Post by: Soadreqm on September 25, 2019, 02:56:57 pm
You walk and hover around a randomly generated cave system, casting magic spells from randomly generated wands, and finally die due to your own hubris. The magic includes several kinds of damage-dealing projectiles, and also explosives, clouds, liquid generators, spells that act as modifiers to other spells, projectiles that trigger other spells upon impact, and several things that are mostly good for killing yourself by accident. You can combine different spell effects, and should you somehow survive, build some truly overpowered things.
There's falling water, falling sand, falling crates of explosives and other falling things. Also burning things.
(https://i.imgur.com/f9RTwOD.gif)
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on September 25, 2019, 03:15:33 pm
I mean the game can be cool, and there are many things to find; but everything is random, many things are limited ("big" spells have a limited number of cast per dungeon) and you can only re-arrange your spells in your wands (to put the "shotgun modifier on a wand instead of another, for example) in the "between dungeon" area, you can not really test things.
It is fun, but I feel like it could be twice as good with little improvements :/
Post by: se5a on September 25, 2019, 05:08:45 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 25, 2019, 08:54:25 pm
and you can only re-arrange your spells in your wands (to put the "shotgun modifier on a wand instead of another, for example) in the "between dungeon" area, you can not really test things.
Do you mean having a target dummy or the like? You can still fire your wands quite liberally in the 'between dungeon' area, so I haven't had too much issue fiddling with spell sequences. (That said, I have almost killed myself a couple of times doing so...)
Edit: Turns out "edit wands anywhere" is one of the random perks you can pick in between levels. It's called that outright, too, so it's not one of the cryptic ones.
Post by: Soadreqm on September 26, 2019, 02:06:44 am
I mean the game can be cool, and there are many things to find; but everything is random, many things are limited ("big" spells have a limited number of cast per dungeon) and you can only re-arrange your spells in your wands (to put the "shotgun modifier on a wand instead of another, for example) in the "between dungeon" area, you can not really test things.Yeah, that's definitely true. I think it's deliberate, to force the player to dive deeper and take risks. If you remove the limits, you can easily start running into the opposite problem, where you can easily make an overpowered wand and no longer have any need to experiment.
Post by: Yoink on September 26, 2019, 03:08:43 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2019, 06:44:40 am
Post by: Virtz on September 26, 2019, 08:34:15 am
If you test out some more destructive spells during that in-between level and you damage enough of the surrounding area, you will have an invincible enemy spawn over the upgrade altar who will shoot explosive spells at you and slowly follow you throughout the rest of the game, always respawning at the altar. Plus I don't think you can test out spells with limited uses without spending those uses, since the refill is a thing you pick up at the start of it.and you can only re-arrange your spells in your wands (to put the "shotgun modifier on a wand instead of another, for example) in the "between dungeon" area, you can not really test things.
Do you mean having a target dummy or the like? You can still fire your wands quite liberally in the 'between dungeon' area, so I haven't had too much issue fiddling with spell sequences. (That said, I have almost killed myself a couple of times doing so...)
Edit: Turns out "edit wands anywhere" is one of the random perks you can pick in between levels. It's called that outright, too, so it's not one of the cryptic ones.
With that and the stringent inventory limit, it really does feel like they're punishing you for trying to take more educated guesses.
That said, the game has massive potential and is still fun and interesting to play.
Post by: Cthulhu on September 26, 2019, 11:26:23 am
i found a wand with like ten bolts, a triple, a bounce, and a fire l, which just sprayed fiery bolts in random directions, setting everything on fire and killing me
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 26, 2019, 11:42:26 am
The first thing to check is whether or not the wand has "yes" to shuffle - that means it'll randomly go through the spells before recharging instead of going through in the right order. E.g. 1234, 4231, 1324, etc.
If shuffle is at "no," then it'll run through all the spells in sequence before triggering the wand recharge cooldown (the second of the two cooldown figures). I.e. 1234, 1234, 1234...
One mouse click will only fire one salvo (usually set to a single spell attack, though some wands will do more at once naturally). Holding the mouse button down will fire as fast as the inter-sequence cooldown allows (the first of the two cooldown figures).
If it's a spell that triggers another spell upon completion, you still need mana for the subsequent stage or that subsequent stage will not trigger.
Otherwise... it seems like a modifier affects the spell immediately afterwards (or adjacent?), except that with the chainsaw/melee spell I could get a faster rate of fire by putting splitters and the like after the spell instead of beforehand.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 26, 2019, 06:54:45 pm
Then I got a message "You have angered the gods" and a lot of monsters attacked me all at once. So don't do that?
Post by: Soadreqm on September 27, 2019, 09:48:23 am
Mmm... so I hit a polymorph potion, turned into some kind of worm. I burrowed straight down. Turns out the temples between levels are literally between levels. I burrowed through two of them before turning back into a person.Yeah, the entire world is continuous. With enough black hole spells, or chaotic polymorph juice, you can go anywhere.
Then I got a message "You have angered the gods" and a lot of monsters attacked me all at once. So don't do that?
The divine punishment occurs when you dig through the temple, or more commonly, when anything else digs through the temple. It only spawns one temple guardian though, so the things that attacked you were probably just the normal monsters for the level you were at.
Post by: Cthulhu on September 29, 2019, 11:15:32 am
My best random wand so far, once I cleaned up the spell order, was bifurcated cast and three bouncing sparks with trigger, basically a bullet hell wand that filled any enclosed space with bouncing sparks. Unlike the sawblades which also bounce, the sparks don't damage you, so you can just fill a room with sparks and run through it. Another really good spell is glowing lance, which passes through any loose material. Really good in snow and coal heavy areas, you can hide behind them and kill people through the powder.
Favorite death so far, I got the electric perk which electrifies any metal you're touching, accidentally landed on one of those sea-mines. It blew up and threw me across the cave, directly into an oil barrel, which also blew up. I got alley-ooped.
And yeah, the whole map is one instance. THere's a lot more than just the sequence of levels passing through holy mountain. If you find chaotic polymorphine (remember you can right click to squirt instead of throwing it) you can fly over the cliff to the right, there's a floating island with an orb and an altar, and even further to the right there's a desert with a pyramid dungeon. Underground there's a lava field on the right which I haven't managed to cross yet, don't know what's on the other side. To the left of the dungeon there seems to be a side dungeon that goes all the way to the bottom with no holy mountain transitions.
Post by: Soadreqm on September 30, 2019, 02:26:41 pm
Underground there's a lava field on the right which I haven't managed to cross yetYou can refill any flask with water. Spray the contents out with right mouse, and then step into deep water while holding the empty flask.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 30, 2019, 02:31:40 pm
Post by: Virtz on September 30, 2019, 02:39:55 pm
Post by: Soadreqm on September 30, 2019, 03:00:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The only thing limiting how much you can drink is time. You can drain any body of water eventually.
Post by: Aoi on September 30, 2019, 03:46:04 pm
The only thing limiting how much you can drink is time. You can drain any body of water eventually.
I'm really not sure how to feel about myself that one of the first things that crossed my mind was mild disappointment that the liquids just disappear and not gradually get converted into urine.
Post by: SharpKris on September 30, 2019, 03:54:14 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on September 30, 2019, 04:00:09 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 30, 2019, 04:09:56 pm
1120638359
Post by: Frumple on September 30, 2019, 05:32:54 pm
So far best spell i had was on a wand with no shuffle that had spark with a trigger and Cross explosion. it helped that i had the homing perk so the trigger spark will fly towards enemies and the Cross exploded on top of them for 90dmg.I watched a run where someone just... took one pip of lighting bolt (the jaggy screw off one with the zappy explosion at the end) in a wand early and then facerolled the rest of the game. Killed multiple temple guardians with it, since apparently they can be stunlocked by electricity. It's was pretty amusing, in some ways...
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 30, 2019, 05:54:38 pm
Post by: Aoi on September 30, 2019, 05:55:53 pm
So far best spell i had was on a wand with no shuffle that had spark with a trigger and Cross explosion. it helped that i had the homing perk so the trigger spark will fly towards enemies and the Cross exploded on top of them for 90dmg.I watched a run where someone just... took one pip of lighting bolt (the jaggy screw off one with the zappy explosion at the end) in a wand early and then facerolled the rest of the game. Killed multiple temple guardians with it, since apparently they can be stunlocked by electricity. It's was pretty amusing, in some ways...
I just got that one-- I didn't look at it too closely and thought it was a primarily beam-type spell so I tossed it on a wand of mine that fired multiple times in random directions.
I didn't make it out of the temple.
Edit: This RNG... First temple, I got a 50% chance that other perks don't disappear after picking one. Second temple, I get an extra perk to show in subsequent temples. Third temple? Increased aggression, decreased aggression, ability to equip bomb spells as items, and glass cannon. Uhm. Thank you? And in other news: Don't jump into water with an electric wand.
Post by: Frumple on September 30, 2019, 09:50:57 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on September 30, 2019, 10:08:47 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 01, 2019, 06:54:49 am
Post by: Frumple on October 01, 2019, 07:13:15 am
Keep in mind electricity will detonate anything explosive, aside from the wooden box bombs. Being immune to electricity doesn't help you if you get blowed up.Being immune to explosions does, though! Getting both immunities is where it's at :P
Post by: Cthulhu on October 02, 2019, 10:41:01 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 03, 2019, 04:45:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Soadreqm on October 05, 2019, 08:22:38 am
It'd probably be trivial with melee immunity, though. All the other worms at least only have a melee attack, and can't hurt you in any way if you have the perk.
I watched a run where someone just... took one pip of lighting bolt (the jaggy screw off one with the zappy explosion at the end) in a wand early and then facerolled the rest of the game. Killed multiple temple guardians with it, since apparently they can be stunlocked by electricity. It's was pretty amusing, in some ways...My first win was becoming immune to both electricity and explosions, and then finding a lightning bolt wand. It's really powerful, but also very easy to kill yourself with it.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 05, 2019, 09:16:35 am
I met the dragonworm once, and died instantly. Barely even saw it.I'll just say it has more than melee, but I did manage to kill it 2nd time.
It'd probably be trivial with melee immunity, though. All the other worms at least only have a melee attack, and can't hurt you in any way if you have the perk.
Post by: Cthulhu on October 05, 2019, 08:47:49 pm
After Hiisi Base I found basically the same wand with six heavy magic bolts, which was a lot better obviously, but I died because fuck the jungle.
Also, heavy shot gives the bonus damage to beam spells but doesn't affect their trajectory. A wand with just heavy spell and concentrated light does 66 damage on a straight vector and bounces.
Post by: Kagus on October 09, 2019, 10:25:04 am
Had a reasonably successful run earlier today that got cut short by dropping down the shaft into the ice caves and landing on top of 3 jetpack assholes and a tank, backed up by a sniper and lightning spirit. That was another run where I got to abuse and exploit the Homing Projectiles perk for all it's worth.
So, the perk in general is just sorta okay... It likes to fuck with long-range shots because it'll just find something else to home in on, even if it's on the other side of a wall, and some projectiles really don't work well with the homing in general.
But then we get to abnormal projectiles, and things start getting fun... A number of spells are classed as "projectiles" even when they don't work like your standard shooty bolts and fireballs. The mist spells (slime/blood/whiskey etc.), for instance. The center of the mist cloud is technically a projectile, it just has 0 speed and 0 gravity and doesn't disappear when it "hits" something. The green rain cloud from the acid rain spell is also a projectile, as are the explosions from the cross charge spells.
Homing goes absolutely apeshit with these projectiles. Since they normally have no speed or gravity, the only force acting upon them is the "slight" homing effect, causing them to zero in on nearby enemies with extreme prejudice. Now, having your own little acid storm cloud following you around is already pretty disastrous, but how about we make this even worse?
Projectile modifiers work on these abnormal projectiles. This includes stuff like fire trails, poison trails... And lightning charge. It's only +8 electric damage or so, but it's +8 every time a projectile "impacts" an enemy... Which in the case of abnormal projectiles like mist clouds can happen hundreds of times for a single shot, because the hitbox will intersect with an enemy but the projectile won't go away. And of course it'll shock liquids and metals and stun enemies and all that good stuff.
On my best run, I had two wands that abused this synergy. One was just a paired set of electric cross charges, so while the explosion is charging up they'd home in on and zap anything that moved before detonating. Very handy, and actually remarkably manageable.
Then there was the Armageddon wand. Pure destruction. A timed spark bolt that fired a quadruple multishot of four whiskey mists, with a projectile modifier... Namely, fireball thrower. Because of how modifiers and multicasts work, it used a single charge of fireball thrower to apply it to all four mists. Hurl it into a room and go hide behind something while the world ends.
I miss that wand...
Post by: Frumple on October 10, 2019, 08:33:04 pm
E:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 01:52:46 am
Haven't even gotten to any of the works yet, the game is surprisingly massive considering its early state of development... And how many dumb little annoyances are still in the game, like impossible alchemy recipes (kinda understandable considering how absolutely ridiculous Midas' Draught is) and blasphemous worms...
There's apparently a new beta version that dropped yesterday that fixes some of the stuff with worms angering the gods, and also makes you start the game with a full flask of water to make the early going a little easier.
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 06:00:58 am
Any case, works is super easy to get to if you have a source of infinite flight (I was just cheating and had infinite lev, but I've seen legit ways to pull it off).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 06:35:55 am
There's a map. It was... Quite a lot bigger than I was expecting (that's what she said).
Especially considering there were notes on all four edges saying "repeats infinitely until the game becomes unstable and crashes"... And I'm just here trying to get down to the Vault again.
But yeah, explosion immunity neutralizes the main issue of that one. I'm pretty sure it goes a bit nutty if you have Glass Cannon as well, so if you've got immunity you basically just turn into a wrecking ball.
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 09:26:01 am
Maybe could tweak it so you can phase or automatically eat through frozen stuff, I'unno. As is it's mostly a "kill me" button.
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 09:57:54 am
The toxic ice part sounds awful though. Shame toxic immunity doesn't cover toxic ice/rock....
Post by: Egan_BW on October 11, 2019, 12:07:56 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 12:35:21 pm
Freeze field does put out fires though, which is pretty neat.
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 01:38:43 pm
Also maybe I misremembered the name? I was talking the perk that passively freezes liquids near you, not a spell component or somethin'. It's neat in a lot of ways, but stupidly deadly for you. Like, I was cheating so it didn't kill me, but I lost count of the amount of times I bled or something bled on me or otherwise dumped liquid over my head, just in time for an explosion or burrower or something to slam into me. You don't survive freeze field, heh.
Post by: Soadreqm on October 11, 2019, 03:05:25 pm
I've never had it at the same time with More Blood, but yeah, I can see why that would be really bad.
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 03:27:27 pm
In my 5:30 hour run (that got ended by a single blinding shot), I'm pretty sure I drank several thousand liters of blood... And the Hiisi base was still a total abbatoir when I left.
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 04:07:01 pm
E: D: the burning man is like a goddamn magnet to these things once it catches fire
no deer what are you doing oh god they're all on fire
...
... my flask of water managed to save two. The buck didn't make it. Poor deer.
E2: walk up to the sheep flock
sheep start intermittently hurling themselves into the lake
and not, like, falling
these sheep freaking jump
has to be at least three or four sheep lengths
and then they just slowly bob their way off screen
this shit is weird
E3: oh
no, by bob their way offscreen i mean get about halfway to the edge of it and then drown
the sheep float, but not well, and do not swim
so they die
what the hell
E4: you have got to be shitting me
essence of fire, why do you exist
I guess I'm an explosion now
P.s. the sheep didn't make it. Or the deer. Or the duck.
E5: oh come on
Perk description: That was not the best of ideas.
i would appear to be permanently drunk, now e6: wait no it's just added whiskey trails to all my shots
E7: huh, the vault is surprisingly close to the surface, apparently?
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on October 11, 2019, 05:20:19 pm
It makes the fireball bouncy, so it's way harder to use them to destroy walls, especially when not at floor level.
IT does not make the Glowing Lance bouncy, even though it's a spell that feels "heavy" and would benefit from it.
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 05:39:02 pm
Serious suggestion to anyone, though: Figure out a way to play this with infinite health. Game is crazy enough as is, when you don't have to worry about your own spells killing you...
Everything was fire. Fire, whiskey, flaming whiskey, explosions, exploding whiskey, exploding flaming whiskey, essence of spirits is indeed a bad idea but holy is hell it a trip if it can't kill you.
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2019, 06:47:27 pm
Also good god the Steam forums are toxic...
Post by: Frumple on October 11, 2019, 07:06:28 pm
... also made my first one-shot-to-lag spell. Kinda' disappointing, all it is is four stacked flaming trails and a burning trail on a single bouncing burst shot. Seems like you can't burn more than 100%, so it's not, like... good. For much. But it makes a game chugging line of pure fire so that's nice.
Game need a perk that makes it so there's not a limit to how much you can set something on fire. Every extra 100% increments the damage or somethin'.
E: Other thing the game needs: Let you kick stuff through portals. I want to watch a minecart% speedrun, where the goal is to kill the final boss with the starting minecart in the shortest time possible. Dunno if it's possible right now, but that'd make it a lot more straightforward.
Post by: Kagus on October 12, 2019, 04:50:03 am
E: Other thing the game needs: Let you kick stuff through portals. I want to watch a minecart% speedrun, where the goal is to kill the final boss with the starting minecart in the shortest time possible. Dunno if it's possible right now, but that'd make it a lot more straightforward.I feel like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZZK7GXwIC4) is appropriate viewing material for the subject matter.
Also, I think I've seen damage field once, but never got around to using it. Would probably be absolutely sick on a homing mist... And yeah, while triple flame trails only have a very slightly higher chance to set enemies on fire (and not a lot of fire as one would hope), they are indeed very good at lagging the game... And also confusing the crap out of water physics.
I think it's kind of a shame that stuff like fire and sludge damage is as low as it is against enemies, as it makes a lot of burny stuff take on a completely utilitarian role of fighting the environment (and sludge is just right out). 1hp damage ticks on an enemy that has thousands of hitpoints aren't going to do a whole lot.
Acid wrecks shit like nobody's business, but it's not really a DoT in the traditional sense and it can be a bit tricky to manage properly due to its short lifespan. Poison is supposedly pretty decent against enemies, but lots of stuff is straight up immune to it and also it has the opposite problem of not going away at all, meaning you'll have to walk through your own poison puddles if you're not careful. At least the gas burns...
EDIT: Beta branch has now been merged, so the game's been updated with a bunch of tweaks! Notable changes include: Touching 1-2 hidden pixels of toxic sludge will no longer give you the DoT unless you're already stained, you start the game with a full flask of water, and the full heal hearts in the holy mountain now also provide +10 maximum HP. Also "safe zones" have been added to levels like the snow caves and Hiisi base, so you don't immediately get snipe-banged the moment you drop down the hole.
Post by: Frumple on October 12, 2019, 07:06:03 am
E: Also, speaking of hiisi, anyone know why exactly its combat music is oldschool porn sleeze music? What exactly am I walking into with that place?
Post by: Kagus on October 12, 2019, 08:08:42 am
E: Also, speaking of hiisi, anyone know why exactly its combat music is oldschool porn sleeze music? What exactly am I walking into with that place?They have bottles of acid, gunpowder, and blood in their bars.
I'm pretty sure we don't want to know anything about that zone.
Also, the new update added protection against worm attacks in the temple! This is done by adding a small chamber under the main holy mountain area that contains a large ornate "worm crystal" that keeps worms at bay so they don't chew through the sacred areas.
I learned this when a worm chewed straight through the crystal chamber and angered the gods, thus opening it up for me to go inside and look around.
Post by: Frumple on October 12, 2019, 08:45:06 am
Post by: Kagus on October 12, 2019, 09:01:56 am
Not even a solid tabula smackdown managed to kill one of those things. Good to know!
Also, speaking of polymorph... There was a comment from someone on the Steam forum about how dangerous fluids like polymorph, teleportatium, lava etc. can be put into a flask by just using the inventory screen to drop the flask into the liquid, rather than standing in it with the flask in your hand. It's also apparently possible to fill flasks via mist spells, which is also good knowledge to have.
Post by: Frumple on October 12, 2019, 07:33:39 pm
Also I just noticed the enemy list under progress. Those definitely are words. I think.
E: You'd think a friggin' moon would be easier to find :-\
Post by: Kagus on October 13, 2019, 03:00:48 am
And yeah, most of the enemy names are just simple descriptor words, but it looks strange and mysterious to us non-Finns. There was actually a short topic about that on the Steam forum, and like many others it got a little toxic for absolutely no reason.
I had a really good run fizzle out and die in the alternative vault before I could grab the orb in there... So to show the game what I thought about that, I took an entirely unprepared character over to the lake, grabbed the essence to see what that was like, and then hurled a thunderstone into the lake. So there.
Managed to lose my water flask on the way, which was unfortunate, but I survived all the way back to the welcoming committee that spawns if you climb the tree.
I'm partially tempted to just grab the cheat engine for this thing and muck around, but also kinda don't. Like, I don't even use the alchemy calculator for my seeds to see if I got a lucky combo to cakewalk the game with. Which I'm guessing is part of what the tryhards on Steam are doing, while preaching purity and honor.
Post by: Frumple on October 13, 2019, 05:53:59 am
Though it suddenly occurs to me that it makes absolute and total sense that basically sandboxing in a game pointedly influenced by the ol' sandbox powder games would be notably enjoyable. Like, the pedigree shows itself or somethin'.
E: Oh, fun minor thing. I won't say where it is, but the lake has a second essence. Sorta' harder to get to, but also less immediately suicidal. Only slightly less likely to set you on fire, though :P
E2: Playing with teleportium near the lava lake #PoorDecisionMaking
Fun thing, though. Pouring a layer of teleportium on top of that lake makes it remarkably difficult to get out of it, should you somehow end up in it. You reach the surface and get blinked back into the lava, eesh.
Post by: Soadreqm on October 13, 2019, 01:42:51 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 13, 2019, 02:14:36 pm
... mind, you'd be more likely to survive the experience. But it'd be decently likely to take longer, one way or another.
Post by: Kagus on October 13, 2019, 03:15:34 pm
So yes, it puts out all fires near you... But it doesn't directly prevent you from catching on fire. And if you do, good fucking luck putting it out again.
You can also be poisoned by poison gas or get teleportitis from fluid, which you can't wash off anymore because fluids freeze around you.
Post by: Inarius on October 13, 2019, 05:19:02 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 13, 2019, 07:20:46 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on October 13, 2019, 08:11:13 pm
And yes, it can definitely be irritating to develop a nice wand & spells then lose it all to a bit of the chaos that happens from time to time. I'm enjoying it more in moderation & without getting too attached to any run. More about the journey than the destination and all that.
Edit: Having said that, I really do wish there was a way to change up your starting spells a bit to diversify the very beginning. I'd love to have a semi-random couple of wands instead of the usual peashooter and bomb.
Post by: Frumple on October 13, 2019, 09:13:31 pm
Quote from: wand i just found
spells/cast 5!!!
Quote from: that same wand
capacity 4wait what
how do you even work
E: And yeah, some starting variation would be great. Maybe a third wand with a random non-bomb ammo thing?
Post by: beorn080 on October 14, 2019, 01:17:52 am
Post by: Soadreqm on October 14, 2019, 01:43:37 am
So yes, it puts out all fires near you... But it doesn't directly prevent you from catching on fire. And if you do, good fucking luck putting it out again.You can put out a fire by diving into oil instead. Or magic potions.
Post by: Micro102 on October 14, 2019, 03:15:05 am
Post by: Kagus on October 14, 2019, 03:36:51 am
There's apparently some planned progression with unlocking new spells, but that hasn't been implemented yet so all spells are currently unlocked by default.
Post by: Frumple on October 14, 2019, 08:05:05 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Soadreqm on October 14, 2019, 10:05:55 am
https://i.imgur.com/c30fc9m.png (https://i.imgur.com/c30fc9m.png)
There's other snippets of text in the game, too. The runes on those standing stones that show the game controls are the same, just a larger font.
Post by: Frumple on October 14, 2019, 10:55:13 pm
Whatever it is, the description is pretty misleading. It doesn't explode terrain so much as cause modified projectiles to just explode on contact, and for a pretty hefty chunk of damage. Loaded the thing with more or less just some summon arrows, and then it was off to the races. Brutally annihilated two or three zones, pretty cheerfully murdering basically everything I encountered in a few shots, usually even if I missed. Lasted right up until I somehow bugged out the game and stopped being able to pick things up.
It's not the most straightforward killer shuffle wand I've seen*, but it was up there.
* that one was a few runs ago, that had built-in recharge shortening, that I loaded up with multi-spells, spread reduction, damage boosting, and a handful of... gods, names, piercing light or something, the thin laser beams. Didn't have the greatest stamina, but it was a freakish gatling laser from hell that basically fired conglomerated giant fuckoff beams right out of nanoha or something. Full unload would spew a beam of light as large or larger than my character and kill just about anything not in the works, and there was near no travel time. Plus it bounced a bit, so even aim was largely conditional. You just pointed in things general direction and more or less deleted them. It was great :P
Post by: Soadreqm on October 15, 2019, 01:49:14 am
Lasted right up until I somehow bugged out the game and stopped being able to pick things up.You might have phantom items taking up your item slots. I know Perk Roulette sometimes places copies of perks there for some reason, and though they'll be invisible and unselectable, you can drop them to fix it.
Post by: Kagus on October 15, 2019, 02:11:41 am
A warning- do not ponder how to switch around stuff on your wands in order to go grab a really fancy wand with stuff like lightning bolt and poison arcs while standing in water holding out a wand with a thunder effect and low HP.Another warning: Do not open chests underwater. They can contain thunderstones, or flasks of chaotic polymorphium that will immediately shatter and turn you into something that doesn't like being in water.
Just shoot chests to open them instead.
Post by: Man of Paper on October 15, 2019, 04:59:56 am
Post by: PTTG?? on October 15, 2019, 10:26:47 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 15, 2019, 10:48:55 pm
And then there's the neighbors. Gun dudes are a nuisance, but other than the fat ones generally not a super noticable threat if you have a wand that just sorta' erases them, of which there are many, many combinations of wands that will do so. It's much harder to functionally or explicitly one-shot a lot of the other fauna (or some of the flora, for that matter), some of which is actually hostile to those guys.
... and then there's the infinite OSHA violation that is their highly volatile and explosive homes. Half the time the things die before they can reach you because something decided to detonate one of the myriad explode-y things they have laying around. Nevermind ruling the world, it's a small miracle the places they're in aren't already a smoking ruin before you get to them.
Basically these guys aren't world rulers in Noitaland They're more like random vermin infesting the place. Them being more swole and accurate than you doesn't matter, because even if they're bigger rats than you, you're the rat carrying a man-portable nuclear gatling gun. Possibly literally since the bloody game has a straight up "nuke" spell component. Though yeah, scurry around a bit and get your wandcraft on, and you'll only lose on health to maybe the fat ones and damage to none of them. Accuracy and numbers you can't do much about, but overwhelming firepower you don't have to aim much is more on the table. Who cares if you hit the wall instead of the gundude if the wall explodes and everything dies anyway?
Post by: Aoi on October 15, 2019, 11:03:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on October 16, 2019, 03:40:34 pm
Went through the coal mines fairly quickly as well, but stopped to strip a few wands while I was there. Found an absolutely obscene wand that, while shuffle, had 3 spells/cast and "always casts: 3x multicast", loaded up with 15 giant firebolts (and a formation cast: pentagon that I very quickly removed). So, uh... Yeah. Complete murderstick.
Hit the snowy caves, tested out a new spell, health got a little low and I decided to make the trek up and around. Made it back to the mines, picked up the health regen I'd saved, and now had a reasonably solid 145 health. Headed down and nuked a little more of the coal mines, making sure to be careful (which was easy enough as I had a great cornering wand by that point), and was primed for round 2 of the snowy caves.
Got in, found a hilarious wand with a whole bunch of awesome stuff on it, played inventory tetris for a while to pack everything I wanted up, prepped myself, moved a little to the left...
...some jetpack douche in a ravine under where I was flying (just offscreen) fired off a random wand he'd found. The cluster of fireballs didn't actually hit me, but one of them impacted the ice sheet just close enough to where I was that it tagged me for a teensy bit of health and set me on fire... And since I was flying at the time, that meant complete stunlock.
I got blasted off into an unexplored narrow chute further ahead, where I slammed into a freezing skull, then fell a little further down into an Ukko's lightning blast, got stun-blasted back into the skull and was chain-headbutted to death before I could even move.
In unrelated news, the earth essence is remarkably annoying, but not as unavoidably deadly as, say, light. It also provides little to no positive value to offset this.
Post by: Frumple on October 16, 2019, 04:38:57 pm
Possibly best essence I've found so far is spirit, tbh. Much more manageable, and actually sometimes sorta' useful. Also less directly deadly, though still super capable of setting you (and basically everything else) on fire.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 16, 2019, 06:34:00 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 16, 2019, 07:20:44 pm
Edit anywhere is... honestly kinda' powerful, and strips a lot of the decision making from the game. Maybe if it destroyed wands you drop by default or something, with a replacement perk changing that behavior? That'd be a decently hefty nerf. Alternatively, you can only move spell components a certain number of times between mountains or somethin', stuff like that. Edit anywhere lets you casually strip wands of spell components as you go, which cuts a fair amount of strategy et al from the game. If it was default it would probably need to be limited, somehow.
Post by: Kagus on October 16, 2019, 07:24:04 pm
However, those are also all the things that get tossed out the window for easy mode if you're lucky enough to grab the perk. Also it leads to blasphemy and embarrassing deaths in close quarters because it forces the holy mountain to be your wand/spell testing range (like that time I misjudged the sheer magnitude of water produced by a triple multicast mist with water trail, and ended up flooding the temple to the point that I drowned before I could escape).
It also gets slightly ruined by the fact that just killing the lich and tunneling through the floor prevents the editing flag from being tripped, meaning you can return to that level to edit wands at your leisure provided you've got advanced tunneling capability and are good at stomping the lich (they can apparently get squished fairly reliably by a solid tablet smackdown), leading the "git gud" crowd to say that the perk's not even necessary.
As for flight stunning, that is an incredibly strange handicap and I don't even know if it's intended or just a bizarre bug. Jetpackers actually do something similar, but in an entirely half-assed fashion that leaves them nowhere near as vulnerable.
Post by: Kagus on October 17, 2019, 03:38:37 am
Post by: Frumple on October 17, 2019, 06:36:51 am
E: Now, what there really needs to be is a perk that lets you stay poly'd indefinitely, probably let you kick your way out of it or something. Then you can play poly roulette until you hit the lich or somethin' and have some fun. actually, can you hit bosses with those things? Is there some small chance to turn into the dragon?
E2: Also daily (or just random) form runs would probably be pretty great. Have your base form for that game be some random critter.
Post by: Kagus on October 17, 2019, 07:36:53 am
Thanks to a lucky combination of getting Breathless as my second perk (and Personal Shield as the first, love that thing) and picking up a wand with lava to blood and another wand with rapid-fire magic bolts (the green unlimited ones with the +critchance), I managed to chew my way down through the lava in the volcano to grab the nuke orb. Still haven't used nuke, but I've sure picked it up a bunch of times!
Then once I'd basically emptied the caldera (an incredibly tedious process due to how lava to blood actually works in practice), I swung my way up around and, with just a teensy dash of stolen polymorph potion (there was a vat of it in the world, I just tapped a little bit into an empty flask by making a puddle and gently tossing the flask into it) made my way up and over the tree.
From there, I made the long and slow trek across the wastes and jumped into the lake, then tortured myself with swimming down the whole way to the essence chamber... Cracked open the essence chamber with the magic bolts (thank goodness those things can dig; wouldn't have been able to do any of this without that), and grabbed... Essence of Spirits.
Despite the descriptive text of "This was not a good idea", it's by far the most harmless of the essences I've seen thus far. It's actually even helpful, which can't be said of most of the others.
After grabbing that and making the equally dull slog up to the surface, I hopped back over the tree, inebriated and destroyed the welcoming committee that had spawned (screw those things, seriously. What's even the point?), then walked aaaaaaall the way back across the map to get to the pyramid. Nabbed the only interesting wand in there, got some corpseflies drunk, and then did the easter egg of summoning the secret spider boss. Tried shooting at it a few times, couldn't even seem to damage it, walked back and forth a little and the spider apparently disappeared into both the underground (I could hear things shooting at it) and the sky (I got a couple energy blasts fired at me from above after a while) simultaneously. Never saw it again though, so I guess it lost interest.
By this point I was a little low on health and decided to hop back down into the underground. Got as far as the snowy caves before things kinda went to shit, but they at least did so in a highly entertaining fashion...
Protip: Don't use whiskey against snipers. They become just as horribly inaccurate as everyone else (except the lobber jetpackers, who don't seem particularly bothered by the debuff) which, while immensely entertaining, also means they can inadvertently lead you by virtue of randomly shooting a little too high/low. Ended up getting pinged by a sniper shot that went through my shield while I was a good 20 degrees off from where the laser had been pointing.
E2: Also daily (or just random) form runs would probably be pretty great. Have your base form for that game be some random critter.The problem with this is just how INCREDIBLY GODDAMN SLOW some of the mobs are, and also how many of them can't use their attacks properly when player controlled.
As far as perma-poly goes, yeah... I think we both know why that would be pretty broken.
In other news, I've got a hypothesis I want to test out... So, if you're holding an empty flask while standing in a mist spell, the bottle will fill up with the mist fluid, even though it doesn't collect on the ground. I've noticed that the circle of vigour spell seems to have the same colors and sound effects as the lively concoction, so I'm wondering if that's actually how it performs its task. LC is apparently stable when bottled, so if you could capture even just a little bit while standing in the field, you might be able to squeeze a few more drops of use out of the spell... If that's even what's happening, of course.
Post by: Frumple on October 17, 2019, 07:56:32 am
Post by: Kagus on October 17, 2019, 11:11:41 am
Ooh, small tip that might be easy to miss: Wands with some knockback make traveling to places like the spirit essence much, much less tedious. Can speed you up pretty significantly, which is nice when places like the lake are so bloody deep.Yeah, was using the knockback on the rapid-fire magic bolt wand as much as its mana could handle, at least on the way down. Going back up it caused a little too much lag to actually be worth it, but that wand got a hell of a lot of (versatile!) usage in the short time I had it.
Anyways, on today's episode of Terrible Awful Things You Definitely, Absolutely, Positively Should Never Do...
So. Projectile Transmutation Field. Straight out the gate this spell's already kinda broken, as it's a huge field that will bite any projectile passing through it and turn it into a harmless animal, either a duck or some variant of flying sheep. And it doesn't wear out with repeated projectiles, it just takes EVERYTHING and neutralizes it, unlike a shield (and it's even bigger than the shield spell to boot)... It'll just sit there and rockblock everything for 2-3 minutes, I'm a little uncertain of how long specifically it takes.
Now, to "balance" this, it only comes with 4 charges and it neutralizes all projectiles, coming or going, including those fired by you.
Ah, but therein lies the first of the problems... Including those fired by you. Which means you can just pop a field and start spamming whatever cheapo projectiles you want into it to spawn a massive horde of animals. Animals that bleed. Quite a lot of blood, given a chainsaw and some time.
So obviously this thing is ridiculous for vampires, with a single casting and some creative wandwork being able to provide an entire level's worth of sweet, succulent blood... But it gets worse.
The field is, like most things, technically a projectile (static projectile, specifically). Which means it can take certain projectile modifiers.
Projectile modifiers like Fireball Thrower.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah. Fireball Thrower causes the projectile it's attached to to launch fireballs in random directions every, oh, 0.25 seconds or so. These fireballs are projectiles. The field transforms all projectiles that are not itself into animals. It lasts for a good couple of minutes.
Um. The game is not having a fun time trying to deal with my mess.
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on October 17, 2019, 11:37:27 am
I haven't seen it yet, and both of these look cool :)
Post by: Kagus on October 17, 2019, 11:48:56 am
Is Fireball thrower one of the newer spells ?Nah it's been around for a couple versions (at least the last version, when I started playing), it's just fairly rare. With good reason.
I haven't seen it yet, and both of these look cool :)
Good grief, the sheer bullshit you can throw together with that modifier... It's great. Almost entirely useless unless you have the specific tools to really make it work, but if you do... Yikes. 14 charges is more than enough to cause some serious damage.
Post by: Frumple on October 17, 2019, 12:21:21 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 18, 2019, 09:38:39 am
Then one of the teleporty magic fuckers appeared next to me and shot me with a bolt. Jumped a few times, managed to get out of any particularly sticky situations, and then got teleported directly adjacent to one of those little purple floaters that move around slowly and don't really do anything.
I learned what they do today. If you're next to them, they hit you with a freezing spell and immobilize you. Then if you're still frozen when they slowly wander over on top of you, you die.
I had almost 200 health left. All gone. *Poof*.
Post by: Frumple on October 18, 2019, 10:39:38 am
... well, maybe you're talking something else since those guys aren't particularly little. Any case, they can do the same freeze/pop-you-like-flimsy-balloon thing.
Post by: Kagus on October 18, 2019, 10:49:45 am
... well, maybe you're talking something else since those guys aren't particularly little. Any case, they can do the same freeze/pop-you-like-flimsy-balloon thing.Compared to a lot of other enemies, pikkuturso are definitely not huge... They've got their big brothers that move faster and can actually fire a tentacle at you, but the small ones just float around slowly. I guess the big turso have the freeze-and-chomp as well? Makes sense, I just never got that close to them before.
I am a bit sad though, had some nice spells and combos... Not to mention Edit Anywhere, Vampirism and a max health of 295.
I mean, shit, that run had survived a terrifying split-second when a random jetpacker finding a 4-cast wand stacked with holy bombs. Luckily, they apparently hate flying sheep, and there were quite a few of those buzzing around in the level after I decided I needed a blood bank... Took himself out in the blast, and I was just far enough away to not get obliterated.
Post by: Frumple on October 18, 2019, 11:12:05 am
Post by: Aoi on October 18, 2019, 02:06:23 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 18, 2019, 02:17:42 pm
For once an interesting tidbit that didn't end in a horrible death: Lava doesn't set off gunpowder. ._.Well... It can, but it's a bit fiddly with how it works. You can see this a lot with the fireflies in the coal mines, seeing as they bleed lava and there are suspicious mountains of gunpowder friggin' everywhere.
Also, unless it's been fixed, the gunpowder trail projectile modifier doesn't make real gunpowder... It makes a substance that just kinda burns up, but doesn't pop or explode at all. The gunpowder arc modifier, on the other hand, makes the real obscenely volatile substance we all know and love!
Post by: Kagus on October 19, 2019, 03:43:30 pm
Got my first win today! Which is also, naturally, my first time even getting past the vault. Perks were mostly just trash, except for when I decided on a whim that I'd grab Homing Projectiles instead of Edit Anywhere, and promptly won the game.
And as luck would have it, when you win, you win with three wands that would've been able to take out the boss on their own. Or, well, I don't actually know about the one, didn't get the chance to try it out... Final boss died within less than a second.
Word to the wise: Tentacle with the freezing modifier will apparently one-shot any enemy in the game. Freeze mod freezes enemies solid, tentacle apparently deals melee damage (and many many ticks of melee damage at that), melee damage against frozen enemies will shatter them or just deal hundreds of times as much damage as normal. So, yeah.
There was a ghost worm thingy in the temple that bugged out in the terrain and then launched itself at light speed out of the rock to pass halfway through me before the next frame. Very rude, luckily I had around 450 health by that point. I slapped him with the tentacle, he poofed, and the little red numbers told me I'd just dealt a couple instances of 1,426 damage. Or thereabouts. Everything I tried it on died in one hit, so I can only assume it's instagib.
...and that's not even the wand I used for most of the game! Nope, I used the good ol' "bunch of homing mists with some form of +damage modifier"! Shock mod is awesome, freeze mod can also be good but it tends to trap itself under a pile of snow... And as it turns out, stuff like impact mod or heavy projectile actually do work. Heavy mod is what I ended up getting, so 4 homing mists that each deal 44 points of untyped damage per tick. Except they don't actually, because a couple of the mists were whiskey mists and I'd put a fiery projectile mod on it, so they were clouds of fire that also had the "guaranteed crits on burning enemies" modifier, so they were four mists dealing 132 points of untyped damage per tick. Plus the fire. And the toxic mist. The fourth mist, slime, was actually very helpful in trapping enemies and preventing them from getting away from the now much-less-maneuverable heavy mists. These things also just pass right through shields, so I ended up killing a lich guardian offscreen before I actually knew what was happening.
The third wand with explosion of thunder barely even got used, unless there was some terrain I wanted to smash my way through. Also, as an aside, never ever use the standard lightning spell with the wiggly projectile modifier... It'll just fire out of the wand directly at a 45 degree angle and smash into the ground you're standing on. Again, thank goodness for 400hp...
Oh yeah, speaking of which; final boss was actually orb-buffed, since I picked up an orb early on for the extra max health. Wouldn't have known it though, he never actually got an attack off.
And just so nobody manages to push all the way through to the temple and then hit an unpleasant surprise; this game does in fact have mimics. Because of course it does.
Post by: Frumple on October 19, 2019, 05:38:01 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 19, 2019, 06:38:38 pm
Mimics, trapped chests, really the moral of the story is to just shoot all the chests open and make peace with however many that ends up ruining. It's for the better.Couldn't agree more...
In other news; for anyone who was wondering, nukes can actually crack the temple brickwork! It's not the explosion itself that does it however, the nuke just has a special effect that causes the terrain above the point of detonation to suffer an earthquake effect and crumble into chunks that then fall down and squish stuff.
Also, they're slightly affected by gravity, and bounce off of shields! Good to know!
And apparently guardian liches can get stuck inside of terrain so that just their feet are left sticking out and you can run inside their shield and kill them with scores of spark bolts!
Post by: Aoi on October 20, 2019, 12:43:48 am
Got a great rapidfire wand-- .07sec, .10sec, high mana, tight aim, and 7 slots.
Perks: (Low Gravity, Stainless, Oil Blood), (Boomerang Spells, Revenge Explosion, Trick Greed), (Saving Grace, Worm Attractor, Teleportitis)
Compare and contrast to a prior run, where I got Perk Lottery, Permanent Shield, and Homing Shots... and the only wand worth mentioning was one that had 7 sets of Black Hole on it. Which was enough to make it my primary weapon and I carved my way down pretty far.
Post by: Kagus on October 21, 2019, 05:18:27 am
This is starting to feel like battle of the RNG...Welcome to Noita,.enjoy your stay! And the next one. And the next one. And the ne- ooh, that looked painful.
In other news, I am again mildly irritated by the game's opacity. Apparently there are systems in place where if you make it through to the portal without directly killing any enemies, a chest will spawn in the holy mountain! Pretty sure that means any "non-accident" kills, so you can probably get away with rushing the tablet and then just squishing things on your first run through the mines, and get a bonus goodie.
Also, the seemingly-completely-useless-and-even-harmful slime/oil blood perks? They've apparently got hidden side effects! Oil blood gives you a 40% explosion resistance! Slime gives 50% projectile resistance! There's fuckall indication of this in-game unless you know how much damage everything does all the time and happen to notice that the red numbers are anomalous!
Learned all that from the wiki. Blah.
Anyways, on today's episode of YASD: Melee indeed is an instant kill on frozen enemies, which means you can freeze something and then kick it for a quick death.
Managed to find a wand with circle of whatsit (the freezing one) and caught a couple dudes in it, including fire spirit/imp. After some fancy footwork (the kick hitbox is NOT easy to work with) I managed to shatter him with a swift boot to his shiny red arse. Gleefully, I hopped over to the other enemy and gave him a good kicking too!
It was one of those big green bags, the ones that don't have any attacks but bleed acid and explode into a bunch of little slimebags when killed. Apparently that still happens when they're frozen! Boom, poof!
Post by: Frumple on October 21, 2019, 08:55:20 am
Today I learned that kicking an angry bag full of acid what can explode into acid and smaller angry bags of acid was a bad idea.
Yours in death,
Kagus
Good to know minecart massacring your way through the first level can net you a free chest, though. I wonder if the holy mountain one can be a mimic...
Post by: Kagus on October 21, 2019, 02:12:07 pm
And then things got crazy. The juncture before the Hiisi base had sea of acid for sale, which meant that with a bit of juggling I managed to crack the bottom open (and piss off the skeleton, who died to electric fury) and thereby bypass the "no editing anymore" trigger, so I had a base I could return to for the stripping and reconfiguring of wands.
And boy, what wands I found... Managed to find an always-homing wand that I slapped a lightning-modded death cross on for a poor man's game-ender, some more acid spells, and the black hole projectile... Along with a speed mod, which is enough to make a single black hole charge punch through the brickwork between the top of the holy mountain shop and the previous level. With that, I successfully connected the Hiisi base with the snowy caverns, thereby technically opening up a route all the way back up to the surface.
Now I've got a couple mist spells, the acid trail mod, and an overloaded wand that's configured to fire a blast of 8 double-range extra-blasty lightning bolts, and right before I saved the game (it's getting a bit late), I found a wand with a couple freeze mods on it... Which will go very nicely with the tentacle spell I found.
Other perks include personal shield and melee immunity (plus saving grace, which I guess is alright since I found a few healing spells), so I'm actually doing fairly well for myself. Still haven't got a proper be-all end-all wand (the ultra-lightning BFW is awesome alpha strike damage, but it has to be used EXTREMELY FUCKING CAREFULLY and it's got some serious recharge/recoil on it), but I'm pulling together all sorts of parts now so it shouldn't be long.
Got all sorts of utility wands though... Digging wand, mist+acid trail for reusable acid rain, healing, passage-making black hole (I'm curious to see how much ground I can cover by doubling up speed mod with the slithering mod, might be enough for a single charge to clear through an entire holy mountain).
Oh yeah, and I've passed by a couple lava-to-blood mods on the way down here. Maybe I'll make it down to Hell and see what that's like!
EDIT: So the game just crashed (luckily only losing a few hours of work, and not the whole run), and I have learned many things.
First off, for the love of all that is holy do NOT go into the desert chasm without a teleport or at least some form of digging/supersonic propulsion. Good grief that was a nightmare going down, and even worse coming back up again!
Second, Tentafreeze (freeze mod on tentacle) will indeed gib everything in the game except for certain bosses. It does appear to one-shot the dragon wyrm, but the secret spider boss took like 5-6 hits before going down. I then put together a teleport wand with both +speed and slithering, and the projectile does move slightly faster with both mods... Unfortunately, this appears to be just fast enough that if you hit the right angle, the projectile will travel too far offscreen and just despawn without teleporting you.
Third, with my new super-teleport in hand, I visited the sky. Tentafreeze kills the sky enemies in one hit, too. That includes the sky worms and the beef cubes with their ridiculous resilience.
Fourth, fuck clouds.
Post by: Aoi on October 22, 2019, 11:18:14 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 23, 2019, 03:37:35 am
Which also meant that it didn't pop when hitting terrain, so it would just pile up in a great big mound and block off passageways very quickly. So, obviously, putting that on an unstable crystal projectile was a horrible idea back when I did that... Because the crystal just sits there for ages, burying itself under a mountain of gunpowder and insulating itself against any sort of interaction that might blow it up (the gunpowder was piling up faster than it could burn).
Currently I've got a very nice "ruin everything" wand that's a timed spark bolt that spits off four mists with double acid trail. This combination is infinitely reusable, and tends to do a pretty good job of obliterating enough terrain that I can just pop through once everything's evaporated. It generates way, way more acid than the acid rain spell... Been using it to melt my way through the holy mountains!
As an aside, if you have a method of killing the secret spider boss, do that... Last time I did, it dropped a pretty sick wand (something like 1000 regen, 3000 mana cap, 21 slots, no shuffle). Plus of course another health up.
The dragon wyrm didn't poop out nearly as much cool stuff, its wand was already lackluster compared to the things I'd picked up normally in the jungle.
Post by: Kagus on October 23, 2019, 11:59:12 am
Oh, I meant gunpowder arc.Ah yeah, that'll do it... Most of the arcs are pretty dangerous when you're using them straight up!
Anyways, lost a LOT of progress today... Was playing on the same save that'd crashed earlier, and while that save is a little odd (some terrain/items are like they were before I went into the sky, some thing are like they were after) and I seem to have lost a couple wands to save glitchiness, it's still a good seed and I've got a couple crazy wands.
So I kept going, exploring, trying stuff out... Ended up with even crazier wands (including a 25-slot wand that I filled out with about 14 damage+ shocking burning crit-on-burning homing mists), got explosion immunity on top of lightning immunity, learned that dormant crystals are capable of some serious homing and also are immune to acid (which means that if you have one with an acid trail, you can just place it and it will sit there forever constantly pumping out acid and melting the terrain underneath it), used my new immunity to put together a crazy lightning shotgun wand and learned that if you put a trail on lightning, it will apply quickly enough on a direct hit to count for critical calculations (I.E., water trail + crit on wet enemies let the lightning crit everything on the first blast, although that might have something to do with there being multiple bolts). Also I was using lightning to douse myself, which I found kinda funny.
Melted my way through the vault, was fiddling around in there for a while when suddenly... I fucked up bad. Hit the hotkey for what was usually my digging wand, but I'd swapped it out for the acid crystal. Got a faceful of green death.
And, uh... Turns out you can savescum! So I'm only about, ooh, 6 hours back... Instead of nearly 20.
EDIT: Oh, right, and there's a new update out now with new spells/enemies/stuff. Also apparently a new secret ending, I guess in case the moon wasn't enough? Jibbers.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 23, 2019, 02:49:18 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on October 23, 2019, 04:04:00 pm
New update also includes better-incorporated modding support, including a mod that randomizes your starting loadout based on various schools of magic.
Ooh, very neat. There's a modding page (linked to (https://modworkshop.net/mydownloads.php?action=browse_cat&cid=752&name=) in the patchnotes) with a nice array of mods array. Mostly nice.
Post by: Frumple on October 23, 2019, 04:31:42 pm
Post by: Soadreqm on October 23, 2019, 07:18:33 pm
The randomized start is pretty ace. Best I've seen so far is probably summoner, which has one wand that doesn't matter and a second wand with no spell components... and always cast summon rock. Football wizard agogo.I just got a "Fire Druid". Starts with oil blood and fire immunity. Wands have fireball and oil trail, and firebolt and always cast oil trail.
It's amazing.
Post by: Frumple on October 23, 2019, 08:05:10 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 23, 2019, 10:29:22 pm
In other news, I've found out lava (and liquids in general) react really friggin' weirdly to having rocks chucked into them. Drained most of the lava lake just by spamming rocks into the thing, and it even drained out pretty quick. Not thoroughly, but most of the lava just kinda' vanished.
Post by: Aoi on October 23, 2019, 10:45:26 pm
That's a weird way to spell opportunity. There's no bs in that, though there might be bees in this prospective doom wand. Incidentally, you could make wand that spawns bees. Big bees, little bees, clouds of bees, trails of bees, bees for days. If the game has a bee modifier I haven't seen it yet and the lack is sore. Sore like myriad bee stings. Noita needs bee projectiles and bee summons with great urgency.
I'm suddenly reminded of this bit from Don Hertzfelt... https://youtu.be/W7JyjZI3LUM?t=139
Edit: Graaaah... Fire Immunity, Explosion Immunity, Electric. Not a single combo that gets to really take advantage of them. (I mean, sure, being able to stand on a bomb doesn't hurt, but it's not like having Torch+Gunpowder Arc+Bouncy Balls all over the place.)
Post by: Kagus on October 24, 2019, 04:00:24 am
And by rock, do you mean a kicking boulder or the rock allies summoned by the spell? Because the rock allies do blow up into freezing liquid, and both booms and sudden gas production tend to mess with liquids...
Speaking of which, I need to empty the lake. Gonna slap a water-to-poison mod on a dormant crystal and just chuck it in.
And huh, that's an interesting quirk with the torch passive... Shame the passives are so rare, you'd think a torch would be at least slightly common!
EDIT: Also a shame that stuff like toxic/fire/even poison isn't really that effective against enemies, considering the number of creative ways they can be applied...
EDIT 2: Note to self: Never, ever, ever use tentacle spells against the giant corpse flies. The tentacle grabs and pulls in every flame that they shoot out.
Post by: Frumple on October 24, 2019, 06:36:34 am
Post by: Kagus on October 24, 2019, 08:04:01 am
When I say rock, I mean the non-minion boulders.Ahh, I got confused because the exploding minion rock spell is also just called "summon rock", and I'm pretty sure the mundane rock spell wasn't even in the game ('cept for beta) before this latest update. Definitely sounds beefy, and a lot more usable than the standard 3 charges on the spell!
So my super-long run just ended properly now... It would appear that savescumming has some strange effects, such as the world going back to how it was when you killed the process, and your character going back to however it was when you last saved. This meant that I ended up losing a bunch of wands and perks, since they were taken from the world and put on my character when I scummed... Which also meant that my dreams of the moon or other secrets were dashed, and I had to settle for just pissing around in the lava lake and then taking a standard victory.
Speaking of which, there's a new modifer that's been implemented... "Slimy explosion", it makes the projectile it's attached to cause an explosion whenever it hits an enemy that's covered in slime. Pretty neat.
...however, I'd recommend against putting it on a homing slime mist and using it against the boss. The game doesn't seem to like that very much.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Endgame stats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Iduno on October 24, 2019, 08:32:03 am
Incidentally, you could make wand that spawns bees. Big bees, little bees, clouds of bees, trails of bees, bees for days. If the game has a bee modifier I haven't seen it yet and the lack is sore. Sore like myriad bee stings. Noita needs bee projectiles and bee summons with great urgency. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeqkoTY61U0)
Also, is there a decent LP of this? I'm curious enough about the game that I want to see what's going on with it.
Post by: Frumple on October 24, 2019, 08:40:28 am
Post by: Kagus on October 24, 2019, 09:24:14 am
Post by: Man of Paper on October 25, 2019, 01:10:32 am
It's like if the tooth fairy existed, but instead of pillows it's rocks, and instead of teeth it's bodies.
Post by: Aoi on October 25, 2019, 02:17:53 am
It's like if the tooth fairy existed, but instead of pillows it's rocks, and instead of teeth it's bodies.
Maybe you're just getting the quarters for an entire head full of teeth at once?
I find I actually like the Slime start for some reason, even though Slime spells are some of the first things to go when I run out of space normally.
Post by: Kagus on October 25, 2019, 04:06:58 am
I think my next project is going to be trying to journey to the western lands, and see if they have an underworld there too. And if so, if that underworld happens to have holy mountains in it. Perks, son!
EDIT: And it would appear that my save got fucked somehow, so after lots of fiddling and a reinstall in order to let Steam even start the game, that screencap is the only proof I have of my second win.
...which I suppose is fine enough, considering it was scummed a couple times, but the first one wasn't even my fault... The game just crashed and I tried loading it up again, which it did.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 25, 2019, 05:53:47 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 25, 2019, 09:04:46 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 26, 2019, 05:48:30 am
Ghosts.
The fuckers added ghosts.
It remembers the last wand you were holding when you died.
Post by: Frumple on October 26, 2019, 06:19:21 am
...
Though if the game implements bonus damage to ghosts when they get hit by two or more beam-type projectiles at the same time, I'll have to give it some stealth meme credit. Cross the streams, cross the streams!
Post by: Aoi on October 26, 2019, 12:20:46 pm
Post by: Soadreqm on October 27, 2019, 04:38:51 pm
Post by: Farce on October 27, 2019, 09:33:58 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 28, 2019, 03:50:06 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 28, 2019, 05:24:18 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 28, 2019, 05:45:09 pm
Post by: Frumple on October 28, 2019, 05:59:27 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 29, 2019, 10:33:24 am
Post by: Frumple on October 29, 2019, 01:01:11 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 30, 2019, 08:15:39 am
Go through the mines, find a nice spammy bouncy wand, blast my way through, hit the first holy mountain, it's a wand shop, maybe they have something interesting? There's a fancy-looking one on sale for 90 gold, I'll go look at tha-...
...excuse me what the fuck?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...I couldn't. I just couldn't. That broke me. I got homing perk, a stacked nuke wand in the coal mines, second holy mountain offered melee immunity and vampirism, but I just... I couldn't. That damn wand.
Ended up basically throwing the run away because I couldn't get my head in the game after that absurdity. Committed a very entertaining suicide by launching a flaming nuke into a ravine, forgetting that it had homing, and watching it make a U-turn to swing back up and do three orbits of the jetpacker trying to tag me before it connected with his face. Ain't even mad.
EDIT: ...oh god, what have I done.
I just realized... I died holding the nuke wand.
Post by: Aoi on October 31, 2019, 10:19:45 pm
And one thing I really like about wand passives-- you can use it to get infinite casts of limited-use spells. My Easter Basket 'wand' that spewed infinite eggs was fun to play with, albeit entirely OP.
Post by: Kagus on November 01, 2019, 03:13:05 am
*Sigh*... I even had homing perk on that run. Would've been amazing.
Anyways, in other news, the beta has some funky stuff in it. Perk rerolling is incredible, but also means that the game becomes even more optimally drawn out and also makes perk lottery even better than it already was.
But rather than take good perks this run, I picked weird and unknown ones! They've added a kicking perk, and then there's Plague Rats... Which... Oh god, this perk.
Basically, every enemy killed will spawn 1-2 friendly rats that then go around attacking enemies for a while before they vanish into wisps of magical energy.
They're actually pretty damn robust for being rats, but you see... The problem is, I'm using a wand of explosive necromancy. So the enemy dies, rats are spawned, the rats and the homing projectile both attack the necro spawn, it dies, more rats (and gold!) spawn, the rat horde finds a new victim, rats spawn... Yeah.
It's hilarious as hell, but definitely not an A-rank perk.
Post by: Soadreqm on November 03, 2019, 04:41:51 pm
I was afraid the game would crash, so I ran away. I'm gonna make a copy of my savefile and see if I can get close enough to take a screenshot.
ED: It didn't crash! Fortunately, something seems to have polymorphed into a worm, which tunneled through the floor allowing the polymorphine to drain away.
I got a screenshot of the aftermath.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on November 07, 2019, 04:12:20 am
- Perk rerolling is now in stable, with all that that entails.
- New spells and perks
- Slime blood got improved, and now removes the speed penalty to being slimed
- "Wands have a new secret ability" I don't even know what this means
Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned much yet, but there's a new area designed to let you get back up to the surface from the bottom of the main dungeon. Entrance should be just off to the left of the temple of the art.
EDIT: Oh right, and there's a new "ending" of sorts... Bring the final piece of the work to the altar on top of the mountain, and just kinda jam it in there or something I dunno dude it's alchemy it don't gotta make sense.
Post by: Frumple on November 07, 2019, 08:05:59 am
Post by: Kagus on November 07, 2019, 08:11:20 am
But if your game happens to crash at that exact moment, you can load back into a world that's been completely blinged out...
Post by: beorn080 on November 07, 2019, 08:12:53 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on November 18, 2019, 02:34:44 pm
Post by: Frumple on November 29, 2019, 11:10:43 am
Also, anyone know when gold started healing you? Has that always been a thing? This run I've been getting a point heal per nugget picked up, which is doing some serious sustain in conjunction with disabled gold despawn, and I don't know if that's always been a thing and I just didn't notice, or it's new, or if one of my mods is doing something odd.
Post by: Kagus on November 29, 2019, 11:27:39 am
Not at my machine right now so can't check right now, but I'll have to have a look and see if the mad bastards actually implemented that officially.
Post by: Biowraith on November 29, 2019, 12:58:09 pm
Post by: Aoi on November 29, 2019, 01:01:13 pm
Post by: Frumple on November 29, 2019, 01:31:01 pm
Post by: Nighthawk on November 29, 2019, 08:19:32 pm
Just be aware it's a pretty huge mod and may not play nice with other mods.
Post by: Frumple on November 29, 2019, 08:58:47 pm
Haven't had any problem with mod incompatibility yet, tho', outside the kick-crash thing an update or two ago. Running that, spellbound, no gold despawn, expanded expanded starts, and a smattering of other things. Noita+ mostly for the changes to makes to the temples, though. Its world gen changes are more annoying than anything, unless something's borking up with it. Lots of extra dense walling and whatnot.
E: In other news, nightmare mode is, in fact, pretty nightmarish. Yikes.
E2: Mod improved lukki mutation is so much better. Rather than a shitty close range poke, it swaps your normal levitation for infinite, fast, flight so long as you're fairly close to a surface. Basically you move like the actual crap with legs like that in the game and it's pretty damn great.
Post by: MCreeper on May 10, 2020, 12:14:55 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on May 10, 2020, 12:33:18 pm
You can no longer drink infinite amounts of stuff....welp. Presumably this means Vampirism is nerfed to shit? I haven't played in a while...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Polymorphine be deadly.That, at least, I recognize :PSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: NJW2000 on May 10, 2020, 12:47:48 pm
Did one of those parallel world and NG+ mega-runs the other day. Didn't get Edit Wands Everywhere until digging through the cursed rock, which was a bit annoying... had to use dangerous amounts of chaotic polymorphine and face-tank a couple of nukes. Tried a few worm rain events too, got the HP up to over 2k, and the mines drenched in worm blood.
Ended the run in NG+ when the new update came out. Some insane new perks to try out. Feast hype!
Post by: MCreeper on May 10, 2020, 01:09:49 pm
I'm curious what those new "worm crystals" do. They are encased under the floor of areas between levels, destroying floor to get to them does not trigger guardian. "You feel less safe" message pops up on when you destroy one.
Post by: Kagus on May 10, 2020, 01:18:48 pm
I first learned about the crystals when a worm burrowed through the chamber so I could walk down into it and poke the crystal.
Post by: quinnr on May 11, 2020, 08:15:37 am
Also the lag gets pretty intense with fun wand combos!
Post by: Frumple on May 11, 2020, 08:47:13 am
A good wand makes a heck of a difference in how aggressive/quick you can be, though, yeah.
Post by: quinnr on May 11, 2020, 01:05:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on May 11, 2020, 01:13:38 pm
Post by: Micro102 on October 26, 2020, 01:28:39 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 28, 2020, 05:40:27 pm
Thus far I've had two wands which I ADORED.
#1, basically a hyper concentrated pneumatic air gun that shot like 10 compressed bursts of air at once--pretty much killed any enemy.
#2, a shotgun wand that just flooded the map every time I shot it--eventually this lead to me suffocating in an ocean of my own making.
Post by: Micro102 on October 28, 2020, 06:05:32 pm
Quote
eventually this lead to me suffocating in an ocean of my own making.
I managed to do that but also had the breathless and electricity perks, meaning everything on the screen just instantly died. Still ended up dying however, and I don't know why. I could not identify the source of damage and the death screen just said "killed by "" ", blank.
Post by: NJW2000 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:16 pm
Post by: Salmeuk on November 06, 2020, 06:37:57 pm
Yesterday I got to the perk room and found these waiting for me:
(https://i.imgur.com/bcRY8Oh.png)
More blood, oil blood, or slime blood. lol
Slime blood really is the best, though, as it reduces incoming projectile damage for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.
Post by: Inarius on November 07, 2020, 05:40:30 am
Post by: Frumple on November 07, 2020, 07:46:20 am
There should be more people talking about Noita! Wonderful, if frustrating, gameplay.Slime blood probably functions like liquid armor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_Armor) or somethin'. Just inside you. More cushion so you get pushed instead of punctured. It's viscous and slows stuff down, harder to shoot through than blood.
Yesterday I got to the perk room and found these waiting for me:
(https://i.imgur.com/bcRY8Oh.png)
More blood, oil blood, or slime blood. lol
Slime blood really is the best, though, as it reduces incoming projectile damage for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.
Post by: beorn080 on November 09, 2020, 10:42:31 am
Post by: Micro102 on November 10, 2020, 07:00:09 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on November 10, 2020, 08:10:24 pm
Post by: Micro102 on November 11, 2020, 12:28:11 am
Did they patch this out because the internet is telling me that should work.
Now it works. no idea why.
Post by: Micro102 on November 11, 2020, 01:07:07 am
EDIT: instantly killing the boss is fun.
Post by: Kagus on November 11, 2020, 06:34:01 am
Slime mist projectile + explodes on slimed = "Oh fuck, I killed the game"
It's been a while since I played Noita, I wonder if the "proper" loop is still as annoying and frustrating as it used to be.
Post by: Frumple on November 11, 2020, 07:08:37 am
Post by: Kagus on November 12, 2020, 01:58:00 pm
I actually got pretty far up the sky dungeon one time, but it still had the memory issue at the time so the game just crashed and died miserably
Post by: Frumple on November 12, 2020, 03:13:01 pm
That said, you don't need to do any of that for a straightforward zero-orb boss kill. If you want to just go straight down and kill a foo you're more than able.
Post by: Micro102 on November 12, 2020, 03:58:03 pm
Post by: beorn080 on November 12, 2020, 05:01:57 pm
Post by: Frumple on November 12, 2020, 06:08:22 pm
Now, 11 or 30+ orb boss and you're going to need (or at least very, very want) the big guns, and probably several perk collecting runs. Takes forever otherwise, heh, and it's not like the thing's a complete pushover regardless so long as you don't insta-pop it.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 13, 2020, 12:20:16 pm
Post by: Micro102 on November 13, 2020, 12:20:39 pm
The final boss is somewhat dependent on what you do during the run. If you rush straight down to it, no deviations from the straight down path, its very weak. The boss to the right is deliberately absurd from what I understand. In terms of final boss health, you need to go well out of your way to max out the bosss health and if you've gone that far out of your way you should have access to the resources to still kill it.
O, that's very interesting.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 13, 2020, 12:22:46 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 13, 2020, 12:45:18 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 13, 2020, 04:50:46 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 13, 2020, 05:05:29 pm
The base is an area where one misstep can literally end you if you're not well prepared so I don't think that makes you bad, just inexperienced. I've seen supposed experts at the game get annihilated there
Thanks, I try to take things slow but the corridors slay me. Do you peeps hunt for more health btw???
Post by: NJW2000 on November 13, 2020, 06:16:42 pm
Post by: Micro102 on November 16, 2020, 09:13:06 am
Post by: NJW2000 on November 16, 2020, 10:49:43 am
I'm not sure what the mechanics are: I didn't want to get too close to anything that can polymorph you. Perhaps it can only be damaged at certain points.
Your chainsaws might have been doing too little damage per hit; I'm not sure how damage resistance is calculated.
Post by: Blue_Dwarf on November 17, 2020, 07:49:37 am
"You have angered the gods"
What the... Apparently some kind of robot from the base level and a giant spider somehow broke through the ceiling where you enter the mountain...
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 17, 2020, 08:56:58 am
Finally got the hang of the game, had a pretty good run with Invisibility perk. Skipped the entire snow level and the base, beat the jungle level pretty easily. Was shopping for wands in the mountain, there was a neat wand full of healing spells on sale.Yeah that happens, now you get to fight steve the bone man. In every temple.
"You have angered the gods"
What the... Apparently some kind of robot from the base level and a giant spider somehow broke through the ceiling where you enter the mountain...
Post by: lemon10 on November 17, 2020, 06:28:51 pm
Finally got the hang of the game, had a pretty good run with Invisibility perk. Skipped the entire snow level and the base, beat the jungle level pretty easily. Was shopping for wands in the mountain, there was a neat wand full of healing spells on sale.My info is ~a year out of date, but *apparently* the chance of say, a worm busting through into the temple depends on how long you take.
"You have angered the gods"
What the... Apparently some kind of robot from the base level and a giant spider somehow broke through the ceiling where you enter the mountain...
So say... if you are invisible the whole level and just rush through it in record time without fighting anyone then the chances of every temple ever turning into a horrid death zone goes way up
Post by: Frumple on November 17, 2020, 06:40:30 pm
Somewhere in the last while they implemented a mechanic to prevent worms from chewing up the temple. There's ways it can get disabled, but they're staggeringly unlikely to happen without direct player intervention.
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2020, 04:47:44 pm
Worms basically can't bust up the temple anymore, yeah, least without something else giving them a hand :P
Somewhere in the last while they implemented a mechanic to prevent worms from chewing up the temple. There's ways it can get disabled, but they're staggeringly unlikely to happen without direct player intervention.
You mean the worm crystals actually work now?
Because the very first game I played after they were implemented, I got to learn about worm crystals by dropping down the worm shaft that was dug straight through the crystal chamber... By a wild worm :P
Post by: Frumple on November 22, 2020, 04:51:44 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on November 22, 2020, 06:28:14 pm
It's more the ground-digging spiders in the underground jungle that are the problem, I find.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 23, 2020, 12:37:11 am
Post by: Micro102 on November 23, 2020, 01:36:36 am
Without explosion immunity it feels like I'm a dice roll away from losing everything, and all the DOT waiting to leech my health is a slow killer that's best avoided.
Post by: Salmeuk on November 23, 2020, 02:51:48 am
Anyone else feel like the optimal way to play the game after getting a good wand is to blow up every explosive from a distance and wait a full minute as all the toxins, fire, and freezing gas dissipates? Then move a screen over and do it again?
Without explosion immunity it feels like I'm a dice roll away from losing everything, and all the DOT waiting to leech my health is a slow killer that's best avoided.
eh it's difficulty is true to the roguelike nature of the game. while your strategy may be optimal, it isn't very fun - I suggest diving quickly and just learning how to 'skip' enemies. I was afraid of explosions but now they are just another hazard. Just keep in mind potential enemy spawns for your level, and explosive boxes aren't to be feared. Hisii base can be challenging for sure, but it's also the gimmick of the level so eh.
Post by: Inarius on November 23, 2020, 11:22:52 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 23, 2020, 12:44:41 pm
I find the 3rd level very hard, you can say there is a slight progression between mines part I and II, but ice caves...well, i'm still a beginner but i still have a hard time there.
Mines > Coal uh Veins is pretty easy > Snowy Depths is fairly hard with snipers and the addition of huge open spaces that have lots of slow, but maneuverable enemies > Hiisi Base is a big leap if you haven't gotten lucky/spent time tooling up, upgrading, and getting swole. > The Fungal-y Place is yikes, I died instantly with tons of health and a great wand.
Post by: Aoi on November 23, 2020, 03:18:38 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on November 23, 2020, 05:42:16 pm
Post by: Aoi on November 24, 2020, 04:40:15 pm
That sounds broken... I know there are oddities with perk reroll when you start going on extremely long runs, and getting more perks via [SPOILERS]
Yep, it was totally broken; file verification didn't seem to work, but an uninstall/reinstall did the trick! My temple still had the old design to it, despite claims of being fully updated, which ended up being a huge tip-off in retrospect.
Now to die repeatedly to facepalm-worthy deaths: "Oooh, I can have a rapid-fire bouncing laserbeam with this combo. Lets test-fire this right through a reflect barrier.
Post by: Frumple on November 26, 2020, 09:15:20 am
Post by: ThtblovesDF on November 30, 2020, 04:12:09 am
It feels like hp doesn't matter, you are either dead or not, with most things insta-gibbing me beyond layer 3.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 30, 2020, 04:14:11 am
Post by: Kagus on November 30, 2020, 07:03:21 am
Is it still kinda ludicrous in that you have to consume an ocean of blood to regain 3 hp?
Is it still the thing that I would absolutely be taking anyway, and just making sure to carve up my enemies with chainsaws to flood the world in sweet, sweet crimson?
Post by: Micro102 on December 09, 2020, 09:57:01 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on December 10, 2020, 12:12:47 am
Post by: Micro102 on December 11, 2020, 07:11:21 pm
Its immune to acid...
Post by: Micro102 on December 12, 2020, 05:59:36 pm
Post by: Micro102 on December 12, 2020, 08:02:37 pm
Quote
Did you switch off to a different wand between casts
This seems huge! I've been wondering about a way to put 4 black holes on a wand and have them all make use of the speed-up shot modifier.
Post by: NJW2000 on December 12, 2020, 08:07:14 pm
Post by: Micro102 on December 15, 2020, 06:40:11 pm
Post by: Micro102 on December 19, 2020, 04:35:11 pm
Post by: Kagus on December 19, 2020, 04:39:41 pm
Wiggle like your life depends on it.
Because it does.
Post by: Micro102 on December 19, 2020, 05:31:19 pm
This is why single pixels shouldn't exist. I don't get why they didn't get rid of them with a patch. It's like, the worst feature of the game.
Post by: Aoi on December 19, 2020, 09:29:15 pm
Post by: heydude6 on January 15, 2021, 12:58:35 pm
Snowy depths becomes a lot easier when you can lob what are essentially mortar shells from behind cover. It also helps that they one-shot most enemies.
In the next holy mountain, I bought a wand with a bunch of glowing lances (think spark bolt, but deals 30 damage and can shoot through walls and enemies). I attached a faster projectile speed modifier, plus 10 damage, and a double cast and I was just dominating the Hisi base. It was my first time not getting completely destroyed there.
I would just shoot through the metal walls (thank you glowing lance) and the Hisi couldn't fire back at me. When the enemy actually did have sightlines, they were usually lined up in one of the cramped hallways so I would just annihilate them all with a single penetrating shot.
I didn't make it to the jungle though.
Anyone else feel like the optimal way to play the game after getting a good wand is to blow up every explosive from a distance and wait a full minute as all the toxins, fire, and freezing gas dissipates? Then move a screen over and do it again?
Without explosion immunity it feels like I'm a dice roll away from losing everything, and all the DOT waiting to leech my health is a slow killer that's best avoided.
Follow this advice my friend! A Hisi shot one of the explosive frost canisters littered around the base while I was next to it and by the time I escaped the cloud I had only 2 health left. I killed that bastard and his friends, but the run was over at that point. Eventually a stray bullet got me.
What I learned from this experience was how useful indirect fire is. It's not too important in the first 2 levels since enemies are either melee or slow to react, but turrets, snipers, and revolver dudes are enemies that are bound to give you chip damage if you end up face to face with them.
Post by: Aoi on January 15, 2021, 04:40:23 pm
A few well-placed Circles of Water can almost entirely neutralize the threats in a given layer, provided you can deal with the massive quantity of water. A lot of things will drown, projectiles are greatly diminished, and allows for easy vertical movement. All-you-can-use mana, if you find a flask of concentrated mana. And if you get lucky and can combo it with other spells and perks...
Post by: Aoi on January 18, 2021, 05:35:15 am
But how on earth does the Construction Worker work?
It's a class that starts with the High Gravity perk, (Luminous Drill with Timer+Chunk of Soil), and (Digging Bolt). At a glance, it seems like the idea is to encase things in dirt, then drill into them while they're stuck, but that doesn't work since the dirt is loose and, generally speaking, will fall to the ground under whatever you're fighting.
Post by: NJW2000 on January 18, 2021, 07:14:09 am
Not sure what the high gravity perk is for. Does the dirt fall faster?
Post by: Micro102 on January 18, 2021, 01:38:47 pm
I also am not sure what the creator had in mind for "heavy gravity".
Post by: heydude6 on January 20, 2021, 03:41:12 pm
As for advice on how to play it, I think the intention is to explore the level to find a more traditional combat wand (or the emerald tablet), and then use the dirt conjuring and digging to compliment that offense. It seems like conjuring dirt piles to block off hallways would be a godsend in Hissi base.
Post by: Aoi on January 20, 2021, 05:55:54 pm
So, having downloaded the mod myself (great mod btw. Starting with a creative loadout makes the early game a lot less dull), I think I have figured out why the construction worker has the heavy gravity perk. According to statements by the creator, when a loadout is created, the perk comes first and the rest of the class is built around it. When the guy was making a class for the heavy gravity perk, I think he just decided to make it construction themed because of it's association with tall buildings and falling hazards (not that there's fall damage in this game).
I think one of the early versions of Noita had a similar thing built in as an example mod, which is why I immediately jumped on the full-fledged one that was made after... trying to get 'weak' builds off the ground taught me some interesting tricks. (Latest discovery? Burst of air's interaction with fire.)
Working backwards from the perk explains a lot, and kind of forces a bit of variety... though I suppose that makes some, like the construction worker, feel forced.
It's also a pretty good framework for making your own starting loadouts with a minimum of fuss since the file structure's already built up. One of my favorite homebrew setups is starting with Tinker Anywhere, a wand with very strong specs, and three no-cast toolboxes filled with 100% random spells... and the self-imposed restriction that you can only use the spells you started with for the entire run.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 23, 2021, 04:01:21 am
Kind of blew up the boss in The Laboratory with one solid hit. Was my first run good enough to get there, and I didn't have any orbs on me so it was probably the weakest version. But still. The fight was kind of anticlimactic after all the fanfare with the lavafalls and everything. :P
Post by: heydude6 on January 23, 2021, 12:05:28 pm
plasma cutters
Did you mean "Luminous Drill" or is there actually a spell called "Plasma cutter"? If the former, then I'm surprised your method worked since drill's don't do that much damage individually. Their DPS is reliant on their negative modifiers to cast delay and recharge time, allowing them to be cast very rapidly like your typical machinegun wand. I would have expected a hollow egg with quad drills to simply deal 40 damage and disappear.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 23, 2021, 12:35:52 pm
They're normally DOT, they are listed as dealing 20 damage, and you can burn yourself quite a bit if you hit yourself with one. Apparently something in the way they work means that four of them spawning inside the target immediately deals enough damage to pulverize a Stevari or the no-orb version of the final boss.
Post by: heydude6 on February 01, 2021, 05:55:48 pm
I got this wand, with 7 slots in it. I gave it this loadout:
Electric arc -> Add mana -> triple-scatter-> Triplicate bolt -> Triplicate bolt
And as a result I got this devastating boom-stick that shredded everything. Electric arc is no joke!
I completely destroyed the ice caves with this wand alongside the help of a rapid-fire spark-bolt wand for distant targets.
I ended up looting a wand with a +Damage modifier (great for the boomstick). And in a shop, I found a "Library wand" filled with a bunch of random and awesome spells. Stuff like homing projectiles, concentrated light etc.
Point is, I had a lot of tools to experiment with. I was testing wand combos in the holy mountain for at least 10 minutes and I had so many spells that I had to throw some on the floor. I accidentally throw one of my spells into the fish tank, so I dive in to grab it.
ZAP!
I died from electrocution! It turns out that if your wand has an electricity spell, it acts like a thunderstone and electrocutes the water your in! All that experimentation and I never even got to test the wand out in the field.
Post by: Frumple on February 01, 2021, 06:08:48 pm
Post by: Supercharazad on February 01, 2021, 07:16:10 pm
Post by: heydude6 on February 01, 2021, 08:01:42 pm
orbiting nukes.
Dear God! I didn't know there was a spell modifier that created nukes!
Post by: Aoi on February 01, 2021, 08:58:39 pm
orbiting nukes.Dear God! I didn't know there was a spell modifier that created nukes!
I'm pretty sure that 'Nuke' is actually a vanilla spell. The icon looks like a little missile and has... 1? use. For obvious reasons, don't use it without Explosion Immunity.
Post by: Egan_BW on February 01, 2021, 09:10:52 pm
Post by: heydude6 on February 01, 2021, 11:10:36 pm
orbiting nukes.Dear God! I didn't know there was a spell modifier that created nukes!
I'm pretty sure that 'Nuke' is actually a vanilla spell. The icon looks like a little missile and has... 1? use. For obvious reasons, don't use it without Explosion Immunity.
I know 'Nuke' is a vanilla spell. I even used it once...
...
It's just that from what I understand, Naxza had a modded shuffle wand that applied a random modifier every time a spell was cast. I assume it only took from the pool of modifiers, but vanilla nuke is a projectile. There would have to be some sort of nuke-like modifier and I'm not sure if that is vanilla.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 02, 2021, 12:34:20 am
https://noita.gamepedia.com/Spells_To_Nukes
Post by: heydude6 on February 02, 2021, 01:01:31 am
What that spell does is something like this:
First you fire off a bunch of projectiles from a regular wand. Let's say bubble sparks. They linger in the air. Next you cast this spell separately by either switching to another wand with "Spells to Nukes" or because "Spells to Nukes" was the next spell in your wand's queue. Upon doing this, every projectile within range is abruptly transformed into a nuke. Fallout 5 Ensues.
Assuming Naxza didn't mispeak-
In modding-land, I got a wackier shuffle wand (applies any random spell modifier to projectiles and de-shuffles them) and subsequently turned my sawblade-headed triplicate bolts into green death harbingers delivering orbiting nukes.
I did not survive this discovery.
-"Spell's to nukes" is not the spell involved in this situation since the post implies that a spell modifier was the culprit, of which "Spells to nukes" is not.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on March 01, 2021, 02:13:03 am
Literally the only success is when I randomly find a wand that one-shots them before they cheese me back, and even so survival is barely possible.
Post by: Sime on March 01, 2021, 04:39:04 am
Post by: Aoi on March 01, 2021, 05:39:03 am
Post by: MrRoboto75 on March 01, 2021, 10:57:51 am
And the enemy density gets to the point that you basically cannot avoid fights. And avoiding fights means you have no money.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 01, 2021, 10:59:34 am
Compared to the Fungal Caverns (the loot-rich area on the left of the second floor), the third floor is easy. Annoying enemies are aplenty, but they still die in a few solid hits as usual, and those that don't require hiding and maneuvering. Plus there's hardly any rock, you can dig with abandon, and there's very few environmental hazards to watch out for besides explosives.
At that point you've been through two holy mountains, and an area rich in both gold and loot. If you don't have spells and/or items that let you manage enemies, it's your own lookout.
The game's a roguelike, you're not going to speedrun your way down unless you really know what you're doing. The third floor only "spikes" in difficulty if you've been avoiding the difficulty on the previous floors. If you're taking your time and preparing properly by scouring the previous floors for good wands and items, it's a much smoother progression.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on March 01, 2021, 12:08:46 pm
I'll add to the "what difficulty spike" notion.
Compared to the Fungal Caverns (the loot-rich area on the left of the second floor), the third floor is easy. Annoying enemies are aplenty, but they still die in a few solid hits as usual, and those that don't require hiding and maneuvering. Plus there's hardly any rock, you can dig with abandon, and there's very few environmental hazards to watch out for besides explosives.
At that point you've been through two holy mountains, and an area rich in both gold and loot. If you don't have spells and/or items that let you manage enemies, it's your own lookout.
The game's a roguelike, you're not going to speedrun your way down unless you really know what you're doing. The third floor only "spikes" in difficulty if you've been avoiding the difficulty on the previous floors. If you're taking your time and preparing properly by scouring the previous floors for good wands and items, it's a much smoother progression.
There's no difficulty to avoid in the early levels because, guess what, you can fucking dodge and avoid taking damage.
What you're telling me is skill barely matters as you gamble on loot actually being useful for once (it usually, usually isn't at all, most wands are borderline useless without beating the level and changing them). If you don't get something broken by level two you may as well reset until you do. Which isn't up to you at all.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 01, 2021, 02:11:19 pm
Level three does seem to stand out to players that have been playing for certain amount of time, but haven't gotten really confident with the game yet. I think that's to do with the specific thing it tests, although I'm not sure I can put into words what that is.
Post by: Kagus on March 01, 2021, 05:29:10 pm
Then I'd make my way to the ice caverns and, if I'd had some decent luck with perks, I'd head to the right and make the climb up the cliff face to that secret area. The gap between that and the lava lake, and the one between the shores of the lava lake, are just close enough that a carefully controlled hop can clear it.
With my perks and hopefully a lucky wand or two, I could start thoroughly scouring each level on the way back down, and making use of the health and recharge bonuses I'd left behind earlier (if necessary). If I had some really good kit (including some mobility stuff), I might even head out of the cave and over to the pyramid for some cash and potentially a neat wand or two that I could cannibalize back in the holy mountains.
With any luck, I'd have some form of digging that could get me through the holy mountain walls by this point, so I'd do that and carefully piece my way downwards while being able to backtrack and either grab heals or just fiddle with my wands a bit.
That was my standard routine for most runs, which was really sad because while it was highly effective it was also torturously slow and tedious.
Post by: Frumple on March 01, 2021, 07:13:44 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on March 01, 2021, 07:30:15 pm
... wait, people actually have trouble dodging the ~porno grind~ critters shots? Usually you just go up or down or duck behind something solid, though? The explosives or the bots have been what killed me in that region, iirc. The guns are mostly pretty predictable...
In my experience, they shoot the very second they have line of fire on you. They don't have to be visible on screen to do this. Outside of the sniper rifles there's no wind up animation, its just bang. And once the bullet's in the air you're not moving far enough soon enough to be out of the way. And if you're airborne you've also been stunned, so that's another hit. There doesn't seem to be anything to realistically do other than just outright not be there. But you have to be there because there's no where else to go.
Either I get a wand capable of shooting around corners, or peeking for practically a single frame and firing past the side of the screen. Or inevitably face tanking and losing because you cannot spend health willy-nilly.
Post by: Frumple on March 01, 2021, 08:23:24 pm
If they're far enough away you can't already see them (and thus pretty easily predict where the shot's going to come from and when, or just kill them before they can shoot with bouncy shots or whatever), they're far enough away bullet transit time lets you react, basically. Usually. Least they have been for me, and I'm not exactly some kind of reflex god or somethin', ha.
Post by: Frumple on March 06, 2021, 10:30:28 am
you can also just cheat. Give yourself some extra health, more perks, slow the game down when you're in a region that's giving you trouble, etc.
Noita's still plenty fun when you're doing stuff the game would rather you not be doing, heh.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2021, 01:20:30 pm
Post by: heydude6 on March 07, 2021, 06:19:07 pm
Spoiler: Starter pack to wand building (click to show/hide)
There is so much to this game, and as you play you will discover new tools you can use as well as new ways to make use of existing ones (You can do some truly evil stuff with teleport bolts). Noita is ultimately a game about knowledge, and how far you will consistently go is dependent on how much you know. It's like nethack in that regard. The game is full of all these weird and interesting tricks that completely change the way you play it once they're discovered (Did you know pheromone flasks are amazing in Hisii base?)
As you learn more, you discover new things and find out that the objective of beating all 7 floors and the final boss is only just the tip of the massive iceberg hidden inside this game.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 08, 2021, 04:43:59 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 08, 2021, 08:48:32 am
Post by: Aoi on March 10, 2021, 06:01:33 pm
Tight quarters, explosions, electricity+a lot of metal, freezing gas, stronger enemies, difficult to dig terrain... They all stack together in 4, whereas you were presented with (some of) them alone in earlier areas.
In 5, you're back to semi-open areas, but you're now up against stuff with mid-high mobility with vastly higher damage capabilities and absorption that, unless you have a wand stronger than if typical for a straight-down run, you can't just power through.
Post by: heydude6 on March 10, 2021, 07:05:20 pm
That's another tip I wanted to share. Don't be afraid to use your consumable spells. If you see a beefy enemy, don't be afraid to shoot a magic missile or firebolt at it. Usually you get enough uses to find the exit before you run out.
Post by: Toady One on March 12, 2021, 01:54:19 am
Post by: Damiac on March 22, 2021, 03:44:40 pm
I've played a lot more, and even got a legit win. Had a nice rapid fire wand with concentrated spells perk, that set me for damage. Freeze shot makes the game 75 percent easier, kinda op really...
Won with 3 orbs, mountain, pyramid, and lava lake shrine
Now, I have a bit of a complaint here. Whenever I start a new game, I must decide "do I value 15 minutes of my time or +50 health for my character more?"
You can get the mountain orb with almost any start, same with pyramid. Lava lake one isn't so bad but it's still a short hike.
I wish I didn't have the option to trade tedium for more hp, from an "optimal play" point of view I'm crazy not to. From a "I play games for fun" point of view I'm crazy to do it.
But if I don't do it, then lose a run where that 50 hp could have made the difference, did I waste all that time?
Players like me will optimise all the fun out of a game given the chance, so hopefully they make that situation better somehow.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 22, 2021, 03:48:49 pm
Post by: heydude6 on March 22, 2021, 04:50:19 pm
Now that you've won though, you can now start downloading mods without worrying about them messing with your achievements. I'm sure someone has made a mod that makes you start with those 3 orbs automatically so you can kiss that tedium goodbye. I do wish the devs did something about the tedium themselves though. I mean the game already has meta-progression with the unlocking of spells with orbs, so would it really kill them to spawn a fast-travel portal to the pyramid on top of the mountain temple once you collected both orbs for the first time?
Post by: Fowler on March 23, 2021, 12:59:50 am
I usually avoid getting any orbs, unless I am going for some specific orb-related run, as they just make the boss harder.
In what cases, if not a secret? The game itself is still a beginner
Post by: Damiac on March 23, 2021, 06:50:49 am
There are mods to start with extra health, which is almost the same thing...
Anyway, I started a new run, on level 1 I found a wand with 4 or 5 chainsaws. Had a nice rapid fire sparkbolt for level 2, found a mess of luminous drills and a wand with autocast ping pong shot.
I picked up the edit wands anywhere perk, and had a nice long range lightsaber hose.
On level 3 I found 2 reduce mana, a rapid shot, and another ping pong shot.
Now I have a full auto laser hose that goes across the screen.
I destroy much of the gold enemies drop, although only a crumb needs to exist to get the nugget.
So I have a good digging wand, 350 hp or so, ambrosia, and teleport bolt. think I mgoing to head over to a parallel world and get some more perks and health.
I have no healing spells, but I do have a refill waiting at the bottom of the jungle.
Any advice? I haven't ventured far off the main path yet, so I'm not sure what to look out for.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 23, 2021, 06:51:06 am
There are things that happen in certain circumstances with specific numbers of orbs collected, I won't get into spoilers here.I usually avoid getting any orbs, unless I am going for some specific orb-related run, as they just make the boss harder.
In what cases, if not a secret? The game itself is still a beginner
Post by: Damiac on March 23, 2021, 04:30:39 pm
I usually avoid getting any orbs, unless I am going for some specific orb-related run, as they just make the boss harder.Yeah there's a trade off, but the boss is still pretty darn easy with 3 orbs. 75 extra health at the start of the coal mines is almost double your normal health for the low price of 20 minutes of your time.
The boss gets 8x health, but in my experience that's still less than a second of dps. His health with 0 orbs is shockingly low.
Post by: heydude6 on March 23, 2021, 05:48:29 pm
I'm sure there are some debug tools that simply allow you to spawn orbs.
Post by: Frumple on March 23, 2021, 06:41:42 pm
Post by: Damiac on March 24, 2021, 08:22:44 am
The 75 extra health doesn't kick in until you reach the first holy mountain. The heart containers are empty. It's up to you to fill them up. That's why I was hoping for a mod that spawned you with the orbs rather than a mod that simply gave you extra health, cause starting with an extra 75 health gives you an unfair advantage in the mines.This is true, I did see a mod that just spawns 3 +50HP hearts at the start of the game, so you'd still have to fill them, but your orb count wouldn't go up, and you could still collect the orbs. It's pretty close, admittedly.
I'm sure there are some debug tools that simply allow you to spawn orbs.
So I used my laser hose to dig around, and fought the alchemist boss. I cheesed the hell out of him by drilling up from underneath and shooting him through the little slots I dug. It seems his reflective shield doesn't keep the trigger part of the spell, so even when one or two came back at me, I only took 8 damage instead of a couple hundred. Still, I had more success with a triggered lightning bolt than my machine gun wand. Got the alpha spell from him, so I now have unlimited uses of any spell, as alpha will happily copy a spell with 0 charges and cast it for 30 mana. Still no healing spells found.
Kept going west until I hit the border wall. My laser hose made short work of the wall, although it would have been faster to use black holes. I wasn't used to infinite black holes yet. A quick spritz with ambrosia and several teleports later, I was on the other side with full health. I really expected it to be harder somehow. I highly recommend heading to the parallel worlds the moment you assemble a toolkit. Ambrosia, digging method, and teleport are the safe way. Teleport is good to have anyway because otherwise it's a long hike. Just pouring ambrosia at my feet took about 7% of the bottle to stain me, and if you dug a little pit you could probably do it with less. Either way, a bottle of ambrosia will go far if you use it that way.
I used my ambrosia to collect several corrupted orbs. +50HP each, ambrosia blocks the crazy poison it gives you. Then I just dove down the mountain, got a +50% health perk, now I've got 1100 health. Collected a nice storage wand with 26 slots, I'm so glad I took the tinker anywhere perk. I got oil blood, finally got fire immunity. Found two freezing charges, although I'm not sure it's worth using anymore, enemies who can be frozen tend to die real quick anyway, and those piles of snow everywhere get annoying...
Accidentally went through the portal at the bottom of west vaults, oh well, might as well finish the main dungeon and kill the boss before I collect any more orbs. I've got 11 now, much more than I meant to fight the boss with.
It was time to end it for the night, but I was curious so I made a backup and tried the boss with the wands I had on hand. It was slowgoing, but if I could bring my machine gun wand to bear his health dropped at an OK rate. I realized I should have drilled a loop to kite the boss through, it sucks getting cornered by him and having to run past, took a good amount of damage that way. I had him down to about 3/5 health when he hit me with a polymorph orb at point blank range and my own machinegun did the rest. I guess saving grace and extra life do nothing when polymorphed? Kind of stupid...
So... clearly going to have to build a more damaging wand. The boss's shots go through the wall, so I couldn't cheese him like I did to the alchemist (although maybe his polymorph shots would still get blocked?). With 1100 health I could afford to take a lot of hits, but I couldn't just tank his shots, I'd go down first. I have a single heavy shot which is attached to the payload on my spitter bolt with trigger machinegun, so I'm doing around 60 damage per frame, for 3600 DPS. That's been more than enough elsewhere, but clearly I need to step it up.
I suppose a fast path to more DPS would be to swap out the spitter orb payload for a triple shot, tripling the heavy shot damage. However if I do that I won't be able to fire continuously, although that's probably fine. What I really need is a fast wand with a lot of slots. So I should probably try out the tower, and maybe I'll pick up some good spells.
Post by: Kagus on March 24, 2021, 02:02:21 pm
Post by: Damiac on March 25, 2021, 08:29:30 am
This may have upped my dps a little but it was still a slog.
I'm not sure why, but this time the boss chased me back to the laboratory/temple, then just hung out there shooting at me from max range. Can he not destroy brickwork? That made the fight just a matter of patience. Carved a little niche to jam myself into so i could keep my wand on the boss despite the recoil. That made his life bar drop a lot faster. All he could do is shoot his bullet hell bullets around (these also seemed not to go through the brickwork, which is different from what I saw the first time) and occasionally shoot his slow polymorph orbs, which are easy to dodge when you're not frantically dodging a bunch of other stuff at the same time.
11 orb boss had 151000 hp, while I seemed to manage about 1.5k dps when I could keep him in my crosshairs. I know he has big damage reduction against most things, not sure if chainsaws are included in that.
After that I went to the tower. Due to foolishness around cursed rock I was down to 42 health when I reached the top. Grabbed the wand of swiftness and GTFO'd.
The wand of swiftness was a decent upgrade, mostly due to additional slots over my old wand. I was able to add more to my triggered shot, so now it shoots 5 projectiles with heavy shot and damage + applied. On the statues I get around 10000 dps, but that's with most of the triggered spells bouncing off, so I suspect my true dps is much higher.
Picked up the homing perk, not sure if that was a great move. Nice for some stuff but having my black holes chase after enemies instead of digging where I want can suck. Oh well, the luminous drill doesn't curve much so I still have that if I need to dig around enemies, although I'm beginning to wonder if i've outgrown my laser hose. It is nice for killing enemies on the other side of obstacles, but it makes a mess of the level and destroys much of the gold.
I visited a couple more parallel worlds after that, just diving down for perks. Once you can do that the game is well and truly broken. I have over 5k hps, 2x faster movement, 3x critical +, immunity to electricity, fire, and explosions, perk lottery and extra perk so I get multiples sometimes, at this point I'm just winning more. If I do another parallel world odds are I'll come out with 15000 hp or so, given the frequency of HP+ perks i've been seeing. I mostly just ignore enemy fire at this point.
Oh, and I found healing bolt so I've got infinite healing, albeit rather slow. I don't bother with ambrosia for the cursed rock, I can just tank the 500 damage or so from walking across and fill it up at the first temple.
It's funny how absurdly powerful you can end up and I know I'm barely scratching the surface with my dps. I'm not exactly sure what I am building toward at this point though...
I guess I should take on the various bonus bosses, and just focus on unlocking everything since I can't go NG+
Unfortunately, I have collected 14 orbs, not realizing more than 11 locks you out of ng+.
Post by: Aoi on March 25, 2021, 09:38:28 am
My best damage dealer ever (sort of) was on a quadfire laserhose... with always-cast acid trail. I grabbed the perk at the final Holy Temple, looked at the spell it gave me... paused, shrugged, and fired it straight down into the boss. It pretty much vaporized, and my save file corrupted itself when it crashed. ::)
Post by: Damiac on March 25, 2021, 12:12:27 pm
Aren't chainsaws actually pretty low in damage, despite how they look?Well, chainsaws do "Slice" damage which supposedly does full damage to the boss, where he has 0.2x projectile damage, so the 14 damage the chainsaw does is better than an 60 damage "projectile damage" spell. But yeah, chainsaws are not terribly damaging on their own.
My best damage dealer ever (sort of) was on a quadfire laserhose... with always-cast acid trail. I grabbed the perk at the final Holy Temple, looked at the spell it gave me... paused, shrugged, and fired it straight down into the boss. It pretty much vaporized, and my save file corrupted itself when it crashed. ::)
Although to be honest, when heavy shot adds 44 damage, the base damage just doesn't mean that much. It's better to stack more cheap spells than to have a few big hitters when you're adding 44 to each one. Of course if you can have the same amount of spells, more damage is better. But in my experience you're always trying to keep mana cost low, so you don't need as many +mana mods, and therefore have more open slots for more spells.
There's another complication though, when it comes to multi-projectile spells. Triple shot costs 25 mana, but you get 3 projectiles, so they're only 8.33 mana a piece, and you save 2 slots. Infestation gives 6 projectiles according to the wiki, for 40 mana, so 6.66 mana per projectile and you save 5 slots. However infestation can damage you, so at the very least you'd have to be a lot more careful about firing the wand.
That's basically the current state of my wand sciencing, which is pretty basic compared to some of the stuff I've seen but don't really get, like accelerating shot making some projectiles much more damaging. I won't be one shotting any 33 orb bosses with this approach though, since I'm limited to a geometric progression of damage and 26 slots is the max.
I did find a spells to mana modifier though, I know that's another one of the ways to deal absurd damage.
Post by: Damiac on July 08, 2021, 11:02:10 am
So after dying a lot of times, once even in the temple of the art, I have a god run going, with all the important ingredients in place except tinker with wands everywhere, which would be nice...
Early on, I got some chainsaws and triple shot, and a high regen wand, so I have a fairly rapid fire shotgun.
The perks were great, Corpse explosion(immunity to explosions), immune to fire, immune to melee, immune to lightning, no more shuffle(lie!), and.... more love. Oh well, can't win 'em all.
Then I got an even better wand for an even rapider fire shotgun.
Then, in the ice caves, I got: 2x increase mana, heavy shot, horizontal arc. Putting those, some double casts, chainsaws, and the horizontal arc on the end I ended up with a max speed automatic shotgun that uses no mana. Each pellet does something like 22 damage, which is weird since heavy shot is supposed to increase damage by 44 but eh it doesn't matter, it melts everything. The only thing it didn't do well is shoot upward. Until I swapped out horizontal arc for linear arc, which only triggers on every other triple shot.
The recoil is hard to manage, but gives me a method to move pretty fast.
That alone got me down to temple of the art. However, along the way I found:
A broken, spilled ambrosia flask. I was able to get about 40% of a full flask of it, that's enough to get me to some parallel worlds.
Luminous drill w/ trigger, along with another increase mana, along with spiral arc. Long range laser hose that will dig through anything and can fire endlessly. No regular luminous drills this run so far, but with the increase mana it doesn't really matter.
A wand with always cast healing bolt. Holy shit, I've never seen that before. Throw a spark bolt with trigger on it, along with the larpa orbit I got from the dragon in jungle, infinite (albeit slow and awkward) healing.
A wand with teleport bolt. Critical for parallel worlds along with ambrosia and digging.
I also have a black hole, and a zeta spell (copy a random spell from another held wand), so I have a (tedious) method of infinite black holes, although I have to dedicate 2 wands to it to make it work. Probably will just stick with luminous drilling until I get tinker anywhere.
I stuck my teleport bolt onto my always cast heal wand. Healing is annoying this way, but works, and I don't lose a wand slot, as I need at least one open for dragging wands back to the mountain until I get tinker anywhere.
So I have 3 dedicated wands, main auto shotgun of death, laser hose of digging, and heal/teleport wand. I've got 500 health or so max (lots of extra health hearts found).
So it's time to visit parallel worlds and get all the perks, as well as hopefully finding a less tedious healing method and some more ambrosia, or a way to tunnel through cursed rock fast enough to tank the damage. My healing wand cannot even come close to keeping up with cursed rock damage.
I plan to visit parallel worlds, become godly, collect 10 orbs total, and go into new game plus an absolute god, followed by a 33 orb win. Probably I will gib myself long before that, but it's good to have goals.
I've never been to parallel worlds in the current version, I know there are bosses lurking on the surface now, but I should be able to teleport past them or outright blow them up with my death wand. The alchemist terrifies me now though, with terrain deletion, on top of his deadly spells and reflective shield.
Post by: Damiac on July 12, 2021, 12:03:00 pm
The funny thing is, if you've only played around a bit and gotten to the ice caves or so, you don't even realize how little you've seen and experienced of this game. Which is tough, given that it's a difficult roguelike. In my experience there are really 3 phases of the game, and you can 'beat' the game without ever leaving phase 1.
Phase 1. The state you enter the game in. You are in constant danger, you have little health and are vulnerable to everything, and your offense isn't powerful enough to be considered a defense. You're balancing exploration (With the goal of increasing wealth and offensive power) with resource management (Your health). The game is like a survival horror in this phase. You can beat the game like this.
Phase 2. Your offense is powerful enough to be a good defense. Enemies still can hurt you, but you generally kill everything before it has a chance to try. Typically this involves a machine gun wand that can litter the whole screen with projectiles, or sometimes a luminous drill setup. Basically, you hold down the attack button if you think enemies might be nearby, and everything dies. However, you're still vulnerable to environmental damage like fire, toxins, ice mist, lava, etc. You can pretty well explore where you want at this point, as long as you don't wander to enemies where your offense can't keep up. The game is kind of like a FPS here, except for the lack of first person perspective or shooting. This is typically your power level when you beat the game.
Phase 3. You're practically invincible. You've explored parallel worlds and acquired most/all of the immunity perks, plus maybe some damage reduction. You've got healing on demand. As long as you don't fall into a puddle of polymorphine you're safe. Your offense is balanced around not making the game run too slow while killing everything. You have the greek letter spells and thus infinite black holes.
A problem is, the game isn't really equipped to challenge a player at phase 3. You've got more to worry about regarding not paying attention and doing something dumb rather than losing a fight. It's fun to see the crazy stuff you can do... but what do to with the crazy stuff? I can go hunt for all 33 orbs, I guess. But wow, that's a lot of playing a game I'm already in the win state for. But it's not practical to do the 33 orb ending without entering phase 3 in the process.
It's fun when you come up with a cool wand that shoots black holes at machine gun speed, teleports you across the map in moments, and heals you in the process, but the problem is you basically already won at that point.
Post by: heydude6 on July 12, 2021, 02:13:57 pm
I think what Noita does right compared to those other games is that this extra power actually has a purpose (ie. the 33 orb victory), rather than it being used to tackle the same content as you would in phase 1 (like you do in those other games). You can make the argument that 33 orb is a bit too drawn out (I think parallel worlds were a mistake, 11 Orb should have been the highest achievement), but it's better than no orbs at all, even if the implementation is flawed.
It's a step in the right direction, but it's still something that another game can improve on.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 13, 2021, 10:46:10 am
Post by: heydude6 on July 13, 2021, 11:34:21 am
Post by: MrRoboto75 on July 13, 2021, 01:49:05 pm
The Binding of Isaac also has this problem, and very rarely Gungeon. In those games, you can also acquire enough loot to become an indestructible demigod and trivialize the rest of the content.
Isaac tries to counter it by giving most of the endgame bosses some form of scaling damage reduction. Which I generally hate, especially for greed mode. Greed mode gives you a lot of power then renders it irrelevant since the final boss will still end up taking several minutes to kill.
At the very least with Isaac the game tends to breeze by if you get powerful enough, and more often than not the power's the reward for doing well in the first place (devil/angel rooms).
On the other hand, the noita subreddit seems to think even if you get to phase 3 the game will probably still have some clever way to one-shot you regardless of how overconfident you get.
Post by: Vivalas on July 13, 2021, 03:17:03 pm
Triple post... Noita's not too popular around these parts I guess. Weird, because with the amount of losing that happens in this game you'd think DF players would find it extremely !FUN!
The funny thing is, if you've only played around a bit and gotten to the ice caves or so, you don't even realize how little you've seen and experienced of this game. Which is tough, given that it's a difficult roguelike. In my experience there are really 3 phases of the game, and you can 'beat' the game without ever leaving phase 1.
Phase 1. The state you enter the game in. You are in constant danger, you have little health and are vulnerable to everything, and your offense isn't powerful enough to be considered a defense. You're balancing exploration (With the goal of increasing wealth and offensive power) with resource management (Your health). The game is like a survival horror in this phase. You can beat the game like this.
Phase 2. Your offense is powerful enough to be a good defense. Enemies still can hurt you, but you generally kill everything before it has a chance to try. Typically this involves a machine gun wand that can litter the whole screen with projectiles, or sometimes a luminous drill setup. Basically, you hold down the attack button if you think enemies might be nearby, and everything dies. However, you're still vulnerable to environmental damage like fire, toxins, ice mist, lava, etc. You can pretty well explore where you want at this point, as long as you don't wander to enemies where your offense can't keep up. The game is kind of like a FPS here, except for the lack of first person perspective or shooting. This is typically your power level when you beat the game.
Phase 3. You're practically invincible. You've explored parallel worlds and acquired most/all of the immunity perks, plus maybe some damage reduction. You've got healing on demand. As long as you don't fall into a puddle of polymorphine you're safe. Your offense is balanced around not making the game run too slow while killing everything. You have the greek letter spells and thus infinite black holes.
A problem is, the game isn't really equipped to challenge a player at phase 3. You've got more to worry about regarding not paying attention and doing something dumb rather than losing a fight. It's fun to see the crazy stuff you can do... but what do to with the crazy stuff? I can go hunt for all 33 orbs, I guess. But wow, that's a lot of playing a game I'm already in the win state for. But it's not practical to do the 33 orb ending without entering phase 3 in the process.
It's fun when you come up with a cool wand that shoots black holes at machine gun speed, teleports you across the map in moments, and heals you in the process, but the problem is you basically already won at that point.
After reading this I realize how far I am from being good at this game. Today I was excited because I finally got past Hiisi Base with a really good setup, and then I got overwhelmed in Jungle, but it still felt like I had made considerable progress since I began. But 33 orbs? Greek letter spells? I don't think I've ever even found one orb, and I'm not sure I want to know how far I am from completing the game after getting to the Jungle, since it takes a looooong time for me to get there at all. (I suppose, in metrics of playtime, it's only taken 9 hours of total experience for me to reach the Jungle, which I suppose isn't a whole lot but I play on and off and it still feels like getting to the Jungle takes about an hour or so for me.)
The biggest problem with this game is the random bullshit that kills you. I suppose this fits in with losing is !!FUN!! but for me it's kinda a turn off because I feel like I have no control over it. Usually I get some really good combo, get excited, then get too aggressive and die.
When you do get a good set-up going, this game feels amazing though. Mixing and matching, picking up useless wands to deconstruct them and put their spells in other places, etc., the "character building" aspect of the game is golden. But for me I just love chaos, action on the screen and everything dying: and I think that's where Noita's biggest negative lies for me, the game seems to actively punish having fun or experimenting. Trying out a new wand in holy mountain? Nope, prepare to be killed by an OP temple guardian. Barely escape a level with 1 HP? Well a worm ate the portal area so now the temple guardian is going to come and kill you, and you can't do anything about it. I understand wanton chaos should have consequences and I enjoy that aspect of the game: actions DO really have massive consequences in Noita. Sometimes not looking closely enough at a wand you pick up can be the difference in a good run or being one click away from obliterating yourself.
I've definitely gotten to Phase 2 a number of times though. I don't know enough about the meta of this game at all, I don't think, but Angry Ghost seems like, by far, the most OP thing to ever exist. Double DPS basically instantly and it's always an instant pick for me when I find it.
I will now take a moment to list some of the favorite builds I've ever gotten:
1. Machine Gun energy orb (the ones that float and "zap" out of existence) with speed, machine gun wand, angry ghost, and faster wands (one-off) perk. Everything in front of me was dead.
2. Energy bolt (forget the name, the Z thing that arcs into most enemies and basically instantly kills them then jumps to the next) coupled with some always casts that caused little firework explosions everywhere the bolt went.
3. Machine gun spitter bolt with trigger with some explosion spells, basically was like firing a Mk19, infinite explosions are awesome.
4. A whole bunch of wands that have nothing but explosives + repulsion sector. If you fire a bomb through a repulsion sector it acts like a ghetto grenade launcher, couple with lots of different bomb wands of different flavors crafted nicely and it's pretty nice.
And my all-time favorite run so far:
I was lucky to pick up a wand with an always-cast oil rain mod. This meant infinite oil, as every time I cast the spell it rained flammable liquid everywhere. Coupled with my extremely lucky find of oil blood in the next temple, I turned into a literal napalm factory when I added a fireball to the oil wand. I basically ran around the level covering everything in flammable death. It was glorious.
And then I died to the guardian in the temple because worm.
So yeah I love Noita, love the chaos and entropy of the game, but I'm a pyro at heart and to me the biggest downfall of the game is it doesn't give players enough freedom to just cause chaos without putting themselves in an adverse amount of danger. Or maybe I just need to get better, who knows.
Post by: heydude6 on July 13, 2021, 03:40:17 pm
On the other hand, the noita subreddit seems to think even if you get to phase 3 the game will probably still have some clever way to one-shot you regardless of how overconfident you get.
They are right though. Polymorphine always remains a threat. I’ve only died to it once, but it’s a pretty frustrating way to go. As result you can never leisurely stroll though noita and quickly finish the run like you can in Isaac, which I think creates some frustration.
I think we can conclude two things at least. Polymorphine should be removed and the endgame content should be shortened.
*snip*
It’s funny that you say that because I always felt like the point of Noita was to control and minimize chaos in a world that was always on the verge of collapsing into it.
The moment you lost control was the moment you were at risk of dying to explosions or fire or acid or lava. Any explosive crate that you left undetonated had the potential to end your run 5 minutes later.
Thus the decision to leave the crate intact so you could lure enemies into it was a calculated gamble that could reward you with double the gold compared to killing them normally or it could take out a massive chunk of your health.
It was thrilling, but you couldn’t do it all the time. Sometimes when your health is low, you just had to suck it up and admit to yourself that it wasn’t worth the risk. At the end of the day, chaos isn’t your friend in Noita.
Post by: Frumple on July 13, 2021, 03:44:03 pm
e: Also grabbing a few early on is usually a super good idea. It makes the final boss harder, but makes getting to it a fair bit easier!
Post by: Nirur Torir on July 13, 2021, 03:47:33 pm
If you want it to be a fun game about chaotically exploding things, get mods. I'm particularly fond of the following mods:
No More Worm Destruction - Worms stop angering the gods, because they stop digging.
Edit Wands Everywhere - Getting back up to edit wands isn't usually a problem, just a waste of time. Let me have my fun editing wands.
Passive Regeneration - It starts slow, then speeds up as long as you're not hit, healing up to 75%. There's still plenty of ways to die, and I try to treat it more as a chip damage mitigation and not sit around healing. I've only gotten a basic game clear a few times, even with this.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on July 13, 2021, 03:51:27 pm
but Angry Ghost seems like, by far, the most OP thing to ever exist. Double DPS basically instantly and it's always an instant pick for me when I find it.
I've found him once. It's not obvious, but he can also copy nearby enemy projectiles as well, which isn't always a good thing.
On the other hand, the noita subreddit seems to think even if you get to phase 3 the game will probably still have some clever way to one-shot you regardless of how overconfident you get.
They are right though. Polymorphine always remains a threat. I’ve only died to it once, but it’s a pretty frustrating way to go. As result you can never leisurely stroll though noita and quickly finish the run like you can in Isaac, which I think creates some frustration.
I think we can conclude two things at least. Polymorphine should be removed and the endgame content should be shortened.
Poly is good for one thing, if you exit the mountain shrines as anything other than a player character, it doesn't collapse behind you and you can still use it as a wand tinker zone. (although admittedly these days I play with "tinker anywhere")
Quote
It’s funny that you say that because I always felt like the point of Noita was to control and minimize chaos in a world that was always on the verge of collapsing into it.
The moment you lost control was the moment you were at risk of dying to explosions or fire or acid or lava. Any explosive crate that you left undetonated had the potential to end your run 5 minutes later.
Thus the decision to leave the crate intact so you could lure enemies into it was a calculated gamble that could reward you with double the gold compared to killing them normally or it could take out a massive chunk of your health.
I'm in the Nuclear Thone mindset that explosives are never my friend and must be detonated on sight.
I think the only time I really get the double money is when I get lucky and spawn with the explosive crystal wand instead of the traditional bomb stick. Honestly past the first level or two there'll be enough enemies about that you'll end up with "enough" money just by having to deal with them.
Post by: Vivalas on July 13, 2021, 04:05:51 pm
Funnily enough, after posting that last post, I decided on "one more run through" for today and almost made it past jungle. I got incredibly lucky with 4 very OP wands and one I handcrafted myself which was very satisfying.
Wand 1: 2 slots, 2 holy bombs. I didn't know what these did so I launched one and walked far enough away (or so I thought) and almost died at the start of ice caves. After Hiisi Base I found exploding corpses which was great mix with the holy bomb, although it also slowly attrited my HP, so maybe I see the point of "chaos is bad for you" ;)
Wand 2: Incredibly OP wand with fast recharge, increased damage, triple shot, long distance cast, and 3 bouncy shot. basically, at around 4m from me it would spam triple shots of these very high damage bouncy projectiles that would basically shred everything inside an enclosed space. bonus of being able to cast it through walls without exposing myself.
Wand 3: Probably the best wand of the run, 3 energy lance with homing. This thing would one shot almost everything until jungle and it also was homing. Also had a nice secondary electrical effect which I was careful to note and made sure I didn't use this while standing on metal.
Wand 4: Sea of acid + egg. Sea of Acid is so incredibly destructive, used it a few times when things were shooting up from me from below. The main downside of this as I realized the worm thing is that if there's a portal below you, you gotta find another one since it basically kills the portal it does so much damage. This now makes me wonder if there's an alternate ending that occurs if you destroy every portal in a level.
I got up to 1500 gold and got to the bottom of Jungle before I died to fire, and so far this is my best run, and I ended up with perks and wands that synergized so well, that my downfall was grinding the levels so hard just to see everything die that I died to fire not watching my HP. Perhaps I got a little cocky. And perhaps I'm getting much more better at this then I think I am. Noita is in that cool genre of games were knowledge is the best weapon in the game. Reminds me in that aspect of Outer Wilds somewhat, in that just knowing good combinations and which hazards to avoid and how to tackle everything you come across makes it much easier to progress regardless of what build you have. In either case, I think for better or worse I will be embracing the school of the Chaosmage. If I ever beat the game this way, I dunno, but I'm sure having a lot of fun melting entire levels.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on July 13, 2021, 09:40:30 pm
I got the glowing lance spell, a bolt with a heavier arc to it, which does decent damage and can pass through some terrain. I also got the +projectile speed and laser pointer (more projectile speed) perks, so it became easier to use. It one shots most of the enemies, and what it doesn't kill it'll knock back a fair distance.
My second wand was the old bomb wand, with the starting purple shot.
Third one was a teleport wand, teleports to whereever its shot lands. Honestly saved me too many times. Also almost all the exits from the mountain temples were "hot" so I could tele back into the exit shaft and snipe from there.
Fourth was various explosive wands, ended up with split shot magic missile. It would one shot any mechanical enemy I ran into.
Died mostly because the exit into the jungle was, of course, hot with a metal spearman and some sort of giant spider. It took me a few hits to the face to realize the spearman is "mechanical" and needs magic missiles. Missiles also one shot the spider. So I essentially entered the jungle with 40hp instead of some 130hp. The general enemies and hazards whittled me down to exactly 1 hp, then I stepped in poison pixels and d i e d.
Post by: Bralbaard on July 14, 2021, 01:33:06 am
but Angry Ghost seems like, by far, the most OP thing to ever exist. Double DPS basically instantly and it's always an instant pick for me when I find it.
It definitely killed me on some very promising runs. It is dangerous and not worth the risk IMO.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2021, 07:51:52 am
Post by: Vivalas on July 14, 2021, 10:29:07 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 17, 2021, 10:40:04 pm
... with the weirdest wand. It fired friendly skulls and a circle of persuasion (makes enemies friendly) that tracked and independently pursued hostile creatures... There was some finagling, but I didn't really kill anything myself... my armies arrived before me.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on July 18, 2021, 06:06:46 pm
That and fungal shifting just for the chaos it might cause. Usually its something dumb, like turning the lava lake into soup or recently, all blood is steam. Steam blood does make dismembered bodies propel themselves, tho.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 19, 2021, 12:38:34 pm
Post by: Micro102 on July 19, 2021, 01:06:54 pm
Post by: Frumple on July 19, 2021, 01:12:42 pm
do wands spawn anywhere off the main path?Yes? Fungal's pretty lousy with them, iirc, and they show up elsewhere, too. Unless it's been changed since I last played, I guess.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 19, 2021, 01:17:46 pm
Post by: Frumple on July 19, 2021, 01:45:09 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 19, 2021, 07:21:26 pm
Last time I played, I got to the sky and a cloud melted/reformed and a pixel of it got stuck inside me, locking me in place as enemies come to kill me. Have they done anything to address this? Because that turned my off the game, hard.
Getting stuck in materials is a... not uncommon(?) occurrence. Im gonna have to go with this is a feature.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 19, 2021, 07:27:41 pm
Post by: heydude6 on July 19, 2021, 07:58:11 pm
Last time I played, I got to the sky and a cloud melted/reformed and a pixel of it got stuck inside me, locking me in place as enemies come to kill me. Have they done anything to address this? Because that turned my off the game, hard.
Getting stuck in materials is a... not uncommon(?) occurrence. Im gonna have to go with this is a feature.
If you truly are stuck, then the game will automatically disintegrate the pixels around you after a few seconds. Won't do you much good if enemies are actively targeting you, but it's pretty adequate when you're just exploring around. I'm might be possible to tweak the timer with mods.
If you have the spell Digging Bolt/Blast on you, you should be able to destroy that pixel almost immediately. The sky is a pretty late-game area. I'm sure you found it at some point. It's a pretty good spell for creating machinegun wands as well. Understanding the value of spells and how to get the most out of it is an important part of this game's skill-ceiling, so I hope this is enough to resolve the issue.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 19, 2021, 08:07:17 pm