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Author Topic: The 40d Little Questions Thread  (Read 203403 times)

NecroRebel

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #990 on: January 29, 2010, 12:01:36 am »

Really.
Yes. Apparently, when sparring, there are 2 attack rolls made. The first checks to see if the attack hits, while the second checks to see if the attack "hits." If the second check is successful, no/severely limited damage is dealt, while if the first hits but the second doesn't it's like the target got hit full-force. Higher skill levels make both of these checks easier, so more skilled warriors spar more safely.

...Which has lead me to wonder if the common wisdom about no-quality weapons being the safest for sparring. I've read a quote from Toady that said that weapon quality improves effective skill levels, so I've wondered whether the skill boost from a masterwork weapon might not make for safer sparring than the lowered damage of a no-quality weapon. Unfortunately, I haven't the patience to test it for myself, and besides that, I usually find my masterwork steel weapons safe enough to train with once my people have full masterwork chain and plate, so I've had little motivation. If anyone can answer the implied question here I would be grateful  ;)
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gopher dude

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #991 on: January 29, 2010, 12:41:17 am »

I have a few questions about selling caged animals.


So I've set up cage traps in my fort for security reasons and I've taught two thing: A goblin, and about five or six gnomes.

How do I safely sell these creatures without the dwarfs just selling the cages they're in? And in the process taking the cage and letting the gnomes and the goblin out.

Can I sell caged humanoids/beastmen?

Can I pretty much trap any beast or creature in a cage?
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Cheddarius

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #992 on: January 29, 2010, 12:50:09 am »

You can trap almost anything, yeah. Some things won't be trapped unless you can knock them out, but even bronze colossi will be felled by a single oak cage trap. You can't catch vermin with cage traps though, and kobolds will avoid traps.
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Skorpion

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #993 on: January 29, 2010, 01:21:40 am »

They're wearing either clownite or steel, and they'll just run into battle carrying whatever when put on-duty.

That's your problem. Armor material should be a higher priority than weapon material. I'd try to make sure that any and all armor my guys are wearing is clownite before even thinking about making any clownite weapons. Even then, I'd make them spar with silver ones until they're legendary in at least the appropriate weapon skill, but preferably armor and shield usage as well. If you're unable to make them swap weapons whenever a siege comes around, then I think it would still be safer for them to fight using silver than to spar using clownite.

Right now, it's a case of having enough armour made. Most of the dwarves are legendary anyway, and it just seems to be random chance.
Hell, the last one WAS wearing clownite. He just randomly died of no longer having a throat.
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The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Cheddarius

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #994 on: January 29, 2010, 01:51:35 am »

Yep, not having a throat'll kill ya.
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assimilateur

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #995 on: January 29, 2010, 07:33:41 am »

He just randomly died of no longer having a throat.

It's generally advisable to use silver weapons for training, as has already been said over and over again. You know how the mechanics work, right? Normally, sparring dwarves hit each other very lightly, so as not to injure one another. Once in a while, however, a hit will "connect" as hardly as it should only do in live combat. That is a mistake, obviously, and seems to be more likely for a low-skilled fighter.

Thus if you give your guys very powerful weapons for training, a hard hit is likely to be dangerous even if their armor is as good as their weapons, and more so if their armor is weaker. That is precisely the reason for why sparring injuries using clownite weapons are anything but random, they are to be expected.

There really should be no discussion about this. If you want to let your guys use clownite weapons for training, then by all means do, but you're only asking for sparring-related injuries and deaths.

I've read a quote from Toady that said that weapon quality improves effective skill levels

I've read the same on the wiki, but I thought that wisdom was outdated. Do you remember whether that quote you're referring to was about the current version? Because if yes, and if the common wisdom of sparring becoming safer with higher weapon skills is true, then a high-quality weapon would most assuredly lead to safer training. A high-quality silver weapon, mind you, not a clownite one.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:37:41 am by assimilateur »
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Sphalerite

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #996 on: January 29, 2010, 09:09:44 am »

How do I safely sell these creatures without the dwarfs just selling the cages they're in? And in the process taking the cage and letting the gnomes and the goblin out.
You can't.  This is a bug in the current version.
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absynthe7

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #997 on: January 29, 2010, 10:46:54 am »

I'm building a magma-fall in front of my fortress, then raising my drawbridge to block the magma from entering my fort. One problem - no bauxite :(

How can I find some bauxite? Or, failing that, how can I build a pump stack and drawbridge safely without any?
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NecroRebel

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #998 on: January 29, 2010, 11:52:30 am »

I've read a quote from Toady that said that weapon quality improves effective skill levels

I've read the same on the wiki, but I thought that wisdom was outdated. Do you remember whether that quote you're referring to was about the current version? Because if yes, and if the common wisdom of sparring becoming safer with higher weapon skills is true, then a high-quality weapon would most assuredly lead to safer training. A high-quality silver weapon, mind you, not a clownite one.
Hmm... Just found the quote on the wiki again (it's on the item quality page), and now it is under a label for a specific version (23a), but I never remember seeing it there before. Odd. I had just assumed that information was current, but if it's obsolete it might not matter.

But yes, if it is still current, MW silver would be the best for sparring. Though the fact that it refers to 23a doesn't make it certainly inapplicable now... Annoying  :-\

Edit: By happenstance, I found Footkerchief quoting a place where Toady said that the quality-based skill modifications are, in fact, still applicable. Bottom of this post. So, the question is still open (not answered, as such, since damage-over-time with no-quality and MW-quality from sparring isn't clear, but rather open).

I'm building a magma-fall in front of my fortress, then raising my drawbridge to block the magma from entering my fort. One problem - no bauxite :(

How can I find some bauxite? Or, failing that, how can I build a pump stack and drawbridge safely without any?
Bauxite is vastly overrated. It is found in large clusters in sedimentary rock layers, which are fairly uncommonly found near magma. While it is the only magma-safe stone (mostly), most magmaworks I've built haven't needed it at all.

To make a "magma-safe" drawbridge without actually making a magma-safe drawbridge, just make sure you always and without fail raise it before magma would cover it. To make a "magma-safe" pump stack without actually making a magma-safe pump stack, just use fire-safe materials to build the pumps, use the pumps themselves for the stack's power system, and make sure that no magma ever gets into the passible intake end of any pumps. To use the pumps for the stack's power system, build floors and walls like the following:

======
=.+.+=
======


except for on the lowest level, where you omit the hole between the two floor pieces. Have one level just like that, though perhaps rotated, then the next level up flipped 180 degrees. Put the passable tile on top of the first floor tile with the output leading onto the second floor tile. This makes each pump output directly into the input tile of the next, and all of the pumps will be hanging and attached directly to the ones below and above themselves such that power will transfer. Connect the power system from outside the stack from the side to one of the stack's passible tiles, with a lever-linked gear assembly somewhere along the line so you can cut the power to the stack; this will allow you to do without a door or somesuch at the stack's top for toggling the magma-fall, which you can't do without bauxite mechanisms.

...If that's not clear enough, which it might not be since I know what I'm talking about and I'm still confusing myself, ask someone else  ::)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 10:08:20 pm by NecroRebel »
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gopher dude

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #999 on: January 29, 2010, 11:18:53 pm »

How do I know what I can and cannot tame?

I've started a new fortress and I see some naked mole dogs hanging around a chasm nearby my fortress and a giant cave swallow.

Can I tame and breed the naked mole dogs?
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NecroRebel

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #1000 on: January 29, 2010, 11:28:06 pm »

How do I know what I can and cannot tame?

I've started a new fortress and I see some naked mole dogs hanging around a chasm nearby my fortress and a giant cave swallow.

Can I tame and breed the naked mole dogs?
You can't really tell ingame, but the raws and wiki can help. The wiki especially, as you can relatively quickly look up a specific creature's entry, check their Game Object Data (which, by default, is inside a spoiler), which is essentially the creature's raw entry in an easy-to-find location, and search for the [PET] or [PET_EXOTIC] tag. If they have one of these, the creature can be tamed.

Naked mole dogs have the [PET_EXOTIC] tag, which means that you can tame them once your dungeon master arrives. The swallow has the same. Do note that normal dogs are essentially better than NMDs in almost every way; bigger, trainable, and much easier to get ahold of. Then again, there's not really any reason not to have both NMDs and non-naked non-mole dogs, so... Yeah.
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Skorpion

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #1001 on: January 30, 2010, 12:13:39 am »

He just randomly died of no longer having a throat.

It's generally advisable to use silver weapons for training, as has already been said over and over again. You know how the mechanics work, right? Normally, sparring dwarves hit each other very lightly, so as not to injure one another. Once in a while, however, a hit will "connect" as hardly as it should only do in live combat. That is a mistake, obviously, and seems to be more likely for a low-skilled fighter.

Thus if you give your guys very powerful weapons for training, a hard hit is likely to be dangerous even if their armor is as good as their weapons, and more so if their armor is weaker. That is precisely the reason for why sparring injuries using clownite weapons are anything but random, they are to be expected.

There really should be no discussion about this. If you want to let your guys use clownite weapons for training, then by all means do, but you're only asking for sparring-related injuries and deaths.

I know I shouldn't let them do that, but there's no END of trouble getting them to relinquish low-quality junk.
And I'm LONG past caring about casualties. I think I'm just gonna leave them on duty all the time from now on, for the sake of security.
Constant vigilance!
Except when you're sleeping.
Or drinking.
Or getting provisions.
Or walking between them.
Or on break wandering around the chasm.
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The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

SethCreiyd

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #1002 on: January 30, 2010, 12:16:04 am »

I have stolen all of the goods from the past five elven caravans, but they keep on coming in peace, and they never ask me to stop deforesting the area even though I have nearly cleared the entire map.  I want these elves to attack!  What am I doing wrong?
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Hannibal Barcalounger

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #1003 on: January 30, 2010, 12:19:11 am »

Is there any way to enlarge farms, short of demolishing and re-designating?
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Cheddarius

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Re: The Little Questions Thread
« Reply #1004 on: January 30, 2010, 01:19:10 am »

Seth, build a bridge over a large 10-z chasm (designate c(h)annels to make a chasm) and set it on repeat. Let a few elves fall in and die, but let some escape to tell the tale.

Skorpion, how about this: Have a few guys train for a massive time, silver weapons only. Have a bunch of squads have constant vigilance like you said. When the trainers become champions, switch them out to constant vigilance and switch a squad in for training.
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