.

hey, does KSP simulate just how inefficient solar panels get right past Mars? I never tried getting anything there without RTGs for that reason.

Yeah, it does. Found that out the hard way around Laythe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 22, 2013, 11:46:45 pm
My new fueling station is ready for use:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's actually a pair of them; each starts with 48 mainsails, and can lift 20k lox & 20k fuel. They have all sorts of docking ports; though I found they are a huge pain to dock to other things, since their rcs is weak and way off center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 23, 2013, 01:35:41 am
I have a feeling that part count might cause problems in the long run. I usually just dock inline full orange tanks and separate the transporter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2013, 02:33:07 am
It's also not wise to leave engines attached to your stations, at least not permanently. Part count is one thing, but anything that can cause you to lose the station by accident is not good.

Also, that thing is going to be hell to dock to. Just saying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 23, 2013, 05:41:25 am
Quote from: Descan on September 22, 2013, 09:39:07 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 22, 2013, 09:03:35 pm
You can't open solar panels when out of electricity.
*Groaning as if in extreme pain*
Okay, second try, got a satellite to Minimus!
Which is to say, I've made 50x more progress than I have before.
Next up, either putting a lander on Minimus, or putting a Satellite around a different planet.
That's why when I'm only using panels, I keep one of those dinky little ones that are always on, so that I'm never fully out of power that I can't open my wings.

+1 and keep them angled it happened to me that I were exacty perpendicular to the sun once and I missed the injection burn to duna
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 23, 2013, 09:17:12 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on September 23, 2013, 02:33:07 am
It's also not wise to leave engines attached to your stations, at least not permanently. Part count is one thing, but anything that can cause you to lose the station by accident is not good.

Also, that thing is going to be hell to dock to. Just saying.
Yeah, accidentally exploded the station with accelerating in the middle of a fuel transfer. Luckily, I killed the process before it autosaved again. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 02:38:29 pm
Forums are back!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: azurelao on September 23, 2013, 03:06:51 pm
Forums hacked..apparently.

Also, is Kethane 7.7 compatible with the Steam version? Would I have to start a new game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 23, 2013, 03:10:16 pm
It's been working fine for me in my old game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 03:44:56 pm
I downloaded the Kethane and Spherical Tanks mod, and wow, these are pretty cool.
I have a Kethane Scanner on route to Duna as I type this.
Can't wait to reap the fruits of my sow, or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
It would appear the Wet Workshop mod has dissappeared from existance. huh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 23, 2013, 03:59:35 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
It would appear the Wet Workshop mod has dissappeared from existance. huh.
I've never heard of such a mod.  Are you sure it ever truly did exist?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 04:06:40 pm
Nuuuuu, I almost made it that time!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How does one get themselves flying at a planet in such a way that it doesn't take 10 years to get into it's orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 04:09:51 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 23, 2013, 03:59:35 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
It would appear the Wet Workshop mod has dissappeared from existance. huh.
I've never heard of such a mod.  Are you sure it ever truly did exist?
i am fairly certain. if I do a google search, it even finds the supposed page of the mod. i just cannot access it.

it is basically a mod that allows the spent fuel tanks to be used as a makeshift living areas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 04:19:46 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 04:06:40 pm
How does one get themselves flying at a planet in such a way that it doesn't take 10 years to get into it's orbit?
You launch yourself when it as at a certain point in the orbit, you never head straight for it. I will now find the wiki on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 23, 2013, 04:24:07 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 04:06:40 pm
Nuuuuu, I almost made it that time!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How does one get themselves flying at a planet in such a way that it doesn't take 10 years to get into it's orbit?
Fiddling with manoeuvre nodes and wasting a load of fuel with inefficient burns. It works for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 04:26:32 pm
I think you aim before or behind it, when it is at a certain angle from you. it catches up to you, not you to it.
I suggest watching youtube videos where someone sets up to head to another world, or if you dont want to know just use mechjeb.

But be warned, the window for this shit may happen only once a year, or once every ten.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 23, 2013, 07:39:16 pm
How do you transfer fuel between docked ships?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 08:23:28 pm
shift click the two parts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 23, 2013, 09:23:25 pm
As someone who's only used the Kethane mod, watching this just blew my mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1AD2LWAc9Q

The beginning is sorta boring, but then there's so much KSP content I've never seen that I don't even know what to think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 24, 2013, 12:57:14 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 04:26:32 pm
But be warned, the window for this shit may happen only once a year, or once every ten.
Easier (or less timing-intensive) way:

1. Pack way more delta-V than necessary.
2. Launch into a retrograde Solar orbit.
3. Bring your Sol periapsis to around Moho orbit.
4. Select your target planet.
5. Place a node on your orbit, push its prograde far forward, then drag the resulting node until your projected orbit intersects.

It's called a bi-elliptic transfer, or perhaps a "reverse" bi-elliptic transfer, and it saves you the need to wait for a launch window by giving you an elliptic trajectory that can lead you anywhere. It takes anywhere from two to four times as much delta-V to pull off, depending on where you're going, however.

(that's the reason it's "reverse" - the normal bi-elliptic transfer is used to save dV at the expense of time)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 24, 2013, 01:32:07 pm
Spoiler: Comm satellite from would-be L4 (click to show/hide)

Have also been experimenting with spaceplanes, but no luck so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 24, 2013, 08:04:45 pm
I think it was here a amonth ago? Or was it two...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 24, 2013, 10:36:41 pm
Aw man, that guy has the best videos, including some of the most hilarious IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 crash videos :)

Seriously though, it cannot be easy to get all of the things that guy got going over there. And actually hitting things... kinda just makes you wish for KSP2 with multiplayer :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on September 25, 2013, 09:19:43 am
Quote from: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 04:09:51 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 23, 2013, 03:59:35 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on September 23, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
It would appear the Wet Workshop mod has dissappeared from existance. huh.
I've never heard of such a mod.  Are you sure it ever truly did exist?
i am fairly certain. if I do a google search, it even finds the supposed page of the mod. i just cannot access it.

it is basically a mod that allows the spent fuel tanks to be used as a makeshift living areas.
Voila.  (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/35611-WIP-v0-1-Wet-Workshops-Live-inside-your-fuel-tanks™)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 25, 2013, 09:20:47 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 08:23:28 pm
shift click the two parts?
No. Alt-rightclick. Shift will just turn on your engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 25, 2013, 09:28:49 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on September 24, 2013, 10:36:41 pm
Seriously though, it cannot be easy to get all of the things that guy got going over there. And actually hitting things... kinda just makes you wish for KSP2 with multiplayer :)
You can cheat ships into orbit, that's not a big deal.  For the purposes of making a video, essentially a short movie, I think some artistic license for moving things into place.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 25, 2013, 02:05:44 pm
Quote from: alway on September 25, 2013, 09:20:47 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 23, 2013, 08:23:28 pm
shift click the two parts?
No. Alt-rightclick. Shift will just turn on your engines.
Hell, I can never remember these things. Heck, I dont even have docking working right for me, from lack of knowledge of keys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 25, 2013, 02:32:34 pm
Oh god... I had a ship with a part count of just over 1000. The game nearly crashed at least 5 times. Didn't even make it into orbit with it before it exploded :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 25, 2013, 02:34:59 pm
Did it have adapters then gong back to one? Because those things are the pits to keep everything working.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on September 25, 2013, 03:06:09 pm
So, I finally took the plunge again after two years, and started playing again.  My immediate impression is that a lot of changes have been made since I vaulted Kerbonauts into the inky void; just the symmetry button alone is completely worth the weight of a million rockets, not to mention an entire solar system to play with.  Pursuing the Soviet list of accomplishments, I managed to launch three satellites (Venture 1 reached space, but not a proper orbit; Venture 2 reached orbit...around the Sun; and Venture 3 finally managed a proper equatorial circular orbit), put a Kerbal in orbit (and dropped him safely, even better), and managed my first EVA.  I've been having quite a bit of fun, but I had a couple questions. 

1. Are there any tips on EVA?  My first attempt was a nerve-wracking experience; I burned 20% of the pack's fuel on playing around and getting used to the controls, but went through another 50% of the total capacity just trying to get Bill back inside.  I'd manoeuvre in carefully and slowly, press F to grab on to the ladder of the Command Pod Mk1 I was using, and Bill would promptly catapult right off the rocket again, leading to me firing off the jets and wasting even more pack fuel just to keep him from soaring away.  I was trying to keep my relative v down with the rocket; was I doing something obvious wrong? 

2. Any good mods or custom packs to consider, or should I stick with vanilla for a bit longer?  I mean, mounting a Stayputnik smack dab on the top of the rocket works, but I'd like to actually have it contained within a deployable/explodable nose cone bay for aesthetics.  Also, I've heard good things about mods like Protractor, Kethane, and MechJeb (though I'm a little leery of notion of autopilot), and something called Deadly Reentry looks very Fun. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 25, 2013, 03:12:45 pm
EVA... Well, keep close to the ship. And ladders EVERYWHERE.
Mods... Well, I dont use many most of the time. If you want autopilot with a challenge I must suggest kOS. Deadly reentry requires more mods most of the time, B9 is a good place for parts and mechjeb is odd. Better off going for Lazer instead of mechjeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 25, 2013, 03:58:49 pm
I kinda like mechjeb, sure it's kinda cheaty when it does so many autopilots but seeing how the mechjeb autopilot does something is a great learning tool for learning how to do something yourself.  I never knew how to change my inclination until I saw mechjeb do it once, the whole time I was playing with prerelease I thought that if I didn't get the inclination I wanted by the time I reached orbit I couldn't anymore.

It's also helpful for doing things you've done a million times, like getting a rocket into orbit that you piloted into orbit yourself half a dozen times while you go make a sandwich.

That and I would be very surprised if NASA does much of any piloting manually anymore.  You could almost call it added realism.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 25, 2013, 04:00:28 pm
Ah, but NASA writes its codes for that guff. Hense why I like kOS. It lets you do the autopilot, but you still gotta know how it is done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 25, 2013, 04:07:13 pm
Yeah, a computer can figure that stuff out, but only if it has an equation to do it with.

Someone needs to figure out the equation and put it in the computer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2013, 04:50:53 pm
I just don't like mechjeb for some reason. I get itchy watching it do its thing, and I always have the urge to take control back myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 25, 2013, 05:14:03 pm
Kethane, definitely. Totally changed the game for me. Gives it a proper purpose. I'm trying to hold off playing too much until the next patch!

I've been trying to make a plane that launches a rokkit with stock parts. It is not going well at all... can't stabilise the damned thing at all :( Also, the plane goes faster than the rokkit, so... huh... doesn't really work :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 26, 2013, 01:14:50 am
I am too waiting the next update.
Sub assemblies are game changing but extremely convenient as I standardized all launcher and payloads to focus on kethane and planetary construction.

While waiting I am messing around with ferram aerospace research.

One little thing I cannot live without is docking struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 26, 2013, 08:14:47 am
What do those do? Automatically attach to the other ship once you dock?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 26, 2013, 09:28:15 am
You eva go near one activate it then go near another and link them up.

Then they work as structs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 26, 2013, 11:46:47 am
Dragon capsules are ridiculously OP.

By which I mean they feel like something a real space agency would develop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tobel on September 26, 2013, 11:49:46 am
I really wish they hadn't put up the .22 info when they were so far away from releasing it. I've been checking their website every day like a clingy SO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 11:54:20 am
I guess I should atleast try to get my rover/kethane drill on the Mun.
Despite multiple attempts, I can't seem to get it there, due to the fact that it's quite weighty, no doubt.
I know the first thing I should do is try to lighten it, but...
Oh hey, I could probably get two half-sized drills up there instead of the one large rig I've got.
Thanks, thread, for giving me a place to write stuff down and look at it more closely, :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 26, 2013, 12:38:51 pm
Spoiler: Spaceplanes! I like to call this a "Hot Seat" design. Ready with a lander in the back. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Refueling at the station. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Turns out the little lander was short on fuel. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: So we sent one up with double! We're sending the old one back. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Landing success! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Within jetpack distance of momentous flag. (click to show/hide)

Finally, as I switched to my Jool probe to correct its course, it was subsequently eaten by the Hell Kraken.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 02:04:50 pm
I...
I give up, no matter how much I lighten the drill rover without changing it entirely, I cannot make a ship that can get it to orbit the Mun.
Whether this means I just can't fly worth a crap, or that I can't build a ship worth a crap, I don't know.
Please, Bay 12, I come to you in my moment of need to build me a ship to get this thing to the Mun.
It's not like it's huge or heavy, I've gotten bigger things into Orbit before, but this thing just doesn't want to do it.
Make sure you have the Kethane Pack, otherwise you won't have half the parts that compose the rover, :P

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39635912/Kethane%20Drill%20Rig%20Mk_2%20%28Rover%20Only%29.craft
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 26, 2013, 02:07:46 pm
Have you tried making a larger launch vehicle?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 02:16:00 pm
Of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 26, 2013, 02:20:20 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 02:16:00 pm
Of course.
How many stages did it have, and how many fuel tanks was each mainsail lifting?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 26, 2013, 02:20:45 pm
Asparagus!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 26, 2013, 02:22:28 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 26, 2013, 02:20:45 pm
Asparagus!
Asparagus rockets have issues with balance once struts get involved.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 26, 2013, 02:22:59 pm
step 1. put 300 boosters directly under the craft
step 2. launch
step 3. sprinkle struts among major fault lines
step 4. repeat #2 and #3 until craft semi-stable
step 5. add more boosters
step 6. repeat #2 and #3 until craft enters orbit

seriously it's not hard (the kerbin-mun manuever doesn't take much delta-v anyway)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 26, 2013, 02:29:58 pm
Add more orange + mainsail in symmetry, with asparagus, until you've got something powerful enough.

Seriously, this is how the 'pros' do it.  Just keep adding tanks and engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 02:32:24 pm
The ship I was using:


Stage 4:
Mainsail, Big Orange Tank, 8 Big Solid Boosters.

Stage 3:
Mainsail, Big Orange Tank, 8 Big Solid Boosters.

Stage 2:
Skipper, Big Orange Tank, 4 Radial Engines, 8 Small Solid Boosters.

Stage 1/Everything that is on the Rover to get it to the Mun when everything else is out of fuel:
2 Large Solid Boosters, 4 Radial Engines.


EDIT: I'll try asparagus, I've been hesitant to try that because I read it was kinda tricky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 26, 2013, 02:34:13 pm
your fourth stage does not have enough twr

add 16 more big boosters symmetrically and strut them together at the outermost edges
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 26, 2013, 02:34:50 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on September 26, 2013, 02:29:58 pm
Add more orange + mainsail in symmetry, with asparagus, until you've got something powerful enough.

Seriously, this is how the 'pros' do it.  Just keep adding tanks and engines.
I have never seen anything outside of parts of megastructures where more than 1 layer of asparagus staging was needed to get into Kerbin's orbit. More power often isn't all that useful in the launch stage. What's more important is considering the Thrust:Weight ratio, and how much resistance the air is giving you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on September 26, 2013, 02:43:43 pm
Thank you all for the mod advice.  I've already loaded Kethane, Protractor, and Crew Manifest (after watching an interesting Constellation video), and I'll definitely add on MechJeb as well and take a look at B9.  I also found Procedural Fairings (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39512-0-21-Procedural-Fairings-2-4-1-interstage-adapter-added), which looks like it could be somewhat promising. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 26, 2013, 02:49:39 pm
This  launcher (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/633039016669414767/C404E83F43D5E388CEB5D2F2609FE802BB73C695/) is the reason I'm waiting for the 0.22 patch's saveable parts. This thing gets stuff that's pretty heavy into orbit. Also, there are definitely wobble issues, which is why it has the spider-leg design with struts!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 26, 2013, 02:51:16 pm
The farings mod is fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 26, 2013, 04:52:40 pm
I did the Asparagus thing, and wow, that was easier than I was expecting it to be.
The hard part was getting my rover/drill successfully on the Mun, It likes to tip over.
Now just to get it to the Kethane without killing Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 26, 2013, 05:00:05 pm
Eh, Jeb dying is kind of a wash. Could be a success, could be failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2013, 01:57:19 am
I just got to minmus. Upon rendezvous to my orbiter, I realized something.

I forgot RCS.

Shit.

Long story short, I docked anyway. Took 3 tries (no disassembly, just 3 passes), but it worked. Woo!

EDIT: Checking the fuel reserves on the orbiter reveals that it's dead weight anyway. Whoops. Oh well, I guess I'll just slam it into minmus then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 27, 2013, 02:18:47 pm
You can learn a lot about an orbital body by slamming something into it and watching the debris fly. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 27, 2013, 03:28:17 pm
The hardest part of asparagus is arranging the seperatrons to stage properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 27, 2013, 03:34:06 pm
Seperatrons are assholes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on September 27, 2013, 03:54:32 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 27, 2013, 03:28:17 pm
The hardest part of asparagus is arranging the seperatrons to stage properly.

Huh. I've rarely needed to use seperatrons with my rockets. Are you doing something large and complex?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 27, 2013, 03:56:34 pm
Quote from: Putnam on September 27, 2013, 01:57:19 am
I just got to minmus. Upon rendezvous to my orbiter, I realized something.

I forgot RCS.

Shit.

Long story short, I docked anyway. Took 3 tries (no disassembly, just 3 passes), but it worked. Woo!

EDIT: Checking the fuel reserves on the orbiter reveals that it's dead weight anyway. Whoops. Oh well, I guess I'll just slam it into minmus then.

If you have screenshots, you just completed this week's weekly challenge on the KSP subreddit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2013, 04:51:37 pm
DAMMIT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 28, 2013, 03:02:58 am
Quote from: Mephansteras on September 27, 2013, 03:54:32 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 27, 2013, 03:28:17 pm
The hardest part of asparagus is arranging the seperatrons to stage properly.

Huh. I've rarely needed to use seperatrons with my rockets. Are you doing something large and complex?
It just wobbles far too much because I am terrible at designing rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 28, 2013, 03:05:47 am
Wobbling is fixed with just having more struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 28, 2013, 03:23:53 am
Consult the Engineering Flowchart whenever you have issues.

Spoiler: Engineering Flowchart (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 28, 2013, 08:29:19 am
There's a MUCH better version.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 28, 2013, 09:17:37 am
Instant win right there!

I don't think I'm going to be able to wait until the next patch to start KSPing again... dammit, don't feel like loosing all of the saved games or whatnot, but doing and building things is just too attractive :\ I've also only ever been to the Mun.

How many of you do orbital refuelling before travelling to further away places? Is it needed? I tend not to use boosters, since too many of them and everything runs at negative 10fps...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: March on September 28, 2013, 09:55:56 am
You can technically get a kerbal to the mun surface and back in under 20 parts... I've seen it done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 28, 2013, 10:59:42 am
I cannot make a proper spaceplane, at all.
Oh, it takes off and flies perfectly in a straight line?
It will spin and the wings will fly off when you try to turn.
It took off, and can turn pretty good?
Well when you go up and down it's going to flip atleast 3 times in whatever direction and rip the wings off.
Everything else works and you're trying to land?
YOUR LANDING GEARS JUST EXPLODED.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 28, 2013, 11:37:28 am
Okay, so I've caved in and tried to make something with KAS (as I usually fly stock).
It left me with some... mixed impressions, due to some issues I'll try to find solutions to.

First experiment was, uncreatively enough, a space tug.

Spoiler: This thing (click to show/hide)

A trained eye may spot some glaring errors from the get-go, but I'll describe my experience with it in detail. Or try to.

The first launch went well, the carrier rocket (a somewhat unconventionally slim asparagus) having a TWR just at/around 2.00 at launch. Boosting into the skies, the asparagus shell exhausts itself just as it's time to do the gravity turn, and everything seems fine... until slightly too-strong wiggle of the controls shears the pusher stage off the center tank, leaving it locked in place but without any sort of control over the main engine. A typical KSP "oh crap" moment. The pilot, Bill, is rather distressed.

After some attempts to steer the resulting contraption, I decide it's better to abort the whole thing and get back to the ground. Decoupling the pusher stage does nothing - it's already broken off, and the extra force does not overcome the thrust of the main engine, which is at this point gradually turning northward and groundward. Firing the pusher stage, though, detonates everything below the tug's engines, including the winch array. Welp. At least the landing legs are intact. Adjusting the trajectory a little with the tug's engines so that it ends on land rather than in the water, I try to orient the craft "bottom down" to prepare for deceleration and landing.

At this point I notice two things. Firstly, the craft is aerodynamically inclined to always point "nose forward". It takes some doing, firing RCS to help the pod's reaction wheel, but eventually the tug is flipped nose up and legs are extended.

Secondly, I forgot to add parachutes. >_>

Thankfully, the tug has a TWR of >1, so it manages a powered landing... in pieces, after hitting a sudden incline. No lights either. *sigh* Well, any landing you can walk away from... Bill seems okay with it at least.

------------
The craft is returned to the launchpad post haste. The ascent is perfect this time, and the pusher stage dies just short of proper orbit, allowing the tug to circularize by itself and leaving no extra debris in space. The target is set: an old piece of debris, a small rocket used to deliver an RCS shuttlebike to the refueling station. It still has some fuel, and it has a command pod too, but since deorbiting it with a pilot on board would be bad (it has no means to even decouple the pod), this tug is a perfect way to get it back to the ground.

The approach is fairly uneventful, Bill easily syncs up the tug's orbit with the piece of debris, and soon enough the two are right next to each other, even despite a momentary delay as I realize that the tug has no lateral RCS - it can translate sideways, up, down, but not forward or back. Welp. But no matter. Everything else on this flight went right so far.

Commencing first test of the winch system. I haven't so much as read the readme on the thing, so Bill is going in blind. The tug has four winches, all aimed sideways, each equipped with a connector and a detachable connector port. In addition, four electro-magnets are stored in bays on the secondary pod of the tug - just in case the detachable ports don't work.

Just in case.

The first attempt to retrieve a connector port ends with the thing drifting off into space, further attempts to pick it up unsuccessful.

The second attempt succeeds, although it takes several tries of different actions before the port is safely stored on Bill's backpack, and the connector itself is left floating next to the tug, the winch cable trailing behind it. So far so good.

However, no attempt to actually place the supposedly attachable radial connector port ever succeeds. Even putting it back onto the tug fails, an attempt born of suspicion that craft made prior to installation of KAS are somehow immune to the function.

The second radial connector port floats off into the void...

Obviously, at this point the "just in case" option becomes the primary one. Bill retrieves a magnet, and successfully attaches it to the floating connector. Then, after some fumbling, picks the magnet up together with the cable, and deposits it near the disused rocket. Success! All that's left is to get back into the tug and... why is it floating away?

A momentary check of the surroundings reveals that while Bill fumbled with the winches, the tug, at a snail's pace of 10 centimeters per second, had gradually crept away from the target rocket, and had picked just that moment to drift beyond the winch cable's maximum 50-meter range. Crap.

Well, nothing bad happened yet. Only time lost. Bill gets back into the tug, takes a moment to look at the winch controls (for the first time since launch), and reels the floating magnet back in. A minute or drifting around later (without lateral RCS), and the tug is back in position. Bill gets out again, and goes to pick up the magnet to deposit it near the rocket. After picking the magnet up, Bill hits the winch control button for "extend", allowing the cable to build slack, and flies off towards the rocket. Some seconds after he approaches it, an ominous shadow gives him mere moments to react as the tug, pulled by the cable, smashes into the rocket, sending it spinning.

Apparently Bill accidentally pressed the button for "retract".

Welp.

No damage done yet again, but even more time is lost. Not like there's a time limit, but still.

Bill gets back into the rocket as the cable retracts and the magnet is locked in place. It takes another minute or two to catch up to the now-spinning piece of debris. The spinning makes it dangerous to approach, but at the same time it's a perfect excuse to test another of the winch's functions - "Eject". The magnet being a magnet, it should ideally be able to attach easily enough even to a spinning object. After a quick initial test of the system - the magnet flies off, rebounds back on the elastic cable, and clamps onto the tug's hull - everything is ready. The tug is in position, the target is in sight, all that's needed is to aim... oh right, all winches face sideways. Welp.

No matter. For a seasoned veteran such as Bill, this is peanuts. Some fiddling around with controls later (no lateral RCS...), and the first shot with the magnetic projectile hits home, a dull 'clang' announcing, even through the vacuum of space, that the mission is a success. The tug accelerates slowly in retrograde, finally pulling the disused piece of rocketry out of its orbit. With only one cable attached and the rocket still spinning, the tug is being pulled all over the place, but the SAS system holds fast - the course is (roughly) held. It seems that, after all the trouble with the system, everything might finally work out.

Suddenly, the magnet clamps off from the rocket. Bill checks for damage - nothing. Did it just get torn off, due to the stress? Maybe. The rocket's orbit wasn't altered enough yet, so the tug turns around and flies back, reeling its magnet in to try a second time. Bill wants to take no chances a second time, so after parking the tug, he goes out and attaches another magnet - to the winch opposite the first one, which is coincidentally the same one the first connector port was lost from. Two magnets should hold better than one.

Back in the tug, Bill aims the winch to fire... and hits a snag. Now there are two winches with magnets on them, and he can't remember which one he's aiming. He hits one at random. A connector shoots out to the side. Whoops, wrong button. He hits one of the "Magnet" winches. The opposite one ejects its magnet. Welp. Only one left... *click* *clang*. Yes!

With one magnet attached, the other two winches reel in. And suddenly stop. Bill pushes the button again. It stops again. And the magnet has disengaged too. What the...

It takes some time to figure out the problem, which is partially caused by the huge GUI window of the KAS system. Or at least it was hidden by it. Hiding behind the KAS window was the resource readout, and a big yellow sign reading "Winch operation stopped: No power". From there, the final design error reveals itself.

Back when the tug was being designed, the magnets were put on as a spur-of-the-moment decision. "Just in case", should the radial connector ports not work. The bays that hold the electric magnets occupy the same places on the hull where the main solar arrays of the tug were supposed to be, and were later forgotten to be placed. The two flat "emergency" panels on the craft supplied it enough power to work the winches and reaction wheels while it was on the day side of Kerbin, and the eight battery packs provided enough of a power supply that the problem didn't become immediately apparent. As such, having spent too much time in space and drifting towards Kerbin's night side, the tug had completely run out of power, with only occasional trickles fed in by the last of the Sun's rays.

Seeing no other options, Bill declares the mission failed. The tug spends a moment to recharge a little and reel in the floating connectors, then points itself retrograde and deorbits.

The deorbit trajectory takes the tug well into Kerbin's night side. With no power to work the reaction wheels, and the short profile of the craft giving the RCS and the LV-909 thrust-vectored engines too little control authority in the atmosphere, the tug cannot tumble over to decelerate.

The parachute... um. What parachute? >_>

The R&D division had dutifully collected all the data from the ship's black box (which they had to extract from under fifty meters of desert sand), and by the time Bill emerges from his hospital bed/cloning tube, they will have a much renewed and improved model of the space tug ready for him to pilot. That rocket won't deorbit itself. ^_^


...
Also, belated wall of text warning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 28, 2013, 11:48:42 am
Hahahahahah :D

Dammit, me and my fear of mods. All that sounds really interesting :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 28, 2013, 12:08:14 pm
T/W ratio for landing is only really required for Kerbin and other atmospheric planets. I managed to land on Minmus and Mun with just the nuclear engine and quite heavy ships. the burns take longer, but they're totally possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 28, 2013, 01:23:08 pm
Spoiler: After a little revision... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Success! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And it only cost us a solar panel! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ...or maybe not. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ah well. Success! (click to show/hide)

:D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:11:37 pm
The KSP forums still down?

Can someone recommend (and link me if at all possible, I can try google but my fu has been week) some good mods to use that don't change the game much? Parts, Kethane, etc?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 28, 2013, 03:24:48 pm
Kethane changes the game significantly, but only in terms of goals.  The buttons are all the same, but you suddenly have the desire to land bases and start mining for fuel.

I've got the wrenches installed, after watching a youtube to see how they work, they're very fun and have a lot of potential.

Damned Robotics is fun too, lots of utility items that are just quirky to play with and interesting.

I've been debating something with helicopter engines or similar, as airlifting works perfectly in-line with those wrenches, but I'm not sure if I wanna go there...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 28, 2013, 03:28:37 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:11:37 pm
The KSP forums still down?

Can someone recommend (and link me if at all possible, I can try google but my fu has been week) some good mods to use that don't change the game much? Parts, Kethane, etc?
KSP forums are up.

You should check if you've added anything to your hosts file when the forums went down before. That was the problem I was having.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 28, 2013, 03:29:27 pm
You could laser struts or whatever they are.

I forget the name of the mod though :C
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 28, 2013, 03:30:51 pm
Quantum struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 28, 2013, 03:33:27 pm
Yea, I remember those being quite cool, im pretty sure you can activate/deactivate them at will too
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 28, 2013, 03:34:46 pm
Quantum Struts is the name, i believe.

I have limited myself to spherical fuel tanks, the robotic arms pack, the VASIMR engine from space factory and FusTek docking and Karmony modules.

it might sound like a lot, but it really isn't. I tried many other mods and part packs and these ones are the only ones that remained, curiously enough.

edit: ninja'd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:44:30 pm
I haven't played enough to know for sure, but is it possible to have an array of rockets around a central pillar, connected to each other with struts or something, and connected to the central rocket/pillar with decouplers? And when you release the decouplers, those rockets stay tied together?

It'd be purely asthetic, of course... Hm. Can you attach decouplers to the sheath that formers over a rocket when a decoupler is placed below it? And will that keep the rockets together?

It's for a lander I want to land on the Mun. Keep the base on the Mun, launch the crew-pod back up to the orbitting vehicle, dock it to the back with an array of rockets around it, and get home that way. A la the Apollo mission, kind of.

I should go mock-up in KSP. >_> Mods! Kethane, I needs it. We'll go from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 28, 2013, 03:52:46 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:44:30 pm
I haven't played enough to know for sure, but is it possible to have an array of rockets around a central pillar, connected to each other with struts or something, and connected to the central rocket/pillar with decouplers? And when you release the decouplers, those rockets stay tied together?

It'd be purely asthetic, of course...
If I'm imagining right then that would break the tree structure of the parts system. Only way I know of doing it in VAB/SPH is with practically perfectly aligned docking ports.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:57:37 pm
What about the sheath idea?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on September 28, 2013, 04:00:42 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:57:37 pm
What about the sheath idea?
No way I know of. Not stock anyways. (Purely coherence, not empirical.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 28, 2013, 04:03:23 pm
Quote from: Descan on September 28, 2013, 03:57:37 pm
What about the sheath idea?
If you're dead-set on it, you could work on it with docking ports and some figgigling to piece the ship together on the launch pad by decoupling the structs and docking the ports...  But it gets heavy and impractical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 28, 2013, 04:16:17 pm
Spoiler: Oy! Get back here, you! (click to show/hide)
So the latest in my series of 'make rockets based on SpaceX's rockets' has shown that, while the smaller Falcon 9 and Falcon 9 Heavy - alikes made with medium rockets and fuel tanks works gloriously (can escape the sun in fact), doing the same with mainsails and orange tanks doesn't work well at all. The larger forces resulting from more fuel and thrust end up making the entire rocket unstable and prone to randomly just dropping its shit everywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 28, 2013, 04:49:14 pm
Then try limiting acceleration? You are using liquid fuel, it's a nice boon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on September 28, 2013, 09:26:35 pm
Doesn't work with Falcon-alikes. The thrust:weight ratio is very low, to the point where they barely lift off the ground when full (the smaller version actually needed to burn for about 2 seconds, as its thrust:weight starts at 1:1). As seen in that image, it's be thrusting on full for 2 minutes and is at a mere 10km and 225m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 28, 2013, 09:42:04 pm
It'd be great if there was a parts editor, where you had to maintain the physics of what you're editting.(so no 100% efficient super-thrusters with no downsides)

For those of us who can't mod, of course. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on September 28, 2013, 09:47:28 pm
I had similar problems with the gargantuan rockets I attempted making in the demo, generally i found more struts and creative use of decouplers+struts helped, but I could never get the N 1 to orbit. (oddly enough it's difficult to get a rocket composed of lots of little engines to work correctly)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on September 29, 2013, 05:04:50 am
Wow. I am absolutely terrible at this game.


Like, seriously. My asparagus system drains -backwards-. The central tank empties out soon after the first two outer tanks.

Adding more thrust and changing the systems to be more efficient makes my rocket go slower and not reach as high. :v

So either my game is bugged or I am absolutely wretched.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 29, 2013, 05:17:29 am
You need to be careful from which tank you set the fuel line. If you start it at the central one, the central tank will drain into whichever one you linked it to.


Anyway, the Enhanced Navball mod is amazing. A must-have for people who like to fly by the Navball without including too many maneuvers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 29, 2013, 07:43:52 am
Are there any mods with walking legs?
I want to put a quadropod rover on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: March on September 29, 2013, 07:50:23 am
Just search the spaceport for "robotic" or "legs" your bound to find something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 29, 2013, 07:54:25 am
Quote from: Descan on September 28, 2013, 09:42:04 pm
It'd be great if there was a parts editor, where you had to maintain the physics of what you're editting.(so no 100% efficient super-thrusters with no downsides)

For those of us who can't mod, of course. :P
Actually, I remember seeing some kind of dynamic in game part development mod. It looked very interesting. And it still has phsyics and stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 30, 2013, 02:33:11 am
Search the plugins forum for "procedural". Right now there are procedural tanks, procedural wings, and procedural fairings. I think procedural engines were in the works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on September 30, 2013, 02:40:40 am
My first orbital depot was a failure. I sent up a resupply craft. When i tried to approach it, the acceleration got stuck and the craft collided at a relative speed of 100mps. It was very pretty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 30, 2013, 03:37:19 am
My updated space tug, in a display of true Kerbal "let's see what this baby can do" mentality, aborted its second test flight's "return to Kerbin" stage, and set course for the Mun.

Good news: it got there.

Bad news:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...kiiiiinda ran out of fuel. Not enough to crash, but enough to be unable to get out of the crater I landed in. On rockets, at least. Winch-crawling go! ^_^

Still, that leaves Erbree Kerman stranded on the Mun with no fuel. And you know what that means...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rrrrescue mission! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: azurelao on September 30, 2013, 08:09:26 am
how do you launch those large, 4-engine landers? I keep trying to get one into orbit, and then to Mun so I can start kethane mining, but the rocket only ever gets up a few hundred feet before tipping over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 30, 2013, 08:17:14 am
Quote from: azurelao on September 30, 2013, 08:09:26 am
how do you launch those large, 4-engine landers? I keep trying to get one into orbit, and then to Mun so I can start kethane mining, but the rocket only ever gets up a few hundred feet before tipping over.
Add more SAS and/or RCS.  In the atmosphere wings will also help.

If you're feeling more engineering, then a wider footprint helps - specifically if you would put a few long girders with engines on the edges, it can increase your stability by spreading your thrust.  It can be tricky to get right, but if you position your thrust relative to your mass just right, things get real stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 30, 2013, 10:14:40 am
Quote from: azurelao on September 30, 2013, 08:09:26 am
how do you launch those large, 4-engine landers? I keep trying to get one into orbit, and then to Mun so I can start kethane mining, but the rocket only ever gets up a few hundred feet before tipping over.
Thrust vectored main stack, SAS, fine controls. Make a long rocket, make it balanced, aim for a TWR of 2. Little winglets help control roll.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2013, 04:19:01 am
Quote from: azurelao on September 30, 2013, 08:09:26 am
how do you launch those large, 4-engine landers? I keep trying to get one into orbit, and then to Mun so I can start kethane mining, but the rocket only ever gets up a few hundred feet before tipping over.

Also notice that you have center of thrust, gravity and pressure indicators enabled from the button below the component palette. Make sure cebter of pressure is behind center of gravity by a fair bit (indicator only calculates wing not cones and parts. Far mod fixes that but it is hard )
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 02, 2013, 07:27:28 am
Just in case there's anyone not paying attention. News of the update progress came out yesterday.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/217-KSP-Weekly-October-1-2013 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/217-KSP-Weekly-October-1-2013)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/971-Doing-Science-Celestial-Body-Biomes%21 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/971-Doing-Science-Celestial-Body-Biomes%21)

TL;DR: As of the next update we'll have reasons to visit other planets. Science will be possible from both orbit and the ground. This science will need to be returned either via radio communications or by directly returning a science capsule to Kerbin. Not only will there be science to do in space though, but plenty to do on Kerbin as well as different biomes will have different science benefits. Additionally, while biomes themselves will have different benefits to science up, specific sites might have even different bonuses. (Example given was Kerbin Grasslands versus the Kerbin Space Center grass.) Part R&D is still a big thing as well.

TL;DR:TL;DR: They say it's the biggest update they've ever done to KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 02, 2013, 09:49:24 am
WHY WAS THIS NOT ON THE MAIN PAGE

I keep checking their main page for their weekly updates. They do an amazing job at them, AND they're a really competent team that keeps producing results. Love'em :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 02, 2013, 01:15:58 pm
SQUEE 8D

*play portal's "still alive in his head*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 02, 2013, 02:57:59 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on October 02, 2013, 01:15:58 pm
SQUEE 8D

*play portal's "still alive in his head*
"We do what we must because we can."
KSP in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 02, 2013, 03:19:41 pm
Yep, next version adds career mode.

There's no reason to not be excited about that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 03, 2013, 01:34:10 am
"Disable radiation safety"
Excellent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 03, 2013, 09:11:01 am
Following up on this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4648568#msg4648568), the mission to rescue SpaceTug Two, along with Erbree Kerman, who are both stranded on the Mun, had finally occured! With only two major problems along the way, even.

The launch went fairly uneventfully, though the wobbles had at one point required turning off SAS and manually steering the rocket to prevent it from accidentally shearing off something important. Still, the pusher stage did its job admirably, and the refueling rover is Mun-bound, with just under half the lander stage's fuel remaining.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The transfer to the Mun and the landing process were in one part too uneventful for screenshots, and in the other part too exciting to remember to make them, but it went thus.

Approaching the Mun with a "fall-in" ballistic trajectory, the rover uses up its lander stage to kill most of the horizontal velocity, which leaves it with nothing but its own reserves of fuel, and six 24-77 engines. The control module is oriented forward, so killing the rest of the velocity and controlling the descent cannot be effectively done with just the navball - but thankfully the rover has decent allowances for drift at landing. In the ridiculously low Mun gravity, a vehicle that can manage an emergency powered landing on Kerbin, lands effortlessly, with just over two tanks of fuel used up - eating 25% of the fuel intended for the stranded tug. But no matter - it should be enough. And from here, it's all driving. The target is a mere 14 kilometers away.

And only at that point did I remember to make a screenshot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, everything looks nice, and the rover reaches the tug fine... but here comes the first problem. And it's a derp.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Did you know that if you put two KAS winches with grappling hooks on the front of your rover, and your rover accidentally bumps into something - say, the ground - with its nose, it will stick in? Now you do.
It could have been resolved from that point, perhaps by dragging the tug over with its own winch and helping the rover down, but I just tried using the RCS to help it land the right way down, and then released the hooks - the physics freaked out and the rover pirouetted onto its roof, breaking off the RCS tanks. Welp. Reload.

The quicksave puts me back on the descent trajectory, so I do a better job of it this time - keeping the rover's engines on low thrust and essentially "gliding" towards the rocket instead of driving there.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ended up using up even more fuel though... no matter. It's barely a drive from here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Erbree is happy... but the cost of yet another broken solar panel is going to be docked from his pay.
The fuel transfer goes easily enough. Two side tanks are full, and two more are about half full - more than enough for a return trip. The rover extends its panels and goes into standby mode - it's probably not going to see much use until someone else goes back here. Maybe to give it a lift.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The blue pearl of Kerbin shines tantalizingly into the cockpit's side window. Time to go.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The return is simple enough, again. Some fiddling with the entry angle, and SpaceTug Two is on an aerobraking trajectory passing quite near the KSC. The soothing blackness of space soon starts to get pretty hot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With final bits of fuel, Erbree corrects the trajectory so that the aerobraking doesn't plunge him into the ocean - effectively rocket-skipping off the atmosphere for a little "hop" into space, and coming down again - safely over land.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Within an hour's drive from KSC, even. Now, as long as parachutes don't fail, everything should be just fine.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Um.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know, this could have been much worse. :P

Still, though. Disregarding the fact that a pusher stage was left in orbit, necessitating another SpaceTug mission, and a rover has been left on the Mun without any science equipment... success! ^_^

(And true to Kerbal nature, five minutes later Erbree gets himself killed trying to ride the winch hook up to get at the lander's ladder so he can get in and turn off the landing lights.

Yeah. >_>

Oh well.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 03, 2013, 09:56:08 am
He died in the end?!

Then it truly was a successful flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 08, 2013, 06:57:42 am
career mode? Science?
This'll be the update that makes me finally buy the full version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zrk2 on October 08, 2013, 11:45:50 am
I can now successfully impact the moon consistently. I'm getting better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 08, 2013, 12:22:28 pm
Quote from: Zrk2 on October 08, 2013, 11:45:50 am
I can now successfully impact the moon consistently. I'm getting better.
But can you do it with precision? Precision is important.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 08, 2013, 12:38:18 pm
The only planet I've ever gotten to is Duna. But I did it in such an inefficient brute-force way that I'm pretty sure I could get to any planet using the same method.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 08, 2013, 03:09:16 pm
http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/63470892950/new-milestone-reached-update-0-22-enters-experimental

Quote
Keep an eye on our Twitter and Facebook accounts to learn more about 0.22’s now impending release.

OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD

SOMEONE KEEP AN EYE ON THIS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 08, 2013, 03:10:10 pm
NOT IT!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 08, 2013, 03:33:55 pm
Dammit... Kay, I'm following them on twitter now...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on October 09, 2013, 08:23:28 pm
So I played KSP for a bit and enjoyed it a bit.
After reading this thread though I installed a second wave of mods, including the warp mod.

...Now KSP is eating my life. I blame this thread entirely for showing me that darned mod.

Anyhow, I did take a crack at a space station design.
Spoiler: Screenshot! (click to show/hide)
All the modules have large docking rings at either end, except for the tug and dock type converter at the end of the lab.
Using that design means I can keep adding modules ad-hoc until I'm satisfied that the station can do everything possible in the game, or my computer grinds to a painful halt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 09, 2013, 10:21:22 pm
Are you planning on adding a mass cannon?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 10, 2013, 02:38:39 pm
So... mods.

With the release of .22 looming now, I've decided to get the two mods I felt would complement my playstyle the most. Infernal Robotics and Kethane, added to the new version of KAS.

With those, I decided to make a small mining operation on the Mun.

My first Kethane scanner looks a bit like a small killsat, but gets the job done.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kethane deposits are swiftly located, and the first mining ship sets out for the Mun. Due to budget constraints, the first mining ship is a hastily retrofitted Space Tug Four, sporting a pair of drills and a number of kethane tanks, plus processing equipment to fuel the return.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The new ship is rather heavier than the tug, so the orbital insertion stage gets a very Kerbal upgrade.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jebediah is predictably ecstatic, and the trip to the Mun is fairly uneventful.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The landing in complete darkness, lit only by the landing lights, goes pretty smoothly, though it does take a few tries to land on a known patch of Kethane, and the surplus fuel is nonexistent. But what does that matter, we have Kethane! Right?

Er.

Turns out I somehow managed to install the Kethane drills the wrong side out. Whether or not that was the reason they refused to work is a mystery, but fact of the matter is that Jeb is now stranded on the Mun. Again.

Well, we shall not let something so trivial get in our way. The drill craft is updated, losing the extra side tanks and gaining a number of aft linear RCS ports to make better use of the tug's monopropellant supply.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bill is rather less thrilled by the boosted pusher stage, but it gets him to the Mun nevertheless. The changing angle of approach necessitates an additional burn to bring the inclination of the landing trajectory up so that the new craft can land near Jebediah and rescue him.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The problem Bill is about to face is rather hard to make out on that screenshot, but a somewhat trained eye may spot the impending disaster in this one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It took me a while to spot it as well. But it so happened that whatever amount of fuel was saved by not bringing extra empty tanks, was mercilessly eaten by a somewhat inefficient transfer, and that 100m/s inclination burn.

Bill is nearly exactly 100m/s of delta-V short of a landing.

Well... not much else to do here. Bill jumps out of the crash-bound spacecraft, and fires the jetpack thrusters for all they are worth. Turns out, they're worth quite a lot. After a quick brush with death in the form of the lip of a crater that briefly flashed past, close enough to be illuminated by the helmet lights, Bill comes to a long, skidding, tumbling stop on the crater's inner slope, some 20 kilometers away from Jeb's stranded craft. He's alive, but sans spacecraft.

It's now up to the third brother to finish the job, and perhaps get the first two home again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah. This'll be fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on October 10, 2013, 07:26:48 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 09, 2013, 10:21:22 pm
Are you planning on adding a mass cannon?
I wasn't. But maybe I should.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2013, 06:07:40 am
Keep it coming Sean, loving the story of disaster and exploration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 07:14:22 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2013, 06:07:40 am
Keep it coming Sean, loving the story of disaster and exploration.
It's now shaping up to be more exploration than disaster, thankfully.

So, Bob.

Spoiler: Look at how happy he is (click to show/hide)

That little purple blip you might notice in the crater is Jebediah and his ship. Initially Bob steered his mining ship towards him, but soon spotted a different blip.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bill is still sitting in that crater with nothing but his suit. Jeb can wait.
Bob was never a master of the precision landing though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

17 kilometers to Jeb, 5 and change to Bill. Eh. Good enough.
The drills are deployed, during which we find out that the tug really can't sustain a mining operation. Its four solar arrays, even in full light, don't even provide enough power to run a single drill. Not indefinitely at least. But there is enough power storage that leaving the drills running for an hour or two won't be a problem.

Let's return to Bill. Having spotted the approaching lander, he immediately takes to the sky and starts making his way to it. Maybe there's something useful left in the wreckage. Surely it couldn't have successfully landed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, it's still kind of a long trip, even five kilometers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pretty view from up here. Alright, almost there! I wonder how much fuel I got left?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...Crap.

Oh well. At least the lander is actually intact.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After a long and arduous journey on foot, Bill is finally at the lander. At which point yet another artifact of hasty retrofitting from a tug surfaces.

There is no longer anywhere to stand on after climbing up to the engine pods. And no new access ladder was installed.

Welp.

After an even longer, even more arduous journey, which involved smashing headfirst into one of the solar arrays, and getting Bob to raise the landing legs to make the hatch reachable via jumping...

Spoiler: Success! (click to show/hide)

Perfect. ...Except now the craft has even less power. *sigh*

A fairly large number of hours later, the craft is finally filled up, with fuel, monoprop, and Kethane all together. Time to rescue Jeb.

With fuel now being abundant, a more efficient "rocket up and straight down" approach is discarded in favor of the more entertaining "rocket hovercraft" method.

Spoiler: Efficiency be damned! (click to show/hide)

While the wasting of fuel is horrendous, you can't deny the results.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hi, Jebediah! Look what we got, a working mining ship! Now we can load up on fuel, and...

...

You know, a rescue mission only works when you have at least as many empty seats as you have people in need of rescue.
Or at least a way to refuel the craft of the other guy.

Welp.

Meet the Mun Supply Delivery Probe.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Yes, I managed a pinpoint-perfect landing right next to the other two craft. The probe having a great amount of fuel helped. The uneven mass distribution did not.)

So, what is the probe, then? The answer lies in the recent update to KAS. It has introduced Containers, and a set of new functions to regular old items. I shall explain soon.

Jebediah gets out of his craft and goes to check out the probe. He hauls the containers off to where they will be used.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First things first, he takes out two Pipe Connectors from one container, and links the two mining ships up.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Opening another container, he procures a set of replacement solar panels, and replaces Bob's ship's solar arrays that Bill so carelessly broke.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He then takes a command seat out of the third container and...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...sticks it on the probe. Because he's Jeb, and he's staying here.

Bill, on the other hand, has had a little too much adventure, and decides to leave on Jebediah's ship once it's properly refueled.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...he should probably be reminded of the meaning of the words "properly refueled".

Stay tuned for the next episode of the Kerman Brothers' Misadventures in Modded Space! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 11, 2013, 09:20:03 am
What is this mod that lets you install parts in the field?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 09:35:22 am
KAS, Kerbal Attachment System.

Used to be just winches and hooks and anchors, but now upgraded, with the developer of Kethane taking over the mod. You can now grab and attach any small part.

"Small part", includes batteries, RTGs, solar panels, pipes, struts, command seats, cubic strut trusses, RCS tanks, and rover wheels, among other things. This is... like, absolutely perfect for EVA activities. Resupply, repair... construction.

There is a game you're probably not aware of, called Moonbase Alpha. It's a free game by NASA.

With the new KAS, KSP is eerily similar to that. Sans timed precision welding puzzles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 11, 2013, 09:53:33 am
So, how much of a ship/rover could you build entirely through this 'small construction' then?  Are there any engines available?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 10:10:21 am
Oh god oh god oh god, that sounds far too good.

Damn you people and your awesome mods for awesome games! Gonna have to try it, but I'm waiting for 0.22.....

I actually have a rover that's stuck because he has no electricity to open the solar panels. All I'd need is to send one of those small solar panels that's already open.... aw man.

Let's just wait for 0.22..... Does anyone know how long stuff is usually in testing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 11, 2013, 10:27:53 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 09:35:22 am
There is a game you're probably not aware of, called Moonbase Alpha. It's a free game by NASA.

/me looks up Moonbase Alpha.
/me is greeted by a "Your government is utterly inept, so this website is down" page.
/me sighs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 11, 2013, 10:31:55 am
If you want a real look at the game, youtube "Moonbase Alpha provides a realistic simulation of life in space" or similar title.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 10:34:06 am
Or just, y'know, get it on Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 10:37:43 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 11, 2013, 09:53:33 am
So, how much of a ship/rover could you build entirely through this 'small construction' then?  Are there any engines available?
You can't carry around tanks, but with docking ports and decouplers it's not needed. If you want to kick an old fuel tank into motion, you can attach anything that's small and radially mountable - i.e. the radial Ants and 24-77's. You can attach a radial RCS tank, RCS blocks, a command seat, and some rover wheels. The spaceplane undercarriage seems to be too long to be carriable. Ditto for any landing legs.

Best part is, this applies to all of those parts. No need to actually pack them up or anything. So if your rocket crashed, and you have some radial engines, a fuel tank, and a command seat in the wreckage, you could totally MacGuyver yourself a little rocket and blast off.

There is no part editing going on, you can manually add anything you want to the list in the mod's config file if you want to experiment with something.

Oh, and you can radial-mount the radial-mounted parachutes. If you could have a command to deploy them on EVA, you could essentially have an EVA parachute pack.

Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 10:10:21 am
Oh god oh god oh god, that sounds far too good.

Damn you people and your awesome mods for awesome games! Gonna have to try it, but I'm waiting for 0.22.....

I actually have a rover that's stuck because he has no electricity to open the solar panels. All I'd need is to send one of those small solar panels that's already open.... aw man.

Let's just wait for 0.22..... Does anyone know how long stuff is usually in testing?
A few weeks to a month, I'd say. Depends on how many bugs the experimentals team finds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 11, 2013, 10:48:26 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 10:10:21 am
Oh god oh god oh god, that sounds far too good.

Damn you people and your awesome mods for awesome games! Gonna have to try it, but I'm waiting for 0.22.....

I actually have a rover that's stuck because he has no electricity to open the solar panels. All I'd need is to send one of those small solar panels that's already open.... aw man.

Let's just wait for 0.22..... Does anyone know how long stuff is usually in testing?

Kerbals can already manually deploy solar panels in EVA- you could send somebody to fix it now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 10:49:50 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 11, 2013, 10:48:26 am
Kerbals can already manually deploy solar panels in EVA- you could send somebody to fix it now.

Welp... somebody's not waiting for 0.22 after all......
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 11, 2013, 10:53:51 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 09:35:22 am
KAS, Kerbal Attachment System.

Used to be just winches and hooks and anchors, but now upgraded, with the developer of Kethane taking over the mod. You can now grab and attach any small part.

"Small part", includes batteries, RTGs, solar panels, pipes, struts, command seats, cubic strut trusses, RCS tanks, and rover wheels, among other things. This is... like, absolutely perfect for EVA activities. Resupply, repair... construction.

There is a game you're probably not aware of, called Moonbase Alpha. It's a free game by NASA.

With the new KAS, KSP is eerily similar to that. Sans timed precision welding puzzles.
What, it gives KSP text-to-voice? :P


aeiu aeiu john madden
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 11:01:12 am
Hmm. Addendum. It seems that there is some kind of prerequisite for the rocket assembly to work. Specifically, fuel does not seem to be correctly routed to newly attached engines. Will investigate further.

Still, the assembly itself is perfectly possible.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
e: um. Dropbox is being slow with this connection. May have to wait until all pics upload.

And this looks like it'd be a serious upgrade to the EVA jetpack.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: miauw62 on October 11, 2013, 10:53:51 am
What, it gives KSP text-to-voice? :P


aeiu aeiu john madden
Heh. I actually only ever played it single-player, so I've been spared the TTV abuse. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 11:14:33 am
You know you could make your own jetpacks or contraptoins a long time but it was more fieddeling with the files etc. kas always been my fav plugin. Its thanks to the modders that ksp has grown so big, not the devs... :) If you look closelsy they have" abssorbed" so many things that modders were first to do. Nice pics dude/girl
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 11, 2013, 11:34:38 am
Don't piss on the devs.
Just don't. They have done so much shit and they don't deserve some guy to say "lel the modders did all the work"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 11:44:11 am
If you hung out at the forums you know what i mean and i didnt take the piss on anyone of them, just saying what me and many others have thought. I still give them big props for comeing so long way but yeah, =)

cheers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 11:56:25 am
They didn't "absorb" a single thing. They recruited some modders, that much is true, but they didn't straight up reuse any mods.

The community doing things "first" simply means that the community can afford to do it. I've been on those forums long enough to know that most of the features I'm using right now, with mods, are already planned to be in the game. The devs just have priorities besides adding those features - they've a game to develop, and they have to keep the overall picture in mind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 12:19:44 pm
I'm honestly curious. What were some of those features? Had anyone done docking ports before they came out officially? 'cause that was the big game-changer for me. Also, the stock parts haven't changed that much, and the only mod I've used is Kethane to give me some goals to achieve, but I could easily have done it without Kethane.

They also did the airplanes, and and now they're coming out with science, which is going to give us the goals that weren't there before, and which is what I was looking for in Kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 12:34:44 pm
Yes, there were docking mods before docking was added. Subassemblies are being added as stock in .22. RCS was a modded "RCS array" module at first. Plus all the modders they recruited that added their content.

Kethane is great for goals and having some kind of self-sufficient long-term bases with rocket shuttles. KAS and Infernal Robotics add a whole lot of stuff you can do on missions. Extra rover and probe functionality, and EVA activities.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 12:51:39 pm
.22 is released after the stream today.
Are you ready for this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 11, 2013, 01:05:56 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 12:51:39 pm
.22 is released after the stream today.
Are you ready for this?

Wow, I wasn't expecting it for a week at least!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 01:06:54 pm
GOT TO GET HOME SO HARD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 01:14:34 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 01:06:54 pm
GOT TO GET HOME SO HARD
You have 4 hours.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 01:21:46 pm
That was a nice suprise from them =)

Yeah sean thats what i meant, those among other mods/plugin. No need to say that people are "pissing" on the devs when they just say what other gamers are thinking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 11, 2013, 01:29:18 pm
Quite simply said, there's no way a developer can hope to defeat the community, especially not in all things at once.

Especially if they've done so much to promote modding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 11, 2013, 01:48:01 pm
Ok, so question, when the new version drops (*Girly happy noise*) will mods need to be uninstalled?  And if so, is there an easy way to do that all at once?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 01:49:45 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 11, 2013, 01:48:01 pm
Ok, so question, when the new version drops (*Girly happy noise*) will mods need to be uninstalled?  And if so, is there an easy way to do that all at once?
Deleting your game files and re-downloading would work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 01:50:01 pm
There's a mod folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 11, 2013, 01:51:32 pm
Ah silly me, of course.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 02:02:13 pm
Also, apparently in KAS, this works too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Reentry isn't very feasible like this though, especially at steep angles. But at a shallow angle you could slow down enough for it to work. This was from a suborbital trajectory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 02:07:28 pm
Also.

Quote from: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 12:51:39 pm
.22 is released after the stream today.
Are you ready for this?

I assume you meant this?

Quote from: KSP Twitter
Kerbal Space Program ‏@KerbalSpaceP 1h

Warning! Today's episode of Squadcast will be immediately followed by the 0.22 @KSPTV marathon! http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/

In which case I don't think that means what you made everyone else here think it means.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 02:12:10 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 02:07:28 pm
Also.

Quote from: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 12:51:39 pm
.22 is released after the stream today.
Are you ready for this?

I assume you meant this?

Quote from: KSP Twitter
Kerbal Space Program ‏@KerbalSpaceP 1h

Warning! Today's episode of Squadcast will be immediately followed by the 0.22 @KSPTV marathon! http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/

In which case I don't think that means what you made everyone else here think it means.
...It doesn't?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2013, 02:17:37 pm
It means a marathon of .22 being streamed on KSP-TV, but it in no way says ".22 will be released afterwards".

Just because the .20 (or .18, I don't remember) marathon way back when ended with the release of the next version, it doesn't mean this one will. A possibility, but far from certainty or fact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 02:18:29 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 11, 2013, 02:15:01 pm
I think it means that KSPTV is doing a 0.22 marathon, as opposed to being released.
...whelp.
That sucks. My hopes were raised by an amount for a time.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to be misleading Sean, I just misread it due to optimism.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 02:28:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wanted to share an really old pic of a modpart i made using kas first version ^^ I think it was hmm. ksp 0.18 or 0.17

Well maybe weare lucky , otherwise we atleast get some new footage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 11, 2013, 02:35:36 pm
That's what I thought too when I read that. But, that does mean it will be out really soon, which is awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: guessingo on October 11, 2013, 04:26:25 pm
i am seeing alot of negative posts about this on steam. people seem unhappy with the progress in the game. have not bought it. anyone have any comments on this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 04:39:31 pm
I dunno, I feel like there's already enough fun to be had for a lifetime with current features. And these guys appear to be technically competent. Every new version that I've seen brings something fairly significant, especially lately. Plus there's a plethora of mods that you can already try, which make it even better.

Plus they have a really transparent development situation, where you can see what they've been up to every week. Overall, I would go for it.

In any case, you can go to http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Version_History and look at the big version changes, and when they were released, to get a fairly decent feel for how the game's been progressing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 04:40:18 pm
Do you like building rockets and sending them to other planets? Buy this game. Do you like building planes and flying them in atmosphere? Buy this game. Do you work for NASA and are bored during the shutdown? Buy this game. Buy this game? BUY THIS GAME.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 11, 2013, 04:41:49 pm
"Are you working at NASA and aren't currently making money? SPEND MONEY."

My first thought :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 04:45:48 pm
Hey now. When you spend a couple hundred bucks on a hammer your salary must be in the millions, right? RIGHT?! ... Well. At least you can always get a second job. Who doesn't want overworked sleepy astronauts in space?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 11, 2013, 04:56:26 pm
So I checked what happened since December 2012.

0.18, Dec. 2012: adds docking. KSP is now essentially KSP2.
0.19, Mar. 2013: wheels = rovers!
0.20, May. 2013: flags, MUCH needed upgrades to vehicle assembly
0.21, Jul. 2013: amazing SAS rework, better terrain, hiring astronauts, groundwork for campaign
0.22, ???. 2013: !!SCIENCE!!, KSP2 is now KSP3...

So in one year, you went from being able to send rockets to spess..... to being able to make orbital spess stations, making totally legit multi-ship missions, refuelling in spess, rovers for moving around on other planets much easier, etc etc.

Not to mention absolutely absurd mod support. Keeping things moddable is hella hard. These guys are keepin' it going, and the community is NOT disappointing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2013, 05:03:47 pm
Quote from: guessingo on October 11, 2013, 04:26:25 pm
i am seeing alot of negative posts about this on steam. people seem unhappy with the progress in the game. have not bought it. anyone have any comments on this?


...you looking at the right game? There was a controversy over Stardrive yesterday...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 05:13:07 pm
How to relax in space
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


"There was a controversy over Stardrive yesterday..."  Why ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2013, 05:13:56 pm
Multiplayer was promised, not in game, dev completely stopped developing after release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 05:16:23 pm
Oh.. Sad news.. Maybe he got a reason for it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2013, 05:23:00 pm
Oh, forgot: the discussion on Steam is being censored to remove all criticism.

EDIT: Also, last time they did an update KSPTV marathon, they released that update, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 06:09:09 pm
0.22 stream is NOW
http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv
1 hour only.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 11, 2013, 06:10:12 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 06:09:09 pm
0.22 stream is NOW
http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv
LOOK AT THE MORE BUILDINGS.
So many stuff ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 11, 2013, 06:26:57 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 11, 2013, 05:23:00 pm
Oh, forgot: the discussion on Steam is being censored to remove all criticism.

EDIT: Also, last time they did an update KSPTV marathon, they released that update, so...
They just talked on the stream about what is being shown will be an experimental build that is not quite ready, almost... so no release I assume  :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 11, 2013, 06:33:27 pm
Shock absorbing legs, yeah we allready have that :=) Sub-assembly manager, yeah we have had that for a time to. 

Maybe i missed it , have they shown anything from r&d?
Edit oh they are showing it now. Kool, we are going to be able to take samples in eva to. Neato..
The chat was crazy, haha so many fun comments.

"

feelswarrior: well that was underwhelming

"
Wanted to se more from the rn d department
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 07:02:26 pm
Now it's all testers with advance unstable pre-.22 official release versions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 11, 2013, 07:26:20 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 11, 2013, 07:02:26 pm
Now it's all testers with advance unstable pre-.22 official release versions.
The build just wants the rockets to not feel so bad about their own instability.

KSP test builds, crash the game while you crash your rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2013, 03:55:09 am
Subassembly looks awesome!

Shock-absorbing legs will make my Roller able to crash land at 60m/s!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 12, 2013, 05:27:25 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39650-0-21-Shock-absorbing-landing-legs-V1-2-%2805-09-2013%29
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 06:28:00 am
Yes, we know some dude thought of it first. All major features were probably added before the devs got to it, but in most cases the dev version was better.

What's your point actually? That the devs should stop developing any feature that any modder has made an attempt at doing? That they should remove modding options so that they can keep ahead of modders?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eclectic Wizard on October 12, 2013, 06:36:27 am
I hope its not going to be like with minecraft where they just implement half arsed versions of whatever mod caught their eye, like the horses, wheres my alligators and lions and stuff?

Really.

Also someone should steal KAS and update it for .22
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2013, 06:50:25 am
Quote from: Eclectic Wizard on October 12, 2013, 06:36:27 am
I hope its not going to be like with minecraft where they just implement half arsed versions of whatever mod caught their eye, like the horses, wheres my alligators and lions and stuff?

Really.

Also someone should steal KAS and update it for .22
The KAS dev said his top priority is preparing for .22 so it shouldn't take too long
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2013, 07:14:58 am
So I've been thinking about how asparagus might sometimes not be the most efficient, that sometimes not adding engines to the drop tanks will save weight.

My experiment involved a craft with 2 drop tanks. With engines it went to 837km height, but without the extra engines it went to 1.100km height.

Some of this may be due to increased drag from overthrusting, but it does save a lot of weight not having extra engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 12, 2013, 07:17:30 am
Yeah kas is in good hands, i think one of the devs for kethane are going to take over later on so kas will stay :) Hahaha   Eclectic Wizard i  agree (Y)   .
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2013, 07:17:47 am
Quote from: ank on October 12, 2013, 07:14:58 am
So I've been thinking about how asparagus might sometimes not be the most efficient, that sometimes not adding engines to the drop tanks will save weight.

My experiment involved a craft with 2 drop tanks. With engines it went to 837km height, but without the extra engines it went to 1.100km height.

Some of this may be due to increased drag from overthrusting, but it does save a lot of weight not having extra engines.
Any time you are thrusting greater than terminal velocity you are wasting energy. Try it again but limit your speed to 200ish m/s until you get above like 30-40km. Or use mechjeb to do real repeatable testing and remove human error. It can limit thrust to terminal velocity for you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2013, 07:54:54 am
What I am currently wondering is, how different is asparagus staging to rocket-propelled drop tanks?

I.e, in a simple setup like I use, where there are only 2 boosters asparagus linked to the center stack, the proportion of fuel that the center stack draws from the boosters' reserves, assuming they are all fired simultaneously, is quite constant.

Will it matter significantly if the boosters simply contain an extra tank for the center stack, separated from the boosters' own? I'm thinking real-life applications here mostly, because it doesn't really matter in KSP, and introducing decouplers to separate the tanks would degrade performance. In real life though, the separate-tank approach is mechanically and logistically simpler.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 08:08:11 am
It will barely have an effect, as the amount of fuel used is easily predicted. Besides, most fuel tanks are dumped before they're completely empty, because of inconsistent burns between the individual boosters, and propellant pressure loss.

Though well, the main problem with these type of designs is a possible fuel leak, because the tubes aren't as strong as they're in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2013, 08:19:36 am
The Shuttle has a drop tank, which seems to have worked well.

The only different thing is segmenting the tank into two calculated halves and putting a rocket engine on the underside to make use of one. A "rocket propelled drop tank", as I've come to call the thing that powered my Celestia's Guidance (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSP_182_Screens/screenshot5.png) mothership series.

Essentially, the booster both gives the rocket its lifting power, and carries enough fuel for the main engine to last for the duration of the booster's burn. It's a concept that requires much less complexity than real fuel crossfeed, even though it requires boosters custom-made for every given lifter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 08:31:06 am
The shuttle's drop tank was expensive, unbalanced the craft and led to the destruction of spaceshuttle Columbia*. It might have been the isolation material, but that reveals another interesting point why droptanks aren't used often.

Solid fuel is preferred for side boosters, because while it has lower thrust/weight, it is much more stable and easier to handle. Liquid fuel needs to be filled, cooled, pressurized and stabilized, hugely complicating a launch*. This is the primary reason that the proposed Ariane 6 would have an all solid fuel bottom stage, and a small liquid fuel orbital stage.

Taking a meaningful amount of fuel with you in that tank requires delaying the tank separation, making recovery of the boosters harder, thereby increasing costs.

So while splitting up the tanks might be a good idea, the Aspergus itself might not be.

*Double that if you make your sideboosters of 2 separate tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 12, 2013, 09:10:41 am
When is it good to have asparagus staging with rockets:
When your vessel is so heavy that thrusting through the dense lower atmosphere and tighter gravity is more difficult, and you need a lot of raw power to simply push through the air and then drop the extra engines when you get to upper atmosphere, because the air is thinner and you can make do with smaller thrust.

When is it good to have simple drop tanks without rockets:
When your vessel is light enough that a single engine has a >1.0 TWR, and can be lifted effectively with the smaller thrust, in which case it will only get a higher TWR as it continues to burn and shed empty tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 12, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy
So there's that.
The other thing you need to worry about with liquid props is sloshing. One of the early tests of the Falcon 1 rockets failed when the propellant started sloshing around in the tanks, causing a steadily worsening harmonic motion that ended up causing an abort. In the most recent Falcon 9 flight, they tested their ability to land the used stage 1 rocket safely. It nearly worked, but the low remaining propellant was centrifuged along the outside of the container, preventing proper thrusting. All these are solvable (the first was fixed, and the second is probably fixed by now), but they do require additional testing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2013, 12:37:05 pm
Quote from: alway on October 12, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy
So there's that.
The other thing you need to worry about with liquid props is sloshing. One of the early tests of the Falcon 1 rockets failed when the propellant started sloshing around in the tanks, causing a steadily worsening harmonic motion that ended up causing an abort. In the most recent Falcon 9 flight, they tested their ability to land the used stage 1 rocket safely. It nearly worked, but the low remaining propellant was centrifuged along the outside of the container, preventing proper thrusting. All these are solvable (the first was fixed, and the second is probably fixed by now), but they do require additional testing.
Good thing we don't have to worry about that in KSP...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2013, 01:38:28 pm
God dammit I want .22 so bad right now!
GIVE EET!
NOAW!
FOR !!SCIENCE!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2013, 01:44:13 pm
Sorry, it appears you have to be a socially inept person to be a tester (judging by the streams). Do you talk to Yoda?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 12, 2013, 01:58:04 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2013, 01:44:13 pm
Sorry, it appears you have to be a socially inept person to be a tester (judging by the streams). Do you talk to Yoda?

They are looking for more streamers, so I'd say give it a shot if you think you are better than the current ones.
Oh, and they aren't testers, they are streamers. Testers test stuff before the streamers get their hands on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 12, 2013, 03:56:58 pm
The streamers effectively can't give bug reports.  Squad has testers, streamers, and customers.  Testers stumble on bugs.  Customers shouldn't deal with bugs.  Streamers get told "gtfo" if they report a bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 04:00:16 pm
Quote from: alway on October 12, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy
So there's that.
The other thing you need to worry about with liquid props is sloshing. One of the early tests of the Falcon 1 rockets failed when the propellant started sloshing around in the tanks, causing a steadily worsening harmonic motion that ended up causing an abort. In the most recent Falcon 9 flight, they tested their ability to land the used stage 1 rocket safely. It nearly worked, but the low remaining propellant was centrifuged along the outside of the container, preventing proper thrusting. All these are solvable (the first was fixed, and the second is probably fixed by now), but they do require additional testing.
And that's about the only rocket system that tried that, from what I know off. Additionally, it's pretty unique in it's payload capacity too. Simply said, it's not efficient to do aspergus in real life save for gigantic rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2013, 04:14:20 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 04:00:16 pm
Quote from: alway on October 12, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy
So there's that.
The other thing you need to worry about with liquid props is sloshing. One of the early tests of the Falcon 1 rockets failed when the propellant started sloshing around in the tanks, causing a steadily worsening harmonic motion that ended up causing an abort. In the most recent Falcon 9 flight, they tested their ability to land the used stage 1 rocket safely. It nearly worked, but the low remaining propellant was centrifuged along the outside of the container, preventing proper thrusting. All these are solvable (the first was fixed, and the second is probably fixed by now), but they do require additional testing.
And that's about the only rocket system that tried that, from what I know off. Additionally, it's pretty unique in it's payload capacity too. Simply said, it's not efficient to do aspergus in real life save for gigantic rockets.
Not cost-efficient or not complexity-efficient? Because the principle of the asparagus staging is perfectly valid and very effective. You're basically taking a rocket that can already fly by itself, and then you're giving it extra fuel, but sidestep the rocket equation by also giving it engines that will carry that extra fuel until it runs out - at which point you're left with the same rocket that can fly by itself, but it is already some few dozen kilometers off the ground and going at a decent clip.

Also, the Falcon Heavy isn't merely the "only" rocket system that tried that.

It's the "first".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 12, 2013, 06:14:59 pm
Yeah, it adds a bunch of systems complexity, which prior to fully automated, error-tolerant nav systems like SpaceX uses, would have been practically impossible. Typically, you also would reduce plumbing complexity to a bare minimum, since that's one of the single biggest fault locations for a rocket. If an engine goes out, or a rocket is lost, it's pretty much always because of some issue with the plumbing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-1_rocket#Problems
Quote
Complex plumbing was needed to feed fuel and oxidizer into the clustered arrangement of rocket engines. This proved to be extremely fragile, and was a major factor in the design's launch failures

Doing crossfeed also increases the number of engines firing at any given stage. Which means you will have more engines fail. SpaceX nav AI has experimentally verified its ability to fly well after losing an engine (it lost one during a trip to the ISS) and can theoretically fly to its target trajectory even when it loses nearly half its engines, at which point physics says no. But it also increases the chances of engine failure specifically for the later stage engines: they are now firing for multiple stages; for a much longer sum of time. Or in short, you simply couldn't do crossfeed up until... now, really. You needed the vast advances in both materials science and computing before systems would become tolerant enough to do so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 12, 2013, 08:13:45 pm
Whenever I crossfeed multiple engines, I end up with one tank that drains quicker than the rest and predictable results from there unless I manually stop and start the fuel from that tank.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2013, 08:15:24 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 12, 2013, 08:13:45 pm
Whenever I crossfeed multiple engines, I end up with one tank that drains quicker than the rest and predictable results from there unless I manually stop and start the fuel from that tank.
Use TAC fuel balancer. You can set which tanks to keep full and which to balance out or draw from. Its useful for drop tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 12:44:49 am
Just 'landed' my fuel depot on Jool. It hangs in the atmosphere via 4 large balloons while processing the hydrogen in the atmosphere for fuel then rockets back into orbit to deliver the fuel to ships. I'll probably end up setting up a base around one of the moons.

It also has a science module generating science to upgrade some parts later on.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 02:50:25 am
As I said before, KSPTV is looking for more streamers, to apply follow this link:
http://bit.ly/KSPTVApp

I would love someone from B12 to show them how it's done!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 13, 2013, 03:18:01 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2013, 04:14:20 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 12, 2013, 04:00:16 pm
Quote from: alway on October 12, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy
So there's that.
The other thing you need to worry about with liquid props is sloshing. One of the early tests of the Falcon 1 rockets failed when the propellant started sloshing around in the tanks, causing a steadily worsening harmonic motion that ended up causing an abort. In the most recent Falcon 9 flight, they tested their ability to land the used stage 1 rocket safely. It nearly worked, but the low remaining propellant was centrifuged along the outside of the container, preventing proper thrusting. All these are solvable (the first was fixed, and the second is probably fixed by now), but they do require additional testing.
And that's about the only rocket system that tried that, from what I know off. Additionally, it's pretty unique in it's payload capacity too. Simply said, it's not efficient to do aspergus in real life save for gigantic rockets.
Not cost-efficient or not complexity-efficient? Because the principle of the asparagus staging is perfectly valid and very effective. You're basically taking a rocket that can already fly by itself, and then you're giving it extra fuel, but sidestep the rocket equation by also giving it engines that will carry that extra fuel until it runs out - at which point you're left with the same rocket that can fly by itself, but it is already some few dozen kilometers off the ground and going at a decent clip.

Also, the Falcon Heavy isn't merely the "only" rocket system that tried that.

It's the "first".
Neither cost nor complexity efficient at the moment, for anything smaller than the Falcon Heavy. Point is, in order to the crossfeed to work you need to use liquid fuel boosters, which are significantly harder and more expensive to handle than solid ones, hence not worth the effort for any smaller craft (Also, liquid fuel has a higher failure rate).

Additionally, in order to make the crossfeed worth the effort, you need to delay the separation of the sideboosters. Meaning that you have to use alternate systems to get the booster to land safely and be reuseable.

People have thought of it before. The N-1 had fuel crossfeeding, and was a massive failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 04:04:13 am
SpaceX are kind of pioneering the "alternate systems" for landing liquid fuel boosters specifically, so I guess them using the crossfeed as well makes sense. I lack the general knowledge required to have a say on how complexity scales with size, but isn't "Asparagus staging" innately an easily scalable system? I.e. once you have a rocket system that can work with it, changing payload size is a matter of changing booster size.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 13, 2013, 04:12:23 am
Not really. There's a fairly high lower limit on when asparagus staging becomes inefficient. Not because of the system itself, but because of the fact that you're using liquid fuel boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 13, 2013, 09:25:03 am
Quote from: ank on October 13, 2013, 02:50:25 am
As I said before, KSPTV is looking for more streamers, to apply follow this link:
http://bit.ly/KSPTVApp

I would love someone from B12 to show them how it's done!

I've been watching the streams pretty heavily to distract me from building something big that I'm gonna ditch once 0.22 comes along... and the streams are mostly boring. Changing a couple of parts on a rocket that failed and launching it again takes the streamers anywhere from 5 to 10m...  it could/should be done in literally 30s. But they talk and talk and talk and talk, saying very little. It gets infuriating :( I just wanted to see how people play KSP and how they have fun, execute manoeuvres, etc.

TL;DR someone from here please apply for streaming, current streamers make everything at least 10x as long as they're supposed to be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 13, 2013, 09:49:20 am
Quote
The KSPTV marathon may be over, but if I were you I'd keep an eye on your favorite KSP Youtubers today...
Cryptic...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 10:20:43 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 13, 2013, 09:49:20 am
Quote
The KSPTV marathon may be over, but if I were you I'd keep an eye on your favorite KSP Youtubers today...
Cryptic...
It's probably the "win a free copy of KSP" thing. There's three clues and three links to follow, and they pop up randomly in videos of people streaming .22.

In other news... this mod.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know you're on to something good when you're packing two nuclear reactors and four solar arrays, and it's still only enough to keep you at half thrust.

I think I'm going to go make a Tylo mission lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 10:26:58 am
Which mod is that? KSP Interstellar has nuke reactors with outputs in the MW/GW/sec range (1000 electric charge = 1MW) and could solve your charge issues. Though they are quite heavy.

It has antimatter reactors too... but antimatter is very time and energy intensive to collect/generate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 13, 2013, 10:40:36 am
The "win free ksp" thing ended last night I think. Already gave out the 5 copies for that clue based thing, but there might be more.

There was a possible hint from a streamer earlier on friday. He said something along the lines of "I can guarantee that .22 won't be released before Sunday."

They've honestly been pumping pretty hard at bug fixing, even over the weekend. The streamers were getting new versions almost every couple of hours. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw it today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 10:55:56 am
I think they are working pretty hard too, it would be such a kick in the balls, if it took a week after the super-hype-stream for it to be released.

This is the patch that finally brings KSP up to what could be considered v1, since all main features are finally in the game(sans budget).

What are peoples thoughts on gaming the science feature? will you EVA you kerbin in the first flight and just do ground science to unlock the parts before flying, or will you just make scientific readings that makes sense?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 10:57:51 am
Quote from: ank on October 13, 2013, 10:55:56 am
I think they are working pretty hard too, it would be such a kick in the balls, if it took a week after the super-hype-stream for it to be released.

This is the patch that finally brings KSP up to what could be considered v1, since all main features are finally in the game(sans budget).

What are peoples thoughts on gaming the science feature? will you EVA you kerbin in the first flight and just do ground science to unlock the parts before flying, or will you just make scientific readings that makes sense?
Depending on what's unlocked first I'm planning to send recon teams to various sites on kerbin first for 'training'. then use the science from that to unlock better parts for further missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 13, 2013, 11:16:10 am
One of the stream-people said to expect a 2-week delay from the time of stream, at least.  So another 11-ish days or whatever.

My goal is to bring back all science, none of this "only gain 20% because you radio'd it in".  Sending teams around Kerbin and Low Kerbin Orbit first to gather enough science to make it to Mun and back.  Then head out to Minmus and probably deploy a rover able to go around different locations and collect data.

Yes, different locations have different data.  One of the streamers found that "the large crater on the dark side of Mun" was a specific place that gathered specific data, unique from other parts of Mun.  So making a flyby intercept and doing science at different points can get you a lot more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 11:20:36 am
I'm wondering...

If I send a rover to the mun first and transmit back data, will I then have 'used up' the data in that area such that an EVA would be useless? Or will EVA data be different?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 13, 2013, 11:34:20 am
It might reduce it, owing to overlap in the system, but I don't think it will remove it entirely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 11:39:46 am
Quote from: alway on October 13, 2013, 11:34:20 am
It might reduce it, owing to overlap in the system, but I don't think it will remove it entirely.
I'm really hoping rover and EVA science are separate somehow, else you're actually being penalized for using a rover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 11:49:41 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 10:26:58 am
Which mod is that? KSP Interstellar has nuke reactors with outputs in the MW/GW/sec range (1000 electric charge = 1MW) and could solve your charge issues. Though they are quite heavy.

It has antimatter reactors too... but antimatter is very time and energy intensive to collect/generate.
The mod is the Near Future Propulsion Pack, which suits me far better than KSP Interstellar. An in-system warp drive, no matter how hard to set up, kinda breaks the sense of achievement in exploration.

VASIMRs and MPDs are more interesting. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on October 13, 2013, 11:50:06 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 11:39:46 am
Quote from: alway on October 13, 2013, 11:34:20 am
It might reduce it, owing to overlap in the system, but I don't think it will remove it entirely.
I'm really hoping rover and EVA science are separate somehow, else you're actually being penalized for using a rover.

Or that you can transfer science points from one unit to another.  That way you can do a landing, bring a rover to explore nearby biomes, then put the science points back in the lander and haul it home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 11:51:02 am
You are assuming that sending back data will reduce the science value of the next mission by the same amount as bringing it back. Likely, if you send it back at 20%, you will likely only loose 20% "novelty"... that's how I'd do it at least.

There is also a lot of places you can't come back from (or come back with limited parts), so sending a probe there seems optimal.


Also, when Forsaken said rover, I think he meant unmanned mission?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 12:07:03 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 11:49:41 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 10:26:58 am
Which mod is that? KSP Interstellar has nuke reactors with outputs in the MW/GW/sec range (1000 electric charge = 1MW) and could solve your charge issues. Though they are quite heavy.

It has antimatter reactors too... but antimatter is very time and energy intensive to collect/generate.
The mod is the Near Future Propulsion Pack, which suits me far better than KSP Interstellar. An in-system warp drive, no matter how hard to set up, kinda breaks the sense of achievement in exploration.

VASIMRs and MPDs are more interesting. ^_^
I haven't actually used the FTL drive in that mod. I'm more interested in the science/upgrade system and the realistic reactors. It also has an internal fusion drive which changes ISP depending on the throttle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 13, 2013, 12:32:23 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 11:20:36 am
I'm wondering...

If I send a rover to the mun first and transmit back data, will I then have 'used up' the data in that area such that an EVA would be useless? Or will EVA data be different?
It seems that there's a number of different sources of science - crew pods, EVA reports, soil/water samples, goo pods, and in-line science chambers (the ones I saw displayed) and each of these are unique.  Thus the minimum to get a 'decent' sample would be a manned mission with a goo and science.  Each of these appears to stack separately, and when you get plenty of goo readings while on Mun you still have no idea what the soil sample is like.

Transmitting data back via radio gives a lower science reward - you can only transmit so much knowledge on a rock sample before the scientists at home need to run more advanced tests in a lab, so you only get like 20% of the science for describing the shape, size, density, scratch test, etc.  If you get it back and recover, then scientists can do tests on the chemical composition and formation and all the more detailed tests, giving you 100% science recovery.  Crew reports, on the other hand, sound the same in person as on a record tape, "It's dark cold no air."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 13, 2013, 12:44:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 11:49:41 am
The mod is the Near Future Propulsion Pack, which suits me far better than KSP Interstellar. An in-system warp drive, no matter how hard to set up, kinda breaks the sense of achievement in exploration.

VASIMRs and MPDs are more interesting. ^_^

Oh man, I've been looking for a mod like that for a long time! Thanks!

Finally, polished, nice-looking reactors for my spaceships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 12:49:49 pm
The system is pretty realistic in that probe missions are much easier(and don't need to come back), while netting way less science than an actual manned mission would, just like real life.

And do TONS of crew reports, and send it back home!

I am kinda getting my nerve up to casting my first 2 hours with the new version, to see if it's really that easy.
Do you guys think that a web-cam is a must? or does it just take up space from the beautiful explosions rockets?

I agree that they are waaaaaaay slow, I find myself manually timewarping the video for them...
Also, I have yet to see any of them making a straight burn to orbit, come on! This isn't is rocket science!



I wonder if you can load all the science you have into a probe heading back to Kerbin while the ships flies on?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 13, 2013, 12:52:48 pm
Well, not really. Crewed missions don't need to come back either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 13, 2013, 12:53:29 pm
Streaming is more about acting than it is about gameplay.  Your ability to talk and keep an audience.  I personally don't like the webcam boxes people put on streams, kinda boring to just watch them watch a screen for 2 hours...

Sending science back manually will be a great way to transfer things, this has been all but confirmed.  Sending a large science vessel, then sending a small probe to fetch and retrieve the science is going to be very valid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 12:56:39 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 13, 2013, 12:52:48 pm
Well, not really. Crewed missions don't need to come back either.

They need to come back to harvest all the juicy science!

Also, Kerbal graveyard! It actually records the Kerbals you've killed, so finally a reason to take more care a the little buggers.
Probes though...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 01:06:00 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 13, 2013, 12:44:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 11:49:41 am
The mod is the Near Future Propulsion Pack, which suits me far better than KSP Interstellar. An in-system warp drive, no matter how hard to set up, kinda breaks the sense of achievement in exploration.

VASIMRs and MPDs are more interesting. ^_^

Oh man, I've been looking for a mod like that for a long time! Thanks!

Finally, polished, nice-looking reactors for my spaceships.
It also just updated, apparently. Added 3 new high-density solar panels, and 3 new high-capacity stack batteries to ease on the part counts.

The best thing in that mod, in my opinion, is how well it blends in with the stock look.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 13, 2013, 01:19:56 pm
There's a couple mods that are going to go really well with .22's science system, and the Near Future pack and Kethane are both going to be really important. Same with Kerbal Attachment System, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 13, 2013, 02:36:20 pm
My science plan is:
1. Orbital satellite or three over Kerbin.
2. Manned landings of rovers on Kerbin, with abuse of the recover button, and being upgraded with every new part unlocked.
3. Orbit satellite or five over Mun.
4. Probe on Mun.
Since I haven't ever reached 4 before, I don't have a five. But the sky isn't the limit.

Also, ank. Ask yourself this: Does the webcam add anything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 02:40:32 pm
You will not have probes when the game starts(also, no batteries, or solars), so satellites right off the bat is impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 13, 2013, 02:58:01 pm
Really? Damn. Hope they give us parachutes.

Wait, we cant use batteries, then are rovers even viable?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 13, 2013, 03:01:07 pm
Tech progression roughly goes in development progression.  You start off with little tanks, engines, and I think the smallest SRB.  Later on you get wings, struts, probes, solar panels, and rover wheels, roughly in that order.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 13, 2013, 03:08:35 pm
Think Sputnik for your first satellite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 13, 2013, 03:10:31 pm
You can do science on Kerbin. Not much, but you can do something within the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 13, 2013, 03:21:28 pm
Finaly having the feeling you accomplish sometyhing, sense of progression, test subject kerbalnaut tracking and other stuff, MAN this game will be INCREDIBLE when theyll be done with it, wish i could have a glimpse of the futur just to see how big that game will end up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 13, 2013, 03:25:39 pm
Dwarf Fortress and Kerbal Space Program, two games that I would love to go 20 years into the future and see how they've developed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 13, 2013, 03:31:14 pm
I see a definite anti-webcam sentiment, which i like.

I think I will try to mimic the early NASA flight:
1. Suborbital
2. orbital
3. rendezvous with 2 crafts, and orbital high-five!
4. whatever, lets just go to the mun!
( I think it was a space station next, but I can't remember, will have to do some research)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 13, 2013, 03:40:20 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA)

1. Suborbital, in the X-15 rocket plane.
2. Orbital, in Project Mercury.
3. Docking, in Project Gemini.
4. Moon, in Project Apollo.
5. Space station, in Skylab.
6. Space shuttles.
7. ISS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2013, 04:05:36 pm
The sampling of mods continues.

This looks like someone doesn't like the next country over. Or the next planet over.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's really a giant nuclear missile.

The procedural fairings are pretty neat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Near Future Propulsion Pack, of course, is still awesome. I'm running out of monoprop faster than fuel! D:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 13, 2013, 04:11:43 pm
If you're running out of monoprop, but not fuel, try adding maneuvering engines. Take a bunch of engines, strap em on in such a way as to induce rotation, then bind em each to an action group. I've never actually tried this, so it would be interesting to see how it turned out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2013, 04:15:39 pm
Quote from: alway on October 13, 2013, 04:11:43 pm
If you're running out of monoprop, but not fuel, try adding maneuvering engines. Take a bunch of engines, strap em on in such a way as to induce rotation, then bind em each to an action group. I've never actually tried this, so it would be interesting to see how it turned out.
It would be better if we could bind any key to groups, and have groups activate and deactivate on keydown/keyup. That way you could have engines bound to WASD which induced rotation and then just press and hold to activate while throttled up then release to deactivate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 13, 2013, 04:57:33 pm
Apparently, when you are warping time and try to board your craft, your Kerbals die in an explosion of dust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 13, 2013, 04:58:36 pm
Time warp is used for explosions.  If anything is ever moving during time warp, it's going to explode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 13, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
Good to know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 14, 2013, 02:05:09 am
Somebody on the stream said that you could land on the moon with only starter parts.... challenge accepted!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 02:31:05 am
Of course you could. People have landed on the Mun with just SRBs.

As long as you are able to use that staging mechanism, you can still pretty much go anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 14, 2013, 03:03:08 am
Yeah.... but remember you have NO control! No extra SAS, no wings, no RCS, no gimbals! And using the onboard SAS costs power, which SRBs does not produce.

Anyway, I got into orbit with the starter parts in this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The extra pods are for control.


Burning off SRBs

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SPAAAACE!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Orbit!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 05:00:53 am
You're overcomplicating if all you want is an orbit.

Remember, in rocketry less is more.

Meet the dongrocket:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Losing most SRBs immediately after blastoff (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lazy gravity turn (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Circularizing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Plotting gentle return (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Can't see a thing out here... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wait, what's that? (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ..ooh. Pretty. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Getting lightly done (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Chute out (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bit of a powered descent (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Touchdown! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: And mission accomplished. (click to show/hide)

So it's a lot easier than you think - at least if you've already played the game for a while. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 14, 2013, 06:08:47 am
I was going for the Mun but kinda undershot it.

Got a craft now that falls over lands on the mun, but not enough fuel to get home.

Got a redesign in mind, that will finally get me to the mun and back.... I hope


Also I tried to land mine on Kerbin but I landed over a mountain, which made the parachute never deploy....


So, join me in my quest for a Mun return mission with only starter parts!

EDIT: I think i've hit a snag, since the SCR burning decoupler trick does not work in low atmosphere, so you are very limited. remember, you need to bring about 1500 Delta-v into orbit to get to the moon and back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 14, 2013, 09:59:46 am
I made a Mun kethane mining station, a  Mun kethane conversion orbital station, and a mun kethane skycrane... and now the large docking ports don't connect. Any ideas why that is? I can post screenies later.

The skycrane has wide landing legs, so that the mining station/rover can get under there, and is really close to the docking port. But then it simply doesn't connect, not even when I blast a little off the ground, they are perfectly aligned and target set. Anyone know if it's a problem with the large docking ports?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 14, 2013, 10:02:47 am
Would need to see pics. Docking ports could be the wrong way round or something. This is why you test stuff like that on kerbin before launching them to the mun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 10:51:33 am
The large docking ports are flat, and therefore especially prone to being connected "wrong side out". Or, in worse cases, "wrong node in", since you can accidentally stack them into their top node.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 14, 2013, 11:05:09 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 10:51:33 am
The large docking ports are flat, and therefore especially prone to being connected "wrong side out". Or, in worse cases, "wrong node in", since you can accidentally stack them into their top node.

I feel this is probably what happened :(

http://steamcommunity.com/id/anvilfolk/screenshots/ <- they're last 4 screenshots.

I can't seem to (un)set target on the desired docking port, so that's probably what happened. This sucks :( Gonna have to get a rescue mission and then another skycrane to the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 11:39:03 am
"Set target" is absolutely not needed for docking. Any two ports close enough to each other will dock.

The ports also seem to be facing the right way, so there is no problem there either.

The problem is the mass of the vessels. The ports may align, but are not close enough for their magnetic force to budge the mass of the lander or the crane, especially on the surface. Ground operations with docking ports, even in Mun gravity conditions, require the ports to be practically rammed into each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 14, 2013, 11:40:45 am
Unless with boats. But who wants to go .7 m/s?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 14, 2013, 12:38:48 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 14, 2013, 11:39:03 am
The problem is the mass of the vessels. The ports may align, but are not close enough for their magnetic force to budge the mass of the lander or the crane, especially on the surface. Ground operations with docking ports, even in Mun gravity conditions, require the ports to be practically rammed into each other.

At the risk of sounding kinky, I've done plenty of that... I've even undeployed landing gear and unceremoniously dropped onto the rover :\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 05:59:35 pm
I've done it.  My first successful Mun landing!  And I didn't use autopilot for any of it!  *I did still use mechjeb for my fancy custom info window though*

(http://img.ie/images/0a9fr_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/0a9fr.png.html)

I am so happy, and so is he!  The rocket didn't even tip over!  He could even feasibly re-launch, connect to my orbiting fuel tank and big engine and make it back alive!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 14, 2013, 06:42:20 pm
Gratz!

KSP is one of those games that makes you WORK for your objectives. And when you finally get there... dayum, ain't no feelin' so fine!

Now get'er back to Kerbin!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
I hit the gas pedal too hard taking off and now I am the proud owner of a manned "space station" in solar orbit.  Totally didn't expect to break gravity that fast.

When the press asks I'll just say that solar orbit was the plan all along.

(It's just as well because it seems I forgot parachutes on both the lander and the engine)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 14, 2013, 06:52:24 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
I hit the gas pedal too hard taking off and now I am the proud owner of a manned "space station" in solar orbit.

When the press asks I'll just say that that was the plan all along.

(It's just as well because it seems I forgot parachutes on both the lander and the engine)
Send a rescue mission! Grab KAS and slap some parachutes on the side, refuel it with a pipe, then off you go home!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 14, 2013, 06:53:35 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 14, 2013, 06:52:24 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
I hit the gas pedal too hard taking off and now I am the proud owner of a manned "space station" in solar orbit.

When the press asks I'll just say that that was the plan all along.

(It's just as well because it seems I forgot parachutes on both the lander and the engine)
Send a rescue mission! Grab KAS and slap some parachutes on the side, refuel it with a pipe, then off you go home!
Or just take the kerbals home. The ship looks pretty disposable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 07:00:16 pm
The engine actually already had a KAS winch on it just in case I flubbed the docking, though I had also forgotten to actually attach anything to that winch.  Didn't matter much though because even though the engine had an AI on it, the engine didn't have a prayer of getting anywhere near the wayward lander and having any fuel left, so I sent it back home (which is where I noticed I forgot parachutes and bombed some innocent wilderness creatures).

I will plan a rescue mission.   I was kinda partial to Jebdo.  He flies all my spaceplanes, once I'm reasonably certain they are not deathtraps.  And he won't come back like the others do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2013, 02:43:06 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 14, 2013, 06:53:35 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 14, 2013, 06:52:24 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 14, 2013, 06:49:25 pm
I hit the gas pedal too hard taking off and now I am the proud owner of a manned "space station" in solar orbit.

When the press asks I'll just say that that was the plan all along.

(It's just as well because it seems I forgot parachutes on both the lander and the engine)
Send a rescue mission! Grab KAS and slap some parachutes on the side, refuel it with a pipe, then off you go home!
Or just take the kerbals home. The ship looks pretty disposable.
We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 15, 2013, 08:27:34 am
Finally gave in and bought the full version, I'm hoping to finally learn how to do orbital transfers and actually land somewhere before .22 comes out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:33:07 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on October 15, 2013, 08:27:34 am
Finally gave in and bought the full version, I'm hoping to finally learn how to do orbital transfers and actually land somewhere before .22 comes out.
I might suggest getting Mechjeb 2.0 so you can figure out how it's supposed to look, then perform manual orbits once you know what the turns look like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 15, 2013, 08:37:31 am
This game is difficult. I have a butt load of boosters on my rocket and it goes wicked fast, but I still don't have enough fuel to get to the mun and back (Or even land on it without running out of fuel mid brake and dying).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2013, 08:38:48 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 15, 2013, 08:37:31 am
This game is difficult. I have a butt load of boosters on my rocket and it goes wicked fast, but I still don't have enough fuel to get to the mun and back (Or even land on it without running out of fuel mid brake and dying).
can has ship file? I'm curious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 15, 2013, 08:41:31 am
Maybe, when I get home later todai. I hope the lag during the first phase doesn't kill your computer though.

Also, I made it designed so that there's no command module per se, just the small(er) part that lands and lifts back off for re-entry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2013, 08:43:33 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 15, 2013, 08:41:31 am
Maybe, when I get home later todai. I hope the lag during the first phase doesn't kill your computer though.

Also, I made it designed so that there's no command module per se, just the small(er) part that lands and lifts back off for re-entry.
My computer should be okay. PM me the file when you get home and I'll take a look.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 15, 2013, 08:44:13 am
You don't need to go too fast in the initial stages of ascent. I tend to go about 150m/s until 5k, and then slowly let it increase. There's just too much air density causing drag, so it's a waste of fuel to try to push harder and harder.

Another really important thing is nuclear engines, which are crazy efficient in space (look at their ISP). You should also severely limit the size of the ship that's in space.

I've been managing to get fairly heavy things into space with 1-6-6 mainsail engines, with 4 boosters attached to each tank on the outside layer.

Also, learn about asparagus staging. And here's (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/633039016669414767/C404E83F43D5E388CEB5D2F2609FE802BB73C695/) a more heavyweight ship I was using a while back. Notice that it has nuclear engines on top. That's the space stage, though usually I think the main mainsail engine survives until I hit moon orbit.

G'luck!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 15, 2013, 08:44:48 am
The tutorial should help,  I still don't know how to use the navball or maneuver thingy properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:48:10 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 15, 2013, 08:37:31 am
This game is difficult. I have a butt load of boosters on my rocket and it goes wicked fast, but I still don't have enough fuel to get to the mun and back (Or even land on it without running out of fuel mid brake and dying).
Understand how Specific Impulse works - essentially 'fuel efficiency'.  When it comes to space, you don't want to go fast at all.  You want to go slowly for a long time.  The higher the specific impulse (labeled ISP, literally written Isp but most formats don't support subscripts) the higher the fuel economy.

You want heavy, inefficient thrusters for escaping atmosphere.  Once you're in an orbit, you want lightweight, highly efficient engines to make burns.  Ion engines actually have INCREDIBLE efficiency, but don't have enough power to actually do anything for anything larger than a tiny probe body.  Nuclear engines (the LV-N) is fantastic for long, patient burns, but doesn't have enough thrust to get out of orbit without trickery.  The LV-30 is also pretty decent, as is the Toriadal Aerospike (which is also a great engine since it works the same in deep atmosphere as it does in vacuum).

Getting more specific, what you want is Delta Velocity, how much you can change your speed.  This depends on your weight, your fuel amount, and how efficient your engine is.  You want to shave off as much weight as you can, add as much fuel as you can, and get the most efficient engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 15, 2013, 09:18:33 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:48:10 am
You want to shave off as much weight as you can, add as much fuel as you can, and get the most efficient engine.

On a slightly off-topic note, this reminded me a ton of a boardgame called Galaxy Trucker. If you're into KSP, I highly suggest you try it at some point! It's hilarious, and the experience not too far from the KSP one... in particular, build a horribly inefficient spaceship that gets blown to pieces in dangerous space situations :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 15, 2013, 09:55:12 am
As an addition to Girlinhat's advice above, remember another thing about rocketry.

"Less is more."

It's easy to get caught in the trap of grossly overbuilding your rockets. You can go surprisingly far with relatively small designs, provided the overall capabilities of your rocket still hold - the Delta-V parameter Girlinhat mentioned, plus another important one called TWR, or Thrust-to-Weight Ratio.

Essentially, your rocket has to have enough fuel to go where it needs to go (delta-V), and it needs to be just powerful enough that it does not waste any of that fuel to forces like air resistance and gravity.

As a primer, aim for a TWR of no higher than 2, and no lower than 1.5. That is, when you throttle up fully and fire your engines on the launchpad, the little G-meter on the right side of the navball must jump to roughly the second notch, showing acceleration of 2G. You will notice that it drops fairly quickly from there, but it will build up again when you gain some altitude.

If you keep that acceleration of around 2G until around 20000 meters off the ground, then you're doing good. Higher up it's possible to accelerate even faster, but you should watch out so as not to overstress the rocket.

From there it all depends on what your rocket is and how much fuel your upper stages have. I recommend having at least a TWR of 1 for achieving orbit from that point, though it's possible to have a powerful but short-lived secondary booster stage to shove your ship up into space, and then stabilize the orbit with a weak but efficient engine like the NERVA (LV-N).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 15, 2013, 11:24:16 am
Or, if you use Mechjeb, there's a menu that lists of your TWR on Kerbin & Delta-V for each stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 11:25:46 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 15, 2013, 11:24:16 am
Or, if you use Mechjeb, there's a menu that lists of your TWR on Kerbin & Delta-V for each stage.
Highly suggest anyone get Mechjeb and then not use the autopilot.  The simple TWR and Dv are critical information, as are the vast array of orbital information.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2013, 11:46:48 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 11:25:46 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 15, 2013, 11:24:16 am
Or, if you use Mechjeb, there's a menu that lists of your TWR on Kerbin & Delta-V for each stage.
Highly suggest anyone get Mechjeb and then not use the autopilot.  The simple TWR and Dv are critical information, as are the vast array of orbital information.

the engineering plugin does the information part without the piloting part
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 15, 2013, 11:58:02 am
None of it is really critical. Helpful for fine tuning more advanced rocket designs for sure, but not critical at all. The vanilla game gives you MORE THAN ENOUGH information to go on and if you just look at a few of the example designs and play on your own from there, you're certain to be at least designing functional rockets, if not flying them into orbit quite yet.

Orbit itself isn't all that complicated either, just requires a few basic pieces of knowledge such as where the atmosphere stops, and that you actually need sideways motion once you get above it.

As the Russians are credited with saying(although variations I'm sure are much older), "Perfection is the enemy of good enough." Don't aim for perfect. Go to space today, learn something. Go to space better tomorrow.

Don't forget, there were some of us that were managing orbit and even Mun landings before we even had a proper map with trajectory displayed on it. Velocity, Direction and Altitude was all we had. And we learned a lot as a result of having to deal with so little.

If Jool had been in before the map system, I'm sure people would have made it there, as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2013, 12:04:38 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2013, 11:46:48 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 11:25:46 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 15, 2013, 11:24:16 am
Or, if you use Mechjeb, there's a menu that lists of your TWR on Kerbin & Delta-V for each stage.
Highly suggest anyone get Mechjeb and then not use the autopilot.  The simple TWR and Dv are critical information, as are the vast array of orbital information.

the engineering plugin does the information part without the piloting part
The autopilot is the least of what I use mechjeb for. It can plot a transfer without me tediously calculating phase angles and warp me directly to an SOI change without my stupid fingers overshooting. I still pilot manually, its just a glorified calculator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 12:07:14 pm
People can work orbits without the map.  Hell, I was playing in the OLDEST versions, when people didn't even realize that Kerbin was round - it was a bit of a surprise when people realized that you can actually make orbit.  We had spreadsheets to determine the altitude and speed required to actually make an orbit and had to eyeball it.

THAT SAID it's very difficult and it has a bit of fun to it, in a sort of technical achievement similar to figuring out a particularly tricky math problem, but it's not really that much fun.  The extra math and information available via plugins is just so much easier.  Just because you CAN plan a Homman transfer by hand, doesn't mean that everyone is required to do so, or that everyone is even capable of doing so!

Even if I'm flying pure manual, I'll use mechjeb to plan a transfer burn and then perform it myself.  Changing inclination is also something very specific and better done by computer...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2013, 12:12:42 pm
Exactly... I've done manual transfer orbits and docking and everything but it just gets old. In the end I am playing a game and we have computers that can plot these things.

tldr: I don't wash my clothes manually if I have a washing machine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2013, 12:13:11 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 12:07:14 pm
People can work orbits without the map.  Hell, I was playing in the OLDEST versions, when people didn't even realize that Kerbin was round - it was a bit of a surprise when people realized that you can actually make orbit.  We had spreadsheets to determine the altitude and speed required to actually make an orbit and had to eyeball it.

good times. I remember having to do the math for hoffman transfers then pointing an alarm because we had no warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 15, 2013, 12:27:14 pm
One thing that looks a little disappointing in .22 is the fact that aircraft parts seem to come after rockets, when it might be more fun to explore those first. But I suppose that spaceplanes only appeared after traditional rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 15, 2013, 12:39:14 pm
Yea that seems disappointing.  Yea spaceplanes came after rockets, but didn't conventional planes come before rockets?  At least ones meant for outer space anyway.

It seems that there would be science worth gaining to get a standard plane to a high altitude for a period of time even before you start toying around with rockets.  But I guess these are kerbals, they don't quite have all their marbles.

I'm sure some helpful modder will add in some low tech jet engines and wings for that though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 12:47:27 pm
It's Kerbal Space Program, not Kerbal Aeronautics Association D:

If you have a single rocket engine available, and give the players a single jet engine, you already have spaceplanes.  The only way to have planes without spaceplanes would be to have no rockets available, which would be counter-intuitive to the point of the game, which is 'get in a rocket and scream'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 15, 2013, 01:01:53 pm
Yea I guess this isn't National Aeronautics and Space Association Administration, it's just Kerbal Space Program.

Kerbal Aeronautics Association is probably that place on the island southeast of the space center.

Still I like the planes better than the rockets.  Rockets are mostly just "Point correct end towards space, If it doesn't reach orbit add more fuel or engines."  Spaceplanes are far more complex and enjoyable in my eyes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 15, 2013, 01:15:54 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 15, 2013, 01:01:53 pm
Yea I guess this isn't National Aeronautics and Space Association Administration, it's just Kerbal Space Program.

Kerbal Aeronautics Association is probably that place on the island southeast of the space center.

Still I like the planes better than the rockets.  Rockets are mostly just "Point correct end towards space, If it doesn't reach orbit add more fuel or engines."  Spaceplanes are far more complex and enjoyable in my eyes.
Then again, contrary to popular at this forum, the point of a difficulty curve is not to start at high end.

As a side note, I ended up eyeballing my lunar orbit. Ended up lower than expected. I really hope there're no 8 km mountains on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 01:21:12 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 15, 2013, 01:15:54 pm
As a side note, I ended up eyeballing my lunar orbit. Ended up lower than expected. I really hope there're no 8 km mountains on the Mun.
Quote from: wiki
The Mun's highest points reach a maximum altitude of more than 7061 m near the south pole at 152.33° W and 82.52° S. This altitude permits 10× warp, allowing crashes with terrain while being in a seemingly stable orbit.
Just what is your orbital height again, exactly?

I usually do 10km flyby gravity boosts, it gets pretty close...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 15, 2013, 02:22:51 pm
8200 equatorial orbit.

And yeah, the ground gets awfully close. It drains the sattelites batteries.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 15, 2013, 05:17:08 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2013, 12:13:11 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 12:07:14 pm
People can work orbits without the map.  Hell, I was playing in the OLDEST versions, when people didn't even realize that Kerbin was round - it was a bit of a surprise when people realized that you can actually make orbit.  We had spreadsheets to determine the altitude and speed required to actually make an orbit and had to eyeball it.

good times. I remember having to do the math for hoffman transfers then pointing an alarm because we had no warp.
I remember one of the oldest versions I played. I managed to crash into the Mun with only the oldest map, before the interceptions showed up or manoeuver nodes were implemented. Just eyeballing the angle of intersection and the time of burn. Good times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 15, 2013, 07:35:34 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/229-KSP-Weekly-October-15-2013
Guess what comes today...;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 15, 2013, 08:01:34 pm
Quote from: ahappydude on October 15, 2013, 07:35:34 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/229-KSP-Weekly-October-15-2013
Guess what comes today...;)

STEAM. UPDATE KSP. PLEASE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:16:22 pm
Questionable at best.  The date posted may have been the date from a different time zone that was misplaced one day ahead.  I'm hopeful as well, just not optimistic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 15, 2013, 08:19:11 pm
Steam is getting f***** today haha :O
Well we can hope. __:J
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 15, 2013, 08:20:50 pm
Well a little bit under the trailer, there is a date wich is the 16october, sadly for me it means tomorow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:25:45 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on October 15, 2013, 08:20:50 pm
Well a little bit under the trailer, there is a date wich is the 16october, sadly for me it means tomorow.
Correct, but it's the 15th in the US and the 16th in Britain.  So it might be a difference in timezones, that the one posting the video did so earlier than they thought, or did so in a different time zone where it is the 16th.  I'd like it to be true as well, but we'll just have to see what happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 15, 2013, 08:27:19 pm
In any case, i wonder how mods that has part will be integrated in the new research window thingy, that is if they can incorporate it in the campaign research gameplay.

Would love to start real low and then have branching research for each mod that choose to support the research window :D.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 08:42:38 pm
I feel certain mods will be able to be researched.
1: Squad has been INCREDIBLY forward in supporting mods.
2: All stock parts are listed as editable files.  It stands to reason the research levels will be listed in the parts and be editable as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 15, 2013, 09:06:54 pm
So, thanks to that preview video, I finally got around to watching a previous one, explaining blah blah blah stored sub-assemblies.

I don't have to rebuild the bottom end of the rocket to change the top end of the payload?  I can build a lateral plane and stick it on a radial rocket without having to freehand the symmetry like the very first version?

THANK
FUCKING
GOD

Yeah yeah research whatever, that right makes the game substantially more enjoyable for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 09:13:37 pm
I'm also particularly looking forward to bringing radial and lateral symmetry items into the same design.  There's several spaceplane ideas I want to construct, but don't work very well in lateral symmetry...  And rovers don't build well in radial either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 15, 2013, 09:14:05 pm
Quote from: ahappydude on October 15, 2013, 07:35:34 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/229-KSP-Weekly-October-15-2013
Guess what comes today...;)

Squad is Mexican, right? Tomorrow, then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 15, 2013, 09:53:28 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 09:13:37 pm
I'm also particularly looking forward to bringing radial and lateral symmetry items into the same design.  There's several spaceplane ideas I want to construct, but don't work very well in lateral symmetry...  And rovers don't build well in radial either.

Are they actually allowing you to use both types of symmetry on a single vehicle, or do you mean creating a plane then importing onto a rocket?

Wish they'd give the ship construction part of the game another pass or two...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 09:54:37 pm
Quote from: Kanil on October 15, 2013, 09:53:28 pm
Wish they'd give the ship construction part of the game another pass or two...
I'm still holding out for vertical grid-snap options...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 15, 2013, 09:55:54 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 15, 2013, 09:54:37 pm
Quote from: Kanil on October 15, 2013, 09:53:28 pm
Wish they'd give the ship construction part of the game another pass or two...
I'm still holding out for vertical grid-snap options...

I'd like grid-snap in all 3 dimensions, really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 15, 2013, 11:22:26 pm
October 16th is only 40 minutes away...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 15, 2013, 11:37:52 pm
sadly i think it will be mostly durng the day, not automatic 12:00 delivery system, at least i dont think so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 16, 2013, 12:08:40 am
It's now oficially the 16'th in Mexico, GIMMY GIMMY GIMMY!

I leave for vacation in one hour... just my luck :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 01:23:55 am
Quote from: ank on October 16, 2013, 12:08:40 am
It's now oficially the 16'th in Mexico, GIMMY GIMMY GIMMY!

I leave for vacation in one hour... just my luck :(
Since when did Mexico use GMT?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 16, 2013, 01:28:19 am
Since never... it was 6 am GMT when I posted this... Not that I use GMT anyways.


EDIT: Kinda disappointed by the trailer. It was very un-kerbal, no FUN at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 16, 2013, 01:38:25 am
Quote from: ank on October 16, 2013, 01:28:19 am
Since never... it was 6 am GMT when I posted this... Not that I use GMT anyways.
On internet i always use GMT, but i include my timezone, liike right now its 0243 GMT -5. MAN i wanna play .22 ....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 01:53:04 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 01:23:55 am
Quote from: ank on October 16, 2013, 12:08:40 am
It's now oficially the 16'th in Mexico, GIMMY GIMMY GIMMY!

I leave for vacation in one hour... just my luck :(
Since when did Mexico use GMT?

It crosses 3 timezones, and it was the 16th in Mexico City when that post was posted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 16, 2013, 04:35:55 am
HRRRNGH ME GUSTA.

My Steam is crapping out, is the update up yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2013, 04:38:01 am
Not on Steam as far as I can see.

I think we'll get a whole slew of posts a-la "STEAM IS UPDATING KSP!" on the official forums and here both when it is out. Until then we just wait.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 16, 2013, 04:48:49 am
This is truth. The waiting game it is! Time to mash F5 on the official forums while training my Pokémans
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 16, 2013, 05:50:38 am
YAY it's nearly here :D
Can't wait!

PS: holy mother of jeb, the struts are AFTER the NUCLEAR ENGINES? Oh man, this is going to be HARD. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2013, 06:02:52 am
They aren't really AFTER nuclear engines, they are on a rather different part of the tree I think.
(edit: also, what? The LV-N is way at the back of the tree. The only "struts" in the same tier as it are the octagonal trusses.)

Plus it's been said that the tree is being reworked constantly - what we saw last is likely not to be what we are going to get.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 09:28:58 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olcAaDskOLQ

This is the coolest video I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2013, 02:24:16 pm
And update is GO! :D

At least Steam is downloading something for KSP. Something 70 megabytes in size. Could it be the !!SCIENCE!! update? LET'S FIND OUT! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 02:26:51 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2013, 02:24:16 pm
And update is GO! :D

At least Steam is downloading something for KSP. Something 70 megabytes in size. Could it be the !!SCIENCE!! update? LET'S FIND OUT! :D
Confirmed for download on site being .22
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 02:27:18 pm
Still waiting for steam to realize .22 is out..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 02:29:34 pm
People in the chat are reporting it's downloading something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2013, 02:30:25 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 02:27:18 pm
Still waiting for steam to realize .22 is out..
Just close it (meaning, exit the client from the tray icon) and start it again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 02:31:22 pm
Well the download time for me keeps going up, so people are piling on the website.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 02:32:30 pm
Yeah, downloads are gonna be slow for the DL rush...

I'll be in after about an hour from now.  Preparing my SRB Science plans...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 16, 2013, 02:34:46 pm
I got it in 9 minutes, which is good.

Thinking back to previous updates, this is a wast improvement! I used to go to a torrent site and download the new versions(even though I bought it)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 16, 2013, 02:38:05 pm
Ah, of course it comes out on my busiest day of the week. On top of that, I have a midterm tonight, so I probably won't play it until tomorrow :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 02:42:19 pm
I just did a science. I strapped jeb to a solid rocket booster and science.

Edit: Flight 1 - Suborbital testing. 12 science from 1 crew report plus recovery of the craft.

SCIENCE SUCCESS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 16, 2013, 02:48:29 pm
DAMMIT

IT'S NOT EVEN 4PM

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


If you think I'm being far too hysterical, then fine, but I'll have you know I've been holding off on posting in this thread for a few days now because all of my posts would've ended up that way.

All in all, I feel I did a good job not hystericalising more than I did!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 02:52:36 pm
So confirmed that successive reports or observations of the same type rapidly reduce the value of science retained.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 16, 2013, 02:57:28 pm
I find it facinating that this thread is still active two years after the person who created it last was on the forum...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 02:59:52 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 16, 2013, 02:57:28 pm
I find it facinating that this thread is still active two years after the person who created it last was on the forum...

Not only that, but it hasn't imploded on itself! It's good to know that most people are in agreement when it comes to space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 03:01:14 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 16, 2013, 02:57:28 pm
I find it facinating that this thread is still active two years after the person who created it last was on the forum...

Which makes updating the OP rather unlikely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 16, 2013, 03:04:06 pm
Perhaps we need a new thread so we can keep the OP updated with new info? Or would it just discombobulate the lurkers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on October 16, 2013, 04:04:22 pm
Oooh! I've always wanted to be OP of a thread like this!
...Maybe it's a good idea I don't then.

Am definitely going to grab the update tonight, will report back with my !!SCIENCE!! asap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 04:05:56 pm
Just failed a mission to mun because the LV-909 doesn't output electric power at all, so I ran out of power halfway through the landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 16, 2013, 04:28:17 pm
Oh, the update is out?
Maybe I'll try it out later, :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 04:31:20 pm
Need more electrics! I can't send all this data.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fayrik on October 16, 2013, 04:48:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 04:05:56 pm
Just failed a mission to mun because the LV-909 doesn't output electric power at all, so I ran out of power halfway through the landing.
And so a valuable lesson is learned: Never rely on rocket generated electricity!

Whenever I make a design that requires rocket juice it always fails. But then I tend to leave things in LKO for a round or two before I send 'em on their way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 04:54:48 pm
I'm not yet sure if I like having to research pretty much everything that can make your rocket more efficient. It will make earlier flights more expensive which would make the early game a bit harder but it gives a real sense of advancing technology.

PS: Is there a way to see which data you've already collected?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 16, 2013, 05:06:31 pm
Wait, do subassemblies not work in our old saves?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 05:18:13 pm
ah! you can have the needed 5 science without killing poor jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 05:18:47 pm
...how do you get science?

EDIT: Never mind figured it out. In the process Jeb left some harsh words on the research building roof.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 16, 2013, 05:22:54 pm
So I thought I could send multiple crew reports back, like during lanuch, from low orbit and high orbit, but it seems when you send back reports they overwrite each other.

Also, my second launch didn't have any landing legs, and when it fell over it destroyed all my goo!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 05:32:41 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on October 16, 2013, 04:48:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 04:05:56 pm
Just failed a mission to mun because the LV-909 doesn't output electric power at all, so I ran out of power halfway through the landing.
And so a valuable lesson is learned: Never rely on rocket generated electricity!

Difficult when there's no other way to get or store electricity in the early game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 16, 2013, 05:36:48 pm
Yup, sub assemblies do not work on previous save files. This is really depressing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 05:46:33 pm
I use too many mods. I think I'll go back to sandbox.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 05:46:54 pm
1: Takes 2 hours building a space probe and putting it around the Mun
2: Figures out that it doesn't actually do anything
3: Goes onto Bay 12 to share the funny story
4: Finds out update was released earlier that day, which will make it no longer pointless

IronTomato has become enraged!

The bullet strikes IronTomato in the head, tearing apart the muscle, jamming the skull through the brain and tearing the brain!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 05:57:21 pm
Anyone seen how tech levels can be modded?  What files or folders are they located in?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 06:01:11 pm
Each part has what tech it needs in its file. I couldn't find the tech tree file though. There's a ScienceDefs file but it seems to only contain data on how to get science points, not on the tech tree; though I did as little looking through said file as possible, so I may have missed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 06:06:20 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 05:57:21 pm
Anyone seen how tech levels can be modded?  What files or folders are they located in?

I've been trying to get mechjeb in but with no success. MAYBE I have to start a new game with modified files. Not tried yet.

Necessary things:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53025-Science-and-mods!

You need:
PART {}
TechRequired =
entryCost =

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:10:01 pm
IIRC, Squad has said that you can't add nodes to the tree yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 06:12:08 pm
Someone got mechjeb working. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52600-How-will-22-Effect-Mods/page2

Oh, okay. I'm using an old mechjeb. That could be one problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 06:13:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 05:18:13 pm
ah! you can have the needed 5 science without killing poor jeb.
Why would you have to kill him?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:16:00 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 06:13:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 05:18:13 pm
ah! you can have the needed 5 science without killing poor jeb.
Why would you have to kill him?

Yeah, you could just have a single-part ship, have Jeb leave it, get a soil sample, then come back in. Or, you could send him up with the basic fuel tank + the basic thruster, get some science while they're fairly high up, then turn on the parachute.

I would put it as far in the tech tree as possible, tbh. I have too much fun manually piloting smaller ships to use MechJeb on them :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2013, 06:20:59 pm
Can you manually collect science or do you just get it for being high up?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:22:09 pm
You have to check the crew status by right-clicking the pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 06:24:52 pm
Mechjeb 2.0.9 has one part. Add this to make it work as a start part in career mode:

   TechRequired = start
   entryCost = 50
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:26:17 pm
If you want to put it in a place that makes perfect sense:

   TechRequired = advFlightControl
   entryCost = 3600
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 06:39:26 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:26:17 pm
If you want to put it in a place that makes perfect sense:

   TechRequired = advFlightControl
   entryCost = 3600
Or you could let other people use mods the way they want to. Just because you don't enjoy using doesn't mean he wants to wait until endgame. I never use the thing for automatic pilot but I DO use it to calculate transfers because I've done dozens and they are time consuming and tedious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 06:50:06 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 06:39:26 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:26:17 pm
If you want to put it in a place that makes perfect sense:

   TechRequired = advFlightControl
   entryCost = 3600
Or you could let other people use mods the way they want to. Just because you don't enjoy using doesn't mean he wants to wait until endgame. I never use the thing for automatic pilot but I DO use it to calculate transfers because I've done dozens and they are time consuming and tedious.

avdFlightControl makes sense. That or one of the unused experimental categories. BUT you might as well go sandbox with such late game usage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 16, 2013, 06:51:02 pm
Welp, after a bit of annoyance I now have come to love the science system.  I was making like 8 science with a rocket equipped with 4 goo cans, then I learned I could get a crew report based on the situation, and a EVA report, and a soil sample when I landed, and the goo can has regional science to provide just like soil samples.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 06:55:06 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 06:50:06 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 06:39:26 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 06:26:17 pm
If you want to put it in a place that makes perfect sense:

   TechRequired = advFlightControl
   entryCost = 3600
Or you could let other people use mods the way they want to. Just because you don't enjoy using doesn't mean he wants to wait until endgame. I never use the thing for automatic pilot but I DO use it to calculate transfers because I've done dozens and they are time consuming and tedious.

avdFlightControl makes sense. That or one of the unused experimental categories. BUT you might as well go sandbox with such late game usage.
Yeah my post probably came across with more vitriol than intended.  :-[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 06:58:34 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 16, 2013, 06:57:27 pm
So, after getting really excited whilst I wait for the download, I realised you can get a fair bit of science straight off.

You get 5 from simply launching, then you can get a soil sample, strap some goo to your rocket and you can get MORE science from simply sitting on the platform (the latter's if I'm understanding it right)

Recover rocket, SCIENCE!
Also you get science based on WHERE you go. I got more for flying out and landing at the highlands, for example. It even said "EVA report from Kerbal highlands, soil sample from Kerbal highlands" etc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 07:01:06 pm
I got 30 science from a goo sample taken in outer munar orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 16, 2013, 07:06:33 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 07:01:06 pm
I got 30 science from a goo sample taken in outer munar orbit.

Kill it. Now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 07:07:24 pm
Recovery gives 100% science. Want to rescue Kerbals? Don't do it! RESCUE SCIENCE INSTEAD!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 16, 2013, 07:09:11 pm
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on October 16, 2013, 07:06:33 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 07:01:06 pm
I got 30 science from a goo sample taken in outer munar orbit.

Kill it. Now.
When you test it in high orbit it says that "It seems to be at home here"

Which is odd seeing as at lower altitudes it's freezing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 07:10:06 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 07:07:24 pm
Recovery gives 100% science. Want to rescue Kerbals? Don't do it! RESCUE SCIENCE INSTEAD!!
Well.. rescue the kerbals if they have samples and reports!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 16, 2013, 07:17:43 pm
Anyone else's menus also being super slow to switch?

Like, when you go from the part-adder to astronaut selection in the ship-building screen?

I'm getting a few weird performance issues. I've entirely cleaned up all KSP data I could find, and reinstalled. Still weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 07:40:27 pm
note that if you transmit some research data and then return you don't get the full value upon return. this means lot of lost research!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 07:42:28 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 07:40:27 pm
note that if you transmit some research data and then return you don't get the full value upon return. this means lot of lost research!
Yep! You're much better off just hanging onto it if you can return.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 07:44:45 pm
also you get science for all stage so if you plan a mon trip bring

goo for the atmosphere
goo for the high atmosphere
goo for the low space
goo for the high space
goo for the high moon
goo for the low moon

however if a research say that after trasmission you get 100% science, transmit away!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 16, 2013, 07:45:47 pm
Apparently recovering a ship that survived a flight gives you science. Even if that flight is just the power that a decoupler gives you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 07:48:23 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 16, 2013, 07:45:47 pm
Apparently recovering a ship that survived a flight gives you science. Even if that flight is just the power that a decoupler gives you.
Yes but doing it several times quickly depreciates to nothing at all. So far I haven't found anything that is repeatable to any huge degree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 08:07:27 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2013, 07:44:45 pm
also you get science for all stage so if you plan a mon trip bring

goo for the atmosphere
goo for the high atmosphere
goo for the low space
goo for the high space
goo for the high moon
goo for the low moon

however if a research say that after trasmission you get 100% science, transmit away!

The same goes for the Science Jr part. It collects different things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 08:08:44 pm
Yus. A free return trajectory past the moon got me ~130 science and I have unlocked the static solar panels. Oh god... I am excited about the shitty static solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 16, 2013, 08:12:15 pm
Download faster, damnit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 16, 2013, 08:17:51 pm
Quote from: alexandertnt on October 16, 2013, 08:12:15 pm
Download faster, damnit.

Download in one piece dammit.

Third time I've started this download, and now it's saying it'll be at least an hour.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 08:18:13 pm
Give me continuous science generation, damnit.

Mah Science Jr's all fell off in the ocean! GRAH
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
Jet aircraft engines can be researched before researching landing gear.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 16, 2013, 08:35:47 pm
Landing is overrated anyway.

First mission was successful, 10 science for orbiting and then landing was pretty nice. Didn't unlock much, but decouplers might be enough to go somewhere interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:37:58 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
Jet aircraft engines can be researched before researching landing gear.
Quote from: Kanil on October 16, 2013, 08:35:47 pm
Landing is overrated anyway.

First mission was successful, 10 science for orbiting and then landing was pretty nice. Didn't unlock much, but decouplers might be enough to go somewhere interesting.
Parachutes. Attatch 'em. Use 'em. Love 'em.

My download's taking its sweet time before breaking. Greatorder's torrent idea is starting to sound good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:42:46 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 16, 2013, 08:40:50 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:37:58 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
Jet aircraft engines can be researched before researching landing gear.
Quote from: Kanil on October 16, 2013, 08:35:47 pm
Landing is overrated anyway.

First mission was successful, 10 science for orbiting and then landing was pretty nice. Didn't unlock much, but decouplers might be enough to go somewhere interesting.
Parachutes. Attatch 'em. Use 'em. Love 'em.

My download's taking its sweet time before breaking. Greatorder's torrent idea is starting to sound good.
Hunh?

When'd I recommend torrenting?
I didn't mean you recommended it, you just said a while ago that you used to download new versions with torrents instead of waiting for the end of the DL rush.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 08:44:11 pm
So, how do you install Mechjeb 2 in the new system?  I get that you need to add tech level unlocks, but all other mods have a simple gamedata folder you can toss in.  Mechjeb is a bit more weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 08:58:54 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 08:44:11 pm
So, how do you install Mechjeb 2 in the new system?  I get that you need to add tech level unlocks, but all other mods have a simple gamedata folder you can toss in.  Mechjeb is a bit more weird.

Install as normal but add this to your mechjeb part .cfg file under...

Code: [Select]
    // --- editor parameters ---
    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 09:08:21 pm
120 science from mun samples.

Damn. I'm still at the part of the tech tree where everything costs 90 and got a 560 science mission under my belt now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 09:11:54 pm
I'm doing a mun mission now. about 70% of my rocket launch weight was SRB
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 16, 2013, 09:24:52 pm
Note to self: Put radio antennas on everything.

I don't know how expensive Science Goo is, but I bet it's not free.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 09:31:25 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on October 16, 2013, 09:24:52 pm
Note to self: Put radio antennas on everything.

I don't know how expensive Science Goo is, but I bet it's not free.
Fortunately money isn't in the game just yet, so science goo IS free.

Well.. you have to unlock it with other science, if thats what you mean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 09:42:07 pm
What's that control? You need Jeb to deliver the mun samples to the science center when he returns? Okay.

(http://i.imgur.com/IJWClgrl.png) (http://imgur.com/IJWClgr)

Talk about pinpoint landing. This was a total accident return from the mun, I was targeting the KSC manually but wow...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 09:43:18 pm
"When we wanted the rocket's payload delivered to the science division, we didn't intend for Jeb to CRASH THE ROCKET INTO THE BUILDING!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 16, 2013, 09:44:05 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 09:43:18 pm
"When we wanted the rocket's payload delivered to the science division, we didn't intend for Jeb to CRASH THE ROCKET INTO THE BUILDING!"
Jeb's express delivery service. Where parcels are delivered so fast, they're blue-shifted!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 09:49:33 pm
Is it possible for materiel science labs to survive water landings or do I have to aim for land to recover them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 16, 2013, 09:59:51 pm
They can survive water landings just fine. I've been testing things, but the lack of an early power source really is annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 10:03:39 pm
Water and land landings work if you add parachutes to slow down more. One parachute per large part seems about right. One per lab and one for the crew capsule.

My first munar mission did not land but got Science Jr. and goo readings from high mun and low mun orbit. Got about 220 science. Tech'd up to barometer and temp and tiny solars. I need a skylab so bad for a steady trickle of science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 10:10:08 pm
Shamelessly using Mechjeb, I'm making Munar flybys to collect more science to unlock more items.  Currently working towards solar panels and fuel lines, which will enable Asparagus and not-burning-fuel-to-get-electricity which should enable some much more far-reaching missions...

I find this VERY interesting.  Suddenly we're not loading orange tanks everywhere!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 10:28:20 pm
Yeah, it's way fun to be forced to do things I'm not used to doing (no sarcasm).

I was disappointed to find that I still put Mechjeb too early in the tech tree for my tastes, in the same spot as ASAS. Before I unlocked it, though, I managed to do a mun flyby by flying straight up, so that was nice. (It was an accident, too!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 16, 2013, 10:30:40 pm
Do the old sensors (thermometer, barometer, etc.) give science?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 10:36:18 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 16, 2013, 10:30:40 pm
Do the old sensors (thermometer, barometer, etc.) give science?
A streamer before said yes.  It's the next thing I'm unlocking, so I'll report findings as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 10:37:13 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 16, 2013, 10:30:40 pm
Do the old sensors (thermometer, barometer, etc.) give science?

Yes. Not much, though. Barometer does nothing in vacuum. I get 8 or so science max from ground to high orbit Kerbin.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This barely gets to munar orbit and back. Well, this minus the solars/temp/barometer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 16, 2013, 10:38:30 pm
Holy science points, batman! For massive science points fairly early on, get a craft to just beyond kerbin escape velocity. Research from sun-relative space has a base value of 10, and so goo gives 100 on the first go. When you finish collection, just thrust a little bit so you fall back into Kerbin gravity, then fall safely back to the surface. Got over 350 science from a single mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 10:45:25 pm
Quote from: alway on October 16, 2013, 10:38:30 pm
Holy science points, batman! For massive science points fairly early on, get a craft to just beyond kerbin escape velocity. Research from sun-relative space has a base value of 10, and so goo gives 100 on the first go. When you finish collection, just thrust a little bit so you fall back into Kerbin gravity, then fall safely back to the surface. Got over 350 science from a single mission.

I just did this accidentally trying to get to minmus. Got over 600 points in one mission. Woohoo!

I also happened to encounter Mun on the way down. Extra EVA research (which doesn't have a limit as far as I can tell)! Woohoo!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 16, 2013, 10:53:50 pm
So, uh... The science thing sometimes confuses me.

Mostly these two points: How many data can I hold in my capsule at once? Obviously I have to expunge/transmit a crew report to get a new one (or does the "expunge" just wipe it from the screen, and store the data in the capsule, there to be recovered in the final vehicle recover?), but what about Goo reports? Do those stack? Get a goo report on the ground, then go up into space and reset the goo and get another report. Does it over-write the first report or is it in the capsule somewhere, waiting for the final recovery?

Also: If I transmit a 40% report of science, what happens to the other 60%? Can I recover it with another transmission? Either on the first vehicle or a subsequent one? If not, can I get it by getting the data again in another vehicle and recovering that one? Or is that last 60% lost forever?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 10:55:36 pm
Goo reports stay in the goo capsule. I haven't transmitted much science wirelessly, I've done it almost entirely through recovery, so iono.

EDIT: I would have liked to know about this a few hours ago (top) (http://i.imgur.com/sLmgA2g.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2013, 11:20:01 pm
Near Mun temp is worth 24 science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 16, 2013, 11:24:05 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 16, 2013, 10:53:50 pm
-snip-
If you transmit anything you only get the %, with the rest lost.  Landing will not provide the remaining.  If you are going to land, land and recover.  I only have antenna on for emergencies.

As far as I can tell everything holds one use of data (one crew member eva per member, one goo use per goo can, ect.)  The things like goo cans and science Jr do not hold their data in the capsule but the object them selves.  So you need to recover the entire science component of your ship to get all of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 16, 2013, 11:24:45 pm
Having fun with this, but I have to go to bed :(.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 11:27:48 pm
I suspect KAS will become relevant somewhat soon.  Being able to transfer a few goo canisters to a small probe, and sending the probe back to Kerbin would be MUCH more efficient than returning a whole vessel...

Then again, there's no real reason to leave a whole vessel out.  You just have to briefly visit an area and get back to get the sciences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 16, 2013, 11:28:37 pm
Quote from: Shooer on October 16, 2013, 11:24:05 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 16, 2013, 10:53:50 pm
-snip-
If you transmit anything you only get the %, with the rest lost.  Landing will not provide the remaining.  If you are going to land, land and recover.  I only have antenna on for emergencies.

As far as I can tell everything holds one use of data (one crew member eva per member, one goo use per goo can, ect.)  The things like goo cans and science Jr do not hold their data in the capsule but the object them selves.  So you need to recover the entire science component of your ship to get all of it.
Hmm. Well, the latter is fucking obvious, but I guess the former means I gotta put more than 1 goo can if I'm planning a multi-goo expedition.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 16, 2013, 11:33:58 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 16, 2013, 11:27:48 pm
I suspect KAS will become relevant somewhat soon.  Being able to transfer a few goo canisters to a small probe, and sending the probe back to Kerbin would be MUCH more efficient than returning a whole vessel...

Then again, there's no real reason to leave a whole vessel out.  You just have to briefly visit an area and get back to get the sciences.
Why would you need KAS? Just build your rocket with the crew-pod, then stick a probe-body on the top and put your goo-pods on the probe body. Do your goo scans, de-couple the probe manually, and control from the stayputnik and get it back home. Then go back to your rocket and go on your merry way.

Edit: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53170-Science-Question-When-How-do-diminished-returns-kick-in-with-radio-transmissions Woot, so there's no reason -not- to transmit. You'll either crash and burn and get -some- science, or you'll recover it and get the total you would have gotten from a straight recovery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on October 17, 2013, 12:41:14 am
For an added early kick, I found that you can generate an EVA report while floating above every biome on Kerbin. Each seems to be worth around 8 science. I got ~100 science on my first orbital mission by doing so.

Guess Bob was remarking on the view from up in space.

The capsule holds a seemingly unlimited amount of EVA reports too. Not sure if that's intentional or not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 17, 2013, 01:00:19 am
So, wasn't paying attention, ended up going out of kerbin's grav well while attempting to go to Mun. So instead I went to Duna.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Worked out a lot better than could usually be expected for a craft designed for orbitting round the Mun. Got a hella sweet trajectory lined up for an atmos deceleration, a mere 4.75 km from the surface after adjusting up a bit for safety; ended up going into Duna's moon's influence too. The actual landing was survived, though the craft was ripped apart when the chutes deployed. The tip landed safely, putting my first Kerbal on Duna; the 2 other pieces of debris that survived can be seen far off in the background. Unfortunately, no transmitters survived, since those were on the body because I was dumb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 17, 2013, 01:22:41 am
Spammy science probes are the best.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2013, 02:44:06 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 17, 2013, 01:22:41 am
Spammy science probes are the best.

But you lose lot of science not returning things and the payoff if you later return with a salvageable craft you will get the science reduced and all research is lost forever

This gives me lot of anxiety what if I saste too much science and I can't unlock everything?

So now I always either return the experiment or abandon it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 17, 2013, 02:47:22 am
Argh, I lost power part-way through downloading it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 17, 2013, 06:12:09 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:42:46 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 16, 2013, 08:40:50 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:37:58 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
Jet aircraft engines can be researched before researching landing gear.
Quote from: Kanil on October 16, 2013, 08:35:47 pm
Landing is overrated anyway.

First mission was successful, 10 science for orbiting and then landing was pretty nice. Didn't unlock much, but decouplers might be enough to go somewhere interesting.
Parachutes. Attatch 'em. Use 'em. Love 'em.

My download's taking its sweet time before breaking. Greatorder's torrent idea is starting to sound good.
Hunh?

When'd I recommend torrenting?
I didn't mean you recommended it, you just said a while ago that you used to download new versions with torrents instead of waiting for the end of the DL rush.

Ahem... that was me...


On an unrelated note I sent a probe to EVE, since getting back from Eve is almost impossible.
I forgot parachutes, and some way to control entry.

I did find out that Eve is made of harder stuff than my probe, so there's that.

Also, one day Jeb had a craving for mint, so he stole a three person experimental craft:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Look how happy he is!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 06:24:41 am
hur hur, try getting a surface sample from the launchpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 06:55:26 am
I don't think you actually lose any science if you transmit stuff back. Based on what I'm seeing, you've got a number that's the total amount of science a given part can give you for a given location.

Example(numbers might be off slightly, doing it from memory, but the theory is correct as I've watched it happen in several places):

Using the Materials Lab in orbit of the Mun can get you 100 science total. You can use the lab and then return it to Kerbin for all 100 science, or your can transmit for 20% of that, which would be 20 science. The other 80 isn't lost, it's still there since you can transmit again for another 20% of that 80 which gives you 16 science and leaves 64. Transmit again for 20% of that and you get 12.8 science, leaving you 51.2 science. You can keep doing this, shaving 20% off the remaining science each time, for as long as you have power available. Now, if you keep doing it it will inevitably leave you with a small remnant of science, since you can never collect it ALL if you just keep shaving 20% off of it, but if you transmit enough, you can end up with a number of remaining science left that's so small it'd be thrown away by the game anyway when rounding numbers.


It is tedious, requires a lot of clicking and requires some sort of power source to keep your batteries charged through all this inefficient transmitting but you never REALLY lose anything and it allows you to collect the science from multiple places with one vehicle. I just sent a probe to the Mun which got high mun orbit, low mun orbit and landed in a crater on the far side and researched that. With both the materials lab and the goo canister, it was very profitable science wise.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, I have strong suspicions that whatever science you DON"T transmit back in a given mission, can simply be grabbed in a later mission either through return samples or transmission. More tests will have to be done on this though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 07:00:45 am
Quote from: ank on October 17, 2013, 06:12:09 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:42:46 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 16, 2013, 08:40:50 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 16, 2013, 08:37:58 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 16, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
Jet aircraft engines can be researched before researching landing gear.
Quote from: Kanil on October 16, 2013, 08:35:47 pm
Landing is overrated anyway.

First mission was successful, 10 science for orbiting and then landing was pretty nice. Didn't unlock much, but decouplers might be enough to go somewhere interesting.
Parachutes. Attatch 'em. Use 'em. Love 'em.

My download's taking its sweet time before breaking. Greatorder's torrent idea is starting to sound good.
Hunh?

When'd I recommend torrenting?
I didn't mean you recommended it, you just said a while ago that you used to download new versions with torrents instead of waiting for the end of the DL rush.

Ahem... that was me...


On an unrelated note I sent a probe to EVE, since getting back from Eve is almost impossible.
I forgot parachutes, and some way to control entry.

I did find out that Eve is made of harder stuff than my probe, so there's that.

Also, one day Jeb had a craving for mint, so he stole a three person experimental craft:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Look how happy he is!
Whoops.

Sorry, Greatorder. And ank.

Edit: I just noticed that that flag had your Bay 12 avatar on it. I'm going to put my Abe avatar on a flag, and probably write HATERS GONNA HATE under it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 17, 2013, 07:19:18 am
KSP needs a Tourism mod.

Make spacestations with hydroponics, views, etc etc. Imagine a Startopia lite, but building stuff and getting people there and back is just a whole hella lot harder. And more fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 07:31:29 am
Imagine a sort of a Tycoon, except somewhat different. You have tourist modules, and bring tourists aboard. The tourists pay you a fixed amount of money in advance, so what you do is try to make them happy - let them experience some g's if they want to, give them planetary views, interesting sights, etc. The happier the tourists leave your rocket (assuming they live to leave your rocket), the better your space program's Space Tourism rating, and the higher the price future tourists will agree to pay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 07:35:30 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 17, 2013, 07:19:18 am
KSP needs a Tourism mod.

Make spacestations with hydroponics, views, etc etc. Imagine a Startopia lite, but building stuff and getting people there and back is just a whole hella lot harder. And more fun!
Further down Career mode, it's assumed that crew will eventually die.  You'll have to bring some sort of life support and food source, along with ideally some type of leisure activities to keep them sane.  You won't be able to just pop over to Jool and drift there, you'll have to prepare!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 17, 2013, 07:40:26 am
Oh yeah, Life Support and time span.  I forgot about that kind of stuff, and I was already expecting the full game to get wildly harder just from reentry heat and G-forces actually doing something.  Plus... budgeting.  Scary.

I've noticed two things about the Science progression added to the game.  The first is that the "diminishing returns" function of science data makes it seem almost pointless to transmit anything, as opposed to sending craploads of missions to return data, except for Fire And Forget space probes (just like NASA).

The other is that being forced to worth with only a small selection of parts has definitely effected my rocket building sense, in that I'm building idiotic stacks of boosters and multi-engine jobs just like I did in the game's early versions.  Which stands to reason, in its own way, and is a lot of fun again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 17, 2013, 08:16:46 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 07:35:30 am
You'll have to bring some sort of life support and food source, along with ideally some type of leisure activities to keep them sane.
Whatever do you mean? There's a compartment clearly marked "Food" and "Board Games" in the Hitchhiker.  :P


But yeah, I'm also in love with this new  science thing. I actually enjoy playing vanilla even after I've sent a probe to everywhere and Jeb to Eve.

As far as the whole budget thing goes, I hope they implement that as soon as possible, otherwise all my Rocket Company DH-1 TSTO knockoffs will just have been furious projection of a massive rocket flight nerd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 08:37:50 am
Space monopoly probably involves spatial dice trajectory planning and trying to get your cluster of positively charged plastic hotels to maintain a stable orbit around the negatively charged game board.

Also, I am having fun with .22. Haven't had much time, so I'm in the early stages of career for now.

Jeb's first Mun landing happened on the steep slope of a crater. The legs kept the lander somewhat stable, so Jeb went to the lip of the crater to plant a flag. On the way down, he hit the ground at speed, tumbled, and managed to hit the lander exactly right to knock it over.

Thankfully the lander could get back up with reaction wheels, but it really doesn't have enough fuel to go anywhere. It barely achieved a 45-degree inclined orbit some ten Km off the surface of the Mun, and that's with Jeb pushing.

I am now planning a rescue mission. Since I need to rescue the whole ship, it's going to be quite fun. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 08:39:21 am
If KSP has taught me anything about space, then the reason your hotels are drifting away from the planet is because you didn't link enough struts to the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 08:47:59 am
Quote from: greatorder on October 17, 2013, 08:45:09 am
If it taught ME anything, it's that orbits are weird.

To slow down, you need to speed up and get further away from the planet, to speed up, you need to go slower and get nearer to the planet.
And yet to get further away, you need to speed up!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 17, 2013, 09:05:48 am
So, my munar lander was a little bigger than I thought, and couldn't get back home. Cue rescue mission. My rescue mission also ran out of fuel... but it's got to 62,000 meters. It'll come back... eventually... (with even a little science for my efforts!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 09:16:25 am
This is how most rescue missions go.  Send one to rescue another.  It's tugs all the way down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 17, 2013, 09:38:33 am
Quote from: greatorder on October 17, 2013, 09:08:10 am
Quote from: Kanil on October 17, 2013, 09:05:48 am
So, my munar lander was a little bigger than I thought, and couldn't get back home. Cue rescue mission. My rescue mission also ran out of fuel... but it's got to 62,000 meters. It'll come back... eventually... (with even a little science for my efforts!)
I can now imagine layers and layers of debris orbiting the mun, each piece closer than the last, with hundreds of kerbals in orbit, thinking 'SO CLOSE! I JUST NEED A LITTLE MORE FUEL!'

You're gonna give the mun Kessler syndrome.
The plan is to build a chain of capsules that the kerbals can EVA between, eventually arriving in LKO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 09:55:41 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 06:55:26 am
I don't think you actually lose any science if you transmit stuff back. Based on what I'm seeing, you've got a number that's the total amount of science a given part can give you for a given location.

Example(numbers might be off slightly, doing it from memory, but the theory is correct as I've watched it happen in several places):

Using the Materials Lab in orbit of the Mun can get you 100 science total. You can use the lab and then return it to Kerbin for all 100 science, or your can transmit for 20% of that, which would be 20 science. The other 80 isn't lost, it's still there since you can transmit again for another 20% of that 80 which gives you 16 science and leaves 64. Transmit again for 20% of that and you get 12.8 science, leaving you 51.2 science. You can keep doing this, shaving 20% off the remaining science each time, for as long as you have power available. Now, if you keep doing it it will inevitably leave you with a small remnant of science, since you can never collect it ALL if you just keep shaving 20% off of it, but if you transmit enough, you can end up with a number of remaining science left that's so small it'd be thrown away by the game anyway when rounding numbers.


It is tedious, requires a lot of clicking and requires some sort of power source to keep your batteries charged through all this inefficient transmitting but you never REALLY lose anything and it allows you to collect the science from multiple places with one vehicle. I just sent a probe to the Mun which got high mun orbit, low mun orbit and landed in a crater on the far side and researched that. With both the materials lab and the goo canister, it was very profitable science wise.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, I have strong suspicions that whatever science you DON"T transmit back in a given mission, can simply be grabbed in a later mission either through return samples or transmission. More tests will have to be done on this though.

If you look in your save file you will see that science points go out 3 or 4 decimal places. Not at my computer to check just now. Rounding is not that much of an issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 10:23:21 am
I feel it might be better if transmitting data would only ever give you the 20%, and to get the remaining 80%, you need to return the experiment to the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 10:24:14 am
Bill to the rescue!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPSteam_Screens/screenshot359.png)

Very, very barely, with Bill barely putting himself into a 50km-periapsis aerobraking orbit, but the rescue mission succeeds!
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPSteam_Screens/screenshot364.png)

360 science points! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 17, 2013, 10:45:57 am
How did you rescue the rocket like that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 11:03:18 am
Built a heavy launcher out of basic parts (I got only two techs I think - My Little Rocket Too was my second launch, the rescue craft the third), gave the pusher an LV-T30 so it would have a means of replenishing electricity, added a four-prong fork out of trusses, and went off. Rendezvous is no more difficult without RCS, though maneuvering to push into the correct direction was harder. The small tanks attached radially don't actually connect to the center tank, and had to have their fuel manually transferred.

All that, plus liberal use of save/load to undo borked collisions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:12:24 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?
Go straight up.  You can get science rewards for low atmosphere, high atmosphere, low orbit, high orbit...  Grab a pod, go up!  Unlock goo, go up again!  Grab a Science Jr., go up again!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 17, 2013, 11:15:23 am
It's been so long I'm struggling to land on the Mun.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 11:03:18 am
Built a heavy launcher out of basic parts (I got only two techs I think - My Little Rocket Too was my second launch, the rescue craft the third), gave the pusher an LV-T30 so it would have a means of replenishing electricity, added a four-prong fork out of trusses, and went off. Rendezvous is no more difficult without RCS, though maneuvering to push into the correct direction was harder. The small tanks attached radially don't actually connect to the center tank, and had to have their fuel manually transferred.

All that, plus liberal use of save/load to undo borked collisions.
Fair enough if a bit crazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 11:22:04 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?

I find it's fastest to really really push the boundaries of what you can do with each tech. Your first launch should orbit. Your second launch should fly-by the moon. Your third should land (though mine needed launch 4 because there wasn't enough fuel...)

Run before you can walk! Dance before you can crawl!

Anyway...

This would make a fun succession game. Each player can launch a ship, complete the mission, and spend the Science they get before handing the game off to the next player.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 11:24:51 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:12:24 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?
Go straight up.  You can get science rewards for low atmosphere, high atmosphere, low orbit, high orbit...  Grab a pod, go up!  Unlock goo, go up again!  Grab a Science Jr., go up again!
Actually, go up and sideways. When you're out in space, EVA out of the pod and make reports. You get a different report based on what you're flying over. In a single orbit, you can see grasslands, mountains, deserts, and oceans - at least. All combined with the reports at different altitudes and the goo should give you enough parts to plan missions to the Mun, and you can score some pretty good science points up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 17, 2013, 11:29:21 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:12:24 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?
Go straight up.  You can get science rewards for low atmosphere, high atmosphere, low orbit, high orbit...  Grab a pod, go up!  Unlock goo, go up again!  Grab a Science Jr., go up again!
Land all over Kerbin, and get electrics right after Science Jr. Then load a probe up with instruments and radio back experiments from deep space like there's no tomorrow.

Edit: Is there a Science Sr.?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 11:47:06 am
Be careful when telling mechjeb to land on the surface of Kerbin. It might kick you into solar orbit and then try to flip your trajectory entirely. Even with infinite fuel this could take weeks or months.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 17, 2013, 11:53:18 am
The first orbital flight over Kerbin ended in tragedy when Jeb's ship crashed into the ocean at 10 m/s, instantly vapourizing it.

At first everything was going great. At tier 2 tech, Up-Goer 1 achieved orbit with a good quarter tank of fuel left in its orbital insertion stage and there was plenty of science to be had. It was only when the time to de-orbit came that I realized that mystery goo data is stored in the goo canisters and not the crew capsule like everything else. The goo pods were, of course, attached to the insertion stage which had to be ditched before landing.
I decided that the loss of the 20 or so science points in the goo pods was worth risking a semi-powered landing given how much fuel I had left, so I proceeded with the descent with the last stage still attached.
Unfortunately, I ended up overshooting KSC and falling into the ocean. I tried to fix it on the way down but only ended up wasting fuel. If I hit land the pod at least might have survived, but not in the merciless water.
With 100m to go I fired up the engine, but I went to far and overtook the parachute. Then, just a few metres above the surface, I ran out of fuel.

May Jeb be remembered for his selfless devotion to SCIENCE (at least until he reincarnates).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 12:03:15 pm
Step 1: screw up a landing on Kerbin from Minmus orbit
Step 2: end up in orbit around sun
Step 3: Hohmann transfer node in ... 8 years

Where's that mission clock mod? There's so much science on this ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2013, 12:34:35 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 11:22:04 am
...

This would make a fun succession game. Each player can launch a ship, complete the mission, and spend the Science they get before handing the game off to the next player.
This. Last time was extremely fun. Want more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 17, 2013, 12:40:53 pm
Seems like a good idea. Also, since this uses in game features. It has zero workload.

If nobody wants to set it up, I'll do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2013, 12:42:39 pm
I'm prepping the thread
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2013, 12:46:40 pm
I'd participate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 12:48:09 pm
I'd participate, too, but as a very, very novice rocketeer I'm not good at collecting much science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 12:48:09 pm
I'd be in for it, preferably with Mechjeb.  I admit I've grown fat and lazy in this time of automatic maneuver nodes and bringing super-large ships to orbit...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 12:53:02 pm
Ok, I'll start the thread. Join up here! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132171.msg4694085#msg4694085)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 17, 2013, 12:55:13 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2013, 12:42:39 pm
I'm prepping the thread
You know, I believe someone else was planning to do something.

Edit: Now you did it. We have 2 OP's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 17, 2013, 01:05:09 pm
I think I'll skip this time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 17, 2013, 01:19:35 pm
I did what someone suggested and got 360 science out of a single trip with fairly basic parts:
1) Launch
2) Orbit
3) When in periapsis, prograde burn until you leave Kerbin orbit
4) In solar orbit, do !!SCIENCE!!
5) Burn retrograde, attempt and perhaps fail at getting back to kerbin.


Landings are definitely a whole lot tougher, and parachutes a whole lot less parachutey in this version. Definitely unlock radial parachutes ASAP, or have enough fuel/engines to break the fall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 01:40:20 pm
I haven't had any trouble with chutes. As long as the chute is just holding the pod and maybe a little equipment, it'll usually land fine. I even landed a pod and solid booster... though the booster itself exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 17, 2013, 01:43:41 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 11:22:04 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:10:47 am
As someone just starting out on the career (only have up to the stability tech) what's some good ways to get some science?

I find it's fastest to really really push the boundaries of what you can do with each tech. Your first launch should orbit. Your second launch should fly-by the moon. Your third should land (though mine needed launch 4 because there wasn't enough fuel...)
How could you possibly do that on the early tech? I can still only just push into Kerbin orbit, and then no further. Building larger craft would end up with overengineering problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 01:48:23 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 01:40:20 pm
I haven't had any trouble with chutes. As long as the chute is just holding the pod and maybe a little equipment, it'll usually land fine. I even landed a pod and solid booster... though the booster itself exploded.
You can easily have a pod and Science Jr. land on only a single top-mounted chute.  Hardware-assisted-landings do help.  Having an empty fuel tank or SRB on the bottom of a rocket can break your crash enough that the upper items survive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 17, 2013, 02:02:08 pm
Rescue missions are about 120% more awesome in 0.22.

I have already failed 5 of them. Now Jeb has some company up there on the Mün.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
I noticed that parachute landings sometimes crash your vehicle or break components if you have any time acceleration going on.

Drop to 1x right before chute fully opening, and 1x before touchdown seems to do the trick for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 17, 2013, 02:15:03 pm
Yeah, don't do time arceleration when there're any physics going on. It's just for bland parts of space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 02:19:30 pm
Quote from: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
I noticed that parachute landings sometimes crash your vehicle or break components if you have any time acceleration going on.

Drop to 1x right before chute fully opening, and 1x before touchdown seems to do the trick for me.
As discussed, time warp's purpose is for breaking parts.  There's a reason it's HEAVILY restricted inside atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 17, 2013, 02:22:06 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 02:19:30 pm
Quote from: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
I noticed that parachute landings sometimes crash your vehicle or break components if you have any time acceleration going on.

Drop to 1x right before chute fully opening, and 1x before touchdown seems to do the trick for me.
As discussed, time warp's purpose is for breaking parts.  There's a reason it's HEAVILY restricted inside atmosphere.

rockets breaking = ‼fun‼ /\ time warp = rockets breaking, therefore time warp = ‼fun‼

that or space kraken but that one's supposedly dead?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 02:29:12 pm
The fun of explosions is in the witnessing and the situation.  Simply having your rocket vanish in a puff of smoke isn't fun.  Time warp teaches you nothing about the crash and allows no experimentation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 17, 2013, 03:37:30 pm
Somehow the fact that Girlinhat plays this makes it even more awesome. Also HOLY SHIT CAMPAIGN MODE. I has missed much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 03:52:04 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 02:19:30 pm
Quote from: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
I noticed that parachute landings sometimes crash your vehicle or break components if you have any time acceleration going on.

Drop to 1x right before chute fully opening, and 1x before touchdown seems to do the trick for me.
As discussed, time warp's purpose is for breaking parts.  There's a reason it's HEAVILY restricted inside atmosphere.

Yeah, I see that now.  I was quite saddened when my parachute just blew away instead of opening up to full sail.

Also, the 10 m/s water landing that broke all 6 of the goo canisters attached to my command pod.  Happy birthday to the ocean.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 04:10:37 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 06:55:26 am
I don't think you actually lose any science if you transmit stuff back. Based on what I'm seeing, you've got a number that's the total amount of science a given part can give you for a given location.

Example(numbers might be off slightly, doing it from memory, but the theory is correct as I've watched it happen in several places):

Using the Materials Lab in orbit of the Mun can get you 100 science total. You can use the lab and then return it to Kerbin for all 100 science, or your can transmit for 20% of that, which would be 20 science. The other 80 isn't lost, it's still there since you can transmit again for another 20% of that 80 which gives you 16 science and leaves 64. Transmit again for 20% of that and you get 12.8 science, leaving you 51.2 science. You can keep doing this, shaving 20% off the remaining science each time, for as long as you have power available. Now, if you keep doing it it will inevitably leave you with a small remnant of science, since you can never collect it ALL if you just keep shaving 20% off of it, but if you transmit enough, you can end up with a number of remaining science left that's so small it'd be thrown away by the game anyway when rounding numbers.


It is tedious, requires a lot of clicking and requires some sort of power source to keep your batteries charged through all this inefficient transmitting but you never REALLY lose anything and it allows you to collect the science from multiple places with one vehicle. I just sent a probe to the Mun which got high mun orbit, low mun orbit and landed in a crater on the far side and researched that. With both the materials lab and the goo canister, it was very profitable science wise.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, I have strong suspicions that whatever science you DON"T transmit back in a given mission, can simply be grabbed in a later mission either through return samples or transmission. More tests will have to be done on this though.
If that were the way it worked, then why did I get more science on my second mun flyby with the material bay? I should have gotten all of the science available, no?

I returned the first one to KSP for 100% of the science but 2nd trip out I got more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 04:22:29 pm
I just got the new version. My space program is called IronTomato's !!science!! Bureau.

I also added in my own flag, reading:

MY ASS
KISS IT

I feel accomplished even though I haven't actually done anything yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 04:23:29 pm
[removing accidental doublepost]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 04:24:52 pm
Quote from: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 03:52:04 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 02:19:30 pm
Quote from: Lucidvizion on October 17, 2013, 02:13:14 pm
I noticed that parachute landings sometimes crash your vehicle or break components if you have any time acceleration going on.

Drop to 1x right before chute fully opening, and 1x before touchdown seems to do the trick for me.
As discussed, time warp's purpose is for breaking parts.  There's a reason it's HEAVILY restricted inside atmosphere.

Yeah, I see that now.  I was quite saddened when my parachute just blew away instead of opening up to full sail.

Also, the 10 m/s water landing that broke all 6 of the goo canisters attached to my command pod.  Happy birthday to the ocean.

Yeah, terrain landings are safer... if it's level.

Alternatively, use crumple-zone parts for your ocean landings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 04:40:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 04:10:37 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 06:55:26 am
I don't think you actually lose any science if you transmit stuff back. Based on what I'm seeing, you've got a number that's the total amount of science a given part can give you for a given location.

Example(numbers might be off slightly, doing it from memory, but the theory is correct as I've watched it happen in several places):

Using the Materials Lab in orbit of the Mun can get you 100 science total. You can use the lab and then return it to Kerbin for all 100 science, or your can transmit for 20% of that, which would be 20 science. The other 80 isn't lost, it's still there since you can transmit again for another 20% of that 80 which gives you 16 science and leaves 64. Transmit again for 20% of that and you get 12.8 science, leaving you 51.2 science. You can keep doing this, shaving 20% off the remaining science each time, for as long as you have power available. Now, if you keep doing it it will inevitably leave you with a small remnant of science, since you can never collect it ALL if you just keep shaving 20% off of it, but if you transmit enough, you can end up with a number of remaining science left that's so small it'd be thrown away by the game anyway when rounding numbers.


It is tedious, requires a lot of clicking and requires some sort of power source to keep your batteries charged through all this inefficient transmitting but you never REALLY lose anything and it allows you to collect the science from multiple places with one vehicle. I just sent a probe to the Mun which got high mun orbit, low mun orbit and landed in a crater on the far side and researched that. With both the materials lab and the goo canister, it was very profitable science wise.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, I have strong suspicions that whatever science you DON"T transmit back in a given mission, can simply be grabbed in a later mission either through return samples or transmission. More tests will have to be done on this though.
If that were the way it worked, then why did I get more science on my second mun flyby with the material bay? I should have gotten all of the science available, no?

I returned the first one to KSP for 100% of the science but 2nd trip out I got more.

I haven't figured out the exact math, nor do I expect to on my own before someone else does, but it seems as if on your second and possibly even third flights through an area after cleaning the science out, it loads the area up with just a little bit of science to give you a chance to get something. Once you've cleaned it out multiple times(guess is 3, but number might be different or dependent on something else) you stop getting science. And I'm not sure if it's a pure cleanout rather than a situation where if the science in an area is lower than some threshold, add more science once. If it drops again, add again, but less this time. Again, no serious studies done on this, just guesses from observations.

In other news, I accidentally my whole spaceship and Jeb ended up on the surface of the Mun without one. About 10km up from a landing I hit space one too many times and ended up with a free falling capsule. For a moment I panicked and figured my lead pilot was dead. After regaining my senses I realized I still had a chance with the EVA suit thrusters. It wasn't pretty and I probably could have done it more efficiently but I managed to get Jeb down from 10km and 200 m/s of velocity to a nice soft landing on a crater rim with a whole 2.5% of my fuel left.

This... oddly enough matches up well with a problem I had before. I'd flown another nameless Kerbal to the Mun first, landed successfully, but he managed to kill himself playing around with his own EVA thrusters. So now I have a Kerbal without a rocket, and a rocket without a Kerbal. They just happen to be 1/4 of the moon apart in two completely different large craters.

Lesson learned from this: EVA thrusters are surprisingly powerful? or Don't let Jeb fly alone.




EDIT: Some nice sounding facts and numbers from the official forums.

Quote from: effy from KSP forums
It seems that the reduction of science on repeated experiments is actually different depending on which part is used.

For example 5/9 of the science (recovered or transmitted doesn't matter) you get from the mystery goo gets substracted from the amount you will receive for the same experiment the next time. I shot a capsule with six goo canisters into space an used them all at around the dame time. The science i got from this was: 10.0/4.4/2.0/0.9/0.4/0.2.

As you can see, you can calculate the amount of science for each canister by multiplying the amount from the previous one with 1-5/9=4/9 (numbers in KSP are rounded to one decimal).

Other numbers I found so far for reduction per one point of science:
Crew Report: 5/8
EVA Report: 3/4
Soil Sample: 4/5
Material Studies/Science Jr.: 5/7
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 17, 2013, 04:43:41 pm
Just got over 2000 science from a single mission to Jool. Unfortunately, I got caught in a direct impact course with Laythe while attempting to do a passby for science, and I didn't have enough fuel to get out of it, so I ended up stuck on Jool with 8 dead kerbals (the two full hitchhiker modules I brought were destroyed on impact, along with the 10 solar panels and 4 batteries on each) and Jebediah standing on the floating rocket in the middle of the ocean, unable to get back in or send for help.

It was a good mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 04:43:48 pm
GUYS! THERE IS A RECOVER BUTTON!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 17, 2013, 04:44:40 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 16, 2013, 10:55:36 pm
Goo reports stay in the goo capsule. I haven't transmitted much science wirelessly, I've done it almost entirely through recovery, so iono.

EDIT: I would have liked to know about this a few hours ago (top) (http://i.imgur.com/sLmgA2g.jpg)

yes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 04:45:24 pm
Oh.

I FOUND IT BEFORE THEN.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 04:47:33 pm
Wow, I feel special. That button's one of the few things I figured out really, really quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 04:53:07 pm
I found the update late.
Then my computer was a twit.
Then I screwed around for youtube.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 17, 2013, 05:18:23 pm
a well answered thread from the official forums re: recovery vs transmission and diminishing returns.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53170-Science-Question-When-How-do-diminished-returns-kick-in-with-radio-transmissions (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53170-Science-Question-When-How-do-diminished-returns-kick-in-with-radio-transmissions)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 17, 2013, 05:35:09 pm
Q.E.D.: Spamming science from deep-space probes is a good idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2013, 05:35:17 pm
I think the point value could be tweaked a lot (no matter how many soil samples you "transmit" back, you're still going to get more use out of actually bringing the sample home), but overall, I like the system. I would like an overview of completed experiments, of course, and a few hints at experiments I haven't done yet, but other than that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 17, 2013, 05:35:59 pm
Discovered science is saved in your [KSP path]/saves/[savename]/persistent.sfs file.
Sciences are separated into [sciencetype]@[location]. An example being "mysteryGoo@KerbinInSpaceLow".
Each science you've discovered has whether it's been discovered, the current value per data, the base value per data, the ammount of science you've gained so far from it, and the cap for how much can be gained from it.

Code: [Select]
Science
{
id = mysteryGoo@KerbinInSpaceLow
title = Mystery Goo™ Observation while in space near Kerbin
dsc = 1
scv = 0.1975309
sbv = 1
sci = 14.44444
cap = 18
}

Base value seems to be based on location.
Kerbin on land=0.3
Kerbin in water=0.4
Kerbin in atmosphere=0.7
Kerbin orbit=1
Mun Orbit=3

PS: The "orbit" locations are actually "sphere of influence" locations. Actually being in orbit is not required to do science in those locations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 05:51:47 pm
That can't be totally true.  I know there's differences between 'close' and 'high' orbits...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 17, 2013, 05:52:02 pm
I still wish it was split into "Transmittable data" and "Recover-only data", and clicking "transmit" sends the transmit data and stores the recover data. Everything else can be the same, only being able to save one sample per Kerbal, one crew report, one experiment per container. But splitting them into "Transmit" and "Recover" data makes sense, is easier to figure out what you need to do*, and is how, I think, NASA does it, transmitting the astronauts reports and observations and then when the lander returns home, investigating the samples.

As it is, you have to pick "transmit" or "recover", with weird nonsense math to figure out which is best and getting even more science from doing the same experiment again? I mean that makes sense, more data points are always good, but you'd think it'd be related to whether you transmitted or recovered.

*Watching JefMajor just click transmit -constantly- was painful, then he goes on to say "Well I can't transmit it so I guess I HAVE to recover, that sucks" which just baffled me.




TL; DR: I would prefer if the system was like this: recover/transmit split of data, ex. Out of 10, 4 is transmittable. You transmit 4, it saves 6 for recovery. You recover, you get the remaining 6 for a total of 10. If you don't recover and do the experiment again, you have 6, 0 of which is transmittable, from the original experiment. Doing the experiment after a full recovery gives you a smaller amount of total data, because while it's a reinforcing data point, it isn't a novel experiment, I.E. "We know what happens when this does that, but this second experiment tells us we didn't screw up the first time."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 05:54:42 pm
I has a question. How do you plant your flag once you're on the Mun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 05:55:21 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 05:54:42 pm
I has a question. How do you plant your flag once you're on the Mun?
EVA.  Land and right click your Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 05:57:51 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 05:55:21 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 17, 2013, 05:54:42 pm
I has a question. How do you plant your flag once you're on the Mun?
EVA.  Land and right click your Kerbal.
Thanks. I feel like a tard for not knowing that though. >.<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 17, 2013, 05:59:38 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 05:51:47 pm
That can't be totally true.  I know there's differences between 'close' and 'high' orbits...
They're two different science resources but they have the same base values for gaining science points. There's quite a few under the "Kerbin on land" category.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 06:00:51 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 17, 2013, 05:52:02 pm
-snip-

What about just recovering the data? It sounds like you'll lose out if you don't put an antenna on your ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 06:13:31 pm
I really like the system now that I know you cannot lose out on science. Its never wasted, you simply don't get it all that time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 17, 2013, 06:29:31 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 06:00:51 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 17, 2013, 05:52:02 pm
-snip-

What about just recovering the data? It sounds like you'll lose out if you don't put an antenna on your ship.
Damnit I thought I was being clear with "recover ONLY", as in you can ONLY recover that data. I MEANT it to mean that while you can -only- recover the recover-data, you can transmit or recover the transmit data and get the same amount of that data either way.

Basically, you would be transmitting because you don't think you'll be able to get your probe/ship home in one piece, either by design by sending an un-manned ship out into the kerbol system, or by accident by running out of fuel. That and a precaution, you transmit your data before you land in case you destroy the continers/your capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 06:30:42 pm
Oh. Sorry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 17, 2013, 07:13:35 pm
And even with the new version I continue my trend of being completely unable to get a space plane to orbit, or even to fly high in the atmosphere.
Any tips?
I've tried these things:
Tons of air intake.
Large amounts of thrust.

Does the position of the center of thrust matter?
Are too many intakes a bad thing?
Which jet engines are the best to use and for what?
Should I fit as much lift as humanly possible on a space plane, or will a simply decent amount suffice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Comp112 on October 17, 2013, 07:56:18 pm
As far as I've found, its more proper intake, and a proper gain of altitude that makes or breaks a space plane. Take it up to fast, crash, to slow, same story.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 17, 2013, 08:09:31 pm
I feel like I'm totally ready for a moon mission, but... when the hell do you unlock ladders? You'd think they would come along with landing gear. Without ladders, landing gear is basically useless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 08:12:49 pm
Quote from: Sensei on October 17, 2013, 08:09:31 pm
I feel like I'm totally ready for a moon mission, but... when the hell do you unlock ladders? You'd think they would come along with landing gear. Without ladders, landing gear is basically useless.
On the moon you can get back in your ship using the suit's rcs thrusters. You don't need ladders.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 17, 2013, 08:17:10 pm
Can't seem to be able to get to the mun with enough fuel to land and return. I also regularly end up with very bad inclination. Watched some videos of others doing it and even using their designs I run out of fuel. I suspect I'm losing out because I'm not very efficient. Practice makes perfect I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 08:18:48 pm
Try for minmus first. Its actually easier...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 17, 2013, 08:28:23 pm
Woo.. Probodyne II, my first solar probe, just escaped Kerbin after a close flyby of and slingshot aroun the mun.

It has goo onboard and we are studying the effects of solar radiation on it. SCIENCE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 08:41:10 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on October 17, 2013, 07:13:35 pm
And even with the new version I continue my trend of being completely unable to get a space plane to orbit, or even to fly high in the atmosphere.
Any tips?
I've tried these things:
Tons of air intake.
Large amounts of thrust.

Does the position of the center of thrust matter?
Are too many intakes a bad thing?
Which jet engines are the best to use and for what?
Should I fit as much lift as humanly possible on a space plane, or will a simply decent amount suffice?
Took me a while to figure out aerodynamics at all.  For a spaceplane, you generally want...
Your center of mass near the center.
Your center of thrust in a direct line with your center of mass (forwards or backwards is fine, but if the thrust is above mass, then your craft will end up pointing downwards).
Your center of lift slightly behind your center of mass.

The more wings and thus more lift you have, the easier your ship will fly and the easier it'll move without having to use rockets to simply push through the air - you want a 'powered glide' as your goal.  If your COM is too far forward, you'll flip.  If your COT is off axis of the COM then it'll curve in the opposite direction.  If the COL is forward of the COM then it'll flip.

Spread the landing gears far apart for increased stability and less chance of veering off the runway, as well as an SAS to help prevent veering.

For simple spaceplanes all you want is to go high and fast, you should need minimal control surfaces since you don't intend to actually steer.  Still feel free to stack multiple tail fins or control surfaces to increase your lift in the rear and aid in overall control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 17, 2013, 09:01:03 pm
I keep trying new tech trees (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0) and every time so far I've had Jeb jump out on the first flight to try to get Eva data while falling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 17, 2013, 09:04:06 pm
Thanks for the advice.
A few more questions:
What are Aerospike engines best for?
And do the different types of air intake work differently? For example, the Ram Intake's description mentions best use at high altitudes, I don't remember what the circular intake says.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 09:09:51 pm
Efficiency. Its near NERVA levels but with thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 09:13:35 pm
Aerospike is unique in that it works the same at all altitudes.  So it's an efficient engine that can actually lift you without wasting fuel due to thick atmosphere, and will get you going pretty good speed and fuel economy overall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 09:15:06 pm
Best used in groups of nine where you would put a mainsail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 17, 2013, 09:17:19 pm
More air intakes is mostly good, but you also have to note that they increase drag quite a bit too, so it sometimes is a good idea to have a control button that allows you to toggle most of your intakes to an off position, So you can turn them off on the runway where the air is thick enough to only need one or two, and then turn the extras on when the air gets thinner and yer air intake is getting low.

I often go up as quickly as my plane can take me after liftoff until about 10000 meters or so, and then reduce my angle until I'm gaining only about 10 meters of altitude every second or so.  This keeps the speed steadily increasing as well as your altitude, go up too fast and your engines run out of air because yer not going fast enough to make up for the thinner air, too slow and yer using up fuel. (this method may actually be a bit on the slow side, but it got me into space more often than not)

Depending on your design, up this high you may have to keep your nose up quite a bit higher than your direction of movement, haven't really looked up why, but I figure it's because the thinner air reduces how much lift yer getting from your wings, and yer engines have to keep you up more directly.

As the air gets thinner and thinner there's less drag keeping you from accelerating, and you should eventually reach a speed of about 1000m a second or so.  When you hit that it's almost time to turn on the rockets, try to eek any more speed you possibly can with the air breathing engines.  Then right when you think they are about to cut out, kill the jets, toggle all the air intakes off, kick on the rockets, and pull up for space.  Once yer AP is out of atmosphere, add another 1000m a second to your orbital speed and you should be in orbit.

EDIT: Derp these are in m/sec not km/sec :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 09:20:28 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 17, 2013, 09:17:19 pm
As the air gets thinner and thinner there's less drag keeping you from accelerating, and you should eventually reach a speed of about 1000km a second or so.  When you hit that it's almost time to turn on the rockets, try to eek any more speed you possibly can with the air breathing engines.  Then right when you think they are about to cut out, kill the jets, toggle all the air intakes off, kick on the rockets, and pull up for space.  Ones yer AP is out of atmosphere, add another 1000km a second to your orbital speed and you should be in orbit.
An even better way to do this is to have 1 central turbojet.  You can have others on the wings as well, but a single jet gives you one big advantage.  When you get up to VERY thin atmosphere, cut off any side jets - if they burnout, you'll start spinning - and leave your center jet on as you turn on the main rockets and aim up.  The single jet will eventually flameout, but it won't cause you to spin because it's in the center.  You can turn it off at your leisure later, as you ascend via traditional rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 17, 2013, 09:28:08 pm
Alrighty, thanks again guys. I'll try all this tomorrow when I have.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 17, 2013, 09:34:21 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 09:20:28 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 17, 2013, 09:17:19 pm
As the air gets thinner and thinner there's less drag keeping you from accelerating, and you should eventually reach a speed of about 1000km a second or so.  When you hit that it's almost time to turn on the rockets, try to eek any more speed you possibly can with the air breathing engines.  Then right when you think they are about to cut out, kill the jets, toggle all the air intakes off, kick on the rockets, and pull up for space.  Ones yer AP is out of atmosphere, add another 1000km a second to your orbital speed and you should be in orbit.
An even better way to do this is to have 1 central turbojet.  You can have others on the wings as well, but a single jet gives you one big advantage.  When you get up to VERY thin atmosphere, cut off any side jets - if they burnout, you'll start spinning - and leave your center jet on as you turn on the main rockets and aim up.  The single jet will eventually flameout, but it won't cause you to spin because it's in the center.  You can turn it off at your leisure later, as you ascend via traditional rocket.
There's that too.  Does the jet still use fuel when it's air starved?  I thought they did but I never bothered to actually double check.  Saves the trouble of timing yer engine switch, and I bet a single engine feeding off all the intakes can run at an even higher altitude, especially with rockets increasing the speed.  I'll have to try that next time.

And I missed the intake question, I hear ramjets are the best intakes, but I haven't seen any numbers actually backing that up, so take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 09:36:41 pm
Jets with no air will not burn fuel.

The 'sticky outy' air intakes seem to be the best, especially as they can be mounted radially and don't take up the prime real estate of 'rocket tip'.  The in-line intake is also an interesting one, in cast you just want a smoothly-shaped ship...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 10:50:09 pm
I kind of wish there were other space/airports. It would be kind of nice to have a legitimate reason to build a non-space plane.

They could even tie it into the career as a way to make money when they add that part of the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 17, 2013, 10:51:06 pm
Try heading 120 degrees from the airstrip :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2013, 10:52:33 pm
Yah, theres an airstrip and a launchpad besides yours. Ones fr away, ones a SRB throw away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:04:52 pm
Oh.

That's actually really cool. I wonder what they're planning with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 17, 2013, 11:07:50 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2013, 11:04:52 pm
Oh.

That's actually really cool. I wonder what they're planning with it.
I think it was only ever intended as a target to land on. I wish there were more, if you're trying to explore the world there's not many places to land a plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 11:08:31 pm
Eve. Why you have so much gravity?  >:(
My one man rover is stuck on its back and I broke its home base. RCS is not enough. I had it all prepped for 4 separate data collection sets. I even "rescued" a lost kerbonaut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 17, 2013, 11:10:54 pm
Gravity isn't the problem, the atmosphere is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 11:12:20 pm
Right. Forgot about that. Probably why I neglected to put atmos equipment on the rover. It's a good thing my rescue rocket was unmanned. I guess I can always send another.

I have power still so partial transmissions will have to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:15:52 pm
Let the Rescue Pile commence!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 17, 2013, 11:20:47 pm
So, went to Minmus. Had some unexpected funtimes.
Spoiler: God damnit. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: More balance than a budha (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Then I landed on a mountain (click to show/hide)
See, this is why I have that funny looking reinforced structure up on top. Those structural pieces will pretty much survive any rolling around after landing in non-ideal locations. By using structs like that, you can keep the forces off the science lab, and protect everything by keeping it off the ground. In that last image, the ship landed, tipped over, then rolled down the mountain on its side about 100 meters before coming to a stop. And not a drop of science was lost.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:25:17 pm
Might help if you deployed that landing gear...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 17, 2013, 11:26:13 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:25:17 pm
Might help if you deployed that landing gear...
It was deployed. That was the unexpected funtimes. :P

It was installed upside-down, and so was entirely non-functional. I didn't discover that until about 3km from the surface of Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2013, 11:27:58 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 17, 2013, 11:15:52 pm
Let the Rescue Pile commence!

Broken parts across the solar system! I'm glad I unlocked unmanned stuff. Might put a space station around Eve to listen to the screams. I can build something that mechjeb can fly and it works without cheating fuel. That alone makes me happy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 18, 2013, 01:38:31 am
So I only bought KSP a few days ago and didn't ever manage to land anything on the mun with the demo, but I have to say I am really enjoying the science, it adds roleplay value to every launch, there's more planning now than just what's biggest/gets the most fuel up. I'm playing gradually and gathering science at a crawl, but I'm loving it, each launch I'll try something new, a new component I've never had access to, or a new type of science I've not used yet, or a launch somewhere completely new. I'm not even spending the science I've gathered, because there's so much possibility for different missions even with just the first upgrade.
However I find myself wanting one minor improvement, It would be nice if the science center/R&D had somewhere that listed what science had been collected, so I could see at a glance what data was missing from each body, It would make planning new missions rather easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 18, 2013, 01:38:33 am
At the end of two days, the score is: four probes orbiting Kerbin, only one of which was supposed to be there. There had been only one fatality so far, but it was quickly reverted. The most interesting thing I've accomplished was crashing a probe into the Mun at 90+m/s.

I'm just not getting how to land on the Mun. Any advice on properly transferring orbits, designing landers and not exploding into a firey ball?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 18, 2013, 01:54:35 am
I used Kerbal Engineer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/18230-0-22-Kerbal-Engineer-Redux-v0-6-1-1) flight chip to see the actual distance to the ground instead of the distance to "sea level" that the altimeter shows.

I still bounced around and ended up with my probe on its side, but it still got that data sent home.

If you're similarly bad at sticking the landing as me and want to return your craft you can put landing gear on in such a manner that it will always upright your craft or at least get it off the surface enough to do a skidding start.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 18, 2013, 01:59:42 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 18, 2013, 01:38:33 am
At the end of two days, the score is: four probes orbiting Kerbin, only one of which was supposed to be there. There had been only one fatality so far, but it was quickly reverted. The most interesting thing I've accomplished was crashing a probe into the Mun at 90+m/s.

I'm just not getting how to land on the Mun. Any advice on properly transferring orbits, designing landers and not exploding into a firey ball?
I still can't land on the Mun for my (Kerbal's) life, but I have gotten good at transferring orbits.  First set the Mun as your target.  Shift your apoapsis  to the other side of the ascending node.  Then, about a minute or two before you reach the ascending node, go full burn until you your path intercepts the Mun.   Landing on the Mun... I can't help with that.  Every time I touch the ground the entire lander either explodes or I still have horizontal motion and I can't land properly, tip the lander over, and destroy my any comms I have preventing science from being done. 
It helps if you play around a bit with plotting manuevers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 18, 2013, 02:35:39 am
Here's a trick for Mun landing.

First, you really want to get a direct intersect with the Mun when you leave Kerbin. Orbiting and then landing takes too much fuel, just make sure you're not flying into it head-on (that would take orbiting in the other direction).

Then, when you're in Mun's SOI, zoom in on the bit of your orbit that intersects the Mun's surface, aim as closely as you can and plop a maneuver node down. Now pull the retrograde marker on the node until it won't go no more. You now know how long you have to burn to decelerate for landing, plus/minus some tens of m/s, and how long you have till then. If you already have a landing trajectory, don't waste fuel altering it unless you really want to land somewhere else. Just take note of how long you need to brake, and keep an eye on the approaching node timer. Start decelerating at half thrust when your projected deceleration time and time to node feel near enough, and adjust as you see fit. Since there is no air, the node's data is relatively accurate as long as you don't steer sideways too much, but you should only really use it to know when to start slowing down - once you're past that point it's better to throttle up and remove the node, watching only the retrograde marker, your altitude, and speed. Once you've started slowing down, keeping at around half thrust should ease you into a position where you can make a better decision on how to proceed just by eyeballing the remaining distance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 18, 2013, 02:44:19 am
Even more empiric, at 50000 altitude slow at 500m/s top

At 30000 slow at 300m/s top.

At 15000 slow at 100m/s top

At 10000 slow at 50m/s top

Save

When you are close to the surface (altitude may vary!) drop to 20m/s

When you see the shadow closing drop to 10m/s

When really close maintain 5m/s throttling with the engines.

Protip: keep the nose on your reverse velocity vector, it will magically zero your lateral speed without need for manually messing with rcs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 18, 2013, 04:28:33 am
Minmus really is easier to get to, both for intersect and for return. Try that before the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 18, 2013, 04:29:09 am
Landing, too. And getting off. Minmus is just easier in general.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 18, 2013, 04:30:25 am
The craft I used to barely make it to and back from the mun landed on minus and returned with enough Dv to orbit kerbin and choose a nice landing site. Its eazymode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 18, 2013, 07:03:10 am
Bill had a harrowing experience recently. Landed on the Mun, took some samples and stuff but decided to head up and land in a crater. Sampled again and took off. He realized too late that he didn't have enough fuel to make orbit. Turn on all RCS thrusters! Thrusting his way out of Mun's SOI and into a Kerbin orbit he thought he was safe. But NO! RCS fuel is all gone. He had no other choice.

KERBAL POWER.

He ditched as much mass as possible and suited up. Science had provided him infinite RCS in a bottle and by Science he would reach Kerbin's atmosphere. After multiple attempts blasting the rear with RCS he lowered his periapsis to 40 km from 1.1 Mm. Finally he could return home and let Jebediah do the flying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 07:39:28 am
Landing is pretty easy when you realize two things.  You want to come in as shallow as possible, skimming over the surface rather than diving straight down.  And you want to burn retrograde.  The basic rule for burning is to get to a reasonably low speed, such that your engine could prevent you from crashing, and then wait to about 500m before you use a 'suicide burn' to kill as much velocity as possible - make sure you're going slow enough that you can actually make the stop!

Performing this in capsule view can be easiest.  The "radar altimeter" in the lower right is more accurate to the actual surface level, and the navball and speed are right beside it.  Just ease it down to less than 1 m/s when under 100m.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 18, 2013, 07:46:56 am
Actually, skimming across the ground and going straight down use the same amount of fuel from orbit.

They only make a difference in atmo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 18, 2013, 08:22:14 am
I landed Jeb on Minmus, and by land I mean crash. He survived, but was stuck. So I planted a flag and used what remaned of the rocket to do science and transmit it back until the battery died.

I sent a rescue party a fair time later after getting better parts, and actually managed to land near the flag he placed. I couldnt find him anywhere.

Then I realised that I had landed next to the flag he placed on the Mun. I landed on the wrong moon...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 08:24:52 am
This is because Bill was piloting.  Jeb would have landed on the right moon.  Jeb would have landed on every moon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 18, 2013, 08:58:30 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 08:24:52 am
This is because Bill was piloting.  Jeb would have landed on the right moon.  Jeb would have landed on every moon.
(Removes hat)

He was a good Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 09:02:25 am
I'm actually in danger of losing my Jeb.  I'm making a return from Eeloo with only 1,000-ish Dv remaining...  Gonna take about 300 to change inclination, gonna hope the other 700 can get me into a VERY harsh approach...  Not gonna bother with changing orbits or anything.  Just gonna make a straight dive out of high solar orbit and slam into the atmosphere at... probably something like 8,000 km/h.

Goddammit Jeb...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 18, 2013, 09:04:09 am
He's not dead yet!

<enter Bob Kerman>

*fanfare*



So why is Minmus so much easier? Less gravity?

Also, another really important thing is that once you get to space/orbit, you want to definitely be using the more efficient engines. Look for the engines with the most ISP, which essentially stands for efficiency. These will have less power, but they will produce more acceleration for the same amount of fuel. Longer burns, but less fuel burnt total.

Make sure to have enough of them for landing though, 'cause they're difficult to stop. I had a fairly heavy rover once, and very little fuel with which to land. I think I must've tried to land it, oh, about 20-odd times before it finally worked. But worked it did... can't say I had much fuel left though (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/597017099946509160/E04E3ECC00490297014366F3A1C3E252EDBFA0D5/)!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 09:10:59 am
Minmus has a lot less gravity.  You can achieve escape velocity with just your EVA suit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 09:32:19 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 09:02:25 am
I'm actually in danger of losing my Jeb.  I'm making a return from Eeloo with only 1,000-ish Dv remaining...  Gonna take about 300 to change inclination, gonna hope the other 700 can get me into a VERY harsh approach...  Not gonna bother with changing orbits or anything.  Just gonna make a straight dive out of high solar orbit and slam into the atmosphere at... probably something like 8,000 km/h.

Goddammit Jeb...
I misjudged my speed.  Solar Peri was about 1,200 km/s and Kerbin Peri was 65km (by choice) and about 4,500 km/s.  This was not enough to aerobrake, and I escaped orbit with no fuel left.  Jebediah is now floating in solar orbit, waiting for a lucky Kerbin intercept with his parachutes out.

I assume he's spending this time dancing and thinking about how Bill has sabotaged him...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 18, 2013, 10:00:58 am
Now it's time for me to ask for some advice.  Since it seems other people don't have an issue with this.

How the heck do you land where you intend to?  I set up maneuvers so that it looks like I'll land in the kerbin desert, intentionally overshooting a little figuring the atmosphere will slow me down a bit and I still missed the desert by miles.  I can aim a node to drop me someplace, wait a couple minutes and look at it again and it's miles off.

It seems like I would have no chance of ever sending a rescue mission anywhere if I can't even hit a thousand mile wide desert.  What is your secret?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 10:02:08 am
Overshoot alot.  It's not just air resistance, it's also the planet's rotation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 18, 2013, 10:04:21 am
Of course...rotation.  That explains why where the nodes say they drop me is always heading west.  I feel like an idiot now :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 10:05:35 am
Mechjeb also has a landing autopilot, for landing at a position and for doing the actual slowing burns.  You can enable landing markers and then fly manually to get an idea of how rotation and airbrakes work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 18, 2013, 10:18:26 am
So I shot another probe at Eve, this time with parachutes.
One problem though, I attached the parachutes to the probe itself, which meant it was violently ripped off when the parachutes deployed! The rest of the craft landed perfectly though... just minus the actual probe.

Damn you Eve, eater of probes!


It did net me 400 science from all the transmitting I had done in orbit and the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 10:18:45 am
I too would suggest mechjeb so it can lead by example.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 18, 2013, 11:38:44 am
hold on a sec

mechjeb is released for 0.22 somewhere?

goddamnit i were doing all this stuff i weren't used to by hand while i could have mechjeb crashing me into the mun by now
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 11:39:09 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 18, 2013, 11:38:44 am
hold on a sec

mechjeb is released for 0.22 somewhere?

goddamnit i were doing all this stuff i weren't used to by hand while i could have mechjeb crashing me into the mun by now

Here: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/
Install the zip. The dll is for updates only as the part has not changed in a long time.

You can also alter the old .21 version by hand.


I need a redesign now because of couplers going 1 to 3 to 3 to 1. Or more space tape. MOAR SPACE TAPE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 18, 2013, 12:25:36 pm
I wanted to explore the new science compound.  But walking was so slow and I didn't have rover parts unlocked.

So I made do with what I had.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If this dosn't give me a scholorship to the Wile-E Cyote school of vheicle design I don't know what will.

You need to apply full brakes and use the reaction wheel to add extra weight to one side's brakes to turn, it moves by powering the engine up to 10% in short bursts.  It is actually capable of becoming airborne...once... if full power is applied.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 18, 2013, 01:21:02 pm
Everything is air-droppable at least once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 18, 2013, 02:41:16 pm
I finally had some time to play the update (babies eat your time like nothing else).  I love having an actual objective!  I switched to Windows to play it (normally I'd use Linux, but the stupid framerate issues are annoying).

Got myself in a flyby of Mun after I unlocked the smaller, higher-Isp rocket.  I then realized what gravity assist really means when I saw that by going within 5000 km of the Mun's surface, I'd be escaping Kerbin orbit.  Managed to burn enough to get myself going back to Kerbin, and entered the atmosphere at 3000 m/s.  Fortunately it was a narrow entry angle, so it survived.  I managed to get within a few meters of the surface with a powered descent, (I wanted to do a little more science from wherever I touched down).  Then I got sticky-keys'd and remembered one of the many reasons I hate Windows.

My rocket survived, but it fell over, so I didn't get to do the extra science.  Oh well.  Later I used the exact same rocket design to land on Minimus.

EDIT: Also, if you're like me, some of you may not have realized that debris is disabled in map view by default now.  If you enable it, you can switch to and recover any debris that's sitting on Kerbin.  I got a little extra science when I did this because one of my goo pods apparently fell off when my rocket fell over, and I never realized I had left it behind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 02:44:46 pm
The closer you get to the target of your gravity assist, the better the effect.  I usually try and pass within 10km of Mun surface to get maximum effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 18, 2013, 02:45:43 pm
Isent it normally not all that worth it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 18, 2013, 02:49:29 pm
For the effort to get to Munar orbit, you can achieve escape velocity from Kerbin.  It's ~860 Dv to get to Mun intercept, but ~1,120 Dv.  That alone is 300Dv you can save.

Do this multiple times trying to get more velocity, you can get some strong speed with proper use of gravity and patience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 03:11:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This little probe can deorbit from 100km above Kerbin with 6.02/10 fuel still in it. It's intended for a space station around Duna. The only thing missing is RCS to transfer from the solar arm that's also going out on this trip. I don't have ion unlocked yet. Of course it's no good for anything without atmosphere.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It sucks that attaching things by clampotron in VAB is so wonky/doesn't work. Rotating the Science Jr. also sucks if you want it aligned to a decoupler.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 18, 2013, 03:16:23 pm
Wow, Kethane, KAS, and Mechjeb are already available for 0.22.  I'll be adding those back in when I get time to play this weekend.  I enjoy doing stuff to the two Kerbin moons manually but I use Mechjeb to plan my interplanetary jaunts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 18, 2013, 03:24:02 pm
Ye gods I suck at this game so hard. Does having multiples of the same science modules yield extra science at all? That way I could at least have a semi-balanced probe...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 03:27:33 pm
Quote from: Chattox on October 18, 2013, 03:24:02 pm
Ye gods I suck at this game so hard. Does having multiples of the same science modules yield extra science at all? That way I could at least have a semi-balanced probe...

Each module can be used in different locations, but multiple scans of the same location won't really help you. SO. If you make a buggy and drive to different locations with unique science with the intent to recover them, use more than one of the same science module.

I have never used kethane. I guess now is as good a time as any.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 18, 2013, 03:44:02 pm
I've found this map very helpful for planning my missions. Its not 100% accurate as that depends on how efficient you are, but it gives a good rough guide.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/33428-How-to-get-to-the-mun-and-back-(SIMPLE-TUTORIAL)-Not-Completed-Yet!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silent_Thunder on October 18, 2013, 03:44:49 pm
Quote from: Chattox on October 18, 2013, 03:24:02 pm
Does having multiples of the same science modules yield extra science at all? That way I could at least have a semi-balanced probe...

Yes, but there are diminishing returns. After a few times you get 0 science from repeating a particular experiment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 18, 2013, 03:49:06 pm
So... Im using FAR and I can't seem to close the windows, how do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 18, 2013, 03:58:07 pm
Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on October 18, 2013, 03:49:06 pm
So... Im using FAR and I can't seem to close the windows, how do?
Can't close them completely, but you can minimize them by clicking on the header button (it's right above the window itself). If you can't see the button you'll need to drag the window down first.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eclectic Wizard on October 18, 2013, 04:09:52 pm
Isnt it kinda impossible to play KSP science mode with FAR? I mean, without fins..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 18, 2013, 04:25:36 pm
Has anyone else been getting a bug where when you go EVA, your kerbal flops through the ground and then your screen goes black, your altimeter spazzes out, and the game crashes? It's really ticking me off, landed on the Mun ready to bring back a ton of Science and then that happened.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 18, 2013, 04:28:56 pm
Quote from: Sensei on October 18, 2013, 04:25:36 pm
Has anyone else been getting a bug where when you go EVA, your kerbal flops through the ground and then your screen goes black, your altimeter spazzes out, and the game crashes? It's really ticking me off, landed on the Mun ready to bring back a ton of Science and then that happened.
I had that too. To I intentionally ascribed it to the fact that Bill smashed into the ocean at Mach 5 (approx). But yeah, the altimeter changed to 500 meters, Bill got stuck in the bottom of the ocean, and the altimeter slowly counted down to 0. It crashed when I pressed recover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 18, 2013, 04:36:48 pm
You can knock flags over, and pick them back up. Never had that bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 18, 2013, 04:37:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 03:27:33 pm
Quote from: Chattox on October 18, 2013, 03:24:02 pm
Ye gods I suck at this game so hard. Does having multiples of the same science modules yield extra science at all? That way I could at least have a semi-balanced probe...

Each module can be used in different locations, but multiple scans of the same location won't really help you. SO.
Having multiples on a craft you're planning on recovering does allow you to return more than a single part would, but each extra part returns less than the previous. I put 3 of each module on my returning craft.

If you're transmitting instead of recovering you can design your probe with the goo canister at the very front to make it balanced without adding the mass of an extra container.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ulj6tuhs.png) (http://imgur.com/Ulj6tuh.png)


Use X to set it to two way symmetry and get the two instances inside of each other then press Shift+X to set it to nonsymetric and add the part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 18, 2013, 04:41:34 pm
Having multiple containers of goo is still useful, though. You can open each one at a different altitude in order to bring back the data from all of them, instead of one location each flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 18, 2013, 04:42:51 pm
I just go with a bunch of them on the side of my ship. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 18, 2013, 04:48:21 pm
What now, Mun?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Landing without the lander struts was really hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 04:51:22 pm
EDIT 2: Derp, I'm an idiot. Sub assemblies work with old files. But I found a way to turn Sandbox games into Career games with a full working tech tree and progression if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 18, 2013, 04:59:47 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 04:51:22 pm
Alright, when I started 0.22 up for the first time, I was pretty annoyed because the feature I was looking forward to the most, sub-assemblies, was unavailable in old saves. I did some testing, and messing around with the save files, and discovered it's not an issue with old saves, it's an issue with sandbox. You can't use sub-assemblies at all in sandbox, which IMO is a horrible design decision. Luckily, if you want to use sub-assemblies in an old save file, or any sandbox file, looking at the save file it looks like you can just change MODE = 0 to MODE = 1 at the top of your save file. Not sure if this breaks anything yet, but I'll let people know if it works/blows up the galaxy.
Please check whatever you're smoking for impurities and look again. Subassemblies work perfectly fine in sandbox.

Make sure you're not checking for subassemblies prior to selecting a pod for a new craft, because the tab does not become active until you have something in the editor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 05:04:16 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 18, 2013, 04:59:47 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 04:51:22 pm
Alright, when I started 0.22 up for the first time, I was pretty annoyed because the feature I was looking forward to the most, sub-assemblies, was unavailable in old saves. I did some testing, and messing around with the save files, and discovered it's not an issue with old saves, it's an issue with sandbox. You can't use sub-assemblies at all in sandbox, which IMO is a horrible design decision. Luckily, if you want to use sub-assemblies in an old save file, or any sandbox file, looking at the save file it looks like you can just change MODE = 0 to MODE = 1 at the top of your save file. Not sure if this breaks anything yet, but I'll let people know if it works/blows up the galaxy.
Please check whatever you're smoking for impurities and look again. Subassemblies work perfectly fine in sandbox.

Make sure you're not checking for subassemblies prior to selecting a pod for a new craft, because the tab does not become active until you have something in the editor.

I'd opened the wrong files, and only realized that after the fact :P Sub assemblies work with old saves too, who would know. I did learn a fair bit by messing with the save files though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 18, 2013, 05:25:04 pm
I need help. I really suck at making rendezvous with objects already in orbit. Is there any vanilla way to figure out how to do an intercept, and if not, are there any mods that can do that without adding too much other stuff I won't use?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 05:43:16 pm
Well there's Mechjeb. I've never used it, but from what I hear, it works well for that sort of thing. For me, I try to launch when the object you're going to is near, then stabilizing your orbit along the lines of the object (maneuver nodes work well for this). From there, it's just a matter of using small adjustments to bring yourself closer and closer, then using small engines or RCS once you get within 10km or so to dock with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 18, 2013, 05:43:39 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 18, 2013, 05:25:04 pm
I need help. I really suck at making rendezvous with objects already in orbit. Is there any vanilla way to figure out how to do an intercept, and if not, are there any mods that can do that without adding too much other stuff I won't use?
I also have this issue. DAMN YOU SPACE STATIONS! YOUR SECRET ELUDES ME!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 18, 2013, 05:48:33 pm
The wiki may also help here, particularly the section on docking and rendezvous. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Basic_Maneuvers#Docking_.2F_Rendezvous)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 05:53:57 pm
Okay. Finally in orbit around Duna. Now let's rendezvous with the space station. Hey, why are you orbiting in the opposite direction?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on October 18, 2013, 07:44:01 pm
Just completed a Duna mission, complete with an orbit around Ike! Wasn't set up for landing, but hey, I managed to get back to Kerbin with just 10 liters of fuel left, not too shabby! (Landed with a deep aerobraking maneuver, of course!)


I'm especially excited because this is only my second interplanetary trip EVER, as well as my first unassisted trip(using mechjeb)

I also netted over 800 science this mission! Next stop, EVE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 18, 2013, 07:45:16 pm
Starting a new career mode using the mission controller extended mod, the achievements mod (which give a small (5) science amount on each achievement and nice goals) and the new novapunch mod which now has its parts added to the tech tree.

All sorts of new things to play with!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 18, 2013, 07:58:38 pm
I am now in the incredibly stupid situation that Bob is stuck on Eve because he can't get up....Ok this is starting to sound like a porno...wow. Well, a very bad porno. Featuring erectile dysfunction.


But yeah, can't reach the crew hatch. Its literally smacking him in the head. He can't jump up and grab, nope. ALL MY SCIENCE IS RUINED.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
I'm really hating Duna but not as much as I would without mechjeb. 1 year is not an uncommon wait just to get a transfer window.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 18, 2013, 08:55:39 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
I'm really hating Duna but not as much as I would without mechjeb. 1 year is not an uncommon wait just to get a transfer window.
Pfft, I just did an eve and back (no landing, just a flyby); the mission took over 4 years. I really should have just burned directly to it though, as I ended up with over 3 of the large narrow tanks entirely full of fuel which just got dropped on Kerbin at the end...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 18, 2013, 08:59:21 pm
It really changes the game when you have to worry about casualties. This mission controller pack makes you pay when you don't bring someone back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 18, 2013, 09:05:15 pm
Just got into orbit around Minimus, but it's a polar orbit. Not sure if I've the fuel to get back either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 09:27:53 pm
Quote from: alway on October 18, 2013, 08:55:39 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 18, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
I'm really hating Duna but not as much as I would without mechjeb. 1 year is not an uncommon wait just to get a transfer window.
Pfft, I just did an eve and back (no landing, just a flyby); the mission took over 4 years. I really should have just burned directly to it though, as I ended up with over 3 of the large narrow tanks entirely full of fuel which just got dropped on Kerbin at the end...

Eve in 150 days.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 18, 2013, 09:45:12 pm
Sean Mirrsen, LoSboccacc. Thank you. I landed on the Mun. And only lost a leg and the engine! No return, but it's only .1 science anyway!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 18, 2013, 09:47:46 pm
New goal: Achieve low sun orbit and see what !SCIENCE! awaits there.

EDIT: aaaand succeeded. Now to get back O.o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 19, 2013, 12:12:20 am
I've started the training missions, and have blown up several lunar landers, as well as sent many kerbals off into space in botched EVA's.
I'm sure I'll get the hang of landings but jetpack control still eludes me, it seems that w and s sometimes cause thrust towards or away from the camera, but sometimes don't, sometimes the camera or the EVAing kerbal recenter, sometimes it doesn't. I'm throughly confused.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 12:17:01 am
I forgot about debris. 51 whole pieces made of several parts. No wonder things are slowing down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 19, 2013, 12:53:45 am
So, started planning a Jool science mission. Got a new class of ship, the Longhaul Freighter Mk3. A basic design based on the typical small freighter design from space games, loaded up with large quantities of science modules.

Spoiler: Like so (click to show/hide)
Each of those 8 science modules has 1 crew capsule, 2 jr science, 12 goos, 2 of each: grav, pressure, temp, seismometer, 4 small flat solar panels, 4x400 batteries, and a docking port on either end. Which over all adds up to approximately 1 metric shitton of science potential.

Basic idea behind it is to send these sorts of craft, then assemble the science vessel on site, reducing the amount of fuel needed (any extra just goes into the next craft), and more importantly, requiring only 1 craft to be steered into the proper trajectory. When the science vessels are done, the full modules are to be re-loaded onto the freighter, then all hauled back to Kerbin orbit for planetside delivery.

Can't wait to see how badly I screw this up. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 19, 2013, 02:22:22 am
Man, I can barely get into orbit with the parts I have unlocked, and have exhausted all the science I can get to easily. How can I progress from here? Apart from sucking less, obviously
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 19, 2013, 02:46:59 am
Quote from: Chattox on October 19, 2013, 02:22:22 am
Man, I can barely get into orbit with the parts I have unlocked, and have exhausted all the science I can get to easily. How can I progress from here? Apart from sucking less, obviously
Have you tried taking ground samples and EVA reports of various locations near KSP. They're worth quite a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 19, 2013, 03:37:19 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 18, 2013, 04:25:36 pm
Has anyone else been getting a bug where when you go EVA, your kerbal flops through the ground and then your screen goes black, your altimeter spazzes out, and the game crashes? It's really ticking me off, landed on the Mun ready to bring back a ton of Science and then that happened.

It's called the Hell Kraken! Did your altimeter go to 666.666?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 19, 2013, 03:39:37 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 19, 2013, 02:46:59 am
Have you tried taking ground samples and EVA reports of various locations near KSP. They're worth quite a bit.

I had not! Thankyou!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 19, 2013, 04:13:20 am
Time for my first Duna return mission.
I tried a bunch of design, but like many times before i just went "screw this" and made it asparagus:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Bye Kerbin!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hey Duna!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I aero braked to a good orbit and left the transfer stage in orbit.

I landed with parachutes, but the stupid wobbly legs made it tip over, so I took off and tried again. It did cost me 3 whole droptanks worth of fuel.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Greetings from Duna!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What the! the big capsule can only bring one soil sample!?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Blastoff!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After docking with the transfer stage, our brave trio heads home

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Damn oceans kept getting in the way, so I aimed for the north pole:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Success!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

!!SCIENCE!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I got about 400 extra science from transmitted crew reports, bringing the total tally to about 2k science!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 19, 2013, 04:51:57 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 18, 2013, 07:58:38 pm
I am now in the incredibly stupid situation that Bob is stuck on Eve because he can't get up....Ok this is starting to sound like a porno...wow. Well, a very bad porno. Featuring erectile dysfunction.


But yeah, can't reach the crew hatch. Its literally smacking him in the head. He can't jump up and grab, nope. ALL MY SCIENCE IS RUINED.

Unless you have a really beefy ship, you are not taking off from Eve anyways.
Eve has almost the same gravity as Kerbin, but a HUGE atmosphere.

I am sticking to sending probes to Eve
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 19, 2013, 05:02:07 am
I have heard there was a recent, huge update to KSP...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 19, 2013, 05:13:29 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 19, 2013, 05:02:07 am
I have heard there was a recent, huge update to KSP...
Aside from 0.22 (Which added career mode), you mean?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 05:21:01 am
i still have a profound dislike for the fact that struts are apparently a high-tech good now

i mean for me they're as basic when the lore is involved as the first liquid engine

game balance and all that, not being able to put together insane rockets on the first day and all that...

/me grumbles, diving into the game files with a typewriter in hand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 06:01:45 am
You can put together insane rockets on the first day, without struts.

You'd just have to be insane to fly them. ^_^

In other news, I momentarily reinstalled FAR to see if I can make a little SSTO plane.

Spoiler: Jeb's expression says it all (click to show/hide)

Apparently not. >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 19, 2013, 06:07:10 am
What is FAR?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 19, 2013, 06:09:39 am
Quote from: Dutchling on October 19, 2013, 06:07:10 am
What is FAR?
Ferram Aerospace something. It updates the aerodynamics to be better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 19, 2013, 06:10:46 am
That doesn't sound fun to me o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 06:19:00 am
I spy ponies on Sean's desktop.  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 06:20:10 am
It's quite more difficult to make well-flying planes with, that's for sure. But if you want an added challenge it's good. Plus it makes rockets more efficient since the updated drag model actually accounts for parts being protected from the airstream.

edit:
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 06:19:00 am
I spy ponies on Sean's desktop.  :o
Do you spy the link in my sig? ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 06:22:05 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 06:20:10 am
edit:
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 06:19:00 am
I spy ponies on Sean's desktop.  :o
Do you spy the link in my sig? ;)

you want everyone to know you discontinue things

i for one sweep them under the rug and hope nobody cares to remember
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 10:37:17 am
Anyone have a good relatively up to date mod for building ships with "parts/resources" in orbit or otherwise outside of Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 10:46:55 am
KAS works for small-scale building, though you still need to haul the weight up. Otherwise, I think there's Extraplanetary Launchpads. Similar to Kethane, except you scan and mine for ore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 19, 2013, 10:49:19 am
So I made my first trip to minimus. I ran out of fuel on the way back, so I get out and push, since I have no antennae.

Then this happens:

(http://i.imgur.com/gD5BjfFl.png) (http://imgur.com/gD5BjfF)

I feel such joy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 01:02:42 pm
you know, doing a hohmann transfer by hand while messing about with interplanetary stuff makes me think one thing in particular

we're going to need a bigger warp

i've got a year and half of waiting left until i can apply 12 m/s to crash into kerbin gloriously. the science best be worth it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 19, 2013, 01:25:57 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 01:02:42 pm
you know, doing a hohmann transfer by hand while messing about with interplanetary stuff makes me think one thing in particular

we're going to need a bigger warp

i've got a year and half of waiting left until i can apply 12 m/s to crash into kerbin gloriously. the science best be worth it
Along with that, they need to fix the bug that let's you go straight through a planet on the highest warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 02:07:12 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 01:02:42 pm
you know, doing a hohmann transfer by hand while messing about with interplanetary stuff makes me think one thing in particular

we're going to need a bigger warp

i've got a year and half of waiting left until i can apply 12 m/s to crash into kerbin gloriously. the science best be worth it

You can go back to kerbin central and max your warp. 1.5 years goes by at a reasonable pace.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2013, 02:16:18 pm
or do another mission in the meanwhile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 02:29:45 pm
Beep beep. Space trucker, coming through.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's your delivery. Sign here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 19, 2013, 02:35:14 pm
Today I learned that water landings are not good for science.
I lost a material bay and 75 science points :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 02:40:47 pm
This is why you always transmit. ALWAYS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 02:43:18 pm
I flew a little SSTS (single-stage to sub-orbit) craft with FAR and Deadly Reentry installed today.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spaceplanes in general are quite Fun with FAR. Spaceflight in general is Fun with Deadly Reentry.

Combining both is Fun indeed.
Though I avoided most of the trouble since I was suborbital, and without much altitude (only some 90Km or so), the reentry still burned off one of my emergency parachutes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jeb made it though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Kinda landed into a hill and lost most of the plane's rear, but hey! Any landing you can walk away from... :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 19, 2013, 02:47:27 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on October 19, 2013, 02:35:14 pm
Today I learned that water landings are not good for science.
I lost a material bay and 75 science points :'(
I'm actually usually ok with that- at the very least, if I only have one materials bay a regular parachute is enough. Heck, two radial parachutes seems to be enough for three bays- they might break off, but they won't get destroyed so they're still recoverable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 02:59:06 pm
welp

nothing is better than flying to low duna orbit and back with a ridiculously oversized probe, getting a flyby of ike on the way and 8 material bays/8 goo canisters worth of grade-a science just to land on a seemingly flat coastline which made your ship, otherwise safely equipped with a dozen radial parachutes and four regular ones, flip over and smash itself to pieces in a masterpiece which, i assume, was commented with a solitary "fuck" at the command center

time to build it harder, link the struts better, learn how to do maneuvers faster and make the engines stronger for the work of a kerbal is never over
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 19, 2013, 03:09:19 pm
it is kind of terrible how parachutes disappear as soon as you touch/splash down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 19, 2013, 03:30:17 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 02:59:06 pm
welp

nothing is better than flying to low duna orbit and back with a ridiculously oversized probe, getting a flyby of ike on the way and 8 material bays/8 goo canisters worth of grade-a science just to land on a seemingly flat coastline which made your ship, otherwise safely equipped with a dozen radial parachutes and four regular ones, flip over and smash itself to pieces in a masterpiece which, i assume, was commented with a solitary "fuck" at the command center

time to build it harder, link the struts better, learn how to do maneuvers faster and make the engines stronger for the work of a kerbal is never over

My solution? aim for the poles! They don't have stupid water rotating on them.


Another more mathy solution is when you are inbound and know where you will land, but don't know if it will be over ocean:
A Kerbal day is 6 hours, so timewarp until your are a multiplication of 6 hours away(check the time by adding a maneuver node to the point of impact). Now you are looking at how Kerbin will be oriented every six hours from now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 19, 2013, 03:43:46 pm
I'm trying to build a superheavy rocket that can launch at least one big orange fuel tank into space, but despite all my precautions, the upper stage keeps falling off the rocket on the launchpad. Is there anything I can do to fix it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 03:47:02 pm
you need more struts.

that or a liberal application of these fancy launchpad stability enhancers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on October 19, 2013, 03:49:41 pm
Replace the orange tank with two of the smaller tanks (which add up to the size of the orange tank). Due to the orange tank's size, it's very unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 03:51:08 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 19, 2013, 03:09:19 pm
it is kind of terrible how parachutes disappear as soon as you touch/splash down.
Aestetically, or functionally? Because you can go EVA and repack them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 19, 2013, 04:19:26 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on October 19, 2013, 03:43:46 pm
I'm trying to build a superheavy rocket that can launch at least one big orange fuel tank into space, but despite all my precautions, the upper stage keeps falling off the rocket on the launchpad. Is there anything I can do to fix it?

What does it say about me, that I recently put 7 full orange tanks into orbit and was disappointed?


But yeah, more struts and more asparagus. The way KSP works is that a tall rocket is a bad rocket, you wonna model your designs after pancakes with one of those waffle sticks sticking up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 19, 2013, 05:00:32 pm
Wow. Science.

I was really starved for more science, as the only thing I could do was orbiting Kerbin (crewed) or orbit Mun (probe). I then decided to take some ground samples near the launch pad. +50 science. Enough to get me solar panels.

One powered probe flight later and I have almost 1k science o.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Yeah just landing people around kerbin can give you a lot. I wonder if you get bonus science for experiments done near anomalies...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 05:08:51 pm
Tall and thin is bad, short and fat is also bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on October 19, 2013, 05:32:41 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Yeah just landing people around kerbin can give you a lot. I wonder if you get bonus science for experiments done near anomalies...
Landing at the ice caps definitely give a nice bit of science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jakeread1 on October 19, 2013, 05:35:28 pm
Anyone know whether the devs are planning to add a way to build colonies on planets, that'd be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 05:40:09 pm
Well, resources are coming soon, perhaps next update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 05:40:49 pm
Quote from: jakeread1 on October 19, 2013, 05:35:28 pm
Anyone know whether the devs are planning to add a way to build colonies on planets, that'd be pretty cool.
People are already doing this, there's just currently no real point unless you add one of the mods that put in some resources.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 19, 2013, 05:43:28 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Yeah just landing people around kerbin can give you a lot. I wonder if you get bonus science for experiments done near anomalies...
I wonder as well. kraken sample anyone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 05:46:30 pm
I dont think thats how it works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 05:49:18 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 05:46:30 pm
I dont think thats how it works.
Have you tried? You get different science depending on what biome you're in on kerbin, after all. Maybe they made small 'biomes' around the anomalies?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 19, 2013, 06:08:04 pm
I think the official statement has been that there are currently no biome maps for anywhere except the Mun and Kerbin, but that they will be added at some point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 06:08:56 pm
Quote from: sluissa on October 19, 2013, 06:08:04 pm
I think the official statement has been that there are currently no biome maps for anywhere except the Mun and Kerbin, but that they will be added at some point.
Okay.. but there are anomalies on the mun and on kerbin.

I need to go find one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2013, 06:41:41 pm
lot of fun in gathering science.

currently testing my flying science lab
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

but I had to land halfway trough the pole for a quick nap.

I need to bring one of those to Laythe, somehow. is there a way to simulate flying there on kerbin? like, an altitude map or something at which flying matches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 19, 2013, 06:46:23 pm
Layhe has an atmosphere that can be used by airbreathing engines.  So, you can fly with some differences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2013, 06:56:34 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 19, 2013, 06:46:23 pm
Layhe has an atmosphere that can be used by airbreathing engines.  So, you can fly with some differences.
This is one reason I love the thermal turbojet from KSP Interstellar. You can strap a nuclear reactor to it and fly in any atmosphere so long as you have sufficient lift and thrust. It doesn't need to be an oxy atmosphere since it just heats the air and shoots it out the back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 08:12:43 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 19, 2013, 02:59:06 pm
welp

nothing is better than flying to low duna orbit and back with a ridiculously oversized probe, getting a flyby of ike on the way and 8 material bays/8 goo canisters worth of grade-a science just to land on a seemingly flat coastline which made your ship, otherwise safely equipped with a dozen radial parachutes and four regular ones, flip over and smash itself to pieces in a masterpiece which, i assume, was commented with a solitary "fuck" at the command center

time to build it harder, link the struts better, learn how to do maneuvers faster and make the engines stronger for the work of a kerbal is never over

Space Tape! Space tape everything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 19, 2013, 08:54:29 pm
I just did a manned flyby of Duna. I was short on fuel on the way back, so I didn't have enough to complete Kerbin orbit for safe re-entry. Fortunately, I don't like to do things safely anyway. I ended up simply burning to the left to turn my flight path onto Kerbin, and entered the atmosphere at approximately mach 12. In the end everything was OK.

This game makes for almost as awesome stories as DF.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 19, 2013, 09:24:46 pm
Sent a science mission to Eve for a landing and transmitting mission (went once before with a simple orbital slingshot). First, I landed on Gilly, scienced the crap out of it. Then, an Eve landing. That single mission netted me 3500 science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 19, 2013, 09:28:23 pm
So, after last time's failed munar landing attempt/successful munar space-diving attempt, one of my nameless Kermans(I really should remember his name as he's racked up some pretty impressive achievements at this point) managed to land and return from both the Mun and Minmus.

Jeb is still stranded on the Mun. A rescue attempt was hatched using a two part ship launched and rendezvoused in LKO. One was a three seat capsule with a small engine, fuel tank and solar panels to ferry a tiny one person, autonomous lander to the Mun. Fuel was sufficient to get to the Mun but not back, and the Lander suffered the same fate, landing a fair 2 km from Jebediah but not retaining enough fuel to get back into Munar orbit. At the very least Jeb now has a small apartment to wait out rescue in along with some scientific equipment and a radio antenna. His stay on the Mun, I think, just got extended

I now have to figure out someway to refuel Bill's ship after he got stranded in munar orbit after ferrying the lander.

 Meanwhile, Bob has taken my space programs first buggy out on a spin of the area immediately surrounding KSC. So far no real scientific advances have been found, but he's had fun and isn't stuck anywhere without air.

Aside from that, I've got a robotic orbiter heading towards Duna which should net me some much needed Science! and let me prepare and practice for sending living things with a chance of actually getting there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 09:31:16 pm
So. Apparently you you can be 3 meters off the ground. And take a soil sample.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 19, 2013, 09:33:59 pm
Is there any good way to get a spaceplane from Kerbin to other places, without stopping to refuel at a space station? If not, is there any good way to plain make a space station?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 19, 2013, 09:37:53 pm
Do different antennae have different functions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 09:56:50 pm
They transmit with different efficiencies, IIRC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 19, 2013, 10:26:35 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 09:56:50 pm
They transmit with different efficiencies, IIRC.

This doesn't really matter, since you can repeat experiments and transmit them over and over for the same amount of science as 100% efficiency returning them to Kerbin. However, the basic antenna takes less power per broadcast over a slightly longer time; go with this one unless you have a lot of excess electricity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 19, 2013, 10:30:35 pm
I think the goo samples need to be reset on EVA, however, so if you're flying a goo-laden probe the extra efficiency might help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 19, 2013, 10:46:09 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on October 19, 2013, 10:26:35 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 19, 2013, 09:56:50 pm
They transmit with different efficiencies, IIRC.

This doesn't really matter, since you can repeat experiments and transmit them over and over for the same amount of science as 100% efficiency returning them to Kerbin. However, the basic antenna takes less power per broadcast over a slightly longer time; go with this one unless you have a lot of excess electricity.
I don't think they actually change the % sent back; at least I didn't notice a change in that. I think it's just how fast the transmission goes and how much power it draws per packet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Charmander on October 19, 2013, 10:55:18 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 05:40:09 pm
Well, resources are coming soon, perhaps next update.
In all likelihood we'll get a release of Starbound before we get resources.

And that's a little bit sad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 19, 2013, 10:59:26 pm
Well, they pushed it back for science, so its already partially done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 19, 2013, 11:55:25 pm
This rover's home base is quite dainty.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It drives under and the skeleton kneels to link up. The rover can drive around while connected. The balloon wheels are worthless on the Mun. They have little to no traction. I just swapped them out for these better wheels. The rover has a dock on the bottom as well. The base can pick it up and get the rover on top of a standard rocket for a trip home. The rover has four sets of equipment for full retrieval.

The last iteration of this? Um. Well. There's a Kerbal on the moon that needs saving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 12:08:52 am
Just found out that the spacex grasshopper is quite a bit more impressive than I'd assumed before. I had the silly idea of taking a fuel tank with a docking port on the bottom and radial engines(and a little rcs fuel which turned out to not last very long at all and in the end be mostly useless) and try to place it on top of the docking port of the tiny lander I'd left Jeb in. I managed to get very close, within 20 meters at one point and thought I might even be able to do it(but at the cost of almost all the fuel I'd brought to refuel both Jeb and Bill's ship. In the end though, it turned out quite unfeasable, as even the tiny radial engines I'd stuck onto the mobile fuel tank were enough to completely knock over the lander on one low pass. As for why I didn't refuel Bill's ship first? well... I sort of encountered the Mun on an opposite equatorial orbit. Had to do a full flip of the orbit anyway, so I figured I might as well try refueling the lander first. Neither ended up getting done. Luckily the lander was light enough it could flip itself back over just with the pod torque. Time for another trip to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 20, 2013, 01:38:07 am
So, I've decided to make an orbiter craft based mostly on SRBs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It went predictably well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The weird thing is the impromptou radial decouplers work, but the additional SRBs are just too much for them to handle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 20, 2013, 02:09:44 am
I love the creativity this update is causing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 20, 2013, 03:50:31 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 19, 2013, 08:54:29 pm
I just did a manned flyby of Duna. I was short on fuel on the way back, so I didn't have enough to complete Kerbin orbit for safe re-entry. Fortunately, I don't like to do things safely anyway. I ended up simply burning to the left to turn my flight path onto Kerbin, and entered the atmosphere at approximately mach 12. In the end everything was OK.

This game makes for almost as awesome stories as DF.
I managed to land on Minmus for the first time, and realized I was more efficient than I planned- I had my entire lander's worth of fuel left over, because I actually landed on my second to last stage without landing gear. So I launched in at 11,000 m/s, and thrusted in reverse. I did it perfectly and hit the ground at 10 m/s... then tipped on the hill while thrusting, and managed to totally destroy my lander by crashing into the hillside. On kerbin, after a successful return trip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 20, 2013, 03:51:26 am
Quote from: Leonon on October 20, 2013, 02:09:44 am
I love the creativity this update is causing.


have you seen how Manley makes it's staging?
rocket surgery, he calls it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNXTFj3ozNY

edit: added the missing link
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 20, 2013, 04:07:15 am
A practice that will soon be lost, when the devs get around to implementing some states in between perfectly fine and destroyed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 20, 2013, 05:54:00 am
Did anyone post yet how to add mechjeb to Career mode? I tried reading through a few posts on the KSP forums but couldn't get it to work.

Did "Always transmit, forever" when the "how to do science" argument?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 20, 2013, 05:58:28 am
Quote from: Fikes on October 20, 2013, 05:54:00 am
Did anyone post yet how to add mechjeb to Career mode? I tried reading through a few posts on the KSP forums but couldn't get it to work.
Install it like you normally would, then in parts/Mechjeb2_AR202/part.cfg (open in notepad++, not notepad) change
Code: [Select]
    // --- editor parameters ---to
Code: [Select]
    // --- editor parameters ---
    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 0It will still be locked, but you can unlock it in the R&D building in the starter tech part for free.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 20, 2013, 06:54:36 am
Unless you want to actually have to research it, in which case you can unlock it later on down the line. I'd have it unlock together with the stayputnik.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on October 20, 2013, 07:41:42 am
Blargh the probe I sent to duna to gather gravity and temp readings(as well as attempt to get pressure readings from Duna's outer atmosphere) finished it's mission, and I had a perfect aerocapture set up on kerbin.....then timewarped right through it, forgetting that large timewarp increments ignore celestial bodies(normally, when timewarping at 100x or below, any interaction with a planet or moon would drop thew timewarp in increments, but noooo I had to blow right though that at insane speeds)

And my last quicksave was right after my one failed attempt to get close enough to take barometric readings of Duna(didn't have the delta-v to adjust and still get home :-/ ), so I ragequit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 20, 2013, 07:51:47 am
Just use MechJeb's Warp Helper. Saves so much time and trouble.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 20, 2013, 08:21:47 am
Quote from: tryrar on October 20, 2013, 07:41:42 am
Blargh the probe I sent to duna to gather gravity and temp readings(as well as attempt to get pressure readings from Duna's outer atmosphere) finished it's mission, and I had a perfect aerocapture set up on kerbin.....then timewarped right through it, forgetting that large timewarp increments ignore celestial bodies(normally, when timewarping at 100x or below, any interaction with a planet or moon would drop thew timewarp in increments, but noooo I had to blow right though that at insane speeds)

And my last quicksave was right after my one failed attempt to get close enough to take barometric readings of Duna(didn't have the delta-v to adjust and still get home :-/ ), so I ragequit
If you actually ragequit instead of ending the flight in any proper manner, then the next time you open KSP you'll be able to load your last autosave, which might be in a more advantageous position.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 20, 2013, 08:42:04 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
The tedium of doing the same thing over and over is an incentive to innovate your designs. If you just have a program to make it perfectly feasible to launch a bunch of inefficient rockets then why would you bother making them any better?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 20, 2013, 09:11:33 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!

1. Enable debris tracking in options
2. Recover debris
3. ???
4. Science!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:15:06 am
10 science bucks to the person that figures out how this happened.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(I didn't walk there, I landed where jastrząb 1 is and I only used jetpack fuel, the pack is currently at 88%.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 20, 2013, 09:16:04 am
You're on Duna?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 20, 2013, 09:17:16 am
Quote from: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:15:06 am
10 science bucks to the person that figures out how this happened.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(I didn't walk there, I landed where jastrząb 1 is and I only used jetpack fuel, the pack is currently at 88%.)

that's a lv-909 based mass relay used after landing on the moon, jetpack fuel used for course correction
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 20, 2013, 09:21:01 am
Spoiler: Always transmit? (click to show/hide)

Getting a probe out of Kerbin influence and back was a lot easier than I thought it'd be, especially with relatively low-tech parts.  Just took a little guesswork on the return thrust, and I still managed a reentry that I dare say was realistically safe.

Quote from: Leonon on October 20, 2013, 02:09:44 am
I love the creativity this update is causing.

It's like learning how to play the game all over again.  I have no why I can stack together a bunch of scale-1 parts and get a probe that can escape Minmus distance and bring itself back, yet uses all its fuel just trying to a make a stable orbit.

In related news I left my first Kerbonaut on the moon.  Note to self, descend from the near side of the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 09:25:03 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 20, 2013, 08:42:04 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
The tedium of doing the same thing over and over is an incentive to innovate your designs. If you just have a program to make it perfectly feasible to launch a bunch of inefficient rockets then why would you bother making them any better?

Who says they are inefficient?

Mechjeb is in no way perfect but waiting for a mission window sucks. You can use the alarm clock but that's another mod. You can fly by the seat of your pants if you want to, but you don't have to. Mechjeb will do as much or a little as you want. It's as much a tool as the navball or a calculator is.

Will dig up official .22 mechjeb link again in a bit. Not at computer now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:29:48 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 20, 2013, 09:17:16 am
that's a lv-909 based mass relay used after landing on the moon, jetpack fuel used for course correction
Hah, I wish - I barely unlocked the first four branches of the science tree. No, that's what happens when you fly into a crater's edge at high speeds. He just kept rolling down the crater, there was no way to stop him. This is what I've got right now:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's got about 20 litres of fuel, and I've got no idea how to use that to get back home.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And that's Jastrząb 1. As you can see, I don't have a whole lot of parts to work with, let alone experience in this game - I barely got this thing to an orbit higher than 80kkm because I'm just bad at games. It made it to the Mun, though, so that's good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on October 20, 2013, 09:33:12 am
eh, I just landed that probe on Duna and transmitted a whole bunch of science :P. Now I'm working on a full Duna mission using my new 2.5m probes and shiny clapotron Sr.s to put together a booster section, a command module, and a lander

Also, Fritz, remember you can transmit your findings back to kerbin, and don't be afraid of the data loss for transmitting. At your point in the game, science now is better than science maybe later, if you manage it. Also remember to repeat experiments and keep transmitting until you run out of any way to either charge your batteries or the science gain drops below 1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 20, 2013, 09:40:25 am
I love the probes even more than before.

I launched one with the intent to make goo experiment around the biomes of the mun. Orbiting 14 km above the surface, I realized that it was the EVA reports that care about the biomes (and the sampling). So I said "fuck it" and went for Minmus, made a pass 10km above it, transmitting everything I could, then pushed into kerbol orbit (after some quite enraging bugs with narrow escapes), transmitted a couple experimental results, then kept the last and went back. A single manoeuver brought me to a 68km kerbin apoapsis, that is to say a very shallow reentry. I burned all my residual fuel to reduce the speed, deployed the parachutes and landed. Upside down, but nothing distached.

Results: more than 300 !!SCIENCE!! points. This was a triumph. Huge success. I'm so happy right now :'D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:45:33 am
Did what you suggested, and it worked out well - I got enough science bucks to get batteries and science jr, unfortunately jastrzab 1 after reaching 12k km went back to the Mun and crashed, taking Jebediah with him.
So as far as I understand, science jr generates science passively and uses electric charge to transmit it back to Kerbin?


fakeedit: darn, I wish my flights were that successful, kaian ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 20, 2013, 09:47:37 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
*cough*quicksave*cough*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 20, 2013, 09:50:33 am
Here's a tip I sort of figured out.

You know how you can use fuel pipes to link the outer stages and break them off two at a time as you go up?

You don't need the fuel pipes. You can do that just by putting less or more fuel on different stages. It's not as efficient, but in my experience it's still a lot more weight-efficient than having a solid ring of rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 09:51:56 am
Quote from: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:15:06 am
10 science bucks to the person that figures out how this happened.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(I didn't walk there, I landed where jastrząb 1 is and I only used jetpack fuel, the pack is currently at 88%.)

Probably tried to climb up the crater wall and ended up sliding down the slope and along the ground for that distance. Low gravity worlds might as well be made of warm ice. (Assuming they aren't already.)


Edit: Derp... didn't see the next page with the answer on it.

Double edit: FritzPL: I think your rocket has a bit too much rocket on the bottom and not enough on the top. Either trim some off the bottom or add more fuel up top. It's hard to tell without test flying it myself, but I feel like you could get more distance if you shaved the top small tank off your radial boosters, and staged them a little differently, burn 4 first, let those go, burn the last two boosters, let those go, then move on to your central rocket stack. Should work a little better. I also have no idea how you fly, either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 20, 2013, 09:55:34 am
Does anyone know how science instruments work? I understand I cannot measure air pressure in a vacuum but both the air pressure and the temperature stuff don't work at random places / times :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 10:02:51 am
I think pressure has to be in an atmosphere, and temperature has to be in low orbit or lower(in atmosphere or ground level) around something. I've never had them work in high orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 20, 2013, 10:03:46 am
Ah, you're right (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 10:05:00 am
Quote from: Krevsin on October 20, 2013, 09:47:37 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
*cough*quicksave*cough*

HACKS!!!

Here's mechjeb. http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 20, 2013, 10:07:21 am
Quote from: tryrar on October 20, 2013, 09:33:12 am
eh, I just landed that probe on Duna and transmitted a whole bunch of science :P. Now I'm working on a full Duna mission using my new 2.5m probes and shiny clapotron Sr.s to put together a booster section, a command module, and a lander

Also, Fritz, remember you can transmit your findings back to kerbin, and don't be afraid of the data loss for transmitting. At your point in the game, science now is better than science maybe later, if you manage it. Also remember to repeat experiments and keep transmitting until you run out of any way to either charge your batteries or the science gain drops below 1

You don't lose any science from transmitting, in fact: transmitting is so good that I kinda consider it an exploit. You just have to transmit the same data over and over again, until you are only getting a tiny amount each time.

For that reason I now reserve transmitting to crew reports and one way probes, like sending a suicide probe to Jool itself.

Also, don't worry about running out of science, by my estimates there are at least 100 times more science in the Kerbol system, than you need to unlock all the parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 20, 2013, 10:11:22 am
I made a pretty successful spaceplane. I feel good. It can't complete an orbit due to lack of oxidizer for some reason, but it can easily cruise right along at over 1000 meters per second in the upper atmosphere. It's also the first spaceplane I've built that can take off AND land easily.

Edited to fix typos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 20, 2013, 10:18:19 am
Quote from: FritzPL on October 20, 2013, 09:45:33 am
Did what you suggested, and it worked out well - I got enough science bucks to get batteries and science jr, unfortunately jastrzab 1 after reaching 12k km went back to the Mun and crashed, taking Jebediah with him.
So as far as I understand, science jr generates science passively and uses electric charge to transmit it back to Kerbin?


fakeedit: darn, I wish my flights were that successful, kaian ;)
12k km or 12km? Straight up?

The best way to escape from Mun, Minmus, or any atmosphereless body, is to burn sideways right off the bat. Just put the rocket horizontal and steer away from mountains. That way you waste minimal delta-V to fighting gravity, and chances are, you'll at least put yourself in a good enough spot to "get out and push".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 20, 2013, 10:30:09 am
of course, if you are inside a crater or near mountains, be sure to be above surrounding obstacles before attemtping a sideways burn. otherwise, results may not be ideal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 01:43:05 pm
I'm getting tired of restaging subassemblies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 20, 2013, 01:58:15 pm
I just staged my subassemblies before saving them and they seem to keep the staging.  Unless I just get very lucky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 02:07:38 pm
My staging tends to stay in the right order but they overlap existing staging. Instead of 10 stages I get 5. A top set of asparagus engines fire at the same time as a bottom set of asparagus. That way only leads to madness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 20, 2013, 02:16:34 pm
Just pre-create a set of empty stages for the subassembly to occupy before connecting it - then it should work.

In other news, the latest release of the Near Future Propulsion Pack had thrown me and my Ike Exploratory Lander a very unfortunate curveball.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The large PITs have their thrust vector pointing in reverse. The exploratory "lander" will have to settle for a flyby. :\
At least the Enhanced Navball shows the node-retrograde vector. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 20, 2013, 03:08:15 pm
Ooh, shiney engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 03:31:09 pm
Now my rover has too much traction and a too small wheel base. Damnit.
*flips rover
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 20, 2013, 03:41:23 pm
I usually end up with not enough traction and a very large wheel base. Cue Minmus rovin' rage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 20, 2013, 03:43:53 pm
Why do mods update for .22 and not include tech levels in the parts?  They cannot actually be unlocked in career mode...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 20, 2013, 03:51:02 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 20, 2013, 09:47:37 am
Quote from: miauw62 on October 20, 2013, 08:38:03 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 08:19:06 am
Just let mechjeb play the whole game for you. Saves so much time and trouble.
Because losing a probe you invested tons of time in due to a mechanic that's not realistic is fun!

Because bringing a rocket you've brought into orbit 5000 times before is super fun!
*cough*quicksave*cough*
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 20, 2013, 03:54:26 pm
Alright, question time again, kiddos!

This spaceplane is pissing me off. It can go at frigging hypersonic speeds but I can't complete orbit because the rocket engine uses up too much oxidizer. I tried others and they do the same thing. Fuel isn't a problem.

Is there any way to fix this besides making more fuel tanks?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 20, 2013, 03:57:24 pm
Use jet engine fuselages for jet engines; they don't have oxidizer because they don't need oxidizer, while rockets require both.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 20, 2013, 03:58:58 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 20, 2013, 03:43:53 pm
Why do mods update for .22 and not include tech levels in the parts?  They cannot actually be unlocked in career mode...
Possibly so that you can use it in Sandbox without screwing literally everything up and they haven't had time to go through all the files and techify them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 20, 2013, 04:00:05 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 20, 2013, 03:57:24 pm
Use jet engine fuselages for jet engines; they don't have oxidizer because they don't need oxidizer, while rockets require both.
...Oh.

>.<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 20, 2013, 05:20:38 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 10:05:00 am

Here's mechjeb. http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

I got it and even modified the part to be researched in basic rocketry, but it still doesn't show up.

Theo whole "MechJeb2_AR202" goes in the parts folder and the MechJeb2.dll goes in the plugins folder right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 20, 2013, 05:23:28 pm
No. All mods are installed into the GameData folder now. The folder and the DLL go into the same folder. At least that's how all other mods I installed work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on October 20, 2013, 05:25:49 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 20, 2013, 05:23:28 pm
No. All mods are installed into the GameData folder now. The folder and the DLL go into the same folder. At least that's how all other mods I installed work.

So "\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\MechJeb2\Parts"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 20, 2013, 05:26:30 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 05:37:08 pm
Let's put a space station hub around Jool for moon trips.

Let's forget comms on said hub entirely.

The station orbital speed is 6660.6 m/s and it's pointing at Jool. I think I recreated the conditions for Event Horizon. Tom Kermin is freaking out. I await the day I link up a power hub and Tom gouges out his own eyes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 20, 2013, 05:47:24 pm
So I have a kerbalnaut currently on an escape velocity from Minmus and am not quite sure how to get him home.  I have a metric buttload of fuel on board but I only have 1.82 electric charge left (out of 1150, very wasteful of me) so I don't have the luxury of experimenting around with a lot of different thrust vectors.  What's the best way to get on a collision course with the atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 20, 2013, 05:59:39 pm
You can manually deploy parachutes?  That's insane.  Can you deploy them outside the atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 20, 2013, 06:18:31 pm
Glad to say he made it home safe but that was my personal Apollo 13.  Although we landed on the moon (and left an engine there!) so I guess I'm better then NASA at this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 20, 2013, 06:20:42 pm
Play with maneuver nodes, you've got time.  The -basic- idea is to put your maneuver node on the dark side of Minmus, and to tweak the thrust until you get an escape that sends you under 65km peri to Kerbin.  Kerbin atmosphere is 70km edge, so aim below that.  If you can get a direct collision with no peri, then just deploy chutes and wait.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 20, 2013, 06:30:10 pm
Hehe, just unlocked the last of the vanilla science; with a good 1k+ science points left over even. A trip to Moho netted nearly 4k science points from just about draining everything dry.

Never actually went to the Jool system, but I have flags on both Kerbin moons, Eve, Moho, and Duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 20, 2013, 06:45:23 pm
Then you know what you must do next.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 20, 2013, 07:21:48 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 20, 2013, 05:47:24 pm
So I have a kerbalnaut currently on an escape velocity from Minmus and am not quite sure how to get him home.  I have a metric buttload of fuel on board but I only have 1.82 electric charge left (out of 1150, very wasteful of me) so I don't have the luxury of experimenting around with a lot of different thrust vectors.  What's the best way to get on a collision course with the atmosphere?
Don't your thrusters generate electricity?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 20, 2013, 07:25:58 pm
Depends on the engine. The short engine is no-power generating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 07:29:39 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That was weird. I'm sure everything is okay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 20, 2013, 07:40:02 pm
OH GOD. THAT IS WONDEROUS. PLEASE TELL ME JEB OR BOB WAS FLYING.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 20, 2013, 07:51:23 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 07:29:39 pm
That was weird. I'm sure everything is okay.

Don't tell us you don't know what that's referencing.

Man, I gotta get to Jool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 07:53:04 pm
I watched the films back in the 90's when I was a teenager. It seems to be affecting just one Science Jr. I have two probes docked to a ship that is intended for Laythe. It's too bad the interior of this one probe isn't different, like turning all the lights from blue to red.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 20, 2013, 07:53:58 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 07:53:04 pm
I watched the films back in the 90's when I was a teenager. It seems to be affecting just one Science Jr.

There are randomized messages.  I've noticed a couple Crew Reports that only appeared once for me in the same conditions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 07:59:15 pm
Aw. I screwed up and dipped into Jool's atmosphere while maneuvering in map mode. The ship icon stopped showing way before so I wasn't certain where it was.

The whole ship is unmanned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 20, 2013, 08:10:30 pm
pretty soon KSP will be 'Event Horizon': The Game. *shudders*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 10:00:40 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 20, 2013, 05:37:08 pm
The station orbital speed is 6660.6 m/s and it's pointing at Jool. I think I recreated the conditions for Event Horizon. Tom Kermin is freaking out. I await the day I link up a power hub and Tom gouges out his own eyes.

Quote from: Urist McScoopbeard on October 20, 2013, 08:10:30 pm
pretty soon KSP will be 'Event Horizon': The Game. *shudders*
I gave the station power.
DON'T GO TO JOOL
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 20, 2013, 10:17:36 pm
Well, after my earlier, failed attempts, I finally managed to get a "Lifeboat" down to Jeb on the Munar surface. I'm not sure he was ready to come back yet, but either way he's back in Munar orbit with Bill and they both have a refueled vehicle to get back to Kerbin with. Only minor problem is I had to try to land a lander with no lights on the dark side with only a small floodlight on the cottage (and the hud, I guess) as a target.

All is well once again... at least until we see how they can screw this simple return mission up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 20, 2013, 10:19:55 pm
I just watched Event Horizon today. For reasons completely unrelated to this thread.

Tom Kerman: I am home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 21, 2013, 03:49:58 am
I have to say I'm pretty miffed at the Sensor Array Nosecone. While it brings back ok science (20-24) it claims to be giving you ten times that until you actually transmit or recover it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 21, 2013, 03:54:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 21, 2013, 03:49:58 am
I have to say I'm pretty miffed at the Sensor Array Nosecone. While it brings back ok science (20-24) it claims to be giving you ten times that until you actually transmit or recover it.

I was wondering what that was.... damn nosecones!

And the data size is 200!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 21, 2013, 08:42:07 am
It's a known and reported bug. It's actually an easily fixable one too, there's just a bad value in ScienceDefs.cfg which causes the wrong number to display.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 09:14:14 am
It's not really a "bad value" as such, the bug is that the initial in-flight report shows a different amount of science than you'll actually get. The value of the nosecone's aerial data is permanently capped at 0.1, but the in-flight report doesn't show you that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 21, 2013, 10:09:02 am
I know this is small-time compared to a lot of what goes on in this thread, but I just managed to land an intact probe on Eve!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So very proud.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 21, 2013, 10:23:23 am
Am I the only one that feels probes are kind of like cheating?

Isn't this about putting/crashing Kerbalkind where no Kerbalkind has been put/crashed before?

I dunno, unless Jeb, and/or Bob and/or Bill are smiling victoriously or panicking over their impending doom it just isn't the same...



That said, I've only just gotten to Minmus and haven't ever gone further than that so... grain of salt, two cents, and all that ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 21, 2013, 10:26:53 am
I found my Kethane probes to be really thematic and pleasing... just watching them orbit around endlessly scanning. Having a kerbal sit in a tiny can for years on end seems like a waste.

My latest Mun mission was successful, a vehicle with four landers that dispersed kerbals to various craters for new surface samples and science!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 21, 2013, 10:31:59 am
Anyone experimented with MOOSE (Man Out of Orbit Simple and Easy [or whatever])?  I've seen a few examples using ladders and wings to make boxes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 21, 2013, 10:33:54 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 21, 2013, 10:23:23 am
cheating?

I prefer to think of it as "easy mode" ;) Plus, I'm so terrible at this game, if I didn't have some success I'd probably ragequit more than I already do. Also, I'm perpetually terrified of losing Jeb; he's too awesome to lose!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 10:48:57 am
You can use KAS and just plain grab a radial parachute and deorbit. :P

Also. I love how this thing looks in space.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I quite like how it looks mining Kethane on Moho as well. ^_^
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(mods used: Kethane, Near Future Propulsion, one little insignificant part from KAS. And FAR/Deadly Reentry, but they didn't affect much.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 21, 2013, 11:47:01 am
Oh, I use probes to scan for things, but I definitely take them to wherever they're supposed to be on a manned craft, and then detach them! At least most of the time :) For landings and things, there definitely needs to be a kerbonaut in there!

Sean, wow, that's pretty amazing! There's a lot of weight there, I'm surprised that thing held together on a long journey, and that you had the fuel for it! Nice!

Also, there's a Kerbal hiding in the back! What's he doing?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 12:27:52 pm
He's not hiding, he's appreciating the view.

There's another kerbal on the top. Gang's all here. ^_^

Also, it's not very heavy. I tried to save as much mass as possible. Argon tanks are lightweight (relatively), the heaviest things here are the pod, the drills (1 ton each), and the reactor (6 tons). The whole craft is about.. 28 tons or so. I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 21, 2013, 12:53:52 pm
@Sean: Ah, but I see you are suffering from the same wonky lander leg bug that has plagued so many of my designs. I've had to edit the config so the engineers would stop using bed-springs for heavy duty pistons.

Other than that little issue, this is a great release. I'm amazed how much the science system has added to the game; I'm flying several simultaneous flyby missions, making more use of SRB's than I ever used to, and revisiting old but practical designs. Less is more!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 01:00:26 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on October 21, 2013, 12:53:52 pm
@Sean: Ah, but I see you are suffering from the same wonky lander leg bug that has plagued so many of my designs. I've had to edit the config so the engineers would stop using bed-springs for heavy duty pistons.
Only slightly. I managed to land fairly level, and nothing happened to tip it over. The effect you're seeing is primarily a perspective trick - check how high the segments of the Kethane drills are off the ground. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 21, 2013, 02:56:47 pm
I finally managed to get my first ever (EVER!) landing and return on Minmus.  I am aware that this is absolutely nothing compared to what some on here have achieved, but it's a big deal for me.   :D  I've had KSP since way back when, but I've never actually done more than land on the Mun and return back to Kerbin (so, in a sense, I've almost exactly mirrored real-life space exploration  :-[).

Spoiler: Warning, big image (click to show/hide)

Now for the next step in my explorations...

...modding!

I've just extracted Kethane (because awesome) and Near Future Propulsion (because those engines look amazing!), and will see how they go.  :)

P.S.  Yes, there is a technical flaw in my lander design that I didn't spot until I got to Minmus.  Stupid lander leg blocking the ladder.  Glad the gravity is as low as it is!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 03:07:48 pm
Word of advice: I had to manually modify the Kethane Converters to be able to convert Kethane into Near Future Propulsion's new fuels, Argon and Hydrogen. A future version of NFPP might fix that, but in the meantime I suggest you perform those modifications yourself.

Add
Code: [Select]
MODULE
{
name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1.5
        ElectricCharge = 3
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        ArgonGas = 0.4
    }
}MODULE
{
name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1.3
        ElectricCharge = 4
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        HydrogenGas = 0.6
    }
}to the kethane_1m_converter 's part.cfg, and add
Code: [Select]
MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 300
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 2
        ElectricCharge = 8
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        ArgonGas = 0.25
    }
}
MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 400
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1.8
        ElectricCharge = 12
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        HydrogenGas = 0.55
    }
} to kethane_2m_converter 's part.cfg.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 21, 2013, 03:09:53 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 03:07:48 pm
Word of advice: I had to manually modify the Kethane Converters to be able to convert Kethane into Near Future Propulsion's new fuels, Argon and Hydrogen. A future version of NFPP might fix that, but in the meantime I suggest you perform those modifications yourself.

Gotcha, thanks, will do - I've already done a bit of config tweaking to get Kethane parts to appear in my tech tree and to fix an animation bug in one of the drills, so happy to tweak a bit more.  Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 21, 2013, 04:21:46 pm
Come on little buddy. You can do it. Keep trying.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: What's a good flip mechanism for rovers? I guess a roll cage could work on this design. Or maybe the kerbal's head is sturdy enough?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 21, 2013, 04:29:04 pm
Landing gear at certain angles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 21, 2013, 04:32:05 pm
If the rover is lightweight enough, and/or the gravity is low enough, the most compact solution is 1x6 solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 21, 2013, 04:38:08 pm
0.6 tons so far.

It's so light Jeb can walk on top of it and it will move in that direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 21, 2013, 05:04:13 pm
0.6 tons? That's already a very small car...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 21, 2013, 05:16:11 pm
I'm still working on getting rolling sorted out. Hopefully that's not going to add too much weight. Most parts are under 0.08 tons.

Space tape is 0.05 tons. Sooooo heavy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 21, 2013, 06:17:16 pm
In that case, your best bet may actually be a small ladder part (not the extending ones) and have your kerbonaut grab on and use EVA thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 21, 2013, 06:51:49 pm
Just got my first landing and return from minmus.  I actually landed more or less where I aimed too.  Not only did I gather oodles of science I learned things myself too.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 21, 2013, 06:57:51 pm
For 8: check that shadow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 21, 2013, 07:06:09 pm
The solar panels were pointed at the ground and were still in direct sunlight when I was done and took off.  I needed to use the eva suit lights to find the ladder while I was spamming sample collection.

Maybe it had to do with the time of day when I landed, it was sunset when I landed, and I transmitted with only solar power for half the night after.  Moment I got above 5000 meters when I took off I was on battery power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 21, 2013, 07:30:40 pm
yeah solar panel shadow detection isn't the best. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 21, 2013, 07:34:09 pm
Lets be honest, KSP is buggy as hell.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 21, 2013, 07:37:32 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 21, 2013, 07:34:09 pm
Lets be honest, KSP is buggy as hell.
Its still in alpha. This is expected.

I always get a chuckle out of it when people rage. "I spent 4 hours building a base in KSP and a bug killed my kermans and blew up all stuff wahh"

Yeah it happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 21, 2013, 07:44:00 pm
That's why God Squad invented quick-save.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 21, 2013, 09:36:18 pm
Wow I see where you guys were coming from on the whole "rovers are crazy hard to control" thing.
I made a INCREDIBLY simple one for the purpose of retrieving kerbals who crashed on kerbin (because REALISM) and it flipped CONSTANTLY. At first it was cuz I put rockets on it and was generally dicking around, but later when I took it back down to a AI, four wheels, solar panels and the rest of the frame made of those octagon struts it was STILL flippy.
Oh I also had a ladder on the back and a external seat up top, so that the kerbal could actually get in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 21, 2013, 09:38:40 pm
You might want to play around with the Centers of Lift/Mass/Thrust to find something less prone to flip. What you want those to look like, though? No idea.

EXPERIMENTATION!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on October 21, 2013, 09:40:41 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 21, 2013, 07:30:40 pm
yeah solar panel shadow detection isn't the best. :P
I had a probe orbiting the sun further away from kerbin, and at one point stopped producing electricity because the sun was "blocked by kerbin". Not even a dot of kerbin was visible, just sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 21, 2013, 09:44:17 pm
For rovers, you want to keep the centre of mass low and give it a wide base. Remember that kerbals have mass too, so having a chair high up on a rover might be fine in the hangar, but will become unbalanced when someone is sitting in it. You might also try going into docking mode. It disables the probe's rotation so it won't be trying to flip itself around while you're driving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 21, 2013, 09:45:28 pm
So has anyone here gotten a full-on mun base? Like multiple parts all docked together?
If so SCREENSHOTS PLOX
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 21, 2013, 09:48:50 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 21, 2013, 09:45:28 pm
So has anyone here gotten a full-on mun base? Like multiple parts all docked together?
If so SCREENSHOTS PLOX
Define "base" because there's not much purpose for a structure just yet.

I think between Kethane, Near-Future, and KAS, you could build a functional refueling depot worth a lot of utility though...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 21, 2013, 10:18:53 pm
Yeah, I think the main problem is really making structures/bases that have usable docking ports. That was my problem last time I tried to make a Kethane fuel base.

Also, still waiting for that spacestation/tourism mod. So many ideas, so little time...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on October 21, 2013, 11:27:34 pm
Just for fun, I decided to install FAR and Deadly Reentry, and give career mode another go around from scratch.

Wow. O.o I knew it'd be harder, but I at least expected to get out of the atmosphere before everything started exploding.  Turns out that not everything is as resistant to g-forces as I thought.  :D

EDIT: Gosh, though, it makes it so much more rewarding when you succeed.  Just managed my first suborbital and reentry without torching the poor kerbalnaut.  Didn't pick up much science due to various compression-induced heating circumstances which were totally not unexpected in degree *cough*, but I'll have to redouble my efforts. :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 22, 2013, 01:49:20 am
I don't know if you already found this:
Spoiler: transfer to and from angle map (click to show/hide)

but here I post it anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 22, 2013, 02:03:22 am
That beautiful moment when the Mun and Minmus line up...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 22, 2013, 03:15:54 am
I just got into this game, and after throwing kerbals at the mun with acceptable success/failure ratios in the demo, I bought it, and certainly regret nothing. I puttered around in the sandbox mode for a while, and actually got a 26-ton rover, transporting three kerbals and two smaller rovers, on the mun, 87 km form its intended target, and completely spent on fuel and monopropellent, then took four hours to drive it over there. The terrain was scary as hell, because this thing couldn't drive down anything more than a 20-degree slope without deciding it can fly whether unfueled or not, and I ended up crossing a mountain range.

Flipped it dozens of times, but the landing was the most terrifying part: I ran out of fuel well above gorund while still travelling 30m/s, and crashed into the terrain at 50m/s. The rover only survived because it landed on the rear wheels first, then the front wheels, then rebounded, rolled a few times mid-air, bounced off its wheels again, before finally remaining on the ground and rolling, at which point I braked. Nothing else besides the 8 primary wheels and 7/8ths of the mini-rovers' wheels were damaged. And I'm not sure how the mini-rovers wheels popped since they're suspended about 2 meters above the ground. Maybe they absorbed some of the impact as well and it happened too fast for me to notice it.

Here's what it looks like on Kerbin:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I'm playing around in career mode, and that's kept me entertained quite thoroughly. I've so far been returning most of my samples rather than transmitting them, and designed a probe with nuclear engines just for a sun-orbiting mission, the science modules detachable with their own subsystems to return to kerbin and land. I got the first such module home, and promptly landed on a mountainside, resulting in it rolling down the slope and exploding. Yet to kill anybody, luckily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chattox on October 22, 2013, 03:29:51 am
So I can land on the Mun in one piece pretty reliably now, my problem is getting back. I can't seem to build a lander with enough fuel to both land and set a course back home.. How do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 04:02:59 am
One and a half standard tanks on a LV-909 can pretty soundly land and return a capsule and some goo pods from the Mun.

This is assuming that the lander didn't make it all the way from Kerbin on that fuel, and had at least some help getting on a Munar intercept trajectory. Refer to my Kerbal SCIENCE Program mission (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132171.msg4694958#msg4694958) for an example.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 22, 2013, 05:53:33 am
Is it bad that with only Basic Rocketry researched I've gotten farther than I ever had on Sandbox? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 22, 2013, 06:43:58 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 22, 2013, 01:49:20 am
I don't know if you already found this:
Spoiler: transfer to and from angle map (click to show/hide)

but here I post it anyway.
Spoiler: I wish I could do beautiful diagrams. All I can do are pixelated MATLAB semilog-plots. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 22, 2013, 07:14:34 am
Sometimes I wish I could reset my knowledge of how to play the game and go back to failing horribly trying to land on Mun, instead of being able to go out for a casual walk on Eve.

Those were the good ol' times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 22, 2013, 08:05:25 am
How the heck do people get these little Mun landers to work anyway.  I've done this before, it shouldn't be this hard, but every time I manage to get in Mun orbit, I have to burn up so much fuel stopping the orbit and then so much fuel shedding 400m/s of descent velocity that I don't have enough fuel left to get back to Kerbin.

I'm doing the same thing I always have before, with one-and-half standard fuel tanks and the little lander engine for a one-man capsule.  All this extra science gear can't weigh that much right?  I guess I just need to take a bigger service module with me.

At least I managed to successfully land my first spaceplane, right on the airstrip even.  So I had to quickload in orbit four times to deorbt in the general vicinity of KSC, but I did actually land.

Spoiler: The first flight was almost successful. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 22, 2013, 08:16:06 am
I wish KSP would let me use Free Download Manager... 459 MB is brutal :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 22, 2013, 08:26:08 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 22, 2013, 08:16:06 am
I wish KSP would let me use Free Download Manager... 459 MB is brutal :c

It actually does, I've found. Last I checked, anyway. If you have it set up right, it will download a good deal of it, and then, when it inevitably fails, you just go and download the game again from the site, and FDM will resume from where it left off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 22, 2013, 08:30:40 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 22, 2013, 08:16:06 am
I wish KSP would let me use Free Download Manager... 459 MB is brutal :c

I switched on steam precisely because of their patcher.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 22, 2013, 08:44:57 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on October 22, 2013, 08:05:25 am
How the heck do people get these little Mun landers to work anyway.  I've done this before, it shouldn't be this hard, but every time I manage to get in Mun orbit, I have to burn up so much fuel stopping the orbit and then so much fuel shedding 400m/s of descent velocity that I don't have enough fuel left to get back to Kerbin.

I'm doing the same thing I always have before, with one-and-half standard fuel tanks and the little lander engine for a one-man capsule.  All this extra science gear can't weigh that much right?  I guess I just need to take a bigger service module with me.

At least I managed to successfully land my first spaceplane, right on the airstrip even.  So I had to quickload in orbit four times to deorbt in the general vicinity of KSC, but I did actually land.

Spoiler: The first flight was almost successful. (click to show/hide)

I've personally found that I need around 2 standard fuel tanks in order to get down and back to Kerbin if I'm not doing some more complex staging or have something to dock to in munar orbit. If you're careful, you could probably get away with a little less, but 1.5 is a tight fuel budget just for a one Kerbal capsule to get down AND back again. Adding science to that can easily push it over the edge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 09:11:09 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 22, 2013, 08:44:57 am
Quote from: Aqizzar on October 22, 2013, 08:05:25 am
How the heck do people get these little Mun landers to work anyway.  I've done this before, it shouldn't be this hard, but every time I manage to get in Mun orbit, I have to burn up so much fuel stopping the orbit and then so much fuel shedding 400m/s of descent velocity that I don't have enough fuel left to get back to Kerbin.

I'm doing the same thing I always have before, with one-and-half standard fuel tanks and the little lander engine for a one-man capsule.  All this extra science gear can't weigh that much right?  I guess I just need to take a bigger service module with me.

At least I managed to successfully land my first spaceplane, right on the airstrip even.  So I had to quickload in orbit four times to deorbt in the general vicinity of KSC, but I did actually land.

Spoiler: The first flight was almost successful. (click to show/hide)

I've personally found that I need around 2 standard fuel tanks in order to get down and back to Kerbin if I'm not doing some more complex staging or have something to dock to in munar orbit. If you're careful, you could probably get away with a little less, but 1.5 is a tight fuel budget just for a one Kerbal capsule to get down AND back again. Adding science to that can easily push it over the edge.
Again, see my mission (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132171.msg4694958#msg4694958). 1.5 tanks is quite enough. You do end up with a rather tight budget, but it's very possible, even with science.

The key is to brake efficiently at the Mun, and to return efficiently.

I think it does end up under ten minutes real time, so I might record the way I do it myself with Bandicam and see about uploading it somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 22, 2013, 09:39:56 am
I typically for the Mun go with something around 1.5-2 km/s guesstimate worth of delta-v when landing on mun. ~500 m/s to stop horizontal, ~500 m/s for establishing orbit upon return and the rest is for slowing descent and escape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 10:23:03 am
Well, the Engineer lists my lander's dV at 2951m/s. That's what it has in Kerbin orbit. By the time it hits Mun SOI, it has around 1900. Projected dV for landing is about 900, this is a suicide burn from a direct intercept. That'll leave me with 1000 for return.

edit: okay, actual landing dV turned out closer to 1100. 800m/s is still plenty for a return.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 22, 2013, 10:25:10 am
Try not to make your lander into a vessel that travels.  Ideally you should be able to thrust up to an intercept, or even make orbit around Mun, and then stage to the pure lander phase.  My landers end up having the SOI transfer rocket used to reach Mun, then bleed velocity, then detach to the lander phase and let the transfer rocket crash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 22, 2013, 10:26:46 am
Am I the only to have almost accidentally used the term POO... Path Of Orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 22, 2013, 10:34:29 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 22, 2013, 10:26:46 am
Am I the only to have almost accidentally used the term POO... Path Of Orbit?
I use it intentionally, if that counts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 11:55:54 am
So, I went ahead and did what I said I probably wouldn't. That is, loaded my exploratory kethane scout up with everything it can carry, and tried to lift off.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Turns out, it's possible! :D

Fuel spent after rising to a 100x100 orbit around Moho: less than a third of the carried Kethane, or about an equivalent of less than a sixth of the ship's Argon capacity. That's even with Kethane being used to replenish RCS fuel in flight.

I think I'm perfectly capable of sending it to Eeloo right from there. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 22, 2013, 11:58:42 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 11:55:54 am
So, I went ahead and did what I said I probably wouldn't. That is, loaded my exploratory kethane scout up with everything it can carry, and tried to lift off.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Turns out, it's possible! :D

Fuel spent after rising to a 100x100 orbit around Moho: less than a third of the carried Kethane, or about an equivalent of less than a sixth of the ship's Argon capacity. That's even with Kethane being used to replenish RCS fuel in flight.

I think I'm perfectly capable of sending it to Eeloo right from there. ^_^
Moho to Eeloo? Holy shit the delta-v for that must be enormous. Not just getting there but staying there. And there's no atmosphere to help you. I'm assuming you plan to use slingshots?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 22, 2013, 12:02:23 pm
Those Near-Future Propulsion "PIT" drives have incredibly high fuel efficiency, effectively very large ion drives (in fact they use Argon instead of Xenon).  So, he'll probably get anywhere he wants to.  Slowly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 12:08:16 pm
Quote from: da_nang on October 22, 2013, 11:58:42 am
Moho to Eeloo? Holy shit the delta-v for that must be enormous. Not just getting there but staying there. And there's no atmosphere to help you. I'm assuming you plan to use slingshots?
Most likely, yes, though I won't go out of my way to Grand Tour or anything. I have my Conic Patch limit set pretty high, so I'm just going to feel around with the nodes and see what kind of trajectory seems most effective.

Quote from: Girlinhat on October 22, 2013, 12:02:23 pm
Those Near-Future Propulsion "PIT" drives have incredibly high fuel efficiency, effectively very large ion drives (in fact they use Argon instead of Xenon).  So, he'll probably get anywhere he wants to.  Slowly.
The Pulsed Inductive Thrusters have rather less Isp than Ion drives, but more thrust, at the cost of increased power usage (those things that look like four metallic solar panels, are radiators; the thing they're attached to is a nuclear reactor). Just being able to lift off from Moho shows that the craft is quite capable. It can pull about a half-gee at maximum thrust, so interplanetary transfer burns are still long, but they're minutes long, not hours. The transfer burn from Kerbin to Moho was 11 minutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 22, 2013, 01:18:31 pm
I've got a mock-up of a better construction UI here (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1ozlqq/a_more_compact_construction_ui/):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyone know a mod like that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 22, 2013, 01:27:00 pm
Oh holy Jesusballs I want that D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 22, 2013, 01:38:14 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 22, 2013, 01:18:31 pm
I've got a mock-up of a better construction UI here (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1ozlqq/a_more_compact_construction_ui/):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyone know a mod like that?
Nothing like that (in a list), but you might want to look into PartCatalog (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/35018-0-21-PartCatalog-2-0-Big-overhaul-get-your-dynamic-subgroups-now!), a mod to apply some filtering to your parts lists.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 22, 2013, 01:38:29 pm
Tonight's goal, get a lander on the Mun.
Normally I would shrug this off as a simple task, but I don't have Struts or Fuel pipes unlocked yet, D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 22, 2013, 02:45:30 pm
I just unlocked fuel lines.
I love you liquid fuel boosters please never leave me again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 03:05:36 pm
Oops. Forgot parachutes. This thing may need a stage just for slowing down before Mun landing and for getting home. Otherwise it's not too bad. Can do 4 research sets. Maybe a fuel tug can help it in orbit to get it back to Kerbin.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The pilot has to get out of the pod and ride in the rover down to the Mun and back up into orbit. Wild ride. Mun gravity is low enough the rover can drive under and dock without the lift stage kneeling.

I have only used hyperedit to get it in orbit around the Mun so far. No full mission yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 22, 2013, 03:53:40 pm
That is a horrifying abomination. Well done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on October 22, 2013, 04:07:56 pm
I...I made it into space (in the demo). I never made it into space before. Bollocks-ed the orbit attempt so that I instead went in a highly elliptical path that carried me 1/3 of the way to the Mun, before falling back to Kerbal in a glorious flaming heap. Still -- progress.


I may have to buy the full game when it goes on sale again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 22, 2013, 04:11:00 pm
I made it to Minmus, landed, did loads of !!SCIENCE!!, and returned.
Result? 600 !!SCIENCE!! points. Hell yeah! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 22, 2013, 04:11:27 pm
Quote from: RedKing on October 22, 2013, 04:07:56 pm
I...I made it into space (in the demo). I never made it into space before. Bollocks-ed the orbit attempt so that I instead went in a highly elliptical path that carried me 1/3 of the way to the Mun, before falling back to Kerbal in a glorious flaming heap. Still -- progress.


I may have to buy the full game when it goes on sale again.

Hehe, you went up too much.

What you need to do is:

1. Go up to, oh, ~10000 meters.

2. Turn in the direction you want to orbit (probably 90 degrees, or right from the default camera angle) at that point.

3. Burn until your apoapsis is at least 70,000 meters. I would recommend anywhere between 75,000 and 100,000.

4. Keep it above that level.

5. Once near apoapsis, start burning prograde. You'll end up in orbit eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 04:12:09 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 22, 2013, 03:53:40 pm
That is a horrifying abomination. Well done.

Flip it upside down, mount on orange tanks and mainsail, and off you go. That's how space travel works, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 22, 2013, 04:21:10 pm
Eh, if that doesn't work, use more rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 22, 2013, 04:24:00 pm
Afterall, we dont have no budget here boy.

We do have tech limiting things...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 22, 2013, 05:14:41 pm
God forbid the day we do have a budget. Someone will probably have to figure out how to get to Eeloo with a few dozen spray cans, a match stick, and a stripped-down lawn chair.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 22, 2013, 05:17:44 pm
NOT IT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 22, 2013, 05:40:46 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 22, 2013, 05:14:41 pm
God forbid the day we do have a budget. Someone will probably have to figure out how to get to Eeloo with a few dozen spray cans, a match stick, and a stripped-down lawn chair.
Get there? Maybe, not so sure about the 'returning' thing.

That doesn't mater though. Jeb is ecstatic either way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 06:28:47 pm
My tiny rover is slippery. It slides everywhere. The whole setup did get to the Mun successfully. I need to build a monster rover now. Getting them bottom heavy is the hard part.

Oops. Tipped over and blew up the Jr docking. Can't return the whole rover to kerbin. The ascent stage can, though. Bye Jeb. No room for you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on October 22, 2013, 07:00:15 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 22, 2013, 05:43:55 pm
Get there? Well, so long as you don't mind getting there in pieces.
Well, you know what they say.  Any landing you can walk away from needs more boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 22, 2013, 07:14:06 pm
Quote from: Culise on October 22, 2013, 07:00:15 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 22, 2013, 05:43:55 pm
Get there? Well, so long as you don't mind getting there in pieces.
Well, you know what they say.  Any landing you can walk away from needs more boosters.
During my latest "lets see if this ship will actually fly, oh LOLNO, no it won't" session, I was trying to shoot a space station into orbit atop what was basically just a six-symmetry group of the largest fuel tanks and Mainsails, and the whole "station part ended up coming down hard. I had radial chutes on a piece CONNECTED to it, but that piece ripped off when the chute deployed, leaving Jeb and Bob in freefall in that station piece. So I decided to see if Jeb could survive EVAing and firing his thrusters upward....NOPE. But then at the last second I EVA'd Bob and for some reason he survived. That was pretty weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 22, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
Just downloaded Extraplanetary Launchpads, KAS, Kethane, MissionController, and NearFuture. Time to go nuts. With a fresh career, of course, since having all the science to start with would just be no fun at all. >:D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 22, 2013, 08:58:32 pm
I just overestimated my delta-v remaining in a lander and tried to land on both minmus and mun in one mission only to find that I still had 300 m/s left to go when my fuel ran out. Whoops. Bye, Bill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 22, 2013, 09:18:17 pm
Quote from: alway on October 22, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
Just downloaded Extraplanetary Launchpads, KAS, Kethane, MissionController, and NearFuture. Time to go nuts. With a fresh career, of course, since having all the science to start with would just be no fun at all. >:D
If you manage to figure out the tweaks needed to get all those into career could you send it to me? Kinda doing the same thing, minus missioncontroller, which I probably will get at some point.

Also anyone having issues with the Rockomax BACC boosters? EVERY time I put them radially they work fine until the last few seconds of their fuel, then they jump up and hit anything I have above them, seemingly for no reason whatsoever. Is quite frustrating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 22, 2013, 09:27:29 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 22, 2013, 08:58:32 pm
I just overestimated my delta-v remaining in a lander and tried to land on both minmus and mun in one mission only to find that I still had 300 m/s left to go when my fuel ran out. Whoops. Bye, Bill.

Go down to your last stage that can survive re-entry, and make Bill get out and push.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 22, 2013, 09:42:13 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 22, 2013, 09:18:17 pm
Quote from: alway on October 22, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
Just downloaded Extraplanetary Launchpads, KAS, Kethane, MissionController, and NearFuture. Time to go nuts. With a fresh career, of course, since having all the science to start with would just be no fun at all. >:D
If you manage to figure out the tweaks needed to get all those into career could you send it to me? Kinda doing the same thing, minus missioncontroller, which I probably will get at some point.
Eh, don't know how many are properly updated, but at least launchpads works out of the box (though it's an 1000 point end-tier research)

Edit: Using my fully-unlocked save, looks like NearFuture is integrated throughout the tree quite nicely. So that leaves KAS and Kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 09:46:42 pm
More ugly over-engineering from me. Sub 70 ton "rover". Three crew so far. Kerbals can walk around inside and get to the roof. At the very least it can just drive around Kerbin. Extraplanetary Launchpad could get it on other solar bodies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It still needs oh so much space tape.

Bonus shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 22, 2013, 09:51:50 pm
Oh, and it looks like it's mad simple to make mod parts work with research. There's just a 'TechRequired = <technamehere>' line you add to the part.cfg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 22, 2013, 09:57:48 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 09:46:42 pm
More ugly over-engineering from me. Sub 70 ton "rover". Three crew so far. Kerbals can walk around inside and get to the roof. At the very least it can just drive around Kerbin. Extraplanetary Launchpad could get it on other solar bodies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It still needs oh so much space tape.

Bonus shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Craft file?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 22, 2013, 10:02:42 pm
Ok seriously don't know what you're complaining about, that "rover" is AWESOME.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 22, 2013, 10:07:42 pm
Most efficient way to assign research to parts not set up for it:
1. get Notepad++ (if you are a sane person, you already have it)
2. Find in Files: Filter: *.cfg Directory: <modfolder>/Parts search term: cost
This will give you a list of all parts (and a count), which will open em for you when you doubleclick; nice and quick.

Tech name in the cfg seems to follow a camelcase scheme (Science Tech) -> (scienceTech)

Note: if you do this after your save researched the research pre-req, you will need to go into the tech workshop, click on the tech, then click on each part; it will prompt you if you want to research that part (it's free).

Converted over both Kethan and KAS in under 15 minutes in Notepad++; and that's because I felt like making some of the techs sensible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 10:28:13 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on October 22, 2013, 09:57:48 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 09:46:42 pm
More ugly over-engineering from me. Sub 70 ton "rover". Three crew so far. Kerbals can walk around inside and get to the roof. At the very least it can just drive around Kerbin. Extraplanetary Launchpad could get it on other solar bodies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It still needs oh so much space tape.

Bonus shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Craft file?

Still a work in progress, but sure. Fair warning: little to no symmetry used. Rover wheel symmetry sucks in general. It needs to be built around squares and almost everything is circles. Parts have one connection, which is where the space tape comes in. So much space tape needed. So many ill-fitting parts. I wish Kerbals could climb over ladder edges. Have fun with it, though. (http://www.filedropper.com/roversuprememki) Alt+F12 for part clipping is a must. Center of mass is way too high. I bet it flips the moment it hits Mun's surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 22, 2013, 10:33:17 pm
You can sort of get around those problems by making one part, like just the front, and then copying it over to make the back. Subassemblies probably also make it a ton easier too!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 10:47:24 pm
I did that originally. Most of the back was done so I alt-clicked the spine to copy. Now I'm actually tempted to design a dockable version made of four or five parts, two sets of two parts and a crew hub for control. Just quarter the thing. I think KAS or Quantum Struts would be needed.
By the way
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 22, 2013, 11:47:12 pm
Awesome, thanks. I just want to mess with it/see if I could get it to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 11:53:32 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on October 22, 2013, 11:47:12 pm
Awesome, thanks. I just want to mess with it/see if I could get it to orbit.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. It's almost 600 parts now. If you want a much sturdier version, here you go (http://www.filedropper.com/roversuprememki_1). 0 is a lighting hotkey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 23, 2013, 01:05:32 am
Awesome, thanks. I'm going to try sending this up on the back of my heaviest rocket. We'll see how this goes....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 02:44:05 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 10:47:24 pm
I did that originally. Most of the back was done so I alt-clicked the spine to copy. Now I'm actually tempted to design a dockable version made of four or five parts, two sets of two parts and a crew hub for control. Just quarter the thing. I think KAS or Quantum Struts would be needed.
By the way
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I love big rovers. Reminds me of my old Falinesti (http://imageshack.us/a/img189/5584/damd.png) design (http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2048/ujyi.png). What's the top speed and climbing angle on that rover?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 05:48:31 am
Hey does anyone know if there is a Mechjeb compatible with this version? And if so, where to find it? Would like to try it out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 23, 2013, 06:09:19 am
Search the thread for "mechjeb". First or second result should have a link.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 07:40:57 am
Why does everyone take pictures of their rovers at night?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2013, 08:27:22 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 05:48:31 am
Hey does anyone know if there is a Mechjeb compatible with this version? And if so, where to find it? Would like to try it out.
http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

In career mode it attaches after the last autonomous probe tree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 08:38:54 am
Ok, I have encountered a bit of an engineering problem with my spaceplane.

Specifically, this spaceplane:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, this being unable to take off is a complete travesty, given that it is the SEXIEST THING IN THE GODDAMN UNIVERSE.

This marvel of engineering was created to bypass a simple flaw in the abilities of our engineers, specifically the inability to put decouplers on jet engines.
To get a better idea of the wonder you are witnessing, here are more pics:

From Behind:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And From Above:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So as you can probably see, the basic idea is that it takes off as a jet, rises as high as possible and then decouples to its atomic engines, which then allow it to travel through space properly.
When it is time for the ship to come home, the ship enters a path toward the atmosphere of its choosing and then AIRDROPS THE SMALLER PLANE FROM ORBIT.

Now on to the actual problem.
The problem I'm having is that the six engines in the back immediately flameout as soon as I attempt to activate them.
It seems to be related to air intake as when I turned the "infinite fuel" cheat on they worked perfectly.
This is despite the rather obvious intakes attached to that stage of the plane.

Anyone know what could be causing this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 08:46:05 am
You do realize that the engines you have in the back are aerospikes? Specifically, Toroidal Aerospike Rocket Engines?

They kind of need oxidizer. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 08:46:44 am
I think this is a hardware problem that can be resolved with software.

Air intake depends on number of intakes and speed.  Flameout depends on air intake and number of engines.  Increase the intakes, increase speed, or reduce the engines.

So here's what you do.  Stage 1 is the two center-rear engines.  Stage 2 is the outermost engines.  Stage 3 is the innermost engines.  Let the first engines start picking up speed, which will increase your airflow, and allow you to turn on more engines...

You could add some radial air intakes, but that would be far too ugly for such a glorious craft!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 23, 2013, 09:04:26 am
Change the turbojet engine to a toroidal aero spike and turn the toroidal aero spikes into turbojets  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 09:14:15 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 08:46:05 am
You do realize that the engines you have in the back are aerospikes? Specifically, Toroidal Aerospike Rocket Engines?

They kind of need oxidizer. ;)
Ah....that probably explains it.
I had no idea those counted as rocket engines, I thought they were just another jet engine.
WOOPS :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 23, 2013, 09:16:23 am
Also, what is up with the nuclear engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 09:16:50 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 23, 2013, 09:04:26 am
Change the turbojet engine to a toroidal aero spike and turn the toroidal aero spikes into turbojets  :P
He won't have enough power for egress then. A single turbojet can get him in the air, but a single aerospike won't pull him up into orbital-ish altitude so that the NERVAs can complete the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 09:22:12 am
I've found a somewhat unusual way to bring spaceplanes into orbit.  Raise to ~20km and hold to gain speed, then aim downwards JUST a little and slowly drift down to 10-15km, then aim nearly straight up.  When you exist atmosphere, stage over to rockets.

The idea here is to gain as much horizontal speed while near 20km, then lower to enter more atmosphere (lose some speed but that's fine) and rise up again, so you have your existing horizontal speed, plus the vertical speed you'll be gaining with airbreathers.  If you can get your apoapsis above 70km then you can usually use your rockets to pick up a stable orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 09:27:49 am
Quote from: ank on October 23, 2013, 09:16:23 am
Also, what is up with the nuclear engines?
They are probably the best space engines.
They're like 10x more efficient then other liquid fuel engines with a lot more thrust then that weird probe engine.
Basically they have it all once the atmosphere is out of the way, and that's what the jet engines are for.

Also the small plane with the turbojet is for landings.
Its like a more sane version of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYy_XJpI6uk
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lucidvizion on October 23, 2013, 09:40:51 am
I think a lot of the rover low gravity stability problems would be corrected by have a throttle for the rover wheels... not the digital, full speed controlled wheelies that the WASD keys give you.

I wonder if that's something that could be modded in.  Or is this something we can already do with action groups and I just never noticed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 09:41:44 am
Hold on, were you planning to make it to the stratosphere with just those six aerospikes and a standard tank of fuel for each?

Sorry, but no. Not happening. Even with the aerospikes being as efficient in the atmosphere as they are, there is just not enough delta-V in that to get up high enough. Not with two NERVAs and two long tanks riding on top of that.

The biggest point in favor of SSTO spaceplanes is being able to use high-efficiency turbojets for most of the way through the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 09:46:21 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 09:41:44 am
Hold on, were you planning to make it to the stratosphere with just those six aerospikes and a standard tank of fuel for each?

Sorry, but no. Not happening. Even with the aerospikes being as efficient in the atmosphere as they are, there is just not enough delta-V in that to get up high enough. Not with two NERVAs and two long tanks riding on top of that.

The biggest point in favor of SSTO spaceplanes is being able to use high-efficiency turbojets for most of the way through the atmosphere.
As said, he thought he was using jets.  Which is well enough engines for a set of turbojets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 09:50:35 am
Well, yes. But not really enough for using NERVAs afterwards. And there are really not enough air intakes either way. Six engines will flame out way too soon without at least as many intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 09:52:51 am
Quote from: ank on October 23, 2013, 09:16:23 am
Also, what is up with the nuclear engines?

Low power, high efficiency in a vacuum. Maneuvers will take half an hour to finish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 23, 2013, 09:57:57 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 09:52:51 am
Quote from: ank on October 23, 2013, 09:16:23 am
Also, what is up with the nuclear engines?

Low power, high efficiency in a vacuum. Maneuvers will take half an hour to finish.
Also very high mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 23, 2013, 11:06:58 am
Quote from: Dutchling on October 23, 2013, 09:57:57 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 09:52:51 am
Quote from: ank on October 23, 2013, 09:16:23 am
Also, what is up with the nuclear engines?

Low power, high efficiency in a vacuum. Maneuvers will take half an hour to finish.
Also very high mass.

Also terrible for getting to orbit.

Gimmy the craft file I'll make it go orbital!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on October 23, 2013, 11:16:45 am
I hate nuclear engines, if only for the awkward way they decouple when I stage to them. I'm forced to make an exterior structure to extend my landing gear to the ground due to their length, and then their covering gets wedged between the engine and the structure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 23, 2013, 11:21:48 am
...Why are you using the nuclear engine for a lander? I always have:

1. Launch stage. 6 skippers, 1 mainsail. Skipper all fed by rockomax 32, which all feed into Mainsail's 64.
2. Mainsail stage for good chunk of gravity burn and circularization. Fed by a rockomax 64 and 8 (so no overheat)
3. NERVA stage. Fed by five T-400, two on top of each other and 3 radial.
4. Lander. It's a pod, a science jr. (covered entirely with batteries, science implements and two large solar panels) and a T-400 feeding into an LV-909. After detaching the lander, it can be reattached by a docking node.

This is how people manage to land on other bodies and get back, btw; they have an intermediate stage with way more isp than the lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2013, 11:28:38 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 09:22:12 am
I've found a somewhat unusual way to bring spaceplanes into orbit.  Raise to ~20km and hold to gain speed, then aim downwards JUST a little and slowly drift down to 10-15km, then aim nearly straight up.  When you exist atmosphere, stage over to rockets.

The idea here is to gain as much horizontal speed while near 20km, then lower to enter more atmosphere (lose some speed but that's fine) and rise up again, so you have your existing horizontal speed, plus the vertical speed you'll be gaining with airbreathers.  If you can get your apoapsis above 70km then you can usually use your rockets to pick up a stable orbit.

That sounds really familiar from something I've seen/read. I remember it was fiction and thinking "no way that would work like that. The thick atmosphere would kill all the speed." Maybe it's closer to possible than I thought. Seems like it would be pretty stressful craft/crew wise.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 11:34:49 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 23, 2013, 11:28:38 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 09:22:12 am
I've found a somewhat unusual way to bring spaceplanes into orbit.  Raise to ~20km and hold to gain speed, then aim downwards JUST a little and slowly drift down to 10-15km, then aim nearly straight up.  When you exist atmosphere, stage over to rockets.

The idea here is to gain as much horizontal speed while near 20km, then lower to enter more atmosphere (lose some speed but that's fine) and rise up again, so you have your existing horizontal speed, plus the vertical speed you'll be gaining with airbreathers.  If you can get your apoapsis above 70km then you can usually use your rockets to pick up a stable orbit.

That sounds really familiar from something I've seen/read. I remember it was fiction and thinking "no way that would work like that. The thick atmosphere would kill all the speed." Maybe it's closer to possible than I thought. Seems like it would be pretty stressful craft/crew wise.
It doesn't really work in KSP. The thick atmosphere kills most of the gain you could have had from using the atmosphere for lift. What actually happens, as I've found, is that you're repeating your ascent, but have much lower mass due to having lost all that fuel, and thus can attain a higher velocity and maintain a greater angle of ascent, plus have less mass to push with your rocket stage. Generally, if you can do that, in KSP you'd be better off just keeping up the acceleration.

It's a whole other kind of ball game if you use FAR, or Real Lifetm. The atmosphere doesn't kill your velocity nearly as well if you're aerodynamic, and you actually gain a whole lot of upwards momentum from taking a dive into the atmosphere.

I can attest though, that even if for a different reason, the trick does work in KSP Stock. One of my more elaborate SSTO designs once suffered an uneven flameout, and tumbled out of its ascent trajectory, necessitating a dip way down to the low 10's of kilometers. The ascent from there was massively efficient, and I made orbit with way more fuel than normally. I wrote it off as a bug back then, as I haven't been able to really replicate it later, but I might try again, harder this time. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 23, 2013, 12:04:29 pm
Man I want to re-do the tech tree (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0). It should work out to be 1-2 missions for each tech, with lots and lots of techs available. That way you're getting a trickle of parts instead of an explosion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on October 23, 2013, 12:06:07 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 23, 2013, 11:21:48 am
...Why are you using the nuclear engine for a lander? I always have:

1. Launch stage. 6 skippers, 1 mainsail. Skipper all fed by rockomax 32, which all feed into Mainsail's 64.
2. Mainsail stage for good chunk of gravity burn and circularization. Fed by a rockomax 64 and 8 (so no overheat)
3. NERVA stage. Fed by five T-400, two on top of each other and 3 radial.
4. Lander. It's a pod, a science jr. (covered entirely with batteries, science implements and two large solar panels) and a T-400 feeding into an LV-909. After detaching the lander, it can be reattached by a docking node.

This is how people manage to land on other bodies and get back, btw; they have an intermediate stage with way more isp than the lander.
Bah! Apollo 11 can kiss my kass, I want to do a direct ascent lunar landing because I absolutely hate docking. It works for me except for the problem I described, which generally causes uncontrollable spinning and death.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2013, 01:01:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 23, 2013, 12:04:29 pm
Man I want to re-do the tech tree (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0). It should work out to be 1-2 missions for each tech, with lots and lots of techs available. That way you're getting a trickle of parts instead of an explosion.

why all trees begin without even basic wings so you can get some report in an unsafe but satisfying manner instead of just suicide missions for fun?  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 23, 2013, 01:39:04 pm
Nothing is a suicide mission as long as you have a parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 01:46:41 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 23, 2013, 01:39:04 pm
Nothing is a suicide mission as long as you have a parachute.
And aren't landing on something that isn't Kerbin, Eve, Duna, or Laythe. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 23, 2013, 02:12:16 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 23, 2013, 12:04:29 pm
Man I want to re-do the tech tree (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0). It should work out to be 1-2 missions for each tech, with lots and lots of techs available. That way you're getting a trickle of parts instead of an explosion.
About that example tree given there there's one thing that irks me. I haven't played carreer mode yet, but apparently solar panels come even later than in the stock carreer mode (which was apperantly already pretty late?). They're pretty essential, tbh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 23, 2013, 02:19:44 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 23, 2013, 12:04:29 pm
Man I want to re-do the tech tree (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0). It should work out to be 1-2 missions for each tech, with lots and lots of techs available. That way you're getting a trickle of parts instead of an explosion.
That mod installs tech trees as a plain text .cfg file in your save folder. If you want to you can mod it however you want.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 23, 2013, 02:20:00 pm
Pfft, I got more than enough science for landing on the mun by the time I figured it would be the next logical step.  And I didn't even explore all the kerbin biomes.  And if you can land on the Mun you can land on minmus with a few more boosters. 

While I haven't tried it yet, landing on duna seems like it would be even easier than landing on the mun, You land just like you did with Mun, except you deploy your kerbin return parachute on the way down for added drag and stability.  Just have to remember to pack it back up again before you try to return to kerbin.

I can't really think of any body except Jool that you can't feasibly land on with nothing but lander legs, parachutes, and liquid engines.  Might need maybe docking additional if you wanna return from someplace outside of the kerbin system, but once you get basic solar panels you don't even need to return the science.  Just transmit til it's dry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 23, 2013, 02:24:48 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on October 23, 2013, 02:12:16 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 23, 2013, 12:04:29 pm
Man I want to re-do the tech tree (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0). It should work out to be 1-2 missions for each tech, with lots and lots of techs available. That way you're getting a trickle of parts instead of an explosion.
About that example tree given there there's one thing that irks me. I haven't played carreer mode yet, but apparently solar panels come even later than in the stock carreer mode (which was apperantly already pretty late?). They're pretty essential, tbh.

Well, the idea was to make you do a few landings before you have the option to go transmissions-only.  While I like the option of transmitting, I think there should be a cap on how much you can get for transmitting for some experiments.  Otherwise it's just a choice between the tedium of retransmitting or the challenge of returning.

Quote from: Yargnit
The biggest changes you’ll notice early on are the requirement use SRB’s at first for heavier lifting, and that all early science must be returned to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 23, 2013, 02:27:45 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 23, 2013, 02:20:00 pm
if you can land on the Mun you can land on minmus with a few more boosters. 

actually, landing on minmus requires less fuel. if you can land on the mun and get back, you can probably land on minmus ( and come back) Without a couple of boosters
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2013, 02:31:18 pm
I personally feel like the stock tech tree is just fine. Maybe a few changes might be warranted here or there, but it fits well with the Kerbals way of doing things and makes some amount of sense if you think about it. Even the progression isn't terrible. You might get a huge jump at the beginning if you're good, but the other end of the tree takes a while to get through.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 23, 2013, 02:31:31 pm
i have reminded myself how to use the jet engines to get stuff into orbit

i now have a 77 ton launch vehicle which highly inefficiently delivers a 20 ton payload into 100km orbit. payload has an estimated 700 meters per second fuel left, so plenty to deorbit or do mass relay stuff or i don't know

Spoiler: huzzah (click to show/hide)

now to bring back my fabled super-heavy stufflifter and haul ass to jool
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 23, 2013, 02:52:11 pm
Good luck assembling a mission to land on Tylo with just landing legs, parachutes, and liquid engines.

In other news, the transfer from Moho to Eeloo is a 20-minute burn at .5g. 5Km/s dV.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 23, 2013, 02:54:57 pm
I sent a probe to orbit around Eve, then to send data, go down to the surface and send even more.

The probe landed on its side, but I flipped it upright by opening the radar dish, pushing it off the ground. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 23, 2013, 03:14:16 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 23, 2013, 03:04:18 pm
Well, that went fucking great.

Takes 2 days to land on kerbin, speed up time. I press the timewarp x1 button within time, but because the game likes slowly decreasing the speed, I crashed into kerbin.

OK, I'll load up a quicksave. 'Lolnope. The quicksave will simply cause everything in the solar system to disappear. ENJOY!'

Spend about and hour and a half getting to minmus, only to have the game throw it in my face.

Exact same thing happened a couple days ago for me, with Minmus as well. It's annoying as hell.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 04:08:36 pm
My Jool probe met the Hell Kraken. Again.

What did I ever do to you, eldritch abomination?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 23, 2013, 04:17:48 pm
I wonder if Jeb survived getting returned from orbit when I was away... Looked like a spashdown too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 04:47:55 pm
Well update on that sexy, sexy compound flyer.

Contrary to what someone suggested, the six turbojets work fine once they are in fact actual turbojets instead of rockets disguised as turbojets.
There was a small issue with the center of lift but that was fixed very quickly.

Unfortunately, I did not reach orbit, probably due to my horrendously terrible flight skills. The main jets, once they got air deprived, utterly flipped their shit...and also the plane. It continued flipping for a long, long time. I had detached those troublesome flight ruiners as quickly as possible, but to no avail.

By the time I regained control of the craft, we were WAY too far back in the atmosphere for the atomic engines to do anything constructive.

However, I can attest that air-dropping the miniplane from a similar-to-orbital-position IS just as satisfying and completely badass as I had hoped.
Even managed to get it all the way back to the KSP runway and land it. Granted said landing was very awkward and a bit too fast...and sideways, but the kerbal survived!

Overall, tweaking is DEFINATELY needed for this to be the craft I want it to be, but hey, the premise is at least sound.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 23, 2013, 04:48:36 pm
Quote from: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 04:08:36 pm
My Jool probe met the Hell Kraken. Again.

What did I ever do to you, eldritch abomination?

I keep getting it when I land planes and disembark the pilot. It's annoying as hell.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
Quote from: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 02:44:05 am
I love big rovers. Reminds me of my old Falinesti (http://imageshack.us/a/img189/5584/damd.png) design (http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2048/ujyi.png). What's the top speed and climbing angle on that rover?

5 m/s or so max speed on Mun. I did not try much climbing. It's certainly heavy due to plating.

11 m/s on Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 05:59:06 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
Quote from: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 02:44:05 am
I love big rovers. Reminds me of my old Falinesti (http://imageshack.us/a/img189/5584/damd.png) design (http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2048/ujyi.png). What's the top speed and climbing angle on that rover?

5 m/s or so max speed on Mun. I did not try much climbing. It's certainly heavy due to plating.
Clearly you must air drop it and see how much survives.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 06:37:21 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 05:59:06 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
Quote from: da_nang on October 23, 2013, 02:44:05 am
I love big rovers. Reminds me of my old Falinesti (http://imageshack.us/a/img189/5584/damd.png) design (http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2048/ujyi.png). What's the top speed and climbing angle on that rover?

5 m/s or so max speed on Mun. I did not try much climbing. It's certainly heavy due to plating.
Clearly you must air drop it and see how much survives.

50000 m up. It landed on its wheels at 116 m/s.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 06:47:12 pm
Did you even add parachutes?

Also: Kerbals survived, design is a success!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2013, 06:55:36 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 06:47:12 pm
Did you even add parachutes?

Also: Kerbals survived, design is a success!

Why would I add parachutes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 07:06:08 pm
In that case, very safe landing, considering anyone survived.

Try again with chutes this time?  You need to make a Duna hot-drop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 23, 2013, 07:16:22 pm
Well, the ship survived.

Except the science modules fell off.
Atleast nothing exploded.

Like the next launch did...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 23, 2013, 08:14:23 pm
Well, my Mission Controller funds have been negative since the disastrous second launch, in which I didn't have enough parachutes to slow the craft, and the third launch, which succeeded, but I forgot to click finish mission. Good thing this is government funded SCIENCE because it isn't really turning a profit yet. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 23, 2013, 08:23:52 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 07:06:08 pm
In that case, very safe landing, considering anyone survived.

Try again with chutes this time?  You need to make a Duna hot-drop.
Frankly his design looks like it would survive a hot-drop into the sun. Very sturdy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2013, 08:41:54 pm
Managed to get a couple of unmanned orbiters around Duna and Eve. I think it's about time I start planning something major, construction wise. Interplanetary is the goal and modular, reusable and upgradable is the plan.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on October 23, 2013, 08:54:16 pm
Huh. And reading up on the research in Mission Controller mod's new research (in its research tab), you almost aren't supposed to break even early on. Part costs start out at 120% of what they were before, with research to drop that to 100%, then 90%; as well as research to drop fuel costs by 20%, and getting a refund for recovery being researched as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 23, 2013, 09:12:17 pm
Sent another mission to the Mun, collected a reasonable amount of science given how little a challenge it was to return. Rover works, too, despite having a tendency to flip and no torque on it to counter rolling.

My Eve probe didn't make it into orbit, however: ran out of fuel whilst trying to bring it into orbit. Now it's just floating around the sun in an orbit that doesn't quite intersect Eve. I was considering making an ion-based probe, but decided against it on the basis that I don't want to spend five hours just trying to change my orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 23, 2013, 09:16:10 pm
IMO Mechjeb is required for ion drives and certain nuclear drives.  When the burn time is in tens of minutes, or even hours, being able to tell Mechjeb 'perform this maneuver' is basically the only way it'll actually happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 23, 2013, 10:42:55 pm
So I've been to the Mun and Minmus... and am looking into going to another planet. Any tips on how to make that happen?  Do you guys start from Kerbin orbit and burn or go from Sun orbit to, say, Duna? 'cause plotting intercepts is a whole lot harder (read, I couldn't do it).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 23, 2013, 11:48:51 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on October 23, 2013, 10:42:55 pm
So I've been to the Mun and Minmus... and am looking into going to another planet. Any tips on how to make that happen?  Do you guys start from Kerbin orbit and burn or go from Sun orbit to, say, Duna? 'cause plotting intercepts is a whole lot harder (read, I couldn't do it).

Eject myself from Kerbin, behind if I"m going to one of the inner planets, ahead of if I'm going outside. Slingshotting the Mun is optional, but I try to do it if possible. Adjust inclination at one of the nodes for my target planet. Then just add a planning maneuver to the orbit, bring the other side of the orbit close to my target's orbit, actually mark the target as a target and slowly drag the middle circle around the orbit until I get a pass that's reasonably close to my target. couple million km is easy, I've gotten lucky though with just a 80km periapsis around Eve once. Anything close is fine though, even if you're not in the SOI yet. Wait till that planned burn time and do it. Now pick a spot a bit closer, anywhere between 1/4 and 1/8 of the way around the orbit from your target intercept is fine, in my opinion. Make another planning maneuver. Adjust it up down, left right, back forth until you get something a bit closer. Again, don't have to be exact but you should try to have it in the SOI for this burn, at least. Wait for it. Do it. Assuming you at least pass through the SOI on this run, wait till you're just inside it, then make another planning maneuver. Play around with it again until you're comfortably close to the target. Wait for it. Do it. Wait till periapsis, close the orbit around target. Ta Da! You've arrived.

No special planning or math is needed unless you're running on an extremely tight fuel budget. Just play around with the planning nodes in the map and you'll get there, and don't forget that timing of the burn can be just as important as direction or amount. Don't forget to play with timing, as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2013, 01:07:18 am
I've also started using the method Sluissa described, even though it is inefficient due to the Oberth effect, when compared to waiting for the phase angle and burning straight from orbit(or even better, straight from the launchpad).
It is however more efficient in user-time, since you don't have to go to another craft to warp to the phase angle, and you don't need to look the phase angle up either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 01:13:40 am
Hey all!
Let me introduce you to the best new thing in this game, that I figured out once I loaded up Mechjeb and threw a few rockets at the ground.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Contrary to the name, I managed to get this up into orbit, and its the first space station core I did that successfully with.
But that's not really important.

What IS important is the very modular design, specifically those weird top boosters.
Now as we all know, attaching ANYTHING to a ship via docking ports is like putting a post-it note on a jet.
I won't lie, I had to add a lot of space tape to get that part working right.

HOWEVER, the REALLY cool thing I discovered during my first series of failures, was that Mechjeb acts as a command probe when it gets detached.
So I put my Mechjebs on the boosters.
Why?

So that when I send up my next ship, loaded with docking ports, I can detach the boosters from this station....AND HAVE THEM FLY THEMSELVES INTO DOCKING WITH THE NEW SHIP!!

AUTOBOTS ASSEMBLE!

I'll let you guys know how this turns out, feel free to experiment with the idea on your own.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 24, 2013, 01:28:41 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I assume the massive nuclear reactor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:31:59 am
For the boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 24, 2013, 01:52:44 am
Docking cam should help there if you got it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I'll admit this part slipped my mind on this first try...for now just hoping the Mechjeb unit uses little power.

Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 06:29:07 am
Maybe I should try that mechjeb. I can't dock to save my life. I did, however, land on Minmus (and Mun, had plenty of dV to spare and who needs landing legs when you've got fuel tanks to land on) in one mission. Then it was 3 AM :)


And then I see people do this and I feel like a noob: http://imgur.com/a/S60ie#0
Quote
KSP 0.22 first tech level grandish flyby tour
Using only the initial tech in career mode, this is a single mission that flies by Moho, Eve, Duna, Dres, Jool, Eeloo, and Mun, lands on Minmus, and returns safely to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 06:52:40 am
Quote from: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 06:29:07 am

And then I see people do this and I feel like a noob: http://imgur.com/a/S60ie#0
Quote
KSP 0.22 first tech level grandish flyby tour
Using only the initial tech in career mode, this is a single mission that flies by Moho, Eve, Duna, Dres, Jool, Eeloo, and Mun, lands on Minmus, and returns safely to Kerbin.


I am impressed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 07:45:08 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I'll admit this part slipped my mind on this first try...for now just hoping the Mechjeb unit uses little power.

Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.
Mechjeb can be sustained on one of the small non-solar generators.  The radio-whatever.  A single battery pack would probably keep it working enough for a mere docking maneuver.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 07:51:55 am
I managed to get an early sputnik-science-probe (with goo and materials lab) in Minmus' orbit using Mun as a slingshot, that netted me quite some Sciencepoints early on. These slingshot maneuvers are very powerful.

Also note how he did the Juno-mission type maneuver by using Kerbin several times as a slingshot to get out to Jool, and the use of the Oberth-effect (which I just read about now, but already noticed myself while playing :) ). Energy-efficiency is key in this game, and I'm getting the hang of planning maneuvers with the least amounts of dV. Now to try interplanetary travel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 08:02:28 am
Also notice how the mission took about 28 years.  Fuel efficiency is all about patience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 24, 2013, 08:10:09 am
And here I am having to push my Mun lander to a stop with a jetpack just to get back to Kerbin.


One deficiency of the science system is that it doesn't take into account engineering challenges that don't take you to new places.  I'd say building a space station is as major an undertaking as a moon landing, maybe more of one in this game, but science system doesn't have a way of gauging that, since there isn't any kind of "Skylab" functionality for long term science gain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 08:12:07 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 08:02:28 am
Also notice how the mission took about 28 years.  Fuel efficiency is all about patience.
Yeah, hence my 3 AM Minmus-and-Mun landing-and-return. I really need some sleep...

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 24, 2013, 08:19:42 am
Alright, I guess I gots to read up on a ton of stuff. I had somewhat of a hard time understanding sluissa's explanation. I'll read up on Oberth and Hohman stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 08:26:12 am
Oberth as I understand it is pretty simple: burn hard at periapsis gives you SIGNIFICANTLY more bang for your buck than anywhere else in your orbit, depending on the difference between apoapsis and periapsis, and the distance between periapsis and object (large difference and small periapsis = more bang).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 08:33:30 am
Oberth is simple, and you probably already use it.  If you start at your periapsis (low point) and burn prograde (the direction you're moving) you increase your speed and your apoapsis (high point) MUCH more easily than if you tried to burn at any other point.  It's Space-Explosions-101, always change your orbit at apo and peri.

Homman Transfer I'm less sure on.  But the most basic idea is to not just burn towards the intercept you want.  You need to glide into it, following the target's orbit to match your apoapsis.  It's best to start from a very circular orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 24, 2013, 08:47:28 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 08:33:30 am
Homman Transfer I'm less sure on.  But the most basic idea is to not just burn towards the intercept you want.  You need to glide into it, following the target's orbit to match your apoapsis.  It's best to start from a very circular orbit.

hohmann transfers are serious business (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IX6ykVb0xifBrB4BRFDpqPO6kjYiLvOcEo3zwmZL0sQ/edit?pli=1)

there's a reason i barely ever do them manually
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 09:05:14 am
A Hohmann transfer is basically any semi-elliptic transfer between orbits, without course corrections between leaving one orbit and entering another. I.e. low orbit -> accelerate at low periapsis, get higher apoapsis, accelerate at higher apoapsis, ger equal periapsis -> new orbit. The only difficulty is in doing them efficiently - eyeballing them is peanuts with the maneuver node system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2013, 09:11:37 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 09:05:14 am
A Hohmann transfer is basically any semi-elliptic transfer between orbits, without course corrections between leaving one orbit and entering another. I.e. low orbit -> accelerate at low periapsis, get higher apoapsis, accelerate at higher apoapsis, ger equal periapsis -> new orbit. The only difficulty is in doing them efficiently - eyeballing them is peanuts with the maneuver node system.

A Hohman transfer is basically, the normal way we do transfer...
Let's say you want a higher orbit, so you burn at periapsis to raise your apoapsis, then burn again at apoapsis to circularise: that's the essence of a Hohman transfer.

Now this seems fairly obvious to anybody having played KSP for more than an hour, but remember: Hohman proposed this in 1925, waaay before any space flight was possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:15:38 am
That's just an orbital transfer.  A Homman Transfer is going to a specific orbit at a specific time to intercept another body.  It's an exercise in timing and very mathy to get right, but somewhat possible to eyeball it when you've been playing a few... weeks...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on October 24, 2013, 09:16:02 am
The in game tutorial is actually really helpful for anyone just getting in to the game to learn basic orbital maneuvers. They're really easy once you've had them explained and used them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 24, 2013, 09:16:25 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 24, 2013, 08:47:28 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 08:33:30 am
Homman Transfer I'm less sure on.  But the most basic idea is to not just burn towards the intercept you want.  You need to glide into it, following the target's orbit to match your apoapsis.  It's best to start from a very circular orbit.

hohmann transfers are serious business (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IX6ykVb0xifBrB4BRFDpqPO6kjYiLvOcEo3zwmZL0sQ/edit?pli=1)

there's a reason i barely ever do them manually
Well, there are sheets for phase angles out there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 09:24:20 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I'll admit this part slipped my mind on this first try...for now just hoping the Mechjeb unit uses little power.

Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.

Mechjeb does not do any alignment when docking. Default values will have it slamming vehicle against vehicle. Things will bounce around a bit. It'll dock but it's a wild ride and things will be askew.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 09:26:45 am
It's really much less player-time-intensive to use bi-elliptic transfers than waiting for windows for true Hohmann transfers.

A true Hohmann transfer requires that you use a very specific point in your orbit to arrive at the target, and use it at a very specific time to actually arrive at your target. Whereas with a bi-elliptic transfer, if you are significantly in front of, or behind, the target you want, you can tune the time you take to arrive at the target by simply extending or contracting the apoapsis of your bi-elliptic transfer's midpoint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 24, 2013, 09:31:29 am
I'm pretty sure that it's going to be impossible for me to get anymore science without Struts and Fuel Lines, D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:35:08 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 09:24:20 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I'll admit this part slipped my mind on this first try...for now just hoping the Mechjeb unit uses little power.

Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.

Mechjeb does not do any alignment when docking. Default values will have it slamming vehicle against vehicle. Things will bounce around a bit. It'll dock but it's a wild ride and things will be askew.
Dunno what version of Mechjeb you're using, but when I tried it ran extremely well for auto-docking.  Just use [ and ] to swap to the docking target and 'face away from target' (assuming docking port is on backside of rocket) and then swap to the ship moving in to dock, and select the port and run it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 09:44:11 am
How do I figure out what altitude to make my gravity turns at during launch to LKO?  I have the impression that a small craft should do it around 6 km while a larger one should do it later but haven't found any information on how much later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 09:46:21 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:35:08 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 09:24:20 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 01:16:12 am
What'll you do for power?
I'll admit this part slipped my mind on this first try...for now just hoping the Mechjeb unit uses little power.

Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.

Mechjeb does not do any alignment when docking. Default values will have it slamming vehicle against vehicle. Things will bounce around a bit. It'll dock but it's a wild ride and things will be askew.
Dunno what version of Mechjeb you're using, but when I tried it ran extremely well for auto-docking.  Just use [ and ] to swap to the docking target and 'face away from target' (assuming docking port is on backside of rocket) and then swap to the ship moving in to dock, and select the port and run it.

I am using the latest version. Crafts will dock but mechjeb doesn't care about final alignment when docked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 24, 2013, 09:47:13 am
IIRC, Mechjeb should list the phase angles somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 09:50:38 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 09:26:45 am
It's really much less player-time-intensive to use bi-elliptic transfers than waiting for windows for true Hohmann transfers.

A true Hohmann transfer requires that you use a very specific point in your orbit to arrive at the target, and use it at a very specific time to actually arrive at your target. Whereas with a bi-elliptic transfer, if you are significantly in front of, or behind, the target you want, you can tune the time you take to arrive at the target by simply extending or contracting the apoapsis of your bi-elliptic transfer's midpoint.
That is actually not a bad idea... I might try that move some time. But the time-compression means that player-time wise it's not that much of an improvement. Using a Hohmann transfer one ideally only needs two burn-moments, where bi-elliptic needs 3, and getting your craft in a specific location in orbit is just a manner of pressing fast-forward a few times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2013, 09:55:39 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:15:38 am
That's just an orbital transfer.  A Homman Transfer is going to a specific orbit at a specific time to intercept another body.  It's an exercise in timing and very mathy to get right, but somewhat possible to eyeball it when you've been playing a few... weeks...

Nope, orbital transfer = Hohman transfer

Wikipedia:
"In orbital mechanics, the Hohmann transfer orbit is an elliptical orbit used to transfer between two circular orbits of different altitudes, in the same plane."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 10:00:23 am
Quote from: Siquo on October 24, 2013, 09:50:38 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 09:26:45 am
It's really much less player-time-intensive to use bi-elliptic transfers than waiting for windows for true Hohmann transfers.

A true Hohmann transfer requires that you use a very specific point in your orbit to arrive at the target, and use it at a very specific time to actually arrive at your target. Whereas with a bi-elliptic transfer, if you are significantly in front of, or behind, the target you want, you can tune the time you take to arrive at the target by simply extending or contracting the apoapsis of your bi-elliptic transfer's midpoint.
That is actually not a bad idea... I might try that move some time. But the time-compression means that player-time wise it's not that much of an improvement. Using a Hohmann transfer one ideally only needs two burn-moments, where bi-elliptic needs 3, and getting your craft in a specific location in orbit is just a manner of pressing fast-forward a few times.
True, assuming you're in interplanetary space or high enough above something that you can timewarp with impunity. But if you want to start at a specific time, for instance to maximize gain from the Oberth effect or something, it might be useful. A neat little trick to know, in any case. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 10:00:59 am
Quote from: ank on October 24, 2013, 09:55:39 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:15:38 am
That's just an orbital transfer.  A Homman Transfer is going to a specific orbit at a specific time to intercept another body.  It's an exercise in timing and very mathy to get right, but somewhat possible to eyeball it when you've been playing a few... weeks...

Nope, orbital transfer = Hohman transfer

Wikipedia:
"In orbital mechanics, the Hohmann transfer orbit is an elliptical orbit used to transfer between two circular orbits of different altitudes, in the same plane."
What would NOT be a Homman then?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 10:03:55 am
An orbital transfer to an orbit with a different anything, except peri/apoapsis. A Hohmann transfer is two "straight ahead" burns. No midcourse corrections, no inclination change, no eccentricity change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 24, 2013, 10:28:25 am
Except that outside of a game with nice clean math, that never happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2013, 10:32:18 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 10:00:59 am
Quote from: ank on October 24, 2013, 09:55:39 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:15:38 am
That's just an orbital transfer.  A Homman Transfer is going to a specific orbit at a specific time to intercept another body.  It's an exercise in timing and very mathy to get right, but somewhat possible to eyeball it when you've been playing a few... weeks...

Nope, orbital transfer = Hohman transfer

Wikipedia:
"In orbital mechanics, the Hohmann transfer orbit is an elliptical orbit used to transfer between two circular orbits of different altitudes, in the same plane."
What would NOT be a Homman then?

Like the direct transfer method where you basically just burn towards your target, then burn retrograde halfway, also known as Stupid Transfer... I can't recall the actual name, but someone brought it up in this thread months ago, it's from a sci-fi novel where their ship basically had infinite weightless fuel... so yeah...

Also as Sean said.

Hohmann transfers are the true bread and butter of space travel.

Also, this is not aimed at you, but I've seen a lot of people spelling it Homman, but it's Hohmann.
(I know I misspelled it Hohman before)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 10:37:22 am
Oh. Newer mechjeb. The pod is back. Now you can be watched. It's also capable of reaching almost 20000 m up on Kerbin all by itself. Top tier experimental research.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Quote from: ank on October 24, 2013, 10:32:18 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 10:00:59 am
Quote from: ank on October 24, 2013, 09:55:39 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 09:15:38 am
That's just an orbital transfer.  A Homman Transfer is going to a specific orbit at a specific time to intercept another body.  It's an exercise in timing and very mathy to get right, but somewhat possible to eyeball it when you've been playing a few... weeks...

Nope, orbital transfer = Hohman transfer

Wikipedia:
"In orbital mechanics, the Hohmann transfer orbit is an elliptical orbit used to transfer between two circular orbits of different altitudes, in the same plane."
What would NOT be a Homman then?

Like the direct transfer method where you basically just burn towards your target, then burn retrograde halfway, also known as Stupid Transfer... I can't recall the actual name, but someone brought it up in this thread months ago, it's from a sci-fi novel where their ship basically had infinite weightless fuel... so yeah...
It's not all that stupid an idea. I think it's called a "Brachistochrone trajectory".

Also, it's not that the fuel is crazy light, it's that the engine is incredibly efficient at burning it, with the Isp in tens of thousands and can generate quite a lot of power.

It's an entirely plausible concept and incredibly viable in various midfuture hard sci-fi settings (like most of Heinlein's work), it's just that right now we cannot create anything as incredibly efficient as such an engine, so we rely on good ol' Hohmann, our lord and saviour of Orbital Mechanics, to get anywhere..


Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). Or something very much like one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 24, 2013, 12:01:57 pm
Anyone know a good, up-to-date mod that has spherical fuel tanks? Just for aesthetical purposes :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 12:13:37 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on October 24, 2013, 12:01:57 pm
Anyone know a good, up-to-date mod that has spherical fuel tanks? Just for aesthetical purposes :P

Here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/30673-0-22-Spherical-and-Toridal-Tank-Pack-%28Updated-10-20-13%29)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 24, 2013, 12:17:36 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29)
Quote
Project Orion was a study of a spacecraft intended to be directly propelled by a series of explosions of atomic bombs behind the craft.
Someone mod that part in. I want to see Jebediah on an External Command Seat flying through space with a line of detonating nuclear bombs powering the spaceship from behind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 12:21:21 pm
It's already been modded, animated pusher plate and all!  At the last I'd heard, it actually still ran on rocket fuel and oxidizer because there wasn't enough framework to add resources.  It was also possible to use to takeoff with, as it didn't care about bombing nukes at the ground :P

In real life, nuclear explosions have been outlawed in space, simply because we don't know what it'll do to the magnetosphere.

Nuclear weapons have also been outlawed to be transported in space - this is to prevent nuclear missile satellites that could start a nuclear war, but the danger there is strictly political as we fear the bombs being dropped on cities.  Bombs in space are a whole other thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 24, 2013, 12:25:17 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 12:13:37 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on October 24, 2013, 12:01:57 pm
Anyone know a good, up-to-date mod that has spherical fuel tanks? Just for aesthetical purposes :P

Here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/30673-0-22-Spherical-and-Toridal-Tank-Pack-%28Updated-10-20-13%29)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 12:29:12 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 12:21:21 pm
It's already been modded, animated pusher plate and all!  At the last I'd heard, it actually still ran on rocket fuel and oxidizer because there wasn't enough framework to add resources.  It was also possible to use to takeoff with, as it didn't care about bombing nukes at the ground :P

It's for the .17 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom), I think.


Quote from: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 12:21:21 pm
Nuclear weapons have also been outlawed to be transported in space - this is to prevent nuclear missile satellites that could start a nuclear war, but the danger there is strictly political as we fear the bombs being dropped on cities.  Bombs in space are a whole other thing.
Orbital nuclear rocket silos make sense until you consider that there is no stealth in space and that when you launch anything from orbit, it'll be known in a matter of seconds and properly dealth with. There are rockets designed to take down satellites that can be launched from a normal jet fighter for chrissake, so ground-based nuclear silos are much more practical in that they can actually be concealed by the landscape and the fact the rocket won't be visible on radar until it reaches a certain height.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 12:30:29 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). Or something very much like one.

You could also imagine picking up stray atoms during the trip.  There is about 1 stray atom of hydrogen per cubic centimeter in space.  The distance to Alpha Centauri is 4.3 lightyears, or 4*10^18 centimeters.  Create a net 10 kilometers across and the volume of the flux traveled is going to be 4*10^30.  Multiply by an atomic mass of 1.6 *10^-27 kilograms and you are left with a about 6 and a half metric tons of scavenged matter to use.

That's assuming that my math checks out and I didn't drop a power of 10 somewhere.  Gotta run.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 12:33:57 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.

Yeah, but it requires RCS. It's possible to dock manually with liquid engines, but it's really hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 12:35:19 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 12:30:29 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). Or something very much like one.

You could also imagine picking up stray atoms during the trip.  There is about 1 stray atom of hydrogen per cubic centimeter in space.  The distance to Alpha Centauri is 4.3 lightyears, or 4*10^18 centimeters.  Create a net 10 kilometers across and the volume of the flux traveled is going to be 4*10^30.  Multiply by an atomic mass of 1.6 *10^-27 kilograms and you are left with a about 6 and a half metric tons of scavenged matter to use.

That's assuming that my math checks out and I didn't drop a power of 10 somewhere.  Gotta run.
That's called a Bussard Ramjet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet) and it's quite possibly one of the most amazing things ever.

The only bad thing is that the distribution of hydrogen atoms in Earth's local cluster is relatively low when compared to the rest of the universe, making these things incredibly unwieldy here.

Not to mention the fact that they're only getting infinite fuel while on interstellar travels, or travelling at Ludicrous Speedtm. The rest of the time, they have to get by like the rest of us puny mortals and have limited fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 24, 2013, 12:37:59 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 12:33:57 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 05:51:05 am
Quote from: garfield751 on October 24, 2013, 01:46:53 am
Lining up the boosters properly is also going to be a pain.
Um....MECHJEB. I'm pretty sure it has autodocking.

Yeah, but it requires RCS. It's possible to dock manually with liquid engines, but it's really hard.
In this particular case, his nuclear autopilot drives do have RCS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 24, 2013, 12:38:37 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 12:30:29 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). Or something very much like one.

You could also imagine picking up stray atoms during the trip.  There is about 1 stray atom of hydrogen per cubic centimeter in space.  The distance to Alpha Centauri is 4.3 lightyears, or 4*10^18 centimeters.  Create a net 10 kilometers across and the volume of the flux traveled is going to be 4*10^30.  Multiply by an atomic mass of 1.6 *10^-27 kilograms and you are left with a about 6 and a half metric tons of scavenged matter to use.

That's assuming that my math checks out and I didn't drop a power of 10 somewhere.  Gotta run.

Interesting. That sounds reasonable. You'd need cray cray ISP and non-specific fuel to make use of that, though. Ion engines come to mind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 12:41:02 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50685-Modular-Base-Creation-Kit

interesting what people do with subassemblies
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 12:43:16 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 24, 2013, 12:38:37 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 12:30:29 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 24, 2013, 11:33:41 am
Although, there is ONE way with which we could achieve such a trajectory with current technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). Or something very much like one.

You could also imagine picking up stray atoms during the trip.  There is about 1 stray atom of hydrogen per cubic centimeter in space.  The distance to Alpha Centauri is 4.3 lightyears, or 4*10^18 centimeters.  Create a net 10 kilometers across and the volume of the flux traveled is going to be 4*10^30.  Multiply by an atomic mass of 1.6 *10^-27 kilograms and you are left with a about 6 and a half metric tons of scavenged matter to use.

That's assuming that my math checks out and I didn't drop a power of 10 somewhere.  Gotta run.

Interesting. That sounds reasonable. You'd need cray cray ISP and non-specific fuel to make use of that, though. Ion engines come to mind.
Eh, Liquid Hydrogen reigns supreme in the propellant department.

The best engines to use would most likely be some sort of a fusion or gas-core nuclear engines due to their large thrust (compared to the puny thrust of an Ion engine)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 01:31:12 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 24, 2013, 12:38:37 pm
Interesting. That sounds reasonable. You'd need cray cray ISP and non-specific fuel to make use of that, though. Ion engines come to mind.

Well there's no way you are even going to seriously consider interstellar propulsion without a very high ISP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 24, 2013, 02:36:57 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 12:41:02 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50685-Modular-Base-Creation-Kit

interesting what people do with subassemblies
Reminds me of what I did with robotics awhile ago.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Was fun, but the quickly growing debris field was making it a little to lagy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
We are fine with useing it for power. Just cant power weapons with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 02:59:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
We are fine with useing it for power.

Unless you're Iran. "We" is conditional.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:07:47 pm
In space we are fine.
Afterall, easier to target it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 24, 2013, 03:20:06 pm
Still, I don't see us ever allowing several nuclear explosions in the atmosphere, just to launch a spacecraft.

But aren't they actually working on a fusion drive, using lithium? Not throwing bombs behind it, but an actual engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 03:21:15 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
We are fine with useing it for power. Just cant power weapons with it.

Good rockets have failure rates between 1%-5%.  You sure you want to put radioactive material in there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:27:51 pm
Tell that to the US and russia. Both have done it, its what powered the Voyagers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 03:43:41 pm
Plus, y'know, all those high-energy, high-efficiency plasma thrusters. VASIMR, MPDT, etc. They draw so much electricity that the only way to adequately power them is with a compact nuclear reactor. Micro-scale reactors for such purposes have been confirmed to be in development here in Russia, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 03:46:02 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:27:51 pm
Tell that to the US and russia. Both have done it, its what powered the Voyagers.

quite a difference between alpha radiation of a rtg and an engine continuously fissing stuff with all kind of bad things being emitted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:55:50 pm
True.

As for small things, there have been fridge sized reactors made in the US. Apparently by Kodak. Perhaps its was for spy sats...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2013, 03:56:42 pm
"An engine continuously fissing stuff" is a phrase worthy of an award in Kerbal nuclear physics. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 03:57:53 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:55:50 pm
True.

As for small things, there have been fridge sized reactors made in the US. Apparently by Kodak. Perhaps its was for spy sats...

fridge sized must be a standard
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:58:49 pm
Not RTG, just straight up reactor.
Like the sorta thing you see in nuke subs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 24, 2013, 04:03:01 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 03:21:15 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
We are fine with useing it for power. Just cant power weapons with it.
Good rockets have failure rates between 1%-5%.  You sure you want to put radioactive material in there?
Not all failures result in deorbit/ destruction of the craft. Most failures don't, but just dump the craft in the wrong orbit. Complete failures are rather rare.

Additionally, pretty much every outer system mission carries nuclear material (though recently, they ran out of Plutonium 86, the most useful isotope). And even if the mission failed terribly, the results wouldn't be that disastrous. I mean, the amount of nuclear material inside a pocket nuclear reactor is limited, most of the time it has it's own, separate protection, and even if it doesn't, the nuclear material will be spread out to much for people to notice. ((Also, at launch the reactor isn't active yet, meaning that it doesn't contain any high level radioactive products.))

Besides, nuclear material in sattelites has been dumped back on earth on several occasions, the most famous being Apollo 13. (The LM was equipped with an RTG to provide power to a series of long running experiments.)

Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2013, 03:46:02 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:27:51 pm
Tell that to the US and russia. Both have done it, its what powered the Voyagers.
quite a difference between alpha radiation of a rtg and an engine continuously fissing stuff with all kind of bad things being emitted.
Spatial background radiation is several times stronger than that emitted by a modern, properly functioning reactor.

Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 03:55:50 pm
True.
As for small things, there have been fridge sized reactors made in the US. Apparently by Kodak. Perhaps its was for spy sats...
Doubt it. After all, I'd be worried if your spy sat draws that much power, and a nuclear generator is a thermal generator. It needs to dump a lot of waste heat. For submarines, this is quite easy, but a nuclear satellite needs to carry huge radiators.

Not the kind of thing you want on your stealth sattelites.

Infodump (http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Nuclear-Fuel-Cycle/Power-Reactors/Small-Nuclear-Power-Reactors/#.UmmL0Wz8K70)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 24, 2013, 04:21:39 pm
Polonium 86, you mean. Plutonium has more protons than that. And it's artificial, so if they actually ran out they could just make more.

Even an unshielded reactor wouldn't be much danger, honestly. Unless it actually melted down, it would still be emitting mostly fast particle and electromagnetic radiation, both of which aren't really that deadly and tend to go away quickly anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 04:24:28 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 24, 2013, 04:03:01 pm

Doubt it. After all, I'd be worried if your spy sat draws that much power, and a nuclear generator is a thermal generator. It needs to dump a lot of waste heat. For submarines, this is quite easy, but a nuclear satellite needs to carry huge radiators.

Still happened. As for stealth things they dident really need to be all that stealthy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 24, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 24, 2013, 04:21:39 pm
Polonium 86, you mean. Plutonium has more protons than that. And it's artificial, so if they actually ran out they could just make more.

Even an unshielded reactor wouldn't be much danger, honestly. Unless it actually melted down, it would still be emitting mostly fast particle and electromagnetic radiation, both of which aren't really that deadly and tend to go away quickly anyway.
Meant  Plutonium 238  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238). Which can also be made, but there are currently no reprocessing plants making it in operation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 05:15:36 pm
Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 03:21:15 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 24, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
We are fine with useing it for power. Just cant power weapons with it.

Good rockets have failure rates between 1%-5%.  You sure you want to put radioactive material in there?

They decided that we aren't allowed to use them in the atmosphere over 50 years ago. It's really not a big problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 05:30:10 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 24, 2013, 04:03:01 pm

All these safeguards are applicable to very small amounts of materails used in a slow fissile manner.  It's a lot less easy to put a safety envelope around your second or third stage engines, especially considering the sheer size that a nuclear engine would require.

Yes there isn't any danger of a fissile chain reaction leading to an explosion.  There is however a pretty significant concern that you might detonate a dirty bomb over florida and lead to massive economic fallout.

The technological hurdles to do this safetly aren't insurmountable but they won't be solved anytime soon.  There are much more promising avenues of exploration for high velocity propulsion methods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 24, 2013, 05:40:27 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 24, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
Meant  Plutonium 238  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238). Which can also be made, but there are currently no reprocessing plants making it in operation.
I was talking about the plutonium when I said it could be made. I'm not sure polonium is transmutable.

Quote from: mainiac on October 24, 2013, 05:30:10 pm
All these safeguards are applicable to very small amounts of materails used in a slow fissile manner.  It's a lot less easy to put a safety envelope around your second or third stage engines, especially considering the sheer size that a nuclear engine would require.

Yes there isn't any danger of a fissile chain reaction leading to an explosion.  There is however a pretty significant concern that you might detonate a dirty bomb over florida and lead to massive economic fallout.

The technological hurdles to do this safetly aren't insurmountable but they won't be solved anytime soon.  There are much more promising avenues of exploration for high velocity propulsion methods.

I don't think a NERVA engine could actually melt down. It's supposed to spend all its heat on the propellant. Even if it did, it would do so in space, since it doesn't even get used in the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 24, 2013, 07:08:57 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.
We'll be sure to do it over your house :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.

(http://i.bnet.com/blogs/sun_sound1_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leyic on October 24, 2013, 07:35:30 pm
A variant of the "launch-rockets-with-nuclear-explosions" technology is actually on NASA's roadmap. Go here (http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/roadmaps/), access TA01, go to pages 18 and 27 of the .pdf, and look for "External Pulsed Plasma". Readiness for limited flight testing is anticipated for the early 2020's. However, the report later dismisses nuclear (launch) propulsion as being "non-credible", and it was written by scientists and engineers, so it's not reflective of policy or budgetary limitations.

I wouldn't expect the later to be a problem for the Kerbals.

Fake edit: Stars don't have containment vessels to melt through, hence they're not in a state of meltdown. They're also mostly not metal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 24, 2013, 07:39:45 pm
Hydrogen can be metallic!

Also stars are always in a constant state of meltdown. Just look at Miley Cyrus!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 08:05:51 pm
Probably some decompiling nonsense or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 24, 2013, 08:19:17 pm
Velocities are given if you mouse over the planet, and SMA can be calculated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 09:22:07 pm
Vroom vroom
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 24, 2013, 10:09:42 pm
As a matter of fact, I do not dare to kiss those lips. However, have you considered using a landing strut or two to flip it back upright in the event of a roll?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2013, 10:21:44 pm
When it flips something blows up. If it's still controllable it could easily flip itself back over in low G. Just don't turn it too quickly and it's fine.

I kinda started fiddling with build a dinosaur, but the way parts connect and where they connect is making it very difficult. The only way I can see doing it is using oodles of the tiny box frames as contact points. Even then a Mecha Gojira would be a nightmare to build.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 01:15:05 am
Quote from: XxoriginxX on October 24, 2013, 08:05:14 pm
Out of curiosity, are the velocities of the planets or the length of their semimajor axis given anywhere in the game, or do people just fiddle with what is given to you (at least in career mode) to get values?

When you select a planet two small icon appears on the left side of the screen, center height, with miscellaneous information. I remember some numbers here but cannot remember what because I navigate with nodes and not math.

Also, wiki.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 25, 2013, 03:20:37 am
A question for people mining Kethane - is it possible to fully deplete a Kethane deposit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 25, 2013, 04:11:17 am
Launched a manned mission to Eve, having already done probe flybys, to land and get a soil sample.

Miscalculated (well, miscontrolled actually...first time using Mechjeb and I foolishly assumed that the 'land at target' button would take account of remaining fuel) and ran out of fuel.

Kerbal now stranded, in lander, in elongated orbit of Eve.  Also in a mess of stupidity, I realised that I forgot to add a probe controller onto my orbit stage, so the lander can't even reconnect with that (as it's now debris).  :-[

So, fuel-filled rescue mission en route!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 25, 2013, 04:20:05 am
You can still reconnect to the orbital stage, you just have to turn debris tracking on in the options.

And yes, you can deplete kethane deposits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 25, 2013, 05:20:53 am
Quote from: ank on October 25, 2013, 04:20:05 am
You can still reconnect to the orbital stage, you just have to turn debris tracking on in the options.

Ah, didn't realise that.  Still, it appears the Kraken has saved me from even that mistake - logged back into my game to find that the Eve-orbiting craft had simply...vanished.  No debris.  No nothing.  Just gone.  The piloting kerbal is listed in the Astronaut Centre as 'Missing In Action'.

Sigh.  Oh well.  Back to the drawing board!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 06:00:47 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on October 25, 2013, 03:20:37 am
A question for people mining Kethane - is it possible to fully deplete a Kethane deposit?

Interested as well. Wen I use up an hex will it still flow from near hexes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 07:18:07 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.

(http://i.bnet.com/blogs/sun_sound1_h.jpg)
You know, I'm really not sure what to make of you sometimes Silly Putty.
On the one hand, practically everything you post is a sarcastic, sometimes almost scathing response to a simple, easy-to-do mistake on someone else's part.

But on the other hand, you do it so goddamn well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 07:34:33 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 07:18:07 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.

SUNSNIP
You know, I'm really not sure what to make of you sometimes Silly Putty.
On the one hand, practically everything you post is a sarcastic, sometimes almost scathing response to a simple, easy-to-do mistake on someone else's part.

But on the other hand, you do it so goddamn well.

silly putty

why did i not come up with this

this is going to be used so many times when i reference putnam which is never
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 07:37:50 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 07:18:07 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 24, 2013, 07:06:41 pm
A nuclear meltdown in space would be awesome. A sphere of molten metal throwing out neutrons like they're going out of style.

(http://i.bnet.com/blogs/sun_sound1_h.jpg)
You know, I'm really not sure what to make of you sometimes Silly Putty.
On the one hand, practically everything you post is a sarcastic, sometimes almost scathing response to a simple, easy-to-do mistake on someone else's part.

But on the other hand, you do it so goddamn well.
The thing is... he's not wrong either...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:09:14 am
I slapped into the water at 10 m/s because the parachute disappears near the ground and lost all of my four goo pods T_T So much science lost...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 25, 2013, 08:15:09 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:09:14 am
I slapped into the water at 10 m/s because the parachute disappears near the ground and lost all of my four goo pods T_T So much science lost...
Turn on debris and you Still might be able to recover them from the tracking station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 08:17:46 am
Finished the campaign tree finally, with a trip to laythe. Never had this much fun.

Now I'm playing with kethane, kas, far and deadly reentry and I am soo much better at anything.

Landers that were at 75ton now have 50 with the same dv and more optionals, probes and rovers are in the sub ton range and launch vehicles are soo much small and simpler...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:51:07 am
I think I ran out of Science sources. :x I'm only at like General Rocketry and Survivability (roughly second or third layer in the tree), and I think I ran out of things to do. Doing the goo experiments again don't give me more science :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 09:04:05 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...

Let me get home and I'll pm some screenshots
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: inteuniso on October 25, 2013, 09:18:38 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:51:07 am
I think I ran out of Science sources. :x I'm only at like General Rocketry and Survivability (roughly second or third layer in the tree), and I think I ran out of things to do. Doing the goo experiments again don't give me more science :c

Build a bigger rocket, go to different places. Being close to a different celestial body will yield more science points for the same actions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 09:19:28 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 09:04:05 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...

Let me get home and I'll pm some screenshots
Just post 'em on thread, I'm sure many of us would like to see some very small crafts that actually function.  In particular, I've always liked the idea of rovers but been unable to find much use for them, and my very small probes can never go very far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 25, 2013, 09:24:34 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 09:19:28 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 09:04:05 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...

Let me get home and I'll pm some screenshots
Just post 'em on thread, I'm sure many of us would like to see some very small crafts that actually function.  In particular, I've always liked the idea of rovers but been unable to find much use for them, and my very small probes can never go very far.

Agreed, I also find light probes interesting and would like to see them. Plus, the thread could always use more pictures of rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 09:35:07 am
Quote from: inteuniso on October 25, 2013, 09:18:38 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:51:07 am
I think I ran out of Science sources. :x I'm only at like General Rocketry and Survivability (roughly second or third layer in the tree), and I think I ran out of things to do. Doing the goo experiments again don't give me more science :c

Build a bigger rocket, go to different places. Being close to a different celestial body will yield more science points for the same actions.
The problem is I don't seem to have enough science points to buy parts for bigger rockets :C
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 09:42:23 am
Do you have fuel lines?  If so, asparagus will get you surprisingly far.

If not, use liquid boosters - position them like you'd use SRB, but use proper rockets instead.  If you do 6-way symmetry and only fire them in pairs, you can extend your lifting stage.  Upper stages can use the 909 for better fuel economy on the long haul.

A few easy science points
Minmus Landing (easier than Mun, actually)
Solar Orbit right outside Kerbin SOI (target Kerbin and burn directly towards target for a simple return trajectory)
Other places on Kerbin (been to the poles yet?)
The Same Places (lower returns, but you can re-science them!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 25, 2013, 10:08:29 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 09:35:07 am
Quote from: inteuniso on October 25, 2013, 09:18:38 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 08:51:07 am
I think I ran out of Science sources. :x I'm only at like General Rocketry and Survivability (roughly second or third layer in the tree), and I think I ran out of things to do. Doing the goo experiments again don't give me more science :c

Build a bigger rocket, go to different places. Being close to a different celestial body will yield more science points for the same actions.
The problem is I don't seem to have enough science points to buy parts for bigger rockets :C

Just go back to the Mun and Minmus, they likely have oodles of science left.
Did you get science from high orbit, low orbit and ground on both moons?
Did you get science and surface samples from every biome on the Mun?
Did you ever go to the Mun yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 25, 2013, 10:19:54 am
How do you find out the different biomes? And where they are?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 10:21:06 am
Eyeball it mostly.  Planting flags helps track your progress.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 25, 2013, 10:26:09 am
Also, just repeating the obvious, but remember that EVA can also be used for science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 10:35:14 am
And crew report. Don't forget to bring new experiments to old places!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 25, 2013, 11:24:20 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...

1 ton or less in a probe is difficult. Even without RCS/rockets and with just parachutes for atmospheric landing and all science equipment the probe will top 1 ton. You need specialized probes and/or a tug to toss it on to and off of the surface.

1 ton hunk of metal
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
sub 2 ton capable of de-orbiting and docking
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 11:25:40 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on October 25, 2013, 10:26:09 am
Also, just repeating the obvious, but remember that EVA can also be used for science.
o.o

I never thought of that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 11:29:20 am
uhh

i'm unsure of whenever i can reproduce this, but while conducting orbital transfers in eva i've managed to slow down to 0.0m/s and was offered the option to take a soil sample of the void and plant a flag on it for a split second (before gravity started working again)

if you ask why i were conducting orbital transfers in eva, easy - crew transfer from craft in high kerbal orbit to another in minmus orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 11:29:47 am
The thing is, I don't have the equipment for even getting into low earth orbit yet <_< No side couplers, only have short fat fuel tanks, no probes, no science stuff other than the goo, no nothing D: I barely have 4 techs researched.

I do think I could manage to barely get into LEO and promptly be stranded with no way to go back, but it'll be a struggle without all the niceties one gets used to in sandbox mode :P


I found that getting into EVA on the launch pad and collecting samples from the pad, runway, ground, and ocean also gives you some science , but it's really tedious to start a mission, walk in EVA all the way to a site, and trudge back to the pod, repeatedly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 11:32:58 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 11:29:47 am
The thing is, I don't have the equipment for even getting into low earth orbit yet <_< No side couplers, only have short fat fuel tanks, no probes, no science stuff other than the goo, no nothing D: I barely have 4 techs researched.

I do think I could manage to barely get into LEO and promptly be stranded with no way to go back, but it'll be a struggle without all the niceties one gets used to in sandbox mode :P


I found that getting into EVA on the launch pad and collecting samples from the pad, runway, ground, and ocean also gives you some science , but it's really tedious to start a mission, walk in EVA all the way to a site, and trudge back to the pod, repeatedly.

you need to purposefully overheat stuff as a means of decoupling

consider a six-tank monstrosity of a main stage strapped to seven boosters at the bottom (one directly, six in symmetry with the first one)

once the boosters are starting to run out fire the liquid engine (you brought one, didn't you?) and simply overheat the booster below it. e-z decoupler, yo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 11:35:21 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 11:29:47 am
The thing is, I don't have the equipment for even getting into low earth orbit yet <_< No side couplers, only have short fat fuel tanks, no probes, no science stuff other than the goo, no nothing D: I barely have 4 techs researched.

I do think I could manage to barely get into LEO and promptly be stranded with no way to go back, but it'll be a struggle without all the niceties one gets used to in sandbox mode :P


I found that getting into EVA on the launch pad and collecting samples from the pad, runway, ground, and ocean also gives you some science , but it's really tedious to start a mission, walk in EVA all the way to a site, and trudge back to the pod, repeatedly.
You're still thinking in terms of Earth.  This is the basis of your problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on October 25, 2013, 11:35:41 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 25, 2013, 11:29:47 am
The thing is, I don't have the equipment for even getting into low earth orbit yet <_<
Please (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNXTFj3ozNY).  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 25, 2013, 11:35:58 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNXTFj3ozNY
Basic parts only going to Minmus and the Mun.

sniped
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 25, 2013, 11:40:23 am
Even if you don't have scott manley skills, you can do space science when suborbital, as long as you can crawl across that 70km limit for even a few seconds, you can get some decent science to start off with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 11:41:53 am
Quote from: sluissa on October 25, 2013, 11:40:23 am
Even if you don't have scott manley skills, you can do space science when suborbital, as long as you can crawl across that 70km limit for even a few seconds, you can get some decent science to start off with.
Strictly speaking, I believe that's a ballistic trajectory, which can net you surprisingly lot of science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 25, 2013, 11:46:24 am
In early game I found it pretty good to do flybys of the moons and using their gravity to put myself into aerobraking with Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 11:49:21 am
Even if you really don't want to actually put forth much effort, you can strap a single SRB to a crew pod and parachute and fly straight up and do a crew report at the top and you'll get more than enough to get the first research. From there you should be perfectly capable of getting to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 11:57:40 am
I have a problem.

I don't know how to use the goddamn parachutes.

I need to get the speed for the pods to (I think) 80 for the parachutes to deploy without breaking off, but I can't seem to get it to drop below 90 m/s no matter what I do.

Help!

I'm losing so many crewmembers and so much science in the last few seconds of an otherwise awesome trip. T_T
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 25, 2013, 11:58:46 am
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 11:57:40 am
I have a problem.

I don't know how to use the goddamn parachutes.

I need to get the speed for the pods to (I think) 80 for the parachutes to deploy without breaking off, but I can't seem to get it to drop below 90 m/s no matter what I do.

Help!

I'm losing so many crewmembers and so much science in the last few seconds of an otherwise awesome trip. T_T
Use more/bigger chutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 12:00:52 pm
Parachutes can deploy at over 100 m/s safely, unless you're trying to stop an entire space station. Or are using time warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 12:01:39 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 11:57:40 am
I have a problem.

I don't know how to use the goddamn parachutes.

I need to get the speed for the pods to (I think) 80 for the parachutes to deploy without breaking off, but I can't seem to get it to drop below 90 m/s no matter what I do.

Help!

I'm losing so many crewmembers and so much science in the last few seconds of an otherwise awesome trip. T_T

you need a radial parachute per ton of mass you want to bring down to a half-decent terminal velocity, if you need to land more than 10 tons bring a small engine with a bit of fuel to do a hybrid landing or just toss more radials on it and some drogue chutes

this assumes kerbin

space kraken help you if you're trying to use chutes on duna
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
If it's just a pod, you can do a solar orbit slamming into the atmosphere at 6km/s - deploy the single top chute EARLY so it'll drag for a long time.  You'll bleed a lot of speed in upper atmos, the thin chute will slow you down, and at 500m it'll open.

If using more, it still helps to deploy the chutes early, as they work some even at high altitude.  If you're smart, you can also line up some hardware assisted landings, including such safety measures as a single decoupler on the bottom of your craft to explode when you touchdown.  If you have a small engine and small fuel tank, you can bleed a lot of speed at ~250m and keep it attached, as it'll provide a HAL and the science should survive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:17:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 12:00:52 pm
Parachutes can deploy at over 100 m/s safely, unless you're trying to stop an entire space station. Or are using time warp.
Single pod, three parachutes, 90 m/s. Parachutes fail the moment they fully open, result: death. So... not true, as far as I can tell.

Wait... time warp... time warp? What result would time warp have on this? Why would that matter?



Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
If it's just a pod, you can do a solar orbit slamming into the atmosphere at 6km/s - deploy the single top chute EARLY so it'll drag for a long time.  You'll bleed a lot of speed in upper atmos, the thin chute will slow you down, and at 500m it'll open.
How early should I open it? As soon as the fire stops? After the "air effect" bit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2013, 12:18:09 pm
ok, here some ugly stuff, consider that I previously used a 100t lander so it is a huge improvement for me, even if not as minimal or pretty as the Manley stuff.

mechjeb is just to show stats

Spoiler: 1t rover, I'm using this as heavy duty crawler for base component, design actually stolen (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 0.5t probe, 2.5kdv, has the 4 small experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: same with a chute on top (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: larger at 1t, 2.7kdv and legs and some actual power to do things (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 13.6t lander, 5kdv - can orbit kerbin on its own! - contains all experiments (click to show/hide)

on a 1t payload, getting things in space is really easy
Spoiler: 30.5t ship to pretty much anywhere (click to show/hide)

that ship weight as much as most of my previous style payloads. I still have a lifter around that can ship 100t to orbit, imagine combining those two. would probably be able to do a grand tour with ease.
change cones for a chute and legs and can almost return from eve  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:21:59 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:17:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 12:00:52 pm
Parachutes can deploy at over 100 m/s safely, unless you're trying to stop an entire space station. Or are using time warp.
Single pod, three parachutes, 90 m/s. Parachutes fail the moment they fully open, result: death. So... not true, as far as I can tell.

Wait... time warp... time warp? What result would time warp have on this? Why would that matter?



Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
If it's just a pod, you can do a solar orbit slamming into the atmosphere at 6km/s - deploy the single top chute EARLY so it'll drag for a long time.  You'll bleed a lot of speed in upper atmos, the thin chute will slow you down, and at 500m it'll open.
How early should I open it? As soon as the fire stops? After the "air effect" bit?
Time warp just guestimates physics.  It will EASILY rip apart very stable crafts, especially in atmos.  Like, really.  There's two types of time warp, regular for in space, and physwarp, where it tries to enforce physics, while in atmosphere or accelerating.  Physwarp should ONLY be used for hour long burns on tiny ion probes.  If you EVER use it on a real craft, it'll pretty much destroy it.

Deploy your chutes in deep space.  With the current deal with re-entry not causing damage, I've never seen a single pod and chute take damage at any speed.  Or a single pod, chute, and science jr.  Deploy them WAY before you get into atmos.  The whole idea, is that you want as many forces as possible decelerating you for as long as possible.  So those chutes stay open.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 25, 2013, 12:25:30 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:21:59 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:17:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 12:00:52 pm
Parachutes can deploy at over 100 m/s safely, unless you're trying to stop an entire space station. Or are using time warp.
Single pod, three parachutes, 90 m/s. Parachutes fail the moment they fully open, result: death. So... not true, as far as I can tell.

Wait... time warp... time warp? What result would time warp have on this? Why would that matter?



Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
If it's just a pod, you can do a solar orbit slamming into the atmosphere at 6km/s - deploy the single top chute EARLY so it'll drag for a long time.  You'll bleed a lot of speed in upper atmos, the thin chute will slow you down, and at 500m it'll open.
How early should I open it? As soon as the fire stops? After the "air effect" bit?
Time warp just guestimates physics.  It will EASILY rip apart very stable crafts, especially in atmos.  Like, really.  There's two types of time warp, regular for in space, and physwarp, where it tries to enforce physics, while in atmosphere or accelerating.  Physwarp should ONLY be used for hour long burns on tiny ion probes.  If you EVER use it on a real craft, it'll pretty much destroy it.

Deploy your chutes in deep space.  With the current deal with re-entry not causing damage, I've never seen a single pod and chute take damage at any speed.  Or a single pod, chute, and science jr.  Deploy them WAY before you get into atmos.  The whole idea, is that you want as many forces as possible decelerating you for as long as possible.  So those chutes stay open.

And for that matter, even if you're not warping, KSP might still be doing less accurate physics calcs if it's lagging for other reasons.  If your mission timer is yellow or red, it's doing less accurate physics calcs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 12:29:22 pm
Speaking of, anyone know the mod(s) that enables slower time?  I've seen 1/32 time warp used on the youtubes, and would like to get some megalarge ships to orbit that physics don't enjoy normally...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 25, 2013, 12:32:03 pm
Have you already set max delta-t per frame down to the lowest (0.3)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 25, 2013, 12:36:39 pm
Quote from: ank on October 25, 2013, 12:32:03 pm
Have you already set max delta-t per frame down to the lowest (0.3)?

O.o *googles*

Quote from: Google
Go to settings and look for the slider that sets "Max Physics Delta-time Per Frame" and set it all the way to the right (0.3).
This will cause the game to slow down time to do physics calculations instead of lower the framerate while it calculates.

I never knew about that.  Changing that as soon as I get home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:49:37 pm
It's definitely time warp then, I'm guessing. Bloody fucking hell this is DEFINITELY something they should tell you, especially since "coming in for a parachute landing" is exactly the sort of situation where I would want to use time wrap. >_<

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 12:53:09 pm
Err, the game actually pop-ups a warning when you time warp :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:59:02 pm
I have no clue what you're talking about. What warning? I've never seen a warning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 01:09:50 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 12:59:02 pm
I have no clue what you're talking about. What warning? I've never seen a warning.
The first time you try to turn on physwarp it pops up a warning, telling you it's unstable, and has the option to dismiss the warning or turn off the warning for good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 25, 2013, 01:27:38 pm
I don't remember that ever happening. Hmm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightning4 on October 25, 2013, 01:43:51 pm
Physwarp is completely random. It seems to change with each update.

Last update, it was pretty stable. I was able to safely deploy parachutes at full physwarp without incident, for the full landing.
The update before, it wasn't.

Now it's back to being unstable again. Go figure.

Best case is to deploy the parachute, go full warp until you're close to the ground, then turn it off and wait for the parachute to deploy. Then you're free to turn it back up to get to the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 01:46:51 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 08:31:43 am
I'd like to see some of the sub-ton probes and rovers, actually...
The Near Future pack allows for some reasonably lightweight probes.

Spoiler: This one is 531kg (you wouldn't guess looking at it) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: This one is slower, but lighter and much more compact (click to show/hide)

Even with the recent nerf to engine efficiency and tank capacity (bringing both down to more reasonably realistic levels), it's still quite good. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 25, 2013, 02:23:58 pm
I'm looking forward to getting the NFP stuff once I get to it on the tech tree.

Right now I'm struggling with building a rocket that can carry a decent lander to the Mun.  I suppose I should just stop trying to use solid boosters altogether, since I can't seem to add enough to get me to orbit with a decent amount of fuel left for the transfer.  I'll also try using a higher engine/fuel tank ratio.

On a side note, it'd be nice if the ship builder would remember that you only want ONE kerbal in your ship, not three.  Every time I revert to the VAB and tweak it I suddenly have 3 kerbals again.  Can't rescue a guy if the seats are already taken...

EDIT:  Just saw your second screenshot, Sean, and remembered that I installed Kerbal Engineer but I keep forgetting to actually use it.  That would probably help my rocket building woes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 02:32:34 pm
SRBs are useful for very heavy rockets.  For simple lander missions, not needed.  What you really want, is some mod that enables Dv and TWR recording (Mechjeb or Engineer).  Your ascent stage should aim for a TWR of 2 or so, just as a good baseline (there's more complicated rules with the terminal velocity, but just rule of thumb, go for 2 TWR).  When you're out of atmosphere, you generally want ~2,000 Dv to get to Mun or Minmus, land, and return.  Due to lower gravity, TWR isn't as important for a lander, it's kind of difficult to be too heavy if you've just got a pod and science, as even a single 909 will land it with ease.  Minmus is an easier landing, because lower gravity.  Despite being so far out, the burn to change orbit isn't bad, and the landing is MUCH easier, as is the takeoff.  The tricky part is the inclination.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 02:32:57 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 25, 2013, 02:28:58 pm
SRBs are used primarily to get you out of the thickest part of the atmosphere. If you're using SRBs in space for actual non-messing about stuff, you're doing it wrong. horribly right.

boosters are the most kerbal of any propulsion methods

the only thing that could possibly be more kerbal is an engine made exclusively out of struts, and fueled exclusively by struts, prone to overheating when looked at wrong and with a 90% chance to spontaneously evolve a gimbal vectorer that you can't control just to spite you and everything you love

i want an engine made out of struts now

Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 02:32:34 pm
SRBs are useful for very heavy rockets.  For simple lander missions, not needed.  What you really want, is some mod that enables Dv and TWR recording (Mechjeb or Engineer).  Your ascent stage should aim for a TWR of 2 or so, just as a good baseline (there's more complicated rules with the terminal velocity, but just rule of thumb, go for 2 TWR).  When you're out of atmosphere, you generally want ~2,000 Dv to get to Mun or Minmus, land, and return.  Due to lower gravity, TWR isn't as important for a lander, it's kind of difficult to be too heavy if you've just got a pod and science, as even a single 909 will land it with ease.  Minmus is an easier landing, because lower gravity.  Despite being so far out, the burn to change orbit isn't bad, and the landing is MUCH easier, as is the takeoff.  The tricky part is the inclination.

assume five thousand m/s to get out of the atmosphere and run with that. how you apply it is a software rather than hardware problem as long as twr is above 1.1 - since the guy's already getting a plugin which calculates twr, the Dv available is just a click away
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 02:35:41 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 02:32:57 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 25, 2013, 02:28:58 pm
SRBs are used primarily to get you out of the thickest part of the atmosphere. If you're using SRBs in space for actual non-messing about stuff, you're doing it wrong. horribly right.

boosters are the most kerbal of any propulsion methods

the only thing that could possibly be more kerbal is an engine made exclusively out of struts, and fueled exclusively by struts, prone to overheating when looked at wrong and with a 90% chance to spontaneously evolve a gimbal vectorer that you can't control just to spite you and everything you love

i want an engine made out of struts now
Search the KSP forums for "FTL Egg".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 25, 2013, 02:40:16 pm
Or look for it in Scott Manley's list of videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 02:42:20 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 02:32:57 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 25, 2013, 02:32:34 pm
SRBs are useful for very heavy rockets.  For simple lander missions, not needed.  What you really want, is some mod that enables Dv and TWR recording (Mechjeb or Engineer).  Your ascent stage should aim for a TWR of 2 or so, just as a good baseline (there's more complicated rules with the terminal velocity, but just rule of thumb, go for 2 TWR).  When you're out of atmosphere, you generally want ~2,000 Dv to get to Mun or Minmus, land, and return.  Due to lower gravity, TWR isn't as important for a lander, it's kind of difficult to be too heavy if you've just got a pod and science, as even a single 909 will land it with ease.  Minmus is an easier landing, because lower gravity.  Despite being so far out, the burn to change orbit isn't bad, and the landing is MUCH easier, as is the takeoff.  The tricky part is the inclination.

assume five thousand m/s to get out of the atmosphere and run with that. how you apply it is a software rather than hardware problem as long as twr is above 1.1 - since the guy's already getting a plugin which calculates twr, the Dv available is just a click away
Escaping atmosphere is really weird with TWR and Dv.  I very regularly get to Mun, land, and return with about 4,500Dv, because my lifter is small and gets about 1.8 TWR.  The faster you can leave atmos, the less fuel you need getting your TWR closer to 2 can increase your efficiency a lot.  I experimented with some LT30's getting that lift, but when I replaced them with 909's for more Dv and closer to 1.1 TWR, I ran out of fuel way too early.

While you CAN get to orbit at 1.1 TWR, this is a method to get extremely large ships with extremely large fuel tanks that get shed before even leaving atmos.  Making orbit is a lot different than any other space travel - removing fuel tanks can make your ship go further.  Adding a few radial thrusters on a large orange tank can work better than asparagus big orang tanks, if you do things just right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 25, 2013, 02:46:27 pm
I've landed on Mun and Minimus, but I built a heavier rocket to try to get a real rover up there (that's what I meant when I said 'lander' in my last post, no idea why I said lander instead of rover).  Basically I increased the main shaft to Rockomax parts and attached 12 boosters using structural pieces.  That didn't work, so I doubled the amount of boosters.  It was basically a Rockomax Skipper with 24 boosters attached  :P

Needless to say, that didn't work much better.  I realize I could simply look up lifter designs but half the fun is designing your rockets!

Also, counterbalancing a side-mounted rover is hard.  I'm almost tempted to just send two rovers up because it'd be easier than trying to stop my rocket from immediately arcing to the ground 50 feet away.  I guess I should just tack it on top, but it looks so... terrible that way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 02:47:04 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 02:35:41 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 25, 2013, 02:32:57 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 25, 2013, 02:28:58 pm
SRBs are used primarily to get you out of the thickest part of the atmosphere. If you're using SRBs in space for actual non-messing about stuff, you're doing it wrong. horribly right.

boosters are the most kerbal of any propulsion methods

the only thing that could possibly be more kerbal is an engine made exclusively out of struts, and fueled exclusively by struts, prone to overheating when looked at wrong and with a 90% chance to spontaneously evolve a gimbal vectorer that you can't control just to spite you and everything you love

i want an engine made out of struts now
Search the KSP forums for "FTL Egg".

sweet mother of science

now i know my preferred way of getting crew up to my space station

just need to load it up with landers for when they need to get back down
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 25, 2013, 02:54:32 pm
There isent really a way to control it......
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2013, 03:06:47 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 07:18:07 am
You know, I'm really not sure what to make of you sometimes Silly Putty.
On the one hand, practically everything you post is a sarcastic, sometimes almost scathing response to a simple, easy-to-do mistake on someone else's part.

But on the other hand, you do it so goddamn well.

oh...  :-[

I really don't like scaring people off.

At least I'll take the compliment
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 25, 2013, 03:17:28 pm
One thing I've been curious about is why high explosives, say nitroglycerin, have never been used as a rocket propellant. It seems like it would have a really good thrust-to-weight ratio, and lord knows kerbals would never have a problem with it. Until it exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2013, 03:21:06 pm
Liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen works so much better.

Solid fuel rockets pretty much are those anyway. The earliest rockets made by the Chinese were done with gunpowder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 03:29:07 pm
The problem with explosives is that they explode fast. Dilute them enough to do a slow burn and they won't be all that impressive. Case in point: C4 used as campfire ingredient.

There are, however, both compounds too dangerous to even be used as explosives (FOOF comes to mind), and explosions powerful enough to propel whole spaceships as-is (Project ORION).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 25, 2013, 04:50:08 pm
What does ISP stand for on engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on October 25, 2013, 04:53:50 pm
Specific impulse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 25, 2013, 04:55:05 pm
So, bigger is better?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 25, 2013, 04:57:58 pm
Graknorke just made me realize that you can push ships with EVA kerbals, and replenish the EVA jetpacks indefinitely by having them return to a command pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 04:59:06 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on October 25, 2013, 04:55:05 pm
So, bigger is better?
Yup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 04:59:16 pm
Higher is better, yes. Except with electricity. Electricity has no mass, so the higher the ISP of an electric engine (i.e. the Ion thruster), the less fuel is used, and the more electricity is used.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 05:01:23 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 25, 2013, 04:59:16 pm
Higher is better, yes. Except with electricity. Electricity has no mass, so the higher the ISP of an electric engine (i.e. the Ion thruster), the less fuel is used, and the more electricity is used.
But don't you want that? Electricity is free, xenon gas isn't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 25, 2013, 05:08:28 pm
Yeah. Stick a solar array on there and you should be golden! Or however much you need to get a positive (or at least not negative) electricity change when the engine is active.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 25, 2013, 05:15:48 pm
I landed on mun, I landed on minmus, I did science... Now it is time to travel to new planets!
so I can get enough science to unlock some new science instruments like the nosecone and the accelerometer.

This time I am trying a scaled down version of my last attempt. While the last time the focus was on building a huge spaceship ( crew of 6 kerbals, space for double that number, 12 engines), this time I'll try to build something that won't cripple my computer.
However, I am not confident in my ability to carry a lander that can land on Duna and come back with all its equipment. I'll be forced to abandon all science on the surface. Do you guys have any good compact lander design?


by the way.
Spoiler:  first docking in this version! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 25, 2013, 05:39:59 pm
I think KSP's ion engines think that you mix the electricity with the ions and then burn them to produce thrust. As such, ISP includes electricity, and higher ISP engines need less electricity for the same thrust. But I'm not sure about that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 25, 2013, 05:42:27 pm
Anyone want to do a challenge?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 05:45:01 pm
Landed on the Mun
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I need to rescue Bill and Bob -.-'

Btw, I was playing around with ion engine designs, and while I get that making a 7500dv probe filled with research tools of just 1.5 ton is great, it takes over 5 hours to use that dv.
Does anyone (without mods) actually ever use ion enines o.O? It seems to be that the ant engine is better in basically all circumstances.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 25, 2013, 05:52:58 pm
Actually the Ant engine is fairly bad because its slightly large cousin has much, much better thrust and ISP. I Have used Ion engines, though. I put several of them on a ship with 10km/s delta-v and put jeb on a field trip to deep space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on October 25, 2013, 06:25:21 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on October 25, 2013, 05:45:01 pm
Landed on the Mun
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I need to rescue Bill and Bob -.-'

Btw, I was playing around with ion engine designs, and while I get that making a 7500dv probe filled with research tools of just 1.5 ton is great, it takes over 5 hours to use that dv.
Does anyone (without mods) actually ever use ion enines o.O? It seems to be that the ant engine is better in basically all circumstances.
I used ion engines before this version pretty often, with extremely small probes. Now all the mass necessary for science means I would need more engines, which would need more solar power, which means more mass, etc.
Not willing to calculate optimal size tradeoff to get the minimum of science into space using ion probes in terms of acceleration, so eh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 25, 2013, 07:37:54 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 25, 2013, 05:42:27 pm
Anyone want to do a challenge?
Challenge accepted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 25, 2013, 08:11:03 pm
Alright, here's my challenge:

Iron Man

Build a humanoid spaceship, whether assembled in orbit or launched in one piece from the ground. Must have torso, head, 2 arms, and 2 legs. Bonus points for extra digits or details.

Full credit for standard, arms-at-sides or T pose. Bonus points for hands outstretched "superman" pose. Double bonus points for 1 hand at side, the other overhead, also "superman" but harder because it likely makes the weight asymmetrically distributed.

Get to orbit and come back with 2 arms, 2 legs, torso, and head still attached. Mega Ultra bonus points if you land on something then come back.

Also, pics or it didn't happen ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 25, 2013, 08:21:27 pm
I believe someone on here already did something basically of this description.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 25, 2013, 08:48:56 pm
Triple bonus points: Use damned robotics to make it move.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 25, 2013, 08:54:42 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 25, 2013, 08:11:03 pm
Alright, here's my challenge:

Iron Man

Build a humanoid spaceship, whether assembled in orbit or launched in one piece from the ground. Must have torso, head, 2 arms, and 2 legs. Bonus points for extra digits or details.

Full credit for standard, arms-at-sides or T pose. Bonus points for hands outstretched "superman" pose. Double bonus points for 1 hand at side, the other overhead, also "superman" but harder because it likely makes the weight asymmetrically distributed.

Get to orbit and come back with 2 arms, 2 legs, torso, and head still attached. Mega Ultra bonus points if you land on something then come back.

Also, pics or it didn't happen ;D
If at any point in the future I actually manage to do that, I'll tell you right away.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 25, 2013, 08:59:06 pm
Quadruple bonus: All engines are in hands and feet, must move hands/feet to angle thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 09:16:13 pm
Slightly Relevant: I had at one point considered creating the ship from Spaceballs, complete with MEGA MAID transformation.


Also:
Quote from: Putnam on October 25, 2013, 03:06:47 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 25, 2013, 07:18:07 am
You know, I'm really not sure what to make of you sometimes Silly Putty.
On the one hand, practically everything you post is a sarcastic, sometimes almost scathing response to a simple, easy-to-do mistake on someone else's part.

But on the other hand, you do it so goddamn well.

oh...  :-[

I really don't like scaring people off.

At least I'll take the compliment

Well you didn't really scare me off, like I said, I just didn't know what to make of you.
Its kinda a Poe's Law thing, I wasn't sure if you're just a very blunt, to the point kind of person or if you were actively trolling people.

Granted now I'm pretty sure its the former. And now I feel bad....oops.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 25, 2013, 09:38:49 pm
Welp, just pulled off my second ever docking. It was much easier to do it in Munar orbit than in low-Kerbin orbit, so I've got significantly less of everything than I'd hoped.

Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)

Now what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on October 25, 2013, 09:53:04 pm
Finally got my base on the Mun finished.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
From left to right is the Kethane and Base core (it houses the reactor), followed by several of the relay rovers, then the launch pad to send missions off to Jool or something, and finally the mining and ore processing rig.

Now to use this to build and send a smaller more compact version to Vall or Tylo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 25, 2013, 09:53:59 pm
I see empty docking ports.
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 25, 2013, 09:38:49 pm
Welp, just pulled off my second ever docking. It was much easier to do it in Munar orbit than in low-Kerbin orbit, so I've got significantly less of everything than I'd hoped.

Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)

Now what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 25, 2013, 10:20:10 pm
Dock interplanetary drives and put your kerbals on Laythe.


I've never docked anything before. I really need to if I'm going to do any manned missions to other planets.


In planet-related news, I successfully put a probe in orbit around Eve, and landed a surface probe to send back data. 1200 science points form that mission so far. I'm going to see if I can get the probe in orbit around Gilly/put a surface probe down there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on October 25, 2013, 10:37:55 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 25, 2013, 08:11:03 pm
Alright, here's my challenge:

Iron Man

*SNIP*

I just remembered that this this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA) video exists. It successfully completes your challenge, excluding return, if I am not mistaken, at about 0:57.

It's likely that game cheats were used.

But we all just want to beeeelieeeve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 25, 2013, 11:00:49 pm
I don't see a head there :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on October 25, 2013, 11:19:40 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 25, 2013, 11:00:49 pm
I don't see a head there :(
The Kerbal IS the head.

I dunno, I suppose you're right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 26, 2013, 03:30:12 am
The mission to Dres was a great success!:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Getting home is another question entirely, I only have enough fuel to reach Duna, but not enough fuel to actually orbit Duna.

Cue rescue mission!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 26, 2013, 04:00:47 am
Mission images, now with thumbnails!

Landed a rover on the Mun:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img811/8131/nhv.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img811/8131/nhv.png/)
Occupational hazard, naturally.

Messing around with Jool:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img202/3981/72hm.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img202/3981/72hm.png)(http://imageshack.us/a/img6/831/e91i.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img6/831/e91i.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img14/183/z2sl.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img14/183/z2sl.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img23/9247/dxjs.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img23/9247/dxjs.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img89/6431/g5y4.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img89/6431/g5y4.png)(http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7372/w5tv.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7372/w5tv.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/2425/k5eg.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img27/2425/k5eg.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img713/3190/ww8c.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img713/3190/ww8c.png)

That aerobraking maneuver was only done to put me in a safe orbit after doing science at the moons. Everything else was handled with slingshots. It still has roughly 3 km/s delta-v left.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on October 26, 2013, 07:39:53 am
Did you know you can take an EVA report from the external command chair?

Spoiler: Cue !!SCIENCE!! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 26, 2013, 07:41:33 am
That is glorious. I'm going to do that as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 09:16:13 am
well, how do guys make those opening struts for shuttle?

I finally managed to create a small spaceplane that can bring 1t in orbit and land safely (with far and deadly reentry)
Spoiler: landing after an orbit (click to show/hide)

but the cargo bay remains open - how do you have a closing panel of 1x1 struts without the robotic plugin? I know people do it but haven't found an explanation/way myself   ::)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 09:19:42 am
Landing legs and the structural pylon, I believe. At least until the landing legs got remodeled. Might not work so well now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 11:01:50 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 09:19:42 am
Landing legs and the structural pylon, I believe. At least until the landing legs got remodeled. Might not work so well now.


thanks. ended up with infernal robotics http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-21-0-22-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-8b-%2810-7-2013%29

there are gaps and seams.. I'd need a 1.5 panel  :P

Spoiler: open (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: closed (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 26, 2013, 11:17:46 am
I thought all was lost, that all science I was capable of reaching was exploited and used.
I WAS WRONG.
With a little bit of magic, I managed to get into HKO and research 3 goo canisters, get 2 EVA reports, and 2 Crew Reports.
All and all, I am satisfied.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 26, 2013, 02:43:13 pm
Jeb, you've done us proud. Your efforts at Eve and Gilly has provided our program 4300 science points. We welcome you back.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img849/994/xhxe.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img849/994/xhxe.png/)(http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2341/pm49.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2341/pm49.png/)(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8449/c2o8.th.png) (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8449/c2o8.png)(http://imageshack.us/a/img849/6281/84cj.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img849/6281/84cj.png)(http://imageshack.us/a/img571/5971/6v4o.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img571/5971/6v4o.png)(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/1124/io0t.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img20/1124/io0t.png)

EDIT: And with the completion of the Dres Probe mission, I've unlocked the entire science tree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 26, 2013, 04:20:12 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 11:01:50 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 09:19:42 am
Landing legs and the structural pylon, I believe. At least until the landing legs got remodeled. Might not work so well now.


thanks. ended up with infernal robotics http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-21-0-22-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-8b-%2810-7-2013%29

there are gaps and seams.. I'd need a 1.5 panel  :P

Spoiler: open (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: closed (click to show/hide)

That's a very nice looking craft!

And NERVA for SSTO... I will have to try that!
Are you engaging the NERVA before turning off the Jets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 04:29:26 pm
Yes at 25km from groubd te jet brings me at 1500m/s, then I engage the nerva and turn to 40' climb. When the jet flames out I kill it.

Note that it is a far craft, and even stalls mid flight with a heavy payload. Luckily I can raise the bay doors to gain portance  :P (which is actually pretty cool)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 04:44:30 pm
Hmm, that craft can't be very heavy.

Have you tried using 909's instead of NERVAs? I think the losses in efficiency (50%) and thrust (12%) will be sufficiently offset by not having to lug three and a half extra tons of nuclear engine into orbit. Each NERVA is 2.25 tons. Each LV-909 is 500kg. Try it. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 26, 2013, 04:47:34 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 04:44:30 pm
Hmm, that craft can't be very heavy.

Have you tried using 909's instead of NERVAs? I think the losses in efficiency (50%) and thrust (12%) will be sufficiently offset by not having to lug three and a half extra tons of nuclear engine into orbit. Each NERVA is 2.25 tons. Each LV-909 is 500kg. Try it. ;)

Gimmy the total mass of the craft and I can figure it out with the good 'ol rocket equation!

I was actually wondering about when NERVA's was effective due to thier high mass, and you gotta have a pretty small fuel tank for the NERVA to be inefficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 05:01:20 pm
Total mass is 20.5 ton :)

Math away :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 26, 2013, 05:06:22 pm
Well, you'd be down to 17 tons total, and you'd be down to 100kN of thrust, for a TWR of .58. With 20.5 tons and 120kN of thrust... hm. About pretty much the same, really. So the NERVA's efficiency would win out, especially at that altitude. Oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 26, 2013, 05:32:32 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 05:01:20 pm
Total mass is 20.5 ton :)

Math away :P

Ok!
I am assuming some values for ISP, because the SSTO is partly in atmosphere. I am assuming 700 for NERVA and 380 for lv-909.

For the Nerva I get Delta-v = 1490.581955 m/s

And for the Lv-909 I get Delta-v = 894.4881073 m/s

These calculations does not take the fuel and stuff spent to get the NERVAs to 20km height though, but the numbers are so much in favor of the NERVAs that I am gonna call it the better choice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 06:17:32 pm
Yes also using a single engine to get 20km I use up only half fuel so I prefer the dv than the weight
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on October 26, 2013, 06:32:53 pm
So I lost Bill, Bob and Jeb one after one.
Somehow, they all died due to parachute failiure.
However the research they gave was valuable so it was not all in vain.
Now how do i prevent the parachute, from being ripped off the pod just before landing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on October 26, 2013, 06:42:13 pm
Remove some weight from the pod, and possibly add secondary parachutes to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 26, 2013, 07:28:00 pm
A single chute can usually stop a command pod and any non-sectional secondary objects you strap to it. I've managed to stop a pod with 4 goo canisters. You'll probably need more chutes to stop anything heavier, though, unless you want to put some shock absorbers on the bottom.

And don't forget, time acceleration will be the death of you if you're not careful

As a note, I've never had a chute failure once, so my advice is from 'I've done this and it works' perspective. The fact that I have a good computer that handles KSP pretty well might have a profound effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 26, 2013, 07:41:17 pm
Quote from: Kanil on October 26, 2013, 07:39:53 am
Did you know you can take an EVA report from the external command chair?

Spoiler: Cue !!SCIENCE!! (click to show/hide)
I love that ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 26, 2013, 08:42:02 pm
One parachute will get the 1 man pod down to 4m/s with a couple things tacked on. The 3 man is quite a bit heavier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 02:46:35 am
Quote from: ank on October 26, 2013, 05:32:32 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2013, 05:01:20 pm
Total mass is 20.5 ton :)

Math away :P

Ok!
I am assuming some values for ISP, because the SSTO is partly in atmosphere. I am assuming 700 for NERVA and 380 for lv-909.

For the Nerva I get Delta-v = 1490.581955 m/s

And for the Lv-909 I get Delta-v = 894.4881073 m/s

These calculations does not take the fuel and stuff spent to get the NERVAs to 20km height though, but the numbers are so much in favor of the NERVAs that I am gonna call it the better choice.
The 909 is basically an upscale of the NERVA - similar to the Mainsail and Poodle, or the 909 and the LT-30.  Compared to NERVA, the 909 gets lower fuel efficiency but higher thrust.

The basic rundown of engines is:
Ion: For autopilot making 10m+ burns.
NERVA: For anything you want to get very far.
909: Mostly landers, also small vessels during upper ascent stages or medium sized payloads needing long travel.
LV-30: Useful for ascent, as well as propelling extremely large payloads through orbital transitions.
Poodle: For extremely large payloads needing orbital movements, and for landing extremely large landers.
Mainsail: Ascent.  Nothing else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 02:52:23 am
Skipper's probably better for ascent if you're not desperate for thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 03:02:18 am
The 909 has less thrust than the NERVA. NERVA has 60kN, 909 has 50kN.

And while Skipper is a more controllable ascent solution, especially in a fuel crossfeed configuration with LFBs, the Mainsail is still pretty much the definitive ascent engine. There's no better engine to put on the bottom of a tall fuel tank stack. It's the best way to clear the lower atmosphere quickly.

Plus don't forget the Aerospike. While normally thought of as a spaceplane engine, it makes for very good LFBs if the center stack is gimballed. It's heavier than the T30 and has less thrust, but its fuel efficiency at sea level is unparallelled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 03:04:07 am
You don't want to clear if quickly, just efficiently, and skippers are better at that :I

though I guess if you really want effective in atmosphere, you just go with a very large number of jets
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 03:04:22 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 02:52:23 am
Skipper's probably better for ascent if you're not desperate for thrust.
Skipper and Mainsail are -sorta- the LT-30 and LT-45 of 3m.  If you're going to use a Skipper, you might as well use a quad connector and 4 LT-30's if you ask me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 03:07:01 am
Yeah, the Mainsail is for when you have an exceedingly heavy center stack, and the Skipper just doesn't cut it for when the boosters are gone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 03:10:58 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 03:04:22 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 02:52:23 am
Skipper's probably better for ascent if you're not desperate for thrust.
Skipper and Mainsail are -sorta- the LT-30 and LT-45 of 3m.  If you're going to use a Skipper, you might as well use a quad connector and 4 LT-30's if you ask me.

I'm using a quad connector and 4 skippers connected to a mainsail...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 03:17:23 am
I use that configuration as the launch stage for my space tug. :)

Spoiler: And later, this thing (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 27, 2013, 04:04:59 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 03:04:07 am
though I guess if you really want effective in atmosphere, you just go with a very large number of jets

if you're slamming 100+ tons into orbit i see no reason to not use ludicrous jet abuse

give it warmup time and you'll be running out of atmosphere without even touching the main lift stage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 27, 2013, 06:54:08 am
And if you really, REALLY want fuel efficiency you just throw jeb in a FTL-Egg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EZWbF3sQQI
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 12:07:05 pm
Wow, okay.
I designed a small probe for going to the mun and Minmus. It generally gets there with some of the stage used to get it there. Whatever, I generally just dump it and let it crash. So I then have another stage of just a FLT800 and a T45 to deorbit and assist with decelerating before the probe lands. On this particular mission to Minmus I decidied to try out the metrics equipment (thermometer etc) on the probe. And just because I had enough fuel left, I landed using the deorbit stage still attached. After I had transmitted all of the science available, I decided to see if I could return to Kerbin.
When I was trying to establish an orbit I way overshot and ended up in a very erratic Kerbin orbit.
That made me wonder just how much DV I had left over. So I figured I'd try some interplanetary stuff for the first time in career mode.

I ended up making it to Duna, and the entire landing was conducted using only the probe itself. It has hardly any fuel left, but hey, I got an extra 800 science or so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 27, 2013, 12:16:10 pm
I am filled with new-found respect for small engines in 0.22

I use craft with the large crew modules and propel them to my space station using only the 48-7S engine. It's small and slow, but it makes orbital maneouvering so much more manageable and allows me to go stingy on fuel supply.

One thing that hasn't changed, though, is my attitude towards probes. I tend to not use them unless they are rovers. I try to make all the trips return or I try setting up a base and working from there (usually, I send a return vehicle and an ascent vehicle, similar to Mars Semi-Direct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct#Mars_Semi-Direct). This mostly applies to other planets, for moons, just a simple rescue craft will do)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 12:17:52 pm
The only places where rovers are useful for science currently are Kerbin and the Mun, since they're the only ones with distinct biomes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 27, 2013, 12:24:42 pm
I know, but I just think that rovers on Duna look so friggin' cool....

Not to mention they compliment my accidental Kerbal Colonies verily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 27, 2013, 12:51:17 pm
If you use kethane a mobile drill rig is handy if you can't land accurately worth a damn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 27, 2013, 01:06:28 pm
I've never been able to get anything large into orbit, except when I do and it doesn't have enough fuel left to do what it was supposed to :(

You people are wizards
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 01:14:44 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 27, 2013, 01:06:28 pm
I've never been able to get anything large into orbit, except when I do and it doesn't have enough fuel left to do what it was supposed to :(

You people are wizards
Considering that many of my rocket designs take a while to prepare, are completely batshit insane, and very frequently result in fireballs, that's probably not too far from the truth. :P

In other news... so. Procedural Fairings. Recently introduced the Interstage Adapter.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Interstage Adapter? More like Custom Fuselage Shroud. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 27, 2013, 02:16:10 pm
I have a question: I'm planning on doing a manned mission to Eve next, but I don't want to leave any kerbals on the gorund indefinitely. So, how can I get enough fuel to Eve on a lander to escape the atmosphere again? I've already developed a no-returns lander in sandbox that can make it there and land semi-successfully, but the lander has no feasible way to escape Eve again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 27, 2013, 02:18:57 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on October 27, 2013, 02:16:10 pm
I have a question: I'm planning on doing a manned mission to Eve next, but I don't want to leave any kerbals on the gorund indefinitely. So, how can I get enough fuel to Eve on a lander to escape the atmosphere again? I've already developed a no-returns lander in sandbox that can make it there and land semi-successfully, but the lander has no feasible way to escape Eve again.

you need to land on the plateau. atmosphere is significantly less dense there. bring some aerospikes if you manage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 27, 2013, 02:34:25 pm
Has anyone made a Solar System mod? Earth, the Moon, Mars, Venus, Jupitor and it's moons, Asteroid Belt, Mercury, Saturn/moons, Neptune, Pluto?

And/or anyone modded the other planets to have biomes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 27, 2013, 02:38:30 pm
There is a mod in the works to make the kerbin system more realistic and match real world proportions. (aka 9000+ deltav to orbit)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 03:55:04 pm
Quote from: Descan on October 27, 2013, 02:34:25 pm
Has anyone made a Solar System mod? Earth, the Moon, Mars, Venus, Jupitor and it's moons, Asteroid Belt, Mercury, Saturn/moons, Neptune, Pluto?

And/or anyone modded the other planets to have biomes?

From what I've heard, planet modding is a bitch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 27, 2013, 03:57:59 pm
I've heard there are 2 ways, both ridiculously hard:

-Decompile/Recompile the game, difficult and illegal, but stable

-Some more esoteric way, even more difficult and unstable, but legal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:33:17 pm
Can someone please confirm that the communotron 16 is the best antenna in terms of energy efficiency?
It seems a bit strange that anyone would use anything else given that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 04:39:34 pm
It is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 27, 2013, 04:41:59 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:33:17 pm
Can someone please confirm that the communotron 16 is the best antenna in terms of energy efficiency?
It seems a bit strange that anyone would use anything else given that.
Technically it's not as fast, but it's definitely the most power efficient. Antennas seems to be balanced like they didn't realize that A) power would end up being the limiting factor on pretty much every craft and B) there's no reason to to spend a bunch of power trying to shave a couple seconds off of your transmit time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 04:42:43 pm
Yeah, Communotron 16 sends data most energy-efficiently.

However, it is fairly slow. The large dish antenna is over twice as fast. If you've electricity to spare and need to send 200+ Mits of data...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 04:44:30 pm
Considering time warp and it only takes a few seconds anyways, there's not a big deal...  If they had skylabs, and sending data took hours and could be trickled in, or if data could be sent more completely and not waste bits, then yeah sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 27, 2013, 04:48:04 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:33:17 pm
Can someone please confirm that the communotron 16 is the best antenna in terms of energy efficiency?
It seems a bit strange that anyone would use anything else given that.
I always use that as my primary transmitter, but I always have a backup in the form of the second one that is unlocked.  You never know when a mission will go to hell and your controlled landing turns into a wild tumble that tears half your equipment off.  And the communotron protrudes out way too much to have a chance of surviving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 27, 2013, 04:49:58 pm
I've switched to using four to five C-16s, so I can transmit as much data as possible at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:50:15 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 27, 2013, 04:42:43 pm
Yeah, Communotron 16 sends data most energy-efficiently.

However, it is fairly slow. The large dish antenna is over twice as fast. If you've electricity to spare and need to send 200+ Mits of data...
With the 88-88 that would be 2000 units of power spare. I don't think anyone ever has that much to spare. Especially since antenna are mostly used on probes, which have to be kept lightweight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 04:53:04 pm
I always have a couple of 1000s attached, since I'm usually sending very large probes out with large things. I just send multiple sciences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 27, 2013, 04:54:08 pm
I've started adding in disposable batteries on some ships. Once they're drained they detach and float away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:55:44 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 04:53:04 pm
I always have a couple of 1000s attached, since I'm usually sending very large probes out with large things. I just send multiple sciences.
My probe design is mostly based around the idea of "If I make it too heavy I'll have to redesign the lifter stage". Laziness is a brilliant innovator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 05:00:55 pm
I already made the lifter stage horribly overpowered in the first place, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 27, 2013, 05:17:41 pm
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
I've symetrized it, this docking being surprisingly easier than the previous one. It shall become my Sun station. will Now to wonder if the middle engine, on a now full tank, can get the whole thing into Kerbol orbit...

Or maybe I should glue some ion engines to it first?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 27, 2013, 05:35:51 pm
Why no nuclear engines? And ion engines will take forever ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 27, 2013, 05:42:13 pm
This is career mode. I don't have nuclear engines yet. And don't ask why I didn't get them in the first 3 flights, not everyone's that pro.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 27, 2013, 05:44:49 pm
I'm a few pages behind this but I noticed something:
Quote from: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 10:28:13 pm

Bonus shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
... So many ill-fitting parts. I wish Kerbals could climb over ladder edges. Have fun with it, though. (http://www.filedropper.com/roversuprememki) Alt+F12 for part clipping is a must. Center of mass is way too high. I bet it flips the moment it hits Mun's surface.
[/quote]
Part clipping? Does that mean what I think it does because if it does It may solve issues I've had for ages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 27, 2013, 05:47:33 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on October 27, 2013, 05:44:49 pm
I'm a few pages behind this but I noticed something:
Quote
Quote from: BigD145 on October 22, 2013, 10:28:13 pm
Bonus shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
... So many ill-fitting parts. I wish Kerbals could climb over ladder edges. Have fun with it, though. (http://www.filedropper.com/roversuprememki) Alt+F12 for part clipping is a must. Center of mass is way too high. I bet it flips the moment it hits Mun's surface.
Part clipping? Does that mean what I think it does because if it does It may solve issues I've had for ages.

Stick things inside other things. Give it a try. It makes things interesting although a bit cheaty.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 05:52:13 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:55:44 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 04:53:04 pm
I always have a couple of 1000s attached, since I'm usually sending very large probes out with large things. I just send multiple sciences.
My probe design is mostly based around the idea of "If I make it too heavy I'll have to redesign the lifter stage". Laziness is a brilliant innovator.
This should actually be fairly standard thought.  Make a lifter that can get 5t to orbit.  Every ship you build must be less than 5t.  Work with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 05:55:06 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 27, 2013, 05:52:13 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 27, 2013, 04:55:44 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 27, 2013, 04:53:04 pm
I always have a couple of 1000s attached, since I'm usually sending very large probes out with large things. I just send multiple sciences.
My probe design is mostly based around the idea of "If I make it too heavy I'll have to redesign the lifter stage". Laziness is a brilliant innovator.
This should actually be fairly standard thought.  Make a lifter that can get 5t to orbit.  Every ship you build must be less than 5t.  Work with it.
I have way overpowered my rocket, given that like I said, it can get to Duna with basically no planning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on October 27, 2013, 05:57:00 pm
Hmm, It seems that what i needed was a button that enforces stronger clipping detection, sometimes when i'm trying to rotate something into the position i want it ends up inside my other parts. But this 'unbreakable joints' setting looks like it might help my problems with failure of multiple radial decouplers to hold the same part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 27, 2013, 11:35:24 pm
Fun stuff found on the official forums. Good for Kerbal stages.
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55575-Cheat-Rocket-60
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/49226-EXPANDED-Munshine-Launcher-Family-10-100-tons-to-orbit!
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/33381-0-20-2-Zenith-rocket-family-%28modernised-for-0-20-x-with-perfect-subassembly%29
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2013, 06:58:15 am
I removed the FAR plugin and I am trying to remake my shuttle as a standard craft - damn it is hard

I guess it is to heavy because to fly horizontal it needs an angle of attack of 20 degree. anyone has a large space plane ssto design that works just to see the differences?

Spoiler: here is my failed attempt to increase lift (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on October 28, 2013, 07:24:20 am
I have a few designs but they're mostly designed to carry people. The closest I've got that lifts payload was one that had the "payload" (a small unsuccessful lander) in tail section. All stock, too.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img547/2104/faaw.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img547/2104/faaw.png)

I just think you need more engines and air intakes. You're simply not getting enough speed with just one turbojet, although landing will be tough. Unless you want colossal or multiplane wing structures.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 28, 2013, 07:50:01 am
I just got back from the Mun in one piece :D
With !!SCIENCE!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 28, 2013, 08:07:38 am
I just made a round trip to Duna and Ike with a slightly upgraded probe from last time (it has the gravioli detector and the atmospheric analyser). 2000 science. I love this probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 08:39:02 am
I wish there was a benefit to satellites.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 28, 2013, 08:40:27 am
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 08:39:02 am
I wish there was a benefit to satellites.
You don't have to make them landable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 08:46:14 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 28, 2013, 08:40:27 am
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 08:39:02 am
I wish there was a benefit to satellites.
You don't have to make them landable.
He means (I assume) that there's currently no purpose in, for instance, communications grids, GPS, solar flare warning... or anything.  Satellites are merely practice and serve no actual purpose.

Unless you're using a mining mod, and can scan using them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 10:04:45 am
You don't have to make probes of any sort landable to benefit from them. Sattelites don't need to be landable, no, but offer absolutely no benefit over probes at the moment.

Also, finally got a nice moon orbiter going, plenty of fuel left, was considering trying for a landing...

Huh, you can run out of batteries for the reaction wheels in your pod, and apparently the battery recharge rate on your fuel engine thingies doesn't actually imply they recharge your batteries? GOOD TO KNOW
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 10:08:01 am
Engines contain alternators, they can recharge batteries as long as they are actually thrusting.  It's the same way a car engine only charges the battery as long as the engine is on, but the battery dies if you don't drive it for a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 28, 2013, 10:11:17 am
It'd be nice if when you were building your rockets you could simply click on an attachment point instead of having to finagle the camera and mouse to the exact right angle to get it to snap in.

"No, I don't want it to attach to the side of the engine next to it, I want it to attach to the stack separator above it, ffs.  HOW IS IT NOW HORIZONTAL?" etc. etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2013, 10:15:24 am
The engines recharge your batteries only when they are running. And only certain engines.

As for satellites, I imagine they're going to be far more popular once science is rebalanced/extended, and the economy kicks in. Right now you can pretty much extract all possible data on a planet/moon in the course of one well-planned mission. This really shouldn't be possible. Once science missions require more involved exploration of orbital and ground space, lighter and more cost-efficient probes with science equipment should gain some popularity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 28, 2013, 10:16:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2013, 06:58:15 am
I removed the FAR plugin and I am trying to remake my shuttle as a standard craft - damn it is hard

I guess it is to heavy because to fly horizontal it needs an angle of attack of 20 degree. anyone has a large space plane ssto design that works just to see the differences?

Spoiler: here is my failed attempt to increase lift (click to show/hide)

This might be a little too big, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOzbtZAfWM
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 28, 2013, 10:24:36 am
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 10:04:45 am
You don't have to make probes of any sort landable to benefit from them. Sattelites don't need to be landable, no, but offer absolutely no benefit over probes at the moment.

Also, finally got a nice moon orbiter going, plenty of fuel left, was considering trying for a landing...

Huh, you can run out of batteries for the reaction wheels in your pod, and apparently the battery recharge rate on your fuel engine thingies doesn't actually imply they recharge your batteries? GOOD TO KNOW

There are at least two mods that use satellites as science trickle chargers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 10:31:29 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2013, 10:15:24 am
The engines recharge your batteries only when they are running. And only certain engines.
Actually, this may have been what caught me, I guess - maybe I was looking at the stats for one engine and actually put on a different type. Certainly possible. I think the battery was recharging during my ascent, but stopped when I was thrusting in space.

Anyway, I had my kerbal dude get out and push-point the rocket in the right direction, but accidentally ejected the rockets in the attempt (Why is decoupling the same key as leaving ship!? Argh!) Tried to do a nudge by hopping off then hopping back on, but instead of pressing space->f, I pressed f->space. And then my doom was sealed. >_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 28, 2013, 10:45:23 am
Quote from: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 10:31:29 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 28, 2013, 10:15:24 am
The engines recharge your batteries only when they are running. And only certain engines.
Actually, this may have been what caught me, I guess - maybe I was looking at the stats for one engine and actually put on a different type. Certainly possible. I think the battery was recharging during my ascent, but stopped when I was thrusting in space.

Anyway, I had my kerbal dude get out and push-point the rocket in the right direction, but accidentally ejected the rockets in the attempt (Why is decoupling the same key as leaving ship!? Argh!) Tried to do a nudge by hopping off then hopping back on, but instead of pressing space->f, I pressed f->space. And then my doom was sealed. >_<

Stage locking is your friend.  Alt+L (on Windows) will lock your current stage so accidental spacebar presses do nothing.  Provided you remember to actually lock it, of course (and unlock it... "why isn't my parachute deploying?!")
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 28, 2013, 10:58:46 am
Speaking of accidental ejection, once I decoupled my high atmosphere~LEO engines while they were on. They blasted away and took my final stage radial engines in the process :( Thankfully, I was able to use the transit engine to get into an elliptical solar orbit, so all was good.

I wish you could revert stage ejection >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 28, 2013, 11:39:18 am
Sadly, it's not physically possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 12:17:23 pm
If you decouple with docking ports, you can reconnect... or use quicksaves...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 12:19:48 pm
I don't really get how you could 'accidentally' decouple, although I never keep a finger on a key until I need it so I might just be an oddity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 12:21:43 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 12:19:48 pm
I don't really get how you could 'accidentally' decouple, although I never keep a finger on a key until I need it so I might just be an oddity.
I respect your trigger discipline.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 12:25:56 pm
Thanks.

Also, what's the minimum fuel can I'd need to land on the Mun and then get back to Kerbin? I'm not sure I'm a proficient engineer to make a lander stage separately, much less a good enough pilot to try and get back to the transfer stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 12:28:17 pm
First: Get something that reports Dv stats - Mechjeb and Engineer work.
When beginning a landing and takeoff, to bring back to Kerbin and making a parachute landing from a crash course (not attempting a kerbin orbit), you generally want to bring about 2,000 or so.  The amount of fuel you need depends entirely on your vessel's weight and engine type.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 01:16:34 pm
If it helps anything I managed to land on the mun and return to kerbin without having to reconnect to a booster, with the short medium size engine and a single long medium size fuel tank. 

Fraid I don't know the part names, but hopefully the vague description helps.  But that should be all you need to deorbit, land, and return to kerbin from mun orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 01:27:41 pm
I'm trying to stay completely vanilla, because I'm badass lazy. Honestly, I know nothing about rocket science, so I'd just be getting numbers that mean nothing to me anyway.

On top of that I'm playing Career mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 28, 2013, 01:33:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 12:19:48 pm
I don't really get how you could 'accidentally' decouple, although I never keep a finger on a key until I need it so I might just be an oddity.

Because the same key does different things in different situations, and sometimes you may think you're in one situation but you're actually in the other (like in my case). My finger was on the key because I wanted to use it, it just didn't do what I wanted it to do!

Also, I had no idea Alt-L locked stages. That is amazing! Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 01:36:41 pm
Really, something to measure your Dv is pretty vital.  It SHOULD be vanilla more than ANYTHING.  It's probably more important than maneuver nodes, actually - especially considering that nodes display the Dv required, without telling you how much you have.  And these mods are purely informational, just like the altitude display or the map.

A basic lander than can return, would be a capsule, science jr, 3 of the shortest 1m tanks, 909, and landing gear.  Easy way to land is to just face retrograde, then bring your velocity close no zero about 5km, and then do so again at 500m, and ease it down.  Use the IVA view, the radar altimeter in the lower right shows a more accurate view than the display in the upper view.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 28, 2013, 01:38:44 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 01:27:41 pm
I'm trying to stay completely vanilla, because I'm badass lazy. Honestly, I know nothing about rocket science, so I'd just be getting numbers that mean nothing to me anyway.

On top of that I'm playing Career mode.

The whole point in getting your rocket's delta-v from Engineer (or mechjeb) is so that you don't have to do any math.  The numbers from maneuver nodes are in units of delta-v, so you can simply look at your maneuver nodes and see if you have enough delta-v left in your rocket to perform the maneuvers.  Otherwise, you just have your fuel meters, which is a horrible indicator since it depends entirely on vessel mass and engine efficiency.

Ninja'd.  What Girlinhat said.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 28, 2013, 02:02:51 pm
I've been looking into TAC's life support mod, but the spaceport link is off. Can anybody help?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 02:04:41 pm
Could always kinda guesstimate.  It takes roughly 4500 m/sec delta v to get in orbit around kerbin.  Just think of those big monster rockets you need to get into orbit and compare 4500 to how much delta v the node says you need.  Then imagine yer lifter rocket stripped down by that ratio.  That's how much rocket you need.

Yes I know upper stage engines are more efficient than the big berthas, and that 4500 delta-v to get into kerbin orbit is for an ideal launch.

It's incredibly unscientific, but that's what makes it dwarven, and so far I haven't run out of fuel for what I planned to do yet, and only once had entirely too much fuel for a mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 28, 2013, 02:14:38 pm
My go-to design-fix is "Am I running out of fuel? ADD MORE FUEL."

"Am I below 2G? ADD MORE ENGINES."

And "Am I wasting power? ADD SOLID FUEL BOOSTERS."

Hasn't failed me yet! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 28, 2013, 02:22:55 pm
"Is it exploding prematurely? ADD MORE STRUTS."

"Is it working perfectly? ADD MORE PAYLOAD."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 02:31:32 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 28, 2013, 02:49:25 pm
So what all mods do y'all recommend/use? Currently I am using engineer, but I was wondering if I should get FAR or anything like that. It took me a couple days but I got through career mode, but if I changed the game mechanics up a bit with mods I'd probably go through career again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Quote from: Mono124 on October 28, 2013, 02:49:25 pm
So what all mods do y'all recommend/use? Currently I am using engineer, but I was wondering if I should get FAR or anything like that. It took me a couple days but I got through career mode, but if I changed the game mechanics up a bit with mods I'd probably go through career again.
I recommend KSP interstellar. Its a fantastic mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 28, 2013, 02:52:21 pm
FAR
interstellar
near future propulsion
KAS
KW rocketry
etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2013, 02:53:46 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Quote from: Mono124 on October 28, 2013, 02:49:25 pm
So what all mods do y'all recommend/use? Currently I am using engineer, but I was wondering if I should get FAR or anything like that. It took me a couple days but I got through career mode, but if I changed the game mechanics up a bit with mods I'd probably go through career again.
I recommend KSP interstellar. Its a fantastic mod.

I'm replaying career with far, deadly reentry and the treeloader plugin that comes with a much more satisfying tree (communication devices come much later on so you have to return science, and there deadly reentry happens)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 02:54:58 pm
As an extension of Career, I'd get Kethane.  It lets you harvest fuel from most planets and moons so you can continue flying.  There's similar mods for mining and extraplanetary launch pads.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 28, 2013, 02:55:49 pm
I'm still trying to figure out FAR. Last time I used Kethane it slowed things way down. I tend to zoom a lot in both views and it became painful. SelectRoot and PartCatalog are handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 28, 2013, 02:57:49 pm
KAS, KerbalX, Enhanced Navball and Deadly Reentry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 28, 2013, 03:12:12 pm
I've got mechjeb. It's pretty handy for handling long transfer burns and planning transfers that I can't find a good route for after twenty minutes of fiddling with nodes, although it isn't showing up in career mode for some reason despite being set to be available from the "start" tech node. Do I have to start a new career game for new modded parts to show up?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 28, 2013, 03:15:31 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on October 28, 2013, 03:12:12 pm
Do I have to start a new career game for new modded parts to show up?

No.  Open the tech tree, click on the node that the part should be in, and click on it in the parts list on the right.  It'll ask you if you want to unlock it.  Unlocking's free.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 28, 2013, 03:24:04 pm
It's actually not showing up there, at all. It does show up in the inventory in my sandbox mode game, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 28, 2013, 03:25:49 pm
not all mods are compatible with career mode, some parts just don't have the right tags (or something like that)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 28, 2013, 03:40:33 pm
I tried updating it to the build that was released today (ten minutes ago according to the little timer) and now one of them is showing up and it allowed me to research it, although I don't actually see the node for the other (automation.) Probably just not there yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 04:26:35 pm
Okay, so I got Engineer. I don't know what some of these numbers mean, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2013, 04:29:38 pm
Eureka Science Station

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Currently performing a long term plant growth experiment via the Station Science mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 05:15:34 pm
I don't recall exactly what engineer outputs, but the big important numbers I know are Delta-v and TWR.

Delta-v how much potential for changing your velocity you have,   More delta-v is better, you need at least 4500 to get into kerbin orbit, but compared to that getting from kerbin to anywhere is cheap, I think it's about 2k to get to eeloo.

TWR is your thrust to weight ratio.  If it's above 1 your ship is capable of moving up (very slowly) when in kerbin gravity.  Higher is also generally better, though I hear you waste fuel if you have it too high.  Somewhere around 3 or so I think.


These vague likely incorrect tips brought to you by Greiger's dead reckoning rocketry corp.  "Why do complex math when you can guesstimate!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 28, 2013, 05:19:10 pm
Get TWR of 2, and highest Dv you can get.  That's the basics of getting a lifter stage.  Once in space, just get high Dv.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 28, 2013, 05:59:58 pm
Made it to the Mun and back. I think I understand how it works now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 28, 2013, 06:09:18 pm
So, didn't have enough fuel to get my Sun station out of Kerbin orbit, but then I remembered I had waaay too much monopropellant. RCS'd my my into an encounter with the moon and was flung out of there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 28, 2013, 07:58:46 pm
I threw a core part of an interplanetary craft into orbit, mostly just a long truss spine with a large pod on the end. surprising how far staged large boosters will get you. even when initially set up poorly and requiring mid flight stage rearrangement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 09:45:15 pm
I have made a airplane and had one failed attempt to reach the north pole.

But, I realized that there is no rule that says I can't put fuel tanks on the wings and drop them when they are empty for some extra distance.  In fact I can't think of where I got the idea of that I couldn't drop anything.

After that I was more successful and landed on the north ice cap and took some samples and science.

Afterwards Inoticed that my plane was still too heavy to take off without a ramp or dip, but Jeb wanted to go see Santa.  I had to burn some fuel to lose weight, doing that made me realize something.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The ice cap is completely flat and I can drive along the ground at high speed, even under time acceleration, without exploding.   Jet powered sleigh go!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 28, 2013, 10:05:45 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 09:45:15 pm
I have made a airplane and had one failed attempt to reach the north pole.

But, I realized that there is no rule that says I can't put fuel tanks on the wings and drop them when they are empty for some extra distance.  In fact I can't think of where I got the idea of that I couldn't drop anything.

After that I was more successful and landed on the north ice cap and took some samples and science.

Afterwards Inoticed that my plane was still too heavy to take off without a ramp or dip, but Jeb wanted to go see Santa.  I had to burn some fuel to lose weight, doing that made me realize something.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The ice cap is completely flat and I can drive along the ground at high speed, even under time acceleration, without exploding.   Jet powered sleigh go!
What would happen if you deploy the parachutes and cut off the air intakes at the exact same time when traveling at that speed on the ground?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 28, 2013, 10:13:25 pm
Probably an explosion :P 

I already recovered the vessel after exhausting available science (and disappointing Jeb when we reached our destination). I wouldn't be able to easily cut the air intakes anyway, as this plane was never intended to try to transition to space so I never set up a close intakes key.

All the parachutes were linked to the abort button, but it never struck me to see what happens when you deploy 4 wing mounted radial parachutes while traveling over 500 miles per hour on the ground.  My guess is that in the best case all the wings would just be ripped off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 12:05:11 am
Rover wheels pop at far slower speeds than that, unfortunately. I know. I tried with another large rover. It was built to hold some fuel for transfer so I said to myself, "throw some rocket engines on back and let us try for a land speed record."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 01:36:12 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 12:05:11 am
Rover wheels pop at far slower speeds than that, unfortunately. I know. I tried with another large rover. It was built to hold some fuel for transfer so I said to myself, "throw some rocket engines on back and let us try for a land speed record."
Who puts rover wheels on a plane?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 02:08:23 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 01:36:12 am
Who puts rover wheels on a plane?
Spoiler: Counter-argument one (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Counter-argument two (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 29, 2013, 02:26:18 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 02:08:23 am
Spoiler: Counter-argument two (click to show/hide)
Nanananananananana, Bat-Jeb!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 04:44:22 am
HOW?!

Every time I try to make a plane, I get it to lift off, and then it starts fluttering in the wind like a leaf, completely uncontrollable. I have the center of lift matched up with the center of mass, added a zillion control surfaces in all possible directions, and it still flies like shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 05:10:27 am
It's hard to provide general advice as I've no idea what exactly you are doing wrong. Post a pic of something that fails and I can tell you how to improve it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 05:27:37 am
Quote from: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 04:44:22 am
HOW?!

Every time I try to make a plane, I get it to lift off, and then it starts fluttering in the wind like a leaf, completely uncontrollable. I have the center of lift matched up with the center of mass, added a zillion control surfaces in all possible directions, and it still flies like shit.
Make it heavier. The heavier it is the less precision is needed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 05:32:45 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 05:27:37 am
Quote from: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 04:44:22 am
HOW?!

Every time I try to make a plane, I get it to lift off, and then it starts fluttering in the wind like a leaf, completely uncontrollable. I have the center of lift matched up with the center of mass, added a zillion control surfaces in all possible directions, and it still flies like shit.
Make it heavier. The heavier it is the less precision is needed.
"You know what this plane needs? Lead ballast, and more rockets! Its way too light to fly." -Jeb
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 05:34:07 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 05:10:27 am
It's hard to provide general advice as I've no idea what exactly you are doing wrong. Post a pic of something that fails and I can tell you how to improve it.
Will do. I started with basically just a Mk1 cockpit, an air intake, two jet fuel canisters, basic jet engine, a few wings+control surfaces, and landing gears.


Ninja-edit: Ahhh, maybe it was just too light? I'll try making it BIGGER.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 05:36:31 am
Quote from: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 05:34:07 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 05:10:27 am
It's hard to provide general advice as I've no idea what exactly you are doing wrong. Post a pic of something that fails and I can tell you how to improve it.
Will do. I started with basically just a Mk1 cockpit, an air intake, two jet fuel canisters, basic jet engine, a few wings+control surfaces, and landing gears.


Ninja-edit: Ahhh, maybe it was just too light? I'll try making it BIGGER.
If you can make a really well balanced craft that is light then that is what's best to do, but if not then a less efficient but heavier plane can be easier to compensate for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 29, 2013, 05:52:16 am
Spoiler: NOOOO, come back left-wing! I need you to fly. (click to show/hide)
(The wing is drifing off into the distance gravity-less).

The north-pole's cost is very strange and blocky...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 10:26:29 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 01:36:12 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 12:05:11 am
Rover wheels pop at far slower speeds than that, unfortunately. I know. I tried with another large rover. It was built to hold some fuel for transfer so I said to myself, "throw some rocket engines on back and let us try for a land speed record."
Who puts rover wheels on a plane?

Rocket powered rovers are not planes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 29, 2013, 10:34:38 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 10:26:29 am
Quote from: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 01:36:12 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 12:05:11 am
Rover wheels pop at far slower speeds than that, unfortunately. I know. I tried with another large rover. It was built to hold some fuel for transfer so I said to myself, "throw some rocket engines on back and let us try for a land speed record."
Who puts rover wheels on a plane?

Rocket powered rovers are not planes.

not with that attitude they aren't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 am
I figured out how the set target interface worked, and managed to get to the Mun using the lander / command module method, Docking and all. I am proud.

Unfortunately, the 300 sciences that I had gotten are all still on the lander part, which is still orbiting around the Mun, with not a drop of fuel since it was all transferred to the CM for the return trip.

Oh well. I never liked that seismic data anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 29, 2013, 11:05:51 am
Jeb is stuck on Duna :( Everything else but the command pod was destroyed - and there was so much science!

I had not realised how much gravity there was... I figured 0.3 wasn't that much, but it is! I should be able to get nuclear engines by going out into Kerbol orbit and back to Kerbin. Going from 390 ISP to 800 is going to be a mighty change indeed!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 29, 2013, 11:10:18 am
Duna has atmosphere.  No amount of gravity should be an issue when you can parachute down.  And I'm SURE that parachutes weigh less than the fuel you'd be burning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 29, 2013, 12:13:55 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 29, 2013, 11:10:18 am
Duna has atmosphere.  No amount of gravity should be an issue when you can parachute down.  And I'm SURE that parachutes weigh less than the fuel you'd be burning.

Not so sure it is very thin and you need a lot of chutes. Probably lighter to use a combination of chites and rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 29, 2013, 01:04:35 pm
Depends on what you're trying to land on it. A drogue chute plus 4-6 radials should be fine for a re-ascent stage..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 29, 2013, 01:09:00 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 29, 2013, 01:36:12 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 12:05:11 am
Rover wheels pop at far slower speeds than that, unfortunately. I know. I tried with another large rover. It was built to hold some fuel for transfer so I said to myself, "throw some rocket engines on back and let us try for a land speed record."
Who puts rover wheels on a plane?
If placed correctly you can have it so the landing gear touches the ground when extended but the rover wheels touch the ground when the landing gear is retracted. This makes it much easier to taxi the plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 29, 2013, 01:18:41 pm
I'd suggest using 2 'chutes per ton rather than the one you'd need on Kerbin reentry, because the atmosphere doesn't slow you down as much. That said, four radial parachutes is plenty for a 2.5 ton immobile, non-recoverable probe, but having some fuel to burn on the descent also helps, as even with those parachutes my probe would have hit the ground at a fatal velocity.

Same landing probe design (I carried four of the things) landed on Ike just fine. A bit like a mun landing. That was after I unlocked the remainder of the science equipment, so I had gravity detectors and atmosphere probes to boot. So much science!

Only problem is I actually disengaged all four of my landing probes at Duna and Ike, so even though I've got plenty of fuel my orbiter craft won't be able to do any real science at any other planets. And neither the orbiter nor landing probes have docking ports. This was a terrible mistake and I regret everything...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 29, 2013, 01:29:38 pm
one thing not to discount is that duna atmosphere is so thin that the reentry angle actually matters, come in to fast or too step and the chute will be unable to stop you
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 am
I figured out how the set target interface worked, and managed to get to the Mun using the lander / command module method, Docking and all. I am proud.

Unfortunately, the 300 sciences that I had gotten are all still on the lander part, which is still orbiting around the Mun, with not a drop of fuel since it was all transferred to the CM for the return trip.

Oh well. I never liked that seismic data anyway.
Get a Kerbal to the lander, push it with EVA. It may take a while but it will work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 01:43:04 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 am
I figured out how the set target interface worked, and managed to get to the Mun using the lander / command module method, Docking and all. I am proud.

Unfortunately, the 300 sciences that I had gotten are all still on the lander part, which is still orbiting around the Mun, with not a drop of fuel since it was all transferred to the CM for the return trip.

Oh well. I never liked that seismic data anyway.
Get a Kerbal to the lander, push it with EVA. It may take a while but it will work.
If you're going to go through the effort to get a Kerbal to it, why not just dock with it and give it fuel?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 29, 2013, 01:49:04 pm
Another rover because why not. Weight is balanced towards the back four wheels. Docking port in back and fuel on board in the form of 3 FL-T800 tanks. All stock.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:49:15 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 01:43:04 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 am
I figured out how the set target interface worked, and managed to get to the Mun using the lander / command module method, Docking and all. I am proud.

Unfortunately, the 300 sciences that I had gotten are all still on the lander part, which is still orbiting around the Mun, with not a drop of fuel since it was all transferred to the CM for the return trip.

Oh well. I never liked that seismic data anyway.
Get a Kerbal to the lander, push it with EVA. It may take a while but it will work.
If you're going to go through the effort to get a Kerbal to it, why not just dock with it and give it fuel?

That would work too, but only if he bothered to give it a docking port.

Note to self: give all space-active stages at least 1 docking port, in case they need refueling. No more missions scrapped after getting most of the way through!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 02:12:38 pm
Another reason why I like KAS.  You can remove and attach connector ports at will in EVA, so you can transfer fuel to whatever you want.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 02:14:43 pm
Oh my. I just found a Kerbal named "Gordon Kerman" in my applicants list. I think my next launch is going to have some unforseen consequences...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 02:18:31 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:49:15 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 01:43:04 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 am
I figured out how the set target interface worked, and managed to get to the Mun using the lander / command module method, Docking and all. I am proud.

Unfortunately, the 300 sciences that I had gotten are all still on the lander part, which is still orbiting around the Mun, with not a drop of fuel since it was all transferred to the CM for the return trip.

Oh well. I never liked that seismic data anyway.
Get a Kerbal to the lander, push it with EVA. It may take a while but it will work.
If you're going to go through the effort to get a Kerbal to it, why not just dock with it and give it fuel?

That would work too, but only if he bothered to give it a docking port.

Note to self: give all space-active stages at least 1 docking port, in case they need refueling. No more missions scrapped after getting most of the way through!
Or if you're not averse to mods, use KAS. You can replace broken solar panels, add small RCS tanks and thrusters, bolt on command seats, add struts, and use pipes to transfer fuel between any two ships. You can really just send whatever fuel source you need, plus a little "service tech shuttle" - a single Kerbal pod with two small KAS containers attached, containing some pipes, struts, solar panels, and other miscellanea - to get whatever it is you've got broken back on the move.

edit: aand ninja'd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 02:28:06 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 02:18:31 pm
...and use pipes to transfer fuel between any two ships.

I've been trying to figure out if when people say "pipes" with KAS they're just talking about the winch cable, or something else?  Because I've done fuel transfers by attaching a winch cable to a connector port in "docked" mode, but I haven't seen anything called a "pipe" in KAS besides the ground-based pipe attachment point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 02:36:00 pm
Spoiler: Hint: it's not only ground-based (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 02:42:44 pm
Ohh, so the pipe attachment points themselves create the pipes?  I'll have to mess around with them.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 29, 2013, 03:10:22 pm
You need to link them on EVA. Place two pipe attachments, right-click one and select "Link". You'll have a phantom green tube follow your kerbal around, turning red if it creases too much or exceeds the range. Select the other attachment point and select "Link" again, and you'll have both points linked.

This works between two different craft, however afterwards they both count as one craft, as if connected by a winch in docked mode. So having large ground bases connected by pipes might not work so well when loading terrain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on October 29, 2013, 03:16:18 pm
So, really it's just a solid version of a winch cable?  Since you can transfer fuel between two vehicles "docked" via winch -> connector port.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 29, 2013, 03:18:38 pm
Quote from: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 04:44:22 am
HOW?!

Every time I try to make a plane, I get it to lift off, and then it starts fluttering in the wind like a leaf, completely uncontrollable. I have the center of lift matched up with the center of mass, added a zillion control surfaces in all possible directions, and it still flies like shit.
Here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures?p=685737&viewfull=1#post685737) is an excellent little comic on how to design KSP aircraft. Aircraft do not need to be complicated; I have a excellent little flier that has only fifteen parts, only two of which are control surfaces.

Other little tidbits about aircraft that I've confirmed:
Ram intakes have higher airflow, but max out drag their drag sooner than radials.
Always add the engines after intakes, even if you just pull them off and put them back on afterwards. This is because the order parts are placed is also the order in which they are processed during each physics tick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 29, 2013, 03:24:16 pm
Scott Manley put out a video recently explaining KSP aerodynamics rather well!

It's pretty simple. Keep your lift behind your center of mass, tilt your wings down at a small angle if you want it to automatically level out, add a tail-fin to the top for more control, and add control surfaces to the wings and tail-fin.

And turn off your capsule torque.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 29, 2013, 03:34:25 pm
Pfft. Real Kerbals just fly horizontally/diagonally with rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 29, 2013, 03:46:27 pm
Guys.

Guys.

Spoiler: Kerbal Multiplayer Program (click to show/hide)

Who wants to play some god damn multiplayer KSP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 29, 2013, 03:47:57 pm
Quote
Trick my friend who's actually good at this game into doing all the hard stuff for me?
all of my yes.

On a more serious note, tough. We need a bay 12 KSP server now. If anyone can host it, that is. I can imagine this taking a badass computer to host.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 03:49:19 pm
So who wants to do this right now? All Bay12 people, let's just do a server!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 29, 2013, 03:50:36 pm
Sadly, I'm busy through this weekend. >_<

Just wanted to share. You guys go and have your fun without me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 29, 2013, 03:59:32 pm
We'll deploy a Glyph Module and a Gryph Module, and let you dock them into the mighty GlyphGryph Station!

Let's do eeeeeeet!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:03:29 pm
Who will host?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:08:36 pm
Wait, I'LL HOST! I'll let you know when it's running
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 29, 2013, 04:11:54 pm
(lol removed)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:14:48 pm
I'm working on a server now. Give me a few.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:17:37 pm
[REDACTED] It's running now. I set it to sandbox, now let's see if you can join. Port is 2076

EDIT: crashed on starting flight. Guess I'll wait for forsaken's server
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:29:21 pm
Something is fucked up with the server download. All of the files won't extract, I've grabbed the file twice now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:30:03 pm
Alright, I'll try running it again. I think I made a mistake with the client.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:35:37 pm
Sorry for double post, but IT LIVES!

I've got the server up and running, client working. Make sure to get a fresh install and copy the CLIENT files into it, then run it and connect to the server. IP is 169.234.157.109
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:38:56 pm
Avast is reporting it as a virus. Thats why I was having trouble. Its blocking the file at run.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 29, 2013, 04:41:08 pm
OK, I'm going to try this out later tonight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:41:24 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:38:56 pm
Avast is reporting it as a virus. Thats why I was having trouble. Its blocking the file at run.
Who shall host? Me or you? I'm running this on a laptop, so if you've got a good desktop, yours will probably be better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:47:16 pm
I've a good desktop for this but I'm getting an error on Host now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 29, 2013, 04:48:37 pm
...I know it sounds obvious, but try running as administrator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:49:31 pm
Are you playing the game with the client? If you're running your normal KSP, it gets that error (as I found out a few minutes ago). You need a fresh install folder, copy the stuff from the KMP client download into it, and run from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:51:07 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 29, 2013, 04:48:37 pm
...I know it sounds obvious, but try running as administrator.
I have.

Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:49:31 pm
Are you playing the game with the client? If you're running your normal KSP, it gets that error (as I found out a few minutes ago). You need a fresh install folder, copy the stuff from the KMP client download into it, and run from there.
What? This is when trying to host the server.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:52:43 pm
Yes, but if you've got the game running, it needs to be the KMP client version: http://kerbalspaceport.com/?p=38206

I got that "being used by another process" server error when I had the standard version running.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 04:54:56 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:52:43 pm
Yes, but if you've got the game running, it needs to be the KMP client version: http://kerbalspaceport.com/?p=38206

I got that "being used by another process" server error when I had the standard version running.
I don't have KSP running at all right now, I'm just trying to get the server up.

I do have other game servers running but that shouldn't cause a problem. In any case you go ahead and host.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 04:56:24 pm
OK. IP is 169.234.157.109 and the port is 2076

When running the game with KMP client, there should be a "connection settings" window that pops up in the main menu.

Go to "add server", enter the IP and port, add it, then connect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 05:07:37 pm
You people and yer making cool servers right when I found a new mod to play with...

Oh and with some bad flying while trying out that improved aerodynamics mod I managed to fowl up a landing.

Bad news is, I lost a plane.  Good news is I gained an extremely slow boat!  Well until I tried going too fast and the remaining engines broke off that was.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 05:15:15 pm
Get on the server already and do it!

So far all we've managed to do is kill Bill Kerman
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 05:24:36 pm
Cool mod but it doesn't work well enough yet. I couldn't launch anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 05:46:22 pm
We appear to have some trouble appearing in the same timestream. But we shall figure it out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 29, 2013, 06:04:47 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 06:06:22 pm
I think I know why it wasn't working for me. been testing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 29, 2013, 06:16:42 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 05:15:15 pm
Get on the server already and do it!

So far all we've managed to do is kill Bill Kerman

will join tomorrow.

can't wait for the Kessler syndrome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 06:17:33 pm
Okay! Figured out the solution to both my problems.

My server is up and will remain up for now.

IP: 68.55.212.49 Port: 7780
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 06:18:27 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on October 29, 2013, 05:15:15 pm
Get on the server already and do it!

So far all we've managed to do is kill Bill Kerman

Well I did crash my jet into Jeb once too, and clip a wing off on the VAB.  Somehow Jeb survived.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 06:31:23 pm
Guys I could use a refueling operation here. Anyone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 29, 2013, 06:49:49 pm
We really should start a new thread for KMP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 07:32:13 pm
Yep. Also, lost connection for a second, someone took my place. Is my Probe still in Munar orbit, or on an escape trajectory? If so, someone please stablize me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2013, 07:38:34 pm
The mod is just a tad too unstable for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 07:44:49 pm
Would be better with a dedicated server, too. I bet this thing eats a lot of processor power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on October 29, 2013, 07:46:30 pm
Got a thingy into Munar orbit, disconnected from the server and it was gone :(. Oh well, I guess that's how it goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
It is a very cool mod.  I would love it more if there were 2 very important improvements.

1 Stability and 2 being able to encounter other people in atmosphere.

I mean your best chance of seeing anybody else within reason would be at or in the airspace near the space center.  Space is just too frikkin big.

Besides I was pulling off some pretty cool flybys of KSC buildings, it would have been cool to buzz rockets on the launchpad during takeoff.

Quote from: Karlito on October 29, 2013, 07:46:30 pm
Got a thingy into Munar orbit, disconnected from the server and it was gone :(. Oh well, I guess that's how it goes.

Best I did on the server was get a spaceplane mostly to space, but FPS took a hard hit and my rocket engine transition timing was off so I lost jet engines and went into a spin.
After that I switched to a rocket that just exploded into a fragmenter above the launchpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 07:57:37 pm
I disconned when lifting off :S



Did get that plane to work, btw. The trick was: SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 29, 2013, 08:04:01 pm
Yeah, connection is too tricky and time warp is too weird to do much.  We should really try and run a very private server with a few people, perhaps on voice chat, so we can agree when we're warping, when we're syncing, and generally cooperate.

I think the biggest goal of this mod would be for close-together action.  Docking, EVA, combat, or trying to load mods and maybe start a kethane mine.  Warping would only be done for interplanetary distances, and synced so there's plenty of warning before things happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 08:22:31 pm
Yes. Also, making sure everyone's in a stable orbit before warping, so we can all synch without crashing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 08:39:44 pm
I tried this with my friend on LAN. We managed to connect, and chat and share screenshots, but we never managed to get into the world while synchronized. Eventually it kept going to where he was "synchronizing" forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on October 29, 2013, 08:49:05 pm
Quote from: Siquo on October 29, 2013, 07:57:37 pm
Did get that plane to work, btw. The trick was: SAS.
Did you look up this video? (http://youtu.be/R-TFRnVyjso)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on October 29, 2013, 09:06:24 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on October 29, 2013, 08:04:01 pm
I think the biggest goal of this mod would be for close-together action.  Docking, EVA, combat, or trying to load mods and maybe start a kethane mine.  Warping would only be done for interplanetary distances, and synced so there's plenty of warning before things happen.

A Macey Dean style big fleet battle would be amazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 09:07:20 pm
We'd have to build all that crap first, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 29, 2013, 09:22:46 pm
True.
In other words, I have attempted to do this, only to give up because internet shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ahappydude on October 29, 2013, 09:32:08 pm
Wow... Such a big step for ksp!

 Fired up ksp quick and had some problems first but then i joined one of your servers, saw one manned rocket and other left behind in orbits haha. Chat seem to work and i think i saw the host wobbling around as a kerbal or that was a glitch., either way it was greatness.

I think they will make like an sticky server list further along on the forums
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on October 29, 2013, 09:38:34 pm
Holy crap, this is a cool mod.

Unfortunetely I live in Aus, so no one is ever online :(

But I will try launching some stuff anyway later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 29, 2013, 10:14:19 pm
Well, I am going to be joining soon. Anyway, if I ever get a VPN back to my house, I could set up a stable dedicated server... however, chances are I'll have to configure the VPN myself (my dad is too busy) which means thanksgiving break.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 29, 2013, 10:22:35 pm
I'll have to take a look at the mod tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 29, 2013, 10:26:26 pm
I keep being told my vessel has prohibited parts, despite a fresh install folder.  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 29, 2013, 10:41:16 pm
A multiplayer mod? Awesome, but dmanit. I can't multiplayer on this internet connection. Or pay the bill for all that data transfer.

I guess I'll just have to finish my mission to Jool on my own ;-;

And it's going... Meh. I managed to get the command module and lander/probe docking modules in orbit and docked to one-another, but couldn't figure out how to transfer fuel between them for the life of me. And nearly de-orbited it because the docking procedure lowered my periapsis. And then I tried launching the engine module to throw the thing all the way out to Jool. It repeatedly exploded during launch, and I'm not exactly sure what's up with it now. More struts I could have, but connecting what to what else which it is not already connected to? Do two struts connecting the same two objects actually benefit the connection? So many struts, so many explosions!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
being able to encounter other people in atmosphere
You can't see other people in atmosphere? That would explain why I didn't ever manage to see my friend, we just tried to fly planes. I didn't read about that feature anywhere though...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 29, 2013, 11:08:23 pm
OH MY GOD. YES. DO WANT BUT... SAT. D- in Calculus. College applications.


 :( x 100.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 29, 2013, 11:16:41 pm
So... I managed to put a full orange tank in orbit, and was juuust about to dock it with the sat when I got thrown into the space center. When I finally regained control of my craft... no Sat in the map. Hmm.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on October 29, 2013, 11:43:19 pm
Gravity meters return 60 science for flying close over a Lunar region, 180 for landing.

I sent a lander with five meters, and had to give up the ones that would be easy to get again.

Next lander is going to be all gravity meters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on October 29, 2013, 11:56:35 pm
AAAND we've just got a confirmed spacejunk collision of the server. Poor Mono :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 30, 2013, 01:24:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
being able to encounter other people in atmosphere
You can't see other people in atmosphere? That would explain why I didn't ever manage to see my friend, we just tried to fly planes. I didn't read about that feature anywhere though...
I think there's a 40km exclusion zone around the KSC, to allow for multiple launches at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 30, 2013, 01:25:54 am
Quote from: Krevsin on October 30, 2013, 01:24:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
being able to encounter other people in atmosphere
You can't see other people in atmosphere? That would explain why I didn't ever manage to see my friend, we just tried to fly planes. I didn't read about that feature anywhere though...
I think there's a 40km exclusion zone around the KSC, to allow for multiple launches at the same time.

park a cannon 70 kilometers away and intercept people as they're executing their gravity turn

there will be no survivors
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2013, 02:55:19 am
uhm which server are we finally using? forsaken's?

is there a thread? I wanted to start my refueling station (which is currently in munar orbit, low on fuel) :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2013, 04:31:57 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2013, 02:55:19 am
uhm which server are we finally using? forsaken's?

is there a thread? I wanted to start my refueling station (which is currently in munar orbit, low on fuel) :P
I'll leave mine up for a while. Which one you use is up to you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 30, 2013, 06:38:37 am
As awesome as multiplayer KSP sounds I'll pass until it gets more stable.
Also busy mastering all my other mods. Like the Interstellar mod. FUCKING WARP DRIVE BITCHES.
Speaking of warp drive, smacking into a planet at 5 times the speed of light results in your command module detaching and refusing to fall out of warp.
Despite the warp drive getting knocked off.

Imma make a station with warp drive  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2013, 06:39:43 am
"Warp Drive Bitches" sounds like a really amusing porn movie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 30, 2013, 06:57:16 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2013, 06:39:43 am
"Warp Drive Bitches" sounds like a really amusing porn movie.
You win the internet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 30, 2013, 07:35:56 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2013, 06:39:43 am
"Warp Drive Bitches" sounds like a really amusing porn movie.
Punctuation.  Sometimes it's a win whether used correctly or not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 30, 2013, 07:51:53 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 30, 2013, 01:25:54 am
Quote from: Krevsin on October 30, 2013, 01:24:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
being able to encounter other people in atmosphere
You can't see other people in atmosphere? That would explain why I didn't ever manage to see my friend, we just tried to fly planes. I didn't read about that feature anywhere though...
I think there's a 40km exclusion zone around the KSC, to allow for multiple launches at the same time.

park a cannon 70 kilometers away and intercept people as they're executing their gravity turn

there will be no survivors
There's also the fact that people in atmosphere don't show up unless they're 2.5km away or less from you. Because physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 30, 2013, 07:53:30 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on October 30, 2013, 07:51:53 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on October 30, 2013, 01:25:54 am
Quote from: Krevsin on October 30, 2013, 01:24:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on October 29, 2013, 10:43:09 pm
Quote from: Greiger on October 29, 2013, 07:52:56 pm
being able to encounter other people in atmosphere
You can't see other people in atmosphere? That would explain why I didn't ever manage to see my friend, we just tried to fly planes. I didn't read about that feature anywhere though...
I think there's a 40km exclusion zone around the KSC, to allow for multiple launches at the same time.

park a cannon 70 kilometers away and intercept people as they're executing their gravity turn

there will be no survivors
There's also the fact that people in atmosphere don't show up unless they're 2.5km away or less from you. Because physics.
Actually I'm pretty sure that debris in atmosphere has infinite range now. Because I've seen debris from in excess of 10km away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 30, 2013, 08:12:28 am
Guess it's time I stopped being so damn lazy and threw mods into the new version.
Time to try out B9, I guess.
Still too lazy to get Kethane again, though :D
EDIT: Is there any way to precisely alter the rotation of a part instead of just 90 degrees in whatever direction?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on October 30, 2013, 10:41:07 am
Hold shift
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 30, 2013, 10:42:40 am
Awesome, thanks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 30, 2013, 10:54:02 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on October 30, 2013, 10:41:07 am
Hold shift
O.O HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. I MUST GO TRY NOW.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 30, 2013, 11:02:45 am
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Key_Bindings
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:29:18 am
I just joined the server and nobody was on, so I thought I'd just put a fuel depot into orbit.

The physics is a bit more fiddly, like engines just fall off on the launchpad, but besides that this works great!


And, so many crafts in Kerbin orbit!


Can you make a server in career mode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on October 30, 2013, 11:30:45 am
Currently no, it's not working for career mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:37:23 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.

Radial decoupler + Probe maybe?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 30, 2013, 11:39:36 am
Quote from: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:37:23 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.

Radial decoupler + Probe maybe?

Docking ports and struts for liftoff. Heck, I've use decouplers and ports. Pretty sure I posted an image here. It was a solar power arm and 2-4 probes for a space station around another planet. I didn't want the jr docking ports on the arm so I did decouplers and the probes docked with the main body of the station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:41:19 am
Oops, yeah I read de-tachable.
Anyways, yeah, docking ports....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 30, 2013, 11:46:46 am
Quote from: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:37:23 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.

Radial decoupler + Probe maybe?

Note that you'll need two decouplers or else your probe won't by symmetrical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 30, 2013, 11:48:05 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on October 30, 2013, 11:46:46 am
Quote from: ank on October 30, 2013, 11:37:23 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.

Radial decoupler + Probe maybe?

Note that you'll need two decouplers or else your probe won't by symmetrical.

It doesn't need to be symmetrical. Just balance the weight by moving things around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2013, 11:55:30 am
Also the griders allow you to radial everything
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 12:15:43 pm
Please let me know when somebody wants to do an orbital high-five!  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 30, 2013, 12:17:02 pm
Quote from: ank on October 30, 2013, 12:15:43 pm
Please let me know when somebody wants to do an orbital high-five!  8)

if my hardware allows? now.

i'll be getting on within the moment
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 12:28:10 pm
I'll come on in a moment as well then, just hope the server doesn't blow up from 2 people at once!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on October 30, 2013, 01:11:32 pm
PTW, just bought this recently, I might get some ideas if I stick around long enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 30, 2013, 01:48:30 pm
forsaken's server is beating my shit in with a hammer at the moment

magma actually asked me what sort of stuff must be occurring for me to be unable to put a rocket in orbit that's got enough delta-v to probably get the hell out of dodge and land on a planet so i'll give you a brief rundown

you know, other than the numerous amounts of udp connections/disconnections that i've been getting a fuckload of times (thankfully i at least managed to universe sync after a dozen attempts) there's the kraken which likes to kick in at random intervals especially when things are looking pretty promising and time jumps which turn my 9 seconds before apo into 30 seconds after apo and rapidly slamming back into kerbin

so there's an explanation for you. i'll keep trying to deliver the station core though, and it didn't work like this before as it was a far smoother ride before (as in about ten hours ago when i first checked it out)

ank and magma seemed to be playing without any connection problems though so there's that.

e:
Spoiler: fuck this shit, actually (click to show/hide)

here's the craft file go nuts (http://www15.zippyshare.com/v/69999979/file.html)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 30, 2013, 01:58:06 pm
The kraken did eat on of my planes on the runway.

But it had Jeb in it, so he just teleported right next to the runway.... Jeb is badass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 30, 2013, 03:26:36 pm
So after Ank and LordSlowpoke left, I played on for a while, and I launched two "space station modules", aka "things with docking ports and RCS on them", into identical high Kerbin orbit, I was trying to figure out how rendezvouses worked. No connection issues at all. Then I accidentally switched to Jebediah, and the server disconnected me and wouldn't let me join again. Maybe it has to do with the time warps I did, although I also switched between my own two crafts in between warps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2013, 04:14:00 pm
cannot connect anymore. will go and design and fantasize about stuff
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 30, 2013, 04:26:13 pm
Maybe the server crashed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2013, 05:56:57 pm
training in bringing a helluvalot of fuel to laythe.

a bit of luck,

Spoiler: a bit of maths (click to show/hide)
(courtesy of http://alterbaron.github.io/ksp_aerocalc/ )

and some more luck after, perfect aereobrake planned almost from the ascent node (the correction once captured by laythe was 1.34dv)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

clapclapclap  8)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

yes, I used to the last drop of the side tanks fuel to circularize.

I should probably remove a monopropellant tank and make the side rocket detachable,
but as a proof of concept of laythe refuel node it worked!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on October 30, 2013, 06:16:30 pm
So, since MP hasn't been working very well for me, I decided to play around with my singleplayer career mode. I had installed Interstellar a while ago, and found out that the A.I. cores get a ton of research with a tiny bit of effort. I put up a core with a nuclear reactor that I figured would last a while, put on 100000x warp, and went to class. I came back with 1500 science, and a dead reactor, therefore a dead piece of debris around the Mun. I improved on my design (actually, I didn't even have a design for the first one) and basically created a satellite core for my next A.I. Science Satellite, so I could remove and add nuclear reactors and such. Once I got the core and a reactor into orbit, I added a science lab section populated by 2 Kerbals so I could regenerate most of the uranium I used up, keeping this satellite going for much longer than the other, which was still orbiting the Mun dead. I also included 4 escape pods, just in case. After I docked everything, I realized that... I had a port on my dead Satellite. I quickly (actually, really slowly) sent my new A.I. Science Sat with 2 Kerbals to the Mun, and almost cried because I couldn't undock the engine attached to the first Satellite. After I rendezvoused, I figured out a plan, and, quickly spinning my working Sat right next to the broken one, launched one of the escape pods off of a dock using centrifugal force, and apparently aimed well enough to blow up the engine section, leaving one open port. I then rearranged some stuff (I redocked the smaller nuclear generator that the new Sat uses where the escape pod had been, and accidentally took out a set of solar panels (whoops)), and docked to the old A.I. Satellite. I now have a Satellite around the Mun at 200km or so with 2 working A.I.s and a Science Lab manned by Kerbals giving me roughly 2 science a day, and it will be able to stay there for a huge amount of time, netting me enough science to complete my Interstellar KSP tree and allow me to make a few upgraded Alcubierre drives.

Satellite below
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 30, 2013, 06:59:26 pm
Space is a series of tubes. Input Kerbo-hamsters here. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52139

It uses KAS so you can take stuff apart and reattach. It's not the greatest at that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Biag on October 30, 2013, 11:45:15 pm
Finally broke down and bought the game. Bob Kerman has been stuck orbiting the planet in EVA for about a week, and his command pod is very far away from him. I want to launch a rescue mission but I have absolutely no idea how to do it. Advice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 31, 2013, 12:12:49 am
1. use his jetpack (r) to deorbit

2. make sure he lands head-first; those helmets are sturdy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on October 31, 2013, 12:38:02 am
Here's a guide for orbital rendezvous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ). It's a somewhat advanced maneuver. Probably your best bet is to warp around until Bob is close enough to his pod to use his jetpack to get back to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 31, 2013, 05:55:41 am
The best thing from B9 is officially the air brakes.
I've never been able to land so successfully in my life, :DDD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 31, 2013, 06:20:34 am
So, I jumped in with both feet and installed FAR... and immediately lost the ability to get anything into space with my standard launcher. (10 large SRBs surrounding 2 standard 3m fuel tanks with a skipper with a strapped on probe and battery to deorbit.)

Messed around a bit and lost several unmanned rockets until finally throwing fins everywhere I could on the bottom and plopping an ejectable nose cone on the top of my payload with 4 small steering fins attached. (4 small elevator pieces positioned so at default they are outside of the air stream around the rocket, and when used only slightly push into it to avoid giving too much torque that high up on the craft) Seems to have worked. I'd used FAR once, long ago, but never really seriously played with it. Really changes things around and I do have to think differently about my designs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 31, 2013, 06:24:39 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2013, 11:33:30 am
You know what I want? A radially attachable probe.
Use the editor extensions mod. Radially attach anything. (Doesn't always look pretty or work well but it tries!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2013, 06:26:45 am
I'd never had problems with rockets in FAR. If anything it makes rocketry too easy. Maybe my crazy rockets just aren't crazy enough.

Aircraft, on the other hand... take some getting used to.

Also, I heartily recommend using the root part changing mod, SelectRoot, I think it's called. Makes making subassembly-powered probes and payloads a veritable breeze.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on October 31, 2013, 06:28:53 am
There's a part in there for attaching stuff radially that isn't meant to be attached radially. Forget the name but it looks(and is described as) a broken clamp-o-tron. I believe it's in the structural tab.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2013, 07:00:39 am
Curiously, regular clamp-o-trons work just as well. Even better, since you have the junior clamp-o-tron for smaller parts, and retain the capability of detaching the part without cluttering up the staging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 31, 2013, 07:02:03 am
I tried to make an Apollo-style moon lander, but I made it waaay too heavy to successfully get into LEO. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 31, 2013, 07:03:36 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on October 31, 2013, 07:02:03 am
I tried to make an Apollo-style moon lander, but I made it waaay too heavy to successfully get into LEO. :(
You mean LKO?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on October 31, 2013, 07:08:24 am
I prefer LEO and HEO myself :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 31, 2013, 07:29:06 am
I got a spaceplane into Mun orbit and back using a refuel rocket in Kerbin orbit.

MOAR PRIDE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 31, 2013, 08:14:27 am
I learned that while it is relatively easy to recover a plane from a flat spin in vanilla given enough altitude, going into a flat spin in FAR is a death sentence.  Wiggle your control surfaces all you want they aren't doing jack with all the air coming from the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2013, 09:01:04 am
Unless you are actually a capable (read: paranoid) designer and have added powerful air brakes for just such an occasion. Kill throttle, deploy air brakes, and pray you have enough altitude to pull up.

That, or control surfaces with enough deflection to retain some control even in a flat spin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 31, 2013, 09:09:08 am
My friend is trying to get a KMP server up and running, to no avail so far. I'm getting a "trying to connect to [IP address]" then "disconnected", nothing else. He's reinstalling the server now. :/

EDIT: we reversed the roles, it doesn't work either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 31, 2013, 10:48:22 am
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on October 31, 2013, 09:09:08 am
My friend is trying to get a KMP server up and running, to no avail so far. I'm getting a "trying to connect to [IP address]" then "disconnected", nothing else. He's reinstalling the server now. :/

EDIT: we reversed the roles, it doesn't work either.

firewalls

ports and forwarding thereof

internet connection too slow

all of these can be a factor in your failure to multispace
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on October 31, 2013, 12:34:32 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on October 31, 2013, 09:09:08 am
My friend is trying to get a KMP server up and running, to no avail so far. I'm getting a "trying to connect to [IP address]" then "disconnected", nothing else. He's reinstalling the server now. :/

EDIT: we reversed the roles, it doesn't work either.
If you've never hosted a server before, it's probably just a question of forwarding ports from your router. Make sure you forward 2076, or a new port you agree on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 31, 2013, 03:31:11 pm
Also kmp is updated http://www.reddit.com/r/KMP/comments/1pml1m/psa_kmp_v011_is_now_available/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 31, 2013, 03:35:58 pm
Just step back for a moment and think about this:
They modded multiplayer into a singleplayer game...

Is this the greatest mod of history? my memory?

EDIT: Fixed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 31, 2013, 03:38:36 pm
That sort of thing is done all the time. Like the MMO mod for Fallout 2.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 31, 2013, 03:42:01 pm
I'm pretty sure that's an entirely standalone game with an engine built from the ground up that happens to play exactly like Fallout 2, which is... also pretty damn impressive.


There's a multiplayer mod for Oblivion (http://elderscrolls.filefront.com/file/OblivionReborn;94756), though, which is, in fact, really, really impressive. However, it stopped being supported a while back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 31, 2013, 03:45:57 pm
And the time they made gta (3 or san andreas) multiplayer
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2013, 03:48:54 pm
Or the multiplayer mod for San Andreas... (edit: ninja'd)

Really, any game where it's possible to write external plugins for game mechanics is susceptible to this.
I'm somewhat more impressed at shader injection that was done with the "Tatnium" project for Oblivion, enabling it to function on GeForce 4 Ti videocards. Which is how I initially played the damn thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 31, 2013, 03:49:52 pm
Didn't Just Cause 2 get a multiplayer mod too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 31, 2013, 03:54:58 pm
It was too bugged to live when I checked.

Btw, the amazing part is that you can actually collide and eventually dock, which require exceptional inesse in position calculation

We aren't even talking about cars, but things doing 3km/s

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on October 31, 2013, 03:55:49 pm
Indeed, and if I remember right the entire thing devolved into chaos, mayhem, and spawn camping.

So obviously the game is about twenty times better now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 31, 2013, 10:26:35 pm
Looking for a bit of advice. I'm using protractor to help get to other planets and it's working fine, but I'm having trouble tweaking my approach once in transit. Before leaving Kerbin's SOI I place a maneuver node at the descending and I lower the periapsis as desired. Once leaving Kerbin's SOI the node doesn't appear to be on the path any more and performing the maneuver doesn't do what it should. If I wait and place the maneuver node after leaving Kerbin's SOI no altered periapsis information comes up. Am I making some obvious mistake?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 01, 2013, 01:55:23 am
If you transit soi at high warp you will get a big error on your flight path
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 01, 2013, 02:57:52 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 01, 2013, 01:55:23 am
If you transit soi at high warp you will get a big error on your flight path
So that explains why the final transit orbit changes all the time after the ejection burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2013, 04:50:16 am
QUESTION: If I purchase the game from the website, do I get  DRM-free version, or a steam key?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 01, 2013, 04:54:24 am
The Steam version is DRM-free.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 01, 2013, 04:55:42 am
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2013, 04:50:16 am
QUESTION: If I purchase the game from the website, do I get  DRM-free version, or a steam key?

Quote from: FAQ
I bought the game on the KSP Store, but I want it on Steam. Will you give me a Steam Key?

Yes, we now offer the choice to transfer KSP purchases from before the game was available on Steam, note that this process is OPTIONAL and IRREVERSIBLE. If you transfer your purchase to Steam, you will no longer be able to download or update the game from the KSPStore, but also nobody's forcing you to go to Steam, if you opt not to transfer, you can still download and update the game as usual. To move to Steam, log in to your KSPStore profile and you will find the button to start the process next to your download link. Again please note that you will only be eligible for a transfer if you purchased the game before it was on Steam, no exceptions, please don't insist.

I bought the game on Steam, but I want it on the KSP Store as well. Would you activate my account for download?

No, sorry, the migration will not work that way. If you bought the game on Steam, you will only have it on Steam. To get it in the KSP Store too, you will have to purchase it here. Do keep in mind that the Steam version is DRM free, so it can be played offline as well, so you're really not missing out on anything with the Steam version instead of the KSP Store one.

This seems to imply that the website shop is non-steam. However, the steam version is DRM free, so there's no real reason not to buy it there. ((Save from the fact that it earns Squad a few more cents, that is.))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2013, 06:00:04 am
Errr.... Steam itself *is* DRM by pretty much any definition. That's why I'm interested in knowing whether I can get it outside of steam or not. But yeah, it seems their website provides DRM versions as per your quote.


(Besides, I do like to avoid middlement for precisedly the reason you stated. If I'm going to support indies, might as well go all the way)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 01, 2013, 06:01:55 am
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2013, 06:00:04 am
Errr.... Steam itself *is* DRM by pretty much any definition. That's why I'm interested in knowing whether I can get it outside of steam or not...
I'm not sure how to make it clearer, but the KSP you download through steam has NO DRM. Zero. You could copy the folder and send it to someone and it would work fine. With most steam games they have inserted code which makes it not run if you are not logged in to steam and own the game.

So yes, you can get it outside of steam. We answered you. You can also get it IN steam. Either way there is no DRM.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 01, 2013, 06:03:27 am
Steam isn't DRM. It's a distribution platform, with a built-in overlay that allows games access to its functions, including DRM and cheat prevention.

Key word being "allows". Games are free to use Steam solely as a distribution platform, without using Steam integration. Which is what KSP does.

Besides, what few cents you give Squad by purchasing the game from their store, you more than likely take back in bandwidth you drain off their update servers, instead of Valve's update servers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 01, 2013, 06:04:08 am
Some people just dislike steam for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 06:56:52 am
And you can still buy it from Squad directly and then transfer to Steam, if you like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 01, 2013, 06:59:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 06:56:52 am
And you can still buy it from Squad directly and then transfer to Steam, if you like.
"Again please note that you will only be eligible for a transfer if you purchased the game before it was on Steam, no exceptions, please don't insist."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 01, 2013, 07:01:32 am
Like me!

I dunno if I would want to transfer though. What's the benefits? What's the drawbacks? :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 01, 2013, 07:03:49 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 01, 2013, 07:01:32 am
Like me!

I dunno if I would want to transfer though. What's the benefits? What's the drawbacks? :o
For me the benefit is having all of my games available through one platform and having them update in the background without me worrying about it.

The drawback is I guess if you don't like steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 07:26:16 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 01, 2013, 06:59:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 06:56:52 am
And you can still buy it from Squad directly and then transfer to Steam, if you like.
"Again please note that you will only be eligible for a transfer if you purchased the game before it was on Steam, no exceptions, please don't insist."
Welp, guess I missed that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 01, 2013, 07:30:15 am
I think I've said before (though I don't remember if it was here or on the game's forum). For a game with no DRM, no achievements (not even planned ones), no Steam integration, and with known troubles with updating as masses of people try to download from an oft-overloaded server, there is literally not a single reason not to have the game on Steam. You can even, if you want to support the devs, buy multiple copies of the game, then give them out to friends or just raffle them off. You literally don't even have to have Steam running unless you want to update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 01, 2013, 07:47:27 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 01, 2013, 01:55:23 am
If you transit soi at high warp you will get a big error on your flight path
Thank you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 01, 2013, 08:05:01 am
I've got the game on Steam simply for the updates, and because the Squad download would OFTEN quit after about 30 seconds and take a dozen attempts to actually download.  It's pure convenience for me.  And if you do have it on Steam and don't like Steam, you can turn steam off, and go through the steamapps folder to find the game and run it directly without ever running Steam.

Also why do people keep hitting bugs with timewarp?  Seriously, when you start warping you start making physics guesses, sometimes not even 'best guess'.  Don't warp for anything you care to achieve with accuracy, and your first instinct with any issue should be to check your warp settings!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 01, 2013, 08:12:32 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 01, 2013, 08:05:01 am
Also why do people keep hitting bugs with timewarp?  Seriously, when you start warping you start making physics guesses, sometimes not even 'best guess'.  Don't warp for anything you care to achieve with accuracy, and your first instinct with any issue should be to check your warp settings!

Uh? No actually there are no guesses involved and it is extremely precise. The ony problem is that at high warp will recognize the soi switch too late - when the time increment ends instead of on the soi boubdary. There is but one quirk, and easily avoided.


Edit: I see, maybe you were talking about the 4x physical time accelleration and then I agree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 01, 2013, 08:23:51 am
Warp's fine for 'stable' movement.  Continuing an orbit or moving through the bulk of a Homman.  But, warp can't handle change much, if at all.  When performing physics, or transitioning SOI, or anything else that MIGHT even cause a change in the game, warp just isn't built to handle it well at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on November 01, 2013, 11:00:27 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 07:26:16 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 01, 2013, 06:59:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 06:56:52 am
And you can still buy it from Squad directly and then transfer to Steam, if you like.
"Again please note that you will only be eligible for a transfer if you purchased the game before it was on Steam, no exceptions, please don't insist."
Welp, guess I missed that.
You can just add it as a third party game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 01, 2013, 11:52:22 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on November 01, 2013, 11:00:27 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 07:26:16 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 01, 2013, 06:59:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 01, 2013, 06:56:52 am
And you can still buy it from Squad directly and then transfer to Steam, if you like.
"Again please note that you will only be eligible for a transfer if you purchased the game before it was on Steam, no exceptions, please don't insist."
Welp, guess I missed that.
You can just add it as a third party game.
This is only useful for letting people know you're playing.  It won't auto-update 3rd party games, and there's no Steam interface or achievements anyways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 01, 2013, 12:30:30 pm
Yes, steam will update kerbal space program automatically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 01, 2013, 12:39:34 pm
Quote from: Sensei on November 01, 2013, 12:30:30 pm
Yes, steam will update kerbal space program automatically.

But not while you're playing other games. Meanwhile!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 01, 2013, 01:09:29 pm
Well, my planned mission to Jool died a horrible FPS-related demise. Way too many parts once I got the landers and IPD up there. I'm setting up a new version using only one lander that will dock with a new IPD design that has a docking port at both ends to allow them to be connected end to end in a sort of space-train. Individually they can haul themselves 12km/s, hauling a mass equal to themselves they can push for 5km/s, and hauling a mass twice their weight, or three of them trained together, the one on the end can push the other two 3km/s, detach, and then the second one in line can give the first another shove equal to 5km/s. Hopefully that's enough to get any lander anywhere I want to go, and I can just launch more fuel out to it after the fact if it can't make the return trip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on November 01, 2013, 01:13:05 pm
I've learned you can rotate batteries and goo cans and a lot of stuff so they go inside the thing you have attached them to, make it significantly less likely they'll get knocked if they are battered around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 01, 2013, 01:31:33 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on November 01, 2013, 01:13:05 pm
I've learned you can rotate batteries and goo cans and a lot of stuff so they go inside the thing you have attached them to, make it significantly less likely they'll get knocked if they are battered around.

You can also radially attach anything and set those inside things with the tiny box structure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 01, 2013, 02:22:35 pm
Now that we have an Astronaut Complex that keeps track of lost Kerbonauts, I wish we'd get a "memorial" screen a la XCOM.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 01, 2013, 04:31:18 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 01, 2013, 02:22:35 pm
Now that we have an Astronaut Complex that keeps track of lost Kerbonauts, I wish we'd get a "memorial" screen a la XCOM.
"Jebediah Kerman- Died flying Untitled Ship"
"Bill Kerman- Collided with Kerbin during EVA from Test1"
"Bob Kerman- Missing in action while flying Fuck I'm Out Of Fuel"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 01, 2013, 04:33:33 pm
And in the background would be Kerbals humming Taps. Which would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 01, 2013, 04:38:15 pm
Would be better if all the pictures on the wall were an automatic screenshot from 1 frame before the moment of death.

Picture of a massive fireball on the launchpad?  Check.
Picture of an aircraft speeding into the water after the end of the runway after completely failing to get airborne?  Check.
Picture of a kerbal falling to earth with a number of conspicuous spiraling smoke trails in the background?  Check.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 01, 2013, 04:43:02 pm
Wall of IVA photos 1 frame before death, list of causes with humorous epithets, and Kerbals humming taps (in their characteristic weird high-pitched voices) in the background.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 01, 2013, 04:52:01 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 01, 2013, 04:43:02 pm
Wall of IVA photos 1 frame before death, list of causes with humorous epithets, and Kerbals humming taps (in their characteristic weird high-pitched voices) in the background.
I can only imagine they have weird high pitched voices, but do we ever actually hear them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 01, 2013, 04:52:37 pm
Quote from: Sensei on November 01, 2013, 04:52:01 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 01, 2013, 04:43:02 pm
Wall of IVA photos 1 frame before death, list of causes with humorous epithets, and Kerbals humming taps (in their characteristic weird high-pitched voices) in the background.
I can only imagine they have weird high pitched voices, but do we ever actually hear them?
KSP's official videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 01, 2013, 05:16:35 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 01, 2013, 07:01:32 am
Like me!

I dunno if I would want to transfer though. What's the benefits? What's the drawbacks? :o

Main benefit: updates in the background.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 01, 2013, 05:29:43 pm
I got 3000 science from one single unmanned Eve mission. Also my seven-skipper asparagus lifter managed to get into Eve orbit with the middle stage still attached, even though I had three more engine stages on top of that and even though I didn't use any sort of calculator. Yay me!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 02, 2013, 06:22:09 am
I landed a unmanned probe on Duna's north pole, with goo, thermometer, and a barometer. 700 science for me! yay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 02, 2013, 08:42:10 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 01, 2013, 04:43:02 pm
Wall of IVA photos 1 frame before death, list of causes with humorous epithets, and Kerbals humming taps (in their characteristic weird high-pitched voices) in the background.
I support officially suggesting this to squad, However in order to have images of each kerbal 1 frame before death the game would kinda lag a bit from the constant screenshots. But it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 02, 2013, 08:43:32 am
ooor you can kill the kerbal one frame later, works either way
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on November 02, 2013, 12:11:57 pm
Anybody know of a good tutorial for building spaceplanes (or really planes at all) that don't suck?  Almost every plane I design tends to flip around like crazy as soon as it gets off the ground, and half the ones that make it that far go completely out of control as soon as I try to turn.  The two or three planes I've made that work at all were complete accidents.

Namely, I'm trying to build a spaceplane with the Mk3 fuselage (for transit flights to the space station) and this is just kicking my ass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 02, 2013, 12:23:00 pm
Spaceplanes or SSTO spaceplanes? There's a difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 02, 2013, 12:41:54 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on November 02, 2013, 12:11:57 pm
Anybody know of a good tutorial for building spaceplanes (or really planes at all) that don't suck?  Almost every plane I design tends to flip around like crazy as soon as it gets off the ground, and half the ones that make it that far go completely out of control as soon as I try to turn.  The two or three planes I've made that work at all were complete accidents.

Namely, I'm trying to build a spaceplane with the Mk3 fuselage (for transit flights to the space station) and this is just kicking my ass.

There is a link to an illustrated guide a few pages back
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 12:43:12 pm
Scott Manley has a few good tutorials too
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 02, 2013, 01:21:46 pm
Like I said, it's basically "Keep your lift behind your center of mass"

... Everything else is gravy. That's the most important one, the one that decides between "OHGODOHGODOHGOD" and "Just gonna turn here... aaaand great!"

Also, keep in mind that as you drain tanks, they push your center of mass around. Make sure even a half-filled plane will have the lift behind the mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 01:24:16 pm
I strongly recommend TAC fuel balancer for spaceplanes. It can keep your tanks balanced rather than burning from front tanks first and making you ass heavy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on November 02, 2013, 01:42:52 pm
So are there any tips for getting science at an early stage in the game?  I just picked up the first four upgrades and I'm kinda having a hard time finding science to get (probably has something to do with having pretty terrible ship design).  I've gotten the soil samples and such from Kerbin, and I'm just kind of floundering for science points at this point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 02, 2013, 01:52:02 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 02, 2013, 01:46:00 pm
Goo labs. If you can, land them rather than transmitting the science.

Make ballistic missiles with parachutes or something to send around the globe. Man a mission to you launchpad. No, really. You can also tip a rocket over and scoot it to the water by Kerbal Command. Get science equipment and redo all those missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 02, 2013, 02:10:24 pm
I ran into a surprisingly stable KMP server. How did it achieve its stability?

it resets and wipes everything after one hour

aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

At least, I have further perfected my space station module production capabilities. I have actually managed to stuff both the fighters and refueling facilities for them into one module, which can be attached directly onto a core module for early protection of assets. In this case, Minmus. I claimed the entirely of Minmus for my purposes one of these hours. I didn't get to do jack with it, but still. Mine!

To note is, 0.1.1.3 is actually playable this way. Progress!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 02, 2013, 02:28:34 pm
If you transmit something the first time you get it, do you miss out forever on the full value?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 02:31:18 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 02, 2013, 02:28:34 pm
If you transmit something the first time you get it, do you miss out forever on the full value?
NO
You never lose science, ever. If you transmit you are just deducting that amount from the total you can earn from that biome. You could, given unlimited energy, just sit there and transmit repeatedly and eventually get it all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 02, 2013, 02:32:19 pm
So there's no need to actually return the craft except for the "recovered craft" bonus?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 02, 2013, 02:32:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 02:31:18 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 02, 2013, 02:28:34 pm
If you transmit something the first time you get it, do you miss out forever on the full value?
NO
You never lose science, ever. If you transmit you are just deducting that amount from the total you can earn from that biome. You could, given unlimited energy, just sit there and transmit repeatedly and eventually get it all.

This is being fixed come .23.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 02, 2013, 03:00:10 pm
So, come .23 you actually LOSE science for transmitting first?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 03:01:40 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 02, 2013, 02:32:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 02:31:18 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 02, 2013, 02:28:34 pm
If you transmit something the first time you get it, do you miss out forever on the full value?
NO
You never lose science, ever. If you transmit you are just deducting that amount from the total you can earn from that biome. You could, given unlimited energy, just sit there and transmit repeatedly and eventually get it all.

This is being fixed come .23.
Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 02, 2013, 03:05:30 pm
Transmission percentage will go down with each transmission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 02, 2013, 03:06:09 pm
Quote from: Descan on November 02, 2013, 03:05:30 pm
Transmission percentage will go down with each transmission.
It already does. Or, well, the science value does. You transmit the same but get less and less every time.

In .23 there will be a limit to how much science you can simply transmit. Things like soil samples, air samples, goo experiments, materials lab experiments - anything that isn't simple words or numbers IRL - will never yield their full scientific return if all you do is transmit. You still don't lose any science - but you'll have to actually bring some stuff back to Kerbin (a few times) to actually get all of it. That was my understanding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2013, 03:10:24 pm
Neat. Good change
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 02, 2013, 03:34:47 pm
I thought it was transmissions percentage goes down. Which is completely different than science value and I don't see why you would think I meant science value.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 02, 2013, 03:43:19 pm
The blog post mentions both "transmission yield" and "science gain from transmission decaying to 0%".

I'm guessing the actual mechanic for the cutoff will indeed involve cutting the actual transmission yield (in addition to the science value loss that happens currently), but the effect is still the same. There will be a maximum of how much you can transmit. You'll be able to increase that maximum with the science lab module, processing experiment results "in the field" to increase the transmission yield, but you'll still likely end up with less than "all" of the science points if you don't return your ships and experiments home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 02, 2013, 05:26:46 pm
In that case, they should make science parts able to store multiple experiment results, especially since, say, any mission to the Mun can easily get you into at least 10 different science biomes, much more if you count the gravioli detector.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 02, 2013, 05:36:10 pm
They're adding a part that allows that, too.

see here (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/65574326046/the-daily-kerbal-first-edition)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 02, 2013, 05:42:00 pm
Oh, in that case I almost fully approve of this, although I'd require that only the goo canisters and the Science Jr. need to be returned, since all other science parts just record information which should be fully transmissible via antenna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 02, 2013, 06:00:47 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 02, 2013, 03:00:10 pm
So, come .23 you actually LOSE science for transmitting first?

no total science for any given location will be available, but after a while transmission won't recover anymore - you'll need to bring it back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 02, 2013, 06:14:20 pm
That seems reasonable, I suppose. I like having a science lab to analyze the data before transmission, too. Hopefully that doesn't require kerbals present, or add too much mass...

Speaking of mass, my attempts to create a landing craft with the ability to recover and refine kethane hasn't been going well. Mostly because the launch vehicle flies apart and subsequently explodes. I blame the fact that my mission timer is ALWAYS yellow, signalling that I NEVER get good, honest physics calculations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 02, 2013, 06:19:00 pm
There's a setting in the options that you can change so that it slows down when it can't do physics instead of just doing bad physics...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 02, 2013, 10:54:53 pm
I was really bored, so I made a fighter jet, with missiles, capable of supersonic flight. And then I used it to shoot the VAB.

And I was even more bored so I put it on the Tube of You. If you wanna watch it in action, have a shameless plug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_g_2wuRkjQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on November 02, 2013, 11:12:44 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on November 02, 2013, 10:54:53 pm
I was really bored, so I made a fighter jet, with missiles, capable of supersonic flight. And then I used it to shoot the VAB.

And I was even more bored so I put it on the Tube of You. If you wanna watch it in action, have a shameless plug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_g_2wuRkjQ

Another Kerman bites the dust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 02, 2013, 11:38:07 pm
An hour ago I decided to try making a plane that could deploy a kerbal onto any other part of Kerbin from high altitude.   After much explodign on the runway, including crashing into the runway lights, I eventually managed to take off.  Seeing how stable my plane was I decided to leave it on an upwards trajectory towards the north pole while I browsed the internet.  A while later I suddenly heard some sputtering noises, and quickly switched over to KSP.  My plane was at 13,000 meters and one of my engines just flamed out, putting me into an uncontrollable spiral.  I quickly deactivate both engines, and try to control my dive.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was originally going to hit those cliffs that are on my plane's right.  It took me that long to turn my fall into something controllable.   
 

Eventually I reached 11,000 feet and I decided to switch to the turbojet engine mounted in the center.  I separated the outer two engines and put the throttle to max. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Forgot to put wings on the main stage.  And unfortunately, there was too much atmosphere and I was going too fast to get poor Bob to the external command chair.   I also have no idea how to get kerbals to turn so they hit the ground head first.   

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 02, 2013, 11:47:59 pm
Is that...  Is that a goddam bicycle jet?

Also, I think you went too big.  One of my most effective designs is a mere mk1->mk2 adapter (which has fuel in it) with a turbojet, some swept wings, and radial intakes.  Done right, max thrust will lift off from 20km/s, a single ASAS is able to flip the whole ship on rotation alone, a single radiothermal generator keeps it running, and when you get up towards about 20km you can cut down to something like 20% thrust and cruise through the thin atmosphere.

For planes, one of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is to make them small, and make a lot of wings.  An actually pretty effective design is something resembling a flying saucer - KSP doesn't care about the direction the wings are facing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 02, 2013, 11:52:14 pm
I had another set of wheels on the delta wings, but they were on a radial decoupler.
Next version is going to have a lot less fuel.  I didn't even get through a third of the fuel.  I'm also probally going to replace the middle with liquid fuel and a nuclear engine and try to make a SSTO.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 03, 2013, 12:00:24 am
I have had no luck with external command chairs. I tried to make a plane that used a command chair only to lose control wildly- the kerbalnaut was throwing  the drag and center of mass way off.

I also tried to make a "space motorcycle" as the tip stage in a normal rocket, to test if it was just drag- since it was a tiny ship, it was even worse, and it spun wildly under any thrust. In fact as far as I could tell, Jebediah's head had as much mass as the entire craft. Since it was also too tiny for a reaction wheel, it had to be fully RCS steering which didn't help.

Anyway, to do that you would need to figure out what the center of mass is while you have a kerbal in the command seat. I might later try to guesstimate a craft that actually works. Does anyone know how much a kerbal weighs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 03, 2013, 12:12:45 am
Quote from: Wiki
Kerbals are the native denizens of the planet Kerbin, and the game analog for humankind. Kerbals appear to be bipedal. Mature kerbals stand roughly 0.75 meters in height, and mass approximately 90 kilograms.
Kerbal has a weight of .09 I believe.  With the command seat's weight of .05 your adjusted weight should be .14, I believe.  A Radioisotope generator weighs .08, so two could fairly counterbalance one kerbal on very small vessels.  A Delta Winglet also weighs .07 so two would balance, but cause such airflow differences that it wouldn't fly well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 03, 2013, 12:17:37 am
Quote from: Sensei on November 03, 2013, 12:00:24 am
I have had no luck with external command chairs. I tried to make a plane that used a command chair only to lose control wildly- the kerbalnaut was throwing  the drag and center of mass way off.

I also tried to make a "space motorcycle" as the tip stage in a normal rocket, to test if it was just drag- since it was a tiny ship, it was even worse, and it spun wildly under any thrust. In fact as far as I could tell, Jebediah's head had as much mass as the entire craft. Since it was also too tiny for a reaction wheel, it had to be fully RCS steering which didn't help.

Anyway, to do that you would need to figure out what the center of mass is while you have a kerbal in the command seat. I might later try to guesstimate a craft that actually works. Does anyone know how much a kerbal weighs?
FTL Egg.
Look it up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 03, 2013, 01:25:51 pm
So, it isn't actually accurate that other planets don't have biomes. There is separate stuff for land and oceans on eve (and probably elsewhere too?).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 03, 2013, 01:46:13 pm
Quote from: alway on November 03, 2013, 01:25:51 pm
So, it isn't actually accurate that other planets don't have biomes. There is separate stuff for land and oceans on eve (and probably elsewhere too?).
I believe more planetary biomes are planned to be added.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 03, 2013, 01:48:15 pm
I believe there's "space high over planet", "space just above planet", "surface of planet", and (where applicable), "atmosphere/upper atmosphere of planet" and "planet's water".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 03, 2013, 03:07:04 pm
No, those are the altitudes. A biome is the type of ground under your probe (highlands, shores, ocean etc...), and there is a separate science deposit for every possible combination of altitude and biome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 03, 2013, 03:19:43 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 03, 2013, 03:07:04 pm
No, those are the altitudes. A biome is the type of ground under your probe (highlands, shores, ocean etc...), and there is a separate science deposit for every possible combination of altitude and biome.

only some some combination are differentiated for experiments: like the crew report is the same science pool anywhere in space near kerbin while eva use different science pool per biome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Carnwennan on November 03, 2013, 03:43:34 pm
I got a magneto-probe from KI into orbit around Duna. Pretty decent amount of science since I used Ike to circularize and got some bonus points from that, and it gives me some info on those negative particle thingies I'm going to need later.

Do those itty-bitty probodyne fuel canisters have any actual use? The final satellite stage was going to use them to tighten the orbit around Duna, but they ran out in a split second even with the smallest engine I had.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 03, 2013, 04:03:40 pm
The itty-bitty canisters are basicaly useful as padding between toroidal tanks, the actual amount of fuel they carry is pretty low. They're also lightweight and easy to stack. A small satellite can get decent delta-V out of them with an inline 909 engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 03, 2013, 08:32:05 pm
I realise it's not much, but I landed my first kerbal on the Mun and returned safely :D.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 03, 2013, 08:34:48 pm
Quote from: alway on October 22, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
Just downloaded Extraplanetary Launchpads, KAS, Kethane, MissionController, and NearFuture. Time to go nuts. With a fresh career, of course, since having all the science to start with would just be no fun at all. >:D
Well, added FAR to this list, disabled Mission Controller. It's basically impossible to keep a positive balance in combination with unmodded costs for certain mods in that bunch. Like the NearFuture parts, which are several million each.

Also, today I created an amazing monstrosity to serve as my new Kerbin Atmospheric Science Research Vessel.

A bicycle 3-mast ship.
Spoiler: May I present: The Troll Science. (click to show/hide)
I really like the things you can do with FAR's drag model. Now that drag is properly based on exposed surface area, I can actually make awesome aircraft! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mainiac on November 03, 2013, 08:34:57 pm
Quote from: Vattic on November 03, 2013, 08:32:05 pm
I realise it's not much, but I landed my first kerbal on the Mun and returned safely :D.

Kudos!  Once you can do that, all you need is bigger rockets and you can do anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 03, 2013, 08:46:34 pm
Err... I am working on a module system outa stock parts for bases... Want to go laugh at them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 03, 2013, 09:08:11 pm
The Mun landing is a good part of the battle.  Once you can go there and return you know enough that it's not too much more work to do everything else. 

So I've modded my plane from earlier in an attempt to make a SSTO plane that can return and land safely.  These are the results-
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I made two more models, but I don't have any pictures of them.  One is the longsword series and the other the rapier series.   The longsword could climb the fastest and could take off after only a few seconds, and could then go almost vertical but suffered at high altitudes.   The rapier series' main difference from the Sabre was that I put a bi-coupler by the cockpit so I could put two atmoc engines.  Still wasn't enough. and the added weight made the max altitude ceiling around 23,000 meters. 
I decided to forgo the SSTO designations on all my planes and just called them "High altitude reconnaissance vehicles."  I might even put a sunbeam module on the Sabre and make it an interceptor.  You know, for when the alliums arrive.   
Chances are that the Sabre will be the most accomplished of that whole design scheme.  Tomorrow I'm going to replace the atomic engine, replace it with a regular liquid engine, and replace two of the jet fuel containers with some equivalent weight liquid fuel containers.   I'll also replace the set off circular intakes and another set of ramjet intakes.  If that doesn't work I'll have to go back to the drawing board.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 03, 2013, 11:42:38 pm
Any landing you can walk away from needed more boosters.

That seems like a reasonable design to me.  Should be able to fit another two rocket boosters on the ends of those ram intakes for more 'get to space' oomph, but then you'll be weighed down even more during takeoff.  SSTOs are a delicate balancing act.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 04, 2013, 12:05:06 am
I wonder how many people take the 'needs more boosters' thing seriously and wonder why they never accomplish anything more than spectacular explosions.
Anyway, what are the limits of asparagus? Is there any point in which you just can't shove more layers on something and have to find a new solution?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 04, 2013, 12:07:35 am
no
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 04, 2013, 12:08:27 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 04, 2013, 12:05:06 am
I wonder how many people take the 'needs more boosters' thing seriously and wonder why they never accomplish anything more than spectacular explosions.
Anyway, what are the limits of asparagus? Is there any point in which you just can't shove more layers on something and have to find a new solution?

16 rockomax boosters for a 70 ton payload make you fly out of atmosphere at 400 m/s and that's not even a ridiculous setup

therefore a setup of one rockomax booster per 5 ton upper stage is optimal, though considering the weight of the rockomax booster itself, 7 tonnes are the actual payload said booster can take at takeoff

so theoretically, if you wanted to launch something that's 200 tonnes, you'd need 40 boosters strapped to it, and then a medium lifter stage so you actually make orbit

quality kerbalspace engineering
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on November 04, 2013, 12:09:08 am
The only limit in KSP is your computer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 04, 2013, 12:12:39 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 04, 2013, 12:05:06 am
I wonder how many people take the 'needs more boosters' thing seriously and wonder why they never accomplish anything more than spectacular explosions.
Anyway, what are the limits of asparagus? Is there any point in which you just can't shove more layers on something and have to find a new solution?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56212-1000-Tonnes-to-Orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on November 04, 2013, 12:17:58 am
Spoiler: Landing on duna (click to show/hide)

Ended up crashing ~1000 units of spare fuel into Kerbin on the way back, due to overengineerd lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 04, 2013, 12:19:25 am
Quote from: alexandertnt on November 04, 2013, 12:17:58 am
Spoiler: Landing on duna (click to show/hide)

Ended up crashing ~1000 units of spare fuel into Kerbin, due to overengineerd lander.

this craft

i approve of it

/me claps
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 04, 2013, 12:21:18 am
When your 100t lifter is attached to a 1,000t lifter, then you're kerbaling correctly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 04, 2013, 02:02:46 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 04, 2013, 12:05:06 am
I wonder how many people take the 'needs more boosters' thing seriously and wonder why they never accomplish anything more than spectacular explosions.
Anyway, what are the limits of asparagus? Is there any point in which you just can't shove more layers on something and have to find a new solution?
Yes, there is a limit; it is whatever makes the game run too slowly to feasibly launch.

Assuming you have a good computer, that limit will typically not come until you are launching Spirit of Kerbin sized stations. For me, the limit is right around this:
Quote from: alway on September 22, 2013, 11:46:45 pm
My new fueling station is ready for use:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's actually a pair of them; each starts with 48 mainsails, and can lift 20k lox & 20k fuel. They have all sorts of docking ports; though I found they are a huge pain to dock to other things, since their rcs is weak and way off center.

Needed to clean my apartment tonight; so I decided to go to Jool for the long wait times. Encountered 3 moons, finally landing in the oceans of Laythe. Got 5500 science points for it. Not bad. Now I've got most of the mod parts unlocked, so I can start on interplanetary colonization efforts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 04, 2013, 06:51:17 am
Hah! Solar Magnetohydrodynamics - Dr. Genefrid Kerman et al.  http://imgur.com/a/hCIob
Never before have i felt so bad about the plight of any kerbal, poor genefrid just has no luck.

"Genefrid, biting his lip, in half, I think he's a little pissed. Now we've just gotta get him back to base so we can launch him again. I never "recover" Genefrid. I have to pick him up, and deliver him back to orbit so he can get back to Ike and continue his previous mission."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 04, 2013, 09:02:45 am
That's one of the best LPs I've ever seen...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 04, 2013, 01:21:06 pm
That was amazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2013, 01:25:06 pm
Finally got around to really playing the new version last night. Digging the research stuff. It's kind of exciting unlocking new parts to play with.

Did some basic kerbin launches and orbiting, did some science in a few places on kerbin, and then did a few long-orbit flights and then finally looked towards the mun. So far I've done a flyby and an orbital run, got good science off of both. No landings yet, but I think with the stuff I just unlocked I'll be able to.

Also, I discovered that the Tron Legacy soundtrack works really well for KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 04, 2013, 04:21:07 pm
Jef's most recent Let's play episode is hilarious. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olsw8BlCpTs)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 04, 2013, 07:35:44 pm
The Sabre MKIV is a success.   Replaced the nuclear with an aerospike and two of the jet fuel units with liquid fuel, and I managed to achieve a stable orbit around Kerbin.  If I had a space station up I'd even be able to refuel and go the Minimus.   
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunatly due to shenanagins fuel was completely messed up so I came down with about 100 units of fuel that was completely useless.  I had my jet engines eating fuel from the fuel for the aerospike, and the aerospike eating the fuel for the jet engines.   Because of that I had to attempt an upowered landing. which failed after I ran out of ground.   This thing does not take to water well.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 04, 2013, 07:41:46 pm
more fuel pipes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 04, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
You can disable individual fuel tanks. For a vehicle like this, it's probably worth assigning a hotkey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 04, 2013, 07:57:00 pm
new version of tree loader plugin comes with a science tree that replicates a more natural progression for space flight:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

first level is kind of lame but then you progressively unlocks basic wings, then better ones and it gets a while before you can go and reap the big mun science pools.

I like it. now doing things feels like an accomplishment. using far and deadly reentry and only the second tier wing I brought a plane with the basic jet engine and radial intakes to scrape the upper atmosphere by speeding at the max altitude of the basic engine an then pitching up - almost lost control, but I got the valuable upper atmosphere reading for temperature and pressure....

and it was properly satisfying.

edit:
Spoiler: and the plane (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 04, 2013, 08:04:34 pm
Quote from: Sensei on November 04, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
You can disable individual fuel tanks. For a vehicle like this, it's probably worth assigning a hotkey.
How do you assign a hotkey?  I've got one set up for the turbojets, intakes, and the aerospike, but there are no options avaliable for the fuel tanks.  I have to manuelly disable each tank. 
Also I found a neat tutorial on spaceflight by NASA-  http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf3-4.php
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 04, 2013, 10:44:49 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on November 04, 2013, 08:04:34 pm
Quote from: Sensei on November 04, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
You can disable individual fuel tanks. For a vehicle like this, it's probably worth assigning a hotkey.
How do you assign a hotkey?

There's a mod for that. I forget what it's called.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 04, 2013, 11:37:05 pm
I finally managed to build my first SSTO spaceplane.It is an absolutely useless spaceplane, but I still feel very proud.
(http://i.imgur.com/ew4Mx8N.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GlyphGryph on November 04, 2013, 11:42:46 pm
I've finally decided it's time to dip into mods - Anyone have any suggestions? Preferably stuff that integrates with the custom trees from treeloader.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 04, 2013, 11:47:32 pm
Quote from: alway on November 03, 2013, 08:34:48 pm
Quote from: alway on October 22, 2013, 08:45:00 pm
Just downloaded Extraplanetary Launchpads, KAS, Kethane, and NearFuture.
Well, added FAR to this list.
These add some nice parts, as well as redoing the drag/atmos model in FAR's case. To make them work with the new career mode, you will need to edit some of the parts (some details of the process a few pages back from when I did it).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 04, 2013, 11:51:18 pm
Quote from: GlyphGryph on November 04, 2013, 11:42:46 pm
I've finally decided it's time to dip into mods - Anyone have any suggestions? Preferably stuff that integrates with the custom trees from treeloader.

PartCatalog, SelectRoot, and Kerbal Alarm Clock for utility. KAS for parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 04, 2013, 11:55:03 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 04, 2013, 10:44:49 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on November 04, 2013, 08:04:34 pm
Quote from: Sensei on November 04, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
You can disable individual fuel tanks. For a vehicle like this, it's probably worth assigning a hotkey.
How do you assign a hotkey?

There's a mod for that. I forget what it's called.
In the vehicle editor, up on the top there's little blue buttons- the parts, action groups, and kerbals interface buttons. Press the middle one, action groups, and your parts interface on the left will be replaced with a bunch of functions- like "gear" (G), brakes (B), abort (backspace) etc. The ones I just mentioned are assigned automatically, but you can edit them by clicking a part, seeing what functions are available, and assigning them to that button. There's also quick functions 1-10, which by default are the number keys on your keyboard. So just click parts on your craft and assign functions to buttons.

That said, it DOES seem that you can't shut off fuel tanks in an action group without a mod. What you CAN do in vanilla is right click the fuel tank (once in flight/on the landing strip), and disable the fuel and oxidizer by clicking the little green arrow, which should turn to a red X. You'll have to re-enable that manually the same way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 05, 2013, 08:35:13 am
Note: Using FAR

I managed to create a SSTO spaceplane modeled heavily after the SR-71 included in the FAR pack. Redesigned a bit, added more fuel, added a rocket engine. This thing flies amazingly and with plenty of fuel to spare. I feel like it would have even had enough fuel to land and orbit again without refueling, unfortunately, on reentry over KSP, I overshot a bit, I got impatient and tried to do a hard, high-G turn which flung off one of my jet engines and sent me into a tumbling flat spin which I just couldn't recover from. Up until that point though, amazing craft. Gonna have to play around with the design a bit and maybe post pictures. It does sort of need a purpose though. It's got nothing useful on it, it just goes up and comes back down, although I"m convinced I could get it to the Mun or Minmus without a refuel if I'm incredibly careful, although probably not a landing at either. I'd need to figure out a way to store an extra lander craft on there somehow... but I've got a few ideas.

Also, RIP Lemrick Kerman
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 05, 2013, 10:36:07 am
"It was an amazing craft, up until an engine fell off, it went into an unrecoverable flat spin, and everyone died!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 05, 2013, 10:57:55 am
You'd be surprised how often that happens In Real life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2013, 11:07:00 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on November 05, 2013, 10:57:55 am
You'd be surprised how often that happens In Real life.

Real life needs more space tape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 05, 2013, 11:17:05 am
Redesigned, more control surfaces, fuel system tweaks, experimental cockpit ejection system, went into a spin once again around 25km, but before reaching space. Recovered at about 6000 meters. Turned around, headed back to KSC, managed to get suborbital on the way back and landed. Landing was a little rough, but the engines waited until we got back to fall off this time. I consider it a success. Still needs more polish, and a use other than going ZOOM!.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 05, 2013, 11:24:36 am
I've been thinking, maybe if NASA hired a bunch of Bay 12 forum members to engineer and pilot rockets we'd be getting places a lot more quickly.  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2013, 11:34:42 am
Quote from: greatorder on November 05, 2013, 11:26:29 am
Quote from: IronTomato on November 05, 2013, 11:24:36 am
I've been thinking, maybe if NASA hired a bunch of Bay 12 forum members to engineer and pilot rockets we'd be getting places a lot more quickly.  :o
'This is unreasonable!'
'You're right. It needs more boosters.'
'NO! It'll fall apart five seconds after takeoff!'
'Pfft. Plenty of people to replace the pilots.'

"This guy has exactly the right mix of stupidity and courage."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 05, 2013, 01:30:39 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 05, 2013, 11:07:00 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on November 05, 2013, 10:57:55 am
You'd be surprised how often that happens In Real life.

Real life needs more space tape.
Whoever makes spacetape a reality will be the sole person responsible for the Next Great Leap Forwards in space exploration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:33:13 pm
Ducttape? That should work in space....Right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 05, 2013, 01:33:59 pm
Quote from: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:33:13 pm
Ducttape? That should work in space....Right?
Dunno.

Let's launch someone into space and have them test it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on November 05, 2013, 01:35:03 pm
Quote from: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:33:13 pm
Ducttape? That should work in space....Right?

It doesnt, the adhesive doesnt work in vacuum,  it kinda just melts away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:39:43 pm
Quote from: TwilightWalker on November 05, 2013, 01:35:03 pm
Quote from: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:33:13 pm
Ducttape? That should work in space....Right?

It doesnt, the adhesive doesnt work in vacuum,  it kinda just melts away.
Hmmm....Velcro?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 05, 2013, 01:40:17 pm
Quote from: TwilightWalker on November 05, 2013, 01:35:03 pm
Quote from: M3hillus on November 05, 2013, 01:33:13 pm
Ducttape? That should work in space....Right?

It doesnt, the adhesive doesnt work in vacuum,  it kinda just melts away.
Curse you and your earthly testing!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 05, 2013, 02:01:53 pm
http://www.universetoday.com/13794/the-best-engineering-tool-in-space-duct-tape/

true story!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on November 05, 2013, 02:07:43 pm
That's pretty cool.  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 05, 2013, 03:33:30 pm
I'm just going to drop a link to the latest devlog (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/234-0-23-Update-News) here...

Tweakables!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2013, 03:41:50 pm
No more infinite jeckpack fuel. Data transfer via Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 05, 2013, 04:42:53 pm
So I don't have to pack millions of the same thing just to get more than 20 science from a 30 minute flight anymore? Woo hoo!

Also, sounds like we'll be able to salvage data from a stranded mission and bring it back with the rescue ship. Yay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2013, 04:47:01 pm
Jeb is a smear on that mountain over there and that's okay. He left us data.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 04:59:38 pm
The "no infinite experiment repeats" sound like they're going to make science a lot more painful to happen. No more queueing up dozens of transmissions simultaneously while passing through high atmosphere. Also, no more gathering science from multiple sciomes with the same vessel :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 05, 2013, 05:02:13 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 04:59:38 pm
The "no infinite experiment repeats" sound like they're going to make science a lot more painful to happen. No more queueing up dozens of transmissions simultaneously while passing through high atmosphere. Also, no more gathering science from multiple sciomes with the same vessel :(

Actually, it sounds like instead of repeatedly transmitting from 1 biome, you will be able to gather multiple biome experiments with 1 vessel as long as you collect and store with EVA. Much better then repeatedly mounting slightly different missions to the same planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 05, 2013, 05:06:13 pm
This sounds pretty awesome, I've got to say.

A lot of the major functionality of B9 is getting into stock... I'm betting that "secondary propellants" means SABERS in stock.

And if tweakables are going in, I hope we get adjustable fuel tanks, and thus, realistic NERVAs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 05, 2013, 05:08:32 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 05, 2013, 05:06:13 pm
This sounds pretty awesome, I've got to say.

A lot of the major functionality of B9 is getting into stock... I'm betting that "secondary propellants" means SABERS in stock.

And if tweakables are going in, I hope we get adjustable fuel tanks, and thus, realistic NERVAs.
Could you explain both of these?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 05, 2013, 05:11:18 pm
SABERS start out as airbreathers, then switch to rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 05:55:56 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 05, 2013, 05:02:13 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 04:59:38 pm
The "no infinite experiment repeats" sound like they're going to make science a lot more painful to happen. No more queueing up dozens of transmissions simultaneously while passing through high atmosphere. Also, no more gathering science from multiple sciomes with the same vessel :(

Actually, it sounds like instead of repeatedly transmitting from 1 biome, you will be able to gather multiple biome experiments with 1 vessel as long as you collect and store with EVA. Much better then repeatedly mounting slightly different missions to the same planet.

Take for example a Science Jr, and land it on Eve. If you bring an antenna and a solar panel, you can get 20 transmissions each from Kerbin's surface, low/high Kerbin atmosphere, low/high Kerbin orbit, high over the sun, high/low Eve orbit, high/low Eve atmosphere and Eve's surface. That is a fuckton of science you get there: around 1900, using just the Science Jr.. I unlocked almost the entire tech tree in only six missions (landing pad sample, Mun orbit/return, Mun landing/landing/return, Minmus landing/return, a Moho orbit and an Eve landing), and I don't see how that's grindy at all, since I don't really need to go to the same place twice. Now imagine how much science I would not be able to gather at once if the science modules weren't infinitely resettable (or at least not without the occasional EVA). I couldn't do the atmosphere samples, I'd need to EVA a few times in every other sciome, and the science I'd get from Moho or Eve would be further decimated because I can't return the science completely. This would essentially mean that I wouldn't get enough science on the first trip to the planets, necessitating second and third trips just to get enough science to unlock the necessary parts for the fourth and fifth trips. I really don't see how that's better than before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 05, 2013, 06:09:23 pm
While you won't be able to transmit the data, you can get multiple uses out of the experiments as long as you return the craft to Kerbin. In the current version science stuff is like a camera that can only hold one photo, and said photo cannot be transfered to another receptacle. Now we can actually get more than one use out of a freaking THERMOMETER as long as someone's there to write down the data.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 07:00:17 pm
Erm, you do know that you can reuse a thermometer after transmitting the measurement, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 05, 2013, 07:04:32 pm
At penalty for transmission, though. Or was that the barometer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 05, 2013, 07:04:44 pm
Yes, but for those of us who have taken the no-transmission challenge (which I get the feeling so far is only me) then you'll know the bane of having to visit a place over and again to milk it of all its delicious science because it's really hard to safely and easily transport more than one Science Jr. anywhere when you're still using 1m parts to take off and parachutes to land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 06, 2013, 03:53:20 am
I've set myself the rule of not doing repeat transmissions of the same data, but I really like robotic missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 06, 2013, 05:40:24 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 05:55:56 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 05, 2013, 05:02:13 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 05, 2013, 04:59:38 pm
The "no infinite experiment repeats" sound like they're going to make science a lot more painful to happen. No more queueing up dozens of transmissions simultaneously while passing through high atmosphere. Also, no more gathering science from multiple sciomes with the same vessel :(

Actually, it sounds like instead of repeatedly transmitting from 1 biome, you will be able to gather multiple biome experiments with 1 vessel as long as you collect and store with EVA. Much better then repeatedly mounting slightly different missions to the same planet.

Take for example a Science Jr, and land it on Eve. If you bring an antenna and a solar panel, you can get 20 transmissions each from Kerbin's surface, low/high Kerbin atmosphere, low/high Kerbin orbit, high over the sun, high/low Eve orbit, high/low Eve atmosphere and Eve's surface. That is a fuckton of science you get there: around 1900, using just the Science Jr.. I unlocked almost the entire tech tree in only six missions (landing pad sample, Mun orbit/return, Mun landing/landing/return, Minmus landing/return, a Moho orbit and an Eve landing), and I don't see how that's grindy at all, since I don't really need to go to the same place twice. Now imagine how much science I would not be able to gather at once if the science modules weren't infinitely resettable (or at least not without the occasional EVA). I couldn't do the atmosphere samples, I'd need to EVA a few times in every other sciome, and the science I'd get from Moho or Eve would be further decimated because I can't return the science completely. This would essentially mean that I wouldn't get enough science on the first trip to the planets, necessitating second and third trips just to get enough science to unlock the necessary parts for the fourth and fifth trips. I really don't see how that's better than before.


I don't think you are getting how broken the current system is.
Right now, there is NO reason ever to return anything, you can just spam transmission, and suck up all the science from whereever.
This leads to stupid stuff like 5000 science with only a few parts unlocked.
I want to stress that there is NO penalty to transmission, you just have to do it a bunch of times over and over.

I have yet to meet a person that thinks it fun to spam transmit on 6 different science modules, 20 times during a mission.


The new system will make it so there is a portion of science reserved for bringing it back to Kerbin. That way you can still transmit science, but there will be a reason to make a return craft.


To fix the system for myself, I don't allow transmission of anything but crew reports(which is intended to be transmitted), and tiny bits a science like 3 science from a goo container.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 06, 2013, 05:47:35 am
Your quote tags are broken, so I can't see where the post you quote ends and yours begins.

edit: okay, so text order was broken as well. The paragraph below is now redundant.

Spoiler: Now redundant (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 06, 2013, 05:48:06 am
Ninja fixed!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on November 06, 2013, 05:50:32 am
I think that a surface sample should not be transmittable at all, since half the fun of getting a surface sample should be the challenge of getting it back to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 06, 2013, 05:54:04 am
No, it should still be transmittable, a little. "The soil is gray, mushy, has the consistency of pudding, but tastes awful" is still basic observational data, that an average Kerbal would be able to relay by radio as well as he can an EVA report - the difference being that he can't actually analyze the sample, just describe it. So you get only a small return from it.

But if he brings it to the new Lab module...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 06, 2013, 06:31:19 am
From the info they've given, I think that the lab module will probably be the size of an orange tank or so. Which is pretty cool anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 06, 2013, 06:39:56 am
From the screenshot they've given, it's about the size of two Hitchhikers mashed together. Maybe less.

(http://i.imgur.com/n1p3AYD.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 06, 2013, 06:43:03 am
Somehow I didn't realize that was the lab. So that's half an orange tank.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 06, 2013, 06:47:40 am
I'm pretty sure it will be remodeled too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 06, 2013, 06:53:21 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 06, 2013, 06:43:03 am
Somehow I didn't realize that was the lab. So that's half an orange tank.
Yeah. With the rest of the science stuff being reasonably heavy, I'd expect at least four-five tons in the Lab. A bit of a hefty thing to bring along, but utterly indispensable for places like Eve where getting samples back is incredibly hard. You'd still have to get the kerbal back of course, but that is at least doable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 06, 2013, 01:25:08 pm
This makes me want to design a new mega-rover around a science module to scout Eve and Duna.

I still haven't gotten to Jool orbit, though. I got a redesigned lander and IPD up, but I'm busy with a test flight around the Mun. Located a Kethane deposit worth throwing Jeb at, and I'm going to find out how much potential fuel I can taxi back up to the IPD. Which is going to be important for this mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 06, 2013, 01:34:31 pm
I get the feeling that any missions I do are going to involve a probe delivering the lab itself and then visits by much smaller, lighter craft carrying only the kerbonauts to and from the site.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 06, 2013, 01:45:14 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 06, 2013, 01:34:31 pm
I get the feeling that any missions I do are going to involve a probe delivering the lab itself and then visits by much smaller, lighter craft carrying only the kerbonauts to and from the site.
That sounds ridiculously familliar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct)...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 06, 2013, 01:48:45 pm
Great SCIENCE thinks alike.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 06, 2013, 02:19:55 pm
Just a call for suggestions/ideas here.

My prior attempt at building a modular spacecraft in orbit has met with some obvious problems.

My idea was to send up at least two, possibly more RCS Probe "Tugs" to maneuver pieces around in order to assemble them. Even with two of them attached to opposite ends of my spacecraft pieces, and the pieces being relatively small and easy to deal with (single fuel tanks), I'm having trouble maneuvering them as a single craft. RCS doesn't seem to want to play well with this setup and while I can eventually get the pieces docked, I run into another problem. Nothing wants to dock in the right orientation. I'm aware that this is a common problem with single docking port connections, but I'm curious if anyone has a reliable and easy to use method to fix docking orientation or if I should just change my design around so that that sort of problem wouldn't matter anymore. (I have a few ideas.)

I'm aware of the old "2-3 docking adapter" setup, but I'd never had luck with that when I tried it, only one of the group wanted to actually connect at a time when I tried it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 06, 2013, 02:43:22 pm
The KAS mod may help, what with its winch systems and such. You could effectively dock your craft like you would a ship in a harbor, using mooring lines of winches and similar systems. Further helping set up its final state with the deployable piping and struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2013, 02:43:35 pm
I completely forgot about something for large rovers. Landing gear. A cluster of wheels on one strut. You could avoid the largest wheels entirely. You could make super ugly rocket drag racers with airplane wheels. I have no clue how turning would work, but drag racers only go straight sooooo WHATEVER.


Quote from: alway on November 06, 2013, 02:43:22 pm
The KAS mod may help, what with its winch systems and such. You could effectively dock your craft like you would a ship in a harbor, using mooring lines of winches and similar systems.

Quantum struts can do this but won't help with alignment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on November 06, 2013, 02:51:21 pm
Quantum struts?  When you look at them their state changes?  That... That sounds horrific.

Apparently I need to progress a lot more, horrifying physics awaits, or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 06, 2013, 03:04:28 pm
Quantum struts are mod of some kind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 06, 2013, 03:15:02 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on November 06, 2013, 03:04:28 pm
Quantum struts are mod of some kind.
I'm pretty sure they are basically "reusable struts" though I haven't actually found/downloaded it so I'm just guessing from Scott Manley's vids.
Also if you REALLY want to dock things, Mechjeb is the simplest way by far. It also has Smart A.S.S. if you don't want to go full autopilot, which keeps you oriented right and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 06, 2013, 03:52:54 pm
Quantum Struts are effectively strut bases with modular metal.  Any two QStrut bases can connect to each other and produce a regular strut, including struts linking docked ships together.  So you can send up multiple ships to dock together, put QStruts on each of them, and in orbit connect them together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 06, 2013, 04:12:09 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 06, 2013, 02:43:35 pm
Quote from: alway on November 06, 2013, 02:43:22 pm
The KAS mod may help, what with its winch systems and such. You could effectively dock your craft like you would a ship in a harbor, using mooring lines of winches and similar systems.

Quantum struts can do this but won't help with alignment.
Struts are for post-docking. I mean using winches and such to constrain motion and rotation, allowing for more precise docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 06, 2013, 04:45:25 pm
So I did my first rendezvous today, it was far easier than I thought it was going to be. I made a three-piece satellite (crew module, science module, and fuel station), but I have no idea what else I could put on there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 06, 2013, 04:53:22 pm
Quote from: Karkov on November 06, 2013, 02:51:21 pm
Quantum struts?  When you look at them their state changes?  That... That sounds horrific.

Apparently I need to progress a lot more, horrifying physics awaits, or something.

That's not what observation in quantum mechanics means.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 06, 2013, 05:08:17 pm
Does anyone have a KAS tech-tree config file I could have? And a kethane tech-tree config file? I stuck Quantum Struts under "meta materials" (will probably lower it down, that is rather far in the tree.) but those guys are like... huuuuge. So many parts to file into a config file, it'd just be better if someone's already done it.

I mean if you have them spread out into the actual parts files, that works too, but I'd prefer a seperate config file. @PART[yayboi] and adding in the tech costs and all that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2013, 08:13:26 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 06, 2013, 05:30:01 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 06, 2013, 02:43:35 pm
I completely forgot about something for large rovers. Landing gear.
I only use landing gear as a SRIMECH on rovers.

Then again, I never use large rovers, so...

Right now landing gear is it for anti-popping. Nothing else can take 100m/s +.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 05:07:02 am
Raaaaaah! I just can't land on the Mun. Seriously, every single time, my rover topple over or else I can't see where exactly the ground is. Any advice? Would floodlights help? Haven't unlocked them yet...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 07, 2013, 05:17:40 am
The lights would help, yes. So would landing on the dayside and watching for your shadow. Failing that, switch to IVA and look for the radar altimeter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 06:38:17 am
Interest check: anyone up for a modded bay 12 kksp reality edition 2?

This time we can do it proper using
Antenna network to transmit science requiring satellites and stuff
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56399-0-22-Remote-Tech-2-Build-those-satellite-networks%21

Realistic tech tree starting with planes requiring to grind biomes for science, courtesy of treeloader's traditional tech tree
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0

Far and deadly reentry, to make it proper, and mechjeb that now unlocks progressively along the thech tree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2013, 06:40:06 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 06:38:17 am
Interest check: anyone up for a modded bay 12 kksp reality edition 2?

This time we can do it proper using
Antenna network to transmit science requiring satellites and stuff
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56399-0-22-Remote-Tech-2-Build-those-satellite-networks%21

Realistic tech tree starting with planes requiring to grind biomes for science, courtesy of treeloader's traditional tech tree
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0

Far and deadly reentry, to make it proper, and mechjeb that now unlocks progressively along the thech tree
Will you also be using the rescaled kerbin mod that makes the planet and moon the same size and distance from the sun as Earth?

Modular fuel system mod with realistic fuels....

I'd be interested in playing a turn or two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 06:48:09 am
Not the rescaling because bugs and also The relay network transmission distances wouldn't work with that

No experience with modular fuel system, can be in if it doesn't change things too much in game terms.

No khetane and engine mods, however, too much things going on already with the need of putting satellites in space to send science back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 08:00:07 am
I got a Kerbal on the Mun!

And by the look of it, the bugger will stay there for a while. Any hint on how to do a powered landing? I always stumble.

Spoiler: Poor Jedebiah (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 07, 2013, 08:16:41 am
Watch Scott Manley's videos, I learned from them and was able to do some powered landings (and return). But I wouldnt be able to explain you, sorry.
The best advice I could give you is to come really shallow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 09:06:22 am
Well, will try again for the rescue mission. The good news is that my current launcher is so overpowered I can probably afford to send a double capsule on the Mun to retrieve the guy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 07, 2013, 09:08:43 am
Quote from: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 09:06:22 am
Well, will try again for the rescue mission. The good news is that my current launcher is so overpowered I can probably afford to send a double capsule on the Mun to retrieve the guy.
Make sure you specify to keep the other one empty.  Done wrong right you'll end up with 3 kerbals stranded on Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 09:23:57 am
Here is my rescue capsule. For some reason, the plane cockpit stay empty by default.

(http://i.imgur.com/Zg8ri64.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 07, 2013, 09:26:52 am
Why do you need the RCS tank in your final stage?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 09:28:17 am
Dunno, I'd figure it'd help me not toppling over on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 07, 2013, 09:30:04 am
I don't see any RCS thrusters on your final stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 07, 2013, 09:31:21 am
Reaction wheels and landing struts are usually more than enough unless you land on the lip of a crater or something.

To be brutally honest, I've pretty much never used RCS for anything ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 07, 2013, 09:33:13 am
I am more curious as to how is he going to separate the lower stage with no decoupler. :P

But yeah. RCS tank with no RCS thrusters, and probably too many batteries but that's alright.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 07, 2013, 09:34:06 am
I usually use an ASAS on my lander stage.  MOST times, my lander is light enough that when landing on Mun or even Duna, the ASAS torque is enough to lift it off the ground.  Mechjeb helps here, as I can instruct it "point directly to the sky" and it'll do so, then I extend landing legs and let it settle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 09:35:00 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 07, 2013, 09:30:04 am
I don't see any RCS thrusters on your final stage.

That's a really good point, I appear to have forgotten the RCS thruster. Well, ship's launched already, but I'll definitely think about it for the MkII.


 
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on November 07, 2013, 09:33:13 am
I am more curious as to how is he going to separate the lower stage with no decoupler. :P


Ooops, apparently I plugged in a SAS instead of adecoupler. Well, I'll use the time-honoured method of blowing up your lower stage with your engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 07, 2013, 09:37:28 am
The 909 won't be able to blow up a reaction wheel unit. It just doesn't generate enough heat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 09:49:14 am
I use 4 symmetry thanks and engines on the descent stage, since the new leg made impossible for me to manage to land upright

Then I simply shut down the two top engines and let the torque from the bottom one lifting me upright.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 10:00:05 am
Actually I didn't even get to try to blow up the link with the 909. Since inerty wheel let fuel through, all my lander's fuel was burnt by my penultimate stage.

Well, at least Jebediah wasn't killed by the fiery remains of the rescue mission. Time for another attempt.

P.S. My launcher is so overpowered that I actually went to the moon without the central engine of my asparagus stalk.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 07, 2013, 11:28:52 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 06:38:17 am
Interest check: anyone up for a modded bay 12 kksp reality edition 2?

This time we can do it proper using
Antenna network to transmit science requiring satellites and stuff
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56399-0-22-Remote-Tech-2-Build-those-satellite-networks%21

Realistic tech tree starting with planes requiring to grind biomes for science, courtesy of treeloader's traditional tech tree
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0

Far and deadly reentry, to make it proper, and mechjeb that now unlocks progressively along the thech tree
How about TAC crew support (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul) mod?

Yeah, it's not 0.22 yet, but it can easily be updated (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul?p=708033&viewfull=1#post708033)...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 11:46:29 am
Mission is an half success. I landed on the moon, ~20km from Jebediah, but he then killed himself trying to EVA-Jump to the ship. Now I'm stuck in orbit of Kerbin with not enough fuel: I have to EVA and push the ship. I estimate I'll need ~20 more EVA tank before hitting Kerbin's atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 07, 2013, 11:52:43 am
You'd probably be better off making another ship with a cradle capable of pushing the orbiting ship into the atmosphere. Or just go pick up Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 07, 2013, 11:55:55 am
Quote from: BigD145 on November 07, 2013, 11:52:43 am
You'd probably be better off making another ship with a cradle capable of pushing the orbiting ship into the atmosphere. Or just go pick up Jeb.
Problem there, is you end up running in 1x time because it REALLY doesn't handle collision and warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 07, 2013, 11:59:59 am
Yeah, my peristuff is still over 1m km. Time for operation "Let's push stuff with rockets, nothing could go wrong!".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 12:25:25 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on November 07, 2013, 11:28:52 am
How about TAC crew support (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul) mod?

Yeah, it's not 0.22 yet, but it can easily be updated (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul?p=708033&viewfull=1#post708033)...

Problem is the relay network command station requires a crew of 6. We can do without either, but it would become a full time job just keeping those green things alive if we go for both, and relay network is really useful for making this a collaborative game (no network and you will not be able of transmitting juicy science back so missions won't be possible to run as a standalone sequence of solo runs)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on November 07, 2013, 01:05:21 pm
Well, went to Mun. The first Kerbal to go there managed to die due to a miscalculated lift off. He ran out of fuel without me noticing and hadn't managed to get into Orbit yet. Oops. RIP Dermin.

Jeb went next. I'd modified the rocket design a bit based on the science the first Mun mission netted me. Turns out it was worse for fuel efficiency, so while Jeb landed safe he definitely doesn't have enough fuel to get back. So he's kicking it on the Mun while I design a rescue rocket.

Oh, well, what's KSP without at least one 'Rescue Jeb' mission, eh?

At least the science from his landing got me the 3-man crew pod, so getting him into the rescue ship will at least be straightforward.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 07, 2013, 01:30:09 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 12:25:25 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on November 07, 2013, 11:28:52 am
How about TAC crew support (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul) mod?

Yeah, it's not 0.22 yet, but it can easily be updated (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-21-1-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-28Jul?p=708033&viewfull=1#post708033)...

Problem is the relay network command station requires a crew of 6. We can do without either, but it would become a full time job just keeping those green things alive if we go for both, and relay network is really useful for making this a collaborative game (no network and you will not be able of transmitting juicy science back so missions won't be possible to run as a standalone sequence of solo runs)
Ah, I understand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 01:45:10 pm
So the more planets mod finally happened and it's pretty awesome. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56993-Krag-s-Planet-Factory-New-Planets)

Problem is, the DL was removed for legal reasons. I managed to snag it before it was removed though, and I'm going to give it a shot. I'll let everyone know how it goes!

EDIT: rbray updated his cloud mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55905-0-22-Release-1-City-Lights-and-Clouds) to work with the new planets! Now I really can't wait until I get home...

EDIT2: It's still available on reddit for those that care. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1q008p/expansionkrags_planetfactorysentar_system/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 07, 2013, 01:46:51 pm
Yay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 07, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
This plugin that automatically makes any mention of cloud into butt remains hilarious. "Butt mod".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 07, 2013, 02:42:32 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 07, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
This plugin that automatically makes any mention of cloud into butt remains hilarious. "Butt mod".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 07, 2013, 03:14:46 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 01:45:10 pm
So the more planets mod finally happened and it's pretty awesome. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56993-Krag-s-Planet-Factory-New-Planets)

Problem is, the DL was removed for legal reasons. I managed to snag it before it was removed though, and I'm going to give it a shot. I'll let everyone know how it goes!

EDIT: rbray updated his cloud mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55905-0-22-Release-1-City-Lights-and-Clouds) to work with the new planets! Now I really can't wait until I get home...

EDIT2: It's still available on reddit for those that care. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1q008p/expansionkrags_planetfactorysentar_system/)

Wow, I feel glad I got it while I could. Anyone need a copy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 03:24:00 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 07, 2013, 03:14:46 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 01:45:10 pm
So the more planets mod finally happened and it's pretty awesome. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56993-Krag-s-Planet-Factory-New-Planets)

Problem is, the DL was removed for legal reasons. I managed to snag it before it was removed though, and I'm going to give it a shot. I'll let everyone know how it goes!

EDIT: rbray updated his cloud mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55905-0-22-Release-1-City-Lights-and-Clouds) to work with the new planets! Now I really can't wait until I get home...

EDIT2: It's still available on reddit for those that care. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1q008p/expansionkrags_planetfactorysentar_system/)

Wow, I feel glad I got it while I could. Anyone need a copy?

AFAIK you can still get it on that Reddit link I posted. It has the latest version there too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 05:17:35 pm
So after an insanely long journey, I finally made it to the Sentar local system...

And my god is it gorgeous. Get the clouds plugin right now. It makes everything SO much sexier. Here's some pics I took upon my arrival in the Sentar system. I somehow finagled myself into a weird orbit around Erin, one of the moons of Sentar...

Spoiler: Actual spoiler images ahead, just pics of the new planets (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:18:55 pm
Are those.... rings?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:18:55 pm
Are those.... rings?

They are my good sir, they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 07, 2013, 05:46:27 pm
There is Kethane on the Mun. I need to get an Ore detector up as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:18:55 pm
Are those.... rings?

They are my good sir, they are.

Have you had a chance to fly through them yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 07, 2013, 06:47:37 pm
Waitwaitwait; Erin has its' own little moon? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 06:59:06 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 07, 2013, 05:18:55 pm
Are those.... rings?

They are my good sir, they are.

Have you had a chance to fly through them yet?

Not yet. AFAIK, they're just visual effects at the moment. But man, they are beautiful. I'm in the midst of setting up a refueling base around Jool, because Sentar is reeeeaaaaallllllyyyyy hard to get to without insane delta-v costs. I'll try to get a probe through them soon.

Yup, the moon around Erin is called Pock. It's very very small, and really funny looking. Oh and the Sentar ones aren't the only thing added. There's also Inaccessable, Ascension and Ablate which all orbit the sun. Inaccessable is called such because supposedly it spins so fast it's near impossible to land anywhere except the poles. I think it's supposed to be a comet. That or Ascension, I forget right now.

Spoiler: The new map (click to show/hide)

Ablate is really close to the sun, so I had to take another screenshot.

Spoiler: Ablate (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 07, 2013, 07:05:38 pm
That is one crazy orbit on Ascension. I imagine you could do some interesting things while orbiting it, if you had the timing right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 07:10:24 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 07, 2013, 07:05:38 pm
That is one crazy orbit on Ascension. I imagine you could do some interesting things while orbiting it, if you had the timing right.

Yeah, if you could catch it as it swings by Kerbin, you could ride it all the way out to Eeloo, Sentar or Inaccessable. It passes close (relatively speaking) to all three.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 07, 2013, 07:14:01 pm
-double post, ignore-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 07, 2013, 07:15:56 pm
I just stopped by Ascension. It's this tiny planet (like Gilly tiny), but it has gravity strong enough that jetpacks don't quite work on the surface (which means it had ridiculous density). It also has a small SoI compared to the distances it's at, so in the end I got to its apoapsis and then made my orbit go opposite the way it went, just so I didn't have to spend another hour fiddling with intercepts. Landing is easy, bet getting there is annoying. Also, its orbit almost passes straight through where Sentar orbits, and I had to avoid two seperate intercepts with it while getting there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 07:17:08 pm
Why do all these planet names sound out of a creepypasta to me?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 07, 2013, 07:18:33 pm
What's it's period? I'd imagine an encounter would be fairly challenging.

Ninja'd
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 07, 2013, 07:22:12 pm
I completely forgot about rotation and satellites. Set on a polar orbit, 90 degree inclination, and let the body orbiting below you do all the work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 07:43:37 pm
Managed to get an unmanned lander around Skelton, another one of Sentar's moons. That giant white blotch is supposedly an inactive volcano. I crashed a probe into it earlier, and it's around 28000-29000 metres high. The centre of it is pretty cool looking though, and that's where I'm going to try to land.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 07:53:51 pm
I playtested a bit of the modular fuel mod and it is quite bugged, action group interface stop being responsive when using it and then you need to restart the whole app.

it's a shame, I liked the concept.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 07, 2013, 08:00:59 pm
How much of an atmosphere does Skelton have?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 08:07:00 pm
Enough to make chutes viable.

I made it to the surface, kinda botched the landing a bit, but managed to land on the inner rim of the volcano about 10000m down from the top.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 07, 2013, 08:25:51 pm
To the bad ships!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 08:28:06 pm
That... Could have gone better.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I still have one other lander in orbit though. I'm going to check out the rest of the planet with that one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 07, 2013, 08:32:50 pm
I think someone should really make a science mission to the new planets to see things like air pressure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 08:54:47 pm
--double post--
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 09:30:27 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on November 07, 2013, 08:32:50 pm
I think someone should really make a science mission to the new planets to see things like air pressure.

I'm going to try to do that for Skelton with my second lander. The rover has all the science gear on it. In addition, the planets themselves don't give you science points yet, but it's an easy fix in the config...

Okay, this is what I gathered:

The planet information gives the regular information, it says atmosphere starts at 90000m, but physics warp becomes available around 97000m. Skelton actually has a pretty respectable atmosphere it would seem.

Going off the atmosphere meter on the top, it appears that the next level of atmosphere kicks in around 86000m

Next one is roughly 56000, one after that is about 30000 (that's the lowest level). By 6000 metres I was only going just under 40 m/s before I released the chutes. The atmosphere slowed me down a ton. Didn't even need to use my thrusters after the chutes activated.

As for the surface, where I landed it's really really bumpy, with a fair amount of craters. Judging by the map view, other parts are flatter though. Where I landed was 3785m. It never gets that bright on the surface, because the sun's so far away, and Sentar is visible for a fair portion of the daytime, which lends itself to awesome pictures like this one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And as for science readings...  (from the equator)

Gravity Detector:02.87m/s^2

Barometer:2.9116

Thermometer:-003.22

/science

Really, if all the planets are as beautiful as this one, and as well designed...

Prepare to lose another hundred hours to KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 07, 2013, 09:35:41 pm
modded community game now up! waiting for applicants.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 09:36:34 pm
proper link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.0)

Also, Inaccessible bothers me a bit. At the equator, it spins faster than its escape velocity. That ain't possible :I
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 07, 2013, 09:39:01 pm
That feeling when you design a craft, stick a launcher on the bottom of it, everything goes flawlessly on the first try, you're up above 70km and circularizing and decide. "I'm not sure if this stage is working quite fast enough, I'll go ahead and pop the shrouds off the next stage's radials and let them help out too." And suddenly the shrouds decouple and take the engines with them and you're left with essentially a handsome looking refueling station with backwards plumbing in orbit and your Kerbal won't stop screaming his head off because he's low on both Courage and Stupidity and SOMETHING EXPLODED A FEW DAYS AGO AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS AND I WANT TO GO HOME BUT I'M STUCK UP HERE NOW....

Yeah... that feeling... You know it?

tl;dr: Never mess with the staging mid flight unless you KNOW something bad will happen otherwise. Mild nagging gut feelings are more trouble than they're worth to listen to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 09:41:27 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 09:36:34 pm
proper link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.0)

Also, Inaccessible bothers me a bit. At the equator, it spins faster than its escape velocity. That ain't possible :I

Neither is the entire Kerbol system. I just take it in stride at this point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 08, 2013, 01:26:52 am
Quote from: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 09:36:34 pm
proper link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.0)

Also, Inaccessible bothers me a bit. At the equator, it spins faster than its escape velocity. That ain't possible :I
Sure it is. It would need to have been a metallic-core planet(oid) after a massive collision with something else. All the silica and molten metal would be tossed off with the spin acquired, but the solid core could remain together through the tensile strength of metal. Just like any typical asteroid can spin faster than its escape velocity, as long as the rock it's made of is strong enough.

I doubt the Inaccessable is designed or meant to be anything like that, but that would be a good explanation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 08, 2013, 02:13:40 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on November 08, 2013, 01:26:52 am
Quote from: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 09:36:34 pm
proper link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.0)

Also, Inaccessible bothers me a bit. At the equator, it spins faster than its escape velocity. That ain't possible :I
Sure it is. It would need to have been a metallic-core planet(oid) after a massive collision with something else. All the silica and molten metal would be tossed off with the spin acquired, but the solid core could remain together through the tensile strength of metal. Just like any typical asteroid can spin faster than its escape velocity, as long as the rock it's made of is strong enough.

I doubt the Inaccessable is designed or meant to be anything like that, but that would be a good explanation.

I believe it's designed to be a comet, so that may help explain why it's spinning so fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 02:36:35 am
Ice has only about 17% of the tensile strength of aluminum though... and comets are dusty as hell, so it'd be shedding like crazy if it were spinning that fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2013, 03:04:11 am
Quote from: Glloyd on November 07, 2013, 09:41:27 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 07, 2013, 09:36:34 pm
proper link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.0)

Also, Inaccessible bothers me a bit. At the equator, it spins faster than its escape velocity. That ain't possible :I

Neither is the entire Kerbol system. I just take it in stride at this point.
True. What we need is now also munlit, a jool moon which is a cube.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 08, 2013, 03:38:30 am
So in order to land on Inaccessible you'd have to do a very low fly-by, at the rotational velocity, then burn down to land (!?), and keep burning down to stay landed?

Or just land at the poles I guess?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 03:46:21 am
Yeah, you'll get flung off due to the faster-than-escape-velocity speeds at the surface. You need to land near the pole.

Check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosyzjMxYBU)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 08, 2013, 03:51:54 am
So looks like your best bet for a base is in orbit. Because fuck the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 08, 2013, 07:07:34 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 03:46:21 am
Yeah, you'll get flung off due to the faster-than-escape-velocity speeds at the surface. You need to land near the pole.

Check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosyzjMxYBU)

I was thinking about it being possible to land near the equator if you just had enough friction with the ground.
The rotation is not pushing you upwards, but rather sideways, so with enough landing legs planted it should be possible to stay stuck to the surface.
Then again, it might turn out you'd need millions of legs or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 08, 2013, 07:20:25 pm
Or just use anchors and grapples from KAS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 08, 2013, 07:21:24 pm
KAS has an anchor and grappling hook. Worth testing, just not me. I'm busy making a kethane base on the Mun. Also part clipping and hiding stuff in stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 08, 2013, 08:19:14 pm
Quote from: ank on November 08, 2013, 07:07:34 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 03:46:21 am
Yeah, you'll get flung off due to the faster-than-escape-velocity speeds at the surface. You need to land near the pole.

Check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosyzjMxYBU)

I was thinking about it being possible to land near the equator if you just had enough friction with the ground.
The rotation is not pushing you upwards, but rather sideways, so with enough landing legs planted it should be possible to stay stuck to the surface.
Then again, it might turn out you'd need millions of legs or something.

Let g be the planet's gravitation at your current position, ω be the planet's rotation speed (in radians per time unit), R be the distance from the center of mass to your landing position, α be the global latitude, and β be the local latitude (the angle between the equator and your local surface normal).
To keep staying on the ground without hooks, you need an acceleration of at least ω²Rcos(α) to the axis of rotation. Let's put this in a coordinate system so we can use 2D vectors. The acceleration required is a1 = (-ω²Rcos(α), 0), and the planet's gravity provides a2 = (-gcos(α), -gsin(α)). The difference a1 - a2 = (gcos(α)-ω²Rcos(α), gsin(α)) needs to be covered by surface friction. For this to be possible, we need tan(ß) to be greater than (ω²R/g - 1)cot(α). For α=ß (landing on a horizontal surface), we get tan²(α) > ω²R/g - 1, or cos²(α) < g/ω²R.

In case of Inaccessable, g = 1.18 m/s², ω=0.0143, R = 15000, so you can only stay on horizontal surfaces in latitudes greater than around 52°, although you'll need to go at least above 75° unless you have a buttload of friction to spare.

/physics
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 08, 2013, 08:21:18 pm
It really ought to be rockier than it is, since all the loose dust would get flung off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 08, 2013, 08:25:40 pm
I still need to fiddle with the tech-tree for Kethane and KAS, as well as Quantum Struts... >_>

The other mods I have area already techified (I think? Is Relay Tech tree-ified?) or don't involve parts...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 08, 2013, 08:32:41 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 08, 2013, 08:21:18 pm
It really ought to be rockier than it is, since all the loose dust would get flung off.
In fact, the solid rock near the equator should get flung off too, since it's under about the same stress as a pencil lead lifting an orca whale.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 08, 2013, 10:39:31 pm
Here's something I did for a challenge on the forums: http://imgur.com/a/ZNlbG#1 (http://imgur.com/a/ZNlbG#1).

The challenge was about going through Kerbin's atmosphere at the altitude possible and still getting back into space. My solution was to go out past 2000 gigameters, but in an orbit retrograde to the direction of Kerbin, and then set up an intercept. I got to almost 28500 m/s when I was entering Kerbin's atmosphere, and Jeb had reentry effects showing up from about 65000 meters up.

tl;dr I sent Jeb as a fireball through Kerbin's atmosphere at almost 28500 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 08, 2013, 10:46:09 pm
That's fantastic!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 08, 2013, 10:59:23 pm
I really wish i could get the fool thing to work...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 08, 2013, 11:08:32 pm
TIL: Be VERY careful with the KAS pipes. Apparently they explode randomly. Landed my smeltery craft on Minmus, right next to my ore miner; excellent landing, within pipe range. So, I EVA, go to link the pipe. Grab the pipe on the other ship, run back to the pipe connector on the smelter ship, then hit 'link.' Suddenly, the ore miner explodes in several places, entirely blowing off 2 of the 4 large structural legs (we're talking things capable of landing are rather high speeds, not actual landing legs), and flipping it on its top. Go to grab try again,because why not, and end up blowing off a structural leg on the smeltery ship as soon as I hit link on it (didn't even pick up the green pipe thing that time, it just exploded). After that, finally get a pipe attachment. Of course, it's basically useless, since the mining craft is on its back. Well, here was the end results of trying to salvage that base:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah, that didn't exactly work out as planned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 08, 2013, 11:48:13 pm
I've had KAS do something like that and blackscreen, which apparently has something to do with the lazer mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 09, 2013, 12:31:56 am
Anyway, plopped another craft where those two had been. This time I just sent both mining and smeltery equipment. :P

It's all at an ore deposit of about 650k which is less than 10 km from a kethane deposit (location marked by the flag in the previous image). I'm pretty much going to try putting down a super-massive spacecraft construction depot near the kethane site (it's much more level than the mountainous mines). And since it's all on Minmus, I hardly even have to worry about getting things off the ground. Which means I can make craft as big as my fps lets me. To start out with, I'm planning on a mothership using the fancy near future stuff, which should give it near infinite delta-v.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 09, 2013, 02:39:07 am
What mod adds/uses ore?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 09, 2013, 02:53:48 am
extraplanetary launchpads, was it?

it uses the kethane framework for a lot of stuff so it's like a plugin for a plugin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 09, 2013, 03:28:18 am
Today I did something quite silly: I made a reaction wheel roller:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It just rolls around by pressing the w or s keys, rotated by the other four, and can attain a top speed of 11-12 m/s on kerbin. Not the fastest, but with the I-beams on the rims of the reaction wheels it's actually very tough, and technically it can't wind up flipped over. I managed to find space for all the scientific ameneties besides the materials lab modules, and it has two communotron 16 antennas to transmit data. A bit hard to control, and extended exposure could induce headaches and/or nausea. I only managed to break it by standing it on its' ends and rotating it, which twisted a reaction wheel off either side. Some of the struts might actually be unnecessary, but even with them it only has 61 parts.

I then took it out to Minmus, and had a bit of fun.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, under Minmus' pathetic gravity, the Science Roll can balance itself on the corner of one of the I-beams. Indefinitely, I might add: the four nuclear generators provide enough power to just keep rolling. Forever. Unfortunately the low gravity also means it pretty much just flings itself in the air when it rolls, and it can't go much faster than 6-7 m/s because it doesn't maintain contact with the ground very effectively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2013, 04:22:00 am
Quote from: greatorder on November 08, 2013, 09:08:36 pm
And Kerbin should have collapsed in on itself.

Gads, gais. Eez a gaem!
A giant ravine running along the equator of a planet sounds awesome tough :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 09, 2013, 04:26:40 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 09, 2013, 03:28:18 am
Today I did something quite silly: I made a reaction wheel roller:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It just rolls around by pressing the w or s keys, rotated by the other four, and can attain a top speed of 11-12 m/s on kerbin. Not the fastest, but with the I-beams on the rims of the reaction wheels it's actually very tough, and technically it can't wind up flipped over. I managed to find space for all the scientific ameneties besides the materials lab modules, and it has two communotron 16 antennas to transmit data. A bit hard to control, and extended exposure could induce headaches and/or nausea. I only managed to break it by standing it on its' ends and rotating it, which twisted a reaction wheel off either side. Some of the struts might actually be unnecessary, but even with them it only has 61 parts.

I then took it out to Minmus, and had a bit of fun.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, under Minmus' pathetic gravity, the Science Roll can balance itself on the corner of one of the I-beams. Indefinitely, I might add: the four nuclear generators provide enough power to just keep rolling. Forever. Unfortunately the low gravity also means it pretty much just flings itself in the air when it rolls, and it can't go much faster than 6-7 m/s because it doesn't maintain contact with the ground very effectively.

Does it work on Earth? o_O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 09, 2013, 04:48:05 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 08, 2013, 08:19:14 pm
Quote from: ank on November 08, 2013, 07:07:34 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 03:46:21 am
Yeah, you'll get flung off due to the faster-than-escape-velocity speeds at the surface. You need to land near the pole.

Check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosyzjMxYBU)

I was thinking about it being possible to land near the equator if you just had enough friction with the ground.
The rotation is not pushing you upwards, but rather sideways, so with enough landing legs planted it should be possible to stay stuck to the surface.
Then again, it might turn out you'd need millions of legs or something.

Let g be the planet's gravitation at your current position, ω be the planet's rotation speed (in radians per time unit), R be the distance from the center of mass to your landing position, α be the global latitude, and β be the local latitude (the angle between the equator and your local surface normal).
To keep staying on the ground without hooks, you need an acceleration of at least ω²Rcos(α) to the axis of rotation. Let's put this in a coordinate system so we can use 2D vectors. The acceleration required is a1 = (-ω²Rcos(α), 0), and the planet's gravity provides a2 = (-gcos(α), -gsin(α)). The difference a1 - a2 = (gcos(α)-ω²Rcos(α), gsin(α)) needs to be covered by surface friction. For this to be possible, we need tan(ß) to be greater than (ω²R/g - 1)cot(α). For α=ß (landing on a horizontal surface), we get tan²(α) > ω²R/g - 1, or cos²(α) < g/ω²R.

In case of Inaccessable, g = 1.18 m/s², ω=0.0143, R = 15000, so you can only stay on horizontal surfaces in latitudes greater than around 52°, although you'll need to go at least above 75° unless you have a buttload of friction to spare.

/physics

Man, I'm gonna have to read that ten times to understand it, but I will!

Thanks for the Maths! I've been thinking about how to solve this problem.

You got a "cot(α)" in there, I assume that's a typo, and not some trigonometric function I'm not aware off?


Thinking a bit about it, don't you need at least some friction to stop sliding along the surface? Since no matter what you do, you'll end up with a vector not entirely perpendicular to the plane?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2013, 04:48:25 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 09, 2013, 04:26:40 am
Does it work on Earth? o_O


remotely related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAhQyBLxgu4
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 09, 2013, 05:05:48 am
Quote from: ank on November 09, 2013, 04:48:05 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 08, 2013, 08:19:14 pm
Quote from: ank on November 08, 2013, 07:07:34 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 08, 2013, 03:46:21 am
Yeah, you'll get flung off due to the faster-than-escape-velocity speeds at the surface. You need to land near the pole.

Check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosyzjMxYBU)

I was thinking about it being possible to land near the equator if you just had enough friction with the ground.
The rotation is not pushing you upwards, but rather sideways, so with enough landing legs planted it should be possible to stay stuck to the surface.
Then again, it might turn out you'd need millions of legs or something.

Let g be the planet's gravitation at your current position, ω be the planet's rotation speed (in radians per time unit), R be the distance from the center of mass to your landing position, α be the global latitude, and β be the local latitude (the angle between the equator and your local surface normal).
To keep staying on the ground without hooks, you need an acceleration of at least ω²Rcos(α) to the axis of rotation. Let's put this in a coordinate system so we can use 2D vectors. The acceleration required is a1 = (-ω²Rcos(α), 0), and the planet's gravity provides a2 = (-gcos(α), -gsin(α)). The difference a1 - a2 = (gcos(α)-ω²Rcos(α), gsin(α)) needs to be covered by surface friction. For this to be possible, we need tan(ß) to be greater than (ω²R/g - 1)cot(α). For α=ß (landing on a horizontal surface), we get tan²(α) > ω²R/g - 1, or cos²(α) < g/ω²R.

In case of Inaccessable, g = 1.18 m/s², ω=0.0143, R = 15000, so you can only stay on horizontal surfaces in latitudes greater than around 52°, although you'll need to go at least above 75° unless you have a buttload of friction to spare.

/physics
You got a "cot(α)" in there, I assume that's a typo, and not some trigonometric function I'm not aware off?
It's the cotangent function. cot(x) = 1/tan(x)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alexandertnt on November 09, 2013, 05:16:08 am
I got the planets mod, more planets is always a good thing.

Of course, the first planet I try to land on is "Inaccessable".

Holy crap is that one fast spinning planet. I attempted to land on it and exploded. I am not sure, but I think the planets quick rotation was messing with my everything, e.g. my ship would start randomly rotating (or was it the camera+navball?).

Diddn't even think of trying to land on the poles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 09, 2013, 05:17:12 am
I think calling it a planet is generous...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 09, 2013, 05:21:47 am
Quote
It's the cotangent function. cot(x) = 1/tan(x)

Oh right, thanks for clearing that up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 09, 2013, 05:36:13 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2013, 04:48:25 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 09, 2013, 04:26:40 am
Does it work on Earth? o_O


remotely related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAhQyBLxgu4

Holy shit, they should get that guy to rewrite the ASAS system :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 09, 2013, 07:04:42 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 08, 2013, 08:19:14 pm
Let g be the planet's gravitation at your current position, ω be the planet's rotation speed (in radians per time unit), R be the distance from the center of mass to your landing position, α be the global latitude, and β be the local latitude (the angle between the equator and your local surface normal).
To keep staying on the ground without hooks, you need an acceleration of at least ω²Rcos(α) to the axis of rotation. Let's put this in a coordinate system so we can use 2D vectors. The acceleration required is a1 = (-ω²Rcos(α), 0), and the planet's gravity provides a2 = (-gcos(α), -gsin(α)). The difference a1 - a2 = (gcos(α)-ω²Rcos(α), gsin(α)) needs to be covered by surface friction. For this to be possible, we need tan(ß) to be greater than (ω²R/g - 1)cot(α). For α=ß (landing on a horizontal surface), we get tan²(α) > ω²R/g - 1, or cos²(α) < g/ω²R.

In case of Inaccessable, g = 1.18 m/s², ω=0.0143, R = 15000, so you can only stay on horizontal surfaces in latitudes greater than around 52°, although you'll need to go at least above 75° unless you have a buttload of friction to spare.

/physics
Addendum: Note that if your craft doesn't have reaction wheels, you also need to consider the tipover angle of your craft, since your craft could simply decide to tip over instead of sliding. If γ denotes the tipover angle of your craft (90° meaning that the craft is completely flat on the ground and won't tip over at all, 0° meaning that it's just balancing on one leg), we get tan(ß+γ-90°)>(ω²R/g - 1)cot(α), and if we set γ=45° (a common value) and α=ß, we get α=73°, so if your craft would tip over on a 45° inclined plane, you would definitely need to go above 73° latitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2013, 07:17:23 am
which (unmodded) planed gives the highest science multiplyer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 09, 2013, 07:21:15 am
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on November 09, 2013, 12:24:43 pm
Anyone tryed the KMP (multiplayer) mod ?
I'm really thinking to buy this game but still not sure is it for me.
I like more of coop and multiplayer games rather than playing my self :)

But looks so dang fun :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 09, 2013, 12:25:29 pm
Quote from: Imofexios on November 09, 2013, 12:24:43 pm
Anyone tryed the KMP (multiplayer) mod ?
I'm really thinking to buy this game but still not sure is it for me.
I like more of coop and multiplayer games rather than playing my self :)

But looks so dang fun :)
The mod is still pretty buggy and unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 09, 2013, 12:58:16 pm
I wonder if there is a way to mod the Kerbal Engineering Flowchart into the VAB?
Seems so appropriate!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2013, 01:11:35 pm
Quote from: Imofexios on November 09, 2013, 12:24:43 pm
Anyone tryed the KMP (multiplayer) mod ?
I'm really thinking to buy this game but still not sure is it for me.
I like more of coop and multiplayer games rather than playing my self :)

But looks so dang fun :)

This is probably not the game for you, unless you are willing to play solo and have fun playing solo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 09, 2013, 01:25:49 pm
It is however a great game to have a friend over and play, since the game play is not about pushing buttons at just the right time(like shooters etc).
Rather the game play is about figuring out how to do stuff, and this can be much fun with a friend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 09, 2013, 01:27:04 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 09, 2013, 04:26:40 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 09, 2013, 03:28:18 am
Today I did something quite silly: I made a reaction wheel roller:

Does it work on Earth? o_O

Yeah, I did say I tested it on Kerbin (earth). It performs fairly well there, but won't be going anywhere fast if you don't strap it to a rocket/plane to transport it to the desired location.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 09, 2013, 01:31:03 pm
How stable / efficient is it compared to a traditional rover>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 09, 2013, 01:32:10 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on November 09, 2013, 02:53:48 am
extraplanetary launchpads, was it?

it uses the kethane framework for a lot of stuff so it's like a plugin for a plugin
Yep, this. Though I was really sad to find out that you can only launch from its launchpads on the ground. I was hoping to have an orbital construction station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 09, 2013, 01:42:12 pm
Why is this game so hard ;_;

I almost landed on Mun with only the second level of tech [the first part that branches into the three main ones] but botched my final landing job...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF all my science is now sprawled on the Mun.

I love how KSP actually has gotten incredibly better in the last couple years. I thoroughly enjoy this. Any mod packs out there that aren't game-breaking [i.e. Tech tree integration, and not just a magic booster wankfest with infinite fuel]?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 09, 2013, 01:44:10 pm
KAS and Kethane are wonderful. I also really like MehcJeb but that's because I'm lazy :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 09, 2013, 01:45:28 pm
Today, I landed on Eve with a very simple science station (goo, barometer, thermometer).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have the same on Duna as well:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These gave me a fair bit of science, over 500 each I believe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 09, 2013, 01:48:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?

KSP scientists probably have the book of Murphy's Law on every desk, especially for my launches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 09, 2013, 01:52:10 pm
I seriously need mainsails. I've been struggling to get things into orbit with 256 boosters. When the kraken doesn't strike, though, it's actually surprisingly stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 09, 2013, 02:00:36 pm
Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on November 09, 2013, 01:48:18 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?

KSP scientists probably have the book of Murphy's Law on every desk, especially for my launches.
Huh, I always imagined them with an "Engineering For Dummies" copy nearby.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 09, 2013, 02:02:19 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 09, 2013, 01:31:03 pm
How stable / efficient is it compared to a traditional rover>

Well, I'm really not sure how to calculate that, but for stability it's basically designed to roll over on itself in order to move, so it can't be turtled or otherwise disabled via getting stuck unless you pop it on its ends and rotate it until the reaction wheels come off. It's difficult to get it going in the right direction sometimes, but the number of reaction wheels and low mass let it rotate pretty freely even under normal kerbin gravity so pointing it in a new direction isn't a problem. And as displayed in the picture from Minmus; under low gravity it can balance itself on a point using only the SAS torque. I even managed to do that again 500 meters up one of the nearby mountains, which it does have enough friction to stop on, but has some trouble going up because it prefers to bounce and occasionally bounces backwards.

For efficiency, it's pretty slow and like I said it sometimes wants to roll/bounce back down hillsides especially under low gravity, but it's unlikely to break easily, has all the science equipment onboard besides the science jr. materials bay, and the SAS modules don't drain the batteries so it can effectively run indefinitely. Transmitting data can drain the batteries, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2013, 02:04:08 pm
Quote from: ank on November 09, 2013, 01:25:49 pm
It is however a great game to have a friend over and play, since the game play is not about pushing buttons at just the right time(like shooters etc).
Rather the game play is about figuring out how to do stuff, and this can be much fun with a friend.

Remote viewing like TeamViewer would work well if your friend is not physically near you. You can not only share your screen but also your mouse pointer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 09, 2013, 05:19:47 pm
Got Jeb stranded on Duna when his spaceship disintegrated in the lower atmosphere. Luckily he's right on the equator and surrounded by flat terrain. I could have gone back to an earlier quicksave, but I want to mount a rescue mission.

Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on November 09, 2013, 01:42:12 pm
Any mod packs out there that aren't game-breaking [i.e. Tech tree integration, and not just a magic booster wankfest with infinite fuel]?
I've been enjoying the Near Future Propulsion Pack (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52042-/) and the Kerbal Stock Part eXpansion mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/30472-).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 09, 2013, 05:50:50 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 09, 2013, 01:52:10 pm
I seriously need mainsails. I've been struggling to get things into orbit with 256 boosters. When the kraken doesn't strike, though, it's actually surprisingly stable.
The secret is making exactly the right amount of stages. As a rule of thumb, I found that a single stage should provide just enough thrust to lift thrice its own weight, and any stage should be as heavy as all later stages together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on November 09, 2013, 07:23:01 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?

Still, it's not exactly brain surgery, is it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I)  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 09, 2013, 08:17:10 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on November 09, 2013, 07:23:01 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?

Still, it's not exactly brain surgery, is it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I)  ;D
Brain surgery?  That's easy. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisAintRocketSurgery)

Can't take any pictures because of terrible internet right now, but I've finally got my landing system down.  Instead of trying to land a heavy science modules, often in the dark due to fuel, I seperate it into multiple parts.   The cockpit comes down by itself, to guarantee pilot survival.   The science jr. comes down by itself with several instruments, and the mystery goo comes down by itself with instruments.   Eventually I'm planning on adapting this to my drop pod idea.  Send a central rocket down with three pods, and deploy each one two seconds from each other. with the main body of the rocket acting as a cruise missile once all pods are away.  Because if  you are going to drop something from orbit you might as well use it to rain fire upon those you disagree with.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2013, 11:08:02 pm
Built a Kethane mining crawler for the Mun. It can land from 100km orbit and drill up 8000 kethane. I don't think it can then get back into orbit. Maybe. It had more than half its fuel upon landing but the kethane is going to almost double its weight. It uses four Rockomax 55 radial engines. I made the first landing near one of the big long scars on the Mun. It has KAS parts so it's prepared to sit there and rot wait for something to ferry its load up to the orbiting processor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Half full fuel and completely full kethane specs. Simple and modular. I did have to design it in SPH.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on November 10, 2013, 10:59:59 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on November 09, 2013, 08:17:10 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on November 09, 2013, 07:23:01 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2013, 01:43:30 pm
It's rocket science. You expect it to be easy?

Still, it's not exactly brain surgery, is it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I)  ;D
Brain surgery?  That's easy. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisAintRocketSurgery)
Easier than you think. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIGEAva3RbA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 08:14:22 pm
Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on November 09, 2013, 01:42:12 pm
Any mod packs out there that aren't game-breaking [i.e. Tech tree integration, and not just a magic booster wankfest with infinite fuel]?
I actually haven't found a "magic booster wankfest with infinite fuel" mod. AND I'VE BEEN LOOKING.
Closest thing to that is probably the Interstellar mod.
It has warp drive, which is amazing, but I can't seem to get it into orbit without infinite fuel mainsails :P
Also its crazy hard to get antimatter and such for it.
Scott Manley himself said its Non-OP Warp Drive :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 10, 2013, 08:45:55 pm
Its not THAT hard. Park a ship with 2-3 collectors at 900km orbit from kerbin and timewarp. They'll fill a tank in a little while of waiting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 10, 2013, 09:08:39 pm
Just performed my first orbital rendezvous. Managed it first time with help from a Scott Manley video :D.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 09:25:04 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on November 10, 2013, 08:45:55 pm
Its not THAT hard. Park a ship with 2-3 collectors at 900km orbit from kerbin and timewarp. They'll fill a tank in a little while of waiting.
Well that part is easy, but my latest design, the MEGALODON, is having issues due to:
Quote from: greatorder on November 10, 2013, 08:48:34 pm
And you need exotic matter or its fuel. Which, IIRC, requires a metric fucktonne of power.
Specifically, I have an Antimatter Reactor hooked up with the generator, but I don't have any other form of power generation, so it refuses to make MegaJoules, it just keeps it charged with electricity. AND I didn't give the damn thing docking ports. So its pretty much fucked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 10, 2013, 10:22:08 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 09:25:04 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on November 10, 2013, 08:45:55 pm
Its not THAT hard. Park a ship with 2-3 collectors at 900km orbit from kerbin and timewarp. They'll fill a tank in a little while of waiting.
Well that part is easy, but my latest design, the MEGALODON, is having issues due to:
Quote from: greatorder on November 10, 2013, 08:48:34 pm
And you need exotic matter or its fuel. Which, IIRC, requires a metric fucktonne of power.
Specifically, I have an Antimatter Reactor hooked up with the generator, but I don't have any other form of power generation, so it refuses to make MegaJoules, it just keeps it charged with electricity. AND I didn't give the damn thing docking ports. So its pretty much fucked.

KAS will probably help you there. Just get close enough to tether and attach fuel lines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:43:37 pm
Er....fuel lines?  HOW DOES THAT HELP I DONT UNDERSTANT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 10, 2013, 11:20:41 pm
Send another ship that has what you need on board and connect it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 11:43:54 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 10, 2013, 11:20:41 pm
Send another ship that has what you need on board and connect it.
Ok so suggesting KAS was a great idea and all but couldn't I just put some solar panels in a box and throw those onto the ship instead?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on November 11, 2013, 12:01:24 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:43:37 pm
Er....fuel lines?  HOW DOES THAT HELP I DONT UNDERSTANT.
fuel will travel from the first tank youclick in the editor to the second one you click. so if it were 2 liquid fuel tank with engine connect to them, the first on you clicked on the editor will unload fuel in the second one you clicked, thus making the first one clicked finish its burn with the second one you clicked still full of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 11, 2013, 12:12:06 am
I thought they were talking about the fuel attachments that come with KAS that let you mwwt up with another ship, attach a hose via EVA and transfer resources between ships.

I'm not familiar with the warp drive mod though.  Can KAS transfer what that needs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 12:52:51 am
I'm building a large rocket (600200 odd pieces) and have hit a snag. When getting it into orbit parts vertically stacked are colliding with each other and destroying the rocket. Is there some simple mistake I'm making?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 11, 2013, 01:07:14 am
Too many pieces, the physics engine is having to guesstimate because it can't keep up and that can cause screwy things to happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 01:14:24 am
Hmm, well I'm not so sure. I just removed a Z-4K Battery and now it's working fine. Not sure why that part was proving so weak.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 01:33:27 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on November 11, 2013, 12:01:24 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:43:37 pm
Er....fuel lines?  HOW DOES THAT HELP I DONT UNDERSTANT.
fuel will travel from the first tank youclick in the editor to the second one you click. so if it were 2 liquid fuel tank with engine connect to them, the first on you clicked on the editor will unload fuel in the second one you clicked, thus making the first one clicked finish its burn with the second one you clicked still full of fuel.
I understand what fuel lines are FOR, but what I need is ELECTRICITY generation, because apparently if the reactor/generator combo doesn't have a big supply of "normal" electricity it wont produce MegaJoules, which is a resource used in everything in Interstellar.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 02:56:39 am
Great. I just managed my first trip to Mun and back... and just as I had lifted off from Mun and reached orbit, I realized I had forgoten to do half the experiments I was supposed to do there.

I can't even imagine how Jeb got out of that one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 11, 2013, 03:11:19 am
"Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Company." That's how.

Basically, Jeb supplies a significant fraction of the KSP's components at a tiny fraction of the cost of other providers, on the condition that he get to fly whenever and wherever he wants. You don't fire Jeb. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vicomt on November 11, 2013, 03:22:35 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 11, 2013, 03:11:19 am
"Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Company." That's how.

Basically, Jeb supplies a significant fraction of the KSP's components at a tiny fraction of the cost of other providers, on the condition that he get to fly whenever and wherever he wants. You don't fire Jeb. :P

This is borne out by the way that Jeb forces his way into every damn capsule you launch. single man capsule with another kerbal assigned? no problem, he just pushes him out of the way. Every. Time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 04:40:31 am
Not long landed a joint science and rescue mission on Duna. Heaviest lander yet and first rover. Just need to drive it 12km, get Jeb back, return to orbit, rendezvous + dock with the rocket in orbit, and get back to Kerbin. Fun :D.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 11, 2013, 04:46:06 am
Quote from: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 04:40:31 am
Not long landed a joint science and rescue mission on Duna. Heaviest lander yet and first rover. Just need to drive it 12km, get Jeb back, return to orbit, rendezvous + dock with the rocket in orbit, and get back to Kerbin. Fun :D.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's heavy... I am in the process of doing the same procedure, but I'm betting on not having to use a rover, and made an ultralight lander I hope to get really close to Jeb... I also used aerospikes on mine, since they work better in atmosphere? Haven't tried yet, need to wait a few months on a good alignment...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 11, 2013, 06:16:54 am
Quote from: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 04:40:31 am
Not long landed a joint science and rescue mission on Duna. Heaviest lander yet and first rover. Just need to drive it 12km, get Jeb back, return to orbit, rendezvous + dock with the rocket in orbit, and get back to Kerbin. Fun :D.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is one nice looking lander!

Did they make it home?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 06:34:22 am
@Vattic is that based on one of Scott Manley's designs? He made one that's mighty similar I believe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 07:04:47 am
Quote from: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 02:56:39 am
Great. I just managed my first trip to Mun and back... and just as I had lifted off from Mun and reached orbit, I realized I had forgoten to do half the experiments I was supposed to do there.

I can't even imagine how Jeb got out of that one.

Jeb eventually made up for his mistake by going back, this time with twice the science equipment!

He also boarded a space plane (that i honestly thought was going to explode rather than lift off) and managed to fly over 100 km before landing (which I thought less likely to happen than the plane exploding on surface contact)!

Also, if you people would be so kind as to indulge my question: how exactly do the stars have to be aligned for a flight to Minmus? This assuming I use Mun as a gravity slinshot, preferrably. (I'm running dangerously low on science).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 11, 2013, 07:07:40 am
Quote from: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 07:04:47 am
Also, if you people would be so kind as to indulge my question: how exactly do the stars have to be aligned for a flight to Minmus? This assuming I use Mun as a gravity slinshot, preferrably. (I'm running dangerously low on science).
All angles calculator: http://ksp.olex.biz/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 07:10:21 am
Question: Is it possible to land on the Sun? This is assuming reality warping levels of save editing and such (turning off temperature preferably) of course.
               Or is the game fully hard-coded to splode' everything on contact with it no matter what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2013, 07:13:01 am
No worries about slingshots the same rocket that can go to the mun can make it to minmus - more dv to reach is offset by less to land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 11, 2013, 07:14:09 am
it should be possible to land on the sun, as the only thing stopping you from landing on the sun is absurd heat levels near said sun and your parts overheating due to it. try hyperediting yourself into a 100km orbit with a few parts edited to have 1e+10 max temp and in the name of everything holy never go eva
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2013, 08:26:53 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 01:33:27 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on November 11, 2013, 12:01:24 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:43:37 pm
Er....fuel lines?  HOW DOES THAT HELP I DONT UNDERSTANT.
fuel will travel from the first tank youclick in the editor to the second one you click. so if it were 2 liquid fuel tank with engine connect to them, the first on you clicked on the editor will unload fuel in the second one you clicked, thus making the first one clicked finish its burn with the second one you clicked still full of fuel.
I understand what fuel lines are FOR, but what I need is ELECTRICITY generation, because apparently if the reactor/generator combo doesn't have a big supply of "normal" electricity it wont produce MegaJoules, which is a resource used in everything in Interstellar.
Could you post a picture of your craft? Any of the reactor/generators should generate MW as needed.

Now if you're trying to use a nuclear reactor to power a warp drive ring it can take a looong time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 11, 2013, 09:31:41 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 01:33:27 am
Quote from: jocan2003 on November 11, 2013, 12:01:24 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:43:37 pm
Er....fuel lines?  HOW DOES THAT HELP I DONT UNDERSTANT.
fuel will travel from the first tank youclick in the editor to the second one you click. so if it were 2 liquid fuel tank with engine connect to them, the first on you clicked on the editor will unload fuel in the second one you clicked, thus making the first one clicked finish its burn with the second one you clicked still full of fuel.
I understand what fuel lines are FOR, but what I need is ELECTRICITY generation, because apparently if the reactor/generator combo doesn't have a big supply of "normal" electricity it wont produce MegaJoules, which is a resource used in everything in Interstellar.

As far as ksp is concerned electricity is fuel. It's just a variable in a container. You lack docking ports and kas has parts that do what docking ports do, connect two sets of parts together that are fuel crossfed capable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2013, 12:38:11 pm
18 year single launch grand tour with landings:

http://m.imgur.com/a/19USo

All hats off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on November 11, 2013, 01:19:00 pm
Well, he never needs to play KSP again :O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 11, 2013, 01:27:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2013, 12:38:11 pm
18 year single launch grand tour with landings:

http://m.imgur.com/a/19USo

All hats off.

That is amazing. I doubt I could pull something like that off.

Now he should do it including the mod planets. THAT would be unreal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 11, 2013, 01:32:42 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2013, 12:38:11 pm
18 year single launch grand tour with landings:

http://m.imgur.com/a/19USo

All hats off.

Game = beaten
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 11, 2013, 01:36:08 pm
Quote
fps: 1-2
time to LKO: 7 min
time to LKO (actual): 30 min
Heh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 02:21:55 pm
...I'll just go land on Minmus...
...maybe practice orbital docking as well...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2013, 02:27:28 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 07:10:21 am
Question: Is it possible to land on the Sun? This is assuming reality warping levels of save editing and such (turning off temperature preferably) of course.
               Or is the game fully hard-coded to splode' everything on contact with it no matter what?

http://i.imgur.com/bZ0oWut.jpg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 11, 2013, 02:36:07 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 11, 2013, 02:27:28 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 07:10:21 am
Question: Is it possible to land on the Sun? This is assuming reality warping levels of save editing and such (turning off temperature preferably) of course.
               Or is the game fully hard-coded to splode' everything on contact with it no matter what?

http://i.imgur.com/bZ0oWut.jpg
Goddammit Bill...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 11, 2013, 02:51:10 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 11, 2013, 02:27:28 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 07:10:21 am
Question: Is it possible to land on the Sun? This is assuming reality warping levels of save editing and such (turning off temperature preferably) of course.
               Or is the game fully hard-coded to splode' everything on contact with it no matter what?

http://i.imgur.com/bZ0oWut.jpg

I love how they actually assigned a scientific value to a soil sample from the sun. Unless that's something you did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2013, 02:56:00 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 11, 2013, 02:51:10 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 11, 2013, 02:27:28 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 07:10:21 am
Question: Is it possible to land on the Sun? This is assuming reality warping levels of save editing and such (turning off temperature preferably) of course.
               Or is the game fully hard-coded to splode' everything on contact with it no matter what?

http://i.imgur.com/bZ0oWut.jpg

I love how they actually assigned a scientific value to a soil sample from the sun. Unless that's something you did.
I think thats just the base value for a soil sample and the sun has no multiplier. Most planets have a science multiplier for various types of experiment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 11, 2013, 02:57:04 pm
The way science works, there are default values...

Anyway, that surprises me. I tried to land on Jool for shits and just went through the surface, exploding when I hit about -200 meters despite going 2 m/s with a bunch of parachutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 11, 2013, 02:58:35 pm
the sun was probably not really edited since what... its creation i guess? therefore that's doable. jool was designed with you being unable to land on it in mind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 03:24:31 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 11, 2013, 04:46:06 am
Quote from: Vattic on November 11, 2013, 04:40:31 am
Not long landed a joint science and rescue mission on Duna. Heaviest lander yet and first rover. Just need to drive it 12km, get Jeb back, return to orbit, rendezvous + dock with the rocket in orbit, and get back to Kerbin. Fun :D.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's heavy... I am in the process of doing the same procedure, but I'm betting on not having to use a rover, and made an ultralight lander I hope to get really close to Jeb... I also used aerospikes on mine, since they work better in atmosphere? Haven't tried yet, need to wait a few months on a good alignment...
Best of luck for your mission. I've not tried the aerospikes yet. I mostly took a rover for fun, but it might be essential with the distance. Might try and get a bit closer with the lander.

Quote from: ank on November 11, 2013, 06:16:54 am
That is one nice looking lander!

Did they make it home?
Cheers. I had to go to bed just after I made the post so I won't know until I'm done with work.

Quote from: BFEL on November 11, 2013, 06:34:22 am
@Vattic is that based on one of Scott Manley's designs? He made one that's mighty similar I believe.
It's not knowingly based on any specific design, but I've been watching a lot of his and other's videos and lurking on the KSP forums since the latest version which has greatly influenced my builds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 11, 2013, 03:41:49 pm
Remember mechjeb folks: don't pick a ground target that is breakable when landing. It will land you on top of it!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pick somewhere a few minutes away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 12, 2013, 02:24:50 am
I wasn't aware Mechjeb could actually land effectively.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on November 12, 2013, 03:39:56 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 12, 2013, 02:24:50 am
I wasn't aware Mechjeb could actually land effectively.
If started from a very low eccentricity orbit it can be VERY accurate up to a meter so yeah, act accordingly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 12, 2013, 04:30:49 am
Something's wrong with my mods. Mechjeb is lacking autopilots, KAS and Kethane stuff aren't showing up, only KW rocketry seems to be working...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 04:35:33 am
May be a stupid question but is that a career save?

Mechjeb unlocks gradually now
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 12, 2013, 04:36:38 am
Ah yes it is! I'll look into the R&D stuff, thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 08:44:34 am
So I was thinking of fianlly getting some mods (MechJeb, KAS, FAR and the Kethane Pack come to mind) and I was wondering if a) they're integrated in the career mode (I know MechJeb is, but I'm not sure for the other) and b) do I need to start a new game in career mode after installing them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 12, 2013, 09:41:35 am
I haven't been able to get any of those to work completely, so I'd like to know the same :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 12, 2013, 09:45:31 am
This can't be happening...

I managed to get to Minmus. I went on EVA. But then I flew too high, too greedily.

Jeb came down so hard... There was nothing I could do...

AND THAT ROCKET WAS FULL OF SCIENCE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 09:58:46 am
there are some nice tradeoff involved when using mission controller and remote tech:

mission are way cheaper if you use a satellite instead of a capsule, especially considering the fuel costs which are not returned upon reentry.

but launching satellites means keeping a link to the space center at all time and you don't have the budget to build a full network, so you have to plan beforehand what to leave up there.

so in the mun landing mission I had, because lack of planning, left nothing to relay my signal from the mun - bringing an antenna to the landing incurred the risk of the mun cutting the connection on the final descent.

so I changed the stack so to use the transfer stage as an impromptu relay - I had to wait the exact time to get the sunny side of the mun to also be facing the ksp - antenna requires a lot of power!

so here it is, the lander with a cheapo lightweight antenna using the transfer stage as bridge to the ksp - the craft had to be entirely redesigned to hold two probe core (one in the lander and the other in the relay to keep it active) and the launch vehicle had to factor in for leaving enough fuel in the transfer stage for circularization.

Spoiler: much math later (click to show/hide)

 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 10:05:05 am
How does mission controller interface with the career mode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 10:10:42 am
it doesn't really tie in, you get some additional point from mission and that's that.

I am using it in sandbox, you'd need a more appropriate and balanced mission package for career.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 12, 2013, 10:15:48 am
Quote from: alway on October 22, 2013, 10:07:42 pm
Most efficient way to assign research to parts not set up for it:
1. get Notepad++ (if you are a sane person, you already have it)
2. Find in Files: Filter: *.cfg Directory: <modfolder>/Parts search term: cost
This will give you a list of all parts (and a count), which will open em for you when you doubleclick; nice and quick.

Tech name in the cfg seems to follow a camelcase scheme (Science Tech) -> (scienceTech)

So:
TechRequired = scienceTech

Note: if you do this after your save researched the research pre-req, you will need to go into the tech workshop, click on the tech, then click on each part; it will prompt you if you want to research that part (it's free).

Converted over both Kethan and KAS in under 15 minutes in Notepad++; and that's because I felt like making some of the techs sensible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 10:17:20 am
Would you mind sharing your work? Yup, I know I'm lazy, but I wouldn't know what tech to assign to each part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on November 12, 2013, 10:19:33 am
Quote from: Oliolli on November 12, 2013, 09:45:31 am
This can't be happening...

I managed to get to Minmus. I went on EVA. But then I flew too high, too greedily.

Jeb came down so hard... There was nothing I could do...

AND THAT ROCKET WAS FULL OF SCIENCE!


Noooooooooo! Time to send Bill on a ROCKET-rescue mission! The best part is that you only need a one-way rocket :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 10:21:56 am
Quote from: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 10:17:20 am
Would you mind sharing your work? Yup, I know I'm lazy, but I wouldn't know what tech to assign to each part.

found this with google. open it at your own risk

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sm3jkzfoyhfhk9c/Kethane%2BTechTree.zip

source http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/printthread.php?t=23979&pp=40&page=83
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 11:20:19 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 10:21:56 am
Quote from: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 10:17:20 am
Would you mind sharing your work? Yup, I know I'm lazy, but I wouldn't know what tech to assign to each part.

found this with google. open it at your own risk

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sm3jkzfoyhfhk9c/Kethane%2BTechTree.zip

source http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/printthread.php?t=23979&pp=40&page=83

Pretty sure that one works fine. For KAS use this:
Code: [Select]
@PART[KAS_Container1]
{
    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Container2]
{
    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_ContainerBay1]
{
    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_CPort1]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_CPort2]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_Anchor]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_GrapplingHook]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Hook_Magnet]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_HookSupport]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Pipe1]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Pylon1]
{
    TechRequired = generalConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Strut1]
{
    TechRequired = generalConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Winch1]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Winch2]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Winch3]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}

@PART[KAS_Winch4]
{
    TechRequired = specializedConstruction
    entryCost = 0
}Just make a text file and rename it whatever.cfg
You will need modulemanager (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31342-0-20-ModuleManager-1-3-for-all-your-stock-modding-needs). Don't use the current beta. 1.3 works fine. Just put the cfg in gamedata/kas/


kethane tech tree
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And of course the mechjeb link. http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 12, 2013, 11:55:25 am
Yeeeeees. Thank you!

That's all my mods that weren't techified! :D Now they are and I can GOT TO SPEHS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 12, 2013, 12:08:44 pm
Quote from: greatorder on November 12, 2013, 11:12:06 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on November 12, 2013, 10:19:33 am
Quote from: Oliolli on November 12, 2013, 09:45:31 am
This can't be happening...

I managed to get to Minmus. I went on EVA. But then I flew too high, too greedily.

Jeb came down so hard... There was nothing I could do...

AND THAT ROCKET WAS FULL OF SCIENCE!


Noooooooooo! Time to send Bill on a ROCKET-rescue mission! The best part is that you only need a one-way rocket :D
If Jeb came down hard, him and his science are GONE!

Well he didn't have any science with him at the time. I did send Bill out though, and he returned with around 600 science. By the time he returned Jeb had respawned.

Jeb's original rocket is still there, however. Bill landed about 90 km away from Jeb's landing zone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 12:14:42 pm
Quote from: Descan on November 12, 2013, 11:55:25 am
Yeeeeees. Thank you!

That's all my mods that weren't techified! :D Now they are and I can GOT TO SPEHS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAW2lygZC_4
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 12:17:10 pm
I'll probably sound stupid, but... What do I do with the modulemanager .dll?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 12:20:01 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 12:17:10 pm
I'll probably sound stupid, but... What do I do with the modulemanager .dll?

plugins folder
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 12, 2013, 12:32:01 pm
Apparently you only need one copy. Put it in "GameData", and any mod you have that uses it will be able to configure what it needs to without interfering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 12:36:42 pm
Thank you!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 12:38:47 pm
The plugins folder is generally the place for dll's. Use gamedata if you want to organize via folder structure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 12:48:08 pm
Actually, I realized I already had that .dll from FAR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 12:58:02 pm
Be very careful of multiples of the same thing. Parts especially. The tech tree doesn't like that. Just general advice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 12, 2013, 01:32:49 pm
So wait, I never noticed... Jeb respawns?

Didn't he die on the moon?  What did he do strap space turtles to his shoes to get back?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 01:55:38 pm
Quote from: Greiger on November 12, 2013, 01:32:49 pm
So wait, I never noticed... Jeb respawns?

Didn't he die on the moon?  What did he do strap space turtles to his shoes to get back?

The original three are immortal. Or at least their orange jumpsuits are. It's hard to say.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 12, 2013, 02:49:32 pm
500 pages, yay!

Here's to another 500 with this awesome game!

(http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/taxi-drive-clap.gif)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2013, 02:54:12 pm
I still can't manage to build rockets to get stuff into space efficiently. Guess I'll just throw on more asparagus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 12, 2013, 02:56:19 pm
Have you tried trebuchet-assisted launch?

Basically, build a trebuchet, like so. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgibbMyd2go)

But instead of flinging a dead weight, throw a small rocket and fire it up at the apogee of the projectile's path.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2013, 03:03:30 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 12, 2013, 02:56:19 pm
Have you tried trebuchet-assisted launch?

Basically, build a trebuchet, like so. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgibbMyd2go)

But instead of flinging a dead weight, throw a small rocket and fire it up at the apogee of the projectile's path.
THERE IS NO WAY THIS COULD GO WRONG.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 12, 2013, 03:11:16 pm
Quote from: Greiger on November 12, 2013, 01:32:49 pm
So wait, I never noticed... Jeb respawns?

Didn't he die on the moon?  What did he do strap space turtles to his shoes to get back?

Jeb died on Minmus, leaving behind naught but a small crater. About a week later he got himself splattered all over my spaceplane runway.

Now I'm considering sending him to Minmus... again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 03:13:50 pm
All of my immortals kerbals are in space or on other planets. It's nothing but dead bodies from here on out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 12, 2013, 04:41:57 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiVVcd22Uo4
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 12, 2013, 04:48:25 pm
We need to weaponize this somehow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 12, 2013, 05:04:03 pm
Thanks for those mod tips guys! I actually have stuff now!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 12, 2013, 06:07:23 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 12, 2013, 02:56:19 pm
Have you tried trebuchet-assisted launch?

Basically, build a trebuchet, like so. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgibbMyd2go)

But instead of flinging a dead weight, throw a small rocket and fire it up at the apogee of the projectile's path.
That's not a trebuchet. It needs to have a sling on the end of the arm in order to be a trebuchet. That is just a catapult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet#Basic_design
Quote
The machine utilizes a sling affixed to the end of the throwing arm, acting as a secondary fulcrum, to further multiply the speed of the projectile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 12, 2013, 06:14:32 pm
Well then, build an actual trebuchet to fling a small rocket before firing said rocket. Go on. I dare you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 06:20:23 pm
You only get a few hundreds m of altitude. Wouldn't make much of a difference I say.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 12, 2013, 06:21:51 pm
You're missing the point
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 06:36:56 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 12, 2013, 06:14:32 pm
Well then, build an actual trebuchet to fling a small rocket before firing said rocket. Go on. I dare you.

http://imgur.com/a/AfTxu
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

there is quite a long story about this somewhere. like it has tested, improved, refined, then brought it to minmus
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 12, 2013, 06:57:17 pm
The kerb-bow or a rocket trebuchet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2013, 09:37:19 pm
Finding the center of mass is such a pain. Just rotating the view in VAB or SPH throws the view out of whack with respect to the indicator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on November 12, 2013, 11:09:23 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2013, 06:36:56 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 12, 2013, 06:14:32 pm
Well then, build an actual trebuchet to fling a small rocket before firing said rocket. Go on. I dare you.

http://imgur.com/a/AfTxu
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

there is quite a long story about this somewhere. like it has tested, improved, refined, then brought it to minmus
Thats a balista...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on November 12, 2013, 11:11:35 pm
Everyone that's arguing over the details of medieval siege weaponry in this thread is missing the point and promptly needs to be scheduled for the next available rocket flight out of atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 12, 2013, 11:54:37 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on November 12, 2013, 04:41:57 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiVVcd22Uo4

now counting down time until someone redoes the intake skin and makes a ksp bouncing 2hus video
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 12, 2013, 11:57:54 pm
After many hours of planning, testing, and watching my FPS plummet into the nether, I've finally got a vessel which I'm comfortable sending to Jool to study the planet and its' moons. The transfer burn is 25 minutes long, if you ignore the time added by lag. Whole craft is a bit wiggly with Mechjeb's manuever guidance performing the burns, because the joint connecting the lander and IPD is only a standard-size docking port and mechjeb hates the idea of flying straight.

I really want a personal desktop that can run this game at a speed that doesn't give me a headache. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 12:01:51 am
Have you used the lower res skins for the standard parts? That helps a bit. There's not much difference in visuals, really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on November 13, 2013, 12:53:56 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 12, 2013, 11:57:54 pm
After many hours of planning, testing, and watching my FPS plummet into the nether, I've finally got a vessel which I'm comfortable sending to Jool to study the planet and its' moons. The transfer burn is 25 minutes long, if you ignore the time added by lag. Whole craft is a bit wiggly with Mechjeb's manuever guidance performing the burns, because the joint connecting the lander and IPD is only a standard-size docking port and mechjeb hates the idea of flying straight.

I really want a personal desktop that can run this game at a speed that doesn't give me a headache. :P
Part welder! (http://kerbalspaceport.com/ubioweldingltd/), it's cheaty (as it helps stop wobble too) but it does lower the part count quite a lot!
Oh and on the note of Jool exploration and part counts, in 0.17 (before orange tanks) i did a manned Tylo landing and return on just 74 parts stock :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 13, 2013, 02:22:43 am
Quote from: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 12:01:51 am
Have you used the lower res skins for the standard parts? That helps a bit. There's not much difference in visuals, really.

I changed the game settings to display the textures at 1/8 resolution, if that's what you mean. Are there even lower-resolution textures that can be found somewhere? Or visual models for that matter; I'd guess lowering the polygon counts could help just a wee bit, as long as it doesn't also affect their collision meshes. That could get messy >.>

Quote from: Nao on November 13, 2013, 12:53:56 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 12, 2013, 11:57:54 pm
...
Part welder! (http://kerbalspaceport.com/ubioweldingltd/), it's cheaty (as it helps stop wobble too) but it does lower the part count quite a lot!
Oh and on the note of Jool exploration and part counts, in 0.17 (before orange tanks) i did a manned Tylo landing and return on just 74 parts stock :P

That mod looks like a great option for me, thanks!



I just finished the outward-bound segment of the Jool mission. Did some science around Jool, high above Tylo (I got a silly intercept that actually would have been a head-on collision if the second trip through Jool's atmosphere hadn't slowed the ship down) and around Laythe, where the lander is currently sitting. Sadly, I didn't put any ladders on the lander so Jeb can't get back on board if I take him for a walk :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eclectic Wizard on November 13, 2013, 02:37:58 am
Interplanetary travel completely eludes me, i dont know how to do it at all! I dont know how to build rockets capable of getting enough fuel up there, i cant figure out getting the angles right at all, nothing! All i want is to make a Duna mission, but seriously, it just feels out of my reach!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 13, 2013, 02:38:45 am
Are you doing gravity turns correctly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 13, 2013, 02:42:13 am
to people playing the no transmission challenge or with transmission restrictions, an interesting mod:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55710-0-22-Science-Parts-from-Tarsier-Space-Technology

will become even more interesting post .23 :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 13, 2013, 02:52:24 am
Quote from: Eclectic Wizard on November 13, 2013, 02:37:58 am
Interplanetary travel completely eludes me, i dont know how to do it at all! I dont know how to build rockets capable of getting enough fuel up there, i cant figure out getting the angles right at all, nothing! All i want is to make a Duna mission, but seriously, it just feels out of my reach!
There's a website (I don't have the link) that you put in your altitude and it spits out where the planet you want to go to needs to be, where you need to be, and where in your orbit you need to set your burn manoeuvre.

If you want to work it out yourself, there's also a image rolling around somewhere of locations in your orbit you need to burn at to get to the various planets, but doesn't (AFAIK) tell you where that planet needs to be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on November 13, 2013, 04:46:58 am
Quote from: Eclectic Wizard on November 13, 2013, 02:37:58 am
Interplanetary travel completely eludes me, i dont know how to do it at all! I dont know how to build rockets capable of getting enough fuel up there, i cant figure out getting the angles right at all, nothing! All i want is to make a Duna mission, but seriously, it just feels out of my reach!
It gets easy after several tries!
1) Go here http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/ and input year and day you have in your save, hit plot.
2) Wait until "Departure" time in KSP
3) Get your craft into Kerbin orbit (below 100km), make a maneuver node with dV shown in "Ejection delta-v" (above 1000m/s for Duna)
4) Rotate the node around Kerbin orbit so that the yellow (transfer) line's Pe is as close to Kerbin as possible (optimal burn). It's Ap should cut through Duna orbit at that point.
5) Target Duna and adjust speed on the node until you get encounter (it's important to have exactly equatorial orbit around Kerbin to get it!)
6) F5 and burn away!
7) When you are close to Duna but before Sphere Of Influence change make adjustments to so that you get low enough Duna Periapsis, to retrobrake/aerobrake/lithobrake (14-16km for orbit i think)
8.) ??
9) Prof... SCIENCE!

edit:
Quote from: Descan on November 13, 2013, 02:52:24 am
There's a website (I don't have the link) that you put in your altitude and it spits out where the planet you want to go to needs to be, where you need to be, and where in your orbit you need to set your burn manoeuvre.
You probably mean this site: http://ksp.olex.biz/? it's more limited than the other site i mentioned but it provides good visuals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 13, 2013, 05:02:43 am
I've got a nifty little probe that can flyby duna, and land/return from the mun or minmus. Have yet to get anything to land (much less return) from another planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 05:29:43 am
Lithobraking sound awesome. "What do you mean, I crashed the Mun lander? It was a perfect lithobraking!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 09:45:30 am
Quote from: Eric Blank on November 13, 2013, 02:22:43 am
Quote from: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 12:01:51 am
Have you used the lower res skins for the standard parts? That helps a bit. There's not much difference in visuals, really.

I changed the game settings to display the textures at 1/8 resolution, if that's what you mean. Are there even lower-resolution textures that can be found somewhere?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51361-0-21-Squad-Texture-Reduction-Pack-B9-and-KW-Packs-also
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 10:51:00 am
Quote from: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 05:29:43 am
Lithobraking sound awesome. "What do you mean, I crashed the Mun lander? It was a perfect lithobraking!"
I refer to that as "hardware assisted landing".  No landing struts?  Engines work just fine!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 13, 2013, 11:17:34 am
Not tried it yet, but intakes should make perfect "lithobrakes" - small, light, and ridiculously high impact tolerance.  Just coat the bottom of the lander with them, and voila. Strike the ground at 50 m/s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 13, 2013, 11:50:29 am
Or the ocean? Somebody should totally try that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 11:52:05 am
Trying to play interplanetary career with deathly consequences.  No easy reverts.  But I do revert because goddam Jeb keeps wiggling his way into EVERY capsule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 13, 2013, 11:52:30 am
Just tried it with a couple different configurations.

One where it was just a SRB a reaction wheel and jeb in a capsule with 8 intakes around the bottom of the rocket extending below. It hit the ground at 130 m/s after reaching about 80 km up.  It exploded completely and utterly.

One Srb + capsule + jeb with a number of girders allowing the placement of 16 intakes well underneath the rocket in a somewhat wide base.  The rocket reached about 10km up before coming back down directly on top of the VAB.  The SRB exploded, all the intakes and girders survived, the capsule fell through the open space left by the vaporized SRB and exploded against the VAB, although at a noticeably reduced speed.

There is potential in this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 11:54:58 am
Apparently, if you have a kerbal EVA and hold onto the ladder of the hatch when it crashes, survival rate goes WAY up.  Try combining airhogging lithobrake with ladder survival jumps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 13, 2013, 12:04:45 pm
Greiger, you should totally try landing over water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 13, 2013, 01:54:12 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 11:52:05 am
Trying to play interplanetary career with deathly consequences.  No easy reverts.  But I do revert because goddam Jeb keeps wiggling his way into EVERY capsule.
Get the three Immortals into capsules and walk them off the launchpad and leave them there. That way, they'll be active, and won't be the default choice. Just make sure you don't crash your spent fuel tanks onto them. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 13, 2013, 02:29:54 pm
I sent a manned mission to Ike. It is currently in low orbit, ready to go home.

Wish me luck in getting a refuel pod over there. That Leander's carrying like 800 sciences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 13, 2013, 02:54:35 pm
Restarting career mode with mods, I land on the Mun in my second voyage.

But then...
Spoiler: Possible spoiler? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 13, 2013, 03:10:00 pm
Lucky sod. You found it without looking?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 13, 2013, 03:31:57 pm
Quote from: Descan on November 13, 2013, 01:54:12 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 11:52:05 am
Trying to play interplanetary career with deathly consequences.  No easy reverts.  But I do revert because goddam Jeb keeps wiggling his way into EVERY capsule.
Get the three Immortals into capsules and walk them off the launchpad and leave them there. That way, they'll be active, and won't be the default choice. Just make sure you don't crash your spent fuel tanks onto them. :P

Or go into your save file and delete the three immortals. I believe that takes care of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 03:35:30 pm
I'm working under the assumption that Jeb is just an asshole for getting in the pod.
"Alder Kerbin you are clear for launch."
"Th-Thank you command."
"Are you alright Alder, you sound... funny."
"Y-Yes everything is fine thank you command."
"...Jeb is that you?"
"THIS IS MY ROCKET!"
"Jeb you've been on 17 consecutive missions, you actually need medical care!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 13, 2013, 03:39:15 pm
You can load everything from the VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 13, 2013, 03:44:26 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 13, 2013, 03:10:00 pm
Lucky sod. You found it without looking?
Yep. I spotted a weird shadow while doing my descent but was so low on fuel that I couldn't get closer. The fact that it's on (or near) the equator probably helps with finding it, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 13, 2013, 03:49:08 pm
Only easter egg I know is
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on November 13, 2013, 04:33:06 pm
Quote from: sluissa on November 12, 2013, 11:11:35 pm
Everyone that's arguing over the details of medieval siege weaponry in this thread is missing the point and promptly needs to be scheduled for the next available rocket flight out of atmosphere.
Yes it fainly worked!!! Now put me on the next flight with jeb :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 13, 2013, 04:40:07 pm
Spoiler: jool shenanigans (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 13, 2013, 04:53:39 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 13, 2013, 12:04:45 pm
Greiger, you should totally try landing over water.
Just did.  If the intakes have any weight above them they just immediately crash into the water and are destroyed presumably crushed by the weight.  It seems even A lone single kerbal command pod is too much weight.

However when placed along the side of something they will happily break off and bounce to their hearts content. But landing on water actually seemed less survivable, as the lithobraking rig that showed promise on the ground showed no signs of slowing at all when it hit water.

P.S. I wish I got science for preforming this science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
As any accomplished space-person will remind you, water is the most dangerous force in the system, and it's fortunately not found on many other planets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 13, 2013, 05:17:33 pm
Yes water is definitely the most dangerous force in the system.

Tried applying the intakes to the bottom of a plane, to see if it would be possible to make a gearless landing using intakes.

All attempts to land on flat ground or runways ended in total loss of the vehicle.  All attempts to land in water resulted in almost total loss of the vehicle and some intakes being released into the wild.

There was one attempt at a water landing where the plane actually bounced slightly when it touched the water, but I couldn't get it to happen again, and it's sadly not science if it isn't reproducible.  Not sure it was an actual bounce or it I twitched my joystick slightly expecting contact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 13, 2013, 05:25:07 pm
I think the only way you might get a gearless landing, is to use a reverse thruster to zero out your velocity just a few meters above the ground, but at that point the use or not of intakes doesn't matter - any given structure should survive.

Have you tried adding struts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 13, 2013, 06:10:26 pm
My idea with the intakes was to save mass and fuel on exo-landings. The puny landing legs snap off like twigs if you hit anything going faster than about 9m/s, and the girders are pretty damn heavy. So I was hoping you'd only have to slow down to maybe 30 m/s and then bounce a few times, using SAS to keep the intakes under you.

Or even use the intakes in place of cushions, like so:
(http://www.geoffreylandis.com/geoff+airbags.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 13, 2013, 06:20:00 pm
My munar mega-rover survived impacting the surface at 50 m/s thanks to impacting on its wheels. They're still heavy, I suppose.

The M-1x1 structural panel is lighter-weight than landing legs and girder segments but has the same strength as the girders.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 06:26:31 pm
Actually, is there a mod somewhere with landing cushions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 13, 2013, 06:31:16 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 06:26:31 pm
Actually, is there a mod somewhere with landing cushions?

http://kerbalspaceport.com/cp-airbag-system/

Is this about right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 06:45:26 pm
Awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on November 13, 2013, 07:37:07 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 13, 2013, 06:10:26 pm
My idea with the intakes was to save mass and fuel on exo-landings. The puny landing legs snap off like twigs if you hit anything going faster than about 9m/s, and the girders are pretty damn heavy. So I was hoping you'd only have to slow down to maybe 30 m/s and then bounce a few times, using SAS to keep the intakes under you.
There is a pretty lame way (in stock game) to save even more weight on landing legs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've used it to land a heavy return craft on Eve with 15-20m/s ground impact speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 13, 2013, 07:41:10 pm
But the ram intake weighs even less, and has even more impact tolerance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on November 13, 2013, 07:51:11 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 13, 2013, 07:41:10 pm
But the ram intake weighs even less, and has even more impact tolerance.
Gear is weightless, you can strap a hundreds of them and it will make no difference. And since they are actually designed to hit things at speed they usually survive high speed impacts, or at least the gear goes through the ground slowing the ship a little and not exploding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 08:10:54 pm
I've made a fresh install and added all sorts of things, largely for Mission Controller Extended and RemoteTech. Mission Controller gets turned off when I just want to screw around. One of the missions is high orbit, above 400k. So I made that and noticed I had some fuel in the tank. The next mission was orbit around Mun under 900k. Hey, let's try that. It's a good thing I did because my Kerbin craft cost more than the reward for 400k. I would have also gone and crashed into Minmus, but the Mun mission required a return to Kerbin. I would launch a probe at Minmus but that will take some work getting antennae setup to bounce signals from Kerbin. Or I can lose my 5000 deposit on a Kerbonaut. Or I can hope things are just right to land on the Mun FOREVER but launch a probe before that with directional antennas.

RemoteTech has one big challenge: the Kerbal Command is below the horizon when you circularize a burn to get into orbit. Your first satellites have to be assisted by Kerbals. You might be able to do things by burning straight up... maybe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 13, 2013, 08:35:07 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 08:10:54 pm
RemoteTech has one big challenge: the Kerbal Command is below the horizon when you circularize a burn to get into orbit. Your first satellites have to be assisted by Kerbals. You might be able to do things by burning straight up... maybe.

The trick is to set up mini comm bases at different areas around Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 09:11:43 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 13, 2013, 08:35:07 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 13, 2013, 08:10:54 pm
RemoteTech has one big challenge: the Kerbal Command is below the horizon when you circularize a burn to get into orbit. Your first satellites have to be assisted by Kerbals. You might be able to do things by burning straight up... maybe.

The trick is to set up mini comm bases at different areas around Kerbin.

I'm going to try an assist with a Kerbal. Once one is set up then the others will be easy without an assist. I don't have docking clamps yet, or better dishes, so they will have to be replaced. I am barely in the 300 cost techs.

Mission Controller is NOT built for RemoteTech at all. The rewards are far too low in almost every situation. Turning off Mission for some infrastructure is quite legit.

One of my fav part mods got some nice additions. Bavarian Tubes (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52139-WIP-Bavarian-Aerospace-Tubes!-%28update11-13-13%29)  Demo reel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5d5Xs_9-mg)   I do want to make a couple manned antenna complexes using this.


Welp. That's my Kerbsat array done. One of them even has a backup due to mistakes made. Had to EVA to get the first satellite operational after getting two up and connected to Kerbal Command. Ended up getting a fourth in orbit near the first. Used omni's to get them to talk to each other. Extra antenna's between them if need be. I wasn't originally sure I could EVA to fix things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 14, 2013, 01:32:26 am
Quote from: Nao on November 13, 2013, 07:37:07 pm
There is a pretty lame way (in stock game) to save even more weight on landing legs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've used it to land a heavy return craft on Eve with 15-20m/s ground impact speed.
Um, you sure? They're like half a ton each.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 14, 2013, 02:12:02 am
If you climb faster you can place the apoapsis where the space center is still in range.
Try burning a little less horizontally.
You will need an antenna active for all the climb. And power for it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 14, 2013, 02:31:26 am
Alright, testing a small craft at the launchpad, six intakes mounted on a bottom docking port can take the impact very well, with only the fuel tanks exploding (of course). Hit the ground at 50 m/s. Have yet to test on the actual Mun, or with much sideways velocity, but I suspect this will only work going almost straight down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on November 14, 2013, 04:14:27 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on November 14, 2013, 01:32:26 am
Quote from: Nao on November 13, 2013, 07:37:07 pm
There is a pretty lame way (in stock game) to save even more weight on landing legs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've used it to land a heavy return craft on Eve with 15-20m/s ground impact speed.
Um, you sure? They're like half a ton each.
In hangar or VAB yes, but their mass is 0 in flight, as is the mass of some more parts like struts, cubic struts fuel lines etc.
Thats why it's important to place landing gear last when designing a plane, as the center of mass shown in SPH with gear on will be different in flight and may cause problems.

a small example showcasing extreme infiniglide
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
12 small control sufraces and 8000m/s almost at sea level :P It wouldn't be possible if the had any mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 04:33:23 am
Trebuchets? So old-fashioned. We use cannons nowadays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:03:13 am
Alright, tried testing on the Mun, but got distracted by trying something absolutely insane:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/2304x1728q50/109/i41v.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:51:47 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:03:13 am
Alright, tried testing on the Mun, but got distracted by trying something absolutely insane:
Trying to intake air on the Mun? Otherwise I don't see it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 14, 2013, 06:01:03 am
Quote from: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:51:47 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:03:13 am
Alright, tried testing on the Mun, but got distracted by trying something absolutely insane:
Trying to intake air on the Mun? Otherwise I don't see it...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 11:22:30 am
KerbSat network. One has already drifted over the horizon. It's all going to be replaced as I gain science and parts, so no biggie.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ultimately I would like 6 in orbit so any one can be directed at Kerbal Command as they slide around. 3 antenna's minimum just for network and ground communication. 1-2 dishes for bouncing out.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 11:40:11 am
Why not set a kerbosynchronous orbit?  The wiki has details on what altitude/velocity achieves a perfectly stable orbit.  Plant that above KSP and enjoy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 11:51:20 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 11:40:11 am
Why not set a kerbosynchronous orbit?  The wiki has details on what altitude/velocity achieves a perfectly stable orbit.  Plant that above KSP and enjoy!

They are kerbosynchronous. It has to be perfect or they will slip and my insertion vehicle did not have much in the way of fine tuning. The force of a decoupler can throw things off. I'm going for redundancy because it's necessary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 14, 2013, 11:59:32 am
I just sent a refuelling vessel to Ike and refueled the ship, thus returning from my first manned mission from that far away.

Also, my good Spaceplane Pilot is done for. I attempted a no-engine landing with a spaceplane, not thinking about how fast it would be going because of the thin atmosphere. I was forced to pull the emergency chutes, tearing off the entire back of the plane, which flew away and was destroyed, leaving only a cockpit and battery bank hanging there.

Luckily, the battery lasted just long enough to transmit some good sciences. I'll miss you, Chadory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 12:06:41 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on November 14, 2013, 11:59:32 am
Luckily, the battery lasted just long enough to transmit some good sciences. I'll miss you, Chadory.
Any landing you can walk away from is a success.
Any flight that transmits science back is a success.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:17:37 pm
Yeah, managed my first round trip to another world! Since the Mun is obviously cursed, it was done on Minmus. The sweet, sweet science let me buy the Kethane detector, and I now have one satellite orbiting Kerbin and another around the Mun. Now, I have one question: do the satellite only detect when it's the active ship?

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3961/m8ll.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 12:26:02 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:17:37 pm
Now, I have one question: do the satellite only detect when it's the active ship?

Yes. Active ships are happy ships. Inactive ships are slackers. It's not just physics that turn off when you get a certain distance away from craft you are not "in".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:27:06 pm
Oh well, I'll let them orbit for a while in the background then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 12:31:34 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:27:06 pm
Oh well, I'll let them orbit for a while in the background then.

You can speed up time to 50x or 100x on Kerbin or the Mun. Minmus you may have to go faster as your orbit is so damn slow. Anything faster and your scanner will skip hexes. You only need to find pockets anyway as each hex is not its own reservoir, the whole patch is the reservoir.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:41:06 pm
Can you drill for Kethane on an hexe you haven't surveyed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 12:41:50 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:41:06 pm
Can you drill for Kethane on an hexe you haven't surveyed?
Blindly, sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:44:33 pm
And I take it you need to be around for your rig to drill...

Well, I found a neat patch of Kethane (480k) at the Mun Equator. As soon as I've got the refiner part, I'm gonna send a semi-permanent colony to survey all of the Moon's biomes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 12:46:52 pm
Jeb? Why did you sneak onto this mission? It's a one way mission...probably.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 14, 2013, 12:51:24 pm
He's Jeb. Resistance is futile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 01:00:01 pm
This is basically how I got all my immortals off-planet. They sneak onto a permanent installation in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 01:05:28 pm
Anyone know of a good way or mod for 4-way probe adapters?  Basically, there's already the 3m->1m quad adapter, but I'd like a 1m->.5m quad adapter, so I can more easily put things like ion drives onto vessels...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 14, 2013, 01:11:42 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 12:17:37 pm
Yeah, managed my first round trip to another world! Since the Mun is obviously cursed, it was done on Minmus. The sweet, sweet science let me buy the Kethane detector, and I now have one satellite orbiting Kerbin and another around the Mun. Now, I have one question: do the satellite only detect when it's the active ship?
[snip image]

another dramatic back light shot.
yep. can't see a thing in this one, like in the others.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 01:17:46 pm
I got Jeb home on a little more than just fumes. I fail at KSP. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 14, 2013, 01:27:11 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:51:47 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:03:13 am
Alright, tried testing on the Mun, but got distracted by trying something absolutely insane:
Trying to intake air on the Mun? Otherwise I don't see it...

Trying to use radial intakes as lithobrakes. On Kerbin they're good for at least 50 m/s impacts, in the right configuration. But I got distracted by doing an extremely low orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 01:27:11 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 01:17:46 pm
I got Jeb home on a little more than just fumes. I fail at KSP. :(
Sounds like you're doing very well.  If you return with no fuel, then you've made a perfectly balanced flight!  If you've got spare fuel, then you're pushing around more weight than you need to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 14, 2013, 01:28:28 pm
I prefer to think of having extra fuel as "room for fuckups".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 14, 2013, 01:30:02 pm
I prefer to think of extra fuel as 'still not enough' because I usually end up spending it all making mistakes then trying to fix those mistakes and failing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 01:44:02 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 01:27:11 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 01:17:46 pm
I got Jeb home on a little more than just fumes. I fail at KSP. :(
Sounds like you're doing very well.  If you return with no fuel, then you've made a perfectly balanced flight!  If you've got spare fuel, then you're pushing around more weight than you need to.

Jeb was not supposed to come home at all. My lander was a 5 engine deal, with one central and 4 side. The side ones, with small tanks and landing legs, were on radial decouplers so I could shift fuel to the central column and leave the dead weight behind. I wasn't sure I had fuel for Jeb but I did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 14, 2013, 03:15:27 pm
Was making a second attempt at a Duna or Bust mission.   It ended up with bust when I figured it would be a really bright idea to manually decouple spent fuel tanks while the engines were on.  Naturally the ship went unto a tumble when the center of mass suddenly shifted, smacking the main engines into the spent fuel tank blowing them both up and scattering debris like confetti half way through the kerbin escape burn.

Fortunately the lander was unharmed, so I just decoupled that from the smouldering remains of the transfer engines and used the lander's engine to cancel escape velocity and get back to kerbin.  I thought it was a disaster averted.

Then I figured, "Huh I still have half a tank of fuel left, I might as well adjust my trajectory so I land near the Space Center."

So I did the stupidest thing ever.  I brought my orbital speed close to 0 over the space center and let her drop.  I came in waaaaayyyyy too fast and too steep, I was still hurtling straight towards the ground at mach 1.5 at 2000 meters up.  Pulled the chute in desperation but it was just ripped off, and Seegan "landed" at the space center at roughly mach 0.9. 

I'm sure the impact buried him for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 03:23:23 pm
Protip: Deploy chutes as early as possible, it's usually enough to slow nearly any vessel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2013, 03:26:27 pm
Why didn't you open the chute as soon as you were in the atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on November 14, 2013, 03:35:06 pm
I was using the remaining fuel to fine tune my landing spot, not so much slowing me down but just pointing me closer towards the Space Center.  I detached that somewhere around 20000 meters.

I still should have popped the chute immediately then, but I figured air drag would be enough to slow me like it always has in the past.  And less time waiting for the pod to touch the ground the better.  But in the past I guess I was always coming in at an shallow enough angle to not be breaking the sound barrier near sea level.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 14, 2013, 04:57:21 pm
trying to do experiments on top of a far mountain. hardest than it sounds.

here is a new test crawler. on the right, remnants of my previous attempts.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on November 14, 2013, 04:59:49 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 14, 2013, 01:05:28 pm
Anyone know of a good way or mod for 4-way probe adapters?  Basically, there's already the 3m->1m quad adapter, but I'd like a 1m->.5m quad adapter, so I can more easily put things like ion drives onto vessels...

Shiny thing:
Code: (adapterSmallMiniQuad.cfg) [Select]
PART {

name = adapterSmallMiniQuad
module = Part
author = Squad, Andux

MODEL
{
   model = Squad/Parts/Structural/adapterLargeSmallQuad/model
   position = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
   scale = 0.5, 0.5, 0.5
   rotation = 0, 0, 0
}

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
node_stack_bottom01 = 0.3125, -0.375, 0.3125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom02 = 0.3125, -0.375, -0.3125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom03 = -0.3125, -0.375, 0.3125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom04 = -0.3125, -0.375, -0.3125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

rescaleFactor = 1.0

TechRequired = metaMaterials
entryCost = 7000
cost = 800
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = TVR-400S Stack Quad-Adapter
manufacturer = O.M.B. Demolition Enterprises
description = After realizing 'larger circles' wasn't a very patentable concept, O.M.B. Enterprises rolled out a new line of ingenious multi-connector adapters to fit Rockomax sized parts. Lawsuit still pending. Converts a single 1.25m stack into four 0.625m stacks.

allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,1,0,0
stackSymmetry = 3

mass = 0.03
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.3
minimum_drag = 0.3
angularDrag = 3
crashTolerance = 12
maxTemp = 3400

fuelCrossFeed = True
NoCrossFeedNodeKey = bottom

}
It reuses the assets from the stock 2.5m -> 4x1.25m adapter, so just drop it in a .cfg somewhere under GameData and it should work.

Also, tri-coupler:
Code: (adapterSmallMiniTri.cfg) [Select]
PART {

name = adapterSmallMiniTri
module = Part
author = Squad, Andux

MODEL
{
   model = Squad/Parts/Structural/adapterLargeSmallTri/model
   position = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
   scale = 0.5, 0.5, 0.5
   rotation = 0, 0, 0
}

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
node_stack_bottom01 = 0.0, -0.375, 0.3625, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom02 = 0.3125, -0.375, -0.18125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_bottom03 = -0.3125, -0.375, -0.18125, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

rescaleFactor = 1.0

TechRequired = metaMaterials
entryCost = 6400
cost = 600
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = TVR-300S Stack Tri-Adapter
manufacturer = O.M.B. Demolition Enterprises
description = After realizing 'larger circles' wasn't a very patentable concept, O.M.B. Enterprises rolled out a new line of ingenious multi-connector adapters to fit Rockomax sized parts. Lawsuit still pending. Converts a single 1.25m stack into three 0.625m stacks.

allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,1,0,0
stackSymmetry = 2

mass = 0.02
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.25
minimum_drag = 0.25
angularDrag = 2.5
crashTolerance = 12
maxTemp = 3400
fuelCrossFeed = True
NoCrossFeedNodeKey = bottom

}
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:27:21 pm
So, after visiting Minmus, I decided I had enough fuel left to pay that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
a visit. Went better than expected.

My report on Imgur. Easteregg Spoilers Ahead. (http://imgur.com/a/5AYQ6)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 14, 2013, 05:30:22 pm
Anomalies dont give extra guff yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:33:03 pm
Anyone know of a script to, say, add 700000 to the height of every part in a craft file?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 14, 2013, 05:36:27 pm
I think you just need to change one thing...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 14, 2013, 05:37:14 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:27:21 pm
So, after visiting Minmus, I decided I had enough fuel left to pay that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
a visit. Went better than expected.

My report on Imgur. Easteregg Spoilers Ahead. (http://imgur.com/a/5AYQ6)
The gods have spoken, you are the chosen one. Prepare to enter the Katrix.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on November 14, 2013, 05:46:54 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:33:03 pm
Anyone know of a script to, say, add 700000 to the height of every part in a craft file?
I don't think there's a script, but you could make a simple craft and do it manually. There ARE save editor mods that let you just move around a finished craft though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 05:50:38 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:33:03 pm
Anyone know of a script to, say, add 700000 to the height of every part in a craft file?

What, like hyperedit? http://www.kerbaltekaerospace.com/?page=downloads

This is a much better satellite setup.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on November 14, 2013, 09:12:07 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 14, 2013, 05:50:38 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 14, 2013, 05:33:03 pm
Anyone know of a script to, say, add 700000 to the height of every part in a craft file?

What, like hyperedit? http://www.kerbaltekaerospace.com/?page=downloads

This is a much better satellite setup.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Next challenge: Create pentagram in order to unleash demons on kerbin in massive rift of the veil.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 14, 2013, 09:43:23 pm
Anyone else tried the solar sails mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 14, 2013, 10:07:49 pm
Finally found time to finish my Duna rescue mission. It went without a hitch. Gallery of the return mission (http://imgur.com/a/gdBym).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 15, 2013, 02:31:09 am
Quote from: Vattic on November 14, 2013, 10:07:49 pm
Finally found time to finish my Duna rescue mission. It went without a hitch. Gallery of the return mission (http://imgur.com/a/gdBym).
You're a better man than me. I underestimated Duna's gravity twice, and ended up having to save two... :(

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 14, 2013, 05:37:14 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:27:21 pm
My report on Imgur. Easteregg Spoilers Ahead. (http://imgur.com/a/5AYQ6)
The gods have spoken, you are the chosen one. Prepare to enter the Katrix.
I don't know what I expected, but some kind of extra stuff/science/congratulations dialog would've been cool...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 02:40:07 am
Solar sails: infinite fuel, but painfully slow and inefficient when you use them to reach Jool. Ugh, I probably should have brought a chemical rocket along with this panelly monstrosity. Still, never made it to Jool before, so infinite propulsion still has it's perks even with 10 minute burns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 15, 2013, 12:29:19 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 15, 2013, 02:31:09 am
Quote from: Vattic on November 14, 2013, 10:07:49 pm
Finally found time to finish my Duna rescue mission. It went without a hitch. Gallery of the return mission (http://imgur.com/a/gdBym).
You're a better man than me. I underestimated Duna's gravity twice, and ended up having to save two... :(

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 14, 2013, 05:37:14 pm
Quote from: Siquo on November 14, 2013, 05:27:21 pm
My report on Imgur. Easteregg Spoilers Ahead. (http://imgur.com/a/5AYQ6)
The gods have spoken, you are the chosen one. Prepare to enter the Katrix.
I don't know what I expected, but some kind of extra stuff/science/congratulations dialog would've been cool...

I found that arch on a mission to the Mun as well. Need to keep an eye out for more eastereggs.

Maybe I'll go orbit Ike and fly into that Magic Boulder thing.

Remember: don't taunt the magic boulder!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Canisaur on November 15, 2013, 12:53:00 pm
For fun I went back and read the first posts from back in 2011.  A lot of the images don't work any more, sadly.

Quote from: Alehkhs on July 10, 2011, 10:33:54 pm
My biggest hope in this game is that some day we can do moon landings, then blast off again and rendezvous with the orbiting command module before returning home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2013, 01:20:00 pm
Can you hear me now?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I haven't even gotten orange tanks yet, but my comms range is ready for anything all the way out to Duna. I may put in a 12 million meter polar orbiter with the biggest antenna there is, but I am definitely installing a sun orbiter for comms extension. The outer satellite is just beyond the Mun and can only be blocked for a short time by Kerbin or the Mun as it has an off center orbit counter to Minmus. This means the Mun is now covered from all sides as well, at least some of the time. All the kerbosynchronous satellites need thermoelectric as backups, so that will have to be a manned mission. KAS lets you add power generating parts with Kerbal assistance, which is one of the greatest things it does.

It's time to get some more science from other planets. Kerbin is mostly dry and I don't even have the mainsail. 400 more and I can get the tiny strut, which is a must at this stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 01:22:31 pm
Is the communication range a mod thing? Or does it only come into play in career mode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2013, 01:25:56 pm
mod, forgot exactly what it was called
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 01:43:11 pm
Here's what I used to stick 36 Kerbals around Jool.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is there a way I can transfer to Eeloo? Or will I need to go back to solar orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2013, 01:51:16 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 01:22:31 pm
Is the communication range a mod thing? Or does it only come into play in career mode?

RemoteTech 2. All vessels without Kerbals have to be connected back to mission control somehow. If they are not they are dead ships, incapable of doing anything without Kerbal assistance. Kerbals can force communication parts to activate.

Oops. I left the big relay satellite too close to the Mun. It's being grabbed and eventually flung out to solar orbit within the year.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 15, 2013, 02:44:22 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 15, 2013, 01:51:16 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 01:22:31 pm
Is the communication range a mod thing? Or does it only come into play in career mode?

RemoteTech 2. All vessels without Kerbals have to be connected back to mission control somehow. If they are not they are dead ships, incapable of doing anything without Kerbal assistance. Kerbals can force communication parts to activate.

Oops. I left the big relay satellite too close to the Mun. It's being grabbed and eventually flung out to solar orbit within the year.

now version 1.2.0 has a computer you can program when it is in contact of KSC and execute commands when disconnected

and controls are executed with a delay relative to the distance from home.

awesomesauce.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 15, 2013, 02:50:29 pm
Why would the controls be executed with that delay? That doesn't make any sense, the computer could just figure out and compensate for that delay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 15, 2013, 02:56:30 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 15, 2013, 02:50:29 pm
Why would the controls be executed with that delay? That doesn't make any sense, the computer could just figure out and compensate for that delay.
I assume manual controls are delayed, and scripted commands are normal.  Those statements aren't directly connected to each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on November 15, 2013, 03:10:15 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on November 15, 2013, 02:50:29 pm
Why would the controls be executed with that delay? That doesn't make any sense, the computer could just figure out and compensate for that delay.
It's delayed because light can't travel faster than the speed of light.  Same with radio and other ways you would control something remotely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 03:17:57 pm
But once a computer recieves a program to execute, it HAS the program, it doesn't need to keep receiving it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 15, 2013, 03:20:19 pm
only probe are effected by delay

if you set command to the computer, command aren't uploaded until the delay has passed.

then they happen at the right time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on November 15, 2013, 03:20:40 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 03:17:57 pm
But once a computer recieves a program to execute, it HAS the program, it doesn't need to keep receiving it.
Well yeah, of course.  It just has to receive it at the speed of light, which can take minutes.

You also can set delays in the program, so that it will initiate when you need it to.  At least that's how it did it back in version 1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 15, 2013, 03:34:57 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 15, 2013, 03:20:19 pm
only probe are effected by delay

if you set command to the computer, command aren't uploaded until the delay has passed.

then they happen at the right time.
Do these occur while a ship is not in physics and loaded and stuff?  Like, can I command my fuel hauler to go into orbit around Jool, and then spend my attention getting my kerbals through a different orbit to Jool?  So, when they arrive, the fuel tank will be there to assist...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 15, 2013, 03:36:45 pm
no. I think there is a mod that doesn't unload the ship, it is called lazors or something but I couldn't figure it out for the life of me.

(same problem with the autopilot mod - kos: ships unload and then game over)



please also note that remote tech + ferram = fail, for whatever the reason
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 03:37:28 pm
Oh crap. My ship is on a collision course with Laythe, and it's coming in on the night side, so my solar sails are useless.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is there any way I might spare some of these poor Kerbals?

EDIT: Nope, the entire staff was wiped out in a single mission:

Spoiler: The results (click to show/hide)

At least Jeb was happy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 15, 2013, 03:43:15 pm
No.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 15, 2013, 03:45:44 pm
I guess you could hope to aerobrake in time. Also that appears to be exactly the correct direction to be burning in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 05:31:22 pm
It wasn't a matter of Aerobraking, I needed to go faster, since my path was tangent to the surface. As per my edit of the last post, though, it seems I did not have enough fuel. My orbit was almost 180 degrees to Laythe's, so I plowed into it at 67 km/s.

'Twas a sad day in Kerbal history, nearly 40 wiped out in an instant.

Anyone else have a bigger (accidental) death toll?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 15, 2013, 05:40:55 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 05:31:22 pm
It wasn't a matter of Aerobraking, I needed to go faster, since my path was tangent to the surface. As per my edit of the last post, though, it seems I did not have enough fuel. My orbit was almost 180 degrees to Laythe's, so I plowed into it at 67 km/s.

'Twas a sad day in Kerbal history, nearly 40 wiped out in an instant.

Anyone else have a bigger (accidental) death toll?

That's the most I've ever heard of. The most I've lost was 11, when I accidentally de-orbited a space station by messing up with pressing buttons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 15, 2013, 07:47:34 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 05:31:22 pm
'Twas a sad day in Kerbal history, nearly 40 wiped out in an instant.

a bit OT, but reminds me of this:  http://watergate.info/1969/07/20/an-undelivered-nixon-speech.html

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 08:08:12 pm
Perhaps:

"Fate has ordained that the Kerbals who went to Jool to explore in peace will stay in Laythe's mantle to rest in pieces."

I'm not sure of the math, but a 68 ton ship impacting at 67 kilometers per second probably makes a fairly big boom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 15, 2013, 08:23:23 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 08:08:12 pm
I'm not sure of the math, but a 68 ton ship impacting at 67 kilometers per second probably makes a fairly big boom.

http://www.purdue.edu/impactearth/

And this one isnt are pretty, but does offer other targets besides earth:  http://janus.astro.umd.edu/astro/impact/

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 15, 2013, 08:45:14 pm
I dont either, but I know who does:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=volume+of+68+tons+of+iron

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=radius+of+a+7830+Liter+sphere

about a 4 foot radius ball of iron.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 15, 2013, 09:53:54 pm
Impact for mercury, the smallest body for which the program has results, releases the equivalent energy of 2KT of TNT. With Laythe's atmosphere probably ablating the fuck out of the craft, I'd say my poor Kerbonauts still would have gone out with a considerable bang.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 15, 2013, 11:15:26 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 15, 2013, 01:43:11 pm
Here's what I used to stick 36 Kerbals around Jool.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Awesome colony ship, It's a shame about the accident :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 15, 2013, 11:21:02 pm
so for anyone following this thread and just playing the demo, the game is 40% off on steam for the weekend.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/

I was just fooling about with the demo and mods for the longest time, finally took the plunge and bought in sometime around last xmas.  TOTALLY WORTH IT.  the new mods are amazing, the research and astronaut management systems are a blast.  I only hire the stupid ones.  I have to say, it's much more fun only having access to very limited parts and having to really work for access to more parts.

I dread when they implement a budget, but I'm sure that will be even more fun when they do.  Takes me back to playing this thing:  http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/games/details.php%3FID%3D2002

Or, you know, it would take me back to that if they implemented the budget and projects and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2013, 11:21:32 pm
Polar Mother, why aren't you where I need you? You need to be watching over the north pole when I land a drone base. It can't do it without you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on November 16, 2013, 03:52:05 am
Anyone feel like doing some multiplayer project on some of these servers :)
http://kerbal.wlsing.nl/ (http://kerbal.wlsing.nl/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2013, 04:33:12 am
sure I'd love to run a refueling station at some convenient place (eve, or laythe)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 16, 2013, 06:06:11 am
Plan to build robust communication network:

3-4 satellites at keosynchronous orbit, with roughly equal arc spacing.
Each satellite needs an inclination of 0º or close to it.

Each satellite must be able to connect to two other satellites.
Each satellite needs to be able to connect to mission control due to errors in orbit altitude and eccentricity.
Each satellite needs to be able to connect to at least one spacecraft in Kerbin SOI.

Interplanetary communication is optional and may be handled with a separate system or expansions.
Each satellite needs at least one docking port for expansions.

Each satellite needs enough electric charge to power all of its antennae for at least 20 minutes and 20 seconds for when it's in Kerbin's umbra and penumbra.
Each satellite needs enough electric generators of some type to power the antennae for the remainder of the orbit.

Each satellite needs at least some RCS fuel for orbit corrections.

Problems:
I'm on a new career so I don't have the best parts yet for the job. Time to make compromises and large satellites! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2013, 08:52:41 am
I always do 6 comsats at a 55º inclination, 1588km orbit and 1 hour launch interval. That ensures that at least 2 sats are always visible from any point on kerbin and gives good basic coverage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2013, 08:53:45 am
I found useful to reuse transfer stages as satellites until better things come along - you'll want to rework your network anyway once the 5M omni antenna comes along
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 10:20:16 am
Thermoelectrics are at the end of a research branch. KAS can help retrofit those in. It won't help with most antennas unless you mod the mod. I suggest manned missions until you exhaust Kerbin and its moons of science. Work on getting the antennas and research equipment plus fuel lines.

Some stock KAS code. Shouldn't be too hard to add more parts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Simple manned lifter for kerbosynchronous and return the Kerbal. It can be toned down depending on your tech. The satellite body is the empty fuselage. Originally it had 16 tiny solar plates.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4 dishes for talking to other kerbosync, Kerbal Command, plus a spare for any active craft or a polar orbiter. Big dish for talking to an outer satellite that can talk to the rest of the solar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 16, 2013, 12:13:04 pm
Often when using a maneuver node to plan a mid-course correction burn on the way to another planet the predicted path is all jittery. It makes planning for aerobraking almost impossible as the predicted altitude jumps up and down. Does anyone know the cause of this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2013, 12:20:54 pm
does it happen when the asas is off?

try this: asas off, timewarp 2x, off to normal physics. (it will kill any rotation left)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 16, 2013, 12:36:12 pm
I'll definitely try it next time it comes up. Cheers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Oliolli on November 16, 2013, 01:29:12 pm
Quote from: puke on November 15, 2013, 08:45:14 pm
I dont either, but I know who does:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=volume+of+68+tons+of+iron

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=radius+of+a+7830+Liter+sphere

about a 4 foot radius ball of iron.

Except those are in short tons, and I'm pretty sure KSP uses metric.

The radius of the ball would actually be 4,1 cm larger. That's a 6 metric ton difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 16, 2013, 01:33:07 pm
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=volume+of+68+metric+tons+of+iron

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=radius+of+a+8640+Liter+sphere

There, fixed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 01:35:09 pm
Except of course it's not a full sphere or iron. It'd probably destroy itself during re-entry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on November 16, 2013, 01:53:35 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 01:35:09 pm
Except of course it's not a full sphere or iron. It'd probably destroy itself during re-entry.
We ARE figuring out what DID hit the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on November 16, 2013, 02:05:18 pm
Are we assuming a spherical cow?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 16, 2013, 02:11:06 pm
Laythe's atmosphere can't be thick enough to completely ablate 67 tons of metal, can it? And even if so, that means it explodes with all that force anyway, just not at ground level.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 02:29:18 pm
Maybe not completely, but enough to rip it into pieces. It's about as thick as Earth.

In other news, I landed my first Mun Kethane Station. It's a ripoff of my Heavy Science Lander. It fit a drill, Kethane tank, Converter and  4 fuel & RCS tanks in 20t. My landing WAS a mess, as it occured during the night and I didn't plan for floodlights. As such, I mistook a 15° slope for a flat plain and sent my lander rolling down the hill. In the end, it stabilized, after loosing the ladder, 3 landing legs, an RCS tank and a KAS supply box plus I don't know how many panels.

I might take that lander and relocate it somewhere nicer later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 02:32:55 pm
This is what I get for letting all three immortals ride along to the north pole.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So many parachutes. Not enough power for 4 magnets! Goddamnit. The whole point of this rig was to start dropping and assembling habitation pods and build a polar base. Parts land 3-6 km apart, so they need to be put together and hooked in. All this with parts from KAS, Bavarian Aerospace - Tubes (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52139), and RemoteTech. The good thing is that there are parts to beef up electricity packed in the base hub that was dropped first. The first habitation module is 6 km away. The gantry is right between them. All this without RCS or engines, with atmosphere, and on Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 16, 2013, 02:39:50 pm
Do the tubes connect like docking ports?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 02:40:28 pm
Why did you need so much material for a polar base?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 02:43:59 pm
Have a look at the Bavarian tubes mod. It uses KAS to put things together. YOU CAN BUILD A BASE ONSITE ALMOST LIKE YOU WOULD IN KAS! It has docking ports with integrated doors that you can place on habitation modules. This means you can have a module with a docking port and another module, or tunnel, with a docking port and they will dock normally. You can have indoor tubes connected to modules all connected on the ground.

I'll have pictures once I actually start building. Right now I wanted modules for the Kerbals to actually live in. RemoteTech's command station requirements are 6 Kerbals, so I'm working up to that.

edit: I am rebuilding this gantry. The lack of symmetry at the wheels is killing me. It keeps drifting left. Lock steering on one wheel and it drifts right. This and power generation problems will mean a half hour drive to attachable solar panels and batteries. This has all gone horribly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 02:52:05 pm
Here's my Munar Gas Station:

(http://i.imgur.com/gekJsLE.png)

Also, I had some weird bug while I was warping waiting for the sun to raise. Some of my debris fell down, and is now resting 300m under the surface.

(http://i.imgur.com/gekJsLE.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 03:01:16 pm
That "little" part in the background? It hold 11 tons worth of building material. I'm building a BASE. This is no rinky dink six Kerbals in a tiny room. There will be indoor pathways. Everyone will likely have their own room.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Inside a habitation module.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 16, 2013, 03:03:33 pm
Dear gods that naked Kerbal is terrifying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 03:06:32 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 16, 2013, 03:03:33 pm
Dear gods that naked Kerbal is terrifying.
That's not the terrifying part. The habitation module only fits one Kerbalnaut. THAT NAKED KERBAL IS ALWAYS THERE IN EVERY HABITATION MODULE.

On that note, new rover gantry idea. Power generation and batteries will be down low so it's bottom heavy and stable.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on November 16, 2013, 04:09:26 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 16, 2013, 03:03:33 pm
Dear gods that naked Kerbal is terrifying.
I have seen the face of terror, and lo.  It was only a naked Kerbal. 

Seriously though, that thing is terrif-
Quote from: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 03:06:32 pm
That's not the terrifying part. The habitation module only fits one Kerbalnaut. THAT NAKED KERBAL IS ALWAYS THERE IN EVERY HABITATION MODULE.
Okay.  Terrifying AND a space/time wizard.  I now fear for my sanity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 16, 2013, 04:40:53 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 03:06:32 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 16, 2013, 03:03:33 pm
Dear gods that naked Kerbal is terrifying.
That's not the terrifying part. The habitation module only fits one Kerbalnaut. THAT NAKED KERBAL IS ALWAYS THERE IN EVERY HABITATION MODULE.
But it only fits one Kerbalnaut. Because of this, clearly it can not be a Kerbalnaut. My bets are on Robotic Kerbal "Companion." Because, really, they're sent out into deep space for years at a time, they need something to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on November 16, 2013, 04:58:59 pm
Quote from: alway on November 16, 2013, 04:40:53 pm
But it only fits one Kerbalnaut. Because of this, clearly it can not be a Kerbalnaut. My bets are on Robotic Kerbal "Companion." Because, really, they're sent out into deep space for years at a time, they need something to do.
Yeah, they need some to scream with at night.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 16, 2013, 05:48:25 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 16, 2013, 02:52:05 pm
---
That's twice the same image.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2013, 08:51:40 pm
Creepy Aunt lives. She weighs a bit over 6 tons as is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

ALL THE PARACHUTES
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those are the habitat modules.
This is pretty handy. (http://ksp.freeiz.com/)


This is what you can do with Bavarian tubes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The tubes were all placed on site by one Kerbal. Same with the solar panels. It's still a work in progress.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on November 18, 2013, 01:24:35 pm
Wow, that's really cool.

I some point i really need to start playing around with these mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tyyr on November 18, 2013, 04:00:08 pm
That parachute calculator should be handy, but I always try to land with a little gas in the tank so I can make a short braking burn. I've never had a ship break when landing at 5 m/s but I prefer to touch down softer than that.

It's interesting to see how the parachutes are figured and how hard diminishing returns hits adding more of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 18, 2013, 05:26:07 pm
So, the tubes can extend or contract so you're not lugging the entire footprint of each base section, or sending 100's of seperate 1-piece segments?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shooer on November 18, 2013, 05:27:50 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 18, 2013, 05:26:07 pm
So, the tubes can extend or contract so you're not lugging the entire footprint of each base section, or sending 100's of seperate 1-piece segments?
It uses KAS and it's cargo system to bring them as parts in a box that you attach in game with a Kerbal.

Edit: I come to love Lack Luster Labs, even tried making a plane with it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WHY CAN THIS FLY!  Well, you need to be at about a 30 degree angle to keep a stable altitude.  Also there were no survivors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2013, 07:10:35 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 18, 2013, 05:26:07 pm
So, the tubes can extend or contract so you're not lugging the entire footprint of each base section, or sending 100's of seperate 1-piece segments?

It was all inside that one white container on the big probe body.

Be careful when opening a dish that's folded up. It may knock pieces off your vehicle. Grr. This dish can never open even though it can reach across the known system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 18, 2013, 10:58:11 pm
I've been meaning to start making a space station, some tubes might be a nice addition for my green hamsters.
I've decided to work on a modular system modelling past space stations, firstup a skylab style core consisting of a rocomax32 tank attached to a kerbal equilivent of an apollo command module, I'll add parts onto it untill It's similar to MIR, then perhaps start up a fresh space station freedom style one in a higher different orbit.

In fact I think I'll do it in career mode, after I've sent an apollo style lunar mission so i can modify and reuse the components of that mission like the real skylab. I'll put some pictures up when I'm done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2013, 11:16:23 pm
If you use Bavarian try to leave the vessel and go away from it and come back, reloading physics and everything. The parts you placed will stick together properly then. You don't need to be too precise in placement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on November 18, 2013, 11:24:03 pm
I hooked up my old joystick, and boy, flying planes in a videogame was never so fun or visceral. It rolls really hard though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 18, 2013, 11:46:03 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on November 18, 2013, 11:24:03 pm
I hooked up my old joystick, and boy, flying planes in a videogame was never so fun or visceral. It rolls really hard though.
Try angling your wings slightly upwards, like in a shallow V. It should help stabilize rolliness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 19, 2013, 09:25:08 am
Ok so I tried adding in a bunch of mods that Scott Manley had in his new "Interstellar Quest" series.
I didn't mess with them whatsoever but somehow one of them completely broke the game, I can't get the game to load up at all now.

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8864/qwrp.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/qwrp.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Ok that image is a bit less zoomed in then I thought but its still fairly visible.

Anyway I know its not KAS, Kethane, Near-Future, or Interstellar (which is treeloader and warp plugin.) its also not Extraplanetary Launchpads.
All those were present and worked together.

Some of those in there went with other things like KW rocketry I think had Firespitter? Or B9 had that....yeah I pretty much did the standard "look in Gamedata of extracted mod, copy everything into gamedata of game" for all of those.
So anyone know what went wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on November 19, 2013, 10:01:43 am
Hey so I recently got this game (what with the recent steam sale and all) and I've messed around with it a bit. Now I'm looking to expand a little, and was wondering what mods do you guys normally use, if any?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 19, 2013, 10:03:17 am
Quote from: i2amroy on November 19, 2013, 10:01:43 am
Hey so I recently got this game (what with the recent steam sale and all) and I've messed around with it a bit. Now I'm looking to expand a little, and was wondering what mods do you guys normally use, if any?
KAS for easy refuelling and generally more docking fun.
Kethane for mining so ships have a purpose outside of research mode.
MechJeb so I can watch Netflix while playing KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 19, 2013, 10:15:42 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 19, 2013, 10:03:17 am
Quote from: i2amroy on November 19, 2013, 10:01:43 am
Hey so I recently got this game (what with the recent steam sale and all) and I've messed around with it a bit. Now I'm looking to expand a little, and was wondering what mods do you guys normally use, if any?
KAS for easy refuelling and generally more docking fun.
Kethane for mining so ships have a purpose outside of research mode.
MechJeb so I can watch Netflix while playing KSP.
This.

Also try Interstellar for its fast (but difficult to set up) warp drive, and if you REALLY want bases and such Extraplanetary Launchpads will synch nicely with Kethane and a nice low grav body like Minmus.

Unfortunately I haven't actually GOTTEN any launchpads or such on other bodies, but I assume a launch from Minmus would be so fuel efficient as to be game-breaking :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 19, 2013, 10:45:17 am
In addition to those mentioned I also use KW rocketry for more (and more sensible) parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 19, 2013, 11:57:17 am
The exobiology teacher is being boring as hell (by not actually teaching new things), so I play KSP instead. Or would be, if my laptop still had battery. My phone has, though, so there's that.
I have a lander on its way to Moho, and damn it is hard to get there.
Standard model still works so far. The launcher is complete overkill :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 19, 2013, 01:14:03 pm
I hear B9 is nice for airplane parts, but I don't like part packs that much myself.

Personally, I use the Sentar expansion which adds a bunch of planets, and a nice autoloader to skip the titlescreen.
KAS because it's so useful for everything, and I like the fact that I can drop a core of a base, then send a ship loaded with generators and solar panels and whatnot and have my Kerbals set up the base.
And Rbray's clouds and city lights pack, because A: It makes Kerbin more beautiful and B: Eve looks like shit without it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 19, 2013, 01:51:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 19, 2013, 09:25:08 am
=snop=

you got enough RAM? Do you have too many mods?

I only have 4 mods installed and the game uses almost as much RAM as it can right now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 19, 2013, 02:24:08 pm
I've been thinking that the Planet factory mod would be a great way to add an asteroid belt. Unfortunately, it causes my game to crash on startup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2013, 03:04:53 pm
Quote from: i2amroy on November 19, 2013, 10:01:43 am
Hey so I recently got this game (what with the recent steam sale and all) and I've messed around with it a bit. Now I'm looking to expand a little, and was wondering what mods do you guys normally use, if any?

What do YOU want to do in the game? Fly planes? Fly rockets into space? Strand Kerbals? Build colonies? What feels too easy in vanilla KSP? There are vastly different mods for all of those. How do you play?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 19, 2013, 03:05:47 pm
Wasn't there that one really old mod that added an asteroid belt? Is that still around?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: guessingo on November 19, 2013, 03:41:11 pm
what kind of state is this game in? How close is it to being what most people would consider a 'completed' game? Have they been making steady progress?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 19, 2013, 03:41:37 pm
Just installed Kethane and the Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Did I get the right version? Those mining parts look really, really bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 19, 2013, 03:43:54 pm
Quote from: guessingo on November 19, 2013, 03:41:11 pm
what kind of state is this game in? How close is it to being what most people would consider a 'completed' game? Have they been making steady progress?
It doesn't feel like beta or unfinished imo, so I consider it a completed game already. I'm not really following the progress but there was a huge update recently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 19, 2013, 03:47:24 pm
Think of it like Dwarf Fortress, its not done, fun to play and getting added to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2013, 03:47:56 pm
Quote from: guessingo on November 19, 2013, 03:41:11 pm
what kind of state is this game in? How close is it to being what most people would consider a 'completed' game? Have they been making steady progress?

It's completely playable. What other question is there to ask of Bay12?

Quote from: HugoLuman on November 19, 2013, 03:41:37 pm
Just installed Kethane and the Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Did I get the right version? Those mining parts look really, really bad.
EL looks bad. Kethane looks good. Which one are you talking about?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 19, 2013, 03:55:04 pm
The recycle bin, hex containers, smelter, and ore bins. They look terrible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2013, 03:58:06 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 19, 2013, 03:55:04 pm
The recycle bin, hex containers, smelter, and ore bins. They look terrible.
Yup. That's about all there is to say about it. EL is still handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 19, 2013, 04:05:01 pm
It dont need to look good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 19, 2013, 04:10:44 pm
It do need to look tolerable, though. I mean there are missing faces on the bin mesh, with a horrible green texture.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2013, 10:14:41 am
Quote from: Putnam on November 19, 2013, 01:51:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 19, 2013, 09:25:08 am
=snop=

you got enough RAM? Do you have too many mods?

I only have 4 mods installed and the game uses almost as much RAM as it can right now.
Well how much RAM do I need? I checked earlier for another game and my free RAM is at something like 3.5 Gigs.
It IS entirely possible I have too many mods, but I hope not, because THEY ALL JUST LOOK SO GOOD.

Also thank you for paying attention to my question *hugs*

Quote from: BigD145 on November 19, 2013, 03:58:06 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 19, 2013, 03:55:04 pm
The recycle bin, hex containers, smelter, and ore bins. They look terrible.
Yup. That's about all there is to say about it. EL is still handy.
Yeah EL is pretty crap on Aesthetics, but seriously LAUNCH FROM MINMUS! HOW CAN YOU SAY NO TO THAT? I can because I can't figure out how to do it, but other then that small bump HOW CAN YOU SAY NO? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
Asking if you have enough RAM isn't really a useful question.  As long as you have more than, say, 4 GB or so you're probably as good as anyone else, provided you're not running anything else at the same time.  KSP is 32-bit*, so it can't even address more than 2 GB of RAM.

*Yes, there is a 64-bit build for Linux, but it crashes constantly.  I use Linux myself and I still run the 32-bit build because it's that bad.

EDIT: Actually it can use something near 4 GB, not 2 GB.  My mistake.  So I guess six gigs total would give you 2 GB for anything else while using 4 GB for KSP.  Anything more than that is extra.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on November 20, 2013, 11:02:22 am
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
Asking if you have enough RAM isn't really a useful question.  As long as you have more than, say, 4 GB or so you're probably as good as anyone else, provided you're not running anything else at the same time.  KSP is 32-bit*, so it can't even address more than 2 GB of RAM.

*Yes, there is a 64-bit build for Linux, but it crashes constantly.  I use Linux myself and I still run the 32-bit build because it's that bad.

He is refering to this:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55469-A-Quick-Flowchart-to-Mod-or-Not-to-Mod
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2013, 01:03:14 pm
Well crap...I don't want to have to pick-and-choose my mods :(
I WANTS DEMS ALLS.
Also Scott Manley managed with all these so its obviously POSSIBLE.
I just have no idea how to do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 20, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 19, 2013, 04:10:44 pm
It do need to look tolerable, though. I mean there are missing faces on the bin mesh, with a horrible green texture.
you can try using this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/30673-0-22-Spherical-and-Toridal-Tank-Pack-(Updated-10-20-13)) instead of the kethane tanks. May make it a bit more manageable to look at.

 
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
*Yes, there is a 64-bit build for Linux, but it crashes constantly.  I use Linux myself and I still run the 32-bit build because it's that bad.
I use the 64-bit version, and it is rock solid. Have you used the bit-patch?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 01:38:13 pm
Quote from: BFEL on November 20, 2013, 01:03:14 pm
Well crap...I don't want to have to pick-and-choose my mods :(
I WANTS DEMS ALLS.
Also Scott Manley managed with all these so its obviously POSSIBLE.
I just have no idea how to do that.

A lot of RAM-heavy mods are usually that way because of textures, and a lot of those will include a low-res texture set.  If you use the low-res textures you can run more mods without running out of RAM space, maybe he's doing that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tyyr on November 20, 2013, 02:49:18 pm
B9 has a reduced texture size option in the newest pack. Use that. Also, go through your mods and delete bits and pieces you don't need. Seriously ask yourself if you'll ever use a part. If the answer is no then delete it. I take an axe to a lot of KW and Nova Punch parts because I don't need them and leaving them in clogs the game up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 03:04:17 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 20, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
*Yes, there is a 64-bit build for Linux, but it crashes constantly.  I use Linux myself and I still run the 32-bit build because it's that bad.
I use the 64-bit version, and it is rock solid. Have you used the bit-patch?

Err, no?  I've never heard of anything, and Google fails me.  Do you have a link or something?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it, I think.  The original thread that he posted it in died with the KSP forum crash, but I think I found the code.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 20, 2013, 04:27:03 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 20, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 19, 2013, 04:10:44 pm
It do need to look tolerable, though. I mean there are missing faces on the bin mesh, with a horrible green texture.
you can try using this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/30673-0-22-Spherical-and-Toridal-Tank-Pack-(Updated-10-20-13)) instead of the kethane tanks. May make it a bit more manageable to look at.

The Kethane mod parts look fine. It's the ore/metal mining parts from the EXP-Launchpads that look terrible. The launchpad looks fine, it's just these:

Spoiler: notice the missing faces on top of the green cylendar (click to show/hide)

Are quite jarring. I don't see them as parts of a processing facility, I see them as poor 3D models attached to an otherwise believable-seeming ship. I don't get why they look so bad, the auger and ore detector look fine. But as they are required to actually build the ships for the extra launch pads, they break the whole mod for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 20, 2013, 05:31:23 pm
I've begun playing this again pretty heavily lately, and have some general how-to questions. 

First, an observation:  I'm playing stock, in career mode.  having limited access to parts and a method (science) of getting incremental access to more parts makes the game vastly more fun for me than it was before.  Now, I have an objective to shoot for rather than just building the biggest craziest things possible and watching them explode.

On to the questions:

1 - multi-parachute landings of large objects:

I dont have much available in the way of RCS yet, so I'm adding stability by placing multiple capsules at the top of my rockets.  This has the added advantage of allowing me to bring home multiple soil samples and EVA reports from each trip.

I'm having some problems with parachuting these things back to the ground.  Say I've got a 9-capsule cluster at the top of a rocket, the parachutes tend to pull the thing upside down during landing.  I can combat this by landing with SAS enabled, but it is still a struggle to consistantly get it to the ground safely.

Any tips?

2 - launch stability for tall rockets:

I've got some pretty good lifters made out of the basic entry-level (all the level 4 tech, some of the level 5) parts, and they are stable enough once they are under thrust.  But, because they are long and skinny, they wobble a bit on the launch pad.  I can put those big red cranes on there to stabilize them, but then there is about a 20% chance that a lower stage will whack into an upper crane while the thing is on its way up.

Is there a way to combat this?  Is there a way to force a crane to stand further away from the rocket, to avoid being hit by lower stage boosters?

Do I just need to leave symmetric gaps in the booster arrangement, to account for the presence of cranes?  I'd rather adjust the crane position, if possible.

3 - Is there any benefit to planting flags?  They dont seem to create any research and instead clutter up my map.  Is it just a RP function?

4 - Excessively Heavy Lifters.  Any tips?  I've looked at some heavy lift examples, and most are pretty traditional rocket stacks -- most use the big yellow tanks that I dont have access to yet.  I saw someone had posted a picture of an air-breathing SSTO VTOL lifter, basically a ring of rockets that lifted a tank straight up.  Is this feasable?  was he cheating?

I tried a variant on that design, and about half the engines exploded when they got to a certain altitude.  I was expecting that flame-out meant they just went out when they didnt have enough air, and then would kick back in if they ever dipped back into the atmosphere.  They totally exploded instead.

I've tried making massive rocket rings by using 8x symmetry and angling out boosters in a giant cone or inverted V, and then turning each of the 8 into clusters of 7.  Unfortuneatly, I cant use the 6x symmetry on top of the existing 8x, so I need to sort of eyeball the subassemblies and they tend to end up slightly unbalanced.

What's the best way to cluster an absurd amount of thrust in your first stage?  Without making giant pancakes of solid boosters, I mean.

5 - speaking of SSTOs, I take it there is no real way to "recover" a rocket for future use?  There is the "recover" button, but it is not like it brings the slightly damaged version back to your hanger to be refit -- it just cleans it up from the map and gives you the science and pilot back.  Is there any real way to "re-use" a lift vehicle at this point in the game, or is that still a planned feature?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 20, 2013, 05:38:33 pm
1: SAS thingies. They just add stability for power.
2: Launch clamps. They are big, red, immobile and under structural
3. Not really. More of a "I went here allready" than a "EXTRA GUFF".
4: Air intakes are nuts my friend. Jets can be quitepowerful, just dont let them flare out.
5: You can always just refuel it. I dont know if there is a way to transfer experiments, but you always could store them in a capsule you drop off when you return and then shove a new one on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 20, 2013, 05:41:06 pm
1. Position your parachutes so that the center of mass/gravity of the lander is below them.
2. Faraday cage. Faraday cage everything. Alternatively, radial beams that decouple in flight. Combine these with launch clamps.
3. They help mark out areas you've already explored.
4. There's always the Asparagus design. Scaling it up is usually done laterally. All you need are some fuel tanks and fuel ducts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 20, 2013, 05:43:07 pm
I agree with the above things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 20, 2013, 06:03:07 pm
wait, what is a Faraday Cage in this context?  I'm pretty sure its not an electrically conductive cage to divert EM signals and prevent eavesdropping.

Do you mean building a giant detachable shell around my rocket, like some sort of crazy pantyhose egg?  How do you hold it together, with struts?  I've never run struts between stages before, do they detatch when you decouple the stages or will they tangle stuff up?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 20, 2013, 06:09:02 pm
When the two ends of a strut become separate items (staging, or breaking off) then the strut disappears.  Additionally, struts are purely visual, there is no actual collision mesh on them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 20, 2013, 06:45:34 pm
Shoot. My Moho mission widely missed. I was able to get within 300k km of the planet, but I was 6000m/s short of an orbit. a shame.
Still got a fair bit of science by doing and transmitting goo stuff while in not-orbit, so not a complete failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 21, 2013, 12:37:16 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 20, 2013, 06:09:02 pm
When the two ends of a strut become separate items (staging, or breaking off) then the strut disappears.  Additionally, struts are purely visual, there is no actual collision mesh on them.

..... Really?
This saves me heaps of time since now I won't have to put decouplers everywhere and manually put them into the right stage whenever i make a rocket which needs struts between stages.

Also if your rocket hits the launch clamps you could put beams between your rocket and the struts, or just make your own launch tower out of struts radial decouplers and beams, which you anchor to the ground with actual launch clamps.
It's what I always did for stability in the demo when i had no clamps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 21, 2013, 01:10:08 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on November 21, 2013, 12:37:16 am
Also if your rocket hits the launch clamps you could put beams between your rocket and the struts, or just make your own launch tower out of struts radial decouplers and beams, which you anchor to the ground with actual launch clamps.
It's what I always did for stability in the demo when i had no clamps.

I tried stacking a bunch of the thick(? whatever the ones that protrude on a big frame are...) radial decouplers to make an extension away from the rocket before reaching the clamp, but man was it a disaster.  Not stable at all, and led to worse damage than if I had taken a chance on the lower stage whacking the clamp.

but man, now that I know I can use struts like that, all bets are off.  I was wondering WTF those I-beams were for, I couldn't imagine any practical use for them given their weight.  Now I know!!!

I'm not sure which version this was added in, but saving subsection templates is really a godsend for stuff like this.  it used to be each rocket was a bespoke creation, now I can re-use entire stages. or, in this case, I can build a stabilization tower and re-use it on different sides of the same rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 21, 2013, 01:11:38 am
It was the latest major update that added subassemblies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 21, 2013, 02:17:58 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on November 20, 2013, 04:27:03 pm
The Kethane mod parts look fine. It's the ore/metal mining parts from the EXP-Launchpads that look terrible. The launchpad looks fine, it's just these:

Spoiler: notice the missing faces on top of the green cylendar (click to show/hide)
It's been a while since I've used EL, but the green bin is just for material storage, right? I'm looking at the mod I linked, and it should have the capacity to store EL materials. I don't know any replacement for the ugly smelter, though.
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 03:04:17 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 20, 2013, 01:33:57 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
*Yes, there is a 64-bit build for Linux, but it crashes constantly.  I use Linux myself and I still run the 32-bit build because it's that bad.
I use the 64-bit version, and it is rock solid. Have you used the bit-patch?

Err, no?  I've never heard of anything, and Google fails me.  Do you have a link or something?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it, I think.  The original thread that he posted it in died with the KSP forum crash, but I think I found the code.
Just to be sure, I was talking about this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24529-The-Linux-compatibility-thread!?p=449903&viewfull=1#post449903) patch. Fixes some 32bit references or something like that.

@everyone else: You really ought to check bargain rocket parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58639-0-22-Bargain-Rocket-Parts-v1-0-Bust-out-the-duct-tape-we-re-going-to-space!) out. Believe me, it's pretty fantastic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 21, 2013, 05:25:43 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 21, 2013, 02:17:58 am
@everyone else: You really ought to check bargain rocket parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58639-0-22-Bargain-Rocket-Parts-v1-0-Bust-out-the-duct-tape-we-re-going-to-space!) out. Believe me, it's pretty fantastic.

I just came here to say that. It Is Glorious.  (http://imgur.com/a/hVBgM)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on November 21, 2013, 06:49:05 am
I have come to say, that with the completion of my compressed air powered plane, I have done just about everything you can do without leaving Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 21, 2013, 01:33:52 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 21, 2013, 02:17:58 am
Just to be sure, I was talking about this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24529-The-Linux-compatibility-thread!?p=449903&viewfull=1#post449903) patch. Fixes some 32bit references or something like that.

@everyone else: You really ought to check bargain rocket parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58639-0-22-Bargain-Rocket-Parts-v1-0-Bust-out-the-duct-tape-we-re-going-to-space!) out. Believe me, it's pretty fantastic.

Thanks, yeah.  I tried it and it seems to have helped, but I haven't had time to play more than a couple minutes yet.

That mod reminds me of Psychonauts for some reason  :P

EDIT: Figures.  I go make the rounds grabbing updates for my mods, and apparently the Near Future pack removed its download because he's using some of the code from the guy who wrote Kethane.  Really, people?  This is one of the reasons I stopped writing Minecraft mods.  Nobody's making any money here.  If someone was using large chunks of my code, I'd feel honored that other people felt my code was worth using as a template.

Stop waving your e-peen around and go back to improving Kethane.  The idea here is to make the game more fun for everyone, not play copyright troll.

/rant
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 21, 2013, 03:26:05 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on November 21, 2013, 01:33:52 pm
EDIT: Figures.  I go make the rounds grabbing updates for my mods, and apparently the Near Future pack removed its download because he's using some of the code from the guy who wrote Kethane.  Really, people?  This is one of the reasons I stopped writing Minecraft mods.  Nobody's making any money here.  If someone was using large chunks of my code, I'd feel honored that other people felt my code was worth using as a template.
Well, the dropbox link for Near Future is here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7s0qtthemof3dk/NearFuture0_24.zip) still. Have fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 21, 2013, 03:53:11 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on November 21, 2013, 01:33:52 pm
Figures.  I go make the rounds grabbing updates for my mods, and apparently the Near Future pack removed its download because he's using some of the code from the guy who wrote Kethane.  Really, people?
Uuuugh. Sometimes I would really like to be able to mind-control people. Not for long. Something like 5 minutes at a time. But if I could I would take every modder on either side of an issue like that and have the aggressor post a long apology, and the victim create a shitton of backup links for when the mind control wears off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 21, 2013, 03:55:09 pm
Ah, thanks!  You, sir, are a lifesaver.  May your beard strangle many elves, or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 21, 2013, 08:51:05 pm
To those who suggested using the B9 Lowered textures: It worked, thank you.
Granted now I can't find anything FROM B9....do their parts only appear with spaceplanes? If so that is silly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 21, 2013, 11:13:39 pm
Quote from: Canisaur on November 20, 2013, 10:58:21 am
EDIT: Actually it can use something near 4 GB, not 2 GB.  My mistake.  So I guess six gigs total would give you 2 GB for anything else while using 4 GB for KSP.  Anything more than that is extra.
Do you have test data for this? Because it's either 2 or around 3.5, depending on whether it has the LAA flag set on the executable. If it only uses 2, you may be able to increase that to around 3.5 by doing some hacking on the .exe to try turning on the LAA flag. You can find instructions for doing such with a simple google. The only reason this could fail to put it up to 3.5 would be some low-level bithacks in the pointer code that Unity is built with; which would just result in a crash, or at worse some save corruption (so needless to say, backup your folder before doing so).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Canisaur on November 22, 2013, 10:27:39 am
No test data personally, no.  I was going off of various posts on the KSP forums.  Some people claim the game's RAM usage has gone up to 5 GB or higher, but I don't see how that's possible unless Windows counts cached files as part of a process' memory usage or something.

I'm pretty sure the LAA flag is set.  General consensus is that it uses around 3.5 GB.  Having more RAM can help if it's allocating large single objects in memory (since a single allocation needs contiguous RAM space, which is more likely to be available if you have cavernous RAM), but I can't see what it would be allocating that would be larger than a few meg.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 22, 2013, 11:24:48 am
Windows counts video ram as in use by the application (roughly speaking do no want to write all the story because meh)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 22, 2013, 03:36:53 pm
Just discovered that I can use symmetries of symmetries, and avoid most if not all hand placing of parts!  I can make a cluster of fuel tanks with 6x or 8x symmetry, and then save them as templates.  I can then attach copies of the templates to a start shaped structural frame with 8x symmetry, and WHAM! massive lower stage for a super-heavy-lift-vehicle.

So now that I am using such massive bundles of parts in absurd configurations (good thing finances are not implemented yet, or I'd have to rethink this) I am having concerns about the copious quantity of struts that are being used to hold all these bundles of tanks together.

I have been using X shaped strut connections, but does this actually add value?  Is there any advantage to using an X shape rather than just a single strut between components? 

In real life, there would be additional rigidity with an X strut.  But with the game physics, I'm thinking I could probably shave some weight without sacrificing stability by trimming this down a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 03:41:15 pm
X is okay for multiple parts on top of each other to shore things up.

[] []
  x
[] []

Imagine the left set is connected vertically (ditto on right set), so use an x for top left to bottom right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 03:49:08 pm
I'm not sure struts even add weight.  I've heard that they do in VAB, but on the platform they're counted as 0-mass, as are air intakes.

That said, I usually do fine with single struts.  The real key is placement, not amount, of struts.  In general, reaching further away makes struts better, for some reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on November 22, 2013, 03:53:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 03:49:08 pm
I'm not sure struts even add weight.  I've heard that they do in VAB, but on the platform they're counted as 0-mass, as are air intakes.

That said, I usually do fine with single struts.  The real key is placement, not amount, of struts.  In general, reaching further away makes struts better, for some reason.

struts have no weight and don't even have collision meshes

i have no idea what's the thing with air intakes, but i've seen it written in this here thread that landing gear has no weight also, but has half a ton each in vab which causes com issues
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 22, 2013, 04:06:37 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 03:41:15 pm
X is okay for multiple parts on top of each other to shore things up.

This is exactly the kind of thing I usually do.  What I'm wondering is if something like this will work just as well:

A I usually truss up rings of boosters or fuel tanks like this:

Code: [Select]
[] [] []
  X  X
[] [] []


Code: [Select]
[] [] []
 
[]-[]-[]
Assuming the tanks are also anchored at the top, placing a reinforcing strut at the bottom should be just as good?  It SEEMS just as good in some simple tests, but I have not tried it on anything absurdly massive yet.

But if it really is zero-mass, I guess its a moot point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 04:27:45 pm
It's a part, so it's not a moot point. It still has to be calculated. I'll put one strut at the bottoms of booster clusters just to keep them from flapping about. The boosters aren't there for long.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 22, 2013, 05:05:20 pm
Even if they aren't zero-mass, they aren't zero-polygons, so reducing strut count might improve the game's performance when launching enormous rockets.

I recently crash-landed a lander on Laythe. Kerbal survived and can get in and out of his capsule, but all the science equipment, engines, and power generators were lost. Technically, I think the science equipment and power generators might still exist and be in functional condition, but they clipped through the terrain and landed in the water 300 meters below the rest of the lander. Whole incident occured because the damn science module got ripped off when the parachutes deployed, leaving too few chutes to slow the lander, resulting in it crashing into the ground just fast enough to ruin everything but the capsule and two of the fuel tanks which the capsule is attached to.

Here's what the situation looks like for him:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

all goes well, I will eventually be able to rescue him.

I also made my first successful, non-crashy, reasonably-controllable airplane:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And got Bob stuck on the deck of a very large rover:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He fell off the ladder while it was in motion and couldn't get up. The rover simply never stopped roving.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:19:41 pm
I think KAS would allow you to pick up your equipment if it was still close enough to your Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 05:23:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:19:41 pm
I think KAS would allow you to pick up your equipment if it was still close enough to your Kerbal.
I think at this point, he just needs to get a new rocket over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:46:59 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 05:23:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:19:41 pm
I think KAS would allow you to pick up your equipment if it was still close enough to your Kerbal.
I think at this point, he just needs to get a new rocket over.

Nah. Just needs more duct tape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 22, 2013, 06:44:00 pm
okay, riddle me this ye smart peoples:

If I have an ASAS (controls engine gimbal, reaction wheels, RCS thrusters, and control surfaces) does that completely supersede the SAS?

If I have a command module with a SAS (all of them, right?) why would I need a dedicated SAS rather than in in-line reaction wheel?

When is there a reason to buy a SAS?

Related:  I take it there is no component that will vary the output of different engines to control your trajectory?  Many twin engine aircraft work this way, and I would assume that it would be a viable rocket feature as well?

Related to Related:  Jet engines should generate torque in the direction of their rotation, creating interesting turning characteristics, or requiring them to be balanced in some way.  piston engines have counter-balancers in them, so I'm guessing single-engine jets must have some sort of counter-balancer also?  but Counter-Rotating engines would off set each other, so maybe each engine can be lighter and more efficient that way?

I remember WWII aircraft had different maneuvering profiles depending on their engine setup, and some of the old computer games simulated this to some extent (easier to bank one way than the other)

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but I'm about to go have beers with one so I'll ask him about this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 22, 2013, 07:31:11 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:46:59 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 05:23:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 05:19:41 pm
I think KAS would allow you to pick up your equipment if it was still close enough to your Kerbal.
I think at this point, he just needs to get a new rocket over.

Nah. Just needs more duct tape.

Unfortunately she's right: KAS isn't going to save a kerbal who's equipment is stuck in the rocks 300 meters below him. When I said it clipped through the terrain and landed in the water, I meant it's currently underground! I also didn't have KAS installed already so I don't have a parts bucket to use for repairs. And if I did bring one, it probably would have exploded as well. :P

I am planning to do another mission to Laythe with a lander that can hopefully land and extract poor Milkin from the surface, but currently I'm stumped as to how to produce a lander that can reliably do so. Landing on and taking off from objects without an atmosphere is sooo much easier :C
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 07:34:06 pm
You could always just drop a toolbox of supplies and call it a one way trip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 07:44:20 pm
ASAS is VERY strong SAS, as well as controlling all the other stuff.
SAS is a lighter weight and less costly option than ASAS.
Jet engines probably should act very differently.  But this is rocket science where you point in generally the right direction and eyeball it.  jet engines generating torque and thrust would become complicated and less fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 22, 2013, 08:45:04 pm
Made my first kethane base/thing what goes on a planetoid and isn't meant to take off afterward today.

I did it like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEkj16QN9poJyRrfAugyiC7W&v=HXz8x36OfB0&feature=player_detailpage&t=970), but I didn't use MechJeb1 my payload was an entire 2.5 meter kethane container with miscellaneous stuff attached to make it more roverlike2 which I built front-to-back and had to be dropped sideways, I did it on minmus and also I did it at night in the dark. It took me, like, 8 tries, hehe.

1The landing autopilot wouldn't work due to the fact that I'm not actually landing and the translatron had no goddamn idea what to do with my two thermal rockets (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-22-KSP-Interstellar-(Science-Integration-Heat-Mechanics)-Version-0-7-4-(Beta)), apparently.

2Wheels on the bottom, two kethane miners at the sides (one upside-down because I didn't really think of the implications of building the rover sideways) and a large solar panel and landing leg on top. Just the one landing leg so that it wouldn't turn the wrong way when I dropped it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 22, 2013, 08:57:09 pm
What's the mod that uses satellite bouncing and communications arrays and whatnot?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 22, 2013, 09:12:13 pm
RemoteTech
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2013, 09:45:30 pm
RemoteTech 2 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56399-0-22-Remote-Tech-2-v1-1-0-November-7-Build-those-satellite-networks!)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fair warning: signal delay is on by default. It's easy to turn it off if you want to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2013, 09:35:24 am
So I saw Scott Manley using a mod that makes Life Support systems necessary, its called TAC Life Support or something.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has this and knows if later on you get systems that 'generate' those resources instead of just storing them.
For munbases and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 23, 2013, 10:08:37 am
Quote from: BFEL on November 23, 2013, 09:35:24 am
So I saw Scott Manley using a mod that makes Life Support systems necessary, its called TAC Life Support or something.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has this and knows if later on you get systems that 'generate' those resources instead of just storing them.
For munbases and such.
I don't think there is anything to generate food but you can reprocess water and air if you have sufficient power.

so you'd still need to ship food in... but there are 'tanks' which hold food so you could have a good amount of storage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 23, 2013, 11:18:33 am
(http://img.ie/sv87n.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on November 23, 2013, 11:26:31 am
^ Funkeeeh :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 23, 2013, 11:43:12 am
The Kraken has migrated to your video card.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 23, 2013, 12:10:55 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 23, 2013, 11:18:33 am
-image snip-
Jedediah says:

Nope.avi
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 23, 2013, 02:01:40 pm
So I'm just flying my rocket into orbit like a boss.

When, suddenly, MY BOTTOM STAGE PHASES TROUGH HALF OF MY ROCKET AND EXPLODES MIDWAY, BLOWING UP EVERYTHING AND RESULTING IN THIS.
(http://img.ie/yjwbg.png)
WHAT THE FUCK, KSP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 23, 2013, 02:06:44 pm
Kraken.

You found it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on November 23, 2013, 02:07:58 pm
that can happen. I think the cause might be excessive thrust, pushing your bottom stage through the rest of the rocket. lowering throttle usually helps, when it happens to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 23, 2013, 02:24:30 pm
Quote from: andrea on November 23, 2013, 02:07:58 pm
that can happen. I think the cause might be excessive thrust, pushing your bottom stage through the rest of the rocket. lowering throttle usually helps, when it happens to me.
Also, more struts to distribute the load vertically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 23, 2013, 02:25:11 pm
I'd like a mod with Duct Tape struts
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 23, 2013, 02:25:42 pm
vertical strutting is key. I always run a double line of struts down my rockets using the smallest cubicstrut piece
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 23, 2013, 04:25:42 pm
I have fucktons of vertical struts to prevent wobble. This was the last middle stage of an asparagus, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 23, 2013, 05:18:56 pm
Actually, I think I saw on the dev page a post about him fixing a bug that sounds suspiciously like that...

http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/67097045812/devnote-tuesdays-bonus-editon

That might be it.  Was there a docking port there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 23, 2013, 05:54:33 pm
I'm pretty sure it's the "Rocket is not rigid, distribution of force is not instant" bug/feature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on November 23, 2013, 08:32:45 pm
So! I've been spending entirely too much time playing this game lately, and decided that - since I'm restarting career mode with mods - I'd check to see if there was any interest into me making a sort of forum game out of it. More specifically:
-Everyone playing gets one Astronaut renamed however they like.
-Every player also gets one Kerbal scientist, who gets to propose missions and where to take research next. (The more kerbal-like the mission and research descriptions the better, of course. :P)
-Astronauts can pick which missions they want to go on (first come first serve, though a 3-man command module can always be used) from the list of those proposed... But can't vote to go on one from the same player's scientist.
-I'll do a couple missions a day and post the results. I take no responsibility for Jeb's actions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2013, 08:36:34 pm
Quote from: dragnar on November 23, 2013, 08:32:45 pm
So! I've been spending entirely too much time playing this game lately, and decided that - since I'm restarting career mode with mods - I'd check to see if there was any interest into me making a sort of forum game out of it. More specifically:
-Everyone playing gets one Astronaut renamed however they like.
-Every player also gets one Kerbal scientist, who gets to propose missions and where to take research next. (The more kerbal-like the mission and research descriptions the better, of course. :P)
-Astronauts can pick which missions they want to go on (first come first serve, though a 3-man command module can always be used) from the list of those proposed... But can't vote to go on one from the same player's scientist.
-I'll do a couple missions a day and post the results. I take no responsibility for Jeb's actions.
My scientist votes you plant a flag on the sun :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 23, 2013, 09:55:37 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 23, 2013, 02:01:40 pm
So I'm just flying my rocket into orbit like a boss.
When, suddenly, MY BOTTOM STAGE PHASES TROUGH HALF OF MY ROCKET AND EXPLODES MIDWAY, BLOWING UP EVERYTHING AND RESULTING IN THIS.
WHAT THE FUCK, KSP?
So, if you're tired of your rockets flying like a wet noodle, and would much rather them to fly like one of the uncooked variety, try Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55657-0-22-Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement-v1-4-2-Properly-Rigid-Part-Connections?p=734837&vi) I haven't had to do vertical strutting since I installed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 24, 2013, 04:52:21 am
No docking port. The orange tank was connected directly to the rockomax adapter you see on the picture.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 24, 2013, 09:27:11 am
Turn on no clip and strut right through the lip of connected parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 24, 2013, 03:42:26 pm
There's a new challenge on the subreddit. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1r8tfa/you_take_a_left_then_a_right_then_a_oh_cr/)

I'm thinking of going for Manley mode by landing on the innermost planet, then on the outermost planet. Probably going to need ions for that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 24, 2013, 03:46:16 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 24, 2013, 03:42:26 pm
There's a new challenge on the subreddit. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1r8tfa/you_take_a_left_then_a_right_then_a_oh_cr/)

I'm thinking of going for Manley mode by landing on the innermost planet, then on the outermost planet. Probably going to need ions for that...
Inb4 Scott does every planet in a SSTO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on November 24, 2013, 05:57:09 pm
There's a guy who did ALL THE PLANETS. In one launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 24, 2013, 07:47:51 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on November 24, 2013, 05:57:09 pm
There's a guy who did ALL THE PLANETS. In one launch.

remember that. some of it was very clever, like bringing only a small vehicle around instead of the full ship to every planet - he moved just the lander around each system
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 25, 2013, 04:41:40 am
How to get rid of Jebediah, forever.

On my his trip to Jool, I did some nifty pathing to visit all its moons. However, if you timewarp up and down, your trajectory can change, minutely. So in my impatience I went out of timewarp, to find I wasn't nicely gravitybreaking off of vall, I was headed straight for its center at about 3000 m/s. I managed to deflect my trajectory, missing Vall by hundreds of meters, with 157dV to spare. The new trajectory would crash me into Jool, and I spent the last of that to get my periapsis just in the safe zone. 5 dV left (aka 5 drops of fuel).

At the second orbit I cleanly crashed straight into Laythe, at a speed of about 3500 m/s. Dumped the rocket, parachute worked, and Jeb is now floating in Laythe's ocean. Getting him back (getting a lander to Laythe, land on the ocean at a specific spot, then return to Kerbin) is going to be quite the challenge...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on November 25, 2013, 05:45:37 am
He could just commit suicide and reincarnate back at KSC like a cosmic horror.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on November 25, 2013, 06:17:52 am
You can suicide Kerbals? I haven't tried, but I think the gravity on Laythe is too big to get him to kill himself with his jetpack... Also, if doing it the easy way was my thing, I wouldn't be playing DF and KSP :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 25, 2013, 03:38:53 pm
its called flight termination.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 25, 2013, 05:10:26 pm
Or, if you have mods, you can turn them into fuel O_O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 25, 2013, 07:48:37 pm
I thought you had to turn them into kethane first?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 25, 2013, 07:54:56 pm
Yes, but...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on November 26, 2013, 09:00:50 am
It's aliiiive.

I have finally succeeded in making a maneuverable, fast, stylish-as-hell VTOL jet plane. I've also got a 100% homemade subassembly for RC missiles, which I will later attach to my VTOL.

I will prolly post pictures later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 03:15:56 pm
SRB or liquid?

I have a fun design, But I may have ditched it at somepoint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 26, 2013, 06:49:50 pm
I'll drop this there


http://www.igpp.ucla.edu/public/THEMIS/SCI/Pubs/artemis/broschart_etal.pdf

background info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THEMIS

Spoiler: image for gaining your attention (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 10:08:12 pm
... Err... Don't people already do multi-satellite launches?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 26, 2013, 10:10:42 pm
Why are you puting IRL space stuff here?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: buckets on November 26, 2013, 10:33:21 pm
Maybe it's a challenge to drop five satellites from one launch?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 10:33:56 pm
Five? Pah. Do ten.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 26, 2013, 10:43:21 pm
Not asparagus, then. You'll need a freaking revolver-chamber configuration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 11:06:25 pm
Not really. Two stacked, four off those two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 26, 2013, 11:16:18 pm
I was thinking of the coolest-looking way to do it. Also, with 12.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 11:49:29 pm
A revolver thing might be cool. Expeshally if you get it to revolve.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 26, 2013, 11:57:44 pm
Say you have a central collumn, from which are branched 6 anchor segments. From these, hang the detachable satellite modules:
    _O_
 O/     \O
  |center
 O\___/O
      O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 27, 2013, 12:05:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is my second time docking, and by the end I had less then one unit of liquid fuel.    The space station is a rocket that can be sent anywhere, and contains all the fuel that could be needed by any vessel.   The shuttle ducking with it is fully capable of going to the Mun, landing, taking off, and then redocking in orbit around Kerbin.   I plan on eventually installing a kethane mine on the Mun and Minimus, along with building a SSTO plane that can take Kerbals to and from Kerbin orbit.  Once that's done the only waste I'll have will be in putting space stations into orbit.   

Quote from: Aseaheru on November 26, 2013, 11:49:29 pm
A revolver thing might be cool. Expeshally if you get it to revolve.
The first use would be aiming it at a space station.  Russian roulette is childs play compared to Kerbal roulette.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinlessmoon on November 27, 2013, 12:23:55 am
Alright guys, can you give me a run down of all the essential mods I need? As well as any hints or tips? I haven't fully devoted myself to playing the game, other than dabbling occasionally so any suggestions would be nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 27, 2013, 12:45:10 am
Quote from: Sinlessmoon on November 27, 2013, 12:23:55 am
Alright guys, can you give me a run down of all the essential mods I need? As well as any hints or tips? I haven't fully devoted myself to playing the game, other than dabbling occasionally so any suggestions would be nice.
Deadly Re-Entry makes for a lot more Fun performing space travel.
FAR totally redoes the KSP aerodynamics model, and makes things like aerodynamic nosecones actually make sense and perform well.
KAS adds a lot of really interesting winches and containers that can stow small parts, like radial parachutes and solar panels, which makes EVA far more useful.
Kethane adds planetary fuels that can be mined and converted to become usable fuel, although the amount of fuel at a site isn't infinite, you can edit some files to add arbitrarily large amounts of fuel, I think.  Modding the parts yourself to also produce things like argon, hydrogen, or other mod-resources is also possible.
RemoteTech 2 has some interesting effects of handling science data transfer in that it demands a satellite network that links back to KSP to actually transmit science, and requires a satellite link to operate a probe.
Mechjeb 2 is your standard autopilot + engineer.
Kerbal Engineer is just a lot of information about your craft.

These are the ones that come to my mind and are popular or I use.  There's plenty others, especially since I avoid part packs and focus on mods that add new mechanics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 27, 2013, 01:05:09 am
Quote from: Sinlessmoon on November 27, 2013, 12:23:55 am
Alright guys, can you give me a run down of all the essential mods I need? As well as any hints or tips? I haven't fully devoted myself to playing the game, other than dabbling occasionally so any suggestions would be nice.

Planet Factory - adds a bunch of really hard to get to planets, a fun late game goal.

City lights and clouds - I can't play without this. Makes Kerbin look amazing, Laythe look stunning, and Eve look not like shit. Seriously. It makes Eve look like Venus, from the ground and space, it's awesome.

I hate part packs, so the only other mod I use is KAS. Oh, and the IVA's for the Mark 2 and Mark 3 cockpits, because I use IVA a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2013, 01:23:54 am
Quote from: Sinlessmoon on November 27, 2013, 12:23:55 am
Alright guys, can you give me a run down of all the essential mods I need? As well as any hints or tips? I haven't fully devoted myself to playing the game, other than dabbling occasionally so any suggestions would be nice.
There aren't really any "essential" mods. The base game can be quite fun and challenging as-is, especially if you only play occasionally. I'd only begin to expand it if you are feeling bored or limited by what it offers.

Some things like Enhanced Navball, Kerbal Engineer Redux, and the Mk2/Mk3 IVA views are nice to give the game a sense of completeness without changing it.

KAS (Kerbal Attachment System) and Kethane are great baseline additions to expand the amount of things to do on your missions to anywhere. They add few parts (for the most part), and, with some exceptions, fit in pretty well with stock parts.

FAR (Ferram Aerospace Research) and Deadly Reentry seriously change how the game plays - rockets have it easier, planes have it a little harder, and both need extra planning on reentry. The mods add next to no parts on their own, but pretty much require using a plugin such as Procedural Fairings, to keep your craft streamlined.

After that are the parts packs, mostly. A lot of people seem to use NovaPunch - a general expansion of rocketry parts. I very much like the Near Future Propulsion Pack - a mod focusing on a set of high-efficiency electric thrusters that is realistic and fits with the stock KSP theme, as well as the means to produce enough electricity to power said thrusters. There is also KSP Interstellar, a similar (in premise) mod that goes rather further with the whole "future propulsion" thing by adding a Warp Drive and assorted futuristic engines.

There are also less stock-fitting mods that are also popular, like the B9 Aerospace Pack, Infernal Robotics, Firespitter Propeller Parts Pack, the ever-controversial MechJeb, and an assortment of others.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 27, 2013, 07:28:14 am
Also get the Vanguard EVA parachutes. I use them to bail out of disastrous launches because I never use the 'revert to launch' option in career mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 27, 2013, 09:22:38 am
KAS and Remotetech may have problems. I've reported it to the Remotetech guy and hopefully things will be resolved. Hopefully KAS doesn't rebreak it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 27, 2013, 09:25:41 am
Or you can just use the radials and KAS.
And ninjaed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 27, 2013, 03:10:14 pm
Does this game always take 20 minutes to load when you have 10 mods?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 27, 2013, 03:12:37 pm
What mods?
The more parts there are the longer it takes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 27, 2013, 03:15:15 pm
Quote from: Putnam on November 27, 2013, 03:10:14 pm
Does this game always take 20 minutes to load when you have 10 mods?

All part mods? Then yes, probably.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 27, 2013, 04:13:39 pm
Out of all of them, 4 are part mods AFAIK.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 27, 2013, 04:14:41 pm
What partmods? B9?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 27, 2013, 04:18:42 pm
B9, Interstellar, Kethane, Procedural Fairings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 27, 2013, 04:42:52 pm
Mostly the first three then...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 27, 2013, 04:46:21 pm
B9 eats up a ton of memory. You can download lower res textures for it somewhere IIRC.

EDIT: If you have the Planet Factory mod, that eats up a fair amount of memory too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 27, 2013, 04:55:58 pm
The low res stock mod I think has a B9 pack, but those are all out of date and don't hit every part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on November 27, 2013, 05:01:45 pm
B9 comes with its own low-res.  It's included in the .zip as a different folder, where you just merge it and overwrite everything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 28, 2013, 03:31:42 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on November 27, 2013, 04:46:21 pm
B9 eats up a ton of memory. You can download lower res textures for it somewhere IIRC.

EDIT: If you have the Planet Factory mod, that eats up a fair amount of memory too.

I uninstalled Planet Factory specifically because it was already using 3 GB of memory before I installed Kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 12:43:49 pm
Is there a decent non-video guide to rendezvous and/or docking? because none seem to exist and I've been trying to rendezvous for over a fucking hour.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 30, 2013, 12:47:24 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 12:43:49 pm
Is there a decent non-video guide to rendezvous and/or docking? because none seem to exist and I've been trying to rendezvous for over a fucking hour.
After brute forcing it several times I just use mechjeb to set up the maneuver for me and I fly it manually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 30, 2013, 12:51:05 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 12:43:49 pm
Is there a decent non-video guide to rendezvous and/or docking? because none seem to exist and I've been trying to rendezvous for over a fucking hour.
Have you blown everything up yet?


And I think that the game itself may, perhaps, dunno have one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 30, 2013, 02:23:51 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 12:43:49 pm
Is there a decent non-video guide to rendezvous and/or docking? because none seem to exist and I've been trying to rendezvous for over a fucking hour.

How to rendezvous:
First, get into orbit around the same body as your target. Now find your target on the map, click on it and press "Select as target". Now get into a circular orbit that is parallel to your target's orbit (but not at the same altitude, that's a fucking stupid thing and people should stop recommending that). To get exactly parallel, do a tiny burn at the ascending or descending node. Now use a Hohmann transfer orbit (like you would to get to the Mun) to try to hit the target (a 10km closest distance will do fine). When you're done with the first transfer burn, put a marker node at the point of intersection and align your planned path to the target's path. Now write down (or memorize) the estimated burn time T_burn and turn your craft to the blue marker beforehand (word of warning ahead, we'll not actually be using the blue marker to burn). When you're approaching the target, click the green text above the navball until it shows "Target" instead of "Surface" or "Orbit". Then the yellow text and markers will show your speed relative to the target, not the body you're orbiting about. Turn to the yellow retrograde marker (if you did stuff right, it should be really close to the blue prograde marker), and at exactly T minus T_burn/2, burn to that yellow marker until you have 0 m/s relative velocity (displayed above the navball). Then turn your ship to almost directly face your target (one of the pink markers, be careful that you don't face exactly towards the target unless you like explosions), burn just a little bit, turn your ship around to the retrograde yellow marker, wait until your distance to the target starts to increase again, then burn back to 0 m/s relative velocity. Repeat until you have around 30 m distance. There, you have a rendezvous.


How to dock:
First, have a rendezvous with your target (obviously). Now focus on your docking ship, right-click on the target ship's docking port that you want to connect to and choose the "Target Docking Port" option.

If you don't have RCS thrusters:
First make sure that you have absolutely no observable relative velocity (try and make your yellow markers vanish). Switch to the target ship, select your docking ship as target and the target ship's own docking port as "Control from here", then turn the target ship towards the docking ship so the navball crosshairs line up exactly with the pink marker. Now switch back to the docking ship, select the target ship's docking port as target, select your own docking port to "Control from here", then turn your own ship exactly towards the target (the navball is your friend again). Now accelerate a fraction of a smidgeon, and your docking ship should slide exactly into the target docking port.

If you do have RCS thrusters and a RCS fuel tank:
Don't turn RCS on yet, but keep SAS on. Use WASDQE to rotate your ship so the docking ports are parallel. Now turn your view so you can see the back of your ship. Use Q and E to rotate your ship until D would turn your ship to the right. Now make sure that your ship is parallel to the other docking port again, and stop all rotation. Now turn RCS on. Don't switch to docking mode, it's not actually easier to use than staging mode. Now the IJKL buttons will accelerate your ship down, left, up and right respectively, and H and N will thrust your ship forwards and backwards respectively. Now simply move your ship in line with the docking port with IJKL (if you are on the wrong side of the target ship, you'll need to move to the other side first), cancel all sideways motion (the target ship's screen marker is your friend, look at how it moves to see how you are moving relative to it) and peck H to slowly float into the docking port. A word of advice here, take your damn time when using RCS translation: the more time you use, the less RCS fuel you'll need, and it's much easier to control that way.

Note: Even if you have RCS thrusters, you can still use the first method, or even a combination of both (first rotate both crafts, then use RCS to dock). That's probably the easiest method of all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on November 30, 2013, 02:32:44 pm
I've not tried them myself, but if a video tutorial isn't working, and text isn't clear enough:
http://kerbalspaceport.com/docking-tutorial/
http://kerbalspaceport.com/rendezvous-tutorial/
A couple of in-game tutorials have been made - in the same format as the tutorial missions included with the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 04:22:22 pm
I love you, Magma McFry. Bookmarked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 30, 2013, 09:35:36 pm
This Scott Manley video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ) taught me to rendezvous and dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sackhead on December 01, 2013, 03:45:04 am
Quote from: dragnar on November 30, 2013, 02:32:44 pm
I've not tried them myself, but if a video tutorial isn't working, and text isn't clear enough:
http://kerbalspaceport.com/docking-tutorial/
http://kerbalspaceport.com/rendezvous-tutorial/
A couple of in-game tutorials have been made - in the same format as the tutorial missions included with the game.
i used these they are awsome
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 01, 2013, 05:08:54 am
I am starting a new game with Mission Controller.
I got Kethane, FAR, Proc. Fairings, Enh. Navball and KAS

Any other suggestions that goes well with MC?


EDIT: I can't click the settings button with MC installed ???!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2013, 10:27:34 am
Mission Controller is not scaled for any mods. Don't end up with a negative balance. Make ships that can do multiple missions. Don't hesitate to use multiple packages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 01, 2013, 11:56:08 am
I dunno if playing in career mode was a mistake, coz i can't do the sputnik IV with my current tech.
I wonder if I can repeat some missions for science?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 01, 2013, 01:30:05 pm
So, I got bored trying to dock and decided to go for a Mun landing.

I managed to crash an unmanned probe into the mun by virtue of not seeing that the terrain was 3000 m above sea level, but my probe survived, albeit without solar panels and basically everything.

I decided to switch to some debris a bit further away, and it was an RCS thruster. It started falling trough the Mun.
It's still falling, I can't go to the space center without reverting my first ever mun crash, I can't do anything.
It's still falling, despite being outside kerbin's SOI. There's a constant "kerbin escape" marker on it, but it still shows as landed. Orbital velocity ~47km/s.

(http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4515133+_85b678d227923c8b12c10e9a0c587577.jpg)

E:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My orbit has stabilized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2013, 01:51:44 pm
Quote from: ank on December 01, 2013, 11:56:08 am
I dunno if playing in career mode was a mistake, coz i can't do the sputnik IV with my current tech.
I wonder if I can repeat some missions for science?

Only if they say repeatable. Like I said, more packages. There are at least 4, beyond stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 01, 2013, 04:18:17 pm
Quote from: Vattic on November 30, 2013, 09:35:36 pm
This Scott Manley video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ) taught me to rendezvous and dock.
A while of trial and error taught me how to dock. I killed some kermans trying to figure out what the nodes meant, but I figured it out.

Also, guess who finally made a spaceplane that can go places? I somehow managed to land one on Minmus, and return to Kerbin to land on the ice caps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 01, 2013, 06:55:25 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on December 01, 2013, 04:18:17 pm
Quote from: Vattic on November 30, 2013, 09:35:36 pm
This Scott Manley video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ) taught me to rendezvous and dock.
A while of trial and error taught me how to dock. I killed some kermans trying to figure out what the nodes meant, but I figured it out.

Also, guess who finally made a spaceplane that can go places? I somehow managed to land one on Minmus, and return to Kerbin to land on the ice caps.
I've made an SSTO but it's only barely able to get to orbit and back.   I eventually plan on making one that can get to my space stations, so I can actually do stuff with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 01, 2013, 08:18:51 pm
WE MUST FASHION A PLANE THAT CAN GO TO EELOO!
What it will actually do there, who knows BUT IT NEEDS TO GET THERE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on December 01, 2013, 08:36:53 pm
Quote from: BFEL on December 01, 2013, 08:18:51 pm
WE MUST FASHION A PLANE THAT CAN GO TO EELOO!
What it will actually do there, who knows BUT IT NEEDS TO GET THERE.

Its possible but beware the Kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on December 02, 2013, 06:35:27 am
Quote from: miauw62 on November 30, 2013, 04:22:22 pm
I love you, Magma McFry. Bookmarked.
Great post from Magma MCFry indeed.

I would add one thing that could ease some frustrations while trying to dock slowly.

Your relative position to the target ship matters, especially in low orbit. (due to KSPhysics, any ship in orbit rotate one rotation per orbit which can make docking difficult).
If you start from pro/retrograde position (like the green maneuver markers), the ship you are trying to dock will rotate (as bad as 12deg per minute in LKO) which can make long docking approach hard since you have to correct the ship you are trying to dock constantly.
Starting radial in/out (like blue maneuver markers) will make not only the target rotate but will also drift you a little outward and to the side.
When starting from top or bottom of target ship (normal/anti-normal - violet markers) you get no relative rotation and slight drift will be only toward your target.

TL/DR: Approach your targets from above or below to counter your target ship intrinsic rotation due to orbital KSPhysics. Or do docking in high orbit (high orbital period).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 08:00:46 am
If the tidal forces are that strong, that could indeed be a problem; I never actually did an LKO docking before since I didn't know whether this would happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 02:53:24 pm
it is not tidal forces but more a case of the planet being so small you can never truly consider the orbit locally linear as an approximation

anyway just sticking the docking port to the north of the navball (where N line is at 0 deg elevation) should work for most low inclination orbits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nao on December 02, 2013, 03:04:48 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 08:00:46 am
If the tidal forces are that strong, that could indeed be a problem; I never actually did an LKO docking before since I didn't know whether this would happen.
Haha, the lack of tidal forces is the biggest problem here. When crafts are put "on rails" (or stopped on SAS) they become fixed to global reference point. As they rotate around a body, they point in one direction, that's why if you start prograde and wait 1/2 orbit you will face retrograde.

If there are two crafts they will rotate the same way. Just like for example rotating hands. Placing them on top of each other is the only way to make them face the same side constantly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 03:12:00 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 02:53:24 pm
it is not tidal forces but more a case of the planet being so small you can never truly consider the orbit locally linear as an approximation
Technically that's because the gravitation accelerates the crafts by different vectors, which is exactly what tidal forces are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 02, 2013, 04:09:51 pm
I'm thinking about making an orbital missile battery using stock parts.

I will let y'all know how it goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 04:27:14 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 03:12:00 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 02:53:24 pm
it is not tidal forces but more a case of the planet being so small you can never truly consider the orbit locally linear as an approximation
Technically that's because the gravitation accelerates the crafts by different vectors, which is exactly what tidal forces are.

tidal force would make an asymmetrical craft to shift with the weightier part on the planet side, not what you see in ksp - it was this way before they abstracted that away, before you got all pieces affected by gravity independently but it was removed, now gravity is applied to the center of mass and thus the craft doesn't rotate anymore by gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 05:40:11 pm
I'm not referring to tidal forces on a single object, but to the tidal forces acting on the constellation of two separate crafts (which causes them to move relative to each other).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 06:21:14 pm
they move relative to each other because they have different orbits - effect enhanced by the orbits being so small.

but seems like you formed your opinion so meh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 02, 2013, 06:54:57 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 02, 2013, 06:21:14 pm
they move relative to each other because they have different orbits - effect enhanced by the orbits being so small.

but seems like you formed your opinion so meh.
That's exactly the same reason as mine, just from Kerbin's point of reference instead of the crafts' points.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 02, 2013, 11:31:12 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on December 02, 2013, 04:09:51 pm
I'm thinking about making an orbital missile battery using stock parts.

I will let y'all know how it goes.
It went so fucking terribly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 03, 2013, 01:31:35 am
Got a screenie of the carnage?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on December 03, 2013, 03:33:48 pm
I have successfully constructed a functioning rover IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS entirely out of KAS-grabbable parts.

(http://img.ie/images/pcvya_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/pcvya.png.html)

(Tubes are from Bavarian Aerospace (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52139).)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 04, 2013, 07:59:48 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on December 03, 2013, 01:31:35 am
Got a screenie of the carnage?
Nah. I usually don't take screenshots except for when I'm doing succession games.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on December 04, 2013, 02:53:31 pm
KSP 0.23 is in experimentals! The average time between experimentals and release is nine days, and guess what's in nine days? Kerbalkon. Coincidence? I think not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 04, 2013, 03:46:18 pm
I made a module full of escape pods for my MKO space station. Then I hopped into one and landed it on the Mun, with barely enough RCS fuel left to make it back to Mun orbit. So I threw together a refueling mission and refueled the escape pod, then sent it back to the space station and docked there again. Next I'll put another similar space station around the Mun so I can simply use the escape pods to refuel each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 04, 2013, 03:56:08 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 04, 2013, 02:53:31 pm
KSP 0.23 is in experimentals! The average time between experimentals and release is nine days, and guess what's in nine days? Kerbalkon. Coincidence? I think not.

What is good in the new update, besides transmission rebalancing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 04, 2013, 04:38:16 pm
God dammit, so much for the modding I wanted to make.
I'll wait a bit I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 04, 2013, 04:39:37 pm
Quote from: ank on December 04, 2013, 03:56:08 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 04, 2013, 02:53:31 pm
KSP 0.23 is in experimentals! The average time between experimentals and release is nine days, and guess what's in nine days? Kerbalkon. Coincidence? I think not.

What is good in the new update, besides transmission rebalancing?

Better tooltips that don't fill the whole screen in some cases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2013, 06:51:21 pm
And you can right click to tune parts in the vab/sph.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 04, 2013, 08:59:40 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2013, 06:51:21 pm
And you can right click to tune parts in the vab/sph.
tune how?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 04, 2013, 09:04:11 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 04, 2013, 08:59:40 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2013, 06:51:21 pm
And you can right click to tune parts in the vab/sph.
tune how?
Like tweaking how far engine gimballing is allowed, probably limit some engines to a percentage of their thrust, stuff like that.  Generally "the part should be able to do X in real life, now there's an interface for that in KSP."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 04, 2013, 09:07:45 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 04, 2013, 09:04:11 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 04, 2013, 08:59:40 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 04, 2013, 06:51:21 pm
And you can right click to tune parts in the vab/sph.
tune how?
Like tweaking how far engine gimballing is allowed, probably limit some engines to a percentage of their thrust, stuff like that.  Generally "the part should be able to do X in real life, now there's an interface for that in KSP."
I can only imagine what the modders will do with this. Modular fuel system mod already does that to some extent but iirc its a bit hacky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 05, 2013, 08:20:06 am
Been playing a bit with FAR installed. I've found that my normal designs are waaay too top heavy and I've started putting my payload on the bottom or in the middle of the rocket... looks odd but it works very well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 05, 2013, 09:33:49 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 05, 2013, 08:20:06 am
Been playing a bit with FAR installed. I've found that my normal designs are waaay too top heavy and I've started putting my payload on the bottom or in the middle of the rocket... looks odd but it works very well.

I have found that the important thing with FAR is to have lots of drag on the tail, like intakes for a plane, and wings for rockets. It will keep the craft stable in the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 05, 2013, 03:37:59 pm
Quote from: ank on December 05, 2013, 09:33:49 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 05, 2013, 08:20:06 am
Been playing a bit with FAR installed. I've found that my normal designs are waaay too top heavy and I've started putting my payload on the bottom or in the middle of the rocket... looks odd but it works very well.

I have found that the important thing with FAR is to have lots of drag on the tail, like intakes for a plane, and wings for rockets. It will keep the craft stable in the atmosphere.
I've had good results as long as I keep the CoL in front of the CoM and the CoT as close as possible to the CoM as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 06, 2013, 11:27:05 am
The thing is, that drag has no effect on the CoL, which means you can't use CoL alone to design the ship.
I found out about this by placing a lot of air intakes on the front, and I made my plane very flip-happy, because it wanted to fly backwards. removing the air intakes made it more stable, but putting the intakes back on, this time on the rear of the plane, made it super-stable.
No change was made to the CoL at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 09, 2013, 06:35:47 am
All of my yes.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is !!SCIENCE!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PyroDesu on December 09, 2013, 06:59:26 am
I notice there has been talk in here of Orion, but no real Orion has ever been had.

Well, we do have one, here: Behold, the most dwarven of propulsion systems. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom/page1)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 09, 2013, 09:26:29 am
We've linked that before.


:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 09, 2013, 11:26:45 am
I love on about p102 where Winchell Chung plays with the numbers for using a Tsar Bomba for interplanetary transits.

40m pusher plate.  my gord.

I always wondered if there was a way to get more efficiency from your payload by detonating it inside a bell instead of behind a pusher plate, but I guess we lack the material science to do that in a mass-efficient way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2013, 11:37:40 am
 I am looking at the wiki and the push plate is not bell shaped because the bomb is: the bomb casing encourages the mass ejection in the direction of the plate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 09, 2013, 01:00:33 pm
So here's a challenge:

Kerbal Astronomers are really, really sure this time. In exactly [X] years, a huge asteroid will strike Kerbin, obliterating the planet. Top scientists then added, "It'll look really, really cool." Additionally, all kerbals on the planet would die. Your mission: get as many kerbals as possible off-planet to Lathe, where astronomers agree they'll have the best view. And they won't be destroyed in a supersonic pressure wave.

As an open-ended mission, it's more of a competition to see how many kerbals you can rescue. A target number of 200 would be appropriate, if straining on any PC.

X can be 50 for Easy, 20 for Medium, 10 for Hard, and 2 for Manley. If you play in Career mode and start with 0 science, then increase the difficulty by one (10 years is pretty Manley for that).

Suggested mods: Kethane, Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Additional challengers: Add life-support needs so your ships have to carry oxygen on the trip over. Require substantial habitats on Lathe instead of just a single seat each. Assume that each ship takes some time to build. Never, ever revert flights.

I think the only way to achiever Manley Mode is to launch an entire armada all at once. It would take some pretty handsome juggling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 09, 2013, 01:04:49 pm
Add the alarm clock to the mod list and I am game
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 09, 2013, 01:13:02 pm
Sounds pretty easy if you just get everyone into orbit, then send them off on their trajectories one at a time. After all, you don't have to stay with them the whole time, you can use that 2-5 year transfer time to work on other missions instead of timewarping it away.

I made a rig that can get 37 Kerbals into orbit at once (tragically collided with Laythe), though it would need a new propulsion system as currently it runs on the solar sails mod. But the rest of it is 100% stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:04:29 pm
This happened. (http://imgur.com/a/jsbCj)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:07:24 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:04:29 pm
This happened. (http://imgur.com/a/jsbCj)

The first time that happened with KAS I panicked and thought I did something horrible wrong. Luckily, debris just counts as the last "ship" it was on. Jeb counts as a "ship" so it was his debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:19:17 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:07:24 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:04:29 pm
This happened. (http://imgur.com/a/jsbCj)

The first time that happened with KAS I panicked and thought I did something horrible wrong. Luckily, debris just counts as the last "ship" it was on. Jeb counts as a "ship" so it was his debris.
Yeah but Jeb didn't actually leave the pod. Ever. There weren't any of these things on my ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:26:09 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:19:17 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:07:24 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:04:29 pm
This happened. (http://imgur.com/a/jsbCj)

The first time that happened with KAS I panicked and thought I did something horrible wrong. Luckily, debris just counts as the last "ship" it was on. Jeb counts as a "ship" so it was his debris.
Yeah but Jeb didn't actually leave the pod. Ever. There weren't any of these things on my ship.

What the... Jeb has ascended into godhood apparently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 10, 2013, 05:08:43 pm
I was doing some aerodynamic science with FAR and a few part mods to determine the best parts to use to decrease a rocket's drag and the results are quite shocking.

The most aerodynamic part I found was the stock circular intake. Even open, the intake handily beat all the nosecones and fairings I tested. When it was closed, it got even more aerodynamic, adding a further 10 km of height to my test rocket's flight. The next closest thing was also an intake, this time from B9 Aerospace.

So if you're using FAR, don't bother messing around with nosecones and fairings, just put an intake on top of your rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 10, 2013, 09:26:12 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:26:09 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:19:17 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 10, 2013, 02:07:24 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 10, 2013, 02:04:29 pm
This happened. (http://imgur.com/a/jsbCj)

The first time that happened with KAS I panicked and thought I did something horrible wrong. Luckily, debris just counts as the last "ship" it was on. Jeb counts as a "ship" so it was his debris.
Yeah but Jeb didn't actually leave the pod. Ever. There weren't any of these things on my ship.

What the... Jeb has ascended into godhood apparently.
Is that "Tomato" debris I see?
Will I soon become a tiny generator as well?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 10, 2013, 09:58:18 pm
Nah, it's spacecraft parts. It's just an AluminumTomato
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 11, 2013, 06:31:36 am
All my current rockets are named Tomato because I couldn't come up with a better name.
Also I did my first docking ever :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vicomt on December 11, 2013, 06:38:38 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 11, 2013, 06:31:36 am
All my current rockets are named Tomato because I couldn't come up with a better name.
Also I did my first docking ever :D

I did my first docking ever last night as well. such a good feeling when all of a sudden, :screenshift:, oh yeah, it's all connected :D
I was watching the docking cam numbers so intensely I almost didn't realise I'd docked.

:brofist:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 11, 2013, 02:11:56 pm
I remain unable to land on the Mun, tough. First attempted manned Mun landing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All Kerbals are alive, solar panels are dead, but I brought a spare solar panel in one of those KAS containers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

From left to right, Angee, Jebediah and Hadlan Kerman. The first Kerbals to set foot on the Mun. Angee is the couragous guy, Jeb is Jeb and Hadlan is the stupid guy.
I'll probably let them rot on the Mun until I can figure out how to properly do a rescue mission. At least their ship is somewhat powered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on December 11, 2013, 02:30:35 pm
Very Pic
Much Nothing
So Curious
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 11, 2013, 02:37:15 pm
Jeb wants to sit around a campfire until help arrives. But it's a bit difficult to do a campfire without an atmosphere. So he retrieves the thermonuclear battery and whacks it until it starts leaking incandescent particles. Now there's a "fire"...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on December 11, 2013, 05:05:57 pm
Kerbalkon schedule posted! (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60806-KerbalKon-Schedule-Videos)

Over 24 hours of streams, and the release of 0.23! Should be pretty interesting.

EDIT: Apparently it's not getting released during Kerbalkon, but next Tuesday. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/11/kerbal-space-program-update-23-hits-tuesday-december-16/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 11, 2013, 07:03:34 pm
B9 aerospace has absolutely beautiful parts, and an equally beautiful variety. Since I've pretty much mastered the basics of plane making in vanilla KSP, I thought I'd give it a try.

However my "nope" meter has filled all the way by now. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but the planes I try to built with this have never gotten off the ground as of yet. They always either violently turn to the left, or tip increasingly fast left to right until both sides slam into the ground. I didn't make them any different than how I made my usual planes.

Advice plox?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 11, 2013, 08:06:25 pm
Perhaps B9 is designed to work with FAR?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 11, 2013, 08:40:18 pm
Part of the problem is that B9 parts are incredibly heavy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on December 11, 2013, 11:21:43 pm
Yea I found that out too.  Notice that the smallest B9 wing is bigger than ALL the vanilla wings?   ...Yea...

You need lots of wing surface to get those in the air, not only that, you may want to double or even triple up on the landing gear.  Believe it or not they have a weight tolerance, and you may be veering to side to side because one of your wheels have buckled under the weight. (not sure if buckling is the right word, it's kinda like the weight causes them to behave abnormally) I had good luck with adding spacetape to the wheels, as well as placing 2 side by side where on a smaller plane I would only put one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 11, 2013, 11:41:06 pm
I believe B9 includes its own set of wheels too?  It basically seeks to replace all the stock aviation parts with its own, which is... eh...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 12, 2013, 12:29:19 am
Yeah, landing gear will do that to you. Sometimes it's because the gear themselves wobble under the weight, sometimes it's because the jet 'bounces' on the runway -just enough- to take one side up, causing the veer. Runway veering is my nemesis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 12, 2013, 03:26:36 pm
Its more like that B9 is attempting to introduce spaceplane parts that cant be used in rockets, while the stock aircraft parts work better for rockets. Heck, the stock landing gear is basically just leftover rover wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 14, 2013, 09:26:43 am
 0.23 stuff! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT6ap6FYyxs)

SCIENCE! lab!

Sabre engine!
Science log!
Tweakables!
Minmus biomes!
Less memory usage/lag!

Yaaaaaaaaay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 14, 2013, 09:48:26 am
I've been watching kerbalkon off and on at twitch. C7 made some crazy stuff with tweaks. Fuel balancing will be a bigger deal than ever before. Good thing there's already a mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 10:08:51 am
I think I am most excited about the RAPIER engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2013, 11:41:16 am
As a person who loves solid rockets, I am most excited about the fact that SRBs become even more useful with the ability to elongiate their burn time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 14, 2013, 11:43:52 am
Quote from: Krevsin on December 14, 2013, 11:41:16 am
As a person who loves solid rockets, I am most excited about the fact that SRBs become even more useful with the ability to elongiate their burn time.
You can do that?
So much energy is wasted fighting air resistance when you strap a giant stage of SRBs to a small craft.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 11:46:37 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on December 14, 2013, 11:43:52 am
Quote from: Krevsin on December 14, 2013, 11:41:16 am
As a person who loves solid rockets, I am most excited about the fact that SRBs become even more useful with the ability to elongiate their burn time.
You can do that?
So much energy is wasted fighting air resistance when you strap a giant stage of SRBs to a small craft.
You can easily get around this by staging them intelligently though. It will be nice to tweak the burn times and TWR but just have only a few burn at once and you won't waste so much power.

I did an all-srb launch platform before which never exceeded terminal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 14, 2013, 04:07:11 pm
/rant
in their quest to appeal casual player (which will probably never happen, I don't see people casually learning orbital mechanics) they are going toward a dumber and dumber game.

I hate having to rely on mods. Mostly because every mod developer has to add a thousand of part to add just one feature, meaning to have a basig interesting game you have to clutter the menu with dozen useless parts that only works in combination with others.
/rant
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:08:25 pm
Reasoning?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 14, 2013, 04:13:01 pm
How is the game becoming more casual? O_o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 14, 2013, 04:15:01 pm
Probably talking about the automatic swapover for the dual fuel source engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 14, 2013, 04:17:08 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:08:25 pm
Reasoning?

to sum up:

science tree progression as a tutorial for new players
axing of feature too complex like resources (probably will sneak back later in a rewamped form but forget about this http://i.imgur.com/lGlWdyn.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 14, 2013, 04:18:39 pm
Whats wrong with progression?

ANd they are getting rid of resources?!?!?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 04:19:23 pm
When did they say they are getting rid of resources? Do you have a source?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 14, 2013, 04:21:04 pm
Was that flow chart even a thing acknowledged by the devs?

Further, what evidence is there that it's been axed?
And why is having a science tree a BAD thing?  Weren't we gunning for career mode?

MORE IMPORTANTLY why is this a bad thing even if it is a tutorial?  Do you... just not want more people playing?  The only reason to actively deny the inclusion of a tutorial is to actively bar new players from entering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:21:41 pm
They've only literally done the exact opposite. The next version, for example, has finite eva propellant.

EDIT: Oh yeah, also:

Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 04:19:23 pm
When did they say they are getting rid of resources? Do you have a source?

They never said this. They said they were putting it on hold until after multiplayer.

Resources here refers to mining stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 14, 2013, 04:28:46 pm
Wait, are they making a legit multiplayer now, and not just the hacky mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:29:14 pm
Well, not now, but by the end of next year, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 04:42:58 pm
so LoSboccacc's entire little rant is false.

gotya
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 14, 2013, 04:46:13 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2013, 04:42:58 pm
so LoSboccacc's entire little rant is false.

gotya
Judging from Kerbal Rocket Surgery, I'm guessing he's drunk.

Let's be honest: Realism aside, I don't particularly WANT to dick around in the atmosphere before having to forget plane flight and learn orbital mechanics. I would at least want SRBs.
/me bops LoSobboccacc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 14, 2013, 04:54:50 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 14, 2013, 04:28:46 pm
Wait, are they making a legit multiplayer now, and not just the hacky mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:55:36 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 04:29:14 pm
Well, not now, but by the end of next year, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 14, 2013, 04:58:47 pm
I'd like a link and source for that, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2013, 05:01:16 pm
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/12/kerbal-space-program-committed-to-multiplayer-career-and-sandbox-modes/

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on December 14, 2013, 05:04:46 pm
Yeah, if I learned anything from Kerbal Rocket Surgery, it's that having to start of with planes is A) kind of a drag and B) harder than just making rockets, which I kind of already knew.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on December 14, 2013, 05:06:13 pm
Quote from: Sensei on December 14, 2013, 05:04:46 pm
Yeah, if I learned anything from Kerbal Rocket Surgery, it's that having to start of with planes is A) kind of a drag and B) harder than just making rockets, which I kind of already knew.

iseewhatyoudidthere
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Carnwennan on December 15, 2013, 04:10:30 pm
Managed to get a Mun flyby (or five) on my no-transmission, no-reload campaign. For some reason, getting rockets off the ground is so much harder with FAR, even though the page says it is easier
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2013, 04:27:58 pm
All you really need with FAR are some fairings and tail stabilizers (AV-R8s). The fairings aren't quite so necessary. After that, gravity turning is just tapping slightly to the right, at which point the stabilizers combined with your gravitational trajectory will give you a good gravity turn without any need for further control.

The thing about FAR is that it's nearly impossible to reach terminal velocity in the atmosphere with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 15, 2013, 05:00:53 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 15, 2013, 04:27:58 pm
The thing about FAR is that it's nearly impossible to reach terminal velocity in the atmosphere with it.
Heh heh heh...

you aren't using the KSPI mod with antimatter reactors and thermal rockets are you? Heh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2013, 05:09:51 pm
Oh, I am. I just haven't used antimatter reactors yet :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 15, 2013, 05:18:47 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 15, 2013, 05:09:51 pm
Oh, I am. I just haven't used antimatter reactors yet :P
Yeah...


(http://i.imgur.com/cVHMT5Sl.png) (http://imgur.com/cVHMT5S)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on December 15, 2013, 05:22:36 pm
So I'm curious: Is there a mod that makes more of the cockpits useable from the interior view? In particular the Mk2 and Mk3 airplane cockpits are annoying because they look like they have windows, but you go inside and it's just a tin can.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 15, 2013, 05:27:29 pm
Quote from: Sensei on December 15, 2013, 05:22:36 pm
So I'm curious: Is there a mod that makes more of the cockpits useable from the interior view? In particular the Mk2 and Mk3 airplane cockpits are annoying because they look like they have windows, but you go inside and it's just a tin can.

The windows are just painted on, you know, for the photo-ops!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 15, 2013, 05:34:15 pm
One of the problems on my latest physics homework sheet asked me to figure out the perikerbol velocity of a Kerbin-Duna Hohmann orbit. Literally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 15, 2013, 05:40:41 pm
It makes sense, doesn't it? Information on stuff like that is as easily accessible as real-world data thanks to the sheer volume of KSP players, and there's a good chance the people doing the homework are a bit more familiar with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 15, 2013, 05:53:38 pm
What area are you in? I want to move there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 15, 2013, 06:02:21 pm
The problem was actually asking to deduce the formula for that velocity, as in v1 = sqrt(2*G*M/(rK*(1+rK/rD))), without requiring any explicit numbers. It didn't actually require googling KSP or even knowing about it. At least Jeb was mentioned.

Quote from: Aseaheru on December 15, 2013, 05:53:38 pm
What area are you in? I want to move there.
Karlsruhe, Germany. Brush up on your German. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 16, 2013, 07:36:13 am
I hope you mentionned the need for more boosters and struts in your answer... :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 16, 2013, 01:46:52 pm
Quote from: Sensei on December 15, 2013, 05:22:36 pm
So I'm curious: Is there a mod that makes more of the cockpits useable from the interior view? In particular the Mk2 and Mk3 airplane cockpits are annoying because they look like they have windows, but you go inside and it's just a tin can.
Yes, there are and they look quite good.
http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk2cockpitinternals/

http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk3-cockpit-internals/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 16, 2013, 01:53:51 pm
Quote from: Sensei on December 15, 2013, 05:22:36 pm
So I'm curious: Is there a mod that makes more of the cockpits useable from the interior view? In particular the Mk2 and Mk3 airplane cockpits are annoying because they look like they have windows, but you go inside and it's just a tin can.

I highly recommend this mod. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk2cockpitinternals/)

Works perfectly and matches the art style quite well.

Edit: dang it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 16, 2013, 02:30:43 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 15, 2013, 04:27:58 pm
The thing about FAR is that it's nearly impossible to reach terminal velocity in the atmosphere with it.

depends on your definition of terminal velocity, I guess
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2013, 02:33:18 pm
Terminal velocity is the speed where drag is an equal force to gravity, IIRC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 16, 2013, 02:41:20 pm
Isn't terminal velocity the speed where you literally cannot go any faster because of drag?

Either way, I managed to make my first plane ever that takes off, wooo!
The first test had me going off the side of the runway and scraping my right wings off, and then flying around for 30 seconds while desperately trying to control it.
The second "test" has me going to the north pole. I'm about to land. Wish me luck!

(Also it flies like a cornered rat: if you don't keep a firm grip on it it spins uncontrollably and it's very hard to regain control)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 16, 2013, 02:43:56 pm
Yeah. Well, it's usually drag. I think it can be pretty much any time where your acceleration forward cannot overcome the acceleration backward, leading to an acceleration of 0 and an unchanging velocity. :3

So falling, it's drag against gravity. In planes, it's the engine against drag. And in rockets, same thing, engine against drag.

It's usually drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 16, 2013, 02:54:18 pm
I HAVE SUCCESFULLY LANDED ON THE NORTH POLE.
WOOOOO
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2013, 02:58:06 pm
0.23's out tomorrow
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 16, 2013, 03:07:08 pm
How do you slow a plane down when it's landing? I got stuck at a permanent 2.5 m/s speed while landing. I lowered my front landing gear to break the plane apart to stop ;_;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 16, 2013, 03:20:30 pm
B should brake, otherwise the brake icon under the landing gear icon, near the altimeter
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 16, 2013, 03:22:50 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 16, 2013, 03:07:08 pm
How do you slow a plane down when it's landing? I got stuck at a permanent 2.5 m/s speed while landing. I lowered my front landing gear to break the plane apart to stop ;_;
Cut the engine entirely, and glide, usually facing 10 degrees upward.  If you don't decelerate, then you have an infinite glider and physics would like to have a word with you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 16, 2013, 03:56:00 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 16, 2013, 02:58:06 pm
0.23's out tomorrow
YESYESYESYESYESYES

I watched a video of it, because Danny liked it and it appeared on my subscription feed. The new engine is sexy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 16, 2013, 04:11:41 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 16, 2013, 03:22:50 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 16, 2013, 03:07:08 pm
How do you slow a plane down when it's landing? I got stuck at a permanent 2.5 m/s speed while landing. I lowered my front landing gear to break the plane apart to stop ;_;
Cut the engine entirely, and glide, usually facing 10 degrees upward.  If you don't decelerate, then you have an infinite glider and physics would like to have a word with you.

if you're already on the ground, "B" for brakes or there's a mouse click able button near the top to lock them. A lot of times crafts do want to keep slowly rolling on the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 16, 2013, 08:58:50 pm
 I'll just leave this here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIy6BJIMykM)
and hide
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 16, 2013, 09:06:49 pm
I was okay with it until 0:20.
Then... I don't even know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 16, 2013, 09:09:27 pm
Quote from: Twi on December 16, 2013, 08:58:50 pm
I'll just leave this here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIy6BJIMykM)
and hide

~Always I wanna be with you and make believe with you~
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 16, 2013, 10:47:46 pm
wow.  just wow.

I thought it might have been stock, until it got into orbit and started using an aerospike to fly around without atmosphere.  The custom science messages were a nice touch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 16, 2013, 11:00:28 pm
So there's some drama about how the resource system is being reconsidered.

I honestly don't mind. I have to say, I really want resources to be in the game, but simply adding more parts and having something that's just a big spaceship complete with Blutonium Refinery and everything isn't the best idea.

I would prefer if you could build new space centers, complete with hex-shaped tiles, and have mines, refineries, and other things as chunks that connect together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 16, 2013, 11:02:49 pm
Link to the llama?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2013, 11:38:25 pm
HarvesteR's word on it (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61712-How-important-is-a-resource-system-to-you?p=843999&viewfull=1#post843999).

Also, there was some drama no more than two pages ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 17, 2013, 12:36:54 am
Quote from: puke on December 16, 2013, 10:47:46 pm
wow.  just wow.

I thought it might have been stock, until it got into orbit and started using an aerospike to fly around without atmosphere.  The custom science messages were a nice touch.
But aerospikes don't need atmosphere. That was entirely stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 17, 2013, 05:43:02 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 17, 2013, 12:36:54 am
Quote from: puke on December 16, 2013, 10:47:46 pm
wow.  just wow.

I thought it might have been stock, until it got into orbit and started using an aerospike to fly around without atmosphere.  The custom science messages were a nice touch.
But aerospikes don't need atmosphere. That was entirely stock.
Yup. They use oxydizer now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 17, 2013, 06:58:38 am
Quote from: greatorder on December 17, 2013, 06:52:33 am
I thought they always used oxidiser?
Pretty sure they always have
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Yolan on December 17, 2013, 07:12:14 am
Been enjoying this game for the last week.

Story

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thoughts

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 17, 2013, 02:00:34 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 17, 2013, 12:36:54 am
But aerospikes don't need atmosphere. That was entirely stock.

ORLY!  So they don't use intake air at all?  I has been trying to spaceplane incorrectly!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 17, 2013, 04:04:06 pm
The KSP twitter says .23 is up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 17, 2013, 04:56:52 pm
Well, Scott Manley already had a video up for several hours already, so I guess it does...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 17, 2013, 05:05:23 pm
I am noticing a very nice performance increase, even using a bunch of mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
They upgraded to Unity 4.22.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 17, 2013, 06:10:04 pm
and compressed textures, which I think has the larger impact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 17, 2013, 06:35:41 pm
I'm liking the new science approach. Less grinding, and more of a challenge and planning ahead (ok, I'm going to encounter X un-goo'd biomes so I should take X goo canisters).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 17, 2013, 06:44:11 pm
Internet is being annoying, KSP_data/Sharedassets5.assets doesn't want to download.
Excuse me while I bash my head in rage waiting for a small file to download.

EDIT: THIS ONE FILE HAS BEEN TAKING OVER AN HOUR TO DOWNLOAD. EVERY OTHER FILE WORKED FINE. SO IS EVERY WEBSITE. BUT THIS ONE LITTLE FILE IS PULLING A SCARED TURTLE. AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Theodolus on December 17, 2013, 07:24:07 pm
To be fair, that file is roughly 333MB. Yes, it shouldn't take that long, but compared to the other .assets files it's pretty large. sharedassets2.assets is the second largest at 85MB for reference. I was trying to upload my copy to dropbox, but it's going to take longer than I have left at work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 17, 2013, 07:27:18 pm
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.

Steam is having a hissy fit. It thinks I don't have a connection, yet, as I am posting this, I obviously do.. Time to restart the computer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 17, 2013, 07:30:43 pm
Heh, bro. Steam goes down every so often like that for everyone, it's usually pretty quick. Dunno if it's a server update or accidental, but it's a known factor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 17, 2013, 07:34:54 pm
Quote from: Theodolus on December 17, 2013, 07:24:07 pm
To be fair, that file is roughly 333MB. Yes, it shouldn't take that long, but compared to the other .assets files it's pretty large. sharedassets2.assets is the second largest at 85MB for reference. I was trying to upload my copy to dropbox, but it's going to take longer than I have left at work.
Yep, I've downloaded files bigger than that in about 10 minutes.

The launcher disconnected after another 20 minutes.
Shared assets 5 was at 25% after that.
Screw you, DL rush.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 17, 2013, 07:37:04 pm
Quote from: Descan on December 17, 2013, 07:30:43 pm
Heh, bro. Steam goes down every so often like that for everyone, it's usually pretty quick. Dunno if it's a server update or accidental, but it's a known factor.
Huh, really? Never heard about that.

You learn something new every day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 17, 2013, 07:41:29 pm
Yeah. I can confirm that my steam was down in the same timeframe that you posted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on December 17, 2013, 08:49:49 pm
Squad's patcher has always been laughably useless. I usually just download the full game again after every patch, it's faster...

I gave it a go again in the hopes that it wouldn't be terrible, but it still is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 17, 2013, 09:07:07 pm
steam updated mine for me
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 17, 2013, 09:12:51 pm
Quote from: Kanil on December 17, 2013, 08:49:49 pm
Squad's patcher has always been laughably useless. I usually just download the full game again after every patch, it's faster...

I gave it a go again in the hopes that it wouldn't be terrible, but it still is.
Well! That's certainly good to know.

That file is still downloading for me at a cheetah's pace of about 20 KB per second. 75%.

Next time eat a salad, Squad Patcher. I won't be using you until you do.

EDIT: Huh. After I posted that, my connection rate sped right up. It's finished. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2013, 09:30:27 pm
I switched to Steam, so I opened it right as I was aware the update was out and it was updated already :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 17, 2013, 10:45:32 pm
You crazy city folk and your crazy not-terrible internet connections... This is going to take a while, as I'm installing a fresh copy on my new harddrive. :P

But while I wait; on the old drive, I made an enormous landing craft meant to plop 36 kerbals down on Laythe. Inspired by the "save as many kerbals as you can by transferring them to laythe in X timeframe" challenge somebody posted. It's basically 9 hitchhiker modules. One in the center, eight surrounding that, supported off the ground by the shorter of the large rectangular strut segments, with ladders descending those segments to get into and out of the modules. Lot of parachutes, but it lands safely from a low to mid kerbin orbit. Not easy to get it into orbit, I tell you what.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2013, 11:25:28 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on December 17, 2013, 10:45:32 pm
You crazy city folk and your crazy not-terrible internet connections...

How terrible? I get 512 kb/s and I get more than 500 ping astonishingly often...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 17, 2013, 11:51:10 pm
Average around 25kb/s or something through steam, occasionally get up to 380kb/s for a brief stint, but anything above 50 won't last more than a few seconds. Ping is usually pretty variable, too, but for the most part it stays well over 700. Doesn't really affect KSP if I don't need to update something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2013, 11:59:17 pm
Ah, yeah, pretty bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 18, 2013, 12:22:24 am
So folks, anyone noticing substantial performance improvements? Looks like I'll be in the bad boat this version; it's pretty slow for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eclectic Wizard on December 18, 2013, 03:21:33 am
What's so cool about this update? It seems boring..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 18, 2013, 03:25:16 am
Quote from: Eclectic Wizard on December 18, 2013, 03:21:33 am
What's so cool about this update? It seems boring..

Right click a built part in the VAB.

Also, about all the resources drama: this just means that mod makers can finally get to it. Kethane, for example, has been holding off on doing its thing because the makers have been in constant fear of being made obsolete--something that is clear is not going to happen soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 18, 2013, 03:39:39 am
Well then, I just wish I could get this update. My game isn't prompting me for it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 18, 2013, 06:43:29 am
Quote from: Eclectic Wizard on December 18, 2013, 03:21:33 am
What's so cool about this update? It seems boring..
Aside from the nice performance and backend improvements, you can now rightclick parts on your rocket while in the VAB to set different things. You can launch empty fuel cans or drain the oxidizer out of a rocket stage that is using only jet or other fuel burning engines. You can set parachute's deployment altitude as well!

Science collection was overhauled so that most experiments have a maximum recoverable science for transmission and you must return the samples to get the rest.

Also the R.A.P.I.E.R. engine is excellent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 18, 2013, 08:44:26 am
Remember the KSP problem in my physics course? Turns out nobody even knew about KSP, they thought the names in the problem description were just random or something. Well, I brought my laptop to that class (complete with an ongoing flight like the one in the problem), and now they know about KSP. Too bad everyone had to leave before I had time to land Jeb on Duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:26:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
SRBs for sure.  Being able to limit to half or quarter throttle and have them burn a command pod into low orbit is delicious.  Fuel loadout is also decent, just need to figure the best balance of draining half the oxidizer to streamline a spaceplane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 09:53:50 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:26:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
SRBs for sure.  Being able to limit to half or quarter throttle and have them burn a command pod into low orbit is delicious.  Fuel loadout is also decent, just need to figure the best balance of draining half the oxidizer to streamline a spaceplane.
*drools*
You can adjust SRB's?
* IronTomato has begun a mysterious construction!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:59:04 am
Quote from: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 09:53:50 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:26:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
SRBs for sure.  Being able to limit to half or quarter throttle and have them burn a command pod into low orbit is delicious.  Fuel loadout is also decent, just need to figure the best balance of draining half the oxidizer to streamline a spaceplane.
*drools*
You can adjust SRB's?
* IronTomato has begun a mysterious construction!
Unfortunately (for me, at least) Mechjeb doesn't recognize changes to throttle on SRB, and lists them as going full speed, so your Dv, burn time, and TWR doesn't update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 10:12:10 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:59:04 am
Quote from: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 09:53:50 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:26:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
SRBs for sure.  Being able to limit to half or quarter throttle and have them burn a command pod into low orbit is delicious.  Fuel loadout is also decent, just need to figure the best balance of draining half the oxidizer to streamline a spaceplane.
*drools*
You can adjust SRB's?
* IronTomato has begun a mysterious construction!
Unfortunately (for me, at least) Mechjeb doesn't recognize changes to throttle on SRB, and lists them as going full speed, so your Dv, burn time, and TWR doesn't update.
Mechjeb is for the weak!

IronTomato continues working.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Talfryn on December 18, 2013, 11:51:36 am
(http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/Talfryn/SpaceHop_zpsb7eb766a.png?t=1387385440)


My first real space plane. If only the damn thing could get to orbit...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 18, 2013, 12:20:51 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 09:26:51 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 04:04:33 am
What is your preferred tweakable? So far I love the chutes.
SRBs for sure.  Being able to limit to half or quarter throttle and have them burn a command pod into low orbit is delicious.  Fuel loadout is also decent, just need to figure the best balance of draining half the oxidizer to streamline a spaceplane.

Tac Fuel Balancer is still great. You can mess with that on the fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2013, 01:48:53 pm
(http://img.ie/vco74.png)
The shadow of my plane looks like a spaceship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 01:49:36 pm
I'll bet that's because it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2013, 01:50:13 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 01:49:36 pm
I'll bet that's because it is.
Nope, it can barely lift off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 01:51:26 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 18, 2013, 01:50:13 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 01:49:36 pm
I'll bet that's because it is.
Nope, it can barely lift off.
Groundship?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 18, 2013, 02:05:33 pm
Spoiler: Your fix (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2013, 02:43:56 pm
Well, you guys try to get this thing to flameout height.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49176298/THERE%20IS%20NO%20WAY%20THIS%20CAN%20GO%20WRONG.craft

There's the .craft file. Good luck. (Obviously, without FAR)
(http://i.imgur.com/5ZFLuiv.png)
Yes, that is an external command seat. I haven't killed any Kerbals by flying this thing trough that, though. It comes with a remote  guidance system.

Fitting music to play while flying this thing. (http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=JGw8DWctAts)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 18, 2013, 03:07:26 pm
Unless they changed it in this release, which i can't play yet, those radial attached intakes will stop providing any airflow at all well before you get to flameout. but they won't hesitate to provide drag...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 03:09:02 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 18, 2013, 03:07:26 pm
Unless they changed it in this release, which i can't play yet, those radial attached intakes will stop providing any airflow at all well before you get to flameout. but they won't hesitate to provide drag...
Mechjeb is pretty decent here with 'control intakes' option.  It'll automatically close and open intakes to balance drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2013, 03:24:00 pm
The main challenge here is getting the plane above 5000 m.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 18, 2013, 04:13:02 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 18, 2013, 03:09:02 pm
Quote from: sneakey pete on December 18, 2013, 03:07:26 pm
Unless they changed it in this release, which i can't play yet, those radial attached intakes will stop providing any airflow at all well before you get to flameout. but they won't hesitate to provide drag...
Mechjeb is pretty decent here with 'control intakes' option.  It'll automatically close and open intakes to balance drag.

That only works with closable intakes, which those are not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 18, 2013, 04:24:34 pm
It sounds like it's time to strap an external command seat to a bunch of SRB's and send someone into space. But who to send?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erils on December 18, 2013, 04:27:49 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on December 18, 2013, 04:24:34 pm
It sounds like it's time to strap an external command seat to a bunch of SRB's and send someone into space. But who to send?

OOH ME! PICK ME! PICK ME! ME! ME! MEEEEE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 18, 2013, 04:31:08 pm
Kurt is orbiting Duna. I'll go with Bill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 18, 2013, 04:43:50 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 18, 2013, 04:13:02 pm
That only works with closable intakes, which those are not.

They, and all intakes are closeable. However drag isn't reduced to zero when closing an intake.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 18, 2013, 06:54:09 pm
Noticed something interesting -- the Science Archives track EVA reports when flying (not just orbiting, but flying in atmosphere) over biomes. 

You can only get science once, but it tracks each biome you do it in and records the zero-science-value.

Something for completionists, i suppose.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 18, 2013, 06:55:31 pm
I though each Kerbin biome had it's own pool of science data?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 18, 2013, 06:57:51 pm
Yeah but only when you're on the ground.

In the air, you can only get EVA reports. Otherwise it's just "Kerbins High Atmosphere" or "Kerbin Low Orbit"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 18, 2013, 06:59:47 pm
What happened to "High over Kerbin's water" or "High over Kerbin's ice sheets"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 18, 2013, 07:01:52 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on December 18, 2013, 06:59:47 pm
What happened to "High over Kerbin's water" or "High over Kerbin's ice sheets"?
Yes, but not for EVA Reports, IIRC. All of them are the same 'this is a bad idea' thing. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 18, 2013, 07:06:17 pm
Identical text still gives you science...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 18, 2013, 07:44:09 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on December 18, 2013, 06:55:31 pm
I though each Kerbin biome had it's own pool of science data?

depends on the sensor. temperature gets a whole space near kerbin; gravity gets a different response while orbiting for each biome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 18, 2013, 08:39:58 pm
I've been using my lander to get two sets of Mun and Minmus data each mission. Land, liftoff and coast, land, take off and return to Kerbin. It's just a one tall tank and four half that with legs. The four are detachable. When I liftoff to go home I often have a full tall tank. It cuts down on near Kerbin missions. There is more than enough fuel to plop down anywhere on Kerbin and grab some surface samples. Two sets like that plus touchdown on Kerbin yields about 1100+ science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 18, 2013, 09:43:00 pm
The new EVA data transferring is awesome.

I had a command pod and lander in orbit around Minmus, and I made some trips back and forth storing data in the command pod. Much science was had, though there could have been more if I hadn't gotten lazy and gone home, despite the lander having about 60% fuel left.

Ah'll be back, Minmus,
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on December 18, 2013, 10:27:31 pm
...So. As it turns out. I really shouldn't be allowed to use KAS. Unlocked winches, started fiddling. A few discoveries about how they work later, what did I make?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not anything useful, that's for sure. At least Jeb had fun!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...Little too much fun there Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 19, 2013, 07:36:47 am
Kerbal Rocket Surgery (modded) community game is moving to .23

some parts are still beta, and we're selecting which restriction to add to the exponential science growth! come and vote!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133030.msg4847204#msg4847204

Spoiler: mod mix (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nyulzsiraf on December 19, 2013, 02:49:34 pm
Rover test :)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 19, 2013, 02:58:44 pm
What's the intake for? (Besides looking badass)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 19, 2013, 03:35:12 pm
probably causing it to violently self-destruct if it flips. This game's physics don't always make sense :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 19, 2013, 04:54:07 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on December 19, 2013, 03:35:12 pm
probably causing it to violently self-destruct if it flips. This game's physics don't always make sense :P
AKA Michael Bay-Physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nyulzsiraf on December 19, 2013, 05:29:29 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on December 19, 2013, 02:58:44 pm
What's the intake for? (Besides looking badass)
only for the design, cos it's looking badass with it 8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 19, 2013, 05:35:23 pm
speaking of violent explosions, it's amusing anecdote time:

started a fresh career game in .23, and went fishing for cheap local science with shoddy rockets.  One flight was particularly poorly aimed, and time warp had caused it to be coming down with a broken parachute. 

Batteries were depleted, so reaction wheels were not running.  I was pretty sure the whole thing was going to blow on impact, so I sent the pilot out to get a high-atmosphere EVA report and maybe he'd make it.  It was an absurd idea, but for some retarded reason I thought that I could jump and hit the ocean.  The rocket was over water, but had enough angular momentum that it was aiming to crash on dry land.  I thought maybe I could use the pilot's jetpack to make him hit the water and hopefully slow his decent enough to survive.

Well, he hit the waves like a ripe tomato hits asphalt.

Meanwhile, a girder and an empty liquid fuel tank act as cushions as the rocket crashes, and the only component to survive the decent is the now vacant crew capsule.

Actually got some science from the experiments in the capsule after recovering it, but it was a real headsmack moment there when I saw the capsule had survived after I foolishly made the little guy bail out.

sometimes I wish they could be given personal parachutes, add some HALO opportunities.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Knight of Fools on December 19, 2013, 05:42:33 pm
You forgot to mention the state of panic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 19, 2013, 05:42:59 pm
Water is far more dangerous than land. Land will cause explosions which can slow you down and maybe you'll survive. Water instakills any part that hits it too fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 19, 2013, 05:49:46 pm
I have the vanguard mod that adds EVA parachutes so I can actually bail out
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 19, 2013, 06:20:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 19, 2013, 05:49:46 pm
I have the vanguard mod that adds EVA parachutes so I can actually bail out

Do you mix it with the deadly-reentry mod? 

I had an EVA go wrong, and watched in horror (okay, I was actually giggling like a schoolgirl) as Jeb floated away from his ship.  Something had cocked up my shift-key, and I couldnt move vertically. 

Anyway, Jeb had a huge grin as he streaked through the sky on fire.  Of course he died in the end, but in reality should have burned up as the atmosphere compressed under him.

Parachutes without deadly-reentry would create an ultra cheap method of returning scientific experiment data from orbit -- you wouldnt need to return capsules, just have kerbals jump out with the experiment data in hand and burn retrograde.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on December 19, 2013, 06:40:13 pm
Quote from: puke on December 19, 2013, 06:20:43 pm
Parachutes without deadly-reentry would create an ultra cheap method of returning scientific experiment data from orbit -- you wouldnt need to return capsules, just have kerbals jump out with the experiment data in hand and burn retrograde.

And you have a problem with this because?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 19, 2013, 06:45:01 pm
When I did use deadly reentry I had emergency return pods which were just external command chairs strapped to heat shields with a tiny amount of RCS and a parachute.

Fun times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 19, 2013, 07:49:34 pm
SO MANY MUN BIOMES
There's a lot. I didn't know about the little Midland and Highland craters until today.

I have not found the Minmus Highlands yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 19, 2013, 07:52:28 pm
My first landing on Minmus was there! 1500 meters. I landed in the dark.

I really need to plan better. I mean, it was a successful return mission and all that, but I land in the dark way too often >:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 19, 2013, 07:58:25 pm
Damnit, Putnam. How are you supposed to spread the location of biomes if you're blind?

So I'm spacing out 3 Eve missions to all go in the same window. One each at 100km, 300km, and 600km orbits around Kerbin. They're about 15 minutes apart. A Jool mission will go out 30 days prior. What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 19, 2013, 09:43:11 pm
So I've been launching rovers to Mun.

In the perfect world, how fast should a rover be able to go before it flips over while turning? (I'm not asking HOW to make it better, I wanna figure that out by myself)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Blargityblarg on December 19, 2013, 09:52:34 pm
Anybody else have an irrational urge to make a jet-powered rover with an extended antenna on the front, lining some kerbals up on the runway, and making some kerbabs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 19, 2013, 09:59:27 pm
Quote from: Blargityblarg on December 19, 2013, 09:52:34 pm
Anybody else have an irrational urge to make a jet-powered rover with an extended antenna on the front, lining some kerbals up on the runway, and making some kerbabs?
Well, now that you mention it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 19, 2013, 11:01:24 pm
Don't use stock rover wheels. They'll pop if you go jet powered.

Also. Again. Fuck you, Gilly. 1x for a quarter hour just to get low Gilly orbit science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Spoiler: Building a science lab around the Mun. (click to show/hide)
Science module and fuel module are already there. Now I just need some crew quarters and finally a Mun taxi with science parts. Then I just need to land and dock fifteen times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 20, 2013, 01:54:47 pm
Ah, reminds me of when I was building my LKO space station... Ol' Leburry's been up there for years!

By the way, if I wanted to push something like that to another planet to act as a refueling station, what would I have to do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 20, 2013, 02:00:44 pm
Quote from: Knight of Fools on December 19, 2013, 05:42:33 pm
You forgot to mention the state of panic.
The state of panic is omnipresent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 02:06:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Spoiler: Building a science lab around the Mun. (click to show/hide)
Science module and fuel module are already there. Now I just need some crew quarters and finally a Mun taxi with science parts. Then I just need to land and dock fifteen times.

It's still low returns on sending most science via antenna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 03:40:46 pm
Spoiler: Added crew and a taxi (click to show/hide)

Quote from: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 02:06:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 01:38:11 pm
Spoiler: Building a science lab around the Mun. (click to show/hide)
Science module and fuel module are already there. Now I just need some crew quarters and finally a Mun taxi with science parts. Then I just need to land and dock fifteen times.

It's still low returns on sending most science via antenna.
WHAT :c

Quote from: IronTomato on December 20, 2013, 01:54:47 pm
By the way, if I wanted to push something like that to another planet to act as a refueling station, what would I have to do?
If you want to move an existing space station, just build an acceleration module (i.e. a rocket with a docking port on top), and make sure you attach it symmetrically, otherwise you'll just accelerate in circles. If your station can't be symmetricized by redocking, just move the parts one by one and rebuild the station around the other planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 03:54:12 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 03:40:46 pm
Quote
It's still low returns on sending most science via antenna.
WHAT :c

Sent scientific data will zero out very quickly if it's a physical experiment. Observational ones are the only ones you can get 100% for over the air. So, you might be able to get 40% sent off the first time and then next repetition will have 0%, but delivering to Kerbin will give you the remainder. Processing in the lab will never give you 100%.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 20, 2013, 03:56:45 pm
4 Kerbals trapped on the Mun today, 4 Kerbals trapped on the Mun,
Send a new craft, we need them all back,
4 Kerbals trapped on the Mun.

5 Kerbals trapped on the Mun today, 5 Kerbals trapped on the Mun...

This career session is not going well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 20, 2013, 04:18:55 pm
Eeh, needs more work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 04:24:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 03:54:12 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 03:40:46 pm
Quote
It's still low returns on sending most science via antenna.
WHAT :c

Sent scientific data will zero out very quickly if it's a physical experiment. Observational ones are the only ones you can get 100% for over the air. So, you might be able to get 40% sent off the first time and then next repetition will have 0%, but delivering to Kerbin will give you the remainder. Processing in the lab will never give you 100%.
So the only benefit is that you can reset your science parts? That's stupid. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 20, 2013, 04:32:58 pm
It lets you build spacestations that have purpose.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 20, 2013, 04:34:20 pm
I thought the lab let you get more out of returned craft as well...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 05:09:49 pm
You can gain an additional 10-20% on your 40%(or whatever. equipment dependent.) Also the reset. BUT. You will never get 100% from spamming experiments over the airwaves.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 20, 2013, 05:11:40 pm
With a lab you can reset experiments, so if you have it orbiting, you can land, get samples, go back up, dock, move the experiments to the command module then reset the experiments with the lab.  Then head out with your lander again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 05:15:41 pm
Quote from: Puzzlemaker on December 20, 2013, 05:11:40 pm
With a lab you can reset experiments, so if you have it orbiting, you can land, get samples, go back up, dock, move the experiments to the command module then reset the experiments with the lab.  Then head out with your lander again.
Oh, so you can transfer the goo and material samples? Well I'm relieved now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 20, 2013, 05:16:51 pm
Thank whatever deity is in the game.

Whoever it is, Jeb is probably its prophet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 05:17:12 pm
You can process the reports. I have no clue if you can transfer the reports for stuff like goo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 20, 2013, 05:18:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 05:17:12 pm
You can process the reports. I have no clue if you can transfer the reports for stuff like goo.

I believe you can transfer reports for any experiment, but you need the science module to reset the experiment after it is used.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 05:57:38 pm
UPDATE: I tested it, you can transfer neither goo nor material samples. Crud on a cracker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 06:02:26 pm
But I just transferred a surface sample.

EDIT: So we meet again, mysterious red space line.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's about half an AU long, and it just sort of happens to happen every time after I've played for a while. As you can see, it appears both in map view and in staging view. Anyone know details?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 06:48:48 pm
I think what you can do is process experiments fully in order to return to Kerbin what was an 80% experiment right up to 100% in one mission.

The Munar poles are a pain to land on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 20, 2013, 08:21:45 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 06:02:26 pm
But I just transferred a surface sample.

EDIT: So we meet again, mysterious red space line.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's about half an AU long, and it just sort of happens to happen every time after I've played for a while. As you can see, it appears both in map view and in staging view. Anyone know details?

I've encountered that before. It seems to be caused by the game not properly forgetting target intercept details/removing those lines relating to target intercepts after a docking procedure.

Also, I put a science lab, among other things, in orbit around minmus and am transferring experiments up to it after each landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2013, 08:43:29 pm
Mun experiments are largely done. I have visited every biome and brought back all the science. None of it has been processed. I think I'm good for awhile. Minmus is still missing Highland and Slopes. Mun canyon was not as bad as I thought. Not even close to the pole. Mun pole is all knobbly. It's surprising the slopes you can land on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2013, 08:55:49 pm
argh, so upset. 

maybe 400 total research, early in a career mode.  got a lander to minmus, picked up all but one biome's orbital report.  thought i'd save fuel for the return trip, so landed on the tail of my transfer rocket instead of on my lander (no docking ports, so I couldnt re-use the transfer booster unless I landed with it).

Pretty proud of myself, picked up an EVA report from the ground and a surface sample, stowed them in the pod and used the jetpack to get more from a nearby biome.

On the way back, Jeb crashed his jetpack into the ground and died X(

Argh!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 20, 2013, 08:59:19 pm
What would happen if you brought another Kerbonaut and took the craft back?

Would you be able to recover the SCIENCE?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2013, 09:09:51 pm
Quote from: Descan on December 20, 2013, 08:59:19 pm
What would happen if you brought another Kerbonaut and took the craft back?

Would you be able to recover the SCIENCE?

I believe so, I'm sending up a two-seater now, with the intention of flying back both ships.  I suspect Jeb will respawn?  Or does that not occur in career mode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 20, 2013, 09:29:16 pm
The three Immortals (Bob, Bill, Jeb) are respawning in Careering mode, da.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 21, 2013, 12:40:39 am
Quote from: Descan on December 20, 2013, 08:59:19 pm
What would happen if you brought another Kerbonaut and took the craft back?

Would you be able to recover the SCIENCE?

Yes, so... did just that.  Brought a heavier two seater to minimus, and stocked this one with four labs and 8 goo containers.  Brought an extra pilot, and flew both ships back to Kerbin.

Was pretty pleased as they were both racing back on slightly different trajectories.  Landed the larger rescue craft.

Original ship with my replacement pilot explodes when it hits the atmosphere under time acceleration.  F***
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Carnwennan on December 21, 2013, 02:24:40 am
I've gotten a little better at working with FAR. Once you're out of atmos it's really all the same.

My first Mun lander failed hilariously when I made the landing gear too stubby and the rockets hit the surface first and exploded. The rescue craft ran out of fuel on the return trip and the rescue rescue craft ditched the spare command pod intended for the stranded pilot before rendezvous. I had to switch the pilot into the rescue rescue craft and condemn Jeb to eventually intercept with the Mun again and fly out of Kerbin's sphere of influence. The rescue rescue craft landed fine and Cormon Kerman later managed a Minmus landing with an improved version of the original ship.



Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 21, 2013, 04:19:17 pm
THE KRAKEN

Black screen. Altitude was 666666. Can't even see Kerbin Command.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 21, 2013, 04:22:37 pm
The Kraken ate the ship destined for Dres. :(
It was only a few days away.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on December 21, 2013, 05:06:32 pm
Aye, the Hell Kraken Nastie Beastie, She is many a Kersailor has been lost to her 666 tentacles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 21, 2013, 05:40:17 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 05:57:38 pm
UPDATE: I tested it, you can transfer neither goo nor material samples. Crud on a cracker.
Well Fuck. I just spend two evenings if not more on a Minmus lab, lander, hopper, and kethane mining facility all in one.

At least I got better at manual docking...

Edit: So if I get this straight, the Lab is only good for if you don't plan on returning home? But you will need to sacrifice your kerbals, because it doesn't work with AI or probes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 21, 2013, 05:51:24 pm
Quote from: Siquo on December 21, 2013, 05:40:17 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2013, 05:57:38 pm
UPDATE: I tested it, you can transfer neither goo nor material samples. Crud on a cracker.
Well Fuck. I just spend two evenings if not more on a Minmus lab, lander, hopper, and kethane mining facility all in one.

At least I got better at manual docking...

Edit: So if I get this straight, the Lab is only good for if you don't plan on returning home? But you will need to sacrifice your kerbals, because it doesn't work with AI or probes?
Exactly, the lab module needs two people inside it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 21, 2013, 05:59:27 pm
Seems kind of pointless to me. Due to my play style, i'm not leaving kerbals stranded on a planet. (at least, not until you have to bring along the requisite life support systems), so i'm better served using the extra mass bringing more stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 21, 2013, 06:00:25 pm
It's still okay for sending some experiments with a wee hair more science points, but physically returning to Kerbin is by far the best and the lab helps more in that than in sending data wirelessly. No more milking that antenna and solar panels from a distance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 21, 2013, 07:16:39 pm
I find the lab is a great storage container for data from lander experiments on Minmus' surface. I packed surface samples, material bay and goo can data from the lander into the lab after each voyage to the surface; 30 or so items in all on board now. Sometimes I forgot to reset the science lab and goo cans, or take crew reports from the surface, so I missed a bit of science I'll have to retrieve once I have a rover to send up. Maybe a 100-ton behemoth with a lab on it. Still, a ton of science once I transfer it all into the kerbin reentry vehicle and plonk it down on Kerbin. With all the kerbals on board, of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 21, 2013, 09:02:00 pm
How do you fine tune your aim for interplanetary travel?

I find that I cant actually aim at a specific body until I enter its sphere of influence.  So, if I want to shoot for Eve I can make sure that I have an "interaction" and take my best guess, but I cant actually aim at the planet until I enter it's area of influence and can see where I am headed in relation to it.

Am I missing some feature that makes this easier?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 21, 2013, 09:04:57 pm
I always just hover over the periapsis node to see the periapsis altitude, once the maneuver has been adjusted to hit the sphere of influence. See what makes it go up or down, and fine-tune accordingly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 21, 2013, 09:06:05 pm
Quote from: puke on December 21, 2013, 09:02:00 pm
How do you fine tune your aim for interplanetary travel?

I find that I cant actually aim at a specific body until I enter its sphere of influence.  So, if I want to shoot for Eve I can make sure that I have an "interaction" and take my best guess, but I cant actually aim at the planet until I enter it's area of influence and can see where I am headed in relation to it.

Am I missing some feature that makes this easier?
Maneuver nodes predict your course perfectly, apart from atmosphere-related-effects.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 21, 2013, 09:40:16 pm
okay, clearly my question isnt clear, so I'll try again:

Setting a maneuver node predicts your course accurately, yes.  it shows you your exact path, up until a planetary encounter begins and ends.

What you cant see, or what I dont know how to see, is the specific details WITHIN that encounter.  I want to see my periapsis for the target planet, and where the target planet will be exactly during that point in time.

Where the planet will be is not displayed (or i cant figure out how to display it) until you actually begin the encounter with the planet.  At that time, your path is re-drawn relative to the planet its self.  And now, you can aim at the planet and see your periapsis and everything.

But since you are so much closer now, adjustments are much more expensive.

edit:  i take it back, i can see the periapsis inside the encounter, but I cant tell where the planet is or how to adjust it -- nor can I see any moons if I wanted to be aiming for one of them insteadl
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 21, 2013, 09:49:59 pm
If I'm understanding you correctly you want to open settings.cfg and increase CONIC_PATCH_LIMIT. It sets the number of future orbits you can see, but each is less accurate than the one preceding it. You can even change CONIC_PATCH_DRAW_MODE (0,1,2,3,4) to see if you prefer one of the others. I use the precise node mod to let me change these on the fly and mode 30 for fine tuning interplanetary transfers.

Edit: Draw modes explained (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/11322-Different-Conic-drawing-modes).

Edit: The transfer guide that helped me a lot in the beginning (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27236-Tutorial-Step-by-step-Interplanetary-Hohmann-transfer-guide-and-tips).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 21, 2013, 10:35:02 pm
ah, that looks promising.  Will give it a try, thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 22, 2013, 11:25:56 am
KSP is on the Steam Flash sale. You have less than two hours to buy a xmas present for all your astronaut friends.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 22, 2013, 10:28:42 pm
Pull off a 6 on 6 docking rendezvous on my first attempt, and it was the most smooth docking in the entire time I've played KSP.
Spoiler: The Results (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on December 22, 2013, 10:31:54 pm
Some of us aren't as incredibly suave when it comes to docking, :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 23, 2013, 12:21:36 am
Er, no biggie. I'm pretty good at docking.

*looks at image*

HOLY JESUS CHRIST ON A FLAMING POGO STICK
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 23, 2013, 02:31:30 am
That is simply ridiculous. Why would you even want to do that!?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 23, 2013, 03:38:30 am
Hehehe. Just did better.
There and back again: The Kerbals' Tale of their journey to the Sun.
So, figured I would use a modified version of that station's tail for a mission to de-orbit the sun and get as close as possible. I succeeded beyond my best hopes.
So it started with a craft; the Death Mk 3.Science; a sensible name for any mission to the sun.

While the craft does need optimizing, as its T:W ratio is around 1:1 for most of the ascent, it did serve its purpose admirably. It launched such that it could de-orbit the sun without making any course corrections (simply a launch at dusk). The details are rather dull; typical solar de-orbiting. 8 stage rocket, all told; spend 1 through 6 on the de-orbit, with a little under half of 7 and all of 8 remaining as it fell inwards. The remaining craft at this point is shown in image 1 (see bottom of post for the imgur album).

It lined up the descent such that it would graze just above the surface of the Sun. As a side note, you can apparently get near sun science at 880 million meters, possibly higher. So anyway, they got increasingly closer to the sun; and as they did, I notice the mesh of the sun itself was well below the surface, in a rather large way. So, I dropped the orbit such that they would try and go below the surface. To serve as an early warning system for the exploration, it fired off 2 of the 6 engines in the stage 7 assembly. They go straight as an arrow, and end up quite out in front of the craft; or in this case, below. As the surface approached, I watched as the two engines descended below the craft; one to around 90km, the other to 25km. At 90km from the surface, the first vanished; it had clearly impacted. The surface of the sun apparatently is the surface. I immediately turned the craft around, thrusting straight up at full thrust to avoid the fate of the first engine. At 25km from the surface, the second engine hit. The altitude meter continued spinning downwards as the craft ran for its life from the approaching surface. It leveled out at a mere 15km, with the craft travelling at around 90km/s relative to the surface. The resulting craft is in the second image.

This burn had used about 1/3 of the fuel remaining in stage 7 and thrown off the transfer orbit a bit. I had never intended to get this craft back; it didn't even have landing gear or parachutes! And yet, I arranged a transfer orbit back to Kerbin after only a year. I reduced the periapsis to 37.5km; intending to do a hard aerocapture maneuver. If the craft went too low, it was mission over; this thing couldn't survive a landing. Too high, and it would escape from Kerbin's gravity and never been seen again. Unfortunately, the entire thing was off the cuff; I had never done such an aerocapture on Kerbin, and so wasn't sure what altitude would give me 6000m/s of dv. Turns out, 37.5km was way too high. It burned off a mere 1000m/s; and after burning every drop of fuel remaining, was heading out at 2000m/s. 13 hours to escape the gravity well. I needed an interceptor.

And so, the Deadalus R3, a modified version of the head of the station, was created. This variation had much more fuel at launch, and enough dv to catch up to and retrieve the Kerbals from their sun mission. After an hour or so of course corrections and various maneuverings, the craft intercepted the pod of the Death Mk 3.Science, retrieving its 3 Kerbals. A Hohmann Transfer was then made, and the rescue R3 docked at the station.

Pics: http://imgur.com/a/yXm2c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 23, 2013, 07:08:20 am
What the fuck, alway.
/me claps
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 23, 2013, 07:55:14 am
Quote from: alway on December 22, 2013, 10:28:42 pm
Pull off a 6 on 6 docking rendezvous on my first attempt, and it was the most smooth docking in the entire time I've played KSP.
Spoiler: The Results (click to show/hide)
Wait a moment, 6 on 6 docking? Is that even possible? I thought struts were the only parts able to create connected loops.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 23, 2013, 08:58:04 am
Quote from: alway on December 23, 2013, 03:38:30 am
Hehehe. Just did better.
There and back again: The Kerbals' Tale of their journey to the Sun.
So, figured I would use a modified version of that station's tail for a mission to de-orbit the sun and get as close as possible. I succeeded beyond my best hopes.

What!? de-orbit the sun!
I am literally crying with laughter!


@McFry
Yeah, some of us veterans remember when docking was introduced, and there was a flurry of experimentation with multiple docking, to stop space stations being so jiggly!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on December 23, 2013, 11:20:23 am
I used to use 6 on 6 docking as well, but then I noticed that for big ships, it added too many parts. tried to switch to 3 ports, butit is a bit harder to dock that way.

I think only one port is really docked, but the other ports still provide structural stability.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 23, 2013, 11:59:21 am
You could try 3 on 3 clampotron sr docking.

EDIT:
(http://puu.sh/5Wb5C.jpg)
This is in the most recent version. Not my screenie, but somebody managed to fuck up HARD.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 23, 2013, 12:59:55 pm
Quote from: andrea on December 23, 2013, 11:20:23 am
I used to use 6 on 6 docking as well, but then I noticed that for big ships, it added too many parts. tried to switch to 3 ports, butit is a bit harder to dock that way.

I think only one port is really docked, but the other ports still provide structural stability.
All 6 give the 'undock' option, so as far as I can tell, all 6 are in fact docked. Quite shocking considering I usually bollocks up a 1 to 1 dock several times before connecting. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on December 23, 2013, 04:00:33 pm
When you find the source for infinite Jeb, you've reached Nirvana.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on December 23, 2013, 05:44:09 pm
NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! GAAAAAAH! 80m! 80M! Done my first rondevous, done my first approach, about to dock the first time and kmp moves the station 500m! Don't have the heart to try again in single player.
I feel better now.
By the way, Bay12, I missed you. It's been too long.

It feels good to be back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 23, 2013, 09:31:19 pm
Decided to pick up some science by mining the moons various biomes.  So I designed a lander with two material bays and two goo containers.

Used 4x symmetry to bolt two rows of them, for a total of 8 landers attached to the heaviest lift vehicle that I've been able to manage without access to Mainsails.

It took a few trys to get the thing into orbit, as it is considerably heavier than anything else I've successfully launched - including interplanetary missions.

Unfortunately, I'm not a skilled enough pilot to land the landers with anywhere near enough fuel to get back off the moon.  They've got a pretty sizeable tank and the most efficient small engine I could get, but I think I might have gotten greedy with the 2x materials and 2x goo canisters.  Also, I forgot RCS thrusters so I'm not sure how I'd re-dock them with the mothership.

Maybe should have aimed it at Minmus instead.  Maybe should have brought 4 or 6 instead of 8.

Ah well, one more amusing failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 23, 2013, 09:53:16 pm
2 and 2 is not difficult. Try something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It can deorbit, land (Mun or Minmus), hop up, land somewhere else, liftoff and orbit, transfer back to Kerbin. You just have to get it to either moon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 23, 2013, 10:49:24 pm
Thats about 5x at much fuel as I had packed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 23, 2013, 10:54:49 pm
There's fuel to spare so you can make mistakes. It does get the job done. With your final sampling you can pump all fuel into the central column and leave the landing bits behind to save on weight. It's built more for the Mun, so Minmus you could travel a bit lighter, although you still need a bit more fuel to get back to Kerbin. It can still deorbit from 100km above the Mun and get back to Kerbin all by itself. I have made a version of this with the tiny RCS fuel pods, with RCS on the main stalk, on the disposable landing legs so you could probably process at a lab before returning to Kerbin.

You might be able to cut out 1/3rd of that fuel all around for Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 23, 2013, 11:04:46 pm
but it does not look like you can lift more than one at a time.  I was trying for something like this:


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 23, 2013, 11:24:48 pm
Yes, I can see those being one way trips to the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 23, 2013, 11:41:03 pm
Haha, but now it is a very populated surface! 

That is actually the Mk2 with a larger fuel tank.  I brought up a quicksave and have relocated the Mk1 to Minmus, if they cant get back then I guess it will give me an excuse to fly a rescue mission.

Maybe it would be more efficient (but heavier overall) to design it with a detatchable lander stage, so the science can return to space and leave the legs and landing engine and fuel tank behind.  Not sure if that is worth it, does not seem so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 23, 2013, 11:51:20 pm
My design is a bit of a lander hybrid. The legs and empty fuel tanks dead weight get left behind.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 24, 2013, 12:28:15 am
I see, you ditch the outer tanks.  Do you really need all 5 engines?  if its just for stability, could you use smaller ones or even RCS instead?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 24, 2013, 12:51:38 am
They are definitely needed for landing if you don't want to burn the entire time down. They certainly help for fuck ups when you're quite close and need to lose some velocity. There's also the bottom heavy stability of it. Once you ditch the outer tanks and get into Munar orbit you're quite a bit lighter and can plonk yourself down almost anywhere on Kerbin. I've gotten to the poles for some final atmospheric measurements as part of the whole mission.

This same vehicle with another vehicle underneath (and maybe the remains of the initial Kerbin lifter) can go to Eve, Duna, Jool, Dres, and at least get to but not return from Moho. I need to send a refueler to Moho to retrieve that mission. I might make it a full space station but Moho is such a pain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 24, 2013, 01:01:44 am
haha, these derpy little thing have JUST enough gas to touch down, and BARELY make it back to Kerbin -- even with my lousy piloting skills!

A better astrogator would have fuel to spare.  Not a chance on the Mun, but they totally work here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nyulzsiraf on December 24, 2013, 03:27:42 am
Quote from: puke on December 24, 2013, 01:01:44 am
haha, these derpy little thing have JUST enough gas to touch down, and BARELY make it back to Kerbin -- even with my lousy piloting skills!

A better astrogator would have fuel to spare.  Not a chance on the Mun, but they totally work here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
it is look nice :)
yesterday i tired to lift smth like this, but it fell to pieces :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 24, 2013, 04:19:31 am
Just in case you felt like you were doing well as a pilot in KSP, here's Scott Manley again to show you how terrible you are as he flies(and lands) aircraft without wings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLyntlitT4
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 24, 2013, 05:55:39 am
Remember guys, you can EVA and get the research from the goo/material units, so you only have to bring the capsule back, you can leave the used-up science containers on the surface.

My "hopper" design (no screenshots as I didn't save it :( ):
Code: [Select]
top:
 O
OOO
 O

side:
   /\
 ##||##
 ||||||
 ||^^||
/^^  ^^\

|| = fuel tank
/\ = capsule
/ and \ = landing legs
## = science module (also goo and other stuff, so 4x each)
Use the side-burners to hop around, and the central one with just the capsule is just enough to get home, you decouple the side modules when you leave. Eventually only the capsule lands.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 24, 2013, 05:58:27 am
Yep. That is how I return all science now.

EVA, grab all of the data, ditch the rest of the craft and the return stage burns back home. Eventually just the capsule lands on parachutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2013, 09:11:37 am
I now bring back everything because of kerbal economy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 24, 2013, 06:10:55 pm
You know that feeling, when you land your sciencehopper next to your refueling station, connect them to refuel, and then accidentally press the shift key?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Goddamnit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 24, 2013, 07:49:53 pm
Quote from: Siquo on December 24, 2013, 05:55:39 am
Remember guys, you can EVA and get the research from the goo/material units, so you only have to bring the capsule back, you can leave the used-up science containers on the surface.

Whoa, you can WHAT now? 

That would make returns CONSIDERABLY more economical.  No, what I mean is that I am conscious of the environment, waste not want not, leave no trace, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 25, 2013, 05:00:18 am
Quote from: puke on December 24, 2013, 07:49:53 pm
Quote from: Siquo on December 24, 2013, 05:55:39 am
Remember guys, you can EVA and get the research from the goo/material units, so you only have to bring the capsule back, you can leave the used-up science containers on the surface.

Whoa, you can WHAT now? 

That would make returns CONSIDERABLY more economical.  No, what I mean is that I am conscious of the environment, waste not want not, leave no trace, etc.
All science units, by the way, but the other ones are actually re-usable (Do science, EVA, get data, and you can re-use the item again).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 25, 2013, 05:27:26 am
Quote from: Siquo on December 25, 2013, 05:00:18 am
Quote from: puke on December 24, 2013, 07:49:53 pm
Quote from: Siquo on December 24, 2013, 05:55:39 am
Remember guys, you can EVA and get the research from the goo/material units, so you only have to bring the capsule back, you can leave the used-up science containers on the surface.

Whoa, you can WHAT now? 

That would make returns CONSIDERABLY more economical.  No, what I mean is that I am conscious of the environment, waste not want not, leave no trace, etc.
All science units, by the way, but the other ones are actually re-usable (Do science, EVA, get data, and you can re-use the item again).
In regards to bringing the science bay along, wasn't it mentioned somewhere that it can reload the experiments? I.e. the goo pods and materials bays.

Also, the capsules should totally have limited amount of storage for non-verbal reports - samples, goo, materials analyses, etc. Because it seems we've jumped into the other extreme - right now transmitting via the lab module is pointless if you're returning the Kerbals anyways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 25, 2013, 01:26:32 pm
I'm going to cross-post this from the KSP subreddit; it's my plan to make the science bay more... useful.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To summarize, make it so that the science bay can repeat all other experiments with a long-term study that takes a large amount of time in-game. This makes it useful for space stations and bases, and also makes it most useful for doing in-depth research in places you've already been.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 25, 2013, 01:33:36 pm
Sounds nice, but I'd suggest a much simpler idea: Just make a science lab increase the transmission cutoff by a significant amount; instead of increasing 20% to 22%, increase it to 75% or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 25, 2013, 01:40:54 pm
I would like it better if it could hold more things, transfering data from landers into it thean returning it to kerbin would be interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 01:50:44 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 25, 2013, 01:40:54 pm
I would like it better if it could hold more things, transfering data from landers into it thean returning it to kerbin would be interesting.
You can do that I believe... EVA kerbals can transfer data.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 25, 2013, 05:08:29 pm
Really? Good.
Now just do it for ALL THE THINGS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on December 25, 2013, 05:40:21 pm
Actually that does work for all experiments, as far as I can tell. That's exactly what I did on my minmus expedition; transfer everything to the orbitting lab via EVA and then reset the goo cans and materials bay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 08:51:56 pm
So couldn't one assemble a nice ship in orbit with several landers and then just visit each planet? Land a lander, launch and dock. Transfer all data to the lab and clean the experiments. Rinse and repeat. When you're done return to kerbin and drop the lab into the atmosphere on parachutes, or even just transfer it all to a pod/lander.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 08:58:03 pm
You could do that even without the lab. Mothership goes to visit all planets. Returns probes/landers to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 09:04:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 08:58:03 pm
You could do that even without the lab. Mothership goes to visit all planets. Returns probes/landers to Kerbin.
Without the lab you'd need one lander per planet. The lab lets you re-use the experiment bays.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 25, 2013, 09:07:57 pm
So this is the plan then?  Mothership with science lab and enormous fuel supply, along with a small lander with all science modules.  Drop the lander to a body, collect all science possible, return to mothership.  Put all experiments in the science module, reset all the equipment.  Proceed to next body.  Return to Kerbin with ALL THE SCIENCE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 09:24:28 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 09:04:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 08:58:03 pm
You could do that even without the lab. Mothership goes to visit all planets. Returns probes/landers to Kerbin.
Without the lab you'd need one lander per planet. The lab lets you re-use the experiment bays.

You'd need more than one for each planet. Many experiments are not 100% even with physical return to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 09:26:08 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 09:24:28 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on December 25, 2013, 09:04:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 08:58:03 pm
You could do that even without the lab. Mothership goes to visit all planets. Returns probes/landers to Kerbin.
Without the lab you'd need one lander per planet. The lab lets you re-use the experiment bays.

You'd need more than one for each planet. Many experiments are not 100% even with physical return to Kerbin.
true. So you'd need several landers for each planet. More for the moons with biomes.

Or one lander and a lab to reset the experiments.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 25, 2013, 09:27:15 pm
I said you could, not that you should. Mega Mothership!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 26, 2013, 04:06:55 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on December 25, 2013, 01:33:36 pm
Sounds nice, but I'd suggest a much simpler idea: Just make a science lab increase the transmission cutoff by a significant amount; instead of increasing 20% to 22%, increase it to 75% or something.

That's what it does now, and it's useless. If you can send an entire research lab somewhere, you could much more easily send a manned mission there and back, which gets you 80-100%.

My approach makes it rewarding to use the science bay for the "second round" of missions. Land on the moon once, bring a sample back. Land on it again and build a base, then bring a sample to the base for a field study. Or put a space station in orbit and get all your upper Kerbin atmosphere stuff again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on December 26, 2013, 02:02:54 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on December 26, 2013, 04:06:55 am
If you can send an entire research lab somewhere, you could much more easily send a manned mission there and back

Minor objection: Eve.

That said, tis a good point in general.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 26, 2013, 03:15:36 pm
Yep. but its still not as cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 26, 2013, 04:20:11 pm
RemoteTech2 has been officially updated to .23. Time to start up a network.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 26, 2013, 08:30:34 pm
Regarding terrible MSpaint concept art and basebuilding/resources:

Spoiler: The Industrial Complex (click to show/hide)

First off, the space program started out with just the VAB and the Launchpad. Here we see an advanced program center with an airstrip and hangar, a research center, a training building, the tracking center, and finally, right next to the research center, the Industrial Compex. The IC does a number of things; it mines minerals from the planet, it builds new parts, and it recycles old crafts. In sandbox mode, it doesn't do much. In career, all of the parts you use to build ships either need to be bought (Which can only be done on Kerbin, since most contractors don't have rockets), or manufactured from materials in an Industrial Complex. All of these structures are purchased and placed on the empty fields. If you are starting a new base, you might use a special part from a rocket to deploy a new command center. You don't need to go to other planets, though. You could start a polar Kerbin research base or one high in the mountains...

Spoiler: Munbases and off-planet industry (click to show/hide)

Here is our new Munbase. It's much smaller, but still has a VAB and Launchpad, plus a tracking center (this might just be a shortcut to make it easier to switch focus, or it might have practical use, such as to decrease light-speed lag). Right now, this Munbase can't mine or make anything; if we want to launch rockets, we need to use a cargo rocket to bring the parts here. (You can see how many parts you have in storage while building in the Munar VAB, or get an overview in the control building). Luckily, we just found a deposit of Trytanium ore a few km away from the Munbase, using a mapping satellite. If we send a rover or rocket out there, we can do some prospecting. Once we've found the seam and taken a sample back to base, we can start a mining program. First we'll need to build a Munar Industrial Complex, but then the technicians there will take care of all the details. In fact, if we find very valuable ore, we can fly it back to Kerbin and sell it for cash! Some facilities can only be built on Kerbin- the training center, for instance. Others might only work on some planets, such as a Low-G Workshop or a Lathe Biodome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on December 26, 2013, 09:42:44 pm
Yuuup. Better Than Starting Manned, I believe.

...And yes, he's once again being his same old incredibly arrogant self about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 26, 2013, 11:05:27 pm
Just having "Better Than" in the name is quite arrogant. I've ignored that thread. It does not interest me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 27, 2013, 12:01:36 am
Yeah, there's fixing an obviously broken system (see: every Oblivion leveling mod) and then there's calling a reasonable development choice a mistake.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 27, 2013, 05:29:34 am
I hope he gets his ass banned by being, uh, an ass.
I really can't stand this kind of people.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 27, 2013, 06:22:24 am
Quote from: BigD145 on December 26, 2013, 04:20:11 pm
RemoteTech2 has been officially updated to .23. Time to start up a network.

Hasn't it been for a while?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 27, 2013, 10:05:12 am
Quote from: ank on December 27, 2013, 06:22:24 am
Quote from: BigD145 on December 26, 2013, 04:20:11 pm
RemoteTech2 has been officially updated to .23. Time to start up a network.

Hasn't it been for a while?

There was an experimental build that was half-assed to sorta work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 27, 2013, 01:38:49 pm
I've fallen in love with the inflatable centrifuge mod. It just looks so pretty, IVA and all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on December 27, 2013, 04:53:22 pm
Quote from: Octobomb on December 23, 2013, 05:44:09 pm

NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! GAAAAAAH! 80m! 80M! Done my first rondevous, done my first approach, about to dock the first time and kmp moves the station 500m! Don't have the heart to try again in single player.
I fixed this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My first docking!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on December 27, 2013, 06:33:13 pm
Congratulations Octobomb!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on December 27, 2013, 07:54:24 pm
I feel all glowy inside now, thanks! It felt really good - so for those of you still struggling, it's easier than it cracks up to be, provided you take your time. There are plenty of good tutorials out there - I learnt it from my ever-patient friend. The way I do it is probably really inefficient but I've always over engineered my designs for that reason.

Tips:
Getting the first close encounter is the hardest part of rendezvous. The way I do it is to, once in roughly the same orbit as the target set up a manoeuvre node a little way ahead of where you are. Pull the prograde knob until your encounter becomes very close. Twiddle with the purple ones a bit if needed. Aim for 5km separation at least. Execute burn. I'm sure there is more fuel efficient routes involving multiple orbits - my method tends to take up 400-800m/s dV but it works. I used an x-16 tank, a poodle and 2 sas units.

Use an RCS balanced payload. I did this by just having the core the root part, building one half and using alt to duplicate the other. Larger payloads are probably better as they are more sluggish, although I think my RCS module might have been a bit too large.

I hope these tips help. They helped me!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 28, 2013, 05:08:07 am
Eh, I make a maneuver node to get the closest intersect possible and then I play the waiting game until the encounter markers get close enough. (Which can take a fairly long time :c )
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 05:12:38 am
I either:

1. Rendezvous directly from launch (if orbiting around equator of Kerbin)
2. Get into correct inclination with correct longitude of ascending node. Get in orbit that is higher or lower than object. Hohmann transfer and adjust as would do with moon or planet. Once near closest approach, zero relative velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 28, 2013, 07:00:49 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 05:12:38 am
I either:

1. Rendezvous directly from launch (if orbiting around equator of Kerbin)
2. Get into correct inclination with correct longitude of ascending node. Get in orbit that is higher or lower than object. Hohmann transfer and adjust as would do with moon or planet. Once near closest approach, zero relative velocity.

I love how this makes perfect sense to proficient dockers, but is pure gibberish to anybody having problem docking :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 04:07:15 pm
You get to an artificial satellite exactly as you would a natural satellite (e.g moon) ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 28, 2013, 04:26:43 pm
Quote from: ank on December 28, 2013, 07:00:49 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 05:12:38 am
I either:

1. Rendezvous directly from launch (if orbiting around equator of Kerbin)
2. Get into correct inclination with correct longitude of ascending node. Get in orbit that is higher or lower than object. Hohmann transfer and adjust as would do with moon or planet. Once near closest approach, zero relative velocity.

I love how this makes perfect sense to proficient dockers, but is pure gibberish to anybody having problem docking that has never flown a rocket :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on December 28, 2013, 05:03:42 pm
 Had my best interplanetary transfer yet last night on my way to Eve with a probe. I think I just managed to do the transfer close to the correct angle with guessing, after my correction at the ascending node i was on track for a nice 70000m aerocapture, no perfect equatorial orbit and all!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on December 28, 2013, 05:33:31 pm
Quote from: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 04:07:15 pm
You get to an artificial satellite exactly as you would a natural satellite (e.g moon) ;)
Yes, but natural satellites tend to have noticeable gravity. And be, y'know, bigger. And don't spin when you touch them. But I see your point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 28, 2013, 05:44:38 pm
Well, they do spin. But not BECAUSE you touch them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 28, 2013, 05:50:25 pm
Quote from: Descan on December 28, 2013, 05:44:38 pm
Well, they do spin. But not BECAUSE you touch them...

spaceship touches satellite, satellite spins

can't explain that
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on December 28, 2013, 05:51:13 pm
My crew shuttle appears to have spring loaded docking ports. And no parachutes, but I'm not bothered.

*When the physics are strange*
*In LKO*
*Whatcha gonna use?*
*RCS thrusters!*

Thank goodness for my propensity to over prepare. Hey, Kerbal physics are best physics. But always be ready for them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 28, 2013, 05:51:36 pm
I think it has something to do with the tides, LSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 28, 2013, 06:22:51 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 28, 2013, 04:26:43 pm
Quote from: ank on December 28, 2013, 07:00:49 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 28, 2013, 05:12:38 am
I either:

1. Rendezvous directly from launch (if orbiting around equator of Kerbin)
2. Get into correct inclination with correct longitude of ascending node. Get in orbit that is higher or lower than object. Hohmann transfer and adjust as would do with moon or planet. Once near closest approach, zero relative velocity.

I love how this makes perfect sense to proficient dockers, but is pure gibberish to anybody having problem docking that has never flown a rocket :)
Actually, I know a couple of people who play KSP, but they have only ever gone anywhere by burning straight up from the launchpad and getting and intercept. Everything they design is built for the sole purpose of having a load of delta-v applicable forwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 28, 2013, 06:33:31 pm
Quote from: Descan on December 28, 2013, 05:51:36 pm
I think it has something to do with the tides, LSP.

(￣ω￣) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3AFMe2OQY)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 28, 2013, 09:09:31 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 28, 2013, 06:33:31 pm
Quote from: Descan on December 28, 2013, 05:51:36 pm
I think it has something to do with the tides, LSP.

(￣ω￣) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3AFMe2OQY)

You dare? You dare to offend me with that face and voice?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 28, 2013, 10:15:50 pm
"This is Red Leader, Lock S-foils in attack position."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
file link (http://k2s.cc/file/52bf93b83f181/X_wing_4.craft)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 28, 2013, 10:34:48 pm
That's great, especially since it's SSTO with those new engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on December 29, 2013, 12:08:06 am
So those are the fabled rapier engines I've heard about?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Funk on December 29, 2013, 09:48:41 am
Yes there the rapier engines, and four of them makes it really thirsty, 20 units a minute  is a lot for Jet Fuel tanks.
If you want to try a  SSTO with it then ride the Ram Air Intake up as high as you can then switch engine mode (action group 1 i think).

Once you hit vacuum  you will be forced to use the Reaction Wheels to steer, RCS for take off in on the list.

Edit: RCS thrusters ain't working so im trying it with Rockomax 24-77.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 29, 2013, 02:13:23 pm
RAPIERs switch by themselves when they dont have enough air...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 29, 2013, 03:54:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote

Get on my level.

Artificial gravity ring, somehow managed to get this into space. Then I put a rover in it. Then I made the ring spin with SAS. Then I experienced Munar gravity. THEN I DROVE TO EXPERIENCE KERBIN GRAVITY. IN SPACE.

Yes, the accelerometer works.
Somebody made this.

Took him about 4 hours and 50 tries to get it into orbit. (http://www.ss13.eu/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=342&start=60#p68900)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 29, 2013, 04:11:02 pm
That is sexy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on December 29, 2013, 04:24:06 pm
NovaSilesko made a cool mod for those who desire a new universe to play around in.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63536-0-23-Alternis-Kerbol-Release-thread-v0-0-Dec-25-Mind-the-bugs (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63536-0-23-Alternis-Kerbol-Release-thread-v0-0-Dec-25-Mind-the-bugs)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 29, 2013, 07:58:01 pm
And if you want random craziness for your Kerbol system, Random Solar System (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63851-0-23-WIP-RandomSolarSystem-Alpha-0-2) may be for you. So many good planet mods these days!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 30, 2013, 08:15:48 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on December 29, 2013, 04:24:06 pm
NovaSilesko made a cool mod for those who desire a new universe to play around in.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63536-0-23-Alternis-Kerbol-Release-thread-v0-0-Dec-25-Mind-the-bugs (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63536-0-23-Alternis-Kerbol-Release-thread-v0-0-Dec-25-Mind-the-bugs)
Ooh, that one looks very nice. Such a shame that I probably can't use it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 30, 2013, 11:59:01 pm
Actually, you may find it runs better than stock, due to some optimization of the lighting code NovaSilesko did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 31, 2013, 07:43:38 am
Alternis Kerbol makes everything look so pretty... Jool just looks majestic as it rises above the VAB. The lighting engine makes everything look so warm and the darkness of space even more imposing...

It pretty much makes an already beautiful game even prettier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2013, 08:36:16 am
Ok, some advice requested: I'm playing Kerbal career mode, but I'm having a HELLISH time getting into orbit. My rockets simply spin out of control and are nigh-impossible to steer (I have the most basic solid fuel and liquid fuel engines). I haven't figured out how to do crew reports and/or take samples. Advice plz?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 31, 2013, 08:41:38 am
you need sas

turn it on with t (or was it r?) and never, ever turn it off

also don't dare try turning when solid fuels are on, you will crash and burn

to do crew reports, click the command capsule in flight, it'll have an option there. to take samples, get a kerbal on the ground, click them, take sample (you can recover the kerbal if it's on kerbin at this point for science points)

ps. you need more boosters
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on December 31, 2013, 08:42:49 am
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2013, 08:36:16 am
Ok, some advice requested: I'm playing Kerbal career mode, but I'm having a HELLISH time getting into orbit. My rockets simply spin out of control and are nigh-impossible to steer (I have the most basic solid fuel and liquid fuel engines). I haven't figured out how to do crew reports and/or take samples. Advice plz?

Start with the most basic rocket you possibly can.  Pilot pod (I seem to recall you don't get drones initially?) with parachute(s), atop a single rocket (solid or liquid, your choice).  Practice launching it, separating stages, activating parachutes and returning to land safely.  You can record a crew report by right-clicking (I think) on the pod.  You don't have to be in-flight to do this (but it will give you different results if you do).

You can also get your pilot to climb out of the pod (either before takeoff or after landing!) and wander around taking ground samples on Kerbin itself.  Quick way to get some starting research points.

From there, just start attaching more rockets.  Take it steady, don't make quantum leaps in your construction all at once, or you won't be able to tell which of the 19-gazillion boosters you've just added is the one that's throwing your steering off.  ;)

Later on you get SAS, which takes some of the pain out of steering.

Edit: ninja'd...by LordSlowpoke, ironically!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on December 31, 2013, 02:34:59 pm
Actually, DO make quantum leaps. Quanta are very VERY tiny, you know. Wouldn't want to go overboard until you figured out what does what without having to test every little change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on December 31, 2013, 02:44:32 pm
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2013, 08:36:16 am
Ok, some advice requested: I'm playing Kerbal career mode, but I'm having a HELLISH time getting into orbit. My rockets simply spin out of control and are nigh-impossible to steer (I have the most basic solid fuel and liquid fuel engines). I haven't figured out how to do crew reports and/or take samples. Advice plz?
- Make them smaller.
- What can help with bigger rockets is extra, empty command modules on lower stages, as they have a SAS control each.
- Press "T" to enable SAS (and leave it on until you know what you're doing)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Gravity turns?

Anyhow, I have 26 spare research points (I had a couple of semi-successful flights, one of which almost got into orbit, but I fucked up the periapsis-apoapsis thing), and I already have general rocketry and stability.

Should I save up points and go straight ahead to advanced rocketry, or research survivability and go for flight control?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 31, 2013, 04:02:07 pm
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2013, 03:02:44 pm
Should I save up points and go straight ahead to advanced rocketry, or research survivability and go for flight control?
survivability. It leads to power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 01, 2014, 07:44:28 am
You may find that at a certain point in your launch your thrust gets higher that your rocket can handle causing some instability, restart your launch and try throttling down just before that moment where your last attempt became unstable.
There is precedent in real rocketry, the Saturn V shuts down the center engine shortly before seperation of the first stage because acceleration gets too high as the weight goes down due to the fuel being burned off.
I have had many rockets that had this problem, witb enough SAS you may have a problem with stability but won't notice as the thrusters cancel out instability.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: gomez on January 01, 2014, 11:51:21 am
Quote from: greatorder on December 31, 2013, 03:03:46 pm
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Gravity_turn

I employ the gravity turn myself when playing KSP by manualy holding the required pitch at the required altitude, but the wiki seems to imply that gravity assists with the turn so flight controls are not needed. Have I misread the wiki, or missunderstood gravity turning?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 01, 2014, 12:01:34 pm
Quote from: gomez on January 01, 2014, 11:51:21 am
Quote from: greatorder on December 31, 2013, 03:03:46 pm
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Gravity_turn

I employ the gravity turn myself when playing KSP by manualy holding the required pitch at the required altitude, but the wiki seems to imply that gravity assists with the turn so flight controls are not needed. Have I misread the wiki, or missunderstood gravity turning?
Depends entirely on the flight characteristics of your rocket. Some rockets will pitch over with gravity and make a nice smooth turn on their own.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2014, 12:16:28 pm
gravity turning means exactly that: you don't need to apply pitch to turn the rocket, minimizing drag (if control surface) and dv usage (if vectoring engines)

how does it work? many way to explain. let's try differently than the wiki

if you throw a rock up, it will go up, then down. if you trow at 45 degree, it will move forward and up, then forward and down.

if the rock top is painted white  and you can trow it with no rolling or tumbling, the rock will land with white on top as no force is exerted.

now if you add winglets on the bottom of the rock, winglet will exert drag and try to make the white nose to point forward (imagine the badminton shuttlecock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttlecock).

gravity is changing the velocity vector, winglets at the bottom have the rock(et) follow the vector. (gravity doesn't add turning on its own, you have to have an aereodinamically stable rocket)

a paper plane falls on its nose by the same principle: wings add a torque that tries to minimize the angle off attack (on a stable aircraft as defined by having the center of lift behind the center of mass)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 01, 2014, 04:22:47 pm
Operation "Milking Minmus" was finally a success, even though we had to stop prematurely due to a bugged kerbal. Grand total: 4565 science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2014, 07:50:31 pm
wow! congrats!

did you do it by hopping trough biomes or using a rover? (or both =P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 02, 2014, 08:34:09 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2014, 07:50:31 pm
wow! congrats!

did you do it by hopping trough biomes or using a rover? (or both =P)
I'm trying to find out the right way to use the Science Lab. I built a single rocket that broke down in four parts: One orbiter/return capsule with a Kethane detector (I know, Kethane is cheating), one rover/lifter (no wheels but gets around by flying), a lab/livingspace/fuel base, and a mining/fuel/refinery tower. After having landed all except the orbiter I connected the mining tower to the lab (using KAS), put two kerbals in there, and then had the third one use the rover/lifter loaded with science to hop around to the various biomes (Flats, Lesser Flats, Great Flats, Greater Flats, Lowlands, Midlands, Poles, Slopes, I only missed the highland one), and refuel at the main base after each hop. I only used the Science Lab to reset the goo and materials modules, and returned with about 60 experiments (went up with the rover with 3 kerbals on it, met up with the orbiter, and used that to get home).


Hard parts: the lifter. It's really hard flying around on an unbalanced vehicle. Low thrust and careful use of RCS and reaction wheels for maneuvering, after some practice I got better at it. Using it to lift the heavy Science Lab module (which also had fuel tanks and that big station-module) to the surface and landing it close to the mining tower was even harder. Getting the entire unbalanced contraption into orbit without it falling apart took quite a few tries as well. During the whole mission I felt myself getting better at doing stuff manually, where I used MechJeb before. Rendezvous, docking, landing, maneuvers, I all do them manually now. I do still use the orbital calculator to find planet-to-planet transfer windows, though.


I'm really liking these transformers-type builds with multiple craft in one launch. Yesterday I flew by Duna with a Science Lab orbiter, a lander for Ike, and a small landing probe for Duna. Does anyone know of a mod that has robotic arms or other moving parts? I like trying to build tiny aerodynamic packages for launch and then expand those into big spacethings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on January 02, 2014, 08:46:41 am
Quote from: Siquo on January 02, 2014, 08:34:09 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 01, 2014, 07:50:31 pm
wow! congrats!

did you do it by hopping trough biomes or using a rover? (or both =P)
I'm trying to find out the right way to use the Science Lab. I built a single rocket that broke down in four parts: One orbiter/return capsule with a Kethane detector (I know, Kethane is cheating), one rover/lifter (no wheels but gets around by flying), a lab/livingspace/fuel base, and a mining/fuel/refinery tower. After having landed all except the orbiter I connected the mining tower to the lab (using KAS), put two kerbals in there, and then had the third one use the rover/lifter loaded with science to hop around to the various biomes (Flats, Lesser Flats, Great Flats, Greater Flats, Lowlands, Midlands, Poles, Slopes, I only missed the highland one), and refuel at the main base after each hop. I only used the Science Lab to reset the goo and materials modules, and returned with about 60 experiments (went up with the rover with 3 kerbals on it, met up with the orbiter, and used that to get home).


Hard parts: the lifter. It's really hard flying around on an unbalanced vehicle. Low thrust and careful use of RCS and reaction wheels for maneuvering, after some practice I got better at it. Using it to lift the heavy Science Lab module (which also had fuel tanks and that big station-module) to the surface and landing it close to the mining tower was even harder. Getting the entire unbalanced contraption into orbit without it falling apart took quite a few tries as well. During the whole mission I felt myself getting better at doing stuff manually, where I used MechJeb before. Rendezvous, docking, landing, maneuvers, I all do them manually now. I do still use the orbital calculator to find planet-to-planet transfer windows, though.


I'm really liking these transformers-type builds with multiple craft in one launch. Yesterday I flew by Duna with a Science Lab orbiter, a lander for Ike, and a small landing probe for Duna. Does anyone know of a mod that has robotic arms or other moving parts? I like trying to build tiny aerodynamic packages for launch and then expand those into big spacethings.
Infernal Robotics (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-Techtree-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-11-%2812-26-2013%29) is what you want for movable arms and hinges
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 02, 2014, 08:50:12 am
Quote from: tryrar on January 02, 2014, 08:46:41 am
Infernal Robotics (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-Techtree-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-11-%2812-26-2013%29) is what you want for movable arms and hinges
Oh wow, that looks awesome! Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 02, 2014, 01:44:17 pm
How is Kethane cheating? o-o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 02, 2014, 01:51:48 pm
I think it gives too much fuel for there brains to handle.
Else you are required to ship fuel everywhere...


Christ, I wish the game had resources stock allready...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 02, 2014, 02:59:03 pm
meanwhile KMP has career mode support

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55835-KMP-v0-1-5-0-0-23-wip-alpha
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 02, 2014, 03:28:55 pm
anybody running a server?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ruskin on January 02, 2014, 04:48:14 pm
Maybe....one of my friends was planning on hosting a KMP server before the holidays....got a bit busy with xmas and stuff so we decided to wait a bit

I'll ask him if he wants to host it now that everything's back to normal
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 02, 2014, 07:55:20 pm
So KMP is actually working reasonably well now, huh?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 03, 2014, 09:53:16 am
If KMP is working well and not crashing every 12.3 minutes I'll look into running a server again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on January 03, 2014, 09:59:55 am
Alrite srsly gize.

What shape does a rover need to be so that it doesn't flip over when I'm turning (or sometimes just going straight) at more than 10 m/s?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2014, 10:09:12 am
Trapeozoidal, with enough weight at the bottom to ballast

Look into lesser grippy tires as you would want the rover to skid, not to tumble
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on January 03, 2014, 10:55:39 am
Also, I forget if it's still a problem with the most recent version, but the last few versions had the default keys for wheel control and rotation control be the same keys, which ended up with the rover wanting to tilt in the direction you were going/turning. A rover without a lot of weight or a wide wheel base or with too much torque due to reaction wheels could easily flip because of this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 03, 2014, 11:29:31 am
Solution: switch to docking mode when rovering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 03, 2014, 12:57:19 pm
Yep. And hope the tires arent on backwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 03, 2014, 01:18:42 pm
Mission to Duna (bad planning, but we made it) (http://imgur.com/a/PZ2bN)

And my first attempt at "folding engines" using Infernal Robotics:
(http://i.imgur.com/YCLKd5A.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/LTe0TGz.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2014, 01:55:19 pm
bravo!

extremely impressed.

also, far will apply drag correctly for popup parts.

anyway. is thrust balanced? I couldn't quite make my rockets go straight :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 03, 2014, 02:34:11 pm
Thrust is balanced but in this stage (no struts, long rocket) the center part is wobbly as hell when using the bottom thruster. I also wasn't able to reinforce the center part because it both extends left and right but also up and down, and it increases the length of the rocket. So I use the fold-out nukes to pull it, transfer the fuel from below, and that works.

Struts also don't act as fixed-length but moving (rigid in both length and position, alas), but fuel lines are flexible and extendable. I created the "cargo bay" with parts from KAS and fairings from KW rocketry, that are not supposed to fit together (they clip at the top and don't fit at the bottom).

Pushing a button and seeing the whole contraption extend, flex, and move into position feels kinda awesome though. I was aiming for something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZJczZ6gbVU&feature=player_detailpage#t=82
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 03, 2014, 03:16:25 pm
question here:  how do I set my nav-ball to be relative to another body?  And/or:  How do I set my target to be Kerbin?

My current specific problem is that I have a ton of landers on Minmus that I want to bring home, and I want to do so by burning retrograde relative to Kerbin -- but I cant figure out how to do that without first escaping from Minmus orbit.

And if I escape the wrong way, I waste lots of gas.  I can just eyeball it, but I'd rather recalibrate my nav-ball if possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 03, 2014, 03:54:10 pm
East, IIRC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on January 03, 2014, 04:10:16 pm
Quote from: puke on January 03, 2014, 03:16:25 pm
question here:  how do I set my nav-ball to be relative to another body?  And/or:  How do I set my target to be Kerbin?

My current specific problem is that I have a ton of landers on Minmus that I want to bring home, and I want to do so by burning retrograde relative to Kerbin -- but I cant figure out how to do that without first escaping from Minmus orbit.

And if I escape the wrong way, I waste lots of gas.  I can just eyeball it, but I'd rather recalibrate my nav-ball if possible.
Use nodes. I'll give an update with pictures in a sec once I make a craft real fast and get it to minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 03, 2014, 04:15:57 pm
Quote from: puke on January 03, 2014, 03:16:25 pm
question here:  how do I set my nav-ball to be relative to another body?  And/or:  How do I set my target to be Kerbin?

My current specific problem is that I have a ton of landers on Minmus that I want to bring home, and I want to do so by burning retrograde relative to Kerbin -- but I cant figure out how to do that without first escaping from Minmus orbit.

And if I escape the wrong way, I waste lots of gas.  I can just eyeball it, but I'd rather recalibrate my nav-ball if possible.
Burn prograde relative to minmus when you're in minmus eastern orbit on the side of kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2014, 04:22:33 pm
Quote from: puke on January 03, 2014, 03:16:25 pm
My current specific problem is that I have a ton of landers on Minmus that I want to bring home, and I want to do so by burning retrograde relative to Kerbin -- but I cant figure out how to do that without first escaping from Minmus orbit.


that would be good but not optimal. you'd want to be retrograde on kerbin and prograde on minmus not to fight nimnus gravity directly ascending out of the soi.

as an estimate maneuver that's easy to visualize (not the best, but better):


wait until the lander is facing the direction minmus travel:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

burn 70 deg east until the AP sits at 45 degree (the ap should be between minmus and kerbin, if it is outside the minmus trajectory, then you went in the wrong direction)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now place a maneuver node on the AP and burn prograde until you hit the soi exit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

now, to minimize the fuel usage the trajectory when you exit the SOI should be as much as possible parallel to the minmus orbit trajectory
but you can tweak a bit more to tune the PE in kerbin right there when it costs less
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 03, 2014, 04:26:01 pm
Thanks for the awesome replies, super helpful.  I will be having the sciences soon!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on January 03, 2014, 05:04:47 pm
I do things very similar to LoSboccacc, but I go into an actual orbit first. Anyway, from Minmus lading landing to Kerbin I only ever use at most 600 dV, and quite often I use less.

Firstly, get into an orbit. I chose 110,000 only because I needed to clear a mountain that was very close by. I always point east west. Ideally you would get into a very low orbit to minimize fuel used. LoSboccacc does it the best way without going into an orbit at all, but it requires you wait until your lander is on top of the direction Minmus travels. Also try to make this orbit as close to 0 inclination at possible, but it does not have to be perfect by any standard (you'll see mine was about 5 degrees).
Spoiler: Like so (click to show/hide)

Secondly, set up a node in any direction, and give it enough dV to escape Minmus.

Thirdly, maneuver the node until it is burning in an escape direction retrograde to the direction Minmus travels. You will know it is set up properly when your projected Pe is much lower than Minmus orbit.
Spoiler: Like this (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: NOT like this (click to show/hide)

Fourthly, add/subtract dV and keep moving the node until the "Minmus Escape" icon is right ontop of the line that shows Minmus orbit, but retrograde to Minmus' actual orbit (You will have to zoom out of the map and back in to check and make sure the icon is ontop of/very close to the line) and you have the Pe you want at Kerbin.
Spoiler: Like this (click to show/hide)

Finally, make your burn and make the minor adjustments to finalize Pe.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By doing this, I used roughly 419 dV to go from being on land at Minmus to landing on Kerbin, and that included by my accidental overshot of my node by 1 minute and the adjusted burn that was required to keep me from burning up/pulling over 5G entering the atmosphere (due to a plugin I have that can explode the craft/kill the crew from reentry).

EDIT: Words
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 03, 2014, 05:45:55 pm
It looks like your second picture has you pointed to the West?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on January 03, 2014, 05:57:09 pm
Quote from: puke on January 03, 2014, 05:45:55 pm
It looks like your second picture has you pointed to the West?
Another thing I missed in my edit. You're right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 04, 2014, 12:32:59 am
okay, I get it.  It does not make a difference what side of the planetoid I launch from, as long as I am pointed West.  Then I can just orbit until I am headed retrograde in relation to Kerbin, burn prograde relative to my local orbit, and Bob's your uncle.

Actually, I think the same could be said for always launching East, right?  You'd just start your prograde burn while on the other side of the planetoid?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 04, 2014, 05:12:47 am
Quote from: puke on January 04, 2014, 12:32:59 am
okay, I get it.  It does not make a difference what side of the planetoid I launch from, as long as I am pointed West.  Then I can just orbit until I am headed retrograde in relation to Kerbin, burn prograde relative to my local orbit, and Bob's your uncle.

Actually, I think the same could be said for always launching East, right?  You'd just start your prograde burn while on the other side of the planetoid?

Yes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 04, 2014, 02:26:28 pm
My space station had its second part attached! yay!

Spoiler: The Overkill XXXXL, version "stop crashing into my engine clusters, thank you very much" (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 04, 2014, 02:33:20 pm
Less wobbly solution: orange tanks with the smallest rockomax tanks on the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 04, 2014, 02:45:21 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 04, 2014, 02:33:20 pm
Less wobbly solution: orange tanks with the smallest rockomax tanks on the bottom.
Career mode, I don't have the orange tanks yet :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 04, 2014, 05:01:03 pm
I just unlocked the orange tanks and mainsails in career mode, after I brought home my 8x minimus landers.  Now I just need to send a rescue mission to pick up the pilot of the mothership that dropped the landers off.

I'm actually having a hard time designing a better heavy lifter than the one I had with the grey tanks and skippers.  Maybe I'm being greedy and sloppy now that I have the mainsails, but those big engines just dont send as much up. 

They do send less up lots faster, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 04, 2014, 06:00:01 pm
I use 4x basic engines instead of mainsails. Maybe it's just me but I think it pushes more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 04, 2014, 06:10:52 pm
It's just you. Mainsails have twice the power of that and a better TWR on top.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 04, 2014, 06:13:43 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on January 04, 2014, 06:00:01 pm
I use 4x basic engines instead of mainsails. Maybe it's just me but I think it pushes more.

4x T45 or 4x Skipper?  in the first case, it would be a total max thrust of 800, in the second it would total 2600.  Mainsail pushes 1500, but has a better thrust/weight ratio than the multi-engine combos.

I think the problem is that it has a lower I(sp), significantly lower in atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on January 04, 2014, 06:16:22 pm
The mainsail is better for providing tons of thrust, but yeah, x4 T45s are more efficient, because the Mainsail is a gas-guzzling beast of an engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 05, 2014, 01:37:15 am
Haha! first successful orbital rescue mission! 

Attempt one, accidentally brought 3 kerbalnauts and didnt have room for the rescuee. 

Attempt two, setup a very close intercept but overlooked orbital direction, and was crossing paths with the target ship at high velocity rather than matching paths.

I haven't quite figured out ascending and descending nodes, but was able to eye-ball the intercept distances and got attempt-two turned around (thankfully minmus is small, and didnt take much fuel to reverse orbit) and setup a 7.5km intercept.

Not close enough for docking, but close enough for Herford Kerman to space walk it with an EVA pack.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on January 06, 2014, 10:42:42 pm
Texture Replacer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60961-0-23-TextureReplacer-0-15-(6-Jan)-PERSONALISED-heads-suits) is now able to keep persistent Kerbal customization. And it's still way easier on your system than Universe Replacer. Check it out!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on January 07, 2014, 05:02:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The station is coming on nicely. It's all mine bar the (off axis) docking prongs at the end, which my friend added.
From left to right: Docking prongs, crew units (now home to Jeb and Bob), rcs tanks, adapter, fuel tank (only 3 parts per tank!) and weird dysfunctional tug thing which needs to be removed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 07, 2014, 06:56:02 pm
Thats a lot of torque!  are you planning on spinning it for gravity?

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on January 07, 2014, 07:24:21 pm
Heh. Last time we tried that it took a fortnight to clear out the sick. I assume you're talking about the 4 torque modules at the end - the first two are designed to be part of tug useless since it never hurts for some extra responsivity (there are 2 rtg inside) and the two together come from my rendevouz kit, a launcher designed to put 15t to orbit with that too for rendevouz. Since I've used it for the entire construction of my part of the station, it needs to able to turn 15t quickly (the RCS section I first built it for is in the middle, can be seen earlier in the thread labelled my first docking). So I decidied it would be fun to try and dock with it still attached. But if I build another station, it will have a puke centrifuge module on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 08, 2014, 12:44:42 am
Now I find myself wanting to run a kerbal-Soyuz space program as a result of running a very slow Cold War scenario in Aurora, I'm just upto luna 15/ Apollo 11 and have found bobcats soviet pack and an N1 addon, I'm hoping they work on .23.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 08, 2014, 02:36:54 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on January 06, 2014, 10:42:42 pm
Texture Replacer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60961-0-23-TextureReplacer-0-15-(6-Jan)-PERSONALISED-heads-suits) is now able to keep persistent Kerbal customization. And it's still way easier on your system than Universe Replacer. Check it out!

thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on January 11, 2014, 03:25:58 am
the only downside to having many types and amrks of rockets is that the rocket list will be cluttered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 11, 2014, 09:02:51 am
Quote from: andrea on January 11, 2014, 03:25:58 am
the only downside to having many types and amrks of rockets is that the rocket list will be cluttered.
Yeah I'm still looking for a good parts catalog type mod that works in .23
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 11, 2014, 11:00:09 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 11, 2014, 09:02:51 am
Quote from: andrea on January 11, 2014, 03:25:58 am
the only downside to having many types and amrks of rockets is that the rocket list will be cluttered.
Yeah I'm still looking for a good parts catalog type mod that works in .23

There are two or three that fit your criteria.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 11, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Remember, Kerbin atmosphere ends at 70km, so anything below that will net you a deorbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 11, 2014, 12:50:59 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on January 11, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Remember, Kerbin atmosphere ends at 70km, so anything below that will net you a deorbit.

69,501 is actually the cutoff for drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on January 11, 2014, 03:51:14 pm
That sounds like a good challenge...a manual orbit of 69,502
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 11, 2014, 06:18:41 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on January 11, 2014, 03:51:14 pm
That sounds like a good challenge...a manual orbit of 69,502
You'd probably need to establish a slightly higher orbit and then reduce your orbit. Best done with a tiny tiny probe for minute control.
If half the ship is outside the atmosphere and the other half inside, what happens? Do KSP handles that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on January 11, 2014, 06:32:00 pm
It'll be either the altitude of the command pod or CoM - likely the latter. Besides, there is so little drag past 40-50km. In other news, the 12pollo now only needs RCS and an abort system and her rovers. It's a 12 person Apollo mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 11, 2014, 06:49:38 pm
Quote from: kaian-a-coel on January 11, 2014, 06:18:41 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on January 11, 2014, 03:51:14 pm
That sounds like a good challenge...a manual orbit of 69,502
You'd probably need to establish a slightly higher orbit and then reduce your orbit. Best done with a tiny tiny probe for minute control.
If half the ship is outside the atmosphere and the other half inside, what happens? Do KSP handles that?

You can easily get into orbit with an OKTO, an FL-T200 and a 48-7s, so I'd test with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on January 11, 2014, 09:13:47 pm
Dont forget to bring solar panels, and maybe a battery.

Replacing the FL-T200 with a 400 will also work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 12, 2014, 11:25:13 am
So, EnterElysium just dived into Jool and survived with a craft that was definitely not designed for it.

It was exciting. ;3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 14, 2014, 04:42:46 pm
When you go to Duna to land, get up again, then have enough fuel to pass by Eve and land on Gilly (which is damn hard btw) and can still make it home, you brought too much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on January 14, 2014, 05:41:41 pm
So my SO is lookin for tutorial videos that are more recent then 2012, for just building a successful rocket.

My google fu is not finding a lot of that out there, most of the newer stuff seems aimed toward probes and space planes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 05:42:58 pm
Quote from: MrWiggles on January 14, 2014, 05:41:41 pm
So my SO is lookin for tutorial videos that are more recent then 2012, for just building a successful rocket.

My google fu is not finding a lot of that out there, most of the newer stuff seems aimed toward probes and space planes.
Define successful. You can get to orbit with a tank, engine and command pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrWiggles on January 14, 2014, 05:43:27 pm
Her rockets explode on the launch pad or in the air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 14, 2014, 05:46:30 pm
Struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on January 14, 2014, 05:47:14 pm
Quote from: MrWiggles on January 14, 2014, 05:43:27 pm
Her rockets explode on the launch pad or in the air.

Start simple...what sort of design are you using? sounds unbalanced or like you have too many engines making control impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
Quote from: Siquo on January 14, 2014, 04:42:46 pm
When you go to Duna to land, get up again, then have enough fuel to pass by Eve and land on Gilly (which is damn hard btw) and can still make it home, you brought too much.

I didnt bring enough. 

My first interplanetary craft went to Eve, aerobraked (was trying to capture but failed), missed Gilly (was hoping for an EVA touchdown), but was able to eyeball a Jool encounter out of the resulting trajectory.

Encountered Jool, aerobraked, encountered three moons (not enough DV to orbit and EVA to the smaller ones, but radioed back some orbital EVA reports).

Currently orbiting Jool in a highly elliptical fashion, with barely a trickle of fuel left.  I was hoping to get this thing back to Kerbin, but I think unless I find a better way to calculate gravity assists and transfer windows, the little guy is doomed.

I did the whole thing by eyeballing nodes and without waiting for planets to line up for good windows.

It has been flying with nothing but an atomic rocket motor and a couple of batteries and a radio -- no solar was available when I launched him so he cant recharge without thrusting, didnt have any RCS or any scientific instruments.  Little dude is a hero.

Just not enough gas to get home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 14, 2014, 05:52:14 pm
Quote from: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
atomic rocket motor
 
Quote from: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
no solar was available when I launched him
 
what bullshit tech tree is this
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on January 14, 2014, 05:53:23 pm
Quote from: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
Quote from: Siquo on January 14, 2014, 04:42:46 pm
When you go to Duna to land, get up again, then have enough fuel to pass by Eve and land on Gilly (which is damn hard btw) and can still make it home, you brought too much.

I didnt bring enough. 

My first interplanetary craft went to Eve, aerobraked (was trying to capture but failed), missed Gilly (was hoping for an EVA touchdown), but was able to eyeball a Jool encounter out of the resulting trajectory.

Encountered Jool, aerobraked, encountered three moons (not enough DV to orbit and EVA to the smaller ones, but radioed back some orbital EVA reports).

Currently orbiting Jool in a highly elliptical fashion, with barely a trickle of fuel left.  I was hoping to get this thing back to Kerbin, but I think unless I find a better way to calculate gravity assists and transfer windows, the little guy is doomed.

I did the whole thing by eyeballing nodes and without waiting for planets to line up for good windows.

It has been flying with nothing but an atomic rocket motor and a couple of batteries and a radio -- no solar was available when I launched him so he cant recharge without thrusting, didnt have any RCS or any scientific instruments.  Little dude is a hero.

Just not enough gas to get home.

Land on Jool and get a rescue lander to him? Or perhaps a craft that can join up and dock and take him on?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 14, 2014, 05:54:57 pm
Depends on why it explodes. Probably cause parts collide with each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:57:48 pm
Quote from: MrWiggles on January 14, 2014, 05:41:41 pm
So my SO is lookin for tutorial videos that are more recent then 2012, for just building a successful rocket.

My google fu is not finding a lot of that out there, most of the newer stuff seems aimed toward probes and space planes.

There is nothing wrong with the older tutorials.  Scott Manley's are some of the best.  He has one in career mode for the latest version, but it is not a beginner video and he uses some advanced "hot staging" techniques which are not really good for beginner.

If you feel like you need it in the latest version, this guy walks it through step by step real slow:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekxaAvXC7Rk
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 14, 2014, 06:00:02 pm
Quote from: Twi on January 14, 2014, 05:52:14 pm
Quote from: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
atomic rocket motor
 
Quote from: puke on January 14, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
no solar was available when I launched him
 
what bullshit tech tree is this

Stock?  The first Solar Panel is in "Electrics" which is no where near any of the rocketry or atomic related stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:01:03 pm
Making a nuclear rocket has nothing to do with solar panels. Why would it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 14, 2014, 06:07:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:01:03 pm
Making a nuclear rocket has nothing to do with solar panels. Why would it?
Okay so I'll buy that it's not REQUIRED but seriously having electrics is pretty low tier and incredibly helpful. The requisite is just  Survivability, IIRC. Not too hard at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:08:37 pm
Quote from: Twi on January 14, 2014, 06:07:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:01:03 pm
Making a nuclear rocket has nothing to do with solar panels. Why would it?
Okay so I'll buy that it's not REQUIRED but seriously having electrics is pretty low tier and incredibly helpful. The requisite is just  Survivability, IIRC. Not too hard at all.
This is what happens when people have different priorities than you. They do something you don't expect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 14, 2014, 06:10:46 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:08:37 pm
Quote from: Twi on January 14, 2014, 06:07:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 14, 2014, 06:01:03 pm
Making a nuclear rocket has nothing to do with solar panels. Why would it?
Okay so I'll buy that it's not REQUIRED but seriously having electrics is pretty low tier and incredibly helpful. The requisite is just  Survivability, IIRC. Not too hard at all.
This is what happens when people have different priorities than you. They do something you don't expect.
Yes but electrics is not a huge detour and pretty cheap regardless and if you're going to go interplanetary which is pretty much the point of the atomic rocket motors you would still expect to have at least some degree of electricity so you could, y'know, turn without wasting precious fuel and also if you're a rare sane person for probes but

whaaaaaaaaaat
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 14, 2014, 06:17:05 pm
well I certainly had time to research solar power and lots of other crap when it was on it's two-year trip to Jool...

(sent this crazy eight-lander science probe to Minmus... was originally planned for Mun, but the landers did not have enough fuel so I had to load a quicksave and send it to Minmus instead -- Mothership pilot ended up stranded in Minmus orbit had to be rescued with a later mission)

Anyway, I was pretty much in a rush for the heavy rockets so I skipped big chunks of the tech tree.  It turned out to be a mistake, as my low tech heavy lifter ended up being better than any mainsail type design that I was able to create.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 01:11:20 am
I just finished my first successful Mun flyby in career mode! I know that's kid stuff to you all, but still, I was excited. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 15, 2014, 01:34:25 am
Congrats, I still have yet to successfully land anywhere but kerbin, however ice gotten ok at changing orbits, I still get confused when I need to burn normal or anti normal, whatever that means =/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 15, 2014, 02:42:25 am
Minmus and the Mun, that's all I've ever successfully landed at, not counting kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2014, 06:41:28 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 15, 2014, 01:34:25 am
Congrats, I still have yet to successfully land anywhere but kerbin, however ice gotten ok at changing orbits, I still get confused when I need to burn normal or anti normal, whatever that means =/
iirc normal = north, antinormal is south. Basically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on January 15, 2014, 06:48:31 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2014, 06:41:28 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 15, 2014, 01:34:25 am
Congrats, I still have yet to successfully land anywhere but kerbin, however ice gotten ok at changing orbits, I still get confused when I need to burn normal or anti normal, whatever that means =/
iirc normal = north, antinormal is south. Basically.
Normal is the top triangle marker, antinormal is the bottom triangle marker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 15, 2014, 07:54:00 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2014, 06:41:28 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 15, 2014, 01:34:25 am
Congrats, I still have yet to successfully land anywhere but kerbin, however ice gotten ok at changing orbits, I still get confused when I need to burn normal or anti normal, whatever that means =/
iirc normal = north, antinormal is south. Basically.


Except when you are tourning counterclockwise. Or clockwise. Right hand rule!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 15, 2014, 10:29:30 am
Normal is the top of the navball and antinormal is the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 10:48:19 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 15, 2014, 01:34:25 am
Congrats, I still have yet to successfully land anywhere but kerbin, however ice gotten ok at changing orbits, I still get confused when I need to burn normal or anti normal, whatever that means =/
I didn't land, I just did some science and an EVA within the range of the Mun. Landing is my next goal, but I have no idea how to do so, other than a bunch of small engines and a retrograde burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 10:49:33 am
You also need landing legs.

It's important to get low on your approach and try to burn retrograde to stop horizontal movement at perimun. That way, you fall less and use less fuel on the way down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 15, 2014, 10:53:44 am
Quote from: miauw62 on January 15, 2014, 10:29:30 am
Normal is the top of the navball and antinormal is the bottom.

Nope. Bottom (center orlf the red part) is usually radial. Top (center of the blue part) is antiradial.

Can move from the dead center for eccentrical orbits
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 15, 2014, 01:57:15 pm
Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 10:49:33 am
It's important to get low on your approach and try to burn retrograde to stop horizontal movement at perimun. That way, you fall less and use less fuel on the way down.

What does this mean?  I've been having a hard time with Mun landings -- I can get down there but never have enough fuel to get back.

Here are some of the orbital options I can think of, can someone explain which ones are best to start with for a landing and why?:

- low circular:  you are close to the surface, but need to burn off a LOT of horizontal velocity.  The lower you are, the more fuel you have to burn to zero out your horizontal velocity.

- high circular:  not as much horizontal velocity to cancel, but you'll need to burn more to counter gravity as you come down harder

- elliptical, descending from apoapsis: as 'high circular' but with almost no horizontal velocity to counter and a huge ton of acceleration due to gravity

- elliptical, descending from periapsis: just like low-circular but far worse in terms of horizontal velocity.  This is probably never a good idea unless you're aerobraking or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on January 15, 2014, 02:03:45 pm
Just try to put your periapsis over where you want to land and move it as near to the surface as possible (beware of mountains though). It doesn't matter where your apoapsis is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 15, 2014, 04:03:11 pm
I prefer low circular, once you cancel horizontal velocity you're set.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 15, 2014, 05:50:22 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on January 15, 2014, 02:21:26 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 01:11:20 am
I just finished my first successful Mun flyby in career mode! I know that's kid stuff to you all, but still, I was excited. ^_^

On the contrary, it's always fun to welcome someone else to SPAAAAAAAAAACE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on January 15, 2014, 06:02:31 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on January 15, 2014, 05:50:22 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on January 15, 2014, 02:21:26 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 01:11:20 am
I just finished my first successful Mun flyby in career mode! I know that's kid stuff to you all, but still, I was excited. ^_^

On the contrary, it's always fun to welcome someone else to SPAAAAAAAAAACE.
*Ahem*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 10:22:04 pm
So, I have a question with something that's been plaguing me.

I built a large 5-stage rocket mostly held together by duct tape struts. In build mode, everything sets up nicely.

Then, when I get it to the launchpad, the struts disappear and the whole damned thing falls apart. What's the deal with disappearing struts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 10:35:23 pm
Struts disappear when things break apart.

Note that this includes staging, just in case you didn't know that you could build struts cross-stage without needing to blow anything up :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 15, 2014, 10:54:06 pm
We'd need to see a screenshot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 11:18:49 pm
Quote from: Descan on January 15, 2014, 10:54:06 pm
We'd need to see a screenshot.
Here ya go!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 10:35:23 pm
Struts disappear when things break apart.

Note that this includes staging, just in case you didn't know that you could build struts cross-stage without needing to blow anything up :P
I actually did know that, but nothing seems to be breaking apart. The rocket hits the launchpad, and then there are cans rolling about everywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 15, 2014, 11:23:10 pm
...

Okay, that's... Why. Whyyyy

That's too much over-kill. Like seriously. :I WHY SO MANY ROCKETS? The game can't handle that much, that's why it's going wrong, the physics are going "Fuck this." and things are clipping in to each other. You don't need THAT MANY ROCKETS to even get to fucking Jool, or... you know, the entire system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 11:25:12 pm
Quote from: greatorder on January 15, 2014, 11:21:51 pm
Given how large it is, I won't be surprised if the physics engine is just having an aneurysm and dying, causing it to collapse.

Anyways, that really, REALLY needs more struts. It needs to look like a Faraday cage.
Can do. I was worried that the struts would affect the aerodynamic profile, but the game doesn't seem to care too much, as far as I can tell.

Quote from: Descan on January 15, 2014, 11:23:10 pm
...

Okay, that's... Why. Whyyyy

That's too much over-kill. Like seriously. :I WHY SO MANY ROCKETS? The game can't handle that much, that's why it's going wrong, the physics are going "Fuck this." and things are clipping in to each other. You don't need THAT MANY ROCKETS to even get to fucking Jool, or... you know, the entire system.
There is no such thing as overkill. There is only open fire and reload. Also, I got something very similar, but much smaller, to outside the Mun's orbit and back. So, I decided to go bigger.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 11:29:23 pm
Okay, there's a trick to all this. SRBs are kinda junk for going large distances, especially staged like that. You want liquid fuels staged with fuel connectors flowing inward ("asparagus staging"), like so:
Code: [Select]
    O
    V
    O
    V
O>O>O<O<O
    ^
    O
    ^
    O

And that's for a particularly heavy-duty lifter, using mainsails.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 11:43:59 pm
Okay. So, what you're telling me is: Do it again, but be more fuel efficient. :P

Anyway, I knocked off the outermost rockets on the first stage, and it flew! Without breaking apart! The solid rockets alone got my apoapsis to about 700km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 16, 2014, 12:00:54 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on January 15, 2014, 11:43:59 pm
Okay. So, what you're telling me is: Do it again, but be more fuel efficient. :P

It's also way, way, way more TWR efficient, which means way more delta V efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 16, 2014, 12:16:04 am
Also, from personal experience, trying to land something with a center of mass that high (presuming that the landing legs are the bottom of your lander) is likely to result in your lander tipping over and exploding if you have even the slightest horizontal velocity, and your Kerbals may or may not survive to be stranded on the Mun for all eternity.

That said, I'm going to see if I can finally get a Mun landing in storymode and bring the poor kerbalnaut back this time. Then, I plan to establish an autonomous mothership... thing that'll drop a retrieval probe from orbit so the other poor bastard down there can come home.

Then, Minmus. Oh boy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 16, 2014, 12:40:47 am
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 16, 2014, 12:16:04 am
Also, from personal experience, trying to land something with a center of mass that high (presuming that the landing legs are the bottom of your lander) is likely to result in your lander tipping over and exploding if you have even the slightest horizontal velocity, and your Kerbals may or may not survive to be stranded on the Mun for all eternity.

That said, I'm going to see if I can finally get a Mun landing in storymode and bring the poor kerbalnaut back this time. Then, I plan to establish an autonomous mothership... thing that'll drop a retrieval probe from orbit so the other poor bastard down there can come home.

Then, Minmus. Oh boy.
Minmus is actually far easier to land onto and come back from.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 16, 2014, 02:43:07 am
Spoiler: I regret nothing. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 16, 2014, 02:59:28 am
Launched my Kerbal Konstruction Station. Uses Extra-Planetary Launchpads (with Kethane), can't wait to start using it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2014, 02:59:34 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 11:29:23 pm
fuel connectors flowing inward ("asparagus staging"), like so:


asparagus is with fuel connector spiraling inward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTKIWMWhAo&feature=youtu.be

(there's a plugin for that! cool!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 16, 2014, 03:26:15 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2014, 02:59:34 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 11:29:23 pm
fuel connectors flowing inward ("asparagus staging"), like so:


asparagus is with fuel connector spiraling inward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTKIWMWhAo&feature=youtu.be

(there's a plugin for that! cool!)
Oh that is handy.... Asparagus staging takes so much time to do by hand, matching the decouplers with the right stage, and I often use decoupling SRBs that need to be split up as well...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 16, 2014, 08:50:43 am
I found sometimes with insanely overdone rocket stacks that the weight just causes some stacks to unglue and fall off, the solution is of course more struts, also more launch clamps can help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 16, 2014, 10:22:15 am
Quote from: Siquo on January 16, 2014, 03:26:15 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2014, 02:59:34 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 11:29:23 pm
fuel connectors flowing inward ("asparagus staging"), like so:


asparagus is with fuel connector spiraling inward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTKIWMWhAo&feature=youtu.be

(there's a plugin for that! cool!)
Oh that is handy.... Asparagus staging takes so much time to do by hand, matching the decouplers with the right stage, and I often use decoupling SRBs that need to be split up as well...
I agreement with this sentiment. Adjusting seperatrons is annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 16, 2014, 10:47:18 am
I can also recommend KW rocketry mod, they have medium and heavy struts that are heavier but can hold more weight. Some say cheat, I say less work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on January 16, 2014, 06:45:21 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 16, 2014, 02:59:34 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 15, 2014, 11:29:23 pm
fuel connectors flowing inward ("asparagus staging"), like so:


asparagus is with fuel connector spiraling inward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQTKIWMWhAo&feature=youtu.be

(there's a plugin for that! cool!)
Why did i fragging read there's an app for that too! ....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 20, 2014, 04:14:40 pm
so I want me some challenge, what were the rules for the Scott Manley's Reusable Space Program?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 20, 2014, 07:08:14 pm
One VAB launch a week and a metric fuck-ton of mods!
SSTOs can be launched in between rocket launches though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 20, 2014, 07:15:51 pm
Quote from: ank on January 20, 2014, 07:08:14 pm
One VAB launch a week and a metric fuck-ton of mods!
SSTOs can be launched in between rocket launches though.
You forgot the most important part, the 're-usable' bit. Basically, everything launched has to be able to be returned intact. I think the exception was SRBs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 20, 2014, 08:27:01 pm
Also, no space crap. No shrouds jettisoned, no dropped stages (unless you recover them fully intact), no exploding ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on January 20, 2014, 10:20:10 pm
Quote from: ank on January 20, 2014, 07:08:14 pm
One VAB launch a week and a metric fuck-ton of mods!
SSTOs can be launched in between rocket launches though.
Isn't that the interstellar quest series rather than the re-usable space program one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 21, 2014, 01:32:29 am
Quote from: Vattic on January 20, 2014, 10:20:10 pm
Quote from: ank on January 20, 2014, 07:08:14 pm
One VAB launch a week and a metric fuck-ton of mods!
SSTOs can be launched in between rocket launches though.
Isn't that the interstellar quest series rather than the re-usable space program one?
On a related note, if you haven't already, do the interstellar quest with all the mods. It's an amazing experience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 21, 2014, 08:38:44 am
Quote from: Vattic on January 20, 2014, 10:20:10 pm
Quote from: ank on January 20, 2014, 07:08:14 pm
One VAB launch a week and a metric fuck-ton of mods!
SSTOs can be launched in between rocket launches though.
Isn't that the interstellar quest series rather than the re-usable space program one?

Indeed it is
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 21, 2014, 02:26:40 pm
Also, Scott Manley said that the KSP Interstellar Alcubierre Drive is non-overpowered and... I kinda disagree. It allows the Delta-V budget for launch vehicles to be ridiculously low, requiring only that you get out of the atmosphere rather than requiring getting into orbit. Just go straight up until you're at 70 km, activate the drive, oberth affect means you're now at escape velocity once you've deactivated it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 21, 2014, 03:08:05 pm
Yeah, but then what. You're quite likely to never get into orbit around any other body except the sun if you don't plan ahead. Perhaps you can, but it'll take a lot of work/time. Your velocity relative to any particular body could be astronomically high once you enter its SOI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 21, 2014, 03:34:46 pm
I meant to use the Alcubierre drive only to get out of Kerbin's SOI, allowing for huge amounts more delta-V to get to wherever you want outside Kerbin's SOI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 21, 2014, 03:45:25 pm
It's not that hard to get out of Kerbin's SOI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 21, 2014, 03:48:20 pm
I don't know, saving on 2500 delta V or so is difficult to pass up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 21, 2014, 04:09:02 pm
do interstellar and near future propulsion pack work well together?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on January 21, 2014, 04:36:46 pm
Does the Alcubierre drive not require a fuel source of its own?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 21, 2014, 04:50:42 pm
It requires electricity, which you can generate enough of just getting into space to get to .1c for the, oh, second you need to to get to a place where you're going at escape velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 21, 2014, 05:53:51 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64569-How-well-would-near-future-and-interstellar-mix

found the answer, and it is no.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 21, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
So are there any parts in the default game that act as a failsafe if your probes accidentally run out of batteries? That tends to be pretty infuriating - oh, I'll just aerobrake back to Kerbin with all this science and pack up the solar panels so they don't break, except I'm now somehow getting an accidental gravity assist from the Mun. Nevermind, I'll burn that off, wait what do you mean I'm out of batteries and now hurtling into solar orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 21, 2014, 10:23:15 pm
That would be the thermoelectric thingie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 21, 2014, 10:55:19 pm
Free return trajectory by making sure you go around the moon in the opposite direction of its orbit instead of the same direction
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 21, 2014, 11:16:48 pm
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 21, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
So are there any parts in the default game that act as a failsafe if your probes accidentally run out of batteries? That tends to be pretty infuriating - oh, I'll just aerobrake back to Kerbin with all this science and pack up the solar panels so they don't break, except I'm now somehow getting an accidental gravity assist from the Mun. Nevermind, I'll burn that off, wait what do you mean I'm out of batteries and now hurtling into solar orbit?

Use the RTGs (radioelectric thermoisotope generators, I think) for all the power you need short of beaming large amounts of data to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on January 21, 2014, 11:26:45 pm
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 21, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
So are there any parts in the default game that act as a failsafe if your probes accidentally run out of batteries? That tends to be pretty infuriating - oh, I'll just aerobrake back to Kerbin with all this science and pack up the solar panels so they don't break, except I'm now somehow getting an accidental gravity assist from the Mun. Nevermind, I'll burn that off, wait what do you mean I'm out of batteries and now hurtling into solar orbit?

My method with probes is that I don't accidentally anything. Everything is well planned out... even if that plan is to wing it. You must go into it understanding that because of the relatively smaller size of everything involved, the margins of error are smaller. For a full manned mission you'll bring plenty of fuel along because you need plenty of fuel just to do the things you need to do. So if something goes wrong, you've got a lot more resources to play around with in order to get things back in one piece.

Yeah, you always have the option of overengineering the crap out of a probe... and I suppose that might be a very kerbal thing to do... but at the same time, if you're doing that, why not just send a kerbal instead?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 22, 2014, 12:19:04 am
So, I'm just now (in career mode) to the point that I can build planes. They fly! They land, mostly! Sometimes even intact! Mostly only partially intact, though.

Suggestions on what to do with planes? I've gotten data from all the Kerbin biomes except badlands, because I can't seem to find them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on January 22, 2014, 12:24:39 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on January 22, 2014, 12:19:04 am
I've gotten data from all the Kerbin biomes except badlands, because I can't seem to find them.
Head east. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/5/51/KerbinBiomeMap.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 22, 2014, 12:28:34 am
Quote from: sluissa on January 21, 2014, 11:26:45 pm
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 21, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
So are there any parts in the default game that act as a failsafe if your probes accidentally run out of batteries? That tends to be pretty infuriating - oh, I'll just aerobrake back to Kerbin with all this science and pack up the solar panels so they don't break, except I'm now somehow getting an accidental gravity assist from the Mun. Nevermind, I'll burn that off, wait what do you mean I'm out of batteries and now hurtling into solar orbit?

My method with probes is that I don't accidentally anything. Everything is well planned out... even if that plan is to wing it. You must go into it understanding that because of the relatively smaller size of everything involved, the margins of error are smaller. For a full manned mission you'll bring plenty of fuel along because you need plenty of fuel just to do the things you need to do. So if something goes wrong, you've got a lot more resources to play around with in order to get things back in one piece.

Yeah, you always have the option of overengineering the crap out of a probe... and I suppose that might be a very kerbal thing to do... but at the same time, if you're doing that, why not just send a kerbal instead?
I do plan ahead. The plan is usually "deploy solar panels when I'm not aerobraking so they don't fall off." I'm just a forgetful bastard is all, and don't notice until I've time-warped halfway through the orbit and see the Munar "assist".

Also, I haven't acquired enough science for RTGs yet, but it seems that they're only a few missions to various astronomical bodies away, so I might hit up Moho to finish it off once I (finally) finish rescuing that poor Kerbal from the greedy surface of the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 22, 2014, 12:28:43 am
... Is that a smiley face?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 22, 2014, 02:07:22 am
Since they weigh so little, I always place one of those cheap-o non moving solar panels in every direction, so I at least get some power no matter which way I'm facing. It can be a life saver.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 22, 2014, 02:41:26 am
exept if you need to circularize during an eclipse :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on January 22, 2014, 03:04:05 am
If you need to circularize during an eclipse and your battery isnt sufficient to keep your probe alive for the duration of said eclipse, folding solar panels aren't going to help you either. One of those thermoelectric doohickies would be plenty to keep it responsive, at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 22, 2014, 10:19:58 am
Or just use the flat non-deployed solars on the surface. Those won't rip off unless you've got something like deadly reentry burning them off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on January 22, 2014, 11:16:27 am
I'm curious, do any other people here listen to music while they play this? A lot of the time I listen to Rick Astley while flying, because it fits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on January 22, 2014, 11:25:59 am
I use my time with KSP to catch up on TV shows. Just finished Red Dwarf, for instance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 11:56:40 am
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on January 22, 2014, 11:25:59 am
I use my time with KSP to catch up on TV shows. Just finished Red Dwarf, for instance.

With MechJeb you can catch up on all your favorite shows.

I often have LP's on. Rarely Anime because I have to read subtitles. I should probably get back to original Doctor Who. Sometimes I read a book.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 22, 2014, 04:30:05 pm
Guys...

One of the tweakable parts are chutes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 22, 2014, 04:31:07 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on January 22, 2014, 11:16:27 am
I'm curious, do any other people here listen to music while they play this? A lot of the time I listen to Rick Astley while flying, because it fits.
My official launch song is "High Speed Dirt" by Megadeth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 22, 2014, 04:33:45 pm
I'm guilty of playing "What is love?" during atmospheric re-enty, sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 22, 2014, 04:30:05 pm
Guys...

One of the tweakable parts are chutes...

Yup. You get to mess with the elevation that they deploy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 22, 2014, 04:41:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 22, 2014, 04:30:05 pm
Guys...

One of the tweakable parts are chutes...

Yup. You get to mess with the elevation that they deploy.
Waitwaitwaitwait...you can tweak parts? How?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 22, 2014, 04:42:08 pm
right click
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 22, 2014, 04:44:07 pm
In the actiongroups screen. Or atleast thats where I have found it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 22, 2014, 04:45:12 pm
You can also right click in the VAB
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 05:05:18 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on January 22, 2014, 04:41:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 22, 2014, 04:30:05 pm
Guys...

One of the tweakable parts are chutes...

Yup. You get to mess with the elevation that they deploy.
Waitwaitwaitwait...you can tweak parts? How?

Yes. Aside from the hybrid engine and lab the tweakables are just about the only reason 0.23 exists.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on January 22, 2014, 05:54:38 pm
I am still waiting for built-in ressource system... :(, they teased us with the ressource design thingy yet still no system in place. Oh well, i know its coming i should hang on to that instead hahaha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 22, 2014, 05:57:23 pm
Except that it's not coming? They're working on multiplayer instead. Kethane's making strides now that they know they're not going to be made obsolete, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 22, 2014, 05:59:51 pm
Kethane is just one resource. Other mods add several more, sometimes not using kethane's code.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 23, 2014, 05:53:28 pm
So does attaching lights to your spacecraft make docking to a station orbiting on the eclipsed side of a planet any easier, or is it still insanely difficult?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 23, 2014, 06:38:52 pm
Somewhat easier, but docking (and rendezvousing) isn't that hard once you got the trick. The trick being you can set the speed above the navball relative to your target, and match speeds with your target just by burning retrograde until your speed reaches zero (as pro-and retrograde markers will also be relative to your target).

A good location of your RCS ports is also important (don't mix rotation with translation), and you're all set.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2014, 07:32:03 pm
Another good thing to know is that you can get almost anywhere you need to once in orbit just using RCS thrusters. Often using the main engine for orbital maneuvering is way too powerful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2014, 10:37:08 am
I'm building a "planetary hover-rocket" in order to gather whichever data I can muster from Kerbin, and in order to practice landing and taking off from Mun (about which, science career info and R&D hints would be appretiated btw). I have had moderate success with the smallest engine, and am now testing alternatives...


Spoiler (click to show/hide)


So I was wondering: is there any way to control this alternate model?



Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2014, 10:43:20 am
there is a mod for balancing the center of thrust and all other things thrust related

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/38069-0-23-Davon-Throttle-Control-systems-mod-%28major-improvement-complete-overhaul%29

and there is a simpler one for hoverthings:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66593-Throttle-Controlled-Avionics (unsure about compatibility of this one)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 24, 2014, 12:35:12 pm
You could use thrust limiting on the horizontal rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 12:36:11 pm
Is... there some reason you can't just tip the lander slightly to move? Does the engine serve some other purpose?

It's sitting so high compared to where I believe the CoM would be that you will get rotation when it fires.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2014, 01:17:01 pm
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 23, 2014, 05:53:28 pm
So does attaching lights to your spacecraft make docking to a station orbiting on the eclipsed side of a planet any easier, or is it still insanely difficult?

I suck at docking.  But I do believe that if you attached lights to the station instead of the ship, you might be getting somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 01:20:39 pm
So is it the rendezvous or the docking that people have trouble with? Is it the mental reorientation necessary to use the translation controls that people don't get?

I don't understand why it is so hard for some.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on January 24, 2014, 01:59:52 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 01:20:39 pm
So is it the rendezvous or the docking that people have trouble with? Is it the mental reorientation necessary to use the translation controls that people don't get?

I don't understand why it is so hard for some.
+1

It took me about half a second to teach myself the translation controls, but much longer with doing a rendezvous, but that might just be me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 02:11:44 pm
Oh yeah, getting the rendezvous orbit can sometimes be a pain in the ass if you launched on a tight deltaV budget, or mis-timed the launch. Sometimes it's a pain anyway because orbits.

I've never ever had trouble with the actual docking bit though once I am within 500m of the target. I tested high for visual and spatial acuity when I joined the military, so maybe that's why I just 'get' it? In any case I'm trying to understand what part others have trouble with so I can help, not bragging about my own meagre abilities. You should see me trying to land anything...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2014, 02:24:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 01:20:39 pm
So is it the rendezvous or the docking that people have trouble with? Is it the mental reorientation necessary to use the translation controls that people don't get?

I don't understand why it is so hard for some.

Its the rendezvous, for me.  I find words of French origin to be especially disorienting, as their pronunciation rules don't conform to my norms.

Also, I have a hard time meeting other objects in orbit. 

If I could get near it, I could probably dock okay.  The last time I sent out a rescue mission, I settled for getting within a few hundred clicks and covered the remaining gap with an EVA pack.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 24, 2014, 02:46:13 pm
You do know click is short for kilometer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 24, 2014, 03:06:19 pm
A distance which would be a bit difficult to cover with an EVA pack, to be sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 24, 2014, 03:10:03 pm
I don't understand what's difficult about getting the craft near each other. The hard part is covering the metres, not the kilometres. Docking is a bitch when the target craft is rotating (which is apparently all the time).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 03:12:00 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 24, 2014, 03:10:03 pm
I don't understand what's difficult about getting the craft near each other. The hard part is covering the metres, not the kilometres. Docking is a bitch when the target craft is rotating (which is apparently all the time).
Orient your target docking node to normal or antinormal and it will stay on the same axis allowing you to approach.

So long as the rotation is only on one axis though you can mostly compensate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 24, 2014, 03:12:57 pm
SAS helps greatly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 24, 2014, 03:33:23 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 03:12:00 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 24, 2014, 03:10:03 pm
I don't understand what's difficult about getting the craft near each other. The hard part is covering the metres, not the kilometres. Docking is a bitch when the target craft is rotating (which is apparently all the time).
Orient your target docking node to normal or antinormal and it will stay on the same axis allowing you to approach.

So long as the rotation is only on one axis though you can mostly compensate.

also sometimes it is better to tab to the other ship and dock it instead of chasing it spinning
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 24, 2014, 03:43:33 pm
I still have to learn to orbit without dying, burteforce or debugmenu... The problem is wither not enough thrust or it falling apart or both...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2014, 04:40:47 pm
Ok, so which one do I research?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Quote from: Aseaheru on January 24, 2014, 03:43:33 pm
I still have to learn to orbit without dying, burteforce or debugmenu... The problem is wither not enough thrust or it falling apart or both...

My orbital flights improved DRAMATICALLY once I got my first reaction wheel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 24, 2014, 04:45:07 pm
They dont help me much.

SCIENCE. GET IT.

THEN LANDING GEAR OR SOLARS.

SOLARS BEFORE GEAR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2014, 04:46:18 pm
Err, which one of the greyed ones should I get?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on January 24, 2014, 05:03:02 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 01:20:39 pm
So is it the rendezvous or the docking that people have trouble with? Is it the mental reorientation necessary to use the translation controls that people don't get?

I don't understand why it is so hard for some.

The part where you put your RCS modules in weird places and their thrust is now uneven, so the craft spins in ways you don't expect at the slightest provocation. You can't be arsed to relaunch either.

'tis a bitch I tell you.

In other news, materials studies near the Mün and Minmus nets ALL the science. I'm practically salivating over how much any other planet will give. Or even a landing on the Mün or Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2014, 05:25:26 pm
Quote from: ank on January 24, 2014, 02:46:13 pm
You do know click is short for kilometer?

Yes!  Yes I do!  I guess I should have spelled it Klik?  How does that work? 

I was like 700Km off, but you'd be amazed the DV in those EVA packs.  I was sure the little dude was going to die, it was probably the happiest moment of my KSPing when I actually managed to reach the target.  I only had to lead it a little bit.


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2014, 05:32:57 pm
Quote from: Silfurdreki on January 24, 2014, 05:03:02 pm
In other news, materials studies near the Mün and Minmus nets ALL the science. I'm practically salivating over how much any other planet will give. Or even a landing on the Mün or Minmus.

Oh man, I opened up so much with just EVA reports over each biome of Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus.  Material and Goo studies from the surface of Minmus got most of the rest, and I think I could finish the rest of the tech tree if I could just reliably get landers back from the Mun.

I've built plenty of Mun landers and have no problem getting them there, but I have a hard time landing efficiently enough that I can make the return trip.  especially with 2x materials bays..  I expect lots of people use mechajeb for their landings to obtain better fuel efficiency? 

I do everything with the mk-1 eyeball and throw trivial things like launch and transfer windows to the wind.  But thats no excuse for my inability to land, just why my rockets and transfer stages are bigger and less efficient they should be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 24, 2014, 07:22:42 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2014, 01:20:39 pm
So is it the rendezvous or the docking that people have trouble with? Is it the mental reorientation necessary to use the translation controls that people don't get?

I don't understand why it is so hard for some.
I can dock just fine when I can see the damn port. But when I'm on the eclipsed side of the Mun trying to get a fuel tank to stick to the side of a space station, it can be pretty difficult.

At this point, I'm considering just terminating the station entirely and then putting up one with floodlights pointing in every direction so I can actually see where I'm docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2014, 07:37:18 pm
retrofit it!  send up some double-ended docking ports with lights attached, and you've got illumination.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 25, 2014, 12:10:49 am
The order of important things:
1. gimballled liquid engines
2. struts
3. batteries
4. sas
5. solar panels
infinity. landing gear

You can build much better, more reliable landing gear out of the metal structural thingys.
Basically, this is the perfect lander design for anything in Kerbin's SOI for a there and back again mission:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Drop a decoupler and heatshield between the fuel and science bay, and it's even good to go for Deadly Reentry. Those landing structures are much stonger than landing gear, much more flexible if you come down wrong, and incredibly stable. You could land that thing on a 20 degree slope. More if you added another horizontal set to make the base even wider. It also results in a great place to attach struts to for the earlier stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TherosPherae on January 25, 2014, 02:20:03 am
Quote from: TherosPherae on January 22, 2014, 12:28:34 am
Also, I haven't acquired enough science for RTGs yet, but it seems that they're only a few missions to various astronomical bodies away, so I might hit up Moho to finish it off once I (finally) finish rescuing that poor Kerbal from the greedy surface of the Mun.
The rescue mission failed - I told him to use his little RCS pack to get to the rescue site faster because walking's fuckin' slow. And then he hit the ground....

So, guess it's time to throw a satellite or two at Moho.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 25, 2014, 05:09:14 am
Quote from: puke on January 24, 2014, 05:25:26 pm
Quote from: ank on January 24, 2014, 02:46:13 pm
You do know click is short for kilometer?

Yes!  Yes I do!  I guess I should have spelled it Klik?  How does that work? 

I was like 700Km off, but you'd be amazed the DV in those EVA packs.  I was sure the little dude was going to die, it was probably the happiest moment of my KSPing when I actually managed to reach the target.  I only had to lead it a little bit.

It means the same thing, the word you are looking for is "meters".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 25, 2014, 05:54:27 am
Quote from: ank on January 25, 2014, 05:09:14 am
Quote from: puke on January 24, 2014, 05:25:26 pm
Quote from: ank on January 24, 2014, 02:46:13 pm
You do know click is short for kilometer?

Yes!  Yes I do!  I guess I should have spelled it Klik?  How does that work? 

I was like 700Km off, but you'd be amazed the DV in those EVA packs.  I was sure the little dude was going to die, it was probably the happiest moment of my KSPing when I actually managed to reach the target.  I only had to lead it a little bit.

It means the same thing, the word you are looking for is "meters".
If he was looking for metres then he would have said a few hundred thousand, rather than just a few hundred.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 25, 2014, 08:14:56 am
Quote from: Graknorke on January 25, 2014, 05:54:27 am
Quote from: ank on January 25, 2014, 05:09:14 am
Quote from: puke on January 24, 2014, 05:25:26 pm
Quote from: ank on January 24, 2014, 02:46:13 pm
You do know click is short for kilometer?

Yes!  Yes I do!  I guess I should have spelled it Klik?  How does that work? 

I was like 700Km off, but you'd be amazed the DV in those EVA packs.  I was sure the little dude was going to die, it was probably the happiest moment of my KSPing when I actually managed to reach the target.  I only had to lead it a little bit.

It means the same thing, the word you are looking for is "meters".
If he was looking for metres then he would have said a few hundred thousand, rather than just a few hundred.

wait, he flies 700km (small k btw) with EVA packs? Dear space gods!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 25, 2014, 10:46:32 am
what's wrong with that? if you already are on a good vector you don't need a lot of dv.

I could go from kerbin to mun as well via jetpack, if I am already on a rocket passing by the mun soi.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 25, 2014, 12:57:41 pm
The Kerbal Space Program works to further advance propulsion technology. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1w4h8e/new_propulsion_technologies_in_practice/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 25, 2014, 01:28:08 pm
Needs more feet...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 25, 2014, 02:27:30 pm
specially liked how when it broke it actually moved better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 25, 2014, 02:45:19 pm
Quote from: ank on January 25, 2014, 08:14:56 am
wait, he flies 700km (small k btw) with EVA packs? Dear space gods!

Yeah, its not the distance; its that the little guy has no maneuver ball or orbital map to check his aim with.  The only thing to work with is the range counter on the distant ship in your HUD.

I guess my main point here, is that I just couldn't get the ships orbits to line up.  Coundn't make the rendezvous happen.  In the end, I was afraid to waste any more fuel for fear that I wouldn't be able to break orbit and return, so I took the closest approach and jumped.

Not sure why I couldn't do the same thing with one of the ships, it just seemed impossible to schedule a burn with the maneuver node that would get it where I needed it to be.

Maybe there is a better tutorial somewhere for orbital maneuvers and docking that I should read through.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 26, 2014, 02:36:47 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHkY3FusJIQ
Scott Manley has a pretty good tutorial on it.

Though really, I find a lot of it is getting a feel for when to switch over from orbital physics to newtonian motion in your head-calculations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 26, 2014, 01:48:59 pm
I built my first rocket that gets a probe+some fuel to orbit WITHOUT being horribly overengineered! Wooo!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on January 26, 2014, 07:32:04 pm
So I got my munar expedition vessel all up in a stable orbit, all three component parts docked nice and tidy, and I figured I'd let mechjeb handle the transfer burn while I take a piss. I come back to find that the ship exploded or something, with debris being flung far and wide, including on escape trajectories out of Kerbin's SOI. Some of them pretty damn fast, and some of the debris is actually on escape trajectories out of the SUN'S SOI

Jeb, who had been in the lander capsule, was killed some point after the explosion, I'm guessing in a collision with other debris because his orbit appeared stable enough when I checked. Bill and Bob are in the science lab that was at the lower end of the stack when the accident occured. The lower half seems to be mostly intact, but lost its mechjeb unit, meaning I have no way to control the thing. Burned off all its fuel, too. Its orbit appears stable, But if it's on a collision course with any other debris there's nothing I could do about it because a rendevous to rescue them would take more than one orbit period to accomplish, and more likely than not any such collisions will happen in the first one or two passes. There is a LOT of debris to worry about up there, now.

I will never again take a piss with mechjeb yet to initiate a burn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 26, 2014, 07:33:50 pm
MechJeb is version dependent. Some versions explode things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on January 27, 2014, 11:52:17 pm
Oh hey, article and news and stuff! (http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/1/27/5338438/kerbal-space-program)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on January 28, 2014, 01:28:28 am
That was a good article.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 29, 2014, 05:19:25 pm
Huh. For some reason I thought Squad was Eastern European of some sort.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 29, 2014, 10:34:38 pm
I'm really looking forward to the mission pack! The technical changes alone suggest that there will be some impressive new features...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 29, 2014, 10:50:58 pm
Landing on asteroids? Hoo boy!

We must celebrate. Launch all our best wine into space immediately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 29, 2014, 11:12:18 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on January 29, 2014, 10:50:58 pm
Landing on asteroids? Hoo boy!

We must celebrate. Launch all our best wine into space immediately.

You're actually trying to steer it away from Kerbin.

So landing on it plus more.

The real challenge here isn't missing Kerbin but hitting Minmus or Mun or the space center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 30, 2014, 01:23:00 am
Steer it into a stable orbit around Jool
If anything needs more moons it's Jool, Jool rocks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 30, 2014, 01:26:14 am
Use creative gravity slingshots to achieve the dream of deorbiting things with your new ridiculously heavy craft.

I guess actually managing to accurately fire it with enough velocity to deorbit something at impact counts for bonus points by itself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on January 30, 2014, 01:30:40 am
I fully expect people not only succeeding at the intended challenge, but turning the asteroid into a massive spaceship and use it to travel around the solar system as well.
I'm also waiting for Bay12 to come up with the guide for "how to land your asteroid on the KSC, both at reasonable and extreme velocity".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 30, 2014, 03:43:33 am
Quote from: Twi on January 27, 2014, 11:52:17 pm
Oh hey, article and news and stuff! (http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/1/27/5338438/kerbal-space-program)

Am I the only one who gets a sneaking feeling that KSP does not actually exist, and we are the victims of the most successful advertisement campaign to date?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 30, 2014, 03:58:47 am
 currency poll on ksp forums go and vote!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 30, 2014, 04:42:14 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on January 29, 2014, 10:50:58 pm
Landing on asteroids? Hoo boy!
Pffft, landing on Jilly was hard enough already :( Do these asteroids come with docking ports or do we get anchors or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on January 30, 2014, 05:32:26 am
Kerbills must be the name of the currency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 30, 2014, 10:49:14 am
3 Grades of currency; Kuprum, Kargentum, Kaurum, Or Kopper, Kilver, and Kold.
Kurrency, Kalents, Kubels, Kisp (Kerbal Indicator of Standard Productivity)
Oh i'm out of ideas, actually my favorite was RPM, round pieces of metal, or Krash, or boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 10:55:09 am
Why not Kerbucks?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 30, 2014, 11:18:13 am
Or the ever-obvious Kredits.

Edit: Maybe buy your black-market boosters with bitkoins?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 11:21:46 am
Jebidollars?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 11:36:53 am
RPM!
It just sounds kerbaly!

Else use FBSoRs
(Found By Side of Road)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 30, 2014, 12:06:17 pm
Kesos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 30, 2014, 12:51:46 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on January 30, 2014, 12:06:17 pm
Kesos.

So, just add a few extra zero's onto otherwise reasonable numbers?
Nah, I'm just joking. It's not that bad anymore.

Why not just Kash? I don't like to just add a k to everything, but cash is fairly universal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 30, 2014, 12:59:11 pm
RPM sounds a bit too much like... well, RPM. It's an engineering game, after all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on January 30, 2014, 01:01:23 pm
Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on January 30, 2014, 05:32:26 am
Kerbills
+1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 30, 2014, 01:01:43 pm
Pounds Kirling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on January 30, 2014, 01:04:11 pm
Also, It doesn't have to sound like real money. Kerbs, or something similar, might be pretty good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 30, 2014, 01:06:49 pm
Keuros.

EUSTOSTKA STRONK!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 30, 2014, 01:27:47 pm
imagine how beautifully mad keuros would make a select group of americans who can't stomach their currency not being #1

you have my irrelevant support
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on January 30, 2014, 01:48:01 pm
Why not Krone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 30, 2014, 03:41:53 pm
Quote from: Descan on January 30, 2014, 01:48:01 pm
Why not Krone?
Because EVE Online already does that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 30, 2014, 04:22:49 pm
I?ll be original and say skells
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 04:31:55 pm
Noone likes FBSoRs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on January 30, 2014, 04:36:39 pm
I vote for Keredits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on January 30, 2014, 05:02:42 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on January 30, 2014, 01:01:23 pm
Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on January 30, 2014, 05:32:26 am
Kerbills
+1
+2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:05:39 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 04:31:55 pm
Noone likes FBSoRs?
Its usually a good idea for currency to be pronounceable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 30, 2014, 05:13:04 pm
Fib-zors. Sounds a bit weird though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 30, 2014, 05:20:32 pm
Scrap would be appropriate, although FTL already did that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 05:22:49 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:05:39 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 04:31:55 pm
Noone likes FBSoRs?
Its usually a good idea for currency to be pronounceable.
Found By Side of Roads are perfectly pronounceable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on January 30, 2014, 05:23:23 pm
It actually doesn't even need to have the letter K in it all that much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on January 30, 2014, 05:24:12 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 05:22:49 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:05:39 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 04:31:55 pm
Noone likes FBSoRs?
Its usually a good idea for currency to be pronounceable.
Found By Side of Roads are perfectly pronounceable.

If you go with Found On Roadside you get Fors, which is pretty pronounceable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:25:25 pm
Quote from: Mephansteras on January 30, 2014, 05:24:12 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 05:22:49 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:05:39 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 04:31:55 pm
Noone likes FBSoRs?
Its usually a good idea for currency to be pronounceable.
Found By Side of Roads are perfectly pronounceable.

If you go with Found On Roadside you get Fors, which is pretty pronounceable.
I refuse to play with a currency that is part of my username.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 30, 2014, 05:26:27 pm
Its Found by Side of roads...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 30, 2014, 05:38:47 pm
I like kesos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2014, 05:40:15 pm
I think they should never name it and just give it a symbol that looks like a K with a line through it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 30, 2014, 05:56:11 pm
GCU (Generic Currency Units)
Honestly it's pretty stereotyping of you all to assume that the Kerbals would just stick a 'K' in the name of their currency.



They'd at least give it an obtusely long name.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 30, 2014, 06:52:08 pm
I like Kerbucks and Jebidollar

Also like Kroner, since that the currency of my country :)

But thinking about it, it should be Kesos, since Squad is mexican.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 30, 2014, 08:41:28 pm
Quote from: ank on January 30, 2014, 06:52:08 pm
But thinking about it, it should be Kesos, since Squad is mexican.

It's actually a double entendre: their currency is cheese.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on January 30, 2014, 10:02:33 pm
How about Quatlus?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on January 31, 2014, 02:01:20 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on January 30, 2014, 10:02:33 pm
How about Quatlus?

No k? HERESY!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 31, 2014, 02:02:10 am
K's? It's simple.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2014, 03:51:08 am
Quote from: ank on January 31, 2014, 02:01:20 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on January 30, 2014, 10:02:33 pm
How about Quatlus?

No k? HERESY!

Kwatloos
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on January 31, 2014, 04:17:37 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on January 31, 2014, 02:02:10 am
K's? It's simple.
Oh, I like this one. "How much?" "Oh, that costs 500 K's".
Simple, to the point.

Although if you go into the 1000s, something costing 5kK's is kinda weird...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sackhead on January 31, 2014, 06:37:09 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on January 30, 2014, 10:02:33 pm
How about Quatlus?
i second this
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2014, 06:59:24 am
Quote from: Siquo on January 31, 2014, 04:17:37 am
Although if you go into the 1000s, something costing 5kK's is kinda weird...
Yeah but "megaK" sounds awesome. Actually it sounds like some kind of shopping center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 31, 2014, 10:30:14 am
Spend your Megabuks wisely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on January 31, 2014, 12:37:33 pm
I managed to get a kethane-scanning satellite in a polar orbit of the Mun.  :D

A minor achievement, but a first for me.  And it's already found a couple of hefty deposits.

Now to do enough science to unlock the things I need to mine/convert it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 31, 2014, 03:59:34 pm
I suggest setting the scanner at a polar orbit, so it eventually gets the whole Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2014, 04:00:06 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on January 31, 2014, 12:37:33 pm
I managed to get a kethane-scanning satellite in a polar orbit of the Mun.  :D

Quote from: HugoLuman on January 31, 2014, 03:59:34 pm
I suggest setting the scanner at a polar orbit, so it eventually gets the whole Mun.

???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on January 31, 2014, 04:02:44 pm
Oops! Brain fart  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on January 31, 2014, 04:16:12 pm
I like kerbuck or kerbill :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 01, 2014, 10:29:31 am
My rocket is tipping over and I have no idea why.
I've made rockets that are much more overengineered and ridiculous, yet somehow this one tips over. CoM and CoT seem to be fine...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on February 01, 2014, 10:35:02 am
Add more reaction wheels and winglets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 01, 2014, 10:40:31 am
There's already a fuckton of SAS and winglets.
The weird thing is that I've had more powerful rockets that are more controllable :/
This one has 6 skippers and a mainsail in asparagus, while others had 7 mainsails.
(That said this one has a lot of boosters to bring it out of the densest part of the atmosphere)


E:

WHOOPS.
Looks like I fucked up my asparagus, fuel was draining assymetrically. Welp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 01, 2014, 10:09:11 pm
I'm finding B9 to be rather useless without a joystick. Proof I don't plane much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on February 01, 2014, 10:37:24 pm
Whatever the name of the currency is, I'm going to call it Starbucks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 02, 2014, 12:36:01 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on February 01, 2014, 10:37:24 pm
Whatever the name of the currency is, I'm going to call it Starbucks.

Well it certainly will be burnt.
/zing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 02, 2014, 08:09:14 pm
That thing is massive, and georgeous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 02, 2014, 09:39:14 pm
Yeah, I think that's the B9 parts that do that. They look really nice; those big front wings are 1 big part, with the flaps and trailing bits on them separate parts. Though I think you need to do some fiddling to get all the B9 parts to work properly with .23. The SABRE engines are broken for me, but the rest seem to more or less work.

With those wings, I actually went for a more or less IRL jetliner style profile; which turns out to fly quite well in Ferram Aerospace. Also learned that to control such craft, it is essential to disable all but 1 steering direction for most of the control surfaces. With default controls, the rotation, pitch, and yaw all fight each other for control surfaces, making it uncontrollable. I switched the ones on the wingtips to be roll, those near the body to be pitch, and the tail surface to be yaw, which makes it really easy to steer, even if you need to pitch, yaw and roll at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 02, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
SABRE's can be fixed with instructions on the official forums.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 02, 2014, 10:58:12 pm
That was the fiddling in question; I suppose I should get around to that now that I have them unlocked. :P
Oh, and apparently this design is incredible stable in the re-entry glide. It won't even let you nose up or down more than about 20 degrees on re-entry until your velocity is below 300. And when you get it down below 5km and 200 m/s, it actually will automatically correct itself to by parallel with the ground. Now I just need to figure out how to stop my rapier clusters from burning up the VTOLs when they switch to rocket engines...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on February 03, 2014, 12:35:49 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 02, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
SABRE's can be fixed with instructions on the official forums.
Fixed how? Please elucidate, or link. Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 03, 2014, 01:38:31 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on February 03, 2014, 12:35:49 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 02, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
SABRE's can be fixed with instructions on the official forums.
Fixed how? Please elucidate, or link. Thanks!

I don't remember. You can find it about as quickly as I can. It's mentioned in the last 5-10 pages.

Stumbled on this today: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66020-B9-0-23-fixes
That's not all the fixes. There should be at least one more for sabre's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on February 05, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

I have some free time lemme make it for you all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 01:55:06 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

RemoteTech2 is still off. It doesn't like KAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 05, 2014, 01:56:52 pm
It doesn't even take all that long... maybe 10 minutes.  You just download them and put em in a folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:27:20 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

I have some free time lemme make it for you all.

http://www.multiupload.nl/O20H5XKAO4 beep boop modpacks :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 05, 2014, 02:36:33 pm
Hey look, it took him less than half an hour.

Lazy bums. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
Yes, but are they tweaked to work properly together?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
Yes, but are they tweaked to work properly together?
In what way?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:50:30 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
Yes, but are they tweaked to work properly together?

deadly re-entry tweaked, tested with ksp, everything seems in order.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:56:46 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:50:30 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
Yes, but are they tweaked to work properly together?

deadly re-entry tweaked, tested with ksp, everything seems in order.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66020-B9-0-23-fixes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on February 05, 2014, 03:00:21 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:56:46 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:50:30 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 05, 2014, 02:48:05 pm
Yes, but are they tweaked to work properly together?

deadly re-entry tweaked, tested with ksp, everything seems in order.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66020-B9-0-23-fixes

Should work just fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on February 05, 2014, 03:59:31 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:27:20 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

I have some free time lemme make it for you all.

http://www.multiupload.nl/O20H5XKAO4 beep boop modpacks :D

THANKS!  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bertix on February 05, 2014, 05:18:12 pm
Quote from: ank on February 05, 2014, 03:59:31 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:27:20 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

I have some free time lemme make it for you all.

http://www.multiupload.nl/O20H5XKAO4 beep boop modpacks :D

THANKS!  :o

Recommend a clean install though, also Id like to add I do not claim to possess any part of this mod-pack, credits go to the original authors, take this as a mere linking to direct downloads of them all grouped up for convenience, cheers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on February 06, 2014, 08:52:04 am
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 05:18:12 pm
Quote from: ank on February 05, 2014, 03:59:31 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 02:27:20 pm
Quote from: bertix on February 05, 2014, 01:52:21 pm
Quote from: ank on February 04, 2014, 02:12:11 pm
Quote from: alway on February 02, 2014, 07:54:52 pm
Finally got a nearly working SSTO spaceplane with the Interstellar Quest mods.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's got quite a massive payload space (big enough for an orange tank, plus some); though it still needs a few tweaks that could get it fully orbital. 10 rapiers and 6 subsonic engines on the main wing, as well as VTOL engines on the back to improve its ability to pitch up or down as needed.

Is there a mod pack for the Interstellar quest mods?
Seems like a lot of work to get them all :(

I have some free time lemme make it for you all.

http://www.multiupload.nl/O20H5XKAO4 beep boop modpacks :D

THANKS!  :o

Recommend a clean install though, also Id like to add I do not claim to possess any part of this mod-pack, credits go to the original authors, take this as a mere linking to direct downloads of them all grouped up for convenience, cheers.

Of course, i always do a clean install when I get try out new mods... which is why i now have 10.7GB worth of KSP on my computer 8)

EDIT: seems that mod pack has a few bugs. I got three magenta squares on the screen, and the space Kraken seems to have been awoken. I might try making my own lite version of the pack, with slightly fewer mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 10:03:56 am
Hi, I'm GreatWyrmGold. I've been trying my hand at Kerbal Space Program, having managed...95 minutes of crashes of various sorts. Recently, I gave up the idea of "If I can master DF without tutorials I can master KSP without them!" and found this (http://_How_to_Get_into_Orbit) tutorial. I tried following it with the stock many-stage rocket, snd failed at Step 6. I couldn't get it to turn. Does anyone have some advice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Theodolus on February 14, 2014, 10:15:49 am
Hey GWG. Your link doesn't go anywhere so I'm not entirely certain where you're having problems (although I suspect it's this one: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_How_to_Get_into_Orbit). Also, I'm sure that others with vastly more experience will chime in soon and outweigh my bit of advice. I've made it to the moons and back and to Duna and back (without landing) but I'm certainly not an expert and efficiency. Anyway, here goes...

If you are going through the tutorial I linked above that means you are in map mode when you get to step six. In map mode you are unable to control the craft until you pop up the navball which is at the bottom in the middle. It does mention that in step 5 of the tutorial, but I'm going to assume that it got missed somehow.

If that's not the case then it's possible that your ship will turn but it's weight and whatnot make it very slow to turn. I've had ships massive enough to need a good 10-15 seconds of constant key press before they begin turning in any meaningful way. That can be offset by adding some RCS to the ship (as well as RCS fuel) and toggling RCS on wth the R key. I doubt this is the problem if you are using the ship outlined in the tutorial.

Anyway, that's the info I've got for you. If you can give a bit more specifics on where you are running in to trouble that would be helpful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 14, 2014, 10:18:43 am
Add more reaction wheels and winglets, and use engines with thrust vectoring. Also, just using Mechjebs ascent guidance function is great. It pops up a target on your navball, and now I can do basically perfect gravity turns easily and without mechjebs help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 10:29:11 am
Quote from: Theodolus on February 14, 2014, 10:15:49 am
Hey GWG. Your link doesn't go anywhere so I'm not entirely certain where you're having problems (although I suspect it's this one: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_How_to_Get_into_Orbit).
You would be correct and I would be confused at how I bungled the copy-paste.

Quote
If you are going through the tutorial I linked above that means you are in map mode when you get to step six. In map mode you are unable to control the craft until you pop up the navball which is at the bottom in the middle. It does mention that in step 5 of the tutorial, but I'm going to assume that it got missed somehow.
I couldn't get it to change even in non-map-mode.

Quote
If that's not the case then it's possible that your ship will turn but it's weight and whatnot make it very slow to turn. I've had ships massive enough to need a good 10-15 seconds of constant key press before they begin turning in any meaningful way. That can be offset by adding some RCS to the ship (as well as RCS fuel) and toggling RCS on wth the R key. I doubt this is the problem if you are using the ship outlined in the tutorial.
Anyway, that's the info I've got for you. If you can give a bit more specifics on where you are running in to trouble that would be helpful.
Alright, I'll try your suggestion when I get a chance (KSP during class is not a good idea) and get back to you on that.

Quote from: miauw62 on February 14, 2014, 10:18:43 am
Add more reaction wheels and winglets, and use engines with thrust vectoring.
Two things of note:
1. I'm using the demo. I'm not sure if I have reaction wheels.
2. Last (aka first) time I tried to design a ship, is didn't get very far before it spontaneously flipped around. This kind of thing isn't ideal for improving my confidence in my shipwrightery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 14, 2014, 10:38:05 am
The demo is a completely different game at this point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 14, 2014, 10:46:01 am
I'm pretty sure reaction wheels were added in .18, which the demo is based on.

Also, yeah, wings. I'm pretty sure the 48-7S was in, so you can make a super-simple SSTO with the smallest probe core, a T200 fuel tank and a Rockomax 48-7S to practice getting-to-orbit technique.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 11:59:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on February 14, 2014, 10:38:05 am
The demo is a completely different game at this point.
Whoo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 14, 2014, 12:18:21 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 11:59:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on February 14, 2014, 10:38:05 am
The demo is a completely different game at this point.
Whoo.

At this point I don't remember .18 at all. It's been more than a year since demo release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 12:50:22 pm
Note to self: Just because you can put parachutes on solid fuel boosters does not mean you should.
Note to self: Just because there weren't heat issues before you removed the parachutes does not mean you will be fine afterwards. Also, put a decoupler between the command pod and the final engine.
Note to self: Why the heck did the command pod detach first? Investigate this matter for the next version.
Note to self: What the heck just happened. Why are the engines not turning on now?
Note to self: Okay, I think I see what happened there. Let's try this again.
Note to self: Okay, second stage still not firing.
Note to self: Alright, this went well, except for the part where we ran out of fuel at 26,000 meters. That actually screwed things up. On the other hand, the new RCS systems in the command pod were a hit with Ground Control, much more than with Bob Kerman. In related news, we need to hire new Ground Control personnel. On the bright side, the RCS system also works in water.
Note to self: There needs to be an Undo option for people who somehow accidentally delete their entire ship. Also, a zoom-out option. Also double-check action stages. Still, this was a pretty darn successful rocket; aside from the angled-ascent stage going a bit long at a slightly steep angle and some problems when I remembered and activated my RCS systems, it went pretty well. However, in the end I merely ascended to a height of slightly over 1,700 kilometers before descending in an orbit so elliptical it crashed into the opposite side of the world. Also, time warp is useful, but it messes with parachutes. RIP, Robert.

Alright, I think I'll take a break.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 14, 2014, 12:52:08 pm
Ctrl+Z for undo, boss. Scroll your mouse wheel down to zoom out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 01:20:44 pm
Gorram it.

And laptop. No mouse wheel. If XCOM can have + and - do the same thing, why can't KSP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on February 14, 2014, 01:26:24 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 01:20:44 pm
Gorram it.

And laptop. No mouse wheel. If XCOM can have + and - do the same thing, why can't KSP?

+ and - work on a numpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on February 14, 2014, 01:37:24 pm
Laptops usually don't have numpads :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 14, 2014, 01:47:47 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on February 14, 2014, 01:37:24 pm
Laptops usually don't have numpads :(

Lies. They have fn key and blue numpad on keyboard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 01:55:46 pm
Mine has a function pad but no blue numpad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 14, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
I wonder if you can use the two-finger scroll on the trackpad...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 02:35:19 pm
Not consistently.

Second and third launches of the "successful" rocket were failures. First was human error (I think?), which caused a catastrophic crash. The second failure was when the first stage started coming loose before it was released, and collided with the rest of the craft, causing a panicked ejection. At least he survived. That time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 03:56:07 pm
I had that issue where, just before the end of the first stage's fuel, it would come loose and smash into the rest of the rocket. And also that issue where crashing into a mountainside while time-warped does not cause the parachute to activate.
And the next launch, meant to triple-check this failing, showed that time warp screws with stability indeed.

The Neo-Launcher Mk Vb comes with several struts that should fix the issue of catastrophic section failure. It comes with a new quirk that two of the engines on the first stage do not activate. In addition, the second stage's liquid-fuel rocket is dry when said stage activates. The Vb does, however, succeed at its stated mission...and gets into orbit!
Um. I'm out of fuel. How is it going to land?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 14, 2014, 04:01:58 pm
launch another rocket that will gently nudge the other rocket into an aerobraking orbit, land this rocket, then turn to the original rocket and wait.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 14, 2014, 04:02:29 pm
Need more struts, don't timewarp while landing.

If your rocket is manned, you can get out with EVA and push at apokee.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 04:20:56 pm
I added another stage to the Neo-Launcher Mk Vb, about half again the size of the whole original ship, and called it the Mun Launcher Mk I. Seven liquid-fuel engines, six solid-fuel engines, and a mess of fuel tanks.
It crashed into the rest of the ship, causing a catastrophic explosion. The pilot, Bill Kerman, was unharmed.
Twelve struts later, the Mun Launcher Mk Ib was ready to launch. It also exploded; Bill again survived, landing on top of the tower thingy next to the rocket.

Maybe I'll finish the Mun Launch Project later. Right now, I need to skedaddle.

Quickedit: I'll try the EVA thing later?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 08:44:43 pm
Six more struts have been added to the ML-Ic, and this is enough to stop it from falling apart! Unfortunately, those struts are also keeping the stages quite firmly attached! We did, however, manage to launch more or less uneventfully, even if we more or less wasted a stage, leaving us with basically no fuel for actual Munar orbit. And I accidentally hit the "next stage" button instead of the "turn on engines" button.

Back to the Ib, more or less. We add six different struts, hoping that the Id can hold up where the Ib and Ia collapsed, and reach orbit where the Ic did not. Unfortunately, we suffer critical falling-and-exploding. A quick modification adds two Launch Stability Enhancers to the design, letting us avoid this pitfall. Hey, what happened to Bill? Was that propellant explosion lethal? The NL-Vb is overhead at the time of launch...and by launch I mean "falling-apart, explosive failure". I think the LSEs smashed into the rocket or something. Ludeny Kerman was killed in the massive, fiery explosion.

The Mun Launcher Ie has no fewer than six Launch Stability Enhancers, as low and wide as can be. The launch goes of without much of a hitch, except that a fraction of a second after launch stuff started falling apart. But I've found the definite culprit! I think. And Geofemy survived, although the command pod was somehow embedded in the ground.

Okay...the ML-If is not successful. I have not solved the problem.


Another project I've thought of has been started: A single-stage craft capable of reaching orbit. It has seven boosters, seven parachutes, and nineteen fuel tanks. People calling it an "aerodynamic nightmare" may be technically correct, but have gladly volunteered to clear wreckage from the Launch Pad. Without pay. For the next week. They are proven to have a bit of a point when it promptly flips over and crashes. This has been attributed, in large part, to structural failure between one of the engines and a fuel tank, causing it to (in layman's terms) fall off. Two LSEs were added, and another launch attempted. It started well, although some spinning was reported, as well as unexpected tilting. At just past six kilometers in altitude, fuel ran out and parachutes were deployed. Apoapsis of slightly over seven kilometers was achieved. At T+2:14, the parachutes deployed and were ripped out of their holding points. Experts recommend more fuel and more parachutes. Experts have been smacked for making such obvious suggestions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 14, 2014, 08:50:04 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 08:44:43 pm
Six more struts have been added to the ML-Ic, and this is enough to stop it from falling apart! Unfortunately, those struts are also keeping the stages quite firmly attached!

This is a common problem. People don't seem to know that struts automatically break when stages they're holding together separate. You don't need to worry about that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 09:15:12 pm
Then why didn't the stages separate? It's not that the engines weren't firing--the exhaust bouncing off the original stage was enough to obscure the whole ship!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Falknor on February 14, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
Thanks for the stories GW. It brings back my many attempts that ended with destruction. !Fun Times!  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 14, 2014, 09:38:05 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 09:15:12 pm
Then why didn't the stages separate? It's not that the engines weren't firing--the exhaust bouncing off the original stage was enough to obscure the whole ship!
Probally staging issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 14, 2014, 10:18:16 pm
Good: Made it to the Mun! Bad: Hit the surface at 1900km/h. Result: Try again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 10:22:11 pm
Relaunching a Mun Launcher Ic confirmed the problem. It also revealed that the thing had two engines run out of fuel somewhat slower than the others. This being said, I nearly reached orbit, impeded largely by my accidentally releasing the command pod instead of killing the burn at 70 kilometers. I very nearly got into orbit despite this, however.

I'm reworking the Muncraft from scratch. While I'm doing so, I discover that the Symmetry button has many settings. In any case, the Mun Tower is three massive sections; let's see how it does.
It explodes on contact with reality. RIP, Geoffrey Kerman. Let's add some rocket-holder thingies.
The rocket manages to not explode upon implementation of physics! It now explodes when links between engines and fuel tanks in the second stage break, everything bangs into everything, and explosions! No deaths. Gerbles is so happy. Upon further examination, it sucked, so let's try this again...

The Mun Tower Mk II in an impressive spire, three stages of grace, power, and not being able to serve as a real tower. It gets some LSEs and launches...promptly getting a slight spin and shaking its first stage apart. Time to add some struts. This model, the Mk III, has a disturbing tendency to lean, all the more disturbing because I forgot to add control surfaces or anything. This test did, however, reveal that the second stage shares with the first a tendency to shake itself apart. The Mk IV should fix both of these issues.

The Mun Tower Mk IV has three new struts and 21 winglets! (I may have went overboard...) However, the SAS does not seem to be using them, and attempts at manual control merely worsen the issue, which is followed by a panicked stage-cycling to try and eject, ending with a swarm of chunks of rocket and Gerbles Kerman's death by fuel tank collision/explosion. An Advanced SAS Module is added, and Joemy Kerman is glad to take the wheel of this new ship! The launch begins well, with the SAS making the takeoff as straight as an arrow. After the ejection of the first stage, however, vibrations begin shaking the ship. And then the game crashed.
...Which I will take as a sign to take a break from KSP.


Fan Mail

Quote from: Falknor on February 14, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
Thanks for the stories GW. It brings back my many attempts that ended with destruction. !Fun Times!  8)
You are welcome!

Quote from: Aseaheru on February 14, 2014, 09:38:05 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 14, 2014, 09:15:12 pm
Then why didn't the stages separate? It's not that the engines weren't firing--the exhaust bouncing off the original stage was enough to obscure the whole ship!
Probally staging issues.
Hm. I'm not sure how, but maybe?

Quote from: MaximumZero on February 14, 2014, 10:18:16 pm
Good: Made it to the Mun! Bad: Hit the surface at 1900km/h. Result: Try again.
Lucky. I can't even get my Mun-rockets into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 12:01:56 am
The MT-IVc has eleven new struts on the final stage, which should help counteract the shaking. It more or less works as intended, although shifting to the angled ascent is difficult as the handling is absolutely horrible. And the game crashed again. What the--

Huh. It saved right before the launch. Anyways, the re-launch is much the same, with catastrophic loss of control leading to us rocketing down for a bit. We go from a bit over 10 km to a bit over 5 km before we start ascending again. And the game crashed again. Maybe I should stop alt-tabbing while escaped.

The next test works. We manage to nudge it into an angle with little difficulty. We get a 70-km apoapsis as soon as the penultimate stage drops. More problems come up. The level-flight is screwed up, we don't really get the burn started until after apoapsis. We fall for a bit before getting under control, and a new apoapsis. We end up with a highly elliptical orbit, apoapsis just over 6,600 km and periapsis just under 22.4 km. We orbit out a few (in-game) hours.
And then I discover that I cannot re-activate the burn to circularize the orbit. I try to disengage the stage to activate the last form of thrust I might have, and discover that I can't do that either. And yes, this was zoomed-in, not the orbital map. I abandoned the potentially excellent orbit to return homeward.

Then I decide to try turning off SAS and discover that that's the problem. Such a shame. (By which I mean: GODDAMMIT WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT EARLIER?!?)

The orbit decays. I land. Seven hours, nineteen minutes. Good flight, Herming. Good flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 15, 2014, 12:06:02 am
SAS shouldn't cause any problems with burning...

Though maneuvering yes you had to turn it off in 0.18
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 12:22:57 am
Weirdly, it wasn't letting me burn. Or there was something else stopping me from burning at the apoapsis and not at the periapsis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 15, 2014, 01:28:56 am
Shot for the Mun. Decided I didn't have enough oomph to get there. So, I pointed my Mun Flyer sunward, and fired up the engines, to see how high I could take her. Was goofing off, clicking on stuff, when I decided to set Minmus as a target, and saw that I had a rendezvous set up. Huh, I thought. I might actually have enough fuel to make it there. So, I line up a 50km orbit (I've just recently discovered maneuver nodes,) and sit back and relax. I put her into a parking orbit, swung around Minmus once, and decided to try to set down. From there, I set a path that would land me on a flat looking highland, and pointed retro. Checked the map again to make sure all was well, and then tried to burn. Nothing. I still had plenty of fuel, enough that I should have made it back to Kerbin, in fact. Controls were completely locked out.

I crashed into Minmus because either a) the batteries died (which they had,) or b) I didn't set time warp all the way back to 1x. Not sure which. I was So. Very. Close. ;_; I could almost taste the science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: azurelao on February 15, 2014, 02:38:28 am
What's a good setup for getting a large orange fuel tank up in orbit with enough fuel left for rendezvous with the core of a station?

Somehow got /this/ up there: http://filesmelt.com/dl/spessstation.png

But when I tried it with an OFT I ran out of gas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 15, 2014, 04:19:30 am
Playing with my Interstellar Quest mods still. I'm now quite far along in the tech tree; unlocked a lot of the structural parts and all the 3.5 meter stuff.
I then made an awesome resupply craft which is closer to a yacht in appearance.
Spoiler: The Lacunarity Resupply Vessel Prototype (click to show/hide)
http://imgur.com/a/N9fMu
As you can see, it's entirely over the top. It can hold 7 crew, around 8 years of life support supplies, a bunch of uranium and thorium, 2000 monoprop, and it usually makes it up to my 300km station with around an orange tank worth of fuel left. The only problem so far is its propensity to flip around during reentry due to FAR, which makes things rather dicey, since I'm also using Deadly Reentry; but that's just a matter of fleshing out the rear a bit more. It's got the outdoor party-deck up top, for all your space-partying needs. It docks backwards using a 2.5m port, and is about as large as the entirety of my current space station. And due to the massive number of RCS thrusters on the corners, it steers amazingly well in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on February 15, 2014, 06:46:03 am
Quote from: azurelao on February 15, 2014, 02:38:28 am
What's a good setup for getting a large orange fuel tank up in orbit with enough fuel left for rendezvous with the core of a station?

Somehow got /this/ up there: http://filesmelt.com/dl/spessstation.png

But when I tried it with an OFT I ran out of gas.

Asparagus!
Last time I did a refuelling mission I was disappointed that I only got 7 orange tanks into space...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on February 15, 2014, 07:25:18 am
I have made a lot of progress since I last played this..
I managed to get a probe into Duna orbit! Which was the first interplanetary thing I've ever managed.
Now I'm trying to get a much heavier manned rover there and I'm having difficulties.
THESE KINKS WILL BE WORKED OUT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 09:06:59 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on February 15, 2014, 01:28:56 am
Checked the map again to make sure all was well, and then tried to burn. Nothing. I still had plenty of fuel, enough that I should have made it back to Kerbin, in fact. Controls were completely locked out.
Huh. Was SAS on?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 09:26:05 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 09:06:59 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on February 15, 2014, 01:28:56 am
Checked the map again to make sure all was well, and then tried to burn. Nothing. I still had plenty of fuel, enough that I should have made it back to Kerbin, in fact. Controls were completely locked out.
Huh. Was SAS on?
SAS behaves differently in the full game, it was changed in .20 IIRC.

Either way, MZ either had no power to control the ship, or he was in timewarp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 10:43:12 am
The OrbiTower Mk I, a new paradigm in rocket design, is having a certain amount of trouble with the whole "not falling apart and exploding on contact with physics" thing. It takes a couple tries, but we get Launch Stability Enhancers in positions where they won't allow the Tower to collapse under its own weight. Then the solid fuel boosters break the decouplers and smash into the rest of the ship. A few struts fix that. Unfortunately, the design evidently is too heavy for the relatively few liquid-fuel rockets in the second and third stages to handle, so it is overall considered a failure, even though the solid fuel boosters (narrowly) avoided overheating. The OrbiTower project is scrapped.

I work on an orbital (?) launcher with three stages of solid fuel and one of liquid. Two problems come up: A lack of structural soundness in the bottom stage (note to self: Inter-connect solid fuel stacks) and overheating. Oh, and it has zero control surfaces, only RCS. And in case that isn't enough, it has a terminal case of spinning. And we run out of fuel pretty fast. It's not exactly an ideal proof-of-concept.
You know what they say: If at first you don't succeed, and your original design had horrible flaws, go back to the drawing board because you have unlimited funds anyways. Aand this one fails worse: The first two stages (composed ~100% of solid fuel) fall apart, the third stage starts blasting downward (nearly keeping the cockpit trapped underneath), and the control surfaces didn't do much of anything.
Struts were added...let's see...three here, three there, fifteen overall I think. It worked well for a while...but apparently the decouplers were getting a lot of damage from the exhaust, so the first stage smashed into the rest of the craft. Bill Kerman was killed, his command pod struck by one of the fuel boosters.
Half a dozen new struts were added, connecting the first two stages in a move that I hope I don't regret when the first stage runs our of fuel. I don't! Instead I regret not doing the same with the second stage. Bob Kerman died in the explosion.
Three more struts. And now it explodes right after takeoff. RIP Ludeny Kerman. Too much stress on the one liquid fuel engine, it seems.
Those three struts were supplemented with six new ones. Things go well. Well, until we hit an apoapsis at 13,000 meters and things start going crazy. "SAS isn't keeping us stable and manual control is worse" crazy. Splashdown is achieved.

Time to try something I know can work: The old NL-Vb. Catastrophic failure on the second stage when the solid fuel boosters kinda fall apart, sending us into a wild spin that the SAS makes worse. I, uh...I don't remember that happening. But hey, not counting dignity there were no casualties!
Relaunching, no such difficulties. Geofemy is put into an elliptical orbit, apoapsis a bit over 400 kilometers and periapsis a bit under 100. He even still has fuel!

I'll call that a success and take a break.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 10:49:18 am
So, GWG, did you buy the full version already?

If you get to the point where you can't properly launch your rockets becaues they're exploding, it's time to stop trying. Massively overengineered things are a MASSIVE PITA to get into orbit, you're better off launching them in seperate parts and then docking them in orbit.

Making rockets that can take a payload to orbit ithout massively overengineering things is also more satisfying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 10:55:28 am
Quote from: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 10:49:18 am
So, GWG, did you buy the full version already?
No. Partly, I'm waiting to invest until I can reliably get things into orbit; partly, I'm not eager to leave the save with my first successes on it.
Might not hurt to buy, though, to get more options...

Quote
If you get to the point where you can't properly launch your rockets becaues they're exploding, it's time to stop trying. Massively overengineered things are a MASSIVE PITA to get into orbit, you're better off launching them in seperate parts and then docking them in orbit.
Most of the "seperate parts" are stages intended to help get it into orbit. But yeah, I think you might have a point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on February 15, 2014, 11:09:57 am
There are two very important things to getting stuff into orbit reliable:
1. Thrust to Weight Ratio. (If you don't have engines burning at full power or near full power the entire way up to orbit, you have too many engines)
2. Gravity turns, gravity turns, gravity turns.

Also, in the demo, I don't believe you have access to Mainsails, which make it a million times easier to get stuff to orbit. So the full game would probably turn you into a rocketeering god if you can get stuff to orbit in the demo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 11:21:47 am
Cool.

Although sadly, downloading the full KSP overwrote the demo, so the two kerbals I got into orbit were deleted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on February 15, 2014, 11:23:58 am
Quote from: ank on February 15, 2014, 06:46:03 am
Quote from: azurelao on February 15, 2014, 02:38:28 am
What's a good setup for getting a large orange fuel tank up in orbit with enough fuel left for rendezvous with the core of a station?

Somehow got /this/ up there: http://filesmelt.com/dl/spessstation.png

But when I tried it with an OFT I ran out of gas.

Asparagus!
Last time I did a refuelling mission I was disappointed that I only got 7 orange tanks into space...
The answer to everything, it seems. Except more boosters and spacetape.

It's also a good idea to attach separate, steerable rockets to the side to steer the payload. That way, you won't use a drop of the fuel in the orange tank. The end result is also prettier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 15, 2014, 11:35:44 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 11:21:47 am
Cool.

Although sadly, downloading the full KSP overwrote the demo, so the two kerbals I got into orbit were deleted.
That just means you get to do it again. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 11:40:56 am
As I said, SAS works differently in the full version.
SAS is built into most probes and stuff,  but that's just the control. ASAS doesn't exist anymore and you generally want to put as many reaction wheels everywhere as possible, because they give you more control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 11:43:05 am
I decided to make a jet.

The engines didn't turn on. They said something about flaming out.

I might want to look for a tutorial.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 15, 2014, 11:44:11 am
They need..... oh right. Demo. No f*ing clue!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 11:45:50 am
He just installed the new version.
Jet engines need intakes to provide air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 12:32:25 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 11:45:50 am
Jet engines need intakes to provide air.
Guessed when I saw that intakes existed.

Anyways, I got a craft into orbit on the first try. A bit elliptical (A 448 km, P 71 km), but hey. First design, first launch, orbit. I'm guessing the Mainsail helped a lot.

The GoldJet had two air intakes added and...huh. Maybe if I added a third for the third engine?
There we go. Things were going fine until one of the wings smashed into the ground before it could get an inch off the ground. Then the rest of the plane hit the ground and exploded, probably because I filled the whole inside with jet fuel.
I think this counts as a failure of the highest degree. RIP, Jebediah Kerman. Oh look, a Revert button!
While trying to redesign the GoldJet, I discovered a way to zoom! Celebrations!
The redesign was slightly better, in that I remembered to eject the pilot before everything exploded.

I fiddle with the Orbital Rocket Mk I to add another stage and some solid-fuel boosters. What is not added, however, is a common-sense staging thing. I straighten it out and prepare to launch. Will I reach the Mun today? Bob Kerman, first-time pilot, is interested to know. And terrified.
The answer is no. I think one of the solid fuel boosters came off, but I'm not sure; I lost track of what was going on in my frenzy to eject and whatnot. So...not a terrible failure, but a failure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 15, 2014, 12:33:33 pm
Also, if you want to go high-altitude, puts LOTS of intakes. You can fit a lot of them even without clipping them into each other, and with clipping you can fit dozens on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 15, 2014, 12:41:08 pm
I don't bother with the runway for launching jets anymore.

I just use the pylons to lift them from the surface, tilt them at an angle and depart that way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 01:49:27 pm
Also, GWG, nosecones just slow your rocket down unless you install aerodynamic mods (FAR is the only one i know of)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2014, 02:06:15 pm
I've been mucking around with ion drives and I've found out there's really no point in using them for anything. They're too weak to make interplanetary transfers and there's no real need to do stationkeeping (and the RCS is far more suited to the task). Am I just doing something wrong or is this just how ion engines are?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 15, 2014, 02:09:02 pm
Just how they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 15, 2014, 02:52:26 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on February 15, 2014, 02:06:15 pm
I've been mucking around with ion drives and I've found out there's really no point in using them for anything. They're too weak to make interplanetary transfers and there's no real need to do stationkeeping (and the RCS is far more suited to the task). Am I just doing something wrong or is this just how ion engines are?
Ion engines are plenty useful for interplanetary transfers, you just can't do it in a single burn like you may be used to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 15, 2014, 03:05:53 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 11:45:50 am
He just installed the new version.
Jet engines need intakes to provide air.

Ah, sorry. Also question answered.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 15, 2014, 02:52:26 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on February 15, 2014, 02:06:15 pm
I've been mucking around with ion drives and I've found out there's really no point in using them for anything. They're too weak to make interplanetary transfers and there's no real need to do stationkeeping (and the RCS is far more suited to the task). Am I just doing something wrong or is this just how ion engines are?
Ion engines are plenty useful for interplanetary transfers, you just can't do it in a single burn like you may be used to.

Yeah, ions are weak but dV high. You also need to build kinda small to make best use of them. Throwing a bunch of Ion on a ship will require enormous solar panels, which defeats the purpose. You're not likely to even cut burn time in half. You should be setting up burns of 15 minutes, stopping and going around the block, another 15, another rotation, and so on for an hour or more. You'll still have dV to spare if you're looking at another SOI other than the sun. Don't expect to get in Moho orbit with such a craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on February 15, 2014, 03:30:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 15, 2014, 03:05:53 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 15, 2014, 11:45:50 am
He just installed the new version.
Jet engines need intakes to provide air.

Ah, sorry. Also question answered.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 15, 2014, 02:52:26 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on February 15, 2014, 02:06:15 pm
I've been mucking around with ion drives and I've found out there's really no point in using them for anything. They're too weak to make interplanetary transfers and there's no real need to do stationkeeping (and the RCS is far more suited to the task). Am I just doing something wrong or is this just how ion engines are?
Ion engines are plenty useful for interplanetary transfers, you just can't do it in a single burn like you may be used to.

Yeah, ions are weak but dV high. You also need to build kinda small to make best use of them. Throwing a bunch of Ion on a ship will require enormous solar panels, which defeats the purpose. You're not likely to even cut burn time in half. You should be setting up burns of 15 minutes, stopping and going around the block, another 15, another rotation, and so on for an hour or more. You'll still have dV to spare if you're looking at another SOI other than the sun. Don't expect to get in Moho orbit with such a craft.
Or you build a TINY craft with them. As in really tiny. My first Duna return came home in one 13 minute burn on ion engines. I lost the file, but it was a fantastic little craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 15, 2014, 03:34:36 pm
I currently have a quicksave above the Mun. When I get back from work, I'll probably attempt to land and gather ‼SCIENCE‼
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on February 15, 2014, 03:35:20 pm
I use Ion engines for my refueling craft it, or to power construction rovers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 03:45:04 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on February 15, 2014, 02:09:02 pm
Just how they are.
It's how they would be IRL, too. They require a lot of power, and don't produce too much thrust in space.


A new jet was developed, nicknamed the "Jet Coffin" as it does not have any kind of ejection system like the GoldJet did. It does, however, include convenient dual parachutes and a reaction wheel! It is recommended that you activate the thrust before attempting to fly the Jet Coffin. It did briefly achieve liftoff, but only affter attempts to turn lead to one wing striking the ground at speed and somehow exploding. Followed by the rest of the plane exploding.
Following the unexplained recovery of Pilot J. Kerman, a new Jet Coffin was designed, this one with an ejection function. Also more wings, winglets, and parachutes. The first attempted launch lead to some minor wing explosions in an attempt to straighten out the path down the runway; corrections to avoid falling over lead to the destruction of the other wings and, after the remainder of the plane barreled off the runway into a crowd of observers, falling over in the opposite direction. Jebediah Kerman was killed, but he got better.
Jebediah Kerman flew the Jet Coffin quite successfully. There were worries, as the plane had reached the end of the runway without lifting its landing gear off the tarmac, but these fears proved unfounded as the J.C. number 2 was soon soaring majestically over the ocean. Turning was a bit of an issue with SAS on, and stability an issue with SAS off. Jebediah accidentally pressed the Eject button after achieving an altitude in excess of a kilometer. The parachutes performed admirably and the front part of the plane retrieved not far from shore.

Bill Kerman, pilot of the orbiting spacecraft, is considering EVA but decides to wait until sunrise.

The RC FlyCar is an unmanned vehicle that was looked at with derision and laughter. The laughter increased when a flame-out occurred. The head engineer strapped two new air intakes on, which also failed. The puny radial air intake valved from Vac-Co were replaced with large, bulky fuel tanks and air intakes, complete with engines. Also present was a new bulky device incorporating decouplers and solid fuel tanks which, when asked the purpose of, the head engineer cackled and said "You'll see...you'll see..." Initial testing suggested that their purpose was either to explode, knocking the drone backwards, or to unbalance the drone, making it too heavy to fly. The question of why these were important functions was not answered.
Any connection between this event and the appearance of a large jet thing with similar devices attempting to take off from our runway and exploding is under investigation.

I tried to launch a stock satellite into orbit, but encountered issues when trying to circularize the orbit. For some reason, none of the controls worked. Again. Then I noticed I was in time warp and facepalmed. I ended up with a nice orbit, not too elliptical. A bit over a million meters one way, a bit under two million the other. Inspired, I expand and circularize the orbit of my orbiting thing. Sadly, it no longer has any fuel. The first orbiting chunk of debris has been created.

You know what the problem with this game is? There aren't any good starting stopping points. You just keep playing and playing and suddenly hours are gone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on February 15, 2014, 08:38:22 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 03:45:04 pm
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on February 15, 2014, 02:09:02 pm
Just how they are.
It's how they would be IRL, too. They require a lot of power, and don't produce too much thrust in space.


A new jet was developed, nicknamed the "Jet Coffin" as it does not have any kind of ejection system like the GoldJet did. It does, however, include convenient dual parachutes and a reaction wheel! It is recommended that you activate the thrust before attempting to fly the Jet Coffin. It did briefly achieve liftoff, but only affter attempts to turn lead to one wing striking the ground at speed and somehow exploding. Followed by the rest of the plane exploding.
Following the unexplained recovery of Pilot J. Kerman, a new Jet Coffin was designed, this one with an ejection function. Also more wings, winglets, and parachutes. The first attempted launch lead to some minor wing explosions in an attempt to straighten out the path down the runway; corrections to avoid falling over lead to the destruction of the other wings and, after the remainder of the plane barreled off the runway into a crowd of observers, falling over in the opposite direction. Jebediah Kerman was killed, but he got better.
Jebediah Kerman flew the Jet Coffin quite successfully. There were worries, as the plane had reached the end of the runway without lifting its landing gear off the tarmac, but these fears proved unfounded as the J.C. number 2 was soon soaring majestically over the ocean. Turning was a bit of an issue with SAS on, and stability an issue with SAS off. Jebediah accidentally pressed the Eject button after achieving an altitude in excess of a kilometer. The parachutes performed admirably and the front part of the plane retrieved not far from shore.

Bill Kerman, pilot of the orbiting spacecraft, is considering EVA but decides to wait until sunrise.

The RC FlyCar is an unmanned vehicle that was looked at with derision and laughter. The laughter increased when a flame-out occurred. The head engineer strapped two new air intakes on, which also failed. The puny radial air intake valved from Vac-Co were replaced with large, bulky fuel tanks and air intakes, complete with engines. Also present was a new bulky device incorporating decouplers and solid fuel tanks which, when asked the purpose of, the head engineer cackled and said "You'll see...you'll see..." Initial testing suggested that their purpose was either to explode, knocking the drone backwards, or to unbalance the drone, making it too heavy to fly. The question of why these were important functions was not answered.
Any connection between this event and the appearance of a large jet thing with similar devices attempting to take off from our runway and exploding is under investigation.

I tried to launch a stock satellite into orbit, but encountered issues when trying to circularize the orbit. For some reason, none of the controls worked. Again. Then I noticed I was in time warp and facepalmed. I ended up with a nice orbit, not too elliptical. A bit over a million meters one way, a bit under two million the other. Inspired, I expand and circularize the orbit of my orbiting thing. Sadly, it no longer has any fuel. The first orbiting chunk of debris has been created.

You know what the problem with this game is? There aren't any good starting stopping points. You just keep playing and playing and suddenly hours are gone.
For a second i tought you were talking about a new engine being devlopped real life or something... then i saw kerman...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 09:58:53 pm
I tried the To The Mun Part 1 scenario. I kinda messed up at the "change your orbit" part.

Inspired largely by a series of videos on YouTube by one Macey Dean, I designed a little space station called the Hilt of St. Kerman's Sword, intended to fire large explosive rounds as an anti-capital-ship measure. I fired the prototype into space, where it came close to the old Orbital Launcher I with Bill Kerman onboard. We were a couple hundred meters apart at our closest; Bill threw space-rocks at us. We spent the last of our fuel at apoapsis to circularize our orbit, but wound up instead with a crazy orbit about 45 degrees off the approximate plane of everything else orbiting Kerbin, with a periapsis of slightly under 538 kilometers and an apoapsis of over 7,882 kilometers! Between this and the fact that detaching the final stage ripped off the RCS tank and docking ports, I'd say that particular Hilt will not be detting a blade. I replace the Hydraulic Detachment Manifolds with smaller Radial Decouplers and hope for the best.
Meanwhile, I design a Blade for this sword. It's an impressive projectile, a good fraction of the size of many ships. It is a massive fuselage, filled with jet fuel, with a few reaction wheels and a pair of solid fuel boosters added for good measure. It is tipped with a probe brain, for reorientation during launch, although hopefully it won't be needed too much since I doubt it has much maneuverability. And no, it does not have any kind of cockpit or crew compartment (unlike the Hilt). I design a launcher for it, too, with 14 solid fuel launchers and a bunch of big orange fuel tanks powering two Mainsails. You know what it doesn't have? Stability. (Sadly, the launcher seems to be more explosive than the Sword...this is a matter I'll need to look into.) Adding two pairs of Launch Stability Enhancers doesn't help, so I toss in some structure enhancers, like girders and struts and stuff. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this caused the launcher to explode after launching, rather than before.
...Wow. This is even harder than I expected.

P.S. My zooming is either limited to the Hangar or was a fluke. :(


Quote from: jocan2003 on February 15, 2014, 08:38:22 pm
For a second i tought you were talking about a new engine being devlopped real life or something... then i saw kerman...
What, the exploding wings didn't clue you in? Or the note about turning on thrust before flying?
Anyways, I think next time I fire up KSP I'll work on atmospheric craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 15, 2014, 10:13:11 pm
Ah... Zooming needs a pilot...

As for hitting your target, your best bet is to set it as target and aim and the purple marker.

From 200m.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 10:52:32 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on February 15, 2014, 10:13:11 pm
Ah... Zooming needs a pilot...
Even in the ship-building thing?

Quote
As for hitting your target, your best bet is to set it as target and aim and the purple marker.

From 200m.
I hadn't noticed I could do that at the time. I actually discovered it when trying to figure out how much distance was between the Orbital Hermitage and the Hilt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 11:43:21 pm
Alright. I tried taking Aseaheru's advice. My orbit is getting very elliptical and losing its periapsis.. In other news, an EVA where I misjudged the end of the ladder probably sentenced poor Jebediah Kerman to death by falling. Say, isn't there supposed to be some kind of propelly thing?

Judging by the fact that I'm out of fuel and going to crash into Kermin in a bit under an hour, I think I did something wrong.
But hey, I learned that if I'm in a catastrophic bind, I can send one kerbal out to EVA and die before everyone else can get killed and then get the mission to end.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 15, 2014, 11:47:05 pm
r for jetpack?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 15, 2014, 11:54:46 pm
Oh.

Good to know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 16, 2014, 04:42:59 am
If your periapsis is below 70km, you're still in the atmosphere and your orbit isn't stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:59:23 am
I am aware. Pointing my nose at the purple mark and burning didn't just give me a periapsis below 70km, it gave me a periapsis below 0 km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 11:35:31 am
Inspired by Macey's Dragonfly, I decide to see if I can make a jet/ion hybrid. I run into some problems, such as placing the ion engines and flame-outs. Eventually I scrap the design and start anew. And then my laptop reports charge problems crap get back to you later.
EDIT: Nothing major, though it does screw with my plans some.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 12:34:16 pm
alt F12 and turn no clipping on. It's the last toggle in the list.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 02:31:19 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 12:34:16 pm
alt F12 and turn no clipping on. It's the last toggle in the list.
Isn't that kinda cheaty?
Also, what problem does that solve?


Back to jets. I design a "snub jet" that has the same exploding (a couple control surfaces hit the hangar) and not-turning issues as older jets. Two perpendicular reaction wheels should solve the latter issue, and not crashing will need to solve the first. Of course, they also make it even less likely that we'll be able to lift off without driving off the end of the runway, but eh.
It should probably go wothout saying that my attempts to lift off by leaning backwards lead to lots of shrapnel in the crowd (why do they keep coming to the KASA base? We aren't inviting them). Trying to launch without touching the controls works, until I confuse the "up" and "down" controls. Most of the shrapnel lands in the ocean this time. Fish fry tomorrow. Be sure to pick out the metal bits, those are just garnishes.
Trying to launch again, but using the real up button works well until I go upside-down and crash. Jebediah survived this one, much to his surprise and mild irritation. The flight after, we took off well, and things were going swimmingly until I realized we were going sideways. Note to self: Maneuverability sucks.
The flight after that, Jebediah crashes straight into the ground. Same with the next one. His qualifications are brought into question briefly until someone brings up that we have a copy of his birth certificate on file. More crashes. A test of the eject button is attempted; as far as can be told, the fuselage ripped free from the everything from the decoupling force before smashing into the cockpit. A monodirectional decoupler was ordered and nearly installed backwards; a Post-It note warning not to press the button while the engine was engaged was put on the eject button. The intern who did so was given an icepack to deal with the sudden fall and commendations for his creativity. Also, one of the reaction wheels was removed on account of being unsightly and not helping much.
The new design showed a remarkable inability to rise as the previous one had. While the head engineer declared that this had nothing to do with the removed reaction wheel, he allowed one to be installed anyways. After much consideration, one was placed in each wing.
Jebediah reported that the new design allowed him to maneuver the craft much more effectively but made loop-de-loops more difficult and less enjoyable. He also tested the emergency eject, determining that the cockpit and wings could be recovered by such activity. He also determined that it was a lot harder to get back into the cockpit after leaving.

I try the To the Mun! training again, still having no idea what it wants me to do. I attempt a clunky set of maneuvers which leave me with no fuel and no idea what to do. I decide to just fast-forward and see if I can intersect the Mun's orbit. Somehow, this works. I try to burn retrograde to get captured, but I think I wound up burning prograde or something because I ended up on an escape trajectory with Kerbin, which is something I just had to abandon my Mun mission to investigate. I ended up in an orbit similar to Kerbin's but separate. Also, Jebediah became the first Kerbin to be stranded in interplanetary space, followed quickly by Bob trying to rescue Jebediah after a flyby failed and then Bill trying to rescue Bob. I hit Reset and retry...yup, I had my Prograde and Retrograde mixed up. I pause because holy carp I need to get going.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 02:48:20 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 02:31:19 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 12:34:16 pm
alt F12 and turn no clipping on. It's the last toggle in the list.
Isn't that kinda cheaty?
Also, what problem does that solve?

It lets you make attachment points you might not normally have when using the tiny strut, which you can rotate inside anything. I don't consider it cheating at all because any engineer should be able to mount stuff on the sides of fuel tanks with frigging glue at the very least. You can also mount more and smaller engines to the bottoms of fuel tanks (like the Russian N1) without using limited adapters. If you want "cheating" that would be the SAS. It's a magical turning device.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 16, 2014, 02:55:02 pm
It's a reaction wheel :v

The torque is ridiculously high, though.

Also, as has recently been mentioned, don't bother with ion engines on any craft larger than a teeny tiny probe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:13:43 pm
The problem with the ion engine attachment was that there wasn't anywhere the game would let me put it, unlike most things which you can just stick on the sides.

And Macey disagrees with your interpretation of ion engines, miauw. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr8KOst68cQ&list=UUVNZXXTp6dt81aXAoU5Uj3g)

Anyways, Munshot. I got into orbit before my last post but the tutorial isn't recognizing it. Any idea why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:16:20 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:13:43 pm
The problem with the ion engine attachment was that there wasn't anywhere the game would let me put it, unlike most things which you can just stick on the sides.

Struts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:22:39 pm
Struts and those tanks you can shove on sides.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:25:27 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:16:20 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:13:43 pm
The problem with the ion engine attachment was that there wasn't anywhere the game would let me put it, unlike most things which you can just stick on the sides.
Struts.
...They can be connected to parts not already connected to the ship?

Quote from: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:22:39 pm
those tanks you can shove on sides.
I could, but it feels a bit cludgy. Especially without anythirng to do with those tanks.

Anyone have any idea why To The Mun! Part 1 won't advance past the part where it tells me to be captured into an orbit when I already am?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:28:02 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:25:27 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:16:20 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:13:43 pm
The problem with the ion engine attachment was that there wasn't anywhere the game would let me put it, unlike most things which you can just stick on the sides.
Struts.
...They can be connected to parts not already connected to the ship?

Not that strut (space tape), the other strut (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Cubic_Octagonal_Strut).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:43:07 pm
Oh.

And incidentally...
Spoiler: I screenshotted my problem! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:45:23 pm
I think the built in tutorials have been untouched since .... before .21? Something like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
magical girls are interfering with your space science, obviously

what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:49:17 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:25:27 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:22:39 pm
those tanks you can shove on sides.
You just using ions?

As fr the ninjaed thing, perhaps lower both your apoptosis and periphrasis?
Or just reset...

More ninjas!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.

Quote from: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 03:45:23 pm
I think the built in tutorials have been untouched since .... before .21? Something like that.
...And?

Quote from: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:49:17 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 03:25:27 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 03:22:39 pm
those tanks you can shove on sides.
You just using ions?
I haven't successfully flown a craft with ion engines ever.

Reset attempted. Mun orbited again. No change. Burn continued. No change. Attempted to crash into the surface of the Mun. Noticed that the thing progressed. Whee! I don't think I've ever intentionally landed a craft before. This should be fun.
Getting the orbit low is easy. Circularizing isn't something I've ever practiced...and I get it! Whoo! The first thing is over. I slowly reduce my orbit height and...suddenly things explode! I thought my periapsis was still above 2,000 meters!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 16, 2014, 04:38:33 pm
The smallest RCS tanks (.5m) can be radially mounted.

and Ions are fucking SLOW now...

ANd s it just me or did somone ramp up there xenon consumption?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on February 16, 2014, 04:49:56 pm
The "And...?" is that the markers that tell the tutorial that "Oh hey the craft is now in orbit" have changed, without the tutorial realizing it. So it's looking for a marker that either doesn't exist or doesn't change when a craft goes into a circular orbit any more.

IIRC the makers modified how the game determines where a craft is relative to orbital and orbiting bodies in order to save on calculations needed and thereby make the game run faster (I remember something about sometimes it'll be the SUN changing position and not your space ship, or the planet you're escaping from/entering-into-SoI/orbitting will be the one changing position relative to your ship)

This change might be what is interfering. But it could be any number of changes, .20 and .21 were fairly major both in front-end (Career mode and modifying parts) and in the back-end (aforementioned calculation modification)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 16, 2014, 05:29:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.

Specific.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 05:49:57 pm
Quote from: Descan on February 16, 2014, 04:49:56 pm
The "And...?" is that the markers that tell the tutorial that "Oh hey the craft is now in orbit" have changed, without the tutorial realizing it. So it's looking for a marker that either doesn't exist or doesn't change when a craft goes into a circular orbit any more.
Oh.
That's not convenient.

Quote from: Putnam on February 16, 2014, 05:29:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.
Specific.
When I have a specific query I'll ask it.
Although the whole "get into orbit and end up roughly where the Mun is" thing is a bit arcane to me. And it seems important.


Anyways. No TTMp2, so back to jets. I make a nice, big one I call the Microraptor because it has four wings. It comes with an eject button and was intended as a VTOL craft. Jebediah, our pilot, noted that the plane fell in a sad medium between "able to take off" and "awesome explosions". He reported that the cockpit was fun to roll around in, though. The Microraptor was redesigned; pilot Jebediah Kerman noted that it did a backflip without him needing to do anything and that the crash at the end of the backflip was satisfyingly explosive. Additional weight in the form of fuel tanks was added to the front and the launch sequence modified. The Microraptor again began to backflip and crash. (If the pilot ejects first, it isn't a crash!) Aft fuel tanks were moved forward and a passenger compartment added towards the front. Four ranking engineers died due to frontflip, which Jebediah Kerman noted was "an interesting change". The passenger compartment was removed, but the Microraptor continued to frontflip. The fuel tanks were moved back slightly. It flipped sideways, much to Jebediah's surprise. Engineers installed the other aft fuel tank and it flipped backwards. They inched it forwards, it flipped backwards. They threw pens at it, it flipped backwards. I decide to take a break from KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 06:08:23 pm
There are buttons for center of mass, thrust, and lift in the SPH/VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BullDog on February 16, 2014, 06:09:08 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.
Here is a list of the controls. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Key_bindings) Also, if you need tutorials, check here (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEm5nyZU3a-O2ak6mBYXWPAL) or here (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEmqpOkQZCl5SZB5t0vXuxE0).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on February 16, 2014, 06:47:52 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 05:49:57 pm
Although the whole "get into orbit and end up roughly where the Mun is" thing is a bit arcane to me. And it seems important.
Allow me to direct you to the glorious glory of "maneuver nodes". Click along your path to make a node, then drag the Prograde symbol (same as on the navball) until the projected orbit lines up with the Mun's. Then, just click the middle of the node to drag it around your orbit until it shows an encounter. Poof, you've got both time to burn and directino of burn displayed on the nav ball.

And yeah, if you need some more in-depth tutorials, I can't recommend Scott Manley's tutorial series highly enough.

...Also can I just take a moment to say that's like, the most awesome name that is real I've ever heard? Seriously. It's pronounced Scott Manly for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2014, 06:58:15 pm
Quote from: dragnar on February 16, 2014, 06:47:52 pm
And yeah, if you need some more in-depth tutorials, I can't recommend Scott Manley's tutorial series highly enough.

He restarted recently. (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEmqpOkQZCl5SZB5t0vXuxE0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:02:47 pm
Quote from: BullDog on February 16, 2014, 06:09:08 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.
Here is a list of the controls. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Key_bindings) Also, if you need tutorials, check here (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEm5nyZU3a-O2ak6mBYXWPAL) or here (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYu7z3I8tdEmqpOkQZCl5SZB5t0vXuxE0).
Thanks for the recommendations.

Quote from: dragnar on February 16, 2014, 06:47:52 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 05:49:57 pm
Although the whole "get into orbit and end up roughly where the Mun is" thing is a bit arcane to me. And it seems important.
Allow me to direct you to the glorious glory of "maneuver nodes". Click along your path to make a node, then drag the Prograde symbol (same as on the navball) until the projected orbit lines up with the Mun's. Then, just click the middle of the node to drag it around your orbit until it shows an encounter. Poof, you've got both time to burn and directino of burn displayed on the nav ball.
I've figured out the maneuver node thing, just not the "make it hit the Mun" thing.

Quote
...Also can I just take a moment to say that's like, the most awesome name that is real I've ever heard? Seriously. It's pronounced Scott Manly for crying out loud.
He's even Scottish.


I do a bit of "house cleaning," which consists of deleting old designs for stuff I'll never use. Many half-assembled and/or obsolete jets and a few highly explosive drones were tossed into a pile out back and lit in fire. That's when we discovered that Jebediah Kerman was sleeping in one of them. He died again.

I try flying one of the stock jets. Jebediah Kerman reported, after his two-and-a-half-minute flight that ended with his demise by crashing into a mountain on an offshore island, that it was easy to fly and handled well. He requested that these features be removed from future planes.

I decide to see how simple of a rocket can make it into orbit. One Landercan, one reaction wheel, one decoupler, one Jumbo-64 tank, one Mainsail. I was a bit doubtful at first, but then as fuel was expended and the kilometers weakened the pull of gravity, I had hope. And you know what?
We didn't quite make it.
Final apoapsis: Nearly 82 kilometers. We crashed about three minutes later. We didn't have room for a receiving radio antenna, which is probably part of why KerTube videos of the two crew-members as they realize they're not in orbit is already one of the most-viewed videos. Lengan Kerman, high of stupidity and low in courage, attempted to escape. He failed to achieve orbit, but he did buy himself a few minutes. It has been suggested that all future space helmets be equipped with a new device known as a Lengan Navchip to help them avoid such situations and get into orbit. This was nearly implemented until it was discovered that the Lengan Navchips appeared to be K-Scout Cookies that the daughter of one of the engineers was trying to pass off as computer chips. The girl was later said that K-Mints were not the best choice of cookie for such a procedure.
Another stage, one tank and one engine, is added. Hans and Sidfred Kerman, the latter possessing much of the Kerbal virtues of Courage and Stupidity, the former possessing almost none. Ascent was a bit wobbly; a touch of manual control supplemented the SAS. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the ascent was a bit slower than the first attempt's. Upon dropping the first stage, these problems virtually vanished. With nearly nine kilometers and an uncertain amount of vertical velocity added to the original design, it was hoped that this little craft could make it to space! And, you know, not fall right back down. It had a respectable apoapsis a bit above 80 kilometers when it started coasting, only about a third a tank of fuel left. And then someone accidentally hit spacebar and the launch had to be restarted. Three minutes, wasted. Much more stable first part, though. We reach apoapsis a hair under 80 kilometers, shove the periapsis just above atmosphere, and wait for the new apoapsis, more than half a megameter above the surface and on the opposite side, about half an hour away. They circularized their orbit with a bit more fuel, but they still had some! Hans and Sidfred proudly high-fived each other about their accomplishment. They were so close to becoming the first kerbals to reach orbit and return alive. All they had to do was point for Kermin, burn off their orbit, decouple, release their parachute...wait, why is there no "Release Parachute" button?
The two kerbals panicked, but settled down after a few days. They are now a hit reality TV show.

New idea: Pirate raiders attacking the reality TV show for undefined reasons!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:08:38 pm
:D

GWG, you should do that more often. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:31:38 pm
Do what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:33:26 pm
Write that sort of thing. Make a KSP LP or something. This is amaaazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:37:35 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:02:47 pm
I've figured out the maneuver node thing, just not the "make it hit the Mun" thing.


The non-sciency version: Put yourself into a roughly equatorial orbit heading east over Kerbin. Wait for the Mun to rise, then burn prograde until you hit encounter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:44:43 pm
Quote from: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:33:26 pm
Write that sort of thing. Make a KSP LP or something. This is amaaazing.
I've been thinking of something like this. KSP is pretty ideal for my LPing capabilities (ie, no video), since there usually isn't much action.

Of course, every time I think about using my writing for something I feel a tiny pang of guilt for putting off whatever my latest writing idea is (currently, a story based off of my first XCOM playthrough). Still, I think this could be good too.

Quote from: greatorder on February 16, 2014, 08:42:58 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:02:47 pm
I've figured out the maneuver node thing, just not the "make it hit the Mun" thing.
Use the maneouver node to get an intercept with the body (mun, eve, kerbin, kerbol, whatever), burn the way the node tells you to, once you get into the body's SoI, face the opposite direction to that which you are travelling, then burn until you are in orbit (to create an orbit) or have no lateral velocity (to land). Wait to get close-ish to the surface, point upwards, and burn. Give yourself enough time, but not so much that you waste fuel. (I've never been good at judging this), and, once near the surface (at this point, you should be going pretty slow), try to make your velocity as close to 0 as possible when you land.
The "get the maneuver node to an intercept" bit is the tricky part. How do you tell where the intercepted body will be in however much time?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:47:40 pm
That changes depending on how you set patched conics (that is, the way it displays when you change Spheres of Influence.)

For the most energy-efficient results, you want a Hohmann transfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit). The  Phase Angle Calculator (http://ksp.olex.biz/) is good for interplanetary stuff, just remember inclination. For the Mun, you can approximate this with surprising ease: get into a low orbit on Kerbin and burn prograde at Munrise.
Minmus is MUCH easier to land on, but you might have to fiddle with timing and inclination to get there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:53:45 pm
Quote from: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:47:40 pm
That changes depending on how you set patched conics (that is, the way it displays when you change Spheres of Influence.)
Um...default?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:54:30 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 08:53:45 pm
Quote from: Twi on February 16, 2014, 08:47:40 pm
That changes depending on how you set patched conics (that is, the way it displays when you change Spheres of Influence.)
Um...default?
It's been so long I forget what default is. Give me a bit to find the appropriate Scott Manley video and/or topic...

in the meantime, see above-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 09:16:36 pm
Thanks for all your trying at explaining, but Menley's video was immensely helpful, in large part because...it was a video.

And because it taught me I could move maneuver nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on February 16, 2014, 09:19:07 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 09:16:36 pm
Thanks for all your trying at explaining, but Menley's video was immensely helpful, in large part because...it was a video.

And because it taught me I could move maneuver nodes.

Videos are indeed helpful. :P even pictures.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 09:56:58 pm
The LP (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136443.0)

I might still post sandbox stuff here. Who knows?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 17, 2014, 01:03:59 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I made it to Minmus! Without blowing up! And I made it back!

Woooo!

Edit: fixed tag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 17, 2014, 06:02:15 am
Everyones crafts look so fucking sleek and awesome... Mine look like the Borg just puked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 17, 2014, 06:28:23 am
Mine are just super-efficient science-draining-machines.

I'm going to try The Interstellar Quest next...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on February 17, 2014, 08:31:04 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on February 17, 2014, 01:03:59 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I made it to Minmus! Without blowing up! And I made it back!

Woooo!

Edit: fixed tag.
...How on EARTH did you land that thing? o_0 That has to be the single most unstable lander I have ever laid eyes on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 17, 2014, 08:44:57 am
No, no, on Minimus, not Earth. Also, I've been landing virtual planes and spaceships since the 80s. This was easy compared to Top Gun on the NES. (Fucking aircraft carriers, man.)

Anyway, it hit the ground, bounced and turned hard onto its side, and I RCS'ed it back into an upright position before it smacked the turf. Easy.

The only problem I had was that it tore itself apart upon parachuting on Kerbin. Lost 150 science in the science capsule, but I got 200+ from the mission anyway, so I got a couple of upgrades.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 17, 2014, 09:08:03 am
Snarky suggestion: Spend it on "not losing science capsules to parachutes".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on February 17, 2014, 09:10:09 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on February 16, 2014, 03:48:02 pm
what is it that you need to learn, tell me, and i will provide you an useless tutorial free of charge
The controls.

you press these buttons (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Key_bindings) to acquire the effects that are specified on the page where the controls are listed

seriously, useless was the key word. you should go on a wiki binge (it's not exactly a walk yo) and read all the little things you don't know since it's a source of info varying from a+ to b or b-
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 17, 2014, 10:38:21 am
Spoiler: Topgun! (click to show/hide)

Landing on the Mun is actually a lot harder than on Minmus... My lander needs more TWR :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on February 17, 2014, 02:15:35 pm
Eh, getting to Minmus is easier. You just need to burn a little bit more fuel. Not much. The landing is what gets you, not the intercept, and landing on Minmus is easier than Mun.

Also, I haven't played in a while, but didn't they change it so you can grab Science from the devices via EVA, and pop them into your capsule? So you can lose everything except the capsule and get every science.

It's possible you need that science station part, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on February 17, 2014, 02:28:26 pm
Quote from: Descan on February 17, 2014, 02:15:35 pm
Also, I haven't played in a while, but didn't they change it so you can grab Science from the devices via EVA, and pop them into your capsule? So you can lose everything except the capsule and get every science.

It's possible you need that science station part, though.

You do not - I can confirm that you can do this in EVA even without the science processing unit (or whatever it's called).  I actually did this when a similar situation happened - my goo pod detached on landing, so was never going to return, but I simply walked a kerbonaut over to it, collected the data, walked back to the pod, stored data, then got in and took off and returned.  Bam, full science.  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 17, 2014, 03:00:58 pm
You only need the science module to reset the science jr. and the goo, but you can also just bring multiples of those, that saves a lot of weight...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 17, 2014, 03:06:15 pm
Huh. Now I know. This time, I'll take a goo, science Jr, and possibly a thermometer to minmus or the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2014, 03:37:14 pm
You can collect and store, via eva, multiple crew reports among other things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 17, 2014, 06:00:26 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on February 17, 2014, 03:06:15 pm
Huh. Now I know. This time, I'll take a goo, science Jr, and possibly a thermometer to minmus or the mun.
I often take 3 or four of jr+goo for MAXIMUMSCIENCE.

The "Interstellar Quest" is hard. I keep miscalculating things, like G-forces or staging, or life support or that parachutes need electricity, and "reverting" is not allowed. So many dead kerbals already...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 17, 2014, 10:58:47 pm
"Interstellar Quest"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2014, 11:10:56 pm
It's a collection of mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 17, 2014, 11:37:38 pm
Oh. Life support sounds neat.

Anyways. Random Page brought me to one in Chinese.
Spoiler: Translation (click to show/hide)
Link. (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:_Gemini_6A_and_7/zh-cn)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 18, 2014, 03:22:58 am
Got to the Mun. Landed on the Mun. Celebrated. Ran out of fuel. Swore a lot. Reverted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on February 18, 2014, 07:23:07 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 17, 2014, 10:58:47 pm
"Interstellar Quest"?
A collection of mods that barely works together but creates an altogether different experience, a bit like Masterwork vs Vanilla DF.
If you google it, there is a "complete pack" that contains them all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 19, 2014, 08:20:05 pm
I've been requested to make a sciencing hovercraft in the LP I'm running, so I decided to practice. I set out to make a hovercraft that would make the engineers of Kerbin proud.

Then I made this.
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1811/urgt.png)
It did this...
(http://i.imgur.com/L8I1gpR.png)
...and while I was taking the screenshot it crashed and exploded. Seven seconds in the air.

I added some reaction wheels and turned on the SAS. It "worked," but if the throttle was ever less than full it would start drifting downwards and crash.

Another flight is in order! I panicked after it began wobbling due to SAS being off...
(http://i.imgur.com/h4nj2IF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/P1oE4OV.png)
Basically, the hovercraft crashed and the middle part exploded, with other parts flying off and exploding. The only intact bits? One reaction wheel...and the command pod.

Another test shows that its maneuverability is...lacking. Oh, and landing is hard. That could be a problem for the LP. Ah well, I'll figure something out. And dawn is breaking, how can I be sad about that?
(http://i.imgur.com/Tc0iKR3.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 19, 2014, 08:31:04 pm
Try moving the front boosters forwards a little.
The command pod unbalances it, probably.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 19, 2014, 09:26:12 pm
Thanks for the advice.


I'm trying to design something like Macey Dean's Dragonfly, but suffering because tricks like "stacking air intakes" and "being able to put ion drives...anywhere really" are beyond my grasp.
EDIT: Figured that out. Now to figure out "Flying without Crashing".
EDITEDIT: Losing the torpedo didn't help, it's still falling forward.
E3: I took off (it was a weight issue), but sadly failed to achieve SSTO. Ran out of air too early, the ions couldn't compensate. Thankfully, the parachutes work.
E4: Um, belay that; the parachutes rip everything off the cockpit when they deploy. Well, Jeb's safe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 20, 2014, 11:49:33 am
You need more intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 20, 2014, 03:43:12 pm
Yeah. Problem is, I already have more than should be fitting. And last time I added more intakes, it was too heavy to fly.

Definitely going to be the first thing I do when I get back to that, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 20, 2014, 04:10:23 pm
I seem to have returned to the "Cant Take Off" part. I decided to add a couple little rocket engines and a small fuel tank, which let it take off, but well...
(http://i.imgur.com/t5JJ3vc.png)
...I should have waited for the thing to get to a bit better velocity before trying to level out.
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1129/go5n.png)
And I should remember to turn on SAS.
(http://i.imgur.com/YJWaypg.png)
Okay, it's unstable.
(http://i.imgur.com/gyuINgb.png)
Maybe I should reconsider this design.

But later, I need to go now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2014, 07:00:16 pm
meanwhile I discovered Scott Manley did a mission to the Mun without altimeter and speedometer, using only the iva view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0c-gx03DpM

 :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 20, 2014, 08:07:14 pm
Hes not the only one. HOC gaming did it too.

And technically that cockpit has the altimeter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 20, 2014, 08:08:02 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2014, 07:00:16 pm
meanwhile I discovered Scott Manley did a mission to the Mun without altimeter and speedometer, using only the iva view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0c-gx03DpM

 :o
Isn't there an altimeter in the IVA?
And I, for one, haven't really used the speedometer except for the attempted SSTO and sometimes when the game recorded me as moving across the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 20, 2014, 08:10:12 pm
Without the glaringly obvious external altimeter, he means.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 20, 2014, 08:12:24 pm
Do you need that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2014, 08:28:25 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 20, 2014, 08:08:02 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on February 20, 2014, 07:00:16 pm
meanwhile I discovered Scott Manley did a mission to the Mun without altimeter and speedometer, using only the iva view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0c-gx03DpM

 :o
Isn't there an altimeter in the IVA?
And I, for one, haven't really used the speedometer except for the attempted SSTO and sometimes when the game recorded me as moving across the surface.


the lander can has only the radio altimeter which is useless above 30k; without horizontal speed and the altitude it's kind of hard knowing which orbit you are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 20, 2014, 10:19:39 pm
I attempted to solve stability issues by putting more reaction wheels on the Shrike.
(http://i.imgur.com/zLsws7E.png)
This had only marginal improvement.

I decide to instead try adding an engine to the belly of the plane. It worked for a while...
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4161/sw1m.png)
...but evidently was nose-heavy or something.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1723/1yca.png)
(Which is odd to me, because the rocket fuel tank was emptied pretty quickly.)

Adjustments are made, moving things backwards. Things go well, until I screw up, lose my momentum, and start to fall.
(http://i.imgur.com/3ooXM7a.png)
Yes, that is my jet engine far away, having fallen off when I deployed my parachute. Aside from that, the landing was flawless.

The next launch went well, until I got bored, tried to hit V, and accidentally hit the spacebar, releasing the parachutes. It doesn't take a genius to realize that those will hurt your already-slim chance of orbit, so I gave up for that launch, and for now because I'm tired of flying that thing.


On that note, does anyone have advice for getting spaceplanes to orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on February 20, 2014, 10:30:32 pm
The way I did it was I started small.  I got the smallest plane I could get that could take off, fly, and land.   Then I added more fuel to it, and then I added more fuel, then bigger wings, then a bigger engine, and so on.   As you go along you make small adjustments to keep it able to take off.   
Are you trying to just get a spaceplane to orbit, or do you want a single stage to orbit plane?   If you just want it to get to orbit build a giant sled made from six large solid fuel rockets.  Once you reach the end of the runway release the plane form the sled, and you are at takeoff speed, and you don't have to worry about wheels.
You also don't need all those intakes.    Removing some of them would probably help. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on February 20, 2014, 10:32:04 pm
Seriously GWG, 1 intake PER ENGINE. Fucking hell dude, that shit is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 20, 2014, 11:38:15 pm
You need more than one per engine for a space plane. They need to lean burn air as long as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 12:21:43 am
Alright so, this is what happens when i think of XCOM and KSP in the same train of thought:

(Warning, large-ass images.)
Spoiler: XCOM Skyranger (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: XCOM Interceptor (click to show/hide)

I like how the Skyranger turned out, though sadly it flies like a brick. You can barely see them, but there's a whole bunch of RCS thrusters on the underside (which technically is faithful to the Skyranger's specs, it has vents under there so it can do VTOL), and they're the only thing that can make this beast pull up in any kinda capacity. Turn them off, the Skyranger just dives.

The Interceptor on the other hand flies fairly decently, as long as i keep SAS on because it wants to pull up otherwise.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on February 21, 2014, 02:04:45 am
Those are awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on February 21, 2014, 02:24:39 am
Quote from: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 12:21:43 am
I like how the Skyranger turned out, though sadly it flies like a brick. You can barely see them, but there's a whole bunch of RCS thrusters on the underside (which technically is faithful to the Skyranger's specs, it has vents under there so it can do VTOL), and they're the only thing that can make this beast pull up in any kinda capacity. Turn them off, the Skyranger just dives.

Let's be completely honest, the Skyranger /is/ a brick. I imagine the only reason it'd ever fly in real life is a combination of high-speed, computer controlled trim and a whole lot of aerodynamic tricks you can't easily replicate in KSP. Or in real life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 10:01:23 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on February 20, 2014, 10:30:32 pm
The way I did it was I started small.  I got the smallest plane I could get that could take off, fly, and land.   Then I added more fuel to it, and then I added more fuel, then bigger wings, then a bigger engine, and so on.   As you go along you make small adjustments to keep it able to take off.   
Are you trying to just get a spaceplane to orbit, or do you want a single stage to orbit plane?   If you just want it to get to orbit build a giant sled made from six large solid fuel rockets.  Once you reach the end of the runway release the plane form the sled, and you are at takeoff speed, and you don't have to worry about wheels.
You also don't need all those intakes.    Removing some of them would probably help.
SSTO. And when I had less engines, I had way too little air when they ran out.

Quote from: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 12:21:43 am
-snip-
Well, that's pretty much what the Skuranger does in-game, isn't it? (And I would have thought a single jet engine would be more like what the Skyranger uses.)

Three questions.
1. Does the Skyranger have passenger space? You know, for the team?
2. Does the interceptor have any kind of weapons?
3. Do you feel up to replicating a Firestorm?

And finally...I had an idea sort of the inverse of this a few days ago.
Aliens invade Kerbin, forcing X-KOM to form. Hilarity ensues. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 21, 2014, 10:30:12 am
K-Kom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 02:25:23 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 10:01:23 am
Quote from: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 12:21:43 am
-snip-
Three questions.
1. Does the Skyranger have passenger space? You know, for the team?
Nope, don't have any parts that would work for this.
2. Does the interceptor have any kind of weapons?
It can crash into something. :P
3. Do you feel up to replicating a Firestorm?
I have a rough theory as to how it might work, but i'm still going over it in my head to try and figure out if it's even possible. It'll require mapping different thrusters hidden within the body to different keys, and a way to keep the thing stable instead of tipping over when i move it horizontally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 04:05:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on February 21, 2014, 10:30:12 am
K-Kom.
Eh. Too many K's.

Quote from: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 02:25:23 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 10:01:23 am
Quote from: 612DwarfAvenue on February 21, 2014, 12:21:43 am
-snip-
Three questions.
1. Does the Skyranger have passenger space? You know, for the team?
Nope, don't have any parts that would work for this.
2. Does the interceptor have any kind of weapons?
It can crash into something. :P
3. Do you feel up to replicating a Firestorm?
I have a rough theory as to how it might work, but i'm still going over it in my head to try and figure out if it's even possible. It'll require mapping different thrusters hidden within the body to different keys, and a way to keep the thing stable instead of tipping over when i move it horizontally.
1. What about the Hitchhiker thingy? Or, barring that, put six seats on the outside.
2. That's...not much help. If you're interested, Macey Dean did a tutorial on making weapons. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_830935&feature=iv&src_vid=WpPbxx8JDpM&v=SCrGZhKJ_mc)
3. If you ever decide to work it out, post it here. Please.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 21, 2014, 04:11:44 pm
Dang ninjaed...


well, theres K-Com.

1.crew tank! Crewtank!
2. Exactly!
3. I have no idea what that is, and cant find images. Fucking new version...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 08:52:29 pm
Here. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=xcom+firestorm)
Something tells me you didn't think to add "xcom"...heck, even with the dash it works...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 21, 2014, 10:19:51 pm
I did. I searched with "firestorm original xcom"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 21, 2014, 11:15:19 pm
I did as well.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3095/1cg8.png)
...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on February 21, 2014, 11:51:02 pm
Hyphenate it, of course:
(http://ufopedia.csignal.org/ufopedia/004.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 22, 2014, 11:50:55 am
Good luck flying that if you actually put it's main propulsion in the center, I'll take the brick instead.
The skyranger looks excellent, I've noticed your engines are lower than in the game, but I'm sure thats because you need it to actually fly.
The interceptor however, eh, the wings arent deep enough or pointy enough for my taste, Its nose is too rounded, limitation of stock parts i guess, but maybe try chines?
The interceptor always reminded me of early 60's fighters with their bare metal chrome looks, but I recently realised that nobody put 2 tails onto a delta winged craft because of the drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 22, 2014, 12:19:35 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on February 22, 2014, 11:50:55 am
Good luck flying that if you actually put it's main propulsion in the center, I'll take the brick instead.
Perhaps that could be an engine that just gives lift, and smaller (RCS?) engines around the sides provide the actual thrust?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 22, 2014, 05:11:30 pm
Or have ants provide the side thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 22, 2014, 05:27:38 pm
I'm going to try that. Really, what's the worst that could happen? i'm not going for a Firestorm as much as a generic UFO, though. With a big ugly node on top for storing the five missiles I added.

The first version had two large issues with the engine: It not only drained all the fuel from the missiles, it wasn't strong enough to lift the ungaily contraption. I fiddle with the craft, replacing the Poodle with a Skipper and adding a small steel bar between the missile pod and the rest.
It went well enough, although trying to get to a proper hovering throttle lead to rising up and falling down unstoppably, exploding and killing..wait, no, the command pod was just separated from the fuel tank that was the first part. Well, let's try that again. The second test discovered that full throttle caused a gentle lifting off, while one tick less caused falling. Trying to find the point where lift just equals weight discovered a new flaw: Fuel capacity.

These launches, incidentally, left no further than 30 pieces of debris, not counting the parts that counted as vehicles or which included the manned component of the vehicles.


Abruptly switching gears, I decide to try launching a probe into interstellar space, as well as using asparagus staging.

(http://i.imgur.com/GQEfBL0.png)

It looks silly, but let's see how it does! One thing that becomes obvious immediately is that there are structural issues, in the sense that the main engine got left behind on the launchpad due to evidently falling off.
The relaunch's takeoff, while faster than the original "Mainsail fell off" version, is still a bit more sluggish than many rockets. Still, it works well. Before long, I'm releasing my first set of fuel tanks. Overheat in the main engine remains pretty steady at 50% of the bar or so, but it's still a bit worrisome...
At the one-minute mark, we're at 5,740 meters and our second set of fuel tanks is half-out. Those tanks are released just under half a minute later, as we were in the middle of our gravity turn. One of them hit one of the remaining side engines! To avoid unbalance, I release it worriedly. Without stability systems, it soon enough begins rocketing towards the sea. By the two-minute mark, I have my spacecraft pretty much under control.
The mainsail gets released at a bit over 30,000 meters. By this point I had hoped to at least be in orbit, but instead I'm on one of my last stages (after this one big orange tank of fuel I have just a little Rockomax-8 one and the probe's own ion engines) and still struggling to get into orbit.
We hit space just after the four-minute mark, precisely a minute before apoapsis. Our last big engine has 3/4 or 4/5 if a tank left. We've got a pack of cigarettes, it's dark in space, a and someone left a set of sunglasses on the probe.
Hit it.,
We get into a slightly elliptical (100,742a/70,944p) orbit, perhaps 45 degrees off the equatorial, and still have 20-25% of our stage's fuel left. Now for a maneuver node...or several, each pushing the orbit THAT much further out, burning prograde at the apoapsis...wait, that doesn't sound right.
After some checking and stuff, I correct my escaping stuff and ready myself for a one-minute burn that whoops, I kept typing after alt-tabbing to KSP and wound up dropping my fuel. If I can still manage the ~1,230 m/s Δv, I'll get a nice little orbit tangent to that of Kerbin (of course) and with a periapsis a bit under eleven billion meters from the Sun.

And I did it. I still have a third of the fuel tank left.
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2001/5zyp.png)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9331/zxpl.png)
For the first time, I have sent something out into the icy black of interplanetary space. No idea where the little Asparagus Probe will go, or what it could do...but the sky is no longer the limit for the little green men.


Quote from: Aseaheru on February 22, 2014, 05:11:30 pm
Or have ants provide the side thrust.
Ants?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 22, 2014, 05:29:17 pm
Tiny engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on February 22, 2014, 08:01:03 pm
People call it an ant because its flavor text is "What is this, an engine for ants?"

KSP flavor text is unbelievably tasty. like bacon flavor whip cream.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 23, 2014, 12:03:43 am
That sounds disgusting. However, whipped cream with bacon bits in sounds like it could be very good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 23, 2014, 12:29:46 pm
Just in case people don't know about Cupcake's versatile, mass balanced, and heavily part-clipped vehicles. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27424-Cupcake-s-Dropship-Dealership) A lot of them can be docked and fly together. They all utilize some sort of drop tank depending on the mission you need. Many can go most anywhere in the solar system all by themselves and return to Kerbin.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He did a Jool mission recently using an old craft. (https://www.youtube.com/user/CupcakesLanders/videos?flow=grid&view=0) The primary vehicle got back to Kerbin on fumes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now HirinOptimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 23, 2014, 03:19:02 pm
Aw man. His ships look awesome AND perform awesome. I'm lucky if I get mediocre in one and workable in the other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 23, 2014, 03:26:09 pm
This monstrosity can get to 100km orbit with about 1400m/s to spare, but kinda relies on Tac Fuel Balancer mod. It is in no way efficient, has no space tape, and no fuel lines. It's just a fairly early career tech rocket.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's just a slapped together thing that works for early science gathering. I can't remember if I ever got to the Mun or not. It's really just around to get up and plop down into any Kerbin biome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 24, 2014, 07:09:10 am
If you want a hovercraft/flying saucer/helicopter-gyro-whatever You pretty much need to use jet engines for the low fuel consumption...
In fact, I want a UFO now, lets see what I can come up with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 24, 2014, 08:45:35 am
It's not a flying saucer if it can't at least fly between planets...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 24, 2014, 04:12:24 pm
SABRE and Nuclear engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 24, 2014, 04:16:56 pm
Ions!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 24, 2014, 04:21:10 pm
That's a really good idea. Maybe SSTO SABRE, then 10+ Ions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 24, 2014, 08:20:58 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on February 24, 2014, 04:21:10 pm
That's a really good idea. Maybe SSTO SABRE, then 10+ Ions?
Sounds good. Macey made an SSTO fighterjet with one turbojet engine and half a dozen ions, which is largely what inspired by horribly-failed attempts.

Quote from: greatorder on February 24, 2014, 07:45:51 pm
Also, ion engines look cool.
They also sound cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on February 24, 2014, 09:02:06 pm
Recently had a successful Mun rescue. This ship
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
was used to suck Minmus dry of science, and could have been trimmed down even more for that duty. Sadly, it didn't have enough juice to successfully reenter Munar orbit, never mind dock with the mother ship. So, in comes the Munar megascience lander! (Pictured docked to the Megascience Mothership)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Landing gears are for suckers, struts are where it's at! Capable of extreme landings of up to 90 m/s with only slight catastrophic disassembly!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 24, 2014, 11:30:43 pm
On the other hand, they're less likely to have Jebediah rocket off into space because you suck at rocket-pack controls.

Again. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136443.135)

Any advice on how to get out of that pickle?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on February 25, 2014, 09:14:26 am
For UFO, use the new RAPIER engines.

Air breathing in atmosphere, switches to oxidizer once it clears to space.

Its a Hybrid worthy of any smug San Francisco hippie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 10:01:41 am
How exactly would one go about making a circular ship, anyway?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 11:13:39 am
Quote from: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 10:01:41 am
How exactly would one go about making a circular ship, anyway?
It's not easy, or pretty, but you can approximate it with hexaradial symmetry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 11:22:35 am
The one thing I dislike about the current engine: you can fork parts but you can't get them back together again. You can't build a square box without a lot of space tape.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 11:44:09 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 11:13:39 am
Quote from: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 10:01:41 am
How exactly would one go about making a circular ship, anyway?
It's not easy, or pretty, but you can approximate it with hexaradial symmetry.
But that just ain't the same, maaaaaaan.
I must contact a modder, and ask them to make a disc hull...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on February 25, 2014, 12:36:05 pm
You could probably make something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And it would probably work just as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 12:59:15 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 11:44:09 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 11:13:39 am
Quote from: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 10:01:41 am
How exactly would one go about making a circular ship, anyway?
It's not easy, or pretty, but you can approximate it with hexaradial symmetry.
But that just ain't the same, maaaaaaan.
I must contact a modder, and ask them to make a disc hull...

There are donuts of various dimensions built as habitat. You could go from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 01:00:43 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 11:22:35 am
The one thing I dislike about the current engine: you can fork parts but you can't get them back together again. You can't build a square box without a lot of space tape.
Huh? What about bi- and tri- and quad-couplers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 01:21:27 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 01:00:43 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 11:22:35 am
The one thing I dislike about the current engine: you can fork parts but you can't get them back together again. You can't build a square box without a lot of space tape.
Huh? What about bi- and tri- and quad-couplers?

You can't get them back together again at the other end. Put two tri couplers together. They are only connected at one node, not three. Use three way symmetry on an I-beam on one tri coupler. You can't get the I-beams' other ends together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on February 25, 2014, 01:26:37 pm
You can use docking ports, though it's weaker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on February 25, 2014, 01:44:58 pm
I've just tried the demo and it looks awesome! only one thing though...
When ever I successfully (unsuccessful is when I launch but instead of flying something breaks off from the ship then it crashes on the ground) launch, the rocket starts tilting slowly until it starts heading for the beach and crashes :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 01:52:33 pm
I don't know much about the demo, but try using more wings and SAS modules. If there are any things on the outside which may cause drag, remove them or add them on the other side too.

On a more basic level, if you aren't using auto-symmetry, use it. One booster being just a little higher than the others can do that do ya.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on February 25, 2014, 01:53:55 pm
Sounds like a case of pushing the throttle too hard. Let up on it a little while you're in the lower atmosphere or add more parts which give you better control like control fins, vectored thrust engines and SAS/Reaction Wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on February 25, 2014, 01:59:46 pm
Well, I did push the throttle up button for a very long time so that might be the problem, thanks.




Quote from: IronTomato on February 25, 2014, 01:52:33 pm
I don't know much about the demo, but try using more wings and SAS modules. If there are any things on the outside which may cause drag, remove them or add them on the other side too.

On a more basic level, if you aren't using auto-symmetry, use it. One booster being just a little higher than the others can do that do ya.

I did this when the rocket hit the beach, the wings jumped off the rocket and exploded, then I pressed the launch button again and it went up then crashed to the beach.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on February 25, 2014, 02:44:13 pm
You could try using the procedural fairings mod to make the UFO. It should give you a nice, clean curve. I wish it had existed when I built my first Foo Fighter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 25, 2014, 05:57:44 pm
so you inspired me this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


it can barely reach orbit. but the most interesting part are all the little detail that got added, one failure at a time.

like, it has backward intake scopes, so the rapier can breathe while landing (crash1)
it has some girders extending from the middle tanks that don't have rapier, so that it is more resistant to landing (crash2) and it has the engines double strapped to the struts to avoid them falling on touchdown (crash3)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 25, 2014, 09:41:09 pm
Huh... I wonder if I could make a UFO powered by phantom forces now that I'm using a modpack which includes a freely rotating ball bearing system. Though I also need to see if phantom forces work at all in FAR... Science time.

edit: Nope, my classic phantom forces abusing design fails to function at all in FAR; if anything, it slows it down.

Edit2: So instead, in the style of XKCD What If, I did even better. I modified the Infernal Robotics rotating docking collar to spin at a rate of 500 instead of 20, and built a helicopter prototype. More to follow.

Edit3: Remember folks, just because it's impossible, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. UFO:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For the curious, that's using the Interstellar Quest mods (including FAR), with only modifications to the Infernal Robotics rotational docking collars (increasing their speed from 20 to 500). It has 2 sets of rotors, in order to counteract any torque, which works perfectly. Each set of rotors has 2 layers of 4 fan blades each made of 2 SH 4x1 wings (B9 aerospace I believe?). It goes up at around .2 m/s, before eventually tipping sideways due to lack of other controls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 10:59:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on February 25, 2014, 01:21:27 pm
You can't get them back together again at the other end. Put two tri couplers together. They are only connected at one node, not three. Use three way symmetry on an I-beam on one tri coupler. You can't get the I-beams' other ends together.
Really? Huh.

Quote from: Lt_Alfred on February 25, 2014, 01:44:58 pm
I've just tried the demo and it looks awesome! only one thing though...
When ever I successfully (unsuccessful is when I launch but instead of flying something breaks off from the ship then it crashes on the ground) launch, the rocket starts tilting slowly until it starts heading for the beach and crashes :(
Was the SAS on? Did you have SAS modules? (I believe they're under Control.)

Quote from: LoSboccacc on February 25, 2014, 05:57:44 pm
-snip-
Awesome.
Wait, air intake depends on the orientation of the intake? That's...unexpectedly realistic and stuff...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 26, 2014, 02:48:43 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 10:59:52 pm
Awesome.
Wait, air intake depends on the orientation of the intake? That's...unexpectedly realistic and stuff...

well, it's complicate: they provide air flying backward (a long standing bug) but rapier somehow knows something is up and don't switch to atmospheric, which is bad because the limited amount of oxidizer that ship carries.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on February 26, 2014, 01:49:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 25, 2014, 10:59:52 pm
Quote from: Lt_Alfred on February 25, 2014, 01:44:58 pm
I've just tried the demo and it looks awesome! only one thing though...
When ever I successfully (unsuccessful is when I launch but instead of flying something breaks off from the ship then it crashes on the ground) launch, the rocket starts tilting slowly until it starts heading for the beach and crashes :(
Was the SAS on? Did you have SAS modules? (I believe they're under Control.)

I tried it with the SAS and it worked, managed to get old Jeb into orbit but ran out of fuel, and if I add more fuel tanks the rocket loses balance crashes.

How do you set the launch stages? as in which engines get fired up first, when should the detach things cut off said engines and their fuel tanks after they're exhausted and so on...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 26, 2014, 02:47:36 pm
Just click and drag the icons on the right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on February 26, 2014, 03:02:10 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 26, 2014, 02:47:36 pm
Just click and drag the icons on the right.

drag to where?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 26, 2014, 03:20:47 pm
The other header numbers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 26, 2014, 03:44:16 pm
I've been rereading the xkcd archives backwards, and came across this a while back.

Sounds like the Kerbal engineers designed a Munar rocket. (http://www.xkcd.com/1133/)

((I knew there was somewhere I could post this that justified keeping it open in another tab!))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MorleyDev on February 26, 2014, 03:49:25 pm
The alt-text for that is about 80% of all my launches in this game :P

Also I recently started playing with the Realistic Tech Tree Lite. I dunno why, but there's something satisfying about getting probes before manned and actually sending probes to the Mun, Minmus and such before daring to send a Kerbal. It feels more...sciency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on February 26, 2014, 03:54:10 pm
Agreed. The vanilla way feels a bit backward. Though, I can't get any mods to work at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on February 26, 2014, 04:37:44 pm
For some reason training and scenarios don't work for me, I press the button but nothing happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on February 26, 2014, 04:45:21 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 26, 2014, 03:44:16 pm
I've been rereading the xkcd archives backwards, and came across this a while back.

Sounds like the Kerbal engineers designed a Munar rocket. (http://www.xkcd.com/1133/)

((I knew there was somewhere I could post this that justified keeping it open in another tab!))
I have that as a poster in my room.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 27, 2014, 09:19:25 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on February 26, 2014, 04:45:21 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 26, 2014, 03:44:16 pm
I've been rereading the xkcd archives backwards, and came across this a while back.

Sounds like the Kerbal engineers designed a Munar rocket. (http://www.xkcd.com/1133/)

((I knew there was somewhere I could post this that justified keeping it open in another tab!))
I have that as a poster in my room.
Neat. Not the xkcd I'd put in my room*, but it's neat nonetheless.
*I'm not sure which one I would want--maybe the scrolling one?--but it wouldn't be one where stuff was described with the ten hundred words people use most often.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on February 28, 2014, 05:08:51 pm
GAHHHH

So after a ridiculous number of failed attempts, I finally get the Hecate version III up to the moon and back, unlike versions I and II which just got stranded and/or blew up after falling over (seriously, landing would be easy-peasy if it would just STAHP FALLIN DOWN)

But anyway, get it splashed in the water, recover it, get mah science and then I realize that I didn't throttle down the engines before recovering, so the mission from MISSION CONTROLLER DIDN'T COMPLETE, SO I EARNED NO MUNNIES.

GOD DAMMIT IT IS SO HARD TO REMEMBER THAT SHIT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on February 28, 2014, 08:15:32 pm
Thats why mods with that guff stink!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on February 28, 2014, 09:07:26 pm
Yeah, I stopped using that one because of how finicky it was with that stuff. "What? You forgot to hit Finished when you landed? Well screw you then, you're now broke."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 28, 2014, 09:11:07 pm
Quote from: alway on February 28, 2014, 09:07:26 pm
Yeah, I stopped using that one because of how finicky it was with that stuff. "What? You forgot to hit Finished when you landed? Well screw you then, you're now broke."

Not just broke, but in the negative with no way of recovering because you owe interest for missions that have no or slim profits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on February 28, 2014, 11:45:48 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on February 28, 2014, 09:53:36 pm
Am I the only one who finds career mode a bit to... hard?
It seems like I have to grind science for days if I want to do anything interesting, and my rocker designs are horrible...
Maybe you shouldn't make any kind of chair. Or musician. Or musical chair.

Quote from: Cmega3 on February 28, 2014, 10:58:40 pm
Now, I shall use this science to make something awesome!
Suggestions? I can send pics of my tech tree.
Ion/Jet hybrid SSTO?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on February 28, 2014, 11:47:06 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 28, 2014, 11:45:48 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on February 28, 2014, 09:53:36 pm
Am I the only one who finds career mode a bit to... hard?
It seems like I have to grind science for days if I want to do anything interesting, and my rocker designs are horrible...
Maybe you shouldn't make any kind of chair. Or musician. Or musical chair.

Musical rocking chairs... Sounds dangerous... Sounds..... Kerbal
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 01, 2014, 01:07:26 am
You want fuel systems. Fuel systems is the most important thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 01, 2014, 03:22:59 pm
Needs more science lab.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 01, 2014, 05:38:16 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 01, 2014, 05:30:16 pm
Wow. Docking is HARD.
I didn't even know how maneuvers worked until right now, and getting the degrees and next encounter lined up is like dancing on a wet frzoen metal pole between to skyscrapers.
No, getting them to within 20 metres or so to each other is easy. What's hard is getting them to touch in the right places.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on March 01, 2014, 05:42:25 pm
Thats why the Kergods gave us RCS thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 01, 2014, 07:44:36 pm
Quote from: Mictlantecuhtli on March 01, 2014, 05:42:25 pm
Thats why the Kergods gave us RCS thrusters.
I never remember the translation controls. There's just so many.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 02, 2014, 11:10:34 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 01, 2014, 01:07:26 am
You want fuel systems. Fuel systems is the most important thing.
Aerodynamics is better.

Having a first stage ring of jet engines for your rocket is basically cheating, because it takes practically no space and can get you up to 10000 kilometers without even touching your precious rocket fuel.
Its like instant, free orbit.

At least, that's what my experience with it has been so far.

Thinking of later using RAPIERs as the first stage and incorporating them into an asparagus that starts once the orbital burn begins. MIN/MAXING, IN SPACE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 02, 2014, 04:59:40 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 02, 2014, 12:53:32 pm
YEAH! Got close enought to station to manage a docking!
....aaaand because I put the docks on the side of both stations I can't get it to work properly and have spent the last 45 minutes dancing fruitlessly around it in hopes that they'll connect somehow  ::)

Ah, young love.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 03:37:13 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 01, 2014, 05:30:16 pm
Wow. Docking is HARD.
I didn't even know how maneuvers worked until right now, and getting the degrees and next encounter lined up is like dancing on a wet frzoen metal pole between to skyscrapers.
This vid (can't find it because browser at work sucks but google for ksp docking without rcs) made them ridiculously easy for me. It's all about setting the station as your target, switch your speedometer to "target" (I didn't know it could do that) and then you can burn retrograde to match speeds. Then burn towards target a bit, then retrograde again and you'll get close really easy.

Lining up your ports with RCS can be tricky, but there's this One Wierd Trick Rocket Scientists Hate using Mechjeb on both craft to align them. You'll have to google that vid yourself, too, though :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 03, 2014, 07:35:15 am
Quote from: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 03:37:13 am
, but there's this One Wierd Trick Rocket Scientists Hate

I like how you had credibility, and then you said this and suddenly you didn't
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 07:50:51 am
Quote from: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 03:37:13 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 01, 2014, 05:30:16 pm
Wow. Docking is HARD.
I didn't even know how maneuvers worked until right now, and getting the degrees and next encounter lined up is like dancing on a wet frzoen metal pole between to skyscrapers.
This vid (can't find it because browser at work sucks but google for ksp docking without rcs)
Is it this one?

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoXnr1KKKjA)
Quote
Lining up your ports with RCS can be tricky, but there's this One Wierd Trick Rocket Scientists Hate using Mechjeb on both craft to align them. You'll have to google that vid yourself, too, though :)
And how about people who don't have Mechjeb?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 03, 2014, 07:55:46 am
These people should install mechjeb :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 08:55:07 am
Mechjeb is cheating :) Can't check the vid because flash still broken. Basically it meant switching to the other vehicle, select docking port, do "control from here", select other docking port as target, and then use mechjeb autopilot to "stay on target". Do the same for the other vehicle and they will always line up.

Although I did find it doesn't always work for weird shapes or hard to control vehicles, like having RCS thrusters positioned so that translation and rotation can't be done separately, or having too little gyros to be able to turn fast enough.

Quote from: BFEL on March 03, 2014, 07:35:15 am
Quote from: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 03:37:13 am
, but there's this One Wierd Trick Rocket Scientists Hate

I like how you had credibility, and then you said this and suddenly you didn't
That should teach you, taking me seriously...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 10:27:00 am
Lots of real world crafts have autopilots. Other than maintenance some are completely autonomous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 10:41:53 am
Real-life rockets also have lower efficiency and can't use oscillation drives (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnvh08GBOII) at all. It's a trade-off.

And maybe I'm just a purist. Or maybe the MechJeb-filled screenshots I've seen have been rather cluttered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 03, 2014, 10:54:46 am
I use mechjeb extensively (basically everything but takeoff, landing and docking) and I think that saying "just use mechjeb lol" is terrible advice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 10:55:50 am
There are underwater rovers that operate out of a land facility that just go running around on their own.

You can turn mechjeb screens on and off at will. There are a lot of LPers that have Kerbal Engineer taking up permanent screen real estate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 03, 2014, 11:01:58 am
Ugh, building big rockets is hard. I'm building a massive beast that I will probably use to take my prized Chadory Kerman to Duna and back. I've tested the return phase, and it can orbit Kerbin by itself with what I hope will be enough fuel for the atomic engines to take it back.

However, I added what will be the launch phase and the stuff that will get it to Duna, and while I'm confident it'll have enough fuel and that the staging is correct, it falls apart easily. I haven't been able to take the whole thing to LKO yet. I've put an additional 50 space tapes on the bottom asparagusses, but they still fall apart. Everything else is perfectly sturdy. Halp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 11:16:47 am
More struts?

You seem to be falling prey to the Square/Cube Law. Which doesn't help, but now you know what your problem is called!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 11:21:45 am
It all depends on how you put it together and where you space taped. I've seen and used some huge stages and every one used part clipping, right down to taping inline tank stacks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 03, 2014, 11:28:21 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 03, 2014, 10:54:46 am
I use mechjeb extensively (basically everything but takeoff, landing and docking) and I think that saying "just use mechjeb lol" is terrible advice.
I wasn't saying that he should just use mechjeb, just that it has neat features.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Siquo on March 03, 2014, 11:40:58 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 03, 2014, 10:54:46 am
I use mechjeb extensively (basically everything but takeoff, landing and docking) and I think that saying "just use mechjeb lol" is terrible advice.
I don't use it anymore, but I learned a lot while using it. So yes, it's a crutch, but one that can teach you how to walk.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 03, 2014, 11:43:47 am
MechJeb is also fun if you don't care about operating space crafts, and just want to build space stations and mining outposts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 11:45:15 am
Mechjeb is also nice for half hour+ burns. Just walk away. Do something else. Quicksave and come back minutes before it finishes to make sure everything goes as planned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 03:01:14 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 11:45:15 am
Mechjeb is also nice for half hour+ burns. Just walk away. Do something else. Quicksave and come back minutes before it finishes to make sure everything goes as planned.
Sounds good, but when would you need a half-hour burn?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on March 03, 2014, 03:06:53 pm
I take it you never use ion engines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 03, 2014, 03:57:50 pm
GWG hasn't gotten there yet. Just wait until those multi hour burns... I try to avoid those because they are boring!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 03, 2014, 05:30:40 pm
NERVAs can result in them too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 03, 2014, 08:13:43 pm
Oops wrong thread
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 09:52:06 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 03, 2014, 03:06:53 pm
I take it you never use ion engines?
Not successfully!

Quote from: Aseaheru on March 03, 2014, 05:30:40 pm
NERVAs can result in them too.
Please don't acronym. If you do, the abbr key is nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 03, 2014, 09:58:42 pm
I've never been able to pack the desired science into a spacecraft light enough to make ion engines a practical propulsion method. Nuclear engines are efficient enough for me to be content, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 03, 2014, 10:35:19 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 09:52:06 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on March 03, 2014, 03:06:53 pm
I take it you never use ion engines?
Not successfully!

Quote from: Aseaheru on March 03, 2014, 05:30:40 pm
NERVAs can result in them too.
Please don't acronym. If you do, the abbr key is nice.

Nuclear
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 03, 2014, 10:49:09 pm
I figured that out by checking the Wikipedia article. (If I hadn't I would have said so.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 04, 2014, 01:19:56 am
I try not to make heavy nuclear pushers and if I do it's orange tanks with 6+ nuclear each. Long burns suck so much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 10:27:06 am
On that note...I decided to try making an interstellar ion craft.

First, the landing iony part.

(http://i.imgur.com/XYsVv43.png)
By the way, I fully support the development of a radially-mounted ion engine.

Next, a rocket to get it into orbit.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3456/dols.png)

And finally, a cute little booster to hopefully help that stage out.

(http://i.imgur.com/aLlpE2Y.png)

(Because the big white ones are a bit overused.)

The Ion Interplanetary I, or III, is being piloted by one Donlan Kerman. Looking at it on the launch pad...it's smaller than many of my rockets, but I've been told I overengineer, so that's not a bad thing.
It launches well.

(http://i.imgur.com/v65BVkx.png)

Not ten seconds in, the boosters start to overheat, the bars climbing at almost the same rate as the solid-fuel gauges rise. The rocket tilts a bit west (why do they always do that?)
A bit under six thousand meters and thirty seconds, I eject that first stage and go onto the liquid fuel rocket. I promptly correct my courst with a combination of reaction wheel and thrust vectoring, then begin a nice little gravity turn.

Rocket fuel runs out all of a sudden at a bit under 40 kilometers, with the apoapsis a bit under 50. Well, only one solution, really.

(http://i.imgur.com/9BbwasH.png)

Man, those things might not have much thrust, but they sure look cool.

Sadly, drag is slowing me down and lowering my apoapsis faster than my little engine that evidently can't (in a gravity well) can do the opposite. Oh well...

(http://i.imgur.com/HI0V8S3.png)

Those look pretty cool.

(http://i.imgur.com/MPXLpMe.png/img]...and now they are starting to look less cool.[img]http://i.imgur.com/rtwya9Y.png)

Aw.

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5010/9ujf.png)

A picture before splashdown, showing all slow-down systems being nominal.

(http://i.imgur.com/HsmEoI9.png)

A picture after splashdown, showing all systems...um...un-nominal.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4738/bkfs.png)
Huh.

Well, I don't have time to design the IIII right now, but when I do, some notes.

1. Bigger rocket booster.
2. Radial-decoupling solid boosters. (More/Bigger?)
3. Parachutes. More parachutes.
4. Also more ion engines.
5. We're gonna need a bigger lander-can (to put all this crap on).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 11:10:56 am
Quote from: greatorder on March 04, 2014, 10:33:55 am
Ion engines aren't used for landing. Ever. They are only used for probes, really. They produce so little thrust that they'd only be able to land on minmus if they were propelling nothing but themselves.

Stick to nukular/landing engines for landing.
The ion engine wasn't intended to slow the landing. The parachute was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 04, 2014, 11:20:25 am
What were you going to use to land on whatever you were going to land on aside from Kerbin? Can't use parachutes on moons. No atmosphere to slow you down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Yeah, besides, on any planet with atmosphere the ion engine is going to speed you up, rather than slow you down. (Extra gravitational acceleration due to additional mass)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 11:38:03 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Yeah, besides, on any planet with atmosphere the ion engine is going to speed you up, rather than slow you down. (Extra gravitational acceleration due to additional mass)
Galileo would be ashamed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 04, 2014, 11:46:55 am
The big rocket is starting to get better. It doesn't fall apart anymore, but the first atomic engine stage doesn't have enough raw power to retain altitude for long enough to achieve orbit...

At least it flies very nicely before then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 04, 2014, 11:49:01 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 11:38:03 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Yeah, besides, on any planet with atmosphere the ion engine is going to speed you up, rather than slow you down. (Extra gravitational acceleration due to additional mass)
Galileo would be ashamed.

No, no. Air resistance changes things. In a vacuum then density doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on March 04, 2014, 12:28:47 pm
Yeah. Pretty sure Eve and Duna are big enough that any change in the space-crafts mass is over-ridden by the HUGE HONKING PIECE OF ROCK PULLING IT TO IT'S DOOM.

...
*ahem* Carry on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 12:37:21 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on March 04, 2014, 11:20:25 am
What were you going to use to land on whatever you were going to land on aside from Kerbin? Can't use parachutes on moons. No atmosphere to slow you down.
Parachute. (I was going to go for Eve.)

Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 11:38:03 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Yeah, besides, on any planet with atmosphere the ion engine is going to speed you up, rather than slow you down. (Extra gravitational acceleration due to additional mass)
Galileo would be ashamed.
Extra mass means extra force. The ion engine does not get stronger with higher gravity. Hence, the (net) acceleration is higher.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 12:47:53 pm
That wasn't part of the plan, no. But better Eve than a little spacecraft stranded in the middle of nowhere!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 01:21:22 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 04, 2014, 11:49:01 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 11:38:03 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Yeah, besides, on any planet with atmosphere the ion engine is going to speed you up, rather than slow you down. (Extra gravitational acceleration due to additional mass)
Galileo would be ashamed.

No, no. Air resistance changes things. In a vacuum then density doesn't really matter.
Yup, I was going for air resistance. Ion engines have rather high density, and low drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 01:45:59 pm
Except you wrote extra gravitational eccelleration.

I know drag, but what's more is the gravitational force, accelleration being constant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on March 04, 2014, 02:45:51 pm
Wait, I thought the rate of acceleration due to gravity (g, if I remember) was dependent on the gravitational pull of the object. It's been years since I took physics though, so I could be wrong, but isn't that what he was referring to?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 01:45:59 pm
Except you wrote extra gravitational eccelleration.

I know drag, but what's more is the gravitational force, accelleration being constant.
Part of why I like my explanation better.

Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 02:45:51 pm
Wait, I thought the rate of acceleration due to gravity (g, if I remember) was dependent on the gravitational pull of the object. It's been years since I took physics though, so I could be wrong, but isn't that what he was referring to?
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erils on March 04, 2014, 03:18:07 pm
Hope I don't look stupid for asking this but I just haven't read through the whole thread yet and want to know.

Does anyone here have a server set up for the multiplayer mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on March 04, 2014, 03:29:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 01:45:59 pm
Except you wrote extra gravitational eccelleration.

I know drag, but what's more is the gravitational force, accelleration being constant.
Part of why I like my explanation better.

Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 02:45:51 pm
Wait, I thought the rate of acceleration due to gravity (g, if I remember) was dependent on the gravitational pull of the object. It's been years since I took physics though, so I could be wrong, but isn't that what he was referring to?
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.

Oh right, thanks. I need to brush up on my physics. I was thinking of the gravitational constant, but now it occurs to me that that is most likely, uhhh, constant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2014, 04:13:32 pm
Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 03:29:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 01:45:59 pm
Except you wrote extra gravitational eccelleration.

I know drag, but what's more is the gravitational force, accelleration being constant.
Part of why I like my explanation better.

Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 02:45:51 pm
Wait, I thought the rate of acceleration due to gravity (g, if I remember) was dependent on the gravitational pull of the object. It's been years since I took physics though, so I could be wrong, but isn't that what he was referring to?
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.

Oh right, thanks. I need to brush up on my physics. I was thinking of the gravitational constant, but now it occurs to me that that is most likely, uhhh, constant.

related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C5_dOEyAfk)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2014, 05:45:45 pm
Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 03:29:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 04, 2014, 01:45:59 pm
Except you wrote extra gravitational eccelleration.

I know drag, but what's more is the gravitational force, accelleration being constant.
Part of why I like my explanation better.

Quote from: timferius on March 04, 2014, 02:45:51 pm
Wait, I thought the rate of acceleration due to gravity (g, if I remember) was dependent on the gravitational pull of the object. It's been years since I took physics though, so I could be wrong, but isn't that what he was referring to?
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.

Oh right, thanks. I need to brush up on my physics. I was thinking of the gravitational constant, but now it occurs to me that that is most likely, uhhh, constant.

However, the mass is a planet is so much more than the mass of things like rockets and small asteroids that it's simpler to count only the planet's gravity. KSP actually does this, because there's no point in trying to calculate something smaller than what the floating point numbers can handle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 04, 2014, 05:57:31 pm
N-body (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68502-WIP-Principia-N-Body-Gravitation-and-Better-Integrators-for-Kerbal-Space-Program) makes for really interesting trajectories.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on March 04, 2014, 06:38:20 pm
Quote from: Erils on March 04, 2014, 03:18:07 pm
Hope I don't look stupid for asking this but I just haven't read through the whole thread yet and want to know.

Does anyone here have a server set up for the multiplayer mod?

We tried it, but it didn't last long because when we did we couldn't get it to work for long.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 06:52:28 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2014, 05:45:45 pm
However, the mass is a planet is so much more than the mass of things like rockets and small asteroids that it's simpler to count only the planet's gravity. KSP actually does this, because there's no point in trying to calculate something smaller than what the floating point numbers can handle.
Not so much. They just calculate the acceleration directly, rather than the force (which is multiplied by the small object's mass) and then divide by the small object's mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2014, 09:22:08 am
Started a new game with Interstellar, Mission Controller, and Final Frontier (medals for your Kerbals! No longer shall you impotently wonder which Kerbal was first to crash land on the Mun!) Oh and Bio..whatever, plants in space basically.

Anyway, I have this RP in my head about how Jebediah is a young billionaire playboy philanthropist crazy junkyard operator lamenting the lack of Government space programs, so he launches his own with a few boosters strapped to a can, and finding success, manages to get some funding out of the stingy Kerbovernor.
His first mission in the "Maiden I" didn't quite make the 70000 meter mark of the mission parameters, but the science he obtained let the Maiden II succeed!

Right now he is renting his design out to Bob Kerman, a Kerbal willing to pay an exorbitant price (31000 kerblins) to have the experience Jeb just did.

This totally needs to become canon :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 05, 2014, 09:46:07 am
The git version of Biomass is the more interesting one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on March 05, 2014, 10:09:27 am
I just started a campaign with Kethane and KAS, which I still haven't learnt. That biomass mod makes it seem like it would give you more objectives. What exactly does it allow you to do? And are there other mods that give you these kinds of free-form objectives, like setting up a refuelling station on the Mun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 05, 2014, 10:39:02 am
Mission mod straight up gives you stock objectives. RemoteTech2 makes any objective challenging. KAS will likely make your game lock up and/or crash. KAS + RemoteTech pretty much guarantees a lockup under specific but common circumstances. Want to point a dish at another dish in another SOI and then go to that vessel in that other SOI? Lockup. It pretty much defeats the purpose of RemoteTech. KAS is also explodey. The concept and usage is theoretically very cool, but it's horribly unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 05, 2014, 11:24:29 am
I prefer kerbal economy to the mission controller - but mc has better payback for recovered stages (takes parachutes into account for stages spent mid flight, nit just for the landed ones)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on March 05, 2014, 01:55:28 pm
KAS being that unstable is not good... :( Is it possible to just remove it and keep the campaign going? I just wanted the ability to do repairs, like when I forget the stupid solar panels :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 05, 2014, 03:41:47 pm
Repairs and stuff sound nice.

EDIT: What never to do. (http://youtu.be/2sToKrr-sSw?t=8m)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 05, 2014, 03:58:21 pm
With most iffy mods I put their parts onto dockable craft so I can undock them and carry on without losing an entire craft. Remove mods and the whole craft with those parts will be deleted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 05, 2014, 10:20:19 pm
If you want to come back, Minmus is probably easier. Nowhere near as much fuel needed to lift off. (Heck, you could probably get home with an EVA pack. In theory.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 05, 2014, 10:48:27 pm
Sadly, if you used an EVA pack to get home, your kerbal would smack into the ground and die for lack of parachute. There was a mod for giving kerbals parachutes though, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 05, 2014, 10:51:23 pm
There sure is. That's how Scott sent a kerbal home from Gilly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on March 05, 2014, 10:57:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.
The acceleration of something due to gravity doesn't change as you change its own mass*, hence why at sea level on Earth acceleration due to gravity is always ~9.8m/s2, whether you are skinny, fat, or a bus. So yes, adding an ion engine will slow you down a little (but it's still not suitable for landing softly).

*The force does change, but since force increases proportionally to the mass of the object and the acceleration due to force decreases proportionally to mass at the same rate it cancels out, leaving the same acceleration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 06, 2014, 03:02:49 am
lotsa confusion here, time for explaining.

gravity force depends on your mass, say: forceg = constant * mass

gravity acceleration, on the other hand, follow the acceleration rule: acceleration = force / mass

so accelerationg = constant * mass / mass = constant

acceleration is constant

what happens when you add mass? to the force of gravity: it increase. to the acceleration: it stay the same.


why does terminal velocity increase?


because air drag is a force. terminal velocity happens when forceg = forcedrag

at that point acceleration = (forceg - forcedrag)/mass = 0, terminal velocity = no acceleration (assuming you are falling straight down here)

for a bus, forceg is very big even if acceleration doesn't change. for a person, forceg is smaller, even if the acceleration without drag stay the same.

but!

98kg person: acceleration = (98 - forcedrag)/10

980kg bike:  acceleration = (980 - forcedrag) / 980

see what's going on? you need much more drag to reach terminal velocity with a massive object

that mean you have to go faster to cancel out the force of gravity.

so, the more massive you are, the bigger you terminal velocity will be - no change in gravity constant neither in the acceleration by the force of gravity.

it's simpler: you need more force to slow you down and the force here is drag which depends on speed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on March 06, 2014, 04:18:38 am
Keep in mind, though, that that the larger the object is, the greater the drag because there's more surface area for the air to cling to, which can be yet another variable that causes a difference in terminal velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 06, 2014, 05:46:24 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on March 06, 2014, 04:18:38 am
Keep in mind, though, that that the larger the object is, the greater the drag because there's more surface area for the air to cling to, which can be yet another variable that causes a difference in terminal velocity.

But not in KSP.
In KSP drag and size is not related at all. In fact all fuel tanks, no matter the size, has the same drag.
Ion drives have the same mass and drag as an empty FL-T400 fuel tank. While an FL-T800 has twice the mass and the same drag.

So depending on your current ship's mass/drag ration, the ion engine will either slow you down, or make you speed up.


Quote
it's simpler: you need more force to slow you down and the force here is drag which depends on speed.

It depends on speed AND drag-coefficient
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on March 06, 2014, 10:06:09 am
If you're going off the 'drag' number in the parts list, that's not entirely accurate. An orange tank and a tiny puddle-jumper tank both have the same drag per surface area, but even the base game bothers to actually care about that surface area. With a mod focused on making aerodynamics more realistic, like FAR, you can notice an even greater difference.

Of course, I haven't played in a while, so I might be wrong for lack of newer developments, but I don't think the game's creators would backtrack like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 06, 2014, 11:27:53 am
Quote from: Mini on March 05, 2014, 10:57:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.
The acceleration of something due to gravity doesn't change as you change its own mass*, hence why at sea level on Earth acceleration due to gravity is always ~9.8m/s2, whether you are skinny, fat, or a bus. So yes, adding an ion engine will slow you down a little (but it's still not suitable for landing softly).
*The force does change, but since force increases proportionally to the mass of the object and the acceleration due to force decreases proportionally to mass at the same rate it cancels out, leaving the same acceleration.
I meant force, my bad. Of course, technically acceleration depends on those things too. After all, increasing the mass of the smaller object means that the larger object is moving towards the smaller object a little faster, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on March 06, 2014, 12:03:54 pm
Negligibly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 06, 2014, 12:34:26 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 06, 2014, 11:27:53 am
Quote from: Mini on March 05, 2014, 10:57:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 04, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Acceleration due to gravity depends on the mass of each object, the (square of the) distance between them, and the gravitational constant.
The acceleration of something due to gravity doesn't change as you change its own mass*, hence why at sea level on Earth acceleration due to gravity is always ~9.8m/s2, whether you are skinny, fat, or a bus. So yes, adding an ion engine will slow you down a little (but it's still not suitable for landing softly).
*The force does change, but since force increases proportionally to the mass of the object and the acceleration due to force decreases proportionally to mass at the same rate it cancels out, leaving the same acceleration.
I meant force, my bad. Of course, technically acceleration depends on those things too. After all, increasing the mass of the smaller object means that the larger object is moving towards the smaller object a little faster, doesn't it?

No.

The force is bigger, but has to accellerate more mass so it evens out
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 06, 2014, 01:11:15 pm
Duna Expedition Thing continues to progress. I did my orbit-completing burn way too late, and ended up wasting a ton of fuel. Still, the thing managed to get to Duna, though I was forced to give up after that because I was unable to land properly due to the fact that I had forgotten landing legs. At least I got a taste of what the thing can do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 06, 2014, 02:09:16 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 06, 2014, 12:34:26 pm
No.

The force is bigger, but has to accellerate more mass so it evens out
There are two equal forces: The force of object a on object b, and the force of object b on object a. I was talking about the second. If b is twice as massive as a previous b, the acceleration from the first force will be the same, but the acceleration from the second will not be.

Read carefully to figure out what I'm actually saying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 06, 2014, 02:20:43 pm
Also, I forgot to mention before, there's a pretty decent spaceplane that I've had for a long time. It's lightweight, has 2 stages, the first of which has 6 turbojet engines, and the 2nd with a single toroidal aerospike rocket. It can go really far, and with proper vertical landing skills it can visit Minmus really easily. I've done an Eve flyby, too. The only downside is that it needs to be refueled before it can leave.

This is why I designed an orbital refueling rocket for use especially with it. It has much more juice than what's needed to completely fill the plane, so you can be pretty generous with it during rendezvous.

The only real reason I'm saying this is because I was wondering, would anyone want to have the .CRAFT files and/or pictures for educational porpoises?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 06, 2014, 02:27:26 pm
After finally getting some beamed thermal infrastructure in Interstellar the beginning's of plasma craft using vacuum as a "fuel" has begun. Plasma engine + thermal receiver + electric engine = craft. That's it. You're effectively bathing your craft in fuel and turning heat into electricity to use that fuel as long as you have not a lick of atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 06, 2014, 03:10:39 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on March 06, 2014, 02:20:43 pm
The only real reason I'm saying this is because I was wondering, would anyone want to have the .CRAFT files and/or pictures for educational porpoises?
Might be interesting. I'd also be interested in knowing how to upload .CRAFT files.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 06, 2014, 03:40:28 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on March 06, 2014, 10:06:09 am
If you're going off the 'drag' number in the parts list, that's not entirely accurate. An orange tank and a tiny puddle-jumper tank both have the same drag per surface area, but even the base game bothers to actually care about that surface area. With a mod focused on making aerodynamics more realistic, like FAR, you can notice an even greater difference.

Of course, I haven't played in a while, so I might be wrong for lack of newer developments, but I don't think the game's creators would backtrack like that.

My main gaming PC is on the fritz, but maybe someone can launch test this by launching two identical crafts, with the only difference being one has 2 tanks of half length and the other with 1 tank with double length.

According to you they should go to the same height, according to me, the single tank one will go higher.

TEST PREASE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2014, 03:48:45 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 06, 2014, 03:11:23 pm
Best part: This made it back to Kerbin!
However, the science part was torn off when parachutes deployed a couple hundred meters. I was glum the last 20 seconds of landing, until the pod touched the ground and I found out that through some miracle, the engines, fuel and landing struts where torn out and blown up violently, but the science modules were alive! :D :D :D
Just went to the Tracking Station, and all the Science came back to me.

This was a triumph~ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI)

Just so you know, when you're in space you can have your Kerbal grab the science out of experiments and put it in the pod. That way you don't have to worry when it gets all splodey.

Also "Scenic Background Crater" would be a good name for a band :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Helgoland on March 06, 2014, 04:36:03 pm
Make it a plural and you've got a record deal.
"Scenic Background Craters"
scenicbackgroundcraters.tumblr.com
"All New LP: The Moons Of Jupiter"

Yup, it works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Theodolus on March 06, 2014, 06:28:40 pm
Quote from: ank on March 06, 2014, 03:40:28 pm
My main gaming PC is on the fritz, but maybe someone can launch test this by launching two identical crafts, with the only difference being one has 2 tanks of half length and the other with 1 tank with double length.

According to you they should go to the same height, according to me, the single tank one will go higher.

TEST PREASE!

!Science! (With a disturbing lack of fiery deaths and explosions. Oh well.)

Code: [Select]
         | Rocket 1    Rocket 2    Rocket 3   Rocket 4 |
         | --------    --------    --------   -------- |
   Tank  | FLT 100x8 | FLT 200x4 | FLT400x2 | FLT800x1 |
   Fuel  |    360    |    360    |   360    |   360    |
Fuel Mass|   1.76    |    1.8    |   1.8    |   1.8    |
 Oxidizer|    440    |    440    |   440    |   440    |
 Oxy Mass|   2.16    |    2.2    |   2.2    |   2.2    |
   Mass  |    4.5    |    4.5    |   4.5    |   4.5    |
   Drag  |    1.6    |    0.8    |   0.4    |   0.2    |
         |-----------|-----------|----------|----------|
(Mass and drag do not include the common parts values)

Common Parts
Inline Reaction Wheel, Command Pod Mk1, LV-T30 Engine

Method
Throttle to full on the launchpad. Turn on SAS. Hands off for the rest of the flight.

Code: [Select]
Apoapsis (Test 1 / Test 2)
--------------------------
Rocket 1: 92,684 / 92,678|
Rocket 2: 92,663 / 92,658|
Rocket 3: 92,590 / 92,584|
Rocket 4: 92,565 / 92,558|
--------------------------
No time dialation was used during the test to ensure that the physics engine didn't start estimating and getting the margins wrong.

Thoughts
Rocket 3 and 4 seemed to run out of fuel at roughly the same time, but I would peg 4 as running out just a bit sooner. This is coroborated by the slightly lower apoapsis. I believe that the main reason why the smaller tanks lifted higher is because of a slightly larger volume.

I'm not sure what the empty mass of each of the containers is either. The FLT 100 cycled through each container pretty quickly. If an empty container ends up not having as much mass that may account for this side effect: Rocket 1 accelerated much faster than the other three. It displayed the atmospheric burn animation for much longer than any of the other rockets. 2 and 3 both displayed it, but at a smaller intensity and for a much shorter period of time. 4 did not display the burn animation at all. I wasn't, however, tracking maximum velocity during the tests, so this is a bit theoretical and may be attributed to the total drag.

I originally tracked the fuel exhaustion altitude, but it was pretty much the same for all 4 rockets. Possibly some small variances, but nothing of serious note as far as I could tell.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2014, 07:03:12 pm
Next up in
Spoiler: ADVENTURES IN WHAT NOT TO DO! (click to show/hide)


((The mission was actually a success, the capsule had all the science and was detached/safe, but the image of what was left was just comedy gold))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 06, 2014, 07:48:31 pm
Here ya go. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUQXqG_edKQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 06, 2014, 08:32:31 pm
Quote from: ank on March 06, 2014, 03:40:28 pm
My main gaming PC is on the fritz, but maybe someone can launch test this by launching two identical crafts, with the only difference being one has 2 tanks of half length and the other with 1 tank with double length.

According to you they should go to the same height, according to me, the single tank one will go higher.

TEST PREASE!
Actually, they would both end with the double-tanker going higher, because the surface area of the two cylinders is longer because it has twice as many circles.
Degree should be pretty clear, though.

Quote from: Cmega3 on March 06, 2014, 07:45:01 pm
I got the basic spaceplane parts, but sadly I cannot seem to make one.
Helps?
1. Go to hangar.
2. Slap together parts that look like a plane.
3. Crash plane. Return to 2.

Actually, I had some success with planes towards the beginning. Never spaced one, though, but I imagine it's "just" a matter of getting it to fast speeds, then launching kinda like a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 06, 2014, 08:52:34 pm
I've just started messing with spaceplanes. Usually, you're trying to get above 10km as fast as you can, and then you aim as close to the horizon as possible while still climbing. If you're using more than 1 airbreathing engine, make sure to turn them off once your air gets too low to avoid spinning.

Also, make sure your center of mass is ahead of your center of lift to make liftoff easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 06, 2014, 09:43:38 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 06, 2014, 08:52:34 pm
I've just started messing with spaceplanes. Usually, you're trying to get above 10km as fast as you can, and then you aim as close to the horizon as possible while still climbing. If you're using more than 1 airbreathing engine, make sure to turn them off once your air gets too low to avoid spinning.

Also, make sure your center of mass is ahead of your center of lift to make liftoff easier.
I've actually found it better to slowly climb to about 15,000 meters.   Then I alternate between my jet engines and rocket engines to gain speed, until I finally switch to just rocket engines at about 22,000 meters.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 06, 2014, 11:21:46 pm
Even if I turn my plasma engine thrust way down it's still too powerful to land on the Mun. A single 1.25m vacuum plasma engine is OP. :/ Or the 60GW of power is OP. Time to switch to a smaller engine and stop smearing Kerbals across the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 07, 2014, 11:39:08 am
Quote from: Theodolus on March 06, 2014, 06:28:40 pm
Quote from: ank on March 06, 2014, 03:40:28 pm
My main gaming PC is on the fritz, but maybe someone can launch test this by launching two identical crafts, with the only difference being one has 2 tanks of half length and the other with 1 tank with double length.

According to you they should go to the same height, according to me, the single tank one will go higher.

TEST PREASE!

!Science! (With a disturbing lack of fiery deaths and explosions. Oh well.)

Code: [Select]
         | Rocket 1    Rocket 2    Rocket 3   Rocket 4 |
         | --------    --------    --------   -------- |
   Tank  | FLT 100x8 | FLT 200x4 | FLT400x2 | FLT800x1 |
   Fuel  |    360    |    360    |   360    |   360    |
Fuel Mass|   1.76    |    1.8    |   1.8    |   1.8    |
 Oxidizer|    440    |    440    |   440    |   440    |
 Oxy Mass|   2.16    |    2.2    |   2.2    |   2.2    |
   Mass  |    4.5    |    4.5    |   4.5    |   4.5    |
   Drag  |    1.6    |    0.8    |   0.4    |   0.2    |
         |-----------|-----------|----------|----------|
(Mass and drag do not include the common parts values)

Common Parts
Inline Reaction Wheel, Command Pod Mk1, LV-T30 Engine

Method
Throttle to full on the launchpad. Turn on SAS. Hands off for the rest of the flight.

Code: [Select]
Apoapsis (Test 1 / Test 2)
--------------------------
Rocket 1: 92,684 / 92,678|
Rocket 2: 92,663 / 92,658|
Rocket 3: 92,590 / 92,584|
Rocket 4: 92,565 / 92,558|
--------------------------
No time dialation was used during the test to ensure that the physics engine didn't start estimating and getting the margins wrong.

Thoughts
Rocket 3 and 4 seemed to run out of fuel at roughly the same time, but I would peg 4 as running out just a bit sooner. This is coroborated by the slightly lower apoapsis. I believe that the main reason why the smaller tanks lifted higher is because of a slightly larger volume.

I'm not sure what the empty mass of each of the containers is either. The FLT 100 cycled through each container pretty quickly. If an empty container ends up not having as much mass that may account for this side effect: Rocket 1 accelerated much faster than the other three. It displayed the atmospheric burn animation for much longer than any of the other rockets. 2 and 3 both displayed it, but at a smaller intensity and for a much shorter period of time. 4 did not display the burn animation at all. I wasn't, however, tracking maximum velocity during the tests, so this is a bit theoretical and may be attributed to the total drag.

I originally tracked the fuel exhaustion altitude, but it was pretty much the same for all 4 rockets. Possibly some small variances, but nothing of serious note as far as I could tell.

Thanks buddy! Good test!
You have pretty much proven that just adding drag on parts is not the way to figure drag.
I honestly thought this was how it worked.

The test shows conclusively that there is no difference between the setups.
I am chalking the lower apo on rocket 4 up to rounding errors in the game.

Now, how to take this further? what is drag actually dependent on?
Is it the drag numbers on all parts not in the shadow? Or is it looking at the front area?

Time to put some tanks next to each other!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on March 07, 2014, 12:21:12 pm
I believe drag is calculated through the exact same ray casting algorithm that re-entry effects use - if a part is blocked by another from the direction you're headed, it's drag is 0. Partially block, partial drag... Hmm, though I think technically that means multiple tanks would be slower - even if in-line with each other - if oriented SIDEWAYS instead of vertically. Though, uh, that's a bit harder to test admittedly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No drag is purely additive unless you get the FAR mod
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 07, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 06, 2014, 11:21:46 pm
Even if I turn my plasma engine thrust way down it's still too powerful to land on the Mun. A single 1.25m vacuum plasma engine is OP. :/ Or the 60GW of power is OP. Time to switch to a smaller engine and stop smearing Kerbals across the Mun.
Vacuum plasma?

Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No drag is purely additive unless you get the FAR mod
Is there a comma missing in there or...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Johuotar on March 07, 2014, 01:50:11 pm
In career with just the first research researched, how can I stop my parachutes from breaking when I use them. I tried using it as fast as possible (5000), but it still detached.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 07, 2014, 01:51:07 pm
Use more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 07, 2014, 01:54:14 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 07, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 06, 2014, 11:21:46 pm
Even if I turn my plasma engine thrust way down it's still too powerful to land on the Mun. A single 1.25m vacuum plasma engine is OP. :/ Or the 60GW of power is OP. Time to switch to a smaller engine and stop smearing Kerbals across the Mun.
Vacuum plasma?

It's from a mod that makes real world Earth theoretical designs a thing of the Kerbin present. Vacuum and electricity are effectively used as a fuel source.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 07, 2014, 01:59:29 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 07, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No drag is purely additive unless you get the FAR mod
Is there a comma missing in there or...?

No, there isn't. Add a period on the end and it's perfectly valid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on March 07, 2014, 02:15:18 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 07, 2014, 01:59:29 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 07, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No drag is purely additive unless you get the FAR mod
Is there a comma missing in there or...?

No, there isn't. Add a period on the end and it's perfectly valid.

Actually, I think he's right. In fact, your sentence above is the perfect example! It should most likely be "No, drag...." instead of "No drag". The first states that drag is purely additive, where as the second states that non of the drag is additive. Commas are important!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 07, 2014, 03:00:50 pm
Quote from: timferius on March 07, 2014, 02:15:18 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 07, 2014, 01:59:29 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 07, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No drag is purely additive unless you get the FAR mod
Is there a comma missing in there or...?

No, there isn't. Add a period on the end and it's perfectly valid.

Actually, I think he's right. In fact, your sentence above is the perfect example! It should most likely be "No, drag...." instead of "No drag". The first states that drag is purely additive, where as the second states that non of the drag is additive. Commas are important!

(http://www.edudemic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/commas-save-lives.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 07, 2014, 04:39:00 pm
Perspective in that last picture almost had me thinking the ship was some sort of miniature toy rocket, or you sent a really, really big kerbal. :v
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 07, 2014, 04:42:05 pm
Same here...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 07, 2014, 04:46:13 pm
I just watched the Mun eclipse the sun from Kerbin orbit. Wow. I think that's a first for me and I've been playing since release when the game was $8.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on March 07, 2014, 05:35:21 pm
I need some help finding some mod that gives you some sort of super engine that can be used all by itself to send a ship to space and back, its obviously not realistic and I only need it because I want to build a Star wars like one man fighter ship, help please?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 07, 2014, 05:53:09 pm
For that, I would just edit ion engines myself. The raws are really simple; it shouldn't take you long to find the ion engine, copy it, and change some stuff around to make a new, overpowered engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 07, 2014, 05:58:55 pm
Hyperedit will just put a ship anywhere in the Kerbol system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 07:25:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

actually, it needed a colon. if you want to be pedantic, do it right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 07, 2014, 08:21:56 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
No, drag, is, purely, additive, unless, you, get, the, FAR, mod,
And to elaborate on this, I'm pretty sure it's actually a big part of why you experience waaay less drag in FAR than default.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 08, 2014, 11:40:30 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 07, 2014, 07:25:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

actually, it needed a colon. if you want to be pedantic, do it right.

Not to restart the grammar war, but WHAT!?
A colon?! you must be crazy!
you want it to be "No: drag..."?
That's not what colons are used for.

It's could be a semicolon, but I don't believe in those.
Or a period could be used too. (yes I know you can't start a sentence with a conjunction)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 08, 2014, 11:43:01 am
Shut up and post ships! RAWR!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 08, 2014, 12:32:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 08, 2014, 11:43:01 am
Shut up and post ships! RAWR!

Point taken
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 08, 2014, 01:54:30 pm
Quote from: ank on March 08, 2014, 12:32:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 08, 2014, 11:43:01 am
Shut up and post ships! RAWR!

Point taken
Code: [Select]
         __(')__
   (')-//__l|l__\\
      \O_\/lol\/_O__
      /O`. [ ]  ;O_L\
     _\__\_[ ]_/__/_/
    /'l   l H l   l'\
   /_\l___l_H_l___l/_\
  /       /_H_\       \
_/_       *_|_*       _\_
          *****
      .....***.....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 08, 2014, 01:59:54 pm
Your rover will go in circles, is very top heavy, and those wheels have no real traction. If you want the lander and rover separate then have them decouple.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 08, 2014, 02:11:31 pm
With very fiddly flying, you could land a (from bottom to top) rover, base, landing engine unit. You just detach the rover ultra close to the surface and then hover and let the Mun rotate under you until you're clear of the rover. Or you make your base with a dock on bottom and give just enough clearance to drive the rover out. I've made a base/lander that had a rover underneath. The base kneeled (with legs) to catch the rover with its dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on March 08, 2014, 06:21:22 pm
I'm developing some parts for KSP mods, mainly extraplanetary launchpads. Here's the 3m-wide workshop I developed. I am seeking people to collab on texturing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 09, 2014, 01:03:31 am
Trying my hand at spacing,
It seems the engineers forgot to install one panel.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh dear, there goes the K2/O2 tank, and 267 RTGs.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Off to deep space for our intrepid 18 (plus bob bill)
The very cream of the stupidest that kerbin could provide (and bob bill)
I should probably rescue bob bill.
The next one needs 3 times as many panels, also I'll launch it without hacking gravity, and some struts might help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 09, 2014, 08:16:47 am
NASA development meeting:
"The new systems are looking great, now we just need to make them work without hacking gravity!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 09, 2014, 08:28:42 am
Well I needed to see how it looked in space before designing a rocket to take it there, thats the most important thing!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 09, 2014, 09:56:23 am
Each of those ion clusters will need all of those solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 09, 2014, 01:58:02 pm
I've heard that one Gigantor solar panel per ion engine is plenty sufficient, if you're not too far from the Sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 09, 2014, 02:05:35 pm
You need about two panels for one engine out by the Jool cluster of targets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 09, 2014, 05:15:29 pm
So the general consensus is to construct a ship entirely out of solar panels, correct?


Also:
Quote from: Djohaal on March 08, 2014, 06:21:22 pm
I'm developing some parts for KSP mods, mainly extraplanetary launchpads. Here's the 3m-wide workshop I developed. I am seeking people to collab on texturing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I REALLY wish I knew how to make that mod work :P
I also wish I had skillz what could help you in a meaningful way :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 09, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
Alternatively, you could construct your ion probe entirely out of batteries, and provide only minimal power generation facilities. You'll just have to operate it in very short bursts. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 09, 2014, 05:42:03 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on March 09, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
Alternatively, you could construct your ion probe entirely out of batteries, and provide only minimal power generation facilities. You'll just have to operate it in very short bursts. :P

That should work flawlessly for those hour long burns.
NOT
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 09, 2014, 06:44:25 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on March 09, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
Alternatively, you could construct your ion probe entirely out of batteries, and provide only minimal power generation facilities. You'll just have to operate it in very short bursts. :P
More practical would be a nuclear reactor or several.

Quote from: Cmega3 on March 09, 2014, 06:12:30 pm
Now, I need a creative name for it.
Mycroft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 09, 2014, 07:17:12 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 09, 2014, 05:42:03 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on March 09, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
Alternatively, you could construct your ion probe entirely out of batteries, and provide only minimal power generation facilities. You'll just have to operate it in very short bursts. :P
That should work flawlessly for those hour long burns.
NOT
Quote from: Eric Blank on March 09, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
:P
Why so serious?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 10, 2014, 07:56:51 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 09, 2014, 09:58:43 pm
Fun fact: That rover has more energy storage than the entire MunBase.

Solution: Construct a MunBase entirely out of rovers.

LAY THEM END TO END UNTIL THEY WRAP AROUND THE MUN, THEN LAUNCH IT INTO SPACE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 10, 2014, 09:31:56 am
Would fail for the same reason space elevator fails: physics limited to 2.1km sphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 10, 2014, 12:37:08 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 10, 2014, 09:31:56 am
Would fail for the same reason space elevator fails: physics limited to 2.1km sphere.

Crap...well that might be enough to make a crater full of rovers right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 10, 2014, 03:56:00 pm
Quote from: BFEL on March 10, 2014, 12:37:08 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 10, 2014, 09:31:56 am
Would fail for the same reason space elevator fails: physics limited to 2.1km sphere.

Crap...well that might be enough to make a crater full of rovers right?
A couple kilometers is not that far in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 10, 2014, 06:34:52 pm
Perhaps, at the very least, you could have a rover train?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 10, 2014, 06:35:57 pm
Turning would be scary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 10, 2014, 07:06:15 pm
Turning at speed is always scary. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 10, 2014, 09:39:35 pm
I meant turning. At all. Too many things could go so terribly wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 11, 2014, 01:53:19 am
I'm thinking that it might be less prone to flipping, if it's just big enough  8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 11, 2014, 01:11:01 pm
monoraaail
monoraaaaaaaaail
monorail!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXS01JiuJ7k
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 11, 2014, 03:02:10 pm
It has to be said...

"Mono...d'oh!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on March 11, 2014, 05:02:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olcAaDskOLQ

This guy is hilarious!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on March 11, 2014, 06:01:01 pm
I have begun a new rescue lander pileup on the Mun. This is going to be fun to try and fix.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 11, 2014, 06:51:50 pm
Quote from: Lt_Alfred on March 11, 2014, 05:02:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olcAaDskOLQ

This guy is hilarious!
He is really great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 11, 2014, 09:19:54 pm
Quote from: Lt_Alfred on March 11, 2014, 05:02:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olcAaDskOLQ

This guy is hilarious!
If only I could get video for my KSP LP...then I could maybe make something that funny instead of as funny as I made it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 12, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Munar Return Cannon (way to get to the Mun not included) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q)

Can we make this practical less impractical, perhaps so much so that they can be used to propel (small) packages from the Kerbin surface?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 12, 2014, 08:33:55 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 12, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Munar Return Cannon (way to get to the Mun not included) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q)

Can we make this practical less impractical, perhaps so much so that they can be used to propel (small) packages from the Kerbin surface?
Very dwarfy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 12, 2014, 10:14:31 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on March 12, 2014, 09:46:51 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on March 12, 2014, 08:33:55 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 12, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Munar Return Cannon (way to get to the Mun not included) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q)

Can we make this practical less impractical, perhaps so much so that they can be used to propel (small) packages from the Kerbin surface?
Very dwarfy.
One cannot help but wonder how he got that to the Mün.
One is certain that it involved hax.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 12, 2014, 10:56:29 pm
Speaking of the Mun, I have claimed it in the name of facepunching the solar system. Minmus and Mun down. Heavier rocketry purchased. It's time to facepunch other worlds.
Spoiler: Mun! (click to show/hide)

Also, I have enough science to purchase one more thing. What should I get, oh sage ones?
Spoiler: Tech tree (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 13, 2014, 01:08:19 am
I finally designed my first rocket capable of putting an entire orange tank into orbit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
All it takes is a first stage with 7 oranges and 6 rockomax 8's, one mainsail and 6 skippers, then a second stage with 2 oranges a rockomax 8 and a mainsail, and a shitload of struts so the first stage doesnt push right through the second at around the point where it reaches 150-200 meters per second.
Gravity turn 40 degrees at 10 km shortly before first stage seperation, being VERY careful to not make the rocket unstable for ejection of the second stage, which lacks enough RCS to recover from a severe tumble, then when apoapsis hits 45 kilometers apoapsis reduce thrust to bare minimum needed to maintain it, wait untill rocket catches up with apoapsis, tilt full 90 degrees and burn whats left of the second stage, should achieve a 200 kilometer apoapsis and 60 kilometer peripapsis. (or a circular orbit if i'm more careful).
Edit:
I need to put more solar panels on my probes, there isn't enough energy to power the reaction wheel, so battery stays at empty and i can't restart the engines.
Edit 2: Nope actually, that small panel supplier 45 power a minute and my reaction wheel and probe core only require 20.8 per minute, I wonder why the battery isn't recharging.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on March 13, 2014, 01:12:21 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 12, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Munar Return Cannon (way to get to the Mun not included) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q)

Can we make this practical less impractical, perhaps so much so that they can be used to propel (small) packages from the Kerbin surface?
This series has just made my day, it's hilarious! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 13, 2014, 03:17:41 am
I'm starting to think that I've figured out this probe thing. Pictured: A pretty close flyby of the Sun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on March 13, 2014, 05:14:41 am
Quote from: MaximumZero on March 13, 2014, 03:17:41 am
I'm starting to think that I've figured out this probe thing. Pictured: A pretty close flyby of the Sun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well i hope it was a one way trip...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 13, 2014, 09:03:03 am
When in doubt get science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 13, 2014, 08:56:25 pm
So I threw Jeb up into orbit in the "Attache I" to prepare for our first docking maneuver (mandated by Mission Controller)

The mission is simple: Dock two spacecraft together and then land. So I went and made a pretty minimalist dock/return capsule that could easily fit in a halfsize Rockomax tank.

Got Jeb into orbit, know what I forgot? RCS thrusters.

No docking for Jeb today :P

FAKEEDIT: Just realized I could have launched another craft with RCS up anyway and used *its* RCS to dock, but too late now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 13, 2014, 09:41:48 pm
Quote from: i2amroy on March 13, 2014, 01:12:21 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 12, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Munar Return Cannon (way to get to the Mun not included) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRcetShcw8Q)

Can we make this practical less impractical, perhaps so much so that they can be used to propel (small) packages from the Kerbin surface?
This series has just made my day, it's hilarious! :D

I've watched this man's videos for a couple of months, and they are indeed hilarious.

In other news, I messed with the firespitter mod today. I feel like it's a WW2 era version of B9, and it's just as sexy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 13, 2014, 10:17:14 pm
Update on the "Attache" docking incident:

So I redid Jebs orbital insertion in a craft that actually worked as intended and then sent BILNAND KERMAN (a recent, and currently the only, graduate of Kerbal academy) up to do the rendezvous.

Spoiler: Best. Docking. Ever. (click to show/hide)

As you can see, there were some complications. I found that adjusting to the RCS piloting wasn't happening, so mostly I just got them semi-lined up and then used the engine to drive under the other ship, with the backwards thrusters (the only ones that I seem to have mastered) as my quick means of slowing this mess down.

As you can ALSO see, I decided to take BOTH crafts through the atmosphere WHILE DOCKED.
Did it work? Well....

Spoiler: Yes and No (click to show/hide)

Luckily that's not too big of a problem, and the mission completed anyway!
Spoiler: Mission Accomplish (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 13, 2014, 10:46:11 pm
Wow, payouts got upped. Good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 13, 2014, 11:43:09 pm
What mod is that?

Also:
Spoiler: Bye bye, Kerbin! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wheee! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 500 Billion meters above the Sun (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 14, 2014, 08:15:46 am
Danny's cannons sound like fun.

(http://i.imgur.com/sg348m2.jpg)

It takes a very special kind of kerbal to test something like this, but we have one up to the task!

(http://i.imgur.com/KFxETOU.png)

It explodes. Lengan is okay, though!

A redesign adds more LSEs (three along the bottom, including one right behind it). That one explodes, too. I note that the problem seems to be coming from the Mainsail detaching itself from the Radial Attachment Point. Solution: Add a Rockomax Adaptor in between, and attach two LSEs to that.
It does not explode! Moreover, Jebediah (wait, I thought I sent the other guy...) gets an excellent flight...

(http://i57.tinypic.com/9toffs.png)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/14e9f1f.png)

He gets nearly five kilometers away from the cannon before splashing down. I call that a partial success! Next step: How much would it take to launch something with such a cannon?
Let's start with a small projectile the expendable than a kerbonaut. Pretty expendable, then.

(http://i.imgur.com/YNjNwfy.png)

Looks good.

That probe made it about as high as Jeb did, but only got a couple kilometers away and it glid back to about 1.6 kilometers away before crashing. I'll stick to kerbonauts, I guess. Now, how to orbit them?

Quote from: MaximumZero on March 13, 2014, 11:43:09 pm
Spoiler: 500 Billion meters above Kerbin (click to show/hide)
Five billion meters from the Sun, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on March 14, 2014, 08:36:04 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 14, 2014, 08:15:46 am
Five billion meters from the Sun, actually.
Yup. Realized that as I was falling asleep last night. Fixed now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on March 15, 2014, 04:40:21 pm
Been playing Better Than Starting Manned (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61632) mod. It's a nice take on hardmode for KSP. It's supposed to be played with Deadly Reentry (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/54954). Because if you're going to make something hard you'd best make it flaming explosion of death hard.

Science transmitting is changed so that you only need to transmit once to get 100% but Goo has to be brought back to get science from it. The science from Kerbin's ground/sea is removed. The science parts are put towards the beginning (thermometer is unlocked at very start).

Kerbals need life support and you have to research up to pressurized cockpits. Even then they use up their life support quickly and can only spend a couple of hours in space.

Batteries, engines, and solar panels start out terrible and get better as they're farther researched.

This makes it so you're constantly starved for parts that do what you want.

Here's my current research tree.
(http://i.imgur.com/kdJnPSVs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/kdJnPSV.png)
I still don't have side parachutes or anything to hook the top mounted parachute to the side of something with.


Here's my decoupler
(http://i.imgur.com/N5cnaU3s.png) (http://i.imgur.com/N5cnaU3.png)
That's the first decoupler this mod lets you have. That's the only decoupler I can work with so far.

Here's the first SAS
(http://i.imgur.com/N5cnaU3s.png) (http://i.imgur.com/N5cnaU3.png)

That's 4th level tech for a decoupler and 5th for SAS. I still don't have the first solar panel.
(http://i.imgur.com/uF1pmLVs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/uF1pmLV.png)
They weigh a half tonne each and it would take 3 of them getting constant sun to keep my probe cores charged.


The part starvation has lead to some rather insane designs.
(http://i.imgur.com/3SwCic5s.png) (http://i.imgur.com/3SwCic5.png)
That's how I got the goo back from space safely.

I'm proud of this bottom booster's design.
(http://i.imgur.com/DBKIIrPs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/DBKIIrP.png)
No decouplers, it drops stages by overheating and blowing up the lower stage. It gets going fast enough to overheat the top boosters around 20km. The batteries on top of the solid boosters are to protect them from heat.

Deadly Reentry has heat shields (that have to be researched) but I found that the Modular Girder Adapter does a pretty good job of protecting things.
(http://i.imgur.com/2LQDA3Xs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/2LQDA3X.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0LrDslRs.png) (http://http://i.imgur.com/0LrDslR.png)

No fuel ducts, no struts. It can get into Kerbin orbit or direct ascent to Mun.
(http://i.imgur.com/f8WPoNOs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/f8WPoNO.png)
Still can't get a Kerbol there alive though, not enough life support for the whole trip. Probe's doing pretty good though. Having some trouble finishing up the gravity scans since some of the biomes pop up for less than 1 second before changing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 04:41:00 pm
I don't think we should bring up FlowerChild or anything he makes around here >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 15, 2014, 04:55:13 pm
fuck that guy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 15, 2014, 05:14:35 pm
Agreed. The end. Moving on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 15, 2014, 05:31:35 pm
Could someone tell me, through PM preferably, why 'we' don't like him?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on March 15, 2014, 05:32:24 pm
Holy crap, you guys were right about using jets for the first stage! This makes my life 100x easier (in KSP). Jets->Solid Boosters->Liquid fuel stage, and the only bit that still wastes liquid fuel is circularizing. If I want to escape, I just let the solid stage run it's course without gravity turning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on March 15, 2014, 05:53:16 pm
Quote from: My Name is Immaterial on March 15, 2014, 05:31:35 pm
Could someone tell me, through PM preferably, why 'we' don't like him?

So do I, PM please?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 15, 2014, 05:56:11 pm
Suffice to say that he's an actively antagonistic person who believes he can continue to be a complete twat because he has a small following.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on March 15, 2014, 06:22:08 pm
Well now I don't like him because he managed to take attention away from 90% of my post without me mentioning him.

After some research it looks like he's among the least nice of popular Minecraft modders. Not caring for making his mods compatible with other mods then freaking out when someone makes a properly compatible version. It doesn't look like anything PM worthy, just more Minecraft Forestry/Redpower type drama.

But that's not what we're here for! *makes rocket noises*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on March 15, 2014, 08:02:16 pm
Actually it's somewhat worse than not caring - he intentionally rewrote his entire mod from the ground up to be incompatible with almost every other mod because of a ridiculous disagreement with another modded. Basically issued the community as "It's me or everyone else" ultimatum.

BUT BACK ON TOPIC: From the sounds of it, 0.24's biggest feature is planned to be contracts. What exactly that means I'm not sure, but it sounds like the mission control mod will be getting some sort of much cooler official replacement. Also there's the thing they're working on alongside NASA, which should come out soon after .24, and add some sort of mission to get an asteroid into kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:34:52 pm
The asteroid mission is coming with 0.24, I'm pretty sure, since 0.24 is also getting some larger fuel tanks (!!) and a grappling hook (!!!!!).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 08:35:40 pm
Quote from: greatorder on March 15, 2014, 05:26:40 pm
Any ideas what the next update adds? All I've seen is Danny's video, which involved lots of flailing objects.
Which sounds pretty much like all of his videos.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 15, 2014, 05:56:11 pm
Suffice to say that he's an actively antagonistic person who believes he can continue to be a complete twat because he has a small following.
Quote from: dragnar on March 15, 2014, 08:02:16 pm
Actually it's somewhat worse than not caring - he intentionally rewrote his entire mod from the ground up to be incompatible with almost every other mod because of a ridiculous disagreement with another modded. Basically issued the community as "It's me or everyone else" ultimatum.
Ah.

Quote
BUT BACK ON TOPIC: From the sounds of it, 0.24's biggest feature is planned to be contracts. What exactly that means I'm not sure, but it sounds like the mission control mod will be getting some sort of much cooler official replacement. Also there's the thing they're working on alongside NASA, which should come out soon after .24, and add some sort of mission to get an asteroid into kerbin orbit.
Ooh, celestial bodies probably won't be on rails anymore.

Quote from: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:34:52 pm
The asteroid mission is coming with 0.24, I'm pretty sure, since 0.24 is also getting some larger fuel tanks (!!) and a grappling hook (!!!!!).
I suspect a connection.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:36:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 08:35:40 pm
Ooh, celestial bodies probably won't be on rails anymore.

That will never, ever, ever happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 08:37:28 pm
Then how could you move asteroids?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
...by having the asteroid be (under the hood) something that isn't actually a celestial body, but rather debris or some new class of object that isn't on-rails.

Seriously, though, having not-on-rails celestial bodies would be terrible. For one, they'd have to take out the highest time warp; for another, the Jool system is horribly unstable as it currently is (Bop and Tylo are both in unstable orbits that would launch them out of Jool's hill sphere in short order) and would therefore need a rework.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on March 15, 2014, 08:42:31 pm
IIRC, the mission isn't to go out and grab an asteroid, but to stop one that's going to collide.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 15, 2014, 08:57:28 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on March 15, 2014, 08:42:31 pm
IIRC, the mission isn't to go out and grab an asteroid, but to stop one that's going to collide.

No, it's actually going to be non-planet colliding asteroids that are in solar orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 15, 2014, 09:03:30 pm
It's not .24. It's a special patch numbered .23.10... (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/265-Kerbal-Space-Program-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-The-FAQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 15, 2014, 09:16:03 pm
Also, from one of the developers on a Scott Manley Deep Space Hangout, there are supposedly some changes in the physics code to make it moderately less terrible, resulting in much better collision response resolution, which in turn means sooner early-exits, more numerical stability, and faster physics overall. And thus the ability to actually build stations a little larger. :P

Or in more technical detail, a change allowed them to specify which of 2 parts is 'dominant,' which should always be the heavier one but up until this point was just the first in the tree. Recent changes (I think in Unity) have allowed them to specify the heavy part as dominant. Basically, physics engines are like trying to estimate a highly complex interaction formula. They detect a collision is occurring through some means, then need to respond with an appropriate response/reaction. Since the problem itself isn't really solvable in a lot of cases, it ends up using iterations of a refining method, hopefully converging to a more accurate solution. By properly defining the 'dominant' part, these methods can converge more quickly. Since the methods themselves involve error calculations, they also include early-out "good enough" conditions that stops the algorithm when it has converged to an acceptable level. So converging more quickly means that more accurate solutions can be found in cases where the max number of iterations previously was insufficient, as well as reducing the computation time required for those which can be found quick enough for the "good enough" condition to trigger.

TBH, I'm more excited about bigger stations and such than the actual features. :>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 10:16:31 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Seriously, though, having not-on-rails celestial bodies would be terrible. For one, they'd have to take out the highest time warp; for another, the Jool system is horribly unstable as it currently is (Bop and Tylo are both in unstable orbits that would launch them out of Jool's hill sphere in short order) and would therefore need a rework.
Why would they need to take out the highest time warp?
And wouldn't it make sense to put them in stable orbits regardless? (And what's a hill sphere? Was that a tyop or is it something I'd probably be interested to learn about?)

Quote from: alway on March 15, 2014, 09:16:03 pm
-snip-
Cool! I think!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on March 15, 2014, 10:23:37 pm
That claw thing sounds pretty damn awesome. Makes rescue craft that much easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 15, 2014, 11:00:00 pm
It makes career mode a bit easier. You can dock without docking rings on craft that was built before you got docking rings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 11:25:58 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 10:16:31 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Seriously, though, having not-on-rails celestial bodies would be terrible. For one, they'd have to take out the highest time warp; for another, the Jool system is horribly unstable as it currently is (Bop and Tylo are both in unstable orbits that would launch them out of Jool's hill sphere in short order) and would therefore need a rework.
Why would they need to take out the highest time warp?

Because n-body physics is very expensive computationally.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 10:16:31 pm
And wouldn't it make sense to put them in stable orbits regardless? (And what's a hill sphere? Was that a tyop or is it something I'd probably be interested to learn about?)

1. It's fine as-is, really.

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 15, 2014, 11:44:13 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 15, 2014, 09:03:30 pm
It's not .24. It's a special patch numbered .23.10... (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/265-Kerbal-Space-Program-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-The-FAQ)

It's in experimentals...


Guys, the average time between experimentals and a KSP release is 9 days.

It's almost here. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 16, 2014, 08:59:25 am
Quote from: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 11:25:58 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 10:16:31 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 15, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Seriously, though, having not-on-rails celestial bodies would be terrible. For one, they'd have to take out the highest time warp; for another, the Jool system is horribly unstable as it currently is (Bop and Tylo are both in unstable orbits that would launch them out of Jool's hill sphere in short order) and would therefore need a rework.
Why would they need to take out the highest time warp?
Because n-body physics is very expensive computationally.
Mm. Guess it wouldn't make sense to take them off rails if they weren't affected by more than one gravity at a time.

Quote
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 15, 2014, 10:16:31 pm
And wouldn't it make sense to put them in stable orbits regardless? (And what's a hill sphere? Was that a tyop or is it something I'd probably be interested to learn about?)
1. It's fine as-is, really.
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere
1. True, it doesn't affect much.
2. Thank you.

Quote from: Glloyd on March 15, 2014, 11:44:13 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 15, 2014, 09:03:30 pm
It's not .24. It's a special patch numbered .23.10... (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/265-Kerbal-Space-Program-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-The-FAQ)
It's in experimentals...
Guys, the average time between experimentals and a KSP release is 9 days.
It's almost here. :D
Whoo.
Is that mean or median?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 16, 2014, 12:16:16 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 16, 2014, 08:59:25 am
Quote from: Glloyd on March 15, 2014, 11:44:13 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 15, 2014, 09:03:30 pm
It's not .24. It's a special patch numbered .23.10... (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/265-Kerbal-Space-Program-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-The-FAQ)
It's in experimentals...
Guys, the average time between experimentals and a KSP release is 9 days.
It's almost here. :D
Whoo.
Is that mean or median?

Mean, or at least it was before 0.23 came out. I think 0.23 was 10 days.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2014, 04:15:06 am
Netcraft confirms it's out today?

Jk
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 18, 2014, 04:20:21 am
About to restart career mode with a buttload of mods that probably won't mesh well together;
Ferram aerospace;
Deadly reentry;
Remote Tech;
Kethane;
Kerbal attachment system;
Infernal robotics;
And finally;
Mechjeb.
Note I have never used any of these, in fact haven't installed any addons except for parts.
Kodspeed my poor doomed kerbals.

EDIT; And Tubes if if it's compatible, Kethane needed a bit of patching to support career mode, the rest seem to be integrated into the tech tree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2014, 04:33:56 am
Mechjeb and remotetech cause some control issues on probes for me

Note that I didn't try most recent version
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 18, 2014, 07:33:39 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 18, 2014, 04:20:21 am
About to restart career mode with a buttload of mods that probably won't mesh well together;
Ferram aerospace;
Deadly reentry;
Remote Tech;
Kethane;
Kerbal attachment system;
Infernal robotics;
And finally;
Mechjeb.
Note I have never used any of these, in fact haven't installed any addons except for parts.
Kodspeed my poor doomed kerbals.
Scott Manley uses all of these mods and a few others besides. I don't think that you have much to worry about.


On the subject of mods, is it possible to have a mod applied to one save but not the others?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2014, 08:17:08 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 18, 2014, 07:33:39 am
On the subject of mods, is it possible to have a mod applied to one save but not the others?
...yes? But it would require you to move the mods in and out as needed when loading the different saves.

Easier to just copy the KSP folder to a new location and run different builds in different folders.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 18, 2014, 08:51:07 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2014, 04:33:56 am
Note that I didn't try most recent version

There's your problem. Seriously, why would you expect mods to work unupdated?

Same goes for kethane, which is integrated with career.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2014, 09:18:40 am
Well I can't restart my career every time something gets a breaking update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2014, 09:29:11 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 18, 2014, 09:18:40 am
Well I can't restart my career every time something gets a breaking update.
You can usually update mods on an existing save. Sometimes it causes issues but generally it works fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 18, 2014, 09:38:16 am
Copy save and mods. Update mods. Play backup save. Does this break your save? Then revert.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 18, 2014, 11:51:59 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2014, 08:17:08 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 18, 2014, 07:33:39 am
On the subject of mods, is it possible to have a mod applied to one save but not the others?
...yes? But it would require you to move the mods in and out as needed when loading the different saves.

Easier to just copy the KSP folder to a new location and run different builds in different folders.
(The reason I was asking was because I knew it was possible with some games. For instance, Dwarf Fortress, which is the only game I've used extensive mods for.)

Noted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 18, 2014, 11:54:44 am
In DF that's kinda true but not really. DF itself is so tiny you just make separate folders for each mod. Most mods require a new world anyway. KSP treats mods very differently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Theodolus on March 18, 2014, 05:21:25 pm
It would be nice if they had a launcher system similar to CK2. Just check the mods you want to be active during that play session and uncheck them if you don't like them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 18, 2014, 05:28:20 pm
Quote from: Theodolus on March 18, 2014, 05:21:25 pm
It would be nice if they had a launcher system similar to CK2. Just check the mods you want to be active during that play session and uncheck them if you don't like them.

I believe they said that they were working on a mod manager at some point. Not sure how that turned out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 18, 2014, 05:37:22 pm
I'd rather see official mod managers at release, not now. Mods work, so it's not vital.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on March 18, 2014, 08:07:47 pm
On the other hand, having your mods segregated like that makes it easier to update (or disable) them when a new version comes around, and some work and some don't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 18, 2014, 08:13:03 pm
You can't pick and choose your KSP version, which is where mod versions fall apart making a manager necessary. You have to make separate installs of KSP, so you might as well have the mod loadout you want in each install. New KSP version = mods don't work. You need a new KSP install anyway to cut down on possible vanilla file conflicts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 19, 2014, 05:31:40 am
Eighteen orange tanks? Wow, that's alot of Kerbosene, The most efficient heavy Lifter I've ever devised needed 9 Orange tanks and 2 Oranges worth of 1/4 tanks in order to launch a full orange into a 200km orbit.
Required over a dozen resesigns and 6 launches before I learned to throttle down before the first stage hit 200 km/s.
In later news Jebediahs Space program has started, After an audacious first launch which was unexpectedly manned at the last minute, Kerlington Model Rocket and Paper Products have partnered with Jebediah, Bill, and Bob in order to science the skies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Mission controller seems OK, but a lot of parts have pretty unbalanced prices, if a single seat command pod costs 8k, mech jeb should cost a whole lot more than 4k, also, 400 for an orange tank? Fuel's really cheap, I'm going to need to rebalance the prices of each part as they become available.
It seems I'm misunderstanding how Mission controller calculates costs, fuel is seperate? I'm going to see what I can do to change costs. Hmm, 50k bucks for an orange tank worth of fuel seems excessive, what kind of funding do mission controller missions provide? I might reduce fuel costs a little.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 21, 2014, 12:00:14 pm
I have been struck with an idea, but it requires some save file editing. Hence, I have two questions:

1. If you, hypothetically, landed a spacecraft on something in one save, then wanted to put it on the same body in another save, how would you do this?
1b. Could you use this same method for spacecraft in orbit around something?
2. If I wanted to remove a probe body from it to keep it from being controlable, how would I do that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on March 21, 2014, 06:59:44 pm
It's surprisingly easy on both counts actually. The save file format is really simple - all you need to do is find the ship in the first save file, copy-paste it into the other one, and then edit the probe out.

As for how to DO that - first you'll wanna name the ship something easy to search for, because otherwise it'll likely be a pain to find. Then, you go to the persistent.sfs file in your saves/<savefilename> directory and copy everything from the start of the "VESSEL" tag, to the end of it. Which can be a bit annoying to locate, but simple enough. Similarly, each part in the ship is a PART {} tag, which you can just delete. Just have to find the probe body, select that full tag, and get rid of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 21, 2014, 10:44:44 pm
Thanks! Now I just need to remember where I had put MechJeb so I can do all that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 22, 2014, 07:46:59 am
I added mods last night to improve my game (I hoped). When I loaded up the sandbox, none of the things I had would load because of missing parts. I head to the VAB and discover that no parts are available to build things with. As far as I can tell, the problem is that the game doesn't think I have those parts unlocked. Of course, that doesn't explain the lack of flags. I start a new Sandbox game, and determine that the parts are missing from that, too.

...

Well then. Glad I made a backup. Time to try again, I guess...

EDIT: A more careful re-install worked. Although now I've discovered that I suck at cheating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 22, 2014, 08:50:53 am
Did you by chance delete/overwrite the Squad folder?

That's about the only thing I can think of it being.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 22, 2014, 10:03:21 am
Dunno.

Um. New problem. After copying the spaceship from one file to the other, I've discovered that neither save wants to load. I click Continue and nothing happens. Any idea why? Could it have something to do with the deleted probe body being the central part?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 22, 2014, 10:06:55 am
Was the probe connecting two branches in the same ship? Then you done fudged it all up. You made two crafts in one craft sort of section.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 22, 2014, 10:17:00 am
It was the core part. I took off all but one of the "branches".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 22, 2014, 10:33:23 am
I think you have to have a core of some sort.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 22, 2014, 10:41:15 am
Oh.

And I just remembered that I planned to try putting a stack separator between the probe and the bit I wanted to keep. That would have probably helped.

Now to...do something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 22, 2014, 10:51:18 am
I design lots of my ships with parts that will decouple, usually mod related so when things break or I drop a mod I don't lose an entire craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2014, 01:12:18 pm
I always explained to myself that a spaceraft responding to my input going in the opposite direction (yawing left made the craft going right) was due to random flaws in the model triggered by having rotated a surface on a weird angle.

turns out it is the expected behaviour at high speed if you have a large enough control surface

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 23, 2014, 05:17:18 pm
More save-editing time. I just copy-pasted the ship straight from one persistent.sfs file to the other, and the saves won't load. Is...is there some other thing I need to add to make it work? I saw some bit of file in the first file listing that we got to Minmus, do I need to add that to the other as well?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 23, 2014, 08:46:04 pm
So, Kerbal NASA Pack reveal is tomorrow at 3AM. I don't know what time zone, but a Kerbal marathon will be here http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv  all day Monday. .24 will probably release some days after the NASA pack.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 23, 2014, 08:56:15 pm
I believe it's CST. Whatever timezone Mexico city is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 23, 2014, 08:57:59 pm
I've been trying a dinky little aircraft made with mostly-basic parts. Notably, no landing gear. It's surprisingly easy to control, except for the part that it doesn't change velocity too fast. And the part that it turns itself too much. And the part that it tends to skid off the runway on takeoff. And the part where it's hard to land (girders make it theoretically possible). And the part where going on EVA with the engines off is lethal. And the part where I keep hitting q and e instead of a and d.

I should research proper landing gear.

EDIT: The second version is tested.

(http://i.imgur.com/Uz62j5I.png)
Wait, it's a probe?

(http://i.imgur.com/CmnRZqN.png)
So far, so good...

(http://i.imgur.com/WncCIP9.png)
Success! ...Wait, where's the mystery goo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 23, 2014, 09:29:14 pm
Marathon Stream in 4 or so hours.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 23, 2014, 10:03:13 pm
I've been trying out a more advanced science aircraft.

(http://i.imgur.com/snouJSc.png)
I think this counts as a failure.

(http://i.imgur.com/0kPPGVU.png)
As does this.

(http://i.imgur.com/FJEvueZ.png)
And this.

(http://i.imgur.com/H4NhGOH.png)
Are these getting worse?

(http://i.imgur.com/J9gzSle.png)
I'm starting to suspect that something is wrong with the basic design. Probably the engines.

(http://i.imgur.com/WzqR0FC.png)
Let's try adding one in the middle...

(http://i.imgur.com/dZIj35a.png)
You missed it, but the middle engine exploded and then everything stopped.

(http://i.imgur.com/574wdS8.png)
Looks like the same thing happened, except we mo--
(http://i.imgur.com/p0yK1GV.png)
--what happened when I was taking the screenshot?!?

(http://i.imgur.com/6SLqhDY.png)
We are technically flying! But we exploded before I could finish taking the screenshot.

(http://i.imgur.com/04oudI9.png)
It probably went something like that.

...Maybe I'll take a break. Or go to bed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on March 24, 2014, 04:59:12 pm
Seems like you might have a good chance of doing a vertical takeoff with that craft rather than a horizontal one - at least until you get, you know, wheels! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on March 25, 2014, 12:56:33 am
(http://i.imgur.com/uwOxCOWl.png)
This is your force diagram. The only thing it's going to do like that is flip the nose into the ground. If you want to offset the drag's torque, you need to move the engines down a bit, and possibly rotate them a bit to send thrust slightly upwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 01:04:55 am
My mod list is now getting rather extreme, I've added Interstellar, Engineer, TAC life support, and Cargo transfer bags For TAC life support. I'm not entriely sure, but since Transfer bags can be kerbhandled, they might be shovable into KAS containers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 25, 2014, 06:13:46 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 01:04:55 am
My mod list is now getting rather extreme, I've added Interstellar, Engineer, TAC life support, and Cargo transfer bags For TAC life support. I'm not entriely sure, but since Transfer bags can be kerbhandled, they might be shovable into KAS containers.

Try not to go too overboard. The last version I played I downloaded a stupid amount of mods, and at the end of it I downloaded B9 and not one of the parts showed up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 06:35:05 am
I'll probably not add much more, I'll note that Scott Manley uses all these except the cargo bags so they should work together.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 25, 2014, 09:21:04 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on March 24, 2014, 04:59:12 pm
Seems like you might have a good chance of doing a vertical takeoff with that craft rather than a horizontal one - at least until you get, you know, wheels! :D
Maybe if I put the engines vertically...hm...

Quote from: alway on March 25, 2014, 12:56:33 am
(http://i.imgur.com/uwOxCOWl.png)
This is your force diagram. The only thing it's going to do like that is flip the nose into the ground. If you want to offset the drag's torque, you need to move the engines down a bit, and possibly rotate them a bit to send thrust slightly upwards.
...I think I understand? I'll try modifying the T-wing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 10:41:35 am
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but there are a few videos released of the asteroid redirect mission pack on youtube, the ksp main page links to them, amongst them are Scott Manley talking to some developers and of course danny2462.
Go check them out!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 25, 2014, 11:46:16 am
(http://i.imgur.com/0vIxBYX.png)
That should work. I hope. Let's test it out.

(http://i.imgur.com/t7vLrJc.png)
We lost an engine within seconds...does this count as a failure?

(http://i.imgur.com/17tifVx.png)
What happened that time?

(http://i.imgur.com/mwRsOcn.png)
Why are things exploding?

(http://i.imgur.com/7vzwTjm.png)
I don't think the wing should be on that side. (It later flew up, then came down, tapped the spinning plane, and fell apart.)

(http://i.imgur.com/Eb6CALp.png)
Ejection has unforseen side effects...

(http://i.imgur.com/7yXnUKk.png)
...but Jeb's okay.

(http://i.imgur.com/8bsvFk6.png)
Maybe I should investigate that? Nah, it exploded right after I took this screenshot.

Let's do a redesign. Two things: Chop off the tail and redo the landing gear.

(http://i.imgur.com/MednHDq.png)

What happens now? Well, we start taking off, the plane begins to veer sideways, it goes off the runway, starts to get airborne, I tilt the nose up to accelerate this, and...

(http://i.imgur.com/7ZU8PzB.png)

Well then. I adjust a couple control surfaces in back to make them more level (just in case), add two girders to the wings to stabilize takeoff (I hope), and...

(http://i.imgur.com/LHtiVGD.png)
Don't worry, only part of it blew up! The rest blew up when it ran off the runway, though.

...Um...maybe I'd stop veering off the runway if I put reaction wheels on the wing things?
That does the trick alright!

(http://i.imgur.com/Jg6HI5g.png)

Now to fly somewhere!

EDIT:
The first test went well. The second went...well...

(http://i.imgur.com/vcZ5Fsw.png)

...yeah. Takeoff is tricky.
And Smart ASS doesn't help...

(http://i.imgur.com/LKlFWvl.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on March 25, 2014, 12:23:11 pm
Good flying.
Best plane.
(:P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 25, 2014, 12:42:29 pm
Get those fukken MK2 cockpits, GWG.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 25, 2014, 12:44:27 pm
Have you considered taking off straight up or at an angle, so there's none of that sketchy landing gear nonsense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 25, 2014, 12:48:45 pm
Er, I just noticed you had no landin' gears, son.

I definitely support turning it into a VTOL. Being an avid builder of the things, I can say with experience that it's not too hard to do.

Unfortunately, I have no time for instructions, so figger it out. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 01:45:50 pm
Make it STOL, pop some seperatrons on that so it can quickly hop upwards and avoid scraping on those girders.
Or use something more durable as landing gear, try attachment hardpoints, notice they have a durability of 9999.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 25, 2014, 02:06:18 pm
My hovercraft isn't too good either. Rather, it's too good at flying, and not good enough at landing.

(http://i.imgur.com/gUBJaxv.png)

The next one was more careful but still landed hard while I tried to calibrate the hovering throttle. This lead to the engines getting knocked off?

Treating it as a VTOL vehicle and not a hovercraft worked better. So did planned landings.


Quote from: IronTomato on March 25, 2014, 12:42:29 pm
Get those fukken MK2 cockpits, GWG.
Suggestion...recorded.

Quote from: MarcAFK on March 25, 2014, 01:45:50 pm
Make it STOL, pop some seperatrons on that so it can quickly hop upwards and avoid scraping on those girders.
Or use something more durable as landing gear, try attachment hardpoints, notice they have a durability of 9999.
I don't have those either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 26, 2014, 02:47:40 am
I should probably stop development of the "Multijet 1.0" after a string of flight failures.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It probably wasn't such a good idea to put so much crap onto it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It likes veering to the left on the runway, also it wants to roll counterclockwise on takeoff
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here we attempt to land on the island runway
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Couldn't pull up in time, couldn't see how high was the hill the runway  is on. Radar would be a good idea?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lost it, ditched into the ocean
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another failed attempt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Trying for the real runway, that dirt one is scary anyway
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not quite straight approach.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Almost made it, actually hit the ground far too hard and disintegrated right at the end.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The decoupler and parachute certainly came in handy
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Rip Brave kerbals
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 26, 2014, 09:45:39 am
I'd again like to ask how you move ships from save to save without breaking the game. Copy-pasting the ship description doesn't work; I can't load the save when I do that. Possibly relevant: The ship in the original has parts not yet available in the pasted place, and perhaps from parts of the tech tree the pasted place doesn't have access to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erils on March 26, 2014, 11:53:50 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 26, 2014, 09:45:39 am
I'd again like to ask how you move ships from save to save without breaking the game. Copy-pasting the ship description doesn't work; I can't load the save when I do that. Possibly relevant: The ship in the original has parts not yet available in the pasted place, and perhaps from parts of the tech tree the pasted place doesn't have access to.
I don't have experience with this but that seems like the reason why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 26, 2014, 01:02:32 pm
Well...that kinda negates the reason I wanted to transfer spacecraft from one to the other.

On this save-file-editing note, is it possible to give kerbonauts not named Jebediah, Bill, or Bob orange spacesuits, or are those suits hardcoded to be given only to those three?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 26, 2014, 04:14:36 pm
The orange suits have a different name. It doesn't matter because all kerbonauts are immortal. They'll show up again eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 26, 2014, 04:46:07 pm
I like to disable that, because it's more interesting when a ship explodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 26, 2014, 05:47:56 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 26, 2014, 04:14:36 pm
The orange suits have a different name. It doesn't matter because all kerbonauts are immortal. They'll show up again eventually.
What do you mean, "different name"?
I don't care, I just want to give the kerbonaut an orange space suit as a reward for an impressive flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 26, 2014, 06:22:40 pm
I'm fairly sure all kerbonauts are in your persistence file. The type of suit they wear has a name.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 26, 2014, 07:38:39 pm
Er whoops, sorry GWG. I meant fuselages, not cockpits. Derp.

To reiterate: Get those fukken MK2 fuselages, GWG.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 28, 2014, 01:59:02 pm
Doing Cupcake style of SSTO's horribly but successfully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCHxKLxB_Q
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 28, 2014, 02:10:28 pm
I didn't really mind the hype-building, but someone posted something which makes some sense- by limiting who may film prerelease videos, Squad hurts lesser-known youtubers because by the time they can access the patch, there's little need to see the clip, so regardless of their skill, they won't have an audience. It's certainly not the crime of the century, but it is a little unfair.

In a perfect world, of course, this wouldn't be a problem because every game project would be open source and all game developers would get bottomless government pensions. Restricted by reality, I wouldn't mind if squad kept releases under wraps a little longer and maybe focused on having a strict timeline of giving out prereleases no more than a week before the update hits. Internal teasers are fine, of course.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on March 28, 2014, 04:53:56 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 28, 2014, 02:10:28 pm
Restricted by reality, I wouldn't mind if squad kept releases under wraps a little longer and maybe focused on having a strict timeline of giving out prereleases no more than a week before the update hits. Internal teasers are fine, of course.

It's normally like that, but the fact that this is a partnership with NASA means that it is taking more time than normal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 28, 2014, 09:59:21 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 28, 2014, 01:59:02 pm
Doing Cupcake style of SSTO's horribly but successfully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCHxKLxB_Q
I'm not sure what he's doing.

In other news, my latest attempt to hack a plot-related spacecraft to Minmus caused me to crash into the Mun whilst watching me blow past the encounter on the Map screen. Whoops. Also, wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 28, 2014, 10:43:37 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 28, 2014, 09:59:21 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 28, 2014, 01:59:02 pm
Doing Cupcake style of SSTO's horribly but successfully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCHxKLxB_Q
I'm not sure what he's doing.

Lots of part clipping. The early parts are all experiments to get something that works. What he ends up with is a Kerbin > Minmus > Kerbin craft with one stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 29, 2014, 01:12:05 am
Screwing around with rovers for the first time, much fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 02:23:18 am
I decided to build a starship. I think it turned out pretty well. Now I need to figure out how to bleed off 12 km/s in a reasonable amount of time in order to get into orbit around Jool.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on March 29, 2014, 04:54:20 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 02:23:18 am
I decided to build a starship. I think it turned out pretty well. Now I need to figure out how to bleed off 12 km/s in a reasonable amount of time in order to get into orbit around Jool.

Use multiple warps. By jumping from a high orbit to a low one, you reduce your orbital velocity.

Also, try to get into the same orbital velocity as Jool before going there. That makes it much easier. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 29, 2014, 06:55:36 am
Quote from: Twi on March 29, 2014, 04:54:20 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 02:23:18 am
I decided to build a starship. I think it turned out pretty well. Now I need to figure out how to bleed off 12 km/s in a reasonable amount of time in order to get into orbit around Jool.

Use multiple warps. By jumping from a high orbit to a low one, you reduce your orbital velocity.

Also, try to get into the same orbital velocity as Jool before going there. That makes it much easier. :P

You could also aerobrake.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 29, 2014, 09:32:58 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 02:23:18 am
I decided to build a starship. I think it turned out pretty well. Now I need to figure out how to bleed off 12 km/s in a reasonable amount of time in order to get into orbit around Jool.

Here you go:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 10:13:23 am
Quote from: Twi on March 29, 2014, 04:54:20 am
Use multiple warps. By jumping from a high orbit to a low one, you reduce your orbital velocity.

Also, try to get into the same orbital velocity as Jool before going there. That makes it much easier. :P
That was the first thing I tried, and it only succeeded in increasing my velocity when I went back to a high orbit. And what's the point of having a warp drive if I have to wait to use it? May as well just take the long way at that point.

Quote
You could also aerobrake.
Not an option. I'm using deadly reentry, and at those speeds I can barely skim the atmosphere before things start burning up. There are some lazor missiles on board which are the first to go, taking the rest of the ship with them.

Quote
Here you go:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Interesting, I'm not sure I completely understand what's going on, but I'll try it on a future mission.

Fortunately, the ship has a quantum vacuum plasma thruster, which I think means it can keep producing thrust as long as there's power. Unfortunately, even at maximum power the thrust is barely enough to move the ship, so it may take several hours to accomplish anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 10:33:47 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 10:13:23 am
And what's the point of having a warp drive if I have to wait to use it? May as well just take the long way at that point.
There's a reason Scott Manley called it non-OP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 29, 2014, 11:45:18 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on March 29, 2014, 10:13:23 am
Quote
Here you go:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Interesting, I'm not sure I completely understand what's going on, but I'll try it on a future mission.

Fortunately, the ship has a quantum vacuum plasma thruster, which I think means it can keep producing thrust as long as there's power. Unfortunately, even at maximum power the thrust is barely enough to move the ship, so it may take several hours to accomplish anything.

Basically you need to match the direction and speed of your target before entering its SOI. Given time within Kerbol's influence you can match the speed of your target. If you warped in just right you should also be going in the same relative direction as your target body, so you can just zip over there. If you're going for the inner planets you'll be diving into the sun because you were traveling at Kerbin's speed which is too slow when you're closer to the sun. If you go to the outer planets you'll be going too fast so you'll be on a trajectory leaving the sun's SOI. That's just how the Alcubierre works. It preserves your velocity and trajectory in space. When you're out of warp then bodies can act on you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 29, 2014, 11:51:35 am
I think you mean leaving the planet's SOI. I don't think you can escape the sun's SOI.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 29, 2014, 11:58:37 am
As far as the trajectory lines go you are leaving the sun's SOI. You've pretty much hit the limit of the known universe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on March 29, 2014, 12:19:41 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on March 29, 2014, 11:51:35 am
I think you mean leaving the planet's SOI. I don't think you can escape the sun's SOI.
Technically you'd still be in the sun's modeled SOI, but your orbit would be an escape orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 06:11:23 pm
I spent four hours or so (almost 5% of the total time I've played KSP!) today just walking across Minmus. I covered almost 30 kilometers. (I would have started closer, but I bounced a lot further than anticipated.)

Next, I need to walk back to the spacecraft that got me here...and that is 91.1 kilometers away.

Is there an easy way to move my kerbonaut's position closer to the ship so I don't have to hold w down for twelve hours?
(P.S. EVA rocketry isn't an option. Between the time I spent repreatedly crashing into Minmus's surface and my complete lack of EVA fuel...)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 29, 2014, 06:22:29 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 06:11:23 pm
I spent four hours or so (almost 5% of the total time I've played KSP!) today just walking across Minmus. I covered almost 30 kilometers. (I would have started closer, but I bounced a lot further than anticipated.)

Next, I need to walk back to the spacecraft that got me here...and that is 91.1 kilometers away.

Is there an easy way to move my kerbonaut's position closer to the ship so I don't have to hold w down for twelve hours?
(P.S. EVA rocketry isn't an option. Between the time I spent repreatedly crashing into Minmus's surface and my complete lack of EVA fuel...)

Launch and land a rover near him. Make sure that it's really low and flat, though, since it will otherwise flip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on March 29, 2014, 07:43:18 pm
I'm surprised MechJeb doesn't have a walking autopilot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 10:26:32 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 29, 2014, 06:22:29 pm
Launch and land a rover near him. Make sure that it's really low and flat, though, since it will otherwise flip.
We don't have the tech required. No rover wheels (although I think we have landing gear), and Bob would have to cling to a ladder.

Quote from: Vattic on March 29, 2014, 07:43:18 pm
I'm surprised MechJeb doesn't have a walking autopilot.
To the KSP forums!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 30, 2014, 05:32:28 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 06:11:23 pm
I covered almost 30 kilometers.

The spacecraft ... is 91.1 kilometers away.

How is that even possible? :p

Anyway, would be. Faster to send a second rocket. Or a unmanned rocket with a rover.

Doesn't need to be able to fly the way back, just to fly to the return ship
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 07:49:00 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on March 30, 2014, 05:32:28 am
How is that even possible? :p
I'm stubborn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 30, 2014, 12:32:34 pm
line up the kerbal with the ship and put a stack of quarters on the W key.

Here's my modlist. I made it the absolute minimum:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Italics are mods that aren't really essential.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 30, 2014, 12:49:28 pm
What, no B9 ore firespitter?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 01:00:28 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 30, 2014, 12:32:34 pm
line up the kerbal with the ship and put a stack of quarters on the W key.
It would still take like 12 hours. And my computer is a laptop, I'd have to put it on a table and leave it there for twelve hours. And it was a lot easier and more fun to build a rocket-spacecar.

Quote
Here's my modlist. I made it the absolute minimum:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Italics are mods that aren't really essential.
I dunno about MechJeb's italicism. I'm not sure what all Flight Engineer gives, but MehJeb's information is pretty darn required all on its own; I probably would have crashed into Minmus a lot more if I hadn't had that. Smart A.S.S. is pretty helpful, too. (I'm pretty sure MechJeb does other things, but I've never figured it out.)

Quote from: Aseaheru on March 30, 2014, 12:49:28 pm
What, no B9 ore firespitter?
He said it was minimal.

Anyways. On the subject of mods...I've seen Scott Menley using something that lets him type values in for his maneuver nodes. Any idea what that is or where I can get it? Those fine adjustments are really annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 01:09:54 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on March 30, 2014, 12:49:28 pm
What, no B9 ore firespitter?

B9 and Firespitter are almost entirely atmospheric parts. Other than Ferram and parachutes, that list of mods is largely for vacuum. Even with texture reductions B9 is quite bloated. The single most useful thing in B9 is the computer that tells you your action groups.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 30, 2014, 01:38:18 pm
I've used both B9 and Firespitter, and they are pretty cool, but they add so many parts it gets a little overboard- and I have three different flavors of NERVA alone. I would love a Firespitter-lite that just adds a simple electric prop engine for flying on oxygenless worlds.

Flight engineer is Mechjeb without the automation. It shows you delta-v and some other information but won't plot maneuvers or anything. When I feel like pretending I'm Scottmannley enough to fly manual, then I prefer to use Flight Engineer. But when I just want to put this satelight into this precise orbit, then I put mechjeb on there.

Apparently, Remotetech has its own minimalist node executor, so strictly speaking I only need the one.


EDIT: Forgot Porkwork's habitat pack

You know, I should make a formal pack and maybe tweak the tech tree a little... which I suppose means that I should get the Tech Tree Loader mod. I really have to many mods as it is, but I do want to make it so that you need to research nuclear power for electronics before you research NERVAs. Bah!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 02:43:32 pm
I'm a bit fuzzy on the specifics, but...aren't NERVAs basically the atomic engines? Aside from the fuel thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 30, 2014, 03:08:07 pm
Yes. They use internal radioactive fuel to heat reaction mass into rocket exhaust. On Earth, we use water or hydrogen. Kerbals just don't feel that something is a proper rocket unless you pour rocket fuel into it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 03:32:07 pm
So why do people feel the need to make more of them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 30, 2014, 04:08:43 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on March 30, 2014, 01:38:18 pm
I have three different flavors of NERVA alone.

yeah I hate you get a pack of engines and they contain power gens, you get power gens and they come with solars..
you want a warp drive and you get a complete mining infrastructure duplicate and incompatible with kethane and co...

./rant
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 30, 2014, 07:19:24 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 29, 2014, 06:11:23 pm
I spent four hours or so (almost 5% of the total time I've played KSP!) today just walking across Minmus. I covered almost 30 kilometers. (I would have started closer, but I bounced a lot further than anticipated.)

Next, I need to walk back to the spacecraft that got me here...and that is 91.1 kilometers away.

Is there an easy way to move my kerbonaut's position closer to the ship so I don't have to hold w down for twelve hours?
(P.S. EVA rocketry isn't an option. Between the time I spent repreatedly crashing into Minmus's surface and my complete lack of EVA fuel...)


You can use time warp while running....

I mean, your kerbal will run in a zig-zaggy path, but its faster then normal :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 07:24:36 pm
Here's a really good ARM video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZ66sMuFbU .23.5 hnnnnnng
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
Quote from: BFEL on March 30, 2014, 07:19:24 pm
You can use time warp while running....
I was using time warp. 4x, to be specific; most of my journey was at too high of an altitude for non-physical time warp, and the one time I accidentally used it lead to an unexpected explosion.

Quote from: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 07:24:36 pm
Here's a really good ARM video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZ66sMuFbU .23.5 hnnnnnng
I'll probably watch it once I get around to finishing Scott's livestream of similar.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 30, 2014, 09:05:39 pm
Spoiler: Mo' like DrunkJeb (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 30, 2014, 09:22:33 pm
Needs more fins.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 09:25:21 pm
Yeah, that's probably your own fault.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 10:30:18 pm
You know, it just occurred to me that I haven't done much with the Interstellar mod. I've been focused enough on my LP that I haven't sandboxed much. So, I'll try making an SSTO starship. How hard can it be, when I have the might of all the tech in the game and a few mods I happen to have?

Well, the first hard thing is insanely long load times. I'm talking minutes of lag just to switch pages in the VAB! I'm not sure what's up, but I've got a hunch that it has something to do with the mods I've installed, more specifically the number of parts, since this problem didn't come up earlier today. On the other hand, the effect is pretty inconstant, and this didn't happen last time I used the sandbox, so who the hell knows what's going on? Well, at least once I've clicked to a page it seems to be quick to go back to it.

Once I solved this, I hit the problem of there being a whole lot of stuff. And that it's swiftly approaching midnight. I'll see where I can get with this thing later.


I'm not sure what exactly is going on there, but I'm not seeing much in the way of control anything. And if MechJeb was that incompetent, it wouldn't have gotten to 12,000 meters. Heck, my brother wasn't so bad that he pointed in-control rockets at the ground, and he couldn't get a rocket into orbit! He could barely get rockets to space!
A note to my brither, if he is reading this: I apologize for apparently using you as a benchmark for incompetence.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 10:33:31 pm
You can build crazy SSTO's with stock parts. Why lean on Interstellar if you're just getting used to base game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 10:38:48 pm
I'm doing this largely to test out Interstellar, actually.

And I think I've got the basics of the game down--and with KSP, the advanced stuff is mostly different applying the basics, is it not?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 11:26:43 pm
Interstellar career and sandbox will be different. Early parts are weaker until upgraded. You can't upgrade until unlocking the tree. Upgraded and unupraded vehicles will have to be built very differently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 31, 2014, 02:05:36 am
Oh huff, you guys!

Just thought it was funny that mechjeb tried to gravity turn and ended up pointing at the ground. Also, there was a reaction wheel near the top. :P

I'm pretty confident I coulda put that in orbit, just wanted to see what mechjeb could do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on March 31, 2014, 05:29:20 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
Quote from: BFEL on March 30, 2014, 07:19:24 pm
You can use time warp while running....
I was using time warp. 4x, to be specific; most of my journey was at too high of an altitude for non-physical time warp, and the one time I accidentally used it lead to an unexpected explosion.

Quote from: BigD145 on March 30, 2014, 07:24:36 pm
Here's a really good ARM video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZ66sMuFbU .23.5 hnnnnnng
I'll probably watch it once I get around to finishing Scott's livestream of similar.

ALT + Period my friend :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 31, 2014, 06:18:06 am
Quote from: BFEL on March 31, 2014, 02:05:36 am
Oh huff, you guys!

Just thought it was funny that mechjeb tried to gravity turn and ended up pointing at the ground. Also, there was a reaction wheel near the top. :P

I'm pretty confident I coulda put that in orbit, just wanted to see what mechjeb could do.
"a reaction wheel"
That rocket looks too big for one reaction wheel. I like to put at least one on every stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 06:37:26 am
Quote from: ank on March 31, 2014, 05:29:20 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
Quote from: BFEL on March 30, 2014, 07:19:24 pm
You can use time warp while running....
I was using time warp. 4x, to be specific; most of my journey was at too high of an altitude for non-physical time warp, and the one time I accidentally used it lead to an unexpected explosion.
ALT + Period my friend :)
...
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 30, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
I was using time warp. 4x, to be specific;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 09:03:05 am
I have completed my mad startship. 1,560 tons of fuel, rockets, and some fun stuff.
It has six Mainsails, a Griffon XX (the largest rocket in KW Rocketry), and twelve Thor SRBs (the largest solid boosters in KW Rocketry). It has just under 5,000 of Δv and room for 20 crew members. Its total fuel capacity is insane. It can barely fit in the VAB, I can't even scroll all the way up it, and it needs extensive strutting before it can even think of launching (or even not explosively deconstructing on contact with physics). Hell if I can figure out where, though.

Let's try something...smaller.
Only 1,316 tons and change, with over five km/s of Δv. Four Titans (large, decent-efficiency engines), five crew (the D-Team, because I chose my kerbonauts with names that start with "d").
It's still falling over and exploding.

I try to go for the bare minimum. 763 tons, one crew (Jeb), one engine, a crapton of fuel. It has over 57 kilounits of liquid fuel, nearly 70 kilounits of oxidizer, and close to 50 kilounits of electricity. And it has an antimatter drive, antimatter collectors, and a warp drive.
It also has a TWR less than one. Whoops. Even a Griffon XX can't lift this monstrosity alone! So, I instead add six Mainsails around the edges as "boosters", bringing the TWR up to 1.61 (until they run dry). I then switch the central engine to a more efficient Vesta (another KW part). TWR down to 1.24, but eh.

I'll launch it after class. My plan: Launch this thing, then run a refueling mission, then...I dunno.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 31, 2014, 09:08:25 am
Quote
then, dunno

I found this
http://m.imgur.com/a/MIZvl

It's inspirational, mad, entertaining, unbelievable.

Has been my goal ever since, but I still failed it.


Edit: i was in a hurry and got the wrong grand tour.

This is it http://m.imgur.com/a/19USo
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 12:31:33 pm
That was epic.

Now to test my starship?. 790 tons of fuel and metal. Liftoff is slow, despite having 9.6 MN of thrust, but I know it'll get faster. I notice the outer fuel tanks (oh, right I need to show y'all what it looks like) wobbling, which is...disconcerting. It can't be that bad. Right?
The engines are overheating. That...that is an issue.
By three kilometers (above sea level), we're going at ~90 m/s, have dropped nearly 200 tons of fuel, and our engines are at something like 70% overheat. I think the heat is falling, and it definitely isn't rising. This is good.

While I'm thinking about it, here's a screenshot of the lower half of the spaceship with all its rockets firing.

(http://i.imgur.com/xFCaR4j.png)

I slowly, slowly turn my cumbersome creation at 10-11 kilometers ASL.
Around 35 km ASL, not quite three minutes into the mission, the Mainsails run out of fuel and are turned off. Though the TWR (ASL) is now less than one-fourth, we're continuing to accelerate.
52,300 meters ASL. Apoapsis goes past 70,000. I keep burning, so I'll have time to circularize. On the other hand, time to apoapsis is dropping...
Estimated burn time: Over eight minutes. Time to apoapsis: Half a minute. Shite. Especially since the starship doesn't have parachutes.
Five minutes into the mission. Been burning for something like 50 seconds, with about 7:20 remaining. Mass of the vessel is down to ~250 tons, less than a third of its starting weight. Thrust is down to 600 kN, a fraction of what it was at the launchpad. Too small.
5:27. We enter the atmosphere. Barely any of the orbital insertion burn has been completed. Periapsis: Still hundreds of kilometers underground.
6:05. 60,000 meters. Periapsis has risen a few dozen kilometers. Burn maybe a sixth or a seventh of the way through? Apoapsis jittering about but mostly going up.
6:30. 50k. Activating Ascent Guidance and killing node.
6:45. 42,240 meters ASL. Autopilot has been figured out and engaged, then quickly fixed since I set the orbital altitude to 10,075 kilometers on accident.
6:59. 35k. Surface speed increasing, but is it from horizontal speed...or vertical?
7:20. 23k. Re-entry effects. I take the chance to show off my attempted starship.

(http://i.imgur.com/LMSb4po.png)

I'm pretty well doomed.

7:38. I disengage autopilot and turn on Smart ASS, hoping that a retrograde burn will reduce velocity enough that the splashdown won't be lethal. It's certainly slowing us down.
7:56. 9000 meters ASL. Still with a surface speed over 350 m/s. 280 horizontal, 200 vertical. Under 220 tons. Still dropping speed, mass, and altitude.
8:22. With our horizontal speed mostly negated (down to 40 m/s), I have the SASS turn us vertical to kill the vertical. In theory. WE've got 4,400 meters to fall and are losing them at about 150 per second.
8:33. Three kilometers to go. Velocity a bit under 133 m/s, mostly vertical.
8:41. Two left. Horizontal velocity recently reached a trough, and if going back up. Vertical still falling, at 114.4 now.
8:46. Fifteen hundred meters and counting.
8:51. Last kilometer. Falling at a hundred meters per second. With the deceleration, maybe I'll make it eleven seconds instead of ten.
8:56. 95 m/s. 500 meters.
8:57. 93 m/s. 400.
8:58. 92. 300.
8:59. 91. 200.
9:00. 90. 100.
9:01. Splashdown. No surviving debris.

(http://i.imgur.com/Np39kNb.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/slCdIzj.png)

Well. Next version:

1. More fuel for the Mainsails.
2. Some winglets couldn't hurt.
3. Struts!
4. Ejection system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 31, 2014, 12:46:19 pm
That thing is absurd. You might want to try adding asparagus-style fuel lines to those boosters. Even if you aren't dropping the tanks, it should help even out the thrust so you aren't left with nothing by the time you're doing the orbital insertion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 12:53:31 pm
That would just make the fuel run out one engine at a time, rather than all at once. (Currently, the outer fuel tanks are all flowing into the central one.)
I guess that the lower consumption for a time might help some, but...well...symmetry mode makes asparagus harder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 01:01:35 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 12:53:31 pm
That would just make the fuel run out one engine at a time, rather than all at once. (Currently, the outer fuel tanks are all flowing into the central one.)
I guess that the lower consumption for a time might help some, but...well...symmetry mode makes asparagus harder.

Symmetry makes asparagus easy. However many tanks you lose at once, that's your symmetry. That is usually 2 or 3, depending on how your craft is built above the initial lifting stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 31, 2014, 01:06:56 pm
Nevermind what I said, I wasn't thinking clearly. If you aren't dropping the tanks, asparagus fuel lines would only make things worse. You probably want each booster on it's own, and not connected to the central engine, especially if the central engine has a lower specific impulse or can't put out enough TWR to get you into orbit alone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 01:48:37 pm
600 pages!

Quote from: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 01:01:35 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 12:53:31 pm
That would just make the fuel run out one engine at a time, rather than all at once. (Currently, the outer fuel tanks are all flowing into the central one.)
I guess that the lower consumption for a time might help some, but...well...symmetry mode makes asparagus harder.
Symmetry makes asparagus easy. However many tanks you lose at once, that's your symmetry. That is usually 2 or 3, depending on how your craft is built above the initial lifting stage.
I'd have to rebuild, since I've got 6x symmetry at the moment.

Quote from: nogoodnames on March 31, 2014, 01:06:56 pm
Nevermind what I said, I wasn't thinking clearly. If you aren't dropping the tanks, asparagus fuel lines would only make things worse. You probably want each booster on it's own, and not connected to the central engine, especially if the central engine has a lower specific impulse or can't put out enough TWR to get you into orbit alone.
The central engine has better specific impulse but worse thrust (I think) than the smaller Mainsails.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 02:04:27 pm
You always have to rebuild.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 31, 2014, 02:11:04 pm
6x symmetry is fine, you'd just need to connect the fuel lines one at a time and manually arrange the stages. As long as things are symmetrical there isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 02:13:26 pm
If you don't want to asparagus then go the route of Munshine. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63050-0-23-MUNSHINE-LIFTERS-5-165-tons-to-orbit-including-low-tech-Career-Mode-versions!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 02:38:29 pm
I have returned to playing this game after a long absence, and I'm back to building weird contraptions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The command seat is almost invisible on the top there, but it's there. I've no idea how much dV it has, but I'm entertaining the thought of going to Gilly with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 08:00:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 02:13:26 pm
If you don't want to asparagus then go the route of Munshine. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63050-0-23-MUNSHINE-LIFTERS-5-165-tons-to-orbit-including-low-tech-Career-Mode-versions!)
Those sure look staged. I did say I was going for SSTO, right?
My end goal is basically one of those ships you see in all sci-fi which can take off, head to another world, and land without anything but refueling.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 02:38:29 pm
I have returned to playing this game after a long absence, and I'm back to building weird contraptions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The command seat is almost invisible on the top there, but it's there. I've no idea how much dV it has, but I'm entertaining the thought of going to Gilly with it.
Sure looks neat. What is it? What does it do? Are those red things heat radiators or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 31, 2014, 09:01:25 pm
If you're after ssto you probably want to go with rapier/ LVN,
However since you have interstellarim sure there's far better engine choices available.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 31, 2014, 09:24:39 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 31, 2014, 09:01:25 pm
If you're after ssto you probably want to go with rapier/ LVN,
However since you have interstellarim sure there's far better engine choices available.

There are, but they require mastery of beamed power, which is indistinguishable from magic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 31, 2014, 09:55:01 pm
Nah, just have to be A: Close, B: not too close and C: able to see the target.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on March 31, 2014, 10:28:32 pm
ERB? Epic Rap Battle? Kerbals vs Minions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 10:41:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on March 31, 2014, 09:24:39 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 31, 2014, 09:01:25 pm
If you're after ssto you probably want to go with rapier/ LVN,
However since you have interstellarim sure there's far better engine choices available.
There are, but they require mastery of beamed power, which is indistinguishable from magic.
...Beamed power isn't magic. It's basically flashlights and solar panels, except adapted more precisely to the purpose of beaming power.

Also, I hadn't thought of that. Science fiction ships like the ones I'm trying to copy do tend to use stuff more advanced than chemical rockets. Maybe I'll try that later.

I add more fuel, fuel lines, and a few struts to my previous design; apparently, I added a little too much, because for a moment, my engines didn't lift me off the ground. It must have been a thousand tons or so when we started.
As the rocket burns, we gain altitude and velocity, and our mass drops by hundreds of tons. It's amazing how excruciatingly slow seven massive rockets can push an oversized fuel tank; it takes over a minute to go two kilometers ASL.
Around a a minute and a half in, the first pair of Mainsails goes out. With only 6.6 meganewtons of thrust behind the rocket, we're barely above a TWR of 1, though we've burned off something like a quarter or a third of our weight. I retroactively intended for that to happen.
Less than three minutes in (I miss the exact second), we're down two more Mainsails and need to gravity-turn. Our TWR? 0.77. New plan: Next version, stick a stronger (if lower-ISP) engine in the middle. Also more reaction wheels, it's taking forever for the SASS to turn things.
Four minutes, ~20 seconds. We pass 15 kilometers. Still not much in the way of a gravity turn. Last two Mainsails almost out. TWR almost one. Ground Control taking bets on if the Mainsails will run out of fuel before or after it gets there.
4:26: We're falling. This is bad. The one guy in Mission Control who bet on this happening is getting very very rich. I notice that I confused Pitch and Heading, or...something. I put Pitch in Roll and Heading in both Heading and Pitch. Well, when you're falling down with rockets still running, you've screwed up big time...so I don't think that changed much.
I notice that the throttle's down. I apparently left on the option to stop us from exceeding terminal velocity, but didn't increase the thrust after that stopped being an issue. Oops. Let's try this again, without doing that.

Relaunching and checking some stats. Initial TWR: 1.01. Nailed it; that was retroactively intentional. Initial mass: ~965 tons. We get torqued over by something weird at first, but recover. I wish I could claim credit, but it was either the SAS or MechJeb, and I'm not sure which. I don't think I activated anything on MechJeb which would have done that...regardless, we continue ascent.
(http://i.imgur.com/nioT3dT.png)
Five bucks says you've never seen a starship that looked quite like that.

1:37. The first pair of Mainsails run dry. TWR down to 1.04. Strangely, despite this above-1 TWR, speed starts to drop. We're still pretty low, though, so I'm worried for the next batch dropping...
1:58. We've dropped under 600 tons. Neat note, and it's nearly exactly at the two-minute mark.
2:30. Over 7,500. Torquing, don't know why. Recovered...then we begin going the other direction. Not the most stable ship. Note to self: Fins not bad idea.
2:54. Second pair dead. TWR a bit over three-quarters.
3:20. With only three engines' gimbal and the reaction of a few wheels, the flopping about is getting harder to control. TWR barely above 0.8. Altitude above 12k, so that's...unbad...MechJeb's ascent suggestions still have me going straight up; is that right?
3:48. MechJeb suddenly decides we should turn. ...Huh. We're past 13k now. We're falling, and the engines turn off. Is there a relation, or did I just happen to hit the x key accidentally? Well...once we start falling, we're not likely to stop.

...Yeah...this is enough for tonight. My next attempt at SSTIPS* ships will involve plasma thrusters or something. Probably not beamed power; if I snag some good generator, the same thing powering the Alcubierre drive can power the thrusters.


Quote from: Cmega3 on March 31, 2014, 10:27:25 pm
For the past few years, something mysterious has been going on in the KSP.

It all began that lonely day. Things had calmed down at the KSC. No visits to the Mün or Minmus, and most of the work was centered on building the New Hope Space Station. As everyone went about their business, trying to find out if Daedalus and Icarus are worth it and should be scrapped, if the Munar Base needs an MPL, and checking up on the brave astronauts of the N.H.S.S., a file appeared on the desk of Dr. Wernher von Kerman, containing direct orders from the Director. It was titled: ERB. Inside, was the basic layout for a new rover, with very curious instructions. Wernher quickly assembled a team of elite scientists and made them swear secrecy.

Work on the ERB begun that very day.

No time left, will finish the story later!
Can't wait to see what'll happen...

Quote from: HugoLuman on March 31, 2014, 10:28:32 pm
ERB? Epic Rap Battle? Kerbals vs Minions?
Doubt it.
I idly wonder if anyone's made a Minions mod for KSP. And also why Minions are so popular.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 10:49:19 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 08:00:57 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 02:38:29 pm
I have returned to playing this game after a long absence, and I'm back to building weird contraptions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The command seat is almost invisible on the top there, but it's there. I've no idea how much dV it has, but I'm entertaining the thought of going to Gilly with it.
Sure looks neat. What is it? What does it do? Are those red things heat radiators or something?
It's a combination deep space probe/single-seat electric scooter. The engine is an AFTER thruster from NFP, and the reactor with the glowing heat radiators is likewise. The AFTER is the only engine the small reactor can fully support, but it's not terribly powerful. Still, good delta-V supply and the acceleration just might be enough to attempt a Gilly landing - which is what I will be doing. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 12:49:05 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2014, 08:00:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on March 31, 2014, 02:13:26 pm
If you don't want to asparagus then go the route of Munshine. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63050-0-23-MUNSHINE-LIFTERS-5-165-tons-to-orbit-including-low-tech-Career-Mode-versions!)
Those sure look staged. I did say I was going for SSTO, right?
My end goal is basically one of those ships you see in all sci-fi which can take off, head to another world, and land without anything but refueling.
There are only two stages. If you want a ssto I would say look at the Cupcake brand ssto's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 07:31:19 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 10:49:19 pm
It's a combination deep space probe/single-seat electric scooter.
Those roles seem...contradictory.

Quote
The engine is an AFTER thruster from NFP, and the reactor with the glowing heat radiators is likewise.
AFTER thruster? Google gets me nothing.
Okay, it gets me lots of stuff, but nothing useful.

Quote from: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 12:49:05 am
There are only two stages. If you want a ssto I would say look at the Cupcake brand ssto's.
I shall!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 01, 2014, 07:34:42 am
The most annoying part of asparagus staging is arranging the seperatrons if things start to explode >.>

E: This is the second thread in a relatively short time where I've missed a notable page number by one post :v
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 01, 2014, 07:45:06 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 01, 2014, 07:34:42 am
The most annoying part of asparagus staging is arranging the seperatrons if things start to explode >.>

If it explodes too often from decoupled parts colliding, it usually means that it's time to take off the offending stages and put them elsewhere. It reduces your explosion risk from 95% to 90%!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 01, 2014, 07:52:54 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 07:31:19 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on March 31, 2014, 10:49:19 pm
It's a combination deep space probe/single-seat electric scooter.
Those roles seem...contradictory.
It's a probe when nobody is piloting it, and a scooter when somebody is piloting it. Perfect for rescuing stranded astronauts in deep space.

Quote
Quote
The engine is an AFTER thruster from NFP, and the reactor with the glowing heat radiators is likewise.
AFTER thruster? Google gets me nothing.
Okay, it gets me lots of stuff, but nothing useful.
That's because it's specific to Near Future Propulsion. It's a Kerbalized NEXT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXT_%28ion_thruster%29) - an Advanced Fairly Trustworthy Electric Rocket engine. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 09:08:46 am
Near Future has cheaty parts in it. Radiators face wherever and solar panels are quantum stockpiled. Radiators are conceptually heat sinks. Face them to the sun and they become heat absorbers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 01, 2014, 12:54:36 pm
Nertea (NFP's author) had implemented rotating radiators at some point, but they were causing problems, so they are back to being rigid - for now.

The "quantum stockpiled" solar panels are a real thing, however. They're called the Thin Film Solar Cells, and are basically superefficient solar-array tissue paper, micrometers thick. The arrays in question are taken from the VASIMR Lunar Tug concept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjFv5V77E1A
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 01, 2014, 03:01:22 pm
The ARM update just came out (like ~20 minutes ago) Go get it!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/274-KSP-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-is-Officially-Released! (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/274-KSP-Asteroid-Redirect-Mission-is-Officially-Released!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 03:08:30 pm
Not a big surprise they'd wait for April 1. 455 mb patch download.

Saves broken. New save for asteroids.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 04:39:05 pm
Did they add/change anything other than the asteroid thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 01, 2014, 04:41:50 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 04:39:05 pm
Did they add/change anything other than the asteroid thing?

Space center warp and new parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 04:50:21 pm
Would you like to emergency dock with a vehicle that does not have docking parts? You can do that now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 01, 2014, 05:05:25 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 01, 2014, 04:42:11 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 04:39:05 pm
Did they add/change anything other than the asteroid thing?
Grabber arms. That can, evidently, be used on kerbals.

They choose who will go and who will stay.

Asteroids are sources of science. Looking forward to the community science dialog getting updated, because currently it's kind of bland.

Now I have to re-install my mods again...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 01, 2014, 05:15:11 pm
First mission to an asteroid - successful!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wasn't a "redirect" mission, more of a "proof that we can get to one of these and back at all" mission, but still! Quite a neat bit of challenge. Also had to use the fairings mod to mount the claw on backwards - so it can act as a landing leg.

Also, the maneuver nodes are now persistent - meaning, they save with the craft - and they also allow to set the number of orbits to skip in a node on a circular orbit - so you can set up your intercept way, way in advance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 07:38:56 pm
Welcome to beta! You don't get asteroids. Start a new game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 01, 2014, 08:36:43 pm
Yay, restart time!
Good thing I was only 4 missions in, I'll roleplAy that we spent all the cash and science upgrading the tracking station or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 01, 2014, 08:56:42 pm
Just tried the asteroid scenario:
1) That craft they set up for it kind of sucks
2) It was going well until I tried to speed up the capture with an aerobrake. Who knew asteroids had so much drag?

EDIT: Woah! I just impacted with Kerbin. The capture craft was pulverized but the asteroid survived! We must apply this property of asteroids somehow...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 01, 2014, 09:10:35 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 01, 2014, 08:36:43 pm
Yay, restart time!
Good thing I was only 4 missions in, I'll roleplAy that we spent all the cash and science upgrading the tracking station or something.
Or just say it burned down and they had to rebuild it. (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/eastern-range-radar-upcoming-launches/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 01, 2014, 09:12:36 pm
This calls for SCIENCE and !!!SCIENCE!!!

Are asteroids in the "parts" files? You might be able to find stuff there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 09:20:10 pm
Yes, asteroids are a part. "PotatoRoid"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 01, 2014, 09:20:24 pm
So, are mods working with ARM?
Would be kinda epic if they are.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 01, 2014, 09:21:41 pm
Some are. Some are not. There's some offsets people have to figure out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 01, 2014, 09:35:09 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on April 01, 2014, 07:12:12 pm
Ummm...
Guys, the game thinks my old save is in sandbox, when it was in career. I was looking forward to finishing the Tech Tree. How can I fix this? I do have a backup.

There was a small 8mb patch that was released just after I downloaded the main update.  make sure you are fully up to date, maybe it is fixed?

If you're using mods, I'm going to guess that all bets are off.  My game was stock, and my career game ported over with no problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 01, 2014, 09:39:33 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 01, 2014, 08:56:42 pm
EDIT: Woah! I just impacted with Kerbin. The capture craft was pulverized but the asteroid survived! We must apply this property of asteroids somehow...

I wonder if you can get science from them after they "land"?  have some meteor recovery missions or somesuch.

Also, wonder if they float.

What it its status in the tracking view?  Landed?  in a very low (0m) orbit of Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 01, 2014, 09:41:37 pm
I used the scenario, so it just put me back at the main menu after I clicked end flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 09:51:33 pm
Quote from: puke on April 01, 2014, 09:39:33 pm
Also, wonder if they float.
I've heard they sink.

Quote
in a very low (0m) orbit of Kerbin?
If it's not floating, it would be more than zero meters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 01, 2014, 09:54:17 pm
Career mode is hard.

Specifically, it's hard when you're incapable of sending a rocket into orbit with anywhere near enough fuel to de-orbit manually and you've already gotten the Mystery Goo[super]TM[/super], crew report and EVA report science for most of the areas you can visit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 01, 2014, 10:18:48 pm
Code: [Select]
Hell, I don't even have to relaunch.
[quote] name = ResearchAndDevelopment
scene = 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
sci = 46.84537[/quote]
and of course.
[quote] Tech
{
id = basicRocketry
state = Available
part = decoupler.ftr.small
part = decoupler.ftr.2M
part = fuelTank
part = fuelTankSmallFlat
part = GooExperiment
part = stackDecoupler[/quote]
Etc.
I can also paste In my completed science reports, My flags, My Hacked Braver Jebediah, Smarter Bill, Dumber less courageous Bob, And I've found where Mission controller puts its data..... However, Things have changed under the hood (mathie-fisik-numbahs thingies) and I've got so many mods I'll just delay updating untill I'm sure they're all compatible.

Meanwhile, I can reveal what I've been working on for the last 2 days.
It's a car! No not a rover, Just a boring old car, nothing special about it, not even a spacecar, a truck actually.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yep, just a truck.
The K35 2 1/2 ton truck Is a marvel of engineering, and well worth the money spent exploding developing Crash testing it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shotgun!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quite comfortable for 3, lots of leg room.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lots of utility, here it's carrying KAS cargo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quite fast actually.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Careful on those corners Jeb!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nice recovery, add stunt driver to your titles there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The launch pad, is NOT a stunt course, yes I know it has ramps, they're not for this D:.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still comfortable, lucky Bob insisted on 7 point harnesses.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Carries big stuff rather well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a drill? I thought we kept the engine in there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Erm, Just in case we need a mobile tracking station? I dunno, It looks cool!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This big drill is awesome.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bill: "I don't think this is such a good idea guys."

A few notes, Tube parts make excellent cabins/windows, and lots of random crap everywhere makes things look more like real machinery. However i made a small mistake during a redesign and half the truck now isn't symmetrical, as a result It's inverted half the flaps on the wings for my aerial version, making it impossible to fly untill I've sorted it out, also I should use kethane as a fuel since, well, it's got a drill and tanks already right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 01, 2014, 11:05:26 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 01, 2014, 09:54:17 pm
Career mode is hard.

Specifically, it's hard when you're incapable of sending a rocket into orbit with anywhere near enough fuel to de-orbit manually and you've already gotten the Mystery Goo[super]TM[/super], crew report and EVA report science for most of the areas you can visit.

Check out some of the career mode and early rocketry tutorials.  Simpler really is better for cheap orbiters with low tech parts.

I was having a really hard time too, until I watched a Scott Manley tutorial and stripped all the extra parts and stages out of my rocket and lightened it up.  And learned how to properly time my gravity turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 02, 2014, 05:11:59 am
Asteroids and grabbers and bigger parts are all well and good...
But MY GAWD, this has improved my framerate by a factor of 3!!!!
My main gaming PC's graphic card went dead, so I use my laptop for KSP, and it was horrible before!
Now it's smooth sailing!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 05:32:10 am
Quote from: ank on April 02, 2014, 05:11:59 am
Asteroids and grabbers and bigger parts are all well and good...
But MY GAWD, this has improved my framerate by a factor of 3!!!!
My main gaming PC's graphic card went dead, so I use my laptop for KSP, and it was horrible before!
Now it's smooth sailing!
Really? I wonder if this would help my overheating laptop.
Speaking of Asteroids and grabbers, I grabbed one!
I needed infinite fuel to move it around though, I learned that I need more RCS or reaction wheels or maybe more Atomic rockets clustered around for major RCS operations.
Was dissapointed that the ground didn't explode when it hit kerbin :'(
But Jeb had fun climbing it.
No screenshots because lazy :/
Haha, Just kidding. No shots of the rocket because these new big rockets are just too easy, stable, and boring Unexplody.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Crazy maneuvering, I wasn't exactly sure what was going on there, but I just went with it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It looks like it it'll get there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
WTF? I'm sure it'll be fine.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Intersect? That means It's close yes?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Much closer!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
now a look at the craft, 8 gigantors power 8 of the new much more powerful Ion thrusters. Also there are 3 nuclear rockets in case we need higher acceleration.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Coming in very gentle. The slowest docking I have ever achieved. Actually My first docking, using the grabber counts right?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Kinda looks like a tick.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Deploy! We're going to need that power to move this rock. To save Kerbin from lumpy potato-like space-threats!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh Hi kerbin.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah, Um, this thing is kinda hard to steer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think It's going to miss?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah ok, I was actually aiming for Kerbin, but this probe was valuable so I'll just use the rock as a heat shield.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Boom, there goes the probe.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
BOOM!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What's this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It had to land on the other side of the world from KSC didn't it?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
JEB! That's cheating, We're not going to let you have a flag for this.

Well that was fun, between catching up with the rock and then Kerbin again I've finally learned how to use maneuver nodes properly. I just need to get the hang of finer maneuvering for rendevous, I'm sure theres an easier way than merely burning In the opposite direction on the navball to whatever offset of you're heading vs the targets heading.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 02, 2014, 06:17:47 am
You know what someone needs to do? Blanket Eve entirely in a thick layer of asteroids till its easy to launch from. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 02, 2014, 08:14:47 am
What exactly happens if you fail to redirect an asteroid and it hits Kerbin? Does anything bad happen at all?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 08:22:23 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2014, 08:14:47 am
What exactly happens if you fail to redirect an asteroid and it hits Kerbin? Does anything bad happen at all?
See the screenshot above with Jeb standing on a big rock, at least that's what happens if one you've captured crashes, I have no idea what happens if one that hasn't been captured hits.
Anyway, I now need to launch a recovery operation to get that back to the space center.
And then.... I dunno.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 02, 2014, 08:24:44 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 08:22:23 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2014, 08:14:47 am
What exactly happens if you fail to redirect an asteroid and it hits Kerbin? Does anything bad happen at all?
See the screenshot above with Jeb standing on a big rock, at least that's what happens if one you've captured crashes, I have no idea what happens if one that hasn't been captured hits.
Anyway, I now need to launch a recovery operation to get that back to the space center.
And then.... I dunno.
Oh. I just scrolled passed the screenshots after the first couple, because I can't see them. Stupid school internet, blocking imgur.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2014, 08:31:20 am
Got my first bit of actual asteroid redirecting done. http://imgur.com/a/aA9MC

Used a few mods, primarily Near Future Propulsion, KAS, and Procedural Fairings because I can't imagine what I would be doing without that interstage adapter. Got a passing Class C into an elliptic orbit of some 6-30K kilometers. Might get another mission out to it to bring it closer. KAS winches turned out to be a fairly poor choice for towing an asteroid. But it was fun. ^_^

I liked this moment particularly.
Spoiler: Asteroid off the port bow! (click to show/hide)
Space immediately feels less empty now that you can actually make your own asteroid thicket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 08:32:31 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2014, 08:31:20 am
Got my first bit of actual asteroid redirecting done. http://imgur.com/a/aA9MC

Used a few mods, primarily Near Future Propulsion, KAS, and Procedural Fairings because I can't imagine what I would be doing without that interstage adapter. Got a passing Class C into an elliptic orbit of some 6-30K kilometers. Might get another mission out to it to bring it closer. KAS winches turned out to be a fairly poor choice for towing an asteroid. But it was fun. ^_^

I liked this moment particularly.
Spoiler: Asteroid off the port bow! (click to show/hide)
Space immediately feels less empty now that you can actually make your own asteroid thicket.
Basically once you grab it it turns into a huge part with infinite durability so it survives impact then rolls around a bit.
Hell yeah, when I finally get my career Integrated into this version I'll eventually make a ring of asteriod habitats around kerbin.... A shame i can't connect them together and make a halo or something. Or space elevator?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 09:34:58 am
In theory? I believe so.

In practice? It probably requires a heck of a lot of fuel.

...Someone needs to make a nice, big ring around Kerbin made of inter-docked asteroids, just to see what would happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:36:51 am
Physics is limited to 2km, which you all seem to have forgotten.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 02, 2014, 10:47:18 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 09:34:58 am
In theory? I believe so.

In practice? It probably requires a heck of a lot of fuel.

...Someone needs to make a nice, big ring around Kerbin made of inter-docked asteroids, just to see what would happen.

Danny tried something like this before. Guess what happened.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 02, 2014, 11:01:53 am
Asteroid on ksc dome
imgur.com/a/XGNKi
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 11:08:40 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 02, 2014, 11:01:53 am
Asteroid on ksc dome
imgur.com/a/XGNKi

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL

The first round of heavy lifters with low new part count. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/74395-0-23-5-Lopac-Lifter-Family-10-520-ton-V0-6-Low-Partcount-Lifters)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on April 02, 2014, 11:49:19 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 02, 2014, 11:01:53 am
Asteroid on ksc dome
imgur.com/a/XGNKi
Does that make it the Dome of the Rock? [/badumtish]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:36:51 am
Physics is limited to 2km, which you all seem to have forgotten.
That's a minor issue. It's the doing, not the being-done.

Quote from: BFEL on April 02, 2014, 10:47:18 am
Danny tried something like this before. Guess what happened.
The "planet-destroyer debris belt"?

Quote from: MaximumZero on April 02, 2014, 11:49:19 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 02, 2014, 11:01:53 am
Asteroid on ksc dome
imgur.com/a/XGNKi
Does that make it the Dome of the Rock? [/badumtish]
...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 02, 2014, 01:23:31 pm
Something very interesting occurred with my old career save.  I wish I had a backup so I could try to repeat this behavior, but it looks like there are the beginnings of an economy partially implemented in the game:

The new parts added in this patch were already unlocked in my existing career mode game, as I had already researched the areas that they belong to.  BUT, when I tried to build rockets with them i found them GREYED OUT and it told me that they had to be PURCHASED from the research building.

When I went to the research building, I found that I could click on the new parts and then purchase them for their listed price.  I didnt actually have any funds displayed anywhere, and there was seemingly no limit to what I was able to buy, so I just bought them all.

I started a fresh clean new career game, and I seemed to automatically unlock all parts as I researched them -- but I have not yet unlocked any of the areas that have the new parts in them so I cant be sure how it works.

Has this happened to anyone else?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 01:35:22 pm
It happened to me right after I installed some new mods.

As far as I can guess, when you unlock techs you unlock all parts in that tech, but you don't automatically get new parts put into those techs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 02, 2014, 01:47:30 pm
@Puke
You gotta go to the research screen, select the node the parts belong to, and unlock the parts individually.


My first asteroid brought into LKO:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am planning to make a huge space station, collecting asteroids.
How many?
All of them!

Ps. God damn Imgur! stop changing the field I need to copy to link images!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 02:50:23 pm
I moved my potato onto one of the helipads on the VAB, I'm not sure what to do with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 03:06:27 pm
Get Hooligan Labs airship parts and take the asteroid on a trip around Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 03:08:57 pm
Rewatching one of Danny's videos gave me an idea.

Would it be possible to create drop pods that, a la 40k space marines, can reliably survive a fall from orbit without using parachutes or winglets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 02, 2014, 03:13:49 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 03:08:57 pm
Rewatching one of Danny's videos gave me an idea.

Would it be possible to create drop pods that, a la 40k space marines, can reliably survive a fall from orbit without using parachutes or winglets?
Well i believe the asteroid can survive the impact, but i think anything attached to it would blow up due to the Extreme G endure during instanteous stop of the vehicule.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 03:50:27 pm
You can use debug to do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 02, 2014, 03:52:21 pm
I bet you could make an intercept vehicle that included several sub-vehicles that detached from the mothership to mount parachute clusters onto an asteroid, and bring it down soft enough to preserve the attached vehicles.

unrelated, I just saw this kickstarter linked from the KSP G+ community.  Probably relevant to your interests, if you're reading this thread:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4gency/habitat-a-thousand-generations-in-orbit

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 04:10:17 pm
$50,000? HAH. Someone is going to run out of money way before finishing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 02, 2014, 05:00:07 pm
BUT DOES IT HAVE FULL 3D FIZZYKS
/internetspeak

To be serious, this game looks awesome.
*Sighs wistfully, daydreaming of impaling enemies with Lady Liberty's spiky head.*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 02, 2014, 05:04:25 pm
I think the real challenge now is to get an asteroid BACK into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 02, 2014, 05:12:02 pm
UPDATE:

Thanks to Scott Manley, I have successfully achieved orbit!
...by copying his exact design, but success is success.

EDIT UPDATE:

-Science JR. Report: check.
-Mystery Goo Reports: already have them, so check(?)
-Crew Report: already have.
-EVA Report: check.
-Landing: check.
-Glitchy terrain: check.
-Jumping to get out of glitchy terrain: check.
-dead Kerbal: check.

i was so close to getting a surface sample ;-;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 02, 2014, 05:42:28 pm
Congratulations!  the first orbit is a great feeling.  Soon you be landing on other worlds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 02, 2014, 05:45:42 pm
NEW UPDATE:
I realized that, due to exploding violently from being ejected, the Science JR. is worthless anyway, so I attached three radial parachutes on top.
Detachment from the main pod results in a 4 m./s fall rate, and impact with the ground by the decoupler allows a cushion, protecting the Science Jr.
I think I might need to make sure that I detach that particular stage while pointing prograde (straight down, as under test conditions) for this to work, but eh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 06:54:50 pm
My asteroid weighs 900 tons and is sitting on the VAB, getting that kind of payload up isn't so hard with the new parts, but moving it down "safely" might be tricky, I'm going to need to make a crane using infernal robotics. Considering I needed 3 days to make a 6 ton tow truck, I'm going to probably need at least a week to make something, maybe a 2000 ton crane that's taller than the VAB?
Something that's been bothering me lately, what's the best part to use as ballast? I know engines and pods are heavy, but I can't find anything compact that's heavy enough to use as counterweights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 02, 2014, 07:19:38 pm
The new booster are extremely powerful.

Had to add a fuel tank to slow rocket down. (Yeah could have used less booster but no)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 02, 2014, 07:24:00 pm
Holy shit, I had not noticed these new OMGWTF huge engines. I made the stupidest, heaviest, most un-aerodynamic piece of crap ever and slapped 4 of the quad engines on it. With a sharp gravity turn, I'm orbiting in a single stage.

EDIT: And there's a new, even bigger Solid Rocket Booster! I had no choice:
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 08:08:13 pm
Lifting almost 500 tons to orbit is easier than ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 02, 2014, 08:10:44 pm
The end of the trip is even better!

Spoiler: ...And returning (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 09:31:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 03:50:27 pm
You can use debug to do it.
But that's cheating!


Hugo, is that Jeb?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:37:03 pm
Do you want to gift KSP to someone that doesn't care about modding? It's currently 40% off on Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 02, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 09:31:41 pm

Hugo, is that Jeb?
Could it be anyone else? :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fikes on April 02, 2014, 10:07:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:37:03 pm
Do you want to gift KSP to someone that doesn't care about modding? It's currently 40% off on Steam.

doesn't care about modding? I had no trouble adding mods to my Steam KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 10:16:30 pm
Quote from: Fikes on April 02, 2014, 10:07:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:37:03 pm
Do you want to gift KSP to someone that doesn't care about modding? It's currently 40% off on Steam.

doesn't care about modding? I had no trouble adding mods to my Steam KSP.

For anyone that has trouble with Steam auto updating games (even after setting it to not update ever) that are heavily mod version specific, KSP is terrible on Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 02, 2014, 10:49:24 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 06:54:50 pm
Something that's been bothering me lately, what's the best part to use as ballast? I know engines and pods are heavy, but I can't find anything compact that's heavy enough to use as counterweights.

upward pointing retro-rockets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 02, 2014, 11:40:10 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 10:16:30 pm
Quote from: Fikes on April 02, 2014, 10:07:36 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 09:37:03 pm
Do you want to gift KSP to someone that doesn't care about modding? It's currently 40% off on Steam.

doesn't care about modding? I had no trouble adding mods to my Steam KSP.

For anyone that has trouble with Steam auto updating games (even after setting it to not update ever) that are heavily mod version specific, KSP is terrible on Steam.
If you're having trouble with KSP on Steam, copy it out of the Steam folder. The game uses no DRM.

Plus I've yet to see a major mod that isn't updated to a new KSP version within the day of the update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2014, 11:54:56 pm
Star Ruler on my account is fudged. Mods there are very version dependent and some update for one version months after a new game version releases. I very deliberately did not transfer my ksp to steam. I don't need steam running in the background and I don't need autoupdates.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 12:30:28 am
Quote from: puke on April 02, 2014, 10:49:24 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 06:54:50 pm
Something that's been bothering me lately, what's the best part to use as ballast? I know engines and pods are heavy, but I can't find anything compact that's heavy enough to use as counterweights.

upward pointing retro-rockets?
Nah they're too light, besides I kinda want non exploding ballast. I guess I could mod something to be heavier I could use part clipping and symmetry to produce weights, or mod something, But I think I'll just stick to using engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 03, 2014, 12:38:06 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 12:30:28 am
Quote from: puke on April 02, 2014, 10:49:24 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 06:54:50 pm
Something that's been bothering me lately, what's the best part to use as ballast? I know engines and pods are heavy, but I can't find anything compact that's heavy enough to use as counterweights.

upward pointing retro-rockets?
Nah they're too light, besides I kinda want non exploding ballast. I guess I could mod something to be heavier I could use part clipping and symmetry to produce weights, or mod something, But I think I'll just stick to using engines.
Asteroids?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 03, 2014, 12:45:01 am
As I said before, best part of this patch is the physics upd00t. Your games will now run faster and with less wibbly-wobbly parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 01:41:28 am
I noticed that my asteroid weighs 800 tons, A real asteroid that big would weigh 45,000 tons, and since kerbin has 10 times the density of earth perhaps my roids should weigh half a million tonnes?
I'm going to see what it takes to move one that big.. I recall XKCD determined i would need more fuel tanks than the rock itself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 03, 2014, 03:55:21 am
Well it seems like I'll have to migrate to the new version, but first...

Spoiler: Let's have some fun (click to show/hide)

I'll probably get to the actual carnage tomorrow. Also, each ship was manually launched and positioned. You can imagine how hard it was getting the Kerov off the ground with FAR installed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on April 03, 2014, 04:49:09 am
Well apparently asteroids can spawn on a impact course with Kerbin.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately for Jeb(And let's be honest, probably any Kerbal that was living nearby), the craft sent to try and defeat it was designed for much smaller asteroids. (and he didn't bring along a drill, a nuke and Bruce Willis to blow it up.)

Spoiler: All that's left of Jeb's ship is the claw (click to show/hide)

Rest in peace Jeb. (I have MissingCrewsRespawn turned off so he won't respawn)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 03, 2014, 05:46:48 am
nogoodnames, that is awesome, but I have to say having FAR installed probably helped, because it actually thins out the atmosphere substantially.

Rilder I just think its epic that the claw survived like that, I'm sure the Kerbals will make many movies commemorating Jeb's sacrifice, and the sheer awesome of the way the ship JUST stopped the asteroid from totally annihilating everything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 03, 2014, 06:26:36 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 03, 2014, 05:46:48 am
but I have to say having FAR installed probably helped, because it actually thins out the atmosphere substantially.

Heh, no. No it does not. Maybe it seems that way when you're using reasonably aerodynamic rockets, but when you've got an absurd amount of drag perched on top of a rocket (granted that was my fault, I should have been smart enough to put the ship in the middle of some boosters, instead of on top of them) things become impossible.

To be clear, the thrust needed to lift the ship was never an issue, it was the immense amount of drag those wings caused which made the whole thing uncontrollable. Doing anything but flying straight up, with SAS and RCS on and with perfectly controlled thrust would result in the rocket flipping over. Literally tapping the pitch or yaw controls would make the launch unsalvageable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 06:29:52 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 02, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 02, 2014, 09:31:41 pm
Hugo, is that Jeb?
Could it be anyone else? :D
Yes.

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 01:41:28 am
I noticed that my asteroid weighs 800 tons, A real asteroid that big would weigh 45,000 tons, and since kerbin has 10 times the density of earth perhaps my roids should weigh half a million tonnes?
Probably for roughly the same reason why Kerbin is a fraction of the size of Earth but has several times the density (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfFun).

Quote
I'm going to see what it takes to move one that big.. I recall XKCD determined i would need more fuel tanks than the rock itself.
I think that was Scott Manley, referring to de-orbiting Gilly and Minmus.

Quote from: BFEL on April 03, 2014, 05:46:48 am
Rilder I just think its epic that the claw survived like that, I'm sure the Kerbals will make many movies commemorating Jeb's sacrifice, and the sheer awesome of the way the ship JUST stopped the asteroid from totally annihilating everything.
Shame that proper asteroid impacts don't do anything. An asteroid landing from extraKerbin orbit right on top of the VAB would just bounce off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 09:44:00 am
I've decided to experiment with the asteroids, despite having never successfully made a rendezvous with anything lacking gravitational pull. Including kerbonauts on EVA who let go of the ladder in freefall.

So. New game, to get asteroids. Lots keep popping up. Here's the first, and not a bad one.

(http://i.imgur.com/BAT1nQV.png)

More keep popping up; I have my eye on one JAL-968, which comes within forty megameters. HSJ-227 is the first encounter, though, and I'll see what I can do with that.

1. Design a craft for rendezvous and moving of an asteroid.

One thing I noticed what that everyone was complaining about how they couldn't turn asteroids easily. The solution?

(http://i.imgur.com/Eo3hHD0.png)

That's a reaction wheel, with a probe body, some RTGs, and a hook attached. It is intended to be gently tossed at an asteroid (via stack separator or something) to help maneuver it. Presumably, all craft stuck on the same asteroid will be controlled as one...at least, I hope that's how it works, because if not some future plans with asteroids1 are going to be tricky.
P.S. I had to rebuild it, but I made subassemblies work!

(http://i.imgur.com/Hl780rY.png)
Now with stack separator!

Alright. Maybe I didn't have to build it, but...eh.
I try to add a humorous, pretty description like the stock parts have, but I don't have enough room for the first sentence. I am sad.

The trick is to build a craft that can take a bunch of these (six sounds good) up to the asteroid, and also have enough Δv to move it.

(http://i.imgur.com/MuKgql9.png)

That should do it! Probably.
I'm thinking maybe I should have put RCS on it, so it could maneuver itself into just the right position, but...eh, not really needed methinks. And mehopes.

I'll work on this more later, when I have time. For now...this will do, pig. This will do.

Footnotes:
1. Like space station cores.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 03, 2014, 10:06:33 am
You'll have lower part counts if you make one big set of reaction wheels. All those klaws are extra parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 11:14:51 am
But then I only have torque from one location. I might as well not even have the things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 03, 2014, 11:19:59 am
In space, it doesn't matter how many points your torque comes from. The turning will always happen around the center of mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 03, 2014, 11:32:36 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 01:41:28 am
I noticed that my asteroid weighs 800 tons, A real asteroid that big would weigh 45,000 tons, and since kerbin has 10 times the density of earth perhaps my roids should weigh half a million tonnes?
I'm going to see what it takes to move one that big.. I recall XKCD determined i would need more fuel tanks than the rock itself.
The gravity of a planet is directly proportional to it's mass. Radius and density are only indirect measures, multiplying them gets the mass (well, m=(radius cubed) * 4 * pi * density / 3, anyway). Kerbin has smaller radius but a much greater density in order to create Earth-like conditions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 03, 2014, 12:15:22 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 11:14:51 am
But then I only have torque from one location. I might as well not even have the things.

SAS is magical. It just has to be on the vehicle somewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 12:15:50 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 03, 2014, 11:19:59 am
In space, it doesn't matter how many points your torque comes from. The turning will always happen around the center of mass.
News to me. I thought the torque originated from the torquing parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 03, 2014, 01:11:06 pm
In my experience, large vessels seem easier to turn with reaction wheels spaced out, but they do seem to turn from the center of mass. The main reason asteroids seem to turn slow is that they're bloody heavy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 02:23:28 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 03, 2014, 01:11:06 pm
In my experience, large vessels seem easier to turn with reaction wheels spaced out...
Oh, so my plan isn't useless. Yay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 03, 2014, 02:36:37 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 03, 2014, 12:30:28 am
Quote from: puke on April 02, 2014, 10:49:24 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 02, 2014, 06:54:50 pm
Something that's been bothering me lately, what's the best part to use as ballast? I know engines and pods are heavy, but I can't find anything compact that's heavy enough to use as counterweights.

upward pointing retro-rockets?
Nah they're too light

Even when you turn them on?  Try using stronger rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 05:37:17 pm
The other day, I rewatched some (most) of Danny's videos, including the ones with the return cannon and the mass relay. I'm thinking...I failed to do anything with Mainsails, but could I manage something with the NASA or KW parts?

First, let's see what the strongest rockets are. I know the Griffon XX (the strongest rocket in KW) has a thrust of 4900, more than triple the Mainsail's 1500. But what about the new parts for asteroid wrangling? The S3 engine cluster has "only" 2500 units of thrust. Griffon it is.

For the first test, I'm shooting straight up. No point in trying to shoot for orbit if I can't move anything above the atmosphere.

(http://i.imgur.com/890bLAY.png)

The little OKTO2 is probably the second-lightest thing I can launch, and at 0.04 tons, it's only a little heavier than a kerbonaut.

A launch is tried. The first attempt is a failure, because I forgot to throttle up before starting. The second failed, but I don't know why. I try a third, activating the engine before separating the probe, and...well, it starts, but it doesn't propel the probe, for reasons which are obvious within seconds of coming in closer.

(http://i.imgur.com/VX0m6lA.png)
Time to go asymmetric, I guess...or I could launch four!
(http://i.imgur.com/QAd615D.png)

Bingo.
I adjust the staging so the probes are dropped before the launch rather than after, and we're ready to go.
On one hand, it works; the probes are launched high.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/lThWHX7.png[/img

On the other hand, not very high; they only reach 2,227 meters. They make it less than a minute before crashing into the ground near the launchpad. Yeah...this is hopeless without some cheaty parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 03, 2014, 06:14:39 pm
But try with some kerbonauts, just to be sure?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 03, 2014, 06:37:13 pm
is this..
a mistake??
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 05:37:17 pm
[img]http://i.imgur.com/lThWHX7.png[/img
FROM THE GREAT GWJESUS??
this is an event i will remember for the rest of my life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 07:23:43 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 03, 2014, 06:37:13 pm
is this..
a mistake??
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 05:37:17 pm
[img]http://i.imgur.com/lThWHX7.png[/img
FROM THE GREAT GWJESUS??
this is an event i will remember for the rest of my life.
...

Quote from: HugoLuman on April 03, 2014, 06:14:39 pm
But try with some kerbonauts, just to be sure?
They're, like, five kilograms lighter. Or maybe 2.5. Something like that. 6%, tops. It's not enough to matter enough to do anything with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 03, 2014, 07:35:34 pm
Guess I'll have to launch EVA kerbalnauts 2.5 km into the atmosphere myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 03, 2014, 08:21:35 pm
Asteroids don't impact majestically.

...Yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 03, 2014, 09:15:52 pm
Antimatter ship building station in progress.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Combination orbital construction dock and interplanetary mod with the help of mechjeb. The new lifters are great for sending up 50,000 rocket parts to refill the station. Antimatter collection arms built on site. The mods aren't entirely updated so after building a craft I usually have to force quit. The button to return to space command does not work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 03, 2014, 11:51:08 pm
Proximity alert! Enemy vessel approaching! All hands to battle stations!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's Firing! BRACE FOR IMPACT!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Direct hit! The explosions can be seen all the way from the Space Center below. No amount of armour could protect against firepower of that magnitude.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Oberon has been torn in half. The secondary bridge was knocked free of the shattered stern and is floating freely amongst the debris. The primary bridge was destroyed completely, killing the captain and first officer. The bow of the ship is relatively intact, including the three man capsule that served as the helm, and even a functioning solar array. The heavy shielding on the main reactor must have protected it, but with no propulsion, it's adrift just the same.

The Archon quickly turns to face the assailant, its crew ready to avenge their fallen comrades. They fire two lazor missiles set for proximity detonation but they both veer wildly off target. The second volley doesn't do much better. So much for the high tech targeting system. Finally the crew resorts to manually firing their Lazors.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hmm... that was much more effective than I anticipated. I don't even know what they could have hit to cause such total destruction. In fact, that attack was so powerful that it crashed the game when I tried to look at the debris.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note to military research division: Next time, we want weapons that destroy the enemy, not ones that open up a portal to the hell dimension so the Kraken can emerge and devour them. Ultimately the end result is the same, but the former seems much more sportsmanlike.


That's all for now. I'll see about doing the fighters later, after I move the Archon away from the debris field so that doesn't happen again.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 04, 2014, 01:24:11 am
Hows that KMP mod coming along?

Because being able to do stuff like nogoodnames with active participants would be awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 04, 2014, 11:57:10 am
Or, better yet, setting up massive space-battles with individual pilots for each fighter. It would be awesome. Some training fights, some copies of FRAPS or something, and then begin a KSP-set war movie. Or something.
With realistic fighters. Ideally, ones designed by the people playing. ("You have $100,000 to design your next fleet and get it into orbit.")
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 04, 2014, 12:20:59 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 04, 2014, 11:57:10 am
("You have $100,000 to design your next fleet and get it into orbit.")

I...would probably just make a bunch of kamikaze drones :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 04, 2014, 12:24:31 pm
The prettiest drives in all of modding.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Someone finally updated the folding warp drive in Interstellar Mod. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-23-KSP-Interstellar-%28Thermal-Helper-Solar-Sail-Impactors-Fusion%29-Version-0-10-3?p=1065830&viewfull=1#post1065830)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 04, 2014, 02:35:10 pm
I'm thinking of making a simple mod by stealing from Kethane. The way it would work is that Asteroids contain a small amount of Slush or something (ideally, it's determined randomly and tied to asteroid size), and then there's a Kethane Melter or something that uses electricity to produce proper Kethane for refinement.

You could use Kethane Melters as an effective bottleneck so that if you want, say, enough fuel to power a Main Sail continuously, you'll need at least four of the things, and if you want to have enough electricity to do that, you might need a lot of solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 04, 2014, 02:48:06 pm
Kethane in asteroids is already being thought about. Hollowing asteroids for storage is being worked on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 04, 2014, 03:01:23 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 04, 2014, 11:57:10 am
Or, better yet, setting up massive space-battles with individual pilots for each fighter. It would be awesome. Some training fights, some copies of FRAPS or something, and then begin a KSP-set war movie. Or something.
With realistic fighters. Ideally, ones designed by the people playing. ("You have $100,000 to design your next fleet and get it into orbit.")
But how many computers could handle both FRAPS and KMP at the same time?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 04, 2014, 04:12:34 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 04, 2014, 01:24:11 am
Hows that KMP mod coming along?

Because being able to do stuff like nogoodnames with active participants would be awesome.

Actually Squad has announced that adding multiplayer with the same functionality as KMP is their top goal now.
They threw out all the other goals to make multiplayer happen, because the KMP mod convinced them that multiplayer is possible to do in a way that makes sense with time warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 04, 2014, 04:13:21 pm
I hate Chatterer so much. I hate LPers that use. It's got this beep that comes in out of nowhere and for no reason except it being on a timer. I keep expecting a voice, an "over", and then the beep. But no. It's just a beep for no reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 04, 2014, 04:26:48 pm
Quote from: ank on April 04, 2014, 04:12:34 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 04, 2014, 01:24:11 am
Hows that KMP mod coming along?

Because being able to do stuff like nogoodnames with active participants would be awesome.

Actually Squad has announced that adding multiplayer with the same functionality as KMP is their top goal now.
They threw out all the other goals to make multiplayer happen, because the KMP mod convinced them that multiplayer is possible to do in a way that makes sense with time warp.

And that's why next version is all about improving career mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 04, 2014, 08:44:40 pm
So I'm trying to work out what would be required to move a realistic weighted asteroid using KSP.
Firstly I've determined that the ION engines are vastly overpowered and use a miniscule amount of power.
From what I can find with google:
Engine:                    :mass        :thrust      :power           : propellant use
PB-ION engine           250Kg        2,000N      8.729 E (1)      0.0485Kg/s
SMART-1                  29Kg         .068N        1200W            0.01611Kg/h
NEXT(2)                   ????          .236N        6900W            ??????
200 Kw VASIMIR(3)    1200Kg       5N           200Kw             5000isp
Mw VASIMIR(4)         1200Kg       ??????      1000KW           2000isp

(1) Power requirement of kerbal technology can be determined by analysis of solar panel output, a Gigantor has an area of approx 14 square meters and produces 18 E/s, with 30% efficiency this comes out to 60 E/s solar output at one KAU(kerbin astronomical unit), This becomes 216,000 E per hour, If we assume that Kerbin receives the same amount of light as Earth which gets approx 1366 Watts (per hour) then approx 11.295 E are worth 1 watt. Therefore a OX-stat produces 238 watts(an unreasonably high number) and a Gigantor produces 5.7 Kilowatts (a realistic number, but considering the calculation was based on this panel then It should definitely be)
(2) I couldn't find data on the mass or the fuel use of the NEXT, however the ISP was around 4200seconds which matches the PB-ION and a simple calculation would tell me the actual fuel usage
(3) An actual working test engine, However using solar panels for this kind of engine is considered unfeasible in real life, AD astra assumes a capability of producing working space capable nuclear reactors in the range of 1 kilogram per watt in order to run this kind of engine, however the soviet TOPAZ reactor had a weight of 100 kilos per watt, NASA were hoping on producing a 65 kilo per watt reactor for Prometheus and Robert Zubrin who seriously doubts the capabilities of VASIMIR, assumes a best case estimate of 20 kilograms per watt being possible. Note that solar panels can easily achieve 2 kilograms per kilowatt using current technology, but they're very expensive, I'm assuming however that mass production for an asteroid capture mission would reduce costs untill they're far below that of a nuclear reactor, also the development time for said reactor might be rather high compared to merely producing panels. Also note that a gigantor weighs 61 kilograms per kilowatt. Finally a note on RTGs(Radioisotope
Thermoelectric Generators) the RTG recently sent to mars on a rover weighs 45 kilograms and produces 110 watts, which is 409 kilos per watt, And the PB-NUK produces 239 watts and weighs 80 kg which equates to 334.7 kilos per watt
(4) The data I can find for the megawatt VASIMIR is terribly conflicting and doesn't match up with the observed capabilities of the 200 KW VASIMIR, particularly annoying is the paper titled"The VASIMR Engine: Project Status and
Recent Accomplishments" which lists the 1 MW engine as having a total weight 1.2 MT. Which either means 1200 Tonnes or 1.2 Metric tons. Considering the 200KW test engine weighed this much it might be reasonable that a newer model weighs 20% as much due to attention being paid to actually lightening the design, once again i couldn't find any data on the actual power output, but i would have to assume it is 5 times the 200KW model.

What do I make of all this? Firstly the PB-ION is 3411 lighter than a Smart-1 engine, and 2000 times lighter than a VASIMIR engine. It also only requires 2.7 KW electricity but for that thrust level should actually require  35,000-80,000 KW, propellant use hasn't yet been taken into consideration, but a 2000N rocket should use 0.131 kg/s propellant which is 2.7 times as much fuel (actually not too far off reality) Add to this the fact that Kerbal asteroids are 2% the weight of real asteroids and then you have a small problem.
I shall have to produce a rebalanced ION engine perhaps:
PB-ION engine 10,000 kg 100N 1764 kW 5536 E/s 0.00658kg xenon per second.
Note: Weighs 40 times as much as the stock ION, or double what a hypothetical VASIMIR would, produces 1/20th as much power, requires 634 times as much power or 307 Gigantor panels, and requires 1/7th as much xenon.
I'm going to need that part welding mod so my computer doesn't melt from the solar panels alone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 04, 2014, 09:34:49 pm
Quote from: ank on April 04, 2014, 04:12:34 pm
They threw out all the other goals to make multiplayer happen, because the KMP mod convinced them that multiplayer is possible to do in a way that makes sense with time warp.
I'm interested to hear what KMP's solution is.

Re: MarcAFK: Making things make sense:
Remember, physics in KSP are a bit borked. The planets are smaller but denser, and the rockets usually have lower ISPs (or so I've heard) than real rockets. It's...kinda tough to try and draw conclusions with that. Squad seems to be focusing on balance and fun more than realism.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 04, 2014, 09:43:18 pm
Oh I understand that, I just want to see what It takes to actually move a rock using real rockets :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 04, 2014, 10:08:23 pm
I finally got around to getting this patch. This is amazing. Guys.

I can look at water without the game shitting its pants from lag. My flag is stickered on stuff. Framerate and physics are better in general. My body is ready.

Now I just need to pull a massive asteroid into the ksc and acheive Armogeddon.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on April 04, 2014, 10:19:31 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on April 04, 2014, 10:08:23 pm
I finally got around to getting this patch. This is amazing. Guys.

I can look at water without the game shitting its pants from lag. My flag is stickered on stuff. Framerate and physics are better in general. My body is ready.

Now I just need to pull a massive asteroid into the ksc and acheive Armogeddon.
As has been said, the real problem isn't bringing an asteroid down.  The REAL trick, is getting it back up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 04, 2014, 11:58:41 pm
There is a pet rock challenge on the official forums. Stock parts only.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 05, 2014, 01:44:17 am
Well I would post the conclusion to my space battle, but it's become too glitchy to carry on. The Lazor mod probably has something to do with it. I like it because it has a good airplane autopilot as well as some unique features, but it can be buggy at times, especially since it extends the object load range. Deleting all the debris might help, but the Kessler syndrome is half the fun. Plus there are about 300 individual pieces of debris by now and I'm too lazy to go through and delete them one by one.

I may try something like this again in the new version, put these upgraded physics everyone is talking about to the test.

Quote from: BFEL on April 04, 2014, 01:24:11 am
Hows that KMP mod coming along?

Because being able to do stuff like nogoodnames with active participants would be awesome.

I'd like to see that happen, but it's hard enough to hit a stationary target. I can hardly imagine how difficult it would be to hit a reasonably maneuverable craft that's actively evading you. Anything larger than a fighter would be basically nonviable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 06:26:58 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 04, 2014, 09:43:18 pm
Oh I understand that, I just want to see what It takes to actually move a rock using real rockets :P
I'm sure Randall Munroe would be willing to answer that question and take it to extremes.

Quote from: IronTomato on April 04, 2014, 10:08:23 pm
I finally got around to getting this patch. This is amazing. Guys.

I can look at water without the game shitting its pants from lag. My flag is stickered on stuff. Framerate and physics are better in general. My body is ready.

Now I just need to pull a massive asteroid into the ksc and acheive Armogeddon.
You know it won't do anything, right?

Quote from: nogoodnames on April 05, 2014, 01:44:17 am
Plus there are about 300 individual pieces of debris by now and I'm too lazy to go through and delete them one by one.
I think there's an option for max debris somewhere. Set it to zero, and no more debris.

Quote
I'd like to see that happen, but it's hard enough to hit a stationary target. I can hardly imagine how difficult it would be to hit a reasonably maneuverable craft that's actively evading you. Anything larger than a fighter would be basically nonviable.
You could always try homing missiles (e.g, add probe bodies and some kind of maneuvering system).
Or use lasers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 05, 2014, 08:10:41 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 05, 2014, 01:44:17 am
I'd like to see that happen, but it's hard enough to hit a stationary target. I can hardly imagine how difficult it would be to hit a reasonably maneuverable craft that's actively evading you. Anything larger than a fighter would be basically nonviable.

The answer, of course, is to download Interstellar and put warp drive on your torpedoes :P


NOTE: Hilariously, if you use interstellar and crash into a planet while at warp, your capsule (I was using Mk2) tends to survive, and despite the warp drive itself no longer being attached, CONTINUES to fly at warp speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 05, 2014, 10:29:22 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 06:26:58 am
You know it won't do anything, right?
I've been told that already. I just think it would be Fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on April 05, 2014, 12:05:18 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 06:26:58 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 04, 2014, 09:43:18 pm
Oh I understand that, I just want to see what It takes to actually move a rock using real rockets :P
I'm sure Randall Munroe would be willing to answer that question and take it to extremes.
But what if we used more power?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 03:59:30 pm
Quote from: dragnar on April 05, 2014, 12:05:18 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 06:26:58 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 04, 2014, 09:43:18 pm
Oh I understand that, I just want to see what It takes to actually move a rock using real rockets :P
I'm sure Randall Munroe would be willing to answer that question and take it to extremes.
But what if we used more power?
Some interesting physical effects would destroy it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 05, 2014, 05:33:10 pm
I decided to try out the extraplanetary launchpad mod. The first thing I did was send a very basic space dock (just the orbital construction dock and a couple spaceship part canisters) into orbit and try to make a tiny probe. The construction bar didn't go up even after some time in time acceleration, but after some fiddling around I found out that the construction would only take place if a kerbal went on EVA. Here's the weird part: it had to be that specific kerbal that left the station. It's not like he was out building the probe because if no one was in the station, or if one kerbal was outside but not that specific one, construction wouldn't continue. Anyone know what's going on? The mod doesn't seem very well documented.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 05, 2014, 09:39:55 pm
Extraplanetary Launchpad needs Kerbals inside the verhicle. Lots of them. Lots of smart ones. If you don't have that setup you're boned. Even with a big smart crew it is still slow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 05, 2014, 10:01:07 pm
That's not the problem I was having, I had to take a kerbal out to get any progress done at all. Then again, looking back at his profile reveals he had max stupidity. Are you saying he was so dumb that he was able to completely cancel out the work from the other two kerbals? Is that a feature?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 05, 2014, 10:10:15 pm
I have never put a max stupidity Kerbal in EL before, so could be. I know there some mechanic for middle-ish stupidity combined with courage. I would say don't put stupid Kerbals in charge of ship construction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 06, 2014, 12:42:55 am
*looks at his kerbals*
When I eventually add Extraplanetary Launchpads after I restart with ARM so I can have an asteroid base I'll need to remember to keep BOB away from the Construction Vehicle .
Bill however is a great candidate for the job.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 01:27:53 am
Oh god, what am I doing? *Nogoodnames has claimed a spacecraft hangar*

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I hope I can figure out how to remove those glitchy engines. It would suck to go this far and be denied completion due to a bug.

Edit: Okay, going into the craft file and deleting everything to do with the engines just caused some very bad things to happen, and I don't think it was my fault because the same things happened when I tried deleting the parts manually. I'm starting to get worried.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 06, 2014, 02:03:28 am
I'm trying to figure out why the red dwarf theme popped into my head.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 02:16:39 am
Phew, figured it out. It was the links between the glitchy parts which weren't deleting properly, so I had to manually delete them. Luckily the engines were mostly on their own so I only had to find the fuel tank they were attached to and remove its links. I wish I knew what caused it. Of course when you start pushing the system to its limits things are bound to break, but I'm worried it may have been one of my mods. Kerbal attachment system seems like the only plausible culprit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on April 06, 2014, 02:20:31 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 05, 2014, 06:26:58 am
I'd like to see that happen, but it's hard enough to hit a stationary target. I can hardly imagine how difficult it would be to hit a reasonably maneuverable craft that's actively evading you. Anything larger than a fighter would be basically nonviable.
You could always try homing missiles (e.g, add probe bodies and some kind of maneuvering system).
Or use lasers.
[/quote]

Thought we were in the Aurora topic for a second with this..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 06, 2014, 06:41:26 am
Is that based on something, or an original creation?
It looks good anyway, also now that you mention red dwarf, I wonder if I coukd make a working starbug? Is there an easy way to recolour stock parts? I'm hoping that I coukd merely open the model file for structural panels and so forth and merely change some hex to get a nice red or green.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on April 06, 2014, 07:15:47 am
I find the mechanical claw from the ARM update very useful for removing space debris from low Kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:36:23 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 01:27:53 am
Oh god, what am I doing? *Nogoodnames has claimed a spacecraft hangar*

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I hope I can figure out how to remove those glitchy engines. It would suck to go this far and be denied completion due to a bug.
...What were you trying to make, again?


Anyways. I've been planning more things for my LP, and I was wondering if there was an easier way to hack craft to other worlds than just turning on infinite fuel, maybe hacking gravity, and powering towards the place in question.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 06, 2014, 09:01:27 am
There is hyper edit http://kerbalspaceport.com/hyperedit

To the guy wanting colours: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50008-0-23-KerbPaint-Paint-layering-for-parts-(September-23rd)-(Same-Old-Still-Works!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 06, 2014, 09:42:56 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 06, 2014, 09:01:27 am
There is hyper edit http://kerbalspaceport.com/hyperedit

To the guy wanting colours: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50008-0-23-KerbPaint-Paint-layering-for-parts-(September-23rd)-(Same-Old-Still-Works!)

Hyperedit will land a craft very gently on the surface of a body. It's best if used to first orbit kerbin, then your target body soi, then land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 11:26:31 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 06, 2014, 09:01:27 am
There is hyper edit http://kerbalspaceport.com/hyperedit
I clicked "Download".
Quote from: Kerbal Spaceport
File does not exist. Make sure you specified correct file name.
...
I'll see if I can find it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 06, 2014, 11:36:50 am
http://www.kerbaltekaerospace.com/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 11:40:11 am
Indeed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 12:10:11 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 06, 2014, 06:41:26 am
Is that based on something, or an original creation?
Completely original.

Quote
...What were you trying to make, again?
Some kind of battleship/carrier hybrid apparently. I'm using only stock parts and I intend to be able to launch this thing to orbit with a few boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 12:13:27 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 01:27:53 am
Oh god, what am I doing? *Nogoodnames has claimed a spacecraft hangar*

-snip-
You dont need that many engines... Nowhere near that many.
Not in space atleast. Half that many would be more than enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on April 06, 2014, 12:22:40 pm
So I am by no means an expert at this game...and I am running through career mode and I was rather happy with myself to get a probe up to the mun and back with lots of fuel to spare using fairly early parts....only to have it land on a slope, fall over, and explode (just the probe naturally...) with well over 100 science points in it...fml

On the brightside...no deaths
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 12:35:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 12:13:27 pm
You dont need that many engines... Nowhere near that many.
Not in space atleast. Half that many would be more than enough.

I trimmed it back to 18 atomic engines and then one 3.75m one for time critical maneuvers after fixing the glitch.

Consider that this thing so far has a mass of 1688 tonnes when fully fueled and I'm not done with it yet. I don't know the TWR but if I want to get anywhere in a timely manner then I'm going to need a lot of engines. Besides, the engines make up such a small percentage of the actual mass that I'm not really hurting anything by having more of them than absolutely necessary.

Edit: Whoops, added a 1 there. The finished craft still has a mass of over 800 tonnes, so the point stands.

And here it is, in all its glory:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I just need to figure out how to get it off the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 03:44:26 pm
Shove a new engine and tank on the back, point up in the hangar, add many launch clamps, turn off gravity and fuel use and launch.

Then turn everything on later.


Tell me, have you been watching Macy Dean?
And is it stock?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 04:00:00 pm
I intend to launch it legitimately if at all possible, and I believe it is. It handles remarkably well on its own in the atmosphere with hacked gravity, getting up to 150m/s before becoming unstable.

Yes, that space battle I set up recently made me go back and rewatch Macey's videos, and that in turn inspired me to make this ship. I even co-opted a few of his designs for it.

And yes, I only used stock parts. I'll have to add some radiators before I launch it so the solar panels don't overheat thanks to Interstellar, but I'll keep everything else vanilla.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 04:25:54 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 12:13:27 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 01:27:53 am
Oh god, what am I doing? *Nogoodnames has claimed a spacecraft hangar*

-snip-
You dont need that many engines... Nowhere near that many.
Not in space atleast. Half that many would be more than enough.
Depends on if you prioritize thrust above or below weight and sanity.


Anyways. In general, you should have a total booster size about the size of the payload, unless you really kn ow what you're doing. I think. So, try adding a ton of giant Rockomax boosters. Or use a couple Jumbo fuel tanks with Mainsails as boosters. Either way, struts are your friend (and will even detach utomatically with staging!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 04:48:25 pm
And if you are using the new version (asteroids) than use the S3 KS-12x4 clusters for it.
They are brilliant.


In other news, my giant ship crashed the game while building...
Gaah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 06, 2014, 05:08:55 pm
So people were talking about Macey Dean, so I googled it, and ended up watching a bunch of his videos. I just finished with The Battle for Laythe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzqBXKXch6c). And honestly, my mind is blown.

That stuff pulls off hard sci-fi space opera so well that I can't even describe it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 05:14:14 pm
Yup. Macey's what really got me into KSP. Shame he never got past there in the story.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 06:09:29 pm
I think he went to the hospital for a while or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 06:30:41 pm
I started up a new save, then quit without doing anything so I could restart my computer (so I could use Lightshot), then after a while I started KSP back up and discovered that clicking "Resume Saved" did nothing.

...What the hell?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 06:33:23 pm
I love the new parts.
The surprise class (what book is it from! No google usage!) is doing quite well excepting for dealing with initial stability, and that is getting fixed with fins.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 07:19:43 pm
Holy hell, it's working.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those new engines are magnificent, but even with their incredible thrust it took 12 of them and some help from the ship's main engine to lift this beast. The launch mass is a whopping 3930 tonnes, and is comprised of 1148 parts. And as a bonus, the whole thing could easily be a SSTO with some careful piloting.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now I just have to do it all again with the real launch. This was only a test.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 07:22:57 pm
How was it only a test?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 07:31:54 pm
I still need to add the radiators and put 19 kerbals in their proper seats. I didn't want to do that every time while I was testing designs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 07:41:08 pm
Radiators?

For the kerbals, just send them up is fuel ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 07:51:25 pm
I wanted to keep the ship and launcher as stock but I have ksp Interstellar installed so solar panels will overheat and shut down if there are none of the mod's radiators. It's too late now anyway, I reverted the flight. It wasn't in a very nice orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:05:52 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 06:30:41 pm
I started up a new save, then quit without doing anything so I could restart my computer (so I could use Lightshot), then after a while I started KSP back up and discovered that clicking "Resume Saved" did nothing.

...What the hell?
Anyone tech-savvy enough to guess what the hell happened?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 08:10:42 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 07:51:25 pm
I wanted to keep the ship and launcher as stock but I have ksp Interstellar installed so solar panels will overheat and shut down if there are none of the mod's radiators. It's too late now anyway, I reverted the flight. It wasn't in a very nice orbit.
Perhaps with KAS you can just bolt some on?

Or do you have a spare docking port that you can dock a "radiator ship" to?


Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:05:52 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 06:30:41 pm
I started up a new save, then quit without doing anything so I could restart my computer (so I could use Lightshot), then after a while I started KSP back up and discovered that clicking "Resume Saved" did nothing.

...What the hell?
Anyone tech-savvy enough to guess what the hell happened?
Not a clue. Perhaps it just decided it wasent actually done.


In other news, the Surprise is having... Launch issues. I added a engine block to the top to prevent the wriggles, but its still not working right.
Anyone know a fast place to shove images that I dont have to sign up for, or shall I just use Dropbox?

-Dang nabbit ninja-




-Eventual Edit-
I decided to just go with Dropbox, so have fun looking. Its all stock and some B9, mostly because there arent enough adapters for the big parts.
https://www.dropbox.com/home/Surprise%20Class
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
No, it's not that I can't load that save.
I click "Resume Saved" and nothing happens. I can't load ANY saves!

Quote from: Aseaheru on April 06, 2014, 08:10:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:05:52 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 06:30:41 pm
I started up a new save, then quit without doing anything so I could restart my computer (so I could use Lightshot), then after a while I started KSP back up and discovered that clicking "Resume Saved" did nothing.
...What the hell?
Anyone tech-savvy enough to guess what the hell happened?
Not a clue. Perhaps it just decided it wasent actually done.
I doubt it. I've had similar problems (one screen later), and anyways there's never been much of a delay in that part. Usually, the delay is once I've opened the menu, selected a save, and am loading it.
Still, let's try it...Nope. The option is flickering like it's been selected, the it goes back to normal. Nothing. Goddammit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 09:02:03 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
No, it's not that I can't load that save.
I click "Resume Saved" and nothing happens. I can't load ANY saves!
Ohhhh... Have you looked in the saves folder? Is anything there?


Anyway, the complete battleship is finally in orbit and ready to refuel and receive its complement of fighters. Unfortunately, due to some problem with the armour, the anti-capital torpedoes can't be used effectively. Probably wouldn't have used them anyway, the ship is far too unwieldy to aim.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love how it looks in space. Once it's fueled, it should have enough delta-v to reach just about anywhere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 09:44:35 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 09:02:03 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
No, it's not that I can't load that save.
I click "Resume Saved" and nothing happens. I can't load ANY saves!
Ohhhh... Have you looked in the saves folder? Is anything there?
Yes, and if there weren't, clicking Resume Saved would have still done something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 10:12:45 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 09:44:35 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 09:02:03 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
No, it's not that I can't load that save.
I click "Resume Saved" and nothing happens. I can't load ANY saves!
Ohhhh... Have you looked in the saves folder? Is anything there?
Yes, and if there weren't, clicking Resume Saved would have still done something.
Restarting the game doesn't do anything? I think something like this happened to me once, but I don't remember how I fixed it. You may need to redownload the game. Are you using the Steam version or the standalone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 12:07:41 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 09:44:35 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 09:02:03 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 06, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
Well, if you didn't do anything then the game may not have created any save data to load from. It's easy enough to make a new save so no harm done.
No, it's not that I can't load that save.
I click "Resume Saved" and nothing happens. I can't load ANY saves!
Ohhhh... Have you looked in the saves folder? Is anything there?
Yes, and if there weren't, clicking Resume Saved would have still done something.
Well, going by the old Russian saying a-la "driving a wedge out with a wedge", have you tried repeating what caused this in the first place? Start a new game, then actually save, and quit, and see if that doesn't reset whatever got broken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 03:12:35 am
Did you uninstall or alter any mods since you last loaded that save?
You had problems earlier with mechjeb so I was wondering...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 03:45:37 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 03:12:35 am
Did you uninstall or alter any mods since you last loaded that save?
You had problems earlier with mechjeb so I was wondering...
Incompatible mods only affect the save after it's been loaded, and incompatible-version saves are probably just not displayed or greyed out. His problem is that clicking the "Resume game" button does nothing, when it should have brought up a list of available savegames, even if there are no saved games to pick from - it'd be just an empty list with a "close" button, but he's not getting that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 07:18:57 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 06, 2014, 10:12:45 pm
Restarting the game doesn't do anything?
First thing I tried.

Quote
I think something like this happened to me once, but I don't remember how I fixed it. You may need to redownload the game. Are you using the Steam version or the standalone?
Steam.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 12:07:41 am
Well, going by the old Russian saying a-la "driving a wedge out with a wedge", have you tried repeating what caused this in the first place? Start a new game, then actually save, and quit, and see if that doesn't reset whatever got broken.
1. How many technical problems do Russian proverbs help with?
2. No, that didn't seem to do much. Sadly.
3. Why can't you load crew into the crew chairs? And how are you supposed to control rovers?

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 03:12:35 am
Did you uninstall or alter any mods since you last loaded that save?
You had problems earlier with mechjeb so I was wondering...
No. I would have mentioned that.
And thankfully, the MechJeb problems were solved by uninstalling the old version and replacing it with a newer one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 07:21:46 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 07:18:57 am
1. How many technical problems do Russian proverbs help with?
2. No, that didn't seem to do much. Sadly.
3. Why can't you load crew into the crew chairs? And how are you supposed to control rovers?
See if removing the saves from the save folder will make the "Resume game" button work. If it does, add saves back one by one until it doesn't work again. If it still doesn't when there are no saves, then the saves are probably fine, and the best solution is to reinstall the whole game. Just back the saves up first.

Also.
1. It varies. It hardly helps to dunk an accidentally washed cellphone into more water, for one. But sometimes it does, surprisingly, help.
3. Crew chairs are odd, and you control rovers with the WSAD keys on the default scheme, though I always remap it to the numpad. For the chairs I usually either tack on a crew capsule of some kind, or add a probe core and drive the craft away, then spawn another, piloted "bus" with the pilot(s).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 07:47:22 am
I was hoping to modify command seats so crew would spawn on them, but was unsuccessful, I had the crew interface showing the space, And I could shove crew onto them, but launching the craft always left me with empty chairs. I just just put a jr docking port behind the rover which I attach a capsule to for the lucky driver, or for  vastly larger craft you could shove cupolas, lander cans, or hitchhiker thingies. Pay attention to the default direction the probe core faces, if you flip it around you might find yourself driving backwards.  I'm starting to build up a collection of parked vehicles outside my hanger, also I noticed how powerful the new ion engines are, I've built some fairly fast drones which only have a single engine. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 08:06:45 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 07:21:46 am
See if removing the saves from the save folder will make the "Resume game" button work. If it does, add saves back one by one until it doesn't work again. If it still doesn't when there are no saves, then the saves are probably fine, and the best solution is to reinstall the whole game. Just back the saves up first.
Removing the saves seems to work! Yay!

Quote
3. Crew chairs are odd, and you control rovers with the WSAD keys on the default scheme, though I always remap it to the numpad. For the chairs I usually either tack on a crew capsule of some kind, or add a probe core and drive the craft away, then spawn another, piloted "bus" with the pilot(s).
Huh. Didn't seem to be working when I tried that.
Yeah, that's roughly what I did.


EDIT: Back to business as usual. I made a potentially SSTO fighter (sans ammo), and discovered one flaw: Its twin atomic engine system provided over 5,500 m/s of Δv, but had a TWR of only 0.46.
Time to redesign things. Completely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rabid_Cog on April 07, 2014, 01:04:59 pm
Just strap solid boosters to it. I mean, that's what they are for after all. Cheap thrust. Think of it as a first stage assist, the way SABOT rounds work for tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 01:44:41 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 08:06:45 am
SSTO
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 01:58:02 pm
Quote from: Rabid_Cog on April 07, 2014, 01:04:59 pm
Just strap solid boosters to it. I mean, that's what they are for after all. Cheap thrust. Think of it as a first stage assist, the way SABOT rounds work for tanks.
>first stage assist for tanks
>what

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rabid_Cog on April 07, 2014, 02:35:01 pm
Yeah, like that, see? Proof that anything can be made better through the application of solid fuel rockets.

No but seriously, I meant for their rounds. The initial stage just lets it sit snug in the barrel or something. It gets discarded as soon as the round leaves the barrel.

SSTO is really hard. Personally, I wouldn't call cheating on a few detachable solid boosters. They are comparatively cheap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 07, 2014, 02:37:05 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 01:58:02 pm
SABOT for tanks.

what

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 02:48:56 pm
Quote from: Rabid_Cog on April 07, 2014, 02:35:01 pm
No but seriously, I meant for their rounds. The initial stage just lets it sit snug in the barrel or something. It gets discarded as soon as the round leaves the barrel.
You mean for the armament? I find Macey's basic Oscar-B torpedoes to be pretty good and simple, and I'm not sending them up loaded anyways.

Quote
SSTO is really hard.
...I don't understand what your point is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 03:11:23 pm
I'm not really sure what you're making an SSTO for with over 5500m/s dV.

But if you REALLY want a powerful engine setup for space, you could try the Near Future Propulsion mod. The TWR numbers on most anything in it aren't great considering you need to pack some serious electric storage and generation for it all to work, but if you have a relatively lightweight fighter (0.49 TWR on 120kN of thrust?) then losing the heavy NERVAs and regular fuel can make it lightweight enough for installing an MPD thruster with some fuel and capacitors to enable it to make short bursts of decent acceleration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 03:17:48 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 03:11:23 pm
I'm not really sure what you're making an SSTO for with over 5500m/s dV.
Okay, I honestly don't understand this one.

Quote
But if you REALLY want a powerful engine setup for space, you could try the Near Future Propulsion mod. The TWR numbers on most anything in it aren't great considering you need to pack some serious electric storage and generation for it all to work, but if you have a relatively lightweight fighter (0.49 TWR on 120kN of thrust?) then losing the heavy NERVAs and regular fuel can make it lightweight enough for installing an MPD thruster with some fuel and capacitors to enable it to make short bursts of decent acceleration.
Aren't those theoretically like the existing atomic rockets?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 07, 2014, 03:33:42 pm
Lots of dv is fine in a SSTO but if you're ever in atmosphere or high gravity you need high TWR much more. If you can't lift off the surface then all the dv in the world won't help you. The nuclear rockets are very heavy and I can't say I've ever seen them used in a SSTO successfully.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 07, 2014, 03:49:28 pm
I thought you meant 5500m/s dV post-ascent. The delta-V provided by NERVAs doesn't mean much if you're using them in atmosphere.

I just made an SSTO (well, an SSTSO, technically - I didn't bring so much as a solar panel along, so couldn't fully circularize just on batteries and capacitors) using two RAPIERs and a cluster of four MPDTs, with some extensive battery backing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Very respectable 3.something TWR on takeoff, and a very respectable 4800-something dV once in space, of course provided some means to generate electricity, which I didn't bring along, in my infinite wisdom. Space-mode TWR of .89 (I think), quite decent for short bursts of acceleration, and the battery storage plus capacitors allows for about 35 seconds of sustained maximum acceleration. Batteries alone provide around 12 seconds, for quick renewable bursts (capacitors charge rather slowly, and need action groups set up to avoid lots of menu clicking).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 07, 2014, 05:01:13 pm
was doing my complex mission to date, with thre launches (lab, tank, lander) aimed to exploit all minmus biomes in one go then suddenly

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I realized I brought mono propellant instead of mystery goo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 07, 2014, 05:15:53 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 07, 2014, 05:01:13 pm
was doing my complex mission to date, with thre launches (lab, tank, lander) aimed to exploit all minmus biomes in one go then suddenly

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I realized I brought mono propellant instead of mystery goo.

haha... I didn't use the lab, but I built a super complicated heavy lift vehicle with a tranist stage that delivered nine (9!) mini-landers to minmus.  Did all the biomes in one trip.  Well, actually I missed one, screwed up the landing and hit one biome twice.

And I cant really say I did it all in one trip, I probably had upwards of twenty failed launches trying to get the ship constructed right, and heaved into orbit.  And when I finally got it there, the transit stage was stuck in Minmus orbit after the mini-landers had gone home so I had to send a rescue craft after it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 07, 2014, 06:13:00 pm
So after some looking at numbers I discovered that the new KR-2L has the highest thrust/weight ratio of any liquid engine at 384.6153846. It only weighs 0.5 more than a Mainsail but has 2500 power and 380 vacuum ISP compared to the Mainsail's 1500 power and 330 vacuum ISP. It has the same 280 sea level ISP as the Mainsail.


The new fuel storage is worse than the old. It has 79.02439024 fuel/mass and 648 fuel/dry mass compared to the standard 80 and 720.

What does this madness actually mean?


Well, I put two Rockomax 64 tanks staged lineary (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/49437-Linear-Staging-Going-Beyond-Asparagus) on a KR-2L...
(http://i.imgur.com/Tw0JdRps.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Tw0JdRp.png)

And launched it...
(http://i.imgur.com/jOMfNKSs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/jOMfNKS.png)

A few times.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z6IaRDJs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Z6IaRDJ.png)(http://i.imgur.com/i1ggnA8s.png) (http://i.imgur.com/i1ggnA8.png)(http://i.imgur.com/YOvLZcUs.png) (http://i.imgur.com/YOvLZcU.png)


It's not the most fuel efficient design but it looks like it can direct ascent to anywhere in the solar system if planned and piloted properly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 07, 2014, 06:45:58 pm
Any mod that overlay biome on a planet?

I know this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55832-PLUGIN-PARTS-WIP-SCANsat-terrain-mapping

But as far as I can tell it shows biomes on a map window.

I'd like a mod that have satellite scanning that then allows you to see the biome under your cursor when pointing to a planet place that has been scanned.

Any idea?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on April 07, 2014, 06:57:34 pm
it needs to be a feature...would help give satellites a use if they showed some sort of info...also it would be nice and reasonable if they gave like 1 science per orbit or something for a science trickle...both features could be added with a camera (or multiple cameras) to enable such things...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 07, 2014, 07:12:26 pm
Just thinking here, because I guess I'd rather not be doing my job today...

Has any one used maneuver nodes for landings?  I always waste fuel on the way down, burning too early or too much.  If I could just determine the proper moment to apply thrust, and the correct amount, I could land with much less fuel wasted!

This might only work in the absence of atmosphere, but when there is atmosphere then I'm probably not going to be landing on jets anyway.

I guess a caveat might be that you would have to target a flat enough spot that when the planetoid rotates your maneuver node will be at the same elevation as when you placed it.  So this may only work on minmus flats.

On a related note, as anyone modded in Pathfinder style airbags?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 07:25:22 pm
"The goo is silent..."

EDIT:
 Wooo 28 minute video from danny? It must be christmas.
I think I saw airbags ages ago, also a corollary to your question, how effective are maneuver nodes for rendezvous? My asteroid adventure finally taught me how to use nodes sufficiently for orbital transfer, but I failed to manage rendezvous using anything more advanced than simply alternatively burning retrograde and or towards target.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 07:35:13 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 07, 2014, 06:10:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0JtdvVJ_mU

Danny, back with more physics abuse!
You know it'll be good when he turns a kerbal into an eldritch abomination in the introduction!

Quite possibly my favorite part:
(http://i.imgur.com/bgAfn3V.png)

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 07:25:22 pm
EDIT:
 Wooo 28 minute video from danny? It must be christmas.
Wasn't the Christmas special less than two minutes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 07, 2014, 07:57:43 pm
Quote from: puke on April 07, 2014, 07:12:26 pm


On a related note, as anyone modded in Pathfinder style airbags?
Someone did, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 07:59:12 pm
Now KSP won't work at all. It loads, then closes. I'll try just removing it and reinstalling it from Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 08:39:37 pm
I deleted and redownloaded KSP, then copied over the old Game Data so I kept my mods.

(http://i.imgur.com/m69nFDk.png)
...
What.

I may just redownload all my mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 08:59:18 pm
What, I don't even...
Looks like corrupted video something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 07, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
Try moving or deleting the main KSP folder, downloading the whole thing and running it without any changes. Should be in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program.

If that doesn't work then your video card is probably about to die. Be sure to take lots of screenshots, it tends to look awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 07, 2014, 09:59:19 pm
So, my Minmal mission slingshotted and is currently orbiting the sun. Well, at least when it re-enters Kerbin orbit in *checks MechJeb* five years, it will be worth approximately 13.52 metric f**ktons of science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 10:20:04 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 07, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
Try moving or deleting the main KSP folder, downloading the whole thing and running it without any changes. Should be in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program.
Already did that. It's working.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on April 07, 2014, 11:08:45 pm
The problem is probably something in the Squad gamedata folder, try verifying cache and/or doing the whole redownload thing again and not copying that folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 11:10:36 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 07, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
If that doesn't work then your video card is probably about to die. Be sure to take lots of screenshots, it tends to look awesome.
Sometimes I get the impression that this is half of what causes Danny's awesome, Fine he does things KSP isn't designed for and the Kracken has its way with his Kerbals, but seeing the glitches he finds in other games makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 08, 2014, 04:28:30 am
Danny's videos can only be described as [Physics intensifies]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 06:47:02 am
Quote from: Mini on April 07, 2014, 11:08:45 pm
The problem is probably something in the Squad gamedata folder, try verifying cache and/or doing the whole redownload thing again and not copying that folder.
Thanks, but...
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 07, 2014, 10:20:04 pm
It's working.

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 07, 2014, 11:10:36 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 07, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
If that doesn't work then your video card is probably about to die. Be sure to take lots of screenshots, it tends to look awesome.
Sometimes I get the impression that this is half of what causes Danny's awesome, Fine he does things KSP isn't designed for and the Kracken has its way with his Kerbals, but seeing the glitches he finds in other games makes me wonder.
True.
I might do stuff like that, but:
1. I don't know how to take videos (longer than 29 seconds, which is when Fraps cuts off videos whenever I try to use it).
2. No graphical glitches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 08, 2014, 06:47:30 am
Wallcar was best idea ever. Of all time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 08, 2014, 07:16:51 am
If Fraps cuts of videos at 29 seconds, that means you're using the demo :P

(Yarr yarr)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 07:27:06 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 08, 2014, 07:16:51 am
If Fraps cuts of videos at 29 seconds, that means you're using the demo :P

(Yarr yarr)
Oh. I see.
...That's crappy. Does anyone know of a free video-taking program that doesn't do that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2014, 08:29:01 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 07:27:06 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 08, 2014, 07:16:51 am
If Fraps cuts of videos at 29 seconds, that means you're using the demo :P

(Yarr yarr)
Oh. I see.
...That's crappy. Does anyone know of a free video-taking program that doesn't do that?
I think the free version of Bandicam cuts off at 10 minutes, which is enough most of the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on April 08, 2014, 08:52:36 am
I use https://obsproject.com (https://obsproject.com) to stream, and it can record as well. It's 100 percent free, and it just took me a 15 minute youtube video watch to get it set up and ready to go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 08, 2014, 08:55:40 am
Supposedly NVidia came up with some technology (using Geforce Experience) that allows you to record videos of games, so if you install that you might be able to record? There's also MSI Afterburner, which can be used to overclock your graphics card and also take videos.

On the other hand...

Quote from: miauw62 on April 08, 2014, 07:16:51 am
(Yarr yarr)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 08, 2014, 08:58:28 am
NVidia's stuff is only for higher end graphics cards (I.E literally every single one better than the one I'm using right now, GT 640)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 08, 2014, 09:22:41 am
This should work and it is free

https://obsproject.com/

Not the friendlier of interfaces and windows only
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 10:13:28 am
Quote from: timferius on April 08, 2014, 08:52:36 am
I use https://obsproject.com (https://obsproject.com) to stream, and it can record as well. It's 100 percent free, and it just took me a 15 minute youtube video watch to get it set up and ready to go.
You wouldn't happen to have a link to said video, would you?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on April 08, 2014, 12:01:02 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 10:13:28 am
Quote from: timferius on April 08, 2014, 08:52:36 am
I use https://obsproject.com (https://obsproject.com) to stream, and it can record as well. It's 100 percent free, and it just took me a 15 minute youtube video watch to get it set up and ready to go.
You wouldn't happen to have a link to said video, would you?

It was months ago, and I can't find where I found it. Best bet would just be to Google "set up open broadcaster software" There should be lots of videos to choose from, I don't have the time right now to watch them and tell you if any are good though sadly, or I would.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 08, 2014, 12:55:32 pm
At one point I had virtual dub set up for capturing, but it can be a tricky beast if your settings aren't just right. or well you'll end up with corrupted output.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 08, 2014, 04:52:07 pm
Quote from: timferius on April 08, 2014, 12:01:02 pm
It was months ago, and I can't find where I found it. Best bet would just be to Google "set up open broadcaster software"
I guessed. Worth a shot.

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 08, 2014, 12:55:32 pm
At one point I had virtual dub set up for capturing, but it can be a tricky beast if your settings aren't just right. or well you'll end up with corrupted output.
...A virtual what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 08, 2014, 05:46:37 pm
VirtualDub, it's an application for video conversion that apparently can also be used for video capturing!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 08, 2014, 11:36:47 pm
So, remember orbiting-the-sun guy? Well, his rocket had a mechjeb unit and some industrial-grade batteries on. (this was before I had solar panels.) So, I have him transmit the crew and EVA logs, which gave me enough science to get some more tech. I researched the bit which would allow mechjeb to actually live up to its name (for the education of those not converted to the Church of MechJeb [in the name of the delta-v calculator, the maneuver node editor, and the distance-to-surface display, Amen], in career mode, you unlock various features as you progress along the tech tree, culminating in a probe core that looks like a sinister Personality Core mounted on a nose cone. Seriously, that thing is f***ing creepy. The 'eye' will normally lock onto the target. However, when you are in the VAB, it will follow the position of the camera. In other words: it's watching you.)
and was able to re-enter Kerbic(seriously, squad needs to formalize the vocabulary for all things Kerb) orbit. This module was intended to be a Minmus-bound research mission, so it had the works. I gained over 400 science from that mission.

Anyways, any advice on how to launch larger payloads? Say, the core of a space station?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 08, 2014, 11:58:48 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on April 08, 2014, 11:36:47 pm
Anyways, any advice on how to launch larger payloads? Say, the core of a space station?
Are you running 23.5? If not then orange tanks are your friend. Without a hint at the size of your space station core I'll just assume you need to launch a megatonne.
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56212-1000-Tonnes-to-Orbit (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56212-1000-Tonnes-to-Orbit)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Features:
-1st Stage
--6250 tonnes
--1597 parts
--91 mainsail engines
--3 stage support structure
--45 seconds to load and initialize physics

Do you even lift?
But in all seriousness, ORANGE TANKS! This craft here is capable of lifting a full orange tank to a few hundred km orbit, that should be enough payload right?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stage 1: 7 Orange and 6 1/4 orange, 1 Mainsail and 6 skippers, with fuel crosslinks so they all run out at the same time;
Stage 2: 2 Orange, 1 half and a quarter orange, 1 mainsail. Note RCS tanks, by the time you reach stage 2 the craft gets a bit unstable when turning.
Stage 3: An orange and a 1/4 and a poodle, you need what's in the bottom grey tank to raise/change orbit, it would be more efficient to move that to drop tanks or something but whatever.

As an aside my career game has now progressed to the Mercury stage featuring a rocket 30% lighter with 30% less thrust, and barely enough dV to launch a similar sized payload up to low kerbal orbit If piloted competently , The Redstone even features a superficial resemblance, barring the colour inversion.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 09, 2014, 12:33:19 am
Am I the only one who finds dozens of clustered orange tanks repulsive? I've never been a fan of them but everyone else seems to bow to their glory.

Also, that first launcher is somehow worse all around than the one I threw together for my ridiculous battleship, despite being twice the launch mass. Are the new engines really that good?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 09, 2014, 06:13:32 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 09, 2014, 12:33:19 am
Am I the only one who finds dozens of clustered orange tanks repulsive? I've never been a fan of them but everyone else seems to bow to their glory.

Also, that first launcher is somehow worse all around than the one I threw together for my ridiculous battleship, despite being twice the launch mass. Are the new engines really that good?
Yes.

And KW rocketry has ones that are twice as good as THOSE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 09, 2014, 07:03:17 am
Quote from: tahujdt on April 08, 2014, 11:36:47 pm
and was able to re-enter Kerbic(seriously, squad needs to formalize the vocabulary for all things Kerb)
Adjective: Kerbal. Simple.

Quote from: BFEL on April 09, 2014, 06:13:32 am
Yes.

And KW rocketry has ones that are twice as good as THOSE.
Assuming you ignore fuel consumption and whatnot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 09, 2014, 07:26:42 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 09, 2014, 07:03:17 am
Quote from: tahujdt on April 08, 2014, 11:36:47 pm
and was able to re-enter Kerbic(seriously, squad needs to formalize the vocabulary for all things Kerb)
Adjective: Kerbal. Simple.

Quote from: BFEL on April 09, 2014, 06:13:32 am
Yes.

And KW rocketry has ones that are twice as good as THOSE.
Assuming you ignore fuel consumption and whatnot.

Hey, if you can thrust so hard you make orbit with a half a second burn, you don't NEED ISP :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 09, 2014, 08:24:46 am
Yeah, you do.
1. No engine I'm aware of gives that much thrust.
2. Low ISP=High Fuel Consumption=More Fuel Needed
More Fuel Needed=Bigger Rockets=Less Wieldey Rockets=More Crashes
More Fuel Needed=More Mass=Lower Acceleration
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 09, 2014, 08:55:20 am
plz. You just need moar rockets. Space pancakes are the best pancakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 09, 2014, 09:05:55 am
Asparagus staging FTW! Only carry as many rockets as you need! (And trust us, you need a lot)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 09, 2014, 06:16:22 pm
A note for efficient aircraft use; keep the intakeair as low as possible by climbing higher. I realised just now while flying to the south pole that your intakeair level in the resources tab shows your surplus, so you want it to be minimal so you're flying through thinner air.
Also re-entry effects on aeroplanes is a fun thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on April 09, 2014, 07:59:29 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on April 09, 2014, 06:16:22 pm
A note for efficient aircraft use; keep the intakeair as low as possible by climbing higher. I realised just now while flying to the south pole that your intakeair level in the resources tab shows your surplus, so you want it to be minimal so you're flying through thinner air.
Also re-entry effects on aeroplanes is a fun thing.

This is why flying on Laythe is the best thing. With some skill, you can easily make orbit without any rocket engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 09, 2014, 08:50:35 pm
I'd imagine you'd need rockets or ion drives or something to actually get into a real orbit, though.

Anyways. While launching a bit of interplanetary decor for my LP, I made what could probably be an SSTO with a weird take-off pattern. It started by lifting off slowly, and well...
(http://i.imgur.com/mMkc725.png)
...a lot more sideways than expected. Like, sliding sideways, not tilting.

That wasn't until it was a few kilometers up. Redesigning so it shouldn't do that. I hope...

EDIT: The eventual (final?) redesign managed to get a TWR of 3.67 before its first engines went out (about 34 km ASL, going straight up). I think I have enough boosters.
EDIT2: Between not having enough Δv and spinning, it didn't make it. I guess I might want to give up on making a Single-Stage to Vertical Escape vehicle...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 12:37:48 am
Exactly how big is your payload, anyway? If you're playing with the ARM update especially, "less is more". The lifter that launches my VASIMR Asteroid Tug pretty much gets the whole thing to orbit by itself.

edit: of course, if you're in career it's a different story. But I just built a rocket that gets a 3-man capsule to escape velocity with like three engines, using a modified lifter stage of my asteroid tug. Had to stuff two extra ginormous halftanks on, and swap the little toroid engines for the humongous bell thrusters of doom, but it gets there no problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 01:04:26 am
Are those all orange tanks? You should be able to get 40-50 tons up with those.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 01:31:00 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 01:04:26 am
Are those all orange tanks? You should be able to get 40-50 tons up with those.
He's going SSTO, which is more about balancing TWR and delta-V than massive amounts of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 01:40:42 am
I was just trying to estimate his payload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 01:55:46 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 01:40:42 am
I was just trying to estimate his payload.
And I'm pointing out that he is trying to SSTO his rocket, so that estimate it way off. ^_^ From the looks of it he's trying to send up nothing but a capsule and some solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 02:05:55 am
People alway err on the moar fuel side when building ssto..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 02:44:58 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 02:05:55 am
People alway err on the moar fuel side when building ssto..
And hilariously, it doesn't always work. It's about a balance of dV and TWR. My current SSTO planes achieve orbit on one long tank of kerolox and an extra liquid fuel tank, and that's while carrying three inline hydrogen tanks, four small MPDTs, and enough batteries and capacitors to run those MPDTs at full thrust for half a minute straight. Plus a pair of humongous solar arrays. Unfortunately most of the shots I have of my recent flights look like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's apparently a very bad idea to start a solar-powered SSTO flight in the dead of night. And I forgot to use the mini-lights mod that I installed for this exact reason. >_>
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on April 10, 2014, 03:38:46 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 02:44:58 am
And I forgot to use the mini-lights mod that I installed for this exact reason. >_>
What... You don't mean... for the solar panels?

That's just so...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 04:14:45 am
No, I mean for self-illumination on the dark side. If you can see the ship in those shots, your monitor gamma is set too high - to me it's just a sea of black with white specks. And blue specks where the capacitors are.

And although blowing into your own sail might seem silly, a boat can actually be propelled that way. Turning the fan around is still more effective of course, but still. No comment on the free energy though. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 06:14:54 am
I used to try using nuclear engines for ssto, but not ions are stupidly overpowered, I can easily make solar powered planes that do a few hundred meters per second.
I haven't tried doing anything big yet though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 06:22:45 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 12:37:48 am
Exactly how big is your payload, anyway? If you're playing with the ARM update especially, "less is more". The lifter that launches my VASIMR Asteroid Tug pretty much gets the whole thing to orbit by itself.
1. Career mode. No big rockets yet.
2. Um, not that big. Still, having a rocket I can fire-and=forget straight up out of Kerbal SoI isn't easy.

Quote
edit: of course, if you're in career it's a different story. But I just built a rocket that gets a 3-man capsule to escape velocity with like three engines, using a modified lifter stage of my asteroid tug. Had to stuff two extra ginormous halftanks on, and swap the little toroid engines for the humongous bell thrusters of doom, but it gets there no problem.
I'd like to point out that I'm operating under different restrictions than you. Restrictions I eventually gave up on, which makes me sorta sad because getting all those fuel tanks there would have made it much more impressive.

Quote from: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 01:04:26 am
Are those all orange tanks? You should be able to get 40-50 tons up with those.
Nope. I don't have those researched yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 10, 2014, 08:04:34 am
Spoiler: I Haz SSTO? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 10, 2014, 08:06:35 am
That looks really cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
And, perhaps more importantly, does anyone have advice on how to get SSTO spaceplanes to orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 10, 2014, 09:01:24 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
So basically an SSTO rocket? Probably. It would be difficult to stay at a horizontal velocity while you're building up speed, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 09:05:15 am
Lots of SSTOs don't have wings. They generally rely on part clipping to keep center of mass inline with center of thrust.

Wing? Who needs wings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFwIga5sglY)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 10, 2014, 09:11:29 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 10, 2014, 09:01:24 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
So basically an SSTO rocket? Probably. It would be difficult to stay at a horizontal velocity while you're building up speed, though.

How would it be any more difficult than with a staged rocket?

The new combined fuel tank+engine "booster" they added in the last patch can be paired with a single probe core to get a 2 part SSTO...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 09:23:23 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
And, perhaps more importantly, does anyone have advice on how to get SSTO spaceplanes to orbit?
As I said, with the new parts in the ARM pack, it's pretty easy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To make SSTO spaceplanes, you need either Turbojets or RAPIERs, plus the ram-air intakes (the glowy blue ones). Get a decent takeoff TWR, add enough wings to glide with the tanks full, and set up some action groups to quickly toggle your air intakes and engines.
  When you have that, you take off, aim 45 degrees upwards, get to 15k altitude and accelerate as fast as you can while staying in the atmosphere for as long as you can. Open the resource panel and watch your Intake Air level, do not let it drop fully. At some point you will likely need to be accelerating almost horizontally, building speed while almost not gaining altitude at all, but it's important that you don't start losing altitude because denser air will slow you down.
  At some point your intakes won't get enough air. The exact point where that happens varies, but you should be at at least 20-24km altitude and going at 1000 - 1300m/s, otherwise you're unlikely to make orbit. If you have a turbojet, now is the time to fire the rocket engine(s) and toggle the jet and the intakes off via action group. If you have a RAPIER, it will switch automatically, so you only have to close the intakes. On rocket power, you aim up 45 to 60 degrees, open the map screen, and do your best to push your apoapsis to space, higher is better. Once you think you're good, coast to the apoapsis and, if you still have fuel left, circularize.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 11:44:05 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 09:05:15 am
Lots of SSTOs don't have wings. They generally rely on part clipping to keep center of mass inline with center of thrust.

Wing? Who needs wings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFwIga5sglY)
Pity he didn't show it taking off or anything.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 09:23:23 am
To make SSTO spaceplanes, you need either Turbojets or RAPIERs, plus the ram-air intakes (the glowy blue ones). Get a decent takeoff TWR, add enough wings to glide with the tanks full, and set up some action groups to quickly toggle your air intakes and engines.
  When you have that, you take off, aim 45 degrees upwards, get to 15k altitude and accelerate as fast as you can while staying in the atmosphere for as long as you can. Open the resource panel and watch your Intake Air level, do not let it drop fully. At some point you will likely need to be accelerating almost horizontally, building speed while almost not gaining altitude at all, but it's important that you don't start losing altitude because denser air will slow you down.
  At some point your intakes won't get enough air. The exact point where that happens varies, but you should be at at least 20-24km altitude and going at 1000 - 1300m/s, otherwise you're unlikely to make orbit. If you have a turbojet, now is the time to fire the rocket engine(s) and toggle the jet and the intakes off via action group. If you have a RAPIER, it will switch automatically, so you only have to close the intakes. On rocket power, you aim up 45 to 60 degrees, open the map screen, and do your best to push your apoapsis to space, higher is better. Once you think you're good, coast to the apoapsis and, if you still have fuel left, circularize.
Noted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 11:55:27 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 11:44:05 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 09:05:15 am
Lots of SSTOs don't have wings. They generally rely on part clipping to keep center of mass inline with center of thrust.

Wing? Who needs wings? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFwIga5sglY)
Pity he didn't show it taking off or anything.

Yeah, not like the other dozen or more videos of takeoff and landing or one of the last videos of a double round trip without refueling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 10, 2014, 12:17:31 pm
Quote from: Kanil on April 10, 2014, 09:11:29 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 10, 2014, 09:01:24 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
So basically an SSTO rocket? Probably. It would be difficult to stay at a horizontal velocity while you're building up speed, though.

How would it be any more difficult than with a staged rocket?
I wouldn't know from experience, since I normally move my staged rockets upward, whereas single-stagers usually need to build up speed because of their generally lower power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
I don't really get why people are so obsessed with SSTO. It doesn't really provide any tangible benefit over normal rocketing, it seems to propagate solely on "coolness factor"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 12:43:59 pm
An SSTO rocket doesn't need to get to orbit like a spaceplane. I think it's way past due for the terms "SSTO" and "Spaceplane" to be separated from each other in the minds of KSP players. One is in no way connected to another, like "round" and "orange", with the same case where one well-known and widely available thing is both at the same time.

An SSTO rocket is basically just a rocket. It doesn't need to be literally single-stage, but it needs to be one solid, non-separating piece. It achieves orbit exactly like a regular rocket does, with a gravity turn or a sideways burn at apoapsis, the only difference is that it lugs all of its empty tanks along with it, rather than shedding them.

prepost edit:
Quote from: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
I don't really get why people are so obsessed with SSTO. It doesn't really provide any tangible benefit over normal rocketing, it seems to propagate solely on "coolness factor"
Right now it's mostly practice. For when the economy kicks in. :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 12:56:10 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
I don't really get why people are so obsessed with SSTO. It doesn't really provide any tangible benefit over normal rocketing, it seems to propagate solely on "coolness factor"
...And your point?
What in KSP isn't for coolness factor?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 01:00:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
And, perhaps more importantly, does anyone have advice on how to get SSTO spaceplanes to orbit?

pfft. doesn't have to be anything fancy or clippy as other people suggest.

here, I would post a video but it is so dead simple to replicate:
Spoiler: simplesinglestagetoorbit (click to show/hide)

as other said, there is nothing fancy to do it with rockets, because dv depends only on fuel and ship mass

ssto with breather engine on the other hand allow you to get into space without spending a lot of oxidizer requiring only little fuel to reach 20km@1500m/s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 02:43:09 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 12:43:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
I don't really get why people are so obsessed with SSTO. It doesn't really provide any tangible benefit over normal rocketing, it seems to propagate solely on "coolness factor"
Right now it's mostly practice. For when the economy kicks in. :evilgrin:

Just throw parachutes on your spent stages. Works in Mission Controller.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 02:57:23 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 02:43:09 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 10, 2014, 12:43:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
I don't really get why people are so obsessed with SSTO. It doesn't really provide any tangible benefit over normal rocketing, it seems to propagate solely on "coolness factor"
Right now it's mostly practice. For when the economy kicks in. :evilgrin:

Just throw parachutes on your spent stages. Works in Mission Controller.
Not the same thing. You never know what the actual costs will be for recovery. Having an SSTO craft doing rounds guarantees that not only your investment in construction remains, but also that it literally stays in one piece after the mission, and can - with some skill - fly itself to land right on your doorstep.

And of course it's cool. ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rabid_Cog on April 10, 2014, 03:42:48 pm
Has anyone ever tried combining FAR with Deadly Reentry? Its... tough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 03:51:31 pm
yep, it is like hard mode. Now I am using just far, as procedural fairings are wonky in 0.23.5, but it really makes challenging to get the ship back home (I try to recover everything because of the kerbal economy mod)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 10, 2014, 03:51:53 pm
Quote from: Rabid_Cog on April 10, 2014, 03:42:48 pm
Has anyone ever tried combining FAR with Deadly Reentry? Its... tough.

I...honestly I can't think of why someone WOULDN'T combine those :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 10, 2014, 03:53:29 pm
Apparently "watching a tutorial for a rocket physics simulator" is a sufficiently good excuse for me to watch Scott Manley videos during study period.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 10, 2014, 04:11:51 pm
Quote from: Rabid_Cog on April 10, 2014, 03:42:48 pm
Has anyone ever tried combining FAR with Deadly Reentry? Its... tough.

It's not so hard once you overcome some bad design and flight habits that vanilla doesn't punish you for. For rocket launches just remember that flaps are your friend and to make smooth gravity turns.
Stay above about 25km when you're going faster than 3km/s for a Kerbin aerobrake, take multiple passes if necessary. You can't expect to survive a straight vertical drop from the Mun, but you should be fine if you come in shallowly enough. Just keep the limitations of your craft in mind when planning your maneuvers and you shouldn't have to worry.

Also, what's wrong with procedural fairings? They seem to be working fine for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 10, 2014, 04:11:58 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I've been wondering...is it even possible to have an SSTO that doesn't have wings?
And, perhaps more importantly, does anyone have advice on how to get SSTO spaceplanes to orbit?

OKTO2, T-200 and Rockomax 48-SS or w/e (the small one) is a wingless SSTO.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 10, 2014, 06:32:42 pm
I'm using far an deadly reentry, I've had problems with rockets losing stability during the gravity turn, problem has been mostly solved with tail wings, basically looking at the rocket as if it's a normal plane , turn on center of gravity and lift display and place enough drag behind the center of mass to eget the c tee of lift close to the front of the mass.
I've had major reentry problems with mechjebs pod, specifically it wants to renter facing away from the heat shield it have placed over its engines also radial parachutes tend to burn off, It's also hard to get the bastard to slow down fast enough under own power, you have under a minute after reentry plasma dissipates in order to slow down before impact.
I find turning on auto land gets mj to reorient itself fast, then just spam the n key for RCS thrust, otherwise mj totally overshoots the ground and kersplodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 06:39:39 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 10, 2014, 04:11:51 pm
Quote from: Rabid_Cog on April 10, 2014, 03:42:48 pm
Has anyone ever tried combining FAR with Deadly Reentry? Its... tough.

It's not so hard once you overcome some bad design and flight habits that vanilla doesn't punish you for. For rocket launches just remember that flaps are your friend and to make smooth gravity turns.
Stay above about 25km when you're going faster than 3km/s for a Kerbin aerobrake, take multiple passes if necessary. You can't expect to survive a straight vertical drop from the Mun, but you should be fine if you come in shallowly enough. Just keep the limitations of your craft in mind when planning your maneuvers and you shouldn't have to worry.

Also, what's wrong with procedural fairings? They seem to be working fine for me.

nodes haven't be updated to the last engine update that allows node size proportional to contact area, or something, making them quite wobblier. also sometimes fairing (interstage?) don't open properly

you need a tweak on top of 2.4.4
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39512-0-23-Procedural-Fairings-2-4-4-tech-tree-and-minor-improvements-%28March-31%29?p=1079688&viewfull=1#post1079688

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 10, 2014, 07:33:44 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 10, 2014, 06:39:39 pm
you need a tweak on top of 2.4.4
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39512-0-23-Procedural-Fairings-2-4-4-tech-tree-and-minor-improvements-%28March-31%29?p=1079688&viewfull=1#post1079688
Thanks, but I can't see any downloads for fixes, only a mention of an "MM patch". I'll assume that it means ModuleManager, which I think is fully updated. If not, well I rarely use the interstage fairings anyways.

Has anyone been having trouble with kerbal attachment system? I've been getting problems where the game will freeze up for a second and afterward I can't return to the space center. Switching to another vessel causes the Kraken to strike and send the camera flying out of the solar system. After it last happened I checked the error log and it just showed KAS spitting out errors about distanceToGround being -1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 07:35:45 pm
Known KAS problem. Welcome to KAS. You're f*ed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 10, 2014, 07:49:03 pm
Well I wasn't using it at the moment. Time to remove, it will just make my planned Jool spaceport/orbital construction yard a little harder to set up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on April 10, 2014, 07:52:25 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 07:35:45 pm
Known KAS problem. Welcome to KAS. You're f*ed.

Been using KAS for almost a year, never had any issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 07:55:46 pm
KAS problems, when they happen, are usually catastrophic. They break the universe. Glloyd, you probably aren't using the same mix of mods as others. Or you aren't using KAS in a particular way. Things blowing up is rather common at the official forums. Most people F5 before using KAS in game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 10, 2014, 07:56:23 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on April 10, 2014, 07:52:25 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 07:35:45 pm
Known KAS problem. Welcome to KAS. You're f*ed.

Been using KAS for almost a year, never had any issues.

Your anecdote has been promptly ignored and thrown out due to being useless like all anecdotes are for any reasonable discourse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:33:59 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on April 10, 2014, 03:53:29 pm
Apparently "watching a tutorial for a rocket physics simulator" is a sufficiently good excuse for me to watch Scott Manley videos during study period.
Cool.


Anyways, I've run into a bug. I switched from EVA to Space Center, but then I couldn't switch from Tracking Station to...well...anything. I could focus on something, but I couldn't then Fly it or focus on anything else. I could, however, change what was showing up on the list, so it wasn't just a game freeze.

I classified a (partial) rocket with a kerbonaut inside as debris; could this be an issue? It wasn't earlier...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 10, 2014, 08:44:57 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 08:33:59 pm
Anyways, I've run into a bug. I switched from EVA to Space Center, but then I couldn't switch from Tracking Station to...well...anything. I could focus on something, but I couldn't then Fly it or focus on anything else. I could, however, change what was showing up on the list, so it wasn't just a game freeze.

I classified a (partial) rocket with a kerbonaut inside as debris; could this be an issue? It wasn't earlier...

I've had that happen from time to time. I doubt it was designating the rocket as debris, it could be a mod issue. The only way I've found to fix it is to restart the game. But before you do that, look at the error log in the cheat menu (Alt-F12) and see if it says anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 10, 2014, 09:51:21 pm
Restarting didn't work once. I haven't tried twice. I'll try that come the morrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
A kerbonaut inside? That doesn't sound like debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 11, 2014, 12:38:52 am
Researching russian rockets for my copy of the R-7 has led me to discover something that I can't anywhere find reference to.
Namely that commonly in english language descriptions of russian rockets thrust is described in kH, I wasn't entirely sure what measurement that was so I spent a bit of time looking up rockets and kH or kN to find a rough conversion. I generally found the number was the same, so of course when I looked up the letter H in Cyrillic I find that it's pronounced 'en' so basically I've reached the conclusion that many people translating descriptions of russian rockets actually know nothing about Physics or possibly the russian language?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 11, 2014, 12:38:52 am
Researching russian rockets for my copy of the R-7 has led me to discover something that I can't anywhere find reference to.
Namely that commonly in english language descriptions of russian rockets thrust is described in kH, I wasn't entirely sure what measurement that was so I spent a bit of time looking up rockets and kH or kN to find a rough conversion. I generally found the number was the same, so of course when I looked up the letter H in Cyrillic I find that it's pronounced 'en' so basically I've reached the conclusion that many people translating descriptions of russian rockets actually know nothing about Physics or possibly the russian language?

"кН" is Russian for kN, yes. So those people probably fail at translating.

Just out of curiosity, can you point me to where you found those descriptions?

Edit: I made a Near Future-powered asteroid catcher SSTO spaceplane.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It ain't no armageddon preventer, and it hasn't really been tested yet, but its VASIMR thruster and argon supply should allow it to intercept and capture class A and B asteroids for scientific purposes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 06:52:22 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 10, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
A kerbonaut inside? That doesn't sound like debris.
It's a cockpit no longer connected to anything. Except maybe the one parachute.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
It ain't no armageddon preventer, and it hasn't really been tested yet, but its VASIMR thruster and argon supply should allow it to intercept and capture class A and B asteroids for scientific purposes.
I'll believe it when I see it. So please do so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 11, 2014, 07:12:30 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
"кН" is Russian for kN, yes. So those people probably fail at translating.
Just out of curiosity, can you point me to where you found those descriptions?

Interested in the rockets, or just in the location of the errors? I think I saw kH once on wikipedia in a description of one of the rocket motors from either an early Soyuz or the R-1, and it was in a few results from google which I don't remember, since I didn't open the pages I can't really find them. But the majority was from russianspaceweb.com, which confusingly has several pages mentioning kH, pounds, or tonnes of force, but the majority is in kH. Tonnes is ok since a ton of force is 9.8 kN or 10 if i don't want to be too exact,, but poundsforce is just annoying at 4.448 newtons per pound so I need a calculator.
Now if it's the rockets you're interested in Astronautix.com has an absolute dearth surfeit of information, The N1 page in particular game me a good overview of the state of the program and the technical problems the rockets faced which I was using for an Aurora RP, which got kinda abandoned just as Apollo 11/luna 15 was being launched. And speaking about TL/DR, the V2 page seems like it lists every damn rocket launched, The early part of the chronology is very interesting however as is the final few launches by american scientists.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 12:24:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 06:52:22 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
It ain't no armageddon preventer, and it hasn't really been tested yet, but its VASIMR thruster and argon supply should allow it to intercept and capture class A and B asteroids for scientific purposes.
I'll believe it when I see it. So please do so.

Well, you better believe it then (http://imgur.com/a/UV3Pt#0). ^_^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: monk12 on April 11, 2014, 12:35:28 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 12:24:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 06:52:22 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
It ain't no armageddon preventer, and it hasn't really been tested yet, but its VASIMR thruster and argon supply should allow it to intercept and capture class A and B asteroids for scientific purposes.
I'll believe it when I see it. So please do so.

Well, you better believe it then (http://imgur.com/a/UV3Pt#0). ^_^

That's hella neat
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:25:17 pm
If you want to play around with it, here's the craft file:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/AsterBuster%20Fairdyne.craft (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/AsterBuster%20Fairdyne.craft)

Mods you will need: Near Future Propulsion (engines and electrics), Procedural Fairings (little nosecones on the boosters).
Mods you will want: Mk2 Cockpit Internal View

Special takeoff procedure: Enable SAS, step on the brakes, make sure throttle is zero. Stage. Right-click VASIMR thruster, set variable thrust to maximum. Press 0 to deactivate all electric engines. Release brake, throttle up and take off.

SSTO Instructions: Very much a temperamental craft, SAS tends to fail in keeping attitude. Get to 15k as fast as possible, then go level. Target flight parameters before air-breathing cutoff - 24km altitude, 1100m/s velocity, attitude 45 degrees. Push apoapsis to around 90km, and cut engines. Switch off RAPIERs, activate the PITs and the VASIMR, then coast. Once above 45k altitude, go full throttle along prograde, unfold solar array, roll to face it towards the sun. Use capacitor banks to keep the batteries from emptying. When capacitors are exhausted, turn off PITs and burn all the way to apoapsis on the VASIMR. Keep prograde. At apoapsis, reactivate RAPIERs to burn off any remaining oxidizer, then deactivate them again. If everything went right, the VASIMR working at half power from the solar panel's output should be enough to finish the circularization maneuver.

Action groups:
1: Toggle air intakes
2: Toggle RAPIER engines
3: Toggle PIT boosters
4: Toggle VASIMR thruster
5: Fold/Unfold solar array
6: Discharge capacitor group 1
7: Discharge capacitor group 2
8: Discharge capacitor group 3
9: Start/Stop recharge of non-full capacitors
0: Deactivate all electric engines
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 02:58:03 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 12:24:34 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 06:52:22 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 11, 2014, 01:40:04 am
It ain't no armageddon preventer, and it hasn't really been tested yet, but its VASIMR thruster and argon supply should allow it to intercept and capture class A and B asteroids for scientific purposes.
I'll believe it when I see it. So please do so.
Well, you better believe it then (http://imgur.com/a/UV3Pt#0). ^_^
Neat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 11, 2014, 03:05:58 pm
So, finally we know: do Kerbals blend?

http://zippy.gfycat.com/BigheartedOblongBernesemountaindog.webm
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on April 11, 2014, 03:22:35 pm
And the answer is no. No they don't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 11, 2014, 03:50:49 pm
Kerbal smoke. Don't breath that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 11, 2014, 06:58:53 pm
Was it Danny's latest video with the Kerbal compressor?
That was a Kerbal blender, definitely.
Edit: What I've been working on;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The R7 launcher was designed to get a 6 ton payload to Munar orbit, I've no idea what it's potential is but it seems rather overpowered for this role.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here we see the second stage after booster separation, the rocket reached KEO altitude and after rough circulation still had around 600 dV for stationkeeping/refining the orbit.

Boosters separate at around 20 km, I should have taken a picture showing the Korolev cross. sadly the boosters are installed slightly off center so the whole rocket wastes around 200 RCS fuel in order to avoid spin. A future revision may include winglets to cancel rotation, or the boosters could be realigned.The whole thing is stock except for the mechjeb pod, AR202, a remote tech aerial and probecore, and the paintjob.

Edit: Broken images.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 11, 2014, 09:54:04 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 11, 2014, 03:05:58 pm
So, finally we know: do Kerbals blend?

http://zippy.gfycat.com/BigheartedOblongBernesemountaindog.webm
What even is going on there?

Quote from: Cmega3 on April 11, 2014, 08:38:25 pm
I see them. Small flames. NO. Failure is not an option. TURN THE ENGINES ON AT FULL!
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPYrFxIgiF5M9JtH_hNy4lk83RRIJP15AkLiJY5TdFIE3vo4FKJK4dBueT)
It sure was here.

Quote
Altitude: 44.5 Km
Target speed: 32-58 m/s
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
Altitude: 44 Km
/me collides violently with the asteroid, exploding into hundreds of tiny pieces! The severed parts sail off in a cloud of burning debris!
My Kraken. It- It's beautiful!
Unfortunately, I had no time to take pics before it all crashed against the ocean. For that second, however, I saw the awesomest thing ever. Guess you'll have to take my word for it.
Oops.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 11, 2014, 11:24:27 pm
I've been trying to figure out how to set up a launch base on the Mun with extraplanetary launchpads, but I just don't get how you're supposed to design these things. The launchpads themselves don't seem to leave any place for all the other equipment required to land them and make them work. It doesn't help that they all fold out in bizarre ways which in theory make them easier to launch but in practice just mean you can't attach stuff to the sides of the deployed launchpad properly.
I can only assume you are intended to use infernal robotics to move the parts into position once you land. But since that's broken in the new version I guess I'll have to stick to orbital construction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 12, 2014, 12:46:33 am
I stand corrected, That is an actual blender for Kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2014, 01:59:48 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 11, 2014, 11:24:27 pm
I've been trying to figure out how to set up a launch base on the Mun with extraplanetary launchpads, but I just don't get how you're supposed to design these things. The launchpads themselves don't seem to leave any place for all the other equipment required to land them and make them work. It doesn't help that they all fold out in bizarre ways which in theory make them easier to launch but in practice just mean you can't attach stuff to the sides of the deployed launchpad properly.
I can only assume you are intended to use infernal robotics to move the parts into position once you land. But since that's broken in the new version I guess I'll have to stick to orbital construction.

Or you assemble in mun orbit then land the whole thing. Look into davon thrust controller mod to keep the assembly balanced on landing

Or you connect with the attachable parts of kas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 12, 2014, 09:09:25 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 11, 2014, 11:24:27 pm
I've been trying to figure out how to set up a launch base on the Mun with extraplanetary launchpads, but I just don't get how you're supposed to design these things. The launchpads themselves don't seem to leave any place for all the other equipment required to land them and make them work. It doesn't help that they all fold out in bizarre ways which in theory make them easier to launch but in practice just mean you can't attach stuff to the sides of the deployed launchpad properly.
I can only assume you are intended to use infernal robotics to move the parts into position once you land. But since that's broken in the new version I guess I'll have to stick to orbital construction.

My exact issues with it right here ^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 09:40:03 am
Why not build only orbital platforms?

If you're dead set on the Mun I would consider switching to Minmus. If you can do that then you might be able to do the Mun. Build a bare minimul lander with legs though. The launchpads do not work well on bare ground. KSP will cause them to bounce in the ground upon physics loading. Legs and wheels absorb that to some extent. That should give you clearance for engines and drop tanks and docking ports. Balance is just a matter of keeping the weight of everything in mind as you build. Use dead weight if you have to.

Baha has a small launchpad with built in legs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 10:10:53 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 09:40:03 am
Why not build only orbital platforms?
Because it's kinda silly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:32:35 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 10:10:53 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 09:40:03 am
Why not build only orbital platforms?
Because it's kinda silly?

Until we get linear accelerators built on the surface of moons for a fuel-less launch, it's not that silly at all. Stuff some rocket parts on the head of a rocket and you don't have to worry about balance as much, just fuel. Right now both are free on Kerbin. You also don't have to worry as much about the in game physics engine on surfaces. Whether you do orbital or surface it's likely a good idea to also get the BioMass mod for fuel. Built ships don't come fueled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 12, 2014, 01:03:40 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:32:35 am
Built ships don't come fueled.
Hello dealbreaker :P

Well ok, probably not, since you basically need Kethane installed to even use the things.

But yeah, why not build orbital platforms?
1. Because I didn't know you can do that
2. Because I never even got ANY OF THAT SHIT INTO SPACE
3. Because rocket parts and kethane to fuel them are mined on the moons you would normally build shit on, effectively making both limitless.

Notably, I always intended the base to be built on Minmus, because launching a normal size rocket from a atmosphereless, nigh gravityless moon seems practically OP :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on April 12, 2014, 02:15:49 pm
Indeed, it does solve the problem of launching a hysterically complex, massive and/or ungainly object into orbit: Don't launch it, build it there. No lifting stage involved, just launch fuel and crew up to supply it after construction. Or beforehand, I guess, since it would basically act as a space station/supply depot.

I had no idea it was possible to deploy and use launchpads in orbit, either, and I was having a lot of trouble setting one up on minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2014, 02:53:57 pm
advantage of non orbital is that you can attach to a kethane refinery and part factory with drills if you are landed

but if you are around minmus you can shuttle from the minmus refinery to the launchpad in orbit.

does minmus support synchronous orbit? that would make shuttle operations quite efficient
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 12, 2014, 03:00:35 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2014, 02:53:57 pm
does minmus support synchronous orbit? that would make shuttle operations quite efficient
Probably, good luck figuring out how to do that though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 12, 2014, 03:22:26 pm
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Synchronous_orbit

found this. seems doable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 05:28:40 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:32:35 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 10:10:53 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 09:40:03 am
Why not build only orbital platforms?
Because it's kinda silly?
Until we get linear accelerators built on the surface of moons for a fuel-less launch, it's not that silly at all. Stuff some rocket parts on the head of a rocket and you don't have to worry about balance as much, just fuel. Right now both are free on Kerbin. You also don't have to worry as much about the in game physics engine on surfaces. Whether you do orbital or surface it's likely a good idea to also get the BioMass mod for fuel. Built ships don't come fueled.
No, I mean isn't the idea of orbital launchpads (and hence either building rockets in orbit, or dragging them up to orbit) kinda silly?

Quote from: greatorder on April 12, 2014, 03:24:20 pm
I stand corrected.
I think what you said is right for the Mun, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 12, 2014, 05:36:25 pm
Orbital ship building is really sane, and really attractive.

The main reason is because if it is built in 0G than you dont have to worry about subjecting it to 1g, or more.

Gravity is a bitch when it comes to ship designs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 06:59:40 pm
You still need to move all the bits up to orbit, though. That's going to be harder than moving the whole rocket unless you're building something stupidly big or rather unstable (like a mile-long starship or a space station, which are really the exception to the rule), because the raw materials (or even the parts, plus all the miscellaneous bits to make sure no one part breaks on the way up) are going to be as heavy or heavier than the whole craft, and you also have to bring up fuel for rendezvous and whatnot. It's really easier when you don't have a limited amount of acceleration you can use to move everything.
(Not to mention that you're still experiencing about as much gravity in orbit as on the surface, unless you're crazily far out.)

TL;DR: What the hell kind of things are you building?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 12, 2014, 07:17:06 pm
Everything built in space for use in space us unstable in atmo.

As for hauling it up, parts dont have empty space within and are smaller, and so costs less to launch.

Quote
(Not to mention that you're still experiencing about as much gravity in orbit as on the surface, unless you're crazily far out.)
Not really, no. Ever hear of weightlessness? Yah, that is experienced even within the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 07:20:12 pm
Depends on the parts. Air doesn't weigh much; padding to make sure that your sheets of metal doesn't shake around or break? Tools to assemble stuff in orbit? Rendezvous fuel? Less so.

If everything for space is unstable in atmosphere, how did we get shuttles and stations into orbit? Hm?

(And I was making a minor physics quibble.)


Overall...orbital construction makes sense for a few things, but if you're making those things, you should be willing to put in the sweat, tears, and Kerblood to actually haul all that crap to orbit before assembling it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 12, 2014, 07:36:01 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 07:20:12 pm
Depends on the parts.
True, but overall it still costs less, as among other things aerodynamics.
Quote
If everything for space is unstable in atmosphere, how did we get shuttles and stations into orbit? Hm?
Designed to work solely in space. Space stations would not work in atmosphere (beyond that in LEO) and are built in PARTS to allow them to get up there. You shove a spacestation in the area a jet goes and... Well there goes the space station.
For a comparison, look at early concept ideas for the lunar lander VS what they actually landed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 08:12:54 pm
I specifically noted space stations as being among the few things that make sense to assemble in space--and they make no sense to launch from an orbital launch pad, which is the thing we're discussing! See, the big problem with space stations is less aerodynamics and more structural strength. If you make a space station strong enough to survive being strapped on a rocket, you've wasted a lot of resources on structural material that you really didn't need to.

Aerodynamics? Remind me, what kind of space ships are you building, that it's easier to make all-aerodynamic parts--as well as hauling up all the other little bits that let you assemble the thing in orbit--than to make the whole thing aerodynamic (or add a few small fairings to cover the un-aerodynamic bumps)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 08:20:20 pm
Sometimes you need to lift something enormous and the engines you use to get it from Kerbin's surface will tear the craft apart. This was more of a problem in 0.23.0. You can absolutely get your part count down by building in space. There's no more space tape ends among other things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 08:27:23 pm
Again: What are you building that is that big, and why do you feel that anything that insane should be pre-assembled in space for you? Someone needed to get it all up there, neh? (And what's the point of the pad, anyways?)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 09:08:41 pm
Pullers are actually a prime example. They tend to be long and spindly. You can dock them in orbit, but that's often a terrible thing for stability. You get turn wobble at the very least (Manley's Duna Express I'm looking at you). If you can strut all or most of a multi component craft that is unliftable from the surface then orbital construction is it. It doesn't have to be heavy, it just has to be unwieldy. Enormous stuff does tend to be tall. Stacks upon stacks. Those things do not lift well in one package and often you could just remove docks and just strap things together. Those do not lift well from a surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 09:38:10 pm
That's what KAS and quantum struts are for. No need for something stupid, unrealistic, and above all lazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 12, 2014, 09:48:44 pm
I don't even know what this argument is about anymore...

In other news, I figured out that the struts attached to the torpedoes on my battleship were causing them to veer inward when fired. The problem is that removing them causes the torpedo stacks to wobble around wildly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:00:46 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 09:38:10 pm
That's what KAS and quantum struts are for. No need for something stupid, unrealistic, and above all lazy.

What, like KAS (prone to exploding) and quantum struts (unrealistic)? KAS struts often fall off at physics reload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 10:02:47 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 12, 2014, 09:48:44 pm
I don't even know what this argument is about anymore...
Orbital launch pads.

Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:00:46 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 12, 2014, 09:38:10 pm
That's what KAS and quantum struts are for. No need for something stupid, unrealistic, and above all lazy.
What, like KAS (prone to exploding) and quantum struts (unrealistic)? KAS struts often fall off at physics reload.
Not familiar with KAS, but it's there.
As for quantum struts...ignore the word "quantum" in the name, and they're basically struts you can install after docking two spaceships. Very unrealistic. And not needed for your idea. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmMode)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:13:45 pm
You brought them up and I'm well aware of their shortcomings and how they work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 13, 2014, 02:17:14 am
Anybody had this issue with mechjeb?

http://i.imgur.com/KFXJFMT.png

basically, I keep buying it from the science building, and it keeps saying I need to buy it from the science building before I can use it, and it keeps duplicating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 02:23:20 am
Mechjeb comes in modules, I think. Make sure you actually purchased all prerequisite modules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 06:57:25 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 12, 2014, 10:13:45 pm
You brought them up and I'm well aware of their shortcomings and how they work.
I'm just saying, cheating your spacecraft into orbit isn't the only--or best--way to do it. And Quantum Struts seem to be rather issue-free, aside from the word "quantum" in their name.

Quote from: Japa on April 13, 2014, 02:17:14 am
Anybody had this issue with mechjeb?

http://i.imgur.com/KFXJFMT.png

basically, I keep buying it from the science building, and it keeps saying I need to buy it from the science building before I can use it, and it keeps duplicating.
Make sure you didn't install two versions of MechJeb simultaneously. That happened to be; it was fixed when I located and deleted the old version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Cheating a craft into orbit? You obviously haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Quote from: Japa on April 13, 2014, 02:17:14 am
Anybody had this issue with mechjeb?

http://i.imgur.com/KFXJFMT.png

basically, I keep buying it from the science building, and it keeps saying I need to buy it from the science building before I can use it, and it keeps duplicating.

As GWG wrote. You have a duplicate part file with the same name(identical variable in code used by ksp) somewhere. Check gamedata and parts in the ksp root folder. Also make sure you don't have duplicate plugin dll's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 09:39:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Cheating a craft into orbit? You obviously haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads.
Get an object into orbit, unfold it, done. Isn't that basically it?


I tried making a fighter. It was...interesting. I didn't put big enough wings on it, so it didn't lift off. Then the engine hit the ground and exploded, sending the rest wobbling until one wing hit the ground and broke, then the other, then the thing crashed and exploded. I think that's a failure on many levels.
Solution? Bigger wings! Triple-delta rather than single-swept. These should provide enough lift, at the slight cost of making it look a bit like a butterfly. (Albeit a butterfly with a mosquito head.) I again encounter issues of the "engine hits the ground, plane falls apart" type. But I made progress!

(http://i.imgur.com/DBItSsa.png)

Bits survived!

I try moving the rear landing gear backwards. This time, I take off easily, before somersaulting backwards. Two chunks of wing and the main body of the craft (including rear gears and parachutes) survived.

Let's try fewer wings and more control surfaces. Two fewer delta wings, two more standard control surfaces. This time, takeoff goes well! Now, where was that SSTO Spaceplane guide Sean gave me a few days back...There it is! Now let's just tilt back a little and OH GOD I'M SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL! I give up on manual attitude control and leave MechJeb to do the work. It doesn't flip around, even if it turns much more poorly than I'm used to seeing MechJeb do. I note that electric charge is swiftly dwindling, and that the liquid fuel from the little combined-fuel tanks is being drained before the main-body liquid fuel. (Well, it's all liquid fuel, so it should still work.) The maximum speed is under 100 m/s; I want more than ten times that. Hopefully higher atmosphere will be able to provide. I watch MechJeb spin and determine that switching from 25 degrees AoA to 45 is a bad idea. In fact, I'll try to avoid steep angles of attack, period. Sadly, it's too late for this fighter...

(http://i.imgur.com/l05k95Q.png)

Well, changes. First, action groups for the air intakes and solar panels. Second, non-extendable solar panels to keep charge up in atmosphere. Third...I was a bit top-heavy, so to try and fix that I stick some radial monoprop fuel tanks on the belly and some RCS ports around the craft. I'm sure RCS will come in handy someday.
Takeoff is rough, but only because I gave MechJeb bad commands. Trying again without telling MechJeb to take the fighter straight forwards (ignoring gravity) works better. I begin rising at a safe 30-degree angle, watching, waiting.

(http://i.imgur.com/ku3NIJm.png)

Ging more or less at the Mun. Neat.
As the load lightens and the air things, the velocity increases. Still an order of magnitude smaller than I want, though.
We are almost to 10,000 meters ASL before intake air drops even slightly. How high will two ram intakes feed a RAPIER?
Thrust goes down suddenly. I turn it back up before remembering that I'm still in the lower atmosphere, then reconsider if that should be a consideration given that I'm jetting. In the end, I leave it up.
We're close to 14,000 meters before intake air drops to 50%. Hm. I try to tilt up to 45 degrees; MechJeb overdoes it. I try to turn it back down to 30, but we're already spinning. I turn off the engine, and this helps. We began falling, though...and we begin spinning again. Turn off the engine, order a 20-degree angle...still falling, no spinning until I try to have it "Kill Rot" to cure the dangerous-looking wobbles. Same deal without killing rot, it takes forever to stabilize so I turn off Mechjeb and try to fly manually. I am promptly reminded of why I was using MechJeb to fly this bird in the first place. I get it slightly more stable and order MechJeb to take over. It starts spinning again. I take over and promptly start twirling around on my side. And it was going so well there for a while...

Okay. No more 45-degree ascents. Ever.

Takeoff the next time is shaky, but MechJeb fixes it. Ascent begins again.
Just under 18 kilometers ASL, I switch to a more horizontal angle as intake air drops towards 25%. I drop it a little more at 19,000 meters, then raise it because 15 degrees isn't quite steep enough to keep me rising and not falling.
20 kilometers ASL. Finally, the air intake level drops to 0.09/0.4. Velocity a bit over 800 m/s and climbing but well under 1100.
23 km ASL. We've passed a kiometer per second. Intake air has dropped a third over these last three kilometers. Nice how that worked out.
Just past 24.5 km ASL, we pass the 1100 m/s barrier. Intake air at 10%. Let's see how much we can get out of these.
Twelve minutes in, twenty-six kilometers up, and 0.03 intake air. All around the same exact time.
Around 28 kilometers (0.02 intake air), I notice that the RAPIER's thrust is dropping. I turn off the air intakes and watch the RAPIEr switch. Now, let's see if my hypothesis on how fuel works is true...
Once we pass 32 km, I quicksave and tilt back to 45 degrees for a better ascent. No spinning out of control! Also, we pass two km/s. And apoapsis is 90 kilometers! Should have been watching that earlier, I guess, but I'm used to not being below 40 km when the apoapsis is in space. It's about five minutes out, so I've got plenty of time for a maneuver node. I wait until we break atmosphere, then get an orbital insertion. It's quite a circular orbit--82.5 by 80.5. I have less than twelve units of oxidizer and excess liquid fuel, so I can't get much of anywhere with that, but I do have twin ion engines and RCS. So, ions for transport, RCS for maneuvering, burn the rest of the oxidizer for re-entry, and the last of the liquid fuel for landing? Sounds decent.

Spaceplanes are pretty neat. The RAPIERs are pretty useful, too. Overall...I'm not sure if I'm a bad pilot and a terrible plane designer or a terrible pilot and a bad airplane designer, but I hope I can overcome that and get better at this, because this was awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 09:49:31 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 09:39:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Cheating a craft into orbit? You obviously haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads.
Get an object into orbit, unfold it, done. Isn't that basically it?

You've just described all of vanilla KSP. Good job.

But no, that's not EL. At least that's not EL with Kethane installed. You need rocket parts to build craft. How you get that is either ship it from Kerbin or mine ore, smelt to metal, and convert to rocket parts. That's a minimum of three different parts, all of which are quite unwieldy, required to built a ship away from Kerbin Command.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 10:41:18 am
Do it. With kethane we can rule the stars.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 11:54:46 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 09:39:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Cheating a craft into orbit? You obviously haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads.
Get an object into orbit, unfold it, done. Isn't that basically it?
Well, yes, but that's the first step. Meaning, just the pad itself. I haven't actually played the mod, but I accumulated an idea of what it does through osmosis, of a sort. In a way, it basically allows you to haul non-specific "resources" of a given mass into orbit, and have them manifest into a premade ship of no more than that mass. I think that's what it was doing originally. Now there seems to be some kind of mining operation alternative, and some things may have changed as well, but I think the general principle remains the same.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 11:56:03 am
Anyone here tried the asteroid redirect stuff?

Anyone who's tried it figured out how to move an asteroid without going into an unstoppable spin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 13, 2014, 12:01:46 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 11:56:03 am
Anyone here tried the asteroid redirect stuff?

Anyone who's tried it figured out how to move an asteroid without going into an unstoppable spin?
More reaction control wheels and less thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 13, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 11:56:03 am
Anyone here tried the asteroid redirect stuff?

Anyone who's tried it figured out how to move an asteroid without going into an unstoppable spin?
You can target the asteroid's center of mass. Then unlock your claw, line your engines up with that, then relock your claw.

Once your engine is lined up with the asteroid's CoM, you should experience little to no spinning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2014, 12:21:44 pm
You can move asteroids now?  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 12:23:42 pm
You always could since they added them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:04:43 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 09:49:31 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 09:39:02 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Cheating a craft into orbit? You obviously haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads.
Get an object into orbit, unfold it, done. Isn't that basically it?
You've just described all of vanilla KSP. Good job.
Actually, I've described the boring half of all KSP.

Quote
But no, that's not EL. At least that's not EL with Kethane installed. You need rocket parts to build craft. How you get that is either ship it from Kerbin or mine ore, smelt to metal, and convert to rocket parts. That's a minimum of three different parts, all of which are quite unwieldy, required to built a ship away from Kerbin Command.
Oh no. You need to get something into orbit, then you send up a bunch of cargo ships to rendezvous with the single thing. So hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 13, 2014, 01:18:35 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:04:43 pm
Quote
But no, that's not EL. At least that's not EL with Kethane installed. You need rocket parts to build craft. How you get that is either ship it from Kerbin or mine ore, smelt to metal, and convert to rocket parts. That's a minimum of three different parts, all of which are quite unwieldy, required to built a ship away from Kerbin Command.
Oh no. You need to get something into orbit, then you send up a bunch of cargo ships to rendezvous with the single thing. So hard.
You just described assembling anything in orbit. Good job.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on April 13, 2014, 01:20:54 pm
...Ok, so, the argument is mostly over already, but I'm bringing it back up because nobody ever linked any real evidence: http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2008/12/future-spaceships-should-be-bu.html

tl;dr: Orbital construction isn't only realistic, it's extremely practical and people do it all the time in KSP even without orbital launchpads. If you have ever sent anything up in multiple pieces and docked them together, because you just can't lift it all at once/it would collapse otherwise? Yeah, that's the benefit, it's just not quite so easy to join ships together like that in reality.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
Quote from: dragnar on April 13, 2014, 01:20:54 pm
tl;dr: Orbital construction isn't only realistic, it's extremely practical and people do it all the time in KSP even without orbital launchpads.
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.

Anyways, I've just had a problem with KAS. I linked a couple "craft" with a fuel pipe during a test, but after I did that, I couldn't leave. Space Center, Revert Flight, Recover Vessel...nope. Nothing worked. What caused this and how can I avoid it? I'd like to know before I spend the time sending a refueling ship to Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 13, 2014, 01:40:18 pm
http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/

if you can read trough the pink glasses, there is some good math there about orbital construction costs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 13, 2014, 01:51:28 pm
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter: check.
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter to Munar orbit: check.
Enough fuel to de-orbit after a Kerbin encounter: check.
I feel good.

Edit: Scratch that, I'm crashing into the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:00:43 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 13, 2014, 01:51:28 pm
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter: check.
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter to Munar orbit: check.
Enough fuel to de-orbit after a Kerbin encounter: check.
I feel good.

Edit: Scratch that, I'm crashing into the Mun.
You are getting sigged.
Also, KAS bugginess? Any patterns? Basically, what I asked for earlier?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
Anyways, I've just had a problem with KAS. I linked a couple "craft" with a fuel pipe during a test, but after I did that, I couldn't leave. Space Center, Revert Flight, Recover Vessel...nope. Nothing worked. What caused this and how can I avoid it? I'd like to know before I spend the time sending a refueling ship to Minmus.
It's apparently a known bug of KAS. The only solution I know of is to uninstall KAS. It can happen to any craft, not just ones which are using KAS features. If you don't want to remove the mod, your best bet is to quicksave often and avoid large spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 02:03:57 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
Quote from: dragnar on April 13, 2014, 01:20:54 pm
tl;dr: Orbital construction isn't only realistic, it's extremely practical and people do it all the time in KSP even without orbital launchpads.
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.

Launchpads have different challenges. You still have to feed them. You also have to land them. It's not easy. Both landed and orbital are easy and hard in their own different ways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:08:29 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:00:43 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 13, 2014, 01:51:28 pm
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter: check.
First successful Kerbin orbit to Munar encounter to Munar orbit: check.
Enough fuel to de-orbit after a Kerbin encounter: check.
I feel good.

Edit: Scratch that, I'm crashing into the Mun.
You are getting sigged.

I don't see it in your sig.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.
You could apply that same argument to things like reactionless drives and FTL travel.
And the thing is...you can build things in orbit. You just don't want to. And even something like quantum struts is a way less silly way of doing things than a launch pad in orbit.

Quote
It's apparently a known bug of KAS. The only solution I know of is to uninstall KAS. It can happen to any craft, not just ones which are using KAS features. If you don't want to remove the mod, your best bet is to quicksave often and avoid large spacecraft.
Damn.

Quote from: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:08:29 pm
I don't see it in your sig.
That's because I haven't put it there yet. There's usually a delay while I do other stuff. I got into the habit when I was on a sigging binge, so I could put a dozen quotes in at once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 13, 2014, 02:19:35 pm
Yoy could always build the enterprise on the ground and ;roject orion it straight to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:20:59 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:08:29 pm
I don't see it in your sig.
That's because I haven't put it there yet. There's usually a delay while I do other stuff. I got into the habit when I was on a sigging binge, so I could put a dozen quotes in at once.

...I don't see any quotes in your sig...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.
You could apply that same argument to things like reactionless drives and FTL travel.
And the thing is...you can build things in orbit. You just don't want to. And even something like quantum struts is a way less silly way of doing things than a launch pad in orbit.
There is a difference between "dock things to things in space and pretend it was meant to be that way", and emulating an actual orbital shipyard. Even with KAS, there are still many things you plainly can't do with per-module assembly. Extraplanetary Launchpads is just filling in for the abilities you would have IRL, but can't have right now in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 02:33:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:20:59 pm
...I don't see any quotes in your sig...
He has his sig on the sig thread, and a link to said sig thread in his sig.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:46:26 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.
You could apply that same argument to things like reactionless drives and FTL travel.
And the thing is...you can build things in orbit. You just don't want to. And even something like quantum struts is a way less silly way of doing things than a launch pad in orbit.
There is a difference between "dock things to things in space and pretend it was meant to be that way", and emulating an actual orbital shipyard. Even with KAS, there are still many things you plainly can't do with per-module assembly. Extraplanetary Launchpads is just filling in for the abilities you would have IRL, but can't have right now in KSP.
"Pretend it was meant to be this way"? If you're half-competent, you'll have planned it that way and won't need to pretend.
And notice how there is no such thing as an "actual orbital shipyard" in reality, nor plans for one? Notice how KSP is more representative of modern space mission technology than sci-fi (ignoring of course the lack of life support requirements)?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 02:57:39 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:46:26 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.
You could apply that same argument to things like reactionless drives and FTL travel.
And the thing is...you can build things in orbit. You just don't want to. And even something like quantum struts is a way less silly way of doing things than a launch pad in orbit.
There is a difference between "dock things to things in space and pretend it was meant to be that way", and emulating an actual orbital shipyard. Even with KAS, there are still many things you plainly can't do with per-module assembly. Extraplanetary Launchpads is just filling in for the abilities you would have IRL, but can't have right now in KSP.
"Pretend it was meant to be this way"? If you're half-competent, you'll have planned it that way and won't need to pretend.
And notice how there is no such thing as an "actual orbital shipyard" in reality, nor plans for one? Notice how KSP is more representative of modern space mission technology than sci-fi (ignoring of course the lack of life support requirements)?

Just stop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 03:12:37 pm
Notice that I'm not starting anything. I'm just responding. Easy way to get me to stop, if y'all don't want this to continue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 03:17:03 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 02:33:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 02:20:59 pm
...I don't see any quotes in your sig...
He has his sig on the sig thread, and a link to said sig thread in his sig.

Ah, okay. Well, if you're half-competent, you wouldn't call something that isn't your sig your "sig".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
What would you call it, then?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 03:31:03 pm
A expanded sig?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 03:33:54 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 03:12:37 pm
Notice that I'm not starting anything. I'm just responding. Easy way to get me to stop, if y'all don't want this to continue.

You were just embarrassing yourself.

By the by, resources are still on the table for vanilla KSP. Building things away from Kerbin is probably still a thing. It's been proven to work and will likely become stock. It's certainly less buggy than multiplayer and that's going stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 03:37:02 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
What would you call it, then?

A post fulla quotes or something. Ain't your sig if it isn't in your sig. My mod ain't my sig.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 03:45:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:46:26 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 13, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 13, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 01:36:39 pm
My point was against the orbital launchpads, not orbital construction.
Spacecraft built entirely in orbit and only intended to work in a vacuum are a staple of science fiction. I don't understand why you're so against the idea.
You could apply that same argument to things like reactionless drives and FTL travel.
And the thing is...you can build things in orbit. You just don't want to. And even something like quantum struts is a way less silly way of doing things than a launch pad in orbit.
There is a difference between "dock things to things in space and pretend it was meant to be that way", and emulating an actual orbital shipyard. Even with KAS, there are still many things you plainly can't do with per-module assembly. Extraplanetary Launchpads is just filling in for the abilities you would have IRL, but can't have right now in KSP.
"Pretend it was meant to be this way"? If you're half-competent, you'll have planned it that way and won't need to pretend.
And notice how there is no such thing as an "actual orbital shipyard" in reality, nor plans for one? Notice how KSP is more representative of modern space mission technology than sci-fi (ignoring of course the lack of life support requirements)?
For one, we have canadarms, tethers, personal parachutes, interstage fairings, and laws of aerodynamics in real life, and yet we don't have them in KSP - so KSP not having something does not mean it should not have that something. Secondly... why yes, there is no real orbital shipyard in reality. But then we spend more money on military development per year than on the whole of the space exploration effort across all of its existence, if I recall correctly. In KSP you have much more lift capacity, and much more freedom to do whatever you wish, than all the space agencies of the real world combined twice over. If we wanted to, if we felt we had a need to? We'd have an orbital shipyard a decade ago. An Industrial Space Facility project failed to obtain funding back in the 80s, and it could sure have come in handy for servicing space shuttles.

Thing is, it is, as you said, far easier to hit the same target hanging on a geosync orbit with multiple consecutive launches, than it is launching various different parts to have them combine like Voltron and hopefully not break. Therefore, some form of space assembly platform is very much desirable, assuming there are actually things it has to build - which there currently are none. Anything we want to build is currently either small enough to lift in one go, or is meant to lift itself up - until that hypothetical manned Mars mission we aren't even going to be sending ships of any mentionable size anywhere in the Solar System. So we, in the real world, plainly do not need a space dock - not yet.

In KSP, however, it is a very different story, and if you would project our reality onto the realities of KSP, you would see that an orbital shipyard is an entirely reasonable thing to have.

Also, do make an effort not to insult my design and planning abilities. I am quite capable of assembling interplanetary motherships in orbit, and I do not use the EL mod because I consider its visual aspects downright atrocious, but even I get tired of maneuvering bits of spacecraft into position. When a ship has to be 30% docking ports by mass fraction in order to look like its designer intended it to look, I think it's time to wave vanilla KSP goodbye.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 06:54:55 pm
You know? Screw y'all and your orbital shipyards. (Pretty much just the shipyards, actually.) It's not worth the irritation to argue with y'all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 07:10:47 pm
So I've just started doing major missions with the latest version, and I've noticed that the mission timer and orbit planner consider five or six hours to be one day.  This is a bug, right?

Spoiler: Meanwhile, on Minmus. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 13, 2014, 07:12:06 pm
Not a bug at all. You can even turn it off in the options.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2014, 07:35:41 pm
Note: Kerbal time is different than earth time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 08:25:36 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 07:10:47 pm
So I've just started doing major missions with the latest version, and I've noticed that the mission timer and orbit planner consider five or six hours to be one day.  This is a bug, right?

Spoiler: Meanwhile, on Minmus. (click to show/hide)
Nope. Time is now done in Kerbal days. Yay for folks like me who like RP, boo for folks like you who prefer universal Earth time.
And why is Δv for Mun landing lower than Minmus? It should be the opposite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 08:45:30 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 08:25:36 pm
And why is Δv for Mun landing lower than Minmus? It should be the opposite.

Typo.

I really wish vanilla KSP had a provision for automatically repeating launches with the same craft.  Since there's no chance of mechanical failure, it's just a chore I'm tired of doing when I want to get landers all over the Mun.  I know there are utilities that can do that, but eh...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 13, 2014, 09:12:18 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on April 13, 2014, 08:45:30 pm
I really wish vanilla KSP had a provision for automatically repeating launches with the same craft.  Since there's no chance of mechanical failure, it's just a chore I'm tired of doing when I want to get landers all over the Mun.  I know there are utilities that can do that, but eh...
Eh indeed.
Well, if you had something that let you dump fuel, you could hack your way to wherever with as much expended fuel as it took.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 13, 2014, 09:17:07 pm
Thanks for the help, guys.

There was indeed an extra mechjeb part in the parts folder, outside gamedata.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2014, 09:41:04 pm
First asteroid grab but having some trouble with stabilizing and centering on its mass. I ended up hitting the roid over .5m/s and it tumbled so things got wobbly.

Finally. That was horrible. First asteroid is captured in Kerbin's SOI. Barely okay to miss Minmus. I go inside and outside its orbit. I definitely need to start color coding front/side/etc of my craft so I know how to torque the klaw and get the center of mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on April 14, 2014, 05:42:54 am
Is it possible to have Kethane on asteroids?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 14, 2014, 05:49:04 am
Asteroids aren't planets but moveable objects, so I don't think so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 14, 2014, 07:21:19 am
Quote from: Sheb on April 14, 2014, 05:42:54 am
Is it possible to have Kethane on asteroids?
If you load a spacecraft with lots of Kethane and then attach it to an asteroid, then yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 09:26:17 am
Random question: Is it possible to have KSP play in maximized-window or fullscreen mode?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 14, 2014, 09:32:59 am
Think so, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 09:51:49 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 09:26:17 am
Random question: Is it possible to have KSP play in maximized-window or fullscreen mode?

Of course. Why wouldn't it?
Code: [Select]
FULLSCREEN = False
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on April 14, 2014, 10:44:13 am
He means borderless window.

Switch the game to windowed mode and add -popupwindow to the shortcut or launch options in Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 14, 2014, 10:45:48 am
I wonder if, when they add resourses finally, they will let you take asteroids appart for them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 10:59:14 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 14, 2014, 10:45:48 am
I wonder if, when they add resourses finally, they will let you take asteroids appart for them...

Asteroids are basically vehicles, so they'd have to add taking apart crafts. That said, Extraplanetary Launchpads mod has a recycle bin you can throw your rocket into for parts. Also Kerbals...which have a tiny amount of kethane in them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 11:00:49 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 09:51:49 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 09:26:17 am
Random question: Is it possible to have KSP play in maximized-window or fullscreen mode?
Of course. Why wouldn't it?
Code: [Select]
FULLSCREEN = False
That's less than helpful if you don't tell me where that is.

Quote from: Sordid on April 14, 2014, 10:44:13 am
He means borderless window.

Switch the game to windowed mode and add -popupwindow to the shortcut or launch options in Steam.
...Not sure where to do that stuff at.

Quote from: Aseaheru on April 14, 2014, 10:45:48 am
I wonder if, when they add resourses finally, they will let you take asteroids appart for them...
Probably. Kinda silly to not.

Quote from: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 10:59:14 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 14, 2014, 10:45:48 am
I wonder if, when they add resourses finally, they will let you take asteroids appart for them...
Asteroids are basically vehicles, so they'd have to add taking apart crafts.
Or give asteroids resources that you can extract with specific parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 11:20:56 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 11:00:49 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 09:51:49 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 09:26:17 am
Random question: Is it possible to have KSP play in maximized-window or fullscreen mode?
Of course. Why wouldn't it?
Code: [Select]
FULLSCREEN = False
That's less than helpful if you don't tell me where that is.

KSP generates a settings file in the root folder. It's usually the first place to look for that sort of thing in any piece of windows software ever. It should also be in the game options at the opening screen. If you've opened your save you usually get a stripped down version of the options menu from the opening screen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sordid on April 14, 2014, 11:34:56 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 11:00:49 am
Quote from: Sordid on April 14, 2014, 10:44:13 am
He means borderless window.

Switch the game to windowed mode and add -popupwindow to the shortcut or launch options in Steam.
...Not sure where to do that stuff at.
Switch the game out of fullscreen mode in the settings menu. If you have the Steam version, right click it, Properties, Set Launch Options, type in -popupwindow, click Ok. If you have the regular version, find or make a shortcut to KSP, right click it, add -popupwindow to the Target field, click Ok.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2014, 01:51:30 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?
It's just a timing trick. Many Kerbals died to bring us this information.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 02:01:51 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?

I think so, it seems to have reached terminal velocity by that drop
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 02:37:58 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 02:01:51 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?
I think so, it seems to have reached terminal velocity by that drop
So, pretty much the same build works?
What's the timing you need?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on April 14, 2014, 03:21:10 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 02:37:58 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 02:01:51 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?
I think so, it seems to have reached terminal velocity by that drop
So, pretty much the same build works?
What's the timing you need?
Suicide burn timing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 14, 2014, 03:27:47 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 02:37:58 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 02:01:51 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 01:21:46 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 11:27:49 am
Landing with booster
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Viec6TkCw
Can you do something like that, but after dropping from orbit?
I think so, it seems to have reached terminal velocity by that drop
So, pretty much the same build works?
What's the timing you need?
According to the video, 250m off the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 14, 2014, 03:33:19 pm
for that, you might find this mod useful:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76320-23-5-%28Apr12-14%29-Landing-Height-Show-distance-from-bottom-of-your-vessel-to-ground?highlight=altimeter

when in surface speed mode, shows radar altimeter instead of slm altimeter.

it is a godsend along with enhanced navball and docking navball
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 14, 2014, 09:36:34 pm
I had an idea, or rather a clarification of an idea I've had for a while. Basically, a cannon that shoots things at other ships. Like, an actual cannony cannon.

Basically, it would include two aerospike engines (or something else), pointing opposite directions, with a fuel tank and a targeting computer (probe body) in between. Control from the targeting computer, turn to the target, and shoot. Aside from that...I've got a few ideas.

1. A magazine of projectiles, probably RCS tanks or something separated by stack separators. Also put a little panel next to the engines, to stop the projectiles at the right point. Aim, separate the separator, wait for it to move into place, shoot.
2. Something like above, but the projectiles are all separated at once, and the one in back propels the others towards the end of the barrel. Allows for a "machine gun" effect.
3. Use KAS to have kerbals grab some part from a nearby container or something, drop it in front of the cannon, retreat, fire.

3 is too complex for my taste; maybe I could put ammo storage and a cockpit or something near the cannon, so he could just EVA, grab something, drop it, return, fire. 1 is really not any better than torpedoes. I think I'll try 2...Wednesday or Thursday, that's when I'll have time.
If others want to try out cannons of various sorts, I'd be interested to see.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 15, 2014, 12:07:09 am
So I went back to my huge battleship, fixed its weapons and launched it into orbit for the fourth time. I've decided on "Adamant" for the name. Don't know what I'll do with the broken one. Probably blow it up or crash it into an asteroid.

After a slight redesign, the Adamant's fighter complement has arrived and is ready to dock. Flight leader Billy-Bobdrin EVAs out to pilot them in.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fighters are heavily influenced by Macey Dean's Mosquito fighters. Unfortunately, unlike the Spirit of Kerbin, the Adamant isn't a dedicated carrier and doesn't have enough space in its hangar for a sophisticated reloading system. The fighters have to undock and then re-dock with their torpedoes which are stored at the sides of the hangar. Not very convenient when things are running at a fifth of real time at best.

And because I'm still not satisfied, I built a couple of torpedo frigates to provide some heavy firepower while retaining decent maneuverability and framerate.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fleet is assembled and just needs a bit of refueling before it can move out to Jool, where it will defend my future orbital construction yards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 15, 2014, 01:16:47 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 15, 2014, 12:07:09 am
Don't know what I'll do with the broken one. Probably blow it up or crash it into an asteroid.
Weapons training for the new fleet. What better to test on than an actual battleship?
Though I suggest copying your save before this so you can just revert and avoid having to reload torpedos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 15, 2014, 06:40:40 am
Especially since those torpedoes look to be questionably reloadable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 15, 2014, 07:32:39 am
I Just watched Titanic, and have downloaded Hanger Extender, Part welder, and Kerbal paint.
May god help my poor overworked processor and stop it from melting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 15, 2014, 07:28:16 pm
Remember my barely-SSTO spaceplane fighter? Rather than fly it anywhere, I'm just gonna deorbit is and see how it functions under re-entry heat. I'm half a minute from apoapsis, so I just turn and burn. Shame, too. I had such a nice orbit.

I burn, bringing my periapsis to 26 kilometers, then turn prograde and wait. I still have almost 34 units of liquid fuel, enough to help power a flight to somewhere. I also test the weapon systems.

(http://i.imgur.com/uLkPF6E.png)

I...Macey's went faster. Did the engine turn off when I decoupled the node or something?

Anyways, we enter the atmosphere. As we drop below 30 km, various bits of the ship begin to get worrisomely warm. The cockpit temperature soared to nearly 350 degrees, other bits were closer to 900, the wings were nearly a thousand. But, nothing exploded, and that's what matters.
I tried to tilt up, to slow my descent, but that failed. I tested my engine, found that it worked. I burn my engine low for a while, before deciding to just glide for a while, save my fuel for later.

(http://i.imgur.com/lgbUeVl.png)

Like when I realize I'm about to hit the ocean, or a mountain. (My ion engines will be on, too, thanks to staging, but I don't think they'll help much.)
I tilt my nose up and start spinning. Not much tilt, not much spin, so I can regain control. I do gain an unstoppable tilt to the right, though. 7,600 meters or so up, I activate my engine, hoping to avoid hitting the ocean at extreme speed. I do reduce my vertical speed to little. Fiddling with attitude leads to one of this fighter's characteristic uncontrollable spins.

(http://i.imgur.com/kpu4x8x.png)

Everything I try to do to fix it makes it worse! One wing is pointing straight down, and I'm...pitching out of control! I'd say at something like a hertz? This knowledge in no way prevents the inevitable.

(http://i.imgur.com/bHZJkJq.png)

So...anyone know why my spaceplane did that or how to prevent it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 15, 2014, 07:59:53 pm
When deorbiting always make sure that you have a good landing zone, away from mountains or the ocean before you deorbit. 
One thing that you could of possibly done is to actually aim for the ground and then turn your engines on to gain speed.  Risky, but you might be able to get enough speed to level out.  Not sure if you had the fuel for that thou.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 15, 2014, 08:08:03 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 15, 2014, 07:59:53 pm
When deorbiting always make sure that you have a good landing zone, away from mountains or the ocean before you deorbit. 
One thing that you could of possibly done is to actually aim for the ground and then turn your engines on to gain speed.  Risky, but you might be able to get enough speed to level out.  Not sure if you had the fuel for that thou.
I'll see if I can do that next time.
The problem is that I was spinning badly enough that I couldn't control which way I was facing. Also, I'm trying to figure out how to not spin out whenever I move too fast or too steep. (Well, with "too fast" and "too steep" being reasonable values.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 15, 2014, 08:45:05 pm
My second asteroid grab went soooooo much better than the first, even with the same type of craft but double the SAS (just 4 big stock ones). Still wobbly little f'ers. Rendezvous are fairly easy by hand with RCS. I've been walking away and having Mechjeb do it for awhile, so I was very rusty. Second try and I'm good. Now I have another asteroid at a terrible angle between the orbits or Mun and Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 04:52:12 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 15, 2014, 08:08:03 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 15, 2014, 07:59:53 pm
When deorbiting always make sure that you have a good landing zone, away from mountains or the ocean before you deorbit. 
One thing that you could of possibly done is to actually aim for the ground and then turn your engines on to gain speed.  Risky, but you might be able to get enough speed to level out.  Not sure if you had the fuel for that thou.
I'll see if I can do that next time.
The problem is that I was spinning badly enough that I couldn't control which way I was facing. Also, I'm trying to figure out how to not spin out whenever I move too fast or too steep. (Well, with "too fast" and "too steep" being reasonable values.)
Do you use FAR? I kinda gathered that you have Deadly Reentry, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 16, 2014, 06:22:57 am
I don't know if far copies real high speed aerodynamics so thoroughly but, in real life your control surfaces become basically useless at very high speed, but we're talking high Mach velocities, I didn't see shock waves in those screenshots so I can't be sure.
Try strapping some sepratrons to the plane then hit too speed in low atmosphere and activate them, see how the speed affects your stability.
You gotta make sure they're positioned right though.
Or you could modify the engine to be 5 times as powerful, be careful with the throttle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 07:04:05 am
There's more than that. FAR does model the loss of control at supersonic speed, but more importantly it models surfaces obstructing each other from airflow, and angles of deflection. GWG's aircraft returns lightweight, and it has canards on the front - which are meant to aid in low-speed maneuvering. When he starts turning, the canards quickly pull the nose away from the airflow, and then lose effect because of the attack angle, turning into nothing but a source of drag. Which translates to the plane immediately starting to do violent spins when in atmosphere at any sort of decent speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2014, 07:13:27 am
I made a plane once which, in FAR, would fly straight and level for any length of time (and would gracefully glide right back down to land) so long as I didn't so much as touch a single control. It would even take off all on its own at the end of the runway.

The second I made any sort of correction or controlled movement, it would violently spin out and explode mid-air. I didn't have any weirdness going on like part stacking with collision turned off.

Without FAR it worked fine. I never got the hang of making planes in FAR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 16, 2014, 07:28:50 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 04:52:12 am
Do you use FAR? I kinda gathered that you have Deadly Reentry, so...
I considered it, but I'm pretty sure I didn't install it.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 07:04:05 am
There's more than that. FAR does model the loss of control at supersonic speed, but more importantly it models surfaces obstructing each other from airflow, and angles of deflection. GWG's aircraft returns lightweight, and it has canards on the front - which are meant to aid in low-speed maneuvering. When he starts turning, the canards quickly pull the nose away from the airflow, and then lose effect because of the attack angle, turning into nothing but a source of drag. Which translates to the plane immediately starting to do violent spins when in atmosphere at any sort of decent speed.
Drop the canards. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 08:10:27 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 16, 2014, 07:28:50 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 04:52:12 am
Do you use FAR? I kinda gathered that you have Deadly Reentry, so...
I considered it, but I'm pretty sure I didn't install it.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 16, 2014, 07:04:05 am
There's more than that. FAR does model the loss of control at supersonic speed, but more importantly it models surfaces obstructing each other from airflow, and angles of deflection. GWG's aircraft returns lightweight, and it has canards on the front - which are meant to aid in low-speed maneuvering. When he starts turning, the canards quickly pull the nose away from the airflow, and then lose effect because of the attack angle, turning into nothing but a source of drag. Which translates to the plane immediately starting to do violent spins when in atmosphere at any sort of decent speed.
Drop the canards. Gotcha.
I recommend removing canards and adding something else behind the existing airframe to steer the craft. The existing control surfaces are too close to the center of mass to provide adequate steering when you're flying empty. You might go from too much steering to too little - adding a more pronounced "tail" should help with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 16, 2014, 08:13:16 am
http://xkcd.com/1356/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2014, 08:15:24 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 16, 2014, 08:13:16 am
http://xkcd.com/1356/
so true
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 16, 2014, 10:13:11 am
Here's an excellent example of what you can do with Extraplanetary Launchpads and Kethane as shown from a user on the official KSP forums. http://imgur.com/a/c1mAy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 16, 2014, 10:29:57 am
Man, that's what I feel is missing in KSP. Some large objectives that net you money, like having tourist resorts, far-flung bases that really work together (i.e. bio modules, habitats, and everything else needed for self-sufficiency), that you have to build and take there.

Those mods look so awesome. Does the base part come from Extraplanetary Launchpads? How much of the base-building is just flavour, and how much is actually needed? It seems like you can actually build things outside of Kerbin and the KSP base?

I wish I had more time for gaming :o So many opportunities :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 16, 2014, 10:37:04 am
A lot of that base is another mod. "Hollow structures" or something like that. There's also KAS. As far as I know BioMass is the only mod that does air, water, food, fuels, etc.

All of vanilla KSP is flavor right now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 16, 2014, 12:32:14 pm
My RT2 satellite network is almost complete. Soon I will be able to transmit from anywhere in the solar system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 16, 2014, 12:34:30 pm
I'd love a mod that just sort of enables gravity -style- situations, maybe "forcing" anything in orbit (even from a existing save) into a 2 km radius/orbit at once, plus the mod where you can glue stuff together?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 16, 2014, 12:49:33 pm
2 km radius orbit? Isn't that well within the lower atmosphere, if not the lower lithosphere*?

*Depends on if you measure from the core or the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 17, 2014, 12:09:33 am
Today I learned that 9m/s horizontal speed is not, in fact, and acceptable speed for vertical landing.

Hopefully bill will not get too bored on the munar planes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 17, 2014, 01:26:59 am
Why do you have aircraft on the mun?

Or did you mean plains?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 17, 2014, 01:36:09 am
I meant plains, sorry. Though I have sent a plane to minimus to mine kethane.

(http://i.imgur.com/RrZKouK.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 17, 2014, 01:53:21 am
Looks oversized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 17, 2014, 01:59:55 am
It's a single stage to Minimus, it kind of has to be. Also carries a full kerhane setup for refueling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 17, 2014, 04:06:36 am
I leave you with this:
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/orbital_mechanics.png)


https://xkcd.com/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 17, 2014, 04:19:46 am
Quote from: ank on April 17, 2014, 04:06:36 am
I leave you with this:
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/orbital_mechanics.png)


https://xkcd.com/
We've been left with it some time ago. :P

In other news, I am trying my hand at a new design of lightweight SSTO.

Spoiler: So far all it does is look pretty on ascent (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 17, 2014, 04:28:20 am
Yeah, I just realized I'd been ninja'ed. DOH!

Anyways, I put up a pretty picture, that must count for something...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 17, 2014, 06:31:18 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 16, 2014, 12:49:33 pm
2 km radius orbit? Isn't that well within the lower atmosphere, if not the lower lithosphere*?

*Depends on if you measure from the core or the surface.

I mean like, this;
(http://i.imgur.com/dBf3Uwy.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 09:21:11 am
That's not radius.

What do these mods you're talking about do?

EDIT: And are there any life-support mods people recommend?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 17, 2014, 11:46:44 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 09:21:11 am
That's not radius.

What do these mods you're talking about do?

EDIT: And are there any life-support mods people recommend?

The mod he wants seems to be a "your space stations randomly disassemble themselves more then usual" mod. Which is retarded.

Anyway Scott Manley uses TAC life support mod. There should be a link in his interstellar quest. Or the reddit thereof
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 17, 2014, 12:10:51 pm
Gravity did all sorts of things wrong. What he wants is N-body physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 12:46:32 pm
That's what it sounded like, but it's...problematic. And I don't think anyone has made a mod for that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 17, 2014, 12:54:09 pm
He wants an orbit convergence tool, to simulate the effect of highly cluttered space with high chances of impact with something else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 17, 2014, 01:07:01 pm
or he could use a debris mod
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/74382-0-23-5-WIP-Plugin-Kessler-chaos-space-debris-clouds
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on April 17, 2014, 01:08:46 pm
Easiest way to do that that I've found is to break any large ship and admire the parts that sail off in long arcs. Bill and Bob know exactly what a near-death experience feels like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 17, 2014, 01:17:43 pm
I actually have a very good design of a kessler syndrome generator, using the Interstage Adapter from the Procedural Fairings mod. You get five parts per each adapter (one base, four fairings) and they can be stacked easily. A single rocket launch can deliver a hundred bits of debris easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 01:30:13 pm
Has anyone without such a mod ever hit a wandering chunk of space debris?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2014, 01:39:08 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 01:30:13 pm
Has anyone without such a mod ever hit a wandering chunk of space debris?
Happened to me once. I hit a canard from a discarded booster stage after several dozen very wasteful missions where I dropped boosters in LKO
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 17, 2014, 01:47:00 pm
I don't think he's a native english speaker/writer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2014, 01:49:02 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 17, 2014, 01:44:26 pm
Quote from: HADII on April 17, 2014, 01:43:21 pm
Boosters of several dozen missions in the heap of false information on the Internet, and the rest of the industrial wastes are directly.
Wait, what?
I don't even know, but it's beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 17, 2014, 01:54:04 pm
He's made 7 posts in random threads over a period of a few months. All of them are more or less the same vaguely relevant gibberish. How bizarre.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 17, 2014, 01:55:28 pm
capturing an E asteroid is harder than expected.

I got there with my 3000m/s dv, and once docked, my dv went to 27m/s

luckily I chose one that was already passing near Kerbin, and after a 17m/s maneuver I set the pe at 20k on the Kerbin surface.

turns out it was barely enough to reduce the ap close to the minmus orbit, because the huge mass the drag does little to slow you down.

after four passage in Kerbin atmosphere, I have not yet landed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2014, 01:57:39 pm
Wait, we're supposed to LAND them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 17, 2014, 02:01:29 pm
Well, what else are you going to do to it? Attach a bunch of buildings via claws and pilot a giant space rock base around the solar system?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 17, 2014, 02:03:18 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 17, 2014, 01:54:04 pm
He's made 7 posts in random threads over a period of a few months. All of them are more or less the same vaguely relevant gibberish. How bizarre.
NANANANANANANANA BOT-MAN! NANANANANANANANA BOT-MAN!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on April 17, 2014, 02:09:25 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 17, 2014, 02:03:18 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 17, 2014, 01:54:04 pm
He's made 7 posts in random threads over a period of a few months. All of them are more or less the same vaguely relevant gibberish. How bizarre.
NANANANANANANANA BOT-MAN! NANANANANANANANA BOT-MAN!
Quote from: HADII on April 17, 2014, 01:59:56 pm
Cheers.

(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt315/xxxsuperchunk/scrol%20box/animation.gif)
That post seems human, though.

Has anyone tried that asteroid base thing we'd all been thinking of yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 17, 2014, 02:12:47 pm
Quote from: HugoLuman on April 17, 2014, 02:09:25 pm
Has anyone tried that asteroid base thing we'd all been thinking of yet?

Not sure what you mean by "base", but I'm currently catching asteroids to build an overly large, overly complex, and generally ill-advised orbital station... above Minmus. Not sure where I should assemble it, though. Shipping all the parts to Minmus will be very time consuming, but trying to get a half dozen asteroids (including a class E) to all move in the same direction at the same time sounds pretty daunting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 02:19:35 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2014, 01:57:39 pm
Wait, we're supposed to LAND them?
Kerbin's not gonna destroy itself.
Disclaimer: GreatWyrmGold neither advocates nor condones the use of celestial objects to destroy inhabited planets. Even uninhabited planetoids is frowned upon. Take this advice at your own risk, and you'd better hope you're among the casualties if there are any.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on April 17, 2014, 03:17:41 pm
What happen if you crash an asteroid on the KSC?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 17, 2014, 03:37:41 pm
Nothing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 18, 2014, 01:50:19 am
Bounces and laughters
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 02:03:03 am
You would get an asteroid on the KSC.

In other news, my attempts to make a compact SSTO with over-wing engine pods so far results in nothing but pretty pictures. Can only get it to suborbital.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still trying to see if a better ascent profile can help, or if I need to add more stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 02:45:40 am
Probably needs a 3ed engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 02:52:31 am
It has plenty of power, a third engine will just weigh it down. I tried giving it a 58-SS or however it's called to give it a more efficient low-thrust push when in space, but it's not enough. It needs more air to stay in the atmosphere longer, but I don't use intake stacking. I might see about giving it more lift capacity, and some more fuel so it can accelerate in space longer. At this rate I think I'll need at least a halftank's worth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 03:04:48 am
Stay in the upper atmo longer?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 03:14:17 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 03:04:48 am
Stay in the upper atmo longer?
Yeah, that's what I'm trying. I can't get better than 25k/1400m/s, and even with RCS I can't get a steep enough ascent angle from there. And I still don't have enough fuel - there's just a long tank and a halftank, plus the fuselage of liquid fuel that gets used up during this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 03:14:59 am
Ions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 03:45:01 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 03:14:59 am
Ions?
Not enough TWR to make a difference. The craft is at best 200 m/s short of an orbit, and the entire ascent takes a few minutes - not enough time to circularize with ions.

Even the AsterBuster Fairdyne, my SSTO Asteroid Tug with Near Future ion/plasma engines, barely makes it to orbit. It's just not feasible with stock ions and a craft this heavy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 04:39:01 am
I meant ions in addition to the main engines, for the added little kick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 04:49:24 am
Yeah, I understood that, but the same principle applies. The time spent between takeoff and apoapsis is about three minutes, and the SSTO needs an extra 200m/s to circularize. Even if the ions and the batteries/solar panels didn't weigh anything, there wouldn't be enough time for them, with their low thrust, to make enough of a difference. Small and light as it is, the craft is still way too heavy to move with ions. And I'd rather not add a dozen of them just to SSTO, even if it did work out. Messes with the aesthetic.

So I just have to find better ascent profiles and work with the lift/mass balance some more. Probably just need to carry more fuel, and have some better lift capacity to reach edge of atmosphere with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2014, 04:53:29 am
I need to show you macy deans Ion SSTO (hint, it was before the buff)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 18, 2014, 04:56:21 am
Yeah, I know it's possible. But it needs to airhog, it needs to be practically skirting the edge of space by the time it deploys the ions, and to get that far on turbojets alone requires a massive amount of intakes. I think his was also way smaller and lighter than mine, using stacking to pack the intakes as densely as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on April 18, 2014, 10:23:04 am
Radial intakes!
If you see a spot without an intake, put an intake there!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 19, 2014, 01:49:47 am
I've been looking at making very large objects, the biggest ive found is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xt6Z1kSS14 Kerboewing 747 with over 600 parts and wing span slightly larger than the runway's width.
I've flown it and my processor can't really handle it, However part welder did make the entire thing load really well, but it removed all the fuel and whenever I added more fuel tanks the whole thing kinda exploded on the runway, destroyed kerbin, ejected itself out into deep space at the speed of light and destroyed the map.
So anyway, I'm planning something that'll need maybe 40,000 structural panels, part welder might help.
Edit: Though It's taken around 10 minutes to weld the 760+ pieces of 2x2 panels I've made into a borg cube, and hasn't finished yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 19, 2014, 08:07:52 am
Well, it seems I've been right about the Rocketplane Pretty Fly. It just needed another halftank of fuel, some extra lift, and a better ascent plan.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot598.png)

http://imgur.com/a/OZ8mi
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 19, 2014, 08:57:00 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 19, 2014, 01:49:47 am
the whole thing kinda exploded on the runway, destroyed kerbin, ejected itself out into deep space at the speed of light and destroyed the map.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 19, 2014, 10:35:18 am
Finished my first large scale test of part welder, It went exceedingly well.
The test vehicle is a ship comprised of what was originally 726 panels as well as a handfull of other parts. The panels were welded into 6 large pieces which were joined onto a frame built on top of the first large panel. Welded parts only want to attach near their center which requires a little planning. Also the connections between the parts are rather flimsy and require struts.
The finished ship contains around 120 parts and weighs about 320 tons(not counting fuel).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes it's a cube.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It explodes rather spectacularly.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Jeb taking his 22 meter cube for a leisurely drive at 600 kph.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Needs airbags.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Coming home after taking the cube for a short spacewalk.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gentle landing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Great view..... How do i get down?

The whole thing responded very well, wasn't laggy at all, just like any craft with only 100 pieces, I'm satisfied to start larger scale tests.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 19, 2014, 10:58:34 am
That is great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 19, 2014, 03:23:16 pm
1. What is this Part Welder thing?

2. How, exactly, do you land at a specific set of coordinates, accounting for rotation, without having MechJeb's landing autopilot?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 19, 2014, 03:48:19 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 19, 2014, 03:23:16 pm
2. How, exactly, do you land at a specific set of coordinates, accounting for rotation, without having MechJeb's landing autopilot?
Eyeballing, experience, and trial and error.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 19, 2014, 03:48:47 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 19, 2014, 03:48:19 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 19, 2014, 03:23:16 pm
2. How, exactly, do you land at a specific set of coordinates, accounting for rotation, without having MechJeb's landing autopilot?
Eyeballing, experience, and trial and error.
Luck as well. Also extra deltav
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 19, 2014, 04:08:52 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 19, 2014, 03:48:47 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 19, 2014, 03:48:19 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 19, 2014, 03:23:16 pm
2. How, exactly, do you land at a specific set of coordinates, accounting for rotation, without having MechJeb's landing autopilot?
Eyeballing, experience, and trial and error.
Luck as well. Also extra deltav
Yup. Having enough deltav to deorbit to 0 at a whim makes it quite easy. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 19, 2014, 05:37:01 pm
Well, I've got plenty of Δv, but I have a track record of landing dozens of kilometers off-target.
The problem is less fuel and more frustration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 19, 2014, 10:30:11 pm
Updated my Interstellar Quest mods for .23.5 (sans infernal robotics). Decided I needed to figure out how to launch some massive stations and such. Specifically, I was trying to launch some simple modular hangar bays. Testing for hours gave explodey results from launching 1 at a time; it was built primarily with wings and so FAR won't let it fly straight. So I tried launching 2, rotated against one another to counteract the aerodynamic instability. It got off the pad, accelerated to 200m/s, and promptly flipped over due to aerodynamic drag on the front of the rocket.

So I created a monstrosity. The rocket used to launch it is built pod-racer style, with the engines up front and payload behind. Here's what it looks like in the construction hangar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And in a 200km orbit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Works quite well with this mod setup; and could probably be reused to launch all sorts of other highly aerodynamically unstable payloads.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts forDangerousMunission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 20, 2014, 09:32:50 am
I'd again like to ask what the Part Welder people were gushing over that was used to make the Borg Cube is. Sounds like something that could be used to make big craft without insane partcount.

Also, why is the title complaining about being too long now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 20, 2014, 09:58:27 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 20, 2014, 09:32:50 am
I'd again like to ask what the Part Welder people were gushing over that was used to make the Borg Cube is. Sounds like something that could be used to make big craft without insane partcount.

Also, why is the title complaining about being too long now?
Part Welder - UbioZur Welding Ltd. - is literally what it says on the tin. It allows to weld parts - well, subassemblies - into a single part, so that the physics engine treats it all as one part, thus reducing the part count and speeding up your game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 20, 2014, 10:13:12 am
The mod is "[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0" http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/38577-0-22-UbioZur-Welding-Ltd-2-0-Playtest-5-Now-In-Game-Tool (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/38577-0-22-UbioZur-Welding-Ltd-2-0-Playtest-5-Now-In-Game-Tool)
It says .22 so I would be dubious on if it works properly on 23.5, but it seems to be allright.
The way it works is similar to how sub-assemblies work, you grab a stack of parts and drag it over to the icon which says "Weld it" and then after a minute a window pops up asking what you want to name it and what category you want it placed in.
A few things I have noticed;
A) Welded parts can only be placed from their center, they lose edge connection capability - Careful placement of girders or whatever may be required to get large pieces attached where you want them.
B) Welded parts only attach at the center, the edges stay unconnected to whatever you shove them onto - Judicious use of struts and extra panels will be required to maintain rigidity of the complete craft.
C) Attempting to weld together parts that have already been welded may result in incorrect orientation of parts - Plan carefully ahead on what parts you will be welding, you only have one shot.
D) Welding breaks fuel lines and struts - Add them after the weld
F) Welding breaks most complicated components - i haven't tested them all, but I have found the following to not work properly after welding:
-Fuel tanks
-Solar panels
-Control surfaces
However when I welded that 747 I linked to earlier in the thread, I found the engines still worked, and the Part still had a cockpit, reaction wheel, etc.
G) Welded part appears indestructable - every crash test shows the complete craft disassembling at the struts and connecting girders, whilst the panels just tumble wildly and settle to the ground.
H) The part retains all preexisting connection nodes - For instance my panels still had the node in the center of each 2x2 it was made from; 121 per side
I) The game seems to treat the part entirely as one object for purposes of physics - There was no noticable lag when using over 700 welded parts, usually a craft of a few hundred causes massive lag for my pc.
J) The part may have stability issues during timewarp - In one test the cube exploded at x2 warp whilst at full throttle in atmosphere, however It was fine at very high time warp while in space; further testing is needed.
K) Attachments to welded parts may be weaker than you expect - I had engines and fuel tanks falling off the cube when attached using large docking ports, a couple of struts held them in place.

TLDR; Use the mod to join large structural or cosmetic parts, then build the rest of your rocket around it

Edit: My next test will involve daisy chaining several cubes together to see what's necessary to join very large items successfully.
Eidit: Actually it is possible to edit the part by opening it's config file and altering it's properties, you should be able to get it's edge connection working again and most of it's other properties too, but I had no success when i tried, the forum might help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 20, 2014, 11:50:25 am
So, since I joined DERPA, I decided to mess around with the ARM stuff.

Basically, new engines are orgasmic, asteroids are stupid and can go die :P

To elaborate, normally I have the issue of "The stage I expected to be my "get me to space" stage tends to not do that, so the stage that I intend as "circularize me" has to do extra lifting, and so on and so forth.

This time, I had exactly the opposite happen, the stage I expected to get me to space did that, continued till I was at about 100 km, and still had fuel left to get the circularization halfway done. Note that I have no idea how to gravity turn, so my orbits are naturally inefficient.

As for that bastardroid (:P) it was an E class, naturally, and it was difficult getting myself in the correct inclination to catch up to the bastard, which was unfortunately not at its periapse as I intended, when I finally rendezvoused with the damn thing I had about half my fuel left, so I thought I would be fine.
Nope. Turns out, its basically impossible to get a point near the center of mass of that thing while still pointing retrograde in its orbit. Which meant that every time I thought I had the thing "Lined up" so to speak, IT WOULD START ROTATING. I kept trying to use the klaw's pivot to correct for this, but no dice, its pretty much a lost cause.

Note that I had no RCS too, so all this was using the engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 20, 2014, 12:07:07 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 20, 2014, 11:50:25 am
So, since I joined DERPA, I decided to mess around with the ARM stuff.

Basically, new engines are orgasmic, asteroids are stupid and can go die :P

To elaborate, normally I have the issue of "The stage I expected to be my "get me to space" stage tends to not do that, so the stage that I intend as "circularize me" has to do extra lifting, and so on and so forth.

This time, I had exactly the opposite happen, the stage I expected to get me to space did that, continued till I was at about 100 km, and still had fuel left to get the circularization halfway done. Note that I have no idea how to gravity turn, so my orbits are naturally inefficient.

As for that bastardroid (:P) it was an E class, naturally, and it was difficult getting myself in the correct inclination to catch up to the bastard, which was unfortunately not at its periapse as I intended, when I finally rendezvoused with the damn thing I had about half my fuel left, so I thought I would be fine.
Nope. Turns out, its basically impossible to get a point near the center of mass of that thing while still pointing retrograde in its orbit. Which meant that every time I thought I had the thing "Lined up" so to speak, IT WOULD START ROTATING. I kept trying to use the klaw's pivot to correct for this, but no dice, its pretty much a lost cause.

Note that I had no RCS too, so all this was using the engine.
You could have just attached at whichever point you could, facing its center of mass, and then rotated it... if your rocket has any length then your thrust-vectored engines would make a perfect lever to turn even an E class.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 20, 2014, 12:55:01 pm
@Marc

Warping in atmosphere is bad and will generally cause explosions for any craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 20, 2014, 01:04:53 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on April 20, 2014, 12:55:01 pm
@Marc

Warping in atmosphere is bad and will generally cause explosions for any craft.
I physwarp my reentering SSTOs all the time. With the new joints there is hardly any deformation, and the biggest problem is the inaccurate SAS response, so the plane dips down or may intermittently wobble and alter heading.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 20, 2014, 01:06:39 pm
Oh, alright :P
Haven't played the newest version yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eotyrannus on April 20, 2014, 01:22:23 pm
Nearly got into a Mun orbit for the first time. I accidentally went past it. Jeb is now lost in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2014, 08:18:48 pm
Careful of giant invisible monsters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 20, 2014, 08:19:59 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 20, 2014, 08:18:48 pm
Careful of giant invisible monsters.

AKA "Don't let the Kraken bite!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2014, 08:23:05 pm
Different giant invisible monster.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 20, 2014, 10:03:26 pm
Started using space stations for something useful for like the first time ever.
Spoiler: Spacelab-1 (click to show/hide)
It's getting rather crowded on Spacelab-1. It's in a nice, low orbit over Minmus, and serves as a supply, science warehouse, and cleaning station for my Minmus science landers. In the image are also the (obsolete) DSS-1 Deep Space Science lander, its replacement, the DSS-2 Deep Space Science lander, and the DSCT-1 Deep Space Crew Transport. I think it's actually my first space station to save IRL time on getting science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on April 20, 2014, 10:35:57 pm
I was screwing around with setting up a space station when I saw an object go flying through the Kerbin system and remembered that enough time had passed for the starter asteroid cloud to start passing by.  I've almost maxed out the tech tree (I like playing with the restrictions of campaign mode) so I hastily slapped together a rocket to catch the next intercept.  Given my past difficulties with docking it was absolute miracle that I managed to catch it on the far edges of the system, but the rocket used almost all of it's fuel just getting there so I couldn't do anything with it.

I have a tendency to build rockets to exactly the capability that I think they'll need, which usually results in them being inadequate for the job (as the field of stranded landers on the Mun can attest).  I don't like having a bunch of extra rocket left over at each stage of a mission, because then I have to plan around the thing.

For the next asteroid though, I didn't want to screw around.  It was a class B instead of the first's C and would pass much closer to Kerbin, but I'd wasted enough time to screw up again.  So I did what probably everyone has done with the latest version and made this:

Spoiler: The sound of the apocalypse. (click to show/hide)

It practically walks off the launch pad and burns up all the booster stages just getting near orbit, but the main stage left over is enough to put the robotic catcher almost anywhere in Kerbin's SOI.  This is great, because the boosters are automatically disposed of and the rest will be on some weird unique orbit.  Turns out though, class B's are lighter than I expected, so the catcher was able to put it at a perfectly planar 5000km orbit just waiting for a science team, with over 3/4 of its fuel left.  After I get all the science out of it, maybe I'll crash it into the ocean.

Feeling pretty good about that, mastering the rather difficult new feature on the third second attempt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 21, 2014, 09:54:55 am
Oh well, time to play KSP again!
I start up a career mode save with most interstellar quest mods, excluding the actual interstellar quest, deadly reentry and TAC liffe support.
I do some science, and then organize a munar flyby because it gives faster science.
Everything goes according to plan, yay, i spent quite some time on this.

AND THEN I WARP STRAIGHT INTO KERBIN AND I EXPLODE
FUUUUUUUUUUCK

Well, that was it for my motivation to play ksp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 21, 2014, 10:00:35 am
And that's how miauw learned to use quicksave :D


Also, I think I've done a lot of the science I can for the Mun and Minmus, and still haven't unlocked nuclear engines. I'm wondering how I can get the 300 science I need for that. Will grabbing an asteroid and Doing Things With It™ give me enough science? Or should I just try to find more biomes to grab little dirt pieces of?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 21, 2014, 11:01:42 am
You should be able to max the tech tree with Kerbin and its moons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2014, 12:17:19 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 21, 2014, 11:01:42 am
You should be able to max the tech tree with Kerbin and its moons.
might be using a non-vanilla tech tree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 21, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
I think all I've got is Kethane, really. I guess I should just have a deeper look at the science screen that I keep forgetting to visit, and maybe have a kethane powered probe that can easily visit all biomes? Not sure how to find new biomes though. I should also probably attach a lab. I have this habit of getting every single one of my things back to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 21, 2014, 01:31:26 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on April 21, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
I think all I've got is Kethane, really. I guess I should just have a deeper look at the science screen that I keep forgetting to visit, and maybe have a kethane powered probe that can easily visit all biomes? Not sure how to find new biomes though. I should also probably attach a lab. I have this habit of getting every single one of my things back to Kerbin.

The official wiki has maps of the biomes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 21, 2014, 02:53:13 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 21, 2014, 01:31:26 pm
The official wiki has maps of the biomes.

Thanks! Whenever I get time, I guess it's time to produce the Crater Hopper Mk I! :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2014, 02:53:37 pm
kinda hard to match the map to the landscape, however. I'd love a mod that gives you a tooltip of a biome when hovering on a planet in map mode.

maybe should be unknown until you do a low space eva or tied to a scanning satellite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 21, 2014, 03:44:01 pm
Could work like the probes for Kethane!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 21, 2014, 04:29:52 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2014, 02:53:37 pm
kinda hard to match the map to the landscape, however. I'd love a mod that gives you a tooltip of a biome when hovering on a planet in map mode.

MechJeb does this now. Use the landing module.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 21, 2014, 08:55:24 pm
3.75m interstellar mod reactors make the best rocket engines ever. (interstellar allows you to put a thermal rocket nozzle on a reactor) I am now going to build an interplanetary spesship using this technology, complete with a bunch of little drones to fly down and science the planets.

Also, I have developed a burning desire to hear Scott Manley say "No true Scotsman would use MechJeb!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 21, 2014, 09:00:59 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on April 21, 2014, 09:54:55 am
Oh well, time to play KSP again!
I start up a career mode save with most interstellar quest mods, excluding the actual interstellar quest, deadly reentry and TAC liffe support.
I do some science, and then organize a munar flyby because it gives faster science.
Everything goes according to plan, yay, i spent quite some time on this.

AND THEN I WARP STRAIGHT INTO KERBIN AND I EXPLODE
FUUUUUUUUUUCK

Well, that was it for my motivation to play ksp.
That's what Kerbal Alarm Clock is in that set of mods for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 21, 2014, 10:07:15 pm
I've modded an asteroid to 50,000 tons, I'm now conducting science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 21, 2014, 10:33:25 pm
As is becoming a recurring theme in my career mode games, an intended munar mission wound up in interplanetary space. As it had state-of-the-art comms technology, it was able to transmit a load of science. Now, the kerbals within have 38 days until the life support runs out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 21, 2014, 10:51:26 pm
No chance of a rescue mission? :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 12:14:19 am
Quote from: tahujdt on April 21, 2014, 08:55:24 pm
3.75m interstellar mod reactors make the best rocket engines ever. (interstellar allows you to put a thermal rocket nozzle on a reactor) I am now going to build an interplanetary spesship using this technology, complete with a bunch of little drones to fly down and science the planets.

Also, I have developed a burning desire to hear Scott Manley say "No true Scotsman would use MechJeb!"

Between warp and vacuum powered engines you can go anywhere without atmosphere and never refuel that vessel. You just have to fuel your power network. Is it overpowered? Not really. Warp is funky. It either takes loads of time for alignment or knowing how to slow down or speed up via gravity really well.

I started altering a b9 plane for ssto and damn but tail fins suck in space. Argh, my center of mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 22, 2014, 09:13:53 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 21, 2014, 10:51:26 pm
No chance of a rescue mission? :(
In 38 days? Well, maybe MechJeb can handle it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 22, 2014, 09:36:03 am
Quote from: tahujdt on April 22, 2014, 09:13:53 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 21, 2014, 10:51:26 pm
No chance of a rescue mission? :(
In 38 days? Well, maybe MechJeb can handle it...

38 days is plenty for a Mun mission. If you can back up the save and make a mod list, it can make a neat challenge scenario.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 22, 2014, 10:07:05 am
Yeah, consider it a challenge. With enough deltaV you can get to the moon in 38 minutes!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 10:39:56 am
Round trip slingshot to and from the Mun is a day or so. 100km orbit around Kerbin is 1 hour, so it's a maximum of 1 hour to lineup a burn to the Mun or Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 22, 2014, 11:01:06 am
Perhaps, then, I can simply ship them another ship, equipped for a ten-year mission. Or maybe I can just let them die. The first one sounds more fun, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 11:15:04 am
Quote from: tahujdt on April 22, 2014, 11:01:06 am
Perhaps, then, I can simply ship them another ship, equipped for a ten-year mission. Or maybe I can just let them die. The first one sounds more fun, though.

Might as well make them a permanent home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 22, 2014, 11:37:56 am
I almost managed to bring my Mun science back to Kerbin, I was already in the atmosphere.
AND THEN KSP FROZE
/me froths violently
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 22, 2014, 11:39:13 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 22, 2014, 11:37:56 am
I almost managed to bring my Mun science back to Kerbin, I was already in the atmosphere.
AND THEN KSP FROZE
/me froths violently
IIRC quicksaves last forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 22, 2014, 11:41:11 am
Quote from: Graknorke on April 22, 2014, 11:39:13 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 22, 2014, 11:37:56 am
I almost managed to bring my Mun science back to Kerbin, I was already in the atmosphere.
AND THEN KSP FROZE
/me froths violently
IIRC quicksaves last forever.
Phew.
Not all is lost!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 01:22:55 pm
Here's my basic C class asteroid catcher with Interstellar parts. Nothing fancy. I have not tested it on D's and it needs a bit of a rebuild. I need to use an inline radiator in front of the panel radiators to give some space between them and the klaw. I've lost panels to an asteroid bobbing about.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 22, 2014, 01:23:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
HUGE SUCCES
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 01:25:54 pm
I hate mountains. *roll* *explode*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 22, 2014, 01:44:40 pm
IIRC, MechJeb has a surface info function that displays true altitude as well as ASL altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 22, 2014, 02:09:13 pm
How possible is it to make multi-jointed arms out of girders and claws, using the gimbaling function to articulate the arm?

I'm guessing you'd need some sort of torque generator at each joint, and would have to make generous use of the "control from here" feature while disabling torque on your other flywheels...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 22, 2014, 02:10:17 pm
Quote from: puke on April 22, 2014, 02:09:13 pm
How possible is it to make multi-jointed arms out of girders and claws, using the gimbaling function to articulate the arm?

I'm guessing you'd need some sort of torque generator at each joint, and would have to make generous use of the "control from here" feature while disabling torque on your other flywheels...
If you use the DamnedInfernal Robotics mod, that's possible. Do the ARM claws even move on their own? I thought it was just 'locked' or 'unlocked' in which case they'd just flop around
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 22, 2014, 02:15:12 pm
You can theoretically do a controlled canadarm out of jointed girders, but you won't have anything resembling fine control.

And the Infernal Robotics mod doesn't seem to work with the 23.5 update yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 22, 2014, 02:20:10 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 22, 2014, 02:15:12 pm
You can theoretically do a controlled canadarm out of jointed girders, but you won't have anything resembling fine control.

And the Infernal Robotics mod doesn't seem to work with the 23.5 update yet.


0.14 marked stable as of nao http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-5-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-14-stable%29?highlight=robotic

notice two open bugs (docking and some menu issue)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 22, 2014, 10:35:41 pm
So I need some design help with mah spaceplane things.

The first is a theoretical SSTA (Single Stage to Anywhere) consisting of a rapier engine and two ions. The problem this one is having is that after a certain altitude, regardless of the state of intakes, mode of the engine, or seemingly any other variables, it flips the hell out. I've actually recovered and gotten it suborbital before, but I'm confident if I manage to keep it stable I could go full orbital and then go pretty much anywhere with the ions.

Spoiler: SSTA (click to show/hide)

Could the problem be the odd positioning of the radial intake/ion structure? Its not balanced out on the bottom, so would that cause serious issues? If so, why doesn't this happen during my ascent?

Second is my "Duna Rove-Plane" which, obviously, is intended to be dropped from orbit onto Duna or Laythe, glide to the ground, and then be able to explore with its rover wheels. Its also intended to be able to take off again and hopefully get at least suborbital so that it can be retrieved by the insertion craft.
The problem with this one is that it is having...issues...landing. It was hell balancing the thing so it can actually fly straight, but I managed it, however now it pretty much flips out and explodes if its wheels touch down at any speed above 30 m/s, despite the wheels I used advertising a impact threshold of 100 m/s.

Spoiler: Hybrids can be sexy too! (click to show/hide)

I..honestly don't know how the hell to fix this, my only ideas so far are "reduce the speed of touchdown" which would best be done by parachutes, but by that point we pretty much defeat the purpose of the design.

Finally, just for fun, share in the hilarity of the first thing I made in the ARM update:

Spoiler: PLANETARDO (click to show/hide)

Interestingly, its wings actually display a small degree of FLAPPING while in "flight"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 22, 2014, 10:40:50 pm
Your center of mass isn't centered, so it flips in vacuumm
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 22, 2014, 10:53:51 pm
The center of mass not being in line with the center of thrust probably doesn't help, but I'm more inclined to say that your SSTO is becoming unstable because its center of lift is too far forward, a problem which would get worse as you burn fuel. Adding a tailplane might help, and a vertical stabilizer probably wouldn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 22, 2014, 11:36:23 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 22, 2014, 10:35:41 pm
So I need some design help with mah spaceplane things.

The first is a theoretical SSTA (Single Stage to Anywhere) consisting of a rapier engine and two ions. The problem this one is having is that after a certain altitude, regardless of the state of intakes, mode of the engine, or seemingly any other variables, it flips the hell out. I've actually recovered and gotten it suborbital before, but I'm confident if I manage to keep it stable I could go full orbital and then go pretty much anywhere with the ions.

Spoiler: SSTA (click to show/hide)

Could the problem be the odd positioning of the radial intake/ion structure? Its not balanced out on the bottom, so would that cause serious issues? If so, why doesn't this happen during my ascent?
Two glaring errors I see with this. Very glaring. One, vertical stabilizers are a thing, and you don't have any. You can probably keep drift in check with the gimbaling thruster, but if you ever have to glide...
Two, offset center of mass. Not so much the offset as the singular engine it's put up against. As you're leaving the atmosphere, your center of mass shifts backwards, and if I'm reading the craft right it pretty much parks on top of your center of lift. Which means that for that short transitory period you've got a nearly uncontrollable craft that tries its darnedest to spin out.

Best course of action I can suggest is: One, counterbalance the ion+intake array by putting the batteries and some RCS tanks on the bottom, so that the center of mass is more in line with the engine. Really, having some RCS is good, just don't overdo it. As an alternative, pluck off your wings and mount them lower, engines and all. If you use angle snap, you can pretty accurately re-level the off-center wings with small increment rotations.
 Two, tack on some outriggers or girders to extend backwards past the engine, and add a small control surface as a rudder, and anything you want as an elevator, on each. This'll help you when you inevitably have to glide to land anywhere.

As for the rover - the wheels might have a good impact tolerance, but they won't handle more than 30m/s of speed. You need aircraft landing gear if you want to land at high speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 23, 2014, 12:33:29 am
For the rover you could just position some aircraft landing gear so that the rover rests on them while they are down but on the rover wheels when they are up. Though I have my doubts about its ability to glide on Duna with those tiny wings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 23, 2014, 09:08:06 am
Holy crap. I just got a Jool encounter by burning straight up from the Launchpad at Kerbin.... the new engines are HILARIOUSLY overpowered :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 23, 2014, 09:59:14 am
Overpowered or powered just right to lift 500 ton craft?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2014, 10:03:03 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 23, 2014, 09:08:06 am
Holy crap. I just got a Jool encounter by burning straight up from the Launchpad at Kerbin.... the new engines are HILARIOUSLY overpowered :P
Before you declare something overpowered, let's see your craft. With a sufficient percentage of mass devoted to engine and fuel you can do this with any craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2014, 11:26:14 am
Yup. Won't say overpowered until you can get to beat the current 20% payload fraction to orbit with ease.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55615-0-22-0-23-0-Payload-Fraction-Challenge
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 23, 2014, 06:39:03 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2014, 11:26:14 am
Yup. Won't say overpowered until you can get to beat the current 20% payload fraction to orbit with ease.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55615-0-22-0-23-0-Payload-Fraction-Challenge

I think its telling that the moment the new engines came out, they cancelled this challenge, and listed the new engines as the reason :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2014, 06:40:45 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 23, 2014, 06:39:03 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2014, 11:26:14 am
Yup. Won't say overpowered until you can get to beat the current 20% payload fraction to orbit with ease.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55615-0-22-0-23-0-Payload-Fraction-Challenge

I think its telling that the moment the new engines came out, they cancelled this challenge, and listed the new engines as the reason :P
I think you may be reading too much into that. The challenge is only valid if you have a limited pool of specific engines. Throwing new engines into it could invalidate old winners and old data, and really its better to start a new one when things change.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2014, 07:34:59 pm
yeah, I am just stating this - if you can get to 25% payload fraction using 0.23.5, then the new engines are more efficient/op/whatever you wish


doesn't change a thing (especially when using interstellar XD)

anyway, not to say you can't do crazy things with the new boosters (http://imgur.com/a/3FBH0 single stage to duna)

looking at results from here:
http://garycourt.github.io/korc/
Rockomax 24-77 and aerospikes are the preferred for small payloads, while larger payload require the new heavy lifter. sounds about right

you can also check the mass optimal charts here: http://imgur.com/a/OS6bk#5
unless I am mistaken, the new stuff rarely come into play unless you need huge twr

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 23, 2014, 10:01:02 pm
Yup. The most important part about the new stuff is that it cuts down on the hassle, fuel management, construction, and physics jiggling resulting from strapping together asparagus staging for similar TWRs on decent sized payloads. And that's why the Saturn V beat the N1 to the Moon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)#Problems) :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 24, 2014, 10:55:35 am
I recently downloaded a mod which adds the Orion Drive (nukes propelling your spacecraft) to KSP. Rather than use the Drive to enter orbit...I built boosters. Big ones.

(http://i.imgur.com/Klj1BQh.png)

Remarkably, it didn’t need much thrust, despite the huge size of the payload. That’s the ARM rockets for ya. By 20-30 kilometers, I had the thrust down at ⅓. Remarkably, they managed to get me into orbit (though a less circular one than intended). I discovered at this point that the decouplers were set up wrong. Ah well.
I need to fly that thing somewhere now.

Quote from: tahujdt on April 21, 2014, 08:55:24 pm
Also, I have developed a burning desire to hear Scott Manley say "No true Scotsman would use MechJeb!"
::)

Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 22, 2014, 02:20:10 pm
0.14 marked stable as of nao http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-5-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-14-stable%29?highlight=robotic
notice two open bugs (docking and some menu issue)
Awesome!
What's "the docking bug"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on April 25, 2014, 01:57:06 pm
You know what would be a great addition to the game? alien structures/machinery! we've all heard all those conspiracy theories about why NASA never went back to the moon (one says that the moon is filled with aliens and they warned the astronauts to never revisit the moon, I find it hard to believe but oh well...) wouldn't it be cool if there were alien structures on some parts of the Mun?
Weird looking stations, abandoned rovers, probes crashed on or in orbit of the Mun
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on April 25, 2014, 02:00:06 pm
i think it'd be great to have an abandoned alien research station just chilling at an almost-impossible orbit around the moon

the challenge is to capture it and bring it to kerbin for lodse science
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 25, 2014, 02:00:38 pm
Spoiler: About that... (easter egg spoilers) (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 25, 2014, 02:01:58 pm
You can already find easter eggs like that. Nothing too major, just the odd monolith, crashed flying saucer, or dead space kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2014, 02:07:07 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on April 25, 2014, 02:00:06 pm
i think it'd be great to have an abandoned alien research station just chilling at an almost-impossible orbit around the moon

the challenge is to capture it and bring it to kerbin for lodse science
You could probably do something like this with a mod if they have exposed the functions for generating asteroids. Make an 'asteroid' using a certain model and containing science data for recovery or transmission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 25, 2014, 02:55:28 pm
Quote from: Lt_Alfred on April 25, 2014, 01:57:06 pm
You know what would be a great addition to the game? alien structures/machinery! we've all heard all those conspiracy theories about why NASA never went back to the moon (one says that the moon is filled with aliens and they warned the astronauts to never revisit the moon, I find it hard to believe but oh well...) wouldn't it be cool if there were alien structures on some parts of the Mun?
Weird looking stations, abandoned rovers, probes crashed on or in orbit of the Mun
What do you guys think?
Eh. Kinda screws with the atmosphere of KSP.

Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2014, 02:07:07 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on April 25, 2014, 02:00:06 pm
i think it'd be great to have an abandoned alien research station just chilling at an almost-impossible orbit around the moon

the challenge is to capture it and bring it to kerbin for lodse science
You could probably do something like this with a mod if they have exposed the functions for generating asteroids. Make an 'asteroid' using a certain model and containing science data for recovery or transmission.
That would work well. Can you mod new types of "asteroids"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2014, 02:57:07 pm
I'm not sure if those functions are exposed for modding. I'll do a bit of research this weekend though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2014, 03:17:09 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 25, 2014, 03:15:06 pm
I wonder if it'd be possible to make a tech which can ONLY be unlocked via certain circumstances.
If mods can unlock techs then the mission controller mod would work for that so I'd start there if I were you. Have a chat with the modder who makes mission controller.

Could make a nice mission style progression instead of science based. Or split it so that you have mission milestones before you can proceed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 25, 2014, 07:30:07 pm
Quote from: greatorder on April 25, 2014, 03:15:06 pm
I wonder if it'd be possible to make a tech which can ONLY be unlocked via certain circumstances.
Even if not, I'm 90% certain you can get science from near asteroids.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kcwong on April 25, 2014, 11:27:13 pm
... I'll just leave this here.

Spoiler: They built a WHAT? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 25, 2014, 11:40:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sus6X0w1Zow
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2014, 12:43:17 am
As awesome as the jeager is, I'm actually surprised at the design of the car that makes an appearance around 5 minutes in, It looks far better than the utility I built, I need to knock off teh design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 26, 2014, 12:47:48 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 25, 2014, 11:40:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sus6X0w1Zow
The thing that flipped me out the most about this?

HIS KERBALS HAVE NO HELMETS. HOW DID HE DO DAT?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2014, 01:06:14 am
I think one of the things in universe replacer allows you to mod the Kerbals themselv, i've seen one series on youtube where the kerbs have beards and hair gasp
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 26, 2014, 04:03:25 am
I demand a to-scale Kerno Alpha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on April 26, 2014, 05:30:41 am
Quote from: kcwong on April 25, 2014, 11:27:13 pm
... I'll just leave this here.

Spoiler: They built a WHAT? (click to show/hide)

THEY BUILT A GUNDAM FIGHTER!!! (that's what that is right?)

Oh Pacific rim... didn't get t because I didn't watch the movie.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 26, 2014, 05:55:21 am
To be fair, a Gundam would be rather harder to pull off. That doesn't mean I haven't thought about making a Strike....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on April 26, 2014, 06:47:07 am
Check this out man!!

http://imgur.com/a/5jf4p
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/20q7tf/fully_operational_kerbal_gundam/

the reddit page has craft files.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 26, 2014, 06:39:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 26, 2014, 12:47:48 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 25, 2014, 11:40:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sus6X0w1Zow
The thing that flipped me out the most about this?

HIS KERBALS HAVE NO HELMETS. HOW DID HE DO DAT?
It's an adjustable feature in Texture Replacer. It also supports persistent Kerbal faces!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2014, 06:45:59 pm
The gundam does look awesome, but mr roboto looks good too. And walks like a drunken Kerbal on Ike.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2014, 02:08:05 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on April 26, 2014, 06:39:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 26, 2014, 12:47:48 am
Quote from: Putnam on April 25, 2014, 11:40:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sus6X0w1Zow
The thing that flipped me out the most about this?

HIS KERBALS HAVE NO HELMETS. HOW DID HE DO DAT?
It's an adjustable feature in Texture Replacer. It also supports persistent Kerbal faces!

Randomized persisted faces! My jeb is a she.  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2014, 02:18:56 am
Jebedinah Kerman?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 27, 2014, 02:28:47 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2014, 02:08:05 am
Randomized persisted faces! My jeb is a she.  :o
And you can also select faces if you find the possibility of girl-Jeb disquieting. Personally, I like to take a page from Black Adder and make girl-Bob.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 27, 2014, 02:25:39 pm
Where's the option that lets your orbit predictor predict through more SoI transitions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2014, 02:34:55 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 27, 2014, 02:25:39 pm
Where's the option that lets your orbit predictor predict through more SoI transitions?
In the config file. They should probably move it into the game proper sometime.

Settings.cfg in the KSP directory, parameter name CONIC_PATCH_LIMIT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on April 27, 2014, 03:25:33 pm
Or at least mention it somewhere sensible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 28, 2014, 01:53:57 am
Pesky ninja! I just answered this in your LP thread :p.
Anyway, I seem to have screwed up my asteroid mission and the rock I rendezvoused with was not the one i hacked to 50,000 tons.
But anyhow I put that into an inclined orbit around kerbin and then hacked it to 50,000 tons.
The next time I loaded up I found it's path was now only half around kerbin then changing back into a solar one.
Thankfully the solar orbit is rather circular and very flat/close to/similar speed as kerbin so it should be rather easier for this attempt.
Finally I did some quick calculations, and I think I can get it into kerbin orbit with a mere 200 tons of fuel and a bunch of LV-N's, but I haven't yet calculated how long the burn will take.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 28, 2014, 02:32:52 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 28, 2014, 01:53:57 am
Pesky ninja! I just answered this in your LP thread :p.
Anyway, I seem to have screwed up my asteroid mission and the rock I rendezvoused with was not the one i hacked to 50,000 tons.
But anyhow I put that into an inclined orbit around kerbin and then hacked it to 50,000 tons.
The next time I loaded up I found it's path was now only half around kerbin then changing back into a solar one.
Thankfully the solar orbit is rather circular and very flat/close to/similar speed as kerbin so it should be rather easier for this attempt.
Finally I did some quick calculations, and I think I can get it into kerbin orbit with a mere 200 tons of fuel and a bunch of LV-N's, but I haven't yet calculated how long the burn will take.
Probably a few hours :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 28, 2014, 05:52:38 am
So obviously what you need to do is make a super complex system including 400000 tons of fuel and 8 of those new super engines, y'know the REALLY big ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 28, 2014, 08:25:10 am
The biggest problem I foresee is the weakness of the grabbing claw, I've already broken several during testing on a 150 ton asteroid, I'm thinking I might need to use Infernal rocketry pistons attached to additional claws in order to get a better hold on the thing.

Also I've determined a way of moving planet killer asteroids using underpowered atomic/ION engines without having to kill the rotation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Much saner idea, mount each engine inside a gimbol which can feed it with fuel, then arrange engines all over the surface of the asteroid, basically a 3 dimensional AZIPOD . Keep each engine burning while constantly facing in the same direction. Then you don't need to cancel the objects rotation at all (well, some cancellation will occur from moving the gimbols). The energy required to move a few hundred/thousand tons of machinery would be nothing compared to that needed to cancel the rotation of a 2 trillion ton asteroid.

Edit: Of course the engines who's exhaust impact the asteroid would basically waste fuel so they could be throttled down.
I think I might be able to test this using Infernal robotics washers and RCS thrusters. Actually, I might be able to do it with mechjeb, if I put a rocket inside a huge gimbol attached to a rock, then tell mechjeb to go somewhere It should use reaction wheels/RCS to keep the rocket facing whatever direction mechjeb needs to make the burn in no matter what the rock is doing.  I could put extra  rockets on the rock to change it's rotation and then observe what happens to MJ.
The easiest way of doing this would be to open up an asteroid inside the VAB then attach stuff to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2014, 01:17:18 pm
You could attach multiple independent engines each  with their claw, align them all with the asteroid velocity vector, lock the claw in place then use the davon thrust control mod to keep the trust centered without overloading a single claw.

Fuel balancer would be useful here to feed all engines with docked tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 28, 2014, 02:10:03 pm
And you dont have to figure out the side bits exact size.
Because unless you have extencable ones, that plan is gonna need it EXACT.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 28, 2014, 09:06:57 pm
I'm designing a 300 ton payload lifter, but mechjeb isn't telling me the delta v for my first stages, so I'm resorting to guesswork and using a ratio of 1 part payload to 2 parts second stage to 5 parts first stage ( more efficient would probably be 1 part payload:1.89 parts second stage:3.78 parts first stage). First stage flames out at about 20 kilometers, second stage finishes the orbital burn with 14,000 fuel left.
The payload is 7 orange tanks and 6 1/4 orange tanks, with one of the largest RCS tanks, and 6 LV-N,s a grabbing claw and a bunch of landing legs arranged near the claw as stabalizers.
The last stage has 14 km/s of delta V, and I think the left over fuel in the second stage is about 160 tons so using the 6 KR-2L's in that stage there should be around 170m/s DV there. However I think I can remove half the KR-2L's and get the second stage into orbit with only .5 TWR. the saved would help DV, finally I might shove an LVN onto that stage so I can squeeze extra DV out of it.
I also found that those rockomax 24s are awesome for correcting annoying roll, just shove a bunch onto the base of your rocket tilted 5 degrees towards the roll, then throttle them down untill you find the right setting. Previously I had 2 dozen large ASAS and over a hundred RCS nozzles which did nothing for the roll.

Edit :Well the game doesn't like my asteroid hacking, after saving and reloading I find the asteroid has always been restored to 89 tons, a shame.
I guess I'll go back to my LP, or my megaconstruction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2014, 06:15:25 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on April 28, 2014, 08:29:45 pm
You know it's too much KSP when you're thinking about stories, and you mentally replace climax with apoapsis.
"Oh baby I'm reaching apogee! Don't stop!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 29, 2014, 07:03:38 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2014, 06:15:25 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on April 28, 2014, 08:29:45 pm
You know it's too much KSP when you're thinking about stories, and you mentally replace climax with apoapsis.
"Oh baby I'm reaching apogee! Don't stop!"

Much good, so sig.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 30, 2014, 09:08:17 am
Well, my interplanetary science probe just hit Jool. Much science is to be had.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on April 30, 2014, 04:20:30 pm
Just learned how to use the maneuver-planning command. Suddenly getting to the mun got a whole lot easier. XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 30, 2014, 07:25:18 pm
Some thoughts on mining kethane from Asteroids.

Right now, it's possible to just give asteroids a flat amount of kethane storage, although it is not aware of the size of the asteroid. Hopefully, a workaround will eventually exist, and it could potentially add some degree of randomness, since some asteroids should have lots, and others might have none. However, I decided to work out how much kethane asteroids could conceivably hold.

I assume for this that asteroids have a consistent density and that all asteroids of the same class have about the same volume. I also assume that the outer 2.5 meters of rock, no matter how solid it is, will eventually lose all its kethane to evaporation/sublimation. The remaining body of the rock might be up to 25% "kethane slush" by volume (as I've determined through the highly scientific method of "guessing"), and I assume that any displaced mass is present as either denser surrounding rock or projections of stone on the surface.

A and B class asteroids are too small to retain kethane, but that's only if we assume that kethane requires 2.5 meters of solid rock to stick around. Since we really can't assume much about the orbits asteroids take- players might send them solar skimming, frankly- I'm not going to do blackbody radiation calculations to determine how much kethane they should contain. If you want to give it a try, go right ahead. If you estimate one meter of surface rock, then even A-classes can have a little kethane.

Class C asteroids mass 100 tons- using the average density (derived from the information on the wiki), that's a diameter of 9.3 cubic meters. Subtracting 5 (For a 2.5 m thick layer), that's 4.3m, or 333 cu. m of gas storage space. That works out to about 1.3 orange tanks worth of kethane, which sounds about right.

Class D asteroids mass 400 tons, with a diameter of about 15m, porous d of 9.7, which is 3823 cu. m, about 15 orange tanks.

Class E asteroids are 3000 tons, and have a D of 30. That works out to 65450 cu. m, which is about 250 orange tanks. Yes, 250.

That's all assuming the absolute maximum total capacity. I'd assume that there would be a bell curve of most asteroid having about 50% capacity, with a few that are naturally empty, and a very rare set that are naturally full.

You can use similar calculations to derive the amount of ore from extraplanetary launchpads. I'm assuming that about 10% of the average asteroid by mass would be rich enough to qualify by ore (I know that many asteroids are c-type asteroids with no iron or other ores, EXPL uses one type of ore for everything so we obviously are dealing with some simplifications), so that means that an A-type is 0.04% of a full storage tank, B-type is 10%, C-type is 66%, D-type is 2.5 tanks, and E-type is 20 tanks. However, these aren't maximal values; In fact, having asteroids have wildly varying ore densities, they could have anywhere from 0% to 100% ore; there's quite a few naturally occurring asteroids that are made entirely of nickel-iron. Finding a Class-E motherloade would be a fun event, assuming you can find a way to slow 6000 tons of high-grade ore.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 30, 2014, 08:08:22 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 30, 2014, 07:25:18 pm
Finding a Class-E motherloade would be a fun event, assuming you can find a way to slow 6000 tons of high-grade ore.

What is this "slow" you speak of? You could presumably just BUILD A WHOLE NEW SPACECRAFT on the asteroid. Slowing it wouldn't even enter the picture :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 30, 2014, 08:25:06 pm
Turn it directly into a ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2014, 08:26:56 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 30, 2014, 08:25:06 pm
Turn it directly into a ship.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130503073121/warhammer40k/images/thumb/8/8a/Roks.jpg/250px-Roks.jpg)
I don't see much of a stretch between Kerbal engineering and Ork engineering. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 30, 2014, 08:30:31 pm
I meant something different, but OK.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on April 30, 2014, 10:13:46 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2014, 08:26:56 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 30, 2014, 08:25:06 pm
Turn it directly into a ship.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130503073121/warhammer40k/images/thumb/8/8a/Roks.jpg/250px-Roks.jpg)
I don't see much of a stretch between Kerbal engineering and Ork engineering.
well...
Quote from: FL-T800 Fuel Tank description
The black stripes along the side make the rocket go faster, our engineers tell us.
Quote from: the Ork Codex
DA RED WUNZ GO FASTA
Me neither.

That's gonna be  my  next project now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 30, 2014, 11:45:09 pm
I haven't found any class E asteroids weighing 3000 tons, but I did crash a 900 ton one into the KSC (I cheated :p)
My experiments on making very heavy asteroids was a failure, but I think the game might be ok if i modify one to 5,000 tons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 01, 2014, 11:27:52 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 30, 2014, 07:25:18 pm
Class C asteroids mass 100 tons- using the average density (derived from the information on the wiki), that's a diameter of 9.3 cubic meters.
...
Anyways, screwing with asteroids sounds fun. I should get around to it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 01, 2014, 03:56:38 pm
well, I was quite lucky. I had just launched an oversized mission to the mun ( I wanted to send a lab to space, no matter how useless it actually was),when I noticed an asteroid going through the kerbin system, barely farther than my original target. It did require some orbital plan readjusting, but the mission was oversized enough to do that and have fuel to spare.

However, I am completely devoid of any mean to actually stick to the asteroid, therefore I have a question:
do I get science from goo/materials lab from asteroids? if yes, do I need to land, or is orbiting next to the surface enough? ( I am confident I can park quite close to it)

while I lack claws, there is something else that may work. This mission is carrying 2 landers, which are mounted with their engines facing upward. Is it feasible to use those to push me against the

surface long enough to do reseach?

edit: can only take samples... it still is a decent bit of science.
however, at this point I may want to still get to mun or minmus to make us of all the science equipment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lt_Alfred on May 01, 2014, 05:24:56 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 01, 2014, 03:56:38 pm
while I lack claws, there is something else that may work. This mission is carrying 2 landers, which are mounted with their engines facing upward. Is it feasible to use those to push me against the

surface long enough to do reseach?

You made me lol, not like "oh lol" that people just throw around during conversations but I literally loled at how awesome your plan is.
You good sir are a genius and I salute you!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 01, 2014, 05:47:31 pm
Been having some fun with the latest version. Made a rocket-truck and rolled out to the highlands/grasslands near the KSC. It looked absolutely ridiculous but worked nonetheless. Also made one landing on Minmus, some flights around both Minmus and the Mun, and finally put up a station hub which I intend to use to fuel and launch future missions around the Kerbin system. It unfortunately isn't the most advanced station ever with my limited variety of technologies, but It shouldn't matter much as long as I can retrofit it with new equipment by docking them to it.

Two asteroids I've set my sights on only ~90 and ~100 days away from a kerbin SOI intercept. One class A and one E. Hopefully by then I can actually capture them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2014, 06:04:04 pm
So how have people been getting around the utter uselessness of rovers now? I.E. They were there to land on Mun, drive to each biome, do science, transmit science, drive to next, etc. but now they can't do that with any useful science equipment.

I've been trying to make a manned "rover-train-thing" that includes all the sciencers, a mobile lab, wheels, and preferably a detachable skycrane unit that the Kerbals onboard can ride back to orbit after they're done.
I'm still having issues with the design though, getting the balance right is so hard its silly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: h3lblad3 on May 01, 2014, 06:07:24 pm
You're all talking about some pretty awesome stuff: asteroids, the Mun, etc...

And I can't even get into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 01, 2014, 06:10:30 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 01, 2014, 06:04:04 pm
So how have people been getting around the utter uselessness of rovers now? I.E. They were there to land on Mun, drive to each biome, do science, transmit science, drive to next, etc. but now they can't do that with any useful science equipment.

I've been trying to make a manned "rover-train-thing" that includes all the sciencers, a mobile lab, wheels, and preferably a detachable skycrane unit that the Kerbals onboard can ride back to orbit after they're done.
I'm still having issues with the design though, getting the balance right is so hard its silly.

Spaceplanes are useless too, but that doesn't mean they're boring. Although your idea is pretty cool... I'd plan on just using a separate lander to carry the crew back home, so you can make the vehicle itself lighter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2014, 09:22:10 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 01, 2014, 06:10:30 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 01, 2014, 06:04:04 pm
So how have people been getting around the utter uselessness of rovers now? I.E. They were there to land on Mun, drive to each biome, do science, transmit science, drive to next, etc. but now they can't do that with any useful science equipment.

I've been trying to make a manned "rover-train-thing" that includes all the sciencers, a mobile lab, wheels, and preferably a detachable skycrane unit that the Kerbals onboard can ride back to orbit after they're done.
I'm still having issues with the design though, getting the balance right is so hard its silly.

Spaceplanes are useless too, but that doesn't mean they're boring. Although your idea is pretty cool... I'd plan on just using a separate lander to carry the crew back home, so you can make the vehicle itself lighter.

Hmm, I suppose, but it still needs some kind of skycrane or such to land without the customary explodinating.

Also, unrelated, Launch Escape System+ Infinite Fuel Cheat= Hilarity. I'm trying to land it on Moho right now :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on May 02, 2014, 01:47:42 am
Well finally go around to unlocking enough parts unlocked to actually put together a SSTO since they added the research system. Utilized a previously designed Biplane as a base and pretty much just went for it.

Spoiler: The LRP-2S 'Raven Trident' (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Bonus Touchdown screenshot (click to show/hide)

Bit more adjustments here and there needed but she flies rather nice.

Spoiler: also, the plane it was based off, yeah very similar (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 02, 2014, 07:20:31 am
Quote from: h3lblad3 on May 01, 2014, 06:07:24 pm
You're all talking about some pretty awesome stuff: asteroids, the Mun, etc...

And I can't even get into orbit.
I'm going to quote from another KSP thread.
Quote from: BFEL on April 27, 2014, 09:22:25 pm
Quote from: The Froggy Ninja on April 27, 2014, 08:54:12 pm
I don't know but my ship prototypes have yet to get to orbit much less their destination.

Orbit is easy:
Step 1- Make rocket that doesn't implode
Step 2- Point towards space
Step 3- Get to 70000 meters
Step 4- Point right till at the "horizon" on the navball (part where blue and orange meet)
Step 5- Burn till Periapsis is at least 70000 meters
Step 6- ???
Step 7- Profit

So yeah, that's how you do that. Granted that's certainly not the most efficient way, but its a good start and experience will refine that method down to actual gravity turns, given time.
That's basically it. I'll also helps to learn how to read the Navball. Burn prograde while at apoapsis to raise periapsis, or at periapsis to raise apoapsis. Or burn retrograde at periapsis to lower apoapsis, or retrograde at apoapsis to lower periapsis. You may also find that if you burn enough at apoapsis your apoapsis actually starts to raise, if that happens just delay the rest of your burn untill you catch up with your new higher apoapsis.  I couldn't tell you how to easily burn normal/antinormal, or the other ones, however the advanced navball mod points those out which is helpful if you need it. One other thing I would mention is to aim for a little higher than 70,000 meters for your initial orbit, because if your thrust to weight ratio isn't very high then when you reach your 70,000 meter Apoapsis and start burning to raise your periapsis, you will actually start coming back down into the atmosphere and ypu'll waste fuel to overcome air resistance. If your thrust to weight ratio is very low then you'll never actually manage to get your orbit back above 70 kilometers.
Finally, what do you need to actually get to orbit? Well 3 T800's and an LV-30 or 45 will get a small pod and a bit of other stuff into orbit if you're careful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 02, 2014, 03:08:21 pm
That is... easily the hardest way to get into space. It doesn't even mention that you kinda need to go pretty horizontally most of the way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2014, 03:14:33 pm
Quote from: Putnam on May 02, 2014, 03:08:21 pm
That is... easily the hardest way to get into space. It doesn't even mention that you kinda need to go pretty horizontally most of the way.
It isn't the most efficient way perhaps, but it isn't hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 02, 2014, 03:21:28 pm
I didn't really say it was hard, just the hardest. Least efficient. Not much way to get harder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 02, 2014, 03:28:52 pm
MechJeb teached me how to do gravity turns.
I really recommend getting MechJeb's ascent guidance and turning on the ascent target thingie that makes a thingie appear on your navball that tells you where to point your rocket. I can do gravity turns manually now :v
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 02, 2014, 03:49:35 pm
I've been doing a new game.  Sandbox mode. I've tried to limit myself on mods but I did get KAS just because it's so fun and I'm thinking of getting that one mod I keep seeing in videos with the moving parts and hinges and stuff.  But I don't know what it's called and I want to make sure I'm not getting some half assed ripoff by mistake.

Anyway I have a question (2 if you count me asking what that mod with the hinges is).  My for my new game I have a self imposed rule of not using the rocket launchpad.  I'm trying to make every launch vehicle a spaceplane.  I've had some success with them in the past, but in the past I always had rockets available to put a refueling station into low orbit.
 
I managed to get one lifter into orbit and drop off a starter for a refueling station.  But it seems that I can't get another lifter up there with enough fuel remaining to get close enough to even try docking. Even the flight that dropped off the beginnings of the space station had to drain some of the fuel it was transporting to get to a stable orbit.

Does anybody have a craft file for a functional vanilla spaceplane lifter that I could poke at and use to try to figure out what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 02, 2014, 03:57:46 pm
The hinges mod is Infernal Robotics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 04, 2014, 12:55:54 pm
I'm having more fun playing around with a rover and using it to gather up wrecked spaceplane parts than making the actual spaceplanes.  Have I missed my calling in life?  Am I a born salvager and I just never had the opportunity to learn?  What have I done with my life?

...Oh wait I installed the pistons on backwards.  Clearly I was not cut out to be a salvage engineer.  Life crisis averted.

Quote from: Cmega3 on May 03, 2014, 12:51:26 pm
So, now I have my first five mods. Suggestions for more? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruc3zOwT5xo)

I love me some KAS and as posted above I've been toying around with infernal robotics as well.

KAS adds winches pipes and things like that that can be manipulated from EVA.  It allows kerbals to attach and detach smaller parts from a vessel and use pipes to transfer fuel from one vessel to another without actual docking ports.  Or simply use a winch and an electromagnet to tow it.   You need to make sure at least one of the ships brings along the parts needed to build the connections, but there are some storage containers as well that can be loaded up with misc parts for your kerbals to remove in flight.   Excellent fun with rovers.

Infernal robotics adds functionality for moving parts. causing everything attached to move as well.  I'm not sure how that affects aerodynamics yet, but I imagine it's possible to make wings with variable angles of attack.  I've personally made a rotating telescoping crane and dumptruck system myself, but I've seen videos where people actually make stuff like giant mechs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2014, 01:11:34 pm
I was using infernal robotics with far and in that combination aereodinamic works beautifully.

I was using the shuttle cargo bay door as aerodynamic breaks and improvised flaps when partially deployed :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 04, 2014, 01:40:53 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on May 03, 2014, 12:51:26 pm
So, now I have my first five mods. Suggestions for more? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruc3zOwT5xo)
Adding to the set of "basic things":

Enhanced Navball
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot494_crop.png)
Adds indicators for normal, antinormal, tangent, and cotangent orbital directions, as well as the retrograde maneuver node marker, onto the navball for making adjustments by hand. Also creates "ghosts" of the prograde, retrograde, and prograde maneuver node markers on the edges of the navball when they are not on it.
(in the picture, the ship is facing near the orbit normal, the orbit tangent is to the right, and the "ghosts" for the prograde and retrograde markers are visible)
>Link (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50524-0-23-5-Enhanced-Navball-1-2)<

SelectRoot
(http://i.minus.com/ib0Ja4DgTrrKf0.gif)
Fairly self-explanatory, this complements the subassembly mechanic greatly and goes well with the Editor Extensions.
>Link (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43208-0-22-Oct17-SelectRoot-Set-a-new-root-part-0-22-fixes)<

Simple mods:
Surface Lights
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot608_crop.png)
This mod adds several teeny-tiny lights that are not powerful enough to light up the ground (much), but do a great job of self-illumination for your spacecraft, without whiting out everything with the powerful floodlights.
>Link (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57778-0-22-Surface-Mounted-Stock-Alike-Lights-for-Self-Illumination)<

Mk2 Cockpit Internal View
Pretty much explains itself (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot599.png).
>Link (http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk2cockpitinternals/)<

More complex mods:
Near Future Propulsion
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot543_crop.png)
This one's kind of a rival for the KSP Interstellar mod, but it takes far less upon itself, and does not overcomplicate anything. The mods contains a series of high-efficiency electric propulsion engines that use a variety of fuels, as well as several new means of generating and storing the electricity for them. (pictured: an argon-fueled VASIMR engine-powered asteroid tug, with power provided by the 250kW nuclear powerplant up front, and the two large solar panels on its sides, shown folded) It simply takes the concept used by the existing Ion Thruster, and adds a bunch of content that is based on the real-world applications of the same principle, keeping everything balanced and without going overboard with anything. I highly recommend it.
>Link (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52042-0-23-Near-Future-Propulsion-0-42-%28updated-08-03-14-fixes-new-reactor%29/page26)<

edit: added links
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2014, 02:26:58 pm
as for basic mods, also docking navball
http://kerbalspaceport.com/navball-docking-alignment-indicator/

final frontier to keep track of achievements
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67246-0-23-Final-Frontier-0-3-9

the very handy science alert mod:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76793-0-23-5-ScienceAlert-1-5-Experiment-availability-feedback-(April-26)

I love procedural fairings:
http://kerbalspaceport.com/procedural-fairings/


and the landing height mod:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76320-23-5-%28Apr12-14%29-Landing-Height-Show-distance-from-bottom-of-your-vessel-to-ground

basically thei do not alter the gameplay but makes everything so much streamlined
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2014, 04:36:50 pm
Near Future Propulsion was originally a beefed up extension to Ion drives pre .23. Ion drives have been significantly changed with .23.5. Interstellar is still the go to pack for theoretical things and Near Future does not integrate with it at all.

SelectRoot is a must. Be sensible and don't root symmetrical bits. Bad things happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on May 04, 2014, 04:49:06 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 04, 2014, 01:40:53 pm
Mk2 Cockpit Internal View
Pretty much explains itself (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot599.png).
>Link (http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk2cockpitinternals/)<

There's a really awesome one for the Mk3 as well, but I don't have the link.

EDIT: http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk3-cockpit-internals/ (http://kerbalspaceport.com/mk3-cockpit-internals/) I haven't ever played without it, it's amazing.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 04, 2014, 05:32:42 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 04, 2014, 04:36:50 pm
Near Future Propulsion was originally a beefed up extension to Ion drives pre .23. Ion drives have been significantly changed with .23.5. Interstellar is still the go to pack for theoretical things and Near Future does not integrate with it at all.
KSPI is more of a "Far Future" propulsion pack. :P And it has rather more things going on, what with the upgrades and such. NFPP is much more straightforward than that, and it stays much truer to stock KSP.

KSPI, in my eyes, is on the same level of "not right now" as B9 Aerospace. It's pretty, it's neat, but it doesn't quite fit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 04, 2014, 05:38:40 pm
Ijust dont understand why they dont add those two internals allready...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 04, 2014, 06:04:20 pm
Both the Mk2 and the Mk3 cockpits are slated for a complete overhaul along with most of the original spaceplane parts, sometime further down the line. The internals exist as a mod already, but the parts themselves aren't going to be used later, so it makes no sense to spend effort on remaking those internals or hiring the modders who made them.

And no, they can't just appropriate the mods and include them in the game. Because reasons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 04, 2014, 07:08:57 pm
Quote from: Rilder on May 02, 2014, 01:47:42 am
Well finally go around to unlocking enough parts unlocked to actually put together a SSTO since they added the research system. Utilized a previously designed Biplane as a base and pretty much just went for it.

Spoiler: The LRP-2S 'Raven Trident' (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Bonus Touchdown screenshot (click to show/hide)

Bit more adjustments here and there needed but she flies rather nice.

Spoiler: also, the plane it was based off, yeah very similar (click to show/hide)
Y'know, I really like the look of that plane. Care to post the .craft for me?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on May 04, 2014, 09:35:24 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on May 04, 2014, 07:08:57 pm
Quote from: Rilder on May 02, 2014, 01:47:42 am
Well finally go around to unlocking enough parts unlocked to actually put together a SSTO since they added the research system. Utilized a previously designed Biplane as a base and pretty much just went for it.

Spoiler: The LRP-2S 'Raven Trident' (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Bonus Touchdown screenshot (click to show/hide)

Bit more adjustments here and there needed but she flies rather nice.

Spoiler: also, the plane it was based off, yeah very similar (click to show/hide)
Y'know, I really like the look of that plane. Care to post the .craft for me?

https://www.mediafire.com/?qn6da72muut629w here you go, I think that's the right craft file.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 05, 2014, 09:07:27 am
Following the success of the pioneer K.S.S. "Suicidal Insanity", the KSC, with the help of Director Hellrider's KSO Station contruction kit, launched the flagship K.S.S. "Refuge in Audacity". It has served as a short-term refueling station for the KSO shuttle, until I realized that with 3.75m fuel tanks, I was really thinking too small.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 05, 2014, 12:57:07 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 04, 2014, 06:04:20 pm
Both the Mk2 and the Mk3 cockpits are slated for a complete overhaul along with most of the original spaceplane parts, sometime further down the line. The internals exist as a mod already, but the parts themselves aren't going to be used later, so it makes no sense to spend effort on remaking those internals or hiring the modders who made them.

And no, they can't just appropriate the mods and include them in the game. Because reasons.
I'm pretty sure they can legally do so.

There might be backlash however.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 06, 2014, 01:01:22 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzKYlJoFWHs
Stock replica arrinera supercar.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It looks better in the video.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 06, 2014, 12:03:32 pm
Apparently Curse will be handling the KSP mod store, which seems odd to me, but hey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2014, 12:05:58 pm
I really dislike Curse... they've gotten much better over the years though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 06, 2014, 10:05:43 pm
That reminds me, their client has been crashing my sisters computer for the last few months, I couldn't fix it, I better have another look at it.
She doesn't really need it for WoW addons though.
Edit:
 Also, Thx to danny and a few others I'm now a Kevin Macleod fan, I'm even using it as background for Aurora.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPhe6s_-1U&list=RDkWRR20F10Uo&index=0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPhe6s_-1U&list=RDkWRR20F10Uo&index=0)
Note that track 8 "Arcadia" Is KSP's Deep space music :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on May 07, 2014, 06:35:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Screwing around with a new plane design, still very work in progress, especially in regards to high altitude balance but she flies well for the most part. I hate the tail section though and really want to think of something more aesthetically pleasing, which is a bit of a challenge unless I broke down and installed procedural wings. (I have a set of things I want to do pure stock before I move onto trying mods) Also, using RAPIER due to not unlocking turbojets yet. (Need to make another trip outside the Kerbin SOI)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 08:16:15 am
I got Interstellar and I'm using it with B9.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 08:22:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 08:16:15 am
I got Interstellar and I'm using it with B9.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ask questions. I've used the mod quite a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 09:37:48 am
Interstellar has a wiki. It's okay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eclectic Wizard on May 07, 2014, 02:55:29 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 06, 2014, 12:03:32 pm
Apparently Curse will be handling the KSP mod store, which seems odd to me, but hey.

Mod.. store? Does that mean that mods will cost money?

Fucking hell..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 07, 2014, 02:57:36 pm
No.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on May 07, 2014, 03:14:35 pm
It's just organized like a storefront.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:26:11 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 08:22:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 08:16:15 am
I got Interstellar and I'm using it with B9.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ask questions. I've used the mod quite a bit.
How do I get engines, thermal turbojets in particular, to produce actual thrust? I have them hooked up to fusion reactors, and my vehicle has LFO, they act like they're turned on but produce no thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 07, 2014, 03:26:55 pm
multiplayer mod lives again, http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/24y7fh/darkmultiplayer_0100_ksp_0235_alpha_now_available/

playing career just naow :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 03:30:26 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:26:11 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 08:22:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 08:16:15 am
I got Interstellar and I'm using it with B9.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ask questions. I've used the mod quite a bit.
How do I get engines, thermal turbojets in particular, to produce actual thrust? I have them hooked up to fusion reactors, and my vehicle has LFO, they act like they're turned on but produce no thrust.
Right click them and it should show if they are actually producing any thrust. I should warn you though that thermal engines are not really a launch engine unless hooked up to antimatter reactors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 03:31:04 pm
DarkMP is a parallel sort of branch to KMP. They'll be intermixing.

Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:26:11 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 08:22:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 08:16:15 am
I got Interstellar and I'm using it with B9.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ask questions. I've used the mod quite a bit.
How do I get engines, thermal turbojets in particular, to produce actual thrust? I have them hooked up to fusion reactors, and my vehicle has LFO, they act like they're turned on but produce no thrust.

Hooked up to reactors or directly placed node to node on the reactor? Most things in Interstellar have to attach node to node in a specific order. Just put parts together in dozens of combinations and you'll understand much of the mod. Rule of thumb: heat generation has to be connected node to node to electric generators and engines. The heat is directly transferred from part to part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
...I already right clicked them, it always says 0kN even though they seem to respond to throttle. Tried switching modes, nothing.
Also, my game just crashed for the fourth time in the past half hour and I'm getting extremely annoyed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 07, 2014, 03:34:22 pm
The engines may not be using the correct propellent, crashes may be due to the alphaness of the game, the mods clashing, you breaking it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
Also, my game just crashed for the fourth time in the past half hour and I'm getting extremely annoyed.

You're likely out of RAM.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 07, 2014, 03:58:02 pm
Did you turn the reactor on first? Fusion reactors don't start activated, and they require an initial source of megajoules for startup.


Just started a new career game and sent my first lander to the Mun (it was supposed to go to Minmus but I messed up a bit with the navigation). Let me tell you, you don't want your lander to be parked on a 60 degree incline while the pilot flies around doing science. A single slip and the kerbal goes sliding all the way to the bottom of the hill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 04:07:51 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
Also, my game just crashed for the fourth time in the past half hour and I'm getting extremely annoyed.

You're likely out of RAM.

I tried again. While no windows are open, RAM usage is at 800MB. While running my modded game, hovers around 4.5GB. My computer has 6GB of RAM. Is that enough to run out?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 04:10:47 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 04:07:51 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
Also, my game just crashed for the fourth time in the past half hour and I'm getting extremely annoyed.

You're likely out of RAM.

I tried again. While no windows are open, RAM usage is at 800MB. While running my modded game, hovers around 4.5GB. My computer has 6GB of RAM. Is that enough to run out?

Unless you're running Linux 64bit, you'll max out RAM usage for KSP (3.75GB). It'll lock up and that's the end of it. Use the active memory reduction mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 07, 2014, 04:21:09 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 04:07:51 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
Also, my game just crashed for the fourth time in the past half hour and I'm getting extremely annoyed.

You're likely out of RAM.

I tried again. While no windows are open, RAM usage is at 800MB. While running my modded game, hovers around 4.5GB. My computer has 6GB of RAM. Is that enough to run out?
KSP is a 32bit program. It can't address 6GB of ram.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 07, 2014, 05:18:07 pm
edit: never mind unity 5 stuff

there is the active texture reduction mod

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-23-5-Release-3-1-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 07, 2014, 08:10:00 pm
Yeah Interstellar can get confusing sometimes. Actually ANY mod can get hilariously confusing fast, but Interstellar adds a lot.

I was trying to get that thermal stuff to work with microwave beamed power, like Scott Manley, but that didn't happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 07, 2014, 09:21:55 pm
I've decided to overhaul the mods I'm using. One part of that involves deleting Interstellar and replacing it with NEAR.

...I don't suppose anyone could remind me which stuff is Interstellar's? It's not labeled "Interstellar" or anything...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 09:28:27 pm
"warp"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 07, 2014, 09:36:40 pm
I have no folders labeled "warp".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 07, 2014, 09:42:51 pm
"warpplugin" I was going by memory before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 07, 2014, 10:06:06 pm
That sounds about right...I wonder if I uninstalled it earlier and forgot? Doesn't sound right...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 01:45:15 am
So I designed an F-104 and damn KSP hates engines that are in front of wings, the damn thing has no thrust at all.
I had to compromise and place them slightly above the wings, but it flies well, top speed 300 m/s (at altitude) , altitude 6500 meters.
I slapped some extra wing segments onto the wing roots tripling the wing size for a simple U2 conversion, it now has a max altitude of above 20 km with top speed around 700 m/s while up there.
They don't recover too well from the flat spin that results from flying at that altitude though.
Edit: I'm aklso considering replacing interstellar with near future, It would be simplier and more stable (warp had some problems when I installed extraplanetary launchpads)
Edit: I meant to ask, does FAR fix that problem? I made the 104 in my unmodded ARM version and am wondering if installing FAR would allow engines to actually provide thrust while blocked by wings or fuselage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 08, 2014, 02:19:57 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 01:45:15 am
Edit: I meant to ask, does FAR fix that problem? I made the 104 in my unmodded ARM version and am wondering if installing FAR would allow engines to actually provide thrust while blocked by wings or fuselage.
...

You know, I have to ask. Do real engines provide thrust when blocked by wings or the fuselage? Sure, IRL you can theoretically have control surfaces in the engine exhaust to get more control, but you need them a ways away from the engine itself, otherwise they'll eventually be eroded away.

What I mean to say is, it's not a problem. It's a feature. FAR enhances flight realism, so no, it does nothing to alter that behavior.

...why do you need engines blocked by wings for an F-104 anyway?
Spoiler: I see just one big engine, and it's anything but blocked (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 02:24:44 am
Well, In KSP I can't have the thrust from the twin engines in front of the wings exit through the rear of the fuselage since they're just full of fuel.
Perhaps I should install far and use some of those thrust vectoring dealies.. or I could put the engines in the rear and install air intakes up front.  I'll put up some photos for comparison.
Edit: Also I don't really mean the air is completely blocked by the wing, I just mean if the engine is in front of the wing it doesn't do anything.
I could possibly find some pictures of real aircraft that have engines that work in the place where I was attempting to put them in KSP.
Edit: It seems only prop driver craft put engines there, go figure
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 08, 2014, 02:39:26 am
wouldn't they melt the tail wings? also, they would probably interfere with thrust reversing mechanisms.

I kind of remember to have seen something like that, but can't tell if it was real life or not  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 08, 2014, 06:58:36 am
This is KSP.
We must go one step further.


We must put the engine in front of EVERYTHING.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 07:29:46 am
Where's the external command chair?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 09:32:30 am
Inside the cockpit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 08, 2014, 09:59:24 am
Not external.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 08, 2014, 10:08:10 am
Internal external command chair?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 10:09:13 am
I'm having a problem. Some mod or another came with a convenient toolbar that lets me open and close various popup windows related to mods and plugins.
(http://i.imgur.com/Gq4jH8L.png)
In the VAB, it's right over the "cockpit" and "propulsion" tabs. How do I move it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 08, 2014, 10:11:46 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 10:09:13 am
I'm having a problem. Some mod or another came with a convenient toolbar that lets me open and close various popup windows related to mods and plugins.
(http://i.imgur.com/Gq4jH8L.png)
In the VAB, it's right over the "cockpit" and "propulsion" tabs. How do I move it?
If its the one I am thinking of, click the down arrow and there should be an unlock toolbar position option in there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 10:13:31 am
Found that. Thanks.

EDIT: I tried to fly one of Farram's "stock" craft, the Dark Hammer II or something. I drifted a bit to the left, and...well...

(http://i.imgur.com/ahM7f3M.png)

I think I should find  way to correct that sideslip. Probably by not having the plane explode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 11:20:28 am
Shoved a pair of  Rapiers onto the back of the U2 and now it reaches orbit easily.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4 tanks hold plenty of oxidiser for the job.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Uh, getting back however is rather a problem.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Reentry is somewhat faster than it can handle, by the time the atmosphere gets thick enough to provide life it also happens to be thick enough to tear the wings off due to the speed that remains.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 01:18:32 pm
Try coming in shallower? You know, bleed off speed by spending more time in the upper atmosphere slowing down before hitting the lower atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 08, 2014, 01:29:44 pm
I finally figured out how to do more stuff on Interstellar, this time with the help of Active Texture Reduction, which seems to make the game stop crashing, with the downside of making the game take forever to start.

These parts are so amazing. It is now possible to have a small fighter SSTO, launching and going to other planets completely unassisted. It's also very aesthetically pleasing, even when used with B9.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 08, 2014, 07:25:05 pm
Interstellar thermal turbojets require air intakes in addition to the thermal power source. Interstellar also adds a need to hook air intakes up to a precooler or the engines overheat at high speeds. My setup for a thermal turbojet looks kind of like this.

(http://i.imgur.com/IGCk7Jls.png) (http://imgur.com/IGCk7Jl.png)(http://i.imgur.com/TluO5LIs.png) (http://imgur.com/TluO5LI.png)

That one was before I added FAR and Deadly Reentry though.


And since putting engines in front of things is my specialty, here's a recent design I'm proud of.
(http://i.imgur.com/I3qQeO7s.png) (http://imgur.com/I3qQeO7.png)(http://i.imgur.com/ZWsqg5zs.png) (http://imgur.com/ZWsqg5z.png)
That one is using FAR and Deadly Reentry.

EDIT: *laughs maniacally*
(http://i.imgur.com/t4tcbTCs.png) (http://imgur.com/t4tcbTC.png)(http://i.imgur.com/vW3FAgSs.png) (http://imgur.com/vW3FAgS.png)(http://i.imgur.com/I8xDZLQs.png) (http://imgur.com/I8xDZLQ.png)(http://i.imgur.com/q1t7GIDs.png) (http://imgur.com/q1t7GID.png)(http://i.imgur.com/Bxlnv82s.png) (http://imgur.com/Bxlnv82.png)(http://i.imgur.com/01x6E6us.png) (http://imgur.com/01x6E6u.png)
FAR, Deadly Reentry, and Procedural Farings
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 08, 2014, 10:07:55 pm
Yeah, that first test I ran out of fuel due to a fuel line problem, so I never managed to circulise, therefore my reentry was steep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 09, 2014, 12:37:33 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 08, 2014, 10:11:46 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2014, 10:09:13 am
I'm having a problem. Some mod or another came with a convenient toolbar that lets me open and close various popup windows related to mods and plugins.
(http://i.imgur.com/Gq4jH8L.png)
In the VAB, it's right over the "cockpit" and "propulsion" tabs. How do I move it?
If its the one I am thinking of, click the down arrow and there should be an unlock toolbar position option in there.
Also a bit of nuance which initially got me:
You need to click on the down arrow. You can then unlock it, and move it around. To lock it, you need to click exactly on the sprite for the down arrow, as the not-down-arrow-pixels surrounding it will just re-position it again, as for some odd reason they decided that one shouldn't be a standard square clicking area.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 09, 2014, 09:27:00 am
Which is quite a pain.

EDIT:
(http://i.imgur.com/Iy1abCR.png)
Lessons learned:
1. That Editor Tools thing doesn't just switch symmetry mode; it actually moves you from the VAB to the SPH.
2. Those little engines? They apparently stand up on their ends really well.
3. My rocket needs LSEs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 09, 2014, 10:33:37 am
You only need to move the bar a few times and then leave it alone forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 09, 2014, 10:50:18 am
New mod compatibility issue: The MechJeb sidebar is broken. Like, it's blank, so I can't select any of the options. This is bad, because I find MechJeb useful for such things as precise turns, not worrying about if I'm pointed in exactly the right direction for long or precise maneuvers, and maneuver node editing. And Δv calculations, of course.
Any idea why this would happen?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 09, 2014, 10:58:02 am
Delete it and all it's config files. Reinstall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 09, 2014, 01:20:20 pm
I've been having all kinds of glitches in my career game. When I resume flight on a spacecraft, all joints seem to lose connectivity and the craft gets hit by all kinds of phantom forces. Kerbals leaving the craft get launched into oblivion, and the "bailed out" screen displays. I already lost one Mun mission when the lander was deleted because I tried returning to the space centre while it was in that state.

Strangely I never had these problems in my sandbox games. The only change I made to my mods was updating Ferram. I wonder if the aerodynamic stress change is causing it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 09, 2014, 02:33:05 pm
Yes, Ferram changes things. It's not aerodynamic, it's something else. I had it explained in a KSP stream by one of the testers, but I forget exactly what it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 09, 2014, 02:56:27 pm
Well now thanks to the glitch I know what it's like to dock with an accelerating target, in the dark, with all of my instruments malfunctioning. ‼FUN‼
I'm going to try reverting Ferram. The game is almost unplayable in this state.

EDIT: Reverting didn't help. I think the save may be unsalvageable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erkki on May 09, 2014, 06:12:40 pm
The mobile ballistic missile launch platform is a success!!!


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The modified version with extra wheels, foglight and a minibar launches a spy satellite complete with antennae and photovoltaic panels to a 200 x 200 orbit with fuel for re-entering.

Performance and driving comfortability in hilly terrain needs to be performed though... Doubling its width should work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 09, 2014, 09:24:16 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 09, 2014, 10:58:02 am
Delete it and all it's config files. Reinstall.
So, it's probably not a compatibility issue?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2014, 09:57:23 pm
Quote from: Erkki on May 09, 2014, 06:12:40 pm
The mobile ballistic missile launch platform is a success!!!


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The modified version with extra wheels, foglight and a minibar launches a spy satellite complete with antennae and photovoltaic panels to a 200 x 200 orbit with fuel for re-entering.

Performance and driving comfortability in hilly terrain needs to be performed though... Doubling its width should work.

Oh you think you so clever do you?

MEET THE REVENANT

Spoiler: SOMANYMISSLES (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 09, 2014, 10:09:54 pm
Pfft, those missiles aren't even ICBM!
But theres so many, .... so very many.
So i'll let it slide.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2014, 10:38:43 pm
Revised the design.
It now has Mechjeb for (hopefully) cluster targeting

And even MOAR MISSLES

Spoiler: I could blow up the world (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on May 09, 2014, 10:43:40 pm
Wouldn't firing those missiles straight up just make them come strait down on top of you? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2014, 10:59:56 pm
Quote from: i2amroy on May 09, 2014, 10:43:40 pm
Wouldn't firing those missiles straight up just make them come strait down on top of you? :P
No actually. Although firing them DOES destroy the vehicle pretty good. I assume it just can't take the stress of all their exhaust blasts at once

Spoiler: Maybe I shoulda called it the "Bumblebee" (click to show/hide)

Still working on getting Mechjeb to have them target something. SMART A.S.S. Target + seems to be the best candidate so far
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 09, 2014, 11:07:24 pm
Ran out of Ram while missile equipping something, brb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2014, 11:22:38 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 09, 2014, 11:07:24 pm
Ran out of Ram while missile equipping something, brb.

I've started a thing haven't I? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 09, 2014, 11:55:41 pm
I did that alot.

Hell, I made ships that did that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 10, 2014, 12:15:53 am
270 Missiles seems to be the limit :( Edit: Maybe not......
Edit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meet the SRM-54, Comprised of 9 SRM-6 Racks, The modular design makes retrofitting existing craft easy, it also saves on parts. The rack is welded together into one part, then 54 seperators are added, finally the missiles which are also welded into a single part, total, a mere 109 parts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Launch is rather destructive to test stand.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nice grouping for first kilometer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now separating, this is bad for accuracy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Macross Spam anyone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 10, 2014, 12:50:08 am
Nice. But all MY missiles have Mechjeb, so they can actually track a target and all fly toward it, despite firing in different directions. In theory anyway, because of Mechjeb limitations (it doesn't save smartass settings through stage separation) you have to switch to each and every missile and hit the right buttons. Still, its awesome when it happens and they all swarm toward a target.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 10, 2014, 12:52:21 am
I wasn't sure how to do that, Mind explaining in greater detail? :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 10, 2014, 12:58:29 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 10, 2014, 12:52:21 am
I wasn't sure how to do that, Mind explaining in greater detail? :p
First get Mechjeb.

After that throw a mechjeb unit on every missile.

Next you get on the launch pad and select a target (such as a pod or debris)

Open the "Smart A.S.S." up and look for Target, and then look for target +

Launch missiles, then "[" or "]" to them and start selecting the smart ass setting we just found and VIOLA, your missiles now seek out the target (albeit poorly)

Funny thing bout mechjeb is that it saves that setting when you switch missiles but not when you stage, which is unfortunate because then we could just have all the missiles track the target from launch
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 10, 2014, 01:13:22 am
Great, Now I just need to get KSP to stop crashing at 2.274 MB ram....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 10, 2014, 02:29:17 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 10, 2014, 12:50:08 am
Nice. But all MY missiles have Mechjeb, so they can actually track a target and all fly toward it, despite firing in different directions.
Now do that with Kerbal AI.


For bonus points, make a set of ships that launch separately, all go into space about the same time and fire at a target on the ground, hitting it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 05:13:15 am
/me looks around

requesting: mobile launch device with 3+ >4 TWR missiles capable of reaching at least 120000m in a straight line up, for intercepting of craft in multiplayer

bonus points if it can be carried to other planetary bodies

reward: none
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 10, 2014, 09:17:53 am
Does it have to be stock/what mods can be used?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 09:20:47 am
any mod configuration, excluding interplanetary and interplanetary-likes

put mechjeb on the missiles though
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2014, 10:36:24 am
Someone would have to update this, buuuuuut: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/47065-0-21-ICBM-Launch-Silo

I'm working on a multi-platform launchpad using Infernal Robotics and Extraplanetary Launchpads. Everything folds in and out. Just feed it rocket parts and make missiles to your heart's content.
Experiment A
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I plan on moving something like this to Minmus. The idea was to use the launchpad's own legs to keep it stable on a surface. Anything other than legs or wheels on the surface of a body lead to bad things happening.

Alternatively I'll use a rover and KAS winch to drop a launchpad somewhere and then connect it up to the Ore/Kethane mining base. A skycrane will work best for the above experiment while a normal rocket will work for a rover/KAS drop. The flat engines from B9 could also be useful on the bottom of the launchpad. Just use pipes and droptanks for orbital landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2014, 10:46:52 am
Step one: F5 before doing anything in KAS
Step two: right click attachable things
Step three: attach things and watch your ship blow up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 10, 2014, 11:15:23 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 05:13:15 am
/me looks around
requesting: mobile launch device with 3+ >4 TWR missiles capable of reaching at least 120000m in a straight line up, for intercepting of craft in multiplayer

which stage needs to have 4 TWR? first, last?
and if TWR 4 is on first stage, does it have to go full throttle during ascent?

edit: well, here is a missile proposal, stock. I'll get to design a launcher soon.

as you can see it has 5+ TWR on both stages, mechjeb and SAS on the upper stage providing great torque for manoeuvres.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

it reaches space while completely throttled up. Here is a screenshot of it at an apoapsis of 148'000 m ( flew in a straight line up) and with fuel to spare.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

by adding another fuel tank to the lower stage I can significantly extend range without falling  below TWR 4.
probably I can modify upper stage to be bigger as well, but a small nimble one is probably more useful.


and here is the launcher too.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
it is mobile. speed of 12 m/s.
However, launching the first rocket tends to break half the wheels. And don't try to brake , because that breaks ALL the wheels.
I can see if it is possible to support the thing better when it fires, maybe using landing legs. There are mods which should make that easy, if needed.
Right now, it is stock + mechjeb.
This launcher carries an upgrade of the earlier missile. Less TWR, but firing straight up at full throttle it can reach an apoapsis of 15M meters. with better throttle handling, it should be able to hit anything in the kerbin system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 03:34:41 pm
/me stares.

/me stands up and begins to clap.

bloody perfect

idea was to have no stages at twr below 2.5, and the last at above 4 (it's got to be really damn fast because it'll be intercepting things, yo)

since you completely nailed it, do you feel like designing a launch vehicle to move this launch vehicle to other systems (planned locations outside kerbin are: minmus, gilly, pol/bop depending on which one will have smoother terrain, possibly dres and moho for maximum coverage) or i can just grab what you created now and run absolutely mad with it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 10, 2014, 05:15:40 pm
Recently, I have deduced the reason behind the uniformity of the Kerbal race. It is due to the actions of a sinister racial-purity paramilitary organization:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2014, 09:08:40 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on May 10, 2014, 05:15:40 pm
Recently, I have deduced the reason behind the uniformity of the Kerbal race. It is due to the actions of a sinister racial-purity paramilitary organization:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's racist. :C
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 10, 2014, 09:14:00 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 05:13:15 am
/me looks around

requesting: mobile launch device with 3+ >4 TWR missiles capable of reaching at least 120000m in a straight line up, for intercepting of craft in multiplayer

bonus points if it can be carried to other planetary bodies

reward: none
That's nothing. Someone use the skillful weapons mod and the robotics mod to create a Metal Gear, complete with all the weapons of a real one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2014, 09:40:24 pm
 :o  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79586-0-23-5-Voice-Commander-1-0-0-Real-captains-use-their-voice
Why hasn't this been done earlier?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 10, 2014, 10:10:29 pm
So i'm considering doing a KSP LP, any suggestions on how would be a fun community dynamic?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 10, 2014, 11:04:46 pm
Suggested missions, succession games.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 11, 2014, 03:02:31 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 09, 2014, 10:09:54 pm
Pfft, those missiles aren't even ICBM!
They probably could reach other continents, actually.

Anyways. MechJeb seems to be working better now, yay. I'm working on a massive cannon, just because. It's a massive, 3.75-meter KW rocketry orange tank, connected to a Griffon XX and some legs. The thing is tilted at a 30 degree angle and includes two large kethane storage/conversion units, plus a crapton of life support stuff. I also tried to incorporate a neat sliding lift with Infernal Robotics, but that failed. Is IR still borked, or do I just not understand how to use it?
It's still in the "make sure everything's gonna work" stage, sadly. I intend to teleport a model to the Mun once I complete that stage, to see what all I can do with it...

Quote from: Djohaal on May 10, 2014, 10:10:29 pm
So i'm considering doing a KSP LP, any suggestions on how would be a fun community dynamic?
Update regularly. Don't spread a mission out over several days. Do stuff you enjoy doing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 11, 2014, 03:08:58 pm
The definition of an ICBM is one that can reach orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 03:27:35 pm
I assumed that since it's an acronym for Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile, the definition of an ICBM would be "it can hit and murder things on continents other than the one from which it was fired." Escaping the atmosphere is always a nice touch, but not entirely necessary to complete that objective. It could cruise along at just above ground level, instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 11, 2014, 03:28:22 pm
Then it wouldn't be Ballistic. :P
/missingthepoint
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 11, 2014, 04:09:13 pm
Quote from: Twi on May 11, 2014, 03:28:22 pm
Then it wouldn't be Ballistic. :P
/missingthepoint
This is also why they don't reach orbital velocity. Details from your external-brain. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_missile#Flight)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 11, 2014, 06:37:28 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 05:13:15 am
/me looks around
requesting: mobile launch device with 3+ >4 TWR missiles capable of reaching at least 120000m in a straight line up, for intercepting of craft in multiplayer
Interceptor missile. TWR for atmosphere is overstated by mechjeb, it's actually 5.3 at sea level, 10.8 at 20km, and 7.2 at 30KM. Above 30KM it flames out on a straight vertical launch. I didn't design it with any ground mobility though.

(http://i.imgur.com/xpbaJDBs.png) (http://imgur.com/xpbaJDB.png)(http://i.imgur.com/fr57Xfws.png) (http://imgur.com/fr57Xfw.png)(http://i.imgur.com/QdwZnENs.png) (http://imgur.com/QdwZnEN.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
Right, ballistics. Damnit, ballistics!

Leonon: Looks like that design could intercept Eve. If you're really good at interplanetary flights. The warhead looks a little fragile, though. Would it be able to deal any significant damage to an armored target, or would it just get crushed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 11, 2014, 07:09:15 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 11, 2014, 03:08:58 pm
The definition of an ICBM is one that can reach orbit.
The missiles look to be capable of doing that as much as real ones can...

Quote from: Leonon on May 11, 2014, 06:37:28 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on May 10, 2014, 05:13:15 am
/me looks around
requesting: mobile launch device with 3+ >4 TWR missiles capable of reaching at least 120000m in a straight line up, for intercepting of craft in multiplayer
Interceptor missile. TWR for atmosphere is overstated by mechjeb, it's actually 5.3 at sea level, 10.8 at 20km, and 7.2 at 30KM. Above 30KM it flames out on a straight vertical launch. I didn't design it with any ground mobility though.

(http://i.imgur.com/xpbaJDBs.png) (http://imgur.com/xpbaJDB.png)(http://i.imgur.com/fr57Xfws.png) (http://imgur.com/fr57Xfw.png)(http://i.imgur.com/QdwZnENs.png) (http://imgur.com/QdwZnEN.png)
That's pretty neat.

Quote from: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
The warhead looks a little fragile, though. Would it be able to deal any significant damage to an armored target, or would it just get crushed?
Armored target?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 11, 2014, 07:20:47 pm
Minmus has gotten its first base in my game. It's on one of the tiniest lake beds, so small you can't really see it from orbit. I was aiming for some hills on a hex with both ore and kethane.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The beginning of an all in one Kethane/Ore/Science base. The launchpad will get here eventually. It could rain missiles down on Kerbin or anywhere in the solar system if you're into that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:24:16 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 11, 2014, 07:09:15 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
The warhead looks a little fragile, though. Would it be able to deal any significant damage to an armored target, or would it just get crushed?
Armored target?

A target covered in or composed of high-durability parts. Like metal plates and girders.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 11, 2014, 07:57:12 pm
Finally I have an actual question about Interstellar.

In one of EnterElysium's videos, he made a plane which used thermal turbojets, which were supposedly getting their thermal energy from antimatter reactors. However, AFAIK it is impossible to start with antimatter already in your tanks.

... So how did he do it? Who was phone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 11, 2014, 08:27:47 pm
He either cheated it in through the gamedata, through the persistence file, or had it dropped from orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 11, 2014, 08:42:51 pm
He made it possible for the antimatter to start filled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 11, 2014, 09:13:37 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
Leonon: Looks like that design could intercept Eve. If you're really good at interplanetary flights. The warhead looks a little fragile, though. Would it be able to deal any significant damage to an armored target, or would it just get crushed?
It seems to clip through plating. I set up a test with up to 3 plates separated by cubic octagonal struts protecting a hitchhiker storage and it seems to sometimes be able to clip through 2 of the plates effectively. The engine is the part that does the damage though, so the whole thing is strange. I tried putting cubic octagonal struts on the front of the warhead and it just sort of bounces off the plates without doing any damage to either of them, even at >300m/s. All of the tests were in atmosphere from the launchpad up then down to the target.

So far all I've really been able to determine is that KSP armor is weird and hitting targets is hard.

EDIT: Sometimes it passes through the whole target and collides with the surface. This is too buggy and random for me to be able to design a good warhead. If there's a really good and/or easy way to hit a target in orbit I'd still like to hear it though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 11, 2014, 09:49:14 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:24:16 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 11, 2014, 07:09:15 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on May 11, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
The warhead looks a little fragile, though. Would it be able to deal any significant damage to an armored target, or would it just get crushed?
Armored target?

A target covered in or composed of high-durability parts. Like metal plates and girders.

Yeah, armored. Like Swastikage.

Spoiler: But No One Would Want To Hurt Swastikage (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 11, 2014, 10:28:27 pm
Uuhg... Actually that's rather cool ignoring the Swasti part.
Anyway I recall discussions on the KSP forums where extended communitrons were used for armour piercing. The antenna has to hit between the plates for it to work though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 11, 2014, 10:59:45 pm
Your swasticage is missing four dots.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/SWASTIKA.gif)

Without them it's just an old german political party symbol.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 11, 2014, 11:32:40 pm
Might be a good place to put a couple of Asas or something, because that thing's probably all kinds of unstable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 12, 2014, 07:49:44 am
Spoiler: What is this and why is it in the air? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on May 12, 2014, 07:53:07 am
A Bird of Prey? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 12, 2014, 08:42:53 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 10, 2014, 09:08:40 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on May 10, 2014, 05:15:40 pm
Recently, I have deduced the reason behind the uniformity of the Kerbal race. It is due to the actions of a sinister racial-purity paramilitary organization:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's racist. :C
How so? I merely deduced that one of the possible reasons behind the racial uniformity of the Kerbals is an organization deliberately purifying them. And what other racial-purity organization is symbolized by the letter K?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 12, 2014, 10:27:20 am
Sad day. I left my drills and smelter running on Minmus and now the craft refuses to load. Trying to shut things off in the save file, but it might actually be KAS causing the problem. I may have to rethink the base. I have the three separate craft in a backup save.

It's worse than I thought. All craft loading crashes KSP.

It turns out it's mechjeb 253. Best to stick to 250.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 13, 2014, 06:53:08 pm
I recently posted a huge mod thread. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/255cjn/essential_and_nonessentialbutstillcool_mods/)

I found one mod released just recently that looks especially good:

Asteroid Cities adds resources to asteroids. Finally, we can do proper space mining. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79675)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2014, 06:58:31 pm
Voice Commander (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79586-0-23-5-Voice-Commander-1-0-0-Real-captains-use-their-voice) and MechJeb 255 (http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/) work fine together. Scream at your ship and it will actually follow your orders. You can also use voice command without mechjeb, it just won't do as much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 13, 2014, 07:14:38 pm
Quote from: Japa on May 12, 2014, 07:49:44 am
Spoiler: What is this and why is it in the air? (click to show/hide)
Ah, so you have taken the first step towards the O-Ship.  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg3539059#msg3539059)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2014, 07:17:27 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on May 13, 2014, 07:14:02 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 13, 2014, 06:53:08 pm
I recently posted a huge mod thread. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/255cjn/essential_and_nonessentialbutstillcool_mods/)

I found one mod released just recently that looks especially good:

Asteroid Cities adds resources to asteroids. Finally, we can do proper space mining. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79675)
Oooh, Asteroid Cities might actually encourage me to download lifesupport mods. How do the oxygen and air work in this Asteroid mod?

The asteroid is full of water.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

------
I'm all set to catch this asteroid. It's coming in three days. I got my orbit in the correct inclination. Time to think about that burn.....shit. The asteroid is coming in the wrong direction. Why are you coming in clockwise?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 13, 2014, 07:24:41 pm
I presume it's water ice in the core of the asteroid. You can use Asteroid cities by itself, in which case Kerbals don't actually consume the life support resources but you can still mine ice and refine fuel. If Kethane is installed, you can use that instead if you're willing to tweak the mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2014, 07:46:10 pm
No, it's just water. Users want ice because it makes sense, but it's currently water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 13, 2014, 09:03:16 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 13, 2014, 07:46:10 pm
No, it's just water. Users want ice because it makes sense, but it's currently water.
Getting water out of it would make just as much sense, as the extraction technique would likely involve heating the material until you freed the water vapor from it. Or better yet, harvesting ice-containing regolith, which would then be processed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2014, 09:30:56 pm
The mod is skipping a step so it doesn't have to make yet another resource, most likely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2014, 11:12:27 pm
Because it's really not needed to be included. Especially since one of the simpler water-extraction methods leaves it no longer icy.

On the subject of life support mods...is it possible, with TAC Life Support, to make your own food in space with hydroponics or something, or are fully self-sustaining space stations/colonies/etc impossible?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 13, 2014, 11:33:46 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2014, 11:12:27 pm
Because it's really not needed to be included. Especially since one of the simpler water-extraction methods leaves it no longer icy.

On the subject of life support mods...is it possible, with TAC Life Support, to make your own food in space with hydroponics or something, or are fully self-sustaining space stations/colonies/etc impossible?
If it is possible, I haven't come across it yet. So probably not.

However, a quick googling seems to turn up this mod: http://kerbalspaceport.com/renewable-bio-fuel-modules/
Which introduces on-orbit fuel production and food production. Though it sounds like people are griping in the comments about how slow the fuel production is. Which is broken in the current version and seems to have a crap rating anyway...

It does, however, seem to be a planned feature: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=872071&viewfull=1#post872071
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2014, 12:25:14 am
The BioMass mod does it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 14, 2014, 01:30:38 am
I have a working greenhouse for Tac but I can't remember where I found it.
I haven't used it yet because the TAC recyclers and that greenhouse are way too effective, and I haven't produced a good testing setup yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 02:16:58 am
I have  finally mastered the  art of making my spaceplanes not s***y. Huzzah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 14, 2014, 03:35:21 am
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line


Coincidence? I think not!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 05:01:04 am
Today, after over two years in service, the K.S.S. "Suicidal Insanity" was officially decommissioned. It was the first space station launched by the K.S.P, and represented a huge increase in public opinion of the organization, which had theretofore been generally regarded as a bunch of nutters with access to high-grade combustables. According to a spokeskerbal for the K.S.P., new mods advances in technology had made the "Suicidal Insanity" obselete, and too costly to maintain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 14, 2014, 07:51:56 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 14, 2014, 12:25:14 am
The BioMass mod does it.
Would that be the one that alway said was "broken" and "crap"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2014, 09:10:09 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 14, 2014, 07:51:56 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 14, 2014, 12:25:14 am
The BioMass mod does it.
Would that be the one that alway said was "broken" and "crap"?

BioMass has two versions, a simple version and a science version. The science version is geared more for fuel production but also does the things TAC needs. Last I check the science version had some major problems still in the various parts. Like any mod it's being worked on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 09:39:22 am
A lot of the mods that have TAC compat barely mention it. I found a good one, the only thing that bugs me is that the author uses 'bio' as a separate word, as in 'bio mass', instead of 'bio-mass' or 'biomass'. You can find it here. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/greenhouse/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 14, 2014, 09:48:12 am
Quote from: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 09:39:22 am
A lot of the mods that have TAC compat barely mention it. I found a good one, the only thing that bugs me is that the author uses 'bio' as a separate word, as in 'bio mass', instead of 'bio-mass' or 'biomass'. You can find it here. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/greenhouse/)

This is probably the only time I've seen a mod author EXPLAIN HOW TO USE HIS CRAP IN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE MOD. Holy shit, this guy is awesome :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2014, 10:22:30 am
Quote from: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 09:39:22 am
A lot of the mods that have TAC compat barely mention it. I found a good one, the only thing that bugs me is that the author uses 'bio' as a separate word, as in 'bio mass', instead of 'bio-mass' or 'biomass'. You can find it here. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/greenhouse/)

There have been a couple copycat mods that use the greenhouse popping up quite recently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 14, 2014, 12:20:21 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 09:39:22 am
A lot of the mods that have TAC compat barely mention it. I found a good one, the only thing that bugs me is that the author uses 'bio' as a separate word, as in 'bio mass', instead of 'bio-mass' or 'biomass'. You can find it here. (http://kerbalspaceport.com/greenhouse/)
Any good mods that make food instead of fuel?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 14, 2014, 01:14:44 pm
this guy has some cfg changes that makes average mod good by letting them play well together

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1uxw4y/duna_base_alpha_interstellar_kw_procedural/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 14, 2014, 01:22:34 pm
It makes food, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 14, 2014, 04:16:39 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on May 14, 2014, 03:45:41 pm
Guys, I need help.
Near Future Propulsion is too confusing.
I apparently need huge amounts of fuel with the hydrogen engines to get any amount of respectable delta-v, and the capacitators are confusing and how do the radiators and nuclear generators work and halp

EDIT
It appears that it is also derping Flight Engineer up. Adding four regular nuclear engines with a small amount of fuel makes it suddenly believe it has 17,000 m/s of delta-v (from 1,700).
Okay, in order.

Hydrogen is seriously large at the moment. It's going to get an overhaul soon. For now you really need massive, massive tanks of it in order to really go anywhere. The upside is that it's really lightweight, so the size is the only problem - you can increase your delta-v as long as you have somewhere to put more tanks, with little impact on TWR.

Capacitors store electric charge. You can see some detailed stats on exactly how much they store, release, and use up for charging, in their detailed stats screen. Pretty much they have eight times the energy density of regular batteries, so they store eight times the amount of ElectricCharge for a given mass.
To operate capacitors, you need to either use the right-click menu on them, or set up action groups. Capacitors can do two things: store charge, and release charge. You will want an action group that tells all your capacitors to start recharging, and any number of action groups to discharge your capacitors as appropriate. They start out fully charged, and not charging. When fully charged, the capacitor stops charging. When set to discharge (this can be done at any time) the capacitor begins converting its StoredCharge into ElectricCharge at a fixed rate, which goes into your regular batteries. The rate is such that a fully charged capacitor always fully discharges in exactly 10 seconds, and any charge that doesn't fit into your battery stores is lost.

The best use for capacitors is powering an energy-hungry thruster on a lightweight solar-powered ship, allowing for quick acceleration bursts.

Nuclear generators need two things to function. Fuel, and radiators. Each reactor starts out fully fueled, and at maximum power output every reactor lasts a few years at least, so it's not normally a problem to refuel. Radiators need to be placed on the reactor itself, and need to be extended to maximize their efficiency. There are two types of radiators. Standard radiators look like solar panels - big and blocky. These can be placed on any reactor as needed. Conforming radiators are more elaborately shaped, usually curved. These are reactor-specific, and it's usually obvious what size of reactor a given conforming radiator fits to. The conforming radiators should be placed with symmetry, so that they exactly cover the entire surface of the reactor - this ensures that the heat dissipation capacity exactly matches the requirements of the reactor.

In order to use the reactor, it needs to be powered up. This is a two-stage process for normal operation. First, right-click the reactor and use the option to unfold all attached radiators. Second, activate the reactor from the same menu. The reactor will gradually spool up to its nominal power output. More complex manipulations, including usage with insufficient radiators (or closed radiators) can be handled with the advanced reactor control panel available in the same menu.

The Kerbal Engineer has a little trouble with some resources at the moment. I believe there is an experimental branch of it with different staging and fuel flow simulation that fixes these issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 15, 2014, 10:30:06 pm
I dropped the extra-complex cannon and went with a more basic model. I make up for this with a nice, complex projectile--a Lander Can with a conical fuel tank and some rockets, plus landing legs, a heat shield, and such--docked above the thing. It falls apart on the launchpad but stays together better on the runway; I still fiddle with it. In a strutting manner. After fiddling repeatedly with the docking ports, staging, and whatnot, I was finally ready to test it! It fell apart. Not sure why. I retest and note that the problem seems to be structural failure between the cannon and the probe body behind it. It didn't launch the monster very far, but it did speed backwards at great speed.

Two changes I made: I ditched the complex return-lander an replaced it with a lander-can with nothing more than two radial engines, a couple little fuel tanks, and radial monoprop tanks and some RCS thrusters. Whoo! It's just 14 parts, and the only non-stock ones are the four neater-looking RCS thrusters. I also added two clamps.
The pod fell right through the exhaust! I adjust the design of the cannon, but as I do so I'm crippled by issues with the Subassembly thing. I click on it, and it spawns one untouchable docking port plus thirteen other unconnected parts arranged in roughly the same pattern as the pod I created. This can't be used. Same thing happens when I close the VAB and re-open it to add in the pod...or try to add that bit anywhere else. Frickkin' bugs. I delete the subassembly and begin work on another project.

EDIT: The other project, a little propeller plane made with Firespitter parts, took off. The parts are interesting; a little plane with one propeller and two wings passedo Mach 0.5 well before the end of the runway but couldn't lift off until afterwards. Or, for that matter, afterwards. Takeoff will most likely continue to be an issue if I use Firespitter wings...
P.S. Are propellers supposed to require air intakes? And also spin when throttle is 0?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 15, 2014, 11:24:07 pm
Replacing the Firespitter wings with stock delta wings did the trick! I took off almost by accident, accidentally turning right to account for rightward drifting, bouncing off one of the runway's lights, and...well...spinning myself out of control. I blame Farram. If I could fly an airplane, I would have taken off successfully; I just know it!

One-third thrust is fairly controllable, but it has the slight disadvantage of not letting me actually gain altitude. Two-thirds thrust has issues, like how my attempts to stay on the runway knocked off one wing, meaning that when I shot off the end of the runway (having cut thrust) I promptly lost the other wing, struck the ground, and bounced up, EVAing just in time to escape the cockpit...which bobbed about, intact, as Jeb splashed down hard some distance out to see.
The second attempt lead to an even worse crash, flipping over sideways and exploding. The only surviving bit was one set of landing gear, rolling end-over-end away from the runway for an astonishing amount of time and distance.
"One of"...wait a sec...I think I get how those biplane landing gears are supposed to work now!

Probably not with a big jet attached to the back. Maybe it was Farram, but I hit the staging button and the next thing I know...
(http://i.imgur.com/KK3gBSi.png)
As I struggle to get the screen shotted, I notice a conspicuous lack of explosions. Sure enough, Jeb managed to fly this thing!
(http://i.imgur.com/67nVXUN.png)
The "Large AoO/Slideslip," which I assume is FAR for "how are you flying half an airplane?!?", leads to me deciding to revert to launch and see if 1/3 throttle goes over better.
(http://i.imgur.com/Bydlvw6.png)
I'm thinking that's a "no".

I redesign the craft and make sure that the centers of lift and gravity are identical. I promptly lift into the air, partly  because of my delta/structural wing. I overturn down, bounce up, stall briefly, then return to normal flight very quickly...possibly because of that reaction wheel. It flies well; I head to the abandoned runway on that island, but overshoot it (with the prop off--I don't go there much, okay? And I was still going over 120 m/s!). I try to turn around, but wind up stalling and as I turn to try and get back under control...well...the landing gear and tail fins not only survived the splashdown, but bounced enthusiastically for some time.

How is Farram supposed to work, and did I do well for a first time?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 16, 2014, 07:57:30 pm
I found this video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7EwmxBAW8) Sure, it's mostly stuff you already know, but it provides some tidbits the typical KSP player wouldn't know, plus some interesting facts about RL spacecraft and such.

I wonder if there's any chance that precession from irregular sphericalness of the planets will ever be implemented. Or relativity, but that seems less likely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 17, 2014, 03:30:30 am
Can spacecraft in KSP even go fast enough for relativity to matter?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 17, 2014, 06:27:52 am
Somebody once got a ship fast enough, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 17, 2014, 07:43:13 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 17, 2014, 03:30:30 am
Can spacecraft in KSP even go fast enough for relativity to matter?

Scott Manley has a video about getting to a significant fraction of light speed. He used infinite fuel, but still.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 17, 2014, 08:09:49 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 17, 2014, 03:30:30 am
Can spacecraft in KSP even go fast enough for relativity to matter?
One of the reasons I find it unlikely to be added.
I'm sure that if you added enough solar panels, xenon tanks, and ion engines together...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 17, 2014, 09:36:42 am
I designed an orbital fighter.

(http://i.imgur.com/47LPBGJ.png)

Turns out that if you want it to land, you should probably design it for that. It survived re-entry, to my surprise. FAR warns me of "Large AoA/Sideslip," which I assume is FAR for "your craft's wings are bloody girders, why are you trying to fly it?"
Bill and Jeb bail out at a bit above two and one kilometers, respectively. Thanks to Vanguard Parachutes, they land okay. There was no salvage possible on the fighter, but at least the pilots are safe.

Incidentally, neither MechJeb's anything nor the right-click eject option from Vanguard's eject module thingy are existing. Any idea why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 17, 2014, 12:03:13 pm
That thing looks great, as if it's assembled from scrapyard parts.

Alright, can anyone help me with my FAR spaceplane? ;-;
It can takeoff alright, but the moment it does it stalls uncontrollably.

E: alright, i fixed it. It works if I don't take off violently.
Turning makes the wings fall off though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 17, 2014, 03:58:01 pm
Spoiler: if I can't get it in game... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on May 17, 2014, 06:54:03 pm
Spoiler: I regret nothing. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 17, 2014, 07:35:05 pm
What's that? Just an asteroid, or what?

I discovered that the KSO shuttle flies surprisingly well. Turning is tough, and it doesn't fly for long, but still.

I tried to design a half-biplane half-modern-fighter spaceplane, but ran into problems with it flipping over. I switched out the landing gear (biplane in front, stock in back) for lower ones (fighter gear in front, wooden sticks in back). This didn't work too well and lead to repeated destruction of my back wing flaps, so I replaced the sticks with a fighter tail gear. That took a bit to get straightened out, but once I did I managed to destroy my entire craft again. I gave up on trying to fiddle with it like that and instead dealt with the high center-of-mass head-on, by adding three pairs of compressed-air bottles to bring it down (and extend the life of the jet). This worked until I tried to correct the direction I was going down the runway, at which point I kasploded. Not turning on the ground meant I managed to take off! Finally! Trying to adjust attitude lead to me tilting over backwards, then trying to turn downwards, then my wings fell off. I managed to get the wingless plane almost under control right before crashing precisely at the boundary between beach and ocean. Mad skillz. Seems I need to fix center of mass, though, so I tried to add some hardpoints to add more stuff underneath. I can't ever get those to work, though...
Maybe I'll figure it out later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on May 17, 2014, 07:40:58 pm
Had a pretty awesome space station I build, I have the orbital shipyard mod, so I figure that I should build a ship yard. So eight hours later, I have a station that has 50 tons of building parts, 100 gallons of fuels and a enough electricity to power the sun, So i decided to build a small probe to test it out and I notice it wasn't build so I waited four hours, then four day, then FOUR weeks in-game.(The nonstop swearing started here.) I notice I didn't include the FREAKING CONSTRUCTION MODULE! AKA THE THING THAT BUILDS THE DAMN SHIPS!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 17, 2014, 07:47:07 pm
Design  of the KD-1 Kentipede is underway. It is a long mobile base destined for Duna, which will be fully self sustaining. It has a greenhouse, water and air recyclers, living space for ten Kerbals, a fully-equipped scientific laboratory, two of the big Kethane drills, a large Kethane tank, a heavy-duty Kethane processor,  a giant solar tower (deployable with Infernal Robotics), a deployable landing pad, and an independent kethane probe to land on said pad. I named it the Kentipede because I haven't unlocked the huge rover wheels yet, so I'm using a bunch of the smaller ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 17, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Quote from: stabbymcstabstab on May 17, 2014, 07:40:58 pm
Had a pretty awesome space station I build, I have the orbital shipyard mod, so I figure that I should build a ship yard. So eight hours later, I have a station that has 50 tons of building parts, 100 gallons of fuels and a enough electricity to power the sun, So i decided to build a small probe to test it out and I notice it wasn't build so I waited four hours, then four day, then FOUR weeks in-game.(The nonstop swearing started here.) I notice I didn't include the FREAKING CONSTRUCTION MODULE! AKA THE THING THAT BUILDS THE DAMN SHIPS!
Stick a new module with a construction module and a claw up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 17, 2014, 11:24:28 pm
You know that thing you sometimes have, where you feel proud for achieving something so many others seem to have mastered? I felt that just now, when I got Jeb back into his pod after he lost his grip on the ladder somehow.
(http://i.imgur.com/mVzGNTv.png)
This success was tempered by the realization that I sent my Mysterious Goo canisters to burn up in the atmosphere on that rocket bit falling below us. And that the game got increasingly screwed up I collected more science upon landing, until I had to force-close it.

Next, I suppose I could try rendezvous. Or I could just go about my normal business.
I wonder how the rocket broke apart in midair.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 17, 2014, 11:40:31 pm
Probably that decoupler you have right under the capsule.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 18, 2014, 08:53:16 am
No, I mean the rocket part broke into two or three pieces at some point, after that, which I noticed when tabbing through debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 10:15:43 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 18, 2014, 08:53:16 am
No, I mean the rocket part broke into two or three pieces at some point, after that, which I noticed when tabbing through debris.

Deadly Reentry
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 18, 2014, 10:21:11 am
Does anyone have any tips for building planes with FAR?
I can't seem to build a proper plane that actually uses lift instead of pure TWR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 18, 2014, 10:29:11 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 18, 2014, 10:21:11 am
Does anyone have any tips for building planes with FAR?
I can't seem to build a proper plane that actually uses lift instead of pure TWR.

I usually just go with "does it look like a plane?" "Yes." "TEST IT!" "It exploded." "Make it look more like a plane."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 11:28:07 am
Something is not quite right here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80234)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 18, 2014, 04:06:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 11:28:07 am
Something is not quite right here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80234)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That seems very useful. Though unbalanced if you were to take smaller more efficient engines and just make them bigger to get the power and the efficiency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 18, 2014, 04:38:51 pm
I'm having trouble with FAR airplanes flipping over when I try to take off. Does anyone have more specific advice than "make sure it looks like a real airplane"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 04:40:39 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on May 18, 2014, 04:06:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 11:28:07 am
Something is not quite right here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80234)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That seems very useful. Though unbalanced if you were to take smaller more efficient engines and just make them bigger to get the power and the efficiency.

The resized engines currently aren't balanced at all. The equation needs tweaking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 05:13:12 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on May 18, 2014, 05:07:50 pm
So... Mutltiple mods installed. And now I get a 000_toolbar error. Halp?
I have:
CustomBiomes
DMagic Orbital Science
EditorExtensions
Engineer
EnhancedNavBall
KAS
Procedural Fairings
Kerbal Alarm Clock 2.7.3.0
Kethane
Mission Controller
NearFuture
Final Frontier
SelectRoot
SurfaceLights
Mk2 Cockpit.

Instal latest toolbar mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 18, 2014, 06:30:35 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 18, 2014, 04:38:51 pm
I'm having trouble with FAR airplanes flipping over when I try to take off. Does anyone have more specific advice than "make sure it looks like a real airplane"?
There's some guide videos on using the little numerical simulation thing FAR gives you, and that should help with general instability, especially for higher speed craft.

However, if it's simply an issue of flipping immediately, it's likely because you've got stuff in the wrong place. In general, you want your thrust and center of mass kept lined up, or things will flip. The other advice is to have wings up high on the craft, above the center of mass. A high center of lift will make the craft more stable/less maneuverable in general.

For example, I built this a long while back using FAR: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg4738838;topicseen#msg4738838
It was super stable due to the high center of lift; and while that was an older version of FAR, the general principle of the thing still stands.

Other advice: set up your control surfaces to only activate for pitch, yaw, or roll. If you have them doing all of them, it is much trickier to fly properly, both for you and your ASAS. Essentially because it makes the steering directions independent, so you don't really need to worry about your need to roll affecting your need to yaw.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 18, 2014, 07:57:19 pm
So the physics bug that ended up killing my career game has made its way to my sandbox game as well. I had hoped to do a followup to that space battle I posted, where I would destroy my broken prototype battleship. Unfortunately, every time the game loads a previous craft there is a chance that physics will shit itself and cause the craft to spontaneously disassemble, become uncontrollable, or otherwise render the game unplayable.

I updated FAR prior to this bug showing itself, but reverting to the previous version had no effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 18, 2014, 08:10:36 pm
I made a ship that has three individually detachable science juniors, each with their own autopilot, small fuel tank, and thruster, so I can fly them all back home once they're full of science.

Is there any point at all to this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 18, 2014, 08:39:03 pm
Dunno, but it might be nice for science seeding kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 18, 2014, 11:15:51 pm
There are at least two other mission packs. You'll have to dig. They aren't balanced. I haven't touched them since .23 and they date to .21 or .22.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 19, 2014, 03:01:58 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on May 18, 2014, 10:30:13 pm
On a side note, mods are awesome. I can't describe how fun my new career mode with budgets is, even though I started from scratch. I have to balance doing things I want (kethane probe and science) with things the game tells me to do (Sputnik III mission). Just wish there where more missions, because the starter ones go up rather... Harshly, I would say (from 'get to orbit' to 'dock with another ship' almost immediately.
I wouldn't say that's too harsh. Docking ports and RCS are unlocked quite early in the science tree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 19, 2014, 10:26:33 am
Modded ksp is the bees knees. Also my LP is stick because I'm feeling ashamed of triple posting. :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rabid_Cog on May 19, 2014, 11:24:56 am
I can fix that. Hold on a sec...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 19, 2014, 09:02:38 pm
Thanks.  :P

I just posted some stuff about the CactEye telescope, it is fukken amazing. Just be sure to get the KAS fix or your processors will be wrong.  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2014, 09:16:59 pm
I really hate that science becomes scarce after you spend several flights checking all the science stuff you can in Kerbin's atmosphere and orbit.

It's most likely because of my inability to get something into a safe Munar orbit to transmit science but meh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2014, 10:01:03 pm
Science seed kerbin then.
(science seeding invilves taking all the science things, shoving it on a lander, strapping a few of them to a rocket, and deorbiting at semi-random points. Science seeding)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 19, 2014, 10:03:31 pm
Usually my science gathering route is:

KSC and local atmosphere reports -> Far places (south pole, desert) reports -> KSC science goo/science jr -> far places science -> Orbital science -> munar/minmal science -> Kerbol science.

By kerbol you have enough science to equip (and haul) a beefy probe at duna or eve for hundreds of science at once. The initial farming is slow and boring as hell though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 20, 2014, 12:24:45 pm
But THEN. Then you've got all the science instruments, and you've got docking ports, and maybe nervas, and a lab too, of course, THEN you fly out to Jool and its moons and bring back 8000 science in one trip.

That is a good day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 20, 2014, 01:10:59 pm
:/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on May 20, 2014, 03:49:46 pm
Quote from: Djohaal on May 19, 2014, 10:03:31 pm
Usually my science gathering route is:

KSC and local atmosphere reports -> Far places (south pole, desert) reports -> KSC science goo/science jr -> far places science -> Orbital science -> munar/minmal science -> Kerbol science.

By kerbol you have enough science to equip (and haul) a beefy probe at duna or eve for hundreds of science at once. The initial farming is slow and boring as hell though.
Bah, best science method is obviously to unlock some of the basic science stuff and then launch a random kerbin armed with a radio on a permanent course with as many other planets as you can. I can easily unlock tons of stuff before even doing a moon landing or serious orbital stuff. (The Kerbin is a brave volunteer that usually ends up in interstellar space on exit from the Sun's sphere of influence).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 20, 2014, 03:53:00 pm
I am going to snap my own leg.

Once I accidentally sent a ship to Minmus (I think) and science logs were at about 8,000 total, but it never occured to me to do it seriously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2014, 03:09:17 am
Near Future Propulsion has updated. Or rather reformatted, as Near Future Technologies - a modularized set of various parts. Plus some new parts - some solar panels, some fuel tanks, and of course the finalized IVA for the new command pod. And of course the Liquid Hydrogen overhaul, with an option to make the stock (and non-stock) NTRs like the NERVA use Liquid Hydrogen as fuel instead of the current kerosene/oxidizer mix.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on May 21, 2014, 03:48:06 pm
So I just found this.  Undeniable proof that the Mun landing was staged.
http://i.imgur.com/looRY5v.gif
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 21, 2014, 04:01:31 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on May 21, 2014, 03:48:06 pm
So I just found this.  Undeniable proof that the Mun landing was staged.
http://i.imgur.com/looRY5v.gif

What great video footage they have
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 21, 2014, 04:02:07 pm
Yes, thats how you do it.

You look like you did less well then you did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 25, 2014, 06:29:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I nicknamed it "Tweety"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 25, 2014, 08:47:51 pm
Playing my interstellar quest mods, went to clean up debris from my past bunch of missions. Saw this at the top of the debris list. D:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 25, 2014, 08:59:51 pm
lol "debris" that is heartless
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 25, 2014, 09:29:04 pm
When you go around tearing stuff away with KAS it gets renamed to <kerbalname> debris. I have some 20 jebediah kerman debris orbiting kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 25, 2014, 09:40:25 pm
Quote from: Djohaal on May 25, 2014, 09:29:04 pm
When you go around tearing stuff away with KAS it gets renamed to <kerbalname> debris. I have some 20 jebediah kerman debris orbiting kerbin.
Yeah, looks like it's a gravitometer I must have ripped off in an attempt to make orbit after leaving my DSS-2 science vessel. Turns out my late Minmus lander design didn't have the delta V for the Mun. Nor did the jetpack after leaving it. Poor bugger.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 25, 2014, 10:20:21 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 19, 2014, 10:01:03 pm
Science seed kerbin then.
(science seeding invilves taking all the science things, shoving it on a lander, strapping a few of them to a rocket, and deorbiting at semi-random points. Science seeding)
Wouldn't almost all of them end up in the ocean?

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2014, 03:09:17 am
Near Future Propulsion has updated. Or rather reformatted, as Near Future Technologies - a modularized set of various parts. Plus some new parts - some solar panels, some fuel tanks, and of course the finalized IVA for the new command pod. And of course the Liquid Hydrogen overhaul, with an option to make the stock (and non-stock) NTRs like the NERVA use Liquid Hydrogen as fuel instead of the current kerosene/oxidizer mix.
Neat. Yet another reason to get a fresh install of KSP and replace the mods I'm actually going to use.


You know, just once, I'd like to not have my mutedness come into effect in the middle of a big KSP post and be about something I've finished, put behind me, and more or less forgotten.

I'm building a space station, because why not? The central module is a big one.

(http://i.imgur.com/95ZCF1N.png)

At the bottom is a single KWR Griffon XX, which gives this unwieldy thing an initial TWR of 1.375. Attached are four big fuel tanks from the KSO pack, feeding fuel into the central 3.75-meter Jumbo2 from KWR. They can be detached once they are emptied, which I hope doesn't happen during the gravity turn. On top is a procedural fairing hiding the station core.
Perhaps due to the high partcount of the station core (but I hope not), time runs at 30-40% normal speed. Twelve seconds in, the Titan began to overheat. By t+20 or so, though, it stabilized around maybe 40% heat. Half a minute in, we're two kilometers up. Shortly thereafter, between heat concerns and waste-due-to-air-resistance ones, I drop the throttle to 2/3. TWR still over 1.1. Around a minute and ten seconds in, I reach ten kilometers and start the gravity turn. I promptly discover that my rocket, while capable of turning, is a bit top-heavy. Are you familiar with xkcd's Up Goer V? I did not go to space today.

Redesign: Add two 3.75-meter radial reaction wheels. Well, two pairs of half-wheels, one at each end of the main orange tank.
I delayed my gravity turn ~5 km (10 to 16 km) because I expected the external tanks to run out faster. I turn, fall over, then...

(http://i.imgur.com/g1Hvm6H.png)

...
Maybe I should strut the station core. Or start smaller.

(http://i.imgur.com/ooQKrFt.png)


Well then. That's twice now that I've been muted when I was in the middle of a KSP post. Anyways, in the meantime I've kept myself busy, but I've still had time to waste on KSP. Specifically, I got an idea for a thing which required me to fly to Eve. It was interesting. First, there was my attempts at launching the craft (http://youtu.be/HgEk1nyUtKc), then I had to figure out planetary intercepts, then I got captured and barely had fuel left (I couldn't get a maneuver node for aerocapture), then the game wouldn't let me leave after the first craft (intentionally) failed. And my project requires me to crash a bunch of stuff into Eve. Yeah...Hyperedit will be used.
More updating: I think I'm mostly done, but each step I'm discovering more things I need to do. Even with HyperEdit, it's tough. Things are not burning up in Eve's atmosphere as fast as expected. (And don't get me started on the EVA-ing kerbonaut that survived all the way to the surface somehow...)

On a related note, does anyone know a method of save file editing or somesuch that can get me to a different position on the surface?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 25, 2014, 10:24:04 pm
Depends on the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 25, 2014, 10:31:23 pm
GWG: is that video yours? I lost my shit watching it.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: borno on May 26, 2014, 05:35:37 am
Got back into playing KSP, and my first task was to create a working refueling station and put it into stable orbit (I was never awfully good at KSP). I'm pleased to say that I accomplished my task with fuel to spare! I like to call it the 'Big Momma', even though it isn't awfully big. Giving your creations self-confidence is the first step to success, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 26, 2014, 09:22:44 am
I crashed into the sun :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2014, 09:46:50 am
Quote from: Japa on May 26, 2014, 09:22:44 am
I crashed into the sun :(

Impressive. You have to really try to do that. It's quite costly in dV.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 26, 2014, 10:07:02 am
Quote from: Djohaal on May 25, 2014, 10:31:23 pm
GWG: is that video yours? I lost my shit watching it.  :P
It sure is! Glad I made a good video.

Quote from: borno on May 26, 2014, 05:35:37 am
Got back into playing KSP, and my first task was to create a working refueling station and put it into stable orbit (I was never awfully good at KSP). I'm pleased to say that I accomplished my task with fuel to spare! I like to call it the 'Big Momma', even though it isn't awfully big. Giving your creations self-confidence is the first step to success, I think.
The second step is, of course, making them functioning. Who refuels the refueling station?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 26, 2014, 06:43:03 pm
Seriously, how do you edit things to be on the surface? The closest I can think of would have me screaming through the lower atmosphere at several kilometers per second...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 26, 2014, 07:59:15 pm
Theres probably a map that lists sea levels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 26, 2014, 08:02:20 pm
I think Hyperedit has a utility where you can place craft on the surface. I think you need to land something there manually and bookmark the site first though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 26, 2014, 08:10:48 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 26, 2014, 09:46:50 am
Quote from: Japa on May 26, 2014, 09:22:44 am
I crashed into the sun :(

Impressive. You have to really try to do that. It's quite costly in dV.

I was hoping to return with massive science, but somehow during the warp there, my orbit drifted downwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 26, 2014, 09:35:37 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 26, 2014, 08:02:20 pm
I think Hyperedit has a utility where you can place craft on the surface. I think you need to land something there manually and bookmark the site first though.
You can supposedly have it land/drop craft on a location. I've found that that tool is very useful for making ships explode for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 26, 2014, 10:31:53 pm
Woo! Successfully performed an orbital 7-point docking maneuver!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even more impressive, considering that heavy RCS tug on the end there is the only part of the structure with any sort of RCS thrusters, or even SAS systems.
Edit:

And, the second pair, with an in-progress docking.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So yeah. Now got a pair of hangar bays in space big enough to fit a couple Saturn Vs apiece. Eh, I'm sure I'll find a use for them eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 26, 2014, 11:42:58 pm
Here I was all proud of myself for doing my first ever no mechjeb rendezvous and docking (http://img.ie/2tatw.png) and you do some amazing thing like docking 7 points at once.

I even did mine with a spaceplane.  But now I see I must go bigger.  Much bigger.  Clearly I need to do an 8 point docking!  Yes that's the trick!

....I may need a bigger space station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
I captured an asteroid and am currently hollowing it out to make it a refueling and resupply base.

So far I have a kethane refinery and a small greenhouse (I am using TAC life support). Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water. I'll need to ship more water in.

Next addition will be a fuel hatch to use the 'hollowed out' space inside the rock as a fuel tank.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 09:08:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
...yes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 27, 2014, 09:18:30 am
Quote from: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 09:08:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
...yes?
The law of Conservation of Mass states that wouldn't be possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 27, 2014, 09:25:46 am
No it doesn't. That's kind of how chemical reactions work.

Also, it's conservation of energy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eotyrannus on May 27, 2014, 10:40:38 am
It's sunlight energy + water +co2 -> glucose + oxygen -> chemical energy + water + co2

But then the oxygen and carbon and hydrogen is used for other things too, like building structures, so you have to replace co2 and water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 11:18:50 am
Quote from: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 09:08:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
...yes?
It can be recovered. It's temporarily locked up in the sugars and such produced, but respiration turns it back into water. Same with other things hydrogen and oxygen are used for It's why Earth still has oceans. If water was permanently vanished, we'd be out of it by now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 11:56:41 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 11:18:50 am
Quote from: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 09:08:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
...yes?
It can be recovered. It's temporarily locked up in the sugars and such produced, but respiration turns it back into water. Same with other things hydrogen and oxygen are used for It's why Earth still has oceans. If water was permanently vanished, we'd be out of it by now.
You specified "in photosynthesis" though. If you'd said "when growing plants in a sealed environment" then it'd be fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on May 27, 2014, 02:31:59 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
I captured an asteroid and am currently hollowing it out to make it a refueling and resupply base.

So far I have a kethane refinery and a small greenhouse (I am using TAC life support). Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water. I'll need to ship more water in.

Next addition will be a fuel hatch to use the 'hollowed out' space inside the rock as a fuel tank.

Is this a mod? If so, which one? Hollowing out an asteroid sounds awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Metalsoul212 on May 27, 2014, 03:31:24 pm
http://i.imgur.com/uOqicyJ.gif
2 Stage water rocket, looks like someones been playing to much KSP!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 27, 2014, 03:58:11 pm
Forums down for two days. Can't update mods. HNG!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 27, 2014, 04:00:17 pm
Quote from: Metalsoul212 on May 27, 2014, 03:31:24 pm
http://i.imgur.com/uOqicyJ.gif
2 Stage water rocket, looks like someones been playing to much KSP!
I need to know how that works.

EDIT: Okay I found it out pretty quickly.
They use these (http://www.aircommandrockets.com/servo_timer_V2_0.htm) for timing. I wouldn't have expected electronics on a water rocket but there you go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 27, 2014, 05:05:56 pm
Modified my spaceplane to be a tug figuring I would get rid of some of the debris floating around in space before a future mission becomes buddy buddy with it in a bad way.

Saw an eclipse on my way up.
(http://img.ie/images/6wgv0_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/6wgv0.png.html)
(thumbnail)
On one hand it looks pretty cool, and it's probably crazy rare to see, especially if yer not looking for it.  On the other hand it meant my batteries were already mostly drained when I got to space because the solar panels were 'blocked by Mun' most of the trip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 05:19:00 pm
The kerbal's expression is perfect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 27, 2014, 05:36:24 pm
The science module of the K.S.S. "Willful Ignorance" was delivered and docked today. However, the station is now unbalanced and wobbly. Another mission will deliver KAS parts to strut up the weak docking node.
The more important issue with the science module is that the helium cryostats used for cooling the twin IR telescopes provide a major drain on the station's power; currently, because of insufficient power storage, the station goes dead whenever it is on the dark side of Kerbin. To alleviate the problem, the slated docking bay module will be pre-empted by a power module, consisting of a number of batteries and a small fission reactor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 27, 2014, 06:52:04 pm
My attempts to deorbit some debris resulted in catastrophic failure, the amount of debris in orbit has been quadrupled. 

My electromagnet didn't seem to be working, I would activate it in the cockpit, but it seemed that as soon as the kerbal grabbed it to attach it to the debris it would deactivate.  Perhaps my tug just dosn't have the battery capacity needed.  After I gave up on that I tried using the ship's body to try and push the debris out of orbit.  That went about how I should have expected in hindsight.

I managed to get the kerbal out of orbit with half a plane and fired the abort system but the cockpit managed to touch down on the edge of a steep mountainside. 

The parachute disconnected when it touched the ground but the cockpit picked up enough speed bouncing down the side of the mountain that the impact at the bottom was fatal.

Lessons learned: Using your spaceship as a bumpercar is a very very bad idea.   And mountains are dicks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 06:54:36 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water.
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
Eh, it's a mod and that was likely the simplest way to do it. I don't mind anyway, it gives me a slight logistics challenge.

Quote from: Azated on May 27, 2014, 02:31:59 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 05:42:42 am
I captured an asteroid and am currently hollowing it out to make it a refueling and resupply base.

So far I have a kethane refinery and a small greenhouse (I am using TAC life support). Greenhouse is creating oxygen and food for me, using up water. I'll need to ship more water in.

Next addition will be a fuel hatch to use the 'hollowed out' space inside the rock as a fuel tank.

Is this a mod? If so, which one? Hollowing out an asteroid sounds awesome.
I will link them when the forums are back up but I think one is called asteroid cities and the other is hollow asteroids. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 27, 2014, 07:01:24 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
Plants do require water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 07:15:32 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on May 27, 2014, 07:01:24 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 08:40:54 am
Because water is totally used up when plants photosynthesize.
Plants do require water.
I think his point is that the water can be reclaimed after eating the plants, and generally they do not suck up ALL of the water.

In any case, its good enough for a mod. I don't need a whole biosphere simulator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 07:15:32 pm
I think his point is that the water can be reclaimed after eating the plants, and generally they do not suck up ALL of the water.
Exactly. There is no good reason that, with sufficient influx of Electrical Charge, you shouldn't be able to set up a fully self-sufficient space colony...yet, no mod I've seen has dealt with such simple issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on May 27, 2014, 11:46:28 pm
The Duna base hit its launch window today, and is off. Duna, here we come!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 28, 2014, 05:32:51 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 07:15:32 pm
I think his point is that the water can be reclaimed after eating the plants, and generally they do not suck up ALL of the water.
Exactly. There is no good reason that, with sufficient influx of Electrical Charge, you shouldn't be able to set up a fully self-sufficient space colony...yet, no mod I've seen has dealt with such simple issues.
You will always have some loss, no system is perfectly sealed. And while all water is theoretically recoverable, not all water recovery is feasible. The processes we know to purify very dirty water take a great deal of space and power which are often not available on a space station.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: borno on May 28, 2014, 05:57:41 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 26, 2014, 10:07:02 am
Quote from: borno on May 26, 2014, 05:35:37 am
Got back into playing KSP, and my first task was to create a working refueling station and put it into stable orbit (I was never awfully good at KSP). I'm pleased to say that I accomplished my task with fuel to spare! I like to call it the 'Big Momma', even though it isn't awfully big. Giving your creations self-confidence is the first step to success, I think.
The second step is, of course, making them functioning. Who refuels the refueling station?
That's easier said than done. I've been trying for hours now to dock the darn thing, but they just bounce off each other like rubber everytime. I'm going to have to just download MechJeb and send another refueling ship up with the automatic docking system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 28, 2014, 06:11:12 am
Quote from: borno on May 26, 2014, 05:35:37 am
Giving your creations self-confidence is the first step to success, I think.

Spoiler: KSS Titanic (click to show/hide)

ok, not mine, and not the actual name  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 09:08:59 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 28, 2014, 05:32:51 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 27, 2014, 07:15:32 pm
I think his point is that the water can be reclaimed after eating the plants, and generally they do not suck up ALL of the water.
Exactly. There is no good reason that, with sufficient influx of Electrical Charge, you shouldn't be able to set up a fully self-sufficient space colony...yet, no mod I've seen has dealt with such simple issues.
You will always have some loss, no system is perfectly sealed. And while all water is theoretically recoverable, not all water recovery is feasible. The processes we know to purify very dirty water take a great deal of space and power which are often not available on a space station.
We've done a damn good approximation already, and we were supporting a wide variety of non-human organisms as well. I daresay that by the time we get back to having a regular space program again, we'll figure out how to waterproof our spacecraft and whatnot.
Also, note that I said space colony. Although a sufficiently large space station should also be able to be self-sufficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 10:06:42 am
I'm still interested in solutions for that get-to-the-surface save editing thing...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 28, 2014, 10:19:12 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 10:06:42 am
I'm still interested in solutions for that get-to-the-surface save editing thing...
No easy solutions that I know of, but if you install HyperEdit you can bring your vessel to the surface of any planet easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 28, 2014, 10:46:11 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 28, 2014, 10:19:12 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 10:06:42 am
I'm still interested in solutions for that get-to-the-surface save editing thing...
No easy solutions that I know of, but if you install HyperEdit you can bring your vessel to the surface of any planet easily.

...I lol'd
This is genius trolling right here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 11:15:40 am
I have HyperEdit. Didn't I mention earlier that trying to use the Land function makes my ship explode for no apparent reason?
Before you ask, it happens even when I'm above the terrain. And when I'm above the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 28, 2014, 11:27:53 am
Never had a problem with hyperedit but I don't use FAR or anything that changes how physics works in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 28, 2014, 12:09:32 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 11:15:40 am
I have HyperEdit. Didn't I mention earlier that trying to use the Land function makes my ship explode for no apparent reason?
Before you ask, it happens even when I'm above the terrain. And when I'm above the atmosphere.
I fail at following discussions. :P

Is it only the land function, or any translation function at all? HyperEdit basically does the exact same modifying the location thing, so even if you were to change the location of your ship in the persistence file, you'd get the same explosion for your troubles.

You might be better off just hacking fuel and gravity and landing the thing on manual. On that note, try to enable god mode (something about joint breakage, I forget what it's called) and try the Land function again. If it's something physical, an unbreakable ship should survive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 28, 2014, 12:17:53 pm
Do hyperedit respect the terrain lod? If you go with reduced terrain detail it might place you slightly above or belove the model
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 28, 2014, 01:04:58 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 28, 2014, 12:09:32 pm
Is it only the land function, or any translation function at all? HyperEdit basically does the exact same modifying the location thing, so even if you were to change the location of your ship in the persistence file, you'd get the same explosion for your troubles.
Just the Land function.

Quote
You might be better off just hacking fuel and gravity and landing the thing on manual. On that note, try to enable god mode (something about joint breakage, I forget what it's called) and try the Land function again. If it's something physical, an unbreakable ship should survive.
Tried it. Didn't help.
I suppose I could, but there's a few issues. One, Deadly Reentry. Two, precision.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 28, 2014, 01:58:51 pm
I would say get rid of deadly reentry even temporarily but it doesn't like that. Things from DR explode when you come back to them with no DR. It's a huuuuge flaw of that mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 28, 2014, 03:23:54 pm
I did all sorts of fun things last couple weeks. Captured an asteroid in Kerbal orbit, launched a couple SSTO's, neither of which had fuel left to maneuver much after completing their orbital burn. One of them is a silly, boxy biplane sort of thing. Performed science on the Mun.

Also identified an asteroid on a collision course and sent a probe that will probably have enough DV to at least shove it into a more civilized trajectory. There are maybe two or three others I need to worry about and I keep forgetting to write down their names, but none of them will pose a threat for a good half-year.

After the rendezvous with the deadly space rock, I'll probably nab the last of the science from Minmus and continue on the science the rest of the system. My brother is also learning to play the game, and got Jeb stuck in orbit around Kerbin.

Also, question: Anybody know how to extract any form of scientific data from asteroids? I can't get a space-rock related crew report from the ship docked to the captured space-rock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 28, 2014, 04:38:15 pm
you can only get a ground sample, by right clicking it. not sure if you need to be in EVA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 28, 2014, 07:35:14 pm
Get close, EVA, right click the roid, collect surface sample.

Also note: the surface sample is per biome. Which means: an asteroid in high orbit gives science. That same asteroid over the poles gives more science. That same asteroid over water gives more science... and so on. (at least, I'm pretty sure that how it works now; not sure if it uses ground biomes, but it does use space biomes at the very least)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Andux on May 28, 2014, 09:06:51 pm
AFAIK, it's for every combination of SoI + biome + situation.

Challenge mode:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 29, 2014, 07:00:02 am
Once more I am amazed and inspired by someone random creation on internet

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/26otqj/fa37_talon_from_film_stealth_replica/

Edit removed https because scary warnings

Story here http://www.reddit.com/comments/pz5kx
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 29, 2014, 07:39:16 am
Quote from: My Web Browser
You attempted to reach www.reddit.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as a248.e.akamai.net. This may be caused by a misconfiguration on the server or by something more serious. An attacker on your network could be trying to get you to visit a fake (and potentially harmful) version of www.reddit.com.
You should not proceed, especially if you have never seen this warning before for this site.
What the...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 29, 2014, 05:39:27 pm
More carry warnings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 29, 2014, 05:53:21 pm
Quote from: Andux on May 28, 2014, 09:06:51 pm
AFAIK, it's for every combination of SoI + biome + situation.

Challenge mode:
  • Land asteroid at KSC.
  • Construct a rugged all-terrain vehicle with a hullcam and heavy-duty robotic arm.
  • Recreate this album (http://imgur.com/gallery/mqGb3) with your new giant space rock BFF.

I now want to land an asteroid at KSC for bragging rights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 29, 2014, 05:55:59 pm
Quote from: Djohaal on May 29, 2014, 05:53:21 pm
Quote from: Andux on May 28, 2014, 09:06:51 pm
AFAIK, it's for every combination of SoI + biome + situation.

Challenge mode:
  • Land asteroid at KSC.
  • Construct a rugged all-terrain vehicle with a hullcam and heavy-duty robotic arm.
  • Recreate this album (http://imgur.com/gallery/mqGb3) with your new giant space rock BFF.

I now want to land an asteroid at KSC for bragging rights.
Land it there or just get it there?
Robbaz has already done the latter. And I'm reasonably certain I've seen people do the former too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on May 29, 2014, 06:19:29 pm
Land. No idea how many engines I'll need to strap on it, but I'll try. Could also make a giant parachute umbrella.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 30, 2014, 01:10:41 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61040-0-23-6S-Service-Compartment-Tubes-Design-smooth!

A mod to keep all the dangling part inside of the rocket
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 31, 2014, 10:03:29 pm
Okay, seriously, what am I doing wrong?

Like Scott Manley showed in one video, I quicksaved my ship while in orbit and (after copy-pasting the current orbit so I could revert), edited the orbit. First, I tried copy-pasting the "orbit" and other relevant-looking things from a landed ship, expecting them to explode and me to need to tweak the numbers until it worked. There was an infinite void of black. I tried dropping eccentricity to 0 to make me fall straight down. That broke the game again. Then I tried putting everything back the way it was. The game was still broken, even as I fled to the Space Center. (Thankfully, reloading helped.)
Then I tried again. Same effing result!

...What the hell went wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: guessingo on June 01, 2014, 01:38:53 pm
how quickly is the development of this game coming along? is it still an alpha? this looks like a 'perma-beta' game where they dont develop real fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 01, 2014, 01:56:51 pm
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Version_history
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on June 01, 2014, 02:09:33 pm
If you think you'd enjoy it but worry that the game will "never be truly fun because it was never truly finished", just get it. It was hilariously fun from the very first version, and each patch has only made that better. It's not one of those games where you only see potential in the future, and it never gets fully realised. What's already there is amazing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 01, 2014, 02:10:03 pm
2-3 months-ish for major patches. They don't trickle much. Right now Squad is balancing a monetary system, which is damn hard for this type of game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 01, 2014, 02:26:12 pm
anyone knows how to remove the no cloud radius in visual enhancement mod?

I explain: cloud seems to disappear in the ten meters surrounding the capsule.

sample image: solid cloud strata
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

same image with capsule in cloud showing the cloud 'hole':
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 01, 2014, 09:35:11 pm
Guys, once you hook onto a giant space rock, how the hell do you align it to your center of gravity?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 01, 2014, 09:41:25 pm
Quote from: Japa on June 01, 2014, 09:35:11 pm
Guys, once you hook onto a giant space rock, how the hell do you align it to your center of gravity?
Right click the rock to target center of mass, unlock the hook's gimbal, aim spacecraft at center of mass, lock gimbal
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 01, 2014, 10:15:07 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 01, 2014, 09:41:25 pm
Quote from: Japa on June 01, 2014, 09:35:11 pm
Guys, once you hook onto a giant space rock, how the hell do you align it to your center of gravity?
Right click the rock to target center of mass, unlock the hook's gimbal, aim spacecraft at center of mass, lock gimbal

Thrust really low because unless you have cockpit instruments you are not going to get it dead center. Too much thrust and your SAS can't compensate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 01, 2014, 10:57:46 pm
And whatever you do, don't use the time acceleration trick to kill rotation if you've got multiple craft hooked to it. That resulted in one of my craft being chopped up into tiny bits as it was rotated back into place, but not translated back into place. The resulting debris field arced away with a variance in velocity of around 300m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 02, 2014, 10:08:05 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on June 01, 2014, 02:09:33 pm
If you think you'd enjoy it but worry that the game will "never be truly fun because it was never truly finished", just get it. It was hilariously fun from the very first version, and each patch has only made that better. It's not one of those games where you only see potential in the future, and it never gets fully realised. What's already there is amazing.
Like Dwarf Fortress!

And seriously. Does no one have save-editing-or-otherwise-landing-precisely-and-quickly advice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 02, 2014, 11:34:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 02, 2014, 10:08:05 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on June 01, 2014, 02:09:33 pm
If you think you'd enjoy it but worry that the game will "never be truly fun because it was never truly finished", just get it. It was hilariously fun from the very first version, and each patch has only made that better. It's not one of those games where you only see potential in the future, and it never gets fully realised. What's already there is amazing.
Like Dwarf Fortress!

And seriously. Does no one have save-editing-or-otherwise-landing-precisely-and-quickly advice?

Nope. Rounding errors with physics loading pretty much kill you, especially when mods monkey with that. Drop back to stock physics/aerodynamics and use hyperedit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 02, 2014, 11:47:18 am
Or, like I said, go full debug and land manually. If your craft has more rocket-like qualities than a brick, it should be able to slow down and descend gently enough that DR will not affect you. If all else fails, come to a dead stop, hack gravity, and just fly where you need to be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 03, 2014, 01:19:56 pm
http://gfycat.com/MajesticPlumpLacewing
Horse airplane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 03, 2014, 01:30:44 pm
Quote from: alway on June 03, 2014, 01:19:56 pm
http://gfycat.com/MajesticPlumpLacewing
Horse airplane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvli6RdLpiI
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 03, 2014, 01:48:04 pm
so, this is the first time I am actually trying to reach duna with far and deadly reentry in carer mode.

this is how I intend to land there:
Spoiler: my bomb lander to reach duna (click to show/hide)

going down, the fins should stabilize descent while heat shields should protect science equipment.

drogue chutes open and the shield detaches, then the radial engines are enabled for powered landing.

at liftoff, the fins are detached, so tail becomes a pointy nose and the science equipment dropped to reveal a fifth engine.

will test a while in kerbin atmosphere then see how it goes. godspeed, Jedidiah.


update:

everything failed. mission to duna was successful.
I also sent a shipment with supplies and everything, so now jeb is back with bob and bill.



it is now year 2, day 152. I have 365 day of supplies, 3.4k dv, and no solution to get back home; the first window is in 500 days or so.


this is the only transfer solution that could make it. only ejection cost is shown; it assume a perfect burn straight into kerbin atmosphere .
Spoiler: from http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/ (click to show/hide)
and it relies 100% on aerobraking for capturing... which at that speed is next to impossible as orbit passes quite close to the sun, arriving at kerbin at an odd angle (odd angle = more dv between me and kerbin)

so I will have to mount a super fast shuttle to go and intercept the craft, slow it and drop it in the atmosphere at a reasonable speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 04, 2014, 08:17:38 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 02, 2014, 11:34:02 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 02, 2014, 10:08:05 am
Quote from: Anvilfolk on June 01, 2014, 02:09:33 pm
If you think you'd enjoy it but worry that the game will "never be truly fun because it was never truly finished", just get it. It was hilariously fun from the very first version, and each patch has only made that better. It's not one of those games where you only see potential in the future, and it never gets fully realised. What's already there is amazing.
Like Dwarf Fortress!

And seriously. Does no one have save-editing-or-otherwise-landing-precisely-and-quickly advice?
Nope. Rounding errors with physics loading pretty much kill you, especially when mods monkey with that. Drop back to stock physics/aerodynamics and use hyperedit.
I've been using Hyperedit.
And somehow, I don't think that the infinite-void-with-weirdly-spinning-altitude is due to conflicts with Deadly Reentry.

I'll probably give up on the stuff I've got and try messing around some with switching spacecraft instead of moving the one. If that fails...I'll just hack it there and land it normally or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 04, 2014, 09:35:02 am
I've been using hyperedit for many versions of stock physics without issue. It sets me down with the utmost gentleness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 04, 2014, 11:59:20 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 04, 2014, 09:35:02 am
I've been using hyperedit for many versions of stock physics without issue. It sets me down with the utmost gentleness.
It makes me explode the second after I press the button. For no apparent reason.


I had marginally more success this time! See, I was trying to get a big rocket to Eve, so I switched bits of its...thing in the quicksave file with the same bits from the thing on the ground.
Spoiler: What I took (Example) (click to show/hide)
I'd explain what happened to my rocket, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
Spoiler: Explanation (click to show/hide)
Any idea what caused this, or how I could change it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 04, 2014, 03:46:29 pm
I don't know how you're using hyperedit, but I do this:
kerbal orbit > target SOI orbit > land at target
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 04, 2014, 04:45:45 pm
I've been using the Land/Drop button. This causes an instantaneous explosion. Every time, without fail. And I don't see any "land at target" button...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 04, 2014, 04:53:26 pm
Whatever it's called. I don't have KSP open right now. There's a recommended order of operations from way back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 08:53:35 am
It doesn't say anything except what the button does. And...huh. Somehow, putting in 200,000 as altitude finally made it not explode! It might take a while to get down, though. Any idea why that worked even though lower pan-atmospheric ones didn't?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on June 06, 2014, 09:08:55 am
Watching Kirrim On Duty a millionth time made me ask myself, what would happen if Gilly actually hit Kerbin?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on June 06, 2014, 09:32:14 am
according to the physics engine?

a poof of smoke

manley already did this one, it'd be hard as fuck to actually move any planetary body (since they're on fixed orbits) but sure i'll run some basic, abstract as fuck math for you

we're taking gilly's mass from the wiki and calculating for the following impact speeds: 800m/s (atmospheric slowdown handwaved as for standard craft) and 3000m/s (interstellar speed necessary for interception, rounded to thousand)

for the first it's 9.93641×10^19 kg m/s/5.2915793×10^22 kg = 0.00187778 m/s

for the second it's 3.726154×10^20 kg m/s/5.2915793×10^22 kg = 0.00704167 m/s

so there, other than the damage slamming a giant fucking asteroid would do to an inhabited planet, nothing should really happen orbit-wise. now to wait for people who'll give enough a fuck to apply variables such as impact angle, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 09:53:18 am
Quote from: IronTomato on June 06, 2014, 09:08:55 am
Watching Kirrim On Duty a millionth time made me ask myself, what would happen if Gilly actually hit Kerbin?

It can't. Bodies are on rails.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 08:53:35 am
It doesn't say anything except what the button does. And...huh. Somehow, putting in 200,000 as altitude finally made it not explode! It might take a while to get down, though. Any idea why that worked even though lower pan-atmospheric ones didn't?

In all this time you could have read the entire thread at the ksp forum. Mods do not have the greatest faq's, if at all, but there's always the official forums.

I'm fairly sure it has to do with the differing gravitational forces in each SOI. Changing SOI's instantly is a big deal. A lot happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 09:57:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on June 06, 2014, 09:08:55 am
Watching Kirrim On Duty a millionth time made me ask myself, what would happen if Gilly actually hit Kerbin?
Well, I'm not sure, but given Gilly's density and size, if it hit Earth on land it would leave a crater 225 miles across and over a mile deep, which means that it would stretch across a few degrees of latitude even if it hit at the equator. And that's assuming minimal speed; if it's hitting the Earth as fast as anything orbiting the Sun can, it punches straight through the Earth's crust; the crater ends up 573 miles across and 1.43 miles deep. Rock melts; about half the melt remains in the mile-deep crater, forming a layer about nine miles deep. Supposedly.
(Source) (http://www.purdue.edu/impactearth/)

Oh, and now Land/Drop is always making everything explode again.

Quote from: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 09:53:18 am
In all this time you could have read the entire thread at the ksp forum. Mods do not have the greatest faq's, if at all, but there's always the official forums.
...
So, you're saying that you expected me to get "read the forum thread" from your statements, which never mentioned said thread in any way.
Thanks for being so clear!

Oh, and the forum thread is defunct. So you're even less helpful than I initially thought!

Quote
I'm fairly sure it has to do with the differing gravitational forces in each SOI. Changing SOI's instantly is a big deal. A lot happens.
I'm fairly certain Eve's SoI extends more than 200 kilometer from its surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 06, 2014, 10:04:31 am
Being on a body when another body's SoI suddenly overtakes you causes a form of kraken iirc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 10:07:35 am
I don't have all the information, so yes. Best to go to the originator of the mod/tool and the hundreds of other eyes that have used it. I use hyperedit very rarely and when I do I'm going off of advice I heard when it first came out and I don't even think much about the why anymore.

Eve's SOI is over 85000 km. It's atmosphere is out to a fraction of that. It rotates at a different velocity than Kerbin. All these factors plus rounding errors build up and will tear a craft apart if they suddenly appear on or near the surface of one SOI to another SOI, atmosphere or no atmosphere. Just going surface to surface purely on Kerbin will possibly make some number rounding tear you apart. KSP is made to deal with surface to air to space to different SOI to air to surface. If it couldn't do this we wouldn't even have a release. It fiddles with numbers the whole way and things still do occasionally fall apart, ie kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on June 06, 2014, 10:20:03 am
I wasn't talking about "What would happen realistically". During the video I mentioned, Danny used hyper edit to put Gilly on a collision course with Kerbin. I was asking how the game itself would have responded if he let it happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 06, 2014, 10:38:55 am
Quote from: IronTomato on June 06, 2014, 10:20:03 am
I wasn't talking about "What would happen realistically". During the video I mentioned, Danny used hyper edit to put Gilly on a collision course with Kerbin. I was asking how the game itself would have responded if he let it happen.
Planets don't collide. They would have just passed through each other. What would have happened to any craft on the surface of either planet is hard to say, but anywhere between "violently destroyed" and "crash the game" is possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 01:24:40 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on June 06, 2014, 10:04:31 am
Being on a body when another body's SoI suddenly overtakes you causes a form of kraken iirc.
Quote from: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 10:07:35 am
Eve's SOI is over 85000 km. It's atmosphere is out to a fraction of that. It rotates at a different velocity than Kerbin. All these factors plus rounding errors build up and will tear a craft apart if they suddenly appear on or near the surface of one SOI to another SOI, atmosphere or no atmosphere. Just going surface to surface purely on Kerbin will possibly make some number rounding tear you apart. KSP is made to deal with surface to air to space to different SOI to air to surface. If it couldn't do this we wouldn't even have a release. It fiddles with numbers the whole way and things still do occasionally fall apart, ie kraken.
Good thing I was going from the surface, to Kerbin orbit, to Eve orbit, and only then using the Land/Drop function. Except that it didn't work. (Well, it worked once. Still not sure what was going on then or how to replicate it.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 02:09:03 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 01:24:40 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on June 06, 2014, 10:04:31 am
Being on a body when another body's SoI suddenly overtakes you causes a form of kraken iirc.
Quote from: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 10:07:35 am
Eve's SOI is over 85000 km. It's atmosphere is out to a fraction of that. It rotates at a different velocity than Kerbin. All these factors plus rounding errors build up and will tear a craft apart if they suddenly appear on or near the surface of one SOI to another SOI, atmosphere or no atmosphere. Just going surface to surface purely on Kerbin will possibly make some number rounding tear you apart. KSP is made to deal with surface to air to space to different SOI to air to surface. If it couldn't do this we wouldn't even have a release. It fiddles with numbers the whole way and things still do occasionally fall apart, ie kraken.
Good thing I was going from the surface, to Kerbin orbit, to Eve orbit, and only then using the Land/Drop function. Except that it didn't work. (Well, it worked once. Still not sure what was going on then or how to replicate it.)

*shrug*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 03:05:30 pm
How, exactly, do modified physics change things up? I mean, FAR and Deadly Reentry shouldn't change things when I'm dropping them from outside the atmosphere, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 03:10:22 pm
Many mods play by the rules. The rules of stock. They have set values for things. I'm guessing hyperedit doesn't read Eve from any sort of variable, if it even can. It probably uses hardcoded stock values.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 06, 2014, 10:49:00 pm
...What values? And, again, how would Deadly Reentry or FAR change anything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 06, 2014, 10:53:09 pm
Values in the base game.

Some mods do sneaky things like change the shape, size, mass or similar of a object.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 06, 2014, 11:52:13 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on June 06, 2014, 10:53:09 pm
Values in the base game.

Some mods do sneaky things like change the shape, size, mass or similar of a object.

They change the stresses at which parts explode, for example. G's, heat, whatever it may take to cause explosions.

DR and FAR change everything for a vehicle in motion. Make a craft with DR installed, fly it into space, and then remove DR and load the craft. That craft will likely explode so violently the moment physics loads that pieces that survived will be traveling at or near the speed of light. KAS will periodically do that. FAR changes the properties of every part in the game, I think. Everything has interacting drag. Put a fairing around parts and the fairing's drag has precedent instead of all the parts inside. Okay now what if a ship in flight suddenly gets confused and the fairing no longer enters into the equation? Suddenly your drag mounts up and you're likely to get forces on all your parts that weren't designed to take it. Between that and DR, in atmosphere, things are probably going to explode. The vehicle will at least tear itself apart.

Some FAR faq stuff on how mods interact (or don't):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 06, 2014, 11:55:38 pm
FAR wipes the aerodynamic data of most parts and calculates its own. It may be that changing position with HyperEdit makes something break in that calculation.

It's more likely that you're just hitting some design peculiarity, mostly phantom forces appearing out of nowhere. I had that with HE previously, and I was able to save the ship by turning on indestructible joints and quicksaving right after the jump. Quickloading then wiped the phantom forces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 07, 2014, 12:49:21 am
Off the current topic but I caught this screenshot and couldn't resist:

Spoiler: I'm trying to VTOL, am I doing it right? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 07, 2014, 09:52:38 am
Quote from: Greiger on June 07, 2014, 12:49:21 am
Off the current topic but I caught this screenshot and couldn't resist:

Spoiler: I'm trying to VTOL, am I doing it right? (click to show/hide)

Damnit FAR, why you destroy all our hopes and dreams?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 09, 2014, 01:38:41 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82118-KSP-64bits-on-Windows-%28this-time-it-s-not-a-request%29

64-bit for windows
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 09, 2014, 01:59:01 pm
Lots of mods don't work with it. Have to be compiled against it, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 09, 2014, 06:02:41 pm
Got a design for you all, the Stone Incorporated Heavy Tug V1.5.
Comes with the base for a asteroid base.
Spoiler: link (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on June 09, 2014, 06:39:35 pm
I will just drop this here http://gfycat.com/MajesticPlumpLacewing
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Teneb on June 09, 2014, 07:09:21 pm
Could anyone point me to a recommended mods list? I'm looking at the mod library in the forums, but it'd be nice to know what mods you guys think are worth it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 09, 2014, 10:15:22 pm
I was trying to figure out why my propellers weren't listing any thrust. Then I noticed the throttle was off.
After that...well...these things would be easier to fly if my MechJeb was working. Its attitude is pretty much uncontrollable by human hands, and the batteries drain a lot faster than they did in the upper atmosphere for some reason.


Advice I wish someone had given me five minutes ago: "Never quicksave when your parachutes are out. Especially when you're 50 meters above the surface."

I lost Jeb and hours of setup to that one. Curse you, oceans of Eve and your inability to let a kerbonaut land safely! Thankfully, hacking healed this ill.


Update on the above: Hacking gravity let me land it in the ocean. Hilarity ensued when I (without hacking) tried to get the copter on land from two inches from it. Usually, the hilarity involved me either sliding through the water and losing bits or me shooting up into the air, crashing into the ground, and then the cockpit and some other bits slid back into the water.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 10, 2014, 09:30:37 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 09, 2014, 10:15:22 pm
Advice I wish someone had given me five minutes ago: "Never quicksave when your parachutes are out. Especially when you're 50 meters above the surface."
You know, that's why the stock game forbids quicksaves in atmosphere. You're using Deadbeef's quicksave mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 09:57:04 am
Stock game doesn't forbid that. It was added in 0.23.5
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 10, 2014, 10:12:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 09:57:04 am
Stock game doesn't forbid that. It was added in 0.23.5

It's still a bad idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 10:59:18 am
Why? A bug is a bug, plenty of simulator allow you to save in midst of anything. Until the rail system kicks in, this game phisics is just the stock unity physix
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 10, 2014, 11:06:46 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 09:57:04 am
Stock game doesn't forbid that. It was added in 0.23.5
Well, whaddayaknow.

Guess I haven't played much lately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 06:33:53 pm
just found out remote tech mod has a 'active vessel' setting for dishes antennae, which points them to whatever you are flying.


it makes everything 100x easier, I was pairing satellites by hand up until now

now I have a single satellite in polar orbit paired to a geosat over kerbin and with the mun/minmus repeater for 100% uptime, with all kind of dishes set in 'active vessel' mode so that I can just fly things and point them back at the commsat.

Spoiler: so many dishes! (click to show/hide)

...yep, couple of gigantor were ripped while decoupling the nuclear engine  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Djohaal on June 10, 2014, 06:56:06 pm
what remote tech build are you using? Last one I used was royally bork™
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 10, 2014, 11:40:59 pm
Quote from: Djohaal on June 10, 2014, 06:56:06 pm
what remote tech build are you using? Last one I used was royally bork™

Either play .23 and possibly get a memory leak and complete lockup or wait for .24
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 11, 2014, 02:11:45 am
Found one that works for 0.23.5 on the forums but it is now submerged by million posts.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56399-0-23-RemoteTech-2-v1-3-3-Late-Christmas-Edition?p=901076&viewfull=1#post901076


Maight be this one. If it isn't pm me and I'll mail the dll to you. If you are crazy enough to trust random people from internet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 11, 2014, 08:28:12 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 10, 2014, 10:59:18 am
Why? A bug is a bug, plenty of simulator allow you to save in midst of anything. Until the rail system kicks in, this game phisics is just the stock unity physix
There is, however, one notable issue.
Quicksaves make the game forget that your parachutes were still open.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 11, 2014, 03:49:29 pm
So, who else submitted things for HOCGaming's thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 11, 2014, 08:57:19 pm
What thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 11, 2014, 10:00:01 pm
His "final mission" series, he invited people to send in a ship, and I sent in the tug thats on the last page.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 02:23:49 am
So I packed 13km dv in a scansat satellite: objectice, eve!

But it was the wrong time of the year so I couldn't get a intercept unless passing in sun orbit and waiting for the window. So I went to moho.

It wasn't a good intercept and I passed by at 8km/s, far more of what I had left to circularize my orbit.

I collected what scan data I could then, at the other end of the moho soi, I found an almost perfect intercept to eve

Mission accomplished!

Almost. Need to get there and see if I can circularize but eve has one thing moho doesn't to help me: atmosphere so tick asteroids float*

*figuratively. Need to try anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 12, 2014, 08:56:29 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on June 11, 2014, 10:00:01 pm
His "final mission" series, he invited people to send in a ship, and I sent in the tug thats on the last page.
Ah. I have a Eve-copter that if I had heard about this before it was over (and before I learned that it couldn't really take off from Eve, at least not easily), I would have submitted it.
I like how he just stayed silent through much of the Duna-plane-with-too-many-numbers test. Also amusing was how he said it would take more than a minute per craft, but the video was almost exactly one minute for each craft he tested.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 02:23:49 am
...atmosphere so tick asteroids float*
*figuratively. Need to try anyway.
At 20 degrees Celsius and one atm of pressure, air has a density of 1.2 kg/m3. According to the KSP wiki, Eve's atmospheric pressure is 5 atm; assuming a mean surface temperature of 100 degrees Celsius, we should be able to get somewhere.
The Ideal Gas Law states that PV=nRT. Let us assume that the atmospheric composition of Eve and Earth are similar in molar mass, so n is proportional to density. Thus, for Earth, we have (1 atm)(1 m3)=n(8.205e-5 m3*atm*K-1*mol-1)(293 K), with n equaling 41.6 (assuming the math and the constant are correct--the constant was screwed up the first time I did this). Similarly, for Eve, we have (5)(1)=n(8.205e-5)(373), with x being 163.4, very nearly four times the value for Earth. Thus, we can conclude that Eve's atmosphere would be roughly four times denser than Earth's (not quite five kg/m3, or 4.8 milligrams per cubic centimeter). That's not dense enough for much of anything, save lighter gases, to float on top of.

Sorry, Eve's atmosphere cannot float asteroids.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on June 12, 2014, 10:54:43 am
*begins hollowing out an asteroid to fill with hydrogen*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 11:22:35 am
So hum what is this hollowing asteroid mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on June 12, 2014, 02:25:55 pm
It doesn't actually exist, sorry. I just posted that to spite GreatWyrmGold and his claim of Eve's atmosphere being unable to float asteroids.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 12, 2014, 02:32:26 pm
Quote from: Leonon on June 12, 2014, 02:25:55 pm
It doesn't actually exist, sorry. I just posted that to spite GreatWyrmGold and his claim of Eve's atmosphere being unable to float asteroids.
I'm not sure that an asteroid, hollowed out, filled with hydrogen, and then plugged up before being dropped into Eve's atmosphere would count as an asteroid any more than a zeppelin counts as being hematite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 12, 2014, 03:31:07 pm
Quote from: Leonon on June 12, 2014, 02:25:55 pm
It doesn't actually exist, sorry. I just posted that to spite GreatWyrmGold and his claim of Eve's atmosphere being unable to float asteroids.

Attach enough balloons to an asteroid and you might be able to float it in Eve atmosphere. Yes, this mod does exist. I think any docking you attempted would rip apart from the weight of the asteroid. Search Hooligan Labs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 04:46:07 pm
problem statement:

fit a crane for minmus base building which can be put into orbit using far&deadly reentry.


Spoiler: solution #1231, unfoldable crane (click to show/hide)

using infernal robotic to pack up the structure, kas to strut pieces together once unfolded

need to fix those stairs, however :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 12, 2014, 04:56:15 pm
Quote from: Leonon on June 12, 2014, 02:25:55 pm
It doesn't actually exist, sorry. I just posted that to spite GreatWyrmGold and his claim of Eve's atmosphere being unable to float asteroids.
I'm sorry but actually it does (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80522-WIP-Hollow-Asteroids).
forsaken mentioned it earlier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 05:50:07 pm
album from my duna mission using FAR, DR and TAC (plus some more, but not here)

http://imgur.com/a/KfMQA
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 12, 2014, 06:03:44 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 04:46:07 pm
using infernal robotic to pack up the structure, kas to strut pieces together once unfolded

Have you tried quantum struts? There's a KAS version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 12, 2014, 06:06:14 pm
I prefer the kas attachable strut, quantum strut just link magically, kas strut you have to grab them in eva and do the attachment

Spoiler: like this, demonstrated by jeb (click to show/hide)

the strut between the yellow attachment is created by kas during eva - jeb is holding the second one, to be attached to another empty point


.....  :(


any mod that fix the wheel friction on low gravity bodies?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on June 12, 2014, 08:33:01 pm
My most successful KSP save so far met its end in save corruption. I was sending a Kethane refinery to Duna, realized that it had no source of power, and sent a KAS care package after it with some solar panels. And then, after quickloading, my ship went dark and to an altitude of a lot of sixes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 13, 2014, 05:36:51 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on June 12, 2014, 08:33:01 pm
My most successful KSP save so far met its end in save corruption. I was sending a Kethane refinery to Duna, realized that it had no source of power, and sent a KAS care package after it with some solar panels. And then, after quickloading, my ship went dark and to an altitude of a lot of sixes.
That darn hell kraken. It's pretty rare for it to strike outside the deepest depths of Jool, so there you go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 13, 2014, 06:06:25 pm
I actually got it a couple times on kerbin, but never during load.  I was able to restart the game and load a quicksave and it was back to normal.

I ended up identifying the culprit as my plane crashing while a kerbal was loose in the cargo bay of a kethane cargo plane.  It seems having kerbals loose anywhere on a moving object is very good at causing issues. 

Wonder if anyone has made any kind of autobackup mod that backs up and compresses a few copies of a save.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 14, 2014, 04:07:21 am
I wanted to swich to my second lander, instead I focused this piece of debris

because it's moving, I can't swap out of it, and I can't exit without reverting to pre launch


Spoiler: I am trapped into a rounded contraption until it stops (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 14, 2014, 06:33:34 am
Hey, at least you didn't switch to an RCS port that started falling through the surface the moment you switch to it. That happened to me once and it literally just kept on going forever.

How can that thing roll for so long? Isn't friction supposed to stop it or make it fall over or w/e?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 14, 2014, 07:22:35 am
Quote from: miauw62 on June 14, 2014, 06:33:34 am
Hey, at least you didn't switch to an RCS port that started falling through the surface the moment you switch to it. That happened to me once and it literally just kept on going forever.

How can that thing roll for so long? Isn't friction supposed to stop it or make it fall over or w/e?

It was on the second highest point on minmus, I kid you not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 14, 2014, 11:19:36 am
I do like that particular mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 14, 2014, 09:35:53 pm
I decided to make a jetcar.  After a couple iterations I made one that only flips out the majority of the time at high speed.

Unfortunately it has another issue.

(http://img.ie/images/qs2wm_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/qs2wm.png.html)

I'm not sure if I'm doing it right or very very wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2014, 04:03:47 am
Reminds me of one of the spaceplane design in HOCGaming's Hypertesting. It was basically a liquid fuel tank, a cabin and an engine. It was surprisingly stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on June 15, 2014, 10:30:52 am
Quote from: Greiger on June 14, 2014, 09:35:53 pm
I decided to make a jetcar.  After a couple iterations I made one that only flips out the majority of the time at high speed.

Unfortunately it has another issue.

(http://img.ie/images/qs2wm_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/qs2wm.png.html)

I'm not sure if I'm doing it right or very very wrong.
Kerbal Horseshoe Theory.

There is no distinction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 15, 2014, 10:43:09 am
Quote from: Greiger on June 14, 2014, 09:35:53 pm
I decided to make a jetcar.  After a couple iterations I made one that only flips out the majority of the time at high speed.

Unfortunately it has another issue.

(http://img.ie/images/qs2wm_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/qs2wm.png.html)

I'm not sure if I'm doing it right or very very wrong.
This is why very fast cars are shaped to push them down against the ground. Because if you don't, they will get lifted off the ground, flip over, and explode. Which doesn't actually work in KSP, since the ground is full of physics bugs, and pressing down against it will likely just push your wheel into the ground or introduce some fatal instability.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 15, 2014, 11:02:37 am
Unfortunately I wasn't able to land the thing.  While it has no control surfaces whatsoever outside of the reaction wheel in the cockpit, it's incredibly stable at full thrust like Sheb said.  A little overstable though since it pitches and rolls very sluggishly.  Yaw is only a little better thanks to the vectoring jets, but tends to force a roll with the yaw if I'm not careful with it.

I actually made an attempt to keep it on the ground though, an old design would lift off and do a backflip at about 200mph.  I added an attempt at a spoiler to the back of it which is basically just a very thin downward angled wing above the engines.   It did a very good job of keeping the thing on the ground up to about 500 mph where the ground dipped and it got airborne.

Unfortunately I think that is what is making it hard to land, because when the engines are not near full power it wants to lose altitude rapidly and flip out.   So I guess the spoiler works, just not with the full power of the engines fighting it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2014, 11:18:11 am
To be honest, 500 mph is a let of a lot of speed for a ground vehicle. IIRC, the only vehicle that beat that on Earth only rolled on salt flats for a reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 15, 2014, 11:25:03 am
I was hoping to break the mach barrier :P  And it took off from the grounds around the KSC which as far as I know is the closest thing we have to the salt flats.  The dip was where the KSC starts to dip into the ocean.  So I suppose flight was the best thing that could have happened, since I haven't figured out how to make the breaks not be an "Explode the car" button at even highway speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2014, 11:26:11 am
There's probably a good place on Eve and that jetcar looks pretty small...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 15, 2014, 11:35:40 am
Why is everyone talking like building a plane that can fly without wings is an achievement?

I haven't been able to build a plane that can fly with wings ;-; (they always get torn off)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2014, 11:56:21 am
Anything can fly if you give it powerful enough engines. This is true in reality as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on June 16, 2014, 11:34:10 am
(http://achievecraft.com/cimage/6590nod/Mun+landing+get%21/using+only+T1+Tech%21/mca.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 16, 2014, 04:52:57 pm
Quote from: Putnam on June 15, 2014, 11:56:21 am
Anything can fly if you give it powerful enough engines. This is true in reality as well.
Well...not ANYTHING.

Things like black holes can't really "fly" due to the fact if they contact atmosphere they instantly destroy whatever planet they would be "flying" around. Though I guess one method of achieving flight is to remove the ground from the equation... O.o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 16, 2014, 05:00:04 pm
A black hole in the atmosphere certainly wouldn't be instant! It'd be quick, of course, but not instant.

Flying isn't throwing yourself at the ground and missing; that's what orbit is!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 16, 2014, 06:17:47 pm
If the black hole were small enough to fit in the atmosphere it would just dissipate I'm reasonably sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 16, 2014, 11:37:18 pm
black holes are not antimatter.  contacting matter does not cause annihilation, it just feeds them.

If you had a sufficiently advanced spaceship using microscopic black holes as a power source (the smaller and shorter lived they are, the more energy they give off through hawking radiation) you could refuel it (extend its life) by throwing it through the center of a planet and picking it up on the other side.

Most planets would not notice the difference.  The radiation effects as it passed through the atmosphere would be vastly more noticeable than whatever matter it absorbed on its way through the crust / mantle / core / other side.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2014, 03:58:35 am
But wouldn't it be quite the problem that whatever mass you'd take from the planet, you'd have to carry around afterward? What's the energy density of black holes compared to other fuels?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on June 17, 2014, 09:11:25 am
Interesting question. So interesting I decided to check it out. :P

The wikipedia article for Hawking radiation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation) gives several formulae and examples. One of the examples is semi-useful here. A ~200 ton black hole evaporates in about a second, producing a total of ~1022 J of energy. As with all large energies, for some reason, wikipedia compares with bombs; this is equivalent to 5 million megatons of TNT. Another useful comparison is that 2022 J over 1 second (i.e. Watts.) is about a ten-thousandth of the luminosity of the Sun. The volume for such a black hole, using Schwatzchild radius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartzchild_radius) for volume calculation purposes, is ~10-22 meters, i.e. significantly smaller than a proton. The energy would be released almost exclusively as high-energy gamma-rays, though so you'd probably have a tough time harnessing it. On the other hand, if you're already making tiny black holes then you should have learned to capture and harness high-energy gamma rays by now, I'd say.

So, in conclusion, <<stellar mass black holes have incredible energy densities. They don't scale well upwards, though, an earth-mass black hole has a luminosity on the order of 10-18 W, which is not very exciting at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 17, 2014, 04:35:42 pm
in other news, I made my first successful career flight with interstellar relay powered thermal turbojet!

http://imgur.com/a/Gky3n

because first gen fission reactor are soo underpowered, I had to use two massive relays - four reactors, one generator, massive radiator all over the place

I learned interesting things however:

one antenna front and one back is enough to cover 360 degree of flight, even if efficiency drop at an angle (and thrust with it)

I packed some fuel but the turbojet defaulted to consume my monopropellant first :P

There is massive lag when interstellar recalculate the relay path, might be an artifact of me entering and exiting the 2km physical bubble around relays.

antenna produce heat waste and thus most of the fuselage were inline radiators.

to reach space, need more booster.


edit: it was actually an ATTILA engine, shame on me


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 17, 2014, 04:48:55 pm
It's best to put your reactors well away from Kerbal Command so you don't get physics loading during launch and such. I drive mine at least 3-4 km away. You'll have faster load time when first launching a vehicle from VAB/SPH if Command is clear of other vehicles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 17, 2014, 04:52:29 pm
all reactors have broken the wheels upon descending the landing strip XD

will put some in orbit before properly launching real microwave powered craft :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 17, 2014, 05:06:56 pm
More wheels. Bigger wheels. You can also repair wheels with a kerbal. I put a reactor on a blimp and sent it over to the abandoned landing strip. You could also paradrop some around kerbin for funsies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on June 17, 2014, 06:28:36 pm
OK children remember this, do not make the kerbal jet pack, just don't it can save your life from a 10,000 meter free fall after being propelled by a rocket, DO NOT MOCK IT!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 17, 2014, 08:30:11 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 17, 2014, 04:52:29 pm
all reactors have broken the wheels upon descending the landing strip XD

will put some in orbit before properly launching real microwave powered craft :P
For launch purposes, I recommend putting a bunch in a roughly kerbo-stationary orbit above the launch pad in addition to those on the ground. Circularizing with massive thrust and 519 ISP is insanely great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 25, 2014, 10:07:38 pm
So.....finally picked up the full version of this. Have managed to do several sub-orbital missions to mountains, ice caps, highlands, etc.
Also made a science rocket with three science modules to pick up data for in-flight, low space and high space all in one go.
But now I'm running out of places to do science, and I still haven't a clue how to get to Mun with the tech that I have.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 25, 2014, 10:12:31 pm
You can get to the Mun without spending any science points. Hit up the wiki for Kerbin biomes you've missed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 26, 2014, 01:18:11 am
To Mun without fancy math in 5 easy steps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 04:04:25 am
Mün lithobraking: The only way a true Kerbal goes to the Mün his first time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 26, 2014, 05:22:46 am
Quote from: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 04:04:25 am
Mün lithobraking: The only way a true Kerbal goes to the Mün his first time.
Usually after parachute deployment fails.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 26, 2014, 05:35:18 am
Quote from: Graknorke on June 26, 2014, 05:22:46 am
Quote from: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 04:04:25 am
Mün lithobraking: The only way a true Kerbal goes to the Mün his first time.
Usually after parachute deployment fails.

How would succesful chute deployment prevent smashing on the mun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 26, 2014, 07:29:46 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 26, 2014, 05:35:18 am
Quote from: Graknorke on June 26, 2014, 05:22:46 am
Quote from: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 04:04:25 am
Mün lithobraking: The only way a true Kerbal goes to the Mün his first time.
Usually after parachute deployment fails.

How would succesful chute deployment prevent smashing on the mun?
Clearly the chute is woven from hyper powerful solar sails, that's how.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 26, 2014, 08:00:24 am
The key is having the parachutes face towards the Mun, and have enough of them that the force of their activation slows your descent - not to mention having all that fabric acting as a cushion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 08:48:52 am
Now I'm wondering if you could actually do lithobraking and survive. Maybe a massive cushion of girders?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 26, 2014, 09:28:58 am
Quote from: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 08:48:52 am
Now I'm wondering if you could actually do lithobraking and survive. Maybe a massive cushion of girders?

In real life they did this a few times with probes and rovers and such I believe. So its definitely possible IRL.

In KSP its a bit harder due to physics being what it is. Its certainly not impossible, I've experimented with it and had lithobrake cages that could keep you alive at up to 70 kps (KSP uses kps right? I just realized I haven't played in a long time o.o)

Granted even at just 70 your ship would still end up getting incredibly messed up, I've had times where just the capsule survived, so its probably best to keep it as a "extreme backup plan"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 26, 2014, 09:32:25 am
Quote from: Silfurdreki on June 26, 2014, 08:48:52 am
Now I'm wondering if you could actually do lithobraking and survive. Maybe a massive cushion of girders?

Airbags:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/83134
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 26, 2014, 01:38:27 pm
Girder segments are actually amazing for lithobraking. Beware though, as sometimes you will break the planet instead.

The old rule of thumb for flying to the Mun was simple - burn prograde at munrise. Certainly not efficient, but it works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 26, 2014, 10:29:31 pm
Have gotten a probe into almost-orbit. Inevitably, it winds up being a "3/4 of the around the world, followed by smoking crater".

How on earth Kerbal do you get solid rocket stages big enough to get you up to orbit alt before switching to the liquid rockets? Mine always overheat or come apart horrifically. I'm thinking that maybe I'm trying to go too big and just need to stick to one solid booster rather than a glom of three tri-stacks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eagle_eye on June 26, 2014, 10:48:15 pm
For my bigger rockets, the first stage usually has something in the neighborhood of 30 of the doubletall rocket boosters. Just add more rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on June 26, 2014, 11:04:50 pm
Quote from: RedKing on June 26, 2014, 10:29:31 pm
How on earth Kerbal do you get solid rocket stages big enough to get you up to orbit alt before switching to the liquid rockets? Mine always overheat or come apart horrifically. I'm thinking that maybe I'm trying to go too big and just need to stick to one solid booster rather than a glom of three tri-stacks.
I got yelled at for doing this, but build a pyramid shape. Also, make sure to use the symmetry tool. Makes things much easier. When you get fuel lines, then look up "Asparagus staging."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 26, 2014, 11:07:06 pm
Keep it simple. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53792-Can-you-guys-show-off-your-early-career-vehicles Post number 2 is perfectly fine. Make something kinda like that but stick rocket boosters directly attached to the bottoms of the first stage liquids. As they heat up and you get towards the end of their solid fuel crank up your liquid fuel rockets and get the boosters to blow up. Do a few runs to get the timing just right.

Ignore asparagus. You won't have that for awhile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 27, 2014, 12:34:46 am
Spoiler: From that thread (click to show/hide)
Remember when anything big was like that? Those were some good times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on June 27, 2014, 01:38:50 am
Quote from: RedKing on June 26, 2014, 10:29:31 pm
How on earth Kerbal do you get solid rocket stages big enough to get you up to orbit alt before switching to the liquid rockets?
Ok, that's one problem there already: Solid rocket boosters are horribly inefficient. They provide a lot of thrust in a short period of time so they're decent for getting off the ground, but getting all the way to orbit on nothing but them is going to be a pain unless you really really know all the quirks of the physics engine... Or use like 4 stages of ridiculous numbers of them I guess.

For getting started, here's what I suggest: (Begin: DRAGNAR'S GUIDE TO GETTING A ROCKET TO ORBIT IN LIKE THE SLOPPIEST WAY EVER.)
1. Start with a core of a capsule, some science instruments, and a small fuel tank+engine on the end of that. (The stumpy little one with 390 ISP in vacuum. Can't recall it's name, but there's not many engines to check!)
2. After a decoupler from what you built in step 1, add two of the tallest liquid fuel tanks you have, and stick the most powerful engine you have on the bottom of that.
3. At this point, you've got a tall thin rocket in two stages. Next, slap on some radial decouplers and solid rocket boosters around that second stage. You should be able to get some basic radial ones with just near-kerbin science, but they can probably be done without anyway. This stage won't reach orbit. Heck, an SRB with nothing attached won't reach orbit, so one stage of them can't do it no matter what you do.

That three stage rocket will almost certainly get to orbit. Heck I usually use a somewhat modified version of that basic setup (replacing the SRBs with an asparagus) for early mun/minmus science trips. But you'll need to do it right - you can't just burn straight up, then turn the rocket over once you've reached 70k. Instead, you slowly start tilting the rocket east at 10k - try for being at about a 45 degree angle once you've hit 40k. Once the map says your max height has reached 80k or so, stop burning til you're closer to that height - then point prograde and throttle up til you're in orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 02:10:54 am
Question: what's the asteroid version of lithobreaking?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 27, 2014, 02:30:54 am
Quote from: Japa on June 27, 2014, 02:10:54 am
Question: what's the asteroid version of lithobreaking?
Same old lithobraking, I think. Lithos means rock, and an asteroid is primarily rock, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 04:14:05 am
Oh, nevermind then. I thought it was something mun specific.

On an unrelated note, has anybody ever managed to successfully land an asteroid? What about with mods like FAR and Deadly Reentry?

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 27, 2014, 04:32:05 am
Well, you can't really "land" on them because the gravity is so weak, but you can use that Klaw to grab them. Also, they don't have athmosphere, so FAR and deadly reentry don't matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 27, 2014, 04:33:57 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 27, 2014, 04:32:05 am
Well, you can't really "land" on them because the gravity is so weak, but you can use that Klaw to grab them. Also, they don't have athmosphere, so FAR and deadly reentry don't matter.
FAR and Deadly Reentry do seem to change how things work in space, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 04:42:22 am
I said land an asteroid, not land on an asteroid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 27, 2014, 04:58:27 am
Oh, my bad. I'm pretty sure people did, searching "landing an asteroid KSP" on youtube brings plenty of videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 08:06:31 am
My first attempt resulted in breaking up in the atmosphere. I guess I need more boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 27, 2014, 08:41:26 am
It'd be neat if asteroids themselves were capable of breaking up in the atmosphere. It'd probably have to wait until stock reentry heat damage though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 09:35:50 am
I got an asteroid in a stable orbit around Kerbin. Now what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 27, 2014, 09:44:45 am
Place nine orange tank in a slightly lower orbit, attach rcs to asteroid, space bowling
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 27, 2014, 09:45:48 am
Quote from: Japa on June 27, 2014, 09:35:50 am
I got an asteroid in a stable orbit around Kerbin. Now what?

Um. Uh. ... Attach more things to it? Get science from it?

I have four in various orbits. Not sure what to do with them. I'm not certain I actually want to chain them together. Maybe....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 27, 2014, 09:49:09 am
Land it? A nice design I've seen is to use a mothership to bring 6 or so probes with nothing but a Klaw, RCS and 4-6 chutes. Then you just need a shove to bring it down. Bonus points for landing at the KSC, all the internet for putting it on top of the VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on June 27, 2014, 10:55:59 am
Page 666, watch out for the hell kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 27, 2014, 11:02:51 am
Page 200, no kracken will come to the land of... What is it, 80 posts per page or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 27, 2014, 12:36:08 pm
Okay, first probe into orbit! Doesn't do me a lot of good, but it feels good.

Now....to learn how the hell the maneuver point thing works in orbit map mode. That certainly made getting into orbit easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on June 27, 2014, 01:04:34 pm
Quote from: Japa on June 27, 2014, 04:42:22 am
I said land an asteroid, not land on an asteroid.

satans ass
page 666

japa confirm for devil
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 27, 2014, 01:14:13 pm
Ergh....is there not a way to pre-plan the flight path prior to launch? It's not easy to be clicking in and planning all these manuever burns while simultaneously trying to fly the ship.

Also, is there a rule of thumb of how far out of the atmosphere each stage should get you?

I built a probe with a small liquid tank and tiny engine, on top of a two-tank liquid rocket with big engine, surrounded by four big solid boosters. The solids don't even get me out of the first 1/4 of the atmosphere, and then I burn through the two-tank liquid rocket getting up to orbital height. Then I have scant fuel left to make my manuever burns to try and get on anything approaching a Mun-intercept path (which I should really be calculating out to determine the exact launch window, but like I started with....can't pre-plan the flight path).  >:(


This game is making me feel stupid. And this is from someone that actually understands orbital mechanics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 27, 2014, 01:25:32 pm
MechJeb.

You should probably be doing a gravity turn, if you're not. That will reduce delta-V by a crazy amount.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 27, 2014, 01:26:21 pm
Targeting the Mun should give you some more info, although I think it's best if you are already in space. Overall it's not going to hurt you to get into orbit and then plan a Mun burn sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on June 27, 2014, 02:04:46 pm
Quote from: RedKing on June 27, 2014, 01:14:13 pm
Ergh....is there not a way to pre-plan the flight path prior to launch? It's not easy to be clicking in and planning all these manuever burns while simultaneously trying to fly the ship.

Also, is there a rule of thumb of how far out of the atmosphere each stage should get you?

I built a probe with a small liquid tank and tiny engine, on top of a two-tank liquid rocket with big engine, surrounded by four big solid boosters. The solids don't even get me out of the first 1/4 of the atmosphere, and then I burn through the two-tank liquid rocket getting up to orbital height. Then I have scant fuel left to make my manuever burns to try and get on anything approaching a Mun-intercept path (which I should really be calculating out to determine the exact launch window, but like I started with....can't pre-plan the flight path).  >:(


This game is making me feel stupid. And this is from someone that actually understands orbital mechanics.
Out of curiosity, what's the highest speed you tend to reach in atmosphere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 27, 2014, 02:10:39 pm
I tend to build my rocket with four "main" stages. The first one is a set of solid boosters to increase altitude for a bit, then the second is the atmospheric liquid rockets, forgetting into orbit. The third stage is for transfers, orbital maneuvering, etc., while the fourth one usually remains with the payload and is used for minor adjustments to the orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 27, 2014, 02:42:51 pm
Yeah, I think I realized that terminal velocity was the root of my problems. No matter how many boosters I stick on, it's not going to make it go faster, just hotter. *doh*


Progress! Made my first Mun flyby with a probe. Close enough to do some science and beam back the results. And then it's off into uncharted space...

Now that I'm figuring out how to use the manuever points, it's going far better. I just need to redesign with more fuel for orbital manuevering and less wasted fuel getting out of atmosphere.



Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on June 27, 2014, 03:40:52 pm
Stock KSP doesn't really limit air speed very well. You can add as many solid boosters as you want if you have something (like a strut, girder, or nose cone) attached to them to dissipate the heat they produce.

When in the atmosphere try to keep your G force between 1 and two, towards the top of the green bar on the right side of the navball. This should keep the losses from drag and the losses from gravity about the same.

My liquid engine launch path for stock KSP is to go straight up until 8KM and VERY slowly turn to the east, you want to hit 45 degrees at 20KM and 5 degrees at 40KM. when you hit 5 degrees keep pointed there until your apoapsis is 80 to 100KM. Then coast to your apoapsis and circularize.

The Engineer  (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/18230) mod is great for showing your apoapsis, periapsis, and other orbital stats at a glance.

Mechjeb (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/12384) can automate most of your piloting if you want, it can't really handle wobbly rockets though.

Both of those mods will calculate your delta-V stats in the vehicle assembly building for you, so you know more or less how far your rocket can go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on June 27, 2014, 05:37:53 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:02:07 am
Can you play this at all without a joystick?
You can use a joystick?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: now hiring more optimistic astronauts
Post by: Graknorke on June 27, 2014, 05:45:31 pm
Quote from: stabbymcstabstab on June 27, 2014, 05:37:53 pm
Quote from: Deadmeat1471 on July 11, 2011, 06:02:07 am
Can you play this at all without a joystick?
You can use a joystick?
Who left the flux capacitor turned on?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 27, 2014, 08:14:17 pm
My joystick dident work well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 27, 2014, 09:21:56 pm
My twist on my joystick is loose in one direction. Not good for flight.

Also, warp drives are not OP. Vacuum power is. 1 hour burn to fix my willy nilly warping to Jool and that's just to nudge into aerocapture. Multiple experiments in this taxi including antimatter reactor and orbital building. 100 ton craft with 0.02 TWR. Officially screaming around Jool at over 12km/s and trying for 107km periapsis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 27, 2014, 09:29:16 pm
My ancient 11 year old Raider Advanced FX works fine.  If that works I'll bet anything works. 

And a joystick does indeed give much finer control, however it makes it difficult to use SAS, because at least in my case the SAS won't disengage and will fight your adjustments until I adjust the stick quite a ways, which is annoying for the fine adjustments you would want to use a joystick for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 27, 2014, 11:22:07 pm
I use an analog gamepad while flying my planes, but I find the keyboard much better for flying spaceships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 28, 2014, 04:03:21 am
My logitech attack 3 that I got from amvets 5~ years ago dosent like KSP.
It does like WarThunder...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 28, 2014, 09:37:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I made a Jetboatcarthing!

The sound it makes when you're going 20kmph in the water is /weird/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on June 28, 2014, 09:41:31 am
Oh my god, so much new stuff.
I haven't even gotten good with the last update and now I need to think about space rocks.
Fantastic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 28, 2014, 10:42:39 am
RedKing, just install MechJeb. It has a function that shows you where to burn to get into orbit with a gravity turn, which is great for learning how to do gravity turns by hand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 28, 2014, 11:00:44 am
HAH! Thanks ScanSat. At first I opened it up and wondered why an asteroid was showing up in my screen. I panned around and it didn't move. I scratched my head for a second and then remembered I had not captured an asteroid strike, so I guess the asteroid survived impact and ScanSat marked it on my map. RIP Kerbals around the small southern ocean. That ocean strike must have made for some killer waves.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 28, 2014, 12:41:03 pm
Quote from: Facekillz058 on June 28, 2014, 09:41:31 am
Oh my god, so much new stuff.
I haven't even gotten good with the last update and now I need to think about space rocks.
Fantastic.


wow just so you know, this is closing the end of the iteration so you are going to get even more stuff in a short term: http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/89806845949/devnote-tuesdays-the-back-in-experimentals-edition
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 28, 2014, 12:41:59 pm
Whoa whoa are we getting 64-bit KSP?
Niiiiice!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 28, 2014, 12:51:30 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on June 28, 2014, 12:41:59 pm
Whoa whoa are we getting 64-bit KSP?
Niiiiice!

Only useful if you use planet packs or numerous mods with textures that run up against the sub4gb RAM limit. It's not going to be stable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on June 28, 2014, 01:07:46 pm
the only thing inherently stable in ksp is the strut

and that's the way i like it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 28, 2014, 01:11:33 pm
64bit will be less stable for awhile. You also don't get it for OSX for even longer. I will likely wait for .25 before touching 64bit. I can run my current mod set with texture reduction just fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on June 28, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
Bugfix: Struts were too stable.  We fixed that so that when they touch the ground they will randomly attach and cause the celestial body to become part of the ship.  This usually results in a crash, in both the spacecraft and the game itself.  Sometimes the game waits to crash until after you try to recover 'Kerbin debris'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on June 28, 2014, 11:40:21 pm
Well, after much prior experimentation, today I built a massive cruiser for exploration of other planets.
Imgur album:
https://imgur.com/a/vpkTq
Sent it up in 4 parts (as well as an additional 2 RCS tug docking assistant vessels), then assembled in a circular orbit between 800 and 900 km, with an inclination of 5 degrees.

The trickiest part to get up was the core; it's highly asymmetric, has very high drag and weird lift forces due to the Interstellar heat radiators and such. Got that up successfully on my 3rd or so try with the Cruiser Core Launcher shown in the first image. It uses 2-stage asparagus with 8+12 3 meter engines. Of those engines, 4 are the more powerful stock engines, while the rest are even more powerful (but much lower ISP) mod engines. I put these in a setup I found to be previously very successful for unstable payloads: Payload on the bottom, fuel and engines up front (pod racer style); similar to my massive unstable payload experiments with the orbital hangar bays I posted about in an earlier post.

When the cruiser's bridge arrived, I moved the core launcher into a nearby orbit out of the way, docked that, and barely managed to strut it all together with KAS struts before some unstable wobbling feedback loops would have ripped it apart. After that were the two engine pods, each with 4 of the largest fuel tanks and 4 of the lower thrust, higher ISP 3m stock engines. The engine pods were pretty shoddy in terms of thinking through the docking process. They came with caps on their sole docking port which fed them power and had a bunch of sas for control. Turns out as soon as I popped those caps off for docking, they almost immediately ran out of power, floating aimlessly in space. Resulting in using quite a lot of monoprop to move the entire craft into place for docking, rather than just the engines. Brought in some RCS tug units to aid in the maneuvering and setting up the engine pods for docking; overall not a good time. If I ever need new engine modules, I'm just going to put some darned controls on them.

Woo, and after KAS'ing it up with struts, undocking the RCS tugs and properly distributing fuel, it can turn in all axis without snapping its back. And throttling up to 10% shows no indications of it spinning out of control (despite it being asymmetric, it was designed to be balanced) or breaking apart from the force. And time dilation is only just barely into the yellow, so it generally runs pretty well too.

Now I just need to bring up the absurdly large amount of fuel to fill it up (120k liquid fuel, 140k oxidizer) whip up a few companion craft for exploring, and fly on over to duna or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 29, 2014, 05:17:37 am
my rovering science lab, interstellar experiments included, for squeezing all the science out of duna biomes

Spoiler: scientist left for reference purpose (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: mun testing (click to show/hide)

*chutes untested at this point

update:

according to the alexmoon calculator, I have a nice window for duna in 20 days, and a return window after five year.

a wobbly mission is assembled:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

at top is the science lab, with some modification after the last round of testing:
 - roteable wheels, so the center of mass in flight is centered
 - more food to accomodate three years of rovering on the surface
 - more asas to control the attitude better on jump and while braking

at center is the transfer stage, with a very modest twr
it currently has 2.8k dv, which is the mission bare minimum, but the rover will not be brought back so there is margin
it also contains the antenna to keep communication to the control center and 3 years food for the interplanetary transfers


at the bottom the mini lander; it is empty (kerbals are in the lab and into the cupola)
it is remotely guided - hence the transfer stage must remain connected to the ksc
it has enough fuel to land and get back from duna, to ferry the kerbals from the rover lab back to the transfer stage
has a bit of food and fuel, will be discarded after siphoning the resources.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 05, 2014, 11:03:36 pm
Dark Multiplayer is looking pretty good. Some hitches when docking if all vessels are manned. Streamers from KSPTV have been streaming stuff, so it's in the archive to watch on twitch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eotyrannus on July 06, 2014, 04:53:44 am
Managed to get my first successful Mun mission recently. My first attempt accidentally flung me into the depths of space with no fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sonlirain on July 06, 2014, 05:31:52 am
I saw this several days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszJRsGzo9A
I'll never be a pro at KSP.
(Epilepsy warning)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 06, 2014, 05:36:10 am
you cannot save while rovering. so I quicksave every jump. it makes perfect sense.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 06, 2014, 02:08:52 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 06, 2014, 05:36:10 am
you cannot save while rovering. so I quicksave every jump. it makes perfect sense.
Wow. First I didn't know about being able to quicksave in the atmosphere (where it is a bad idea), and I didn't know about not being able to quicksave while rovering (where quicksaving -is- a good idea).
Yes, pulling a Dukes-of-Hazzard DOES seem to be the most reasonable time to quicksave.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 06, 2014, 02:48:02 pm
Or you could just come to a complete stop LoSboccacc.

Notice how it says "can't save while MOVING over terrain" or w/e the message is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 06, 2014, 06:51:48 pm
It's more dwarven this way.   Or is it more Kerbal, not sure, there is a surprising amount of overlap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 06, 2014, 09:55:00 pm
New version coming out semi-soon?  Any notable features?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 06, 2014, 10:02:31 pm
Corporations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 06, 2014, 10:03:37 pm
It's a race between DF and KSP, but they don't know it.

Yeah, .24 should be soon. Likely before the weekend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 06, 2014, 11:21:58 pm
Oh god, I'm not sure I can handle double-hype.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 06, 2014, 11:25:59 pm
Quote from: Japa on July 06, 2014, 11:21:58 pm
Oh god, I'm not sure I can handle double-hype.

Hype it up, Japa.
HYPE
IT
UP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 07, 2014, 06:23:22 am
WARNING: HYPE LEVELS CRITICAL
DEADLINE MELTDOWN IMMINENT
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 11, 2014, 07:13:00 pm
The 20th of this month may or may not be the release of 0.24. (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/apollo11_40th.html) 51% chance, probably. Kinda sorta hinted, but not, by staff. Sneak preview of 0.24 was shown on twitch just now. SOON

But Tarn still beat Squad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 11, 2014, 07:37:27 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 11, 2014, 07:13:00 pm
But Tarn still beat Squad.

Well, technically.
It did take two years for this one update, whereas if Squad releases any time soon it will have been a few months at worst since their last updoot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 11, 2014, 07:41:58 pm
Ah, but we are at .40, they are only at .24
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 11, 2014, 08:36:41 pm
Experimentals have been going and that phase is usually under 3 weeks in duration. SOON

It was nice finally seeing what .24 looks like.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 11, 2014, 11:52:10 pm
Na, no one reads the OP in this subforum. Besides, this one has all the neat spaceship images/tales from ages past.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 12, 2014, 12:18:45 am
Quote from: BigD145 on July 11, 2014, 08:36:41 pm
Experimentals have been going and that phase is usually under 3 weeks in duration. SOON

It was nice finally seeing what .24 looks like.
Linky?

Edit: found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5UiTqBCNQk preview preview :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 12, 2014, 02:12:08 am
argh the music make it stop!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 12, 2014, 09:31:22 am
New danny2462 video! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8epWitZKA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 14, 2014, 12:29:42 pm
0.24 has finally made it to people not involved in the experimental phase. July 20th is still the most likely date.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on July 14, 2014, 12:31:12 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on July 14, 2014, 12:20:48 pm
0.24 came out? Nobody told me!
>:I
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 15, 2014, 02:13:53 am
Quote from: alway on June 28, 2014, 11:40:21 pm
Well, after much prior experimentation, today I built a massive cruiser for exploration of other planets.
Imgur album:
https://imgur.com/a/vpkTq
Today, I got around to finishing fueling the above craft. I then accelerated it 2km/s dv, out of kerbin orbit, and down towards Moho. It held together beautifully, accelerating at around .5G to 1G at half throttle, without so much as a wobble. Seems I did a really good job balancing it's beautiful asymmetry. This burn took up approximately 50% of its fuel, dropping it from 120k to 60k. So I was a bit worried about that; but if necessary, I could individually dump some of the engines to drop weight.

Well, after the inclination change to match Moho, it became painfully obvious I wouldn't make it back, and would be lucky just to get a stable Moho orbit. And so, some emergency Rocket Surgery was in order. All but 2 of the engines were dumped, with the remaining 2 re-docked onto the place where the 1-to-4 connection unit for the engines had been. The end result is a sleeker craft which actually had the delta v to put itself into a Moho orbit.

Got a circular Moho orbit, with around 3500 fuel remaining. I'll need to do some calculations... but I suspect they won't be coming back. Moral of this story: dump more fuel tanks quicker, use less rockets if you never throttle to full anyway. Also that you apparently need around 6500 DV to get a circular Moho orbit from an 800km kerbin orbit. And that nuclear reactors are heavy, and if you don't have a really good reason to cart them all the way to Moho, don't do it.
Imgur album of the final crew + fuel vessel up to post-Rocket Surgery.
https://imgur.com/a/GELSM
Final shot of the post-surgery rocket in orbit of Moho
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(the main reason I'm willing to screw up like this is because I'll probably be tossing this save when .24 comes out anyway, as it's heavily modded, and already barely working as is)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 17, 2014, 04:15:20 pm
wickedplayer494 just gave an early warning for steam update for this game on Reddit.

That means that it'll update soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 04:28:54 pm
Ooh, cant wait.

Its out. Now. Get it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 17, 2014, 04:38:30 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 04:28:54 pm
Ooh, cant wait.

Its out. Now. Get it.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 04:41:38 pm
And the fun thing is I think it went out 10~ min ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 17, 2014, 04:45:31 pm
And the site's down.
That was fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 04:46:27 pm
Yah, it was going down even as I was editing the post to say that it was up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on July 17, 2014, 04:55:43 pm
IT. IS. OUT!
Goodbye sleep...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 17, 2014, 04:59:42 pm
There's a 64-bit executable now!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on July 17, 2014, 05:09:02 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 17, 2014, 04:59:42 pm
There's a 64-bit executable now!

Oh sweet merciful fuck.

Of course it comes when I don't have internet at home to download it. Time to drive to the nearest Timmies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 05:31:20 pm
We may be unable to get 64bit...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 17, 2014, 05:50:01 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 05:31:20 pm
We may be unable to get 64bit...

? I'm running on 64-bit right now
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 17, 2014, 05:52:45 pm
Anybody know if it's possible to get the 64 bit exe through steam?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 05:55:12 pm
No idea, but its stream, so dont expect it for a while.

As for my statement on 64bit, I keep getting error messages wen I try to download it, so...
But I was wrong. Downloading now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 17, 2014, 06:22:14 pm
Quote from: Greiger on July 17, 2014, 05:52:45 pm
Anybody know if it's possible to get the 64 bit exe through steam?

It came with the latest version. It's right there, KSP_x64.exe

Quote from: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 05:55:12 pm
No idea, but its stream, so dont expect it for a while.

Nope, came exactly on schedule without a hitch and no difficulties downloading and no DRM involved (you can play it without Steam by just double-clicking the .exe and you can copy+paste it to somewhere else to your heart's content) as usual for KSP on steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 06:48:41 pm
So... Do you have to have steam running to play it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 17, 2014, 06:56:00 pm
Wooo! I will have to attach 64 kerbals in capsules to a lifter and hit the ground at terminal velocity to celebrate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on July 17, 2014, 06:56:00 pm
Pretty awesome little subfeature of the contracts feature is that if you take a contract requiring a part you don't own it will give you access to an "Experimental" version of that part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 17, 2014, 07:40:17 pm
Quote from: Rilder on July 17, 2014, 06:56:00 pm
Pretty awesome little subfeature of the contracts feature is that if you take a contract requiring a part you don't own it will give you access to an "Experimental" version of that part.

Wow, I had no idea!  must try this now.

I've got this mission to rescue a kerbal from orbit, but I have no idea how to do it.  I think I need a claw?  The objective is to get him aboard a ship, but I cant activate him to bring him onboard and I cant grab him with another EVA kerbal.

Anyone done this yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on July 17, 2014, 07:50:21 pm
Just did a rescue mission myself, I was able to switch over to him fine and have him hop aboard an empty capsule without any problems, I think I just got within 2km and hit the switch craft button "]" and it hopped me over into command of him and just evaed him to my ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 17, 2014, 07:56:59 pm
ooh, I was trying to do it with the mouse -- will have to get back up there and try with the keyboard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 08:18:13 pm
*&@(*#!&%*#&% staging is a *#!^$*@^%$!)(.

I was nearly in orbit when it decided to detach my orbital insertion stage along with my second stage...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 17, 2014, 10:38:46 pm
For my first mission I decided to aim a little high and tackle the "get into space" contract. Unfortunately I slightly underestimated the capabilities of three sold rocket boosters which resulted in Jeb being launched into interplanetary space.

Oh well, I still completed the missions, and this just gives me a target for a future rescue mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on July 18, 2014, 01:03:32 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 17, 2014, 06:48:41 pm
So... Do you have to have steam running to play it?

Nope, KSP is completely DRM free.

You seem to be under the impression that steam injects extra DRM into games, which is not the case.
There are plenty of DRM free games on steam, it just so happens that most game publishers prefer to have DRM in their game...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 18, 2014, 02:40:11 am
I find the mission text hypnotically, fascinatingly close to comprehensible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 18, 2014, 05:56:24 am
OMG OMG OMG, NEW VERSION! MUST GET AND PROVE KSP IS SAFER THEN MALAYSIA AIRLINES! #toosoon, #lowblow


EDIT: er...guys? HOW DO I CONTRACTS? I'm broke and none are showing up :(
EDIT2: Ok nvm, turns out its that little rectangular thing I couldn't see behind the VAB...much harder to find then it probably should have been...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 18, 2014, 08:01:59 am
Space Center: Lucasart edition.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on July 18, 2014, 11:10:48 am
Heh, figured that one out instantly myself. But only because I already knew it was the Mission Control building, previously the only one you couldn't click on.

...This was discovered by slamming a ship into it after noticing this fact. Perfectly rational way to identify things right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 12:18:48 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This ship is horrible but it's testing so many different things, plus saving a Kerbal in space. Did I mention I have no solar panels? A little tweaking could accomplish the Mun science and landing mission IF I had solar panels. I have only unlocked up to all the 45 science parts with nothing beyond that. Most of the tests have to be staged at round the 20km mark at very specific speed ranges. Yay? I hope I got the staging right.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Small stack decoup at 20-24km and 200-600 m/s
Radial decoup at 11-18km and 50-360 m/s
Tiny engine at 17-21km and 500-700 m/s
Huge decoup in orbit 80-100km
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 12:20:05 pm
I try to setup useless areas with the "Test this here" things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 12:25:35 pm
I think I may rearrange the boosters to be radial and just drag them a ways if need be. I've found that drifting may be a necessity for many experimental parts. Planes are best for those sorts of things, but hey let's do it with rockets.

NOPE. Complete failure. Back to the drawing board. Can't even get to orbit with all that weird decoupling and underpowered engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 18, 2014, 12:58:59 pm
wow, some of these part-test missions barely pay for them selves.  And are completely made up for by the 30K payout one-star "return science from space" thing.

I might put a lab up there to keep doing zero-value experiments just to harvest the funds, so that I can keep financing all these other silly prototypes and crashes.

Also, I just discovered that it does not ALWAYS give you access to the experimental parts.  It wants me to test some solid booster that I have not unlocked yet, and also a seperatron that I have not unlocked.  I'm guessing that it only give you a prototype if it is available as a researchable item, but not if you cant even see it on the tech tree.

Totally false, I just couldn't remember the proper names of the various parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 18, 2014, 01:13:11 pm
"And this is why, if crashing while riding a emu, for the company heads, that is simply ok. Granted, our unacceptable discovery ended up raising more questions then answers, and this is why we're here"

Seriously, these mission texts are like a game unto themselves :P

Also, I've since learned to never ever accept the stupid part test missions unless they are while landed at Kerbin, because getting shit in the exact altitude range, with the speed they want is insane.

I would sooner attempt to get a phantom force drive off of Eve and back to Kerbin safely before doing any more of those useless things.

Additionally, I am disappoint there are no "launch a satellite" missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 01:22:44 pm
Darn. Failed at half of the missions first try. It's too much and the velocity windows are well outside optimal flight paths. Also could not save a kerbal due to lack of solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 18, 2014, 01:56:32 pm
Quote from: puke on July 18, 2014, 12:58:59 pm
wow, some of these part-test missions barely pay for them selves.  And are completely made up for by the 30K payout one-star "return science from space" thing.

I might put a lab up there to keep doing zero-value experiments just to harvest the funds, so that I can keep financing all these other silly prototypes and crashes.

Also, I just discovered that it does not ALWAYS give you access to the experimental parts.  It wants me to test some solid booster that I have not unlocked yet, and also a seperatron that I have not unlocked.  I'm guessing that it only give you a prototype if it is available as a researchable item, but not if you cant even see it on the tech tree.

That space station thing makes a lot of sense, from a practical direction. As for the part-test missions, the key is to combine them with other missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 01:58:27 pm
Woot. Finished the other three tasks and successfully rendezvoused with a kerbal in space. You're going home, Milfry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 18, 2014, 02:03:25 pm
some jackwagon wants me to test a BACC for barely  the cost of parts.  The kicker?  They want it done while on an escape trajectory out of Kerbin.  It's going to cost more to heft this thing into space than I'm going to earn.

But I'm compelled to do it anyway, because doing these stupid missions (and finding ways to fund them) is more fun than I've had with KSP since ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 02:04:30 pm
You need to mission with other missions. That's all there is to it. Or eat the costs for science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 18, 2014, 02:09:02 pm
Yeah, I try to do three at once on average.  sometimes I run a single mission flight, but usually I try to nail 2-4ish.

For this one, there are two other balistic trajectory tests that have nice synergies.  Unfortunately they all pay for garbage and I should barely break even.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 18, 2014, 02:10:20 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 02:04:30 pm
You need to mission with other missions. That's all there is to it. Or eat the costs for science.

or bring everything back
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 18, 2014, 02:55:23 pm
you cant land discarded stages, it requires parts to be flyable themselves, or within the 2km physics range.

even so, making every stage individually pilotable -- and switching to it to pilot it while the main craft is still trying to lift to orbit -- seems impractical even if you COULD stick a landing exactly back on the pad each time to get 100% funds.

A case for space planes, i guess.  But i suck at them, and it takes some advanced tech to make them viable even if youre good at them.

bottom line, going to have to spend some moneys.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 18, 2014, 03:04:14 pm
Yeah, yesterday I tried adding probe controls and parachutes to all of my discarded stages. It didn't work since they simply disappear as soon as I look at the map, I'm not sure why. But it saddens me, because I'm losing a lot of money in discarded staging...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 18, 2014, 03:06:44 pm
I wish there were satellite deployment missions and space station construction jobs.  Have not seen anything like that yet, and my reputation is  well in the blue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 03:52:46 pm
Yah, those arent in.

I hope that someday they will have you take cargo from kerbin orbit to, say, duna orbit.
Give a real reason to setup Hohmann transfer orbits and cyclers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2014, 04:01:51 pm
cyclers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 04:06:48 pm
Allright, basicly you have two ships in more-or-less fixed orbits that both go between bodies. Each is either going "up" or "down", and normally their going "up" or "down" is the shortest part of their orbit.

Because I am shit at explaining, have a "official" definition, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_cycler).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 18, 2014, 04:38:03 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/MqC49x1.png)
I feel like this is kinda unbalanced.

Also the missions are all uninteresting, but that was mentioned already.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 04:39:59 pm
Needs more modded in missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 05:02:46 pm
How do you have so much cash?

ANd yes, it needs alot more missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 18, 2014, 05:06:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 05:02:46 pm
How do you have so much cash?

I did lots of missions? 22 so far, and I didn't even need to do more than one mission per flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 05:16:59 pm
Well, you must never cockup your ships or over engineer then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on July 18, 2014, 05:33:49 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 18, 2014, 03:04:14 pm
Yeah, yesterday I tried adding probe controls and parachutes to all of my discarded stages. It didn't work since they simply disappear as soon as I look at the map, I'm not sure why. But it saddens me, because I'm losing a lot of money in discarded staging...
Scott Manley did a video explaining this - short version, if something is unloaded (ie, 2.5km away from the active ship) and under a certain altitude in the atmosphere, the game deletes it, regardless of whether or not it should have survived. There's already a mod to fix it though - check out DebRefund, it autorecovers stuff when it would otherwise be scuttled, based on parachutes active on it. (technically based on drag, but close enough)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 18, 2014, 05:36:27 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 05:16:59 pm
Well, you must never cockup your ships or over engineer then.
That, also I got over a million funds on my 22nd mission (it was to lug a Kerbodyne KS-25x4 into Kerbin orbit). Some of these missions pay waaay too much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 05:37:57 pm
Perhaps...


Gaah, now I want to learn to code so I can grab asteroid/kerbal spawning and make vehicles spawn in orbit with missions to be taken to another world...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 18, 2014, 05:57:15 pm
Quote from: greatorder on July 18, 2014, 05:54:26 pm
'Our scientists are bored. Can you please crash an asteroid into Jool?'

"We had been dealing with the issue of whether or not our scientists really were as bored as we were telling people they are."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 06:05:20 pm
Hey, its to see if we can lob things through it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 08:49:46 pm
Some of the larger lifter stages will run half a million and you throw those completely away. Costs ramp up quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 18, 2014, 08:51:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 08:49:46 pm
Some of the larger lifter stages will run half a million and you throw those completely away. Costs ramp up quickly.

Put parachutes on them, recover the debris later. Scott Manley's Reusable Space Program series should give you an idea on how to better save money in this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 18, 2014, 08:55:04 pm
I wish that the B9 pack were still being actively updated. Its spaceplane parts would be more useful now than ever, especially the cargo bays. It's pretty difficult to design a good satellite deploying spaceplane when the payload has to be strapped on top of it and you're using FAR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 18, 2014, 09:11:08 pm
They arent the only ones with cargobays, but they are one of the better ones, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 09:58:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 18, 2014, 08:51:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 08:49:46 pm
Some of the larger lifter stages will run half a million and you throw those completely away. Costs ramp up quickly.

Put parachutes on them, recover the debris later. Scott Manley's Reusable Space Program series should give you an idea on how to better save money in this kind of thing.

Debris = 0 money
Parachutes also cost money and weigh quite a bit. You're lifting dead weight.

Quote from: nogoodnames on July 18, 2014, 08:55:04 pm
I wish that the B9 pack were still being actively updated. Its spaceplane parts would be more useful now than ever, especially the cargo bays. It's pretty difficult to design a good satellite deploying spaceplane when the payload has to be strapped on top of it and you're using FAR.
Cargo Transportation Solutions
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 18, 2014, 10:00:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 09:58:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 18, 2014, 08:51:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 18, 2014, 08:49:46 pm
Some of the larger lifter stages will run half a million and you throw those completely away. Costs ramp up quickly.

Put parachutes on them, recover the debris later. Scott Manley's Reusable Space Program series should give you an idea on how to better save money in this kind of thing.

Debris = 0 money

put a probe core on it then :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 19, 2014, 07:21:00 am
Even then it can go away without a mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 19, 2014, 08:25:29 am
How the fuck are all you people doing so well at this. I could hardly scrape off enough science to unlock stuff in the previous versions and now I have to pay for all that too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 19, 2014, 08:32:50 am
I still cant really get the science, but the missions help. The test ones give science BTW.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 19, 2014, 08:35:50 am
I am just now needing to start doing science, and that is because I used up the last bits of it for unlocking nuclear engines.
I also have not had a problem with money.  The only time it was ever close was when I launched a rocket to go to Minimus that cost almost my entire budget, but managed to pay for itself six or seven times over with how much money it made.
Also, a tip- when the contract says you have to land, or get science from the land, it is sufficient, to touch down for one or two seconds and then take off while your rocket slowly tips over.  You don't need an actual stable landing site.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 19, 2014, 09:08:08 am
Quote from: dragnar on July 18, 2014, 05:33:49 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 18, 2014, 03:04:14 pm
Yeah, yesterday I tried adding probe controls and parachutes to all of my discarded stages. It didn't work since they simply disappear as soon as I look at the map, I'm not sure why. But it saddens me, because I'm losing a lot of money in discarded staging...
Scott Manley did a video explaining this - short version, if something is unloaded (ie, 2.5km away from the active ship) and under a certain altitude in the atmosphere, the game deletes it, regardless of whether or not it should have survived. There's already a mod to fix it though - check out DebRefund, it autorecovers stuff when it would otherwise be scuttled, based on parachutes active on it. (technically based on drag, but close enough)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 19, 2014, 09:37:48 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on July 19, 2014, 08:35:50 am
Also, a tip- when the contract says you have to land, or get science from the land, it is sufficient, to touch down for one or two seconds and then take off while your rocket slowly tips over.  You don't need an actual stable landing site.

True, but you can't recover on Kerbin unless you're stable. I've had a few tall rockets blow up in water after tipping over. You can get your contract finished but you may lose out on some more money.

I'm going to have to do something about my joystick and learn to land properly. The yaw twist is loose and giving extra dead space doesn't help much. I do not really look forward to reusable SSTO's. They are very boring to fly to space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 19, 2014, 09:40:58 am
Also, I can never seem to land on the Mun properly. I always end up with too much horizontal velocity so the lander tips over and breaks something that prevents me from getting back, if I even had enough fuel to get back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MorleyDev on July 19, 2014, 10:10:32 am
You want to burn away your horizontal as you fall so that by the time you get to the bottom your going more or less straight. Whilst it's more efficient to burn at an angle to lose the velocity in an arc, you can just suicide your horizontal and fall if you have the delta-v to spare.

The problem I have is with any kind of rendezvous. Cannot get two space craft to deliberately meet...Makes Apollo-style missions tricky :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 19, 2014, 10:26:02 am
Maneuver nodes are your friend and active and target vehicles should be close to circular orbits about 20-100km inside/outside of each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on July 19, 2014, 10:45:59 am
Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2014, 10:19:12 am
Oh lord, rendezvous...

Despite following all the guides on it, I can't. I just cannot rendezvous at all. The closest I got was thirty km, which had the effect of them whizzing past each other.
if you can get that close maybe try this:
once you are relatively close to your target set it as target if you havent already.
then switch the speed display so it shows your speed relative to your target. (no idea if it switches to that by default when you target something or not... if not click on the speed numbers till you have the right one.)
then forget that you are in space and in orbits and all. its just you and your speed indicator.
so simply stare at your speed indicator and compass and turn around so you can "break" till the speed meter shows around 0 (just get it as low as possible, it will probably be kind of hard under speed 50).
then see where your target actually is and imagine you both are standing still. (as your speed relative to your target is kind of around 0) then how to get to it? well turn towards it and speed up a bit.
and once you are close break to 0 again and then start docking and RCS-ing around to dock.

well totally inefficient with the "break to 0" but maybe it helps a bit the first few tries to learn how to approach another thing. maybe the point of "not thinking about orbits and space and breaking to 0 speed" helps a bit. (that breaking to 0 basically gets your orbit "similar" to your targets orbit)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 19, 2014, 10:49:26 am
I used to have a problem with that.  I can't remember what I did differently back then that caused it, but I don't have a problem any more with it.  Normally I try to kill all horizontal velocity and tart dropping straight down at least 2500 meters up.  Then I jut make sure that if the ground suddenly comes up that I have a low enough speed that I can decelerate quickly enough to avoid a sudden case of lithobraking, which usually mean below 100 m/s.  My biggest problem is the ground not being flat, and my rocket landing, but since it takes an extra moment or two for one or two of the legs to touch down, the whole thing will start to tip over lowly.  Most of the time taking off, getting up about 1000 meters or so, and then approaching again works.  Putting extra fuel tanks around the lander and then putting legs on thoe helps a lot with the tipping problem, but sometimes rocket design doesn't permit that.

Right now my next objective is going to be getting up a chain of stations.  I plan on getting one refueling and science station up over the Mun, Kerbin, and Minmus.  Once that is done I can get a shuttle that can ferry science and Kerbals around, and hopefuly get an SSTO that can get to orbit and back to the space center.  Chances are that it won't have enough fuel to dock at a station by itself, but i should be able to get a shuttle that can go to it and transfer supplies and kerbals to it.  Doing so should ensure that I won't run out of money, as the only expenses involved after setting it up will be sending up refueling stations (Normally just the big orange tank with some solar panels and docking ports attached).

I tried playing with my flightstick, but I'm still more comfortable with my keyboard.  Even with spaceplanes you don't need that fine of a level of control.  The only really use I have for my Flight stick is mapping my stage activation button to the fire button, which has a cover that I can flip on and off. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 19, 2014, 10:51:07 am
Quote from: MorleyDev on July 19, 2014, 10:10:32 am
You want to burn away your horizontal as you fall so that by the time you get to the bottom your going more or less straight. Whilst it's more efficient to burn at an angle to lose the velocity in an arc, you can just suicide your horizontal and fall if you have the delta-v to spare.
That's always what I did, but the moment I reached the surface I would find myself still moving horizontally with a few m/s and usually on the side of a crater, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 19, 2014, 10:56:50 am
Quote from: miauw62 on July 19, 2014, 10:51:07 am
Quote from: MorleyDev on July 19, 2014, 10:10:32 am
You want to burn away your horizontal as you fall so that by the time you get to the bottom your going more or less straight. Whilst it's more efficient to burn at an angle to lose the velocity in an arc, you can just suicide your horizontal and fall if you have the delta-v to spare.
That's always what I did, but the moment I reached the surface I would find myself still moving horizontally with a few m/s and usually on the side of a crater, too.
Did you check that you were killing velocity relative to the surface rather than to the orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 19, 2014, 11:04:53 am
Quote from: miauw62 on July 19, 2014, 09:40:58 am
Also, I can never seem to land on the Mun properly. I always end up with too much horizontal velocity so the lander tips over and breaks something that prevents me from getting back, if I even had enough fuel to get back.
Here's the trick: Don't stop falling. It's better to land with a bit of vertical speed than to brake too hard and end up floating two metres off the ground while moving horizontally. Also you should always make sure your retrograde marker points straight up while landing, and you should constantly adjust it while decelerating (not just once at the end). A tweak in time saves nine, or however you want to memorize it. Also if you're attempting a vertical landing by braking mid-orbit, try lowering the orbit really low first, so you don't have to fall that much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on July 19, 2014, 11:34:17 am
Another surprisingly common mistake is to not turn on the precision controls with caps lock I believe it is?...makes it a bit easier when it comes to making the small changes you need to make under the 50 meter range without over adjusting
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 19, 2014, 07:41:33 pm
Huh... some of these missions are like cheaty-level easy to complete repeatedly. Put a space hotel in orbit of kerbin at 90-120km orbit; suddenly all rescues are just a few orbits and a tiny adjustment away. Then have them do crew reports and send those to get the 'research from space around kerbin' missions done. When you start going to the moons, just use a small unmanned craft which can repeatedly send temperature data and take off the 5 meters off the ground to get 'space science' to complete those ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on July 19, 2014, 07:52:17 pm
Yeah being the first iteration there is obviously has its issues...needs more variety and guards against the cheaty level of easy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on July 19, 2014, 08:05:20 pm
Balance seems a bit wonky too. I got over 40,000 funds just for hauling a landing gear up into orbit and testing it, but quite a bit less for contracts that I would consider more difficult, like getting a large SRB to activate midflight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 19, 2014, 09:28:10 pm
Quote from: MorleyDev on July 19, 2014, 10:10:32 am
You want to burn away your horizontal as you fall so that by the time you get to the bottom your going more or less straight. Whilst it's more efficient to burn at an angle to lose the velocity in an arc, you can just suicide your horizontal and fall if you have the delta-v to spare.

The problem I have is with any kind of rendezvous. Cannot get two space craft to deliberately meet...Makes Apollo-style missions tricky :)

Oh, man, I finally figgured this out.  I was having the HARDEST time with it, but could never get it right.  With the new "rescue the kerbal" missions, i finally knuckled down and got it sorted out.

I'm going to guess that your problem is similar to mine.  Something like this:

- You can match orbital plane by adjusting the purple triangles on the maneuver nodes - normal and anti-normal.  no problem
- you can match orbit shape by burning at periapsis and apoapsis.  no problem
- you can get roughly close to another orbital object by making your orbit larger (to slow down) or tighter (to speed up).  no big problem.

but the PROBLEM comes in closing the last few km or few tens of km.  and the solution to this is to use the nav-ball.

When the nav-ball is set to your target (pick a target, and click on the nav-ball until it gives you the target's velocity) you can:

1 - burn at the retrograde indicator to make your velocity relative to the target zero.  This will effectively match orbits exactly with the target.
2 - burn at the "towards target" indicator to close distance with the target
3 - go to step 1 and zero out velocity again.  repeat as you close.  maybe use RCS instead of engines.

I struggled with this for so long, and finally figuring out how the "target" navball worked was a life saver.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 19, 2014, 09:34:56 pm
Quote from: alway on July 19, 2014, 07:41:33 pm
When you start going to the moons, just use a small unmanned craft which can repeatedly send temperature data and take off the 5 meters off the ground to get 'space science' to complete those ones.

wait, you can get temperature data from space?  I thought thermometers didnt work in vacuum?

I dont feel like permanent satellites are an exploit, as I would prefer the game to incent you to create an ACTUAL satellite network like with that communications mod...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 19, 2014, 09:58:36 pm
Quote from: puke on July 19, 2014, 09:34:56 pm
Quote from: alway on July 19, 2014, 07:41:33 pm
When you start going to the moons, just use a small unmanned craft which can repeatedly send temperature data and take off the 5 meters off the ground to get 'space science' to complete those ones.

wait, you can get temperature data from space?  I thought thermometers didnt work in vacuum?

I dont feel like permanent satellites are an exploit, as I would prefer the game to incent you to create an ACTUAL satellite network like with that communications mod...
'Near' space you can, as has always been the case.

As for permanent satellites, yeah, definitely. However, it would be better if it at least required an orbit change or such to retrieve them, such that you would be incentivized to create some intermediary small kerbal-retrieval craft. If the rescue missions had altitude ranges and varying amounts of eccentricity, for example, instead of always being around 110km circular orbits (granted, that may be in and I haven't seen it yet, so who knows).

The other interesting thing about the contracts is how it all effects science. You barely seem to get any from the instruments now, but the 'test X' missions give a lot of it, making up most of your science budget.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 19, 2014, 10:30:28 pm
Ah, nothing like getting the nuclear engine from a test mission and using it to land on the Mun. The test mission was even in Munar orbit, so overall I managed to get over a million dollars and 600 science from the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 19, 2014, 10:49:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
7138 dV in atmosphere and 8720 dV in vacuum
Want a fairly simple kinda early tech ship for the Mun? It is tall and has asparagus staging at the bottom above the boosters. It should not only be able to land on the Mun but possibly also hop at least once to another biome. For sure it can do Minmus 2x. $58k craft. It is not great at horizontal velocity while landing. No RCS. Hmm. The new Vernor engine is tempting...

I'm going to try using this to save a Kerbal in orbit around Kerbin THEN take him to the Mun. Sorry dude. You have work to do today. This should unlock a bunch of contracts as this is the first trip to the Mun in this save.

Good job, Corgel. Success. And success again. That's two landings, one of the big equatorial craters and the midlands. He has plenty of dV to get home. I think I'll give him a break and not try to hop once more, which I have the dV for, but not the landing engines for. I'm not for balancing on a single rocket. Not one this tall. Legs next time, perhaps.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on July 20, 2014, 02:53:49 am
Quote from: dennislp3 on July 19, 2014, 11:34:17 am
Another surprisingly common mistake is to not turn on the precision controls with caps lock I believe it is?...makes it a bit easier when it comes to making the small changes you need to make under the 50 meter range without over adjusting
...There are precision controls?

There are... Precision... Controls...

...

/me has flipped a table.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 20, 2014, 03:10:46 am
I just found this cool spaceplane parts mod. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80796-0-24-Spaceplane-Plus-1-3) It's similar to B9 but has an aesthetic a bit closer to the stock parts. Unfortunately it only has MK2 size fuselages.

Using it, and with very little effort, I was able to construct an SSTO capable of carrying several passengers and a small satellite into orbit on the first try. I think it will satisfy my spaceplane needs quite nicely.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 20, 2014, 04:24:00 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 20, 2014, 03:10:46 am
I just found this cool spaceplane parts mod. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80796-0-24-Spaceplane-Plus-1-3) It's similar to B9 but has an aesthetic a bit closer to the stock parts. Unfortunately it only has MK2 size fuselages.

Using it, and with very little effort, I was able to construct an SSTO capable of carrying several passengers and a small satellite into orbit on the first try. I think it will satisfy my spaceplane needs quite nicely.

also I suggest this, for the heavy landing gear:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76668-0-23-5-Kerbal-Aircraft-Expansion-(KAX)-v2-2-1-Now-With-100-More-Helicopters
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kaje on July 20, 2014, 06:04:56 am
Can anyone tell me an easy way of creating a 'space station' (or satellite) and establishing an orbit?

No matter what I try for the latter, I always end up overshooting by quite some way and then finding it impossible to get it sorted; before getting bored and just re-entering the atmosphere and splashing down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on July 20, 2014, 06:19:09 am
Send the space station up in parts. Make sure the first part has a docking hub on it so you can attatch other fuel tanks or whatever you may want, and that those parts have docking ports for ships.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 20, 2014, 09:23:22 am
Quote from: Kaje on July 20, 2014, 06:04:56 am
Can anyone tell me an easy way of creating a 'space station' (or satellite) and establishing an orbit?

No matter what I try for the latter, I always end up overshooting by quite some way and then finding it impossible to get it sorted; before getting bored and just re-entering the atmosphere and splashing down.

Most basic way to get things to orbit: Fire straight up until you reach about 10 to 20 thousand meters, this should put your apoapsis somewhere around 70000, this is the minimum for orbiting. Once you hit a good apoapsis, keep turning right until your navball is on the line in between the blue and orange parts. Then fire engines until orbiting.

Just start with that and refine as you get better at it, and you should be good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 20, 2014, 09:48:21 am
Quote from: Kaje on July 20, 2014, 06:04:56 am
Can anyone tell me an easy way of creating a 'space station' (or satellite) and establishing an orbit?

Install MechJeb and let it fly your craft to orbit. If it can't, your build is probably bad or too fiddly. If it can, I hope you payed attention to how it did it. Now you have a part that at worst gives you the dV of your craft as you build it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 10:06:30 am
I was under the impression that MechJeb wasn't actually that good at launches and a person being careful on the controls could do better. I remember someone saying something to that effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 20, 2014, 10:07:22 am
mechjeb can't do jet-assisted

jet-assisted should be more common now that people will have to care about money

unless jets are fixed

i have not yet played new things

Quote from: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 10:06:30 am
I was under the impression that MechJeb wasn't actually that good at launches and a person being careful on the controls could do better. I remember someone saying something to that effect.

well yeah, mechjeb is lit a list of scripts, while an experienced human can do better in most situations
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kaje on July 20, 2014, 10:32:41 am
Thanks guys, will give MechJeb a go and also try BFEL's suggested tactic for a manual attempt!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 20, 2014, 10:51:00 am
Quote from: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 10:06:30 am
I was under the impression that MechJeb wasn't actually that good at launches and a person being careful on the controls could do better. I remember someone saying something to that effect.

It's better than a new or inexperienced player. It's quite wasteful at docking. It's not patient enough at rendezvous. It's perfectly fine for transits between bodies.

Minmus is truly easy mode for science. I just got 7 of the 9 biomes
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
with the craft last page and doing the same thing; rescuing orbiting kerbal to do the footwork. I could have gotten 8 if I had not missed the lesser flats. Possibly all 9 if I had put tiny legs on and ditched the four side engine/tanks when needed. Just come in polar and work your way down to the nearest biome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:08:11 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 20, 2014, 09:23:22 am
Quote from: Kaje on July 20, 2014, 06:04:56 am
Can anyone tell me an easy way of creating a 'space station' (or satellite) and establishing an orbit?

No matter what I try for the latter, I always end up overshooting by quite some way and then finding it impossible to get it sorted; before getting bored and just re-entering the atmosphere and splashing down.

Most basic way to get things to orbit: Fire straight up until you reach about 10 to 20 thousand meters, this should put your apoapsis somewhere around 70000, this is the minimum for orbiting. Once you hit a good apoapsis, keep turning right until your navball is on the line in between the blue and orange parts. Then fire engines until orbiting.

Just start with that and refine as you get better at it, and you should be good.

That may be the most basic, but it's also the hardest.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 20, 2014, 05:32:46 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:08:11 pm
That may be the most basic, but it's also the hardest.

As for getting to orbit, there are a couple of things that were "ah-ha" moments for me.  One, is that the directions on the wiki for a gravity turn are all cocked up.

Well, not that the instructions are bad per-say, but that they dont match your nav-ball unless you rotate your cockpit during vehicle construction.

It says to "press D" to turn East.  I dont know what game everyone else is playing, but every rocket I ever launch (unless I change the default orientation) is oriented with the red "north" line pointing towards the camera and East being to the Left so that pressing "D" will angle you Westward.

So, I guess if you assume that the sun rises in the "east", then the problem is that the default compass is backwards and that you want to turn East over the ocean and towards the sunrise, but it will say West on the navball if you installed your capsule the default way.

And if you turn the wrong way (over land) then you have to overcome the rotation of the planet before getting into orbit.  Which isnt really that big of a deal.

...Okay, here is the bigger deal:  Less is More.  The mantra of KSP is always something like "moar boosters moar thrust moar boom!" but this isnt actually that great.  I was always trying to get into orbit with more boosters, bigger engines, more thrust, bigger pancakes...

Really, career mode is the best thing that happened to me.  It forced me to design rockets with simple entery level parts, and I finally got into orbit.  As I unlocked more parts with science, my rockets started getting worse and I eventually had to go back to basics and strip them down again.

So, if there is one takeaway here its this:  Less is more.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:34:56 pm
I'm not sure how your rockets are oriented, but yeah, 090 is east, which is "D" for default rocket orientation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 20, 2014, 05:42:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:34:56 pm
I'm not sure how your rockets are oriented, but yeah, 090 is east, which is "D" for default rocket orientation.

It is.. D is towards the Sunrise and over the ocean and all that.  But there is clearly an orange line labled N that by default points SOUTH, so if you're trying to find East on the Navball, you'll be looking at 270 degrees and end up headed West.

And if you rotate your capsule at construction so that N points North (which you can do, compasses are weirdly relative to construction and not to the planet) pressing D will still send you the same way (over the ocean), but now it will be towards the 270 line and not the 90 line.

so WASD seem to always be oriented to N,W,S,E, but your navball will say different things and defaults to being completely inverted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 08:29:48 pm
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 05:42:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:34:56 pm
I'm not sure how your rockets are oriented, but yeah, 090 is east, which is "D" for default rocket orientation.

It is.. D is towards the Sunrise and over the ocean and all that.  But there is clearly an orange line labled N that by default points SOUTH, so if you're trying to find East on the Navball, you'll be looking at 270 degrees and end up headed West.

And if you rotate your capsule at construction so that N points North (which you can do, compasses are weirdly relative to construction and not to the planet) pressing D will still send you the same way (over the ocean), but now it will be towards the 270 line and not the 90 line.

so WASD seem to always be oriented to N,W,S,E, but your navball will say different things and defaults to being completely inverted.
No, something is way wrong with either your install or your comprehension of the navball. I'm leaning towards the latter because that would be a weirdly specific bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: gomez on July 20, 2014, 08:34:32 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 08:29:48 pm
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 05:42:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:34:56 pm
I'm not sure how your rockets are oriented, but yeah, 090 is east, which is "D" for default rocket orientation.

It is.. D is towards the Sunrise and over the ocean and all that.  But there is clearly an orange line labled N that by default points SOUTH, so if you're trying to find East on the Navball, you'll be looking at 270 degrees and end up headed West.

And if you rotate your capsule at construction so that N points North (which you can do, compasses are weirdly relative to construction and not to the planet) pressing D will still send you the same way (over the ocean), but now it will be towards the 270 line and not the 90 line.

so WASD seem to always be oriented to N,W,S,E, but your navball will say different things and defaults to being completely inverted.
No, something is way wrong with either your install or your comprehension of the navball. I'm leaning towards the latter because that would be a weirdly specific bug.

I think the Navball has pitch angle numbers on there as well, that may be the source of his confusion, because as everyone else says the navball definetly works as intended.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 20, 2014, 08:38:58 pm
Yeah, unless he's somehow got his spacecraft's controlling part flipped around backwards or something.

But anyway, navball is pretty much the closest thing KSP has to a deity. Learn how it works and everything else will just work itself out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 08:43:08 pm
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 05:42:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 05:34:56 pm
I'm not sure how your rockets are oriented, but yeah, 090 is east, which is "D" for default rocket orientation.

It is.. D is towards the Sunrise and over the ocean and all that.  But there is clearly an orange line labled N that by default points SOUTH, so if you're trying to find East on the Navball, you'll be looking at 270 degrees and end up headed West.

And if you rotate your capsule at construction so that N points North (which you can do, compasses are weirdly relative to construction and not to the planet) pressing D will still send you the same way (over the ocean), but now it will be towards the 270 line and not the 90 line.

so WASD seem to always be oriented to N,W,S,E, but your navball will say different things and defaults to being completely inverted.

If you hold W, you'll go north on the navball, which is straight forward from the default viewpoint. D goes east, which is straight to the right and 090. So... what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 20, 2014, 08:49:36 pm
If it is not enjoyed, turn the rocket 90 degrees to the left in the VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 20, 2014, 09:35:32 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 08:29:48 pm
No, something is way wrong with either your install or your comprehension of the navball. I'm leaning towards the latter because that would be a weirdly specific bug.

Clearly I'm comprehending something wrong, but try this out and see what you think:

Go into the VAB and select a MkI Command Pod.  Move it out to the launch pad with nothing under it, so it just sits there.

Notice that your view is looking north, with the flagpole just to the left  of center, and the ocean off to the right.

Notice how pressing D tips the pod to the right, to the east.  right along the 90 line of the navball.

Notice how the Navball has a bright orange line labled N which points towards you.  Notice how the 90 line is to the right of the N line.  this is WEST on the navball.  Relative to the line labled N, the 90 mark is due West.

if that orange line was pointing UP (like on a traditional compass) east would be right and West would be left and South would be down.  But since the N line is pointing DOWN, East is to the LEFT.

But clearly, pressing D tips you towards the ocean, towards the East.  Which is inverted from what the navball says.

Now, go back to the VAB and take the command pod and rotate it 180 degrees so that is facing the other way by picking it up and pressing Q twice.  Take the reoriented pod back to the pad.

Now the orange line conveniently points up, which is aligned with your view looking north.  Pressing D tips you to the 270 line, which is clearly East on the ball.  However, your nose tips to the Left of the screen, away from the water, which is West.

Now that you know what I'm looking at, please tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 20, 2014, 09:42:09 pm
Your capsule is upside-down by facing upwards. Typical left/right designations are flipped, since you're looking at N/W/S/E from below, rather than the usual above (as you would when looking at a map). Thus, east is right. Basically, it's what would happen if you took a transparent map and flipped it upside down, to view it from the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 20, 2014, 09:45:20 pm
Remember that the navball is oriented to the pilot's (or probe/docking ring's) perspective, not the camera's.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: gomez on July 20, 2014, 09:51:23 pm
I see other people beat me to it whilst I was researching this but the Navball is upside down because your Kerbal is lying on his back on the launch pad , however the navball has the numbers in the correct place.

This link [url][ http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82655-Navball-question /url] clarifies further.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 09:52:55 pm
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 09:35:32 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 20, 2014, 08:29:48 pm
No, something is way wrong with either your install or your comprehension of the navball. I'm leaning towards the latter because that would be a weirdly specific bug.

Clearly I'm comprehending something wrong, but try this out and see what you think:

Go into the VAB and select a MkI Command Pod.  Move it out to the launch pad with nothing under it, so it just sits there.

Notice that your view is looking north, with the flagpole just to the left  of center, and the ocean off to the right.

Notice how pressing D tips the pod to the right, to the east.  right along the 90 line of the navball.

Notice how the Navball has a bright orange line labled N which points towards you.  Notice how the 90 line is to the right of the N line.  this is WEST on the navball.  Relative to the line labled N, the 90 mark is due West.

if that orange line was pointing UP (like on a traditional compass) east would be right and West would be left and South would be down.  But since the N line is pointing DOWN, East is to the LEFT.

But clearly, pressing D tips you towards the ocean, towards the East.  Which is inverted from what the navball says.

Now, go back to the VAB and take the command pod and rotate it 180 degrees so that is facing the other way by picking it up and pressing Q twice.  Take the reoriented pod back to the pad.

Now the orange line conveniently points up, which is aligned with your view looking north.  Pressing D tips you to the 270 line, which is clearly East on the ball.  However, your nose tips to the Left of the screen, away from the water, which is West.

Now that you know what I'm looking at, please tell me how I'm doing it wrong.

Try pressing W and see which direction the ship goes and which direction the navball goes.

Now that you know what I'm looking at, please tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 20, 2014, 09:57:26 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 20, 2014, 10:07:22 am
mechjeb can't do jet-assisted
Mechjeb can do jet assists, but you have to manually stage it and set up the the ascent path different from normal rockets. Here's my ascent guidance that I just tested with this design (http://imgur.com/EA5vNul.png).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Designs with less thrust/weight ratio will need to have it finish the turn later for better fuel economy, but overall the path works pretty well.

Mechjeb can also do standard rocket ascents more efficiently if you set it up as
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 20, 2014, 09:58:39 pm
That is how navballs work. Got an issue? Take it up with the guys who designed them.But good luck getting that time machine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 10:00:51 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 20, 2014, 09:58:39 pm
That is how navballs work. Got an issue? Take it up with the guys who designed them.But good luck getting that time machine.

It's not even wrong, the entire argument seems to rely on never having pressed the "W" key.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 20, 2014, 10:02:54 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 09:52:55 pm

Try pressing W and see which direction the ship goes and which direction the navball goes.

Now that you know what I'm looking at, please tell me how I'm doing it wrong.
[/quote]

What the hell is wrong with you?  I ask for help and give a detailed description of what I'm doing wrong, and you're a fucking dick about it.

Let me show you something:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore Put me on this list.  Please.

Alway (and Nogoodnames and Gomez):  That was a perfectly clear explanation, thank you SO much.  I was finding the cardinal directions on the navball so frustrating that I was basically ignoring them and using visual cues.  It totally makes sense now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2014, 10:05:01 pm
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 10:02:54 pm
What the hell is wrong with you?  I ask for help and give a detailed description of what I'm doing wrong, and you're a fucking dick about it.

Let me show you something:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore Put me on this list.  Please.

Alway (and Nogoodnames and Gomez):  That was a perfectly clear explanation, thank you SO much.  I was finding the cardinal directions on the navball so frustrating that I was basically ignoring them and using visual cues.  It totally makes sense now.

I don't like being ignored (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg5494927#msg5494927).

I also don't much like when advice is given that relies on false or misunderstood info (saying that "the directions on the wiki for a gravity turn are all cocked up" suggests that you shouldn't follow them...), but I was willing to ignore that over what's a clear misunderstanding.

EDIT: Note that I'm describing what the hell is wrong with me, not trying to make excuses. You hit a couple of my rage buttons that I need to put (more) effort into taking care of.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kaje on July 21, 2014, 03:37:28 am
Thanks for suggesting MechJeb! It works like a charm, and has taken a lot of the frustration out of setting up orbits! I now have a satellite in orbit around Kerbin, I've landed on the Mun and planted a flag, and I've even started work on a space station! It's really opened up the game for me, and I'm enjoying it way more than I used to!

As for it being 'cheating', I'm just pretending that advances in automated flight have worked wonders - or that there's a computer boffin on the ground doing all the controlling for me...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:43:09 am
...Rockets haven't been manually piloted in, like, forever. Not having an autopilot is unrealistic, you could say, but then so is the size of the system, the aerodynamics...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kaje on July 21, 2014, 03:46:53 am
That makes me feel much better, Putnam!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2014, 03:54:25 am
Quote from: puke on July 20, 2014, 10:02:54 pm
What the hell is wrong with you?  I ask for help and give a detailed description of what I'm doing wrong, and you're a fucking dick about it.
To be entirely fair, tone aside, he did give a proper hint. You were assuming compass directions were wrong, but you didn't think to tip over forward and see what happens. If you did, you'd have probably come to the same realization as you have now, after it's been explained.

You could have come to the same realization much quicker if you used a Mk1 Cockpit instead. And even quicker if you used the IVA view from it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 07:58:41 am
After much munar testing, Dudrigh has confirmed his suspicion that it is impossible to hate anything so much as I HATE THIS GODDAMN CRATER!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 08:16:28 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 07:58:41 am
After much munar testing, Dudrigh has confirmed his suspicion that it is impossible to hate anything so much as I HATE THIS GODDAMN CRATER!
The Kerbal science budget is being very well spent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2014, 10:40:02 am
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:43:09 am
...Rockets haven't been manually piloted in, like, forever. Not having an autopilot is unrealistic, you could say, but then so is the size of the system, the aerodynamics...
People argue that it's cheaty because it takes away player involvement, not that it makes things unrealistic.

Personally, I don't care much but I play without because I can rarely be bothered to install it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 10:49:33 am
Thing is, KSP exists in a strange niche of gameplay.  It's incredibly fun and open, and easily accessible.  I mean, you construct an entire rocket just by putting on explosives and duct tape, essentially, and it actually works.  The simplicity is amazing.

At the same time, orbital mechanics and things are WAY beyond a lot of people.  There's not many other games with such a steep demand of skill that simply bar out whole groups of people.  Using assistance to play is the best thing you can do, when the alternative is to not play at all.  At least you ARE playing and enjoying it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 21, 2014, 11:16:43 am
I think using MechJeb is perfectly acceptable. I personally don't use it, because it bugs the heck out of me not to be in control. That and I find watching the computer do everything for me kinda boring.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 21, 2014, 11:26:33 am
MechJeb's dV calculator seems to be less fiddly than Engineer's. I also like to have my ship on autopilot when I answer the door or use the bathroom. I don't want to pause.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 12:00:00 pm
Not to mention, anything involving ion drives.  Autopilot makes SO MUCH sense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2014, 12:52:55 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 10:49:33 am
At the same time, orbital mechanics and things are WAY beyond a lot of people.
Maybe, but not at the basic level that you need to do things in KSP. Stuff like "Burn prograde/retrograde to raise/lower your orbit" is easy enough to get.
The complicated things like calculating perfect transfer orbits is of course way beyond that, but you don't actually need to know that to play KSP. If you want you can just throw more Δv at the problem and do it less efficiently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 01:09:54 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2014, 03:54:25 am
To be entirely fair, tone aside

You can go ahead and put me on your ignore list, too.  You'll feel better without the temptation to respond to things like this.

Here is the link, for your convenience:    http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore

Really, no one tore into that joker a few pages back when he was telling people to put parachutes and probe cores on discarded stages to recover funds.  People just let him give false advice about things he hadnt actually tested, because it isnt worth it to talk sense into someone like that. 

But when I ask for help with something that I've had problems with since the first demo of KSP back in 2011 (yes, I have never used the W key in those years) you feel the need to defend him for mouthing off.  So it looks like you'll be a lot happier if you dont have to read my posts.

Don't worry, you wont miss much.  they're not very good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2014, 01:19:19 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 01:09:54 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 21, 2014, 03:54:25 am
To be entirely fair, tone aside

You can go ahead and put me on your ignore list, too.  You'll feel better without the temptation to respond to things like this.

Here is the link, for your convenience:    http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore

Really, no one tore into that joker a few pages back when he was telling people to put parachutes and probe cores on discarded stages to recover science.  People just let him give false advice about things he hadnt actually tested, because it isnt worth it to talk sense into someone like that. 

But when I ask for help with something that I've had problems with since the first demo of KSP back in 2011 (yes, I have never used the W key in those years) you feel the need to defend him for mouthing off.  So it looks like you'll be a lot happier if you dont have to read my posts.

Don't worry, you wont miss much.  they're not very good.
I don't ignore people on principle. I may 'ignore' them via not taking what they say seriously or vehemently refusing to see what point they are trying to make in favor of maintaining mine, but I find it's very much counterproductive to just not give yourself a chance to listen.

Feel free to ignore me though. You don't seem to be the kind of person who minds such trivialties. ^_^

And I don't defend his tone. Just his advice. Short and crude it may have been, rudely accented with a failed attempt at an ironic echo it may have been, but it would - or could - have helped you had you followed it. As far as stuff said by people on the internet goes, roundaboutly useful advice is way above par. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 01:23:24 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 01:09:54 pm
Really, no one tore into that joker a few pages back when he was telling people to put parachutes and probe cores on discarded stages to recover funds.  People just let him give false advice about things he hadnt actually tested, because it isnt worth it to talk sense into someone like that. 

That joker didn't defend his position when confronted (because he knew it was wrong), nor did he resort to namecalling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dragnar on July 21, 2014, 01:29:03 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on July 21, 2014, 12:52:55 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 10:49:33 am
At the same time, orbital mechanics and things are WAY beyond a lot of people.
Maybe, but not at the basic level that you need to do things in KSP. Stuff like "Burn prograde/retrograde to raise/lower your orbit" is easy enough to get.
The complicated things like calculating perfect transfer orbits is of course way beyond that, but you don't actually need to know that to play KSP. If you want you can just throw more Δv at the problem and do it less efficiently.
Man, KSP is being used in schools to teach orbital mechanics to kids. Like, lower school kids. Kids who don't even know what the branches of mathematics involved are called! KSP falls into the classification which is best for teaching in fact: Easy to learn, incredibly difficult to master.

The wall that keeps people out is the initial learning period - the point where they realize they don't know how to progress, and the game isn't going to go out of it's way to explain it to them, they need to find something external. ...I really have no idea if that's a good or bad thing though to be frank. It's great for those curious enough to go looking. It encourages and reinforces learning. But it does mean a lot of people get frustrated and drop it entirely instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on July 21, 2014, 02:21:45 pm
Yeah, I think it might be helpful to have a bit more in-depth in-game tutorial. Not necessarily something that explains all the finer points of space launch and exploration, but if something at least gave some basic hints for how to get a rocket into space that would be really helpful. Heck, maybe even have it give you a random "tip" every time one of your spaceships explode like "burning pro-grade while in orbit will make your orbit larger!" or "firing engines at an angle while launching will help establish a circular orbit!". I think that would go a long way towards explaining without explaining. (Also the game really needs to explain the maneuvers tab better, I had literally no idea how it worked until I found an online tutorial; suddenly getting to space reliably was much easier to do :P).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 02:30:18 pm
The tutorial does tell you stuff...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on July 21, 2014, 02:33:37 pm
I learned how to not explode by fiddling and exploding alot in mid air. It's something I like the most about KSP, feeling it out is very fun. When you've gotten your trajectories/velocity/building without sucking/etc stuff nailed down it just becomes a 'do what you'd like to' thing. Though I still haven't tried to land on an asteroid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 02:44:57 pm
I think a reasonable starting place would be like a lexicon or something.  Teaching you how to fly is one thing, but what is missing is a basic guide to the UI.

It needs things like "This is what Isp means." and "This is what those icons on your navball mean."

Definitions of prograde and antinormal and how to apply them to move your ship around would be NICE, but you have to first know that the little icon means prograde before you can go look up what prograde means.

And then how the interface works, like fine-adjustments for placing parts.  I didn't even know that existed for the longest time.  And how to transfer resources between components.

It is one thing to learn about orbital mechanics and physics from third party sources, but to have to learn the games interface and basic commands from a fan-curated wiki... well, i guess that is a foolish thing for a Dwarf Fortress player to complain about... but it does not seem okay for a commercial game to do this.

On the other hand, some of the enjoyment is the joy of discovery.  Hard to say where the right balance is.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 02:47:26 pm
Personally, I prefer KerbAI to mechjeb, mostly because you can do interesting things like launch several rockets at once and partially because its harder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 02:52:23 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 02:47:26 pm
Personally, I prefer KerbAI to mechjeb, mostly because you can do interesting things like launch several rockets at once and partially because its harder.

whazzat
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on July 21, 2014, 02:55:54 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 01:09:54 pm
Really, no one tore into that joker a few pages back when he was telling people to put parachutes and probe cores on discarded stages to recover funds.  People just let him give false advice about things he hadnt actually tested, because it isnt worth it to talk sense into someone like that. 

You might be referring to my post?

Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 18, 2014, 03:04:14 pm
Yeah, yesterday I tried adding probe controls and parachutes to all of my discarded stages. It didn't work since they simply disappear as soon as I look at the map, I'm not sure why. But it saddens me, because I'm losing a lot of money in discarded staging...

If that's the case, I wasn't joking or suggesting anything :) I had just gotten the patch, played a bit and noticed how much money I was losing from discarded stages and decided to give probes+parachutes it a try since it seemed like a sane approach. So I did test it. It just didn't work, and somebody was nice enough to give me a reason why!

Quote from: dragnar on July 18, 2014, 05:33:49 pm
Scott Manley did a video explaining this - short version, if something is unloaded (ie, 2.5km away from the active ship) and under a certain altitude in the atmosphere, the game deletes it, regardless of whether or not it should have survived. There's already a mod to fix it though - check out DebRefund, it autorecovers stuff when it would otherwise be scuttled, based on parachutes active on it. (technically based on drag, but close enough)

I thought it was a nice idea and subsequent discussion :'( I wonder how much of the original money you get back after accounting for used parachutes and separators/decouples (do they lose their value once deployed?) and fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 03:00:47 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 02:52:23 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 02:47:26 pm
Personally, I prefer KerbAI to mechjeb, mostly because you can do interesting things like launch several rockets at once and partially because its harder.

whazzat

I have no personal experience with it mind you, but I believe its a program that lets you effectively autopilot things but has you write the autopiloting stuff yourself?
Something like that.
Basically its a programmable autopilot, whereas mechjeb is a pre-programmed autopilot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:02:06 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68089-0-24-kOS-Scriptable-Autopilot-System?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 03:07:38 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 02:52:23 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 02:47:26 pm
Personally, I prefer KerbAI to mechjeb, mostly because you can do interesting things like launch several rockets at once and partially because its harder.
whazzat
Basic video, rather out of date (http://youtu.be/uzdizR6bJiM)
Newest Download (http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/220265-kos-scriptable-autopilot-system)

Fecking ninjas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:16:21 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 21, 2014, 02:55:54 pm
You might be referring to my post?

I'm most assuredly not.  You have constructive things to add to add to this discussion, and I am sorry that you felt like any of this silly mudslinging was directed at you.  It was not.

Really, I do admire how everyone else is just moving on with the thread and letting the ridiculous bits die out.  I need to learn to be better about doing this.  I should have known better than to reply at all.  Honestly, I did know better -- I just make poor choices sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:16:21 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 21, 2014, 02:55:54 pm
You might be referring to my post?

I'm most assuredly not.  You have constructive things to add to add to this discussion, and I am sorry that you felt like any of this silly mudslinging was directed at you.  It was not.

Is that a grudge?

...am I ignored?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 21, 2014, 03:25:18 pm
Can't we all just get along and strap kerbals to tons of explosives in the name of science?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 03:32:24 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:16:21 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 21, 2014, 02:55:54 pm
You might be referring to my post?

I'm most assuredly not.  You have constructive things to add to add to this discussion, and I am sorry that you felt like any of this silly mudslinging was directed at you.  It was not.

Is that a grudge?

...am I ignored?

*facepalm*

Calm down Putty, he's trying to let this go.

As for Mr. Puke, Putnam is usually a pretty decent guy, he just tends to be...curt...with his replies and such. For awhile I also was under the impression that he was...well a douchebag, but I've since realized he just tends to be very blunt with things.

So can we get back to friendly rocket scienceing now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:35:57 pm
Sir, if you are launching rockets with friendliness then it is my sad duty to inform you that you are rocket sciencing incorrectly. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:36:34 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 03:32:24 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:16:21 pm
Quote from: Anvilfolk on July 21, 2014, 02:55:54 pm
You might be referring to my post?

I'm most assuredly not.  You have constructive things to add to add to this discussion, and I am sorry that you felt like any of this silly mudslinging was directed at you.  It was not.

Is that a grudge?

...am I ignored?

*facepalm*

Calm down Putty, he's trying to let this go.

As for Mr. Puke, Putnam is usually a pretty decent guy, he just tends to be...curt...with his replies and such. For awhile I also was under the impression that he was...well a douchebag, but I've since realized he just tends to be very blunt with things.

So can we get back to friendly rocket scienceing now?

Darn. That's still a problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
So, how do debris and parachutes work, exactly?  You get refunded for items that are reclaimed, how does that handle discarded stages?  I know that the capsule and attached items are refunded, but how are things like boosters and lower stages accounted?  I've been putting parachutes on things out of habit, or simply doing single-stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 04:00:58 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
So, how do debris and parachutes work, exactly?  You get refunded for items that are reclaimed, how does that handle discarded stages?  I know that the capsule and attached items are refunded, but how are things like boosters and lower stages accounted?  I've been putting parachutes on things out of habit, or simply doing single-stage.

This is what Anvilfolk was talking about.  Basically, you're screwed on discarded stages.

It seems like anything that falls out of the 2km (2.5km?) physics range is discarded.  You can put parachutes and probe cores and such on your boost stages, but those things wont trigger unless you can manually switch to it during flight and land it safely.  This is hard to do while you are trying to launch a rocket.

On the other hand, you can get full points for recovering sub-craft, if for example one rocket has three landers.

Also, I have landed rockets, taken the kerbal out, recovered the kerbal with his soil sample, and then recovered the empty unkerbaled lander for its regular value.  This is probalby possible because it got to the ground safely with the physics engine watching it, rather than abstractly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2014, 04:03:11 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
So, how do debris and parachutes work, exactly?  You get refunded for items that are reclaimed, how does that handle discarded stages?  I know that the capsule and attached items are refunded, but how are things like boosters and lower stages accounted?  I've been putting parachutes on things out of habit, or simply doing single-stage.

Basically, they don't work at all....anything that's ever a certain distance from you is deleted, parachutes be damned. Someone posted a mod link that fixes this awhile back.

Quote from: Cmega3 on July 21, 2014, 03:49:16 pm
Now I landed on the Mün and I have declared that Probodobodyne wins everything and all other companies have no business in space.

Funny, my first rescue kerbal mission was from them. Immediately after I first achieved orbit. So I figured they must have been competing with me and accidently messed up big time, and I had to fix their mistake. Because space is for professionals.

Quote from: puke on July 21, 2014, 03:35:57 pm
Sir, if you are launching rockets with friendliness then it is my sad duty to inform you that you are rocket sciencing incorrectly. ;)
Don't you know? The Friendly Force Drive has the highest isp AND thrust of all drives. It can get you everyone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 21, 2014, 04:04:14 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
So, how do debris and parachutes work, exactly?  You get refunded for items that are reclaimed, how does that handle discarded stages?  I know that the capsule and attached items are refunded, but how are things like boosters and lower stages accounted?  I've been putting parachutes on things out of habit, or simply doing single-stage.
Stock KSP has everything that's flying but farther than 2.5km from you automatically despawn. Landed/splashed down objects never despawn. The easiest way to deal with this without modding is to design your rocket so the bottom stage has its own probe core and parachutes and can get up to an almost orbit, decouple right before you start the burn to turn it into a full orbit, then switch back to the bottom stage and activate its parachutes and keep it as you active vehicle until it's landed and can be recovered.

Here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86691) is a mod that seems to let you recover without all that work though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on July 21, 2014, 04:06:48 pm
Seems to be even worse than that. I was watching a stream from Jef Major the other day and he did a test. He landed the cockpit and booster stage at basically the same time with parachutes after separating them, but only got credit for the cockpit. The booster stage, despite sitting nicely next to the cockpit at landing, was simply deleted after he did the reclaim.

Sounds like a bug to me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 21, 2014, 04:22:13 pm
The game only gives you a refund if the recovered object has a command part attached, even if it is safely landed right next to the space centre. Unfortunately not even the debrefund mod changes that, so if you are using it you actually need to let your spent boosters leave physics range if you want the refund.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 21, 2014, 05:52:47 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
So, how do debris and parachutes work, exactly?  You get refunded for items that are reclaimed, how does that handle discarded stages?  I know that the capsule and attached items are refunded, but how are things like boosters and lower stages accounted?  I've been putting parachutes on things out of habit, or simply doing single-stage.
Discarded stage unless they landed while under the physic boundary ( wich is 2.5km away max from active craft ), wich also never happens, are totally destroyed. That is not expanded in the stock game. However there is a nifty little plugin that i love that does exactly that, recycle spent stage and give back some money depending on how fast they landed and how far away from KSC.

I.E.: A multi-part booster ( 2 tank, one LV-T45 2 parachute if i remember right ), will land under the 5ms/s with no damage thus giving full refund of part minus the distance and fuel spent. On the other hand if i had only one parachute it migh land at 7.8ms/s thus giving it a little damage lowering the max amount of refund.

What i like about that plugin is the feedback it gives you, if the stage simply blows up that because you dont have enough chute by a large margin, if it land in the *yellow* section (damaged) you also see the speed it was going uppon touchdown ( simulated mind you ) thus giving you an idea on how many chute i need etc.

Some says its cheating as you recover much more money leading to a big amount of fund in no time since you dont *bleed* money somewhere. Myself i find it decent because i play with so many mods and some piece cost so much that it would take me forever to do anything.

Also debrefund kicks in only when its outside of the active physic bubble.

Edit: Just realised that some of the information i said was already said, sorry for the overlapping information.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 21, 2014, 06:17:14 pm
Just stop worrying about garbage ship parts. Let them go. You're not getting paid for them as soon as they leave the bubble around the craft you're piloting. What you are getting paid for is contracts and boy howdy are you getting paid. Quit sweating the pennies and rake in your millions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 06:40:22 pm
Well, two reasons to sweat it.  Make it three if you include the "for lulz" reason:

1 - I imagine an upcoming 'iron man' mode to the game where you have to pay for every failed launch and there is no reverting.  people might choose to play this way unofficially, as a personal handycap.  In this case, every $ would count.

2 - if you're running pure science (or exploratory missions) out side of contracts, heavy lifters can really start costing.  I've spent upwards of 200k on large rockets, the boost stages probably being half of that.  As I unlock the heaviest technology and start sending up larger and larger payloads, each launch is costing a significant amount of funds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 06:41:59 pm
Hey, you can allready ironman mode.

Last tab in the debug menu (alt+F12)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2014, 06:43:11 pm
Do you know what's pretty cheap in KSP?
SRBs.

Use them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 21, 2014, 06:47:26 pm
the hell am i reading

probe core + parachute on stage allows you to turn it into an actual craft, which doesn't get nuked (unless this changed between versions, disclaimer that i'm like two versions behind by now here)

but it'd be one fucking aggressive debris deleting thing if it did that
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 06:50:15 pm
It goes on rails, so if the orbit is gonna cause it to crash (Say by dumping the first stage at 10km) they are gonna get removed.

And you are welcome Cmega
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 07:01:25 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 21, 2014, 06:47:26 pm
but it'd be one fucking aggressive debris deleting thing if it did that

Sure, sure, in orbit or in deep space that is fine.

But if you ditch the thing in atmosphere, it isnt going to respect the parachute behavior once it gets 2.5km clear of your active craft. 

And if you can pilot a discarded stage down while you have your primary vehicle still thrusting into orbit, then you deserve all the funds.  Heaven help you if you discard 8 asparagus tanks at once, though. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 07:06:25 pm
Thats probally something to use kerbAI for... have it fly up the ship while you guard the debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 07:12:23 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 07:06:25 pm
Thats probally something to use kerbAI for... have it fly up the ship while you guard the debris.

Where do you get the name "kerbAI"? Google comes up with nothing for that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 21, 2014, 07:13:53 pm
You want this mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86691)

If you add enough parachutes, anything that reenters is automatically recovered for up to 90% of the full value of the parts. It's great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 07:17:18 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 03:07:38 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2014, 02:52:23 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 02:47:26 pm
Personally, I prefer KerbAI to mechjeb, mostly because you can do interesting things like launch several rockets at once and partially because its harder.
whazzat
Basic video, rather out of date (http://youtu.be/uzdizR6bJiM)
Newest Download (http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/220265-kos-scriptable-autopilot-system)

Fecking ninjas.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 21, 2014, 08:56:55 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 21, 2014, 06:47:26 pm
probe core + parachute on stage allows you to turn it into an actual craft, which doesn't get nuked (unless this changed between versions, disclaimer that i'm like two versions behind by now here)
That's true for space, but if something is below like 60km (ie, in atmosphere) and outside 2.5 then the game assumes it'll crash.  It's not an unreasonable assumption, since it will be de-orbiting due to air resistance and it's generally safe to assume it'll be lost.  The game doesn't want to bog down processing with the 'does it crash?' because 99% of the time it does.

That was fine, before.  Now that there's costs and debris can be recovered, it actually becomes an issue.  It's entirely an issue of "Abstracting it away worked before, but now we need to actually know about it."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 09:53:36 pm
I know this is a totally petty thing to be worried about, but it totally bugs me that TT18-A's dont have their cost recouped.  and that you cant attach command parts to them.

I guess you could attach them to a command pod which is in turn attached to a radial-decoupler, but this seems silly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 21, 2014, 10:34:53 pm
If you pick up a stranded kerbal in orbit every time you send out a vehicle you can make an easy $50-70k. There's most of your booster stage to orbit. There is always a kerbal to rescue. You never have to hire kerbals. Science from kerbin orbit, even 0, sent back is another $30k+. Build on the cheap and you'll never hurt for money. Now if you want to build a 1.1 million buck 520 ton cargo lifter, be my guest. I got one in my subassemblies. It's all NASA parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 21, 2014, 11:11:49 pm
Yeah, that's pretty much how I roll.  about 2 or three paid missions to one luxury mission, usually even picking up one paid gig (return science back from x) on the luxury missions. 

My heavy lift stages are a bit spendy :)

I'm actually really happy with this Contract business.  People have said that it is shallow, but it has added enough to the game to get me playing daily for the first time in about 6 months.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:17:54 pm
I hope they are going to add missions someday though, missions to move things between worlds might be nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:23:06 pm
Yah, but I also want an excuse to learn to make cyclers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on July 21, 2014, 11:28:44 pm
So... my careermode save, which I've has since career mode's initial release, is now 168 years old.

Should I just backup my VTOL and my Duna rocket and start over?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:41:23 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on July 21, 2014, 11:25:59 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:23:06 pm
Yah, but I also want an excuse to learn to make cyclers.
You could have space stations transferring resources and research between each other.
Win-Win situation!
in kerbin-duna transfers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:54:33 pm
Sounds iffy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 21, 2014, 11:58:40 pm
There is already at least one mod working on custom contracts. Unfortunately it looks like they have to be compiled into a dll, so no easy custom contracts from any joe schmo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 07:48:38 am
Here's what my space program has been up to today:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/24/screenshot68.png)

Yes, that's a Mun lander, and yes, it's stranded. Thankfully the contracts don't care for returning the data, and it's got plenty of power to transmit.

Brief history of why it has a probe unit on top and why it's hilarious, summed up with the list of active contracts at launch:

* Return or transmit data from space around the Mun. (Complete!)
* Explore the Mun:
  - Establish orbit around the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Return or transmit science data from orbit around the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Land on the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Return or transmit data from the surface of the Mun. (Complete!)
* Plant a flag on the Mun. (Complete!)
* Rescue Mitnard Kerman from orbit around Kerbin:
  - Get Mitnard Kerman aboard a vessel. (Complete!)
  - Return home and recover Mitnard Kerman. (Uh...)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2014, 07:52:22 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on July 21, 2014, 11:17:54 pm
I hope they are going to add missions someday though, missions to move things between worlds might be nice.
Given the way the devs are doing things (or at least saying how they're doing things), contracts as they are now are merely establishing the groundwork, with additional content upcoming in later updates.

Still, i can't wait for the modders to do all sorts of wonderful things with the system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 22, 2014, 09:05:18 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 07:48:38 am
Yes, that's a Mun lander, and yes, it's stranded. Thankfully the contracts don't care for returning the data, and it's got plenty of power to transmit.

Indeed, that is a Mun lander. It is not a Mun leaver. The side tanks should be dropable and you need another 300 or so fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 22, 2014, 09:12:55 am
So because I Winzipped my KSP stuffs into temporary files on accident, I just lost KSP, my career save, and generally stuffs.

On the other hand, it gives me an excuse to download the 64 bit version instead (don't know why I did 32 at first) and means I don't have to rescue Dundrigh from the Mun.

Also gonna get that mod with the part returning and play in full IRONMAN mode. Just because.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 09:17:25 am
Quote from: BigD145 on July 22, 2014, 09:05:18 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 07:48:38 am
Yes, that's a Mun lander, and yes, it's stranded. Thankfully the contracts don't care for returning the data, and it's got plenty of power to transmit.

Indeed, that is a Mun lander. It is not a Mun leaver. The side tanks should be dropable and you need another 300 or so fuel.
What it actually turned out to need was three more standard tanks and six more boosters in the lifter stage. The rescue vehicle that came after Mitnard was mostly the same design, just without the science stuffs. It did a pretty hard landing, losing two outer engines and breaking three legs (I should really work on slope landings), but was intact enough for Mitnard to transfer most of the experimental data from the other craft aboard and leave, returning safely to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2014, 09:25:54 am
Quote from: BigD145 on July 22, 2014, 09:05:18 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 07:48:38 am
Yes, that's a Mun lander, and yes, it's stranded. Thankfully the contracts don't care for returning the data, and it's got plenty of power to transmit.

Indeed, that is a Mun lander. It is not a Mun leaver. The side tanks should be dropable and you need another 300 or so fuel.
And a thruster of some sort.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 22, 2014, 11:42:36 am
Just having fun making a parody space agency:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 22, 2014, 12:10:43 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 07:48:38 am
Here's what my space program has been up to today:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/24/screenshot68.png)

Yes, that's a Mun lander, and yes, it's stranded. Thankfully the contracts don't care for returning the data, and it's got plenty of power to transmit.

Brief history of why it has a probe unit on top and why it's hilarious, summed up with the list of active contracts at launch:

* Return or transmit data from space around the Mun. (Complete!)
* Explore the Mun:
  - Establish orbit around the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Return or transmit science data from orbit around the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Land on the Mun. (Complete!)
  - Return or transmit data from the surface of the Mun. (Complete!)
* Plant a flag on the Mun. (Complete!)
* Rescue Mitnard Kerman from orbit around Kerbin:
  - Get Mitnard Kerman aboard a vessel. (Complete!)
  - Return home and recover Mitnard Kerman. (Uh...)
That looks like a dude with big ears and a big nose.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 22, 2014, 12:46:18 pm
I've been testing the two new 0.24 engines in sandbox mode. The Vernors/Verniers are going to be incredibly useful to a lot of designs, not least of which are spaceplanes - a lot of times you're hauling a good amount of RCS fuel with you, which ends up hurting performance. The Monoprop Engines are a different kind of awesome. Four engines and a large 2.5m RCS tank make the perfect Mun lander base. Stick a Lander Can on top, some instruments, landing legs, and parachutes, and it can return to Kerbin from the Munar surface with a comfortable margin. Of course, it'll probably need assistance to land, or the margin will become rather small, but on the overall it looks very good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 22, 2014, 09:41:18 pm
On an unrelated note, has anyone else been having trouble with the Chrome browser when KSP is loading up since the last patch? I seem to have the tabs, buttons, and address bar lock up for the left mouse button whenever I boot up KSP .24 x64.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 22, 2014, 10:15:58 pm
I had a KSP x86 crash wreak havoc on my mouse until rebooting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 22, 2014, 11:07:11 pm
Quote from: alway on July 22, 2014, 09:41:18 pm
On an unrelated note, has anyone else been having trouble with the Chrome browser when KSP is loading up since the last patch? I seem to have the tabs, buttons, and address bar lock up for the left mouse button whenever I boot up KSP .24 x64.
right click and you are good to go?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 22, 2014, 11:16:25 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on July 22, 2014, 11:07:11 pm
Quote from: alway on July 22, 2014, 09:41:18 pm
On an unrelated note, has anyone else been having trouble with the Chrome browser when KSP is loading up since the last patch? I seem to have the tabs, buttons, and address bar lock up for the left mouse button whenever I boot up KSP .24 x64.
right click and you are good to go?
Yeah; so I take it that means I'm not the only one. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 22, 2014, 11:40:01 pm
I've been playing around with making robot walkers with infernal robotics. They're pretty fun, if not very practical. Unfortunately the larger ones tend to break their legs as soon as they step off level ground, and they have to be pretty big if you want any kind of speed out of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 22, 2014, 11:46:02 pm
Well I decided to go into sandbox mode, and experiment with a SSTO space program for the first time since before the rapier engines came out.  I took off several times, experimenting with my plane's turn rate, fuel consumption, acceleration, all those things.  I then went and finally decided to see how high I can get.  I accidentally sent myself to somewhere around 140,000 meters.  I didn't have enough oxidizer left to stabilize the orbit.  I don't know where the periapsis was, because resolution problems kept me from accessing the orbit map, but if I had access to that I could of easily set up a stable orbit at about 100,000 meters, and possibly even dock at a refueling station.  I feel like rapiers are cheating, it was so easy.  I didn't even have to go and modify my design ONCE from when I first made it.
Tomorrow I'm going to try to get to Laythe, so I'll post a log of doing that.  My current plan is to put refueling stations at Kerbin orbit, Laythe orbit, and on a small airbase on the Laythe surface.  I'll also have two docking ports on my SSTO.  One will be for docking, and the other will be for adding a interplanetary stage of atomic engines. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 22, 2014, 11:56:30 pm
Quote from: alway on July 22, 2014, 11:16:25 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on July 22, 2014, 11:07:11 pm
Quote from: alway on July 22, 2014, 09:41:18 pm
On an unrelated note, has anyone else been having trouble with the Chrome browser when KSP is loading up since the last patch? I seem to have the tabs, buttons, and address bar lock up for the left mouse button whenever I boot up KSP .24 x64.
right click and you are good to go?
Yeah; so I take it that means I'm not the only one. :P
Very common bug for those using the x64 version of kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 02:46:17 am
So everyone thinks that SSTOs are all the rage, but I have to wonder, has anyone ever built a multistage space plane? Not a shuttle style space plane or a plane on top of a rocket, but something with rocket engines which takes off like a plane, can drop a stage (or several) in midair and continue flying as a plane until it gets to orbit.

I imagine balancing would be the most difficult challenge, but it should be possible. I kind of want to try making one now. Bonus points if the spent stages are capable of gliding to a safe landing on their own.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 23, 2014, 02:54:11 am
For some of my earlier designs that couldn't take off if their lives depended on it (Quite literally), I often put rocket boosters onboard.  The first stage would get it off the ground, the second would then get it to about 5000 meters or so. 
For me thou building a spaceplane is mostly in the challenge, and being able to ditch that useless engine and fuel tank would make it too easy. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 03:06:07 am
I mean stages integrated into the plane, not just boosters. Imagine some huge monstrosity with a giant wingspan and some smaller canards, and then half the plane breaks off to reveal that the canards are in fact the wings of a second stage plane.

Maybe this is all nonsense and I shouldn't be coming up with ideas at 4:00 am.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 23, 2014, 03:27:54 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 03:06:07 am
I mean stages integrated into the plane, not just boosters. Imagine some huge monstrosity with a giant wingspan and some smaller canards, and then half the plane breaks off to reveal that the canards are in fact the wings of a second stage plane.

Maybe this is all nonsense and I shouldn't be coming up with ideas at 4:00 am.
It kinda defeats a lot of the purpose of a spaceplane, but there were at least some designs I made that used an airbreather as a launch platform for a more conventional rocketship.

I also had one SSTO design with a detachable, remote-controlled engine pod. Since engine space was at a premium, it used different engines on each side, and had a probe core and RCS to detach, reorient, and re-dock itself. This was before the RAPIERs became a thing, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 23, 2014, 03:32:17 am
They need to adjust the stats of the rapier.  Does it have any disadvantages compared to the turbojet engine?
I think I might build a plane at some point that is capable of launching a rocket.  Get it up to about 20,000 feet at a thousand meters a second, and the rocket would be able to bypass the bad part of the atmosphere.  It would be effective for rescue missions, at the least.   
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 23, 2014, 04:16:18 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on July 23, 2014, 03:32:17 am
They need to adjust the stats of the rapier.  Does it have any disadvantages compared to the turbojet engine?
Slightly lower thrust(190vs225), easier to flame out (33%vs10%), higher cost (3600vs2250). It used to weigh more and have the same thrust, but apparently that changed in 0.24.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 05:07:53 am
They also don't generate electricity. Of course a single solar panel basically makes that a non-issue, but I did lose a SSTO I threw together because of it.

My robot walkers are developing nicely. The Mark V can keep a steady trot of around 4.5 m/s on an even surface and the Mark VI now includes articulated joints that allow it to turn without the need for reaction wheels. Unfortunately I still haven't found a way to make the limbs strong enough to not fall apart as soon as they hit a bump but still springy enough to allow for robust movement. The Mark VI also has some problems with the new joints which cause it to veer to the right from its neutral position and break apart once it gets going too fast.

Edit: Also, whooo! Got the first ever double rocket plane into orbit! What an incredibly useless contraption. And touchdown! Perfect flight except for not slowing down enough for the runway and being forced to land on the space centre fields.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 23, 2014, 06:15:16 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 03:06:07 am
I mean stages integrated into the plane, not just boosters. Imagine some huge monstrosity with a giant wingspan and some smaller canards, and then half the plane breaks off to reveal that the canards are in fact the wings of a second stage plane.

Maybe this is all nonsense and I shouldn't be coming up with ideas at 4:00 am.

Back quite a ways I made a spaceplane that held a microplane inside it. The idea was to be able to airdrop the microplane onto Laythe or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 23, 2014, 09:04:36 am
back when i were pretty terrible at balancing planes i had two planes on top of each other

the idea was for the one with the huge wingspan and rocket engines to get it off the runway and inject it into 25k in a stable manner

but then these were the times when i balanced my plane's nose with an orange tank hanging off of the tip so
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on July 23, 2014, 09:38:42 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 23, 2014, 02:46:17 am
So everyone thinks that SSTOs are all the rage, but I have to wonder, has anyone ever built a multistage space plane? Not a shuttle style space plane or a plane on top of a rocket, but something with rocket engines which takes off like a plane, can drop a stage (or several) in midair and continue flying as a plane until it gets to orbit.

I imagine balancing would be the most difficult challenge, but it should be possible. I kind of want to try making one now. Bonus points if the spent stages are capable of gliding to a safe landing on their own.
My spaceplanes always have 2 stages. I think the reason people like SSTOs is because of how easily they can land somewhere and take off into space again.

A while back, I remember dropping one of those infinigliders off of a probe into Laythe. It's the only craft I've ever flown around Laythe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 23, 2014, 11:36:51 am
I like spaceplanes because they are closest to those far future sci-fi spacecraft that can take off from one place, get into space like it was nothin, and fly around in space.

They also help me with targeted reentry because they tend to have liquid fuel left after they run out of oxidiser and I can fly it back to the KSC if I miss by a little bit.

I did build a few spaceplanes with something akin to droptanks on the wings before, which I suppose would make it a multistage spaceplane, but they tended to mess with my balance too much after they were dropped either making the plane too hard to fly while they were attached or too hard to fly after they were dropped.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 23, 2014, 11:41:43 am
You know what is massively fun? Turning on infinite fuel and seeing if you can control one of those launch escape system things into space.


EDIT: So just had my first Mun landing in IRONKERBAL MODE. The result?:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT2: GAH FUCK YOU KSP! THE SAME GODDAMN THING JUST HAPPENED ON MINMUS BECAUSE I TIPPED OVER AND IT SEPERATED MY FUCKING USELESS COMMAND POD FROM THE REST OF THE SHIP. I HAD FULL FUCKING FUEL GODDAMIT! WHY IS KERBAL WELDING SO USELESS? AND WHY THE SHIT WAS MY NAVBALL TELLING ME THE WRONG PERIAPSE DIRECTION? GAH FUCK YOU MOST OF ALL NAVBALL!!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 23, 2014, 03:59:43 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 23, 2014, 11:41:43 am
EDIT2: GAH FUCK YOU KSP! THE SAME GODDAMN THING JUST HAPPENED ON MINMUS BECAUSE I TIPPED OVER AND IT SEPERATED MY FUCKING USELESS COMMAND POD FROM THE REST OF THE SHIP. I HAD FULL FUCKING FUEL GODDAMIT! WHY IS KERBAL WELDING SO USELESS? AND WHY THE SHIT WAS MY NAVBALL TELLING ME THE WRONG PERIAPSE DIRECTION? GAH FUCK YOU MOST OF ALL NAVBALL!!!
PEBKAC + mods
Good job.

Next time design bottom heavy craft not top heavy ones and do not ever weld command anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 23, 2014, 04:13:17 pm
It WAS bottom heavy. And I didn't actually weld anything, I meant why is it possible for a command pod to just pop off the rocket like that? I mean it wasn't even moving that fast!

Basically what happened was I was moving horizontally at like 7 m/s and the navball was telling me the wrong direction, so I couldn't fix it in time. One of my landing legs hit before the others, and this flipped the whole thing upside down, I attempted recovery and the parachute hit the ground, exploding, after which the command pod hit and just popped off like they didn't even have it so much as screwed to the rest of the ship.

Seriously, landings in this game are like the highest my blood pressure will ever reach, because somehow they always mess up and tip/flip over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2014, 04:24:32 pm
Odd, I normally succeed most of the time...

But yah, things like popping off.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 23, 2014, 04:25:01 pm
Near Future Technologies updated for .24!

Development of a small VASIMR-powered shuttle was sometimes faced with dangerous issues.

Spoiler: Control center? Uh... we have a problem. (click to show/hide)

But ultimately, it was successful.

Spoiler: Powered by a twin VASIMR... so like cross between an X-Wing and a TIE Fighter (click to show/hide)

Decent dV reserve, maximum TWR of 0.5, and it's all possible thanks to Near Future Technologies. ^_^
I really like being able to design such compact craft, even if their use is highly niche. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 23, 2014, 04:27:05 pm
That looks awesome, a modding I will go.

Also, Universal Storage looks beautiful with ECLSS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on July 23, 2014, 05:02:13 pm
Is Kethane still the go-to gathering-resources-in-space-and-turning-them-into-propulsive-power mod?  And do asteroids contain kethane?   :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 23, 2014, 05:25:35 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on July 23, 2014, 05:02:13 pm
Is Kethane still the go-to gathering-resources-in-space-and-turning-them-into-propulsive-power mod?  And do asteroids contain kethane?   :P
more or less the same yeah. But now its also a framework that other mod used to expand uppon ssuch as extraplanetary lanchpad, some colony bulding such as mks and oks mod. Now if you also use scansat mod, the satelitte will also scan In the backgrou d. No more activating your satelite, setting full warp and go to bed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 23, 2014, 07:17:31 pm
With the entire ModStatistics fiasco going on, an open alternative for Kethane called Karbonite (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87335-Karbonite-A-cheerful-license-friendly-alternative-to-Kethane!) is being developed. This is from the same guy that did Hollow Asteroids and a whole bunch of other mods, so expect asteroid mining from the get-go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 23, 2014, 08:15:11 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on July 23, 2014, 07:17:31 pm
With the entire ModStatistics fiasco going on,
Oh wow, looking that up... That sounds quite illegal in a good portion of the world.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 23, 2014, 08:37:35 pm
Can I get a TL;DR?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on July 23, 2014, 08:39:19 pm
Apparently ModStatistics collects "anonymous" data for modders' use.  It's apparently added in with some modpacks so people didn't know they were getting it.  Also doesn't have an opt-in function, you have to disable it via configs or deleting the files.

People are getting angry because privacy issues (which I support, but won't go on a rant here).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 23, 2014, 08:39:34 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 23, 2014, 08:37:35 pm
Can I get a TL;DR?

Opt-out no-notification semi-anonymous mod usage tracking getting people up in a twist.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 23, 2014, 08:48:42 pm
It has even spawned mods to specifically neutralize it, such as Stillbetterthanspyware (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87111-0-24-StillBetterThanSpyware-A-mod-to-disable-ModStatistics?highlight=Stillbetterthanspyware).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 23, 2014, 10:07:38 pm
Supposedly some mods won't work if you delete modstats from within them. That's the shadiest bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 24, 2014, 12:04:18 am
Looking at the OP for the mod thread it only gathers information relavent to KSP.  As long as it's only gathering that information (as well as an IP address of course communicating with the server) I see no issue with it.

Privacy is important but what part of this is actually violating anything important to privacy?  How long I've played KSP this session?  Who cares?  What mods I'm running? So what?  How many times the game crashed? Oh noes...  My IP address? If yer worried about that getting out better take out your network card altogether...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 12:09:40 am
wow get out

i bet you support the nsa too

this whole shit would be fine if it was actually opt-in like you know things that are not fucking illegal
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karkov on July 24, 2014, 12:13:25 am
Quote from: Greiger on July 24, 2014, 12:04:18 am
Looking at the OP for the mod thread it only gathers information relavent to KSP.  As long as it's only gathering that information (as well as an IP address of course communicating with the server) I see no issue with it.

Privacy is important but what part of this is actually violating anything important to privacy?  How long I've played KSP this session?  Who cares?  What mods I'm running? So what?  How many times the game crashed? Oh noes...  My IP address? If yer worried about that getting out better take out your network card altogether...

That's actually one of the reasons I said I wouldn't rant on this.  It wouldn't be too much of a change for it to start grabbing other stuff from your computer without your permission.  I could really go into detail about why this mod could be a bad thing, but I just want to read stuff about people sending little green dudes to an asteroid at the speed of Kraken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 24, 2014, 12:19:33 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 12:09:40 am
wow get out

i bet you support the nsa too

this whole shit would be fine if it was actually opt-in like you know things that are not fucking illegal

Better stop using bay 12 then, it logs your IP and there isn't even an opt out option.

Are you seriously concerned that mods are coming bundled with a tool for modders that reports crashes and what mods you are using in conjunction with others?  I only see good things coming from this as modders improve support between mods for things commonly used together.

Unless there is some horrible thing going on behind the scenes here that is not being openly said, I see only good things with this.

If it changes to grab other things?  Yea that's different, but then it would be right to be opposed to it, I would too.  But not all data collection is bad for users.  I think this is one of the good ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 12:25:02 am
actually there is an opt-out option and i've been using it for a couple years now thank you very much

and no, "good data collection" and "not asking for user's consent" do not mix ever

i guess that's just american mentality speaking, boo hoo you want privacy in the modern world go live in a cave

spoiler alert there's a lot of privacy to be had here and i value it, though you won't see me slamming steam's hardware stats or things of that variety because they bloody well asked me whenever i want to give them that data
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 24, 2014, 12:36:58 am
Know what?  Screw it, I'm not continuing this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 12:44:59 am
...if you're actually being told modstats is being used, why the seven pages worth of crap on the sbts page

it's pretty prominent on the far plugin thread page thing too vOv

gg holding up ksp forums to the same standard as bay12 but still

Quote from: Greiger on July 24, 2014, 12:36:58 am
And yes, quite a bit of technology does necessitate a loss of privacy, want a GPS? Well better come to terms that somebody at the supplying company could see where your tracker is located if it was on and they felt it was important enough.  Want a cell phone?  Again somebody at the supplying company could track your phone if they felt it was necessary.  Just because it may be illegal somewhere doesn't mean it can't be done.

this argument was based on the part where people seemingly were not told that modstats is bundled

nobody's forcing a gps on you, and apparently nobody's forcing modstats on you either (but gl disabling it now that the plugin designed to do so is going down the gutter)

and wow this somewhere is quite a large area you know

but this derail is now pointless and you can feel free to move it someplace else if you want to continue talking about it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on July 24, 2014, 01:55:18 am
It'd be fine if people knew it was there and could opt-in, but it was forced on them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 24, 2014, 02:44:39 am
Umm... yikes. Sorry about that, I didn't mean to start a !storm!. Let's forget I ever mentioned it and avert a tantrum spiral here too, okay?

You know what's cool? Shooting little green men into space!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 24, 2014, 03:08:40 am
I like shooting little green men into space, but I'm still not very good at it.

I've run into a bit of an issue before where I've acquired most of the available data from my local system and, through a combination of poor knowledge and skills and even worse spending choices, I could not advance myself further along technologically because I was incapable of making the transfer to another planet. Hopefully the new version, with the greater opportunities it grants for research gathering, will help me get past my barrier this time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 24, 2014, 03:46:07 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on July 24, 2014, 03:08:40 am
I like shooting little green men into space, but I'm still not very good at it.

I've run into a bit of an issue before where I've acquired most of the available data from my local system and, through a combination of poor knowledge and skills and even worse spending choices, I could not advance myself further along technologically because I was incapable of making the transfer to another planet. Hopefully the new version, with the greater opportunities it grants for research gathering, will help me get past my barrier this time.
It doesn't so much grant better opportunities for research gathering, as it lets you earn research through easier means. I was able to jumpstart my research at one point by doing a patently meaningless (from a classic KSP standpoint) flight with a hilariously stupid rocket, just so I could fulfill two part testing contracts in one go and get some extra science points to unlock a node.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 24, 2014, 03:57:08 am
I suppose I could have worded it better, yes.

I do confess to doing something similar, though. I suppose it helps to encourage people to think outside the box and try new things rather than going for the mundane and proven repeatedly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 24, 2014, 05:16:16 am
New NFT ship project: Experimental Tylo expedition vessel. So far came up with this:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/24/screenshot76.png)
(not inspired by any Austin Powers movie)

Decent dV, and that's at maximum thrust with all engines. If it switches to only VASIMRs, and goes to maximum efficiency with those, it ends up with...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/24/screenshot77.png)
...enough to fly around the whole Kerbol system a few times. :P

I gotta see if it really has enough staying power at maximum thrust to land at Tylo though. It really doesn't seem like it at first glance... so I'm kind of skeptical for now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 06:56:45 am
Not only that, but it looks like a giant cock and balls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 07:19:17 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 06:56:45 am
Not only that, but it looks like a giant cock and balls.

your post is literally not inspired by any austin powers movie
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on July 24, 2014, 07:22:39 am
Note to self: Don't designate docking ports as decouplers (I can't think of any other possibility). Your satellites will get attacked by the Kraken. Or some eldritch abomination with a fetish for cloning ships, phasing them to a parallel universe and then magically changing your circular orbit into a collision course after timewarp. Even SCANSat reports an impossible orbit (Constant, non-equatorial latitude? Say what?!).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I keep terminating the defects from the tracking center but switching to the would-be safe satellite turns that one into a defect as well, controls all gone and effectively dead, but then switching crafts creates a new "safe" one. And they're listed as both probes and debris.

Rinse repeat.

Oh well, there goes that satellite. At least I managed to scan all of Minmus (except for Kethane).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 07:30:31 am
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 07:19:17 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 06:56:45 am
Not only that, but it looks like a giant cock and balls.

your post is literally not inspired by any austin powers movie

Seeing how I've never seen an Austin Powers movie, that is correct.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on July 24, 2014, 02:12:24 pm
You will be needing a launch stage with that, however, or else it's not getting off the pad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 24, 2014, 02:50:38 pm
Hey look, the pods in the sane spot, keeps it away from all that nasty guff its flying to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on July 24, 2014, 03:02:20 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on July 24, 2014, 07:19:17 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 06:56:45 am
Not only that, but it looks like a giant cock and balls.

your post is literally not inspired by any austin powers movie
Actually I'm pretty sure that his post is inspired by the fact that it, you know, has balls. Literally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 24, 2014, 09:35:07 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 24, 2014, 05:16:16 am
New NFT ship project: Experimental Tylo expedition vessel. So far came up with this:

I like those round tanks. What are they from?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 24, 2014, 10:15:03 pm
Near future.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 24, 2014, 10:46:14 pm
I used to be able to build rockets with parts (sub-craft) attached to docking ports.  I cant seem to do this now.

Specifically, I used to be able to construct a bunch of little landers and put landing cans on the top and stick clamp-o-trons on the top of the landing cans.

And then I could take a big rocket and attach a bunch of radial clamp-o-trons, and then add my landers so it looked like a branch of brussles sprouts or something like that.

Anyway, I cant do that now.  I can radially mount my clamp-o-trons on the rocket, but I cant then attach other things to a radially mounted clamp-o-tron.  I CAN attach to a in-line mounted clamp-o-tron.

is this a new "feature"?  Has it patched an exploit I was using?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 24, 2014, 11:04:33 pm
A picture might help show what's wrong. They seem to be working fine for me.

Are the root parts of these subcraft the clamp-o-trons? You can only connect to the main craft with the root part, the connection points don't show up for other parts connected to the root. This has always been the case as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 24, 2014, 11:17:13 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 24, 2014, 11:04:33 pm
A picture might help show what's wrong. They seem to be working fine for me.

Are the root parts of these subcraft the clamp-o-trons? You can only connect to the main craft with the root part, the connection points don't show up for other parts connected to the root. This has always been the case as far as I'm aware.

ah ha, this is the thing.  it needed to be the root part.  Actually, I can build it from the radially attached clampotron outward -- i just cant build a subcraft independently (or in line) and then expect to attach it later.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 25, 2014, 12:35:05 am
Quote from: puke on July 24, 2014, 11:17:13 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 24, 2014, 11:04:33 pm
A picture might help show what's wrong. They seem to be working fine for me.

Are the root parts of these subcraft the clamp-o-trons? You can only connect to the main craft with the root part, the connection points don't show up for other parts connected to the root. This has always been the case as far as I'm aware.

ah ha, this is the thing.  it needed to be the root part.  Actually, I can build it from the radially attached clampotron outward -- i just cant build a subcraft independently (or in line) and then expect to attach it later.

Thanks!
Try SelectRoot (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43208-0-24-Jul18-SelectRoot-Set-a-new-root-part-0-24-new-UI). Great little plugin for quality of life.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on July 25, 2014, 04:54:43 pm
Spoiler: I am unsure of what I've built and what it's meant to do. (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Send help. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on July 25, 2014, 04:57:56 pm
It looks like your space program is coming along nicely!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 25, 2014, 05:06:41 pm
Yes it is, that is an excellent space.  You are almost spacing like a pro.  Give me a moment and I'll see if I can spot any errors.

Ah I think I got it.  I don't see any kerbals attached, kerbal smoke can add that special je ne sais quoi to any spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 26, 2014, 11:39:14 am
Awesome disaster happened last night:

I had just flown 10 Kerbalnauts to Minmus, one piloting the main rocket and nine in landers to scoop up the sciences from each biome.  Fully SEVEN landers successfully on the surface, one in each of seven biomes.

Number eight and nine had been detached form the mothership, and I was plotting a decent course for the eighth lander to put it down on the lowlands.

Now, usually a few seconds into the decent burns, the screen re-orients as it crosses some orbital/surface boundary.  I'm in map view, and true to form this happens.  Although this time my navball is tumbling also. Uh-oh.

I switched over to the staging view, and a quick inspection suggests that everything is okay.  Cycle views to the other lander, it is okay also.

Cycle views again.  A tiny radial engine, floating in space.  Another one.  Another.  A random part.  A whole line of junk - maybe 20 tiny pieces - strewn across an orbit.

The crew and science section of the mothership is in tact, but I rocketed right into it's last full fuel tank and associated engines.  Seemingly without damaging my lander.

*Seemingly* without damaging it.  By the time I get it on the surface, all its equipment in tact, and go to extend the solar array... wait, no solar array.  10% battery left after some heavy SAS use.  Not going home.

Looks like i've got two kerbals to rescue now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: i2amroy on July 26, 2014, 03:16:17 pm
Quote from: puke on July 26, 2014, 11:39:14 am
Looks like i've got two kerbals to rescue now.
You know I just realized that the lack of needing oxygen/food for my kernels has led to more !fun! missions than anything I've ever done on purpose. In the real world you would just have to say, "we can't do anything here", and leave them to die, but not in Kerbal space program, no, there you get to go on even more complicated missions to rescue them! ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 26, 2014, 03:52:04 pm
Loaded Jeb up in a three-seater and sent him to pick up my two strand-ees.  Launched the 7 fully juiced landers, and then had a brainstorm:

Waited for Minmus to rotate such that the low-battery lander was pointed roughly retrograde to Kerbin, and just burned straight up.

It was a little tricky with no SAS, and minimal course corrections, but it is now on a solid return course home with all of its science!

Now the only one that needs to be picked up is Bob, who is still stuck in orbit aboard the remains of the mothership.

I often think that the Life Support mod would be good to add, but then there might be less crazy rescues like this.  Or maybe the crazy rescues would just be more pressing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 26, 2014, 04:01:51 pm
Well, the BDArmory mod is fucking awesome. Images will be in soon.


And yah, more pressing rescues, although if you use ECLSS you technically can survive forever with enough power.

In the interest of saving space, no images will be posted. However, a link to the folder containing the images is HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b3y0gyck8099ih2/AABPDxIMe9BdV3fLodr--9zOa)
Oh, and you can fire mutable vehicles weapons at the same time...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mageziya on July 26, 2014, 05:52:08 pm
Spoiler: You give me anything, and I will make it fly. (click to show/hide)

Inspired by this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRXgFu3RpYk)

Mine's not as good, but I don't care. I made it fly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 26, 2014, 08:56:08 pm
Dear lord, had a 4km encounter in a save XYZ, hit throttle instead of time and get a 400m encounter...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 26, 2014, 09:06:03 pm
First real encounter for me.

ANd guess who cocked it up shortly thereafter?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 26, 2014, 10:21:28 pm
Is it just my imagination, or are spaceplanes a bit faster/better now? I have apparently built one capable of using a single turbojet engine which can get to 2340m/s at an altitude of around 40km. Enough to actually give it a periapsis of 10km, and an apoapsis of 75km. I don't remember ever having one this effective before (granted, it has no payload but its kerbal for now, and no circularizing burn stuff, but still).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on July 26, 2014, 10:45:30 pm
Quote from: alway on July 26, 2014, 10:21:28 pm
Is it just my imagination, or are spaceplanes a bit faster/better now? I have apparently built one capable of using a single turbojet engine which can get to 2340m/s at an altitude of around 40km. Enough to actually give it a periapsis of 10km, and an apoapsis of 75km. I don't remember ever having one this effective before (granted, it has no payload but its kerbal for now, and no circularizing burn stuff, but still).

Sounds reasonable. Thing is, it's far from a spaceplane. Once you start adding space-worthy engines, the required fuel tanks and all, the craft's weight really ramps up.

And that's not even considering payload allowances.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on July 26, 2014, 11:10:16 pm
 I have given birth to an SSTO which is actually better than my two stage plane!

Going around the world, back to the KSC and landing at the runway in 45 minutes is surprisingly fun to do. Now I just need to find a way to push this thing to Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 26, 2014, 11:59:41 pm
I've actually mostly dropped jets from my fleet. Compared to standard rockets with drop tanks and solid boosters they just aren't worth it cost wise. The only time I use them is for the "activate part at 7000m to 8000m while going 430m/s to 790m/s" contracts, though I could probably drop them from that role too if I messed with solid boosters enough.

I also discovered that .23 made it so you can change the thrust output of solid boosters while in the assembly building, so no more massive losses to air resistance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 27, 2014, 08:18:53 am
So anybody know what mods are currently up to date for .24?

Particularly interested in Interstellar of course, but would be nice to try out B9 and such now that we don't have to worry about the 4 gig thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 27, 2014, 08:49:52 am
Mods versions are fluctuating almost hourly. Good luck with that. I have my own subset that I track through subscriptions.

Interstellar is unlikely to update within the next 30 days. B9 is still a bit of an unknown. You do still have to worry about the 3.7 gig RAM limit because the x64 version is a buggier mess than the x86 version. Don't use x64 unless you have to and want more crashes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 27, 2014, 09:01:53 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 27, 2014, 08:18:53 am
So anybody know what mods are currently up to date for .24?

Particularly interested in Interstellar of course, but would be nice to try out B9 and such now that we don't have to worry about the 4 gig thing.
Near Future is reported to be working with 64bit as long as you don't use the custom tech tree. Here's your excuse to try it out instead of Interstellar. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 27, 2014, 12:48:20 pm
So the techtree crashes it? That explains it...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 27, 2014, 03:33:01 pm
Having trouble landing (space) planes.  Getting to a low altitude and moving slowly enough that I don't slam into the ground seems tricky...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 27, 2014, 03:38:21 pm
My problem is balancing them so that the center of mass doesn't move too much.  Right now I am fine on takeoff and in orbit, but when I try to land, if I turn the engine on, the whole thing loses any semblence of control..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on July 27, 2014, 06:52:44 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on July 27, 2014, 09:01:53 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 27, 2014, 08:18:53 am
So anybody know what mods are currently up to date for .24?

Particularly interested in Interstellar of course, but would be nice to try out B9 and such now that we don't have to worry about the 4 gig thing.
Near Future is reported to be working with 64bit as long as you don't use the custom tech tree. Here's your excuse to try it out instead of Interstellar. :)
Interstellar does have a working version for 0.24.2 made by  WavefunctionP (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/members/107709). The latest version is posted here (https://github.com/WaveFunctionP/KSPInterstellar/releases/tag/v0.11exp).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 27, 2014, 09:11:32 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on July 27, 2014, 03:33:01 pm
Having trouble landing (space) planes.  Getting to a low altitude and moving slowly enough that I don't slam into the ground seems tricky...
The usual problem, if your spaceplane has spaced already, is the that your COM has shifted after burning all that fuel to get to orbit. Liberal use of SAS is recommended, and using parachutes is also perfectly acceptable. You can use stock radial intakes as a poor mans air brake (or should I say you could; things may have changed), or install Firespitter and use Snjo's really nice ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 27, 2014, 09:56:16 pm
Dragchutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 27, 2014, 11:52:14 pm
Yeah; if you have trouble landing spaceplanes, parachutes are a pretty viable method. I mean, sure, it's a bit less glory than landing on the runway and all that, but practical concerns are important too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 28, 2014, 01:03:57 am
That seems likely to make your plane disintegrate if you're using FAR.

RE: Balance issues, if you have any fuel left (you should if you want to leave orbit) you can shift it to fuel tanks closer to the front of the spaceplane to make it more stable for reentry. Or you could empty the fuel tanks while building the plane so you know where the CoM is going to be, then design the wings so the CoL is always behind it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on July 28, 2014, 01:05:37 am
I found that it's quite helpful for landing spaceplanes to not have your thrust at max pretty much any time after you have returned to atmosphere.  If your plane can get up to 20000 meters and a kilometer per second before you fire up the rockets it can probably cruise below 10000 meters at half or even a quarter power. 

It's pretty obvious to reduce or maybe even cut thrust during landing, but of the two other people I know who play KSP, both seem to think they have to have thrust at full at all times to keep their plane flying.  The more speed you have when you reach the landing site the more speed you have to kill while trying to land, so while cruising back to the space center cut back on the thrust a bit, if your plane is even remotely well made it shouldn't need to be flying at mach 1 just to stay in the air.

Another thing I personally do that may be useful is I place a flag at the beginning of the runway, far enough away from it that it doesn't ask to recover the flag every time you launch but close enough to be useful.  With that flag there whenever you need to get your bearings you can just target that flag and it will bring you straight to the runway.  Then just line up the target indicator on the navball to be straight east or west of you.  Do it right and you could theoretically even land blind by just aiming your direction of travel to be just a hair above the target indicator (if coming from the west) if you had to.   
If old microsoft flight simulator has any bearing in reality it seems that actual airports do something that basically amounts to that to allow planes to land in near 0 visibility using only instruments and radio.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 28, 2014, 01:28:12 am
Scott Manley slows his planes down by "pancaking" i.e. making your underside face your direction of travel. The bigger surface area will slow you down surprisingly fast.

And thank you Leonon, will try that out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 28, 2014, 01:36:35 am
I just thought of something.  Would it be possible to deploy a drogue shoot while landing on the airstrip, or would doing so cause horrendous FUN to occur?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 28, 2014, 01:38:42 am
I tried that once. I can't remember if it just didn't deploy or if it ripped my wings off. Either way, not very productive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 28, 2014, 02:08:29 am
You have to attach it directly to the fuselage so that it doesn't cause damage when it suddenly deploys, and have to remember that stock chutes disengage automatically when you're in contact with the ground, regardless of the speed you're going at. So, good for slowing down before landing, but not actual landing.

If you're using RealChutes, however, you can easily do that, as neither of those issues apply any more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 28, 2014, 04:20:49 am
Yeah, I found that out the hard way when I tried having a parachute brake on my jet car.

Other than that, the car worked great till the first hill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 28, 2014, 05:59:02 am
Having parachutes on a plane defeats the purpose of building a plane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 28, 2014, 06:06:29 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogue_parachute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejector_seat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_flare#Military_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_mine

Spoiler: edit guff... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on July 28, 2014, 10:07:29 am
Ok now have time to play KSP, just waiting for kas and novapunch price changes (discarded waiting for remotetech few versions back - it's always last to update, shame as it should be merged into a game itself long time ago). How stable is stock 64bit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 28, 2014, 11:42:30 am
So-so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 28, 2014, 11:44:01 am
Okay, time to restart career mode with remote tech. 

Sending gravy sensor orbiters to mun and minmus, plus my 9-lander science harvestor took me from about 20% of total science to around 130%.

Now, instead of doing missions with experimental parts, I have everything unlocked and am suddenly bored.

So, next time with remote tech.  And, no more mega science harvesting missions.  Also, will require myself to immediately try to explore any celistial body that there is a mission for, with whatever parts I have at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 28, 2014, 12:01:38 pm
Gravy? What form of Gravy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 28, 2014, 12:09:58 pm
Negative gravioli gravy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on July 28, 2014, 12:57:21 pm
Quick question. Will KSP reasonably convert my 0.23.5 career game to 0.24.2? I don't want to redo all the science gathering, and restart my space program from scratch. :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 28, 2014, 01:28:01 pm
Science is easy. Do you have your vab/sph craft saved? Just rebuild. Copy those over. Challenge yourself to operate on a budget.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 28, 2014, 01:51:41 pm
my saves converted nicely, but I started over to try out career with contracts.  worth doing.

Now that you can get a bit of science from contracts, I didnt have to bother with scraping up tiny bits of easy science from local Kerbin biomes. 

Also, I suck less at orbital mechanics now, so I didn't have to do as much tedious scraping for the cheap science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on July 28, 2014, 02:05:01 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on July 28, 2014, 01:28:01 pm
Challenge yourself to operate on a budget.

That's what I'll try to be doing. I'm all about having goals, but I'm worried the budget system will enforce always using the most efficient designs if you want to stay in the green, which can get boring fast. There's really not much design leeway when it comes to absolute efficiency for a given task. I'm worried a good number of parts will be left out of the equation because they're overkill and/or there are more cost-effective alternatives.

Are the contracts dynamic enough to present less orthodox objectives every now and then, and ask for things like multi-kerbal crews, which is generally considered grossly inefficient?

Quote from: puke on July 28, 2014, 01:51:41 pm
my saves converted nicely, but I started over to try out career with contracts.  worth doing.

Now that you can get a bit of science from contracts, I didnt have to bother with scraping up tiny bits of easy science from local Kerbin biomes. 

Also, I suck less at orbital mechanics now, so I didn't have to do as much tedious scraping for the cheap science.

Good to know, thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 28, 2014, 02:31:32 pm
Yes, the contracts allow you to make the wackiest designs and staging if you're trying to do more than two in a single craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 28, 2014, 03:13:52 pm
Quote from: Greenbane on July 28, 2014, 02:05:01 pm
I'm worried the budget system will enforce always using the most efficient designs if you want to stay in the green

Nah.  You'll have some cheap and efficient designs early on, but before long you'll be rolling with over a million funds in the bank and looking at doing some "just for fun" missions or sending up some super heavy lifters with 500k boost stages.

One of my lessons learned from my first contract game - dont build too efficient or exploit only the high ROI contracts.  Else you end up with too much cash and bored.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on July 28, 2014, 03:18:07 pm
Yeah everyone I've talked to is afraid to do career because they don't want to run out of funds... and that isn't really a huge issue. Maybe if you don't savescum or revert and you explode a couple super heavy launches it might set you back, but... not much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 28, 2014, 07:27:56 pm
I am mostly waiting for my realism modset to update, then will start a career. Founding will not be an issue but still you need some planning and I hope the management part of the program to become challenging when using tac life support, remote tech, ferram and deadly reentry combo
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 28, 2014, 07:30:18 pm
If you're worried about funds, get debRefund and put a parachute on everything.  You'll usually get back 75-90% of the part value (minus the fuel) and that'll keep you in funds easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 07:37:09 pm
So the new monopropellant engines have a thrust/weight of 20/0.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on July 28, 2014, 07:45:19 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 07:37:09 pm
So the new monopropellant engines have a thrust/weight of 20/0.
20 to 0?  You mean infinite?  Doesn't that mean if you had just an engine, it would reach the speed of light instantly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 07:51:43 pm
...that's an incredible idea. Someone make a massless probe core.

EDIT: and by someone I mean me.

Code: [Select]
PART
{
name = probeCoreCubeWeightless
module = Part
author = NovaSilisko

mesh = model.mu
rescaleFactor = 1

CrewCapacity = 0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.2845967, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.2845967, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

TechRequired = advUnmanned
entryCost = 6800
cost = 600
category = Pods
subcategory = 0
title = Probodobodyne Weightless QBE
manufacturer = Probodobodyne Inc.
description = QBE is a sturdy, cubic, and absolutely lightweight probe core. It also can survive higher heat loads than its counterparts. Its simplistic shape also appeals to modern art collectors. Truly, something for everyone.

attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0

mass = 0.08
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.15
angularDrag = 1.5
crashTolerance = 30
maxTemp = 3100


PhysicsSignificance = 1

explosionPotential = 0

vesselType = Probe

MODULE
{
name = ModuleCommand
minimumCrew = 0

RESOURCE
{
name = ElectricCharge
rate = 0.02777778
}
}

RESOURCE
{
name = ElectricCharge
amount = 10
maxAmount = 10
}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleReactionWheel

PitchTorque = 0.5
YawTorque = 0.5
RollTorque = 0.5

RESOURCE
{
name = ElectricCharge
rate = 0.025
}
}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleSAS
}

}
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on July 28, 2014, 08:11:55 pm
Quote from: puke on July 28, 2014, 03:13:52 pm
Quote from: Greenbane on July 28, 2014, 02:05:01 pm
I'm worried the budget system will enforce always using the most efficient designs if you want to stay in the green

Nah.  You'll have some cheap and efficient designs early on, but before long you'll be rolling with over a million funds in the bank and looking at doing some "just for fun" missions or sending up some super heavy lifters with 500k boost stages.

One of my lessons learned from my first contract game - dont build too efficient or exploit only the high ROI contracts.  Else you end up with too much cash and bored.
Play with remote tech, kethane, interstellar thingy, orbital construction/science ( MKS/OKS ), orbital science station and stuff like that, you wont float in your money as each piece of these things can reach 200-400k and you need multiple.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on July 28, 2014, 11:19:12 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 07:51:43 pm
...that's an incredible idea. Someone make a massless probe core.

EDIT: and by someone I mean me.
What's your findings, ser?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 11:50:10 pm
Meh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on July 28, 2014, 11:50:41 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 28, 2014, 11:50:10 pm
Meh.
I take it there was both no instant light speed and no fuckHUEG explosions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 29, 2014, 12:32:36 am
I got up to 1500 g acceleration, but in terms of expectations that's infinitely disappointing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 29, 2014, 12:58:26 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMnDrLCW60&list=UUxzC4EngIsMrPmbm6Nxvb-A
Scott Manley did a good video explaining this stuff. But yes, they are massless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 29, 2014, 01:04:06 am
I was going to mention that, but thought it was done allready...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 29, 2014, 01:24:49 am
I want proper enclosed rotors so I can make this. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1524806320/hoverbike?ref=HappeningNewsletterJul2814)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 29, 2014, 01:25:26 am
Firespitter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 29, 2014, 10:17:27 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on July 29, 2014, 01:24:49 am
I want proper enclosed rotors so I can make this. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1524806320/hoverbike?ref=HappeningNewsletterJul2814)
You could do something like this: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88632.msg5041265;topicseen#msg5041265

By modding Infernal robotics rotating parts to spin faster, you can use wings to create blades that even work with FAR's reduced atmospheres so long as you create a method for countering the torque (a counter-rotating set of blades, in my case).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 05:28:23 pm
So yeah, tentatively labeling 64 bit as "unplayably buggy." Get in VAB, throw cockpit down...and it crashed. Do anything else and it crashed. Very crashy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 30, 2014, 05:38:35 pm
Odd, works fine for me. What are the details?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 30, 2014, 06:00:13 pm
I had a wierd bug after the .2 patch.  Loaded up a save and resumed a flight.  Screen went black.  Menus worked.  escaped back to space center.  screen stayed back.  quit to main, closed, re-opend the game.  Space Center worked again, but that flight had vanished from tracking.

I was going to restart anyway, so I did.  Loaded up the latest experimental of scan-sat (which seems to support this version well enough)  and the latest stable remote tech.

Discovered that with the remote tech, probe cores were not on my early research path and I didnt have much motivation to build a satelite network.  So... now I need to install Life Support to motivate myself not to use crewed missions.

First mods since before the big orange tanks were stock parts of the game, trying to take it slow.  Seems like most people that report problems have huge lists of mods that they are using, so I'm keeping it as clean as possible.


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on July 30, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 05:28:23 pm
So yeah, tentatively labeling 64 bit as "unplayably buggy." Get in VAB, throw cockpit down...and it crashed. Do anything else and it crashed. Very crashy.
Nope. I played through enough to unlock most of the stock tech tree, crashed a grand total of once. And that wasn't even a disruptive crash (enter VAB, drop a cockpit down, attach probe, crash). So yeah, non-disruptive 1 crash in like 20 hours. Not exactly unplayably buggy. Better than most release titles even.

Though doing so with mods is another story entirely (mod tech trees do not like x64 apparently; though that may also be mission related)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 30, 2014, 07:38:41 pm
I heve been playing 64bit with alot of mods, its only realitivly crashy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 08:19:13 pm
Quote from: alway on July 30, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 05:28:23 pm
So yeah, tentatively labeling 64 bit as "unplayably buggy." Get in VAB, throw cockpit down...and it crashed. Do anything else and it crashed. Very crashy.
Nope. I played through enough to unlock most of the stock tech tree, crashed a grand total of once. And that wasn't even a disruptive crash (enter VAB, drop a cockpit down, attach probe, crash). So yeah, non-disruptive 1 crash in like 20 hours. Not exactly unplayably buggy. Better than most release titles even.

Though doing so with mods is another story entirely (mod tech trees do not like x64 apparently; though that may also be mission related)

That might be it then, because I was trying to Interstellar with it.

In other news, I made an inexplicably horrible plane today. Seriously, I kept getting sideslip ON THE RUNWAY for no discernible reason. And after multiple redesigns, when it finally got in the air it was just godawfully unstable.
And then I accidently deleted everything but the cockpit and accidentally saved it. Fuck.

But yeah, I kept checking everything I could think of, CoM, CoL, CoT all looked good at first, but then I noticed something REALLY weird about my Center of Lift.
Specifically it wasn't pointing straight up. It was pointing slightly forward and somehow that wasn't caused by any of the wings so I have no idea wth was wrong.

EDIT: ok, so fixed the runway slippage after carefully looking at stock designs. The CoL pointing forward thing is apparently normal somehow.

Anyway, now I need to know how the hell you make planes not flip end over end when you switch them from atmospheric engines to "you're going to space today" engines.
Every time I do this the plane goes "Oh HELL NO! You did not just have one millisecond of not thrusting forward while your engine switched! Go back down in a spiral and crash into the water to think about what you did"
I really don't know what to do here, if I wait till I'm fully out of atmosphere where it would presumably take no issue with said switch, I get a flameout and spiral down into the water. If I switch in atmosphere, it does exactly the same thing.

BFEL cancels spaceplane: BFEL has gone berserk!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 31, 2014, 01:46:16 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 08:19:13 pm
Quote from: alway on July 30, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 05:28:23 pm
So yeah, tentatively labeling 64 bit as "unplayably buggy." Get in VAB, throw cockpit down...and it crashed. Do anything else and it crashed. Very crashy.
Nope. I played through enough to unlock most of the stock tech tree, crashed a grand total of once. And that wasn't even a disruptive crash (enter VAB, drop a cockpit down, attach probe, crash). So yeah, non-disruptive 1 crash in like 20 hours. Not exactly unplayably buggy. Better than most release titles even.

Though doing so with mods is another story entirely (mod tech trees do not like x64 apparently; though that may also be mission related)

That might be it then, because I was trying to Interstellar with it.

In other news, I made an inexplicably horrible plane today. Seriously, I kept getting sideslip ON THE RUNWAY for no discernible reason. And after multiple redesigns, when it finally got in the air it was just godawfully unstable.
And then I accidently deleted everything but the cockpit and accidentally saved it. Fuck.

But yeah, I kept checking everything I could think of, CoM, CoL, CoT all looked good at first, but then I noticed something REALLY weird about my Center of Lift.
Specifically it wasn't pointing straight up. It was pointing slightly forward and somehow that wasn't caused by any of the wings so I have no idea wth was wrong.

EDIT: ok, so fixed the runway slippage after carefully looking at stock designs. The CoL pointing forward thing is apparently normal somehow.

Anyway, now I need to know how the hell you make planes not flip end over end when you switch them from atmospheric engines to "you're going to space today" engines.
Every time I do this the plane goes "Oh HELL NO! You did not just have one millisecond of not thrusting forward while your engine switched! Go back down in a spiral and crash into the water to think about what you did"
I really don't know what to do here, if I wait till I'm fully out of atmosphere where it would presumably take no issue with said switch, I get a flameout and spiral down into the water. If I switch in atmosphere, it does exactly the same thing.

BFEL cancels spaceplane: BFEL has gone berserk!

It's hard.  Make sure your plane is stable using both the space engines and the normal engines in the atmosphere.  Try switching between both of them and making sure your plane can fly at different atmospheric levels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 31, 2014, 01:56:38 pm
Quote from: Puzzlemaker on July 31, 2014, 01:46:16 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 08:19:13 pm
Quote from: alway on July 30, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 30, 2014, 05:28:23 pm
So yeah, tentatively labeling 64 bit as "unplayably buggy." Get in VAB, throw cockpit down...and it crashed. Do anything else and it crashed. Very crashy.
Nope. I played through enough to unlock most of the stock tech tree, crashed a grand total of once. And that wasn't even a disruptive crash (enter VAB, drop a cockpit down, attach probe, crash). So yeah, non-disruptive 1 crash in like 20 hours. Not exactly unplayably buggy. Better than most release titles even.

Though doing so with mods is another story entirely (mod tech trees do not like x64 apparently; though that may also be mission related)

That might be it then, because I was trying to Interstellar with it.

In other news, I made an inexplicably horrible plane today. Seriously, I kept getting sideslip ON THE RUNWAY for no discernible reason. And after multiple redesigns, when it finally got in the air it was just godawfully unstable.
And then I accidently deleted everything but the cockpit and accidentally saved it. Fuck.

But yeah, I kept checking everything I could think of, CoM, CoL, CoT all looked good at first, but then I noticed something REALLY weird about my Center of Lift.
Specifically it wasn't pointing straight up. It was pointing slightly forward and somehow that wasn't caused by any of the wings so I have no idea wth was wrong.

EDIT: ok, so fixed the runway slippage after carefully looking at stock designs. The CoL pointing forward thing is apparently normal somehow.

Anyway, now I need to know how the hell you make planes not flip end over end when you switch them from atmospheric engines to "you're going to space today" engines.
Every time I do this the plane goes "Oh HELL NO! You did not just have one millisecond of not thrusting forward while your engine switched! Go back down in a spiral and crash into the water to think about what you did"
I really don't know what to do here, if I wait till I'm fully out of atmosphere where it would presumably take no issue with said switch, I get a flameout and spiral down into the water. If I switch in atmosphere, it does exactly the same thing.

BFEL cancels spaceplane: BFEL has gone berserk!

It's hard.  Make sure your plane is stable using both the space engines and the normal engines in the atmosphere.  Try switching between both of them and making sure your plane can fly at different atmospheric levels.
You might simply be running into a control problem. Turbojets are pretty good with the thrust vectoring, and if the engine you're switching to doesn't have that  - say an aerospike or an LV-30 - then the little offset in CoT/CoM you undoubtedly have will no longer be tolerable, as your control surfaces are rapidly losing grip on the thinning air.

You might also be drastically altering your drag profile if you have a lot of air intakes that you close - or if you have intakes on the nose of the craft that you forget to close. With a lot of intakes towards the rear the airframe will tend to "shuttlecock" and self-stabilize due to their high drag - so closing those might throw the balancing off.

Finally if you think that the little jolt between switching airbreathers and rockets is what gets you, do what I do and fire rockets first, then turn off airbreathers. The extra speed boost from the rockets will allow the airbreathers to function for a smidge longer, and you won't have such a drastic shift of acceleration.

Or just tech up and use RAPIERs. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on July 31, 2014, 04:26:12 pm
My first experience with mods:
A +kerbal engineer redux+ strikes the player in the GameData folder, adding and replacing files through the folder structure!
The player is blown backwards by the force of the blow!
The player's cursor skids along the mod list, downloading some of them!
The player installs more mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 07:36:58 am
Well I guess part of the problem there is I'm using Interstellar and attempting a thermal turbojet. This is in sandbox mode, so it has the functionality to switch from airbreathing to closed circuit but it must be done manually, unlike RAPIERS.

It DOES have the advantage that unlike stock airbreathers it can use "atmosphere" which means it requires no liquid fuel whatsoever in atmospheric mode (because its getting its "fuel" from pure thermal power of a fission reactor) however its thrust to mass is barely enough to keep the thing flying/climbing which exacerbates the getting to space issue.

As for the intakes/atmosphere scoops I'm not actually closing them at all (the scoops I don't think even HAVE a "close" function, its weird) and the only thing using intakeair is the precooler, which in Interstellar is pretty much mandatory for any plane flying above 10000 meters or so.

How exactly does one make their control surfaces er....stop controlling? Basically is there some way to keep them from TRYING to "grip the thinning air"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 01, 2014, 07:38:37 am
basically, the less air there is, the less air drag there is, and there are two good ways to increase drag: get more air or go faster

therefore you gotta turn into a hedgehog
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 08:01:02 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 07:36:58 am
How exactly does one make their control surfaces er....stop controlling? Basically is there some way to keep them from TRYING to "grip the thinning air"?
Heh, you don't. Basically, them trying to grab onto something and steer is what keeps you on course. Otherwise they are either plain lifting surfaces that create lift and drag, or plain decorations depending on how far out of the atmosphere you are.

Can you post a picture of what you're trying to fly? And does the thermal thruster have vectoring (i.e. gimbal range), and is its airbreathing-mode thrust lower than its rocket-mode's?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 01, 2014, 01:50:52 pm
If you want to increase the thrust/weight of thermal jets you can add more intakes or switch to microwave beamed power. When I tested it in KSP 0.23.5 with 64 ram air intakes and 14.853GW of beamed power I could get 4555.3kN out of one 1.25m thermal turbojet engine while stuck to the ground with launch stabilizers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 01, 2014, 02:09:46 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 08:01:02 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 07:36:58 am
How exactly does one make their control surfaces er....stop controlling? Basically is there some way to keep them from TRYING to "grip the thinning air"?
Heh, you don't. Basically, them trying to grab onto something and steer is what keeps you on course. Otherwise they are either plain lifting surfaces that create lift and drag, or plain decorations depending on how far out of the atmosphere you are.

Can you post a picture of what you're trying to fly? And does the thermal thruster have vectoring (i.e. gimbal range), and is its airbreathing-mode thrust lower than its rocket-mode's?
I think you can set an action group for 'stop controlling surfaces'.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 02:17:15 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on August 01, 2014, 02:09:46 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 08:01:02 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 07:36:58 am
How exactly does one make their control surfaces er....stop controlling? Basically is there some way to keep them from TRYING to "grip the thinning air"?
Heh, you don't. Basically, them trying to grab onto something and steer is what keeps you on course. Otherwise they are either plain lifting surfaces that create lift and drag, or plain decorations depending on how far out of the atmosphere you are.

Can you post a picture of what you're trying to fly? And does the thermal thruster have vectoring (i.e. gimbal range), and is its airbreathing-mode thrust lower than its rocket-mode's?
I think you can set an action group for 'stop controlling surfaces'.
You can turn off the surfaces, but it won't stop them affecting your plane. Turning them off will not accomplish anything except worsen your control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 01, 2014, 04:08:31 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 02:17:15 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on August 01, 2014, 02:09:46 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 08:01:02 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 07:36:58 am
How exactly does one make their control surfaces er....stop controlling? Basically is there some way to keep them from TRYING to "grip the thinning air"?
Heh, you don't. Basically, them trying to grab onto something and steer is what keeps you on course. Otherwise they are either plain lifting surfaces that create lift and drag, or plain decorations depending on how far out of the atmosphere you are.

Can you post a picture of what you're trying to fly? And does the thermal thruster have vectoring (i.e. gimbal range), and is its airbreathing-mode thrust lower than its rocket-mode's?
I think you can set an action group for 'stop controlling surfaces'.
You can turn off the surfaces, but it won't stop them affecting your plane. Turning them off will not accomplish anything except worsen your control.
Maybe he's just frustrated seeing his wings flapping when he's flying over Mun.

If you want to completely disable them and prevent their affecting your craft, separate them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on August 01, 2014, 04:39:00 pm
Whoa if you click the flag of the company your looking at a contract for it will bring up a little description of the company.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 05:13:23 pm
Pics:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 01, 2014, 08:33:23 pm
Oh gods... Guys, listen to this :THIS IS AWESOME. (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/93546126009/fanwork-fridays-duna)
Also, BFEL, what mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 10:20:32 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 05:13:23 pm
Pics:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, you... have a control problem, to put it mildly.

First of all, add large control surfaces to the main wings, and swap out the tailfins for Standard Canards.

Then, using the right-click menu: disable ALL control for the advanced canards you have in the middle pointing forward, as they will serve no practical purpose in that orientation. For the standard canards up front, disable everything but pitch. For the large control surfaces you added, do the same - pitch only. The standard canards that will replace your tailfins should be set to Yaw only.

This configuration should ensure that your plane is somewhat aerodynamically stable. If you have problems getting enough roll authority, rearrange the large and small control surfaces so that the small roll-only surfaces are on the wingtips, and the large pitch-only surfaces are closer to center.

I don't know if the thermal thruster has vectoring, but from what I see your problem is a horrible aerodynamic disbalance. The moment you try to oversteer this thing, it will go into a tumble. Less of a problem in thicker atmosphere - it probably has enough lift to make it relatively unnoticeable during takeoff, and you probably don't try to do aerobatics with it, but when you're in the final stage of leaving atmosphere, you will generally try to point your plane's nose away from your movement vector, upwards, and when you do that you will immediately lose all manner of control over your pitch.

Plus, by the way, that thing you put behind the inline docking port is an air intake. Make sure to close it when you switch to rocket mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on August 01, 2014, 10:36:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 01, 2014, 08:33:23 pm
Oh gods... Guys, listen to this :THIS IS AWESOME. (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/93546126009/fanwork-fridays-duna)
Also, BFEL, what mod?
Am i the only one who feel a tad of BattleStar Galactica vibe in that music?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 02, 2014, 12:19:03 am
Dunno, but I did hear some Firefly vibes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 02, 2014, 08:05:32 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2014, 10:20:32 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2014, 05:13:23 pm
Pics:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, you... have a control problem, to put it mildly.

First of all, add large control surfaces to the main wings, and swap out the tailfins for Standard Canards.

Then, using the right-click menu: disable ALL control for the advanced canards you have in the middle pointing forward, as they will serve no practical purpose in that orientation. For the standard canards up front, disable everything but pitch. For the large control surfaces you added, do the same - pitch only. The standard canards that will replace your tailfins should be set to Yaw only.

This configuration should ensure that your plane is somewhat aerodynamically stable. If you have problems getting enough roll authority, rearrange the large and small control surfaces so that the small roll-only surfaces are on the wingtips, and the large pitch-only surfaces are closer to center.

I don't know if the thermal thruster has vectoring, but from what I see your problem is a horrible aerodynamic disbalance. The moment you try to oversteer this thing, it will go into a tumble. Less of a problem in thicker atmosphere - it probably has enough lift to make it relatively unnoticeable during takeoff, and you probably don't try to do aerobatics with it, but when you're in the final stage of leaving atmosphere, you will generally try to point your plane's nose away from your movement vector, upwards, and when you do that you will immediately lose all manner of control over your pitch.

Plus, by the way, that thing you put behind the inline docking port is an air intake. Make sure to close it when you switch to rocket mode.
Will try these first chance I get, but what exactly does this accomplish? I mean how do I master aerodynamic balancing on my own? Right now the CoL is right inside the CoM ball as is, and I don't know what my Col/CoM/CoT SHOULD look like. ((I forgot to put up a pic with those in there))

I knew enough to disable the advanced canards beforehand at least :P, but the "air intake" behind the docking port was changed to a precooler in Interstellar. Which means it does still have some air intake, but it also has atmosphere intake and more importantly is basically required for higher altitude flight ((it messes with air intake to not have one, will have to do science with it closed))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 02, 2014, 08:45:22 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 02, 2014, 08:05:32 am
Will try these first chance I get, but what exactly does this accomplish? I mean how do I master aerodynamic balancing on my own? Right now the CoL is right inside the CoM ball as is, and I don't know what my Col/CoM/CoT SHOULD look like. ((I forgot to put up a pic with those in there))

I knew enough to disable the advanced canards beforehand at least :P, but the "air intake" behind the docking port was changed to a precooler in Interstellar. Which means it does still have some air intake, but it also has atmosphere intake and more importantly is basically required for higher altitude flight ((it messes with air intake to not have one, will have to do science with it closed))
Basically, your center of lift should be behind your center of mass for stable flight. Center of lift close to center of mass is an "unstable" craft - it will fly, but it will do so with all the grace of a sheet of plywood in a hurricane - it will spin easily, and you will need concentrated effort to keep it flying where you need it to. Center of lift ahead of center of mass is what's normally called "unflyable" - it will always try to make the "ahead" become the "behind".

And it's always a good idea to keep at least two thirds of your control surfaces towards the back. As the plane empties its fuel, the center of mass will tend to shift backwards, and any control surfaces in the front will tend to start oversteering and flipping you out without some control authority towards the back to balance them out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 02, 2014, 09:23:51 am
Ok, so taking your advice helped, but !!SCIENCE!! revealed some new problems.

Specifically two facts emerged: 1. I didn't need that damned precooler at all ((it apparently only counts for normal intakeair using engines, not "atmosphere" burning thermal ones))
and
2. The thermal turbojet, while putting out a nice stable 120 newtons of thrust in atmospheric mode, puts out a dismal EIGHT newtons of thrust in closed-circuit liquid mode. And while it has 1.00 thrust vectoring, 8 thrust is too little to even put the now perfectly stable nose pointing upward, let alone reach orbit with it.

So apparently this design, while a great supersonic jet, is not going to go to space today, or probably ever.

Maybe if I retrofit it with a fusion reactor it will give some better thrust ((thermal stuff is dependent on the reactor you pair it with)) but that also means I will need some way to throw in a few Megawatts to jump start said reactor.

Well, at least I learned things today. Thanks Sean!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 02, 2014, 04:53:15 pm
Just pay attention to the thermal ratings of each reactor. You pay attention to megajoulles for transmitted power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 02, 2014, 10:58:34 pm
Oh god I sound nasally as fuck why did I mumble while recording this.

Anyways I made a missile, heres a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfXCkjMsoBY&feature=youtu.be).

Heres the guidance code, which is horrible and ugly since I have yet to get around to optimizing/beutifying it.

Code: (horrible spaghetti code) [Select]
stage.
lock steering to up + R(0,0,180).

print "Ascending.".

wait until ship:solidfuel < 1316.
stage.

wait until ship:solidfuel < 466.
stage.

print "Clearing spent booster due to collision hazard.".
print "Waiting for optimal boost altitude.".

wait until ship:altitude > 60000.

lock steering to target:velocity:orbit - ship:velocity:orbit.
wait 3.
stage.

print "Killing relative velocity.".

until target:velocity:orbit:mag - ship:velocity:orbit:mag < 50
{
lock steering to target:velocity:orbit - ship:velocity:orbit.
wait 1.
}

print "Accelerating towards target.".

lock steering to target:position.

wait until ship:solidfuel < 1.

stage.


set relvel to ship:velocity:orbit - target:velocity:orbit.

//set ship relative vectors
lock shipx to ship:facing * V(1,0,0).
lock shipy to ship:facing * V(0,1,0).
lock shipz to ship:facing * V(0,0,1).

lock relvel to ship:velocity:orbit - target:velocity:orbit.


set xvel to vdot(relvel,shipx).
set yvel to vdot(relvel,shipy).


//if it might not be able to kill the lateral velocity in time
//with just two rcs ports
lock latvel to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

if latvel:mag > 100
{
  print "Making rapid course corrections.".
  lock steering to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

  wait 3.
  set SAS to true.
  set RCS to true.

  set ship:control:fore to -1.
  until latvel:mag < 50
  {
    lock latvel to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

    set forward to ship:facing.
    if vang(forward:vector, latvel) > 5 //in degrees
    {
      //if shit is fucked then fire up the good ol autopilot
    set SAS to false.
    set RCS to false.
    }
     else
    {
     //if not then back to ye olde SAS and start linear translation again
     set SAS to true.
     set RCS to true.
    }
      wait 0.1.
   }
   set ship:control:fore to 0.
}

set SAS to false.
set RCS to false.

print "Making coarse course corrections.".

lock steering to target:position.

wait 2.

set SAS to true.
set RCS to true.

until target:position:mag < 20000
{
//lock steering to target:position.

set xvel to vdot(relvel,shipx).
set yvel to vdot(relvel,shipy).

  //keep velocity within certain tolerances
  if (xvel > 2)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to -1.
  }
  else
  {
  if (xvel < -2)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to 1.
  }
  else
  {
    //but avoid constantly running rcs at max
    set ship:control:starboard to 0.
  }
  }

  //keep velocity within certain tolerances
  if (yvel > 2)
  {
    set ship:control:top to -1.
  }
  else
  {
  if (yvel < -2)
  {
    set ship:control:top to 1.
  }
  else
  {
    //but avoid constantly running rcs at max
    set ship:control:top to 0.
  }
  }
  set forward to ship:facing.
  set forvel to vdot(relvel,forward:vector).

  //if too slow speed up, if too fast slow down
  if forvel < 500
  {
    set ship:control:fore to 1.
  }
  else
  {
  if forvel > 600
  {
    set ship:control:fore to -1.
  }
  else
  {
    set ship:control:fore to 0.
  }
  }

  //periodically adjust heading
  //this will end up being the heading used for fine adjustments
  lock steering to target:position.
  if vang(forward:vector, target:position) > 0.7 //in degrees
  {
    //if shit is fucked then fire up the good ol autopilot
    set SAS to false.
    set RCS to false.
  }
  else
  {
    //if not then back to ye olde SAS and start linear translation again
    set SAS to true.
    set RCS to true.
  }
  //if this convoluted shit isnt done then RCS will harmonically overcorrect
  //until craft spins out of control


  wait 0.1.
}


print "Making fine course corrections.".


//clean up after the coarse adjustments, dont want to back away from tgt or something
set SAS to true.
set RCS to true.
set ship:control:fore to 0.

until sqrt(xvel*xvel + yvel*yvel) < 0.1
{

//rock back and fourth over 0 at very low thrust, should be pretty accurate
//this is generally a lot lighter than coarse to make it run faster

  set latvel to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

//compute velocity components in direction of thrusters
  set xvel to vdot(latvel,shipx).
  set yvel to vdot(latvel,shipy).
  set zvel to vdot(latvel,shipz).

  print "x: " + xvel.
  print "y: " + yvel.
  print "z: " + zvel.
  if (xvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to -0.2.
  }
  else
  {
  if (xvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to 0.2.
  }
  }

  if (yvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to -0.2.
  }
  else
  {
  if (yvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to 0.2.
  }
  }

  if (zvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to -0.2.
  }
  else
  {
  if (zvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to 0.2.
  }
  }
  wait 0.1.
}


//ultra guidance
print "Making ultra-fine course corrections.".


until latvel:mag < 0.05
{

//rock back and fourth over 0 at very low thrust, should be pretty accurate
//this is generally a lot lighter than coarse to make it run faster

  set latvel to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

//compute velocity components in direction of thrusters
  set xvel to vdot(latvel,shipx).
  set yvel to vdot(latvel,shipy).
  set zvel to vdot(latvel,shipz).

  print "x: " + xvel.
  print "y: " + yvel.
  print "z: " + zvel.
  if (xvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to -0.1.
  }
  else
  {
  if (xvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to 0.1.
  }
  }

  if (yvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to -0.1.
  }
  else
  {
  if (yvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to 0.1.
  }
  }

  if (zvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to -0.1.
  }
  else
  {
  if (zvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to 0.1.
  }
  }
  wait 0.1.
}


//Uber guidance
print "Making uber-fine course corrections.".

until target:position:mag < 1
{
  set latvel to vxcl(target:position,relvel).

//compute velocity components in direction of thrusters
  set xvel to vdot(latvel,shipx).
  set yvel to vdot(latvel,shipy).
  set zvel to vdot(latvel,shipz).

  print "x: " + xvel.
  print "y: " + yvel.
  print "z: " + zvel.
  if (xvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to -0.03.
  }
  else
  {
  if (xvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:starboard to 0.03.
  }
  }

  if (yvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to -0.03.
  }
  else
  {
  if (yvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:top to 0.03.
  }
  }

    if (zvel > 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to -0.03.
  }
  else
  {
  if (zvel < 0)
  {
    set ship:control:fore to 0.03.
  }
  }
  wait 0.01.
}
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 02, 2014, 11:00:23 pm
Kos!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 03, 2014, 12:15:33 am
The video is finally up, in all its awkwardly worded glory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 03, 2014, 12:59:18 am
You meanie, you took an idea I had and never coded and coded it.

Although, you want the missile to be going as fast as it can when it hits the target, although that sorta breaks the game's physics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 03, 2014, 01:26:42 am
Yeah, it actually needs slo-mo to reliably collide.  I have had only the rear fuel tank hit the target in real time, otherwise it will kinda skip through it between simulation ticks since its going so fast.  Would work better with larger targets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 03, 2014, 02:17:25 am
kOS uses until instead of while?
Uuugh :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 03, 2014, 02:59:33 am
Until and While are two entirely different, and non-mutually exclusive statements. Why would you assume the language has one but not the other?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 03, 2014, 03:55:01 am
Because I have never seen until before and both are just not(the other)?
It just seems weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 03, 2014, 04:14:19 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 03, 2014, 03:55:01 am
Because I have never seen until before and both are just not(the other)?
It just seems weird.

It makes reading the statement easier. "wait while not fuel is less than X" is harder to process than "wait until fuel is less than X", and doesn't cost anything to add, so why not?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 03, 2014, 09:59:06 am
That missile couldn't hit my new plane. Granted it looks like the missle isn't intended to hit things in atmosphere, but nevertheless :P

Yeah, made the Atomic Flyer V4 ((Actually something like V97 with all the small tweaks and fixes I needed to do :P)) with beamed power and it can go between 3 and 4 hundred m/s at "almost colliding with the ground" level. I made this one minimalist as possible, so the CoL isn't QUITE far enough behind the CoM for it to be fully stable, but it works hilariously well until you try and land it.

Also because beamed power is just so hilarious for thrust to mass ratio's this one reaches space (though it can't get fully orbital).
I gave up on the "self sufficient" part of their design in exchange for a ultrafast nimble bird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 03, 2014, 10:32:59 am
Beamed power receivers need to be heavier and have their collision boxes tightened up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 03, 2014, 12:57:31 pm
I plan on making an atmospheric missile once my current one gains the ability to engage maneuvering targets.

That being said, that aircraft sounds like an incredibly difficult kill.  Id enjoy trying to hit it.


Also, kOS doesnt have while.  They are kinda hipstery but im stuck with them until jebnix or something comes out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 03, 2014, 03:10:55 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have a contract to test a poodle while landed, a mainsail while flying and a KR-1x2 suborbitally.

EVERYTHING IS BACKWARDS

I replaced the OKTO with an mk1 cockpit because unmanned flight would not do this monstrosity justice.


E:
Not entirely unexpectedly, the poodles are not enough to take off

E2: I added 8 of the largest boosters, that seems to work
eventually i'll do this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on August 03, 2014, 08:43:24 pm
I once had to do a mission in which I had to test a skipper while landed, a mainsail in flight and a KR-1x2 on orbit.
sadly, the skipper turned out not to be quite powerful enough and I had to activate the mainsail early. Called it a day and ran a second mission for the mainsail test, however. It probably costed less than building an huge rocket with such badly staged engines.

It still left me with a question: Why test a booster stage in orbit? They shouldn't get in orbit in normal use and their inhability to be in upper stages of a rocket makes them particularly unsuitable for orbital operations anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 03, 2014, 08:56:02 pm
I just ignore "test X in flight" missions. I'll do them if its a "test X while landed" and occasionally if its an in-orbit one that's not completely retarded, but for the most part the test in flight ones are just so ungodly finicky its easier to design a Munar lander ((and I am almost notoriously terrible with those)) then it is to find the PRECISE staging to get a certain altitude/speed combination.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on August 03, 2014, 09:08:03 pm
 There is a way to 'cheat' the "test x in flight" contracts. You only count as activating a part by staging into it (unless it has a RMB menu test button) so you can actually use a part by manually activating it (RMB menu) and test it by staging into it later.

I'm not sure that makes any sense. Very tired.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 03, 2014, 09:15:02 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on August 03, 2014, 09:08:03 pm
There is a way to 'cheat' the "test x in flight" contracts. You only count as activating a part by staging into it (unless it has a RMB menu test button) so you can actually use a part by manually activating it (RMB menu) and test it by staging into it later.

I'm not sure that makes any sense. Very tired.

It does, but it still doesn't help when you get "test X at 10000-12000m at 860m/s" or something silly like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 03, 2014, 09:23:11 pm
PTW because just bought the game and got it installed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 03, 2014, 09:42:11 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 03, 2014, 08:56:02 pm
I just ignore "test X in flight" missions. I'll do them if its a "test X while landed" and occasionally if its an in-orbit one that's not completely retarded, but for the most part the test in flight ones are just so ungodly finicky its easier to design a Munar lander ((and I am almost notoriously terrible with those)) then it is to find the PRECISE staging to get a certain altitude/speed combination.
Yep. The ones in space are nice because they can give really good science. Several hundred science just for getting to kerbin escape velocity? Yes pls.

In-atmosphere, where you need to specially design a craft to hit a certain altitude at a certain velocity, and stay there long enough to react? For 50 science? Hells naw.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 03, 2014, 09:48:27 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on August 03, 2014, 09:08:03 pm
There is a way to 'cheat' the "test x in flight" contracts. You only count as activating a part by staging into it (unless it has a RMB menu test button) so you can actually use a part by manually activating it (RMB menu) and test it by staging into it later.

I think they all have the "run test" option, so even if you activate an engine through staging, you can still use the run test function to complete it.  You can also re-arrange the staging sequence in-flight.

I had a line of tests setup where I was testing various parts in flight, on suborbital trajectories, and one on an escape velocity.  The escape velocity one was one of the super long NASA solid boosters, and there was no economical way to get it up there without using it.  I think I used the manual activation method for this one.

I'm trying not to do that kind of stuff so blatantly any more.  Being my second .24.x career, I'm less worried about staying flush and making science.  Since I've just crashed my second remote-tech probe into the Mun, so far not-staying-flush is pretty easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 04, 2014, 02:38:00 pm
You can add a new stage while in flight. If you add it to the bottom you can stage through it and stage activate your already stage activated engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on August 04, 2014, 03:16:03 pm
Or, as puke said, just right-click and press "Run test".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2014, 03:26:46 pm
Quote from: Leonon on August 04, 2014, 02:38:00 pm
You can add a new stage while in flight. If you add it to the bottom you can stage through it and stage activate your already stage activated engines.

Oh, that's a good trick! I figured that wouldn't work since the part was already activated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 04, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
Run test works on the more advanced later tech engines but not the first couple.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 04, 2014, 03:36:50 pm
Anybody have pointers for landing on vacuum planetoids with RemoteTech?  I'm having a super hard time with this, keep crashing into the Mun.

I'm trying to do it with maneuver nodes, but maybe I should just use a long-duration burn to retrograde from the flight computer?  I'm not using any other control enhancing mods like mechajeb or similar - just remotetech2, TAC life support, and scansat.

I know, on the Mun I should just be able to do it by hand since signal delay is so low - but I'm trying to use this as a proving ground for future missions to more exotic locales.  Also, trying to learn how to preprogram things so that I dont have to build local comms infrastructure to cover the far side of planetoids before launching a serious landing operation.

The only tutorials or video's I've found are featuring landings on bodies with an atmosphere using parachutes, or are hand-controlled over low latency links.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 04, 2014, 04:03:17 pm
...Is the mun tidal-locked?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 04, 2014, 04:13:09 pm
Quote from: Pufferfish on August 04, 2014, 04:03:17 pm
...Is the mun tidal-locked?
Yup
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 04, 2014, 04:37:28 pm
Sweet. Means I can plant some pseudo-retro-reflectors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
you said i couldnt do it
but i did it
i brought this thing to a suborbital trajectory
and i even did a powered landing.


E:
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 05, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Do nosecones have a function now? 

How many contracts did you complete with that flight?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 05, 2014, 02:17:43 pm
Uh. Miauw, what exactly did you make there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:22:02 pm
Quote from: puke on August 05, 2014, 02:14:58 pm
Do nosecones have a function now? 

How many contracts did you complete with that flight?
4 Contracts.
Poodle/radial while landed, mainsail in flight, KR in sub-orbit.

And I'm using FAR, so nosecones have a function.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 05, 2014, 02:37:48 pm
Nosecones have slight function in the basegame aswell, reduces drag...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 05, 2014, 02:40:11 pm
I respect a man that slaps a "ground test" part on a rocket, and then goes on to fly the thing anyway.

I take it then that nosecones need mods to be useful, and are still worthless in stock? 

Does it mater yet if you stack parts in a row?  Some of the drag effects I get (particularly on re-entry but sometimes when launching at high speed in upper atmosphere) suggest that drag for parallel parts is being modeled, but its hard to tell.  might just be because of a higher total drag*mass on that end of the rocket?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 05, 2014, 02:45:39 pm
Hm. Wonder if there's a way to mod in parts to make, say, a fighter jet such that the munitions would damage other plane parts. I mean, the physics is basically there already.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 05, 2014, 02:53:37 pm
Quote from: puke on August 05, 2014, 02:40:11 pm
I respect a man that slaps a "ground test" part on a rocket, and then goes on to fly the thing anyway.

I take it then that nosecones need mods to be useful, and are still worthless in stock? 

Does it mater yet if you stack parts in a row?  Some of the drag effects I get (particularly on re-entry but sometimes when launching at high speed in upper atmosphere) suggest that drag for parallel parts is being modeled, but its hard to tell.  might just be because of a higher total drag*mass on that end of the rocket?
I built a small jet for traveling around on one tank of gas and grabbing science.  I made it with the MK 1 cockpit and it worked fine (the pointed one).  I took the same jet, and replaced the cockpit with a probe core (the blunt octagonal one) and it was extremely unstable.  Even with COM/COL factored, and the VERY strong SAS I was using for this size of vessel, the blunted nose seemed to make the aerodynamics unusable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 05, 2014, 02:54:27 pm
Done by atleast three mods, Skillful, BD's Armory and Lazor weapons pack.

-Edit-
Frickin ninja
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 05, 2014, 03:08:29 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on August 05, 2014, 02:53:37 pm
the blunted nose seemed to make the aerodynamics unusable.

Interesting.  The Wiki says that it does not reduce drag (as of some versions ago) but as of .22 nosecones make crafts "more stable in atmosphere".. Which suggests that there is no fuel savings, just stability enhancements?

Do the mods refactor the drag model based on... i dont know, cross section or silhouette?  Or do they just give the nosecones some sort of negative drag?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 05, 2014, 05:36:47 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
E:
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.

Ctrl+click?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 05, 2014, 07:30:31 pm
Quote from: Putnam on August 05, 2014, 05:36:47 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
E:
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.

Ctrl+click?
*Alt

Also, Space Bananas (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89570-Banana-for-Scale-Analyse-bananas-in-space!?p=1331883#post1331883).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 05, 2014, 08:56:33 pm
*alt + rightclick
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 05, 2014, 09:37:29 pm
Thus the question mark :P I knew it was vanilla, just forgot which modifier key it was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on August 05, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.
TAC Areospace fuel balancer. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25823-0-23-TAC-Fuel-Balancer-v2-3-22Dec) It's essential.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 05, 2014, 10:29:42 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on August 05, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.
TAC Areospace fuel balancer. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25823-0-23-TAC-Fuel-Balancer-v2-3-22Dec) It's essential.

Yup. Still works in .24. Also game breaking sorta as it does what stock parts won't do to some extent which is move some fuel across docking ports.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 05:25:43 am
Quote from: BigD145 on August 05, 2014, 10:29:42 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on August 05, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.
TAC Areospace fuel balancer. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25823-0-23-TAC-Fuel-Balancer-v2-3-22Dec) It's essential.

Yup. Still works in .24. Also game breaking sorta as it does what stock parts won't do to some extent which is move some fuel across docking ports.
Thanks, that's the thing I wanted. Refueling stations aren't going to be very useful without it :V

E:
Spoiler: welp (click to show/hide)

You can't tell by the image, but I was spinning uncontrollably.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on August 06, 2014, 10:29:25 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 05:25:43 am
Quote from: BigD145 on August 05, 2014, 10:29:42 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on August 05, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 05, 2014, 02:03:31 pm
BTW, I remember there being a mod that allowed you to transfer resources between parts of your ship easily, but I forgot the name.
TAC Areospace fuel balancer. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25823-0-23-TAC-Fuel-Balancer-v2-3-22Dec) It's essential.

Yup. Still works in .24. Also game breaking sorta as it does what stock parts won't do to some extent which is move some fuel across docking ports.
Thanks, that's the thing I wanted. Refueling stations aren't going to be very useful without it :V

E:
Spoiler: welp (click to show/hide)

You can't tell by the image, but I was spinning uncontrollably.
I found out with control surface if you dont decrease their max angle in the VAB they tend to make your ship do crazy stuff at some point due to *resonation* Max attack i give them is about 5-6 instead of the whole 15
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 10:33:46 am
The problem isn't resonation, my ship just seems to topple over whenever I put heavy things on top and the incontrollable spinning is an attempt to stop that.
Hmmmm.
I wish I had gimballed boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 06, 2014, 11:21:39 am
heavy things on top is part of your problem, but you also have a flexibility issue there, too.  Slap on some struts to tie the wide bulges together and reinforce that one skinny connection point where it is bending. 

I have made some top heavy designs also (9x lander carriers) and one of the keys is rigidity.  And a little RCS does not hurt to get through the atmosphere, but I usually fly without it.

If you have SAS or other control on the top, and a skinny little neck, then it will bend your rocket instead of steering your rocket.  the air resistance will tend to bend your rocket on its own, if you are at all less than perfect in your balance.  even with gimbaled engines.

Those tips about limiting control surfaces, I would have never thought of that.  Sounds totally reasonable, will have to try it out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 06, 2014, 11:59:47 am
strut strut strut strut.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 06, 2014, 12:33:15 pm
NO.

He must learn to pilot the S.S. Wet Noodle before he can go to space. It is now required.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 12:37:59 pm
I HAVE lots of struts.
But I did put some SAS on top because I thought it would help, maybe I should remove that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 06, 2014, 12:46:59 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 12:37:59 pm
I HAVE lots of struts.

But not in the right place.  Maybe it is the resolution of the image, but it looks like everything is connected through that docking clamp.  and that docking clamp is not reinforced.

I'd take those lateral fuel bulbs that are above and below the docking clamps, and run some struts between them.  That would create a rigid large-diameter reinforcement, and probably stop the bending.  Then you would not need to remove the top SAS -- though it may still be a cause for spinning.

I think the best SAS is kept near your center of mass, though this is tricky when you have a lot of staging going on.  SAS at the top probably has more leverage, but can be a stability issue sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 12:56:31 pm
I gave up on that design of payload, instead opting for half an orange tank. It still happens, even though I've strutted basically everything on that neck.

Anyway, it's not really the problem. The problem is the spinning in the first place. However, if I turn off the roll on the flaps the rocket slowly topples over to the left, which is the wrong direction. I will now try to turn the entire rocket around so it topples in the right direction.

E: Fuck it, I'm building a new lifter.

E2:
UUUUHH
UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH
(http://img.ie/cwzos.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 06, 2014, 02:58:19 pm
Too top heavy. Try to switch things around even if you need a rebuild.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on August 06, 2014, 03:01:52 pm
Wait, so where is the control part?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 03:04:07 pm
I'm being a little cheaty and using MechJeb as the control part (hence the fucked up navball in the picture, I put it on the bottom of the rockomax adapter). It's surprisingly stable, but the LV-909 just isn't enough to get it into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 06, 2014, 03:16:57 pm
are you using asparagus fuel flow?  slap on an additional stage of solids, and/or some radial solids?

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2014, 03:18:30 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 03:04:07 pm
I'm being a little cheaty and using MechJeb as the control part (hence the fucked up navball in the picture, I put it on the bottom of the rockomax adapter). It's surprisingly stable, but the LV-909 just isn't enough to get it into orbit.
I'd say that that's the problem, or a part of it. SAS is less likely to work properly if it's not controlling the right axes. (what's the plural of "axis", anyway? I've been using "axes" since that seems to make grammatic sense, but what's the actual plural form?)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 06, 2014, 04:31:51 pm
Axies?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on August 06, 2014, 04:41:58 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2014, 03:18:30 pm
(what's the plural of "axis", anyway? I've been using "axes" since that seems to make grammatic sense, but what's the actual plural form?)

Yup.  Axes.  ("Aks-ease" as opposed to "aks-iss").
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 06, 2014, 04:57:06 pm
There is a dwarf joke in there somewhere, I know it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on August 06, 2014, 07:02:23 pm
Quote from: puke on August 06, 2014, 04:57:06 pm
There is a dwarf joke in there somewhere, I know it.

Lewis Carroll did it first.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 06, 2014, 09:13:19 pm
Quote from: puke on August 06, 2014, 04:57:06 pm
There is a dwarf joke in there somewhere, I know it.
If you're piloting a proper dwarven spacecraft, your axes should be flying around everywhere, once you hit about 10km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 06, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
My new set of mods for the latest version seems to be causing issues. They can range from minor annoyances like the UI spazzing out whenever I deploy a new comsat, to potential disasters like things staging out of sequence. I've lost several kerbals to these bugs in my career game.

The major culprits seem to be B9 and remote tech. I think remote tech is causing the aforementioned UI and staging issues. On the other hand, B9 parts randomly cause craft to get their cost set to NaN and lose their CoM marker. I think they also have some glitch aerodynamics since my attempts at making an early SSTO for deploying satellites have resulted in planes unable to take off even when their CoL is in front of their CoM. I guess I shouldn't just pile on compatibility patches from random people and expect them to work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 06, 2014, 10:41:33 pm
I've got no problems with RemoteTech2.  Running Build 32.  Staging is fine, even if I drag thing around to rearrange my stages mid-flight.

I've got it combined with TAC Life Support and ScanSat.

Build 47 was just released and is a release candidate for 1.4.1... so maybe I should update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 06, 2014, 10:55:16 pm
B9 has at least two dll's that haven't been updated in months.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 06, 2014, 11:24:43 pm
I am aware, which is why I used someone's compatibility pack which supposedly included everything required to make it work with the latest version, as well as a .cfg file to fix the part prices. Evidently something still isn't working correctly. I probably should have gone through the steps to make B9 compatible on my own but laziness got the best of me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on August 06, 2014, 11:56:16 pm
From what I'm aware it has everything needed to work with the 'current version' 2 versions ago.  I wasn't aware the update was updated to the newest one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 07, 2014, 03:55:56 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on August 06, 2014, 03:18:30 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 06, 2014, 03:04:07 pm
I'm being a little cheaty and using MechJeb as the control part (hence the fucked up navball in the picture, I put it on the bottom of the rockomax adapter). It's surprisingly stable, but the LV-909 just isn't enough to get it into orbit.
I'd say that that's the problem, or a part of it. SAS is less likely to work properly if it's not controlling the right axes. (what's the plural of "axis", anyway? I've been using "axes" since that seems to make grammatic sense, but what's the actual plural form?)
I moved the mechjeb thingie to be in a proper orientation. And this new lifter doesn't have any of the problems of the old one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mono124 on August 07, 2014, 05:00:59 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 06, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
My new set of mods for the latest version seems to be causing issues. They can range from minor annoyances like the UI spazzing out whenever I deploy a new comsat, to potential disasters like things staging out of sequence. I've lost several kerbals to these bugs in my career game.

The major culprits seem to be B9 and remote tech. I think remote tech is causing the aforementioned UI and staging issues. On the other hand, B9 parts randomly cause craft to get their cost set to NaN and lose their CoM marker. I think they also have some glitch aerodynamics since my attempts at making an early SSTO for deploying satellites have resulted in planes unable to take off even when their CoL is in front of their CoM. I guess I shouldn't just pile on compatibility patches from random people and expect them to work.
This happens to me without using B9 or Remote Tech. What other mods are you using?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 07, 2014, 06:52:05 am
Am I the only person who has ALWAYS had problems with B9, regardless of new versions or etc.?

I downloaded it back before the ARM update and only got like 5 parts out of the thing, none of which I think were actual aerodynamic stuffs :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 07, 2014, 10:48:24 am
Quote from: Mono124 on August 07, 2014, 05:00:59 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 06, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
My new set of mods for the latest version seems to be causing issues. They can range from minor annoyances like the UI spazzing out whenever I deploy a new comsat, to potential disasters like things staging out of sequence. I've lost several kerbals to these bugs in my career game.

The major culprits seem to be B9 and remote tech. I think remote tech is causing the aforementioned UI and staging issues. On the other hand, B9 parts randomly cause craft to get their cost set to NaN and lose their CoM marker. I think they also have some glitch aerodynamics since my attempts at making an early SSTO for deploying satellites have resulted in planes unable to take off even when their CoL is in front of their CoM. I guess I shouldn't just pile on compatibility patches from random people and expect them to work.
This happens to me without using B9 or Remote Tech. What other mods are you using?

Tons of things: FAR, TAC life support, Scansat, spaceplane+, RealChute, Infernal Robotics, DebRefund, Environmental Visual Enhancements and probably some other stuff I forgot.

I just said B9 and Remote tech because they seemed like the most likely culprits. Which problems do we have in common?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 07, 2014, 10:58:35 am
You guys/gals are using the one updated on July 29th? http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/220473-b9-aerospace-repack Are you using the newest Firespitter dll?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 07, 2014, 11:04:25 am
Quote from: BigD145 on August 07, 2014, 10:58:35 am
You guys/gals are using the one updated on July 29th? http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/220473-b9-aerospace-repack Are you using the newest Firespitter dll?

Yes I was using that. Is there a more recent Firespitter dll? I think I will just go through the steps of updating B9 myself and see if that fixes some of the issues.

Edit: Okay, re-installing seems to have fixed the pricing issues at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 07, 2014, 12:07:37 pm
Just check thelast 5 pages or so at the ksp forums. I've been away from ksp for a good 2 weeks. Just getting updated myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 07, 2014, 03:30:00 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 07, 2014, 10:48:24 am
Quote from: Mono124 on August 07, 2014, 05:00:59 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 06, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
My new set of mods for the latest version seems to be causing issues. They can range from minor annoyances like the UI spazzing out whenever I deploy a new comsat, to potential disasters like things staging out of sequence. I've lost several kerbals to these bugs in my career game.

The major culprits seem to be B9 and remote tech. I think remote tech is causing the aforementioned UI and staging issues. On the other hand, B9 parts randomly cause craft to get their cost set to NaN and lose their CoM marker. I think they also have some glitch aerodynamics since my attempts at making an early SSTO for deploying satellites have resulted in planes unable to take off even when their CoL is in front of their CoM. I guess I shouldn't just pile on compatibility patches from random people and expect them to work.
This happens to me without using B9 or Remote Tech. What other mods are you using?

Tons of things: FAR, TAC life support, Scansat, spaceplane+, RealChute, Infernal Robotics, DebRefund, Environmental Visual Enhancements and probably some other stuff I forgot.

I just said B9 and Remote tech because they seemed like the most likely culprits. Which problems do we have in common?
So wait, are FAR and TAC updated for the new version? :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 08, 2014, 02:23:18 am
Yes, they're both working for me in the latest version.

I was just messing around with some things when an unusual sight from the runway caught my eye.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That speck slightly to the right of my jet is Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on August 08, 2014, 02:30:29 am
I had that happen too.  It's actually really neat.  (Also kinda annoying if yer engines can't generate electricity and yer depending on solar panels for SAS :P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 08, 2014, 04:10:32 am
Can we ever get a view of minumus eclipsing the Mun eclipsing Kerbin, all eclipsing Kerbol?
Because that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 08, 2014, 08:14:08 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 08, 2014, 04:10:32 am
Can we ever get a view of minumus eclipsing the Mun eclipsing Kerbin, all eclipsing Kerbol?
Because that would be awesome.

Go ask Scott Manley. He probably knows the exact position and game date where that happens just off the top of his head :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 09, 2014, 07:50:55 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 08, 2014, 08:14:08 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 08, 2014, 04:10:32 am
Can we ever get a view of minumus eclipsing the Mun eclipsing Kerbin, all eclipsing Kerbol?
Because that would be awesome.

Go ask Scott Manley. He probably knows the exact position and game date where that happens just off the top of his head :P
Though it should be possible to calculate exactly when every eclipse will be.
I have idea how you would so that but it should be doable. If it's possible IRL then it's possible in a simulation that is an awful lot simpler.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 09, 2014, 09:12:25 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 08, 2014, 04:10:32 am
Can we ever get a view of minumus eclipsing the Mun eclipsing Kerbin, all eclipsing Kerbol?
Because that would be awesome.

No, because minmus is outside mun orbit, duh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on August 09, 2014, 09:45:26 am
I don't think it's possible.  Minmus is on a tilted orbit, and I don't think that tilt lets it line up with the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on August 09, 2014, 10:32:44 am
Sure it is. It's just less often.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on August 09, 2014, 11:29:43 am
Even the most eccentric orbit of a single body must at least twice line up with any other orbit that body is involved in, whether it's something orbiting that body or something that body is orbiting.

It could easily take quite a while if you've got a lot of orbits that don't have harmonic frequencies (or could, potentially, be impossible if they are almost harmonic but don't actually line up with one another) but it's nearly always possible given that harmonic orbits are extremely rare.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2014, 12:27:16 pm
"At least" is more like "either exactly twice or all the time"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 09, 2014, 12:34:02 pm
Just in case people haven't seen it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88445-0-24-2-Fine-Print-v0-54a-Bug-Fixes-Balancing-Satellite-Deployment-%28August-8%29
More missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 09, 2014, 07:16:31 pm
You know its a good mod when your first reaction is "oh, the devs did an update already?"

Anyway, I just discovered the best thing. I no longer have to reposition all those toolbars in every new save! WOOTS.

EDIT: Ok, I think I have officially failed KSP. Down to 3000 kerbucks, lost Jeb on the first flight, then lost Bill and Bob to other shenanigans with a cursed test craft. Did I mention I haven't reached orbit yet?

Yeah, FAR is REALLY hardcore on IRONKERBAL mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 09, 2014, 10:45:38 pm
You ever get module manager fucking up, saying something is in the wrong spot?

Spoiler: Image of what I mean will be here soon... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 09, 2014, 11:49:58 pm
Just lost my two veteran Kerbals trying to complete two of the aerial observation missions from that mod that was just linked. I had just completed one mission and had to perform a 90 degree turn at mach 4.5 to move on to the next one. The plane had proven pretty stable while performing high g turns in the past but I guess I was flying too low or going too fast this time. I just saw the g-force meter jump as the plane really cut into the air, and then it disintegrated. I may have been able to save one of the pilots if they were falling over land, but it was over water and nothing could prevent total destruction.

One of the kerbals was the first to land on the Mun, the other the first on Minmus. They were my only real veterans after all the others died even more stupid deaths. They weren't even supposed to be on this mission, I just made some small adjustments to the plane and forgot to reset the crew. They were flying over the North pole before I noticed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on August 10, 2014, 03:27:53 am
At least they died doing what they loved.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 10, 2014, 04:15:55 am
rip in peace neverforget ;_;7
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 10, 2014, 04:21:15 am
Two veteran hotshot space pilots, on a boring mission to the middle of nowhere, crash their plane due to accidentally exceeding its structural limits?

It may be tragic, but written out like that it sounds like a case of "hold my beer and watch this". :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 10, 2014, 11:47:28 am
Bleh, still having problems with B9. Now there are duplicate parts and if I try to use any of them, they refuse to attach and get the game stuck in the VAB, unable to place any parts or leave. I tried taking out the whole B9 folder but somehow a set of the glitched parts remained, still with their models and everything. I have no idea where the game is storing them if not there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 10, 2014, 12:04:40 pm
Use a new ksp install and start over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 10, 2014, 12:08:05 pm
It's not that much of an issue, certainly not worth the effort of restarting and re-installing all of my mods. I just have to avoid using the glitched parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 10, 2014, 12:47:23 pm
Kick up the debug menu and look for null refs as you build and as you launch. You're likely to get them with duped parts and 1 year into a mission your ship will explode. It is a big deal. Save yourself time and just make a proper install.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 10, 2014, 01:47:30 pm
Even if I don't use any of the duped parts? I literally cannot use them at all. Trying to place them anywhere results in the game getting stuck and requiring a restart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 10, 2014, 02:02:51 pm
Did you also delete the ships folder and the etc folders that came with B9? It gives like 3 or 4 last I checked.

Yeah, I avoid B9 simply because its stupidly hard to get the shit to actually work as intended. No idea what is up with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on August 10, 2014, 02:22:39 pm
Theres a few things I love about B9.  I love the heavy duty landing gears and how hugely customizable they are reverse motor? Check, Steering? Check, variable lengths? Check... I love the absolutely beautiful intakes, and I love the cargo bays.

I hate the wings (the smallest B9 wing is too big for almost anything I want to build, and the procedural wings mod pretty much obsoletes any wing, vanilla or not anyway), there's only 2 cockpits in the pack I like, and only one of them actually has an interior, The dual mode engine is broken and obsoleted by vanilla now anyway, while pretty the intakes seem a bit overpowered, and since the project had basically been abandoned for more than one major update outside of a few compatibility patches, a lot of stuff behaves oddly.

If somebody knows of any good alternatives to B9 for spaceplane parts it would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 10, 2014, 02:31:17 pm
I doubt the craft files have anything to do with it. They can't store part definitions and certainly can't store models.

I only get null refs after attempting to place a glitched part and after that I need to restart the game. I've already gone through most of the tech tree in career mode and nothing bad has happened yet. I don't intend to make a fresh install unless things get unplayable.

Greigor: you can try spaceplane+. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80796-0-24-Spaceplane-Plus-1-3?highlight=spaceplane%2B) It hasn't got quite the variety of B9 but it does have some pretty good (and good looking) parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on August 10, 2014, 02:37:03 pm
Ohhh pretty, It's even my favorite fuselage size.  Thankees.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 10, 2014, 06:00:28 pm
And get ALCOR with some of the Raster prop changing things, notonly does Raster work with spaceplane+ but the ALCOR is sexy as fuck.

If I can find a manual on the thing I may even go and try doing IVA missions...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 12, 2014, 01:24:24 am
Well I just wasted two large scale launches while trying to replace my old remotetech communications network. The first one because I forgot that angles don't get larger over longer distances and the second because I forgot that 90 degrees is bigger than 60 degrees. Apparently I can handle rocket science and orbital dynamics but not grade school geometry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 13, 2014, 10:20:36 pm
Edit: Nevermind, I am dumb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 17, 2014, 01:40:42 pm
So yesterday I tried out DarkMultiPlayer (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79111-DarkMultiPlayer-0-1-5-0-KSP-0-24-2-Alpha) on a private server and it worked pretty well. There were no crashes and only a few noticeable bugs. The biggest problem I encountered was a bug where the game wouldn't allow me to return to the space center or recover the craft after landing, but that happened rarely and switching craft or reconnecting solved it.

Granted this was on a LAN with two players, but things seem to be working well enough that it might be worth it to set up a Bay 12 server.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on August 17, 2014, 06:08:03 pm
Mother of chrome...Bay12 multiplayer KSP? Could you imagine the carnage and the overly dwarven rockets? May science have mercy on the heavens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 18, 2014, 07:51:57 am
Yes, I can picture the chaos. The skies rent by the fire of a hundred over-engineered booster stages. It will be glorious and terrible to behold.

If there's enough interest I could potentially host a server, but I don't have any experience managing these things. Preferably the host would be someone who actually knows what they're doing. It seems really easy to set a server up, though. And it doesn't require many system resources since almost everything is client-side by necessity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 18, 2014, 07:56:47 am
Yeah, from what I've seen DMP is a lot better than that. You can actually do things like fly in formation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 18, 2014, 07:59:30 am
We could have huge naval battles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on August 18, 2014, 02:24:16 pm
Is... That actually a mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 18, 2014, 02:31:34 pm
its a bunch of them, but We dont need mods here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJYAyx91N5s&list=PLnfM-w9LSGDtzy3R6gdsFO4apdt-tNolf)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on August 18, 2014, 02:36:34 pm
DMP is stable and is being worked on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 18, 2014, 05:35:02 pm
DMP does support mods. I'm not sure to what extent yet. I can see certain mods such as TimeControl causing problems but part mods and things like MechJeb and FAR should work fine. A community Interstellar Quest seems like it would be incredibly fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on August 18, 2014, 06:09:34 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 18, 2014, 05:35:02 pm
DMP does support mods. I'm not sure to what extent yet. I can see certain mods such as TimeControl causing problems but part mods and things like MechJeb and FAR should work fine. A community Interstellar Quest seems like it would be incredibly fun.

I hope that the combat mods work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on August 18, 2014, 08:47:19 pm
If nothing else we can always go with kinetic impactors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 18, 2014, 09:54:53 pm
I prefer stock kinetic missiles. They are much more fun to design and build ships around and tend to cause a satisfying level of damage. They'd be pretty much impossible to dogfight with though, especially with the jittery movement inherent with KSP multiplayer mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on August 18, 2014, 10:19:25 pm
Idea: use Extraplanetary Launchpads and Kethane, as well as a few other mods (specifically SCANSat), have each player claim a Joolian moon, and first person to have control of the Joolian system wins. To keep things interesting, maybe a 'one-resupply-mission-per-launch-window' limit, to keep the focus on ISRU.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Imofexios on August 19, 2014, 03:14:32 am
I think i drop this in here too http://godarklight.info.tm/dmp-serverlist/ (http://godarklight.info.tm/dmp-serverlist/)
As can see servers are using many different mods.
I think its just matter of testing out what works if putting own server up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 19, 2014, 04:14:07 pm
Right, well enough people seem interested. Unless someone else comes along and volunteers to host I will set up a simple vanilla sandbox server sometime tomorrow. After that we can decide on what mods to add and which gamemode we want.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 19, 2014, 06:48:39 pm
All I know is that I want to design a craft with warp drive torpedo's at some point :P

Quote from: tahujdt on August 18, 2014, 10:19:25 pm
Idea: use Extraplanetary Launchpads and Kethane, as well as a few other mods (specifically SCANSat), have each player claim a Joolian moon, and first person to have control of the Joolian system wins. To keep things interesting, maybe a 'one-resupply-mission-per-launch-window' limit, to keep the focus on ISRU.

Well that sounds good, until you realize some lucky bastard gets to make rockets on a moon with no atmosphere and next to no gravity while some unlucky bastard has to deal with firing things from Laythe.

So while Laytheguy is going to be firing normal rockets and probably assembling things in space, Luckybastard could probably just make giant warship from one whole part and still make space with more fuel then Laytheguy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 20, 2014, 04:05:41 am
They be adding arrow to navball instead of antiicon

Why can't just get the enhanced navball mod in game plus docking alignment indicator?

Arrows. Hope i read it wrong.

http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/95232611054/devnote-tuesdays-the-cant-spell-kerbal-without-k
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 20, 2014, 04:10:34 am
They're just adding an arrow so you don't have to search for the maneuver indicator.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 20, 2014, 07:41:04 am
Wow just had a harrowing Mun orbit mission because I forgot TAC Life Support makes you require Electric Charge. After quite a few quicksaves/loads to figure out exactly how long he could go without, Bill finally returned safe and sound because of a stupid number of "lets not die" burns at periodic intervals.

So yeah, Orbiter III has four batteries and two solar panels due to this.

EDIT: And now ladies and gentlekerbals, I give you something astounding that has never been done before! (at least by me :P)

Spoiler: Hecate Lunar Lander (click to show/hide)

This little beauty is designed to conserve fuel for the precious "getting the hell off the Mun" stage by utilizing the power of monopropellant engines as the initial landing stage and leaving behind all that bulky science equipment after it gets used up.

The Hecate comes equipped with eight strategically placed Vernor Engines as a last resort against tippage (conceivably allowing it to get off the ground regardless of what angle it ends up at) as well as extensive life support systems to prevent loss of precious life.

Along with the previously listed features, the Hecate utilizes an asparagus style booster system equipped to survive re-entry for later use. This first generation craft is already the most advanced lander developed by BFEL industries and yet later models utilizing next generation technology are already planned that will allow the final spent booster to be utilized as an impactor probe.

The Hecate comes fully equipped as seen at the low, low price of 55000 kerbucks, order now to receive free shipping and handling as well as a complimentary Hecate action figure with kung-fu grip!

EDIT2: Yeah, nevermind all that. Need to totally redo the booster section and I'm pretty sure I need more monopropellant. I'll keep you guys posted :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 20, 2014, 02:21:13 pm
Looks good BFEL. A bit unstable for landing perhaps, you probably don't want to land anywhere near a hill.

I've finally succumbed to the cold that has been ravaging my household for the past week. I'll still try to have a server up today, but I doubt I'll have the energy for much more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 20, 2014, 03:28:31 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 20, 2014, 02:21:13 pm
Looks good BFEL. A bit unstable for landing perhaps, you probably don't want to land anywhere near a hill.

That's what the Vernor Engines are for, and currently the least of my worries :P
I basically ripped the booster section straight from another ship so it was insufficient to get me fully orbital, let alone get me to the Mun. So I'm thinking I'll have to make it a sixfold instead of fourfold booster.
I've already fixed some issues with the lander itself, specifically strutted the hell out of the auxiliary fuel tanks because Ferram does NOT like those at all and wants to rip them right off.
I also added a inline monoprop tank between the science and engine decoupler because I have absolutely zero confidence in the amount of fuel it had for the landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 20, 2014, 06:28:26 pm
Okay then, the server should be up. PM me and I will send you the IP address. Tell me if it's not working.

I'll make my own thread tomorrow, I just don't feel up to it right now. Don't expect to see much of me on the server for the rest of today, I'm pretty tired/sick and there's company over.

Edit: This cold is kicking my ass, I'm going to bed early. You can still PM me but I probably won't reply until tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 21, 2014, 10:20:24 am
Well, as I suspected changing it to a sixfold booster was enough to Mun. However ALSO as I suspected there was nowhere near the amount of monoprop I needed to land. Fixing that now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 24, 2014, 07:09:44 pm
Okay, sorry for the delay. That "cold" turned out to be the worst flu I've had in years so I've been mostly bedridden for the last few days. The server should be up so you're free to mess around on it. Just pm me for the IP address.

I'm still a bit fuzz-brained. I'll make a separate thread where people can suggest mods and stuff once I can organize my thoughts again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 26, 2014, 10:37:19 pm
Holy shit is new career mode HARD.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 26, 2014, 10:39:27 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on August 26, 2014, 10:37:19 pm
Holy shit is new career mode HARD.

? It is? How so? I'm rolling in dough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 26, 2014, 11:25:43 pm
FUNDING UGHH
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 26, 2014, 11:31:05 pm
Unless you're playing with mods that add crazy overpriced stuff, it's really damn easy to get funding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 26, 2014, 11:32:05 pm
not for me ;~;
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 26, 2014, 11:43:47 pm
Well then stop failing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 27, 2014, 06:01:41 am
Protip: Most of the part test missions are shit, they don't come close to how fast you would normally be going at that altitude.

Also try to not build for better than you have to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 27, 2014, 09:12:02 am
Protip; build crazy rockets to finish multiple contracts and revert as needed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 09:54:54 am
I just grab every "test at launch" and occasional "test in orbit"...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on August 27, 2014, 09:59:40 am
I tend to ignore those and focus on the "Go to this planet" ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 10:19:32 am
But... Free science! Its taken me halfway down the tree and I still havent figured out how to get really close to a kerbal yet, letalone get close to the Mun! ((The one time I came close I went past too fast, wound up in deep spaaaace))
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 27, 2014, 10:36:53 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 10:19:32 am
But... Free science! Its taken me halfway down the tree and I still havent figured out how to get really close to a kerbal yet, letalone get close to the Mun! ((The one time I came close I went past too fast, wound up in deep spaaaace))
Maneuver nodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 10:57:48 am
I know, I just can get close enough...

Most of my creations arent powerful enough, and most are made to look nice more than act nice...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 27, 2014, 11:47:55 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 27, 2014, 10:36:53 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 10:19:32 am
But... Free science! Its taken me halfway down the tree and I still havent figured out how to get really close to a kerbal yet, letalone get close to the Mun! ((The one time I came close I went past too fast, wound up in deep spaaaace))
Maneuver nodes.

Maneuver nodes and relative velocity to target when you do get anywhere near 5km away. Just zero out your relative velocity by paying attention to your navball markers. Then get within 2km so you can switch to the kerbal and use his jetpack fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 02:36:24 pm
Yah, I managed to do that once, and then had no idea what to do with the kerbal, thanks to lack of navball... Ah well...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 27, 2014, 02:42:43 pm
If you leave the camera on the default and have similar orbital planes then just pushing forward while pointing at the vehicle should get your kerbal where he needs to go with minimal up/down adjustment. Just watch your speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 27, 2014, 09:10:23 pm
So anyone have enough patience to sit through that podcast and get that sweet info on the admin building? INQUIRING MINDS WITH SHORT ATTENTION SPANS WANT TO KNOW.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on August 28, 2014, 12:22:35 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on August 27, 2014, 02:36:24 pm
Yah, I managed to do that once, and then had no idea what to do with the kerbal, thanks to lack of navball... Ah well...
From seeing something on the KSP forum, you have to get close(within 2.5km, but closer is better), then use [ and ] to switch to the kerbalnaut, target the rescue ship(not needed, but being able to see the ship is much better than not), press R to ready the jetpack, and fly to the ship. Grab on and board, then drop back into the atmosphere, hit land(soft enough that at least the crew pods are intact, or bail out if the crew can survive hitting the ground) and recover the craft.

Oh, and make sure there's an empty crew spot on the ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 28, 2014, 12:26:18 pm
So...question... is it normal FAR behavior to have a capsule fall so slowly you don't need a chute? Well, ok I use the chute on the way down, but I've been having the chutes randomly cut a few hundred meters above the surface and then just slowly glide down at parachute velocity anyway.

I could probably use just a drogue chute and be fine at this point...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on August 28, 2014, 06:36:28 pm
So I went to do an EVA in near-Kerbal orbit, but poor Jebediah got separated from the capsule almost immediately. Tried to get back to it using the EVA pack and wound up smacking into it and then bouncing off at a high rate of speed. At which point he reached atmospheric interface and starting glowing like a cinder. Then the atmosphere buffeting further down in the stratosphere. But still alive.

Used his EVA pack to try and slow down his fall but still hit the ground at 100+ m/s, bounced about 30m and came to rest in a heap. Then got up, dusted himself off and took a soil sample.  :o

So, did they remove astronaut deaths???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on August 28, 2014, 07:14:24 pm
I doubt it, but kerbonauts can be surprisingly durable. I know I've heard tales about them surviving long falls by various graces, usually involving expert (or lucky) jetpack use.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on August 28, 2014, 07:14:55 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on August 28, 2014, 07:14:24 pm
I doubt it, but kerbonauts can be surprisingly durable. I know I've heard tales about them surviving long falls by various graces, usually involving expert (or lucky) jetpack use.

Explosions are the best parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on August 28, 2014, 07:52:18 pm
Yeah, I've got a thing on my LKO space station that fires Kerbals onto the surface. They survive more than you'd expect. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on August 28, 2014, 08:34:10 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on August 28, 2014, 07:52:18 pm
Yeah, I've got a thing on my LKO space station that fires Kerbals onto the surface. They survive more than you'd expect. :P
I wanna sig this, but I'm near my sig limit, and I will not join the sigthread.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 28, 2014, 09:25:38 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on August 28, 2014, 09:24:01 pm
Quote from: tahujdt on August 28, 2014, 08:34:10 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on August 28, 2014, 07:52:18 pm
Yeah, I've got a thing on my LKO space station that fires Kerbals onto the surface. They survive more than you'd expect. :P
I wanna sig this, but I'm near my sig limit, and I will not join the sigthread.
Come with us tahu~
COME WITH US
IN A TOTALLY NONSEXUAL MANNER!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on August 28, 2014, 10:16:13 pm
Quote
IN A TOTALLY NONSEXUAL MANNER!
.

Aww.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 29, 2014, 04:43:22 am
Quote from: IronTomato on August 28, 2014, 07:52:18 pm
Yeah, I've got a thing on my LKO space station that fires Kerbals onto the surface. They survive more than you'd expect. :P
I think it's meant to be if you land them head first, they just bounce.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 31, 2014, 09:19:12 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on August 31, 2014, 08:04:27 pm
I just recently downloaded FAR with B9.
This is my first time with FAR, on science mode.
Any tips on building spaceplanes that don't explode magnificently seconds after take-off?
I'm very low in the tech tree (have yet to unlock anything costlier than 90 science points)

For one thing, ALWAYS put the CoL behind CoM. After that, just make something vaguely plane-shaped and you will usually be good.

As for with FAR, the biggest issue it introduces is that you can't go around making super tight turns and such like in stock, at least not at high speeds, else you will either stall or deconstruct, possibly both.

Other thing to worry about with FAR, particularly in relation to rockets is that now kerbals can die from G-forces! (I'm pretty sure that's from FAR, MIGHT be TAC life support though.) So none of those "barrel straight down through the atmosphere at 3000 kps and expect to live when the chute deploys" anymore :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 31, 2014, 09:33:42 pm
Other things to keep an eye on: put elevators (control surfaces) on the back of your main wings and make them only apply...um...for some reason I can't remember what up/down movement is for planes atm :P

Then put control surfaces on any tailplane and assign it just yaw, and maybe have some canards or somesuch in charge of roll control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 31, 2014, 11:19:17 pm
Quote
As for with FAR, the biggest issue it introduces is that you can't go around making super tight turns and such like in stock, at least not at high speeds, else you will either stall or deconstruct, possibly both.

Yeah, FAR is no fun. Same with DR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 02, 2014, 01:32:27 pm
You can disable areodynamic failures. I usually do.

I find FAR (rather, it's simpler cousin, NEAR) to be essential to designing real aircraft. It lets you build more realistic aircraft and it rewards you for making them look airplanelike.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 01:37:45 pm
B9 has an official new release, complete with a whole new class of parts. Rejoice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 02, 2014, 01:45:20 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 01:37:45 pm
B9 has an official new release, complete with a whole new class of parts. Rejoice.
About damn time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 02:00:19 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 02, 2014, 01:45:20 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 01:37:45 pm
B9 has an official new release, complete with a whole new class of parts. Rejoice.
About damn time.

It's been mostly functional for the past week or so. Today marked version 5.0.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 02, 2014, 02:01:12 pm
I was under the impression that B9 was sort of nonfunctional and required external .dll's which may or may not cause issues for several versions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 02:03:50 pm
Everything has been internalized with this release. The other big update I forgot about is KAS. The original author is back in the saddle and has a .24.2 release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 09:43:44 pm
I tried to get the new B9 running and it totally failed just as magnificently as every other time I tried to install B9. Eventually just said fuck it and installed Spaceplane+

Hurray Cmega! Honestly I'm still working on landing my planes on the runway...or anywhere for that matter... for some reason I have issues either turning the thing to the right angle or slowing it down enough that it isn't trying to land at mach speeds... my latest model doesn't want to go ANYWHERE at less then 200 kps so its kinda difficult.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 09:50:49 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 09:43:44 pm
I tried to get the new B9 running and it totally failed just as magnificently as every other time I tried to install B9. Eventually just said fuck it and installed Spaceplane+

You have to run activetexturemanagement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 02, 2014, 09:57:52 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 09:43:44 pm
I tried to get the new B9 running and it totally failed just as magnificently as every other time I tried to install B9. Eventually just said fuck it and installed Spaceplane+

Get the active memory management mod. The new B9 caused the game to crash after loading for me until I applied it. Probably all the high resolution textures for the many hull variants.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 10:14:59 pm
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I DID.

Still epicfailed.

Even now that "everything" has been internalized B9 is just such a hassle of managing tertiary mods and plugins and miscellaneous junk that its just not worth the bother.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 02, 2014, 10:45:18 pm
You can delete the huge sci-fi parts if you just want the spaceplane parts. I think they're in their own separate folder. That should clear up about half the memory usage, if that's even what's wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 10:51:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 10:14:59 pm
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I DID.

Still epicfailed.

Even now that "everything" has been internalized B9 is just such a hassle of managing tertiary mods and plugins and miscellaneous junk that its just not worth the bother.

B9 5.0 gives it all to you. You just copy it over. I'm not seeing the issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 10:56:26 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 02, 2014, 10:51:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 02, 2014, 10:14:59 pm
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I DID.

Still epicfailed.

Even now that "everything" has been internalized B9 is just such a hassle of managing tertiary mods and plugins and miscellaneous junk that its just not worth the bother.

B9 5.0 gives it all to you. You just copy it over. I'm not seeing the issue.
I copied it over into my KSP and then KSP wouldn't run. That is the issue. Also as others have said despite it "giving it all to you" it STILL requires texture compression/management nonsense and general convoluted faffery that makes me want to bash my head through my desk.

Quite simply the issue is you CAN'T "just copy it over" like every other mod ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 08:18:59 am
I hope you're not running ksp 64bit. Until Unity gets its act together and fully supports 64bit, which it should have done from the beginning, texture compression is a necessity. B9 does have a few incompatibilities, mostly in the things it internalizes. Most mod plugins do not like multiples of themselves because the creators coded them that way. A few, like tweakscale, have changed because other mods use their own alteration of tweakscale. Mod versions change almost daily. Update first and then start removing mods to see what's breaking things. You might also want more than 2gb of RAM.

Quote
Q: I run out memory

Blame Squad :^)
Seriously now, here's something you can try: Install Active Texture Management, run KSP with the -force-opengl argument, delete the B9_Aerospace_DEPRECATED folder, if you're already converted all the crafts that would open properly. Finally, you can try deleting the parts you don't need. Its a big pack, don't be shy to push that delete button.


edit: Fun times to be had launching from here.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 03, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 08:18:59 am
I hope you're not running ksp 64bit.

Nope, and the rest of your reply shows exactly why I don't B9, from your description I would have to check and re-check EVERY. MOD. I. USE.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 03, 2014, 08:38:16 pm
I ran B9 with 64bit.
The game dident crash with it either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 09:23:30 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 03, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 08:18:59 am
I hope you're not running ksp 64bit.

Nope, and the rest of your reply shows exactly why I don't B9, from your description I would have to check and re-check EVERY. MOD. I. USE.

You have to do that with mods already. If you're not then you're probably playing with some nasty bugs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 03, 2014, 11:00:26 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 09:23:30 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 03, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 03, 2014, 08:18:59 am
I hope you're not running ksp 64bit.

Nope, and the rest of your reply shows exactly why I don't B9, from your description I would have to check and re-check EVERY. MOD. I. USE.

You have to do that with mods already. If you're not then you're probably playing with some nasty bugs.
Not really, so long as you create totally new games for each major release and get the latest mod version for the new release every time it works perfectly.
EXCEPT FOR B9.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 04, 2014, 06:19:26 am
You have to download another mod to get B9 to work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 04, 2014, 04:35:36 pm
B9 now requires NEAR or FAR. THAT is disappointing. That is a very big dependency that changes everything atmospheric.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 04, 2014, 08:09:28 pm
I use FAR almost all the time anyway since I find the vanilla flight physics jarringly inaccurate.  Because of that it's not a big deal to me, but yea it's a little disappointing to no longer have the option.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 04, 2014, 08:44:45 pm
It's not "required", the stock aerodynamic model just isn't supported by the modders anymore. All the parts should still work, it's just that all balancing and bugfixing will be performed with the assumption you are using NEAR/FAR. It seems like kind of an odd stance but I guess it's understandable when there's no indication that the stock model will be improved in the near future.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on September 05, 2014, 04:07:24 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJ9B632PA4&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 05, 2014, 08:46:16 am
New plane reaches 200m/s ON THE RUNWAY and hits 700m/s before it hits 1000 meters high. This is hilarious.

Still haven't managed to make deadly reentry kill it while EXITING the atmosphere yet :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 05, 2014, 11:26:57 am
SRBs work well for that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 05, 2014, 11:52:14 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 05, 2014, 11:26:57 am
SRBs work well for that.
No boosters. Using thermal turbojets from interstellar. Not even using microwave power either, using fusion reactors in a compact enough design can give you ungodly levels of thrust-to-weight. Using FAR.

Not only that, but adding precoolers has ensured it can fly at 8-9 hundred m/s while under 2000 meters without the engines exploding (unlike before where they would overheat)

Its a BITCH to turn though.
Its kinda sad when the most practical way to land your plane is to literally fly it completely around the planet in a straight line.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on September 05, 2014, 12:44:37 pm
Quote from: QuakeIV on September 05, 2014, 04:07:24 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJ9B632PA4&feature=youtu.be
Yeah, pretty much. You have to stop completely before turning or bad things happen. Also make sure to go straight down slopes. You might want to copy the craft's file to the Space Plane Hanger and launch from the runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2014, 03:04:45 pm
One thing I learned about rovers:

Always have at least as wide a wheelbase as your heght, if you want to turn.

Also, spoilers work and make for fun jet-cars.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 05, 2014, 03:22:38 pm
You can have much shorter wheelbases than that, just turn the turning to docking mode. It wont try to tip you over when you turn then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on September 05, 2014, 04:49:10 pm
Yeah, I ended up just putting the wheels further out.  I just figured it was a funny video.

e:  Also, oddly, inverting forward steering significantly improved steering performance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 06, 2014, 01:04:31 pm
Ok, what in the goddamn fuck is making my planes roll over while trying to take off? This isn't the superspeed monster btw, this is a perfectly normal plane, and no matter WHAT I fucking do it decides about 3/4 of the way through the runway it wants to be a doggie and rolls over like I threw a mainsail under one wing and spazzes the hell out.

Is it just REALLY bad to have a single wheel up front or something? Never seemed to cause problems for Scott Manley or RL planes, but no matter how wide I put the back wheels or even adding a second set or configuring it a different way or anything worked.

Then I tried every combination of control surfaces I could think of. There is currently a maxed control elevator just sticking on the end of my swept wings with nothing but roll control and NOPE has no goddamn effect on anything.

This is something of a consistent problem I have with planes in general, and usually giving it wider wheels works but this is just making me want to throw my computer.

Is there some essential trick I'm missing to not exploding on the runway?

EDIT: Apparently I was just too goddamn heavy...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on September 06, 2014, 01:46:29 pm
Probably just has to do with center of gravity vs center of lift more than anything
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 06, 2014, 04:20:44 pm
So for pretty much the first time in ever, I decided to go interplanetary. I knew going in I was very very not prepared to do so, but fuck it. So I made "Explorer I" the new hope of Kerbal's everywhere!

Its basically a mkII command pod with large life support on top of a tricoupler with two NERVA's and a stack of materials bays with goo's that reaches pretty much exactly the size of the other two, all put on top of the biggest ARM engine with 3 of its large fuel containers.

So I managed to get this gigantic fucker into space, and even managed to get an Eve encounter. I decided not to circularize because lack of fuel, but I get tons of high-altitude science (I really should have gotten the encounter closer when I had the chance, but I oopsied)

Now I'm on the return and....I realize we don't have enough life support to make it back, and there simply isn't a transfer window which I could make within the year I have left.

Now, something to note, currently the space programs only surviving member with any experience whatsoever (Bob) is on that ship...so he does the only thing his experience tells him will get all this science safely home...he kicks Rodgard and Edmund out...

I now have four years of life support, and a transfer in three!

I still probably don't have the delta v to pull it off, so I'm gonna try and rush out actuators so I can catch it when it goes past. I imagine Bob is in for a court martial when he gets back home :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 06, 2014, 09:28:39 pm
Nah,Bob just has to spinn it right.

They all knew that the three of them couldn't make it, so they drew lots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 07, 2014, 03:57:55 am
Quote from: BFEL on September 06, 2014, 01:04:31 pm
EDIT: Apparently I was just too goddamn heavy...
Yea that is a MAJOR issue with the stock landing gears.  Put too much weight on them and they start to buckle. And thanks to the way the weight system works, they will often buckle on one side before the other, causing you to lose yaw control while on the runway sometimes causing your plane to have a close encounter with the hangar.

A solution to this is to add more landing gear to distribute the weight (I used to double up each landing gear if that happened before I played with mods)  another option if you use B9 or firespitter is to break out the heavier duty landing gears.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 07, 2014, 05:26:47 am
Quote from: BFEL on September 06, 2014, 04:20:44 pm
So for pretty much the first time in ever, I decided to go interplanetary. I knew going in I was very very not prepared to do so, but fuck it. So I made "Explorer I" the new hope of Kerbal's everywhere!

Its basically a mkII command pod with large life support on top of a tricoupler with two NERVA's and a stack of materials bays with goo's that reaches pretty much exactly the size of the other two, all put on top of the biggest ARM engine with 3 of its large fuel containers.

So I managed to get this gigantic fucker into space, and even managed to get an Eve encounter. I decided not to circularize because lack of fuel, but I get tons of high-altitude science (I really should have gotten the encounter closer when I had the chance, but I oopsied)

Now I'm on the return and....I realize we don't have enough life support to make it back, and there simply isn't a transfer window which I could make within the year I have left.

Now, something to note, currently the space programs only surviving member with any experience whatsoever (Bob) is on that ship...so he does the only thing his experience tells him will get all this science safely home...he kicks Rodgard and Edmund out...

I now have four years of life support, and a transfer in three!

I still probably don't have the delta v to pull it off, so I'm gonna try and rush out actuators so I can catch it when it goes past. I imagine Bob is in for a court martial when he gets back home :P
Sounds like Sunshine's plot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 07, 2014, 08:19:17 am
Quote from: Greiger on September 07, 2014, 03:57:55 am
A solution to this is to add more landing gear to distribute the weight (I used to double up each landing gear if that happened before I played with mods)  another option if you use B9 or firespitter is to break out the heavier duty landing gears.
I'll remember that for future forays, though I don't use B9 or firespitter (well I technically use the firespitter plugin or something because its required by another mod I have? Fuck if I know) because it befuddles me how to get any of that shit to work with anything.

EDIT: aaaand just realized I had the FinePrint mod installed COMPLETELY WRONG this whole time. No wonder I had no space station contracts or such... *le sigh*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 07, 2014, 08:59:10 am
How do you install fine print wrong? Now I see why you can't get B9 working.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 07, 2014, 10:00:17 am
Quote from: BigD145 on September 07, 2014, 08:59:10 am
How do you install fine print wrong? Now I see why you can't get B9 working.
Instead of putting it in GameData I put it in the main ksp folder.
I think what happened was I dl'd it before going to bed and just threw it in while intending to fix it in the morning, but then forgot about it :P

And hey, B9 is a whole different animal, it has dependencies and shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 07, 2014, 12:39:17 pm
B9 is the same animal. Folders go into gamedata and you're done. Like any other mod you have to check version numbers and duplicates. Usually you erase the folders you're replacing. You need to know maybe two quirks of KSP mods: erase the original mod folders/files and not all mod makers zip folders nested in GameData > mod A > plugins, parts, etc. Some use mod A > plugins and some use modmaker A > mod AA, mod AB > plugins, parts, etc. That's pretty much it. KSP is super lenient on mods. You could take almost every mod and pull out its parts folders into one single parts folder in gamedata but OMFG do not do that. That would be a nightmare to update. That's how KSP used to be before the GameData folder and it was rough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 07, 2014, 01:24:05 pm
Dude, I'm not even REPLACING anything. Just throwing a B9 into a fresh install is enough to crash the game. And then you have to muck around with texture compilers and plugins and HOW THE FUCKSHIT ARE YOU PEOPLE SO LAISSEZ-FAIRE ABOUT IT? Its like a teacher trying to convince a kindergartener that quantum physics is exactly as simple as addition!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 07, 2014, 02:25:07 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 07, 2014, 01:24:05 pm
Dude, I'm not even REPLACING anything. Just throwing a B9 into a fresh install is enough to crash the game. And then you have to muck around with texture compilers and plugins and HOW THE FUCKSHIT ARE YOU PEOPLE SO LAISSEZ-FAIRE ABOUT IT? Its like a teacher trying to convince a kindergartener that quantum physics is exactly as simple as addition!
the texture management is just drag + drop into gamedata
the module manager is just drag + drop into gamedata
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 08, 2014, 08:28:14 am
So right now I have like 10 contracts now that FinePrint is installed correctly.

Currently planning another trip to Eve, though this time I'm actually...well, PLANNING the trip :P
I was kinda worried for awhile there because the contracts I took to land and plant a flag and do aerial surveys all expire in 2X years, but after looking up transfer info apparently a well planned trip takes less then ONE.

So yeah, my biggest issue right now is ACQUIRING FUNDS surprisingly. Mostly I threw landers on Mun/Minmus with plenty of life support and am spamming any plant flag missions for em.

I also took a mission to put a base on the Mun, which I think is going to get most of my attention after I obtain enough moneys to conceivably do so.

As for my plan for Eve, I have the first piece of the ship sitting in the VAB, which is basically a Processing Lab, A microwave transmitter, and a Sethlans Fission Reactor with appropriate electric generator.
This piece is the most important because I intend to outfit my lander with a big ass thermal turbojet and plan to power it with said transmitted microwaves because that combo is hilariously OP for atmospheric flight (requires ZERO fuel, weighs practically nothing, and can provide as much/more power then normal jet engines)

Unfortunately said first piece and the equipment to (hopefully) put it in orbit costs over a million kerbucks, which would currently bankrupt me.
I also need 1000 science to unlock the mircrowave receivers I need, though I get the feeling that will be easier to obtain then the 30 billion kerbucks I need to finish up all these contracts.

As for right this moment, trying to put satellites into precise orbits, and turning them into microwave relays as well because then they at least DO something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 08, 2014, 02:10:54 pm
Humble is selling KSP for $16 US. Tell your friends on the fence. This is as low as it goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 08, 2014, 09:30:36 pm
I installed the B9 Aerospace pack, and also Ferram Aerospace Research.

Upon ooening the game, KSP inforned me that FAR was incompatible and would probably fuck up. Most of B9's fuselages flashed rapidly while the screen moved (like parts do when they're overlapping another part) and the fuselages that normally contain fuel were absent. I tried to load one of B9's single-stagers, but it supposedly contained invalid parts. I then loaded up one of FAR's stock planes, and it desintegrated while flying.

I'm playing on .24.0, would it help if I got .24.2?  :v
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 08, 2014, 09:43:26 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on September 08, 2014, 09:30:36 pm
I'm playing on .24.0, would it help if I got .24.2?  :v
Yes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 08, 2014, 09:48:37 pm
Also, when you want fuel in B9 left click on the thing and hit buttons.

It makes the 20~ different 6m octagonal ones only show one on the list, which is beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 09, 2014, 12:31:31 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 08, 2014, 09:43:26 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on September 08, 2014, 09:30:36 pm
I'm playing on .24.0, would it help if I got .24.2?  :v
Yes

Almost every single mod is version dependent for a very narrow window of versions. Also, .24.0 and .1 were broken and fixed rather quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 09, 2014, 03:15:31 am
A fun thing to do with FAR and infernal robotics is to manually create control surfaces for planes using small wing pieces and hinges. It's a bit harder to control, but the aerodynamics behave much more realistically. Unfortunately, unless you disable aerodynamic failures, the hinges will be ripped off very easily at high speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 01:56:50 am
you can also have foldable delta wings using rotatron like the one on the f14 (but struts the hell out of them :D )

finally got to start career again with mods. using 7x part costs makes everything much more balanced and you actually need contracts to tag along.

I had to use that mod to recover spent stages however.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 10, 2014, 06:28:11 am
Just wait till you need the big ARM engines for your lifting stages, then the normal budget style will feel COMPLETELY balanced...in that you will be bankrupt after a single launch :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 10, 2014, 07:57:57 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 01:56:50 am
you can also have foldable delta wings using rotatron like the one on the f14 (but struts the hell out of them :D )

finally got to start career again with mods. using 7x part costs makes everything much more balanced and you actually need contracts to tag along.

I had to use that mod to recover spent stages however.
Get the building one, that fixes alot of the stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 08:20:41 am
Kerbal construcion time?

Does too much thing and the only I liked was the stage recovery cost
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 10, 2014, 08:25:08 am
Who all wants something like KAS to become stock?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 09:35:32 am
Too many parts to become stock

That and infernal robotics doesn't really fit with the other parts: they swamp them.
Same thing with kethane.

Takes o much part to get to a workable anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 10, 2014, 09:37:21 am
Kethane has about as many parts as Spaceplanes +. KAS.dll stock would be grand, but just as prone to ctd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erkki on September 10, 2014, 10:23:14 am
Finally took the SSTO challenge and managed to build a working one in about 3 hours using stock parts only and without clipping anything. 2 turbojet engines with 2 intakes each and a RAPIER engine --> 1 kerbal to a 90 x 90 orbit with 500 m/s of delta-V left + 9 minutes worth of fuel at full power at sea level. It can probably do better with with a more optimized ascent... Or with some of the fuel dumped before takeoff. A similar design with a rocket engine had a bit less dV left at orbit.

Now to modify it to actually be able to bring some cargo to orbit with meaningful dV to spare.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 10, 2014, 10:33:04 am
Last night I got B9 working fine. The huge parts are awesome, I almost want to build a station with a hangar using them.

There's one problem, though. That problem is that FAR is still being a sack of crap. I barely even had to move my plane before it disintegrated, so I turned off aerodynamic failures. However, at random times, I can be flying and the game will seem to forget that my plane has wings, turning me sideways, and I start to fall downwards, unable to control my craft at all.

When it's not royally screwing up, though, aerodynamics behave much more realistically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 10, 2014, 11:29:59 am
That's caused by stalling, which usually means your planes have the center of lift too far forward or you're trying to push the plane beyond its aerodynamic limits. When you're turning you generally want to keep the plane's nose within 5 degrees of the prograde marker or you'll stall out. If you're constantly over-controlling you might want to decrease the pitch angle of your control surfaces by right-clicking on them in the SPH. Also it's a good idea to have a dedicated set of control surfaces for each turning axis (pitch, roll, yaw) otherwise they can interfere with each other.

FAR takes some getting used to, but with a well designed plane and careful piloting you'll do fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 10, 2014, 01:01:22 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 09:35:32 am
Too many parts to become stock

That and infernal robotics doesn't really fit with the other parts: they swamp them.
Same thing with kethane.

Takes o much part to get to a workable anything.
Quote from: BigD145 on September 10, 2014, 09:37:21 am
Kethane has about as many parts as Spaceplanes +. KAS.dll stock would be grand, but just as prone to ctd.

I'm not saying rip it totally like they are with SP+, I'm saying I would like to see kerbal construction/maintenance like in KAS, with placeable struts/pipes etc.
Makes em' feel like they are actual astronauts instead of just glorified science experiments/flag planters :P

I've heard that one reason KAS is horribly crashy is that its basically a big kludge around the stock programming, if the devs worked with it I think they could make it stable, which is the reason I want to see it stock instead of just dling KAS all the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 01:03:18 pm
Dunno never had a crash by previous kas in ksp 23.5 and i run loads of mods

But i am not imaginative enough to build big contraptions I did mostly cranes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 10, 2014, 01:47:32 pm
KAS has caused problems for me every time I've tried to use it. It's a shame because I really like the idea of simple in-flight construction and being able to lay down fuel lines instead of having to dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 10, 2014, 03:31:04 pm
So I just had probably my first "Kerbal survived speeds/heights that he really shouldn't have" incident. And boy was it awesome. Was flying "Surveyor I" back to the runway after completing some aerial surveys and transmitting a bunch of temperature data and crew reports.

Surveyor I is easily classifiable as a hypersonic aircraft, seeing as it was going upwards of 700m/s at only 3000 meters up (I was sorta-kinda stress testing to see just how fast that fucker could go, seeing as I spent pretty much the entire mission at or below half thrust, and still flew around easy at supersonic speeds and altitudes)

So naturally, I quicksaved, sure that it would end up being disintegrated by FAR at SOME point. So it eventually happened and I reloaded the quicksave...and suffered a failure before the game would give me actual fucking control of the craft....fuck.

I tried again and again, same result, cockpit detached and spinning out of control at upwards of 300m/s directly towards the ground...so eventually I said "fuck it, I'll just tank the cost and rep, sorry Calsen"
But when I threw him out of the cockpit...CALSEN SURVIVED! I was so happy I planted a flag reading "FUCK YOU GRAVITY! I WIN ANYWAY"

And that is how Calsen Kerman became the most eligible bachelor on Kerbin.
(Note from Calsen: "I don't always jump out of hypersonic aircraft, but when I do, I live")
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ygdrad on September 10, 2014, 04:14:06 pm
I just bought the game yesterday and was wondering if anyone else plays in career mode and if they found ways to not waste the entire value of detachable stages. I tried giving them parachutes so they'll land safely after I detach them, but they just seem to vanish after I get a certain distance away and wont show up in the debris section when looking for crafts/debris I can recover.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 04:42:42 pm
don't have many parts, so have to improvise to squeeze some range out of the very limited funds that a cost*7 campaign allow
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 10, 2014, 04:47:51 pm
You cant salvage those.  Exactly as you say, they reach a critical distance from your active craft and then are abstracted away and vanish.

There is a mod to recover detached parts.  It calculates how many parachutes you have on the piece vs the mass of the piece, and determines if it can land safely, or land with some damage, or be totally destroyed.  Gives you a refund based on this.

If you cant tell from the last couple pages of posts, most mods are currently unstable disasters.  I've never seen anyone post complaints about game crashes or odd bugs, and follow up with "and I'm running stock".  So I have not bothered with the parts recovery mod, the small fund recovery does not seem worth the associated risks.

It is pretty simple to stay in the black, even when you have to eat the cost of disposable boost stages.

Edit:  Case in point, look at LoSboccacc there.  He is multiplying his expenses *7 just for a challenge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 05:28:49 pm
Stock way to recover stages is to bring them up in orbit with you, with their own probe core attached. Finish your mission then go to tracking station, take control of lift stage in parking orbit and deorbit it

Edit: tutorial by manley https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M3DyY3Y5G9E
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 10, 2014, 05:38:38 pm
Is that really worthwhile though?  Most of the cost of the boost stages are the fuel, not the parts.  At least, on my rockets this is true.

So to pack enough fuel to lift the entire thing into orbit without jettisoning stages on the way, I think this would raise the cost beyond what you would recover by landing the parts?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 10, 2014, 05:42:44 pm
Start becoming worthwhile with larger engines. Solid fuel booster are dirt cheap but large liquid stacks do add up costs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 11, 2014, 06:00:52 am
WOH

Did you guys hear 'bout these new B9 Aerospace internals? They no longer suck, in fact, they're awesome and entire flights can be flown in them with your HUD off. There's so many flight computers and other doodads in every one that can show a better navball, cameras, so the visibility isn't crap anymore, landing assistants and everything. Also sound effects.

There's new internals
So many screens and gadgets
I have shit myself
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 11, 2014, 06:08:13 am
If you think they are nice than look for the ALCOR pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 11, 2014, 10:50:36 am
Ah, Thermal Turbojets...you are so fun, yet so explodey.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 12, 2014, 01:07:45 pm
Is it me or is RealChute completely fucking useless?
I set it to "use current craft mass" as what it uses for it's calculations, and i ALWAYS blow up because I'm not going slow enough when I land. What a fucking useless mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 12, 2014, 02:40:49 pm
By default it uses dry mass so you need to switch to wet mass if you're landing with non-empty fuel tanks. Also there is a limit to how much each parachute can handle.

It turns out that running a test on an engine while that engine is still attached to a decoupler causes the decoupler to become nonfunctional. I wish I had known this before I sent my latest high-tech space probe on a collision course with the moon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 12, 2014, 04:55:06 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 12, 2014, 02:40:49 pm
It turns out that running a test on an engine while that engine is still attached to a decoupler causes the decoupler to become nonfunctional. I wish I had known this before I sent my latest high-tech space probe on a collision course with the moon.

really?  even when you select the decoupler manually with the mouse, instead of through the staging sequence?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 12, 2014, 05:13:26 pm
Quote from: puke on September 12, 2014, 04:55:06 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 12, 2014, 02:40:49 pm
It turns out that running a test on an engine while that engine is still attached to a decoupler causes the decoupler to become nonfunctional. I wish I had known this before I sent my latest high-tech space probe on a collision course with the moon.
really?  even when you select the decoupler manually with the mouse, instead of through the staging sequence?

Yep, and it probably didn't help that it was a nuclear rocket with those weird engine shrouds. I ended up just editing the quicksave file so the decoupler exploded, after several attempts at performing rocket surgery with wack-a-kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 12, 2014, 05:22:20 pm
Rocket surgery: Its like surgery. With explosives.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 13, 2014, 03:22:00 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 12, 2014, 02:40:49 pm
By default it uses dry mass so you need to switch to wet mass if you're landing with non-empty fuel tanks. Also there is a limit to how much each parachute can handle.

It turns out that running a test on an engine while that engine is still attached to a decoupler causes the decoupler to become nonfunctional. I wish I had known this before I sent my latest high-tech space probe on a collision course with the moon.
I was landing a Science Jr with an mk1 pod and two goo capsules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrewas on September 13, 2014, 09:13:21 am
I've had plenty of craft come down very slowly after using 'current mass' after building the entire ship, but never had one come down too quickly. Make sure you've set it for Kerbin's atmosphere, if its calculating for Eve then it'll be too fast on Kerbin. Or if you were very aggressive with your deployment altitude then it wouldn't have time to slow down. Or if you're deploying a drogue chute rather than a main chute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 13, 2014, 10:03:13 am
Quote from: andrewas on September 13, 2014, 09:13:21 am
I've had plenty of craft come down very slowly after using 'current mass' after building the entire ship, but never had one come down too quickly. Make sure you've set it for Kerbin's atmosphere, if its calculating for Eve then it'll be too fast on Kerbin. Or if you were very aggressive with your deployment altitude then it wouldn't have time to slow down. Or if you're deploying a drogue chute rather than a main chute.
Everything is ok, no idea why it did that. I just ended up using a lot of normal parachutes.
And now im trying to build a plane for Fine Print which isn't working either because, as with all of my planes, FAR just tears it apart if I try to turn. And from my previous experience with FAR, I know that no amount of goddamn struts is going to keep it from deconstructing it anyway

E:
Alright, if I go really slowly I do survive, but even then the plane has a tendency to just become completely uncontrollable. I'm using SP+ btw.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2014, 10:25:09 am
Well just go slowly and far won't break you up. A craft should flight fine at 150 to 200 ms without disassembling, to 300 for extremely well built jets, to 1600 if flown in a straight line
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 13, 2014, 10:32:51 am
Dammit, I have three prepaid cards left, all together they have enough to buy it from the Humble Store, but none of them have it individually and I'm not sure if they'd be accepted anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 13, 2014, 10:37:44 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2014, 10:25:09 am
Well just go slowly and far won't break you up. A craft should flight fine at 150 to 200 ms without disassembling, to 300 for extremely well built jets, to 1600 if flown in a straight line
Hm, I guess. That makes it take ages to get anywhere, though.

Hmm, should how high should I fly?

And I can't keep my plane at cruise control either, because it's either speed up slightly or slow down, i can't hit the inbetween
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2014, 11:46:00 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 13, 2014, 10:37:44 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2014, 10:25:09 am
Well just go slowly and far won't break you up. A craft should flight fine at 150 to 200 ms without disassembling, to 300 for extremely well built jets, to 1600 if flown in a straight line
Hm, I guess. That makes it take ages to get anywhere, though.

Hmm, should how high should I fly?

And I can't keep my plane at cruise control either, because it's either speed up slightly or slow down, i can't hit the inbetween

Well one problem at a time :)

To travel in a straight line I suggest single engine bunny hopping:

Set far to level wings, use asas to reach 10km then shift+arrow up to trim control so plane tends to raise nose slightly and this should make you fly up and down between 10k and 20k don't get too much fixated with an altitude as the plane will tend to climb in denser air and descend when hitting stratosphere

So you use this mode which is not level flight but stable oscillation to travel around the world

When need to hit a waypoint, shut engine till you are at 400km/s then descend with engine off in denser air, gently and in circles. Do not roll 90deg as that will just flat spin you, instead roll 45 and put nose at -10, then keep circling until desired altitude


Planes take load of time because you cannot warp, that's why I don't use ssto anymore :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 13, 2014, 11:53:33 am
BFEL suddenly feels awesome for making 90 degree roll-able planes at around 600m/s

Yes that is with FAR and SP+. Also Interstellar.
I...think I'm experimenting with thermal turbojets a bit too much now :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 13, 2014, 11:55:22 am
Hm, I may have forgotten about the FAR flight assistance thingies. :V

But thanks for the advice, I seem to be doing pretty well now.

E: Also, I'm using two under-wing engines.

E2:
(http://img.ie/enuyz.png)
\o/

Now I just have to crash-land the plane since I accidentally deployed the parachutes already and I have no landing gear yet.
Sorry Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2014, 12:12:03 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 13, 2014, 11:53:33 am
BFEL suddenly feels awesome for making 90 degree roll-able planes at around 600m/s

Yes that is with FAR and SP+. Also Interstellar.
I...think I'm experimenting with thermal turbojets a bit too much now :P

well depends, I have pretty agile fighter replica as well, but any plane that has to ship payload in keo ends up glitchy, because all of the center of mass changes
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 13, 2014, 12:53:29 pm
What I really want is a mod that shows your centre of mass/lift/thrust in flight so you can balance fuel accordingly. I find it hard to believe that no one's done that yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 13, 2014, 12:59:52 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 13, 2014, 12:53:29 pm
What I really want is a mod that shows your centre of mass/lift/thrust in flight so you can balance fuel accordingly. I find it hard to believe that no one's done that yet.

I think the closest you're going to get is TAC fuel balancer, which will just balance your fuel in tanks of your choosing. It's up to you to figure out where your tanks should be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ygdrad on September 13, 2014, 05:57:23 pm
I've only recently started playing and am using FAR. Having some knowledge of how planes work I had no issues creating crafts that could stay in one piece. all those graphs during assembly give you almost all the info you need. Manley explained some of them in one of his videos if you don't understand all the numbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNSXAHLX0Uk

Aerodynamics is pretty important with FAR and so you want to have as little stuff as possible attached to the wings so you don't add extra stress with drag. Also, if you're using FAR, it is a good idea to use Ferram's other mod, Kerbal Joint Reinforcement http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55657-0-24-2-Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement-v2-4-3-7-25-14

If you're still having issues, FAR does offer some nice flight assistance options to help keep you from tearing up the plane, just don't expect miracles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 13, 2014, 08:36:44 pm
4.8km long runway. Space? Say hello to runway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 13, 2014, 08:40:55 pm
WTF crazy mod is that?
Apparently all Kerbal engineers are as crazy as the rocket ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 13, 2014, 09:03:23 pm
Kerbin Side
Look at the pretty aircraft carriers. Happy day.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 13, 2014, 10:32:06 pm
Link please!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 14, 2014, 12:39:38 am
Just google it bud.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82785-0-24-x-Kerbin-Side-v0-35-It-s-Cold-Outside
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 12:20:28 pm
My last iteration in landership:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

it is expensive (100k@7x costs) but I can recover all of it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 14, 2014, 01:07:49 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 12:20:28 pm
it is expensive (100k@7x costs) but I can recover all of it

Um...maybe not?
That heatshield doesn't look large enough to cover up all of that, especially those legs, so you might not recover as much as you think :P

Actually, looking at it again you might not recover ANY of it because that is gonna want to flip over to have the wrong end pointing down when you try to come back through the atmosphere, so that heatshield actually looks pretty useless in my experience.
Had that problem with a million dollar station core that was supposed to have the boosters return to the planet, instead they flipped end over end and died in a fire :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 01:37:40 pm
Tested and works :)

There is that smaller heatshield on the four tanks which is enough to protect and stabilize the thing.

Only issue is that needs to land on solid ground or with empty tanks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 14, 2014, 01:40:12 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 01:37:40 pm
Tested and works :)

There is that smaller heatshield on the four tanks which is enough to protect and stabilize the thing.

Only issue is that needs to land on solid ground or with empty tanks
Well I guess I was wrong then :P
And adding a few more chutes should let you waterland without issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 14, 2014, 02:17:59 pm
On the topic of landers, I made my first one that I think may actually not explode horribly:
(http://img.ie/2h8j5.png)
(I selected the Mun in reference bodies)

Those monoprop engines really are OP.
The idea here is to land and take off without the bottom tank/lander legs. Then drop the top tank during reentry, although that may not that great of an idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 14, 2014, 02:31:38 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 14, 2014, 02:17:59 pm
Those monoprop engines really are OP.
The idea here is to land and take off without the bottom tank/lander legs. Then drop the top tank during reentry, although that may not that great of an idea.
I tried something similar and OH MY BALLS did it not go the way I thought it would. Those engines aren't as OP as you think...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 14, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
The monoprop engines aren't very efficient, and with only two you aren't taking advantage of their infinite TWR. If you replaced the RCS with the equivalent sized fuel tanks and used an LV-909 you could probably squeeze out almost twice the delta-v.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 14, 2014, 03:26:01 pm
Today I learned that there is someone who does humanised KSP fanart and has some sort of Toblerone fetish.
Some good learnings there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 04:16:19 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 14, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
you aren't taking advantage of their infinite TWR.


that makes me wonder, what would you obtain if the RCS tank would had a dry mass of 0 tons? infinite dv? finite dw until the last drop where twr becomes infinite? ah, maths and limits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 14, 2014, 04:38:28 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 14, 2014, 04:16:19 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 14, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
you aren't taking advantage of their infinite TWR.


that makes me wonder, what would you obtain if the RCS tank would had a dry mass of 0 tons? infinite dv? finite dw until the last drop where twr becomes infinite? ah, maths and limits.

dV goes to infinity as dry mass (including engines) goes to zero.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 15, 2014, 01:39:55 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on September 14, 2014, 10:05:44 pm

So, apparently I can make spaceplanes that reach orbit easily!
The problem is re-entry. No dangerous re-entry mods installed, only FAR.
See, in the upper atmosphere I find no way to grip enough air to slow my plane down. I rarely have a brief window of control (albeit very sluggish, difficult control) and slight monitored slowing down around 37.5-40k. Then, the ship looses control completely and starts spinning while face-slamming the thick atmosphere at 2+ km/s. Anyone know how to fix this?

Dumb FAR, allowing my spaceplanes to enter orbit easily and giving me hope about how I might've actually designed something that works, then tearing them up in re-entry.

*walks away, grumbling*

A simple and dumb way to address this is to shuttlecock. Give your plane a long, fancy tail, extending far behind the CoM. That way you might retain some form of aerodynamic direction, if not stability, when you reenter. Try not to have extra lifing surfaces up front, too. If you need them to take off, then move them to the tail instead - the extra leverage should make it possible to take off anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on September 15, 2014, 01:43:47 am
Quote from: Cmega3 on September 14, 2014, 10:05:44 pm

So, apparently I can make spaceplanes that reach orbit easily!
The problem is re-entry. No dangerous re-entry mods installed, only FAR.
See, in the upper atmosphere I find no way to grip enough air to slow my plane down. I rarely have a brief window of control (albeit very sluggish, difficult control) and slight monitored slowing down around 37.5-40k. Then, the ship looses control completely and starts spinning while face-slamming the thick atmosphere at 2+ km/s. Anyone know how to fix this?

Dumb FAR, allowing my spaceplanes to enter orbit easily and giving me hope about how I might've actually designed something that works, then tearing them up in re-entry.

*walks away, grumbling*
Most likely your angle of attack was wacko during re-entry, a few degree off and you are spinning out of control. Also using RCS and strong enough reaction wheel force to keep you steady dring re-entry. I personally never go more than 6-7 degree and making sure my plane is fully aligned with the horinzon ( Using mechjeb to *lock* the plane) untill my speed is more manageable, re-entry can be quite long but its safe nonetheless
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on September 15, 2014, 07:39:49 am
Center of mass is also important. Remember it's likely much different from when you took off, and even significantly different from the last time you touched any notable amount of atmosphere. For the most stable flight charictaristics, on most planes (obviously depends on your design, but unless you've got something completely wacky it should work) you want most of your weight up front. Before reentry transfer any remaining fuel to your forward fuel tanks. Not applicable if you're gliding in on empty, but most people don't design their space planes to be THAT efficient.

Also, remember, shallow glide slope. A lot of things you could get away with in a capsule, you can't do with wings and FAR. Hit the upper atmosphere, stay there a while, you may not feel like you have a lot of control, but with patience you can use it to change your course and glide slope even at 40-50km, let it slow you down before you hit the thick soupy cement that is the lower atmosphere.

Also, I completely forget if it's modeled this way in KSP or FAR, but one thing surprised me at first when I used to play Orbiter and was trying to do reentries with winged craft. At high speeds and altitudes, you get the most lift with only a slight nose up attitude. Not more than 10-15 degrees nose up. Nose up more than about 35-45 degrees and you quickly begin losing lift and slowing down faster. I don't describe it well here, but it always felt a little counterintuitive while I was doing it. But it sort of makes sense if you think about it since you're basically forcing a stall and losing all the lift your wings generate. Might be something to think about if you're trying to do those 80-90 degree pancake reentries that science fiction keeps trying to tell us the space shuttle did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 11:18:21 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 14, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
The monoprop engines aren't very efficient, and with only two you aren't taking advantage of their infinite TWR. If you replaced the RCS with the equivalent sized fuel tanks and used an LV-909 you could probably squeeze out almost twice the delta-v.
Replacing them with LV-909's actually reduces my delta-V to about 1150 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 11:30:41 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 11:18:21 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 14, 2014, 02:57:04 pm
The monoprop engines aren't very efficient, and with only two you aren't taking advantage of their infinite TWR. If you replaced the RCS with the equivalent sized fuel tanks and used an LV-909 you could probably squeeze out almost twice the delta-v.
Replacing them with LV-909's actually reduces my delta-V to about 1150 m/s.
Actually, I think there may be something wrong with kerbal engineer's fuel sim, since adding one 909 to the bottom gives me less dv than two 909's on the sides...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on September 15, 2014, 11:32:18 am
Well, it make sense, doesn't it? You're adding extra weight to the craft after all. You'll have higher acceleration, sure, but less overall dV.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on September 15, 2014, 11:43:56 am
No, no, the other way around: Less engines give him less delta-v.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 11:45:22 am
Two engines should have higher acceleration and twr but lower dv than one (since they, consume twice the fuel)
Turns out liquid fuel doesn't naturally flow up, while monoprop is magically present everywhere in the craft.

I fixed this and this is the current incarnation:
(http://img.ie/laonn.png)
I use fuel lines to feed fuel to two girders that I have mounted two 48-7S engines on.
The picture lacks the goo capsules and the solar panels.

This setup breaks Kerbal Engineer though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on September 15, 2014, 12:13:57 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 11:45:22 am
Two engines should have higher acceleration and twr but lower dv than one (since they, consume twice the fuel)
Turns out liquid fuel doesn't naturally flow up, while monoprop is magically present everywhere in the craft.
Not quite.  They consume fuel twice as fast, but they produce twice the thrust and have the same fuel economy.  In effect, if you add multiple engines of the same type, then you get the same fuel efficiency, but higher acceleration.

IF they weigh nothing.  Going from one engine to two adds more weight, in the form of the engine, even if there's no other parts added, the engine does weigh something, and that does reduce Dv because it does add weight.  Depending on your design, it may not change much, and the extra speed may be worth it, but it IS a difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
I FUCKING DID IT
I LANDED ON THE MOON
AND NOT A "LANDING" THIS TIME, A PROPER LANDING WHERE THE SHIP DOESNT TOPPLE OVER
YESSSSS

Spoiler: big images (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 12:55:14 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
I FUCKING DID IT
I LANDED ON THE MOON
AND NOT A "LANDING" THIS TIME, A PROPER LANDING WHERE THE SHIP DOESNT TOPPLE OVER
YESSSSS
Yeah, with all those craters and gravity that Mun is a BITCH to get right. I generally have to quicksave/load repeatedly to do so.
Seriously though, FUCK the Mun. Go to Minmus instead. Its nice there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 01:05:04 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 12:55:14 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
I FUCKING DID IT
I LANDED ON THE MOON
AND NOT A "LANDING" THIS TIME, A PROPER LANDING WHERE THE SHIP DOESNT TOPPLE OVER
YESSSSS
Yeah, with all those craters and gravity that Mun is a BITCH to get right. I generally have to quicksave/load repeatedly to do so.
Seriously though, FUCK the Mun. Go to Minmus instead. Its nice there.
I did like 5 attempts, before determining that the place I wanted to land was too sloped and moving to another place like a kilometre above the surface, with the last fuel of my "transfer" stage (that really was only used to kill horizontal velocity and keep it dead).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 01:12:18 pm
On that note, has anyone else tried to do IRONKERBAL mode yet? I.E. use the debug menu to disable reverts/quicksaves/crew revives?

I tried and OH GOD that was horrible. In this version it is apparently entirely possible to lose Kerbal Space Program...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:13:50 pm
I kind of do, lost jeb and bill to food shortage and electric charge shortage respectively

But they set the capsule on reentry course with chute opened so at least science wasn't wasted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 01:19:20 pm
I lost both those guys as well in my current game, though I'm playing with reverts and quicksaves, I turned off respawns.

Jeb died in I think the first mission because I was unaware G-forces were deadly in my modset. Bill died shortly thereafter to...I forget what he died of. Probably something similar.
Then I lost those two other kerbals in the infamous first trip to Eve because Bob is a bastard and ejected them (IT WAS TOTALLY ALL BOB! I AM BLAMELESS :P)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:21:33 pm
Uh I think we have sinilar modsets.

Here's mine: http://pastebin.com/6fqTCcDQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 01:49:40 pm
LOL, you have WAYYYY more mods then I do right now.

Mine are pretty much Interstellar, TAC life support, Deadly Reentry, FAR, Fine Print, and SP+

How's Extraplanetary Launchpads coming along anyway? I tried that a few versions ago and never got to use it because fuckhueg Launchpad thing that I had no idea how to get into orbit. Or how to attach it to the other things it needed. Basically I couldn't figure it out XD. Loved the idea though.
Does it still need Kethane as a dependency? (In my opinion Kethane has been outstripped by Interstellar now that the later added its own, better, refineries.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 15, 2014, 01:52:26 pm
i liked kethane because i could make a refueling station in minmus orbit, drop down landers, have the landers process kethane into fuel on site, load up even more kethane, drop that to the orbiter and land back for some delicious mining

but then i haven't played for aeons because my toaster's pretty much an explosive barrel nowadays so recommend me things that lower load (graphics, most urgently)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:54:25 pm
kethane or kerbonite, it is used for the ore deposit stuff.

I don't use them that much but it is convenient for launching small probe off minmus. I still prefer to launch and assembly in orbit however.

they seem much but many are small mods, like compartment tubes, just a part or two for a specific use.

those are awesome btw:
Spoiler: compartment tubes (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Teneb on September 15, 2014, 01:58:04 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:21:33 pm
Uh I think we have sinilar modsets.

Here's mine: http://pastebin.com/6fqTCcDQ
Hopefuly you won't mind if I use this as a list of mods to get when I re-attempt to really get into KSP again, as I have no idea where to start when it comes to KSP mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 15, 2014, 01:58:57 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:54:25 pm
kethane or kerbonite, it is used for the ore deposit stuff.

I don't use them that much but it is convenient for launching small probe off minmus. I still prefer to launch and assembly in orbit however.

they seem much but many are small mods, like compartment tubes, just a part or two for a specific use.

those are awesome btw:
Spoiler: compartment tubes (click to show/hide)

That looks incredibly neat, link please?

Also I use Karbonite because FOSS turns me on :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 15, 2014, 01:59:36 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61040-0-23-6S-Service-Compartment-Tubes-Design-smooth!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 15, 2014, 04:01:43 pm
Hey does anyone know where I could find some online interactive version of the Interstellar tech tree? Or something similar? Hard to know where certain things are in it, y'know?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 15, 2014, 06:10:33 pm
Quote from: Cmega3 on September 15, 2014, 06:08:39 pm
So, while mucking with mods, I...
I...
I acci- accidentally deleted the NASA mission folder. And I have the Steam version so no idea how to get it back.

What have I done?
Verify integrity of game cache?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 15, 2014, 06:57:43 pm
Delete the .exe and it should redownload that along with any other missing files, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 15, 2014, 07:39:56 pm
Thats why you don't use Steam my hapless underling.

/me smiles the smile of the Steam-Hater who was right in detesting Steam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 15, 2014, 07:47:23 pm
Did you read my post? There's an extremely easy solution that doesn't involve redownloading the entire game.

This is completely and utterly the worst game to hate using steam for. The steam version is completely DRM free, requires you to download less, does not require steam to run and has a better download client than KSP without it does anyway. I cannot think of a single disadvantage to using Steam for this game other than some predisposed hatred of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 15, 2014, 07:54:55 pm
Wait, KSP has a download client?

Well, thats another thing to be smug for not using.

Why yes, I am a asshole. But frankly, any program that eats up over two years of game budget after a WEEK of having a game by deciding that Im not allowed to play it anymore (When I have the fucking disk!) is gonna earn my ire forever more. $80 does not grow on any tree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 15, 2014, 09:39:50 pm
You try to contact support for that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ygdrad on September 16, 2014, 01:40:50 am
Quote from: greatorder on September 15, 2014, 11:24:11 am
I've found my spaceplanes can rarely ever actually launch off the runway. They get to the end of the runway before being able to take off due to the ground suddenly disappearing.

They work fine otherwise. Until they enter a death spiral for no reason, or an engine cuts out and sends me into a death spiral. Or something explodes and sends me into a death spiral.

The trick to taking off is keeping the flaps in charge of pitch at the back so that the rear landing gear is situated between the flaps and the center of mass and you get a lever-action when trying to pull up. If your rear gear is behind your pitch flaps, you'll never lift off the runway. Also, for optimal control, I suggest separating the different controls so each set of flaps only controls one aspect, for example, horizontal tail flaps for pitch, tail fin(s) for yaw, wing flaps for roll.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 16, 2014, 01:55:56 am
The trick to taking off is actually being nose up on the runway. Just make your landing gear in the back shorter than on the front, and you'll be in a stable take-off arrangement that should take off by itself without much input from you.

Also, if you do use a nose-down arrangement (so as to land with less bouncing, and less chance of tailstrike), then you have to put your landing gear exactly below the center of mass, or juuuust behind it. That way the "lever action" from the pitch controls will have its pivot in the exact spot where it is most balanced.

And of course you can use canards to pitch up on take-off, especially if you're nose-heavy, but canards will really make it hard for you to reenter empty - too much lift and drag up front will cause you to tumble at the slightest deviation from "straight forward".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 16, 2014, 02:00:32 am
option 1: tilt whole plane so that it naturally points up:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

option 2: place rear wheel just behind center of mass and leave enough clearance for the rear wings to push the tail down:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ygdrad on September 16, 2014, 02:59:53 am
I've noticed that air intakes can be closed and retain their air even after exiting into space, allowing you to use jet engines in space for a short time. Is there any way, stock or modded, to store air aside from the intakes' small amount?

Edit: I know that the jet engines run on something like 15:1 air to liquid fuel ratio and that this would probably be pretty inefficient weight and size-wise to hold 16 times as much air as fuel. I'm not looking for a full load of air, just something to help the engines keep going at those higher altitudes and make a few small corrections once up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 16, 2014, 03:11:40 am
Quote from: Ygdrad on September 16, 2014, 02:59:53 am
I've noticed that air intakes can be closed and retain their air even after exiting into space, allowing you to use jet engines in space for a short time. Is there any way, stock or modded, to store air aside from the intakes' small amount?

Sure, Firespitter even includes some air tanks. The problem is that jet engines don't work in space, even with an internal air supply. The thrust the jet engines give off curves downward at extreme altitudes and speeds, leaving it at some infinitesimal amount once you get to space. You can see it in action if you turn on infinite fuel and try to fly a plane to duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ygdrad on September 16, 2014, 03:35:57 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on September 16, 2014, 03:11:40 am
Quote from: Ygdrad on September 16, 2014, 02:59:53 am
I've noticed that air intakes can be closed and retain their air even after exiting into space, allowing you to use jet engines in space for a short time. Is there any way, stock or modded, to store air aside from the intakes' small amount?

Sure, Firespitter even includes some air tanks. The problem is that jet engines don't work in space, even with an internal air supply. The thrust the jet engines give off curves downward at extreme altitudes and speeds, leaving it at some infinitesimal amount once you get to space. You can see it in action if you turn on infinite fuel and try to fly a plane to duna.

Are you talking from experience there? I know the jet engines shouldn't work well at all in space, but a lot of things in the base game seem to work oddly or be powered by witchcraft and prayers, so I thought I could at least get some small use out of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 16, 2014, 05:38:26 am
I HAVE gotten an Air Tank powered Jet Craft to space and the Jet Engines DO work.
Just not very well, like, at all.
Like, Ion Engine level power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 16, 2014, 06:43:40 am
Speaking of ion engines, does xenon for those work like normal fuel or monoprop? I.E. can I leave my xenon in a cargobay unconnected to the actual engines or do I need a bit of a redesign?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 16, 2014, 07:10:33 am
It's vessel-wide, so no need for fuel lines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 16, 2014, 08:16:03 am
Oh fuck, that's awesome!
Now I can just tack two to the back of my craft and I'm in business!

Well, once I can actually AFFORD said craft :P

So I made the "Surveyor II" aircraft and holy balls, this thing is an improvement over pretty much EVERYTHING in the original, and the original was the best plane I've made yet.

This one uses a cargo bay to store all the science experiments it can do (temperature, atmospheric, seismic) as well as its radiators, precooler, and six of the radioisotope generators. And its transmitter.
Not only that, but this one is MOAR STABLE then the last iteration, as well as being perfectly agile. I can do goddamn barrel rolls in this thing at mach 3 (note: not actually tested, but looks likely)

Its slower then its predecessor, but this is actually a good thing, because hitting mach 2 and 3 at "I want to land this thing" altitudes isn't good for...well for landing.

Only problem is a issue with the cargo bay not closing. I seem to have an outdated version of that particular Firespitter plugin. Anyone know an up to date one?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 16, 2014, 01:25:14 pm
I landed on minmus.
Spoiler: What a great view (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 16, 2014, 01:30:44 pm
Why arent you using the shiny pod of shiny? (ALCOR pod)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 16, 2014, 01:36:44 pm
What is so special about ALCOR? The stock lander pod(s) always worked great for me, especially after I installed RPM and its IVA overhauls and external cameras.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 16, 2014, 01:56:20 pm
Lots of extra screens for the pilot and the crew in general, plus its so friggin shiny, and the fact that its designed to be flown entirely from within.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 17, 2014, 07:31:30 am
Witness this clever guy reusing an engine across stages the kerbalest way

http://www.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erkki on September 17, 2014, 07:41:55 am
Hmm.... I have a bit of an issue. I downloaded this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68429-0-24-2-Kerbin-Shuttle-Orbiter-System-v4-09 and I'm now enjoying the following bug: the load button in VAB and SPH does nothing:

I'm running:
Windows 7 64bit
4 gb ram + 4 gb video ram

latest KSP with 3 mods: MechJeb(works), Enhanced Visuals thing(city lights on Kerbin and clouds on some planets) + that Shuttle mod


-----------------------------------


Standard KSP does not make it through the load so I have to manually start the 64bit one. Anyway, the parts and shuttles seem to work perfectly.

But here is the problem: when launching a craft I have all the vessels from VAB and SPH showing up and all the ones included in this mod seem to load. But in VAB and SPH themselves, I cant load any vessels. I can build and save them, but clicking on the load button does nothing. KSP does register the click, or at least the button is animated when clicked. The only way to load a craft seems to be launching one and then reverting the flight.

I guess this COULD be because the one or more craft files included have part(s) that I dont have but since no one else seems to have had this problem, I'm not so sure. I also tried to create a new sandbox career and start from scratch but nope. I also started a new one with no craft files at all(manually deleted them from the save folders) to no avail.

The latest thing I've tried is that I downloaded only 3/4 of the mod(leaving space station parts out) to make it lighter... But yet again to no help. I suppose this issue could have a simple solution, but I failed to find help on KSP forums.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 17, 2014, 08:12:12 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 17, 2014, 07:31:30 am
Witness this clever guy reusing an engine across stages the kerbalest way

http://www.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse

I...that is fucking brilliant. WHERE IS THIS MANS MEDAL?

Also, how is he blowing up the spent stages like that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 17, 2014, 08:18:28 am
Not all mods are compiled against 64bit so you likely have problems there. 64 bit is also a buggier mess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrewas on September 17, 2014, 11:03:47 am
Quote from: BFEL on September 17, 2014, 08:12:12 am
Also, how is he blowing up the spent stages like that?

Sepratrons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 17, 2014, 11:17:44 am
Quote from: BFEL on September 17, 2014, 08:12:12 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 17, 2014, 07:31:30 am
Witness this clever guy reusing an engine across stages the kerbalest way

http://www.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse

I...that is fucking brilliant. WHERE IS THIS MANS MEDAL?

Also, how is he blowing up the spent stages like that?
Sepatrons
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 17, 2014, 07:34:10 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 17, 2014, 08:12:12 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 17, 2014, 07:31:30 am
Witness this clever guy reusing an engine across stages the kerbalest way

http://www.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse

I...that is fucking brilliant. WHERE IS THIS MANS MEDAL?

Also, how is he blowing up the spent stages like that?

The guy who invented it is here (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/2gl1oj/i_call_it_blowtorch_staging/). That guy extended it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 01:57:31 am
I cannot into viewings of things on gfycat.com
What is it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 18, 2014, 02:18:11 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 01:57:31 am
I cannot into viewings of things on gfycat.com
What is it?

http://giant.gfycat.com/MediocreCoordinatedGallinule.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse.gif
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2014, 06:13:54 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 17, 2014, 11:17:44 am
Quote from: BFEL on September 17, 2014, 08:12:12 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on September 17, 2014, 07:31:30 am
Witness this clever guy reusing an engine across stages the kerbalest way

http://www.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse

I...that is fucking brilliant. WHERE IS THIS MANS MEDAL?

Also, how is he blowing up the spent stages like that?
Sepatrons
No I mean how is he exploding the inline fuel tanks to get them out of the way of the engines? They just seem to disappear/explode when I have never seen fuel tanks do that...
EDIT: Ok, they explained on the creators reddit thing, whoops.
Apparently pointing seperatrons exhaust at a fuel tank does it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 18, 2014, 08:10:11 am
Yah, sepatrons have amazing exhaust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 11:22:11 am
Quote from: Putnam on September 18, 2014, 02:18:11 am
Quote from: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 01:57:31 am
I cannot into viewings of things on gfycat.com
What is it?

http://giant.gfycat.com/MediocreCoordinatedGallinule.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/ConfusedVibrantAndalusianhorse.gif
Oh.
That's pretty cool. Whether it's worthwhile is arguable, but it's definitely an impressive piece of design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 18, 2014, 03:51:28 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 11:22:11 am
Oh.
That's pretty cool. Whether it's worthwhile is arguable, but it's definitely an impressive piece of design.

so is he docking that engine to the bottom of his stack each time?  What is the advantage over radially mounted tanks? 

Do in-line tanks not add as much air resistance now, or do parts still have a flat air resistance no matter how they are mounted?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 18, 2014, 03:53:53 pm
Well, it looks awesome
What other reason is needed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 03:55:02 pm
Quote from: puke on September 18, 2014, 03:51:28 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 11:22:11 am
Oh.
That's pretty cool. Whether it's worthwhile is arguable, but it's definitely an impressive piece of design.

so is he docking that engine to the bottom of his stack each time?  What is the advantage over radially mounted tanks? 

Do in-line tanks not add as much air resistance now, or do parts still have a flat air resistance no matter how they are mounted?
Engines have mass. Mass creates weight. Weight makes it harder to go upwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 18, 2014, 04:25:15 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 03:55:02 pm
Engines have mass. Mass creates weight. Weight makes it harder to go upwards.

Thats not exactly what I meant.  Let me try to be more clear:

In what way is a single engine with a tall stack of tanks, superior to a single engine with a number of radially mounted tanks (assuming the same total number of tanks).

Component wise, the radially mounted tanks would need decouplers and fuel lines.  the in-line stack would need seperatrons and docking ports.

Assuming those things are approximately a wash, there would be a major difference in air resistance for real world rockets.

In older versions of KSP, having a fuel tank pancake was no different then having a single stack.  Has this changed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 18, 2014, 04:41:34 pm
It's changed a little but not much and only really if you're also using the nosecones afaik. Tall rockets have a secondary issue that has not changed and that's balance. You'll be correcting the nose more in flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2014, 06:20:00 pm
Quote from: puke on September 18, 2014, 04:25:15 pm
In what way is a single engine with a tall stack of tanks, superior to a single engine with a number of radially mounted tanks (assuming the same total number of tanks).

Why not use both?

It starts asparagus and then takes up a blowtorch :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 18, 2014, 06:47:55 pm
KSP 0.25 is in Experimentals! (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/97737121684/milestone-reached-0-25-is-in-experimentals) This means the release can only be about 2 weeks off! Get hype!

For those who missed the post about what is in 0.25, most of it is detailed here. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/302-The-0-25-Plan) I'm really curious as to what the secret stuff is though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 18, 2014, 06:53:05 pm
So I tried using firespitter, B9 and MD Armory at the same time. The helicopter landing gears on Firespitter were weirdly large, and flat as paper, but only while flying.

BJ's VTOL engines fell off my fuselage without bouncing. I started the craft, and it began rolling on its own, with two struts stretching behind it like a couple of rubber bands. The craft started to violently spin in circles before the game crashed.

Mod incompatibilities, you so silly~
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2014, 06:57:37 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on September 18, 2014, 06:53:05 pm
The craft started to violently spin in circles before the game crashed.

Well I guess you got that helicopter after all :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 19, 2014, 02:59:52 pm
The general consensus is that it's destroyable (and possibly repairable) structures for the space center, and/or craterable terrain.

If that's the case, the next-gen feature it's tied to would presumably be constructing new bases, which would certainly be interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 19, 2014, 03:10:58 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on September 19, 2014, 02:59:52 pm
The general consensus is that it's destroyable (and possibly repairable) structures for the space center, and/or craterable terrain.

If that's the case, the next-gen feature it's tied to would presumably be constructing new bases, which would certainly be interesting.

O.O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 19, 2014, 04:14:52 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on September 19, 2014, 02:59:52 pm
The general consensus is that it's destroyable (and possibly repairable) structures for the space center, and/or craterable terrain.

If that's the case, the next-gen feature it's tied to would presumably be constructing new bases, which would certainly be interesting.
NNNNNNNNNNNGHHHHHHHH
My energy levels rised significantly while reading this, and I consequently started to vibrate.
Thankfully there was no resonance effect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 19, 2014, 04:27:20 pm
Last I heard any resources off-planet were on hold for an unknown time period.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on September 19, 2014, 04:44:38 pm
Destroyable and repairable space center buildings were on the planned feature list for a long time, but when was craterable terrain ever mentioned?

Based on how kerbals can fall though seams in a planets geometry, I would be surprised if this is something that is supportable without some major redesign.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 19, 2014, 05:29:29 pm
Quote from: puke on September 19, 2014, 04:44:38 pm
Destroyable and repairable space center buildings were on the planned feature list for a long time, but when was craterable terrain ever mentioned?

Based on how kerbals can fall though seams in a planets geometry, I would be surprised if this is something that is supportable without some major redesign.

I remember an interview where they said that the one thing they would want to do, but would be impossible would be craterable terrain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 19, 2014, 05:37:27 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on September 19, 2014, 05:29:29 pm
Quote from: puke on September 19, 2014, 04:44:38 pm
Destroyable and repairable space center buildings were on the planned feature list for a long time, but when was craterable terrain ever mentioned?

Based on how kerbals can fall though seams in a planets geometry, I would be surprised if this is something that is supportable without some major redesign.

I remember an interview where they said that the one thing they would want to do, but would be impossible would be craterable terrain.
By now I'm half expecting modders to prove them wrong.
I mean, they did a half-stable multiplayer for KSP already, so what next?
(the fact that I don't know the first thing about modding probably plays in that)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 19, 2014, 06:44:10 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on September 19, 2014, 02:59:52 pm
The general consensus is that it's destroyable (and possibly repairable) structures for the space center, and/or craterable terrain.

If that's the case, the next-gen feature it's tied to would presumably be constructing new bases, which would certainly be interesting.
Based on what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 20, 2014, 06:50:45 pm
New Kerbals who run aspects of your system (https://www.shacknews.com/article/86391/kerbal-space-program-introducing-administration-building-to-career-mode)
Anyone else think its kinda odd that the guy who is in charge of your reputation walks about in a biosuit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 20, 2014, 07:08:29 pm
why do you find it odd? You need proper equipment to handle toxic stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 20, 2014, 07:15:57 pm
Well, it might lead someone to think that all those NERVAs that we explode on the pad arent helping the environment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 20, 2014, 09:42:11 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on September 19, 2014, 06:44:10 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on September 19, 2014, 02:59:52 pm
The general consensus is that it's destroyable (and possibly repairable) structures for the space center, and/or craterable terrain.

If that's the case, the next-gen feature it's tied to would presumably be constructing new bases, which would certainly be interesting.
Based on what?

Absolutely nothing!

Well, we know it's something no mod has ever done before, which rules out a lot of things, but not that, and it was said that a good player will never see the new feature, and a bad one will see it a lot.

So, not nothing, but definitely not a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on September 20, 2014, 11:33:36 pm
That, and we know they've been preparing new content for it. So if you think about it, it kinda makes sense. Destructible KSC terrain and buildings.

Alternatively.... and this is possibly much more awesome...

Individual part damage. Crumpling, bending, one way or another being damaged without outright exploding.
I mean, we already know they've been making new explosion effects. This kinda seems related.

The reveal's next week. I wonder what other theories everyone will come up with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 21, 2014, 01:51:27 am
Loans fit the description as well and are close to the administrative building topic
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 21, 2014, 03:37:05 am
I dont see why they would be all hush-hush about loans, thats a fairly normal feature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rabidgam3r on September 21, 2014, 01:23:18 pm
I created a supersonic plane with twin jet engines and tiny fuel tanks. Turns out I have a knack for fuel-efficient planes, because it barely took a drop out of it in 17 minutes spent flying. I skipped off the atmosphere repeatedly, waited until the craft was engulfed in flames, and made Bill jump out.
I am a terrible person.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on September 21, 2014, 04:09:43 pm
http://imgur.com/a/B1BFN#12
Just found this again after almost a year. Someone had said it couldn't be done. I went and did it.
For the record, that's a manned Mun landing on 1200 units of fuel, or 3 T-400 tanks, the default 1.25m tank.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 23, 2014, 11:02:59 pm
The contract mod wants me to kick an E class asteroid on an escape trajectory from the sun and pays 2.4 million. No thanks. I'm not up for planning that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on September 24, 2014, 08:14:58 am
>The contract mod wants me to kick an E class asteroid on an
escape trajectory from the sun and pays 2.4 million. No
thanks. I'm not up for planning that.

That gave me an idea for an addon to multiplayer: the ability to transfer or subcontract contracts. Balancing would be a pain in the patookus, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 24, 2014, 09:19:54 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 23, 2014, 11:02:59 pm
The contract mod wants me to kick an E class asteroid on an escape trajectory from the sun and pays 2.4 million. No thanks. I'm not up for planning that.
Yeah, that is just silly. Making a ship with the amount of Dv needed for that would probably cost more then the payout.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 24, 2014, 11:10:16 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 24, 2014, 09:19:54 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 23, 2014, 11:02:59 pm
The contract mod wants me to kick an E class asteroid on an escape trajectory from the sun and pays 2.4 million. No thanks. I'm not up for planning that.
Yeah, that is just silly. Making a ship with the amount of Dv needed for that would probably cost more then the payout.

I guess I could always fund it with silliness like this 60 ton B9 engine tested in orbit that pays 4 million or so. Then I landed it back at KSC because it costs hundreds of thousands.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: I love the Fine Print mod. It gives great contracts. One of them wants an orbital station around Gilly built into a newly discovered class C asteroid. All for one million bucks. I hate you, Fine Print.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 04:41:35 pm
Probable 0.25 new feature reveal in 2-3 hours.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 26, 2014, 06:16:30 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 04:41:35 pm
Probable 0.25 new feature reveal in 2-3 hours.

Do you have a link?

EDIT: Nevermind, I realized it would just be on their twitch channel. Derp. For all those interested: http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv

EDIT2: It's starting, I'll summarize it here afterwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 06:30:06 pm
STARTING
4:30pm Pacific
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on September 26, 2014, 07:24:17 pm
Whelp. Seems like the Secret Feature is destroyable KSC buildings. WTF.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 07:26:03 pm
PREPARE FOR ASTEROIDS
THEY ARE ACTUALLY A THREAT NOW

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 26, 2014, 07:33:09 pm
Even the launchpad and the runway.

Like Maxmaps said though, there's a lot they can do with this, like upgradable buildings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
Thats beautiful...

Now they need to make it so that we can get new buildings across kerbin...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 07:37:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
Thats beautiful...

Now they need to make it so that we can get new buildings across kerbin...
Across Kerbin?! Across the UNIVERSE!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2014, 07:59:35 pm
Oh, holy mother of chrome. O_O
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 08:20:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 07:37:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
Thats beautiful...

Now they need to make it so that we can get new buildings across kerbin...
Across Kerbin?! Across the UNIVERSE!
I was talking about buying them, but thats a thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 26, 2014, 09:55:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 08:20:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 07:37:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
Thats beautiful...

Now they need to make it so that we can get new buildings across kerbin...
Across Kerbin?! Across the UNIVERSE!
I was talking about buying them, but thats a thing.
Across the universe? Yes, sir, that'd be nice.

Inb4 Gillyville
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2014, 09:58:41 pm
I can finally get that moon base. Note that I'm not specifying which moon. Minmus is the only one I can reliably land on so far. Ooh, extra-planetary refueling stations! :3
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 26, 2014, 10:23:08 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on September 26, 2014, 09:55:50 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 08:20:57 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 26, 2014, 07:37:37 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on September 26, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
Thats beautiful...

Now they need to make it so that we can get new buildings across kerbin...
Across Kerbin?! Across the UNIVERSE!
I was talking about buying them, but thats a thing.
Across the universe? Yes, sir, that'd be nice.

Inb4 Gillyville

I just realized that you were talking about building new buildings rather than picking up the current ones with rockets and moving them somewhere else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 28, 2014, 12:05:16 pm
Bleh, trying to get a fuel refinery into orbit. Tried to launch the whole thing at once, but it cost over $1.1 million, and kept crashing after dropping the first stage. The next one, I'm sending up one piece at a time and docking them. These are costing me about $150k a launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 28, 2014, 05:48:41 pm
Minmus is great for Extraplanetary Launchpads.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 29, 2014, 12:26:03 am
I prefer mun because minmus low gravity makes super hard driving heavy base pieces with rovers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 29, 2014, 12:50:30 am
Why drive on Minmus when you can hop?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 29, 2014, 07:02:19 am
Quote from: Akura on September 28, 2014, 12:05:16 pm
Bleh, trying to get a fuel refinery into orbit. Tried to launch the whole thing at once, but it cost over $1.1 million, and kept crashing after dropping the first stage. The next one, I'm sending up one piece at a time and docking them. These are costing me about $150k a launch.

And it didn't even work! It somehow managed to shake itself hard enough to blow up its solar array(the big, expensive one), despite having no reason to be moving. Trying to transfer to orbit from the ground via the logistics hub(MKS mod, I think, plus Karbonite) takes a day and an hour and loses 80% of the Karbonite. And launching the pieces was about $180k, not $150k.

The alternate solution was to launch a large fuel tank into orbit and dock to that, but that didn't work because it twisted around itself.

Argh, gonna just nuke all the failures and modify the savefile for some extra cash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 29, 2014, 11:52:42 am
A new Danny videos will probably be coming out tomorrow. Probably involving a new phantom force engine involving the... Klaw?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on September 29, 2014, 11:56:36 am
Quote from: miauw62 on September 29, 2014, 11:52:42 am
A new Danny videos will probably be coming out tomorrow. Probably involving a new phantom force engine involving the... Klaw?
H̼̯͉̩͍̤̕ͅE̱̼ ͓͕̰HĄ͖̭͉̫S͚͍͖̣̲̠͝ ̦̪̤̗͚U̢̲̙͇͓N̬̫͈̘̰̯ͅL̤͢O͕̝̱C̗̖̝̖K͉E̬̰͍͈ͅD͔͙̘̻̭̰͡ ̘͈̦I̦͎̟̼͈͡TS̡ ͇̩̝͉H̵͉̞̜͖͇ID̖͓͢D̴̩̥͕̹̱EN͏̬̘ ̛̩̦͙̤͖̬P̙͖͓̥͎͇O̞̱̘W̥E͙͓̭̘̤͎R̻̗
̥̕B̯̘̮̮͍̗Ų͚͓T̗͔̠͎͖ ͈͟T̶͓̘̫̞̦O ҉̲͎̞O̦̜̜̤͈̘͇͟PE̕R͔A͉͝T̯E̴̝̩͓̱̙̭ ̲̩̫̝̪IT̢̲̪,̶̜ ̨͇͍̤̱̮̳̙IT̯͉̘͖̯͈͉ ̮N̤̹͚̹̱͕͓Ḙ̖̙E̤̖͎̯̲̟̗͟D̨S̛͎̮ ͈̰̗̝̞̖ͅA҉͉̫͖̗̱̯ ̺̪̥̰̙S̀O̴̙U̞̞̻͇͈͈͖L
̮͍̳͎̭͔H̵̩E̲ ̸̦̠̤̹̱̘͍H͚̗̪̙̤͢A̴S̡̺̦̬̼ ͚̯̼̖̙̯̞͞FO̸̲̬̥̗̥͓ͅU̴͚̹̹̘̥̦͎ND̶͚̲̺ ҉͔̞̠̪ͅͅA͙̘͙ŅO̙͖̬̠̣T̹̘͈̀H͍͚̤̜E̲̰͎͕̼͕͘R ̷̺̦̙̠W̞̫͔͚͇͡A̜͕̩͕Y͉̫̲̞
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 29, 2014, 04:05:47 pm
I had to send up a science patch craft to the Mun with KAS enabled parts for a previous mission. One tall 1.25 tank and a Rapier plus ion powered probe worked like a charm. The xenon tank was only half full. Later I blew it up because Interstellar requires impacts for the seismometer. Best 20000 monies spent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Twi on September 30, 2014, 07:32:41 am
So has anyone used the new B9 stuff? Dem HX parts are ridiculohuge. :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 30, 2014, 09:35:16 am
I keep makeing ships only for them to crash when I go to change the name.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 30, 2014, 10:41:49 am
Quote from: Twi on September 30, 2014, 07:32:41 am
So has anyone used the new B9 stuff? Dem HX parts are ridiculohuge. :p

I only have 20 some million in the bank. Not yet ready to build big.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 30, 2014, 01:54:28 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 29, 2014, 04:05:47 pm
Later I blew it up because Interstellar requires impacts for the seismometer. Best 20000 monies spent.

So that's why I can't figure out the seismometer anymore! Damn it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 30, 2014, 02:32:29 pm
Quote from: Akura on September 30, 2014, 01:54:28 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on September 29, 2014, 04:05:47 pm
Later I blew it up because Interstellar requires impacts for the seismometer. Best 20000 monies spent.

So that's why I can't figure out the seismometer anymore! Damn it.

I think 6 is the proper number of impacts if you spread them out around the body your sensor is landed on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 05, 2014, 08:34:14 am
6 is also the number of seismic sensor you need if you want to make the most of a single impact.


edit: seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycFiYuIpev4

0.25 preview by Scott Manley

Spoiler: ehe (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 05, 2014, 10:59:18 am
As soon as I saw the asteroid I knew exactly what he was doing. He's a goon so of course he'd start the video with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 05, 2014, 11:19:32 am
Without a doubt, the most important and game-changing feature of this new release is the improved grass texture at KSC. The rest is just filler.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 05, 2014, 07:27:24 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 05, 2014, 11:19:32 am
Without a doubt, the most important and game-changing feature of this new release is the improved grass texture at KSC. The rest is just filler.  :P
Nah, it is obviously the appearence of Atlantis.
I want mods to add cities, so that I can have fun with asteroids.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 05, 2014, 07:28:55 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on October 05, 2014, 07:27:24 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 05, 2014, 11:19:32 am
Without a doubt, the most important and game-changing feature of this new release is the improved grass texture at KSC. The rest is just filler.  :P
Nah, it is obviously the appearence of Atlantis.
I want mods to add cities, so that I can have fun with asteroids.

KerbinSide is going to see how easy or hard it will be to make their alternate launchpads and such destructible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 05, 2014, 07:31:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 05, 2014, 07:28:55 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on October 05, 2014, 07:27:24 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on October 05, 2014, 11:19:32 am
Without a doubt, the most important and game-changing feature of this new release is the improved grass texture at KSC. The rest is just filler.  :P
Nah, it is obviously the appearence of Atlantis.
I want mods to add cities, so that I can have fun with asteroids.

KerbinSide is going to see how easy or hard it will be to make their alternate launchpads and such destructible.
Its not the same if I can't pretend that there are thousands of innocent kerbals in my way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 05, 2014, 11:40:34 pm
Wow. Pressing ALT to turn off surface attach. That will be brilliant.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2014, 02:30:15 am
Are they adding more hidden button without a corresponding UI?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 06, 2014, 02:52:20 am
It's a momentary button, so of course they do.

Even though I do occasionally feel the need for onscreen WASDQE controls, as well as CTRL, SHIFT, and ALT modifiers for clicking various things in different contexts, I am not really expecting these to ever be made. There just isn't need. You kinda need a keyboard to play this game anyway. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 07, 2014, 05:55:53 pm
That new version got released.

I'm in sandbox mode right now, and I have duplicates of all the old parts.

EDIT: I went into the Gamedata/Squad/Parts folder and deleted everything that was here before today, but the duplicates are still there. Fire Squad immediately
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 07, 2014, 06:39:41 pm
.25 has plenty of little frustrating things.

for example when you eva, the kerbal is propelled and never tick to the ladder. the old problem of the kerbal not being able to catch the ladder if oddly oriented in space is worsened, and all in all eva's have become extremely annoying.

the strategies seem a bit off as well: I have got both science strategies, converting 25% of prestige and 10% of cash on science, and I get 100% more science (at least by contracts) - I wonder if I enable them all I have a overall net gain of all three resources.

also it applies to cash advances which means you can take contract and unlock the science tree. works as intended probably, but.

also, sometime all the map become unresponsive, you cannot add nodes and cannot set targets

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 07, 2014, 06:42:58 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 07, 2014, 05:55:53 pm
That new version got released.

I'm in sandbox mode right now, and I have duplicates of all the old parts.

EDIT: I went into the Gamedata/Squad/Parts folder and deleted everything that was here before today, but the duplicates are still there. Fire Squad immediately

0.25 has duplicates for transitional reasons. Atmospheric parts all got tweaked with SpacePlane+. They will go away by 0.26 and all saves will be broken in some way when that happens. Vehicles will disappear that had those old parts. It's all by design.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 07, 2014, 06:48:02 pm
Also, some of the control surfaces, wings and fuselage show up as the old ones, even though they look fine during assembly.

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 07, 2014, 06:49:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This shows up when I try to download .25
WTF?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 07, 2014, 07:20:46 pm
From the launcher, the site or Steam?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 07, 2014, 07:22:57 pm
Yeah, the main site download server is under major pressure. I will likely end up waiting a total of 3-4 hours for mine. 1.5 hours to go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 07, 2014, 07:48:32 pm
the site yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 07, 2014, 08:21:52 pm
Luckily I got mine extra early. Lolololololol

The bug with the new parts that I mentioned before hasn't happened again, though. Not sure what that was all about.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 07, 2014, 08:41:47 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 07, 2014, 07:20:46 pm
From the launcher, the site or Steam?

Steam had problems that were fixed within minutes that were entirely the fault of Squad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 08, 2014, 01:36:19 am
Anyone have thoughts on TAC vs Interstellar Life Support?

I've been using TAC, but new version means time to restart csmpaign and I'm wondering what's best for LS mods...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on October 08, 2014, 08:34:11 am
Anybody else here playing Hard Mode?

I find it much more gratifying that when a mission goes wrong, I just have to take the loss, making the successes that much more meaningful.

EDIT: Aaaaaaaaand I just lost the game, with a catastrophic failure on the launch pad. Now I can't can't afford to repair the launch pad... Oh, i guess i could launch a rocket from the runway!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on October 08, 2014, 09:05:20 am
Man KSC is just filled with random bits of Science you can collect now, every "Complex" has science, and apparently every individual building has a bit of science you can nab, the original pod memorial has science, the bloody astronaut complex FLAG has science, hell even the bloody fuel tanks near the VAB have science, and much more. I got 150 science just having a bit of a wander about, and there is still a fair bit around KSC I could grab.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on October 08, 2014, 09:31:56 am
Quote from: Rilder on October 08, 2014, 09:05:20 am
Man KSC is just filled with random bits of Science you can collect now, every "Complex" has science, and apparently every individual building has a bit of science you can nab, the original pod memorial has science, the bloody astronaut complex FLAG has science, hell even the bloody fuel tanks near the VAB have science, and much more. I got 150 science just having a bit of a wander about, and there is still a fair bit around KSC I could grab.
Damn those research scientist are lazy.  I'm guessing that you are basically just gathering materials for them since they aren't able to walk to the nearby store.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 08, 2014, 10:05:42 am
I never did finish my download before I needed to shut down my computer and sleep. Not a big deal since I'm waiting on a few more mod dll's to be recompiled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 08, 2014, 11:37:20 am
I went with hard mode and added a starting reputation penalty. Now it's time for a fundraising campaign.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 08, 2014, 03:34:53 pm
So any idea if/when the mods will catch up to this? Could I reasonably port my mods over to .25 as is?

Because this is actually the first time I care enough to port a save, instead of just full on starting over :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 08, 2014, 03:41:18 pm
no, your saves are boned.  duplicate parts, wrong part sizes, all sorts of stuff.  Probably survivable, but will have some problems to work around.

Here is the mod compatibility list:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95750-Official-Mod-Compatibility-Thread-for-25
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 08, 2014, 03:50:52 pm
There are lots of mesh issues. Lots of mods borrow stock meshes and many of those are boned.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 09, 2014, 09:35:17 am
Yeah, I use TAC life support so very much boned. Also using the Spaceplane+ mod, which of course has its own undoubtedly hilarious set of issues with porting to .25 :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on October 09, 2014, 11:53:57 am
Unrelated to .25, has anyone else noticed that if you run R.A.P.I.E.R. engines at low thrust it sounds like a male choir, with sound pitch changing with thrust level?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 12:34:44 pm
Not at all.

However, I am slightly saddened that they dont have the button for surface attachment I thought that they said they would have...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on October 09, 2014, 12:44:08 pm
Wow jesus. Rocket science is easy. Aerodynamics is fuckin' impossible. I can't seem to make a plane that won't turn and crash on the tarmac without an hour and a half's work and twelve references.

What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 01:02:41 pm
Looking at center of lift and center of mass is your friend. Try to have center of lift smack-dab or just being the center of mass, DO NOT put it forward.
Also, reaction wheels are your friend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on October 09, 2014, 01:05:44 pm
Heh. I remember hearing about that center of lift in a video. Didn't even think of reaction wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 01:07:14 pm
SAS is your friend.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 09, 2014, 01:14:29 pm
I've finally tried out the new update properly, and here's what I noticed. Well, apart from that the refurbished spaceplane parts are awesome.

It's mostly about the new cargo bays. Firstly, an important difference is that you can't attach anything to the bay doors now. The reason for this is the second important difference, and that is that the doors now have a proper collider - if your have a bay that isn't quite high enough to clear the ground when it opens, it will prop your plane up on its hinges to do so. This leads into the third and most hilarious difference - the bay doors now stop exhaust plumes. If you have an engine running inside the bay, then as long as the doors are closed there will be no net thrust. Once they open, the thrust kicks in. This is a uniquely useful feature that will make landing jet-powered VTOLs a lot easier, as you can simply cut off the thrust instead of waiting for the engine to spin down.

Other than that... well, it's great, nothing else to say really.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot146.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot147.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot151.png)

Quote from: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 12:34:44 pm
Not at all.

However, I am slightly saddened that they dont have the button for surface attachment I thought that they said they would have...
It's not a button, it's a key. 'Alt'. And it's not a toggle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 01:24:48 pm
I included keys with buttons.

Also, its alt? Good to know.

Fricking wikis, not listing that... But to be fair, neither does the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 09, 2014, 01:27:17 pm
I didn't even think of using cargo bays for VTOLs, and almost all my quality jets are VTOL. Mirrsen, you're a damn genius.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 02:14:05 pm
You dont watch the channel of the guy who made the duna music, do you?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 09, 2014, 02:17:33 pm
Another side effect of the new cargo bays - open cargo bays make GREAT landing legs! They're damn near indestructible! Not really of course, but other parts of your ship will sooner fail from the G-stress of damper-less landing, than the open bay will break.

Kind of unconventional, but potentially useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 09, 2014, 02:17:52 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 02:14:05 pm
You dont watch the channel of the guy who made the duna music, do you?
What are you talking about? Duna music? Also, I barely watch any KSP videos except for Danny, so no.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 02:24:32 pm
Bagel Rabbit. He made a bunch of music that alot of people thing should be stock and that was featured on the KSP tumblr.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McMagma on October 09, 2014, 03:49:06 pm
I just bought the game which mods do you guys recomend? (0.25)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 09, 2014, 03:51:57 pm
Normally I would recommend B9 Aerospace, Active Texture Management and Interstellar, but those aren't updated to the new version yet, because it was only released two days ago. Patience is a virtue, my boy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 09, 2014, 03:56:07 pm
Start with stock.

Figure out what you want, and then add it slowly.  Most people who complain about stability and glitches are running heavily modded versions of the game.  Don't follow other peoples laundry list of "mandatory" mods.

And start without using MechaJeb or any of the other games that play the game for you. 

Design rockets without a tool telling you the thrust-to-weight ratio -- failure through experimentation is part of the fun.  Get into orbit without a computer plotting the vector for you, and without an autopilot keeping your rocket pointed straight.  Fight an unstable rocket with your own joystick or keyboard controls until it wobbles and falls apart.

Only automate things once you are so good at getting into orbit that it is routine and boring, or you'll miss half the fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 09, 2014, 03:56:35 pm
Wait a week for Firespitter and ATM.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nelia Hawk on October 09, 2014, 04:05:12 pm
if you are new i would say just play without mods for a while.

maybe start a career game up and take a look at everything.
check out what each building does... what each button does in the buildings. take a look at the missions you can get and try to complete them.
get used to how building rockets works. get used to how flying rockets works... the controls, SAS.
do missions.. research new parts to test and play around with. get used to advanced controls like RCS.
how to rendezvous with something in orbit and dock with it. transfer fuel/people.
learn how to use maneuvers. how to get to a mun. learn how to land on a mun. learn to fly to one, orbit one, launch/land on it and come back.
learn the science-y stuff with crew reports, surface samples, eva reports, goo canisters, antennae/communications/batteries etc... (rightclick lots of things)
learn to fly to other planets and plant a flag on each or mess with the (?) in space.

there is soooo much you can already do for weeks without even looking at mods.
and once you got used to all this basic vanilla stuff you could look at mods and see what you want to have added or improved for yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 09, 2014, 04:11:19 pm
Only mod I'd say that is necessary is the visual enhancements mod. Everything else is up to you, and you can choose to suit your playstyle. Personally, I only use KAS, Kethane, some interiors for Mark 3 and Mark 2 cockpits (haven't played .25, dunno if these are stock yet), procedural fairings and visual enhancements.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 04:35:57 pm
Ive just been using Raster prop monitor, the ALCOR cockpit and BD's Armory myself...
Dont bother with the armory unless you want to make battles tho, and even then, stock is more than enough.

KAS is almost required if you are gonna make big modular things, and B9 aerospace is really nice, although I am probably gonna ignore it now that we have better stock aircraft parts unless I cant find something smaller that comes with long landing gear.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 09, 2014, 05:07:52 pm
FAR might be a good choice to get used to if you're the kind of person who can't live without everything being HYPER REALISTICAL
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McMagma on October 09, 2014, 05:16:28 pm
I have already played this game before, I think it was alpha or something, there was no moon or planets or even orbits :P, But since then I watched alot of KSP related videos and whatnot, so I wouldn't say Im not a total newbie to the game, in the mean time I managed to land on the moon(Those hours lost watching ksp videos were worth).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 09, 2014, 05:22:57 pm
it's still alpha, sounds like you played the first or second version of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 10, 2014, 07:40:23 am
Well, if you're already on that level, then I once again suggest FAR. It makes aerodynamics actually...aerodynamic, instead of "lolol I can fly"

Other suggestions, once they update include Deadly Reentry, TAC Life Support, and probably KAS. This combination will give you a very realistic experience, and results in lots of learning, as well as plenty of exploding.

I also recommend Interstellar, because Interstellar is just amazing.

Basically if you watch Scott Manley videos (and you should) then these are the most important components of his "Interstellar Quest" modset.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 10, 2014, 07:53:30 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 10, 2014, 07:40:23 am
I also recommend Interstellar, because Interstellar is just amazing.

I'd like to counter-recommend the Near Future Technologies pack, especially if you're going for a "realistic" experience. Interstellar is anything but.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 10, 2014, 08:42:28 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 10, 2014, 07:53:30 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 10, 2014, 07:40:23 am
I also recommend Interstellar, because Interstellar is just amazing.

I'd like to counter-recommend the Near Future Technologies pack, especially if you're going for a "realistic" experience. Interstellar is anything but.
Interstellar is based on real theories. The addition of radiators and changes to the seismic experiment add challenges. It also doesn't work well yet in 0.25. The techtree mod it uses hasn't worked right since 0.23.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 10, 2014, 09:15:02 am
There is "based on real theories", and there is "based on real technological developments". NFT is based on real developments that simply haven't been put into general use yet. Hall, NEXT, HiPEP, DS4G, PIT, MPDT, VASIMR - they're all real thrusters that at the very least existed as prototypes at some point. And its nuclear reactors are much more reasonable and are wired into the regular craft electrical system, so they can work alongside the solar panels and the high-density capacitors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 10, 2014, 09:22:03 am
Quote from: McMagma on October 09, 2014, 03:49:06 pm
I just bought the game which mods do you guys recomend? (0.25)
Wait a bit until Kerbal Engineer updates, it's an incredibly useful mod that gives you a lot of useful numbers (Especially height above surface, which is incredibly useful for landings and knowing when to turn off the 4x physwarp when landing with parachutes) You can also get mechjeb but I don't really use it that much, especially not in career games.

That's really the only "essential" mod since I think the features of enhanced navball were made stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 10, 2014, 11:28:53 am
MechJeb is updated and gives you the numbers you might need. Engineer is often not updated and/or throws bad numbers at you in the VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 10, 2014, 11:30:58 am
That's odd, it seems good to me...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 10, 2014, 11:40:23 am
I've used Engineer and watched a lot of twitch streams. Many people use Engineer and I see them struggle with it fairly often. Every other stream someone is yelling at Engineer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 10, 2014, 11:43:24 am
KER works for me even when not updated. And it's already updated for 0.25 - I'm just lazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2014, 03:02:30 pm
And now for something completely different: Meet the Fright of Flight.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot164.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot165.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot170.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot175.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot177.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot179.png)

Yes, it flies. No, it has no wings or control surfaces. Yes, it takes off horizontally. No, those only two vertically-oriented engines in the front can't keep it flying by themselves. Yes, it can land. No, I didn't stick that landing on the first try. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 03:05:37 pm
thrust vectoring counts as control surfaces :I
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 11, 2014, 03:09:49 pm
I think it's more the ASAS modules. :P

I can give it a try with all gimbals disabled, if you like. ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
D'you guys have any mod wishes? Like, features you want in mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 11, 2014, 07:55:56 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
D'you guys have any mod wishes? Like, features you want in mods.

If the mods I already use stay usable in every future version with the features they have now, I would still be pretty damn happy. I mean we have Interstellar, KAS, FAR, TAC, and Deadly Reentry....what more do we really need?

I mean its obviously awesome that they keep adding MOAR, but frankly I'm already ecstatic about the features they have right now. They'll undoubtedly come up with something else to wow me, but I'm very content with the way KSP modding is overall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 11, 2014, 09:02:09 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
D'you guys have any mod wishes? Like, features you want in mods.

One thing which the game desperately needs is a way to view centre of mass/lift/thrust while in flight. I'd like for there to be less guesswork when balancing a spaceplane for landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 09:28:19 pm
Center of mass is what the camera's centered on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 12, 2014, 01:49:12 am
I want that mod that added differential thrust to be finished.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 12, 2014, 02:07:24 am
A realism mod which changes ISP scaling so it affects thrust rather than fuel consumption would probably be welcome. I don't think anyone's done that yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 12, 2014, 02:25:08 am
Thrust affects thrust.  Isp affects thrust-to-consumption ratio.

Is this not proper?  If Isp is just a thrust-to-weight ratio, it can be derived and does not need its own rating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2014, 02:35:04 am
Quote from: puke on October 12, 2014, 02:25:08 am
Thrust affects thrust.  Isp affects thrust-to-consumption ratio.

Is this not proper?  If Isp is just a thrust-to-weight ratio, it can be derived and does not need its own rating.
ISP affects thrust-to-consumption ratio, yes, but the point is that RL engines don't gain consumption for the same thrust when their ISP is changed by atmospheric pressure, they lose thrust, but still consume the same fuel.

Near Future Propulsion has implemented that change for its electric engines, but it rather breaks all existing atmospheric dV and TWR predictions by KER and MJ.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 12, 2014, 03:00:02 am
I'd like a mod that allows us to place some road (racetracks) or terrain (rover terrain testing) near the KSP.  Hopefully in a customizable way.  I spend quite a bit of time designing rovers and I've taken to trying to design some high speed jetcars reminicent of F-Zero.  A customizable place to properly test such things would be grand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2014, 03:09:10 am
They're not customizable, but the Kerbin-Side (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82785-0-25-Kerbin-Side-v0-37-We-re-Gonna-Need-a-Bigger-Boat) mod adds a whole lot of, well, Kerbin-side facilities for you to do test runs on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 12, 2014, 03:15:41 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on October 12, 2014, 02:07:24 am
A realism mod which changes ISP scaling so it affects thrust rather than fuel consumption would probably be welcome. I don't think anyone's done that yet.

Not quite exactly that, I think, but there is this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52882-0-24-2-Kerbal-Isp-Difficulty-Scaler-v1-4-8-14-14) mod, the ISP Difficulty Scaler.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 12, 2014, 03:16:53 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 12, 2014, 03:09:10 am
They're not customizable, but the Kerbin-Side (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82785-0-25-Kerbin-Side-v0-37-We-re-Gonna-Need-a-Bigger-Boat) mod adds a whole lot of, well, Kerbin-side facilities for you to do test runs on.

Me likey.  That will certainly spiffy things up.  Who knows I might be able to use it to refrence how to add structures of my own for potential of making my own buildings and roadways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 12, 2014, 03:49:08 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
D'you guys have any mod wishes? Like, features you want in mods.

porting and rebalancing of pre-0.2 goonparts would be pretty fucking great thanks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 12, 2014, 04:18:18 am
the only results for that on google is bay 12?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 12, 2014, 04:44:49 am
mostly because the entire fansite that stuff has been hosted on is 404d by now but okay

here's good ol' bfe5000 instead (https://web.archive.org/web/20130405065845/http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.net/downloads/BFE-5000.zip)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 12, 2014, 01:03:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 11, 2014, 07:03:44 pm
D'you guys have any mod wishes? Like, features you want in mods.

I'd like to have a bunch of miscellaneous kerbal-scale tools and stuff, like a freight container or KAS-ready jackhammer or maybe one of the carts that run around KCS. Then I could airdrop them or leave them around my moon base.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 12, 2014, 02:23:55 pm
Y'know what I always wanted to do? Recreate the opening scene from Heavy Metal in KSP. The one where a space shuttle drops a car from orbit and this somehow works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 12, 2014, 02:37:12 pm
Quote from: BFEL on October 12, 2014, 02:23:55 pm
Y'know what I always wanted to do? Recreate the opening scene from Heavy Metal in KSP. The one where a space shuttle drops a car from orbit and this somehow works.
Do it. And not parachutes. Radial engines to be simple, or if you feel adventurous, lithobraking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on October 12, 2014, 03:21:40 pm
Nah man, just drop that shit from orbit and make it badass enough to survive the fall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 12, 2014, 03:22:59 pm
Pufferfish, that is exactly what I mean. Although in the scene, the car DID use parachutes...for about a tenth of a second and then cut them :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 12, 2014, 09:43:17 pm
Suddenly I want to do a Kerbalfied version of the egg drop test.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on October 12, 2014, 09:56:00 pm
Quote from: Pufferfish on October 12, 2014, 03:21:40 pm
Nah man, just drop that shit from orbit and make it badass enough to survive the fall.

Quote from: The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries
Maxim Eleven: Everything is air-droppable at least once.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 13, 2014, 12:31:36 am
Design the car out of wings and control surfaces and land it on its wheels. Roll with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 02:26:47 am
So I think that I want to do a simulated mission to Mars with Real Solar System and a bunch of mods for realism.
So far I've got:

-Real Solar System (duh)
-FAR
-Deadly Reentry
-TAC life support
-Remote Tech
-Kerbal Attachment System (assuming it doesn't cause too many problems)
-Infernal Robotics
-KW Rocketry
-Near Future pack
-Firespitter (I only really want the electric propellers for flying drones)
-MechJeb
-Realchutes (maybe)

What I'm still looking for:

-A well balanced greenhouse addon for TAC life support. The one included in asteroid cities seems decent.
-Mining, particularly for water and maybe fuel. I think Interstellar has a good system for this but it would require some modifying of the resource configs for it to be compatible with life support, at least if I use original Interstellar and not Interstellar Lite.

So, any suggestions and/or things I missed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 13, 2014, 05:24:37 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 02:26:47 am
So I think that I want to do a simulated mission to Mars with Real Solar System and a bunch of mods for realism.
So far I've got:

-Real Solar System (duh)
-FAR
-Deadly Reentry
-TAC life support
-Remote Tech
-Kerbal Attachment System (assuming it doesn't cause too many problems)
-Infernal Robotics
-KW Rocketry
-Near Future pack
-Firespitter (I only really want the electric propellers for flying drones)
-MechJeb
-Realchutes (maybe)

What I'm still looking for:

-A well balanced greenhouse addon for TAC life support. The one included in asteroid cities seems decent.
-Mining, particularly for water and maybe fuel. I think Interstellar has a good system for this but it would require some modifying of the resource configs for it to be compatible with life support, at least if I use original Interstellar and not Interstellar Lite.

So, any suggestions and/or things I missed?

Karbonite (http://bobpalmer.github.io/UmbraSpaceIndustries/)
Seriously, Karbonite and MKS/OKS should fit your needs quite perfectly, they're what I use, and I find them far better than Kethane, especially as Karbonite is concentration-based rather than having discrete deposits like Kethane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 13, 2014, 07:53:30 am
So I got the Near Future technologies pack. It's very very cool, but I just can't see a good use for it other than as ion engine upped to extremes. Uh.. any ideas?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 13, 2014, 08:05:56 am
A better system than Kethane? I might just play this game some more...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 08:25:58 am
Quote from: Octobomb on October 13, 2014, 07:53:30 am
So I got the Near Future technologies pack. It's very very cool, but I just can't see a good use for it other than as ion engine upped to extremes. Uh.. any ideas?
Well, it sort of is an ion-engine-upped-to-extreme pack, the Near Future Propulsion part of it at least. It's all relatively balanced, with a sense of progression from Hall to VASIMR. The uses for it are multiple, but fundamentally you're going to use them to go very far with relatively small craft. And learn to build craft that are just large enough to do what you need them to, to maximize TWR.

Some engines, mostly PITs and MPDTs, can be useful for landing things on atmosphereless bodies as well.

If you like the detail on the parts, you should try the Stockalike Station Parts Expansion by the same author. Some very good modules there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 13, 2014, 09:57:16 am
Quote from: TwilightWalker on October 13, 2014, 05:24:37 am
Seriously, Karbonite and MKS/OKS should fit your needs quite perfectly, they're what I use, and I find them far better than Kethane, especially as Karbonite is concentration-based rather than having discrete deposits like Kethane.
Looks amazing, always liked the idea, but not so much the implementation of Kethane.

Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 08:25:58 am
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion by the same author. Some very good modules there.
Not sure how I missed this. Really like Nertea's other work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 13, 2014, 10:32:44 am
Kethane is rough and heavy handed in it approach. Karbonite does things quite a bit better. ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads is currently looking to do full and official support of Karbonite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 13, 2014, 10:47:48 am
I only have a few Karbonite modules. I assume I have to research the rest?

Also, I put Jeb in a sub-oribital trajectory (80k by 64k meters). Will he eventually fall down due to air resistance while I'm launching other ships or do I actually need to have the ship where he's in loaded for that to happen?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 13, 2014, 11:17:12 am
I think his ship will be autodestroyed if he enters atmos while you're not there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 11:34:08 am
Ships only get auto-deleted if they go below 30km or thereabouts. Jeb'll be fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tahujdt on October 13, 2014, 12:02:07 pm
I think the question was whether the orbit would decay even if it wasn't the active ship.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 13, 2014, 12:04:55 pm
Yup.

I'll need to do quite a bit of research before I'll get enough MechJeb functionality to rescue Jeb, I'm afraid :X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on October 13, 2014, 12:15:21 pm
Do orbits even decay over time if the height is over re-entry value?

Also, anything less than 70km on Kerbin will cause re-entry, so you might wanna add some height.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 13, 2014, 12:23:27 pm
If I could I would :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 13, 2014, 12:49:52 pm
Orbits won't decay when you're not focused on them (but they will autodelete at either 25 or 30km over kerbin). This has good points (fling your craft into almost-orbits and catch them with a tug) and bad points (hi aerobraking!).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 12:58:17 pm
So, on a routine stroll through the KSP add-on forum, I stumbled upon a simple, but surprisingly effective mod.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/KSPScreens/25/screenshot181.png)

It's called Reflective Ambient Light (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96497-Plugin-0-24-2-0-25-Reflective-Ambient-Light-v0-1-1), and it effectively adds planetshine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetshine) to the game, weak scattered light reflected off the planet, highlighting the dark side of your spacecraft with the color of the lit planet below it.

Such a subtle change, but makes for a great visual improvement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on October 13, 2014, 01:05:27 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on October 13, 2014, 12:23:27 pm
If I could I would :)
Ah, right. I just re-read your original message, I misunderstood you it seems. My bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 13, 2014, 02:16:10 pm
I need to make a mod for Karbonite, but I simply can't imagine what that would entail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 13, 2014, 02:39:32 pm
Being open source?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 13, 2014, 02:46:26 pm
The content, not the concept :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 13, 2014, 02:49:02 pm
Being able to gather Xenon gas perhaps? More choices in terms of gathering devices in orbit would be nice, as would probe-sized fuel tanks...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 02:58:10 pm
There's already the Karbonite+ expansion add-on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 13, 2014, 03:02:26 pm
I know, it dosent have many probe size tanks that arent radials, and no way (That I can tell) of making xenon gas...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 13, 2014, 03:05:01 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 12:58:17 pm
Reflective Ambient Light (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96497-Plugin-0-24-2-0-25-Reflective-Ambient-Light-v0-1-1)
Pretty. Is it graphics intensive?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 03:10:55 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on October 13, 2014, 03:05:01 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on October 13, 2014, 12:58:17 pm
Reflective Ambient Light (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96497-Plugin-0-24-2-0-25-Reflective-Ambient-Light-v0-1-1)
Pretty. Is it graphics intensive?

A little. It adds several (3 normally, but you can reduce it to 1) extra lights to the scene, but since they are without shadows the impact is not that big. It will be progressively more noticeable as what you're trying to display on the screen reaches the limit of what your machine can display normally - i.e. if you have several thousand parts on the screen, and graphics enhancement like Better Atmospheres running, then you're going to see serious slowdown.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 13, 2014, 08:36:37 pm
Why is mechjeb required for rescuing jeb?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 08:56:43 pm
I started a career game so I could get used to the new mods I'd be using for my mission to Mars. Real Solar System doesn't fool around. My first orbiter is bigger than most standard Mun mission rockets, and I'm still struggling to get it into orbit. It should have enough delta-v but it keeps falling back into the atmosphere before it makes the requisite 8 km/s. Jeb and Bill both died fiery deaths, and Bob is only alive because I pre-emptively aborted his mission and gave his capsule an extra heat shield.

If I'm serious about using RSS, I may need a mod that expands the VAB to make room for the massive rockets I'll need.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 13, 2014, 09:10:00 pm
I think that fuel weight may be exaggerated in stock?  I remember reading some guy's blog about landing on the Moon with the realistic solar system mod, and he also had tweaked some things about the rocket sizes and engines and fuel weights to match actual NASA numbers.  I could not find it on a quick web search, but there is some "realism overhaul" mod collection that might include things like this.

But if you're going to go that way, you might as well be playing Orbiter instead, yeah?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 13, 2014, 09:11:07 pm
But you can't exactly build your own rockets in Orbiter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 13, 2014, 09:15:50 pm
well, no, not the same way.

You can, and there are even some tutorials for it.  But it's not like you can snap them together out of lego blocks like you can in KSP.  So, yeah, point taken.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 13, 2014, 09:26:06 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 08:56:43 pm
I started a career game so I could get used to the new mods I'd be using for my mission to Mars. Real Solar System doesn't fool around. My first orbiter is bigger than most standard Mun mission rockets, and I'm still struggling to get it into orbit. It should have enough delta-v but it keeps falling back into the atmosphere before it makes the requisite 8 km/s. Jeb and Bill both died fiery deaths, and Bob is only alive because I pre-emptively aborted his mission and gave his capsule an extra heat shield.

If I'm serious about using RSS, I may need a mod that expands the VAB to make room for the massive rockets I'll need.

Here, I think this is the one I was talking about.  Updates your fuel density and engines to their realistic counterparts, should work better on a realistically sized planet:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64118

It is included in this larger overhaul thing:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84689

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 13, 2014, 09:36:06 pm
Yeah, kerbal rockets generally have worse performance than their real life counterparts. I think KW rockets are a bit more in line with the real thing, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm that?

I've looked at the Realism Overhaul and I'm a bit hesitant to use it because of some of its requirements. Namely the Engine Ignitor mod. Seems like it'd mostly just be a pain in the ass to manage. Could use real fuels but I don't think it is compatible with any of the mining mods. Also a bit more complicated than what I'm looking for.

Anyway, I got into orbit on the third try. It's wonky orbit with a 120km periapsis and a 600km apoapsis, but at least it's stable. In the future, I'll have to remember to have an engine with decent thrust for orbital insertion, a single lv-909 just doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 13, 2014, 11:42:06 pm
All the numbers are very specifically chosen for parts and bodies and everything. It's all balanced to be slightly substandard. No one part is perfect for any one design. That's all intentional.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 14, 2014, 10:47:41 pm
I've had some more time to play around with the Mars mission mods in my test game. MKS seems pretty complicated but much better for building life support systems than the other mods I was looking at, so thanks for suggesting it.

Karbonite also seems to meet my fuel production needs quite well. It even has atmospheric scoops which can collect argon for use with the NFT engines, so I can refuel the mothership. It also has particle collectors which work anywhere in a planet's SOI. Unfortunately, I don't think the particle collectors apply any drag to the ship, which would make them too overpowered for my purposes. I'd have to limit myself to high-altitude gliders if I were to go in that direction. Or maybe I'll edit TAC lifesupport's water splitter to produce useable hydrogen and use a hydrogen fueled engine, we'll see.

Edit: Nevermind, apparently the particle collector only works very close to the planet's atmosphere (as it should) and because of some weirdness with how RSS extends the atmosphere, this puts it inside the physical time warp only range (but still seemingly in space). On Earth this leaves it with just a thin band of a few thousand meters between the atmosphere and "true" space where it actually works. It might not work at all on other planets, I don't know. Regardless, I probably won't use it.

So, I just have to wait for a few more mods to update and then I can get this mission underway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 15, 2014, 02:46:04 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on October 14, 2014, 10:47:41 pm
I've had some more time to play around with the Mars mission mods in my test game. MKS seems pretty complicated but much better for building life support systems than the other mods I was looking at, so thanks for suggesting it.

Karbonite also seems to meet my fuel production needs quite well. It even has atmospheric scoops which can collect argon for use with the NFT engines, so I can refuel the mothership. It also has particle collectors which work anywhere in a planet's SOI. Unfortunately, I don't think the particle collectors apply any drag to the ship, which would make them too overpowered for my purposes. I'd have to limit myself to high-altitude gliders if I were to go in that direction. Or maybe I'll edit TAC lifesupport's water splitter to produce useable hydrogen and use a hydrogen fueled engine, we'll see.

Edit: Nevermind, apparently the particle collector only works very close to the planet's atmosphere (as it should) and because of some weirdness with how RSS extends the atmosphere, this puts it inside the physical time warp only range (but still seemingly in space). On Earth this leaves it with just a thin band of a few thousand meters between the atmosphere and "true" space where it actually works. It might not work at all on other planets, I don't know. Regardless, I probably won't use it.

So, I just have to wait for a few more mods to update and then I can get this mission underway.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. There was a reason I instantly jumped ship from Kethane to Karbonite, and I'm glad I'm not the only one that's done so either. Now just to wait for EPL to have support for Karbonite as well, and all is well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 15, 2014, 03:10:12 am
I've been using a karbonite engine for my lander module; it's worked very well so far. Just set it to 10% thrust and it's only slightly more powerful than an LV-909 (though half as efficient).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 15, 2014, 05:46:12 am
Okay, my mission plan is gradually getting fleshed out. For the mothership I'll be using VASIMR plasma thrusters fueled by liquid hydrogen. Once it gets to Mars, I'll set up a small installation on Phobos which will extract hydrogen from ice to refuel the mothership.

There is one minor issue with that plan. When I tried to land a test craft on Phobos it clipped through the ground and then exploded quite spectacularly, despite the no crash damage and unbreakable joint cheats being active. Hopefully I can find a more stable landing site when it comes time to do it for real.

Right now I'm trying to balance out TAC life support's water splitter so it can be used to provide liquid hydrogen. Unfortunately, the life support resources are really not designed for the type of mass conversions required for fuels. Even with the conversion factor cranked up to 100, it would take several years to fill up one medium hydrogen tank using the default ratios. So I've had to fudge the hydrogen production by a few orders of magnitude. It was either that or completely rebalance the whole system. Lets just pretend its using some kind of heretofore unknown kind of ultra heavy water with 2000 hydrogen atoms.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 09:04:46 am
Since when do manned pods use electricity? Just had a failed Munmission because I ran out.

This has never happened to me before. Stupid addition imo >.>. Why give me the mission to go to Mun without solar panels...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 15, 2014, 09:10:06 am
They always used electricity ever since reaction wheels were made non-magic. You can conserve electricity in flight by turning off the pod's reaction wheels until you actually need them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 11:53:33 am
Well, I finally got to Mun and created a nice new crater.

How do people here know fast/slowly to descend? I'd use MechJeb but landing mode is still locked :X
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 15, 2014, 11:55:43 am
5m/s vertical without landing legs

up to 30m/s with
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 12:01:50 pm
Yeah but when do you start getting that speed? You obviously can't got from 10km to 0 at 30m/s and expect not to run out of fuel halfway down :S
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2014, 12:07:25 pm
Divide height by 100, that's max speed under 10000mt, height divided by 1000 under 500000mt

Not the most efficient by far, but safe and simple.


Or, suicide burn at 100000mt, stop, then freefall till 10000, stop, freefal to 1000 and eueball approach. That is more risky and frisky and works with rimewarp, but needs a good twr.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 15, 2014, 12:09:07 pm
Did you kill your horizontal velocity?
Other than that, it's mostly a practice /intuition. For your first landing, pack plenty of fuel and a good TWR. Speed wise, a rough guide is 10m/s for every 100m, most of the mun being 2km or so up. Also, for the love of Kod, don't rely on Mechjeb. I love it to bits and it can be invaluable, but it's not designed to hold your hand. It does everything in the most clinical fashion possible, executing for a landing what's known as a 'suicide burn', where it kills all velocity at the last possible moment. It's suicide for anyone uncomfortable with landing, hence the name. Learn it yourself. Don't cripple yourself - you'll need those skills.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 12:11:36 pm
Yeah I was going straight down.

And I try to rely on MechJeb whenever I can :P. I like designing ships and fucking around in space more than actually performing difficult manoeuvres.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 15, 2014, 12:12:26 pm
MechJeb is not quite so bad about suicide burns at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 15, 2014, 12:43:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 15, 2014, 12:12:26 pm
MechJeb is not quite so bad about suicide burns at the moment.
Thank goodness. Landing with experimental craft was a hair raising experience, to say the least.
Quote from: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 12:11:36 pm
Yeah I was going straight down.

And I try to rely on MechJeb whenever I can :P. I like designing ships and fucking around in space more than actually performing difficult manoeuvres.
No. Bad. Mun landings aren't 'difficult' at all. They do however involve feeding the brain a large amount of information, all of which is unfamiliar, and requiring you to process it in real time. This makes it mentally taxing, and by no means easy but it's very possible and it is worth it. I'm sorry if I sound patronising or mean but I jumped up and down and screamed like a four year old girl when I landed on the mun. If you're having trouble, go to minmus. That's what I did. It has lower gravity and flat plains and if you don't mind getting a polar orbit then landing on the equator doesn't even need a plane change to get to. KSP is a hard game and worth learning at least once. Then mechjeb all you want. :) Have fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 12:56:14 pm
Oh, I landed on Mun and Minmus without any mods before. Its just that it has been a while (before science stuff was added at least).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2014, 12:59:46 pm
yeah, remember when you burned for the mun 'when you see it rise over the horizont, prograde 870m/s and hope for the best' :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 15, 2014, 12:59:58 pm
30 m/s with lander legs on the mun is suicidal, you'll just bounce, topple to one side and fly int othe surface while trying to correct that 1m above the surface.

protip: find a flat area. make sure you have some spare fuel so you can fly to a nearby flat area if you end up right above a sloped area.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 15, 2014, 01:44:09 pm
You want to be as low as possible horizontally. None of this "straight drop from 10,000 meters" crap, you should be 1000 meters off of the ground when you kill your horizontal velocity. Makes it way easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 02:15:51 pm
Welp, I did it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A beautiful belly landing on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on October 15, 2014, 02:16:43 pm
Taking back off again (assuming you're going to attempt that) might be interesting for you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 15, 2014, 02:17:31 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on October 15, 2014, 02:16:43 pm
Taking back off again (assuming you're going to attempt that) might be interesting for you.

pointy end is toward space (ever so slightly) shouldn't be too hard
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 02:20:56 pm
Ehm, I'll manage. It's nearby a hill so that should suffice as a runway.

I only have 400dV though, so I'll need to get a rescue craft ready to pick Jeb up from Mun orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on October 15, 2014, 02:22:50 pm
Oh my, he looks so happy!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 15, 2014, 03:20:11 pm
mun and minmus deltav is essentially the same

what you save on landing/takeoff is balanced with orbit inject
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 15, 2014, 03:20:37 pm
Quote from: greatorder on October 15, 2014, 03:07:08 pm
I prefer minmus over the mun.

You seem to save delta v because of minmus's gravity being so incredibly low.

Minmus's gravity is a quarter of the Mun's. You can more than double your dV with weaker engines than what you might use on the Mun. Just don't hit the surface at 8km/s. You'll bounce.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 03:44:28 pm
Spoiler: woops (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 15, 2014, 03:45:00 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on October 15, 2014, 02:15:51 pm
Welp, I did it.
-snip-
A beautiful belly landing on the Mun.
Lovely job. Just like my first landing. Might be able to flip it up with capsule reaction wheels.
FAKEEDIT: Whoops. That also has happened to me.

I have found the calling of Near Future. Behold:
Spoiler: Big picture (click to show/hide)
She runs on 5 2.5m VASMIR engines and 75000 liquid H2 to power them. At standard operating requirements (max thrust!) she has 6km/s dV and a respectable 0.3 TWR.
Spoiler: Another big image (click to show/hide)
At minimum, 19.6km/s dV. Oh, did I mention that those two huge 80t tanks on top are both full of fuel, unused? These figures are with the 164t payload. I'm quite pleased, to say the least. She clocks in at around 70 parts and once strutted to high heaven should remain under 100. I'm going to take a test drive tomorrow, I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 15, 2014, 05:05:45 pm
Phobos' broken terrain seems to have been fixed by upgrading to the highest resolution RSS maps. Unfortunately this means I'm skirting the edge of the memory limit, even with active texture management. I may have to trim some of the more memory-intensive mods. How I wish the 64-bit version were more stable.

Still, you can't fault the results:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on October 15, 2014, 06:33:05 pm
Oh wow that's gorgeous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 16, 2014, 12:36:20 am
So... it turns out KSP version 0.26 is never going to be released now. ._.

It's going to be KSP version 0.90.0 instead! ALPHA NO MORE!! ^o^
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 16, 2014, 12:37:47 am
Huh?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2014, 01:00:18 am
Because it's been renamed to 0.90.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 16, 2014, 01:05:45 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP)

Since other people are less than helpful.

A quote from the linked article:

Quote
To make this clear to everyone (even those who don't read this post), we’ve decided to not call the next release version 0.26, as convention would have it. Instead once the update is out, we’ll be officially in Beta, so we’re calling the next release version 0.90.0 (zero-ninety-zero).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 16, 2014, 01:45:23 am
Wow, feature list for next version is amazing.

Fine Print integration, upgradeable buildings, kerbal experience....SUCH AWESOMENESS I WANT IT NAOOOOOO
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on October 16, 2014, 05:49:44 am
I just built my first SSTO <3

Takeoff went fine, speeding up was okay, no problem with going to space, succesfully deployed a satellite (Although I had some strange bug with both satellite and plane rotating when I pressed WASD.). Nailed coming back to KSC (First try o_O), proper landing approach, touchdown! I almost stood up with my fist in the air, BUT... My plane strangely jumped up a bit and started veering to the right. I forgot to unlock steering on the front wheel, so I couldn't do jack shit. It rolled off the runway, onto a ramp and flied straight for the mission control building. I did a barrel roll and dodged it by half a meter. Then I tried to pull up, but I hit the ground at 30 m/s, and everything but the cockpit exploded.

At least I got ~500 funds back.

Spoiler: SSTO pics (click to show/hide)

Bonus:
Spoiler: Gotta go fast (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 08:49:43 am
So apparently orbiting the Mun at a height of 5km isn't a good idea.

TIL.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on October 16, 2014, 09:48:13 am
(http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/thumb/a/ac/Mun_heights.svg/400px-Mun_heights.svg.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 16, 2014, 09:55:56 am
Tbh orbiting very low is always annoying since it limits the available timewarps
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tack on October 16, 2014, 11:53:52 am
Argh. Got a campaign mission to snatch a random Kerbal from orbit. Managed to line up the orbit to within 0.1km... And then couldn't do jack after that and watched him overshoot and wave as he disappeared.

If only I could control said useless Kerbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 16, 2014, 12:02:29 pm
Quote from: Tack on October 16, 2014, 11:53:52 am
Argh. Got a campaign mission to snatch a random Kerbal from orbit. Managed to line up the orbit to within 0.1km... And then couldn't do jack after that and watched him overshoot and wave as he disappeared.

If only I could control said useless Kerbit.
If you get your ship close enough to the Kerbal, you can control him.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Tack on October 16, 2014, 12:10:02 pm
With a right-click, or do I have to go into orbital view?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2014, 12:12:20 pm
Quote from: Tack on October 16, 2014, 12:10:02 pm
With a right-click, or do I have to go into orbital view?

]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 16, 2014, 12:45:22 pm
Yeah, the [ and ] keys swap between nearby vessels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 01:31:01 pm
Question: is the following the most efficient way of reducing horizontal speed when landing on a body without air?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because my rescue mission will not have enough delta V left after that manoeuvre D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 16, 2014, 01:52:09 pm
I'm pretty sure that might be the least efficient maneuver. Try performing a maneuver at apoapsis instead. You could always just have them jetpack there. Worst case scenario, you just need another rescue rescue mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on October 16, 2014, 01:53:20 pm
at that point you might as well hyperedit the mun into 80k orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 01:54:19 pm
But if I do it at the Ap my horizontal speed won't be decreased to 0 OR I won't end up at Jeb's landing site :?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 16, 2014, 01:56:12 pm
The way you have things set up, I don't think there's any possible way for you to land.

For future reference, landing the way you're trying to wastes a lot of fuel due to gravity. The most efficient way to land is to get as low an orbit as possible and then cancel out your horizontal velocity when you're passing over the target.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 01:57:06 pm
That's what I did the first time, but my orbit didn't line up right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 16, 2014, 01:59:05 pm
You don't need to kill all your horizontal velocity in one go like that. Apoapsis retro until you have a trajectory that just overshoots them. Then just kill your velocity diagonally. Corners do very bad things to your dV.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 02:01:59 pm
Welp, I'll just head back and then try again :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 16, 2014, 02:55:46 pm
I tried to send a probe to the Moon, and now I have a better sense of just how large Real Solar System rockets need to be. The limited size of the VAB is a real issue, and building each rocket like it's a Tower of Hanoi puzzle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi) gets old fast.

I seem to recall a mod that expanded the VAB. Does anyone know what it was called, and if there's a version compatible with 0.25?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 03:07:04 pm
You really shouldn't be needing a bigger VAB if you only want to go to the moon 0.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 16, 2014, 03:26:48 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on October 16, 2014, 03:07:04 pm
You really shouldn't be needing a bigger VAB if you only want to go to the moon 0.0

he said real solar system, maybe he's playing without the fuel mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 16, 2014, 03:31:45 pm
yeah, if you bring in the real solar system mod, you need to change the fuels also.  The stock fuel is scaled for the tiny radius of Kerbin.  Earth has both larger size and deeper atmosphere.

The stock fuel is scaled to let you build rockets that look about proportionally sized to real rockets for similar jobs, such as payload to kerbin orbit, or kerbin to mun.  But if you deepen the atmosphere and increase the diameter of the planet, suddenly the fuel that was balanced for kerbin forces you to build huge rockets to do the same job.

tl;dr: mod your fuel.

edit:  check out this guy's recreation of a real life moon mission:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1piaqi/in_realsized_earth_and_moon_mod_fullscale/

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 16, 2014, 03:38:35 pm
Yeah, I didn't want to have to learn realfuels along with all the other new mods I'm using. I don't suppose there's an easy fix for stock fuels, is there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 16, 2014, 03:41:56 pm
Probably.  I've never delved into modding the game, but I think you basically just increase their density by 4x (fact check needed) and you'll be in the right ballpark.

This won't change your thrust / weight ratios much (a little maybe, since less tankage is needed for the same weight of fuel) but will allow your rockets to be more compact.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 16, 2014, 03:43:51 pm
So, KSP is apparently soon to be feature-complete.
That's something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 16, 2014, 03:50:10 pm
Here, check this out.  Dude breaks it down:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25804-A-discussion-on-fuel-types

If you wanted to keep it simple, just take his numbers for existing fuels and tweak the existing engines to use his suggested ratios of liquid fuel.

And unrelated, they are playing pretty loose with the phrase "feature complete".   Apparently they mean "all the features they originally thought were important and also have not decided to cut, plus everything they decided to add afterwards, but they'll keep adding major and minor features as long as major code changes are not required or until we decide otherwise."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on October 16, 2014, 03:56:47 pm
I like it how every time I play KSP it still feels like it's the first time (not true) and I have no clue what I'm doing (more or less true).


Today I built a very simple rocket consisting entirely out of basic, small solid boosters. If I'd use decoupler there would be three stages, 3-3-1.

All i wanted is to escape gravity pull, preferably make an orbit around Kerbin.

When my final booster went out, I had about 3000 m/s and around 17 days to reach apoapsis which peaked at 80,000,000 or something.

What have I done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 16, 2014, 04:28:02 pm
Upping the fuel density seems to work to an acceptable degree. Honestly I'm not that concerned with the realism of conventional fuels for this mission. They'll only really factor in when I'm sending everything into orbit and for the Mars escape system. The real meat of it is going to be based around Near Future Propulsion. Maybe I'll try out the full realism overhaul sometime in the future, but for now there are too many incompatibilities with my mod list.

Just waiting for firespitter to update, then we can get this show on the road. Until then I might try to use the Moon as a testing grounds for building MKS bases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on October 16, 2014, 04:34:21 pm
After putting my mothership into orbit I found out NFT reactors are annoying. I had them partially fueled to keep weight down but they refused to refuel to full, just to the level in the tweakables. Stupid plugin. Also, you have to get within 5cm of the reactor (not an exaggeration) to refuel it. Combined with bounc kerbals and breakable radiators and you get !!FUN!!! SUCH FUN! I'm considering raising these issues with nearta.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 16, 2014, 04:45:24 pm
Quote from: Octobomb on October 16, 2014, 04:34:21 pm
After putting my mothership into orbit I found out NFT reactors are annoying. I had them partially fueled to keep weight down but they refused to refuel to full, just to the level in the tweakables. Stupid plugin. Also, you have to get within 5cm of the reactor (not an exaggeration) to refuel it. Combined with bounc kerbals and breakable radiators and you get !!FUN!!! SUCH FUN! I'm considering raising these issues with nearta.

You can edit the interaction distance yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 16, 2014, 11:54:08 pm
Strategies are OP as shit. I went 30% in on the "get science for funds" strategy and now I'm on my fourth mission with all but 2 of the fourth layer of the tech tree finished and a mission to test the mainsail in orbit that will get me--I shit you not--3,480 science, only counting the science from funds. I got 712 science for taking the mission. Those guys they're outsourcing R&D to must be really frigging intense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 17, 2014, 01:03:18 am
Yeah, strategies seem to be designed on the assumption that there's a one-to-one relation between the currencies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on October 17, 2014, 01:18:47 am
I just made a horrible mistake.

When I realized my simple orbiter would not be able to get back down, and that it would run out of oxygen and the like soon, I decided to get Jeb to gather all the experiments and jetpack back to Kerbin. Soomehow, I forgot to factory in the whole "hitting-the-ground-at-high-speed-is-not-good" idea, and flaming Jeb hit the ground and went poof, along with all my science.   :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 17, 2014, 01:54:36 am
You could always have made him push the orbiter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2014, 02:15:34 am
That's why all my kerbal are trained in radio operations.

Last thing they do with their last breath is either stage to chutes and reentry the empty capsule with juicy science or, if that's not an option, execute plan c: trasmit everything and burn retrograde so they don't litter space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on October 17, 2014, 03:47:46 am
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on October 17, 2014, 01:18:47 am
I just made a horrible mistake.

When I realized my simple orbiter would not be able to get back down, and that it would run out of oxygen and the like soon, I decided to get Jeb to gather all the experiments and jetpack back to Kerbin. Soomehow, I forgot to factory in the whole "hitting-the-ground-at-high-speed-is-not-good" idea, and flaming Jeb hit the ground and went poof, along with all my science.   :(
Have you tried landing him on his head? I kid you not, they have a chance to survive if you do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 17, 2014, 06:44:11 am
Mun Rescue Attempt #2
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have 1800dV. Will it be enough to land, take off, and return to Kerbal? And if so, how would I actually land near the stranded Kerbal? Last time I spent 1500dV or so trying to align my orbit :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2014, 06:52:16 am
To save fuel on alignment, make like a lawndart. You'll need good timing on this, but you basically need to extend your apoapsis, then slow down at apoapsis until you're on a collision trajectory, then burn to shift the orbit, as your velocity will be minimal. I suggest getting the trajectory-predicting mod so that you can see where you'll actually land as the Mun rotates under you. It's not an easy way to do it, but it's effective.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 17, 2014, 06:55:36 am
I don't really want any more mods since KSP already starts up slowly enough. Also I think Jeb won't mind making a little jetpack joyride on the Mun if I overshoot. :)

And the shifting of the orbit happens at the Ap right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2014, 06:58:42 am
Yes. You save some dV if you only start inclining the orbit after you've slowed down. Ideally you'll have slowed down somewhere above the target area, just going in the wrong direction, so you'll be able to burn sideways and adjust your trajectory so you land where you need, without speeding up again.

I recommend playing with maneuver nodes to get a feel for how this will work. Accelerate to higher apo, slow down at apo, then burn sideways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 17, 2014, 07:26:32 am
I recently started playing on Hard. It can be fairly difficult, since there's no way to test a lot of the designs. I also learned that repairing the launchpad costs a gigantic amount and that VAB subassemblies can be loaded in the SPH  ::).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2014, 07:28:34 am
So kids, what did we learn today?
:P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 17, 2014, 08:29:39 am
Spoiler: RIP IN PEACE (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 17, 2014, 09:20:58 am
The original three respawn, iirc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2014, 09:22:44 am
Not if it's not enabled in the difficulty options they don't.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 17, 2014, 09:29:16 am
it's not for me :c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 17, 2014, 09:38:19 am
rip
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 09:41:17 am
Quote from: TheDarkStar on October 17, 2014, 07:26:32 am
I recently started playing on Hard. It can be fairly difficult, since there's no way to test a lot of the designs. I also learned that repairing the launchpad costs a gigantic amount and that VAB subassemblies can be loaded in the SPH  ::).
theres a mod that in addition to makeing your people build the rockets also lets you test them.

It costs money tho.

What mod is it...
/me dives into the depths of the KSP forums

-edit-

Found it, it makes it even harder, and no testing...
Well, if you feel like being even worse on yourself, here you go:
Here is the evil (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92377-0-24-2-Kerbal-Construction-Time-Release-v1-0-2-%289-3-14%29)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 11:24:43 am
The time limit never made any sense. Just warp through every construction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 17, 2014, 12:38:59 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 11:24:43 am
The time limit never made any sense. Just warp through every construction.
Launch windows. Time constraints on life support and stuff. Things like that.
So you can't just whip up a new specialised vehicle to solve a problem, you have to plan for that kind of thing in advance, or make do with what you have.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 12:43:09 pm
I time warp to launch windows all the time and it's usually 100 days or more in advance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2014, 01:08:01 pm
How exactly are you supposed to save a kerbal in orbit again? It says you're supposed to get them into the ship, but is that even possible if you can't control them?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 17, 2014, 01:10:16 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2014, 01:08:01 pm
How exactly are you supposed to save a kerbal in orbit again? It says you're supposed to get them into the ship, but is that even possible if you can't control them?
You need to get within load range (2.5 km) of him, then you can switch to him with the [ or ] keys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 17, 2014, 01:19:50 pm
Oh. I was trying to use one of the click menus, but it never worked.

Unfortunately, that entire flight had to be ditched, but at least I know for next time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 17, 2014, 01:25:49 pm
I'm thinking about downloading Real Solar System, which mod was the one you guys were talking about that adjusted fuel efficiency to go with it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 01:31:05 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on October 17, 2014, 01:25:49 pm
I'm thinking about downloading Real Solar System, which mod was the one you guys were talking about that adjusted fuel efficiency to go with it?
Real Fuels

I know. The name makes no sense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 17, 2014, 01:39:36 pm
RealFuels (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64118), which, as the name suggests, adds real life fuels along with some other realism tweaks. If you like that, you should also look at the Realism Overhaul Pack (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84689-WIP-Realism-Overhaul-%28Busy-Updating-to-0-25%29).

If that all seems a bit too complex, you can go into the resource definitions and increase the fuel densities so your rockets don't need to reach absurd sizes. This will make fuel heavier per unit, but each unit will burn longer so you won't need larger tanks. I've found that 3x stock works reasonably well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2014, 03:53:24 pm
I need help!!!

I have done a lengthy mission on minmus tied to 3 contracts, I am now getting back to the space center and have a save just out of atmosphere.

I have staged the capsule to have only a deployed chute and a heatshield.

problem is when I get to thicker air the chute deploy already broken (it pops out and doesn't even show)

I tried tweaking the min pressure so it opens lower, to no avail.

if it is damaged, what should I check in the persistence file? if it is not, which mod might conflict?

Spoiler: modlist (click to show/hide)

save here, ship is called 'long leg' (because of many booster on the bottom when launched)
http://pastebin.com/DkpAvBAZ



plz help :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 03:59:08 pm
I think you messed up.

I bet the reentry section is too heavy for them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2014, 04:04:18 pm
it's just the capsule.

update:
tested now putting chute in state STOWED, and it started packed, rearranged stages, staged at 10km altitude, chute opened directly to red :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 17, 2014, 04:06:46 pm
EVA a kerbal, repack the chute. Set it to open really high so that it goes red sooner, and you can EVA on a ladder without getting torn away by air drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 04:14:37 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2014, 04:04:18 pm
it's just the capsule.
What one, and what chute?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 17, 2014, 04:25:12 pm
ok it seems at closer inspection that one mod has f**** them up

(http://i59.tinypic.com/33cowts.png)

(I waited to be closer to land and edited them deployed)

internet say:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/2326

fixed, workaround is to set ACTIVE while under deploy altitude.

0.25 is annoying, between this and the EVA catapult.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 17, 2014, 07:07:16 pm
That is the funniest kerbal bug I've ever seen (not counting anything Danny does).

But, I've recently discovered that Deadly Reentry causes parachutes to break when you're moving too fast. From testing it appears to happen around when you're going faster than 300 m/s below 10000 m, with higher speeds breaking them at higher altitudes. That was probably the cause of the first two failures.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 07:25:19 pm
Sweet. Squad is holding to their "Early adopters get everything KSP forever. Expansions ahoy."
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 17, 2014, 07:35:47 pm
INTERSTELLAR IS UPDATED NAO.

YOU CAN MAKE THINGS GO VERY ZIP-FAST.

Just make sure to delete treeloader, apparently it breaks all the things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 07:42:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 07:25:19 pm
Sweet. Squad is holding to their "Early adopters get everything KSP forever. Expansions ahoy."
What? Why did you expect otherwise?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 07:50:35 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 07:42:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 17, 2014, 07:25:19 pm
Sweet. Squad is holding to their "Early adopters get everything KSP forever. Expansions ahoy."
What? Why did you expect otherwise?
Oh, I expected them to hold to it. Good to hear it said again with 0.90 in the works. Right at this very moment you can watch a painful playthrough of the very first released version on twitch.tv/ksptv
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 17, 2014, 11:53:51 pm
Got my first OKS space station into orbit, it's more straightforward than I initially thought. It should be almost fully self sufficient and capable of supporting at least 5 kerbals.  As an amusing aside: the heavy launch vehicle I built to assemble the station was so powerful that it frequently caused the launchpad to explode during liftoff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 17, 2014, 11:55:51 pm
Well, I bet you can go anywhere with that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 18, 2014, 12:00:46 am
Not with RSS I can't. It can take about 30 tonnes of payload to LEO and that's about it. Maybe if the payload was a VASIMR thruster and a whole bunch of hydrogen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 18, 2014, 12:07:44 am
Well, I hope you can get cash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 18, 2014, 12:21:18 am
Well this is only a test game and I have the money rewards set to 1000%. It still managed to leave me with not enough funds to launch the second half of the station. A single mission to test an Ion drive in suborbital flight fixed that, but I had to use Hyperedit to remove the atmosphere because the mission height requirements don't accommodate RSS's extended atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 18, 2014, 05:35:15 pm
I just got Real Solar System and all of the Realism Overhaul mods.

Any part packs you guys recommend to go with it? The guy on the Real Solar System page on the KSP forums used a part pack that I want,  but I don't know what it's called.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 18, 2014, 05:45:40 pm
I've had to pull NEAR (The 'easier' version of FAR) from my installs. I just can't play with it. All my rockets are sent tumbling out of control, wibble-wobbling all over the place no matter what I try to do to stabilize them. It looked pretty fun as a mod, but actual implementation was just frustration for me..so out it goes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 18, 2014, 06:07:38 pm
If you want to use FAR/NEAR then you have to lose a few bad habits you get from playing stock. Building very squat rockets and doing the standard 45 degree "gravity turn" are both good ways to lose control of your rocket. You also generally always want fins at the bottom of the rocket, even without any control surfaces they keep it pointed the right way.

Once you get used to it, it's really not that hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 18, 2014, 06:42:00 pm
Yeah, I've heard those portions, and that's exactly what I was doing. Longer rockets, fins at the bottom, slow gravity turns...and then the thing starts flipping out, whee. I'll throw it back in and try again, but I have low hopes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 18, 2014, 07:09:47 pm
The thing is, there are a lot of things with a rocket's design or piloting that can cause that behaviour. What I listed is by no means a comprehensive list of everything that can go wrong. Too much thrust can cause instability, the SAS can over-correct and destabilize an otherwise perfectly viable rocket, loose joints can cause oscillations, etc.

I suggest starting with a very simple rocket. Just a pod, one or two of the long 1.25 m fuel tanks, an engine and some fins. Learn how to pilot that and then move on from there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 18, 2014, 08:07:57 pm
Nevermind, the parts pack I mentioned before new up being KW rocketry. Is awesome, much recommend. Very wow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 18, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
KW is about 4 rockets with multiples of each and they aren't that much different from stock. They look nice but just add to part bloat for no other reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 19, 2014, 04:19:52 am
Also you probably want Kerbal Joint Reinforcement, that usually helps with wobbly joints (and means you don't have to do silly vertical strutting between stacked parts)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2014, 09:24:31 am
Yeah I would love less parts better integrated with tweakscale
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on October 19, 2014, 12:02:38 pm
Finally made a working spaceplane, SSTO at that. Unfortunately, when it left the atmosphere, it lost control of itself for some reason. I thought RAPIERs had thrust vectoring?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2014, 12:08:50 pm
is thrust aligned with the center of mass?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on October 19, 2014, 12:28:02 pm
Most likely not.

To be fair, I'm surprised it got that high. I'm... not good with spaceplanes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 19, 2014, 12:49:09 pm
There's a few thrust balancing mods that can account for that, actually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 19, 2014, 01:22:40 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 18, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
KW is about 4 rockets with multiples of each and they aren't that much different from stock. They look nice but just add to part bloat for no other reason.
So what do you recommend? I just want a set of realistic and useful parts to use with my RSS installation. I'm probably keeping this too because fairings are awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on October 19, 2014, 01:46:20 pm
Procedural fairings the way better than any of of manual fairings
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 19, 2014, 09:37:42 pm
Trimmed down my Mars Mission game by eliminating some of KW and Near Future's more superfluous parts. Also added the Transfer Window Planner (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93115-0-25-0-Transfer-Window-Planner-v1-1-0-0-%28Oct-16%29) as showcased in Scott Manley's latest video. It should be fantastic for putting the supply ships on efficient extended transfers while minimizing transit time for the kerbal transport ship, as would be desired in a real Mars mission.

I also had the chance to try out the full blown realism overhaul on a different game. It's pretty intense, at least at the low tech levels. For example, the liquid engines can be ignited at most a few times, but generally only once for the most powerful ones. Also they have limited if any thrust control, and changing the thrust limiter in the VAB doesn't seem to have an effect. This ended up causing the deaths of several kerbals while trying to achieve orbit for the first time. Near the end of the second stage the vessel's TWR would exceed the crew's g-force limit, killing them. On the plus side, the fuel tanks are vastly customizable in appearance, stats, and contents and you can make some really good looking rockets with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 20, 2014, 06:05:45 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 19, 2014, 01:22:40 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 18, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
KW is about 4 rockets with multiples of each and they aren't that much different from stock. They look nice but just add to part bloat for no other reason.
So what do you recommend? I just want a set of realistic and useful parts to use with my RSS installation. I'm probably keeping this too because fairings are awesome.
I recommend the stock NASA parts. Things are practically magic when looked at next to that dopey Mainsail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 20, 2014, 02:48:02 pm
Anybody else go to the NASA open house on Sunday?  I'm bummed that I didn't know about the back stage passes, but there was enough cool stuff on display that I had a great time anyway.

The portable satellite uplink and various RF toys were pretty cool and probably the most professionally interesting to me.  But they had all sorts of great stuff, including microsats (including this thing:http://www.phonesat.org/ (http://www.phonesat.org/), with the first crowd-sourced satellite tracking), ablative heat shields and the arc jet that tests them, really big wind-tunnels, models of the new Orion spacecraft and escape tower, and a whole lot more.

Nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 21, 2014, 01:48:46 pm
remember when I had that chute malfunction?

it was a deadly reentry bug in temp multipliers for chutes, fixed version 6.2.1 onward.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 21, 2014, 02:10:27 pm
Oh that was a bug? It did seem a bit extreme, but not completely unreasonable seeing as you'd be moving at faster than mach 1 when it happened. Time to update I guess.

I'm still waiting on firespitter's update for my Mars mission. It's not necessary, but I like the idea of having flying drones on Mars. In the meantime I'm trying to re-enact the Gemini docking with the Realism Overhaul modpack. It's going a bit better than my earlier attempts at making a no orbiter now that I have a better understanding of the engines and their limitations. Still pretty hard though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on October 21, 2014, 04:32:15 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on October 19, 2014, 09:37:42 pm
Trimmed down my Mars Mission game by eliminating some of KW and Near Future's more superfluous parts. Also added the Transfer Window Planner (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93115-0-25-0-Transfer-Window-Planner-v1-1-0-0-%28Oct-16%29) as showcased in Scott Manley's latest video. It should be fantastic for putting the supply ships on efficient extended transfers while minimizing transit time for the kerbal transport ship, as would be desired in a real Mars mission.

I also had the chance to try out the full blown realism overhaul on a different game. It's pretty intense, at least at the low tech levels. For example, the liquid engines can be ignited at most a few times, but generally only once for the most powerful ones. Also they have limited if any thrust control, and changing the thrust limiter in the VAB doesn't seem to have an effect. This ended up causing the deaths of several kerbals while trying to achieve orbit for the first time. Near the end of the second stage the vessel's TWR would exceed the crew's g-force limit, killing them. On the plus side, the fuel tanks are vastly customizable in appearance, stats, and contents and you can make some really good looking rockets with it.

What is that realism mod?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 21, 2014, 04:43:33 pm
The Realism Overhaul (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84689-0-25-Realism-Overhaul-v6-1-1-18-Oct-2014). It's not so much a single mod as it is a mod pack that integrates and modifies a bunch of separate realism mods and stock parts to make KSP as realistic as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 22, 2014, 03:01:58 am
on an unrelated notice patapon music is an unbelievably good fit for the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 22, 2014, 04:19:35 pm
Well, the pseudo-Gemini docking went fine, but it now seems I have no way of de-orbiting the craft safely short of using infinite fuel. Supposedly with the realism overhaul you can use the off-center mass of the Mk1-2 pod to easily perform a lifting reentry. However, even with RCS keeping the pod in a position to maximize lift AND using the remaining fuel in the last stage to keep the craft in level flight for as long as possible, the heat shield still ablates away as soon as It gets to around 45000m.

The Realism Overhaul links a video example of a lifting reentry, and the guy in the video has no problem losing all his velocity higher up despite barely controlling the pod at all and going in at a steeper angle. I can only conclude that some change in FAR, deadly reentry or the Realism overhaul has broken things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 22, 2014, 06:11:13 pm
wut WUT WHAT?! :O
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97865-0-25-Kerbal-Warp-Drive!-Procedurally-generated-systems-from-a-seed-you-choose!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It will be interesting to watch this develop.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2014, 01:29:13 am
touying around with the monoprop engines...

they really are impressive, here is a small rover with loads of stuff including two mistery goo container,
sitting at 1500+ dv

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: mikefictiti0us on October 23, 2014, 03:33:07 am
Quote from: IronTomato on October 19, 2014, 01:22:40 pm
I just want a set of realistic and useful parts to use with my RSS installation. I'm probably keeping this too because fairings are awesome.

Try Procedural Parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70676-0-25WIP-Procedural-Parts-Parts-the-way-you-want-em-0-9-19-Oct-11) combined with Procedural Fairings (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39512-0-25-Procedural-Fairings-3-10-payload-auto-struts-%28October-11%29). I ended up removing KW and a handful of other part mods after installing these two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 23, 2014, 12:45:39 pm
The latest dev log resulted in an almighty internet Higgildy-piggildy. By 0.9, Kerbals were going to gain experience which would translate into direct engine upgrades for that vessel alone. This was widely rejected by the community (and unfortunately drowned out a great deal of exciting changes, such as a total rebuild of the ship designer), and there was an announcement afterwards that they were going to consider alternatives.

Naturally, there have been a number of suggestions. Here's an example from a psychopath that nonetheless makes good points. (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/2k0dpg/a_modest_alternative_kerbal_experience_system/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2014, 12:50:50 pm
Bah, it was kerbal and I would have enjoyed it even if gamey.

I mean, engine with fixed thrust are as much wrong as kerbals having better performances.


edit: I give up, .25 eva are too bugged to play hardmode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on October 23, 2014, 02:23:56 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2014, 12:50:50 pm
I give up, .25 eva are too bugged to play hardmode.
This may help with that. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97285-0-25-Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2014, 02:52:19 pm
OMNOMNOM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdl2Ob5N-cQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sinistar on October 23, 2014, 03:01:44 pm
Hm, which dev log is that? The one from 14th October? Or the forum post (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96849-Devnote-Tuesdays-The-Onward-to-0-26-Edition/page3) from the same day? I don't frequent KPS page/forums so asking just so I know what I should be reading because Kerbal experience does sound kinda weird...

Quote from: BigD145 on October 23, 2014, 02:52:19 pm
OMNOMNOM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdl2Ob5N-cQ)
Glorious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on October 23, 2014, 03:03:50 pm
I want nothing more than XP for kerbals...it's the key to making me really connect with and want to keep and actually learn the nmaes of characters...it just needs to be tweaked to make more sense on a realistic level...affecting parts doesn't make sense
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2014, 03:09:15 pm
Quote from: Leonon on October 23, 2014, 02:23:56 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 23, 2014, 12:50:50 pm
I give up, .25 eva are too bugged to play hardmode.
This may help with that. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97285-0-25-Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules)

AWESOME! thanks!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 23, 2014, 03:38:20 pm
Decided to perform a Minmussion so I can get more Science and rescue Jeb from the surface of the Mun.

Spoiler: Everything went well until I ran out of electricity midway through landing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minmussion Results: Spectacular Success! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 23, 2014, 03:48:50 pm
haha, did you climb out and land on your EVA thrusters?  That's awesome.

Time for a double rescue, now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 23, 2014, 04:22:20 pm
That thing is too top heavy. Also not enough batteries for a 909.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 23, 2014, 04:33:10 pm
I don't have any batteries yet. Or solar panels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 23, 2014, 05:34:50 pm
All you have to do is keep the engine running. Just not the engine you put on it ;)

...or, MOAR COMMAND PODS.  just turn off their flywheels and such when not in use, and drain any unwanted RCS fuel or other resources to save weight..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on October 23, 2014, 05:40:27 pm
I'll just grind Science until I get solar panels :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on October 23, 2014, 05:51:30 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on October 23, 2014, 03:03:50 pm
I want nothing more than XP for kerbals...it's the key to making me really connect with and want to keep and actually learn the nmaes of characters...it just needs to be tweaked to make more sense on a realistic level...affecting parts doesn't make sense

If it ended up something like the Final Frontier (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67246-0-25-Final-Frontier-kerbal-individual-merits-0-5-9-177) mod would I'd be happy. Kerbals get ribbons like those you find in peoples sigs over on the KSP forums.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 23, 2014, 06:33:34 pm
I'm glad they're rethinking the experience system. Besides being completely unrealistic and gamey, I think just having kerbals pull better engine performance out of their asses would feel too much like just a placeholder system, lacking the care needed to make it an actual fun and interesting addition.

I found out why my Gemini pods kept burning up. Apparently, the realism overhaul modifies the aerodynamics of all deadly reentry heat shields EXCEPT for the heat shield specifically designed for the Mk1-2 capsule. It does not tell you this. Guess I'll have to edit the DR configs if I want to save those kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 23, 2014, 06:46:52 pm
Experience makes sense for some things like science. Engineers could also get experience, but that isn't added. Maybe more experience Kerbals can recover more of their spacecraft upon landing? Also, there could be a walking speed boost/general boost in how well a Kerbal can EVA. Experienced Kerbals could also get more from contracts/attract better contracts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on October 23, 2014, 07:35:06 pm
Personal awards/ribbons would be amazing along with the XP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 23, 2014, 11:02:44 pm
Checked out that warpdrive mod. Unfortunately, it just seems to re-arrange the planets' orbits and change their physical properties, like what you can do with hyperedit. No actually traveling to other star systems and no procedural terrain generation. Still, it's a start.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on October 23, 2014, 11:57:26 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on October 23, 2014, 06:46:52 pm
Experience makes sense for some things like science. Engineers could also get experience, but that isn't added. Maybe more experience Kerbals can recover more of their spacecraft upon landing? Also, there could be a walking speed boost/general boost in how well a Kerbal can EVA. Experienced Kerbals could also get more from contracts/attract better contracts.

Don't forget experience affecting control of the craft. A good pilot could provide a smoother ride, more effective rotation cancellation maybe, partially make up for issues with slightly off-kilter center of thrust/mass/lift. Finding free efficiency gains is bullshit, but why can't they help keep the craft under control? I mean, god help you if one of your wings falls off or an engine dies mid burn, but compensating for slight fuel imbalances or flame out on jet craft is a pain in the ass sometimes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2014, 12:06:00 am
They backed off on free efficiency gains a couple days ago...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on October 24, 2014, 12:23:26 am
All this nonsense about kerbal experience,  you know what your best kerbals really need?

A NEW CAR!
(http://img.ie/images/7hp7i_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/7hp7i.png.html)

The new Greiger Brand Speedrover will get your kerbals to their destination in style!  This high performance vehicle can take care of all your ground travel needs with 4 power generators, to keep it running all day and night with no need to recharge!

It also comes with headlights, taillights, battery storage for emergencies, and seating for two, so that your favorite kerbals can bring along a date for a wonderful night on the town.  It even comes with an automated drone core recycled from a crashed spaceplane! Who needs valet parking?

But wait there is more!  For those obsessed with speed, the Speedrover also comes equipped with a high capacity monopropellent tank and two monopropellant engines, for a maximum 'safe' speed at over 50 m/s!1 WOW!  That's enough speed to jump a building!  And look at that!  Jeb is jumping mission control RIGHT NOW!2
(http://img.ie/images/zi66u_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/zi66u.png.html)

Buy a Greiger Speedrover today for just the low low price of √20,255!  (financing is probably not available.  Lets face it you'll wreck it within an hour)

1 Not responsible for kerbal deaths from going at, anywhere near, or beyond 'safe' speed.  The word 'safe' is used as a branding term only and does not imply safety in any form.  That's just the last recorded speed before one of the tires blew and the car went into a deathroll.

2. No kerbals were harmed before the images were taken.  Jeb not pictured, that is Jeb's stunt double Bill.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 24, 2014, 11:18:46 am
Its not a kerbswagon beetle tho.
I mean, those things are tiny, airdroppable and awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2014, 12:03:32 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 24, 2014, 12:06:00 am
They backed off on free efficiency gains a couple days ago...

No more good drivers, eh? Nothing but lead foots at KSP? I believe it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 24, 2014, 12:10:50 pm
I'd actually consider Kerbal experience having effects on EVA RCS efficiency believable. EVA movement speed. Virtual joystick accuracy and smoothness. SAS effectiveness. And indeed maximum thrust, although not ISP - a pilot with a cautious personality may be reluctant to actually push the engines to 100%.

I wouldn't actually altogether mind pilots having effects on rocket performance in Career, although I'd prefer if it was negative influence rather than positive - a perfect pilot would make the craft perform exactly as it would in Sandbox.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on October 24, 2014, 12:12:57 pm
What was the name of the strategy that turned profit from missions into science, and has anyone else found it to be slightly overpowered? I had it turned on to convert 20 percent of my profits into science, and when I got back from a vacation to Duna (explore Ike, explore Duna, and a plant flag mission on each) I got a load of science big enough to unlock everything in the tech tree that wasn't already unlocked with 3000 science left over, and I still got a very hefty amount of moolah from the trip. Kerbals came home safe too.

I never even had to get science from around the sun to complete the tech tree :P

I can't say I really support exp. affecting how crafts perform, unless it's little things like affecting maneuverability, and the things that Sean said. Nothing that could ruin a mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 24, 2014, 12:39:10 pm
installed eva fix, worked fine for capsule. happily went to mun, jumped on the rover seat for landing, evaed from the seat for science and got ejected at thousand meter per second toward mun surface.

damn.

Spoiler: followup: rageeeequit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 24, 2014, 12:49:27 pm
setting outsourced R&D to 20%-25% (converts funds into science) is an incredible boost with high fund missions.
a mission to test a S3 KS 25*4 engine cluster in orbit nets me 5600 science, of which 5482 is due to fund-science conversion.

might be slightly overpowered.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on October 24, 2014, 12:52:03 pm
Managed to get a C-class asteroid into mostly low orbit around Kerbin(apoapsis is 1,600km, periapsis is 160km). I'm surpised I pulled it off. Originally, I was going to mine the asteroid for Karbonite and turn it into fuel for the trip back, but the drills didn't work, possibly because I put them facing up instead of down? Still, I had just enough fuel to make into that orbit.

And only had to edit the savefile once, and I only did that because the refueling craft I sent bugged out despite it working on a previous test run.

Unfortunately, the asteroid might now be useless because I can't seem to mine it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on October 24, 2014, 01:06:51 pm
finished nearly the whole tech tree on that single mission ( would have been able to complete it all twice over, had I pushed the slider to 50%). I am playing on normal settings, but this just seems... wrong. haven't even orbited moon yet. Need to try harder settings next time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 24, 2014, 04:38:40 pm
Yeah, they should probably nerf the value of funds relative to other currencies when it comes to strategies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 24, 2014, 04:42:30 pm
Quote from: andrea on October 24, 2014, 01:06:51 pm
finished nearly the whole tech tree on that single mission ( would have been able to complete it all twice over, had I pushed the slider to 50%). I am playing on normal settings, but this just seems... wrong. haven't even orbited moon yet. Need to try harder settings next time.

You can always not use that branch of KSC. Defeats its purpose buuuuut... not everything Squad does is for experienced players. Actually none of it is. There are still some balance issues on top of that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 24, 2014, 04:48:54 pm
Quote from: andrea on October 24, 2014, 01:06:51 pm
finished nearly the whole tech tree on that single mission ( would have been able to complete it all twice over, had I pushed the slider to 50%). I am playing on normal settings, but this just seems... wrong. haven't even orbited moon yet. Need to try harder settings next time.

This is why I do the opposite. 

My First Contract campaign had me absolutely rolling in the science -- I wanted to be struggling to reach Duna with substandard parts, but I ended up owning most of the tech tree with a few missions.  Part of that is my fault, for launching massive multiple-lander-vehicles to mine science from Minmus and Mun, but still.

Anyhow, in Economic Boom, I used the strategy system to convert science into moneys to slow down the advancement a bit.  Seems to be working out pretty well.  I use the extra moneys to build comm relays for Remote Tech. 

There are enough non-mission flights I want to run (refueling and extra-life support stations in orbit, etc) that I can burn through the surplus moneys -- but having a surplus of science short-cuts the feeling of campaign progress for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 24, 2014, 05:22:06 pm
I use Reputation for funds and science, and it works well. I have some upper parts unlocked, but I've had trouble getting enough money, even without crashing into the launchpad once. I also have to limit what I unlock to what I need. This probably wouldn't work on much less than Hard, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 24, 2014, 05:26:11 pm
you must be playing ironman.  I imagine this would be significantly harder on your funds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 24, 2014, 05:32:20 pm
Quote from: puke on October 24, 2014, 05:26:11 pm
you must be playing ironman.  I imagine this would be significantly harder on your funds.

Yeah, it adds a challenge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on October 25, 2014, 02:30:45 pm
I was kind of hoping that strategies would determine a little more about how you design missions, like a "Nuclear-Free Zone" strategy that completely bans NERVAs and RTGs and gives you reputation penalties if any already-existing nukes enter the atmosphere, but grants a reputation bonus otherwise.

Or, a Celebrity Astronauts where unmanned missions decrease reputation but all manned missions gain reputation depending on how far they go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 27, 2014, 05:32:48 am
What does reputation even do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 27, 2014, 05:59:35 am
Quote from: Japa on October 27, 2014, 05:32:48 am
What does reputation even do?

contract payments and availability I think
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 27, 2014, 10:31:39 am
Quote from: Japa on October 27, 2014, 05:32:48 am
What does reputation even do?

It influences which contracts you get offered and probably how many at any given time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on October 27, 2014, 01:04:57 pm
It's fun to play with a bit. I spent a ton of reputation by purchasing some strategies, and they stopped giving me the big money missions.

Had to work at it a bit before anyone wanted to pay me to explore another planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 31, 2014, 06:42:10 am
50 minutes burn - ion is efficient, but booring

(http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/28472540195399925/9CE8486CB986A3AA4439FD892454D4A9BC643BB4/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2014, 06:59:37 am
That's just ridiculously low TWR. You can get much better burn times with a few Near Future solar panels and a basic Gyro-Two argon thruster. To say nothing of a, say, AFTER xenon thruster. Or a HI-SNAP, although the energy requirements for those start mounting up pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 31, 2014, 07:08:45 am
That's why you force physical time warp or set burns like that with higher twr chemical rockets. A Poodle and the smallest 2.5m tank could push that vehicle far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on October 31, 2014, 07:19:12 am
Yeah, but 6000 m/s ⌂v !
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: rumpel on October 31, 2014, 08:46:25 am
Just played my first 2 hours and already lost a command pod + kerbonaut in the orbit on accident. Poor little guy. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 31, 2014, 09:25:07 am
Quote from: Sheb on October 31, 2014, 07:19:12 am
Yeah, but 6000 m/s ⌂v !
Not even that good m8.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 31, 2014, 09:40:50 am
Poodle and smallest 2.5m tank alone is 3500 m/s with a really nice TWR if it's pushing a small payload. That will shave half an hour off the burn. Totally worth it. With an atomic and same tank plus a quarter of a ton more you can get double that dV using the Atomic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 31, 2014, 10:03:16 am
that antenna required for remote tech weights a lot, plus it needs some gigantor to run and each gigantor needs a radiator or two thanks to interstellar :P

to make things work there is a lot of dead weight to carry around (just the way I like it, no mad stuff like satellite visiting jools out of a xeno tank)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 31, 2014, 10:57:57 am
I know all those parts. I add in ScanSat parts to stuff like that and a Poodle pusher can help save time. Using two Ions also helps, but the panels aren't enough if you're relying entirely on the biggest dish for connection. That dish is only half a ton. The Gigantor's collectively weigh more.

This thing is built for Jool aerocapture. It has 1700 m/s to play with around Jool. That's a poodle pushing around 20 tons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It doesn't need to even touch the poodle before it hits Jool's SOI.

Just swapped in an Atomic and it gets 0.43 TWR and 3500 m/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on November 04, 2014, 08:30:11 pm
Had the luxury of playing this on the laptop last night. Sent a mission to Moho, and managed to put my craft on a collision course with it. Fixed that after much panicking when I realized the collision was only 3 minutes away. And of course i hadnt quicksaved yet. I apparently bled off most of that speed in correcting for a flyover with 30km head room: when I left the periapsis was 7 minutes out. Barely enough time to finish circularizing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 06, 2014, 02:18:51 am
Something in Remote Tech seems to have broken in my Realism Overhaul game. I can't launch satellites because it doesn't register a link while on the ground. Once I get something to space it can connect with the ground fine, but not within the atmosphere. I even tried making my launch platform into a remote command center to no avail. I was able to control probes before, and I haven't changed anything about the game since then so I don't know what could have happened.

Also, in light of the recent SpaceShipTwo crash, I tried to make a replica of SpaceShipOne. It actually looks pretty good considering the limited parts, but I haven't been able to get it into space yet. The aerodynamics are extremely difficult to get right when dealing with something so small with a strongly shifting mass, and I can't emulate the feathering effect since I'm not using infernal robotics. I've gotten it to the point where it can deploy from the launcher and make it to about 50km, but the weight of the wings causes it to destabilize and stall out as it uses fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 06, 2014, 02:33:29 am
I this is a feature. Check your antennas.

most are fragile and needed to be extended after you are in space. There are a couplethat work immediately and in atmosphere, you will need one of those to launch an unpiloted craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 06, 2014, 02:35:23 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 06, 2014, 02:18:51 am
I've gotten it to the point where it can deploy from the launcher and make it to about 50km, but the weight of the wings causes it to destabilize and stall out as it uses fuel.


have you put rcs on your replica nose? vernors might actually be required even if they use a smaller rcs system.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 06, 2014, 03:04:17 am
Quote from: puke on November 06, 2014, 02:33:29 am
I this is a feature. Check your antennas.
I'm using the correct antennas. Upon further experimentation with a plane, it seems I can only connect above a certain altitude. There's probably something wrong with the Real Solar System terrain or the RSS Remote tech configs. Still no idea why remote command centers aren't working.

Quote
have you put rcs on your replica nose? vernors might actually be required even if they use a smaller rcs system.
Yes I have RCS, both for maneuvering and as a ballast during early flight. I guess expanding the RCS would be a good idea since I need to burn it off before reentry anyway. I also think I can afford to reduce the strength/mass of the wings so they don't offset the CoM so much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 06, 2014, 03:17:48 am
Could it be that since Real Solar System increases all distances (Kerbin's only a tenth the size of the Earth) you're simply too far for RemoteTech?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 06, 2014, 03:47:09 am
Quote from: Sheb on November 06, 2014, 03:17:48 am
Could it be that since Real Solar System increases all distances (Kerbin's only a tenth the size of the Earth) you're simply too far for RemoteTech?
No, and Realism Overhaul changes some of the ranges for RSS anyway. Like I said, it only happens below a certain altitude so it's probably something to do with the terrain blocking the signal.

Anyway, with a few modifications I achieved a new altitude record of 53km and didn't stall, although the start of the burn was pretty unstable and needed all the additional RCS to stay on target. I even could have landed it if there were a runway to do it. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough fuel to get to space without some extreme flying during the horizontal ascent stage. I'll probably have to rebalance all the fuels. Fortunately, real fuels makes that pretty easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2014, 09:44:28 am
You might be over the horizon from your launch site in relation to the source signal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 06, 2014, 01:32:28 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 06, 2014, 09:44:28 am
You might be over the horizon from your launch site in relation to the source signal.
Hm. Kerbin is small so the horizon is a lot closer than on Earth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 06, 2014, 01:43:01 pm
Except when you have a mod that makes it bigger and earth sized.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2014, 02:04:06 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 06, 2014, 01:43:01 pm
Except when you have a mod that makes it bigger and earth sized.

Exactly. If RT mashed into 6.4 Kerbin is even a little off then you'll only get a connection up in the air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on November 06, 2014, 10:01:55 pm
I have discovered the cheese that is paying money for science and also having a permanent base on the moon.

I get 2k science every time somebody gives me a contract to put a flag on the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2014, 10:35:34 pm
Quote from: Japa on November 06, 2014, 10:01:55 pm
I have discovered the cheese that is paying money for science and also having a permanent base on the moon.

I get 2k science every time somebody gives me a contract to put a flag on the mun.

Cheater. Stop using a broken system in an alpha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 06, 2014, 10:39:54 pm
next version it'll be a broken system in a beta and then you won't be able to complain HA
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 08, 2014, 04:00:46 pm
So the low-tech KSC coming in 0.90 looks pretty cool: http://imgur.com/a/G2sUx#0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 08, 2014, 04:13:34 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 08, 2014, 04:00:46 pm
So the low-tech KSC coming in 0.90 looks pretty cool: http://imgur.com/a/G2sUx#0
So it does. Also... rather Kerbal. Sort of.
I think poorly built industrial would look more appropriate than well built rustic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 08, 2014, 04:39:54 pm
It needs more trees (far more) or else looking less like it belongs in the Catskills.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2014, 05:33:35 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 08, 2014, 04:13:34 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 08, 2014, 04:00:46 pm
So the low-tech KSC coming in 0.90 looks pretty cool: http://imgur.com/a/G2sUx#0
So it does. Also... rather Kerbal. Sort of.
I think poorly built industrial would look more appropriate than well built rustic.


same here, I hate the dumb rustic kerbals theme
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 08, 2014, 07:04:30 pm
Quote from: Ispil on November 08, 2014, 06:56:54 pm
EDIT: Also, literally all of it was straight out of KSP. You could see the RCS thrusters direct the ship- the docking scene was identical to stuff out of KSP. It was perfect.

That reminds me of the first time I visited London.  "Man, this place looks just like New England," I thought.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 08, 2014, 08:28:59 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 08, 2014, 05:33:35 pm
same here, I hate the dumb rustic kerbals theme
I wouldn't say I hate the look, I just don't think it's the best choice. The kind of dilapidated and basic look of the island airfield would be more fitting than wooden stuff. The trailers work fine though, it's mostly the VAB and other assorted log cabins that are a problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 08, 2014, 08:35:24 pm
Is it wood? I thought it was rusted sheet metal or something. I agree that a log cabin VAB would be pretty dumb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 08, 2014, 09:57:14 pm
I would much rather it looks like some government decided to create a space program with no funding at all, over "ye olde space programme"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 08:47:08 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 08, 2014, 08:35:24 pm
Is it wood? I thought it was rusted sheet metal or something. I agree that a log cabin VAB would be pretty dumb.
It would have to be very uniformly rusted and unusually rusted, at that. No, I'm certain beyond reasonable doubt that it's supposed to look like wood. Like I said, that's the only bit I have a problem with to be honest. The trailers and shoddy prefab buildings are actually rather appropriate. The VAB would probably do better to match, maybe like a dilapidated warehouse that has clearly just been rotated 90 degrees to rest on the short side.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on November 09, 2014, 09:06:07 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 08:47:08 am
like a dilapidated warehouse that has clearly just been rotated 90 degrees to rest on the short side.
Buildings don't work like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 09:17:55 am
Quote from: Mini on November 09, 2014, 09:06:07 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 08:47:08 am
like a dilapidated warehouse that has clearly just been rotated 90 degrees to rest on the short side.
Buildings don't work like that.
Yes I know.
That's what's so Kerbal about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Octobomb on November 09, 2014, 09:21:35 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 09:17:55 am
Quote from: Mini on November 09, 2014, 09:06:07 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 08:47:08 am
like a dilapidated warehouse that has clearly just been rotated 90 degrees to rest on the short side.
Buildings don't work like that.
Yes I know.
That's what's so Kerbal about it.
I'm not sure you two know how buildings work.
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bf/c6/0f/bfc60f8fb12897b022eeefdd153a94ca.jpg)
I beg to differ.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 09, 2014, 09:50:41 am
Does the VAB have to be a closed building at the beginning at all? It could just consist of some precariously stacked scaffolding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 11:25:19 am
No, ultimately space craft need to be built in as clean a place as possible. Airplanes are also not built outdoors. They take time to build and if it rains during construction your internal components will be ruined. Heck, there's a fighter jet that can't even operate in rain.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on November 09, 2014, 11:46:30 am
We're talking about KSP though: they just pop rockets almost instantly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 12:04:16 pm
Unless you have THAT mod.
Or you choose to wait between launches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 12:17:00 pm
Quote from: Sheb on November 09, 2014, 11:46:30 am
We're talking about KSP though: they just pop rockets almost instantly.

from an enclosed VAB and SPH.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2014, 03:07:24 pm
Could still be "open" as in having no walls.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 03:14:23 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 11:25:19 am
No, ultimately space craft need to be built in as clean a place as possible. Airplanes are also not built outdoors. They take time to build and if it rains during construction your internal components will be ruined. Heck, there's a fighter jet that can't even operate in rain.
This is not a game that cares about small details like that if it gets in the way of being fun. See: the way fuel works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 03:24:18 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 03:14:23 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 11:25:19 am
No, ultimately space craft need to be built in as clean a place as possible. Airplanes are also not built outdoors. They take time to build and if it rains during construction your internal components will be ruined. Heck, there's a fighter jet that can't even operate in rain.
This is not a game that cares about small details like that if it gets in the way of being fun. See: the way fuel works.


nah, it may be reckless, but it ain't about garbage cans in space. all the parts are sleek, efficient and purpose built. That barn sticks out as a sore thumb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 03:26:48 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 03:24:18 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 03:14:23 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 11:25:19 am
No, ultimately space craft need to be built in as clean a place as possible. Airplanes are also not built outdoors. They take time to build and if it rains during construction your internal components will be ruined. Heck, there's a fighter jet that can't even operate in rain.
This is not a game that cares about small details like that if it gets in the way of being fun. See: the way fuel works.
nah, it may be reckless, but it ain't about garbage cans in space. all the parts are sleek, efficient and purpose built. That barn sticks out as a sore thumb.
The part descriptions tell otherwise. I reckon the only reason the parts look sleek, efficient, and purpose built is because it's easier to make a craft look cohesive like that. Also it's a less complex model than something covered in dents and irregularities, so that's something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 03:29:55 pm
well I hope it will not all become in style bargain rocket parts

> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58639-0-24-Bargain-Rocket-Parts-v1-1-Bust-out-the-duct-tape-we-re-going-to-space%21


otherwise 0.25 will be the last version for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 03:33:49 pm
I don't think it would be all.
For item theming, I think it's ideally meant to be like The Sims (that might also be the style of description and the VAB music affecting that though). Multiple tiers of items, with the cheapest being ugly unreliable shit, then up to standard looking dependable parts, then right at the top are amazingly sleek looking and incredibly effective parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 04:06:08 pm
also, everything he say

http://i.imgur.com/onpH9fp.jpg
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on November 09, 2014, 04:20:02 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 04:06:08 pm
also, everything he say

http://i.imgur.com/onpH9fp.jpg

That's by Bac9, the guy who did B9 and made the current KSC. He also posted similar criticism on the mission control building, but squad just kinda ignored it. Here's hoping they don't this time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fniff on November 09, 2014, 04:31:59 pm
I actually thought that .90 was going to be a mod when I first saw the image, and wondered why people were getting so upset. If it's official, then I'm not sure if I like the direction either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 04:51:42 pm
Poor Bac, putting their heart and soul into the KSC buildings, only to see them try putting things like that in that might well go along side them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 09, 2014, 05:07:20 pm
I'm holding out hope that Squad is showing us the programmer art.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fniff on November 09, 2014, 05:13:36 pm
I think I would be fine with it if it was just programmer art. Kerbal Space Program is a very realistic rocket simulator... but not so much on everything else.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 09, 2014, 05:35:10 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 09, 2014, 05:07:20 pm
I'm holding out hope that Squad is showing us the programmer art.


devnote tuesday:

Quote
The art style is based on the Kerbal lifestyle. We’re almost done with the building production, but we’re making some slight modifications to make them look better. I’m looking forward to see how they work in-game.

boy I do hope you're right and they are not 'almost done'
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 09, 2014, 05:40:03 pm
Quote
we’re making some slight modifications to make them look better.

Hopefully 'slight' isn't really very slight at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 05:51:31 pm
I think the plan is that you start with the idiotic look then tech up to get the normal one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2014, 08:07:08 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 05:51:31 pm
I think the plan is that you start with the idiotic look then tech up to get the normal one.

Yes, you start from a bare minimum and build up in stages. Who thought that wasn't the case?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 09:02:48 pm
Ispil's comment seemed to imply that these where going to be there forever, at all times.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 09, 2014, 09:26:41 pm
I think some of you are overreacting. Sure on closer inspection the models are pretty lazy and some of the textures are just godawful, but it'll probably look fine at a distance. Well, maybe not the VAB. It's still not something I would consider boycotting the update for. I'm more worried that it's part of the continuing the trend of Squad rushing releases and not fleshing out new features, which doesn't bode well for the other additions. Doubly so because this is supposedly the first "Beta" release with all the core features intact.

When it was announced I was thinking that upgrading the VAB would perhaps expand the working area, but it looks like barn is just as big as the current VAB. So what effects do upgraded buildings have? Lower production costs? Access to more advanced parts? Does a low tech VAB put arbitrary restrictions on the craft editor (god I hope not)? I really don't care how they look as long as the upgradeable buildings have good, thought out effects.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on November 09, 2014, 11:03:29 pm
Man are we really 1st april? Otherwise i hope its all a joke..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 10, 2014, 12:40:40 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on November 09, 2014, 09:02:48 pm
Ispil's comment seemed to imply that these where going to be there forever, at all times.

No. This is not the case. Go to twitch.tv/ksptv and watch the Maxmaps Friday hour. The last two Friday's cover the plans, which are upgradeable buildings. All of them will have multiple stages of growth and modernization. Max is the person that tells the community what Squad is up to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 10, 2014, 09:25:25 am
Well, it wouldn't be the first time Squad rethought a feature due to the large amount of complaints they received (kerbal EXP for instance).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 10, 2014, 10:34:08 am
The buildings are going to be very flexible in how you destroy and rebuild them. You can go back to cheaper tiers if you're low on funds. They've thought out how they work. XP wasn't well thought out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on November 10, 2014, 10:34:51 am
I meant more along the lines of their aesthetic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 10, 2014, 12:26:04 pm
I don't even care if they're made of wood. Just so long as the models are on par with the current models.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 10, 2014, 05:50:57 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 10, 2014, 12:26:04 pm
I don't even care if they're made of wood. Just so long as the models are on par with the current models.

the roofs lack rear faces so you can see trough looking from botton, and the Bac9 analysis of their geometry doesn't hint at them being anything close to what he did for the current vab.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 10, 2014, 07:30:56 pm
I managed to get my SpaceShipOne replica to an altitude of 92 km, which is about 20 km lower than the highest altitude the real one achieved. Unfortunately the lead ballast I'm using to keep the craft balanced can't be transferred or dumped with TAC fuel balancer, so during reentry the craft goes into a nosedive and burns up. The only solution I can see which wouldn't necessitate completely redesigning the craft would be to switch back to a mono-propellant ballast, which would cut its delta-v in half. I think this is as far as I can go while still keeping the SS1 design.

Also I still can't figure out what is wrong with remote tech. I thought it was just a terrain issue, but even when the map shows a connection with the ground, it's in grey instead of green and doesn't allow for remote control. The Realism Overhaul says the probe cores are not supported, so maybe it disables your ability to control them through remote tech? I might just have to mod them to work as they do in stock, which would be a shame.

Edit: Updating RO seems to have fixed it, yay!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on November 15, 2014, 03:14:03 am
Speaking of which, I recently created a version of Virgin Galactic craft as well. Using FAR for better aerodynamics, infernal robotics for the feathering.
https://imgur.com/a/yyoP8
Like the real one, it drops from a carrier mothership. Unlike the real one, the carrier mothership does not fly home, since multitasking airplanes isn't something that can happen in ksp. It also drops at up to 1200m/s; well above what the real one drops at.

The version in those images are a slightly earlier version than the really successful one; I removed the forwardmost wing surface and inserted an advanced control just behind the cockpit. Before doing that, the one pictures would flip out of control. After doing it, it flew surprisingly well, with even the feathering acting exactly as intended.

My final flight with that better version had an apoapse of 120km, with a forward velocity of 2000m/s; enough to put it down on the far side of the planet. It then did an unpowered gliding descent, using the feathering to speed up or slow down as necessary. It touched down at a nifty 120m/s, entirely in control. Though unfortunately it didn't survive the landing, as it was landing on a hill at night, and so naturally tipped on its side and exploded. All in all, FAR handled the feathering mechanism quite nicely.

And yes, like the real one, if feathered while the engines are on, it rapidly flips around backward.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vattic on November 16, 2014, 12:25:11 am
Sounds like they are listening to feedback on the low tech buildings (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/102413039659). Wonder what we'll end up with.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: lastverb on November 16, 2014, 04:15:48 am
IMO they should drop that building b****t update and do 1 version release with some mod features implemented into core (they are fixing their game, and i mean it's all out there):
1) FAR - that's obvious, atmosphere mechanics are stupid in base game.
2) Procedural fairings - FAR can't exists without it
3) Crew manifest - no comment
4) Kerbal Engineer Redux - really? no info about the craft while designing it?
5) KAS - no comment

Optional (with possibility to turn on/off in campaign difficulty settings, due to changing difficulty of the game):
1) TAC life support - obvious
2) RemoteTech - adds depth to unmanned probes
3) TweakSize - why can't i make bigger/smaller parts? can be very cheaty with missions thought
4) Stage recovery - it simply automate process of changing craft, manually deploying chutes and manually recovering
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 16, 2014, 04:43:13 am
One the best parts about mods is how optional they're are.
As it stands, a decent amount of people don't like FAR, remotetech, life support, etc. and would appreciate it not being forced into their game.

Having them in options sort of ruins it as well. Time spent making FAR ingame and toggle-able In the options menu would be better spent doing other things. Modding isn't really that hard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 16, 2014, 05:04:01 am
And besides, while it won't be FAR, aerodynamic fixes are on the plate right after scope-completion, which is next update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2014, 05:19:34 am
Kerbal engineer being included by default would be great though.
It lets you see:
Altitude above terrain
Apoapsis and periapsis in craft view (so you can keep an eye on your rocket)
TWR
etc

All of it is incredibly useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 16, 2014, 07:00:47 am
And incredibly easy to install as a mod. Evidently Squad don't feel that this info should be available in regular KSP yet, because as far as I know KerbalEDU does have that functionality.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2014, 10:05:40 am
they stated somewhere they are not going to add dv and other info in plain ksp. but they often change idea and follow the community feedback to an extent, so it depends on demand I guess.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 16, 2014, 11:48:33 am
It might be interesting if they add techs that modify parts, like one that adds HUDs and such to internals... I mean, it even makes sense. Spaceshuttles had a bunch of guff strapped on inside by the end of their lives...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on November 16, 2014, 01:44:26 pm
I've started a new career, having overextended myself (budget-wise) in my excitement of having unlocked a load of kerbinite and TAC modules (and then promptly managing to blow up several missions' credit worth on the launchpad).  This time I'm being much more minimalist.

While I could install Engineer, it conflicts with a couple of other mods I've got installed (I think), so I'm calculating TWRs by hand at the moment.  I'm thinking I can get a single basic solid booster engine to lift four of itself, a separator, a T-30 engine, a T400 fuel tank, a capsule and a MK16 parachute.

Turns out my thinking was correct, but it's not QUITE enough to get into a stable orbit.  D'oh!

Edit: I successfully landed a kerbal on the Mun and planted a flag.  :)  Then realised I didn't have enough delta-V to get them back, and they only had a day or so's worth of life support supplies (I'm playing with TAC) left with them.

Cue a rescue mission!  Successfully launched a probe-headed ship with an empty command pod to the Mun, and landed it a mere 500m (500m!) away from my crashed kerbal.  The landing went almost perfectly, but on the rocky terrain I suffered a minor scrape...and the engine exploded.

So now I have one engined-vehicle with no fuel, and one full(ish) fuel tank with no engine, and no way to attach the two or transfer the fuel.  Sigh.  Still, at least the rescue vehicle was carrying a week's worth of supplies, which are still intact and usable, so the kerbal can survive until MunRescue-02 can get there (in one piece, hopefully).  And they managed to recover all the lovely, lovely science from their old command pod, so I'm still hoping to return all of these goodies eventually.

TAC Lifesupport really piles on the pressure if you do something stupidly wrong (like forgetting to add decent supplies to your initial munar lander, heh).  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 18, 2014, 01:31:20 am
So, continuing my attempts at replicating commercial spaceplanes while using Realism Overhaul, here's Sierra Nevada's Dream Chaser, after launching from Cape Canaveral:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It still has a few problems I need to work out. For some reason the RCS system doesn't seem to work at all, and from what I've seen the control surfaces don't do so well either. The launcher also has some problems such as massive oscillations in the first stage and the second stage not firing at all. However, as you can see, I made it to space regardless (though not quite orbit).

Overall it was a lot easier to get right than SpaceShipOne. Mostly because I only need to really worry about aerodynamics for reentry while with SS1 they were a constant concern. I wish the new Mk.3 parts were out so I could make the cockpit a bit more accurate. As it is, it can only hold 6 kerbals as opposed to 7 and the nose section is all wrong, oh well. I know there's an actual Dream Chaser mod, but this seemed like more fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on November 18, 2014, 01:36:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 18, 2014, 01:43:18 am
Kraken: 1, Reaper: 0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2014, 01:51:06 am
Someone call a doctor, it's having a seizure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on November 18, 2014, 01:55:43 am
Why is it wiggling, and how is it holding together?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on November 18, 2014, 04:03:41 am
Quote from: lastverb on November 16, 2014, 04:15:48 am
IMO they should drop that building b****t update and do 1 version release with some mod features implemented into core (they are fixing their game, and i mean it's all out there):
1) FAR - that's obvious, atmosphere mechanics are stupid in base game.
2) Procedural fairings - FAR can't exists without it
3) Crew manifest - no comment
4) Kerbal Engineer Redux - really? no info about the craft while designing it?
5) KAS - no comment

Optional (with possibility to turn on/off in campaign difficulty settings, due to changing difficulty of the game):
1) TAC life support - obvious
2) RemoteTech - adds depth to unmanned probes
3) TweakSize - why can't i make bigger/smaller parts? can be very cheaty with missions thought
4) Stage recovery - it simply automate process of changing craft, manually deploying chutes and manually recovering

Stage recovery is nice.

I tried TweakSize recently and it was completely broken: Reduced-size parts had negative costs, and KSP crashed to desktop when my negative cost rocket crashed (deliberately) into Kerbin. I'm assuming an incompatibility with another mod I'm using since there wasn't anything about negative costs on the bug tracker.

I wouldn't want to see FAR forced in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 18, 2014, 06:48:29 am
The problem with all that mod is they have a godawful interface and clutter the game with parts.

Examples

Crew manifest has too much menu to do anything

Fairing should be implicit like they are for the engines, at most realized as a tweaker on a standard decoupler

Kas add billions parts and most of them redundant. Like the claw and the magnetic attachment and the attach to ports fuel duct and the actual attachable port etc etc.

Don't get me wrong I use most of them and then some and I love them for the most part but they are a far shot from the game accessibility
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 18, 2014, 07:29:57 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 18, 2014, 01:36:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Needs more struts, unless you were going for Miyazakian nightmare fuel, in which case; moar boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on November 18, 2014, 05:41:56 pm
I managed to recover my stranded kerbonaut from the Mun intact!  Intact and alive!  I lost another lander while doing so, but that's what I get for stupidly landing my first manned mission on the lip of a crater.  Nice, flat spaces are far more preferable.  :P

Happily, even after all the research and design work that I put into getting the guy back alive, the science that I managed to retrieve more than made up for it, teching me up nicely.  I was also able to use a cut-down version of my rescue rocket to run a couple of kerbal-in-orbit rescue contracts, which more than paid me back for the expenses incurred.

So now my budget is healthy, my tech is more advanced than it was (mainsail ahoy, yay!) and I can start thinking about pursuing interplanetary contracts now.  Unmanned, of course.  Fool me once.   :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 19, 2014, 10:07:13 pm
I decided to send an unmanned mission to the Moon today. Since I wasn't exactly sure of how much delta-v I needed, I over-engineered the design a bit. I ended up giving it over 20 km/s of delta-v at launch, with a launcher just under half the mass of a Saturn V. If you're used to the kerbal scale then this is freaking MASSIVE, but with RO it worked out to be just a bit more than necessary to land on the Moon and come back.

Other than the larger scale, the biggest challenge came from Remote Tech's signal delay, which averaged about 1.2 seconds. Not so much as to make real-time control impossible, but enough that manually keeping the lander on target was difficult. After a failed first attempt I settled on using RT's simplified autopilot to hold retrograde while I controlled the throttle. I ended up doing a very smooth landing going from 300 to 2 m/s over about 10000m, rather than the more efficient method of killing all velocity close to the ground. Fortunately my lander turned out to be pretty well suited for the task and the second attempt went pretty much perfectly (well third, but no one told me the Moon had 15 km tall mountains).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 20, 2014, 12:02:47 am
Ah, terrain.  You are burning retrograde, coming in for a nice, smooth landing... AND THEN SURPRISE MOUNTAIN.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 20, 2014, 12:04:19 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on November 19, 2014, 10:07:13 pm
Other than the larger scale, the biggest challenge came from Remote Tech's signal delay, which averaged about 1.2 seconds.
Do you have any idea how to do a fully automated landing with remote tech?  I can't figure it out.

Outside the Kerbin system, delay is too high to control the throttle or anything else yourself.  And I can't figure out how to give instructions relative to distance above surface...

With a little atmosphere I can put probes down with parachutes... but without atmosphere I guess you need a six-kerbal command center somewhere within a reasonable latency?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on November 20, 2014, 12:36:44 am
Using only the RT autopilot you could pull off a distant landing on an airless world by exactly calculating when you'd need to burn, how long, how much to throttle up, etc. You'd need to know all the various variables for your rocket and the planet as well as the altitude of the landing site and your velocity at the surface. I don't know the calculations you'd need to do off hand. If you did the math right and the autopilot didn't screw up too badly, you could probably get successful landings fairly consistently.

Also, I may be wrong but I think there are mods which integrate with RT to provide more functionality for programming probes. I don't know what any of them are, but I think I saw it mentioned on either the RO or RT mod threads.

Edit: this mod is suggested by the RT thread, skimming through the description indicates that it adds SRBs which can be armed like parachute and automatically fire to land. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61294

Doubleedit: Reading through RT's wiki, I just found out you can enter in a delta-v value for burns. That should simplify things for programming suicide burns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on November 20, 2014, 01:50:51 am
kOS should work with remotetech I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2014, 07:34:16 am
Quote from: jhxmt on November 16, 2014, 01:44:26 pm
TAC Lifesupport really piles on the pressure if you do something stupidly wrong (like forgetting to add decent supplies to your initial munar lander, heh).  ???

My most common mistake with it is forgetting that you need electric charge, and then having to pull seat-of-my-pants burns at multiple points in my return without throwing my return course too far off or running out of fuel.

Granted you feel awesome when you pull it off, but you feel REEEEEALLY stupid when it first runs out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on November 20, 2014, 08:56:59 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 18, 2014, 01:36:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*sigh* Once again, we have been denied spaceflight by the rampage of Mecha-Snuffaluffagus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on November 21, 2014, 07:13:26 am
Quote from: Akura on November 20, 2014, 08:56:59 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 18, 2014, 01:36:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*sigh* Once again, we have been denied spaceflight by the rampage of Mecha-Snuffaluffagus.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 21, 2014, 07:36:45 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on November 21, 2014, 07:13:26 am
Quote from: Akura on November 20, 2014, 08:56:59 am
Quote from: Dutchling on November 18, 2014, 01:36:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*sigh* Once again, we have been denied spaceflight by the rampage of Mecha-Snuffaluffagus.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is indeed a Reaper, however I couldn't tell you whether or not its silliness is out of the ordinary, as my computer currently thinks gifs are just still images.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 21, 2014, 07:37:13 am
What mod adds panels that big?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on November 21, 2014, 07:41:23 am
I may have found the source of that gif:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAsyvtctWQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAsyvtctWQ)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 21, 2014, 07:46:08 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on November 21, 2014, 07:41:23 am
I may have found the source of that gif:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAsyvtctWQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAsyvtctWQ)
Oh the whole thing is rescaled..... It's 2 km long aparrently
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YhpZoPIB8g
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: WillowLuman on November 21, 2014, 11:42:57 am
I see someone went to the Prometheus school of running away from things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 21, 2014, 12:14:33 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on November 20, 2014, 12:02:47 am
Ah, terrain.  You are burning retrograde, coming in for a nice, smooth landing... AND THEN SURPRISE MOUNTAIN.
This is why I love kerbal engineer and its "Altitude above terrain" feature.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2014, 11:51:41 pm
Unless you're using Interstellar you don't need much science. Mun/Minmus trips will max the stock tree. Dipping into the sun's soi is also a big boost.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 23, 2014, 02:04:56 am
Quote from: Caroline on November 22, 2014, 11:54:06 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on November 22, 2014, 11:51:41 pm
Unless you're using Interstellar you don't need much science. Mun/Minmus trips will max the stock tree. Dipping into the sun's soi is also a big boost.
I've grown tired of grinding Minmus.
Besides, this is more awesome, fun, hard, and rewarding.

Ike and Gilly missions help with the monotony. Just dive deep enough into Eve and Duna to grab upper atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 08:40:04 am
Are there any mods that let you empty custom storage containers before birth? Science Station mod adds a very heavy storage container, that weighs 20.3 but the container itself is only 0.3. It would be convenient if I could empty out the heavy contents and launch only the container, then later dock and transfer stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 23, 2014, 08:41:41 am
Right-click on the fuel tank or w/e and use the sliders to adjust it. Completely vanilla.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 09:04:56 am
It's not a fuel tank, so that won't work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on November 23, 2014, 09:24:06 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 09:04:56 am
It's not a fuel tank, so that won't work.
If it's a part that contains a resource, it will work. The system isn't exclusive to fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 23, 2014, 10:06:35 am
A kerbal can eva and remove the science from something like a goo canister or a materials bay, and then store them in his pod.

There is a storage limit of one experiment-type result per biome per pod, but you can still save a bit of return mass this way.

With a mobile science lab on your mothership, you could even clean and re-use the science parts after emptying them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on November 23, 2014, 10:46:26 am
Also damn near everyone wants their own separate flag on the mun.

Just have a permanent base there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 11:22:50 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 23, 2014, 09:24:06 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 09:04:56 am
It's not a fuel tank, so that won't work.
If it's a part that contains a resource, it will work. The system isn't exclusive to fuel.
strange, I right clicked and all I saw was a isToggled: False, no sliders or anything. I thought it worked too, bdcause I remember adjusting a SpareParts resource from 20 to 0 cause it was 1 mass per 1 resource.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 23, 2014, 11:39:42 am
Weird. See if there are any mods that work with it that allow you to bring up the supplies, see if they have the ability for you to do that...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 23, 2014, 12:08:48 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 11:22:50 am
Quote from: Graknorke on November 23, 2014, 09:24:06 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 09:04:56 am
It's not a fuel tank, so that won't work.
If it's a part that contains a resource, it will work. The system isn't exclusive to fuel.
strange, I right clicked and all I saw was a isToggled: False, no sliders or anything. I thought it worked too, bdcause I remember adjusting a SpareParts resource from 20 to 0 cause it was 1 mass per 1 resource.

Have a look at the modules in stock fuel tanks. There should be something that refers to editing resource. Work that into the science parts. I'm not at my computer at the moment.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 23, 2014, 09:06:20 pm
Apparently the isTweakable=true var in the resources file is what I needed to add. Woo! Successfully reduced my launch mass by 30.

Edit: The asteroid tracking mission from Fine Print seems pretty hard to do--it doesn't show up on the in-flight map view, meaning you have to basically guess where it is :/ Feels like there'd be a better way...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 02, 2014, 06:20:27 pm
And bringing you the latest and greatest in magnificent modding, here's one that -looks really good.-
(http://i.imgur.com/el8vCnb.jpg)
It's called Movietime. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/101681-0-25-WIP-MovieTime-v0-1-%28Nov-30%29-Olde-Timey-Movie-and-TV-Effects)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 05:18:53 am
Instagram: KSP edition :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 03, 2014, 08:34:46 am
Also, the Mark IV parts by Nertea are amazing  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 03, 2014, 09:13:40 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
It apparently has film stuttering. But yeah, this mod definitely needs piano music, and an option to make things go forward in sped up motion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 09:33:52 am
Somebody should make spaceworthy bowler helmets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 03, 2014, 09:42:47 am
Planes are so slow, how do you handle flying them places @.@

(http://i.imgur.com/I341SjG.png)
My little plane that could is flying at 225 m/s across the ocean to places unknown. I don't even know how large the ocean is...

edit: I just saw an eclipse!
(http://i.imgur.com/qBqGY6h.png)

edit2: an hour or so into the flight, the plane suddenly flipped out and crashed :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2014, 09:55:38 am
Either mechjeb or suborbital jumps
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 03, 2014, 11:19:46 am
Two things:

1: The higher you fly, the faster you fly. If you want to get any reasonable distance, get your plane to around 20km or more.

2: Planes are very sensitive to COM. If your COM goes behind your COL, you will lose stability. Do a test run with all but the rear-most fuel tanks empty to make sure your design can work after you used most of your fuel.

3: Missions that require you to do something flying over kerbin are made for planes, and really hard, if impossible to do, using rockets. So use them to give a reason for your flights.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ank on December 03, 2014, 11:28:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on December 03, 2014, 09:13:40 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
It apparently has film stuttering. But yeah, this mod definitely needs piano music, and an option to make things go forward in sped up motion.

You mean time-warp?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 11:39:27 am
Quote from: ank on December 03, 2014, 11:28:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on December 03, 2014, 09:13:40 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
It apparently has film stuttering. But yeah, this mod definitely needs piano music, and an option to make things go forward in sped up motion.

You mean time-warp?
Enjoy physwarp breaking your plane into little bits
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 03, 2014, 11:51:08 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 11:39:27 am
Quote from: ank on December 03, 2014, 11:28:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on December 03, 2014, 09:13:40 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
It apparently has film stuttering. But yeah, this mod definitely needs piano music, and an option to make things go forward in sped up motion.

You mean time-warp?
Enjoy physwarp breaking your plane into little bits

check out this strutless scrub
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 12:18:20 pm
Quote from: LordSlowpoke on December 03, 2014, 11:51:08 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 03, 2014, 11:39:27 am
Quote from: ank on December 03, 2014, 11:28:28 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on December 03, 2014, 09:13:40 am
Quote from: Ultimuh on December 03, 2014, 07:12:32 am
Does it come with ole timey piano music?


If so, then all we need are manly mustaches and bowler hats for our Kerbals.
It apparently has film stuttering. But yeah, this mod definitely needs piano music, and an option to make things go forward in sped up motion.

You mean time-warp?
Enjoy physwarp breaking your plane into little bits

check out this strutless scrub
>implying struts will save you from the wrath of FAR
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 03, 2014, 12:41:52 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 03, 2014, 09:42:47 am
My little plane that could is flying at 225 m/s across the ocean to places unknown
225 ms-1 is nothing. You want to be going at a couple kilometres per second really.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 03, 2014, 01:12:55 pm
I think a couple km/s puts you dangerously close to escape velocity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 03, 2014, 01:35:39 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 03, 2014, 01:12:55 pm
I think a couple km/s puts you dangerously close to escape velocity.
I deleted my old screenshots, but I've definitely taken a spaceplane a good way above 1 km/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on December 03, 2014, 01:43:44 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 03, 2014, 11:19:46 am
3: Missions that require you to do something flying over kerbin are made for planes, and really hard, if impossible to do, using rockets. So use them to give a reason for your flights.

Really? I've never had much problem flying those in rockets. Of course, I can't really do planes too well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on December 03, 2014, 02:04:46 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 03, 2014, 01:35:39 pm
Quote from: da_nang on December 03, 2014, 01:12:55 pm
I think a couple km/s puts you dangerously close to escape velocity.
I deleted my old screenshots, but I've definitely taken a spaceplane a good way above 1 km/s.
Below 2 km/s, sure, that's standard for spaceplanes in atmosphere. However, a 'couple' is typically 2+ and escape velocity in atmosphere is less than 3.5 km/s.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 03, 2014, 09:10:51 pm
I find the upper limit on plane speed to be almost exactly mach 4.

After that my engines usually overheat and asplode.

I forget how fast that is in m/s though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 03, 2014, 11:30:37 pm
Quote from: BFEL on December 03, 2014, 09:10:51 pm
I find the upper limit on plane speed to be almost exactly mach 4.

After that my engines usually overheat and asplode.

I forget how fast that is in m/s though.
4 Machs per second obviously.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 07, 2014, 11:53:25 am
How do I deal with front wheels like this one?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 07, 2014, 12:01:53 pm
Care to elaborate on what you mean?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on December 07, 2014, 12:13:55 pm
Quote from: BFEL on December 03, 2014, 09:10:51 pm
I find the upper limit on plane speed to be almost exactly mach 4.

After that my engines usually overheat and asplode.

I forget how fast that is in m/s though.
1361.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on December 07, 2014, 12:16:25 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 07, 2014, 12:01:53 pm
Care to elaborate on what you mean?

Pretty sure he doesn't want the drag from that strut hanging off the front. The only thing I can think of is a decoupler, but without a front landing gear, landing might get a bit interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 07, 2014, 12:18:42 pm
Quote from: Akura on December 07, 2014, 12:16:25 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 07, 2014, 12:01:53 pm
Care to elaborate on what you mean?

Pretty sure he doesn't want the drag from that strut hanging off the front. The only thing I can think of is a decoupler, but without a front landing gear, landing might get a bit interesting.
Struts and landing gear are physicsless, so that's a non-problem.
As for landing without front gear, you could go the 1960s space race route and use landing legs instead of wheels.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 07, 2014, 12:31:12 pm
Actually, FAR snapped it off like the twig that it is.

I was more thinking about how ugly it is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 07, 2014, 12:37:47 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 07, 2014, 12:31:12 pm
FAR
Well there's your problem with that.
The solution is to not have a plane where you need to have the gear so far out from the body.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 07, 2014, 08:08:22 pm
I have a Mun lander I want to send up, but its classic shape of a command module plus a lander makes for a ton of drag. How do you launch that sort of ship using NEAR/FAR without the rocket flipping? I tried using Procedural Fairings, but the fairings don't attach to the contents and just clip straight through it when I try a gravity turn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on December 07, 2014, 08:46:11 pm
Go from puller to pusher from pusher to puller style engines? Might be a designing nightmare to acheive but should be doable-ish.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 07, 2014, 11:09:19 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on December 07, 2014, 08:46:11 pm
Go from puller to pusher from pusher to puller style engines? Might be a designing nightmare to acheive but should be doable-ish.

Why in the world would that help?

EDIT: Just remembered the name, this is referring to the pendulum rocket fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 08, 2014, 01:30:09 am
The pendulum fallacy applies when the idea is hanging a mass below a rocket engine so gravity keeps it pointed in the right direction, like a pendulum. Since gravity acts on the whole rocket with the same force, it doesn't actually work.

However, with aerodynamics it's different. An object with a large amount of drag sitting on top of a rocket will be unstable, but having most drag near the base of the rocket, below the center of gravity, will help keep it pointed in the direction of motion. This is why lots of rockets have fins.

Here's a picture that explains it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So for Skyrunner's problem, converting to a puller-style rocket (with the payload at the bottom) is a perfectly valid solution. Using large fins that can overcome the drag of the payload would also work, albeit at a cost to performance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 08, 2014, 03:29:47 am
I broke the payload into two and launched them separately. I immediately regretted it because it was sooo shaky and unstable.

Also, my lander module had a tendancy to spin out when accelerating, even though its center of mass and thrust were aligned, and all parts were attached symmetrically. I have no idea why it did that. All the tanks were loaded symmetically too... ended up just keeping SAS on and accelerating slowly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 08, 2014, 05:16:07 am
Quote from: Japa on December 07, 2014, 12:31:12 pm
Actually, FAR snapped it off like the twig that it is.

I was more thinking about how ugly it is.

If you really need an extender for front landing gear, use a wing piece. Or just don't elevate the front gear at all and use a small engine to pitch up and balance on the rear landing gear at takeoff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 08, 2014, 06:10:47 am
I got my lander inside the procedural fairings just fine o-o
You should probably just use much more struts so the payload doesn't wobble.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 09, 2014, 02:29:26 am
Quote from: Japa on December 07, 2014, 11:53:25 am
How do I deal with front wheels like this one?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm...far more concerned with the crazy wings then the crazy wheels.

Tip for you and anyone else using FAR, less is more. Throwing extra ginormous wings in all directions fixes nothing, it just makes everything look insane.

Focus on making a nice big and solid pair of wings from your sides, then stick two tiny yaw stabilizers up near the ends, its really all you need.

_\____O____/_

^roughly what my planes end up looking like from the rear, though the payload (the "O") is usually flatter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 09, 2014, 02:35:47 am
So you make your planes XFA-36 (http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/260/259321/xfa36_render1.jpg) style?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 10, 2014, 02:40:48 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 09, 2014, 02:35:47 am
So you make your planes XFA-36 (http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/260/259321/xfa36_render1.jpg) style?

Sorta, usually I don't throw the yaw stabilizers right at the tip, and I would try and make the main wings more into one solid piece, but yeah, that looks good.

Also note that I make pretty much every plane with thermal turbojets from Interstellar. Because they can fly in atmosphere for literally 10 years non stop :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 10, 2014, 02:52:41 am
My game is stuck on this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How do I fix it? :/ It loads straight into this scene and I can't click anything.

edit: rebooted KSP anod now my career save got wiped-- year 1 day 1, no ships in flight, no technology researched. Sigh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 11, 2014, 12:17:57 pm
burn the computer
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 11, 2014, 01:16:48 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 10, 2014, 02:52:41 am
My game is stuck on this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How do I fix it? :/ It loads straight into this scene and I can't click anything.

edit: rebooted KSP anod now my career save got wiped-- year 1 day 1, no ships in flight, no technology researched. Sigh.

There was a mod that caused this if you alt-tabbed away from KSP during loading a save.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 14, 2014, 07:10:50 am
made it to duna and back... almost (http://imgur.com/a/lL1pl)

I still need to wait for the transfer to Kerbin... only two years. :|

I have around 9k dV left though, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Supercharazad on December 14, 2014, 09:28:26 am
Does anybody know where I can find a 2.5m command pod that's somewhat symmetrical? I can't bring myself to use the stock one, because the hatch is just in such an awkward place compared to the windows.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 14, 2014, 11:15:21 pm
Quote from: Supercharazad on December 14, 2014, 09:28:26 am
Does anybody know where I can find a 2.5m command pod that's somewhat symmetrical? I can't bring myself to use the stock one, because the hatch is just in such an awkward place compared to the windows.

Try stock part revamp  (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92764-25-Stock-Part-Revamp-(Redone-Plane-Parts!-Engines!-and-More!)). It changes that pod to be symmetrical, and makes everything else real purdy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 15, 2014, 12:59:51 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on December 14, 2014, 11:15:21 pm
Quote from: Supercharazad on December 14, 2014, 09:28:26 am
Does anybody know where I can find a 2.5m command pod that's somewhat symmetrical? I can't bring myself to use the stock one, because the hatch is just in such an awkward place compared to the windows.

Try stock part revamp  (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92764-25-Stock-Part-Revamp-(Redone-Plane-Parts!-Engines!-and-More!)). It changes that pod to be symmetrical, and makes everything else real purdy.
After reinstalling windows I was going to play totally vanilla, but these textures are too gorgeous to turn down. Once I find the right settings to stop my GPU from melting, I'll be set.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 15, 2014, 03:30:52 am
That's a nice thing about the revamp. Other than a few new parts (larger Oscar tanks and some others), and the three-man pod symmetry, it is basically just a reskin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 15, 2014, 06:13:29 am
First time on .25; I've finally gotten the hang of the contracts because I didn't realise you needed to stage parts when all conditions have been met, rather than merely use the part during the conditions, so I had a few missions that were completely pointless.
Unfortunately on my 10th mission or so Jebediah was eaten by a Kracken, during the mission the LV-45 and radial deouplers were successfully tested, however the main objective of reaching orbit failed by a slight margin. During descent the craft hit an invisible highland mountain at 940 meters. Seeing the terrain vanish made the pilot panic and EVA, he was safe enough to make a report which was successfully received by mission control, however his bravado got the better of him and rather than stay where he was Jeb decided to grab an invisible soil sample. May he rest in peace.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2014, 04:11:50 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 15, 2014, 06:13:29 am
First time on .25; I've finally gotten the hang of the contracts because I didn't realise you needed to stage parts when all conditions have been met, rather than merely use the part during the conditions, so I had a few missions that were completely pointless.

Sometimes you do need to stage, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 15, 2014, 06:29:56 pm
.25? Ha! .90 is out!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on December 15, 2014, 06:35:37 pm
Crazyness. Nice of them to celebrate the end of the school year.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 15, 2014, 06:55:08 pm
Yeah, it's nice that I'll have time to play it soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 15, 2014, 06:56:13 pm
It's out now for real?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 15, 2014, 06:58:00 pm
Yep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2014, 07:12:12 pm
Will wait a week or two for most common mods to update. Also working heavily this week soooo...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 15, 2014, 08:27:16 pm
So uh, anyone else having issues with the new career mode building upgrade stuff? For some reason, mine appear to be fully upgraded when I start career mode; and I can't find any settings or such to change that. Meanwhile, it seems to be telling me I need to upgrade buildings to do things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2014, 09:00:44 pm
How do you know they appear to be fully upgraded?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 15, 2014, 09:09:48 pm
I think he means they are the fancy ones we have had for a few versions now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 15, 2014, 09:20:03 pm
Yep; appearance, and right clicking on them. Also, it only appears to be bugged in the x64 version. So if you do the default one you should be fine. Which is to say, you should probably download the non-x64 version for now, until they get that all fixed up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 16, 2014, 12:23:21 am
What's the deal with the visual surveys? I'm supposed to make a crew report in a specific zone above 17km.. But I can't complete it? What's their definition of above? Do I need an airplane?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2014, 12:24:29 am
I think it might be 17km above, not above 17km...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 16, 2014, 12:38:19 am
Depends on if it's sea level or surface. I thought the original mod got that figured out...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 16, 2014, 07:44:42 am
I'm particularly interested in this feature, sounds like it will have some implications for the RemoteTech autopilot functions:

Code: [Select]
* Added new Autopilot System featuring 8 modes:
- Stability Assist (Basic SAS)
- Prograde/Retrograde Hold (Level 1 Required: Automatically orient and maintain attitude towards prograde or retrograde vectors.
- Radial In/Out, Normal/Antinormal Hold (Level 2 Required): Automatically orient and maintain attitude towards R+, R-, N and AN vectors.
- Target/Anti-Target Hold (Level 3 Required): Automatically orient and maintain attitude towards the selected target.
- Maneuver Hold (Level 3 Required): Automatically orient and maintain attitude towards the first upcoming maneuver's burn vector.
* AP modes respect the current reference frame on the navball (surface, orbit or target).
Also, this sounds pretty great:

 
Code: [Select]
Part-to-Part Resource Transfer now possible between more than 2 parts. (In/Out options will push/pull from all other selected parts evenly)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 16, 2014, 08:21:09 am
Kinda sounds like some mods are now redundant... the second feature sounds like half of the features of TAC fuel balancer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 16, 2014, 10:22:51 am
I was shocked how fast I downloaded this, the last time I grabbed an update the next day the servers were clogged. Time to restart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 16, 2014, 12:14:19 pm
I still cant get it to work... Wee...

Lastnight the download thingie on the website was broken, so I tried patching one of the five folders I have of KSP (I mod download mods to the game. Alot), and now thats broke. Lets see if the website works now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 16, 2014, 02:15:45 pm
Damn the game keeps taunting me.. I'm using an airplane to do the survey contracts now, but there are some when I'm supposed to go and get a surface sample from a specific zone.. So I land (on a really sick terrain too  8) ), but then when I go on an EVA to grab the sample, well nothing related triggers..

So I start over, thinking "maybe I'm supposed to actually enter the zone from the ground itself", I design a sh*tty rover with landing gears  ::) . Obviously I crash at some point, but really close to the waypoint too so I decide to be a man and walk straight until I get there. Now according to the map I'm at the exact coordinates of the waypoint but still nothing.. I walked for 3 in game hours  :D

Anyway I guess it's a bug or maybe the description needs more details..
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 16, 2014, 02:36:47 pm
are there not special prerequisites (upgraded kerbalnaut complex?) to taking surface samples now?

Do all of the contract conditions light up green?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 16, 2014, 03:31:10 pm
So, is this released, or still just like pre-released?  The .90 that is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 16, 2014, 03:46:42 pm
Quote from: puke on December 16, 2014, 02:36:47 pm
are there not special prerequisites (upgraded kerbalnaut complex?) to taking surface samples now?

Do all of the contract conditions light up green?
I think there are. Can't take surface samples anywhere, so that's probably a facility upgrade requirement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 16, 2014, 03:50:49 pm
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 16, 2014, 03:31:10 pm
So, is this released, or still just like pre-released?  The .90 that is.

Released.  Got it earlier today, started a new game, poked around.  Some mods are already updated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2014, 07:13:28 pm
i wanna get to modding this game so badly

but I cannot think of anything I would actually want from modding it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Fniff on December 16, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
I'm sure modding in viable pop-culture spaceships wouldn't go amiss.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2014, 07:43:43 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 16, 2014, 07:38:45 pm
That moment when you spend all of your research in getting plane parts.
Then realize you don't have any wheels at all.
*facepalms*
(http://airpigz.com/storage/2012-february/X-15-Lakebed-1961.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1330349131826)

Wheels are for quitters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2014, 08:03:33 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 16, 2014, 07:46:35 pm
That plane has at least one wheel.
If you can replace some wheels you can replace all the wheels.
*flawless logic*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2014, 08:06:06 pm
Quote from: Fniff on December 16, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
I'm sure modding in viable pop-culture spaceships wouldn't go amiss.

okay let me rephrase that

i have no idea what kind of non-3D-modeling related modding I can do
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 16, 2014, 08:11:10 pm
144 classpects for kerbals.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on December 16, 2014, 09:14:47 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 16, 2014, 08:11:10 pm
144 classpects for kerbals.

I was about to say

get putnam in here.

But you're talking to putnam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 16, 2014, 11:02:57 pm
Right, how the hell do I turn off this fucking radial symmetry in the SPH? The game decided that I am in the VAB or something, because thats how everything is acting. And its a pain in the ass when attempting to attach wings.

I want my mirror symmetry back dabm it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 16, 2014, 11:08:48 pm
The VAB and SPH are the same thing now, there should be a button to switch between radial/mirror symmetry
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 16, 2014, 11:37:35 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 16, 2014, 11:02:57 pm
Right, how the hell do I turn off this fucking radial symmetry in the SPH? The game decided that I am in the VAB or something, because thats how everything is acting. And its a pain in the ass when attempting to attach wings.

I want my mirror symmetry back dabm it!

I want to say its the R key.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 17, 2014, 12:05:25 am
The new aerodynamics seem to be working properly. It's a bit harder to steer a rocket by brute force now. Not as hard as FAR naturally, but it's noticeable. I even noticed a slight lifting body effect that I was able to use to land a bit closer to the space center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 17, 2014, 01:22:26 am
Quote from: puke on December 16, 2014, 02:36:47 pm
are there not special prerequisites (upgraded kerbalnaut complex?) to taking surface samples now?

Do all of the contract conditions light up green?

 
Oh I guess that's it.. Although, the contract conditions says : "Take an EVA report on the surface at..". Eva reports that I can do but taking surface samples, I can't you're right I need to upgrade my astronaut complex+scientific lab. The contracts conditions should be more detailed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 17, 2014, 01:38:37 am
Quote from: bQt31 on December 17, 2014, 01:22:26 am
Quote from: puke on December 16, 2014, 02:36:47 pm
are there not special prerequisites (upgraded kerbalnaut complex?) to taking surface samples now?

Do all of the contract conditions light up green?

 
Oh I guess that's it.. Although, the contract conditions says : "Take an EVA report on the surface at..". Eva reports that I can do but taking surface samples, I can't you're right I need to upgrade my astronaut complex+scientific lab. The contracts conditions should be more detailed.

EVA reports worked for me. Are you sure you're close enough? It will say "you are entering [location]" if you are in range for the mission, and the boundaries are pretty tight for EVA observations. Also, on the map the mission location is at the tip of the icon, not under the bubble. If you click on the icon you can activate a marker on the navball which will point to the location.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 17, 2014, 02:23:27 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on December 17, 2014, 01:38:37 am
EVA reports worked for me. Are you sure you're close enough? It will say "you are entering [location]" if you are in range for the mission, and the boundaries are pretty tight for EVA observations. Also, on the map the mission location is at the tip of the icon, not under the bubble. If you click on the icon you can activate a marker on the navball which will point to the location.

Weird. Maybe I wasn't close enough. When I walked to it, my guy was on the tip of the arrow of the waypoint, although I had no navball to navigate him so I used the orbital map, I guess it's not exactly the best to navigate on the ground :D
I'll try again later when I unlock the rover wheels  ;D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 17, 2014, 10:22:04 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 17, 2014, 10:10:57 pm
Any idea if you can influence the kinds of contracts you get?
If so, it should definitely be a feature
I quite like the 'survey kerbin' ones, they can be quite calming and fun; however, they have gotten rare as of late.
How do you accomplish those?  I was gonna build a plane and go around collecting survey spots...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 17, 2014, 11:59:20 pm
Also, does anyone know what earns crew exp?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 18, 2014, 12:16:37 am
Yep; there's a variety of things. Here's a chart: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/XP
Essentially, for each body, you have a variety of mission goals of sorts which give different amounts of XP. The kerbal then gets whatever the highest achieved mission goal on a body was. In general, planting a flag is the highest XP for a body (though just landing is sufficient for Minmus and the Mun, since they give the same)

Ex: Send a kerbal on a flight at kerbin, they get 1 XP. Send them again, and they still only have 1, since it isn't additive. Send them on an orbital fight, they now have 2 XP, since the orbital flights give 2 XP, that overrides and erases the 'flight' from their log and replaces it with 'orbital flight.' Send them on another flight and they still have 2 XP, since the 1 XP from a 'flight' isnt' enough to override the 'orbital flight.'
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on December 18, 2014, 12:23:50 am
How do I into upgraded buildings? I can't find a place to do that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 18, 2014, 04:45:44 am
Quote from: Caroline on December 17, 2014, 10:10:57 pm
Any idea if you can influence the kinds of contracts you get?
If so, it should definitely be a feature
I quite like the 'survey kerbin' ones, they can be quite calming and fun; however, they have gotten rare as of late.

I think you can't, but you can refuse contracts without penalty until they offer you the ones you're interested in. Also as far as I know, cancel(l?)ing a contract doesn't give any penalty either other than the loss of the fee you gained for accepting it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2014, 06:47:55 am
Quote from: Caroline on December 16, 2014, 07:38:45 pm
That moment when you spend all of your research in getting plane parts.
Then realize you don't have any wheels at all.
*facepalms*
I've built planes that use launch clamps, decouplers and parachutes to take off/land before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 18, 2014, 07:17:53 am
Quote from: bQt31 on December 18, 2014, 04:45:44 am
you can refuse contracts without penalty until they offer you the ones you're interested in. Also as far as I know, cancel(l?)ing a contract doesn't give any penalty either other than the loss of the fee you gained for accepting it.

One of the dev-talks described having relationships with the contract agents, so the more work you did for one company the more lucrative jobs they might offer -- and the more you declined or failed jobs for another company the more reluctant they would be to do busniess with you and the worse contracts they would offer.

I don't know if this became a feature or not -- it certainly isn't obvious if it is in there, would have to be happening behind the scenes.  But at the time, they were talking like it was something that was already done.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 18, 2014, 07:40:38 am
I absolutely detest any plane related missions ...

The ones I like the most are "set up a satellite in orbit" ones. I also don't like landing ... >.<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: bQt31 on December 18, 2014, 07:44:20 am
I love the "test *part* while splash down", "test *part* from the ground" and "send scientific data from around *celestial body where I have an orbital station*"  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 18, 2014, 07:52:44 am
The initial "Explore X" missions are my favs. Always nice to go somewhere the first time in a playthrough.

Hey, could someone do me a solid and PM me if/when Interstellar updates to the new version? It's gotten to the point I can't imagine KSP without it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 18, 2014, 07:53:36 am
I think the Explore X missions are basically KSP's "story" or main questline, seeing that you can't fail them (no deadline),they always appear, and they're usually important milestones like Visit Ike or Explore Mun.

I still dislike them because you have to land...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 08:10:21 am
I dislike the ones that require doing a certain speed at a certain altitude. Though when I stop using solid rocket boosters I should have more luck with them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 18, 2014, 08:12:48 am
Quote from: BFEL on December 18, 2014, 07:52:44 am
The initial "Explore X" missions are my favs. Always nice to go somewhere the first time in a playthrough.

Hey, could someone do me a solid and PM me if/when Interstellar updates to the new version? It's gotten to the point I can't imagine KSP without it :P

Yeah, this.  They are big missions with multiple goals that you have to reach for.  I made a new self-imposed rule my last .25 game, that I would take each Explore X and attempt it immediately with whatever technology I had at the time.  This worked out pretty well, and was a good counter to my natural tendency to harvest cheap science before starting big missions.

I don't know how well this handicap will work in .9... I'm going to give it a try because it makes those Explore missions so much more fun, but I might need to bend my rules a bit to be able to upgrade facilities some before launching missions?

I guess that once you can leave the Kerbin system you can get anywhere... but returning Kerbals from large gravity wells with atmospheres... this is the tricky bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2014, 08:17:55 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 08:10:21 am
I dislike the ones that require doing a certain speed at a certain altitude. Though when I stop using solid rocket boosters I should have more luck with them.
Haha, no.

Those missions are often just borderline impossible to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 18, 2014, 08:24:36 am
I love those missions. In my last playthrough, they were all I would take, once I had planes.

They're impossible with rockets, I agree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 18, 2014, 08:33:50 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 18, 2014, 08:17:55 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 08:10:21 am
I dislike the ones that require doing a certain speed at a certain altitude. Though when I stop using solid rocket boosters I should have more luck with them.
Haha, no.

Those missions are often just borderline impossible to do.

Only when you try to stack two or three of them at once.  I can usually hit any given speed or altitude on my second or third try by tweaking the fuel level or thrust percentage of the SRBs.

Oh, did you mean borderline impossible on the first try without reverting?  That sounds like a hard way to play.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 18, 2014, 09:02:14 am
I'm still confused that people try to do those with rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 18, 2014, 09:06:47 am
faster with rockets.  Even if it takes a revert or two.

I don't have the patience for long plane flights, and often don't unlock the various aerodynamic parts and air-breathing engines until I am pretty far in the other science branches.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 18, 2014, 10:07:30 am
Quote from: Caroline on December 18, 2014, 08:56:57 am
Quote from: puke on December 18, 2014, 08:33:50 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 18, 2014, 08:17:55 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 08:10:21 am
I dislike the ones that require doing a certain speed at a certain altitude. Though when I stop using solid rocket boosters I should have more luck with them.
Haha, no.

Those missions are often just borderline impossible to do.
Only when you try to stack two or three of them at once.  I can usually hit any given speed or altitude on my second or third try by tweaking the fuel level or thrust percentage of the SRBs.

Oh, did you mean borderline impossible on the first try without reverting?  That sounds like a hard way to play.
I play hardmode, and they're still quite easy.
I just put a small rocket booster on the bottom plus a half tank with LV-30 or LV-45 engines and it works pretty well.
I usually had missions that had only the objective of testing a part or two, with ONLY liquid rockets. But now I only spam orbital satellite missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 11:23:16 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 18, 2014, 10:07:30 am
Quote from: Caroline on December 18, 2014, 08:56:57 am
Quote from: puke on December 18, 2014, 08:33:50 am
Quote from: miauw62 on December 18, 2014, 08:17:55 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 18, 2014, 08:10:21 am
I dislike the ones that require doing a certain speed at a certain altitude. Though when I stop using solid rocket boosters I should have more luck with them.
Haha, no.

Those missions are often just borderline impossible to do.
Only when you try to stack two or three of them at once.  I can usually hit any given speed or altitude on my second or third try by tweaking the fuel level or thrust percentage of the SRBs.

Oh, did you mean borderline impossible on the first try without reverting?  That sounds like a hard way to play.
I play hardmode, and they're still quite easy.
I just put a small rocket booster on the bottom plus a half tank with LV-30 or LV-45 engines and it works pretty well.
I usually had missions that had only the objective of testing a part or two, with ONLY liquid rockets. But now I only spam orbital satellite missions.
Well I just started and don't have plane parts, It makes sense I would want to test my parachutes and whatever :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 18, 2014, 02:43:25 pm
Is it even POSSIBLE to reach orbit with unupgraded Launchpad? That weight limit is brutal...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 18, 2014, 02:52:25 pm
From what little I remember of actually playing the game, I think I managed to orbit on my second real launch, with three real fuel tanks and a single engine...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 18, 2014, 03:29:36 pm
Working on a aircraft designed to go around the world, refueling as it goes via atmos scoop and drill, keep a kerbal alive indefinitely even with the thunder life support thing (downloaded because of  OKS), and even land on water. Nearly done with it when crash. weee...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 12:16:15 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 18, 2014, 02:52:25 pm
From what little I remember of actually playing the game, I think I managed to orbit on my second real launch, with three real fuel tanks and a single engine...
You should be able to reach orbit with a lv-45 and as many fuel tanks as you can fit while still allowing it to lift off. You may require splitting it down to 2 stages. Efficient gravity turning is essemntial however.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 19, 2014, 12:21:02 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 12:16:15 am
essemntial

sorry I couldn't help but google this typo

I mean it's not an unreasonable typo at all (those letters are right nexst to each othjer! Typos expt in that sentence and this for iromic purposes), but the vast majority of the instances of that typo on the internet are some "healing fragrance" hooey, which I find hilarious
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 19, 2014, 01:13:03 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 19, 2014, 12:21:02 am
othjer
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 01:16:30 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 19, 2014, 12:21:02 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 12:16:15 am
essemntial

sorry I couldn't help but google this typo

I mean it's not an unreasonable typo at all (those letters are right nexst to each othjer! Typos expt in that sentence and this for iromic purposes), but the vast majority of the instances of that typo on the internet are some "healing fragrance" hooey, which I find hilarious
No it's a legitimate typo, I already fixed 2 others in that sentence, and it had like, more than one letter wrong so I just thought I would roll with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 01:17:10 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 19, 2014, 01:13:03 am
Quote from: Putnam on December 19, 2014, 12:21:02 am
othjer
\He was being iromorc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 19, 2014, 02:41:57 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 12:16:15 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 18, 2014, 02:52:25 pm
From what little I remember of actually playing the game, I think I managed to orbit on my second real launch, with three real fuel tanks and a single engine...
You should be able to reach orbit with a lv-45 and as many fuel tanks as you can fit while still allowing it to lift off. You may require splitting it down to 2 stages. Efficient gravity turning is essemntial however.
I do not have the essemntial efficiemcy then.
Usually I just use the super SRBs from the NASA update to get lighter stuff to orbit, and the OTHER stuff from the NASA pack to get anything heavier there...
NASA is Magic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 19, 2014, 04:34:18 am
You should be able to get there on your first flight with stsrting parts.

Manley has an old video of a hot-staged rocket going to mun or minmus on launch 1.  You can easily hit orbit with less than 30 parts (maybe less than 10) and also without staging.  Just watch some YouTube toutorials.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 19, 2014, 08:37:53 am
It's not the part limit that was getting me, it was the WEIGHT limit. Couldn't carry enough fuel to do just about anything.

I can orbit fine with it upgraded to lvl 2, but having to ration things that hard was just untenable.


Oh, I almost forgot about the idea I had!

I'm thinking of starting up "Drunken Orbits" a succession career game using the drunk fortress "first drunk first served" rules and generally resulting in more exploded buildings then any other game since the feature hit.

Anyone up for it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 08:49:48 am
Quote from: puke on December 19, 2014, 04:34:18 am
You should be able to get there on your first flight with stsrting parts.

Manley has an old video of a hot-staged rocket going to mun or minmus on launch 1.  You can easily hit orbit with less than 30 parts (maybe less than 10) and also without staging.  Just watch some YouTube toutorials.
I just cobbled together a stack of the tanks you start with and a lv 30, and reached orbit easily.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 19, 2014, 10:20:13 am
Quote from: BFEL on December 19, 2014, 08:37:53 am
I'm thinking of starting up "Drunken Orbits" a succession career game using the drunk fortress "first drunk first served" rules and generally resulting in more exploded buildings then any other game since the feature hit.

Anyone up for it?
And for those of us unfamiliar...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on December 19, 2014, 11:04:20 am
Quote from: Girlinhat on December 19, 2014, 10:20:13 am
Quote from: BFEL on December 19, 2014, 08:37:53 am
I'm thinking of starting up "Drunken Orbits" a succession career game using the drunk fortress "first drunk first served" rules and generally resulting in more exploded buildings then any other game since the feature hit.

Anyone up for it?
And for those of us unfamiliar...?
You get drunk and play DF. You also record how many drinks you took. That's the premise of Drunk Fortress. Link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=116045.0).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 19, 2014, 11:13:13 am
Its been a few years, but I used to get into s little trouble posting here after having too many drinks.  That probably dates back to the old forums, though.

I have never youtubed, but this seems like something that would be improved by it.  Or whatever Twitch is.  I hear there is this thing now called Twitch...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 19, 2014, 11:45:24 am
Quote from: puke on December 19, 2014, 11:13:13 am
Or whatever Twitch is.
The short version?  It's Youtube, but it's live.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 19, 2014, 01:02:17 pm
https://twitter.com/Maxmaps/status/545828348866613248
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 19, 2014, 02:04:21 pm
What what what?  I thought resources were on the "no, never, not doing it as an official feature" list?

Or maybe it means something different than I am thinking?  Maybe they mean Funds and Reputation as a resource, rather than something like Kethane.

There can't be too many changes if the game is actually "feature complete".  Especially not Kethane style resources.  Honestly, anything on the wiki page under "upcoming features" which is not already highlighted in yellow is probably out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 19, 2014, 02:28:12 pm
Resources where always on the "someday" list. They almost added them (and where working heavily on them) about the NASA update, but then bumped them onto the "after release" list.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 19, 2014, 07:57:46 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 19, 2014, 02:28:12 pm
Resources where always on the "someday" list. They almost added them (and where working heavily on them) about the NASA update, but then bumped them onto the "after release" list.
Perhaps they mean oxygen and the like?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 19, 2014, 08:28:37 pm
What? Im talking about mining up ore/sucking up water/sucking in atmo and getting fuel, materials for building, etc. Are you talking about life support?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 20, 2014, 12:02:07 am
What Aseaheru is talking about is what Squad means by "resources".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on December 20, 2014, 01:37:54 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 19, 2014, 08:28:37 pm
What? Im talking about mining up ore/sucking up water/sucking in atmo and getting fuel, materials for building, etc. Are you talking about life support?
You sure? i tought it was about optimisation to help computer *resource* :) (Joke)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 20, 2014, 05:10:12 am
I thought they were working on increasing the snack resource capacity of the pods and cans.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2014, 06:51:54 am
They currently refer to Fuel, Oxidizer, and Electricity and things like this as "Resources" so I suspect it may be some refinement of the existing system.  Maybe to do with how it flows through parts, and what the routing systems and plumbing work like.

Unless they were totally lying about 0.90 being "Feature Complete" I really would really not expect any major new features.

Also, just discovered something new:

If you don't launch into space on your first flight, you can complete subsequent "Altitude Record" contracts after the 5K level.  I didn't know this low-hanging fruit was available, and it sure is more fun than mining KSC for science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 20, 2014, 08:23:48 am
They didn't say .90 was FEATURE complete. They called it SCOPE complete. There is a difference. They're still adding features, even major ones, but they aren't going to say...add a war against aliens after all the "explore X" missions.

Basically they said "this is how BIG the game is going to be" instead of "this is all the things you're going to DO in the game"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2014, 09:39:54 am
Scope complete isnt a thing in software development.  I think they have some actual professional software developers on their staff now, but still:  Please entertain me with your idea of what the distinction between "feature complete" and "scope complete" would be. 

Use specific examples, and hand gestures if necessary.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2014, 10:30:12 am
Sorry about that.  Here, let me try again with less snark:

English isn't their first language.  Software Development isn't their first career.  When they said Scope, they were clearly trying to describe a status that is analogous to "Feature Complete".  They may add "Content" but they will probably not be adding major "Features".

Why do I interpret it this way?  Well, here:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP and here: http://steamcommunity.com/games/220200/announcements/detail/134310928147086385

They say "Scope" but what does that mean and how do they define it?  Check it out:

Quote
This then is the version that makes the game ‘scope complete’: every major feature that the game was designed to incorporate now exists

Quote
KSP now has all the features we considered vital to be in the game that we designed so many years ago. It doesn’t mean the game has everything we want it to have, it means everything we considered necessary for it to be Kerbal Space Program exists, even if only in a minimal form.

Quote
Scope completion means that every big system that the game needed is there

Quote
No more groundwork, no more laying down infrastructure. We’ve finished building the kitchen, it’s time for us to start cooking.

I'm not taking this stuff out of context, this is exactly what they are saying.  The links are right there, they don't go on in the next sentence to say "oh, and we might still add major features".

What they /ARE/ talking about adding, is "Content".  A new MK3 cockpit interior isnt a feature, it is content.  The features to support it are already there, its just some extra meshes and textures and shit.  Adding another Gas planet or two isnt a feature, it's content.  Tweaking the aerodynamics is fiddling with existing code.  Even adding additional Kerbal skills is mainly just content development.

A resource extraction would be a major feature.  It would require, to use their words, laying additional groundwork.

Now, they've gone against what they've said and what they've roadmapped before, so this isn't 100%, but I feel like it is pretty likely.

And what it means for multiplayer?  How committed are they, do they consider it to require extra groundwork?  Totally up in the air.  Again, it is a great program, they have great community out reach, but they're kind of making it up as they go.

And on resources?  They've already clarified that when they say "Resources" they don't mean "Mining" so I really wouldn't hold my breath:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61997-Article-KerbalKon-Announcements?p=844430#post844430
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 20, 2014, 10:39:23 am
They also said that mining was shelved and that they would probally do it. In the final link you posted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 20, 2014, 11:02:48 am
Well, no harm in being optimistic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 20, 2014, 11:38:07 am
That resource quote is from 2013. They've added and lost staff since then. Maxmaps has said otherwise in the past couple months in live streams. Mining seems to still be a thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on December 21, 2014, 02:33:39 am
And I'm sure I remember reading somewhere they said multiplayer is going to be "post 1.0".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 21, 2014, 02:42:55 am
Quote from: puke on December 20, 2014, 10:30:12 am
Sorry about that.  Here, let me try again with less snark:

English isn't their first language.  Software Development isn't their first career.  When they said Scope, they were clearly trying to describe a status that is analogous to "Feature Complete".  They may add "Content" but they will probably not be adding major "Features".

Why do I interpret it this way?  Well, here:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP and here: http://steamcommunity.com/games/220200/announcements/detail/134310928147086385

They say "Scope" but what does that mean and how do they define it?  Check it out:

Quote
This then is the version that makes the game ‘scope complete’: every major feature that the game was designed to incorporate now exists

Quote
KSP now has all the features we considered vital to be in the game that we designed so many years ago. It doesn’t mean the game has everything we want it to have, it means everything we considered necessary for it to be Kerbal Space Program exists, even if only in a minimal form.

Quote
Scope completion means that every big system that the game needed is there

Quote
No more groundwork, no more laying down infrastructure. We’ve finished building the kitchen, it’s time for us to start cooking.

I'm not taking this stuff out of context, this is exactly what they are saying.  The links are right there, they don't go on in the next sentence to say "oh, and we might still add major features".

What they /ARE/ talking about adding, is "Content".  A new MK3 cockpit interior isnt a feature, it is content.  The features to support it are already there, its just some extra meshes and textures and shit.  Adding another Gas planet or two isnt a feature, it's content.  Tweaking the aerodynamics is fiddling with existing code.  Even adding additional Kerbal skills is mainly just content development.

Quote
This then is the version that makes the game ‘scope complete’: every major feature that the game was designed to incorporate now exists

Quote
KSP now has all the features we considered vital to be in the game that we designed so many years ago. It doesn’t mean the game has everything we want it to have, it means everything we considered necessary for it to be Kerbal Space Program exists, even if only in a minimal form.

Quote
Scope completion means that every big system that the game needed is there

Notice the fact that every single one of those quotes is in past-tense and that the second one explicitly says that they're not feature-complete yet (unless "it doesn't mean the game has everything we want it to have" means something different than the obvious)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on December 21, 2014, 09:18:50 am
I think it's reaching to assume they intend on implementing more features, based on the presence of past tense while referring to their planning, particularly when the quotes have grammatical errors in them.

Quote
It doesn’t mean the game has everything we want it to have, it means everything we considered necessary for it to be Kerbal Space Program exists

How long has KSP been in development, now?

ed: I guess that isn't really grammatically incorrect.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 21, 2014, 07:20:04 pm
It's not really reaching when the phrase "so many years ago" is used.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 21, 2014, 10:46:33 pm
Quote
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Stage Recovery
Kerbal Engineer
Stock Revamp
Collision FX
NEAR
Planetshine
Environmental Visual Enhancments
Procedural Fairings
RealChute
SCAN Sat
Active Texture Management
Hyperedit
Final Frontier
Are there any other mods that are good? I don't want RemoteTech or Deadly Reentry, and I have NEAR instead of FAR because I'm a casual :P

Say, utility mods, or ones that overhaul part of KSP's mechanics...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 22, 2014, 12:49:27 am
On the difference between "Scope" complete and "Feature" complete states of the game - English isn't my first language either, but somehow I understood perfectly well what it meant.

A game's "scope" is its "breadth" and "length" - it's almost literally what "scope" means. It's a general measure of how far a game is intended to stretch, not explicitly defined by either content or features, but rather a mindset of the developers. "Scope completion" is their way of saying "we've made the game as wide and long as we wanted it to". The difference from "feature completion" is that they're not stopping adding features and content for "depth". They won't add interstellar flight, won't overhaul the science system (probably), definitely won't add alien invaders, but they can add things like an overhauled flight physics model and an ISRU system because it fits their idea of "more and better things to do within the scope we've defined".

Their game is still a long ways off from a proper, "final" release, and from now till then, until they have to go "Feature complete" and make a few final rounds of bug-squashing, they will continue to add features.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 22, 2014, 12:57:27 am
Also, they confirmed multiplayer explicitly awhile ago.

It's not in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on December 22, 2014, 07:51:49 am
You guys remind me of theologians trying to interpret the Bible and burn those that don't agree with them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 22, 2014, 08:13:06 am
Quote from: Sheb on December 22, 2014, 07:51:49 am
You guys remind me of theologians trying to interpret the Bible and burn those that don't agree with them.
Praise Bob, as he of all kerbals is the choosen one. All Jebites shall burn in eternal booster related unforseen overheat scenarios. Bill's ok though, he throws bitching parties.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 22, 2014, 10:55:12 am
Does anybody have a clue what people mean by update the firespitter mod when the actual mod itself on Spaceport isn't updated and I haven't found any github thing? People in the thread for the B9 Aerospace mod keep talking like updating it (and I mean changing whatever it is that needs to be changed to update it) is an incredibly simple thing, but I'm like 'HOW????" (my thought proccess because I didn't actually post) because of the simple fact that I don't know how.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 22, 2014, 02:56:28 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 21, 2014, 10:46:33 pm
Quote
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Stage Recovery
Kerbal Engineer
Stock Revamp
Collision FX
NEAR
Planetshine
Environmental Visual Enhancments
Procedural Fairings
RealChute
SCAN Sat
Active Texture Management
Hyperedit
Final Frontier
Are there any other mods that are good? I don't want RemoteTech or Deadly Reentry, and I have NEAR instead of FAR because I'm a casual :P

Say, utility mods, or ones that overhaul part of KSP's mechanics...?

I'd say

diazo landing height < make height true terrain height and not altitude in surface mode
kerbal aircraft expansion < I get the heavy landing gear from here
service compartment tubes < to attach stuff inside instead of dangling it out
improved chase camera < say it all
transfer window planner < if you don't use mechjeb, you can get the porkchop graph in game like these http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/
science alert < knocks you out of warp when science available, never miss that eva science ever!


I use more but those are the one that best fit with the 'universal' ksp experience.


Quote from: smjjames on December 22, 2014, 10:55:12 am
Does anybody have a clue what people mean by update the firespitter mod when the actual mod itself on Spaceport isn't updated and I haven't found any github thing? People in the thread for the B9 Aerospace mod keep talking like updating it (and I mean changing whatever it is that needs to be changed to update it) is an incredibly simple thing, but I'm like 'HOW????" (my thought proccess because I didn't actually post) because of the simple fact that I don't know how.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24551-Firespitter-propeller-plane-and-helicopter-parts-v6-3-5-%28Sep-1st%29-for-KSP-0-24-2?p=1603900&viewfull=1#post1603900 experimental dll
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 22, 2014, 04:47:38 pm
Firespitter has its own website and the download for the dll is usually the most current version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 22, 2014, 04:49:15 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 22, 2014, 02:56:28 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 21, 2014, 10:46:33 pm
Quote
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Stage Recovery
Kerbal Engineer
Stock Revamp
Collision FX
NEAR
Planetshine
Environmental Visual Enhancments
Procedural Fairings
RealChute
SCAN Sat
Active Texture Management
Hyperedit
Final Frontier
Are there any other mods that are good? I don't want RemoteTech or Deadly Reentry, and I have NEAR instead of FAR because I'm a casual :P

Say, utility mods, or ones that overhaul part of KSP's mechanics...?

I'd say

diazo landing height < make height true terrain height and not altitude in surface mode
kerbal aircraft expansion < I get the heavy landing gear from here
service compartment tubes < to attach stuff inside instead of dangling it out
improved chase camera < say it all
transfer window planner < if you don't use mechjeb, you can get the porkchop graph in game like these http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/
science alert < knocks you out of warp when science available, never miss that eva science ever!


I use more but those are the one that best fit with the 'universal' ksp experience.


Quote from: smjjames on December 22, 2014, 10:55:12 am
Does anybody have a clue what people mean by update the firespitter mod when the actual mod itself on Spaceport isn't updated and I haven't found any github thing? People in the thread for the B9 Aerospace mod keep talking like updating it (and I mean changing whatever it is that needs to be changed to update it) is an incredibly simple thing, but I'm like 'HOW????" (my thought proccess because I didn't actually post) because of the simple fact that I don't know how.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24551-Firespitter-propeller-plane-and-helicopter-parts-v6-3-5-%28Sep-1st%29-for-KSP-0-24-2?p=1603900&viewfull=1#post1603900 experimental dll
Quote Pyramid Power!

Coherent Contracts is also nice.
Enhanced NavBall is still relevant, especially with NavBall Docking Alignment Indicator.
RCS BuildAid is indispensable.
And if you're into mining, anything Regolith based.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: McDonald on December 22, 2014, 04:52:08 pm
In case someone hasn't seen this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszJRsGzo9A)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 22, 2014, 05:06:16 pm
Why did you show this to us?

A better question is why the ^!@% did I watch half of it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 22, 2014, 05:11:42 pm
What kind of scrubs do you take us for? Of course we've seen it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 22, 2014, 11:01:01 pm
Quote
diazo landing height < make height true terrain height and not altitude in surface mode
kerbal aircraft expansion < I get the heavy landing gear from here
service compartment tubes < to attach stuff inside instead of dangling it out
improved chase camera < say it all
transfer window planner < if you don't use mechjeb, you can get the porkchop graph in game like these http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/
science alert < knocks you out of warp when science available, never miss that eva science ever!
Coherent Contracts is also nice.
Enhanced NavBall is still relevant, especially with NavBall Docking Alignment Indicator.
RCS BuildAid is indispensable.
And if you're into mining, anything Regolith based.

Hmm. I don't need the first one because I have Kerbal Engineer, and I don't do aircraft, so no need for ICC and KAC.

SCT looks interesting! Only downside is it doesn't fit well with the Stock Revamp parts, different art style. I might get it.

Science Alert is also unneeded because I have like 7000 science @_@ Coherent Contracts is a yes, I always wondered why my brain hurt while reading the contracts.

I'll try out the enhanced navball and the docking alignment indicator. What exactly does the Indicator's red marker do? If you line your ship up with the red marker you can just use translation tools?

I'm not sure what mods use Regolith, is there a list somewhere?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: milo christiansen on December 23, 2014, 03:45:37 am
One little thing that is horribly broken in the current KSP is the new policies.

With a 15% commitment to the money-to-science policy I unlocked every item in the tech tree before the end of day 4, without ever leaving kerbin orbit.

Mind you I didn't BUY everything, I just unlocked it, but a little more (1-2 more days) science grinding and I can buy the 100% science to money policy and money grind for a few days to purchase all the parts and end up using final tier parts for my first mun mission (with that save, I have been there in earlier versions).

The secret is to pick you contracts for easy completion, anything that is "while landed at kerbin" is basically a gimme, and "retrieve orbital science" is just as good once you launch a simple satellite. If there are none of those varieties of contract then pick easy atmospheric tests, the trick there is finding speed/altitude combinations that are easy to hit, with luck and planning it is possible to complete 2-3 such tests with a single launch. Use unkerbled test launchers, it really makes things easy if the rocket is minimal disposable model.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 23, 2014, 05:02:21 am
Quote from: McDonald on December 22, 2014, 04:52:08 pm
In case someone hasn't seen this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszJRsGzo9A)
Another MLG trailer of KSP. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8B066ZeCPA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 23, 2014, 05:07:01 am
Quote from: milo christiansen on December 23, 2014, 03:45:37 am
One little thing that is horribly broken in the current KSP is the new policies.

With a 15% commitment to the money-to-science policy I unlocked every item in the tech tree before the end of day 4, without ever leaving kerbin orbit.

Mind you I didn't BUY everything, I just unlocked it, but a little more (1-2 more days) science grinding and I can buy the 100% science to money policy and money grind for a few days to purchase all the parts and end up using final tier parts for my first mun mission (with that save, I have been there in earlier versions).

The secret is to pick you contracts for easy completion, anything that is "while landed at kerbin" is basically a gimme, and "retrieve orbital science" is just as good once you launch a simple satellite. If there are none of those varieties of contract then pick easy atmospheric tests, the trick there is finding speed/altitude combinations that are easy to hit, with luck and planning it is possible to complete 2-3 such tests with a single launch. Use unkerbled test launchers, it really makes things easy if the rocket is minimal disposable model.

How did you get the money to upgrade all three stages of the R&D building?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 23, 2014, 05:24:34 am
Step 1: Convert money into science, at the best rate you can, and perform missions.
Step 2: When you've unlocked everything, or just amassed huge science, swap to Science to Money.
Step 3: You now have a lot of tech and can use better engines more cheaply to make money very quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 23, 2014, 05:57:13 am
Are we talking about the same game? @_@

You need 3180k kerbucks to upgrade the R&D center to unlock everything. And missions generally give 90k (for satellites in the Kerbin system) to maybe 250k for other planets. So much grinding...

I have 9000ish science but not 3180k, so I've only unlocked the 500 and under techs, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 23, 2014, 06:02:24 am
It's definitely broken, if you swap reputation to money you get a mere sneeze of cash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 09:16:18 am
Anybody got any tips for doing the perform visual surveys of kerbin? Especially the EVAs and soil samples? I'm using NEAR and am having problems getting close to the sites, however, I have figured out a way to compensate for the difference in orbital prediction (using MechJebs landing autopilot) and I'm going to try to stick some RCS onto the lander to get it more precise. However, the main thing I need help with is the soil samples and EVAs because once landed, I can't see the navball and there aren't any waypoint markers for the sites.

Also, how do I cram a rover into one of those containers that are in KAS (kerbal attachment system) mod?

Edit: Using RCS did the trick of getting me near the target location, but I still need help with the surface sample part and EVA because I can't see where the spot is while on EVA and it doesn't tell me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 23, 2014, 10:58:44 am
Quote from: Sheb on December 22, 2014, 07:51:49 am
You guys remind me of theologians trying to interpret the Bible and burn those that don't agree with them.
Just now saw the response to my post and this is exactly what I thought :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Bumpy runway why :I
Seriously it can't be too difficult to pat down a flat dirt road. The Romans managed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 23, 2014, 01:10:49 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Bumpy runway why :I
Seriously it can't be too difficult to pat down a flat dirt road. The Romans managed it.
Roman roads wherent dirt, they where stone...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 01:38:48 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on December 23, 2014, 01:10:49 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Bumpy runway why :I
Seriously it can't be too difficult to pat down a flat dirt road. The Romans managed it.
Roman roads wherent dirt, they where stone...
They were made of various layers of compacted dirt, gravel/pebbles, that kind of thing. Then paved. But if they'd missed... most of the steps you'd have gotten a dirt road that is significantly smoother than KSC's starting runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 23, 2014, 01:42:20 pm
Top layer is stone, which is what I was talking about.

As for dirt roads/runways, they get bumpy shockingly easily. The thing that is normally done to let non rough-surface capable craft to be able to use it is add metal grill/grate things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 02:32:49 pm
Spoiler: Bleeding shoddy Kerbal workmanship... (ignore the image compression. Accidentally put quality really low but didn't notice in the preview) (click to show/hide)
It's not even like anything exploded. The cockpit just kind of... fell off. Quite a while after touchdown too, I was just rolling along and braking when POP off comes the entire plane.

Oh and also:
(http://i.imgur.com/35oyOFx.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rez on December 23, 2014, 02:46:34 pm
Is there anyone making modpacks or is using mods TES-style painful?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 23, 2014, 03:42:12 pm
TES?

And as far as I know, there are a few modpacks, but with mods updating at different rates its better to just do it by yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 23, 2014, 03:42:32 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 22, 2014, 11:01:01 pm
I'll try out the enhanced navball and the docking alignment indicator. What exactly does the Indicator's red marker do? If you line your ship up with the red marker you can just use translation tools?

I'm not sure what mods use Regolith, is there a list somewhere?

The red marker is the location and orientation of the targeted docking node. Super useful in conjunction with the default markers on the navball. (Basically, point at the marker, move prograde to the marker, orient the top of the marker to the top of your navball, and dock perfectly every time.)
Karbonite (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89401-0-90-Karbonite-Mineable-Burnable-and-Community-Driven-0-5-0-2014-12-16) is the biggest mod using Regolith right now, but there is also ART (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91790) for asteroid mining, a version of extraplanetary launchpads (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89774), and others.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on December 23, 2014, 06:51:12 pm
Most containers you can right click in editor and edit contents.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 23, 2014, 07:17:41 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.

You can't unless you also use Part Welder and even then I'm not sure it will work. KAS only deals in individual parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PrivateNomad on December 23, 2014, 08:27:15 pm
So, I made a spaceshuttle that surprisingly worked on the first test. Managed to get it into lunar orbit with no refuels.
Includes a detachable engine if I ever want to go nuclear :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2014, 11:07:49 am
Quote from: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Bumpy runway why :I
Seriously it can't be too difficult to pat down a flat dirt road. The Romans managed it.

Romans invented engineering

(http://www.historyonthenet.com/files/fs/romans/images/roaddiagram.gif)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 24, 2014, 11:35:29 am
Built a strange VTOL base. (http://imgur.com/a/TG1dA)

I intended for it to use the swiveling engines to land, but it turned out that the abdominal tank had enough fuel to land it upright and then tip over on its legs. It has capacity for 6 kerbals, and was designed to fulfil the station on Mun/Minmus contracts.

This design has enough fuel to return to Kerbin from Minmus! I used the VTOL engines to get into orbit, fairly cool but impractical xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 24, 2014, 11:43:26 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2014, 11:07:49 am
Quote from: Graknorke on December 23, 2014, 11:58:53 am
Bumpy runway why :I
Seriously it can't be too difficult to pat down a flat dirt road. The Romans managed it.

Romans invented engineering

(http://www.historyonthenet.com/files/fs/romans/images/roaddiagram.gif)
I saw a similar design being used in Afghanistan recently.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 23, 2014, 07:17:41 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.

You can't unless you also use Part Welder and even then I'm not sure it will work. KAS only deals in individual parts.

What would the point of the containers be then? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on December 24, 2014, 01:25:27 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 23, 2014, 07:17:41 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.

You can't unless you also use Part Welder and even then I'm not sure it will work. KAS only deals in individual parts.

Containers have a symmetrical center of mass no matter what you put into it. A rover might not.
What would the point of the containers be then? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on December 24, 2014, 01:36:22 pm
Quote from: Rez on December 23, 2014, 02:46:34 pm
Is there anyone making modpacks or is using mods TES-style painful?
From what I recall, modpacks are more or less disallowed by design to avoid minecraft style modpack drama. However, any decent mod is really easy to put in; just download it, drag over the stuff in game data, and it just works (and generally without breaking saves so long as you aren't overwriting any duplicate mods or such). The tricky part is figuring out which ones you like; but since they generally don't break saves when adding new stuff, you can always add some, try them out, then come back later to add more. And even if you end up not liking a mod, they tend to be fairly safe to remove (in that it automatically deletes any craft with unavailable parts, instead of crashing or otherwise dying a horrible death like Minecraft would).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 04:55:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 24, 2014, 01:25:27 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 23, 2014, 07:17:41 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.

You can't unless you also use Part Welder and even then I'm not sure it will work. KAS only deals in individual parts.

Containers have a symmetrical center of mass no matter what you put into it. A rover might not.
What would the point of the containers be then? :P

I mean what would the point be if you can't put the structural parts in. NASA packed the moon rover into a box the size of a suitcase (well ok, a suitcase may be exaggeration, but they did pack it into a container) and I would also like to be able to easily get a rover onto another planet or moon as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TwilightWalker on December 24, 2014, 05:38:10 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 04:55:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 24, 2014, 01:25:27 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on December 23, 2014, 07:17:41 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 23, 2014, 05:34:27 pm
Can anybody help with the questions that I have a bit earlier?

I'm wondering in particular how to cram a rover into one of those containers in KAS without catalogueing each piece.

You can't unless you also use Part Welder and even then I'm not sure it will work. KAS only deals in individual parts.

Containers have a symmetrical center of mass no matter what you put into it. A rover might not.
What would the point of the containers be then? :P

I mean what would the point be if you can't put the structural parts in. NASA packed the moon rover into a box the size of a suitcase (well ok, a suitcase may be exaggeration, but they did pack it into a container) and I would also like to be able to easily get a rover onto another planet or moon as well.

Perhaps Hangars (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88933-0-25-0-Hangar-v1-3-0) are what you're looking for? Otherwise, yeah, you're going to need to put the rover into the KAS storage units piece by piece.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 24, 2014, 08:48:13 pm
Ooh yeah, that sounds perfect actually, thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on December 25, 2014, 01:04:57 pm
They were already confirmed for after 0.90 a while back, but here's a twitter statement saying that deep space refueling (resources) and aerodynamic overhaul are in the next version. (https://twitter.com/KerbalSpaceP/status/548116042086502400)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 26, 2014, 08:52:16 am
I've screwed up the landing procedures and now my unmanned Munar lander is in horisontal position:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is there any way to get it back to orbit without crashing it into terrain or having to launch a manned recovery mission? I don't want to lose the science or replay the landing again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on December 26, 2014, 08:58:15 am
If you have RCS, try using that and your reaction wheels to right it. Maybe folding and unfolding the legs could help too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 26, 2014, 09:06:07 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on December 26, 2014, 08:58:15 am
If you have RCS, try using that and your reaction wheels to right it. Maybe folding and unfolding the legs could help too.
That helped me, thank you.

EDIT: accidentially reverted to earlier autosave, but I managed to land the craft properly without tipping it over and with a bit more fuel remaining.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PrivateNomad on December 26, 2014, 09:29:47 am
Played career mode for the first time.
SHITS HARD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on December 26, 2014, 11:47:36 am
Now play hard mode.

Yolo

Or rather

Ykolo
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on December 26, 2014, 06:22:23 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 26, 2014, 12:07:53 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 26, 2014, 11:47:36 am
Now play hard mode.

Yolo

Or rather

Ykolo
Hardmode is best mode.
Oh god where is my funding, Jeb's dead, the Kraken killed him, why, shit, oh shit, no reverts, Success! Damn I'm still brokethough :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: smjjames on December 26, 2014, 11:35:46 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 26, 2014, 08:52:16 am
I've screwed up the landing procedures and now my unmanned Munar lander is in horisontal position:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is there any way to get it back to orbit without crashing it into terrain or having to launch a manned recovery mission? I don't want to lose the science or replay the landing again.

I had that happen to a lander that was rather tall, got it back up with a combination of SAS, RCS, and flipping the landing legs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Girlinhat on December 27, 2014, 12:39:17 am
I actually had it happen with a really shitty spaceplane.  I ran the engine full throttle for a second, so it gained speed and shoved itself in the ground, then bounced back, where SAS could push her back upright and get landing gear down.  I only lost a few air intakes!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 27, 2014, 02:57:45 am
Kraken constantly attacks my rocket during vertical ascent for some reason:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure if it's a bug or simply lack of struts. Weirdly enough, the rocket doesn't break up in mid-air, however it's completely uncontrollable. Even when I deploy the lander and open parachutes, the wobbling continues.
EDIT: I've removed some spheric RCS tanks in VAB, and the wobbling stopped. That's weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on December 27, 2014, 03:02:54 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 27, 2014, 02:57:45 am
EDIT: I've removed some spheric RCS tanks in VAB, and the wobbling stopped. That's weird.
They were probably clipping and creating phantom forces. That tends to happen when you cluster a lot of objects near each other.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on December 27, 2014, 03:25:13 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on December 26, 2014, 06:22:23 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 26, 2014, 12:07:53 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 26, 2014, 11:47:36 am
Now play hard mode.

Yolo

Or rather

Ykolo
Hardmode is best mode.
Oh god where is my funding, Jeb's dead, the Kraken killed him, why, shit, oh shit, no reverts, Success! Damn I'm still brokethough :(
Real space programs in a nutshell  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on December 27, 2014, 03:39:31 am
Man, I just can't get these rocket planes flying.   I've got something twice the size of what I normally use to put one kerbal in orbit, but it keeps falling short of hitting a target just off the coast of the space center.

I think the problem is the shitty radial engines I'm trying to test.  This is good, I was worried that I had somehow lost my ability to fly short distances.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on December 27, 2014, 02:34:03 pm
Quote from: Caroline on December 26, 2014, 12:07:53 pm
Quote from: Japa on December 26, 2014, 11:47:36 am
Now play hard mode.

Yolo

Or rather

Ykolo
Hardmode is best mode.
I usually play moderate for vanilla ones, though if I add FAR/lifesupport/Interstellar/therestofmyusualmods I have to go back to baby normal mode because I suddenly become incompetent at flying rockets straight up. Somehow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 01, 2015, 08:31:23 pm
Doublepost because BUMP.

So I just tried to rescue a Kerbal before having an upgraded tracking station...not fun. TARGET VELOCITY AND POSITION UNKNOWN. MY BRAIN HURTS.

Got it within 19 km though, so I still feel pretty awesome.

Also, the unofficial version of Interstellar is compatible with beta right now. Currently checking the awesomeness.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 02, 2015, 05:45:39 am
I'm really enjoying the new contracts.  I hadn't played with Fine Print before the "Beta" release, so this is all pretty new to me.

I like how it provides pacing to the game along with the upgrade costs for the various facilities.  I can use the Policy system to cripple my reputation gains, as they usually max-out fairly quickly.  This provides pacing for what contracts I have available, and the contracts in turn fund the unlocking of things

Also, using the Satellite Placement contracts to distribute my communications network means that I'm not launching well-designed efficient satellite constellations as soon as I have the tech.  I have a larger number of relays at random geometries, making greater use of the short range 45deg cones to try to achieve overlapping coverage.

My first automated moon probe is currently in flight, and correcting it's communications coverage is fun and a little dicey. 

And with TAC-LS, I cant yet afford any of the large space station missions, or "free" orbital science jobs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on January 02, 2015, 11:50:03 am
Quote from: puke on January 02, 2015, 05:45:39 am
I'm really enjoying the new contracts.  I hadn't played with Fine Print before the "Beta" release, so this is all pretty new to me.

I like how it provides pacing to the game along with the upgrade costs for the various facilities.  I can use the Policy system to cripple my reputation gains, as they usually max-out fairly quickly.  This provides pacing for what contracts I have available, and the contracts in turn fund the unlocking of things

Also, using the Satellite Placement contracts to distribute my communications network means that I'm not launching well-designed efficient satellite constellations as soon as I have the tech.  I have a larger number of relays at random geometries, making greater use of the short range 45deg cones to try to achieve overlapping coverage.

My first automated moon probe is currently in flight, and correcting it's communications coverage is fun and a little dicey. 

And with TAC-LS, I cant yet afford any of the large space station missions, or "free" orbital science jobs.

I likewise didn't use FinePrint, so looking forward to seeing these new contract setups (haven't updated to the latest version yet).  I take it from your satellites comment that you're using RemoteTech (as well as TAC-LS) - is it working well in the latest version?  I had some minor issues (non-working parts) last time I tried using it (a few versions back) so have steered clear of it since.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 02, 2015, 12:25:37 pm
Works great.  These are the only two mods I use, so I can't speak to other potential conflicts.

There are a few things that could be improved: the autopilot could be better integrated with the new beta autopilot features.  The flight computer sometimes gets confused when you toggle between vessels with [] but it is easily fixed (close / reopen, or switch vessels with map)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on January 02, 2015, 10:22:52 pm
I may have posted it before, but KSP tips (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/103537-0-90-KSP-Tips-v2-0-0-0-(Jan-3)) is a neat little mod; very useful for the first-timer or learner.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 03, 2015, 08:20:42 pm
Isn't this the game where Putnam asked for mod ideas? I think so, but regardless, here is my little mod idea anyway for anyone who can do such things.

Basically I just got the idea of a newspaper or tv program or somesuch that you can view somewhere that show's the public response to the space programs achievements.

So for example if you complete a contract to put a satellite in orbit there might be a tiny article or mention about it but landing on the Mun for the first time gets a full front page splatter.

And if you really wanna go far with it you could have the response depend on your current reputation. So while a high rep program will get a inspiring article about how awesome they are for landing on the Mun a low rep one will get a blurb about how "it was totally staged" and such.

Well there's my idea for making Kerbin feel less lifeless. Hope someone runs with it or posts about it in the actual KSP forum or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 04, 2015, 12:59:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on January 03, 2015, 08:20:42 pm
Isn't this the game where Putnam asked for mod ideas? I think so, but regardless, here is my little mod idea anyway for anyone who can do such things.

Basically I just got the idea of a newspaper or tv program or somesuch that you can view somewhere that show's the public response to the space programs achievements.

So for example if you complete a contract to put a satellite in orbit there might be a tiny article or mention about it but landing on the Mun for the first time gets a full front page splatter.

And if you really wanna go far with it you could have the response depend on your current reputation. So while a high rep program will get a inspiring article about how awesome they are for landing on the Mun a low rep one will get a blurb about how "it was totally staged" and such.

Well there's my idea for making Kerbin feel less lifeless. Hope someone runs with it or posts about it in the actual KSP forum or something.
You could go the route of Sim city 4 and have a ticker somewhere that scrolls flavour text that's appropriate to whatever's going on, modified by your reputation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 04, 2015, 01:19:28 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 04, 2015, 12:59:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on January 03, 2015, 08:20:42 pm
Isn't this the game where Putnam asked for mod ideas? I think so, but regardless, here is my little mod idea anyway for anyone who can do such things.

Basically I just got the idea of a newspaper or tv program or somesuch that you can view somewhere that show's the public response to the space programs achievements.

So for example if you complete a contract to put a satellite in orbit there might be a tiny article or mention about it but landing on the Mun for the first time gets a full front page splatter.

And if you really wanna go far with it you could have the response depend on your current reputation. So while a high rep program will get a inspiring article about how awesome they are for landing on the Mun a low rep one will get a blurb about how "it was totally staged" and such.

Well there's my idea for making Kerbin feel less lifeless. Hope someone runs with it or posts about it in the actual KSP forum or something.
You could go the route of Sim city 4 and have a ticker somewhere that scrolls flavour text that's appropriate to whatever's going on, modified by your reputation.

YES
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on January 04, 2015, 03:13:45 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 04, 2015, 01:19:28 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on January 04, 2015, 12:59:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on January 03, 2015, 08:20:42 pm
Isn't this the game where Putnam asked for mod ideas? I think so, but regardless, here is my little mod idea anyway for anyone who can do such things.

Basically I just got the idea of a newspaper or tv program or somesuch that you can view somewhere that show's the public response to the space programs achievements.

So for example if you complete a contract to put a satellite in orbit there might be a tiny article or mention about it but landing on the Mun for the first time gets a full front page splatter.

And if you really wanna go far with it you could have the response depend on your current reputation. So while a high rep program will get a inspiring article about how awesome they are for landing on the Mun a low rep one will get a blurb about how "it was totally staged" and such.

Well there's my idea for making Kerbin feel less lifeless. Hope someone runs with it or posts about it in the actual KSP forum or something.
You could go the route of Sim city 4 and have a ticker somewhere that scrolls flavour text that's appropriate to whatever's going on, modified by your reputation.

YES
Could modify it with funds and science/tech unlocks too. Adverts for things like "Mystery Goo Shampoo: Space goo for you too!", "Rockomax Poodle Brand BBQ: Cook your hot dogs like John Carmack*!" or stories like "Penniless scientist caught pilfering lab equipment."

*This may be a bit obscure, but it refers to a video from when he was making liquid fuel rockets, in which they roasted their labor day hot dogs by putting them next to the test area (http://armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=369) they were flying a rocket at. So using rockets as a BBQ is something which actually happens, and not just in flavor text.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 05, 2015, 10:18:55 pm
0.90 has new biomes! I totally forgot this was a thing. I waited until this year to start back up from scratch. I've just been mining Kerbin for science and money with some ScanSat and comms sats so I can go abroad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 06, 2015, 03:20:23 am
I've been waiting to do any serious science mining until my kerbals got to level2. 

Orbiting each body in the kerbal system accomplishes this, so I sent up a mission with all 9 of my 1-star kerbalnauts on it.  It would:

Deploy a munar commsat to a specific orbit, place a crewed station around the mun, perform a "gather science" mission, test one of those heavy dual-engine fuel tanks on munar escape trajectory, and bring everyone (all 9 of my kerbals) home with their second star.

About 100k to launch, 500k in payouts.

Landed on a moyntain slope, tipped over, both hitchhiker cans exploded.  Everyone but Jeb died, he was piloting from a lander can on top, and was shielded by a wall of ablative radial parachutes (and the coushioning explosion of all of his brothers and friends)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 06, 2015, 06:06:47 am
Some complaints about the experience system:

First:  It only tracks a single achievement for each planetary body.  It is fine that it only gives experience for your greatest accomplishment at each location, but I would still like to see a full career record for each kerbalnaut.  Something like 5 Flights at Kerbin, 2 Orbits of Kerbin, 1 Flyby of the Mun... that sort of thing.  Even if you only get points for 1 Orbit and the Flyby, I'd like to see the history of each thing

Second:  It does not track the expereince of lost Kerbals at all.  Once they die (or presumably are otherwise lost -- like if you deleted a crewed flight or something?) all their stars and achievement history stops being displayed.

Your fallen heroes should have all their decorations!  this is a travesty!

On a related note, I've found that it doesn't matter to my how many white-shirts meet their end in the service of !!Skience!!, but if any of the three original stooges are lost I have a /strong/ urge to restart the career.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 07:42:58 am
You think those are issues with experience system?

What about the Engineer Master Race problem?

I.E. Pilots are useless once you get probes that can do their job, and scientists are useless once you unlock everything (or just in general, seeing how much faster it is to just throw money at science)

Basically, late game the only kerbals who matter are engineers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 06, 2015, 07:56:01 am
Well, the science thing isnt an issue for me since I tend to get bored and restart once I unlock all the science anyway.

And as for Pilots, I play with remote-tech and it is neigh-impossible to land on a vacuum planetoid or pilot an aerodynamic craft over a high-latency connection.  I guess you could just bring a remote control station into the local area, but for some reason flying is more fun with Pilots.

I'm not sure what you could ask scientists to do besides gather science points... maybe working towards some sort of achievements by having high ranking scientists run every experiment on every biome, for completionist types?  What about scientists generating funds through 100% research-to-funds policies?  That adds some value if you are making a habit of launching extravagantly expensive rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 09:44:50 am
Well I AM making a habit of launching extraordinarily expensive rockets :P

I would imagine for the scientist thing that maybe they could do something like Interstellar does, where you "upgrade" already unlocked parts with sweet magical science to make it better. And you have to do that for every iteration of said part. Or something.

I DON'T play with remote-tech and thus have no idea how to make pilots not redundant after you science a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 06, 2015, 12:56:21 pm
Well with RT you need a nearby crew to remotely pilot a probe, otherwise you have a large delay if the probe is some light-seconds or -minutes from the control center... but nothing says that crew could not be a crew if engineers with their own probe piloted ship.

In an age of self-driving cars and drone warfare, I have to wonder what if anything will keep real pilots relevant.

In terms of game balance, it used to be that if you wanted a surface sample or a flag planted, you needed to crew the ship.  I'm not sure what could make pilots relevant now, except that they can still perform that function for some weight and cost savings on a single-kerbal ship.

Otherwise, I think you'd have to give them a special EVA ability (maybe something like navball/map/SAS use with jetpack?) Or you'd have to nerf probe cores.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 01:35:01 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 09:44:50 am
I DON'T play with remote-tech and thus have no idea how to make pilots not redundant after you science a bit.

Pilots keep your part count low when going out beyond Duna. Solars are less efficient out there and batteries are parts. High part counts eat fps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 05:36:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 01:35:01 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 09:44:50 am
I DON'T play with remote-tech and thus have no idea how to make pilots not redundant after you science a bit.

Pilots keep your part count low when going out beyond Duna. Solars are less efficient out there and batteries are parts. High part counts eat fps.

Ah, this is one problem I'm NOT going to encounter. I use Interstellar, which gives me access to fission/fusion/antimatter generators that make concerns about electricity absolutely moot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Probes can plant flags and take surface samples now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on January 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Probes can plant flags and take surface samples now?

Wait, what?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:11:10 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on January 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Probes can plant flags and take surface samples now?
Wait, what?
Quote from: puke on January 06, 2015, 12:56:21 pm
In terms of game balance, it used to be that if you wanted a surface sample or a flag planted, you needed to crew the ship.  I'm not sure what could make pilots relevant now, except that they can still perform that function for some weight and cost savings on a single-kerbal ship.
I don't know either.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 06:11:36 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 05:36:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 01:35:01 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 09:44:50 am
I DON'T play with remote-tech and thus have no idea how to make pilots not redundant after you science a bit.

Pilots keep your part count low when going out beyond Duna. Solars are less efficient out there and batteries are parts. High part counts eat fps.

Ah, this is one problem I'm NOT going to encounter. I use Interstellar, which gives me access to fission/fusion/antimatter generators that make concerns about electricity absolutely moot.

For a couple years, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 06:28:18 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 06:11:36 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 05:36:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 01:35:01 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 09:44:50 am
I DON'T play with remote-tech and thus have no idea how to make pilots not redundant after you science a bit.

Pilots keep your part count low when going out beyond Duna. Solars are less efficient out there and batteries are parts. High part counts eat fps.

Ah, this is one problem I'm NOT going to encounter. I use Interstellar, which gives me access to fission/fusion/antimatter generators that make concerns about electricity absolutely moot.

For a couple years, yes.

The smallest fission reactor/generator combo is 62cm, outputs roughly enough power to run an entire city of ion engines, and can easily last upwards of TEN YEARS.
How many missions do you go on that last longer then TEN YEARS?
Answer: NOT FUCKING MANY!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 06:29:17 pm
Unupgraded they run for awhile. Upgraded they run shorter lives.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 06:30:54 pm
Then don't upgrade the ones you use for power.

Problem solved.

I'm PRETTY sure that you have to upgrade everything individually, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 06, 2015, 06:32:08 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:11:10 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on January 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
Quote from: Graknorke on January 06, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Probes can plant flags and take surface samples now?
Wait, what?
Quote from: puke on January 06, 2015, 12:56:21 pm
In terms of game balance, it used to be that if you wanted a surface sample or a flag planted, you needed to crew the ship.  I'm not sure what could make pilots relevant now, except that they can still perform that function for some weight and cost savings on a single-kerbal ship.
I don't know either.

yeah you need a crew to plant flags and get samples
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 06, 2015, 06:33:36 pm
Pilots also add autopilot when they have alot of skill, and I think more skill also improves the SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 06:39:15 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 06:30:54 pm
Then don't upgrade the ones you use for power.

Problem solved.

I'm PRETTY sure that you have to upgrade everything individually, right?

Ones that already exist? Yes. Ones built after you tech up and unlock the upgrades happen automatically when building them. You don't have a choice there. Manual downgrades is a feature that's been requested many times over the past year or more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 08:08:19 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 06, 2015, 06:39:15 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 06, 2015, 06:30:54 pm
Then don't upgrade the ones you use for power.

Problem solved.

I'm PRETTY sure that you have to upgrade everything individually, right?

Ones that already exist? Yes. Ones built after you tech up and unlock the upgrades happen automatically when building them. You don't have a choice there. Manual downgrades is a feature that's been requested many times over the past year or more.
Ah, that makes sense I suppose.

Still, I don't think I've ever had a GAME last long enough for one of those things to go dry, let alone a mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on January 06, 2015, 09:21:21 pm
This guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQE3cUZNJ2Y) has a single mission that lasts 10 years.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 15, 2015, 09:37:00 pm
Shipping up Kerbals to the Mun and Minmus for level ups is tedious. I need a cheap runabout that can do both and isn't a SSTO plane. Getting them to level 3 and up so engineers can actually repair important things like landing gear and wheels? ARGH!!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 16, 2015, 02:35:29 am
I think they can only get to level 2 without leaving the Kerbin system.  And they can get to that without landing -- just orbiting each body.

Fly them all on a big space-bus, get an orbit of each planetoid, come home.

Just dont do what I did and have the landing vehicle tip over back on Kerbin, destroying two hitchhiker containers and killing everyone but Jeb.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on January 16, 2015, 02:52:57 am
the xp from dead kerbals should spill over to the leftover alive ones, i think
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 16, 2015, 03:28:37 am
haha!  if that was true I'd just fly them around kerbin collecting souls until my core team was all rank-5.

Those suits started out white, but now they're stained orange with the tang-flavored blood of their countrymen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 16, 2015, 08:13:03 am
You can get to the middle of level 2 by landing on each moon of Kerbin. Anything beyond that requires years of travel.

The major annoyance is that I'm starting to build off-planet with Extraplanetary Launchpads/Karbonite and you have to shuttle kerbals all over, return to Kerbin, then ship them back into space. Then they have to come back to Kerbin to level up again. Even without Karbonite you have to do most of that. You could do a grand tour, but then you've just done a grand tour. What's the difference between you're rookies and experienced kerbals at that point?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 24, 2015, 05:01:49 am
Next version is 1.0 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/326-Beyond-Beta)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 24, 2015, 08:34:48 am
Quote from: Putnam on January 24, 2015, 05:01:49 am
Next version is 1.0 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/326-Beyond-Beta)

*EXPLODES FROM HYPENESS*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on January 24, 2015, 08:43:30 am
hopefully, it will have been worth the weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2015, 08:43:47 am
Looks like I can eat my words on that fuel-mining thing.

What I was hoping their "resource" upgrade would be, is a system to carry variable resources in any given tankage space.  So instead of having a Rocket Fuel fuselage and a Jet Fuel fuselage, you would just have a generic "wet tankage" fuselage and you could store whatever ratio of jet, rocket, monoprop, oxidizer, xenon, or Tang that you wanted.

Even if it was just a choice between LF and LF/O2, with the others requiring their specialized tankage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 24, 2015, 08:49:05 am
Quote from: miauw62 on January 24, 2015, 08:43:30 am
hopefully, it will have been worth the weight.
I'm sure the obesity will be proven worth it.

Quote from: puke on January 24, 2015, 08:43:47 am
Looks like I can eat my words on that fuel-mining thing.

What I was hoping their "resource" upgrade would be, is a system to carry variable resources in any given tankage space.  So instead of having a Rocket Fuel fuselage and a Jet Fuel fuselage, you would just have a generic "wet tankage" fuselage and you could store whatever ratio of jet, rocket, monoprop, oxidizer, xenon, or Tang that you wanted.

Even if it was just a choice between LF and LF/O2, with the others requiring their specialized tankage.
So basically you wanted it to be B9?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2015, 08:59:10 am
Yeah, sure. 

Except with out the hugely expanded parts list, bloated textures, and whatever other changes it makes that seem to be the cause of about 75% of the crash reports and help requests I see on the various KSP forums and groups.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 24, 2015, 09:03:53 am
Yeah, trust me, I know all about how crappy B9 can be.

I was mostly referring to how the latest version had fuel types be a toggle thing for all their containers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on January 24, 2015, 09:15:08 am
sokay, I'm sure I'll be content with sucking resources out of planetoids. 

I wonder if they will come from specific spots and/or be depletible, or if you'll just be able to plop down anywhere and slowly churn regolith into gas?  Also, if the stock facilities for doing this will need to be staffed?

Could have interesting interplays with TAC-LS.  A permenent staffed fuel facility on Minmus seems like a grand idea, but now you need to keep shipping it snacks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 24, 2015, 11:19:32 am
Quote from: puke on January 24, 2015, 09:15:08 am
Could have interesting interplays with TAC-LS.  A permenent staffed fuel facility on Minmus seems like a grand idea, but now you need to keep shipping it snacks.
I can already do this because Interstellar :P

And heck, I think there are TAC compatible mods that let you grow the snacks there too!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on January 24, 2015, 12:24:02 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 24, 2015, 11:19:32 am
Quote from: puke on January 24, 2015, 09:15:08 am
Could have interesting interplays with TAC-LS.  A permenent staffed fuel facility on Minmus seems like a grand idea, but now you need to keep shipping it snacks.
I can already do this because Interstellar :P

And heck, I think there are TAC compatible mods that let you grow the snacks there too!

That would be MKS/OKS. I never did figure how to get something standalone self-sufficient, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 28, 2015, 01:15:00 am
They're finally overhauling aerodynamics, but I hope they're going to consider surface pressure. stress and heating, particularly re-entry forces, I can't believe they would ignore such a critical concept.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 28, 2015, 01:20:08 am
Re-entry heating is in for the next update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on January 28, 2015, 01:25:20 am
Awesome! I just saw in the comments that it wasn't mentioned and assumed it wasn't in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on January 28, 2015, 01:28:05 am
To be fair, it was announced four hours ago. (http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/109349935794/devnote-tuesdays-the-really-hot-edition)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on January 28, 2015, 02:50:48 am
I was just thinking that that was going to be a glaring omissions for "1.0"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 29, 2015, 02:30:25 am
Remember when "multiplayer is impossible" and "multiplayer will come after the beta" and well, nothing is to be taken for granted with squad.


Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 29, 2015, 03:22:16 am
Nothing is to be taken as 100% certain in game development in general. Or in real life in general. Things tend to change at times. Multiplayer was more "inconceivable" and "impractical" than "impossible", anyway. Once someone figured out how it could work (and then went ahead and kludged together a working-ish version), of course the opinion of it changed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on January 29, 2015, 03:55:52 am
Not to mention the other few groups of people who kludged together things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 30, 2015, 08:16:29 am
DAMN YOU AIR TOXICITY! DAMMMMMMMMMN YOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUU!!!

Just lost Jeb to TAC because I didn't realize the first NASA booster things didn't have an alternator.

Seriously, running out of electricity is the deadliest thing I have ever seen in this game.

Also, hope the guys who did that multiplayer thing were hired by Squad or at least had bags of money thrown at them for their idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on February 08, 2015, 03:07:53 am
Does a Bay 12 Dark Multiplayer server exist?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on February 08, 2015, 04:08:15 am
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on February 08, 2015, 03:07:53 am
Does a Bay 12 Dark Multiplayer server exist?
I attempted one once but it died from lack of interest.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on February 10, 2015, 01:36:30 pm
I have apparently created a Kerbal Space Program succession game:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148414.msg6024657#msg6024657
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 10, 2015, 03:12:53 pm
premature successation! we're this close | | to 1.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on February 10, 2015, 04:57:22 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on February 10, 2015, 03:12:53 pm
premature successation! we're this close | | to 1.0

Nope.  Game world hasn't begun yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 21, 2015, 05:32:49 am
Alright, so queued up for 1.0 are:

Redone aerodynamics
Reentry heating
Resources (https://i.imgur.com/neKPtkQ.png) (Karbonite style, apparently)
Female kerbals (https://i.imgur.com/sL6pvAj.png)
Timewarp-to (like Kerbal Alarm Clock)
Procedural fairings
"Secret Project"

And whatever I've forgotten about or missed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 21, 2015, 05:36:50 am
Oh wow, I've been playing 1.0 all along, and I didn't realize! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 21, 2015, 07:35:13 am
I'm shocked they didn't screw up female kerbals, they're actually kind of cute.
All these features are enough for me to start playing Vanilla again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on February 21, 2015, 08:44:03 am
I'm impressed they managed to make them look like professional role models without primping them up in makeup or rendering extra curves.

I've always preferred vanilla, I tried a few of the big parts mods and found them unstable.  The extra textures just bogged things down, while the vanilla game went to lenghts to reduce and streamline textures.  The extra parts just made a mess and either made things too easy or didn't add any value for the extra complexity.

Wanted to like scansat, but it only worked while the sat was in focus so that was sort of useless.

I do play with TAC-LS and RemoteTech, as those add significant gameplay enhancements without too much complexity, unbalancing, performance, or stability hits.  But that is about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2015, 08:54:07 am
What, you were afraid they'd look like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on February 21, 2015, 08:55:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2015, 08:54:07 am
What, you were afraid they'd look like this?
Where's the Toblerone?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 21, 2015, 09:17:30 am
Google search for "female kerbal" turns up some hilarious things, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which, imo, looks more like 80s Kerbals than female kerbals :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on February 21, 2015, 09:26:48 am
haha!  There is some really sad and pervey stuff that comes up under that image search.  People spend unimaginable effort on the darnedest things...

This one made it worthwhile though:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like the placement of the digestive tract.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on February 21, 2015, 03:48:26 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 21, 2015, 09:17:30 am
Google search for "female kerbal" turns up some hilarious things, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which, imo, looks more like 80s Kerbals than female kerbals :P

That middle one has Donny Osmond's hair.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on February 21, 2015, 04:39:27 pm
So that means when kerbals are operating the spacecraft...

eeew
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 22, 2015, 12:34:44 am
Quote from: Putnam on February 21, 2015, 03:48:26 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on February 21, 2015, 09:17:30 am
Google search for "female kerbal" turns up some hilarious things, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which, imo, looks more like 80s Kerbals than female kerbals :P

That middle one has Donny Osmond's hair.
Pretty sure the middle one is that guy from CHiPs, the left one is the hoff, right might be Carol brady but I'm probably wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2015, 09:09:36 pm
Here's a full sourced list for what's in 1.0. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/110482-So-let-s-make-a-summary-of-all-the-news-for-1-0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Micro102 on March 04, 2015, 10:59:08 pm
I wish the planets themselves had physics, just absurdly high and realistic values, for the sole sake of the ability to make an unreasonably large space station int he form of a hand that will grab the Mun and push it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2015, 11:21:03 pm
The main problem with that is that the Jool system would completely fly apart within a few in-game months.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 04, 2015, 11:52:06 pm
The planets would fly apart as soon as you engaged and disengaged timewarp. It's why they're on rails.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 05, 2015, 02:52:16 am
True, there was even a simulation program some month ago showing the whole system,

I also remember someone found a way to arrange the jool moons in a way to have them stable for a hundred years or so keeping similar dv for reaching them

However, this poses dozen other problems with how the game works, the whole engine is not orbiter
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on March 05, 2015, 10:20:49 am
Also, the physics range is limited to a radius of 1km or something near that, so that'd also pose some issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on March 05, 2015, 01:57:25 pm
2km, I think. Things load 'n' explode at 2km. Wouldn't explode if physics weren't happening.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on March 05, 2015, 04:05:36 pm
2km, which is expanded by various mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 05, 2015, 04:25:24 pm
2.5km actually, but from my experience there seems to be another zone within a few hundred meters where physics is accurately simulated and further out things seem to get abstracted to a degree.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on March 10, 2015, 03:11:02 pm
Feel like building a working colony? Civilian Population (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/112142-90-Civilian-Population-1-1?p=1766392&viewfull=1#post1766392) looks like a pretty good mod for this: it has space tourists, rent income from your habitats, and even generate new Kerbonauts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 22, 2015, 09:18:09 am
I'm testing a ssto, with the intent of printing it someday. so far soo good, but I get bored on doing the whole ascent orbit thing to test that it can actually reenter without back flipping.

a couple booster later...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
it can perfectly take off without jato, but why bother? turbojets are slow to kick in and the intial climb to 5000mt is just a slog

with this instead:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
the interesting part is that the jato thrust is only on the top side,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but a couple additional wings offset its rotation:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

however, once it's spent, you need to be fast and dodge the rockets, because the jato additional wings intersect with the tail o_O
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

luckily it pitches up a little when detached, barely enough to fly down it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 22, 2015, 08:31:26 pm
Theres a problem with your SSTO LoSboccacc. Its not an SSTO because it has an extra stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on March 22, 2015, 09:27:07 pm
The boosters were only added to get into orbit faster, to test re-entry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 22, 2015, 09:54:21 pm
"It's still an SSTO! The other twelve stages don't count I swear!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on March 22, 2015, 10:37:37 pm
Are you sending it up with the amount of fuel it would have on rentry?  If not you  could be testing it wrong.  The biggest problem I have with SSTOs is fuel rebalancing.  It shifts the center of mass enough to make the whole thing unstable.  While I can land my planes beautifully on the ground after flying around for a few minutes, going to orbit makes the whole thing impossible to fly safely. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 23, 2015, 01:53:01 am
Well reentry test highlighted a tendency on backflipping between 30k and 10k, but with some added wing parts on the rear it can be recovered.

Reentry is now a death spiral up until 10000m then you turn engine on and by 5000 you're level again.

I'll leave it like that, for the dramatic and comedy effect.

edit: the last wing configuration:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

when the JATO gets removed, I'll add a elevator between the two tail rudder at the same height of the external elevators.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 04, 2015, 03:30:21 am
TIL
You can reparent to the payload clampotron and have the whole spaceplane as assembly

You can finally select multiple fuel tanks and transfer fuel one to many and one from many
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 04, 2015, 04:18:39 pm
Been playing around with the kOS mod lately; it's really nice. It especially comes into its own when playing hard mode, since being able to launch lots of satellites easily and repeatably is essential.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 04, 2015, 05:23:24 pm
I tried to get off of Eve and was 2000 dV short. Of course, I launched from about 1500m; there are places that are far higher and that I probably could have launched from. I might have also benefited from a better launch profile.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 05, 2015, 05:11:47 am
Finally got my 5t payload ssto working

It actually can go with the payload up to the moon.

http://m.imgur.com/a/ukwJf
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on April 08, 2015, 09:26:46 pm
1.0 is in experimentals now, so that means there's likely only a couple weeks at most left before it goes live.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 10, 2015, 06:34:56 am
Quote from: Glloyd on April 08, 2015, 09:26:46 pm
1.0 is in experimentals now, so that means there's likely only a couple weeks at most left before it goes live.
Excellent. I have been holding off starting a new game until 1.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on April 10, 2015, 07:06:46 am
I keep starting games of this and then stopping, since I don't have a huge amount of play time and hate restarting for updates. So I too have been holding off since I bought this game years ago, waiting for 1.0 so I could finally start a career. Also just got a joystick, so that'll make it even more fun!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 10, 2015, 07:12:57 am
wow, you have not started a career in previous versions?  They were worth doing.

I played most major versions on career mode long enough to fill out most of the tech tree, which is maybe 10-20 hours or so at a time.  Might play for a week or two, and then stop and wait for the next major change.

This practice has prolonged my enjoyment of the game.  I think I'll probably continue to play for a brief time after each subsequent update and major feature change, but this isnt the kind of game that I can just play endlessly.  I need something new to hook my attention, and so far it has been each new feature addition that has done it.

If I'd just waited for 1.0, I'd end up playing for a bit and then shelving it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on April 10, 2015, 07:26:21 am
I've started a few careers, just never gotten too deep in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 10, 2015, 09:15:30 am
Why do building upgrades gotta be so goddamn expensive :'c
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 11, 2015, 02:31:43 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on April 10, 2015, 09:15:30 am
Why do building upgrades gotta be so goddamn expensive :'c
Because if they were cheap it the game would turn into the same thing as science mode too quickly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 11, 2015, 02:52:03 pm
Personally I've always only gotten less than halfway through the tech tree (I think?) and never made it to any other planets (because they're never aligned and I don't want to just fast forward for months while my space program does nothing). But it gets boring just flying to the same moons over and over so I lose interest.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 11, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
Yea that's why I tend to enjoy atmospheric stuff like spaceplanes and mining more than actually going to space.  Even if I wanna go to duna it's either overengineer the hell out of some supercraft that could make it to any point in the solar system just to get to duna without an ideal launch window, or spend multiple years in flight, or even multiple years just waiting for a window. And it is just immersion breaking that the space program would do nothing in this time.

I can kinda solve the multiple years in flight thing by running other missions while waiting, but then I risk doing something stupid like accidentally forgetting about a key date or something and 'Duna or Bust MK IV' ends up lithobraking on duna while I'm building racecars and ramps at the KSC.

So yes, I've only been to Duna once. (yes it involved explosions)  Never went there again.  Been there, done that, stranded a kerbal there.  So I'm perfectly happy building mining bases and more and more complex transport planes and SSTOs at kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 11, 2015, 08:19:15 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 11, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
while I'm building racecars and ramps at the KSC.
what am I doing with my life?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nearlyNonexistent on April 11, 2015, 10:14:49 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 11, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
I can kinda solve the multiple years in flight thing by running other missions while waiting, but then I risk doing something stupid like accidentally forgetting about a key date or something and 'Duna or Bust MK IV' ends up lithobraking on duna while I'm building racecars and ramps at the KSC.


I'd suggest getting Kerbal Alarm Clock, it's a good mod that doesn't add anything cheaty, just a realistic scheduling feature I would imagine getting added to the game eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 11, 2015, 10:22:37 pm
Literally next version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 12, 2015, 12:17:29 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 11, 2015, 08:19:15 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 11, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
while I'm building racecars and ramps at the KSC.
what am I doing with my life?
Evidently not building racecars.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Go make some stylish functional pieces of art now!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Er, Caution; contains small parts which are a choking hazard for infants, spontaneous disassembly may occur, see a doctor if nausea persists, race cars are not to be taken internally, or to be used for transport of live animals, racecars are not a significant source of dietary nutrients.
Edited because large gif was insufficiently explody enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 12, 2015, 06:49:44 am
Are there any mods that give fueled wheels?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 12, 2015, 08:15:28 am
Just put flywheels on stock fuel tanks.  Nothing could go wrong with this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Myrkky100 on April 12, 2015, 01:44:58 pm
I'm a newbie with Kerbal and have been toying around with the career mode for a while. Currently working on Project Munshot. Phase I, the satellite, went without a hitch but now I'm stuck in Phase II, the unmanned lander. The first lander touched down in the canyons, fell over, dropped from a cliff and exploded. The second one fell over, I got it flying again regardless but a mishap with the flight computer (modded) sent it careening back into the surface. Right now the third lander actually landed upright and made it back to Kerbin. Unfortunately I landed on the dark side of Kerbin and the batteries ran out before I could deploy the parachutes  :'(

Just wanted to share...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 12, 2015, 03:07:43 pm
Experiences like that are priceless.  In stock, you can actually deploy parachutes before hitting atmosphere and they are strong enough not to rip off as you re-enter.

Unless you are using something like Deadly Reentery, there is no penalty from popping the chutes early.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 12, 2015, 04:29:20 pm
On that note, it is now a personal tradition when playing with TAC Life Support that my first Munshot must be built without solar panels, thus requiring me to throttle up occasionally to prevent death by air toxicity. Note: It is REALLY hard to do this without quicksaves.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 12, 2015, 10:24:57 pm
My mun landers tend to use the engine that doesn't produce power, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 12, 2015, 10:27:20 pm
I think he is mostly talking about transfer stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 13, 2015, 06:23:38 am
We need some kind of stock fuel cell.

Protip: If you disable electric charge resource on a batter you can enable it later. It is basically the same as shutting the craft down to save power. I do this to save power for my unmanned probes. They only turn 'on' when I have a correction burn to make.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 13, 2015, 08:14:46 am
we've the rtg but that's unlocked way later. you can always pack more capsule, for that extra battery capacity at low tech :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 13, 2015, 08:59:32 am
I guess you could include two engines pointed exactly opposite each other so that their thrust cancels out, and fire them to generate power.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2015, 09:07:10 am
Pointed perpendicular to normal thrust would be easiest and most useful in some situations if toggled on hotkeys.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 13, 2015, 09:10:15 am
It would be inefficient to haul two extra engines up just for power generation but yeah, could be useful in some instances.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 13, 2015, 02:18:22 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 12, 2015, 10:27:20 pm
I think he is mostly talking about transfer stages.
Yeah my first Mun mission isn't a landing mission, always set up a basic "Go there, orbit, come back" thing beforehand. That's the one that has to worry about electricity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 13, 2015, 02:25:43 pm
Am I the only one who lands a separate unmanned return stage before sending my kerbonauts? I actually did a triple hop mission once. Dropped a return stage on minmus and a transfer stage on mun. Landed on the mun, moved over to the transfer stages for a quick hop to Minmus, then back to kerbin in the return stage.

Not for any real reason, it's just fun and I like practicing landing on specific spots.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2015, 03:11:41 pm
Ive never managed to land on the Mun. Came close once, but floating point shenanigans took my perfect landing and threw it away into interplanetary space.

I spend most of my time building massive spaceships in the hangar, and occasionally trying to launch them into space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2015, 03:30:42 pm
RCS can help with sideslipping if that's part of the problem. You just have to center rcs thrust on center of mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 13, 2015, 03:37:49 pm
Nah, it was trying to setup a landing during the transfer, without orbiting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 13, 2015, 03:47:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2015, 03:30:42 pm
RCS can help with sideslipping if that's part of the problem. You just have to center rcs thrust on center of mass.
And yet this somehow never helps my landings. Ever. I ALWAYS have just enough sideslip to tip my ship off its legs. No idea how to fix it. I've all but given up landing on the Mun on fucking legs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 13, 2015, 03:51:35 pm
Make your ship more squat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 13, 2015, 03:54:45 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 13, 2015, 03:47:33 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 13, 2015, 03:30:42 pm
RCS can help with sideslipping if that's part of the problem. You just have to center rcs thrust on center of mass.
And yet this somehow never helps my landings. Ever. I ALWAYS have just enough sideslip to tip my ship off its legs. No idea how to fix it. I've all but given up landing on the Mun on fucking legs.

SAS also helps. Yes, and less tall, more squat. This is especially true on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 13, 2015, 04:12:09 pm
I swear I have made fucking pancakes that tip over before. Mun just hates me with a burning passion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 13, 2015, 07:58:34 pm
The Mun is a harsh mistress.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 13, 2015, 08:57:35 pm
Just installed realism mod, soooo many fuels, lots of engines, yawn, uninstalling realism mod......
Edit:
I've been watching a series of KSP re-enactments of historical spaceflight, http://www.ksphistory.com/ (http://www.ksphistory.com/) which has motivated me to start a heavily modded career game.
77 Mods, the major ones being Real solar system, Real fuels, Remotetech, Tac life support, Deadly re-entry, Ferram Aerospace Research, Firespitter, KAS, Infernal Robotics, Mechjeb, Procedural Fairings, Procedural parts, Procedural wings, and most importantly for playing Real solar system with remote tech is Solar panel fixer, without this you won't get any solar power outside 200 million kilometres, also I have modded the default remote tech antenna ranges and costs to be more suitable, here's a spreadsheet of the changes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note that I have configured the ranges on the antennas to be enough to reach certain bodies including the distance of earths's orbit, they're pretty nicely lined up by range, cost, power consumption, and tech level.
Also I uninstalled several mods which conflicted with this setup, but thus far it seems to be stable, I also installed a texture compression mod, but it still wasn't enough to let me run a cloud mod, I would run out of ram :( possibly due to the greatly expanded size of the system. Also I think it might have seriously reduced the quality of the graphics in the process :s, space appears far too dark, I may install a new skybox. Also importantly I have not installed the realism mod because I didn't like the changes it made to the stock engines, the real fuels mod itself already modifies real engines to be vastly more realistic anyway.
Edit: changed the antennas slightly, have updated the spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: olemars on April 17, 2015, 07:35:25 am
I want to be rich enough to play KSP with real rockets too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhMSzC1crr0).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 17, 2015, 08:07:17 am
I want a powerful enough pc to make my game look like that, speaking of, I don't have enough ram for the mods I'm using ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
 I'll probably have to disable clouds, they look so pretty :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 08:37:05 am
Quote from: olemars on April 17, 2015, 07:35:25 am
I want to be rich enough to play KSP with real rockets too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhMSzC1crr0).
They got so close! I understand that a landing leg buckled on touchdown. If it hadn't, the rocket would have remained upright.

Just hitting the barge at all is an amazing feat. The fact that they almost managed a powered autonomous soft landing on a barge in the ocean is nothing short of spectacular.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 17, 2015, 08:40:15 am
Musk said that it was because of excess lateral velocity on landing. So an issue with the landing computer rather than the design of the stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 3x3 on April 17, 2015, 09:20:11 am
I was playing it *illegally*, but it is such a good game that i am waiting a discount on steam to buy it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 17, 2015, 09:22:14 am
Quote from: 3x3 on April 17, 2015, 09:20:11 am
I was playing it *illegally*, but it is such a good game that i am waiting a discount on steam to buy it.

It was on sale at humble bundle in the past week or so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 17, 2015, 10:20:17 am
Plus, there is a demo...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 17, 2015, 10:55:09 am
It kinda confuses me why they are attempting to land the rocket that way. I mean KSP isn't real life but doesn't taking enough fuel to land nearly double the amount of fuel you need to take off?  That landing fuel isn't exactly in hammerspace during takeoff and it probably weighs a significant amount.  It's like putting some additional booster rockets on but setting them to separate when they are only 3/4ths empty.

Why not...I donno... a parachute and some flotation bouys?  That's gotta weigh less and be cheaper than a few tons of rocket fuel and still allows recovery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 17, 2015, 11:01:03 am
Not double, no.

Once the stage is separated, and most of the fuel is gone, it's far lighter, and requires much less fuel to slow down and land. Also air resistance helps here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 17, 2015, 11:04:54 am
Precision. With parachutes you're at the mercy of the weather as to how much you drift. With a powered landing you can land on an area as small as Just Read the Instructions. This is very much important, as the end goal is to land it on a landing pad on the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:06:39 am
Quote from: Greiger on April 17, 2015, 10:55:09 am
Why not...I donno... a parachute and some flotation bouys?  That's gotta weigh less and be cheaper than a few tons of rocket fuel and still allows recovery.

1. Seawater is bad for rockets. Ideal would be to land the rocket on land but the launch point and earth's rotation make that difficult and you really don't want a big rocket full of fuel coming down at a populated area.
2. Parachutes don't give you the control you need to land on a small barge in the ocean.
3. It looks awesome and is a great PR stunt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 17, 2015, 11:09:46 am
I think the real reason is because...

(1) Need to slow down the rocket before hitting the atmosphere. Parachutes won't help.

(2) Even if you do touch down perfectly, the sea's waves destroy the stage.

Hence why the barge.

Edit: The reason they want to recover the thing in the first place  is because most of the rocket cost is not in the fuel,  but rather the machinery. So using fuel to land does cut into how much they can send into space, but in the cost perspective nothing much changes.

Edit2: parachutes large enough to handle the first stage are also very heavy, plus they tend to shred at high speed, plus they are not steerable, and finally the fuel needed to bring the rocket back isn't that huge as you'd think it'd be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on April 17, 2015, 11:17:56 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:06:39 am
Quote from: Greiger on April 17, 2015, 10:55:09 am
Why not...I donno... a parachute and some flotation bouys?  That's gotta weigh less and be cheaper than a few tons of rocket fuel and still allows recovery.

Ideal would be to land the rocket on land but the launch point and earth's rotation make that difficult and you really don't want a big rocket full of fuel coming down at a populated area.
It's mostly the latter. The gov't won't let them land on land before they are capable of demonstrating the precision needed to avoid a catastrophe (which seems unlikely given that most launch sites are far away from major urban centers). SpaceX are right now in the process of getting a permission to attempt their next recovery on land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:19:05 am
Quote from: Krevsin on April 17, 2015, 11:17:56 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:06:39 am
Quote from: Greiger on April 17, 2015, 10:55:09 am
Why not...I donno... a parachute and some flotation bouys?  That's gotta weigh less and be cheaper than a few tons of rocket fuel and still allows recovery.

Ideal would be to land the rocket on land but the launch point and earth's rotation make that difficult and you really don't want a big rocket full of fuel coming down at a populated area.
It's mostly the latter. The gov't won't let them land on land before they are capable of demonstrating the precision needed to avoid a catastrophe (which seems unlikely given that most launch sites are far away from major urban centers). SpaceX are right now in the process of getting a permission to attempt their next recovery on land.
Yeah I heard they want to launch from Texas and recover it at Florida or somesuch?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 17, 2015, 11:37:37 am
The extra mass needed to recover the booster cuts down total payload by 15% or something, but the physical first stage is worth far more than 15% of the rocket's cost, therefore it makes economic sense to attempt recovery.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 17, 2015, 11:56:30 am
Saltwater ruining the rocket is something I didn't realize until I read about it in a news article a few days ago, since it doesn't seem to be a problem in KSP. (And with mods, we can drop rockets with giant inflatable balloons surrounding them into the water, so they float on top of it)

Parachutes being too imprecise for landing a rocket somewhere specific seems pretty obvious, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on April 17, 2015, 12:31:40 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:19:05 am
Quote from: Krevsin on April 17, 2015, 11:17:56 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 11:06:39 am
Quote from: Greiger on April 17, 2015, 10:55:09 am
Why not...I donno... a parachute and some flotation bouys?  That's gotta weigh less and be cheaper than a few tons of rocket fuel and still allows recovery.

Ideal would be to land the rocket on land but the launch point and earth's rotation make that difficult and you really don't want a big rocket full of fuel coming down at a populated area.
It's mostly the latter. The gov't won't let them land on land before they are capable of demonstrating the precision needed to avoid a catastrophe (which seems unlikely given that most launch sites are far away from major urban centers). SpaceX are right now in the process of getting a permission to attempt their next recovery on land.
Yeah I heard they want to launch from Texas and recover it at Florida or somesuch?
As far as I know they have a landing complex in Florida, where launches from the Kennedy Space Centre will land. I'm not sure if the landing complex is complete though.

They also have a launch site and landing complex on the west coast, in Vandenberg. They are going to launch a rocket from there this summer and that's supposed to have a ground landing as well.


Personally, I don't think they'll use the barge for anything other than these demonstration missions and maybe a falcon heavy core landing. Too much wind and wave motion to keep the stage upright even if it lands fine. Unless the weather is absolutely perfect (no strong winds, low waves et cetera).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 17, 2015, 01:46:34 pm
Probably true. I still think the barge thing is just a PR thing because it really is damn impressive but impractical.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 17, 2015, 02:03:59 pm
My Ram issues seem to have subsided, I think it was some mods I uninstalled continuing to conflict with the ones still running.
I needed to start with a fresh install and cut down a little, I ended up ditching real fuels, But the game is now running on 2gb ram rather than 3gb at startup. Booting much faster too.
I tweaked life support a little too, it seems consumption rates were about a quarter normal, which makes sense considering how big kerbals are, oh well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 17, 2015, 03:11:17 pm
The creator of kOS has returned to the land of coding, and updated their code, aswell as adding alot of things.
Linky for the video. (https://youtu.be/Vo8kRvuUDlA)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 17, 2015, 11:03:06 pm
MarkAFK: This is one of the first things I always install: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-90-Release-4-3-Dec-16-2014-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM!

Basically it compresses the textures to make the RAM usage less absurd, and then generates mipmaps to improve performance because apparently KSP doesn't have mipmaps?

This is also a thing that might do the same thing, as well as more things: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107471-0-90-TextureReplacer-2-3-1-%2824-3-2015%29
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 18, 2015, 02:31:24 am
I was actually using more ram when I had that installed, because it fucked up a bunch of mod icons (particularly FAR which vanished altogether) so I was running it at full res which stopped the icon problems, but increased ram compared to stock half res.
I should have been able to fix the icons to not be compressed but couldn't figure it out.
Anyway after rejiggling everything I'm now using 2.5 gb on load, which is plenty, ram limit is about 3.8 gb as I recall.
I miss the clouds but they aren't important, also the planetshine mod badly screwed up visibility so that was removed. I think my main ram problems was with plugins conflicting, checking the log there doesn't seem to be a bunch of errors anymore.
This time around I have BD armory installed, I should get some damn interesting stuff out of firespitter now :p
I added some ammo crates for the cannons which were oddly missing. Though I'm terrible at designing rovers I had a blast destroying the space center, except for the vehicle assembly building, that thing is stupidly well made, even half a dozen cruise missiles couldn't take it down, though I did manage to take it out with a badly designed 3000 ton Saturn 5 recreation, made with 17 KR2L because the F-1 part was giving overflow errors to the mass and cost :s
Edit: an earlier version, the katurn 14 which had barely enough thrust to lift off just like a Saturn 5, actually destroyed the Launchpad with it's exhaust . It didn't explode but didn't quite have enough D-V for orbit :(
Edit: It's weird that dawn occurs at midday with kerbal alarm clock, but I can live with that .
Edit: Jiggled around the tech levels of the probe cores, they were all set to unmanned tech for some reason (one of the mods probably), and the wiki gives conflicting information, but I believe I have a good configuration now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2015, 11:52:38 am
The only gun in BD armory that dosent have an ammo crate is the 155mm...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on April 18, 2015, 02:34:29 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 18, 2015, 11:52:38 am
The only gun in BD armory that dosent have an ammo crate is the 155mm...
Wait what o.O? Wrong thread or i missed something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 18, 2015, 02:37:46 pm
Quote from: jocan2003 on April 18, 2015, 02:34:29 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 18, 2015, 11:52:38 am
The only gun in BD armory that dosent have an ammo crate is the 155mm...
Wait what o.O? Wrong thread or i missed something?

There's a mod (a few mods, actually) that add weapon parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2015, 02:44:56 pm
BD armory is a mod that adds a wide selection of guns, missiles, rockets and bombs, for all those many people who like pretending to be Macy Dean with Mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 18, 2015, 05:41:36 pm
Now if you can use them in multiplayer, with bases and mining on other worlds, so you can have interplanetary wars... Then I'll be interested.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 18, 2015, 06:37:57 pm
 Probably depends on the mod, but it does include things to allow you to setup a selection of defenses than fight against them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 18, 2015, 08:23:38 pm
Would probably be great with some kind of homebrew version of kOS with threat detection.  So you could stage an AI rebellion to fight.

Soldiers, we have a crisis, the Iwonderwhat'shererover MK III has apparently abandoned it's search for water on Duna, and has become self aware. It has used the time the planet was on the other side of Kerbol to build a massive battlefleet to attack us.   There are already a number of asteroid redirectors en route to kerbin.  Your mission is to destroy the steering probes directing them to the KSP and redirect the rocks away from the planet.  The nearest one is only 2 weeks away, so you must hurry. 

You are the best pilot we have Jeb.  Don't let us down, and make sure you come back alive, we have a fleet to deal with after this.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 18, 2015, 10:10:59 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 18, 2015, 05:41:36 pm
Now if you can use them in multiplayer, with bases and mining on other worlds, so you can have interplanetary wars... Then I'll be interested.
You can. Including having automated turrets that target the enemy team.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 19, 2015, 01:49:35 am
So everything is turning on space engineers ? I like that :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 19, 2015, 03:13:52 am
Thought I might upload a few shots from my initial launches.
 I decided to start unmanned and launch using the stayputnik, usually I start with a full sized rocket and shove a command pod on for gyroscopic stabilization, but that's not very realistic so my first 20 or so launches were entirely ballistic which was rather fun, getting the nose parachute balanced is almost impossible if you're using a stayputnik due to the hacky part clipping I needed to integrate them both, but my chute-less launches were on target and perfect, unless excessive speed caused them to disintergrate, or not enough speed made them unstable. Since I have tweakscale I also started with tiny 30 cm diameter rockets and worked my way up.

I set up a camera on the runway in the hope of capturing a few launches, as I have no wheels or method of moving I had my fingers crossed that it was oriented correctly.
(http://i.imgur.com/yrYwsAh.png)
First launch predictably was just a probe stuck to a solid booster, but rescaled to 30 cm. It's got a hell of a kick considering it's mere 5kN thrust.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One camera got a nice shot of the launch 2 km away.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My next designs were 40 cm liquid fuelled, and had a parachute, they were rather unstable.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally after successfully balancing the A-2 series and then iteratively upscaling them to 1 meter, we achieved this beast.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Previous to the first B-1 launch the altitude record was 90km and distance was 157 km, this rocket achieves 120kN, half the thrust of a V2 rocket, which weighs 12 tons, but also carries a 1 ton warhead, which the B-1 does not.
The rocket achieved a height of 236 kilometres which is clearly past the 130 kilometre altitude of the atmosphere, and landed 100 km from the launch site, all ballistically.
The next version will be upscaled to full 1.2 meter size and carry an empty command pod, it should have the same weight, thrust, height, and payload as a real V-2 rocket, while also being controllable due to the gyroscopes. From here on we have a pretty standard KSP.
Edit. Since I'm trying to replicate a low tech initial research program, I've decided to use an iterative design process, as part of this my saves are numerical and the craft files contain notes about modifications and testing results. for example:
 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One major limitation is that the craft description can only hold 2 pages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 19, 2015, 09:11:19 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 18, 2015, 10:10:59 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 18, 2015, 05:41:36 pm
Now if you can use them in multiplayer, with bases and mining on other worlds, so you can have interplanetary wars... Then I'll be interested.
You can. Including having automated turrets that target the enemy team.

What mods do you need to put together to do this? Searching the Intertron has not been illuminating, so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 19, 2015, 11:51:29 pm
You need Dark Multiplayer, and BahamutD's Armory, at the minimum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 19, 2015, 11:54:12 pm
There are other multiplayer mods and other weapons mods available, but BD is one of the best of its class and so is DM.

Also, I dont think Lazor or skillful are updated, so BD may be the only real contender now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2015, 01:10:36 pm
Spoiler: I made a gunship. This thing is fun to fly around in. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: I tried to land it on a repaired VAB. it didn't stay repaired. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 20, 2015, 01:52:56 pm
Wait, I can hover with throttle controlled avionics? I need to reinstall that one.... Or does mechjeb do that too?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 20, 2015, 02:00:30 pm
You can hover without any mods at all... If you build the thing right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2015, 02:03:52 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 20, 2015, 01:52:56 pm
Wait, I can hover with throttle controlled avionics? I need to reinstall that one.... Or does mechjeb do that too?

You can set a vertical speed for it to try, as well as tell it to attempt to kill the vertical speed. The latter tends to rock back and forth a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 20, 2015, 03:01:35 pm
TCA allow for separate control between thrust and hover engines, and isn't tied to controlling capsule orientation
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2015, 09:34:08 pm
So I had issues with docking the last time I played KSP, which was the version before .90, and I'm wondering if there's a better way to assemble ships in orbit. Docking seemed completely unsuitable (as well as bugged).

[spoiler="If you're wondering, and don't remember from when I posted about it before"]
I was attempting to build a ship in orbit by launching multiple rockets and connecting them with docking ports.

1. Nacelles which I attempted to dock to the main body were not facing the same angle as the main body - they could be angled up or down, which seemed to be a problem. There didn't seem to be any easy way to make them perfectly aligned.
2. The rear module with the landing cage and rover simply wouldn't dock to the rear of the main body at all. The docking port on that was on the front of the rear module, and the one on the main body was on the rear end of it. Nothing was blocking it, and they were all facing the correct way, yet they just phased through each other and there was no magnetism. (So I attempted to send the ship without the rear module to see how well it would work, and discovered...)
3. Accelerating more than a little after docking made the combined ship explode. The docking ports, apparently, are not so solid. IIRC, even a tiny amount of thrust caused the nacelles to wobble furiously.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrRoboto75 on April 20, 2015, 10:31:45 pm
You could use multiple docking ports together for more stability and alignment.

I think there is also a mod that allows you to build struts between docked craft while they are in action.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 20, 2015, 11:45:20 pm
Considering how we don't have a server, why don't we just use a barely used one from the Dark Multiplayer Server List?  (Accessible via icon in the top left, then server list. (http://d-mp.org/))  Heck, with this we even potentially start with existing space debris.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2015, 11:53:28 pm
Release date is set for one week from today.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 21, 2015, 01:56:03 am
That's great and all but I just got Interstellar, TAC Life Support, multiple star systems, procedural parts, and a number of associated mods to almost work together without running out of ram and crashing.

So I'm going to need a couple months to build up my career enough to fly to the next system once or twice, thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 21, 2015, 03:14:38 am
I think that once 1.0 hits, the only mods left in my install will be the Near Future Technologies set (I'm counting Space Station Parts Expansion as part of that), and maybe Procedural Fairings, if only because of the customization options they provide via the fairing bases and different kinds of fairing. Everything else just seems kind of covered already. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2015, 09:22:10 am
I'm gonna go 'realism lite' for 1.0:

- snacks instead of tac
- antenna range instead of remote tech

oh, I got a server running, dmp vanilla, at
104.167.112.42

so I can learn more about managing those servers.

you can play to your heart content, but please: don't rob fuels from an object unless it's named 'refueling station or smthng'

it will live for a week as it is, then will be killed and restarted with mods on 1.0 (eventually)

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2015, 09:45:06 am
for 1.0 I'm planning to use Near Future Technologies, roverdude's whole colonization line, and TAC LS. Beyond that I probably won't use much. MAYBE Remotetech but its often more of a pain in the ass than fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2015, 10:16:23 am
Oh god.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cwNTy479F8

Scott y u so crazy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 21, 2015, 11:27:04 am
Back when I worked at burger king, we kinda had an "absurd idea contest" among crewmembers over a week.   The rules were that the idea had to be fairly absurd, but physically possible.

I was playing a lot of MS Flight Simulator then and was inspired by a mod I saw for a Shield helicarrier. (this was before the movies) So my idea was a flying burger king.  To cater to small planes like cessnas it had a small landing runway on top almost exactly like that scott's.  And it had a robotic arm deliver the food to the pilot.

After working around the design some more I figured it could work with large airliners like 747s as well by using a long arm underneath the flying king to connect and seal with one of the airliner's escape doors and deliver food en masse through a conveyer into the airliner's cabin.

Sadly the design was unjustly ruled impossible. With the supervisor claiming that there was no way to land one plane on another.  That made me sad.  But maybe I should try to make something like that in KSP to prove them wrong!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 21, 2015, 01:37:43 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 21, 2015, 11:27:04 am
With the supervisor claiming that there was no way to land one plane on another.
Tell that the the Russians, the British, the Americans and to everyone on GTA5...

Parasite fighters ho!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2015, 01:42:17 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 21, 2015, 01:37:43 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 21, 2015, 11:27:04 am
With the supervisor claiming that there was no way to land one plane on another.
Tell that the the Russians, the British, the Americans and to everyone on GTA5...

Parasite fighters ho!

"I have no use for people who learned all which is possible"- Leonard of Quirm


edit: we never were at war with eurasia
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 21, 2015, 01:47:07 pm
It's Leonard, not Leonardo :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 22, 2015, 05:46:42 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 21, 2015, 03:14:38 am
I think that once 1.0 hits, the only mods left in my install will be the Near Future Technologies set (I'm counting Space Station Parts Expansion as part of that), and maybe Procedural Fairings, if only because of the customization options they provide via the fairing bases and different kinds of fairing. Everything else just seems kind of covered already. :P
Heh, looks like they have fairings covered I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cinsnotgq8
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 22, 2015, 07:20:53 am
that video looks complicated, but they at least seems to give you a lot of flexibility on how fairings fairs
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 22, 2015, 07:01:11 pm
Was browsing through various Kerbal Space Program youtube videos.  Saw this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjpELy1xzc)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 22, 2015, 10:13:29 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 22, 2015, 07:01:11 pm
Was browsing through various Kerbal Space Program youtube videos.  Saw this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjpELy1xzc)
so inefficient....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 22, 2015, 10:29:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2015, 09:22:10 am
oh, I got a server running, dmp vanilla, at
104.167.112.42

So anyone want a minor challenge?  I was trying to improve a station I set up ([Zanzetkuken] Satellite) and things messed up...

First thing, I wound up putting the satellite in a really bad orbit for what I wanted it to eventually serve as (a refueling station).  I found this out when I tried to launch a habitation expansion to it (left it named 'Unnamed Spaceship' as it wasn't supposed to last long...).  As of current, the one way of generating thrust for the satellite is out (was an attached escape pod), and the expansion is drifting separate from its escape pod.  This situation has 4 kerbals trapped.  If someone could get the satellite into a better orbit, the habitation module near it with a way to generate some thrust, and rescue the kerbal in the basically drifting escape pod, I would be very thankful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 23, 2015, 12:58:48 am
This post makes me think DMP should add player-made contracts or something like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:02:21 am
I'm gonna get them, in 12hrs if noone rescue them earlier
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 23, 2015, 02:27:47 am
Quote from: miauw62 on April 23, 2015, 12:58:48 am
This post makes me think DMP should add player-made contracts or something like that.

People, this is a good idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 09:30:20 am
Quote from: Ispil on April 23, 2015, 09:25:07 am
So, is it worth it to re-install the many, many mods that I have to play this game, or just wait for release?
The 1.0 release is in like 4 days right? I'm just waiting myself.

My plan is to start a career in 1.0 and add in mods as they update. I know many of the modders have the 1.0 code already so most of my preferred mods will be updated pretty much immediately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 23, 2015, 10:05:44 am
Some mods should be ready at release but others will likely take a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 10:09:13 am
Quote from: BigD145 on April 23, 2015, 10:05:44 am
Some mods should be ready at release but others will likely take a couple weeks.
Isn't that what I said?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 23, 2015, 11:32:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:02:21 am
I'm gonna get them, in 12hrs if noone rescue them earlier
Posted in the wrong thread my friend :p
I'm still modding my career game until it's sufficiently challenging enough, It should take about a month to perform research/ rocket constructon, and 2-3 to upgrade any facilities after spending the initial Kerbal construction time points streatching out to about 2 years for the final research center upgrade.
Currently modding certain parts to be available at start, but I'm having trouble getting a firespitter engine to actually show up, I think advanced jet engines is disabling the default firespitter parts :/
I want a WW1 surplus biplane damnit!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 11:44:49 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 23, 2015, 11:32:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:02:21 am
I'm gonna get them, in 12hrs if noone rescue them earlier
Posted in the wrong thread my friend :p
I'm still modding my career game until it's sufficiently challenging enough, It should take about a month to perform research/ rocket constructon, and 2-3 to upgrade any facilities after spending the initial Kerbal construction time points streatching out to about 2 years for the final research center upgrade.
Currently modding certain parts to be available at start, but I'm having trouble getting a firespitter engine to actually show up, I think advanced jet engines is disabling the default firespitter parts :/
I want a WW1 surplus biplane damnit!
Will you share your KCT configs with these more realistic times?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 11:46:01 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 23, 2015, 11:32:55 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:02:21 am
I'm gonna get them, in 12hrs if noone rescue them earlier
Posted in the wrong thread my friend :p

not at all :)

Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 22, 2015, 10:29:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2015, 09:22:10 am
oh, I got a server running, dmp vanilla, at
104.167.112.42

So anyone want a minor challenge?  I was trying to improve a station I set up ([Zanzetkuken] Satellite) and things messed up...

First thing, I wound up putting the satellite in a really bad orbit for what I wanted it to eventually serve as (a refueling station).  I found this out when I tried to launch a habitation expansion to it (left it named 'Unnamed Spaceship' as it wasn't supposed to last long...).  As of current, the one way of generating thrust for the satellite is out (was an attached escape pod), and the expansion is drifting separate from its escape pod.  This situation has 4 kerbals trapped.  If someone could get the satellite into a better orbit, the habitation module near it with a way to generate some thrust, and rescue the kerbal in the basically drifting escape pod, I would be very thankful.


gonna try to get them... nao!


.... some time later


attempt #1: failed linkage between booster and fuel tank, engine blown
attempt #2: booster separatron blast away ascent engine
attempt #3: moved separatron around, tank pushed against main engine
attempt #4: noticed I started so far with the wrong clampotron
attempt #5: more separatron, separatron blasted away top tank, engine went trough the rest of the ship

... more time later

attempt #9: reached space. turned main engine off and tried circularizing with nuclears, but those exploded the wider ascent section, didn't add enough dv to complete all maneuvers


... even more time later

attempt #15: that thing I need to dock with... orbits the other way around
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 23, 2015, 12:57:14 pm
How many Kerbals did you lose?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 01:00:44 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 23, 2015, 12:57:14 pm
How many Kerbals did you lose?

reentered all of them. parts and money? countless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 23, 2015, 01:23:11 pm
Ha, oops :p
The biplane works! It exploded because I set the engine max temp to 1000 without lowering the heat output :s.
Next I'm going to lower to start whatever parts I need to make a model T ford, my entry level space center is going to be rather interesting :p.
The main changes I made was setting KCT_timesettings.cfg to:
Code: [Select]
OverallMultiplier = 5
BuildEffect = 1
InventoryEffect = 100
ReconditioningEffect = 864
MaxReconditioning = 4320000
RolloutReconSplit = 0.09
NodeModifier = 1Then KCT_formulas.cfg to:
Code: [Select]
KCT_FormulaSettings
{
NodeFormula = 2+[R]*(([N]*0.2)+1) / 864000
UpgradeFundsFormula = min(2^([N]+4) * 1000, 1024000)
UpgradeScienceFormula = min(2^([N]+2) * 1.0, 512)
ResearchFormula = 2+[R]*([N]*0.5)/864000
EffectivePartFormula = min([C]/([I] + ([B]*([U]+1))), [C])
ProceduralPartFormula = (([C]-[A]) + ([A]*10/max([I],1))) / max([B]*([U]+1),1)
BPFormula = ([E]^(1/2))*2000*[O]
KSCUpgradeFormula = ([C]^(1/2))*1000*[O]
ReconditioningFormula = min([M]*[E], [X])
BuildRateFormula = (([I]+1)*0.02*([L]+[R]+1)*[N] + max(0.1-[I], 0))*sign(2*[L]-[I]+1)
}The basic effect is multiplying building points by 5 and then drastically reducing the building, research and upgrade speeds. then severe nerfing to the effect of individual upgrades. But I also factored in speed increases for upgraded facilities.
Research no longer doubles for every extra level but is a basic 20% increase over what you start with, then multiplied 2, 3, or 4 depending on the research center level. It should scale fairly well, the first few researches will take a month but by the time you hit the 10 times more costly researches you should have significantly more points in and have upgraded your center.
For vehicle construction it's been severely reduced but once again it now factors in both upgrade of the VAB and the research facility, with both upgraded you'll have 5 times more construction speed.
The reconditioning/rollout formula has been changed so that theres a maximum 4 days to roll out a 1000 ton vessel, a standard 100 ton lift vehicle should take around 5 hours. I envision rollout to also count fuelling and last minute testing. Recovering an entire unlaunched rocket and rebuilding it from the parts requires about 10% of the time, I figure you should have to retest the damn thing before relaunch, it seem realistically though reprepping doesn't seem to cost any funds, maybe lowering the inventory effect a little should factor in the cost of refurbishment?
And finally the amount of research you get for building rockets is severely reduced.
If at the start you put 10 points into the VAB and, 3 into research(nodes) 2 into development(science for construction) making a 6000 dollar 15 ton rocket at the start takes 30 days and yields a mere 1.8 science, researching basic rocketry would take 15 days and General rocketry 60 days. Upgrading the launch pad will take a month and the VAB would take 2 months.
Making a 2000 ton rocket would take a hellishly long time but by the time you have everything upgraded it should be pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:53:21 pm
...

attempt #37: rescued the stranded kerbal. went as far as to be verrry close to the station with a tug and enough dv to move the station anywhere I please.

however.

science lab doesn't count as command module, and I put the small docking port behind the command pod.

feck.

situation as of now:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


fuel is there. someone needs to get up there with a small satellite, dock to the station on the other side, and drive the station to the tug. or use a claw to grab the tug and force it up to the station

I'll leave there the command pod. it has fuel to reentry on its own, but I'll leave them there as backup

104.167.112.42 if anyone wants to continue rescue operations, I'm out for now :P

to match the orbit follow the 200° mark, more or less: it is eastward

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 02:54:56 pm
Stop tempting me to play!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 23, 2015, 02:58:33 pm
successful intercept in just three maneuver?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
If forsaken managed to connect the module properly, we should have a refueling station in an orbit that only slightly deviates from the equator.  If someone can evac the kerbals from the prior two stations, then we can terminate the old station modules.  Unless someone wants to assemble them into a second/third station(s), in which case, moving them to have an orbit that can be fairly easily accessed is a thing you will want to do.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 07:06:09 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
If forsaken managed to connect the module properly, we should have a refueling station in an orbit that only slightly deviates from the equator.  If someone can evac the kerbals from the prior two stations, then we can terminate the old station modules.  Unless someone wants to assemble them into a second/third station(s), in which case, moving them to have an orbit that can be fairly easily accessed is a thing you will want to do.
Working on it. I ran into a technical snag... aka I lost power because I had no solar panels. I'm trying again. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:07:37 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 07:06:09 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
If forsaken managed to connect the module properly, we should have a refueling station in an orbit that only slightly deviates from the equator.  If someone can evac the kerbals from the prior two stations, then we can terminate the old station modules.  Unless someone wants to assemble them into a second/third station(s), in which case, moving them to have an orbit that can be fairly easily accessed is a thing you will want to do.
Working on it. I ran into a technical snag... aka I lost power because I had no solar panels. I'm trying again. :)

Ouch.  And you were really close to establishing a connection as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 07:08:32 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:07:37 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 07:06:09 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
If forsaken managed to connect the module properly, we should have a refueling station in an orbit that only slightly deviates from the equator.  If someone can evac the kerbals from the prior two stations, then we can terminate the old station modules.  Unless someone wants to assemble them into a second/third station(s), in which case, moving them to have an orbit that can be fairly easily accessed is a thing you will want to do.
Working on it. I ran into a technical snag... aka I lost power because I had no solar panels. I'm trying again. :)

Ouch.  And you were really close to establishing a connection as well.
The second mission included solar panels. I will be successful!

And I'll probably go clean up failure station afterwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 23, 2015, 08:50:42 pm
I docked two fuel tanks to bay12 station and managed to rescue all of the kerbals at failstation1, and deorbited some of the junk.

Darkstar docked a module with a few tugs and some extra docking nodes as well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 23, 2015, 09:15:52 pm
Sounds like the multiplayer mod came along nicely :)

(boring non multiplayer stuff)
Playing career for the first time....pretty much ever.  Got two missions to survey the land above those small islands just southeast of the space center and a mission to test a jet engine.  Sounds easy.  I don't have landing gear of any kind yet so I design a plane to vertical launch and fly over there.

Except for some bloody reason the plane I make is rediculously unstable and weird haunted, the thing pitches up and down violently at 100m/s and is completely unflyable. If I do somehow keep it in the air it eventually rips itself apart.  I have sas off and the control surfaces are all straight and it just pitches up and down like it's kraken'd. (at crazy steep values too, a good 40 degrees up and down at roughly 1 hz)

Another oddity is that building the same ship in sandbox everything is fine and dandy, but the moment I build it in career the center of lift reports as someplace far left of the left wing and the center of thrust is at the end of the left wing...pointing at an angle upward.  As a bonus, as bizzare as those CoL and CoT values are they don't seem to explain the flight characteristics either.  If that center of thrust was where it says it would just constantly do backflips and always roll right... which it does not do.

So is there just something broken about career mode and low tech planes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 10:43:59 pm
Forsaken...what happened to the pod at the end of the habitation modules?  It was SUPPOSED to be there.  It was an escape pod!  Not a quick way down!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 24, 2015, 01:55:41 am
Quote from: Ispil on April 23, 2015, 11:00:47 pm
And suddenly, another mission- attach a new escape pod.

I've gotten one in orbit, "Escape Pod Mk.3".  I'd prefer to attempt to dock it myself, as I have an idea of where to put it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 24, 2015, 03:24:18 am
I believe Pilots need to level up to actually provide good stability assistance.
My biplanes keep crashing and burning, but a few managed to get temporarily airborne!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 24, 2015, 05:24:02 am
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 23, 2015, 10:43:59 pm
Forsaken...what happened to the pod at the end of the habitation modules?  It was SUPPOSED to be there.  It was an escape pod!  Not a quick way down!
No idea. Maybe someone else removed it? Did you save the design?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 24, 2015, 06:00:55 am
ehy! you two! get a room :P

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

I started this for my server so we don't mess much with the thread
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 24, 2015, 07:09:39 am
I'm pretty pumped about that last dev blog regarding how the science module has been reworked.  Didn't ever really use it previously, except for RP reasons or whatever.  Now, it sounds super useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 24, 2015, 09:15:20 am
Link?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 24, 2015, 09:18:39 am
Quote from: Japa on April 24, 2015, 09:15:20 am
Link?
http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/117031055505/devnote-tuesday-thank-you
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 25, 2015, 01:28:01 am
Bill cobbled together a stylish motor vehicle from bits lying around the junkyard.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The old stationary cameras were mounted to it so we can finally get some decent shots of our launches. All we need is for Jeb to drive it to the Launchpad.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ok maybe bill should drive.     
4 Days later (That's how long it took to rebuild with one damaged wheel due to Kerbal construction Time)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damnit Bill! Still as an engineer you should be able to....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ok, at least it's not sideways, just drive the damn thing to the launch pad, I'm sure it'll be fine.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
.... Bob launch the damn rocket.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not bad, Nice aim with the camera.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're off to a nice start. The damage to the old Model T Kord was fairly bad this time, rebuilding will take 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 25, 2015, 03:37:56 am
KSP on mac is in a worse state than expected

> Exception when loading KSP: System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'Mono.Cecil'


all mods fail to load with the same issue :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on April 25, 2015, 09:10:39 am
Why do you have a tiny command module on your car? Can a Kerbal fit in that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 25, 2015, 09:57:47 am
Quote from: Sheb on April 25, 2015, 09:10:39 am
Why do you have a tiny command module on your car? Can a Kerbal fit in that?
RP reason is "Testing a scale model of the new command module" But in reality I couldn't work out how to mod the seats so I could launch with kerbals sitting in it. So I needed a command module or something nearby for Jeb to jump out of. Oddly enough Jeb managed to cram into a .625 meter module, but once he jumped out he couldn't get back in :p
Edit: Also Tweakscale is handy for doing all kinds of things, a lot of parts can't be resized but most stock parts can be. The weight doesn't seem to scale properly when you downsize though, a .625 meter command pod still weighs almost a ton but has a quarter the internal resources.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 25, 2015, 01:16:38 pm
jump on the hype train

http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv


fairings are amazeing - otoh, aerodynamic are kinda weird, saw maneuvers that would have send any rocket into spinning explosion just be ok thanks to the magic of sas, like putting a rocket sideways at mach 4 under 20k mt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on April 25, 2015, 02:24:20 pm
woah. every 5 minutes we get something that makes me go 'wow'. I sooo want to play it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 25, 2015, 02:35:56 pm
The last time I used Tweakscale, I ended up with rockets that gave me free money when launched, but took it away if they were recovered instead of crashed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 25, 2015, 02:50:55 pm
Well, we appear to have cool dust effects now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2015, 12:33:52 am
I'm waiting for stock clouds, I'm hoping Ill be able to have them without exceeding my ram limit like I was with the astronomers pack ones.
I'm still having trouble with this damn biplane, I was starting to think that my custom engine was severely underpowered, as it produces only 12 thrust, but after finally adding mechjeb I managed to get something into the air, it's exceedingly unstable however.
Going over the Basic aircraft design with pictures (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures) post shows that I probably need to move more lift behind the center of lift. But these biplane wings always seem to drag the center of gravity and center of lift around to almost the same point no matter where I move the wings.
I'm now toying with larger tail wings which seems to fix the mass issue but there hasn't really been a noticeably significant stability increase.
I think the problem is the control surfaces, I probably have too many, set to the wrong settings, and possibly theres some issues I could fix with the Firespitter trim tool.
The sopworth camel that came with the plugin doesn't load :s.
edit: Actually the engine is broken, I just deleted it from the .craft and it's fine =D
Edit: Actually the .craft are for .24 and crash the SPH, I can view the plane though so I know what it should look like now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 04:58:24 am
Scott Manley's 1.0 preview vid makes me pretty hyped up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2015, 11:17:31 am
I found out what the problem with  my biplane was, it was too heavy. Seriously so. I wasn't really paying attention to the weight as I figured just shoving the firespitter parts together would make an effective plane right? Hell no, the plane weighed over 4 tons with each wing coming close to a ton each. For comparison a WW1 biplane weighs around 500 kilos. I found a slider on the wings that lowered their weight significantly causing the plane to shoot skywards at 600 km/s without much travel needed forwards.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 26, 2015, 11:25:52 am
The twitch stream is still going. 48 hours of 1.0 is going to get a tad samey, I imagine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2015, 11:58:13 am
3 hours till 4 hour scott manley marathon! Eh I need to sleep. Hopefully I can catch it later on.
My aircraft issues are over at least, I finally have something the right size, weight and power of a WW1 biplane, It weighs around 500 kg, is powered by a 4 power engine and has a top speed of 190 kph in level flight, stall and takeoff speed is around 70 kph.
I did have to mod one of the default firespitter parts though. 125 kilo's for a tiny structural fuselage, seriously? Sure on a bomber maybe but im building out of balsa wood and paper damnit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 12:00:22 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 26, 2015, 11:17:31 am
causing the plane to shoot skywards at 600 km/s without much travel needed forwards.

Typo or amusing bug?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 26, 2015, 12:30:15 pm
600 kp/h :s
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 26, 2015, 02:27:04 pm
Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 04:58:24 am
Scott Manley's 1.0 preview vid makes me pretty hyped up.
That, and literally everything else, yeah. The interiors of some of the parts are amazing. There's a part which holds 16 kerbals, and the IVA view looks like the inside of a commercial airliner.

By the way, in his other video he recommends reading "Ignition!" a book about the history of liquid rocket propellants. Having now read through the first third of it, I highly recommend it, it's amazing and highly entertaining. (pdf version here, since it's out of print and the author nearly 3 decades underground) (http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Explosives/Ignition.An-Informal-History-of-Liquid-Rocket-Propellants.John-D-Clark.pdf)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on April 26, 2015, 06:36:41 pm
Quote from: alway on April 26, 2015, 02:27:04 pm
Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 04:58:24 am
Scott Manley's 1.0 preview vid makes me pretty hyped up.
That, and literally everything else, yeah. The interiors of some of the parts are amazing. There's a part which holds 16 kerbals, and the IVA view looks like the inside of a commercial airliner.

By the way, in his other video he recommends reading "Ignition!" a book about the history of liquid rocket propellants. Having now read through the first third of it, I highly recommend it, it's amazing and highly entertaining. (pdf version here, since it's out of print and the author nearly 3 decades underground) (http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Explosives/Ignition.An-Informal-History-of-Liquid-Rocket-Propellants.John-D-Clark.pdf)
It definitely opens strong. It opens with pictures of rockets firing and presumable blowing up, and the first bit of writing is by Asimov. There are many, many worse ways to make a first impression.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:35:59 pm
Less than one day 1.0.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on April 26, 2015, 10:06:28 pm
Yeah definitely can't wait, unlike most people I've been ignoring all the pre-release shit talking about new features and stuffso I'm gonna be mostly blind about the lesser known changes which should be fun discovering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 26, 2015, 10:24:50 pm
Darkstar, that post needed more hype. Rilder, that is enough hype in your post.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 27, 2015, 12:20:12 am
Be careful with that hype, we don't want things getting MAGMA! level in here.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 12:25:58 am
Okay, it's officially been Monday for one hour and 23 minutes! Is it out yet?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/kspsiteservermigration.png)

So... no news then? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 12:47:23 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 12:25:58 am
Okay, it's officially been Monday for one hour and 23 minutes! Is it out yet?

Just 47 minutes, Squad is located in Mexico City, which runs on CST
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 27, 2015, 01:06:28 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 12:25:58 am
Okay, it's officially been Monday for one hour and 23 minutes! Is it out yet?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/kspsiteservermigration.png)

So... no news then? :P
Damn it.  I've been good about not refreshing that page for a whole thirty minutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 27, 2015, 01:39:51 am
They migrated so theres more bandwidth for the hordes when the release drops :p.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 01:43:46 am
wait, is it today? I was expecting it tuesday as usual!

I'm totally unprepared! need to restock frozen pizza and beers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 27, 2015, 03:46:48 am
Has anybody seen any parts in the preview videos that allow hypersonic jets? 

I keep seeing people trying to build super fast atmospheric craft, and then having them sheer apart at 1km/s due to heating.

Are there some parts, or wing edges or anything with better heat tolerance?  or is the only solution to only go fast in upper atmosphere?  I have not been watching in detail, only a little here and there.

edits:  just now watching some dude building what looks like a TIE-advanced interceptor and showing off the in-flight force vector arrows thing to show what forces are acting on the craft.  Looks pretty cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 03:50:31 am
Scott Manley showed off one of the stock aircraft and went hypersonic enough to shear as you say.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 04:39:54 am
I'll wait ferram review on that, as many subtle effects may not be implemented (wing swept drag, sound barrier, etc)

also, I really dislike the new huge wings, because they are very 'one trick only' - all other wing parts can be composed, mixed and matched, but those 747 style wings can only be used for that and they look very awkward if extended with other wing parts
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 27, 2015, 10:31:36 am
Any idea where Scot Manley's review went. There used to be a 1 hour review on YouTube, but it was replaced by a 15 minute version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 27, 2015, 11:28:04 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on April 27, 2015, 10:31:36 am
Any idea where Scot Manley's review went. There used to be a 1 hour review on YouTube, but it was replaced by a 15 minute version.
His first one, the one with the surfboard, hypersonic jet, and asteroid mining is here: http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/v/4407827 (http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/v/4407827) and also on his youtube now.
His other one where he does a sort-of-tutorial with much screwing around while his kids and dog annoy him in the background is here: http://www.twitch.tv/gogcom/v/4411625 (http://www.twitch.tv/gogcom/v/4411625)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 12:13:05 pm
1.0 just hit steam
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 12:19:32 pm
1.0 get!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 27, 2015, 12:37:09 pm
huh. no barn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2015, 12:40:09 pm
Quote from: puke on April 27, 2015, 12:37:09 pm
huh. no barn.
Why would there be a barn?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 12:42:11 pm
they were so proud of the barn, until bac9 demolished it, that is
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 27, 2015, 12:45:03 pm
They made a big point of it coming back in 1.0, having "redone it to meet its original design expectations" or something like that.  I was hoping for the barn and trailer park to be back, would have been sweet.

Tech tree is pretty cool.  Probably wont go too far into it until TAC-LS and RT are ready, but might putter around a little picking up simple low-atmosphere and suborbital contracts.  Play with aerodynamics a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: inteuniso on April 27, 2015, 12:45:12 pm
IT'S HAPPENING.

I already killed Bill. GG WP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on April 27, 2015, 01:00:51 pm
Quote from: Ispil on April 27, 2015, 12:57:30 pm
And I already broke the install.
Dangit, Ispil. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 27, 2015, 01:05:19 pm
Flying a plane around as is my tradition when playing a new version.  Definitely feel a difference from old vanilla air physics, but it feels much more forgiving than FAR.   Seems kinda like a medium between the two.  EDIT:Get a nice scary shakey effect when pushing a plane's aerodynamics to the limit.  So far failed to rip it apart with that alone though.

Like how we finally see a crew compartment IVA too.  nice detail.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 01:12:42 pm
https://youtu.be/7kTbo1wmN-w?t=46s and my ocd kicked in, they didn't retract the ladder XD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on April 27, 2015, 01:26:00 pm
*stares at clock*
Welp.  I've got a bit before I can play, but it looks like I'm going to have to catch up on everything I missed.  Soo...career mode, building revamps, experience, all that jazz.  I knew about the new thermal reheating and aerodynamic models for Deadly Reentry and FAR, but it looks like the Enhanced Navball mod is obsolete now.  I think that leaves TAC and RemoteTech as the big two, until I can get a feel for how the 1.0 models for those first two compare to the old mod experiences.  We've definitely come a long way since my first ships looked like this, though...

Spoiler: Meet my old Penguin Mk.2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Nuttycompa on April 27, 2015, 01:39:51 pm
Ohh remind me of the old day when you have to consider that @฿&?# launch tower as a factor when you design any spaceship.

Kind of miss that tower, we had a really interesting relationship together :D :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 01:44:59 pm
An observation: Airbrakes are excellent at slowing you down, even at reentry speeds. A capsule can safely reenter without a heatshield if it has some airbrakes to slow it down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 01:46:25 pm
Fancy new homepage.

Get your fancy topknot kerbals for 25% off $40.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 01:54:15 pm
Oh thank god, they put landing gear in the same R&D package as basic flight. No more JATO Komet monstrosities.

EDIT: But they didn't give any kind of fuselage or tank with jet fuel. That's the next tier up. Also, the gear are non-retractable.

Well played, Squad. Well played.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on April 27, 2015, 01:56:51 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 01:44:59 pm
An observation: Airbrakes are excellent at slowing you down, even at reentry speeds. A capsule can safely reenter without a heatshield if it has some airbrakes to slow it down.
Ah.  Don't they burn off, or do they slow you down faster than they disintegrate? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on April 27, 2015, 01:57:55 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 01:46:25 pm
Fancy new homepage.

Get your fancy topknot kerbals for 25% off $40.
I remember when it was like, $7 and used a crappy forum-based store interface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2015, 01:58:58 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 01:44:59 pm
An observation: Airbrakes are excellent at slowing you down, even at reentry speeds. A capsule can safely reenter without a heatshield if it has some airbrakes to slow it down.
Which... seems weird because they shouldn't be any more effective than a capsule's ass or a heatshield.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Bouchart on April 27, 2015, 02:00:09 pm
It's available on Gog, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 02:06:48 pm
b12 server starting as mod unlocks! http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

go vote for options, while there is still time :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 02:08:17 pm
Quote from: Culise on April 27, 2015, 01:56:51 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 01:44:59 pm
An observation: Airbrakes are excellent at slowing you down, even at reentry speeds. A capsule can safely reenter without a heatshield if it has some airbrakes to slow it down.
Ah.  Don't they burn off, or do they slow you down faster than they disintegrate? 
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2015, 01:58:58 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 27, 2015, 01:44:59 pm
An observation: Airbrakes are excellent at slowing you down, even at reentry speeds. A capsule can safely reenter without a heatshield if it has some airbrakes to slow it down.
Which... seems weird because they shouldn't be any more effective than a capsule's ass or a heatshield.
When you deploy them, they basically halt you to a stop. It may have been just the particular configuration I used though, just testing the principle. But it worked exceptionally well, so it's worth investigating.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 02:11:30 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on April 27, 2015, 01:57:55 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 01:46:25 pm
Fancy new homepage.

Get your fancy topknot kerbals for 25% off $40.
I remember when it was like, $7 and used a crappy forum-based store interface.

$8 and well worth the price.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 02:11:56 pm
Space tourism (or just suborbital flight service) missions. Interesting.

Kerbal Airways, anyone?
"Come fly the friendly skies! Sometimes, you'll even arrive in one piece!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Ozyton on April 27, 2015, 02:13:50 pm
Do you people use GoG, Steam, or the KSP website to update? I haven't transferred from the KSP web store and I want to know if their updater is functional (the last couple times I tried the 'auto updater' it... didn't work). I might redeem a steam key if their updater is still broken/bad

EDIT: I paid 18 dollars according to the KSp store, still worth every penny and more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 02:14:20 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 02:11:30 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on April 27, 2015, 01:57:55 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 01:46:25 pm
Fancy new homepage.

Get your fancy topknot kerbals for 25% off $40.
I remember when it was like, $7 and used a crappy forum-based store interface.

$8 and well worth the price.

same here

Spoiler: the original "wink wink" donation email (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 02:23:58 pm
Quote from: OzyTheSage on April 27, 2015, 02:13:50 pm
Do you people use GoG, Steam, or the KSP website to update? I haven't transferred from the KSP web store and I want to know if their updater is functional (the last couple times I tried the 'auto updater' it... didn't work). I might redeem a steam key if their updater is still broken/bad

EDIT: I paid 18 dollars according to the KSp store, still worth every penny and more.

I just go to the website and download. It's been easier to mod different versions. Today's download was the fastest it's been Day 1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2015, 02:25:52 pm
I use steam but I back up and run ksp on another drive
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 02:33:25 pm
Spoiler: when science only gives you booster (click to show/hide)


does anyone know if antenna range also blocks satellite from working when out of range, like remote tech? or is it only for transmitting science?

Spoiler: nop! not a thing wrong with it (click to show/hide)


hum, are there no asteroids no more?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 03:34:11 pm
There's an asteroid belt about Dres now, making Dres a proper dwarf planet. You probably need to upgrade your tracking station to see asteroids near Kerbin, especially since that's how it was in 0.90 IIRC.

I'm pretty sure antennae weren't changed weirdly like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 03:34:35 pm
Yeah, I think you need to upgrade your tracking station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Cthulufaic on April 27, 2015, 03:36:57 pm
HOLY FUCK THAT NEW HOMEPAGE IS SO AWESOME HOLY SHIET!
I can hardly believe that I only paid 12 smackaroos for this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on April 27, 2015, 03:45:43 pm
Think I paid 14... The price is increasing exponentially, isn't it? Couple years it'll cost you $135 and require three $45 expansion packs to play online.


I am so playing this update, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 04:07:43 pm
wow that deadly reentry is fucking hard

I tried reentering with a heat shield but screw that my ship flips over and starts facing the wrong way, destroying all of the science that I got (but leaving Valentina intact)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2015, 04:09:11 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 04:07:43 pm
wow that deadly reentry is fucking hard

I tried reentering with a heat shield but screw that my ship flips over and starts facing the wrong way, destroying all of the science that I got (but leaving Valentina intact)
Put heat shield on front AND back!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 27, 2015, 04:09:57 pm
Did you have SAS turned on or off?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on April 27, 2015, 04:12:54 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 04:07:43 pm
wow that deadly reentry is fucking hard

I tried reentering with a heat shield but screw that my ship flips over and starts facing the wrong way, destroying all of the science that I got (but leaving Valentina intact)

try deploying parachute earlier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 04:21:51 pm
What deadly re-entry? Seems rather un-deadly to me so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 04:27:44 pm
I'm playing hard (I think, I'm swimming in money and just unlocked tier 1 technologies) and so far even hard it seems to be balanced so that:

a capsule can reentry low kerbin orbit as long as it's not a vertical drop
capusule + heatshield can reentry mun/minmus orbit as long as you don't drop to low

probably things become more deadly if you reentry a heavy object that atmosphere can't slow down or from interplanetary transfer, but haven reached that level yet.



Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 27, 2015, 04:31:10 pm
SAS seems borked, atleast to me. Meaning that it likes to start spinning and oscillating the craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 04:38:46 pm
Seems to be working fine for me. I had a rocket that was spinning, but that was because I hadn't invented the LV-T45 yet, and the LV-T30 just sent it cartwheeling across the sky. (The only SAS or RCS I have is from the command pod still)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 27, 2015, 04:39:50 pm
I designed an SSTO (that came very close but failed to achieve true orbit) but forgot deadly reentry is now standard.  And the ssto had no heatshields.  I somehow managed to slow the plane down enough with simple aerobraking maneuvers during the high part of reentry that it didn't explode, didn't even have real airbrakes.  The front half of the plane WAS glowing a pretty scary red though, enough to make out the front of the plane clearly even though it was night. It's kinda cool that even without the usual reentry fireball from high speed there's still an indication that stuff is starting to get hot.

But successful reentry and landing without a heatshield, that should be an achievement or something right? I never screwed around with deadly reentry much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 05:15:31 pm
Spoiler: when you got tourists but no inline command pods (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 05:29:18 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 05:15:31 pm
Spoiler: when you got tourists but no inline command pods (click to show/hide)
"Jeb's Space Tours! The HOTTEST thing around!"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 27, 2015, 05:54:54 pm
http://www.gog.com/news/release_kerbal_space_program
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 06:13:05 pm
trolololo space program: you unlock jet engine before jet fuel tanks

also, jet engines say 'drain evenly stage by stage'

anyone knows what that means?


edit: seriously the new research tree is a mess. you can unlock 2.5 mt tanks without unlocking 1.5 to 2.5 adapters, which gets messy fast with the new aereodynamic.

in the same way, you unlock 2.5mt engines without adapters, so making them flush with the rocket is impossible.

I understand having more nodes, but this is so annoying, it's ugly ass rocket space program until you get much far in the tech tree
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 27, 2015, 06:16:12 pm
All tanks in a stage drain at once instead of top to bottom. This makes the center of mass move less during flight than it used to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 06:17:35 pm
You could always just drain the oxidizer from the LFO fuel takes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 06:34:54 pm
How do you satisfy the conditions for a tourist mission? It just says "suborbital flight" and I don't see any particular locations in the tracking center. Does that mean I just need to reach space and then bring them down again (in one piece) to achieve?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 27, 2015, 06:38:26 pm
Yep.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 06:39:40 pm
so it's a vomit comet ride
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 27, 2015, 06:40:12 pm
On my very first flight in the new version, in career mode, I blew up my rocket, very nearly reached space, and broke a multitude of speed records. Will upload pic as soon as my internet gets unfucked.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 06:58:37 pm
I'm having trouble figuring out how to pull off the tourist missions with only MkI pods. I tried setting up a rig with boosters on either side and the tourist pods on top of them. The idea was that when we started coming back down, I'd pop the chutes on their pods and eject them off to either side, and let them tumble the rest of the way down while I piloted the main pod back. But I can't seem to pull off the staging right. Not to mention even getting to 70K alt. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 27, 2015, 04:39:50 pm
I designed an SSTO (that came very close but failed to achieve true orbit) but forgot deadly reentry is now standard.  And the ssto had no heatshields.  I somehow managed to slow the plane down enough with simple aerobraking maneuvers during the high part of reentry that it didn't explode, didn't even have real airbrakes.  The front half of the plane WAS glowing a pretty scary red though, enough to make out the front of the plane clearly even though it was night. It's kinda cool that even without the usual reentry fireball from high speed there's still an indication that stuff is starting to get hot.

But successful reentry and landing without a heatshield, that should be an achievement or something right? I never screwed around with deadly reentry much.

Probably should be an achievement. I'd just be thinking "how is it going to blow up? who's gonna collect Jebs remains to put him back in the secret cloning machines?"

Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model? Because my problem with SSTOs was the very weird flight model they had, and I didn't use that realistic mod (Farnham?).
I was pretty sure cargo SSTOs could be made, yet I simply could not achieve orbit with cargo using a simplistic design. I'd have to go overboard in order to make it, so I gave up on the idea.
But maybe I'll go back and try that again with the update. I'm not that great on KSP though, I just visited Minmus/Mun after I learned about Delta-V stuff since eyeballing things with no knowledge at all started making me mad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 07:17:05 pm
I present you:

the cheesy science roller

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


20 science easy easy :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 27, 2015, 07:17:51 pm
Jeb and Val: Space tour guides.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on April 27, 2015, 07:23:29 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 07:17:05 pm
I present you:

the cheesy science roller

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


20 science easy easy :D

Slap some solar panels on that thing and see if you can roll all the way to a survey site.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 27, 2015, 07:27:41 pm
if I had them :P

nah, this is how I survey:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 27, 2015, 08:23:47 pm
My own beginning spaceplane had the worst problems with flipping.  Eventually I just put the COL waaaay in the back.  Handles horribly, but at least it can get to places.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 08:32:20 pm
The Complex Ordinance Launcher (http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/COL_Launcher)? The thing that launches mines?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 08:34:26 pm
center of lift
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 27, 2015, 08:46:16 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 27, 2015, 08:32:20 pm
The Complex Ordinance Launcher (http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/COL_Launcher)? The thing that launches mines?
Not a really good idea to have a mine launcher in the front of your aircraft, I imagine.
That does give me an idea though for storing a laser or some kind of missile in an SSTO cargo bay.  Once you get to space the rang of a laser would increase tremendously, so you wouldn't even need to be on a perfect intercept.  Unless you are aiming it manually, anyways.
I also realized a legitimate use for SSTO's outside of Kerbin.  If you can set up a mining base on Laythe, along with a science lab, you would be able to both ferry it to orbit to support other missions, or fly around to just get science.  Not sure how efficient it would be compared to other moons without an atmosphere, but it will be interesting to try.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 27, 2015, 09:30:58 pm
Quote from: Ispil on April 27, 2015, 09:20:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This might be a bit impractical.
That's nothing, with FAR and Interstellar in previous versions I've hit 800m/s at sea level without breaking apart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 27, 2015, 10:05:56 pm
Meanwhile, Im not even bothering with spaceplanes and am going straight to space carriers. Big ones. Im talking 12 NERVAs plus one of those massive NASA engines. its about 20m wide.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 27, 2015, 10:07:55 pm
Planes in general seem extremely useless in 1.0. They explode at low altitude, and at high altitude they're so low power that you might as well have not bothered.

Also, it seems they removed one of the nose cones... Actually, I think I found it. Just looks a lot different now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 10:40:25 pm
Quote from: Kanil on April 27, 2015, 10:07:55 pm
They explode at low altitude

fly slower
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 27, 2015, 10:41:06 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 04:07:43 pm
I tried reentering with a heat shield but screw that my ship flips over and starts facing the wrong way, destroying all of the science that I got (but leaving Valentina intact)

This is a problem with the heat shields right now. For some reason they are marked as physicsless so their mass is ignored, but thanks to the new aerodynamics they still affect the airflow. This makes the pod want to flip on an angle, and it gets even worse if you have parts between the pod and the shield.

To "fix" the problem you can edit the part config. The heat shields all have this line: "PhysicsSignificance = 1", which makes the part physicsless. Comment it out or delete it and the heat shields will have weight. I haven't tested extensively but with actual mass the heat shields seem to behave much more realistically. It still isn't as stable as just a pod on its own but you won't have to fight to keep your craft from flipping over and burning up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 27, 2015, 11:06:26 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 10:40:25 pm
Quote from: Kanil on April 27, 2015, 10:07:55 pm
They explode at low altitude

fly slower
Why bother?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 27, 2015, 11:47:50 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 27, 2015, 10:41:06 pm
Quote from: Putnam on April 27, 2015, 04:07:43 pm
I tried reentering with a heat shield but screw that my ship flips over and starts facing the wrong way, destroying all of the science that I got (but leaving Valentina intact)

This is a problem with the heat shields right now. For some reason they are marked as physicsless so their mass is ignored, but thanks to the new aerodynamics they still affect the airflow. This makes the pod want to flip on an angle, and it gets even worse if you have parts between the pod and the shield.

To "fix" the problem you can edit the part config. The heat shields all have this line: "PhysicsSignificance = 1", which makes the part physicsless. Comment it out or delete it and the heat shields will have weight. I haven't tested extensively but with actual mass the heat shields seem to behave much more realistically. It still isn't as stable as just a pod on its own but you won't have to fight to keep your craft from flipping over and burning up.

THANK YOU. This is the second most annoying thing I have found in this version. Top is that Kerbals still don't know what welding is and thus all my fuel tanks are not the solid block of metal they should be, but are instead a loosely strung together wobbly piece of bullshit.

Ok, that WOULD HAVE been helpful if I knew how the shit to open stupid config files. Because no one in the fucking universe ever thinks "Hey, maybe we should actually use files people can OPEN with common utilities like notepad" they think "Hey, you know what we should do? We should make a NEW file type no system has ever seen before, that way when people try to edit them their OS will go "DUR, DUR, DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRR" because FUCK those people."

EDIT: Figured it out, please excuse the rage, BFEL lost many good Kerbals to bullshit aero today
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordBucket on April 28, 2015, 12:06:09 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 27, 2015, 11:47:50 pm
Ok, that WOULD HAVE been helpful if I knew how the shit to open stupid config files. Because no one in the fucking universe ever thinks "Hey, maybe we should actually use files people can OPEN with common utilities like notepad" they think "Hey, you know what we should do? We should make a NEW file type no system has ever seen before, that way when people try to edit them their OS will go "DUR, DUR, DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRR" because FUCK those people."

It's actually a windows file association problem, not an obscure file format problem. Don't doubleclick the .cfg file. Instead, open notepad. Then open the file from within notepad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 28, 2015, 12:07:58 am
Quote from: LordBucket on April 28, 2015, 12:06:09 am
It's actually a windows file association problem, not an obscure file format problem. Don't doubleclick the .cfg file. Instead, open notepad. Then open the file from within notepad.
Ah, I actually just temporarily renamed the file to a ".txt" for the editing.  EDIT: and that MIGHT have been a bad plan. Fuck again. EDIT: fixed with super awesome smartness.

But, once again, please excuse my venting.

EDITTHELAST: YAY, first successful orbit/reentry of the campaign! Thank you nogoodnames and LordBucket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:19:13 am
Quote from: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model?

Air breating engines seem to have been nerfed hard. Previously the Turbojet could go 2200m/s at 60km pretty easily but now it seems to only be able to do 1400m/s at 20km. The Rapier didn't get hit as badly and looks like it can do 1700m/s at 25km.

Throttle now takes into account your intake air so you can no longer flame out from having the throttle fully open.

A big part of the problem seems to be that the space plane parts can't stand up to the heat stress of being a space plane. Another is that whether or not something burns up makes no sense. I keep having a Mk2 Cockpit burn up while accelerating but the Mk2 Drone Core behind it is fine despite the plane moving faster than before and it being a flat surface and having the same Max Temperature.

EDIT: Pre-Cooler intake can survive going 1660m/s under 10km. but Ram intake cannot. Ram intake has its max temperature listed as 100 degrees higher than the Pre-Cooler. Looks like space plane construction has gotten very trial and error.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2015, 01:44:50 am
rediscovering all the old tricks to get places, like burning at munrise to intercept the mun when you have no patched conics
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 28, 2015, 06:14:18 am
So the administration strategies are no longer horribly broken. Now they just aren't worth using at all. Though do note that I'm still early in the campaign, so no idea if this changes yet.

Also, now trying a Mun landing with the crap tiny landing legs. The quicksave is going to be strong with this one....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 06:22:14 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 28, 2015, 06:14:18 am
So the administration strategies are no longer horribly broken. Now they just aren't worth using at all. Though do note that I'm still early in the campaign, so no idea if this changes yet.

Also, now trying a Mun landing with the crap tiny landing legs. The quicksave is going to be strong with this one....
I dunno, I am using the one that trades rep gain for science in order to advance a bit quicker. Seems to help some.

I haven't landed on Mun yet but I did do a flyby. Was supposed to be a landing but my delta-v budget was blown by an accident en-route.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 06:26:25 am
Quote from: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:19:13 am
Quote from: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model?

Air breating engines seem to have been nerfed hard. Previously the Turbojet could go 2200m/s at 60km pretty easily but now it seems to only be able to do 1400m/s at 20km. The Rapier didn't get hit as badly and looks like it can do 1700m/s at 25km.

Throttle now takes into account your intake air so you can no longer flame out from having the throttle fully open.

A big part of the problem seems to be that the space plane parts can't stand up to the heat stress of being a space plane. Another is that whether or not something burns up makes no sense. I keep having a Mk2 Cockpit burn up while accelerating but the Mk2 Drone Core behind it is fine despite the plane moving faster than before and it being a flat surface and having the same Max Temperature.

EDIT: Pre-Cooler intake can survive going 1660m/s under 10km. but Ram intake cannot. Ram intake has its max temperature listed as 100 degrees higher than the Pre-Cooler. Looks like space plane construction has gotten very trial and error.
I think you also need to take into account how much heat the part itself actually puts out, is your ramjet intake attached to the same engine at the same throttle and altitude as the pre-cooler was?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2015, 07:56:25 am
wild bugfixes appears:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97285-KSP-v1-0-Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules-%28Release-v1-0-0-27-Apr-15%29-Misc-Utilities-%2818-Jan-15%29


well except for the chute drag fix, which is more balance than fix (but still fixes couple of things).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 08:21:25 am
If anyone (like me) was waiting for KCT and StageRecovery, there are dev builds up for 1.0 now.

http://magico13.net:8080/job/Kerbal%20Construction%20Time%20Development/
http://magico13.net:8080/job/StageRecovery%20Development/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2015, 09:21:44 am
Yay for stage recovery!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 28, 2015, 09:27:14 am
Going to wait a few weeks for mods and then try to go beyond the Mun for once. I never could get the hang of interplanetary transfers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 28, 2015, 12:24:20 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:19:13 am
Quote from: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model?

Air breating engines seem to have been nerfed hard. Previously the Turbojet could go 2200m/s at 60km pretty easily but now it seems to only be able to do 1400m/s at 20km. The Rapier didn't get hit as badly and looks like it can do 1700m/s at 25km.

Throttle now takes into account your intake air so you can no longer flame out from having the throttle fully open.

A big part of the problem seems to be that the space plane parts can't stand up to the heat stress of being a space plane. Another is that whether or not something burns up makes no sense. I keep having a Mk2 Cockpit burn up while accelerating but the Mk2 Drone Core behind it is fine despite the plane moving faster than before and it being a flat surface and having the same Max Temperature.

EDIT: Pre-Cooler intake can survive going 1660m/s under 10km. but Ram intake cannot. Ram intake has its max temperature listed as 100 degrees higher than the Pre-Cooler. Looks like space plane construction has gotten very trial and error.
Yea space planes are much harder than before.  I managed to get one into a real orbit and back again.  But just barely, ran out of oxidizer when trying to deorbit and had to deorbit using rcs.

The heat really makes things more complicated, like when you are attempting to get into orbit sometimes you have to back off on the throttle as well as nose up when yer too low for your speed or you risk blowing up the front of the plane (which I think is why the ramjets die, the frontmost parts get MUCH hotter than the ones farther back), you also need to aerobrake HARD during the high part of reentry to slow down as much as you can before getting into the thicker atmosphere.  So far I've been telling the sas to point radial during reentry to kill speed from 70km til 50km, then trying to keep my nose 10 or 20 degrees high of prograde until I'm down to 300m/s or so.  Seems to keep the plane alive without having to find some way to build in heat shields.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 28, 2015, 12:49:18 pm
Once nice thing about the new model is that you can now actually time warp while flying.  Or that might just the plane I've been using. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on April 28, 2015, 01:00:07 pm
Quote from: Greiger on April 28, 2015, 12:24:20 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:19:13 am
Quote from: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model?

Air breating engines seem to have been nerfed hard. Previously the Turbojet could go 2200m/s at 60km pretty easily but now it seems to only be able to do 1400m/s at 20km. The Rapier didn't get hit as badly and looks like it can do 1700m/s at 25km.

Throttle now takes into account your intake air so you can no longer flame out from having the throttle fully open.

A big part of the problem seems to be that the space plane parts can't stand up to the heat stress of being a space plane. Another is that whether or not something burns up makes no sense. I keep having a Mk2 Cockpit burn up while accelerating but the Mk2 Drone Core behind it is fine despite the plane moving faster than before and it being a flat surface and having the same Max Temperature.

EDIT: Pre-Cooler intake can survive going 1660m/s under 10km. but Ram intake cannot. Ram intake has its max temperature listed as 100 degrees higher than the Pre-Cooler. Looks like space plane construction has gotten very trial and error.
Yea space planes are much harder than before.  I managed to get one into a real orbit and back again.  But just barely, ran out of oxidizer when trying to deorbit and had to deorbit using rcs.

The heat really makes things more complicated, like when you are attempting to get into orbit sometimes you have to back off on the throttle as well as nose up when yer too low for your speed or you risk blowing up the front of the plane (which I think is why the ramjets die, the frontmost parts get MUCH hotter than the ones farther back), you also need to aerobrake HARD during the high part of reentry to slow down as much as you can before getting into the thicker atmosphere.  So far I've been telling the sas to point radial during reentry to kill speed from 70km til 50km, then trying to keep my nose 10 or 20 degrees high of prograde until I'm down to 300m/s or so.  Seems to keep the plane alive without having to find some way to build in heat shields.

Hmm this is interesting. But the deadly reentry now adds a whole other layer on top of all the trial and error that already ensued when trying to do some weird SSTO designs.
I still need to try the new version, but my guess is that at least it might make things a bit more intuitive, even with all the difficulty added.
Before 1.0, I could never guess what effect a new flap/wing/etc would cause.
Now at least I'll now for certain that I'm doing it wrong and that it's going to fail  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:50:32 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 06:26:25 am
I think you also need to take into account how much heat the part itself actually puts out, is your ramjet intake attached to the same engine at the same throttle and altitude as the pre-cooler was?
Throttle, altitude, speed, and part connected to were the same. Ram intake just can't handle speed as well as Pre-Cooler intake. The Engine Nacelle intake seems to work about as well as the Pre-Cooler intake too.

EDIT:1690m/s horizontal speed in atmosphere.
(http://i.imgur.com/GL8HXp5s.png) (http://imgur.com/GL8HXp5.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dx9vlCws.png) (http://imgur.com/dx9vlCw.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Bk8NHrrs.png) (http://imgur.com/Bk8NHrr.png) (http://i.imgur.com/awpbw3hs.png) (http://imgur.com/awpbw3h.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 28, 2015, 02:58:43 pm
Well that is both an accurate and Kerbal method of science.  Want to see the heat durability of an object?  Strap an engine to it and fling it through the air at hypersonic speed and see if it explodes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2015, 03:02:28 pm
the 30 part limit really restrict what you can do, and to lift it you need both pad upgrade and vab upgrade, the latter costing 450 square roots

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 03:11:01 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2015, 03:02:28 pm
the 30 part limit really restrict what you can do, and to lift it you need both pad upgrade and vab upgrade, the latter costing 450 square roots
Honestly not to hard to make though. I built a simple and mostly-recoverable rocket to exploit those new tourism contracts and made some cash as a space travel agency.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 28, 2015, 03:34:49 pm
I did the same, but after I got into orbit once, all the tourists only want to go to the mun and minmus now. I don't have waypoints (hopefully that's what "patched conics" are, though I can't afford the upgrade for them yet), have yet to succeed at getting into orbit a second time (and if I wasn't reverting I'd have drained ~100k of cash failing to do so), and my tourist revenue source has disappeared.

Most of the contracts available now that I can do are either barely profitable or not profitable at all, and my rocket that almost makes orbit costs around 28k credits, IIRC.

For example, survey on kerbin contracts, for which I have to take off from BumpyMcDeadlyRunway with a plane which includes two jet engines and a LV-T45, fly to below the survey location using just the jets, and then activate the LV-T45 and point the plane straight up to reach the designated height. I only have enough fuel to do one of them (largely owing to the 30 part limit and my lack of any better jet engines or bigger fuel tanks). The last one yielded about 1000 credits worth of profit (it probably doesn't help that I ejected the jets and their fuel tanks, but when I tried to land with them previously they and their fuel tanks exploded. But this is because they have no parachutes, because of the part limit.).

On the plus side, I was able to upgrade four of the buildings to level 2 before I achieved orbit and crippled my revenue stream.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rhodan on April 28, 2015, 04:08:17 pm
You can decline contracts without penalty as long as you haven't accepted them first. They'll get replaced with new contracts, including the occasional tourist contract. If all else fails, just keep refreshing contracts for those "test while landed at KSP" ones. With some luck, they'll let you try out a useful part you haven't unlocked yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Silent_Thunder on April 28, 2015, 04:15:30 pm
Man it just doesn't feel the same without RemoteTech, LifeSupport, and Construction Time mods. Gonna have to wait for those to update before really delving in.

That said the new reentry effects are great. Not sure if it's better or worse than Deadly Re-Entry, but at least they plugged the exploit in DR where since heat damage was per part, as long as your completely unshielded ship hit the atmosphere ass end first, the command module would usually survive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 28, 2015, 05:19:57 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 28, 2015, 03:34:49 pm
Most of the contracts available now that I can do are either barely profitable or not profitable at all, and my rocket that almost makes orbit costs around 28k credits, IIRC.

I generally try to run a half-dozen contracts at a time so as to offput the costs.  And its a case of 'I will make this work even if it takes a dozen attempts.'
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 06:09:44 pm
Quote from: Silent_Thunder on April 28, 2015, 04:15:30 pm
Man it just doesn't feel the same without RemoteTech, LifeSupport, and Construction Time mods. Gonna have to wait for those to update before really delving in.

That said the new reentry effects are great. Not sure if it's better or worse than Deadly Re-Entry, but at least they plugged the exploit in DR where since heat damage was per part, as long as your completely unshielded ship hit the atmosphere ass end first, the command module would usually survive.
http://magico13.net:8080/job/Kerbal%20Construction%20Time%20Development/
http://magico13.net:8080/job/StageRecovery%20Development/
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116790-1-0-USI-Life-Support-ALPHA-0-1-0-2015-04-27

KCT and stagerecovery have 1.0 dev builds apparently, no idea how solid they are. USI life support is a nice middle ground between snacks and TAC

Can't help you on remote tech yet. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 28, 2015, 06:11:48 pm
There's no rule that you have to actually use the runway. I tend to just taxi off to the side and use the grass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 28, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
Remote tech got rebuilt by a guy on the inovae studios forum.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 06:17:58 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 28, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
Remote tech got rebuilt by a guy on the inovae studios forum.
Link? Iz 1.0?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 28, 2015, 06:33:34 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 28, 2015, 06:11:48 pm
There's no rule that you have to actually use the runway. I tend to just taxi off to the side and use the grass.

I did that on my last flight and it was shockingly smooth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 28, 2015, 06:59:39 pm
Wait a week and most mods that matter should be updated.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 28, 2015, 07:06:46 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 06:17:58 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 28, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
Remote tech got rebuilt by a guy on the inovae studios forum.
Link? Iz 1.0?
https://forums.inovaestudios.com/t/the-kerbal-space-program-thread/527/258?u=japa
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:02 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 28, 2015, 07:06:46 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2015, 06:17:58 pm
Quote from: Japa on April 28, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
Remote tech got rebuilt by a guy on the inovae studios forum.
Link? Iz 1.0?
https://forums.inovaestudios.com/t/the-kerbal-space-program-thread/527/258?u=japa
Thanks, will test it out
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 28, 2015, 07:53:17 pm
I wonder is kOS Classic has been updated yet.
For those that care, the guy who made kOS dropped out for a while and came back a few months ago with a major update, to find that, among other things, that the spaceport closed in the interm. As a result, he released his update as kOS classic, which, among other things, works better with the new SAS system, and integrates into the IVA of the parts which have kOS screens. No idea why I am talking about it here, but here we go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on April 28, 2015, 08:36:53 pm
Took a bunch of kerbin survey missions.  If it isn't immediately obvious yet I like flying planes so they are right up my alley.  Take 2 3 parters at once and build a scout plane to take care of them. Small, pretty fast for my tech at a 250m/s cruise speed, maneuverable, and pretty much capable of taking off and landing on a dime.

Got all the air ones (though it turns out there was one that needed me to be above 18km instead of below, that one was tricky and required some tricky flying since that was just barely over the plane's flight ceiling but I got it.  Then I started doing the landing ones.  Picked up one easy enough, but I turned out undershooting the site by quite some distance.  They seem to be a lot more picky about the landed sites over the air ones.  Just ended up using the plane as a rover til I got there on the first one.

But on the second one I was trying not to undershoot the site this time.  Staying under 100 meters and going 50m/s ready to touch down the moment I see the site notice.  The sun had suddenly set, it was still bright enough to see but the plane's shadow disappeared. and I hadn't researched lights yet.  I continue flying low, figuring the ground isn't THAT hard to see, and I do a slight roll to fix my heading and immediately clip a wing off on the ground, I get the landing gear on the ground but only one side and end up rolling over into a low speed crash.  Most parts stayed intact, but disconnected from eachother.

I figure I can't be far from the site and tell Valentina to hoof it the rest of the way.  That did not work out.  I would think compasses would be standard gear because I ended up having her walk for a good hour in the wrong direction before realizing the mistake and just recovering.  That starlike object I assumed was the kerbal analog to the north star turned out to be minmus.  I now hate you minmus and everything you stand for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 28, 2015, 08:39:37 pm
Ouch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on April 28, 2015, 09:10:52 pm
It just occurred to me that you can use fairings to cover up unsightly parts of your spacecraft, and never actually eject them.

Spoiler: Off to catch some asteroids... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 11:18:43 pm
I'm surprised how fast the mods are being updated, they're going at the speed of hype.
I was planning on sticking with my heavily modded .90 game, however atmospheric and part heating is a big realism thing that no mod can add to .90 so I'll be waiting for remotetech, TAC and real solar system to be updated before starting a new serious game. Untill then I'll be running 1.0 realism lite. With default sized kerbol system, default kerbal construction time settings, snacks or another simplier life support mod, antenna range and whatever other small mods. Probably some USI colonisation ones, I want a nice looking duna base for drilling etc. On the plus size running a normal sized game will save enough ram I can add clouds and other prettiness.
Quote from: Greiger on April 28, 2015, 12:24:20 pm
Quote from: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:19:13 am
Quote from: Gabeux on April 27, 2015, 07:05:06 pm
Is it harder to make SSTOs with the new model?

Air breating engines seem to have been nerfed hard. Previously the Turbojet could go 2200m/s at 60km pretty easily but now it seems to only be able to do 1400m/s at 20km. The Rapier didn't get hit as badly and looks like it can do 1700m/s at 25km.

Throttle now takes into account your intake air so you can no longer flame out from having the throttle fully open.

A big part of the problem seems to be that the space plane parts can't stand up to the heat stress of being a space plane. Another is that whether or not something burns up makes no sense. I keep having a Mk2 Cockpit burn up while accelerating but the Mk2 Drone Core behind it is fine despite the plane moving faster than before and it being a flat surface and having the same Max Temperature.

EDIT: Pre-Cooler intake can survive going 1660m/s under 10km. but Ram intake cannot. Ram intake has its max temperature listed as 100 degrees higher than the Pre-Cooler. Looks like space plane construction has gotten very trial and error.
Yea space planes are much harder than before.  I managed to get one into a real orbit and back again.  But just barely, ran out of oxidizer when trying to deorbit and had to deorbit using rcs.

The heat really makes things more complicated, like when you are attempting to get into orbit sometimes you have to back off on the throttle as well as nose up when yer too low for your speed or you risk blowing up the front of the plane (which I think is why the ramjets die, the frontmost parts get MUCH hotter than the ones farther back), you also need to aerobrake HARD during the high part of reentry to slow down as much as you can before getting into the thicker atmosphere.  So far I've been telling the sas to point radial during reentry to kill speed from 70km til 50km, then trying to keep my nose 10 or 20 degrees high of prograde until I'm down to 300m/s or so.  Seems to keep the plane alive without having to find some way to build in heat shields.
I haven't gotten the hang of space plane re-entry yet, I either need to wait for air brakes, add extremely high altitude drogue chutes for before re-entry burn comes in, enter at a different angle, or use engines to lower re-entry speed. I have managed to return a few tourists with a suborbital flight stage consisting of a mk 1 cockpit and 2 mk 1 inline cockpit's behind it, re-entry heating would spontaneously explode the craft on any attempts to hit orbit, but it seemed to handle small suborbital hops pretty well.

Quote from: Leonon on April 28, 2015, 01:50:32 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 06:26:25 am
I think you also need to take into account how much heat the part itself actually puts out, is your ramjet intake attached to the same engine at the same throttle and altitude as the pre-cooler was?
Throttle, altitude, speed, and part connected to were the same. Ram intake just can't handle speed as well as Pre-Cooler intake. The Engine Nacelle intake seems to work about as well as the Pre-Cooler intake too.

EDIT:1690m/s horizontal speed in atmosphere.
(http://i.imgur.com/GL8HXp5s.png) (http://imgur.com/GL8HXp5.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dx9vlCws.png) (http://imgur.com/dx9vlCw.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Bk8NHrrs.png) (http://imgur.com/Bk8NHrr.png) (http://i.imgur.com/awpbw3hs.png) (http://imgur.com/awpbw3h.png)
I notice the second picture is producing more thrust, would this increase the heat output?

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 28, 2015, 03:34:49 pm
For example, survey on kerbin contracts, for which I have to take off from BumpyMcDeadlyRunway with a plane which includes two jet engines and a LV-T45, fly to below the survey location using just the jets, and then activate the LV-T45 and point the plane straight up to reach the designated height.I only have enough fuel to do one of them (largely owing to the 30 part limit and my lack of any better jet engines or bigger fuel tanks).
I've been designing my space planes horizontally in the VAB so I can flip them vertical and use the different symmetry, also because I can't make sub assemblies yet so I can shove the thing onto a launcher straight away.

Edit: getting an error about outdated mods. "firespitter core" and "aaa_toolbar" I think it's the USI freight pack :/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 29, 2015, 01:07:16 am
You can use mirror simmetry in the VAB as well, i think its bound to f or r key
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on April 29, 2015, 01:32:35 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 11:18:43 pm
I notice the second picture is producing more thrust, would this increase the heat output?
The Rapier's heat output seems pretty negligible. The only time I've had one overheat is from this mad contraption.

(http://i.imgur.com/NgXCvRXs.png) (http://imgur.com/NgXCvRX.png) (http://i.imgur.com/uIJiRJds.png) (http://imgur.com/uIJiRJd.png)

It's a slightly crazier version of the one I posted here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117480). The new drag model makes only the drag of the frontmost object count if a they're connected node to node. There seems to be some addition based on total number of parts but it's still far less drag than it would have.

Both Rapiers can run simultaneously because of the cubic octagonal strut betweem them but the lower one overheats at around 500m/s. For some reason this method lets it get a higher top speed than a single engine would.

I broke Mach 6 with an air breather.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 29, 2015, 01:37:29 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 28, 2015, 11:18:43 pm
however atmospheric and part heating is a big realism thing that no mod can add to .90

Err, Deadly Reentry?
Ever heard of it? Doesn't make heatshields physicsless and thus useless? Makes parachutes not instantly slow you down to below explodeytemps and not deployable from fucking vacuum?

Ring any bells?

Anyway, I'm wondering how Interstellar is gonna handle this update, seeing as ISRU was a thing they were doing. Probably just make the stock one accept their more realistic resources and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 29, 2015, 01:43:45 am
Karbonite still exists despite the fact that KSP's ISRU system was made by the person who makes Karbonite, so that should be fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 29, 2015, 01:57:25 am
I think what MarcAFK meant is that DR was not able to incorporate the underlying game engine changes necessary for heat transfer between parts, as well as proper radiative and compressive heating.  It just faked it.

It faked it pretty well, but it will doubtless now be able to fake it a lot better now that the engine has been updated.  I'm sure the DR guys will crank out an update with more realism than stock.  Stock is always a balance between simulation, accessibility, and fun for the masses.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 07:15:06 am
Yes, I was referring to the massive overhaul of part physics regarding heating, conduction, radiation and convection. Thus far I'm liking the heating system, but the lack of dedicated radiators is rather depressing. Solar panels are virtually useless as far as I can tell, the most significant difference seems to come to having a part directly attached to the heaviest item available. I've been testing mainsails and have found that they overheat significantly unless attached to a fuel tank, an XL girder is fairly good at taking heat from the engine but it overheats after a few minutes, adding more girders to the girder lowers it's temperature but not significantly enough to make a difference to the engine. For analysis of the effect fuel tanks have see this image:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is after about 20 minutes of burning.
The setup is this, the mainsail attached to the S3-7200 tank is the control, with mainsail putting out 180 units of heat attached to a 4.5 ton tank. The mainsail itself has a thermal mass of 4800, the tank has thermal mass of 66,871.
Right of it is a mainsail attached to an X200-8, with weight of only .5 tons this has a tenth the fuel and thermal mass, the exact number is 7430.
Behind the control is the same S3-7200 tank but with gigantor panels attached, there are 24 panels, each weighs .35 tons for a combined mass of 8.4 tons, and has a thermal mass of 540, total of 12,960. For reference this is a 19% increase on the thermal mass of the tank it is attached to.
Lastly on the back right is a mainsail attached to 2 S3-7200 tanks, I previously tested a S3-14400 and found it had exactly the same properties as 2 stacked 7200's. The tank weighs 9 tons and has thermal mass of 133,743, double the mass and double the thermal mass of the control.
The engine attached to the X200-8 slowly crept up to 1900 degrees, when it hit 1950 I throttled it back to see what difference that made, after hitting 74.5% the temperature slowly dropped to 1927.7 degrees.
We notice that compared to the control there is a 130 degree difference in the engine temp compared to the one with solar panels, the tank itself displays a similar temperature difference, note however that this is with twice the weight in panels as the fuel tank itself weighs.
Finally we see the engine attached to the double tank is 260 degrees cooler.

About half an hour after the screen shot the control engine hit 1500 degrees, testing is still ongoing but I'm very confidant that it will reach equilibrium well below 2000 degrees without needing to throttle back. Interestingly, both rear engines were barely 1000 degrees, but the one with solar panels was actually slightly cooler than the double tank setup.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 29, 2015, 07:37:58 am
That's interesting.  Mainsails used to overheat in stock under full throttle, the new system must let them radiate more out to the atmosphere than before.  You could always use girders at heatsinks, and clustered engines always got hotter than single engines -- so the basics of the current system have been in place for a while.  I'd be interested in reading exactly what they did, I haven't followed the dev notes so if they ever talked about the technical specifics I've missed it.

Career mode seems to take significantly longer now, which is nice.  I've been ferrying passengers around making some money, but not making a whole lot of research.  Parts tests and random missions seem to pay out less, which I suppose is good because research came too easily in previous versions.

It used to be that one good orbit of Kerbin and a trip to Minmus could pretty much finish out the tech tree for me, looks like I'll be able to get more mileage out of it now.  Still finding where they put some of the parts, its almost like playing a new game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 08:08:35 am
Digging around the configs I've found the rhino has been seriously nerfed, it now produces 1000 thrust, significantly down from the 2500 it previously made. Its now weaker than a mainsail, costs more, and weighs 30% more. It is more efficient at vacuum and heats up less though, but the description still mentions it being a lifting engine, which it is not as it has terrible thrust at sea level and being heavier loses out to the mainsail significantly. I of course bumped it back up to 2100 thrust and increased the heat to 200 because why not :p
Now since I have USI Kolonisation stuff installed I'm modding ore so you can't make fuel from it, that will require the URI fuel converter and liquid water. Ore will replace metallic ore in the USI stuff, also since I don't have interstellar I can't make uranium for these groovy reactors, so I'll mod uraninite to work in the reactors, also i'll change the USI nuclear engines to use uranium as well as the LH2.
I think I'll leave the enriched uranium and depleted uranium, mod something to convert uraninite or depleted uranium into enriched uranium.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2015, 08:15:52 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 08:08:35 am
Digging around the configs I've found the rhino has been seriously nerfed, it now produces 1000 thrust down from the 2500 it previously made. Its now weaker than a mainsail, costs more, and weighs 30% more. It is more efficient at vacuum and heats up less though, but the description still mentions it being a lifting engine, which it is not as it has terrible thrust at sea level and being heavier loses out to the mainsail significantly. I of course bumped it back up to 2100 thrust and increased the heat to 200 because why not :p
Now since I have USI Kolonisation stuff installed I'm modding ore so you can't make fuel from it, that will require the URI fuel converter and liquid water. Ore will replace metallic ore in the USI stuff, also since I don't have interstellar I can't make uranium for these groovy reactors, so I'll mod uraninite to work in the reactors, also i'll change the USI nuclear engines to use uranium as well as the LH2.
I think I'll leave the enriched uranium and depleted uranium, mod something to convert uraninite or depleted uranium into enriched uranium.
Will you be sharing these awesome-sounding changes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 10:37:28 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2015, 08:15:52 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 08:08:35 am
Digging around the configs I've found the rhino has been seriously nerfed, it now produces 1000 thrust down from the 2500 it previously made. Its now weaker than a mainsail, costs more, and weighs 30% more. It is more efficient at vacuum and heats up less though, but the description still mentions it being a lifting engine, which it is not as it has terrible thrust at sea level and being heavier loses out to the mainsail significantly. I of course bumped it back up to 2100 thrust and increased the heat to 200 because why not :p
Now since I have USI Kolonisation stuff installed I'm modding ore so you can't make fuel from it, that will require the URI fuel converter and liquid water. Ore will replace metallic ore in the USI stuff, also since I don't have interstellar I can't make uranium for these groovy reactors, so I'll mod uraninite to work in the reactors, also i'll change the USI nuclear engines to use uranium as well as the LH2.
I think I'll leave the enriched uranium and depleted uranium, mod something to convert uraninite or depleted uranium into enriched uranium.
Will you be sharing these awesome-sounding changes?
Will do, for the sake of not breaking stuff I'll be putting the changed parts into a separate folder, deleting the old equivalent parts would be  recommended but not entirely necessary.
I kind of forgot about the engine test stand and went off to watch 'a million ways to die in the west', so they now have all reached equilibrium.
Control; Engine= 1787.1 degrees, Tank= 1778.3
With panels; Engine = 1026.4, Tank = 1011.9, Panels = 855.9 (Panels have a 1200 degree breaking point)
Double tank; Engine = 1589.2 degrees, Tanks = 1578.1
And the 1/10th size tank; Engine at 74.5 %=  1928.5, Tank = 1925.8 , this one heated up slightly more, maybe from radiant heat as the other tanks got hot? Also the Girder underneath hit 1807 degrees and the 1x1 panel underneath that is at 1448 degrees, under this is an octo strut at 787 degrees.
I will revise my earlier dismissal of the effectiveness of solar panels, they make a significant difference, however the mass requirement is absurd.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2015, 10:39:54 am
Even easier would be to make a module manager config file for it, if you're into that. It doesn't require replacing any parts, it edits the configs at the time of launch based on what you put in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 10:42:38 am
That sounds excellent, I'll go check module manager out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 29, 2015, 11:40:17 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 10:42:38 am
That sounds excellent, I'll go check module manager out.
I use it to apply kerbal engineer and mechjeb to all command pods so I can delete the silly parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on April 29, 2015, 11:51:19 am
It should be noted that the Rhino engine is more efficient than the Mainsail in space. And does not overheat. So it's less of a "lifting" and more of a "driving" engine, unless you need a lander/lifter for airless bodies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 12:47:59 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 29, 2015, 11:51:19 am
It should be noted that the Rhino engine is more efficient than the Mainsail in space. And does not overheat. So it's less of a "lifting" and more of a "driving" engine, unless you need a lander/lifter for airless bodies.
And I just realised the power actually doubles in vacuum too. doh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 29, 2015, 01:17:38 pm
Not sure how monopropellant keeps sneaking back into my rockets... Remove it all, later find that it's back in one of the pods...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 29, 2015, 01:34:53 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 29, 2015, 01:17:38 pm
Not sure how monopropellant keeps sneaking back into my rockets... Remove it all, later find that it's back in one of the pods...
I'm now imagining a chemical symbol thing with a little mask on tiptoeing its way onto the Launchpad and stealthing into a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on April 29, 2015, 03:30:46 pm
Research (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116993-Helpful-1-0-observations?p=1870791&viewfull=1#post1870791) from the KSP forum seems to indicate that the square wing sections make the best heat radiators (at least on Kerbin.) Great info on that thread.

As for me, I am really loving how scientists can reset experiments. Here's my current science jet; a very tame flyer that is pretty easy to land. Rolls when you yaw, but that's manageable.
(http://i.imgur.com/1sXnawZ.jpg)
Do not disembark scientists during flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 29, 2015, 07:59:47 pm
1. Wouldn't that spin faster and faster until it ripped apart?
2. Basic ships? Did you see the cost?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2015, 10:02:35 pm
Brings back memories of what I did back in .18, more cans, more struts!, more asparagusegingerning!
I've been hitting a brick wall with module manager, as far as I know this should work:
Code: [Select]
@Part[MKS_DRILL_01]:Final
{
@title = MEU-500 Drill [Substrate/Uraninite]
@description = The MEU-590 pulse drill can be used to excavate Uraninite, and substrate from planetary surfaces.
 !MODULE[ModuleResourceHarvester],1 { }

}This in a file named loaddamnit.cfg inside the Umbraspaceindustries folder. I'm sure it is loading because the log mentions the file, and if I screw up the syntax I get a nice error message on load.
Facepalm because the part is named MKS_Drill_01. Caps are very sensitive :s I can't even.
I've wasted hours just trying to get a single part from MKS to load, I'm not sure what the problem is as I can successfully alter Squad's parts, I give up with module manager for now, I'll alter the parts manually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 29, 2015, 10:17:46 pm
any mod that ties the new resource overlay with the damned biome thing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 29, 2015, 11:30:17 pm
ScanSat, when it updates perhaps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 05:19:49 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 29, 2015, 10:17:46 pm
any mod that ties the new resource overlay with the damned biome thing?
Are you just trying to find specific biomes?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 30, 2015, 07:58:41 am
Yes, And land on them, mechjeb and engineer show them, but if possible I'd like to have a way to discover them with some game mechanic. Like scansat, except now we alteady have a resource display which is great and I hoped it showed biomes but it doesnt.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 30, 2015, 08:15:43 am
I have that one that gives you an alarm when you hit some science or biome thing you haven't got yet. I haven't made any use of it yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 30, 2015, 09:08:00 am
I think the resource thing actually does tell you what biome it is, alteast when it comes to what biome all that ore is in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:09:02 am
scansat really was the best way to see all of the biomes and such. I'm waiting for it as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 09:23:38 am
Rescue Kerbal in Kerbin orbit missions seem to be a great way to get money as well as new kerbonauts.

(and I developed a ship which can reliably get into orbit and to the mun or minmus - switching from lots of small fuel tanks to just a few bigger, wider ones made my rockets far more effective).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:25:19 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 09:23:38 am
Rescue Kerbal in Kerbin orbit missions seem to be a great way to get money as well as new kerbonauts.
Yep, seems to be a great way of getting new personnel since they added in a hiring cost.

I'm still amused that they just join you after rescue. Seems like they'd go back to whatever company/government put them up there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on April 30, 2015, 09:29:15 am
would you really go back to the people who left you stranded in space?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:30:33 am
Quote from: andrea on April 30, 2015, 09:29:15 am
would you really go back to the people who left you stranded in space?
Have you played this game? Getting stranded in space is like day 2 of on-the-job training. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 30, 2015, 10:21:48 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:30:33 am
Quote from: andrea on April 30, 2015, 09:29:15 am
would you really go back to the people who left you stranded in space?
Have you played this game? Getting stranded in space is like day 2 of on-the-job training. :P
So yes, apparently forsaken would indeed love you forever if you stranded him in space. Presumably he has a fetish for being stranded in large empty spaces. FREUD FREUD :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 10:24:15 am
Quote from: BFEL on April 30, 2015, 10:21:48 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:30:33 am
Quote from: andrea on April 30, 2015, 09:29:15 am
would you really go back to the people who left you stranded in space?
Have you played this game? Getting stranded in space is like day 2 of on-the-job training. :P
So yes, apparently forsaken would indeed love you forever if you stranded him in space. Presumably he has a fetish for being stranded in large empty spaces. FREUD FREUD :P
Space is awesome.

(http://i.imgur.com/Sy8Jcgxl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Sy8Jcgx)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on April 30, 2015, 11:07:00 am
I thought there was suppose to be automatic recovery of boosters and the like, yet, every time I try, I see it land safely, yet its still considered a loss. :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 11:09:03 am
Quote from: etgfrog on April 30, 2015, 11:07:00 am
I thought there was suppose to be automatic recovery of boosters and the like, yet, every time I try, I see it land safely, yet its still considered a loss. :(
There is no stage recovery in stock, at all. Anything dropped into the atmosphere is deleted once it is outside of your physics range.

There are a few mods for that though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on April 30, 2015, 11:17:11 am
Better question, how do you do flight planning? it says it gets unlocked once you upgrade both the tracking and mission control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 11:23:28 am
Quote from: etgfrog on April 30, 2015, 11:17:11 am
Better question, how do you do flight planning? it says it gets unlocked once you upgrade both the tracking and mission control.
Flight Planning = maneuver nodes

And since they fixed the patched conics you can plan a whole mission using them. I did an entire mun transfer, orbit and return just using maneuver nodes I planned out after getting to kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 01:13:23 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 11:09:03 am
Quote from: etgfrog on April 30, 2015, 11:07:00 am
I thought there was suppose to be automatic recovery of boosters and the like, yet, every time I try, I see it land safely, yet its still considered a loss. :(
There is no stage recovery in stock, at all. Anything dropped into the atmosphere is deleted once it is outside of your physics range.

There are a few mods for that though.

Even when they're landing before going out of range they still can't be recovered for any cash unless they have a core/pilot. Unless modded, of course. I should check the numbers, because either the fuel, engines, and SRBs are only half the cost of my rocket, or it's more expensive than I'm remembering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 01:24:55 pm
I have a little drone core/claw combo that I shoot into space to grab spent stages discarded in orbit and then deorbit them for recoevery. Mostly I do this at a loss of cash but I use Stagerecovery and KCT so I keep the parts themselves for reuse and it cleans up space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 03:15:37 pm
So, I'm finally getting ready to do a round trip to the Mun, after having set up a small science base there (Little dissapointed with how little science the lab produces.).  But, after thinking about how not needing to retrieve the lab made that mission a lot easier, I realized how easy it would be to launch a mission to, say, Duna. Then, with the science I get from that, I might just be able to get enough to reach for the mining extractor, which I can then use to finish up the base and set up a small portable rocket that would go around to the different biomes.  Is there any way to get science labs to produce more then a third of a science a day? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 03:21:25 pm
I haven't researched them yet, but my understanding is that you need to process science in them in order to raise their research rate, and that it is supposed to decay over time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 30, 2015, 03:33:49 pm
DMP is updated, but my server provided has issues

https://twitter.com/cloudatcost/status/593784744430608385

will keep you posted as soon as I can start it >:[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 30, 2015, 03:48:39 pm
After making my first plane of this version, gotta say that the aerodynamics are a LOT more fun now. It has the crazy speed of FAR without your plane exploding into a billion pieces from a small turn.

Hell, I was doing fucking loop-de-loops at 300m/s in a hastily thrown together low-tech thing. And I can land like a fucking boss because the landing gear has more than 2 inches of clearance.

Love this new aero (when heat-shields aren't involved :P)

Speaking of which, anyone else have heat-shields just straight up NOT DO ANYTHING? I mean, I used the fix that lets you actually point it where it needs to go and it's STILL useless. Been popping chutes at 30000 kilometers because otherwise my ship burns up and explodes while the heat shield doesn't lose a single fucking ablation point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 04:18:12 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 03:21:25 pm
I haven't researched them yet, but my understanding is that you need to process science in them in order to raise their research rate, and that it is supposed to decay over time.
I have it at nearly full science (485/500 data), which is why I'm getting .3 science versus .00185 or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 04:26:12 pm
I guess you have to wait a long time for any meaningful output then. I wonder if you get more output by putting it somewhere with a massive multiplier?

As for heat shields, I've mostly avoided using them since they've been unnecessary so far.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 30, 2015, 04:58:29 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 30, 2015, 03:48:39 pm
Speaking of which, anyone else have heat-shields just straight up NOT DO ANYTHING? I mean, I used the fix that lets you actually point it where it needs to go and it's STILL useless. Been popping chutes at 30000 kilometers because otherwise my ship burns up and explodes while the heat shield doesn't lose a single fucking ablation point.
I haven't seen anything like that. Usually my heat shields provide perfect protection for reentry unless there are parts sticking out or it isn't lined up with retrograde properly. Actually, I've been having the exact opposite problem. During ascent the heat shields act as insulators, and if you just have the 1.25m pod as your reentry vehicle the heat buildup can easily cause it to explode during a shallow ascent.

Do scientists have any experience bonuses besides better lab performance? I know it says they get a bonus to science recovery but I tested that and couldn't find any difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on April 30, 2015, 05:09:31 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on April 30, 2015, 04:58:29 pm
Quote from: BFEL on April 30, 2015, 03:48:39 pm
Speaking of which, anyone else have heat-shields just straight up NOT DO ANYTHING? I mean, I used the fix that lets you actually point it where it needs to go and it's STILL useless. Been popping chutes at 30000 kilometers because otherwise my ship burns up and explodes while the heat shield doesn't lose a single fucking ablation point.
I haven't seen anything like that. Usually my heat shields provide perfect protection for reentry unless there are parts sticking out or it isn't lined up with retrograde properly. Actually, I've been having the exact opposite problem. During ascent the heat shields act as insulators, and if you just have the 1.25m pod as your reentry vehicle the heat buildup can easily cause it to explode during a shallow ascent.
I'm guessing that like a sucking chest wound, that's just nature's way of telling you to slow down. :P If you're using SRBs, you might want to check the percent thrust you've tuned them for by right-clicking them in the VAB, and if liquid rockets, throttle back.  Mach effects on lift-off are a caution sign, and burn-ups due to atmospheric shock mean that you're definitely going too fast too soon.  Actually, I figured out that this was one of the reasons I was having problems reaching orbit; I wasn't entering my gravity turns early enough due to my memories of FAR telling me that doing this in thick atmosphere was a good way to toast my rocket.  With adjustments to the thrust on my SRBs and a mildly easier aero implementation in new-stock, I'm not having quite as many issues any more. 
((The other major reason was apparently because Isp of the engines was rebalanced at some point, but details.))

I actually must be one of the few people that didn't need the physics fix for heat ablators.  At least, not yet; I've only been using the pod and its attachments as the re-entry vehicle, EVA'ing all of the science into it before re-entry.  I did burn off a couple barometers by accident before I moved them to the top of the pod hatch, but I haven't had any pods actually flip on me yet. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 05:10:56 pm
'I think you need to level them up once first.  It will say something along the lines of "+15 analysis" Or something along those lines.  Pretty worthwhile to have them on those science missions, since they can often net you at least enough science for one more tech.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 30, 2015, 05:17:30 pm
Scientists are not supposed to provide any bonus until they reach 1-star.  I seem to remember that they could properly generate a bonus in 0.90, but I'm sorry to say that I have only yet orbited pilots and VIPs so I have no test from 1.0. 

I think they can only get up to 2-stars within the Kerbin system, after that they need to visit another body (even exiting the Kerbin SOI for a year to orbit Kerbol should count) to reach 3-stars.  Used to be that there was no effect beyond 3 stars, and no word yet that this has changed in 1.0

I read that they can also reset experiments now (where previously it required a lab) so that's a big deal.  Only needing one materials bay instead of 4.. or however many.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 pm
So, now that 1.0's out and Saint's been gone for four years, what are opinions on starting a new thread with an updated OP and whatnot?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 05:46:32 pm
I must confess to not having read the OP until now. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on April 30, 2015, 05:48:50 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 05:46:32 pm
I must confess to not having read the OP until now. :P

There's an OP?  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 30, 2015, 05:49:50 pm
I like the OP. It amuses me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 30, 2015, 05:50:27 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 05:10:56 pm
'I think you need to level them up once first.  It will say something along the lines of "+15 analysis" Or something along those lines.  Pretty worthwhile to have them on those science missions, since they can often net you at least enough science for one more tech.
I tested it with a level 1 scientist. The bonuses said something like "+5% vessel science recovery, +5% science part recovery" but as far as I could tell the scientist got as much as a pilot. I did notice the transmission values being in orange with some text about "basic analysis", but there was no difference that I could tell. It's possible the values were too low to get much of a bonus, I was just testing on the launchpad. Maybe they used to get bonus science but that was changed with the new lab functions and the text wasn't updated, I didn't play much of 0.90.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 06:00:53 pm
 Haven't been able to play the past few days due to homework, but I think stuff like crew reports and EVA get close to a 100% bonus.  Those +5s and +10s start to quickly add up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 06:24:00 pm
So is that bonus science lost forever if you science somewhere without a scientist?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on April 30, 2015, 06:28:31 pm
Ugh. I'm horrible with the new aerodynamics.
I can (for the most part) pilot a good enough rocket to orbit, but I suck at building rockets that can do that. My best method at this point is a 35k rocket that has just enough fuel to exit orbit after reaching it, and nothing else.

Seriously don't get what I'm doing wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on April 30, 2015, 06:33:08 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8TO4Ag0E
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on April 30, 2015, 06:35:10 pm
Well, yeah.
As I said, I can get a rocket into orbit.

I just can't do anything more than that on the design side.
Like, do I make a taller rocket with more engine stages+fuel? Do I branch out? Add more initial boosters? Branch out and add fins?
Basically I understand that video perfectly (well, perfectly enough), but it really only covers a very small scope for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on April 30, 2015, 06:37:26 pm
If you have to, you can try assembling rockets in space.  Send up a lander, then send up a second stage to get it to the Mun or some other planet. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 07:15:34 pm
What techs do you have so far?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aklyon on April 30, 2015, 07:51:21 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 pm
So, now that 1.0's out and Saint's been gone for four years, what are opinions on starting a new thread with an updated OP and whatnot?
We probably should.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 30, 2015, 08:04:50 pm
Quote from: Aklyon on April 30, 2015, 07:51:21 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 pm
So, now that 1.0's out and Saint's been gone for four years, what are opinions on starting a new thread with an updated OP and whatnot?
We probably should.
Who should start it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on April 30, 2015, 08:14:23 pm
I actually like the OP. Bit of a throwback to when I first saw KSP.

Spoiler: My Techs (click to show/hide)
It's actually gotten to the point where I can't really do anything profitable or research-generating. I just can't seem to figure out how to build rockets with the new aerodynamics.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 30, 2015, 08:19:04 pm
How far are you with getting to other planets? With those things unlocked, you should be able to get at least to orbit, do orbital contracts, buy an improved VAB, and then make a Mun explorer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 09:13:34 pm
That was where I got hit a difficulty cliff as well, but I got out of it, so my advice based on my experience would be:

My rockets were failing to make orbit (or coming apart entirely) until I got Fuel Systems and rebuilt them with far less fuel tanks, and an initial stage of thumper solid fuel rockets.

There are 33 research zones in KSC for a huge amount of science you can gather if you can put together a sciency rover in the spaceplane hangar and have Bob drive it around. I have yet to do this myself, and should probably get around to collecting some of it (I was lucky enough to get enough science to get Fuel Systems without having to, and then enough money to upgrade to get waypoint capability).

I believe the single most important tech you can research to improve your rockets at that point is Fuel Systems, for the Rockomax fuel tanks. The reason being that you have far fewer parts, which makes the rocket far more stable, much shorter, and seems to make it faster as well (I have read that this is due to more fuel tanks having more drag).

This is my current best rocket (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=435032476)
With solid rocket boosters removed (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=435032764) for better visibility

The engines are all from previous tiers - the fuel tanks are the biggest and smallest Rockomax tanks from Fuel Systems. (In the past I've found it easier to land and stay stable on them, but I have not attempted to land these anywhere yet)

I don't think you've said what difficulty you're playing on - for reference, I'm playing on Moderate but have been running an Unpaid Research Program at 25% since the beginning of the game, although it hasn't done a whole lot - it's only given me +1 or +2 per contract completed, so far. I think I was more lucky to get a rocket into orbit that shouldn't have been capable of it (prior to acquiring Fuel Systems).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 30, 2015, 09:55:19 pm
Rescue Kimlyn in orbit around Minmus. You have 12 years.

Well okay then. I'm glad I have so much time. Hang in there Kimlyn. I'll get to you, eventually.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 30, 2015, 11:56:17 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 30, 2015, 06:24:00 pm
So is that bonus science lost forever if you science somewhere without a scientist?

Haha, yep. 

Now you get to worry that you should avoid collecting any science until your kerbals level up to as much as possible, and you also get to delay until you have a mobile lab to cook the science in before using it.

I have to fight that OCD pretty hard.  If it helps, every time you lose some amount of opportunity cost in science points due to sub-optimal use of scientists, think of it as a little victory against the compulsion.

With just 1-star, you need to be gathering 20 science to see a 5% difference give yo even 1 point extra.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 01, 2015, 12:04:36 am
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on April 30, 2015, 06:28:31 pm
Ugh. I'm horrible with the new aerodynamics.
I can (for the most part) pilot a good enough rocket to orbit, but I suck at building rockets that can do that. My best method at this point is a 35k rocket that has just enough fuel to exit orbit after reaching it, and nothing else.

Seriously don't get what I'm doing wrong.

Just like in the old version, you're over building and going too heavy.  You can totally reach orbit with level-1 parts.  Maybe not level-0 parts (I'm sure someone could, but thats crazy).

I like how they only start you with the smallest fuel tank now, so rockets tend to be crazy wobbly things.  Build a tall rocket without much weight on the top.  Don't build it too wide.  If you use radial boosters, put nosecones on them.  Tweak solid booster throttle down to some lower percentage so they don't have to fight the atmosphere so much.

Actually, I sometimes have two boost stages -- first is the "get me off the ground" stage that burns at 100% to heft my stupid overweight rocket off the pad and get it some forward momentum.  Second is the slow burn that goes at 50% (or whatever, depending on how fat my rocket has gotten) to plow through the atmosphere at a slow steady pace.

Try to avoid seeing too much sonic effects.  If you have re-entery effects on launch, it is definitely too fast.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 01, 2015, 01:14:51 am
New dv requirement for orbit are way smaller, you can get there with 2.7k dv, by turning early

And by early I mean starting a 2k and reaching 10 deg inclination at 35k, stayng there till ap is 100K
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2015, 01:42:15 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 01, 2015, 01:14:51 am
New dv requirement for orbit are way smaller, you can get there with 2.7k dv, by turning early

And by early I mean starting a 2k and reaching 10 deg inclination at 35k, stayng there till ap is 100K
Good luck having enough control to actually do that without flipping though :P

Personally there are two general ways I get myself to orbit. Either the "Kickback" boosters which are fucking amazing, or asparagus stuff. I am woefully inefficient but I get the job(s) done. BFEL tends to just go straight up and then burn sideways. Tried to learn gravity turns, but aero always slaps that idea away.

And once you get the "Twin-Boar" all fucking bets are off because that shit was super efficient, powerful AND could be used asparagus. It's gotten nerfed a little in this version, but I THINK it should still be good.

This is why I take any stupid contract that gets me an experimental version of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 02:03:20 am
Yeah, owing to the crazy flipping whenever I tried to tilt seemingly at all below, like, 50km or so, I just burn straight up until 90 or 100km and then turn sideways.

Seems like I used to be able to turn at 70 and stay up there, but I was probably using more engines.

I've probably also been losing some dV to drag because I thought solid rockets were locked to 100% thrust in the factory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on May 01, 2015, 02:30:59 am
Alright. I think I made a non-horrible rocket. I was able to get it to a 70k/100k orbit and deorbit it by using all the fuel in its test flight. The deorbit may of not been complete, but the atmosphere took care of the rest.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
25.5k, and it can hold 2 passengers! And tons of science!
Now to add 30k of engines, fuel, and fins to it so it can do a mun flyby.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 02:49:37 am
Hmm. Testing the rocket I linked to pictures of earlier with the solid rockets set to on 50.5% thrust instead of 100% resulted in a rocket that didn't get the wind effects from the solid rockets and got about 1 km higher before they ran out of fuel, but but was travelling significantly slower at that time. Ultimately, I presume as a result of the lower velocity imparted by the solid rockets, the second stage (the LV-T45) ran out of fuel at 100km. Normally it can reach 100km and then have a bunch left over. (Both tests were executed with a small amount of tilt at around 15km)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 01, 2015, 02:52:20 am
fiddle with it a little, maybe aim for 75%.  I'm certainly not an expert, especially now that things have changed a bit.  I had no idea that you could start an aggressive turn as low as 20K... though I guess it depends on your speed at the time...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 03:16:47 am
I only tilted over to the first tick mark (Appears to be labelled 80 degrees on the navball), and stayed there until I hit 100km. I wouldn't call that aggressive. (And that height is mostly because when I turned to 0 or 10 degrees at 80km, I was falling back into the atmosphere, and it was still sometimes happening if I turned at 90km, although I'm not sure why only "sometimes.")
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 01, 2015, 03:46:58 am
I agree that this is a good time for a new OP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rhodan on May 01, 2015, 03:52:42 am
The key to a gravity turn is to turn slightly as soon as you take off, then keep turning while making sure your heading never strays far from the prograde marker. If you still tumble, add some fins. If you keep getting pushed back straight up, remove some fins. Scott Manley did a video on it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8TO4Ag0E)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 01, 2015, 05:40:37 am
Yeah, you can be way more aggressive with the atmosphere now.  I just flew four kerbals around the mun to get them some experience, and barely had the DV for the return trip.

I was worried about heat, so I made my Periapsis about 40K for the lowest speed aerobraking I thought I could manage.

I've actually been around Kerbin orbit 4 times now, passing through Atmos at 40K each time bleeding a little bit more velocity each time.  In previous versions the atmosphere would have been dense enough to drag me down on the fist pass at that height.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vicomt on May 01, 2015, 06:41:25 am
There's quite a bit of discussion going on over at the KSP forums about what's the best ascent profile. Current thinking now is that you should aim to maximise velocity as soon as you lose air drag. This basically means agressively turning from launch until you're above the worst of the thick air (which is now at about 30-35km). At that point you should be more or less horizontal and pouring all power into getting up to orbital velocity, leaving your Apoapsis to rise naturally with velocity, rather than aiming to get to an Ap of 70-75km (or 100km or whatever you want) and then turning to increase velocity.

so...

from launch, go to 5-10 degrees very quickly
once up to about 10km, turn as hard as your vessel will cope with, aiming for (just above?) horizontal at 35km
keep burning at that angle until you reach desired Ap, then coast
circularize at Ap.

I've been using a similar profile in FAR for a while and although new-stock-aero is similar, there are some differences, hence the horizontal at 35km.

YMMV ;)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on May 01, 2015, 06:44:27 am
I've been having a lot of problems keeping my rocket stable when going from solid to liquid fuel stage in this version. Maybe it's pilot skill? I usually still manage to regain control but it's kinda crazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on May 01, 2015, 07:06:59 am
How powerful do your engines have to be until you can toe the earth?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 01, 2015, 07:22:17 am
Depends on how far/quickly you want to tow it.

Quote from: puke on May 01, 2015, 12:04:36 am
Maybe not level-0 parts (I'm sure someone could, but thats crazy).
I've tried and I'm almost certain it's impossible, at least without upgrading the VAB and launchpad. You could maybe get suborbital if you managed to clip SRBs into each other so they act as explosive staging devices without interfering with thrust. I was able to get just above 20km before giving up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2015, 07:23:23 am
Gah, tried to check in on Interstellar to see how close it was to 1.0 compatibility and I have just no fucking idea. There's like 3 different threads now all with different versions of the mod. There's KSP Interstellar, KSP Interstellar EXTENDED, KSP Interstellar Cap Something Something Remembrance, the list goes on.
And they all recommend looking at each other for more up to date stuff or whatnot, in some recursive clusterfuck.

The "Extended" version looked promising, but it seems to require like 5 other mods to run, whereas the original was an all-in-one deal. Ugh, this is gonna give me a headache.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2015, 07:43:18 am
Quote from: Neonivek on May 01, 2015, 07:06:59 am
How powerful do your engines have to be until you can toe the earth?
Unfortunately you can't, the planets are on rails and not movable.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2015, 10:05:17 am
Why oh why did they split up the Explore missions for the Mun and Minmus? Didn't do it for the planets apparently, just takes up extra contracts I coulda filled with something else and it made my first Minmus mission CRAZY overengineered.

Also, Minmus missions should appear before Mun ones, seeing how much easier it is to get there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 01, 2015, 10:23:47 am
I think the lore for minimus might state that they dident really konw about it until they got to space, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 01, 2015, 10:27:06 am
Yea and since the mun is closer it would probably generate some false bug reports from newbies who don't know closer does not necessarily mean easier.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 10:30:45 am
I completed my first Explore Mun contract, but the game seems to have skipped Explore Minmus and gone straight to Explore Duna.

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2015, 10:34:35 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 10:30:45 am
I completed my first Explore Mun contract, but the game seems to have skipped Explore Minmus and gone straight to Explore Duna.

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS
It may show up later, but did you go to Minmus SOI at any point?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 01, 2015, 10:42:51 am
You always get rewards for visiting planets, even if you don't have a specific contract. The contracts show up infrequently and add an extra reward to prod you...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on May 01, 2015, 11:31:29 am
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 10:30:45 am
I completed my first Explore Mun contract, but the game seems to have skipped Explore Minmus and gone straight to Explore Duna.

I have explore Ike after explore Mun, but there's still plenty of contracts to transmit/return science or build bases on Minimus, so I'm not really complaining. I'm playing on a lower difficulty anyway, so its not like money is an issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 01, 2015, 11:45:00 am
1.01 patch is out.
Spoiler: changelog (click to show/hide)

Some of these changes are terrifying. Like parachutes being able to burn off.
EDIT: Yep....that's going to be a problem. Gonna have to rely on atmospheric braking and deploy at much lower altitudes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 12:11:17 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 01, 2015, 11:45:00 am
1.01 patch is out.
Spoiler: changelog (click to show/hide)

Some of these changes are terrifying. Like parachutes being able to burn off.
EDIT: Yep....that's going to be a problem. Gonna have to rely on atmospheric braking and deploy at much lower altitudes.
Sexcellent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg (http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg)
If I have to do these in order....I hate you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2015, 12:23:48 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg (http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg)
If I have to do these in order....I hate you.
You can do them in any order. They tick off as you complete them I believe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 01, 2015, 12:50:28 pm
Quote
* Doing science at the flagPOLe, the north POLe, or the south POLe, will no longer mark Pol as visited with the progress tracker.
hehehehe
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 01, 2015, 01:55:47 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg (http://www.dropbox.com/s/2jyyrqyxqfb9yn0/tour.jpg)
If I have to do these in order....I hate you.
"Suborbital flight on the Sun", yeah... something tells me your pilots aren't getting paid enough to put up with this .
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 01, 2015, 02:09:14 pm
Well maybe with enough heat shields....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 01, 2015, 02:20:50 pm
Oh yeah, you're right.  The "Explore this.." contracts don't seem to work in the same way anymore.

I can confirm that Level 1 scientists are currently not providing a bonus.  Just brought Bob and 5 tourists on a trip around Kerbin / Mun / Minmus, each one needed flyby, suborbital, and orbit.  That was a pretty fancy tour without a skilled pilot.

Of note is that orbits do not need to be a complete orbit, you just need to be in SOI at orbital altitude with a valid orbital trajectory.  Same with Suborbital, all you need to do is sit at Apoapsis and lower your PA below the surface until it registers the trajectory, and then raise it back up.

And THANK HEAVENS I pulled off that contract before they turned on parachute burning.  Haha!  It's cheap, but I'll take it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 02:29:59 pm
> Made physics-less part mass effect KB mass value.

> mass effect

What.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 01, 2015, 02:44:15 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 02:29:59 pm
> Made physics-less part mass effect KB mass value.

> mass effect

What.


The mass now effects (which is a positive-change variation of "affects") the KB mass value.

A better question would be "What is the "KB" in "KB mass value"?".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 03:15:43 pm
...Okay, so apparently there's also a 1.0.2 patch which fixes a couple of additional bugs, but I can't even get 1.0.1 because the patcher just says some stuff about "file not found" and then does nothing. Is the update not for the non-steam version yet or something?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 03:20:35 pm
You're not using the steam version? Steam patches automagically!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 03:29:17 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 01, 2015, 03:20:35 pm
You're not using the steam version? Steam patches automagically!
I've been playing the game since before I actually understood what Steam was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 01, 2015, 03:39:54 pm
Well I went back to that Tier 0 ship I was working on and managed to get it up to over 31km, but that appears to be the limit unless I figure out a better way to get rid of spent stages. As it is now, I have two SRBs attached to the side of each stage to burn it off, which naturally takes up a lot of precious mass.

Also, the new thermal warning thing is kind of obnoxious and I can't find a way to turn it off. They didn't include an option in the 1.0.2 patch by any chance, did they?

Edit: Nevermind, it's F10 to toggle.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 01, 2015, 03:42:29 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 03:15:43 pm
...Okay, so apparently there's also a 1.0.2 patch which fixes a couple of additional bugs, but I can't even get 1.0.1 because the patcher just says some stuff about "file not found" and then does nothing. Is the update not for the non-steam version yet or something?
It appears that 1.0.1 is on their website, so you could probably download it there. 'course that's not 1.0.2.

As for the patcher itself, I don't recall that ever really working for me...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on May 01, 2015, 04:42:59 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 01, 2015, 11:45:00 am
Some of these changes are terrifying. Like parachutes being able to burn off.
EDIT: Yep....that's going to be a problem. Gonna have to rely on atmospheric braking and deploy at much lower altitudes.

Yeah that's certainly gonna be an issue with some of the aerodynamic problems I had with trying to re-enter anything more than a heatshielded pod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2015, 04:44:06 pm
Quote from: Rilder on May 01, 2015, 04:42:59 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 01, 2015, 11:45:00 am
Some of these changes are terrifying. Like parachutes being able to burn off.
EDIT: Yep....that's going to be a problem. Gonna have to rely on atmospheric braking and deploy at much lower altitudes.

Yeah that's certainly gonna be an issue with some of the aerodynamic problems I had with trying to re-enter anything more than a heatshielded pod.
I have had a lot of success dropping craft back in using an engine as a heatshield as well. Some outer equipment burned off but they survived just fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 04:53:13 pm
Quote from: Kanil on May 01, 2015, 03:42:29 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 03:15:43 pm
...Okay, so apparently there's also a 1.0.2 patch which fixes a couple of additional bugs, but I can't even get 1.0.1 because the patcher just says some stuff about "file not found" and then does nothing. Is the update not for the non-steam version yet or something?
It appears that 1.0.1 is on their website, so you could probably download it there. 'course that's not 1.0.2.

As for the patcher itself, I don't recall that ever really working for me...
It's always worked for me, except for since 1.0 was released. Probably has something to do with the server migration.

Also, I've already downloaded 1.0 from scratch this month, I can't afford to do the same for 1.0.1 because it'll use too much of my data cap.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 05:44:37 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 04:53:13 pm
Quote from: Kanil on May 01, 2015, 03:42:29 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 01, 2015, 03:15:43 pm
...Okay, so apparently there's also a 1.0.2 patch which fixes a couple of additional bugs, but I can't even get 1.0.1 because the patcher just says some stuff about "file not found" and then does nothing. Is the update not for the non-steam version yet or something?
It appears that 1.0.1 is on their website, so you could probably download it there. 'course that's not 1.0.2.

As for the patcher itself, I don't recall that ever really working for me...
It's always worked for me, except for since 1.0 was released. Probably has something to do with the server migration.

Also, I've already downloaded 1.0 from scratch this month, I can't afford to do the same for 1.0.1 because it'll use too much of my data cap.

1.0.2 is on the ksp website. Half a GB is a lot for some people. Most of the changes are probably just in the exe, which is small. I'd help you if I could but that would be redistributing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on May 01, 2015, 05:52:07 pm
If you do currently use steam, I wonder if you could get hold of a steam key for KSP. That would solve your future problems, but it wouldn't solve the "I don't want to go over my data limit!" unless putting your copy of KSP into the folder steam creates when you go to download it, would make steam go "Oh. Hey. You already have this. Alright, cool, I'll just patch you up!" Maybe if you did that and told it to verify the integrity of the steam cache or whatever it's called?

Here:
Quote
Q. Does everybody get a Steam Key?
A. No, only customers who bought the game before it was available on Steam, the deadline is March 20th 2013 at 1:00 pm GMT -6:00

If you qualify, then see the below.

Q. How do I go about Transferring my copy of KSP to Steam?
A. You’ll need to log into your store profile page, scroll down to where your profile shows the option to download KSP and click on “Optional Steam Transfer”
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 05:56:41 pm
Once you transfer to Steam, that's it. There is no going back. Sometimes Steam games just download everything, not just what changes in a patch.

Looking through the zip from the ksp site, most of the data has been changed/recompiled. The timestamps on a good 400+MB's of files are for May 1st.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 01, 2015, 05:58:47 pm
Yeah, that does happen sometimes. KSP has zero DRM on steam, though, so that's also nice (you can just copy+paste it to elsewhere on the computer, uninstall steam and still play it)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 01, 2015, 09:16:27 pm
I'm not sure if I suck or not, but I'm actually having trouble making a ship to go to the Mun and land and return. I need maybe 1.5k more dV but I just can't manage to fit that onto my ship :x My techs are all undrr-90 science ones except the fuel line one.

I can do flybys of the moon though!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 01, 2015, 09:20:48 pm
Which VAB do you have?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 01, 2015, 09:24:34 pm
255 part.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on May 01, 2015, 09:26:46 pm
Quote from: Skyrunner on May 01, 2015, 09:16:27 pm
I'm not sure if I suck or not, but I'm actually having trouble making a ship to go to the Mun and land and return. I need maybe 1.5k more dV but I just can't manage to fit that onto my ship :x My techs are all undrr-90 science ones except the fuel line one.

I can do flybys of the moon though!

I had most of the next tier parts before I did a land-return from the Mun. I got enough science with Mun and Minimus flybys, as well as landing some unmanned probes on either body.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on May 01, 2015, 09:28:52 pm
Seriously why does my ship even with SAS on suddenly become oriented towards retrograde and with massive pendulum swings around where I can't re-orient anything and die terribly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 01, 2015, 09:33:42 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on May 01, 2015, 09:28:52 pm
Seriously why does my ship even with SAS on suddenly become oriented towards retrograde and with massive pendulum swings around where I can't re-orient anything and die terribly?

It's the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 01, 2015, 09:39:30 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on May 01, 2015, 09:28:52 pm
Seriously why does my ship even with SAS on suddenly become oriented towards retrograde and with massive pendulum swings around where I can't re-orient anything and die terribly?

you're gravity turning horribly wrongly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 01, 2015, 09:46:03 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on May 01, 2015, 09:28:52 pm
Seriously why does my ship even with SAS on suddenly become oriented towards retrograde and with massive pendulum swings around where I can't re-orient anything and die terribly?

SAS is magic, but not that magic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 01, 2015, 10:38:35 pm
Your ship becomes lighter in the nose than it is in the back, and atmospheric drags flips it around if you're going too fast. Go slower, or add fins to the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 02, 2015, 12:38:21 am
This is probably off a bit but think of your ship as being like an arrow, it will want to orient itself so that the heavy part is at the front, and the part with highest drag is at the end. While an arrow has the desirable property of being designed in this way already which makes it stable, a rocket by design will start to become light at the nose, drag at the nose end will try to orient that to the back, the greater weight of the back will try to orient that towards the front.
Theres not much you can do to prevent the weight shifting, other than adding another stage or finding some way of delaying the buildup of empty tanks near the higher end of the rocket, however you can increase the drag of the back end with fins, or reduce the drag of the front end by reducing speed in the atmosphere. Going too slow however does cause some instability since theres a certain stability in maintaining a stable ballistic enertia. At least I noticed this when launching rockets with an unstabilised probe core.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 02, 2015, 01:57:22 am
I don't know what happened in 1.0.1 or 1.0.2 to cause this, but the same rocket that made it into orbit just fine yesterday (with 0.16 mass added, in 16 basic fins, to stop it from flipping over, because apparently flipping is even more likely now), is no longer able to even get above 17 km and is behaving as though it is massively heavier:

The solid rockets accelerate it about 40% as well as in 1.0, and then when the second stage activates it can't stop the velocity from dropping, as though it no longer had a TWR above 1. The masses don't look any different, though... The thrust on the engines looks the same too...

(Whether it flies straight up, or flies at a 45 degree angle seems to make no difference. It falls out of the sky either way.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 02, 2015, 03:43:27 am
Weird - I've had the exact opposite problem, and all my rockets which were finely calibrated are soaring so fast so early that they literally explode
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 02, 2015, 07:27:10 am
I am having some problems with the 'place satellite in orbit' missions. Namely, how do I check where the required longitude of ascending/descending node is, or what is the argument of periapsis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 02, 2015, 08:21:07 am
Quote from: andrea on May 02, 2015, 07:27:10 am
I am having some problems with the 'place satellite in orbit' missions. Namely, how do I check where the required longitude of ascending/descending node is, or what is the argument of periapsis.
It should show a rotating ring around the planet that visually displays the desired orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 02, 2015, 08:22:21 am
There's a blue glowy orbit in the map for them. Also the parameters are, at the very least, in the building where you accept the mission.

But personally I decided they weren't worth the small reward. "Place satellite in precise 11-12 million km polar orbit for us for less money than a Kerbal rescue mission!" No thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 02, 2015, 08:33:20 am
Now that I have the 255 part VAB, I can finally rescue Valentina from the Mun. :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 02, 2015, 08:56:05 am
Looking at the physics.cfg, drag and lift have been significantly increased since 1.0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 02, 2015, 08:59:10 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 02, 2015, 08:21:07 am
Quote from: andrea on May 02, 2015, 07:27:10 am
I am having some problems with the 'place satellite in orbit' missions. Namely, how do I check where the required longitude of ascending/descending node is, or what is the argument of periapsis.
It should show a rotating ring around the planet that visually displays the desired orbit.

it does, but  notice that ascending and descendign nodes shown will change depending on your orbit. Which is great when you align your orbital plane, less great when they are required to be in a specific place that is no longer shown. Maybe switching to another craft will work, but for now I wrote that off as a lost rocket. Not that expensive thankfully.
( or maybe the error is in the argument of periapsis? what is the argument of periapsis?)

edit: the plant flag and recover science missions seem to be a good way to get cash, however. On a recent mission I got plant flag on mun, recover science from space  near mun and recover science from mun surface at the same time. Considering the low tech involved, it was 15k+ of tidy profit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 02, 2015, 09:52:01 am
Man, be careful with rescue missions at low tech levels.  If they don't say "low orbit" they might be anywhere in the SOI.  I had a couple last night that were out past the mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 02, 2015, 12:12:41 pm
With 1.0 my heat shielded mk1 pod (3 part parachute, pod, shield) would tilt a bit and expose its top to reentry heating. With 1.0.2 it no longer does this. Without any sas it will come in fairly centered around it's trajectory and the pod is fully protected from reentry heat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 02, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Wish they had prop engines in the game natively for starter planes...seems kinda silly to have landing gear that cant retract but you have jet engines...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrewas on May 02, 2015, 12:35:52 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 02, 2015, 08:59:10 am
it does, but  notice that ascending and descendign nodes shown will change depending on your orbit. Which is great when you align your orbital plane, less great when they are required to be in a specific place that is no longer shown. Maybe switching to another craft will work, but for now I wrote that off as a lost rocket. Not that expensive thankfully.
( or maybe the error is in the argument of periapsis? what is the argument of periapsis?)

Just align with the target orbit and your nodes will be in the right place -- all they are are the points where your orbit crosses the equatorial plane. The nodes you are shown are where your orbit and the target orbit cross, which is what you need to know to get the alignment right.

Argument of periapsis is the angle between your ascending node and the periapsis. You can't actually see the ascending node, but you can compare the periapsis of your current and target orbits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 02, 2015, 12:41:59 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on May 02, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Wish they had prop engines in the game natively for starter planes...seems kinda silly to have landing gear that cant retract but you have jet engines...

Why can't you just make a pinwheel out of wing segments with rockets at the tips, like any normal person would?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 02, 2015, 01:47:56 pm
I had a rescue mission that went horribly, horribly wrong.  I decided that I could just grab the pod they were in with a claw, have the claw deorbit, and deploy parachutes to slow it down (This was before the update that killed parachutes).  Unfortunately, I forgot to put any kind of reaction wheel on it, so it would take about 30-45 seconds to turn 180 degrees. Because of this, I eventually gave up on trying to grab the pod and just flew the kerbal over and stuck it in the claw.  Turns out kerbal's have zero heat resistance, and it died at about 60,000 meters.  So then I reloaded my last save, and sent up a small rocket with a cabin.  Since the claw had parachutes, I figured I wouldn't need to put parachutes on the new craft.  Cue two hours of trying to ram the claw and get it to actually dock.  From now on I'm putting RCS thrusters on everything that docks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 02, 2015, 08:04:49 pm
I often get two rescue missions around Mun or Minmus. They could net about 400k in one mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2015, 09:49:26 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 02, 2015, 08:04:49 pm
I often get two rescue missions around Mun or Minmus. They could net about 400k in one mission.
Not to mention free personnel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 02, 2015, 09:59:39 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2015, 09:49:26 pm
Not to mention free personnel
Does anyone else find this darkly humorous?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 02, 2015, 10:19:40 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2015, 09:49:26 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 02, 2015, 08:04:49 pm
I often get two rescue missions around Mun or Minmus. They could net about 400k in one mission.
Not to mention free personnel

I know there's a naming scheme that ties the job to the kerbal, but I can't be bothered to look it up. Free random, but not really, job ahoy.
Life is like a mk1 pod. Ya nevar know what ya gonna get.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on May 02, 2015, 10:28:20 pm
Whoa, the gravimax is super useful. It not only has per-biome science in near orbit, it also has per-biome science in high orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 03, 2015, 12:40:21 am
Quote from: puke on May 02, 2015, 12:41:59 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on May 02, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Wish they had prop engines in the game natively for starter planes...seems kinda silly to have landing gear that cant retract but you have jet engines...

Why can't you just make a pinwheel out of wing segments with rockets at the tips, like any normal person would?

I guess you never saw these? Their props both worked in 0.90
http://imgur.com/a/u5qlm
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 03, 2015, 01:40:51 am
So I finally managed to land on mun with about 880 m/s DeltaV left, there was little to no room for error with the escape trajectory since escape velocity from mum is 807 m/s roughly. Took about 20 tries to finally get a trajectory to land back on kerbal only to find that I forgot to bring the science, thankfully it only took 2 more tries to get it right the second time.

Game just crashed 200 m from the ground :'(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 03, 2015, 02:39:34 am
You probably have an autosave (so you don't lose too much time). I'm not actually sure how to load the autosave, though. Haven't had to do it yet. :V

Were you seeing overheat indicators or flashing red parts on your ship during re-entry? If so, it was probably this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118658-New-Heat-System-causes-memory-leak). Pressing F10 to shut off the overheat indicators should stop it from eating all your base bass memory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 03, 2015, 05:39:50 am
My mapping satellite exploded on the launchpad immediately after loading for some reason, even though I got an identical one into space about 15 minutes before that. Weird.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 03, 2015, 07:57:53 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 03, 2015, 12:40:21 am
Quote from: puke on May 02, 2015, 12:41:59 pm
Quote from: dennislp3 on May 02, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Wish they had prop engines in the game natively for starter planes...seems kinda silly to have landing gear that cant retract but you have jet engines...

Why can't you just make a pinwheel out of wing segments with rockets at the tips, like any normal person would?
I guess you never saw these? Their props both worked in 0.90
http://imgur.com/a/u5qlm
What, how? This is the most Kerbal way of making prop powered aircraft. I think I know how the engine works, but I have no idea how they managed to get the damn thing balanced.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 03, 2015, 08:07:55 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 03, 2015, 02:39:34 am
You probably have an autosave (so you don't lose too much time). I'm not actually sure how to load the autosave, though. Haven't had to do it yet. :V

Were you seeing overheat indicators or flashing red parts on your ship during re-entry? If so, it was probably this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118658-New-Heat-System-causes-memory-leak). Pressing F10 to shut off the overheat indicators should stop it from eating all your base bass memory.

F9 loads the F5 save.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 03, 2015, 08:33:39 am
Yes that is quicksaving, but he's asking about the "autosave" text that pops up periodically.  This is writing the current game state to autosave.sfs to protect against crashes.

alt-f9 should let you load autosaves.

You can also use multiple save slots through the escape-menu.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 03, 2015, 09:20:34 am
About that: new temp gauges confirmed leaking memory and causing crashes

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118668-PSA-1-01-1-02-Temperate-Gauges-Overheating-Display-Causes-Massive-Memory-Leak
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 03, 2015, 10:19:12 am
Quote from: puke on May 03, 2015, 08:33:39 am
Yes that is quicksaving, but he's asking about the "autosave" text that pops up periodically.  This is writing the current game state to autosave.sfs to protect against crashes.

alt-f9 should let you load autosaves.

You can also use multiple save slots through the escape-menu.

If the game just up and crashes it should load the last autosave when you get back in. Using the "mod" key (ctrl for mac I think. alt for windows) along with f5 or f9 gives you access to multiple save/load states. http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Key_bindings
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on May 03, 2015, 10:35:31 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 03, 2015, 09:20:34 am
About that: new temp gauges confirmed leaking memory and causing crashes

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118668-PSA-1-01-1-02-Temperate-Gauges-Overheating-Display-Causes-Massive-Memory-Leak

Speaking of memory leaks, did they fix all the other ones? IIRC, there was memory leaks while on the landing pad and while flying in atmosphere, and having ground scatter on made both those leaks even worse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 03, 2015, 10:45:06 am
They fixed a bunch of them, but I don't know if there's a full list.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on May 03, 2015, 06:19:38 pm
Good heavens, but I just cut a Munar fly-by down to the wire.  I decided to launch a Mun fly-by mission with the TAC Life Support mod to get a feel for the delta-v in the new version (and since I didn't have the lander tech to do a proper landing), but underestimated the pilot's consumption and overestimated the supply of a Command Pod Mk.1.  As such, poor Suti Kerman almost ran out of food, water, and oxygen on the way back.  I burned every ounce of fuel and dropped my reentry vector as steep as I could in order to eke out every second I could, and she still literally ate the last crumb and drained the last drop of water less than a hundred metres above the ground. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 03, 2015, 06:31:29 pm
Quote from: Culise on May 03, 2015, 06:19:38 pm
Good heavens, but I just cut a Munar fly-by down to the wire.  I decided to launch a Mun fly-by mission with the TAC Life Support mod to get a feel for the delta-v in the new version (and since I didn't have the lander tech to do a proper landing), but underestimated the pilot's consumption and overestimated the supply of a Command Pod Mk.1.  As such, poor Suti Kerman almost ran out of food, water, and oxygen on the way back.  I burned every ounce of fuel and dropped my reentry vector as steep as I could in order to eke out every second I could, and she still literally ate the last crumb and drained the last drop of water less than a hundred metres above the ground.
Kerbals can go a fair amount of time without food or even water. Oxygen is more important, but generally the biggest issues with Life Support are Electric Charge, and Oxygen. In that order because you tend to forget EC is needed.

So yeah, as long as you get back to Kerbin without dying (there is oxygen on Kerbin) you are totally safe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on May 03, 2015, 06:34:58 pm
I would never expect a person to starve or die of thirst after less than a day of going hungry, seems like a silly overreaction  :P

More likely to die from having too steep a re-entry vector I'm sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 03, 2015, 06:54:22 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on May 03, 2015, 06:34:58 pm
I would never expect a person to starve or die of thirst after less than a day of going hungry, seems like a silly overreaction  :P

More likely to die from having too steep a re-entry vector I'm sure.

Oh? I've come in with just a mk1 pod and 1.25 heat shield straight from minmus to kerbin's poles. Punched through the atmosphere in maybe 5 seconds. I think I was more likely to die from a heart attack because the ablation was ticking down fast and I barely had time to deploy a parachute before hitting ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on May 03, 2015, 06:57:11 pm
Does that mod make the consumption of food/water slow down the lower the supply gets, to simulate rationing, or is it just constant?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on May 03, 2015, 08:16:33 pm
Man career mode is kicking my ass, I can't get enough science.  Blehh.

What's the easiest way to get science?  I just got the upgraded VAB.  No surface samples yet though.  Should I send a probe to the moon or something?  I don't have solar panels yet either...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 03, 2015, 08:30:04 pm
You can get some by building a simple rover with all your science instruments, putting a scientist in it so you can collect and reset them, and drive around your base sciencing.

There's supposedly 33 zones at KSC, although from a rover I could only find the most general of them (corresponding to the launchpad, runway, and each building, chiefly).

If you can get into orbit, there's science in low orbit as well as high orbit (far from kerbin). You can also get more by just entering mun or minmus's zone of influence without having to land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on May 03, 2015, 08:31:37 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 03, 2015, 06:54:22 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on May 03, 2015, 06:34:58 pm
I would never expect a person to starve or die of thirst after less than a day of going hungry, seems like a silly overreaction  :P

More likely to die from having too steep a re-entry vector I'm sure.

Oh? I've come in with just a mk1 pod and 1.25 heat shield straight from minmus to kerbin's poles. Punched through the atmosphere in maybe 5 seconds. I think I was more likely to die from a heart attack because the ablation was ticking down fast and I barely had time to deploy a parachute before hitting ground.
Yeah; I haven't had it from Minmus to Kerbin, but I've definitely hadn't had nearly the same concerns with stock heating as I did with Deadly Reentry, and I knew my trajectory was fairly close to safe with that.  I didn't even burn off my entire heat shield, actually, and my reentry vehicle also includes a service module which can absorb a wee bit of heat in a pinch.  I'm assured explosions make an excellent ground cushion. :P

Nice to know everything about Life Support, though; half of my concern was the margin of error for oxygen.  I know the Rule of Three outside of the game as a rule of thumb for needs for air, drink, and food, but even leaving aside whether it was modeled at all, I didn't know how well it was scaled to the game's contracted time scales; I mentioned food and drink in the initial post, but due to the supply ratios, I was down to the final update tick for oxygen as well when I hit surface and immediately recovered, and I expected in-game minutes at the very most after that ran out (since I didn't think to check beforehand if it ticked down in Kerbin's lower atmosphere or not; being told here it does is going to help a lot for future missions).  I just looked it up in the documentation, and it appears to be rather generous, actually.  You have 360 hours to resupply for food deprivation, 36 hours for water, and 2 hours for air or electricity.  I probably did go a bit far in my concern, it seems.  ^_^

Quote from: Puzzlemaker on May 03, 2015, 08:16:33 pm
Man career mode is kicking my ass, I can't get enough science.  Blehh.

What's the easiest way to get science?  I just got the upgraded VAB.  No surface samples yet though.  Should I send a probe to the moon or something?  I don't have solar panels yet either...
You're probably nowhere near it yet, but landing a Mobile Processing Lab (Advanced Exploration; 160 Science) on another world can give you massive science, apparently, which makes a decent target for bee-lining.  Building a science-buggy, loading on a scientist, and cruising around the KSC for each individual building biome can pick up a bit of science if you need to scrape up a bit, and you no longer have to worry about the Pol/Pole confusion if you do that, either.  Otherwise, I've mostly been prioritizing science unlocks, and I have a little sci-jet that my scientist flies around Kerbin as a whole to pick up biome science as needed. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 03, 2015, 08:52:47 pm
Quote from: Puzzlemaker on May 03, 2015, 08:16:33 pm
Man career mode is kicking my ass, I can't get enough science.  Blehh.

What's the easiest way to get science?  I just got the upgraded VAB.  No surface samples yet though.  Should I send a probe to the moon or something?  I don't have solar panels yet either...
Basically do the rover thing others have suggested for now. I personally would suggest you grab up the ability to do surface samples as soon as possible, because with those a good trip to Minmus with a scientist onboard can net you well over 2000 science. That trip alone unlocked half the tech tree for me :P


So my first interplanetary mission is encountering some pretty fucked issues. The craft is basically just a 3-man pod with a 2.5 meter service bay filled with materials bay, solar panels, and parachutes, strapped on top of a half-orange with attached NERVA. This is complemented somewhat by the two docked fuel tanks, each of the middling 3.75 tank. These also have mystery goo and some batteries/panels of their own.

On to the issues. First off, I quickly discovered the service bay solar panels apparently clip into the bay itself, making them impossible to retract (they are the 1x6 version) this is frustrating, but not damning. The SECOND problem is MUCH worse however. The materials bay I threw in the service bay isn't accessible to my scientist (due to the girders holding the chutes forming a cage) so it is unfortunately gonna be a one-shot deal on my trip to Duna.
Possibly MOST CONCERNING is the fact that apparently the NERVA produces so much heat radiation that it MELTED THE ABLATION OFF MY HEAT SHIELD.

This is gonna be a fun mission :P

EDIT: GAH, this would have had SO much more dv if I hadn't fucked up several aspects of this design. Particularly, I should have put a goddamn goo canister on the actual ship, instead of relying on the fuel canisters for science. Coulda dumped those fuckers a lot sooner. Speaking of those fuckers, THOSE FUCKERS. Wish I had known NERVAs only use liquid fuel WITHOUT oxidizer BEFORE I had brought all that extra undumpable weight in THOSE FUCKERS.

Mission is on its return trip, and its not ENTIRELY hopeless, as I have a return trajectory that leaves me with about 50 fuel...but it leaves me with about 50 fuel. And I melted off my heat shield several times over.
And said return trajectory didn't actually encounter Kerbin, those fuckdamn lying maneuver nodes. Time for quickload.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 03, 2015, 11:07:22 pm
You can cheat rover with two mk1 pods stuck together if you're just looking at ksc and its buildings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on May 03, 2015, 11:22:04 pm
My first Kerbal just landed on the Mun. All hope seemed lost when the Munar lander's fuel line was discovered to not have successfully attached the two fuel tanks together. The lander ran out of fuel trying to land, but Valentina Kerman got out of the lander at the last minute and was propelled 20km up by the subsequent explosion. She bravely landed on the Mun with her jetpack and successfully planted a flag at the spot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 03, 2015, 11:39:03 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 03, 2015, 08:52:47 pm
On to the issues. First off, I quickly discovered the service bay solar panels apparently clip into the bay itself, making them impossible to retract (they are the 1x6 version) this is frustrating, but not damning.
You sure it's because of clipping? The caseless solar panels can no longer be retracted. It tripped me up as well. Also, I've found you need to be careful when EVA kerbals are flying around near the panels because they can easily destroy them even if they are in their cases.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 03, 2015, 11:42:51 pm
hm...I've found my new favorite way of entering the atmosphere, and it tends to do so rather safely. You need to make sure your periapsis is 40k from kerbal, then once you reach the periapsis you should try to point downwards and essentially skim along at 40k. Doing so let me use about 300 m/s deltaV to slow down from 3500 m/s to 1800 m/s before gravity took over for the thruster. You do kind of have to be able to keep your entry spacecraft sideways to slow down via drag before you hit the harder atmosphere that will actually burn up your spacecraft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 12:30:27 am
Well, just made my first SSTO of 1.0+ after seeing about two dozen threads on the KSP forums bemoaning the death of the spaceplane. It took 5 minutes to put together, worked on the first try, looked great and broke the sound barrier at sea level. I can't say I get the complaints.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 12:31:27 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 03, 2015, 11:39:03 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 03, 2015, 08:52:47 pm
On to the issues. First off, I quickly discovered the service bay solar panels apparently clip into the bay itself, making them impossible to retract (they are the 1x6 version) this is frustrating, but not damning.
You sure it's because of clipping? The caseless solar panels can no longer be retracted. It tripped me up as well. Also, I've found you need to be careful when EVA kerbals are flying around near the panels because they can easily destroy them even if they are in their cases.
Ok, yeah this is apparently what happened then.

Also MORE UPDOOT! BFEL is trying to get everyone back despite several terrible errors that leave me with the BAREST scraps of hope. Full story in previous post.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 12:32:00 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 12:30:27 am
Well, just made my first SSTO of 1.0+ after seeing about two dozen threads on the KSP forums bemoaning the death of the spaceplane. It took 5 minutes to put together, worked on the first try, looked great and broke the sound barrier at sea level. I can't say I get the complaints.

What tech did you use?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 12:41:19 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 12:32:00 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 12:30:27 am
Well, just made my first SSTO of 1.0+ after seeing about two dozen threads on the KSP forums bemoaning the death of the spaceplane. It took 5 minutes to put together, worked on the first try, looked great and broke the sound barrier at sea level. I can't say I get the complaints.

What tech did you use?
Sandbox with MK2 parts and Rapiers. I may try making a low tech version in my career game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 04, 2015, 12:44:31 am
You can't fold caseless solar panels anymore?? Noooooo

More seriously it does give you a reason to actually use the ones with a case despite the extra weight, now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 12:51:48 am
You alteady had a reason - survivability - except that whole aspect of the game is borked
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 01:05:10 am
Ok, got a encounter with Kerbin, and then had nowhere near the fuel required for slowing down. Fuck. I just KNOW that if I hadn't fucked this up at literally every opportunity it would have worked.

Ah well, infinite fuel now :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 04, 2015, 01:43:41 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 12:51:48 am
You alteady had a reason - survivability - except that whole aspect of the game is borked

I've never had anything break during ascent, like a single solar panel etc, excluding catastrophic failures of the whole craft...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 04, 2015, 02:01:46 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on May 04, 2015, 12:44:31 am
You can't fold caseless solar panels anymore?? Noooooo
What do you mean by that? I'm not at that tech level yet so haven't tried them out, and the only thing I can imagine you mean doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 02:30:43 am
They unfold, and then they won't fold back up, because reasons.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 04, 2015, 03:06:39 am
Seems totally reasonable.   They could unfold purely mechanically with springs and some sort of ratchet or locking mechanism.   

Refolding would require a more complicated mechanism as well as a motor, and would only have value for landers.  I'm happy to see the differentiation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 04, 2015, 05:31:13 am
The panels with case seem to survive reentry pretty well also. Very useful for mods like stagerecovery/construction time so they go back into inventory for reuse.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 08:13:51 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 01:05:10 am
Ok, got a encounter with Kerbin, and then had nowhere near the fuel required for slowing down. Fuck. I just KNOW that if I hadn't fucked this up at literally every opportunity it would have worked.

Ah well, infinite fuel now :P

Best to aim for the dead center of the planet so when you do get into SOI you'll be off by a bit and can just burn a tad to get into aerobrake range. Worst case you still have your lithobrake.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 08:28:57 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 08:13:51 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 01:05:10 am
Ok, got a encounter with Kerbin, and then had nowhere near the fuel required for slowing down. Fuck. I just KNOW that if I hadn't fucked this up at literally every opportunity it would have worked.

Ah well, infinite fuel now :P

Best to aim for the dead center of the planet so when you do get into SOI you'll be off by a bit and can just burn a tad to get into aerobrake range. Worst case you still have your lithobrake.
I can't orbital mechanics quite that hard yet. Took me about an hour of fiddling just to get an encounter. Anyway, used infinite fuel after that, not exactly proud of it, but whatever learned a bunch of things.

Now I am flying the SLOWEST PLANE EVAR to the OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE GODDAMN PLANET because that is where the one aerial survey mission the game decided to give me after I actually unlocked aircraft happened to spawn.
Seriously, before I could do ANY PLANES AT ALL my mission log was a fucking clutter of those bastards, now that I have turbojets and such it doesn't want to spawn any ever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 08:48:22 am
Do you not have patched conics available? You might want to change the default draw mode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 09:06:27 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 08:48:22 am
Do you not have patched conics available? You might want to change the default draw mode.
Of course I have patched conics, I'm just not able to get that exact of a maneuver node from interplanetary space :P BFEL isn't that good yet, this is my second ever interplanetary mission so yeah.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 09:40:58 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 09:06:27 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 08:48:22 am
Do you not have patched conics available? You might want to change the default draw mode.
Of course I have patched conics, I'm just not able to get that exact of a maneuver node from interplanetary space :P BFEL isn't that good yet, this is my second ever interplanetary mission so yeah.

I was just curious if you had upgraded your tracking station enough. Throw down a maneuver node in front of your craft and play with it a bunch. Watch where the maneuver node goes on the navball. You'll get used to it with time. You can always run a rough maneuver node and then fine tune it with some on the fly burns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 04, 2015, 11:01:12 am
Maneuver nodes come with patched conics? Knowing that would have made the past half hour much easier.

I made a Mun flyby trip, but it was tight on fuel. Only .5L of liquid fuel to spare by the time I got my periapse on return below 70km.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 11:13:50 am
Maneuver nodes come with mission control and tracking station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 04, 2015, 11:22:27 am
Ah, mission control. I knew there had to be a reason to upgrade that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 11:35:03 am
minmus&mun can both be encountered with a burn as they rise over the horizon
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 04, 2015, 01:37:39 pm
Just don't do like me. Make sure that you're orbiting in the same direction as they are, or you're going to need 2 more orbits to actually make a pass for the Mun, and a fair few more than that for Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 01:55:11 pm
I had just assumed that "patched conics" meant "maneuver nodes" because "patched conics" tells me nothing and you kind of need maneuver nodes to go anywhere with any expectation of actually getting where you want to go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 04, 2015, 02:00:50 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 01:55:11 pm
I had just assumed that "patched conics" meant "maneuver nodes" because "patched conics" tells me nothing and you kind of need maneuver nodes to go anywhere with any expectation of actually getting where you want to go.
Patched conics means you can see the projected orbit when it crosses another body's SOI
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 02:01:09 pm
Server will be back up in less than one hour!

Prepare a 1.0, we'll be running that unmodded in career mode until 1.02 Aereodinamic issues and crashes are fixed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 02:21:42 pm
Shit! I accidentally loaded a quicksave I made before bringing a lander back from Minmus, and then the game immediately autosaved. The SSTO I was working on is thankfully still there but I lost a couple satellite missions and a whole lot of science unlocks.

Also, what's this about a server?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 02:25:46 pm
UGH UGH ALL MY UGH.

Why is it impossible to find a surface target for survey? Aerial targets are valid a mile in every direction but NOPE the ones that are on the surface you have to be in the EXACT FUCKING INCH of space that it wants you at, in a plane that, being a plane, is REALLY HARD TO TURN and the map mode is terrible for showing where you should be looking.

I have THREE OF THESE BASTARDS in the same little cluster that would all be the same aerial area, and after an hour of searching I haven't crossed ONE of them.
That's pretty ridiculous. Is squad planning to address this at any point? Or is endlessly searching the same patches of indistinguishable grass a "feature"?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 04, 2015, 02:29:35 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 02:25:46 pm
UGH UGH ALL MY UGH.

Why is it impossible to find a surface target for survey? Aerial targets are valid a mile in every direction but NOPE the ones that are on the surface you have to be in the EXACT FUCKING INCH of space that it wants you at, in a plane that, being a plane, is REALLY HARD TO TURN and the map mode is terrible for showing where you should be looking.

I have THREE OF THESE BASTARDS in the same little cluster that would all be the same aerial area, and after an hour of searching I haven't crossed ONE of them.
That's pretty ridiculous. Is squad planning to address this at any point? Or is endlessly searching the same patches of indistinguishable grass a "feature"?
You should be able to set those places as a target.  What I did was create a plane that could land, and then just dive over there on the ground.  Haven't had any problems with not finding stuff so far. 
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 04, 2015, 02:21:42 pm
Shit! I accidentally loaded a quicksave I made before bringing a lander back from Minmus, and then the game immediately autosaved. The SSTO I was working on is thankfully still there but I lost a couple satellite missions and a whole lot of science unlocks.

Also, what's this about a server?
If you feel like it you can use Alt-F12 to give yourself those contracts and then complete them, along with going to the lab and unlocking techs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 02:34:46 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 02:25:46 pm

Why is it impossible to find a surface target for survey?

https://github.com/jrossignol/WaypointManager/releases

ur welcome
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 04, 2015, 02:37:16 pm
The way I hit those spots is with a lightweight VTOL.  they're fun to make and fun to fly, and you can build them with fairly low tech parts.

I find it difficult to make planes that are good at driving (especially over any kind of terrain) as Lightningfalcon suggests, but I would guess that if you had access to a large cargo bay (or even a small clamp-o-tron) you could carry a little minicar or something.

Would be nice if you had an EVA navball.  Back before I knew how to make VTOLs, I would land a plane and point its nose at the target and just walk the pilot in that direction using the nose as a reference.

Or, if you can hit the ground target while flying, consider making a bomber.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 02:43:55 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 02:01:09 pm
Server will be back up in less than one hour!

Prepare a 1.0, we'll be running that unmodded in career mode until 1.02 Aereodinamic issues and crashes are fixed

I'd love to, but how do I get back to 1.0? Steam updated me to 1.0.2 quite some time ago. I tried "previous stable release," a day or two ago, but that installed the previous beta release (0.90) instead.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
Wat! Don't all people play on a copy of ksp?

Joking aside, dmp doesn't support 102 yet
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 04, 2015, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 02:45:46 pm
Wat! Don't all people play on a copy of ksp?

I know, right? Steam's auto-updates make mods do weird stuff, so if I ever want to mod the game I copy it out of the steam folder before starting up the process.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 02:52:29 pm
The only steam game I played on a copy was VTM:B.  ???

"Make mods do weird stuff" how?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 04, 2015, 02:58:22 pm
presumably by patching the game without updating your mod.  Both of the mods I use tend to have compatibility issues after any update to the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 03:02:59 pm
Ambient light adjustment did stop working temporarily, but that was just a minor inconvenience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 04, 2015, 03:07:16 pm
On that note is there any way to download older versions of KSP? I may or may not have deleted my 1.0.0 copy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 03:29:00 pm
167.88.35.241 server up, continue discussion in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

currently 1.0, career, normal, no mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 03:43:42 pm
Most older versions have been archived. No, I won't say where they might be. Just wait for 1.0 to get ironed out. F10 will shut off the bigger current memory leak. You might also want to turn off Steam autoupdate if you have that distro for ksp, although it may turn itself back on sometime later. Steam is fickle like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 03:57:33 pm
Auto-update can't be turned off, what are you taking about?  ???

Also, F10 keeps turning itself back on every time I launch something.  ::)
That said, I don't seem to have the memory leak in when I'm not in re-entry - I built a jet that overheats and shows temperature bars and flashes red just from flying, and wasn't leaking memory.
I also didn't seem to leak memory when I hyperedited it in above eve, and flew through its atmosphere with the temperature bars on. So I don't know what's up with that. Unless installing hyper edit magically fixed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2015, 04:06:16 pm
GAH! And AGAIN I have to use infinite fuel bullshittery. This time to fix what I have to assume is a bug instead of my own incompetence. NERVAs aren't supposed to just randomly explode without heating up first right? I'm pretty sure they aren't supposed to randomly explode.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 04:06:43 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 03:57:33 pm
Auto-update can't be turned off, what are you taking about?  ???


Spoiler: wat (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 04:26:10 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 04:06:43 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 03:57:33 pm
Auto-update can't be turned off, what are you taking about?  ???
Spoiler: wat (click to show/hide)

Yup. I don't have KSP through Steam and couldn't do a screengrab like that from my tablet for most of the day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 04:44:24 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 04, 2015, 04:06:43 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 03:57:33 pm
Auto-update can't be turned off, what are you taking about?  ???


Spoiler: wat (click to show/hide)

I just took this screenshot now, just for you:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In any case "Do not automatically update" never did what you think it did, it always only delayed updates until you tried to run the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 04, 2015, 04:55:22 pm
Yep, you can't turn it off for ksp.

I keep my KSP in a separate folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2015, 05:49:55 pm
I keep my KSP with Squad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Descan on May 04, 2015, 07:39:25 pm
Regardless, turning it off auto-update allows you to go "Oh, hey, updoot," and shove your copy into a seperate folder for preservation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 04, 2015, 07:48:41 pm
edit: wait a minute
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 04, 2015, 09:10:01 pm
So I tried 1.0.2. I couldn't really find anything to complain about at first. The heat gauges weren't even giving me memory issues, so I decided to leave them on and do a rather well-paying mission to retrieve a piece of debris from Minmus orbit. It was going fine until I was on a path to return to Kerbin, going straight towards the surface. Just after leaving Minmus' SOI, I realized it was probably a good idea to eject my final stage and fold up my solar panels and service bay, so I did it. After engaging time warp again, every part in my craft was severed from the cockpit,  and there was an explosion. I quick  loaded and tried again, this still happened. Eventually, I went to the tracking station to try time warp there. I waited until the craft was closer to Kerbin, and transferred to it. It was still in one piece, so I engaged timewarp one more time, thinking it was over. This time, the craft didn't explode, but it stayed in place above Kerbin instead. I could still see Kerbin turning beneath me. I let go of the debris I was carrying, and it slid off me and fell to Kerbin on its own just as it would as if I was hovering in place above it. This was especially odd since I had timewarp supposedly on. A few seconds later, my craft exploded just as it did before.

I quick loaded again, fell down to Kerbin without using timewarp. I landed without any problems and tried using timewarp on the surface. It behaved normally.

...is this a known issue? It's incredibly bizarre, and I did a couple other missions before this happened without any problems. If I'm going to have to deal with it again later, I'm probably just going to wait for a better bug fix which doesn't add more bugs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 04, 2015, 09:23:54 pm
1.0 has some weird glitches.
The other day my rockets would start flying around on the screen as if it was some hyperactive fish on crack.  I could change the throttle, and the engines would light up, but it would do nothing to change the velocity. Even exiting the game wouldn't fix it.  Thankfully the patch was out, and despite there being nothing related to my bug in the patch notes it was fixed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 04, 2015, 09:48:24 pm
I feel weird, because I've been playing 1.0.2 pretty consistently since its release and haven't had any of the bugs anyone else has. Though I have been somewhat proactive with controlling my timewarp because I remember the older versions having fun glitches like warping through or into planets before the game can slow down to real time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 04, 2015, 09:55:14 pm
I haven't had that happen to me, but I also haven't had any ships come back from the mun or minmus since upgrading to 1.0.2. I have a ship from 1.0 on the way to minmus, but it's taking weeks to get there, and I'm running the rest of the space program while it does so. I only just succeeded last night in finally making a post-1.0 ship that can reach the mun, enter orbit, drop a probe on the mun, and have enough delta v to make it back to kerbin afterwards.

I burned most of the several thousand deltav on the probe landing it. I was probably doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 05, 2015, 02:08:48 am
I'm mainly futzing around as I wait for stable builds of TACLS and RT.  They're both playable now, but could use a little work.

Also, I borked my chance at "explore" contacts for mun and minmus (can't get it back woth alt-f12 either), so want to restart for those.  I find that doing the "explore" jobs in order is a great experience with those two mods.

I noticed there are mini-tour contracts now, like flyby of all 3 bodies in the kerbin system.  that's pretty cool, another good use of RT and/or TACLS.  can't wait to graduate to actual Grand Tour missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 05, 2015, 03:02:00 am
Some people build spacecraft in KSP, but some guy from the Russian KSP fan group at VK.com decided to build a Titanic replica.
Spoiler: 6 985 tons of steel and low FPS (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 03:29:32 am
Does it float? :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 05, 2015, 03:44:05 am
Without a keel or anything below the waterline?  probably not well. 

Add that along with a conveyance to get it to the water, and it will really shine.

In a similar vein, id like to see a stock parts space-x landing barge.  I think I could make one, but less certain that I could execute a stage recovery on one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 05, 2015, 05:34:37 am
Quote from: puke on May 05, 2015, 02:08:48 am
I noticed there are mini-tour contracts now, like flyby of all 3 bodies in the kerbin system.  that's pretty cool, another good use of RT and/or TACLS.  can't wait to graduate to actual Grand Tour missions.
Yeah, those are great, except every one I've gotten so far is "Fly by Minmus, Mun and A MOTHERFUCKING PLANET"
One of these things is not like the others...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 09:21:26 am
Quote from: puke on May 05, 2015, 03:44:05 am
Add that along with a conveyance to get it to the water, and it will really shine.

HyperEdit :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 05, 2015, 12:51:30 pm
That's nice but the titanic was 52,000 tons, nothing tweakscale couldn't fix I imagine.
Speaking of crash bugs, I've had frequent crashes in 1.0 while attempting to get into orbit with cans-o-boom and explosive staging, It may have something to do with having thermal debug stuff turned on.
I also had an instance of infiniti-glide after a rocket exploded, and a space kracken eating the universe.
Also numerous other crashes from running out of ram before I decided which lag inducing mods I could live without.
Many of my mods weren't updated to 1.0.2 so at the moment I'm now running a god-forsaken Frankenstein's monster of 1.0 with various 1.0.2 mods shoved into it with their .version file hacked to 1.0, while also having the updated squad parts, physics config, and parts database config of 1.0.2 crammed into the 1.0 folder. Somehow it appears stable except for a warning at boot about firespitter and tweakscale being out of date, no crashes so far.
I'm quite surprised it works actually since squad added some new physics between 1.0 and 1.0.2 and I assumed the new part file or configs would cause a crash due to the presence of unknown values.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 05, 2015, 01:02:14 pm
Be aware, in 1.0.2 the heat bars cause a massive memory leak that will cause KSP to crash. They will appear automatically once a part sufficiently heats up, unless turned off (with F10, IIRC).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Finished the first SSTO in my career game, and I'm pretty proud of it. It can carry 6 kerbals, dock with my station in LKO, and has enough cargo space for a small probe all for only 53k Kerbucks, >95% of which can be recovered. It's definitely my most capable spaceplane to date.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 05, 2015, 05:22:21 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Finished the first SSTO in my career game, and I'm pretty proud of it. It can carry 6 kerbals, dock with my station in LKO, and has enough cargo space for a small probe all for only 53k Kerbucks, >95% of which can be recovered. It's definitely my most capable spaceplane to date.
Would you mind sharing the craft file? I'd like to take a look.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 05, 2015, 06:07:06 pm
I think there are too many unlockable in game when compared to how many progression paths you actually have.

I.e. Upgrading vab and launchpad separatedly doesn't really give alternatives to progression, they unlock the same thing combined. Same with sph and airfield. Same with bigger part and part limits.
All those are fake choices and feel redundant.

At this point better to tie mk1/2/3 rocket part to vab level, mk1/2/3 plane part to sph level, part launch limits to launchpad/airfields, and repurpose research. Or allow individual part research only after relevant pad level is unlocked. Or anything, but not three keys to unlock a single door at a time like now.

Right now research is just grind but without interesting choices
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 06:26:38 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 05, 2015, 05:22:21 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Finished the first SSTO in my career game, and I'm pretty proud of it. It can carry 6 kerbals, dock with my station in LKO, and has enough cargo space for a small probe all for only 53k Kerbucks, >95% of which can be recovered. It's definitely my most capable spaceplane to date.
Would you mind sharing the craft file? I'd like to take a look.

Sure, here: http://www.filedropper.com/ssto-1whiteraven

Action groups are: 1 to toggle turbojets and intakes, 2 to toggle aerospikes. You need to stage the turbojets initially.

To fly it you need to climb to 10km then level out while the turbojets get the speed up, maybe do a burst with the rockets because the thrust from the jets gets better as you go faster. Once it reaches 1000 m/s it should be ready for ascent into orbit. It briefly loses stability as the rockets burn through their first tank so turn on RCS. Oh, and it tends to burn fuel from its payload so you need to disable crossfeed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 05, 2015, 07:05:50 pm
Macey dean has made a new video! My brain is currently overloading!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 07:42:42 pm
Losbooccacc: You're still on 1.0, right? I think the service bay had an exploit in it, which would make it the optimal choice technologically. If you want to check: Place a cockpit, then put a service bay below it, and then a materials bay (Science Jr) inside the service bay (just jam it in there, so it sticks out the bottom), and then attach the rest of your rocket to the materials bay.

I had a rocket designed that way which shot into orbit easily (compared to 1.0.2 - it still had booster SRBs, mind you) and went whereever in 1.0, but in 1.0.2 mysteriously had a 0.66 TWR in the second stage and couldn't get further than 12 km or so into the sky. My current theory then is that the service bay was eliminating the mass of their fuel. If it had been all the mass, then the rocket would probably have incinerated itself trying to hit ludicrous speed on takeoff (from the SRBs) - and I wouldn't have needed to put SRBs on it in the first place.

That rocket: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=435032476
Without the SRBs blocking your view: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=435032764
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 08:17:03 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 07:42:42 pm
Snip

I don't think that was what happened. Drag was increased significantly in 1.0.1. With all those SRBs you were probably going too fast and getting tons of drag in the lower atmosphere. As for the second stage, engines have been fixed so that changing Isp affects thrust instead fuel flow, meaning a low Isp produces a low thrust. The atmospheric Isp for the LV-909 and Poodle engines was reduced to the point where they're almost useless at sea level. With all the drag on the first stage, the second stage wasn't able to get high enough for its engine to produce much thrust, hence the low TWR.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on May 05, 2015, 10:08:45 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 05, 2015, 07:05:50 pm
Macey dean has made a new video! My brain is currently overloading!

Uhhghghgnhnnhhn.

Yes. Not a fan of this one, but can't wait for moar spaec baetls!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 10:41:46 pm
The second stage was the LV-T45, though. First stage was the SRBs.

In 1.0, the SRBs activated, it shot up through the sky until they ran out and were dropped, then the LV-T45 activated, and it continued shooting up through the sky, until it was in space at 70km or higher (usually it hit 100km before I stopped it because it was moving so damn fast), and I turned it 90 degrees (yes, I didn't even need to do a gravity turn), and ran it some more until it finally ran out, and then dropped that to turn on the 909.

In 1.0.2, it slowly crawled its way up to 8000m or 10000m or so on the SRBs, then when they ran out and it dropped them, it shuddered a couple thousand more meters until it started losing to gravity. A couple thousand meters from the ground, with about 10% of the LV-T45's fuel left, it finally gained positive velocity again. For about 30 seconds. I did not even bother turning on the 909 at that point because it would have been pointless.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 05, 2015, 11:05:58 pm
I just recreated it in 1.0 and the second stage definitely has a TWR of less than 1. The weight of the second stage is about 320 kN, so it starts with a TWR of between 0.525 and 0.625 depending on altitude. However, the residual velocity from the SRBs is enough to keep the rocket going up until it reaches a TWR of 1 thanks to its fuel being used up. You're sure that wasn't what was happening?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 11:19:37 pm
If that's what happened when you tried it, then sure. I didn't think it was likely, since drag was supposedly increased 30%, not 300%. :P

(It probably didn't help that I didn't have KER installed in 1.0, so I couldn't see any of the stats.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 06, 2015, 01:48:38 am
I've made an interesting discovery. Apparently, a Mobile Lab's science production get's an increase for each scientist in the vessel even if they aren't in the lab. You don't even need a single scientist in the lab, just any random kerbal can man it and as long as the scientists are on the craft you still get just as much science per day.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 01:57:27 am
interesting.  Can you get higher totals that way, or just faster production? 

If you plug in a crew module full of scientists, would you produce mega science points, or just hit the labs limit faster?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2015, 05:10:49 am
And then there was a space station composed of one mobile lab and 20 full crew modules.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 06, 2015, 09:13:51 am
Quote from: puke on May 06, 2015, 01:57:27 am
interesting.  Can you get higher totals that way, or just faster production? 

If you plug in a crew module full of scientists, would you produce mega science points, or just hit the labs limit faster?
As long as you remember to empty it out every hundred days or so you will get all the science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 06, 2015, 10:35:03 am
So suddenly I can no longer load my 1.0 without disabling clouds, I finally gave in and redownloaded everything for 1.0.2 including the experimental remote tech build, but this too I needed to disable clouds in order to load.
Then I discovered the -force-opengl switch. The game is loading with 1.5 gb less ram which is great, on the downside text and small icons look a little washed out, but everything else looks great, It also seems to have fixed that shadow strobing bug the KC had at certain times of day.
Also, the newest version of BDarmory has AI controlled weapons/ ships or something, wooohoo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 10:41:08 am
I am excited. My next mission should give me the science I need to unlock drills which paves the way for a permanent settlement on minmus.

I just tested the survey scanner with my Oracle 1 satellite so I understood how surveying worked. Now I'll launch Observer 2 over to minmus for a full survey. I could probably swing by the Mun as well to survey that en-route. I've done a few mun->minmus transfers before and gotten pretty good at it.

Once I have a good spot I'll be landing a pioneer module from MKS and some habitation space. Subsequent missions will include a drilling and refinery platform, labs, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 11:15:01 am
Do scanners scan while not in focus? What about drills?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 11:18:28 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 11:15:01 am
Do scanners scan while not in focus? What about drills?
No idea about drills yet since I haven't unlocked them. I will do a test drill on kerbin once I do to answer that.

The stock survey scanner is a one-shot thing. You send it up and run the survey, it transmits data back home, then you have the full overlay. You don't need to wait, and the overlay stays forever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 06, 2015, 11:34:23 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 11:15:01 am
Do scanners scan while not in focus? What about drills?
SCANSAT (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369) scanners can be left running in the background, as long as you bring enough power to keep them working.

Just how useful asparagus staging is now? I want to build a heavy launch vehicle to bring a probe to Eve's orbit with plenty of fuel in science mode (at least 2000 m/s delta v), but I don't have the 3.75 m parts yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 06, 2015, 11:44:40 am
Asparagus and onion are always useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 11:51:40 am
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 06, 2015, 11:34:23 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 11:15:01 am
Do scanners scan while not in focus? What about drills?
SCANSAT (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369) scanners can be left running in the background, as long as you bring enough power to keep them working.

Just how useful asparagus staging is now? I want to build a heavy launch vehicle to bring a probe to Eve's orbit with plenty of fuel in science mode (at least 2000 m/s delta v), but I don't have the 3.75 m parts yet.
How big is your probe? EVE is pretty easy if you wait for a good window. I did a two stage launch with about 7500 delta v and got to EVE with over 2000 spare
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:12:43 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 06, 2015, 11:34:23 am
SCANSAT (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369) scanners can be left running in the background, as long as you bring enough power to keep them working.

When did that change? 

Last time I used scansat, it only gathered map data while it was in focus.  Similarly, I clearly remember parts (including TAC-LS) NOT burning any electricity when not in focus.  I even exploited it by carefully managing my focus time when I had planned badly and power was low.

This was probably pre-beta when I had done that, but it wasn't that long ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 12:13:28 pm
Quote from: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:12:43 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 06, 2015, 11:34:23 am
SCANSAT (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369) scanners can be left running in the background, as long as you bring enough power to keep them working.

When did that change? 

Last time I used scansat, it only gathered map data while it was in focus.  Similarly, I clearly remember parts (including TAC-LS) NOT burning any electricity when not in focus.  I even exploited it by carefully managing my focus time when I had planned badly and power was low.

This was probably pre-beta when I had done that, but it wasn't that long ago.
Its been that way for a while now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 06, 2015, 12:17:13 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 12:13:28 pm
Quote from: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:12:43 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 06, 2015, 11:34:23 am
SCANSAT (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369) scanners can be left running in the background, as long as you bring enough power to keep them working.

When did that change? 

Last time I used scansat, it only gathered map data while it was in focus.  Similarly, I clearly remember parts (including TAC-LS) NOT burning any electricity when not in focus.  I even exploited it by carefully managing my focus time when I had planned badly and power was low.

This was probably pre-beta when I had done that, but it wasn't that long ago.
Its been that way for a while now.

A looooooooooooong while. 1-2 years at least. Kethane is the only mod that fell by the wayside and forced scanning focus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:20:35 pm
wow, where does the time go?

It looks to me like you lose access to all of the world record contracts after you achieve orbit for the first time.  I had an active contract for a 2500m/s speed record, and it vanished after I hit orbit for the first time :(

Looks like you need to stay suborbital if you want to complete as many contracts as possible.

I thought the dev-logs said those record setting contracts would go out to the other planets, but I have not seen anything since hitting space.  No further land or air distance records at all.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 12:21:24 pm
record contracts are automatic now. You can achieve them all at once in 1.0 with a single launch and you get all of the rewards. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:44:10 pm
yes, yes, but that isnt what i'm on about here.

the automatic record contracts VANISH after you obtain orbit the first time.  They never come back, as far as I have seen.

You will hit all your altitude records up to 70K along the way, but any speed or distance records that you have not obtained by the time you reach orbit are -gone-

I dont think there are any land distance records beyond 100K, I got that one and did not see any subsequent ones so I just went ahead with my first suborbital flight -- but I think the land distance records also stop as soon as you hit space (not orbit, just space).

The devs blogged about having distance records extending out to the planets, but those dont seem to exist.  I get no more automatic contracts after hitting orbit, and the old uncompleted ones are gone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 12:45:35 pm
Are you playing 1.0?

When I started a 1.0 career all of the distance/altitude/speed record contracts were already active and autocompleted when achieved. I never saw one vanish unless I had completed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 12:48:47 pm
1.02, fresh career.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 12:55:53 pm
The last speed record I got was 2500 m/s, and I think it was while I was in the process of circularizing my first orbit, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 06, 2015, 12:57:07 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 05, 2015, 03:29:32 am
Does it float? :V

She's made of iron, Mr. Shadowlord. She can sink, and she will.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 06, 2015, 12:57:18 pm
I had that happen with a speed record slightly above orbital velocity. It didn't trigger when I broke it while in orbit, and then it vanished once I returned to the space center. It seems like you need to stay in the atmosphere for the records to count.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 01:14:12 pm
You definitely dont have to stay in the atmosphere, I broke the 1050 on a suborbital flight during re-entery.  The 2500 only vanished (uncompleted) after my first orbital flight.

I just tried it again, fresh career (with bonus science and cash) and first flight.  Only automatic missions.  no mods, though I think the mod manager is still hanging around in there somewhere.

Hit most of the auto-contracts on the way to orbit, except the 2500 speed. That contract remained active while in flight, but after returning to the space center it was gone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 02:00:22 pm
on further evaluation, I think this may be a feature... or at least "working as intended".

Quote
If we are going to get into orbit, we need to go faster. Break the current speed records by...

is the actual text of the contract.  There seems to be nothing beyond 2.5km/s, as I just completed it on a suborbital flight and did not trigger anything further.

But this is what puzzles me:

Quote
World First contract line now extends all the way out to Eeloo, and is dependent on player progression.

The above is an item from the 1.0 feature list.  I sort of expected those contracts to continue out, with increasing distance from Kerbin, or being challenged to reach other planetary bodies.

They are seemingly not talking about the "explore Mun" or "explore Duna" contracts, as those are not always given by the "Worlds First" society.  Those have random contract sponsors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 06, 2015, 02:05:02 pm
I think you have to make a rendezvous in orbit before you can get any of the other World's First contracts, since that's the only one of theirs that seems to remain after you hit orbit. Maybe once you get that done, you can move on to the later ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 06, 2015, 02:08:22 pm
My rendezvous contract came way late, probably because I unlocked docking ports late. Haven't finished that contract yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 06, 2015, 02:09:40 pm
The way landmark contracts disappear is kind of annoying. I know there used to be a similar problem with the altitude records but they're kind of gone now. The problem I had was with the "explore the moon" one disappearing because I had the audacity to take some crew reports, EVA reports, and temperature scans during my flyby.
And then no more big money contract for me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 02:42:28 pm
I accepted two rescue from orbit contracts, now neither of the guy to be rescued is shown. damn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on May 06, 2015, 02:53:52 pm
If they're not specifically in low Kerbin orbit, they could be scattered pretty much anywhere across the Kerbin-Mun system.  On the main forums, I saw a thread where a rescue mission spawned the target only a few hours up on an impact trajectory with the Munar surface, with the expected consequences.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 06, 2015, 02:54:04 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 02:42:28 pm
I accepted two rescue from orbit contracts, now neither of the guy to be rescued is shown. damn.
They should show up as derelict ships in orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 03:01:03 pm
Quote from: Culise on May 06, 2015, 02:53:52 pm
If they're not specifically in low Kerbin orbit, they could be scattered pretty much anywhere across the Kerbin-Mun system.  On the main forums, I saw a thread where a rescue mission spawned the target only a few hours up on an impact trajectory with the Munar surface, with the expected consequences.

he warped 1000x so the capsule clipped to safety? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 03:29:19 pm
There's a rendezvous contract?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on May 06, 2015, 03:37:51 pm
EDIT: Clear this; accidentally hit "quote" instead of "modify." >_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on May 06, 2015, 03:40:30 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2015, 03:01:03 pm
Quote from: Culise on May 06, 2015, 02:53:52 pm
If they're not specifically in low Kerbin orbit, they could be scattered pretty much anywhere across the Kerbin-Mun system.  On the main forums, I saw a thread where a rescue mission spawned the target only a few hours up on an impact trajectory with the Munar surface, with the expected consequences.

he warped 1000x so the capsule clipped to safety? :P
Hee~. :D

Quote from: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 03:29:19 pm
There's a rendezvous contract?
Yep.  If I recall, it basically consists of getting close enough to another owned ship and reducing the relative velocity between the two ships close to zero.

Oddly, I received it before unlocking docking parts, and since it didn't actually require me to dock, I simply fulfilled it at the same time as a rescue mission mostly by accident (I didn't realize how generous the allowances in "close to" would actually be. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2015, 03:46:25 pm
Woah hoah!  there is a Rendezvous contract!

I never saw it before, it must have been 'under' another one of the contracts in my queue, waiting to be cleared out.  I don't have docking ports open yet, and it came up after completing the "return from orbit" contract and after I declined a few things to freshen the queue.

I was able to complete it at the same time as a rescue mission, zeroed my velocity relative to the debris (tricky without RCS), and when I switched over to control the other craft it acknowledged that they were both crafts at 0 relative velocity and completed the contract. 

Next one up is a Mun flyby, but I think I'll putz about in the atmosphere a bit until Remote Tech and TAC LS are out with official builds.  RT sounds like it should just be a day or so more, there seems to be a stable dev build on Git.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 06, 2015, 03:48:44 pm
I was looking at Duna/Eve craft building before rendezvous in Kerbin orbit showed up. I've picked up Mun and Minmus stranded crew and landed them to plant flags before rendezvous showed up. That mission is a bit late in coming.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 06, 2015, 04:22:18 pm
There's no way to remove the automatic engine fairings in stock, is there?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 06, 2015, 05:04:52 pm
Is there a way to downgrade to 1.0.0 using steam?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 05:31:55 pm
Nope. "Previous Stable Build" (in the "betas") is 0.90.

They pushed 1.0.2 five days ago, left "Previous Stable Build" on .90, and have done nothing since: https://steamdb.info/app/220200/depots/ https://steamdb.info/app/220200/history/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 06, 2015, 05:48:23 pm
*Almost* landed a jet in the desert without parachutes....almost.

Managed to touchdown at a speed of only 42 m/s (93 mph), dropped the throttle to nil and rode the brakes. Unfortunately, there wasn't any level terrain, and I was landing on the side slope of a shallow hill. Started to tip, panicked (do you steer a jet INTO the skid, or away?), and then did a yard sale all over the desert. Command pod was fine of course, but I lost my thermometers and barometers and all their scrumptious science data. :(


EDIT: I really need to invest in a joystick.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 06, 2015, 06:14:49 pm
you steer a jet into the skid, at least with the jets I make
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 06:58:08 pm
I wonder, would a docking bay have protected all that science?
 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 06, 2015, 07:41:31 pm
One of the tricks to landing is to not be in a hurry.  Most airworthy craft can stay in the air at well under 100% throttle, spaceplanes that can get high enough to have a chance at orbit can probably stay in the air at 25% or even less.  The less speed you start with when coming in to land the easier. Because it's easier to gain a little speed when landing than it is to lose it.  If going too fast you can kill speed without gaining altitude by doing a couple s curves in the air.  Make sure yer not too close to the ground when you do that though.  If yer too slow, just throttle up the engine a touch or two for a few seconds.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 06, 2015, 09:36:25 pm
Yeah, I was down at about 30% throttle or below. Like I said, the actual touchdown was fine, it was the braking that left something to be desired. A tail parachute would helped, I suppose though I worry that it would have unanticipated forces causing the plane to jerk off-axis.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 06, 2015, 09:39:39 pm
Tail parachutes don't work in stock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 06, 2015, 09:41:11 pm
I tried making a space plane for the first time in 1.0.2, but now all the planes I make do backflips on takeoff just like everyone's did when they first started playing. I tried moving my center of lift forwards and backwards, but it didn't help.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 09:53:11 pm
You centered your Center of Lift inside your Center of Mass? Are your thrusters pointing directly forward (or outward)? (Rather than up or down, since that would throw it off)

Might also throw it off if the wings were tilted, though I'm not sure since I'm not terribly good at making planes.

Got screenshots or video?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
CoL BEHIND CoM

Your wingdick should buttsex your fatball.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 06, 2015, 10:44:38 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 06, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
Your wingdick should buttsex your fatball.
Couldn't have said that better myself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 07, 2015, 12:04:32 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 06, 2015, 09:53:11 pm
You centered your Center of Lift inside your Center of Mass? Are your thrusters pointing directly forward (or outward)? (Rather than up or down, since that would throw it off)

Might also throw it off if the wings were tilted, though I'm not sure since I'm not terribly good at making planes.

You can compensate for wing tilting by counter-tilting the stabilizers. For instance, because of the shitty entry-tier fixed landing gear, I tend to tilt the wingtips up so that wing-mounted landing gear (the long ones on a stick) are at the same height as the fuselage-mounted nose gear. This is counter balanced by tilting the stabilizers (whether mounted on the tail or as canards) down.  This can make handling a bit wonky but nothing too bad. Actually, angling the wings up tends to give superior lift at low speeds (think the Stuka or F4U Corsair). My Grasshopper can get airborne at speeds as low as 65 m/s.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 07, 2015, 12:31:55 am
Kleberal Splace Afrogram.

I need to get thiiiis guuhhhhh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 07, 2015, 12:33:13 am
I don't tend to have much of a problem with the beginning landing gear. If you don't play around wiht the angle you just have to move them up on the fuselage until the wheels are at a 90 degree angle, and at that point they are either the same height or slightly higher when compared to the front wheel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 07, 2015, 12:44:50 am
Sadly I can't find a download link for that titanic so I won't be getting it into space today :/. It would be easy with tweakscale, I've been hefting 2000 ton rockets with ease.
I'm stil screwing about with MKS, at the moment I'm working on separating the OKS/MKS stuff into separate tiers, OKS stuff available earlier, cheaper and lighter but less powerful, MKS stuff available later but more heavy and powerful, capable of supporting larger colonies, also more expensive. I'm also working on rebalancing power costs, I'll probably triple basic power consumption, make refineries take 5-6 times as much, seriously reduce production of the PDU and other reactors and force them to require way more fuel. I've also taken the old overheating mechanic off the ISRU and forced it into overheating reactors, I need to balance it so that left on and running at 100% a reactor will kersplode, unless either; attached to a bigass fueltank/water tank ,attached to a significant quantity of gigantors, OR has a high level engineer inside the module. 
Or for balance reasons you should get the same cooling by attaching the reactor to a small tank with a few panels on it, and have a level 1 engineer present. Ideally the reactor should still get hot enough to cause nearby items to explode, more ideally it should run hot enough to be borderline risking the gigantors exploding, like that mainsail test I was running.
Lastly I want depleted uranium to cause it's storage tank to heat up but I'm not sure how to do that. As a last resort I might repurpose an MKS inflatable module so that when inflated it will store a large quantity of DU, but generate heat as a by-product.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 07, 2015, 01:04:13 am
Quote from: Japa on May 06, 2015, 09:39:39 pm
Tail parachutes don't work in stock.


It seems they do now, they cut at speed 0 not touchdown
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 07, 2015, 01:05:23 am
Quote from: Japa on May 06, 2015, 09:39:39 pm
Tail parachutes don't work in stock.
I do believe you never tried. :P

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot320.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 07, 2015, 01:57:29 am
I tried in an older version. I don't have the new version yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: da_nang on May 07, 2015, 03:32:18 am
Quote from: RedKing on May 06, 2015, 09:36:25 pm
Yeah, I was down at about 30% throttle or below. Like I said, the actual touchdown was fine, it was the braking that left something to be desired. A tail parachute would helped, I suppose though I worry that it would have unanticipated forces causing the plane to jerk off-axis.
I'd imagine the problem was at least one of the wheels not touching the ground when braking. Unbalanced forces create torque.

Solution is to either go for a parachute or aerobrakes. Alternatively, land on flat land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 07, 2015, 03:41:00 am
The airbrakes work wonderfully for landing. They work wonderfully for reentry as well, as they're far less likely to burn off than parachutes now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 07, 2015, 04:47:49 am
KSP 1.0 MLG montage from CamTroid, perfectly showcasing the game's features. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0o8fkfvI6U&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 07, 2015, 07:26:34 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 07, 2015, 03:41:00 am
The airbrakes work wonderfully for landing. They work wonderfully for reentry as well, as they're far less likely to burn off than parachutes now.

what if you put them at an angle and start spinning? they should work beautifully as propeller, since they give so much lift
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on May 07, 2015, 08:26:16 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 06, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
CoL BEHIND CoM

Your wingdick should buttsex your fatball.
I already know that, I'm trying to say that it flipped anyway no matter what I did.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on May 07, 2015, 09:55:42 am
Post your design, so we can actually see what the problem might be.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SkyMarshal on May 07, 2015, 01:23:34 pm
Goddammit.  I was doing an extended survey of Minmus... and was trying to make sure my antenna had finished transmitting some crew reports I had queued.  I accidentally hit "Transmit Data"... whereupon it grabbed EVERY SCRAP OF SCIENCE (including materials studies, surface samples, and the like) and when I told it, in a panic, to stop transmitting, the shitload of science it stole got eaten.  That was 1000+ science nommed by an antenna :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 07, 2015, 01:49:17 pm
Haha, most realistic simulation in the game.  Enterprise software UX fuckups.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 07, 2015, 03:50:37 pm
Quote from: da_nang on May 07, 2015, 03:32:18 am
Quote from: RedKing on May 06, 2015, 09:36:25 pm
Yeah, I was down at about 30% throttle or below. Like I said, the actual touchdown was fine, it was the braking that left something to be desired. A tail parachute would helped, I suppose though I worry that it would have unanticipated forces causing the plane to jerk off-axis.
I'd imagine the problem was at least one of the wheels not touching the ground when braking. Unbalanced forces create torque.

Solution is to either go for a parachute or aerobrakes. Alternatively, land on flat land.
Yes, you might as well have added "Try not crashing."  :P

I had parachutes on the fuselage, but I was trying my hand at an actual landing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 07, 2015, 04:02:12 pm
"Try not to die!  :D"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 07, 2015, 04:05:38 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on May 07, 2015, 08:26:16 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 06, 2015, 10:09:49 pm
CoL BEHIND CoM

Your wingdick should buttsex your fatball.
I already know that, I'm trying to say that it flipped anyway no matter what I did.
Fuel burnup will move the CoM most likely backward during flight, too much drag in the front end of the craft for the amount of thrust povided? those are the most likely problem you are encountering. I remember using tacfuel? wich allowed me to modify the fuel flow easily, if my front tank were the first to empty up i could set tacfuel to auto move all fuel from everywhere back to the first one, or keep ALL fuel tank balanced at all time stuff like that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 07, 2015, 04:17:36 pm
Don't jet engines take fuel from all available tanks evenly in vanilla now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 07, 2015, 04:38:26 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 07, 2015, 04:48:24 pm
why do i read this THREAD

All it makes me want to do is get the game but I can't for multiple reasons and UGH D:
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: DoomOnion on May 07, 2015, 04:49:54 pm
That's like the opposite of my problem. I have the game, I just suck at it hard and can't play.

Best I could do was make a giant fuel tank that flies and explode mid air.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on May 07, 2015, 05:58:17 pm
Quote from: DoomOnion on May 07, 2015, 04:49:54 pm
That's like the opposite of my problem. I have the game, I just suck at it hard and can't play.

Best I could do was make a giant fuel tank that flies and explode mid air.

I certainly have a few games that are like that.

Ugh! Life and Death 2: The Brain... AHHH!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 07, 2015, 06:30:51 pm
With Macey coming back I was in the mood to make a warship.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's much smaller than my previous endeavors. I've been calling it a corvette, but it's probably closer to a FAC. It's armed with 16 torpedoes and has two nuclear engines with 3700 m/s of delta-v worth of fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 08, 2015, 06:12:12 am
Speaking of Macey Dean style stuff, has anyone ever used Interstellar to make warp-drive torpedoes? That was something I wanted to do but never got around to.

Hopefully I'll get around to figuring out what is needed for it when Interstellar updates to the current version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 09:54:25 am
Interstellar is updated to current, just not by the original author. Two downloads are required.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on May 08, 2015, 11:20:16 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 09:54:25 am
Interstellar is updated to current, just not by the original author. Two downloads are required.

Egh, looks like they're still using the same crappy .24 models for some of the parts. Interstellar needs a rebuild and a simplification, especially considering the new stock heat mechanics and resources...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 11:26:49 am
Most of the original models are fine, barring some bad hitboxes on some. Colors are subdued and fit okay with stock. I prefer the warp drive models, especially the folding one.

The USI warp drive is gawdawful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 08, 2015, 11:45:10 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 11:26:49 am
The USI warp drive is gawdawful.
Pretty sure he made that as a one-off joke, not as a serious mod
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 08, 2015, 12:31:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 09:54:25 am
Interstellar is updated to current, just not by the original author. Two downloads are required.
Any chance you could link to the downloads? Or just where to find the downloads?

As I stated earlier, when looking for unofficial Interstellar stuff there were like five different unofficial ones that all linked to each other and were just a general mindfuck.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 01:12:57 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 08, 2015, 12:31:34 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 09:54:25 am
Interstellar is updated to current, just not by the original author. Two downloads are required.
Any chance you could link to the downloads? Or just where to find the downloads?

As I stated earlier, when looking for unofficial Interstellar stuff there were like five different unofficial ones that all linked to each other and were just a general mindfuck.

I'm on an android tablet. Not as easy to provide links. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111159-WIP-1-0-2-KSP-Interstellar-Extended-1-0-10-%28last-updated-7-5-2015%29-IMPROVED-VISTA-ENGINE%21
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 08, 2015, 02:06:31 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 08, 2015, 11:20:16 am
Interstellar needs a rebuild and a simplification

I'd love them to get rid of the multidimensional research, just unlock better parts as the rest of the game does, and to reduce the fuel madness, I mean, it is nice, but the tank spam is annoying :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 08, 2015, 02:16:29 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 08, 2015, 02:06:31 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on May 08, 2015, 11:20:16 am
Interstellar needs a rebuild and a simplification

I'd love them to get rid of the multidimensional research, just unlock better parts as the rest of the game does, and to reduce the fuel madness, I mean, it is nice, but the tank spam is annoying :(
The research/upgrade mechanic was in place as a holdover from upgrading parts before KSP had any kind of research progression. Afterwards it was kludged in but never really fit well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 02:24:43 pm
The upgrade mechanic was fine, except you were forced into the upgrades which weren't always better for certain missions. Little long lasting nuke power plants were better than hotter shorter nukes for running a research center 24/7. Retrofitting was weird though and a result of a much smaller tech tree. Mechjeb uses an incremental upgrade path that works fine. The multiple tanks was done before B9 had the "next skin" thing to keep part count down. Yes, Interstellar needs serious work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 08, 2015, 02:59:57 pm
...What's interstellar?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 08, 2015, 03:02:39 pm
I think It's a mod that adds warp drives and other sci-fi-y engines to ksp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 03:07:43 pm
Sci-fi not sci-fantasy. It's all theoretically possible tech.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 08, 2015, 03:13:35 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 03:07:43 pm
Sci-fi not sci-fantasy. It's all theoretically possible tech.
You're confusing it with Near Future Technologies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 08, 2015, 03:17:52 pm
Interstellar and near future both contained theoretical tech. Interstellar just went a bit further and plays a bit looser with science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 08, 2015, 03:18:36 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 08, 2015, 03:13:35 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 03:07:43 pm
Sci-fi not sci-fantasy. It's all theoretically possible tech.
You're confusing it with Near Future Technologies.

No he isn't, NFT is stuff that we could probably build right about now if NASA was given any money at all.
Interstellar covers stuff that as he said is THEORETICALLY possible.

Like how it's theoretically possible the government might actually give NASA more funding  ::)
I.E. things that COULD happen, but probably won't. At least not for quite a while.


ERMAHGERD
GUYS
GUYS

HARPOONS GUYS

HARPOONS IN KAS

GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 08, 2015, 03:58:15 pm
Does that mean we can finally shut up those stupid whale songs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 08, 2015, 04:01:16 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 08, 2015, 03:58:15 pm
Does that mean we can finally shut up those stupid whale songs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BjkUtqxPE
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 08, 2015, 04:01:43 pm
KAS has always had the anchor, which required an impact of sufficient force. Not much a stretch to go harpooning.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 08, 2015, 04:43:58 pm
FAR (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/20451-1-0-2-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-15-Euler-5-8-15) has released its new version with new voxel-based airflow and even more realism. I'm excited, but I think I'll wait for more patches to drop and things to stabilize before going on a mod splurge.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 09, 2015, 12:19:11 am
Just did a test run for my intrakerbin shuttle.  Can only take one person, and is only rated for Minimus, but it is fully self sustaining without the need for any outside infrastructure.  Probably won't be able to make an interplanetary version, but I should be able to set up an interplanetary system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 09, 2015, 03:05:04 am
what the heck is a material bay mentioned in contracts? is it the science junior?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 09, 2015, 03:06:49 am
yes, as a quick goog reveals
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 07:02:24 am
So, er, I think know damn well (and should be ashamed of myself) I installed that Interstellar Extended wrong...

Spoiler: HOWFIXDIS? (click to show/hide)

I'm PRETTY sure I just need to put those things in the correct folders at this point, but don't know what should go where.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 09, 2015, 07:07:10 am
Spoiler: this how mine looks (click to show/hide)


everything not listed in my screenshot is probably interstellar's, so move it in game data

btw, server accepts 1.0.2 connections
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2015, 07:19:11 am
derp
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 09, 2015, 07:47:50 am
when it comes to station/outpost contracts, is it allowed to launch them in several parts and the dock them to fulfill the contract? I have an outpost contract requiring 10 kerbals, lab and 4000 units of fuel ( more than 2 standard size rockomax tanks), which is going to be a pain to launch and land, if I am not allowed to dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on May 09, 2015, 08:27:13 am
I think so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 09:17:36 am
Thank you muchly Mr. LoSboccacc, that fixed my derpness to the maximus.

Also, in relation to my "WarpTorp" idea, I just now found out antimatter literally never enters into the equation. All you need for warp drive is a LOT of electricity (megajoules in this case)

So I made my first draft of the WarpTorp and...it is roughly the size of the universe. This is not necessarily conducive to the "being a torpedo" thing.
Gonna have to do more !SCIENCE! to figure out what stuff the actual torpedo can do without. I.E. can I just launch a charged Alcubierre Drive with a probe core and expect it to still have warp functionality?

This will require actually creating a Macey Dean-esque battleship thing as a launch platform. And putting said thing into space, which will be much harder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 09, 2015, 10:40:37 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 09:17:36 am
it is roughly the size of the universe. This is not necessarily conducive to the "being a torpedo" thing.

I dunno. For torpedoes, I'd say bigger is better.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 09, 2015, 10:49:29 am
Quote from: Akura on May 09, 2015, 10:40:37 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 09:17:36 am
it is roughly the size of the universe. This is not necessarily conducive to the "being a torpedo" thing.

I dunno. For torpedoes, I'd say bigger is better.

Yeah, but torpedoes are generally smaller than the thing they're trying to hit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 09, 2015, 11:15:35 am
I finally figured out how to module manager. I've been missing @'s and {}'s all over the place. I'm not modding fuel tanks to be more explodey. *grin*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 01:26:46 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on May 09, 2015, 10:49:29 am
Quote from: Akura on May 09, 2015, 10:40:37 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 09:17:36 am
it is roughly the size of the universe. This is not necessarily conducive to the "being a torpedo" thing.

I dunno. For torpedoes, I'd say bigger is better.

Yeah, but torpedoes are generally smaller than the thing they're trying to hit.
Also supposed to be smaller then the thing that is launching them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 09, 2015, 02:00:01 pm
So, I started modding, and everything is working fine.  Except for Chatterer.  It isn't breaking anything, or working weirdly.  It just isn't working.  I'm not getting any sounds, and the button on the top isn't there.  Anyone else had this problem, or have any suggestions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 09, 2015, 02:59:11 pm
I just got hit by a weird bug. While coming in for a landing with my SSTO, part of it registered as colliding with one of the space centre buildings while being nowhere near it. This happened twice, destroying both the building and part of the plane. The first time I was just above the ground and it caused an entire wing to explode. The pilot survived but the 4 tourists in the passenger compartment died, so I loaded a quicksave. The second time I made it down onto the runway before it happened. Fortunately the buildings were only the small decorative kind, so it wasn't much of a loss. I just hope it doesn't keep happening.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 09, 2015, 03:01:07 pm
You can set the buildings to be indestructible, although that won't stop you from hitting them. Or hitting an invisible wall that isn't supposed to be there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 09, 2015, 03:15:56 pm
I've not hit invisible walls, but sometimes small features take out my cars.  things like light posts and other random decorative bumps. 

Once I ran into a lamp pole and destroyed the entire Mission Control building.  I hadn't seen it at the time, and assumed it was a terrain clipping bug or something, but after rebuilding the facility I realized what I had actually hit.

I thought stage recovery was working in stock now?  I attached probe cores and parachutes to boosters, and if I stay near the ground they will land and be okay... but the physics range is still not sufficient to track even one stage of SRB's to the ground before despawning them, if you are continuing to accelerate away.

Does anyone know of a stock workaround for this?  I don't really want to add the stage recovery mod if I can avoid it.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2015, 03:17:47 pm
Nope, by stock anything dropped off is simply deleted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on May 09, 2015, 03:41:27 pm
Stage Recovery is pretty OP (by my opinion) anyways. If done right, you really only have to worry about fuel costs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2015, 03:49:05 pm
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on May 09, 2015, 03:41:27 pm
Stage Recovery is pretty OP (by my opinion) anyways. If done right, you really only have to worry about fuel costs.
How's that?

You have to spend more to include parachutes, and their weight causes you to need even more thrust/fuel
You almost never get 100% of your cash back
There is a flat chance that recovered parts are still destroyed
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on May 09, 2015, 03:57:38 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 01:26:46 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on May 09, 2015, 10:49:29 am
Quote from: Akura on May 09, 2015, 10:40:37 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 09, 2015, 09:17:36 am
it is roughly the size of the universe. This is not necessarily conducive to the "being a torpedo" thing.

I dunno. For torpedoes, I'd say bigger is better.

Yeah, but torpedoes are generally smaller than the thing they're trying to hit.
Also supposed to be smaller then the thing that is launching them.
NOT DWARVEN ENOUGH!!!
(http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/navy-hub/navy-history/steel--steam/torpedo-boat.jpg)Thats closer to what torp should be, there is no kill if there is no overkill. Hell dont we atom-smash gobbo for fun?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 09, 2015, 04:07:09 pm
Persistent Rotation (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/113507-1-0-x-PersistentRotation-0-5-0) has updated to 1.02, and no longer requires Toolbar.

I've started integrating the rocket equation into designing and flying my ships; I'm pulling off orbital docking so quickly and effortlessly it's shocking, and problems that once seemed insurmountable are now becoming routine. I might be getting good at this game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 09, 2015, 04:08:00 pm
You've been able to put probe cores and parachutes on discarded stages for a while, but the physics range was only like 5km before.  now i think its 20-some km. 

Things in flight and in atmosphere despawn, but if it reaches the ground then it is safe.  I was hoping someone had a trick with low deployment altitude parachutes or other such cleverness, that would let them reach the ground in a reasonable time.  medium sized SRB's might not be a big deal, but if your first stage is KD25K's or high end liquid engines, it's good to be able to make some sort of recovery.

The problem for me is that I tend to want to lift such heavy things, that every little bit of weight is significant.  If I ditch a first stage early enough to land safely before im 20k off the ground, it probably wont be big enough to be valuable (though I guess a dozen SRBs start to add up).  Or I wont want to waste the weight on retrorockets.

And say we're talking about those KD25Ks... Adding a flea retrorocket and parachutes nearly doubles the price and adds about 1.5 tons.  Seems like it isnt really worth it.

Would be a different story for a cluster of Mammoths or something, but I can't imagine any way to get those to the ground safely... Or really any scenario where I would ditch them before I was at least 10-15km up, and then theres no way they'd reach the ground before I got past 20.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 09, 2015, 05:39:33 pm
Yeah, and I tried putting chutes on them, and I was able to recover the ones I dropped immediately after launching, but... there was no refund or anything for recovering them in stock. Putting a probe core on them worked, but that added even more expense, and worrying they'd run out of energy - and it wouldn't work once I was getting into orbit anyways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 10, 2015, 12:18:47 am
you get the refund (watch your funds level) but you just dont get the popup message.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 11:52:13 am
I can't create rockets for putting very heavy stuff into LKO (4000-5000 m/s Δv at least) that aren't overcomplicated and completely uncontrollable contraptions with double or even triple asparagus staging and truckloads of struts, solid fuel boosters, Vernor engines and delta-wings.
Does anyone have any tips on constructing reliable super-heavy launch vehicles?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 11:52:13 am
I can't create rockets for putting very heavy stuff into LKO (4000-5000 m/s Δv at least) that aren't overcomplicated and completely uncontrollable contraptions with double or even triple asparagus staging and truckloads of struts, solid fuel boosters, Vernor engines and delta-wings.
Does anyone have any tips on constructing reliable super-heavy launch vehicles?

Engineer or MechJeb so that you know what your dV will be as you build. You can build very simple lifters with 2.5m parts that will get 100+ tons to orbit. Look up "Zenith Lifter" and see how they're built. The craft files are too old to work properly. Zenith's are asparagus. Munshine has nice designs. They are super simple two stage affairs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 12:46:54 pm
Is there a way to get steam to automatically play the 32 bit version?  64 bit breaks my mods, and going through the launcher every time I want to play is annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 10, 2015, 12:52:59 pm
Finally made an LF-only SSTO spaceplane. It's pretty neat! Doesn't do much besides reach orbit and get back right now, but works!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/Screenshots/screenshot324.png)

That poor little front wheel was glowing yellow after reaching orbit. Without the temperature overlay, it was just near meltdown. I had to stay in orbit for a while just so the poor thing could cool off.

Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 12:46:54 pm
Is there a way to get steam to automatically play the 32 bit version?  64 bit breaks my mods, and going through the launcher every time I want to play is annoying.
Update to the latest version. As of 0.90, 64-bit KSP does not exist on Windows.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 01:35:04 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 10, 2015, 12:52:59 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 12:46:54 pm
Is there a way to get steam to automatically play the 32 bit version?  64 bit breaks my mods, and going through the launcher every time I want to play is annoying.
Update to the latest version. As of 0.90, 64-bit KSP does not exist on Windows.
Are you sure?  The launcher has a setting that lets you play or not play 64 bit, and unclicking that makes my mods actually appear on the toolbar. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 01:36:22 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 10, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
Munshine has nice designs. They are super simple two stage affairs.

Tried to replicate Munshine designs - they are completely uncontrollable, just like my other rockets. In the previous versions, I usually ragequit at that point and never touched KSP until the release of a new version, because anything more difficult than flying to Minmus requires very complex rockets that I simply can't construct.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 10, 2015, 01:40:47 pm
What is this 'launcher' of which you speak?

This is my largest rocket so far, uses asparagus staging, dropping two boosters on opposite sides at a time so it remains balanced. I have fuel lines connecting the tanks to the engines through the separators, and another connecting the central fuel tank to the bottom-most engine, a Skipper. Above that is a Poodle and a separator, so when it reaches space I can just dump the Skipper and use the remaining fuel with the Poodle. (Getting the fuel line to connect required a bit of a trick)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I forgot to put the basic fins back on after the last modification to it, but then it turned out to fly just fine without them, so I've left them off.

I think there are probably better designs, though, especially if you have mainsails, nuclear engines, and/or ion. I don't have any of those yet. (And if you have non-shit solar panel tech)

P.S. I think SAS may be important.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 10, 2015, 01:41:52 pm
Ran into an interesting bug.

Tourists dont seem to complete their mission criteria if they are not in focus.  At least not for flybys.

I had two ships full of tourists, one returning from Mun and the other on the way.  I switched focus to land the returning ship, and while I was doing that the other entered the Mun's SOI.

It should have achieved the 'flyby' criteria as soon as it entered the SOI, but since it was not in focus it did not mark that as accomplished for the three passengers.  After switching back, there wasn't anything i could do to get it to fill the criteria.

So i reloaded a quick save, and made sure the ship was in focus as it entered the Mun SOI.  This time, it filled the criteria correctly.  Found another forum thread of someone complaining of something similar, so I'm pretty sure this will reproduce.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 10, 2015, 01:43:13 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 01:36:22 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 10, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
Munshine has nice designs. They are super simple two stage affairs.

Tried to replicate Munshine designs - they are completely uncontrollable, just like my other rockets. In the previous versions, I usually ragequit at that point and never touched KSP until the release of a new version, because anything more difficult than flying to Minmus requires very complex rockets that I simply can't construct.

You might be building too tall or too fat at the tip. That can easily fail in a gravity turn no matter how much gyroscope torque you have. I've had flipouts with fat fairings. Try overbuilding Munshine and just going straight up, then turn over outside the major atmospheric drag. Take a 50 ton payload on a 80+ ton payload lifter. It shouldn't cost much more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 01:47:28 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 10, 2015, 01:40:47 pm
What is this 'launcher' of which you speak?
There is a launcher.exe that you can click, which lets you view recent KSP news, along with editing setting and letting you start the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 10, 2015, 01:56:56 pm
Whatever option the launcher provides, KSP no longer ships with a 64-bit executable for Windows. It was dropped due to inadequate support for 64-bit Windows builds of Unity.

Also, this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/328-The-future-of-Windows-64-bit-builds-for-KSP
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 10, 2015, 02:26:15 pm
Quote from: puke on May 10, 2015, 01:41:52 pm
Ran into an interesting bug.

Tourists dont seem to complete their mission criteria if they are not in focus.  At least not for flybys.

I had two ships full of tourists, one returning from Mun and the other on the way.  I switched focus to land the returning ship, and while I was doing that the other entered the Mun's SOI.

It should have achieved the 'flyby' criteria as soon as it entered the SOI, but since it was not in focus it did not mark that as accomplished for the three passengers.  After switching back, there wasn't anything i could do to get it to fill the criteria.

So i reloaded a quick save, and made sure the ship was in focus as it entered the Mun SOI.  This time, it filled the criteria correctly.  Found another forum thread of someone complaining of something similar, so I'm pretty sure this will reproduce.
I also will confirm this behaviour. Tourists need to be in focus to fulfil a flyby.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on May 10, 2015, 06:12:57 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 11:52:13 am
truckloads of struts

I was launching parts & propellant for my (sandbox) space station and attempted to fly this thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The first stage consists of fifty-two J-X4 ramjets in pods of 13 glued on with a TT-38K decoupler and a web of stuts. Other than slowing the game to a crawl, it flew like a dream to about 20km, where I attempted to transition to rockets. One of the rocket engines apparently had no fuel or oxidizer feed and the asymmetric thrust left the wrong end pointed at space.

Spoiler: It kicks up a mess of dust (click to show/hide)

I fixed the problem by deleting & re-adding the problem engine and its three siblings, but due to the performance impact of the 52 engines, the next launch used a more sensible booster arrangement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 10, 2015, 08:37:11 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 10, 2015, 01:56:56 pm
Whatever option the launcher provides, KSP no longer ships with a 64-bit executable for Windows. It was dropped due to inadequate support for 64-bit Windows builds of Unity.

Also, this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/328-The-future-of-Windows-64-bit-builds-for-KSP
Huh. Also, for some reason, now my mods are working again over in my steam library, without needing to go into any weirdness with the launcher.  Still have to go through the launcher for my copy.  I have absolutely no idea what was going on.  I guess I accidentally clicked on something when I was first trying to turn 32 bit on.
Whatever it was, it is now time for me to start building a chain of stations and bases that will let me send a manned mission to Eve. This mission would be helped a lot more if my rockets would stop colliding with each other on stage separation.  Which I could probably fix with a few hundred seperatons but that requires way, way, way too much work. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 10, 2015, 10:37:43 pm
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on May 10, 2015, 11:52:13 am
I can't create rockets for putting very heavy stuff into LKO (4000-5000 m/s Δv at least) that aren't overcomplicated and completely uncontrollable contraptions with double or even triple asparagus staging and truckloads of struts, solid fuel boosters, Vernor engines and delta-wings.
Does anyone have any tips on constructing reliable super-heavy launch vehicles?
Are your rockets very wobbly?
I've discovered that only fuel tanks and very large engines and boosters actually have any decent structural strength, you would think that squad would realise that 2.5 meter inline SAS modules might need to be as strong as the rest of the rocket to not wobble the damn thing apart.
You could install joint reinforcement, or manually add    breakingForce = 50 and breakingTorque = 50 under the crash tolerance line of the config file for the offending parts.
Edit: Just finished a heavy lifter:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
624.1 tons, 76.8 ton payload. Mass fraction of 12.3% 72.8m high.
Reached 75x75 km orbit with 320 dv to spare. About 3300 dv to reach orbit.
Design is less than ideal, particularly in regards to severe instability around the large SAS and engine cowlings.
The solution was quad triangular stabilization struts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another issue was boosters colliding with the bottom radial engines. Solution was sepratrons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note that it is entirely possible for the heat from these to detonate a fuel tank, particularly an empty one, altering thrust may be required. Also note the struts on the boosters, they were unstable.
Another issue was the top launch clamps colliding with the solid boosters. I used small radial separators and baby cubic struts  for the required clearance.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The separation debris does tend to collide with things, but they're light enough to not be fatal... so far.
Lastly a closeup of the payload. Nothing special, 45 tons of ore, a poodle and enough fuel for 1030 dv, should be enough to reach the mun or duna. Contains a docking port for access, and antenna because remotetech.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Very important is the large battery and pair of solar panels. I used mechjeb to reach orbit and without the batteries ran out of change before MJ started the circularization burn.
As I'm a terrible builder this took me about 2 hours. Use of 3 meter parts would almost certainly be more efficient,
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 11, 2015, 12:29:35 am
Well, I have discovered a new hobby.  Blowing up space stations.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 11, 2015, 08:31:28 am
cute.  whats the mod that provides that inventory and object use system?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 11, 2015, 08:35:22 am
Quote from: puke on May 11, 2015, 08:31:28 am
cute.  whats the mod that provides that inventory and object use system?

KIS, an extension of KAS by the same people. Kerbal Inventory System.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 11, 2015, 10:51:03 am
Does that supersede KAS?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 11, 2015, 10:53:26 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 11, 2015, 10:51:03 am
Does that supersede KAS?
KAS is basically going to become a parts pack which uses KIS
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 11, 2015, 11:17:34 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 11, 2015, 12:29:35 am
Well, I have discovered a new hobby.  Blowing up space stations.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Mission accomplished. Uh... hey, how long is it going to be before I'm picked up out here?"

Quote from: MarcAFK on May 10, 2015, 10:37:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another issue was boosters colliding with the bottom radial engines. Solution was sepratrons.

I've had problems with that before, and I found a solution in using structural pylons, the ones that decouple. They tend to cause the booster to fall away rather than drop vertically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 11, 2015, 06:24:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 11, 2015, 08:35:22 am
Quote from: puke on May 11, 2015, 08:31:28 am
cute.  whats the mod that provides that inventory and object use system?

KIS, an extension of KAS by the same people. Kerbal Inventory System.

*NERDGASMS OVER THE EVERYTHING*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 11, 2015, 06:45:20 pm
Quote from: Akura on May 11, 2015, 11:17:34 am
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 11, 2015, 12:29:35 am
Well, I have discovered a new hobby.  Blowing up space stations.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Mission accomplished. Uh... hey, how long is it going to be before I'm picked up out here?"

Quote from: MarcAFK on May 10, 2015, 10:37:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another issue was boosters colliding with the bottom radial engines. Solution was sepratrons.

I've had problems with that before, and I found a solution in using structural pylons, the ones that decouple. They tend to cause the booster to fall away rather than drop vertically.
"We included enough materials for a small liferaft in your supply cache aboard the station.  You and your fellow operative will be enough to put it together." "..." "You forgot to pay attention during the briefing, didn't you?"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 11, 2015, 08:54:43 pm
I was feeling nostalgic so I went back to some of the very early releases and did a Mun mission. It was refreshing to return to flying by eye and designing rockets through gut feeling and experience without any math to back it up. I got the encounter easily and had plenty of fuel for a landing and return, but in true early KSP fashion, I landed on a slight incline which caused the `lander`to tip over and the engine to fall off. Ah, brings back memories.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 11, 2015, 11:41:54 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 11, 2015, 06:24:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 11, 2015, 08:35:22 am
Quote from: puke on May 11, 2015, 08:31:28 am
cute.  whats the mod that provides that inventory and object use system?

KIS, an extension of KAS by the same people. Kerbal Inventory System.

*NERDGASMS OVER THE EVERYTHING*

Another modder made a science backpack that uses KIS. I forget its name. Not at my main computer now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 12, 2015, 02:27:10 am
Got land speed record of 442 m/s I think with my jet car. Will upload pics tomorrow.

I also tried to ssto into space, but underwent rapid unplanned disassembly because I forgot to set a hotkey for turning off the jets. Then the laptop ran out of juice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 12, 2015, 03:34:50 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 11, 2015, 08:54:43 pm
I was feeling nostalgic so I went back to some of the very early releases and did a Mun mission. It was refreshing to return to flying by eye and designing rockets through gut feeling and experience without any math to back it up

This is why I play without the mecha/engineering/calculator/autopilot mods that everyone seems to use.  For me, the game is most fun trying to eyeball things and shooting from the hip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 12, 2015, 03:52:40 am
HEY I TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT

nah just kidding it's perfectly fine to play any game any way you want and mods only facilitate that goal GO TEAM PLAY-HOW-YOU-WANT
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 08:11:03 am
Quote from: puke on May 12, 2015, 03:34:50 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 11, 2015, 08:54:43 pm
I was feeling nostalgic so I went back to some of the very early releases and did a Mun mission. It was refreshing to return to flying by eye and designing rockets through gut feeling and experience without any math to back it up

This is why I play without the mecha/engineering/calculator/autopilot mods that everyone seems to use.  For me, the game is most fun trying to eyeball things and shooting from the hip.

I definitely see the appeal in this as someone who's been playing since before the Mun was added, but I'm horrible at calculating stuff so I pretty much always relied on tips and walkthru's to actually send a craft anywhere.

I still don't use any autopilot type mods (mostly because I've never had any luck getting them to install correctly and they always come with a bunch of extraneous crap I don't want).  But I am considering it with the gameplay requirements of Career mode.  Namely the fact that I find myself flying identical missions to build up science points or stockpile money with tourist flights.  Having something to at least refly the tedious missions for me would be pretty great.  Space-station assembly is another good candidate since I hate trying to plot orbital rendezvous, always get the intercept wrong by a kilometer and then everything I do afterwards just pushes it further apart.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2015, 08:27:49 am
mostly I use it for dv, I have very limited gaming time so trial and error is not just unfun to me, it's aggravating.

I mean, I can eyeball mun/minums requirements, but beyond that it's annoying to miss duna by 100dv missing. that's a hour wasted and I have not many :(

I agree that failures are part of the fun, but I prefer to fail messing up spectacularly staging order, the descent burn or anything that is actually my fault and result of a direct action, failing one hour in because I missied 100dv at construction time is just annoying to me
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 12, 2015, 08:29:22 am
I use engineer for delta-v calculation and planning, I use mechjeb to calculate transfers and orbital maneuvers. I still fly everything manually, with all the expected fuckups that come with that.

I know mechjeb has a delta-v calculation as well but I have found engineer's to be much more precise and better about staging detection
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 12, 2015, 08:44:28 am
I use mechjeb with sandbox when I'm testing stuff, usually modded parts, I can just turn on auto whatever and watch things get done automatically.
Saves me some time for finding errors, I have more fun building things ,and tend to screw up  WSADQE at critical points during launch anyway :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 12, 2015, 08:58:58 am
I use Mechjeb for getting into orbit.  I've done several hundred, if not over a thousand, launches, and after a while they all start to blend together.  Five to ten minutes of watching a fuel gauge slowly trickle down with my finger on the space bar.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 09:45:56 am
I made another LF-only SSTO spaceplane! It can now dock and deliver small cargo! :D

(http://i.imgur.com/3lxNeNP.png) (http://imgur.com/a/WIHV1)
(click for imgur album)

And that probably sums up my disposition towards any flight assist plugins. For me, making a spacecraft, flying it, identifying the issues it has, painstakingly remaking it, and flying it again, is the perfect KSP experience. Every launch is unique, every design is a unique building experience. I don't need shortcuts through my favorite parts of the game. :)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 12, 2015, 09:53:06 am
How do you guys arm your space fighters? I can't figure out a way that makes it not super painful to launch missiles which also allows re-arming planes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 12, 2015, 09:54:03 am
Besides BD Armory?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 12, 2015, 10:23:26 am
The easiest way to rearm would be to open the craft file and paste new missiles onto the docking rings, if you're apt for that kind of thing.
Otherwise tedium is the name of the game. Quicksaves are also quite helpful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:40:40 am
If your missiles are under-wing and are attached by side-mounted docking ports, you could have a reloader craft. A specialized rig that holds a full complement of missiles attached by docking ports on the other side, that you maneuver into place, multi-dock with the craft (putting all missiles in their places), and undock to leave the craft fully reloaded. If you pre-set the missile engines to the same action groups as your craft used, they will even still launch with those action groups.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 12, 2015, 12:21:32 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 12, 2015, 09:53:06 am
How do you guys arm your space fighters? I can't figure out a way that makes it not super painful to launch missiles which also allows re-arming planes...
Well if you use Kerbal Construction Time mod you can recover vessels after landing them, modify them (aka add missiles) and then relaunch them only paying the difference in cost + a little time
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2015, 02:35:57 pm
anyone know what's causing this issue or had seen it on the mod section before?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

it's either one of distant object enhancement, environmental visual enhancements or planet shine
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 12, 2015, 02:36:29 pm
Here we are;

(http://i.imgur.com/0zMguV5.png)

Jeb didn't survive, but he definitely enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: True-Chaos on May 12, 2015, 03:29:52 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 12, 2015, 02:35:57 pm
anyone know what's causing this issue or had seen it on the mod section before?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

it's either one of distant object enhancement, environmental visual enhancements or planet shine

While not one of your options... I've had Scatter cause that when I'm running in OpenGL mode
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 12, 2015, 03:31:19 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 09:45:56 am
I made another LF-only SSTO spaceplane! It can now dock and deliver small cargo! :D

(http://i.imgur.com/3lxNeNP.png) (http://imgur.com/a/WIHV1)
(click for imgur album)

And that probably sums up my disposition towards any flight assist plugins. For me, making a spacecraft, flying it, identifying the issues it has, painstakingly remaking it, and flying it again, is the perfect KSP experience. Every launch is unique, every design is a unique building experience. I don't need shortcuts through my favorite parts of the game. :)
Right, this image alone has inspired me to hurry the fuck up on fixing my laptop so I can get KSP and get to space-ing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 12, 2015, 06:18:52 pm
Download FAR if you want to go really fucking far, got it. O_o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 12, 2015, 07:53:00 pm
Making a VTOL is really, really hard. You have to look at the centers of thrusts, weight, and lift all simultaneously, and from multiple angles.    It can take off, but you can't use SAS, and you have to maintain very, very precise control.  The moment I make a mistake the whole thing goes into an uncontrollable spin.  I haven't lose anyone doing so yet, because it has yet to go high and the engines are all pointing downwards, but it is still not recoverable.  In addition, Infernal Robotics is being weird, and no matter what I do it won't save my settings from the spaceplane hanger. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 08:18:02 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 09:45:56 am
I made another LF-only SSTO spaceplane! It can now dock and deliver small cargo! :D

I like the five ramjets with low and high altitude scoops.  But just nuclear engines for space propulsion?  Obviously that's enough to get from the top of the atmosphere into orbit, but is there a trick to your approach angle or something?  It looks like you were going almost vertical at that stage, but I would have thought you'd be maintaining shallow flight as long as possible to build up lateral speed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 12, 2015, 08:20:50 pm
Quote from: Ispil on May 12, 2015, 03:48:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, FTL travel in KSP is a thing. Just download FAR and somehow break all the things. She's traveling at 1 petameter per second, roughly.

The wake of her superluminal flight did not treat Kerbin kindly:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm getting consistent at FTL travel. Slower, but still going stupid fast.
I'm waiting for someone to mod in the Time Vortex.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 12, 2015, 09:00:43 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 12, 2015, 07:53:00 pm
Making a VTOL is really, really hard... It can take off, but you can't use SAS...
Why can't you use SAS? I use SAS on my VTOLs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 12, 2015, 09:40:32 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on May 12, 2015, 09:00:43 pm
Quote from: Lightningfalcon on May 12, 2015, 07:53:00 pm
Making a VTOL is really, really hard... It can take off, but you can't use SAS...
Why can't you use SAS? I use SAS on my VTOLs.
Because the whole thing just flips over if that happens.  Right now it is a series of fuel tanks with an inline cockpit, four rapier engines mounted on those VTOL things from Infernal Robotics, and two nuclear engines in the back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 08:18:02 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 09:45:56 am
I made another LF-only SSTO spaceplane! It can now dock and deliver small cargo! :D

I like the five ramjets with low and high altitude scoops.  But just nuclear engines for space propulsion?  Obviously that's enough to get from the top of the atmosphere into orbit, but is there a trick to your approach angle or something?  It looks like you were going almost vertical at that stage, but I would have thought you'd be maintaining shallow flight as long as possible to build up lateral speed.
With LV-N's, the trick is actually altitude. No matter how you slice it, you can't exit the atmosphere on turbojets going faster than 1300m/s, and you can't use turbojets above some 22km. So what you do on ascent, is buy yourself time to accelerate using the Nervas' very low thrust.

My ascent profile looks like this:
From runway, fire turbojets at half throttle. Take off and pitch up 40 degrees.
Maintain half throttle until about 4-5km. Punch it to full throttle to begin accelerating. Maintain pitch.
At 10km, stage to fire NERVAs. They're almost fully efficient at that altitude and every little bit helps. Adjust pitch to 45 degrees.
Keep going until your turbojets run out of air, then turn them off and close all intakes. With a properly built design you'll be flying at at least 1200m/s. Keep full throttle on the NERVAs.
Adjust pitch to be slightly above your prograde vector. Once you clear the bulk of the atmosphere at some 45km, adjust pitch to be halfway between your prograde, and your trajectory normal vector.
Keep adjusting your pitch to be somewhere between the prograde and the normal as you reach apoapsis. You'll reach some 120-125km, still going at about 1200-1300m/s.
Continue doing this as you start losing altitude. If everything goes right, you will eventually circularize at some 90km.

This is a very inefficient ascent profile. With any other setup, you would never want to use it. However, you can't have many LV-Ns due to overheat, and you are stuck carrying a lot of dead weight in turbojets, so an efficient ascent profile doesn't leave you enough time to make orbit, and you aren't carrying any oxidizer, by design, to boost you up with conventional rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on May 12, 2015, 10:36:48 pm
Wow, okay. I think the game hates me. I'm on my return trip from my first minmus flyby, when suddenly, without any thrust at all, I get a Mun encounter that sends me into a Kerbin escape trajectory.

I honestly don't even know how that's possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 10:45:16 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
This is a very inefficient ascent profile. With any other setup, you would never want to use it. However, you can't have many LV-Ns due to overheat, and you are stuck carrying a lot of dead weight in turbojets, so an efficient ascent profile doesn't leave you enough time to make orbit, and you aren't carrying any oxidizer, by design, to boost you up with conventional rockets.

So the takeaway here is, SSTO is very efficient from an engineering standpoint, but very inefficient from an activity standpoint.  Sounds like the design would be really hard to scale up from the utility plane you demonstrated too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:52:53 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 10:45:16 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
This is a very inefficient ascent profile. With any other setup, you would never want to use it. However, you can't have many LV-Ns due to overheat, and you are stuck carrying a lot of dead weight in turbojets, so an efficient ascent profile doesn't leave you enough time to make orbit, and you aren't carrying any oxidizer, by design, to boost you up with conventional rockets.

So the takeaway here is, SSTO is very efficient from an engineering standpoint, but very inefficient from an activity standpoint.  Sounds like the design would be really hard to scale up from the utility plane you demonstrated too.

You could make it efficient by actually using oxidizer and proper rockets, or RAPIERs. Trying to make orbit on LiquidFuel alone is what's making it so inefficient. But the payoff is that you have maximum fuel space for the NERVAs, and once you refuel you can go pretty far. Like, Laythe far, if you really push it, though you'd have to refuel there again for the return trip.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 13, 2015, 12:14:51 am
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:52:53 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 12, 2015, 10:45:16 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
This is a very inefficient ascent profile. With any other setup, you would never want to use it. However, you can't have many LV-Ns due to overheat, and you are stuck carrying a lot of dead weight in turbojets, so an efficient ascent profile doesn't leave you enough time to make orbit, and you aren't carrying any oxidizer, by design, to boost you up with conventional rockets.

So the takeaway here is, SSTO is very efficient from an engineering standpoint, but very inefficient from an activity standpoint.  Sounds like the design would be really hard to scale up from the utility plane you demonstrated too.

You could make it efficient by actually using oxidizer and proper rockets, or RAPIERs. Trying to make orbit on LiquidFuel alone is what's making it so inefficient. But the payoff is that you have maximum fuel space for the NERVAs, and once you refuel you can go pretty far. Like, Laythe far, if you really push it, though you'd have to refuel there again for the return trip.
To do list:
Set up fuel production on lathe.
Fuel tankers in orbit for refuelling SSTOs.
Make working SSTO.
Finishing screwing with MKS config files without invoking the kraken and breaking the universe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 13, 2015, 12:33:47 am
That is pretty close to my current plan.  Once I can get this VTOL working, I'm going to start my expedition.  First will be the deployment of a drone platform that will be used to find prime landing sites, along with setting up beacons.  Second will be the deployment of multiple mining vehicles.  Next will be the positioning of a space station equipped with an ISRU convertor.  Finally, VTOLs will be used to transport ore from the surface to orbit to be used as fuel, by using KIS to hopefully move ore from the miners to the VTOLs.  So far the only part that I know will work are the drone platforms.  I was able to get one into orbit around Duna with four rockomax and mainsail engines remaining.  Sadly, the actual probes were useless because it had zero capability to turn around, and while I could have turned around the rocket the platform was attached to, I had already saved after decoupling from it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on May 13, 2015, 06:38:31 am
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on May 12, 2015, 10:36:48 pm
Wow, okay. I think the game hates me. I'm on my return trip from my first minmus flyby, when suddenly, without any thrust at all, I get a Mun encounter that sends me into a Kerbin escape trajectory.

I honestly don't even know how that's possible.
Gravity assists are potentially incredibly fun. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 13, 2015, 07:12:03 am
And dont forget to check those bodies that get in the way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordSlowpoke on May 13, 2015, 07:21:48 am
do remind me, do we still have that bay mp ksp server going on? what is the most commonly used mod for that nowadays?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 07:34:18 am
that's the server : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

currently running "unmodded" 1.0.2 campaign (you can still use non part mods, like mechjeb and engineering for all)


this evening I'll collect the mods poll results and prepare a ckan configuration for it

I was thinking on a big inauguration event with the launch of the first kerbin science station - I don't know how many unlocked docking parts but it should be easy enough for all to get on board and get some science while doing it!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 13, 2015, 09:56:25 am
Where do I want my centers of thrust, mass, and lift to stop my planes from flopping around? Finally fiddling a bit with planes in career mode (not many parts yet) and I keep lifting off then flipping over...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Puzzlemaker on May 13, 2015, 09:58:13 am
Center of mass slightly in front of center of lift, all three lined up in a row.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 13, 2015, 10:05:47 am
So Mass, then Lift, then Thrust?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 13, 2015, 10:11:41 am
This is a very good tutorial on it...for an older version so some of the aerodynamics stuff it references has changed but its all still accurate when t comes to plane designs

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 13, 2015, 10:53:42 am
Well, I finally did most I could do in the kerbin system, and am ready to leave it. While I already have a small probe travelling to Duna, I want to step up to manned missions, which are going to require a larger craft.

I was thinking about a modular ship, assembled in orbit.
a command module with crew and habitats ( an hitchicker module or 2, they need space to move)
a service module with electricity generation and storage, monopropellant, oxydizer to refuel the lander, antenna ( and liquid fuel, but all stages will have liquid fuel)
a mining module, with drills and ISRU module, plus an orbital mineral scanner, possibly a ground scanner and of course fuel tanks ( meant to land on small moons to extract fuel, able to fly independently, possibly as an escape craft in case I don't find viable minerals and I don't have enough Dv to return the whole craft)
an engine module, with nuclear engines ( was thinking 6 considering the size, although heat exchange may be a killer)
a lander, obviously, at least Duna rated

Do you think the plan is complete? I was thinking perhaps of angling the nuclear engines outward and adding an MK3 ablator plate behind them, to allow for aerobraking. How horribly dangerous is that?
Should I add another fuel module in there?

edit: Was thinking of making a last minmus mission to unlock the vernor engine and use that. Is the extra thrust and simplified logistics of not using monopropellant worth it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 13, 2015, 11:09:42 am
Quote from: dennislp3 on May 13, 2015, 10:11:41 am
This is a very good tutorial on it...for an older version so some of the aerodynamics stuff it references has changed but its all still accurate when t comes to plane designs

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As a note, anything he says requires FAR to work will work roughly as explained in KSP now. Specifically, swept wings and aerodynamic surfaces are more important than minimizing parts to minimize drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 13, 2015, 12:14:56 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 07:34:18 am
I was thinking on a big inauguration event with the launch of the first kerbin science station - I don't know how many unlocked docking parts but it should be easy enough for all to get on board and get some science while doing it!
Oh, um... oops. I just built a small science station. Want me to deorbit it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 12:21:18 pm
no worries! just saw that. it will be our hub!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 13, 2015, 12:26:15 pm
Okay then. You can rename it if you want. Right now it has a crew capsule, a lab and enough solar panels to power it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 13, 2015, 12:59:25 pm
That's a great tutorial, thanks!

And on a very serious note, does anyone else find themselves talking to mission control when playing KSP? Announcing stage separations, doing countdowns, giving etas etc.? Or am I the only crazy one here...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 01:09:20 pm
you need chatterer then, to feel less alone.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92324-1-0-2-Chatterer-v-0-9-1-02-May-2015
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2015, 02:18:24 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 01:09:20 pm
you need chatterer IRC then, to feel less alone.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/101868-1-0-0-Internet-Relay-Chat-Continued-0-9-0-1-27-04-15
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 13, 2015, 02:25:01 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 07:34:18 am
that's the server : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

currently running "unmodded" 1.0.2 campaign (you can still use non part mods, like mechjeb and engineering for all)


this evening I'll collect the mods poll results and prepare a ckan configuration for it

I was thinking on a big inauguration event with the launch of the first kerbin science station - I don't know how many unlocked docking parts but it should be easy enough for all to get on board and get some science while doing it!
WAIT WHAT
KSP HAS MP?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 13, 2015, 02:28:02 pm
Quote from: KingofstarrySkies on May 13, 2015, 02:25:01 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 07:34:18 am
that's the server : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150285.0

currently running "unmodded" 1.0.2 campaign (you can still use non part mods, like mechjeb and engineering for all)


this evening I'll collect the mods poll results and prepare a ckan configuration for it

I was thinking on a big inauguration event with the launch of the first kerbin science station - I don't know how many unlocked docking parts but it should be easy enough for all to get on board and get some science while doing it!
WAIT WHAT
KSP HAS MP?

Kinda. Officially, sometime in the future. For now, mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 13, 2015, 02:28:11 pm
yes and you are welcome! hop in and get some science so you can come and join the bay 12 only bar orbiting an alien planet!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 13, 2015, 06:53:18 pm
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on May 12, 2015, 09:45:56 am
I made another LF-only SSTO spaceplane! It can now dock and deliver small cargo! :D

Well, my attempt at the design didn't work, but you have to admit it looks pretty badass.

Spoiler: Big Bird (click to show/hide)

Despite having more engine power than the plane designed by an actual engineer, this design barely clears 800m/s by the time it runs out of breath, and three Nerva's have basically no affect on its velocity.  The obvious problem is that it's way too damn heavy with a lot of extraneous parts.  I've been playing version 1.0 for about three hours, so I don't have a good handle on the new physics yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 13, 2015, 07:05:29 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on May 13, 2015, 06:53:18 pm
but you have to admit it looks pretty badass.

NEVER! :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 14, 2015, 11:14:16 am
I recently designed a plane, shame I didn't grab a screenshot. It's not spaceplane. I think I should name it the Firebird since throttling up over 25% makes it glow a fiery red... from air friction. Actually, going too fast rips off the wings... but it can still fly. ...Until the air intakes explode from the heat.

I am amazed that spaceplanes are apparently a whole lot cheaper than vertical rockets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2015, 03:05:17 pm
KAS (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92514-1-0-2-Kerbal-Attachment-System-%28KAS%29-0-5-0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2015, 03:31:14 pm
Finally KIS is in a stable enough state to use!

Is Infernal Robotics up yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2015, 04:06:48 pm
IR was up a week plus ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2015, 04:18:24 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 14, 2015, 04:06:48 pm
IR was up a week plus ago.
Oh good.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 14, 2015, 09:22:42 pm
I just put my first probe in orbit around the Mun. And then almost put a probe in orbit around Minmus, but I derped and left SAS on as I time warped to the point where I was going to do a retrograde burn at periapsis and put it in a nice tight orbit, on the dark side of Minmus. Ran out of battery. >_<

So it sailed on by and back out into a very large orbit. I'll have to wait a month or two for the lone solar panel to be pointed in the right direction enough to start recharging the battery. Good thing is that the orbit is in roughly the same plane as Minmus and only slightly smaller. And being a tiny probe, it still has a shit-ton of delta-V left. Once I have juice to communicate again, I can rendezvous it again.

Now to start figuring out the nightmarish logistics of actually landing a kerbonaut on the Mun and getting him home again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 14, 2015, 09:25:46 pm
More solar panels on more sides. Also batteries.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 05:23:15 am
Also probes take charge over time no matter what. Leaving SAS on while warping doesn't drain the battery, its simply having a probe core that does it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 05:27:46 am
I just started a new game with the KAS 0.90 thingie yesterday, is it safe to use this new version?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 05:32:02 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 05:27:46 am
I just started a new game with the KAS 0.90 thingie yesterday, is it safe to use this new version?
Yes, but a lot of parts are depreciated. If you didn't use any of the KAS parts yet you're fine. If you did, you will need to download the old parts so your vessels can still load, then go strip those parts off and discard them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 05:41:15 am
I didnt use any of the new parts.
So I deleted the old KAS folder and put in the new one, but now literally all of my parts are gone.
What the fuck?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 05:43:26 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 05:41:15 am
I didnt use any of the new parts.
So I deleted the old KAS folder and put in the new one, but now literally all of my parts are gone.
What the fuck?
O.o

Uh... I don't know? Nothing you do to the KAS folder should mess up the other parts...

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 06:20:31 am
Oooh, my version of KIS was too old.
He could've mentioned having to update it on the OP...

E:
God damnit, but now I've accepted a contract taht requires me to perform visual surveys higher than my current plane can go >.>
any advice to make it capable of going higher? (currently it seems to stall at about 12000 m)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 15, 2015, 07:09:21 am
More wings, more thrust, more intakes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 15, 2015, 07:19:27 am
Very wide wings are the defining feature of high altitude planes, for me. You want wingspans so huge that they are outright impractical to take off or land.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 15, 2015, 09:29:28 am
I'm liking the new aerodynamics.  Granted, I never played any of the big aero mods, but compared to old-stock the new stuff is pretty great.

I was having a hard time putting together a good heavy lift vehicle with stock parts, but then I started really working on the airflow and everything came together.

I used the angled tail sections to mount boosters flush against the center of a stage, and got rid of all of my conical nosecones so that air would not be directed back against the hull.  Made my payload at the top taller instead of wider, and now I can really cut through the dense lower atmosphere and put heavier payloads in orbit.

Great stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 15, 2015, 09:35:15 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 15, 2015, 07:09:21 am
More wings, more thrust, more intakes.


also basic jet runs out of oomp at 13000mt, but you should be able to get near the survey zone at 1000mt, climb vertical, wait till speed start dropping and ENGAGE BOOSTERS

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 09:49:32 am
Yeah I don't know how useful my advice will be but my spaceplane uses discarded rocket-assist boosters to reach altitude. These boosters drop off once expended and are recovered (stage recovery mod) and once I land the plane I reattach the boosters (kerbal construction time) so it really only costs the fuel unless one of the boosters is broken on recovery (30% chance or so iirc)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 15, 2015, 10:07:14 am
It's also possible to make a plane that can reach high altitudes (even in 1.0.2) by minimizing drag, by just removing most of the drag-inducing parts.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On a test flight, it punched through the atmosphere and made it up to 75km, and then when it came back down, I landed it vertically not far from KSC, using the airbrakes to slow its descent (I was more confident of being able to do that than of being able to actually land on the runway, since I have never succeeded in a runway landing in KSP).

On the other hand, flying horizontally from the runway at full thrust, it catches fire and then things start exploding while KSC is still visible. :P

The problem is, most of the parts in it are all fairly high tech, and on top of that, it can't make orbit, so it's really only good for joyrides and possibly atmo missions that you don't actually care about by the time you can make it. (I haven't succeeded in making a real SSTO yet, either)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 15, 2015, 10:15:32 am
I think the problem was low tech level, not actual design :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 15, 2015, 10:19:02 am
Runway landings are MUCH more possible now.  I can reliably do it even with the low tech fixed wheels (their impact tolerance isnt so great compared to the real landing gear).

I only break off like.. half a wing, on average.  Often I get down totally clean!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 10:19:58 am
Quote from: puke on May 15, 2015, 10:19:02 am
Runway landings are MUCH more possible now.  I can reliably do it even with the low tech fixed wheels (their impact tolerance isnt so great compared to the real landing gear).

I only break off like.. half a wing, on average.  Often I get down totally clean!
For low tech landings you can also use the girder segments as sleds. They hold up surprisingly well. Of course you don't get brakes then.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 11:17:54 am
Man, I got up to 16500 with SRBs :x
I did forget to remove the oxidizer from my tanks though, so maybe... I'll also slightly limit the thrust on these SRBs, so I can tilt my plane harder and go vertical before they are half empty.


Also, I seem to be able to pull of half-decent landings on Kerbin's Grasslands while only breaking off a tail connector or so.
Seems much less hazardous than the runway, since the grasslands usually dont have a small but lethal drop to either side.

E:
Got up to literally 17450 m
FML

E2:
Limited the thrust on my SRBs some more, and i fucking did it. That took way too much effort.

For the rest of the mission, does anybody know if I can give my crew EVA parachutes without having to make them go on EVA? It's not really convenient :P

E3:
BTW, the bigass uncontrollable fall is pretty terrifying. I was pretty happy when my jet engines came back online and let me regain control.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 15, 2015, 11:26:53 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 10:19:58 am
Quote from: puke on May 15, 2015, 10:19:02 am
Runway landings are MUCH more possible now.  I can reliably do it even with the low tech fixed wheels (their impact tolerance isnt so great compared to the real landing gear).

I only break off like.. half a wing, on average.  Often I get down totally clean!
For low tech landings you can also use the girder segments as sleds. They hold up surprisingly well. Of course you don't get brakes then.

Unless it's an airbrake. Or rockets pointed the wrong way. Or parachutes.


I found it works to attach LFO rockets as well as an air-breather. If you don't have the SPH upgraded to use custom action groups, but can use basic ones(or even if you do), you can set the rockets to toggle with the RCS. That won't work if you actually have RCS thrusters attached as well.

Spoiler: Here's a SSTO for you. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 11:53:24 am
I just hit F12 to take a screenshot and the game crashed.
I had quicksaved moments before.

time to sacrifice a lamb and/or child to some assorted gods.

E:
Im currently trying to get Bill up a ladder back to his cockpit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 15, 2015, 12:00:28 pm
F12 is now aereodynamic display as well
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 02:00:35 pm
This is why Steam is rude! I am rather certain that there is, infact, no way to turn off Steam's inbuilt screenshot system.

If there is, someone tell me now so I can turn it off. It is rather aggravating when playing  some games. Thank you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 02:01:13 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 02:00:35 pm
This is why Steam is rude! I am rather certain that there is, infact, no way to turn off Steam's inbuilt screenshot system.

If there is, someone tell me now so I can turn it off. It is rather aggravating when playing  some games. Thank you.
Can't you just turn off the steam overlay?

If not, nothing is stopping you from running KSP from the folder instead of through steam. There is NO DRM
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 02:05:36 pm
I dont use steam for KSP. Never have, never will. I am just saying that it is a PITA when it comes to games that you do have to run through steam, and for those who use steam whenever possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 02:06:27 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 02:05:36 pm
I dont use steam for KSP. Never have, never will. I am just saying that it is a PITA when it comes to games that you do have to run through steam, and for those who use steam whenever possible.
Ah. Well I'm fairly sure you can turn off the steam overlay for most games.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 15, 2015, 02:19:08 pm
you can generally turn off the steam overlay, you can also rebind the screenshot key to whatever you like (including nothing I believe).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 02:27:41 pm
Very soon I'm gonna get this, now that I have a laptop back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 15, 2015, 03:37:35 pm
Quote from: timferius on May 15, 2015, 02:19:08 pm
you can generally turn off the steam overlay, you can also rebind the screenshot key to whatever you like (including nothing I believe).
Yeah, you can just rebind the screenshots.
Wish you could set the popup position / screenshot key per game, though. Lower left is sort of obnoxious in KSP, especially in the VAB.

E: Anyway, I seem to be running out of places to science. I'm probably mistaken, but I don't feel like I have enough science to do science around the Mun properly. I might have to explore some more Kerbin biomes, which I think I've neglected. Is there still enough science in the Kerbin system for everything?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 15, 2015, 03:49:51 pm
Lower left? Since when does it appear in the lower left?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 15, 2015, 04:21:04 pm
Oh my fucking balls. Scott Manley continues to show me things I would never have known about vanilla.

Watched a few episodes of his career for beginners and learned something so incredibly vital for plane missions that I wish I had known sooner.

Specifically, you can click the icon thing to put a spot on the navball that points to the survey zone. Surface missions no longer impossible.

GUIDE DANG IT AGAIN KSP!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2015, 04:23:27 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 15, 2015, 04:21:04 pm
Oh my fucking balls. Scott Manley continues to show me things I would never have known about vanilla.

Watched a few episodes of his career for beginners and learned something so incredibly vital for plane missions that I wish I had known sooner.

Specifically, you can click the icon thing to put a spot on the navball that points to the survey zone. Surface missions no longer impossible.

GUIDE DANG IT AGAIN KSP!
There's a mod which makes the waypoints show up in flight as well. Very handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 04:24:30 pm
...Has anyone got a simple guide on how to make like, a car? Something that would work for land exploration on Kerbin. Mostly for easy science early.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 15, 2015, 04:25:27 pm
you know rockets?

make one with the fire thingies turned sideways.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 04:29:01 pm
That sounds...
Unsafe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 04:31:48 pm
Launching rockets into space isint safe either...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 04:32:34 pm
Yes but the engine is designed for that :x
One would assume it requires some space-plane bits.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 15, 2015, 04:33:38 pm
Landing gear, sure.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on May 15, 2015, 04:41:42 pm
Heck, you can go even further and make a flying car by giving it some wings or something, and throttling up whenever you need to jump over something :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 04:51:58 pm
you know maybe i should try this after i work out how to get into a fokken orbit

I don't think I've even landed on the Mun, yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 15, 2015, 04:53:06 pm
The rover wheels are "designed" for land exploration, but they are SOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOW. Alternately you can use landing gear and rockets/jets for TEH FASTNESS but this is dangerous.

Basically land exploration is like ion burns but a thousand times worse.

Quote from: KingofstarrySkies on May 15, 2015, 04:51:58 pm
I don't think I've even landed on the Mun, yet.
Note: Forget landing gear, use girders in leggish configuration, Landing Gear is Trampoline on the Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 16, 2015, 03:28:06 am
For land exploration you really just want to build a basic plane and fly it everywhere, I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 16, 2015, 04:19:26 am
Basic vtol, so you can land and take ground sci and reset experiments.

Actually, rough terrain landings are much easier now, As long as you dont have huge fragile wings.  Or you could even land on chutes and repack them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on May 16, 2015, 04:24:50 am
Or you could try and make a science bomber. Dropping experiments and crew on locations by using chutes before flying back to base. You then take command of the crew on site, collect what you need and reclaim the vessel :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 16, 2015, 04:51:57 am
I have not looked at the map in a while, but most biomes can be hit with a pretty short flight from KSC.

I think the exceptions are desert and artic, which are easier to hit with a rocket while you're flying some other missions.

And then tundra and badlands which I almost always have to fly to (managed to hit tundra with a rocket only once) but the flight is so long I usually don't worry about them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 16, 2015, 06:20:56 am
I landed an orbital tour rocket in the desert and took readings with the onboard science equipment before recovering it.

Never bothered aiming for the poles, though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on May 16, 2015, 07:00:20 am
The trick with jet powered cars that greatly increases usability is spoilers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 16, 2015, 07:09:13 am
Quote from: Japa on May 16, 2015, 07:00:20 am
The trick with jet powered cars that greatly increases usability is spoilers.

Totally.  I usually science-scumm a low tech jet car around KSC as soon as I have a basic jet engine and a materials bay.  slapping some angled fins on the sides to create some down-draft (or whatever the car enthusiasts call the downward aerodynamic force generated from spoilers and sloped bodywork) transforms them from bouncing/flipping deathtraps into totally driveable cheat-mobiles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 16, 2015, 07:42:12 am
At same tech level you can have a plane with chutes that can grind all center plus roofs that have their own biome and also the nearby water hills and mountains as far as the southwest desert
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 16, 2015, 07:57:43 am
Hey anyone else using the Interstellar Expanded stuff for this version? Specifically anyone discovered whether the "active cooling" from Liquid Nitrogen they added can be used to replace heatshields? Would provide an interesting and reusable way to enter atmospheres.

Relatedly, do radiators actually tie into the vanilla heating mechanics yet or is that coming SoonTM?

Secondary question: Do the Magnet engines generate thrust in atmosphere? The tooltip notes "not rated for atmosphere" so does that mean it only works in space?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on May 16, 2015, 03:46:57 pm
Spoiler: Mission Impossible (click to show/hide)
For reference, Moho is on average twice as far from the sun as these altitudes, and the orbital velocity at that altitude is about 20km/s, so you have about 0.2 seconds to do the test if you use an eyeballed transfer orbit from Kerbin, so you need to get your eccentricity incredibly low to even have a good chance to do that test. That'll cost incredible amounts of delta-v though, and it seems like it would be way too hot out there anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 16, 2015, 04:15:18 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on May 16, 2015, 03:46:57 pm
Spoiler: Mission Impossible (click to show/hide)
For reference, Moho is on average twice as far from the sun as these altitudes, and the orbital velocity at that altitude is about 20km/s, so you have about 0.2 seconds to do the test if you use an eyeballed transfer orbit from Kerbin, so you need to get your eccentricity incredibly low to even have a good chance to do that test. That'll cost incredible amounts of delta-v though, and it seems like it would be way too hot out there anyway.
The ship you would need to perform this test would cost about thirty times the reward for doing it.

So obviously you need to try it :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 16, 2015, 07:22:24 pm
Dat 13 reputation demands it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 16, 2015, 07:55:27 pm
I have yet to figure out if reputation actually does anything...

Meanwhile, the Administrator decided to sell five people on a package vacation deal including sightseeing tours of Minmus.  I haven't sent a man to orbit the Mun yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 16, 2015, 07:56:54 pm
It affects missions, and I think various costs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 16, 2015, 08:24:10 pm
Reputation is great for converting into science and funds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 16, 2015, 09:06:41 pm
So I love the missions where I'm just supposed to build a plane to get somewhere since I love flying more than space (my 3 different flight sticks around my computer prove it) but I feel there is a definite lack of atmospheric contracts, and I guess that makes sense, since this is supposed to be a space agency.

Does anybody know if there's a mod that adds more kerbin survey missions, or even some tourism missions that involve flying vips to locations instead of just getting them to space?  Or failing that does anybody know how I would go about modifying the game to try and make some myself?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 16, 2015, 09:14:11 pm
If you just want more of those, you can reject proposed missions and they'll be replaced by another mission, and eventually a survey mission should come up. You should still be able to get them, they're just rarer because you have more mission variety after getting to space and so on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 17, 2015, 02:59:03 am
Greiger: here is the mod you are looking for

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109471-1-0-2-Contract-Pack-Anomaly-Surveyor-v1-1-2-2015-05-09

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 17, 2015, 04:53:42 am
Quote from: dennislp3 on May 13, 2015, 10:11:41 am
This is a very good tutorial on it...for an older version so some of the aerodynamics stuff it references has changed but its all still accurate when t comes to plane designs

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is pretty outdated now, especially the later sections. You don't add more cruddy wheels, you use the big monster ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 17, 2015, 05:21:35 am
Well, first Mun landing in this version, second Mun landing total :P
Somehow, this one is much easier than the previous one.
I decided to send Bob and a probe body instead of Jeb, to get as much science as possible :x

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, you may note that my lander does not appear to have a probe core.
You'd be wrong, because I mounted it INSIDE the service bay, alongside a whole bunch of other equipment!
It took me far too long to figure out how to actually use service bays (the doors become transparent so i thought you didnt have to open them in the VAB to put stuff in them, but you do), but they're pretty great, especially since I run out of surface area very easily on these lander cans.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

E:
I underestimated how high Kerbals can jump on the Mun and now I'm down one solar panel. Oh well, I brought enough batteries.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

E2:
I didnt pack enough batteries and ejected my engines/solar panels/fuel too early so I ran out of power :V
I aerobreaked through the atmosphere of Kerbin for like six days, which lowered my velocity enough not to burn up despite going sideways!
\o/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 17, 2015, 08:17:49 am
Recently stranded Bob on the Mun (With TAC life support and no surviving solar panels :o) when I severely overestimated how fast my engine could slow me down.

Remember kids, it doesn't matter that you overengineered your ship if you deorbit too aggressively  :-[
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on May 17, 2015, 08:37:47 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 17, 2015, 02:59:03 am
Greiger: here is the mod you are looking for

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109471-1-0-2-Contract-Pack-Anomaly-Surveyor-v1-1-2-2015-05-09
Thanks that will certainly be an improvement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 17, 2015, 08:48:46 am
Quote from: Greiger on May 17, 2015, 08:37:47 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 17, 2015, 02:59:03 am
Greiger: here is the mod you are looking for

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109471-1-0-2-Contract-Pack-Anomaly-Surveyor-v1-1-2-2015-05-09
Thanks that will certainly be an improvement.

That one doesn't always work right. I've had trouble getting Mun arches recognized. I stood next to either leg, directly under, and right on top of an arch and the contract did not complete.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 17, 2015, 09:18:19 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on May 16, 2015, 03:46:57 pm
Spoiler: Mission Impossible (click to show/hide)
For reference, Moho is on average twice as far from the sun as these altitudes, and the orbital velocity at that altitude is about 20km/s, so you have about 0.2 seconds to do the test if you use an eyeballed transfer orbit from Kerbin, so you need to get your eccentricity incredibly low to even have a good chance to do that test. That'll cost incredible amounts of delta-v though, and it seems like it would be way too hot out there anyway.
Would it be so hard?

Assuming you make a highly elliptical orbit, your speed at the apoapsis would be extremely small.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 17, 2015, 11:05:08 am
Spoiler: I'm getting attached to those slanted C7 tanks (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 17, 2015, 12:18:08 pm
The single booster stage on my first Mun/Minmus rocket can bring me literally to 20km :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 17, 2015, 04:28:28 pm
Spoiler: My Latest Project (click to show/hide)

It's a plane that carries a spaceplane. The main part was easy to build but the smaller plane took some tweaking to get it working.

Edit: How do I get an album embedded?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Chiefwaffles on May 17, 2015, 07:35:33 pm
Don't think the forums support album embedding. You'll have to give a link to the album if you want others to see it.

Also, is there any way to avoid the overheat indicator memory leak? I've got a ship I really want to land, but I can't avoid partial overheating of parts during re-entry, and therefore the game crashes whenever I try landing it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 17, 2015, 07:43:28 pm
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on May 17, 2015, 07:35:33 pm
Don't think the forums support album embedding. You'll have to give a link to the album if you want others to see it.

Also, is there any way to avoid the overheat indicator memory leak? I've got a ship I really want to land, but I can't avoid partial overheating of parts during re-entry, and therefore the game crashes whenever I try landing it.
f10 turns the overlay off
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 17, 2015, 08:22:47 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 17, 2015, 07:43:28 pm
Quote from: Chiefwaffles on May 17, 2015, 07:35:33 pm
Don't think the forums support album embedding. You'll have to give a link to the album if you want others to see it.

Also, is there any way to avoid the overheat indicator memory leak? I've got a ship I really want to land, but I can't avoid partial overheating of parts during re-entry, and therefore the game crashes whenever I try landing it.
f10 turns the overlay off
There are also some good mods to replace it. I'll dig around and find links for you.

Edit: Here we go.
This (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/120731-1-0-2-Temperature-Gauge-Killer) turns it off at the start of each flight automatically.
And this (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/119686-1-0-2-Critical-temperature-gauge-(DR-supported)) is a very nice alternative to the stock heat overlay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
Okay, need some orbital mechanics help. I have a contract to put a satellite into a specific orbit, and I've almost got it but something is wrong on the angle.

Spoiler: Blue line is current orbit, green line is desired orbit. (click to show/hide)

The ascending/descending nodes line up and the apoapsis/periapsis are the right distances. The inclination is even the right amount (15.5 degrees), but it seems to be in the wrong direction?

But if I have MechJeb calculate a -15.5 inclination orbit, it's way out of line with this. Maybe I don't have the right terminology, and it's something other than inclination that needs to change??
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on May 19, 2015, 03:39:54 pm
So I managed to create a airbreathing jet capable of 1 minute of out of orbit flight, go over 1km/s at 90 degrees, survive rentry, fly with out wings, and finally land for all intents and purpose intact! Just don't activate the emergency RCS in atmos or poor Jeb ain't coming home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2015, 03:51:39 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
Okay, need some orbital mechanics help. I have a contract to put a satellite into a specific orbit, and I've almost got it but something is wrong on the angle.

Spoiler: Blue line is current orbit, green line is desired orbit. (click to show/hide)

The ascending/descending nodes line up and the apoapsis/periapsis are the right distances. The inclination is even the right amount (15.5 degrees), but it seems to be in the wrong direction?

But if I have MechJeb calculate a -15.5 inclination orbit, it's way out of line with this. Maybe I don't have the right terminology, and it's something other than inclination that needs to change??
Well... assuming you're orbiting the right way then this isn't too bad. You will want to burn normal/antinormal at the point where your orbit intersects the target orbit. Use a maneuver node to plot it out.

(Or give me your save and I'll show you what I mean. Its hard to explain)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Karlito on May 19, 2015, 04:49:03 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
But if I have MechJeb calculate a -15.5 inclination orbit, it's way out of line with this. Maybe I don't have the right terminology, and it's something other than inclination that needs to change??

forsaken has the right advice to fix the issue. I believe the orbital characteristic you have to fix is called the argument of the periapsis. If you look down on Kerbin from the north pole, it should be more obvious where the difference is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2015, 03:51:39 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
Okay, need some orbital mechanics help. I have a contract to put a satellite into a specific orbit, and I've almost got it but something is wrong on the angle.

Spoiler: Blue line is current orbit, green line is desired orbit. (click to show/hide)

The ascending/descending nodes line up and the apoapsis/periapsis are the right distances. The inclination is even the right amount (15.5 degrees), but it seems to be in the wrong direction?

But if I have MechJeb calculate a -15.5 inclination orbit, it's way out of line with this. Maybe I don't have the right terminology, and it's something other than inclination that needs to change??
Well... assuming you're orbiting the right way then this isn't too bad. You will want to burn normal/antinormal at the point where your orbit intersects the target orbit. Use a maneuver node to plot it out.

(Or give me your save and I'll show you what I mean. Its hard to explain)
Aha! Worked like a champ (and had just enough delta-V left to do it, too). Had to tweak the periapsis a bit in a secondary burn, but no biggie.

I and the Probodobodyne Corporation thank you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2015, 04:57:33 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2015, 03:51:39 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 03:17:39 pm
Okay, need some orbital mechanics help. I have a contract to put a satellite into a specific orbit, and I've almost got it but something is wrong on the angle.

Spoiler: Blue line is current orbit, green line is desired orbit. (click to show/hide)

The ascending/descending nodes line up and the apoapsis/periapsis are the right distances. The inclination is even the right amount (15.5 degrees), but it seems to be in the wrong direction?

But if I have MechJeb calculate a -15.5 inclination orbit, it's way out of line with this. Maybe I don't have the right terminology, and it's something other than inclination that needs to change??
Well... assuming you're orbiting the right way then this isn't too bad. You will want to burn normal/antinormal at the point where your orbit intersects the target orbit. Use a maneuver node to plot it out.

(Or give me your save and I'll show you what I mean. Its hard to explain)
Aha! Worked like a champ (and had just enough delta-V left to do it, too). Had to tweak the periapsis a bit in a secondary burn, but no biggie.

I and the Probodobodyne Corporation thank you.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 19, 2015, 06:15:33 pm
Yeah, satellites are pretty much all like that. Get to orbit, burn till apoapse matches the closest part of the orbit, circularize there, burn at whichever purple (normal/antinormal?) marker rotates your orbit the right way, repeat till satisfied.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 09:40:42 pm
Woohoo! Managed to land my first Munar probe. Unfortunately, I landed it on the side of a crater, and it tipped over and rolled about 100m. Still, good enough to count and good enough to perform and transmit all the tasty science I had packed onto it. Then I used what fuel I had left to accelerate it across the crater floor until it explosively disassembled.

No point in leaving trash lying around. (If it had landed properly, I would have left it as a monument for future Kerbonauts to admire...)

Now I have proper ladders and can try to replicate the same thing with a manned lander. Which is terrifying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 19, 2015, 09:49:06 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 09:40:42 pm
Woohoo! Managed to land my first Munar probe. Unfortunately, I landed it on the side of a crater, and it tipped over and rolled about 100m. Still, good enough to count and good enough to perform and transmit all the tasty science I had packed onto it. Then I used what fuel I had left to accelerate it across the crater floor until it explosively disassembled.

No point in leaving trash lying around. (If it had landed properly, I would have left it as a monument for future Kerbonauts to admire...)

Now I have proper ladders and can try to replicate the same thing with a manned lander. Which is terrifying.

Don't forget to pick up your trash after that manned lander....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 20, 2015, 10:39:26 am
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 09:40:42 pm
No point in leaving trash lying around.

There IS a point actually. You could use it to spam the "Science from Mun's Surface" missions for cheap cash.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 10:54:38 am
i use machine guns to clean up trash i leave behind in space

i would not recommend doing this in real life
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 20, 2015, 11:01:13 am
Quote from: RedKing on May 19, 2015, 09:40:42 pm
Woohoo! Managed to land my first Munar probe. Unfortunately, I landed it on the side of a crater, and it tipped over and rolled about 100m. Still, good enough to count and good enough to perform and transmit all the tasty science I had packed onto it. Then I used what fuel I had left to accelerate it across the crater floor until it explosively disassembled.

No point in leaving trash lying around. (If it had landed properly, I would have left it as a monument for future Kerbonauts to admire...)

Now I have proper ladders and can try to replicate the same thing with a manned lander. Which is terrifying.
Ladders aren't really essential on the Mun, and nor are the landing legs. The micro landing struts can probably take the weight and your kerbals can jump high enough to get back into the pod (and if they cant, they can jetpack up).

(I always mount my engines on top of my lander, with two of those tiny engines on each side)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 11:04:21 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 10:54:38 am
i use machine guns to clean up trash i leave behind in space

i would not recommend doing this in real life
I use a maintenance vessel which has little clawbots. Each clawbot has a claw grabber and just enough delta-v to deorbit plus ~6 parachutes. I latch one onto a sizeable debris chunk and deorbit/recover.

Minor debris I just detonate in orbit (Love the deployable explosives in KIS)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mipe on May 20, 2015, 11:13:55 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 11:04:21 am
Minor debris I just detonate in orbit (Love the deployable explosives in KIS)

Uh... if this was not KSP, we'd be in deep, deep trouble.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 11:18:05 am
Quote from: Mipe on May 20, 2015, 11:13:55 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 11:04:21 am
Minor debris I just detonate in orbit (Love the deployable explosives in KIS)

Uh... if this was not KSP, we'd be in deep, deep trouble.
Fortunately kessler syndrome is prohibitively difficult to model in a game, so said debris simply vanish. :P

I do recall a mod which added random micrometeorite impacts which showed a nice impact effect and caused small forces to act on your ship, requiring correction burns sometimes.

I'd enjoy a similar mod which had a higher instance of impacts near kerbin depending on how many launches you have made previously, with possibility of damage to parts ala the "Dang It!" mod
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 20, 2015, 11:29:32 am
There is a mod which did exactly that http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/74382-Kessler-chaos-space-debris-clouds-0-23-5-WIP-Plugin

Try posing there maybe a maintainer will step up
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 11:34:17 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 20, 2015, 11:29:32 am
There is a mod which did exactly that http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/74382-Kessler-chaos-space-debris-clouds-0-23-5-WIP-Plugin

Try posing there maybe a maintainer will step up
Nice! I'll take a look at it, thanks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 20, 2015, 12:11:33 pm
I made a thing with the USI Freight Transport Technologies mod:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
860 tons fully fuelled, 280 of that being liquid hydrogen. Enough to haul 600 tons from duna with 1700 dv.
 This was the final booster configuration I used:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After about a week failed launches and redesigns, I've learned that due to the weakness of stock RCS, it's highly unlikely to launch an 800 ton payload without ensuring it's as rigid as possible, even this launch did not go smoothly, you can see 5 14400 tanks with rhinos at the very bottom of the stack, the first booster stage damaged half of these and they were discarded for symmetry, luckily there was barely enough fuel left to reach orbit without that final stage.
 Features include 3 cargo racks with docking ports for carrying colony modules, or senior docking ports for larger payloads.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
3 Kontainers attached with docking ports, 8 enclosed cargo bays, and 12 radial MKS tanks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also 12 radially attached docking ports around the drive section allowing the easy attachment of an additional 860 tons of fuel tanks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
These would allow a staggering 2800 tons of freight to be delivered back to Kerbin from Duna, or a much smaller quantity from Jool, or deliver a decent colony setup to Laythe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 12:25:38 pm
I wonder if it is possible to build a working cycler in KSP...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 12:27:39 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 12:25:38 pm
I wonder if it is possible to build a working cycler in KSP...
http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalAcademy/comments/1x06wa/how_to_make_a_kerbinduna_aldrin_cycler/

(whoops, wrong link. Fixed)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 01:09:58 pm
Ah, so, has anyone actually done it? Or did they try only to have the fuzzy numbers break it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 01:12:09 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 01:09:58 pm
Ah, so, has anyone actually done it? Or did they try only to have the fuzzy numbers break it?
Looked to me like it is possible but nobody demonstrated it ingame. It would take some maintenance too, to adjust the orbit every few cycles
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 20, 2015, 01:35:18 pm
In theory you could use the programming mod and set up a flight pattern for it to adhere too. Just focus it and let it adjust and carry on
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 20, 2015, 01:53:33 pm
So I finally gave mechjeb a try, I both want to praise it and curse it at the same time, while its quite efficient at some things, other things its a bit inefficient, namely the landing from orbit, sure it can land almost strait back onto the launch pad from orbit, but it tends to fly strait over the target then enter the atmosphere at 2500 m/s at -70 degrees....while the spacecraft was mostly fine, seeing radial attached bits get blown off due to heat is always annoying. I did a test of going from orbiting minmus at 10 km, transit to kerbin, then set it to land while on the way to kerbin, it burned through 1k delta V and went on an escape trajectory...so I manually landed it. One thing that did help was the predicted landing, which let me land the rocket within 20 km of the space center.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 20, 2015, 02:12:51 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 01:12:09 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 01:09:58 pm
Ah, so, has anyone actually done it? Or did they try only to have the fuzzy numbers break it?
Looked to me like it is possible but nobody demonstrated it ingame. It would take some maintenance too, to adjust the orbit every few cycles

Lack of N-body gravity makes it easier but rounding errors make it harder. You'd have to babysit it quite a bit and babysitting it alone adds more errors as you activate physics while piloting or approaching.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 20, 2015, 02:21:02 pm
Quote from: etgfrog on May 20, 2015, 01:53:33 pm
So I finally gave mechjeb a try, I both want to praise it and curse it at the same time, while its quite efficient at some things, other things its a bit inefficient, namely the landing from orbit, sure it can land almost strait back onto the launch pad from orbit, but it tends to fly strait over the target then enter the atmosphere at 2500 m/s at -70 degrees....while the spacecraft was mostly fine, seeing radial attached bits get blown off due to heat is always annoying. I did a test of going from orbiting minmus at 10 km, transit to kerbin, then set it to land while on the way to kerbin, it burned through 1k delta V and went on an escape trajectory...so I manually landed it. One thing that did help was the predicted landing, which let me land the rocket within 20 km of the space center.
I love mechjeb for teaching me how to do gravity turns.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:21:58 pm
are you supposed to start gravity turns at 3km?

either that or my mechjeb is borked. :<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 20, 2015, 02:34:32 pm
As of 1.0, you're supposed to start gravity turns at about the instant you take off, or else you get ships that flip.

MechJeb's gravity turn method pre 1.0 was completely awful for anything approaching realistic aerodynamics... like 1.0.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:35:50 pm
well, i get the flip part right.

usually mecjheb was able to just continue on after a loop or two, but it's still kinda annoying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 02:36:24 pm
If your rocket is flipping, you have a design flaw.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:39:01 pm
ill post a pic in a sec
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 02:41:03 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:39:01 pm
ill post a pic in a sec
Include your TWR per stage as well please

or even better, the craft file + a list of any mods you have
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:55:37 pm
I use MechJeb and some (fairly sure the) weapons mod.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ship is carrying a module to my space station. That's the large batteries and the part between, underneath that is a manned part to switch crews, this part is supposed to land back at Kerbol. I added the cones recently hoping it would add some stability to the ship, no idea if they even serve a function is KSP.

I guess I could try to increase the height of the side parts to make it less top heavy?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 20, 2015, 03:01:56 pm
No, you want it top heavy, and maybe add some fins at the bottom. Your rocket should fly like a dart, weight at the front and drag at the back.

And nosecones are now important for reducing drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 03:02:40 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 20, 2015, 03:01:56 pm
maybe add some fins at the bottom.
the moving ones or the sturdy ones?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 20, 2015, 03:06:05 pm
Either. Since you have a cluster of mainsails, you should have enough control from their gimbals so just straight fins are fine, but more control won't hurt. You just want the center of drag behind the center of mass to keep the rocket pointed along its prograde vector.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 03:30:12 pm
Height looks fine. Add some winglets to the boosters and some more to the main body, all at the bottom.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 03:59:15 pm
Wings fixed it.

I have an issue with "stowed" engines though. Three of the four side-engines you can see on the earlier screenshot won't activate and their status is "colluded". Any idea what is causing this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 20, 2015, 04:08:32 pm
That's a really annoying bug with fairings. For some reason you're not allowed to activate engines while they're in fairings (as an aside, that they decided to just take that option away from the player pisses me off more than any of the actual 1.0 bugs) and sometimes it improperly registers engines as being inside fairings. You might try fiddling with the engine placement, but the only surefire solution I can offer is to replace those fairings on the boosters with actual nosecones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 04:18:52 pm
What is a fairing?

edit: oh it's the thingies. I had this earlier before I placed them though. I guess it's because they're so close to the part that holds the ammo boxes... Can't really remove those I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 04:20:21 pm
are the engines attached to your service bays? Try attaching  them elsewhere, they may count as 'inside' the bays if they're attached to it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 04:24:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're not even directly attached to it, I put a box between them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 20, 2015, 04:27:20 pm
The thrust limiter is set to 0, but that shouldn't cause occlusion. a screenshot from behind?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 20, 2015, 04:29:53 pm
Oh, you meant the radial engines.

Yeah, doesn't matter if they are attached directly or not, it can still interpret them as being "stowed". Just move them down to the fuel tank if you can, that should work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 04:30:02 pm
give craft file. 100% easier to debug issues like this
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 04:43:38 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 04:30:02 pm
give craft file. 100% easier to debug issues like this
this? (http://pastebin.com/VFcjLAs8)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 05:19:52 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 04:43:38 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 04:30:02 pm
give craft file. 100% easier to debug issues like this
this? (http://pastebin.com/VFcjLAs8)
Yes, but I also need to know what mods you have. SPecifically which one is adding "baha30mmammo"

Nevermind, it's BD armory. Gonna go look at it now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 05:55:36 pm
Thats BD Armory.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 06:13:49 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 04:24:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're not even directly attached to it, I put a box between them.
Weird. I launched the craft as you had it and the engines worked fine. It got to orbit ok.

I'm using FAR but that shouldn't matter much tbh.

I played with the design a bit. Hope you don't mind. It's a classic design, similar to my own lifters. You can get a bit more delta-v by simplifying it, you don't need all the reaction wheels and such once you have some aerodynamic control. I assume those were you trying to stop it flipping. I used a stack separator too because the decoupler you had on the heatshield would stay attached to the shield on reentry and it caused stability issues. Again, that might be FAR....

Here's the design with my changes if you're interested:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9910241/Battery%20%2B%2030mm%20Ammo%20Core2.craft

It has something like 500 more delta-v with the same payload, if that helps.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 20, 2015, 06:19:53 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 02:55:37 pm
(-snip-)

Jayzus christ, thats a lot of RCS ports... You seem to have the oppisite problem I do, you pile them on while I forget about them...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 06:29:36 pm
They're just so efficient! Even with all of those I hardly use any of my RCS fuel when ascending.

Most of them have been removed to make place for heug wings though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 06:31:30 pm
Huge wings weren't really necessary in my tests. I used a few of the winglets.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 06:38:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 06:13:49 pm
I used a stack separator too because the decoupler you had on the heatshield would stay attached to the shield on reentry and it caused stability issues.
To be honest I just assumed the decoupler would burn off. I didn't with an earlier version of the ship, but it didn't really do any harm either.

I didn't even know separators were a thing, I've played this game since basically the very beginning, but not continuously, so there's tons of stuff og which I just have no idea what it does xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 06:40:10 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 06:38:43 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2015, 06:13:49 pm
I used a stack separator too because the decoupler you had on the heatshield would stay attached to the shield on reentry and it caused stability issues.
To be honest I just assumed the decoupler would burn off. I didn't with an earlier version of the ship, but it didn't really do any harm either.

I didn't even know separators were a thing, I've played this game since basically the very beginning, but not continuously, so there's tons of stuff og which I just have no idea what it does xD
A separator is a decoupler which releases both sides of the stack rather than just one. They're the white/blue rings in structural
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 20, 2015, 07:13:03 pm
Ah, was initially going to make that myself with two decouplers, but decided to reduce space clutter and not do it.

Anyway, the stowing bug magically fixed itself after loading the space station a few times. So I guess I'll just test the every engine I have before taking off from now on and if they have the bug I reload.

Makes the game a little more realistic actually, in a way xD
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 21, 2015, 12:36:18 am
As I recall FAR completely changes the drag model, particularly so that drag is calculated based on the shape of the ship, not based on parts being behind other parts. This may affect occlusion.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 21, 2015, 01:59:27 am
My ships keep being attacked by launch clamps at 6km altitude. This means war! (Somehow bahamut's weapons could help me!)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 21, 2015, 11:15:51 am
I finally got around to playing with nuclear engines. Meh. Not as good as I thought. Using the same overall design from before, only changing the Rockomax Poodle engines out for the nukes, a trip to and back from the Mun ends with pretty much the same fuel situation: I'm out and I'm using reaction thrusters to push my periapsis that last few meters into the atmosphere to let drag take care of the rest. I suppose the main advantage to the LV-N is that it only uses Liquid Fuel and no Oxidizer, making it good for spaceplanes, or easier refueling stations.

Also, why the hell is it easier to make a round trip to Minmus than Mun? The Poodle-based craft from before makes it to and from Minmus with a good amount of fuel left, but not Mun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 21, 2015, 11:55:34 am
Quote from: Akura on May 21, 2015, 11:15:51 am
I finally got around to playing with nuclear engines. Meh. Not as good as I thought. Using the same overall design from before, only changing the Rockomax Poodle engines out for the nukes, a trip to and back from the Mun ends with pretty much the same fuel situation: I'm out and I'm using reaction thrusters to push my periapsis that last few meters into the atmosphere to let drag take care of the rest. I suppose the main advantage to the LV-N is that it only uses Liquid Fuel and no Oxidizer, making it good for spaceplanes, or easier refueling stations.

Also, why the hell is it easier to make a round trip to Minmus than Mun? The Poodle-based craft from before makes it to and from Minmus with a good amount of fuel left, but not Mun.
Are you landing on Minmus or just doing a flyby?  If you are landing then it is because it takes a lot less fuel to safely land and then take off, and this outweighs the extra fuel needed to get there.  Now, depending on how you set up your flybys, it could be that you are doing everything very inefficiently for the Mun while doing it efficiently for Minmus. I don't know how to really explain it very well, but you need to remember to look at your orbit after your flyby, along with how you exit from the planet and which way the planet is rotating.  Lets say you are just doing a flyby of the Mun, without establishing an orbit.  Most of the time, you will get a rougly circular orbit of Kerbin afterwards.  This is very, very bad, as you will waste most of your fuel trying to lower your periapses.  Instead, play around with the manuever node until you have a highly elliptical orbit with a periapses hitting Kerbin, or only a few hundred kilometers away.  While you will be hitting the atmosphere at a higher speed, you can use whatever fuel you have saved to slow down, and then absorb the rest on your heat shields.  If you land, look at what direction whatever moon you are on is orbiting compared to Kerbin.  Generally, to use less fuel, you want to have your escape vector in the opposite direction, since this will lower your speed.  Again, play around with the maneuver nodes to found out which gets your periapsis the closest.  If possible, always try to take off in the direction the planet is rotating.  This gives you an extra boost from the planet or moon, and is the main reason you head east from the space center every time. 
Not sure how good of a player you are, so sorry if you already know most of this, but those are the main reasons I can think of for why you might have discrepancies getting from one place to another.  Now, onto the nuclear engines.  Mainly, you want to be using them for transfers.  When landing, they are inconvenient because of both their size and their low thrust. It has approximately the same thrusts as that other 1.5m LV engine, can't remember the name at the moment, but has more weight.  If you just switched it out for a poodle, make sure you don't have any oxidizer in the fuel tank, and if possibly try to use the airplane parts.  A well designed stage with the LV-N can get you from one planet to another with ease, but if your craft is to big it will take forever.  Generally, LV-Ns kind of act like ion engines, where you have very effecient ISP but low thrust to weight ratio.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 21, 2015, 12:13:04 pm
Nuclear engines are really best suited for moving heavy loads across interplanetary distances. If you just want a light Mun lander, the extra mass of the engine will counteract the high Isp and result in mediocre performance compared to the much lighter LV-909s and Poodles. Also, because it only uses liquid fuel, if you slap it on a ship built for a chemical rocket and just remove the oxidizer, it will only have about half the reaction mass (the mass of fuel that can be converted to thrust) to work with. You need to add fuel tanks if you're going to compare them like that.

Minmus is easier to land on and come back because it has lower gravity and a slow orbital velocity. The pull of Kerbin's gravity is inversely proportional to the square of your distance from its core, forming what is known as a "gravity well" which is steeper the closer you are to the planet. This means that it takes a lot of energy to escape the deepest part of the well, but only slightly more to go beyond it. so while Minmus looks a lot further than the Mun, it actually only requires a bit more delta-v to get out to it. Then, since Minmus' orbital velocity is relatively slow (also a result of the gravity well) it takes much less delta-v to match its velocity and get into orbit, this also means it takes less delta-v to return to Kerbin afterwards. And of course, since Minmus' own gravity is fairly low, it takes less energy to de-orbit, land and orbit again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2015, 12:22:05 pm
I use nuclear engines on my interplanetary stages, and on my kerbin<->mun transfer vehicle.

Said transfer vehicle stays in orbit and moves whatever payload I need moved, but it never lands itself. The payload to be attached usually comes with additional fuel for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 02:49:34 pm
Mun continues to be my archnemesis. Regardless of design there seems to be a 50/50 chance the ship just lands helplessly on its side.
On top of this it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to bring enough fuel to land and take off again into a stable orbit, let alone one that makes it back to Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 21, 2015, 02:58:37 pm
Quote from: Akura on May 21, 2015, 11:15:51 am
I finally got around to playing with nuclear engines. Meh. Not as good as I thought. Using the same overall design from before, only changing the Rockomax Poodle engines out for the nukes, a trip to and back from the Mun ends with pretty much the same fuel situation: I'm out and I'm using reaction thrusters to push my periapsis that last few meters into the atmosphere to let drag take care of the rest. I suppose the main advantage to the LV-N is that it only uses Liquid Fuel and no Oxidizer, making it good for spaceplanes, or easier refueling stations.

Also, why the hell is it easier to make a round trip to Minmus than Mun? The Poodle-based craft from before makes it to and from Minmus with a good amount of fuel left, but not Mun.

Nuke viability depends on your craft weight. Lack of oxidizer lowers overall weight. You can squeeze an extra thousand dV in light craft.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 21, 2015, 03:54:25 pm
Yay! Successfully landed my first probe on Minmus. Still not sure I'm ready for a manned landing anywhere though. I've got an orbital probe that will make a transfer burn to Duna in 100 days or so, but given how long it'll take to get there, I don't want to wait for that juicy science to unlock more parts.

Two major questions:


1. How do you design Apollo-type vessels? That is, a craft with a command pod and a separate lander section that will detach, land on the target, let Jeb stretch his legs and plant a flag, and then get him back into orbit to rendezvous with the command pod and head home to Kerbin?? Do I need docking ports? Do I need a really big-ass aeroshell?

2. Orbital stations....what do?  :-\
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on May 21, 2015, 04:15:45 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 21, 2015, 03:54:25 pm
1. How do you design Apollo-type vessels? That is, a craft with a command pod and a separate lander section that will detach, land on the target, let Jeb stretch his legs and plant a flag, and then get him back into orbit to rendezvous with the command pod and head home to Kerbin?? Do I need docking ports? Do I need a really big-ass aeroshell?

Aeroshells are really new to the game, so I don't have any experience with them, but that would be the idea.  The real Apollo had the lander inside the aeroshell under the capsule/service module, which then separated and turned around in orbit to dock the top of the capsule to the top of the lander.  KSP's design system really doesn't like this because the lander would have to start out attached to the bottom of the service module.  Your best bet would be to build it with the lander already attached (upside down) to the capsule, or put a stack separator between the lander and service module engine... all inside an aeroshell on top of the lifter stage.  That's a lot of crap to pack inside the stock aeroshell.

Quote from: RedKing on May 21, 2015, 03:54:25 pm
2. Orbital stations....what do?  :-\

Start by building a "core" with at least power, RCS and an ASAS controller (or leave a qualified pilot aboard, point is you need to be able to leave it unattended without rotation), with enough well-spaced docking ports to support future expansion.  Make absolutely sure it's in a circular orbit (zero inclination is nice but much easier to handle than circular deviation), and the lower the orbit the better as long as it's higher than 75km (higher is nicer but more fuel expensive to expand).  Then just drive the rest of your modules to it and endure the painstaking space-limbo process of docking parts to an increasingly wobbly station.

Building it space shuttle style with internally carried components is extremely hard just because the stock cargo modules in KSP are tiny, and the parts need to be self propelled (RCS is a must) to finish the docking process.  The natural alternative is to build it Mir style where you attach "station" components that are really fully-qualified space vessels, and then ditch or empty out the superfluous engines as much as your design allows.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 21, 2015, 05:13:12 pm
Successfully rendezvoused with an asteroid.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Had to kinda lucksack my way into this, since MechJeb didn't seem to understand how to rendezvous with something on an escape trajectory from Kerbol. If I hadn't hit it I would have been 50 dV short of matching velocities.

I'm not sure why I expected it to have a SoI, but it obviously didn't. Not sure how to properly land on it. Without exploding, that is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 21, 2015, 05:16:12 pm
It doesn't have enough gravity for an SOI. It's also not really on rails, certainly not when you're near it. It's a generated object treated just like the ship you built.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 21, 2015, 05:17:40 pm
So what, eh, are you supposed to do with 'em?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 21, 2015, 05:19:23 pm
Grab them with a claw. Treat it like docking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 21, 2015, 05:20:21 pm
So KSP has claws now.

Neat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 21, 2015, 05:26:19 pm
Introduced in 0.23.5, 1 year ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 21, 2015, 05:28:05 pm
They had it for, what, three months?

.26, I think

/me looks it up

v0.23.5 is when it was, there was no 0.26 , and I have no idea where I got that number from...

-ninja edit-

year and a month.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 21, 2015, 05:31:10 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 21, 2015, 05:17:40 pm
So what, eh, are you supposed to do with 'em?
What the hell do you think you are supposed to do with them?  Target practice.  Unfortunately we do not have destructible cities on Kerbin yet, so that kind of defeats the point.
Being more serious, I think you should be able to mine them.  If you can put one in LKO, then you should have a self sustainable refueling station.  You should also be able to do science on them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on May 21, 2015, 05:40:41 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 21, 2015, 05:17:40 pm
So what, eh, are you supposed to do with 'em?
Stick wings and engines on them. Go flying.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 21, 2015, 05:50:29 pm
Extinctify some dinosaurs?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 21, 2015, 05:53:10 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 21, 2015, 05:50:29 pm
Extinctify some dinosaurs?
Spoiler: Like this? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 21, 2015, 06:25:22 pm
Just so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 08:17:42 pm
So who here uses the USI Colonization thing?

After looking at it, it looks awesome, but I'm not really sure it fits what I'm looking for right now.

ATM I'm looking for something to provide a way to recycle food from TAC life support, I would just use Biomass like I usually do but its not updated as more then a "test" version, and I'm somewhat attached to my save at this point.

USI CAN provide food recycling, but to do so requires about three rockets worth of empty mass, and for what I want it for I would have to drop that all on DUNA.
And all just to give some purpose to a stupid contract beyond "MUNNEH, BIT OF SCIENCE"

Basically it looks really cool, but the more I read about it my mental image of my rockets looks exponentially more ridiculous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 21, 2015, 08:47:55 pm
There are a slew of mods that plug into various lifesupport mods that let you grow food.

Also, if you dont want to use the MKS parts, what about the OKS ones?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 21, 2015, 08:53:49 pm
I thought TAC life support provided a way to recycle stuff from TAC life support.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 09:00:02 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 21, 2015, 08:53:49 pm
I thought TAC life support provided a way to recycle stuff from TAC life support.
Just water and oxygen, still have to launch all food from Kerbin, which does not help one make a base that doesn't starve because you haven't mastered planetary transfers yet.

Quote from: Aseaheru on May 21, 2015, 08:47:55 pm
Also, if you dont want to use the MKS parts, what about the OKS ones?
LANDING on Duna, so Orbital stuff doesn't help the Kerbals who will probably be stuck there for the foreseeable future to not starve.

BFEL has to make a base on wheels on Duna, and not really good enough to reliably get them back OFF that base, so self sufficiency is kinda important.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 21, 2015, 09:14:36 pm
I was about to say that you could keep them in orbit, and the kerbals in a lander, and head back up, then read about the rolling base...

Whatabout the HOME parts? Most of those collapse, which should help.
Nevermind, those dont have functionality with life support that I can see.


Meanwhile, while looking for mods that do have that job, I discovered that there is a contract mod for BD armory, so you can go and make your craft-o-doom and go kill things with it, without having to make those extra vehicles.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 10:08:10 pm
Dammit, of course the thing I need most right now is funds, and KCT decides to take my money and not give me my building upgrade. FUCK. 300000 funds gone. FUCKING BUGS GODDAMMIT.

Looked for the file to edit funds but couldn't find it. UGH.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 21, 2015, 10:36:14 pm
It's "persistent.sfs" in the save folder. Alternatively, you can hold alt-f12 down for a few seconds to access the extra-secret cheats that let you add or remove money, science and rep.

I feel like a challenge, so, starting tomorrow I'm going to try to design and fly an SSTO that can go to Laythe and back without refueling. Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2015, 01:34:09 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 10:08:10 pm
Dammit, of course the thing I need most right now is funds, and KCT decides to take my money and not give me my building upgrade. FUCK. 300000 funds gone. FUCKING BUGS GODDAMMIT.

Looked for the file to edit funds but couldn't find it. UGH.


most polished game ever!  ahem. anyway, in a completely unrelated note:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122297-1-0-2-May20-WasdEditorCamera-FPS-editor-controls

best mod forever
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 22, 2015, 02:33:29 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2015, 01:34:09 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122297-1-0-2-May20-WasdEditorCamera-FPS-editor-controls

best mod forever
Found it not too long ago myself. Looks great but haven't gotten to try it yet. Should solve roughly all my problems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2015, 05:36:23 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 10:08:10 pm
Dammit, of course the thing I need most right now is funds, and KCT decides to take my money and not give me my building upgrade. FUCK. 300000 funds gone. FUCKING BUGS GODDAMMIT.

Looked for the file to edit funds but couldn't find it. UGH.
KCT causes building upgrades to take time. Are you sure it's not just in progress?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 06:29:48 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2015, 05:36:23 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 10:08:10 pm
Dammit, of course the thing I need most right now is funds, and KCT decides to take my money and not give me my building upgrade. FUCK. 300000 funds gone. FUCKING BUGS GODDAMMIT.

Looked for the file to edit funds but couldn't find it. UGH.
KCT causes building upgrades to take time. Are you sure it's not just in progress?
Yeah, I'm sure. Looks like its a really bad idea to be off flying something when the timer runs down and the actual upgrade is supposed to happen.

Quote from: nogoodnames on May 21, 2015, 10:36:14 pm
It's "persistent.sfs" in the save folder. Alternatively, you can hold alt-f12 down for a few seconds to access the extra-secret cheats that let you add or remove money, science and rep.

I feel like a challenge, so, starting tomorrow I'm going to try to design and fly an SSTO that can go to Laythe and back without refueling. Wish me luck!
That's the file I was looking through, its just so fuckhueg that I couldn't FIND the money in it. But thank you for the secret cheaties, that should help fix it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 22, 2015, 08:46:55 am
Wow, really experiencing some moronic completionist ocd trauma over these World First contracts.

I was combining the "fly by mun" and "fly by minmus" contracts with the relevant "explore..." contracts, so during the same flight I was also orbiting and landing on those bodies.

It just occurred to me that there are probably World First contracts for orbiting and landing on those bodies that I was missing, though I wouldnt be sure until it gave me a Duna contract.

So, I did a few more... Dock two ships in orbit, then flyby of the sun (luckily, just before a test ship left Kerbin SOI and I lost the opportunity to get that contract) and then I get this one:  "Return to Kerbin from a Flyby of Minmus"

Aaah!  There would have been one of those for the Mun also, but I already met the criteria!  All these missed contracts!

I feel like I should restart my career now to complete the ones I probably missed, but thats idiotic isnt it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 22, 2015, 08:59:06 am
I think I read something about them automatically giving you the money and rep for those sorts of things when/if you complete them, the special missions are (I think, I could be wrong) just them giving you a hint.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 22, 2015, 10:01:45 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 02:49:34 pm
Mun continues to be my archnemesis. Regardless of design there seems to be a 50/50 chance the ship just lands helplessly on its side.
On top of this it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to bring enough fuel to land and take off again into a stable orbit, let alone one that makes it back to Kerbin.
dont land on slopes, and its not literally impossible, i've done it with fuel left over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2015, 10:27:25 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 02:49:34 pm
Mun continues to be my archnemesis. Regardless of design there seems to be a 50/50 chance the ship just lands helplessly on its side.
On top of this it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to bring enough fuel to land and take off again into a stable orbit, let alone one that makes it back to Kerbin.


most of the time bringing too much fuel is the issue. fuel is heavy, and lots of heavy tanks are inefficient when compared to dropping smaller empty tanks as you climb

also engines, those weigh A LOT. there are a couple of effect there:
more fuel require more engine to slow down and land. less engine require less energy to move about, but requires longer burn to change velocity - the longer the burn, the more fuel wasted to gravity. you need to hit a good spot between acceleration and engine mass to actually save fuel.

you need to not think in term of fuel, but in term of delta-v and trust-to-weight. a capsule with one flt-200 and a lv-909 should be able to get back from mun and to kerbin iirc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 22, 2015, 10:55:20 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P
Or even better, just use KER. Disable the in-flight windows and you won't have anything intrusive in the game at all, just useful stat displays in the design bay.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 22, 2015, 10:58:49 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 21, 2015, 02:49:34 pm
Mun continues to be my archnemesis. Regardless of design there seems to be a 50/50 chance the ship just lands helplessly on its side.
On top of this it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to bring enough fuel to land and take off again into a stable orbit, let alone one that makes it back to Kerbin.
I'm still fairly rookie at this, I got around both the fuel and tipping issue by building a super simple lander/returner. The center is a MK1 capsule, service bay with batteries and goo and sciency stuff, 1 of the medium sized basic fuel tanks and a terrier, then attached with connectors to the side, I have 3 small fuel tanks with terriers. I used the small fuel tanks for landing, the extra width they add makes it stable (landing legs seemed optional since they barely touched), and it guarantees you a full fuel tank for your burn home.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 22, 2015, 11:33:23 am
My problem with landing is usually striking a fine balance between "Gosh, this is taking awhile" and "Gosh, the ground sure is approaching fast". It doesn't help that(barring mods) you never know what your altitude AGL(above ground level) is - your altimeter only shows seal level(even on waterless bodies, like Mun).

Another thing you need to do is cancel your horizontal velocity - THAT will make you flip over. If your pilot/core(I refuse to touch MechJeb by the way) can handle prograde/retrograde automatically, it's easiest just to set them to point retro and keep a low thrust. Over time, your retrograde vector will point up, indicating that your are falling straight down. If you have the patience and relatively fine control you can pilot that manuever yourself.

After that, it's a matter of hitting the ground at the slowest possible velocity. Lander legs have a max impact tolerance of around 30m/s, but I try to get it at half that. Don't overthrust, keep a low(barely above none) thrust to slow yourself down as you come down the last few meters of your landing.


And yeah, getting back isn't that hard. I've had success(not recently) landing and coming back using either the smallest Rockomax tank(serves as the base of the lander) and three of the radial engines(Thuds I think they're called - the largest radial available I believe), as substituting that tank with the largest Monopropellant tank and appropriate thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 11:37:29 am
Quote from: Akura on May 22, 2015, 11:33:23 am
My problem with landing is usually striking a fine balance between "Gosh, this is taking awhile" and "Gosh, the ground sure is approaching fast". It doesn't help that(barring mods) you never know what your altitude AGL(above ground level) is - your altimeter only shows seal level(even on waterless bodies, like Mun).
Look from inside the cockpit, there's an altitude meter that measures from the ground up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on May 22, 2015, 11:41:48 am
Using squat designs for landers also helps considerably with landing woes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 22, 2015, 12:35:48 pm
some design ideas for starting landers:

this is fairly low tech, has plentiful fuel to go wherever and it's a solid "starter" design, just put it in kerbin orbit and it will go to mun and back on its own:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


this is a little higher in tech, but weights a LOT less so the ascent stage is way smaller; has less fuel so requires to be injected in mun orbit by a tug or something, but still has plenty to land and return to kerbin:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)



the second lander trades a little fuel (always compare fuel to weight!) for being able to survive reentry with all science attached - notice the heat shield on top AND bottom of the second stage.

edit: then you have this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 22, 2015, 02:43:01 pm
Don't the legs burn off during takeoff from Kerbin? Or otherwise create problems with drag?


And though it seems counter-intuitive, disable SAS on touchdown. I've had multiple probes make a good landing and then topple because they bounced a little, and SAS tried to keep the angle at 90 degrees rather than letting gravity (however miniscule) take control. This led to me trying to manually bring that loose leg down and flipping the whole shebang. Doesn't matter so much if you found a perfectly flat landing spot. But if you're like me and have a knack for landing on the side of a crater....  :-\


I did a close-shave Munar flyby with Jeb, Bob and Bill and was quite proud of myself. At closest approach, I was skimming by the Munar surface at an elevation of only 200m (and praying that there weren't any mountain ranges in my path). So proud that I warped home.....and exploded into dust as the game failed to de-warp in time. FML. >_<

And I didn't have a quicksave, so I'm out the 60K or so for the rocket, and I had to wait for the boys to respawn.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 22, 2015, 02:52:47 pm
This works fine* for me. (I tried putting it in an aeroshell, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference, and looked terrible)

It's also only a probe, though, and the engine on the bottom is the tiniest engine there is. I forget its name. It says something about being an engine for ants in its description, I think.

* I've only landed it on the mun once, and did not make orbit with it, but that's because I wasted almost all of its delta v thrusting constantly from a very high altitude, because I haven't installed and don't want to use MechJeb in 1.0, and was trying to figure out how the heck to land without exploding on impact still.

(But I haven't really played since then, because I'm waiting for 1.0.3 to come out and make all my rockets obsolete, so...)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 22, 2015, 03:32:23 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 22, 2015, 02:43:01 pm
And though it seems counter-intuitive, disable SAS on touchdown.
Unless you are like me and often overcompensate on the RCS and reaction wheels, so SAS can instead hold you at an angle preventing you from flipping over at all. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 22, 2015, 03:41:48 pm
Holy shit, all these landers are super duper tall. Mine is an MK1 lander can with a service bay on the bottom and a detachable thruster stage on the TOP, which is two 909s attached to the smallest 1.25 fuel tank with four of those super tiny tanks mounted radially for some extra fuel.

Super duper squat. It doesn't use the top thrusters for landing, though. I have a stage on the bottom that's a standard 1.25m tank and a terrier. I drop it just before touchdown.

This works really well. Doesn't include a science junior, though. It includes a probe core in the service bay so I can pack a scientist instead of a pilot. Fairly high-tech, though, since you need most of the 90-science techs.

E: Also, I don't really use the pilot functions much, they drain electriccharge like crazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 03:49:56 pm
I just landed these on Mun.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Zero protection from Kerbin's atmosphere, but that didn't seem to matter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 pm
All your designs are like 3x smaller then anything I would feel comfortable launching from the Mun, nevermind landing with it first o.o

My last "landing" was marred by landing on a giant slope of doom and promptly flipping over, so about half my remaining fuel got wasted thrusting horizontally to try and hit a bump, so that's the other thing.

But even when I end up over perfectly flat terrain I've always had flipping. While having a total surface velocity of 5m/s usually. Even after making wider bases.

Er, anyone know how tweakscale affects thrust/weight/etc. values? Latest design used a 1.25m poodle instead of a terrier, which I THOUGHT would have higher thrust, but don't know now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2015, 04:22:17 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 pm
All your designs are like 3x smaller then anything I would feel comfortable launching from the Mun, nevermind landing with it first o.o
When it comes to rockets, less is more. You can get a TON of delta-v by using a tiny lander and engine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 04:40:55 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 pm
Er, anyone know how tweakscale affects thrust/weight/etc. values? Latest design used a 1.25m poodle instead of a terrier, which I THOUGHT would have higher thrust, but don't know now.
Last I checked (which was a couple versions ago to be fair) downscaled engines tended to be overpowered compared to their default size equivalents. You use MechJeb, right? It should tell you the Isp as well as the TWR which can be used to derive the thrust.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sneakey pete on May 22, 2015, 04:43:03 pm
Also, the amount of fuel you need to return from the mun is quite low and I know that, at least, I used to bring way to much which needed a bigger rocket etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 22, 2015, 04:50:52 pm
hm...the kraken seems to strike my science lab whenever I load it, it isn't even that big, there are 2 random solar pannels that falls off 5 seconds after loading from the science lab itself then the 2.5m cargo falls off that is attached to the lab. The only thing I can think of is the materials science experiment that is inside of the 2.5m cargo.

Edit, installed kerbal joint reinforcement, the 2.5m service bay blows up when loading now. :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 05:05:09 pm
To be fair, that manned probe has like 300 dV left. My landers only have to rendezvous with my Mun Station though.

Whether or not 300 dV is enough for that I'm not sure xD.  can always send a rescue ship though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 05:42:19 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 04:40:55 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 pm
Er, anyone know how tweakscale affects thrust/weight/etc. values? Latest design used a 1.25m poodle instead of a terrier, which I THOUGHT would have higher thrust, but don't know now.
Last I checked (which was a couple versions ago to be fair) downscaled engines tended to be overpowered compared to their default size equivalents. You use MechJeb, right? It should tell you the Isp as well as the TWR which can be used to derive the thrust.
I do not use MechJeb, or Kerbal Engineer or any such things that would tell me, thus the question.
Still, sorta figured the downscaled poodle was OP. And I STILL had to turn on infinite fuel to not die.

I have this terrible feeling I will eventually use less rockets to get off Eve then I will to abscond from the Mun.

Also, just downloaded USI Kolonization. How do I get it to play nice with TAC? Right now the outputs for the life support things are "supplies" instead of food, water and oxygen, as is right and proper.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 07:15:44 pm
Oh, must have been thinking of someone else. Well I just remembered that the right-click menu will show the current Isp and thrust of an engine during flight so you can do that. And you can easily figure the mass out by using the Engineer's Report in the bottom right of the VAB.


Got a rough draft for the core of my SSTLAB attempt:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's 410 tonnes right now, and should have about a 30 tonne margin for wings and such. The xenon storage needs to be expanded a bit and it will probably need some more turbojets and liquidfuel before the wings go on, and who knows how much reworking will need to go into that. Still, I'm convinced this is doable, and it's impossible to not get inspired by the sound of 18 turbojets spooling up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 22, 2015, 07:27:03 pm
SSTLAB?

Single Stage To... where exactly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 07:32:20 pm
Laythe and back, without refueling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 08:22:44 pm
Gonna need a LOT of power generation to run all those ions at the same time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 09:33:11 pm
Electricity is really the least of my concerns right now. The biggest engineering challenge right now is balancing all the fuel, making sure there are enough jet engines and getting the whole thing to fly an efficient ascent path.

I've done a first pass with adding wings and it looks far better now. Amazingly, with a few tweaks it actually became flyable and would have gotten into orbit if I hadn't screwed up the fuel lines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 22, 2015, 09:42:08 pm
How do you even attach all those engines to one fuel tank?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 22, 2015, 09:46:50 pm
Electricity is a HUGE concern. Take a good look at the weight of the Gigantor's, because they don't work so well out at Jool distances from the sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 09:56:29 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 22, 2015, 09:42:08 pm
How do you even attach all those engines to one fuel tank?
The structural part that looks like a docking port and/or actual docking ports and/or cubic octagonal struts.

Quote from: BigD145 on May 22, 2015, 09:46:50 pm
Electricity is a HUGE concern. Take a good look at the weight of the Gigantor's, because they don't work so well out at Jool distances from the sun.
0.3 tonnes, or 5.6 tonnes if I put on one for each ion engine. Even if I need twice that many, it's still just a drop in the bucket for the now-approaching 600 tonne craft. Worst case scenario, my burns take a little longer.

Edit: Okay, sent up a test craft and solar panels are much weaker at Jool than I expected. Gigantors produced less than 1 EC per second. I hadn't realized the efficiency was quite that steep now. RTGs will likely be the most mass-efficient option.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on May 23, 2015, 12:18:41 am
So, since when did kerbals get super durable? It seems like going EVA in Kerbin atmosphere is almost always a viable way to survive a craft now. It's like, I don't even have to worry about my kerbals if I lose my parachutes or something. They can just jump out and bounce weirdly on the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 12:58:03 am
And yet, just falling a couple meters on Eve is enough to kill my kerbals. It all depends on how they land.

Right, RTGs it is. I can power all the ions 100% for a reasonable 16 tonnes. The real issue is part count, since that will be 198 extra parts on an already laggy craft. I'll probably reduce it to 8 ion engines. I wanted to keep the acceleration above 0.01g, but clearly that isn't happening.

...Oh wait, with only 8 engines the ~2000 m/s transfer burns will take 14 hours each. Shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 23, 2015, 03:54:52 am
Quote from: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 05:42:19 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 22, 2015, 04:40:55 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 pm
Er, anyone know how tweakscale affects thrust/weight/etc. values? Latest design used a 1.25m poodle instead of a terrier, which I THOUGHT would have higher thrust, but don't know now.
Last I checked (which was a couple versions ago to be fair) downscaled engines tended to be overpowered compared to their default size equivalents. You use MechJeb, right? It should tell you the Isp as well as the TWR which can be used to derive the thrust.
I do not use MechJeb, or Kerbal Engineer or any such things that would tell me, thus the question.
Still, sorta figured the downscaled poodle was OP. And I STILL had to turn on infinite fuel to not die.

I have this terrible feeling I will eventually use less rockets to get off Eve then I will to abscond from the Mun.

Also, just downloaded USI Kolonization. How do I get it to play nice with TAC? Right now the outputs for the life support things are "supplies" instead of food, water and oxygen, as is right and proper.
I don't get your dislike for KER. It's a very useful mod, and lets you make sure your rocket won't suddenly have too little power to ascend halfway through a gravity turn. The in-flight HUD shows apoapsis and periapsis, so you dont have to switch to the map screen constantly. It also has a very useful surface altitude and horizontal speed indicator.

It's literally just numbers, and big data readouts look pretty cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 23, 2015, 03:58:50 am
Yeah, KER doesn't autopilot for you or anything: It just provides you with data. Which you would think you would already have, but I guess the devs don't want to drown people in numbers when they can just let them try things and see what happens (until they get frustrated at not knowing if they'll even be able to take off, and look for a mod to let them see those numbers).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 23, 2015, 04:16:38 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P

I'm pretty sure the in-game statistics tab tells you your /\V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 23, 2015, 04:18:39 am
Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 23, 2015, 04:16:38 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P

I'm pretty sure the in-game statistics tab tells you your /\V
what in-game statistics tab
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 23, 2015, 05:45:52 am
Quote from: Sensei on May 23, 2015, 12:18:41 am
So, since when did kerbals get super durable? It seems like going EVA in Kerbin atmosphere is almost always a viable way to survive a craft now. It's like, I don't even have to worry about my kerbals if I lose my parachutes or something. They can just jump out and bounce weirdly on the ground.

I dropped two from the same rocket as a test.  They both survived kerbin reentry, and the one in freefall bounced.  The one using his eva pack to try to slow, he splatted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2015, 05:47:49 am
Quote from: puke on May 23, 2015, 05:45:52 am
Quote from: Sensei on May 23, 2015, 12:18:41 am
So, since when did kerbals get super durable? It seems like going EVA in Kerbin atmosphere is almost always a viable way to survive a craft now. It's like, I don't even have to worry about my kerbals if I lose my parachutes or something. They can just jump out and bounce weirdly on the ground.

I dropped two from the same rocket as a test.  They both survived kerbin reentry, and the one in freefall bounced.  The one using his eva pack to try to slow, he splatted.
What speed were they going? I've never had a kerbal survive reentry since they added in heating.

I have had one bounce when it was ragdolled, but only if it landed on the helmet
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 23, 2015, 05:48:22 am
Quote from: Sensei on May 23, 2015, 12:18:41 am
So, since when did kerbals get super durable? It seems like going EVA in Kerbin atmosphere is almost always a viable way to survive a craft now. It's like, I don't even have to worry about my kerbals if I lose my parachutes or something. They can just jump out and bounce weirdly on the ground.
Since forever. You have to be able to get them to land right but if you do they just bounce a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 23, 2015, 07:33:23 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2015, 05:47:49 am
I dropped two from the same rocket as a test.  They both survived kerbin reentry, and the one in freefall bounced.  The one using his eva pack to try to slow, he splatted.
What speed were they going? I've never had a kerbal survive reentry since they added in heating.

I have had one bounce when it was ragdolled, but only if it landed on the helmet
[/quote]

My bouncer belly (or back?) flopped, and the splatter landed on his butt while jetting.

They went straight up to about 450km and back down, so they were not reentering at orbital speeds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 23, 2015, 07:40:14 am
Quote from: miauw62 on May 23, 2015, 03:54:52 am
I don't get your dislike for KER.
I don't dislike it! I just never downloaded it :P
I probably should.

Anyway, anyone have any help on the USI thing? Not sure how to make it play nice with TAC.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 23, 2015, 07:43:16 am
I've done some testing with fairings, and it appears that the most efficient ones are pointier until the increased weight makes them less efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 23, 2015, 09:40:20 am
Quote from: TheDarkStar on May 23, 2015, 07:43:16 am
I've done some testing with fairings, and it appears that the most efficient ones are pointier until the increased weight makes them less efficient.

Check this out: 
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122595-Some-rough-test-results-with-different-nosecones

Its a 1.25 test rocket, so the 2.5 cone is not fairly treated.  But it is really great data on performance.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 23, 2015, 09:57:36 am
...
Tail connector A?

woooot

also why are air intakes better than nosecones
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 23, 2015, 11:05:40 am
Because they suck air in and pull it through the aircraft and out the engine. Cones are just a way to split the air around the craft like a knife as opposed to a flat surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 23, 2015, 11:26:28 am
Quote from: Graknorke on May 23, 2015, 05:48:22 am
Quote from: Sensei on May 23, 2015, 12:18:41 am
So, since when did kerbals get super durable? It seems like going EVA in Kerbin atmosphere is almost always a viable way to survive a craft now. It's like, I don't even have to worry about my kerbals if I lose my parachutes or something. They can just jump out and bounce weirdly on the ground.
Since forever. You have to be able to get them to land right but if you do they just bounce a lot.

If I recall, it's the helmet. They land on the helmet, they survive.


Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2015, 04:18:39 am
Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 23, 2015, 04:16:38 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P

I'm pretty sure the in-game statistics tab tells you your /\V
what in-game statistics tab
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 01:31:48 pm
The "Engineer's Report" icon in the bottom right of the screen in the VAB. It doesn't tell you the delta-V, but it does tell you the mass so you can calculate dV with the rocket equation. I've been using it instead of MechJeb or Engineer since I wanted to keep the game vanilla before going on a massive modding binge.


Well the "Solitude Mk. 1" SSTLAB is scrapped. I'm not leaving KSP running for days at a time while making ion burns. I went back to the drawing board and tried a more minimalistic design. I ended up with something about 60 tonnes and with theoretically enough fuel to get the job done but not enough TWR to make orbit. It's like one of Zeno's paradoxes. As soon as I get enough fuel mass, it needs more engines, I add more engines, it needs more fuel, etc. I know it balances out somewhere, but where?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 23, 2015, 03:25:47 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 01:31:48 pm
I know it balances out somewhere, but where?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr8KOst68cQ
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 23, 2015, 03:52:06 pm
I had a kerbonaut fall through Eve's atmosphere and not die when he hit the ground (but I don't remember whether he landed on his head). He wasn't using his jetpack at the time, as he ran out of fuel before reaching the ground (I tried to push him towards the nearby sea).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 23, 2015, 03:59:14 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 23, 2015, 03:52:06 pm
I had a kerbonaut fall through Eve's atmosphere and not die when he hit the ground (but I don't remember whether he landed on his head). He wasn't using his jetpack at the time, as he ran out of fuel before reaching the ground (I tried to push him towards the nearby sea).
You can drop almost anything into eve and have it survive so long as it doesn't overheat. The atmosphere is like syrup. I had a probe land unpowered with no parachutes on EVE with no damage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 04:19:08 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 23, 2015, 03:25:47 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 01:31:48 pm
I know it balances out somewhere, but where?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr8KOst68cQ

Two things:

1. That was back when you could get to orbital velocities with jet engines alone.

2. He didn't worry about coming back.

Jet engines now top out at about 1000 m/s, and even if you have the TWR required to break that, any faster and you start burning up.

I've ruled out ion engines since I'd need a truly absurd number of parts to get any reasonable acceleration. I could get that mod that allows engines to run in time warp, but I want this to be 100% stock. That leaves nuclear engines, which simplifies the equations somewhat since I only need to worry about one type of fuel rather than three. I just wish I had paid more attention in optimization class.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 23, 2015, 07:34:08 pm
RAPIERs can get you significantly more thrust than jet engines. I doubt it'll work with that monstrosity due to drag, but I believe I showed a small jet earlier that had one rapier, a precooler, and a nose-intake which could take off and aim straight up and reach 75km. Of course that was with no scientific equipment or means of doing anything useful once it got there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 08:14:15 pm
I had looked at the RAPIER before moving on to turbojets, but from what I saw they were not much better and less efficient. Now that I look at it again I see that, at least with high TWR craft, they can build up more speed and, more importantly, operate at higher altitudes. I'll have to see how well they work on something bigger, thanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 23, 2015, 08:23:23 pm
You may want to use plane old turbojet (not ramjet) engines to climb to 10km. They're extremely efficient compared to the other jet engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 23, 2015, 09:18:01 pm
Quote from: Leonon on May 23, 2015, 08:23:23 pm
You may want to use plane old turbojet (not ramjet) engines to climb to 10km. They're extremely efficient compared to the other jet engines.
I know, but they're also pretty heavy for their power output. If I did that, I would have to dedicate around an eighth of the ship to basic jets. Past the sound barrier where the RAPIER and Ramjet really start to pick up is where most of the fuel use is anyway.

I've built a 50 tonne test SSTO that can theoretically get around 7000 delta-V from its NERVA, but it keeps burning up during ascent.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 23, 2015, 09:30:19 pm
The trick is to go up fast enough that you aren't on fire long enough for anything to explode. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 23, 2015, 11:17:51 pm
Successfully completed my first docking!!

HOLY SHIT THAT WAS NERVE-WRACKING  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 23, 2015, 11:49:47 pm
I been playing long enough that I may as well PTW this thread.

Still not achieved orbit even once, came awfully close with a small rocket today though. Made it half way around the world.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 23, 2015, 11:50:05 pm
Before 1.0, I absolutely sucked at docking, and could only do so after wasting giant amounts of fuel to rendezvous. But the first time I tried in 1.0 I was able to do it perfectly on my first try, and it is instinctual now.  I don't know what the hell happened. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on May 24, 2015, 02:01:39 am
With inspiration and advice from this thread, I built my first Mun lander and performed my first successful propulsive landing yesterday. The first test flight, flown under remote control, came down in a steep-walled crater, fell over and broke apart, but proved the design nonetheless. On the second flight I maneuvered to avoid hazards while still high up and the ship set down on a gentle slope. Jeb and company planted a flag and a plaque about how they came in peace for all Kerbalkind.

Out of an abundance of caution, I ended up thrusting for longer than I should have during the descent. On the ascent, my crew nearly fell victim to the cold equations when they turned out to not have enough fuel to make orbit on the main engine. I managed to get them into orbit on RCS thrusters and used the dregs of the monopropellant to rendezvous with my Munar space station, completing the mission with no deaths.

The lander wasn't designed for Kerbin entry, so the crew's currently aboard one of my seven-place Kerbin-to-orbit shuttles along with other personnel I'm finally recovering from the station, ready to undock and fly home. It remains to be seen whether this shuttle will be the first ship coming home from the Mun that doesn't run out of main-engine fuel and have to complete its burns on RCS.

For that matter, on the next launch I should reduce shuttle weight by removing the emergency decoupler that jettisons the Hitchhiker Storage Container and the main chutes. I just know I'm going to forget to set stage-lock and accidentally fire it in a situation that kills everyone.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 24, 2015, 04:06:14 am
Whenever I rendezvous I have to wait like fifty orbits before the encounters get close enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on May 24, 2015, 07:07:14 am
Quote from: Leonon on May 23, 2015, 08:23:23 pm
plane old
I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 24, 2015, 07:24:18 am
docking?

justuse.mechjeb
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 24, 2015, 07:33:21 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 23, 2015, 04:18:39 am
Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 23, 2015, 04:16:38 am
Quote from: Dutchling on May 22, 2015, 10:51:18 am
(this is assuming you don't already use MechJeb and that you don't really want to start using it)

Just use MechJeb is in the vehicle editor to make sure you have sufficient dV, then delete the part before launch.

Now you'll know whether you suck at building ships or if you just suck at piloting them :P

I'm pretty sure the in-game statistics tab tells you your /\V
what in-game statistics tab
Begin a flight
Open the map
Click the button on the right-middle called "info" or something
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 12:32:55 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 23, 2015, 11:17:51 pm
Successfully completed my first docking!!

HOLY SHIT THAT WAS NERVE-WRACKING  :o

Lucky you. I just realized how hard it is when I decided to build my space station in multiple parts. I'm making my third attempt in a few minutes now. Wish me luck.
(That post is also basically just a thinly veiled PTW.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 24, 2015, 12:39:22 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on May 24, 2015, 07:24:18 am
docking?

justuse.mechjeb

IIRC, the MechJeb with docking assist doesn't unlock till 500 science tier.

Basically I made a concentric orbit about 3 km higher than the station, and waited for it to catch up. Since the station orbit is about 85km, an orbital period is just a little over a half-hour. Took about a day or so to sync up.

Then a couple of tiny ad-hoc burns to close the gap down to within 0.3km. Then the REAL fun started -- trying to use frantic RCS manuevering to line shit up, while occasionally switching over to the station and rolling it so that the docking port was pointed toward my oncoming ship. Didn't quite line up and I had a heart-stopping moment when the ship bumped the station core and started wobbling but eventually the docking collars slipped into position. And there was much rejoicing.

Of course, now I realize that I've done a shit job of designing the station modules, and I'm going to have to seperate the two halves and put a multi-port link in between to allow for continued expansion (need a much bigger solar array, for one) and still need a fuel storage and a communications array. At least now that I've got a proven delivery vehicle, I can just swap out the payloads.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 24, 2015, 01:07:08 pm
Oh I play in Sandbox mode.

In Science mode MechJeb isn't ever gonna do anything for you you haven't already done yourself, most of the time.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 24, 2015, 01:51:35 pm
Made a neat SSTO with a cubic octagonal strut between the nervas and the rapiers so they can both work at the same time but are lined up. managed to get it to orbit without overheating anything on its first flight.
(http://i.imgur.com/z7AZNycs.png) (http://imgur.com/z7AZNyc.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 24, 2015, 01:53:59 pm
For those having docking trouble, any vessel with the ability to SAS toward target is able to continue doing so while switched to a different craft in the physics bubble, so you can have both controlled from the docking port and targeting the opposite docking port and they will auto line up.

Very handy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 24, 2015, 01:54:40 pm
There is a pretty good trick to docking if you have a level one pilot or probe. Once you get close enough (within ~2km, at least), engage SAS, switch the navball to target mode, and use the retrograde lock. Burn till relative speed is zero, then burn directly at your target at least till your prograde marker is directly over the target marker. Profit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 24, 2015, 02:51:12 pm
That is less a trick and more a "absolute necessity to even begin to rendezvous with something, let alone try and attach something to it"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 03:00:44 pm
There are other ways to do it, but it's still a trick. It's as much a trick as memorizing a multiplication table over doing the math longhand.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 24, 2015, 03:03:11 pm
For large stations, one way to make docking easier is to align the station along the normal and anti-normal (North/South for an equatorial orbit) with a docking port at either end. This way, the docking ports remain pointed in one direction while the station orbits. Then for docking, all you need to do is align yourself with the (anti-)normal and use the RCS controls to shift your ship into the right position. You'll know it's directly aligned with the station's docking port when the target marker is right under your orientation marker on the navball.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 03:35:12 pm
AUGH. Having my two parts meet is so hard :(. I can't get them to be close enough at a correct speed to perform docking. My problem is that whenever I try to slow down, I get moved away from the station, and whenever I try to correct that by moving towards it, I start going too fast, forcing me to restart this over and over until it is too late. I think I'll try watching some tutorials on youtube before I try again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 24, 2015, 04:12:27 pm
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 03:35:12 pm
AUGH. Having my two parts meet is so hard :(. I can't get them to be close enough at a correct speed to perform docking.

Lol. Try posting on the lower boards for help.  Maybe the Life Advice section or whatever its called ;)

Edits: more seriously though, close the final distance with RCS not your main engines.  and make sure you're targeting the docking part, not just the ship in general.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: The13thRonin on May 24, 2015, 04:16:40 pm
Quote from: puke on May 24, 2015, 04:12:27 pm
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 03:35:12 pm
AUGH. Having my two parts meet is so hard :(. I can't get them to be close enough at a correct speed to perform docking.

Lol. Try posting on the lower boards for help.  Maybe the Life Advice section or whatever its called ;)

Careful with the amount of thrust :P.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 04:25:33 pm
Spoiler: xpxpxpxpxpxpxpxpxpxpxp (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 24, 2015, 04:33:11 pm
So I've scienced the shores, the landing strip, launch-pad, ocean, grasslands, highlands, and mountains. Also the atmosphere.

I even have the Science Lab Canister now, but still can't get into orbit or escape the planet. This... is frustrating.

Edit: Do structural struts... do I need to attach them to decouplers like I've been doing if the parts I'm connecting are connected via decouplers?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 24, 2015, 04:38:57 pm
Nope.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 24, 2015, 04:54:32 pm
Well, that saves me some weight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 24, 2015, 05:13:51 pm
Manged to perform the "split station in half, insert new module in between the two and pull off TWO docking manuevers" bit, despite making several terrible design choices.

One, the command module for the station is aligned more or less 90 degrees to the rest of the station, meaning that I can't really use the navball for docking.
Two, I only put enough RCS blocks on it to account for two axes, leaving me no lateral control.
Three, I *still* don't have an open docking port for the final module (fuel storage), so I'm going to have to split the damn thing again and insert another module.
Four, despite putting a crapton of solar panels and about 2100 units of battery storage, because the orbit is so low (~87km) it spends way too much time in Kerbin's shadow. The science lab runs the batteries down just an hour or two into nighttime.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 05:22:03 pm
You should still be able to "control from" docking port.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 24, 2015, 06:52:31 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 03:00:44 pm
There are other ways to do it, but it's still a trick. It's as much a trick as memorizing a multiplication table over doing the math longhand.
Hey! I was there before they invented memorizing! No, no... wait. That's not right. I was there before SAS could track targets! :p (It still seems like quite a new trick to me)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 07:10:43 pm
How do you guys manage that docking thing XP? I can't seem to stabilize during the final maneuvers. It seems that as I go closer the minimum speed I can reach increase, forcing me to go faster and faster as I'm nearing my target. I think I really need help. Tutorials on youtube don't seem to help much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 24, 2015, 09:54:43 pm
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 24, 2015, 07:10:43 pm
How do you guys manage that docking thing XP? I can't seem to stabilize during the final maneuvers. It seems that as I go closer the minimum speed I can reach increase, forcing me to go faster and faster as I'm nearing my target. I think I really need help. Tutorials on youtube don't seem to help much.
As other people have said, use RCS not thrusters. Which means making sure you have RCS laid out so that you have a pair of nozzles pointing along each axis.


The built-in tutorial was pretty helpful for me. Once you get close, switch to Target mode and use the RCS to try and line your ship and the target up so that the target marker is aligned with your prograde marker. Once that's done, thrust forward gently with RCS (default keybind is H) and coast toward your target. Keep your prograde indicator lined up with the target indicator, and keep your relative speed low. If you're coming in a bit too fast, RCS back (default keybind -- N).

The main thing is to get relative speed very low before you start manuevering. If you're still at >10 m/s, it's easy to go flying right back your target (or have it fly by you). Ideally, you want it at or under 1 m/s until you get your prograde/target aligned. Then you can increase speed a bit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 10:17:24 pm
Your RCS need to be balanced around your COM.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 24, 2015, 10:41:30 pm
It doesn't "need" to, really. It's a help if it is, but you really only need your RCS to have sufficient control authority for SAS to keep you level.

When you're on final approach, switch to fine controls mode. If you're still overshooting with fine controls, you may need to pack less RCS thrusters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 10:45:48 pm
For anyone that is having trouble, yes it needs to be. Otherwise they'll likely drift off target without really undrstanding why.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 24, 2015, 10:58:20 pm
One trick when you're intercepting after getting close (20km-ish) but before you start docking (500m-ish) is to not quite point straight at you target as you burn. That way if you overshoot nothing explodes.

This also lets you safely get closer using your main engines (assuming you can flip around in time) than you otherwise could.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 24, 2015, 11:05:37 pm
The quest for the SSTLAB continues! Today I built a simple 30 tonne LF-only SSTO and flew it to Laythe. It got there with 52 units of fuel left, which is kind of amazing since at full fuel its LV-Ns could only produce a maximum of 4350 m/s. I have severely underestimated the capability of the RAPIER's jet mode.

I've also calculated that I would need about a 4:1 ratio of fueled mass to empty mass, which seems pretty low. I'm actually kind of surprised no one has done it in 1.0 so far to my knowledge. From what I've seen, the optimal TWR values are around 1.2 for the RAPIERs (assuming an average thrust of 200 kN) and 0.5 for the nukes. This seems eminently doable. Soon I'll calculate exactly how many fuel tanks and engines I'd need and hopefully get a prototype built.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 24, 2015, 11:39:05 pm
I think I'm getting the hang of this whole heavy lifter concept.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What's that payload up there? Oh just a single USI Kontainer, nothing special.....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Full of Uranium, 714 Tons of it, and 10 tons for the Kontainer.
For reference the First stage has 1800 tons of LFO and 9 Mammoths,,Stage 2 has 384 tons of LFO in 12 Boars, Third stage 800 tons with 9 Rhinos, and the final stage has 225 tons of Fuel and 40 Nervs.
Every stage but 1 has a TWR less than 1 when it's first fired, First stage has a mere TWR of .70 at sea level but after lighting up the boars this soars to 1.69, after 47 seconds when the boars are finished the First stage continues with a TWR of 1.25.
When stage 2 is lit the TWR is a mere .85, but as acceleration remains high both altitude and speed continue to increase and in a few seconds the decreased fuel and higher altitude allows TWR to clear 1 again.
When the final nuclear stage lights off the rocket has reached 50 km altitude with an apoapsis of 60km and is almost at Orbital velocity, 310 dv is needed to reach final orbit and even with a TWR of .25 there is just enough thrust to increase apoapsis faster than the rocket approaches it. Soon AP hits 80 and the now 1800 degree engines are allowed to cool for a brief 2 minutes while coasting towards it, raising periapsis requires a short burp of power and a mere 40 dV.
Total was just over 4020 dV which is quite high, however the low thrust engines require reaching high altitude and apoapsis as early as possible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 25, 2015, 01:09:16 am
I think the UN would like to have a word with you about your orbital WMD there....  :o
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Eric Blank on May 25, 2015, 01:35:24 am
That's fission reactor fuel, for the space station.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Leonon on May 25, 2015, 02:06:39 am
That's more than 10% of the IRL yearly global production of the stuff.

Why do you need that much uranium in space? What's that space station going to do?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 25, 2015, 02:13:40 am
Total Time Playing KSP: >48 Hours
Total Successful Munar Orbits (Not in Scenario Mode): 0
Total Career Mode Kerbin Orbits: 0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on May 25, 2015, 02:24:40 am
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on May 25, 2015, 02:13:40 am
Total Time Playing KSP: >48 Hours
Total Successful Munar Orbits (Not in Scenario Mode): 0
Total Career Mode Kerbin Orbits: 0
Looks like you need more stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 25, 2015, 02:26:33 am
Quote from: Leonon on May 25, 2015, 02:06:39 am
That's more than 10% of the IRL yearly global production of the stuff.

Why do you need that much uranium in space? What's that space station going to do?
You see Ivan, when you ranium in space, much respect you get from the west.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 25, 2015, 02:47:28 am
Quote from: RedKing on May 25, 2015, 01:09:16 am
I think the UN would like to have a word with you about your orbital WMD there....  :o
*rocket starts tipping over* Well, time to start sounding the sirens. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 25, 2015, 03:18:02 am
I built a small go-kart out of a lander can, some modular girders, small landing gear and a pair of Spark engines. Fun little thing (and it lets me soak up all the science points for doing EVA/surface sample/temp/pressure/Mystery Goo all around the space center).

Mark II added an RCS tank and thruster block on top of the lander can, so I can back up. If I didn't mind going slow, I could probably propel the whole damn thing using nothing but RCS.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 25, 2015, 03:39:52 am
If you're orbiting kerbin and want to get to the Mun, all you really have to do is make a node and pull prograde until it intersects with the Muns orbit and then move the node until you get an intercept. Then you want to just burn retrograde at the Muns apoapsis.

Also, don't overengineer. Lighter craft need less fuel to get to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 25, 2015, 06:55:58 am
Also also, there's a tutorial on how to fly to the Mun in the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 08:16:28 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 24, 2015, 11:05:37 pm
The quest for the SSTLAB continues! Today I built a simple 30 tonne LF-only SSTO and flew it to Laythe. It got there with 52 units of fuel left, which is kind of amazing since at full fuel its LV-Ns could only produce a maximum of 4350 m/s. I have severely underestimated the capability of the RAPIER's jet mode.

I've also calculated that I would need about a 4:1 ratio of fueled mass to empty mass, which seems pretty low. I'm actually kind of surprised no one has done it in 1.0 so far to my knowledge. From what I've seen, the optimal TWR values are around 1.2 for the RAPIERs (assuming an average thrust of 200 kN) and 0.5 for the nukes. This seems eminently doable. Soon I'll calculate exactly how many fuel tanks and engines I'd need and hopefully get a prototype built.

Have a look at Cupcake Landers. He does almost nothing but build SSTO's. He's still hammering away at adjusting designs for 1.0.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 25, 2015, 10:51:34 am
I fly a plane that dropped a rover for a EVA surface report mission. I get two of them, but going for the third the rover flips, ejecting Jeb. For some reason I couldn't move Jeb, nor did right-clicking do anything but show Jeb's jetpack fuel(couldn't use the jetpack). Jeb was also listed as "debris", despite the rover seat still being attached to the rover.


Quote from: BigD145 on May 24, 2015, 05:22:03 pm
You should still be able to "control from" docking port.

This is the trick I use for docking recently. Doing this causes the navball to orient facing away from the docking port, and all controls based relative to the port - ie lock on to the other docking port and aim at the bright pink circle and your port is facing it, and using RCS forward key(H in normal mode, W in docking mode), and the RCS thrusters will push in the direction the port is facing.


@Marc: Why do you need enough Uranium to build an Exterminatus? What's more, why do you need enough Depleted Uranium to make enough anti-armor rounds to be an Exterminatus on its own?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 25, 2015, 10:53:11 am
About reaching mun, is it more efficient to try and raise your orbit as much as possible before attempting to reach the mun? I know that it takes less burn time when higher, but I'm not sure if it's worth the fuel it takes to reach that altitude.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 25, 2015, 10:57:38 am
I don't know. I always fly straight up until my apoapsis is in the ~80km range, then dip straight horizontally and blast until my orbit is straight. It works, but I don't know if it's efficient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 25, 2015, 11:08:31 am
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 25, 2015, 10:53:11 am
About reaching mun, is it more efficient to try and raise your orbit as much as possible before attempting to reach the mun? I know that it takes less burn time when higher, but I'm not sure if it's worth the fuel it takes to reach that altitude.
I don't think so.  At best it takes the same amount of fuel for both.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 11:41:12 am
Your sideways burn at 80km is going to be significantly more dV intensive than if you burn sideways in a gravity turn. You're looking at thousands more dV needed. Sometimes you have a payload that requires this, so...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 25, 2015, 11:49:17 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 11:41:12 am
Your sideways burn at 80km is going to be significantly more dV intensive than if you burn sideways in a gravity turn. You're looking at thousands more dV needed. Sometimes you have a payload that requires this, so...
Most of the time even with a very borked payload you can start turning at around 40-50 km, unless you are using a lifting stage with zero gimbal.  Which I have had to do once, since my payload was my normal superheavy lifter.   I had to build a new ultra superheavy lifter just to get it up, and I needed every extra bit of thrust possible.
If it helps, think of where your energy is going.  If you go straight up, then you not only have to burn to get up there, but also to get the ~2,200 km/s velocity needed for orbit.  If you use a gravity turn, then once you reach your orbit altitude  you already have a high speed, often of around 500-1000 km/s, so you take a large chunk out of
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 25, 2015, 12:45:23 pm
Quote from: timferius on May 25, 2015, 06:55:58 am
Also also, there's a tutorial on how to fly to the Mun in the game.

The tutorials just skip right past landing, which is just mind-boggling.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 12:46:47 pm
Tutorials were a sorta priority around... .23 I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 25, 2015, 12:48:05 pm
Landing is easy though, you just orbit, but miss.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 01:03:34 pm
Minmus is quite easy to land on if you're light enough. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27424-Cupcake-s-Dropship-Dealership?p=1969186&viewfull=1#post1969186)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 25, 2015, 01:10:11 pm
Minmus is just easy to land on. Gigantic color-coded flat spots and low gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 25, 2015, 01:32:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on May 25, 2015, 01:10:11 pm
Minmus is just easy to land on. Gigantic color-coded flat spots and low gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 25, 2015, 02:12:19 pm
Bad news. My initial calculations seem to suggest that the mass ratio and TWRs I wanted for my Single-Stage-To-Laythe-And-Back are actually impossible. I will have to go back and try to minimize my margin for error and the ascent TWR values. This will be very tight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 03:56:57 pm
Mun landing made simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmbUelyCdQw

Laythe SSTO pre 1.0 (with a couple detours on the way back) sans parachutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVj2fyJ4grc
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 25, 2015, 05:18:45 pm
Since we're talking landing advice, does anyone have good tips for targeted atmospheric landings? I haven't yet figured out a good way to put down anywhere near where I want to be with all that annoying "air" stuff in the way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 25, 2015, 05:23:19 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on May 25, 2015, 05:18:45 pm
Since we're talking landing advice, does anyone have good tips for targeted atmospheric landings? I haven't yet figured out a good way to put down anywhere near where I want to be with all that annoying "air" stuff in the way.
If you aren't on Laythe, you can still simulate a plane with a rocket engine.  Alternatively, you can cancel all movement relative to the surface and fall straight down. If none of that appeals to you. Mechjeb has a module that gives an approximate landing location with a big red x.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 25, 2015, 05:43:16 pm
So as I mentioned previously, having trouble with USI Kolonization using both TAC Lifesupport and its own crappy life support thing.
 
Tried getting help on the actual thread, but response was pretty much "Your computer is literally haunted" so here's screenshots of the relevant folders, anyone familiar know what I should be deleting/moving etc.? Note that I want to use TAC, not the crapsupport it comes with.

Spoiler: HELP PLOX (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 25, 2015, 05:56:20 pm
CKAN makes installing, uninstalling, and updating mods so much easier. I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 25, 2015, 06:12:52 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on May 25, 2015, 05:56:20 pm
CKAN makes installing, uninstalling, and updating mods so much easier. I highly recommend it.
I second this, despite the system still showing some known incompatible mods with 1.0. It's still just such a great tool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 25, 2015, 06:14:25 pm
But then I don't have the smug satisfaction of wading through the games files with my own mouse and deleting my problems!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 25, 2015, 06:43:49 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 25, 2015, 06:14:25 pm
But then I don't have the smug satisfaction of wading through the games files with my own mouse and deleting my problems!

*insert smug satisfaction of not using TAC or CKAN*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on May 25, 2015, 09:12:45 pm
Yay! Succesfully made and used a two piece lander/orbiter combo to send jeb down to get a delicious pail of moon dust to take back in my career game. 400 science for the trip and everything, and I managed to re-dock succsefully and get home!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 25, 2015, 10:14:26 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 25, 2015, 06:14:25 pm
But then I don't have the smug satisfaction of wading through the games files with my own mouse and deleting my problems!
I'm not sure what your problem is, I have a clean install running MKS which I have changed from USI life support to TAC, then back to USI life support again with no problems, each change successfully modified the Pioneer module to producing the correct resources :s
You might try diagnosing the problem the way I generally do when I'm running too many mods at once, take a clean install of KSP, then install only the newest version of MKS (30.4), and TAC life support 11.1.20 and see if it works. Then try shoving in other mods until something breaks.
I just checked my game, the tech tree correctly displays oxygen, water and food production on MKS modules.

EDIT: btw I just found a bug in the MKS configuration file for TAC lie support, Pioneer modules and Kerbitat's are only producing half the resources they should, effectively cutting efficiency down to 25% or 45%.
The fix is to open the TAC-LS.cfg file in the Umbra space industries/Kolonization folder and change the Output resource for food, water and oxygen for both the Pioneer and Kerbitat to the following values:
Code: [Select]
OUTPUT_RESOURCE
{
ResourceName = Food
Ratio =  0.000033854166666
DumpExcess = False
}
OUTPUT_RESOURCE
{
ResourceName = Water
Ratio = 0.000022376157408
DumpExcess = False
}
OUTPUT_RESOURCE
{
ResourceName = Oxygen
Ratio = 0.00342707512477
DumpExcess = False
}I suggest backing up the old file in case you make a mistake, make sure the backup doesn't end in .cfg otherwise it will get loaded as well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 26, 2015, 02:40:33 am
Well after hours of headache-inducing frustration I'm about ready to give up on calculating this. I don't know if I'm missing something or making a false assumption somewhere but I just can't seem to get the numbers to make sense. So I just threw a dozen of the biggest liquid fuel tanks and a bunch of engines together in the VAB and it looks like the best mass ratio you can get for a LF-only SSTO while maintaining a reasonable TWR is around 3. You might be able to make it to Laythe and back on that, but the margins would be razor thin. As much as I dread the thought of ion burns lasting multiple hours, it may be the only way.

There is one possible alternative. A small amount of oxidizer -just enough to ease the initial ascent- might be the key to beating the TWR requirements. Once on Laythe, the fuel burned getting there and the slightly weaker gravity would allow you to make orbit on the nukes. If it's at all feasible I intend to find out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 08:33:12 am
So is there anything special about building an outpost vs. an orbital station?

Other than the benefit of not having to worry about pieces floating away while moving them into docking position, and having to worry about this large, hard barrier thing called the ground?

Do all the pieces of the outpost have to be docked together? I'm working on my first Munbase and trying to decide whether to put the whole thing on stilts or let the modules rest on the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2015, 08:49:24 am
In the past, and probably still true due to the physics engine being the way it is, objects not on wheels or legs can bounce on the ground upon vehicle load. They might explode. They might fly up at 100m/s and then come down and explode. They might sink into the ground. Overall, bad things happen.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 08:56:19 am
Well, my first module did okay. Basically, I landed it on a three radial-mount thruster stage, then once it was landed, I detached the upper stage with the module and used RCS to drift it over and slowly down into place. it has a docking port, but I'm worried that ground occlusion might make lining up future docking ports a bit tricky.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2015, 09:05:10 am
Legs and wheels are big reasons to use docking ports. They help standardize your height and give you wiggle room to maneuver.

Switch back and forth between KSC and your vehicles and tell me how many it takes before something explodes. Do a little time warp at both locations as well. Engines have pretty good survivability for impacts so they may be okay, but I wouldn't trust them long term.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 10:18:53 am
Hmm....I'll have to test that. Right now, I have a Hitchhiker Module just resting on the Mun. So far, so good.

Would a claw be a good idea to have there, so I could use it to grab and re-arrange modules as needed? Or is that not that powerful?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2015, 10:42:13 am
Just don't attach claw to claw and I think you're fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 26, 2015, 11:09:26 am
So I went mod crazy...and put my game in hard/realism mode...

Primarily I am going to try an IVA only run to the moon using the internal panels from RasterPropMonitor. This obviously means I have to load up on external cameras...

I also have some mods like RemoteTech, KeepFit, DangIt!, and Entropy on as well. Oh and of course TAC life support.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2015, 11:15:48 am
Half of those aren't realism mods. They are "the RNG hates you" mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 26, 2015, 11:18:33 am
The rng hates real space programs too, of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 26, 2015, 11:21:15 am
Aye...plenty of dead astronauts and animals to prove it
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 26, 2015, 11:32:59 am
Using Imperial bolts in a Metric spec'd ship is not the RNG. Stress fractures are not the RNG. Fires are not the RNG.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 26, 2015, 11:37:15 am
yeah, but random "lol ur dead gg" isnt fun.
if you want to play with it, that's fine by me though vOv
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 26, 2015, 12:08:37 pm
It's not fine by me though. Uninstall those mods immediately.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 26, 2015, 12:17:40 pm
Stress fractures and fires may not be RNG issues, but unless you want to play Kerbal Back Office and Logistics Simulator, you'll have to settle for random abstractions of failure.

Hey, maybe one of the policies could increase or decrease the odds of a failure, by eithee cutting budgetary corners or padding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:43:55 pm
11 million kilometers, and my engineers were off by a crucial 0.5m or so.

Spoiler: God. Damn. It. (click to show/hide)


Very tempted to nuke the whole base from orbit and start over.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on May 26, 2015, 12:50:37 pm
lel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 26, 2015, 12:51:50 pm
this is why you test on kerbin
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 26, 2015, 12:52:58 pm
I am still keeping on reverting/quick loading precisely for the random pointless deaths I will encounter...but I am thinking and hoping that if I build my ships properly, with ways to escape catastrophe and escape vessels I should be fine in most cases
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:53:46 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 26, 2015, 12:51:50 pm
this is why you test on kerbin
How?? Build the entire station in the VAB, then save each chunk as a subassembly?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 26, 2015, 12:59:32 pm
I'm guessing that problem likely resulted from the mun's terrain at the landing site not being perfectly flat.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on May 26, 2015, 01:12:24 pm
This is why the modules of my stations are horizontal. Much easier to line docking ports then. Harder to land however. wheels are extremely useful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sensei on May 26, 2015, 01:16:02 pm
Is it on landing gear? With an action group you could thrust upward with RCS, and lock suspension at the right height.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 26, 2015, 01:20:39 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:53:46 pm
How?? Build the entire station in the VAB, then save each chunk as a subassembly?
That or assemble it somewhere with a skycrane.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 01:20:51 pm
No. Both modules have RCS, but the lower one had a probe core and the batteries ran out. The new module has a solar array, but can't transfer that power until they're linked.  :'(

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 26, 2015, 01:21:36 pm
Quote from: puke on May 26, 2015, 12:17:40 pm
Stress fractures and fires may not be RNG issues, but unless you want to play Kerbal Back Office and Logistics Simulator, you'll have to settle for random abstractions of failure.

Hey, maybe one of the policies could increase or decrease the odds of a failure, by eithee cutting budgetary corners or padding.
thing is though, random "lol you die now" is never really fun.

KSP isnt really flexible enough to do Apollo 13 style stuff, imo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 26, 2015, 01:27:33 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:53:46 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 26, 2015, 12:51:50 pm
this is why you test on kerbin
How?? Build the entire station in the VAB, then save each chunk as a subassembly?
Assemble each section and save them in the VAB. You can use the 'merge' button I believe to load another ship in. Then try connecting them and seeing the height difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 26, 2015, 01:37:38 pm
Quote from: puke on May 26, 2015, 12:17:40 pm
Stress fractures and fires may not be RNG issues, but unless you want to play Kerbal Back Office and Logistics Simulator, you'll have to settle for random abstractions of failure.
Or you could wait for the failures that YOU will inevitably bring to the table when you misjudge something. Look at RedKing down there, his Mun Base is fucked because he didn't standardize docking port height well enough.
It is much more immersive and fun to fail because YOU fucked something up then it is to fail because LOLTEHRANDOMS.

This is why I feel bad when cheating if I didn't bring enough dV, but not when my ship explodes for literally no reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Android on May 26, 2015, 03:13:06 pm
Okay so I am having some weirdness trying to make planes in 1.02. My pitch controls on the wings of my planes are sometimes inverse to what is expected (they pitch down when I want to pitch up, and vice versa). Any explanation for this?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MaximumZero on May 26, 2015, 04:55:06 pm
They automatically adjust to being in front of or behind the center of lift, apparently. I freaked out about that the first couple times, too, but they still work fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 26, 2015, 05:05:47 pm
Quote from: Android on May 26, 2015, 03:13:06 pm
Okay so I am having some weirdness trying to make planes in 1.02. My pitch controls on the wings of my planes are sometimes inverse to what is expected (they pitch down when I want to pitch up, and vice versa). Any explanation for this?
Well if what happened when Scott Manley's dad and bro tried to spaceplane is any indication, you MIGHT have flipped a control surface for forward sweep and it fucked the everything
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 26, 2015, 11:37:35 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:43:55 pm
11 million kilometers, and my engineers were off by a crucial 0.5m or so.
Very tempted to nuke the whole base from orbit and start over.
My solution to that is install kerbal inventory system then kerbal attachment system, bring a screwdriver then reposition the docking port, then remove the mods as they seem to cause random lag spikes with it either loading or regenerating the inventory images every 10 seconds or so.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Android on May 27, 2015, 03:21:06 pm
Quote from: MaximumZero on May 26, 2015, 04:55:06 pm
They automatically adjust to being in front of or behind the center of lift, apparently. I freaked out about that the first couple times, too, but they still work fine.

No, it certainly is not working proper. Pitch up should not be diving my nose down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 27, 2015, 03:43:00 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 26, 2015, 05:05:47 pm
Quote from: Android on May 26, 2015, 03:13:06 pm
Okay so I am having some weirdness trying to make planes in 1.02. My pitch controls on the wings of my planes are sometimes inverse to what is expected (they pitch down when I want to pitch up, and vice versa). Any explanation for this?
Well if what happened when Scott Manley's dad and bro tried to spaceplane is any indication, you MIGHT have flipped a control surface for forward sweep and it fucked the everything
ERHERM
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Android on May 27, 2015, 03:47:35 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 27, 2015, 03:43:00 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 26, 2015, 05:05:47 pm
Quote from: Android on May 26, 2015, 03:13:06 pm
Okay so I am having some weirdness trying to make planes in 1.02. My pitch controls on the wings of my planes are sometimes inverse to what is expected (they pitch down when I want to pitch up, and vice versa). Any explanation for this?
Well if what happened when Scott Manley's dad and bro tried to spaceplane is any indication, you MIGHT have flipped a control surface for forward sweep and it fucked the everything
ERHERM

Then I just dont understand. I mean, I've done it the same way on this plane as I have other planes and it works, but its just jacked up. I even removed a few parts then it worked fine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 27, 2015, 03:50:18 pm
try right clicking the surface in the hangar, set it to "inverted" if you need to... also helps if you don't have all parts set to all axis all the time. Yaw parts on yaw, roll parts on roll, pitch parts on pitch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Android on May 27, 2015, 04:18:12 pm
Quote from: sluissa on May 27, 2015, 03:50:18 pm
try right clicking the surface in the hangar, set it to "inverted" if you need to... also helps if you don't have all parts set to all axis all the time. Yaw parts on yaw, roll parts on roll, pitch parts on pitch.

Tried that, didn't do anything. And I do set the axis's on the parts appropriately too. Yes it is a weird issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 27, 2015, 04:45:00 pm
I always found that putting all surfaces to the "extended" position in the hangar usually helps...it allows you to see if any surfaces go opposite the rest...just turn it off when you are done
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vicomt on May 27, 2015, 04:50:12 pm
I'm actually quite proud of myself tonight. My first Minmus Mining Colony is now active :D

http://imgur.com/a/5P12h (http://imgur.com/a/5P12h)

can we even embed IMGUR galleries on this forum?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 27, 2015, 04:54:03 pm
Quote from: Android on May 27, 2015, 03:47:35 pm
Then I just dont understand. I mean, I've done it the same way on this plane as I have other planes and it works, but its just jacked up. I even removed a few parts then it worked fine.
That happened to me when I flipped an advanced canard around while attempting to make a 1.0 version of Macey Dean's Isprit VTOL. It behaved the opposite it should have until I flipped it back around. I'm not sure if it affects all control surfaces, but it is definitely a prevalent issue. Someone should do some tests and report it as a bug if it hasn't been already.

Also, I feel a bit sorry for Macey. He comes back after over a year of absence and then the 1.0 update immediately breaks two of his signature fighters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Android on May 27, 2015, 05:38:50 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 27, 2015, 04:54:03 pm
Quote from: Android on May 27, 2015, 03:47:35 pm
Then I just dont understand. I mean, I've done it the same way on this plane as I have other planes and it works, but its just jacked up. I even removed a few parts then it worked fine.
That happened to me when I flipped an advanced canard around while attempting to make a 1.0 version of Macey Dean's Isprit VTOL. It behaved the opposite it should have until I flipped it back around. I'm not sure if it affects all control surfaces, but it is definitely a prevalent issue. Someone should do some tests and report it as a bug if it hasn't been already.
Oh no, this is happening with ailerons on my wings. They are attached in the right direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 27, 2015, 06:08:37 pm
That I haven't seen. Mind posting a picture? Preferably with the center of mass indicator on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on May 28, 2015, 12:23:21 am
So...I had a mission to just fly by the Mun...so I made a little science craft to do so, stuffed Valentina in the craft and then sent her off.

Once at the Min I realized I had a lot of DV left and decided to head to Minmus. I managed to map it with the basic ScanSat altimetry radar. Lo and behold I still had a good amount of DV left and despite having rounded the Mun a few times I wasn't able to get into polar orbit because the DV cost was too high.

On the way from Minmus to the Mun I set myself up for polar orbit and scanned it as well...

Then things get messy. I had set myself up in a bad way and didn't have the DV to get back to Kerbin so the best I could do was set her up on a large orbit around Kerbin and have her await rescue.

I have no docking parts yet (almost have one unlocked) so the rescue craft is more or less made to meet her in orbit and push her until the craft is able to skim Kerbin atmosphere and just naturally slow down.

I am playing with TAC life support and I accidentally gave her what I thought was way to much in the way of supplies

Now I am happy I did because I also use Kerbal Construction Time so the rescue ship, and some research to make it happen is taking a little over a week to make while poor Valentina floats around helplessly.

I am having a lot of fun with it...and that ship has over 150 science on it so I really need to rescue it lol

On am unrelated note I am also finding the Dang It mod to be rather enjoyable...gives the engineer way more purpose and I am glad to have found put you can do inspections and preventative maintenance...so it's not just sitting and waiting for random failures. Rather you can plan and execute EVA based maintenance to prevent failure
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 28, 2015, 01:37:49 am
I'm getting an unusual bug, whenever I enter timewarp on the Launchpad my entire craft shifts slightly over towards the right.
I'm going to disable most of my mods to see if I can track the culprit.
EDIT: Huh, it seems a fresh install of 1.0.2 does this anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 28, 2015, 03:41:52 am
Well, yet another promising SSTLAB concept has been brought spiraling back to Earth Kerbin by the unyielding brutality of Newtonian physics. The Solitude Mk.2, while implementing several improvements over its predecessor, once again failed to balance the requirements of dV, TWR and flyability. Here it is in its final iteration:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For my final attempt I will return to my original plan of ion drives and rapiers. Nuclear thermal powered SSTLABs may be possible, but the precise balance required to create them is beyond me. This last attempt will need to be as minimalistic as possible to keep part count and ion burn time reasonable. Above all, I need to minimize the delta-V needed from the Rapier's rocket mode for the ascent into orbit. I'd like to see if I can get it down to 1000 m/s. If I can achieve that, everything else will be child's play.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on May 28, 2015, 11:34:57 pm
Quote from: etgfrog on May 26, 2015, 11:37:35 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 26, 2015, 12:43:55 pm
11 million kilometers, and my engineers were off by a crucial 0.5m or so.
Very tempted to nuke the whole base from orbit and start over.
My solution to that is install kerbal inventory system then kerbal attachment system, bring a screwdriver then reposition the docking port, then remove the mods as they seem to cause random lag spikes with it either loading or regenerating the inventory images every 10 seconds or so.

So, I did this. This is a thing I did.

The doing of the thing has not rectified my problem. I was able to realign the docking port, and use the last trace of RCS in the larger module to line them up but it STILL WON'T DOCK.  :'(

Stupid question -- do both crafts have to have electric power for the docking clamps to lock?


EDIT: AHA! Turns out I was the victim of a known bug that can result when quicksaving before a docking attempt and then reloading. The state of one of the ports got stuck in "Acquire" rather than "Ready". Manually edited the persistent.sfs and restarted the game and voila!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 29, 2015, 12:07:39 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 28, 2015, 01:37:49 am
I'm getting an unusual bug, whenever I enter timewarp on the Launchpad my entire craft shifts slightly over towards the right.
I'm going to disable most of my mods to see if I can track the culprit.
EDIT: Huh, it seems a fresh install of 1.0.2 does this anyway.

I've had a similar thing happening in vanilla ksp. As soon as I entered timewarp my plane would tip downwards slightly, which is quite annoying while trying to fly at a relatively straight altitude over a long period.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 29, 2015, 01:33:24 pm
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 29, 2015, 12:07:39 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 28, 2015, 01:37:49 am
I'm getting an unusual bug, whenever I enter timewarp on the Launchpad my entire craft shifts slightly over towards the right.
I'm going to disable most of my mods to see if I can track the culprit.
EDIT: Huh, it seems a fresh install of 1.0.2 does this anyway.

I've had a similar thing happening in vanilla ksp. As soon as I entered timewarp my plane would tip downwards slightly, which is quite annoying while trying to fly at a relatively straight altitude over a long period.

That is less a bug and more "How physical timewarp works"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 29, 2015, 01:40:15 pm
It accelerates the physics, yeah. That's why it always says not to use it with giant ships, because they tend to rip themselves apart at high t-warp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 29, 2015, 01:52:05 pm
Quote from: BFEL on May 29, 2015, 01:33:24 pm
Quote from: FArgHalfnr on May 29, 2015, 12:07:39 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 28, 2015, 01:37:49 am
I'm getting an unusual bug, whenever I enter timewarp on the Launchpad my entire craft shifts slightly over towards the right.
I'm going to disable most of my mods to see if I can track the culprit.
EDIT: Huh, it seems a fresh install of 1.0.2 does this anyway.

I've had a similar thing happening in vanilla ksp. As soon as I entered timewarp my plane would tip downwards slightly, which is quite annoying while trying to fly at a relatively straight altitude over a long period.

That is less a bug and more "How physical timewarp works"

I wasn't sure, so that's why I called it a 'thing' instead of a bug.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 29, 2015, 01:58:02 pm
The effect seems more severe in .90, interestingly launch clamps seem to be able to hold their position.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 29, 2015, 03:02:38 pm
Launch clamps are the closest KSP has to "static objects" I mean just watch the danny video where he accidentally shoots launch clamps through the planet and out the other side. They stay EXACTLY the same distance apart and everything through the entirety of Kerbin.

If the rest of your ship was as sturdy as launch clamps you could fire interstellar's warp drive at a planet and either bounce or COME OUT THE OTHER SIDE with zero damage from the entire atmosphere and lithosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 29, 2015, 05:24:45 pm
So my game is a science game, no mods.
I've bought the first four tiers of research, and some beyond. How is it that I'm unable to make it to orbit still?
Spoiler: First four tiers for reference (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The other techs I've researched (click to show/hide)

I'm certain that it's because I'm tacking on so much weight for science modules, but I'd just like to get some more thrust.
I have 83 science right now, not enough to buy anything else at the moment, but I'm sure after another launch I will be able to.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 05:31:43 pm
What exactly is the problem with getting to orbit? Not enough delta-V? What do your rockets look like?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 29, 2015, 06:17:55 pm
This one aaaaalmost got me to orbit today, but I misjudged something (I can't get the hang of those manuever nodes), and of course with no solar panels I ran out of electricity to do science with pretty fast; at least fast enough once I landed in the highlands.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It does contain a Mobile Processing Lab, which is way too heavy for the thrust I have now, I think, but if I could find a way to add more thrust...

Edit: Haven't added more thrust but I added solar panels (Brilliant, what use are those at night?), and the following is after the first stage has been removed:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Last Stage:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crud, I lost control of which direction it's pointing and now any burn is retrograde. I can't get it turned around, and it's falling.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 29, 2015, 07:42:59 pm
What is the overblown monstrosity? I expect monstrosities to get into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 29, 2015, 07:52:23 pm
I have no idea how heavy the Mobile Processing Lab is, but I do know two ways to increase your chances to get up there.

1. Asparagus Staging (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Asparagus_staging) increases delta-V by, in my experience, about 10-30%, which is very useful for getting to orbit.

2. Fins stabilize the craft and make it harder to flip over on its own, sort of like fletching on an arrow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 08:07:01 pm
1. Struts cause horrific amounts of drag. Avoid them (!!).
2. You do not need that many solid fuel boosters.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 29, 2015, 08:57:52 pm
Quote from: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 08:07:01 pm
1. Struts cause horrific amounts of drag. Avoid them (!!).
2. You do not need that many solid fuel boosters.
I was using them until I could research Fuel Ducts to use what TBPickle suggested.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 09:04:05 pm
No, I mean you don't even need them with all the science stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on May 29, 2015, 09:13:12 pm
Quote from: flabort on May 29, 2015, 08:57:52 pm
I was using them until I could research Fuel Ducts to use what TBPickle suggested.

If you don't have fuel ducts yet, you can do makeshift asparagus staging by making two asparagus sections and putting more fuel into one. It's less efficient than proper asparagus, but still more efficient than no asparagus at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 29, 2015, 09:18:12 pm
Thanks for the advice guys! :D Newest rocket I had Fuel Ducts, and finally made it to orbit.
Spoiler: Mere Moments Before Success (click to show/hide)

Also, in regards to the time warp discussion, I had tried making a probe earlier before my science lab produced enough science to research ducts. Of course it didn't do anything useful, but the stack of reaction wheels behaved interestingly when I put time-warp on.
Spoiler: Streeeeetch (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 09:31:56 pm
Oh wow you're going WAY too high there. You only need your apoapsis up to >70,000, y'know!

Also, you going west? East makes it so that you don't need to add Kerbin's rotation speed to your delta-v just to get to orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 29, 2015, 09:39:00 pm
Also, that maneuver node is pretty inefficient. In general you want to burn directly prograde/retrograde (yellow-green markers) at periapsis or apoapsis when raising or lowering your orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 29, 2015, 09:43:51 pm
Also, Im not positive that you are doing this or not, but when you reach the end of the light-blue section of the atmosphere its generally good to start tipping over to the west a bit. Let gravity help you with that initial orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 09:45:41 pm
You're supposed to do that right as you take off (https://youtu.be/_q_8TO4Ag0E?t=170), not as you reach the blue part. Also, east, not west.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 29, 2015, 09:49:01 pm
I meant east. Frickin brain...

Also, I find doing it as the atmos changes layers reduces chances for the ground to try touching you or the rocket from getting confused asto what end should point to space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on May 29, 2015, 10:06:39 pm
I have no idea what that means. :P

Anyways, thanks to this first orbit, I'm actually going to be able to encounter the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thanks again for all the advice!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 29, 2015, 10:18:43 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on May 29, 2015, 09:49:01 pm
I meant east. Frickin brain...

Also, I find doing it as the atmos changes layers reduces chances for the ground to try touching you or the rocket from getting confused asto what end should point to space.

Watch the whole video I posted, it explains pretty well why that happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: FArgHalfnr on May 29, 2015, 10:30:07 pm
Quote from: flabort on May 29, 2015, 10:06:39 pm
I have no idea what that means. :P

Anyways, thanks to this first orbit, I'm actually going to be able to encounter the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thanks again for all the advice!

So your first orbit accidentally takes you to the mun? Wow. That's actually pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on May 29, 2015, 10:30:55 pm
Putnam, I think I had, that or an earlier version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 30, 2015, 12:49:23 am
My quest for a single-stage-to-Laythe-and-back is nearing its conclusion. I just tested a 30T SSTO which could fly to orbit, land on Kerbin and almost make orbit again, all while carrying an ion engine, enough RTGs to power it and enough xenon for transfers to Jool and back. And it only failed to make the second orbit because I underestimated the amount of liquid fuel it needed. With Laythe's lower orbital velocity and the excess oxidizer removed, it should be just barely enough to complete the mission. I think I'm ready to stop messing around with testing and designs and just get on with it, so here goes nothing!

And here it is, ready for transfer. Aesthetically it's nothing special, but you can only do so much when working with such tight performance requirements. I only hope I haven't left it too little fuel for Laythe orbit. I would be very disappointed if I manage to get so far only to be stranded.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on May 30, 2015, 02:40:22 am
I'm surprised you managed an intercept on such an eccentric orbit.
Your apoapsis for orbit should rarely be over 120 km, after that you can just burn straight towards the the horizon, it's much more efficient.
You want to circularize ONLY on apoapsis and periapsis, until there's almost no difference anymore (I usually manage within 1 km)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 30, 2015, 03:49:24 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 30, 2015, 12:49:23 am
Aesthetically it's nothing special, but you can only do so much when working with such tight performance requirements.
Actually, I think it's pretty nice looking. I'm still haven't figured out how to SSTO in 1.2, so that makes your ship extra impressive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 30, 2015, 10:36:45 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on May 30, 2015, 03:49:24 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on May 30, 2015, 12:49:23 am
Aesthetically it's nothing special, but you can only do so much when working with such tight performance requirements.
Actually, I think it's pretty nice looking. I'm still haven't figured out how to SSTO in 1.2, so that makes your ship extra impressive.
Thanks. I didn't mean I thought it was ugly or anything. I just wanted it to have a bit more distinctive look, but it ended up kind of generic because of weight minimization.

I think I should do another launch and try to optimize my ascent a bit more. This one should have enough fuel, but I'd prefer a bit of a safety margin and it still has too much oxidizer.

For SSTO spaceplanes you really just have to keep in mind how jet engines work now. Instead of giving you a flat thrust, their thrust varies heavily based on speed and altitude. Once you break the sound barrier (340 m/s) your drag will decrease and thrust will rapidly increase, but it can be hard to break it if you don't have the TWR. Toggling your rockets on just for a moment to push you over can be helpful but obviously doesn't work with RAPIERs. Jet engines will only get you to a certain point before they stop producing thrust, so intake spam doesn't work anymore. This will generally be around 1000 m/s at 20km for turbo/ramjets and 1400m/s at 25km for RAPIERs. You can try to go faster by using lots of jets and building up speed lower in the atmosphere, but you run the risk of burning up. And finally, since the jets can't get you as fast as they could previously, you need more rocket fuel to get into orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 30, 2015, 11:05:54 am
Spoiler: Somehow got this thing into orbit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 30, 2015, 12:54:08 pm
I guess I'll be sending launch clamps down with my duna colony parts then, they seems great at keeping my modules from hopping all over the place.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 30, 2015, 07:00:42 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 30, 2015, 12:54:08 pm
I guess I'll be sending launch clamps down with my duna colony parts then, they seems great at keeping my modules from hopping all over the place.
Launch clamps cannot be launched. They are IMMOVABLE.


Except by danny.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 30, 2015, 07:03:56 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on May 30, 2015, 12:54:08 pm
I guess I'll be sending launch clamps down with my duna colony parts then, they seems great at keeping my modules from hopping all over the place.
Trust me when I say that will require very, very, very precise math.  You have to align the positions of Duna and Kerbin perfectly, so that once you destroy Kerbin the launch clamps fall precisely into Duna some months later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: etgfrog on May 30, 2015, 10:27:22 pm
This may sound a bit silly, but can you use an asteroid as an infinite source of fuel to go wherever you want?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 30, 2015, 11:12:43 pm
I think they may eventually run out of mass? I haven't tried, because I'm still waiting for 1.0.3 to break all my rockets and haven't researched that far yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 31, 2015, 12:08:46 am
Well it looks like the ion burn to get to Laythe is going to take over four hours rather than the one hour the maneuver node originally gave me *sigh*. Now I'll really be mad if I get there only to find out I don't have quite enough fuel to make orbit again. Efforts to optimize my ascent have failed to give me any more fuel than on the first try. The excess oxidizer will continue to bug me, but with a quarter of the transfer done, it's too late to turn back now.

Wait no, without being able to take advantage of the Oberth effect it's now 6 hours on top of all the time it took to achieve escape velocity. Uggh! This is why I don't use ion engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 31, 2015, 01:23:15 am
Oh I forgot to mention, launch clamps are 15,000 liters of KIS storage, and seem to work quite well for surface attachment with a wrench.
When you time warp the entire structure including the clamp moves east a few inches, then when you warp back the clamp pops back to it's initial position, and drags the craft with it.
This would require a craft that was structurally sound enough to survive the wrenching however, but I'm sure with enough clamps the effect would be distributed quite well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on May 31, 2015, 02:19:30 am
Well this looks like the end. Valentina has made a courageous effort, but her SSTO "The Last Straw" has burned through three quarters of its xenon and still needs about 1000 m/s of dV to make an encounter with Laythe. It'll get there, but I very much doubt it will be able to get back. I am almost certain it is possible, maybe even using this craft with some more optimal piloting, but as I said earlier, this is my final attempt for now. I can't take any more redesigns and multi-hour ion burns and I want to start using mods again.

I'll continue Valentina's mission to see how far she can get in case anyone wanted to try and beat me. I'll post some screenshots whenever she gets stranded.


Edit: Well the encounter was made, and she landed successfully.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, the liquidfuel ran out mere moments before getting back into orbit and the ion thruster wasn't quite powerful enough to make it on its own, not that it would be able to get anywhere anyway. Valentina is now stranded on a small island. Mission failed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Still, a tiny bit more liquid fuel, a bit more xenon, less oxidizer and a better transfer and it would have been perfect. The ship at launch was 33.3 tonnes if anyone wanted to know. It seems a shame to give up after getting so close, but I was getting pretty tired of this challenge and for now it's time to move on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on June 01, 2015, 12:28:45 pm
Spoiler: Things Kerbals were not meant to build (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 01, 2015, 12:40:34 pm
You arent using the GAU gun on the thunderbolt?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 02, 2015, 02:22:33 pm
Trying to replicate a Space Shuttle type transport for moving Kerbals to and from orbit. Failing spectacularly.

Two main problems:

1. I cannot get my orbiter to anchor to the main fuel tank. I have four hydaulic attachment manifolds arrayed along the bottom of the orbiter, perfectly lined up and even. Only the bottom one seems to make an attachment. This means as soon as I go to launch, the orbiter is trying to peel backwards and rip itself loose. Once I get airborne, it starts bobbing back and forth against the tank until it eventually penetrates it, with explosive results.

2. Lift. The orbiter has my whole launch system trying to a do a backflip as soon as it launches. I've steadily pared down the wing surface and tried to add a counterweight and/or counter-lifting surfaces to the backside of the tank, but with little effect.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 02, 2015, 02:57:43 pm
Dunno about 2, besides advising you to checkout what scott manly has to say about that subject, but for one, ditch all the manifolds, put one in the center, attack the tank there, and strut. Things only attach at one point without struts/magic. Yes, docking ports are magic. Struts are also magic, but they are strutmagic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on June 02, 2015, 04:45:31 pm
Redking, in KSP only struts can bridge gaps. Yeah, it's a bit of a problem. Struts do separate automatically though.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on June 02, 2015, 06:33:45 pm
A picture would help.

For #1 just use struts as everyone is saying

For #2 you don't need lift surfaces as much as you mood control surfaces. Wings might be extreme but if normal fins can't stop the tilting then wings could be an answer
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 02, 2015, 07:43:35 pm
Quote from: RedKing on June 02, 2015, 02:22:33 pm
2. Lift. The orbiter has my whole launch system trying to a do a backflip as soon as it launches. I've steadily pared down the wing surface and tried to add a counterweight and/or counter-lifting surfaces to the backside of the tank, but with little effect.
Give me a picture of your craft at launch please, and what mods if any you're using.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 02, 2015, 10:16:30 pm
The space shuttle does this, asymmetric thrust from the placement of the Space Shuttle Main Engines in relation to the much more powerful solid boosters, asymmetric center if mass from the detachable fuel tank, asymmetric lift from the orbiter, boosters and tank.
The shuttle uses this to perform it's gravity turn immediately as it takes off from the pad, belly up it heads west, I suggest rotating your vehicle so that it backflips west as you want, apart from that you need good control surfaces to retain control, and you can always tweak the boosters thrust to help get less flip and more control.
Also Scott Manley covered this, if you're making a shuttle I suggest watching that video.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Baffler on June 02, 2015, 10:27:50 pm
So I'm pretty new to this game, and even though it isn't all that objectively impressive it still made me happy. I managed to launch a probe and get it into an eccentric orbit around the Mun (to get data from close to and high above the Mun) with a secondary component to launch at the surface to gather and transmit data from the ground. Everything went off without a hitch while it was still in space, but the lander wasn't as stable as I'd hoped and it ended up crashing into the surface upside down. The probe had heavy landing legs to absorb an impact at speed, but the top of it did not. But I still have the orbiter, and luckily this was an unmanned mission, hehe.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 02, 2015, 10:43:47 pm
Be careful when adding Remote Tech to an existing save. Actually, don't do it. Craft will disappear. I don't feel like starting from scratch at the moment and I'm so glad I copy and label saves before adding big mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on June 03, 2015, 11:22:24 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on June 01, 2015, 12:40:34 pm
You arent using the GAU gun on the thunderbolt?

Can't aim it; it's on a fixed mount.

Spoiler: Meanwhile, more things Kerbals should never build (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 03, 2015, 11:33:57 am
Can't aim it...:
You don't need to aim the GAU, it's MOAR DAKKA.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on June 03, 2015, 12:46:25 pm
Why would you blow up a perfectly good space dildo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 03, 2015, 01:11:55 pm
The best way to go and test SAM systems is:
1. Build the sam
2. move the sam somewhere
3. build the target
4. fly the target a fair ways out
5. turn target arround, label it hostile, autopilot on
5.5(optional) return to sam vehicle
6. watch carnage
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on June 04, 2015, 08:25:54 am
So this is now a thing apparently:
https://www.gamersedition.com/product/kerbal-space-program?utm_source=steam&utm_medium=mention&utm_campaign=gamersedition-ksp
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 08:36:46 am
Quote from: Krevsin on June 04, 2015, 08:25:54 am
So this is now a thing apparently:
https://www.gamersedition.com/product/kerbal-space-program?utm_source=steam&utm_medium=mention&utm_campaign=gamersedition-ksp
I don't know what to think about this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:37:38 am
Where is Val? :(
*Kerbal privilege intensifies*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 08:38:25 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:37:38 am
Where is Val? :(
*Kerbal privilege intensifies*
This was probably planned and printed before Val was a thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:41:20 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 08:38:25 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:37:38 am
Where is Val? :(
*Kerbal privilege intensifies*
This was probably planned and printed before Val was a thing.
No, obviously in order to succeed in the male dominated space program Val needed to pose as a "standard kerbalnaught"  until she had proven herself to be just as capable as her peers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 08:45:54 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:41:20 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 08:38:25 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 04, 2015, 08:37:38 am
Where is Val? :(
*Kerbal privilege intensifies*
This was probably planned and printed before Val was a thing.
No, obviously in order to succeed in the male dominated space program Val needed to pose as a "standard kerbalnaught"  until she had proven herself to be just as capable as her peers.
This amused me, because I've just finished reading Pratchett's Monstrous Regiment which had the same (albeit exaggerated as all of his stories are) plot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 04, 2015, 11:36:12 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
major spoils
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:38:45 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 04, 2015, 11:36:12 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
major spoils
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yep. Great book, would recommend. I'm on Going Postal now.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on June 04, 2015, 12:37:18 pm
Pratchet's books are works of art.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 04, 2015, 01:10:02 pm
Spoiler: So there was this mission (click to show/hide)
Yep, those are 459000 Kerbucks for something that simple.
Spoiler: I did it with this ship (click to show/hide)
Total cost 7428 Kermonies, and I even got some of it back after reentring without a heat shield and successfully landing in the desert at night without a parachute.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on June 04, 2015, 02:15:00 pm
Man...all my 400k contracts are like..."create a space station with these 5 parts"  or some multi flight BS lol
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on June 04, 2015, 03:23:13 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 07:39:31 pm
Quote from: Culise on June 04, 2015, 03:23:13 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 04, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 04, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ah yes. Quite. Blouse wasn't it? Good stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 05, 2015, 01:01:56 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on June 04, 2015, 01:10:02 pm
Spoiler: So there was this mission (click to show/hide)
Yep, those are 459000 Kerbucks for something that simple.
Spoiler: I did it with this ship (click to show/hide)
Total cost 7428 Kermonies, and I even got some of it back after reentring without a heat shield and successfully landing in the desert at night without a parachute.

I got a Mun 3 Challenge that required flyby's of Mun, Minmus, and Duna. Later I got one that was Mun, Minmus, and Ike. I THINK I CAN DO THIS.
/feelslikecheating
/makes1.4mil
/builtandlaunchedfromminmus
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 05, 2015, 08:28:38 pm
I can't wait for the Realism Overhaul mod compilation to get updated, but I'm worried it'll just constantly be running up against the memory limit. Even with the relatively tame set of mods I have now I'm constantly crashing. That's mostly because one of them probably has a memory leak, but even so, RAM seems much more limited than in previous versions.

I'm going to try out the community x64 hack to see if it's workable. The method is detailed here if anyone else wanted to try it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117224-Windows-64-bit-community-workaround

Edit: So it seems to be working except for one thing. FAR still automatically disables itself on Win_64 installs despite there no longer being an official version. Except it doesn't reinstate the stock aerodynamic model so there are just no aerodynamics at all. Anyone know how to stop it doing that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 05, 2015, 10:38:16 pm
Have you tried OpenGL mode ?
It halved my ram use allowing me to install clouds and distant object enhancement. It came at a slight cost, text looks slightly different in the VAB, slightly blurry.
I might need to disable the graphics more though, even with my GPU under clocked as much as possible with MSI afterburner my laptop is overheating,even at the space center it's running at 100% for no apparent reason.
I've also been getting crashes when going to the space center after craft loss, looking at the log it might be AMPyear or science alert.
Or possibly alarm clock?
Hell the log is Brobdingnagian, 4 mb just after launching.
In other news :
                      day 213: Jedmon Kermin refuses to pilot another mission, something about being an engineer and not a trained monkey. While rumours persist of a team of orange suited kerbals who are experimenting with aerospace, none of these veterans have made themself available, yet a brave, possibly stupid, recruit named Glecine Kemin has volunteered to test the mk1 pod and cabin.
Soon we shall recruit a scientist to round out the team. Funds are at 73k, we have 19 science and in 11 days will unlock survivability, soon we shall start work on the last node of tier 2. Glecine has a crazy notion about taking tourists on sub orbital hops, which is absurd considering we've only sent unmanned solid fuelled rockets out of the atmosphere. That 18 km altitude record has gone to her head.

Edit: turning off open gl mode fixed the high GPU problem, but I can't fit clouds into ram now :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on June 05, 2015, 11:16:50 pm
Solid-fuel suborbital tourist rockets are the best suborbital tourist rockets:

Spoiler: I wonder why I'm not getting any more contracts for suborbital tourist flights? (click to show/hide)

Despite its name, it's never killed anyone yet, as I haven't missed that narrow window between when it's going slow enough that the parachutes won't rip off and when it's a smear across the ground.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 05, 2015, 11:42:13 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 05, 2015, 10:38:16 pm
Have you tried OpenGL mode ?
Forgot about that. I should probably try it sometime, it would likely invite fewer problems than x64. Still, 64-bit seems mostly okay. It was running comfortably at 5+ GB of RAM, enough that it was actually close to the limit for my old-ish desktop PC. There were a few bugs, but it's hard to tell which were caused by the hack and which were caused by haphazardly installing all the memory-intensive mods I could find. I'll just say that Unity 5 and a stable 64-bit version can't come soon enough.

As for getting FAR to cooperate, it seems I'll have to go into the code, remove whatever's disabling it and recompile it. I just can't seem to find where it get's disabled. The only place I've found where it checks for the win64 version is just a warning text telling you it's unstable. Oh well, I'll have to look into it more later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 06, 2015, 02:22:39 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on June 05, 2015, 11:42:13 pm
As for getting FAR to cooperate, it seems I'll have to go into the code, remove whatever's disabling it and recompile it. I just can't seem to find where it get's disabled. The only place I've found where it checks for the win64 version is just a warning text telling you it's unstable. Oh well, I'll have to look into it more later.

Here's (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99485-General-tutorial-for-removing-WIN64-KSP-Denial-of-access-code-from-mods?highlight=mods+win64) a pre .90 tutorial that might have some decent hints for that; good luck!

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 06, 2015, 02:37:15 am
I now have a science lab in permament orbit. I tried to get to the mun to gather more data and science, but ran out of fuel (not enough tanks on that asparagus). I did almost max out the science/day, though, so it's not a total loss. It would  have been better if I had been able to get to the mun, though, to collect more science and add data to the Scilab when it eventually gets low.

I also realized that Jebadiah will be passing near Kerbin soon. I'd like to rescue him (and collect that "Orbit around the sun" science), but there's no docking ports on his ship and I've never run a rescue mission before. Advice?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rakonas on June 06, 2015, 03:14:37 am
Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 02:37:15 am
I now have a science lab in permament orbit. I tried to get to the mun to gather more data and science, but ran out of fuel (not enough tanks on that asparagus). I did almost max out the science/day, though, so it's not a total loss. It would  have been better if I had been able to get to the mun, though, to collect more science and add data to the Scilab when it eventually gets low.

I also realized that Jebadiah will be passing near Kerbin soon. I'd like to rescue him (and collect that "Orbit around the sun" science), but there's no docking ports on his ship and I've never run a rescue mission before. Advice?
If you're rescuing a kerbal it's easy, just get within a km or two and have them EVA to your ship. Jetpack is much easier than closing that last bit of distance and maneuvering to dock.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 06, 2015, 06:38:14 am
Here's my münar space station.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The bottom left part is the core/habitation module, with a Hitchhiker, reserve tanks, and lots of batteries. The middle part has solar panels, orbital experiments and a large fuel tank. The bottom right part is a lab module, with, well, labs.

Note that it is currently useless and annoying to have multiple labs on a single space station, because when you try to analyze an experiment in the second lab after analyzing it in the first lab, the "Process in lab module" button still appears (because there's a lab which can accept the experiment), but when you click the button, it's always sent to the first lab, which then rejects the experiment.

As you can see, I'm in the process of refurbishing the station. I have 31 experiments, altogether worth about 1500 data, stored in the cupola at the bottom, and instead of sending the lander down for another round of experiments, I just sent up a new lab module (attached to the top, with the transfer stage still attached), moved all my Kerbals out of the old labs into the new labs and the Hitchhiker, redocked the lander, and am about to jettison the old lab module and that transfer stage. Now I should be able to max out my tech tree just by waiting for my scientists to research the experiments I already have, then I can go 100% patents licensing and get free money whenever.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 06, 2015, 08:03:08 am
Due to an accident while jumping from a slightly too high lander, Valentina fell through the ground, accelerated to light speed, and was eaten by the sun, she will be missed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 06, 2015, 11:58:47 am
Here's my Munar space station and tractor.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next up, crew!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 06, 2015, 01:55:54 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on June 06, 2015, 03:14:37 am
Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 02:37:15 am
I now have a science lab in permament orbit. I tried to get to the mun to gather more data and science, but ran out of fuel (not enough tanks on that asparagus). I did almost max out the science/day, though, so it's not a total loss. It would  have been better if I had been able to get to the mun, though, to collect more science and add data to the Scilab when it eventually gets low.

I also realized that Jebadiah will be passing near Kerbin soon. I'd like to rescue him (and collect that "Orbit around the sun" science), but there's no docking ports on his ship and I've never run a rescue mission before. Advice?
If you're rescuing a kerbal it's easy, just get within a km or two and have them EVA to your ship. Jetpack is much easier than closing that last bit of distance and maneuvering to dock.
The science on the ship itself is valuable. Almost 300 points of science, all of which would be cut by a third if I just transmitted it. I'm not sure what would happen if I had jeb remove the experiments from the ship and store them in a command module; if it works, of course I can just do rescue by EVA. But if it doesn't I'll have to wait another 50 days for the chance to rescue him again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 06, 2015, 02:52:40 pm
Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 01:55:54 pm
Quote from: Rakonas on June 06, 2015, 03:14:37 am
Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 02:37:15 am
I now have a science lab in permament orbit. I tried to get to the mun to gather more data and science, but ran out of fuel (not enough tanks on that asparagus). I did almost max out the science/day, though, so it's not a total loss. It would  have been better if I had been able to get to the mun, though, to collect more science and add data to the Scilab when it eventually gets low.

I also realized that Jebadiah will be passing near Kerbin soon. I'd like to rescue him (and collect that "Orbit around the sun" science), but there's no docking ports on his ship and I've never run a rescue mission before. Advice?
If you're rescuing a kerbal it's easy, just get within a km or two and have them EVA to your ship. Jetpack is much easier than closing that last bit of distance and maneuvering to dock.
The science on the ship itself is valuable. Almost 300 points of science, all of which would be cut by a third if I just transmitted it. I'm not sure what would happen if I had jeb remove the experiments from the ship and store them in a command module; if it works, of course I can just do rescue by EVA. But if it doesn't I'll have to wait another 50 days for the chance to rescue him again.
Jeb should be able to take all that science with him. You'll only lose out on "returning a ship from orbit of the sun" science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jocan2003 on June 06, 2015, 03:10:50 pm
I believe a sun orbit can be quite lucrative ship return wise.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on June 06, 2015, 04:12:51 pm
Ugh. I could have planned this better. I built a station in orbit of Minmus to refine Karbonite for fuel for outgoing ships. The station is fine, but the mining drone is garbage. It has four monoprop engines, a single large tank of fuel, and a single Karbonite tank whose description reads 1250 capacity when it's 7250 or so. I also have no way of scanning properly, and when the Karbonite tank is even half full it's too heavy to get back up to the station. And I don't know the exact conversion rate for fuel, so I don't even know if it'd be really effective.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 06, 2015, 06:02:20 pm
So I guess it's settled. If I can get close enough to Jeb, he'll EVA, grab all the science, and get on the ship.

Meanwhile, I want to get a monstrousity into the air, and I want to know: am I doing asparagus staging correctly?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Apparently not. One rocket on the furtherest branch close to the center failed to ignite, and so there was still fuel in that wing whenever I detached. The result was catastrophic, as the wing folded in on the rocket and blew it to pieces.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on June 06, 2015, 06:04:00 pm
yes

yes you are doing it correctly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 06:13:45 pm
are you trying to get to alpha centauri Bb
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 06, 2015, 06:15:59 pm
Methinks the new aerodynamics will have something to say about that. What exactly is the payload that requires you to make a Galactic Spiral out of rockets?


I've managed to get FAR working with Win64 KSP, along with the Real Solar System beta release and a few other mods. So far, everything is working as expected with no major issues. Thanks for the link to that tutorial, it saved me some time and frustration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 06, 2015, 06:18:59 pm
Quote from: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 06:13:45 pm
are you trying to get to alpha centauri Bb
Trying to:
A) Rescue Jeb
b) get into a stable orbit around some planet without using my entire fuel supply so I can do science
C) when the science supply runs out, return to Kerbin safely.

It didn't help that the ship blew up before leaving Kerbin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 06:19:31 pm
you really do not need that much fuel
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on June 06, 2015, 08:13:24 pm
I've been working on an ISRU vehicle. So far, I've learned:
Spoiler: Irla, Laenna and Doncal didn't call Blue Stakes (click to show/hide)

The motivation is that my (sandbox) munar space station has been growing out of control
Spoiler: since we're sharing pictures: (click to show/hide)
as ships limp to it on the dregs of their RCS propellant. Until the orange-tanker arrived, only one of the ships attached had any fuel. Admittedly, this is my fault for launching things on stacks meant to visit things in low Kerbin orbit, then changing my mind and going to the moon instead.

Edit: I learned another lesson:
Spoiler: Speed was a factor in this accident (click to show/hide)

Edit 2: After some redesigning, it was able to go up-slope at speed without another accident, but during downslope testing it caught air, hit the ground and exploded. This is still better than the much larger Mk I rover, which hasn't yet made it onto the ground in one piece, and I'm prepared to admit that driving a large vehicle off a ledge at 50 MPH is not a reasonable thing to do outside of Kerbal Monster Truck Rally.


Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 06:02:20 pm
am I doing asparagus staging correctly?

That is beautiful.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 06, 2015, 10:42:09 pm
Quote from: flabort on June 06, 2015, 06:02:20 pm
Meanwhile, I want to get a monstrousity into the air, and I want to know: am I doing asparagus staging correctly?
If you want to get a monstrosity into the air then yes, you are definitely doing it correctly.
If you want to efficiently get a significant payload into orbit then you could do better :/
Radially attached boosters increase drag significantly, it's more efficient to add inline until you reach a point where it either gets wobbly, or can't take off under it's own power. Then use a few radial boosters to increase thrust to weight for liftoff, by the time your boosters run out the vehicle should be light enough to run off it's primary engine(s).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on June 07, 2015, 03:39:52 am
So I was bored and listening to podcasts and I decided to build a house using KIS. Here's the results.

Spoiler: House made from a kit (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 07, 2015, 12:22:05 pm
I threw a probe lander on my Mun station, and then needed a fuel supply for it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I got this to the Mun asap before I 'needed' any more expansions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on June 08, 2015, 10:41:34 am
Big images should be spoilered at the least.


Jeb is missing. I don't know what happened. I closed the game with a rocket on the launch pad so I could launch the next time I played. It wasn't there when I loaded the game up, and Jeb is listed as MIA in the Astronaut Complex.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 08, 2015, 01:11:08 pm
Edit your save file. Just search for any kerbonaut that's employed still and compare their raws to Jeb's. I forget exactly what you're looking for and am not in front of my gaming machine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 08, 2015, 01:44:21 pm
Speaking of lost kerbals, one of mine was just eaten by Australia. Nezy Kerman and Jeb had just de-orbited after recreating the Gemini-Agena Target Vehicle docking. I was aiming for the Pacific but didn't bother to check where they would actually land and they ended up coming down over Western Australia. Nezy went EVA whereupon she was immediately swallowed up by the dusty earth as if the subcontinent itself were some kind of carnivorous entity. Jeb went out after her and managed to set foot on Australia and live to tell the tale because he's a BadS. Totally not because I still had time warp on when they landed and only turned it off after Nezy died, nope.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on June 09, 2015, 12:22:55 am
Quote from: Akura on June 08, 2015, 10:41:34 am
Jeb is missing. I don't know what happened. I closed the game with a rocket on the launch pad so I could launch the next time I played. It wasn't there when I loaded the game up, and Jeb is listed as MIA in the Astronaut Complex.

Yesterday Valentina EVA'd inside the moon when she softly dropped from the stairs. I hit warp and she fell below the ground. Then I quickloaded and she was still dead and MIA, even without autosaving/quicksaving.
Restarted the game and everything was fine. So there's definitely some really weird bugs.
I'm happy though, that nowadays I'm using quicksave/quickload to not die to bugs 70% of the time. The last 30% no one should know about.  :P
-

Shameless plug here, but since I don't really run a youtube channel (only post things when I really want to record/edit) maybe it's fine:
I had an idea for a KSP video but haven't recorded or edited in a long while, so I decided to go with something "simple" (in-game) to warm up and relearn stuff.
Turns out even simple things can take a loong time to record/edit/render/publish in this game.
If you find it in you to watch it, feel free to criticize. I tried to keep the video short as hard as I could, but maybe I shouldn't..since I was trying to make a more 'atmospheric' video.
I'm posting here because I know exactly ZERO people who play KSP.  ::)

Here's the link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQvz-pNQf9Q)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on June 09, 2015, 07:29:03 am
So, last night right before bed, I went from unmodded KSP to:
KAS
KIS
Joint Reinforcment
KW Rocketry
New Horizons
Kerbal Engineer
Chatterrer
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Kerbal Construction Time

I'm looking forward to giving this a shot tonight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 09, 2015, 07:43:34 am
you might want to get contract packs for some of those mods. are you using ckan? they are easier to find that way
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on June 09, 2015, 08:09:13 am
I had no idea what ckan was until like, five minutes ago... That seems a lot easier ha.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 09, 2015, 08:58:42 am
I had issues that only 64 bit KSP can resolve, Seems stable enough, time to break things by installing MOAR mods.
Edit: It feels weird using 6gb of ram, but it's more stable now. I had a few bugs on the first load after crashing a shuttle, but theres been nothing like a few hours later.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 09, 2015, 05:26:38 pm
So I've completed a few probe missions to the Moon vaguely following the Luna program and now it's time for a manned mission. I've put together a prototype lander that should be able to get the job done:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's based on the Soviet LK lander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK_%28spacecraft%29), mostly just because I have the Antares LK crew capsule unlocked but not the FASA LM. Ironically it will launch from Cape Canaveral and probably use the Apollo Command Module.

It has more than enough delta-V for the landing and ascent but I doubt I'll be able to fit a rover or anything else on it without a major redesign. It's already pretty heavy as is; and considering how kerbal rockets under-perform compared to their real-world counterparts, the one I'll need to launch this mission is going to be even bigger than a Saturn V.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on June 09, 2015, 06:43:02 pm
That looks cool! Real life based ships always makes my eye shine. Also, I think I saw this screenshot/design somewhere. Did KSP feature it somewhere? I follow their facebook page (which always makes me want to play the game), so maybe it was there.
I might be COMPLETELY wrong though..


I've been planning to get a basic mining outpost on the Mun (Minmus will be where I put serious mining and stations later on).
Do you guys do the ore refining in orbit? Is it too much work having a mining outpost/space station?
I'm planning to drop a modular base, each module having wheels (storage/mining/refining, maybe a power plant), and a truck that will go EuroTruck Simulator on the drop zone, and probably have a Skycrane thingy nearby too.

I'm trying to do a whole Career mode playthrough using minimal mods (currently only Kerbal Engineer, Kerbal Alarm Clock and SCANsat because I love maps and satellites so much), so I wonder if it gets "too much" without some sort of automation/autopilot.

I'm not too good at the game (I can do pretty much everything, but I don't feel like I do it optimally, and I do a lot of trial and error with designs), so I take it intentionally slow with science advancement so I can familiarize myself before going too crazy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 09, 2015, 07:41:27 pm
Quote from: Gabeux on June 09, 2015, 06:43:02 pm
Also, I think I saw this screenshot/design somewhere. Did KSP feature it somewhere? I follow their facebook page (which always makes me want to play the game), so maybe it was there.
I might be COMPLETELY wrong though..
Thanks! The capsule and a few other parts are from the Tantares mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/81537-1-0-2-Tantares-Stockalike-Soyuz-and-MIR-28-2-03-06-2015-Black-Arrow-Dev!) which has parts dedicated to recreating Soviet/Russian spacecraft. You could use those parts to create a pretty accurate scale replica of the LK. I had to take some liberties with my version since I was restricted by the parts I had unlocked and the extra fuel necessary to get stock-balanced craft working with Real Solar System. It's kind of midway between the Soviet LK and the Apollo LM.


And speaking of performance requirements in RSS, the service module on this thing is going to be absolutely massive. Even with just a minimalistic command module it's still has to either be a multistage deal or mass something around 200 tonnes. This rocket is going to be ridiculous. I wish RO would hurry and update so I could get realistic rocket performance.

Edit: Actually no, not that big. I was including the delta-V for a Translunar injection when that should really be handled by the uppermost stage on the rocket rather than the service module. That will knock off about 3000 m/s and a lot of the mass but it will still need to be pretty massive.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 10, 2015, 11:28:32 am
USI exploration parts are quite small and allow some really cute designs, however Henvis Kerman thought they could be made smaller, Taking the Micro Ducted fan from USI:E and reducing it in size by a third we have the Nanofan producing a whopping 3 thrust! And then it's baby brother the Pictofan with half the power again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Henvis Kerman looking like a boss on his shiny new airbike.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Handles very well, top speed approximately 70 m/s
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Coming in for a landing on the VAB helipads, we see the fans RCS thrusters at work.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
He checks the mechanical and electrical systems.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The 5 and a half minute flight has used .18 fuel out of the tank of 9, giving approximately 4.5 hours of flight time (Probably not, we also used quite a bit of battery power) He checks the fuel cell, working at 30% which is the most it can do being a 1/3 rescaled cell, worryingly the landing has drained the batteries by 50% with the added RCS thrust, the next revision shall have a more powerful fuel cell and carry less unneeded fuel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2015, 11:30:50 am
That's adorable. Did you scale the thrust down appropriately when you miniaturized the fans? I'm kind of surprised that they worked so well.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 10, 2015, 11:46:28 am
That's pretty cool. Airbikes are cool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 10, 2015, 11:54:21 am
Yeah, the USI Microfan produces 15 thrust, mine make 3 and 1.5 respectively, they have the same thrust to weight as the ant which has 2 thrust. In comparison a basic jet engine weighs as much as a LV-30 and produces the same thrust.
However I'm certain they are unbalanced in regards to fuel use, they're proportional to the USI Microfan, but it's values must be wrong too.
The ant uses 0.058 fuel a second,If it made 3 thrust it would use 0.087, the Nano uses .4 electric charge a second. The fuel cell requires ..... .00169 fuel a second for 1.5 electricity. That's .00045 fuel a second....
It uses 0.5% as much fuel as a liquid rocket engine.
Now we compare a jet engines 19200 isp to the ant's 315 isp and find the jet is 60 times more efficient. Or uses 1.6% as much fuel. So right there it needs to use 3 times as much fuel, but when we consider how much more efficient jet engines are to electric motors......
EDIT: a KSP Basic jet engine is twice as fuel efficient as a modern very high tech high bypass jet engine
EDIT: I'll probably just make fuel cells use more fuel :p
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2015, 11:55:50 am
Eh, at some point you have to make concessions for fun because in reality airbikes are not a real thing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 10, 2015, 02:24:12 pm
They're not?

I'm pretty sure they are.  I played a lot of Aces of the Pacific as a kid, and fondly remember dive bombing runs using the air brakes on a Lockheed P-38J.

Also:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_%28aeronautics%29
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 10, 2015, 02:28:14 pm
Whoops, TOTALLY misread that.

You meant that this isnt a real thing:  http://www.hover-bike.com/MA/

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2015, 02:29:32 pm
Quote from: puke on June 10, 2015, 02:24:12 pm
They're not?

I'm pretty sure they are.  I played a lot of Aces of the Pacific as a kid, and fondly remember dive bombing runs using the air brakes on a Lockheed P-38J.

Also:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_%28aeronautics%29
BIKES. Airbikes. Airbrakes are absolutely real. :P

Quote from: puke on June 10, 2015, 02:28:14 pm
Whoops, TOTALLY misread that.

You meant that this isnt a real thing:  http://www.hover-bike.com/MA/


Yes. We don't currently have airbikes that can fly around with the sort of freedom and efficiency as marc's marvelous creation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 10, 2015, 03:11:59 pm
Oh, I didn't mean that the MA Hoverbike thing was real.  It has never flown untethered, as far as I know.  No, I'm in total agreement with you, we dont have real ones of those yet.

Maybe not ever.  The real problem with personal VTOLs is not an engineering problem, but practicality.  They are hard to regulate and insure in such a way as to make them generally accessible, and even if you /could/ there is the problem of Thrust.  They just kick up too much shit on takeoff and landing that you couldn't use them in a populated area without throwing dirt and rocks into peoples eyes.

Marc's thing is pretty cool, though.  Reminds me of this little gizzy: 

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/7/screenshot75d.png) (http://imageshack.com/f/07screenshot75dp)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 03:42:16 pm
Did anyone ask for a Mobile Phone Recharger?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No? Okay :(

This is so stupid. I'll wait until I unlock MK2 Batteries - my other trucks are using same size/position docking ports and I don't really need that capacitor right now.
Will be my first mining base. I'm excited  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 10, 2015, 10:06:28 pm
I've completed my RSS Moonshot launch vehicle and, as expected, it's pretty ridiculous. Presenting the Kronos LXIII:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's taller than a Saturn V and more than twice as massive. The first stage is made up of 63 Aerojet M-1 engines (sadly not nearly as powerful as the real version) hence the name. Each launch costs over 4 million kerbucks. I made this scale so you can get some idea of just how enormous it is:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So far I've done 9 "official" missions in what I've dubbed the Artemis program, vaguely following the Apollo program. Totally by accident the crew of Artemis 1 died while testing the launch escape system and finding out the parachutes were insufficient for land use, but I reverted. Artemis 5 was the first using a completed spacecraft with the smaller Kronos XLV launcher, but it and 6 were attacked by launch clamps during ascent so I had to switch to letting it rest on the engines. This lead to Artemis 7 crushing the launchpad and exploding. The launch escape system was used but it sent the pod into a spin and the parachutes couldn't be deployed in time, this one I didn't revert. After that I experimented with a lot of different configurations before just turning on indestructible facilities. 8 was the first to make it to space, 9 did a flyby of the moon and now 10 is in a parking orbit, awaiting its translunar injection and the landing dress rehearsal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 11:08:12 pm
That thing, sir, looks scary. And awesome.  :P


I just FINALLY landed a module from my "MIRSU" base (Modular IRSU), after the worst possible flying I've ever done in my KSP-career.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was a beautiful landing..after multiple deaths and a whole rollback because a real bad bug happened in which I could do anything and my ship would explode completely. The Klaw bugged out and became a bomb, thinking it was inside another ship. The rollback enabled me to fix a lot of crap, and drop my crappy Skycrane design and simply use jets on the base-module trucks. Gotta love Drop Shits. Drop Ships!!
Also, Fraps crashed at the EXACT moment I landed. This is not my day.

What's funny is that it took a long time to land one module..and I have another one in orbit and probably 3-5 more to launch from Kerbin. I better get gud.
I'm also going bankrupt just because I always wanted a mining base.

EDIT:
Nom nom nom.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bringing Fuel Cell Generator and Storage next!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 11, 2015, 07:12:55 am
I made the ultimate KSP craft: A moon lander that has an integrated science lab, all the experiments, orbital survey scanner, mining drill and ISRU converter.
Spoiler: Landed on the moon (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Same flight, landed on Minmus this time (click to show/hide)
This thing has 4760 delta-v when both the fuel tanks and the ore tanks are filled. I can go from Moho to Eeloo and back with this, with pit stops at Gilly, Minmus, Ike, Dres and Pol.

Edit:
Spoiler: I'm on a Gilly (click to show/hide)
Edit2:
Spoiler: @Ike (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Down to Duna (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Back to Ike! (click to show/hide)
Edit3:
Spoiler: Dres (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bop (click to show/hide)
Now I need to timewarp for 30 years or such to get to Eeloo ;_;
Edit4:
Spoiler: Look Kerma, I'm on Eeloo! (click to show/hide)
I did it! I brought three Kerbals to Eeloo, and I can bring them back again. And I didn't even need ion engines or NERVAs!
Edit5:
Spoiler: Got to Moho too (click to show/hide)
That landing was nerve-wracking though. Look at that fuel gauge, another 0.1 seconds of thrust and my fuel would have run out. Didn't actually expect to make that landing, given how bumpy Moho is.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 12, 2015, 12:09:14 am
I've made a pretty big discovery. "Physicsless" parts now have a mass! The CoM still doesn't move when they are placed, so they must apply their mass in some special way to avoid making more physics calculations. This explains why Mechjeb kept giving me lower dV values in flight than in the VAB, it discounts the physicsless mass in the VAB but not in flight. Gone are the days of limitless TWR RCS engines and infinite electricity.

I'm actually kind of happy about this. I never really abused physicsless parts too much, and now I can stop worrying about "needlessly" adding mass when using batteries other than the Z-100. Although, I'm not too excited about struts having mass.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 12, 2015, 12:23:14 am
I'm making an assumption that it simply adds the mass of physicsless parts to the existing center of gravity.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 12, 2015, 12:31:44 am
That's what I would think, but it wouldn't work for craft made of only physicsless parts, so I don't know.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 12, 2015, 12:58:24 am
As Scott Manley demonstrated, craft made entirely of physicsless parts don't really work at all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 12, 2015, 01:06:49 am
They do now, I made one in 1.00 to test how they were affected by the aerodynamics. They just can't be the starting part so you have to decouple them. That's what first made me suspect they had mass since it actually accelerated realistically except for not having any drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2015, 07:25:59 am
physics-less parts add their mass to the parent part they're attached to
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 12, 2015, 07:59:07 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2015, 07:25:59 am
physics-less parts add their mass to the parent part they're attached to
Yes, you are right. The CoM indicator just doesn't move in the VAB which is very unintuitive. I guess most of the physicsless parts are so small it wouldn't make much difference, but it should still be fixed.

As for the special case of a craft composed entirely of physicsless parts, it seems the game will actually calculate a proper centre of mass for it. The individual parts all act as a rigid single unit. However, I noticed that my test rig made of physicsless parts produced much more lag than a craft with the equivalent number of normal parts would. With less than 200 parts my game was stuttering along as if there were 1000. My guess is that it was due to me using a lot of the large dish antennas. Their models are probably a lot more complex than, say, a fuel tank, which resulted in the lag.

Also, I was wrong about not being able to use any physicsless parts as the first part, you can with several.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 13, 2015, 03:06:46 am
Was going to update on my mission to rescue Jeb from eternal sun orbit, but got distracted by forsaken's avatar again.

Erg. Every time I see it I have to stare and watch for a good 5 minutes. such a cool avatar

OK, think Flabort, what were you going to say?

Oh, yeah, got two more ships stranded in lopsided orbits around the home planet. I'm starting to suspect that maybe I shouldn't double up on the purpose of each ship I make and just make one with no science parts at all to rescue him. Just a cockpit, some stabilizers and a small battery/solar panels for RCS use, and get-to-space-stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 13, 2015, 07:23:31 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on June 12, 2015, 12:23:14 am
I'm making an assumption that it simply adds the mass of physicsless parts to the existing center of gravity.

it's added to the parent
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Physicsless_part

it has some funny bug if the part is not radial attached (i.e. it has a big yellow node) - see decouplers some version ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 13, 2015, 02:25:35 pm
Success! I've landed on the Moon! Next up is a space station, a moonbase and then, on to Mars!

Spoiler: Launching at Dusk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Looks more like a real rocket now (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Lander extraction (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Lunar capture (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Lander separation (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Coming in for a landing (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: One small step... (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Taking off again (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Leaving... for now (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Back home (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 14, 2015, 03:25:24 pm
I'm sure you guys already know of this, but I just realized that you can EVA off the moon into a relatively low orbit or a somewhat high ballistic trajectory to be maybe picked up by an orbiting ship or something.

I know it's kinda unfeasible but the idea of having a one way lander and then just jetpacking back to the main ship in orbit is too fun to not consider :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 14, 2015, 11:43:31 pm
NASA had plans for an emergency lunar escape device which was basically 2 guys in a chair wearing their Eva suits and some RCS on it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 16, 2015, 03:23:27 pm
For some reason part of my space station keeps exploding whenever I load it. I was able to dock with it once, but now every time I go to it the game thinks its lab is colliding with something and causes it to explode. The lab comes from the FASA pack but I don't think that makes any difference. The mission report says the lab "collided with Plane." Anyone have any idea of what's causing this and/or any way to stop it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 16, 2015, 03:29:34 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on June 16, 2015, 03:23:27 pm
The lab comes from the FASA pack but I don't think that makes any difference.

That could be the entire difference. Did any nodes change placement or size or did the hitbox change at all in some update? All those things can cause explosions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 16, 2015, 05:09:56 pm
No, I haven't updated it and it was last working earlier today. I would say the most likely culprits are RSS and KAS. I'll try fiddling with the orbit parameters, see if that does anything.

Edit: Changing the orbit stopped the station form exploding. It's probably a problem with RSS. The last time it exploded the log said it crashed into Jool.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 16, 2015, 05:17:10 pm
Do you use RemoteTech? Somewhere between that and KAS/KIS there can be explosions. Removing RT should fix things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 16, 2015, 05:21:54 pm
No RemoteTech. Also, see my edit.

Edit: Well it seemed fine, but after accelerating time a few days it started exploding again. It seems like the game just hates this design. There's a stable release of RSS up now so I'll try updating to it. If that doesn't work I'll just call it a loss and make a new station.

Doubledit: Nope, still broken. Actually, it seems more broken now. Oh well. I evacuated the crew and deorbited the station. It at least burned up fairly spectacularly.


Also, KSP on PS4 (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/125659-Devnote-Tuesday-A-big-announcement). Wat?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 17, 2015, 04:33:13 am
yeah nevermind the fecking crashbug that has been in the release for a month already
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 17, 2015, 06:34:26 am
I've been working on something.
(http://i.imgur.com/FDiUZzP.jpg)
There's still a few minor issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 17, 2015, 07:49:14 am
What?  Are those pusher plates?  Are you making an Orion?

Have you seen this one?  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 17, 2015, 08:16:27 am
Quote from: puke on June 17, 2015, 07:49:14 am
What?  Are those pusher plates?  Are you making an Orion?

Have you seen this one?  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom
Right now all it looks like he's making is a goddamn mess. Clean up your launch pad!

More seriously, that does look neat. What are you making?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 17, 2015, 08:37:32 am
Nothing too glamorous.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's actually about half the size of the real thing, the structure at the moment barely weighs 100 tons, whereas the real thing weighs 20 thousand plus. I've tested it successfully with a thousand tons of weighs on the top deck with no problems except the runway predictably exploding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 17, 2015, 09:35:23 am
How do you plan to move it?

And.. what will it be used for?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 17, 2015, 09:45:42 am
It looks like I'll need to use Extraplanetary launchpads and build it in place, then I'll use KAS to attach machinery to it.
It's pretty much just a giant floating Hydrogen production platform for MKS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on June 17, 2015, 02:27:37 pm
I never got the "Explore Minmus" contract. Does anyone know how I can manually add it? I tried adding new explore missions from the debug menu, but it just picks random ones. Never the Minmus contract either.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 17, 2015, 02:32:05 pm
Decline existing missions until the Minmus one pops up. It's faster to do this via debug menu when you're not in any of the buildings.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 17, 2015, 02:38:34 pm
If you've already entered minmus orbit (or maybe even just soi?) Then you've blown it.  You'll never get that contract, nor any related "worlds firsts" that you complete before they come up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 03:42:35 pm
They aren't even contracts anymore, I thought?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on June 17, 2015, 04:36:50 pm
Some of them are.  While the altitude and velocity "contracts" are automatically entered, things like the "orbit X" and "land on X" need to still be accepted, and thus will fall prey to the accidental lock-out by going too far. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on June 17, 2015, 08:05:17 pm
Is there any way to manually add it in somehow? I did have world's first contracts for Minmus, but not the main explore contract. I assumed I needed more reputation, but I guess it's a glitch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on June 17, 2015, 08:42:09 pm
Mmm...not sure.  You could try opening your persistent.sfs file for your save and deleting the mentions of Minmus, but the only time I ever altered the save was to remove the Flag Pole references (this before the Pole/Pol bug was fixed), so I don't really recall how to do it without breaking anything.  Plus, I was doing that to stop contracts from spawning, rather than start them, so it might not even work. 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 17, 2015, 08:42:30 pm
Quote from: GrayFox on June 17, 2015, 08:05:17 pm
Is there any way to manually add it in somehow? I did have world's first contracts for Minmus, but not the main explore contract. I assumed I needed more reputation, but I guess it's a glitch.

Sometimes it takes awhile to show up. Explore Minmus showed up before Minmus Flyby, if I remember right in my current game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 19, 2015, 01:45:34 pm
Tried to do my first proper mun landing. Completely fucked up the part where I need to get to the mun first because I still suck at building rockets, it's even funnier because I already had a very nicely working design, but no, I just had build a new one to house that big ass lander. Then I barely got halfway there before running out of fuel on everything but the lander.
So I used the fuel it had to give it a somewhat smaller orbit before attempting a rescue effort. I even managed to hit the intersect to like, less than 20 km's. But I just had to mess up the EVA transfer so now I have two parts of a mun rocket orbiting, the rescue ship orbiting and nearly out of fuel and an EVA kerbal orbiting and hoplessly trying to transfer. Closest I got was about 2 km's before the rescue craft sped off on its merry way leaving the poor sod stranded again.

Think I'm just gonna start from scratch again, the space has gotten way too crowded and rescuing both kerbals is going to be an even bigger nightmare (I'm imagining something like a rescue cascade or something where everyone attempting to rescue just gets stranded until I run out of funds/kerbals/space in orbit)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 19, 2015, 01:52:54 pm
Quote from: Jopax on June 19, 2015, 01:45:34 pm
Think I'm just gonna start from scratch again, the space has gotten way too crowded and rescuing both kerbals is going to be an even bigger nightmare (I'm imagining something like a rescue cascade or something where everyone attempting to rescue just gets stranded until I run out of funds/kerbals/space in orbit)
You know its bad when the Kessler Syndrome lets your Kerbals hold hands around the planet
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on June 19, 2015, 09:02:17 pm
I can't believe this just happened... well, actually, I guess I can. My new (first time trying to mine) mining outpost just suddenly fell apart. I landed it, did two ore mining contracts. Things seemed okay.... then it just fell apart!  How can I prevent this from happening again? :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 19, 2015, 10:24:39 pm
I've been working on a Space Shuttle using Realism Overhaul.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, it's going well so far. The only thing I have to fix is the angle on the main engine. It's not balanced quite right and sends the thing spinning once the SRBs decouple. All in all, it's been fairly smooth sailing considering this is my first time building a shuttle in KSP.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on June 19, 2015, 11:35:48 pm
Having installed KIS & KAS, I've begun overhauling my LKO space station, mostly in the interest of reducing part count. KSSM-1 was a pilot mission to deliver small storage containers and test servicing techniques. I removed and deorbited surplus struts, but the process was a bit tedious.

The KSSM-2 freighter, still docked on the left side of the illustration, delivered a large permanent storage container, straightened the crooked #2 docking assembly, paved the way for future expansion with Clamp-O-Tron Senior ports, and is about to return to Kerbin carrying extra parts. It brought up equipment which allowed me to detach the upper stage of the rocket that launched the main station and fly it into the ocean. To help with the work, KSSM-3 delivered two small robots (one seen attached to the IMC-250 at lower left) and their docking/storage platform (at upper right, with one unit still attached). They greatly sped up the work by hauling more parts than a Kerbal could carry.

The next mission to this station will replace the many small monopropellent tanks with fewer larger ones and upgrade the lifeboats from their current slightly-better-than-death situation, but first I'm going to fly MSSM-1 to my Munar station. This will combine the payloads of KSSM-2 and KSSM-3 into a single launch. Besides strut removal and ladder installation, I plan to remove one of the science modules (which are only there for looks, this being a sandbox game). Since they're not attached with docking ports and I'd rather not use the fly-something-into-the-station-at-60-m/s servicing technique, this will be a tricky operation.

Spoiler: Space station (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 20, 2015, 04:23:51 am
I am looking for something a little different with my next game. Anyone want to recommend me a good alternate tech tree?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 20, 2015, 06:56:48 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on June 20, 2015, 04:23:51 am
I am looking for something a little different with my next game. Anyone want to recommend me a good alternate tech tree?
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100385-Community-Tech-Tree-2-0-last-updated-03-05-15?p=1546633#post1546633
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on June 20, 2015, 12:33:42 pm
MSSM-1 is not going well so far. A Kerbal collided with and knocked off a solar panel, I somehow pulled the middle out of one of my EVA-assistance units, leaving the unit's fuel tanks to drift away into space, and I think I managed to lose a few struts. All of these are now hazardous debris in the same orbit as the station.

In addition, when I re-dock one of the servicing units after loading it up with cargo, I end up in a state where I can't switch vessels and I can't return to the space center. At this point I have to kill the game and restart. With this cascade of disasters I'm wondering if I ought to boost to a safer orbit, evacuate most of the station, have the visiting ships take the docking structure with them, then deorbit the troubled main station. I hate to see all that work plow into the surface of the Mun, but it might be better that way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on June 20, 2015, 12:37:31 pm
Question: When doing station contracts, do I have to have FILLED fuel tanks for it to count as completed? I asking since there's a world of difference between an 8-9 ton assembly(doable, if annoying due to how long orange tanks are) and 50 tons(a real PITA to do, especially if I don't want to actually lose money even with the docking contract I'd complete at the same time)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 20, 2015, 01:07:43 pm
Quote from: tryrar on June 20, 2015, 12:37:31 pm
Question: When doing station contracts, do I have to have FILLED fuel tanks for it to count as completed? I asking since there's a world of difference between an 8-9 ton assembly(doable, if annoying due to how long orange tanks are) and 50 tons(a real PITA to do, especially if I don't want to actually lose money even with the docking contract I'd complete at the same time)

They should say what capacity and yes it needs to be filled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on June 20, 2015, 01:22:10 pm
Damn. So I'll either need to send an orange tank up empty and send more missions to fill it, or somehow get it into orbit filled without spending several hundred thousand spacebux doing so(those things are HEAVY). Either way I won't make anything close to a profit on this and am now questioning what the point of station contracts are since they don't give near the profit required to build them
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on June 20, 2015, 01:24:17 pm
Probably the same as most of the other contracts: to encourage you to try new things. Unfortunately, rewarding you for doing those things obviously needs some work.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 20, 2015, 01:32:19 pm
50 tons is cheaper to lift in one go than several. It's also fairly easy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on June 20, 2015, 01:49:31 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on June 20, 2015, 01:32:19 pm
50 tons is cheaper to lift in one go than several. It's also fairly easy.

Asperagused mainsails? That was my first thought...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 20, 2015, 02:10:08 pm
Quote from: tryrar on June 20, 2015, 01:49:31 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on June 20, 2015, 01:32:19 pm
50 tons is cheaper to lift in one go than several. It's also fairly easy.

Asperagused mainsails? That was my first thought...

You don't have to, but that's one way. It can also be done with just 2 lifter stages, one atop another.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on June 20, 2015, 05:08:01 pm
The average Asparagus staged rocket seems like it would be very cost inefficient for this type of thing. You usually end up ditching a lot of expensive engines without using them to their full potential. You might want some kind of drop tank setup with a minimal number of engines instead. A hybrid would probably be best, but it would have a lot of drag.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 20, 2015, 05:14:06 pm
Manged to land on the Mun!
First few attempts were spent getting to it first without wasting all my fuel. First actual landing went awesome until the actual touchdown at which point my kinda tall lander tipped over. Second actual landing went without a hitch since I modified the lander to be more stable. Then Jeb had to be an asshole and tip the whole thing over while he was trying to get to a thermometer inside a service bay that was next to one of the lander legs.
At this point I'm done with it all. If I have to do another fucking transfer only for something random to fuck it all up at the very end I'll murder somebody.

Still, damn nice to know that with a bit of thinking you can actually solve stuff somewhat nicely.

Also set up a very ugly and kinda screwed up satellite network over Kerbin. It's mostly ugly because for some reason one of the manouver nodes bugged out and one of the satellites burned all it's fuel to give me a rather eliptic orbit, all the others are pretty fine and I still have pretty much full coverage around the equator if I need it, gonna have to look into making a couple of polar ones with more powerful transmitters too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 20, 2015, 06:16:36 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 20, 2015, 06:56:48 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on June 20, 2015, 04:23:51 am
I am looking for something a little different with my next game. Anyone want to recommend me a good alternate tech tree?
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100385-Community-Tech-Tree-2-0-last-updated-03-05-15?p=1546633#post1546633
Community Tech Tree isn't really an alternate tech tree; it's more of a "stock enhanced" tech tree. But... I am trying the Open techtree which supports CTT. Could be good! (I would love to try the contract based tech tree, but I want too many mod parts this time around.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on June 20, 2015, 06:19:19 pm
I have been abusing asparagus mainsails lately... which is funny because I never bothered with asparagus, except maybe once, until the release version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 21, 2015, 04:04:02 am
Quote from: Jopax on June 20, 2015, 05:14:06 pm
Manged to land on the Mun!
First few attempts were spent getting to it first without wasting all my fuel. First actual landing went awesome until the actual touchdown at which point my kinda tall lander tipped over. Second actual landing went without a hitch since I modified the lander to be more stable. Then Jeb had to be an asshole and tip the whole thing over while he was trying to get to a thermometer inside a service bay that was next to one of the lander legs.
At this point I'm done with it all. If I have to do another fucking transfer only for something random to fuck it all up at the very end I'll murder somebody.

Still, damn nice to know that with a bit of thinking you can actually solve stuff somewhat nicely.

Also set up a very ugly and kinda screwed up satellite network over Kerbin. It's mostly ugly because for some reason one of the manouver nodes bugged out and one of the satellites burned all it's fuel to give me a rather eliptic orbit, all the others are pretty fine and I still have pretty much full coverage around the equator if I need it, gonna have to look into making a couple of polar ones with more powerful transmitters too.
You should've quicksaved more :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 21, 2015, 08:34:02 am
Huh, now that I've actually started quicksaving it wasn't so hard after all X)

Also managed to get to Minmus afterwards, now I'll need to figure out how to best land on it, I'm guessing the general requirements are the same as for Mun, but I wanna modify the lander a bit, tho I have no idea how to make it a proper two parter without adding shittons of extra stuff, also I am yet to do a successful orbital meetup so that's kinda putting a damper on things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 21, 2015, 08:49:37 am
Minmus is much easier than the mun.  You can get down and back up with much less delta-v, and there are giant flat spots to land on. 

The hardest part is not over-thrusting on descent and wasting fuel. eating all the delicious gelato.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 21, 2015, 08:53:21 am
Yeah, Minmus is pretty easy. There are giant flat spots around the equator and the gravity is much weaker. I usually use the same lander for both, even if it is a bit overkill for Minmus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:00:55 am
You can land on Minmus by sneezing in its direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 21, 2015, 10:39:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:00:55 am
You can land on Minmus by sneezing in its direction.
Actually you need to sneeze prograde. :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on June 21, 2015, 10:42:38 am
But you have to sneeze again before landing towards the surface.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 21, 2015, 11:05:05 am
Managed the landing, it was as easy as you guys said. Heck, even the return trip left me with a bunch of fuel, tho I used that to slow myself down before reentry a bit, wasn't needed but it was a fun little thing to do.

Now I've got 1k science to spend on stuff, and it all looks so tempting *__*
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 05:25:23 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on June 21, 2015, 10:39:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:00:55 am
You can land on Minmus by sneezing in its direction.
Actually you need to sneeze prograde. :V
You mean retrograde right? Sneezing prograde will send you flying from the surface and back into Kerbin orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 21, 2015, 08:50:52 pm
Shush with yer complimicated sneezerocketry science stuff.
Pointy end goes up and hot end points at the ground, dis way we go to spaase today.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Hey, I just noticed XKCD has a book now with this kind of stuff in it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 21, 2015, 11:24:40 pm
November. Not SOON(tm) enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 22, 2015, 04:36:08 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 05:25:23 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on June 21, 2015, 10:39:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:00:55 am
You can land on Minmus by sneezing in its direction.
Actually you need to sneeze prograde. :V
You mean retrograde right? Sneezing prograde will send you flying from the surface and back into Kerbin orbit.

well, if you are facing prograde, sneezing will slow you
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on June 22, 2015, 09:39:28 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 21, 2015, 11:24:40 pm
November. Not SOON(tm) enough.

Sorry... what's in November? Likely date of the next update?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on June 22, 2015, 09:46:21 am
Quote from: GrayFox on June 22, 2015, 09:39:28 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 21, 2015, 11:24:40 pm
November. Not SOON(tm) enough.

Sorry... what's in November? Likely date of the next update?
The new xkcd book referenced in the post before his.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on June 22, 2015, 09:46:41 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on June 22, 2015, 04:36:08 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 05:25:23 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on June 21, 2015, 10:39:34 am
Quote from: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:00:55 am
You can land on Minmus by sneezing in its direction.
Actually you need to sneeze prograde. :V
You mean retrograde right? Sneezing prograde will send you flying from the surface and back into Kerbin orbit.

well, if you are facing prograde, sneezing will slow you
But isn't that sneezing retrograde?
I mean, the sneezer is on the front of the structure, unlike the engines at the back.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mipe on June 22, 2015, 09:50:32 am
It depends where you are relative to Minmus. If you sneeze prograde while in front of Minmus, you'll propel yourself away from it. If you do so while behind it, you'll impale yourself into it. With retrograde, it is other way around.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on June 22, 2015, 04:19:21 pm
Quote from: GrayFox on June 22, 2015, 09:39:28 am
Quote from: BigD145 on June 21, 2015, 11:24:40 pm
November. Not SOON(tm) enough.

Sorry... what's in November? Likely date of the next update?

next update is in, like, a week IIRC

maybe a month
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 22, 2015, 04:31:27 pm
Actually it just came out.

today.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/346-KSP-1-0-3-now-Available!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 22, 2015, 05:32:57 pm
I was just starting to get comfy with my current mod lineup, too.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aqizzar on June 22, 2015, 11:56:43 pm
Reading the changelog, sounds like I'll have to learn how to fly planes all over again.  Not too bad considering I never had a good handle on it before.

Hopefully KerbalEngineer gets updated soon, if it doesn't still work.  People can complain about flight-info mods all they want, the simple fact is NASA does not send craft into orbit with unit-less gauges and a stopwatch for instrumentation.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 23, 2015, 12:55:59 am
I use KE because the info is useful and because big data readouts look cool
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 23, 2015, 02:33:38 pm
Quote from: Aqizzar on June 22, 2015, 11:56:43 pm
Reading the changelog, sounds like I'll have to learn how to fly planes all over again.  Not too bad considering I never had a good handle on it before.

Hopefully KerbalEngineer gets updated soon, if it doesn't still work.  People can complain about flight-info mods all they want, the simple fact is NASA does not send craft into orbit with unit-less gauges and a stopwatch for instrumentation.

seems a good moment as any to link this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6JGNiMMU0c

(but I agree completely I'm not flocking you)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 23, 2015, 06:16:01 pm
1.0.4 already? What was so broken in 1.0.3?

Edit: Ah. "We’ve just released a small patch to resolve an issue some users were having with craft in saves created in KSP 1.0.3 that were not loading properly, and became uncontrollable. "
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 24, 2015, 03:27:19 pm
So I'm at that point where I've exhausted most science sources around Kerbin. What's left is finally figuring out docking and figuring out how the hell would I expand to the other planets of the system.

Duna seems closest and easiest for that, there's even a contract for exploring it, but I'm still completely clueless as to how I'd go about doing that.

Oh well, time to do what I always do, build a needlessly large rocket and then fiddle with it until it kinda-sorta-maybe works as it should :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 24, 2015, 03:59:02 pm
Getting to duna isn't much harder than getting to the mun. You just need a good departure window.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 24, 2015, 04:02:19 pm
I don't know if anyone has collected all the aerobraking numbers yet. That's the easiest way to plan for Duna or Eve. You need far less dV.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 24, 2015, 04:03:29 pm
The numbers will be very different now with the new atmospheric heating and such.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 24, 2015, 04:27:53 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on June 24, 2015, 04:03:29 pm
The numbers will be very different now with the new atmospheric heating and such.
Also of course due to the new drag model. But even without aerobraking you can theoretically land on Gilly using less delta-v than you need to land on the Mün.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 24, 2015, 04:39:05 pm
Think my bigger problem is getting there first :P

Also I really should get me a mod that calculates dV already. Eyballing stuff can get tedius, mostly because it involves so much trial and error (oh your lifter got you nicely out of orbit, but this time you fell just short of making a mun transfer? too bad, do it all over again).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 24, 2015, 04:46:01 pm
Either 12km or 10km was a good Duna number.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 24, 2015, 06:18:05 pm
Quote from: Jopax on June 24, 2015, 04:39:05 pm
Think my bigger problem is getting there first :P

Also I really should get me a mod that calculates dV already. Eyballing stuff can get tedius, mostly because it involves so much trial and error (oh your lifter got you nicely out of orbit, but this time you fell just short of making a mun transfer? too bad, do it all over again).

All about them departure times. There's a protractor mod that calculates that for you in game, and also a internet app thing that will do it out of game somewhere.
But then if you don't have life support mods or anything like that you can just get into orbit and mess with maneuver nodes every few months to find a good one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 25, 2015, 12:28:23 am
Transfer angle calculator here: http://ksp.olex.biz/
Transfer window planner here: http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/
I don't completely trust the dV numbers on any of those, but that's mostly because my transfers are always horribly inefficient, though sometimes I have managed with less than a calculator has suggested.
If you're unsure I recommend launching a simple test mission with far more dV than you should actually need long in advance of any more complicated and expensive missions.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on June 25, 2015, 02:49:28 am
I've really never figured out how to do interplanetary transfers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 25, 2015, 03:21:01 am
My method is to overbuild and eyeball it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 25, 2015, 04:36:54 am
Quote from: Jopax on June 24, 2015, 04:39:05 pm
Think my bigger problem is getting there first :P

Also I really should get me a mod that calculates dV already. Eyballing stuff can get tedius, mostly because it involves so much trial and error (oh your lifter got you nicely out of orbit, but this time you fell just short of making a mun transfer? too bad, do it all over again).
Actually there's a really easy method to calculate dV manually. You know that the engineer report in the VAB shows you the mass of your craft? Well, for every stage you have, just take the ratio of initial to final mass (measure once with full stage tanks, then with empty stage tanks) and the ISP of the stage engines, then look up your stage dV in this handy chart. (http://i.imgur.com/8M5WfNA.png) To get the total dV of your craft, just add all the stage dV together.

This also shows you how to build nice spacecraft without using infinity stages, just make your mass ratios high enough.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on June 27, 2015, 09:50:05 pm
My Munbase program had its first successful launch, delivering my third-generation ISRU rover (the first to fly beyond suborbital launch failures testing). Lessons learned:
Spoiler: Landing site (click to show/hide)
All that rover testing led to this:
Spoiler: SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! (click to show/hide)
(edited for typo)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 27, 2015, 09:59:30 pm
I'm pretty sure those aren't rovers so much as they are Space Winnebago's
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on June 27, 2015, 10:13:01 pm
That's a Gundam skateboard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on June 30, 2015, 02:04:31 pm
The second official mod (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/347-Introducing-the-Asteroid-Day-mod!) is available today. This one's based on the Sentinel mission.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on June 30, 2015, 02:11:13 pm
I did it again. I stranded a Kerbal in orbit because I didn't have enough fuel coming back from the Mun. Then I sent a rescue ship and everything went perfectly except the part where I ran out of fuel while trying to deorbit it.

Now I have three Kerbals stranded in a rather eccentric orbit which means it's going to be even harder to rescue them all properly. Especially since I need to get all three of them back :V
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on June 30, 2015, 09:11:38 pm
Get out and push ya lazy bum!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on June 30, 2015, 10:15:16 pm
Quote from: Jopax on June 30, 2015, 02:11:13 pm
Now I have three Kerbals stranded in a rather eccentric orbit

That isn't what that word means.

If they had lots of fuel, it could be an eccentric orbit.  If they are stranded, it's just a crazy orbit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on July 01, 2015, 12:08:34 am
eccentric meaning not centered, highly elliptical?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 01, 2015, 12:23:58 am
it's a joke about rich people
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on July 01, 2015, 02:32:23 am
Hehehe, that's a good one.

Anyways, managed to save the buggers, I just used the same rescue vehicle, except I added a Mk1 pod on top of the Mk2. The orbits were a bit fudged so I had to transfer them one by one via EVA some 10 or so km's and by the time the last guy got out the separation grew to a little over 20 km's

Now I'm trying to build a space station, got the first part up there which wasn't that hard since it wasn't too huge. Now I need to haul up the science lab and some extra bunks for the contract, this is proving much more challenging since they're fucking huge and make my rockets spaz out after a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 01, 2015, 06:24:41 am
So hey, anyone else play with Interstellar after the reentry heating stuff got added?

I wanna know if the "active cooling" nitrogen cryostat things dissipate vanilla style heat or if its just a fancy version of the radiators and the "wasteheat" resource thing.

Because I wanna make a atmosphere entering lander that's reusable and not having to strap heatshields errywhere would be awesome.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on July 01, 2015, 11:28:50 am
I wish they'd simplify interstellar again.

Antimatter? Great. Reactor/Thermal/Engine/Radiator separation? Fantastic. Undocumented and obtuse soot modeling? That's going a little too far...

It's an arbitrary distinction in some ways, yes, but man is it annoying.

Also, it'd be great if cut down on the number of exotic reaction mass sources that nobody uses.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 01, 2015, 11:34:30 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 01, 2015, 06:24:41 am
Because I wanna make a atmosphere entering lander that's reusable and not having to strap heatshields errywhere would be awesome.
Make ablator pumpable, add it to the resources that can be created from ore. Boom, reusable lander. :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Jopax on July 02, 2015, 02:14:49 pm
Did it!

Had to make the crew quarters and the lab a two parter since it just made the rocket way too big and unstable when trying to send them together. And aside from the time I forgot to deploy the solar panels on the habitat ship and had to relaunch it all again since it was drone operated it went pretty smoothly, heck, even docking has become a bit of a routine it seems.

Naturally, I had no idea how labs functioned so now I have to send up a fourth ship with nothing but science experiments to provide a nice amount of data for the lab to process. Luckily I made all the parts of the station have docking ports on all sides so expansion is pretty easy this way.

After this I'll try and seriously look at going to another planet, atleast with a drone or something, my lander designs are pretty shitty still.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 02, 2015, 05:37:51 pm
Quote from: Jopax on July 02, 2015, 02:14:49 pm
After this I'll try and seriously look at going to another planet, atleast with a drone or something, my lander designs are pretty shitty still.
Then go to Eve, on Eve you can land a space station with a drogue chute. do not actually try this please
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on July 02, 2015, 05:45:47 pm
...and never leave again.

Though maybe now you could parachute down a refinery and leave in a smaller rocket?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 02, 2015, 06:03:18 pm
Quote from: puke on July 02, 2015, 05:45:47 pm
...and never leave again.

Though maybe now you could parachute down a refinery and leave in a smaller rocket?
Or use Interstellar with its cheatengines :P

My planned Eve exit vehicle will be one big thermal turbojet with four radial Swivel's, or even better, those silly magnet engines with the same thrust but infinity+1 isp.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 02, 2015, 07:26:46 pm
I've been trying to do the missions from the historic mission pack with Realism Overhaul, but contract configurator seems to hate my guts.

It started by throwing out fatal exceptions every five seconds because the guy who made the mission pack forgot to switch "Mun" with "Moon" for the Lunkhod missions. Then, when I fixed it myself, it caused the game to freeze while loading the save for some reason. So I fixed that but it erased all my mission progress. Then a while later it started freezing again, but I managed to revert to a quicksave without losing everything. Except now, just after I completed the Mariner 2 Venus flyby, if I time accelerate a day or so the game will freeze again for no apparent reason. I just want to get to some of the more interesting missions, dammit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on July 03, 2015, 08:42:25 pm
In an attempt to launch a space Winnebago mech rollerskate heavy construction rover, I decided to construct a cruciform launch vehicle with a claw in the middle and rockets at its four points. The vehicle uses Launch Stability Enhancers and hydraulic rails from Infernal Robotics to lower itself onto the payload.

The first version proved to be too small and to not have enough lift height for easy attachment. The second version was easy to drive underneath and dock to; unfortunately, it seems that grabbing the payload makes the launch pad explode.
Spoiler: Oops (click to show/hide)
Thanks to the Launch Stability Enhancers the vessel seems to be intact, so I'm going to try to fly it.

Edit 1: Also, I should really start launching these things uncrewed. I seem to have developed a bad habit of building vehicles with no survivable abort modes before reaching orbit.

Edit 2: ... as the flight's outcome proved. Not having learned my lesson, I'm going to change staging to let the engines throttle up before releasing the rocket.

Edit 3: Thanks to more struts, TCA maneuver engines and a straight-up ascent profile, the construction rover is now parked in Munar orbit waiting for me to decide where to land it. Meanwhile on the ground, the ISRU rover has gone almost 50 km as the space-crow flies and rendezvoused with an unkerballed supply ship to load up on spare parts. Despite catching air (vacuum?) frequently while speeding across the terrain, I've managed to avoid rolling it again by driving with SAS on and being very careful cornering.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 05, 2015, 12:56:50 am
Fixed the contract mod issue. It turned out everything was being caused by the Lunkhod missions I originally edited, they're gone now. As for how they could have such an effect, I have no idea.


Just had a mission almost end in disaster, but managed to save it at the last second. The mission was the Soyuz-2 and 3 rendezvous. I had just brought the encounter distance down to 2km but failed to realize my perigee was now in the atmosphere. I was just barely skimming it with the lowest point reaching only 110km (the edge of the atmosphere is 130km with RSS) but with deadly reentry it was still very dangerous.

I was worried when a couple lights and some RCS ports blew up, but after I started gaining altitude again I was satisfied nothing important was going to burn up. I let my guard down and, while I wasn't paying attention, the spacecraft drifted and ended up with its side facing the wind. Before I could correct this the decoupler between the descent module and the service module exploded, leaving the craft adrift with no control or propulsion aside from the pod's inbuilt RCS.

I could have aborted the mission and waited for the orbit to decay, but there was one option left salvage it, risky though it may be. The aerobraking had actually improved my encounter and even with the lack of control at the end it was still under 500m. If the pilot could complete the encounter in EVA, she could take over the unmanned Soyuz-2. I figured it was worth a shot, even though the target was in a 250km circular orbit. She made it with barely any fuel to spare. She has one trial left: surviving reentry. My first Soyuz pod had deadly problems with aerodynamics once it got deep in the atmosphere. I attempted to fix it for this mission but it's untested. The danger isn't over yet.

Edit: My fix worked, and it was one of the smoothest reentries I've done. Never even got to 4g, Success!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on July 05, 2015, 06:50:31 am
Really? In real life by 100 kilometres the air density is like 0.000001 atmospheres, RSS should probably do something about that if they're going for realism, I think adding additional settings in the physics file for Drag below the "key = 25 1 0 0" setting might do it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 05, 2015, 12:35:49 pm
Yeah, seemed weird to me too. Heating still seems a bit wonky. my Venera lander couldn't even get close to Venus, the probe body just spontaneously exploded a few seconds after it touched the atmosphere despite its heatshield. Even stranger, on my first attempt where I went in much steeper, the probe lasted until the pressure got to be too much for the heat shield. Hopefully it gets better once it's updated to 1.04.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 07, 2015, 10:10:45 pm
FINALLY got that damn Minmus rocket I had been working on into orbit. Usually don't have so much trouble with these things, but this one just wanted to flip upside down no matter what I did.

Was basically a makeshift lander on top of asparagus Twin-Boars. Had to do a full straight up ascent profile (I have actually been getting good at gravity turns, so this is now abnormal) to keep the bastard from pointing the wrong end towards space.

Still, after it got out of the atmosphere it performed beautifully, practically landed on the last Twin-Boar it had so much delta-v. Ended up going to 3 biomes, then getting a quick sun orbit before coming back and landing on Kerbin.

Much science was had. After a few more fundraising contracts I can grab the last R&D upgrade, then the REAL fun can begin.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on July 08, 2015, 12:20:57 am
This http://imgur.com/a/0k5PE (http://imgur.com/a/0k5PE)
EDIT: Holy crap big image.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
I love The F-22 Raptor so I thought I would build The F-22 Raptor.  Here is The F-22 Raptor that I built.  It's a stock The F-22 Raptor.  I know it isn't much but making an The F-22 Raptor means a lot to me so I made an The F-22 Raptor and wanted to share it with people who also like The F-22 Raptor.
Reminded me of an artefact so I came up with this:
Quote
This is a stock The F-22 Raptor. All craftkermanship is of the highest The F-22 Raptor. It is encrusted with The F-22 raptor and encircled with bands of The F-22 Raptor. This object menaces with spikes of The F-22 Raptor. On the The F-22 Raptor is an image of The F-22 Raptor in Raptor bone. The The F-22 Raptor is Raptoring. The artwork relates to the completion of the The F-22 Raptor by the mostly stock except for mechjeb, Engineer Redux and a whole bunch of other shit in r/KerbalSpaceProgram in 1.0.4. On the The F-22 Raptor is an image of Valentina Kerman the Kerbal and a The F-22 Raptor in Raptor bone. The Kerbal is Raptoring the The F-22 Raptor. The Raptor is making a Raptoring gesture. The Kerbal is Laughing. On the The F-22 Raptor is an image of snacks in Raptor cheese.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 08, 2015, 03:30:44 am
Why did they use rapier engines, I wonder. Was it just for looks, or do they intend for it to be a space plane? It confuses me.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 08, 2015, 05:28:35 am
Not enough The F-22 Raptor

Quote from: Aseaheru on July 08, 2015, 03:30:44 am
Why did they use rapier engines, I wonder. Was it just for looks, or do they intend for it to be a space plane? It confuses me.
Did you even raptor The albumF-22 Raptor?!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 08, 2015, 05:31:19 am
No, I did not. Mostly because I assumed that it was just the one image.

Well, I guess assuming has lived up to its goal of making an ass of the two of us.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 09, 2015, 12:17:02 am
I went back and tried a Venera landing again with a redesigned spacecraft. This time I went for the night side in case that actually makes a difference. A slightly too-powerful decoupler ended up putting me at an extremely steep entry angle but the new procedural heat shield managed to hold where the stock-based version had failed. Despite topping out at a crushing 52 Gs of acceleration the lander survived mostly intact, save some scientific instruments. Unfortunately the relay orbiter passed into Venus' shadow during my descent so I couldn't get any atmospheric data going down. Probably should have planned that better.

The landing itself was a bit rough, coming in at 20 m/s, but it only destroyed the heat shield. It should have been a lot slower but the stabilizer I had made out of procedural wings had randomly exploded way back in Earth orbit. Without it the craft listed from side to side and didn't get nearly as much drag.

All in all, it was a pretty successful mission. I just wish I had the visual enhancements, Venus without clouds is just wrong.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 09, 2015, 02:03:48 pm
Quote from: nogoodnames on July 09, 2015, 12:17:02 am
Venus without horrible ship eating acid atmosphere is just wrong.
FTFY
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on July 09, 2015, 02:41:34 pm
Kind of hit a science plateau where I didn't have the tech to go places to get big chunks of science needed to get the tech to go places to get big chunks of science to....you get the idea.


So I designed a basic temp/barometer probe with a NERVA engine, a big fuel tank and a lifter stage. Gets into Kerbin orbit with about 6500 km/s delta-V leftover. So I started launching craploads of them and shooting them at every body in range.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Have to wait quite a while but that's a pretty cheap investment (~57,000 Kerbucks) for some nice juicy science. Even managed to land one on Ike after doing both a Duna/Ike flyby.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 09, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
Quote from: RedKing on July 09, 2015, 02:41:34 pm
Kind of hit a science plateau where I didn't have the tech to go places to get big chunks of science needed to get the tech to go places to get big chunks of science to....you get the idea.
A duna flyby isn't much more delta-v than a mun flyby, and you could send home a good chunk of science. May be worth a shot
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on July 09, 2015, 03:59:22 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on July 09, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
Quote from: RedKing on July 09, 2015, 02:41:34 pm
Kind of hit a science plateau where I didn't have the tech to go places to get big chunks of science needed to get the tech to go places to get big chunks of science to....you get the idea.
A duna flyby isn't much more delta-v than a mun flyby, and you could send home a good chunk of science. May be worth a shot
See last sentence of my post. I've already done a Duna fly-by (was the second probe to get to its target, after the Moho flyby). It even dipped down into the upper atmosphere to get yet more science. Sadly, it tipped over after landing on Ike, or else I'd have lifted off again and tried a landing on Duna.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 09, 2015, 04:08:03 pm
Whoops, I missed that.

Selective reading and all that, sorry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 09, 2015, 09:30:07 pm
Did you do the tour of the KSC yet?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 09, 2015, 10:52:53 pm
Could also throw up a basic station with the science lab on it and grind science that way.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2015, 12:30:51 am
So you're pretty much where NASA is RedKing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 16, 2015, 06:28:46 am
Quote from: Sheb on July 16, 2015, 12:30:51 am
So you're pretty much where NASA is RedKing?
No no, RedKing has no science, NASA has no money. RedKing is doing much better then NASA!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 16, 2015, 04:47:39 pm
I love how the merge feature lets you compare your various rockets against each other. I used it with Kronal Vessel Viewer to put together this scale image:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It has all the rockets I've used for the Soviet side of my historic missions RSS campaign, bar a couple minor variants. They're not replicas except in a very loose sense, but looking at the progression of design like this gives them a really neat historic feel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 01:33:31 am
So am I the only one who noticed the absolute saturation of ISRU stuff recently?

I mean, used to be Kethane was the only thing that did that, then Interstellar did its own and I never touched Kethane again, but THEN Stock got its own ISRU system.
And then theres the stuff that builds off Kethane like Extraplanetary Launchpads and Umbra Colonization Crap.

Current build should be called "ISR U2?"


In other news I'm sorta planning my next modlist in my head. Abandoning Umbra stuff for now, both because it doesn't want to play nice with TAC life support despite being designed to do so, and because all the fun stuff in it has dependencies upon dependencies that all go back to Kethane which is "bunch of parts I won't touch the whole game" so its just a waste of space at that point.

So first off, my ESSENTIALS:
Interstellar Expanded- also requires tweakscale but I can't imagine KSP without Interstellar at this point so fuck it.
TAC Life Support- FOR MUH IMMERSION
KIS/KAS- So astronauts can do astronaut things and Munar Whaling can commence.
Kerbal Construction Time- Because waiting for shit makes it extra special
Biomass- Because TAC doesn't let you grow food, and the extra experiments are cool and make sense to be experiments

And now for the stuff I plan to add, most of which I have never used before:
Kerbal Engineer- REALLY shoulda been using this before, but wasn't, will probably become an ESSENTIAL after this.
Kerbal Alarm Clock- See above
ScanSat- Because satellites should actually satellite instead of just being space trash.
Asteroid Day- SQUAD made it and it looks awesome
Outer Planets Mod- PLANERTS??! PLANERTS!!!
Kopernicus- required by Outer Planets
BDArmory- Shooting things in space with other things in space.

Just so its not suggested, stuff I WONT add:
Umbrastuff- already noted why
RemoteTech- want it, but it apparently has lots of problems, so unfortunately have to give it a pass
"Beautification" mods- its plenty pretty already and they just clutter shit
B9- HAHAHAHA oh god its impossible to install and most of what it adds has already been added by something else

Things I'm looking for/wondering:
I heard there was something that added BDArmory contracts and spawned vehicles to murderize. Not sure if in BDArmory or if have to add something else.
Way to disable the apparent Outer Planets change to the RTGs so they stay infinite.
Any suggestions not in the Won't Add List.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 01:45:39 am
Quote from: Ispil on July 21, 2015, 01:38:10 am
About your concerns with RemoteTech, I have yet to see any real issues with it. It hasn't actually malfunctioned for me in the past, and it seems to be rather high up on the download rate list.
Well, remember Scott Manley's Interstellar Quest? It worked for about 10 episodes and then spent the rest of the series uninstalled.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 21, 2015, 02:28:05 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 01:33:31 am
I heard there was something that added BDArmory contracts and spawned vehicles to murderize. Not sure if in BDArmory or if have to add something else.
Yeah, it's one of the contract configurator packs. I tried it once, but most of the vehicles ended up spawning upside down. It may have been a conflict with another mod but I've also had a lot of problems with contract configurator itself.

Also, Re. Remote Tech, I've been using it for a long time and it's never had any major problems. The only issue it gave me was in my most recent game where it didn't apply the time delay correctly so probes still had realtime control for some things. That was using it with Realism Overhaul so there was probably just a conflict somewhere.

Speaking of RO and contract configurator, the latter has finally made my game using the former too unplayable to continue. I had wanted to get to the Apollo program historic missions, but the American space program completely stalled after completing the surveyor missions and now the game freezes if I try to cycle the contracts. It's a shame to lose the save, but now I can update and move on to a manned Mars mission (hopefully without losing motivation halfway through planning this time.) Maybe I can salvage the save and convert it to sandbox.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on July 21, 2015, 03:03:11 am
I modded too high, and burnt myself out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 04:33:46 am
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 01:33:31 am
So am I the only one who noticed the absolute saturation of ISRU stuff recently?

I mean, used to be Kethane was the only thing that did that, then Interstellar did its own and I never touched Kethane again, but THEN Stock got its own ISRU system.
And then theres the stuff that builds off Kethane like Extraplanetary Launchpads and Umbra Colonization Crap.

umbra definitely does not use kethane

IIRC it uses karbonite, or maybe stock now (since the developer is sorta the one who made the stock ISRU)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 04:46:21 am
In fact USI was created because the author disliked kethane's approach, so he coded his own resource model which was eventually folded into the base game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 05:49:43 am
Yeah, woops, it uses Karbonite yes. Which makes FOUR SEPERATE FUCKING ISRU SYSTEMS. One of which is Stock and thus in EVERY game.

So if I wanted to put USI in my game, I would have 3 different ISRU systems simultaneously. That's a lot of parts doing the same thing differently, as well as 3 separate layers of deposits on every planet.
This adds up when you have a...was the limit 3 GB or 6 GB? I forget, but yeah, limited space to put all this before the game implodes under its own weight. And that's without even considering the possibility of conflicts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 06:00:01 am
You could consolidate it with a little work. The ISRU stuff all works on modules, so copy/paste the modules into a few multipurpose parts. Memory bloat comes from the parts and textures mostly, so paring down your parts will help a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 05:28:40 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 05:49:43 am
Yeah, woops, it uses Karbonite yes. Which makes FOUR SEPERATE FUCKING ISRU SYSTEMS. One of which is Stock and thus in EVERY game.

Again, I'm pretty sure that USI uses stock considering that the developer of it made the stock system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 05:47:43 pm
Yep, the USI resource system is just the stock system with additional overlays for various resources. Heck if you wanted you could edit them all to use the stock ore resource and have only one resource mineable.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 06:42:25 pm
Ok, granted, but Extraplanetary Launchpads, one of USI's dependencies for anything actually fun in the mod uses Karbonite.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 06:44:21 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 06:42:25 pm
Ok, granted, but Extraplanetary Launchpads, one of USI's dependencies for anything actually fun in the mod uses Karbonite.
You aren't getting this. Karbonite is the stock system. The guy who made karbonite also made the stock resource system.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 07:24:47 pm
So could I then use Extraplanetary Launchpads without putting in Karbonite?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 08:28:02 pm
There are no mods that exist at all that rely on Karbonite because the Karbonite ISRU system no longer exists because it was folded into stock.

This can be seen by looking up carbonite (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89401) and reading the bold red text at the top.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 21, 2015, 08:56:46 pm
BFEL, one to check out is AntennaRange (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56440-1-0-AntennaRange-1-10-1-Enforce-and-Encourage-Antenna-Diversity). It's a good light alternative to RemoteTech.

And, yes, much ISRU abounds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 11:53:30 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 08:28:02 pm
There are no mods that exist at all that rely on Karbonite because the Karbonite ISRU system no longer exists because it was folded into stock.

This can be seen by looking up carbonite (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89401) and reading the bold red text at the top.
Quote from: BFEL on July 21, 2015, 07:24:47 pm
So could I then use Extraplanetary Launchpads without putting in Karbonite?
It seems like the answer is yes, but that isn't absolutely definitive.
If so, I MIGHT try to just do USI stuff again. And hope it doesn't do weird stuff with TACLS like it does in my current build.

Also, probably just gonna go with RemoteTech anyway, because the Interstellar Quest thing was a conflict with Ferram, and while I think I saw it having issues somewhere else, its unfair to damn it without actually giving it a shot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on July 22, 2015, 01:06:21 am
An hour and a half ago I finally succeeded in building an SSTO that (a) operates from a runway, (b) can make orbit without parts exploding and (c) isn't an orange tank with delta-wings, a Mainsail and fixed tricycle gear glued on; five minutes ago I recovered it intact. It has no useful payload and hardly any delta-v left after reaching orbit, but it actually works and I am very pleased.

Spoiler: SSTO Mk.VI "This time it will work for sure!" (click to show/hide)

One of the byproducts of the development program is a nice supersonic runabout based on an earlier LF-only version of the SSTO with the rockets removed. It has range to reach halfway around Kerbin (a failed test flight groundbreaking expedition is currently landed there waiting for a damaged-in-delivery ISRU rig I flew out to make more fuel braving the strange dangers of an unexplored tropical island) and handles well enough to make me almost not hate flying KSP fixed-wing aircraft. I can't help but compare KSP's controls to FS5 of two decades ago and find them lacking.

Although it's my first SSTO, technically it's not my first spaceplane:
Spoiler: The Mun Bomber does not inspire confidence in its crew (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 23, 2015, 01:41:31 pm
So, I'm going to attempt to build a semi-practical SSTO spaceplane using realism overhaul. If I had a proper SABRE analog I would do something like Skylon, but the RAPIER was made to use methane instead and isn't efficient enough for my needs. Instead, I've settled on something akin to Venture Star: vertical-takeoff-horizontal-landing and powered by LH2/LOX engines. I want it to carry 6 kerbals and maybe another 10 tonnes of payload.

I've narrowed the engines down to two options: the J-2T-250K Aerospike and the LR87-LH2. The aerospike has great vacuum Isp and can be ignited up to 3 times but lacks thrust vectoring. On the other hand, the LR87 has fantastic TWR, better surface Isp and can gimbal but has worse vacuum Isp and can only be ignited once. The number of ignitions is important since neither is throttleable and being able to temporarily switch the engine off would give me more control in the late stages of flight. However, I could also "throttle down" by using multiple engines and switching some off prematurely, and a gimbaling engine would also be a big help with control during ascent.

So, which looks like the better option?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 23, 2015, 06:38:18 pm
I'm thinking aerospike. Number of ignitions could be HUGELY important.

In fact with just one you CAN'T make a proper spaceplane. The entire idea of spaceplanes is accurate landings. Having an extra two ignitions means you can use it to get to orbit, then use it when back in atmo to get back to the runway, something not always possible with just gliding.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 23, 2015, 11:31:51 pm
So the next mod they're making stock is remote tech
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on July 23, 2015, 11:39:52 pm
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/350-Development-Relay
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on July 24, 2015, 12:58:33 am
Also if I read that right you won't just be able to stick a probe on your ship to let scientists/engineers work as pilots. Still another part that does that, but hey, interesting.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 24, 2015, 02:47:18 am
Well, I built the SSTO and had a semi-successful test flight. Everything important went well at least.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After ironing a few bugs out the thing flew like a dream. Going with the aerospikes was definitely the right choice, although a combination probably would have been even better. It had no trouble getting into orbit, reentry was another matter. It didn't survive, and I don't see how any spaceplane can. It only got as low as 80km before it broke up, barely managing to slow down in the thin atmosphere. The cockpit overheated and exploded soon after, RIP Valentina. I thought this version of RO was supposed to stop spaceplanes from burning up but apparently it's not enough for me.

Oh well, I accomplished what I set out to do. It was always going to be a cool but impractical spacecraft, I'll just have to stick to expendable rockets for anything serious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 24, 2015, 02:46:32 pm
Quote from: BFEL on July 24, 2015, 12:58:33 am
Also if I read that right you won't just be able to stick a probe on your ship to let scientists/engineers work as pilots. Still another part that does that, but hey, interesting.
Exactly. Probe cores now need an antenna link back to mission control to get the SAS features.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 31, 2015, 11:32:44 pm
A glimpse of my current project:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once completed it will be able to house up to 144 kerbals with 1000 days of life support. I had originally wanted a 160 kerbal torus station, launching the habitats as straight segments and then using infernal robotics to curve them in orbit. Unfortunately infernal robotics wouldn't cooperate so I have to use these awkward pickaxe-shaped pieces instead. I've also had to deal with a lot of temperature glitches as well and it looks like I will have to send up a crew earlier than I wanted in order to fasten everything down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on July 31, 2015, 11:37:39 pm
Well, those 144 kerbals would probably grow to hate the place rather quickly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 31, 2015, 11:42:53 pm
True, it would be like being crammed in a passenger airplane for three years. Although, considering the up-scaling RO does, they all have first class seats.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kilakan on August 01, 2015, 10:03:28 am
Sorry life support?  Is that a new mod or?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 01, 2015, 10:27:37 am
Life support mods have been around for years
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on August 01, 2015, 12:08:29 pm
At least a pickaxe shape is dorfy.

Edit: That space station inspired me:
Spoiler: What's this? (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Strike the Mun! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on August 02, 2015, 12:58:25 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on August 01, 2015, 10:27:37 am
Life support mods have been around for years
I seem to remember them having been around for longer than we've had proper crew.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erkki on August 02, 2015, 01:05:44 pm
LKO Taxi has brought an engineer and a scientist bound to a Duna mission(Duna ship still being assembled on orbit, still missing the lander and a fuel module) to get used to zero gravity at the space station. The station has lots of antennae to support probe missions and a science module.

Spoiler: The station and the LKO Taxi (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 04, 2015, 12:56:45 am
My torus station is finally done. All the segments are docked and linked and it should be sturdy enough to spin up. With a diameter somewhere around 50m it can simulate Earth gravity by spinning at a tolerable 6 rpm. It masses around 380 tonnes, and that with a lot of the RCS propellant used up. Fully fueled, it weighs more than the ISS. It's definitely the largest and most complex thing I've assembled in orbit.

Spoiler: Chief Engineer Trigela admires the sunset after finishing the attachments (click to show/hide)

I'm glad the building process is complete. Maneuvering six 50+ tonne, awkwardly shaped components so they dock with less than half a degree of difference between them is no easy task. The glitches certainly made things more frustrating. I even had to redo a section because it was lost to a heating glitch. For whatever reason, one of the compartments was producing heat at an exponential rate. I had to use the cheat to prevent it from constantly exploding, but the heat just kept building up. It superheated its entire section and I had to let it explode before the whole station followed suit. Before I turned off the cheat, the part had reached a temperature 30% hotter than the core of the Sun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 04, 2015, 06:30:28 am
Quote from: nogoodnames on August 04, 2015, 12:56:45 am
All the segments are docked and linked and it should be sturdy enough to spin up.
GURREN LAGANN! SPIN ON!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Philii on August 04, 2015, 07:36:02 am
Recommend me a mod. ANY OTHER Mod. my KSP version is 1.0.4.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 04, 2015, 07:56:37 am
usi kolonization system
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79588-1-0-4-USI-Kolonization-Systems-(MKS-OKS)-(0-31-6)-2015-07-29

also this is interesting extraplanetary launchpads:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-1-0-4-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v5-2-2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on August 04, 2015, 12:02:01 pm
I use these:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have no idea what half of them do, but it's a blast so far.

Only issue is that Tech Tree Mod has a few tech routes that don't unlock anything, presumably because I'm lacking mods that make use of them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 05, 2015, 01:56:49 am
I used the communit tech tree but didn't like the progression that much. Now I'm using the engineering tech tree and i feel it's much better because doesn't impose a defined progression but works more in term of difficulty of research and plain dependencies.

Might not be of your taste because of certain decisions (many experiments are unlocked affer nuclear physics which alone costs 100 science) but fits very well if you're playing hard mode (i.e. basic stuff doesn't cost an arm and a leg only because its on a high research tier and plain distance from starting node actually matters nothing)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on August 06, 2015, 12:50:45 pm
New Macey Dean video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMMkz5POcgw
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on August 09, 2015, 01:41:52 am
Quote from: Philii on August 04, 2015, 07:36:02 am
Recommend me a mod. ANY OTHER Mod.

I like the Kerbal Foundries wheels: They're better than stock and have turned my KSP into Kerbal Road Rally and Kerbal Lift Oversized Payloads To The Mun. I've been building my giant rover bodies with Kermangeddon Industries Mobile Frame System parts (no update needed for 1.0.4), but I'm probably going to add the Lack Luster Labs parts for crew modules and a better driving cab, since the current MFS big cab lacks a usable IVA.

Quote from: fourpotatoes on August 01, 2015, 12:08:29 pm
Strike the Mun!

The Mun has been struck:
Spoiler: Illustrated anecdote (click to show/hide)
Lessons learned: the mobile crane needs more ballast, I need to keep a towing dolly at the Munbase and I need to remember to actually include an ISRU converter next time I load something up with mining hardware and empty fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 10, 2015, 07:05:35 pm
I have my next RO challenge. (https://what-if.xkcd.com/139/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 12, 2015, 03:14:23 pm
Well I asked and apparently the Interstellar devs don't think the Orion Pulse Rocket fits the mod. Damn.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on August 15, 2015, 09:26:37 pm
Sadly, it turns out that flying a submarine into Jupiter's atmosphere is not actually possible with RSS. Anything that touches the atmosphere instantly explodes regardless of heat shields or radiators.

Here is the last iteration of my entry vehicle:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's a 500 tonne submarine with another 570 tonnes of heat shield and radiators. Survival rates during testing were mixed, but it seemed to perform better in thick atmospheres. It's main problem is that it's an extremely dense object, and any wings or airbrakes I added to help slow it down would quickly burn up.

I would have liked to include a picture of the utterly insane 10k tonne to LEO launch vehicle (SeaDragon, eat your heart out) I built to lift the submarine and its transfer stage. Unfortunately, memory problems broke the craft file before I could complete it and then somehow spread to the whole save, making it unplayable. KSP just isn't built to handle such massive creations.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 15, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
GAH

Started my GRAND CAMPAIGN, and it is quickly becoming apparent that parachutes do absolutely nothing. I can't seem to deploy them at any altitude that would give them time to deploy without them being ripped away, at least not at re-entry speeds.

So basically I'm losing pilots and thus money at a far higher rate then I should. BUT I TOTALLY GOT TO SPACE WITH THIS LAST ONE.

It doesn't matter because I can't ever land anything forever, but hey, that's a plus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on August 16, 2015, 03:30:40 am
I've driven my monstrous ISRU rover well over 100 km as the space-crow flies, possibly as much as 200 km picking my way around craters. Doofrood & Halny Kerman are terrified going up gentle slopes (also steep 49-degree slopes, but that's understandable), but they like nothing better than bouncing down steep mountainsides at insane speeds, soaring through the vacuum when they hit bumps and barely avoiding rolling their rover.

Kerbal Monster Truck Program proceeds apace with the launch of the Mun Bus to handle crew movements around the Mun Base. In ground testing its caterpillar tracks made it slower but more maneuverable and less tip-happy than the mobile crane, and I expect I'll be doing less drifting with it. I also have two tankers in development; the larger will probably exceed the capacity of the launcher I use even if I manage to drive it underneath for attachment, so the smaller's likely to fly first.

My SSTO program just had its second success with the maiden flight of the Mk VII, which made orbit with enough delta-V to reach my LKO space station. It turned out I'd inadvertently left out some important RCS ports, so the ship was waved off after some docking near-disasters and I put it into a steep reentry trajectory to reach KSC without making another orbit.

Weight problems caused by unused oxidizer made the vehicle spin until I pumped everything to the rear, after which it straightened out nicely. I'd lost too much altitude while tumbling and didn't have quite enough fuel to make the runway, but I managed to stretch the glide enough to set down in the field just east of KSC and roll the rest of the way. A tailstrike on landing was the only damage I had to show for the flight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dutchling on August 16, 2015, 03:33:13 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 15, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
GAH

Started my GRAND CAMPAIGN, and it is quickly becoming apparent that parachutes do absolutely nothing. I can't seem to deploy them at any altitude that would give them time to deploy without them being ripped away, at least not at re-entry speeds.

So basically I'm losing pilots and thus money at a far higher rate then I should. BUT I TOTALLY GOT TO SPACE WITH THIS LAST ONE.

It doesn't matter because I can't ever land anything forever, but hey, that's a plus.
What's your peri when entering the Kerbal atmosphere? I feel like the answer is lower than 20km :P

Parachutes aren't for vertical landings, that's were rockets and lander legs are for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 16, 2015, 08:02:22 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 15, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
GAH

Started my GRAND CAMPAIGN, and it is quickly becoming apparent that parachutes do absolutely nothing. I can't seem to deploy them at any altitude that would give them time to deploy without them being ripped away, at least not at re-entry speeds.

So basically I'm losing pilots and thus money at a far higher rate then I should. BUT I TOTALLY GOT TO SPACE WITH THIS LAST ONE.

It doesn't matter because I can't ever land anything forever, but hey, that's a plus.
Sounds like you're coming in too steeply. Drop your peri to about 25-30km and let the air slow you down first. You can't pop your chutes safely until you're under 250m/s I believe. I think drogue chutes can go higher but you may not have them. The air should be doing most of the work though. Try altering your return.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: kilakan on August 16, 2015, 09:12:59 am
Quote from: Dutchling on August 16, 2015, 03:33:13 am
Quote from: BFEL on August 15, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
GAH

Started my GRAND CAMPAIGN, and it is quickly becoming apparent that parachutes do absolutely nothing. I can't seem to deploy them at any altitude that would give them time to deploy without them being ripped away, at least not at re-entry speeds.

So basically I'm losing pilots and thus money at a far higher rate then I should. BUT I TOTALLY GOT TO SPACE WITH THIS LAST ONE.

It doesn't matter because I can't ever land anything forever, but hey, that's a plus.
What's your peri when entering the Kerbal atmosphere? I feel like the answer is lower than 20km :P

Parachutes aren't for vertical landings, that's were rockets and lander legs are for.
Even coming directly at kerbal is doable sometimes but you kinda need to wait to bust the chutes out till 2000-3000m above ground, to give the air maximum time to slow you down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 16, 2015, 09:36:46 am
I've done straight shots back to Kerbal from Mun at super high speed and we're talking maybe ten seconds between deployment and touchdown. It's edge of your seat "oh shit oh shit" and then you're at 5m/s and then landed. I usually just wait until my craft is going about 250m/s before deploying. That might be 1-2km above the surface. Don't ever deploy in the upper atmosphere.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on August 16, 2015, 10:42:47 am
I tend to keep the parachute cut off speed at around 200 km/h...anything higher and I don't deploy
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on August 16, 2015, 02:44:11 pm
On entry vehicles that aren't completely insane I tend to fire drogues (if equipped) around 5-6 km above sea level and mains about a kilometer above ground level, a compromise between safety and impatience. I bleed off orbital speed with a shallow entry and I'm well below 200 m/s by the time I deploy mains.

Straight-up suborbital flights can be harder because you don't have as much time to bleed off speed gently in the upper atmosphere. With (for example) my Reusable Tourist Suicide Rocket, there's perhaps a two-second window between "slow enough to not rip the chutes off" and "send in the Kerbals with mops".
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 16, 2015, 03:50:03 pm
Yeah, the problem is that these are still VERY early stage ships. As in cans o boom early.
No adjusting orbit because there is no orbit, there is just up and back down right now...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on August 16, 2015, 04:39:41 pm
thats why you have to still do your gravity/any turn at the early stages even if you can't reach true orbit...going straight up and back down is suicide
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 16, 2015, 04:42:31 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 16, 2015, 03:50:03 pm
Yeah, the problem is that these are still VERY early stage ships. As in cans o boom early.
No adjusting orbit because there is no orbit, there is just up and back down right now...
if you cant change your return, change your ascent
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: tryrar on August 16, 2015, 10:47:03 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on August 16, 2015, 04:42:31 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 16, 2015, 03:50:03 pm
Yeah, the problem is that these are still VERY early stage ships. As in cans o boom early.
No adjusting orbit because there is no orbit, there is just up and back down right now...
if you cant change your return, change your ascent

Huh, I have no problem with straight up and down. It helps I usually use two radials instead of one end parachute, which helps slowing down after decelerating to the proper speed considerably. (It's how I usually do tourist early on, just a few solid fuel boosters strapped to an inline and command pod and parachutes)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on August 17, 2015, 01:13:11 am
I wish tourists would occasionally like to just visit orbit even after you leave the Kerbin system, since tourism missions are perfect for SSTO spaceplanes, and you don't actually get to build spaceplanes until later in the game...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on August 17, 2015, 03:10:08 am
I honestly think tourism should be late game missions...makes no sense for people to want to hop on your fledgling rocket program without proving yourself
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on August 17, 2015, 10:42:47 am
Nobody ever said the Kerbal intelligence was restricted to the astronauts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on September 03, 2015, 01:55:17 pm
So does anybody have advice on how to build a manned rover? I have all the parts I should need, but there's two areas I have major problems with:

1. Testing the rover -- plugging a seat into the rover doesn't seem to create a crewed space, so I can't do any Kerbin-bound testing.
2. Attaching the rover to the lander -- Seems like the easiest way would be to attach it underneath the lander can with a stack decoupler, with landing legs long enough that the rover doesn't impact on landing but not so high that it breaks when detached. But I can't figure out how to build the rover as a standalone so that I can save it and use it as a subassembly.

I want to avoid using the RoverMate because that eats up battery life just by existing, and I want a manned rover that won't necessarily die in the dark (I realize that the wheels do use up a small amount of charge while in motion).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 03, 2015, 02:14:27 pm
to land:

you can attach the lander on top, on small gravity bodies at least - you then get back on land using rcs

or you can land on the lander itself, then detach the top part and land it some meters to the side

to test:

don't bother, low gravity will mess up your lander no matter what :P if you really want, you attach a grider with a capsule and a separatron to the rover, spawn it on the runway and decouple at launch. bonus point to make the decoupler the root part so you can get all the lander of as a subassembly.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Generally me on September 03, 2015, 02:38:33 pm
WHY DOES IT KEEP BLOWING UP ON RE ENTRY... I DONT UNDERSTAND.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: warrob on September 03, 2015, 02:56:55 pm
Quote
WHY DOES IT KEEP BLOWING UP ON RE ENTRY... I DONT UNDERSTAND.

Aerodynamics, you are going so fast on re-entry that the friction with air brings the temperature to exploding levels. use a heat shield at the bottom of your craft to protect it and make sure it moves down in the right direction.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 03, 2015, 03:02:06 pm
I generally put the heat shield on top, at least for mk1 capsules. Works pretty well!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on September 04, 2015, 11:03:59 pm
Quote from: RedKing on September 03, 2015, 01:55:17 pm
So does anybody have advice on how to build a manned rover?

Testing: If you can roll your vehicle on Kerbin, it'll be even easier to roll it on a low-gravity body. Most of my rovers feature roll cages and self-righting systems. If you use KAS and plan long-duration roving I recommend carrying spare parts.

My standard test regime (for vehicles with KF wheels) involves swerving across the runway trying to amplify oscillations, hard maneuvering while driving cross-grade on slopes, driving into the Administration Building pond, taking jumps off the launchpad and powering over the inevitable results of previous tests obstacles. I've stopped doing much righting-system testing because something that's underpowered on Kerbin can still send the vehicle flying on the Mun.

Source: drove about 200 km on the Mun in a top-heavy giant rover; went up, down and across insane slopes at dangerous speeds, flew two servicing missions so far to replenish spare parts.

(I promise I only drive like a maniac in KSP!)

Delivery: Before I installed mods and started building 40-ton wheeled monstrosities, I was building lightweight stock rovers. After I failed to construct a working Sojourner-style deployment system, I tried the same rover delivery concept you're using, but I had a hard time getting that height compromise right with the fragile stock wheels and I've since switched to using skycranes. LoS boccacc's advice about subassemblies is good and sane, but for an insane rover delivery system I like my Harpy family of launch vehicles, where I drive the payload out to the pad and attach it with a claw.

I briefly flirted with making the rover and the lander be the same vehicle and I'm leaning that way again now that I'm finally planning a crewed interplanetary mission. On a whim I tried putting wheels on my Duna Ascent Vehicle prototype; a few hours later it had turned into something that looks like an IRBM transporter/erector/launcher.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 07, 2015, 01:28:45 am
I think I'm finally ready to commit to a full scale Mars mission (assuming 1.1 doesn't come out too soon), but first I need to send a probe to get some information. So here it is, Medjay 1:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention to the terrain and ended up coming down on top of a mountain. The lander was only a few hundred meters off the ground when I finally noticed. I desperately jettisoned the aeroshell and heat shield and throttled the landing engines. The heatshield was shot downward by the decoupler, but then it shot back up due to its high drag, slamming into the lander and completely destroying it. The aeroshell, still connected to the drogue chutes, was the only part that made it to the surface intact. I would have liked to make the landing, but I got all the information I needed, so I'm not too disappointed.

Also, I'm getting a weird glitch where the martian terrain just disappears when I'm in the atmosphere at a certain altitude but reappears lower down. I'm not using any of the environmental mods. Anyone ideas on what's causing it?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on September 16, 2015, 12:44:20 pm
I'm finally able to reliably get stuff up into LKO and get it into a stable orbit of my choosing!  :D Okay, so this is the very, very short end of the wedge, but it's an achievement that I've never managed to get down fully before.  Currently starting to get the rescue-a-kerbonaut missions, so should be able to do those without too much difficulty, hopefully (and am combining my first one with a take-a-tourist-into-orbit mission, because why not?)

My only issue now is that my heavily modded game keeps crashing on a semi-regular basis when switching back to the space centre.  Never loses any data (it obviously completes the autosave before it crashes), but it's a pain to keep having to restart KSP.  Oh well, I'll live with it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 16, 2015, 06:27:48 pm
So getting off to another rocky start with my hypermodded GRAND CAMPAIGN. While this time I've avoided losing 30 pilots to lawndarting (though Jeb is dead, because Jeb is always dead) I'm now having a hell of a time trying to make a murderbot with remotetech and bdarmory. Or just trying to get a plane in the air now that I think about it.

Though mostly I'm having issues with the damn antenna's I need to use probes being ripped off if I go faster then a fucking go cart, even if they are LITERALLY INSIDE THE HULL. Hopefully the antenna's later on will be better about this because otherwise this is going to have to be a 100% manned game, as getting into the air with these fuckers intact is literally impossible.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on September 18, 2015, 06:13:44 pm
Planes are difficult.  :-\  Even having watched Scott Manley's (excellent) YouTube videos on how to build an aerodynamic aircraft, I still can't get the damn thing to be particularly stable.  I mean, it flies and it'll do a straight line pretty well, but turning is a bit of a risk.   :P  Also, flying anywhere in an aircraft seems to take aaaaages.  I had a mission to explore near the northern polar region of Kerbin, spent a while building an okay-ish aircraft, started to fly up there...and then gave up, built a cheap disposable rocket and just launched the thing on a suborbital trajectory so that it was 'flying' over the region it needed to be over shortly before it crashed/landed/was recovered.

Planes are difficult.  Rockets are easier and faster.  This may simply be because I'm crap with planes.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 06:30:25 pm
Well this isn't "planes are hard" this is "the wings literally don't seem to provide lift"

I'm not sure if this is a result of my weird modlist, or just some quirk of the latest KSP version I haven't figured out yet, but I've had plenty of planes that work amazingly in the past, so I have a good idea of how this SHOULD be working, but for unknown reasons its really REALLY not.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on September 18, 2015, 06:59:07 pm
Wings don't provide lift. They never have. Not the real-world concept of lift.

In the real world, (most) wings have an upward curve in them. This curve means that air passes more quickly over the top than under the bottom. Higher speed fluids have a lower pressure, which means that the air basically pushes wings up to compensate for the pressure differential.

In KSP, wings do not have a curve. They are flat, which means that the only way they can generate upward force is an angle of attack against the air.

This essentially means that the way to get your plane to fly straight and not fall is applying an angle of attack to construction, or just keeping an upwards angle when flying in general.

I'm not sure if there are any mods that fix this. Honestly, I'm not even sure whether or not they've changed the wings since the last time I've played, which was actually a little while ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2015, 07:03:46 pm
They way overhauled aerodynamics a bit before 1.0
Now lifting bodies are modeled far better than they were before.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on September 18, 2015, 07:13:47 pm
The wings are still flat, though, and still act as such. I've played since 1.0, so unless they changed it within the last... 2 months, wings still behave as flat planes that require an AoA, real or artificial, to function.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 08:01:10 pm
That's just it though, the wings I'm using don't work, angle of attack or not.

I literally had more altitude control with a rocket car.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 18, 2015, 08:39:43 pm
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on September 18, 2015, 06:59:07 pm
In the real world, (most) wings have an upward curve in them. This curve means that air passes more quickly over the top than under the bottom. Higher speed fluids have a lower pressure, which means that the air basically pushes wings up to compensate for the pressure differential.
That's not really correct. Most of the lift in such wings comes from flow turning, not pressure differentials, same as if they were angled flat wings. The Bernoulli lift explanation is a massive oversimplification if not outright wrong in most ways, and I find it frustrating just how prevalent it is.

In KSP, the flat wings are an acceptable tradeoff since they allow you to make a large wing out of several smaller wings and still have your plane (generally) behave as expected. Also, rocket fins. Curved wings would be very bad for those.

Also, I don't think most people know this, but you can adjust trim with Alt + Q/W/E/A/S/D. You can use it to get a plane neutrally balanced, among other things. It's pretty handy. Alt + x resets everything to their default positions.


Quote from: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 08:01:10 pm
That's just it though, the wings I'm using don't work, angle of attack or not.
Have you checked the aerodynamic force indicators (f12) to see if they're actually working? I remember hearing about a bug where wings would just not generate lift for whatever reason. I think blue is the indicator for lift.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 18, 2015, 09:11:05 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 08:01:10 pm
That's just it though, the wings I'm using don't work, angle of attack or not.

I literally had more altitude control with a rocket car.

Do you have control surfaces?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 10:01:35 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on September 18, 2015, 09:11:05 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 08:01:10 pm
That's just it though, the wings I'm using don't work, angle of attack or not.

I literally had more altitude control with a rocket car.

Do you have control surfaces?
Yes

I'll have to take NGN's suggestion and look at it in debug to be sure its not working, but generally when taking the wings OFF gives more lift then leaving them on I assume things aren't working right :P

And before you ask yes the lift is going in the right direction. Wasn't in the first iteration, but fixed that before coming to you guys with the post
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on September 19, 2015, 03:16:48 am
Yeah, planes are really slow, you're not alone in that.
All you can do is build a super stable plane, put it on physwarp 4 and alt-tab out, it seems.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 19, 2015, 03:25:57 pm
Well this is frustrating. Preparations for my grand Mars mission have been going well, and I would be sending my first supply mission with a backup Mars Ascent Vehicle, but there's a problem with the crew return capsule that I want to fix first. Specifically, the heat shield randomly stops protecting the capsule during reentry. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it. Repositioning it, using a procedural heat shield instead, even resizing it to twice the diameter of the pod, nothing works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 19, 2015, 10:15:55 pm
Well, after looking in debug the plane wings are generating blue lift upwards, and the control surfaces generate downward yellow...whatever. Not sure if that's normal, maybe the solution is that I'm using TOO MANY control surfaces. That or the thing's just too damn heavy, that's always a possibility.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mini on September 19, 2015, 10:22:04 pm
Post a screenshot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 19, 2015, 11:33:45 pm
Spoiler:  The craft (click to show/hide)

Spoiler:  What it looks like in Debugflight (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on September 20, 2015, 12:27:43 am
Yellow is your control surface lift force.  I'd suggest turning those right-side up.

For reference, copied from the KSP forums:
Blue: Lifting force, wing surfaces
Cyan: Lifting force, body lift
Yellow: Lifting force, control surface
Red: Drag forces

EDIT: "Control surface lift force," not "control force lift."  It's far, far too late for me to be up, apparently. >_<
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on September 20, 2015, 03:17:10 am
Nah he's pitching up look, that should be right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 20, 2015, 07:17:12 am
Right after posting I tried flipping the surfaces upside down, did nothing.
Right after THAT I doubled the size of my wings and controls and then it worked. So...I'm gonna go with "too much weight in that small package"
Also it was really squirrely and the fuel ran out really fast because rocket engine instead of jet engine.

Never quite realized how hard it could be to get to the island runway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on September 21, 2015, 05:45:20 pm
Quote from: BFEL on September 20, 2015, 07:17:12 am
So...I'm gonna go with "too much weight in that small package"

You've basically got an engine with wings.  I can't see how you could build anything lighter that's got more thrust-to-weight ratio and still qualifies as a plane.  Where's your centre of mass on that craft?  I can't recall offhand how heavy the probe core is.  Shouldn't outbalance an engine though, I'd guess.

Do any of your mods change the aerodynamics?  FAR etc?  Not that that should make too much difference either.

Only other suggestion would be larger wings (as you tried), and maybe try slightly angling them upwards at the tips (for stability) and upwards on the leading edge (to pull you up off the runway despite the fixed landing gear).  My last nine attempts crashed and burned horrifically, so I may not be the best person to advise...but hey, my tenth one made it to the island runway and back!  :D
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 21, 2015, 06:02:13 pm
Well its more an engine with communications equipment (remotetech), gun & ammo, large batteries, and wings but point taken. While it might not look all that heavy, its pretty clear its too heavy to lift with the wings I gave it, so mostly I'm giving up on Murderbots till I have better wings and don't have to cram everything into a square meter.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on September 21, 2015, 06:21:18 pm
If you can make really wide wings, they'll help with stability and will decrease your stall speed. They'll have a lot of drag, though, so you won't be able to get very fast.

It's not that big of a deal given how hard it is to get very fast anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on September 21, 2015, 06:32:06 pm
You aren't going to have a whole lot of pitch control if your control surfaces are that close to your center of mass.  No torque.

e: Huh, I read altitude control as attitude control.  One of those days, I see.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 22, 2015, 01:54:34 am
aaand to complicate matter further, if you put too much control surface, they wing under load of the control surface will bend negating their effects

...struts your wing, yo
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 23, 2015, 11:44:25 pm
Ugh, I give up. This reentry problem just refuses to be resolved. Even with three heat shields layered on top of each other, the capsule still randomly overheats. I'm going to have to make a new design from scratch with a different crew pod. FASA has a 6-man extended Gemini passenger compartment with a built-in heat shield which looks promising.

So much for the Ramses II. It was great at every function it was designed to perform, except the one absolutely crucial to the mission.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 24, 2015, 04:39:44 am
What other mods are you using? Are you playing with FAR?

IIRC FAR models the aero more precisely so that if you're even a bit off the correct angle, reentry plasma will slide around the heatshield and heat the command pod as well. I had some problems with it burning off my external stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 24, 2015, 06:26:03 am
Radiatorspam?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 24, 2015, 10:49:01 am
I am using FAR (and all the RO mods), but I'm pretty sure it's not the problem. I can put the capsule at some pretty extreme angles and it will be fine for the most part. Those small cylindrical tanks at the side of it are actually ballast tanks that I can use to shift the CoM and cause a lifting-body effect. Everything will be going fine, but then the pod's temperature will suddenly shoot up, regardless of its orientation. It's like the game briefly stops recognizing that the heat shield is protecting it. I doubt radiators would do much with such a sudden change.

The only other thing I can think of that would cause this behaviour would be a bug in the way tweakscale and procedural parts handle resizing things, which randomly causes the game to think the heat shields have reverted to their default sizes. I may try to mod in a 6m heat shield to test this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on September 24, 2015, 02:01:19 pm
There are bugs in FAR and Tweakscale that cause overheating. There are also stock bugs in the teeny-tiny physicsless parts that cause them to spontaneously overheat as well. There was a mod in the werks for a while that might help you out... lessee... Realheat (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/127769) might fix this up for you. Good luck!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 24, 2015, 05:39:17 pm
I remember in a slightly older version, the Mk1-Mk2 adapter would overheat faster than the rest of the craft. Kinda annoying when, after a several-hours-long trip, the command pod would suddenly find itself relieved of the weight of everything else(including ALL the parachutes :() because the one piece connecting it kinda melted.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 24, 2015, 11:47:38 pm
I am using RealHeat, it's a required mod for Realism Overhaul. Unfortunately, RO still hasn't completely adapted to the new heat system.

So after some further testing, it seems that this problem is not unique to that pod and actually affects all parts and all heat shields. Unfortunately, the pod I was considering with the built-in heat shield is only capable of low Earth orbit reentries. In fact, because of the heat shield bug, no pod is capable of a reentry from beyond low Earth orbit, except maybe the FASA Apollo capsule. It looks like I will have to rework my Mars mission. Instead of a direct reentry from interplanetary space, the interplanetary transfer ship will need to achieve orbit around Earth. This will require a lot more fuel, since an aerocapture is also likely a no-go. On the plus side, it means the transfer ship will be reusable, which is nice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on September 24, 2015, 11:51:17 pm
You could try editing all the capsules to have ablator resource maybe?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on September 25, 2015, 12:00:38 am
I could, but that's only part of the equation. The pod I want already has ablator, but I have no idea what it needs to behave the way I want during high speed reentries, and I don't feel like doing any extensive modding.

Edit:
Quote from: Realism Overhaul Changelog
Fix reentry (oops), DRE Mk1-2 pod heatshield.
Seems like maybe updating might help, but it would probably break some things too.

Doubleedit: Yep, that seems to have done it. I wish I had seen that changelog earlier. I still probably need to redesign the ship, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: fourpotatoes on October 01, 2015, 11:57:05 pm
I've finally succeeded in making an SSTO spaceplane that can deliver a practical payload (in this case, 5000 units, or five Jebuchadezzars, of liquid fuel) to orbit, has sufficient delta-V for rendezvous maneuvers and deorbit with a comfortable margin, and has sufficient control authority to handle docking.

I've learned that practical spaceplanes need crazy TWR, need far fuel beyond the point I'd thought excessive, and need to be going in excess of 1.2 km/s at flameout. RCS Build Aid is also invaluable.

There are nineteen previous SSTO attempts in my saved ships, not including electric-prop (for Eve ascent) & vertical-launch experiments, a turboprop monstrosity, and an orange tank with a Mainsail, wings and cheap landing gear glued on.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 02, 2015, 02:35:15 pm
Strange that you say they need high TWR. There was a big thread about how better spaceplanes have really, really low TWR. I think it was in the stock payload fraction  (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116729-Stock-Payload-Fraction-Challenge-1-0-4-Edition)challenge. On the other hand, congratulations on getting a SSTO spaceplane going. I still haven't done that since the new aero.


EDIT: I might be wrong. This happens.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2015, 02:43:01 pm
otho someone did the math and best ascent is obtained going vertically and with a 2.0 twr - so basically a rocket.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 02, 2015, 05:50:26 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 02, 2015, 02:43:01 pm
otho someone did the math and best ascent is obtained going vertically and with a 2.0 twr - so basically a rocket.
That ascent is optimal regarding energy efficiency, not fuel efficiency. A standard SSTO ascent is pretty energy inefficient, but remember that air-breathing engines are incredibly fuel efficient compared to rocket engines.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 02, 2015, 11:29:16 pm
After some modifications, the Ramses II has made a triumphant return to flight atop a replica SLS block 1B. Despite a few minor issues, the exploration upper stage was able to send it on a flyby of the Moon, followed by the capsule performing a near-perfect reentry.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's competitor, a modified Big Gemini capsule, was deemed unsuitable for Beyond Low Earth Orbit reentries because of some changes with heat shield physics which reduced their ability to protect tall capsules. The crew is certainly happy with the roomier Ramses II, but it does mean that the required payload for the Mars crew transfer vehicle is going to be a bit higher than ideal. Hopefully no more problems crop up and I can start sending supply missions.


In other news, after watching one of Scott Manley's latest RP-0 playthrough videos, I made another attempt at creating a spaceplane capable of orbital reentry in RSS/RO. This odd wedge-shaped craft is what I came up with:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Basically, the idea was to use wings as a heatshield since they have twice the temperature tolerance of any other part. It almost survived reentry unscathed. Everything managed to hold together, except for that nosecone at the front. Unfortunately, that nosecone also holds all the RCS fuel. With no RCS and the centre of mass now shifted pretty far back, the thing became difficult to control. I pitched up a bit too far, stalled, and sent the thing into an unrecoverable tumble. But considering my previous attempts at reentry with a spaceplane, this one was a roaring success. I doubt I'll be able to incorporate the technique into an SSTO, though.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Scott is using modified heat settings, since his craft get nowhere near as hot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Graknorke on October 03, 2015, 03:22:43 am
He has indeed turned the reentry heat down. He mentioned it in the 1st video I think.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on October 05, 2015, 04:17:30 pm
I managed to send the first presupply mission out to Mars this weekend. It's the lightest of my planned three, carrying a backup ascent vehicle and a mapping satellite.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Boil-off for the NTR's liquid methane propellant was a bit more severe than expected, and I had to aerobrake to circularize the orbit. For the other supply missions I should be fine if I just include 25% more methane to compensate for the loss. However, this won't work for the crew vehicle since it is intended to stay in Martian orbit for around 2 years and then make the return to Earth. I'll have to switch to using either water or ammonia as the propellant. Both give lower specific impulses, but they should stay in storage indefinitely.

Right now I need to figure out a good place to land. Ideally, it would be somewhere flat and at a low elevation to make the most of Mars' atmosphere. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on October 05, 2015, 04:18:50 pm
If you are using scansat than you can use its maps for elevation
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on November 09, 2015, 04:39:23 pm
1.0.5 is out.

Time to build deep-sea mining bases.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on November 09, 2015, 05:10:20 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on November 09, 2015, 04:39:23 pm
1.0.5 is out.

Time to build deep-sea mining bases.
WAIT WHUT
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2015, 05:53:59 pm
It does not appear to be around via the installer, so, while I dont know about you steam users, the rest of us need to download a clean install off the website.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kanil on November 09, 2015, 05:57:44 pm
I like the new engines, particularly the small one. Your silly little planes don't have to be rocket powered anymore, and can fly a lot longer as a result.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: then I realize they nerfed crap, and now all my prior designs don't work anymore, and I have to make them all over, and I don't really want to bother, so I don't want to play anymore. I'd just gotten beyond that stage in 1.0, too...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on November 09, 2015, 06:44:29 pm
The new plane parts are indeed awesome, I think the only thing I really did post-patch was sit around making various first generation jets...

Spoiler: ME 262 (Which is FULL COMMUNIST due to my flag being on those wings) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: HE 163 (Which I was surprised at how well it flew) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: De Havilland Vampire (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: AR 234 v21 with shitty E.381 attempt (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Said E.381, its more of a somewhat guided missile, than parasite aircraft (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 09, 2015, 06:46:28 pm
They also added a ton of stock aircraft, including two satellite launching ones.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 10, 2015, 05:47:02 pm
so with the new antenna range stuff (and planetoids blocking LOS?) how much of remotetech is obsolete?  are there any RT players here that can offer a comparison with the new stock?

It sounds like  a new update for RT should be dropping today... so maybe I should be waiting a bit to ask this...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 10, 2015, 07:06:16 pm
Quote from: puke on November 10, 2015, 05:47:02 pm
so with the new antenna range stuff (and planetoids blocking LOS?) how much of remotetech is obsolete?  are there any RT players here that can offer a comparison with the new stock?

It sounds like  a new update for RT should be dropping today... so maybe I should be waiting a bit to ask this...

I'm pretty sure that the antenna range stuff is for 1.1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 10, 2015, 08:06:19 pm
I'm guessing it'll mostly be like RT lite. Didn't it already have something of a sphere of influence, so you had to take the big dish for Eeloo?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Neonivek on November 11, 2015, 03:59:14 am
Should I be questioning why the Space Program isn't very Spacey now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2015, 04:11:07 am
Quote from: Neonivek on November 11, 2015, 03:59:14 am
Should I be questioning why the Space Program isn't very Spacey now?

design by commitee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

departure of NovaSilisko dealt a huge blow to the 'program' part of kerbal space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 11, 2015, 08:28:44 am
I made my most successful aircraft design ever today, which is odd seeing as it's wings are insane and partly on back to front.

Nice and stable to fly with a little SAS help, lands at like 120m/s easily, and takes off quite fast.


(http://puu.sh/lhGFz/2d11dd0539.jpg)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 11, 2015, 10:13:19 am
Quote from: Neonivek on November 11, 2015, 03:59:14 am
Should I be questioning why the Space Program isn't very Spacey now?
What's become less spacey in your opinion?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrRoboto75 on November 11, 2015, 10:15:34 am
Quote from: Neonivek on November 11, 2015, 03:59:14 am
Should I be questioning why the Space Program isn't very Spacey now?

You did get a new rocket engine, that's something.  Should make shuttle design easier.

I also heard the aerospike engine is different somehow?

Edit: there's also a smaller drill to use
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on November 11, 2015, 03:31:26 pm
Quote from: MarcAFK on November 11, 2015, 10:13:19 am
Quote from: Neonivek on November 11, 2015, 03:59:14 am
Should I be questioning why the Space Program isn't very Spacey now?
What's become less spacey in your opinion?
I think he means that the additions are more terrestrial/aquatic in nature rather than spaceflight.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 03:45:30 pm
 Those changes also apply to places like Eve and Laythe, so you can build that underwater laythian mining base.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on November 11, 2015, 03:49:03 pm
to be honest, water changes were needed because they were literally unmoddable up to now. this is pretty hype tbh
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 11, 2015, 04:02:29 pm
I like the idea of space-x style recovery barges, even though there is currently no penalty for just landing in water.

I do wish there was more 'program' though.  The 'firsts' contract series is progress in that regard, but I'm sad they seemed to have dropped the idea of discovering planets through the tracking station.

And I widh the contracts were less random, and built more on existing stations with missions like resupply, ferry civilian scientist, rotate crew, install science module, increase power storage, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: RedKing on November 12, 2015, 12:49:03 am
Started a new career, built a tinyjet using the new Juno engines, and landed it at KSC without a parachute. Didn't exactly land ON the runway, but frankly the grass is more forgiving than a lvl 1 runway anyhow. Still....makes me want to don a pair of Aviators and pop a beer to celebrate.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 12, 2015, 12:56:58 am
Quote from: puke on November 11, 2015, 04:02:29 pm
And I widh the contracts were less random, and built more on existing stations with missions like resupply, ferry civilian scientist, rotate crew, install science module, increase power storage, etc.

Isn't that part of this update?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on November 12, 2015, 05:47:24 am
Quote from: RedKing on November 12, 2015, 12:49:03 am
Started a new career, built a tinyjet using the new Juno engines, and landed it at KSC without a parachute. Didn't exactly land ON the runway, but frankly the grass is more forgiving than a lvl 1 runway anyhow. Still....makes me want to don a pair of Aviators and pop a beer to celebrate.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Any landing where you can use the entire craft afterwards is... one that makes Jebidiah think something isn't being done right.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dennislp3 on November 12, 2015, 10:10:29 am
Quote from: 10ebbor10 on November 12, 2015, 12:56:58 am
Quote from: puke on November 11, 2015, 04:02:29 pm
And I widh the contracts were less random, and built more on existing stations with missions like resupply, ferry civilian scientist, rotate crew, install science module, increase power storage, etc.

Isn't that part of this update?

That was my understanding yes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 12, 2015, 12:59:24 pm
Wow, the change list for contracts sounds pretty cool.  I didn't think this stuff was coming until 1.1

So what was LoSboccacc meaning here?  What programmey parts got dumped?

Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2015, 04:11:07 am
departure of NovaSilisko dealt a huge blow to the 'program' part of kerbal space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 12, 2015, 06:02:43 pm
Quote from: puke on November 11, 2015, 04:02:29 pm
I like the idea of space-x style recovery barges, even though there is currently no penalty for just landing in water.
Apart from the fact water tears your ship to shreds if you land at any decent speed which would be fine on land with decent landing legs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 25, 2015, 08:17:10 am
How do you land things near each other on the same spot, repeatedly? ;-; it's my biggest issue with building Mun bases, I can't land close enough.

Docking in orbit, on the other hand, is really easy.

Maybe I should get mechjeb, I heard it has auto-landing...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on November 25, 2015, 08:51:21 am
my strategy is: first build the whole thing to stand on rover wheels, so that required accuracy is in the kilometers range ( depends on how long I am willing to drive). Then also be sure it can hover reasonably, so that final approach is easier.

Then when I am in orbit at the target body, I use manoeuvre nodes. I plot a course that puts me just beyond the target, then when I am getting close I start the retro burn.

usually gets me a kilometer or so from target, if I didn't bring much fuel for hovering and corrections. but that is why I have wheels. ( that and making sure modules have the same height so I can dock easily)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 25, 2015, 08:57:14 am
Skyrunner: Use map view, then deorbit at a shallow angle so the projected impact is behind where you want to land. Switch to ship view, then time your braking so you land right where you want to land. It helps if you rotate the ship upright (so WASD turns the ship in the right direction), and it also helps to set the landing site as a target, so you can adjust your course using the antitarget marker on the navball.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on November 25, 2015, 09:09:23 am
Well... after multiple annoying things in a row:

(I finally planned-crash-landed my supply probe near the target after like ten tries, but it turns out that the new KAS/KIS means you have to be an engineer and have an electric drill to detach and reattach parts, and I had a Scientist and no drill)
(Also you can't 'dock' two parts with a winch, so my life support supplies were literally 10 meters away from the main ship and I couldn't load them in)
(This was after using the backup thrusters on the probe to drag it along the ground to the target)

... I'm experimenting with mechjeb. Its gravity burn is beautiful, and so is the transfer to Mun. Time to see if it lands as well...

edit: apparently putting too many parts near each other causes spontaneous explosion...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 25, 2015, 11:20:20 am
Quote from: Skyrunner on November 25, 2015, 08:17:10 am
How do you land things near each other on the same spot, repeatedly? ;-; it's my biggest issue with building Mun bases, I can't land close enough.

Docking in orbit, on the other hand, is really easy.

Maybe I should get mechjeb, I heard it has auto-landing...

Mechjeb can often land directly on top of your existing structure. Hopefully it's not a pointy rocket you're trying to land near. Offset the smaller number target by 20 or more.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 25, 2015, 01:27:13 pm
yeah first time I underestimated the precision of 'land at target' and pancaked the rescue expedition on top of the stranded one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 25, 2015, 02:19:57 pm
Mechjeb is a great way to see how it is done. If you want to do it yourself, there's a few different methods. GoSlash27 has a thorough explanation of  one here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104638).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on November 25, 2015, 02:31:35 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 25, 2015, 02:19:57 pm
Mechjeb is a great way to see how it is done. If you want to do it yourself, there's a few different methods. GoSlash27 has a thorough explanation of  one here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104638).

wait, what does this guy mean that the suicide burn is "hugely wasteful of fuel" ???

Isn't the most efficient way to traverse a gravity well (or anything) to burn for as short a time as possible at the endpoints of your journey?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on November 25, 2015, 04:07:58 pm
I believe the thinking is that manual suicide burns are very hard to time precisely, and precision landing is also difficult to achieve. Fixing up afterwards is costly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrewas on November 25, 2015, 04:27:55 pm
He's using an odd defintion of suicide burn - kill your orbital velocity, drop to the surface, then kill that velocity just in time. That method is inefficient. However, suicide burn properly refers to the final maneuver. Its the most efficient method of landing from any trajectory that intersects the ground. Any other method takes longer, which means you're spending more time fighting gravity and have more velocity to burn off overall.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on November 25, 2015, 05:16:30 pm
Manual suicide burns are actually rather easy to time. When you're on a (preferably shallow) trajectory impacting shortly behind the target, go to map view, make a full stop maneuver node directly above the target, and check estimated burn time, let's say it's N. Then just execute the maneuver almost exactly like a regular maneuver, i.e. start burning full throttle towards maneuver node at T minus N/2, adjusting in radial/antiradial direction if you feel like you're falling too fast or too slow. While burning, if you need to land somewhere specific, make sure to constantly adjust your trajectory so it always goes straight over the target in map view, overshooting the target by a bit (the anti-target marker helps). When you can't zoom further into map view, switch to ship view. For the close approach, make sure your retrograde marker stays directly below the anti-target marker. As the anti-target marker approaches the up pole, make your retrograde marker approach the anti-target marker. This way, you should land directly on top of your target. When you're close enough, as usual, land by snapping to the retrograde marker.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 pm
Quote from: puke on November 25, 2015, 02:31:35 pm
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on November 25, 2015, 02:19:57 pm
Mechjeb is a great way to see how it is done. If you want to do it yourself, there's a few different methods. GoSlash27 has a thorough explanation of  one here (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104638).

wait, what does this guy mean that the suicide burn is "hugely wasteful of fuel" ???

Isn't the most efficient way to traverse a gravity well (or anything) to burn for as short a time as possible at the endpoints of your journey?
Not quite, you need to change your periapsis marker to almost intersect with your landing site, which is more efficiently done at the preceding apoapsis, but less accurately so.
Then you need to kill velocity before hitting the ground, the most efficient way of doing that is air braking with or without parachutes. Or lithobreaking. Of course the final braking burn or whatever moves the final periapsis marker which you need to take into account.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LordBrassroast on February 09, 2016, 10:32:15 am
I just started playing yesterday. Jebediah Kerman burned to earth like a North Korean missile and was incinerated along with all his science. Dammit. Valentina! Get in the rocket!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 09, 2016, 08:47:15 pm
This thread needs some life. I've started a new career game with a bunch of USI packs, I intend to make an undersea base on laythe.
Oh and replicate a bunch of stupid shit from youtube, because yolo.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on February 09, 2016, 08:49:31 pm
I really need to play this game again. I still haven't ever gone to another planet
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 10, 2016, 12:07:18 am
I can't replicate are the welding mod Kerbal cloning bug. My Ker-popcorn machine shall go undeveloped.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on February 10, 2016, 01:23:13 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on February 09, 2016, 08:47:15 pm
Oh and replicate a bunch of stupid shit from youtube, because yolo.
How about Scott Manley's Seperator-Launcher? :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 10, 2016, 06:20:14 pm
I've been waiting for 1.1 and 64bit support to start my new career
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on February 11, 2016, 01:42:16 am
Quote from: flabort on February 10, 2016, 01:23:13 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on February 09, 2016, 08:47:15 pm
Oh and replicate a bunch of stupid shit from youtube, because yolo.
How about Scott Manley's Seperator-Launcher? :P
Working on some science!
Anybody know how to make infernal robotics not suck? :(
I'm tying to make a simple free swinging hinge but parts not clipping makes it hard.
I was hoping to be able to set a free swinging washer to only swing in one direction. Or alternatively have one of the IR hinges be unpowered so it would just swing when impacted by a flying Kerbal.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on February 11, 2016, 03:53:29 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 10, 2016, 06:20:14 pm
I've been waiting for 1.1 and 64bit support to start my new career

Same. Is there any idea when it's going to come? I thought it was supposed to hit months ago.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on February 11, 2016, 06:35:35 pm
1.1 is nearing, I think it's actually out in the wild among the experimental testers. Wouldn't be surprised if it still took a few weeks still though, that was a massive undertaking going from unity 4 to 5.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 11, 2016, 06:53:24 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on February 11, 2016, 03:53:29 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 10, 2016, 06:20:14 pm
I've been waiting for 1.1 and 64bit support to start my new career

Same. Is there any idea when it's going to come? I thought it was supposed to hit months ago.
They just pushed the antenna system back beyond 1.1 so probably soonish. I'd estimate 2-3 weeks
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 12, 2016, 08:19:23 am
Quote from: Glloyd on February 11, 2016, 03:53:29 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 10, 2016, 06:20:14 pm
I've been waiting for 1.1 and 64bit support to start my new career

Same. Is there any idea when it's going to come? I thought it was supposed to hit months ago.

they finally fixed the gear key so you need to hit it only once first time, allegedly, and the rest are bugfixes. luckily porting to playstation didn't take development time eh?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on February 12, 2016, 08:34:09 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on February 11, 2016, 06:53:24 pm
They just pushed the antenna system back beyond 1.1

That was a major bummer. 

I can keep using RemoteTech, but they never updated the RT flight computer to be more in line with the new stock autopilot / pilot skills.  And I always felt like the antennas and cores never got re balanced against the new versions, so I was looking forward to something that meshed together better with the stock tech tree.

Oh well.  I guess I'll wait until 1.1.5 or 1.2 to really start playing again.  1.1 will doubtless be riddled with bugs related to the major overhaul, anyway.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 12, 2016, 08:51:10 am
they released all previous version download links!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/131906-the-earliest-versions-of-kerbal-space-program/#comment-2404567


I've never played 7.3, having started at 8.x

sadly old forum content is hard to come by, but there were some really good mod back then
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 22, 2016, 06:12:56 pm
"I'll make this maneuver to Minmus and get this craft going. Mun, get out of my way and stop slowing the craft down. I need to pass some time faster than 50x to get a better burn... I know. Let's check on that rover by Kerbal Command. I'll just advance time a bit to get some daylight because the solar panels need to charge the batteries. Then I can do stuff. That's enough time. Why aren't the batteries charging? Status Blocked by Mun. EFFFFFFFFFFF U"
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 22, 2016, 06:46:40 pm
I like to hop on occasionally, build ludicrous aircraft, and crash my kerbals at high velocity.

Also the EVE orbital
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on February 22, 2016, 09:15:05 pm
Fly craft from tracking station and then black screen. Thanks, Kraken. You ate two of my Duna missions and all the money put into them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on February 24, 2016, 01:59:06 pm
I finally made an SSTO which can fly itself to other places beyond orbit unassisted. It has an ore converter and drills so it can fly straight to Minmus, mine up some more fuel there, and then use it to fly all the way to other planets, stopping on moons if it needs to refuel.

If I am finally able to send a spaceplane to Laythe I will be so happy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on February 26, 2016, 07:29:42 pm
I started a new RP-0 game, using the Chinese space centres. Right now it's the beginning of 1958 and Billy-Bobfred has become the first kerbal in orbit, missing the launch of Sputnik but narrowly beating Explorer 1. Of course, my first satellite was launched years ago, on top of a rocket that was basically two V2s strapped together.

However, Billy was not the first Kerbal in space. That honour goes jointly to Jeb and Val, who first flew an X-Plane past the Karman line.

Spoiler: The JX-4 "Arrowhead" after a successful flight (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, they also became the first casualties of the space program when their plane tipped over during landing, clipping the wing and sending it into a deadly tumble.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 05, 2016, 03:57:35 pm
1.1 is in experimentals. This is the Unity 5 migration. Steam will also get a pre-release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 26, 2016, 11:49:40 am
They're doing their 1.1 24hr marathon pre-release thing. Streamers all day.

https://www.twitch.tv/ksptv (https://www.twitch.tv/ksptv)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on March 26, 2016, 12:51:23 pm
It's looking good, can't wait until mods get updated and I can load all of them at once.

Good time to wrap up my RP-0 career too. I just got a manned landing on the Moon with robotic landers heading to Titan and Europa. I think to finish it off I'll try to install Principia and probably set my computer on fire.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on March 29, 2016, 02:23:03 pm
Any minute now...

I'm actually much more enthused about this update than the previous one. Especially since having a much higher mod ceiling, and the fixed UI. Some of my most long-standing issues with KSP are the wiggly apoapsis markers.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 29, 2016, 02:35:49 pm
Also, having two orbital trajectories rapidly switching back and forth.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 29, 2016, 04:37:38 pm
Why does Kerbal only ever update when I'm in the middle of a campaign? Its like the devs just HATE the idea I might actually get somewhere :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 29, 2016, 07:49:57 pm
1.1 Opt-in Beta on steam is available.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 29, 2016, 07:51:59 pm
Aside from some UI and Unity 5 there isn't a whole lot different so you can afford to wait for mods to update.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on March 29, 2016, 09:11:34 pm
Went out for a sandbox test flight to the Mün and back. Apart from some horrible LoD issues when approaching Kerbin and some camera shenanigans during reentry, everything went great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 29, 2016, 10:56:47 pm
Is 64 bit working now?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on March 30, 2016, 12:13:39 pm
It's still beta, but yes, 64 bit seems to be working just great. I haven't experienced anything game breaking so far, but it is still beta, and there are still the normal bugs you can expect even within a full KSP release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 30, 2016, 01:02:30 pm
Gah, why won't any of the "Explore X" missions show up?
I've fucking started an interplanetary transfer station but the game won't give me any good reason to use it!

I mean it gives me one or two "make a ground base on *place you haven't been yet*" contracts but nothing REASONABLE.
I just wanna stop by, pick up all the science I can and then gtfo. Silly game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: GrayFox on March 30, 2016, 07:25:26 pm
I'm tempted to opt in for the beta, but I prefer to stick with release version... I dunno...  ???
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on March 30, 2016, 07:54:02 pm
Damn, one of the applicants is named Bilnie, and he's a pilot.

If he had JUST been a scientist I could have had Bilnie The Science Guy.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 30, 2016, 07:55:26 pm
How significant is the performance increase that I've heard all this about?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2016, 08:08:30 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on March 30, 2016, 07:55:26 pm
How significant is the performance increase that I've heard all this about?

Triple and more fps for large stations, potentially. Might get 5 fps where before it would just be a slow slideshow.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on March 30, 2016, 08:49:10 pm
Well, my performance right now is pretty grrrrrrreat since I upgraded my computer. It sounds like it might be close to perfect if that's the case.

I really wish I had the Steam version so I could actually try that out. It sounds glorious.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rilder on March 30, 2016, 11:01:34 pm
Tried out the 1.1 stuff a bit, seems alright but oof they really need to go back to the pre 1.1 UI scaling. The Navball particularly is so huge that I think it's gravitational pull is affecting flight trajectories.  There is a UI scaling option but it basically ends up making the text unreadable and blurry.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 31, 2016, 02:16:40 am
Holy moly ckan already understand 1.1 and mods are flocking in
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
How come? The navball shows the maneuver delta-v, and any other delta-v calculations only matter in the VAB.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 01:24:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
How come? The navball shows the maneuver delta-v, and any other delta-v calculations only matter in the VAB.
Its pretty important to know how much delta-v your craft has while in flight so you can plan maneuvers you can actually achieve
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 02:06:53 pm
That isn't built into the game yet?  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 02:51:10 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 01:24:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
How come? The navball shows the maneuver delta-v, and any other delta-v calculations only matter in the VAB.
Its pretty important to know how much delta-v your craft has while in flight so you can plan maneuvers you can actually achieve
git gud
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 05:15:58 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 02:51:10 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 01:24:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
How come? The navball shows the maneuver delta-v, and any other delta-v calculations only matter in the VAB.
Its pretty important to know how much delta-v your craft has while in flight so you can plan maneuvers you can actually achieve
git gud
very original, don't strain yourself too much attempting to be witty
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 02, 2016, 05:38:49 pm
 That would be a nice quality of life feature, yes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 05:45:49 pm
Do you guys not plan your flights ahead of launch? Also I recommend a simple spreadsheet for this, one that you can edit in-flight to account for spent and partially spent stages.

(http://i.imgur.com/9KaAxuQ.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 05:47:05 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 05:15:58 pm
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 02:51:10 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 02, 2016, 01:24:22 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 02, 2016, 12:54:09 pm
It's so tough to fly without my delta-v monitor.
How come? The navball shows the maneuver delta-v, and any other delta-v calculations only matter in the VAB.
Its pretty important to know how much delta-v your craft has while in flight so you can plan maneuvers you can actually achieve
git gud
very original, don't strain yourself too much attempting to be witty
In all seriousness I don't understand why you need to be able to see that you have enough Delta V before you leave. There's not really any point in doing it at all if you know before you even start that success is basically garunteed. It isn't like there's much else that can get in your way after all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 05:55:02 pm
Being inefficient?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 02, 2016, 06:27:06 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 05:45:49 pm
Do you guys not plan your flights ahead of launch? Also I recommend a simple spreadsheet for this, one that you can edit in-flight to account for spent and partially spent stages.

(http://i.imgur.com/9KaAxuQ.png)
Isn't that basically exactly what kerbal engineer does?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 02, 2016, 06:45:35 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on April 02, 2016, 06:27:06 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 05:45:49 pm
Do you guys not plan your flights ahead of launch? Also I recommend a simple spreadsheet for this, one that you can edit in-flight to account for spent and partially spent stages.
Isn't that basically exactly what kerbal engineer does?
Engineer and MechJeb. On the fly, even.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 07:04:45 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on April 02, 2016, 06:45:35 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on April 02, 2016, 06:27:06 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 05:45:49 pm
Do you guys not plan your flights ahead of launch? Also I recommend a simple spreadsheet for this, one that you can edit in-flight to account for spent and partially spent stages.
Isn't that basically exactly what kerbal engineer does?
Engineer and MechJeb. On the fly, even.
Yeah, but spreadsheets are updated for 1.1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 02, 2016, 07:13:41 pm
 Still requires work. And a separate program. Its the second program that is my main issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 07:17:08 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 02, 2016, 07:13:41 pm
Still requires work. And a separate program. Its the second program that is my main issue.
How often do you need to check your delta-v that alt+tabbing becomes an issue?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 02, 2016, 07:21:49 pm
 Alt tabbing? Why would I need to alt tab? The games in a window(unless Steam changes that for the poor fools who use it for KSP) and I have a second screen. The need for a second program still aggravates me. Its like using dwarf therapist for assigning dwarves jobs, I dont see why people should feel the need to do that.

 True, its not the perfect comparison (I dont feel the need for dwarf therapist, and I do feel the need to see delta-V), but its close enough to get the idea across, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 08:27:32 pm
I made a nice spreadsheet that calculated (estimated) delta v of each stage etc given the amount of every part in each stage, and it was nice.

Engineer was better - I didn't have to count anything or type anything, etc. It's just automatic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 03, 2016, 08:59:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 05:47:05 pm
In all seriousness I don't understand why you need to be able to see that you have enough Delta V before you leave. There's not really any point in doing it at all if you know before you even start that success is basically garunteed. It isn't like there's much else that can get in your way after all.
Knowing how much delta-v I have left while in flight lets me gauge whether I can achieve optional objectives, like biome hopping on minmus or a quick rendezvous with the space station, or rescuing that kerbal who has been stuck in orbit for 3 years because I never felt like completing the contract.

Basically I don't always stick to my preplanned missions, so knowing what I have to work with is helpful. I get that you can't imagine a scenario where something would go wrong, or you'd screw up a burn and need to improvise, or you might want to deviate from the mission plan but please don't be insulting just because others like to have information available.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 03, 2016, 09:01:25 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 02, 2016, 07:17:08 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 02, 2016, 07:13:41 pm
Still requires work. And a separate program. Its the second program that is my main issue.
How often do you need to check your delta-v that alt+tabbing becomes an issue?
Eh, Engineer is so useful and probably won't take that long to update, so I'm fine with not playing KSP until it's updated (not like I was playing it before the update came out :P)

And really delta-v is only one of the really useful features KE provides. You've also got stuff like horizontal velocity and altitude above ground instead of surface velocity and altitude above sea level.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2016, 09:19:17 am
Honestly, I stopped going to space when they made planes, so I don't need engineer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 03, 2016, 10:01:30 am
Quote from: Japa on April 03, 2016, 09:19:17 am
Honestly, I stopped going to space when they made planes, so I don't need engineer.
I use planes as well, but mostly on other planets. Flying over Eve or Layth is fun and gets you lots of science.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: IronTomato on April 06, 2016, 05:58:04 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 03, 2016, 08:59:37 am
Quote from: IronTomato on April 02, 2016, 05:47:05 pm
In all seriousness I don't understand why you need to be able to see that you have enough Delta V before you leave. There's not really any point in doing it at all if you know before you even start that success is basically garunteed. It isn't like there's much else that can get in your way after all.
Knowing how much delta-v I have left while in flight lets me gauge whether I can achieve optional objectives, like biome hopping on minmus or a quick rendezvous with the space station, or rescuing that kerbal who has been stuck in orbit for 3 years because I never felt like completing the contract.

Basically I don't always stick to my preplanned missions, so knowing what I have to work with is helpful. I get that you can't imagine a scenario where something would go wrong, or you'd screw up a burn and need to improvise, or you might want to deviate from the mission plan but please don't be insulting just because others like to have information available.
Sorry, I was never trying to insult you.

(Also sorry about not acknowledging that those things can happen, I didn't really think of that.)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 06, 2016, 06:36:00 pm
I made a working Orion-Drive plane. The best part is the rover-seat cockpit; you have to fly VERY cautiously in order to keep the pilot from melting. Nonetheless I was able to put Jeb into orbit despite the lack of gyroscopes and rcs.

Depending on the size of the NPUs, the vessel can experience shock heating while it's still on the runway, and it takes only three seconds to reach the end from launch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 06, 2016, 10:45:07 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 06, 2016, 06:36:00 pm
I made a working Orion-Drive plane. The best part is the rover-seat cockpit; you have to fly VERY cautiously in order to keep the pilot from melting. Nonetheless I was able to put Jeb into orbit despite the lack of gyroscopes and rcs.

Depending on the size of the NPUs, the vessel can experience shock heating while it's still on the runway, and it takes only three seconds to reach the end from launch.

I kind of want to see a picture of this.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 07, 2016, 12:03:50 am
Heck, this weekend I'll record some test flight videos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Anvilfolk on April 09, 2016, 01:19:38 pm
So, just in case people are as clueless as I am, you can get 1.1 from Steam by opting into a public beta!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 10, 2016, 01:37:02 pm
Just corrected a hilarious design mistake in the transfer station I'm building to go to Duna/Ike.

Specifically, since the main engine runs on pure liquid fuel, I didn't think to put in oxidizer to refuel the lander stage.
Thankfully I noticed this now, before I had launched/docked everything else.
This allowed me to correct a SECOND mistake in the design, specifically that it had insufficient radiators for the transfer stage, so I built a small strut section with a fuel tank and a buttload of radiators.

Woo!
Now I just have to figure out how to get all these things docked together without DROPPING THE THING BACK IN THE ATMOSPHERE. Thanks simulations, thanks for showing me how horribad I am at rendezvous.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 10, 2016, 05:17:03 pm
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 06, 2016, 06:36:00 pm
I made a working Orion-Drive plane. The best part is the rover-seat cockpit; you have to fly VERY cautiously in order to keep the pilot from melting. Nonetheless I was able to put Jeb into orbit despite the lack of gyroscopes and rcs.

Depending on the size of the NPUs, the vessel can experience shock heating while it's still on the runway, and it takes only three seconds to reach the end from launch.

What mods did you need for that?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 10, 2016, 07:11:56 pm
I don't remember, it stopped working and now the wings fall off whenever I launch it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 11, 2016, 04:19:11 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 10, 2016, 07:11:56 pm
I don't remember, it stopped working and now the wings fall off whenever I launch it.

they tweaked join strength and there's a bug on the wheel collider on top of it, but they're aware and they said it's gonna go away as the next update comes around
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 13, 2016, 04:50:12 pm
So due to a bunch of technical issues I can't post the challenge I came up with on the KSP boards, so I guess I'll just post it here instead.

The challenge is to get as close to space as you can with deployed chutes the whole way. Originally the idea was to make orbit like that, but I have decided that is literally impossible.
I made it to about 6000 meters before all the fails happened.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on April 13, 2016, 04:52:27 pm
Betcha someone here makes it to the Mun and back that way. :P
Not me, I already had my computer crash today from overheating. I do need to clean out the fans again, but even more I need a replacement computer.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 13, 2016, 05:34:58 pm
Quote from: flabort on April 13, 2016, 04:52:27 pm
Betcha someone here makes it to the Mun and back that way. :P

iirc someone went to the moon and back with parachutes out back when parachutes worked in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: itisnotlogical on April 13, 2016, 06:04:29 pm
One challenge idea I had was to set a speed record while going into space, beginning when you start to see atmospheric heating and ending when the game changes camera angles and plays the music. Bonus points if you can manage a mostly-vertical ascent.

This is inspired by an incident where an extremely small craft (I think it was just a capsule with an SRB underneath it) was going so fast that it basically smacked into the atmosphere and exploded.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 19, 2016, 10:19:08 pm
And 1.1 is out.

I haven't had very long to look at it, but it appears to run better than before. The game was updated to run on Unity 5 which helps performance a lot.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 19, 2016, 11:15:56 pm
Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 19, 2016, 10:19:08 pm
And 1.1 is out.

I haven't had very long to look at it, but it appears to run better than before. The game was updated to run on Unity 5 which helps performance a lot.

Good, it's doing everything it is supposed to. This was a unity update and that's almost it. Some part info in flight updates, but mostly 5 and x64 windows.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on April 20, 2016, 12:20:08 am
I thought 1.1 was supposed to come with a bunch of other features? It seems kind of lackluster for something that's taken 11 months or so to come out unfortunately. I get that migrating the codebase to Unity 5 is a big project, but it seems like kind of a letdown after that wait.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 20, 2016, 12:22:18 am
 Well, wheels reworked, a few QOL features, new UI, I think a trio of new parts... and something that caused my game to crash with a fresh install after about... twenty min of playing?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 20, 2016, 01:40:45 am
Quote from: Glloyd on April 20, 2016, 12:20:08 am
I thought 1.1 was supposed to come with a bunch of other features? It seems kind of lackluster for something that's taken 11 months or so to come out unfortunately. I get that migrating the codebase to Unity 5 is a big project, but it seems like kind of a letdown after that wait.

all internal stuff. better wheel physics is the major, apart from windows 64 bit support. all the other things have been postponed, but you can have a cutaway of cockpits now that gives you a one-two directly to the framerate
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 20, 2016, 01:52:23 am
 The big-ole heatshield of awesomeness is new.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: flabort on April 20, 2016, 02:40:02 am
So mostly internal stuff.  :P
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 20, 2016, 03:48:54 am
Theres also a new comms dish, and other things I probably missed.
 Also, I am now wondering if Flabort is also known as the Bagel Rabbit... which is really itching at my brain....
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 20, 2016, 07:10:09 am
Quote from: Aseaheru on April 20, 2016, 03:48:54 am
Theres also a new comms dish, and other things I probably missed.
 Also, I am now wondering if Flabort is also known as the Bagel Rabbit... which is really itching at my brain....
Since all comms dishes are exactly the same atm its kinda pointless to make a new one :P

And WHY WOULD YOU BE WONDERING THAT??
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 07:40:43 am
I've never understood why there are multiple comms items and the later ones are heavier and yet worse (iirc).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 20, 2016, 07:50:03 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 07:40:43 am
I've never understood why there are multiple comms items and the later ones are heavier and yet worse (iirc).


spiegone:
http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/124741707054/daily-kerbal-bonus-article-development-relay
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2016, 08:53:02 am
If you use the mod that makes probes have to have relayed wire contact, the higher tier comms items are definitely all different and useful. Dishes are direction and the longer the range the smaller the arc, so you can't just slap the highest tier on everything because if you're on Mun or Minus to Kerbin, it's kinda useless :P The antenna ones are all-directions but quite short range, the highest tier one covers all of Kerbin's gravity field, I think.

edit: I'm kinda disappointed that they decided the stock antenna system will entirely remove the aspect of communications relay management :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 09:38:01 am
According to that, you can just put it on hard?

Also, what version is that going to be in if it's not in 1.1?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 20, 2016, 10:17:35 am
They did not announce what version the communications network changes would be in, only that they pushed it out past 1.1.

There are still nightly builds of RemoteTech on Github, so it looks like that will continue to be supported.  That is probably the best "communications network" mod out there, and in it's current form is more detailed than what they described would be in available in stock.

I do have a complaint about it though:  the most advanced antennas are omnis, with greater range and less power draw than some directional. 

I would prefer to see the higher range antennas be directional, and only the lower range ones be omni, with power draw proportional to range and coverage.

I understand that they may be using omni as an emulation of highly directional with the computing to dynamically shift targets... but... it just irks me somehow.  Like that kind of abstraction does not fit with the way the rest of the simulation is simplified and presented.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 20, 2016, 10:43:32 am
As long as they work in a decent map that lets me know the coverage and whats going on, that would be great.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 20, 2016, 12:22:05 pm
Have you used Remotetech?  It has some good connectivity and coverage overlays for the solarsystem map.  Gets crowded as you have very large networks, but it does the job pretty well.



On an unrelated note... Are the "world first" awards gone?  I'm not getting the achievements / prizes for speed and altitude records in 1.1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on April 20, 2016, 01:20:39 pm
No, they are there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 20, 2016, 02:32:52 pm
I'm liking this version. It's running better than before, and hey, free substantial updates after the 1.0 is almost unheard of.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on April 20, 2016, 05:30:04 pm
Hmm, took a look at it since I wasn't aware it had actually updated or not(there was nothing in my download history). It did. Is it just me, or do textures look a little... shiny? Possibly less detailed?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: alway on April 21, 2016, 12:25:43 am
Quote from: Akura on April 20, 2016, 05:30:04 pm
Hmm, took a look at it since I wasn't aware it had actually updated or not(there was nothing in my download history). It did. Is it just me, or do textures look a little... shiny? Possibly less detailed?
I think they moved to Physically Based Rendering. Which is basically a bunch of rendering techniques for making materials based on realistic settings. As a result, you can get metals that look like metals, complete with the shininess. As for the different look, a lot of it probably comes from that changeover. Though it looks like they're keeping most of the art style the same with it.

Also, the default graphics settings appear to have textures at half-rez, so you could try turning those up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2016, 02:19:24 pm
psa: previous safe chute open altitude of 350mt is now unsafe, mk16 takes about 650mt to deploy and slow down the capsule to acceptable levels


some kerbals were sacrificed to bring you this information ::)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 21, 2016, 02:49:43 pm
I haven't played in a while, but it seems like straight up-and-down trajectories are very deadly now.

I used to test parts by packing just enough fuel to launch them straight up to their test altitudes.  For sub-orbital 100km+ trajectories, this can be very painful.

A pod might survive the heat on its own, and a heat shield will protect any science components you are bringing back... but there just isnt enough atmosphere to slow you down to a speed where a drogue chute wont shear off before you slam into the ground.

I brought Val back from a 250km trajectory, and used a retro-rocket to slow to an acceptable speed such that I could open the drogues at 3km and got the main chute open just under 1km.

Probably the preferred method would be to re-enter at an angle, but that means hauling more fuel, more cost, landing further away from KSP and less recovery value...

Or maybe it wont be an issue once I have larger rockets with greater surface area... or airbrakes...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 21, 2016, 02:54:07 pm
Doesn't re-entering at an angle use less fuel than going straight down, assuming a circular starting orbit?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 21, 2016, 03:05:47 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on April 21, 2016, 02:54:07 pm
Doesn't re-entering at an angle use less fuel than going straight down, assuming a circular starting orbit?

right, yes.  I was talking about part-test launches, which are often up-and-down.  no orbit involved.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on April 21, 2016, 03:12:09 pm
Ah, right, the reference to Val made me think of a rescue contract, my bad.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: AlStar on April 21, 2016, 08:29:55 pm
Apparently I haven't played in far too long (not since before they added in re-entry heat and breaking 'cutes) - I'm trying to get 4 VIPs up to 70k (not difficult) and back down in one piece (not working so well.) I can't seem to lose enough speed to deploy the parachutes before the ship is so close to the ground that the parachutes are unable to actually slow me down. I've been trying to fly a more angled ascent, but I can't say it's been terribly helpful.

Current thought is to take up a small booster so I can execute a retrograde burn, but I'd love to hear other advice.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on April 21, 2016, 08:57:49 pm
A spare retrobooster/saving some fuel for braking burn is about the best idea I can think of. Maybe try a high-altitude plane if possible. Use normal airjets to get up as high as you can before firing off LF/O or SF boosters to hit the target altitude at a pretty forward angle. The transition between the two should be where it's hardest to control.

Also remember that you don't have to take every VIP at once... though doing so is generally far more cost-effective.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on April 21, 2016, 09:02:39 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on April 21, 2016, 02:19:24 pm
psa: previous safe chute open altitude of 350mt is now unsafe, mk16 takes about 650mt to deploy and slow down the capsule to acceptable levels


some kerbals were sacrificed to bring you this information ::)

Deploying has gotten worse? I used to come screaming in straight down Kerbin polar out of Minmus and have about 50m to breathe heavily before touchdown at 5m/s. The 400m before that was ohmygodohmygodohmygod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on April 21, 2016, 09:04:05 pm
Is it bad that I lost interest in the new version and quit to read a book before I had even launched a rocket? I put two on the launchpad, unlocked two techs from reports etc at ground level, and then remembered the shape of things to come* and quit.

* = With regard to the science grind around KSC especially, but also remembering that there was nothing to look forward to in trying to travel to other planets save frustration.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: JWNoctis on April 21, 2016, 11:37:18 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on April 21, 2016, 09:04:05 pm
Is it bad that I lost interest in the new version and quit to read a book before I had even launched a rocket? I put two on the launchpad, unlocked two techs from reports etc at ground level, and then remembered the shape of things to come* and quit.

* = With regard to the science grind around KSC especially, but also remembering that there was nothing to look forward to in trying to travel to other planets save frustration.

After doing the same thing at least 3 times over to various degree since Career came out, I'm on the same boat here. In fact I've already spent 1.0-1.05 building nothing but replica gliders and fighters except for maybe a single spaceplane that looked awfully like a MiG...Heresy, I know, but things are feeling a bit spent there.

Maybe I should go find a few good mods again, when they catch up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 22, 2016, 12:21:41 am
Sounds like you need to get rid of the grind by starting straight in sandbox or with loads of money and starting science, grab some good kids and start colonising other planets.
I stopped playing after making my second rocket, I'm sure it used to be harder to get into orbit than just putting a bunch of the smallest tanks onto the first liquid engine. I guess I need a tech tree reorganisation or maybe I'll just nerf power values to add some difficulty. Also the world first bonuses gave me too much starting cash. I wonder if Kerbal Construction Time is updated for 1.1 yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 22, 2016, 12:29:19 am
Regarding the problems with coming straight down from suborbital flight, I found the only way to deal with it, besides going sideways, is to do a burn to slow yourself down enough to use the chutes.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on April 22, 2016, 11:20:39 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on April 22, 2016, 12:21:41 am
Sounds like you need to get rid of the grind by starting straight in sandbox or with loads of money and starting science, grab some good kids and start colonising other planets.
I stopped playing after making my second rocket, I'm sure it used to be harder to get into orbit than just putting a bunch of the smallest tanks onto the first liquid engine. I guess I need a tech tree reorganisation or maybe I'll just nerf power values to add some difficulty. Also the world first bonuses gave me too much starting cash. I wonder if Kerbal Construction Time is updated for 1.1 yet.

Yeah, I did Career once a few versions ago, and I'm not so inclined to go through the same progression again. So my solution for that was to start in Career mode and then edit my savegame so to give myself plenty of science points. That way I can build whatever I want, only paying attention to funds and contracts, which provide a nice bit of structure.

Pure sandbox is somewhat less interesting, and being limited by science is one restriction too many, from my point of view: the current implementation of the scientific aspect isn't particularly fun.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on April 22, 2016, 01:02:57 pm
I dont mind when I can send micro-landers to minmus and finish out 95% of the tech tree, or get a couple thousand by sending a ship to tour the jool system.

It is grinding those first couple thousand points on and near Kerbin that is the painful chore, to make those intermediary missions possible.

Fortunately, career mode is fairly customizeable and you can start with a huge ammount of science out of the gate.  Or change the rate of return on science points...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on April 25, 2016, 11:15:52 am
I have a ship design question.

The way I design my very early ships is the basic 1-kerbal pod and a Science Jr right underneath it, usually with a heat shield on the bottom.

The problem is, the Science Jr isn't heavy enough to keep the ship pointed in the right direction. Center of mass is too high, so the heat shield ends up completely useless... and my ship ends up burning away in reentry.

How do I mess with the center of mass to make sure my ship goes in shield down?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 25, 2016, 11:41:31 am
Doesn't SAS help?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on April 25, 2016, 11:45:54 am
Add another Science Jr.?

Because "moar thrusters SCIENCE" is a perfectly valid answer, right?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 25, 2016, 11:48:39 am
Quote from: TheBronzePickle on April 25, 2016, 11:15:52 am
How do I mess with the center of mass to make sure my ship goes in shield down?
I suggest putting the heat shield on top instead of on the bottom. You have to be careful during reentry though, since the Science Jr burns up very easily if you don't have the ship pointing exactly straight forward, more so if you have multiple Jrs.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2016, 12:02:26 pm
Make sure you remove all the monoprop they ship with the capsule. You could also try balancing the science jr. on top of the capsule and the parachute on top of that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: TheBronzePickle on April 25, 2016, 12:14:42 pm
I didn't think monopropellant could weigh so much.

That should help a little, though I've found another, slightly more crude solution in double-stacking heat shields.

As for using SAS, I probably should put one on there when I've got my scientist going up, but I don't think I've researched it yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 25, 2016, 12:16:23 pm
No, the capsule SAS. IIRC capsules have their own, if comparatively useless and shitty, inertia roller-things.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2016, 12:21:54 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 25, 2016, 12:16:23 pm
No, the capsule SAS. IIRC capsules have their own, if comparatively useless and shitty, inertia roller-things.

They only work when operated by a qualified pilot unless you've got a probe core on there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 25, 2016, 12:22:49 pm
I know. Is there a reason the pilot wouldn't be in the pod during reentry...?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2016, 12:33:15 pm
Quote from: Sentient Bowtie on April 25, 2016, 12:22:49 pm
I know. Is there a reason the pilot wouldn't be in the pod during reentry...?

If he's a scientist or engineer, he's more of a payload than a pilot. He's just barely qualified to steer, let alone turn on and off the SAS.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on April 25, 2016, 12:46:31 pm
I think it's more that there's no automated SAS in the pod. It's jeb doing the corrections manually unless you get the sas module installed.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on April 25, 2016, 01:20:33 pm
I tried to carry out some test flights on a brand-new sandbox game, with a handful of mods presumably 1.1-ready, and got four crashes in half an hour.

I gotta give the modders more time. Can't live without stuff like Texture Replacer nor Environmental Enhancements. Other mods I'm using are Kerbal Engineer, Joint Reinforcement, Docking Port Alignment Indicator and Raster Prop Monitor. One of those might be causing the crashes instead, but I thought the first two were more likely culprits, for some reason.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2016, 01:25:08 pm
I wonder if you can view RPMs from outside of the cockpit. And I wonder if the external vessel cameras can see through cutaways. HMMM

Gonna build a camera feedback tunnel.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 26, 2016, 07:57:57 am
Quote from: PTTG?? on April 25, 2016, 01:25:08 pm
I wonder if you can view RPMs from outside of the cockpit. And I wonder if the external vessel cameras can see through cutaways. HMMM

Gonna build a camera feedback tunnel.
Danny would be proud.
Be sure to take screenshots!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on April 26, 2016, 06:08:41 pm
Well that's interesting. When you turn on an external display then leave IVA mode, the cutaway button stops working. IF you turn on cutaways, then jump in and turn on external cameras and jump out, it displays a default texture on the screens.

There's other bugginess too, I don't think this was intended.

Cutaways never, as far as I can tell, appear on external displays.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on April 26, 2016, 09:44:06 pm
Holy shit, they thought of everything...
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: yarr on April 28, 2016, 04:27:25 pm
Aaaand 1.1.1 is out while I still cannot land on the mun :(

Patchnotes
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 28, 2016, 04:48:50 pm
Orbit display flickering is mentioned as fixed trice so I hope they really mean it this time, so that free return trajectories actually return you for free
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on April 28, 2016, 05:25:10 pm
I see they haven't fixed the bug where zooming in using the IVA view also causes the external view to zoom in. Oh well, it's a minor problem. I'm glad the UI scaling is fixed at least.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on April 29, 2016, 06:31:10 pm
Quote from: Greenbane on April 25, 2016, 01:20:33 pm
I tried to carry out some test flights on a brand-new sandbox game, with a handful of mods presumably 1.1-ready, and got four crashes in half an hour.

I gotta give the modders more time. Can't live without stuff like Texture Replacer nor Environmental Enhancements. Other mods I'm using are Kerbal Engineer, Joint Reinforcement, Docking Port Alignment Indicator and Raster Prop Monitor. One of those might be causing the crashes instead, but I thought the first two were more likely culprits, for some reason.
I'm using Kerbal Engineer, Kerbal Alarm Clock, and Environmental Enhancements without many issues in 1.1.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2016, 06:51:56 pm
That's a hell of a patch, I'm very happy about the rescalable UI, the default Nav ball is insanely big.
I noticed a bug in 1.1 yesterday which isn't listed on that log though.
My first craft had 2 goo cans, attempting to leave both cans interface Windows pinned open during a launch would completely break the right click function for all parts.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 30, 2016, 12:44:21 am
It is known since a while and it's related to parts with simmetry, there's a mod to break simmetry in the editor so you can still have things perfectly placed and work around the issue 

Or: for science mod (+scientist on board) so it autocollects everything
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on May 06, 2016, 08:02:41 am
Another crash in 1.1.2, again with compatible mods. No crash log generated this time.

I was testing the Aeris 4A. Finishing the airbreathing portion of my ascent, I press the staging key to switch to the aerospike. It fires. "KSP has stopped working".

It really kills my motivation to get backstabbed like that, especially in a game like KSP, with long missions one doesn't want interrupted in the middle. I had barely taken off, but it makes me dread a similar crash an hour into a mission. Yes, there's quicksaves and all, but still, it's pretty damn jarring and immersion-breaking.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2016, 12:20:09 pm
internet caught up with the ksp drama http://imgur.com/a/XZsT3

nothing new here for people who followed the game from the start.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on May 06, 2016, 12:40:26 pm
I don't get it. 

An ex squaddie may or may not have gotten drunk and posted to a disreputable corner of the internet about his impending departure last year?

The hilarity would be that it is implied that he is taking a better paid job as the manager of a PR team somewhere, yet he would be making such a horrible PR blunder? 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on May 06, 2016, 05:03:35 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 06, 2016, 12:20:09 pm
internet caught up with the ksp drama http://imgur.com/a/XZsT3

nothing new here for people who followed the game from the start.

Apparently this is different drama from https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/4hw5x7/in_regards_to_pdtvs_post_damion_rayne_former_ksp/ ?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Erkki on May 10, 2016, 01:29:40 am
I experienced a pretty bad FPS drop with the patch when controlling or in the vicinity of ships any bigger than 50 parts or so. Lowering graphics settings doesnt seem to help at all so its definitely physics related. Its not mods; I had to drop some of them, including FAR.

Scaleable UI is a good idea but if I make the navball the size I want(its in the middle and HUGE and so takes up a lot of space) all text becomes difficult to read. They also moved mods and resources bar from top right to right, opposite of the staging stack, and its now together with the staging stack is taking up horizontal space I would really like to see the game itself in.

I may need to go full screen to be able to fit all the menus and enough of the game itself but that will not help one bit with the FPS issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 15, 2016, 04:03:50 pm
a modlist geared toward harder: remotetech, tac life support and a more step by step tech tree (+ most the graphical goodies), but also more things to do (SETI, science, contracts etc) and many quality of life mods (docking navbal, surface landing height, etc)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)


ckan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc9e379v8qixyec/favs.ckan?dl=0
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on May 15, 2016, 06:22:35 pm
This is probably gonna get some facepalms, but what is CKAN? I'm GUESSING that its a mod manager of some sort, but could someone explain it to me?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on May 15, 2016, 07:23:32 pm
CKAN (Comprehensive KSP Archive Network probably) is a mod manager and repository and installer all at once. Download a small utility, launch it, pick some mods from the list, and the mods will be installed. It's basically a package manager for KSP mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 16, 2016, 01:53:45 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on May 15, 2016, 07:23:32 pm
CKAN (Comprehensive KSP Archive Network probably) is a mod manager and repository and installer all at once. Download a small utility, launch it, pick some mods from the list, and the mods will be installed. It's basically a package manager for KSP mods.

^ what he said. download link https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN/releases

I'll add one feature: allow to export and import mod list without the need to search/copypaste
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on May 16, 2016, 04:34:22 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on May 15, 2016, 04:03:50 pm
a modlist geared toward harder: remotetech, tac life support and a more step by step tech tree (+ most the graphical goodies), but also more things to do (SETI, science, contracts etc) and many quality of life mods (docking navbal, surface landing height, etc)
I approve of most of this list.

Like that counts for anything.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: jhxmt on June 25, 2016, 01:46:49 pm
Just performed my first kerbonaut rescue mission in 1.1.3.  Got into orbit no problem (which was fortunate, as I was trying out a new craft with a new launcher, so it was a bit...experimental).  Rendezvoused no problem (which I was quite surprised with, because normally I'm rubbish at controlled rendezvous attempts).  Got the kerbal across no problem (free engineer, woo!).  Deorbit burn went without a hitch.

And then I got greedy.  Kept burning to get down quicker, then ditched the final stage engine/tank to allow my heatshield to do its thing.  But of course, shorter entry means less aerobraking, and things got a bit bumpy...

...but I managed to keep it under control, finally getting to parachute-safe speed a mere 4km from the sea.  Whew.  Ditched the heat shield, and put down my landing legs (because why the hell not, even with a splashdown they might take off a tiny bit of the force, right?)

Evidently not.  I was evidently still going too fast, because when I splashed down my landing legs broke off...then the life support tank at the bottom of the stage blew up...and then...so did the hitchhiker can, with my rescued kerbal inside it.  :'(

I was left with just a single command pod with Jeb in it, bobbing up and down forlornly.  I actually Alt-F4'd.  I couldn't bring myself to continue after that shambles.  :(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on June 25, 2016, 01:54:57 pm
Quote from: jhxmt on June 25, 2016, 01:46:49 pm
Just performed my first kerbonaut rescue mission in 1.1.3.  Got into orbit no problem (which was fortunate, as I was trying out a new craft with a new launcher, so it was a bit...experimental).  Rendezvoused no problem (which I was quite surprised with, because normally I'm rubbish at controlled rendezvous attempts).  Got the kerbal across no problem (free engineer, woo!).  Deorbit burn went without a hitch.

And then I got greedy.  Kept burning to get down quicker, then ditched the final stage engine/tank to allow my heatshield to do its thing.  But of course, shorter entry means less aerobraking, and things got a bit bumpy...

...but I managed to keep it under control, finally getting to parachute-safe speed a mere 4km from the sea.  Whew.  Ditched the heat shield, and put down my landing legs (because why the hell not, even with a splashdown they might take off a tiny bit of the force, right?)

Evidently not.  I was evidently still going too fast, because when I splashed down my landing legs broke off...then the life support tank at the bottom of the stage blew up...and then...so did the hitchhiker can, with my rescued kerbal inside it.  :'(

I was left with just a single command pod with Jeb in it, bobbing up and down forlornly.  I actually Alt-F4'd.  I couldn't bring myself to continue after that shambles.  :(

Did something similar. Got Jeb stuck in orbit after riding an Orion drive to orbit (in a rover seat). Rescued him with tens of d-v to spare after a wildly inclined orbit.

One chute snapped free, still came down at 11 m/s. Exploded on impact. If I'd had him EVA he would have survived. I rolled with it; after all, when you ride nukes to space and survive, what else is there do with your life?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: nogoodnames on July 24, 2016, 09:05:57 pm
Quote from: Ispil on July 24, 2016, 06:15:00 pm
So, I've read briefly of the Realism Overhaul mod. What do folks here think of it? Considering getting back into this game now that I have a computer that can run it perfectly.

It completely revitalized the game for me when I started using it. Most of your knowledge will carry over, especially after 1.0. Delta-v, gravity turns, etc. all still work the same. There are just a few differences you need to keep in mind, the most important probably being the lack of throttle on most engines.

That said, things take a lot longer than in stock Kerbal. Just getting into orbit without any slowdown might take 10 minutes or more. If you use time acceleration and your computer can run at full speed, it shouldn't be too bad, but it takes some patience.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on July 31, 2016, 12:43:10 am
Same thing happened to me. I spent hours messing with CKAN and the game kept crashing. Don't feel like messing with it further.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on July 31, 2016, 11:06:00 am
Last time I touched KSP it melted my GPU. 
But within a week I get a new PC so.... 
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on July 31, 2016, 11:18:58 am
Some mod devs nest their mods in a root folder. Ckan does not do this. It's also not great. Just manually place all your mods in.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on July 31, 2016, 11:33:57 am
I've never had a problem with CKAN.

... until I ran it a few minutes ago and, after updating, it started crashing from unhandled exceptions. >:(
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Kruniac on July 31, 2016, 10:48:00 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on July 31, 2016, 11:33:57 am
I've never had a problem with CKAN.

... until I ran it a few minutes ago and, after updating, it started crashing from unhandled exceptions. >:(

Your past eight or so posts about KSP have been salty. You should play something else for six months or so, then revisit the game. It's what I do when I get burned out from a single title.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on August 01, 2016, 09:03:35 am
Quote from: BigD145 on July 31, 2016, 11:18:58 am
Some mod devs nest their mods in a root folder. Ckan does not do this. It's also not great. Just manually place all your mods in.
And this kinda thing is exactly why I spent so much time not using Nexus Mod Manager. Better to know how to do shit yourself.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on August 01, 2016, 10:31:10 am
This is why I play stock. I can just start up the game and deal with the expected bugs and issues.

And CKAN is a piece of crap. Just avoid it. Installing mods is so easy anyway, just stop being lazy. Regardless, that many mods is going to have issues.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 01, 2016, 12:07:50 pm
Quote from: BFEL on August 01, 2016, 09:03:35 am
Quote from: BigD145 on July 31, 2016, 11:18:58 am
Some mod devs nest their mods in a root folder. Ckan does not do this. It's also not great. Just manually place all your mods in.
And this kinda thing is exactly why I spent so much time not using Nexus Mod Manager. Better to know how to do shit yourself.

Nexus is okay for most things but doesn't do skin or skeleton replacements well. Rather, the games don't take that sort of thing well. Most everything else works as intended. You still need to read directions on most Elder Scrolls mods. CKAN would work a bit better if it wasn't so simple in how it figures out versions. What it should do is completely delete a prior version. It should also be able to read a few folders deep. Devs do change folder structure and remove elements as well as adding them or renaming them.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on August 01, 2016, 01:24:37 pm
Of course people should know how to install mods themselves, but when one has 25 mods and just wants to start up a game and play, it's nice to just click a few buttons and have it all happen automatically.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on August 01, 2016, 01:51:10 pm
Yeah. This is my first time using CKAN. I've manually installed for years, but I just didn't feel like hunting down all the mods online and downloading/extracting/installing all of them, mostly because I didn't want to spend the time to do it. But fucking around with CKAN probably took as much time as doing it manually would've, so probably not something I'm going to use again.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 23, 2016, 02:30:39 am
Hm, I'm looking for mod recommendations for KSP. I haven't played it in a year and I never really left Kerbin and its moons, so extra difficulty is eh. Just looking for fun stuff like more parts, maybe an easy atmospheric overhaul, etc.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 23, 2016, 02:53:18 am
USI. All of it. (https://bobpalmer.github.io/UmbraSpaceIndustries/)

Or at least everything you'll like. USI-LS makes the game harder, the rest do not.

Near Future's overall good.

Kerbal Engineer Redux is required.

MechJeb is very good and don't take no shit from people who say it's cheating. It ain't.

Universal Storage is a very nice mod.

If you get UKS, get Extraplanetary Launchpads as well, and delete all of the parts from it except the mallet and survey stake.

Infernal Robotics is fun.

Outer Planets Mod is very nice. I haven't been to any of them yet, but the fact that they're there is great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: dv on August 23, 2016, 03:16:10 am
Quote from: miauw62 on August 23, 2016, 02:30:39 am
Hm, I'm looking for mod recommendations for KSP. I haven't played it in a year and I never really left Kerbin and its moons, so extra difficulty is eh. Just looking for fun stuff like more parts, maybe an easy atmospheric overhaul, etc.
Kerbal Engineer Redux -- shows important ship and orbit information
Transfer Window Planner -- tells you when and how to do interplanetary transfers
NavHud -- projects the navball onto the whole screen for more precise navigation
EasyBoard -- makes EVA boarding a toggle
Stock Bug Fix Modules & StockPlus -- bugfixes etc

Minimum Ambient Lighting -- what it says
Scatterer -- adds fog, ocean shaders, terrain shadows, etc
Distant Object Enhancement -- mostly dims the stars when you're looking at the sun/planets
PlanetShine -- lights up your ship with sunlight reflected from bodies

Kerbal Attachment System -- connect ships with winches, harpoons and magnets
Kerbal Inventory System -- gives kerbals inventories. Enables ad-hoc building
RasterPropMonitor -- puts cool monitors into the ship internals
Procedural Parts -- create your own fuel tanks
Procedural Fairings -- and fairings

Maybe a life support mod. There are a bunch. Snacks is the most forgiving, TAC life support the least

Infernal robotics adds moving parts. Haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on August 23, 2016, 03:59:19 am
I'd say Kerbalism's a bit less forgiving than TAC, though since Kerbalism includes support for TAC the combination of the two is probably the least forgiving available.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 23, 2016, 09:47:17 am
Ignore those life support fools. They are not for you. At least not yet.

It's been a year? Refueling off Kerbin is now a thing. Use something like Extraplanetary Launchpads. Make ships that are already in space.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: puke on August 23, 2016, 10:38:24 am
Wasn't TAC discontinued?

None of the other life support mods ever did exactly what I wanted -- either they included extra features that I wasn't interested in, or they didn't include enough detail to be interesting.

I haven't played since 1.1 I think, waiting for the stock Remote-Tech like features and hopefully a new version of RT its self that improves upon them.  I really liked the comm lag and maneuver planning computer.

Using that maneuver calculator to execute a vacuum landing on thrusters was a real achievement.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on August 23, 2016, 01:44:10 pm
Pretty much all that I'd recommend has been said here, but I'd like to add Custom Asteroids, Distant Object Enhancement, Outer Planets and Near Future to that list. Custom Asteroids overhauls the way asteroids work, Outer Planets adds Kerbol analogues for Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto/Charon, as well as associated moons for the former three. With Custom Asteroids, it livens up the rings of the Saturn analogue. Distant Object Enhancement makes it so you can see the planets in the Solar System from wherever you are, as different coloured points of light, as in real life. Near Future is one I've been playing with recently, adds a bunch of near future parts, engines and whatnot that feel like a logical progression from the endgame stock stuff.

Also, Environmental Visual Enhancements is a must, along with whatever configs for it you prefer. I've been using Stock Visual Enhancements, and it's been pretty decent. The way they did Eve in that mod is gorgeous. And I'll second Forsaken on the USI stuff, it's all great.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: miauw62 on August 23, 2016, 02:40:05 pm
Yeah, I threw together a bunch of visual enhancement mods but they have as consequence that anything dropping away will draw a long, dark line over any shaders to where its shadow is :/

I'll look for the likely culprits.

For now, I've managed to get into orbit but I may cheat myself a million billion cashdollars because I remembered that I don't really find contracts very fun and else I'll be scraping together money with shitty contracts until I can afford EVA and soil samples.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on August 23, 2016, 03:14:09 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 23, 2016, 02:40:05 pm
For now, I've managed to get into orbit but I may cheat myself a million billion cashdollars because I remembered that I don't really find contracts very fun and else I'll be scraping together money with shitty contracts until I can afford EVA and soil samples.

Yeah, I never enjoyed the campaign mode. I've always just fucked around in sandbox making my own missions and building cool shit.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on August 23, 2016, 07:57:30 pm
Quote from: Glloyd on August 23, 2016, 03:14:09 pm
Quote from: miauw62 on August 23, 2016, 02:40:05 pm
For now, I've managed to get into orbit but I may cheat myself a million billion cashdollars because I remembered that I don't really find contracts very fun and else I'll be scraping together money with shitty contracts until I can afford EVA and soil samples.

Yeah, I never enjoyed the campaign mode. I've always just fucked around in sandbox making my own missions and building cool shit.

There are lots of contract pack mods as well as ... hang on. There's a mod that replaces the little building that lets you trade resource x for resource y. Money for science, etc. Let me find the name of that mod.

Found it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/131808-113-strategia-v130-2016-08-08/  Strategia gives you some goals and boosts towards those goals. It still lets you play how you want with some tradeoffs. Contract Configurator and Custom Barn Kit are needed for it. Module Manager, of course.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 17, 2016, 06:14:47 pm
The 1.2 pre-release has been out for 5 days now, and it... actually feels like the game deserves to be called "released" now. I didn't even know I didn't feel that way before, but the new tweakables, ground bases not freaking the fuck out when you load them and parachutes opening when safe instead of as soon as their tweakable conditions are met all make it actually feel complete.

And that doesn't even get into kerbnet, which has all of Remotetech's features but the speed of light (it's even a difficulty option to make probes lose all control upon leaving the network!).

Well, okay, still needs some way to see your ship's frigging delta-V, golly, but other than that it's very good.

EDIT: Also, the new options in general are amazing. Kerbals getting experience in the field is a new difficulty option, you can set how long until missing crews respawn...

also, they fixed this shit (http://gfycat.com/AmusingBackKid)

EDIT 2: YOU CAN TRANSFER SCIENCE BETWEEN CERTAIN PARTS (some probe cores, new science container part) WITHOUT USING A KERBAL HOly sHIT

EDIT 3: i'll stop freaking out over individual changes it's just amazing here's the full changelog (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/147583-12-prerelease-changelog/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on September 17, 2016, 08:51:05 pm
Quote from: Putnam on September 17, 2016, 06:14:47 pm
here's the full changelog (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/147583-12-prerelease-changelog/)
Doesn't load if you aren't logged in? What bullshit is that? Could someone copy-post it please?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on September 17, 2016, 08:52:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on September 17, 2016, 09:04:48 pm
Thank ye very much.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 29, 2016, 04:40:18 am
So I decided to try my hand at modding yesterday.

I made a 42x engine connector plate.

(http://i.imgur.com/rqznFwQ.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on September 29, 2016, 05:37:40 am
Does that overheat?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 29, 2016, 06:12:47 am
Only when slamming ass-first into the martian atmosphere.

I almost made it there in one stage.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Culise on September 29, 2016, 10:01:11 am
Quote from: Japa on September 29, 2016, 04:40:18 am
So I decided to try my hand at modding yesterday.

I made a 42x engine connector plate.

~SNIP~

Good heavens.  N1, eat your heart out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: andrea on September 29, 2016, 10:40:59 am
Considering the number of engines, the timing and the destination, I would look at the ITS ( former MCT), rather than the N1
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 29, 2016, 10:47:35 am
Duna here we come!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 29, 2016, 12:42:19 pm
Heh, time to build a rocket to send Kerbin into Kerbol.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on September 29, 2016, 01:52:51 pm
Made it to Duna, with 97 seats. Only a quarter were filled though.

(http://i.imgur.com/Nmhzd0d.png)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on September 29, 2016, 03:19:30 pm
Quote from: Japa on September 29, 2016, 04:40:18 am
So I decided to try my hand at modding yesterday.

I made a 42x engine connector plate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Link for that? I've just been doing stuff like that with excessive part clipping and it seems to bug out 9 times out of 10.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2016, 01:19:03 pm
Just started playing again.   Grabbed updated versions of a few essential mods and decided my first test would be a general work airplane.  Built it, put some dead weight in the cargo space to test it under a load and flew it to the abandoned airfield.

Great success!  It flew well and made it to the airfield!   I fowled up the landing however and wrecked the plane.  Crew lived through.

So instead of just recovering them I built a crew jet as well.  Flew that out to the airfield, landed beautifully, and loaded up jeb and bill.

Then horribly messed up the takeoff crashing the rescue jet into the side of the airfield hanger in a powerslide that would have made drift racers proud.  Again everyone survived, plane is an insurance writeoff.

I wonder if at this point since I have 3/4ths of my 'space' program stranded on that island I should just start building a mining base there.

Ah KSP how I missed you.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: PTTG?? on September 30, 2016, 01:23:47 pm
Actually that sounds like a fun challenge -- fly an entire base to the island, fuel up a rocket there, then reach orbit. I'm going to try that.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Drakale on September 30, 2016, 02:12:47 pm
Trying out realism overhaul mod pack for the first time, I have to say it's very well done. I barely managed to complete my first satellite in orbit with a mix of american and russian engines. Unthrottelable engines and limited restarts have so much impact on design, you really need to plan ahead more. Hullage is simulated too, I never even knew that was an issue in rocket design before I found out the hard way in the mod.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2016, 06:21:44 pm
The project to rescue the people at the abandoned airfield continued.   I built a lifter helicopter with plans to pick up the remains of their 'rescue' jet and fly it back to the KSP.  Since taking off and landing seem to be a sticking point for me at that airfield.

The helicopter was modeled after a lot of those small remote controlled drones. except scaled up a few hundred times.  It seemed to fly well and I could actually take off with it without doing backflips.  A significant step up from old helicopter designs in the past.

I fly it over to the airfield (using a worrying amount of fuel doing so but it looked like I would still have enough to make it back) and find that helicopters are really really hard to stop once you get them up to speed.  I mean I can stop them from going in one direction easily enough, but it seems like they have a mind of their own and don't really want to stay in one place.

Needless to say I couldn't hover nearly well enough to get the magnetic winch to make with the debris of the jet and eventually strafed into the control tower just fast enough to blow a rotor up and unbalance the whole contraption.  Bob survived by bailing out.  Welp, at least now the whole gang's here.

I can build spaceplanes that get into orbit relatively easily.  Build cars that can reach 100 m/s without exploding into bits, but I can't take a plane from one airport to another without explosions and chaos.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on September 30, 2016, 06:54:18 pm
I am waiting on proper 1.2 release.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 30, 2016, 07:02:00 pm
 So, a quadcopter Greiger?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2016, 07:36:18 pm
Yea was a quadcopter, with a winch underneath.

It also had some forward facing plane propellers too, but that did not increase it's cruising speed like I hoped.   Didn't seem to do much at all.  I turned them off when I noticed I was drinking up fuel like water and didn't notice a significant speed difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Aseaheru on September 30, 2016, 07:48:07 pm
 Gyrodynes(which goolde thinks is not a word) work best when they are mostly plane shaped.

 In other news, i decided to take a lick at developing something VTOL, based off of one of the first synchropters, but with jets instead of rotors.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 05, 2016, 08:07:43 am
with 1.2 about to be release, all the remaining devs jumped ship.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 05, 2016, 08:12:13 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on October 05, 2016, 08:07:43 am
with 1.2 about to be release, all the remaining devs jumped ship.
Not quite. afaik Roverdude is still working on the game and according to someone on Reddit (who knows how reliable that is) they have other coders hired to work on new features coming down the line, including expansions to the base game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 05, 2016, 08:19:51 am
allegedly*, and even then, the know-how is gone.

*it's not like squad has a track record of being forward or allowing people to talk their minds.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 05, 2016, 08:40:43 am
Oh his recent stream Roverdude was talking about how excited he is about the 'new stuff coming'. He couldn't talk about it in detail due to NDA restrictions but he's said he is now the senior coder on the team, he's quite happy with how Squad has treated him, and that the owners have been very caring and supportive of him. "I wouldn't remain here if I wasn't happy with the job"

That leads me to believe that while people are indeed leaving, Squad hasn't stopped developing the game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 08:55:13 am
NDA restrictions? Sounds like they're porting to another console, or to VR, there's not much else you'd need an NDA for.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 05, 2016, 08:57:43 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 08:55:13 am
NDA restrictions? Sounds like they're porting to another console, or to VR, there's not much else you'd need an NDA for.
NDA are pretty standard when a new product is being worked on. There was some allusion to 'expansions', which to me sounds like some kind of paid DLC or expansion. That is just speculation though. I wouldn't mind them porting to a console either, it might bring fresh capital which would allow them to keep working on KSP and implementing new features.

I don't think he'd be excited about 'new stuff coming' if all he meant was porting the game to XBOX or Playstation though
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 05, 2016, 11:18:06 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 08:55:13 am
NDA restrictions? Sounds like they're porting to another console, or to VR, there's not much else you'd need an NDA for.

It's on all the current consoles. What would they port it to?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 11:24:21 am
I don't know, maybe a GBA or the Polybius or something.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: timferius on October 05, 2016, 11:36:47 am
Coming soon to Windows Phone
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 11:48:43 am
Now let's not be unrealistic.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 05, 2016, 11:58:13 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 11:48:43 am
Now let's not be unrealistic.

KSP on the Ouya
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 05, 2016, 12:23:12 pm
They're making expansion packs. (https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/55vz1l/kerbal_space_program_12_loud_clear_release_date/)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 05, 2016, 02:04:41 pm
Quote from: MrRoboto75 on October 05, 2016, 11:58:13 am
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on October 05, 2016, 11:48:43 am
Now let's not be unrealistic.

KSP on the Ouya
Why not the NX?  :P

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be in the works.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Gentlefish on October 05, 2016, 05:56:28 pm
Quote from: Putnam on October 05, 2016, 12:23:12 pm
They're making expansion packs. (https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/55vz1l/kerbal_space_program_12_loud_clear_release_date/)

Looks like a lot of worry about what that means. Some people are happy to throw money at them and their new games/DLC, but others are worried that "omg guys cash grab". I think I sit somewhere closer to the first guys. The company has one great game under their belt and I'd like to see what else they can come up with.

But, I mean, it's one game. I suppose we'll see what happens soon.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2016, 01:36:53 am
the company is a marketing company tho.

the vision is gone, most of the dev team is gone.

there's a modder turned dev and two junior interns, allegedly.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephisto on October 06, 2016, 08:48:16 am
I considered purchasing KSP now that it's apparently effectively complete. Then I read about the working conditions at Squad. I guess I don't need to play it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2016, 08:50:13 am
well, what can I say, it's still a good game

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 06, 2016, 09:23:10 am
I'm torn because the game IS great but if the rumors about working conditions in the company are true, I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to support them by buying the game.

I will say that the game has NO DRM at all so if you know someone who owns it, they can easily give you a copy to try out and see if you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 06, 2016, 09:42:05 am
well we know for certain that working condition never were great to begin with, so the last datapoints mostly substantiate an existing claim


http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/1/27/5338438/kerbal-space-program, "Goya says that when Ayarza is in front of a client he only ever says yes, often leading to short timelines and absurd promises of lavish spectacles. Goya the artist provides the creative vision to pull it out in the end, while the rest of the team at Squad carries the load."

there used to be more stories with Harvester venting out it's frustration about Squad pre-ksp, but the forum burned twice to ashes since then and finding anything is an issue.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on October 06, 2016, 10:13:24 am
There was also that reddit stuff from a confirmed previous dev last year where they went into detail about the shitty conditions at Squad. It's not exactly a rumour at this point, it's been confirmed by multiple people over the last few years.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Vicomt on October 06, 2016, 11:55:11 am
Like has been said on the megathread that's forming on the KSP forums, unless anyone of the developers involved, or Squad come out with a more formal statement, speculation and rumours are just that, and should not be listened to or given credit.

Contract law, Ethics, and general good manners should keep our noses out of their business. and like RoverDude said (and I paraphrase) "no wonder they're not saying anything with the shitstorm of rumours and outright lies going around"

whatever happened, for whatever reason, is their business, not ours. Go enjoy what Felipe created.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on October 06, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
Quote from: Vicomt on October 06, 2016, 11:55:11 am
Like has been said on the megathread that's forming on the KSP forums, unless anyone of the developers involved, or Squad come out with a more formal statement, speculation and rumours are just that, and should not be listened to or given credit.

Didn't the developers already make statements? I seem to recall reading at least one. As for Squad, why would Squad come out and say "we treat our devs like shit!" That would be stupid.

Quote from: Vicomt on October 06, 2016, 11:55:11 am
Contract law, Ethics, and general good manners should keep our noses out of their business.

Frankly, I should think the ethical consideration would be with the people who were paid poorly and treated poorly for their work developing a game which was a massive success. Is it good manners to ignore how poorly a company treats its employees?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Mephisto on October 06, 2016, 01:09:49 pm
Quote from: Vicomt on October 06, 2016, 11:55:11 am
Contract law, Ethics, and general good manners should keep our noses out of their business.

Given my career is as a professional software developer, that kind of makes their business my business. Anything that companies can point to and say "look, these people did the thing, let's do the thing as well" has the potential to affect my professional life.

If it's revealed that nothing negative ever happened, hey, I'll buy the game and put in a thousand hours.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on October 06, 2016, 01:40:55 pm
Changing the subject a bit, how difficult is Realism Overhaul compared to the stock game?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 06, 2016, 01:50:36 pm
it takes over twice as much delta-V to get to low orbit
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2016, 11:27:26 pm
Spoiler: I made a race track. Somehow the struts go crazy. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Egan_BW on October 09, 2016, 01:52:41 am
that just means you need moar strut
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 11, 2016, 08:18:56 pm
Sarbian is not happy. MechJeb is no longer up for download and jenkins dev builds were removed.  :'(

Toadicus is also pretty much out but for vastly different reasons, probably. Someone is picking up some of Toadicus's mods for updates.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:17:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 11, 2016, 08:18:56 pm
Sarbian is not happy.
did he say why?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2016, 10:18:30 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:17:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 11, 2016, 08:18:56 pm
Sarbian is not happy.
did he say why?

Someone asked for MechJeb to be updated despite the previous page having a rather stable download for 1.2. Sarbian said he'd rather delete the mod than read posts like that again. Said someone then challenged him on it.

Here's a backup of a 1.2 version, but it has some problems with Smart A.S.S.. 639 was the version that was up when the request happened. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/82y1lwplojkdm2l/MechJeb2-2.5.9.0-638.zip?dl=0)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:32:33 pm
Oh jeeze. Mod drama in my KSP? Mechjeb is like my gateway drug to the stars. If some fuck has ruined that for a laugh...

Thank you for the dev copy Putnam.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2016, 10:35:40 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:32:33 pm
Oh jeeze. Mod drama in my KSP?

Look up some CKAN discussions sometime,heh.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:38:41 pm
Oh I know. I hardly use it though. Mechjeb on the other hand is essential due to certain disabilities of mine.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2016, 10:44:07 pm
http://www.mumech.com/uploads/MechJeb2_2.5.9_dev.zip

That's the latest one.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:48:01 pm
Much appreciated, again. I hope the mod dev will reconsider this course but I do understand his reaction. If he has decided to be done with mech jeb I'm sure someone else will pick up the torch and I'm sorry to see him go.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 11, 2016, 10:53:09 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:48:01 pm
I hope the mod dev will reconsider this course but I do understand his reaction.

I understand it, sorta, but I definitely wouldn't do that. Not for that kind of thing. I actually have to deal with it really often, and it's not even my mod, check out the starter pack and masterwork threads.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 11:06:39 pm
In didn't say I agreed with it. I found the whole thing pretty juvenile and petty. I do understand it though. And if he cannot handle a silly troll pushing his buttons then perhaps it's best this way
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2016, 06:38:54 am
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 11, 2016, 10:48:01 pm
I hope the mod dev will reconsider this course but I do understand his reaction.

Seems Sarbian reconsidered and Jenkins is up again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 08:46:23 am
Indeed. His response on the KSP forums is pretty telling.

Quote
There you go, I am back since I don't want my PM box to explode.

Now things will be simple. Any complains or request about release speed will result in a reported post. I have enough on my plate and I don't need to deal with entitled child on top of that.

Entitled child? The person who pushed him before was just trying to stir up trouble. The only one acting like an entitled child here was the modder.

In any case, he's come around and pulled his head out of his ass. I appreciate the work modders do and I understand they deal with a lot of shit but that doesn't entitle them to act like babies when someone decides to act out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 10:40:06 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.
Yes, but most of them don't go nuclear and delete their own work over it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2016, 11:14:14 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.

aaaand? sure it's annoying, but from there to going ballistic there are more reasonable courses of action. beside he likes the spotlight, he didn't even keept it down more than 24 hours.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 01:02:26 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 10:40:06 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.
Yes, but most of them don't go nuclear and delete their own work over it.

Exactly my point.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 01:06:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 01:02:26 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 10:40:06 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.
Yes, but most of them don't go nuclear and delete their own work over it.

Exactly my point.
Ah sorry, sounded like you were excusing his behavior.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 01:16:00 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 01:06:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 01:02:26 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 10:40:06 am
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 10:24:30 am
Every mod in their forum gets hammered by "updoot now!" for a few pages after a KSP release before moderators come and clean it up.
Yes, but most of them don't go nuclear and delete their own work over it.

Exactly my point.
Ah sorry, sounded like you were excusing his behavior.

Heck no. He's not that special of a flower. Sarbian has been at this a long time and I know he reads the forums.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 03:48:39 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because new versions bring new code which behaves differently? Honestly why would you expect them not to break?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 12, 2016, 04:46:03 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 03:48:39 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because new versions bring new code which behaves differently? Honestly why would you expect them not to break?

yeah games usually do shit about modding forward compatibility, even if it has proven times and times again to lead into modders burning out.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 12, 2016, 04:55:42 pm
>implying it's not ludicrously difficult to do that
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 12, 2016, 05:07:37 pm
Quote from: Ispil on October 12, 2016, 04:57:20 pm
Especially with KSP which, as far as I can tell, supports DLL injection with its mods. Good luck maintaining forward-compatibility with that.

In fact, most mods use it extensively. You can't add any new features to the game without it. You can add new parts that have similar functionality to existing parts, but that's almost entirely it.

KER, Kopernicus, StageRecovery any lighting changes, transfer window planner, EVA handrails, modularflightintegrator, module manager and KAC all require this. Note that I named all but one of the mods there. That last one should still work, but I wouldn't be surprised if CKAN's a butt about it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 05:10:13 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

CKAN is awful. More trouble than it's worth especially for certain mod authors that nest their work in one folder.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 05:22:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 05:10:13 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

CKAN is awful. More trouble than it's worth especially for certain mod authors that nest their work in one folder.
Worse, I've seen CKAN mods flagged for versions that they absolutely DO NOT work for, and it will quite happily install them anyway royally fucking your setup. I just install everything manually, just like I do with Skyrim and Fallout 3/4. Trusting a mod manager for anything beyond the most basic tasks will almost always end in tears unless the game is designed with mod compatibility in mind like Rimworld, and even then it can lead to huge problems if you don't know what you're doing.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 05:34:27 pm
Quote from: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 05:22:41 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 05:10:13 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

CKAN is awful. More trouble than it's worth especially for certain mod authors that nest their work in one folder.
Worse, I've seen CKAN mods flagged for versions that they absolutely DO NOT work for, and it will quite happily install them anyway royally fucking your setup. I just install everything manually, just like I do with Skyrim and Fallout 3/4. Trusting a mod manager for anything beyond the most basic tasks will almost always end in tears unless the game is designed with mod compatibility in mind like Rimworld, and even then it can lead to huge problems if you don't know what you're doing.

As long as you remember how you did it in the first place, yes. Skyrim and Fallout have very specific orders and overwrites for certain mods. Kerbal you always delete the old version, not overwrite.

Mods like the contract one and Strategia require waiting for now. They're too big of an impact in career.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on October 12, 2016, 07:04:19 pm
Nono, mod managers are required where mod installation is complicated. Bethesda's games are an obvious case of this, with load orders n' shit. Kerbal Space Program's mod installation is as such:

1. Download the mod and open the archive. If the folder contained within is "GameData", move on to step 2a, otherwise move to step 2b.
2a. Merge the GameData folder with your KSP install's GameData folder.
2b. Move the folder in the archive to your KSP install's GameData folder.

The only thing you have to worry about on top is dependencies (which are in almost all cases taken care of by the original download) and incompatibilities (which are hideously rare). CKAN tries to take care of both, but the more dependencies, the more likely someone screwed up the metadata or has the wrong version.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 07:25:35 pm
To be frank, the main reason I use CKAN is experience with Bethesda games.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on October 12, 2016, 07:26:36 pm
Kerbal modders add AND remove parts OR rename them. Copying over is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on October 13, 2016, 08:21:58 pm
>Sent a probe to Eve for surface datas.
>Was impatient and sent it there in 48 days
>Hit the atmosphere at OVER 9000 m/s
>Explosions happen
>Physics breaks, pieces of probe now levitating 48000 meters above Eve

I accidentally a new anomaly
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Azated on October 14, 2016, 01:14:09 am
Quote from: BFEL on October 13, 2016, 08:21:58 pm
>Physics breaks, pieces of probe now levitating 48000 meters above Eve

I accidentally a new anomaly

Was watching a video of a guy who managed to accelerate a probe (using infinite fuel) to something like 3% the speed of light. It hit Duna, bounced off, and shot out of the solar system going many times over the speed of light.

Apparently it is possible. Someone inform the scientists!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on October 14, 2016, 01:56:55 am
Quote from: Shadowlord on October 12, 2016, 03:41:48 pm
Why does every new KSP version seem to break all the mods I have installed? Sigh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Most often it's because updates to the game engine and code reworks. Old KSP had a lot of spaghetti code.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Greenbane on October 15, 2016, 10:25:35 am
Quote from: Putnam on October 12, 2016, 07:04:19 pm
Nono, mod managers are required where mod installation is complicated. Bethesda's games are an obvious case of this, with load orders n' shit. Kerbal Space Program's mod installation is as such:

1. Download the mod and open the archive. If the folder contained within is "GameData", move on to step 2a, otherwise move to step 2b.
2a. Merge the GameData folder with your KSP install's GameData folder.
2b. Move the folder in the archive to your KSP install's GameData folder.

The only thing you have to worry about on top is dependencies (which are in almost all cases taken care of by the original download) and incompatibilities (which are hideously rare). CKAN tries to take care of both, but the more dependencies, the more likely someone screwed up the metadata or has the wrong version.

Call me old-fashioned, but I use JSGME to manage my mods and keep the main installation largely intact.

It's probably somewhat more fiddly than CKAN, but it's a simple program without a layer of issues of its own (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/141918-ckan-proscons/).
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2016, 12:11:45 pm
I'm loving the new 'world first' things, even if they are small. It now recognizes rendezvous maneuvers, docking, etc. I got a 'docking near the mun' recently and a bit of cash to celebrate it.

The contracts seem better too. It's quickly learned than I dislike the survey contracts and has given me a lot more science and exploration stuff.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 11, 2016, 06:35:14 pm
(http://puu.sh/sf8q1/57e37f40d7.jpg)

While burning into Eve, Jeb somehow ended up at an altitude of 6 billion kilometers with my EVE base.

I was faced with two options:

1) To use the fuel to burn the craft into a dive back towards the solar system, something that would "only" take a few hundred years. The distant descendents of Kerbals would one day be visited by the dessicated corpse (or possibly the cheerfully-waving form) of their great pioneering astronaut and legendary hero.

2) Burn prograde and see how high he could go before the engine gave up.

I managed 34,000,000,000,000,000 kilometers before the apoapsis was no longer visible on the map. ETA: 701 million years.


Bill's proposal to load up the entire population of kerbals onto one gargantuan ship, then trigger a supernova and "surf" the most powerful blast wave known to science to boost them to a nearby system, snatching Jeb on the way somewhere, was rejected on the grounds of budget cuts.


Interestingly, despite the fact that Jeb's speed is given as 500m/s, Wolfram Alpha suggests that he is in fact going at 0.05c


In unrelated news, the groundbreaking Jool probe/ Laythe Lander was destroyed with all hands when a calculation error meant that their gravity brake around tylo would be happening at an altitude of 45 meters, instead of the intended 45 kilometers
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on November 11, 2016, 07:11:04 pm
That's not even some Imperial vs Metric BS there.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BFEL on January 02, 2017, 07:40:31 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/77308-12-routine-mission-manager-v023/#comment-1248843

Holy shit this sounds amazing. It basically lets you record docking missions to a space station and then automatically send the same mission later, making resupply convenient.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 20, 2017, 03:14:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 02, 2017, 07:40:31 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/77308-12-routine-mission-manager-v023/#comment-1248843

Holy shit this sounds amazing. It basically lets you record docking missions to a space station and then automatically send the same mission later, making resupply convenient.

Shame we don't have the multiplayer server anymore.  This could make a really interesting addition.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on January 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 20, 2017, 03:14:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 02, 2017, 07:40:31 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/77308-12-routine-mission-manager-v023/#comment-1248843

Holy shit this sounds amazing. It basically lets you record docking missions to a space station and then automatically send the same mission later, making resupply convenient.

Shame we don't have the multiplayer server anymore.  This could make a really interesting addition.

Why? With multiplayer you could have players doing resupplies.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: QuakeIV on January 21, 2017, 03:13:34 pm
I guess so nobody has to do boring stuff personally.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 21, 2017, 03:49:17 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on January 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 20, 2017, 03:14:59 pm
Quote from: BFEL on January 02, 2017, 07:40:31 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/77308-12-routine-mission-manager-v023/#comment-1248843

Holy shit this sounds amazing. It basically lets you record docking missions to a space station and then automatically send the same mission later, making resupply convenient.

Shame we don't have the multiplayer server anymore.  This could make a really interesting addition.

Why? With multiplayer you could have players doing resupplies.

Maybe, but refueling a station is simply unappealing in comparison to working with others to assemble a single ship in orbit for an expedition to a Gas Giant.  Or landing unmanned probes to find the best place to build a colony.  Or engage in multiple gravity slingshots that accidentally crash into the sun.

All moot point if there's no server, though.  Unless someone knows of an existing one we could use.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 21, 2017, 05:05:20 pm
Decided to look around to see what servers were available.  NoNameShips (Site (http://www.nonameships.pw/)) seems like it may be a good one.  If anyone wants to join me, I'll be diving in the 'Career' server (address: www.nonameships.pw  port: 6704 Edit: Yeah, switching over to the stock on 6702 instead.  Less stressful.  Plus a mission target didn't spawn for unknown reasons.).  Not many people seem to use it, so it seems to still be in the early stages.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 20, 2017, 01:33:21 pm
First step in a project:

(http://i.imgur.com/jxcszMb.png)

Now just another 87 similar launches to go
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: itisnotlogical on March 20, 2017, 01:49:01 pm
t  o  t  a  l  c  o  v  e  r  a  g  e
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 20, 2017, 02:29:50 pm
Those orbits. UGH. How long before some collide and you can't launch any more rockets into space? Kessler, you bastard.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 01:42:04 am
So.... Paid DLC is a thing now.
And it's stuff you can already get with mods.
RIP KSP development. Long live the moddng community.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 21, 2017, 01:59:12 am
I don't care. I get it for free because I bought it when it was still $7
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 21, 2017, 05:18:41 am
Quote from: Japa on March 21, 2017, 01:59:12 am
I don't care. I get it for free because I bought it when it was still $7
Same. But I don't really see this as a negative thing. You can't expect them to develop new content for free, forever. Probably funds are running low and sales are slowing down.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 07:43:32 am
Oh I support their decision %100, I'm sure the stuff they add will be more polished and bug free than the equivalent mods.  But it does kind of signal the end of significant major development of the game. Besides I'm sure it'll be like a $20 maximum DLC, and soon enough they'll be bundling it with the base game for the same $40 it's been now for a while.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 21, 2017, 07:51:50 am
So far what they've discussed as being part of the DLC doesn't have me much interested. At all.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on March 21, 2017, 08:57:22 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 07:43:32 am
Oh I support their decision %100, I'm sure the stuff they add will be more polished and bug free than the equivalent mods.  But it does kind of signal the end of significant major development of the game. Besides I'm sure it'll be like a $20 maximum DLC, and soon enough they'll be bundling it with the base game for the same $40 it's been now for a while.
I dunno, in my mind KSP is pretty much feature-complete right now. They can't really add a lot of things while keeping within the scale of the game (a single plantary system and tech that is available right now). Maybe life-support and multiplayer?

More engines or parts in general would be nice but isn't really needed, given how the parts present in vanilla are more than sufficient for the scope of vanilla (exploring a single planetary system). Adding new planets would be fun for exactly the amount of time it'd take you to get to those planets before people got bored of just having the same old planets again. Adding more solar systems would expand the scope of the game beyond what was originally planned, ditto most things having to do with establishing colonies or such.

Most of the work that can still be done would fall more under the purview of polish and minor quality-of-life improvements, like a deltaV calculator in the build screen.

So all in all, I'm pretty happy with vanilla KSP as it is now and I'm fine with them making DLC for it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on March 21, 2017, 02:35:52 pm
Quote from: Ispil on March 21, 2017, 07:54:12 am
Y'know, there was some mod... can't remember what it was called, but it completely redid the orbital mechanics of KSP. Their releases were also named after various famous mathematicians and such, language be damned. They've had releases named in Arabic, Russian, etc.

https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on March 21, 2017, 06:22:58 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on March 21, 2017, 08:57:22 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 07:43:32 am
Oh I support their decision %100, I'm sure the stuff they add will be more polished and bug free than the equivalent mods.  But it does kind of signal the end of significant major development of the game. Besides I'm sure it'll be like a $20 maximum DLC, and soon enough they'll be bundling it with the base game for the same $40 it's been now for a while.
I dunno, in my mind KSP is pretty much feature-complete right now. They can't really add a lot of things while keeping within the scale of the game (a single plantary system and tech that is available right now). Maybe life-support and multiplayer?

More engines or parts in general would be nice but isn't really needed, given how the parts present in vanilla are more than sufficient for the scope of vanilla (exploring a single planetary system). Adding new planets would be fun for exactly the amount of time it'd take you to get to those planets before people got bored of just having the same old planets again. Adding more solar systems would expand the scope of the game beyond what was originally planned, ditto most things having to do with establishing colonies or such.

Most of the work that can still be done would fall more under the purview of polish and minor quality-of-life improvements, like a deltaV calculator in the build screen.

So all in all, I'm pretty happy with vanilla KSP as it is now and I'm fine with them making DLC for it.

I'd find it interesting if they actually put more on Kerbin than just the space center and the abandoned airport.  Maybe a few cities and towns with their own airfields, maybe an additional launch site or two around the planet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on March 22, 2017, 12:06:49 am
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on March 21, 2017, 06:22:58 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on March 21, 2017, 08:57:22 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 07:43:32 am
Oh I support their decision %100, I'm sure the stuff they add will be more polished and bug free than the equivalent mods.  But it does kind of signal the end of significant major development of the game. Besides I'm sure it'll be like a $20 maximum DLC, and soon enough they'll be bundling it with the base game for the same $40 it's been now for a while.
I dunno, in my mind KSP is pretty much feature-complete right now. They can't really add a lot of things while keeping within the scale of the game (a single plantary system and tech that is available right now). Maybe life-support and multiplayer?

More engines or parts in general would be nice but isn't really needed, given how the parts present in vanilla are more than sufficient for the scope of vanilla (exploring a single planetary system). Adding new planets would be fun for exactly the amount of time it'd take you to get to those planets before people got bored of just having the same old planets again. Adding more solar systems would expand the scope of the game beyond what was originally planned, ditto most things having to do with establishing colonies or such.

Most of the work that can still be done would fall more under the purview of polish and minor quality-of-life improvements, like a deltaV calculator in the build screen.

So all in all, I'm pretty happy with vanilla KSP as it is now and I'm fine with them making DLC for it.

I'd find it interesting if they actually put more on Kerbin than just the space center and the abandoned airport.  Maybe a few cities and towns with their own airfields, maybe an additional launch site or two around the planet.

All covered by free mods.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Krevsin on March 22, 2017, 02:19:46 am
Quote from: BigD145 on March 22, 2017, 12:06:49 am
Quote from: Zanzetkuken The Great on March 21, 2017, 06:22:58 pm
Quote from: Krevsin on March 21, 2017, 08:57:22 am
Quote from: MarcAFK on March 21, 2017, 07:43:32 am
Oh I support their decision %100, I'm sure the stuff they add will be more polished and bug free than the equivalent mods.  But it does kind of signal the end of significant major development of the game. Besides I'm sure it'll be like a $20 maximum DLC, and soon enough they'll be bundling it with the base game for the same $40 it's been now for a while.
I dunno, in my mind KSP is pretty much feature-complete right now. They can't really add a lot of things while keeping within the scale of the game (a single plantary system and tech that is available right now). Maybe life-support and multiplayer?

More engines or parts in general would be nice but isn't really needed, given how the parts present in vanilla are more than sufficient for the scope of vanilla (exploring a single planetary system). Adding new planets would be fun for exactly the amount of time it'd take you to get to those planets before people got bored of just having the same old planets again. Adding more solar systems would expand the scope of the game beyond what was originally planned, ditto most things having to do with establishing colonies or such.

Most of the work that can still be done would fall more under the purview of polish and minor quality-of-life improvements, like a deltaV calculator in the build screen.

So all in all, I'm pretty happy with vanilla KSP as it is now and I'm fine with them making DLC for it.

I'd find it interesting if they actually put more on Kerbin than just the space center and the abandoned airport.  Maybe a few cities and towns with their own airfields, maybe an additional launch site or two around the planet.

All covered by free mods.
Not to mention, not really vital apart from maybe as additional polish. Designing cities and placing them on a (small) planet's worth of square mileage takes up a lot of resources. It's a thing for mods and I don't think the devs will ever implement it.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 22, 2017, 03:55:14 am
Spoiler: 141 down, 6,859 to go (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Rose on March 22, 2017, 09:53:51 am
Spoiler: I was trying to make elon musk's planned internet. (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Akura on May 29, 2017, 08:11:15 pm
They updated to 1.3 a couple of days ago. Main feature was localization to other languages. They also merged the Asteroid Day mod with the base game.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 30, 2017, 07:35:54 am
They fixed the runway, so... yay?
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on May 30, 2017, 12:48:53 pm
So many mods have to be recompiled for what is largely a language patch.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MarcAFK on May 31, 2017, 01:07:36 am
Quote from: BigD145 on May 30, 2017, 12:48:53 pm
So many mods have to be recompiled for what is largely a language patch.
Well. Maybe I can hack the fixed runway model into 1.2
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: sluissa on May 31, 2017, 10:17:28 pm
KSP bought by Take Two interactive.

The cynic in me is sad. I feel like this is the end of it as we know it...

...but, there are worse big publishers than Take Two.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on May 31, 2017, 10:50:26 pm
Well the publisher wouldn't have bought it if they didn't think they could make money off the deal, so expect to see more expansion packs and DLC in the future.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on May 31, 2017, 11:13:18 pm
It can't be worse for the people making the game than it already was.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 14, 2017, 06:17:14 pm
In case someone hasn't heard, Take Two just killed a significant portion of modding on Grand Theft Auto 5, one of their other titles. They did this because the utility in question apparently bypassed certain security measures in their game in order to mod. No idea if this will have any bearing on how they deal with KSP, I doubt it, but still worrying.

Edit: Source is here - http://gtaforums.com/topic/889348-openiv/
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 14, 2017, 08:48:45 pm
KSP is not multiplayer. GTA5 is. GTA5 sells in game money. Huge difference.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: MagmaMcFry on June 14, 2017, 08:51:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on June 14, 2017, 08:48:45 pm
KSP is not multiplayer. GTA5 is. GTA5 sells in game money. Huge difference.
Yet.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigD145 on June 14, 2017, 10:50:32 pm
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on June 14, 2017, 08:51:46 pm
Quote from: BigD145 on June 14, 2017, 08:48:45 pm
KSP is not multiplayer. GTA5 is. GTA5 sells in game money. Huge difference.
Yet.

Even then, totally different ballgame.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 23, 2017, 07:07:10 pm
Quote from: greatorder on July 22, 2017, 02:30:26 pm
Does anyone have a download link for CKAN that's not on Github? My browser's throwing a shitfit over the download and I'm feeling up for some modded KSP.

What kind of shitfit? I can't imagine anything in particular that would utterly prevent you from running it, except an overzealous antivirus.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on July 24, 2017, 02:30:59 pm
Maybe you should... just install manually? Ckan broke for me as well, but that didn't slow me down!
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 24, 2017, 06:53:16 pm
Yeah I would recommend installing manually in general, CKAN has had some issues in the past with compatibility and especially with generally taking the wishes of modders as suggestions to be ignored.
Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Glloyd on July 24, 2017, 11:54:15 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 24, 2017, 06:53:16 pm
...and especially with generally taking the wishes of modders as suggestions to be ignored.

Any examples? I haven't really heard anything to that effect, but I also haven't followed KSP closely in a while.

Title: Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
Post by: Putnam on July 25, 2017, 12:24:54 am
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/141918-ckan-proscons/

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/142358-ckan-discussion-continutation/