Bay 12 Games Forum

Other Projects => Other Games => Play With Your Buddies => Topic started by: E. Albright on January 10, 2017, 03:21:49 pm

Title: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (Done)
Post by: E. Albright on January 10, 2017, 03:21:49 pm
Link to NationGen: https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/

Proposed rules: Nothing special - forum name hashes, basically.

Settings:

Game name: Bay12GamesRound426a (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound426a)
Map: Ragnarok Comes (http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/3/364042063118170352/) (with some extra nostarts (http://pastebin.com/uVdzb6AC))
Mods: NationGen 0.6.21c (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/tag/0.6.21c), NationGen: Black Academy (https://mega.nz/#!adNi1CLY!gXJDqsLE95PjZjIGBsbCLbEDxW1iaPCegawwweZKBko)
Era: MA
Disciples: No
Time allowance: 30 hours at start, presumably
Special site frequency: Default
Random event frequency: Common
Story events: Off
Score graphs: Off
Hall of Fame: 15
Artifact forging limit : Limited
Thrones: 18/6/0, with 16/30 to win
Renaming: Allowed
Research: Normal


Masochists & Guinea Pigs:
E. Albright
RexMundi
Empty
ThtblovesDF
Mini
Shadowgandor
AlStar


The Departed:
a1s
chaoticag
kingkev
USEC_OFFICER

Spoiler: Cheat sheet (click to show/hide)





Spoiler: How does PBEM work? (click to show/hide)

Useful links:
Dom4Mods (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php)
Dom4 forums on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/)
An archived snapshot of the Dom3 wiki (http://web.archive.org/web/20130118162532/http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page): Yes, it's still relevant, and it hasn't been replaced yet, so... It has loads of useful information, including strategy guides. Keep in mind that while a lot of this information is still very useful and valid, a lot of it is entirely out-of-date.

Llama Server (http://llamaserver.net/): the automatic hosting server for our game.
Llama Server's map and mod browser (http://www.llamaserver.net/createDom4Game.cgi) (Yes, it's not really a browser, but you can browse the maps and mods here)
Dom4 Mod Inspector (http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/) Very useful. You can browse all the nations, items, spells and sites in the game with it. You can also browse custom mod nations, though it doesn't really support nations using negative montag firstshapes for random recruitment (e.g., NationGen Foulspawn).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 10, 2017, 03:26:47 pm
The first thing that needs discussed is getting more suckers brave souls to join us.

The second thing is what - if any - conceit we want to use in limiting nation selections. Past ones have included random seeds hashed from our names or variants thereof, all hoburgs, all foulspawn, more than one of the above, or at a minimum, some sort of draft from a fixed pool. This is open to discussion, but I'm opposed to "find a seed you like" games, because that just rewards the most patient and/or the most skilled at efficiently mining .dm files.

The third thing is everything else.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on January 10, 2017, 03:33:24 pm
I'm interested.
Have no favorite nation so just give me what's left :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 10, 2017, 03:37:08 pm
Well. This mess will be some variety of NationGen (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/), so it's still To Be Determined what nations there will be, to say nothing of what will be "left"...

If you're still interested, I'll count ya in, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on January 10, 2017, 03:37:51 pm
Well. This mess will be some variety of NationGen (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/), so it's still To Be Determined what nations there will be, to say nothing of what will be "left"...

If you're still interested, I'll count ya in, though.

That was why I was interested.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 10, 2017, 03:52:56 pm
Rando nations seems fine, maybe "every player has a different race, no shared specials" or something like that...

I'm just to lazy to gen and gen until I find something cool, but I'm intrested +1
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 10, 2017, 04:07:45 pm
Gotcha. Your phrasing just kinda sounded like you might have thought we were doing something sane and vanilla.

For my own preference, I'd vote some sort of hashed seeds. I've enjoyed the wailing and gnashing of teeth accompanying the last few such games, and NG does a moderately decent job of giving nations that are balanced, for a very loose definition of balanced. Well, okay, it's more like with random seeds everyone is hurting, but that's the same as everyone having something decent, yeah?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 10, 2017, 04:43:05 pm
Unsure how or what to do for nation genning but consider this my confirmation that I am in(brother still need to check on)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Mini on January 10, 2017, 11:13:48 pm
Yay, more nationgen. I'm in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 11, 2017, 03:45:03 am
With the slower updates on round 25 I think I'll do something silly and join in on this one I guess? What's the worstest that can happen.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: a1s on January 11, 2017, 05:30:35 am
PCP (Posting to Confirm Participation)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Shadowgandor on January 11, 2017, 06:14:38 am
I'd like to join as well. Had some fun using NationGen single player and I'd like to give multiplayer a shot :)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 11, 2017, 10:23:49 am
I'm probably going to hate myself for this, but sign me up as well (unless there's a massive number of players and you can't handle another, of course).

I have no real preference on how we generate the different nations. Drafting one out of a list of 100~ appeals to me. Picking one out of a small selection of hashed ones appeals to me. Being given a hashed nation and forced to deal with it also appeals to me, though not as strongly as the other options. I like my cheap battle mages. What can I say?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 11, 2017, 01:44:36 pm
What level for sacred power are we thinking to use? My guess and suggestion is normal, but I wonder how 'batshit insane' would go
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 11, 2017, 04:33:51 pm
BSI sacreds make things A LOT more random, and I'd be inclined to shy away from it unless we're doing a draft because it makes it more likely for some people to lose before the game starts (and assigns starting positions and decides some people lose before turn two).

We're at ten-ish right now; I'd say we can go as high as twelve before I go from "unduly optimistic" to "sensibly skeptical".
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 11, 2017, 05:36:23 pm
I am more than okay with that. The "sensibly skeptical" part. Not the BSI part. No Bullshit Insane sacreds, please.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 11, 2017, 08:19:06 pm
Brother confirms he's in, still needs to find his bay12 account not used in years later tonight though
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 12, 2017, 10:38:48 am
Okay, so, there's some really annoying bugs fixed by the dev version, but I really don't wanna push out 0.6.21 w/o some more content. And I have a bunch started but not finished, and can't easily settle on which to try to quickly knock out (think "over the weekend", assuming 3D obligations don't interfere, which they might). So, um, are there any strong opinions here on which one thing it would be nice to see chucked in before we start? Started-but-not-finished contenders are:
Why yes, I do have a short attention span with this and a problem seeing modules through all at once!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 12, 2017, 10:59:36 am
I think that it would be great if you were to bash out Enkidu over the weekend. Mostly because Ur is one of my favourite nations instead of any good reason.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: a1s on January 14, 2017, 12:14:20 pm
Wait, I though nationGen was random? how are you getting detailed info on that list?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 14, 2017, 12:35:14 pm
Naiton gen isn't quite random. At least so far as I understand. It has some parameters that are weighted to one end or another. It then assigns those to different kinda sprite chassis more or less? That way your mounted hoburgs are mounted and have mounted ish properties while your flying hoburgs are different, and your clockwork hoborgs are sufficiently clockwork. You won't also have lava people in that nation I don't think, or are less likely to. Also if you're wondering what is up with E. Albright's list of features to add one of, that is exactly that, a feature they are sure they can implement sometime before the game kicks off from that list of planned features for the next few versions. Given from what I understand E. Albright is a dev on that mod and all, it's not shocking they would know what the planned features are.

Anyway, no particular feelings on this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 14, 2017, 01:46:59 pm
Pretty much what chaoticag said.

It's not random qua random, it's procedural. Rules and data sets have to be defined for any "type" of nation that is generated, and sprites need to be cobbled together for the engine to assemble into units. E.g., NG currently creates illithid nations, but they're all just hybrids/starchildren and thralls of various species. Because I have no self-discipline, NG will probably be able to create full-sized pureblood illithids by the end of the weekend because I started crafting robes/armor/heads for them and the accompanying data should be easy to knock out.

(Tragically, that's not a list of planned features. It's a list of features I've started working on, but haven't finished. See above comment about lack of self discipline. And yes, I know big mindflayers aren't on the list I gave. Neither were a lamia theme for Amazon nations, but that didn't stop me from adding that Thursday. Again, see comment about lack of self-discipline...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 14, 2017, 01:58:12 pm
Well, it seems to have turned out well. And at least you get stuff done. I just sit and lay dreaming, keeping my dreams dreams.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 15, 2017, 05:51:05 pm
Btw as a suggestion, you could set the parameters as you desire, then give each player 3 specific seeds and let them pick one of those 3 - as you still got some choice, but only between 3 strange rando nations with the same parameters..
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 18, 2017, 12:45:27 pm
Mild feature creep and waffling have delayed the patch I wanted to push out, but it should be forced out by the end of the week. Thanks for your patience...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 18, 2017, 12:53:02 pm
Hope it all goes well. I mean, I have no idea what to expect, but I am assuming that it is going to end up entertaining.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on January 21, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Since you guys still haven't actually started yet, can I join in? Admittedly, there are already a bunch of players, so I'll understand if you don't want it crazy crowded.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 21, 2017, 04:58:16 pm
I'm willing to do eleven. I could probably even tolerate twelve, though that's always been what I take as the "reasonable limit".

I'll dredge up nations new patch or no at the end of the weekend. Hopefully patch, but my motivation to hunker down and finish the two things I've been sorta kinda trying to finish (proper big squiddies for illithid nations, and Nephilim heroes for Avvite nations) has been spotty.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 21, 2017, 09:54:52 pm
Can't wait, Also 'plus one' is confirmed, I'll prod him to come post again
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 24, 2017, 12:43:49 am
https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/tag/0.6.21

Oof. That shouldn't be oof, but oof. I'll have draft nations posted shortly. Ish. No later than 24h, and possibly significantly sooner.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 24, 2017, 02:18:00 am
All right. Abominations abound. I haven't looked closely at the mess I've made yet, but it seems like it's good and varied. I've made three mods, one from each era. My preference would be to say "vote on an era and play that", but I'm open to discussing it. If anyone wants to know the precise details of my generation methodology, I can of course share them, but it's pretty much the same as I've done in the past. The sole major difference is that I prepended 1, 2, or 3 to seeds to make sure EA/MA/LA were actually three different nations since the same seed can sometimes yield the same nation across eras, or substantially similar ones. ANYWAY:

[Link removed since it's getting replaced]

The three mods are enclosed therein. Your nations are in the order of names in the first post, so I'm first and AlStar's last. Have a look and decide which looks best, then proceed to publicly question everyone else's judgement. If you want to use the obvious decision-making criteria, I'll save you some time and point out that LA has the most hoburgs...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 24, 2017, 03:07:56 am
Argh, cost bugs. Um, stand by, I'll have to see about fixing this...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 24, 2017, 04:35:14 am
After checking the nations, I'd vote for LA, since its the only time where I am not stuck with blood mages and old age mages at the same time, just old age.

Aha the good old Giant-Rider;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on January 24, 2017, 07:27:54 am
EA Undead Abyssians. Interesting. I persume the supply bonus on some of the units is for the summonable Great lions?
MA Fire and blood is always interesting. And slaves.
LA Nice lightning zapping nation.

My ranking goes EA then LA and last MA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Mini on January 24, 2017, 08:45:57 am
Argh, cost bugs. Um, stand by, I'll have to see about fixing this...
I take it that mages aren't meant to all cost 5 then. Depending on how that turns out I'm feeling MA >> EA > LA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on January 24, 2017, 10:00:33 am
Huh. Well, I'm definitely not feeling the LA hoburgs - small bows and blowpipes in LA? Ick.

Not loving the mages for MA, but the troops seem like a pretty good mix.

In EA, the only troop that decided to learn how to put on armor is the longbowmen, of course. Mages are expensive, but the paths seem decent. Oh, and they've got longbow sacreds (who, thankfully, decided to ditch the armor, so aren't crazy material expensive) which could be interesting.

So I'd go EA > MA >> LA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 24, 2017, 11:15:56 am
I think I'll put my preference down as MA > EA >> LA. Seems about right with what I got?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 24, 2017, 12:17:16 pm
If we're already getting attached to these nations, I'll go ahead and fix the prices (advanced description costs plus in-game costs, so generally AD cost +5g) rather than re-generating with 0.6.21b. Unless everyone REALLY wants a mulligan. Which I could see since there's some pretty unreasonable nations, but that's gonna happen no matter what unless we mix-and-match nations rather than taking a straight mod. Which is also an option, TBH.

--

Aha the good old Giant-Rider;

Not to make you jealous, but Shadowgandor can one-up you:

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 24, 2017, 12:52:31 pm
Would it be possible to get a mulligan on my MA/LA nations, Tisikos and Ishotssa? I'm fine with playing as Ocoxitlan in the early age, even if Zotz aren't my thing. However I don't want to dump 300~ gold on a mid-range mage vulnerable to banish or mind duel nor do I want my basic troops running around with linen armour and no helmets in LA. So would that be okay or should I just suck it up and deal with it in the spirit of nationgen?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 24, 2017, 10:11:42 pm
Ugh, executive decision time I guess. All right, we'll re-make nations with 0.6.22, which will hopefully be relatively bug-free, or at least look relatively bug-free until 0.6.23 comes out rather than following 0.6.21's lead and exploding like a termite mound immediately upon release. So, um, stand by; I'm gonna trudge off, finish Nephil heroes in an hour or three (I hope), and push out 0.6.22, to be followed by another set of sets of nations.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 24, 2017, 11:10:52 pm
Yeah alright. Cosmic mulligan is fine with me. Might have to revote on the age as that happens but whatever. Good luck.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 25, 2017, 04:53:07 am
...well, I think I can safely say that the new version plus negated seeds managed to make the batches even more vulgar than the last ones, so... yay?

https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/tag/0.6.21c
https://mega.nz/#!adNi1CLY!gXJDqsLE95PjZjIGBsbCLbEDxW1iaPCegawwweZKBko

 Same order as before. Yadda yadda, look at nations, discuss, vote on the poll, etc. Oh. And when voting, do consider other people's nations as well as your own. There's some ugly stuff in there...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on January 25, 2017, 10:12:39 am
I'll definitely want to test them out in-game to see if/how well monkeys and abysian troops play together - it looks like all my troops have minor fire resistance, so at least they won't be setting each other on fire - but movement speed/building costs will need looking at. The blood/astral combo opens up some interesting choices... if the nation can survive long enough to get off the ground.

MA has some interesting possibilities if it can get into the water. Troops in plate mail with hide shields is a little eccentric, but I'll take it. Lots of variety in magic paths, but nothing amazing there.

LA has basically all my commanders (including my scout, which is nice) flying, while keeping human troops to do the actual work, which seems like a good mix. Priests all the way up to 3H. I have yet to find a good strategy for Nature-heavy casters, although we've got astral as a random pick, so there's communion possibilities.

Honestly, all of these seem fine. If I had to rank them, I'd probably go LA > EA > MA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 25, 2017, 10:31:58 am
Looks like a good seed, voted for MA. Plenty of Underwater access in some of those fellas, so thats nice.

Also Giants riding horses look kinda silly, I love it.

LA has the Guards of Death, murder-bots

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 25, 2017, 11:50:44 am
Checking before I assume. We are picking one of these first, then drafting specific nations?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on January 25, 2017, 12:32:52 pm
Checking before I assume. We are picking one of these first, then drafting specific nations?
The nations are in player order (from the 1st page) - so you'll be the third nation down on each of the three mods. Pick which ERA makes you most happy (or least sad, anyway.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 25, 2017, 12:44:29 pm
Looks like I have an astral lizard caelan pick for Early age, whose forts are expensive and who prefer heat + 1 despite having ice power caelan troop? I'm a little confused, but okay. Seems odd to me, but I can prolly make it work.

Then I have boreal human underlings to vaetti. The one boreal human is resource expenisve and the rest are cheap. Also rat and spider riders. Some interesting magic paths.

Late age I have illitihid abyssians? Well okay. Magic wise they seem kinda odd. Troop wise they seem kinda... odd.

I'll go ahead and put my preferences from best to worst at MA, EA and LA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 25, 2017, 01:22:57 pm
Troops in plate mail with hide shields is a little eccentric, but I'll take it.

This is actually the hallmark of Machaka-style (aka "austral") troops. Well, that and darker complexions, and colossi (relatively speaking), and monochrome-ish feathered headgear.

Looks like I have an astral lizard caelan pick for Early age, whose forts are expensive and who prefer heat + 1 despite having ice power caelan troop? I'm a little confused, but okay.

Ha! Funny thing, so Caelians only care about their own race's tendencies when deciding if ice gear is a good idea. That might not be the worst idea to change. And for the flip side, coldblooded lizards probably shouldn't crop up as secondary races to a frigid nation, either...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 25, 2017, 02:31:42 pm
It's not the worst thing, but it confused me quite a bit XD
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 25, 2017, 03:07:53 pm
Oh, in case it's not completely and utterly glaringly obvious, my first pick is EA because duh. I mean, really, have you looked at the abominations the RNG gave me? Second choice is LA because I can't resist the idea of Warbred running around with Belittling Battleaxes. So EA>LA>MA
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Shadowgandor on January 27, 2017, 01:49:43 pm
Alright, MA looks awesome. I'm also ok with EA, although LA seems a tad borish. Fun gen though!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 28, 2017, 09:21:46 pm
My vote is MA, as that'd make me thespinth right?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 28, 2017, 11:22:15 pm
Yup. Crystal Amazons with caveman slaves.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 29, 2017, 08:00:55 am
Ha, Ironically I get to play Ulm again, without good troops this time however... Forge Bonus and depending on good randoms...

Edit: Seems that me (MA) and Teshro (MA) have nearly the same sacred unit, both are tengus with the same cost and 1 resource difference - mine have a katana, his have no-dachi. Mountain Surival vs Forest Surival and Slash resistance vs Pierce resistance (Though I'd say he lucked out with pierce resistance, it is way better then slash-res imo).

I just assume we end up with MA? Only one vote missing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 29, 2017, 04:45:19 pm
Eight votes of eleven players (with one vote effectively abstaining), but one of the remaining three hasn't actually commented directly on the forum and may or may not have dug up their forum credentials at this juncture. So we're mostly in, with MA looking to be the favorite, yes.

Even though it was my third choice, MA kinda looks like it may be the most balanced. I really wanted to see EA's swan chariots in action (sailing trampling troops, woo!), but MA does at least have some croc riders (sailing slow cavalry, woo?)...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 29, 2017, 04:58:56 pm
I'm fine with MA, even if I don't get to experience the joys of Bear Assassins or Swan Chariots. Honestly I couldn't decide which of the ages I liked the most so... Yeah. Time to formulate a proper strategy for MA Tsihor and figure out how expansion is going to go. And probably produce some proper fluff because nationgen's descriptions are so terrible.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 29, 2017, 05:40:35 pm
In the interest of keeping things moving forward, since (regardless of poll votes) we have 5 opinions in favor of MA after four-ish days of voting, which easily beats the other expressed opinions, MA it is. USEC wants to write fluff, so I'll go ahead and say we have 'til Wednesday-ish to write fluff (because yes, NG descriptions are still awful... hmm... maybe I should DROP EVERYTHING and work on that instead of finishing any of my 30-90%-done nations-types...), so long as we're simultaneously developing our pretenders and grousing about maps/thrones. I'll take all the fluff I get, compile it into a coherent mod file (though the only difference will be fluff, so you should be able to use what you have right now if you want instead), and make the game NLT Thursday night, so we can hopefully start at or around Saturday and knock out the early turns over the weekend.



So then. MA Black Academy it is...

Also: we need an argument about maps and thrones. Ready... go!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 30, 2017, 12:48:44 am
Well, do people even want thrones or no? And I'll poke my brother into posting again. And at this point making pretenders is effectively ready, no? I'll get started.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on January 30, 2017, 01:03:16 am
We'd prefer having your brother post yes. I mean, otherwise there'd be a conflict of interest if we wanna send some correspondence with you as a middleman. I also think we're clear to design a pretender, although I have no idea if the pretender would be considered kosher by the base code since some people would like to get some nation descriptions down first. It likely won't do jack to pretenders, but just saying in case it does actually happen.

So anyway, maps? Who has an idea about what map to play on, since I certainly don't.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on January 30, 2017, 01:10:35 am
I'm pretty sure at this point most everyone has drank the Koolaid in re: thrones. It's certainly less miserable than fights to the death.

And yes, you should be able to make your pretenders, as descriptions won't affect the mechanical fiddly bits of a mod so with and without descriptions should be the same to the game engine.

Throne-wise, I'll start with a proposal of 18/6/0 with 16 to win. I'll try to stay aloof on the subject of maps lest I straightaway lead us off to a pretty-but-painful map as is my wont.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on January 30, 2017, 02:16:31 am
I'd prefer a little water, but unless anyone starts there not too much.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: kingkev on January 30, 2017, 02:23:14 am
Howdy Rex's brother here, and yea middle era to get those old ones would be great; besides that cool with either thrones or no thrones. Preferably with at least a little water I can steal.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on January 30, 2017, 03:55:54 am
I'm going with the Koolaid Thrones, too.

I personally don't have any underwater access in any form, but having little clusters of water and not one big body of it seems fine, especially so those with sailing can use there tactical options fully.

Or we just use "Snerdryn"

Games with this many players are always a bit scary, (3v1 /2v1s), so some natural borders would be fine.

Fluffwise I'm pretty sure my nation will be a hell-hole with the worst of worst scales (-85% supplies? Awesome), but ... err.. great craftmanship and the elite can fly anyway, fuck the guy on the ground.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on January 30, 2017, 04:00:46 pm
Just send me a pm once everything has been decided.
I have no preferances.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 01, 2017, 01:07:49 am
Oh, USEC, in case you didn't figure it out (and it's not obvious, so that wouldn't be surprising), your croc cav can sail for free if they have a sailing commander, and your croc commanders can sail but have no troop capacity. So together...

I have no idea if they're too strong/too weak, so they may be extremely (un)attractive. They're very cheap - maybe too cheap - but they're also really fragile. However, since their crocs fight until the end of battle when the riders die, they may at least make nasty suicide marines.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 01, 2017, 10:33:59 am
I noticed that the crocs had sailing and was going to test whether this actually meant they could sail for free or if it did functionally did nothing. Given that this is Dom 4, neither outcome would surprise me. So thanks for informing me of this so that I can use it if needed.

Also I'm done writing my fluff for Tsihor. (http://pastebin.com/UeNzPDw8) Not the best fluff given my current state of exhaustion, but it'll do.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 01, 2017, 03:03:16 pm
Still better than my fluff. I share your annoyance at getting two functionally identical sets of units, BTW; there should probably be a mechanism added so NG can recognize gear that is only superficially different and avoid using it to make unit variations.

Anyone else writing fluff, or should I set up the game?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 01, 2017, 04:40:25 pm
I'd say set it up I guess? Not gonna be doing much of anything with my units other than sending them out to die in droves.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 02, 2017, 06:47:29 am
Aha we can fluff it up as we play, me thinks.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 02, 2017, 12:59:47 pm
Game page up: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound426
Final mod version with fluff added for two nations: https://mega.nz/#!yFsS0R4b!bR2ETdyRd3HnWvYxbvX8qVtbJX2bAY1hrRtrQdGtpqg

Start submitting pretenders, and please post here when you do so I know we have no interlopers. I'd like to start this by tomorrow night so we can knock out the early turns over the weekend...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Mini on February 02, 2017, 02:30:43 pm
Pretender submitted.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 02, 2017, 03:04:17 pm
I think I submitted mine. Just waiting to see if it's accepted or not.

Edit: welp. Looks like Llamaserver is having some mail server issues at the moment.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on February 02, 2017, 04:32:43 pm
Oh hey - they fixed the "Unexpected Nation" bug again - Nice!

I'll upload my pretender ASAP.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 02, 2017, 05:32:39 pm
So is anyone getting their pretender resubmitted over and over.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 02, 2017, 06:11:55 pm
Might be a before/after patch thing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: kingkev on February 02, 2017, 08:19:21 pm
I Can't manage to connect to the page to download the final version of the mod any ideas?
Edit figured it out will get my pretender up asap
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on February 02, 2017, 09:16:14 pm
Pretender sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: RexMundi on February 03, 2017, 01:34:40 am
Sent
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: kingkev on February 03, 2017, 01:35:26 am
Mine's in going earth bless.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 03, 2017, 01:57:37 am
Feel free to keep that info confidential. Then again chances are we can look at people's titles and figure out a guess at their blesses. If any.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 03, 2017, 03:03:25 am
I will send mine in about 8 hours. Sorry I kinda lost track of this thread :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 03, 2017, 03:33:16 am
Sending mine shortly-

I honestly never look at titles, it feels to cheesy.

As a sidenote, wouldn't it be awesome if you could have double-gods (at the cost of... 222 points) or deep into that "all negative scales, but hey 3 dragons, I 'r daneris now"
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on February 03, 2017, 01:06:28 pm
Sending mine shortly-

I honestly never look at titles, it feels to cheesy.

As a sidenote, wouldn't it be awesome if you could have double-gods (at the cost of... 222 points) or deep into that "all negative scales, but hey 3 dragons, I 'r daneris now"
It's an interesting idea - maybe each pretender chassis would double the cost. So you could get one Crone for 60 (or whatever the cost is, can't check right now), get a second for 120 points, get a third for 240 points. I could actually see it as an alternate strategy - go for a bunch of weenie pretenders with good slots to work as researchers/summoners; or go for a couple of the cheap "beast" gods to blitz a start.

Dragons would be a possibility, but probably ruinously expensive.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 03, 2017, 02:13:39 pm
Pretender uploaded
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 03, 2017, 05:00:37 pm
Likewise. Three to go...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 03, 2017, 05:14:05 pm
Make that two. I just sent mine in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on February 04, 2017, 08:29:04 am
I forgot. Do you set a password or not?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 04, 2017, 08:32:56 am
Do not. Passwords are for hosted games, with play by email only you get your turn file. One reason to also not set a password is you will need to type it every time your save comes in. Another reason would be that if you wanted to get a replacement, they will have to do the same. So long as you are using your own email address, that's all the password you need.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: Empty on February 04, 2017, 08:58:40 am
I'm in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 04, 2017, 11:52:14 am
Oh, I always assumed we had a reserved spot with no player, that name can the cause of some confusion, Empty.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 04, 2017, 12:53:34 pm
...so we're now waiting on a1s and their alien squid. I'll ping them to the best of my abilities.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 05, 2017, 03:33:40 am
...I'll start as soon as I see confirmation that the squid who were added were indeed a1s and not some random squid off the street...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: chaoticag on February 05, 2017, 04:00:42 am
You say that as a jest, but I'm pretty sure that player is an actual squid playing off a street cart somewhere between posing as a street cart chef.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: a1s on February 05, 2017, 12:17:04 pm
Yeah, it's me. Also, with all the warnings you'd think no one would join private nationGen games at random, but it actually happens. I tend to view that as a positive though (you get to meet new fans of Dominions).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: E. Albright on February 05, 2017, 01:06:27 pm
Spoiler: Portents and signs (click to show/hide)

Some of these are subtle; most... aren't.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: AlStar on February 05, 2017, 01:09:47 pm
I could be ANYTHING. IGNORE ME!

Interesting to get the sage as the first-turn merc. I must say, it'd be an awfully nice boost to early research.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 06, 2017, 05:38:00 am
Useful note:

You can load the mod into the dom4 inspector to view the fluff that was written, for example for the hero of Tsihor.
###

Would be great if we had a little overview (bay12name - nation) in the first post.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 06, 2017, 10:51:42 am
I can't imagine why you'd want to look at the hero of Tsihor. Nothing special about them.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (TBD NationGen game)
Post by: a1s on February 06, 2017, 11:20:00 am
Would be great if we had a little overview (bay12name - nation) in the first post.
Let's keep it a mystery.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 07, 2017, 09:25:43 am
Now, it's been a while, I'll admit, but I don't remember turn 1 usually being a multi-day affair...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 07, 2017, 09:53:00 am
I believe we're waiting on Shadowgandor. I usually handle reminders in the other thread so I was considering dropping them a reminder, but I don't know if that would be me overstepping my bounds. At least over there I volunteered as a co-admin.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 07, 2017, 11:12:35 am
chaoticag, if you wanna take on the nagging portion of admin duties, I'll gladly yield them.

AlStar, the first turn by default is given a longer-than-normal turnaround time by llamaserver, and this one was made worse by me adjusting the interval which added another 6h to it. Having said that, though... you normally wouldn't notice that because it's the first turn, and gets done almost immediately. This is the longest first turn I've ever had, by at least a day. Ouch. I really hope it's not a sign of things to come.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 07, 2017, 02:50:46 pm
Should we extend?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 07, 2017, 03:30:02 pm
Feels really odd extending at this point already.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 07, 2017, 03:57:39 pm
Throw in a 12 h extension, pm people and if they don't respond we might have to see how the ai fucks up
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 07, 2017, 05:02:49 pm
Well, dropped a pm at them. Just gotta wait until there's a kind of response.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 07, 2017, 11:29:53 pm
Throw in a 12 h extension, pm people and if they don't respond we might have to see how the ai fucks up
Given how early we are in the game, it'd make more sense to just recreate the game without Shadowgandor, rather than count on the AI to play a good game and not just 'gift' a valuable province to whoever happens to start near it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 08, 2017, 12:38:43 am
Hi guys, sorry for being late, but I never received the turn file. I just received the reminder yesterday, but no turn file. Requested a resend and will do the turn in a few minutes
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 08, 2017, 12:46:53 am
sent
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 08, 2017, 01:21:25 am
Really? Turn 2 and I've found a capital? Really? *sigh*
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 08, 2017, 06:02:56 am
Hi guys, sorry for being late, but I never received the turn file. I just received the reminder yesterday, but no turn file. Requested a resend and will do the turn in a few minutes
Oh that must have been odd. I guess stranger things have happened. Also hi, looks like I'm going to be the resident late person botherer in this thread.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 08, 2017, 06:26:22 am
Thanks for that thou, I need my dom4 fix and ya late turners mess me up ; )

Also, jeez - Capital-cuddling sucks
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 08, 2017, 06:33:41 am
I'm in another awkward position, though I'll keep that a bit of a secret until it's more obvious where I am.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 08, 2017, 11:26:46 am
Pro tip: if you're the last person in the turn, you can wait <5 minutes and play your next turn right away. Not only does that speed up the game, but you will also remember what you were planing to do better.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 08, 2017, 01:18:42 pm
Also, jeez - Capital-cuddling sucks

It's the one thing I hate about Pymous's lovely, lovely maps. High interconnectivity for all provinces means there's a relatively short path between everything.

I have a nasty feeling I'll locate a second capital next turn, alas. My corner of the torus feels cramped.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 08, 2017, 04:46:21 pm
Funny E, I think i can see your capitol myself, so soon you'll find me too
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 08, 2017, 07:12:44 pm
Shit sorry I forgot Ill get mine in now!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 08, 2017, 07:18:27 pm
Ok I just looked at it A: sorry for getting mine in last B: I thought all the previous stuff was about me because I saw it then ran off to do my turn now I feel stupid actually reading it. :/
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 08, 2017, 09:19:02 pm
I remembered this map was a bit of a claustrophobic CF, but I didn't remember it was this bad. Grr, Snyrdren is too small for how interconnected it is, at least for this many players.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 08, 2017, 09:22:53 pm
We're only on turn 3. I'd say that restarting with a larger/better map is still an option.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 08, 2017, 09:43:22 pm
To clarify, we have a cluster of three of us with two provinces between our capitals. It's... cozy. Very cozy. Possibly too cozy. We can probably survive, but seriously, this is slightly ridiculous. Especially since I suspect that I'm also two provinces from a third nation in the other direction.

We've had a slow start, so I'll understand if people want to stick with what we have and press on. But I'd say that it does at a minimum seem worth discussing, because from where I'm sitting it feels like there's barely hand room, to say nothing of elbows.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 08, 2017, 10:38:40 pm
Since the slow start was mostly due to technical issues I feel like we could restart with no difficulties or significant time loss. The pretenders are already made so resubmitting them wouldn't take any longer than a regular turn. As such I strongly feel like we should restart so that capital placement doesn't screw over any players. It'd be more fun for everyone in the long run, I think, instead of people getting steamrolled by some nation with the resources of 4~ capitals at their disposal.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 09, 2017, 12:12:23 am
Since the slow start was mostly due to technical issues
Was it? If I understand correctly it was entirely a series of human errors (mine included.) But I have no specific attachment to this map, so if changing would lead to a better experience, why not?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 09, 2017, 03:32:57 am
If you guys want to restart that's ok with me
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 09, 2017, 03:59:47 am
I'll abstain from voting. Either way works out for me, it's just a matter of whether I wanna be lazy or not.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on February 09, 2017, 04:30:04 am
I'm fine either way.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 09, 2017, 05:45:32 am
Eh, sure - the only soft issue is people may have already gained knowledge, others may not have. I want to continue as it is simpler, but really it's E. Albrights call.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 09, 2017, 02:56:21 pm
Although it definitely seems like close quarters on the current map, I'm willing to go with either decision.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 09, 2017, 05:13:53 pm
That's close enough to everyone. I'll, ah, find us something slightly larger and/or less densely connected and get it set up tonight.

If anyone wants to get a feel for the corner of the torus that had RexMundi, USEC_OFFICER, and me concerned about placement, I started in 106, RexMundi in 125, and USEC_OFFICER in 85. Based on candles, I'm pretty sure someone else was in 96, 105, or 113. I don't know if the rest of you were comparably tight-packed, but that felt like a bit too many capitals 2-ish provinces from each other.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 09, 2017, 05:37:33 pm
Eh, sure - the only soft issue is people may have already gained knowledge, others may not have.
Well no necesarily, because, if you want a new pretender, now's your chance, and if you don't- you already have one. So maybe that knowledge you got is dead wrong.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 09, 2017, 06:09:24 pm
I seemed to have about 3 provinces between me and the next person I ran into, but I also managed to neighbor uh, 3 throne provinces. Anyway, do we have any map suggestions?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 09, 2017, 06:17:59 pm
I went with Ragnarok Comes (http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/3/364042063118170352/), albeit with slightly-more-aggressive nostarts. 153+28, EW wrap.

The contents of the modified map file (.map, not .tga) can be found at http://pastebin.com/uVdzb6AC ; IIRC you don't actually need them so long as you have the .tga in your map directory, though.

Game is at: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound426a
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 09, 2017, 07:16:58 pm
Pretender re-sent.

Interesting - I wasn't even in the main crush - I was at 26 and had Ukubabbum's capital at 18.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 09, 2017, 07:31:41 pm
That pastebin doesn't link to anything so... Hopefully it's not needed as you've mentioned. Anyways. Pretender sent. Let's hope that this one turns out better than the last map.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 09, 2017, 07:55:14 pm
Oh right, figure I should mention that I resubmitted my pretender.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 09, 2017, 08:05:52 pm
PB link was including the ; after it. Fixed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 09, 2017, 08:41:22 pm
Out of curiosity: is there something wrong with Dominions' own random maps?  :-\
Pretender being sent as we speak.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 09, 2017, 09:08:40 pm
Well, I try to avoid uploading too many maps to LS since they pretty much never go away and just get more cluttered. Although that didn't matter this time because I still uploaded one... ><

Also, pre-made maps are generally prettier. I am a sucker for a pretty map.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 10, 2017, 12:14:09 am
Mailed in my pretender again.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 10, 2017, 03:16:54 am
Back in the bucket
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on February 10, 2017, 03:34:07 am
Sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 10, 2017, 08:47:17 am
In hindsight I'm glad we restarted.

I forgot my precious pretender was missing certain crucial appendages.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 10, 2017, 12:04:40 pm
Also, pre-made maps are generally prettier. I am a sucker for a pretty map.
prettier, yes. But I just have to say, Dominions (3 and 4, I haven't seen the earlier ones) random maps are really nice. I'm a fanboy of procedural generation.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 10, 2017, 12:57:03 pm
ok, I resent, hanging around to make sure I get the conformation from llama. Sorry for slowness
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 10, 2017, 04:58:06 pm
I may have changed mine to a warm climate instead of a cold climate after remembering an Icy domain is the OPPOSITE of what cold blooded pale ones want.
Ps: yes I forgot they were cold blooded.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 11, 2017, 06:39:45 am
We're still waitning on shadowgandor before we start. I'll toss in a PM shortly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 11, 2017, 11:26:12 am
prettier, yes. But I just have to say, Dominions (3 and 4, I haven't seen the earlier ones) random maps are really nice. I'm a fanboy of procedural generation.  :P

Yes, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm really a sucker for pretty-but-impractical maps (as we'll all probably be seeing shortly, muwahaha).

I may have changed mine to a warm climate instead of a cold climate after remembering an Icy domain is the OPPOSITE of what cold blooded pale ones want.

They're also amphibious, so melty rivers are kinda their thing, too.




For the record (since we had someone have issues with this last time), I am adjacent to one throne.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 11, 2017, 11:49:00 am
I was adjacent to a throne as well last time. Not this time though.

Also this maps looks quite interesting strategic wise.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 11, 2017, 12:22:57 pm
Aye, it's only EW wrap, but there's enough long NW connections that it's not wholly unlike a full torus.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 11, 2017, 01:11:07 pm
This map sure is pretty, but dear god drawn borders of provinces would've been great. Some of these connections are not plainly clear to me for one...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 11, 2017, 01:59:42 pm
This map sure is pretty, but dear god drawn borders of provinces would've been great. Some of these connections are not plainly clear to me for one...
If I think this map has a version of the tga running around with drawn boarders. I know because I had the same reaction last time I played it. I'll see if I can get mine to work the same when i do my turn and drop the file on imgur or something for you
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on February 11, 2017, 02:11:59 pm
It's part of the download in the link EA gave, just remove the normal one and remove "_Borders" from the other one.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 11, 2017, 02:43:27 pm
there's a borders version of the map - you just need to rename the file.
Wow, I need to check what the last post was - I wasn't even close to answering that first.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 11, 2017, 05:08:03 pm
Ok mine's in for the first turn again.
Edit: in now I sent it to urns@lamaserver...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 11, 2017, 11:30:09 pm
So it's back down to Shadowgandor. I resent the turn like an obnoxious git since they had trouble with turn 1 not getting there last time...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 12, 2017, 12:50:33 am
I should likely compile nations to users and post it on here. I almost feel like I am hounding Shadowgondor at this point however. Still we did take a while to get this off the floor so being impatient makes some amount of sense.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 12, 2017, 01:00:28 am
I would just like to point out that if it is inconvenient for Shadowgondor to play (for any reason) the game has basically not started yet, and they can back out with 0 hard feelings from the other players (or at least from myself.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 12, 2017, 06:28:26 am
Sent it! Sorry for taking so long. I should be fine once the game starts, as I can do my turn before work
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 12, 2017, 06:39:41 am
I didn't notice last time so I was mistaken. But I'm also next to a throne this time again.

Also my luck is wicked.
+2 dominion event.
And a 35 unrest event welp there goes my tax. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 12, 2017, 07:00:37 am
While we are Bitching - let me join in - I'm surrounded by nothing but wastes and the only area that is not a fallout worthy wasteland is blocked by a high level throne. I'm sure the flavor is good thou.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 12, 2017, 07:21:08 am
While we are Bitching - let me join in - I'm surrounded by nothing but wastes and the only area that is not a fallout worthy wasteland is blocked by a high level throne. I'm sure the flavor is good thou.

There's probably gold after yonder swamps! Start packing!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 13, 2017, 04:17:20 am
While we are waiting for mini to finish his turn, here is the list of nations matched to players.

E. Albright  -  Teshro
a1s  -  K'narwa
RexMundi  -  Thespinth
kingkev  -  Lhong
Empty  -  Tuocapa
ThtblovesDF  -  Ukubabbum
Mini  -  Sessa
chaoticag  -  Teleboda
Shadowgandor  -  Iedyni
USEC_OFFICER  -  Tsihor
AlStar  -  Kathan
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 13, 2017, 04:27:39 am
Oh, well then. I prolly should draft him a message if we don't have a turn in by the time I get home from my internship.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 13, 2017, 04:06:47 pm
Got mine in, haven't seen anyone else yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 14, 2017, 02:49:31 am
Got mine in, haven't seen anyone else yet.
That's what the whole no-starts deal was about- you're not supposed to.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 14, 2017, 02:51:01 am
Well, the game does seem to be going at a decent clip now. Hope everyone has fun.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 14, 2017, 09:41:19 am
Nothing quite like the thrill of your army routing but still managing to win the battle with your commander as the only remaining soldier on the field.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 14, 2017, 09:53:02 am
Nothing quite like the thrill of your army routing but still managing to win the battle with your commander as the only remaining soldier on the field.

Must be nice.
I forgot about the new squad system. So I sent a second commander with a small squad to the battle where my main forces went as well.
The small squad was at the front most likely. 1 unit got killed and my army insta routed against barbarians. Ouch.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 14, 2017, 10:46:01 am
The 5 provinces near me combined have less then like 18 000 population, but I'm having fun. I'm sure my scales will clean those remaining out quickly, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 14, 2017, 10:51:35 am
I found a neighbor on turn 3, but I sent a flying scout specifically looking for one. The elbow room seems a lot more reasonable this time around.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on February 14, 2017, 01:12:33 pm
I found one on turn 3, and my scouts don't fly, so I guess my corner is the small one.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 14, 2017, 07:08:26 pm
I only have 12,000 caveman in pop living around me dandy enough. Maybe I can collect enough cave drakes + or - riders to get some work done.
At least I won't kill my peasants with dominion.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 15, 2017, 01:39:56 pm
Had 64 bandits show up at my capital's doorstep and try to claim ownership, which was quite a surprise. I would've thought that a capital's PD would stop events like that from triggering.

Fortunately, plate armor and shields are more than a match for short bows, and we defeated them handily. It's just as well that the bandits hadn't struck somewhere else though - a giant group like that could easily have killed a mage or even slaughtered an expansion group, not to mention giving me the headache of having to deal with recapturing a province.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 15, 2017, 01:48:53 pm
Not so much the PD; it's the fact that it's early and your capital which stops most events of that sort from happening like that. It's odd that one that drastic slipped. Was it "An outlaw with delusional ideas of justice..."? You may wanna drop a bug report on the Steam forums to ask RandomEvents to take a look at that. That one shouldn't happen before turn 15, or ever in capitals, so if it did something is wrong...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 15, 2017, 06:34:11 pm
It was "villains have tried to seize control of the province." It looks like I very nearly maxed out the unit rolls - 64 on 12d6.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 15, 2017, 07:02:38 pm
It was "villains have tried to seize control of the province." It looks like I very nearly maxed out the unit rolls - 64 on 12d6.

I still say I'd rather have that then my 32 unrest event :P
Too bad PD do not get experience at the least.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 16, 2017, 11:58:57 am
It was "villains have tried to seize control of the province." It looks like I very nearly maxed out the unit rolls - 64 on 12d6.

I still say I'd rather have that then my 32 unrest event :P
Too bad PD do not get experience at the least.
Oh, sure, it's easy to say that... since I won. If I'd lost, though? (Unlikely, given a capital's starting PD level... but possible if that PD happened to be especially vulnerable to arrows)  At the very least I'd have virtually no income for 1 turn (1/2 capital province, 0 from everything else) and wouldn't be able to recruit anything at my capital, assuming that I had a powerful enough army to immediately turn around and re-conquer the place. The further away the army was, the worse it gets.

And, of course, if I didn't have an army capable of defeating the bandits... well, that's game over right there.

Now, don't get me wrong. 32 unrest - especially early in the game - on your capital sucks. You've either got to waste a turn or two patrolling, or deal with lowered income for a number of turns (hope you picked order scales!)... but at the same time, it's not a possible end-of-game scenario.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 16, 2017, 12:36:22 pm
It was "villains have tried to seize control of the province." It looks like I very nearly maxed out the unit rolls - 64 on 12d6.

I still say I'd rather have that then my 32 unrest event :P
Too bad PD do not get experience at the least.
Oh, sure, it's easy to say that... since I won. If I'd lost, though? (Unlikely, given a capital's starting PD level... but possible if that PD happened to be especially vulnerable to arrows)  At the very least I'd have virtually no income for 1 turn (1/2 capital province, 0 from everything else) and wouldn't be able to recruit anything at my capital, assuming that I had a powerful enough army to immediately turn around and re-conquer the place. The further away the army was, the worse it gets.

And, of course, if I didn't have an army capable of defeating the bandits... well, that's game over right there.

Now, don't get me wrong. 32 unrest - especially early in the game - on your capital sucks. You've either got to waste a turn or two patrolling, or deal with lowered income for a number of turns (hope you picked order scales!)... but at the same time, it's not a possible end-of-game scenario.

Yeah I was comparing apples and oranges.
I'm guessing probably everyone has met at the least one neighbor at this turn.
Diplomacy will probably start next turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 16, 2017, 03:10:43 pm
Started like, 2-3 turns ago for me. We can to a happy agreement.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 16, 2017, 06:39:46 pm
Well dandy I met my first person this turn time to open a consulate or something.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 17, 2017, 07:02:57 am
Should we do diplomacy in-game? Or outside of it, like modern people?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 17, 2017, 08:02:42 am
You know, I didn't even look before, but there are apparently a bunch of us who generated amphibian civilizations. It's really rather crowded in the lakes.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 17, 2017, 08:32:39 am
A little struggle for the water seems alright, tbh.

As for diplomacy, are you telling me you don't have 3 life-long-allys and one guy that tries to buy a province of you for 5 astral gems and he looks kinda shady and you have to worry about that now?

I wonder if I ever manage to take a throne without the throne taking a piece of my soul in return : /
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 17, 2017, 09:39:11 am
there are apparently a bunch of us who generated amphibian civilizations.
I thought that was the theme. :P
"Black" was a reference to how there's no light at the bottom of a sea, and "Academy" is a synonym for "school" as in "school of fish". no? I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 18, 2017, 07:06:57 am
Should we do diplomacy in-game? Or outside of it, like modern people?
As for diplomacy, are you telling me you don't have 3 life-long-allys and one guy that tries to buy a province of you for 5 astral gems and he looks kinda shady and you have to worry about that now?
no?  ???
So... is that a "yes" to out of game diplomacy?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 18, 2017, 10:18:44 am
Yes to out of game.

While we often send little fluff messages and all that ingame, the delay would be to long and we are all on this forum afterall.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 18, 2017, 02:20:19 pm
I found a second person great.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 19, 2017, 12:25:38 am
Well, this turn got interesting fast. Though I should have seen it coming. The Moon Council does not wish war.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 19, 2017, 03:32:24 am
I pretty much have PTSD from getting bless rushed in game 25, so I hope we can do without that this round : D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 19, 2017, 10:14:23 am
I just noticed something - my mounted leader has boot slots - is that supposed to happen? I feel like vanilla mounted leaders give up that slot.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 19, 2017, 11:51:58 am
Oh my, good catch. Yuck. That's gonna be a lot of code-or-data-wrangling, but it very much needs fixed, obviously.

I assume the same applies to chariots... [Yep.]

[And fix devised, implemented, and committed to the development branch. Obnoxious, yes, but necessary.]
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 20, 2017, 04:05:05 am
Hosting is in about 6 hours, waiting for "Thespinth // Rex", then we'll see if I lose a pretender or not.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on February 20, 2017, 12:53:18 pm
just submitted. Good luck on not. Beyond the tile I have diplomatic claim on, I'm now boxed in, so this will be interesting
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 20, 2017, 01:22:35 pm
Hosting was actually in almost a day, but still.

If at some point K'nwarwa feels comfortable talking about it, I'd be curious about their experiences with glamorous squid. The "alternative defenses" versions of illithid soldiers didn't exactly get a lot of testing when I implemented them...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 20, 2017, 02:17:24 pm
My hero Rightly takes this prize in the name of his snake god, not yours.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 20, 2017, 06:35:26 pm
First time in like 3 rounds I had enemys in the Arena, how nice... that fight was silly btw, my guys passing out, countless smites failing against 15 MR, him getting a wound and barly getting away... close. Then the next starts and he just gets slaped down.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 20, 2017, 06:49:46 pm
The "alternative defenses" versions of illithid soldiers
I'm a little more concerned about half of my commanders being good at entering The Void, but I don't actually have one available. Also they're amphibious but all (most) their equipment is iron. Government corruption?  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 20, 2017, 09:58:47 pm
The "alternative defenses" versions of illithid soldiers
I'm a little more concerned about half of my commanders being good at entering The Void, but I don't actually have one available. Also they're amphibious but all (most) their equipment is iron. Government corruption?  :P

Man that could be a problem.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 20, 2017, 11:32:21 pm
I'm a little more concerned about half of my commanders being good at entering The Void, but I don't actually have one available. Also they're amphibious but all (most) their equipment is iron. Government corruption?  :P

Void gates on your capital sites are A LOT more common if your nation has troops with summoning skill, but they're not guaranteed. OTOH, you're not paying anything for it, so if you happen to find the Strange House in the Mist, it's a bonus.

The iron bit is because illithids fall in the 1/3 of races that use default race themes instead of custom ones, and your nation rolled an advanced tech level theme, which means lots and lots of iron instead of "more primitive" non-ferrous gear. That makes sense for most races, at least purely terrestrial ones, but it has some, ah, unintended consequences that you're feeling right now... ><



Apropos nothing whatsoever, I probably should not feel so pleased with myself for the abominations to be found in the next NationGen patch, but I just can't help it. Behold the fruits of my having randomly happened upon a Wikipedia article on insular dwarfism in extinct pachyderms:

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: kingkev on February 21, 2017, 03:01:25 am
I need those elephants in my game now, please tell me they have tiny trample.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 21, 2017, 03:17:16 am
Can you just make a Version where Cavunits are rideables, including previously generated, i.e. a longdead on a giant on a nightmare with a hobburg as a head...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 21, 2017, 06:43:06 am
Btw, my nation has two exactly the same units with no difference in stats, weapons, amor or whatsoever. I have seen it from the first moment but forgot to mention it
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 21, 2017, 10:17:33 am
Without looking: nope, they totally have sprites with minute differences in the shade of their hats or cloaks or somesuch.

It's a known issue with how NG generates unit variants, but it hasn't been dealt with.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 21, 2017, 10:51:24 am
Without looking: nope, they totally have sprites with minute differences in the shade of their hats or cloaks or somesuch.

It's a known issue with how NG generates unit variants, but it hasn't been dealt with.
If the program at least guaranteed that the differences would be fairly striking, it could make for some interesting RP possibilities, at least.

"There has always been a competition between the Blue Feather Swordsmen and the Red Feather Swordsmen, trying to see who could perform the most valorous acts, survive the most extreme odds, and drench the lands with the most enemy blood..."
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 21, 2017, 12:27:01 pm
6 more hours left.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 22, 2017, 05:08:01 pm
I think a 30 hour hosting period isn't viable anymore.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 22, 2017, 06:13:24 pm
I think a 30 hour hosting period isn't viable anymore.
Huh? I think 30 hours is plenty.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on February 22, 2017, 06:15:42 pm
I think a 30 hour hosting period isn't viable anymore.
Huh? I think 30 hours is plenty.

It is. But we need to extend every day the last few turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 22, 2017, 06:16:39 pm
I think it should be shorter - let the singleton we're waiting on miss their turns, I say!

Seriously though, we're still only at turn 15 - this shouldn't be taking crazy long yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 22, 2017, 06:30:06 pm
I think a 30 hour hosting period isn't viable anymore.
Huh? I think 30 hours is plenty.

It is. But we need to extend every day the last few turns.
Let's not?  ::)
I mean the turns will run automatically if we all submit, so there's really no need say it's "30 hours", if you mean "30, but really 42 if someone doesn't submit theirs". We should still do extensions, but only by request. People have phones, and computers at their jobs (or school) as a backup- if there is a real problem they can get a message to us.
Tell you what, let's do a vote on it, that poll at the top is not being used anyway.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 22, 2017, 08:30:14 pm
Actually, I've done unrequested extensions, but they haven't been needed yet.

What I would recommend (as has been mentioned before) is doing double turns if possible when you're the last person outstanding.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 22, 2017, 11:33:35 pm
Wow rude. (You know who you are).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on February 23, 2017, 03:13:28 am
I agree with AlStar, make it shorter.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 23, 2017, 09:51:22 am
I would, personally, love a shorter interval, but
We don't have it set to 30 hours because turns take long, but because it's "a day, plus a small safety margin". We're all in different time zones, and some of us (again, not me) only really have 1 time a day when they can do turns. Of course it sucks that you have to wait so long to make such a short turn, but that second part will pick up within the month.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 23, 2017, 10:16:39 am
I think 30 hours is fine as is, but with this much time, you always have a way of requesting an extension, and it doesn't feel like we're at a point where the stakes are so high as to give them out preemptively.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 23, 2017, 11:07:35 am
unrequested extensions <...> haven't been needed yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 23, 2017, 11:30:34 am
Shadowgandor already staled. We might be looking at another stale possibly since they haven't asked for an extension. Also That post was before the latest turn, where Shadowgandor staled.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 23, 2017, 11:41:00 am
Ok, maybe they have been needed. But they haven't been granted, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 23, 2017, 01:19:32 pm
I'd prefer 48 hours myself, as there are evenings where I don't get the chance to play Dominions.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 23, 2017, 06:35:50 pm
This early in the game I'm absolutely not willing to go beyond 36h. In another week, maybe. But we're not even done with year two...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 23, 2017, 08:08:55 pm
I'd prefer 48 hours myself, as there are evenings where I don't get the chance to play Dominions.
Turns are short right now, can you get up 10 minutes early and send in your turn?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 23, 2017, 10:16:57 pm
By request, pushing 24h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 24, 2017, 12:28:20 am
For me there's no difference between 24 or 36 hours, as I'm working + commuting for 11 to 14 hours a day, but it's fine. I'll try to send a turn every day but if I miss one then eh, shit happens :p
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 24, 2017, 10:52:07 am
By request, pushing the deadline back by 24h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 25, 2017, 02:27:10 pm
Hey, not sure if I've already missed a turn, but if not, I'll need some more time. I ended up in the hospital and only got internet access just now. I'll be out by Monday. Apologies for delaying the game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on February 25, 2017, 02:31:15 pm
Dang. Get better soon alstar. That royally sucks.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 25, 2017, 04:51:25 pm
...so... pushed 48h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 27, 2017, 01:55:08 pm
Bloody lying doctors. I am so sorry, but I'm going to need another 24 hours. After telling me that I'd be able to leave right after my surgery, they suddenly changed their tune to "oh, you need another day of IV antibiotics."

As a side note, I had better be the only one left - I want to play two turns back-to-back as soon as I get home.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 27, 2017, 03:42:55 pm
I'll push another 24h.

And yes, Tsihor, ignore the extension and git yer turn in!  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 27, 2017, 04:41:24 pm
Yes, USEC_OFFICER, you better be in a disaster zone of some kind, because Alstar is in the hospital and even they managed to contact the rest of us.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 28, 2017, 02:15:28 pm
So I can build kelp fortresses, but I don't actually have any recruitment options there. While not absolutely needed, I feel like any amphibian troop/commander choices should be available there.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on February 28, 2017, 02:44:24 pm
So I can build kelp fortresses, but I don't actually have any recruitment options there.
oh, yeah! Same here (did it in a solo test game, and was quite disappointed)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 28, 2017, 07:04:47 pm
That's not getting added until/unless (presumably until) water nation support gets added. The next patch will probably have another brick in the foundation of that particular edifice (merrow, and maaaaaaybe even a Daoine Lir theme for Sidhe nations), even if it will technically be no closer to the underlying engine bits being coded than now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on February 28, 2017, 07:17:25 pm
How do you pick what gets added in? Is it literally just what interests you at that moment, or do you have some kind of roadmap you're working through?

Also, how do you pick what are valid mounts/chariot animals? Do you just go through the [animal] tag?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on February 28, 2017, 09:26:30 pm
There's some poking in the inspector to get ideas, but there's more skimming over sprites... and yes, it's mostly whimsy. I have my old to-do list (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/issues/334), but the last several things I've added appeared nowhere on it. Honestly, my normal decision-making process involves rooting around in a sprite dump to find some specific image I can use for a particular purpose, spotting something completely unrelated that would be interesting/ridiculous to add, and dropping everything to go off on a tangent doing that. E.g., a few weeks ago I stumbled across a Wikipedia article on insular dwarfism among extinct pachyderms (don't ask me how or why; I no longer have the slightest idea); NG now has pygmy elephants and mammoths (as well as dwarf elephants) for pygmies, hoburgs, and vaettir.

On the minus side, lack of planning and running on interest rather than structured plans means I've got a bunch of in-progress additions that have never been finished. On the plus side, I've kept adding other things because I'm usually at least reasonably enthusiastic about whatever garbage I'm cobbling together at any given moment, so I've managed to add a lot without burning out on the project.

[That's all in reference to my part in the project, which is mostly just content dev (though coding happens occassionally). The Issues page (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/issues) of the Github repository is probably about as close to the overall project having a roadmap, and that's mostly just a pile of ideas or things one of us thinks should be addressed, maybe, eventually...]
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 01, 2017, 09:25:27 pm
So unless I'm reading this wrong, was the plan "convince someone to backstab their neighbor so you could make common cause with that neighbor by helping repulse the invasion you yourself were entirely responsible for requesting and instigating"? That's pretty impressively weaselly...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on March 02, 2017, 12:56:52 am
The tenth layer of Machiavellian political theory?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 02, 2017, 02:08:16 am
The tenth layer of Machiavellian political theory?
I'm fairly sure that's Byzantine Diplomacy 101.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 02, 2017, 04:08:14 am
If u guyz are at war you should bitch about it in here, I don't have scouting around yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on March 02, 2017, 04:16:53 am
Well, e albright and mini are attacking me on both sides as aggressors. So knowing E Albright has a situation is a good thing. Not very sure about mini. That's about it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on March 02, 2017, 06:06:48 am
muh opsec
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 02, 2017, 08:43:03 am
I suppose the fairly obvious lesson is that if a bunch of fork-tongued lizards come to you talking first of partitioning a neighbor because they're weak, and then after you hedge a bit and avoid making any specific commitments, they conveniently return in their next message claiming to have received an ultimatum from them... it would do well to be more suspicious even if you do have political grievances with the local goblin tribes...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on March 02, 2017, 09:30:10 am
Oh, you're talking about that. Yeah, that's not some massive plot, that's me fucking up and not paying attention to the difference between a purple triangle and a purple rectangle.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 02, 2017, 11:17:27 am
That reminds me - how robust is the flag generator? Because I feel like it's not quite up to the level that it should be. Too many nations have virtually identical flags, with only minor color or banner topping differences between them.

How tough would it be to throw in some more symbols? (I suppose a related question - how are they generated? Is it just a random flag image + random color + random topper? Or does it actually try to combine multiple images into a flag, if possible?)

What I'd love is something like Lands of Lords crest generator, since it seems to be able to come up with a bunch of unique icons.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 02, 2017, 05:39:46 pm
Flags are another thing I've been meaning to pick at - they haven't had much attention in the last couple of years.

A flag consists of a baseflag (V, |vv| or |vvv|) in a given color, a recolored pattern (which would be various stripes, quarterings, etc., to include the possibility of none), a fixed-palate midicon (of which there really need to be more - there's only 8 ATM, plus none), a fixed-palate topicon (if there was no midicon; choice of 18 or none), and an optional border (which are all the same except for color).

All these graphics can be found in NG's /graphics/flags/ folder. There's also some raw flag dump graphics I threw in there long ago with sterling Good Intentions to work on them really soon here. It wouldn't be hard to throw in some more stuff, either more involved divisions of the field and/or lines of division, ordinaries and subordinaries, or charges (i.e., color patterns, shapes, and icons). Digging through really basic heraldry references make me wanna mess with this again; there's some stuff that wouldn't be hard to do but could look rather striking. Plus, ofc, there's the more-recent Dominions flags to be cannibalized, sigh.

But long answer short, it'd be extremely easy to add stuff. You just need to add the new graphics to /graphics/flags/foo (where foo is the flag part in question), and then add a definition in the corresponding /data/flags/foo.txt file...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 03, 2017, 01:15:19 am
Since I'm the one being discontent, I thought I'd step up to the plate: (results of me generating 50 nations and picking ones that use my images)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

link to new images: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtlhhbna41kf1ii/newpatterns.rar?dl=0
link to updated .txt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v5zsmh6xr2p8nh/recolors.txt?dl=0

Only 12 images so far (4 for each of the three bases), but this seems like the kind of thing I wouldn't mind doing a bunch more of.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 03, 2017, 01:35:29 pm
On a technical level - if we ignore some of them being off-center *twitch* - they look fine, but I'm not sure they fit cleanly with NG's sorta-heraldric-ish look-and-feel for flags.

Having said that, re-post them over here so they can get a fuller opinion cast upon them: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1619
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 03, 2017, 02:47:52 pm
On a technical level - if we ignore some of them being off-center *twitch* - they look fine, but I'm not sure they fit cleanly with NG's sorta-heraldric-ish look-and-feel for flags.

Having said that, re-post them over here so they can get a fuller opinion cast upon them: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1619
Heh, that'll show me for throwing them together at like 1 AM - not anything that can't be fixed by nudging them a couple pixels in the right direction.

For what it's worth, I actually grabbed those designs from a site that was showing examples of heraldic symbols (although I just grabbed the easiest four that I found)... now, if they match with what's currently there - well, that's a different (yet entirely legitimate) question.

These were basically just a proof-of-concept - I'll revisit them when I get out of work. Probably scrap a couple that didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped.

It's surprisingly hard to get good detail into less than 64x64 pixels.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 03, 2017, 04:26:26 pm
In re: 64x64, I feel your pain. It is soooooooo miserable.

I also feel your pain in re: the folly of doing anything like this in the middle of the night. It's possibly you've felt my pain in this regard in the past, as it's been one of the most fruitful sources of mind-numbingly stupid bugs in NationGen.

The main thing I'd say is that it's probably best to avoid anything too detailed as far as ordinaries go. With as little space as we have, really complicated geometric patterns will be hard to get right, even if you can manage to get charges to look decent at that size since those you can shade, etc.

The most straightforward stuff (aside from unused Dom4 graphics) that I've been looking to bash into NG's flags were from Wikipedia - it seemed like there would be workable imagery that could translate to our itsy-bitsy sprites, but could still be interesting and/or distinctive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_(heraldry)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinary_(heraldry)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_(heraldry)

(Ofc, I haven't actually tried to cram any of this onto tiny sprites, yet...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 03, 2017, 10:59:46 pm
I bumped hosting to 36h (which means a 6h delay from the originally-scheduled host time this turn, though that may make no difference), but I'd like to keep it there for the next two years at a minimum.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 04, 2017, 08:23:40 am
Well, that didn't work out so well: Hired elephant mercenaries to trample my enemies. So what does the enemy spellcasting AI bring out? Enrage!

I lost more troops to my own elephants than to enemy action.  :'(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on March 04, 2017, 08:47:16 am
Hi guys, sorry for stalling so many times this week. It's been quite a hectic week and I keep forgetting to send a turn. However, I need another 24h before I can do my turn as I'm not home at this moment
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 04, 2017, 09:12:40 am
Hi guys, sorry for stalling so many times this week. It's been quite a hectic week and I keep forgetting to send a turn. However, I need another 24h before I can do my turn as I'm not home at this moment
Turn 20 kinda already ran, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 04, 2017, 09:21:30 am
...though FWIW, there's something like 33h until the next is scheduled to host.

--

So the idea is to bring peace to your corner of the world by going to war with three nations at once and giving them a whole lot of common cause against a suddenly-huge enemy? That's a bold move, Ukubabbum, let's see how it plays out for you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 04, 2017, 01:06:44 pm
I'm totally bringing peace ; ) - also all those wars need to be fueld somehowl. 4 enemys or 5, since some of the armys that where attacking you ran into my dudes.

Very little of me is "suddenly huge" - but, the harsh truth is that I control nearly all the wastelands on this goddamm map, for all that is worth (about 12 income/province actually - then add to that my death 3 scales and I'm basically not worth attacking back)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 04, 2017, 01:18:07 pm
...that's a very odd claim to make. "On turn 21 I control 25 or so provinces (with maybe a paltry quarter of that being wasteland), am aggressively expanding, and the longer I hold those provinces the more all of them are going to rot because I took toxic 'I must blitz everyone' scales... but there's TOTALLY no reason to want to attack me..."

Somehow I think the self-proclaimed August Master doth protest well more than a little too much...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 04, 2017, 01:23:02 pm
Fine, I'm not at war with anyone but you, nor do want to - and only you since you attacked other nations very early and that made you what you think I am - big.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 04, 2017, 01:55:35 pm
Riiiiiiiiiight. At my peak, I had less than you did before you blitzed me this past turn - and I had a similar proportion of the wastes you so loudly lamented. Your efforts to downplay your large size and aggressive expansion is currently entirely hinging on you portraying yourself as a decent little guy whose backstabbing is really standing up to a despicable big bully and not just gross opportunism. ... I fear to say you really, truly do protest too much, and anyone with any scouts in the region (or who's been on the receiving end of your "diplomacy") isn't going to buy that.

You're quite plainly the aggressor here, and you're trying quite hard to distract everyone with your tiny fig leaf in order to trick them into forgetting that you hold noticeably more territory and thrones than anyone else. To say nothing of how you've snaked your territory through your neighbors' borders so them "being at peace with you" is just another way of saying you're strangling them while you go from "big but exposed" to "huge with an enclosed homeland" before casually swatting them.

So yeah, no: when a 20-ish-province nation grabs 5 provinces from a 15-ish-province nation in one turn, it actually isn't a not-big nation attacking a big nation. Neither math nor geopolitics work like that...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 04, 2017, 05:33:12 pm
You used your gold to buy mercs and attack Teleboda - and didn't invest into PD as far as I can tell - why not exploit your aggression?

You are not losing this war, you didn't even fight it yet. You can ask others to fight it for you after we had a actual army-army fight.

All the thread Propaganda makes me think I hit at just the right time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 04, 2017, 09:31:44 pm
Oh, if only you knew. There's more than a little sardonic humor in knowing the other side of the things you've been self-servingly speculating about...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 05, 2017, 11:21:46 am
That's not very good trash talk.  :-\

So I would like to declare that enemies of the Illithids will drown in blood. And burnt grey matter!  Also, maybe, lakes...  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 05, 2017, 03:18:55 pm
Crocodile tears more then trash talk, Albright is doing fine.

However, very fitting for a glamour nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 05, 2017, 09:42:17 pm
The person who saw my armies in Teleboda vanish as they started taking back their territory, and immediately started preening self-righteously about Ukuian nobility and nonthreatening character while keeping keeping Teleboda from "capitalizing" on their "success" by ninja'ing T-Bod's former territory before they could take it back... is now going on about deception and croc tears? Really? I mean, you've already shown yourself to have no sense of shame whatsoever, so I guess I really shouldn't expect anything else.

I assume you bring up my being a glamour nation mostly to remind yourself, because frankly it looks an awful lot like your birdbrains forgot I was one. Sorry you're having to fight a war instead of stealing Teleboda's kill like you thought you were going to...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 06, 2017, 03:39:06 am
Alright now its trash talk - then again its just a game and I can't even connect all those nation-names to forum users yet without looking it up each time  ::) -
Also, aren't your armys always stealthy, so why would I see them vanish? My scouting network isn't that big/good I only heard from people that you are expanding rapidly and the ingame information supported that mostly...

Edit: While we are updating the OP, add this for easy checking on turn progress?

Game Name: Bay12GamesRound426a (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound426a)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 06, 2017, 03:42:24 am
Yeah, that is annoying.

Albright, could you put this in the OP?
edit: here's a better one:
(http://i.imgur.com/iWkAVGk.png)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 06, 2017, 08:26:52 am
Get your story straight - did I overrun Teleboda with mercenaries (scary! nefarious! I mean, MERCENARIES!!!!), or did I do it with national troops?

And it was trash talk before, but it was all flowing one way and was laced with effusive self-aggrandiziment from the largest nation in the game - who's got themself a nice little (okay, not LITTLE) corner carved out - trying to paint their opportunistic aggression as civic-minded nobility. For the record, prior to my counter-invasion last turn, you had never been invaded and were around half again as big as me (who had by that point been on the receiving end of 3 unprovoked invasions and one very provoked one, TYVM). But yeah, sure, being larger (with 3x the thrones, let's not forget), more secure in your homeland, more aggressive, more manipulative, and less honest definitely makes you neither stronger than me nor aggressive nor expanding rapidly.

Also, ya might wanna avoid piling on the trash talk yourself if "it's only a game". Again, be decisive!

Cry me another river of crocodile tears, you glorious saint, you.

--

Main post updated.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 06, 2017, 09:27:14 am
I dunno man, Score graphs are off, but you seem to know everything better anyway - you where also the least friendly of all nations next to me and the only nation of those I knew that attacked someone else, so I'd most likly make the same choice again given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 06, 2017, 09:55:59 am
Well duh, of course you would. You saw what looked like my offensive in Teleboda folding, so you figured you could easily kill-steal a 50% increase to your empire size and secure your southern flank while spinning it as "not aggressive" and "not expansionist" so as to diplomatically mask your quite-aggressive expansionism until it was far too late for anyone to do anything about it. And now you're sore because I made everything publicly diplomatic instead of silently "dueling" you, so you're having more trouble enacting the divide and conquer you'd planned.

And FWIW, if I was the least friendly of your neighbors, the rest of them must have been offering you gifts while kissing your pinky ring.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 06, 2017, 12:17:13 pm
They didn't attack anyone ; )
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on March 06, 2017, 08:41:08 pm
Sadly that seems to be changing. I sent you gems many many turns ago and still not receiving my agreed item, have no choice but to come take one, as I hear you have enough to equip them.
Let it be known on this 22nd moon, the high moon council declares war on your unholy death domain.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 07, 2017, 03:35:57 am
As I said in the PM, I wasn't aware of any missed payments and re-checked the turns after our last pm exchange on the topic. Even as you raid my lands I'll send you the item if you did send the gems to me - maybe I send it to the wrong nation, maybe you send the gems to the wrong person, maybe I forgot. Bay12 trades are binding, regardless of circumstances around it.Not that one? skulltalisman is a good reason to war it up

For those unaware, TheSpinth/RexMundi and Teshro/E. Albright are attacking Ukubabbum/thtblovesdf - and they are doing very well at it, too - stealthy armys and a straight forward beatdown army are a good combo. E. Albright rocking that 30-provinces-large status ; )
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 07, 2017, 09:24:57 am
See, when I do diplomacy and talk about threats, I tend to be accurate. So even if I can be a weasel who'll stab you in the back eventually (because this is Dominions, and if you're playing to win the only way you're not going to jump each other sooner or later is if you're on a disciple team), I'm still a generally trustworthy weasel.

I have 14 provinces, not 30. Which is exactly one less province than I had three turns ago when you decided I looked vulnerable and bit off more than you could swallow with your teeming hordes of E9 spamulet indy priests (incidentally, you really can't complain about your scouting; you made a choice to invest in temples and priests to rapidly expand instead of scouts to get to know the world). Those ARE strong, cheap, and clever, BTW, but they're also one-dimensional and have a very early expiration date as full-blown armies before they get regulated to support status.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 07, 2017, 12:17:16 pm
hordes of E9 spamulet indy priests
What is an E9? Can't be "Earth Magic Level 9" because that can't be recruited anywhere in the game, and it probably shouldn't be "encumbrance 9", unless they are heavily armored warrior-monks.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 07, 2017, 12:29:45 pm
Earth Magic Level 9 bless + spamulets on indy priests which (being indy) can be recruited in something like half or so of MA provinces if you build a temple first.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 09, 2017, 05:27:39 am
8 hours until the turn processes. Albright and USEC OFFICER, you may want to verify you sent in your turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 09, 2017, 05:10:23 pm
Scouts report 400 troops... do you think you brought enough guys with you?  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 10, 2017, 04:49:33 am
The two players attacking me together barly get to 400 after a few battles, so who is slinging 400 around :O ?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 10, 2017, 06:39:40 am
Scouts report 400 troops... do you think you brought enough guys with you?  ::)
I guess not. Better bring up the other 400  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 10, 2017, 04:37:44 pm
Pushing hosting 24h for my own sake. I very possibly won't need all that, but I can't tell right now. Sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on March 11, 2017, 09:50:04 pm
Welcome to all my new neighbors!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on March 12, 2017, 03:27:27 am
Saying this for now, but I may need an extension. Going to be busy all day today.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 13, 2017, 12:51:10 am
I'll push 24h, since 12h might be weird timing-wise if I make possibly unwarranted assumptions about timezones. Get it in as soon as you can, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 13, 2017, 03:16:46 am
As my Capital falls under siege, we make sure the last messengers inform everyone that Thespinth can not be trusted.

(PS: Whoever sends the most funny ingame-joke, i.e. in reference to ingame lore gets my shit afterwards, should I fall fully)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on March 13, 2017, 03:25:46 am
Sending turn in right now, thanks for the extension.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 13, 2017, 06:56:33 am
Sending turn in right now, thanks for the extension.
Fun fact: if we haven't moved the deadline, you would still have made it with ~6 hours to spare.
That is to say, thank you for being so prompt, unlike other people who didn't even request an extension.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: chaoticag on March 13, 2017, 08:25:35 am
I figured to ask for one anyway, since well, I had to attend an all day exausting event and I might have needed some more hours in case I just got roped into something soon as I woke up. I didin't and so I was able to get things done on time at least.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 13, 2017, 12:43:22 pm
For my part, I tend to routinely engage in some very bad habits when setting delays as admin - they can probably be summed up as "liking round numbers" and "not finalizing my own turn when others ask for extensions so I 'have some skin in the game' and am motivated to keep an eye on things". On the plus (or possibly "plus") side, another bad habit I have is feeling extra motivated to do semi-related things when there's something I arguably should be doing, which last night meant pale one nations got ancient olmspawn added, olm got implemented as a stand-alone secondary-only race, and I got far less sleep than I should have...

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 13, 2017, 06:18:47 pm
Hm... I have an interesting bug (probably not with nationGen) one of my commanders (Takultu, 8th from the top) is in the hall of fame but he hasn't got a heroic ability (red star thing.) Has this happened to anyone else? Ever?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 13, 2017, 06:37:53 pm
If you're willing to give out that info... what's the unit chassis (you can hit ctrl-i in the unit description window if you don't know the monster id off the top of your head)? There's a specific command to exclude commanders from the HoF entirely, but I wanna say it hasn't been since Dom3 that you could have units in the HoF w/o getting an ability...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 13, 2017, 06:46:48 pm
I will PM it to you for bug-fixing.

And I would like to take this opportunity again, to stress how awesome it is to do 2 turns in a row, when you are the last person. It's better than crack, they say [citation needed][who?].
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 13, 2017, 08:10:18 pm
Okay, yes, that's a Dominions thing. I'll PM you specifics.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on March 15, 2017, 01:05:04 am
Empty, are you looking for an enemy?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on March 15, 2017, 01:52:31 am
Not really.
I just want every province around my capitol without having to pay money every turn for it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 15, 2017, 09:10:59 am
Never rains but it pours  ::)

If you could... I dunno... fight each other, so that I don't have to deal with you all separately, that'd be great!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 15, 2017, 12:34:29 pm
Never rains but it pours  ::)

If you could... I dunno... fight each other, so that I don't have to deal with you all separately, that'd be great!
Stop taking my provinces, then well talk.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 15, 2017, 02:23:46 pm
Um, those are MY provinces that I'm re-taking, sir. I fully remember building that castle before you started flying your flag over it.

Edit: I can't believe that I'd even have to say that. Seriously, the gall of someone who stepped all over words of friendship to stab me while my back was turned dares to claim that I'm the aggressor here.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 15, 2017, 04:21:07 pm
Seriously, the gall of someone who stepped all over words of friendship to stab me while my back was turned dares to claim that I'm the aggressor here.
You have literally, not said a word to me before that quip about how my army was too small. Not mention before trying to take provinces so close to my capital.  ???
So, as much as it pains me (which is not at all), you can go drown in a blood lake.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 15, 2017, 04:32:54 pm
I honestly have no idea where your capital even is - I was just trying to take a bunch of water provinces while they were still under indy control. I certainly hadn't made any further moves aboveground since I took those two provinces.

Not that it matters, we'll get rid of your hordes soon enough.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 15, 2017, 05:36:07 pm
So, as much as it pains me (which is not at all), you can go drown in a blood lake.  :P

For someone who was critiquing trash talk upthread, I must say you disappoint me. Can't we at least have a little more personalized flair? Is it too much to ask, fer'instance, that instead of generic blood lakes you swear to drown them in a lake of monkey blood?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 15, 2017, 06:20:40 pm
That was a humorous callback to this bit:
enemies of the Illithids will drown in blood. And burnt grey matter!  Also, maybe, lakes...

How about "we'll beat you so bad they will call you Dark Blue Ones"?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Or "We'll go Illincoln on you ass!"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And of course "yo' momma's so fat, she has Unequaled Obesity" (I know it's very general, but I love it  :P)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 16, 2017, 03:52:38 am
Each turn is a reminder that fighting stealth nations is hell.

At least your sidekick is dieing and fighting properly - the 3rd party that joined the bashing (Tzicapan) is even nice enough to just use one doomstack.
3v1 bring it on
4v1 if we count everyone that attacked me
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on March 16, 2017, 12:05:52 pm
Each turn is a reminder that fighting stealth nations is hell.

At least your sidekick is dieing and fighting properly - the 3rd party that joined the bashing (Tzicapan) is even nice enough to just use one doomstack.
3v1 bring it on
4v1 if we count everyone that attacked me

I can't remember attacking you? I do forget stuff though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: RexMundi on March 16, 2017, 12:07:02 pm
How do you not attack him but justify attacking me, for the land he owned?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on March 16, 2017, 01:40:56 pm
In my defense. You were on my lawn.

Also.
I'm in dire need of water gems.
Willing to trade a few fire and a ton of nature gems 1 on 1 for them.
Also willing to trade 6-7ish of my pearls for 10 water gems in a couple of turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 16, 2017, 02:59:41 pm
Not that it matters, we'll get rid of your hordes soon enough.
I know we technically "lost", but how did you enjoy your meeting with a crack Illithid division? Next time we'll make sure take down more of your cowardly larvae instead of killing your innocent thralls.  8)

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 16, 2017, 06:29:18 pm
Given that your troops cost between 40% and 55% more gold than mine do, and you lost about a dozen more than I did (not including Zotzs)... I'll absolutely take "wins" like this.

Given the smiley, I was horribly worried that my army movement got intercepted and defeated in detail (a distinct possibility when trying to coordinate armies from three different territories!)

Oh, and Mini/Sessa - still feeling good about trying to invade me now?  :P Relying on fireballs is dangerous when your mages can't see in the dark...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 16, 2017, 06:44:35 pm
Given that your troops cost between 40% and 55% more gold than mine do, and you lost about a dozen more than I did (not including Zotzs)... I'll absolutely take "wins" like this.
Come down to the lake floor and let's do a rematch.  :D

P.S. You know, trash-talk aside, I'm super impressed with how how you beat back 3 invasions at the same time.
P.P.S. ... so I look forward to eating (cooking? melding? burning? whatever illithids do) your brain.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Mini on March 17, 2017, 02:52:01 am
Oh, and Mini/Sessa - still feeling good about trying to invade me now?  :P Relying on fireballs is dangerous when your mages can't see in the dark...
Just means I need more fireballs. Eventually I will have so many the sun is blotted out even on the surface, and my mages will have to figure it out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 18, 2017, 11:48:53 am
Your giant larvae are no more (well, a platoon of them is no more). And I didn't even have to kill any slaves this time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 18, 2017, 01:26:49 pm
Looks like I got a stale? I did a turn and send it in afaik... welp...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 18, 2017, 02:10:28 pm
I strongly recommend always checking back for the "turn received" confirmation email, or making sure the website has your turn listed as turned in. I've seen too many sent turns not get there to trust blindly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Shadowgandor on March 19, 2017, 07:55:09 am
Can I get a 12h extension please? I wasn't available to send a turn this weekend :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 19, 2017, 11:21:55 am
Pushed 12h, so it's now ~0600 UTC.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on March 20, 2017, 03:44:21 pm
Could I get a 6 hour extension?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 20, 2017, 04:54:37 pm
Pushed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 20, 2017, 09:04:16 pm
Yet again, brave Illithid citizen-warriors take the field only to find themselves faced with Atlantean slaves. Do thanes of Kathan have no honor, that they will not fight their own wars?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: E. Albright on March 20, 2017, 09:13:18 pm
They suffer from a poor education system, and a lack of good role models for their children. Some quality time with a couple of companies of patriotic vanara volunteers should show them the value of the former while straight-up providing the latter.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 20, 2017, 09:20:10 pm
Honestly, it's more that they're better armored then their 'masters'. I'd much rather field a bunch of guys wearing plate (even if they're 2 less strength), then a bunch of guys wearing scale (at +1 morale).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: Empty on March 21, 2017, 01:32:06 pm
Thanks for the extension.
Looks like I wasn't the only one needing it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 21, 2017, 02:25:35 pm
Looks that way, yes.
So, USEC, Rexmundi, kingkev and our gracious host, Albright, might want to make sure they sent in their turns (it sometimes happens that they don't process)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 21, 2017, 05:40:51 pm
Yeah thats why I pm people all the time over in 25, happens so easily - really wish lammaserver would allow to set 2-3 reminders, like [Yes, Mail me with I'm the last one that didn't submit a turn]
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 21, 2017, 09:12:18 pm
Good news and bad news: it looks like I might be away from internet for an extended time starting next week. I will keep you updated, but I'll probably have to go AI this weekend.
This is excellent news for Kathan. Bad news for any allies I leave behind. And mildly nice news for everyone else, since less players should mean faster average turn length.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: AlStar on March 21, 2017, 09:30:35 pm
Perhaps better to find a sub? As far as I can tell, you seem to be in a strong position overall.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (underway)
Post by: a1s on March 21, 2017, 10:45:39 pm
Perhaps better to find a sub? As far as I can tell, you seem to be in a strong position overall.
D'oh! I keep forgetting there are other people interested in this game.  :P
Can we update the OP?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (looking for sub)
Post by: DFNewb on March 22, 2017, 03:01:57 pm
I can sub in!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (looking for sub)
Post by: E. Albright on March 22, 2017, 04:01:31 pm
'Kay, get the map and mods from the first page, mess around a bit to figure out the abomination you're inheriting (K'narwa), consult with a1s if you so wish, and PM me an email addy. a1s, lemme know when you're ready to hand off; I'd recommend next turn at the earliest, but as you please.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Shadowgandor on March 23, 2017, 02:36:47 am
Could I get a 12h extension again? Sorry, forgot to send my turn yesterday :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (looking for sub)
Post by: a1s on March 23, 2017, 03:16:51 am
a1s, lemme know when you're ready to hand off; I'd recommend next turn at the earliest, but as you please.
Now, I guess. That way I can answer some questions if they arise.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on March 23, 2017, 10:50:28 am
Eww. So we had A LOT of stales, but we have enough wars in progress that rolling back is probably bad. If the hosting deadline had fallen at a different time of day, I probably would have seen the stales coming and pushed it back, but I was, well, asleep. [As I've mentioned before, knowingly waiting to submit my turn until really close to the deadline is a bad admin habit, but this is essentially the sort of thing that encourages me to do it...]

Do we want to just go ahead and make hosting intervals 48h?

Also, DFNewb swapped in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 23, 2017, 11:33:24 am
All you need to know is that RexMundi can't be trusted ; )

48 h seems fine

E: I'm kinda happy all my (former) provinces are wastelands with death 3 and disease spreading sites, may your armys continue to rot as they hide.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on March 24, 2017, 01:50:52 pm
Sorry guys, I'll make sure not to stale again
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: chaoticag on March 24, 2017, 02:37:59 pm
I have no idea how I staled. In fact, I was pretty sure I got my turn in. This just leaves me a bit confused, but it could be I accidentally sent in Round 25's turn in twice and never noticed it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on March 24, 2017, 02:44:17 pm
I've got fire gems that are currently sitting unused in my treasury - willing to trade 1:1 for death gems or 1:2 for water gems (still a steal at the 1:4 converting them by hand gets you!)

edit: Hmm... alternatively, what's the buy-in cost for getting level 1 in a magic? 60 gems? I wonder...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on March 24, 2017, 05:20:35 pm
50 gems, actually.

And chaoticag, I'll say the same thing I said to Thtb: make sure you get the confirmation email and/or see the game page update to make sure your turn is in...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 25, 2017, 08:43:28 am
Well at least there are plenty of stalls going around this round to keep it somewhat fair, eh?

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound426a&action=showstales
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Empty on March 27, 2017, 04:01:36 pm
Stalers gonna stale.
Watcha gonna do aboot it.

I'm still looking to trade nature gems for water or death gems.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 28, 2017, 02:31:38 am
If you want to avoid a stale, PM them ; ) - gets the turns done faster, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on March 29, 2017, 09:29:00 am
Feels good when PD manages to kill off something on its own - especially when the army that attacked doesn't have anywhere to retreat to.

Separate-but-somewhat-related-thought: Man, I often forget just how vicious large swarms of the unarmored fish-men with nets can be.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on March 29, 2017, 10:59:54 am
AlStar, just as an FYI, I started the process of working your flag stuff into the NG repository. It's not done because I have the attention span of a fruit fly, and "more stuff for ancient pale ones", "ancient olmspawn", "olms", and "kappa" happened to appear to be... um.... let's go with "shinier"... over the last couple of weeks. It's still worming its way in, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on March 29, 2017, 12:00:51 pm
AlStar, just as an FYI, I started the process of working your flag stuff into the NG repository. It's not done because I have the attention span of a fruit fly, and "more stuff for ancient pale ones", "ancient olmspawn", "olms", and "kappa" happened to appear to be... um.... let's go with "shinier"... over the last couple of weeks. It's still worming its way in, though.
As long as it makes its way in before our next Nationgen game, I'm content.

Edit: By the way, something I've been meaning to mention - my nation appears to have some uncastable spells - specifically, Rhuax Pact and Barathrus Pact "can only be cast at Roots of the Earth." I've got a Stone of Water and a City of the Divine, but no Roots of the Earth.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Mini on March 29, 2017, 11:08:40 pm
That'd be because they were originally Agartha's spells, and they start with that site.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 30, 2017, 10:35:11 am
This is why I hate (fair) early game wars, if its a 1v1 its really hard to finish someone off - or get rid of someone.


Also could someone besides Albright buy some mercs for once, he keeps throwing them at me...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on March 30, 2017, 10:50:39 am
That'd be because they were originally Agartha's spells, and they start with that site.
Sure, but if I can't use them, they shouldn't be on my spell list. Either the spell should be changed so that I can use them (I'd guess by creating a copy of the spell that requires one of my capital's sites), or it should be excluded from the list of "possible nation-specific spells that nationgen can assign."

The spells, they taunt me. I could really use the ability to summon up a bunch of permanent earth elementals.

This is why I hate (fair) early game wars, if its a 1v1 its really hard to finish someone off - or get rid of someone.


Also could someone besides Albright buy some mercs for once, he keeps throwing them at me...
Apropos of nothing, but I'd say we're solidly mid-game: IMO early game ends when (virtually) all independents have been conquered, which is usually around the same time that sleeping gods start waking up (~12 turns).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on March 30, 2017, 12:54:04 pm
Thanks for confirming that those spells have a problem; I've been meaning to test if they worked because it occurred to me a month or so ago that they probably didn't.

Also, yes, this is definitely not early game any more.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Mini on April 01, 2017, 07:08:23 pm
Edit: false alarm.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 03, 2017, 01:15:44 pm
Assassin with Dusk Dagger, Eternal Robe & Skull Talisman vs Commander with Skull Talisman... well that was a silly battle to watch and win.

Edit: I agree with AlStar, but I'm okay with giving up some info to have some fluff.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 04, 2017, 10:32:20 am
The one thing that I dislike about Dominions is that - ideally - you really shouldn't be saying anything until the game's over, when everyone can finally compare notes.

Even something as innocuous as "I hope my upcoming battle goes well" or "this should be an exciting turn" could potentially tip off your opponents into doing something you don't want them to do. Discussing in-depth tactics is right out, as you basically tell everyone else what they should be doing to stop you and/or what you're up to.

It's a shame, since I often have a bunch I'd like to say about my current situation, but by the end of the game, individual turns blend together. I suppose I could keep a log or something... but that seems too much like work.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 04, 2017, 10:33:29 am
I pushed hosting back 12h last night w/o being asked because we were creeping up on the deadline with 5 players outstanding. We're 3h to the new deadline and still have 3 out. I'll push another 12h because we've already had too many stales for my taste, but if we're having trouble with turns can we get some discussion from the affected players?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Mini on April 04, 2017, 10:00:02 pm
Even something as innocuous as "I hope my upcoming battle goes well" or "this should be an exciting turn" could potentially tip off your opponents into doing something you don't want them to do.
Or maybe by giving that little bit of information away (or even lying), you can bait them into doing something you do want them to do.

It's a shame, since I often have a bunch I'd like to say about my current situation, but by the end of the game, individual turns blend together. I suppose I could keep a log or something... but that seems too much like work.  :P
Yeah, it'd be nice if there was a thing that let you step through previous turns, to see what was going on in the past. It'd also be useful for remembering what the plan for various armies was, when turns can sometimes take half a week to get done. Maybe also have a thing sent when a game is done that lifts the fog of war, so everybody could see everything that went on.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on April 04, 2017, 10:22:15 pm
So every game I play of dom 4 seems to update mid game, and I always forget LLama's process.
I just submitted my turn, then booted steam to see there was an update. Do I need to resubmit? And if so do I just resend and it'll wipe the 'old' one I sent?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 04, 2017, 10:33:16 pm
So every game I play of dom 4 seems to update mid game, and I always forget LLama's process.
I just submitted my turn, then booted steam to see there was an update. Do I need to resubmit? And if so do I just resend and it'll wipe the 'old' one I sent?
Llama will either barf on the turn or not. If it doesn't (sends you a message saying the turn's good), don't worry about it.
If it barfs or doesn't reply anything at all, yes, you should probably try updating then resubmitting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on April 04, 2017, 11:15:28 pm
It didn't, thank ye
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 05, 2017, 10:28:43 am
Checking the stales, it looks like we may have scared off DFNewb, our sub for a1s.

I'mma going to blame all the rest of you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 06, 2017, 06:06:35 pm
I would need a 10 hour extension for this turn, please.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 06, 2017, 07:48:02 pm
Pushed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 07, 2017, 05:49:07 pm
Why must caveman provinces be so useless? Their commanders have 10 leadership, the troops cost a ton, and - the worst sin of them all - they don't get a single PD unit until 4, and even at 10 PD you're only bringing a force of 3 dudes.

I mean, sure, PD isn't usually going to stop an invading army, but 4 PD (10g worth) can normally kill at least its cost. I have never seen caveman PD do squat.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 09, 2017, 02:10:02 pm
We need to do something as far as stales go - there's no real balance in terms of what various players are facing at this point.

--

I'm pretty sure that my loss in Nargado was the very image of a Pyrrhic victory. Enjoy your now-E8 quad-Horror-Marked Earth Serpent, Uku - assuming you've got the priests to call it back. And setting aside my mercs (who served their intended purpose), we lost similar values of troops, though you'll have more trouble replacing mages than I will national grunts...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 09, 2017, 08:51:18 pm
We need to do something as far as stales go - there's no real balance in terms of what various players are facing at this point.
I guess the question is: do we look for subs, or force them AI? K'narwa, at least, is probably too far gone to bother with a sub - they've got enough forces that they can still do some annoying guerilla shit (especially to me, although possibly also to  Iedynu and/or Lhong, and maybe to some of the aboveground nations), but I don't think they're going to win, even if you managed to find Sun Tzu to replace the current player.

Oddly, both Iedynu and Lhong staled, which is unusual - usually just the loser in a battle does that... From what I can see, Lhong's not in a good place right now, but Iedynu looks to be in great shape... well, at least until its (as far as I can tell) single giant army of Drake Knights runs into an army prepared with fire resistance (not that I'd know anything about that...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 10, 2017, 08:12:17 am
We need to do something as far as stales go - there's no real balance in terms of what various players are facing at this point.
I guess the question is: do we look for subs, or force them AI? K'narwa, at least, is probably too far gone to bother with a sub - they've got enough forces that they can still do some annoying guerilla shit (especially to me, although possibly also to  Iedynu and/or Lhong, and maybe to some of the aboveground nations), but I don't think they're going to win, even if you managed to find Sun Tzu to replace the current player.

Oddly, both Iedynu and Lhong staled, which is unusual - usually just the loser in a battle does that... From what I can see, Lhong's not in a good place right now, but Iedynu looks to be in great shape... well, at least until its (as far as I can tell) single giant army of Drake Knights runs into an army prepared with fire resistance (not that I'd know anything about that...)

As spoken by those who have never felt the bite of a wyrm.


Sorry for the stale guys, I need to get in the rhythm of checking for Dominions turns again. I keep reading the reminders whenever I'm getting ready to sleep and making sure no agenda changes have occurred for work, but at that time I can't be bothered to get out of bed again. Poor excuse I know, but I'll at least make sure I'll send it in tonight :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Empty on April 10, 2017, 04:04:41 pm
I'll need a 6 hour extention. Been busy with work sadly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 11, 2017, 02:36:16 am
I found horror marks to be absolutly useless (sadly, as I love the concept and idea) on a realistic timeframe - i.e. a earth serpent with 4 horror marks could properly surive at least 50 turns with 0 bodyguards and 0 equipment without dieing. Maybe without more then 1 attack, at least all my testing found it to be silly (i.e. 30 mages all casting horror marks x5, then retreating and the guy doesn't even get attacked until 3 turns later) ...

Anyway, yeah you are right, this was a phyricc victory at best - then again, my prioritys have moved very far away from "victory" at this point, as I'm raiding my own lands to support upkeep and ruin what you guys will take. I'm now more of a thematic area of the map that spews out skull talismans for 1 gem a piece with no commanders to put it on ; ) - I'm also kinda proud of every province that gives less then 10 gold income, those are hard to create without spending gems.

PS: Silent bet, whoever sends me the most gold next turn gets all my dwarven hammers and items when I fall (at least 5 hammers)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 11, 2017, 09:23:25 pm
Ah, darn - the turn ended before I got around to changing it - would anyone have beaten the 1g that I was planning to send?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 12, 2017, 02:36:01 am
The winner is Empty with 10 Gold (as Tzicapa) - he will gain several items, including many from luck events, since I am rocking that luck 3 for quite a while now.

It seems strange, but the gods must have been reading the Thread since I got nearly 2 000 Gold from a event this turn, too....
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Empty on April 13, 2017, 03:34:40 pm
I've sent a message to:
E. Albright
RexMundi
kingkev
USEC_OFFICER
DFNewb

Hope none stale.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on April 13, 2017, 03:35:54 pm
Ty,I'll be posting mine soon ish and I'll jab kev
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 13, 2017, 10:41:14 pm
On the list of "huh, that's a little annoying" - I just realized that my mages can turn into bears... but won't, because they've actually got more HP in their regular caster form, and bears can't cast spells very well, so there's no reason to start them off in the alternate form.

As a possible NationGen suggestion - maybe alternate forms should always have more HP than the caster base?


Also - the first god bites the dust, and it totally wasn't one of the ones I was expecting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 13, 2017, 11:13:43 pm
We've tried to quash HP issues in the past, but haven't done so entirely since we (mostly) used data-based means rather than code-based ones. The big pain is we don't necessarily know what the normal body is going to be, so unless we impose something very rigid like "if shape2HP < shape1HP, set newShape1HP = .4 * (shape1HP + shape2HP) and newShape2HP = .6 * (shape1HP + shape2HP). Which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to do, honestly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: chaoticag on April 14, 2017, 07:50:39 am
Also - the first god bites the dust, and it totally wasn't one of the ones I was expecting.
It happens, I went with magic paths I was not quite sure how to exploit well and landed in a really early two front war. Does mark the first time I flub a game hard enough that I can't make it to the point where everyone loses or we just give up. Also if you weren't expecting it, then either someone else is doing bad or your spy network is not up to snuff.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 14, 2017, 08:35:21 am
Also if you weren't expecting it, then either someone else is doing bad or your spy network is not up to snuff.
Bit of both, really. I've been very focused on the underground.

Also, I'd forgotten that bakemono chiefs have stealth, and could be serving me as scouts all this time.  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: chaoticag on April 14, 2017, 08:39:19 am
Well, hopefully you have the best of luck in your conflicts current and upcoming. I'll likely work on round 25 until that's over then take a break from Dominions for a while I think.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on April 15, 2017, 01:27:35 pm
Hey guys? I get home from work around 630ish my time, and it's hosting around 530ish. Can I talk people out of the smallest 1 hour or more block of extending?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 16, 2017, 09:21:11 am
Well, you got not one but two 6h extensions when I was AFK, but it's still 4h to host with Thespinth unsubmitted...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: RexMundi on April 16, 2017, 12:03:20 pm
Turns out 5:30 means much later than I thought. We were very busy and they wanted me late. Just woke, submitting right now. Sorry to everyone for hogging the sweet double turns this game x.x
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 16, 2017, 07:38:03 pm
What appears to be a bug - my general can equip a bow, yet still has his poisoned obsidian blade.
He does correctly drop his Hoplon shield.

Edit: Another thing - shouldn't my nation have a "Frozen Exemplar" and/or "Water Champion" Commander? It seems like most NationGen nations get a commander version of their sacreds - although I don't know if that's an all-the-time thing or just a possibility.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: E. Albright on April 16, 2017, 07:57:43 pm
Possibility, but not guaranteed. If you have two, you won't ever have commanders for both IIRC.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 17, 2017, 08:57:32 am
It's interesting seeing the different strategies people use for their province defense. Two of my neighbors have the absolute opposite strategies going on - one has never put a single gold piece into it, while the other spends as much as a small castle - apparently on every single province they own.

Trying not to go into crazy detail about my thoughts on the matter, but I will give one piece of information for all the major cheapskates out there: Not spending anything at all opens you up to mass takeovers of your backfield provinces by enemy scouts (not that I'd know anything about that...) - spending even just a single gold means that it'll at least be an even fight (your commander vs the enemy scout), making it so that your attacker (unless they're feeling lucky) will have to either spend gems (for something like a handful of acorns/skull talisman/water bottle) or gold+turns (additional scouts).

Also, having even a single gold invested in a province allows you to see the battle report - a 100% accurate report of what an enemy army has, up to and including what (if any) items or gems are on the commanders and mages.

PD 1 - it's worth it!

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: a1s on April 17, 2017, 09:35:13 am
I'm back.
I won't ask for my spot back (obvi) but I would love to get a PM on the further fate of my nation (K'narwa.)

Edit: I have been informed that my nation is abandoned at the moment. With DFNewb's silent consent, I would like to play out it's final hours.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Empty on April 17, 2017, 02:39:28 pm
Sounds fine to me a1s.

On a related note. I'm heading straight to work from my family place and can't get home till tomorrow after work.
So I'll need around a 3 hour extention.

Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: a1s on April 17, 2017, 02:43:53 pm
I will sell gems for gold (or larger amounts of gems). Most kinds available. PM me for details.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: Empty on April 18, 2017, 01:05:15 pm
Thanks for the extension!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 19, 2017, 08:50:02 am
Darn turn, popping up literally a minute before I was about to leave for work - and you can't just leave it sitting there like that! You've got to at least watch the battles.

I managed to pull myself away before I went and did the entire turn, but I was 15 minutes late leaving the house.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 21, 2017, 03:38:27 am
I'm raiding my land, others are raiding it, everyone is raiding it. Maybe I should start some more wars so there are more armys around to block each other ; ) I have come to enjoy my death-waste-land.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 21, 2017, 07:49:25 am
Hmm, one battle that went way better than expected... and one that went a little worse - I suppose it all evens out in the end.

As a side note, that's one of the reasons why it's usually a good idea to keep your commanders out of the front lines - especially if they're the only commander on the field.

edit: For what it's worth, on commanders who don't have a ranged attack/spells and who I don't want to fight, I set their actions to (hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)Stay behind troops.

Follow-up hint related to the above: you can copy-paste orders. Highlight the orders you want to copy, hit ctrl-1, then hit 1 to paste. Lifesaver when you want a bunch of mages to all follow the same script.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: a1s on April 21, 2017, 03:37:02 pm
Wait, you expected that to go better? I though that was a probing force  :-\
The Kathan of modern day seems to be a pale shadow of the Kathan I knew...

P.S. still selling gems for laughably small sums of gold.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub found)
Post by: AlStar on April 23, 2017, 09:09:19 pm
Wait, you expected that to go better? I though that was a probing force  :-\
In my defense, I had no idea how many mages you had sitting there, and if they'd had a chance to summon anything - given the throwing-my-hands-up-in-the-air-and-walking-off bit your sub did, it was pretty much impossible to guess. It was a long shot, and in hindsight I obviously would've waited for reinforcements, but... *shrug*

In other news, in case anyone was curious: E9 Earth Serpents, deep in their own domain, with awe 3, suck. That is all.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: a1s on April 23, 2017, 09:57:07 pm
Wait, you expected that to go better? I though that was a probing force  :-\
In my defense, I had no idea how many mages you had sitting there, and if they'd had a chance to summon anything - given the throwing-my-hands-up-in-the-air-and-walking-off bit your sub did, it was pretty much impossible to guess.
Well, on the bright side, you're about to crush my aquatic force. Hopefully feeding you those mermen will free up some upkeep.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 24, 2017, 03:58:29 am
Also, not sure if it's a bug, but my Captain unit (the drake rider) loses his fire breath ability when equipping a weapon or shield in one of the slots. It seems like a bug, as the Fire Breath should be used by my mount instead of my rider.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: E. Albright on April 24, 2017, 12:10:49 pm
Pretty sure that's an engine bug. There's always been some weirdness about how built-in weapons interact with equipped ones. My favorite was the brief period when giving illithids a Pebble Pouch (in a certain way) would let them throw boulders with the range and accuracy of their mind blasts...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: a1s on April 26, 2017, 01:52:00 am
That went well. (The only thing sadder than seeing a Illithid lose a mind blast battle is seeing one do a bayonet charge on a mercury demon. Alone. In a robe.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: AlStar on April 28, 2017, 07:47:25 am
I'll admit, if we'd taken bets on "which global will be first cast" I would not have picked Burden of Time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 28, 2017, 10:02:36 am
Its mostly a "well I at least did something before I perish" act then anything of tactical value. Investing those gems into summons might have been smarter, but not as entertaining.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 29, 2017, 05:24:43 pm
I think I've missed so many turns in a row that I can no longer tell myself 'Don't worry. You can do the next turn when you feel better'.

Sorry about being such a piece of shit guys, but I need to drop out of the game. It's obvious that I'm not going to suddenly turn things around and start submitting things regularly. Better to drop me off so I don't drag the speed down anymore than I have. Sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: AlStar on April 29, 2017, 06:27:07 pm
Well, pick up a turn and go AI then - unless you feel that you've still got a nation worth subbing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: E. Albright on April 30, 2017, 05:22:06 pm
Agreed - if your nation isn't viable (and number of stales do kinda point that way) it would be best if you could log one turn to go AI. I can find and swap someone in to throw the switch, but it would be a lot less messy if you could do it yourself.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: RexMundi on May 02, 2017, 05:18:10 pm
So burden of time. If my dom4-fu is up to snuff which I doubt, dispel is the spell needed to remove it, and that is astral three? Anyone else not playing someone who lives for a long time like me?

EDIT: I'll just come out and mention I've been stocking pearls all game. Anyone wanna take bets on if I can do it on my own? How many death gems could he have poured into it?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: a1s on May 02, 2017, 05:46:58 pm
I see there's been a 3 hour stealthpush. Let's hope it was enough.  :-\
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: AlStar on May 02, 2017, 06:11:21 pm
With just a couple of hours left, I noticed that I didn't actually remember playing my turn.  :-[ It turned out that I actually had... but apparently I'd had enough to drink before doing so that I remember nothing about what happened.  :o

Decided it might be in my best interest to give it a quick once-over - turns out it actually wasn't too bad. Made a couple small changes, but I think I could've survived if the forgotten turn had gone through.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: E. Albright on May 02, 2017, 06:22:34 pm
Okay, I'm gonna push things at least a day. Following a look-see by an uninvolved third party, the suggestion has been made that Tsihor is still viable, albeit a fixer-upper. So we are looking for a sub, preferably one who is at least moderately experienced, as Tsihor was described as having a lot of resources but also needing some finesse to take advantage of them...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (churn, churn, churn)
Post by: Mini on May 03, 2017, 02:23:40 am
So burden of time. If my dom4-fu is up to snuff which I doubt, dispel is the spell needed to remove it,
Alternatively, cast at least 5 (actual number depends on RNG of which one gets replaced, could technically be nigh infinite) other globals. Dispel indeed is the intended way to remove a specific global.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 04, 2017, 09:43:14 am
Sorry for stalling,  I keep postponing when I have time to do this until I run out of time to do it. A short summary for most things in my life though :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: AlStar on May 05, 2017, 01:49:16 pm
So, any luck in getting a replacement? I bumped the main Dom 4 topic, but it looks like it's fallen down to the second page again. If all else fails, I can see if a couple people I know on my Steam Friends list might be interested... but I warn that they're both known for occasional bouts of flakiness.

Otherwise, maybe let the AI give it its best?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: E. Albright on May 05, 2017, 02:37:15 pm
I'll push for another day if you think you might be able to get a replacement - I've had no luck.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: E. Albright on May 06, 2017, 03:08:24 pm
All right. Unless we have a sub in the next day (one more 30h push has been executed), we'll get to see how poorly the AI handles Tsihor's presumably-still-viable situation.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: AlStar on May 06, 2017, 04:36:43 pm
All right. Unless we have a sub in the next day (one more 30h push has been executed), we'll get to see how poorly the AI handles Tsihor's presumably-still-viable situation.
I asked my friend, and he thought about it, but decided to back out due to lack of free time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: E. Albright on May 07, 2017, 11:08:58 am
All right, my arrangements to AI Tsihor have gone through, so I have forced hosting to eliminate the remaining delay and give us a weekend day to get back into playing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 08, 2017, 06:46:03 am
Do I get some sort of price for being really annoying to kill? I work hard to be "really not worth it" this game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: E. Albright on May 08, 2017, 10:06:08 am
Speaking for myself, a lot of why I can't kill you comes down to magic paths. As you've seen time and again, I have a spectacularly bad set of spells available to me to deal with the particular obnoxiousness that you're pursuing, and there's no way to deal with it except spells, so...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (sub needed)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 08, 2017, 06:11:45 pm
I don't think "Banishment" is a very exclusive spell, seeing how all I (can) use are undead chaff and up-keep free undead kings.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 08, 2017, 07:03:18 pm
Banishment doesn't scale up fast enough nor with sufficient range to deal with your "back row spitting out 15-25 longdead every turn for 50 turns (plus 20-40 vinemen at the start)" tactics. It works well when you make the mistake of only deploying 5 or 8 skellispammers, but 2-3x that many pushes into critical mass - and Banishment will perforce target masses of HP rather than the sources of the problem. Same (but worse) with Cleansing Water or Wither Bones. I need something like Firestorm, Acid Storm, Earthquake, RoS, or Wrathful Skies, and of those the last is the only I come near being able to deploy (but only near). Perhaps Devouring Swarm or Howl, but that's another path I lack. And ofc Soul Slay or mindblasters would shred you, but those are yet more options outside my grasp.

It's frustrating, because there's a lot of ways in which what I've been beating my head into for the last 30 turns or so is a disproportionately vulnerable and expensive setup - but at the same time, most every soft counter I have available is easily mitigated, and the hard counters are path-locked to my nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 11, 2017, 11:47:24 am
I'm setting myself to AI. Don't think I'll be able to do much anymore plus I had two stales in a row. Still was my longest Dominions round ever without being eliminated, so that's a win!
Thanks for the game guys and sorry for the amount of stales
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on May 11, 2017, 08:16:44 pm
I'm setting myself to AI. Don't think I'll be able to do much anymore plus I had two stales in a row. Still was my longest Dominions round ever without being eliminated, so that's a win!
Thanks for the game guys and sorry for the amount of stales
Curious - where were all of your mages? All I ever saw were drake knights and captains.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 12, 2017, 03:48:36 am
Aha Tzicapan joins the party, at least I have the honor of being assaulted by half the players in the game (If Thespinth breaks its contract again, I can even add " at the same time "). I'm gonna fold and give everything to our new green overlords without resistance.

PS: Your standing on a disease site.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 12, 2017, 10:29:38 am
I'm setting myself to AI. Don't think I'll be able to do much anymore plus I had two stales in a row. Still was my longest Dominions round ever without being eliminated, so that's a win!
Thanks for the game guys and sorry for the amount of stales
Curious - where were all of your mages? All I ever saw were drake knights and captains.

I noticed during some AI games that my mages were pretty expensive and weak, so I decided to try a non-magic nation with some research going to construction. Works well until someone starts using magic :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on May 12, 2017, 11:07:59 pm
Hmm, interesting choice... although I'm not sure I'd agree with your conclusions. Your Masters of the Starfire Truth have great communion possibilities with both astral and blood, in addition to good paths for blood summoning.

I'd say the only major problem is that if you decide to really pursue blood you don't have any really good blood hunters - you've either got to use Masters (at a staggering 280 gold each), or you're counting on the 25% + 2.5% chance of a Blood Consort (who are also expensive at 175 gold.)

I really love reanimate archers, which you can cast with the 27.5% of your Vampiric Consorts or Masters who happen to get additional Death paths.

You also have easy access to Magma Bolts and Magma Eruption, which are strong evocations.

I mean, don't get me wrong, your drake knights are pretty awesome units... right up until someone decides to bring something with fire resistance against them - it's just not sustainable into the mid-late game. I would've started with them, since they'd certainly take care of any indies without a second thought, but would've looked towards blood and/or communions.

Edit: Hey - it looks like everyone who's left hasn't had a stale in the last 5 turns - we might actually have some turns that take less than the max turn time!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 16, 2017, 08:56:21 am
Eh, we try.

So how is the rest of the world doing? Any nations even bigger then E. Albright around?

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 16, 2017, 09:07:54 am
All of them. Seriously, I'm tiny. You and I are about the same size, and about the same global significance. I.e., none. We've spent the game fighting a petty, meaningless war over a ruined wasteland while everyone else fights over the actual world.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: RexMundi on May 16, 2017, 11:32:50 am
Fucking frogs man. I forget who you are to my east but my money is on them for conquering the surface world
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 16, 2017, 08:31:09 pm
Empty's blob of 400 shamblers my scouts saw a turn or two ago did look pretty unpleasant, even if I account for potential scout report inflation.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 19, 2017, 02:37:38 am
I don't get why you guys keep marching at me when there are perfectly empty thrones with 50 indi-militia defending it in your own territory, I do nothing but spam earthquake at any army bigger then 50 guys and undead at any smaller then 50.

Someone tried to capture a castle with nothing but 200 Archers and 0 melee guys. It didn't work.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on May 19, 2017, 07:21:35 am
(re: earthquakes) That'll work... at least till someone brings along an army that flies (or floats, although I think only a handful of units do that.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 19, 2017, 09:11:10 am
The other option with Earthquake is to bring an army of things that can probably survive more Earthquakes than the casting mages can. Otherwise, yes, it's a reasonable tactic until/unless your opponent can reliably trot out army-wide protective spells or Mass Flight.

(NG adds a few more floaters than just what is in the base game, but they're still pretty scarce.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 19, 2017, 10:06:21 am
Thankfully my mage also flies.

Overall the Mages I have are great, really - high death,  high earth, sometimes air - sadly I pay for it with horrible troops.

To break out of my situation I would need enough income to get some troops going or enough gem income to do more then pay for battlefield spells.

Quite the opposite of other players, I might just have more Mages/commanders/undead Kings then I have normal troops.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on May 19, 2017, 12:00:39 pm
I don't get why you guys keep marching at me when there are perfectly empty thrones with 50 indi-militia defending it in your own territory, I do nothing but spam earthquake at any army bigger then 50 guys and undead at any smaller then 50.

Someone tried to capture a castle with nothing but 200 Archers and 0 melee guys. It didn't work.

That was me.
I thought I had all my forces grouped.
But it seems my archers weren't.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on May 19, 2017, 01:14:31 pm
Ah, one of the greatest threats to a pretender god, followed closely by stealth commanders/armies who decide to sit around and watch while the rest of the army they're grouped with gets slaughtered.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Cthulhu on May 22, 2017, 01:37:20 am
You forgot communion masters going off-script and spamming blink.

Also that moment of horror when you realize that wasn't deer tribe you sent your lone pretender into.

When your thrice-horned boar casts earthquake and you find out self-damage still berserks.

Also I'm back, baby.  I started game 1, and I'll finish game 27.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 24, 2017, 08:36:38 am
If you leave me alone I will focus on making life hell for the green frogs instead E. Albright - these lands shall never be worth the blood shed on it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 25, 2017, 11:51:03 am
And miss out on the chance to drive the snake from the islands into the void again? Where's the fun in that?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on May 25, 2017, 08:18:57 pm
Man, Tsihor's Divine Avengers are downright terrifying. How is it that they don't control the entire aboveground?

Also, why the heck did they decide to go without a blessing? A major nature, death, or fire blessing would have made them even more insane.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: RexMundi on May 25, 2017, 08:49:52 pm
I don't know what is going on but tishor isn't dead. (or whatever the spelling for my guys are.)
Or maybe we are, idk. Anyway I've been without pc for a good couple days now and earliest I'll have mine working again is late tomorrow. I'm unsure how many turns I've missed now but Don't hold on account of me as I'm sure it's not like I could swing anything major right now anyway.
Anyway tomorrow I'll have a working pc, or at the least I'll be where blitze is so I can borrow his to turn in a turn.

EDIT: Wait', I'm thespinth wasn't it? am I confusing names without the game to look at? I'm the second on the turn waiting list anyway..
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on May 25, 2017, 11:51:10 pm
Tsihor was USEC's nation that we couldn't get a sub for, which should explain why they don't rule the overworld. What atrocities they're doling out now are strictly the flailings of a lobotomized godling.

I have no idea why they're without a major bless. I'd have thrown N9 on them without even thinking.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 01, 2017, 07:37:08 am
Thespinth has staled their last 5 turns - is there something we should be doing about that?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: a1s on June 01, 2017, 12:50:12 pm
I'm not really back.
But I would like someone to tell me if the banner of abolitionist Illithids yet waves? And the story of why not.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: RexMundi on June 01, 2017, 12:52:19 pm
I ask the same question for thespinth. It took a bit longer than planned to get my pc running again, plus real life crap, but I return.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 01, 2017, 03:38:50 pm
Amazons are still alive. Illithids are not. Frogs and newts are everywhere.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 02, 2017, 03:13:41 pm
I think I found a bug.
I've got a shape shifting unit that lacks certain slots in the shaped shifted form.
If I equip cursed items I can remove them by shape shifting to that form if that form lacks the slot.
They go right back to my inventory.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: RexMundi on June 02, 2017, 03:31:05 pm
Can't wear a cursed ring with no fingers, can't lift a cursed sword with no hands. Funny, but likely bug or otherwise unintended
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 05, 2017, 10:50:15 am
The Army of Empty (The green frog guys in the north part of the map) are both traped and close to dieing horribly, so if anyone wants to take some easy territories, now is the time : )
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 05, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
The Army of Empty (The green frog guys in the north part of the map) are both traped and close to dieing horribly, so if anyone wants to take some easy territories, now is the time : )

Don't count your skeletons before you raise them.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 06, 2017, 02:08:14 am
With my fatigue neutral bless they are uncountable! (well round limit, but that, too can be messed with)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 06, 2017, 07:00:33 pm
What luck.
Your curses of stones hit half of my casters. And mine hit some of your vinemen.
My 15 morale troops routed on the second turn.

Crikey :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 06, 2017, 07:29:10 pm
Also, with Thespinth AI, "And then there were five". I think I'm the most lackadaisical remaining player (roughly half the time, anyway) so I shall endeavor to find ways to avoid delays so things can maybe reach a conclusion sooner and we can find out which kind of amphibian (or maybe lizard) shall lord over all the rest of us.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 07, 2017, 02:33:27 am
No army of "normal troops" can stand against such a combination of global spells with any kind of buffer - also, your troops "only" have darkvision 50, which leaves em "half as skilled as a undead skeleton" while the archers just don't have any.

What spells would you have cast, besides cleansing water? It has limited range, so you would have never hit anything besides free/fresh chaff and your troops are just in block formation with nothing in on the flanks to actually break through?

Suggestions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The large size of your troops and outnumbering me massivly in every area .... can be a disadvantage. Try to use your advantages - I lose troops every round to upkeep and you barly even lost 3 mages - nothing important.

You are the 4th snake on my heel and frankly, its really not worth it. Cards on the table, my total income is 180 - you lose more troops in every single fight then you could gain here.

Well Thespinth AI is going at me again hard, so maybe you're lucky.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 07, 2017, 09:46:54 am
No army of "normal troops" can stand against such a combination of global spells with any kind of buffer - also, your troops "only" have darkvision 50, which leaves em "half as skilled as a undead skeleton" while the archers just don't have any.
That reminds me, I never did get around to checking if the 150 darkvision I've got on some of my troops was working as expected.

Cards on the table, my total income is 180 - you lose more troops in every single fight then you could gain here.
I must say that the fact that you still exist at all, working with so little against so many enemies, really shows some masterful play - I wish I had more scouts in the area to watch your fights.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 07, 2017, 01:32:26 pm
Uku has poor gold income, but quite nice gem income, and they've used that to very good effect. Also, for most of the game the people they're been fighting has pretty much been me, so having scouts around to watch would be tedious - as mentioned upthread, I have paths that don't lend themselves to overcoming Uku's 1.5 trick miniature horse (not a pony, mind, because it's not so puny; it's just limited in scope). The way to deal with what Uku has on offer hasn't changed, and they remain "use magic that ignores or circumvents the nigh-endless hordes of skeletons they're throwing at you" (and/or "overwhelm them with fliers on turn 1" if they're attacking rather than defending). If I had had the paths for it, they would have had a much more difficult time still being alive (just as them having the ability to field a static army that I couldn't kill off despite not being able to overcome their skellispam would have made my life much more fraught). Firestorm, Flame Storm, Acid Storm, Wrathful Skies, Rain of Stones, Howl, possibly Devouring Swarm, if you could get the range right maybe Cascade spam, Soul Slay or any other "ignores mindless" spells... there's a lot of options that I didn't have the paths to field...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 07, 2017, 04:07:30 pm
If I had had the paths for it, they would have had a much more difficult time still being alive...
I kept asking myself "what the heck paths does Albright have that he can't cast anything?" Major Blood/Minor Water. Interesting.

Maybe you should've played the same game - give a bunch of your commanders imp contracts - see how the skelespam deals with imp spam.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 08, 2017, 04:38:28 am
Aww thanks guys, so sweet.

Blood? Summon Imps could do something then ~

Most amusing to me is that 3 seperate nations tried to use assassins against me - when all I have on every command is skelli-spam... they all went about as expected. The AI is now doing it again, but it really doesn't know any better.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 08, 2017, 10:49:31 am
Aww thanks guys, so sweet.

I didn't really say anything I hadn't said before. ;p

It's possible that 10 or 15 commanders with Lifelong Protection could succeed where a few B3s with Summon Imps did not, but that's a pretty huge gamble in terms of slaves and B4 mage-turns for something I'd be struggling to keep from rushing into melee against skellispam hordes. Unless I doubled down and used my almost-non-existent death paths and income to try to give them all spamulets, too.

If you're counting me in re: assassins, I wasn't fighting anyone else at the time, had the Master Assassin on retainer, gave him a skellispamulet looted from your armies, and was actually hoping to hit one of the commanders in an army that didn't have its own amulet (and/or just have the RNG bless me by letting me win against a spamulet-wearer in an almost-fair fight). So from where I stand that was a reasonable, albeit ill-fated, move.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 08, 2017, 11:36:13 am
I'm sorry work has got me swamped the last few days.
Could I perhaps get an extention of a day?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 08, 2017, 11:50:14 am
Pushed 24h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 09, 2017, 02:54:29 pm
Oh my. Thespinth has a woman riding a giant skeleton hero.

Bad to the bone!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 10, 2017, 04:07:20 am
Thespinth also has a Prophet-assassin trying to kill my stuff. Sadly, being in my capital gave him -8 (of his 10) hp and he died instantly. AI trying its best, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 13, 2017, 08:05:39 pm
In the continuing thread of "how is it that Tsihor didn't conquer the world (while still under human control)?" - they started next to a library, a swamp with lizard shamen, and a sages guild - although they never searched that last one out, presumably because they were content with the other recruitable mages that were also available there. ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 14, 2017, 12:59:47 am
Okay, that's just not fair.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 19, 2017, 07:06:25 am
Surprisingly, this is the first time that this has happened, despite the fact that I use my mounted commanders fairly often:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mtr0w7xyi1ko8vq/cow.jpg)
That's right, bitches: Commander Cave Cow.

Bow down in fear.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 19, 2017, 04:30:52 pm
The new patch shouldn't impact anything as far as stability goes.

Foulspawn (and probably illithid hybrids) should be getting randomized PD soon because of it, though, hehehe...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 20, 2017, 07:47:22 am
By the way, I hope you all had scouts at Tsihor so you could watch the "fun" of me wasting thousands of gold worth of troops repeatedly banging my head against a wall - it was a great instructive course on how persistence and not ever trying new tactics can overcome everything, given enough time.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 20, 2017, 05:18:55 pm
I hate to do this but I need one more day.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 20, 2017, 06:48:53 pm
Done.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 21, 2017, 08:05:53 pm
*Equips magic eye to a Sea Shugenja*
*Notes that precision has bottomed out*
*Looks at wounds, sees "lost his only eye"*
Well then, it appears that my Olm-folk only have one eye, and that replacing that eye has some rather negative effects - who knew?

Edit: As long as I'm posting, I might as well include a gripe - seriously guys? You see just PD, which consists of an entire 2 guys, and you decide that it's time to break out the 5 gem spell? Really? You don't think that maybe - just maybe - you could've handled this on your own?
*sigh*
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 21, 2017, 08:42:08 pm
Yup, all pale ones have 1 eye, and olmspawns take after their mums, so...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 22, 2017, 03:37:34 am
So do we want to stop all our squabbles and focus on the player that owns half the map? I don't mind much eitherway, but someone has to suggest it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 23, 2017, 06:53:18 pm
Why is my territory the "it" vacation spot for everyone's scouts and assassins?!?!? There's nothing interesting to see here, even if you ignore my national troops being glamorous...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 23, 2017, 07:27:07 pm
Why is my territory the "it" vacation spot for everyone's scouts and assassins?!?!? There's nothing interesting to see here, even if you ignore my national troops being glamorous...
It's more that we're late enough in the game that I (at least) have got scouts on (nearly) every single province - you're not being singled out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 25, 2017, 04:46:36 pm
So at the risk of seeming like a severely ditzy airhead, I seem to have forgotten that my traveling sans laptop from the 27th through the 5th has repercussions for all y'all.

How do we want to handle this? I'm something of a bit player, so if the consensus is the show must go on, I am willing to go AI (and hand off the admin PW), though I'd rather not. Otherwise, it's gonna be a week-long hiatus starting next turn at the latest (for simplicity's sake, if we do go with a delay, I'd ask everyone try to get their turns in early if possible so as to ease my setting up the pause - I'm not incommunicado until Wednesday, but I'd rather just leave my phone at home and start being incommunicado a day early).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 25, 2017, 05:10:15 pm
Actually I wouldn't mind a delay. Work has been hectic the last couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 25, 2017, 10:24:14 pm
I must say, I thought that Manifestation would be a risky move, but more because I thought that it wouldn't be able to kill the imps or because it'd decide to turn on my caster; not because my ashen angel would get picked off by Dust to Dust.  :-\

In other news, three cheers to Herminius the Scout, the man who defeated a water elemental with naught but his starting equipment! (Admittedly, a pretty tiny water elemental - but even so!)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 26, 2017, 06:49:38 am
70 turns of nothing, then suddenly Eater of the Gods : /
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 26, 2017, 07:49:29 am
Mwahahaha! They said I was mad - mad! - when they saw what I'd done! I told them they'd rue the day, but oh, did they believe me? Fools, all of them fools!

(Needless to say, I suddenly feel unreasonably vindicated for sacrificing that very-useful mercenary mage...)

(And the best/worst part is, 4/6 of its attacks add more horror marks, so the longer it takes to kill you, the more likely you'll be to see it again...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 27, 2017, 12:48:45 pm
Right, 3h to host with 2 players out, and I'm less than 24h from getting on a plane and need to shut my rotten computer off and finish getting ready. Pushed 240h, new hosting time ~2100 GMT 7 July. See yinz after the 5th...

[Quickhost is off, BTW.]
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on June 27, 2017, 05:09:00 pm
Welp I staled.
I must apolagize for my tardiness lately.
As I've mentioned before my work has taken on most of my life lately.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on June 27, 2017, 05:27:05 pm
How on Earth did you stale?!?!? The turn wasn't supposed to host for 10 days. I am thoroughly confused. Also, resetting next hosting to the 7th, making sure quickhost is off, and then getting off my computer to finish packing if I have to tape all my fingers together to do it...

Okay, quickhost is definitely off, and both the game page and admin log show a 192h delay to hosting. Interestingly, it doesn't show the prior change, so maybe the server hickupped? Quickhost WAS off though, so I'm just confused. Anyway. Going. I'll send AlStar the admin PW just in case some nonsense like this happens again.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on June 28, 2017, 07:52:15 am
Welp I staled.
I must apolagize for my tardiness lately.
As I've mentioned before my work has taken on most of my life lately.
I'm not going to say that this was the worst turn you could have staled, but it was pretty damn bad.

(Any turn is not good, but one where you're at war is worse, and one where you're in the middle of fighting using guerrilla tactics and there's an enemy host bearing down on your capital...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 06, 2017, 12:54:59 pm
Just a reminder, game on, and a turn is due in ~27h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 07, 2017, 04:20:53 pm
I don't know what happened but I had a few units on break siege.
But it did nothing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 07, 2017, 05:06:30 pm
I don't know what happened but I had a few units on break siege.
But it did nothing.
If you're talking about your capital; the vampires, at very least, definitely came out to play. If there were supposed to be others, then I've got no idea.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 07, 2017, 05:12:34 pm
Had 3 vampires to break siege. And one from another province drop by as well. Seems the break siege got cancled by the normal moving one.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 09, 2017, 04:38:18 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 09, 2017, 05:23:34 pm
That was certainly more entertaining to watch than last turn's battle in Tzicapa.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 09, 2017, 06:34:10 pm
:D
It's my own fault - I'd gotten so used to just steamrolling over your troops that I didn't even bother to refill the gems on my mages or send in a scout first to see what I was going up against.

It's also the first time I've ever seen Vafur Flames in action. Nasty.

Did you get any goodies? I don't think there were any artifacts in that army, but there should be plenty of earth boots, water rings, plus whatever was on the King.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 10, 2017, 11:42:18 am
I think I got most of it.

You got lucky. I thought hellpower would generate way more and powerfull horrors.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 11, 2017, 06:53:57 pm
Hmm, that was underwhelming - do I have the turn order for when murdering winter's effect hits wrong, or did it actually hit your 300-400-strong doomstack for 2 kills?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Mini on July 11, 2017, 07:52:58 pm
It hit my army for 2 kills.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 11, 2017, 08:08:15 pm
Wow, not a great investment for the gems then - I thought for sure with two wolven winters before it, it'd be at least a little more impressive.

I guess it'd be better against a human-HP army.

edit: Those heavy lizard swordsmen, backed by your fire mages are crazy. I thought for sure my storm/thunderbolt swarm would take you out, but I ran out of troops before my mages could recover from their first volley!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 15, 2017, 08:42:01 pm
Well, that's not unexpected, but it certainly is annoying. And yes, it's annoying even after the RNG tried to take the edge off the irritation of the Hunt with 3.5kg, 22 gems, and a magic item.

(Why does the RNG always wait until turn 80 or so before it starts throwing that sort of thing around in MP? I see those events early all the time in SP, but MP? Noooooooo...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 17, 2017, 06:52:42 am
I'm growing strong on the AI players lands - we shall rise from the ashes and dominate the hall of fame with 0 kill Commanders ...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 17, 2017, 09:05:28 am
Pushing 12h because I'm still not going to have time to finalize my turn until later.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 17, 2017, 06:18:47 pm
Argh, pushed 24h because I'm not currently mentally capable of finishing my turn. Tomorrow it'll be done if I have to stale to do it, though. Sorry, all.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 18, 2017, 03:21:50 pm
Added bonus: quickhost is back on!

*hangs head in shame*
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 20, 2017, 05:55:34 pm
Well, unless y'all have something sneaky hidden up your sleeves, I believe that's game.

Certainly made me work for it at the end there.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 20, 2017, 06:58:28 pm
Ha, didn't realize how close things were to being done. I'm glad to have made it to the end intact given how little experience I have with 1) vanir, and 2) blood nations. Yes, really. Those are two of my least favorite things, and the RNG gave me both...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 22, 2017, 06:07:21 am
I only hope I was enough of an irritant in the end.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 22, 2017, 10:54:36 am
...the sad thing is that if you hadn't mentioned your impending victory, you would have won... now we're all doomed to have things drag on a few more turns...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 22, 2017, 11:26:55 am
I forted up the two thrones that I expected to get attacked this turn (neither of which, of course, was attacked.) I'll admit, having an oracle drop on my head alongside a bunch of carp-wielding madmen was unexpected.

I think the most annoying part is that I won that fight, but your god couldn't flee.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 23, 2017, 04:13:38 pm
I'm sorry but I'll be needing at the least an 8 hour extension.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 23, 2017, 05:49:29 pm
Done.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 25, 2017, 12:18:32 am
You are all dragging this out - I won't claim that my victory is preordained or anything, but any one of you has an awfully long way to go to victory, while I need such a small, small step.

Edit: By the way, did you get to keep that dire wolf you charmed?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 26, 2017, 08:24:18 am
Dragging out my own dead is all I'm doing (in both rounds) ; )
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 26, 2017, 11:21:18 am
In re puppies: no, those counted as temp-summoned critters, so they evaporated. No puppy mill for me. :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 26, 2017, 06:04:00 pm
...Shift-click to move. Shift.

Also, I doubt you could have hand-picked better earth attack targets than the ones the RNG gave you...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 28, 2017, 07:40:56 pm
I feel like Wildheart may have gone just a little gem-crazy in killing that tiny water elemental, although given the shit he's wearing, I suppose it's better than him getting killed.

In other news, I'm pretty sure that my Tartarian just killed more Sessian mages by himself than all my armies together have managed thus far.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Mini on July 28, 2017, 10:04:38 pm
Not a difficult feat, considering the prior total was 2.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 29, 2017, 08:44:04 pm
Not a difficult feat, considering the prior total was 2.
Yes, yes - give me my moment. My battles against you have gone overwhelmingly against me. It's nice to see that I don't necessarily need both lords of fire on the battlefield to beat you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 29, 2017, 11:44:41 pm
Not a difficult feat, considering the prior total was 2.
Yes, yes - give me my moment. My battles against you have gone overwhelmingly against me. It's nice to see that I don't necessarily need both lords of fire on the battlefield to beat you.

Oh you got 3 of those? I remember killing one of those. Hmm. Are those resummonable by the way?
Also for what it's worth it. Vampire lords aren't as great as you'd think they would be. For all their immortality I seem to be missing a few.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on July 29, 2017, 11:48:06 pm
Not a difficult feat, considering the prior total was 2.
Yes, yes - give me my moment. My battles against you have gone overwhelmingly against me. It's nice to see that I don't necessarily need both lords of fire on the battlefield to beat you.

Oh you got 3 of those? I remember killing one of those. Hmm. Are those resummonable by the way?
Also for what it's worth it. Vampire lords aren't as great as you'd think they would be. For all their immortality I seem to be missing a few.
Yes, you can re-summon them. And your Vampires only come back in your own domain - that's why I had three or four priests praying around the clock before the big battle. I might have lost that throne, but it filled me with glee to kill off nearly all of your damn vampires.

Edit: You know, as much as I would've liked to win however many turns ago; I must say that I'm enjoying playing around with all this high-level shit: Tartarians wearing artifacts and such - it's fun!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 31, 2017, 06:22:07 am
You should win the siege on the Throne soon, so there is a possible endpoint there.

What Global did my Burden of Time push out btw?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on July 31, 2017, 11:42:27 am
You should win the siege on the Throne soon, so there is a possible endpoint there.

What Global did my Burden of Time push out btw?

My earth gem generator. Humbug.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on July 31, 2017, 12:49:19 pm
IOW, the only non-toxic one left...

Edit: You know, as much as I would've liked to win however many turns ago; I must say that I'm enjoying playing around with all this high-level shit: Tartarians wearing artifacts and such - it's fun!

I suspect a lot more games would reach lategame if people were willing to pointlessly and stubbornly hold on 'til the end instead of sensibly deciding they have something better to do with the hour or so per week it takes to spitefully dig in your heels.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 01, 2017, 02:28:11 am
But only by digging in our heels all silly like we get beautys like this mage without a head...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

... and without magic.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 01, 2017, 08:08:09 am
Well, at least it still has one of its eyes.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 01, 2017, 08:53:20 am
Well, at least it still has one of its eyes.
I noticed that too. Surprising, since I thought that "lost the head" was pretty much hardcoded to come with "blind".
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 01, 2017, 11:22:01 am
I think cause it lost its eye first and then the other things happend.

It's real strong thou...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 01, 2017, 11:54:36 am
I think cause it lost its eye first and then the other things happend.

It's real strong thou...
You could do worse for a mini-thug. Just equip it with whatever junk you've accumulated over ~90 turns and turn it loose. Who knows - it might even get some kills.

Edit: I won the battle I thought I'd lose, and lost the one I thought I'd win.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 02, 2017, 03:48:49 am
Well I can save the cost of a helmet for him at least... ; )

I really could have saved the darkness cast vs your pale ones, but hey whatever.

You certainly only lost by moral damage, I assume you where low on gems since really no battlefield-spells showed up? It's easy to underestimate the skull-talisman army, as it seems small at first.

___

On that note, the thrones I control will both fall very soon (157) and (107), so someone better retake something else.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 02, 2017, 01:42:39 pm
I underestimated how much chaff you'd have blocking the gate - those 60-odd weakling little ghosts of yours did a commendable job keeping me bottled up while you back-filled with skeletons.

I'd assumed that my three SCs (with backup from my mages) would be able to handle the skeletons as they came; but it turned out... not so much. My Queen of Water was killing half a dozen a turn and was making no progress; one of my demon lords was slowly overwhelmed and killed; and the other (the one I had a lot of hope for) never made it through the gate! (and, worse, the monsters from his wondrous artifact all turned tail and fled upon spawning, due to your fear spell.)

That final bit was actually the biggest problem - I assumed that I could count on quality overcoming quantity - I've seen elephants and three-headed dragons come out of that box! Which does not even a little bit of good when they never actually fight.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 02, 2017, 03:51:44 pm
Yeah the last 50ish turns where just endless skeletons failing at killing even one -non-sc- titan. The same attack again would kill me, as would any minor variation of that same fight - quite intresting however : )
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 02, 2017, 04:48:43 pm
Ha, serves me right for waffling about casting Ritual of Returning for T'ker.

So you're at least back to 15 points after that last turn, assuming I don't get it back immediately.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 05, 2017, 10:14:00 pm
Nearly managed to take the fort, even with that BS attack that caused my mages to rain down unholy hell on that single commander of yours (killing rather a lot of themselves in the process.)

On the plus side, it looks like it might not matter. I'm not going to win next turn, but (barring any more hiccups) I should have this done in 2.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 06, 2017, 12:15:55 pm
Context:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, when you get the throne win, I can say I really tried to stop you and you can be certain you earned it.

My caster had "Earth Power, Iron Bane, Retreat"
but due to unlucky AI, AlStar's units cast Falling stones (perfect to kill my undead commanders) and nuked there own army (x2)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on August 07, 2017, 04:45:14 pm
I  haven't been able to get home since the weekend. So could I get an extension for a day?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 07, 2017, 06:27:17 pm
Sure. Last minute (well, when I saw it), but there's still a good half-hour to spare.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 08, 2017, 08:07:35 pm
While saddened that the storming of Talito didn't pan out (although the pre-battle was good fun!) I'm 99% sure that that should do it.

Prove me wrong!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 08, 2017, 08:28:11 pm
I'm personally disappointed the pre-pre-battle was not as much fun as I'd hoped, but there was only a 1/4 chance of maggoty mischief making the pre-battle significantly less lopsided. Alas.

I'm also disappointed that in the early pre-battle the ponies turned back to fight the locusts on the very turn they could have reached your 15hp pretender. And how long she managed to keep dodging near-miss Cleansing Water spouts at 1hp during the storming. Say law vee, je suppose...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 09, 2017, 03:29:51 pm
Which throne provinces fell to Kathan, BTW? Talito did not. The Sodden Mirk did. Any others in play?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 11, 2017, 07:14:32 am
And in the end, all it took was shoving all my +Nature items into the hands of one of my mages, turning 50 astral pearls into nature gems and casting Living Castle just before one of my throne sites was overrun.

Good game all!

Shout-out goes to one of my Kings of Fire, who submitted to astral magic enhancement and wearing that stupid-looking astral beanie in order to forge the +Holy artifacts so I didn't need to rely on Bishop Fish to capture the last throne I needed.

Edit: Overall, I'd sat that Kathan won due to a combination of being ignored until it was too late and sheer averageness. Our mages weren't really exceptional in any one path, and their mix of Air/Water/Earth/Nature, while providing for an amazing diversity of support spells, lacked any really good battlefield punch (with the possible exception of Rain of Stones, which I probably should've used more than I did.) Our troops were cheap and had decent HP and okay armor. One-on-one, they were pretty much universally unable to stand against anything that the rest of you fought with, but my capital was able to build 25 of them a turn, and most of my other fortresses could build between 10-20 of them a turn.

Although we weren't a blood nation, we did have a single hero that started with 2B, and one of our cap-circle provinces had a slave market. That was enough to start slowly trickling out Demon Knights, which would serve me well, especially against the flamethrower cavalry of my subterranean neighbor. Eventually we got enough 10% blood Camazotz that we had enough slaves to start calling in bigger things, but for the first 3/4s of the game it was pretty much just that one hero (and later a blood-enhanced mage) casting Demon Knights on repeat.

I'd designed my pretender to take advantage of one of my scaling national spells, planning on having masses of Shard Wights to help my armies. Unfortunately, even with Camazotz searching far and wide, we never really had enough death gem income to take full advantage (although I had some fun getting 40 or 50 longdead horsemen per cast of the Pale Riders spell, and much, much later, playing with tartarians.)

But yeah, mostly I attribute my win to the fact that none of you overworlders seemed to notice or care that I took over the entire underground, at which point I had a massive economy and a solid defensive position to work from.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: E. Albright on August 11, 2017, 11:41:43 am
Enh, I knew you were getting big, but as long as I was at war with the skellispammers next door, there was nothing I could do to anyone else. That was a war neither of us were in a good position to win; if we hadn't been neighbors things would have been much more chaotic.

You definitely did benefit from me loyally securing two of your borders for most of the game, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: Empty on August 11, 2017, 12:10:16 pm
Things went south for me when I tried to off skullinator to the west because he had cast burden of time. Only later I noticed it was dispelled or something.
I never noticed the one  to the east went ai. Or else I would have  taken more from his provinces.
Skellinator from the west ruined my sea drake summoning strategy as well since his skellyspamming my lakes made me unable to bring the  mages to make lab in one of my forts there.

I had a blood economy up and running. But I made quite a few bad mistakes. Started too late with summoning Counts to hit critical vampire mass. Would have been wiser to spend it on more usefull stuff.
Though my Wrath of the skies was quite annoying for you I suppose.

Good call on summoning that castle.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (in progress)
Post by: AlStar on August 11, 2017, 02:24:13 pm
Though my Wrath of the skies was quite annoying for you I suppose.
During my peak of fighting in your territory/domain, I was having something like 100-125 men hit per turn, and was losing ~20. I was also losing a commander roughly every 3 or 4 turns, and even those that didn't die had plenty of wounds to show for their time spent fighting you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 26: Very Worstestest Things (Done)
Post by: E. Albright on August 11, 2017, 02:49:11 pm
I'll admit my vague mid-to-endgame goal of "Blood sac dominion + yuuuuuge Vengeful Water" would have worked better had I not been plunked down in the "dry wasteland" part of the map. That didn't exactly help with blood hunting, either. Ofc, the big problem was still getting bogged down into a stalemate where I couldn't expand enough to compensate for my Drain scales. In that respect, I'd've been better off ditching W9 and going scales, but hindsight is hindsight.

On the plus side, for all its faults, this map is not absurdly overconnected. That did help the game go as long as it did, even with player attrition lending a hand to snowballing.