Reserved for stuff....
Also, Wuba's a part of this.
Also, just in case you haven't noticed, this is a semi-bastard mod.
Posting to watch."You bastard"? :pReserved for stuff....
Also, Wuba's a part of this.
Also, just in case you haven't noticed, this is a semi-bastard mod.
...
...
...
...
You... you...
Why am I such a sucker for bastard games?
No matter.
Posting to watch and not play.
Posting to watch and not play.Join up so I can have friendly other-persons to poke D:<
- The secondary role should be concrete (non-abstract); if it's not, it will either be modified to become concrete or might have a penalty associated with it.Erm, when you say 'secondary role', you mean "this role is like a BYOR but is more like secondary because this is Shakerag's game" right?
- Players get a Shakeragian role and a secondary role right before game start.
IN!Considering there is an official "Registered Observers" list (interesting wording, and in a bastardy game), 4mask might still be quite pokeable.Posting to watch and not play.Join up so I can have friendly other-persons to poke D:<
Thanks :3
IN!Yeah, the main roles in this game are already made, while your secondary roles give you more options and ultimately help you win.
Edit:Quote- The secondary role should be concrete (non-abstract); if it's not, it will either be modified to become concrete or might have a penalty associated with it.Erm, when you say 'secondary role', you mean "this role is like a BYOR but is more like secondary because this is Shakerag's game" right?
- Players get a Shakeragian role and a secondary role right before game start.
...When you say 'non-abstract', I can't send in Philosophical roles? :C
So a general counter-shakerag role won't work, huh? :PIN!Yeah, the main roles in this game are already made, while your secondary roles give you more options and ultimately help you win.
Edit:Quote- The secondary role should be concrete (non-abstract); if it's not, it will either be modified to become concrete or might have a penalty associated with it.Erm, when you say 'secondary role', you mean "this role is like a BYOR but is more like secondary because this is Shakerag's game" right?
- Players get a Shakeragian role and a secondary role right before game start.
...When you say 'non-abstract', I can't send in Philosophical roles? :C
Philosophical ones are indeed most likely abstract.
I would in but the secondary role description is not helpful enough for me to figure out what roles are acceptable beyond literal concrete.This so much @_@
You know what? I'll just submit whatever I want and then you can tell me if it works or not.That's what I did.
Urk...Posting to watch and not play.Join up so I can have friendly other-persons to poke D:<
Thanks :3
I knew someone would. Perfect. Hehehe.I'm trying to figure out what you knew someone would do.
Because, just letting everyone know, I submitted a shakeragian role for my secondary role. >.>And I submitted something that makes Shakeragian roles look normal in comparison.
Won't tell. :pI knew someone would. Perfect. Hehehe.I'm trying to figure out what you knew someone would do.
Submit another shakeragian role?
Because, just letting everyone know, I submitted a shakeragian role for my secondary role. >.>
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess something to the effect of "The Role That Kills Shakerag Now".I knew someone would. Perfect. Hehehe.I'm trying to figure out what you knew someone would do.
Submit another shakeragian role?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess something to the effect of "The Role That Kills Shakerag Now".I knew someone would. Perfect. Hehehe.I'm trying to figure out what you knew someone would do.
Submit another shakeragian role?
Just sign up already, 4mask.Speaking of which, I notice he's listed as a registered obsever twice. I wonder if someone could get themselves listed as an attendee twice.
4mask's secondary may be List Me As Registered Observer. :PJust sign up already, 4mask.Speaking of which, I notice he's listed as a registered obsever twice. I wonder if someone could get themselves listed as an attendee twice.
Interesting.
Also, Wuba's a part of this.Wait, Wuba's a part of this.
Also, Wuba's a part of this.Wait, Wuba's a part of this.
Son of a bitch.
I'm in it to fail horribly and drop below 1/3 for win-lose.
When do you plan on starting?Maybe the 2nd or 3rd, depending on how much time I get on Saturday to get the secondary roles made and balanced.
I think with each role submitted, this game gets just a little more bastard. ;DSo me submitting 'Shakerag's GBA' makes this more bastard-y!?
Is everyone fine with a Sunday start? I find that makes it a bit less hectic.Well, I won't be around until Monday, so I guess that gives everyone a full day to daykill me.
Moar people por favor?
So, two of Leafsnail, Mastahcheese, Meph, Deathsword.Nah bro.
I don't really want to pester anyone, though. Or should I? :p
Too late, Wuba. Not this time. No. Not again.Man, I told you. I got this. Just give me THAT role.
Sorry.
/bugs bunny quote
I didn't know you wanted the huggable teddy/penguin plushie role :DToo late, Wuba. Not this time. No. Not again.Man, I told you. I got this. Just give me THAT role.
Sorry.
/bugs bunny quote
I've never seen Leafsnail play. I've seen him jump in post-game and critique a lot of the going-ons, but never seen him play. Maybe he could join in?Were you not in the first CYOM? Now that I think about it, I don't think you were. That's the last time I remember playing with Leafy.
I played the second one. I missed my chance at the first.I've never seen Leafsnail play. I've seen him jump in post-game and critique a lot of the going-ons, but never seen him play. Maybe he could join in?Were you not in the first CYOM? Now that I think about it, I don't think you were. That's the last time I remember playing with Leafy.
In
In
It seems I have been pestered.And lo, the cat patrol has arrived.
Very well.
In
Cue chorus of angels singing "Jalepeno! Jalepeno!"...?
I'd like to +1 this. :pCue chorus of angels singing "Jalepeno! Jalepeno!"...?
Ja-la-pen-oI got that reference XD
Ha-lle-lu-iah
.....
I was happy that we reintroduced the Jalapeno bagel at Tim's today, and was singing the Halleluiah Chorus with the word replaced with Jalapeno.
And so I had reason to celebrate AGAIN when the 15th slot got filled. So I said "cue chorus of angels", and since I was already being silly.......?
hmm I demand more bacon, and adding more shakerag.But Shakerag and bacon aren't compatible >_>
hmm I demand more bacon, and adding more shakerag.But Shakerag and bacon aren't compatible >_>
That's the best thinh to happen in WIFOM Fortress yet.hmm I demand more bacon, and adding more shakerag.But Shakerag and bacon aren't compatible >_>
(http://i.imgur.com/omvxRzQ.png)
Besides my brain getting asploded by two insanely awesome videos...
11/15 roles DONE.
Well, relatively 11.
...
Let me rephrase that.
11 roles are balanced. Expect PM's tomorrow.
If you don't get one in 24 hours, just poke me.
...
hype hype hype
7.6/10 needs more hype.
HYPE HYPE HYPESpoiler: HYPE (click to show/hide)
7.6/10 needs more hype.
HYPE HYPE HYPESpoiler: HYPE (click to show/hide)
Hype ought in use.xD
Also, in case you're not registered for QuickTopic, please do so. Justin Case.There are mafia players without quicktopic accounts?
These roles are beautifully excecuted.I hear ya, pardner.
I see what you did there.You see what who did where?
I see what you did there.You see what who did where?
They're not executed yet, they're just made.
Actually, I object.Oh, sure, start the game when I won't be around at all.
I'd like to have more sleep than usual. :P
Send your final questions and get ready to RUMBLE in about 10 hours.
I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
Boxers, easy.I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
You're a madman.Boxers, easy.I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
I could've said boxer briefs.You're a madman.Boxers, easy.I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
Well played, sir.I could've said boxer briefs.You're a madman.Boxers, easy.I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
I discovered boxer briefs not long ago. Now I can't imagine wearing anything else.I could've said boxer briefs.You're a madman.Boxers, easy.I can answer questions too.Boxers or briefs?
*Resists urge to kill Shakerag, then ponders the insanity of such restraint in such a place*
*looks at title*Yes and no. But mostly no. In fact, completely no.
*thinks*
@__@
We'll be killing ourselves because we all have the essence of Shakerag!
++Hype
Though considering that roles are out beforehand...um.
Wouldn't that 'lean' the game towards those who know before and those who just received theirs?
Shoot, son, I dunno!TolyK is back!
Of course, you can kill yourselves off...
That was only 7 hours. :PShoot, son, I dunno!TolyK is back!
Of course, you can kill yourselves off...
Does that mean we start soon?
-About answering questions:
= In-thread: only generic ones.
Unvote Varee.I'm not even a player!
Vote Webadict.
Oh wait. TolyK, does the rule about answering questions pertain to questions to the mod, or questions to other players?Only mod questions. Normal questions to each other are fine.
NQT also have tha power to make the mod lie! that .......... (I don't think he does, actually. I don't think he's actually in the game.
Not yet, and they might bias one player or another into one way of thinking or another, leading them down the wrong path and missing the right one.
Flabort: Have you read any of the Kill Webadict Now games? What influence do you think they'll have on this game?
CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE: Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?Shakerag, obviously.
Mastahcheese [1] How often should one revise their opinions on someone? [2] Should a revision be drastic, and [3] should past opinions have a say in new opinions?[1] As often as possible, whenever anything comes up that could alter it.
Cheeetar Which is scummier: Lurking day 2, or not answering questions day 1?
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Toaster: NQT is definitely my not-a-player-buddy, Do you think I can get away with being lazy in a game liek this?
Also From what I know there 13 shakerags in this game .....
Not yet, and they might bias one player or another into one way of thinking or another, leading them down the wrong path and missing the right one.
If you had picked another secondary role, would you have picked by how cool the name was, or by how powerful the idea of the role seemed?
Toaster Do you think that it is possible for everyone in the game to win at once?
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Toaster: In what circumstances would you use the wood or adamantine hammer?
I'm not.NQT also have tha power to make the mod lie! that .......... (I don't think he does, actually. I don't think he's actually in the game.
nah am just stating that it is possibleAnything is possible if you believe!
Mastahcheese:That... Doesn't really answer my question?Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
I have nothing to hide.
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?It actually helps me out.
Hmm that weird,
Blah going to type out RVS but too many people :P
Everyone: Are you satisfied with your role? Is there something that you want to claim before the game gets into full swing. I personally don't, but Cheeetar claiming miller reminded me of that.I have an awful post restriction. Among other things, I can't vote with a reason in the same post, and I can't double post. So if I post a reasonless vote, ask me what the reason is and I'll be happy to post it.
Persus13Around one in-game day would be what I'd consider a good time. I'd probably wait until the end of Day 2 before getting mad about it. Lurking kills games, blah blah blah. As usual, context is key, if its a player like Deathsword who has a history of lurking, I'll understand and not find it as scummy, but be a little more annoyed about it. If it is a player who hasn't lurked much and doesn't have a good excuse I'll definitely be more on their case about it.Are you lurking again?How long must someone be gone before he or she can be genuinely accused of lurking? Would you accuse them right away or wait longer?
Toaster: Any recommendations for a player new to bastard games?
Everyone: Are you satisfied with your role? Is there something that you want to claim before the game gets into full swing. I personally don't, but Cheeetar claiming miller reminded me of that.4maskwolf: I am satisfied, and have nothing to declare. What use do you think these questions will have? How would you handle double-wincon players?
Jack A T Would you lie as scum? As a third party?flabort: If it would help me achieve my wincon, yes. Which of your 14 RVS questions do you think will gain you useful information? Why? Of what sort? Which ones do you think will not?
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?mastahcheese: I try to avoid making careful plans before the game starts, especially in semibastardy games like this. Did you make plans for this game before it started?
flabort: If it would help me achieve my wincon, yes. Which of your 14 RVS questions do you think will gain you useful information? Why? Of what sort? Which ones do you think will not?Correction: 15 RVS questions.
I guess I assumed the "not at all" was implied.How come you aren't following your own advice?
Persus:I ask because I get the feeling that you're spending more time making yourself seem unsupspicious, than simply answering questions.Toaster: Any recommendations for a player new to bastard games?Don't make any assumptions.
Besides the weapon I've already been handed? Probably, yes. Right this second, no, but I'm not afraid of killing someone I strongly suspect.Really?
I always plan ahead. Doesn't mean they ever help, but I try.Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?mastahcheese: I try to avoid making careful plans before the game starts, especially in semibastardy games like this. Did you make plans for this game before it started?
Mastahcheese: Why would I vote for you?Because you can. Because you're trying to apply pressure. Because you want me dead. Because you're spiting me for all the times i've said "screw you, Jack".
Toaster: As the hammerer, what do you view your job as being? Would you, under any circumstances, declare before the end of the day that you would refuse to kill a given player?
ToastaaaarI guess I assumed the "not at all" was implied.How come you aren't following your own advice?Persus:I ask because I get the feeling that you're spending more time making yourself seem unsupspicious, than simply answering questions.Toaster: Any recommendations for a player new to bastard games?Don't make any assumptions.Besides the weapon I've already been handed? Probably, yes. Right this second, no, but I'm not afraid of killing someone I strongly suspect.Really?
*Passes Toaster a gun*
I want to see if you'll make due on that, Toaster
mastahcheese: Your effort to cover as many possibilities as you could failed. You missed one: I wanted to see how you would react. (Also, where did you say "screw you, Jack" before? I want to add that to my signature.)Didn't consider that possibility because it slipped my mind, honestly, even though it's the most obvious one.
Why did you not consider that possibility? Also, how much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Toaster: Thanks. Do you have a rolecop ability for secondary roles? If so, could you please use it on me and tell me what that condition is, because it's hidden from me.
mastahcheese has actioned Toaster.
Flabort: I say roll randomly for who gets it. Causes Lols.flabort: This. Also, I'm surprised you have such a specific order of expected effectiveness for your RVS questions. I'd like an explanation of that order when you can give one.
Double wincon players? Those exist in this game? Are you one?4maskwolf: I am not. However, as each of us has two roles, and each role has a wincon slot (which can be blank) (have you not read your role PM?), and as the mod said this (underlining mine):
P.S. Don't expect many new win conditions from your secondary roles. Just FYI.... the potential for a player to have multiple wincons clearly exists. So. Please answer my question.
TolyK: Are you allowed to tell any straight-up lies due to an ability someone has? Also, why did you use italics when saying “he’s not playing” the second time? Was it flavor or something else?Well, only due to abilities.
Webadict: How large or a part did you play in the creation of the base roles?
Shakerag: Are you the real Shakerag?I can already see that this is going to be awkward. In so far as game mechanics are concerned, I am not a "real Shakerag".
Shakerag: The title says I must kill you. Do you agree y/nNooooooo. You have to kill your -own- Shakerag. I am not the Shakerag you are looking for.
Also From what I know there 13 shakerags in this game .....Are you sure about that?
Shakerag How many third parties do you expect there to be?Hell if I know. More than one, fewer than sixteen?
1] Who wants a gift? I need to prep it ahead of time, during the day, so I can give it during night, so (new) role names!
TheDarkStar What do you suspect these mandates are? Do you suspect that they will have any impact on your play?
1] Who wants a gift? I need to prep it ahead of time, during the day, so I can give it during night, so (new) role names!
What kind of gift?
mastahcheese “Who, me” “Yes, you” “Not me!” “Than who?” Cheeetar stole the cookies from the cookie jar!
Oh, and Unvote Cheeetar, I was just continuing the song when I “voted” for you.
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?To see if he's true to his word, basically.
STILL PFW1] Who wants a gift? I need to prep it ahead of time, during the day, so I can give it during night, so (new) role names!
What kind of gift?
I can give someone a new secondary role. I need to prepare it ahead of time. It does not replace their old one. I think if I wanted I could also give away the secondary I started with.
FOR THIS REASON, even if I am to give it randomly, what kinds of roles would people like? I could also duplicate your existing secondary if I knew the name; TolyK was unclear as to whether it would ALWAYS duplicate.
Reply to the other thing in a couple hours.
Everyone Role ideas? what do you want if I choose you?
I’m not Shakerag!That feels so weird to say.
I’m not Shakerag!
And someone claimed a Shakerag-miller role earlier too.I’m not Shakerag!
[joke]Very convincing.[/joke]
I see what you're trying to say, though. That's actually what caused me to ask the question in the first place - you claimed not-Shakerag earlier.
I am a Shakerag miller- I appear to be Shakerag on inspection, but I am not. Honest.
And someone claimed a Shakerag-miller role earlier too.I’m not Shakerag!
[joke]Very convincing.[/joke]
I see what you're trying to say, though. That's actually what caused me to ask the question in the first place - you claimed not-Shakerag earlier.I am a Shakerag miller- I appear to be Shakerag on inspection, but I am not. Honest.
I am a Shakerag miller- I appear to be Shakerag on inspection, but I am not. Honest.
Jim Groovester Do you figure that this game can possibly go into LYLO or MYLO?
Jim G: You typically avoid the crazier games. Have you gotten in over your head here?
I can confirm I got a gun. I can now daykill someone. Helpfully, I can target myself with this. So... two lynches today go go go?
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Really?
*Passes Toaster a gun*
I want to see if you'll make due on that, Toaster
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?To see if he's true to his word, basically.
I'd like to be more specific, but then it would serve no purpose because Toaster can see what I'm typing, and use that to deduce my actions.
Basically.
Jim Groovester: As a townie, which player (aside from the Third Party In Name Only types) would you most want to be a serial killer? Why? How about survivor?
PfW
Toaster: Thanks. Do you have a rolecop ability for secondary roles? If so, could you please use it on me and tell me what that condition is, because it's hidden from me.
Everyone Role ideas? what do you want if I choose you?
PFP
Flabort: The most effective way to scum hunt in a high-powered game without using any powers would probably be to look closely at the posts and see what people are implying.
I am a Shakerag miller- I appear to be Shakerag on inspection, but I am not. Honest.
What if you were a Shakerag but on inspection appeared not to be one? Would you claim that?
If you were a town miller I could understand claiming but I don't understand why you would claim a Shakerag miller without knowing more about the game, and whether that would be a wise decision for you in the first place.
As to why I'm asking about what everyone wants forchristdorfmas, it's to see who's naughty or nice. But everyone is reluctant (so far) to give me any ideas, so I don't have a list to check once, let alone twice.
[1] At least once or twice an in-game day, but not so often that you are being wishy washy.Mastahcheese [1] How often should one revise their opinions on someone? [2] Should a revision be drastic, and [3] should past opinions have a say in new opinions?[1] As often as possible, whenever anything comes up that could alter it.
[2] Not neccassarily, no. It should be more "double checking to see what's changed", not just revising for the sake of revising.
[3] I think so, yeah. First impressions mean a lot.
What are your opinions on such things?
This seems fair. I like this assessment.Cheeetar Which is scummier: Lurking day 2, or not answering questions day 1?
This is a good question. Not answering questions is more a sign of actual inactivity or newbieness than any calculated move- it costs nothing to answer a question, and it's fairly easy to not incriminate yourself too much. I'd say lurking day 2 is more of a scumtell than not answering questions day 1.
Who do you feel you can read best right now? Who haven't you played with before and what do you plan on doing to get acquainted with their playstyle?GayArchaea's first game was the one I ran, iirc, so I haven't played with him, though I have seen him play. I don't remember playing with SBC, although I might have, and SBC was in my game too. I don't remember playing with Vector.
Jack A T Would you lie as scum? As a third party?flabort: If it would help me achieve my wincon, yes. Which of your 15 RVS questions do you think will gain you useful information? Why? Of what sort? Which ones do you think will not?
Yup, I was planning on that. Here:Flabort: I say roll randomly for who gets it. Causes Lols.flabort: This. Also, I'm surprised you have such a specific order of expected effectiveness for your RVS questions. I'd like an explanation of that order when you can give one.
Jack AT: More later, but the order of effectiveness I expect from my RVS questions:Orange: Very little information expected, these players tend to be able to hold a conversation on very little starting material.
1] Who wants a gift? I need to prep it ahead of time, during the day, so I can give it during night, so (new) role names!
2] Tiruin
3] SBC
4] Vector
5] Cheeetar
6] Mastah
7] 4mask
8] Persus
9] GA
10] Varee
11] Toaster
12] Jim
13] Shakerag
14] TDS
15] Jack AT
Flabort:With what Jim said, wow the second half of this seems really frightening now. :PToaster: Thanks. Do you have a rolecop ability for secondary roles? If so, could you please use it on me and tell me what that condition is, because it's hidden from me.
Fairly rolefishy (and oddly targeted at me instead of anyone), so I'll answer vaguely by saying I won't be helping you with that.mastahcheese has actioned Toaster.
I can confirm I got a gun. I can now daykill someone. Helpfully, I can target myself with this. So... two lynches today go go go?
Flabort: It really depends on the player, but it’s easier to figure out people’s wincons from their posts than their abilities, barring outright statements or intentional hints. Granted, wincon discernment is also pretty hard.I find this to be true. But what do you mean by it depends on the player? Are certain players easier to read in that way?
flabort:Well, you proved me wrong with that. (See answer to Jack above)Shakerag How many third parties do you expect there to be?Hell if I know. More than one, fewer than sixteen?
Bluh bluh busy.
OK. What do you think defines a Noble? I expect a cultist team.TheDarkStar What do you suspect these mandates are? Do you suspect that they will have any impact on your play?
Mandates are probably something about how nobles can direct what other people do (maybe they need to know the role or the ability name?).
I'll be a volunteer. I don't have a role suggestion yet.OK, I look forward to your suggestion.
Everyone: Are you a Shakerag? Some people claim that they are not one, so I want to see who is and who isn't. Is this too similar to rolefishing?
But I don't care about milo or lylo.OK. So how was that a better question? :P
I expect random bullshit to take me out before I get there. I also expect random bullshit out of my control to either make me win or lose.As to why I'm asking about what everyone wants forchristdorfmas, it's to see who's naughty or nice. But everyone is reluctant (so far) to give me any ideas, so I don't have a list to check once, let alone twice.
So, if somebody wants free stuff are they naughty and if they don't are they nice? What if they just want free stuff?
Hmm that weird,
Blah going to type out RVS but too many people :P
Cheeetar Which is scummier: Lurking day 2, or not answering questions day 1?
This is a good question. Not answering questions is more a sign of actual inactivity or newbieness than any calculated move- it costs nothing to answer a question, and it's fairly easy to not incriminate yourself too much. I'd say lurking day 2 is more of a scumtell than not answering questions day 1.
Varee: What would be a good motive for targeting Jack A T on Day 1? Would it most likely be due to his skill level, or something else?
Everyone: Are you satisfied with your role? Is there something that you want to claim before the game gets into full swing. I personally don't, but Cheeetar claiming miller reminded me of that.
Vector: Are you the AlienExterminatorShakerag?
By the way, who would like an extra role tonight, and what do they want? Santa Claus is coming to town.
PfW
Toaster: Thanks. Do you have a rolecop ability for secondary roles? If so, could you please use it on me and tell me what that condition is, because it's hidden from me.
Vector: I haven't played with you before, what do you consider important scumtells? What games do you consider to have good play from you?
Vector: It's been a while. How will Toaster's hammereriness affect your voting today?
Toaster:Shakerag: The title says I must kill you. Do you agree y/nNooooooo. You have to kill your -own- Shakerag. I am not the Shakerag you are looking for.
Bluh bluh busy.
Everyone: Are you a Shakerag? Some people claim that they are not one, so I want to see who is and who isn't. Is this too similar to rolefishing?
CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE: Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?Shakerag, obviously.
Now you have that song in my head.
._.
I hate you now.
Vote 4mask
Vareeeeeeee: How did you randomly pick? Random.org?
Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Persus:I ask because I get the feeling that you're spending more time making yourself seem unsupspicious, than simply answering questions.Toaster: Any recommendations for a player new to bastard games?Don't make any assumptions.
Besides the weapon I've already been handed? Probably, yes. Right this second, no, but I'm not afraid of killing someone I strongly suspect.Really?
*Passes Toaster a gun*
I want to see if you'll make due on that, Toaster
Mastahcheese: Why would I vote for you?Because you can. Because you're trying to apply pressure. Because you want me dead. Because you're spiting me for all the times i've said "screw you, Jack".
...Did I get one right?
Can't answer, having mental breakdown, 4mask will be with you later when he's not afraid of dying in the immediate future.What.
Flabort: How did you decide what kind of questions to ask?Creative process, where I consider random questions for the RVS phase and decide whether to ask them or not, and then choose who to ask them to.
What kind of information [note: information, not answer] do you expect to get from these questions?Alright, where information =/= answer, and =/= conversation stimulating, I expect a bare minimum of the sort of information gained from RVS: who does and doesn't participate in RVS or regular conversations; also information for later in case somebody contradicts themselves later. And lastly a couple seeded in to farm information on how to treat my own role. Otherwise, see my answer to Jack A T.
If parts of my role weren't shown to me, I would use the available information in order to attempt to deduce them, or assume that some sort of later role interaction would make them clear. In other words, I would treat it as a puzzle.Right. Thank you for this.
Because of the reason I gave earlier: I thought if Mastahcheese could trust him, he must have a reason to, and therefore Toaster must be trustworthy.PfW
Toaster: Thanks. Do you have a rolecop ability for secondary roles? If so, could you please use it on me and tell me what that condition is, because it's hidden from me.
Why did you ask Toaster in particular this question?
Can't answer, having mental breakdown, 4mask will be with you later when he's not afraid of dying in the immediate future.Hmm. Hope you feel better and less afraid soon.
Vector: To what extent is congeniality suspicious?
Flabort: How did you decide what kind of questions to ask?Creative process, where I consider random questions for the RVS phase and decide whether to ask them or not, and then choose who to ask them to.QuoteWhat kind of information [note: information, not answer] do you expect to get from these questions?Alright, where information =/= answer, and =/= conversation stimulating, I expect a bare minimum of the sort of information gained from RVS: who does and doesn't participate in RVS or regular conversations; also information for later in case somebody contradicts themselves later. And lastly a couple seeded in to farm information on how to treat my own role. Otherwise, see my answer to Jack A T.
Why didn't you see my answer to this question earlier? Was it the WoT?
Can't answer, having mental breakdown, 4mask will be with you later when he's not afraid of dying in the immediate future.Hmm. Hope you feel better and less afraid soon.
Seriously, though. If you don't feel that you have the degree of control that you do in a regular game, why don't you do something to make yourself feel in control? Be the one in charge of firing off the "random bullshit" and work on eliminating those you suspect to be capable of offing you; why give yourself up to the random flow instead of playing to win?
And no, what, you're afraid everything I have to offer is coal? I genuinely want to give somebody a free gift!
I don't intend to declare everyone who wants a gift naughty, nor everyone who doesn't nice. Obviously that's full of WIFOM (were they trying to hide whether they were nice or not, etc), and I don't want that. I expect that what people request will be more informative than who requests.
Day will end: not soon.
Random : The power just pick random people as target so .....
I fail to see what you're trying to test Toaster about.You'll understand later.
Isn't it risky to willy-nilly give daykills about? Furthermore, why did you give Toaster a daykill if you don't trust him?
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?Didn't I just answer this?
What the fuck are you talking about?Don't question my logic, Jim.
Cause I'm on an iPod, and at that time, was also at work, and it's a pain trying to type out lots of things.Everyone: How much does the actions-made-public rule screw with your plans?
Mastahcheese: What's with the lazy voting and questioning? Who are the three players you think are most likely to be scum?
I just don't like it.I ask because I get the feeling that you're spending more time making yourself seem unsupspicious, than simply answering questions.What makes you think this?
Why are you pushing Toaster to make a kill so early in D1?I'm not pushing for him to kill, I just want to see if he'll do it.
My... someone sounds awfully anxious and eager to please...*Tips hat*
Everyone: Are you a Shakerag? Some people claim that they are not one, so I want to see who is and who isn't. Is this too similar to rolefishing?
TheDarkStar: Why are you asking for our approval? You sound nervous.
Random : The power just pick random people as target so .....
I will take that to mean: "Yes, the reason I actioned Jack A T and Shakerag at the start of the day was because I cannot determine the target of that action."
Don't question my logic, Jim.Question ALL the logic!
I'd guess it means that the ability auto-activates and auto-targets.Like a SureLock(R) Homing missile?
Since I was posting from my phone (!) I couldn't be bothered to calculate it. :PDay will end: not soon.
Could we get a more informative date to go off of or is the lack of a deadline part of the fun?
Mafias are scum and Shakerags are ""TOWN"", Atleast that what I assume for now ....
Everyone Role ideas? what do you want if I choose you?
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?To see if he's true to his word, basically.
I'd like to be more specific, but then it would serve no purpose because Toaster can see what I'm typing, and use that to deduce my actions.
Basically.
Toaster:Shakerag: The title says I must kill you. Do you agree y/nNooooooo. You have to kill your -own- Shakerag. I am not the Shakerag you are looking for.
Jim G: You typically avoid the crazier games. Have you gotten in over your head here?
I think so.
In ridiculous games like this I care less about winning or losing since random bullshit happens a lot of the time that wins or loses game. Instead I will just try to have fun. This game is a semi-bastard and I will be one too.
I can confirm I got a gun. I can now daykill someone. Helpfully, I can target myself with this. So... two lynches today go go go?
Honestly I'd rather see you use it on who you feel like rather than try to gather some kind of consensus.
Can't answer, having mental breakdown, 4mask will be with you later when he's not afraid of dying in the immediate future.
Unvote Varee, I have now confirmed that if he is a liar, he’s at least a consistent liar.
Cheeetar: Thanks for the answers.Vector: To what extent is congeniality suspicious?
I see it as a sort of "entry scumtell." It's something worth commenting on and makes the person a worthy target of questioning, but not in and of itself worth hanging someone over. Similarly, so is unusual rudeness. I'm looking for variations from a baseline. I'm realizing now that the Mafia baseline level of aggression may have changed substantially since the last time I played.
Damn There more than 2 mafia ....
TolyK: If there's a daykill with very little time left in the day, is it automatically extended? Are votes reset?No, there will not be an automatic extension after a daykill.
Need to know if we'd have time to discuss a second lynch.
= Extensions: players have 2 extensions, can only use one per day. Up to 2 extensions per day at 48 hours each (+ mod extensions).
= Shorten: requires >50% of living players to vote shorten.
= No hammers!
TolyK: How many votes to hammer? >50%?I ink he was making a reference to the fact that Toaster is the Hammerer and things.
TolyK: How many votes to hammer? >50%?I ink he was making a reference to the fact that Toaster is the Hammerer and things.
I expect a cultist team.Why?
Jack A T: your second role, the one you say doesn't give you a new wincon: does it even have a spot for a wincon? Like, does it say "WINCON: " or whatever?4maskwolf: There is a spot in my second role for a wincon. It holds no wincon, but does have an angle-bracketed comment saying
Can't answer, having mental breakdown, 4mask will be with you later when he's not afraid of dying in the immediate future.You're back, but I'll say this anyway: I believe this is the part where I link to something sort of amusing. (http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2013/2013oncj160/2013oncj160.html) Take breaks from Mafia when you need to. Your life is more important than the game.
Everyone: Are you a Shakerag? Some people claim that they are not one, so I want to see who is and who isn't. Is this too similar to rolefishing?TheDarkStar: As I do not yet have any idea of what being a Shakerag or not means in this game, I am not willing to reveal this yet.
Vector: I get the impression you put little thought into this. You would be as willing as normally to vote Toaster?Vector: It's been a while. How will Toaster's hammereriness affect your voting today?Jack AT: Not at all. I may have to try to address more arguments to him vis-a-vis someone's scummitude or towniness, but it's not going to influence my vote.
And the reason I gave him one is because I don't trust him. All actions are public, so if he shoots someone in the face, then we'll know he's dangerous.mastahcheese: ... does Toaster only have the kill available today? If not, did you even minimally consider the possibility that the public actions thing is temporary?
Cheeetar: you say you have an outsider role: is your wincon listed? If so, how?
If I missed a wincon, it should be "WINCON: <none>".Mmk. Good to know. I'm still interested in hearing the answer to my pm question though.
Just clearing that up.
Varee has actioned Jack A T and Shakerag.
Shoot I'm late, I'll go back and look through to see the questions for me.*bang*
Jack A T, Shakerag- Did you receive any notification of this, or do you know in any way what Varee did to you?Cheeetar: No, and no notification of anything happening to me.
I agree; I do wish everyone should show up sooner than later, but if you can't just let us know why.Shoot I'm late, I'll go back and look through to see the questions for me.*bang*
Also, it's the weekend, don't worry. There are several others who still haven't shown up.
Flabort:[1] Can you give yourself a role with the wincon of "If you survive to Day 2, you win." [2] What restrictions are there on the roles you can give?[1] I don't know, but I would expect it would make it really hard for me to survive to Day 2. Probably, except for that.
Don't try to out-guess the mod!Yeah, if we didn't learn that in BYOR13, this should teach us.
However, I'm feeling kind of sorry for Wuba's inbox. :p
Mastahcheese, the opening post of Day 1 strongly implied that there was a theme for the day- dwarves, hammers, etc. Did you presume that Toaster would always be the hammerer (and thus unlynchable)? If not, why did you then presume that actions would always be public?I figured there would always be someone who is the hammerer, not neccassarily Toaster, but that's who it happens to be.
Well, let's say I tried to cheat the system, such as Toaster's "The role that wins KYOSN". How would Wuba or TolyK react?I'd probably be all like, "Whoa."
On the other hand, if I didn't try to, and submitted TheDarkStar's request of "Velociraptor", it might result in an actual role, possibly with a kill even.
Well, let's say I tried to cheat the system, such as Toaster's "The role that wins KYOSN". How would Wuba or TolyK react?I'd probably be all like, "Whoa."
On the other hand, if I didn't try to, and submitted TheDarkStar's request of "Velociraptor", it might result in an actual role, possibly with a kill even.
And TolyK would be all like, "Dude."
And then we'd both be like, "Dang."
But then you probably would hate us.
@TDS,WOLF: the power I got identify player as mafia or shakerags so I assume shakerags are town.
I can give two tonight, and after that the rate may or may not be slowed to every-other-night depending on whether I can replicate something.
I may or may not give Velociraptor, it was just an example since I've only received four ideas before your own just now.
Flabort: I see you mentioned me and wanted to know about my playstyle. (There are large indicators of my playstyle in previous games, but not sure how much you care to meta). I can't seem to find your question though... heh.
Will post tomorrow. Doing math shit.Matrix algebra, by any chance? XD
Will post tomorrow. Doing math shit.Matrix algebra, by any chance? XD
Flabort: I see you mentioned me and wanted to know about my playstyle. (There are large indicators of my playstyle in previous games, but not sure how much you care to meta). I can't seem to find your question though... heh.SuperBlackCat: My question directed at you was the last one in This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5790124#msg5790124).
I suppose it could be risky. The possibility is certainly there. Would you prefer I give you a pistol? Would you like one Day 2?
And the reason I gave him one is because I don't trust him. All actions are public, so if he shoots someone in the face, then we'll know he's dangerous.
I suppose I could be the one getting killed, but meh.
Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?Didn't I just answer this?
What the fuck are you talking about?Don't question my logic, Jim.
Fair enough. What is your plan for having fun?
On Wincons
For the record, when I got the ability from Mastahcheese, it arrived in the form of an additional secondary role. It had a rolename, ability list, and crucially, a line for a wincon! The wincon line was blank, but it was present. As such, I totally believe someone could have two wincons.
To Explain: My second role has no spot for a wincon, and after what Toaster said I asked the mod about that. He gave me a nonanswer, so I'm asking you all.
I suspected that Shakerag = scum at the time, so I was kind of cautious.
Everyone: Thoughts on the above suggestion? Do you support it? Should anything be changed?
@TDS,WOLF: the power I got identify player as mafia or shakerags so I assume shakerags are town.
@Flabort: well.... I don't have any reason to kill anyone just yet so.... Err noone?
Also I kinda have to vote whoever votes me due to popular request.
Matrix algebra, by any chance? XD
Actually, yes.
Jim: One of my power identify player as shakerags or mafias so that why I say Shakerags are "town".
I dont really want to OMGUS but I kinda need to due to a popular request :P
I suppose it could be risky. The possibility is certainly there. Would you prefer I give you a pistol? Would you like one Day 2?
Yes.And the reason I gave him one is because I don't trust him. All actions are public, so if he shoots someone in the face, then we'll know he's dangerous.
I suppose I could be the one getting killed, but meh.
So offering Toaster a daykill was part of some elaborate gambit to incriminate himself by using tools that you offered him?
That's really silly. Like, really, really, really silly. Like, goodness gracious wow that's silly.
Your mistake is that the tools themselves are not scummy, nor is using the tools. Of course, it's the how and why that they are used, but the act alone of using it won't incriminate him.
If he waffles about and tries to gather some consensus from everybody about who to kill then yeah he'll be scum.Cheese: if you don't feel comfortable with Toaster, why give him a pistol?Didn't I just answer this?
Hey, brah, I didn't mangle your quote.Don't question my logic, Jim.
A convincing rebuttal.
I've thought about it and I think you're probably scum. I think this is some dumb scum gambit rather than just a generally dumb gambit.
mastahcheese.
<voting for Mastahcheese>
Can you explain this a bit more? I can't quite see your logic here - what is it that makes you think it's a scum gambit rather than a town gambit?
Best of luck Tiruin! :(<voting for Mastahcheese>
Can you explain this a bit more? I can't quite see your logic here - what is it that makes you think it's a scum gambit rather than a town gambit?
TDS: I don't understand your not understanding Jim Groovester's logic, and I note that your questioning of it is suspiciously parallel to Mastahcheese's subsequent questioning of it. What makes you think it's as likely (or more likely) to be a town gambit to hand out free daykills?
Vote Persus13, do you think there are direct analogues to town/mafia/third party in this game?Yes.
First, why are you defending Jim? Second, why are you directing a question about Mastahcheese's posting to me? Third, why are you asking only me these questions and not mastahcheese, who also had similar points? Fourth, why does it make me suspicious when someone else who I have no control over decides to repeat me ideas?
As for why I don't get Jim's logic, he says that mastahcheese is doing a really dumb gambit, and then he says that it's definitely a dumb scum gambit without any supporting evidence for the second part. He also says mastahcheese is scum without anything backing that up. (Jim: Why?)
Now that I've looked at those details, Jim seems just a bit suspicious.
Can you explain this a bit more? I can't quite see your logic here - what is it that makes you think it's a scum gambit rather than a town gambit?
Now that I've looked at those details, Jim seems just a bit suspicious.
What DarkStar said.
Also, if you think I'm scum, then why do you want a gun from me?
For that matter, why would I give you one?
I can easily imagine you just going "Thanks, bruh" and turning around and shooting me in the face, which would hardly be sporting.
I'm not meaning to sound mean, but it's amusing to me that you're going "Yes, I want a weapon, you scum."
Hi Persus13! Thank you for answering my question. Yeah, my wincon is all sorts of weird- for all I know, it's parallel to a town wincon. I mentioned earlier: TolyK said I would know how to win by the end of Day 3.
What do you think of this whole thing about Mastahcheese's gambit?
Unvote Persus13.First, why are you defending Jim? Second, why are you directing a question about Mastahcheese's posting to me? Third, why are you asking only me these questions and not mastahcheese, who also had similar points? Fourth, why does it make me suspicious when someone else who I have no control over decides to repeat me ideas?
As for why I don't get Jim's logic, he says that mastahcheese is doing a really dumb gambit, and then he says that it's definitely a dumb scum gambit without any supporting evidence for the second part. He also says mastahcheese is scum without anything backing that up. (Jim: Why?)
Now that I've looked at those details, Jim seems just a bit suspicious.
1) I also think (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5792843#msg5792843) Mastahcheese is suspicious.
2) I'm asking you a question about your own post- I merely noted how suspicious it was for somebody to parrot you so shortly after.
3) Mastahcheese is obligated to defend himself, and he also had a bit more content than your simple request for 'more explanation' on something that seemed pretty simple.
4) Because the scum is a team. If somebody scummy thinks you make a lot of sense, maybe they have a reason other than their conviction in your logic to agree with you?
I would've thought the dumb gambit itself was... kind of explanation enough for suspicion. Certainly, enough to pressure somebody. Why didn't you respond when I asked "Why is it just as or more likely for it to be a town gambit"?
Also: TheDarkStar
Can you explain this a bit more? I can't quite see your logic here - what is it that makes you think it's a scum gambit rather than a town gambit?
If we examine the facts, the answer to your question arises quite readily.
Firstly, we note that it is an objectively bad idea for anybody who is town to hand daykills out to people they suspect. Like, seriously, why?
Secondly, we note the eagerness of mastahcheese as he waits to see if Toaster will use it or not.
Thirdly, we note the contrived nature of his suspicions of Toaster at the beginning of the game. Toaster answered mastahcheese's question of 'How does actions being public affect your plans?' with 'I have nothing to hide.', to which mastahcheese decides he doesn't trust Toaster and hands him a daykill with an apparent dare to use it.
With these facts combined, we deduce the following: that mastahcheese is waiting for Toaster to use the daykill so that he can vote Toaster for it. It is far likelier, in my opinion, for the player who performed this gambit to be scum, rather than town, and hence my vote on him.Now that I've looked at those details, Jim seems just a bit suspicious.
Perfunctory additional suspicion. You didn't even wait for my answer.
If I had a previous vote, Unvote.
TheDarkStar, why are you defending Mastahcheese? He just tried to gambit D1 in a situation where it wasn't really a) worth a gambit and b) conclusive enough evidence to condemn the person in question. Do you think his gambit was worth it, and if so, why?
Jim Groovester: why do you think that had Toaster used popular vote to determine who to kill he would be scum? Do you think he is scummy because he was/is considering doing so? Why?
PPE #2:
SBC: Why wouldn't you take a vote from the person who you thought was scummy? Taking the vote from the person who thinks differently than you would seem to hinder the town's scumhunting efforts by removing the ability of that person to voice their opinions as effectively.
I figured there would always be someone who is the hammerer, not neccassarily Toaster, but that's who it happens to be.Cheese built a plan around mechanics that he thought little about, while missing a mechanic that undermined his entire plan. Things that should have been obvious have "slipped his mind (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5790527#msg5790527)" or been "missed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5793114#msg5793114)" by him throughout the game. I expect those hunting scum to pay rather a bit more attention than mastahcheese has been paying to the game. Of course, one doesn't need to think about the game when one decides not to scumhunt.
I didn't get the idea that the theme was only for the day. (I was honestly rather confused by it, and didn't get much out of it other than "public actions" and Toaster being the hammerer)
I assumed actions would always be public because the idea of that failling to stay in effect never crossed my mind.
Clearly, I haven't put a lot of thought into rules like that.
...Also, wait, Toast is unlynchable? I must have missed that part...
Oh wait, he could just adamantine hammer himself, that's how it would-
I'm an idiot. Unvote, because that would do nothing.
SuperBlackCat: How would you treat a vote-stealing power if you had it? How would you treat it in another player?Interesting. How incorrect would you have to think a vote is for you to steal it? Also, I notice you didn't answer the second question. Do answer it.
I would probably steal the vote of whoever I didn't think was voting correctly? Basically giving me a +1 and -1 Vote.
RL kicked me in the many vital areas. Face, side and back. Figuratively.Tiruin: I hope you recover soon and well. Feel free to take whatever time off you need. Have something amusing from 2003 to read (https://web.archive.org/web/20080906090056/http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030912.wonta0912/BNStory/National/#letter).
Will get a post in--today. Recuperating from breakdown + resolved issues.
1. Your link goes to a question that is more about clarification (like me asking Jim what he meant) than suspicion. The answer to the questions reflects a difference on how you and cheese think the rules are. Why, exactly, do you find mastahcheese suspicous and why aren't you voting him for it?
2. Why does it make me more suspicious suspicious than mastahcheese that my words were repeated? This is what you're implying, given that you're questioning me rather than him about it.
3. What you say is true, but it does not answer my question. Why have you asked mastahcheese no questions? What is it that makes him suspicious to you?
4. Because scum is a team, they would be able to coordinate to avoid awkward situations like that. Also, the most common reason for scum agreeing with someone else is not that they are scum; it's that someone is barking up the wrong tree and the scum want to keep it that way.
Un-FOS Jim. I get your logic now; however, why haven't you been questioning cheese about this?
What makes you think it's as likely (or more likely) to be a town gambit to hand out free daykills?
Jim Groovester: why do you think that had Toaster used popular vote to determine who to kill he would be scum? Do you think he is scummy because he was/is considering doing so? Why?
Un-FOS Jim. I get your logic now; however, why haven't you been questioning cheese about this?
Just a note to all...What about the -1 out of 10 situations where it's not okay?
Missing from this game due to IRL problems or situations is 110% OK, and I'd like to wish everyone in such a situation either a speedy workaround or just to feel better.
That said, remember that extensions are on a per-player basis, so use liberally.
No.Varee has actioned Jack A T and Shakerag.
Jack A T, Shakerag- Did you receive any notification of this, or do you know in any way what Varee did to you?
Shakerag, to what extent did you expect to be lynched Day 1 when signing up for this game?In reality, low. I think from KWN everyone would likely assume that the real goal of the game is not to kill me (as a player).
Shakerag: How do you know that you aren't Toaster's Shakerag? Do you know whose Shakerag you are?Because I'm not a Shakerag at all? Unless we want to argue the state of being a Shakerag is a hidden attribute ...
And I give a shit ... why? Also, how sure are you on that number of Shakerags in the game you quoted earlier?
Shakerag: My favorite recipe is Curry with Rice :D
And why shouldn't he?What the fuck are you talking about?Don't question my logic, Jim.
Oh, but you are my Shakerag. I created you!Is that a fact?
I suspect there are more Shakerags than not.I suspect that may not be correct. I may clarify later.
Well, let's say I tried to cheat the system, such as Toaster's "The role that wins KYOSN". How would Wuba or TolyK react?
4) Because the scum is a team. If somebody scummy thinks you make a lot of sense, maybe they have a reason other than their conviction in your logic to agree with you?
I'm not anti-town. As far as I can see, I have some crazy outsider wincon, and asking TolyK he literally said I wouldn't know how to play to win until the end of Day 3. So, y'know. If I'm a godfather role, I might have screwed myself?
Toaster:Oh, but you are my Shakerag. I created you!Is that a fact?
flabort: What do the role suggestions you have received tell you about the people who suggested them, and what do you think of the suggestions?So far I have not recieved suggestions from over half the players, including Shakerag, GayArchaea, Varee, Tiruin, Jim Groovester, Persus13, 4maskwolf, Mastahcheese, or Superblackcat; these players either suspect a trap, haven't read my request that everyone give a suggestion, or just don't want anything else because their roles are already perfect. This is a null tell for all of them, meaning it doesn't affect my reads yet.
Or just don't GAF and/or hate "ask everyone" questions.flabort: What do the role suggestions you have received tell you about the people who suggested them, and what do you think of the suggestions?So far I have not recieved suggestions from over half the players, including Shakerag, GayArchaea, Varee, Tiruin, Jim Groovester, Persus13, 4maskwolf, Mastahcheese, or Superblackcat; these players either suspect a trap, haven't read my request that everyone give a suggestion, or just don't want anything else because their roles are already perfect. This is a null tell for all of them, meaning it doesn't affect my reads yet.
Shakerag How come your answers are so short? What are your reads so far?Because work. My reads are that everyone is playing about how I'd expect for D1.
Actually, yeah, that too. Thank you, Shakerag Prime, I wanted to say something along those lines but couldn't remember it.Or just don't GAF and/or hate "ask everyone" questions.flabort: What do the role suggestions you have received tell you about the people who suggested them, and what do you think of the suggestions?So far I have not recieved suggestions from over half the players, including Shakerag, GayArchaea, Varee, Tiruin, Jim Groovester, Persus13, 4maskwolf, Mastahcheese, or Superblackcat; these players either suspect a trap, haven't read my request that everyone give a suggestion, or just don't want anything else because their roles are already perfect. This is a null tell for all of them, meaning it doesn't affect my reads yet.
Beware Greek's bearing gifts... Or anyone in a game of mafia bearing gifts, for that matter. I'll pass.flabort: What do the role suggestions you have received tell you about the people who suggested them, and what do you think of the suggestions?So far I have not recieved suggestions from over half the players, including Shakerag, GayArchaea, Varee, Tiruin, Jim Groovester, Persus13, 4maskwolf, Mastahcheese, or Superblackcat; these players either suspect a trap, haven't read my request that everyone give a suggestion, or just don't want anything else because their roles are already perfect. This is a null tell for all of them, meaning it doesn't affect my reads yet.
Everyone else What do you think about the accusation by Jim Groovester that TheDarkStar might only be pretending to scum hunt?Eh? I'll need to take another look at it to be sure, but the un-FOS by TDS is just... what?
Everyone else Is it indicative of Jim's motives, or is it a well founded accusation?Indicative of Jim's motives... are you implying lyncher? Regardless, I don't see anything in his statement that sets off any alarm bells, but I'll take another look.
I'd really rather you not. Partly due to my great distaste for third-party hating, but also because he didn't have to claim his alignment. He could have kept his mouth shut. While I suppose he could be a scum-aligned third-party doing a gambit (betting that we don't lynch him now so that he's in the clear later), I don't take third-partyness to be major enough for an automatic lynch. Particularly when he could be town-sided. Granted, it's your daykill and you can do what you want with it.I'm not anti-town. As far as I can see, I have some crazy outsider wincon, and asking TolyK he literally said I wouldn't know how to play to win until the end of Day 3. So, y'know. If I'm a godfather role, I might have screwed myself?More importantly, are you pro-town? Why should I not shoot you right now, Cheeetar?
Everyone else What do you think about the accusation by Jim Groovester that TheDarkStar might only be pretending to scum hunt? Is it indicative of Jim's motives, or is it a well founded accusation?I think they're splendid. Marvelous. Genius. Intricate and amusing.
4) They can, but within the context it was suspicious.Oh? Explain, because I'm not seeing it. Yes, the scum might be able to coordinate, I've heard that argument, but the natural reaction of scum players is to disassociate themselves from each other, to not be seen as colluding. While it is certainly possible that a mastahcheese/TheDarkStar scumteam could set up something like that, it seems unlikely to me on day one.
Toaster:More importantly, are you pro-town? Why should I not shoot you right now, Cheeetar?I'd really rather you not. Partly due to my great distaste for third-party hating, but also because he didn't have to claim his alignment. He could have kept his mouth shut. While I suppose he could be a scum-aligned third-party doing a gambit (betting that we don't lynch him now so that he's in the clear later), I don't take third-partyness to be major enough for an automatic lynch. Particularly when he could be town-sided. Granted, it's your daykill and you can do what you want with it.
I'm just not seeing anything but a house of straw here, please enlighten me.More importantly, are you pro-town? Why should I not shoot you right now, Cheeetar?I don't have an explicit town win condition ("You win when all members of the mafia faction are dead."), no. I don't know what I am, but I'm certain enough that I'm not malignant to town to be upfront with my weird wincon stuff. Don't shoot me because I hope you can see that I'm attempting to hunt scum.
mastahcheese: Who, aside from Toaster, do you think is scummy? What, in your eyes, have you contributed to the effort to hunt scum?Aside from Toaster? Not really sure.
mastahcheese:That particular bit was a joke, as I had already answered his above questions that you snipped out.And why shouldn't he?What the fuck are you talking about?Don't question my logic, Jim.
Mastahcheese, SuperBlackCat If I were to gift either of you the role "Nine Lives", how would you react? If I were to give you "Cat o' Nine Tails", how would you react?If I got Nine Lives, I'd be estatic, because it's basically what won the game for me that one time.
Mastahcheese: You of all people should know the dangers of giving out daykills. There's a reason Toaster is current king of the mafia. If you suspect Toaster, you really think it is the best idea to gambit by giving him a weapon to destroy the town?Of course I think it's the best idea.
Granted, it's your daykill and you can do what you want with it.Why are you acting so afraid of him?
Erm... afraid?Granted, it's your daykill and you can do what you want with it.Why are you acting so afraid of him?
You're soundly awfully submissive.
Do you fear Toaster now?
Everyone else What do you think about the accusation by Jim Groovester that TheDarkStar might only be pretending to scum hunt? Is it indicative of Jim's motives, or is it a well founded accusation?I don't know. You didn't post any places where this might be the case. How can I judge that without seeing it?!
Jim Groovester How come you are arguing about whether or not being a Shakerag is to be anti-town or not? Is it because you are neither a Shakerag nor a Town? Can you say that your alignment is pro-town (whichever side town may be), though?
Mastahcheese: You of all people should know the dangers of giving out daykills. There's a reason Toaster is current king of the mafia. If you suspect Toaster, you really think it is the best idea to gambit by giving him a weapon to destroy the town?Of course I think it's the best idea.
Toaster knows better than anyone the power of a daykill, because of my own stupidity. Which is exactly why I'm not making the same mistake twice.
The real question is this: if I'm so dangerous, being capable of handing out daykills like candy on Halloween, why hasn't Toaster done everyone a favor and shoot me already?
Unless of course, having an increase in random deaths benifits him somehow, or if he's hoping for more guns.
It is, after all, a one-shot weapon.
Could you be lazier?Easily.
Have you no response to my points about how bad your gambit is? Or a response or defense of your own?Perhaps the gambit does look bad, but the fact is that my beef is with Toaster, not you.
Sorry to hear it, Vector. Absence in these situations is perfectly understandable.1. Your link goes to a question that is more about clarification (like me asking Jim what he meant) than suspicion. The answer to the questions reflects a difference on how you and cheese think the rules are. Why, exactly, do you find mastahcheese suspicous and why aren't you voting him for it?
2. Why does it make me more suspicious suspicious than mastahcheese that my words were repeated? This is what you're implying, given that you're questioning me rather than him about it.
3. What you say is true, but it does not answer my question. Why have you asked mastahcheese no questions? What is it that makes him suspicious to you?
4. Because scum is a team, they would be able to coordinate to avoid awkward situations like that. Also, the most common reason for scum agreeing with someone else is not that they are scum; it's that someone is barking up the wrong tree and the scum want to keep it that way.
1. I hoped by answering those questions it would both illuminate how stupid the assumption was- I was willing to give mastahcheese the benefit of the doubt for his somewhat suspicious play at the time (perhaps just made a stupid assumption, everybody makes mistakes etc.) I'm not voting him because I find you more suspicious.
2. You're more suspicious for how you reacted to Jim voting for somebody else- mastahcheese backing you up on it is still suspicious though.
3. I'm pursuing you instead! Sorry buddy. Everything else is already covered by Jim anyway.
4. Eh- WIFOM. (We would've co-ordinated to make it seem like we didn't co-ordinate!)Un-FOS Jim. I get your logic now; however, why haven't you been questioning cheese about this?
Yeesh. Can you get more timid? An un-FoS is just... meek.
TDS, let me ask you this again, because you've yet to answer it!What makes you think it's as likely (or more likely) to be a town gambit to hand out free daykills?
TDS: Why do you think that Cheeetar is defending Jim, as you say at Note Two? Also, what makes you think that Jim wasn't questioning mastahcheese, which you say at Note Five?
I may or may not. My first wincon is not.Jim Groovester How come you are arguing about whether or not being a Shakerag is to be anti-town or not? Is it because you are neither a Shakerag nor a Town? Can you say that your alignment is pro-town (whichever side town may be), though?
I wasn't aware I was making these arguments. To my recollection I have not made any statement about whether I think being a Shakerag is town or anti-town.
I have the town win condition. Don't you?
1. After Jim explained his reasoning, I understood why he found cheese scummy. Beforehand, I found him mildly suspicious because he seemed to make an accusation without much of a reason. Now that I understand his logic, though, I see what he's thinking and that he does have a real case. However, you avoided the question I asked - you said that you found cheese suspicious, but you still haven't provided an actual reason.
2. I asked for clarification on Jim's argument - how does that make me suspicious?
3. Ok, you're scumhunting me. Why aren't you simultaneously scumhunting cheese, who you've said is also suspicious?
4. Yeah, it ends up being WIFOM either way, so this point can't really be argued much more.
Additional question:
5. Oops, I thought I answered that earlier. As for my answer: I never asserted that one was more likely than the other. Now that I've seen Jim's case I would agree with him that it's fairly scummy. Before that, I had no real opinion on it.
PPE: Thank you, Toaster. A clearly wonderful example of how Wuba can interpret everything creatively. Now, why are you threatening Cheeetar for not knowing if he's anti-town when I can see multiple other players in the same situation, and what are your reads on each other player?
I'd really rather you not. Partly due to my great distaste for third-party hating, but also because he didn't have to claim his alignment. He could have kept his mouth shut. While I suppose he could be a scum-aligned third-party doing a gambit (betting that we don't lynch him now so that he's in the clear later), I don't take third-partyness to be major enough for an automatic lynch. Particularly when he could be town-sided. Granted, it's your daykill and you can do what you want with it.
Apparantly people don't make plans as much as I thought to give anything other than "lol, I have no plans", and I haven't worked up the effort to ask something else.
I was actually pointing out how he has someone dangerous in front of him, and the means to dispatch said dangerous person.
...and who acted the most psychotic to the absurd situation of a dangerous person being handed a loaded firearm.
... Are you actually dangerous, or...?I was actually pointing out how he has someone dangerous in front of him, and the means to dispatch said dangerous person.
"EVERYONE LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW DANGEROUS I AM!"
"EVERYONE LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW DANGEROUS I AM!"
Have you no response to my points about how bad your gambit is? Or a response or defense of your own?Perhaps the gambit does look bad, but the fact is that my beef is with Toaster, not you.
And no, I don't intend to defend myself. At least not with words, yet.
I'll explain later. Maybe.
And no, I don't intend to defend myself. At least not with words, yet.
Jim, what will you do if mastahcheese does not respond to what you say? Why did you decide to not ask him any questions? Why haven't you pressured him for a response?
ALL: Where does it say in the rules that our actions are public?
Cheetar,TDS,Jim: Why have you guys been more focused on mastahcheese as opposed to Toaster? He's the one that is dangerous, and in my opinion, seems the better person to try to get a vibe off of. Not even for scum or not scum, but role wise, and , for me at least, playstyle wise.
Flabort I'm very confused about your numbering system for our names. Is there a method to the madness, or is it just random numbering. Also, I'll volunteer for a power, I want something that keeps me alive, like a bulletproof vest or something along those lines.Which numbering system?
Because this is the random bullshit you were earlier complaining might take you out of the game prematurely?
Why would I care if Toaster's dangerous if it doesn't indicate anything about his alignment?
Jack A T He is clearly concerned about the secondary wincons, and his suggestion would make the game slightly more traditional. It's also very specific, and my ability to create roles does not lend itself to something so specific (It literally has the words "but not too specific" in it). He is afraid of killing members of the town with it, which is why he specified non-lethally, he's afraid of it's owner being killed reinstating the wincons, which is why he specified weather or not it's owner is alive, and permanently. Really, it's a case of paranoia; this kind of paranoia comes from not wanting to be caught, which leads me to believe he may be anti-town. He's also trying to game the system really hard, with so many clauses in the role name. Jack A T.This vote depends on a set of unsupported leaps. While I can see how you see fear (I think "caution" is a better word) in my use of system-gaming good practices (you know how people word Wish spells carefully to avoid DM wish twisting?), you jump from that to "paranoia" without explanation. From there, you use the term "paranoia" to leap over to "not wanting to be caught" without explanation. It's as if your case is built on a game of Word Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_Association), with you using your choice to use the word "afraid" to allow you to use "paranoia" to allow you to use "not wanting to be caught." I also love how this little vocabulary game or whatever it is got you from "afraid of killing members of the town with [my role]" to "may be anti-town" and voteworthy. Can you explain that?
This [not giving a suggestion] is a null tell for all of them, meaning it doesn't affect my reads yet.What could/will make it affect your reads?
Everyone else What do you think about the accusation by Jim Groovester that TheDarkStar might only be pretending to scum hunt? Is it indicative of Jim's motives, or is it a well founded accusation?Not bad, but not as strong as the cheese work. TheDarkStar always comes off to me as if he's putting less effort in than most, but this fos/unfos thing is unusually weak for him. What matters most, though, is how TheDarkStar responds (which he really should do). As for the second question, it doesn't tell me much about Jim's motives (whether pro- or anti-town) (makes sense from either town or mafia, and doesn't give a strong third-party feel), and I've already commented on my view of how well-founded the accusation is.
I am playing under the assumption of town, though, since my first wincon is decidedly pro-town.And what is that wincon?
The real question is this: if I'm so dangerous, being capable of handing out daykills like candy on Halloween, why hasn't Toaster done everyone a favor and shoot me already?...That's it, I'm calling it now: you've got some sort of kill protection, and think you can spin Toaster as scum if you can get him to shoot you (or anyone else, for that matter).
ALL: Where does it say in the rules that our actions are public?Superblackcat: Day 1 opening:
Meanwhile, every time you interact with anyone it will be publicly announced.Also, the quote button is your friend. So, for that matter, are links. Can you link to the 4mask post you're referring to in the first of your two recent posts?
Cheetar,TDS,Jim: Why have you guys been more focused on mastahcheese as opposed to Toaster? He's the one that is dangerous, and in my opinion, seems the better person to try to get a vibe off of. Not even for scum or not scum, but role wise, and , for me at least, playstyle wise.What makes the impulsive arms dealer less dangerous than the person he threw a gun at? Also, shouldn't "scum or not scum" be rather a bit more important than hunting for roletells and getting a basic idea of playstyles? Finally, what led you to feel that cheese needed your defense?
Because this is the random bullshit you were earlier complaining might take you out of the game prematurely?
What could/will make it affect your reads?Probably once/if almost everyone has a suggestion/request, the remaining 2-3 players will be seen as hold-outs, which could negatively or possitively affect my read on them by simply increasing the magnitude of the read a small amount.
And what is that wincon?It's basically an Anti-Ally.
Speaking of leaping to conclusions, thank you Jack.Because this is the random bullshit you were earlier complaining might take you out of the game prematurely?
That's probably true, but eliminating dangerous players (i.e. skilled, good, experienced, etc.) for no other reason than they are dangerous is a dumb and inelegant strategy.
Cheeetar: Fair enough re teams.
If you're hunting scum, who do you suspect and why?
Cheetar,TDS,Jim: Why have you guys been more focused on mastahcheese as opposed to Toaster? He's the one that is dangerous, and in my opinion, seems the better person to try to get a vibe off of. Not even for scum or not scum, but role wise, and , for me at least, playstyle wise.
Mods: Votecount, please....
1. After Jim explained his reasoning, I understood why he found cheese scummy. Beforehand, I found him mildly suspicious because he seemed to make an accusation without much of a reason. Now that I understand his logic, though, I see what he's thinking and that he does have a real case. However, you avoided the question I asked - you said that you found cheese suspicious, but you still haven't provided an actual reason.
2. I asked for clarification on Jim's argument - how does that make me suspicious?
3. Ok, you're scumhunting me. Why aren't you simultaneously scumhunting cheese, who you've said is also suspicious?
4. Yeah, it ends up being WIFOM either way, so this point can't really be argued much more.
Additional question:
5. Oops, I thought I answered that earlier. As for my answer: I never asserted that one was more likely than the other. Now that I've seen Jim's case I would agree with him that it's fairly scummy. Before that, I had no real opinion on it.
Sure. You were only marginally suspicious initially (hence only an FoS and a question.) Moving on my initial FoS and onto the reasons I voted for you:
a) Why did you twig so hard at being FoS'd? You got super defensive super fast for what was one statement and a question.
b) Why did you question Jim's case when you say you had 'no real opinion' on it- why did you then FoS Jim for something you had no read on? Were you simply making yourself seen to be posting?
c) Why were you so quick to tell me I should be focusing on mastahcheese instead, and why do you continue to assert that I have no business scumhunting by focusing on you?
Also, why did you FoS me before even hearing my response? And what do you make of me calling your suspicion perfunctory? To clarify, I'm suggesting that your FoS was only going through the motions. You only did it to make sure you looked like you were scumhunting.
Cheetar,TDS,Jim: Why have you guys been more focused on mastahcheese as opposed to Toaster? He's the one that is dangerous, and in my opinion, seems the better person to try to get a vibe off of. Not even for scum or not scum, but role wise, and , for me at least, playstyle wise.
Wut.
Wut.
This.
Also, it doesn't make me want to change my vote. "If you vote me, X terrible things will happen and everyone will die" is a common thing that scum say when lots of people vote for them in a game like this.
To Hammer: Majority at Day EndDo you mean majority or plurality, because there is an important difference there.
Like I said, I could be lying.Wut.
This.
Also, it doesn't make me want to change my vote. "If you vote me, X terrible things will happen and everyone will die" is a common thing that scum say when lots of people vote for them in a game like this.
EBWOP: cheese, why aren't you revealing your information? Why are you so vague? Why are you trying to make us so uncertain?
Like I said, I could be lying.Wut.
This.
Also, it doesn't make me want to change my vote. "If you vote me, X terrible things will happen and everyone will die" is a common thing that scum say when lots of people vote for them in a game like this.
EBWOP: cheese, why aren't you revealing your information? Why are you so vague? Why are you trying to make us so uncertain?
I can't be concise on my role, because than you would know to much, and knowledge is power, and with great power comes great responsibility, and I don't consider the majority of people to be responisible.
So instead I hand out illegal weapons and spin crap that makes even the mod question my sanity.
The person with the most votes.To Hammer: Majority at Day EndDo you mean majority or plurality, because there is an important difference there.
So instead I hand out illegal weapons and spin crap that makes even the mod question my sanity.You must be new here... :D
So plurality. Okay, that's good to know.The person with the most votes.To Hammer: Majority at Day EndDo you mean majority or plurality, because there is an important difference there.
If two have the same amount, there might be tiebreaks.
Jack: No, it's not because of the gambit.mastahcheese: So you're just causing chaos for the sake of chaos? Not a town thing to do.
It's because there is no gambit. You're just assuming there is one.
I guess kids do like violence!The person with the most votes.To Hammer: Majority at Day EndDo you mean majority or plurality, because there is an important difference there.
If two have the same amount, there might be tiebreaks.So instead I hand out illegal weapons and spin crap that makes even the mod question my sanity.You must be new here... :D
I'm the one who hands out illegal weapons.
Spinning crap is not recommended since centripetal acceleration.
EBWODP:...
TolyK: Is there any game-related reason for Jim Groovester's vote for cheese to be listed in the votecount as "Jimbot"?
... Are you actually dangerous, or...?
Toaster: I'm not trying to bait you, I wasn't even talking to you.
And you're dangerous because reasons.
Toaster: Did mastahcheese ask you to do anything with the gun when he passed it to you?
Besides the weapon I've already been handed? Probably, yes. Right this second, no, but I'm not afraid of killing someone I strongly suspect.Really?
*Passes Toaster a gun*
I want to see if you'll make due on that, Toaster
Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.
Wat.The gun fires backwards.
Cheese, explain this right now.
TolyK: If we lynch without a hammerer, will our lynch target die?Not as long as Toaster is hammerer.
Oh, for fuck's sake.Remind me to sig this when my laptop works again.
SBC: Why are you trying to get people to not question mastahcheese so transparently? Why do you say 'as opposed to'- do you want mastahcheese to stop being under suspicion in favour of Toaster, or just for people to look at Toaster?You've answered like one half of this question, but try answering the second half.
TolyK: Does "JUST KIDDING!" have any relevance to the game- is it just a joke, or did it mean something?No, it's just a joke.
TolyK: So Toaster is still the hammerer?Yes, Toaster is still hammerer. A useless one, at the moment, but still the hammerer.
TolyK: Does Toaster's maimedness prevent him from doing his duties as hammerer?Yes, it does. So no lynch unless a noble appoints a new hammerer.
All the crap mastah is spewing makes it seem like he is not scum. What kind of scum draws so much attention to himself? It seems to me he is a third-party, and a more harmless one, because if he was one that town wanted to kill, well then he'd just silently kill at night.
Toaster on the other hand has a daykill, and I don't even really have a read on him.
a) Why did you twig so hard at being FoS'd? You got super defensive super fast for what was one statement and a question.
b) Why did you question Jim's case when you say you had 'no real opinion' on it- why did you then FoS Jim for something you had no read on? Were you simply making yourself seen to be posting?
c) Why were you so quick to tell me I should be focusing on mastahcheese instead, and why do you continue to assert that I have no business scumhunting by focusing on you?
a) It took some detail to answer your first question thoroughly.
b) I questioned it because he seemed to be voting without a real reason. After he explained it, I could then form an opinion on it, but there was no way I could have done so before. You're thinking that I thought it was odd because I disagreed with the logic, but that's not actually what happened. I thought that it was slightly suspicious because it didn't make sense to me.
c) "Instead"? I used the word "simultaneously".
Second, why are you directing a question about Mastahcheese's posting to me? Third, why are you asking only me these questions and not mastahcheese, who also had similar points?
Mandate: Appoint Jim Groovester as hammerer.
Mandate: Give Jack A T as few or as many links to cute cat pictures as you want.
a) Why did you twig so hard at being FoS'd? You got super defensive super fast for what was one statement and a question.
b) Why did you question Jim's case when you say you had 'no real opinion' on it- why did you then FoS Jim for something you had no read on? Were you simply making yourself seen to be posting?
c) Why were you so quick to tell me I should be focusing on mastahcheese instead, and why do you continue to assert that I have no business scumhunting by focusing on you?
a) It took some detail to answer your first question thoroughly.
b) I questioned it because he seemed to be voting without a real reason. After he explained it, I could then form an opinion on it, but there was no way I could have done so before. You're thinking that I thought it was odd because I disagreed with the logic, but that's not actually what happened. I thought that it was slightly suspicious because it didn't make sense to me.
c) "Instead"? I used the word "simultaneously".
a) The one question I asked, that I had to keep badgering you to answer? That'd be the one you didn't answer in your reply.
b) Okay, that did take me a while to grasp. I don't get why it didn't make sense, but that's clearer and more reasonable than what I thought was going on there.
c)Second, why are you directing a question about Mastahcheese's posting to me? Third, why are you asking only me these questions and not mastahcheese, who also had similar points?
You do mention him a bit, and you don't use the word simultaneously. It could conceivably be interpreted as 'ask both of us!' except with the addition of 'why me' it isn't.
Additionally:
Why did you ever think that un-FoSing wouldn't be viewed as the tamest scum play in the world?
If you really just thought that his initial post didn't make sense (and apparently still think it only makes sense with the addition of other explanatory posts) why go so far as 'un-FoSing' Jim. Isn't it still reasonable to view his supposedly non-understandable post as suspicious?
3. Ok, you're scumhunting me. Why aren't you simultaneously scumhunting cheese, who you've said is also suspicious?
Cause I didn't trust him, and I wanted to see how he'd flip.
Seems he only got stunned, though.
Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.*looks at name of game*
Persus:You missed something.Toaster: Any recommendations for a player new to bastard games?
Don't make any assumptions.
Why the hidden text?
And I give a shit ... why? Also, how sure are you on that number of Shakerags in the game you quoted earlier?
Shakerag: My favorite recipe is Curry with Rice :D
Shakerag: To what extent do you think the opposite will be true- people wary to accuse or investigate you because of the preconceived notion that in a game called KYOSN it would be too obvious to kill Shakerag?I don't know because I'm not a goddamned mind reader. I think some people might be wary, and some people might not. This question basically has a WIFOM-like answer.
Toaster has been disabled ("maimed")! Toaster may not action.Is "maimed" an official game-related term? As in, that specific term shows up in ability descriptions?
Cheeetar: I mandated links for a reason. I know some people (Tiruin in particular) can't handle huge unresized pictures well.So Cheeetar just violated a mandate. What happens now?
You mother fucker.<nelsonhaha.jpg>
Now I wish I had shot myself, so it'd hit you instead.
Jim GroovesterI suspect there are more Shakerags than not.I suspect that may not be correct. I may clarify later.
Jack A T:Shakerag: Not really. My mandate does not prohibit directly posting pictures. Also, why the late-day 4mask "the Shakerag" vote?Cheeetar: I mandated links for a reason. I know some people (Tiruin in particular) can't handle huge unresized pictures well.So Cheeetar just violated a mandate. What happens now?
JackAT: I do think he could've figured out something funky was going to happen when the hammerer died. He could have even possibly asked Tolyk what would happen. But I would think that from the mafia point of view, a non-scum hammerer dying during the day is good for them.Superblackcat: Makes sense. Why put the revelation of my noble status first and foremost in your vote post?
TolyK/webadict:Uh, yes, it is an official term. Also, please see rules that roles can override.Toaster has been disabled ("maimed")! Toaster may not action.Is "maimed" an official game-related term? As in, that specific term shows up in ability descriptions?
Also, is there really no game rule about inactivity?
JackAT: I do think he could've figured out something funky was going to happen when the hammerer died. He could have even possibly asked Tolyk what would happen. But I would think that from the mafia point of view, a non-scum hammerer dying during the day is good for them.Superblackcat: Makes sense. Why put the revelation of my noble status first and foremost in your vote post?
Elaborate.Later.
Shakerag: Not really. My mandate does not prohibit directly posting pictures. Also, why the late-day 4mask "the Shakerag" vote?Because I just got around to processing the whole thread.
Toaster: Under what circumstances do you consider pure information-gathering daykills a good idea?
Everyone: Actions are public- nobles would have to out themselves to appoint a new hammerer. Either they act in an anti-town fashion (not letting us lynch) or they reveal their presence. Which is preferable?
Why is royalty outing themselves a bad thing?
Why do we want to kill royalty instead of any other random non-scum?Toaster: "We"?
... with this (bolding also mine):Why is royalty outing themselves a bad thing?
It attracts scumkills.
Why do we want to kill royalty instead of any other random non-scum?A slip, or just bad writing? I don't know yet, but you've certainly caught my attention.
It wasn't a very strong case; it was there so that I could find out if you really were using silly logic (which would cause a vote) or did have good reasons for voting.
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
All the crap mastah is spewing makes it seem like he is not scum. What kind of scum draws so much attention to himself? It seems to me he is a third-party, and a more harmless one, because if he was one that town wanted to kill, well then he'd just silently kill at night.
I gave Jim the hammer because I can't appoint myself as hammerer, Jim's not a major target of suspicion (and thus safeish to give immunity to for today), and I can't see him overriding the lynch.
Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.*looks at name of game*
4maskwolf
Works for me.
Christmas is coming 24 hours early.
There was a small problem with one of the gifts.
I'll let Jim say why. I know he didn't request one.
Christmas is coming 24 hours early.
There was a small problem with one of the gifts.
I'll let Jim say why. I know he didn't request one.
One of the gifts had a self-delivery mechanism, and another enabled early delivery.
You appear to be both Shakerag and Town (by your claim.) If this is the case, then Cheeetar is at least partially antagonistic to you, since he is Non-Shakerag. As such, you should want me to shoot him.Erm... Shakerag is a part of my role name, not an alignment. So no, just because he doesn't have Shakerag in his role name does not mean I want him dead.
The gun fires backwards.Hrmph.
There was no gambit.
End of lies.
Mandate: Appoint Jim Groovester as hammerer.Ah, so you're the local nobility. Noted.
Mandate: Give Jack A T as few or as many links to cute cat pictures as you want.I'll see what I can do. Later. When I'm done with homework.
http://cdn.mdjunction.com/components/com_joomlaboard/uploaded/images/funny_pictures_mafia_cat_disposes_of_the_body.jpg (http://Too annoyed for real post)*snickers*
No you.Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.*looks at name of game*
4maskwolf
Works for me.
Flabort: If you got a workable daykill which had to be used immediately, who would you use it on?I'm not sure, but the purpose of this question isn't to consider carefully, it specifies "used immediately", which means I have to figure it out fast.
4maskwolf: Do you have three votes?Whoah there cowboy, slow down. Why would you say such a...
GayArchaea is playing?Apparently.
That (http://www.wegortw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/the-cat-out-the-bag.jpg) cat's (http://cmsimg.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BH&Date=20070504&Category=CUSTOM08&ArtNo=70503004&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&The-Cat-s-Out-Bag-secret-training-cat-simple-click-treat-) out (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/cat-out-bag-17642659.jpg) of (http://meatballcandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Let-the-Cat-Out-of-the-Bag-Humor.jpeg) the (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LusD6EP4xO0/UT3ZHGefNFI/AAAAAAAAFjo/7UFrtigA6ww/s1600/we-can-see-the-cat-now-let-it-out.jpg) bag (http://www.seriously-maybe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cat-out-bag-1.jpg).EBWOP for you, Jack.
Right.That (http://www.wegortw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/the-cat-out-the-bag.jpg) cat's (http://cmsimg.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BH&Date=20070504&Category=CUSTOM08&ArtNo=70503004&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&The-Cat-s-Out-Bag-secret-training-cat-simple-click-treat-) out (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/cat-out-bag-17642659.jpg) of (http://meatballcandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Let-the-Cat-Out-of-the-Bag-Humor.jpeg) the (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LusD6EP4xO0/UT3ZHGefNFI/AAAAAAAAFjo/7UFrtigA6ww/s1600/we-can-see-the-cat-now-let-it-out.jpg) bag (http://www.seriously-maybe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cat-out-bag-1.jpg).EBWOP for you, Jack.
Each one is a link, so enjoy.
I totally expect to be ninja'd by TolyK with those public targeting anouncements, because I just got the PM that the roles have been sent.I would've, but I decided to do a votecount as well.
Cheetar: I don't think that anymore. I don't even know what to think of him. I thought he was third-party because a gambit that doesn't really help mafia more than town. (Who knows who Toaster will kill) was not worth that many votes/attention draw. Now it seems more valid, especially if mastahcheese thought Toaster would die. And now he revealed a power role. He also created a lot of confusion. This seems like a much more valid scum gambit now than before. Even if it meant sacrificing himself, and if Varee was correct, there were at least 2 or 3 scum?? (Can't remember the number). If there is 3, that means he has plenty of support from other scums.
Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. Toaster had a motive in trying to shoot me- what wincon do you have, Toaster, and how is it served by trying to kill somebody who is scumhunting? Surely, shooting anybody would give you more information on how Shakerag/Mafia works- why specifically me?
Mastahcheese: Why are you prioritizing gambits over scumhunting?Because insane gambits causes huge amounts of arguements, allowing shitloads of scumslips because everyone is too focused on the insanity of the gambit to pay attention to covering their ass.
I thought quite the same thing. I'm pretty sure I made a role for him...GayArchaea is playing?Apparently.
Both questions are on the right track. I can't vote with reasoning attached in the same vote. I was voting you because I find it odd that you wouldn't inform the rest of us about it. While it does make you a bigger target, it's also something that is hard to keep hidden.4maskwolf: Do you have three votes?Whoah there cowboy, slow down. Why would you say such a...
*4maskwolf checks votecount
Welp.
That cat's out of the bag.
Now, Persus13, I must ask: we're past the random voting stage, right? If so, then why do you deem my possession of three votes to be worth voting for? Or is there something there you aren't explaining?
I can't vote with my reason in the same post. I thought it odd that you hadn't revealed something that game-changing, especially as votecounts usually reveal that information anyways.4maskwolf: Do you have three votes?Whoah there cowboy, slow down. Why would you say such a...
*4maskwolf checks votecount
Welp.
That cat's out of the bag.
Now, Persus13, I must ask: we're past the random voting stage, right? If so, then why do you deem my possession of three votes to be worth voting for? Or is there something there you aren't explaining?
And yet your still not suspicious of anyone besides Toaster? Also, your suspicious of Toaster because?Mastahcheese: Why are you prioritizing gambits over scumhunting?Because insane gambits causes huge amounts of arguements, allowing shitloads of scumslips because everyone is too focused on the insanity of the gambit to pay attention to covering their ass.
I have an awful post restriction. Among other things, I can't vote with a reason in the same post, and I can't double post.
Please?
Jim Groovester: why did you add an e to Cheeetar's name every time your wrote it?
I'm guessing it's a post-vs-preview thing, given the same first quote.
However, the content after them is different...
Hm....
Aren't you also forbidden from double posting?I thought I'd lost that first post so I restarted (notice that the first quote is thee same in both, and my reply is roughly the same in both).
So, when we can we expect that you'll be modkilled?Considering it was obviously a mistake, I'm hoping TolyK will be lenient.
I'm guessing it's a post-vs-preview thing, given the same first quote.I believe this is what happened, because after I previewed my first post I found I couldn't edit it anymore. I thought it was a bug, so I refreshed the page and wrote up that second post.
However, the content after them is different...
Hm....
I'm not confirming or denying anything.Just kill all the witnesses.
However, it's most likely that I did.
I'm not confirming or denying anything.Just kill all the witnesses.
However, it's most likely that I did.
I can't vote with my reason in the same post. I thought it odd that you hadn't revealed something that game-changing, especially as votecounts usually reveal that information anyways.The fact that it could be game-changing is the exact reason I didn't want to reveal it. Think about it this way: no matter which of the four main alignments I have (town, mafia, sk, cult), it's a good policy to keep a little something in reserve in case your team starts losing. Had I not forgotten the fact (written directly in my role pm, so it's my fault for being stupid and not remembering and not the mod's fault) that it would be revealed in the votecount, I would have declared it up front.
Please?
No.
SuperBlackCat (0) - CheeetarConfuse.
Jack A T: Do you feel in a position to give reads on other players?Sure.
Jim Groovester: Why are you willing to give the Cheeetar victory role to someone willing to give the role to Cheeetar? Do you think the risk is likely only to the giver of the role?
Everyone: Reads? I was going to ask specific people for their reads, but the list of people I wanted reads from grew and grew as I prepared my reads post.
Toaster: Please answer this?
Oh, shit. That's weird- I'd already unvoted you and changed my vote to Toaster. It's not shenanigans on my side. Anything in your role(s) that might screw with votes that way, SBC, Toaster?
*Mastahcheese: Tried to kill Toaster, veteran and hammerer, in a highly disruptive way because RVS. Is currently trying to say this is justified because discussion. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5801243#msg5801243) Scum read.
Cheese: So, just to be clear: You set Toaster (a skilled veteran) up to kill himself and actively disrupted day play for an extended period of time to make sure that he would shoot, just because you didn't like one of his RVS answers.
There's a rather severe warning that I should not give the role to Cheeeeetar.So ... any specifics to this warning? Especially in regards to consequences?
Everyone: Reads?Sure. I blatantly stole the formatting from you, but the reads are my own.
Persus13: Why specifically ask me for reads?Because I tend to expect a lot of quality content from you, and asking you for reads is a cheap way of seeing how you currently think about and are interacting with other players.
So you are not town?I can't vote with my reason in the same post. I thought it odd that you hadn't revealed something that game-changing, especially as votecounts usually reveal that information anyways.The fact that it could be game-changing is the exact reason I didn't want to reveal it. Think about it this way: no matter which of the four main alignments I have (town, mafia, sk, cult), it's a good policy to keep a little something in reserve in case your team starts losing. Had I not forgotten the fact (written directly in my role pm, so it's my fault for being stupid and not remembering and not the mod's fault) that it would be revealed in the votecount, I would have declared it up front.
Frankly, had it been kept a secret, I would prefer to never have to use it: that would mean that the game was finished before it got to the point where there were few enough players to matter. If my team is winning, I'd never have to unveil it. However, should I deem that my team, whichever that may be, is losing, I could bring out my triple vote as a game-changer. I've well enough learned my lesson about revealing too much of my role (see: FHPBYOR. Granted, the role I had was annoying as shit to everyone else, but still).
So you are not town?I'm not entirely sure why you would say that. I intentionally phrased it from the point of view of all of the main alignments because it is true for all alignments. Just because town is uninformed doesn't mean I can't make an educated guess as to when the town is losing.
Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.
Okay, you just didn't explicitly say you were town.So you are not town?I'm not entirely sure why you would say that. I intentionally phrased it from the point of view of all of the main alignments because it is true for all alignments. Just because town is uninformed doesn't mean I can't make an educated guess as to when the town is losing.Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.
Jim: Give the role to whoever is about to be lynched. That way we can verify its existence.
Jim Groovester:There's a rather severe warning that I should not give the role to Cheeeeetar.So ... any specifics to this warning? Especially in regards to consequences?
Jim Groovestar: I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, considering past games with him. Seems town, but once again, as he is experienced, I don't trust that read.
Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
*Flabort: I don't trust Flabort at all. Has an extremely unusual role that supposedly gives others new roles, which in and of itself is bothersome to me. Has claimed third party. Mild scum read, partly due to sending Jim Groovester two roles while saying one was randomized: that set off the "team alert" warning in my head. I'm not saying they are a team, but it certainly perked my ears up.
Cheeetar:Toaster: Please answer this?
I'm town.
Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. Toaster had a motive in trying to shoot me- what wincon do you have, Toaster, and how is it served by trying to kill somebody who is scumhunting? Surely, shooting anybody would give you more information on how Shakerag/Mafia works- why specifically me?
Toaster (0) - Cheeetar
What error? :pToaster (0) - Cheeetar
Error, or something else?
Jack A T: [...] This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5792711#msg5792711) was an odd post- he doesn't like secondary win cons.Cheeetar: I'm not particularly fond of scumhunting-disrupting things, like people having secondary wincons (and the changed behaviour associated with them).
Jack:Toaster: That wasn't my intention. I consider the choice of target to be of some importance in the case against Cheese: there is little reason for scum to risk so much to kill, say, Superblackcat.*Mastahcheese: Tried to kill Toaster, veteran and hammerer, in a highly disruptive way because RVS. Is currently trying to say this is justified because discussion. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5801243#msg5801243) Scum read.Why do I feel buddied here?Cheese: So, just to be clear: You set Toaster (a skilled veteran) up to kill himself and actively disrupted day play for an extended period of time to make sure that he would shoot, just because you didn't like one of his RVS answers.Probably because it's the second time you've done this. Step off my nuts, bro.
I'm reading through them reads, and I'm quite curious.Superblackcat: Concerned about his view of you, I see?
Jim: Do you have a scum read on me?
I'll let you know more about why in the morning, 4mask, but I feel like you and GayArchaea could be on a scumteam together, as well as Jack A T with Toaster.flabort: I look forward to your evidence. Especially the part about GayArchaea.
Extend. I'm doing my reread right now.Sorry, Vector, but:
I may not be able to post it right away if the internet goes out AGAIN, but by god I will reread.
Extensions: players have 2 extensions, can only use one per day. Up to 2 extensions per day at 48 hours each (+ mod extensions).
Extend. I'm doing my reread right now.This is my pain :'(
I may not be able to post it right away if the internet goes out AGAIN, but by god I will reread.
flabort: If it would help me achieve my wincon, yes. Which of your 14 RVS questions do you think will gain you useful information? Why? Of what sort? Which ones do you think will not?Correction: 15 RVS questions.
I feel like out of all the players in this game Varee is the easiest for me to read.
Vector:Cheeetar: Thanks for the answers.Vector: To what extent is congeniality suspicious?
I see it as a sort of "entry scumtell." It's something worth commenting on and makes the person a worthy target of questioning, but not in and of itself worth hanging someone over. Similarly, so is unusual rudeness. I'm looking for variations from a baseline. I'm realizing now that the Mafia baseline level of aggression may have changed substantially since the last time I played.
What about thanking someone for simply answering? Is that not congenial?
Vector: I get the impression you put little thought into this. You would be as willing as normally to vote Toaster?Vector: It's been a while. How will Toaster's hammereriness affect your voting today?Jack AT: Not at all. I may have to try to address more arguments to him vis-a-vis someone's scummitude or towniness, but it's not going to influence my vote.
Everyone else What do you think about the accusation by Jim Groovester that TheDarkStar might only be pretending to scum hunt? Is it indicative of Jim's motives, or is it a well founded accusation?
Vector:
What odds do you give to there being a cult in this game?
Vector:mastahcheese said you seem to be making yourself unsuspiscious. Why did you dodge the question? Do you think you yourself are doing this, and if not, what do you think made yourself suspicious to mastahcheese?
mastahcheese:You just outted a noble, potentially one of the strongest characters of the town side, for this little gambit because of RVS questions? Also potentially killing the hammerer. Neither of the outcomes would have been beneficial to town. What the hell man?
Vector Assuming you're town (or town-analog) in this situation, if there were two scum-team members left alive, as well as yourself and two other townies, which two players would you want to be the townie players?
Everyone: Reads? I was going to ask specific people for their reads, but the list of people I wanted reads from grew and grew as I prepared my reads post.
Flabort
Flabort
Flabort
Jim Groovester: Do you expect your new wincon to get in the way of town play? If so, how much so? What is the wincon, if you don't mind stating it?
Jim: Do you have a scum read on me?
EXTEND IN NUCLEAR CHRISTMAS COLORS
This is just weird. First you ignore the question, and now you're only pretending to answer it. The full question was:Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. Toaster had a motive in trying to shoot me- what wincon do you have, Toaster, and how is it served by trying to kill somebody who is scumhunting? Surely, shooting anybody would give you more information on how Shakerag/Mafia works- why specifically me?
You're smart enough to know that I didn't just ask what your wincon was. Why is a townie killing scumhunters to learn more about the Shakerag/non-Shakerag dynamic? You claim to be motivated by my Shakerag miller claim, but if you're only interested in killing mafia (as a townie would be (?)), why are you aiming for me so viciously that it's a tossup between lynching me or the person who tried to kill you and everyone (sic) thinks is scummy?
This weirdness is turning my pressure vote into a real vote.
... but if you're only interested in killing mafia (as a townie would be (?)) ...
On a different topic, I can tell you read my last post. I see no full set of reads. I'd like a full set of reads from you.
... but I feel like you and GayArchaea could be on a scumteam together ...
Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
my wincon now is I win if ...... win
It's pressure to get him to respond. It put him only two below mastahcheese in terms of the votecount, meaning that one switch from cheese to him could tie it up. The fact that he has three votes in response to that is... disturbing.Flabort
Flabort
Flabort
That's a pretty severe reaction. Why is supposition about a town/scum and shakerag/anti-shakerag game cause for putting all your votes on flabort?
Flabort:>:(... but I feel like you and GayArchaea could be on a scumteam together ...
What voodoo magic did you use to make a connective determination of someone who has essentially posted nothing?
Elaborate.Later.
I think I already say too much, I dont think I should be claiming anymore until laterYeah, buddy, watch yourself. Because we're watching you...
When's later?Sometime after now.
Soon.TMWhen's later?Sometime after now.
PFP
unvote unvote unvote Votecount request in the near futureSoon.TM
What's your current win condition, Varee?Soon.TM
I think I already say too much, I dont think I should be claiming anymore until later
A question: Do you believe all third parties to be anti-town?
Shakerag: Who do you suspect and why? Answer before your weekend AWOL.Suspect for what exactly? This game isn't straightforward you might have noticed.
So, uh.I'll have Dicebot roll for his actions.
We seem to have a short in our resident bacterium. He's up for Replacement until day end, in which case he will either turn into a random bot (i.e. random-actioning bastard) or just be modkilled.
4mask: This is the second time you've voted for somebody then very quickly unvoted with nothing from the person you voted inbetween. This is looking pretty close to a post restriction or some sort of role thing.No, no post restriction, I'm testing a theory on his abilities this time.
my wincon now is I win if ...... win
So ZU, could we get a list of reads, please.No I'm still reading the thread it will have to wait until later.
Why did you feel the need to correct such a minor point?Vector: I don't recall, though I think it was probably due to my dislike of letting my mistakes stand uncorrected.
Honestly, this would be a lot easier if I knew which alignments were even possible ._. If we're operating off of the two-parallel-games theory, then I can't say I'm having an easy time separating scumteams from each other.What alignments, aside from town, do you feel are safe to assume are here?
Everyone: Given that most of us are voting for Cheese and don't/probably won't have a good reason to change it, should we shorten the day or let it go until Tuesday?TheDarkStar: Let the day continue, at least for now. We have players we've heard little or nothing from.
Varee and Cheetar have claimed third party roles right?zombie urist: Varee and Cheeetar have claimed third party roles, yes. Flabort too.
Who claimed "not shakerag" again?
Mandate: Unless tied to game mechanics (rules, powers, theme mechanics, etc.), the 'glow' tag is not to be used.Technically, it can be used for getting attention of the mods (see: opening post), but please don't be obnoxious.
Vector's italicized text has been ignored.Wow, rude.
Deal with it.Vector's italicized text has been ignored.Wow, rude.
Vector doesn't pick up a nonexistent apple and doesn't throw it at anyone because it doesn't exist.Deal with it.Vector's italicized text has been ignored.Wow, rude.
I want to have the reads of people who aren't yet able to post them- them dying in the night and not being able to impart information would be bad for us. So yeah, I'm opposing a shorten.
Also my read ( not complete(And mostly useless))
Shakerag - Safe, for now ....
Cheetar - I think he is suffering a similar fate to me ....
Jack A T -Also safe ...
GayArchae -Dunno
TheDarkStar -Helpful and not too mean(yet)
Flabort -Umm voodoo magic?
Vector -Dunno , extending to help someone?
Varee -Just forget it, Random....
Tiruin -Busy? :D
Jim Groovester -Fairly talkative ? dunno
Toaster - ME acting odd? blah I dont think so, Good read though hmm.
Persus13 - Dunno
4maskwolf - Pal? I dont know ....
Mastahcheese - Unlucky? got into trouble?
SuperBlackCat -umm nothing?
Zombie urist- Umm no.
Umm no information to be shared, I think I need more time ...[/glow]
To be frank all the random reads mostly mean "I haven't got a clue and I feel like putting random stuff in instead of blanks"
Safe means shakerag and wolf's and your refer to ballot and talkative mean there too much post I didn't read them.....
I just post the read because you guys ask for it..:/
What's the punishment for breaking a mandate? If its getting hammered we can force people to use the glow tag, break the mandate, and get multiple lynches.zombie urist: I have no idea, and I don't think the no glow mandate was allowed by the mods.
Unless the offense is serious, there will be no hammering for it. The most serious offense is the one we're (you're) voting for, whatever it is, and only one hammering per day.What's the punishment for breaking a mandate? If its getting hammered we can force people to use the glow tag, break the mandate, and get multiple lynches.zombie urist: I have no idea, and I don't think the no glow mandate was allowed by the mods.
I want to have the reads of people who aren't yet able to post them- them dying in the night and not being able to impart information would be bad for us. So yeah, I'm opposing a shorten.
Who still needs to give reads?
MC: Leaning town.
Jim Neutral read.
SBC Not enough to go on, really, but mild town read.
Varee Wacky post restriction, still reading "Varee", AKA WTF-does-that-mean
Shakerag Prime Leaning pro-town
Persus Who? Oh, right, I guess he's still "active", but I haven't seen him enough. Neutral.
Vector, Tiruin, GayArchaea Not enough posts to read at all.
that person really overreacted.What bullshit is this? Here's a quote of my reaction to that:
Flabort: What allowed you to divine that bizarre combination of people of me and Archaea?Overreaction? Someone's grasping at straws to make a case that makes no sense.
And your play still seems to indicate that you're trying to send someone instructions in your QT./me giggles
The reason I'm voting you now, is because you are chainsaw defending Jack A T.Chainsaw defending... I asked legitimate questions about your accusations of me and Jack A T, because those were the reads I couldn't see where you were getting them from. I applied significant pressure because the day was ending soon and I wanted a response. As a point of fact, you never answered my questions, so I'm going to post it again here:
And most importantly, Flabort, I'd like to hear a solid explanation of why you call me and Jack A T "anti-town". Your evidence on me seems to be "this post is suspicious" without clarification and Jack's is just based on speculation as to the nature of nobles, which is actually more egregious. I'd like to hear a clear answer before day end.
Why I believe that GA might be scum:flabort: Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? And, for that matter, what your evidence was against your real suspects at the time of your 4mask/GA/me votes? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to? Why do you refuse to explain the nobility points you were questioned on?
Reaction test, really. GA was completely absent, and I had no read on him at all. So by pairing him with someone and calling it a read, that person really overreacted.
4maskwolf: Please explain.And your play still seems to indicate that you're trying to send someone instructions in your QT./me giggles
As a point of fact, I've done exactly that, but it's not the quicktopic you're thinking of and not the style of instructions you're thinking of.
I'm guessing this was cover for an action Flabort took, given the circumstances.I, uh...
So, Flabort, what did you just do?
Jack What "nobility points" I was "questioned on"? Obviously I missed something.flabort: Specifically, the choice to base a vote on your guesses about nobles. Which 4mask asked about (a comment you, as far as I can tell, declared a chainsaw defense and refused to seriously respond to).
There's a spoilspec (of sorts) chat that actual observers (people who aren't playing) have access to. Because I was originally signed up as a registered observer, the role I sent to TolyK was "registered observer", and one of the things that role gave me was access to that chat. Which means that naturally TolyK hasn't spoiled anything in the chat, but it's interesting regardless.4maskwolf: Please explain.And your play still seems to indicate that you're trying to send someone instructions in your QT./me giggles
As a point of fact, I've done exactly that, but it's not the quicktopic you're thinking of and not the style of instructions you're thinking of.
Also, what do you mean by "talkative"?
Strange floating fellow: "Ah, so you're looking for quick industrialization, dawg? I can give you quick industrialization, with a price drop, special fo you! Yes, I can do sat, brah.I think you just got your answer...
And jokes. Gotcha, lots of jokes.
I can use three of my actions for free, whenever, but he won't leave, and every time I make an action he comments on it. He keeps saying "yo dawg" in my ear.Also, what do you mean by "talkative"?Strange floating fellow: "Ah, so you're looking for quick industrialization, dawg? I can give you quick industrialization, with a price drop, special fo you! Yes, I can do sat, brah.I think you just got your answer...
And jokes. Gotcha, lots of jokes.
Flabort: What, exactly, does the genie do?
Alright. I chose to vote for the declared Noble because I am pretty sure the nobles are one of two things: Anti-town team or mason team. If they ARE a mason team, odds are good that there are at least three, so losing one would confirm that they are masons and leave the other two safe. If they are a scum team, then obviously we want to kill them.Jack What "nobility points" I was "questioned on"? Obviously I missed something.flabort: Specifically, the choice to base a vote on your guesses about nobles. Which 4mask asked about (a comment you, as far as I can tell, declared a chainsaw defense and refused to seriously respond to).
Everyone: Reads? I was going to ask specific people for their reads, but the list of people I wanted reads from grew and grew as I prepared my reads post.
Jim: The wincon I sent you is optional, I think. Fulfill that wincon AND win in any other way to win TWICE. Unless TolyK didn't really mean it that way, and he DID mean it was mandatory. It doesn't say it is.If your wincon includes an AND, you must fulfill both parts (logical "true").
Alright. I chose to vote for the declared Noble because I am pretty sure the nobles are one of two things: Anti-town team or mason team. If they ARE a mason team, odds are good that there are at least three, so losing one would confirm that they are masons and leave the other two safe. If they are a scum team, then obviously we want to kill them.flabort: And what exactly supports either of these guesses? (They're both wrong, by the way. To the best of my knowledge, there is no connection between nobles whatsoever. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one, though.)
Therefor, either way the flip of a noble will be a good thing.
Well, I thought the opening post for Day 1 mentioned "nobles", plural, which I thought implied a team.Alright. I chose to vote for the declared Noble because I am pretty sure the nobles are one of two things: Anti-town team or mason team. If they ARE a mason team, odds are good that there are at least three, so losing one would confirm that they are masons and leave the other two safe. If they are a scum team, then obviously we want to kill them.flabort: And what exactly supports either of these guesses? (They're both wrong, by the way. To the best of my knowledge, there is no connection between nobles whatsoever. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one, though.)
Therefor, either way the flip of a noble will be a good thing.
flabort: Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? And, for that matter, what your evidence was against your real suspects at the time of your 4mask/GA/me votes? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to?
Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to?
Why do you read MC, SBC, and Shakerag as town?
Also, Jack, I'm sorry about not telling that joke you asked, I'm drawing a blank. :pIt's okay. I didn't expect a joke.
Also, please answer these questions:flabort: Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? And, for that matter, what your evidence was against your real suspects at the time of your 4mask/GA/me votes? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to?
flabort: could you also answer these questions while you're at it:Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to?
<3 4mask
flabort: could you also answer these questions while you're at it:The overreaction was the...damn my tired brain, the post that I thought was the reaction was before the... Damnit! I apologize, unvote all. I can't read at all right now, apparently.Would you be so kind as to say what that overreaction is, exactly? What reaction to the abysmal GA vote would you consider to not be an overreaction from the person you linked GA to?Why do you read MC, SBC, and Shakerag as town?
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
So wait... you read Shakerag as town merely because you didn't want to be seen having too many null reads? Flabort...
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
1. Why does MC's gambit not imply scum? Why was it a "townish" action?
2. SBC has had some scummy activity including his odd defense of and subsequent attack on cheese. Does this change your read of him?
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
So wait... you read Shakerag as town merely because you didn't want to be seen having too many null reads? Flabort...
zombie urist: Varee and Cheeetar have claimed third party roles, yes. Flabort too.Where did Flabort claim third?
If GayArchea is going to be replaced, I'll unvote. I'll post more either tonight or tomorrow, but I plan on rereading the thread, paying special attention to TDS, flabort, and Toaster.This never happened! >:(
Usually that question means who do you suspect is scum, or at least non-town. Even if this is a bastard game (its "only" semi-bastard) there's still likely a non-town faction.Shakerag: Who do you suspect and why? Answer before your weekend AWOL.Suspect for what exactly? This game isn't straightforward you might have noticed.
Where did Flabort claim third?zombie urist: Here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5797747#msg5797747)
Tiruin: That's Cheeetar you're talking to, not me.Quickpost!As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
So wait... you read Shakerag as town merely because you didn't want to be seen having too many null reads? Flabort...
Err...Jack, how does this elevate Flabort to Fingering? Or...make sense that way (with semantics)
flabort: And, for that matter, what your evidence was against your real suspects at the time of your 4mask/GA/me votes?Flabort: ...Answer.
As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore.So, just to be clear, you see Cheese as townish not because of anything about his specific play or his specific gambit, but because gambits are not exclusive to scum and you think gambits are the greatest things ever. Nothing that points towards him being town, or even indicates you've examined his play, whatsoever. Just a banal generality about gambits and a personal quirk that has no connection to Cheese's alignment. Is there anything you see that justifies a Cheese town read? Perhaps something about his specific actions in this game (which, when stating reads, may be worth commenting on at least at some point)?
2. SBC has had some scummy activity including his odd defense of and subsequent attack on cheese. Does this change your read of him?TheDarkStar: This feels half-hearted. No effort to show what happened, where it was, and how it was scummy. Without an argument, or even a reference to previous arguments, this is basically just you saying you disagree and asking if this changes flabort's read of SBC. Why the low effort?
colors and shit
Jim: The wincon I sent you is optional, I think. Fulfill that wincon AND win in any other way to win TWICE. Unless TolyK didn't really mean it that way, and he DID mean it was mandatory. It doesn't say it is.
I, uh...
Made it impossible for me to complete one of my secondary wincons. Unless I die. Dangit.
4mask, 4mask, 4mask, I got my votes via those gifts; Jim and Vector will have their votes back tomorrow, but for today I have them. If I hadn't given that other role to Jim as well, I would have four votes. I can only take 1 vote per gift.
TheDarkStar - Has been asking good questions and
These, but especially Cheeetar's point. Along with your apparent laziness in voting (you don't have a secondary target after your unvote?) and your persistent attempts to ask the town to back up your opinions, I'd like to see you hang, flabort.
Just out of curiosity, did you get a genie-related wincon like I did and which flabort gave himself?
Vector wants to be a cop. This may be an anti-town wanting to look like town, but I think it's more indicative that Vector may be town-aligned. Her(?) later revision is an indication that she has a town or neutral read on me; meaning, she trusts me more than Toaster does. It also indicates that she is somewhat creative and can't stand being bland; I think this means if she does make a scum slip, it will be easy to see, and I don't see any yet. I trust that she is town aligned.
Vector, Tiruin, GayArchaea Not enough posts to read at all.
I feel like out of all the players in this game Varee is the easiest for me to read.
I am very interested in this, since Varee has posted nothing but bullshit this entire game. What's your read?
Varee Wacky post restriction, still reading "Varee", AKA WTF-does-that-mean
>.>Tiruin: That's Cheeetar you're talking to, not me.Quickpost!As for why those three are townish, MC because a gambit does not imply scum, because I love gambits, and because I was too tired to actually back-read anymore. SBC because I haven't seen much scummy activity at all, and Shakerag because I was tired of writing neutral or null or anything noncommital. Blarg.
So wait... you read Shakerag as town merely because you didn't want to be seen having too many null reads? Flabort...
Err...Jack, how does this elevate Flabort to Fingering? Or...make sense that way (with semantics)
Cheetar - Claimed third party with no wincon, and his apathetic play seems to agree with his lack of wincon. I guess he can just keep trying to get that role Jim has.
The reason I shot Toaster (or rather, made him shoot himself) was because I honestly didn't like his answers, they felt dodgy to me, in a way I can't really explain.
Yeah, I realize that I really should have waited for more evidence, but I guess I was just really wanting an excuse to use my power because it seemed hilarious to me.
Didn't realize I was lurking, though. The questions towards me kinda died down (or I'm an idiot who missed them) and I've been trying to read the other conversations going on at the time, and still going on.
It's interesting how much the players are the bastard in this game, as opposed to the mods.Don't worry TolyK, they'll soon learn their mistake.
Don't you think so, Webadict?
Yeah yeah, pipe down or I'll stick your "we know better" up where the sun doesn't shine >:( (I'm just kidding, btw).It's interesting how much the players are the bastard in this game, as opposed to the mods.Don't worry TolyK, they'll soon learn their mistake.
Don't you think so, Webadict?
It seems likely that Shakerag are not a mafia-esque group- at least, not an informed minority. That would imply that anti-Shakerags are the informed minority?I would assume so. But then again, wasn't there someone who said they weren't a Shakerag? If they were an informed minority, I would think they wouldn't say that. (Unless I'm mis-remembering something) Then again, there's also the Shakerag-miller.
The reason I shot Toaster (or rather, made him shoot himself) was because I honestly didn't like his answers, they felt dodgy to me, in a way I can't really explain.
Yeah, I realize that I really should have waited for more evidence, but I guess I was just really wanting an excuse to use my power because it seemed hilarious to me.
Didn't realize I was lurking, though. The questions towards me kinda died down (or I'm an idiot who missed them) and I've been trying to read the other conversations going on at the time, and still going on.
Well, like I've stated a while back, I don't know what scum is in this game. I don't know about town or mafia, all I know is I'm a Shakerag. (Which I've been trying to avoid saying because I'm rather certain that someone needs to kill Shakerags, but other people have been saying they are or aren't, so whatever)
So I don't think I need mafia dead, just anti-shakerags dead, and I don't know how to hunt for that. And i've been trying to follow what else is going on, and trying to deduce things.
I'd say more, but I have to go do my job.
2. SBC has had some scummy activity including his odd defense of and subsequent attack on cheese. Does this change your read of him?TheDarkStar: This feels half-hearted. No effort to show what happened, where it was, and how it was scummy. Without an argument, or even a reference to previous arguments, this is basically just you saying you disagree and asking if this changes flabort's read of SBC. Why the low effort?
TheDarkStar - Has been asking good questions and
Varee - Actioned 2 people at the start of the day, which IMO is a pretty stupid thing to do. Also claimed that his ability targets at random. Other play has been mediocre. Claimed third party, probably third party. Probably not benign though...
Mastahcheese - Did an interesting gambit. Not sure how effective it was but I guess I can see his motivations. Not sure if realized Toaster is the hammerer. Kinda town?
Unvote all, but I'm watching you Flabort and mastahcheese
Unvote all, but I'm watching you Flabort and mastahcheese
I forgot.TheDarkStar - Has been asking good questions and1. What other thing were you going to say about me?
Varee - Actioned 2 people at the start of the day, which IMO is a pretty stupid thing to do. Also claimed that his ability targets at random. Other play has been mediocre. Claimed third party, probably third party. Probably not benign though...
Mastahcheese - Did an interesting gambit. Not sure how effective it was but I guess I can see his motivations. Not sure if realized Toaster is the hammerer. Kinda town?
2. Why is varee probably not benign?
3. Why do you consider him "kinda town"? What motivations do you see for him trying to kill Toaster?
Why does the fact that he shot the hammerer matter? Why is it scummy that someone wanted to use their power?The reason I shot Toaster (or rather, made him shoot himself) was because I honestly didn't like his answers, they felt dodgy to me, in a way I can't really explain.
Yeah, I realize that I really should have waited for more evidence, but I guess I was just really wanting an excuse to use my power because it seemed hilarious to me.
Didn't realize I was lurking, though. The questions towards me kinda died down (or I'm an idiot who missed them) and I've been trying to read the other conversations going on at the time, and still going on.
You decided to cause the hammerer (who obviously had control of the vote) to shoot himself because you found it hilarious. I'm pretty sure that's not a town action; my vote stays right where it is.
When is the best time to get rid off an absent player?Jim Groovestar: I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, considering past games with him. Seems town, but once again, as he is experienced, I don't trust that read.
I'm considering it because of your wimpy vote on an absent player.
People who everyone thinks is scum is either town or being bussed, and I doubt mastahcheese is being bussed. The lack of an alternative lynch case (then, flabort seems to be an alternative currently) to mastahcheese makes me doubt he is mafia. Now, given people like Vector currently taking Mastahcheese's side, I'm more willing to believe Mastahcheese could be scum.Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
What does people defending mastahcheese have to do with your opinion on whether he's town or scum?
Persus13: Quite the vote. What do you think town would gain from a GayArchaea lynch that we wouldn't from a Mastahcheese lynch? What would we lose that we wouldn't with a cheese lynch?We'd gain the fact that we wouldn't have to be constantly looking over our shoulder worrying if a non-participating player was scum. If we lynched him, we'd lose cheese's flip and the light it would shed on interactions, but at the time I voted for GayArchaea, that interaction was pretty much the same universally.
And you didn't just cite the town wincon in this argument because?... but if you're only interested in killing mafia (as a townie would be (?)) ...
I am interested in killing scum. I define scum as "anyone who actively wants to hinder town." This definition includes cults, SKs, lynchers, and the like; and it can also include people who we can't trust to work with us. Especially since I (thought I) had a daykill; I could use it outside of the lynch process to go ahead and eliminate someone who wasn't on our side.
Persus:Almost.Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
This is a very weaksauce and inoffensive vote. It's almost like you're trying to stay in the background and not step on anyone's toes.
Votecount soon-ish.Didn't you say day got extended to Tuesday?
Day ends in about 30 hours. No buts, no ifs.
My good fellow, but that is Tuesday!Votecount soon-ish.Didn't you say day got extended to Tuesday?
Day ends in about 30 hours. No buts, no ifs.
Alright. I chose to vote for the declared Noble because I am pretty sure the nobles are one of two things: Anti-town team or mason team. If they ARE a mason team, odds are good that there are at least three, so losing one would confirm that they are masons and leave the other two safe. If they are a scum team, then obviously we want to kill them.
Therefor, either way the flip of a noble will be a good thing.
What does people defending mastahcheese have to do with your opinion on whether he's town or scum?People who everyone thinks is scum is either town or being bussed, and I doubt mastahcheese is being bussed.
flabort
Flabort
Well, like I've stated a while back, I don't know what scum is in this game.
The reason I shot Toaster (or rather, made him shoot himself) was because I honestly didn't like his answers, they felt dodgy to me, in a way I can't really explain.
Didn't realize I was lurking, though. The questions towards me kinda died down (or I'm an idiot who missed them) and I've been trying to read the other conversations going on at the time, and still going on.
When is the best time to get rid off an absent player?
People who everyone thinks is scum is either town or being bussed, and I doubt mastahcheese is being bussed. The lack of an alternative lynch case (then, flabort seems to be an alternative currently) to mastahcheese makes me doubt he is mafia. Now, given people like Vector currently taking Mastahcheese's side, I'm more willing to believe Mastahcheese could be scum.Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
What does people defending mastahcheese have to do with your opinion on whether he's town or scum?
flabortFlabort
I agree with you that flabort is scummy, but with the end of the day coming soon I think we should focus our efforts into lynching a single scummy person instead of spreading all our votes around at the last minute.
Last minute vote fuckery is a possibility here.
If we could get more frequent and timely votecounts decisions like these would be a lot easier....
Because of possible vote fuckery, and because I'm not sure enough of mastahcheese being scum to actually vote him.Unvote all, but I'm watching you Flabort and mastahcheese
Why are you unvoting? If you find them suspicious and have votes available, 4maskwolf, why aren't you voting for them?
No, I was exhausted but wanted to change my votes, there's a difference.Unvote all, but I'm watching you Flabort and mastahcheese
Watching them do what, exactly? You seem to agree with the cases on them, but you're not willing to make any kind of stand or work to figure out what's going on? The fuck?
Don't know why my vote didn't get countedProbably because I'm blind.
Hehehehehe."semi-bastard" game, indeed, TolyK.
Best combo ever.
Shakerag: Are you anti-Shakerag?
You know, as opposed to (or in addition to) town or mafia?
To be frank all the random reads mostly mean "I haven't got a clue and I feel like putting random stuff in instead of blanks"
It seems likely that Shakerag are not a mafia-esque group- at least, not an informed minority. That would imply that anti-Shakerags are the informed minority?
Toaster:And you didn't just cite the town wincon in this argument because?... but if you're only interested in killing mafia (as a townie would be (?)) ...
I am interested in killing scum. I define scum as "anyone who actively wants to hinder town." This definition includes cults, SKs, lynchers, and the like; and it can also include people who we can't trust to work with us. Especially since I (thought I) had a daykill; I could use it outside of the lynch process to go ahead and eliminate someone who wasn't on our side.
Persus:Almost.Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.
This is a very weaksauce and inoffensive vote. It's almost like you're trying to stay in the background and not step on anyone's toes.
Okay, so I have just recently learned that it is possible for everyone to win. You may or may not want to take that into consideration given that the day is ending shortly.
Extend.
I'll try to give you a tummy rub later.Extend.
Uggggggggggggggggggggh.
How did you learn that and what is "best combo ever" referring to?Hehehehehe."semi-bastard" game, indeed, TolyK.
Best combo ever.
Okay, so I have just recently learned that it is possible for everyone to win. You may or may not want to take that into consideration given that the day is ending shortly.
Toaster: Yes, I'm anti-Shakerag. In so far as that my wincon states that I "win" when there are no Shakerags left (barring myself). Also I have a "losecon" that triggers when there are more Shakerags in the game than there are players. Yes, I typed that correctly.Is this your only wincon?
Agreed.Extend.Uggggggggggggggggggggh.
So what about this "rocks don't fall everyone wins" bit?You know what I know in that regard. Apparently it is possible. That's all I know right now.
How did you learn that and what is "best combo ever" referring to?1 - From the mod.
[...]
Is this your only wincon?
Well geez guys, sorry for wanting to try and break the game and let everyone win.Agreed.Extend.Uggggggggggggggggggggh.
There are 6 votes on Flabort...
Cheetar I said you were playing apathetically because it seemed like you were doing a minimum of scumhunting only asking a few questions and not really following up.
Cheeetar:It seems likely that Shakerag are not a mafia-esque group- at least, not an informed minority. That would imply that anti-Shakerags are the informed minority?
Given you've claimed to appear as a Shakerag despite not being one, wouldn't that put you in that group? Are you a... uh... Anti-Shakerag-Ally?
Well geez guys, sorry for wanting to try and break the game and let everyone win.
Unvote.
Okay, fine. I assume that since I have a wincon of there being no Shakerags in the game (barring the player) then there would have to be a way to strip the Shakerag aspect of peoples' roles without killing them. Or, at least, the game would be in a state such that they could win even while dead.Well geez guys, sorry for wanting to try and break the game and let everyone win.
Unvote.
So you extended the day to tell us that this was possible, but you don't have any details or any idea on how to proceed to make that happen.
My wincon triggers when no Shakerags are left (outside of the player Shakerag).[bitchingandwhining]Why do you all get the interesting roles and I get stuck with boring old town with no new mechanics[/bitchingandwhining]
I can't be lynched. In fact, I have multiple abilities that prevent me from being killed in any way, shape, or form.
I lose if there are more Shakerags in the game than there are players.
I have a day ability that lets me gain 2 points of karma. I have used it already today.
I have a night ability that is basically a jailkeeper with the added effect of letting me send a message to my target via the mod.
I also technically qualify as a noble.
I have a "goal" of finding out how to get everyone to win.
There are no mentions of "town" or "scum" or anything similar (outside of what was mentioned above) in any role information of mine.
Flabort, why do you think Shakerag is the person we'd trust most with a cop ability, given his less than stellar performance so far? Why not give it to somebody more widely trusted?Who would this widely trusted person be? Jim is the only person I can think of who I think is town.
Also, if extending doesn't work and we need more time, we could just no lynch. I have it on good authority that there won't be a N1.
Unvote. Vote TDS: You seem REALLY keen on getting mastah killed. And from my skimmation of the weekend's posts, you really didn't put too much effort in and took what everyone else said and repeated it. I don't like that.
but I don't really think scum mastahcheese would pull such a gambit. I doubt his scumbuddies would
TDS:Why does the fact that he shot the hammerer matter? Why is it scummy that someone wanted to use their power?The reason I shot Toaster (or rather, made him shoot himself) was because I honestly didn't like his answers, they felt dodgy to me, in a way I can't really explain.
Yeah, I realize that I really should have waited for more evidence, but I guess I was just really wanting an excuse to use my power because it seemed hilarious to me.
Didn't realize I was lurking, though. The questions towards me kinda died down (or I'm an idiot who missed them) and I've been trying to read the other conversations going on at the time, and still going on.
You decided to cause the hammerer (who obviously had control of the vote) to shoot himself because you found it hilarious. I'm pretty sure that's not a town action; my vote stays right where it is.
When I next post, I'll probably be voting for TDS or Toaster. Toster has done some stuff, that I find kind of odd (need to look deeper into him and Jack interacting), and TDS feels pretty scummy in his recent attacks on Mastahcheese.
Toaster: What authority?I'll do my best to keep playing, but most of my mafia attention will be in ICing Beginner's Mafia.
Persus13: Sorry to hear you're going. Please keep playing until a replacement is found. Somebody not being there really hampers the game. Regards widely trusted person: Yeah, probably Jim. Or at least somebody not as scummy as Shakerag.
Hey, my role has an awful post restriction plus being relatively useless. You're are not the only one. Besides, roles are overrated anyway a lot of the time because shenanigans hurts them.*pants*Spoiler: MASSIVE FUCKING RANT (click to show/hide)
I swear to God, though, I am THIS close to requesting replacement out of sheer frustration at the futility of playing this game.
Let's see if this does anything:Eeeeeh nope. This day has dragged on far enough.
Mandate: There are no limit to the number of extensions that can be used per day.
Extend.
...I'm sorry you feel that way, man...
*pants*
I swear to God, though, I am THIS close to requesting replacement out of sheer frustration at the futility of playing this game.
Replacement Request, I'm being really inactive, and the fact this game is already 40 pages and D1 hasn't ended is really sapping my ability to trawl through the thread looking for stuff, in addition to school work and doing other fun stuff. I'll do my best to play until a replacement is found, but I just don't feel invested enough to play.Well, D1 is close to ending, so there's that. However, your request has been noted.
Duuude, when I asked you a couple of games ago what you thought about yourself as a player, it was in reference to these bouts of comparison -.-*pants*Spoiler: MASSIVE FUCKING RANT (click to show/hide)
I swear to God, though, I am THIS close to requesting replacement out of sheer frustration at the futility of playing this game.
Meh. They just keep getting worse, but yours was the first one. It should be safe enough.There's a song about this. And a saying.
Day ends in about 5 hours. The Hammerer has already told me what to do for everyone who might be lynched.. . . -_-
Extensions used:I do believe I extended before (along with Vector)
Vector (1/2)
Flabort (1/2)
mastah Do you mind outting some part of your role to give us a clearer view to you?
Cheeetar, not timid, I could see how it would go both ways.
I would lynch him if he's a bad 3rd party, that's why I'm 'rolefishing'.
Cheeetar, not timid, I could see how it would go both ways.
I would lynch him if he's a bad 3rd party, that's why I'm 'rolefishing'.
So you're unwilling to make a judgement. If he's a bad third party, why would he tell you that? Why wouldn't he just make a false claim? In what case would a person claiming something make you unwilling to lynch him while you previously were?
superblackcat today, post tomorrow.
There are only two extends per day (no matter what Shakerag says :p).Well that's lame.
Dude, really? I've got a wincon, a losecon, some ability that gains me karma which seems to do fuck all, a jailkeeper, and a "goal".My wincon triggers when no Shakerags are left (outside of the player Shakerag).[bitchingandwhining]Why do you all get the interesting roles and I get stuck with boring old town with no new mechanics[/bitchingandwhining]
I can't be lynched. In fact, I have multiple abilities that prevent me from being killed in any way, shape, or form.
I lose if there are more Shakerags in the game than there are players.
I have a day ability that lets me gain 2 points of karma. I have used it already today.
I have a night ability that is basically a jailkeeper with the added effect of letting me send a message to my target via the mod.
I also technically qualify as a noble.
I have a "goal" of finding out how to get everyone to win.
There are no mentions of "town" or "scum" or anything similar (outside of what was mentioned above) in any role information of mine.
Actually, I take that back, I don't personally have any new mechanics but have access to them.
4mask seemed to be unhappy with the lack of weird screwy stuff in his role- he might appreciate it?Good point.
FUCKING FUCKER FUCK DON'T YOU DARE MESS WITH MY ROLE!!!!!4mask seemed to be unhappy with the lack of weird screwy stuff in his role- he might appreciate it?Good point.
Hand the thingamajig to 4mask
Mastahcheese has actioned 4maskwolf.Fuck no I'm not using that.
So did it have a wincon on it?None. Still not using it.
Toaster: What authority?
Changing this sort of thing without any sort of extension is rather high on the shenanigan meter.Ayup. You'd be surprised...
Did you not notice you have a vote, as well as ZU and 4mask x3? I'm guessing you folks are the nobles, and only nobles vote today.Yeah ... actually I didn't. Hmm. I suppose I assumed since SBC was king then he called the lynch for the day.
no lynch
no N1
Pull the lever, because fuck.
This.no lynchI'm taking a fucking break.
no N1
BTW, 'bah'Are you dead? You're still in the vote count.
Sorry it was 12 in the morning when I made that post, but I had a brief post on SBC before.superblackcat today, post tomorrow.We don't have time for tomorrow. You really can't post anything about why you find them suspicious, Zombie Urist?
Really? I've been trying pretty hard to follow up on my questions this game. Would you like to press this case on me- show examples of my poor scumhunting?Not really since you already claimed third party, but 373, 423.
Jim why did you decide to knife Flabort even though he was getting lynched?
Toaster why would we want the game to stay more DF than mafia?
As a point of fact, yes. There's this little thing called school.Pull the lever, because fuck.
You decided to do this with how long left in the day, and then didn't stick around to see what it would do. Jee whiz.
Did you not notice you have a vote, as well as ZU and 4mask x3? I'm guessing you folks are the nobles, and only nobles vote today.I'm actually not a noble, and Jack is one. So that's not the explanation. I know why I can vote (or at least, "vote") and... heh...
As a point of fact, yes. There's this little thing called school.Pull the lever, because fuck.
You decided to do this with how long left in the day, and then didn't stick around to see what it would do. Jee whiz.
Cheeetar, not timid, I could see how it would go both ways.
I would lynch him if he's a bad 3rd party, that's why I'm 'rolefishing'.
So you're unwilling to make a judgement. If he's a bad third party, why would he tell you that? Why wouldn't he just make a false claim? In what case would a person claiming something make you unwilling to lynch him while you previously were?
Well, He just doesn't seem like scum to me, and I guess I understand your reasoning for 3rd parties, but eh, I'm not too sure about it. He keeps making cryptic comments about stuff and I want to try to understand what he is thinking. Because his actions don't make sense, as I mentioned earlier.
Also, The reason I unvoted and voted TDS is because it seems that it's more possible that he is scum. He's bandwagoning, Posting just enough to escape attention, while still running with what everyone else is saying, and frankly, not pulling any moves. That's scummy.
Also, the second I step kind of out of line with what everyone else thinks, boom everyone votes me. Heh.
Again, as a point of fact: TolyK was online, and I had 30 minutes before I had to leave. However, he did not get back to me in that time, despite being online. He got back to me sometime thereafter, and I got the pm informing me of the role change at school.As a point of fact, yes. There's this little thing called school.Pull the lever, because fuck.
You decided to do this with how long left in the day, and then didn't stick around to see what it would do. Jee whiz.
I have responsibilities too- if I were to do something stupid that negatively affects the game (or something silly that possibly could negatively affect the game), I would make sure that I did it at such a time that I would be able to be around to deal with the consequences. You decided not to, and that makes you scummy in my books.
So why pull the lever? Why not... not pull the lever?Numerous reasons.
What's your wincon, and how is it served by doing random stuff just because you can?I have clearly stated my wincon earlier in the game, and it has not changed since the last time you asked.
[bitchingandwhining]Why do you all get the interesting roles and I get stuck with boring old town with no new mechanics[/bitchingandwhining]
Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.
EBWOP:
Apologies if I miss something; a gigantic amount of posts showed up while I was gone.Cheeetar, not timid, I could see how it would go both ways.
I would lynch him if he's a bad 3rd party, that's why I'm 'rolefishing'.
So you're unwilling to make a judgement. If he's a bad third party, why would he tell you that? Why wouldn't he just make a false claim? In what case would a person claiming something make you unwilling to lynch him while you previously were?
Well, He just doesn't seem like scum to me, and I guess I understand your reasoning for 3rd parties, but eh, I'm not too sure about it. He keeps making cryptic comments about stuff and I want to try to understand what he is thinking. Because his actions don't make sense, as I mentioned earlier.
Also, The reason I unvoted and voted TDS is because it seems that it's more possible that he is scum. He's bandwagoning, Posting just enough to escape attention, while still running with what everyone else is saying, and frankly, not pulling any moves. That's scummy.
Also, the second I step kind of out of line with what everyone else thinks, boom everyone votes me. Heh.
SuperBlackCat
1. He "just doesn't seem like scum" to you? What makes you think this? Why does this make him more nonscummy than scummy? It's odd that you are declaring him "not scum" with no evidence, which makes me suspect that you are scumbuddies.
2. What makes you think I'm bandwagoning? Can you quote specific places? Also, what do you mean by "not pulling any moves"? Why is it scummy?
TolyK: How does the king work?Well.
4mask, Actually he just did, damn messages. Thanks for targeting me with a nuke.Oh so that's what that does...
What did you do, and can you stop it?Let's just say that you should think VERY carefully and choose to lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch today.
Yes! Ok! Whatever you say boss!Highly amusing.
/me scrambles away.
Yes. I am Dead. With a capital D.BTW, 'bah'Are you dead? You're still in the vote count.
Varee has actioned Jack AT.
Varee has actioned 4maskwolf.
ZU: Do you not agree that no nights is town friendly?I guess it is but its actually pretty relaxing to go several real life days without having to post. And since the lynch got messed up and Flabort's flip is incomplete it still feels like D1.
1. I missed it. 2. See above.Jim why did you decide to knife Flabort even though he was getting lynched?1. Jim explained why he did this. Do you dislike his explanation? Do you think he's lying? What is it that bugs you about his actions, if anything?
Toaster why would we want the game to stay more DF than mafia?
2. This seems like you dislike it. Why?
Well. It seems like the Shakerag himself has come, along with his spirit(spirits?)! Most excellent.FWIW, this part of the opening post seems to support what Shakerag said about everyone being able to win.
Unfortunately, you all must've come here with different goals. However, I assure you, it is most possible to cater to everyone's needs.
Alright. SBC is never going to lynch himself, so- 4maskwolf. You screwed us out of the lynch we wanted and excused it poorly. Why should we keep a loose cannon around?Why not? (http://www.loose-canon.info/Loose-Canon-1st-Ed.pdf)
I suppose SBC and Jim need to work together to figure out who to splatter today.
Jim why did you decide to knife Flabort even though he was getting lynched?
I've never made such a severe misplay in mafia and excused it because "I had to go do stuff". Your excuse is not valid- you need to acknowledge culpability.
Alright. SBC is never going to lynch himself, so- 4maskwolf. You screwed us out of the lynch we wanted and excused it poorly. Why should we keep a loose cannon around?
I've never made such a severe misplay in mafia and excused it because "I had to go do stuff". Your excuse is not valid- you need to acknowledge culpability.
Will him admitting fault somehow make him less scummy?
I don't see what extracting a mea culpa out of him accomplishes.
Alright. SBC is never going to lynch himself, so- 4maskwolf. You screwed us out of the lynch we wanted and excused it poorly. Why should we keep a loose cannon around?
Do you think 4maskwolf knew about the effects of the lever pull beforehand?
TolyK, what happens if the king is dead?He loses all his votes, since he's... dead.
I think there's a possibility that he did, and it's important to keep in mind. Don't take 4mask at his word when he says he didn't know what it would do.
I think there's a possibility that he did, and it's important to keep in mind. Don't take 4mask at his word when he says he didn't know what it would do.
That's not what I asked. Do you think he used the power knowing what it did?
There are two real possibilities I can see:I did stick around, but TolyK didn't process the action for an hour and a half. Also, I have no evidence that my lever pull was actually related to the lynch being screwed.
4maskwolf was knowingly irresponsible (he knew he didn't know what the hell it did, but did it anyway without any discussion or sticking around to see what would happen)- scummy
4maskwolf did it knowing he'd screw over the lynch- scummy
Proposal: Let's just drop the hammer on Persus13 and spare some poor soul the agony of having to replace in and read over this gigantic clusterfuck.I'm useless without nights anyway.
Persus: C-c-c-c-combo breaker for youHuh?
Cheese, you're part of the problem in the first place. I'll vote you next post.
TDS, this has actually been pretty extensively discussed earlier in the thread...
TDS, this has actually been pretty extensively discussed earlier in the thread...
I remember some people having post restrictions, but I don't want to spend an hour or two going through all 50 pages of this thread. It's much easier and I get a lot more time to sleep tonight if I just ask.
Do Y'all mind if I put my vote back on mastahcheese?
SBC, do you think that 4maskwolf would kill you for any lynch that he doesn't agree with, or just for not siding with the majority vote?To answer this question before I go to sleep: for not going with majority vote. Even if I'm the majority vote, I'll ensure he isn't überkilled by nuke.
. . . . don't quote the modI'm pretty sure that rule means "don't directly use the quote tags with something from the mod". He could theoretically be lying, we don't know.
No, Shakerag. We can't let what we want to happen get in the way with what we know is the correct way to do things. It'd be an easy, effortless lynch, and likely tell us nothing and not help us at all.This is a pointless debate. I've been over why I did it, and that seemed a perfectly reasonable time to do it. If my pulling the lever actually did cause the vote fuckery, then I'm sorry, but I didn't know that when I pulled it, and I wish TolyK had responded sooner to the pm.
4maskwolf: You know I'm not saying that- I've explained this before. You could have effortlessly chosen a different time to do it, or chosen not to do it- you didn't. Stop making stupid excuses like "I have a life" when that has no bearing on your decision to do what you did.
Here is what Tolyk said: "you have been targeted with a nuclear missile. Your sirens are going off left and right."
. . . . don't quote the modGenerally, it's better to use reported speech (he said that...) for these kinds of things to avoid confusion on whether or not you're breaking the rules. :p
Vector, I believe I'm allowed to tell you what the mod said, since I could be lying as long as I don't use the quote tags.Basically, this, but see above.
You could still be lying even with the use of quote tags and a timestamp- it's liable to confuse some people though.I'm not entirely certain what you're looking for, what question you have.
4mask: We have an unresolvable disagreement. Therefore: I still think you're scummy for your decision, as you refuse to discuss it beyond what I believe is a very poor excuse.
The why of your activation of it. Your excuse does not make sense as to the why. 'Why not', while it may be an actual motivation on your part, is not something I'm going to seriously consider- I'd much rather accept you were scum than your motivation for seriously screwing over the town was that you didn't know any better or did it just to do it.Why I did it, most of which I've said earlier:
Take from it what you will- no amount of misrepresentation of my case will change my mind on this.Very well, frame the case in a way that makes sense to you, proving your point, then.
I think both of you are having a town-fight and the scum are just sitting back and quietly lurking through the Day.As a point of fact, Cheeetar claimed third party.
I think both of you are having a town-fight and the scum are just sitting back and quietly lurking through the Day.
Why do you think that it's low effort? I asked him several questions (including that one) about his reads with the implication that they were unclear and lazy.TheDarkStar: You asked him three questions (and I have no objections to the first two), with one of them being, as I said, little more than a statement of disagreement with flabort. Why does it come across as low effort? Allow me to quote myself:
TheDarkStar: This feels half-hearted. No effort to show what happened, where it was, and how it was scummy. Without an argument, or even a reference to previous arguments, this is basically just you saying you disagree and asking if this changes flabort's read of SBC.What did you expect to get from that question?
If cheese flipped scum, who would you be the most suspicious of? if he flipped town? If you feel this question may help scum, feel free to ignore it.Persus13: I would see Superblackcat (his awkward defender until he was undefendable) and you (your defense of Cheese based on his lack of defenders...) as scummier if cheese flipped scum than if not, with SBC being the top suspect. A town flip...I don't know. That would require a thorough examination of the attacks on the guy.
Cheeetar: Interesting that this, after all of SBC's increasingly absurd moves, is what got you to finally vote for SBC. Pre-lynch urging to reveal role information is not uncommon. What makes this particular kind of rolefishing scummy?mastah Do you mind outting some part of your role to give us a clearer view to you?Rolefishing noted, Superblackcat. You've been iffy for a long time, but this kind of rolefishing (just before he gets lynched?) makes you very scummy in my books.
There are two real possibilities I can see:Is scum more likely than town to act recklessly? (I doubt it) Why?
4maskwolf was knowingly irresponsible (he knew he didn't know what the hell it did, but did it anyway without any discussion or sticking around to see what would happen)- scummy
4maskwolf did it knowing he'd screw over the lynch- scummy
Let's just say that you should think VERY carefully and choose to lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch today.
Basically, I'm just assuring that you side with the town. Sorry it had to be you.4maskwolf: Interesting conflation of the majority and the town. How safe do you feel in treating the judgment of the majority as the judgment of town? Also, do you know anything about what the nuke does?
Proposal: Let's just drop the hammer on Persus13 and spare some poor soul the agony of having to replace in and read over this gigantic clusterfuck.Shakerag: How about we choose not to waste this day on killing someone for needing a replacement?
I think both of you are having a town-fight and the scum are just sitting back and quietly lurking through the Day.Vector: Interesting. What makes you see it as a town-fight?
Cheetar, TDS is still my second scum pick, but they aren't on the same side I don't think. if mastah comes up mafia, probably Persus.SBC: I've seen you vaguely touch on the reasons for the former scumpick, but I don't remember you doing so for Persus. Why would you see Persus as scum if cheese was scum?
Do Y'all mind if I put my vote back on mastahcheese?
Jim controls everything in the end anyways.
We can't lynch SBC and I'm wary of a Mastahcheese lynch- seems far too easy. I'll take a step back and look through who else was suspicious shortly.
Jim Groovester: Under what circumstances would you override SBC's lynch choice?
Cheeetar: Interesting that this, after all of SBC's increasingly absurd moves, is what got you to finally vote for SBC. Pre-lynch urging to reveal role information is not uncommon. What makes this particular kind of rolefishing scummy?mastah Do you mind outting some part of your role to give us a clearer view to you?Rolefishing noted, Superblackcat. You've been iffy for a long time, but this kind of rolefishing (just before he gets lynched?) makes you very scummy in my books.
There are two real possibilities I can see:Is scum more likely than town to act recklessly? (I doubt it) Why?
4maskwolf was knowingly irresponsible (he knew he didn't know what the hell it did, but did it anyway without any discussion or sticking around to see what would happen)- scummy
4maskwolf did it knowing he'd screw over the lynch- scummy
We can't lynch SBC and I'm wary of a Mastahcheese lynch- seems far too easy. I'll take a step back and look through who else was suspicious shortly.
Can we just kill scummy people without overthinking it right now?
Are you able to use your vote other than as deemed necessary by your role?Yes, yes he is. He's also part of the spoil spec chat and apparently has to do what the people there tell him, within reason. To that end, I issued a request for him to "vote for the person you think is most scummy of those who have votes on them currently" a while back, in D1, but by the time he got online it was D2 and nobody had votes on them. As such, he apparently decided to perform the request the next time someone had votes on them, and since Persus13 had votes on them (that counted) he placed his vote on him. Which was my bad for not declaring the request void, I'd forgotten about it until he did that.
it is hard to say what exactly I should be looking for.Here, I'll give you some help. You're looking for a way to make everyone in the game win. Do you know anything (in-game) about karma? Can you modify other peoples' roles in any way?
I think both of you are having a town-fight and the scum are just sitting back and quietly lurking through the Day.So sayeth the person who is largely quietly lurking through the Day.
How about you get on the "let's get everyone to win together" train?Proposal: Let's just drop the hammer on Persus13 and spare some poor soul the agony of having to replace in and read over this gigantic clusterfuck.Shakerag: How about we choose not to waste this day on killing someone for needing a replacement?
That confident in being able to achieve your wincon without working with everyone else?Okay, so I have just recently learned that it is possible for everyone to win. You may or may not want to take that into consideration given that the day is ending shortly.
Meh.
PPE: You've made several vague proclamations without anything to back them up. Put up or shut up if you want anyone to care what you have to say.Any thoughts on what I've posted now? I would arguably say that I'm being fairly open about everything that I know to this point.
Fuck it all.No. Because there are people who don't think you are actually scummy, and the game can change at any time.
SBC is now supreme ruler of everything, but is too scared to do anything because 4mask aimed a nuke at him.
So now 4mask is supreme ruler of everything by violence and threats.
But none of that matters anyway because Jim is a daykilling inpector hammerer that runs the game anyway and nobody has a problem with this.
So Jim is the supreme ruler of everything.
Why am I still playing? Because the puppet king is too afraid to get me lynched, even though he has a diety on his side?
Shakerag: Let's stop beating around the bush; are you gunning for a mass claim? I rather believe you know something more than you're letting on. (Rolewise, at least; I'm not saying you're scummy for it.)Pretty much, yeah. If we had full roleclaims and everyone on board, then we could apparently all win this sucker.
Varee:
Quote from: Varee on 20,November 2014, 09:20:55 pm
it is hard to say what exactly I should be looking for.
Here, I'll give you some help. You're looking for a way to make everyone in the game win. Do you know anything (in-game) about karma? Can you modify other peoples' roles in any way?
Fuck it all.No. Because there are people who don't think you are actually scummy, and the game can change at any time.
SBC is now supreme ruler of everything, but is too scared to do anything because 4mask aimed a nuke at him.
So now 4mask is supreme ruler of everything by violence and threats.
But none of that matters anyway because Jim is a daykilling inpector hammerer that runs the game anyway and nobody has a problem with this.
So Jim is the supreme ruler of everything.
Why am I still playing? Because the puppet king is too afraid to get me lynched, even though he has a diety on his side?
Everyone: let's place our votes for who the king votes for in blue, like so: Cheeetar, for having a really poor argument for voting for me.
Stats homework done. Time to start dealing with the game again. Ugh.Why do you think that it's low effort? I asked him several questions (including that one) about his reads with the implication that they were unclear and lazy.TheDarkStar: You asked him three questions (and I have no objections to the first two), with one of them being, as I said, little more than a statement of disagreement with flabort. Why does it come across as low effort? Allow me to quote myself:TheDarkStar: This feels half-hearted. No effort to show what happened, where it was, and how it was scummy. Without an argument, or even a reference to previous arguments, this is basically just you saying you disagree and asking if this changes flabort's read of SBC.What did you expect to get from that question?
Jack A T: How about you get on the "let's get everyone to win together" train?Shakerag: It would be tough with the lack of people, I'm guessing. Also important: nobody is likely to jump on the train until there's more than just a locomotive. To get this to work, there needs to be some agreement among the players to claim. On the other hand, victory is good, and something like this could get rid of the general confusion and malaise that is killing this game. I'll continue to think about this, but I have no solid position yet.
4maskwolf: Answer this.Let's just say that you should think VERY carefully and choose to lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch today.Basically, I'm just assuring that you side with the town. Sorry it had to be you.4maskwolf: Interesting conflation of the majority and the town. How safe do you feel in treating the judgment of the majority as the judgment of town? Also, do you know anything about what the nuke does?
This is a bit of a stretch, but here's my reasoning: An ability with unknown effects likely screws with somebody- it wouldn't be purely beneficial in a bastard mod. Scum would be able to fire and forget without worrying as much about the consequences as town- less chance of friendly fire, so to speak. Generating chaos is more pro-scum than pro-town.Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe 4maskwolf's rage was real? If not, why? If you do think it was real, how much thought do you think 4maskwolf put into considering the possible results of the ability use? In addition, you recently indicated an intent to look back and find other suspicious people (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5820261#msg5820261). Who, aside from 4mask and SBC, do you suspect?
I expected that I would get clearer results from flabort or that he would say something scummy. In the first case, it's helpful because we get flabort's reads. In the second, it's helpful because we get a better read on flabort.TheDarkStar: And what sort of response would you have considered scummy?
This is a bit of a stretch, but here's my reasoning: An ability with unknown effects likely screws with somebody- it wouldn't be purely beneficial in a bastard mod. Scum would be able to fire and forget without worrying as much about the consequences as town- less chance of friendly fire, so to speak. Generating chaos is more pro-scum than pro-town.Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe 4maskwolf's rage was real? If not, why? If you do think it was real, how much thought do you think 4maskwolf put into considering the possible results of the ability use? In addition, you recently indicated an intent to look back and find other suspicious people (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5820261#msg5820261). Who, aside from 4mask and SBC, do you suspect?
Additionally, since many anti-town factions want each other dead, even if the town isn't a majority it is likely that there is enough animosity between anti-town factions that a majority could be reached.How do you know this.
Cult, mafia, and sk all want each other dead, along with any other instances of their own type not in their particular alliance. Within the context of a normal mafia game, at least.Additionally, since many anti-town factions want each other dead, even if the town isn't a majority it is likely that there is enough animosity between anti-town factions that a majority could be reached.How do you know this.
Interesting catch, ZU.Possible anti-town factions: cult, sk, mafia, lynchers and assassins targeted at townies, allies and brothers of the above, and outsiders whose wincons conflict with the town wincon.
4maskwolf: What are the anti-town factions?
4mask: Hold up. You go over all the bog-standard 3rd parties, and totally fail to mention Shakerag/Anti-Shakerag? I don't get it, and I'm not sure I buy it. That was a total form-letter answer, and not one you really meant.My wincon says nothing about anti-shakerag: it merely states that all anti-town factions must be dead (and that's all it states, obviously TolyK decided not to use the standard definitions provided by Wuba in the BYOR's). As such, playing to my wincon does not include playing the whole Shakerag/anti-Shakerag game. Yes, anti-Shakerag's are annoying to me as a Shakerag, but with the nights currently shut down and the relative difficulty in killing me I plan on staying alive long enough to accomplish my ACTUAL wincon rather than messing with the bastard elements of the game.
In fact, you have three real votes that you haven't used- any explanation for your votes not being worth nothing compared to the kings? Any explanation for you being unwilling to use them to secure the lynch as the majority wishes it, instead of threatening to kill SBC instead?They're visible in the start of day votecount, so they can be used (mine wasn't, for example).
4maskwolf:BLUH I KEEP MISSING OLD QUESTIONS!In fact, you have three real votes that you haven't used- any explanation for your votes not being worth nothing compared to the kings? Any explanation for you being unwilling to use them to secure the lynch as the majority wishes it, instead of threatening to kill SBC instead?They're visible in the start of day votecount, so they can be used (mine wasn't, for example).
His vote is worth a LOT, that is, it has a lot of weight.
That is, his vote is worth quite a bit more than the sum of the others' votes.
However, SBC, as king, was declared by TolyK to have a vote worth more than the combined votes of the three people who could still vote.
right here.TolyK: How does the king work?Well.
His vote is worth a LOT, that is, it has a lot of weight.
That is, his vote is worth quite a bit more than the sum of the others' votes.
When the decision is made, the day's lynch mechanics are invoked.
In this case, it means that the hammerer gets to decide which hammer to use.
Given an indefinite set of elements from a larger set....His vote is worth a LOT, that is, it has a lot of weight.
That is, his vote is worth quite a bit more than the sum of the others' votes.
TolyK: Are 4maskwolf, Shakerag, and Zombie Urist included in 'the others'?
In that case- 4maskwolf, why are you so timid as to suggest only voting in blue when your votes mean nothing and it'd be an easy way to show it to SBC on the votecount?I'm suggesting for those people who can't, and because since my vote is worthless anyway there's no point in casting it. All casting my vote can possibly accomplish is getting me blown up by a bomb or hit with some other nasty effect on a lynch, and that furthers my wincon not at all.
Jim: What information do you expect to gain from Mastahcheese's death if he's scum, third party, or town?
So Jim is the supreme ruler of everything.
If someone can get him Jim's role that lets him win we can get rid of him that way.
MastahCheese: I'd actually prefer a vote for TDS as opposed to you, because his low bother attack of you is more scummy than your shit play. But You still give off a pretty strong 'scum' vibe. It's just too strong for me to really want to vote you I guess.
That confident in being able to achieve your wincon without working with everyone else?
I've posted pretty much everything I know up to this point minus what I am mod-prohibited from posting, which I can at least say does not modify or invalidate the information that I have already given.
Jim: What information do you expect to gain from Mastahcheese's death if he's scum, third party, or town?
If he's town or third party then we learn nothing by his lynch. If he's scum then the people who awkwardly defended him (i.e. Superblackcat) become more suspicious. The people who changed their mind about mastahcheese also come under suspicion.
Could this mod-prohibited information be discovered through role inspection?Not directly, no. Although I think it could be inferred.
and if the majority wants to lynch SBC Jim can just kill him, can he not?No! The hammerer can only decide what to do with the current hammer target.
Jim: If you can rolecop him, why not do so?I don't think it would be the best use of his power. I don't think anyone would gain anything from the information. It's more ... something of amusement to the mod that he wants to not be revealed until post-game.
Mastahcheese: I'm sending you a role, too.Did you ever get that role?
Shakerag (1)- ShakeragThat's not w-
Please note that voting shenanigans are not displayed if they occur.Oh, right. Bad example.
Shakerag: No, I did not recieve any role from flabort.Huh. I wonder what happened there.
No, Jim's kill he claims to have, not his status as hammerer.and if the majority wants to lynch SBC Jim can just kill him, can he not?No! The hammerer can only decide what to do with the current hammer target.
Huh?Shakerag (1)- ShakeragThat's not w-Please note that voting shenanigans are not displayed if they occur.Oh, right. Bad example.
But that I can't confirm or deny that, so I'm just going with publicly available information. ;)No, Jim's kill he claims to have, not his status as hammerer.and if the majority wants to lynch SBC Jim can just kill him, can he not?No! The hammerer can only decide what to do with the current hammer target.
Can you do purely DF stuff like designate areas for mining or open the gates to the invaders and forgotten beasts?I think it's specifically about the DF-like aspects of the game. Unless, of course, those things -are- in the game somehow. If you've got something you want me to try, fire away.
Toaster did you ever claim all your autos that make this game DF-like?
Cheeetar: You are once again blaming me for the whole king thing without any proof that I was in any way involved. As I have said repeatedly, I am trying to fix the problem regardless of what goes on, and if the majority wants to lynch SBC Jim can just kill him, can he not?
Everyone: I just learned via mod that noble mandates basically just affect the "DF-related" parts of the game. So if you want me to modify that shit, just yell. Like the no-nights thing, or who the hammerer is.
Jim: If you can rolecop him, why not do so?
Where did Jim say he had a daykill?
4maskwolf: How did you know Jim was able to use his daykill?Because he talked about it earlier shortly after I used the nuke. Seriously, people, the search function is your friend.
Mandate: Designate a vein of hematite to be mined out.You have designated mining.
Mandate: Every player now gets to use their night actions during the day<processing request>
Mandate: Voting shenanigans are displayed if they occur.Shenanigan display: on.
Mandate: Public announcement of actions now includes a description of the action performed.More detailed actions: on.
Request denied: Requires different mode.Mandate: Every player now gets to use their night actions during the day<processing request>
._.
So hai guys. This is my first pertinent post of the game and...yeah. I've been missing for most of the days. Will make my post on Monday--I didn't expect /thiiiis/ level of academic hardship (+being ambushed by sickness)...this much.
Still! I'm free game for anyone (and not excusable by...err, my absence. Sorry for that)
Mastahcheese (2) - (Persus13), ZU x2
Mandate: Voting shenanigans are displayed if they occur.Shenanigan display: on.
Please note that voting shenanigans are not displayed if they occur.Well, so much for that then.
Huh?Mandate: Voting shenanigans are displayed if they occur.Shenanigan display: on.Please note that voting shenanigans are not displayed if they occur.Well, so much for that then.
oppose shorten
Because I just changed who's going to be lynched, you doofus, that's why.oppose shorten
whyyyyyyyyyy
Uh, 4maskwolf- don't you have a missile launched at him? What will lynching him do that your supposed missile won't?Hint: find somewhere, anywhere, where I said what the missile did/does, or even that it exists.
Everytime somebody tries to shorten a game there's always some jackass out there who will oppose it even if literally nothing is going on.You're missing the point. I'm giving people time to react to a change in lynch targets and protest, should they so choose.
Why do you want our sterling king's opinion on the day's lynch? Wouldn't we, I don't know, be better off without it since the guy is scummy and can't think for himself?
You're missing the point. I'm giving people time to react to a change in lynch targets and protest, should they so choose.
TolyK: How many shorten votes to shorten the day?Technically, it would be (14/2-3)+1=5 more votes without opposition.
Well since everyone has a thumb up their ass...They're called projects and sicknesses and I've 5 of them, not necessarily in that organic region.
Shorten
Later. Busy dying (not literally biologically) [but more like {sometime later but I can't request a replacement because that'll just add to the list and I'm able...I think...despite all this maybe sure whynot}] but also reading back also on notes.._.
So hai guys. This is my first pertinent post of the game and...yeah. I've been missing for most of the days. Will make my post on Monday--I didn't expect /thiiiis/ level of academic hardship (+being ambushed by sickness)...this much.
Still! I'm free game for anyone (and not excusable by...err, my absence. Sorry for that)
What are your reads?
Talking about mandate, I guess there doesn't work as the action is still not describe?XD
Mandate: Public announcement of actions now includes a description of the action performed.
More detailed actions: on.
That
Mandate: Appoint myself as king.Error: King can only be appointed via special king-making phase OR a designated kingmaker.
I am rather positive the Jim will murderstomp me, so I shall "Bah"
Mandate: Superscript and subscript tags are banned.
According to Toaster dwarf mode ends at the end of this phase, if I'm remembering that all correctly, so we'll get the usual day/night phase unless something bastardy happens.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody.?
So, uh.
Choice accepted. I just woke up. Gimme some time to scramble the flip together.
Also, in case you didn't quite get the flavor, DF mode ends right after the flip, and night starts.
(I'm saying this because there won't be any actions before night anyways).
Oh, and I haven't forgotten anything. Game will resume either around 19:00 GMT today or on Monday, Wuba and I just decided to give everyone (inc. ourselves) a bit of a break.Ohgoodnessthank you so much. Finals are killing me via workload!
Can someone please explain the whole Shakerag/Anti-Shakerag thing again? I've seen theories about it, but I'm not sure I understand it.There seems to be potentially another alignment pair (like town-mafia) in the game. My wincon involves elimination of all other Shakerags. I specifically lose if there are more Shakerags in the game than there are players (which does imply some kind of NPC Shakerag can exist somehow).
The day has ended for Jim Groovester.The hell does this mean?
(He may still talk, though).
Shakerag: do you still think it is possible for all living players to win?Hell if I know. I certainly haven't received any official word on that. Given that we've splattered a few players so far, I'll throw out a guess that there's an 80% chance everyone could still win?
Jim, why did you punch me in the face?Did getting punched do anything?
MastahCheese was pro-shakerag AND anti-shakerag while the others (Flabort, SBC) are pro-shakerag OR anti-shakerag. I'm not sure about the implications of this though.Prevented my action on him, apparently.Jim, why did you punch me in the face?Did getting punched do anything?
MastahCheese was clearly a shakerag. It looks like SBC (Dr.Shakerag) was a shakerag too. Flabort claimed "Shakerag Labs" and that's what his flip looked like, but I'm not sure if he was actually a shakerag or not. It appears that all of mastahcheese's "gifts" result in self-targetting daykills.
Cheeetar, what did you do to me?
...The day has ended for Jim Groovester.The hell does this mean?
(He may still talk, though).
Also: Flabort is 'the real Shakerag'. No, I don't know what this means. TolyK told me this in my Night 2 PM. Flabort, do you know what it means to be the real Shakerag?So he's an OS (Original Shakerag)?
Because I have extremely good reason to believe you're responsible for my win/loss paradox.Who is this referring to?
Jim, why did you punch me in the face?
MastahCheese was pro-shakerag AND anti-shakerag while the others (Flabort, SBC) are pro-shakerag OR anti-shakerag. I'm not sure about the implications of this though.
Also: Flabort is 'the real Shakerag'. No, I don't know what this means. TolyK told me this in my Night 2 PM. Flabort, do you know what it means to be the real Shakerag?
Jim Groovester (1) - Shakerag
Because I have extremely good reason to believe you're responsible for my win/loss paradox.Who is this referring to?
But he's dead! He can't talk!
(bwahaha)
What a curious coincidence that you attempt to kill the guy who is known to have inspections and kills at his disposal.And that makes 4maskwolf trying to kill you worse because? Having kills and inspections at your disposal doesn't mean jack in terms of alignment.
as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired.The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
I freely admit to doing the same thing at the end of D2 against SBC. Doesn't mean it doesn't set off alarm bells when someone else does it.as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired.The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
Why shouldn't it also apply to you?I freely admit to doing the same thing at the end of D2 against SBC. Doesn't mean it doesn't set off alarm bells when someone else does it.as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired.The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
Are you asking me if I'm suspicious of myself? Because no, I'm not. You all have your own metrics to determine scummitude.Why shouldn't it also apply to you?I freely admit to doing the same thing at the end of D2 against SBC. Doesn't mean it doesn't set off alarm bells when someone else does it.as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired.The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
Jim Groovester (1) - Shakerag
Awwwww turn back on the shenanigans display.
Hey! My information is totally valid! It's not my fault someone's role does...MastahCheese was pro-shakerag AND anti-shakerag while the others (Flabort, SBC) are pro-shakerag OR anti-shakerag. I'm not sure about the implications of this though.
The roleflips are not complete and are misleading.
When I inspected flabort he was a CEO ally, not PRO-SHAKERAG OR ANTI-SHAKERAG.
Did Flabort agree with your inspect? If not, have you considered the possibility you got redirected or that your inspect is unreliable?MastahCheese was pro-shakerag AND anti-shakerag while the others (Flabort, SBC) are pro-shakerag OR anti-shakerag. I'm not sure about the implications of this though.
The roleflips are not complete and are misleading.
When I inspected flabort he was a CEO ally, not PRO-SHAKERAG OR ANTI-SHAKERAG.
I wasn't even thinking about SBC when I said that. :-\I freely admit to doing the same thing at the end of D2 against SBC. Doesn't mean it doesn't set off alarm bells when someone else does it.as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired.The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
Jack A T, I was informed that you actioned me, and that 'my living space shrunk'. Care to comment?Cheeetar: One of my powers is the power to interfere with boundary lines. Its effects: the target learns I targeted them, and their home's area shrinks (I'm not sure what the latter part means). I decided to test it last night. (Is that all it did?) You're a safe target, as people go, having claimed third party.
Oh, you ask what I tried to do to Jim?4maskwolf: Funny how you never questioned him on any of this, or did anything to improve your read and/or get new evidence. Summary execution without investigation has never been the most pro-town of approaches. Care to explain? Also, who did you protect and why? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5823281#msg5823281)
I tried to kill him.
I didn't like his tone when it came to his hammer, as if he would take it into his own hands rather than what the majority desired. I didn't like him making a fuss about me opposing a shorten after I changed the lynch target, as if he just wanted the day over and didn't care who was lynched. And most of all, he seemed the scummiest to me at the time. Which is also why I tried to slam the door in his face after my kill didn't work (read: end the day for him).
What a curious coincidence that you attempt to kill the guy who is known to have inspections and kills at his disposal.And that makes 4maskwolf trying to kill you worse because? Having kills and inspections at your disposal doesn't mean jack in terms of alignment.
Did Flabort agree with your inspect? If not, have you considered the possibility you got redirected or that your inspect is unreliable?
The difference there is that he controlled the lynch, the town's primary weapon,
Jim: How did the killing of SBC by Cheese affect your hammer decision? If SBC had solidly flipped non-town, would that have had any effect?
Jack A T, I was informed that you actioned me, and that 'my living space shrunk'. Care to comment?Cheeetar: One of my powers is the power to interfere with boundary lines. Its effects: the target learns I targeted them, and their home's area shrinks (I'm not sure what the latter part means). I decided to test it last night. (Is that all it did?) You're a safe target, as people go, having claimed third party.
If he picks a target I think is scummy then all's okay. If he picks a target somebody else thinks is scummy then it will depend on how good I think the arguments are against that target. For example, if SBC chooses mastahcheese, then I'd be okay with that. If he chooses 4maskwolf, I wouldn't be okay with that because I don't find Cheeetar's arguments convincing. If he picks anybody I think is probably town then I'll be using the adamantine hammer.It's the use of the word "I" here that raises the alarm bells. Not "most people": "I". While I know what he was trying to get across (SBC is not the final word, and he can overturn any bad calls by SBC), this still raised an alert in my brain. As Cheeetar said in (was it this game? I can't remember), there are some things that seem scummy that you can't defend. Perhaps it was a mispeak or unintentional poor phrasing, and I considered that carefully. However, given the obfuscation of wincons I had no idea what was going on, so I took the shot. I anticipated, nay, expected, to come under fire from everyone else for it, and accepted it as a part of the action. I now stand in your judgement.
Before the end of the day TolyK asked for a list of which hammer to use on every player in the game, so there's no way SBC can pull a fast one.
Other people's opinions?I think it's swell.
Your question: No, my wincon is not clearer. The only new information I have is that Flabort is 'the real Shakerag', and this does not help me one bit given that Flabort is dead. Unless we have a medium or somebody who can resurrect around?I know what that means. And I am in a position to help. But you're going to have to tell me why you're looking for 'the real Shakerag' first, and what actions you have that you'd use with that knowledge.
Ah, you were referencing my kill? The difference there is that he controlled the lynch, the town's primary weapon, while I was in possession of a kill and have, technically, no obligation to consult with anyone else before using it. I'm a vigilante, but also a doctor at the same time.So he's scummy just because he's the hammerer? How are you a doctor at the same time? Weren't you complaining of being totally vanilla earlier? Also how are you able to kill Jim and protect Cheetar at the same time?
it takes three hits to kill me3 hits to kill and 3 votes hmmmumumumm
Persus13: Are you saying that you are given the role of Shakerag or of Anti-Shakerag or both?No, I'm trying to make sense of some night information I got. Why does this make me look suspicious?
I'm calling bullshit on these flips. I somehow doubt there would be this many side-confused players.Or maybe the parameter determining alignments is too narrow. Maybe the Pro/anti Shakerag isn't as big a part of the game as it seems.
My inspection is complete and accurate.By this do you mean you have the parts of flabort's roles that the flip obscured? Nothing was left out in the linked post?
4maskwolf claimed abilities earlier in the thread that answers most of your questions (but I can't find it at the moment through search. Also, you may find this post relevant.Ah, you were referencing my kill? The difference there is that he controlled the lynch, the town's primary weapon, while I was in possession of a kill and have, technically, no obligation to consult with anyone else before using it. I'm a vigilante, but also a doctor at the same time.So he's scummy just because he's the hammerer? How are you a doctor at the same time? Weren't you complaining of being totally vanilla earlier? Also how are you able to kill Jim and protect Cheetar at the same time?it takes three hits to kill me3 hits to kill and 3 votes hmmmumumumm
*pants*Spoiler: MASSIVE FUCKING RANT (click to show/hide)
I swear to God, though, I am THIS close to requesting replacement out of sheer frustration at the futility of playing this game.
Shakerag: I am willing to claim the roles I had at the start of the game, and have no mod-related restrictions on what I can say:
Role 1: The Shakerag, the Shakerag, and a few handfuls of Shakerag more
Wincon: Town
(N) Duel [target 1, target 2]: Kill target one, protect target two
(A) Three films: I have three lives
(A) Three characters: I have three votes, each of which may be used individually
Role 2: Registered Observer
Wincon: none
(A) Registered: This gives me access to the registered voter chat
(D) Vote Observer [t/self]: I determine how many votes the target has. Used on Persus D1: 1 vote.
(N) Action Observer [t/self]: Determine who the target actions that night.
Cheeetar: You are once again blaming me for the whole king thing without any proof that I was in any way involved. As I have said repeatedly, I am trying to fix the problem regardless of what goes on, and if the majority wants to lynch SBC Jim can just kill him, can he not?
Are you anti-shakerag?No.
By this do you mean you have the parts of flabort's roles that the flip obscured? Nothing was left out in the linked post?
anti-Shakerag
No, ZU. He's not scummy because he's the hammerer. He's scummy because he stated the will to override the lynch should a decision be made not to his PERSONAL liking. Particularly after I was already holding a "nuke" over SBC's head to try and make him follow the majority lynch.
Last night I tried to kill Shakerag twice since he's anti-Shakerag. Apparently I could not even target him. Fortunately my last shot of Free Use License did not get used up.Dude. Not only did I claim I couldn't be killed, I also claimed I couldn't be targeted unless I did something first.
Cheeetar:Your question: No, my wincon is not clearer. The only new information I have is that Flabort is 'the real Shakerag', and this does not help me one bit given that Flabort is dead. Unless we have a medium or somebody who can resurrect around?I know what that means. And I am in a position to help. But you're going to have to tell me why you're looking for 'the real Shakerag' first, and what actions you have that you'd use with that knowledge.
I wasn't originally thinking of a full roleclaim, but sure, why not?Cheeetar:Your question: No, my wincon is not clearer. The only new information I have is that Flabort is 'the real Shakerag', and this does not help me one bit given that Flabort is dead. Unless we have a medium or somebody who can resurrect around?I know what that means. And I am in a position to help. But you're going to have to tell me why you're looking for 'the real Shakerag' first, and what actions you have that you'd use with that knowledge.
Are you asking for a roleclaim, Shakerag? I'm not too averse to it, given that we might be headed towards a mass roleclaim anyway, but I'm wary of being screwed over somehow given the bastardyness of this game.
Yeah, but you could've been lying, or it only worked on the first action, or I dunno. It was worth a shot. Or two.Fair enough.
I don't know. Something he does makes him targetable.Huh.
A more interesting idea is the idea of nightkilling someone, then protecting them the following night to resurrect them.
4maskwolf: You claimed to be converted, and yet retained your town wincon. Why?The nature of the conversion used added an AND clause. I explained this.
Does that mean all those town who are converted become serial killers who 'make town and cult win' in the event of their being the sole survivor?If their only wincon is town, then yes. Otherwise, it's complicated. Again, I explained this.
4maskwolf, you can self target vote observer. You could give yourself infinite votes, but instead chose to give Persus 1 vote on Day 1. Why? Is there something about your ability that you're not telling us?First couple are answered as a misreading on your part.
Why, also, do you claim that all of the active players have roleclaimed when I can only see three?
Why is your wincon only listed as 'town'? What exactly does that mean- all mafia players dead? My wincon doesn't mention anything about town or mafia- in fact, I'm not sure if they exist.
Why are you voting for me with three votes to get me to roleclaim, yet you're perfectly fine with ZU not roleclaiming?
The night has ended.
No-one has died!
Votecount:
Shakerag (0)-
Flabort (0)-
Cheetar (0)-
Jack A T (0)-
Zombie Urist (0)-
TheDarkStar (0)-
Vector (0)-
Varee (0)-
Tiruin (0)-
Jim Groovester (0)-
Toaster (0) -
Persus13 (0) -
4maskwolf (0) -
Mastahcheese (0) -
Jim Groovester:Okay, fine. I assume that since I have a wincon of there being no Shakerags in the game (barring the player) then there would have to be a way to strip the Shakerag aspect of peoples' roles without killing them. Or, at least, the game would be in a state such that they could win even while dead.Well geez guys, sorry for wanting to try and break the game and let everyone win.
Unvote.
So you extended the day to tell us that this was possible, but you don't have any details or any idea on how to proceed to make that happen.
I also assume that there is a way to use our abilities in such a way that we can all fulfill our wincons together, or have some way to modify wincons such that there is no wincon that can interfere with another.
So, in the spirit of sharing and working together, I'll tell you about my role.
My wincon triggers when no Shakerags are left (outside of the player Shakerag).
I can't be lynched. In fact, I have multiple abilities that prevent me from being killed in any way, shape, or form.
I lose if there are more Shakerags in the game than there are players.
I have a day ability that lets me gain 2 points of karma. I have used it already today.
I have a night ability that is basically a jailkeeper with the added effect of letting me send a message to my target via the mod.
I also technically qualify as a noble.
I have a "goal" of finding out how to get everyone to win.
There are no mentions of "town" or "scum" or anything similar (outside of what was mentioned above) in any role information of mine.
So. Now it's up to everyone else to decide what they want to do with that information.
And, technically, I don't even know if that mandate/extend thing really worked or not yet.
TolyK: can dead players be targeted with actions?Not unless they're actionable while dead or something else comes up. Probably not.
Let us see if Jim inspects me and if he does what you all choose to do with that.
I'll take your word for it.
What I want you to do is inspect me, so that you have evidence both for yourself and for others of my wincon conundrum and that I'm not pulling some batshit sk gambit. However, if you choose not to, I have no way to force you.I'll take your word for it.
Unless that's exactly what you want me to do.
You're also free to investigate me, Jim- I'd really just rather not have Shakerag know my role until I know why he thinks it's important to know my wincon specifically.Eh?
Is anybody else interested in seeing what happens when we lynch somebody who's dead?
Yeah yeah, pipe down or I'll stick your "we know better" up where the sun doesn't shine >:( (I'm just kidding, btw).
I've sent off a PM to TolyK to see if it'll work with day actions, since they're asynchronous.
Are we sure we want to?
Are we sure we want to?
He can't be killed but if I'm reading his role right he can be lynched.
I don't want to claim because: The omnipotent Shakerag wants me to claim but is withholding information until I claim. This is probably because he wants to decide if he tells me what 'the real Shakerag' means or not, because I may or may not have a wincon opposing his. So: I don't want to take my chances with the omnipotent deity? I don't know what the real Shakerag means to him. Could you quote where Shakerag roleclaimed?Because I want to make sure you're on the everybody-win-wagon rather than trying to screw everyone else over to win.
Cheeetar:I don't want to claim because: The omnipotent Shakerag wants me to claim but is withholding information until I claim. This is probably because he wants to decide if he tells me what 'the real Shakerag' means or not, because I may or may not have a wincon opposing his. So: I don't want to take my chances with the omnipotent deity? I don't know what the real Shakerag means to him. Could you quote where Shakerag roleclaimed?Because I want to make sure you're on the everybody-win-wagon rather than trying to screw everyone else over to win.
And, no, that would not lynch me. Well, at least, I wouldn't die.
(I guess this means Jim needs to die after doing his "AND" conditions but before the "town" wincon if we both want to win. This is also why I said roleclaiming might be bad for me)
Since Flabort is "The Real Shakerag" and he dies doesn't that mean you win? Unless he has to die while being "the real shakerag"? Do you know who Cheeetar is? There seems to be a difference between "The Cheetar" and Cheeetar the player, just like with Shakerag.
Jim Groovester:Unvote all, but I will find you. You're the one person who has claimed so far that I can't win with, and being unkillable you stand directly in the way of my winning.
You can target flabort normally now.
4maskwolf:I'm sure. And am I correct in assuming that what you "can't" state directly has something to do with your unkillability?
What I can't state directly isn't -in- my role per se, but I omitted part of my role from my earlier claim because it would give too much away.
I'm sure. And am I correct in assuming that what you "can't" state directly has something to do with your unkillability?Not at all.
I already fulfilled one of my wincons and won on D1. Jim gave me that Cheeetar role during D1, and then I used my auto power for the first time to change my "name" to Cheeetar. Since I was now "Cheeetar" the wincon for that role triggered. Because I did fulfill the wincon for that role, it disappeared. Sorry Cheeetar. That's why I was constantly ignoring/dodging you when you were asking about the role.
The role also tells me who the Cheeetar is. Per that, the Cheeetar was Cheeetar, then Shakerag, then Cheeetar. Also, right now I lose unless Cheeetar wins, so someone is getting this role soon. The and/or changes there.
Well then I suppose its time to figure out who's in the cult...
I'll start with Varee b/c he claimed third party.
Well then I suppose its time to figure out who's in the cult...
I'll start with Varee b/c he claimed third party.
What does a vote accomplish for finding the cult?
TolyK, can you prod/modkill anyone who needs it?Yeah, I can try, if I can reach them. A bit later, though,.
Org gave me the wincon of "Unanimously be declared useless or win in any other way"Persus13: You're useless.
Shakerag Voting. This comes with no explanation and a disclaimer to not use it.Toaster: Huh. Interesting. Under what circumstances would you activate Shakerag Voting?
Jack A T: why do you want a townie gone, if you're town?4maskwolf: If you're talking about the Persus13 thing, not my intent. Reaction test. Also, winners don't seem to be removed from the game.
I was indeed talking about that.Jack A T: why do you want a townie gone, if you're town?4maskwolf: If you're talking about the Persus13 thing, not my intent. Reaction test. Also, winners don't seem to be removed from the game.
*I'm noticing a general theme with these roles: they tend to be built to generate chaos and confusion. Disappearing, reappearing, time-distorting, lynch-screwing, mind-boggling roles and powers. Also, lots of stuff in our roles that we don't know the effects of.Yeah, I got a fair share of that kind of thing from mastahcheese's mechanism. My original role had none of it, though. The powers of our primary roles seem themed, though, which is pretty cool.
Spoiler: My Role & Actions (click to show/hide)
-(A/5-shot) Anyone but Shakerag: Shakerag can choose to change his name to any player. Everything that targets this player targets Shakerag instead, including votes. Shakerag can choose to change his name back to Definitely Not Shakerag. While Shakerag is named Definitely Not Shakerag votes against him count towards lynching him.
Unvote Flabort.The fuck I haven't. Unless TolyK is a giant lying douchebag.
Shakerag hasn't won.Spoiler: My Role & Actions (click to show/hide)
I lied for this. My wincon isn't Shakerag dying. Instead, my first role works like this:
Fakerag
Wincon: You win when Shakerag wins.
[A] Fake: You look like Shakerag to everyone, but you aren’t actually Shakerag.
[A] The Real One: You are told who Shakerag is at the beginning of each day from Day 3 onwards.
[N] Flare/Chaff/What Have You [t]: Actions targeting Target instead target you. This ability can’t be blocked.
[A] Rags to Riches: If Shakerag dies, you gain any secondary roles that Shakerag has.
I haven't won, ergo: Shakerag hasn't won.
Shakerag: Why the lies? What's your real wincon? Incidentally, if you die, I should gain the role that makes me win- and then win! Whoo.
Wincon: You win when Shakerag wins.
Wincon: You win when Shakerag wins.
Maybe TolyK is being cheeky with the wincon. That is, Shakerag wasn't Shakerag when he won, he was Cheeetar, and since Cheetar won and not Shakerag, you didn't win.
Maybe TolyK is being cheeky with the wincon. That is, Shakerag wasn't Shakerag when he won, he was Cheeetar, and since Cheetar won and not Shakerag, you didn't win.That would be terrible and hilarious.
"Protection" is only against kills unless otherwise mentioned, so the two abilities don't interest.Ahh, derp. I don't know why I thought that made my target unactionable.
Cheeetar: Your wincon seems pretty straightforward to me. Why would you say you didn't know what it was?
What's the wincon of the cult?The cult is the last faction alive. Because of my hybrid wincon, though, my survival is considered as "all anti-town factions are dead" as well as "cult is the last faction left alive".
What's the wincon of the cult?The cult is the last faction alive. Because of my hybrid wincon, though, my survival is considered as "all anti-town factions are dead" as well as "cult is the last faction left alive".
Here's my role:
Shakerag's Little Helper
Wincon: (Town) XOR (all other Shakerags are dead AND you are alive)
(A) Overtime Toy Production: You may take two actions per phase
(N) Naughty or Nice[t/self]: You determine if the target is a Shakerag or not.
(N) Make Toy[t]: You make a toy for the target
Ghost
Wincon: The Ghost has its own wincon, but yours is not modified.
(A) Eternally Wandering: Your Ghost visits a random person each night unless specified otherwise.
(N) Unfinished Business [t]: You remind the Ghost that Target wronged them in their past life, quadrupling their chances of being targeted this night.
Night Actions:
N2: Targeted Cheeetar with Naughty or Nice (and he is confirmed as a Shakerag).
N2: Make Toy on Shakerag (Basically, it lets me win if he wins).
In a word, no. Additionally, any currently town-as-only-wincon players would all lose when the cult won if more than one player was still alive, because any given town/cult has to be the last man standing to win, which also ushers in the multi-axis victory.What's the wincon of the cult?The cult is the last faction alive. Because of my hybrid wincon, though, my survival is considered as "all anti-town factions are dead" as well as "cult is the last faction left alive".
Could everyone become cult?
Here's my role:The hell does that ghost do when it visits people? Who did it visit last night?
Shakerag's Little Helper
Wincon: (Town) XOR (all other Shakerags are dead AND you are alive)
(A) Overtime Toy Production: You may take two actions per phase
(N) Naughty or Nice[t/self]: You determine if the target is a Shakerag or not.
(N) Make Toy[t]: You make a toy for the target
Ghost
Wincon: The Ghost has its own wincon, but yours is not modified.
(A) Eternally Wandering: Your Ghost visits a random person each night unless specified otherwise.
(N) Unfinished Business [t]: You remind the Ghost that Target wronged them in their past life, quadrupling their chances of being targeted this night.
Night Actions:
N2: Targeted Cheeetar with Naughty or Nice (and he is confirmed as a Shakerag).
N2: Make Toy on Shakerag (Basically, it lets me win if he wins).
(A) All players only partially flip along with their pro-shakerag/anti-shakerag alignment, but there's a full flip when I die.FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
sorry i was really busy the last few days ..... I will go over the 12 or so pages of day three and answer whatever question you guys have after that.... might take a few hours though ....and...
I won't have access to a computer for the next couple of days and won't be able to post.
- (A) All players only partially flip along with their pro-shakerag/anti-shakerag alignment, but there's a full flip when I die.
- (A) If I die, my killer gets my role.
Mostly nothing, seems like. I suppose I'll try and do something helpful.I've claimed. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5851332;topicseen#msg5851332 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5851332;topicseen#msg5851332)Spoiler: Persus13 (click to show/hide)
We could lynch Vector for the sake of pure information. Get some of those partial flips clarified.Yeah, but Why don't we lynch Tiruin or Varee, then Vector, and get more clarifying partial flips.
Extended to Wednesday. You may continue lurking. :pOyou :-[
Seems like your fallout shelter thingo might be able to fulfill Vector's win condition. Do we actually want to try for 'everyone wins'?Yes :v
Uh, Tiruin, you just posted that role's name. Do we all have four phases to live now?
She said nothing about putting anyone in a "war room" and hasn't been president/king, so that power, if it is as stated, hasn't been activated.
> WINCON: Mafia (All anti-mafia players = ded.)
Yes. (Of whom I obviously am not telling other than the dead, if any, because of the anti-mafia note in the wincon :o)> WINCON: Mafia (All anti-mafia players = ded.)
Do you have teammates?
Yes. :vShe said nothing about putting anyone in a "war room" and hasn't been president/king, so that power, if it is as stated, hasn't been activated.
Oh, OK. I just misread the role.
Tiruin: Were any of Flabort, Mastahcheese, SBC mafia?Nyancat. :^
My reading comprehension is not the best- somehow missed the last bit of your post where you mentioned sheltering Jack. Sorry!My literary comprehension has been refocused into exams x_x
auto : (change my wincon on conditions.)Do you know a certain set of conditions to which you can base your wincon on?
Important!Right when my Finals just ended -_-
If anyone wants a replacement, please PM me. We have a person on the list and Persus has retracted his request.
I might replace lurkers (forcibly) if nobody asks.
Can you give us hints and roleflips?I can, mainly that Shakerag is most likely not lying.
I think its just that some players have had very little activity recently in general in the forum, and you should try and get replacements.I'd like to first replace people who wanted a replacement, but I'll sort this out tomorrow morning via the LurkerTracker.
I have finals this week.
Awesome teacher ._.I have finals this week.
My students have finals this week.
How many people are actually still interested? The holiday season is getting closer and closer...My Finals have been done as of ~5ish days ago.
I'm fine with modding this, but the enthusiasm is not very high. :P
...Reminds me of the WWII stories of their December...That was both a sad and joyous occasion on many fronts. :'(Pretty sure you're thinking of World War 1.
My biggest concern is that this won't start up again afterwards and be a bit like Iron Diadem.
Velociraptor (0) -
Vector, why did you have to die?Why didn't you want her to die? Why are you voting her if you don't want to die?
I wonder what happens to lynched dead people, anyway? Also, the velociraptor might be from that time way back when gifts were given. I asked for a velociraptor, but the gifts were reassigned. Probably, one of the people who received one of those gifts has it.Who was giving gifts?
Vector, why did you have to die?Why didn't you want her to die? Why are you voting her if you don't want to die?
4maskwolf, who's the cult leader?Not yet.
Why are we voting for the birdasaur?Because we can? Also, it seems to like to eat people.
I'm pretty sure I have no idea what's going on any more, though.
Seriously, who has information (and can talk about it) about what the hell karma points do (in this game)?*cough*
I'm seeing the 4maskwolf with a nightkill thing easily. Unvote Velociraptor, vote 4maskwolf. If all we have is your word to go in to trust you, I don't trust you one bit.I actually forgot one thing.
Your victory depends on TolyK modkilling somebody so you win? I'm not buying into it.Unless someone else has a better way of eliminating Shakerag? I sure as hell can't get rid of him as-is, and the cult leader isn't going to fare any better in that regard.
TolyK: Can a player who has already won voluntarily request to be modkilled (and be granted that request), thus removing them from the game?Technically, yes, but that would be abusing my kind heart. :p
Replacement RequestAlright, I'll notify Caz.
I just started school again and its pretty intense about now, and playing two mafia games is just something that eats up too much of my time, and I need to reread a bunch of the thread to get caught up and regather my thoughts and stuff.
Velociraptor: Do you refuse to reveal any information about your wincon?Velociraptors can't talk...
Velociraptor: Do you have any abilities besides eating people?Nods.
So of all the players remaining I don't think Toaster can be cult leader because of the wierd win/lose contradiction on day 3.
Therefore Persus13 and TheDarkStar are the two players most likely to be cult leader I guess. Maybe the other is the remaining scum.
Its probably not Varee since 4mask is 3xvoting him and thats pretty risky to do.
I've claimed my role already. Has Persus claimed his?Persus got replaced by Caz.
Can we get prods on Jack and Varee?Yes, that's a good idea, I'll look into it. ;)
Day ends... I dunno, next Monday? No, this Friday, unless someone extends it. I'll check in the time later.Specifics. -.-
*begins grinding salt and pepper over Shakerag*I see you're doing your best org impression.
I've got an idea for any of the townies uncertain with what to do: we lynch the confessed cult member with three votes.This doesn't solve our problem in the long run, but I suppose that 4mask is pretty OP with 3 votes + kill. 4maskwolf
*begins grinding salt and pepper over Shakerag*I see you're doing your best org impression.I've got an idea for any of the townies uncertain with what to do: we lynch the confessed cult member with three votes.This doesn't solve our problem in the long run, but I suppose that 4mask is pretty OP with 3 votes + kill. 4maskwolf
He has 3 votes, so he's worth 3 cultists, essentially. Plus, killing people and all.And it's things like this that make me sure you're lying with your roleclaim.
Same thing that happened to Jim happened to me. Can still talk, can't make any more votes. It's basically night for me now.
How do you know who the velociraptor eats?
You claimed a third party who will win the moment Shakerag leaves that game/wins. As such, it's not your problem what powers I have and who ends up winning the game. You've already won the game. So why is it your problem which way the game goes down here?
I'm posting because I want to, Shakerag. You've won too- why did you choose to remain in the game? Was it because you wanted to?Well if you're going to automatically win when I do, then what horse do you have in this race as to who is getting lynched now? You think 4maskwolf is trying to pull off "gambitz". Why do you care?
Cheeetar:I'm trying to have most people win, although the mafia won't as part of my plan.I'm posting because I want to, Shakerag. You've won too- why did you choose to remain in the game? Was it because you wanted to?Well if you're going to automatically win when I do, then what horse do you have in this race as to who is getting lynched now? You think 4maskwolf is trying to pull off "gambitz". Why do you care?
Also, I stayed in the game because TolyK asked nicely, and I wanted to see if we could pull off getting everyone to win. Clearly, there are other parties in the game that have other ideas.
Persus: Why aren't you voting for Varee?Persus isn't even in the game anymore lol.
4maskwolf: What's your plan to let everyone (or the most people) win?You've already won, and if Cheeetar is telling the truth (which I still doubt) he will win with you. The town and cult both win if I'm the last person left standing, so that makes most of the remaining players.
Velociraptor: Is Toaster going to be the only possible target next time you try to kill someone?Nod.
Velociraptor: Point to who you'd like to eat the most.Error: This Velociraptor is a gentleman. Or rather a proper Lady...
ಠ_ಠVelociraptor: Point to who you'd like to eat the most.Error: This Velociraptor is a gentleman. Or rather a proper Lady...
Caz then. I only said Persus because I was going off the votecount and who was listed as having a vote. Perhaps someone (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=30624) screwed something up.Persus: Why aren't you voting for Varee?Persus isn't even in the game anymore lol.
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?At this point? TolyK.
V-Raptor: Is your kill a night action? (As in, opposed to something that's already fated to happen by circumstance)No, it happens every night. Uncontrollable, I'm afraid.
Velociraptor:My client has no preferance of who to eat unless they smell like meat. Meat. Meeeeat.ಠ_ಠVelociraptor: Point to who you'd like to eat the most.Error: This Velociraptor is a gentleman. Or rather a proper Lady...
Kindly incline your head in the direction of who you'd like to eat the most, then.
Hmm?Caz then. I only said Persus because I was going off the votecount and who was listed as having a vote. Perhaps someone (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=30624) screwed something up.Persus: Why aren't you voting for Varee?Persus isn't even in the game anymore lol.
TheDarkStar:<.<Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?At this point? TolyK.
So yeah, I'm going to skip the night so I don't die unless someone can give me a reasonable and valid argument not to do so.Go right ahead, I suppose. Might work.
/me looks at 4maskIf you can't beat 'em ...
How big is the cult? How's recruiting work?
/me looks at 4maskSo you're anti-anti-shakerag, right?
How big is the cult? How's recruiting work?
Jack A T: Do you want everyone to win?Shakerag: That would be nice, but I have no idea how it could happen.
In general, what exactly do we know?
I could not win with Tiruin. Tiruin claimed a member of the mafia. I do not win with mafia. Thus, Tiruin had to die.In general, what exactly do we know?
The velociraptor kills somebody per night. All roleflips from now on are accurate (probably, unless there's some other role that screws with stuff.) 4maskwolf is cult and killed Tiruin last night.
Note, seeing as I just remembered: 4maskwolf killed somebody who was fine with the 'everybody wins' plan (Tiruin). Thus: 4maskwolf does not want everybody to win. Thus: We should not trust 4maskwolf (lynch him!)
Right, there was a game. Um. Sorry.If you are town, then my being the last person standing makes you win. Which is why I'm confused as to why ZU is voting me. Cheeetar is fairly obviously lying about his role, since he is grasping at straws to get me lynched despite the fact that he, should his wincon be as he said, has already effectively won (he'll win as soon as Shakerag leaves the game and thus wins).Jack A T: Do you want everyone to win?Shakerag: That would be nice, but I have no idea how it could happen.
So. Um.
In general, what exactly do we know?
Velociraptor.
/me looks at 4maskSo you're anti-anti-shakerag, right?
How big is the cult? How's recruiting work?
Both cult members are shakerags, if that helps, so you'll likely win anyways.
Assuming the raptor doesn't eat you, we could convert you in some night phase, I guess.
Cheeetar is fairly obviously lying about his role
4maskwolf: Who do you want me to vote for? Cults are funny.I don't really have a preference beyond not me.
Why was there no night?
ZU ZU ZU (and yes, that's three votes for zombie urist)
Mind ending the day, Toaster? I'm sure the cult leader would be more than happy to recruit you tonight.
You said your alignment was anti-anti-Shakerag? I have no idea if anyone is lying about their role outside of me and the cult leader, and both of us are Shakerags. As such, helping us helps you, in the long run. We don't even have to convert you, actually, and it would free up the night action of the cult leader to do something else.Why was there no night?
During D4, I got kicked out into N4- but only for me, not the game state. I sent in an action to skip the next night, since it was valid for me to act. Since it targeted the game state (not myself) and the game state was D4, the next night was N4. I was in a phase that no longer existed, so the paradox resolved itself by kicking me into D5. When day ended and night began, everything went into an inconstant state; I was in N5 (and could therefore act) which everyone else wasn't actually in N4 because it no longer existed. I guess you folks couldn't do anything because you were in a phase that didn't exist; your roles went straight from D4 to D5, and didn't exist at the time I was in N5.
Did I mention I'm pretty much a time lord? Because I'm pretty much a time lord.ZU ZU ZU (and yes, that's three votes for zombie urist)
Mind ending the day, Toaster? I'm sure the cult leader would be more than happy to recruit you tonight.
While this holds a certain temptation, I must reiterate that I wasn't planning on this. What benefit does this bring to me?
I don't even care anymore if cult wins. As long as someone else wins besides Shakerag I'll be happy....
shorten
So why did you want to eliminate me, 4mask?I didn't want you messing with the town-cult combined win. I was paranoid about the town turning on me and betraying me. And your powers played a key part in one of the strategies that could have allowed them to do so. I forgot you had claimed anti-anti-shakerag and assumed that you had claimed town (I only looked up your wincon when you asked about the cult's conversion mechanism), and given the fact that ZU had just voted me I tried to act preemptively to prevent treacherous actions on the town's part.
I suppose it's your choice, since you've got a lot of power: is this going to be a cult-town alliance victory, or a town-only victory?
Shakerag has started glowing.
News to me. I've been boggled about this whole karma thing the entire damn game. The mod won't tell me, and no one else is saying anything either.Shakerag has started glowing.
...? Shakerag seems to be a doomspeaker (or whatever you call the role that kills everyone else after x days).
Shakerag has started glowing.
...? Shakerag seems to be a doomspeaker (or whatever you call the role that kills everyone else after x days).
Bluh?Shakerag has started glowing.
...? Shakerag seems to be a doomspeaker (or whatever you call the role that kills everyone else after x days).
I completely forgot the joke!
"Kill Shakerag now."
There was a series of "Kill Webadict Now" bastard games.I am aware of that. I just didn't get why TDS was stating there was a "joke".
Maybe "kill your own shakerag" means we each have to kill another player, like I had to have Jim the FBI agent die before I could win.Not as far as I know, there's nobody specific I needed to have die before I could win.
Also: Flabort is 'the real Shakerag'. No, I don't know what this means. TolyK told me this in my Night 2 PM. Flabort, do you know what it means to be the real Shakerag?This happened before. Flabort was actually Shakerag Labs and it looks like Varee is "stand up slim shakerag". So I think since Shakerag changed his name to Flabort some time ago then Shakerag is "The Real Shakerag"? even though he hasn't claimed to be a "shakerag"? But then again Jim inspected Flabort while they were switched and he got results that said shakerag is "Definitely Not Shakerag". So who's actually "The Real Shakerag"? Maybe Flabort was "The real shakerag" because of the name changes and Shakerag was "Definitely Not Shakerag" while he wasn't Shakerag because of the name change but now that he changed back he is once again "The Real Shakerag"?
Would the real Shakerag please stand up, please stand up, please stand up!Only if you turn on Shakerag Voting.
Would the real Shakerag please stand up, please stand up, please stand up!Heh.
Would the real Shakerag please stand up, please stand up, please stand up!Only if you turn on Shakerag Voting.
4maskwolf la la la la~What is it with this bullshit.
How many times do I have to repeat that if I am the last person standing, the town wins with the cult?
... Which I said when I first claimed cult? Why would I claim cult if there wasn't something I could offer to the town?How many times do I have to repeat that if I am the last person standing, the town wins with the cult?
Eh, it's a pretty convenient explanation.
... Which I said when I first claimed cult? Why would I claim cult if there wasn't something I could offer to the town?How many times do I have to repeat that if I am the last person standing, the town wins with the cult?
Eh, it's a pretty convenient explanation.
Would the real Shakerag please stand up, please stand up, please stand up!Only if you turn on Shakerag Voting.
Don't tempt me.
The entire notion of a cult-town hybrid is fishy. Its totally likely that you're another SK instead of there being a cult + mafia.*sigh*
but why would I claim it in the first place? I was in no danger when I claimed.
Becuase you all are still trying to obstruct the hybrid win, that's why. I'd reveal who the cult leader was if I knew that people wouldn't try and mess things up, but Cheeetar is obstinately placing himself in the way of the double-win and zombie urist was yesterday as well, and since zombie urist could be more problematic they have to go first.but why would I claim it in the first place? I was in no danger when I claimed.
If it's true and you can cause both cult and town to win, why haven't the other cult members revealed themselves?
Did TolyK ever say why you are town-cult hybrid instead of just cult like every other conversion?Yes.
<.<Would the real Shakerag please stand up, please stand up, please stand up!Only if you turn on Shakerag Voting.
Don't tempt me.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean, seriously. The mod gives you a power and says "don't ever use it"?>.>
That's totally a sign that it's a key component of the game.
Wait, what the...No, and even if I was, it wouldn't show up in the votecount.
Hey Shakerag?
Are you hiding behind Jim Groovester right now?
It's just that the velociraptor is voting for Jim Groovester...Wait, what the...No, and even if I was, it wouldn't show up in the votecount.
Hey Shakerag?
Are you hiding behind Jim Groovester right now?
Just because my name is on the game, doesn't mean I have any idea what the hell is going on.It's just that the velociraptor is voting for Jim Groovester...Wait, what the...No, and even if I was, it wouldn't show up in the votecount.
Hey Shakerag?
Are you hiding behind Jim Groovester right now?
Nonono, what I meant, Shakerag, was that it seemed odd that the Velociraptor was voting for a dead person, and since you hide behind other people the first conclusion I made was that you were behind Jim Groovester at the moment.Fair enough, but no.
Just so you know, I may have turned on Shakerag Voting.Hey Toaster. Did you get a message about someone/thing trying to set you on fire last night?
Nope.Huh. Well, apparenrly I saved you from the fire by the power of hugz. Youre welcome.
err can someone summarise day 5 for me ?
Just so you know, I may have turned on Shakerag Voting.Toaster: May have? Do you know if you have? Do you know what it does/would do/whatever?
Varee (9002) - Shakerag
Dude. Why are you asking me.Varee (9002) - Shakerag
Shakerag, explain? Is "Shakerag voting" the ability to use over 9001 votes?
/me hold assERROR: No donkeys on vicinity.
What if I vote and unvote for everyone?TheDarkStar: You can do that?
What if I vote and unvote for everyone?TheDarkStar: You can do that?
OK I don't really know what is going on but it seem like we are just lynching random people until the game end somehow?
Huh.Yeah, I'm currently SBC, so that might have something to do with it.
Shakerag: Are you currently a Shakerag? Try using Anyone but Shakerag to become the player Shakerag, perhaps?
TolyK: Can we please have 24 hour nights? I'd rather not wait for ages for my victory.I'll see if I can.
Also, I watched myself kill you last night, Toaster.Misremembered this. I saw myself and I killed Toaster. Separate things.
Jack A T had died!Quick question: How did this happen? Did people with no dead bodies have a chance of dying?
So... Let me figure out who won in the end. This might take some time.
And this was only a semi-bastard (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.msg5764075#msg5764075). I almost want to see what TolyK considers a full bastard game to be.So... Let me figure out who won in the end. This might take some time.
Good grief.
This is precisely what I mean.Jack A T had died!Quick question: How did this happen? Did people with no dead bodies have a chance of dying?
So I made you a mafia with you as a mafia player based on you as a mafia player!If I had only known then what I know now ...
(Pssst - Don't Click This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.new#new))
Can someone explain the end of the game?We're currently waiting for TolyK himself to figure out what happened.
An explanation of the middle and the beginning would be nice, too.As far as I know, everyone stumbled around aimlessly, dealing with whatever new nonsense we had to deal with (genies, fake nuke buttons, reverse guns, DF mode, mandates, a velociraptor, etc.) until my dead partner Tiruin told me that TolyK had told Jim in the deadchat how everyone could win, and that Shakerag had to die. Then we made Shakerag die, something that could only happen because a velociraptor became a Shakerag by eating Vector. Then the cult and the mafia, the latter now suddenly including Varee, spent a while trying to kill each other's endless copies. Then something happened, and I probably won.
...Who knows.
So who won? :P
...Shakerag, Cheeetar, the genies, the velociraptor, Vector, Jim Groovester, and zombie urist definitely won. The mafia probably won too.
So who won? :P
I'm confident that I lost. So you can add that one in to narrow it down....Shakerag, Cheeetar, the genies, the velociraptor, Vector, Jim Groovester, and zombie urist definitely won. The mafia probably won too.
So who won? :P
So, any chance of end determination soon?This.
Well, I know for sure that I lost because all anti-cult factions didn't die.I guess we'll never know for certain at this point.
So ... TolyK hasn't been around for a while ... anyone happen to know where he got off to?I hope both are ok :/
Maybe webadict can give us the post-game breakdown?
It's pretty hard to count this as a win since I had absolutely no idea what I was doing for any of the game ever.To be fair, I never authorized the use of genies. These genies were completely against regulations.
Web’s idea:
Give everyone several ridiculous abilities with names that are Shakeragian
Give players a similarly ridiculous wincondition
Give the players a way to win if every wincondition is achieved
Laugh as the slightest oversight or screw-up perpetuates a downward spiral of deceit and destruction
Example: Role is Shakerag the Easter Bunny. Has (Auto) The Egg That Breaks If Anyone Actions You: If anyone actions you between now and Night 2, your eggs break, because you placed all of your eggs into one basket.
Day 3 comes around and the eggs hatch into something both needed for someone else’s wincondition and yet detrimental to everyone else.
Wuba: All votes are for Shakerags. If you vote for a Shakerag role, you can lynch that role. That's hidden.I'm pretty sure this was one of the ways Shakerag could've died.
TolyK/Nowan: Obviously, this will be used during this game. :p
TolyK/Nowan:
More role ideas:
Player gets notified at the beginning or end of every phase: “You know who Shakerag is”. Meanwhile, Shakerag has an auto that lets his apparent role name be whatever he sets it to, including other players (by default). Thus Shakerag can be “Playername”, and we’ll be bastards without actually lying...
Good job, Mastahcheese. You successfully rattled me. My jimmies are thoroughly rustled.
I guess I should have said "This isn't the gambit you're looking for"
Jim stabs flabort in the face and nobody bats an eye.
But you trick one guy into shooting himself and everyone loses their fucking minds. [/reference]
This game is awesome!
Does anyone want a backwards firing gun or an explosive panic button?
50% off, limited time only.
Hmm...
No visible effects and no pm from TolyK.
Okay then.
SBC: did what I actioned you with do anything to you?
4mask, TolyK has not yet informed me of an action yet.
4mask, Actually he just did, damn messages. Thanks for targeting me with a nuke.
Oh so that's what that does...
I am rather positive the Jim will murderstomp me, so I shall "Bah"You're damn straight.
STOP
(Silver) HAMMERTIME
CAN'T TOUCH TH*Splat*
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?At this point? TolyK.
Did I mention I'm pretty much a time lord? Because I'm pretty much a time lord.
4 more votes to shorten day.
Shakerag has started glowing.
What the fuck, I'm glowing.
So I made you a mafia with you as a mafia player based on you as a mafia player!If I had only known then what I know now ...
(Pssst - Don't Click This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145144.new#new))
It actually was a bastard mod, but a bastard mod would advertise it as a semi-bastard just to be a bastard.
Can someone explain the end of the game?We're currently waiting for TolyK himself to figure out what happened.An explanation of the middle and the beginning would be nice, too.As far as I know, everyone stumbled around aimlessly, dealing with whatever new nonsense we had to deal with (genies, fake nuke buttons, reverse guns, DF mode, mandates, a velociraptor, etc.) until my dead partner Tiruin told me that TolyK had told Jim in the deadchat how everyone could win, and that Shakerag had to die. Then we made Shakerag die, something that could only happen because a velociraptor became a Shakerag by eating Vector. Then the cult and the mafia, the latter now suddenly including Varee, spent a while trying to kill each other's endless copies. Then something happened, and I probably won.
4mask, Actually he just did, damn messages. Thanks for targeting me with a nuke.Heh... I forgot about that... Oh man that nuke scare was hilarious.
Oh so that's what that does...
Yes, I intended to have it encompassed as well. Added.
I think my next post makes it even better.
Eheheeheheh.Jim stabs flabort in the face and nobody bats an eye.
But you trick one guy into shooting himself and everyone loses their fucking minds. [/reference]
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod :P
I can assure you whatever balance there was has had a wrench thrown into it.
Along with a bag of cogs, a barrel of gunpowder, and a bunch of bacon.
Holy hell.Agreed, those statistics are mind boggling.