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[Hyo]

Secularism is separating religion from government, atheism is denying religion. Of course they can support each other, but it doesn't necessarily support the freedom of religion.

[Little]

The C+ and L+ seem a little too...sane. These aren't positions anyone in reality should actually hold, they should be parodies of themselves.

[Kay12]

Secularism is separating religion from government, atheism is denying religion. Of course they can support each other, but it doesn't necessarily support the freedom of religion.

Atheism is technically not denying religion, but not believing in deities. Some of the world's religions, such as Buddhism, have no deities. Coincidentally, Buddhism is one of the most liberal-friendly religions as well!

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Secularism is separating religion from government, atheism is denying religion. Of course they can support each other, but it doesn't necessarily support the freedom of religion.

Atheism is technically not denying religion, but not believing in deities. Some of the world's religions, such as Buddhism, have no deities. Coincidentally, Buddhism is one of the most liberal-friendly religions as well!

The most popular form of Buddhism in the world, Mahayana Buddhism, deifies the Buddha and many figures around him. I would rather generalize that Buddhism emphatically avoids the worship of a powerful and terrible God who must or ought to be submitted to.

[Kay12]

In any case, religious fervor and secularism aren't strictly related. There are cults that specifically don't want to get involved with earthly politics. Liberals respect the freedom of religion, and their one of their goals is secularism: everyone may belong to whichever COW (Cult Of Wackoes) they like the best but no COW has any more political influence than a highschool debate club's secondary junior lineup.

[Svirfneblim]

So, how about a 'mega church' building?

Half of it would be a large hall, the other half a restricted labyrinth. Through that labyrinth you could get into balcony-like altar and take over the mass in the same way you take over a studio in radio and TV buildings. It's just that you'd need religion in addition to persuasion.

Churches would have lots of different people a'la latte stand as well as priests and nuns up the wazoo.

I mean, it seems easy enough, not sure how hard it's to program it in!

[Kay12]

I don't think I'd like seeing Liberals shoot up the church. I mean, sure, they don't like religion interfering with politics and personal freedoms, but shooting up a church wouldn't help... no, it's not the right answer.

The right answer is the Camp <Jesus/Moses/Eliah/Crusade/Camping/Trinity/Rapture/Fagless>! It's a center of Conservative religious fanaticism where children are being brainwashed with mythical propaganda. Free children from the horrors of the conversion, fight crusaders and angry priests and redirect the Camp's TV system to show Penn & Teller instead of carefully filtered Cable News Children's shows.

EDIT: I'm working on a site, actually (forgot to mention). An Epic Conservative Film Studio, producers of horrifying loads of crap in addition to the "critically" acclaimed FlagMan Series!

[nenjin]

I really think a Mega-Church is the way to go. Give everyone in there tons of wisdom, high business and religion skills, and make the low level personnel Missionaries that want donations to set up new churches every 2 blocks from the main church.

[Kay12]

I still disagree. A church is not something Liberals would oppose. Everyone is there voluntarily, practicing their freedom of religion, and they're not hurting anyone else doing so. While LCS tends to go to wacky extremes, shooting up a church is about as Liberal as blowing up a school.

[nenjin]

A school that pumps out soulless conservative automaton, separates hard working people from their money to fuel its expansion and growth, so it can build more churches, so it can expand and get more members, to get more money, to build more churches?

I dunno, if LCS is about stereotypes of all kinds, I don't see why the church should get a pass. Not even liberals get a pass.

[Kay12]

A church is a place where people go voluntarily to devote their time to prayer and spiritiuality. Why would the Liberals oppose that more than just disagreeing with their values? They're not hurting anybody (except possibly themselves) unlike every site currently in the game. Attacking the church would be as political as just going to kill Conservatives in their homes, and it is not (save for one notable exception who has practically enslaved servants). For the sake of satire as well as game play, I think a religious conversion camp would be much better than a church. It takes into account a real issue, which is parents, teachers etc pushing religion onto children, and it would be a site which I would certainly go shoot up if I was a Liberal Terrorist.

[nenjin]

A church is a place where people go voluntarily to devote their time to prayer and spiritiuality. Why would the Liberals oppose that more than just disagreeing with their values?

Why do "liberals" shoot up a crack house, or the Vegan-Co-Op Bar, or any place? For satire purposes, a religious camp may be more novel than a mega church, but I don't think it somehow makes the point better. On game play, I don't see there being a difference at all.

As for real issues....the monetization of religion is not a real issue, that Mega Churches directly address?

It seems like you're uncomfortable with the game portraying the LCS attacking a church. Which I can understand. But LCS has already gone past the bounds in that regard for me already. So, to me, there's nothing in the least saintly about what the player's motives are in game (players create their own strictures/mythology as they play.)

I think it would be easy and fitting to include a church, just as it would be easy or fitting to do a religious camp instead. But I completely disagree that liberals would have a problem with religion. It's an arch liberal viewpoint that organized religion is used to oppress people. You're fine with going after a symptom of that, but not the symbol of it? Just seems strange. People eat at fast food restaurants. That wouldn't stop the LCS from setting fire to a restaurant because it feeds them toxic sludge, and they chose to eat it. That's not how revolutionaries roll.

[Kay12]

I'm not uncomfortable with Liberals attacking anything, it's just a game. I just don't find attacking churches, mega- or otherwise, funny, and I don't see the political point of doing so. Why would liberals attack the church? To kill a bunch of religious conservatives is the only reason I can find, but I never saw LCS as a game about killing people but a game about killing people for political purposes. What is the political message of killing people at a church? "Don't be religious!" No, Liberals don't care about non-offensive faith. "Don't give them money, they're evil!" People have always been supporting organizations they agree with with donations, religious or otherwise. "They're just a corporation selling fake salvation and indulgences!" would be probably the best one, but I still think that utterly, utterly lame compared to a salvation camp.

[nenjin]

Why would liberals attack the church? To kill a bunch of religious conservatives is the only reason I can find, but I never saw LCS as a game about killing people but a game about killing people for political purposes. What is the political message of killing people at a church? "Don't be religious!" No, Liberals don't care about non-offensive faith. "Don't give them money, they're evil!" People have always been supporting organizations they agree with with donations, religious or otherwise. "They're just a corporation selling fake salvation and indulgences!" would be probably the best one, but I still think that utterly, utterly lame compared to a salvation camp.

You say this like we already don't attack half a dozen places in game on a loose pre-text already. We do. What is it that supposedly exempts the church (other than the fact you don't find it funny compared to animal laboratories, the police station, the court house, ect...)

[Kay12]

I am a why-person, not a why not-person, and you still fail to explain what makes the church a better choice for a religious raid target than a salvation camp. I see actual political point in every conservative site currently included: Attacking police stations makes sense, because the police forces oppress people unless regulated. Attacking animal laboratories makes sense, because they torture defenseless animals for financial gain. Attacking court house wouldn't make sense, but it appears that it's controlled by conservative corrupt judges so there is at least some point (although I don't get why it improves popular views on gay rights). The court house is too important from the gameplay point of view to be removed, though. Attacking Cable News and AM Radio makes sense, because they're conservative media establishments pretending to provide neutral news while actually they're rife with propaganda. Attacking the nuclear plant makes sense, because the Liberals know that it's dangerous. Now tell me, what does the church do, how does it hurt innocent and defenseless masses? Why must it be stopped? And what makes it better for satire and gameplay than a salvation camp?